# Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments



## T-SaGe

Tensions are rising in the east of Europe. It seems that both the Russian forces and Ukrainian forces are mobilized. After the end of the ceasefire, many clashes were recorded in the Donbas region, where separatist Russian militias were located. Due to growing concerns, NATO forces directed many of its platforms to the region.

The NATO bloc aircrafts constantly patrolling the black sea to support Ukraine and to detect early a possible Russian operation in the direction of Odesa.

There are largely visible military activities from Romania to Poland. Meanwhile, Russia has raised its military buildup on the Ukrainian border to its highest level since 2014.

A great storm is approaching, and the worst-case scenario poses such great risks that it can turn into a tragedy for the whole world.

My wish from the Moderation please make sticky this thread and control it several times a week for a possible troll and spam activities. Let's discuss together the tensest event of 2021 while keeping the thread as clean as possible and not turning it into another troll fest. TY @waz @krash

Current political map of Territory

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Crimea is heavily fortified. It is practically impregnable. Even Nazis had trouble taking Crimea in WW2. It took them years which depleted much of their force deployed in Barbarossa.

Russia lost Crimea war and demilitarized Crimea then afterwards Russia rebuked treaty and rearmed Crimea again.

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## T-SaGe

A new Russian Army camp was set up in the Voronezh region bordering Ukraine













"The commanders set their eyes on a field right next to houses": Russian forces set up camp in Voronezh region bordering Ukraine — Conflict Intelligence Team







citeam.org






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1380210392694145036

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## T-SaGe

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1379935084510347264
Some of the military convoy videos, seen last 2 days
(mostly from Voronezh)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1380133043000782850

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1379839659245772802

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1380075209621958657

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1380103092285407233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1380127931310206981https://twitter.com/i/status/1380208218736111629
Railways
https://twitter.com/i/status/1380215014611636228
https://twitter.com/i/status/1380089455969701892
https://twitter.com/i/status/1379808314947727363
https://twitter.com/i/status/1379835441545940992
https://twitter.com/i/status/1379859152013508617
https://twitter.com/i/status/1379853245603008514
Borisov, Belarus
https://twitter.com/i/status/1379850027036729350

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## obj 705A

IMO the chances of a major war in Ukraine is slim to none, Russia is fine with the status quo, the Ukraine and the US are not idiots..they will not give Russia an excuse to take more lands from Ukraine.
The cause for the recent escalation is probably just because sleepy Joe wants to show that he is a tough guy and not some senile walking corpse, "America is back". So he told the puppets in Kiev to escalate a little before going back to the status quo.
After few days or few weeks things will calm down.
The reason why the Russians are amassing forces at the border is just to dissuade the Ukrainians from going too far.

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## ARMalik

Just a training exercise and nothing more.

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## ZeEa5KPul

I like how all the Westoids who said "Russia's a nobody, its economy is smaller than Italy's, its a has-been, it can't do anything" are now all sh*tting themselves.

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## 8888888888888

Ukraine threaten to join Nato so....


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## casual

obj 705A said:


> IMO the chances of a major war in Ukraine is slim to none, Russia is fine with the status quo, the Ukraine and the US are not idiots..they will not give Russia an excuse to take more lands from Ukraine.
> The cause for the recent escalation is probably just because sleepy Joe wants to show that he is a tough guy and not some senile walking corpse, "America is back". So he told the puppets in Kiev to escalate a little before going back to the status quo.
> After few days or few weeks things will calm down.
> The reason why the Russians are amassing forces at the border is just to dissuade the Ukrainians from going too far.


agree. I don't think Ukraine will start a war they have no hope of winning.


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## python-000

I think its look like a planed from Amrica Europe & israel to start some sort of conflict between Russia & Ukrain...


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## T-SaGe

Russia started to move the landing ships from the Caspian fleet to the Black Sea. Troops in Transnistria are also taken orders for a high level of readiness.





Russia is occupied Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine. It made unilateral state announcements in these countries' territories. Other than that, They demand land from many states, including Kazakhstan. They even express this directly. It directly annexes Crimea, contrary to all international agreements. Now it planning to physically unite Transnistria, Crimea and Donbas, which means that Ukraine will be a landlocked state.






However, for some friends here, Russia has no fault. Are the only culprits are that want to start a war between Ukraine and Russia... How simple it looks from a distance... Some of us thinking that easily resolve who is right and who is wrong. Unfortunately, the political strata and interest struggles in the region are not as flat as you might think.

Ukraine wants its land back and is absolutely not capable of fighting Russia. The Russian army also has the most advanced air defense facilities in the world, as a tradition of a powerful land army. They have the largest mercenary organization in the world. We are talking about a structure with maximum military capabilities in both paramilitary and conventional terms.

Even its own lands, Ukraine cannot stand against Russia militarily. Because while protecting the country's lands, it also needs to be protected more strongly in the international arena. The 2014 experience, led by Germany and France, was a complete flop. The situation is much more critical now and they are the main subject of Russia's land-expanding policies. Therefore, it has to defend its territory by entering into bloc politics. Because Russia, as an occupying country, is also a member of the UNSC. Ukraine naturally considers allying with them Whoever supports Ukraine in this matter. There are many examples of this in history. Both in Pakistani and Turkish history.

TL, DR; If Ukraine is left alone, Russia will have found the political ground to start its borders from Moldova.

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## Muhammed45

Both sevastopol and Crimea are Russian majority lands. They actually belong to Russians. 
Donbass on the other hand is resisting against occupation by NATO affiliated government of Kiev. Their resistance is truly legitimate given the NAZI policies of Kiev on Russian people of donbass. 

Maybe @vostok sir, could shed more light on this subject. Why are Russian ethnics of Ukraine being persecuted and attacked?

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## T-SaGe

A Russian Pantsir system was involved in a traffic accident. There are dead and wounded.


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## denel

Nothing will happen. Putin needs to boost his popularity someway. Plus to get some more funding to the arms manufacturing complexes. He needs to test whether his investments are holding and not getting drunk.

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## vostok

Muhammed45 said:


> Both sevastopol and Crimea are Russian majority lands. They actually belong to Russians.
> Donbass on the other hand is resisting against occupation by NATO affiliated government of Kiev. Their resistance is truly legitimate given the NAZI policies of Kiev on Russian people of donbass.
> 
> Maybe @vostok sir, could shed more light on this subject. Why are Russian ethnics of Ukraine being persecuted and attacked?


Russians are persecuted because Western-Ukrainian neo-Nazi came to power after illegal coup are slaves of the West, as their grandfathers were during Western invasion of USSR in 1941. And Westerners are glad to have bunch of idiots to use them against Russia.
If I remember properly - there was the thread "Civil War in Ukraine" several years ago. How it is turn to be Russo-Ukrainian War? Call to Shoigu immediately, he must know Russia is at war with Ukraine. The man have to make some orders - defensive or offensive.

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## T-SaGe

Russia continues to carry out one of the largest military buildups in its history on the Ukrainian border.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1380588565894160387


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1380496165855244288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1380527815980879878

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1380529863212302337
On the other hand, USA is bringing two warships to the Black Sea. The necessary notification was made to the Turkish side. (Non Black Sea states have to notify 15 days before passing) 2 US warships will enter the Black Sea remain there until May 4





This step of the USA will make the situation even more tense.

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## T-SaGe

Rostov

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1380561573903745025Iskandar TBM TEL, seen near Voronezh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1380202997066702849 near Voronezh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1380531971156283394

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## aziqbal

@T-SaGe my only question is, why would Russia do this military build up? they have Crimea right whats the issue now ?


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## That Guy

aziqbal said:


> @T-SaGe my only question is, why would Russia do this military build up? they have Crimea right whats the issue now ?


I know you're not asking me, but I wanna answer anyway...so I'm gonna.

My guess is a distraction from Navalny. Its not a secret that Navalny is the greatest internal threat to Putin's rule, and even while in prison, he's still managing to put a lot of pressure on Putin.

Putin wants to kill Navalny, whether that be his physical body, or his influence, it doesn't matter, so long as Navalny becomes irrelevant.

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## Stryker1982

T-SaGe said:


> Rostov
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1380561573903745025Iskandar TBM TEL, seen near Voronezh
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1380202997066702849near Voronezh
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1380531971156283394



Ukrainians are really going to need help. Theirs just no way they can compete on conventional land warfare with Russia. Russia is greater in every metric one can think of and no natural land barriers or obstacles they can use to bleed them down.

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## KurtisBrian

on another forum, a guy claiming to be Ukrainian, said the Ukrainians were hiring Syrian mercenaries. + NATO troops in the Ukraine. You sure Russia is the aggressor?

here is a an article. the Ukrainian guy had a twitter link.








Turkish Intelligence Asked Syrian Mercenaries To Prepare To Fight in Ukraine - The Syrian Observer


National Army mercenaries have been mobilized to fight in Ukraine, as tensions rise with Russia, writes ANHA.




syrianobserver.com


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## aziqbal

Stryker1982 said:


> Ukrainians are really going to need help. Theirs just no way they can compete on conventional land warfare with Russia. Russia is greater in every metric one can think of and no natural land barriers or obstacles they can use to bleed them down.



Ukraine never want to fight Russia in open battle no way

even if they had all the equipment in the World the Ukraines just won't

they could have fought hard for Crimea but they just gave up, I remember seeing a entire garrison was loaded to the teeth during first Crimean war and the Ukrainian solders just surrendered even although they could have made a run for it they just gave up

I think most Ukraine will do is go under conventional few "freedom fighters" and send in mercenaries thats about it

something about Ukraine, I think they simply fear Russia to much

I just hope Turkey is not pulled into yet another war

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## T-SaGe

aziqbal said:


> @T-SaGe my only question is, why would Russia do this military build up? they have Crimea right whats the issue now ?



Ukraine has never claimed sovereignty over Russian territory. The problem is that Russia sees the land of many states as its own. Russian State officials openly state that these lands are a gift from Russia and imply that they will take them back under the necessary conditions.

So, there are some possibilities. First of all, Ukraine's stay away from NATO and accepting the de-facto situation in Donbas. Also expected to accepting the occupation of Crimea. But, Considering the size of Russia's current preparation, There is concern that a offensive is planned to connect Crimea and Donbas theatres and even up to Odessa. Indeed, it is unlikely that Ukraine will stop it alone.

However, if you look at the entire map of the Black Sea, the situation is actually more complex. The territory of 3 countries is occupied by Russia.

edit: I will talk about the strategic importance of Odessa later. Such a move is a possibility that will cause NATO to be out of the game in the black sea and produce large enough consequences to reveal the New Russian hegemony. Russia is already holding all the cornerstones it needs in the Black Sea. What it needs is to combine them with the right timing.

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## Stryker1982

aziqbal said:


> Ukraine never want to fight Russia in open battle no way
> 
> even if they had all the equipment in the World the Ukraines just won't
> 
> they could have fought hard for Crimea but they just gave up, I remember seeing a entire garrison was loaded to the teeth during first Crimean war and the Ukrainian solders just surrendered even although they could have made a run for it they just gave up
> 
> I think most Ukraine will do is go under conventional few "freedom fighters" and send in mercenaries thats about it
> 
> something about Ukraine, I think they simply fear Russia to much
> 
> I just hope Turkey is not pulled into yet another war



I think they were so taken by surprise in Crimea they gave it up because they weren't prepared to escalate. 

I don't know my good friend, Ukrainian build up of heavy equipment seems to me they want to make a go for Donbass and Luhansk, and this is Russia's response to it as deterrence. I guess it's up to Ukraine now to either back down from full force and continue the small clashes (status quo) or go for it.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

One thing is sure: Turkey is out of the game for this match! She’s had enough from the Crimean War in the 19th century....

An old enemy is no better than another old enemy....

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## Stryker1982

T-SaGe said:


> Ukraine has never claimed sovereignty over Russian territory. The problem is that Russia sees the land of many states as its own. Russian State officials openly state that these lands are a gift from Russia and imply that they will take them back under the necessary conditions.
> 
> So, there are some possibilities. First of all, Ukraine's stay away from NATO and accepting the de-facto situation in Donbas. Also expected to accepting the occupation of Crimea. But, Considering the size of Russia's current preparation, There is concern that a offensive is planned to connect Crimea and Donbas theatres and even up to Odessa. Indeed, it is unlikely that Ukraine will stop it alone.
> 
> However, if you look at the entire map of the Black Sea, the situation is actually more complex. The territory of 3 countries is occupied by Russia.
> 
> edit: I will talk about the strategic importance of Odessa later. Such a move is a possibility that will cause NATO to be out of the game in the black sea and produce large enough consequences to reveal the New Russian hegemony. Russia is already holding all the cornerstones it needs in the Black Sea. What it needs is to combine them with the right timing.



What would be Turkeys interest in this conflict, I've seen a number of Turkish users mentioning that Turkey could get involved in this. I was curious to see the Turkish perspective and what would the connection be.


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## T-SaGe

Stryker1982 said:


> What would be Turkeys interest in this conflict, I've seen a number of Turkish users mentioning that Turkey could get involved in this. I was curious to see the Turkish perspective and what would the connection be.



For Turkey, both Russia and Ukraine are two indispensable partners. At the expense of developing Turkish-Russian relations, TR had to struggle with the entire atlanticist structure in the last 6-8 years. It has been the subject of numerous sanctions and embargoes. Geopolitics in a wide geography, especially in the Eastern Mediterranean-Levant Axis, has been affected by this developments.

Considering the price still TR has been paying for, to think they would turn their back on Russia, it is really nothing more than ignorance on the subject or lack of awareness about recent regional politics.

However, it is a fact that Turkey is one of the direct addressees of this crisis under all circumstances. Because Armistice of Mudros is the only serious mechanism that keeps the Black Sea away from the influence of foreign countries and is the guarantee of peace in the region. In addition, the Russian and Turkish navies have developed many auxiliary mechanisms in order to support peace in BlackSea recent years, especially BlackSeaFor.

There are two worst-case scenario for Turkey. The first of these, the worst possibility, is a direct confrontation between NATO and Russia. The second possibility is that NATO will leave Ukraine completely alone. In this case, Russia will have the opportunity to build a continuous belt from Sukhum (Abazia) to Tiraspol (Transnistria). This could disrupt the balance in the Black Sea in favor of Russia. This is another issue which is important in terms of the national interests of Turkey and have hundreds of years of history. (This possibility will also negate NATO's Polish and Romanian structurings, but I don't think the Turkish state considers this as a priority issue.)

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## mike2000 is back

T-SaGe said:


> Russia started to move the landing ships from the Caspian fleet to the Black Sea. Troops in Transnistria are also taken orders for a high level of readiness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia is occupied Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine. It made unilateral state announcements in these countries' territories. Other than that, They demand land from many states, including Kazakhstan. They even express this directly. It directly annexes Crimea, contrary to all international agreements. Now it planning to physically unite Transnistria, Crimea and Donbas, which means that Ukraine will be a landlocked state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, for some friends here, Russia has no fault. Are the only culprits are that want to start a war between Ukraine and Russia... How simple it looks from a distance... Some of us thinking that easily resolve who is right and who is wrong. Unfortunately, the political strata and interest struggles in the region are not as flat as you might think.
> 
> Ukraine wants its land back and is absolutely not capable of fighting Russia. The Russian army also has the most advanced air defense facilities in the world, as a tradition of a powerful land army. They have the largest mercenary organization in the world. We are talking about a structure with maximum military capabilities in both paramilitary and conventional terms.
> 
> Even its own lands, Ukraine cannot stand against Russia militarily. Because while protecting the country's lands, it also needs to be protected more strongly in the international arena. The 2014 experience, led by Germany and France, was a complete flop. The situation is much more critical now and they are the main subject of Russia's land-expanding policies. Therefore, it has to defend its territory by entering into bloc politics. Because Russia, as an occupying country, is also a member of the UNSC. Ukraine naturally considers allying with them Whoever supports Ukraine in this matter. There are many examples of this in history. Both in Pakistani and Turkish history.
> 
> TL, DR; If Ukraine is left alone, Russia will have found the political ground to start its borders from Moldova.


Don't mind some users here. They are so drunk on the anti western imperialism drink that they fail to see any other non western power aggressiveness or more like they refuse to see this. Lol. I would have liked their country to be neighbours with Russia for them to understand how aggressive and expansionist Moscow can be 🤣. I will ask them why they think Russia is the largest country by far on earth today? Do they think Russia achieved that by being a peaceful non aggressive country ?🤣🤣. Some people here are so delusional. 
They only have to check Russia's history to understand that Russia is anything but non aggressive. They have carved out, taken and annexed lands from so many country from China to Iran, to Turkey to Ukraine to Finland to balkan states etc etc. People on here don't understand Russia properly. This is a country that has been as aggressive and expansionist as many western powers. If not we should ask them what Russia was doing invading Afghanistan in the 80s as well and threatening to turn Pakistan communist and spreading its influence in the region. 
The only reason Russia has tempered out it's expansionism is because they don't have the same means they had during the Soviet days. If they had the means like the US does today they would be all over the place and be present in even more countries. It's a problem of capabilities for them today not will. Lol

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## T-SaGe

Yuriy Misyagin, Deputy Chairman of the Ukrainian Defense and Intelligence Committee, declared that Bayraktar TB-2s carried out the first observation flight over the Donbass, and a large number of systems belonging to the Russian elements have been identified such PantsirS, S-125, TOR, tanks and howitzers.

Russian army is on the territory of Ukraine. There is no doubt about that. Not only in Crimea, but also in Donbas. As if it weren't enough, the biggest military buildup east of Ukraine borders in recent years is being made.

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## T-SaGe

*Turkish, Ukrainian presidents meet in Istanbul*









RTE reaffirmed Turkey's principled stance of not recognizing the annexation of Crimea. 

Earlier, a meeting between Erdogan and Zelensky at the Huber Mansion started at 3:45 p.m. local time (1245GMT) and lasted for three hours.

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## obj 705A

I believe the recent escalation was solely caused by US/Ukraine, Ukraine wants to reignite the conflict in the east to pressure Germany to cancel Nord stream 2.

*Ukraine will be ‘irreparably weakened’ if Russia & Germany allowed to complete Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline, warns Kiev's deputy PM*

Completing Nord Stream 2 will cost Kiev billions of dollars by ending Russia’s reliance on Ukraine for transporting gas, and therefore must be stopped, according to Aleksey Reznikov, the country’s deputy prime minister.









Ukraine will be ‘irreparably weakened’ if Russia & Germany allowed to complete Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline, warns Kiev's deputy PM


Completing Nord Stream 2 will cost Kiev billions of dollars by ending Russia’s reliance on Ukraine for transporting gas, and therefore must be stopped, according to Aleksey Reznikov, the country’s deputy prime minister.




www.rt.com




________________________________

However Ukraine doesn't want a full scale war with Russia, they want to have a gradually increasing escalation in violence in the east to an extent that would be just enough to convince Germany to drop Nord stream 2 without pushing too far for war else Russia would smash them.
That is why Russia has sent it's forces to the border to send a message to Kiev that the Russians are just on the edge prepared to launch full scale invasion of Ukraine.

*If Ukraine launches a full-scale war in Donbass, Russia will be forced to defend its citizens, says Putin’s deputy chief-of-staff*

Russia will be forced to protect the residents of Donbass if Ukraine launches full-scale hostilities against the region. That’s according to Dmitry Kozak, President Vladimir Putin’s deputy chief of staff, who is himself Ukrainian.
Speaking on Thursday, *Kozak claimed that a ramping-up of the conflict would lead to the end of Ukraine*, with the Kremlin forced to stand up for its citizens living in the territory of Donbass. In recent years, Moscow has made it much simpler for those living in Ukraine to get a Russian passport, and many have taken up the offer.









If Ukraine launches a full-scale war in Donbass, Russia will be forced to defend its citizens, says Putin’s deputy chief-of-staff


Russia will be forced to protect the residents of Donbass if Ukraine launches full-scale hostilities against the region. That’s according to Dmitry Kozak, President Vladimir Putin’s deputy chief of staff, who is himself Ukrainian.




www.rt.com




___________________________

I believe the current escalation in violence will be over once the Ukrainians realize they can't kill Nord stream 2 however it may take a while before they give up on trying to end the project.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Situation has the potential to turn extremely south!!! Russia looks like damn serious. Turkey is mediating to keep the Black Sea from turning into an inferno. Already enforcing the Montreux Pact 100% on the USN. Ukraine, unfortunately, is between the rock and the hard place.....


aziqbal said:


> @T-SaGe my only question is, why would Russia do this military build up? they have Crimea right whats the issue now ?


They want the Imperial Russia back....


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## Xerxes22

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> Situation has the potential to turn extremely south!!! Russia looks like damn serious. Turkey is mediating to keep the Black Sea from turning into an inferno. Already enforcing the Montreux Pact 100% on the USN. Ukraine, unfortunately, is between the rock and the hard place.....
> 
> They want the Imperial Russia back....


Turkey is not mediating for anything other than a Ukrainian war against Russia. I wonder how you feels about Turkey using Syrian headchoppers in multiple countries.
What a nice policy it is to use extremists to execute its foreign agenda. According to Syrian observer, the Turkish Govt is now planning to send Syrian so called "moderate jihadis" to be enlisted in Ukraine. Wow

Erdogan and company are ultimate flip floppers with no clear foreign policy ideology... They will just play on 5-6 different fronts like total amateurs, untill they time when the day of reckoning comes for them

(N.B If any moderator or admin removes my post let them make it clear how they find this offensive as by normal standard this is acceptable in pdf. I have always experienced that even acceptable criticism of Erdogan and company is deemed as unacceptable on PDF... Let's see if u guys let my post stand..I won't be surprised if u don't.)

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## T-SaGe

Crimea

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1381243796776714243Rostov

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1381235445267361794Bryansk

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1381233064072904705

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1381180480406626304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1381178186814398465


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## aziqbal

Russia is moving everywhere, and here is my thoughts on 3 main nations to watch from naval power perspective, UK, Turkey and Japan, combined they have 2 x Carrier Strikes Groups (CSG) + 5 x Amphibious ready groups (ARG)

Arctic is being militarised and Russia in 2021 is as ambitious as ever

you dont become the largest country in the World by giving up land

NATO is now building a Comprehensive Strategy against Russia, this involves pretty much everyone in Europe

Japan, South Korea, Australia and South East Asian nations are also on board


*United Kingdom *
Royal Navy is on a massive expansion plan, 4 new SSBN are under development the new Dreadnaught Class, no other country has a answer to it not even the USN, the Dreadnaught Class 18,000+ ton monster submarines the largest ever built for the UK

2 x Queen Elizabeth Class Carriers largest ever built for the UK

New Type 26 and Type 31 FFG

7 x brand new Astute Class Hunter killers

Royal Navy will keep one CSG in the Northern Atlantic and 1 CSG East of Suez

a ARG made up of amphibious assault ships with Royal Marines will also be on stand by

*the other country to watch is Turkey *

Turkey is on a huge modernisation programme

1 x LHD + 2 x LST+ 7 x New LCT added to that 4 x Ada Class+ 4 x Istanbul Class + 4-6 x TF2000 very easily a ARG formed in the Eastern Mediterranean

there is talk of a second LHD and 2 more LST, so in theory by 2030 Turkish could have 2 x ARG

One deployed in Eastern Mediterranean and 1 deployed in Black Sea (if allowed by the convention)

*Japanese Maritime Self Defence Forces *

Massive naval build up, 2 x Izumo class, 2 x Hyuga Class + 3 x Osumi Class

4 x Kongo Class, 2 x Atago Class + 2 x Maya Class thats 8 AEGIS with BMD all 8 can launch the SM-3

in essence you have 2 very powerful ARG

so in conclusions I see this

*UK 
1 x CSG deployed in Atlantic/ North Atlantic 
1 x CSG deployed East of Suez 
1 x ARG ready to move at short notice in Mediterranean 

Turkey
1 x ARG in Eastern Mediterranean 
1 x ARG Black Sea *

*JMSDF *
*1 x ARG in South China Sea Area 
1 x ARG in Pacific Ring *

In Asia you can also add 2 x ARG from Australia and 2 x ARG from South Korea so an additional 4 x amphibious ready groups

all of the above combined fleet would look like a joke compared to the USN 11 x CSG + 11 x ARG which are bigger and more powerful

but they add critical mass to the entire programme to contain both Russia + China who really won't stand a chance


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## T-SaGe

As far as I can understand, Turkey would like to stay as neutral as possible in this type of confrontation. (What I'm talking about is things getting out of control) The rise of tensions in the military sense could easily negatively affects Turkey. But politically, it is not possible for us to recognize the occupation of Crimea and the unilaterally declared structure in Donbas.

It's a serious dilemma. There is an extensive circulation of news about the Crimean Ethnic Turks in the Turkish media. Public awareness is very sensitive on this issue, and this is also an issue that can easily be agitated by populist discourses. On the other hand, from AKKUYU NPP to S-400 purchases, from Karabakh to Syria, Russian-Turkish relations deepening than ever before.

ps:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1381155056158961665An example of counter-propaganda activities from Russian consulate in Turkey. Technically it is similar to Cgtn productions. Crimean Turkish is almost the same with our dialect, a significant advantage in terms of communication. Both parties want to use it.


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## T-SaGe

Chief of General Staff Gen. Yaşar Güler made a phone call with the US Chief of General Staff Gen. Mark Milley. Then, US notified Turkey for cancellation of the transition of two warships bound to Black Sea from Bosphorus.


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## Stryker1982

T-SaGe said:


> As far as I can understand, Turkey would like to stay as neutral as possible in this type of confrontation. (What I'm talking about is things getting out of control) The rise of tensions in the military sense could easily negatively affects Turkey. But politically, it is not possible for us to recognize the occupation of Crimea and the unilaterally declared structure in Donbas.
> 
> It's a serious dilemma. There is an extensive circulation of news about the Crimean Ethnic Turks in the Turkish media. Public awareness is very sensitive on this issue, and this is also an issue that can easily be agitated by populist discourses. On the other hand, from AKKUYU NPP to S-400 purchases, from Karabakh to Syria, Russian-Turkish relations deepening than ever before.
> 
> ps:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1381155056158961665An example of counter-propaganda activities from Russian consulate in Turkey. Technically it is similar to Cgtn productions. Crimean Turkish is almost the same with our dialect, a significant advantage in terms of communication. Both parties want to use it.



Always pleased to see your posts.

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## casual

I don't see any chance for a Ukrainian victory here if war breaks out. Surely Ukrainian strategists aren't this stupid to start a war with Russia.

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## T-SaGe

casual said:


> I don't see any chance for a Ukrainian victory here if war breaks out. Surely Ukrainian strategists aren't this stupid to start a war with Russia.



Russian ships started exercises in the Black Sea. Russia certainly sends the message that it is ready for every eventuality. NATO's MPA flights continue, but the US has backed down in bringing its warships to the Black Sea. Russia continues to retain the tactical advantage by playing the cards in the right order.

edit: Russia has announced it will close the strategic Kerch Strait which connects the Black Sea and Sea of Azov, starting next week until October 2021. https://interfax.com.ua/news/general/737914-amp.html

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## Mohamed Bin Tughlaq

T-SaGe said:


> Russian ships started exercises in the Black Sea. Russia certainly sends the message that it is ready for every eventuality. NATO's MPA flights continue, but the US has backed down in bringing its warships to the Black Sea. Russia continues to retain the tactical advantage by playing the cards in the right order.
> 
> edit: Russia has announced it will close the strategic Kerch Strait which connects the Black Sea and Sea of Azov, starting next week until October 2021. https://interfax.com.ua/news/general/737914-amp.html



Lmao.. Off-topic! The Sea of Azov for some weird reasons reminding me about azog the defiler


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## T-SaGe

Some satellite photos about Russia's increasing military buildup in Crimea:

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## KurtisBrian

Mohamed Bin Tughlaq said:


> Lmao.. Off-topic! The Sea of Azov for some weird reasons reminding me about azog the defiler



Azog matches much closer to Gozer, from Ghostbusters. You know those guys in the brown coveralls (like German Nazi brown shirts) who fight a being all in white (Catholics, Templars (red and white)). 

Russians do have red and white in their flag as do Canadians, Americans, the British, French, Italians, Poles....


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## Rana4pak

All Russian speaking area will definitely go with Russia like lughansk,donetsk and kharkov,their is already a big divide between Russian n Ukrainian

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## T-SaGe

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1383491993637060619While military vessels (landing ships) transferred from the Russian Caspian fleet to the Black Sea pass through the Kerch Strait...


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## Goritoes

very very interesting buildup, they Russians did the same with Crimea ,they refuse their involvement in the conflict up until its too late for anyone to act, and Crimea was under formal Russian control, maybe a similar tactic will be used for other regions of Ukraine which are pro Russian?

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## Mohamed Bin Tughlaq

casual said:


> I don't see any chance for a Ukrainian victory here if war breaks out. Surely Ukrainian strategists aren't this stupid to start a war with Russia.



Never assume this false narrative. Russia is out there trying to act tough but never underestimate the EU and NATO. Lets forget NATO and just say the EU.

The EU is being diplomatic and very smart about things and they don't wanna reveal their hands. Right now you don't real know the opinions in the EU capitals everything is kept hidden except what you see coming out of Belgium the seat of EU. If Russia was to push it's luck here it won't only fight Ukraine It could end in a whole alot bigger war.. Russia is also unecessarily overrated when compared to the EU who in return is criminally underrated as an entity or mistakenly overlooked but they are a formdible foe even one China fears.

EU ---- > Russia it is not even close........

Better Economy, more Manpower, more modern weaponry and better defense systems

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## T-SaGe




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## casual

Mohamed Bin Tughlaq said:


> Never assume this false narrative. Russia is out there trying to act tough but never underestimate the EU and NATO. Lets forget NATO and just say the EU.
> 
> The EU is being diplomatic and very smart about things and they don't wanna reveal their hands. Right now you don't real know the opinions in the EU capitals everything is kept hidden except what you see coming out of Belgium the seat of EU. If Russia was to push it's luck here it won't only fight Ukraine It could end in a whole alot bigger war.. Russia is also unecessarily overrated when compared to the EU who in return is criminally underrated as an entity or mistakenly overlooked but they are a formdible foe even one China fears.
> 
> EU ---- > Russia it is not even close........
> 
> Better Economy, more Manpower, more modern weaponry and better defense systems


EU is not a military alliance and doesn't have an army.

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## vostok

Rana4pak said:


> All Russian speaking area will definitely go with Russia like lughansk,donetsk and kharkov,their is already a big divide between Russian n Ukrainian


All the lands historically called New Russia (Novorossiya) in 18-20 ct. will reunite with Motherland.

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## Muhammed45

USA withdraws from sending 2 warships into the Black Sea which was aimed to support Ukrainian navy ships against Russian navy. 








U.S. drops plans to send destroyers into the Black Sea due to concerns over Russia


The tentative transit was not unusual or designed to send any particular new signal, an official familiar with the plans said.




www.google.com





Looks like Ukraine was again backstabbed by mighty USA. They have to stand on their own.


T-SaGe said:


>


Hahah nice

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## Rana4pak

vostok said:


> All the lands historically called New Russia (Novorossiya) in 18-20 ct. will reunite with Motherland.


but I will tell you areas like Kiev ,ternopal,livive n Odessa will give a tough time to Russian with help of polish,it’s not easy like Crimea bcz in Crimea the most of population is not Ukrainian like tatars

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## vostok

Odessa is 95% pro-Russian, Kiev is 50/50.


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## Sam.

vostok said:


> All the lands historically called New Russia (Novorossiya) in 18-20 ct. will reunite with Motherland.


Good luck and i heard you guys want all the land east of dnieper river.


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## vostok

Sam. said:


> Good luck and i heard you guys want all the land east of dnieper river.


No-no, you make it wrong. It is not Russia wants to conquer lands, it is people of this lands wants to reunite with Motherland, and do not want to be part of the West. If we ever will have the legal referendum we will make it legally.

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## Sam.

vostok said:


> No-no, you make it wrong. It is not Russia wants to conquer lands, it is people of this lands wants to reunite with Motherland, and do not want to be part of the West. If we ever will have the legal referendum we will make it legally.


I am not denying that and you can say majority of people and not all but that is what i hard from Russian friends. Also I am sure when you guys dissolved USSR there was a treaty with west where Ukraine to be never part of NATO but they are breaking the treaty so you have to answer in same manner. 

Recent Foreign Minister Lavrov’s visit to India laid groundwork for Mr putin arrival in India. Lets see how future goes.


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## KurtisBrian

vostok said:


> No-no, you make it wrong. It is not Russia wants to conquer lands, it is people of this lands wants to reunite with Motherland, and do not want to be part of the West. If we ever will have the legal referendum we will make it legally.



I am no fan of the Ukrainians but Russians there are migrant beggars. Have those Russian mongols return to the steppes. They can set up their yurt and wander around with some cows and goats.


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## vostok

KurtisBrian said:


> I am no fan of the Ukrainians but Russians there are migrant beggars. Have those Russian mongols return to the steppes. They can set up their yurt and wander around with some cows and goats.


Actually, Eastern and Southern Ukraine is steppe. So our yurts, cows and goats will stay here.
And we also will build some nuclear power plants, giant factories, naval yards and may be one spaceport - as we, mongols, used to do.


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## kuge

vostok said:


> All the lands historically called New Russia (Novorossiya) in 18-20 ct. will reunite with Motherland.
> View attachment 735151


hi do you have any knowledge about the terms known as Gog & Magog, Meshech, Togarmah & Tubal? thanks in advance


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## vostok

kuge said:


> hi do you have any knowledge about the terms known as Gog & Magog, Meshech, Togarmah & Tubal? thanks in advance


I've read Bible, but I do not remember about Togarmah & Tubal.


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## T-SaGe

KurtisBrian said:


> I am no fan of the Ukrainians but Russians there are migrant beggars. Have those Russian mongols return to the steppes. They can set up their yurt and wander around with some cows and goats.


The historical roots of modern Russia identity are essentially north of the Black Sea, not the Siberian steppes or any other. Why they got stronger first at further north instead of Black Sea is the subject of another thread entirely[1]. However, this anecdote could be handfull of understanding historical motivations beyond all other geopolitical reasons.

*


Spoiler: 1



From the 7th century until the 18th century, the region was under the pressure of Turkic or Turko-Mongolian khanates(Khazar Khaganate, Pechenegs, Cuman–Kipchak Confederation, Golden Horde etc.). The Northern Black Sea was also the main route of the first major Turkic migrations. Nations were pushed towards Europe.

When the Timurids destroyed the Golden Horde in the early 15th century, the political vacuum in the region caused the Turks to rapidly lose their power in the region. However, until it was occupied by Russia in 1783, north of black sea and Azov region was under the control of the Crimean Tatar khanate.

The dominant structure of the Muslim/Turkish populations in the region was intervened later. The region was Russianized with the Circassian genocide(north-east of Blacksea) on of the tsarist Russian in the mid-19th century and the exile of the Crimean Tatars(north-west of blacksea) in the Soviet period. Today, approximately 15% of Today's Turkish people of TR have Circassian and Crimea roots.

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## KurtisBrian

T-SaGe said:


> The historical roots of modern Russia identity are essentially north of the Black Sea, not the Siberian steppes or any other.



Sure, makes sense, North and East of the Black Sea has a bit of steppe. Vostok's comment that the Ukraine has some steppe is true too. Some "Russians" indeed might have wandered there in the past.
ydna tells us who the majority of "Russian" men are. 46%+/- are supposedly ydna haplogroup R1a. That is a BIG ancestral group of men. Same as most of the men in Eastern Europe, the Stan countries, Pakistan and India which would suggest a most eastly origin point for the majority of "Russians" but who knows. Of course ydna is only slightly useful. Even brothers do not get along or hold the same beliefs, let alone ancient distant cousins. Plus sometimes people change.

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## Muhammed45



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## KurtisBrian

Muhammed45 said:


> View attachment 735457
> View attachment 735458
> View attachment 735459
> View attachment 735460



I guess only Russian men can live in a place with Russian men. Have the largest nation on Earth still not enough. Russians just keep taking and will never stop so long as they exist.


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## T-SaGe

FORTE10 (RQ-4) headed to the Black Sea region.

NATO aircraft bypassing Turkish Airspace is very telling of its relationship with Turkey.
S- https://twitter.com/IntelCrab, https://twitter.com/TurkishFacts4U

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## T-SaGe

At an online press conference, Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said that Russia started to build up more than 120.000 troops on the Ukrainian borders.


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## vizier

Since after this built up and saying of Ukraine officials that military option is off the table a deescalation plan would be best to diffuse the situation there which appears to be at a deadlock waiting to be ignited anytime the other side makes some significant move.

Ofcourse after all these incidents the locals think that if they give up arms they will be arrested or executed immediately. There should be a set of measures and milestones to start a deescalation spiral to integrate the areas back to Ukraine. But it wont be easy and it will take a long time. Trustability is also a major issue one item that can compensate for the lack of it is to increase the span of integration measures to 8-10 years maybe that would include several future govts not just the current govt. Immediate measures can be Ukraine removing the extra troop buildup around Donbass. Further measures can be economic integration measures of these areas and investment plans to integrate the areas economically. Some groups such as Azov batallion is portrayed as having ultranationalist and supremacist motives. This should be investigated and if it is true it needs to be gradually reduced and disbanded. Also during 2014 conflict there are accusations of mercenaries making mass killings of locals this should be investigated and if responsibles found punished as well.Ukraine troops will gradually pull out and Donbass would gradually disarm and population can be integrated completely with milestones during this 10 year deescalation plan.

If things start again Russia would again support the resistance groups and everything would start over so turning back would not be easy. I doubt the current Ukr govt would start such deescalation spiral but this seems to be the only way to prevent a conflict with Russia and gain the lands back with its people.

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## T-SaGe

*Russia Withdraws From Ukraine Border*
by Yaren Yıldırım April 23, 2021





The Russian Defence Ministry says troops deployed near the Ukrainian border have begun to return to their permanent bases.
The Kremlin, which has deployed tens of thousands of troops near the Ukrainian border, causing weeks of tensions with the West, began withdrawing troops after the end of drills in the region.








“We must remember that this step will not end the current escalation or the conflict between Ukraine and Russia in general,” Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said.
Kuleba asked NATO for help last week in response to growing Russian pressure in the region.






REUTERS








Russia Withdraws From Ukraine Border - C4 Defence


Rusya Savunma Bakanlığı, Ukrayna sınırı yakınında konuşlandırılan askeri birliklerin kalıcı üslerine geri dönmeye başladığını açıkladı.




www.c4defence.com


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## 925boy

Mohamed Bin Tughlaq said:


> EU ---- > Russia it is not even close........
> 
> Better Economy, more Manpower, more modern weaponry and better defense systems


 Thats a general comparison, not a contextualized one. 

IN BLACK SEA AND UKRAINE-RUSSIA BORDER REGION -RUSSIA WINS. Whiney toothless NATO wont and doesnt have the time to deploy enough relevant troops and equipment by the time Russia is done stealing eastern Ukraine from Ukraine. thats just the facts...But Ukraine isnt even in NATO, so NATO is again a toothless lion roaring for the wrong reason - a non-NATO country. smh.


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## Mohamed Bin Tughlaq

925boy said:


> Thats a general comparison, not a contextualized one.
> 
> IN BLACK SEA AND UKRAINE-RUSSIA BORDER REGION -RUSSIA WINS. Whiney toothless NATO wont and doesnt have the time to deploy enough relevant troops and equipment by the time Russia is done stealing eastern Ukraine from Ukraine. thats just the facts...But Ukraine isnt even in NATO, so NATO is again a toothless lion roaring for the wrong reason - a non-NATO country. smh.



Russia has already pulled back broski? These so-called NATO nations are nearby Ukraine. You have Poland, and all the others are litered all around Ukraine just kilometers away from Ukraine. Russia knew this that things could escalate beyond Ukraine. Russia wants everything east of the dnipro river Ukraine will never agree to this. A conflict was certain. The Ukrainian president said we don't want war but we are ready for one. NATO played a big role in Russia's decision to withdraw. Russia views Ukraine itself as insignificiant as they have already annexed Crimea and occupy Donbass but NATO is the main deterence

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## 925boy

Mohamed Bin Tughlaq said:


> Russia has already pulled back broski? These so-called NATO nations are nearby Ukraine. You have Poland, and all the others are litered all around Ukraine just kilometers away from Ukraine. Russia knew this that things could escalate beyond Ukraine. Russia wants everything east of the dnipro river Ukraine will never agree to this. A conflict was certain. The Ukrainian president said we don't want war but we are ready for one. NATO played a big role in Russia's decision to withdraw. Russia views Ukraine itself as insignificiant as they have already annexed Crimea and occupy Donbass but NATO is the main deterence


I see what you mean, but i still believe Russia has teh current edge in the current situation - NATO still caught with their pants down for being wiling to die for non-NATO countries(Ukraine)..so in NATO cant act legall,y because there is no basis for it, but Russia can beat up Ukraine cuz its the big dog on the street and WHITEYs FROM EU and US just isnt ready to die for anybody but themselves. cheers.


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## Stryker1982

What was the purpose of this mass deployment if they are just returning back to their bases while the Ukrainians are still fully mobilized

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## vostok

Stryker1982 said:


> What was the purpose of this mass deployment if they are just returning back to their bases while the Ukrainians are still fully mobilized


It was military games one of a few big games during the year. Glad to see how Russian military games make the West and their slaves to s.it into the pants.

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## T-SaGe

I don't know what Ukraine expected from Turkey, but Turkey's not taking any position against Russia was not welcomed by some Ukrainian political circles. The interior minister even issued a message congratulating the US president and calling its country for same decision regarding the Armenian allegations. This wobble of Ukrainian policy makers will undoubtedly only damage relations.


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## Jobless Jack

Stryker1982 said:


> What was the purpose of this mass deployment if they are just returning back to their bases while the Ukrainians are still fully mobilized


A military games as per the normal schedule of Russia. 

Choosing to do the drills very close to the Ukraine border deliberately ---- To test the new US administration . to see how they will react and to distract and pile pressure on the said administration.


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## T-SaGe

Some interesting opinions about Russians Unity Forum held in (self-proclaimed) DPR, that reflects some Russian feelings...


https://topwar.ru/182357-v-donecke-gotovjatsja-zaschischat-russkih-na-ukraine-kogda-zaschitjat-sam-doneck.html





Another one,


https://topwar.ru/182394-tjazhelye-boi-na-donbasse-respubliki-v-zapadne.html




> Quo Vadis
> 
> Kiev is definitely in an advantageous position, in fact, having trapped the LDPR eternally to one-sided and Minsk group. The very fact of waging a war is beneficial also, for the Ukrainian government as a distraction, which can be cover up to falling living standards and political and economic failures regularly. Under the same pretext, if desired, it is possible to raise the level of the fight against dissent and internal dividing to the extreme. In the event of a partial defeat of Russians in the Donbass, Kiev will have a wonderful reason to call on the Kremlin to hurl thunderbolts, while demanding another installment plan or even debt restructuring from creditors. In the event of a complete defeat, the Ukrainian rulers will gladly pack their bags and go to spend the stolen goods in the West, where they will most likely be granted as the status of "government in exile". Russia will receive a dubious "prize" with the ravaged Ukrainian lands and tens of thousands of hidden or obvious nationalists, in addition to sanctions.


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## T-SaGe

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1387753543784820739

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## Mohamed Bin Tughlaq

T-SaGe said:


> Some interesting opinions about Russians Unity Forum held in (self-proclaimed) DPR, that reflects some Russian feelings...
> 
> 
> https://topwar.ru/182357-v-donecke-gotovjatsja-zaschischat-russkih-na-ukraine-kogda-zaschitjat-sam-doneck.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another one,
> 
> 
> https://topwar.ru/182394-tjazhelye-boi-na-donbasse-respubliki-v-zapadne.html



This events of accounts seems completely overconfidence Russia rolling over Ukraine is not a guaraantee. Ukraine could force it into a war of attrition and would get asistance after some time from the outside


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## 925boy

Mohamed Bin Tughlaq said:


> This events of accounts seems completely overconfidence Russia rolling over Ukraine is not a guaraantee. Ukraine could force it into a war of attrition and would get asistance after some time from the outside


ha ha ..you're in denial, just come out and say it- Russia displayed mighty ,serious force, THAT NATO , US NOR UKRAINE WAS READY TO MATCH.

when you say Ukraine will force Russia into a war of attrition do you mean to say Ukraine will be destroyed and nonexistent as a state soon but will keep holding out against Russia??? Russia won in this round, go sit down bra.


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## Mohamed Bin Tughlaq

925boy said:


> ha ha ..you're in denial, just come out and say it- Russia displayed mighty ,serious force, THAT NATO , US NOR UKRAINE WAS READY TO MATCH.
> 
> when you say Ukraine will force Russia into a war of attrition do you mean to say Ukraine will be destroyed and nonexistent as a state soon but will keep holding out against Russia??? Russia won in this round, go sit down bra.



War is not like an MMA fight or comic book storyline where someone can just lay out the opponent via one punch. When a large group of people collide with another large group of people things tend to drag out. considering both are well armed. War of attrition is not only a possiblitity but a reality in such a conflict. You just don't run thru a country with 41mio population that is heavily armed in this modern world. Depending on their will power and fuelled by patriotism it will be one hell'va fight. I would favor Russia if it is one vs one without a doubt and Russia is the stronger of the two but Ukraine won't fold without a gruelling fight but the thing is that the surrounding nations might come in aid to Ukraine altering the real outcome which would have been a Russian victory after grinding down Ukraine for 8-10 years


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## Old School

Ukraine must abandon it's NATO membership bid and stop all anti-Russian activities. This is the only option for peace.

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## Mohamed Bin Tughlaq

Old School said:


> Ukraine must abandon it's NATO membership bid and stop all anti-Russian activities. This is the only option for peace.



Russia wants everything east of Dnipro river this is unacceptable for Ukraine they will have no other option but to fight. This is why the Ukrainian president said we don't want war but we are ready for one. Ukraine is already a stargetic partner of NATO this will not change and especially after what happened here

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## Stryker1982

Mohamed Bin Tughlaq said:


> Russia wants everything east of Dnipro river this is unacceptable for Ukraine they will have no other option but to fight. This is why the Ukrainian president said we don't want war but we are ready for one. Ukraine is already a stargetic partner of NATO this will not change and especially after what happened here



Russia wants everything east of Dnipro, but is not willing to pay the price for it.

As usual, they are militarily brave but politically cowardly, which is why NATO has been encroaching on it's borders for years now.

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## 925boy

Mohamed Bin Tughlaq said:


> Russia wants everything east of Dnipro river this is unacceptable for Ukraine they will have no other option but to fight. This is why the Ukrainian president said we don't want war but we are ready for one. Ukraine is already a stargetic partner of NATO this will not change and especially after what happened here


From your post, i can conclude that you surely believe everything AMericans/your gov tells you....smh....i woud've thought PDF Would have educated you better on these issues. but trust me, i wont waste my brain and time trying to educate you, cuz you dont want it, like a typical egotistical American- you only know you've crashed when its too late. cheers.


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## Mohamed Bin Tughlaq

925boy said:


> From your post, i can conclude that you surely believe everything AMericans/your gov tells you....smh....i woud've thought PDF Would have educated you better on these issues. but trust me, i wont waste my brain and time trying to educate you, cuz you dont want it, like a typical egotistical American- you only know you've crashed when its too late. cheers.



Just because I believe in more realistic ground realities doesn't mean I am feed up with American media in fact I don't agree with 90% of the news or their blatant propaganda but this is from objective point of view


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## vizier

The best way to stop any imminent small scale conflict which can turn into a larger scale conflict would be Ukraine declaring a plan to integrate Donbass region fully back within 3-5 years. This would involve amnesty to residents as well as securty guarantees that involve gradual pullout of both army and locals(which should cooperate) giving up weapons. Independant drones can look for reduction of arms in the region taking the pictures of the area. Also economic incentives that would be given to that area like investments. Ukraine can take Eu as an investor partner in that region as well that contains mines and now idle industry which can be brought back online again. Locals living in Donbass can be planned to work in those industries and after investments.

A carefully thought out plan would take out any moral-ethical background of a pending Russian military operation so it wont happen in that case in my opinion. Other than that if Ukraine decides to strike first the Donbass region with the aim of taking control before Russia does then it would give pretext and excuse for Putin to start an operation or an enhanced proxy warfare situation. I think Usa wants a conflict as it would increase oil prices as well as dollar value giving some boost to its economy that was hit by covid pandemic selling more weapons to nato countries as well as Ukraine. For Putin it is the same as a conflict would hide potential economic failures which is partly because of covid pandemic giving the foreign sanctions and military ops as an excuse for bad economy. If Ukraine takes right actions and wont play this game of conflict it has much more to gain.

If they can successfully pull it off in Donbass they can do a similar approach in Crimea as well and gain partial control in that region with Russia in my opinion through negotiations and incentives. But they need to give up nato membership plan in return as it would mean a very possible conflict scenario with Russia to come to an agreement for Crimea.


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## Battlion25

vizier said:


> The best way to stop any imminent small scale conflict which can turn into a larger scale conflict would be Ukraine declaring a plan to integrate Donbass region fully back within 3-5 years. This would involve amnesty to residents as well as securty guarantees that involve gradual pullout of both army and locals(which should cooperate) giving up weapons. Independant drones can look for reduction of arms in the region taking the pictures of the area. Also economic incentives that would be given to that area like investments. Ukraine can take Eu as an investor partner in that region as well that contains mines and now idle industry which can be brought back online again. Locals living in Donbass can be planned to work in those industries and after investments.
> 
> A carefully thought out plan would take out any moral-ethical background of a pending Russian military operation so it wont happen in that case in my opinion. Other than that if Ukraine decides to strike first the Donbass region with the aim of taking control before Russia does then it would give pretext and excuse for Putin to start an operation or an enhanced proxy warfare situation. I think Usa wants a conflict as it would increase oil prices as well as dollar value giving some boost to its economy that was hit by covid pandemic selling more weapons to nato countries as well as Ukraine. For Putin it is the same as a conflict would hide potential economic failures which is partly because of covid pandemic giving the foreign sanctions and military ops as an excuse for bad economy. If Ukraine takes right actions and wont play this game of conflict it has much more to gain.
> 
> If they can successfully pull it off in Donbass they can do a similar approach in Crimea as well and gain partial control in that region with Russia in my opinion through negotiations and incentives. But they need to give up nato membership plan in return as it would mean a very possible conflict scenario with Russia to come to an agreement for Crimea.



Russia will never accept to release crimea and donbass making this a non-starter nor will Ukraine accept to share CRIMEA

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## vizier

Battlion25 said:


> Russia will never accept to release crimea and donbass making this a non-starter nor will Ukraine accept to share CRIMEA




Crimea is much harder to solve. The control was sort of mixed before 2014 events. Maybe the most that can be done would be rolling back to those conditions. But before Donbass is solved it is impossible to gain momentum or leverage to do something there.

If Ukraine comes up with an integration and solid deescalation plan about Donbass which is carefully monitored then another country such as Russia even militarily powerful wont be able to say much about not giving Ukraines own land back to Ukraine. Officially they dont claim anything on Donbass which is different from Crimean issue.


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## dBSPL

Unfortunately, efforts seem to have been in vain. The tension is at its height and the US seems to want a war with all its might, the thought that we have passed the inevitable point is predominant.

The UK has issued an urgent call for its citizens to leave Ukraine. The United States began carry its citizens back to the country.

The United States has announced that it is withdrawing from its ceasefire monitoring mission in Ukraine.

Hard days begin for everyone...

Ukraine and Russia together are the world's wheat warehouse. Big food inflation is coming.


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## dBSPL

Shares of US arms companies reached record prices in the stock market.

The value of gold against the US dollar increasing rapidly.

Oil is pushing $100 now

Markets began to price the Ukraine war.


///


drumrolls


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1492218839580352512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1492186793785053185

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1492214338211528704

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1492216144987660291


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## ghazi52

Countries tell nationals to leave over Russia threat​BBC





IMAGE SOURCE,REUTERS
Foreign powers have ramped up their warnings over a Russian invasion

*A host of countries have urged their nationals to leave Ukraine, amid growing warnings of a Russian invasion.*

The British foreign office said all UK nationals "should leave now while commercial means are still available".

Nato leaders have held a meeting, after which Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said the bloc stood "united & prepared for any scenario".

Russia has repeatedly denied any plans to invade Ukraine despite massing more than 100,000 troops near the border.

But it has just begun massive military drills with neighbouring Belarus, and Ukraine has accused Russia of blocking its access to the sea.

The Kremlin says it wants to enforce "red lines" to make sure that its former Soviet neighbour does not join Nato.

Among those countries calling on its citizens to leave are the Netherlands, Japan and South Korea. In its warning Latvia cited "a serious threat to security posed by Russia".

The US has also told its citizens to leave, with President Biden saying that he would not send any troops to rescue any citizens left stranded in the event of Russian action.

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said new Russian forces had arrived at the border.
"We're in a window when an invasion could begin at any time, and to be clear, that includes during the Olympics," he said. The Winter Olympics ends on 20 February.

Diplomatic efforts are under way to defuse the current crisis Ukraine.

UK Defence Secretary Ben Wallace warned his counterpart in Moscow that a Russian invasion of Ukraine would have "tragic consequences" for both countries. But Sergei Shogiu said growing military tensions in Europe were "not our fault".

The current tensions come eight years after Russia annexed Ukraine's southern Crimea peninsula. Since then, Ukraine's military has been locked in a war with Russian-backed rebels in eastern areas near Russia's borders.

Moscow says it cannot accept that Ukraine - a former Soviet republic with deep social and cultural ties with Russia - could one day join the Western defence alliance Nato and has demanded that this be ruled out.

Russia has been backing a bloody armed rebellion in Ukraine's eastern Donbas region since 2014. Some 14,000 people - including many civilians - have died in fighting since then.

There is some suggestion that a renewed focus on the so-called Minsk agreements - which sought to end the conflict in eastern Ukraine - could be used as a basis to defuse the current crisis.
Ukraine, Russia, France and Germany backed the accords in 2014-2015.

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## WinterFangs

dBSPL said:


> Shares of US arms companies reached record prices in the stock market.
> 
> The value of gold against the US dollar increasing rapidly.
> 
> Oil is pushing $100 now
> 
> Markets began to price the Ukraine war.
> 
> 
> ///
> 
> 
> drumrolls
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1492218839580352512
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1492186793785053185
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1492214338211528704
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1492216144987660291


War is brewing, won’t be surprised if something major happens within the next few days.

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## vizier

The psychology is that war is about to happen but currently what is the casus belli for Russia to attack. What would Putin say as the ceasefire is still ongoing. Would Putin say we need some action and get some victories to distract the people from bad economy for example? Even Nazis invaded Poland with some fake excuse like some cross border violations. If the danger zone was Crimea he could claim some pretext but Donbass is not recognized by Russia as its own land.
The danger is as the situation gets tense Ukraine would be provoked to pull the guns first and starts attacking Donbass first. This will give Putin the casus belli. Ukraine will start wargames soon and there is this possibility. As the forces are stationed close to Donbass there can even be a false flag there to create the war excuse. So it would be better for Ukraine wargames to be somewhat distant from the Donbass area or carefully monitored.
Also a new peace and reconstruction-reintegration plan for Donbass offered by Ukraine would tremendously cool down the situation.

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## ghazi52

Biden urges American citizens to leave Ukraine now​





Anadolu​February 11, 2022

US President Joe Biden has warned American citizens in Ukraine to leave amid fears over potential aggression by Russia. 

"American citizens should leave now," Biden told NBC News anchor Lester Holt in an interview partly aired on Thursday.

"It’s not like we’re dealing with a terrorist organization. We’re dealing with one of the largest armies in the world. It’s a very different situation and things could go crazy quickly," he said.

Biden also said he would not send troops to get Americans out of Ukraine.

"That's a world war when Americans and Russia start shooting at one another," he said.

Russia recently amassed more than 100,000 troops near Ukraine, prompting fears that the Kremlin could be planning another military offensive against its former Soviet neighbor.

Moscow has denied that it is preparing to invade and said its troops are there for exercises.

The Kremlin also issued a list of security demands from the West, including a rolling back of troop deployments to some ex-Soviet states and guarantees that Ukraine and Georgia will not join NATO.

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## dBSPL

President of Ukraine Zelensky is holding an urgent meeting with the Security Council.

In Kiev, the plan for the evacuation of the civilian population was approved. A sweeping wave of invasions directly targeting the capital is expected.

There is a very tense wait on the hot front. But there is no conflict yet.


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## ghazi52

US and Polish officials scouting border control sites to assist Americans leaving Ukraine, officials say​From CNN's Barbara Starr

US and Polish officials are scouting where to establish border control points to assist Americans coming out of Ukraine, according to two defense officials. 

Multiple sites have been identified along the border with Ukraine. The officials would not yet say the exact locations. 

One is expected to be an already existing Polish facility, while others are being built. The officials said the sites would offer temporary shelter and other amenities, as well as State Department services for Americans in transit. 

Troops of the 82nd Airborne in eastern Poland are expected to be handling much of the effort.

A senior defense official told CNN Friday that Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin had ordered 3,000 more soldiers from the 82nd Airborne Division to deploy to Poland, joining the 1,700 already there. The soldiers are there to help Americans who may try to leave Ukraine.

Pentagon press secretary John Kirby told reporters earlier this month that 82nd Airborne troops were sent to Poland primarily because "they are multi-mission capable."


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## BHAN85

Explosion in eastern Ukraine – reports


Unverified reports on social media say a loud “explosion” was heard in eastern Ukraine on Saturday




www.rt.com


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## dBSPL

Anyone who has ever looked into the eyes of our soldiers knows for sure that the aggressor will not take Kyiv, Odesa, Kharkiv or any other city’ - a joint statement of Minister of Defence of Ukraine and Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces​
“The army and volunteers managed to stand in 2014, when the ‘brother’ brazenly stabbed in the back. At that time, many people were not psychologically ready to resist those with whom they sat at the same table yesterday. Now the situation is completely different. The Kremlin is well aware of this, and it is an important deterrent. Today we have the most powerful army in Ukraine for the last 15 years and the most powerful army in Europe, our army is led by combat generals and officers. Ilovaisk, Debaltsevo left scars on its heart, but hardened its will. The heroic defence of Donetsk and Luhansk airports, the daily defence of dozens of settlements — from Stanytsia Luhanska to Shyrokyne — made the fighting spirit unbreakable. Anyone who has looked our soldiers in the eyes at least once is convinced that there will be no repeat of 2014, that the aggressor will not take Kyiv, Odesa, Kharkiv, or any other city. Do not doubt, the Armed Forces are absolutely ready to fight back and will not give up the Ukrainian lands!” stressed Minister of Defence of Ukraine Oleksii Reznikov.

“420,000 Ukrainian soldiers and every without exception commander have already looked in the eyes of death. Commanders of the Forces, commanders of brigades, battalions and companies are specialists in their field and patriots of their state. We will not give away a single piece of Ukrainian land!” added Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Lieutenant General Valerii Zaluzhnyi.

The Minister of Defence, in turn, added that this is not the first time in the last six months that “announcements” of a large-scale Russian invasion were made, and they should be seen as an additional way to break the enemy’s plans.

Oleksii Reznikov also noted that today Ukraine has unprecedented support from international partners — the largest one since Independence. In particular, this is manifested in the supply of defence weapons, which has increased the capability of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to repel the aggressor. During the month, almost 2,000 tons of modern weapons, ammunition and body armour were received from various countries. Our soldiers have already been trained and are ready to use the whole arsenal of tools.

The Minister of Defence stressed that the situation is controlled by Ukrainian intelligence, the army and diplomats.

Ukraine coordinates its actions with the world’s leading states 24/7. Such a union of leading democracies has not existed for decades.

Many countries are now truly comprehending the threat by the Russia’s actions and are emotionally go through it. Ukraine went through this 8 years ago.

“No one can look into the heads of Kremlin leaders and say for sure what exactly the actions could be taken. But we calculate absolutely all development scenarios and are ready for them. Today, many statements are being made, and Moscow is even saying that Ukraine is planning to attack Russia. This is absurd. We are not going to attack anyone, but we are doing everything to strengthen the defence and eliminate the possibility of escalation. We plan to follow the political-diplomatic path. I will tell you more, it is through diplomacy and peace that both Donetsk and Luhansk regions and Crimea and Sevastopol will return home! It is through this path that we now have incredible political and military technical aid from our partners, and it is through this path that the Kremlin has lifted its brazen blockade of Azov. Based on this path, we will seek to unblock the waters of the Black Sea. The powerful army that we are building up every day, the Territorial Defence Forces, are our important diplomatic arguments,” the Minister of Defenсe of Ukraine added.

“*I assure that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are ready to fight back. We conduct and will conduct training. Already the active phase of the command-staff exercises ‘Snowstorm-2022’ is being carried out throughout our country. We are constantly improving our defence capabilities, coherence of units and military skills. We have created combat formations and managed to deploy the Territorial Defence Forces in a short time and arm them with ATGMs and MANPADS. We have strengthened the defence of Kyiv. We went through the war and received proper training. Therefore, they are ready to meet enemies not with flowers, but with Stingers, Javelins and NLAW. Welcome to hell!” said Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Lieutenant General Valerii Zaluzhnyi.*

“What to do now? Keep calm, support the Armed Forces and diplomats. Calmness is now the main weapon that can provide us with a solid foundation for defence. To continue a normal life, to work is to ensure normal economic activity, and hence the ability of the Armed Forces to defend the country as much as necessary. Keep calm and do whatever you have to do, so that we all become stronger together”, Oleksii Reznikov summed up.



https://www.mil.gov.ua/en/news/2022/02/12/%E2%80%98anyone-who-has-ever-looked-into-the-eyes-of-our-soldiers-knows-for-sure-that-the-aggressor-will-not-take-kyiv-odesa-kharkiv-or-any-other-city-a-joint-statement-of-minister-of-defence-of-ukraine-and-commander-in-chief-of-the-armed-forces/


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## Iñigo

Ukraine is a conglomerate, a sum of pieces, its borders having been drawn by Lenin in 1922, Stalin in 1939 and 1945, and Khrushchev in 1954. One part is Poland, another part is Russia and another part is Ukraine, "the border", proper.

There are millions of Russian-Ukrainians in Ukraine.

If Ukrainian fanatics attack Russian-Ukrainians again, what should the Russian army do in your opinion ?

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## ghazi52

*Ukraine has called for a meeting with Russia and other members of a key European security group over the escalating tensions on its border.*

Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said Russia had ignored formal requests to explain the build-up of troops.

He said the "next step" was requesting a meeting within the next 48 hours for "transparency" about Russia's plans.

Russia has denied any plans to invade Ukraine despite the build-up of some 100,000 soldiers on Ukraine's borders.

Mr Kuleba said Ukraine had, on Friday, demanded answers from Russia under the rules of the Vienna Document, an agreement about security issues adopted by the members of the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), which includes Russia.

"If Russia is serious when it talks about the indivisibility of security in the OSCE space, it must fulfil its commitment to military transparency in order to de-escalate tensions and enhance security for all," he said.


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## FuturePAF

Russian airborne troops in helicopters on their way to the front? (escorted by Ka-52?)





And then there’s this:


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## vizier

Ukraine can consider joining an emerging European security pact Eu army instead of Nato for its security needs. I doubt Putin would say anything about it. Russia's problem is with Nato and its nuclear umbrella encircling Russia. But status of Crimea should be negotiated and come to terms for both sides for evading a possible future conflict to join a security pact.


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## Iñigo

...

Crimea is Russia before California was USA

---

Status of California, Texas, Nevada should be negotiated with México









Mexican–American War - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org

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## SuvarnaTeja

The war that US , UK and NATO have been predicting is about to start in the next few hours on 21st Feb, 2022.

You may ask why this date?

No this is not when Beijing Olympics are closing as leaders of the Ukraine and NATO wants you to believe.

This is the date when Munich Security Conference 2022 ends where Ukraine and NATO has formally agreed to the plan of invading Russia.

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## SIPRA

Title of the thread implies, as if war has started.

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## SuvarnaTeja

SIPRA said:


> Title of the thread implies, as if war has started.



The false flag operation to implicate Russia has already been done when Ukraine destroyed a Kindergarten School in Donbas.

They were waiting for the Munich conference to be over to start the full scale war.











Shelling Strikes Two Schools In Eastern Ukraine, Including Kindergarten


A school was damaged by shelling on the morning of February 17 in Vrubivka in eastern Ukraine's Luhansk region. Journalists from RFE/RL's Donbas.Realities team on the scene reported that shells landed 30-40 meters from the school.




www.rferl.org





Shelling Strikes Two Schools In Eastern Ukraine, Including Kindergarten​February 17, 2022 15:18 GMT

By RFE/RL's Ukrainian Service
A school was damaged by shelling on the morning of February 17 in Vrubivka in eastern Ukraine's Luhansk region. There were 53 children and 16 adults in the building when the attack occurred but none was injured.

Journalists from RFE/RL's Donbas.Realities team on the scene reported that shells landed 30-40 meters from the school. Shrapnel shattered windows and tore into walls. One private house was also damaged but was empty. Locals blame Russia-backed separatists for the attack.

Also on February 17, a kindergarten in the frontline town of Stanytsya Luhanska was heavily damaged by shelling and three people were injured.

The press center for Ukraine's military forces reported that, as of the morning of February 17, it had recorded 29 violations of a cease-fire agreement by the Kremlin-backed militants in the Donbas region, including 27 using weapons prohibited under the Minsk accords. At the same time, the separatists published accusations that Ukraine's military forces had fired on territories they control. The claims could not be independently verified.






1The shell-damaged school building in Vrubivka, Ukraine, on February 17.




2A large crater outside the school.




3




4




5




6




7




8A large shell fragment near the school.




9Damage to a house near the school.




10




11
Heavy damage to a kindergarten in the frontline town of Stanytsya Luhanska. A total of 20 children and 18 staff were in the building that was shelled. Two women and one man were injured on the morning of February 17.



RFE/RL's Ukrainian Service​RFE/RL's Ukrainian Service is dedicated to covering all of Ukraine, including the conflict zones and Crimea, and sets a standard for balanced reporting and high-impact investigative journalism.

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## hyperman

What kind of drugs are you on that you think Ukraine is the one starting the war? why would Ukraine start a war it can't win. Its the Russians that spent all this time building up for months, bringing troops all the way from Siberia for the "war games".

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## خره مينه لګته وي

Shelling or whatever it's but full scale war isn't going to happen especially USA+NATO will never ever drag themselves into it even if Russians invade Ukraine... 


SuvarnaTeja said:


> Ukraine and NATO has formally agreed to the plan of invading Russia


Do you really think that it'll happen ?? Never -__- 

NATO's invasion into Russian territory means WWIII...
Nuclear weapons will start flying & that's not happening 🙄 

NATO + USA will just watch from the other side of a fence if Russians & Ukrainians start fighting that's all.


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## Indos

SuvarnaTeja said:


> The war that US , UK and NATO have been predicting is about to start in the next few hours on 21st Feb, 2022.
> 
> You may ask why this date?
> 
> No this is not when Beijing Olympics are closing as leaders of the Ukraine and NATO wants you to believe.
> 
> This is the date when Munich Security Conference 2022 ends where Ukraine and NATO has formally agreed to the plan of invading Russia.

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## SuvarnaTeja

hyperman said:


> What kind of drugs are you on that you think Ukraine is the one starting the war? why would Ukraine start a war it can't win. Its the Russians that spent all this time building up for months, bringing troops all the way from Siberia for the "war games".



Ukraine has approached the devil for help and now needs to demonstrate her loyalty to the devil before devil helps..

But for the Devil, Ukraine is just a pawn to deplete the strength of Russia.

The devil will enter the arena only when Russia is weak and down.



خره مينه لګته وي said:


> Shelling or whatever it's but full scale war isn't going to happen especially USA+NATO will never ever drag themselves into it even if Russians invade Ukraine...
> 
> Do you really think that it'll happen ?? Never -__-
> 
> NATO's invasion into Russian territory means WWIII...
> Nuclear weapons will start flying & that's not happening 🙄
> 
> NATO + USA will just watch from the other side of a fence if Russians & Ukrainians start fighting that's all.



Even the Soviets had nukes but it did not prevent the collapse of the USSR.


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## MuslimRAJPUT

SuvarnaTeja said:


> Ukraine has approached the devil for help and now needs to demonstrate her loyalty to the devil before devil helps..
> 
> But for the Devil, Ukraine is just a pawn to deplete the strength of Russia.
> 
> The devil will enter the arena only when Russia is weak and down.
> 
> 
> 
> Even the Soviets had nukes but it did not prevent the collapse of the USSR.


You must be fun at parties 😒


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## arjunk

Everyone including Americans are tired of people crying wolf over this. Slowest war ever. There is more action in 1 hour on the LoC than this whole standoff. Maybe in 2056 they will fire a few bullets.


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## SuvarnaTeja

arjunk said:


> Everyone including Americans are tired of people crying wolf over this. Slowest war ever. There is more action in 1 hour on the LoC than this whole standoff. Maybe in 2056 they will fire a few bullets.



Russia does not want a war. All they are asking was to implement the Minsk agreements that was agreed upon by all the parties. 

Ukraine has gone back on the Minsk agreements as they now believe that they have the support of the Devil to destroy Russia.

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## ghazi52

*Russian President Vladimir Putin signed decrees recognizing two controversial separatist-held regions, the Donetsk People's Republic and the Luhansk People's Republic, Monday in a ceremony carried on state television.
*
US Secretary of State Antony Blinken has previously promised “a swift and firm response” from the US and allies and partners if Russia moves to recognize Ukraine’s breakaway regions as part of Russian territory, calling such a move a “gross violation of international law.”

War broke out in 2014 after Russian-backed rebels seized government buildings in towns and cities across eastern Ukraine. Intense fighting left portions of the Donbas region's eastern Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts in the hands of Russian-backed separatists. Russia also annexed Crimea from Ukraine in 2014 in a move that sparked global condemnation.

The separatist-controlled areas in Donbas became known as the Luhansk People's Republic (LPR) and the Donetsk People's Republic (DPR). The Ukrainian government in Kyiv asserts the two regions are in effect Russian-occupied. The self-declared republics are not recognized by any government, including Russia. The Ukrainian government refuses to talk directly with either separatist republic.

The Minsk II agreement of 2015 led to a shaky ceasefire agreement, and the conflict settled into static warfare along the Line of Contact that separates the Ukrainian government and separatist-controlled areas. The Minsk Agreements (named after the capital of Belarus where they were concluded) ban heavy weapons near the Line of Contact.

Language around the conflict is heavily politicized. The Ukrainian government calls separatist forces "invaders" and "occupiers." Russian media calls separatist forces "militias" and maintains that they are locals defending themselves against the Kyiv government.

More than 14,000 people have died in the conflict in Donbas since 2014. Ukraine says 1.5 million people have been forced to flee their homes, with most staying in the areas of Donbas that remain under Ukrainian control and about 200,000 resettling in the wider Kyiv region.


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## ghazi52

BREAKING......... Ukraine to enter state of emergency at midnight​Ukraine has declared a state of emergency for 30 days, from midnight tonight.

The bill was approved by Ukraine's parliament just now. It introduces personal document checks and gives the government power to impose a curfew if needed.

Ukraine will impose restrictions on a range of digital and radio communication services, which the government says could inflame the situation.

And it means military reservists will not be allowed to leave the country.

The declaration affects all of Ukraine apart from two eastern regions which have been in a state of emergency since 2014.


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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495851796782362628Incredible. Hope he is safe...

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## WinterFangs

So it has begun [reports coming out putin has announced war on ukraine]


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## F-22Raptor

WinterFangs said:


> So it has begun [reports coming out putin has announced war on ukraine]



Putins an evil bastard. 

Ukraines only crime is to be free and independent from Russian backwardness. 

Time to annihilate the Russian economy.

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496678843981209600

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496680052003684353

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496683518423928832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496681306771628046

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496683665501343744

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## WinterFangs

F-22Raptor said:


> Putins an evil bastard.
> 
> Ukraines only crime is to be free and independent from Russian backwardness.
> 
> Time to annihilate the Russian economy.


Are these reports true? Not seeing much from the uk public, but it’s also 3.15 am here.


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## monitor

Russians invasion of Ukraine begin. Putin ask to surrounded arms by Ukrainian military

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## F-22Raptor

WinterFangs said:


> Are these reports true? Not seeing much from the uk public, but it’s also 3.15 am here.




Yes it’s true.

And for all the idiots here, US intelligence was indeed 100% accurate.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Still going to wait for actual confirmation.

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496683512920956928

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496686980255604738


FairAndUnbiased said:


> Still going to wait for actual confirmation.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496685029229047808

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## WinterFangs

Putin says “he will not occupy any Ukrainian land” let’s see how this goes. The day he has a meeting with imran khan this happens. Hm


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## WinterFangs

Yep, I saw it the second it got Announced, thought I was dreaming since it’s 3.15. Wasn’t expecting this.

More explosions and gunshots heard near one of the main airports near kiev.

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## Beidou2020

F-22Raptor said:


> Putins an evil bastard.
> 
> Ukraines only crime is to be free and independent from Russian backwardness.
> 
> Time to annihilate the Russian economy.



Russia is absolutely in the correct to protect the independent Donbass as they requested help and Russia is providing help. 

NATO is utterly powerless. 

America is powerless.

America’s unipolar moment is officially over.

Thank you Russia!

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496686696397684736


WinterFangs said:


> Yep, I saw it the second it got Announced, thought I was dreaming since it’s 3.15. Wasn’t expecting this.
> 
> More explosions and gunshots heard near one of the main airports near kiev.


US intelligence was accurate. This will have negative long-term consequences for Europe. Russia will also need a response to the sanctions, which I'm not sure what that is, yet.

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## Meengla

So it begins--officially. Please merge with other topic about the official start of the open war.








Putin’s Forces Attack Ukraine


Ukraine’s government said it faced “a full-scale attack from multiple directions.” World leaders condemned President Vladimir Putin’s actions.




www.nytimes.com


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## Beidou2020

America is powerless to stop Russia.

American unipolar moment is officially over.


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## WinterFangs

All the Pakistani, indian etc pdf members waking up today to this news

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496687826909466624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496689910241284096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496690402560258049


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## Meengla

I was hoping against hope that there was some 'deal' and that Russia would stop after grabbing the Donbass region. But Putin is determined.
I think we will probably see the biggest military conflict(s) in Europe with this invasion of Ukraine since WW 2.



Beidou2020 said:


> America is powerless to stop Russia.
> 
> American unipolar moment is officially over.



USSR had invaded eastern European countries before and the West couldn't do anything about them either. But, yes, the unipolar world is ending, if not already ended. 
This invasion will open a Pandora's Box of invasions. And I blame the American illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003--an invasion which made the anti-war Obama victory against Hillary possible-- as the most powerful blow to destroying the world order, however imperfect it was.

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## WinterFangs

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496690287476973569
Reports of something big cooking at kyiv airport, Russians are trying to take it.

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## F-22Raptor

Beidou2020 said:


> Russia is absolutely in the correct to protect the independent Donbass as they requested help and Russia is providing help.
> 
> NATO is utterly powerless.
> 
> America is powerless.
> 
> America’s unipolar moment is officially over.
> 
> Thank you Russia!




Ukraine wants to be free from Russian oppression, just like the rest of Europe. 

The US has no obligation to defend Ukraine since it is not a NATO member. Putin doesn’t dare touch a NATO member. Expect strengthening of NATO, and annihilation of the Russian economy.

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496688764424445952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496689463761817600

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

WinterFangs said:


> Putin says “he will not occupy any Ukrainian land” let’s see how this goes. The day he has a meeting with imran khan this happens. Hm



Reports indicate that the Kyiv has been hit with explosions.

Russia is asking Ukraine to laydown arms.


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## Beidou2020

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraine wants to be free from Russian oppression, just like the rest of Europe.
> 
> The US has no obligation to defend Ukraine since it is not a NATO member. Putin doesn’t dare touch a NATO member. Expect strengthening of NATO, and annihilation of the Russian economy.



You are utterly powerless to stop Russia.

Ukraine in NATO is now gone forever. Russia achieved its objectives of keeping Ukraine out of NATO.

American unipolar era is now over.

Complete humiliation for the American empire that they can’t stop Russia.

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## WinterFangs

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Reports indicate that the Kyiv has been hit with explosions.
> 
> Russia is asking Ukraine to laydown arms.


Reports of airport also being in control of russia after paratroopers took over, however I doubt it. But russia is trying to take control over kyivs airport


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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

WinterFangs said:


> Reports of airport also being in control of russia after paratroopers took over, however I doubt it. But russia is trying to take control over kyivs airport



I never thought they will hit Kyiv so fast.

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## WinterFangs

Beidou2020 said:


> You are utterly powerless to stop Russia.
> 
> Ukraine in NATO is now gone forever. Russia achieved its objectives of keeping Ukraine out of NATO.
> 
> American unipolar era is now over.
> 
> Complete humiliation for the American empire that they can’t stop Russia.


Ukraine alone can never ever stop a full Russian invasion I think every single person in the planet would agree. However the main issue for putin will be the resistance after the invasion


----------



## WinterFangs

Ukraine’s un envoy confirm Russia has invaded Ukraine.


----------



## Falcon29

Does Ukraine have an air force?


----------



## EAGLE777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496495325992960006


----------



## WinterFangs

Falcon29 said:


> Does Ukraine have an air force?


Yes

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## EAGLE777

Falcon29 said:


> Does Ukraine have an air force?


Very small and outdated.

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## dBSPL

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Still going to wait for actual confirmation.


All Ukraine is being bombin right now.

We are getting some very sad news from some of our friends.

We couldnt achieve peace. I am really sad.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Explosions hit Kyiv


----------



## Falcon29

SilentEagle said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496495325992960006



Would Turkey do so?


----------



## EAGLE777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496556845263171589


Falcon29 said:


> Would Turkey do so?


I have no idea

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## WinterFangs

Should’ve put petrol in my car, ffs. Anyways I hope all Ukrainians stay safe, all we wish for is peace and not war. I hope this does to spiral out of control

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## dBSPL

Kramatorsk is under attack. Kharkov is under attack. Odessa is under attack. Kyiv is under attack.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Falcon29 said:


> Does Ukraine have an air force?



Not much.

No fighters. No Air defence systems.

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## EAGLE777

According to some Turkish twitter sources PM of Ukraine Zelensky has fled the country.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

dBSPL said:


> Kramatorsk is under attack. Kharkov is under attack. Odessa is under attack. Kyiv is under attack.



Seems like all electronic assets are being taken out.


----------



## dBSPL

WinterFangs said:


> Should’ve put petrol in my car, ffs. Anyways I hope all Ukrainians stay safe, all we wish for is peace and not war. I hope this does to spiral out of control


Wheat!!!

A full-scale war, not just energy, could trigger a terrible food inflation.

I am ashamed to write this while people are under these bombs, but we will all have our share of this war.

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## WinterFangs

dBSPL said:


> Wheat!!!
> 
> A full-scale war, not just energy, could trigger a terrible food inflation.
> 
> I am ashamed to write this while people are under these bombs, but we will all have our share of this war.


It’s already bad enough with inflation here, time to move to Pakistan.


----------



## maithil

Will Biden do an Afghanistan with Ukraine ? Has Putin called his bluff ?


----------



## WinterFangs

maithil said:


> Will Biden do an Afghanistan with Ukraine ?


Never. Maybe station troops after this so called military operation, not during it.


----------



## EAGLE777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496638558261723137
Apparently it seems there were 2 Turkish cargo planes that just landed 2 hours ago at some airport in Ukraine are surrounded by the Russian forces.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496691231686021126


----------



## Falcon29

WinterFangs said:


> Should’ve put petrol in my car, ffs. Anyways I hope all Ukrainians stay safe, all we wish for is peace and not war. I hope this does to spiral out of control


Hybrid cars come in needy, haha.

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## casual

WinterFangs said:


> Reports of airport also being in control of russia after paratroopers took over, however I doubt it. But russia is trying to take control over kyivs airport


Dude, where are you seeing these "reports". Link please.


----------



## EAGLE777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496695069889503232

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## Wood

Terrible tragedy. I've been to Kiev several times. Sad to think that the places I've been to and the people I've interacted with are bombed 😭

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## EAGLE777

dBSPL said:


> Kramatorsk is under attack. Kharkov is under attack. Odessa is under attack. Kyiv is under attack.


Damn even Kyiv


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Missile strikes hit Kyiv


----------



## WinterFangs

casual said:


> Dude, where are you seeing these "reports". Link please.


Said by us senator rubio and also from people on the ground in kyiv. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496691772449521674


----------



## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496694976859754500


----------



## Tomcats

Several hours ago Russia began its intervention in Ukraine, here are the current visuals from the region.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496692666028990465

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496690722916950024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496688015896363014

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496695698519121924


----------



## Elias MC

https://imgur.com/YYpKoGe


----------



## EAGLE777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496694598072250375
Civilians fleeing Kyiv


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496694626148831235
one Bayraktar uav shot down.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Beidou2020 said:


> You are utterly powerless to stop Russia.
> 
> Ukraine in NATO is now gone forever. Russia achieved its objectives of keeping Ukraine out of NATO.
> 
> American unipolar era is now over.
> 
> Complete humiliation for the American empire that they can’t stop Russia.



Ukraine was NEVER a part of NATO. And the US was never going to defend Ukraine. Never

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496696158458101761

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## lastofthepatriots

Man, I broke this news 3 hours ago.

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## EAGLE777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496695519854440450
Ukranian navy pretty much completely wiped out.


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496696962242027522


----------



## Oldman1

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> I never thought they will hit Kyiv so fast.



Why surprised? Russia has long range missiles.


----------



## EAGLE777

Falcon29 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496696158458101761


MRLS not missiles

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## WinterFangs

SilentEagle said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496695519854440450
> Ukranian navy pretty much completely wiped out.


They have 1 frigate 1 corvette, not much of a navy


----------



## EAGLE777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496695524174581760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496696187109400578


----------



## F-22Raptor

The PDF posters claiming US intelligence was lying look like idiots right now.

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## Oldman1

F-22Raptor said:


> Yes it’s true.
> 
> And for all the idiots here, US intelligence was indeed 100% accurate.



The U.S. has been trying to tell the world in hopes of deterring Russia that they know, but Putin wasn't going to be deterred but had to make adjustments by saying we are protecting the Russians in the separatists region but in reality it was full scale invasion.

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## tower9

I admit I didn't see this coming. Holy shit, never thought I'd see a full fledged war in Europe in my lifetime. Looks like the Ukraine may really be absorbed back into Russia.

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## EAGLE777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496697140919377926

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496694991334391809

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496692822610743296

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## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496696293279817728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496697362152099840

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## Oldman1

tower9 said:


> I admit I didn't see this coming. Holy shit, never thought I'd see a full fledged war in Europe in my lifetime. Looks like the Ukraine may really be absorbed back into Russia.



I saw it coming following some twitter that have access to intel from aircraft and satellites. It was pretty obvious when you have Russian firepower being stationed everywhere, medical hospitals being setup, blood banks for wounded soldiers, Z symbols on vehicles, etc. Too expensive and too much for exercises.

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## dBSPL

*BREAKING: The Ministry of Defense of Ukraine announced the start of the Russian Federation's landing operation in the Black Sea and Azov Seas.*

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## EAGLE777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496698786705514498


----------



## F-22Raptor

Oldman1 said:


> The U.S. has been trying to tell the world in hopes of deterring Russia that they know, but Putin wasn't going to be deterred but had to make adjustments by saying we are protecting the Russians in the separatists region but in reality it was full scale invasion.




The US has known for many months

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## Falcon29

tower9 said:


> I admit I didn't see this coming. Holy shit, never thought I'd see a full fledged war in Europe in my lifetime. Looks like the Ukraine may really be absorbed back into Russia.



Europe and US to an extent are divided on pathway to decline.


----------



## EAGLE777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496697362152099840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496696825830645765

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496693210537672705

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Oldman1 said:


> Why surprised? Russia has long range missiles.



Not capability.

Can does not mean Will.

I thought Russia will limit the operations to East and South where there are more Russians.


----------



## IblinI

@aziqbal

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## maithil

This was the only final outcome of orange revolution.. Took 8 years.

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## kingQamaR

It’s an invasion not a liberation


----------



## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496698790295875585

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## FuturePAF

Looks like it’s full scale war?

Considering how it looks, should PM Khan cut short the visit and head home? What is the protocol when a neutral party’s leader is visiting a country when war starts between the host and another nation?


----------



## F-22Raptor

Again, for the imbeciles, US intelligence was 100% accurate.

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## lastofthepatriots

Falcon29 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496696591679430656
> 
> Let's sponsor Ukrainian female refugees



Don't be a sheikhjeet, bro.

My cousin who is half Ukrainian says that ruski ground forces will get fukt. Initial attack favors ruskis, but assyemtric warfare will screw them. It could very well be a blunder for Putin.

He says that his friends fighting are welcoming the Russians and saying we are waiting for kebab. Meanwhile men and teenagers are literally being abducted by Russian forces in donetsk and luhansk to go fight.

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## EAGLE777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496689125772177413


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496698224974962688


----------



## EAGLE777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496699455608967175

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496691772449521674

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## Oldman1

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Not capability.
> 
> Can does not mean Will.
> 
> I thought Russia will limit the operations to East and South where there are more Russians.



No definitely not, remember on the map where the Russians posted their forces from Belarus north of Ukraine and close to Kiev as well as position to Eastern Ukraine and Southern Ukraine with amphibious forces, this was full scale invasion. Many on twitter says its not, but others say it was. Some say they just want the separatists regions or this was a bluff, but this was way too much for that.









80% of Russia's forces around Ukraine in attack positions, U.S. official says


Russian President Vladimir Putin has put 80% of the troops he has assembled in a position to launch a full-scale invasion on Ukraine, a senior U.S. defense official said on Wednesday.




www.reuters.com





80% of Russia's forces around Ukraine in attack positions, U.S. official says​
WASHINGTON, Feb 23 (Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin has put 80% of the troops he has assembled in a position to launch a full-scale invasion on Ukraine, a senior U.S. defense official said on Wednesday.

"He is as ready as he can be," the official told reporters, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The remarks added to a sense of imminence of a possible Russian military onslaught, challenging any notion that Washington expected Putin to stop after recognizing the independence of two Moscow-backed rebel regions this week.


"They have advanced their readiness to a point where they are literally ready to go - now - if they get the order," the official said, without providing evidence to support the assertion.


----------



## dBSPL

Russia UN envoy: This is not a war, but a special military operation

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## beijingwalker

Biden says U.S., allies will respond to 'unjustified' attack by Russia on Ukraine​
Feb 23, 2022 Updated 6 min ago
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States and its allies will respond in a united and decisive way to "an unprovoked and unjustified attack by Russian military forces" on Ukraine, U.S. President Joe Biden said after blasts were heard in the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv.

"President (Vladimir) Putin has chosen a premeditated war that will bring a catastrophic loss of life and human suffering," Biden said in a statement.

"Russia alone is responsible for the death and destruction this attack will bring. The world will hold Russia accountable."

Biden said he would announce on Thursday further consequences to be imposed on Russia by the United States and its allies.









Biden says U.S., allies will respond to 'unjustified' attack by Russia on Ukraine


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States and its allies will respond in a united and decisive way to "an unprovoked and unjustified attack by Russian military forces" on Ukraine, U.S.




denvergazette.com

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## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496698927395057667

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496699092029870085

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496699455608967175


----------



## Falcon29

lastofthepatriots said:


> Don't be a sheikhjeet, bro.
> 
> My cousin who is half Ukrainian says that ruski ground forces will get fukt. Initial attack favors ruskis, but assyemtric warfare will screw them. It could very well be a blunder for Putin.
> 
> He says that his friends fighting are welcoming the Russians and saying we are waiting for kebab. Meanwhile men and teenagers are literally being abducted by Russian forces in donetsk and luhansk to go fight.


You had a Ukrainian cousin this whole time? 😮

There probably is truth to what he's saying. Ukraine can probably fight back but not much to counter ballistic missiles and cross border shelling. It sound like Russia want to occupy all of Ukraine, though. We'll see. 

If this ends up as blunder for Russia then I will sponsor a Russian refugee.

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## dBSPL

Markets are collapsing. RIP to btc hodlers

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Oldman1 said:


> No definitely not, remember on the map where the Russians posted their forces from Belarus north of Ukraine and close to Kiev as well as position to Eastern Ukraine and Southern Ukraine with amphibious forces, this was full scale invasion. Many on twitter says its not, but others say it was. Some say they just want the separatists regions or this was a bluff, but this was way too much for that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 80% of Russia's forces around Ukraine in attack positions, U.S. official says
> 
> 
> Russian President Vladimir Putin has put 80% of the troops he has assembled in a position to launch a full-scale invasion on Ukraine, a senior U.S. defense official said on Wednesday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 80% of Russia's forces around Ukraine in attack positions, U.S. official says​
> WASHINGTON, Feb 23 (Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin has put 80% of the troops he has assembled in a position to launch a full-scale invasion on Ukraine, a senior U.S. defense official said on Wednesday.
> 
> "He is as ready as he can be," the official told reporters, speaking on condition of anonymity.
> 
> The remarks added to a sense of imminence of a possible Russian military onslaught, challenging any notion that Washington expected Putin to stop after recognizing the independence of two Moscow-backed rebel regions this week.
> 
> 
> "They have advanced their readiness to a point where they are literally ready to go - now - if they get the order," the official said, without providing evidence to support the assertion.



Yes. I thought the troops in Belarus were for contingency should things in East and South did not work out.


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496701046508466176


----------



## Oldman1

Falcon29 said:


> You had a Ukrainian cousin this whole time? 😮
> 
> There probably is truth to what he's saying. Ukraine can probably fight back but not much to counter ballistic missiles and cross border shelling. It sound like Russia want to occupy all of Ukraine, though. We'll see.
> 
> If this ends up as blunder for Russia then I will sponsor a Russian refugee.



Putin wants to win the war fast and not get stuck in a long fight. Hence you got airborne forces trying to seize their objectives. .

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## Rana4pak

Ppl of Luhansk ,donetsk,Kharkov n Odessa are Russian speaking they will go with Russia

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## Falcon29

Oldman1 said:


> Putin wants to win the war fast and not get stuck in a long fight. Hence you got airborne forces trying to seize their objectives. .


Is the objective to occupy all of Ukraine? Or just to debilitate Ukrainian army so Donbas operation can be smooth and quick?


----------



## EAGLE777

dBSPL said:


> Markets are collapsing. RIP to btc hodlers


It was fuckd'up already

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Oldman1

Falcon29 said:


> Is the objective to occupy all of Ukraine? Or just to debilitate Ukrainian army so Donbas operation can be smooth and quick?



Putin has been saying in his speeches that Ukraine shouldn't exist anymore...


----------



## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496702397061779460


----------



## tower9

Oldman1 said:


> I saw it coming following some twitter that have access to intel from aircraft and satellites. It was pretty obvious when you have Russian firepower being stationed everywhere, medical hospitals being setup, blood banks for wounded soldiers, Z symbols on vehicles, etc. Too expensive and too much for exercises.



I wasn't surprised about the recognition of the republics and expected Russia would fight a limited war there. But now, especially after Putin's unhinged speech denying the existence of Ukraine, it sounds like they are looking to completely reabsorb the whole country.

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## Indos

FuturePAF said:


> Looks like it’s full scale war?
> 
> Considering how it looks, should PM Khan cut short the visit and head home? What is the protocol when a neutral party’s leader is visiting a country when war starts between the host and another nation?



Nope, it would not be a full scale of war of invading the whole Ukraine, Russian troops will remain in the current captured areas by the rebels, or the most aggressive move Putin would take IMO is to capture whole Dombas region which is now only 1/3 is in the hands of rebels


----------



## EAGLE777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496701955636449280

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## Falcon29

Oldman1 said:


> Putin has been saying in his speeches that Ukraine shouldn't exist anymore...


He's confusing and not confusing at the same time.


----------



## dBSPL

Oldman1 said:


> Putin has been saying in his speeches that Ukraine shouldn't exist anymore...


Russia's UN envoy said Russian federation has no plans to invade Ukraine. The Ukrainian representative, on the other hand, said that war criminals would burn in hell, while looking into the eyes of his Russian counterpart.

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## Tomcats

Indos said:


> Nope, it would not be a full scale of war, Putin will remain in the current captured areas by the rebels, or the most aggressive move he would take IMO is capture whole Dombas region which is now only 1/3 is in the hands of rebels


The goal is regime change, Putin just said this before his start of the invasion. He wants the entire demilitarization of Ukraine. Donbass will of course be separated from Ukraine once this assault ends.

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## FuturePAF

SilentEagle said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496695519854440450
> Ukranian navy pretty much completely wiped out.


It was basically just one frigate.


----------



## EAGLE777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496702398001295366


----------



## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496702755595038722

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## Meengla

We will look at this through our own narrow prisms of 'national interests'. To some, a reflexive anti-Americanism will justify the Russian invasion. To the Chinese, the Iranians, and others, it is a God-Send opportunity to keep the West tied down in Europe. I personally don't take any sides in this and nor should Pakistanis. This is a European war and like all wars, fought for natural resources. But it must be said: The West's expansion toward Russia is to grab Russia's riches; they couldn't wait for Putin to die so that another drunk Yeltsin would hand over Russia to them. I don't think Russia would have gone to this extreme had it not been provoked for so long. 

If all the Ukrainians-a country of 40 million with strong decades old Western support--can come up is a guerilla war as the best plan then they don't have the fight in them.

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## EAGLE777

FuturePAF said:


> It was basically just one frigate.


Don't shoot the messenger

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## Oldman1

dBSPL said:


> Russia's UN envoy said Russian federation has no plans to invade Ukraine. The Ukrainian representative, on the other hand, said that war criminals would burn in hell, while looking into the eyes of his Russian counterpart.



Yeah they said they had no plans to invade Ukraine, but they didn't believe it. Even to the point of where a Ukrainian reporter attacked a pro Russian politician days before the invasion because of possible war.

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## dBSPL

Kashmiri Rebel said:


> What are you talking. Its best time to buy and sell in couple of weeks ago, when market start stabilizing. I will myself buy some


No bro, buy from the top, sell from the bottom.

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## Enigma SIG

Alright folks. WW3 is upon us.


----------



## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496700719386271745

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496702877515100161


----------



## luciferdd

Ukraine is being betrayed by NATO again,stupid and disgusting politicians.

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## ejaz007

Russia-Ukraine latest: Putin announces military operation​_Russian president announces military operation in Donbas region, warns other nations of consequences if they interfere._






Putin said the responsibility for bloodshed lies with the Ukrainian 'regime' [AP Photo]
By Farah Najjar
Published On 23 Feb 202223 Feb 2022
|
Updated: 
8 minutes ago

Russian President President Vladimir Putin announces military operation in eastern Ukraine’s Donbas region.
US President Joe Biden denounced “unprovoked and unjustified” attack on Ukraine, pledging the world will “hold Russia accountable”.
UN Security Council members hold emergency meeting amid mounting tensions.
UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres urges Putin to “stop troops from attacking Ukraine”.
Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says Putin had not replied to his invitation to hold talks.
Kremlin says Ukraine separatists have asked Moscow for “help” against Kyiv.
Here are the latest updates:









Latest Russia-Ukraine updates: Tens of thousands flee their homes


Ukraine invasion news from February 24: UN says several thousand Ukrainians crossing into neighbouring countries.




www.aljazeera.com

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## FuturePAF

Oldman1 said:


> I saw it coming following some twitter that have access to intel from aircraft and satellites. It was pretty obvious when you have Russian firepower being stationed everywhere, medical hospitals being setup, blood banks for wounded soldiers, Z symbols on vehicles, etc. Too expensive and too much for exercises.


That’s true, the expense of staging 120 battalion tactical groups; 75% of the Russian Army in place was too expensive not to use. (This also indicates the Russian military isn’t as strong as it looks, and this was probably the last big war the current Russian military can afford to launch)

Although this operation will probably be swift, max a few weeks as the muddy soil of March will bog down any Russian troop movements. So, Putin looks like he wants to be in and out within a fortnight, if not sooner.

Two lessons smaller nations will learn from this: always build up a decent conventional force to at least be a challenge to a larger adversary. And the second is unilateral denuclearization is suicidal. (It’s moments like these, we should be thankful Pakistan had people like AQ Khan and other Gumnaam heros)

All the non-proliferation experts will have this example to try to explain away.

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## EAGLE777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496702565182066690


dBSPL said:


> No bro, buy from the top, sell from the bottom.


Buy Shiba 🦊

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## Indos

Tomcats said:


> The goal is regime change, Putin just said this before his start of the invasion. He wants the entire demilitarization of Ukraine. Donbass will of course be separated from Ukraine once this assault ends.



Even USSR cannot hold Afghanistan, let alone Ukraine which is much powerful, there will be insurgency and supplied armed by US and NATO countries.

It is suicide to capture whole big nation like Ukraine

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## Pappa Alpha

Some notify the famous PDF think tank analyst.

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## dBSPL

BRAKING: The Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine urgently calls the people to shelters. Kyiv is under attack by ballistic missiles.

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## tower9

Meengla said:


> We will look at this through our own narrow prisms of 'national interests'. To some, a reflexive anti-Americanism will justify the Russian invasion. To the Chinese, the Iranians, and others, it is a God-Send opportunity to keep the West tied down in Europe. I personally don't take any sides in this and nor should Pakistanis. This is a European war and like all wars, fought for natural resources. But it must be said: The West's expansion toward Russia is to grab Russia's riches; they couldn't wait for Putin to die so that another drunk Yeltsin would hand over Russia to them. I don't think Russia would have gone to this extreme had it not been provoked for so long.
> 
> If all the Ukrainians-a country of 40 million with strong decades old Western support--can come up is a guerilla war as the best plan then they don't have the fight in them.


Russians are proud people. You can't keep humiliating them and expect to get away with it. They are the type of people who would kill themselves just to make sure you got hurt because you insulted them.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Oldman1

luciferdd said:


> Ukraine is being betrayed by NATO again,stupid and disgusting politicians.


Betrayed? The U.S. has been telling the world and Ukraine itself a possible invasion. The Ukrainian President says its not coming!!









Ukraine's President Plays Down Russian Invasion Fears


Volodymyr Zelenskyy is questioning increasingly strident U.S. warnings that Russia could be planning to invade soon.




time.com





Ukraine's President: 'If You Have Information About a Russian Invasion, Please Forward That to Us'​
*Zelenskyy has repeatedly played down the U.S. warnings, questioning the increasingly strident statements from U.S. officials in recent days that Russia could be planning to invade as soon as midweek.









Why Ukraine’s president is talking down the threat from Russia


Volodymyr Zelensky’s call for calm rubs America the wrong way




www.economist.com




*
Why Ukraine’s president is talking down the threat from Russia​Volodymyr Zelensky’s call for calm rubs America the wrong way​
Blood may soon be spilled in Ukraine, but will it be real or fake? On January 31st authorities arrested a group they said was planning to stage riots in Ukrainian cities. The plot allegedly involved thousands of paid anti-government protesters, smoke bombs and litres of fake blood for the cameras, with medics on the scene to simulate first aid. The goal, explained Ihor Klymenko, Ukraine’s police chief, was to shake the country with viral images of unrest and police brutality.

Yet two days earlier, Ukraine’s government dismissed leaks from American intelligence officials that Russia was transporting supplies of blood to its troops at the Ukrainian border to treat potential casualties of war. “The purpose of such information is to spread panic and fear in our society,” wrote the deputy defence minister, Hanna Maliar, in a Facebook post. A rhetorical and analytical rift has opened between Ukraine and America. While the Americans warn of an imminent Russian invasion, Volodymyr Zelensky, Ukraine’s president, thinks the gravest threat may come from within.

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## EAGLE777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496704778029654024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496704586584784900

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## Tomcats

The entire Ukrainian Surface fleet has been reportedly destroyed, multiple credible sources have alluded to this. *Take this report with suspicion as more reports come situation will clear up*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496699483761127429

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496696591679430656


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## casual

At least it seems like it'll be a short conflict

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496704992689983495

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## EAGLE777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496702695876485123

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## Tomcats

Indos said:


> Even USSR cannot hold Afghanistan, let alone Ukraine which is much powerful, there will be insurgency and supplied armed by US and NATO countries.
> 
> It is suicide to capture whole big nation like Ukraine


They are not going to occupy the whole region per se permanently. Also yeah there will be an insurgency though too early to tell how it will play out.


----------



## Enigma SIG

Indos said:


> Even USSR cannot hold Afghanistan, let alone Ukraine which is much powerful, there will be insurgency and supplied armed by US and NATO countries.
> 
> It is suicide to capture whole big nation like Ukraine


He's slicing off territory, of course he knows he can't hold Ukraine.


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## cssniper

Ukraine don't stand a chance against the Russia.

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## casual

Indos said:


> Even USSR cannot hold Afghanistan, let alone Ukraine which is much powerful, there will be insurgency and supplied armed by US and NATO countries.
> 
> It is suicide to capture whole big nation like Ukraine


Afghanistan had mountains tho

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## luciferdd

Oldman1 said:


> Betrayed? The U.S. has been telling the world and Ukraine itself a possible invasion. The Ukrainian President says its not coming!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine's President Plays Down Russian Invasion Fears
> 
> 
> Volodymyr Zelenskyy is questioning increasingly strident U.S. warnings that Russia could be planning to invade soon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> time.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine's President: 'If You Have Information About a Russian Invasion, Please Forward That to Us'​
> *Zelenskyy has repeatedly played down the U.S. warnings, questioning the increasingly strident statements from U.S. officials in recent days that Russia could be planning to invade as soon as midweek.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Ukraine’s president is talking down the threat from Russia
> 
> 
> Volodymyr Zelensky’s call for calm rubs America the wrong way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.economist.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Why Ukraine’s president is talking down the threat from Russia​Volodymyr Zelensky’s call for calm rubs America the wrong way​
> Blood may soon be spilled in Ukraine, but will it be real or fake? On January 31st authorities arrested a group they said was planning to stage riots in Ukrainian cities. The plot allegedly involved thousands of paid anti-government protesters, smoke bombs and litres of fake blood for the cameras, with medics on the scene to simulate first aid. The goal, explained Ihor Klymenko, Ukraine’s police chief, was to shake the country with viral images of unrest and police brutality.
> 
> Yet two days earlier, Ukraine’s government dismissed leaks from American intelligence officials that Russia was transporting supplies of blood to its troops at the Ukrainian border to treat potential casualties of war. “The purpose of such information is to spread panic and fear in our society,” wrote the deputy defence minister, Hanna Maliar, in a Facebook post. A rhetorical and analytical rift has opened between Ukraine and America. While the Americans warn of an imminent Russian invasion, Volodymyr Zelensky, Ukraine’s president, thinks the gravest threat may come from within.


They need your ARMY,not your mouth!If NATO see Ukraine a part of NATO you should send your troops to Ukraine and fight agaist Russia,if not you should keep them away from NATO.

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## dBSPL

The Ukrainian Embassy asked for help from Turkey.

'Russia has started a war against Ukraine. Peaceful Ukrainian cities are being bombed. We call on our strategic partner Turkey and the friendly Turkish people to support us in this difficult time.'

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496698377668599809

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## R Wing

NATO's eastward expansion should have stopped where the US promised it would. But, of course, the US kept luring more and more countries around Russia to join NATO, unnecessarily causing a crisis. 

To justify these retarded moves, the US had to paint Russia as some kind of villainous monster dying to invade Europe. Russia just wants to be secure and develop, like pretty much any other country, while controlling its neighborhood. By provoking Russia incessantly, the US has brought things to a stage where Putin really doesn't have many options than to play hardball. 

The biggest tragedy is that this history is hardly ever mentioned by anybody in the West - from commentators and academics to politicians and generals. Just amazing. Their history starts a few years ago - as if their NATO expansion isn't a part of the problem. Not to mention the regime change they pulled in Ukraine to bring it into its own orbit. You can't do stuff like that and not expect a response.

The US should focus all this energy inward to solve hunger, homelessness, universal healthcare, and other issues. Some of the issues plaguing the US internally are honestly mind-boggling given the trillions it wastes on far-away chess moves.

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## arjunk

Makhi man has started WWIII. I'm sorry guys:



arjunk said:


> Everyone including Americans are tired of people crying wolf over this. Slowest war ever. There is more action in 1 hour on the LoC than this whole standoff. Maybe in 2056 they will fire a few bullets.


----------



## dBSPL

luciferdd said:


> I
> 
> They need your ARMY,not your mouth!If NATO see Ukraine a part of NATO you should send your troops to Ukraine and fight agaist Russia.If not you should keep them away freom NATO.


NATO
*N*o *A*ction *T*alk *O*nly

And Putin knows this very well

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## beijingwalker

It's all over for Ukraine and Nato.

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## jaybird

I hope the people in Taiwan are watching the Ukraine war right now. When you keep pushing the red line, war will happen and is not going to be pretty for all sides. And no one will come to save you. 

By the way, Where is 100 elite troops from Britain?

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## FuturePAF

Indos said:


> Nope, it would not be a full scale of war of invading the whole Ukraine, Russian troops will remain in the current captured areas by the rebels, or the most aggressive move Putin would take IMO is to capture whole Dombas region which is now only 1/3 is in the hands of rebels


So mostly an air war, once the Russians achieve air superiority. Rocket and cruise missile strikes on key Ukrainian government and military installations only? Then where do you see this conflict going?


----------



## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496707078760632322

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496705653422895108

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496707078760632322


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## Oldman1

luciferdd said:


> I
> 
> They need your ARMY,not your mouth!IF NATO see Ukraine a part of NATO,if not you should keep them away freom NATO.



1. Biden has told many times to Ukraine and the world that he will not send forces into Ukraine, even to the point of rescuing any American citizens that still remain in Ukraine long after telling them to get the hell out. 
2. The only thing that the U.S. government can do to help Ukraine was intelligence and supplying arms to inflict casualties without going into possible WW3, and other NATO countries like Germany will not help because Ukraine is not part of NATO.
3. We just got out of Afghanistan after 20 years of conflict as well as the continue fighting in Iraq and possible conflict with China on Taiwan, helping Ukraine by sending U.S. forces is just not on the table.


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## Rana4pak

Putin telling Imran was attack on Ukraine is necessary

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## FuturePAF

Oldman1 said:


> Betrayed? The U.S. has been telling the world and Ukraine itself a possible invasion. The Ukrainian President says its not coming!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine's President Plays Down Russian Invasion Fears
> 
> 
> Volodymyr Zelenskyy is questioning increasingly strident U.S. warnings that Russia could be planning to invade soon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> time.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine's President: 'If You Have Information About a Russian Invasion, Please Forward That to Us'​
> *Zelenskyy has repeatedly played down the U.S. warnings, questioning the increasingly strident statements from U.S. officials in recent days that Russia could be planning to invade as soon as midweek.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Ukraine’s president is talking down the threat from Russia
> 
> 
> Volodymyr Zelensky’s call for calm rubs America the wrong way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.economist.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Why Ukraine’s president is talking down the threat from Russia​Volodymyr Zelensky’s call for calm rubs America the wrong way​
> Blood may soon be spilled in Ukraine, but will it be real or fake? On January 31st authorities arrested a group they said was planning to stage riots in Ukrainian cities. The plot allegedly involved thousands of paid anti-government protesters, smoke bombs and litres of fake blood for the cameras, with medics on the scene to simulate first aid. The goal, explained Ihor Klymenko, Ukraine’s police chief, was to shake the country with viral images of unrest and police brutality.
> 
> Yet two days earlier, Ukraine’s government dismissed leaks from American intelligence officials that Russia was transporting supplies of blood to its troops at the Ukrainian border to treat potential casualties of war. “The purpose of such information is to spread panic and fear in our society,” wrote the deputy defence minister, Hanna Maliar, in a Facebook post. A rhetorical and analytical rift has opened between Ukraine and America. While the Americans warn of an imminent Russian invasion, Volodymyr Zelensky, Ukraine’s president, thinks the gravest threat may come from within.


Biden proved correct to expect a series of major Russian attacks.

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## EAGLE777

World war III started boys

Rest in peace everyone it was nice to meet all of you

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Meengla

tower9 said:


> Russians are proud people. You can't keep humiliating them and expect to get away with it. They are the type of people who would kill themselves just to make sure you got hurt because you insulted them.


I agree with you. And on the other hand, Ukraine, at least its govt, seems like a spineless group of people whose only prop was the Western support. Lots of bark and no bite. I understand if one is a weak country. But to rely so much on foreign powers despite decades of tensions was foolish. Some countries in the world know their place when odds are heavily stacked against them against a giant neighbor. That doesn't mean they should cower but not to bark constantly. What I have seen of the Ukrainian officials in last few weeks was that they were all pumped up about boasting their power to resist while also constantly begging the West for help. 
If lots of Ukrainians get slaughtered and their leaders flee to safety then shame on the leaders and shame on the people to have not seen what was coming. I mean what will it take for the Ukrainian President to publicly say that Ukraine would not be part of ANY alliance against anyone???

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## 925boy

casual said:


> Afghanistan had mountains tho


and UKranians dont have the fighting spirit that Pashtuns have, NOT EVEN CLOSE. Look at them now....just getting beat up and they're watching. smh.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Arulmozhi Varman

dBSPL said:


> NATO
> *N*o *A*ction *T*alk *O*nly
> 
> And Putin knows this very well



Well Turks are part of NATO. Can't you move a resolution for NATO mobilization?


----------



## dBSPL

Falcon29 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496707078760632322


Russia should have carried out these operations more precisely with drones.

But they started a war like an elephant in a glass shop. They hitting cities with ballistic missiles !!!

They started an eternal enmity between the peoples.

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## Beidou2020

tower9 said:


> I admit I didn't see this coming. Holy shit, never thought I'd see a full fledged war in Europe in my lifetime. Looks like the Ukraine may really be absorbed back into Russia.



Putin will never absorb Ukraine into Russia.

This is about toppling the pro-US regime in Kiev.

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## luciferdd

Oldman1 said:


> 1. Biden has told many times to Ukraine and the world that he will not send forces into Ukraine, even to the point of rescuing any American citizens that still remain in Ukraine long after telling them to get the hell out.
> 2. The only thing that the U.S. government can do to help Ukraine was intelligence and supplying arms to inflict casualties without going into possible WW3, and other NATO countries like Germany will not help because Ukraine is not part of NATO.
> 3. We just got out of Afghanistan after 20 years of conflict as well as the continue fighting in Iraq and possible conflict with China on Taiwan, helping Ukraine by sending U.S. forces is just not on the table.


No NATO,No war.


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## lastofthepatriots

Ukrainians want to hold down russians like they were trapped in Chechnya. I think a lot of ruskis will die.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496708579952369665


SilentEagle said:


> World war III started boys
> 
> Rest in peace everyone it was nice to meet all of you


I'm not gonna die without haven got married. No. There is no guarantee I get Hoor-Al-Ayn in Heaven.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## shadowdragon

dBSPL said:


> Russia should have carried out these operations more precisely with drones.
> 
> But they started a war like an elephant in a glass shop. They hitting cities with ballistic missiles !!!
> 
> They started an eternal enmity between the peoples.


They are using shock and awe tactics to break their spirits...

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## dBSPL

Arulmozhi Varman said:


> Well Turks are part of NATO. Can't you move a resolution for NATO mobilization?


I am very sorry for Ukraine. But this is not a war that Turkey can stop.

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## Indos

FuturePAF said:


> So mostly an air war, once the Russians achieve air superiority. Rocket and cruise missile strikes on key Ukrainian government and military installations only? Then where do you see this conflict going?



IMO Putin wants Ukraine to stop waging war with the rebel in Dombas region, more like Putin wants what happen in Crimea will also happen in Dombas region.

So both nations should agree that Dombas region is now under Russian control. Putin could have plan to capture whole Dombas region, the possibility for this according to me is 30 %, but this is the most ambitious plan of Putin according me, he would not go further beyond Dombas region.


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## tower9

Beidou2020 said:


> Putin will never absorb Ukraine into Russia.
> 
> This is about toppling the pro-US regime in Kiev.



He spent one hour ranting about how the Ukraine is not a real country. You think he's just going to leave it as is?

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## Oldman1

luciferdd said:


> No NATO,No war.



LOL! In his recent speeches he doesn't even mention NATO, more like Ukraine exists, yes war! Ukraine is NAZI must be erased! Ukraine only exist because Russa allow it, can unmake it! So on so on as Putin said.


----------



## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496708648009191424

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## lastofthepatriots

dBSPL said:


> I am very sorry for Ukraine. But this is not a war that Turkey can stop.


West was not very sincere with Ukraine from the beginning. There’s not much Turkey can do alone.

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## Pak47

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496709097214853122


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## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496708793056509953

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## Bengal71

SilentEagle said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496638558261723137
> Apparently it seems there were 2 Turkish cargo planes that just landed 2 hours ago at some airport in Ukraine are surrounded by the Russian forces.



Why? Which side Turkey is on? It will be bad for Turkey to go against Russia, just stay neutral.


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## casual

lastofthepatriots said:


> Ukrainians want to hold down russians like they were trapped in Chechnya. I think a lot of ruskis will die.


We'll see how it plays out. Not sure if Putin will occupy.

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## luciferdd

Oldman1 said:


> LOL! In his recent speeches he doesn't even mention NATO, more like Ukraine exists, yes war! Ukraine is NAZI must be erased! Ukraine only exist because Russa allow it, can unmake it! So on so on as Putin said.


Don't you know things begin at Ukraine gov want to joint NATO?You start an incident, and you have to bear the corresponding consequences.


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## IblinI

a huge slap on the face of western countries, especially US/UK, which they promised Ukrainian safety.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## lastofthepatriots

@Rana4pak 

Tu Pakistan’a ya ukraine vich beth’a?


----------



## 8888888888888

Look like the liberation of Ukraine from the Neo nazis has began.

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## Falcon29

*Hypersonic missiles? *

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496708097007624194


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## Meengla

Beidou2020 said:


> Putin will never absorb Ukraine into Russia.
> 
> This is about toppling the pro-US regime in Kiev.



Yes.
And it may surprise you how quickly people's loyalties change!! Not long ago, a pro Russian President was in power. After he was toppled, people still didn't want Ukraine to join NATO. And recently they have been wanting to join NATO. So who knows... I don't see the fight in Ukraine people. I think they will 'go with the flow'!

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496710056343220225

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496695431673397251

Reactions: Like Like:
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## FuturePAF

Indos said:


> IMO Putin wants Ukraine to stop waging war with the rebel in Dombas region, more like Putin wants what happen in Crimea will also happen in Dombas region.
> 
> So both nations should agree that Dombas region is now under Russian control. Putin could have plan to capture whole Dombas region, the possibility for this according to me is 30 %, but this is the most ambitious plan of Putin according me, he would not go further beyond Dombas region.


The Ukrainians can’t accept ceding Donbas and Crimea to Russia, even if it remains in de facto control of the Russians. Looks like we are back in a Cold War on the European continent, because the Belorussians joined in, by letting the Russians pass through.

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## Tomcats

Constant explosions has caused visibility to decrease with smoke filling the air


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496710189210288128


----------



## Oldman1

luciferdd said:


> Don't you know things begin at Ukraine want to joint NATO?



Ukraine has been trying to join NATO for many years and was refused even before Russia took Crimea and started to instigate separatist control over Donetsk and Luhansk. So what changed?


----------



## jamahir

dBSPL said:


> All Ukraine is being bombin right now.
> 
> We are getting some very sad news from some of our friends.
> 
> We couldnt achieve peace. I am really sad.





Wood said:


> Terrible tragedy. I've been to Kiev several times. Sad to think that the places I've been to and the people I've interacted with are bombed 😭



Any war is sad, also because the Ukranian government and the military chose to be Western puppets instead of joining Russia, the Central Asian republics and Belarus and rest of SCO in a non-NATO alliance.

But my best regards for the innocent and sensible Ukranian people including our friend @vostok.



SilentEagle said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496695519854440450
> Ukranian navy pretty much completely wiped out.



The navy people should have rebelled against their government.



lastofthepatriots said:


> Don't be a sheikhjeet, bro.
> 
> My cousin who is half Ukrainian says that ruski ground forces will get fukt. Initial attack favors ruskis, but assyemtric warfare will screw them. It could very well be a blunder for Putin.
> 
> He says that his friends fighting are welcoming the Russians and saying we are waiting for kebab. Meanwhile men and teenagers are literally being abducted by Russian forces in donetsk and luhansk to go fight.



Dream on.



beijingwalker said:


> WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States and its allies will respond in a united and decisive way to "an unprovoked and unjustified attack by Russian military forces" on Ukraine, U.S. President Joe Biden said after blasts were heard in the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv.
> 
> "President (Vladimir) Putin has chosen a premeditated war that will bring a catastrophic loss of life and human suffering," Biden said in a statement.





ejaz007 said:


> US President Joe Biden denounced “unprovoked and unjustified” attack on Ukraine, pledging the world will “hold Russia accountable”.



Yes, according to the Western governments only they have the right to bring catastrophic loss of life and human suffering.



ejaz007 said:


> UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres urges Putin to “stop troops from attacking Ukraine”



In that case the Secretary General should withdraw NATO and its Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood allies from rampaging in Libya and Syria. Enough of wars I say !



Pappa Alpha said:


> Some notify the famous PDF think tank analyst.





jaybird said:


> By the way, Where is 100 elite troops from Britain?



Yes, let's call the representative of the British queen, the famous Mr. @aziqbal.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wergeland

R Wing said:


> NATO's eastward expansion should have stopped where the US promised it would. But, of course, the US kept luring more and more countries around Russia to join NATO, unnecessarily causing a crisis.
> 
> To justify these retarded moves, the US had to paint Russia as some kind of villainous monster dying to invade Europe. Russia just wants to be secure and develop, like pretty much any other country, while controlling its neighborhood. By provoking Russia incessantly, the US has brought things to a stage where Putin really doesn't have many options than to play hardball.
> 
> The biggest tragedy is that this history is hardly ever mentioned by anybody in the West - from commentators and academics to politicians and generals. Just amazing. Their history starts a few years ago - as if their NATO expansion isn't a part of the problem. Not to mention the regime change they pulled in Ukraine to bring it into its own orbit. You can't do stuff like that and not expect a response.
> 
> The US should focus all this energy inward to solve hunger, homelessness, universal healthcare, and other issues. Some of the issues plaguing the US internally are honestly mind-boggling given the trillions it wastes on far-away chess moves.



When you read european newspapers there is not a single article who honestly lays out the causes of this war. I havent found a single one.
And there are tens of thousand of article that brushes Russia as agressive evil, Putin as mad dictator and so on. I mean its almost llke living in a totaliatarian society where there is not room for a even single voice that explains the real problem with NATO expansion on Russian door step.

This is nothing but a self deception.What happens if Russia is actually willing to go even further just in order to survive? What you have done is basically poking a sleeping bear with a knife and expect it to not defend itself.

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## lastofthepatriots

Meengla said:


> Yes.
> And it may surprise you how quickly people's loyalties change!! Not long ago, a pro Russian President was in power. After he was toppled, people still didn't want Ukraine to join NATO. And recently they have been wanting to join NATO. So who knows... I don't see the fight in Ukraine people. I think they will 'go with the flow'!



Ukrainians are tough people. Tougher than Russians, I mean Ukrainians are basically the real Russians. They want revenge from Russians. If you read their history, they were starved to death by the soviets.


----------



## dBSPL

I'm listening to the Ukrainian ambassador to Turkey right now,

"Our soldiers are trying to resist at the border points against Russian land army on the territory of Ukraine."
"We are under an air attack, ballistic missiles are fired at our various cities."

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## Beidou2020

tower9 said:


> He spent one hour ranting about how the Ukraine is not a real country. You think he's just going to leave it as is?



I guarantee you Russia won’t absorb Ukraine.

What gain does Russia have by absorbing all those anti-Russia ethnic Ukrainians into Russia?

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## Rana4pak

lastofthepatriots said:


> @Rana4pak
> 
> Tu Pakistan’a ya ukraine vich beth’a?


Now am in pak but have links in Ukraine.

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## casual

Falcon29 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496708579952369665
> I'm not gonna die without haven got married. No. There is no guarantee I get Hoor-Al-Ayn in Heaven.


Come down, given the difference in military strength, should be over by end of week.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Beast

Pappa Alpha said:


> Some notify the famous PDF think tank analyst.


He purposely get himself ban to avoid humiliation by you..



casual said:


> Come down, given the difference in military strength, should be over by end of week.


Not even a week.

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## Dalit

Arulmozhi Varman said:


> Well Turks are part of NATO. Can't you move a resolution for NATO mobilization?



Why doesn't India do that?

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## Beast

Beidou2020 said:


> I guarantee you Russia won’t absorb Ukraine.


They will hang the pro western politicians and put pro Russia one for new Ukraine government. Putin has give strict order not to hurt any Ukraine civilian except those western puppets.

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## lastofthepatriots

Rana4pak said:


> Now am in pak but have links in Ukraine.



I know. It’s Razpk with new handle. We spoke years ago. Mamay da munda mera ukraini kenda, russi’a di ma yeh deni ussi.

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## Beidou2020

Meengla said:


> Yes.
> And it may surprise you how quickly people's loyalties change!! Not long ago, a pro Russian President was in power. After he was toppled, people still didn't want Ukraine to join NATO. And recently they have been wanting to join NATO. So who knows... I don't see the fight in Ukraine people. I think they will 'go with the flow'!



Many in Ukraine thought Russia is weak previously. 

After this they will hate Russia but respect its power.

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## kuge

Enigma SIG said:


> Alright folks. WW3 is upon us.


not yet until russia leads a confederate force against israel & arab nations... keep watching


----------



## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496711163530424324


----------



## Beidou2020

Falcon29 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496710056343220225



I expect this loser to flee to the West.

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## dBSPL

lol.

We have a slightly used, still under warranty S-400 from its owner. I can leave a phone number for those who are interested.

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## jaybird

Lesson of the day, don't be a cannon fodder for another country.

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## beijingwalker

Enjoy seeing Russia bear slapping Nato left and right

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## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496712143584083970


----------



## Oldman1

R Wing said:


> NATO's eastward expansion should have stopped where the US promised it would. But, of course, the US kept luring more and more countries around Russia to join NATO, unnecessarily causing a crisis.
> 
> To justify these retarded moves, the US had to paint Russia as some kind of villainous monster dying to invade Europe. Russia just wants to be secure and develop, like pretty much any other country, while controlling its neighborhood. By provoking Russia incessantly, the US has brought things to a stage where Putin really doesn't have many options than to play hardball.
> 
> The biggest tragedy is that this history is hardly ever mentioned by anybody in the West - from commentators and academics to politicians and generals. Just amazing. Their history starts a few years ago - as if their NATO expansion isn't a part of the problem. Not to mention the regime change they pulled in Ukraine to bring it into its own orbit. You can't do stuff like that and not expect a response.
> 
> The US should focus all this energy inward to solve hunger, homelessness, universal healthcare, and other issues. Some of the issues plaguing the US internally are honestly mind-boggling given the trillions it wastes on far-away chess moves.



Provoking? More like an excuse for Putin to retake Ukraine, possible even other countries that were part of Russia and satellite states as a secure controlling influence. Cause when those countries are part of NATO, I don't see a massive foreign army at Russia's borders.

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496712401378496520

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## casual

8888888888888 said:


> Look like the liberation of Ukraine from the Neo nazis has began.


They definitely aren't Nazis. Most just wanted a better life and thinks western countries can provide it better then Russia. But they really shouldn't have dismissed Russia's security concerns.


----------



## Dalit

Why are the Indians who are traditionally an ally of Russia so absent? Why is it that India never shows up when going gets tough?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496696591679430656

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## Beidou2020

beijingwalker said:


> Enjoy seeing Russia bear slapping Nato left and right



Ukraine has been knocking on the door of Russia since 2014. Russia just opened the door. Ukraine is not liking the results.

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## Rana4pak

lastofthepatriots said:


> I know. It’s Razpk with new handle. We spoke years ago. Mamay da munda mera ukraini kenda, russi’a di ma yeh deni ussi.


Bro it’s all about domestic conflict between Russian n Ukrainian speaking ppls. Mostly Russia speaking favour Russia instead of ukraine,


----------



## Oldman1

Beast said:


> They will hang the pro western politicians and put pro Russia one for new Ukraine government. Putin has give strict order not to hurt any Ukraine civilian except those western puppets.



Putin gave strict orders not to hurt Ukrainian civilians? More like takeover Ukraine at all costs. Have you not see Putin's actions in the past conflicts? Never hurt a butterfly...


----------



## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496712537487953920


----------



## srshkmr

Enigma SIG said:


> Alright folks. WW3 is upon us.


We had multiple events in 2020 , 2021. I dont think we are there yet


----------



## beijingwalker

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496696591679430656


As expected, it's all over.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Beast

Oldman1 said:


> Putin gave strict orders not to hurt Ukrainian civilians? More like takeover Ukraine at all costs. Have you not see Putin's actions in the past conflicts? Never hurt a butterfly...


Of cos blood thirsty NATO forces has no right to say such thing against Russian forces.

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## dBSPL

beijingwalker said:


> As expected, it's all over.


The entire Ukrainian navy consisted of a few boats under 500 tons. Ukraine lost its navy in 2014, not today.


----------



## Falcon29

casual said:


> Come down, given the difference in military strength, should be over by end of week.


You don't know the cult well enough....


----------



## R Wing

Wergeland said:


> When you read european newspapers there is not a single article who honestly lays out the causes of this war. I havent found a single one.
> And there are tens of thousand of article that brushes Russia as agressive evil, Putin as mad dictator and so on. I mean its almost llke living in a totaliatarian society where there is not room for a even single voice that explains the real problem with NATO expansion on Russian door step.
> 
> This is nothing but a self deception.What happens if Russia is actually willing to go even further just in order to survive? What you have done is basically poking a sleeping bear with a knife and expect it to not defend itself.



Precisely. It's scary.

People like Noam Chomsky (professor emeritus, MIT) in the US have been saying this for decades - the level of indoctrination and thought control in Western democratic societies is INSANE. It's the only tool they have, since society is otherwise free.

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## Oldman1

Beast said:


> Of cos blood thirsty NATO forces has no right to say such thing against Russian forces.



We never said such thing. But Putin's actions in Chechnya and Syria says otherwise. Not to mention all those false flags and assassinations.

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## Beidou2020

Taiwan separatists should be watching this right now. F*** around with China and you will be next!

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## Battlion25

Holy hell


----------



## Beast

Oldman1 said:


> Provoking? More like an excuse for Putin to retake Ukraine, possible even other countries that were part of Russia and satellite states as a secure controlling influence. Cause when those countries are part of NATO, I don't see a massive foreign army at Russia's borders.


Ukraine are rightfully part of Russian Influence. Nothing wrong. Did Russia go to Mexico and try Influence them?


----------



## Falcon29

Beidou2020 said:


> Taiwan separatists should be watching this right now. F*** around with China and you will be next!


I feel like Taiwan would be more prepared than Ukraine

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## R Wing

Oldman1 said:


> Provoking? More like an excuse for Putin to retake Ukraine, possible even other countries that were part of Russia and satellite states as a secure controlling influence. Cause when those countries are part of NATO, I don't see a massive foreign army at Russia's borders.



LOL. The US committed that NATO would not expand. It still expanded. THIS IS THE ROOT CAUSE OF THIS F***** MESS, and the US should own up to it.

Putin warned that it shouldn't expand further - yet the West was clearly courting Ukraine (after initiating regime change) as a future NATO member. Why? 

Fix homelessness, aging infrastructure, and a million other issues in your own country. Stop fucking the world up. Russia has only invaded when it has felt its interests severely threatened by its neighboring states going too far into the Western orbit. It's not rocket science.

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## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496713149101264899

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496714025014644737


----------



## chinasun

Live broadcast to Kiev, Ukraine

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## Dalit

Falcon29 said:


> I feel like Taiwan would be more prepared than Ukraine



Not a chance. Zero contest. I am afraid US proxies are falling one by one. Apart from economic sanctions nothing else will happen.

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## YeBeWarned

So its begin... where is that Poor TTA who thought UK will shoot lasers from their fingers and push the Russians back ? America decided not to send troops to help that was the confirmation Putin was waiting for, the Invasion was imminent.

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## Khan vilatey

so no one wants to talk about the elephant in the room! in a few hours Imran khan will go to lay wreath at the tomb of the unknown soldier in Russia. Then he will have lunch and multiple hours of talks with president Putin. All this will be recorded by the world media. Then he will sign gas contracts with Russia and praise Russia!

then Biden will finally call him to apologize ……..or will sanction Pakistan let’s see …….l stuff Writes itself!

k

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## Oldman1

R Wing said:


> LOL. The US committed that NATO would not expand. It still expanded. THIS IS THE ROOT CAUSE OF THIS F***** MESS, and the US should own up to it.
> 
> Putin warned that it shouldn't expand further - yet the West was clearly courting Ukraine (after initiating regime change) as a future NATO member. Why?
> 
> Fix homelessness, aging infrastructure, and a million other issues in your own country. Stop fucking the world up. Russia has only invaded when it has felt its interests severely threatened by its neighboring states going too far into the Western orbit. It's not rocket science.



No its not the root cause of this mess since many countries like Poland the Baltics are NATO and you don't see Russia invading. This is an excuse as Putin said that he wants to retake Ukraine.



Beast said:


> Ukraine are rightfully part of Russian Influence. Nothing wrong. Did Russia go to Mexico and try Influence them?



So should Russia invade China to maintain influence? Should they invade the Baltics and Poland as well? We going back to Cold War where Russia took over the countries to make satellite states?


----------



## dBSPL

It will be announced today that Russia has been removed from the SWIFT financial system.

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## F-22Raptor

Russia is having to commit about 75% of its military forces for this operation.


----------



## beijingwalker

Kashmiri Rebel said:


> Wow. Ukraine is falling faster than Afghanistan..


Ukrainians and Russians are bascially the same people, close kins, they don't have any motivation to fight

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## Dexon

this will affect world pretty hard actually...

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## R Wing

dBSPL said:


> It will be announced today that Russia has been removed from the SWIFT financial system.



I'm sure Russian planners gamed all contingencies and the payoffs/downsides were deemed worth it.

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## Meengla

Beidou2020 said:


> Taiwan separatists should be watching this right now. F*** around with China and you will be next!


But Taiwan is some distance from China and the sea would help a lot??
Anyway, what's the official Chinese response to this invasion? Anything in the UNSC tonight said by China?


----------



## R Wing

jaybird said:


> Lesson of the day, don't be a cannon fodder for another country.



Thank you. 

The US has created a lot of hate between people who share civilizational values (N vs. S Korea, Russia vs. Ukraine, etc.) They should focus on ending veteran homelessness, lack of universal healthcare, aging infrastructure, rising crime, etc., in their own country before f******* things up in the rest of the world.

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## Elias MC

LIVE: View of Maidan square in Kyiv, Ukraine


----------



## khansaheeb

WinterFangs said:


> All the Pakistani, indian etc pdf members waking up today to this news
> 
> View attachment 818058


Nah, we were expecting it, Putin the fox outsmarted NATO. NATO will take time to build the momentum as they appraise the Russian operation. All the howling , huffing and puffing by NATO let's see if they have any teeth to confront the Russian juggernaut. Europeans will be scared incase they get invaded next. Germans will be specially careful and the French subdued. Poland may muster up a little courage like they did against Germany but will get crushed if they get out of line. NATO will know Ukraine cannot stand up to a direct fight so would support them in an intense Guerrilla war to grind the Russians down. It's a race against time and the outcome will be determined by the speed of the Russian advance and how long the Ukrainian army can hold out. The longer the Ukrainian army hold out the costlier the war will become for the Russians and costlier for the Ukrainian civilians who will face the brunt of the sufferings. 

It would be interesting to know if the Russians will impose a no fly zone and how NATO will respond. It's reality time, as two most technologically advance weapons systems meet face to face.

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496715302930898944

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Oldman1

R Wing said:


> Thank you.
> 
> The US has created a lot of hate between people who share civilizational values (N vs. S Korea, Russia vs. Ukraine, etc.) They should focus on ending veteran homelessness, lack of universal healthcare, aging infrastructure, rising crime, etc., in their own country before f******* things up in the rest of the world.



Oh now you blaming us for what happened when Iraq invaded Kuwait? North Korea invading South? North Vietnam invading South, etc.?


----------



## Dalit

Dexon said:


> View attachment 818067
> 
> this will affect world pretty hard actually...



What should one do with shares etc.? Sell them or weather it out and wait for a big rebound?


----------



## casual

Meengla said:


> But Taiwan is some distance from China and the sea would help a lot??
> Anyway, what's the official Chinese response to this invasion? Anything in the UNSC tonight said by China?


China will condemn Russia.

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## Wergeland

Oldman1 said:


> Provoking? More like an excuse for Putin to retake Ukraine, possible even other countries that were part of Russia and satellite states as a secure controlling influence. Cause when those countries are part of NATO, I don't see a massive foreign army at Russia's borders.



Yeah lets see how America reacts if Russia places nuclear missiles on Cuba or Mexico.

Admit it America has lost its own self control or rather its self restrain.
Its evident from the military adventures, US media and even popular culture.

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## dBSPL

new footages are too bad. Sirens are sounding in the cities. People are running to the subway stations in panic.


----------



## Khan vilatey

so no one wants to talk about the elephant in the room! in a few hours Imran khan will go to lay wreath at the tomb of the unknown soldier in Russia. Then he will have lunch and multiple hours of talks with president Putin. All this will be recorded by the world media. Then he will sign gas contracts with Russia and praise Russia!

then Biden will finally call him to apologize ……..or will sanction Pakistan let’s see …….this stuff Writes itself!

k

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## Battlion25

Putin has taken a page out of Saudi Arabia and MBs no wonder his friends with him. He announced he will only take parts and sack the remaining keeping the Ukrainians hostage in a bufferzone to be slowly chopped off as time passes


----------



## siegecrossbow

Meengla said:


> But Taiwan is some distance from China and the sea would help a lot??
> Anyway, what's the official Chinese response to this invasion? Anything in the UNSC tonight said by China?



China would not support this out of principle (helping parts of a sovereign nation secede) but it will not condemn Russia either.

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## Dalit

Khan vilatey said:


> so no one wants to talk about the elephant in the room! in a few hours Imran khan will go to lay wreath at the tomb of the unknown soldier in Russia. Then he will have lunch and multiple hours of talks with president Putin. All this will be recorded by the world media. Then he will sign gas contracts with Russia and praise Russia!
> 
> then Biden will finally call him to apologize ……..or will sanction Pakistan let’s see …….this stuff Writes itself!
> 
> k



We will see what Biden does against Pakistan. Didn't the Americans try to dismember Pakistan during Afghan occupation? Pakistan did the right thing. Unlike absent India and a panicked America, Pakistan is actually mediating. Pakistan government has said from day one that it seeks to play a mediator role.

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## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496715302930898944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496714078873600001


----------



## Beidou2020

US f***** Ukraine and threw it away like a used condom when Russia decided to strike. Another case of US abandoning its friends. US is now untrustworthy and all its friends and allies can see this.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## M.AsfandYar

lastofthepatriots said:


> Ukrainians want to hold down russians like they were trapped in Chechnya. I think a lot of ruskis will die.


Ukraine is flat, Chechnya was not

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## Beast

Oldman1 said:


> So should Russia invade China to maintain influence? Should they invade the Baltics and Poland as well? We going back to Cold War where Russia took over the countries to make satellite states?


Lol.. it is China having influence on Russia. You are right. They are helping us getting back Motor Sich Factory and kick out those pro western lackey.

Russia and China will combine to invade Japan to rid itself of american influence.

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## beijingwalker

Oldman1 said:


> No its not the root cause of this mess since many countries like Poland the Baltics are NATO and you don't see Russia invading. This is an excuse as Putin said that he wants to retake Ukraine.


How about not giving Russia the "excuse“？Russian just asked for the stop of Nato expansion but Nato just arrogantly refused, Nato asked for this humiliation by themselves.

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## Uzair2118

I feel like we're all avoiding the big question. The PM is in Moscow, any theories? Relative to this war & how it might affect Pakistan.


----------



## khansaheeb

Falcon29 said:


> Does Ukraine have an air force?


It does but not strong enough to take on Russian air force. What planes the Russians are using for what operations would be interesting to know.

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## Oldman1

Wergeland said:


> Yeah lets see how America reacts if Russia places nuclear missiles on Cuba or Mexico.
> 
> Admit it America has lost its own self control or rather its self restrain.
> Its evident from the military adventures, US media and even popular culture.



Russia still has forces in Cuba and sent forces in Venezuela, do you see us invading them? And remember that Russia threaten to invade Sweden and Finland if they join NATO, you think Putin will do it?



beijingwalker said:


> How about not giving Russia the "excuse“？Russian just asked for the stop of Nato expansion but Nato just arrogantly refused, Nato asked for this humiliation by themselves.



Don't need to give an excuse. Accusing Ukraine of being NAZIs is enough, or just because Ukraine exists is enough to invade it. Creating those false flags in the last few weeks tells you something where they need an excuse. Russia could say just Ukrainian president looking at the sky is enough to justify invading it.



Beast said:


> Lol.. it is China having influence on Russia. You are right. They are helping us getting back Motor Sich Factory and kick out those pro western lackey.
> 
> Russia and China will combine to invade Japan to rid itself of american influence.



Well, makes you think Japan should do what Ukraine failed to do, get some nukes.


----------



## Battlion25

Fuking hell and Imran Khan is in Moscow


----------



## Mohsin A

The fact that Putin has gone for Odesa to me means he wants to land lock Ukraine and control the black sea. As Trump said this is genius move and will have the Anglo-Zionists agitated to no end.

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496678510194266112

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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496712564335599626


----------



## dBSPL

Factories, military facilities and airports are hit.

Ukraine's sea connection is cut off.

The Dnieper is the river that divides Ukraine in two. Russia hits all the bridges across the Dnieper river. ( same strategy like was in the second world war.)


It appears that a surrounding operation has been carried out. The region is surrounded from the north (Kharkov) and the south (Maripol) and east.

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## Dalit

Falcon29 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496678510194266112



The major powers are simply saying how it is. Anyone who doubts their resolve needs a wake up call.

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496717764807077891

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## dBSPL

donbass live : https://www.trthaber.com/canli-yayin-izle.html

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## Dexon

Dalit said:


> What should one do with shares etc.? Sell them or weather it out and wait for a big rebound?


It depends on many factors, such as what stock or what assets. But in general, save profits seems wise.


----------



## Battlion25

Is china upto something in Taiwan? Why am I hearing of china? Is there movement of troops there


----------



## kingQamaR

Since 2014. Humpty Dumpty wanting to put the USSR back together


----------



## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496717497562710020


----------



## HydNizam

President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenskyy being evacuated by Turkish Air Force Airbus TUAG600 from Kyiv airport.

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496717924438102018

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## casual

dBSPL said:


> Factories, military facilities and airports are hit.
> 
> Ukraine's sea connection is cut off.
> 
> The Dnieper is the river that divides Ukraine in two. Russia hits all the bridges across the Dnieper river. ( same strategy like was in the second world war.)
> 
> 
> It appears that a surrounding operation has been carried out. The region is surrounded from the north (Kharkov) and the south (Maripol) and east.


Blowing bridges only benefits the weaker power in a conflict. Makes no sense for Russia to do that.



dBSPL said:


> Factories, military facilities and airports are hit.
> 
> Ukraine's sea connection is cut off.
> 
> The Dnieper is the river that divides Ukraine in two. Russia hits all the bridges across the Dnieper river. ( same strategy like was in the second world war.)
> 
> 
> It appears that a surrounding operation has been carried out. The region is surrounded from the north (Kharkov) and the south (Maripol) and east.


Blowing bridges only benefits the weaker power in a conflict. Makes no sense for Russia to do that.


----------



## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496718895931088901


----------



## Salza

Uzair2118 said:


> Relative to this war & how it might affect Pakistan.


Nothing. Pakistan is not that important since entire world media attention is towards Russia invasion for a time being. IK will be back home in the next 14 hours. We went there to reset our ties with Russia and as a confidence building measure which was missing since 80s.


----------



## Tomcats

CNN Livestream showing Belorussian Forces BMP advancing across the border.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496717951872995328


----------



## dBSPL

HydNizam said:


> President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenskyy being evacuated by Turkish Air Force Airbus TUAG600 from Kyiv airport.


What is the source?

There is a horrible psyop going on on Twitter and social media right now. These claims should be viewed with skepticism.

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## Oldman1

Battlion25 said:


> Is china upto something in Taiwan? Why am I hearing of china? Is there movement of troops there



Nothing, its quiet. Otherwise the U.S. would have said something long before the Russian invasion for any possible distraction in Asia where China would launch their own..


----------



## siegecrossbow

khansaheeb said:


> It does but not strong enough to take on Russian air force. What planes the Russians are using for what operations would be interesting to know.



You are talking Soviet era Mig-29/Su-27 vs Su-35/Su-30SM with AWAC support. Not a remotely fair fight.

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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496709239812898821

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2 | Wow Wow:
2


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## Dalit

Dexon said:


> It depends on many factors, such as what stock or what assets. But in general, save profits seems wise.



Predominantly tech shares. I think these will bounce back strongly in the coming period?


----------



## Battlion25

Not sure about this


----------



## Uzair2118

Salza said:


> Nothing. Pakistan is not that important since entire world media attention is towards Russia invasion for a time being. IK will be back home in the next 14 hours. We went there to reset our ties with Russia and as a confidence building measure which was missing since 80s.


Possible, yet unlikely.


----------



## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496719131550302214


----------



## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496718795150401539

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Beast

Oldman1 said:


> We never said such thing. But Putin's actions in Chechnya and Syria says otherwise. Not to mention all those false flags and assassinations.


You just say it, everybody can see a rapist and murderer try lecture Russia about human right and righteous.

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## HydNizam




----------



## dBSPL

HydNizam said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496709239812898821


Only one Turkish plane went to Kiev last night. The other Plane had landed to Odeasa. And these planes returned.


----------



## Oldman1

Beast said:


> You just say it, everybody can see a rapist and murderer try lecture Russia about human right and righteous.


LOL! I never said we were angels and never have killed a civilian in our history.


----------



## Beast

dBSPL said:


> What is the source?
> 
> There is a horrible psyop going on on Twitter and social media right now. These claims should be viewed with skepticism.


This is common sense. Is he going to stay in Ukraine and waiting for Putin to trial and hang him? He is just a pro western cowards.

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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496716168920547331

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## Beidou2020

As I said, this is an operation to topple the pro-US regime in Kiev.

Disarm the military and topple the regime.

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## Tamerlane

Khan vilatey said:


> so no one wants to talk about the elephant in the room! in a few hours Imran khan will go to lay wreath at the tomb of the unknown soldier in Russia. Then he will have lunch and multiple hours of talks with president Putin. All this will be recorded by the world media. Then he will sign gas contracts with Russia and praise Russia!
> 
> then Biden will finally call him to apologize ……..or will sanction Pakistan let’s see …….this stuff Writes itself!
> 
> k



Poor Imran Khan. I hope Pakistan doesn’t become collateral damage. The Anglo-Zionists will be in a rage and throwing sanctions left right and center. When they see Imran Khan hobnobbing with Hitler Putin they might be tempted to throw some sanctions his way as well.


----------



## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496717958080610310


----------



## Azog

Really sad to see this


----------



## Beast

HydNizam said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496716168920547331

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Beidou2020

Beast said:


> This is common sense. Is he going to stay in Ukraine and waiting for Putin to trial and hang him? He is just a pro western cowards.



Exactly. Zelensky has already fled Ukraine or is finding a way to flee Ukraine. He ain’t staying in Ukraine.

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## Dalit

Tamerlane said:


> Poor Imran Khan. I hope Pakistan doesn’t become collateral damage. The Anglo-Zionists will be in a rage and throwing sanctions left right and center. When they see Imran Khan hobnobbing with Hitler Putin they might be tempted to throw some sanctions his way as well.



LOL we survived much worse. Just have a good look at Afghanistan nexus. India, US and NATO ganged up against Pakistan for 2 decades.

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496720303950553091

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Arulmozhi Varman

dBSPL said:


> I am very sorry for Ukraine. But this is not a war that Turkey can stop.



I did not ask Turkey to go for the Defence of Ukraine. NATO can. As NATO member, turkey can start the ball rolling for the mobilization of NATO. Put


----------



## Oldman1

Beidou2020 said:


> As I said, this is an operation to topple the pro-US regime in Kiev.
> 
> Disarm the military and topple the regime.


Topple? No this about taking and absorbing Ukraine into Russia.


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496721517677359104


----------



## Bengal71

tower9 said:


> He spent one hour ranting about how the Ukraine is not a real country. You think he's just going to leave it as is?





Beidou2020 said:


> Putin will never absorb Ukraine into Russia.
> 
> This is about toppling the pro-US regime in Kiev.





Indos said:


> IMO Putin wants Ukraine to stop waging war with the rebel in Dombas region, more like Putin wants what happen in Crimea will also happen in Dombas region.
> 
> So both nations should agree that Dombas region is now under Russian control. Putin could have plan to capture whole Dombas region, the possibility for this according to me is 30 %, but this is the most ambitious plan of Putin according me, he would not go further beyond Dombas region.





tower9 said:


> He spent one hour ranting about how the Ukraine is not a real country. You think he's just going to leave it as is?



I think most likely he wants to capture whole of Ukraine. Then he will install a puppet regime or annex Ukraine. Not sure which one they will do.


----------



## Beidou2020

Falcon29 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496720303950553091


Wow

Russia wasn’t messing with all those warnings.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vapnope

Arulmozhi Varman said:


> I did not ask Turkey to go for the Defence of Ukraine. NATO can. As NATO member, turkey can start the ball rolling for the mobilization of NATO. Put


Why Turkey? Why not Greece?


----------



## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496721921530081284


----------



## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496721223652360192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496721437809422337

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496722654904074240


----------



## Vapnope

Bengal71 said:


> I think most likely he wants to capture whole of Ukraine. Then he will install a puppet regime or annex Ukraine. Not sure which one they will do


Negative. Only the strategic areas and then bring them on the negotiation table.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Oh shit it's happening


----------



## Arulmozhi Varman

Dalit said:


> Why doesn't India do that?



Cos india has no locus standi on the matter. Nor India benefits from any move either from the West or the east. We simply dont want any war. India may have tried in earnest to talk Russia out of this, but Putin is not going to listen on this issue.


----------



## Dalit

Arulmozhi Varman said:


> I did not ask Turkey to go for the Defence of Ukraine. NATO can. As NATO member, turkey can start the ball rolling for the mobilization of NATO. Put



Why doesn't India step forward and mobilise NATO?



Arulmozhi Varman said:


> Cos india has no locus standi on the matter. Nor India benefits from any move either from the West or the east. We simply dont want any war. India may have tried in earnest to talk Russia out of this, but Putin is not going to listen on this issue.



You only yip yap. So many suggestions. So much hot air. You always use others for your own objective.

Your country India hasn't said a word on Russian Ukrainian crisis, but here you are advising Turkey to do this and that.

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## Bengal71

Vapnope said:


> Negative. Only the strategic areas and then bring them on the negotiation table.



Which strategic areas?


----------



## Mrc

Phul support shir

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496723380258623491


----------



## F-22Raptor

Seeing reports that the Ukrainian Air Fotce has shot down a Russian aircraft.


----------



## HydNizam



Reactions: Like Like:
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## Tomcats

Tamerlane said:


> Poor Imran Khan. I hope Pakistan doesn’t become collateral damage.


He should've realized this, Putin deliberately put Pakistan in this position. Despite this Imran Khan got played like a fiddle. There was 0 need to head to Moscow at such a sensitive time.

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## SD 10

Falcon29 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496683512920956928
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496686980255604738
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496685029229047808


where are the EU CUCKS?

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496723699705303044

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## Dalit

Tomcats said:


> He should've realized this, Putin deliberately put Pakistan in this position. Despite this Imran Khan got played like a fiddle. There was 0 need to head to Moscow at such a sensitive time.



This is exactly the time to go to Russia and do the right thing.

1. PM Imran Khan should mediate to defuse tension.
2. Pakistan should get deals signed and advance relations with Russia.

Have you read Indian and Pakistani libturd media? Our enemies are confused.

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## kingQamaR

No. Much, much worse. Crimea was already Russian. This is something very different, and very, very much worse.



Battlion25 said:


> Not sure about this



No. Much, much worse. Crimea was already Russian. This is something very different, and very, very much worse.


----------



## Zarvan

If Europe and US gets directly involved it's pretty much world war III and it won't end well for Russia. Even in the long run it would be turned into an insurgency and Russia will get stuck.


----------



## SD 10

SilentEagle said:


> According to some Turkish twitter sources PM of Ukraine Zelensky has fled the country.


obviously the rat will flee!


----------



## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496721733243572224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496723380258623491


----------



## Dalit

Zarvan said:


> If Europe and US gets directly involved it's pretty much world war III and it won't end well for Russia. Even in the long run it would be turned into an insurgency and Russia will get stuck.



This will be swift and decisive. You think the Russians didn't plan this beforehand? The Russians won't occupy Ukraine. This is an operation to remove pro US and EU elements from Ukraine.

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## Tomcats

Dalit said:


> 1. PM Imran Khan should mediate to defuse tension.
> 2. Pakistan should get deals signed and advance relations.


Defuse tensions how exactly? The Russians have a plan and they have executed it with negotiations being void other than a complete Ukrainian surrender. Russia is not going to listen to whatever Pakistan has to say.
Those deals could have been signed later, at the end of the day Putin put us in this position knowingly, but yeah sure he is a reliable guy...

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## SD 10

tower9 said:


> I admit I didn't see this coming. Holy shit, never thought I'd see a full fledged war in Europe in my lifetime. Looks like the Ukraine may really be absorbed back into Russia.


the crossed the red line, it was expected!

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## Tomcats

Dalit said:


> You think the Russians didn't plan this beforehand?


See you acknowledge this, how come we are not calling them out for this? Our visit was also pre-planned and they deliberately put us in this position.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496724987742461954

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## Areesh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496703782851387392

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Dalit

Tomcats said:


> Defuse tensions how exactly? The Russians have a plan and they have executed it with negotiations being void other than a complete Ukrainian surrender. Russia is not going to listen to whatever Pakistan has to say.
> Those deals could have been signed later, at the end of the day Putin put us in this position knowingly, but yeah sure he is a reliable guy...



Pakistan will play its role. Whatever Russia does is obviously their own choice. The world won't be able to point fingers at Pakistan because our stance will be reiterated in Russia.

Of course we will sign deals with Russia. Improve our relations. We want more trade and gas.


----------



## Zarvan

Dalit said:


> This will be swift and decisive. You think the Russians didn't plan this beforehand? The Russians won't occupy Ukraine. This is an operation to remove pro US and EU elements from Ukraine.


This won't work. Entire population of Ukraine has turned against Russia. So yes I think Putin didn't thought this through and will turn really bad for Russia in both short and long run.

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## Dalit

Tomcats said:


> See you acknowledge this, how come we are not calling them out for this? Our visit was also pre-planned and they deliberately put us in this position.



We are there to mediate and sign deals.


----------



## SD 10

nah, there will be no involvement from Eu or usa, you can see that since weeks........ At best some more mighty sanctions thats it!

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## khansaheeb

dBSPL said:


> Only one Turkish plane went to Kiev last night. The other Plane had landed to Odeasa. And these planes returned.


What did the Turks drop off?


----------



## dBSPL

Arulmozhi Varman said:


> I did not ask Turkey to go for the Defence of Ukraine. NATO can. As NATO member, turkey can start the ball rolling for the mobilization of NATO. Put


Dude, that's the long story. Let's talk about this sometime in a calmer period. NATO attempted a military coup in Turkey in 2016. Turkey is the eastern flank of NATO and 10 years of US foreign policy is pure stupidity.

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## kingQamaR

Belorussian troops are attacking Ukraine to now


----------



## Dalit

Zarvan said:


> This won't work. Entire population of Ukraine has turned against Russia. So yes I think Putin didn't thought this through and will turn really bad for Russia in both short and long run.



Russia won't sit in Ukraine unlike papa America who always occupies nations for decades. This is an operation. Not an occupation. Putin knows what he is doing. This is a window of opportunity and he has grabbed the moment to rid Ukraine from US/EU influence.

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## Oldman1

Beidou2020 said:


> Wow
> 
> Russia wasn’t messing with all those warnings.


Belarus has joined the invasion as well.

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## Salza

Indos said:


> Even USSR cannot hold Afghanistan, let alone Ukraine which is much powerful, there will be insurgency and supplied armed by US and NATO countries.
> 
> It is suicide to capture whole big nation like Ukraine


Didn't happened anything like that in Crimea.


----------



## dBSPL

khansaheeb said:


> What did the Turks drop off?


Diplomat evac.

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## Oldman1

Dalit said:


> Russia won't sit in Ukraine unlike papa America who always occupies nations for decades. This is an operation. Not an occupation.


Its an absorption.


----------



## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496725856785674241

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## Dalit

Oldman1 said:


> Its an absorption.



It is getting rid of Uncle Sam and EU.

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## HydNizam

View attachment 818072

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496717506635079682

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## dBSPL

Falcon29 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496725856785674241


This may be a bit of an exaggeration. There's a lot of misinformation out there. I only saw one on telegram channels.

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## Indos

Salza said:


> Didn't happened anything like that in Crimea.


Crimea is Russian since before USSR is formed, too much strategic as well for Russian. Ukraine just let the region under Russian. While invading whole Ukraine is different story.

I said Russia wants Ukraine take the same policy to Dombas region where Ukraine will likely to take in order not to escalate the war further


----------



## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496726851464609796


----------



## Oldman1

Dalit said:


> It is getting rid of Uncle Sam and EU.


Yeah ok, well he can also do that against the Baltics and Poland as well as Sweden and Finland. Maybe invade Finland and Poland again to get rid of the influence.


----------



## Tomcats

Dalit said:


> Pakistan will play its role. Whatever Russia does is obviously their own choice. The world won't be able to point fingers at Pakistan because our stance will be reiterated in Russia.
> 
> Of course we will sign deals with Russia. Improve our relations. We want more trade and gas.


An ambiguous and unspecified role as always. In reality it is little to none, if they are i'm all ears. Also no our stance is not reiterated by Russia as per our Foreign Office, at the end of the day we are also losing another good partner both militarily and economically.


----------



## SD 10

Falcon29 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496725856785674241


yeah lets make it 10 !!!  following the indian model!


----------



## lastofthepatriots

EU pussies watching. EU is the most worthless conglomerate of nations on the entire earth. Putin is shoving his balls in their face and laughing.


----------



## Falcon29

dBSPL said:


> This may be a bit of an exaggeration. There's a lot of misinformation out there. I only saw one on telegram channels.


Likely trying to raise morale of troops/citizens.

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## AgnosticIndian

I was wondering on the significance. strange if true.

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## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496724987742461954


----------



## SD 10

FuturePAF said:


> Looks like it’s full scale war?
> 
> Considering how it looks, should PM Khan cut short the visit and head home? What is the protocol when a neutral party’s leader is visiting a country when war starts between the host and another nation?


no point in cutting short the visit........ We dontr give a shit about eu so let russia bang them , sign some deal and than get back home!


----------



## Dalit

Oldman1 said:


> Yeah ok, well he can also do that against the Baltics and Poland as well as Sweden and Finland. Maybe invade Finland and Poland again to get rid of the influence.



Poland and Finland aren't next door like Ukraine. Your country has placed missiles next door to Russia. When you provoke you shouldn't complain about a reaction.

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## Reichsmarschall

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496703226791743493

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## Salza

Indos said:


> While invading whole Ukraine is different story.


I don't think so they will invade the whole country but frankly speaking, I ain't know much about Russia and Ukraine conflict. Why Russia attacked Ukraine, will be nice if someone quickly summarize the reason(s). Perhaps 4-5 lines will do it.


----------



## YeBeWarned

Finally Russians learn from America, Invasion NOOOOOOOOOOOO, Peacekeeping Operation YESSSSSSSSSSSS, anyone remember the pretext EU and America give before invading and bombing the entire ME ? Liberation , Democracy , etc... Yes the war is bad but Russia today did exact same thing America did for last 2 decades, maybe that is why they did not interfere in the conflict.

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## Tomcats

AgnosticIndian said:


> I was wondering on the significance. strange if true.
> View attachment 818075


No, Intelligence given 2 or 3 days back were solid there was no suckering. Ukraine also mobilized too, everyone knew what was going to happen. I guess you could say perhaps it occurred quicker than expected


----------



## Scorpio_26

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496727071380365315


----------



## Oom

SuvarnaTeja said:


> The war that US , UK and NATO have been predicting is about to start in the next few hours on 21st Feb, 2022.
> 
> You may ask why this date?
> 
> No this is not when Beijing Olympics are closing as leaders of the Ukraine and NATO wants you to believe.
> 
> This is the date when Munich Security Conference 2022 ends where Ukraine and NATO has formally agreed to the plan of invading Russia.


What are you high on? Ukraine invade Russia? That’s like asking a mouse to rape a elephant


----------



## SD 10

dBSPL said:


> Markets are collapsing. RIP to btc hodlers


glad it crashes, now the pc users can get some damn graphic cards!

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## Reichsmarschall

I think it's time Immy came back home.

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## Oldman1

Dalit said:


> Poland and Finland aren't next door like Ukraine. Your country has placed missiles next door to Russia. When you provoke you shouldn't complain about a reaction.


LOL! Look at the NATO countries that are next door to Russia buddy.


----------



## Zarvan

Dalit said:


> Russia won't sit in Ukraine unlike papa America who always occupies nations for decades. This is an operation. Not an occupation. Putin knows what he is doing. This is a window of opportunity and he has grabbed the moment to rid Ukraine from US/EU influence.


That is my point. They can't change anything without staying there for decades. Short term operation won't do anything. The moment Russia gets out Ukraine will become part of NATO.


----------



## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496728584836489224


----------



## Dalit

Tomcats said:


> An ambiguous and unspecified role as always. In reality it is little to none, if they are i'm all ears. Also no our stance is not reiterated by Russia as per our Foreign Office, at the end of the day we are also losing another good partner both militarily and economically.



What you want is an old and outdated blueprint. Welcome to the new realities of this day and age. Deal with the fact that Russia and China are assertive. Deal with the fact that Russia and China won't be bullied. Deal with the fact that the world order is changed. Deal with the fact that Pakistan will choose region over appeasment. The timing is perfect. Pakistan is at the right place at the right time.

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## Tomcats

Salza said:


> I don't think so they will invade the whole country but frankly speaking, I ain't know much about Russia and Ukraine conflict. Why Russia attacked Ukraine, will be nice if someone quickly summarize the reason(s). Perhaps 4-5 lines will do it.


In summation their main goal is the capitulation of Ukraine, which means invasion of territory east of the Dnepr. Occupation is a different thing which will yet to be seen, in my opinion it will be temporary as regime change is the main goal at the moment.


----------



## Dalit

Zarvan said:


> That is my point. They can't change anything without staying there for decades. Short term operation won't do anything. The moment Russia gets out Ukraine will become part of NATO.



Impossible when the US/NATO henchmen are removed.

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## Scorpio_26

Russia has really started a War.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496727793974996995

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496729136844345344

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496729049103798275

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## dBSPL

Oldman1 said:


> LOL! Look at the NATO countries that are next door to Russia buddy.


Normally, they usually dnt put us on these maps. It's really surprising. When Russia started to invade Ukraine, we became 'European' again.

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## SD 10

Indos said:


> Even USSR cannot hold Afghanistan, let alone Ukraine which is much powerful, there will be insurgency and supplied armed by US and NATO countries.
> 
> It is suicide to capture whole big nation like Ukraine


i wonder who made you a think tank analyst bro?

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## ziaulislam

I was wrong 
I thought putin will just take the break away region but no he want a regime change

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## Dalit

Reichsmarschall said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496703226791743493



Sure. RSS pandit has turned anti-Russia.


----------



## Indos

Bengal71 said:


> I think most likely he wants to capture whole of Ukraine. Then he will install a puppet regime or annex Ukraine. Not sure which one they will do.



you can do it for small nation, but unlikely will be a good strategy for large nation as big as Ukraine, Afghan and Vietnam war have already been a lessons 



AgnosticIndian said:


> I was wondering on the significance. strange if true.
> View attachment 818075



Indians better pray the war to be short one, high energy and commodity prices will likely be a quite negative impact for Indian economy.

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## R Wing

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496721517677359104



Russian system engaging Russian warplanes. What a world.

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## Oldman1

ziaulislam said:


> I was wrong
> I thought putin will just take the break away region but no he want a regime change


He wants the whole country.


----------



## PakAlp

Unbelievable, the full invasion of Ukraine was not expected, the most expected was to send troops to the rebel held areas and then overtaking all Russia majority areas and make Ukraine a landlocked country and alot weaker. Putin plan is to destroy all Ukrainian military, remove the regime and possibly bring a pro Russia regime but since majority population is anti russia i don't see how that will happen. 

Best possible scenario is to annex 25% of Ukraine with majority Russia speaking population and leave a weaker Ukraine.

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496729034746699784


----------



## Dalit

dBSPL said:


> Normally, they usually dnt put us on these maps. It's really surprising. When Russia started to invade Ukraine, we became 'European' again.



That is what they always do. They turn you into a friend and an ally when they need you most.

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496728317969539076

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## dBSPL

PakAlp said:


> leave a weaker Ukraine.


weaker... but with eternal enmity

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## DocEinstein

SD 10 said:


> glad it crashes, now the pc users can get some damn graphic cards!


I had to wait 3 weeks to get my hands on an RTX 3080 and had to pay $1200...

Reactions: Like Like:
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## R Wing

Areesh said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496703782851387392



Facts.


----------



## Dalit

Oldman1 said:


> He wants the whole country.



No he doesn't. This is about weakening US/EU nexus in Ukraine.


----------



## IblinI

SD 10 said:


> i wonder who made you a think tank analyst bro?


In China, we called that “刻舟求剑”, living in the past and refused to move on.


----------



## Vapnope

Bengal71 said:


> Which strategic areas?


Donbass.


----------



## Oldman1

Dalit said:


> No he doesn't.


----------



## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496729260446437377

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496729049103798275


----------



## YeBeWarned

I am damn sure Chinese will be observing this conflict and taking notes.


----------



## Salza

jaybird said:


> I hope the people in Taiwan are watching the Ukraine war right now. When you keep pushing the red line, war will happen and is not going to be pretty for all sides. And no one will come to save you.
> 
> By the way, Where is 100 elite troops from Britain?


 are in quarantine because of covid protocols

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## Gripen9

SD 10 said:


> where are the EU CUCKS?


Yeah that aziziqbal guy?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## dBSPL

Dalit said:


> That is what they always do. They turn you into a friend and an ally when they need you most.


Abi.... I just noticed the Göztepe logo. 
We will stay in the league!

And to hell with the US.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vapnope

SD 10 said:


> i wonder who made you a think tank analyst bro?


He is spot on. Russia is not gonna capture all of Ukraine.

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## Enigma SIG

Video of first shot fired captured!









Footage captures first shot at the Russian / Ukrainian border! - Funny


120 points • 10 comments




9gag.com


----------



## R Wing

Ukraine would have been down and out much sooner had it not been for American help in the form of NSA technologies, SIGINT, etc. The heatmaps of US SIGINT/EW planes around Russia's borders (including from deep within Ukraine) were staggering over the past week or two. A communication / power system breakdown through a cyber attack or other jamming by Russia would have really made quick work of Ukraine --- not that it won't be quick now.


----------



## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496730690414854144


----------



## Scorpio_26

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496731004249247748


----------



## Zarvan

Dalit said:


> Impossible when the US/NATO henchmen are removed.


Russia can't place their guy and Ukrainians will let him rule after Russian soldiers are out. Not happening.


----------



## AgnosticIndian

Indos said:


> Indians better pray the war to be short one, high energy and commodity prices will likely be a quite negative impact for Indian economy.


true. that applies for most oil importing countries. 
modern wars are usually short, specially ones that start with rapid missile attacks. hopefully it won't turn into a slogfest, or worse, a WW.


----------



## Dalit

dBSPL said:


> Abi.... I just noticed the Göztepe logo.
> We will stay in the league!
> 
> And to hell with the US.



InshAllah bro. I am in Izmir right now. I saw the Galatasaray Göztepe match a few days ago. I just bought a house in Izmir.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496729672649949184


----------



## dBSPL

Dalit said:


> InshAllah bro. I am in Izmir right now. I saw the Galatasaray Göztepe match a few days ago. I just bought a house in Izmir.


I am in Trabzon. But we love Göztepe. Take care of Izmir, we will come with the championship trophy in 1 month.

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## NA71

Dalit said:


> InshAllah bro. I am in Izmir right now. I saw the Galatasaray Göztepe match a few days ago. I just bought a house in Izmir.


wao..beautiful place.


----------



## Dalit

Zarvan said:


> Russia can't place their guy and Ukrainians will let him rule after Russian soldiers are out. Not happening.



Probably. Russia is making a point here. Russia won't tolerate meddling in its backyard. The US/EU will have to come up with some form of settlement which is acceptable to all sides. The time of empowering poodles is over.

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## IblinI

aziqbal said:


> each SSBN can turn Russia and China into a glass desert where nothing with grow for next 10,000 years

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## NA71

if war has started ...the meeting between IK & Putin (in 3hrs from now) would be meaningless ....

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Dalit

dBSPL said:


> I am in Trabzon. But we love Göztepe. Take care of Izmir, we will come with the championship trophy in 1 month.



InshAllah. I will be flying on Friday back to Holland. I will be back in July/August with family to our new home.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Bengal71

Vapnope said:


> Donbass.



Nah, if that was the case there is no reason to atack Kyic and capture Odessa. They could simply do a referendum like Crimea and annex it.


----------



## Oldman1

Dalit said:


> Probably. Russia is making a point here. Russia won't tolerate meddling in its backyard. The US/EU will have to come to some form of settlement which is acceptable to all sides. The time of empowering poodles is over.


A settlement? That went out the window with the invasion of Ukraine. You bet your *** you going to see IRBMs and ground launch cruise missiles going to be based in Eastern Europe for sure. And other countries in Europe be scrambling to boost their defense against Russia.


----------



## Riz

Europeans na saly bear ko monkey samjh rakha tha

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496729663464427522


----------



## Bengal71

Indos said:


> you can do it for small nation, but unlikely will be a good strategy for large nation as big as Ukraine, Afghan and Vietnam war have already been a lessons
> 
> 
> 
> Indians better pray the war to be short one, high energy and commodity prices will likely be a quite negative impact for Indian economy.



Afghan and Vietnam were foreign nations, so they fought. Ukraine has long Russian history and close to home. Russia doesn't need to travel half the world to fight them. The minimum Russia will do is install a puppet regime but if Putin wants to solve the security issue permanently it's better to annex it. If they take Donetsk and Luhansk only, they will get the same amount of sanctions if they take whole Ukraine.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Dalit

Oldman1 said:


> A settlement? That went out the window with the invasion of Ukraine. You bet your *** you going to see IRBMs and ground launch cruise missiles going to be based in Eastern Europe for sure. And other countries in Europe be scrambling to boost their defense against Russia.



Do it, but don't expect Russia to sit idle. Remember that the US is the real agitator here. You placed missiles in Ukraine. If you were expecting no reaction from Russia you were sorely wrong about that.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## SD 10

DocEinstein said:


> I had to wait 3 weeks to get my hands on an RTX 3080 and had to pay $1200...


I got my 3090 after 4 months of booking........ for 2400$


----------



## EAGLE777

dBSPL said:


> I am in Trabzon. But we love Göztepe. Take care of Izmir, we will come with the championship trophy in 1 month.


that team is a real pain in the a** i hate them 😄


----------



## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496732452194484225

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496729252795928578


----------



## Oldman1

Dalit said:


> Do it, but don't expect Russia to sit idle. Remember that the US is the real agitator here. You placed missiles in Ukraine.


Its been done before when we had Pershing missiles in Europe which forced Russia to the INF Treaty. What proof you have of missiles in Ukraine? You talking about Javelins? Those are anti tank missiles, not strategic ballistic missiles.


----------



## jamahir

Indos said:


> Even USSR cannot hold Afghanistan, let alone Ukraine which is much powerful, there will be insurgency and supplied armed by US and NATO countries.
> 
> It is suicide to capture whole big nation like Ukraine



Indos my friend, it is a mythology that the so-called Afghan Mujahideen, made up of criminals from all over including Osama bin Laden and assisted by the Western governments and their allied government in this including China, ever defeated the USSR. All that the fake mujahideen succeeded was in destroying Afghanistan which under the Afghan Communists was making progress in human terms including having a human in space aboard a USSR space station and this man, Abdul Ahad Momand, was only the second South Asian in space after India's Rakesh Sharma just a few years before.  The death of two million Afghans in the Afghan war since the late 1970s lies solely on the heads of Western governments, the then Pakistani government of Zia ul Haq, then China and the so-called mujahideen.


----------



## kankan326

I never thought I'm the clown here. 没想到小丑竟是我自己


----------



## PaklovesTurkiye

*Day 1*: Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan landed in Moscow.

*Day 2*: War begins in that region.
Dear Pakistani Establishment, please take note

Reactions: Like Like:
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## EAGLE777

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> *Day 1*: Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan landed in Moscow.
> 
> *Day 2*: War begins in that region.
> Dear Pakistani Establishment, please take note


great timing

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----------



## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496733828014125056

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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496733912906838017

Reactions: Like Like:
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## SIPRA

NA71 said:


> if war has started ...the meeting between IK & Putin (in 3hrs from now) would be meaningless ....



No. IK might give him very valuable advice.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## SD 10

IblinI said:


> In China, we called that “刻舟求剑”, living in the past and refused to move on.


For me, they started writing long posts and calling themselves "Analyst" and having no sense of reality whatsoever....... First they said the might NATO will come if Russia invades, than they move it to special forces training Ukrainians, than they further tracked back to providing arms to Ukraine, just a few days ago that tiny Island called UK was bitching and flying planes like its the 1800, and when shit hits the fan and now they are nowhere, hiding in their island somewhere..... This is the bloody reality and at best they will try to save the rest of Europe and even that is highly debatable. 
It like these people have no brain capacity to understand shits and posting like kids that the might US will do this or that!!!!! Bidden just said his "prayers" are with Ukraine     whatever the f*** that means........................................................

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## Vapnope

Bengal71 said:


> Nah, if that was the case there is no reason to atack Kyic and capture Odessa. They could simply do a referendum like Crimea and annex it.


Kyic and Odessa would be returned. These are for the negotiations only. Just my opinion.


----------



## Dalit

Oldman1 said:


> Its been done before when we had Pershing missiles in Europe which forced Russia to the INF Treaty. What proof you have of missiles in Ukraine? You talking about Javelins? Those are anti tank missiles, not strategic ballistic missiles.



How about Tomahawk cruise missiles?


----------



## SD 10

Gripen9 said:


> Yeah that aziziqbal guy?


yeah him, but there were other UK and Europeans cheeerleaders too!   



Vapnope said:


> He is spot on. Russia is not gonna capture all of Ukraine.


sure.


----------



## hamilcar of carthage

Falcon29 said:


> You had a Ukrainian cousin this whole time? 😮
> 
> There probably is truth to what he's saying. Ukraine can probably fight back but not much to counter ballistic missiles and cross border shelling. It sound like Russia want to occupy all of Ukraine, though. We'll see.
> 
> If this ends up as blunder for Russia then I will sponsor a Russian refugee.


Charity begins at home, I guess.


----------



## INS_Vikrant

Indos said:


> Indians better pray the war to be short one, high energy and commodity prices will likely be a quite negative impact for Indian economy.



This is true for all oil importing countries


----------



## IblinI

SD 10 said:


> For me, they started writing long posts and calling themselves "Analyst" and having no sense of reality whatsoever....... First they said the might NATO will come if Russia invades, than they move it to special forces training Ukrainians, than they further tracked back to providing arms to Ukraine, just a few days ago that tiny Island called UK was bitching and flying planes like its the 1800, and when shit hits the fan and now they are nowhere, hiding in their island somewhere..... This is the bloody reality and at best they will try to save the rest of Europe and even that is highly debatable.
> It like these people have no brain capacity to understand shits and posting like kids that the might US will do this or that!!!!! Bidden just said his "prayers" are with Ukraine     whatever the f*** that means........................................................


Holding hands busy praying for Ukrainian right now.

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## Bengal71

Vapnope said:


> Kyic and Odessa would be returned. These are for the negotiations only. Just my opinion.



My opinion I expressed and respect yours. Let's see what happens.

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## zee34567

ukarine is very brave nation although they are small in numbers but they are always ready to fight for their country


----------



## Indos

Bengal71 said:


> Afghan and Vietnam were foreign nations, so they fought. Ukraine has long Russian history and close to home. Russia doesn't need to travel half the world to fight them. The minimum Russia will do is install a puppet regime but if Putin wants to solve the security issue permanently it's better to annex it. If they take Donetsk and Luhansk only, they will get the same amount of sanctions if they take whole Ukraine.



Do you think it is easy to install puppet regime ? insurgency will bring Russian economy down.

No, it will not be the same sanction if they capture only Dombas region, so far the sanction is still minimal.

There is pro Russian people in Ukraine, we know that but what happen in Crimea and Donbas I belive will push many of them to go against Russia. No sane people wants their country being invaded and support the invader


----------



## Azog

such a bad time for IK to meet Putin right now


----------



## NA71

SIPRA said:


> No. IK might give him very valuable advice.


Boss ...IK should have avoided this trip....he would be seen standing with a villain ...bad timing

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## jaybird

zee34567 said:


> ukarine is very brave nation although they are small in numbers but they are always ready to fight for their country



We heard you mr.Zelenskyy! Welcome to the forum.

Reactions: Love Love:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## Bengal71

SD 10 said:


> where are the EU CUCKS?





Indos said:


> Do you think it is easy to install puppet regime ? insurgency will bring Russian economy down.
> 
> No, it will not be the same sanction if they capture only Dombas region, so far the sanction is still minimal.
> 
> There is pro Russian people in Ukraine, we know that but what happen in Crimea and Donbas I belive will push many of them to go against Russia. No sane people wants their country being invaded and support the invader



Let's see what happens.


----------



## Oldman1

Dalit said:


> How about Tomahawk cruise missiles?


Do you see any in Ukraine?


----------



## INS_Vikrant

@mods can you plz unban aziqbal right now, would like to see his thoughts on UKs inaction against Russia

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Dalit

Oldman1 said:


> Do you see any in Ukraine?



Doesn't the US have the intentions of placing them?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496736526033723393

Ukraine is outgunned but they are definitely inflicting casualties.


----------



## SD 10

zee34567 said:


> ukarine is very brave nation although they are small in numbers but they are always ready to fight for their country


I see you @aziziqbal , Come out now

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496736340028841986

Reactions: Sad Sad:
1


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## Reichmarshal

jamahir said:


> Indos my friend, it is a mythology that the so-called Afghan Mujahideen, made up of criminals from all over including Osama bin Laden and assisted by the Western governments and their allied government in this including China, ever defeated the USSR. All that the fake mujahideen succeeded was in destroying Afghanistan which under the Afghan Communists was making progress in human terms including having a human in space aboard a USSR space station and this man, Abdul Ahad Momand, was only the second South Asian in space after India's Rakesh Sharma just a few years before.  The death of two million Afghans in the Afghan war since the late 1970s lies solely on the heads of Western governments, the then Pakistani government of Zia ul Haq, then China and the so-called mujahideen.


you lot don't even have the faintest of idea wt AZADI is. As you Indians have simply been bending over for thousands of years for every invader under the sun.


----------



## Bengal71

SD 10 said:


> where are the EU CUCKS?





Oldman1 said:


> Its an absorption.



Yes I think the same. They are looking to annex or minimum install a puppet regime. But let's see, we could all be wrong.


----------



## Dalit

LOL @T-Faz


----------



## YeBeWarned

SIPRA said:


> No. IK might give him very valuable advice.


Advice like this...?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## hunter_hunted

Thots and Prayers from old Joe , Thots and prayers

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## Oldman1

Dalit said:


> Doesn't the US have the intentions of placing them?


No.


----------



## HydNizam

Russian Air Force Su35 shot down

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Dalit

Oldman1 said:


> No.


 
The US has never denied this.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## SIPRA

INS_Vikramaditya said:


> @mods can you plz unban aziqbal right now, would like to see his thoughts on UKs inaction against Russia



May be, he has himself gone to Ukraine for fighting against evil Russians.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jamahir

Indos said:


> There is pro Russian people in Ukraine, we know that but what happen in Crimea and Donbas I belive will push many of them to go against Russia. No sane people wants their country being invaded and support the invader



Sane people will not allow themselves to become a puppet society of the Western governments. 



Reichmarshal said:


> you lot don't even have the faintest of idea wt AZADI is. As you Indians have simply been bending over for thousands of years for every invader under the sun.



Herr Rommel, my identities are Muslim, Communist, Human, and Indian because of the Partition. And don't talk as if you personally were there in "Pakistan" 2300 years ago forcibly escorting Alexander's army back to Macedonia and Greece.


----------



## Indos

INS_Vikramaditya said:


> This is true for all oil importing countries



Yup, for Indonesia the impact will be minimal despite we have been net oil importer country since 2003.

Indonesia has the capacity to withstand the electricity price since large majority of our power plants use coal and gas where we are still net exporter country with regulated coal and gas price in domestic market.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Han Patriot

IblinI said:


>


And ya think we can't do the same to you huh?


----------



## Oldman1

Dalit said:


> The US has never denied this.


Where's the proof that they planned to put cruise missiles in Ukraine?


----------



## F-22Raptor

Ukraine is outgunned but they are definitely inflicting casualties

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RangeMaster

Where is commander @aziz iqbal? PDF's famous Think Tank Analyst? Last I heard he was leading British SF battalion deep into Russian territory.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## SIPRA

NA71 said:


> Boss ...IK should have avoided this trip....he would be seen standing with a villain ...bad timing



Of course, bad timing, but these things are beyond our control.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Dalit

Oldman1 said:


> Where's the proof that they planned to put cruise missiles in Ukraine?



The Russians aren't crazy. They also have intelligence. Besides, the Americans have never denied Russian accusations. The US also has military bases in many Russian surrounding nations.


----------



## Oldman1

Dalit said:


> The Russians aren't crazy. They also have intelligence. Besides, the Americans have never denied Russian accusations.


Where's the proof? What intelligence? Did the U.S. government said so?


----------



## Battlion25

Breaking the Donbass rebels have gone on the offensive along the entire donbass defensive lines


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496740070014914560

Reactions: Like Like:
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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496739288205123587


----------



## dBSPL

There are +18 images. Unfortunately, many civilians die.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Sad Sad:
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## Hamartia Antidote

- YouTube


Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.




www.youtube.com





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMC4r9Or-PA

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Battlion25

Oh my god the memes are so savage right now.. Lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496741245800046593

Reactions: Haha Haha:
9


----------



## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496737241405825024

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## Oldman1

dBSPL said:


> There are +18 images. Unfortunately, many civilians die.


But a Chinese poster named Beast said Putin has strict others that civilians are not to be hurt.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## dBSPL

As expected, social media quickly became a dump in news feeds about Ukraine. Do not rely on unreliable accounts.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496741112001667073


----------



## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496739458669891584

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ziaulislam

dBSPL said:


> weaker... but with eternal enmity


He will jsut do a regime change and make it a puppet state

Reactions: Like Like:
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## dBSPL

ziaulislam said:


> He will jsut do a regime change and make it a puppet state


If he succeeds..


----------



## KAL-EL

SD 10 said:


> I got my 3090 after 4 months of booking........ for 2400$



Yikes !!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## F.O.X

Oldman1 said:


> Where's the proof? What intelligence? Did the U.S. government said so?


Where is the proof of Iraqi Nukes, that your president was so sure of ? you lost all the moral authority the day you invaded Iraq due to your own personal agenda,

Reactions: Like Like:
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## PakAlp

This is what after the war map could look like. All pro Russian areas under Russia control, either annexed or recognised as independent.






Or Russia could surround Ukraine with an independent state.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496741446430384133

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496743889595781123

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496744134924595204

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496743551031513092

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Bleek

Raider 21 said:


>


That's old, I think

Reactions: Like Like:
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## IblinI

RangeMaster said:


> Where is commander @aziz iqbal? PDF's famous Think Tank Analyst? Last I heard he was leading British SF battalion deep into Russian territory.


He and his team is closed to Moscow right now

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## dBSPL

Turkish family in Odessa

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496744679320264704

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## Oldman1

F.O.X said:


> Where is the proof of Iraqi Nukes, that your president was so sure of ? you lost all the moral authority the day you invaded Iraq due to your own personal agenda,


So Putin has lost all the moral authority when they invaded Ukraine?


----------



## SD 10

KAL-EL said:


> Yikes !!


hahah in punjabi we say " Shok da koi mul nhi" .


----------



## Mohsin A

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496743453493018626


----------



## Aesterix

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496733828014125056


----------



## Reichmarshal

jamahir said:


> Herr Rommel, my identities are Muslim, Communist, Human, and Indian because of the Partition. And don't talk as if you personally were there in "Pakistan" 2300 years ago forcibly escorting Alexander's army back to Macedonia and Greece.


Its pretty clear for all to see how you lot treat Muslims n the rest of minorities in modis bharat.

N thats the thing you lot are so scared $hitless about being being defeated that you would just bend over rather than face a strong opposition.
Pathatic the thought process of u indians


----------



## Zhukov

Crap!!!
Now fuel Prices will shoot up again 😡


----------



## dBSPL

*BREAKING : *Bodnar, Ambassador of Ukraine to Ankara:

"We conveyed our request to the Turkish side for the closure of the Çanakkale and Istanbul Straits."

oh f...

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496740663592771587

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496742965519204355

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## HydNizam

Indian media is playing clip of Imran khan saying exciting times ahead on loop.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## srshkmr

ahmadnawaz22 said:


> Crap!!!
> Now fuel Prices will shoot up again 😡


and the stock markets will have a blood bath


----------



## Aesterix

Raider 21 said:


>


Not battle formation I think. Looks like some old air show video being used for propaganda

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jamahir

ziaulislam said:


> He will jsut do a regime change and make it a puppet state



Like USA did made a puppet state out of Indonesia ( Suharto ), of Afghanistan ( brought in the so-called mujahideen and then the Taliban ), Bolivia etc and wants to do in other countries ( Syria, Cuba, Venezuela etc ) ? 



Reichmarshal said:


> Its pretty clear for all to see how you lot treat Muslims n the rest of minorities in modis bharat.
> 
> N thats the thing you lot are so scared $hitless about being being defeated that you would just bend over rather than face a strong opposition.
> Pathatic the thought process of u indians



Does your reply have any connection to my reply at all ? Can you read and understand English or are just able to write it ?


----------



## Bengal71

Gripen9 said:


> Yeah that aziziqbal guy?





SIPRA said:


> May be, he has himself gone to Ukraine for fighting against evil Russians.



Oh behalf of her majesty.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F.O.X

Oldman1 said:


> So Putin has lost all the moral authority when they invaded Ukraine?


yes he has, he can no longer ask other countries to refrain from invading another country.

Conveniently you did not answer my question, Where is the proof of Iraqi nukes. so lets try again , and see if you can answer my question now that I have answered yours.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RangeMaster

IblinI said:


> He and his team is closed to Moscow right now


Than Russia is doomed.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## HydNizam

Ukraine must be regretting signing the Budapest memorandum.
It had the 3rd largest nukes at one time.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Bengal71

Indos said:


> Yup, for Indonesia the impact will be minimal despite we have been net oil importer country since 2003.
> 
> Indonesia has the capacity to withstand the electricity price since large majority of our power plants use coal and gas where we are still net exporter country with regulated coal and gas price in domestic market.



Oh good for Indonesia, I am happy that a fellow Muslim country won't suffer as much. We are not as lucky.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## casual

HydNizam said:


> Ukraine must be regretting signing the Budapest memorandum.
> It had the 3rd largest nukes at one time.


They didn't have the launch codes so pretty useless


----------



## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496746417083367424

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496730654699966468

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Oldman1

F.O.X said:


> yes he has, he can no longer ask other countries to refrain from invading another country.
> 
> Conveniently you did not answer my question, Where is the proof of Iraqi nukes. so lets try again , and see if you can answer my question now that I have answered yours.


Conveniently you answered correctly which I'm surprised, so in this case the Iraqi nukes was gone when Israel blew up their reactor. The WMDs of chemical weapons also gone since all used up against the Kurds and Shiites. So they had none left when the U.S. invaded. But in this case if the U.S. says Russia will invade Ukraine, would you have believe it untrue?



casual said:


> They didn't have the launch codes so pretty useless


Warheads could have been used.


----------



## HydNizam

https://nuke.fas.org/guide/ukraine/


----------



## dBSPL

HydNizam said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496730654699966468


It's not just limited to that. The engineers, who went to various countries of the world from Ukraine, also provided great assistance to the nuclear programs and ballistic missile studies of some countries. Some of these countries sold Ukraine before the war even started.

The situation in Ukraine is one of the saddest stories in modern history.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Battlion25

How deep is the russian incursion into Kharkiv


----------



## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496748275201974280

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Mohsin A

Battlion25 said:


> How deep is the russian incursion into Kharkiv


Reports coming in that its already been taken


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496740724527751170


----------



## F.O.X

Oldman1 said:


> Conveniently you answered correctly which I'm surprised, so in this case the Iraqi nukes was gone when Israel blew up their reactor. The WMDs of chemical weapons also gone since all used up against the Kurds and Shiites. So they had none left when the U.S. invaded. But in this case if the U.S. says Russia will invade Ukraine, would you have believe it untrue?


so you are trying to say that the invasion was wrong ( since there were no WMD) and USA did whatever the hell they wanted without any fear of consequences, destroyed a whole country killed million of civilians ......... for what actually ?

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## Oldman1

F.O.X said:


> so you are trying to say that the invasion was wrong ( since there were no WMD) and USA did whatever the hell they wanted without any fear of consequences, destroyed a whole country killed million of civilians ......... for what actually ?


Yes it was wrong, it was a response to the 9/11 attacks with invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq in anger. Now we are seeing the same thing with Ukraine where Putin believes it shouldn't exist.


----------



## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496750352653189120

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Aesterix

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496747870074060801


----------



## Tomcats

Mohsin A said:


> Reports coming in that its already been taken


They are at the Outskirts, no confirmed news yet of it being taken.


----------



## That Guy

beijingwalker said:


> It's all over for Ukraine and Nato.


NATO? Nato isn't in direct conflict here, what are you talking about? If you're gonna tell, at least make a bit of sense.

[Edit] looks like more Pakistani mental-slaves are cheering on anything that is perceived as anti-western, even if it is injustice.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496750242754088960


----------



## HydNizam

Russia's move towards Ukraine is not an 'occupation', contrary to the claims of some foreign media outlets - China

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Oldman1

That Guy said:


> NATO? Nato isn't in direct conflict here, what are you talking about? If you're gonna tell, at least make a bit of sense.


Beijing is right, its all over for NATO...


----------



## jamahir

HydNizam said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496730654699966468



How nice of this White House girl to say that considering that it were her governments which since the end of World War 2 been invading and destabilizing other countries and bombing and killing. 



Oldman1 said:


> Yes it was wrong, it was a response to the 9/11 attacks with invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq in anger. Now we are seeing the same thing with Ukraine where Putin believes it shouldn't exist.



So the criminal Osama bin Laden, who was propped up and armed by USA government and its allies against the progressive government in Afghanistan in the 1980s, destroying that country and its people in the people, so he did 9/11 in a turnabout against his creators but USA, Britain and Poland chose a random country - Iraq - to invade ? What logic is that ?


----------



## Oldman1

HydNizam said:


> Russia's move towards Ukraine is not an 'occupation', contrary to the claims of some foreign media outlets - China


No, Russia will not invade Ukraine​_A large-scale military operation does not fit into Moscow’s cost-benefit calculus._









No, Russia will not invade Ukraine


A large-scale military operation does not fit into Moscow’s cost-benefit calculus.




www.aljazeera.com





Over the past year, as Russia amassed troops along its border with Ukraine, there have been growing fears of an imminent invasion. A number of Western leaders have repeatedly warned of this possibility.

*Moscow has denied that it is making such plans, although it has not withdrawn its troops. Some observers have interpreted these Russian statements as untruthful and even accused the Russian authorities of preparing a false-flag operation.*


----------



## That Guy

Oldman1 said:


> Beijing is right, its all over for NATO...


Again, how? NATO is not in direct conflict with Russia here. Russia has not attacked a NATO member.

[Edit] apparently @925boy disagrees. Which nato country did Russia bomb?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Oldman1

That Guy said:


> Again, how? NATO is not in direct conflict with Russia here. Russia has not attacked a NATO member.


I don't know, I'm just repeating what he said.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## SD 10

HydNizam said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496730654699966468


wealth si no substitute to nukes...... you chosse your path . now you pay for it!


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496708579952369665

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496709097214853122

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496733828014125056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496750682874994688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496753054904954882

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496749765329096704https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1496753296257781762



https://twitter.com/franakviacorka/status/1496751495928295428


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496748162366717954


----------



## That Guy

Oldman1 said:


> I don't know, I'm just repeating what he said.


Okay, that was funny, you got me.

Reactions: Like Like:

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## Reichsmarschall

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496753058893680648

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1


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## dBSPL

For the second time, transactions stopped on the Moscow stock exchange.
The Russian Ruble is crashing fast.

I think it has to do with the market buying the Swift rumors.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496749885403631617

Russians already committing war crimes



dBSPL said:


> For the second time, transactions stopped on the Moscow stock exchange.
> The Russian Ruble is crashing fast.
> 
> I think it has to do with the Swift rumors.




The Russian economy will undeniably get steamrolled


----------



## Oom

Tbh Imran Khan should cut the his visit short and return.
Not only is this optically bad for Pakistan.

But a publicised meeting with Putin at the time will hurt Pakistan, we (as we have in the past) have also complained about Indian aggressions (cold start mil deployments and posturing etc), one cannot cry victim and also support aggressor.

IK got played by Putin. Under this government we are always a step behind covering our asses.

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## STREANH

jamahir said:


> How nice of this White House girl to say that considering that it were her governments which since the end of World War 2 been invading and destabilizing other countries and bombing and killing.



Get nukes or get ready to be invaded, that's my understanding from her statement.


----------



## zartosht

Today is the day history will look at as the end of western dominance.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Reichsmarschall

F-22Raptor said:


> Russians already committing war crimes


What's that saying about Glass Houses?









US punishes International Criminal Court for investigating potential war crimes in Afghanistan


The court prosecutes genocide, torture and grave wartime abuses worldwide. Trump’s executive order imposes on its lawyers and judges the kind of sanctions usually used on foreign terrorists.




theconversation.com

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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496749885403631617
> 
> Russians already committing war crimes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Russian economy will undeniably get steamrolled



It is worth it. US meddling in Ukraine must stop.

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## Beast

Oldman1 said:


> Well, makes you think Japan should do what Ukraine failed to do, get some nukes.


Another reason for China and Russia to nuke Japan


----------



## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496748929135820803

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Oldman1

Beast said:


> Another reason for China and Russia to nuke Japan



Too late for that.


----------



## Dalit

Oom said:


> Tbh Imran Khan should cut the his visit short and return.
> Not only is this optically bad for Pakistan.
> 
> But a publicised meeting with Putin at the time will hurt Pakistan, we (as we have in the past) have also complained about Indian aggressions in the past (cold start mil deployments and posturing etc), one cannot cry victim and also support aggressor.



No it won't. Pakistan must fulfill its duty. This is a golden chance to finally normalize relations with a regional behemoth Russia. Pakistan will have friendly relations with everyone including Russia.

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## kingQamaR

No. Much, much worse. Crimea was already Russian. This is something very different, and very, very much worse.

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## yesboss

I just and only hope IK doesn't start with " pootin ukraine ko mujh se behtar koi nhe janta".

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Battlion25

Oom said:


> Tbh Imran Khan should cut the his visit short and return.
> Not only is this optically bad for Pakistan.
> 
> But a publicised meeting with Putin at the time will hurt Pakistan, we (as we have in the past) have also complained about Indian aggressions (cold start mil deployments and posturing etc), one cannot cry victim and also support aggressor.
> 
> IK got played by Putin. Under this government we are always a step behind covering our asses.


Gtfo with this beta shxt.. Nothing will be cut short his there on a visit.. What support his neutral


----------



## dBSPL

HydNizam said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496748929135820803


Romania made an urgent appeal to NATO under Article 4.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1 | Wow Wow:
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## F-22Raptor

Considering Russia has committed 75% of its forces to this invasion, I’m not overly impressed.

They’d stand zero chance against NATO. They don’t have the money or precision guided munitions.

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## SirHatesALot

why is UN still a thing, it should be abolished

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## Oom

Dalit said:


> No it won't. Pakistan must fulfill its duty. This is a golden chance to finally normalize relations with a regional behemoth Russia. Pakistan will have friendly relations with everyone including Russia.


Brother the government should focus on the economy and domestic issues. 

Usually when leaders are faltering on domestic front they try to play themselves as big global leaders. 

Pakistan standing is too small for IK ego.


----------



## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> Considering Russia has committed 75% of its forces to this invasion, I’m not overly impressed.
> 
> They’d stand zero chance against NATO. They don’t have the money or precision guided munitions.


Bring it on. Sitting behind your keyboard ranting like a cowboy. We know what you did for 20 years in Afghanistan undermining Pakistan with your hubby India. Stop shedding crocodile tears.

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## dBSPL

F-22Raptor said:


> Considering Russia has committed 75% of its forces to this invasion, I’m not overly impressed.
> 
> They’d stand zero chance against NATO. They don’t have the money or precision guided munitions.


Two weeks ago, Putin said this himself.

He stated that NATO is stronger than Russia. Then indirectly threatened European countries with nuclear weapons.

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## lastofthepatriots

Twitter posts are just causing panic. All the Ukrainian bases that were bombed were empty. You think they didn’t know the ruskis will bomb them? Ruskis are bombing random cities to demoralize the Ukrainians and cause pandemonium.

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## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> Bring it on. Sitting behind your keyboard ranting like a cowboy.



There’s a good reason they don’t touch the Baltics.


----------



## YeBeWarned

Some people are saying Ukraine's current President is a Jew ? is that true ?


----------



## Dalit

Oom said:


> Brother the government should focus on the economy and domestic issues.
> 
> Usually when leaders are faltering on domestic front they try to play themselves as big global leaders.
> 
> Pakistan standing is too small for IK ego.



Pakistan fully belongs in China Russia camp.



F-22Raptor said:


> There’s a good reason they don’t touch the Baltics.



That will be next. You have problems everywhere. China, Russia and the list goes on. Don't shed crocodile tears.


----------



## dBSPL

YeBeWarned said:


> Some people are saying Ukraine's current President is a Jew ? is that true ?


There are some claims about his origin. But his profession was a comedian.

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## Tamerlane

Imran Khan live in Moscow.

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## Battlion25

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496751687759020032


----------



## That Guy

SirHatesALot said:


> why is UN still a thing, it should be abolished


UN isn't there to stop wars, why do people keep misunderstanding the actual purpose of the UN? Its there to give nations a forum to talk, and that's all it is.



YeBeWarned said:


> Some people are saying Ukraine's current President is a Jew ? is that true ?


Who cares?

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## Messerschmitt

F-22Raptor said:


> Considering Russia has committed 75% of its forces to this invasion, I’m not overly impressed.
> 
> They’d stand zero chance against NATO. They don’t have the money or precision guided munitions.


I think you are right but at the same time I doubt NATO has the will power to decisively confront Russia.

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## Tomcats

Oom said:


> one cannot cry victim and also support aggressor.


Exactly my point, Zaki Khalid summarized the issue with Pakistan's stance here and how it actually diplomatically hurts Pakistan. The contradictory nature undermines Pakistan's position.

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## That Guy

Dalit said:


> No it won't. Pakistan must fulfill its duty. This is a golden chance to finally normalize relations with a regional behemoth Russia. Pakistan will have friendly relations with everyone including Russia.


Russia shouldn't be trusted, especially not by Pakistan. Business and nothing more should be conducted with Russia.

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## Battlion25

SirHatesALot said:


> why is UN still a thing, it should be abolished



UN is corrupt especially Antonio Guterres


----------



## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496757920163192833


----------



## SirHatesALot

why is UN still a thing, it should be abolished


That Guy said:


> UN isn't there to stop wars, why do people keep misunderstanding the actual purpose of the UN? Its there to give nations a forum to talk, and that's all it is.
> 
> 
> Who cares?


didn't the security guarantees inexchange for Ukraine's nukes come from UN?


----------



## Oldman1

YeBeWarned said:


> Some people are saying Ukraine's current President is a Jew ? is that true ?


The Ukrainian President being Jewish is enough to justify an invasion. Not joining NATO or having nukes, just being Jewish is enough.


----------



## lastofthepatriots

Lmfao. Ruskis had 400k troops in Chechnya and the chechens didn’t even have javelins or tanks. If you arm chair generals think ruskis are going to steam roll ukraine then you’re even stupider than I thought.

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## That Guy

SirHatesALot said:


> why is UN still a thing, it should be abolished
> 
> didn't the security guarantees inexchange for Ukraine's nukes come from UN?


Again, the UN is nothing more than a forum to discuss international relations, nothing more. If agreements are made, it's between nations.

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## jamahir

dBSPL said:


> For the second time, transactions stopped on the Moscow stock exchange.
> The Russian Ruble is crashing fast.
> 
> I think it has to do with the market buying the Swift rumors.





F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496749885403631617
> 
> Russians already committing war crimes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Russian economy will undeniably get steamrolled



Another reason for Russia and allies to permanently disconnect from the Western Capitalist economic system and build a progressive socio-economic system amongst themselves and occasionally deal with the West.



STREANH said:


> Get nukes or get ready to be invaded, that's my understanding from her statement.



That's her statement, but is not legitimate and just. 



SirHatesALot said:


> why is UN still a thing, it should be abolished



It should have been abolished at least in 2011 when the UNSC sanctioned NATO to invade Libya and Syria. Two years before, Gaddafi, in his UN General Assembly address, called the UN Security Council as the Terror Council and tore up the UNO's charter calling it useless because it couldn't prevent 60 wars from happening since the end of World War 2.



That Guy said:


> Russia shouldn't be trusted, especially not by Pakistan. Business and nothing more should be conducted with Russia.



Are you another NATO-representative-TTA like @aziqbal ?



YeBeWarned said:


> Some people are saying Ukraine's current President is a Jew ? is that true ?



Yes, the president and the prime minster but shouldn't matter because "Muslim" leaders too have been NATO puppets.

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## dBSPL

lastofthepatriots said:


> Lmfao. Ruskis had 400k troops in Chechnya and the chechens didn’t even have javelins or tanks. If you arm chair generals think ruskis are going to steam roll ukraine then you’re even stupider than I thought.


Ironically, there are now Chechen militias on both sides of the front.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496734690971197444


----------



## nufix

Falcon29 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496704992689983495



And become stateless? What an ask! lol

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## F-22Raptor

The more I see the more I realize the US would f**k Russia royally in any serious military conflict. The US had better precision in Desert Storm for gods sake.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## YeBeWarned

That Guy said:


> Who cares?


some people does, reading tweets and comments regarding his Jewish origin, not that it matters to me. I hope peace prevails.


----------



## That Guy

jamahir said:


> Another reason for Russia and allies to permanently disconnect from the Western Capitalist economic system and build a progressive socio-economic system amongst themselves and occasionally deal with the West.
> 
> 
> 
> That's her statement, but is not legitimate and just.
> 
> 
> 
> It should have been abolished at least in 2011 when the UNSC sanctioned NATO to invade Libya and Syria. Two years before, Gaddafi, in his UN General Assembly address, called the UN Security Council as the Terror Council and tore up the UNO's charter calling it useless because it couldn't prevent 60 wars from happening since the end of World War 2.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you another NATO-representative-TTA like @aziqbal ?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the president and the prime minster but shouldn't matter because "Muslim" leaders too have been NATO puppets.


A progressive socio-economic system made by Russia. Lol. That's like asking nazis to accept black people into their ranks.

Once again, people on this forum show a great deal of ignorance of how international politics and organizations work.

@jamahir it's very clear that your mental state is "us vs them". Personally, I don't give a **** who wins or loses. Not my problem.


----------



## dBSPL

Ukrainian army convoy in Odessa region.


----------



## lastofthepatriots

dBSPL said:


> Ironically, there are now Chechen militias on both sides of the front.



There are chechens, then there are kadyrov’s dogs.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496756475347099649


----------



## S10

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496749885403631617
> 
> Russians already committing war crimes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Russian economy will undeniably get steamrolled


Now that's just hilarious.

Russia needs oil to be at $52 dollars per barrel to break even their national budget. Right now it's at $97 and rising. Putin is literally rolling in dough.

Meanwhile, have fun with inflation!

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## YeBeWarned

jamahir said:


> Yes, the president and the prime minster but shouldn't matter because "Muslim" leaders too have been NATO puppets.


It don't matter to me, I just read few comments and tweets so I just wanted to see if that's true.

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## Primus

lastofthepatriots said:


> Lmfao. Ruskis had 400k troops in Chechnya and the chechens didn’t even have javelins or tanks. If you arm chair generals think ruskis are going to steam roll ukraine then you’re even stupider than I thought.


Well first and foremost the Chechens are really brave and seasoned fighters. Some of them were ex russian army, some were guerilla. The tactics employed by the Chechens were guerilla tactics. It was unconventional. Also the russians tank crews were inexperienced (T80 tank crews), so much so, some tanks ran out of fuel during the fighting making them sitting ducks. 

The Ukrainians on the other hand, will fight a conventional war. Whether they will be able to successfully defend themselves or not, i do not know, but i do know that unlike Chechnya, the Ukrainians have static military positions which can be hit via air strikes. The chechens were always on the move in small groups, making them harder to hit.

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## That Guy

lastofthepatriots said:


> There are chechens, then there are kadyrov’s dogs.


To be fair, Ramzan has been pretty pissed off at Putin in recent years. If Russia's economy fails due to this crisis, Chechnya could be another war for liberation.



S10 said:


> Now that's just hilarious.
> 
> Russia needs oil to be at $52 dollars per barrel to break even their national budget. Right now it's at $97 and rising. Putin is literally rolling in dough.
> 
> Meanwhile, have fun with inflation!


That's assuming the EU will pay Russia at this point.

Besides, the ruble is crashing fast, whatever profit Russia could have made is pretty much cancelled out.


----------



## khail007

T-SaGe said:


> A Russian Pantsir system was involved in a traffic accident. There are dead and wounded.



This accident happened in 2019


----------



## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496758289291366401


----------



## Tamerlane

IK will be visiting recently built Cathedral Mosque in Moscow.


----------



## lastofthepatriots

That Guy said:


> To be fair, Ramzan has been pretty pissed off at Putin in recent years. If Russia's economy fails due to this crisis, Chechnya could be another war for liberation.
> 
> 
> That's assuming the EU will pay Russia at this point.



He’s abducted, tortured, and killed so many chechens that his life line is literally in the hands of Putin and the Russian state. Without them, Kadyrov would be lynched in a matter of days.


----------



## dBSPL

Moscow Stock Exchange Index is down 34.7%


----------



## Oldman1

Huffal said:


> Well first and foremost the Chechens are really brave and seasoned fighters. Some of them were ex russian army, some were guerilla. The tactics employed by the Chechens were guerilla tactics. It was unconventional. Also the russians tank crews were inexperienced (T80 tank crews), so much so, some tanks ran out of fuel during the fighting making them sitting ducks.
> 
> The Ukrainians on the other hand, will fight a conventional war. Whether they will be able to successfully defend themselves or not, i do not know, but i do know that unlike Chechnya, the Ukrainians have static military positions which can be hit via air strikes. The chechens were always on the move in small groups, making them harder to hit.


It won't be mostly conventional war, it's going to be urban combat and guerilla warfare.


----------



## AZMwi

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496762511441334273


----------



## jamahir

That Guy said:


> A progressive socio-economic system made by Russia. Lol. That's like asking nazis to accept black people into their ranks.



Can you elaborate ?



That Guy said:


> Once again, people on this forum show a great deal of ignorance of how international politics and organizations work.



As if you are one day in Havana and next day in London, having tea and arranging for world peace. 



lastofthepatriots said:


> There are chechens, then there are kadyrov’s dogs.



Dogs are those whose owner is NATO and who are rampaging through Libya and Syria for the last 11 years. Kadyrov is helping Syria and Russia counter them at least in Syria. This I told you yesterday. Now tell me who are the dogs.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496763320606806016

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496763436713324547


----------



## Raja Porus

Russians attacking Ukraine.... Meanwhile Pakistanis getting ready to invade India...

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## lastofthepatriots

Tamerlane said:


> IK will be visiting recently built Cathedral Mosque in Moscow.



Imran Khan’s visit must be so awkward. It’s like when you get invited to dinner by your friend and then your friend and his wife start fighting in the middle of dinner.

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## Trango Towers

War starts and Pakistan PM is in Russia.
Not a chance Pakistan can be kept silent. This is Allah. Isolation. 

War is never good but I hope the war in Europe will take pressure of Muslim world. Everyone was feasting on us

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## dBSPL




----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496763907184246784


----------



## AZMwi

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496738981895028737

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496719576507293696

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496719135883018242

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496718710635118593

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496717564734545924


----------



## Primus

Oldman1 said:


> It won't be mostly conventional war, it's going to be urban combat and guerilla warfare.


Well that would be interesting. Regardless, i hope the civillians in the affected areas are evacuated before any major urban combat takes place.


----------



## SecularNationalist

So guys finally it's happening. 
Russia is invading Ukraine not just the eastern part but all of it.


----------



## AZMwi

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496716135726735365

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496715396497526785

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496715121560858631

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496711650518478852

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496709415642312705

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496707020317241346
https://twitter.com/PSFAERO/status/1496705977525153795?s=20&t=B4Sn4buXwBYeRETNMt-fJg


----------



## lastofthepatriots

jamahir said:


> Can you elaborate ?
> 
> 
> 
> As if you are one day in Havana and next day in London, having tea and arranging for world peace.
> 
> 
> 
> Dogs are those whose owner is NATO and who are rampaging through Libya and Syria for the last 11 years. Kadyrov is helping Syria and Russia counter them at least in Syria. This I told you yesterday. Now tell me who are the dogs.


Kadyrov is killing his own people. You’re right, he’s not a dog but a pig.


----------



## Oldman1

Huffal said:


> Well that would be interesting. Regardless, i hope the civillians in the affected areas are evacuated before any major urban combat takes place.


Well Putin will try to prevent civilians leaving because many can be guerilla fighters and hide in neighboring countries and attack back in Ukraine again.

Reactions: Sad Sad:
1


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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496764457758105601

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496764603463876613


----------



## Type59

HydNizam said:


> Indian media is playing clip of Imran khan saying exciting times ahead on loop.


IK gave Putin the go ahead for invasion.


----------



## Trango Towers

Desert Fox 1 said:


> Russians attacking Ukraine.... Meanwhile Pakistanis getting ready to invade India...


Why r u happy...this is war stupid. People die. Kids die. Women and old die. It's not like going to play group like u do

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## RealNapster

yesboss said:


> I just and only hope IK doesn't start with " pootin ukraine ko mujh se behtar koi nhe janta".


 
Or 

" Look Putin. You need to understand this".

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## Tamerlane

Trango Towers said:


> War starts and Pakistan PM is in Russia.
> Not a chance Pakistan can be kept silent. This is Allah. Isolation.
> 
> War is never good but I hope the war in Europe will take pressure of Muslim world. Everyone was feasting on us



The Anglo-Zionists are not finished with Muslims yet. It’s just a lull before the next storm. There are still plenty of juicy Muslims that the Anglo-Zionists would love to kill.

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## KAL-EL

SecularNationalist said:


> So guys finally it's happening.
> Russia is invading Ukraine not just the eastern part but all of it.



Yep.. and how many of The Usual Suspects here orgasming over this said it wouldn't be a full invasion?

Or an invasion at all for that matter, because US and other Western intelligence was wrong.

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## Primus

Oldman1 said:


> Well Putin will try to prevent civilians leaving because many can be guerilla fighters and hide in neighboring countries and attack back in Ukraine again.


Sad...


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496764306867867649


----------



## Trango Towers

Tamerlane said:


> The Anglo-Zionists are not finished with Muslims yet. It’s just a lull before the next storm. There are still plenty of juicy Muslims that the Anglo-Zionists would love to kill.


I agree but they plot and Allah plots. Have faith

Reactions: Like Like:
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## AZMwi

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496697140822917127

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496701204973428739

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496703202464604164

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496704246145765381

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496689821036814340

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496687616468688902


----------



## That Guy

lastofthepatriots said:


> He’s abducted, tortured, and killed so many chechens that his life line is literally in the hands of Putin and the Russian state. Without them, Kadyrov would be lynched in a matter of days.


He still has supporters within Chechnya, mostly because he's the one with the money. So long as he guarantees them financial support, he'll continue to have those supporters.


----------



## NeonNinja

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496763517755604992

Reactions: Like Like:
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## S10

That Guy said:


> To be fair, Ramzan has been pretty pissed off at Putin in recent years. If Russia's economy fails due to this crisis, Chechnya could be another war for liberation.
> 
> 
> That's assuming the EU will pay Russia at this point.
> 
> Besides, the ruble is crashing fast, whatever profit Russia could have made is pretty much cancelled out.


Oil is priced in US dollars.

and EU will pay Russia unless they feel like freezing is a good alternative.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496765202565668866

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496765062576771072


----------



## jamahir

Oldman1 said:


> It won't be mostly conventional war, it's going to be urban combat and guerilla warfare.



And Russia has experience of urban combat in Syria.



lastofthepatriots said:


> Kadyrov is killing his own people. You’re right, he’s not a dog but a pig.



Yes, just like Gaddafi and Assad also killed their own people.


----------



## Trango Towers

The threats that Moscow will be hit if Russia invades have not materialised. Wonder why. Also border checkpoints roads into Ukraine were not mined. What were the Ukrainians doing all this time.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## KAL-EL

Trango Towers said:


> Why r u happy...this is war stupid. People die. Kids die. Women and old die. It's not like going to play group like u do



summed up quite nicely

Reactions: Like Like:
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## That Guy

jamahir said:


> Can you elaborate ?
> 
> 
> 
> As if you are one day in Havana and next day in London, having tea and arranging for world peace.
> 
> 
> 
> Dogs are those whose owner is NATO and who are rampaging through Libya and Syria for the last 11 years. Kadyrov is helping Syria and Russia counter them at least in Syria. This I told you yesterday. Now tell me who are the dogs.


Russia is literally kleptocratic oligarchy, why would they ever create a progressive socio-economic system?

No one actually expects peace to come out of the UN. Once again, not it's original purpose.


----------



## Mohsin A

Meanwhile...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496765800203657218


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496765123687370753


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496757335154659328


----------



## That Guy

S10 said:


> Oil is priced in US dollars.
> 
> and EU will pay Russia unless they feel like freezing is a good alternative.


Alternative sources exist. Sure they're more expensive, but they do exist. This war is going to expedite EU's shift away from Russian oil.


----------



## Oldman1

jamahir said:


> And Russia has experience of urban combat in Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, just like Gaddafi and Assad also killed their own people.


The experience of urban combat was mostly from the sky by dropping bombs and the ones mostly doing the fighting on the ground was Syrian military and the Iranians and Hezbollah. If they have vast experience of urban combat, it would be those who fought in Chechen Wars.


----------



## SecularNationalist

KAL-EL said:


> Yep.. and how many of The Usual Suspects here orgasming over this said it wouldn't be a full invasion?
> 
> Or an invasion at all for that matter, because US and other Western intelligence was wrong.


Well as far as I am concerned I was mix about this. In the end days those field hospitals and constant troops arrivals near the border was definitely telling something is cooking.


----------



## Battlion25

Oldman1 said:


> The experience of urban combat was mostly from the sky by dropping bombs and the ones mostly doing the fighting on the ground was Syrian military and the Iranians and Hezbollah. If they have vast experience of urban combat, it would be those who fought in Chechen Wars.


No according to credible sources around 50k russian paramilitary took part as the syrians were useless in pushing the rebels.

According to the rebels the syrians fought but only little and retreat then russian paramilitary who did not retreat came in and mostly the paramilitary were from the caucasus


----------



## Oldman1

Battlion25 said:


> No according to credible sources around 50k russian paramilitary took part as the syrians were useless in pushing the rebels.
> 
> According to the rebels the syrians fought but only little and retreat then russian paramilitary who did not retreat came in and mostly the paramilitary were from the caucasus


50k paramilitary Russian personnel? That true? I didn't even notice it was that big. Was figure it be a few special forces and the rest was their air force.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496768291146432513


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496756956232810497

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496768481882112004

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496714717116706818

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496768215346786308


----------



## Fawad alam

What will be the implications of this crisis for Turkey in long term and future of common military productions planned with Ukraine?


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496769427328540675


----------



## TheNoob

Battlion25 said:


> No according to credible sources around 50k russian paramilitary took part as the syrians were useless in pushing the rebels.
> 
> According to the rebels the syrians fought but only little and retreat then russian paramilitary who did not retreat came in and mostly the paramilitary were from the caucasus



Sounds like hot bullshit when the SAA had been pushing the rebels hard despite having no aircover prior to Russian Support.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## S10

That Guy said:


> Alternative sources exist. Sure they're more expensive, but they do exist. This war is going to expedite EU's shift away from Russian oil.


Not in the quantity needed or price for that matter. Instead of paying $700 per cubic m2, EU is going to pay at least $1500.

Now imagine what doubling of fuel cost is going to do to inflation in EU.

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## That Guy

Fawad alam said:


> What will be the implications of this crisis for Turkey in long term and future of common military productions planned with Ukraine?


If Ukraine survives, turkey will double it's investments. If not, expect the Turkish s-400 system to be studied by US scientists and researchers.


----------



## Dai Toruko

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496756031778881540


----------



## Battlion25

TheNoob said:


> Sounds like hot bullshit when the SAA had been pushing the rebels hard despite having no aircover prior to Russian Support.



What this is alternative reality shxt there is a record Solemani going to moscow in 2015 admitting to conventional defeat asking putin that he was the only one who could reverse it showing him a map


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496770743861981187

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496771036217774081


----------



## That Guy

S10 said:


> Not in the quantity needed or price for that matter. Instead of paying $700 per cubic m2, EU is going to pay at least $1500.
> 
> Now imagine what doubling of fuel cost is going to do to inflation in EU.


Russia is already threatening to increase prices to $2000, sooooo.

Either way, Russian has is gonna see a decrease in sales over the coming years, as the EU diversifies it sources.


----------



## Oldman1

Going to bed, unless the Ukrainian President surrenders, this conflict will be around when I wake up.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496768992782045184

Holy sh*t, for perspective , that’s like the Dow Jones being down 16,000 points


----------



## lastofthepatriots

Russians trying to push in Donetsk but also pissing their pants. Ukraine is no cake walk. 



https://imgur.com/a/3jbhGKs


----------



## Battlion25

Oom said:


> Meanwhile...
> 
> He is also laying the floral on Pakistanis international credibility.
> I wish he listened to Moeed rather than the idiots in his cabinet. One of IK best decision was hiring Moeed and his biggest mistake is not following his advice.



You are trolling.. This is political formality and It is just diplomatic courtesy


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496772726387666950


----------



## That Guy

Battlion25 said:


> You are trolling.. This is political formality and It is just diplomatic courtesy


Besides, Ukraine asked PMIK to tell put in to not invade. PMIK will probably at least mention Ukraine and talk about a diplomatic solution.


----------



## Trango Towers

lastofthepatriots said:


> Russians trying to push in Donetsk but also pissing their pants. Ukraine is no cake walk.
> 
> 
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/3jbhGKs


War is fought by men who bleed and feel pain. It's no joke. Meanwhile the politicians sit in warm offices



That Guy said:


> Besides, Ukraine asked PMIK to tell put in to not invade. PMIK will probably at least mention Ukraine and talk about a diplomatic solution.


Pakistan simply cannot be ignored. They tried to isolate us but Allah has other ideas for us

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## Battlion25

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496772726387666950



Wow.. They are attacking from everywhere.. Moldova rebels, Crimea, belarus, donbass rebels, and western Russia both north and west

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496773180681191426


Is that the actual pic of the jet being shot down or one just used for reference?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## lastofthepatriots

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496773180681191426


Also 4 ruski tanks down near kharkov.


----------



## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496763290562793476

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496758616346537985


----------



## Primus

lastofthepatriots said:


> Also 4 ruski tanks down near kharkov.


Pics available?


----------



## S10

lastofthepatriots said:


> Russians trying to push in Donetsk but also pissing their pants. Ukraine is no cake walk.
> 
> 
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/3jbhGKs


I don't know if you watched too many Rambo movies, but that's how ground wars are fought. Nobody is jumping out of cover and rushing to their deaths.

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## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> The actual pic


Whoa. Any idea what AD system was used to bring it down?


----------



## Battlion25

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496752029254905858


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496774111745482754

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496773833839230977


----------



## S10

F-22Raptor said:


> The actual pic


I smell bullshit.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> The actual pic


Sorry but this isnt the actual pic. Its from 2019


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496773551386472448

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## lastofthepatriots

S10 said:


> I don't know if you watched too many Rambo movies, but that's how ground wars are fought. Nobody is jumping out of cover and rushing to their deaths.


People were implying Russians will face no opposition and their air strikes have crippled the Ukrainian forces. The clip proves there is fierce resistance and no Russian Ivans will be walking through like it’s a Rambo movie.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

S10 said:


> I smell bullshit.




Don’t know if it’s true, but the Ukrainians are definitely inflicting casualties


----------



## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> Don’t know if it’s true, but the Ukrainians are definitely inflicting casualties


So far im hearing reports of 50 Russian soldiers KIA, 6 jets down, 1 heli down and 4 tanks knocked out. 

For Ukraine im hearing their entire 7th tactical air wing has been wiped out. Ground casualties are unknown but are high.

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## lastofthepatriots

F-22Raptor said:


> Don’t know if it’s true, but the Ukrainians are definitely inflicting casualties


6 aircrafts downed is positive.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496773297664512001


----------



## Raja Porus

Trango Towers said:


> Why r u happy...this is war stupid. People die. Kids die. Women and old die. It's not like going to play group like u do


Who said I'm happy.. I was making fun out of those who are actually getting excited because of this conflict.
Please be a little less judgmental.

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## YeBeWarned

Thank God I bought a Hybrid not long before...



Desert Fox 1 said:


> Who said I'm happy.. I was making fun out of those who are actually getting excited because of this conflict.
> Please be a little less judgmental.


Sarcasm is usually lost on PDFians these days.


----------



## Trango Towers

Does anyone know if Ukrainian airforce has taken off?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## HydNizam

Indian media 😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496754282707976192

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Primus

Trango Towers said:


> Does anyone know if Ukrainian airforce has taken off?


There is a vid of a Ukrainian su27 trying to intercept russian aircraft. But im hearing reports of entire squadrons being wiped out by the Russians


----------



## SirHatesALot

inflation incoming oh and very upset about conflict too


----------



## S10

lastofthepatriots said:


> People were implying Russians will face no opposition and their air strikes have crippled the Ukrainian forces. The clip proves there is fierce resistance and no Russian Ivans will be walking through like it’s a Rambo movie.


Fierce is subjective.

Did Taliban put up a fierce resistance against US? Conventionally they couldn't withstand any offensive against US. Certainly Russia will take casualties, but it's far from enough to dent the momentum of the ground offensive.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## nufix

Trango Towers said:


> Does anyone know if Ukrainian airforce has taken off?



Looking at how freely the Russian air assets move inside Ukrainian territory, I'd say they are no longer effective at least. Meanwhile, all this claims by Ukraine that Russian jets are downed are still just words.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496766878957465603


----------



## That Guy

Huffal said:


> Whoa. Any idea what AD system was used to bring it down?


If it was providing air to ground support, than it would be flying low and slow, meaning a manpad would be enough to take it out.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## S10

Huffal said:


> There is a vid of a Ukrainian su27 trying to intercept russian aircraft. But im hearing reports of entire squadrons being wiped out by the Russians


I doubt Ukraine's air force for last beyond tomorrow. Their best bet would be to disperse their troops into small teams equipped with Javelins and Stingers to ambush Russian supply convoys or helicopters. If they choose to fight the Russians head on, they'll get crushed.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## HydNizam

One su27 entered Romania 
F16 intercepted and forced to land


----------



## zartosht

Some sober economic facts for the sanctions cheerleaders:

for every 10 dollars a barrel that oil goes up, It increases Russian revenues by about 75-100million [er day. Thats not even accounting for the probable increase in gas prices.

inflation hit western economies will have to absorb a huge energy price increase.

all these sanctions cheerleaders will start singing a different tune very soon... once they start to see the pain in their own pockets, and start wondering if some eastern european backcountry on russian borders is worth their livelihood?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## KAL-EL

Desert Fox 1 said:


> Who said I'm happy.. I was making fun out of those who are actually getting excited because of this conflict.



And sadly, there are quite a few here who are orgasming over this

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Deino



Reactions: Like Like:
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## KampfAlwin

F-22Raptor said:


> The actual pic


Nope. It’s from an air show from 1993.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Primus

S10 said:


> I doubt Ukraine's air force for last beyond tomorrow. Their best bet would be to disperse their troops into small teams equipped with Javelins and Stingers to ambush Russian supply convoys or helicopters. If they choose to fight the Russians head on, they'll get crushed.


The Javelins will tear those Russian tanks apart.


----------



## Trango Towers

Huffal said:


> There is a vid of a Ukrainian su27 trying to intercept russian aircraft. But im hearing reports of entire squadrons being wiped out by the Russians


Yes I am hearing the same.

It's a lesson for Pakistan.. take out the runways the enemy cannot take off. Ballistic missile being used


----------



## That Guy

zartosht said:


> Some sober economic facts for the sanctions cheerleaders:
> 
> for every 10 dollars a barrel that oil goes up, It increases Russian revenues by about 75-100million [er day. Thats not even accounting for the probable increase in gas prices.
> 
> inflation hit western economies will have to absorb a huge energy price increase.
> 
> all these sanctions cheerleaders will start singing a different tune very soon... once they start to see the pain in their own pockets, and start wondering if some eastern european backcountry on russian borders is worth their livelihood?


Conveniently forgetting the Ruble is on a freefall right now, so whatever profit that Russia would have made is still in the negative, and getting worse.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Deino

F-22Raptor said:


> The actual pic




Are you sure?


So then explain why you can find the same image already in 2015 and again in 2018??







ΚΑΙ ΤΟ ΤΟΥΡΚΙΚΟ ΡΑΝΤΑΡ....ΔΙΑΨΕΥΔΕΙ ΤΟΥΣ ΤΟΥΡΚΟΥΣ. ΠΡΟΣΧΕΔΙΑΣΜΕΝΗ ΠΡΟΚΛΗΣΗ Η ΚΑΤΑΡΡΙΨΗ ΛΕΕΙ Ο ΣΕΡΓΚΕ'Ι' ΛΑΒΡΟΦ !!! [ video ]


ΣΑΤΥΡΑ ΤΣΙΤΑΤΑ-ΠΑΡΑΠΟΛΙΤΙΚΗ-ΑΛΗΘΕΙΕΣ-ΕΙΔΗΣΕΙΣ-ΠΕΡΙΕΡΓΑ-ΝΕΑ-ΚΟΣΜΟΣ ΕΛΛΑΔΑ ΠΑΤΡΑ




patrinaki.blogspot.com













Saudi jet fighter downed by Yemenis


TEHRAN, Jan. 07 (MNA) – Houthi-controlled Saba news agency reported that Yemenis had managed to shot down a fighter jet belonging to a Saudi-led military coalition over the Yemeni northern province of Saada on Sunday.




en.mehrnews.com

Reactions: Like Like:
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## zartosht

Trango Towers said:


> Yes I am hearing the same.
> 
> It's a lesson for Pakistan.. take out the runways the enemy cannot take off. Ballistic missile being used



the world is finally waking up to the brilliance of Iranian strategy.... This is exactly IRans doctrine...

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Primus

Trango Towers said:


> Yes I am hearing the same.
> 
> It's a lesson for Pakistan.. take out the runways the enemy cannot take off. Ballistic missile being used


Im sure the worlds militaries are watching this conflict, let alone Pakistan

Reactions: Like Like:
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## YeBeWarned

KAL-EL said:


> And sadly, there are quite a few here who are orgasming over this


That's why I never took anyone's side, whether its America Pakistan or any other country, War is nasty business and must not be encourage and should be the last resort. Some people who support Russians invasion is somewhat because of their dislike of the western countries.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Primus

zartosht said:


> the world is finally waking up to the brilliance of Iranian strategy.... This is exactly IRans doctrine...


No... It isnt. This strategy has been in use since the ballistic missile was mass produced. Stop trying to take credit

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Crystal-Clear

F-22Raptor said:


> Don’t know if it’s true, but the Ukrainians are definitely inflicting casualties


Where is uncle sam and their military when ukranians need them the most? Scared? 
.
.
Giving the lollipop of sanctions to russia .

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Enigma SIG

F-22Raptor said:


> The actual pic


This pic is from an airshow crash:





Why is all fake news coming from western sources only?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

Deino said:


> Are you sure?
> 
> 
> So then explain why you can find the same image already in 2015 and again in 2018??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ΚΑΙ ΤΟ ΤΟΥΡΚΙΚΟ ΡΑΝΤΑΡ....ΔΙΑΨΕΥΔΕΙ ΤΟΥΣ ΤΟΥΡΚΟΥΣ. ΠΡΟΣΧΕΔΙΑΣΜΕΝΗ ΠΡΟΚΛΗΣΗ Η ΚΑΤΑΡΡΙΨΗ ΛΕΕΙ Ο ΣΕΡΓΚΕ'Ι' ΛΑΒΡΟΦ !!! [ video ]
> 
> 
> ΣΑΤΥΡΑ ΤΣΙΤΑΤΑ-ΠΑΡΑΠΟΛΙΤΙΚΗ-ΑΛΗΘΕΙΕΣ-ΕΙΔΗΣΕΙΣ-ΠΕΡΙΕΡΓΑ-ΝΕΑ-ΚΟΣΜΟΣ ΕΛΛΑΔΑ ΠΑΤΡΑ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> patrinaki.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saudi jet fighter downed by Yemenis
> 
> 
> TEHRAN, Jan. 07 (MNA) – Houthi-controlled Saba news agency reported that Yemenis had managed to shot down a fighter jet belonging to a Saudi-led military coalition over the Yemeni northern province of Saada on Sunday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.mehrnews.com



It’s not an accurate tweet clearly

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## lastofthepatriots

https://imgur.com/a/FsJEsI3


----------



## Trango Towers

zartosht said:


> the world is finally waking up to the brilliance of Iranian strategy.... This is exactly IRans doctrine...


Iranian? How did they come into this?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Messerschmitt

Enigma SIG said:


> This pic is from an airshow crash:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is all fake news coming from western sources only?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496758140167421954^ Excuse me.


----------



## zartosht

That Guy said:


> Conveniently forgetting the Ruble is on a freefall right now, so whatever profit that Russia would have made is still in the negative, and getting worse.



its about 81 to the USD now.. last month it was 79 to the USD . its hasnt gone up or done more then a few rubles... 

and russian government revenue is in USD/euro while expenditure in rubles. so that actually helps government coffers.


----------



## zartosht

Huffal said:


> No... It isnt. This strategy has been in use since the *ballistic missile was mass produced.* Stop trying to take credit



examples?

the ballistic missile has always been a heavily negotiated on weapon between the russians and americans. because of its devastating effects it would cause instability.

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## Deino

AMG_12 said:


> View attachment 818126





AMG_12 said:


> Says he was killed in attack on Presidential Palace, citing French press



Any independent source?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496781552994463744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496781554063970306

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496781555141910528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496781558816153603

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496781560175026178

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496781561244573696
https://twitter.com/osinttechnical/status/1496781562389700612?s=21

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## Battlion25

AMG_12 said:


> Says he was killed in attack on Presidential Palace, citing French press



WTH


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496783790651305985

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496783278904606721


----------



## AMG_12

Deino said:


> Any independent source?


Fake news, I have deleted it.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496784722831491072

Reactions: Like Like:
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## That Guy

zartosht said:


> its about 81 to the USD now.. last month it was 79 to the USD . its hasnt gone up or done more then a few rubles...
> 
> and russian government revenue is in USD/euro while expenditure in rubles. so that actually helps government coffers.


Not exactly, because if local economy is tanking, then it doesn't matter much. Local economy is run on rubles, not usd/euro.

It doesn't matter if their forex is increased, because things are gonna get more expensive for them in the long run.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496777671400779780


----------



## Englishman

F-22Raptor said:


> The more I see the more I realize the US would f**k Russia royally in any serious military conflict. The US had better precision in Desert Storm for gods sake.



Stick to invading 3rd world countries Yank.

Time for real men to fight it out now.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496785429785313280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496785547594924032

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## jamahir

That Guy said:


> Russia is literally kleptocratic oligarchy, why would they ever create a progressive socio-economic system?



Putin has expressed regret over the dissolution of the USSR. It will be nice if he collaborates with the Russian Communist party, which is the second-largest party there, and enables a among-SCO progressive socio-economic system and wonderful it will be if it adopts a progressive political system too.



That Guy said:


> No one actually expects peace to come out of the UN. Once again, not it's original purpose.



I agree. Gaddafi was right in tearing up the UN's charter in 2009 in the UN General Assembly.



Oldman1 said:


> The experience of urban combat was mostly from the sky by dropping bombs and the ones mostly doing the fighting on the ground was Syrian military and the Iranians and Hezbollah. If they have vast experience of urban combat, it would be those who fought in Chechen Wars.





Battlion25 said:


> No according to credible sources around 50k russian paramilitary took part as the syrians were useless in pushing the rebels.
> 
> According to the rebels the syrians fought but only little and retreat then russian paramilitary who did not retreat came in and mostly the paramilitary were from the caucasus



Firstly, let us not call those as rebels. Most of them are not Syrian and all of them are either Al Qaeda or "Muslim" Brotherhood criminals. There is nothing good about them. May they perish. Secondly, I do believe that there have been Russian ground forces and also the Syrians fought too, from the start. Below is a thread of mine from 2015 about the National Defense Force which is a Syrian defense unit comprising civilian volunteers including females. The vid's account seems to have been deleted by YouTube :





ndf, the "national defence forces" of syria - a documentary


ndf is a term in context of syria that many members might have read in some thread or the other but wouldn't know much about this movement/organization. last night i saw this this documentary ( Documentary on Syrian Volunteers (National Defense Forces) incl. Syrian Women - Syria - YouTube )...



defence.pk







Trango Towers said:


> War is fought by men who bleed and feel pain. It's no joke. Meanwhile the politicians sit in warm offices





S10 said:


> I don't know if you watched too many Rambo movies, but that's how ground wars are fought. Nobody is jumping out of cover and rushing to their deaths.



@lastofthepatriots is an aggressive and rude person who is biased against Russia because of his supposed Muslim affiliation and because one of his relatives is half-Ukranian.


----------



## That Guy

Englishman said:


> Stick to invading 3rd world countries Yank.
> 
> Time for real men to fight it out now.


Russians tend to fighter weaker opponents as well. They're both panzies.

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## Han Patriot

F-22Raptor said:


> Don’t know if it’s true, but the Ukrainians are definitely inflicting casualties


So you just self mastubated? Lol

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## That Guy

jamahir said:


> Putin has expressed regret over the dissolution of the USSR. It will be nice if he collaborates with the Russian Communist party, which is the second-largest party there, and enables a among-SCO progressive socio-economic system and wonderful it will be if it adopts a progressive political system too.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. Gaddafi was right in tearing up the UN's charter in 2009 in the UN General Assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, let us not call those as rebels. Most of them are not Syrian and all of them are either Al Qaeda or "Muslim" Brotherhood criminals. There is nothing good about them. May they perish. Secondly, I do believe that there have been Russian ground forces and also the Syrians fought too, from the start. Below is a thread of mine from 2015 about the National Defense Force which is a Syrian defense unit comprising civilian volunteers including females. The vid's account seems to have been deleted by YouTube :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ndf, the "national defence forces" of syria - a documentary
> 
> 
> ndf is a term in context of syria that many members might have read in some thread or the other but wouldn't know much about this movement/organization. last night i saw this this documentary ( Documentary on Syrian Volunteers (National Defense Forces) incl. Syrian Women - Syria - YouTube )...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @lastofthepatriots is an aggressive and rude person who is biased against Russia because of his supposed Muslim affiliation and because one of his relatives is half-Ukranian.


Lol, communists are progressive. That's a laugh. Communists believe in a command economy, not a progressive one.

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## Battlion25

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496784722831491072



It is best for Iran to remain silent as this will trigger NATO.. It could be understood as provocative statement


----------



## Trango Towers

That Guy said:


> Russians tend to fighter weaker opponents as well. They're both panzies.


And the west doesn't?

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## Han Patriot

Deino said:


> Are you sure?
> 
> 
> So then explain why you can find the same image already in 2015 and again in 2018??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ΚΑΙ ΤΟ ΤΟΥΡΚΙΚΟ ΡΑΝΤΑΡ....ΔΙΑΨΕΥΔΕΙ ΤΟΥΣ ΤΟΥΡΚΟΥΣ. ΠΡΟΣΧΕΔΙΑΣΜΕΝΗ ΠΡΟΚΛΗΣΗ Η ΚΑΤΑΡΡΙΨΗ ΛΕΕΙ Ο ΣΕΡΓΚΕ'Ι' ΛΑΒΡΟΦ !!! [ video ]
> 
> 
> ΣΑΤΥΡΑ ΤΣΙΤΑΤΑ-ΠΑΡΑΠΟΛΙΤΙΚΗ-ΑΛΗΘΕΙΕΣ-ΕΙΔΗΣΕΙΣ-ΠΕΡΙΕΡΓΑ-ΝΕΑ-ΚΟΣΜΟΣ ΕΛΛΑΔΑ ΠΑΤΡΑ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> patrinaki.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saudi jet fighter downed by Yemenis
> 
> 
> TEHRAN, Jan. 07 (MNA) – Houthi-controlled Saba news agency reported that Yemenis had managed to shot down a fighter jet belonging to a Saudi-led military coalition over the Yemeni northern province of Saada on Sunday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.mehrnews.com


Because this F22 is a cheerleader. US got cold feet and ran, he needs to maintain his ego. Lol

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## Foinikas

My Pakistani friend sent this to me:





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=681149506561825

Reactions: Love Love:
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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496743355492954116

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## Riz

A lesson for cow minded Modi g …look this is how US will save you from china and Pakistan in two front war which your kaan pakad military generals are dreaming

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496787941464719361


----------



## KAL-EL

That Guy said:


> Russians tend to fighter weaker opponents as well.



This ^^

Last time I checked, Ukraine was a much much militarily weaker country than Russia.

Many of the same people here cheering on the Russians would be outright condemning this if the invading country was the US

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## Beidou2020

US is a paper tiger.

American unipolar era has now officially ended.

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## That Guy

Trango Towers said:


> And the west doesn't?



I literally said both, try to keep up, would you?



Beidou2020 said:


> US is a paper tiger.
> 
> American unipolar era has now officially ended.


It ended a long time ago.

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## Messerschmitt

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496787941464719361




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496789726233350152


----------



## Trango Towers

That Guy said:


> I literally said both, try to keep up, would you?
> 
> 
> It ended a long time ago.


I do apologise...please keep your knickers on. There is a lot happening today

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## That Guy

Trango Towers said:


> I do apologise...please keep your knickers on. There is a lot happening today


I'm in the bathroom, why would I wanna shit in own underwear?

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496790012242837506

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496790494478798851

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## Jugger

Riz said:


> A lesson for cow minded Modi g …look this is how US will save you from china and Pakistan in two front war which your kaan pakad military generals are dreaming


Why are you blabbering nonsense, you should know how clearly USA abandoned you and sent a token naval force which failed to stop Indian armed forces from dismembering Pakistan.
Not even iron brother China did anything other than watch your defeat from afar.


----------



## nangyale

That Guy said:


> I'm in the bathroom, why would I wanna shit in own underwear?


Probably the definition of shitty fighter. 
I mean shitting and fighting at the same time.


----------



## Bleek

Jugger said:


> Why are you blabbering nonsense, you should know how clearly USA abandoned you and sent a token naval force which failed to stop Indian armed forces from dismembering Pakistan.
> Not even iron brother China did anything other than watch your defeat from afar.


You're basically proving his point though 

but keep thread on-topic, argue in the Indo-Pak threads


----------



## jamahir

That Guy said:


> Lol, communists are progressive. That's a laugh. Communists believe in a command economy, not a progressive one.



In below proposal I present a Communist socio-economic system which though has a money system though an evolved money system as against Communism's desire to abolish money system but my system manages to abolish socio-economic classes ( rich, middle, poor ). There's nothing "command economy" about it :





A new economic system for the near-future


Hello, the below idea has been brewing in my head for some time and it came up during recent discussions with @Naofumi and @Soumitra in different threads. I present a new economic system that is needed especially in countries like India and Pakistan where old regressive social mores meet modern...



defence.pk


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496761690561683456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496762766316687363

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496765032167710723


----------



## casual

Huffal said:


> Whoa. Any idea what AD system was used to bring it down?


probably S300


----------



## That Guy

nangyale said:


> Probably the definition of shitty fighter.
> I mean shitting and fighting at the same time.


This entire situation means nothing to me, to be honest.


----------



## Beidou2020

This is a massive loss of prestige and reputation for the US. The fear factor of the US is gone.

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## Jugger

Bleek said:


> You're basically proving his point though
> 
> but keep thread on-topic, argue in the Indo-Pak threads


He should have looked within before posting useless offtopic posts.


----------



## Riz

Jugger said:


> Why are you blabbering nonsense, you should know how clearly USA abandoned you and sent a token naval force which failed to stop Indian armed forces from dismembering Pakistan.
> Not even iron brother China did anything other than watch your defeat from afar.


There is again a message in your comment for 56 inch pichwada holder and your kan pakad military, no country no QUAD will save you if a war brakes out between China India Pakistan ….

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## nangyale

That Guy said:


> This entire situation means nothing to me, to be honest.


Sure, maybe not to you. 

But for world politics. This is a huge day.


----------



## ziaulislam

Jugger said:


> Why are you blabbering nonsense, you should know how clearly USA abandoned you and sent a token naval force which failed to stop Indian armed forces from dismembering Pakistan.
> Not even iron brother China did anything other than watch your defeat from afar.


We have nukes for a reason


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496792700074352644

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## ziaulislam

Brothers and friends dont fight your war
You have to fight it yourself

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## Battlion25

Beidou2020 said:


> This is a massive loss of prestige and reputation for the US. The fear factor of the US is gone.



Is partly their fault they used alot of time harrasing allies while a camp of enemies have grown and fighting irrelevant wars in strange places has lead to decline instead of fighting where it matters for influence.. They lost 20 years in a garbage dumping place.. Lets assume they won afg it wouldn't have changed anything on the larger scale as afg is stragetically irrelevant on the world stage


----------



## nufix

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496790012242837506
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496790494478798851



It appears that Russia already expected the war to be mostly urban and asymmetrical


----------



## khail007

A very sad situation of war between Russia and Ukraine.
Apart from that, notice it, wherever the USA/NATO set to foot the region destabilized. The USA/NATO lust for power/influence/money is a never-ending story.
The drama USA played with Ukraine, is the same which they played with Pakistan in the decades of the 60s, 70s, 80s. The USA lures the 3rd world countries against a superpower and then enjoys/reaps the benefits.
It is always safe to keep away from the fast friendship of the USA. Nowadays, India replaced Pakistan in the subcontinent and USA also eyes BD for containment of China. Pakistan's role is over, the disintegration of Pakistan is more beneficial to the USA.
In the 60s, the USA lure us against USSR interests and Peshawar became the hub of the criminal intentions of the USA towards the USSR, and Pakistan was listed in the list of the hostile countries of the USSR. Pakistan tasted the friendship of the USA in the 70s but again due to the elite's of Pakistan embarking on the same path in the 80s. Green Card/USA Passport, education of elite's class next generations and benefits of stuffing the looted money are some of the Pros which is not available at par in communists countries.
Though Pakistan is receiving the veiled warning from the USA FO in reference to PMIK's visit to Russia, Pakistan should get her interests prior to any foreign influence. A balanced approach to the present situation is very desirable.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496793081014001665


----------



## White privilege

Anyone who does not believe that Khan's presence in Moscow right now is a premeditated??

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## NA71

jamahir said:


> In below proposal I present a Communist socio-economic system which though has a money system though an evolved money system as against Communism's desire to abolish money system but my system manages to abolish socio-economic classes ( rich, middle, poor ). There's nothing "command economy" about it :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A new economic system for the near-future
> 
> 
> Hello, the below idea has been brewing in my head for some time and it came up during recent discussions with @Naofumi and @Soumitra in different threads. I present a new economic system that is needed especially in countries like India and Pakistan where old regressive social mores meet modern...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


Please stick to the thread main topic


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496793444496605184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496793006946467841


----------



## nangyale

Battlion25 said:


> Is partly their fault they used alot if times harrasing allies while a camp of enemies have grown and fighting irrelevant wars in strange places has lead to decline instead fighting where it matters for influence..


The neocons, conned the Americans good. 
They spent the last 20 years fighting wars of terror. 
Where they achieved nothing apart from killing innocents.

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## Beidou2020

Battlion25 said:


> Is partly their fault they used alot if times harrasing allies while a camp of enemies have grown and fighting irrelevant wars in strange places has lead to decline instead fighting where it matters for influence..



American habit of using countries and then abandoning them when trouble comes is clear for the entire world to see.

More and more countries will not side with the US as they have a reputation for being untrustworthy.

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## That Guy

jamahir said:


> In below proposal I present a Communist socio-economic system which though has a money system though an evolved money system as against Communism's desire to abolish money system but my system manages to abolish socio-economic classes ( rich, middle, poor ). There's nothing "command economy" about it :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A new economic system for the near-future
> 
> 
> Hello, the below idea has been brewing in my head for some time and it came up during recent discussions with @Naofumi and @Soumitra in different threads. I present a new economic system that is needed especially in countries like India and Pakistan where old regressive social mores meet modern...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


What you're proposing is a socialist system, not a communist one.



nangyale said:


> Sure, maybe not to you.
> 
> But for world politics. This is a huge day.


That's the only reason why I'm somewhat interested. It means nothing to me on a personal level.


----------



## NA71

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496761690561683456
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496762766316687363
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496765032167710723


Now it looks painful right? The Israelis do it often for decades...bombing on Palestinian areas even on schools and hospitals ... do we cover them with such emotional tweets?

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## Battlion25

nangyale said:


> The neocons, conned the Americans good.
> They spent the last 20 years fighting wars


Stragetically it was irrelevant win or lose it does nothing for the world stage.. Couple of ragtag non state actors can't change world order why spend 23 trillion wrestling them in the mud or chasing them around does nothing for the betterment of the world because these ragtags are irrelevant elements themselves who can't even come to power in their own countries why waste cash on these


----------



## jamahir

NA71 said:


> Please stick to the thread main topic



Well, I didn't insert it into this thread without reason. The reason grew organically.



That Guy said:


> What you're proposing is a socialist system, not a communist one.



How ?


----------



## That Guy

nangyale said:


> Sure, maybe not to you.
> 
> But for world politics. This is a huge day.


That's the only reason why I'm someone interested. It means nothing to me on a personal level.


jamahir said:


> Well, I didn't insert it into this thread without reason. The reason grew organically.
> 
> 
> 
> How ?


Actually go read how a socialist economic system works, as opposed to a communist one. I'm not gonna go do your homework for you.

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## khail007

Huffal said:


> Sorry but this isnt the actual pic. Its from 2019
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496773551386472448



Now, are you aware of the propaganda techniques of the USA and their tools?

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496794599003926531

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496794161260937218


----------



## SIPRA

NA71 said:


> Please stick to the thread main topic



Yeh kaam @jamahir ki shaan kay khilaaf hae.

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## Dalit

That Guy said:


> Russia shouldn't be trusted, especially not by Pakistan. Business and nothing more should be conducted with Russia.



Should we trust America? I am just a little curious.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496795308529000450


----------



## Patriot forever

khail007 said:


> Now, are you aware of the propaganda techniques of the USA and their tools?



Reminds me ANDSF before the fall of kabul.

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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> The more I see the more I realize the US would f**k Russia royally in any serious military conflict. The US had better precision in Desert Storm for gods sake.



The things you see, are they hallucinations?

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## That Guy

Dalit said:


> Should we trust America? I am just a little curious.


No, trust your own national interests.

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## khail007

SirHatesALot said:


> inflation incoming oh and very upset about conflict too


Indeed, what about oil and gas? IMO, this conflict will add to the miseries of the white-collar community of the world.


----------



## Dalit

That Guy said:


> No, trust your own national interests.



Our national interest dictates that we befriend everyone including Russia.

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## S.Y.A

This is what happens when you give up nukes.

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## khail007

F-22Raptor said:


> The more I see the more I realize the US would f**k Russia royally in any serious military conflict. The US had better precision in Desert Storm for gods sake.



No need to put in such efforts, just send RAMBO IV and Russia will be over.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496796484745969666

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## zartosht

Absolutely devastating missile strikes by Russia..

I doubt ukraine will have any airbases left in a day or two... 

Just look at the devastating power of missiles.. Ukraines air force is absolutely useless.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496797860993843205

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## jamahir

That Guy said:


> Actually go read how a socialist economic system works, as opposed to a communist one. I'm not gonna go do your homework for you.



In other words you are unable to put your thoughts into simple words so you choose to be rude.


----------



## nangyale

Battlion25 said:


> Stragetically it was irrelevant win or lose it does nothing for the world stage.. Couple of ragtag non state actors can't change world order why spend 23 trillion wrestling them in the mud or chasing them around does nothing for the betterment of the world because these ragtags are irrelevant elements themselves who can't even come to power in their own countries why waste cash on these


Because that's what the some people required in order to perpetuate their occupation.
It doesn't help the Americans in any way as you said, though.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496799258439262211


----------



## KAL-EL

zartosht said:


> Absolutely devastating missile strikes by Russia..
> 
> I doubt ukraine will have any airbases left in a day or two...
> 
> Just look at the devastating power of missiles.. Ukraines air force is absolutely useless.



You almost sound surprised? Ukraine militarily is no match for Russia.

Let's not act like Russia is taking on some worthy adversary.


----------



## lastofthepatriots

zartosht said:


> Absolutely devastating missile strikes by Russia..
> 
> I doubt ukraine will have any airbases left in a day or two...
> 
> Just look at the devastating power of missiles.. Ukraines air force is absolutely useless.



Perhaps this will be a wake up call for you Iranians.

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## Dalit

KAL-EL said:


> You almost sound surprised? Ukraine militarily is no match for Russia.
> 
> Let's not act like Russia is taking on some worthy adversary.



For months we have been hearing from US and NATO countries that Ukraine would give a befitting reply to Russia.

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## casual

zartosht said:


> Absolutely devastating missile strikes by Russia..
> 
> I doubt ukraine will have any airbases left in a day or two...
> 
> Just look at the devastating power of missiles.. Ukraines air force is absolutely useless.


ukraine's right next to russia. basically one salvo from a BM-30 and an airfield's gone. russian systems aren't known for accuracy but they do pack a lot of explosives.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496521293126066181

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496802576372748291

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Bengal71

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496773180681191426



Don't shit post. It's from 2019.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496803235692269569

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## Foinikas

Meanwhile

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## SirHatesALot

Foinikas said:


> Meanwhile
> 
> View attachment 818143


perfect timing

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## HydNizam



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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496804906447126533

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496805015364714501

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## Patriot forever

HydNizam said:


> View attachment 818144



Just business as usual like the uninterrupted gas and oil supplies to Europe of than $700m since morning.

The war is a bilateral issue which should be resolved with dialogue, our stance is clear.

We need to develop relations with all the strong countries in the world otherwise wiping Anglo *** will drag us down as they have made their objectives very clear in South Asia and our existence without being neutered is detrimental to their calculus.

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## That Guy

Dalit said:


> Our national interest dictates that we befriend everyone including Russia.


No, it dictates we have economic and military relationships with everyone who is willing, whom we can benefit from.

No more, no less. Which is why I cringe when Pakistanis talk about brotherhood and friendship, because no such thing exists in geopolitics.

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## lastofthepatriots

Ruski Ivans captured by Ukrainian forces.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496805525476065287

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496806226188980224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496805859468398595


----------



## Battlion25

zartosht said:


> Absolutely devastating missile strikes by Russia..
> 
> I doubt ukraine will have any airbases left in a day or two...
> 
> Just look at the devastating power of missiles.. Ukraines air force is absolutely useless.



The missiles do only limited damage and to be frank small scale..

Ukraines airforce is functional but they have been battered due to Russian air superiority and if they had f16s with Bvr the air battle would have been fought over russian skies..

Since the soviet union russia doctrine believes in the conventional aspect and puts heavy focus on it hence russia knows it will have to take it from Ukraine in the conventional arena and also the reason the Russian missiles landing is due to Ukraines poor ADS systems because if they had solid ADS it would have found less success but even that they will not alter anything in the conventional ground conflict in this war...

The ADS of Ukraine has been limited due to also russian air superiority targetting them early and the damage is coming solely from the Russian airforce and the Russian conventional forces while with missiles you can do only limited stragetic strikes ala Hamas in may 21.. But if Russia was to win here it will solely come on the back of air superiority and conventional forces superiority..

Russia will not take anything from Ukraine on the back of missiles except strike stragetic assets ala Hamas and won't be able to alter anything on the ground reality whatsoever.. Russia has approx 350k+ conventional forces if you count the rebels in Dpr, lpr and these in Moldova including the belarussians


----------



## That Guy

jamahir said:


> In other words you are unable to put your thoughts into simple words so you choose to be rude.


No, because socialism has things like cash and private ownership to a degree, while communism has nothing of the sort.

Once again, just google it. I don't want to divert the thread.

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## The SC

#BREAKING: Russian Ministry of Defence: Military infrastructure, air defense facilities, military airfields and aircraft of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are being put out of action by high-precision means of destruction..

Russia carries a full scale invasion of Ukraine with attack from the East, the north and the south.. according to CTV..


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496806528766066690

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----------



## FuturePAF

Dalit said:


> Sure. RSS pandit has turned anti-Russia.


Russia should take note that a major Indian establishment figure is signaling India wants to dump Russia for the west, with this kind of rhetoric.

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## reflecthofgeismar

Foinikas said:


> Meanwhile
> 
> View attachment 818143


"Well ...


HydNizam said:


> View attachment 818144


that escalated quickly."


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496807143856648201


----------



## QWECXZ

lastofthepatriots said:


> Perhaps this will be a wake up call for you Iranians.


To acquire nuclear weapons? Yes, I do agree with you.
But on the other hand, this war demonstrates how firing large number of precise ballistic and cruise missiles can be an effective tactic for crippling the adversary in the early stages of war.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496807680731717639


----------



## lastofthepatriots

QWECXZ said:


> To acquire nuclear weapons? Yes, I do agree with you.
> But on the other hand, this war demonstrates how firing large number of precise ballistic and cruise missiles can be an effective tactic for crippling the adversary in the early stages of war.



I was referring to your Air Force, but okay...


----------



## FuturePAF

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496807143856648201


This is why a powerful defensive Air Force is a must for any smaller nation.

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## The SC

footage of Russian/Belarusian invasion forces moving into Ukrainian territory.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496758871108440070


----------



## Windjammer

Foinikas said:


> Meanwhile
> 
> View attachment 818143





HydNizam said:


> View attachment 818144


Cool, it shows the importance of Imran Khan.... even while his country is at war, Putin is hosting his VIP guest.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496808483743846405

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496808734236020748


----------



## jamahir

That Guy said:


> No, because socialism has things like cash and private ownership to a degree, while communism has nothing of the sort.
> 
> Once again, just google it. I don't want to divert the thread.



My last point about this here : I am a moderate Communist in the socio-economic sense that because humanity as yet has no molecular replicator machines to produce everything for free there has to be some evolved mechanism to act as intermediary of goods and services, hence my proposed money system. But if you care to read my thread and the discussion there you will see the idea being semi-Communist. We can discuss there.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496763087910703107


----------



## KAL-EL

QWECXZ said:


> But on the other hand, this war demonstrates how firing large number of precise ballistic and cruise missiles can be an effective tactic for crippling the adversary in the early stages of war.



Ukraine is absolutely no match for Russia militarily.

Let's not act like Ukraine is some militarily worthy adversary.

On the other hand, if you're fighting a country that also possesses those kinds of weapons in plenty, it won't be one-sided.

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## lastofthepatriots

https://imgur.com/a/F3L1yyf


----------



## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> The things you see, are they hallucinations?




US deployed far more PGMs, with greater accuracy, against a much denser air defense network in Iraq. And that was 30 years ago

The US would roll Russia in any military conflict.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496809801996767244

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496809816190328838

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496808831053090817


----------



## retaxis

F-22Raptor said:


> US deployed far more PGMs, with greater accuracy, against a much denser air defense network in Iraq. And that was 30 years ago
> 
> The US would roll Russia in any military conflict.


the same US that got rolled by the Taliban and Vietcong? doubt it

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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> US deployed far more PGMs, with greater accuracy, against a much denser air defense network in Iraq. And that was 30 years ago
> 
> The US would roll Russia in any military conflict.



You said the same about Iraq and Afghanistan.

You care so much about peace on your continent. You have zero concern for peace in other places. In fact, you invade, occupy and ravage places. I find it hilarious how US/NATO are screaming for peace.

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## HydNizam



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## F-22Raptor

retaxis said:


> the same US that got rolled by the Taliban and Vietcong? doubt it





Dalit said:


> You said the same about Iraq and Afghanistan.
> 
> You care so much about peace on your continent. You have zero concern for peace in other places. In fact, you invade, occupy and ravage places.




We’re talking about conventional conflicts, not guerilla insurgencies. Understand the difference

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## Battlion25

Putin inviting Imran khan at the point of waging war was a well thought out plan of him.. Because he knows Imran Khan has ridiculous amount of media circus following him and makes headlines and this could be part of his game plan in order for the Ukraine invasion to reach as many as possible of the 8 billion on the globe in order to announce Russias play for world order.. Putin envisions a new russian golden age


----------



## Messerschmitt

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496804132707045376


So we cover Arma 3 footage now?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496787968203231232


----------



## Cent4

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496804132707045376


This is an old video. I am sure I have seen it before.


----------



## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> We’re talking about conventional conflicts, not guerilla insurgencies. Understand the difference



It is your country that has always claimed superiority over others. Guerilla or otherwise.

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## The SC

It is getting ugly..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496803332828106756

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## HydNizam

There will be no world war
EU and NATO press conference today has no mention of any military response or even support to Ukraine. 
However it is no easy job for Russia too. 
Installing a puppet government will not be easy so best bet is to divide Ukraine in smaller parts and support proxies.

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## That Guy

jamahir said:


> My last point about this here : I am a moderate Communist in the socio-economic sense that because humanity as yet has no molecular replicator machines to produce everything for free there has to be some evolved mechanism to act as intermediary of goods and services, hence my proposed money system. But if you care to read my thread and the discussion there you will see the idea being semi-Communist. We can discuss there.


There is no such thing as a moderate communist, you either are, or you're a socialist.


----------



## Daniel808

When your country full of bunch of Idiot that Genociding your Powerful neighbour minority.



This is what you pay

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496803235692269569
Russian troops still on Full Speed





There is no, any meaningful or coordinated resistance from ukies

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496796956483629067


Looks like Russian Air Force (RuAF) Successfully obliterate Ukraine military chain of command.
That’s why there is NO coordinated ukraine resistance

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496796484745969666

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496794681811767297

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496795383284256774

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## NA71

Foinikas said:


> Meanwhile
> 
> View attachment 818143



IK is sitting like he is donating $100Bn to Russia  Khan ji kissi kay barham mein nahein atey ....

Just imagine this white bear is currently gone wild and on his orders a Havoc on earth is going on ....Khan is on his own mood ...in his own style.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496811475486261253

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496811264785403912


----------



## Indos

KAL-EL said:


> You almost sound surprised? Ukraine militarily is no match for Russia.
> 
> Let's not act like Russia is taking on some worthy adversary.



Ukraine still has 200.000 troops and 300.000 reserves


----------



## Enigma SIG

Battlion25 said:


> Putin inviting Imran khan at the point of waging war was a well thought out plan of him.. Because he knows Imran Khan has ridiculous amount of media circus following him and makes headlines and this could be part of his game plan in order for the Ukraine invasion to reach as many as possible of the 8 billion on the globe in order to announce Russias play for world order.. Putin envisions a new russian golden age


The what?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496811230153084930

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## Daniel808

Poor ukies


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496811298872786945


----------



## That Guy

retaxis said:


> the same US that got rolled by the Taliban and Vietcong? doubt it


Conventional and unconventional are two different things.

Occupation and direct war are two different things.

It's okay to not know what you're talking about, just don't pretend otherwise.

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## Daniel808

Ukies is full of stupid people..

As smaller country you need to behave properly near your Bigger Neighbour.
Instead, they Genociding their Bigger neighbour Minority. WTF !!
And put all the bet on american empty lip service.



Now they pay the price





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496757309174910979

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496756446398074882

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496753350494150659

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496736671555072002

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496787281683877893

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## Vergennes

Russian KA52 downed


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496811877313228800

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496812834285621249

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496812655167909890

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## Enigma SIG

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496811475486261253
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496811264785403912


That's one tough Alligator.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496813828511776772


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496811036959256580

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## SIPRA

NA71 said:


> IK is sitting like he is donating $100Bn to Russia  Khan ji kissi kay barham mein nahein atey ....
> 
> Just imagine this white bear is currently gone wild and on his orders a Havoc on earth is going on ....Khan is on his own mood ...in his own style.



Style say lagta hae, kay Putin nain Khan ka qarza daina hae.

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## KAL-EL

Indos said:


> Ukraine still has 200.000 troops and 300.000 reserves



If that's really the case, they're certainly not helping them now, as Russia is moving in with relative ease.

They certainly have nowhere near the air, cruise and ballistic missile capability that Russia has.

I mean let's be real here

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## lastofthepatriots

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496787281683877893



Germans are the biggest cuck nation on earth.

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## .King.

Messerschmitt said:


> So we cover Arma 3 footage now?


Arma 3 footage, that too of A10 warthog 😂


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496811350445678592


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496814842254176256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496814717964324865

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496761266882244614


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496815398108672001

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## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496812159984091138

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## Daniel808

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496811036959256580



They have S-300s to protect their city before this.
Instead, they using cheap manpads.

This is show us, how successfull Russian Air Force (RuAF) in obliterating Ukraine defence network in the opening phase


Ukraine armed forces would degrade to become guerilla fighters very soon, if this continue

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## Tomcats

Russians are very close to Kyiev. 23km


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496809143738507264


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496816177359818753


----------



## Scorpio_26

Russian Heli shot down..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496813914843189250

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496808893548216320


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496816744786190337

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496800233203843080


----------



## Crystal-Clear

KAL-EL said:


> You almost sound surprised? Ukraine militarily is no match for Russia.
> 
> Let's not act like Russia is taking on some worthy adversary.


Maybe thats because that worthy enemy is hiding behind nato . Lol
.
.
Where is uncle sam ? Scared ?
I am 100% sure that usa is incapable of massing with Russia in eastern Europe.


----------



## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496812186710286345

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496809657117069318

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496808452743704578

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## QWECXZ

lastofthepatriots said:


> I was referring to your Air Force, but okay...


Do you think Ukraine stood a chance against Russia with a better air force?



KAL-EL said:


> Ukraine is absolutely no match for Russia militarily.
> 
> Let's not act like Ukraine is some militarily worthy adversary.
> 
> On the other hand, if you're fighting a country that also possesses those kinds of weapons in plenty, it won't be one-sided.


I never said Ukraine is a match for Russia. If anything, I have seen Americans downplay the might of the Russian Army, not me. And you guys boasted about how NATO can stop a Russian invasion. It seems that they peed all over NATO and warnings by the US, France, the UK and Germany with this move.

Nevertheless, what Russia has achieved with its missiles in Ukraine can also be done by Iran. And except for maybe Israel (due to the large military aid it receives from different nations), Iran does have the upper hand in missile production in the region.

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## Salza

Ukraine Ambassadar to India : lol

"Deeply Dissatisfied" With India Position: Ukraine Envoy As Russia Attacks​Ukraine envoy said, "The recommendations and statement of your Ministry of External affairs -- that was India is closely following the development of events. We are deeply dissatisfied with this position"​








"Deeply Dissatisfied" With India Position: Ukraine Envoy As Russia Attacks


Ukraine envoy Igor Polikha today "pleaded" for India's intervention in the conflict with Russia that started this morning, saying a "strong voice" of India might make Russian President Vladimir Putin "think".




www.ndtv.com

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496801008437145604
Not sure it is a Russian tank though.. ground troops are not in Kyiv yet..


----------



## Indos

KAL-EL said:


> If that's really the case, they're certainly not helping them now, as Russia is moving in with relative ease.
> 
> They certainly have nowhere near the air, cruise and ballistic missile capability that Russia has.
> 
> I mean let's be real here



Ukraine doesnt have good air defense and Air Force.

Their power is more on ground troops that I think will be concentrated on certain strategic regions.

This troops are also enought to make insurgency operation supported by weapon supply from US and Nato and will be operated in region where anti Russian population are majority


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496816797860958212

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## KAL-EL

QWECXZ said:


> Do you think Ukraine stood a chance against Russia with a better air force?
> 
> 
> I never said Ukraine is a match for Russia. If anything, I have seen Americans downplay the might of the Russian Army, not me. And you guys boasted about how NATO can stop a Russian invasion. It seems that they peed all over NATO and warnings by the US, France, the UK and Germany with this move.
> 
> Nevertheless, what Russia has achieved with its missiles in Ukraine can also be done by Iran. And except for maybe Israel (due to the large military aid it receives from different nations), Iran does have the upper hand in missile production in the region.



Ukraine has never been and is not currently a part of NATO.

Otherwise, I give you props for your well-rounded response


----------



## Foinikas

Why are Indians EVERYWHERE?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## KAL-EL

Crystal-Clear said:


> Maybe thats because that worthy enemy is hiding behind nato . Lol
> .
> .
> Where is uncle sam ? Scared ?
> I am 100% sure that usa is incapable of massing with Russia in eastern Europe.



Ukraine has never been and is currently not a member of NATO.

When Russia actually invades a NATO country, then give me a ring with your usual anti Western talking points

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496817976904933380

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496818440564359177

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496818747130187777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496818762464788481


----------



## lastofthepatriots

QWECXZ said:


> Do you think Ukraine stood a chance against Russia with a better air force?
> 
> 
> I never said Ukraine is a match for Russia. If anything, I have seen Americans downplay the might of the Russian Army, not me. And you guys boasted about how NATO can stop a Russian invasion. It seems that they peed all over NATO and warnings by the US, France, the UK and Germany with this move.
> 
> Nevertheless, what Russia has achieved with its missiles in Ukraine can also be done by Iran. And except for maybe Israel (due to the large military aid it receives from different nations), Iran does have the upper hand in missile production in the region.



Yes


----------



## QWECXZ

KAL-EL said:


> Ukraine has never been and is not currently a part of NATO.
> 
> Otherwise, I give you props for your well-rounded response


Yes, but I never claimed Ukraine was part of NATO. But NATO and Western powers did warn Russia of the consequences of launching a ground invasion of Ukraine and yet it didn't stop Russia. Let's be honest there, NATO is a joke without the US, the UK, France, and in recent years Turkey. Germany contributes mostly to the economic weight of the treaty. And as far as I can remember, all of these countries did stand with Ukraine, and some of them have sent weapons to Ukraine, have threatened Russia with crippling sanctions and yet Russia not only went ahead but it's completely dominating the war with minimum cost so far.



lastofthepatriots said:


> Yes


Why? What could they do to stop Russians? What could they do that missiles cannot achieve at a higher cost?

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## TheNoob

Foinikas said:


> Why are Indians EVERYWHERE?
> 
> View attachment 818155



2nd largest pop on the planet. 
You should get used to it, only 30% of the indians have internet. Now imagine what it will be like in the next 5 or so years.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## WinterFangs

WTF, before I slept all it was , was putin announced war, I wake up and it’s gone worse, plane shot etc.

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496797735428702208

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## That Guy

To Putin, I say, early congratulations on your victory, which everyone expected. Good luck with rebuilding your lost military capabilities after this war, as well as becoming a Chinese puppet state, since China is the only country capable of saving your economic collapse.

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## ZeEa5KPul

That Guy said:


> To Putin, I say, early congratulations on your victory, which everyone expected. Good luck with rebuilding your lost military capabilities with this war, as well as becoming a Chinese puppet state, since China is the only country capable of saving your economic collapse.


I could make a fortune selling all the lithium in your salt.

What lost military capabilities? Ukrainian "soldiers" are standing down all over the place so they don't get turned into red mist by Russia.

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## TheNoob

That Guy said:


> To Putin, I say, early congratulations on your victory, which everyone expected. Good luck with rebuilding your lost military capabilities with this war, as well as becoming a Chinese puppet state, since China is the only country capable of saving your economic collapse.



The man didn't give in to being played around with being pressured, played it like a lion for the Russians.


----------



## Bengal71

HydNizam said:


> There will be no world war
> EU and NATO press conference today has no mention of any military response or even support to Ukraine.
> However it is no easy job for Russia too.
> Installing a puppet government will not be easy so best bet is to divide Ukraine in smaller parts and support proxies.



Not too sure 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496808734236020748


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

KAL-EL said:


> If that's really the case, they're certainly not helping them now, as Russia is moving in with relative ease.
> 
> They certainly have nowhere near the air, cruise and ballistic missile capability that Russia has.
> 
> I mean let's be real here


But they have DEMOCRACY! How could anything stop DEMOCRACY?!


----------



## lastofthepatriots

Ukrainian forces are probably setting up ambushes for russian convoys when they leave. Ukrainian doctrine was geared towards guerilla warefare in case of russian invasion due to the disparity in power.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## QWECXZ

That Guy said:


> To Putin, I say, early congratulations on your victory, which everyone expected. Good luck with rebuilding your lost military capabilities after this war, as well as becoming a Chinese puppet state, since China is the only country capable of saving your economic collapse.


What lost military? They are killing Ukrainians in hundreds and basically destroying nearly all military infrastructure and assets of Ukraine and you think they are losing their military capabilities? Do you live in reality?

And Russia is far from a Chinese puppet state. Iran alone can sign over $10 billion worth of arms purchases from Russia if Russia doesn't fear the Western sanctions anymore. Russia has tried to play nice with the West so far. If it really wants to turn against the West, they can earn a lot of money from armed sales and transferring technology to the Middle East alone. I'm sure other parts of the world are interested in Russian arms and expertise as well.

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## Char

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496816797860958212



They just had a light show with the Ukrainian flag.


----------



## Daniel808

Indos said:


> Ukraine doesnt have good air defense and Air Force.
> 
> Their power is more on ground troops that I think will be concentrated on certain strategic regions.
> 
> This troops are also enought to make insurgency operation supported by weapon supply from US and Nato and will be operated in region where anti Russian population are majority



Doesnt have good air defence?

If Ukraine located in South East Asia, they would be one of the country with Strongest Air Defence Network in the region.

They have bunch of S-300V1, TOR, BUK, Strela, Tunguska, and many others.

They also have 69 unit 4-4.5th Gen combat aircraft (Sukhoi-27 & MIG-29) to have a good fight.


But as you can see, Russian sucessfully obliterate their chain of command.
If this continue, Russian would successfully turn Ukraine Armed Forces (UAF) become bunch of guerilla fighters in matter of week

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496818160422559746

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Battlion25

QWECXZ said:


> Do you think Ukraine stood a chance against Russia with a better air force?
> 
> 
> I never said Ukraine is a match for Russia. If anything, I have seen Americans downplay the might of the Russian Army, not me. And you guys boasted about how NATO can stop a Russian invasion. It seems that they peed all over NATO and warnings by the US, France, the UK and Germany with this move.
> 
> Nevertheless, what Russia has achieved with its missiles in Ukraine can also be done by Iran. And except for maybe Israel (due to the large military aid it receives from different nations), Iran does have the upper hand in missile production in the region.



With a better airforce like f16s with bvr the air battles would have taken place in Russia..

It is actually the opposite Iran could achieve some form of success against Israel due to poor stragetic depth and tiny numbers but the other players in the region would devastate Iran... The missile is not the main thing here but rather russian airforce and conventional superiority..


----------



## nufix

QWECXZ said:


> What lost military? They are killing Ukrainians in hundreds and basically destroying nearly all military infrastructure and assets of Ukraine and you think they are losing their military capabilities? Do you live in reality?
> 
> And Russia is far from a Chinese puppet state. Iran alone can sign over $10 billion worth of arms purchases from Russia. Russia has tried to play nice with the West so far. If it really wants to turn against the West, they can earn a lot of money from armed sales and transferring technology to the Middle East alone. I'm sure other parts of the world are interested in Russian arms and expertise as well.



Not that easy though. Russian access to the world's financial market is now being restricted. Big ticket purchases like that usually needs bank guarantees. Problem is, no banks want to be guarantor for any transactions that involve Russia. Other than China and perhaps to some extent Iran, not that many countries that are close to Russia have the capability to pay for big ticket purchases in cash or in raw materials.


----------



## Joe Shearer

QWECXZ said:


> What lost military? They are killing Ukrainians in hundreds and basically destroying nearly all military infrastructure and assets of Ukraine and you think they are losing their military capabilities? Do you live in reality?
> 
> And Russia is far from a Chinese puppet state. Iran alone can sign over $10 billion worth of arms purchases from Russia if Russia doesn't fear the Western sanctions anymore. Russia has tried to play nice with the West so far. If it really wants to turn against the West, they can earn a lot of money from armed sales and transferring technology to the Middle East alone. I'm sure other parts of the world are interested in Russian arms and expertise as well.


We have bought a couple of things from them from time to time.

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## Enigma SIG

US rn.

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## Char

NATO has become a joke! It's almost over, Germany and France should leave NATO and sign a peace treaty with Russia.

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## hydrabadi_arab

I don't know where Ukraine went wrong. Its a massive country with 45 million population yet is falling like flies.

Lessons for smaller countries who have bigger enemies. Develop nukes at all costs to secure your future.

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## Crystal-Clear

KAL-EL said:


> Ukraine has never been and is currently not a member of NATO.
> 
> When Russia actually invades a NATO country, then give me a ring with your usual anti Western talking points











Biden Warns of ‘Severe’ Actions if Russia Invades Ukraine


Biden airs strongest warning, including against Putin himself




www.voanews.com




.
.
Where are these promised action and consequences?

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## AZMwi

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496763087910703107


so russians r using b-17 bombers now lol. it's a footage of a video game

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## notorious_eagle

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496811036959256580



Now this is what you call fantastic piloting. Formation flying in a professional manner, countermeasures are immediately deployed to defeat the MANPAD.

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## Foinikas

NATO and EU leaders are like

"Our hearts and minds are with Ukraine"

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## M.AsfandYar

lastofthepatriots said:


> All hail Sultan Erdogan!
> 
> 
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/GjMza7t


From armenia zzzzzz


----------



## QWECXZ

lastofthepatriots said:


> All hail Sultan Erdogan!
> 
> 
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/GjMza7t


You are joking. Right? The Russians are shooting them down like flies. They have shot down 3 so far.

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## That Guy

ZeEa5KPul said:


> I could make a fortune selling all the lithium in your salt.
> 
> What lost military capabilities? Ukrainian "soldiers" are standing down all over the place so they don't get turned into red mist by Russia.


Russia lost a lot of hardware and is still losing hardware.

But I don't ever expect you to admit it, considering you're the type to push your propaganda, like you always do.

And no, Ukrainians aren't standing down just yet. You and I both know what you said is false.

But again, you won't admit it.

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## AZMwi

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496804132707045376


stop posting footages of video games mate.

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## khail007

Dalit said:


> You said the same about Iraq and Afghanistan.
> 
> You care so much about peace on your continent. You have zero concern for peace in other places. In fact, you invade, occupy and ravage places. I find it hilarious how US/NATO are screaming for peace.



Very well said, in reality, the USA & NATO are the ones who makes Ukraine scapegoat for their vested evil intentions.

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## That Guy

TheNoob said:


> The man didn't give in to being played around with being pressured, played it like a lion for the Russians.


Not really. He's made quite a few blunders, of which I will talk about once this invasion is over, and full occupation begins.


----------



## Leishangthem

india -ukraine & taiwan's new reports are equally reputable and trustworthy.


----------



## M.AsfandYar

notorious_eagle said:


> Now this is what you call fantastic piloting. Formation flying in a professional manner, countermeasures are immediately deployed to defeat the MANPAD.


I think the missile misses early on in the video,


----------



## Sadd hassan

hydrabadi_arab said:


> I don't know where Ukraine went wrong. Its a massive country with 45 million population yet is falling like flies.
> 
> Lessons for smaller countries who have bigger enemies. Develop nukes at all costs to secure your future.


Ukraine is mostly flat making its terrain suitable for maneavure warfare russia is completely in a diffrent league compared to ukraine it never stood a chance.Ukraine should have recognized strategic realities and should have pushed for friendly relations with russia or a neutrality but they moved in opposite direction.

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## Battlion25

hydrabadi_arab said:


> I don't know where Ukraine went wrong. Its a massive country with 45 million population yet is falling like flies.
> 
> Lessons for smaller countries who have bigger enemies. Develop nukes at all costs to secure your future.



It is far from over this is just the first engagement phase besides not only nukes Ukraine has poor ADS, airforce and EWs.. Countries like Qatar, Azerbaijan, Morocco etc etc are much much better armed leagues ahead.. Jordan is also much better armed in comparison but still this is only first phase because conventionally Ukraine is good and this will continue and resistance will get more stiff with time


----------



## The SC

notorious_eagle said:


> Now this is what you call fantastic piloting. Formation flying in a professional manner, countermeasures are immediately deployed to defeat the MANPAD.


The Russian armed forces are not to be underestimated ..they are well trained and capable..although they are not facing very sophisticated weapons..but they are not using their most sophisticated weapons either..

Anyone remembers when Ukraine was the second most powerful nuclear force in the world?

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## lastofthepatriots

M.AsfandYar said:


> From armenia zzzzzz


Source was not credible. Sorry about that.

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## The Eagle

May the sanity prevail. Ukraine was used by NATO to threaten Russia. They should have seen it coming that Russia wouldn't compromise on its security and allowing NATO to breath right on Russia's neck like this.

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## ziaulislam

Sadd hassan said:


> Ukraine is mostly flat making its terrain suitable for maneavure warfare russia is completely in a diffrent league compared to ukraine it never stood a chance.Ukraine should have recognized strategic realities and should have pushed for friendly relations with russia or a neutrality but they moved in opposite direction.


Demands were simple dont go to NATO

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## That Guy

QWECXZ said:


> What lost military? They are killing Ukrainians in hundreds and basically destroying nearly all military infrastructure and assets of Ukraine and you think they are losing their military capabilities? Do you live in reality?
> 
> And Russia is far from a Chinese puppet state. Iran alone can sign over $10 billion worth of arms purchases from Russia if Russia doesn't fear the Western sanctions anymore. Russia has tried to play nice with the West so far. If it really wants to turn against the West, they can earn a lot of money from armed sales and transferring technology to the Middle East alone. I'm sure other parts of the world are interested in Russian arms and expertise as well.


If only it was that easy, but it's not. I've already explained my stances, no need for me to repeat myself.

By the way, lost soldiers and hardware are hard to replace, both of which Russia has lost.


----------



## KAL-EL

Crystal-Clear said:


> Biden Warns of ‘Severe’ Actions if Russia Invades Ukraine
> 
> 
> Biden airs strongest warning, including against Putin himself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.voanews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> .
> Where are these promised action and consequences?



President Biden can yap he wants 

It doesn't change the fact that Ukraine is not a NATO member.

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## That Guy

The Eagle said:


> May the sanity prevail. Ukraine was used by NATO to threaten Russia. They should have seen it coming that Russia wouldn't compromise on its security and allowing NATO to breath right on Russia's neck like this.


And I think this is where I will kindly disagree with you.

Let's not forget, this all started because Ukraine wanted to join the EU, and economic bloc. NATO didn't factor into this until Russia started supporting separatists rebels, who are really just Russian regulars pretending to be ukranian separatists.

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## Reichsmarschall

Foinikas said:


> NATO and EU leaders are like
> 
> "Our hearts and minds are with Ukraine"


Thots and prayers 🙏🙏

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## Tomcats

The Eagle said:


> Ukraine was used by NATO to threaten Russia


Considering how they are getting curbstomped, they certainly are a 'huge' threat..
This is an obvious Russian talking point which is blatantly false, the invasion was done for their own geopolitical interests in dominating that region at the end of the day. Call it what it is rather than this sugarcoated 'defense'. May as well start recognizing US involvement in Iraq as being just while we're at it.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496825424550285316

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## Zhukov

We should stop spamming the thread with highly biased one sided Opinnion debates and let room for News Posts

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## The SC

AZMwi said:


> so russians r using b-17 bombers now lol. it's a footage of a video game


That is a SU-25..seems you never played war videos in your life!

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## HammerHead081

Sad state of affairs. An absolutely unnecessary act of war just resulting in further worsening of situation all around the world. Useless loss of innocent lives. Terrible stuff from Russia.

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## TheNoob

That Guy said:


> Not really. He's made quite a few blunders, of which I will talk about once this invasion is over, and full occupation begins.



The occupation isn't happening, you and I both know that.  

This is outright intimidation to secure the borders once the negotiations start.


----------



## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496814903625228295

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## The Eagle

Tomcats said:


> Considering how they are getting curbstomped, they certainly are a 'huge' threat..



They just fall for the game and getting it in return. The region is threatened with war now. Furthermore, it seems like NATO will let Russia takeover or at-least control Ukraine and then an insurgency will be injected to pull in Russia for ever lasting war with guerillas & proxies. And the cycle continues.

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## Battlion25

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496825424550285316


Some have been gribbed by euphoria but conflict is far from over this is the first phase of engagement.. Resistence will get stiff with time as this is the first initial shock stage.. Russia will have to slowly grind them down conventionally will take time as in 2-3 years


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496798512872370178


----------



## AZMwi

The SC said:


> That is a SU-25..seems you never played war videos in your life!


just look at the video again and u will clearly see dozens of b-17 bombers in the night sky. its a footage from a video game.


----------



## ziaulislam

The Eagle said:


> They just fall for the game and getting it in return. The region is threatened with war now. Furthermore, it seems like NATO will let Russia takeover or at-least control Ukraine and then an insurgency will be injected to pull in Russia for ever lasting war with guerillas & proxies. And the cycle continues.


There wont be an insurgency in ukraine

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## Tomcats

The Eagle said:


> They just fall for the game and getting it in return. The region is threatened with war now. Furthermore, it seems like NATO will let Russia takeover or at-least control Ukraine and then an insurgency will be injected to pull in Russia for ever lasting war with guerillas & proxies. And the cycle continues.


Maybe, personally i don't see NATO having the willpower to support such an insurgency given the current geopolitical climate.


----------



## The Eagle

Members are advised to avoid posting dubious & non-credible sources which can lead to misunderstanding in just that fog of war. Mislead & dis-info may lead to a direct ban from the Forum. Keep it credible & valuable to discuss & update.

Regards,

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## lastofthepatriots

ziaulislam said:


> There wont be an insurgency in ukraine



They are already planning for it.


----------



## appliedfor

No passenger airplane in the whole region


----------



## The SC

The Eagle said:


> They just fall for the game and getting it in return. The region is threatened with war now. Furthermore, it seems like NATO will let Russia takeover or at-least control Ukraine and then an insurgency will be injected to pull in Russia for ever lasting war with guerillas & proxies. And the cycle continues.


The West started by disarming Ukraine from its nuclear weapons with a promise that it will join the EU.. but that never materialized..

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## The Eagle

ziaulislam said:


> There wont be an insurgency in ukraine





Tomcats said:


> Maybe, personally i don't see NATO having the willpower to support such an insurgency given the current geopolitical climate.



Never trust the gang with a history in M.E, Africa & Afghanistan. Even in some cases, they were arming Daesh type groups since that serves the purpose. It is in-fact about geo politics and whatever may be handy to harm the enemy.



The SC said:


> The West started by disarming Ukraine from its nuclear weapons with a promise that it will join the EU.. but that never materialized..



That is the West for you my friend. Others should learn as well. National Interest first.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496807856011677700


----------



## The Eagle

lastofthepatriots said:


> They are already planning for it.



I have seen videos of Ukrainian armed volunteer groups with Nazi flags as well. Catch the drift. Russians aren't going to allow it at all.


----------



## casual

That Guy said:


> And I think this is where I will kindly disagree with you.
> 
> Let's not forget, this all started because Ukraine wanted to join the EU, and economic bloc. NATO didn't factor into this until Russia started supporting separatists rebels, who are really just Russian regulars pretending to be ukranian separatists.


Eastern Ukraine was not onboard with joining the EU. Once their president got kicked out they revolted. Russian has popular support in eastern Ukraine. Then there was the Minsk agreement that was agreed and signed clearly baring Ukraine from seeking to join NATO in exchange for Russia promising not to invade. What did Ukraine do afterwards? Try to join NATO.

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## The Eagle

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496817235423371269

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## Indos

Daniel808 said:


> Doesnt have good air defence?
> 
> If Ukraine located in South East Asia, they would be one of the country with Strongest Air Defence Network in the region.
> 
> They have bunch of S-300V1, TOR, BUK, Strela, Tunguska, and many others.
> 
> They also have 69 unit 4-4.5th Gen combat aircraft (Sukhoi-27 & MIG-29) to have a good fight.
> 
> 
> But as you can see, Russian sucessfully obliterate their chain of command.
> If this continue, Russian would successfully turn Ukraine Armed Forces (UAF) become bunch of guerilla fighters in matter of week



Comparitavely to Russia. Always analyse using context if you want to interpret other member post instead of jumping with your comment while bringing South East Asia as comparison.


----------



## Windjammer

Khan to Putin 
Make sure the RD-93 Engine factory is protected and production doesn't slow down.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496781663388401667


----------



## HydNizam

Bengal71 said:


> Not too sure
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496808734236020748
> View attachment 818158




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496817235423371269


----------



## lastofthepatriots

Ukraine Government Announcement:

⚡️Ukrainian military holds the defense and protects the state from the Russian aggressor.

As of 14:00 on February 24 it is known that:

ОдинOne Russian K-52 helicopter and three helicopters near Gostomel were shot down in the Kyiv region near Mezhyhirya.
▫️Fighting is going on in Luhansk region. Near Happiness, the enemy continues to suffer losses.
▫️Border guards together with the Armed Forces and the National Guard hold the defense and repel attacks.
▫️Near the village. A fire broke out in Novozburivka, Skadovsk district, on the territory of the military unit located in the forest of Zburivsky forestry.
As a result of the shelling in Oleshkiv, 4 HRDF personnel were evacuated to a shelter.
▫️In the Odesa region in Ivaniv district, 10 servicemen received shrapnel wounds during the shelling of the A-2800 Armed Forces.
АнA military plane An-26 of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was shot down in the Kyiv region in the Obukhiv district near the village of Trypillya. Information about the wounded and dead is being clarified.
▫️Rescue services received a report that as a result of the explosion there was a fire in the city of Odessa on Novomoskovsk Street. Upon arrival at the scene of the call, rescuers set fire to the warehouses of one of the enterprises. The fire was extinguished. No one was killed or injured. Vehicles were evacuated from nearby areas.

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## Enigma SIG

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496826032317419520
That sounds... scary.


----------



## Daniel808

Looks like Russian gain Full Air-Superiority over Ukraine Capital, Kiev


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496825838679085058

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496822881342435329

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496825207432282121

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496822338427490306



The Eagle said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496817235423371269



Meanwhile


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496745304888016898


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

That Guy said:


> Russia lost a lot of hardware and is still losing hardware.
> 
> But I don't ever expect you to admit it, considering you're the type to push your propaganda, like you always do.
> 
> And no, Ukrainians aren't standing down just yet. You and I both know what you said is false.
> 
> But again, you won't admit it.


The US lost a stealth fighter/bomber over Serbia. So?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496825588077797376


----------



## Battlion25

casual said:


> Eastern Ukraine was not onboard with joining the EU. Once their president got kicked out they revolted. Russian has popular support in eastern Ukraine. Then there was the Minsk agreement that was agreed and signed clearly baring Ukraine from seeking to join NATO in exchange for Russia promising not to invade. What did Ukraine do afterwards? Try to join NATO.



The EU and NATO they will eventually have to settle score with Russia.. Ukraine was attacked due to them solely. They know that they are the enemy and eventually a battle they will have to face upto and this was their plan all along to end this Russian chapter in WW3 in order to ethblish another world order but they are waiting for economic crash an time it with that.. It is their long term stragetic plan to end this Russian chapter

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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496755609886019586


----------



## casual

lastofthepatriots said:


> Ukraine Government Announcement:
> 
> ⚡️Ukrainian military holds the defense and protects the state from the Russian aggressor.
> 
> As of 14:00 on February 24 it is known that:
> 
> ОдинOne Russian K-52 helicopter and three helicopters near Gostomel were shot down in the Kyiv region near Mezhyhirya.
> ▫️Fighting is going on in Luhansk region. Near Happiness, the enemy continues to suffer losses.
> ▫️Border guards together with the Armed Forces and the National Guard hold the defense and repel attacks.
> ▫️Near the village. A fire broke out in Novozburivka, Skadovsk district, on the territory of the military unit located in the forest of Zburivsky forestry.
> As a result of the shelling in Oleshkiv, 4 HRDF personnel were evacuated to a shelter.
> ▫️In the Odesa region in Ivaniv district, 10 servicemen received shrapnel wounds during the shelling of the A-2800 Armed Forces.
> АнA military plane An-26 of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was shot down in the Kyiv region in the Obukhiv district near the village of Trypillya. Information about the wounded and dead is being clarified.
> ▫️Rescue services received a report that as a result of the explosion there was a fire in the city of Odessa on Novomoskovsk Street. Upon arrival at the scene of the call, rescuers set fire to the warehouses of one of the enterprises. The fire was extinguished. No one was killed or injured. Vehicles were evacuated from nearby areas.


looks similar to the kind of statements the Afghan Gov give when they were getting mauled by the Taliban last Sept.


----------



## aryobarzan

Is President Ashraf Zelenskyy still in Ukraine or did he fly to Israel!!.😜

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496823026557542401


----------



## siegecrossbow

Salza said:


> Ukraine Ambassadar to India : lol
> 
> "Deeply Dissatisfied" With India Position: Ukraine Envoy As Russia Attacks​Ukraine envoy said, "The recommendations and statement of your Ministry of External affairs -- that was India is closely following the development of events. We are deeply dissatisfied with this position"​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Deeply Dissatisfied" With India Position: Ukraine Envoy As Russia Attacks
> 
> 
> Ukraine envoy Igor Polikha today "pleaded" for India's intervention in the conflict with Russia that started this morning, saying a "strong voice" of India might make Russian President Vladimir Putin "think".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ndtv.com



At the rate things are going it probably won't matter since a new Ukranian government will approve India's position.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496823911090204675
B-52 bomber operating over Poland, can carry up to 20 JASSM stealth cruise missiles

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## casual

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496823911090204675
> B-52 bomber operating over Poland, can carry up to 20 JASSM stealth cruise missiles


and within range of Russian S-400 systems.

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## Trango Towers

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496813729488543750


----------



## lastofthepatriots

casual said:


> looks similar to the kind of statements the Afghan Gov give when they were getting mauled by the Taliban last Sept.


Their army is still fighting. The Russians will bomb them for 1 week straight because they thought they will give up. The Russians are now preaching brotherhood and telling them they love them on loudspeakers in hopes of getting the Ukrainians to stop fighting.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496824052308140043
Another B-52 over Sweden


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496828882254974979


----------



## RescueRanger

I wrote this back in March 2020:



> *Security: *





> On the security front, with threats from hybrid warfare and frozen conflicts along the crucial eastern border with Balkan states, uncontrolled migration, risk of returning foreign fighters, asymmetric warfare and individual self-radicalisation; Europe faces some considerable security challenges over the coming years.
> *Furthermore, the European Union's membership of NATO means that Russia sees the Union as a strategic buffer for NATO and a challenge to its long-term interests to exert Russian influence in the region bordering eastern Europe.*
> 
> Russia has been engaged in testing the E.Us boundary lines and response times through snap exercises. *Moscow's doctrine of Anti access and area denial seeks to deny NATO forces any access in key areas bordering Russia such as the Black Sea, Baltic Sea, the far north and eastern Mediterranean by deploying missile batteries and anti-air defences.*
> 
> The hardening of Moscow's posture towards the EU has come as a result of the EU's stance towards Russia, which mirrors NATO policy of maintaining deterrence through superiority.
> 
> *The E.U's reliance on NATO's deterrence mantra is ultimately no guarantee against small scale surprise Russian offensives such as the one seen in South Ossetia, Georgia in 2008 and the support of partisan forces as witnessed in the Crimea, ultimately due to Russia's ability to leverage its nuclear assets to its tactical advantage.*
> Russia's ambition is to regain the strategic depth it lost with the dissolution of the Soviet Union should be a cause for concern for Europe.
> 
> In recent years, in light of political uncertainty in Europe and U.S frustrations in Afghanistan and Syria, Russia has capitalised on the chaos to showcase its role as a major power broker.
> Russia has engaged China and Pakistan to host talks with the Taliban in Afghanistan in at attempt gain importance in the international relations arena as a broker for peace and regional stability.
> 
> Russia continues to see the Georgian NATO membership bid as expansionism and thus will continue to pose a risk to E.U ambitions of stability and greater integration.
> 
> *With frozen conflicts in Georgia and Ukraine, the risk of a flashpoint along the eastern border is a risk that the EU must address by taking the Visegrad group of nations into confidence on EUs future stance on Russia.*
> Another area of concern for Europe comes from the growing instability the Mediterranean along the border of Greece and Turkey. The slow return of irregular migrants to Turkey from Greece has frustrated EU efforts to strengthen border controls.



Source to original post: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/why-...rders-with-europe.655070/page-6#post-12120749

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496820177908170753


----------



## Daniel808

Poor ukraine 😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496828613693521925

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496830739035439109


----------



## casual

lastofthepatriots said:


> Their army is still fighting. The Russians will bomb them for 1 week straight because they thought they will give up. The Russians are now preaching brotherhood and telling them they love them on loudspeakers in hopes of getting the Ukrainians to stop fighting.


maybe. or maybe Russian will bomb them for 1 year straight. We shall see. But one thing is clear, Ukrainian army will be destroyed shortly and turned into a rebel insurgency.


----------



## That Guy

ZeEa5KPul said:


> The US lost a stealth fighter/bomber over Serbia. So?


1 verses a lot.

You know that's not a good comparison.

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## arjunk

All these tweets taking forever to load because of that stupid cut submarine cable.


----------



## That Guy

TheNoob said:


> The occupation isn't happening, you and I both know that.
> 
> This is outright intimidation to secure the borders once the negotiations start.


No, only you seem to know that.

If Putin intends to install a new government, then an occupation will occur.

Russians are aiming for Kyiv, take a guess as to why.


----------



## 1ndy

For India, CAATSA waiver for Indian S400 purchase is a pipe dream now... 5 Billion dollars wasted.

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## Battlion25

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496812048868515847



Holy shxt


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496802689669292039

Here’s a man who knows he can’t defeat the US and NATO, therefore he has no choice but to threaten nuclear retaliation. 

Putin has a massive inferiority complex

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## sohail.ishaque

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496821171119079430
Can some1 check and confirm what is it ? is it 2 of the same country jets or a dog fight.
If you look closely, the above flying jet was going to right but then turned left as the below jet passes by it,.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496831308709994501


----------



## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496812048868515847


Fake!


The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496820177908170753



@The Eagle 

Please can you take action against this user for spreading misinformation, the second video is actually from an airshow. The member is actively either innocently or knowingly sharing fake news being peddled by dubious twitter accounts.

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## WinterFangs

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496812048868515847


From a rss account, 99% fake, even the comments suggest so

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## khail007

That Guy said:


> To Putin, I say, early congratulations on your victory, which everyone expected. Good luck with rebuilding your lost military capabilities after this war, as well as becoming a Chinese puppet state, since China is the only country capable of saving your economic collapse.



Sir, did you ever pay your tribute to USA/NATO what they did in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya?
In Ukraine, they played the same which they play with Pakistan from the decades of 60s to 80s and for same reason Pakistan though able to maintain its integrity but lost the Easter part.
USA/NATO policy is MAKE 'FRIENDS'/UTILIZE/DISCARD

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496833356247584772


----------



## MH.Yang

To the Ukrainian govt:

Ancient Chinese literature <韩非子·亡征>(About 280-233 BC).
国小而不处卑，力少而不畏强，无礼而侮大邻，贪愎而拙交者，可亡也。





__





韓非子/亡徵 - 维基文库，自由的图书馆







zh.m.wikisource.org





Translate:
Some relatively weak countries do not understand their own situation, do not know how to lower their posture when encountering a powerful country, their own military strength is not strong, they have to challenge a military power, and they are arrogant enough to offend powerful neighbors, do not know diplomacy, and are only greedy. This country is going to perish.

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## That Guy

casual said:


> Eastern Ukraine was not onboard with joining the EU. Once their president got kicked out they revolted. Russian has popular support in eastern Ukraine. Then there was the Minsk agreement that was agreed and signed clearly baring Ukraine from seeking to join NATO in exchange for Russia promising not to invade. What did Ukraine do afterwards? Try to join NATO.


So that means one region in a nation can hold the entire nation hostage?

The minsk agreement is shit, because the Russians pretty much proved why Ukraine should be joining nato.

Guess what? Ukraine only tried to join NATO after the Russians invaded and annexed crimea.

The amount of Russian and NATO propaganda being regurgitated on here is mind numbing.


----------



## Abid123

That Guy said:


> To Putin, I say, early congratulations on your victory, which everyone expected. Good luck with rebuilding your lost military capabilities after this war, as well as becoming a Chinese puppet state, since China is the only country capable of saving your economic collapse.


Ukraine has no chance.


----------



## maverick1977

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496812048868515847


for real ?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496827790318088193


----------



## khail007

hydrabadi_arab said:


> I don't know where Ukraine went wrong. Its a massive country with 45 million population yet is falling like flies.



Ukraine started to put more confidence in USA/NATO than herself.
USA/NATO did the same like this to Ukraine, 'Sher bun sher, assi teray naal aan, fikr naa kareen'.

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## casual

That Guy said:


> So that means one region in a nation can hold the entire nation hostage?
> 
> The minsk agreement is shit, because the Russians pretty much proved why Ukraine should be joining nato.
> 
> Guess what? Ukraine only tried to join NATO after the Russians invaded and annexed crimea.
> 
> The amount of Russian and NATO propaganda being regurgitated on here is mind numbing.


You are disputing facts. Minsk agreement was signed after Russians invaded and annexed Crimea. Ukraine should have known better then to renege.

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## That Guy

khail007 said:


> Sir, did you ever pay your tribute to USA/NATO what they did in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya?
> In Ukraine, they played the same which they play with Pakistan from the decades of 60s to 80s and for same reason Pakistan though able to maintain its integrity but lost the Easter part.
> USA/NATO policy is MAKE 'FRIENDS'/UTILIZE/DISCARD


Do you just post, without reading the thread?


----------



## Han Patriot

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496802689669292039
> 
> Here’s a man who knows he can’t defeat the US and NATO, therefore he has no choice but to threaten nuclear retaliation.
> 
> Putin has a massive inferiority complex


Yah says the man who said US will use nukes on China if we invade Taiwan or sink some carriers.

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## _Nabil_




----------



## The SC

maverick1977 said:


> for real ?


It seems so..


----------



## RescueRanger

Boris Johnson " We are not talking about a conflict in a far away country, we are talking about a conflict in a European country and friendly country". Loosly translated "we are talking about white blood here, you know when we bomb the shit out of brown people far far away... that's okay, but when white blood is spilt, we get really mad!"

But for all their bluster, this is the third time the Kremlin has called NATO's bluff. #Check & #Mate !

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## That Guy

casual said:


> You are disputing facts. Minsk agreement was signed after Russians invaded and annexed Crimea. Ukraine should have known better then to renege.


I never said Minsk agreement was signed before. My point is that Russia has proven time and again that it cannot be trusted. Why would Ukraine ever stick to an agreement made in bad faith?

Ukraine had no choice but to seek membership, because it was clear that Russia was seeking to annex more Ukrainian territory.



RescueRanger said:


> Boris Johnson " We are not talking about a conflict in a far away country, we are talking about a conflict in a European country and friendly country". Loosly translated "we are talking about white blood here, you know when we bomb the shit out of brown people far far away... that's okay, but when white blood is spilt, we get really mad!"
> 
> But for all their bluster, this is the third time the Kremlin has called NATO's bluff. #Check & #Mate !


I think you're misunderstanding something.

There is no NATO bluff, because NATO didn't promise to defend Ukraine militarily. Ukraine is not a NATO member, so no, there is no #check & #mate.

On the topic of white blood, that I agree with, which is why I don't really care who wins or loses this war.

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## SuvarnaTeja

Dalit said:


> Sure. RSS pandit has turned anti-Russia.



SS and RSS have always been anti-Russia.


----------



## KAL-EL

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496802689669292039
> 
> Here’s a man who knows he can’t defeat the US and NATO, therefore he has no choice but to threaten nuclear retaliation.
> 
> Putin has a massive inferiority complex



And rational people in the real world know that Putin would be nuked back to Oblivion should he launch a nuclear first strike.

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## _Nabil_

يغزو أوكرانيا وروتينه الرئاسي مستقر.. بوتين يلتقي عمر خان | في وقت غزوه لـ#أوكرانيا.. جدول #بوتين الرئاسي منتظم: التقى رئيس وزراء #باكستان في #الكريملين #العربية | By ‎قناة العربية Al Arabiya‎ | Facebook


519K views, 1.9K likes, 44 loves, 165 comments, 60 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from قناة العربية Al Arabiya: في وقت غزوه لـ#أوكرانيا.. جدول #بوتين الرئاسي منتظم: التقى رئيس وزراء #باكستان في...




fb.watch




Putin didn't changed his schedule 😁

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496837912042029062

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## RescueRanger

That Guy said:


> I never said Minsk agreement was signed before. My point is that Russia has proven time and again that it cannot be trusted. Why would Ukraine ever stick to an agreement made in bad faith?
> 
> Ukraine had no choice but to seek membership, because it was clear that Russia was seeking to annex more Ukrainian territory.
> 
> 
> I think you're misunderstanding something.
> 
> There is no NATO bluff, because NATO didn't promise to defend Ukraine militarily. Ukraine is not a NATO member, so no, there is no #check & #mate.
> 
> On the topic of white blood, that I agree with, which is why I don't really care who wins or loses this war.



I refer to the mantra used by EU when referring to its engagement of Visegrad group of nations into it's fold with the premise of "NATO" deterrence. Remember 2008? The EU failed to capitalize the developments in Maldova and Bulgaria, too late now.

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## That Guy

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496837912042029062


China is just waiting for the right moment to swoop in and become the real winner of this.

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## Abid123

I knew this was going to happen. Was only a matter of time.


----------



## The Eagle

@The SC if you are not sure about the source, don't share. Last reminder.

Regards,

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## That Guy

RescueRanger said:


> I refer to the mantra used by EU when referring to its engagement of Visegrad group of nations into it's fold with the premise of "NATO" deterrence. Remember 2008? The EU failed to capitalize the developments in Maldova and Bulgaria, too late now.


Words and capabilities are different, you and I both know it.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496836572418768896


----------



## RescueRanger

That Guy said:


> Words and capabilities are different, you and I both know it.


Agreed and we have seen action in 2008, 2019, 2020 and 2022. No point locking the stable door after the horse has bolted.

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## khail007

KAL-EL said:


> President Biden can yap he wants
> 
> It doesn't change the fact that Ukraine is not a NATO member.



The issue arises, when USA/NATO started to bait Ukraine for membership.
The USA doesn't want any scoundrel outside their doorsteps, so neither does Russia. It is that simple to keep regions stabilized.
Wherever one is bait for polarization, certainly there will be problems as we are witnessing one here.

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## The Eagle

That Guy said:


> There is no NATO bluff, because NATO didn't promise to defend Ukraine militarily. Ukraine is not a NATO member, so no, there is no #check & #mate.



But,

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496730654699966468

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## casual

That Guy said:


> I never said Minsk agreement was signed before. My point is that Russia has proven time and again that it cannot be trusted. Why would Ukraine ever stick to an agreement made in bad faith?
> 
> Ukraine had no choice but to seek membership, because it was clear that Russia was seeking to annex more Ukrainian territory.


Because the alternative is war and getting steamrolled by Russian tanks? Don't ever assume Ukraine is equal to Russia. It's Russia who holds all the leverage in negotiations. 

Also, NATO was never going to do anything to help Ukraine but Ukrainian gov were too blind by western propaganda.

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## The SC

The Eagle said:


> @The SC if you are not sure about the source, don't share. Last reminder.
> 
> Regards,


About which source?

For the parachutist ..there is a video on YouTube too.. I have provided it..

Nothing is sure.. there are conflicting reports here and there.. I'm providing the sources.. Twitter should be reminded..


----------



## F-22Raptor

KAL-EL said:


> And rational people in the real world know that Putin will be nuked back to Oblivion





KAL-EL said:


> And rational people in the real world know that Putin would be nuked back to Oblivion should he launch a nuclear first strike.




It’s sad that so many innocents had to die today because of Putins inferiority complex. He desperately wants to be recognized as an equal to the US, yet knows they never will. Therefore he has to take his frustrations out on a weak foe. 

To be honest, Putin sounded senile and out of touch with reality in his hour long rant.

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## That Guy

The Eagle said:


> But,
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496730654699966468


That's not NATO, that's three nations.

Not the same thing.

Let's talk when and if Russia actually invades _a nato nation._

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## F-22Raptor

That Guy said:


> That's not NATO, that's three nations.
> 
> Not the same thing.
> 
> Let's talk when and if Russia actually invades _a nato nation._




Putin won’t even lay a finger on the Baltics. That’s really all that needs to be said about how Putin feels about taking on NATO.


----------



## The Eagle

The SC said:


> About which source?
> 
> For the parachutist ..there is a video on YouTube too.. I have provided it..
> 
> Nothing is sure.. there are conflicting reports here and there..



ٖFor every source which is being pointed with current affairs. If a single one is proven wrong; members shall know that action will be taken accordingly. Do not share without proper home work & using a credible source.

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## RescueRanger

Plenty of Air Surveillance assets from NATO in the skies above Moldova and Poland





__





ADS-B Exchange - track aircraft live


ADS-B Exchange - track aircraft live - aircraft flight history




globe.adsbexchange.com

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496807420735201284

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## The Eagle

That Guy said:


> That's not NATO, that's three nations.
> 
> Not the same thing.
> 
> Let's talk when and if Russia actually invades _a nato nation._



I knew you will say that. Lest not get into fight over particular words. An ally, a friend and the one being promised is just invaded. That's what it appears. NATO or UK US or not.... no help on the ground.

A Ukraine should have understood that too...








NATO warns Russia of ‘high price’ for any attack on Ukraine


30 allies together represent more than 50 percent of the global economy NATO warns Russia of ‘high price’ for any attack on Ukraine Economic sanctions on table as allied foreign ministers met in Latvia to discuss new border threat. NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg | Gints Ivuskans/AFP...



defence.pk





Mere economic and political defence which was taken wrongly by Ukraine. What if there's no Ukraine anymore? But this is all NATO or individual West for you.

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## monitor



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## Beidou2020

KAL-EL said:


> And rational people in the real world know that Putin would be nuked back to Oblivion should he launch a nuclear first strike.



Unhinged post. Unbecoming of a PDF Think Tank analyst.

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## KAL-EL

Beidou2020 said:


> Unhinged post. Unbecoming of a PDF Think Tank analyst.



Unhinged to a hyper nationalist propagandist like you maybe.

It was a statement of fact.

no *rational* person outside of the PDF fantasy world in the *real world* would state against the obvious.

Any nuclear first strike on another country with a massive nuclear Arsenal would result in massive retaliation.

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## The SC

The Eagle said:


> ٖFor every source which is being pointed with current affairs. If a single one is proven wrong; members shall know that action will be taken accordingly. Do not share without proper home work & using a credible source.


Can you point me to the tweet in question.. I will verify if it is true ..if not I will delete it..


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496842410483011585


----------



## Beidou2020

F-22Raptor said:


> It’s sad that so many innocents had to die today because of Putins inferiority complex. He desperately wants to be recognized as an equal to the US, yet knows they never will. Therefore he has to take his frustrations out on a weak foe.
> 
> To be honest, Putin sounded senile and out of touch with reality in his hour long rant.



So many innocents had to die? Save the crocodile tears you morally bankrupt fraud.

American terrorists have slaughtered millions in Korea, Vietnam, Serbia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Yemen.

American terrorists have dropped Agent Orange, depleted uranium and white phosphorus on civilian populations causing millions of disturbing birth defects.



KAL-EL said:


> Unhinged to a hyper nationalist propagandist like you maybe.
> 
> It was a statement of fact.
> 
> no *rational* person outside of the PDF fantasy world in the *real world* would state against the obvious.
> 
> Any nuclear first strike on another country with a massive nuclear Arsenal would result in massive retaliation.



Yikes

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496841933230063620

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## Patriot forever

KAL-EL said:


> Unhinged to a hyper nationalist propagandist like you maybe.
> 
> It was a statement of fact.
> 
> no *rational* person outside of the PDF fantasy world can argue. Any nuclear first strike on another country with a massive nuclear Arsenal would result in massive retaliation.



Major countries don't fight war directly. 

Ukraine was just a proxy front like many other small weak nations that were destroyed. 

That's all. 

There is only one thing that is Geopolitics, rest of the mantra is just crocodile tears.

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## KAL-EL

Patriot forever said:


> Major countries don't fight war directly.



Of course, major countries do not directly go to war.

But unfortunately, there are people here who treat war more like a fictional video game.

For example, they think one massive nuclear-armed country can nuke another massively nuclear-armed country without expecting retaliation.


----------



## Dual Wielder

F-22Raptor said:


> It’s sad that so many innocents had to die today because of Putins inferiority complex. He desperately wants to be recognized as an equal to the US, yet knows they never will. Therefore he has to take his frustrations out on a weak foe.
> 
> To be honest, Putin sounded senile and out of touch with reality in his hour long rant.



Ironic coming from someone whose country invaded/interfered with over 70+ other countries post WW2 only to further itself by plundering and looting others like the native Indians before them who were almost extinct to fuel your greed. lets not kid ourselves like your country is a saint where its morals are not to be questioned..

P.s I don't condone Putin's move either..

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## Invicta

If the situation keeps going the same way it's only a matter of time before the whole world is engulfed in flames. This might be an attempt by the Russians to check how far they can push before they are pushed back - it takes one small miscalculation for one party to act with excessive aggression and things can easily spiral out of control.

This reminds me of the Cuban missile crisis, Putin wants a legacy, this might be it.

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## Trango Towers

Lessons for Iran

Would Russia had invaded if Ukraine had nukes? 

Iran vs america+Israel+arabs

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## MH.Yang

The exchange rate of CNY has risen to 6.3016.

The dollar is depreciating relative to CNY.
European funds did not go to USA, but to China.

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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496844617974702080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496848724739432460

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496839639180709888


----------



## That Guy

The Eagle said:


> I knew you will say that. Lest not get into fight over particular words. An ally, a friend and the one being promised is just invaded. That's what it appears. NATO or UK US or not.... no help on the ground.
> 
> A Ukraine should have understood that too...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO warns Russia of ‘high price’ for any attack on Ukraine
> 
> 
> 30 allies together represent more than 50 percent of the global economy NATO warns Russia of ‘high price’ for any attack on Ukraine Economic sanctions on table as allied foreign ministers met in Latvia to discuss new border threat. NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg | Gints Ivuskans/AFP...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mere economic and political defence which was taken wrongly by Ukraine. What if there's no Ukraine anymore? But this is all NATO or individual West for you.


A high economic price, no one ever said NATO would militarily confront Russia in order to save Ukraine, which is why Ukraine was so desperate to gain membership, because it knew an invasion was coming.

Also, of the three nations mentioned, one is the Russian Federation, so your example doesn't really make sense here.

If there is no Ukraine anymore, that just makes Russia's neighbours all the more likely to join NATO, Finland and other European nations are already now in talks about joining, and they point out Russian actions in Ukraine as the cause.

Also, I disagree that these are "merely" sanctions. Russia's economy is on the verge of collapse right now. The EU has just banned market access to Russia, and stopped all trade with Russia. Russia can use it's oil leverage, but that will just make sure the EU will expedite it's move away from Russian oil and gas.

Before you mention Russian gas, think about it this way, why doesn't Pakistan trade with India, despite it being cheap and economically beneficial? Because it's a matter of sovereignty and Pakistan fully expects India to use it's trade leverage against Pakistani interests. The Europeans won't compromise their sovereignty just to pay cheap gas prices.

Russians made a massive blunder by thinking their gas leverage would save them from an economic depression. The Russians have pretty much guaranteed that the Europeans never trust them, and they will guaranteed to lead Europe away from Russia.


----------



## RescueRanger

Erdogan's statement is


The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496832306044018689
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496827774207680513



@The Eagle 

The first tweet he has shared is literally from a documentary:








The War of Chimeras (2017) - IMDb


The War of Chimeras: Directed by Anastasiia Starozhitska, Mariia Starozhitska. The story of war, love and death that was documented by the immediate participants of events. Off screen and later on it are the two - a boy and a girl. He volunteered for the front; she went to the place just after...




m.imdb.com





Please review, he is spamming the thread with nonsensical misinformation.

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## jaybird

Trango Towers said:


> Lessons for Iran
> 
> Would Russia had invaded if Ukraine had nukes?
> 
> Iran vs america+Israel+arabs



Lesson also for Pakistan.

You know what to do when other countries "guarantee" your sovereignty will be respected and prosperity for the better future if you give up your nuclear arsenal.

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## The Eagle

That Guy said:


> The Russians have pretty much guaranteed that the Europeans never trust them, and they will guaranteed to lead Europe away from Russia.



I will only quote this part and refer to what trust means when it comes to individual's interests. Ukraine learnt the hard way.














That Guy said:


> Also, of the three nations mentioned, one is the Russian Federation, so your example doesn't really make sense here.
> 
> If there is no Ukraine anymore, that just makes Russia's neighbours all the more likely to join NATO, Finland and other European nations are already now in talks about joining, and they point out Russian actions in Ukraine as the cause.



It never made any sense but columns are moving. Russia is not alone in anti NATO bloc.



That Guy said:


> The Europeans won't compromise their sovereignty just to pay cheap gas prices.



And Russia does not seems to be doing so as well. No compromise in lieu of gas. As you said about Pakistan India. No compromise.

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496825900087848961


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496850182746820610


----------



## RescueRanger

So the UK sent over 2,000 NLAW (Next gen Light Anti Tank Weapon) units to Ukraine between 17th and 19th Jan 2022.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1483899430378127365

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484864058645958656

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## Song Hong

Kiev defence was breached. It is a matter of time Russia control Kiev.






乌克兰国家边防局：俄军正突破基辅州防守







www.guancha.cn

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## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496848899612438530
Soumy has fallen

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## Khanate

That Guy said:


> I think you're misunderstanding something.
> 
> There is no NATO bluff, because NATO didn't promise to defend Ukraine militarily. Ukraine is not a NATO member, so no, there is no #check & #mate.
> 
> On the topic of white blood, that I agree with, which is why I don't really care who wins or loses this war.




A bit late for those proclamations.

Ukraine, like Georgia, and Pakistan before, were led to believe that territorial integrity means something. But as Pakistan in East Pakistan, Georgia in Abkhazia/Ossetia and now Ukraine is finding out that it is all just lip service.

I cannot fathom the betrayal Ukrainians must be feeling right now.

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## WinterFangs

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496852226232373250

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## The Eagle

_Nabil_ said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496848899612438530
> Soumy has fallen
> 
> 
> View attachment 818206



At-least post with google translation so others understand as well. 

"Urgent | Interfax on the mayor of Sumy: Russian forces entered the city and took control of the Kiev-Moscow highway."

This is what I think it says.

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## _Nabil_

Hustoomeel airport 25k from Kiev has fallen


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496852779972792321





Doesn't share the translation for me ....


----------



## Kraetoz

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496802689669292039
> 
> Here’s a man who knows he can’t defeat the US and NATO, therefore he has no choice but to threaten nuclear retaliation.
> 
> Putin has a massive inferiority complex



Does that mean US is massively inferior any way because they are the only country in history to actually use nuclear weapons.

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## ZeEa5KPul

That Guy said:


> 1 verses a lot.
> 
> You know that's not a good comparison.


Alright, Ukraine a tougher nut to crack than the mighty foes America has faced like Grenada. They are, after all, armed with Russian air defenses - among the best in the world. They'll get a shot or two in. But their fate is a foregone conclusion.

Just because someone manages to land a punch or two against Mike Tyson doesn't mean they won't get knocked out.

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## Han Patriot

That Guy said:


> A high economic price, no one ever said NATO would militarily confront Russia in order to save Ukraine, which is why Ukraine was so desperate to gain membership, because it knew an invasion was coming.
> 
> Also, of the three nations mentioned, one is the Russian Federation, so your example doesn't really make sense here.
> 
> If there is no Ukraine anymore, that just makes Russia's neighbours all the more likely to join NATO, Finland and other European nations are already now in talks about joining, and they point out Russian actions in Ukraine as the cause.
> 
> Also, I disagree that these are "merely" sanctions. Russia's economy is on the verge of collapse right now. The EU has just banned market access to Russia, and stopped all trade with Russia. Russia can use it's oil leverage, but that will just make sure the EU will expedite it's move away from Russian oil and gas.
> 
> Before you mention Russian gas, think about it this way, why doesn't Pakistan trade with India, despite it being cheap and economically beneficial? Because it's a matter of sovereignty and Pakistan fully expects India to use it's trade leverage against Pakistani interests. The Europeans won't compromise their sovereignty just to pay cheap gas prices.
> 
> Russians made a massive blunder by thinking their gas leverage would save them from an economic depression. The Russians have pretty much guaranteed that the Europeans never trust them, and they will guaranteed to lead Europe away from Russia.


Why do you think Putin rushed to Beijing before pulling this stunt? Why did he invade After the Olympics!

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## PakCan

Russians going for a regime change or only planning on taking over Donetsk and Luhansk?


----------



## That Guy

The Eagle said:


> I will only quote this part and refer to what trust means when it comes to individual's interests. Ukraine learnt the hard way.
> 
> View attachment 818203
> 
> 
> View attachment 818204
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It never made any sense but columns are moving. Russia is not alone in anti NATO bloc.
> 
> 
> 
> And Russia does not seems to be doing so as well. No compromise in lieu of gas. As you said about Pakistan India. No compromise.


Sure, I agree.

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## farok84

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496839773465755649

Reactions: Love Love:
1 | Haha Haha:
16 | Wow Wow:
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## Reddington

Zelensky's declaration in Munich Security Conference that the *1994 Budapest Memorandum* be revised and Ukraine should be nuclear armed put the final nail in the coffin of whatever peace that Ukraine might have obtained from Russia.

It seems like the world is once again entering into the Great Power competition. US-China in Pacific and US-Russia in Europe.

Anyways war/tension in Europe will finally give the Muslim world some breathing space and give the African continent some respite from neo-colonialist powers.

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## MH.Yang

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496802689669292039
> 
> Here’s a man who knows he can’t defeat the US and NATO, therefore he has no choice but to threaten nuclear retaliation.
> 
> Putin has a massive inferiority complex



Threatening to use nuclear weapons = inferiority complex? 

If I remember correctly, every time we talk about China's anti-ship ballistic missiles, people from some countries threaten to use nuclear weapons against China.

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## That Guy

Khanate said:


> A bit late for those proclamations.
> 
> Ukraine, like Georgia, and Pakistan before, were led to believe that territorial integrity means something. But as Pakistan in East Pakistan, Georgia in Abkhazia/Ossetia and now Ukraine is finding out that it is all just lip service.
> 
> I cannot fathom the betrayal Ukrainians must be feeling right now.


What betrayal, no military response was promised.

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## The Eagle

PakCan said:


> Russians going for a regime change or only planning on taking over Donetsk and Luhansk?



Given the rules and how I see it, this is what seems to be planned. In the end, no one could object since this is exactly being done by NATO/US/West into other regions. Helping the oppressed and strengthening them to fight for their rights.

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## Mohsin A

PakCan said:


> Russians going for a regime change or only planning on taking over Donetsk and Luhansk?



Regime change makes sense as the West installed their Zio puppet Volodymyr Zelenskyy Ghani who dispite multiple warnings is hell bent on making Ukraine join NATO.....even if it means his country gets shafted. Regime change and a change in the Ukrainian direction re NATO is the only way for lasting peace in the region. Otherwise WW3.

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## RescueRanger

Dow Jones down 852 points down = 2.5% since opening.

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## That Guy

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Alright, Ukraine a tougher nut to crack than the mighty foes America has faced like Grenada. They are, after all, armed with Russian air defenses - among the best in the world. They'll get a shot or two in. But their fate is a foregone conclusion.
> 
> Just because someone manages to land a punch or two against Mike Tyson doesn't mean they won't get knocked out.


you really don't read other people's comments, do you? I've noticed that about you.

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## ZeEa5KPul

Reddington said:


> Zelensky's declaration in Munich Security Conference that the *1994 Budapest Memorandum* be revised and Ukraine should be nuclear armed put the final nail in the coffin of whatever peace that Ukraine might have obtained from Russia.
> 
> It seems like the world is once again entering into the Great Power competition. US-China in Pacific and US-Russia in Europe.
> 
> Anyways war/tension in Europe will finally give the Muslim world some breathing space and give the African continent some respite from neo-colonialist powers.


Nazis have infiltrated the Zelensky regime. People like that having access to nuclear weapons is completely unacceptable.

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## That Guy

Han Patriot said:


> Why do you think Putin rushed to Beijing before pulling this stunt? Why did he invade After the Olympics!


Don't know about rushing, but it's not a coincidence that Russia and China signed a massive gas deal before the invasion began.

China is the ultimate winner here.

Ukraine may lose its sovereignty. Russia won the war, but got badly beat up, and it's economy is in shambles.

Moving forward, I wouldn't be surprised if Moscow ends up capitulating to multiple Chinese demands and signing agreements that favor China more than they do Moscow.

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## R Wing

F-22Raptor said:


> It’s sad that so many innocents had to die today because of Putins inferiority complex. He desperately wants to be recognized as an equal to the US, yet knows they never will. Therefore he has to take his frustrations out on a weak foe.
> 
> To be honest, Putin sounded senile and out of touch with reality in his hour long rant.



LOL. The level of self-delusion is just incredible in Americans. I don't blame you for being so naive, but it's mind-boggling.

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## RescueRanger

Website for the Russian Defense Ministry hit by DDOS:



https://eng.mil.ru/







__





Eng.mil.ru Down or Just Me ?


Eng down? Check whether Eng.mil.ru server is down right now or having outage problems for everyone or just for you.




www.isitdownrightnow.com


----------



## MH.Yang

RescueRanger said:


> Dow Jones down 852 points down = 2.5% since opening.


Since the outbreak of the crisis in Ukraine, NASDAQ has fallen from 16000 to 12700.

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## RescueRanger

AP:

Russia says it destroyed 74 Ukraine facilities​








Live updates: Ukraine diplomat urges China to talk to Putin


The latest on the Russia-Ukraine crisis : TOKYO — The Ukrainian ambassador to Japan is urging China to join international efforts to stop the Russian “massacre” in his country amid Beijing’s lack of criticism of Moscow’s actions.




apnews.com


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

That Guy said:


> you really don't read other people's comments, do you? I've noticed that about you.


No, I did read your posts. You claim that Russia's military will get smashed by Ukraine because they managed to down a couple of choppers. I made a point that even the vaunted US military you consider the gold standard suffers losses in war against far lesser enemies.

Even those supposed losses might be fake since Ukrainian accounts have been exposed posting footage from Syria.

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## Englishman

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496823911090204675
> B-52 bomber operating over Poland, can carry up to 20 JASSM stealth cruise missiles



What you yanks planning to do with those?

Hit Somalia? Malawi?

Any other 3rd world countries you fancy a go at?

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## _Nabil_

*Russians Tanks in Soumy



 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496855517330915330*


_Nabil_ said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496848899612438530
> Soumy has fallen
> 
> 
> View attachment 818206


----------



## R Wing

casual said:


> You are disputing facts. Minsk agreement was signed after Russians invaded and annexed Crimea. Ukraine should have known better then to renege.



This guy you're engaging with can't access the higher consciousness required to see American hypocrisy. 

All these recent events are just symptoms. The root of this conflict is NATO eastward expansion (not specific to Ukraine) after committing that it wouldn't (been happening over the past two decades) and the CIA-backed regime change effort in Kiev a few years ago that forced Putin to annex Crimea. Everybody conveniently forgets this uncalled for American intervention that precipitated all these events.

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## obj 705A

This one is also beautiful


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496728666339876869

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## R Wing

Englishman said:


> What you yanks planning to do with those?
> 
> Hit Somalia? Malawi?
> 
> Any other 3rd world countries you fancy a go at?



Maybe Syria or Libya. Pathetic yanks.


----------



## RescueRanger

*Lloyds Bank (UK) alerted that they are preparing for a massive cyber attack against its accounts - Source: Sky News*

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## ZeEa5KPul

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496823911090204675
> B-52 bomber operating over Poland, can carry up to 20 JASSM stealth cruise missiles


Do something with them, I dare you.

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## That Guy

RescueRanger said:


> Dow Jones down 852 points down = 2.5% since opening.


Expected.

Meanwhile Russian markets are down 50% and still falling fast.

Which was also expected.


----------



## The Eagle

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496857444013727751


----------



## RescueRanger

That Guy said:


> Expected.
> 
> Meanwhile Russian markets are down 50% and still falling fast.
> 
> Which was also expected.



Russian fiscal situation is insignificant in the grand scheme of things. What the west needs to do and is doing is targeting the cash funnel outside of Russia.

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## That Guy

ZeEa5KPul said:


> No, I did read your posts. You claim that Russia's military will get smashed by Ukraine because they managed to down a couple of choppers. I made a point that even the vaunted US military you consider the gold standard suffers losses in war against far lesser enemies.
> 
> Even those supposed losses might be fake since Ukrainian accounts have been exposed posting footage from Syria.


I literally never said that, stop lying.

@The Eagle please deal with this troll, he's harassing everyone, and purposefully trolling and lying.

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## RescueRanger

The Eagle said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496857444013727751


Look like conscripts and volunteers, two are female. I do feel sorry for Ukrainians right now.

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## _Nabil_

Ukrainian army convoy destroyed by Russian air strikes




__





Watch







fb.watch


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## RealNapster

WinterFangs said:


> WTF, before I slept all it was , was putin announced war, I wake up and it’s gone worse, plane shot etc.



So what do you think war means ?

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## ZeEa5KPul

That Guy said:


> I literally never said that, stop lying.
> 
> @The Eagle please deal with this troll, he's harassing everyone, and purposefully trolling and lying.





That Guy said:


> To Putin, I say, early congratulations on your victory, which everyone expected. *Good luck with rebuilding your lost military capabilities after this war*


This clearly implies you expect Russia to suffer heavy losses. Do you want to revise what you've said?


That Guy said:


> Meanwhile Russian markets are down 50% and still falling fast.


Proof?

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## nufix

The Eagle said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496857444013727751



The way they stand and their postures kinda tell me that they are civilians turned soldiers. Or conscript at least.

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## RescueRanger

Live updates: Russia invades Ukraine


Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a military operation in Ukraine early Thursday, and forces have entered the country from three sides. Follow here for the latest updates.




edition.cnn.com


----------



## That Guy

RescueRanger said:


> Russian fiscal situation is insignificant in the grand scheme of things. What the west needs to do and is doing is targeting the cash funnel outside of Russia.





RescueRanger said:


> Russian fiscal situation is insignificant in the grand scheme of things. What the west needs to do and is doing is targeting the cash funnel outside of Russia.


The thumbs up button and negative rating button need to be moved.

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## The Eagle

@ZeEa5KPul always quote the particular part of any post and discuss the same to avoid confusion.

@That Guy I think there's bit of confusion due to the words being used. I have gone through all those posts. Wait for him to explain further his point of view.

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## _Nabil_

_

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496842698568998913_


_Nabil_ said:


> Ukrainian army convoy destroyed by Russian air strikes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fb.watch


----------



## R Wing

ZeEa5KPul said:


> No, I did read your posts. You claim that Russia's military will get smashed by Ukraine because they managed to down a couple of choppers. I made a point that even the vaunted US military you consider the gold standard suffers losses in war against far lesser enemies.
> 
> Even those supposed losses might be fake since Ukrainian accounts have been exposed posting footage from Syria.



Exactly.

That Guy has been pointing out flaws in everybody's logic without considering his own biases. 

Russia will suffer losses, sure, but it obviously gamed this scenario and likely had excellent intel on Ukrainian defenses. Secondly, we can argue all we want about how big/bad the losses will be - time will tell if Russia loses significant military capacity after this (as That Guy is forcing everybody to believe) or if it'll be minor losses that it can recoup due to closer economic ties with China, etc. 

Not everything is about immediate losses and gains. These are long games. The US and NATO only have themselves to blame for the pain being inflicted on the Ukrainians.

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## TopGun786

Meanwhile neighbours

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## ZeEa5KPul

RescueRanger said:


> Website for the Russian Defense Ministry hit by DDOS:
> 
> 
> 
> https://eng.mil.ru/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eng.mil.ru Down or Just Me ?
> 
> 
> Eng down? Check whether Eng.mil.ru server is down right now or having outage problems for everyone or just for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.isitdownrightnow.com


RT.com is down as well. If only the Ukrainians could take down Russian airpower like they take down Russian websites, they'd stand a chance in this war.

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## The Eagle

RescueRanger said:


> Look like conscripts and volunteers, two are female. I do feel sorry for Ukrainians right now.



Agreed. That reminds me of those videos shared few days earlier where volunteers were preparing for war. CNN or BBC were showing like some strong groups being trained.

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## R Wing

That Guy said:


> No, it dictates we have economic and military relationships with everyone who is willing, whom we can benefit from.
> 
> No more, no less. Which is why I cringe when Pakistanis talk about brotherhood and friendship, because no such thing exists in geopolitics.



One of the more reasonable things you've said today.


----------



## RescueRanger

TopGun786 said:


> View attachment 818213
> Meanwhile neighbours



Hahah this is very true, if any of you have a Getter account just have a read of some of the Bakth messages there. #Confused people .

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## That Guy

R Wing said:


> Exactly.
> 
> That Guy has been pointing out flaws in everybody's logic without considering his own biases.
> 
> Russia will suffer losses, sure, but it obviously gamed this scenario and likely had excellent intel on Ukrainian defenses. Secondly, we can argue all we want about how big/bad the losses will be - time will tell if Russia loses significant military capacity after this (as That Guy is forcing everybody to believe) or if it'll be minor losses that it can recoup due to closer economic ties with China, etc.
> 
> Not everything is about immediate losses and gains. These are long games. The US and NATO only have themselves to blame for the pain being inflicted on the Ukrainians.


Everyone here is saying, NATO BAD, RUSSIA GOOD, while I literally do not care who wins or loses.

Yet, I'm the one who's biased.

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## ZeEa5KPul

The Eagle said:


> @ZeEa5KPul always quote the particular part of any post and discuss the same to avoid confusion.


I did so here:








Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Look like conscripts and volunteers, two are female. I do feel sorry for Ukrainians right now. Agreed. That reminds me of those videos shared few days earlier where volunteers were preparing for war. CNN or BBC were showing like some strong groups being trained.



defence.pk


----------



## That Guy

R Wing said:


> One of the more reasonable things you've said today.


🙄

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## _Nabil_

@The Eagle 

Can you make this thread to war news only? 

No comments, analysis, drama, chit chat, ....

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## Arulmozhi Varman

Vapnope said:


> Why Turkey? Why not Greece?


 Cos I did not find Greek members here. He was , as many here, rightly concerned about the Ukraine situation. This is pure arrogance from the part of Russia, whatever their problems with Ukraine. 
But as a member of NATO, turkey (and other members) can do something about it. If a greek or US guy had posted an post expressing concern I would have asked the same question.


----------



## KAL-EL

RescueRanger said:


> Russian fiscal situation is insignificant in the grand scheme of things. What the west needs to do and is doing is targeting the cash funnel outside of Russia.



Not sure what the West has planned, but it just may come to that.

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## R Wing

QWECXZ said:


> To acquire nuclear weapons? Yes, I do agree with you.
> But on the other hand, this war demonstrates how firing large number of precise ballistic and cruise missiles can be an effective tactic for crippling the adversary in the early stages of war.



If that adversary doesn't have nukes to deter such an event...


----------



## RescueRanger

The Eagle said:


> Agreed. That reminds me of those videos shared few days earlier where volunteers were preparing for war. CNN or BBC were showing like some strong groups being trained.



Yes I remember those saw plenty on CNN and it was full of people in expensive tacticCool gear looking amazing.



KAL-EL said:


> Not sure what the West has planned, but it just may come to that.


Best way to hit back at Russia is through the Kremlin's assets in the west that carry the cash. One big giant money laundering mill if you think about it.

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## Khanate

That Guy said:


> What betrayal, no military response was promised.




At least, Ukrainians got the helmets.

Ukraine should have claimed ISIS was in Kyiv. Then all the military boots will be on ground in no time.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496795649106321411

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## RescueRanger

_Nabil_ said:


> @The Eagle
> 
> Can you make this thread to war news only?
> 
> No comments, analysis, drama, chit chat, ....


Kind of defeats the objective of a "FORUM".

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## The Eagle

_Nabil_ said:


> @The Eagle
> 
> Can you make this thread to war news only?
> 
> No comments, analysis, drama, chit chat, ....



Actually, the news only is the part of discussion. This is a Forum my dear. People will discuss a news and share their findings or analysis about the situation. However, we can all play our part to keep it civilized & on point with most credible sources to discuss. 

_*Members: We are not here to discuss members of the Forum. Keep your discussion on points being made & pay attention to the statement, analysis or opinion only. In the end, you can disagree with respect and move on.*_

Regards,

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## Englishman

RescueRanger said:


> Look like conscripts and volunteers, two are female. I do feel sorry for Ukrainians right now.


I wouldn't 

It was taken over by Nazis in 2014

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## RescueRanger

Al Jazeera: Russian helicopters seen on a rooftop of a Hospital on the outskirt of Kiev.


----------



## That Guy

ZeEa5KPul said:


> I did so here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> Look like conscripts and volunteers, two are female. I do feel sorry for Ukrainians right now. Agreed. That reminds me of those videos shared few days earlier where volunteers were preparing for war. CNN or BBC were showing like some strong groups being trained.
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk



Losses and getting smahed are two different things. I never ever said Russia would suffer heavy losses, and you know it.

You are literally playing the semantics game to prove your point.

[Edit] whatever, do what you want.


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

People might not like the cheerleading I do, but it's just the chickens coming home to roost. If it was alright for Americans to cheer the Iraq invasion of 2003, then surely it's alright for me to cheer the Ukraine invasion of 2022.

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## The Eagle

RescueRanger said:


> Yes I remember those saw plenty on CNN and it was full of people in expensive tacticCool gear looking amazing.



Can you share the link of videos about such training, where I remember that it was a Nazi type flag in background? Can anyone else please? I am searching as well.

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## _Nabil_

RescueRanger said:


> Kind of defeats the objective of a "FORUM".





The Eagle said:


> Actually, the news only is the part of discussion. This is a Forum my dear. People will discuss a news and share their findings or analysis about the situation. However, we can all play our part to keep it civilized & on point with most credible sources to discuss.
> 
> _*Members: We are not here to discuss members of the Forum. Keep your discussion on points being made & pay attention to the statement, analysis or opinion only. In the end, you can disagree with respect and move on.*_
> 
> Regards,


Ikr it's a forum, but the situation is foggy, war news now more important, to understand where things are going, than chit chat.

Anyway

Russian forces enter Kharkiv without a fight

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## The Eagle

ZeEa5KPul said:


> People might not like the cheerleading I do, but it's just the chickens coming home to roost. If it was alright for Americans to cheer the Iraq invasion of 2003, then surely it's alright for me to cheer the Ukraine invasion of 2022.



I feel sorry for Ukraine actually. Saddam was fooled with fake promises but he believed and invaded Kuwait. At-least he had some gains in start and was the attacking party. Ukraine is just got in the middle and paying for someone else's games. I fear that particular place may not be turned into some forever buffer-zone.

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## ZeEa5KPul

That Guy said:


> Losses and getting smahed are two different things. I never ever said Russia would suffer heavy losses, and you know it.
> 
> You are literally playing the semantics game to prove your point.


You used an ambiguous phrase and I interpreted it validly. "Good luck with X" is a sarcastic quip that means X is extremely difficult if not impossible. What's beyond doubt is that you meant Russia would have a very difficult time replacing its combat losses, as well as it being entrapped by China.

Once again, if you meant something different, I invite you to state it clearly.


----------



## RescueRanger

The Eagle said:


> Can you share the link of videos about such training, where I remember that it was a Nazi type flag in background? Can anyone else please? I am searching as well.



This is the video you are referring to:











Patriot of Ukraine = Neo Nazi movement flag can be seen in the video @ 0:10 seconds.

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## That Guy

ZeEa5KPul said:


> You used an ambiguous phrase and I interpreted it validly. "Good luck with X" is a sarcastic quip that means X is extremely difficult if not impossible. What's beyond doubt is that you meant Russia would have a very difficult time replacing its combat losses, as well as it being entrapped by China.
> 
> Once again, if you meant something different, I invite you to state it clearly.


The China one is pretty much what I said, what I said was that Russia has suffered a bunch of hardware losses.

That is a fact, and one you cannot deny.


----------



## Vapnope

Arulmozhi Varman said:


> Cos I did not find Greek members here. He was , as many here, rightly concerned about the Ukraine situation. This is pure arrogance from the part of Russia, whatever their problems with Ukraine.
> But as a member of NATO, turkey (and other members) can do something about it. If a greek or US guy had posted an post expressing concern I would have asked the same question.


Turkey just issued a statement









Turkey to continue support Ukraine's territorial integrity, unity


Russia’s attack on Ukraine, which broke the Minsk agreement and violated international law, is unacceptable, it was underlined on Thursday after...




www.dailysabah.com





I don't think Turkey can unilaterally ask NATO to take action.


----------



## RescueRanger

_Nabil_ said:


> Ikr it's a forum, but the situation is foggy, war news now more important, to understand where things are going, than chit chat.



Dictionary definition of a Forum:
*a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
"we hope these pages act as a forum for debate"

Anyway:*

Russia has surrounded Ukraine from three sides​From CNN's Henrik Pettersson

As locations across Ukraine come under Russian military assault, here's a look at the locations of Russian troops:

*Messages on Social Media requesting people to donate to blood banks, all non-essential travel suspended, requests made by the government for people to "stay at home". - Source: Al Jazeera*

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## The Eagle

RescueRanger said:


> This is the video you are referring to:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Patriot of Ukraine = Neo Nazi movement flag can be seen in the video @ 0:10 seconds.



And there was another about training in night time and volunteers stood behind reporter with flags. one of them was exactly like this one...

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## HAIDER

One helicopter and 5 TB2 shutdowns by Russia .. RT ... A video surfaced of Ukrainian soldiers surrendering ...

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## RescueRanger




----------



## Leviza

Ukrainian MP Alexey Goncharenko on Fox News: Ukraine is the only nation in the human history which gave up the nuclear arsenal, the third biggest in the world in 1994, with guarantees of the US, UK and Russian Federation. Where are these guarantees? Now we are bombed and killed

Note to Pakistan 
Never give up nukes due to anyones guarantees ever , when the time comes you are on your own to defend

Reactions: Like Like:
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## khail007

That Guy said:


> A high economic price, no one ever said NATO would militarily confront Russia in order to save Ukraine, which is why Ukraine was so desperate to gain membership, because it knew an invasion was coming.
> 
> Also, of the three nations mentioned, one is the Russian Federation, so your example doesn't really make sense here.
> 
> If there is no Ukraine anymore, that just makes Russia's neighbours all the more likely to join NATO, Finland and other European nations are already now in talks about joining, and they point out Russian actions in Ukraine as the cause.
> 
> Also, I disagree that these are "merely" sanctions. Russia's economy is on the verge of collapse right now. The EU has just banned market access to Russia, and stopped all trade with Russia. Russia can use it's oil leverage, but that will just make sure the EU will expedite it's move away from Russian oil and gas.
> 
> Before you mention Russian gas, think about it this way, why doesn't Pakistan trade with India, despite it being cheap and economically beneficial? Because it's a matter of sovereignty and Pakistan fully expects India to use it's trade leverage against Pakistani interests. The Europeans won't compromise their sovereignty just to pay cheap gas prices.
> 
> Russians made a massive blunder by thinking their gas leverage would save them from an economic depression. The Russians have pretty much guaranteed that the Europeans never trust them, and they will guaranteed to lead Europe away from Russia.



Sir, try to convey your message in a brief and concise way. In the digital age, such long paragraphs do not worth the time.

On topic:
You do not feel that USA/NATO will not convey the pleasure/displeasure indirect tone, such things are conveyed in a veiled/vagued manner which is called diplomacy, so later if it goes wrong one could protect him under the shield of 'misunderstanding/out of context'.
The same USA did to Saddam before the first Gulf War - this is the way how things work in international diplomacy.


----------



## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496829633190371329


----------



## Man of steel23

_Nabil_ said:


> Ikr it's a forum, but the situation is foggy, war news now more important, to understand where things are going, than chit chat.
> 
> Anyway
> 
> Russian forces enter Kharkiv without a fight
> View attachment 818215



Is this confirmed


----------



## nang2

Judging by the market reaction, I think this war is wanted by most major powers, USA, UK, China and certainly Russia, probably except Germany. Considering the rampant inflation driven by pretty much all central banks during the pandemic, a major war will instill sufficient fear and patriotism in people's hearts so that they tolerate more the hardship inflicted by inflation.

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## HAIDER

The Eagle said:


> I feel sorry for Ukraine actually. Saddam was fooled with fake promises but he believed and invaded Kuwait. At-least he had some gains in start and was the attacking party. Ukraine is just got in the middle and paying for someone else's games. I fear that particular place may not be turned into some forever buffer-zone.


Don't you forget in 71, we were fooled by the arrival of the 7th fleet being a strategic partner of West/US?

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## That Guy

khail007 said:


> Sir, try to convey your message in a brief and concise way. In the digital age, such long paragraphs do not worth the time.
> 
> On topic:
> You do not feel that USA/NATO will not convey the pleasure/displeasure indirect tone, such things are conveyed in a veiled/vagued manner which is called diplomacy, so later if it goes wrong one could protect him under the shield of 'misunderstanding/out of context'.
> The same USA did to Saddam before the first Gulf War - this is the way how things work in international diplomacy.


This isn't twitter, this is an internet forum.

Sanctions are being imposed as we speak, so there is nothing vague about it here.



HAIDER said:


> Don't you forget in 71, we were fooled by the arrival of the 7th fleet being a strategic partner of West/US?


Let's not forget that the Russians also sent a fleet to stop them. How convenient we forget certain facts in our anger towards someone.



nang2 said:


> Judging by the market reaction, I think this war is wanted by most major powers, USA, UK, China and certainly Russia, probably except Germany. Considering the rampant inflation driven by pretty much all central banks during the pandemic, a major war will instill sufficient fear and patriotism in people's hearts so that they tolerate more the hardship inflicted by inflation.


This literally makes no sense.

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## HAIDER

That Guy said:


> This isn't twitter, this is an internet forum.
> 
> Sanctions are being imposed as we speak, so there is nothing vague about it here.
> 
> 
> Let's not forget that the Russians also sent a fleet to stop them. How convenient we forget certain facts in our anger towards someone.
> 
> 
> This literally makes no sense.


They were open partners to India. We knew it.


----------



## Dai Toruko

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496858392207708163
Russian planes are bombing civilians

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## Solidify

Russia Ukraine Updates


----------



## Vapnope

That Guy said:


> Let's not forget that the Russians also sent a fleet to stop them. How convenient we forget certain facts in our anger towards someone.


The much touted task force never received a clear message to go to bay of Bengal. The time by it actually arrived in the area of operation, Pakistan already has surrendered. 

There are some facts in the American secret papers of 1969 to 1972 which give details otherwise hidden from common public.


----------



## MH.Yang

nang2 said:


> Judging by the market reaction, I think this war is wanted by most major powers, USA, UK, China and certainly Russia, probably except Germany. Considering the rampant inflation driven by pretty much all central banks during the pandemic, a major war will instill sufficient fear and patriotism in people's hearts so that they tolerate more the hardship inflicted by inflation.



China does not want war in Ukraine. Our B&R enters Europe through Russia and Ukraine. We need stability and peace in both countries.

China's CPI is only 0.8%. We have no inflation. Why should we experience pain?

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496849991297556484

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## nang2

MH.Yang said:


> China does not want war in Ukraine. Our B&R enters Europe through Russia and Ukraine. We need stability and peace in both countries.
> 
> China's CPI is only 0.8%. We have no inflation. Why should we experience pain?


The pain of paying off real estate mortgage. It has been already there for quite some time.

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## Man of steel23

nang2 said:


> Judging by the market reaction, I think this war is wanted by most major powers, USA, UK, China and certainly Russia, probably except Germany. Considering the rampant inflation driven by pretty much all central banks during the pandemic, a major war will instill sufficient fear and patriotism in people's hearts so that they tolerate more the hardship inflicted by inflation.



Not really bro.... That happens only when the economy collapses entirely


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496854488933715972

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## ghazi52

BBC










AFP

It's an incredibly confused and fast-moving situation, but here's what we can tell you so far about what is happening on the ground.

Russian forces have invaded Ukraine from multiple directions, including from the separatist regions in the Donbas to the east, Belarus to the north and from occupied Crimea to the south.

Much of the fighting appears to be centred around the east.

Residents of Kharkiv, Ukraine's second largest city, say windows in apartment blocks were shaking from constant blasts as the Ukrainian military and Russian forces exchanged shellfire.

But clashes have have also been taking place around the capital Kyiv in the north and the Black Sea port cities of Odesa and Mariupol in the south.

Air strikes from Russia have been carried out on Ukrainian military bases and airports, with fierce fighting reported around a key airport near Kyiv.

The Ukrainian military claims to have shot down at least six Russian aircraft, while Russia claims to have destroyed more than 70 military targets in Ukraine.

Many Ukrainians are seeking shelter or trying to leave larger cities around the country, including thousands seen fleeing Kyiv.


----------



## nang2

Man of steel23 said:


> Not really bro.... That happens only when the economy collapses entirely


Nope. Economy isn't that fragile. But war is a very effective tool to keep social stability by making people more docile. Check The Report from Iron Mountain.


----------



## Dai Toruko

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496864788365860869

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## khail007

That Guy said:


> This isn't twitter, this is an internet forum.
> 
> Sanctions are being imposed as we speak, so there is nothing vague about it here.



It reflects, that wherever you want to avoid you goes in 'twitter' mode. So this is called diplomacy.

Did you read my post? I noticed you didn't.
USA/West, where they feel themselves on weak moral grounds, they use to play a game called 'SANCTIONS' and this is not a new thing. What are they able to change against Iran or Korea?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496862482492801030

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## Man of steel23

nang2 said:


> Nope. Economy isn't that fragile. But war is a very effective tool to keep social stability by making people more docile. Check The Report from Iron Mountain.



Not at inflation treeshold but only when everything collapses


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## The Eagle

Russian Defence Ministry and RT.com websites are still down

@RescueRanger

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## MH.Yang

nang2 said:


> The pain of paying off real estate mortgage. It has been already there for quite some time.



Seriously, brother. A month ago, all Chinese economists did not expect European funds to come to China, not USA. They predicted that USA would use the war to raise interest rates to allow European funds to flow to USA.
And the damage of this war to B&R is obvious.
So at first, we all thought that this war would only bring trouble to China's economy.


As for China's control of Russia through this war, this is nonsense, No country can control such a powerful and great country. 
The fact is that China will be forced to transfuse blood to Russia. Just now, China's Ministry of Agriculture announced that it would allow wheat from all over Russia to be imported into China. 
Shit, Russian wheat has dwarf smut.

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## ghazi52

Soon after President Putin declared the beginning of the invasion of Ukraine, videos and images claiming to be from the conflict began trending on major social networks.

While there is lots of genuine footage, some viral clips racking up hundreds of thousands of views show events from past conflicts or old military exercises. Many of these seem to coming from users posting content without checking.

The BBC has seen videos of the 2014 Russia-Ukraine war, the 2011 Libyan war and the 2020 Beirut explosions going viral.

In one example, a former Ukrainian ambassador to the US tweeted a video which he claimed was taken in Mariupol, but a version of the same clip was uploaded to TikTok weeks ago and apparently showing a lightning hitting a power station.

Another viral video claiming to show Russian military paratroopers landing in Ukraine first appeared online in 2016.

But Twitter seems to be taking a proactive role in confronting misleading content, as it seemed to have removed several videos proven to be old or false by fact-checkers and researchers.

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## Man of steel23

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496862482492801030



His maps are difficult to understand because his not sharing it in better mapping platform

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## nang2

Man of steel23 said:


> Not at inflation treeshold but only when everything collapses


Nobody worries about the time when everything collapses.


----------



## Abid123

Why is Ukraine not fighting back? What happened to the S-300s?

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## Man of steel23

nang2 said:


> Nobody worries about the time when everything collapses.


Exactly. That is when wars happen


----------



## White privilege

Oh boys, it seems like _Talibs vs ANA _all over again like last year.


----------



## HAIDER

Military helicopters apparently Russian, fly over the outskirts of Kyiv, Ukraine Photograph: AP

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## ghazi52

*Military action*

Russian forces have invaded Ukraine, with missile strikes and explosions reported near major cities and on its military infrastructure.

The Ukrainian military says it has killed about 50 Russian "occupiers" and shot down at least six Russian aircraft, although this has not been independently verified.

On its side, Russia claims it has met little resistance and claims that Ukrainian armed forces are fleeing en masse, abandoning their weapons and positions.


BBC

*Civilian impact*

Emergency sirens have been sounding in Kyiv since the first explosions in the early hours. Huge traffic jams have built up as residents try to flee the city after Ukraine closed its airspace to civilian flights.

Elsewhere, residents are seeking shelter in stations - and queues have formed for buses, cashpoints and petrol.

Several European countries bordering Ukraine, including Poland, Slovakia and Hungary, say they are preparing for an influx of refugees.

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## nang2

MH.Yang said:


> Seriously, brother. A month ago, all Chinese economists did not expect European funds to come to China, not USA. They predicted that USA would use the war to raise interest rates to allow European funds to flow to USA.
> And the damage of this war to B&R is obvious.
> So at first, we all thought that this war would only bring trouble to China's economy.


That part is obvious since neither Germany nor France is very reluctant to provoke Russia into a war.


----------



## Dai Toruko

Abid123 said:


> Why is Ukraine not fighting back? What happened to the S-300s?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496869722339811330


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496867272740114434


----------



## Khanate

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496846720419905538


----------



## ghazi52

Pictures

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## nang2

Man of steel23 said:


> Exactly. That is when wars happen


No. People initiate wars NOT to make everything collapse. That would be suicidal. Most warmongers are very smart and keen for self-preservation. Certainly not suicidal. War is a tool to get something, not to ruin everything.

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## The Eagle

ghazi52 said:


> Another viral video claiming to show Russian military paratroopers landing in Ukraine first appeared online in 2016.



@The SC


----------



## R Wing

That Guy said:


> If only it was that easy, but it's not. I've already explained my stances, no need for me to repeat myself.
> 
> By the way, lost soldiers and hardware are hard to replace, both of which Russia has lost.



You think you're being nuanced, but I don't think you are. I think we can both agree that Russia will lose hardware and men. We can also agree that Russia included prospective losses in its wargaming and, more importantly, long-term grand strategy before engaging in this conflict and found the payoffs/costs justifiable given their regional security goals. 

Crucially, there must be a quantitative threshold after which such losses become significant enough for your theory to kick in. Time will tell whether Russia's losses cross that threshold or not. Perhaps we can devote our time (on this thread, which is more about updates) to more constructive, current discussions. Thanks.



nang2 said:


> No. People initiate wars NOT to make everything collapse. That would be suicidal. Most warmongers are very smart and keen for self-preservation. Certainly not suicidal. War is a tool to get something, not to ruin everything.



Exactly. Most people have never studied realism or grand strategy formally, so they have no clue what they are talking about.

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## WinterFangs

Civilian casualties are sad, just seen a video a Russian missile killing a small Ukrainian girl riding her bike, I’m not going to share the video, gut wrenching video.

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## ghazi52



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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496871377332277250

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## RescueRanger

ghazi52 said:


> Pictures
> 
> View attachment 818231


----------



## nang2

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496867272740114434


In another word, he is liberating Russians in Ukraine. That probably means the end of the war would be along Dnieper river.


----------



## Vapnope

F-22Raptor said:


> The actual pic


No it is not.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496870784844779520


----------



## khansaheeb

UK will not look away from Russia invasion in Ukraine - PM


Boris Johnson says President Putin has launched a "vast invasion" of Ukraine without provocation.



www.bbc.com




UK will not look away from Russia invasion in Ukraine - PM​*By Mary O'Connor*
BBC News

Published1 minute ago
commentsComments
Share
Related Topics

Ukraine crisis

Media caption,
Watch Boris Johnson call the Ukraine invasion "wanton and reckless aggression" by Russia.
*The UK "cannot and will not just look away" at Russia's "hideous and barbaric" attack on Ukraine, Boris Johnson has said.*
The PM said President Vladimir Putin had launched a "vast invasion by land, by sea and by air" without provocation.
He said the UK and allies will launch a "massive package" of sanctions to "hobble" Russia's economy.
The prime minister will outline the further economic sanctions against Russia in the Commons at 17:00 GMT.

LIVE: Russia launches Ukraine invasion
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In a pre-recorded TV statement, Mr Johnson stressed that Ukraine was "not some faraway country of which we know little".
He added: "We have Ukrainian friends in this country, neighbours, co-workers. Ukraine is a country that for decades has enjoyed freedom and democracy and the right to choose its own destiny."

Mr Johnson said the UK and its allies would agree a "massive package of economic sanctions" in a bid to "hobble" the Russian economy, warning that the West would need to cease its dependence on Russian oil and gas.
"Our mission is clear: diplomatically, politically, economically and eventually militarily, this hideous and barbaric venture of Vladimir Putin must end in failure," Mr Johnson said.




IMAGE SOURCE,PA MEDIA
Image caption,
There are around 35,000 Ukrainian-born people living in the UK, according to the most-recent ONS data
Mr Johnson's comments come after Russian forces launched an assault on Ukraine, crossing its borders and bombing military targets near big cities.
Ukraine announced that martial law - which means the military takes control temporarily - has been imposed across the whole of the country.
Traffic jams have built up as people attempt to flee the capital Kyiv.
Russian military vehicles are reported to have breached Ukraine's border in a number of places, in the north, south and east, including from Belarus.

At least seven people are known to have been killed by Russian shelling, including civilians. A Ukrainian presidential adviser said that more than 40 soldiers had died and dozens more were wounded, but this has not been independently confirmed.

Media caption,
WATCH: Gunfire and explosions heard in Ukrainian cities
Addressing the Ukrainian people directly, Mr Johnson said: "In this moment of agony, we're with you, we're praying for you and your families and we are on your side."
The prime minister also sought to reassure the British public, pledging to do "everything to keep our country safe" and work with allies "for however long it takes" to restore Ukraine's sovereignty and independence.
"Because this act of wanton and reckless aggression is an attack not just on Ukraine, it's an attack on democracy and freedom in eastern Europe and around the world."
Ukrainian protesters gathered outside Downing Street on Thursday afternoon to call for more action from the UK and the international community.
Natalia Ravlyuk, a volunteer who helped organise the protest, said: "We feel very angry, we feel very anxious and we feel betrayed by democratic states because we have been talking about this war for eight years."




IMAGE SOURCE,EPA
Image caption,
Ukrainian protesters gathered outside Downing Street on Thursday afternoon
Mr Johnson is now speaking to leaders of the G7 group of wealthy nations about the situation. Earlier, he said on Twitter that the invasion was a "catastrophe for our continent".
Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer said the UK should brace itself for the "economic pain" the country will experience by imposing sanctions against Russia.
In a televised address, Sir Keir said: "We will see economic pain as we free Europe from dependence on Russian gas and clean our institutions from money stolen from the Russian people.
"But the British public have always been willing to make sacrifices to defend democracy on our continent and we will again."




Sanctions and assistance but no boots on the ground​




Senior ministers in London are spending the next few hours speaking to their counterparts in the capitals of wealthy G7 nations.
The government intends to announce what is says is a severe sanctions package later this afternoon - when the prime minister will address Parliament. The government wants it to be done in line with allies.
After criticism the initial sanctions package did not go far enough, ministers made clear they had more waiting to be used at the right time.
It is likely that will involve travel bans and asset freezes on more individuals and sanctions on more banks. It could also extend to key Russian industries like technology, energy and chemicals.
Ministers have also been discussing ways to restrict Russian access to UK financial systems. Labour wants Russia banned from the Swift system for international payments.
The UK is also planning to provide military assistance to Ukraine - but that will not involve boots on the ground.




Foreign Secretary Liz Truss summoned Russia's ambassador to the UK, Andrei Kelin, for the second time this week to ask him to explain the "illegal, unprovoked invasion of Ukraine".
A source told BBC political correspondent Nick Eardley the meeting was "tempestuous" and ended early after Ms Truss said the ambassador should be "ashamed" of Russia's behaviour in Ukraine, adding that the Kremlin had lied repeatedly.

Media caption,
Watch: Putin government must face hardest possible sanctions, says Sir Keir Starmer
Meanwhile the head of the Western defensive alliance Nato, Jens Stoltenberg, condemned the invasion as a "blatant violation" of international law and said he is calling a virtual summit of alliance leaders on Friday to discuss the "serious threat" to security in the region.
"This is a grave moment for the security of Europe. Russia's unprovoked and unjustified attack on Ukraine is putting countless lives at risk," he said.
In a pre-dawn TV statement on Thursday, President Putin said Russia did not plan to occupy Ukraine, but demanded its soldiers lay down their weapons, before warning that Moscow's response would be "instant" if anyone tried to take on Russia.
The prospect of further UK sanctions against Russia comes a day after the prime minister announced that five Russian banks had had their assets frozen and three Russian billionaires would have travel bans imposed.
UK nationals were advised two weeks ago to leave Ukraine while commercial flights were still available. Those remaining have again been urged to leave Ukraine immediately - if they judge it is safe to do so.
Ukraine has closed its airspace to civilian flights. Wizz Air and Ryanair have suspended all flights to the country.


----------



## ghazi52

Where have Russian troops attacked and why?​Airports and military headquarters were hit first, near cities across Ukraine, including the main Boryspil international airport in Kyiv. Then tanks and troops rolled into Ukraine in the north-east, near Kharkiv, a city of 1.4 million people; in the east near Luhansk, and from neighbouring Belarus in the north. Russian troops landed in Ukraine's big port cities of Odesa and Mariupol too.

Moments before the invasion began, President Putin went on TV declaring that Russia could not feel "safe, develop and exist" because of what he called a constant threat from modern Ukraine.







President Putin has frequently accused Ukraine of being taken over by extremists, ever since its pro-Russian president, Viktor Yanukovych, was ousted in 2014 after months of protests against his rule. Russia then retaliated by seizing the southern region of Crimea and triggering a rebellion in the east by Russian-backed separatists who have fought Ukrainian forces in a war that has claimed 14,000 lives.

Late in 2021 he began deploying big numbers of Russian troops close to Ukraine's borders. Then this week he scrapped a 2015 peace deal for the east and recognised areas under rebel control as independent.

Russia has long resisted Ukraine's move towards the European Union and the West's defensive military alliance Nato. Announcing Russia's invasion, he accused Nato of threatening "our historic future as a nation".


----------



## The SC

The Eagle said:


> @The SC


OK.. they had a similar one on Youtube..That is where I've verified so I tought it was true..


----------



## HAIDER

Multiple military helicopters passing through the sky (left), the person filming says he counted "at least 30," and they are marked with a Russian flag. Later the NEXTA channel on Telegram shared a video of what it purports is one of the downed Russian military helicopters (right).

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## Dai Toruko

WinterFangs said:


> Civilian casualties are sad, just seen a video a Russian missile killing a small Ukrainian girl riding her bike, I’m not going to share the video, gut wrenching video.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496801832290725896

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## RescueRanger

HAIDER said:


> View attachment 818242
> 
> Multiple military helicopters passing through the sky (left), the person filming says he counted "at least 30," and they are marked with a Russian flag. Later the NEXTA channel on Telegram shared a video of what it purports is one of the downed Russian military helicopters (right).


This one has been confirmed by multiple sources.

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## ghazi52




----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496067799319556100
This is hilarious

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## RescueRanger

⚠️ East Ukraine: Ukrainian FM on AJN stating the Russians are trying to take over Chernobyl Nuclear Powerplant.

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## The Eagle

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496867272740114434



Denazify............. this is exactly why I was looking for some Ukrainian volunteers' training footage with swastika flags. How come someone support a country that hosts Nazi mindset? At-least, Russia was not going to tolerate such thing in the neighbour and interestingly, West/US or Israel had no issue with those groups in Ukraine. 

@RescueRanger

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## RescueRanger

RescueRanger said:


> ⚠️ East Ukraine: Ukrainian FM on AJN stating the Russians are trying to take over Chernobyl Nuclear Powerplant.


Ukraine's president says Russian forces are attempting to seize control of Chernobyl nuclear power plant​From CNN’s Anastasia Graham-Yooll in London and Gul Tuysuz in Kyiv

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky tweeted that Russian forces are attempting to seize control of the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant.
“Russian occupation forces are trying to seize the Chernobyl [Nuclear Power Plant]. Our defenders are sacrificing their lives so that the tragedy of 1986 will not be repeated,” Zelensky tweeted.

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## The Eagle

ghazi52 said:


> Where have Russian troops attacked and why?​Airports and military headquarters were hit first, near cities across Ukraine, including the main Boryspil international airport in Kyiv. Then tanks and troops rolled into Ukraine in the north-east, near Kharkiv, a city of 1.4 million people; in the east near Luhansk, and from neighbouring Belarus in the north. Russian troops landed in Ukraine's big port cities of Odesa and Mariupol too.
> 
> Moments before the invasion began, President Putin went on TV declaring that Russia could not feel "safe, develop and exist" because of what he called a constant threat from modern Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> President Putin has frequently accused Ukraine of being taken over by extremists, ever since its pro-Russian president, Viktor Yanukovych, was ousted in 2014 after months of protests against his rule. Russia then retaliated by seizing the southern region of Crimea and triggering a rebellion in the east by Russian-backed separatists who have fought Ukrainian forces in a war that has claimed 14,000 lives.
> 
> Late in 2021 he began deploying big numbers of Russian troops close to Ukraine's borders. Then this week he scrapped a 2015 peace deal for the east and recognised areas under rebel control as independent.
> 
> Russia has long resisted Ukraine's move towards the European Union and the West's defensive military alliance Nato. Announcing Russia's invasion, he accused Nato of threatening "our historic future as a nation".



Ghazi... do not share without link/credit to the source.

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## Mav3rick

That Guy said:


> Let's not forget that the Russians also sent a fleet to stop them. How convenient we forget certain facts in our anger towards someone.


Despite the Russian fleet, the Americans drew a red line against invading West Pakistan otherwise the Indian Army would have inflicted serious damage on an already devastated country (morally); and least we forget, even the UK sent an Aircraft Carrier.......otherwise what was there to stop the Indians from opening up this front and taking back Kashmir once and for all?

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## RescueRanger

The Eagle said:


> Denazify............. this is exactly why I was looking for some Ukrainian volunteers' training footage with swastika flags. How come someone support a country that hosts Nazi mindset? At-least, Russia was not going to tolerate such thing in the neighbour and interestingly, West/US or Israel had no issue with those groups in Ukraine.
> 
> @RescueRanger



Brother most Slavic nations have a history of racism and anti-Semitism. People forget about the role Ukrainians played in the Nazi death squads known as Einstazgruppen (deployment groups)









The Holocaust in Ukraine - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## damiendehorn2

Ukrainians don't seem to be putting up much of a fight. The west is not coming to their aid, if they want to be free they have to fight for it themselves.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496872541385904135

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496869477820026892


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## Man of steel23

She is back from Kabul to kharkiv

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496871851485806593


damiendehorn2 said:


> Ukrainians don't seem to be putting up much of a fight. The west is not coming to their aid, if they want to be free they have to fight for it themselves.



They will fight. This is just the beginning and they are fighting

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## Beast

Russian Ka-52 Kamov down.

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## Patriot forever

That Guy said:


> Expected.
> 
> Meanwhile Russian markets are down 50% and still falling fast.
> 
> Which was also expected.



That is a good thing for US. Relieves pressure from the feds, bond yield are dropping . No more 6 hikes as anticipated. 

The stock bubble is deflating on its own 🙂

War definitely has benefits.

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## The Eagle

damiendehorn2 said:


> *Ukrainians don't seem to be putting up much of a figh*t. The west is not coming to their aid, if they want to be free they have to fight for it themselves.



Too earlier to say that.

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## RescueRanger

Beast said:


> Russian Ka-52 Kamov down.



Notice the shrapnel damage on the fuselage and engine cowling.

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## That Guy

khail007 said:


> It reflects, that wherever you want to avoid you goes in 'twitter' mode. So this is called diplomacy.
> 
> Did you read my post? I noticed you didn't.
> USA/West, where they feel themselves on weak moral grounds, they use to play a game called 'SANCTIONS' and this is not a new thing. What are they able to change against Iran or Korea?


I did read your comment. I also didn't avoid anything. You said to keep my comments short, I said this isn't twitter. If you want to have short verbal spars, go to twitter.

Also, sanctions are about punishing, as much as it is about getting nations to change their behavior. Without nukes, NK would be irrelevant. Without the possibility of Iranians making nukes, and their support of proxies, the Iran would be irrelevant.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496874865952972806

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## RescueRanger

President Zelenskyy recorded video tape playing on AJN. Pleads Ukranians to join up as volunteers, and donate blood. Calls on Western allies to help and states " if you don't help Ukraine today, war will be knocking on your door, signs off with "GLORY TO UKRAINE".



RescueRanger said:


> President Zelenskyy recorded video tape playing on AJN. Pleads Ukranians to join up as volunteers, and donate blood. Calls on Western allies to help and states " if you don't help Ukraine today, war will be knocking on your door, signs off with "GLORY TO UKRAINE".


President Zelenskyy "WE HAVE PRISIONERS OF WAR"

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## Beast

Russia Ukraine war do not put China in awkward position. The worst one to suffer is India.

China can continue support Russia economy without being sanction as China economy is too powerful. 

While India will be forced by western partners to condemn Russia and forced to no military deal and economy deal with Russia. India is in massive dilemma

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## That Guy

R Wing said:


> You think you're being nuanced, but I don't think you are. I think we can both agree that Russia will lose hardware and men. We can also agree that Russia included prospective losses in its wargaming and, more importantly, long-term grand strategy before engaging in this conflict and found the payoffs/costs justifiable given their regional security goals.
> 
> Crucially, there must be a quantitative threshold after which such losses become significant enough for your theory to kick in. Time will tell whether Russia's losses cross that threshold or not. Perhaps we can devote our time (on this thread, which is more about updates) to more constructive, current discussions. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. Most people have never studied realism or grand strategy formally, so they have no clue what they are talking about.


I'm not trying to be nuanced or subtle, my comments are pretty straightforward.


----------



## RescueRanger

On the ground: Woman sheltering in subway station expresses uncertainty and disbelief​From CNN's Adrienne Vogt


----------



## Windjammer

Ukrainian Radars put out of action.

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## RescueRanger

UN Security Council resolution being discussed privately, according to diplomats - From CNN's Richard Roth​


Windjammer said:


> Ukrainian Radars put out of action.
> View attachment 818246
> View attachment 818247


This was early in the morning, the first bombing run on the Airport.

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## Beast

Windjammer said:


> Ukrainian Radars put out of action.
> View attachment 818246
> View attachment 818247


Russian anti radiation missile and system are effective!


----------



## Wood

Beast said:


> Russia Ukraine war do not put China in awkward position. The worst one to suffer is India.
> 
> China can continue support Russia economy without being sanction as China economy is too powerful.
> 
> While India will be forced by western partners to condemn Russia and forced to no military deal and economy deal with Russia. India is in massive dilemma


Yes, indeed! This is a dilemma for India. Luckily, India has decades of experience in playing the 'cat on wall' game. It is called as non-alignment by Indian foreign ministry. Conveniently, Indian stature in global stage is not significant enough for anyone to care much

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## Beast

Dogfight of Su-35 (Russia) vs MIg-29 (UKraine)

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496877661594931203


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## Beast

Wood said:


> Yes, indeed! This is a dilemma for India. Luckily, India has decades of experience in playing the 'cat on wall' game. It is called as non-alignment by Indian foreign ministry. Conveniently, Indian stature in global stage is not significant enough for anyone to care much


If India do not condemn Russia, US and EU will sanction India. If India continue to work with Russia in military deal, Western power will sanction India too. India economy is too weak to withstand Western onslaught.

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## Vapnope

Mav3rick said:


> Despite the Russian fleet, the Americans drew a red line against invading West Pakistan otherwise the Indian Army would have inflicted serious damage on an already devastated country (morally); and least we forget, even the UK sent an Aircraft Carrier.......otherwise what was there to stop the Indians from opening up this front and taking back Kashmir once and for all?


Are you being sarcastic?

Because Indian did push in West Pakistan and even gained some territory. Americans did everything to blunt Pakistan's capability to defend by stopping the military hardware export to Pakistan.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496878014902284289

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## Wood

Beast said:


> If India do not condemn Russia, US and EU will sanction India. If India continue to work with Russia in military deal, Western power will sanction India too. India economy is too weak to withstand Western onslaught.


India will simply shut itself into the non-alignment shell. This has always worked in the past. But I can understand your eagerness to see Indian foreign policy fail. Future is yet to be written and we can see how things play out


----------



## RescueRanger

Oblast of southern #Ukraine:

Woman challenging a Russian soldier asking him "why have you come to our country?"


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496866773764825093

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## The Eagle

Wood said:


> Yes, indeed! This is a dilemma for India. Luckily, India has decades of experience in playing the 'cat on wall' game. It is called as non-alignment by Indian foreign ministry. Conveniently, Indian stature in global stage is not significant enough for anyone to care much



Honestly, as long as China is evil to US/West; India will be allowed the so-called non-alignment game. The day India is no more worth a player against China; you will see what happens. That is not pure luck but the role available to play as of yet.

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## Man of steel23

Beast said:


> Russia Ukraine war do not put China in awkward position. The worst one to suffer is India.
> 
> China can continue support Russia economy without being sanction as China economy is too powerful.
> 
> While India will be forced by western partners to condemn Russia and forced to no military deal and economy deal with Russia. India is in massive dilemma



Forget India its next Ukraine but China gained alot from this war.... Because the Americans would have fortified Guam, Japan, SK, Okinawa and taiwan they have 100k forces sitting against china on it's eastern flank... The Americans would have fortified even more and try to intimidate china if Russia had stood down in Ukraine but all that got shattered

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## Beast

Wood said:


> India will simply shut itself into the non-alignment shell. This has always worked in the past. But I can understand your eagerness to see Indian foreign policy fail. Future is yet to be written and we can see how things play out


Your wishful thinking. Western are in full forced to sanction Russia. Only China is out of their scope as our economy is too powerful. Your economy is not even Germany size. Western can afford to crush India if India continue to work with Russia.


----------



## Pappa Alpha

Beast said:


> Russian Ka-52 Kamov down.


What a beast of a helicopter but defeated by a MANPAD.

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## maithil

Russians should finish their job quickly . Otherwise those Javelins , Stingers and NLAWs can be nasty for hit and run tactics. Already Russian losses have started coming. Once this shock and awe phase is over, these losses will increase.

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## Windjammer

Beast said:


> Russian anti radiation missile and system are effective!


Sitting on top of a mound on open ground without any tree cover or any other comuflage, they stick out like a Buffalo in a Cotton field.

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## RescueRanger

Protests against the war in Russia:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496870591483330560

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## The Eagle

Beast said:


> Dogfight of Su-35 (Russia) vs MIg-29 (UKraine)



Seems like MiG went ahead of Flanker in excitement to become a target; if they both are not friendly A/Cs.

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## RescueRanger

Reports that Russia has deployed Chechen troops in Ukraine:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496866162147217408

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## Beast

Windjammer said:


> Sitting on top of a mound on open ground without any tree cover or any other comuflage, they stick out like a Buffalo in a Cotton field.


The Ukraine EW counter measure is non existent. That is why the Radar got locked and slam by missiles.

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## HAIDER

RescueRanger said:


> Oblast of southern #Ukraine:
> 
> Woman challenging a Russian soldier asking him "why have you come to our country?"
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496866773764825093


lol... like Russian care .... Ukranian disappointed me ... instead of defending their motherland, they all ran away .... finding a reason to get refugee status in the EU due to war ...

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## 925boy

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496877661594931203


the last 2 points contain propaganda or they dont have enough info to state those claims accurately.


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## MH.Yang

Beast said:


> Russia Ukraine war do not put China in awkward position. The worst one to suffer is India.
> 
> China can continue support Russia economy without being sanction as China economy is too powerful.
> 
> While India will be forced by western partners to condemn Russia and forced to no military deal and economy deal with Russia. India is in massive dilemma



Now Russia and China have really friendly relations, but this does not mean that Russia fully trusts China.

The stronger China is, the more Russia needs India. On the issue of India, Russia and USA share the same position, abd Russia only will not take the initiative to ask India to oppose China. 

Therefore, the relationship between Russia and India will not be affected.

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## ghazi52

Here are the impacted areas in Ukraine as Russian invasion continues​From CNN's Henrik Pettersson

Russia has surrounded Ukraine from three sides, and Ukrainian locations are receiving missiles fired from land and sea, according to a senior US defense official.

These are the areas impacted:









Ukraine locations where attacks and explosions have been reported CNN's Henrik Pettersson

​


----------



## RescueRanger

HAIDER said:


> lol... like Russian care .... Ukranian disappointed me ... instead of defending their motherland, they all ran away .... finding a reason to get refugee status in the EU due to war ...



The Elite Ukrainian's left weeks ago.


----------



## ghazi52

More US military assets will arrive in eastern European countries today, senior US defense official says​From CNN's Ellie Kaufman and Barbara Starr

More US military assets will arrive in Eastern European countries later today, a senior defense official told reporters on Thursday.

Six F-35s will arrive in Estonia, Lithuania and Romania today — two to each country — the official said. 

The group of attack helicopters “are on their way,” the official said, but noted there’s been “some weather issues” to get them to their locations. “We still expect those Apaches to get on site later today,” the official said.

On Tuesday, President Biden announced more US military assets would be deployed to NATO allies in Eastern Europe. 

That announcement included the movement of up to eight F-35 strike fighters from Germany to other Eastern European nations along NATO’s eastern flank, 20 AH-64 helicopters from Germany to the Baltic region and 12 AH-64 helicopters moved from Greece to Poland, a senior defense official said Tuesday.

“US troops remain outside of Ukraine,” the official added.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496879399932768261


----------



## RescueRanger

Unconfirmed reports that there are anti-war protests in Moscow:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496858860396720128

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## MultaniGuy

Yes my 77 year old father told me the news.

Russia annexed two regions from Ukraine.

We Pakistanis should stay out of it. None of our business whatsoever.


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## Man of steel23

Wood said:


> India will simply shut itself into the non-alignment shell. This has always worked in the past. But I can understand your eagerness to see Indian foreign policy fail. Future is yet to be written and we can see how things play out



It is to late for all that India has played it is hand. It chose to be a puppet in the region and long term security threat to China... Including Pakistan... These two alone are a counter to Nato in size hence there is nothing to change because India is already bumping heads with two major powers.. You can't unplay these two rounds of cards

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## EAGLE777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496803514898595847

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## ZeEa5KPul

RescueRanger said:


> Unconfirmed reports that there are anti-war protests in Moscow:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496858860396720128


Looks like some NED drones are going to get thrown in the slammer.

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## KAL-EL

RescueRanger said:


> Protests against the war in Russia:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496870591483330560



Very brave people considering they are risking a lot protesting out in the open like that

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## ghazi52

Russia's invasion of Ukraine "cannot go unpunished," Spain PM says​From CNN’s Al Goodman in Madrid 

Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez on Thursday said Russia’s invasion of Ukraine will have “far-reaching consequences and cannot go unpunished.” 

In a nationally-televised address in Madrid, he called on Russian President Vladimir Putin “to put an immediate end to the hostilities and revoke” Russia's recognition of territories in Ukraine. 

Sánchez said the “European Union and the rest of the allies of the union had already approved a first package of measures” against Russia and that the EU’s Council is to meet later Thursday “to define its answer to this flagrant violation of international law.” 

He called for a coordinated and unified European response and said sanctions against Russia would be the most effective approach.


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## maithil

RescueRanger said:


> Protests against the war in Russia:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496870591483330560


How long before Putin realizes that by attacking whole Ukraine, he might have overplayed his hands?

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496880692134883329

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## Beast

MH.Yang said:


> Now Russia and China have really friendly relations, but this does not mean that Russia fully trusts China.
> 
> The stronger China is, the more Russia needs India. On the issue of India, Russia and USA share the same position, abd Russia only will not take the initiative to ask India to oppose China.
> 
> Therefore, the relationship between Russia and India will not be affected.


It's not about India and Russia not affected but simply western want Russia dead. India continue dealing with Russia in military or economy will be giving Russia a lifeline. This is not western want. They will sanction any countries who work with Russia except China. 

India has no choice but to obey western rules and forgo Russia ties. India is too weak to resist western power.

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## Raja Porus

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496796484745969666Someone wqs questioning the accuracy of Russian weapons.

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## The SC

RescueRanger said:


> President Zelenskyy recorded video tape playing on AJN. Pleads Ukranians to join up as volunteers, and donate blood. Calls on Western allies to help and states " if you don't help Ukraine today, war will be knocking on your door, signs off with "GLORY TO UKRAINE".
> 
> 
> President Zelenskyy "WE HAVE PRISIONERS OF WAR"




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496879176950894594

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## Wood

The Eagle said:


> Honestly, as long as China is evil to US/West; India will be allowed the so-called non-alignment game. The day India is no more worth a player against China; you will see what happens. That is not pure luck but the role available to play as of yet.


Yes. Thankfully, this is not set to happen anytime in the future.


----------



## EAGLE777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496806416207785987

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## Windjammer

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496866235837218820

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## Wood

Beast said:


> Your wishful thinking. Western are in full forced to sanction Russia. Only China is out of their scope as our economy is too powerful. Your economy is not even Germany size. Western can afford to crush India if India continue to work with Russia.


Your wishful thinking vs my wishful thinking


----------



## RescueRanger

maithil said:


> How long before Putin realizes that by attacking whole Ukraine, he might have overplayed his hands?


Well his gambit is get this all over and done with before popular opinion changes at home.


----------



## Shotgunner51

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496880446210289666

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## The SC

RescueRanger said:


> Protests against the war in Russia:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496870591483330560




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496878835597414409


----------



## khail007

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496871377332277250



Not a good idea by him. Retaliation from Russain will increase the civilian casualties many folds.


----------



## Oldman1

Abid123 said:


> Why is Ukraine not fighting back? What happened to the S-300s?


They are fighting back. This conflict just barely started. Russia is trying to go fast. Shock and awe. 


























__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496876192238129154

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## HAIDER

RescueRanger said:


> The Elite Ukrainian's left weeks ago.


Just watch the interview of Rtrd Maj Gen Athar Abbas ex-Ambassador in Ukraine and also deal in defence procurement contracts ...his opinion about Ukrainian is quite interesting... he said, they are very sophisticated people, doesn't believe in war, always under occupation. They don't have a good record to resist foreign invasion...


----------



## Beast

Wood said:


> Your wishful thinking vs my wishful thinking


China economy USD 18 trillion vs India economy USD 2.9 trillion.

Who is the small fry? USA try to play trade war with China and got burn. So China is sanction proof. Good luck to India, you are in no position to compare to China. 

Give up ties with Russia or face western sanctions.

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## ghazi52

Ukraine doesn't have enough equipment to repel Russian attack, Ukrainian diplomat says​From CNN's Amy Cassidy






Ukrainian Ambassador to the UK Vadym Prystaiko speaks to the media at the Ukrainian Embassy in London on February 24. (Victoria Jones/PA via AP)

Ukraine currently does not have enough military equipment to defend itself, the country’s Ambassador to the United Kingdom, Vadym Prystaiko, said Thursday.

"At this particular moment, we have enough people; we don’t have enough equipment,” Prystaiko said when asked if Ukraine’s forces on the ground are capable of repelling Russia’s attack.

While speaking to reporters at the Ukrainian Embassy in London, he added that Ukraine has been open about needing military equipment, plus financial and humanitarian support from other countries. 

European Union leaders are expected to announce a package of humanitarian support for Ukraine later on Thursday as well as sanctions against Russia.




> “But we’re putting up a real fight … tanks, helicopters, planes being shot down. We are defending our land,” Prystaiko said.




Some areas are difficult to defend, he conceded, with Russia blocking the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov.

This is limiting Ukraine’s capabilities of bringing in reinforcements and supplies, he said, adding that humanitarian supplies will be needed “quite soon, quite critically” with the Russians “targeting critical infrastructure.”

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496873925447647236


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496882383760637953

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496883695638429697

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496883194305601543

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496873822594732035

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496883254502297604


----------



## Wood

Beast said:


> China economy USD 18 trillion vs India economy USD 2.9 trillion.
> 
> Who is the small fry? USA try to play trade war with China and got burn. So China is sanction proof. Good luck to India, you are in no position to compare to China.
> 
> Give up ties with Russia or face western sanctions.


Stop bragging. No one was making a comparison between India and China.


----------



## Beast

Wood said:


> Stop bragging. No one was making a comparison between India and China.


I am not bragging. I am telling the truth. Those are all based on facts. Western is angry. They want Russia dead economy or military. India continue trade with Russia will defeat western interest. They will not allow that to happen. India is in no position to bargain with western power.


----------



## The SC

ghazi52 said:


> Ukraine doesn't have enough equipment to repel Russian attack, Ukrainian diplomat says​From CNN's Amy Cassidy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian Ambassador to the UK Vadym Prystaiko speaks to the media at the Ukrainian Embassy in London on February 24. (Victoria Jones/PA via AP)
> 
> Ukraine currently does not have enough military equipment to defend itself, the country’s Ambassador to the United Kingdom, Vadym Prystaiko, said Thursday.
> 
> "At this particular moment, we have enough people; we don’t have enough equipment,” Prystaiko said when asked if Ukraine’s forces on the ground are capable of repelling Russia’s attack.
> 
> While speaking to reporters at the Ukrainian Embassy in London, he added that Ukraine has been open about needing military equipment, plus financial and humanitarian support from other countries.
> 
> European Union leaders are expected to announce a package of humanitarian support for Ukraine later on Thursday as well as sanctions against Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some areas are difficult to defend, he conceded, with Russia blocking the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov.
> 
> This is limiting Ukraine’s capabilities of bringing in reinforcements and supplies, he said, adding that humanitarian supplies will be needed “quite soon, quite critically” with the Russians “targeting critical infrastructure.”




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496875886464798721


----------



## Wood

Beast said:


> I am not bragging. I am telling the truth. Those are all based on facts. Western is angry. They want Russia dead economy or military. India continue trade with Russia will defeat western interest. They will not allow that to happen. India is in no position to bargain with western power.


.. again, this is your wishful thinking. It may or may not come true. Time will tell


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496880729317416968


----------



## RescueRanger

Russia's interior ministry tells TV viewers to "refrain from unsanctioned protests" & or they'll be "arrested & brought to responsibility." That's because there are "coronavirus restrictions, including on public events." Not because of calls to protest the war or anything

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## ghazi52

G7 leaders condemn Putin for attacking Ukraine:​"He has put himself on the wrong side of history"​From CNN's Kevin Liptak

In a joint statement following a virtual meeting Thursday, the leaders of the G7 said Russian President Vladimir Putin has "re-introduced war to the European continent."

"He has put himself on the wrong side of history," the leaders wrote.




> "We condemn President Putin for his consistent refusal to engage in a diplomatic process to address questions pertaining to European security, despite our repeated offers," the statement reads. "We stand united with partners, including NATO, the EU and their member states as well as Ukraine and remain determined to do what is necessary to preserve the integrity of the rules-based international order."




The G7 meeting concluded after just over an hour, according to a White House official, running 9:17 a.m. to 10:27 a.m. ET.


----------



## nang2

Beast said:


> I am not bragging. I am telling the truth. Those are all based on facts. Western is angry. They want Russia dead economy or military. India continue trade with Russia will defeat western interest. They will not allow that to happen. India is in no position to bargain with western power.


Bragging and telling the truth don't conflict with each other. Bragging only means to make pompous and self-praising statements, which may be true, too.


----------



## Oldman1

Windjammer said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496866235837218820


I was wondering how they know it was a 14 year old girl, but looks like they were there.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496881080594436098

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## RescueRanger

*Just a polite notice. Please refrain from posting visually distressing / gore pictures or videos unless they have been blurred. *

Thank you!

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## Windjammer

No matter who or which side you support
War is hell. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496885370671308800

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## ghazi52

The world hasn't witnessed a move like this "since World War II," senior US defense official says​From CNN's Ellie Kaufman and Oren Liebermann








A woman walks past debris in the aftermath of shelling in Mariupol, Ukraine, on February 24. (Evgeniy Maloletka/AP)


The world has not seen a “move like this, nation state-to-nation state, since World War II,” a senior US defense official told reporters Thursday about Russia's attack on Ukraine — “certainly nothing on this size and scope and scale.”

The official warned that if this conflict “unfolds the way that hereto we have come to believe it will,” it has “every potential to be very bloody, very costly and very impactful on European security writ large.”

“This is 100% a war of choice that [Russian President] Putin has decided to wage for reasons that are not justified,” the official added.


----------



## Man of steel23

Wood said:


> .. again, this is your wishful thinking. It may or may not come true. Time will tell



If you think Russia is strong you have no idea but strength is at your borders... If pak-china roll-out it will would be 150 times more then Russias strength you will be so shocked that your eyes will drop out of your mouth standing.. They could bring so much conventional forces they could fill the ocean..


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496881206033530886


----------



## Oldman1

Windjammer said:


> No matter who or which side you support
> War is hell.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496885370671308800



Looks like Russia forces are wearing red or white tape for easy identification.

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## Gripen9

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 818253
> 
> 
> Russia's interior ministry tells TV viewers to "refrain from unsanctioned protests" & or they'll be "arrested & brought to responsibility." That's because there are "coronavirus restrictions, including on public events." Not because of calls to protest the war or anything


I'd do whatever she tells me to do

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## Primus

Windjammer said:


> No matter who or which side you support
> War is hell.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496885370671308800


Are the troops filming russian or Ukrainian?


----------



## Wood

Man of steel23 said:


> If you think Russia is strong you have no idea but strength is at your borders... If pak-china roll-out it will would be 150 times more then Russias strength you will be so shocked that your eyes will drop out of your mouth standing.. They could bring so much conventional forces they could fill the ocean..


I don't care about what Pakistan can do in this geo political development

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## KAL-EL

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 818253
> 
> 
> Russia's interior ministry tells TV viewers to "refrain from unsanctioned protests" & or they'll be "arrested & brought to responsibility." That's because there are "coronavirus restrictions, including on public events." Not because of calls to protest the war or anything



The people protesting there currently are very brave.

Considering What could possibly happen to them

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## RescueRanger

Unconfirmed (user generated content) this video on social media which shows a low flying fighter jet firing missiles one of which strikes a residential building:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496887141716176897

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## manga

So how will this end ? Ukraine will now become a part of russia or ukraine will now have a puppet government ?


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496882274767278083

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## Man of steel23

Wood said:


> I don't care about what Pakistan can do in this geo political development



You have already played your hand time to sleep on it

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## Oldman1

Huffal said:


> Are the troops filming russian or Ukrainian?


Ukrainian. The dead troops are Russian.


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## khail007

HAIDER said:


> View attachment 818242





HAIDER said:


> Multiple military helicopters passing through the sky (left), the person filming says he counted "at least 30," and they are marked with a Russian flag. Later the NEXTA channel on Telegram shared a video of what it purports is one of the downed Russian military helicopters (right).



IMO, the helicopter in the right picture is K52. It may be taken a hit and crash-landed, seems both pilots survived.
To my knowledge, this is the only helicopter in the world with an ejection system. In case of an ejection, the rotors go off first. Here the rotors are intact and the helicopter also seems to be in pretty good recoverable shape. It proves that it is a pretty robust flying machine.

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## Pappa Alpha

Can we please keep China/Pakistan/India out of this thread! No one cares about India non alignment lolli or 2.5 phrunt waar in this thread.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496882980656238596

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## The Eagle

manga said:


> So how will this end ?



As it used to happen when US/West/NATO installs democracy in other countries. Russia will support a favourite regime change and can explain it well.

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## jamal18

As somebody who didn't believe that the attack would take place, what's the end game?

If the Russians plan to 'de-militarise' and 'de-Nazify' Ukraine, this can only mean the full occupation of Ukraine. In the face of Ukrainian insurgents?

And why recognize independent Russian enclaves in the Ukraine if you plan to occupy all of it?

Confused!

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## arjunk

Beast said:


> Dogfight of Su-35 (Russia) vs MIg-29 (UKraine)


Both are Ukrainian MiG-29


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496886759665586177

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## Crystal-Clear

KAL-EL said:


> President Biden can yap he wants
> 
> It doesn't change the fact that Ukraine is not a NATO member.


HaHa at last sissy nato have an excuse .


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## The Eagle

Moscow is willing to negotiate terms of surrender with Kiev regarding the ongoing Russian military offensive currently taking place in Ukraine, Kremlin Press Secretary Dmitry Peskov said on Thursday.









Russia ready to negotiate with Ukraine – Kremlin


Moscow is willing to negotiate with the leadership in Kiev, the Kremlin has said




www.rt.com

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496885132304736256


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## Hack-Hook

Daniel808 said:


> Doesnt have good air defence?
> 
> If Ukraine located in South East Asia, they would be one of the country with Strongest Air Defence Network in the region.
> 
> They have bunch of S-300V1, TOR, BUK, Strela, Tunguska, and many others.
> 
> They also have 69 unit 4-4.5th Gen combat aircraft (Sukhoi-27 & MIG-29) to have a good fight.
> 
> 
> But as you can see, Russian sucessfully obliterate their chain of command.
> If this continue, Russian would successfully turn Ukraine Armed Forces (UAF) become bunch of guerilla fighters in matter of week


you can't fight American with American Weapons , you can't fight Russian with Russians weapons and you can't fight chinese with chinese weapons . period.

we learnt it the hard way . if you build a stick , its way more successful in fighting those than the weapons made by them

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## Oldman1

The Eagle said:


> Moscow is willing to negotiate terms of surrender with Kiev regarding the ongoing Russian military offensive currently taking place in Ukraine, Kremlin Press Secretary Dmitry Peskov said on Thursday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia ready to negotiate with Ukraine – Kremlin
> 
> 
> Moscow is willing to negotiate with the leadership in Kiev, the Kremlin has said
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rt.com


That was quick. It means they don't have the logistics to sustain the fighting that long because all their forces are attacking at once and they can only supply so much to the units spread out.

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## RescueRanger

The Eagle said:


> Moscow is willing to negotiate terms of surrender with Kiev regarding the ongoing Russian military offensive currently taking place in Ukraine, Kremlin Press Secretary Dmitry Peskov said on Thursday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia ready to negotiate with Ukraine – Kremlin
> 
> 
> Moscow is willing to negotiate with the leadership in Kiev, the Kremlin has said
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rt.com


Both terms the Ukrainians cannot agree to.

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## R Wing

The Eagle said:


> Denazify............. this is exactly why I was looking for some Ukrainian volunteers' training footage with swastika flags. How come someone support a country that hosts Nazi mindset? At-least, Russia was not going to tolerate such thing in the neighbour and interestingly, West/US or Israel had no issue with those groups in Ukraine.
> 
> @RescueRanger



They have also never had an issue with 'moderate rebels' (terrorists who behead people) in Syria. In fact, they provided training, arms, logistical support, and medical aid (including on Israeli soil in field hospitals near the border) to AQ-linked militants. Truly amazing times. Democracy at work!

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## khail007

That Guy said:


> Also, sanctions are about punishing, as much as it is about getting nations to change their behavior.



By your logic, USA and UK are also to be included in the musical chair game 'SANCTIONS' for all their misdeeds for destabilizing the world's peace and killing thousands of innocent civilians in Afghanistan, VietNam, Korea, Syria, Iraq, Libya, etc.

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## RescueRanger

Oldman1 said:


> That was quick. It means they don't have the logistics to sustain the fighting that long because all their forces are attacking at once and they can only supply so much to the units spread out.



I think you misunderstand, the *Russians are asking the Ukrainians* to surrender and have offered them 2 terms.

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## TsAr

Where is TT Aziz Iqbal who said that UK and USA will fight with Ukrainians and make living hell for Russia

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## R Wing

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496874865952972806



The US: Russia is doing what we have done to many countries thousands of miles away who pose no direct threat to our homeland 

...except Russia is doing it to a neighbor that can directly destabilize it in the near-term.

Gotta love the self-delusion and hypocrisy of the yanks!

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## That Guy

khail007 said:


> By your logic, USA and UK are also to be included in the musical chair game 'SANCTIONS' for all their misdeeds for destabilizing the world's peace and killing thousands of innocent civilians in Afghanistan, VietNam, Korea, Syria, Iraq, Libya, etc.


By my logic? Bro, are you trolling right now? What are you talking about?


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## Oldman1

RescueRanger said:


> I think you misunderstand, the *Russians are asking the Ukrainians* to surrender and have offered them 2 terms.



Well hopefully they don't cause the Russians don't have the logistics to sustain this offensive in the long run.

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## The Eagle

Oldman1 said:


> That was quick. It means they don't have the logistics to sustain the fighting that long because all their forces are attacking at once and they can only supply so much to the units spread out.



Did you read terms of negotiations or just reacted to it? They are not offering but asking to surrender.

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## Joe Shearer

Man of steel23 said:


> If you think Russia is strong you have no idea but strength is at your borders... If pak-china roll-out it will would be 150 times more then Russias strength you will be so shocked that your eyes will drop out of your mouth standing.. They could bring so much conventional forces they could fill the ocean..


❓

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## RescueRanger

6 min ago
Ukraine's Ministry of Internal Affairs reports nearly 400 instances of shelling by Russian forces​From CNN's Anastasia Graham-Yooll in London 

Ukraine’s Ministry of Internal Affairs says it has reported 392 instances of shelling by Russian forces in Ukraine, a spokesperson for the ministry said Thursday. 


> “Battles continue practically along the entire territory of southeastern and central Ukraine,” the spokesperson said, noting that six bridges were also destroyed in the Kyiv, Chernihiv, Donetsk and Kherson regions.


“Our fighters of Ukraine's military forces and National Guard, our Border Force, our reservists continue to defend our country. Victory will be ours,” the spokesperson added.


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## EAGLE777

Vergennes said:


> Russian KA52 downed
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496811877313228800


Great reply from Sourcuf 😅


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## Aesterix

NATO provoked Russia by trying to include Ex soviet and Slavic nations In the organisation. Shouldn't have done so.

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## khail007

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496878014902284289



It means that water scarcity due to the closure of canals/waterways will be one of the major causes of conflicts/wars in the near future, we should also prepare ourselves.

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## R Wing

ghazi52 said:


> Russia's invasion of Ukraine "cannot go unpunished," Spain PM says​From CNN’s Al Goodman in Madrid
> 
> Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez on Thursday said Russia’s invasion of Ukraine will have “far-reaching consequences and cannot go unpunished.”
> 
> In a nationally-televised address in Madrid, he called on Russian President Vladimir Putin “to put an immediate end to the hostilities and revoke” Russia's recognition of territories in Ukraine.
> 
> Sánchez said the “European Union and the rest of the allies of the union had already approved a first package of measures” against Russia and that the EU’s Council is to meet later Thursday “to define its answer to this flagrant violation of international law.”
> 
> He called for a coordinated and unified European response and said sanctions against Russia would be the most effective approach.



Democracies at work after denying the Catalans their independence using false flag attacks and every other dirty trick in the book. Amazing!

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## ghazi52

Ukraine's Ministry of Internal Affairs reports nearly 400 instances of shelling by Russian forces​From CNN's Anastasia Graham-Yooll in London 

Ukraine’s Ministry of Internal Affairs says it has reported 392 instances of shelling by Russian forces in Ukraine, a spokesperson for the ministry said Thursday. 




> “Battles continue practically along the entire territory of southeastern and central Ukraine,” the spokesperson said, noting that six bridges were also destroyed in the Kyiv, Chernihiv, Donetsk and Kherson regions.




“Our fighters of Ukraine's military forces and National Guard, our Border Force, our reservists continue to defend our country. Victory will be ours,” the spokesperson added.


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## Joe Shearer

Man of steel23 said:


> If you think Russia is strong you have no idea but strength is at your borders... If pak-china roll-out it will would be 150 times more then Russias strength you will be so shocked that your eyes will drop out of your mouth standing.. They could bring so much conventional forces they could fill the ocean..


In the 1960s, when I was a little, tiny boy, I heard the Albanians tell the rest of the world, "We and the Chinese are 600 million strong."

It was perfectly accurate, of course.

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## RescueRanger

Oldman1 said:


> Well hopefully they don't cause the Russians don't have the logistics to sustain this offensive in the long run.


Umm, you really don't know Russia. I suggest studying the subject a little more:









Russia’s Possible Invasion of Ukraine


Download the Brief The Issue If peace talks fail, the Russian military has several options to advance into Ukraine through northern, central, and southern invasion routes. But a Russian attempt to seize and hold territory will not necessarily be easy and will likely be impacted by challenges...




www.csis.org

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## shanipisces2002

RescueRanger said:


> Ukraine's president says Russian forces are attempting to seize control of Chernobyl nuclear power plant​From CNN’s Anastasia Graham-Yooll in London and Gul Tuysuz in Kyiv
> 
> Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky tweeted that Russian forces are attempting to seize control of the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant.
> “Russian occupation forces are trying to seize the Chernobyl [Nuclear Power Plant]. Our defenders are sacrificing their lives so that the tragedy of 1986 will not be repeated,” Zelensky tweeted.


I think this zelensky is a complete idiot he is the main reason for ukraine to be in this mess he should have kept ties with Russia instead to inclining towards West /nato

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496892796208390144


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## Joe Shearer

Gripen9 said:


> I'd do whatever she tells me to do


WhatEVER?

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## R Wing

ghazi52 said:


> The world hasn't witnessed a move like this "since World War II," senior US defense official says​From CNN's Ellie Kaufman and Oren Liebermann
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A woman walks past debris in the aftermath of shelling in Mariupol, Ukraine, on February 24. (Evgeniy Maloletka/AP)
> 
> 
> The world has not seen a “move like this, nation state-to-nation state, since World War II,” a senior US defense official told reporters Thursday about Russia's attack on Ukraine — “certainly nothing on this size and scope and scale.”
> 
> The official warned that if this conflict “unfolds the way that hereto we have come to believe it will,” it has “every potential to be very bloody, very costly and very impactful on European security writ large.”
> 
> “This is 100% a war of choice that [Russian President] Putin has decided to wage for reasons that are not justified,” the official added.



NATO nations complaining about this has got to be the joke of the century after Iraq, Libya, Syria and more...

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## Scorpio_26

Damn!!

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496876163553243138

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## Oldman1

RescueRanger said:


> Umm, you really don't know Russia. I suggest studying the subject a little more:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia’s Possible Invasion of Ukraine
> 
> 
> Download the Brief The Issue If peace talks fail, the Russian military has several options to advance into Ukraine through northern, central, and southern invasion routes. But a Russian attempt to seize and hold territory will not necessarily be easy and will likely be impacted by challenges...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.csis.org



Yes from the source you just sent.
*Logistics: The initial attack will likely be well supported with artillery and air support, leading to several breakthroughs in Ukrainian defenses. However, once combat units expend their initial stores of ammunition, fuel, and food, the real test of Russian military strength will begin—including Russia’s ability to sustain the advance of a massive mechanized force over hundreds of miles of territory. Kiev and the Dnepr River crossings are at least 150 to 200 road miles from the Russian border, and its army will require at least several days of fighting to reach them. Before that, they will undoubtedly have to resupply, refuel, and replace combat losses of men and material at least once, which will require an operational pause.

In his article “Feeding the Bear,” Alex Vershinin argues that there are serious logistical challenges to a Russian invasion that is supposed to roll over the Baltic states in 96 hours and present the West with a fait accompli. Russia has built an excellent war machine for fighting near its frontier and striking deep with long-range fires. However, Russia may have trouble with a sustained ground offensive far beyond Russian railroads without a major logistical halt or a massive mobilization of reserves.14 As the operational depth in Ukraine is far greater than in the Baltics, a Russian invasion of Ukraine could be a longer affair than some anticipate due to the time and distance to bring up supplies. If the invasion is not concluded quickly due to a combination of weather, logistics, and Ukrainian resistance, how might this impact Russian morale?*

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## RescueRanger

Oldman1 said:


> Yes from the source you just sent.
> *Logistics: The initial attack will likely be well supported with artillery and air support, leading to several breakthroughs in Ukrainian defenses. However, once combat units expend their initial stores of ammunition, fuel, and food, the real test of Russian military strength will begin—including Russia’s ability to sustain the advance of a massive mechanized force over hundreds of miles of territory. Kiev and the Dnepr River crossings are at least 150 to 200 road miles from the Russian border, and its army will require at least several days of fighting to reach them. Before that, they will undoubtedly have to resupply, refuel, and replace combat losses of men and material at least once, which will require an operational pause.
> 
> In his article “Feeding the Bear,” Alex Vershinin argues that there are serious logistical challenges to a Russian invasion that is supposed to roll over the Baltic states in 96 hours and present the West with a fait accompli. Russia has built an excellent war machine for fighting near its frontier and striking deep with long-range fires. However, Russia may have trouble with a sustained ground offensive far beyond Russian railroads without a major logistical halt or a massive mobilization of reserves.14 As the operational depth in Ukraine is far greater than in the Baltics, a Russian invasion of Ukraine could be a longer affair than some anticipate due to the time and distance to bring up supplies. If the invasion is not concluded quickly due to a combination of weather, logistics, and Ukrainian resistance, how might this impact Russian morale?*



Selective reading?



> *Russia has built an excellent war machine for fighting near its frontier and striking deep with long-range fires.*

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## kingQamaR

I have watched some video clips of Moscow police arrest anti war protests. And in the film you can see Russian public standing there quietly no outburst against the protesters just sad faces agreeing in silence this wrong disaster for Russia

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## MH.Yang

Beast said:


> It's not about India and Russia not affected but simply western want Russia dead. India continue dealing with Russia in military or economy will be giving Russia a lifeline. This is not western want. They will sanction any countries who work with Russia except China.
> 
> India has no choice but to obey western rules and forgo Russia ties. India is too weak to resist western power.


In fact, Russia is India's strongest and most reliable ally, and USA will abandon India sooner or later.
Whatever the relationship between Russia and China, Russia will avoid the collapse of India, but USA is different. Because China's economic surpassing USA will not end American hegemony, and China's and India's economic surpassing USA together will inevitably end American hegemony. When India's economy grows to a certain extent (in 1985, the Japanese economy was equivalent to 40% of the US economy, and USA began to suppress Japan), USA must give priority to attacking the Indian economy.

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## ghazi52

Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi. Photo: AFP

By AFP
February 24, 2022

BEIJING: Beijing on Thursday told Russia’s foreign minister it understands Moscow’s "reasonable concerns on security issues" over Ukraine, according to a statement from the Chinese foreign ministry, after President Vladimir Putin ordered an attack on the country.

Putin announced the launch of a major military offensive with ground troops crossing into the country from several directions on Thursday and explosions heard in Ukraine’s capital Kyiv.

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## Oldman1

RescueRanger said:


> Selective reading?



Selective reading? This is about Ukraine, next to Russia. 
*In his article “Feeding the Bear,” Alex Vershinin argues that there are serious logistical challenges to a Russian invasion that is supposed to roll over the Baltic states in 96 hours and present the West with a fait accompli. Russia has built an excellent war machine for fighting near its frontier and striking deep with long-range fires. However, Russia may have trouble with a sustained ground offensive far beyond Russian railroads without a major logistical halt or a massive mobilization of reserves.14 As the operational depth in Ukraine is far greater than in the Baltics, a Russian invasion of Ukraine could be a longer affair than some anticipate due to the time and distance to bring up supplies.*

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## ghazi52

On the ground, the Ukrainian military say they have launched an artillery attack on Russian paratroopers who have landed at Antonov Airport near Kyiv and tried to take control.

The airport, which is a significant international cargo port and also a military base, is about an hour and a half's drive from Kyiv.

The fighting there is understood to be the closest that Russian forces have managed to get to the Ukrainian capital on the first day of their invasion.

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## RescueRanger

For anyone poo pooing the capabilities of the Russian military, please engage your brain and recognize that Putin and his military have adopted a "shock and awe" blitzkrieg offensive and they have been successful in their initial objective:







Lets just hope sane minds prevail and this ends with some sort of diplomatic parlay and no further loss of life.


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## Meengla

Lets record for posterity a few things. The Russian objective of toppling the Zelensky Ukraine govt. The political opportunism in America. And the not-so-veiled threat of nuclear weapons by an angry and cornered Putin.

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## RescueRanger

Oldman1 said:


> Selective reading? This is about Ukraine, next to Russia.
> *In his article “Feeding the Bear,” Alex Vershinin argues that there are serious logistical challenges to a Russian invasion that is supposed to roll over the Baltic states in 96 hours and present the West with a fait accompli. Russia has built an excellent war machine for fighting near its frontier and striking deep with long-range fires. However, Russia may have trouble with a sustained ground offensive far beyond Russian railroads without a major logistical halt or a massive mobilization of reserves.14 As the operational depth in Ukraine is far greater than in the Baltics, a Russian invasion of Ukraine could be a longer affair than some anticipate due to the time and distance to bring up supplies.*



The Russians have already archived their objective! Hence my initial rebuke!

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## Pappa Alpha

I think NATO has no stomach for a fight against Russia. They/Them with two moms vs Ivan the bear.

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## jamal18

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496886759665586177


 Notice how the lying media spin the narrative that this is all due to a 'madman' Putin.

This is all about NATO's expansion eastwards.

1. After the unification of Germany, the Russians were promised that NATO would not expand 'one inch' eastwards. The Russians were lied to.

2.The last US ambassador to the _Soviet Union _ testified to congress that the Eastward expansion of NATO would be 'the greatest foreign policy blunder of the post-cold war era'. They should have listened.

3. Ukraine joining NATO means that missiles launched towards Russia will give the Russians virtually no warning.

As the former Indian foreign minister said, the West has had years to solve Russian security concerns and didn't. It is not Russian aggression, but the West's aggression that is the problem.

The BBC will not tell you that.

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## nang2

Didn't you guys notice that Internet in Ukraine has been running fairly well?

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## RescueRanger

Pappa Alpha said:


> I think NATO has no stomach for a fight against Russia.


The western nations have already stated in unequivocal terms, that military options are off the table!


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## ghazi52

*Lesson for India*

.....................only target banking,,,, no Military's support

The UK will work with allies to target Russian finances, Boris Johnson tells the House of Commons.

Russia's shares are falling fast, with the rouble plummeting to record lows against the dollar, he says.

The PM then promises to counter "the Kremlins blizzard of lies and disinformation".

Nato's defences must be strengthened and the leaders of member nations will meet on Friday, he adds.


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## ZeEa5KPul

The Eagle said:


> And there was another about training in night time and volunteers stood behind reporter with flags. one of them was exactly like this one...
> View attachment 818217


Hi @Deino, you've been putting some angry emojis on my posts here. What do you think about this?


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## Oldman1

RescueRanger said:


> The Russians have already archived their objective! Hence my initial rebuke!



LOL! They haven't if they are still fighting and still don't see a Ukrainian President surrender yet. Sending airborne troops to the airport is not the same as taking over Kiev. They asking for terms of surrender after just 1 day of operations? What does that tell you? And with Russian casualties piling up and have to sustain the fighting, this is far from over.


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## ghazi52

These are the sanctions Prime Minister Boris Johnson has just announced the UK will put on Russia:

All major Russian banks will have their assets frozen and will be excluded from the UK financial system. This will stop them from accessing sterling and clearing payments through the UK. This includes a full and immediate freeze of VTB bank
Legislation will stop major Russian companies and the state from raising finance or borrowing money on UK markets
Asset freezes will be put on 100 new individuals or entities
The Aeroflot airline will be banned from landing in the UK
There will be a suspension of dual use export licences to cover things which can be used for military purposes
Within days the UK will stop exports of hi-tech items and oil refinery equipment
There will be a limit on deposits Russians can make to UK bank accounts
The UK has an intention to "work with allies" to shut off Swift payments but "its a challenge", Johnson said
Similar financial sanctions will be extended to Belarus for its role in the assault on Ukraine
The UK will bring forward parts of the economic crime bill before the Easter recess

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## khail007

That Guy said:


> By my logic? Bro, are you trolling right now? What are you talking about?


Sir, don't shield behind 'trolling'. Your logic was 'SANCTIONS' for punishment (which here clearly means to punishment Russians for attacking Ukraine - isn't it? OR Is there any room left of diplomacy?). What I asked you is just in reference to that punishment.
If you are feeling, that I wrongly answered than do not answer my post - it is that simple.

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## ghazi52

On the ground: Moscow wakes up to war​From CNN's Nic Robertson in Moscow

In the hours after Russia began invading Ukraine, the scenes in Moscow were subdued. People who spoke to CNN about the conflict seemed surprised and concerned, as many of them had just started tuning in.

Russia's massive propaganda machine has not given the crisis between Kyiv and the Kremlin the same sort of billing as has the international media. State television, the main source of information for older Russians, has been echoing the message of Vladimir Putin. 

The Russian President has framed the conflict as a mission to protect Russian speakers in the Donbas region from genocide — an accusation the Russian president has repeatedly leveled without proof. Russian state media is also parroting the Kremlin's other unsubstantiated claims — that the Ukrainian government of attempting to obtain nuclear weapons and "nazify" the country, despite the fact that Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky is Jewish.

News reports have also, for the most part, failed to mention the Russian military's decision to strike targets in places far from east Ukraine, like the capital of Kyiv and the southern port city of Odessa.
That doesn't mean all Russians are being spoon-fed Putin's narrative. Russia is not North Korea. People who want to get independent information from foreign-language media outlets can do so.
So far, there has not been the surge of patriotic fervor that accompanied Russia's largely bloodless annexation of Crimea from Ukraine in 2014. There are likely many Russians who would prefer to see Putin tackle Russia's economic problems at home.

But gauging public opinion in Russia — especially opposition to the Kremlin — has become increasingly difficult in recent years. Putin has increasingly cracked down on independent media, hollowed out its civil society and all but banished peaceful dissent. 

Putin has increasingly cracked down on independent media, hollowed out its civil society and all but banished peaceful dissent. Even tweeting about planned protests can potentially land someone in jail. 

If would-be protesters weren't already spooked, Russian authorities on Thursday warned citizens that participating in anti-war protests could lead to prosecution and criminal charges.

On the ground: Moscow wakes up to war​From CNN's Nic Robertson in Moscow

In the hours after Russia began invading Ukraine, the scenes in Moscow were subdued. People who spoke to CNN about the conflict seemed surprised and concerned, as many of them had just started tuning in.

Russia's massive propaganda machine has not given the crisis between Kyiv and the Kremlin the same sort of billing as has the international media. State television, the main source of information for older Russians, has been echoing the message of Vladimir Putin. 

The Russian President has framed the conflict as a mission to protect Russian speakers in the Donbas region from genocide — an accusation the Russian president has repeatedly leveled without proof. Russian state media is also parroting the Kremlin's other unsubstantiated claims — that the Ukrainian government of attempting to obtain nuclear weapons and "nazify" the country, despite the fact that Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky is Jewish.

News reports have also, for the most part, failed to mention the Russian military's decision to strike targets in places far from east Ukraine, like the capital of Kyiv and the southern port city of Odessa.
That doesn't mean all Russians are being spoon-fed Putin's narrative. Russia is not North Korea. People who want to get independent information from foreign-language media outlets can do so.
So far, there has not been the surge of patriotic fervor that accompanied Russia's largely bloodless annexation of Crimea from Ukraine in 2014. There are likely many Russians who would prefer to see Putin tackle Russia's economic problems at home.

But gauging public opinion in Russia — especially opposition to the Kremlin — has become increasingly difficult in recent years. Putin has increasingly cracked down on independent media, hollowed out its civil society and all but banished peaceful dissent. 

Putin has increasingly cracked down on independent media, hollowed out its civil society and all but banished peaceful dissent. Even tweeting about planned protests can potentially land someone in jail. 

If would-be protesters weren't already spooked, Russian authorities on Thursday warned citizens that participating in anti-war protests could lead to prosecution and criminal charges.

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## scherz

Windjammer said:


> No matter who or which side you support
> War is hell.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496885370671308800


War is hell, the commanders should fight it by themself. Poor regulary people who had no choice.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496896454476148745


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## sur

The Eagle said:


> *Denazify*............. this is exactly why I was looking for some Ukrainian volunteers' training footage with swastika flags. How come someone support a country that hosts Nazi mindset? At-least, Russia was not going to tolerate such thing in the neighbour *and interestingly, West/US or Israel had no issue with* those groups in Ukraine.
> 
> @RescueRanger


They may not take issue with it because hidden deep inside them may be many Nazis, those too in top positions.

For example, US space program's _Wernher Magnus Maximilian Freiherr von Braun_ "*He applied for membership of the Nazi Party* on 12 November 1937, and was issued membership number 5,738,692."

And movie "*Inside Man*" (link) alludes to that ~*half of Fortune 500* *has Nazi links*. And movie shows how *one of the largest banker in US colluded with Nazis* against his own clan.




Genghis khan1 said:


> View attachment 818270



I think *NATO knows well that because Russians just asked for a buffer *hence* they will stop after creating a buffer*.
These areas Russia is invading now are probably already highly infested by pro-Russians.
So fighting among a lot of pro-Russians may not be productive for Ukrainians.
Hence they are not putting up a lots of resistance, yet. As if they already knew these areas were untenable.
Only if Russians go further than these pro-Russian areas, that's when Ukrainians will go all out resisting and will dump all NATO provided weapons.
I think NATO planes in air over Poland are keeping an eye on the same that Russians don't cross more that the buffer they are expected to create.

*Most likely Russia will stop after cutting out a buffer zone*. That's all Russians asked from NATO too - to leave Ukraine's Status quo as a buffer and NOT try to get it incorporated into NATO:



sur said:


> As per this speech, the gist of Ukraine issue is that Russia will never let a strategically important piece of real estate (Ukraine) become a NATO base/ally.
> Russia asks West to let the status quo continue, keep the conflict frozen by staying away from Ukraine. Or else to prevent that, Russia will wreck Ukraine. Just so that West cannot have it in their pocket.
> 
> 
> They want this:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 815535
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Not this*, which puts NATO & Russia eye ball to eye ball against each other:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 815536



And this is what that buffer zone may look like after Russians stop.
The C-shaped area where arrows point:



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496870784844779520




Below, *Biden said* the same that *Russia wants to create two new so-called republics* unilaterally:



Messerschmitt said:


>



Edit: Just noticed on map that there's a river "Dineper river" crossing Ukraine top to bottom.
Russia may carve out another country up to that Dineper river!!


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## ZeEa5KPul

kingQamaR said:


> I have watched some video clips of Moscow police arrest anti war protests. And in the film you can see Russian public standing there quietly no outburst against the protesters just sad faces agreeing in silence this wrong disaster for Russia


That's nothing unusual. War is an ugly thing and people have a natural and healthy revulsion to it. However, people are also short-sighted and concerned exclusively with their day-to-day lives. They have no conception of the long term strategic threats they face that require decisive action.

A fascist coup in a neighbouring country with a very highly developed historical nuclear weapons program is a threat that cannot be ignored forever. Putin tried every avenue to make peace and the last straw was Zelensky declaring that Ukraine would seek a nuclear weapon.

This isn't Iran which has to start a weapons program from scratch, this is a country with a very sophisticated nuclear and missile industry and the experience of producing and stockpiling a very large portion of the Soviet Union's nuclear arsenal.

Russia is simply responding to an existential threat.

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## Genghis khan1



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## ghazi52

As Russia launches an operation in Ukraine, prompting outrage and sanctions from the US and several other nations in the West, China has indicated that an "independent power" like Russia does not need Beijing's backing for actions in Ukraine, clarifying that it was not supporting nor condemning Moscow for its actions.

"As for the US suggestion that Russia has China's backing to act, I believe Russia will be very unhappy to hear such a statement," Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying told the media during a regular press briefing on Thursday, according to a report by _RT_.

The state-run Russian broadcaster quoted Chunying as saying that Russia was a permanent member of the UN Security Council and an independent power. Moscow's actions, she added, were based on its own judgement and national interests.

Relations between China and Russia were based on non-alignment, non-confrontation and non-targeting of third parties, she said, adding that "China is not interested in, and has no intention of following, the Cold War mentality of either friend or foe," according to _RT_.

​

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## ghazi52

Ukraine's president says Russian forces are attempting to seize control of Chernobyl nuclear power plant​From CNN’s Anastasia Graham-Yooll in London and Gul Tuysuz in Kyiv

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky tweeted that Russian forces are attempting to seize control of the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant.

“Russian occupation forces are trying to seize the Chernobyl [Nuclear Power Plant]. Our defenders are sacrificing their lives so that the tragedy of 1986 will not be repeated,” Zelensky tweeted.

*“This is a declaration of war against the whole of Europe,” he added.*

The Ukrainian Foreign Ministry echoed Zelensky's warning, tweeting that a Russian attack on Ukraine could “cause another ecological disaster.”


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## nang2

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496896454476148745


If that type of war belongs to the history, so should NATO. But NATO is live and kicking. Therefore, this type of war is live and kicking.

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## That Guy

khail007 said:


> Sir, don't shield behind 'trolling'. Your logic was 'SANCTIONS' for punishment (which here clearly means to punishment Russians for attacking Ukraine - isn't it? OR Is there any room left of diplomacy?). What I asked you is just in reference to that punishment.
> If you are feeling, that I wrongly answered than do not answer my post - it is that simple.



Let's put it like this, the world order dictates that those in power can punish by sanctions those who are not in power.

What you said was absurd, and completely the opposite of what I said. Don't just make things up.


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## dBSPL

Photo of a captive Russian soldier. It doesn't look very russian, but anyway...

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496803601049600002

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## RescueRanger

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/01/ukraine-russia-kyiv-putin-bluff/621145/

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## Oldman1

dBSPL said:


> Photo of a captive Russian soldier. It doesn't look very russian, but anyway...
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496803601049600002



I've seen Russians that look Asian........

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## EAGLE777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496875065052254208

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## ZeEa5KPul

ghazi52 said:


> “Russian occupation forces are trying to seize the Chernobyl [Nuclear Power Plant]. Our defenders are sacrificing their lives so that the tragedy of 1986 will not be repeated,” Zelensky tweeted.
> 
> *“This is a declaration of war against the whole of Europe,” he added.*


What is the deal with people who think like this? Does he think that if he repeats this enough that NATO will go to war against Russia? They've already made clear, _publicly, repeatedly_ that they're not going to war on Ukraine's behalf. How can someone who purports to be a president be this naive and simple-minded?

I don't know if this is ever going to end. Stupid, gullible people the world over are dragging their countries into suicidal confrontations and then screaming "Where's America/NATO/the EU?" when they get their clocks cleaned.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496900193886912517


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## The Eagle

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496896454476148745



Meanwhile....

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## dBSPL

One of the downed KA-52s. It was shot down by a heat-seeking missile, but the pilots were able to land the helicopter in one piece.
It seems helicopter took off without an exhaust suppressor. This is an important detail. It may point to the extent of Russian logistics. @Deino

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## jamal18

ZeEa5KPul said:


> That's nothing unusual. War is an ugly thing and people have a natural and healthy revulsion to it. However, people are also short-sighted and concerned exclusively with their day-to-day lives. They have no conception of the long term strategic threats they face that require decisive action.
> 
> A fascist coup in a neighbouring country with a very highly developed historical nuclear weapons program is a threat that cannot be ignored forever. Putin tried every avenue to make peace and the last straw was Zelensky declaring that Ukraine would seek a nuclear weapon.
> 
> This isn't Iran which has to start a weapons program from scratch, this is a country with a very sophisticated nuclear and missile industry and the experience of producing and stockpiling a very large portion of the Soviet Union's nuclear arsenal.
> 
> Russia is simply responding to an existential threat.



At last fine words of reason.

The core is 'existential' threat. This was the diplomatic 'red line' that the Russians would never allow to be crossed. The West was told this and instead of addressing it, instigated the coup of 2014 that bought a bunch of Nazis to power.

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> Photo of a captive Russian soldier. It doesn't look very russian, but anyway...
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496803601049600002


He is a Chechen, not all Russians are white skinned, green eyed.

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## Iron Shrappenel

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496881206033530886


Phattu...

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## Oldman1

dBSPL said:


> Photo of a captive Russian soldier. It doesn't look very russian, but anyway...
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496803601049600002


The one on the left looks more Russian.








But also Russian.

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## That Guy

The Eagle said:


> Meanwhile....
> View attachment 818273


Well, yeah. They're not gonna instantly switch suppliers. It takes time to switch over.

I don't know why everyone expected Europe to instantly abandon Russian gas, and have no gas for the next few days.

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## RescueRanger

Once again polite reminder - please don't post images of bodies/gore unless they are blurred. If posting a graphic image, either blur it or post a warning and share a link:

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## That Guy

Oldman1 said:


> I've seen Russians that look Asian........


Russia is a huge country with dozens of ethnic groups, so yes, there are Russians that look Asian.

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## dBSPL

Nature is often your worst enemy in war.

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## Man of steel23

RescueRanger said:


> He is a Chechen, not all Russians are white skinned, green eyed.



No but Armenian.... 

There is large armenian population in Russia besides chechens don't like semites but armenians do

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## The Eagle

That Guy said:


> Well, yeah. They're not gonna instantly switch suppliers. It takes time to switch over.
> 
> I don't know why everyone expected Europe to instantly abandon Russian gas, and have no gas for the next few days.



Don't you think that all those warnings & sanctions were not for an instant implications but till Russia gets done with Ukraine and then they will allegedly boycott. How could they let Russians to do all that and still buying from them but calling for sanctions? Hence, it is proven and reveals that personal interests are above anyone's else problems. A Europe supposedly helping Ukraine cannot live without gas for next few days and had no contingency/alternative plan for switching the supplier despite the fact that they knew or at-least claimed that Russia will invade Ukraine. Speechless.

Edit: How could everyone expected Russia is not aware of consequences but rushes into Ukraine.

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## ZeEa5KPul

The Eagle said:


> Don't you think that all those warnings & sanctions were not for an instant implications but till Russia gets done with Ukraine and then they will allegedly boycott. How could they let Russians to do all that and still buying from them but calling for sanctions? Hence, it is proven and reveals that personal interests are above anyone's else problems. A Europe supposedly helping Ukraine cannot live without gas for next few days and had no contingency/alternative plan for switching the supplier despite the fact that they knew or at-least claimed that Russia will invade Ukraine. Speechless.


They have no alternative. A third of Europe's gas comes from Russia, it is *impossible *for them to let go of it for the next generation.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496903290939969537


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## khail007

That Guy said:


> Let's put it like this, the world order dictates that those in power can punish by sanctions those who are not in power.


So, in brief, these wars are imposed by dictators thru 'world order' on weak nations, though these so-called dictators are champs of democracy, no right/wrong concept or any principles. Might is Right.
They attack weak nations and impose a game of 'SANCTIONS' against the powerful to whom they are unable or feel weak to confront on battlefields.



That Guy said:


> What you said was absurd, and completely the opposite of what I said. Don't just make things up.


IMO, here whatever you have stated is an absurd statement.

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## Khanate

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496879176950894594


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## 1ndy

Hack-Hook said:


> you can't fight American with American Weapons , you can't fight Russian with Russians weapons and you can't fight chinese with chinese weapons . period.
> 
> we learnt it the hard way . if you build a stick , its way more successful in fighting those than the weapons made by them


That's why India purchase most weapons from Russia?


----------



## Abid123

Where are the people claiming that China would invade Taiwan after Russia invades?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496900331296501763


----------



## jamal18

ZeEa5KPul said:


> They have no alternative. A third of Europe's gas comes from Russia, it is *impossible *for them to let go of it for the next generation.



A lot of economics is 'hard wired'. You simply cannot change a nations supplier of gas, oil or anything else at a whim. If they stopped russian gas now, nobody could take up the deficit. Also industry is built for certain types eg oil from one country cannot simply be replaced by oil from another.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496904436190429187

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496904291784790026

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496903090343133187

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## RescueRanger

Man of steel23 said:


> No but Armenian....
> 
> There is large armenian population in Russia besides chechens don't like semites but armenians do


They are from a special battalion of Chechen soldiers loyal to Moscow, they have a strong tradition of recruiting Chechens:

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## Iron Shrappenel

The Eagle said:


> And there was another about training in night time and volunteers stood behind reporter with flags. one of them was exactly like this one...
> View attachment 818217


What is the point being made here ?


----------



## Abid123

Oldman1 said:


> They are fighting back. This conflict just barely started. Russia is trying to go fast. Shock and awe.


"Barely started" but the Russians are already outside Kiev?


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## The Eagle

Iron Shrappenel said:


> What is the point being made here ?



NAZISM or neo-Nazis


----------



## terry5

Kick Chelsea out the champions league boris Johnson if you dare .

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## Abid123

RescueRanger said:


> They are from a special battalion of Chechen soldiers loyal to Moscow, they have a strong tradition of recruiting Chechens:


Chehchens are some really tough warriors.

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## Flight of falcon

Khanate said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496879176950894594




Really a picture of one unknown person and read the caption … lol


----------



## terry5

Ukraine strikes back: Kiev's troops have already shot down five Russian helicopters, destroyed dozens of tanks and captured at least 80 troops as Putin's forces take heavy losses​


Ukrainian troops have shot down five Russian helicopters, (bottom left) destroyed dozens of tanks (top right) and captured at least six troops (top left and bottom right) in the first hours since Vladimir Putin ordered his forces to invade this morning. Kiev's military is far inferior to its Russian counterpart with an air defense system and air force date back to the Soviet era. But NATO and the US, despite deploying soldiers to neighbouring Romania in recent months, have made it clear that no troops will be sent and left the Ukrainian military to hold off the assault alone. By Thursday afternoon, battles were ongoing in Kiev, along the northern border with Belarus, in Luhansk and Donetsk in the east and around Kherson, the Dneiper River, and the port cities of Odessa and Mariupol in the south. Few expect Ukraine to emerge victorious from what is almost certain to be a prolonged, bloody, and vicious war - but so far, Kiev's forces have managed to inflict heavy losses on Putin's troops. Here MailOnline takes a look at what losses Ukrainian forces have inflicted on Russia.

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## Reichmarshal

Somthing more than wt meets the eye.

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## beast89

Windjammer said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496866235837218820


RIP


----------



## terry5

Russia troops attacking CHERNOBYL could set off radiation cloud across Europe, Ukraine warns as bomb hits ship owned by NATO-member Turkey in Black Sea and Kiev sends citizens to shelters ahead of 'imminent' bombing ​Ukrainian border guards are 'vigorously' fighting Russian troops for control of the Chernobyl exclusion zone, 60 miles north of Kiev, amid fears the battle could damage nuclear storage facilities - creating a cloud of fallout that could blanket Europe. Meanwhile Turkey said one of its ships had been hit by a 'bomb' near the port of Odessa and was heading to Romania with damage. Turkey is a NATO member state, amid fears other nations could be quickly sucked into the fighting and spark an all-out war in Europe. Ukrainian forces were this afternoon fighting Russia in virtually every region of the country, including just 15 miles north of the capital at Antonov air base - with civilians told to rush to bomb shelters amid fears the Russians will bombard the city. Battles are also taking place in Luhansk and Donetsk in the east and around Kherson, the Dneiper River, and the port cities of Odessa and Mariupol in the south.


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## Oldman1

Abid123 said:


> "Barely started" but the Russians are already outside Kiev?


So if you parachuted 82nd Airborne on an airport near the capitol of a country on first day, you believe its all over?


----------



## That Guy

The Eagle said:


> Don't you think that all those warnings & sanctions were not for an instant implications but till Russia gets done with Ukraine and then they will allegedly boycott. How could they let Russians to do all that and still buying from them but calling for sanctions? Hence, it is proven and reveals that personal interests are above anyone's else problems. A Europe supposedly helping Ukraine cannot live without gas for next few days and had no contingency/alternative plan for switching the supplier despite the fact that they knew or at-least claimed that Russia will invade Ukraine. Speechless.
> 
> Edit: How could everyone expected Russia is not aware of consequences but rushes into Ukraine.


Europe and US are targeting other sources, and those sanctions have been quite devastating

Oil won't be targeted just yet.


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## Iron Shrappenel

The Eagle said:


> NAZISM or neo-Nazis


Let's say if someone uses those pro Osama Bin Laden banners that you see seldom flying about in Pakistan... Would that justify an Invasion of a hostile country and God forbid the same events as happening in Ukraine ? If no... Then what point are we trying to achieve here ?

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## Mav3rick

Vapnope said:


> Are you being sarcastic?
> 
> Because Indian did push in West Pakistan and even gained some territory. Americans did everything to blunt Pakistan's capability to defend by stopping the military hardware export to Pakistan.


I am being dead serious. The majority of Americans wanted us to manage the East Pakistan affair with logic and compassion and viewed our actions there to be morally and legally corrupt. The divide between the Government and pro East-Pakistan group was very big, which in some ways limited the actions the administration may have wanted to take to support West Pakistan but the administration still provided military assistance through illicit means. 

You may want to read up on the National Security Archives (US) and other neutral accounts and news of the crisis/war and history of US sanctions on Pakistan since 1965.

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## ghazi52

Wake up India







Change Ukraine with India and Russia with China...he will say the same......................Haha

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## Abid123

Praying that all the Ukranian civilians are safe.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496905770885165064

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496905869983768581

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496906522080731139

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496906903577939970

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496907051578048521

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## The Eagle

Iron Shrappenel said:


> Let's say if someone uses those pro Osama Bin Laden banners that you see seldom flying about in Pakistan... Would that justify an Invasion of a hostile country and God forbid the same events as happening in Ukraine ? If no... Then what point are we trying to achieve here ?



Not that reason alone but there has been activism and volunteers being filmed by none other than Western Sources few days ago. Speaking of banners of Bin Laden doesn't makes sense at all. Have you read Putin's statement about Denazifying the Ukraine? The post was made in same context but apparently you missed that continuation. I will suggest that you can go back and read all the comments to understand that. Not my point but in-fact pointing towards what's being said and then done accordingly.

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## terry5

Ukraine asks Turkey to shut Black Sea waterways to Russian ships​_Ambassador Vasyl Bodnar says Kyiv has called on Ankara to close ‘the airspace, Bosphorus and Dardanelles straits’._




The request puts NATO member Turkey, which shares a maritime border with Ukraine and Russia in the Black Sea and has good relations with both countries, in a difficult position [File: AP Photo]
Published On 24 Feb 202224 Feb 2022



Ukraine has asked Turkey to close the Bosphorus and Dardanelles straits to Russian ships, Kyiv’s ambassador to Ankara has said, as Russia launched air and ground assaults on its neighbour.
The request on Thursday puts NATO member Turkey, which shares a maritime border with Ukraine and Russia in the Black Sea and has good relations with both countries, in a difficult position.


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## ZeEa5KPul

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496905770885165064


I'm really curious to see once and for all what the effect of these "devastating" and "crushing" sanctions from the West will be. The West is in a lot of trouble if they turn out to be a flop; they won't have anything left to threaten anyone with.


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## terry5

Turkish-owned ship hit by bomb off coast of Odessa, no casualties - Turkish authority​Reuters











1 minute read
ANKARA, Feb 24 (Reuters) - A Turkish-owned ship was hit by a bomb off the coast of Ukraine's port city Odessa on Thursday, Turkey's Maritime General Directorate said, adding there were no casualties and the ship was safely en route into Romanian waters.
Russia on Thursday launched a ground and air offensive into Ukraine.
"Upon information that the Marshall Islands-flagged Turkish-owned Yasa Jupiter ship was struck by a bomb off the coast of Odessa, it was learned that the ship has no request for help, is en route to Romanian waters, has no casualties and is safe," the authority said on Twitter.

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## ZeEa5KPul

Iron Shrappenel said:


> Let's say if someone uses those pro Osama Bin Laden banners that you see seldom flying about in Pakistan... Would that justify an Invasion of a hostile country and God forbid the same events as happening in Ukraine ? If no... Then what point are we trying to achieve here ?


Are members of the Pakistani armed forces flying those banners? Are entire battalions using those banners as their insignia? If not, then the situations aren't comparable.

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## Hack-Hook

1ndy said:


> That's why India purchase most weapons from Russia?


as I said if you build a stick yourself , that's better . in case of war with Russia your weapons are less than a stick


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## ghazi52

Ukraine conflict
·
*Russia has seized control of airport near Kyiv, Ukrainian Interior Ministry says*

Russian helicopters have attacked Antonov International Airport, a military airport in Hostomel, near the Ukrainian capital Kyiv, on Thursday, according to Ukrainian officials. 
The Interior Ministry has confirmed that Russian troops have seized control of the airport. Airborne troops were filmed on the ground patrolling the perimeter by a CNN reporter.

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## The SC

The Eagle said:


> Meanwhile....
> View attachment 818273


Well yes..they have tried Qatar, Egypt and others to supplly them more Gas.. but they all have said they were sorry but can't replace the quantity of the Russian supplied Gas to Europe..It is one of the most important cards in the hands of Russia.. and even if the Europeans were not to buy it anymore..Russia very recently has secured a 30 year Natural Gas supply contract with China..

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## Deino

The Eagle said:


> Denazify............. this is exactly why I was looking for some Ukrainian volunteers' training footage with swastika flags. How come someone support a country that hosts Nazi mindset? At-least, Russia was not going to tolerate such thing in the neighbour and interestingly, West/US or Israel had no issue with those groups in Ukraine.
> 
> @RescueRanger




With all due respect, I can only repeat what I wrote today so often since I strongly need to oppose this most simplistic standpoint: Yes, there are Nazis in Ukraine, no-one denies and they have a severe social issue with this. Fact!

However also fact is, that other countries - including France, the USA and Russia itself - have similar tendencies too. As such to condemn a whole country, its society and its government as being Nazi infected or even a Nazi regime shows only a lack in historical understanding or being fallen into a well-laid propaganda trap. 

This is worse, when this is used as an argument for an all-out war against the whole country and not only within/against those occupied regions. AGAIN YES, Nazis are an evil - I know it quite well from my country's own shameful history - but as noted, unfortunately other countries do have the same issues too. Therefore any claims or comparisons, the Ukrainian government is a Nazi regime and all their "outrages" would be comparable to Saddam Hussein, Bin Laden or any other terrorist's crimes is both inappropriate and unjustified here. (Like certain members try to portray here and at the SDF)

Again, I want to make clear that NO-ONE denies there are Nazis in Ukraine but this is not the real reason and even more, never an excuse for that war. 


As a final word, let me add a personnel note: I'm neither pro US or EU nor am I defending their system. In fact I'm opposing the lack of NATO's of understanding towards Russia's security concernsand the fallen promises once made during the negotiations towards my own country‘s reunification since a long time as shameful. In fact in other forums I'm much too often called the understander of Russian and China! But it is my strong believe, that war is not the answer, even lesser when based on lies!

Consequently I never applauded what the US did in other countries and we all know to what terrible consequences such and other lies led in the ME, in Iraq, Iran and Syria …. But again, this is not a reason to advocate or justify this war!

I hope for at least a bit of understanding since in another forum I was right thereafter condemned as a Nazi-supporter or even a Nazi since I am opposing this war and/or since I am a German.

So, lets stay rationale and not too much simple-minded to judge by a single (or even a few more) images posted in the Internet since they support our opinion … the reality is often not that simple. 

Best and take care,
Andreas

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## ghazi52

Biden: US and G7 leaders agreed to move forward on "devastating" sanctions against Russia​From CNN's Kevin Liptak

In a Twitter message, US President Joe Biden says he agreed with fellow G7 leaders "to move forward on devastating packages of sanctions and other economic measures to hold Russia to account."

"We stand with the brave people of Ukraine," he added.

Biden met with the leaders earlier today and is set to speak at 1:30 p.m. ET from the White House on the situation unfolding in Ukraine.


----------



## dBSPL

terry5 said:


> Turkish-owned ship hit by bomb off coast of Odessa, no casualties - Turkish authority​Reuters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1 minute read
> ANKARA, Feb 24 (Reuters) - A Turkish-owned ship was hit by a bomb off the coast of Ukraine's port city Odessa on Thursday, Turkey's Maritime General Directorate said, adding there were no casualties and the ship was safely en route into Romanian waters.
> Russia on Thursday launched a ground and air offensive into Ukraine.
> "Upon information that the Marshall Islands-flagged Turkish-owned Yasa Jupiter ship was struck by a bomb off the coast of Odessa, it was learned that the ship has no request for help, is en route to Romanian waters, has no casualties and is safe," the authority said on Twitter.


Odessa is a city where Turkish trade is intense and many Turkish students continue their education in schools there. Hundreds of Turkish citizens were caught in the middle of the war in Odessa. The state took those who wanted, but it was not made compulsory. A TAF A400M plane had landed in Odessa last night. I'm not sure if cargo planes will be used for the rest.

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## siegecrossbow

ghazi52 said:


> As Russia launches an operation in Ukraine, prompting outrage and sanctions from the US and several other nations in the West, China has indicated that an "independent power" like Russia does not need Beijing's backing for actions in Ukraine, *clarifying that it was not supporting nor condemning Moscow for its actions.*
> 
> "As for the US suggestion that Russia has China's backing to act, I believe Russia will be very unhappy to hear such a statement," Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying told the media during a regular press briefing on Thursday, according to a report by _RT_.
> 
> The state-run Russian broadcaster quoted Chunying as saying that Russia was a permanent member of the UN Security Council and an independent power. Moscow's actions, she added, were based on its own judgement and national interests.
> 
> Relations between China and Russia were based on non-alignment, non-confrontation and non-targeting of third parties, she said, adding that "China is not interested in, and has no intention of following, the Cold War mentality of either friend or foe," according to _RT_.
> 
> ​





siegecrossbow said:


> China would not support this out of principle (helping parts of a sovereign nation secede) but it will not condemn Russia either.


----------



## dexter



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## kingQamaR

ZeEa5KPul said:


> That's nothing unusual. War is an ugly thing and people have a natural and healthy revulsion to it. However, people are also short-sighted and concerned exclusively with their day-to-day lives. They have no conception of the long term strategic threats they face that require decisive action.
> 
> A fascist coup in a neighbouring country with a very highly developed historical nuclear weapons program is a threat that cannot be ignored forever. Putin tried every avenue to make peace and the last straw was Zelensky declaring that Ukraine would seek a nuclear weapon.
> 
> This isn't Iran which has to start a weapons program from scratch, this is a country with a very sophisticated nuclear and missile industry and the experience of producing and stockpiling a very large portion of the Soviet Union's nuclear arsenal.
> 
> Russia is simply responding to an existential threat.


 Ukrainian Pm is Jewish I highly doubt he’d be a fascist? 

You either watch to much RT propaganda or your just a sad loser who disliked anyone from west or Ukraine of there right to do so join do what they want for there country 

Putin doesn't care. His ambition is to regain all those Baltic states which he thinks, and stated in yesterday's broadcast, should be part of the Russian empire. As always, this European war is about land. 

Putin wants to demilitarize a country that has not used weapons against Russia and would never win a war against Russia by itself. Putin is a monster tyrant. And you apologists reason Ukrainians dying now. ’!

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## RescueRanger

Russia has gained control of the entire area around Chernobyl. - Source: AJN

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496877608373424131

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## RescueRanger

kingQamaR said:


> Ukrainian Pm is Jewish I highly doubt he’d be a fascist?
> 
> You either watch to much RT propaganda or your just a sad loser who disliked anyone from west or Ukraine of there right to do so join do what they want for there country



Ukraine has a history of courting fascism.


----------



## Gripen9

Oldman1 said:


> Well hopefully they don't cause the Russians don't have the logistics to sustain this offensive in the long run.


I guess you are ready to fight the Russians till the last Ukrainian?

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## The SC

ZeEa5KPul said:


> I'm really curious to see once and for all what the effect of these "devastating" and "crushing" sanctions from the West will be. The West is in a lot of trouble if they turn out to be a flop; they won't have anything left to threaten anyone with.


They can't come up with worst than CAATSA.. but they will target individuals and some companies,,


----------



## ghazi52

Putin orders attack​In a televised speech at 05:55 Moscow time (02:55 GMT), Mr Putin announced a "military operation" in Ukraine's eastern Donbas region. This area is home to many Russian-speaking Ukrainians. Parts of it has been occupied and run by Russian-backed rebels since 2014.

Mr Putin said Russia was intervening as an act of self-defence. Russia did not want to occupy Ukraine, he said, but would demilitarise and "de-Nazify" the country.

He urged Ukrainian soldiers in the combat zone to lay down their weapons and go home, but said clashes were inevitable and "only a question of time".

And he added that any intervention from outside powers to resist the Russian attack would be met with an "instant" and devastating response.


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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496910952004038666


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## RescueRanger

Russia launches invasion of Ukraine - Putin's troops 'seize control' of Chernobyl nuclear disaster site


Ukraine reported troops pouring across the borders with Russia and Belarus from the north and east, and landing on the coasts from the Black Sea in the southwest and Azov Sea in the southeast.




news.sky.com


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## ghazi52

Russian troops seize Chernobyl nuclear power plant, *Exclusion Zone Management spokesperson says*​From Olga Voitovich in Kyiv 


Russian troops have seized the Chernobyl nuclear power plant, the State Agency of Ukraine on Exclusion Zone Management spokesperson, Yevgeniya Kuznetsovа, tells CNN.

“When I came to the office today in the morning [in Kyiv], it turned out, that the [Chernobyl nuclear power plant] management had left. So there was no one to give instructions or defend," she said.


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## Hack-Hook

MH.Yang said:


> Threatening to use nuclear weapons = inferiority complex?
> 
> If I remember correctly, every time we talk about China's anti-ship ballistic missiles, people from some countries threaten to use nuclear weapons against China.


only people who are irresponsible enough to use Nukes are US of A rulers

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## dBSPL

Ukrainian air defense system radar


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## ghazi52

Trains carrying vulnerable children evacuated from eastern Ukraine will arrive in Lviv on Friday​From Sofiya Harbuziuk

Trains carrying vulnerable children evacuated from eastern Ukraine will arrive in the Lviv region on Friday, a spokesperson for the Lviv State Regional Administration told CNN.

A train from the Luhansk oblast region will carry 41 children age 4 and under, many of them orphans.

Another train is on its way from Donetsk oblast carrying 106 children, and a third is carrying 18 children with disabilities and special needs from Lysychansk in the Luhansk oblast.

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## RescueRanger

What is known so far?​We're 13 hours into the Russian invasion of Ukraine, and developments are arriving thick and fast as troops appear to move towards the capital.

Just before 0300 UTC Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a "special military operation" in Ukraine. Big explosions were heard in Ukraine's Kyiv, Kharkiv, Odessa and other cities as Mr Putin spoke.


Chernobyl has been captured by Russian troops following hours of fighting, the Ukrainian Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal confirmed in the last hour;
The Ukrainian city of Mariupol is under heavy fire, with hundreds of explosions observed by a diplomatic source cited by the Reuters news agency;
Boris Johnson announced a raft of new economic sanctions on Russia, dubbing them "largest set of sanctions ever imposed anywhere by the UK government";
A British Ministry of Defence intelligence update at 4pm said Russian troops based in Belarus were moving towards the capital;
US officials say Russia is attacking Ukraine on three sides, with fears mounting that Moscow could attempt to "decapitate" Kyiv;
Multiple people are reported by Ukrainian authorities to have been killed, including 40 troops, 18 people in Odessa and six people in Brovary.

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## Oldman1

Gripen9 said:


> I guess you are ready to fight the Russians till the last Ukrainian?



If the Afghans can do it, why not?


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## nang2

RescueRanger said:


> Ukraine has a history of courting fascism.


It is more about anti-Russia than courting fascism. I think Ukraine is a classical case of democracy gone wrong. This is a country with two sizeable populations that hate each other. Without making both sides feel safe and protected by the government, democracy only becomes a tool for the majority to oppress the minority, which has a strong backing in a neighboring country. Internal wars also attract external wars.

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## dBSPL

Unfortunately, Russian aircrafts do not distinguish between civilians and soldiers.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496911224260501513

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## Khan vilatey

So if the west puts sanctions on Russia, will India still get the remaining s-400 and newer military equipment from Russia 🇷🇺 

K

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## Xone

Can the US and the west stop Russia from invading Ukraine with sanctions? No chance, the threats, and bullying do not work with Russians. so what are the options available to the Nato and US?


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## That Guy

RescueRanger said:


> Ukraine has a history of courting fascism.


So does Russia, doesn't really justify an invasion.

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## F-22Raptor

President Joe Biden has been presented with a menu of options for the U.S. to carry out massive cyberattacks designed to disrupt Russia’s ability to sustain its military operations in Ukraine, four people familiar with the deliberations tell NBC News.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/na...options-massive-cyberattacks-russia-rcna17558

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496905095769997313


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## RescueRanger

That Guy said:


> So does Russia, doesn't really justify an invasion.



Did I say I support or agree with an invasion of a sovereign nation? And so what if I was, do I not enjoy freedom of expression? Or is that only a privilege if you tow the line?

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## Oldman1

Xone said:


> Can the US and the west stop Russia from invading Ukraine with sanctions? No chance, the threats, and bullying do not work with Russians. so what are the options available to the Nato and US?


Supplying weapons. Question is will Biden keep on doing it.


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## RescueRanger

March in Times Square New York in support of Ukraine:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496906109059158020

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## dBSPL

F-22Raptor said:


> President Joe Biden has been presented with a menu of options for the U.S. to carry out massive cyberattacks designed to disrupt Russia’s ability to sustain its military operations in Ukraine, four people familiar with the deliberations tell NBC News.
> 
> https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/na...options-massive-cyberattacks-russia-rcna17558


The interruption of Russia's internet could produce cataspheric consequences, especially on blockchain networks.

Russian submarines may also 'accidentally' break some cables under the Atlantic.

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## tower9

Oldman1 said:


> The one on the left looks more Russian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But also Russian.


I am sure the one on the right is from some ethnicity from the Caucasus. Russia is a vast country with many ethnic groups.

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## Bleek

Oldman1 said:


> If the Afghans can do it, why not?


Because you aren't Afghans, and that was a completely different dynamic

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496849053824471041

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496809143738507264

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## S.Y.A

Oldman1 said:


> Supplying weapons. Question is will Biden keep on doing it.


didnt do a lot of good to ukrainians. should have simply sent in a a few thousand troops to keep russia from attacking it.


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## That Guy

RescueRanger said:


> Did I say I support or agree with an invasion of a sovereign nation? And so what if I was, do I not enjoy freedom of expression? Or is that only a privilege if you tow the line?


Never said you did, sorry about the insinuation.

Just pointing out that saying Ukraine is full of nazis isn't really worth mentioning, because Europe is full of white people, of course there are nazis.

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## tower9

The Eagle said:


> Don't you think that all those warnings & sanctions were not for an instant implications but till Russia gets done with Ukraine and then they will allegedly boycott. How could they let Russians to do all that and still buying from them but calling for sanctions? Hence, it is proven and reveals that personal interests are above anyone's else problems. A Europe supposedly helping Ukraine cannot live without gas for next few days and had no contingency/alternative plan for switching the supplier despite the fact that they knew or at-least claimed that Russia will invade Ukraine. Speechless.
> 
> Edit: How could everyone expected Russia is not aware of consequences but rushes into Ukraine.


Because the west is literally run by low iq idiots who are full of hubris, do not understand reality and do not understand strategy, self restraint or consequences.


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

kingQamaR said:


> Ukrainian Pm is Jewish I highly doubt he’d be a fascist?


Why would his being Jewish prevent him from being a fascist or sympathizing with Nazi elements in his government? The Ukrainian armed forces are riddled with Nazis, yet he hasn't ordered a purge of them. He seems just fine with it. At the very least, he's tainted by association.

The Snapple bottlecap fact that Zelensky is Jewish has no bearing whatsoever on the nature of the regime he leads. The rest of your _ad hominem_ doesn't merit a response.

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## Iron Shrappenel

The Eagle said:


> Not that reason alone but there has been activism and volunteers being filmed by none other than Western Sources few days ago. Speaking of banners of Bin Laden doesn't makes sense at all. Have you read Putin's statement about Denazifying the Ukraine? The post was made in same context but apparently you missed that continuation. I will suggest that you can go back and read all the comments to understand that. Not my point but in-fact pointing towards what's being said and then done accordingly.


I've read the part that you were trying to point out. It seemed to me that in the continuation of the context, you were trying to justify it as being a justified reason for the invasion of Ukraine.... In that context I could not agree with you hence my post...



The Eagle said:


> Don't you think that all those warnings & sanctions were not for an instant implications but till Russia gets done with Ukraine and then they will allegedly boycott. How could they let Russians to do all that and still buying from them but calling for sanctions? Hence, it is proven and reveals that personal interests are above anyone's else problems. A Europe supposedly helping Ukraine cannot live without gas for next few days and had no contingency/alternative plan for switching the supplier despite the fact that they knew or at-least claimed that Russia will invade Ukraine. Speechless.
> 
> Edit: How could everyone expected Russia is not aware of consequences but rushes into Ukraine.


The Germans offered them Helmets lmao....


----------



## S.Y.A

Oldman1 said:


> If the Afghans can do it, why not?


afghans can survive without food for long periods of time, they can survive in a harsh climate, can traverse rugged landscape without any gear, used guns since they were kids, were motivated by religion etc.

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## ghazi52

UK bans Russian aircraft from its airspace​From CNN's Pete Muntean

The United Kingdom is banning civilian Russian aircraft from its airspace.




> “No aircraft on a scheduled service which is owned, chartered or operated by a person connected with Russia, or which is registered in Russia shall fly in United Kingdom airspace,” reads a bulletin to pilots just published by the UK Department For Transport.




Russian airline Aeroflot currently operates direct flights between Moscow and London-Heathrow and Gatwick, according to its website. 

The bulletin also bans Russian aircraft from the airspace above the United Kingdom's territorial sea. The restriction goes into effect at 7 p.m. EST and is set to expire on May 23.

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## RescueRanger

That Guy said:


> Never said you did, sorry about the insinuation.
> 
> Just pointing out that saying Ukraine is full of nazis isn't really worth mentioning, because Europe is full of white people, of course there are nazis.



It's not really about skin color, politics and ideals are beyond trifling barriers such as skin color and geo-location.


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## Oldman1

S.Y.A said:


> didnt do a lot of good to ukrainians. should have simply sent in a a few thousand troops to keep russia from attacking it.



The goal is to inflict casualties to the point they pull out.


----------



## ghazi52

UK government announces visa concessions for Ukrainian citizens in country​From CNN’s Lauren Kent

British Home Secretary Priti Patel announced visa concessions for Ukrainian citizens in the UK on Thursday. 




> “We stand shoulder to shoulder with Ukraine amid this unprovoked and antidemocratic act of Russian aggression," Patel said in a statement released by her ministry.




“I have immediately ordered changes to our visa policy to provide certainty to our Ukrainian friends and colleagues living, working and studying in the UK,” she added.
According to the statement, changes announced for Ukrainian nationals in the UK include: 

Ukrainian nationals on an existing points-based system route can extend their leave in the UK.
Ukrainian nationals on an existing visitor visa can exceptionally switch into a points-based system immigration route without having to leave the UK.
Ukrainian nationals on an existing visitor visa can apply under the family route for further leave without meeting the immigration status requirement, provided they meet the requirements for leave based on exceptional circumstances.
Ukrainian nationals on an existing seasonal worker visa will have their leave in the UK extended to Dec. 31.
Ukrainian nationals in temporary HGV/pork butcher jobs will have their leave in the UK extended to Dec. 31 and will also be allowed to apply to the skilled worker route.

These concessions are available for people with valid visas in the UK.

All visa routes remain under constant review and any changes to the visa policy will not compromise border security.


----------



## That Guy

RescueRanger said:


> It's not really about skin color, politics and ideals are beyond trifling barriers such as skin color and geo-location.


True, but that's fascism in general, but if we're talking about neo-nazis every European country has them, including Russia.

Even Pakistan has fascists, so you're correct in that regard.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496910703944470530

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## S.Y.A

ZeEa5KPul said:


> The Ukrainian armed forces are riddled with Nazis, yet he hasn't ordered a purge of them.


what sort of nazis? anti communists? anti russians? right wing people? or just people who use nazi paraphernalia but arent really a part of them? to the western liberals anyone not agreeing with them is a nazi, and to the western conservatives anyone not agreeing with them is a commie.

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## dBSPL

S.Y.A said:


> afghans can survive without food for long periods of time, they can survive in a harsh climate, can traverse rugged landscape without any gear, used guns since they were kids, were motivated by religion etc.


Parts of Europe hosted some of the most brutal wars the world has ever seen.

It's not about religion, not race or climate. By nature, humans are perfect creatures to adapt to any conditions.

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## ghazi52

(CNN)

As of Thursday evening Moscow time, at least 850 people have already been detained in at least 44 cities across Russia, independent monitoring group OVD-Info reported. 

Russia bars demonstrations without a permit, but Russians may stage individual, single-person protests.

Authorities on Thursday warned citizens that participating in anti-war protests could lead to prosecution and criminal charges.


----------



## Oldman1

Bleek said:


> Because you aren't Afghans, and that was a completely different dynamic



Not everyone is an Afghan. What about the Vietnamese? Or some others that have resisted? The U.S. resisted against the British Empire twice. Most powerful at the time.

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496531876491710471

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## Trango Towers

Antaniv Airport 25 miles outside Kiev has been seized by Russian airborne troops.

Seriously Ukrainians can they fight at all?

Now another one under attack 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496834953052573698


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## ZeEa5KPul

Deino said:


> With all due respect, I can only repeat what I wrote today so often since I strongly need to oppose this most simplistic standpoint: Yes, there are Nazis in Ukraine, no-one denies and they have a severe social issue with this. Fact!
> 
> However also fact is, that other countries - including France, the USA and Russia itself - have similar tendencies too. As such to condemn a whole country, its society and its government as being Nazi infected or even a Nazi regime shows only a lack in historical understanding or being fallen into a well-laid propaganda trap.
> 
> This is worse, when this is used as an argument for an all-out war against the whole country and not only within/against those occupied regions. AGAIN YES, Nazis are an evil - I know it quite well from my country's own shameful history - but as noted, unfortunately other countries do have the same issues too. Therefore any claims or comparisons, the Ukrainian government is a Nazi regime and all their "outrages" would be comparable to Saddam Hussein, Bin Laden or any other terrorist's crimes is both inappropriate and unjustified here. (Like certain members try to portray here and at the SDF)
> 
> Again, I want to make clear that NO-ONE denies there are Nazis in Ukraine but this is not the real reason and even more, never an excuse for that war.
> 
> 
> As a final word, let me add a personnel note: I'm neither pro US or EU nor am I defending their system. In fact I'm opposing the lack of NATO's of understanding towards Russia's security concernsand the fallen promises once made during the negotiations towards my own country‘s reunification since a long time as shameful. In fact in other forums I'm much too often called the understander of Russian and China! But it is my strong believe, that war is not the answer, even lesser when based on lies!
> 
> Consequently I never applauded what the US did in other countries and we all know to what terrible consequences such and other lies led in the ME, in Iraq, Iran and Syria …. But again, this is not a reason to advocate or justify this war!
> 
> I hope for at least a bit of understanding since in another forum I was right thereafter condemned as a Nazi-supporter or even a Nazi since I am opposing this war and/or since I am a German.
> 
> So, lets stay rationale and not too much simple-minded to judge by a single (or even a few more) images posted in the Internet since they support our opinion … the reality is often not that simple.
> 
> Best and take care,
> Andreas


Have Nazis infiltrated the Ukrainian government? Yes or no.

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## S.Y.A

Oldman1 said:


> The goal is to inflict casualties to the point they pull out.


not going to happen if the ukrainian army retreats and collapses like armenian or afghan one

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## ZeEa5KPul

S.Y.A said:


> what sort of nazis? anti communists? anti russians? right wing people? or just people who use nazi paraphernalia but arent really a part of them? to the western liberals anyone not agreeing with them is a nazi, and to the western conservatives anyone not agreeing with them is a commie.


When I see a Ukrainian soldier wearing "SS" on his arm patch, my Spidey sense tells me that's a Nazi.


----------



## S.Y.A

dBSPL said:


> Parts of Europe hosted some of the most brutal wars the world has ever seen.
> 
> It's not about religion, not race or climate. By nature, humans are perfect creatures to adapt to any conditions


not those who havent faced adversity in life, and have become addicted to a sedentary lifestyle, and social media and internet.

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## khail007

Scorpio_26 said:


> Damn!!
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496876163553243138



Dear, it is horrible, it is giving me goosebumps, could not imagine the destruction these things will cause where they will land. It seems to be the only part of the firepower on the battlefield.
ALLAH SWT save all of us who are pretending as keyboard warriors/generals and have never seen the brutality of battlefields in our lives.

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## That Guy

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Have Nazis infiltrated the Ukrainian government? Yes or no.


You're talking about a majority white nation, nazis have infiltrated every European nation, including Russia.


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## Oldman1

Trango Towers said:


> Antaniv Airport 25 miles outside Kiev has been seized by Russian airborne troops.
> 
> Seriously Ukrainians can they fight at all?
> 
> Now another one under attack
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496834953052573698


Look on twitter, more videos of dead or captured Russians.


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## S.Y.A

ZeEa5KPul said:


> When I see a Ukrainian soldier wearing "SS" on his arm patch, my Spidey sense tells me that's a Nazi.


so a simple patch is enough to accuse a person of nazism?

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## RescueRanger

ghazi52 said:


> UK government announces visa concessions for Ukrainian citizens in country​From CNN’s Lauren Kent
> 
> British Home Secretary Priti Patel announced visa concessions for Ukrainian citizens in the UK on Thursday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “I have immediately ordered changes to our visa policy to provide certainty to our Ukrainian friends and colleagues living, working and studying in the UK,” she added.
> According to the statement, changes announced for Ukrainian nationals in the UK include:
> 
> Ukrainian nationals on an existing points-based system route can extend their leave in the UK.
> Ukrainian nationals on an existing visitor visa can exceptionally switch into a points-based system immigration route without having to leave the UK.
> Ukrainian nationals on an existing visitor visa can apply under the family route for further leave without meeting the immigration status requirement, provided they meet the requirements for leave based on exceptional circumstances.
> Ukrainian nationals on an existing seasonal worker visa will have their leave in the UK extended to Dec. 31.
> Ukrainian nationals in temporary HGV/pork butcher jobs will have their leave in the UK extended to Dec. 31 and will also be allowed to apply to the skilled worker route.
> 
> These concessions are available for people with valid visas in the UK.
> 
> All visa routes remain under constant review and any changes to the visa policy will not compromise border security.



I read this and laugh, because British citizens are having trouble leaving with passports, and these people expect people to apply for visa's and travel during what is effectively a war?









Scots man trapped in Ukraine speaks of ordeal as travel issues hinder escape


Sean Cusick from Glasgow says he, his wife and two-year-old son are are stranded in Eastern Ukraine with 'no money' for food or rent and no means of escape due to travel document issues.




www.dailyrecord.co.uk

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## ZeEa5KPul

That Guy said:


> You're talking about a majority white nation, nazis have infiltrated every European nation, including Russia.


Prove it. I'll accept the same standard of proof I have on Ukraine - show me the equivalent of the Azov Battalion in the Russian military. A battalion of Russian soldiers using Nazi insignia.


----------



## Oldman1

S.Y.A said:


> not going to happen if the ukrainian army retreats and collapses like armenian or afghan one


When you face against an onslaught, you should be retreating and hide. Remember how the Taliban lost Afghanistan in short amount of time in the start of the invasion? They retreat and hide in the mountains or neighbor Pakistan.


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

S.Y.A said:


> so a simple patch is enough to accuse a person of nazism?


A patch that says "SS", yeah.


----------



## ghazi52

Biden will speak on Russia's attack on Ukraine​As the US assess Russia's invasion of Ukraine, President Joe Biden will address the nation soon.

The US and the world have not seen a “conventional move like this, nation state to nation state, since World War II” a senior defense official had told reporters earlier on Thursday. “Certainly nothing on this size and scope and scale."

Biden “will deliver remarks on Russia’s unprovoked and unjustified attack on Ukraine,” the White House said in its daily guidance.

In a Twitter message published earlier today, Biden said he agreed with fellow G7 leaders "to move forward on devastating packages of sanctions and other economic measures to hold Russia to account."


----------



## Gripen9

Deino said:


> With all due respect, I can only repeat what I wrote today so often since I strongly need to oppose this most simplistic standpoint: Yes, there are Nazis in Ukraine, no-one denies and they have a severe social issue with this. Fact!
> 
> However also fact is, that other countries - including France, the USA and Russia itself - have similar tendencies too. As such to condemn a whole country, its society and its government as being Nazi infected or even a Nazi regime shows only a lack in historical understanding or being fallen into a well-laid propaganda trap.
> 
> This is worse, when this is used as an argument for an all-out war against the whole country and not only within/against those occupied regions. AGAIN YES, Nazis are an evil - I know it quite well from my country's own shameful history - but as noted, unfortunately other countries do have the same issues too. Therefore any claims or comparisons, the Ukrainian government is a Nazi regime and all their "outrages" would be comparable to Saddam Hussein, Bin Laden or any other terrorist's crimes is both inappropriate and unjustified here. (Like certain members try to portray here and at the SDF)
> 
> Again, I want to make clear that NO-ONE denies there are Nazis in Ukraine but this is not the real reason and even more, never an excuse for that war.
> 
> 
> As a final word, let me add a personnel note: I'm neither pro US or EU nor am I defending their system. In fact I'm opposing the lack of NATO's of understanding towards Russia's security concernsand the fallen promises once made during the negotiations towards my own country‘s reunification since a long time as shameful. In fact in other forums I'm much too often called the understander of Russian and China! But it is my strong believe, that war is not the answer, even lesser when based on lies!
> 
> Consequently I never applauded what the US did in other countries and we all know to what terrible consequences such and other lies led in the ME, in Iraq, Iran and Syria …. But again, this is not a reason to advocate or justify this war!
> 
> I hope for at least a bit of understanding since in another forum I was right thereafter condemned as a Nazi-supporter or even a Nazi since I am opposing this war and/or since I am a German.
> 
> So, lets stay rationale and not too much simple-minded to judge by a single (or even a few more) images posted in the Internet since they support our opinion … the reality is often not that simple.
> 
> Best and take care,
> Andreas


Yes the whole Nazi angle is a red herring / canard used by Putin to gin up support inside the Russian populace. Ukraine has a white supremist issue but so does Hungary and Bulgaria 10x more. And both are now part of EU. We saw how they handled the immigrant issue a few years back.
I am just curious at the timing of the whole event. Why now? Was Ukraine at the cusp of being admitted to NATO/EU?


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496915836409466880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496916676041916424


----------



## dBSPL

The sanctions package on the table:


Interruption of internet access in Russia
Cutting electrical lines to EU
Replacing railway shears
Exclusion of Russia from the swift system
Cancellation of licenses of companies affiliated with Russia
Blocking of offshore assets
Freight prices will go crazy

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## Oldman1

ZeEa5KPul said:


> A patch that says "SS", yeah.











'Russia for Russians,' chant thousands of neo-Nazis in Moscow march


Thousands of far-right nationalists and neo-Nazis marched through Moscow on Friday to call for ethnic Russians to "take back" Russia, as resentment grows over dark-complexioned Muslim migrants from Russia's Caucasus and the money the Kremlin sends to those restive regions.




www.thestar.com





'Russia for Russians,' chant thousands of neo-Nazis in Moscow march​Thousands of far-right nationalists and neo-Nazis marched through Moscow on Friday to call for ethnic Russians to "take back" Russia, as resentment grows over dark-complexioned Muslim migrants from Russia's Caucasus and the money the Kremlin sends to those restive regions.​

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## S.Y.A

dBSPL said:


> Parts of Europe hosted some of the most brutal wars the world has ever seen.


btw, those times are long gone. the last fierce war was the bosnian-serb-croatian threeway


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496917815391047684


----------



## ghazi52

Ukrainian Ambassador to the United States Oksana Markarova said Thursday that “all Ukrainians” will fight to protect their country in the face of a Russian invasion.

“The combat spirit of Ukrainian military is high,” Markarova said at a press conference in Washington, DC.








“We are fighting. We will be fighting. We, not only our brave and motivated military, but all Ukrainians, we are protecting our homes and we will not stop,” she said. 

Markarova expressed thanks to US President Joe Biden “for the immediate statement which came minutes after (Russian President Vladimir) Putin’s decision to go on this offensive,” as well as other allies “who issued statements in support of Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity.”

“We value all the support. We hear all the support. It's very important for us,” she said. “But it's also time to act. And we call on the international community to act immediately.”

Asked by CNN whether she believed Russian President Vladimir Putin would have been deterred if the US had imposed stronger sanctions earlier, Markarova said, “we are where we are ...

so let's focus on the sanctions that the United States and other countries will impose right now.”
“This is what matters,” she said. “The actual deeds that we all together will do now is what matters.”

\\

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## Gripen9

Oldman1 said:


> If the Afghans can do it, why not?


Ukrianians are not Afghans. The latter have been fighting the invaders since the time of Alexander.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496916804777787395

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496915815437905924


----------



## RescueRanger

S.Y.A said:


> so a simple patch is enough to accuse a person of nazism?


If the patch belongs to that of the Waffen SS (men who literally boiled women and children to death) then yes, very much yes, they are inspired by Nazi's. But then again as others have mentioned, Nazism is a ideal similar to the ideal of Anarchism proposed by Kropotkin. 
​


----------



## alimobin memon

18 il78 heading towards kiev


----------



## ghazi52

European Union wants to target Moscow leadership with further sanctions​
From CNN's Niamh Kennedy in London and James Frater in Lviv

The European Union wants to "hit" the Moscow leadership with its package of further sanctions regardless of whether SWIFT is included, according to a senior EU diplomat. 

Earlier on Thursday, CNN reported that the bloc was undecided as to whether to cut Russia off from SWIFT, a high-security payment network that connects thousands of financial institutions around the world.

The diplomat told journalists in a briefing that the combination of Tuesday's package alongside the fresh package due to come into effect from Friday, will be "really concentrated to hit the leadership in Moscow and those around Mr. Putin and profiting from this war.”

EU leaders are expected to discuss these sanctions during an emergency summit in Brussels on Thursday evening. 

The diplomat told CNN that they expected "leaders to focus on sharing their thoughts and political positions on the big things and not on discussing in details certain measures.”


----------



## Oldman1

Gripen9 said:


> Ukrianians are not Afghans. The latter have been fighting the invaders since the time of Alexander.


Apparently not, only the Afghans can resist. Not anyone else.....

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## ZeEa5KPul

Gripen9 said:


> Yes the whole Nazi angle is a red herring / canard used by Putin to gin up support inside the Russian populace. Ukraine has a white supremist issue but so does Hungary and Bulgaria 10x more. And both are now part of EU. We saw how they handled the immigrant issue a few years back.
> I am just curious at the timing of the whole event. Why now? Was Ukraine at the cusp of being admitted to NATO/EU?


The red herring is equivocating between neo-Nazi groups in the general population (there are people like that everywhere) vs. Nazis *in the government and armed forces*. If Hungarian and Bulgarian soldiers walk around with SS insignia, please feel free to link such images.

Or are they "moderate" Nazis?


----------



## ghazi52

*Things continue to move fast as Russian forces launch a full-scale assault on Ukraine. Here's the latest from on the ground:*


There is fighting on the outskirts of the Ukrainian capital, Kyiv, as government forces try to recapture an airbase and airport after Russian airborne troops took control of it
Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky has vowed that they will re-take the airport and push back Russian troops
The port city of Mariupol is under heavy fire with reports of hundreds of explosions
The UN High Commissioner for Refugees tells the BBC he estimates that more than 100,000 people have already left their homes in Ukraine, with thousands crossing into Moldova and Romania
Russian police have detained more than 700 people at anti-war protests across Russia, an independent monitor says
There has been fierce fighting around the site of the former nuclear power plant in Chernobyl, with Russian forces capturing it
UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson has outlined more sanctions against Russia, including all major Russian banks facing a full UK asset freeze and a list of oligarchs being sanctioned


----------



## Messerschmitt




----------



## That Guy

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Prove it. I'll accept the same standard of proof I have on Ukraine - show me the equivalent of the Azov Battalion in the Russian military. A battalion of Russian soldiers using Nazi insignia.


Way to suddenly move the goal post.


----------



## Solidify

Russian Invasion Update February 24 2022


----------



## That Guy

Oldman1 said:


> 'Russia for Russians,' chant thousands of neo-Nazis in Moscow march
> 
> 
> Thousands of far-right nationalists and neo-Nazis marched through Moscow on Friday to call for ethnic Russians to "take back" Russia, as resentment grows over dark-complexioned Muslim migrants from Russia's Caucasus and the money the Kremlin sends to those restive regions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thestar.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Russia for Russians,' chant thousands of neo-Nazis in Moscow march​Thousands of far-right nationalists and neo-Nazis marched through Moscow on Friday to call for ethnic Russians to "take back" Russia, as resentment grows over dark-complexioned Muslim migrants from Russia's Caucasus and the money the Kremlin sends to those restive regions.​


Watch him move the goal post again.

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## RescueRanger

IK headed back to Islamabad after his meeting with Putin, some could say the timing could have been better!

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## dBSPL

A400M transport aircraft fleet of the Turkish Air Force is on its way to Kiev.


----------



## ghazi52

NOW: Biden speaks on Russia's attack on Ukraine​US President Joe Biden is addressing the nation from the White House as his administration assesses Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Biden “will deliver remarks on Russia’s unprovoked and unjustified attack on Ukraine,” the White House said in its daily guidance.

In a Twitter message published earlier today, Biden said he agreed with fellow G7 leaders "to move forward on devastating packages of sanctions and other economic measures to hold Russia to account."

The US and the world have not seen a “conventional move like this, nation state to nation state, since World War II” a senior defense official had told reporters earlier on Thursday. “Certainly nothing on this size and scope and scale."


----------



## S.Y.A

RescueRanger said:


> If the patch belongs to that of the Waffen SS (men who literally boiled women and children to death) then yes, very much yes, they are inspired by Nazi's. But then again as others have mentioned, Nazism is a ideal similar to the ideal of Anarchism proposed by Kropotkin.
> ​


inspired by the ideal maybe, but *maybe* not by the boiling stuff. and yes i agree with the nazism being an ideal analysis.


----------



## RescueRanger

Oldman1 said:


> Apparently not, only the Afghans can resist. Not anyone else.....


Hahah


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496918766562603008


----------



## RescueRanger

Biden is speaking on CNN

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## ghazi52

Arrests at anti-war protests in Russia​






At least 735 people have been arrested at anti-war protests across Russia today following the invasion of Ukraine, an independent monitor says.

Demonstrators were detained in 40 cities, according to OVD-Info, which tracks arrests at opposition rallies.

More than 330 people have been detained in Moscow, it says.

Images have emerged of Russian police detaining protesters at an anti-war protest taking place in central Moscow's Pushkinskaya Square.






An image taken by an AFP photographer at the scene shows officers detaining a man holding a placard which reads: "No to war with Ukraine! Putin to resign".



AFP

Other images show officers blocking-off the square. A Guardian reporter at the scene said on Twitter that there is a "very heavy police presence" in the area.


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

That Guy said:


> Way to suddenly move the goal post.


No, that's the standard of proof I hold for considering the Ukrainian government at least infiltrated with Nazi sympathizers. If similar proof can be provided for other governments, I will accuse them of the same.


----------



## dBSPL

*BREAKING :Western Officials: We expect Kiev to fall within hours: (Bloomberg)

"The majority of Ukrainian air defense systems are out of order."


A large number of military cargo planes from Turkey set out for Kiev.*


----------



## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Now some folks might understand why defense capabilities of all sorts are necessary, even if it means eating grass....

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## RescueRanger

ZeEa5KPul said:


> No, that's the standard of proof I hold for considering the Ukrainian government at least infiltrated with Nazi sympathizers. If similar proof can be provided for other governments, I will accuse them of the same.



I would say lets accept that there ideals can permeate beyond borders, lets move on and discuss the actual conflict, the history of which is far too complex to dissect here with the little time we have .

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## ghazi52




----------



## Gripen9

ZeEa5KPul said:


> The red herring is equivocating between neo-Nazi groups in the general population (there are people like that everywhere) vs. Nazis *in the government and armed forces*. If Hungarian and Bulgarian soldiers walk around with SS insignia, please feel free to link such images.
> 
> Or are they "moderate" Nazis?


So is the criteria only when soldiers wear the SS band? Have you heard what the Hungarian president said about minorities esp. non white?

And you misunderstand my post, the invasion is not because there are Nazi elements in Ukrainian gov/military it is more strategic to secure Russian flank. Even Russian military / populace has a white supremacists' problem.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496919411302797316
The Kiev campaign is said to have begun


----------



## ghazi52

"Putin chose this war," Biden says about Ukraine attack​






US President Biden said Russian President Vladimir Putin bears full responsibility for attacking Ukraine and said Russia will face the consequences because of it.




> "Putin is the aggressor. Putin chose this war. And now he and his country will bear the consequences," Biden said in remarks at the White House.




Biden is now announcing additional sanctions on Russia.


----------



## Gripen9

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 818297
> 
> 
> IK headed back to Islamabad after his meeting with Putin, some could say the timing could have been better!


But IK had no advance notification of what was going to happen?
The high profile visit had been arranged months in advance. Had IK delayed or cancelled in the face of tensions, Russia would not have taken kindly to it. But yes, the visit got sidelined due to the invasion.

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## ghazi52

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496882891401351174


----------



## Oldman1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496919416159846403


----------



## dBSPL

Russia screwed. Even If you wanna sell the whole Ukraine, it won't be worth that much.

I still don't understand how Putin made such a mistake.

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## RescueRanger

Gripen9 said:


> But IK had no advance notification of what was going to happen?
> The high profile visit had been arranged months in advance. Had IK delayed or cancelled in the face of tensions, Russia would not have taken kindly to it. But yes, the visit got sidelined due to the invasion.


Don't be so Naive.

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## Gripen9

RescueRanger said:


> Don't be so Naive.


So what should IK had done? Enlighten us (or atleast me).

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## Oublious

dBSPL said:


> Russia screwed. Even If you wanna sell the whole Ukraine, it won't be worth that much.
> 
> I still don't understand how Putin made such a mistake.




TB2 is turning in to babayagaaaa...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496811507258122242
another TB2 adventure....

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## RescueRanger

I'm sorry but the local Paan wala bahi has more presence and charisma when compared to Biden.

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## Meengla

ZeEa5KPul said:


> What is the deal with people who think like this? Does he think that if he repeats this enough that NATO will go to war against Russia? They've already made clear, _publicly, repeatedly_ that they're not going to war on Ukraine's behalf. How can someone who purports to be a president be this naive and simple-minded?
> 
> I don't know if this is ever going to end. Stupid, gullible people the world over are dragging their countries into suicidal confrontations and then screaming "Where's America/NATO/the EU?" when they get their clocks cleaned.



True. This blackmailing the world by bringing in Chernobyl is one more very cheap tactic by the Ukrainian President to try to get the Western countries involved. Well, a blow up of Chernobyl won't be good for Russia either. 

I am still not taking sides here except conceding that Russia was forced to take a step which Russia didn't want to, after so many years of hesitation. If left alone, Russia would organically join the rest of Europe--perhaps even in Putin's rule. Russians want to look West. Not South. Not East. But Russia was provoked. Lest we be hypocritical about 'sovereign rights', how about a sovereign Cuba allowing the Soviet missiles on its soil in the 1960s?? Cuba didn't even have a land border with America and wasn't culturally similar to America as Ukraine is to Russia--meaning a hostile Ukraine would be an even bigger slap on Russia. 

The Ukrainian govt is like all those of the 3rd world countries govt. Get puffed up by constant media support, by arms supplied, but 'assurances' given but their leaderships fail to see that it is their OWN citizens who would die in a war while the supporters would provide 'support' from a distance. Cheap wars for some nations. Find a Karzai or a Zelensky.

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## Foinikas

S.Y.A said:


> so a simple patch is enough to accuse a person of nazism?


How's this? 

























Croatian volunteers with Ustashe flag

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## dBSPL

Russia's most important bank VTB will go bankrupt. One of the main focus of sanctions

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## Oldman1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496919416159846403


Oublious said:


> TB2 is turning in to babayagaaaa...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496811507258122242
> another TB2 adventure....



Can't post it, PDF is banning graphic footage. Have to be something else.


----------



## RescueRanger

Oublious said:


> TB2 is turning in to babayagaaaa...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496811507258122242
> another TB2 adventure....



Putin is honestly acting like a player who has spent too many turns on Civilization III and decided "F it, i'm going full Retard".

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## dBSPL

Intelligence official: Russia has complete air sovereignty over Ukraine.

The army leg of the Kiev operation could begin at any time.

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## ZeEa5KPul

Oublious said:


> TB2 is turning in to babayagaaaa...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496811507258122242
> another TB2 adventure....


Where's the proof that this is: 1) Russian equipment. 2) Shot with a Turkish drone? Ukraine uses very similar equipment to Russia.

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## RescueRanger

Oldman1 said:


> Can't post it, PDF is banning graphic footage. Have to be something else.


PDF is not banning anything, it is literally rule no.2 on the website:



Forum Rules



Right there!!! ^

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## Oublious

Oldman1 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496919416159846403
> 
> Can't post it, PDF is banning graphic footage. Have to be something else.




Yes, but video will not open. It goes to twitter site so should not be a problem.


----------



## RescueRanger

*Biden:* "Sanctions won't stop Putin"
*Reporter: *" Mr. President you said sanctions won't stop Putin, what will?
*Biden:* " I never said sanctions wont stop Putin!"

*This man is a disaster for the US! *

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## ZeEa5KPul

Oldman1 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496919416159846403
> 
> Can't post it, PDF is banning graphic footage. Have to be something else.


Russia now has complete air dominance over Ukraine, but you can keep posting your sunflower seed woman.

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## Oldman1

RescueRanger said:


> PDF is not banning anything, it is literally rule no.2 on the website:
> 
> 
> 
> Forum Rules
> 
> 
> 
> Right there!!! ^


*Sharing explicit / graphic content*

Any material showing gore/after effects of violence/ graphic things or adult material (pornography) is strictly not allowed on PDF. Please, share only images / content which is considered safe for work (SFW) as a general guideline. Members violating this rule will get permanent ban.

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## arjunk

USAF Tanker among several others near Ukraine. Originally took off from near London.


----------



## JonAsad

The indian reporter at the end of Biden speech, such a cringe as always..

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## RescueRanger

Oldman1 said:


> *Sharing explicit / graphic content*
> 
> Any material showing gore/after effects of violence/ graphic things or adult material (pornography) is strictly not allowed on PDF. Please, share only images / content which is considered safe for work (SFW) as a general guideline. Members violating this rule will get permanent ban.



Yes and that is why I shared the link to the rules, I helped draft them many years ago when PDF was in its infancy so you don't need to share them with me .


----------



## Oldman1

Oublious said:


> Yes, but video will not open. It goes to twitter site so should not be a problem.


Ah ok. So you can post it like that.


----------



## RescueRanger

JonAsad said:


> The indian reporter at the end of Biden speech, such a cringe as always..


I know right, made me laugh how his question was batted away.

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## That Guy

dBSPL said:


> Russia screwed. Even If you wanna sell the whole Ukraine, it won't be worth that much.
> 
> I still don't understand how Putin made such a mistake.


It's a military victory, but a geostrategic blunder.

Don't want NATO on your border? Well, now you're guaranteed gonna have NATO on your border, because suddenly, Russia's European neighbours are very nervous.

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## dBSPL

Russia first day losses (Ukraine Claim)

➖ 7 Aircraft
➖ 7 Helicopters
➖ 24 Tanks
➖ 20 Armored Vehicles


(The loss of Ukraine, on the other hand, probably larger than that, especially its air defense capacity was largely neutralized.)

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## RescueRanger

OSCE will temporarily evacuate all its staff from Ukraine​


----------



## Foinikas

Russians claim they shot down 4 Bayraktar so far.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496925957621370925


----------



## khail007

Oldman1 said:


> So if you parachuted 82nd Airborne on an airport near the capitol of a country on first day, you believe its all over?



From Bush's POV, 'mission accomplished. Our belief does not matter.


----------



## Oldman1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496915576761257984


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

That Guy said:


> It's a military victory, but a geostrategic blunder.
> 
> Don't want NATO on your border? Well, now you're guaranteed gonna have NATO on your border, because suddenly, Russia's European neighbours are very nervous.


That's a completely misguided view. Sometimes you're backed into a geopolitical corner and you have no choice but to fight out of it. The "blunder" was the USSR adopting a defective socio-economic system and not being able to maintain the gains they made in WWII. Putin is just trying to clean up this historic mess.

Russia doesn't want NATO on its border, but it doesn't have a choice in the matter. There's no amount of "nice" Russia can be that will cause NATO to move away from the border. Yeltsin was a Western stooge yet NATO still expanded. Self-defense is never a blunder.

Russia is going to get NATO on its border no matter what it does. The best it can do is strengthen its position as much as it can.

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## Mujahid Memon

"We phul sapport saar. Plij humko yahan se nikaalo"

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496925642520088588

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496926905597054976

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## That Guy

ZeEa5KPul said:


> That's a completely misguided view. Sometimes you're backed into a geopolitical corner and you have no choice but to fight out of it. The "blunder" was the USSR adopting a defective socio-economic system and not being able to maintain the gains they made in WWII. Putin is just trying to clean up this historic mess.
> 
> Russia doesn't want NATO on its border, but it doesn't have a choice in the matter. There's no amount of "nice" Russia can be that will cause NATO to move away from the border. Yeltsin was a Western stooge yet NATO still expanded. Self-defense is never a blunder.
> 
> Russia is going to get NATO on its border no matter what it does. The best it can do is strengthen its position as much as it can.


By completely having it's economy destroyed. Yup.

Russia should have stopped at the rebel held areas, and called it a day. No one would have cared, and sanctions wouldn't have been so severe.


----------



## Enigma SIG

A bit of foreshadowing from the senile leader of the self proclaimed police state.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496914832905293841

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## RescueRanger

Russian Air Force Antonov took off from Armenia


----------



## dBSPL

2 TAF cargo aircraft are in Ukraine, 2 aircraft are on the way. There will likely be an another another evac.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496924371260166147


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496927712312803329


----------



## Falcon29

It's ridiculous how easily superpowers can take out a nation's air defense systems. There does not seem to be any counter. Strong air force, navy, and nuclear weapons seem to be much more important than air defense. 

US can likely take out Iranian air defense systems in such rapid duration too. However, Iran has advantage of large landmass and difficult terrain. Plus ability to strike back with missiles. No wonder Iran investing more in BM tech rather than procuring air defense systems.


----------



## dBSPL

doorstar said:


> dunno what that means but 5 Russian helicopter losses turn out to be 1 Ukranian halicopter and 4 turkish drones.
> 
> 11 air airfields
> 3 command posts
> 1 naval base
> 18 radar stations of the S-300 and Buk-M1
> 1 combat helicopter
> 4 Bayraktar TB-2 combat drones


*Ukranian drones (Both the ownership and operation of the TB2s belong to the Ukrainian army.)


----------



## RescueRanger

Falcon29 said:


> It's ridiculous how easily superpowers can take out a nation's air defense systems. There does not seem to be any counter. Strong air force, navy, and nuclear weapons seem to be much more important than air defense.
> 
> US can likely take out Iranian air defense systems in such rapid duration too. However, Iran has advantage of large landmass and difficult terrain. Plus ability to strike back with missiles. No wonder Iran investing more in BM tech rather than procuring air defense systems.


Ukraine had 143 serviceable fighter aircraft in it's air force, Russia deployed over 900.

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## Bleek

RescueRanger said:


> Ukraine had 143 serviceable fighter aircraft in it's air force, Russia deployed over 900.


Has there been any aerial encounters so far?


----------



## Indus Pakistan

Oldman1 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496915576761257984


Million people march, London 2003 to try and stop Iraq War. 


Sunday, 16 February, 2003, 04:10 GMT 
*'Million' march against Iraq war*




__





BBC NEWS | UK | 'Million' march against Iraq war






news.bbc.co.uk















*Q: *did it stop Blair from attacking Iraq?

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## RescueRanger

Bleek said:


> Has there been any aerial encounters so far?


There was a video posted of a dogfight.

*Update: *Russian Antonov Aircraft has crashed in Russian territory killing the crew.


----------



## Oldman1

Indus Pakistan said:


> Million people march, London 2003 to try and stop Iraq War.
> 
> 
> Sunday, 16 February, 2003, 04:10 GMT
> *'Million' march against Iraq war*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBC NEWS | UK | 'Million' march against Iraq war
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.bbc.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 818314
> 
> 
> View attachment 818315
> 
> 
> *Q: *did it stop Blair from attacking Iraq?


Nope and thats whats worrying.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496929166029115393

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## Oldman1

RescueRanger said:


> There was a video posted of a dogfight.
> 
> *Update: *Russian Antonov Aircraft has crashed in Russian territory killing the crew.


Where?


----------



## dBSPL

RescueRanger said:


> Ukraine had 143 serviceable fighter aircraft in it's air force, Russia deployed over 900.


As far as I know, they could not even make the jets to fully operational that the Russians cut in to piece and returned . I think 143 is just a number on paper.

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## RescueRanger

Oldman1 said:


> Where?


Trying to find out.


----------



## Enigma SIG

RescueRanger said:


> Ukraine had 143 serviceable fighter aircraft in it's air force, Russia deployed over 900.


Russia has air superiority at the moment. Videos of multiple aircraft flying in formation on twitter.


----------



## Falcon29

RescueRanger said:


> Ukraine had 143 serviceable fighter aircraft in it's air force, Russia deployed over 900.


Russia deployed 900 aircraft? I believe you, but do you have a source? It appears like Ukrainian AF wasn't that active. My point is superpowers can employ cruise or ballistic missiles to take out aerial defense systems in rapid fashion and even regional powers cannot counter that. Who knows what kind of jamming/electronic warfare techniques employed too. It seems to come down to offensive power. Best defense is offense indeed. Which is why nation's with high missile capabilities or air force capabilities are able to assert their will. Except potentially against superpowers.


----------



## RescueRanger

*Update:* Russian Airforce Antonov AN-26 military transport in the Voronezh region.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496927215778516996

US to deploy additional 7,000 troops to Europe


----------



## Gripen9

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496927215778516996
> 
> US to deploy additional 7,000 troops to Europe


Where in europe?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496927402450046983


----------



## dBSPL

Subways have become shelters. The mass of people... Ukrainians will unfortunately never forget this.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496930061454385155

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## The SC

Gripen9 said:


> Where in europe?


Germany..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496926966481620993


----------



## Enigma SIG

Oldman1 said:


> Nope and thats whats worrying.


Why the virtue signalling then? The west kills maims and rapes all over the globe unimpeded. Admit it, the west only cares because this is happening in Europe. Were this in the Middle east / Pakistan the west would have cheered on.
Putin is a madman but the West are tree-huggers? Western mainstream media should spare the world their crap.

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## RescueRanger

Falcon29 said:


> ut do you have a source? It appears like Ukrainian AF wasn't that active. My point is superpowers can employ cruise or ballistic missiles to take out aerial defense systems in rapid fashion and even regional powers cannot counter that. Who knows what kind of jamming/electronic warfare techniques employed too. It seems to come down to offensive power. Best defense is offense indeed. Which is why nation's with high missile capabilities or air force capabilities are able to assert their will. Except potentially against superpowers.











How Russia's vast military compares with Ukraine's compact army and Nato's forces


Vladimir Putin has moved enough military equipment into south-eastern Ukraine to overwhelm the capital




www.telegraph.co.uk

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## F-22Raptor

dBSPL said:


> Subways have become shelters. The mass of people... Ukrainians will unfortunately never forget this.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496930061454385155




This is a massive strategic mistake for Russia over the long term.

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## Oldman1

RescueRanger said:


> *Update:* Russian Airforce Antonov AN-26 military transport in the Voronezh region.
> 
> View attachment 818316


Kind of little far from Ukraine. Could be an accident.

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## NA71

1ndy said:


> so at least 100 less Russians on Earth...


Hey...those were your eternal friends....have your flipped your support?

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## Patriot forever

Gripen9 said:


> Where in europe?



Don't embarrass him but I think Germany can take care of itself. It is a very powerful country with a very mature leadership. 

Its just politics.


----------



## Gripen9

dBSPL said:


> Subways have become shelters. The mass of people... Ukrainians will unfortunately never forget this.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496930061454385155


This will also cause a spike in COVID infections as well  too many people crammed in a small space for hours.


----------



## frequency

Enigma SIG said:


> Why the virtue signalling then? The west kills maims and rapes all over the globe unimpeded. Admit it, the west only cares because this is happening in Europe. Were this in the Middle east / Pakistan the west would have cheered on.
> Putin is a madman but the West are tree-huggers? Western mainstream media should spare the world their crap.


Putin is not a mad man. He's very reasonable. The west is the problem.

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## khail007

Khan vilatey said:


> So if the west puts sanctions on Russia, will India still get the remaining s-400 and newer military equipment from Russia 🇷🇺
> 
> K



IMO, indeed India will get her hardware. This is the hypocrisy of the USA/West and it leads them to nowhere. 
Against Russia, for a few days, they will play a game of sanctions for some individuals/companies. IMO, it could not be materialized through UNSC and will have no significant impact as a whole.


----------



## RescueRanger

Oldman1 said:


> Kind of little far from Ukraine. Could be an accident.



Plenty of Antonov's flying around could be anything, having flown on Aeroflot in 2008 when visiting Russia, I don't like their flight safety record xD

Here is another one that left Armenia and is headed towards Volgograd:

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496925096279101442

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496929181304819715


----------



## 1ndy

NA71 said:


> Hey...those were your eternal friends....have your flipped your support?


I am against anyone who kill innocent people... China India Pak US UK Russia ... Those who kill innocent people, deserve to be killed.

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## NA71

F-22Raptor said:


> This is a massive strategic mistake for Russia over the long term.



Dont jump to conclusion .....They were forced to take this action....Ukraine and NATO playing a nasty game ...and everyone knows the master....

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## dBSPL

Gripen9 said:


> This will also cause a spike in COVID infections as well  too many people crammed in a small space for hours.


The last thing Ukrainians will think about right now is covid.

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## Enigma SIG

frequency said:


> *Putin is not a mad man*. He's very reasonable. The west is the problem.


Not what I said.


----------



## Hydration

F-22Raptor said:


> This is a massive strategic mistake for Russia over the long term.


its even a bigger mistake to let nato in ukraine

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## Falcon29

1ndy said:


> I am against anyone who kill innocent people... China India Pak US UK Russia ... Those who kill innocent people, deserve to be killed.



What about Israel??

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## NA71

1ndy said:


> I am against anyone who kill innocent people... China India Pak US UK Russia ... Those who kill innocent people, deserve to be killed.


Thn Modi should the first one .....


----------



## ghazi52

More than 100,000 people have moved within Ukraine, UN refugee agency estimates​From CNN's Priscilla Alvarez






A long line of cars is seen exiting Kyiv on February 24. Heavy traffic appeared to be heading west, away from where explosions were heard early in the morning. (Valentyn Ogirenko/Reuters)


More than 100,000 people have moved within Ukraine, “fleeing the violence for safety,” the United Nations refugee agency said in a statement Thursday. 




> “There has been significant displacement inside the country – it seems that more than 100,000 people have moved within the borders fleeing the violence for safety. And there have been movements towards and across international borders. But the situation is still chaotic and evolving fast,” said Matthew Saltmarsh, a spokesperson at the agency.




Refugee resettlement organizations are mobilizing resources to assist displaced Ukrainians, advocates tell CNN. The scale and scope of refugee resettlement is likely to come into focus in the coming days and weeks. But refugee advocates are already warning of displacement — and meeting the needs of refugees — as Russia invades Ukraine. 

“Usually, these conflicts and exodus of refugees happens over time. You see a few people, then a few more people,” said Melanie Nezer, senior vice president of global public affairs at HIAS, a refugee resettlement organization. Nezer cautioned that it’s still unclear how long the conflict will last and if people will be able to return home. 

“We are working to quickly mobilize resources and connect with partners to establish a response that will provide life-saving support to civilians forced to flee their homes,” Lani Fortier, senior director of emergencies at the International Rescue Committee, said in a statement. 
HIAS’ partner in the region, Right to Protection, has been assisting displaced people in Ukraine for years. Since the invasion, staff have been seeking safety, Nezer said.

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## Pappa Alpha

Looks like children of two moms can only do lip service and sabre rattling against peers.


----------



## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496929026790899715

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496931634696028160


----------



## dBSPL

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496925096279101442
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496929181304819715


VTB dead. Sberbank, on the other hand, kicked from dollar transfer system. I don't think the Moskow stock market will be able to open tomorrow

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496930121109880843


----------



## NA71

Falcon29 said:


> What about Israel??


Fisrt ask him about his own Indian Army ...how many Kashmiris have been killed by IA....

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## Flight of falcon

Falcon29 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496929026790899715
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496931634696028160




I am sorry these tweets will not change the fact that Russians will decimate Ukrainian resistance very very quickly .

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## 1ndy

Falcon29 said:


> What about Israel??


I cannot write names of every country... and I think "anyone" covers them all.

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## Gripen9

The SC said:


> Germany..


Guess enjoy some *wienerschnitzel*


----------



## 1ndy

NA71 said:


> Fisrt ask him about his own Indian Army ...how many Kashmiris have been killed by IA....


you can read but can't comprehend


----------



## NA71

1ndy said:


> I cannot write names of every country... and I think "anyone" covers them all.


just say India.....


----------



## F-22Raptor

Hydration said:


> its even a bigger mistake to let nato in ukraine




NATO will grow even stronger in Europe, and Russia will now have a permanent enemy in Ukraine. RUssia doesn’t have the military capability to suppress Ukraine over the long term. Putin is hoping to oppress the Ukrainian people and that’s a huge assumption. 

The Russian economy will also get wrecked. 

Huge blunder for Putin and Russian long term prospects

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496884753848586242


----------



## NA71

1ndy said:


> you can read but can't comprehend


I am SHAHZ UD DIN

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496932556826193927


Flight of falcon said:


> I am sorry these tweets will not change the fact that Russians will decimate Ukrainian resistance very very quickly .


The tweets are for updates.


NA71 said:


> Fisrt ask him about his own Indian Army ...how many Kashmiris have been killed by IA....


He might not say it in front of you but he seems like a good guy.

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## 1ndy

NA71 said:


> just say India.....


you are no better than Bhagats of worlds largest political party


----------



## Enigma SIG

F-22Raptor said:


> NATO will grow even stronger in Europe, and Russia will now have a permanent enemy in Ukraine. RUssia doesn’t have the military capability to suppress Ukraine over the long term. Putin is hoping to oppress the Ukrainian people and that’s a huge assumption.
> 
> The Russian economy will also get wrecked.
> 
> Huge blunder for Putin and Russian long term prospects

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## SubWater

This war show hypocrisy of the West especially Americans. 
WE have not forgotten illegal recognition of Golan heights by Trump regime, so Russians are doing the same, and Americans should act same.
Iran also should learn from countries like Ukraine and Libya to not surrender its nuclear capabilities and infrastructures. We must also get back Bahrain which separated from Iran illegally and by force.

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## dBSPL

France: We warn Putin. NATO is also the planet's largest nuclear power alliance.

(I laughed so much)

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## 1ndy

Falcon29 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496932556826193927
> The tweets are for updates.
> 
> He might not say it in front of you but he seems like a good guy.


I named India in my very first post

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## NA71

1ndy said:


> you are no better than Bhagats of worlds largest political party


PLEASE


----------



## nang2

I think China government is watching very closely, particularly the type of sanctions the West is throwing at Russia.

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## NA71

dBSPL said:


> France: We warn Putin. NATO is also the planet's largest nuclear power alliance.
> 
> (I laughed so much)


The most Timid member of that Alliance is France ...Russians must have done their calculation....the conflict will spread....

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## khail007

That Guy said:


> Never said you did, sorry about the insinuation.
> 
> Just pointing out that saying Ukraine is full of nazis isn't really worth mentioning, because Europe is full of white people, of course there are nazis.



Brother, here I really appreciate your humble positive attitude.
No hard feelings, if any arise during a mutual discussion on this thread.

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496933142984278020


SubWater said:


> This war show hypocrisy of the West especially Americans.
> WE have not forgotten illegal recognition of Golan heights by Trump regime, so Russians are doing the same, and Americans should act same.
> Iran also should learn from countries like Ukraine and Libya to not surrender its nuclear capabilities and infrastructures. We must also get back Bahrain which separated from Iran illegally and by force.



We? Are you Syrian? What is Iran doing about Golan Heights? LOL.

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## 1ndy

NA71 said:


> PLEASE


you and them have one thing in common... you guys don't listen/read before opening your mouth.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496934633644204033


----------



## jamal18

dBSPL said:


> Russia screwed. Even If you wanna sell the whole Ukraine, it won't be worth that much.
> 
> I still don't understand how Putin made such a mistake.



Will somebody explain the end game?

So Russia will be running a country of 50 million Ukrainians who hate them with years of counter insurgency?

Some one tell me because I don't understand.

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## RescueRanger

nang2 said:


> I think China government is watching very closely, particularly the type of sanctions the West is throwing at Russia.


For a very good reason:









Trading Dollars for Yuan: How Wise Is Russia’s Reserves Management?


The greatest risk, which will grow together with funds and reserves, is that of the open or creeping politicization of investment. In other words, the state will choose to invest in “friendly” but unstable currencies, as well as to extend loans to even “friendlier” states and companies...




carnegiemoscow.org

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496934049570598916


----------



## NA71

the other conclusion is that in conventional warfare ... nuclear element is being dragged in pretty quickly even less than 24hrs.....

so it will be the case of Indo-Pak conflict ....


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496933349113401349


----------



## dBSPL

Russia's CDS (credit default swap) has reached the 880 band. If this trend continues, very difficult days await the Russian economy.


----------



## RescueRanger

jamal18 said:


> Will somebody explain the end game?
> 
> So Russia will be running a country of 50 million Ukrainians who hate them with years of counter insurgency?
> 
> Some one tell me because I don't understand.



The message being sent – that avoiding a large-scale war in Europe is more important than upholding Ukrainian sovereignty – is music to Putin’s ears. And he knows the tune well, thanks to the Western response to Russia’s annexation of Crimea in 2014 and to its invasion and carve-up of Georgia in 2008.

He want's to rip up the old agreements (which in his mind) humiliated Russia and wants the western powers to see Russia as an Equal and a pivot in the region.

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## R Wing

ZeEa5KPul said:


> That's a completely misguided view. Sometimes you're backed into a geopolitical corner and you have no choice but to fight out of it. The "blunder" was the USSR adopting a defective socio-economic system and not being able to maintain the gains they made in WWII. Putin is just trying to clean up this historic mess.
> 
> Russia doesn't want NATO on its border, but it doesn't have a choice in the matter. There's no amount of "nice" Russia can be that will cause NATO to move away from the border. Yeltsin was a Western stooge yet NATO still expanded. Self-defense is never a blunder.
> 
> Russia is going to get NATO on its border no matter what it does. The best it can do is strengthen its position as much as it can.



Thank you for being one of the only sane voices here. Not enough people have studied the realist school of thought and grand strategy. 

NATO was coming to Russia's borders anyway. Iraq didn't have nukes yet still got screwed. When the US decides it wants to try and screw you, it'll find a way - a fake intelligence report, a false flag attack, whatever it takes. So, you have two bad options and just have to pick the less bad one, which in this case was calculated to be this attack. 

People keep looking at it through shockingly narrow lenses or as if history started a few years ago. This is post Cold War history that's still alive and well. This is a story of incessant NATO/US encirclement of Russia despite commitments and warnings --- and the eventual reaction, for which nobody will pay more than the current Ukrainian regime and many of its people.

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## nang2

RescueRanger said:


> For a very good reason:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trading Dollars for Yuan: How Wise Is Russia’s Reserves Management?
> 
> 
> The greatest risk, which will grow together with funds and reserves, is that of the open or creeping politicization of investment. In other words, the state will choose to invest in “friendly” but unstable currencies, as well as to extend loans to even “friendlier” states and companies...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> carnegiemoscow.org


Russia has been hoarding gold for quite some time now. It seems to me that this offense is well prepared long ago. If China starts to hoard gold, the war with Taiwan may start in the near future.

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## beast89

NA71 said:


> Hey...those were your eternal friends....have your flipped your support?


indians in turmoil, USA or Russia now

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## R Wing

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496927215778516996
> 
> US to deploy additional 7,000 troops to Europe



The US still convinces itself that Europe (apart from Ukraine) is under some sort of Russian threat. It never was. Ukraine continues to pay the price for American hubris and regime change.

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## Indus Pakistan

Oldman1 said:


> Nope and thats whats worrying.


When ruling elites choose to go to war the people rarely get to stop them. In most cases the media will buy in the gullible leaving a small 'fringe' to protest - who will be ignored and derided as being soft on 'evil'.

And even if the no war groups gain traction and bring millions on the street as happened in 2003 dogs of war will still be unleashed. As fig leaf some years later commission or enquiry will be set up which won't do anything. Most of those involved will have retired and will face nomional consequences.

The dead and destruction will just fill more history books.

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## The Eagle

Deino said:


> With all due respect, I can only repeat what I wrote today so often since I strongly need to oppose this most simplistic standpoint: Yes, there are Nazis in Ukraine, no-one denies and they have a severe social issue with this. Fact!
> 
> However also fact is, that other countries - including France, the USA and Russia itself - have similar tendencies too. As such to condemn a whole country, its society and its government as being Nazi infected or even a Nazi regime shows only a lack in historical understanding or being fallen into a well-laid propaganda trap.
> 
> This is worse, when this is used as an argument for an all-out war against the whole country and not only within/against those occupied regions. AGAIN YES, Nazis are an evil - I know it quite well from my country's own shameful history - but as noted, unfortunately other countries do have the same issues too. Therefore any claims or comparisons, the Ukrainian government is a Nazi regime and all their "outrages" would be comparable to Saddam Hussein, Bin Laden or any other terrorist's crimes is both inappropriate and unjustified here. (Like certain members try to portray here and at the SDF)
> 
> Again, I want to make clear that NO-ONE denies there are Nazis in Ukraine but this is not the real reason and even more, never an excuse for that war.
> 
> 
> As a final word, let me add a personnel note: I'm neither pro US or EU nor am I defending their system. In fact I'm opposing the lack of NATO's of understanding towards Russia's security concernsand the fallen promises once made during the negotiations towards my own country‘s reunification since a long time as shameful. In fact in other forums I'm much too often called the understander of Russian and China! But it is my strong believe, that war is not the answer, even lesser when based on lies!
> 
> Consequently I never applauded what the US did in other countries and we all know to what terrible consequences such and other lies led in the ME, in Iraq, Iran and Syria …. But again, this is not a reason to advocate or justify this war!
> 
> I hope for at least a bit of understanding since in another forum I was right thereafter condemned as a Nazi-supporter or even a Nazi since I am opposing this war and/or since I am a German.
> 
> So, lets stay rationale and not too much simple-minded to judge by a single (or even a few more) images posted in the Internet since they support our opinion … the reality is often not that simple.
> 
> Best and take care,
> Andreas



You missed the whole point of my conversation and merely concluded as such because a poster tagged you. I have already explained the point being discussed regarding Nazism and how the same is among the list of reasons for Russia to attack Ukraine. One of the reasons... and in-fact, only a savage will support war against civilians.

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## ghazi52

Ukraine official says at least 57 killed and 169 injured following attacks by Russian forces​From CNN’s Gul Tuysuz in Kyiv

There are 57 people who have died and 169 people have been injured – including both combat and non-combat injuries – following attacks by Russian forces, Ukraine’s Minister of Healthcare Viktor Lyashko said Thursday.

Speaking live on Ukraine’s 1+1 TV channel, Lyashko said hospitals and medical workers had also come under fire on Thursday – including in Avdiivka and Vuhledar in Donetsk – with casualties reported among medical workers.

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## 1ndy

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496933349113401349


manpads can easily shoot approaching aircrafts.


----------



## jamal18

That Guy said:


> By completely having it's economy destroyed. Yup.
> 
> Russia should have stopped at the rebel held areas, and called it a day. No one would have cared, and sanctions wouldn't have been so severe.



You're missing the point. This isn't about protecting ethnic Russians, although it is a factor. It's about stopping a NATO owned Ukraine deploying nuclear weapons on Russia's border. This was never achieved diplomatically due to Nato, so the Russians are achieving this by force.

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## R Wing

dBSPL said:


> VTB dead. Sberbank, on the other hand, kicked from dollar transfer system. I don't think the Moskow stock market will be able to open tomorrow



Everything must have been gamed / expected. Planning for worse case scenarios is part of the strategic planning process. None of this is surprising or unexpected, meaning it fit into the payoffs/costs calculations of Russian planners.

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## INS_Vikrant

jamal18 said:


> Will somebody explain the end game?
> 
> So Russia will be running a country of 50 million Ukrainians who hate them with years of counter insurgency?
> 
> Some one tell me because I don't understand.




Putin aims to re-establish Russian Territorial extant back to its height of Tsar days. He sees it as his ultimate life goal to establish a pan slavic state or a federation centered around Russia no matter the economic/political/military cost.


----------



## ghazi52

US expels second-ranking Russian diplomat after expulsion of US deputy chief of mission from Moscow​From Kylie Atwood and Jennifer Hansler

The US expelled the No. 2 diplomat at the Russian embassy in Washington, DC, in response to Russia expelling the second-ranking US diplomat in Moscow earlier this year, a State Department official confirms.

The Russians were alerted of this yesterday, and the diplomat was given a few weeks to leave the US, the official said.

The US took this action as a direct response to what the Russians had done — nothing related to the Ukraine crisis. This instance follows years of diplomatic tit-for-tats exchanged between the two countries. 

The No. 2 person at the Russian embassy who will be leaving is the minister counselor.

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496936638723006466

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## R Wing

jamal18 said:


> You're missing the point. This isn't about protecting ethnic Russians, although it is a factor. It's about stopping a NATO owned Ukraine deploying nuclear weapons on Russia's border. This was never achieved diplomatically due to Nato, so the Russians are achieving this by force.



Thank you. 

It's insane how small-minded some of the senior members are, especially the self-righteous ones whose pseudo-intellectual takes are full of fallacies of logic.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496936306173169675


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## Hulk

Ukrainians are idiots, why did they want to join NATO and anger Russia. Why cannot they simply defer this ask and avoid the war?

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## R Wing

F-22Raptor said:


> NATO will grow even stronger in Europe, and Russia will now have a permanent enemy in Ukraine. RUssia doesn’t have the military capability to suppress Ukraine over the long term. Putin is hoping to oppress the Ukrainian people and that’s a huge assumption.
> 
> The Russian economy will also get wrecked.
> 
> Huge blunder for Putin and Russian long term prospects



Time will tell.

Can we keep the thread focused on updates and less on predictions and fantasies?

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496929623602614279


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## ghazi52

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496932217570078720

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## R Wing

Hulk said:


> Ukrainians are idiots, why did they want to join NATO and anger Russia. Why cannot they simply defer this ask and avoid the war?



The background for all of this is the CIA-sponsored regime change project that successfully kicked the pro-Russian regime out. The new regime sought legitimacy and 'progress' through Western alliances and was tempted by the carrot of NATO. This is always a pretty bad strategy UNLESS NATO is willing to send military reinforcements and join you in war, which it isnt.

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## The Eagle

Iron Shrappenel said:


> I've read the part that you were trying to point out. It seemed to me that in the continuation of the context, you were trying to justify it as being a justified reason for the invasion of Ukraine.... In that context I could not agree with you hence my post...
> 
> 
> The Germans offered them Helmets lmao....



Why should I justify Ukraine Attack? Putin is not paying me for propaganda. I highlighted that how several reasons are there for Russia to do so.

At-least, the provided the helmet.

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## jamal18

INS_Vikramaditya said:


> Putin aims to re-establish Russian Territorial extant back to its height of Tsar days. He sees it as his ultimate life goal to establish a pan slavic state or a federation centered around Russia no matter the economic/political/military cost.


No.

This is what the lying media portrays. Putin is 'mad'. He wants to re-establish the Soviet Union. Or re-establish the Russian empire. 

Everything can be explained by normal political behavior.

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## ghazi52

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496904280342769673


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## Indus Pakistan

I am actually surprised that the Russians took this long to react. Surely post Soviet Union the best option for all would have been to leave Eastern Europe as a buffer and zone of neutrality. 

But NATO began marching east soon as the red hammer and sickle came down. It kept on rolling east and then even moved into what were ex-Soviet territories like Latvia, Estonia etc. 

Then the chess game was set to checkmate Russia by moving into it;s underbelly in Ukraine - a region of historical Russia. That the Russkies took this level of provocation to react is indicative of how Russia had weakened as a state. Until finally Moscow thought 'enough is enough'.

I just can't believe the ruling elites in US, UK, France are risking third world war for what exactly? Over a ex-Russian territory on the fringes of Europe?

This is how miscalculations are made and millions die .... !

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## khail007

Oldman1 said:


> When you face against an onslaught, you should be retreating and hide. Remember how the Taliban lost Afghanistan in short amount of time in the start of the invasion? They retreat and hide in the mountains or neighbor Pakistan.



Yes indeed one should retreat and hide, but it depends on how much firepower you hold against the onslaught forces. Here though Ukrainian forces are weak but have significant systems/weapons to resist against Russians.
Against USA/NATO aggression on Afghanistan, if the Taliban tried to hold, it could be suicidal because they only have AK47s/RPGs/Grenades.
So both are different scenarios, one could not compare it with Afghans. It was their legitimate right to meltdown at that time. But later they proved their mettle.

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## ghazi52

US expands no-fly zone near Ukraine​From CNN's Pete Muntean

The US government is expanding the area near Ukraine where American pilots cannot fly. 

The Federal Aviation Administration said it is publishing an expanded notice to pilots that will “now cover the entire country of Ukraine, the entire country of Belarus and a western portion of Russia.”

Prior to this announcement, the FAA prohibited operations only in an eastern region of Ukraine – though the Ukrainian airspace was already closed and no US airlines operate flights to or from Ukraine. 

The FAA says it is putting out its own bulletin to pilots instead of relying on one from the Ukrainian government “given the circumstances.” The restrictions do not apply to military operations.


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## jamal18

R Wing said:


> The background for all of this is the CIA-sponsored regime change project that successfully kicked the pro-Russian regime out. The new regime sought legitimacy and 'progress' through Western alliances and was tempted by the carrot of NATO. This is always a pretty bad strategy UNLESS NATO is willing to send military reinforcements and join you in war, which it isnt.


This entire mess was created by the West.

Incidentally, the previous democratically regime wasn't 'pro-Russia'. The prime minister realised that as a country of two groups, for it to join Nato will cause tensions that would break the country apart. Not pro-Russian, but pro-Ukraine.

And he was right.

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## The Eagle

Oldman1 said:


> When you face against an onslaught, you should be retreating and hide. Remember how the Taliban lost Afghanistan in short amount of time in the start of the invasion? They retreat and hide in the mountains or neighbor Pakistan.



Exactly that's what NATO thought and believed that Taliban lost. Taliban had no 4.5++ generation fighter jets to face IS invasion or attack so the strategy was to hide and wait for the enemy to enter. What happened for 20 years, is witnessed by the world. Just don't drag lame references.to enforce your point. Such was the mentality of enemy.lost.


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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496892271387684870

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## RescueRanger

USAF AWACS in the skies above the black sea:

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## NA71

the sinister game is to get closer and closer to Russian Territory by luring Ukrainian leadership with a carrot of NATO Support ....

Will USA allow Russia to deploy military resources close to its borders ?

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## Indus Pakistan

INS_Vikramaditya said:


> Putin aims to re-establish Russian Territorial extant back to its height of Tsar days.


This is like saying 'Biden wants to re-establish a modern mash up of Roman Empire meets British Empire with Washington as the new Rome.

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## GumNaam

Russia takes airpt near kiev, 18 IL78s dropped paratroopers, that's a lot of paratroopers!


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## khail007

Oldman1 said:


> When you face against an onslaught, you should be retreating and hide. Remember how the Taliban lost Afghanistan in short amount of time in the start of the invasion? They retreat and hide in the mountains or neighbor Pakistan.



Yes indeed one should retreat and hide, but it depends on how much firepower you hold against the onslaught forces. Here though Ukrainian forces are weak but have significant systems/weapons to resist against Russians.
Against USA/NATO aggression on Afghanistan, if the Taliban tried to hold, it could be suicidal because they only have AK47s/RPGs/Grenades.
So both are different scenarios, one could not compare it with Afghans. It was their legitimate right to meltdown at that time. But later they proved their mettle.

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## ghazi52

Canada suspends embassy and consulate operations in Ukraine temporarily​From CNN’s Paradise Afshar and Tanika Gray 

The Canadian minister of foreign affairs announced Thursday that the country will temporarily suspend embassy and consulate operations in Ukraine. 




> “The situation in Ukraine has rapidly deteriorated and poses serious challenges. As a result, we are temporarily suspending operations at both our embassy and our consulate in Ukraine. Canadian personnel are now safely in Poland,” Minister of Foreign Affairs Mélanie Joly said in a statement.



Joly said operations at the embassy and consulate will resume when “the security situation in Ukraine allows us to ensure the adequate delivery of services.” 

Consular services will remain available to Canadians in Ukraine. 

“The safety and security of all Canadians is our highest priority,” Joly said.

“Canadians should continue to avoid all travel to Ukraine. We urge those currently in Ukraine to shelter in place unless it is safe for them to leave the country.”

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## Indus Pakistan

NA71 said:


> Will USA allow Russia to deploy military resources close to its borders ?


Yes, as long as they remain *inside* Russia.

_Ps. Read up on the Cuban Missile Crisis._

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## jamal18

Falcon29 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496892271387684870


Well, there's loyalty for you!

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## Meengla

dBSPL said:


> Parts of Europe hosted some of the most brutal wars the world has ever seen.
> 
> It's not about religion, not race or climate. By nature, humans are perfect creatures to adapt to any conditions.



Respectfully, I disagree.
The more one has to lose, the less they would want to lose. The Afghan Taliban prevailed because they had so little to lose after 9/11. Yes, one might say that 'life' is the ultimate loss for a human being but when you are cornered and your religion gives you a 'way out' via 'martyrdom'--a concept still runs very strong in Muslims worldwide--then the fighters like the Taliban would give any sacrifice to fight--and they fought hard. Forget the spoiled-from-the-modernity Ukrainians of now--even in the 1940s the French--a Superpower of its time--had large, if not the majority of its population capitulate before the Nazis and actively, *if not purposefully collaborated with the occupiers*. That aspect of France and many, if not most other European countries who were under the Nazi rule, *is deliberately downplayed in the history* which is, as all history is, written by the victors. 

Unless we start to see historical events in more neutral ways instead of from the victors' version, unless we get to the root causes of wars, unless we realize that given similar circumstances, all humans would act similarly, we will continue to see wars. BTW, this war will be remembered in history as it broke the 80+ year old status quo in Europe--and perhaps in the world at large.

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## ghazi52

Biden says Putin 'has much larger ambitions'​In his remarks at the White House, President Biden also said that he believes Vladimir Putin "has much larger ambitions" that go far beyond Ukraine's borders.

"He wants to, in fact, re-establish the former Soviet Union," Biden said. "That's what this is about".

"His ambitions are completely contrary to the place where the rest of the world has arrived," he added.

Additionally, Biden said that sanctions against Putin personally "are still on the table" as a possible option in addition to those already announced against Russia's economy and several individuals and entities.


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## The Eagle

ghazi52 said:


> NOW: Biden speaks on Russia's attack on Ukraine​US President Joe Biden is addressing the nation from the White House as his administration assesses Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> Biden “will deliver remarks on Russia’s unprovoked and unjustified attack on Ukraine,” the White House said in its daily guidance.
> 
> In a Twitter message published earlier today, Biden said he agreed with fellow G7 leaders "to move forward on devastating packages of sanctions and other economic measures to hold Russia to account."
> 
> The US and the world have not seen a “conventional move like this, nation state to nation state, since World War II” a senior defense official had told reporters earlier on Thursday. “Certainly nothing on this size and scope and scale."



Told you to share link to credit the source but you are ignoring totally. No more such posting.

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## dBSPL

Live report from Kiev: (For those who know Turkish)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496936266381897731
From the Ukrainian correspondent:


It is impossible to get out of Kiev,
Most of the city has a curfew.
Russian helicopters continue reconnaissance activities around Kiev.
Ukraine took 16 of Russian soldiers without a fight.
The reason why Ukraine could not react very quickly is that its air defense system is very weak.
The simultaneous attack on 17 regions showed how weak the Ukrainian air defense system is.
About 50 Ukrainian soldiers lost their lives. The homes of many civilians were bombed. Many civilians lost their lives in Odessa and Kharkiv.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496940057042767879


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## HAIDER

Indus Pakistan said:


> Yes, as long as they remain *inside* Russia.
> 
> _Ps. Read up on the Cuban Missile Crisis._


All major powers play within their own set of rules , because at the end of day only power with VETO authority in UN rules...

Major grain and petro shortage is coming ... 25 percent of grain comes from Ukraine and Russia.

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## Oldman1

The Eagle said:


> Exactly that's what NATO thought and believed that Taliban lost. Taliban had no 4.5++ generation fighter jets to face IS invasion or attack so the strategy was to hide and wait for the enemy to enter. What happened for 20 years, is witnessed by the world. Just don't drag lame references.to enforce your point. Such was the mentality of enemy.lost.


So what about Vietnam war or Gulf War 2?


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## NA71

ghazi52 said:


> Biden says Putin 'has much larger ambitions'​In his remarks at the White House, President Biden also said that he believes Vladimir Putin "has much larger ambitions" that go far beyond Ukraine's borders.
> 
> "He wants to, in fact, re-establish the former Soviet Union," Biden said. "That's what this is about".
> 
> "His ambitions are completely contrary to the place where the rest of the world has arrived," he added.
> 
> Additionally, Biden said that sanctions against Putin personally "are still on the table" as a possible option in addition to those already announced against Russia's economy and several individuals and entities.


But still these ambitions are smaller than US own ambitions


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## Oldman1

khail007 said:


> Yes indeed one should retreat and hide, but it depends on how much firepower you hold against the onslaught forces. Here though Ukrainian forces are weak but have significant systems/weapons to resist against Russians.
> Against USA/NATO aggression on Afghanistan, if the Taliban tried to hold, it could be suicidal because they only have AK47s/RPGs/Grenades.
> So both are different scenarios, one could not compare it with Afghans. It was their legitimate right to meltdown at that time. But later they proved their mettle.



So its like Iraq at the beginning of Gulf War 2 with lost of conventional forces, and then insurgency.


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## jamal18

Indus Pakistan said:


> This is like saying 'Biden wants to re-establish a modern mash up of Roman Empire meets British Empire with Washington as the new Rome.


 
When ever the lying media describes an antagonist as 'mad', it means that they are trying to hide the real reason behind events.

How often has the BBC mentioned the 'eastward expansion of Nato'?

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## pakpride00090

Meengla said:


> Respectfully, I disagree.
> The more one has to lose, the less they would want to lose. The Afghan Taliban prevailed because they had so little to lose after 9/11. Yes, one might say that 'life' is the ultimate loss for a human being but when you are cornered and your religion gives you a 'way out' via 'martyrdom'--a concept still runs very strong in Muslims worldwide--then the fighters like the Taliban would give any sacrifice to fight--and they fought hard. Forget the spoiled-from-the-modernity Ukrainians of now--even in the 1940s the French--a Superpower of its time--had large, if not the majority of its population capitulate before the Nazis and actively, *if not purposefully collaborated with the occupiers*. That aspect of France and many, if not most other European countries who were under the Nazi rule, *is deliberately downplayed in the history* which is, as all history is, written by the victors.
> 
> Unless we start to see historical events in more neutral ways instead of from the victors' version, unless we get to the root causes of wars, unless we realize that given similar circumstances, all humans would act similarly, we will continue to see wars. BTW, this war will be remembered in history as it broke the 80+ year old status quo in Europe--and perhaps in the world at large.



Do you any links/resources/books/author names where we can read more about history from non-victor or neutral or even loser perspective ? Thank you so much.


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## Indus Pakistan

Deino said:


> However also fact is, that other countries - including France, the USA and Russia itself


This is very true but Ukraine is in class of it's own. It is the motherlode of Nazis. I was reminded of this when a old British Pakistan man was murdered because a individual took thought that all people of colour should be kicked out of Britain.

The irony was the guy was not even a native Britain. In fact he was not EVEN a British resident. A Ukrainian living in Ukraine was constipated about minorties in UK.

And went as far as to move to UK so that he could go to war against Muslims. 









Mosque bomber Pavlo Lapshyn given life for murder


Ukrainian student Pavlo Lapshyn is jailed for at least 40 years for murdering an 82-year-old man and carrying out a series of mosque bombings.



www.bbc.co.uk

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## NA71

The funny thing is that Mr. Trump is supporting Russian action ....








Trump praises ‘genius’ Putin for moving troops to eastern Ukraine


Former president says Russian leader made ‘very savvy’ decision to recognise two territories of eastern Ukraine as independent




www.theguardian.com

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## Oldman1

jamal18 said:


> You're missing the point. This isn't about protecting ethnic Russians, although it is a factor. It's about stopping a NATO owned Ukraine deploying nuclear weapons on Russia's border. This was never achieved diplomatically due to Nato, so the Russians are achieving this by force.


LOL! There are multiple NATO countries that borders Russia and have no nukes deployed there. Because of what Russia is doing, it's going to be a different story.

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## Trench Broom

Does Ukraine have the ability to hit Russia with missiles?


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## dBSPL

Ukraine began to distribute weapons to the civilian population for self-defense.
Almost all of the Russian troops entering from the south of Ukraine are Chechens (Kadyrov militants). This is one of the most distressing issues for Ukrainian people.

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## Trench Broom

Indus Pakistan said:


> I am actually surprised that the Russians took this long to react. Surely post Soviet Union the best option for all would have been to leave Eastern Europe as a buffer and zone of neutrality.
> 
> But NATO began marching east soon as the red hammer and sickle came down. It kept on rolling east and then even moved into what were ex-Soviet territories like Latvia, Estonia etc.


But by taking Ukraine, Russia then has more NATO nations on its border than if it did not invade.

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## kingQamaR

Ukrainian country will be broken now and no recognition from abroad of new puppet regime. Makes it all pointless loss lives destruction to it.

And Russian economy will be totally broken by the time putin claims over to get out. Sanctions will not end now for him west will not settle until his removal and his regime

By taking Ukraine he’s now bordering nato Poland lol , something he was fighting not to happen.


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## EAGLE777

RescueRanger said:


> He is a Chechen, not all Russians are white skinned, green eyed.


Doesn't look Chechen at all, more like Armenian


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## Oldman1

dBSPL said:


> Ukraine began to distribute weapons to the civilian population for self-defense.
> Almost all of the Russian troops entering from the south of Ukraine are Chechens (Kadyrov militants). This is one of the most distressing issues for Ukrainian people.


Don't forget the Belarusian forces coming in north.


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## Indus Pakistan

Oldman1 said:


> Russia and have no nukes deployed there.


They are in NATO. They can be deployed there faster then I can get my penis up.


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## Trench Broom

kingQamaR said:


> Ukrainian country will be broken now and no recognition from abroad of new puppet regime. Makes it all pointless loss lives destruction to it.
> 
> And Russian economy will be totally broken by the time putin claims over to get out. Sanctions will not end now for him west will not settle until his removal and his regime


The west can't agree on meaningful sanctions and Germany relies on Russian fuel. Sanctions will be superifcial.

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## WinterFangs

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496941158550974473
watching bbc, also confirmed by them.


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## Oldman1

Trench Broom said:


> Does Ukraine have the ability to hit Russia with missiles?



No, unless Ukrainian aircraft with missiles were around.


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## dBSPL

Clashes are reported to have ceased (for now) in the center of Odessa.

Intense clashes continue in Mariopol.


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## Trench Broom

Oldman1 said:


> No, unless Ukrainian aircraft with missiles were around.


So Ukraine has nothing ground launched that can hit Russia? I mean they border each other, surely they have something?


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## Indus Pakistan

Trench Broom said:


> But by taking Ukraine, Russia then has more NATO nations on its border than if it did not invade.


What sort of logic is this. Why does NATO not retreat back to Germnany that way m\ad dog Putin will be far away near the Urals.


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## Iñigo

"I just can't believe the ruling elites in US, UK, France are risking third world war for what exactly?"

(2) Inertia, blind rage, blind passion: the Anglo-imperial oligarchy in London and Washington suffers from a very deep, pathological and incurable Russophobia that permeates everything

and

(1) Imperial arrogance

This Empire, AngloEmpire 2.0 (1945/67-)
has three gods, worships three gods:









Capitoline Triad - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





(1) imperial hybris
(2) corporatocracy
(3) "our colonial project" (Jabotinsky)

...

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## Meengla

pakpride00090 said:


> Do you any links/resources/books/author names where we can read more about history from non-victor or neutral or even loser perspective ? Thank you so much.



No one resource. Such viewpoints are often found in the 'DarK Web' of the internet. You'd be branded a 'Nazi' or an 'Anti-Semite' or some 'conspiracy theorist' or worse would get into serious trouble with authorities. And I don't go to such places--no time. However, I follow events based on the 'psychology' of human nature. See my profile pic! You just have to watch a LOT of documentaries and in between you'd find the alternate version of events. Truth ALWAYS lies somewhere in between!!

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## khail007

Oldman1 said:


> So its like Iraq at the beginning of Gulf War 2 with lost of conventional forces, and then insurgency.



Afghan even do not have conventional forces at the time of USA/NATO aggression and occupation. Even the USA was calling them a handful of miscreants/rag-tag militia.
You are not grasping the idea, that is how much your equipment/weapon is worth to hold against the onslaught. In the case of the USA/NATO, they enjoyed state-of-the-art firepower, equipment, and weapon systems on the ground and in the air.


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## Oldman1

Trench Broom said:


> So Ukraine has nothing ground launched that can hit Russia? I mean they border each other, surely they have something?



Unless you count anti tank Javelin missiles and you were about a mile from Russian border.


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## Indus Pakistan

Indus Pakistan said:


> I am actually surprised that the Russians took this long to react. Surely post Soviet Union the best option for all would have been to leave Eastern Europe as a buffer and zone of neutrality.
> 
> But NATO began marching east soon as the red hammer and sickle came down. It kept on rolling east and then even moved into what were ex-Soviet territories like Latvia, Estonia etc.
> 
> Then the chess game was set to checkmate Russia by moving into it;s underbelly in Ukraine - a region of historical Russia. That the Russkies took this level of provocation to react is indicative of how Russia had weakened as a state. Until finally Moscow thought 'enough is enough'.
> 
> I just can't believe the ruling elites in US, UK, France are risking third world war for what exactly? Over a ex-Russian territory on the fringes of Europe?
> 
> This is how miscalculations are made and millions die .... !


Thoughts @vostok Why did Russia just sleep while NATO rolled east?


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## Bilal.

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496936306173169675


Man this gives the feel of the hill battle from the war of the world movie.


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## Oldman1

khail007 said:


> Afghan even do not have conventional forces at the time of USA/NATO aggression and occupation. Even the USA was calling them a handful of miscreants/rag-tag militia.
> You are not grasping the idea, that is how much your equipment/weapon is worth to hold against the onslaught. In the case of the USA/NATO, they enjoyed state-of-the-art firepower, equipment, and weapon systems on the ground and in the air.


And what about Gulf War 2 I mentioned?


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## lastofthepatriots

dBSPL said:


> Ukraine began to distribute weapons to the civilian population for self-defense.
> Almost all of the Russian troops entering from the south of Ukraine are Chechens (Kadyrov militants). This is one of the most distressing issues for Ukrainian people.



Kadyrov’s dogs are nothing to worry about. Last time they came in 2015 half of them left in shoppers(plastic bags) and the other half ran away.

Plus the Ukrainians have Sheikh Mansur’s men(real chechens) fighting for them. They are the actual battle hardened veterans from the wars in Chechnya and they want russian blood.

This is them:

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## Deino

The Eagle said:


> You missed the whole point of my conversation and merely concluded as such because a poster tagged you. I have already explained the point being discussed regarding Nazism and how the same is among the list of reasons for Russia to attack Ukraine. One of the reasons... and in-fact, only a savage will support war against civilians.




Then I owe you a sincere apology, but I must admit, not only the events today hit me hard but also some extremely annoying and hurting comments from some members simply since it is so easy, one a German, always a Nazi!

Sorry my friend.

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## RescueRanger

Indus Pakistan said:


> This is very true but Ukraine is in class of it's own. It is the motherlode of Nazis. I was reminded of this when a old British Pakistan man was murdered because a individual took thought that all people of colour should be kicked out of Britain.
> 
> The irony was the guy was not even a native Britain. In fact he was not EVEN a British resident. A Ukrainian living in Ukraine was constipated about minorties in UK.
> 
> And went as far as to move to UK so that he could go to war against Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mosque bomber Pavlo Lapshyn given life for murder
> 
> 
> Ukrainian student Pavlo Lapshyn is jailed for at least 40 years for murdering an 82-year-old man and carrying out a series of mosque bombings.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.co.uk



It's not just Ukraine, the entire Slavic belt is particularly racist, having been to this part of the world one word they use for darker skinned people such as the roma's, Armenians and Moldovans is tsygan which is an insult meaning "gypsy" or "invader". 






This is not a new phenomenon, in the 1940's fueled by Hitler and Goebbels rabid propaganda and the master plan of Himmler the Slavic people committed one of the largest genocides in the history of the holocaust:





Not everyone in this region is of such mind but the majority are and this stems around the history of fascism in the entire region. John Connelly wrote at length about this in his paper "Nazis and Slavs: From Racial Theory to Racist Practice"

You can read the article here:




__





Nazis and Slavs: From Racial Theory to Racist Practice on JSTOR


John Connelly, Nazis and Slavs: From Racial Theory to Racist Practice, Central European History, Vol. 32, No. 1 (1999), pp. 1-33




www.jstor.org

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## Trench Broom

Oldman1 said:


> Unless you count anti tank Javelin missiles and you were about a mile from Russian border.


Wow, that is amazing that for 8 years since Crimea they haven't invested in missiles. Sad.



Indus Pakistan said:


> What sort of logic is this. Why does NATO not retreat back to Germnany that way m\ad dog Putin will be far away near the Urals.


The logic is, if he expands westwards he encounters more NATO nations. So his excuse for invasion is bogus. Ukraine isn't in NATO and discussions on this had basically ended.
So Russia takes Ukraine and all of a sudden, it has NATO members on its borders. Guess what Russia needs to do then for 'security'....take out Poland etc.

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## RescueRanger

SilentEagle said:


> Doesn't look Chechen at all, more like Armenian


*Not all Chechen have fair skin!*


----------



## lastofthepatriots

RescueRanger said:


> It's not just Ukraine, the entire Slavic belt is particularly racist, having been to this part of the world one word they use for darker skinned people such as the roma's, Armenians and Moldovans is tsygan which is an insult meaning "gypsy" or "invader".
> View attachment 818328
> 
> 
> This is not a new phenomenon, in the 1940's fueled by Hitler and Goebbels rabid propaganda and the master plan of Himmler the Slavic people committed one of the largest genocides in the history of the holocaust:
> View attachment 818330
> 
> 
> Not everyone in this region is of such mind but the majority are and this stems around the history of fascism in the entire region. John Connelly wrote at length about this in his paper "Nazis and Slavs: From Racial Theory to Racist Practice"
> 
> You can read the article here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nazis and Slavs: From Racial Theory to Racist Practice on JSTOR
> 
> 
> John Connelly, Nazis and Slavs: From Racial Theory to Racist Practice, Central European History, Vol. 32, No. 1 (1999), pp. 1-33
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jstor.org



Anyone with dark hair is called a churka or black. Skin color has least to do with it.


----------



## Oldman1

Trench Broom said:


> Wow, that is amazing that for 8 years since Crimea they haven't invested in missiles. Sad.


And considering the Ukrainian President prior to the invasion believe Russia wouldn't invade. So you can see how serious or less serious Ukraine is on taking on Russia, whatever the threat was.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

dBSPL said:


> Clashes are reported to have ceased (for now) in the center of Odessa.
> 
> Intense clashes continue in Mariopol.



So that means the Russians have reached Mariupol


----------



## The Eagle

SubWater said:


> We must also get back Bahrain which separated from Iran illegally and by force.



First share the correct location flag. Don't sacrifice Iran for your own wish and whim.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496944661256097793

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496946224762662915

This is where the fighting can turn very ugly


----------



## RescueRanger

lastofthepatriots said:


> Anyone with dark hair is called a churka or black. Skin color has least to do with it.



Chorky and tsygan are two different words with vastly different meanings 

i.e. calling someone "Habshi" and the other is calling someone "Kala Bandar". Skin colour has a lot to do with it, read the article I shared.

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## dBSPL

lastofthepatriots said:


> Kadyrov’s dogs are nothing to worry about. Last time they came in 2015 half of them left in shoppers(plastic bags) and the other half ran away.
> 
> Plus the Ukrainians have Sheikh Mansur’s men(real chechens) fighting for them. They are the actual battle hardened veterans from the wars in Chechnya and they want russian blood.
> 
> This is them:


Don't get me wrong. What the Ukrainians are upset about is not the military merits of these militants. Thinking that they are tarnishing the name of the Chechen nation. ( I listened that from a Ukrainian Tatar)

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496846148182568961


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496945864383868934

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496946513037381635


----------



## khail007

Oldman1 said:


> And what about Gulf War 2 I mentioned?



Google it ... ! I give you some hints 'WMD', 'Mission Accomplished' and 'Crusade'.

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## Indus Pakistan

Trench Broom said:


> Wow, that is amazing that for 8 years since Crimea they haven't invested in missiles. Sad.
> 
> 
> The logic is, if he expands westwards he encounters more NATO nations. So his excuse for invasion is bogus. Ukraine isn't in NATO and discussions on this had basically ended.
> So Russia takes Ukraine and all of a sudden, it has NATO members on its borders. Guess what Russia needs to do then for 'security'....take out Poland etc.


At some point Ukraine would have been included in NATO. Indeed over the horizon EU membership as well. By doing what Putin has he has pretty well stopped that. This event has made it clear to Washington. Don't even think. Thus we can call this pre-emptive. Had Russia taken such posture in 1990s NATO would still be parked on River Oder. But then Boris was too busy supping bottles of Vodka ... !

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## Oldman1

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496944661256097793
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496946224762662915
> 
> This is where the fighting can turn very ugly


I target the supply lines, more vulnerable less trained troops. Tanks and IFVs need ammos and fuel, without them, they are sitting ducks. War 101.

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## HRK

Best ever explanation of situation in most funny yet basic manner ..... 
(only for Pakistanis)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496807923053432836
We Pakistanis can literally make joke on anything

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## lastofthepatriots

RescueRanger said:


> Chorky and tsygan are two different words with vastly different meanings
> 
> i.e. calling someone "Habshi" and the other is calling someone "Kala Bandar". Skin colour has a lot to do with it, read the article I shared.



A lot of Kavkazi are white skin but they are still called churka. My cousin being half Pakistani faced this word a lot in his youth even though he has white skin. He told me it was mostly used in his early school days, but nobody really says it as adults unless you come across a drunk.

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## Oldman1

Indus Pakistan said:


> At some point Ukraine would have been included in NATO. Indeed over the horizon EU membership as well. By doing what Putin has he has pretty well stopped that. This event has made it clear to Washington. Don't even think. Thus we can call this pre-emptive. Had Russia taken such posture in 1990s NATO would still be parked on River Oder. But then Boris was too busy supping bottles of Vodka ... !











Finland says debate on NATO membership ‘will change’ after Russian invasion


Finish Prime Minister Sanna Marin on Thursday said Russia’s invasion of Ukraine will change the debate around NATO membership within her country.”Finland is not currently facing an immed…




thehill.com





Finland says debate on NATO membership 'will change' after Russian invasion​
Finish Prime Minister Sanna Marin on Thursday said Russia’s invasion of Ukraine will change the debate around NATO membership within her country.

"Finland is not currently facing an immediate military threat, but it is also now clear that the debate on NATO membership in Finland will change," Marin said, YLE News reported.

Finland has been debating for months whether the country should apply for NATO membership, with Marin saying it would require broad support for the country to move forward with an application. 

Finland and Sweden, who are both not officially members of NATO, will be at a summit the alliance will host Friday.

Finland's president, Sauli Niinistö, condemned Russia’s attack and President Vladimir Putin, saying "the mask has now come off and only the cold face of war is visible,” according to YLE.

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## RescueRanger

Oldman1 said:


> I target the supply lines, more vulnerable less trained troops. Tanks and IFVs need ammos and fuel, without them, they are sitting ducks. War 101.


I know this is meant to fill people with pride and resolve, but Russians seeing this just recognize a Turkey Shoot.


----------



## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496947344297844739


----------



## dBSPL

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> So that means the Russians have reached Mariupol


Ukraine claim: the governor of Maripol (Ukraine) said that they defended the city and did not lose any land, just a few hours ago. But of course, it is one of the most critical cities for the Russian operation at the moment and there is a possibility that Russia will enter with its own army even if the militants fail. One of the cities that Putin named the past weeks was Maripol (while talking about a barrier against the NATO threat)


----------



## Trench Broom

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496944661256097793
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496946224762662915
> 
> This is where the fighting can turn very ugly


Putin will do as he did in Syria. Just flatten towns and cities. He won't be interested in house to house fighting.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Oldman1 said:


> I target the supply lines, more vulnerable less trained troops. Tanks and IFVs need ammos and fuel, without them, they are sitting ducks. War 101.




President Biden has been presented cyber attack options that would target Russian supply lines.


----------



## nang2

Folks, look at how the market behaves today. It is very funny. All major indexes in the north america have recovered and my company stock even jumped near 5%. The drop of Euro against US dollar also recovers a bit. Does that mean the war is proceeding smoothly so people don't expect it to drag on?

The oil price hike has also retreated.

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## Oldman1

RescueRanger said:


> I know this is meant to fill people with pride and resolve, but Russians seeing this just recognize a Turkey Shoot.


Tactics is similar to Gulf War 2, head straight for Baghdad quick but have long slow vulnerable supply lines targeted by Iraqis.

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496947859559796738


----------



## F-22Raptor

nang2 said:


> Folks, look at how the market behaves today. It is very funny. All major indexes in the north america have recovered and my company stock even jumped near 5%. The drop of Euro against US dollar also recovers a bit. Does that mean the war is proceeding smoothly so people don't expect it to drag on?
> 
> The oil price hike has also retreated.




Buy low

Everyone knows the markets are massively oversold.


----------



## dBSPL

Has anyone shared the video where cigarettes are given to punished Ukrainian prisoners yet?

If only the Russian commanders had briefed the troops a little on the principles of the Geneva Convention before the operation... They started committing war crimes from day one.

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## The Eagle

Oldman1 said:


> So what about Vietnam war or Gulf War 2?



Nations destroyed while US/West achieved their objectives... Nations destroyed indeed. Did US win Vietnam? Gulf on fire still and that was the objective. No military victory. No WMDs in Iraq, you see. Objectives were everywhere my friend. Installing the western style democracy and that's it. Here, democracy means puppets and inject western culture/values into a society which has their own history. Sigh.

All of NATO Vs Iraq. Alas. None of invaded countries could match US power and you call it victory. NATO was supposed to stop Russia. Even in Syria, they are unchallenged.

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## lastofthepatriots

dBSPL said:


> Has anyone shared the video where cigarettes are given to punished Ukrainian prisoners yet?
> 
> If only the Russian commanders had briefed the troops a little on the principles of the Geneva Convention before the operation... They started committing war crimes from day one.


Link me please


----------



## nang2

F-22Raptor said:


> Buy low
> 
> Everyone knows the markets are massively oversold.


It is definitely not low enough. It is still 9% over a year ago.


----------



## Trench Broom

Falcon29 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496947859559796738


News since retracted I believe. Fight still ongoing.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496710954146578437


----------



## GumNaam

ghazi52 said:


> Biden says Putin 'has much larger ambitions'​In his remarks at the White House, President Biden also said that he believes Vladimir Putin "has much larger ambitions" that go far beyond Ukraine's borders.
> 
> "He wants to, in fact, re-establish the former Soviet Union," Biden said. "That's what this is about".
> 
> "His ambitions are completely contrary to the place where the rest of the world has arrived," he added.
> 
> Additionally, Biden said that sanctions against Putin personally "are still on the table" as a possible option in addition to those already announced against Russia's economy and several individuals and entities.


biden is right...
Russia to america: our larger ambition is to "Put*in*" ur*anus*!

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## Iron Shrappenel

The Eagle said:


> Why should I justify Ukraine Attack? Putin is not paying me for propaganda. I highlighted that how several reasons are there for Russia to do so.
> 
> At-least, the provided the helmet.


There is no other reason than Ukraine joining NATO. All other are face savings in one form or another IMO. 
The Germans offered helmets... Doubt the Ukrainians accepted them..




__





Redirect Notice






www.google.com




Haven't found an article of the deliveries. 
Not that I blame of you propaganda but rather pushing that narrative. I've seen a more pro russian sentiment on PDF with respect to current developments... It raises questions in my mind regarding not only Pakistani upgrades of T80-UDs but also the possible acquisition of T-929 and TFX program ( as the engine for TFX was also in collaboration with the Ukrainians... Correct me if I'm wrong)... Moreover most of our Soviet era equipment was bought from Ukraine no ? We also bring in a lot of agro imports from Ukraine ( wheat, barley, corn etc ) I'll share an article here;








Pakistan in firing line of a Ukraine-Russia war


PESHAWAR – The potential for a Russia-Ukraine war is already buffeting Pakistan as local prices of energy, food, commodities, steel and semiconductor chips soar. The conflict may also delay the rep…




asiatimes.com




The engine upgrade for Al-Khalid was also coming from Ukraine....


----------



## Oldman1

The Eagle said:


> Nations destroyed while US/West achieved their objectives... Nations destroyed indeed. Did US win Vietnam? Gulf on fire still and that was the objective. No military victory. No WMDs in Iraq, you see. Objectives were everywhere my friend. Installing the western style democracy and that's it. Here, democracy means puppets and inject western culture/values into a society which has their own history. Sigh.
> 
> All of NATO Vs Iraq. Alas. None of invaded countries could match US power and you call it victory. NATO was supposed to stop Russia. Even in Syria, they are unchallenged.


Did Russia achieve its objectives when they invaded Afghanistan during the 80s?


----------



## jamal18

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496944661256097793
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496946224762662915
> 
> This is where the fighting can turn very ugly



Smells of desperation. Giving weapons to people who have no training, organization or tactics?

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## FuturePAF

An Indian (I’m assuming) journalist asked Biden at today’s press conference where India stands via a vi being fully on board with the US stance on Russia and Biden responded as he clutched his binder “we are in consultation with India today, we haven’t resolved that completely”

Which to me indicates India trying to have it both ways. As can be seen in the following Indian discussion:






The Indian journalist interjected India more prominently into this crisis (to India’s determent) A real test of the Quad.

Got to love Indian egos getting them into trouble.



Falcon29 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496947859559796738


Ukrainian counter offensive or a minor action by just local troops?

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## Trench Broom

Shouldn't the Ukrainians have been busy setting up cells/hit squads in Russia? I mean they didn't bother acquiring missiles, haven't bothered with underground tunnels and guerrilla style hit and run infrastructure. Just sat there waiting for Russia to invade. Setting up cells in Russia would have been quite easy. Blend in, speak the language etc

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## RescueRanger

lastofthepatriots said:


> A lot of Kavkazi are white skin but they are still called churka. My cousin being half Pakistani faced this word a lot in his youth even though he has white skin. He told me it was mostly used in his early school days, but nobody really says it as adults unless you come across a drunk.



I am sorry to hear that your cousin faced this, as it is the mountain jew people are seen as outsiders in the Balkans, sad state of affairs. Churka which is mainly a Russian word and the Slavic phrase is Chorky, in Slavic countries because they have a higher number of Roma, Moldovans and Armenians, using tsygan against a person of color is like labelling someone as "sub-human".

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## lastofthepatriots

FuturePAF said:


> An Indian (I’m assuming) journalist asked Biden at today’s press conference where India stands via a vi being fully on board with the US stance on Russia and Biden responded as he clutched his binder “we are in consultation with India today, we haven’t resolved that completely”
> 
> Which to me indicates India trying to have it both ways. The Indian journalist interjected India more prominently into this crisis. A real test of the Quad.
> 
> 
> Good going Ukraine



Bhartis are always dhobi ka kutta. What they perceive as clever is actually considered to be cowardly and weasel like. It’s going to catch up to them in the end.

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## kingQamaR

This could be a serious mistake on Putin's part.....if he loses the support he craves internally and from the Russian people he is doomed!


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496817103340462084


----------



## Falcon29

Trench Broom said:


> News since retracted I believe. Fight still ongoing.


I think this is a new update.


----------



## Abid123

dBSPL said:


> largest nuclear power alliance.


"Largest nuclear power alliance"🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## lastofthepatriots

RescueRanger said:


> I am sorry to hear that your cousin faced this, as it is the mountain jew people are seen as outsiders in the Balkans, sad state of affairs. Churka which is mainly a Russian word and the Slavic phrase is Chorky, in Slavic countries because they have a higher number of Roma, Moldovans and Armenians, using tsygan against a person of color is like labelling someone as "sub-human".



My cousin is from western Ukraine and said all Chechen, dagestanis, azeri, Armenians, and Georgians are called churka. Maybe the term has evolved.

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## Patriot forever

nang2 said:


> Folks, look at how the market behaves today. It is very funny. All major indexes in the north america have recovered and my company stock even jumped near 5%. The drop of Euro against US dollar also recovers a bit. Does that mean the war is proceeding smoothly so people don't expect it to drag on?
> 
> The oil price hike has also retreated.



Sanctions of not much significance.

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## RescueRanger

lastofthepatriots said:


> My cousin is from western Ukraine and said all Chechen, dagestanis, azeri, Armenians, and Georgians are called churka. Maybe the term has evolved.


Agreed, and it's such a shame. I visited Russia and Bulgaria in 2008 so I know the challenges faced by people of color in this part of the world

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## Trench Broom

kingQamaR said:


> This could be a serious mistake on Putin's part.....if he loses the support he craves internally and from the Russian people he is doomed!


Don't underestimate how much Russians love him. I recently spoke with a Russian and they speak about him like you would speak about God. However, if Russian body bags start coming home thick and fast, he might lose some supports. If this is an easy invasion, he will be an even bigger god to Russians.


----------



## HAIDER

FuturePAF said:


> An Indian (I’m assuming) journalist asked Biden at today’s press conference where India stands via a vi being fully on board with the US stance on Russia and Biden responded as he clutched his binder “we are in consultation with India today, we haven’t resolved that completely”
> 
> Which to me indicates India trying to have it both ways. The Indian journalist interjected India more prominently into this crisis (to India’s determent) A real test of the Quad.
> 
> Got to love Indian egos getting them into trouble.
> 
> 
> Ukrainian counter offensive or a minor action by just local troops?


Silly journalist ...Biden paused and replied: O yeah....that B**** to playing both sides..

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## Falcon29

FuturePAF said:


> Ukrainian counter offensive or a minor action by just local troops?


Not sure, but they were countering an Russian airborne division:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496949071810027532


----------



## dBSPL

jamal18 said:


> Smells of desperation. Giving weapons to people who have no training, organization or tactics?


Standard civil defense practice Every country in the world has such a plan and has warehouses in its cities. The country is invading by military power.

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## The Eagle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496945864383868934
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496946513037381635



Seems like US is sitting in the box and commentary continues while viewers can understand as well.

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## nufix

Falcon29 said:


> Not sure, but they were countering an Russian airborne division:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496949071810027532



Hoping for photos or videos. The Russian sides provided so many proves of their successes and yet Ukrainians only provided words from some random people

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## RescueRanger

nufix said:


> Hoping for photos or videos. The Russian sides provided so many proves of their successes and yet Ukrainians only provided words from some random people


There was a video of women buying pump action shotguns on the telegram channel, i'll try to find it again.


----------



## Deino

Was this already posted?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496902221438595085

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## dBSPL

Falcon29 said:


> Not sure, but they were countering an Russian airborne division:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496949071810027532




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496951669904527361

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## HAIDER

Putin pledges to 'de-Nazify' Ukraine, which is led by a non-Nazi Jewish president​








Putin pledges to 'de-Nazify' Ukraine, which is led by a non-Nazi Jewish president






theweek.com







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496832644990050307

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## F-22Raptor

The Eagle said:


> Seems like US is sitting in the box and commentary continues while viewers can understand as well.



The US was never going to defend Ukraine. We've known this for months.


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

jamal18 said:


> Smells of desperation. Giving weapons to people who have no training, organization or tactics?


What did you expect bro ? They won't even give a fight ? Of course they are desperate ! They have two of their neighbors attacking them from 3 sides !


----------



## RescueRanger

Deino said:


> Was this already posted?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496902221438595085


Nope, thank you for sharing.

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## kingQamaR

Trench Broom said:


> Don't underestimate how much Russians love him. I recently spoke with a Russian and they speak about him like you would speak about God. However, if Russian body bags start coming home thick and fast, he might lose some supports. If this is an easy invasion, he will be an even bigger god to Russians.



I don't think they had any power to stop him. No matter what they say, the Russian elections are not democratic


----------



## The Eagle

F-22Raptor said:


> President Biden has been presented cyber attack options that would target Russian supply lines.



That will be treated as an attack and not a sanction.

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## Indus Pakistan

Oldman1 said:


> Finland says debate on NATO membership ‘will change’ after Russian invasion
> 
> 
> Finish Prime Minister Sanna Marin on Thursday said Russia’s invasion of Ukraine will change the debate around NATO membership within her country.”Finland is not currently facing an immed…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thehill.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finland says debate on NATO membership 'will change' after Russian invasion​
> Finish Prime Minister Sanna Marin on Thursday said Russia’s invasion of Ukraine will change the debate around NATO membership within her country.
> 
> "Finland is not currently facing an immediate military threat, but it is also now clear that the debate on NATO membership in Finland will change," Marin said, YLE News reported.
> 
> Finland has been debating for months whether the country should apply for NATO membership, with Marin saying it would require broad support for the country to move forward with an application.
> 
> Finland and Sweden, who are both not officially members of NATO, will be at a summit the alliance will host Friday.
> 
> Finland's president, Sauli Niinistö, condemned Russia’s attack and President Vladimir Putin, saying "the mask has now come off and only the cold face of war is visible,” according to YLE.


Makes little differance. Finland already is de facto part of NATO architecture. Israel is good example of a country that in practice is proably closer to US then even most NATO members. Ukraine is differant. This was a country within Russian sphere of influence but then began to slip into the clutches of Washington.

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## kingQamaR

Needs the Russain people to stand up to this regime but unfortunately they can't due to the repercussions they would face - the red bear is back. Ordinary people in both countries will suffer due to this archaic leader

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## RescueRanger

Indus Pakistan said:


> Makes little differance. Finland already is de facto part of NATO architecture. Israel is good example of a country that in practice is proably closer to US then even most NATO members. Ukraine is differant. This was a country within Russian sphere of influence but then began to slip into the clutches of Washington.


Ukraine got the Georgia treatment.

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## Englishman

Trench Broom said:


> Wow, that is amazing that for 8 years since Crimea they haven't invested in missiles. Sad.
> 
> 
> The logic is, if he expands westwards he encounters more NATO nations. So his excuse for invasion is bogus. Ukraine isn't in NATO and discussions on this had basically ended.
> So Russia takes Ukraine and all of a sudden, it has NATO members on its borders. Guess what Russia needs to do then for 'security'....take out Poland etc.



As a supporter of the terrorist state of Israel
Whats your problem with Russia annexing land they claim belongs to his people?


Trench Broom said:


> Shouldn't the Ukrainians have been busy setting up cells/hit squads in Russia? I mean they didn't bother acquiring missiles, haven't bothered with underground tunnels and guerrilla style hit and run infrastructure. Just sat there waiting for Russia to invade. Setting up cells in Russia would have been quite easy. Blend in, speak the language etc



Ah I see
Palestinian style resistance 

Sounds good 👍 

Check mate and have a nice day

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## dBSPL

20 February

Kremlin: "Allegations that Russia will invade Ukraine are a provocation"

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov:

▪️"Let us remind you, Russia has never attacked anyone in its history. Russia is the last country that would want to use the word war."

➡️February 24: Russia launched the invasion


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496954223950508034

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## Indus Pakistan

kingQamaR said:


> I don't think they had any power to stop him. No matter what they say, the Russian elections are not democratic


No less than in UK.


Trench Broom said:


> Don't underestimate how much Russians love him.


Agreed. Russians as people tend to unify behind strong leaders. And more so they tend to stick with them through thick and thin. This also applies to Turks, Germans and we have examples of Stalin, Erdogan, Kemal Mustafa.

Pakistani's, Iraqi's etc are opposite. The public could be treating their leader like demigod but next minute flip in other direction. Putin could go to war and lose 10,000s but Russia as a whole will stick with him.

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## F-22Raptor

The Eagle said:


> That will be treated as an attack and not a sanction.




The US has a carrier group in the Med, with a dozen cruiser/destroyers. That's 1,200 Vertical Launch Cells.

Also an SSGN with 154 Tomahawks. And a s*** ton of fighters and bombers in Europe. 

The US would roll Russia. Its why Russia doesn't touch the Baltics.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496949235572514817


----------



## The Eagle

Iron Shrappenel said:


> There is no other reason than Ukraine joining NATO. All other are face savings in one form or another IMO.
> The Germans offered helmets... Doubt the Ukrainians accepted them..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Redirect Notice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't found an article of the deliveries.
> Not that I blame of you propaganda but rather pushing that narrative. I've seen a more pro russian sentiment on PDF with respect to current developments... It raises questions in my mind regarding not only Pakistani upgrades of T80-UDs but also the possible acquisition of T-929 and TFX program ( as the engine for TFX was also in collaboration with the Ukrainians... Correct me if I'm wrong)... Moreover most of our Soviet era equipment was bought from Ukraine no ? We also bring in a lot of agro imports from Ukraine ( wheat, barley, corn etc ) I'll share an article here;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan in firing line of a Ukraine-Russia war
> 
> 
> PESHAWAR – The potential for a Russia-Ukraine war is already buffeting Pakistan as local prices of energy, food, commodities, steel and semiconductor chips soar. The conflict may also delay the rep…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asiatimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The engine upgrade for Al-Khalid was also coming from Ukraine....



Nobody is pushing for narrative. This has been discussed that what Russia believe, Putin said and what media reported. Only a fool will exaggerate anything. You said they sent helmets and I said they can only do so. There was only one news on Twitter about that.

Indeed, Russia openly warned everyone and Ukraine precisely to avoid this NATO adventure. Have you read all the posts in this thread? Go back and read as exactly this is what being discussed. Then came different points after Putin several statements.

You are merely misunderstanding things and may be, seeing incorrectly. PM was in Russia and returned if it had to do with anything about Ukraine or TFX etc. Calm down. Pakistan has no role or side in this conflict.

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## jamal18

Indus Pakistan said:


> Makes little differance. Finland already is de facto part of NATO architecture. Israel is good example of a country that in practice is proably closer to US then even most NATO members. Ukraine is differant. This was a country within Russian sphere of influence but then began to slip into the clutches of Washington.


I believe Sweden and Austria fit that description as well. Not members, but _de facto _part of the alliance.

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## Aslan

Turkey should try to do what the Americans did in ww2

Offer every Ukrainian engineer, working on tanks, engines, and any other useful project, offer them safety and evacuate them to turkey.

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## RescueRanger

ℹ️ Expect the price of Wheat, Oil and Gas to increase globally.

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## Mandalorian_CA



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## jamal18

Aslan said:


> Turkey should try to do what the Americans did in ww2
> 
> Offer every Ukrainian engineer, working on tanks, engines, and any other useful project, offer them safety and evacuate them to turkey.


Are you sure they need them?


----------



## Indus Pakistan

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496949235572514817


Freedom - that is one word in the English language that has been abused beyond redemption. Obama should be more concerned about freedom that is visited upon his fellow Negroes then Ukraine.

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## The Eagle

Oldman1 said:


> Did Russia achieve its objectives when they invaded Afghanistan during the 80s?



First if all, it was USSR and not Russia. And, if you understand that then you will get answer as well.
Let the Putin get free from this conflict, I will ask in person or at-least arrange a conference call for you. You are throwing questions like I am paid for your Tuition and education. Do you even consider to understand objectives means? Indeed, USSR didn't achieve anything and in-fact, returned in broken manners.

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## sur

lastofthepatriots said:


> Kadyrov’s dogs are nothing to worry about. Last time they came in 2015 half of them left in shoppers(plastic bags) and the other half ran away.
> 
> Plus* the Ukrainians have Sheikh Mansur’s men(real chechens) fighting for them*. They are the actual battle hardened veterans from the wars in Chechnya and they want russian blood.
> 
> This is them:


Following post shows Chechens fighting for Russia...

So are there Chechens in both militaries I guess?



Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496925642520088588
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496926905597054976

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## RescueRanger

Mandalorian_CA said:


> View attachment 818349


Jokes aside the situation is very real:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496761597267570689

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496780241980870656


----------



## jamal18

Trench Broom said:


> Could you try to not pollute this thread with your Islamist obsession over a fabricated entity? keep the fairy tales of 'palestine', Narnia, Neverland etc to the appropriate forums. Thanks.


It's Israel that's fabricated.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496923683243593729What is your opinion on this? @lastofthepatriots

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## Aslan

jamal18 said:


> Are you sure they need them?


Never say never 

And didn't the turks try to buy from Ukraine or partner up or something like that on the heli engines and the gov vetoed it. 

So I guess the answer would be yes.

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## Patriot forever

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496949235572514817



The major reason for inflation is the US Fed policies. This fiasco is just used as a scapegoat for political reasons. ( Not that this war will not uptick inflation but its like adding a liter in a bottle which already holds 10).


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

Indus Pakistan said:


> Freedom - that is one word in the English language that has been abused beyond redemption. Obama should be more concerned about freedom that is visited upon his fellow Negroes then Ukraine.


The West truly is appalling. They have made noble words like "freedom" and "democracy" disgusting. They've turned them into curse words.

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## Trench Broom

Patriot forever said:


> The major reason for inflation is the US Fed policies. This fiasco is just used as a scapegoat for political reasons. ( Not that this war will not uptick inflation but its like adding a liter in a bottle which already holds 10).


Actually it's Biden that caused inflation by printing money through the Fed and spending trillions he doesn't have.


----------



## The Eagle

Deino said:


> Was this already posted?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496902221438595085



Russian says 2 SU-27s and 2 SU-24 of Ukraine lost. 1 SU-27 was destroyed on ground and others were shot down.

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## ZeEa5KPul

Murica

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496872249600581635

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## Indus Pakistan

jamal18 said:


> I believe Sweden and Austria fit that description as well. Not members, but _de facto _part of the alliance.


Throw in Ireland, Switzeland, Iceland as well.

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## The Eagle

F-22Raptor said:


> The US was never going to defend Ukraine. We've known this for months.



Don't say that. Ukrainians were promised with support.


----------



## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496957510846193668


----------



## Mandalorian_CA

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Murica
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496872249600581635



those chicken wings are fingir lickin good


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

The Eagle said:


> Nobody is pushing for narrative. This has been discussed that what Russia believe, Putin said and what media reported. Only a fool will exaggerate anything. You said they sent helmets and I said they can only do so. There was only one news on Twitter about that.
> 
> Indeed, Russia openly warned everyone and Ukraine precisely to avoid this NATO adventure. Have you read all the posts in this thread? Go back and read as exactly this is what being discussed. Then came different points after Putin several statements.
> 
> You are merely misunderstanding things and may be, seeing incorrectly. PM was in Russia and returned if it had to do with anything about Ukraine or TFX etc. Calm down. Pakistan has no role or side in this conflict.


Pakistan having no role or side is one thing.... Having stake is totally another... I'm trying to discuss that in particular. There will be implications of Invasion on Ukraine.... And from what it seems upto now Russians are going all in.... Let alone upgrading our previous fleet.. I'm worried about the upkeep of those Ukrainian engines... As far as I know we can't even rebuild pistons.... Let's hope for the best though...


----------



## Khanate

FuturePAF said:


> An Indian (I’m assuming) journalist asked Biden at today’s press conference where India stands via a vi being fully on board with the US stance on Russia and Biden responded as he clutched his binder “we are in consultation with India today, we haven’t resolved that completely”
> 
> Which to me indicates India trying to have it both ways. The Indian journalist interjected India more prominently into this crisis (to India’s determent) A real test of the Quad.
> 
> Got to love Indian egos getting them into trouble.
> 
> 
> Ukrainian counter offensive or a minor action by just local troops?




Saw the presser live.

Let me tell you, there are some real questions being asked about India behind closed door.

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## RescueRanger

Kiev: Explosions continue well into the night -

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496955683467628557
Pakistani student trapped in Kiev:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496945841512534016

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## khail007

Oldman1 said:


> Did Russia achieve its objectives when they invaded Afghanistan during the 80s?



USSR took 10 years to learn while USA/NATO took 20 years to learn - see that was the difference in achievements of objectives

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## The Eagle

F-22Raptor said:


> The US has a carrier group in the Med, with a dozen cruiser/destroyers. That's 1,200 Vertical Launch Cells.
> 
> Also an SSGN with 154 Tomahawks. And a s*** ton of fighters and bombers in Europe.
> 
> The US would roll Russia. Its why Russia doesn't touch the Baltics.



This is like "We will take actions if Russia touches Ukraine. Le Ukraine is having a bloodbath and US mighty power stays come to Baltic. 

Putin said that "Those who intervene will face consequence like never in history" and this was the first marker being set and none dares to touch except for statements and sanctions.

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## RescueRanger

Russian forces have set up check posts in Ukraine:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496932606692442113


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496955582254825478


----------



## Iñigo

Colonel Douglas McGregor

*COL. DOUGLAS MACGREGOR: (...)*_The first thing we have to do is acknowledge that Putin's basic point, not just his point, the Russian government’s point, which they’ve made for 25 years, is valid. They don’t want U.S. forces and missiles and NATO troops immediately across the border in eastern Ukraine. Absolutely. We didn’t want them in Cuba, he doesn’t want them in eastern Ukraine. We should acknowledge that. Stop pretending it’s a nonissue. It is a major issue for them. Let’s acknowledge it and then let’s get down to business and tell them fine, our concern at this point is we don’t want you to proceed west towards the polish border over the Dnieper River in Ukraine."_

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## RescueRanger

The video widely shared on social media and WhatsApp purportedly showing a Russian Mig 29 being shutdown has been debunked:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496863799529324550


----------



## F-22Raptor

The Eagle said:


> This is like "We will take actions if Russia touches Ukraine. Le Ukraine is having a bloodbath and US mighty power stays come to Baltic.
> 
> Putin said that "Those who intervene will face consequence like never in history" and this was the first marker being set and none dares to touch except for statements and sanctions.




I'm talking about capability, not geopolitics. 


I'm just saying the US has the capability to fire huge amounts of precision guided munitions on Russian targets and within minutes. The US also has ridiculous battlespace awareness and targeting capability.

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## The Eagle

RescueRanger said:


> Jokes aside the situation is very real:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496761597267570689
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496780241980870656



Almost, 1000 Pakistani students were also there. Don't know about current situation. May be airlifted by any friendly country but waiting for confirmation.

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## Inception-06

Oldman1 said:


> Ukrainian. The dead troops are Russian.



dead troops are Ukraine, see at the and of the Video the Russian soldier with white marking, for friend or foe identification!

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## Tamerlane

jamal18 said:


> Will somebody explain the end game?
> 
> So Russia will be running a country of 50 million Ukrainians who hate them with years of counter insurgency?
> 
> Some one tell me because I don't understand.



--Russia will conquer Ukraine and stabilize it.
--They will install a pro-Russia president
--The new ruler will sign a bunch of agreements with Russia
------Ukraine will never join NATO
------Russians in Ukraine will be protected
-----Some Russian majority territories may become semi-autonomous
-----Recognize Crimea as part of Russia
--After that Russian forces will withdraw, apart from some for training

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## WinterFangs

Inception-06 said:


> dead troops are Ukraine, see at the and of the Video the Russian soldier with white marking, for friend or foe identification!


Yes they are Ukrainian, there’s a longer video where you see the Ukrainian flag on their left arm, also the video is from 2014

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496960542048759821

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496960817434357761

Javelins giving Russia hell

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## ZeEa5KPul

RescueRanger said:


> The video widely shared on social media and WhatsApp purportedly showing a Russian Mig 29 being shutdown has been debunked:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496863799529324550


Ukrainian Twitter disinformation really is something else. They give Indians a run for their money. If what they posted was true then they've already killed 5x the Russian population.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Tamerlane said:


> --Russia will conquer Ukraine and stabilize it.
> --They will install a pro-Russia president
> --The new ruler will sign a bunch of agreements with Russia
> ------Ukraine will never join NATO
> ------Russians in Ukraine will be protected
> -----Some Russian majority territories may become semi-autonomous
> -----Recognize Crimea as part of Russia
> --After that Russian forces will withdraw, apart from some for training



Nah.. Not seeing this materializing atleast for decades..

If anyone of you heard putin's speech you will know that this operation is limited to conquering parts of Ukraine because Putin knows he can't just eat off all of Ukraine in this one go but in bits and pieces hence this Ukraine campaign will come to conclusion after 3 rounds of fighting and this round being the 1 first of 3 and all 3 rounds will by average have a pause of 10-12 years meaning the last 3 round could be fought in mid 2040s each round of fighting splitting Ukraine into 3 equal parts like how you cut a cake

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## HaMoTZeMaS

dBSPL said:


> Russia screwed. Even If you wanna sell the whole Ukraine, it won't be worth that much.
> 
> I still don't understand how Putin made such a mistake.


sometime you have to choose between Money and Respect


----------



## The Eagle

F-22Raptor said:


> I'm talking about capability, not geopolitics.
> 
> 
> I'm just saying the US has the capability to fire huge amounts of precision guided munitions on Russian targets and within minutes. The US also has ridiculous battlespace awareness and targeting capability.



And my point was that disrupting internet in Russia will be a cyber attack and an attack on Russia. For which, Putin has already said something not very nice, for those who intervenes. The capability will be seen later but, world will be on fire already. Hence, US will put sanctions only and only that.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496951654645747723


----------



## HaMoTZeMaS

dBSPL said:


> Intelligence official: Russia has complete air sovereignty over Ukraine.
> 
> The army leg of the Kiev operation could begin at any time.


some are posting that Drones taking out armed columns of russian.. How if russia hold control of air

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## ZeEa5KPul

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496951654645747723


^ See what I'm saying about Twitter disinformation.

By the way, I just got off the phone with an American diplomat who said this is all America's fault. Source: Trust me, bro.

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## nufix

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496951654645747723


Another wall of words with no evidence to show for. Nobody in the Ukrainian army has a phone?

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496962165391118338


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

nufix said:


> Another wall of words with no evidence to show for. Nobody in the Ukrainian army has a phone?


They're busy going through footage of the Syria conflict to post new "Russia plane downed" videos. Give them a moment.

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## HaMoTZeMaS

JonAsad said:


> The indian reporter at the end of Biden speech, such a cringe as always..


indians do such a disservice to English that no other nation can

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496963285865975816


----------



## RescueRanger

ZeEa5KPul said:


> ^ See what I'm saying about Twitter disinformation.
> 
> By the way, I just got off the phone with an American diplomat who said this is all America's fault. Source: Trust me, bro.




This reminds me of those videos on twitter from ARMA III being presented as the Afghan resistance destroying Pakistani drones operated by ISI General MuchWalla and Colonel Bari chittrol from the fifth floor of the Serena Hotel in Kabul.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496963285865975816
Seeing reports that Russian advances have stalled


----------



## jamal18

Tamerlane said:


> --Russia will conquer Ukraine and stabilize it.
> --They will install a pro-Russia president
> --The new ruler will sign a bunch of agreements with Russia
> ------Ukraine will never join NATO
> ------Russians in Ukraine will be protected
> -----Some Russian majority territories may become semi-autonomous
> -----Recognize Crimea as part of Russia
> --After that Russian forces will withdraw, apart from some for training



Yes, but it didn't work too well in Afghanistan. The vast majority of Ukrainians hate them and there will be an insurgency.


----------



## The Eagle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496951654645747723



Always be careful 2ith self claimed sources
Be it Russia, Ukraine or this guy on the phone. Avoid spamming the Forum. Statements as such 28rh coverage on the war, needs to be posted with evidence and footage. In-case, such person is lying; he shall be held responsible for all those deaths where he said Russia is defeated or retreating. Such people makes it worst.

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## beast89

nufix said:


> Another wall of words with no evidence to show for. Nobody in the Ukrainian army has a phone?


Weiss is zionist propagandist, everything he says is calculated

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## dBSPL

While Europe burns, the agenda of France social media:

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496960372372385795


----------



## Khanate

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496817103340462084




President Zelenskyy reminds of Ashraf Ghani.

Ghani knew of the withdrawal but failed to prepare a strategy to defend the homeland.

President Zelenskyy was so caught up in the information war and economy that Russians are sitting 25KM away from Kyiv.

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## nufix

ZeEa5KPul said:


> They're busy going through footage of the Syria conflict to post new "Russia plane downed" videos. Give them a moment.


That’s a good one lol

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## dBSPL

13 Ukrainian border soldiers lost their lives in the battle for the “Zmіiny Island”

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## khail007

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496960542048759821
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496960817434357761
> 
> Javelins giving Russia hell



Sorry, this is not guerilla warfare, Russian and Ukrainian forces are facing each other. This news is only good for personal satisfaction. Javelins could hit some Russians' targets but could not capable to give hell.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496962165391118338

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496962758641922048

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## dBSPL

Moldova declared a 2-month state of emergency

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## HaMoTZeMaS

suppose if,
Pak have 143 vs india deployed 900
Will we end up so, like the ukrainians ?


RescueRanger said:


> Ukraine had 143 serviceable fighter aircraft in it's air force, Russia deployed over 900.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496964452062687368

Looks like the Russians did lose the airport


----------



## RescueRanger

AJN reporter claims that Ukrainian officials are stating they believe the Russians will carry out a bombing run on Kiev at 0300 hours local time.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496964939034120195


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496964905043468300

The Russians are trying to avoid urban warfare

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## RescueRanger

HaMoTZeMaS said:


> suppose if,
> Pak have 143 vs india deployed 900
> Will we end up so, like the ukrainians ?


What is the relevance of this? Lets stick to the topic and not make everything about India and Pakistan.

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## The Eagle

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496902812806098947

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## SaadH

Not sure why my fellow Americans and Western European countries getting their collective panties in a bunch on Russia occupying Ukraine when they support and bankroll Israelis doing the same with Palestinian lands on a daily basis.

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## HaMoTZeMaS

Falcon29 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496929026790899715
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496931634696028160


It give me chills and shivers to imagine the Do or Die state the two sides might be in, right now there

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## The Eagle

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496894060224823298


----------



## jamal18

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Nah.. Not seeing this materializing atleast for decades..
> 
> If anyone of you heard putin's speech you will know that this operation is limited to conquering parts of Ukraine because Putin knows he can't just eat off all of Ukraine in this one go but in bits and pieces hence this Ukraine campaign will come to conclusion after 3 rounds of fighting and this round being the 1 first of 3 and all 3 rounds will by average have a pause of 10-12 years meaning the last 3 round could be fought in mid 2040s each round of fighting splitting Ukraine into 3 equal parts like how you cut a cake


Sure? He is talking of the de-militarization of Ukraine and de-nazification.

You can't do that from Donetks. You have to control the entire country.


----------



## The Eagle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496964452062687368
> 
> Looks like the Russians did lose the airport




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496932790281060352


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496965665076523011


----------



## islamrules2020

Chechens must not fight, this is not our war, if anything Chechens must use this to overthrow Putin's dog Kadirov,

This is the end of Putin

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## Han Patriot

That Guy said:


> Don't know about rushing, but it's not a coincidence that Russia and China signed a massive gas deal before the invasion began.
> 
> China is the ultimate winner here.
> 
> Ukraine may lose its sovereignty. Russia won the war, but got badly beat up, and it's economy is in shambles.
> 
> Moving forward, I wouldn't be surprised if Moscow ends up capitulating to multiple Chinese demands and signing agreements that favor China more than they do Moscow.


Well that's life man. We did what we can to help them. The biggest strategic mistake the West ever did was to push Russia into our embrace.

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## Aesterix

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496944661256097793
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496946224762662915
> 
> This is where the fighting can turn very ugly


Yeah, more reasons for Putum to launch air raids on urban areas. Ukraine has gone full retard.


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496969058855567363
> 
> Destroy the runways


Breaking news: The Russians have retaken Hostomel.

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## RescueRanger

Private group of over 10,000 Polish nationals offering Ukrainian evacuees places to stay in their own homes.

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## Tamerlane

jamal18 said:


> Yes, but it didn't work too well in Afghanistan. The vast majority of Ukrainians hate them and there will be an insurgency.



America conquering Afghanistan is not the same as Russia conquering Ukraine. 

It is more like if Pakistan conquered Afghanistan. Many Afghans hate Pakistan, but many are okay with it. If Pakistan was rich (which it is not) and developed Afghanistan there won't be any insurgency. Especially if all foreign meddling and support was stopped.

The Ukraine situation will play out similar to how Russia subdued Chechnya. They devastated the place and then rebuilt it into a prosperous place. Now Grozny looks like an oil sheikhdom. They managed to do that even though Chechnya is Muslim.

Ukrainians are Slavic Christians and very similar to Russians. They will become a brotherly country.

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## Aesterix

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 818355
> 
> 
> Private group of over 10,000 Polish nationals offering Ukrainian evacuees places to stay in their own homes.


Lol.
How race plays its role. The same Poland recently removed refugees from Syria, by force.

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## lastofthepatriots

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496969670414553088
> 
> For those "needing" photos, the Russians are indeed taking losses.



I have many photos but they are too graphic.


----------



## WinterFangs

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496969241232240660


----------



## jamal18

Han Patriot said:


> Well that's life man. We did what we can to help them. The biggest strategic mistake the West ever did was to push Russia into our embrace.


Incidentally, while China disapproves of the Russian move, it regards the reason to be 'legitimate security concerns'. 

AKA Nato.

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## Tshering22

WinterFangs said:


> Should’ve put petrol in my car, ffs. Anyways I hope all Ukrainians stay safe, all we wish for is peace and not war. I hope this does to spiral out of control



Good to hear that, bud. Sadly, your PM BoJo is on a warpath and even more aggressive than the Americans. 

I wonder what is his obsession and dislike with Putin. Seems more like a way for more BP/ Shell oil to flow to the rest of EU while cutting out Russian O&G.


----------



## lastofthepatriots

Aesterix said:


> Lol.
> How race plays its role. The same Poland recently removed refugees from Syria, by force.



Polish hate Ukrainians but hate Russians more. Polish and ukraine have bloody history like India and Pakistan.

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## Han Patriot

jamal18 said:


> Incidentally, while China disapproves of the Russian move, it regards the reason to be 'legitimate security concerns'.
> 
> AKA Nato.


It's just lip service. We don't really condone open invasion of sovereign countries but Ukraine is the cradle of Russian civilization.


----------



## jamal18

Tamerlane said:


> America conquering Afghanistan is not the same as Russia conquering Ukraine.
> 
> It is more like if Pakistan conquered Afghanistan. Many Afghans hate Pakistan, but many are okay with it. If Pakistan was rich (which it is not) and developed Afghanistan there won't be any insurgency. Especially if all foreign meddling and support was stopped.
> 
> The Ukraine situation will play out similar to how Russia subdued Chechnya. They devastated the place and then rebuilt it into a prosperous place. Now Grozny looks like an oil sheikhdom. They managed to do that even though Chechnya is Muslim.
> 
> Ukrainians are Slavic Christians and very similar to Russians. They will become a brotherly country.


Interesting take. It was because of the insurgency threat that I thought this invasion would never take place.


----------



## Tshering22

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraine was NEVER a part of NATO. And the US was never going to defend Ukraine. Never



Then why the hell did you push them into the war by provoking them to make statements of joining NATO? This is the same weird-*** thing you did with Georgia back in 2008.

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## MultaniGuy

lastofthepatriots said:


> Polish hate Ukrainians but hate Russians more. Polish and ukraine have bloody history like India and Pakistan.


But Pakistan and India have little in common culturally.

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## WinterFangs

Tshering22 said:


> Good to hear that, bud. Sadly, your PM BoJo is on a warpath and even more aggressive than the Americans.
> 
> I wonder what is his obsession and dislike with Putin. Seems more like a way for more BP/ Shell oil to flow to the rest of EU while cutting out Russian O&G.


No one likes trumps twin brother here, him being pm has crippled the uk, brexit being one of his many mistakes, I just hope he doesn’t get more involved in Ukraine than we need to.

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## RescueRanger

Aesterix said:


> Lol.
> How race plays its role. The same Poland recently removed refugees from Syria, by force.


Absolutely, as the saying goes "if the face fits".


----------



## nufix

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496969670414553088
> 
> For those "needing" photos, the Russians are indeed taking losses.


A couple of destroyed trucks and it is evidence enough to claim victory?? 

Anyway, Nobody said Russia will not have its share of casualties.

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## jamal18

lastofthepatriots said:


> Polish hate Ukrainians but hate Russians more. Polish and ukraine have bloody history like India and Pakistan.


The Ukrainian Nationalists killed about 100,000 poles. Their great and revered leader is considered a war criminal in Poland.

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## F-22Raptor

jamal18 said:


> Interesting take. It was because of the insurgency threat that I thought this invasion would never take place.




It looks like up to this point, the Russians are terrified of urban warfare, and trying to avoid it completely. Because the Russians know the Ukrainians are armed with advanced small arms and anti armor weapons from the West.


----------



## sur

Sanctions from the West may not worry Putin: Policy strategist​*@5:28 = Ousting from SWIFT could have hurt Russia but West ain't doing that.*








Sanctions from the West may not worry Putin: Policy strategist


Greg Valliere, chief U.S. policy strategist of AGF Investments, joins BNN Bloomberg and says Putin anticipated sanctions and Russia is flush with cash. That's why he says there's no hope for improvement in terms of energy prices and expects slower economic growth to come in Europe. He also talks...




www.bnnbloomberg.ca






Russia’s crude exports are irreplaceable: Cornerstone Analytics founder​








Russia’s crude exports are irreplaceable: Cornerstone Analytics founder


Mike Rothman, founder of Cornerstone Analytics, joins BNN Bloomberg to discuss why he believes Russian crude exports being sanctioned are close to zero. He also notes that oil prices will likely stay elevated due to the supply and demand crunch.




www.bnnbloomberg.ca

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## lastofthepatriots

jamal18 said:


> The Ukrainian Nationalists killed about 100,000 poles. Their great and revered leader is considered a war criminal in Poland.



And the polish enslaved the Ukrainians. Like I said they have their own bloody history.


----------



## _Nabil_

More to do with religion than race


Aesterix said:


> Lol.
> How race plays its role. The same Poland recently removed refugees from Syria, by force.


----------



## jamal18

F-22Raptor said:


> It looks like up to this point, the Russians are terrified of urban warfare, and trying to avoid it completely. Because the Russians know the Ukrainians are armed with advanced small arms and anti armor weapons from the West.


I think because it is important to secure the main targets first, fighting in towns slows down the overall advance. 

Towns can be isolated and taken care of afterwards.

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## Tamerlane

jamal18 said:


> Interesting take. It was because of the insurgency threat that I thought this invasion would never take place.



The Russians will make Ukraine much better off than it was. There will be no insurgency.

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## Foinikas

Meanwhile NATO

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## FairAndUnbiased

It took weeks to reach Baghdad during the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Ukraine is far more powerful than Iraq so Russian progress is incredibly rapid.

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## nufix

sur said:


> Sanctions from the West may not worry Putin: Policy strategist​*@5:28 = Ousting from SWIFT could have hurt Russia but West ain't doing that.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sanctions from the West may not worry Putin: Policy strategist
> 
> 
> Greg Valliere, chief U.S. policy strategist of AGF Investments, joins BNN Bloomberg and says Putin anticipated sanctions and Russia is flush with cash. That's why he says there's no hope for improvement in terms of energy prices and expects slower economic growth to come in Europe. He also talks...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bnnbloomberg.ca
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia’s crude exports are irreplaceable: Cornerstone Analytics founder​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia’s crude exports are irreplaceable: Cornerstone Analytics founder
> 
> 
> Mike Rothman, founder of Cornerstone Analytics, joins BNN Bloomberg to discuss why he believes Russian crude exports being sanctioned are close to zero. He also notes that oil prices will likely stay elevated due to the supply and demand crunch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bnnbloomberg.ca



Germany is not ready for that. Germany had the chance to weather the rising energy prices in the second half of last year but it ended up doing nothing since the politics were too busy with elections and regime changes. What followed is a massive energy price spikes and a government that is absent.

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## Tshering22

FuturePAF said:


> Looks like it’s full scale war?
> 
> Considering how it looks, should PM Khan cut short the visit and head home? What is the protocol when a neutral party’s leader is visiting a country when war starts between the host and another nation?



He's far away as a state guest in the most secure part of Moscow. Given that Pakistan is as neutral in this as we are, he is completely safe and no one would want to change that.

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## jamal18

Ukrainian nuclear aspirations. It's said this tipped the argument for the Russians.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496965215879000070


----------



## Pappa Alpha

Looks like we are back to the 1930s


----------



## nufix

FairAndUnbiased said:


> It took weeks to reach Baghdad during the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Ukraine is far more powerful than Iraq so Russian progress is incredibly rapid.



My thoughts as well. Iraq was also ganged up by multiple countries and was already severely weakened after the gulf wars. 

The issue that I am seeing here is the lack of fighting spirit and readiness of the Ukrainian people. Iraqis on the other hands, quickly formed resistance groups that are independent from their government already before the shock and awe started.

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## damiendehorn2

Tamerlane said:


> America conquering Afghanistan is not the same as Russia conquering Ukraine.
> 
> It is more like if Pakistan conquered Afghanistan. Many Afghans hate Pakistan, but many are okay with it. If Pakistan was rich (which it is not) and developed Afghanistan there won't be any insurgency. Especially if all foreign meddling and support was stopped.
> 
> The Ukraine situation will play out similar to how Russia subdued Chechnya. They devastated the place and then rebuilt it into a prosperous place. Now Grozny looks like an oil sheikhdom. They managed to do that even though Chechnya is Muslim.
> 
> Ukrainians are Slavic Christians and very similar to Russians. They will become a brotherly country.


Doubt you actually know how much the Ukrainians hate the Russians. When you taste freedom, its hard to give it up.

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## Ali_Baba

HAIDER said:


> View attachment 818228
> 
> Military helicopters apparently Russian, fly over the outskirts of Kyiv, Ukraine Photograph: AP



Shocking - haven't the Ukranian's heard of MANPADs ??????

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## RescueRanger

*The UNHCR has announced it will stage a massive Refugee operation not seen since the 2015 EU migrant crisis, says it will deploy to Romania, Moldova and Poland, as an estimate 120.000 Ukrainian civilians flee their country from Russian attacks.*

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## Foinikas

This is a map of the Ukrainian Air Force...well from Wikipedia.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Why no SWIFT ban sanction will be imposed on Russia? Because Russia will declare WW3 if Swift ban is imposed on them.. It sounds like a joke but they can't impose that one because Russia will translate that into a real attack

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## Oublious

Faking Western world, they armed Pkk/YPG more then Ukrain. Faking Germany they didn't give Ukrain weapons but ypg  . Same goes forAmericans, they have radar systems and SAM system in Syria.

They should make news about this against BIDEN and Europe.


lol

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## Primus



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## Oublious

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Why no SWIFT ban sanction will be imposed on Russia? Because Russia will declare WW3 if Swift ban is imposed on them




they will do nothing like they do nothing against them in ukrain, this will really hard for them. Even China will not able to help them.

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## Primus

Foinikas said:


> This is a map of the Ukrainian Air Force...well from Wikipedia.
> 
> View attachment 818361


7th tactical air wing has been wiped out. Kinda crazy when you look at this map knowing that air wing doesnt exist today anymore

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496966982436065287


----------



## Tamerlane

damiendehorn2 said:


> Doubt you actually know how much the Ukrainians hate the Russians. When you taste freedom, its hard to give it up.



The West will fling its doors open for Ukrainians. They'll be fighting for their share of Ukrainians. Everyone wants pure white immigrants. The ones who don't like Russia can move to the West. The ones who stay behind will be okay with things.

A potential insurgent will have the choice between getting killed or moving to the West. They'll move to the West,

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## Ali_Baba

Shotgunner51 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496880446210289666



The Germans have been shameful - completely shameful for this Ukraine incident. We need to revisit Germany's place in the civilised demoncracies of the west and Nato ...

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## Foinikas

Huffal said:


> 7th tactical air wing has been wiped out. Kinda crazy when you look at this map knowing that air wing doesnt exist today anymore


Man how did the Russians destroy the Ukrainian Air Defence so fast and so easily?

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## Ali_Baba

The Eagle said:


> Moscow is willing to negotiate terms of surrender with Kiev regarding the ongoing Russian military offensive currently taking place in Ukraine, Kremlin Press Secretary Dmitry Peskov said on Thursday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia ready to negotiate with Ukraine – Kremlin
> 
> 
> Moscow is willing to negotiate with the leadership in Kiev, the Kremlin has said
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rt.com



The war has just started - this will go on for some time - the initial shock and awe phase is over - and the question for Russia is - is it all going to plan ... the Russians will start getting bogged down and the tide will turn against them..

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## Shotgunner51

FairAndUnbiased said:


> It took weeks to reach Baghdad during the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Ukraine is far more powerful than Iraq so Russian progress is *incredibly rapid*.


Yes, what we have witnessed in one day is enormous. This is also a real lesson for China-Pakistan defence planners, the next war will be incredibly high-intensity and fast-paced (measured in hours if not minutes, especially the early phases), all possible military/intel branches involved, fighting in multiple domains under one China-Pakistan joint theater command.

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## frequency

F-22Raptor said:


> NATO will grow even stronger in Europe, and Russia will now have a permanent enemy in Ukraine. RUssia doesn’t have the military capability to suppress Ukraine over the long term. Putin is hoping to oppress the Ukrainian people and that’s a huge assumption.
> 
> The Russian economy will also get wrecked.
> 
> Huge blunder for Putin and Russian long term prospects


It's cheaper to give up Ukraine to Russia just like Hong Kong gave up to China.

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## Abid123



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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496944945810259971

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## kingQamaR

Never underestimate fighting spirit vs size, just like the Americans in Vietnam


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

Shotgunner51 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496880446210289666


What about all that NATO unity, tho?

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## Stealth

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496977190059130886

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## Nevsky

Zelenskiy just said that he is ready to talk about Ukraine neutral staus with the RF. He said he asked all NATO leaders if they will take Ukrain in NATO, but they are too scared of the RF, thats what he said. Lets pray that this madness will come to an end soon.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496981951521173505

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496982558873374722

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496978425176899584
They did not surrender the island and resisted for 5 hours. all 13 soldiers died

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Nevsky said:


> Zelenskiy just said that he is ready to talk about Ukraine neutral staus with the RF. He said he asked all NATO leaders if they will take Ukrain in NATO, but they are too scared of the RF, thats what he said. Lets pray that this madness will come to an end soon.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496981951521173505
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496982558873374722


Now?!? By the by, Zelenski was a comedian by profession, and Putin a spy chief....

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## American Pakistani

Abid123 said:


> View attachment 818365


O bhai Kashmir kahan Gaya? Bilkul hi gayab.


----------



## Ali_Baba

dBSPL said:


> Russia screwed. Even If you wanna sell the whole Ukraine, it won't be worth that much.
> 
> I still don't understand how Putin made such a mistake.



Tactically Putin may get what he wants for a short while - strategically Russia and Putin are both royally f*cked. What will start now is the slow unwinding of the Russian economy and it wont stop until Russia has been degraded so much that it cannot attempt this kind of shit again ...

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## Sal12

Russia is clearly an aggressor here.

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## dBSPL

*Confirmed loses of both sides: *



Russia​​Tanks (1, of which destroyed: 1)​
1 T-80BVM: (1, destroyed)

Armoured Fighting Vehicles (5, of which destroyed: 3, captured: 2)​
3 MT-LB: (1, destroyed) (2, captured) (3, captured) 
1 MT-LB with ZU-23 AA gun: (1, destroyed)
1 9P149 Shturm-S ATGM carrier: (1, destroyed) 

Infantry Fighting Vehicles (1, of which captured: 1)​
1 BMP-2: (1, captured)

Mine-resistant ambush protected (MRAP) Vehicles (1, of which captured: 1)​
1 KamAZ-63968 Typhoon: (1, captured)
 
Infantry Mobility Vehicles (2, of which destroyed: 1, damaged: 1)​
2 GAZ Tigr-M: (1, destroyed) (2, damaged)
 
Engineering Vehicles (3, of which destroyed: 1, captured: 2)​
1 IMR-2 combat engineering vehicle: (1, destroyed)
1 TMM-3 bridge layer: (1, captured)
1 KamAZ-5350 with EOV-3523 excavator: (1, captured)

Surface-to-air missile systems (1, of which destroyed: 1)​
1 Tor-M2: (1, destroyed)

Aircraft (2, of which destroyed: 2)​
1 Su-25 strike aircraft: (1, destroyed)
1 An-26 transport aircraft: (1, destroyed)

Helicopters (2, of which destroyed: 1, damaged: 1)​
2 Ka-52 'Alligator': (1, destroyed) (2, damaged)
 
Trucks, Vehicles and Jeeps (9, of which destroyed: 1, damaged: 2, captured: 6)​
1 GAZ-66: (1, captured)
3 Ural-4320: (1, damaged) (2, captured) (3, captured)
5 KamAZ: (1, destroyed) (2, damaged) (3, captured) (4, with trailer, captured) (5, with ZU-23 AA gun, captured)
 

Ukraine​
​​Tanks (1, of which destroyed: 1)​
1 T-64BV: (1, destroyed)

Armoured Fighting Vehicles (2, of which abandoned: 1, captured: 1)​
1 BRM-1K: (1, captured)
1 MT-LBu: (1, damaged and abandoned)
​Infantry Fighting Vehicles (8, of which destroyed 3, abandoned: 3, captured: 2)​
4 BMP-1: (1, destroyed) (2, abandoned) (3, abandoned) (4, abandoned)
4 BTR-4: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, captured) (4, captured)
 
Armoured Personnel Carriers (1, of which abandoned: 1, captured: 1)​
2 BTR-70: (1, captured) (2, abandoned)
 
Infantry Mobility Vehicles (1, of which destroyed: 1)​
1 Kozak-2: (1, destroyed)
 
Self-Propelled Artillery (2, of which captured: 2)​
2 122mm 2S1 Gvozdika: (1, captured) (2, captured)
 
Surface-to-air missile systems (1, of which destroyed: 1)​
1 5P85D (launcher for S-300PS): (1, destroyed)
​​Radars (5, of which destroyed: 3, damaged: 2)​
1 P-14 'Tall King': (1, damaged)
1 P-35/37 'Bar Lock': (1, destroyed)
1 PRV-13 'Odd Pair': (1, destroyed)
2 1L22 'Parol': (1, destroyed) (2, damaged)
​Aircraft (2, of which destroyed: 2)​
1 Su-27 fighter aircraft: (1, destroyed)
1 An-26 transport aircraft: (1, destroyed)
 
Trucks, Vehicles and Jeeps (16, of which destroyed: 5, captured: 11)​
6 KrAZ-260: (1, destroyed) (2, captured) (3, captured) (4, captured) (5, captured) (6, captured)
1 ZiL-131: (1, destroyed)
1 Ural-375D: (1, captured)
1 KamAZ: (1, destroyed)
4 GAZ-66: (1, with 82mm 2B9 Vasilek mortar, destroyed) (2, captured) (3, captured) (4, captured)
1 UAZ-469: (1, captured)
2 Unknown truck: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed)

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## kingQamaR

Don't forget that Russian troops are just following orders and Ukrainian people are fighting for their homes, families, friends and land. The difference motivation is extreme and cannot be underestimated

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Ali_Baba said:


> Tactically Putin may get what he wants for a short while - strategically Russia and Putin are both royally f*cked. What will start now is the slow unwinding of the Russian economy and it wont stop until Russia has been degraded so much that it cannot attempt this kind of shit again ...



Any of this so-called sanctions against Russia is only bravado nothing more they fear Russia enough to not over-sanction it enough to give Russia reasons to even launch further expansion into NATO eastern European territories

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## HttpError

Tshering22 said:


> Good to hear that, bud. Sadly, your PM BoJo is on a warpath and even more aggressive than the Americans.
> 
> I wonder what is his obsession and dislike with Putin. Seems more like a way for more BP/ Shell oil to flow to the rest of EU while cutting out Russian O&G.



Maybe he wants to settle some old score with Russian Federation or Tsar? But will eventually end up ceeding more British Territory to Russia.


----------



## islamrules2020

Putin is going to fall, Russia is still nothing but a gas station with nukes and no real friends, 
Russia will be invaded by extreme left liberal "peace loving" zionists, the likes of angela and sholtz and macron and trudeau .... Europe is a Zionist Gay parade will reach Moscow over Putins dead body ,
the only power the can and will defeat the Army of "liberal zionist LGBTQ+ loving degenerate demonrats " is MUSLIMS,


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496975412571873282

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## HttpError

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496964905043468300
> 
> The Russians are trying to avoid urban warfare



LOL, Keyboard warrior go do something about as you were claiming some scenes of Avengers here.



islamrules2020 said:


> Putin is going to fall, Russia is still nothing but a gas station with nukes and no real friends,
> Russia will be invaded by extreme left liberal "peace loving" zionists, the likes of angela and sholtz and macron and trudeau .... Europe is a Zionist Gay parade will reach Moscow over Putins dead body ,
> the only power the can and will defeat the Army of "liberal zionist LGBTQ+ loving degenerate demonrats " is MUSLIMS,



Calm your titties down.

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## pkuser2k12

https://imgur.com/ZGjFDXJ




https://imgur.com/NJ98bLe

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## Primus

Foinikas said:


> Man how did the Russians destroy the Ukrainian Air Defence so fast and so easily?


The AD equipment used by the Ukrainians is pretty much the same tech as what the Russians are using except older. Russians know the ins and outs of the systems and thus know how to destroy them. Its how their s300 have been getting destroyed and its how their entire 7th tac air wing has been destroyed.

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## dBSPL

Sarajevo (Bosnia) municipality, tonight

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## F-22Raptor

Ali_Baba said:


> Tactically Putin may get what he wants for a short while - strategically Russia and Putin are both royally f*cked. What will start now is the slow unwinding of the Russian economy and it wont stop until Russia has been degraded so much that it cannot attempt this kind of shit again ...




Bingo


----------



## Irfan Baloch

what jet is that almost at the end?

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## casual

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496978425176899584
> They did not surrender the island and resisted for 5 hours. all 13 soldiers died


Exemplary job. They were true soldiers.

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## Foinikas

Huffal said:


> The AD equipment used by the Ukrainians is pretty much the same tech as what the Russians are using except older. Russians know the ins and outs of the systems and thus know how to destroy them. Its how their s300 have been getting destroyed and its how their entire 7th tac air wing has been destroyed.


Well yes,but still...

And where did all those Mig-29s and Su-27s go?


----------



## Abid123

Irfan Baloch said:


> what jet is that almost at the end?


Looks like a SU-25.....

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## Primus

dBSPL said:


> *Confirmed loses of both sides: *
> 
> 
> 
> Russia​​Tanks (1, of which destroyed: 1)​
> 1 T-80BVM: (1, destroyed)
> 
> Armoured Fighting Vehicles (5, of which destroyed: 3, captured: 2)​
> 3 MT-LB: (1, destroyed) (2, captured) (3, captured)
> 1 MT-LB with ZU-23 AA gun: (1, destroyed)
> 1 9P149 Shturm-S ATGM carrier: (1, destroyed)
> 
> Infantry Fighting Vehicles (1, of which captured: 1)​
> 1 BMP-2: (1, captured)
> 
> Mine-resistant ambush protected (MRAP) Vehicles (1, of which captured: 1)​
> 1 KamAZ-63968 Typhoon: (1, captured)
> 
> Infantry Mobility Vehicles (2, of which destroyed: 1, damaged: 1)​
> 2 GAZ Tigr-M: (1, destroyed) (2, damaged)
> 
> Engineering Vehicles (3, of which destroyed: 1, captured: 2)​
> 1 IMR-2 combat engineering vehicle: (1, destroyed)
> 1 TMM-3 bridge layer: (1, captured)
> 1 KamAZ-5350 with EOV-3523 excavator: (1, captured)
> 
> Surface-to-air missile systems (1, of which destroyed: 1)​
> 1 Tor-M2: (1, destroyed)
> 
> Aircraft (2, of which destroyed: 2)​
> 1 Su-25 strike aircraft: (1, destroyed)
> 1 An-26 transport aircraft: (1, destroyed)
> 
> Helicopters (2, of which destroyed: 1, damaged: 1)​
> 2 Ka-52 'Alligator': (1, destroyed) (2, damaged)
> 
> Trucks, Vehicles and Jeeps (9, of which destroyed: 1, damaged: 2, captured: 6)​
> 1 GAZ-66: (1, captured)
> 3 Ural-4320: (1, damaged) (2, captured) (3, captured)
> 5 KamAZ: (1, destroyed) (2, damaged) (3, captured) (4, with trailer, captured) (5, with ZU-23 AA gun, captured)
> 
> 
> Ukraine​
> ​​Tanks (1, of which destroyed: 1)​
> 1 T-64BV: (1, destroyed)
> 
> Armoured Fighting Vehicles (2, of which abandoned: 1, captured: 1)​
> 1 BRM-1K: (1, captured)
> 1 MT-LBu: (1, damaged and abandoned)
> ​Infantry Fighting Vehicles (8, of which destroyed 3, abandoned: 3, captured: 2)​
> 4 BMP-1: (1, destroyed) (2, abandoned) (3, abandoned) (4, abandoned)
> 4 BTR-4: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, captured) (4, captured)
> 
> Armoured Personnel Carriers (1, of which abandoned: 1, captured: 1)​
> 2 BTR-70: (1, captured) (2, abandoned)
> 
> Infantry Mobility Vehicles (1, of which destroyed: 1)​
> 1 Kozak-2: (1, destroyed)
> 
> Self-Propelled Artillery (2, of which captured: 2)​
> 2 122mm 2S1 Gvozdika: (1, captured) (2, captured)
> 
> Surface-to-air missile systems (1, of which destroyed: 1)​
> 1 5P85D (launcher for S-300PS): (1, destroyed)
> ​​Radars (5, of which destroyed: 3, damaged: 2)​
> 1 P-14 'Tall King': (1, damaged)
> 1 P-35/37 'Bar Lock': (1, destroyed)
> 1 PRV-13 'Odd Pair': (1, destroyed)
> 2 1L22 'Parol': (1, destroyed) (2, damaged)
> ​Aircraft (2, of which destroyed: 2)​
> 1 Su-27 fighter aircraft: (1, destroyed)
> 1 An-26 transport aircraft: (1, destroyed)
> 
> Trucks, Vehicles and Jeeps (16, of which destroyed: 5, captured: 11)​
> 6 KrAZ-260: (1, destroyed) (2, captured) (3, captured) (4, captured) (5, captured) (6, captured)
> 1 ZiL-131: (1, destroyed)
> 1 Ural-375D: (1, captured)
> 1 KamAZ: (1, destroyed)
> 4 GAZ-66: (1, with 82mm 2B9 Vasilek mortar, destroyed) (2, captured) (3, captured) (4, captured)
> 1 UAZ-469: (1, captured)
> 2 Unknown truck: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed)


Ukraine has lost more than 1 t64 tank. 

10 of them could be seen destroyed/abandoned by the Ukrainians in this video


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496836572418768896

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## dBSPL

Zelensky signed a decree on general mobilization.

Within a week, probably over 2 million Ukrainians will be recruited.

If Russia can't finish the job in a week, it will screwd. It has already screwed economically, but it seems things are not going well militarily either. On the other hand, various types of air defense systems will begin to enter from the western borders.

Ukraine seems to have survived the first 24-hour shock. If we think from the point of view of Russia, they should strike a very heavy military blow tonight and not allow the morale of Ukraine to recover.

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## casual

Irfan Baloch said:


> what jet is that almost at the end?


SU-25

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## Primus

Foinikas said:


> Well yes,but still...
> 
> And where did all those Mig-29s and Su-27s go?


Mig29s and su27 threat was neutralised within the first hour of the war. Remember all those airfields and air ports being bombed to heck? They cant take off. Only a few can, but they are being shot down

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## Foinikas

Irfan Baloch said:


> what jet is that almost at the end?


Su-25 I guess. Or L-39?


----------



## Irfan Baloch

Sal12 said:


> Russia is clearly an aggressor here.


Yanks and UK are clearly the provokers here.
kept expanding NATO beyond 1997 despite the promises to contrary. 
continued to arm Russian neighbors and eventually got what they wanted Putin to do eventually.
yes the fault lies with Putin for starting this war and not beating the Americans in their own game,.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496899438073159684

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## Tshering22

WinterFangs said:


> No one likes trumps twin brother here, him being pm has crippled the uk, brexit being one of his many mistakes, I just hope he doesn’t get more involved in Ukraine than we need to.



Well, he is your PM for now and has succeeded in distracting the UK. 

What are the chances of British forces sending covert ops teams to take our Russian area commanders? Too much of a stretch?


----------



## Pappa Alpha

Irfan Baloch said:


> what jet is that almost at the end?


Maybe SU-25

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496982559091134466

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## dBSPL

Zelensky: We lost 137 heroes


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## Ali_Baba

Falcon29 said:


> Not sure, but they were countering an Russian airborne division:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496949071810027532



They should now blow up the runway to stop the Russians from re-attempting to occupy it - it would form an airbridge to bring in reinforcements - Ukraine has no military need for it as its airforce not effective anymore and there is no value putting soldiers there to defend it ?

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## Gripen9

Irfan Baloch said:


> what jet is that almost at the end?


Su-25 Frogfoot CAS aircraft.

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## dBSPL

Some notes from Zelensky's public speech:


Today I asked 27 European leaders whether Ukraine would join NATO, I asked directly. Everyone is afraid to answer. They are not answering. But we are not afraid of anything. We are not afraid of Russia.


Now the fate of the country depends on our army and our people, on your wisdom and the great support of all friends of Ukraine.


I stay in the capital with my people, my family is in Ukraine. The enemy has chosen me as target #1 and my family as target #2.


Russia, attacked the entire territory of Ukraine by violating all law. And today our soldiers showed a very serious response. We lost 137 heroes.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496991566816329732

F-35 over Poland

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## lastofthepatriots

dBSPL said:


> Zelensky signed a decree on general mobilization.
> 
> Within a week, probably over 2 million Ukrainians will be recruited.
> 
> If Russia can't finish the job in a week, it will screwd. It has already screwed economically, but it seems things are not going well militarily either. On the other hand, various types of air defense systems will begin to enter from the western borders.
> 
> Ukraine seems to have survived the first 24-hour shock. If we think from the point of view of Russia, they should strike a very heavy military blow tonight and not allow the morale of Ukraine to recover.



They will continue aerial bombardment to try and break them, but I don’t think it’s going to work. After a week, I think the ruskis will go home. They don’t want to get bogged down in an insurgency.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496990502993940484


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## dBSPL

lastofthepatriots said:


> They will continue aerial bombardment to try and break them, but I don’t think it’s going to work. After a week, I think the ruskis will go home. They don’t want to get bogged down in an insurgency.


If Ukraine can resist out for a week, things may change. But can it?

Russia's only option right now is to finish this job quickly. Otherwise Ukraine becomes Syria 2.0.

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## Ali_Baba

WinterFangs said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496969241232240660



The Ukranian Prime Minister is so out of his depth - it is no longer funny.. this should have been done months ago - along with procurement of MANPADS, SAMs, etc ..



dBSPL said:


> If Ukraine can resist out for a week, things may change. But can it?
> 
> Russia's only option right now is to finish this job quickly. Otherwise Ukraine becomes Syria 2.0.



Totally agree - Ukraine needs to get over the initial shock and awe and then go for a hit-and-run war and grind the russians down.

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## lastofthepatriots

dBSPL said:


> If Ukraine can resist out for a week, things may change. But can it?
> 
> Russia's only option right now is to finish this job quickly. Otherwise Ukraine becomes Syria 2.0.



Russians talked a big game but prematurely ejaculated. Already talking about using nuclear weapons ect.

GG ruskis


----------



## dBSPL

Ali_Baba said:


> Totally agree - Ukraine needs to get over the initial shock and awe and then go for a hit-and-run war and grind the russians down.


I could swear that Putin slapping some generals at the headquarter right now, but I can't prove it.

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## ziaulislam

Its over

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## HttpError

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496991566816329732
> 
> F-35 over Poland



Please stop making yourself look more stupid. Please!

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## Clutch




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## kingQamaR

They need to make the war as costly as possible for Russia and the West needs to help them to make that happen. The longer the war, the more problematic for Russia, especially when sanctions bite at the same time. It will come at a terrible cost for Ukraine, no doubt, but it is a huge country and difficult to control even with a large army. Ukraine becoming Russia's Afghanistan scenario is what the goal should be, with guerilla incursions and constant attacks.

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## Tamerlane

The main significance of this war is that Russia has finally given up trying to be friends with the Anglo-Zionist controlled West. It's a huge change for Russia that, for all of its history, has been trying to be accepted as a mainstream European country.

It could have been an opportunity for the Muslim world to ally itself with Russia, and China. Unfortunately, Muslims are little more than chickens in cages waiting for their turn to be slaughtered.

Turkey is the only Muslim country that can take charge. But for that Turkey will have to make a bold decision like Russia and break away from NATO and the West.

Turkey can build an alliance of Muslim countries including Iran, Pakistan and the Central Asian republics. It would be a formidable alliance. It is imperative to bring in Iran.

This Muslim alliance will be friends with Russia and China. Russia provides military strength and China provides economic strength.

The Arabs can decide for themselves when they want to give up their friendship with the Anglo-Zionists.

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## FuturePAF

Khanate said:


> Saw the presser live.
> 
> Let me tell you, there are some real questions being asked about India behind closed door.


On both sides. The Russians are also looking at what the Indians are doing, and Russia could suspend shipment of military parts of India moves against them.


----------



## PakAlp

Tamerlane said:


> The main significance of this war is that Russia has finally given up trying to be friends with the Anglo-Zionist controlled West. It's a huge change for Russia that, for all of its history, has been trying to be accepted as a mainstream European country.
> 
> It could have been an opportunity for the Muslim world to ally itself with Russia, and China. Unfortunately, Muslims are little more than chickens in cages waiting for their turn to be slaughtered.
> 
> Turkey is the only Muslim country that can take charge. But for that Turkey will have to make a bold decision like Russia and break away from NATO and the West.
> 
> Turkey can build an alliance of Muslim countries including Iran, Pakistan and the Central Asian republics. It would be a formidable alliance. It is imperative to bring in Iran.
> 
> This Muslim alliance will be friends with Russia and China. Russia provides military strength and China provides economic strength.
> 
> The Arabs can decide for themselves when they want to give up their friendship with the Anglo-Zionists.



This would checkmate the western world, Muslim states need to make alliance with guarantees that they will be protected (Iraq,Syria,Libya,Yemen etc are sent back 50 years. The Arabs will not leave the Anglo/zionists. Indonesia/Malaysia can be neutral. SCO can be expanded.

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## Pappa Alpha

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496991566816329732
> 
> F-35 over Poland


It might as well fly over Fiji in a bikini. If it's not in Ukraine, it doesn't matter!

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## Riea

Is it possible for ukrain to hit Moscow?


----------



## Abid123

Riea said:


> Is it possible for ukrain to hit Moscow?


Impossible....


----------



## casual

Riea said:


> Is it possible for ukrain to hit Moscow?


no. ~56km is their limit IF their BM-30s are still intact which I highly doubt at this stage.


----------



## Englishman

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496991566816329732
> 
> F-35 over Poland


It may as well be over timbuktu you stupid yank

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## damiendehorn2

Tamerlane said:


> The West will fling its doors open for Ukrainians. They'll be fighting for their share of Ukrainians. Everyone wants pure white immigrants. The ones who don't like Russia can move to the West. The ones who stay behind will be okay with things.
> 
> A potential insurgent will have the choice between getting killed or moving to the West. They'll move to the West,


Or they will fight, for their country.


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

I think people saying one side has won in bias fashion are being unreasonable this is just the first day of a new conflict jeez.. Let the combatants fight and we will see in few weeks where things are but don't expect this to end in 24 hours or 1 week but rather months so chill and learn the anatomy of wars..

The Russians will patiently attempt to grind them down whereas the Ukrainians will patiently attempt to push them out as of right now the Russians have made some pushes inside and meeting resistance which is expected something both sides were well aware off and counted on in their calculus this is war but it is only first day.. There is question mark on how long can the resistance hold because something gotta give eventually as time passes on..

This is not a gung-ho kung-fu death match but rather a conventional war hence it is not about one punch KO's but rather about the ''Grind''


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## Tamerlane

This is what we need,

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## F-22Raptor

The Russians will ultimately prevail, but this is about making this illegal invasion as painful as possible for the Russians.

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## lastofthepatriots

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> I think people saying one side has won bias fashion are being unreasonable this is just the first day of a new conflict jeez.. Let the combatants fight and we will see in few weeks where things are but don't expect this to end in 24 hours or 1 week but rather months so chill and learn the anatomy of wars..
> 
> The Russians will patiently attempt to grind them down whereas the Ukrainians will patiently attempt to push them out as of right now the Russians have made some pushes inside and meeting resistance which is expected something both sides were well aware off and counted on in their calculus this is war but it is only first day.. There is question mark on how long can the resistance hold because something gotta give eventually as time passes on



I just don’t see the Russians sticking around. They’ve learned their lesson from Afghanistan and Chechnya, and apparently so have the Ukrainians.


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

kingQamaR said:


> They need to make the war as costly as possible for Russia and the West needs to help them to make that happen. The longer the war, the more problematic for Russia, especially when sanctions bite at the same time. It will come at a terrible cost for Ukraine, no doubt, but it is a huge country and difficult to control even with a large army. Ukraine becoming Russia's Afghanistan scenario is what the goal should be, with guerilla incursions and constant attacks.





F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians will ultimately prevail, but this is about making this illegal invasion as painful as possible for the Russians.


Are you willing to condemn a people to Hell just to get one over on Russia? Are you that spiteful? This is your brain on the West. West... not even once.

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## Abid123

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians will ultimately prevail, but this is about making this illegal invasion as painful as possible for the Russians.


What are you gonna do? Cry out even louder?

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## S10

Tamerlane said:


> This is what we need,


I need a $5 billion loan from Bill Gates and 5 of Victoria's Secret models to be my wives.

I probably have the more realistic dream.

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## Genghis khan1

Tamerlane said:


> This is what we need,


For this we need leadership of someone from the lineage of Tamerlane. This calls for emergence of Mughal Empire. This time much bigger and better.

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## Tamerlane

S10 said:


> I need a $5 billion loan from Bill Gates and 5 of Victoria's Secret models to be my wives.
> 
> I probably have the more realistic dream.



Yes. But dreaming is free.

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## Flight of falcon

Looks like Russians have breached Kiev and have entered the city : 


“But as night fell, fears of a Russian assault on the capital grew. Gunfire and explosions were heard in the city throughout the day and the president was quoted in Ukrainian media as saying "saboteurs" had entered Kyiv.”










Ukraine conflict: Kyiv braces for Russian assault


The Ministry of Defence made the call as Russian forces reached the northern outskirts of Kyiv.



www.bbc.com

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## PakAlp

Tamerlane said:


> This is what we need,



I wouldn't say its impossible. Iran and Russia are allies, Pakistan and China are allies, China and Russia are allies, Turkey and Pakistan are allies and Turkey is very close to the other Turk States and by 2040 they will form TurkUnion. Turkey and Russian/China may not be allies but are not enemies, Pakistan/Turkey are not allies with Iran but are not enemies. I dont see any issue for a alliance as long as Turkey leaves Nato.

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## Tshering22

HttpError said:


> Maybe he wants to settle some old score with Russian Federation or Tsar? But will eventually end up ceeding more British Territory to Russia.


Seems more like a chance to get back at EU and prove that they are the top dog in the European continent. Basically, the UK has been wondering its role as a member of the Five Eyes now post-BREXIT. It is developed, strong and innovative even today, but yet it does not lead an international forum or grouping of its own. 

The other objective could be just to let Royal Shell and BP to recuperate the losses from COVID-19. I don't see BAE selling that many arms to Ukraine or even in British government contracts, unlike the American companies.


----------



## WinterFangs

Tshering22 said:


> Well, he is your PM for now and has succeeded in distracting the UK.
> 
> What are the chances of British forces sending covert ops teams to take our Russian area commanders? Too much of a stretch?


Doubt it, Ukraine will be supported by weapons and equipment, and even funding wise, but uk will never put feet on the ground in Ukraine, be it by a covert ops or a different method. uk nor us wants war with Russia unless Russia attacks a nato member which it wont.

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## dBSPL

Tamerlane said:


> This is what we need,


You are only looking at the issue from your own point of view and because you have difficulty in understanding at the geopolitical realities of the nature of Russia-Turkey relations. Please do not take the topic out of context. There is a war on the other side of the sea that I am looking at right now.

///

Regarding Putin/Russia, it is clear that the invasion of Ukraine is definitely not about Ukraine. Russia overturned the table and challenged the world order by risking everything.

Listen to the speech he gave at 6 am yesterday. He gave a *manifesto speech* and very little of what he said was about Ukraine. History will judge him by how sincere he was in this speech, and whether he did what he promised.

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## Tshering22

PakAlp said:


> I wouldn't say its impossible. Iran and Russia are allies, Pakistan and China are allies, China and Russia are allies, Turkey and Pakistan are allies and Turkey is very close to the other Turk States and by 2040 they will form TurkUnion. Turkey and Russian/China may not be allies but are not enemies, Pakistan/Turkey are not allies with Iran but are not enemies. I dont see any issue for a alliance as long as Turkey leaves Nato.


Turkey won't leave NATO without a concrete assurance of a similar military alliance. Why not stay and extract whatever benefits it can until the right time comes.

It is located in one of the most valuable crossroads of the world; straddling both Europe and Asia. If they leave NATO then they get into the crosshairs of the West; if they remain in NATO, they view Russia a bit uncomfortably and for obvious reasons.

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## The SC

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496960372372385795


Yes not even fa*en mine fields..


----------



## kingQamaR

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Are you willing to condemn a people to Hell just to get one over on Russia? Are you that spiteful? This is your brain on the West. West... not even once.



The amount of Russian trolls on this forums are a joke. Pure manipulation. Russia and Iran on here want to really cause trouble they need to be encircled and stopped.

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## Beast

That Guy said:


> Well, yeah. They're not gonna instantly switch suppliers. It takes time to switch over.
> 
> I don't know why everyone expected Europe to instantly abandon Russian gas, and have no gas for the next few days.


So EU shall also shut about threat to Russia until they weed off Russia gas and oil.


----------



## Clutch

Russian Units Advancing From Crimea Have Reached the Dnieper River
60 kilometers in half a day
Anti-Empire 9 hours ago 3147 10

Passing through Crimea border control
Ukrainian military seems to be holding up somewhat in the east, but its southern front seems not to have put up much resistance.

The Russian military was able to break out from the Crimean isthmus and then march to the Dnieper river at Nova Kakhovka in only half a day.

That’s pretty disastrous for the Ukrainian side since the Crimean isthmus is a bottleneck. If they had a chance of holding up the Russians it would have been there.

The obvious move for the Russians now is to cross the Dnieper and carve out a valuable bridgehead. Maybe march on to Odessa when more forces catch up.

The other option is to pour from Crimea going east. Advance far enough and you’re starting to threaten the rear, and the escape routes, of the Ukrainian units that were positioned against Donbass.

In any case, this is probably the biggest Russian success of the day.


There are only two roads leading out of Crimea, the rest is swampy salty lagoons


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496804754395213832

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## Beast

kingQamaR said:


> The amount of Russian trolls on this forums are a joke. Pure manipulation. Russia and Iran on here want to really cause trouble they need to be encircled and stopped.


Thank you for proving u are the one here..

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## Clutch

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496794681811767297
The Moscow Times

French President Emmanuel Macron held a heated telephone exchange with Vladimir Putin on Thursday evening — the first Western leader believed to have spoken with the Russian president since Moscow launched an invasion of Ukraine.

Macron demanded an "immediate halt" to Russia's attack on Ukraine, according to a readout from the Elysee Palace.
Updated: 4 hours ago




The Moscow Times

The United States has expelled Russia's number two diplomat in Washington in a tit for tat move after Moscow's expulsion of a senior U.S. envoy, a State Department official said Thursday.

Sergey Trepelkov, the second-highest ranking official at the Russian embassy, was informed Wednesday that he had to depart, after Moscow ordered the US deputy chief of mission in Russia, Bart Gorman, to leave earlier this month

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## Clutch

The Moscow Times

The UN refugee agency said around 100,000 people had fled their homes in Ukraine and several thousand more had left the country since neighbouring Russia invaded early Thursday.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497017099247656963


----------



## Clutch

The Moscow Times
A Russian Antonov An-26 transport plane carrying military equipment crashed in Russia's southern Voronezh region near Ukraine, killing all crew members on board, the defence ministry said Thursday. Officials declined to specify how many people had been killed in the incident


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497015621082624003

The UK assesses that Russia did not meet it’s Day 1 objectives

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## Clutch




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## Daniel808

Battle of Chernobyl winning by Russian.
Ukraine troops retreat after short skirmishes.


Chernobyl now totally under Russian Control

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497011875753738251

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## Vapnope

Mav3rick said:


> I am being dead serious. The majority of Americans wanted us to manage the East Pakistan affair with logic and compassion and viewed our actions there to be morally and legally corrupt. The divide between the Government and pro East-Pakistan group was very big, which in some ways limited the actions the administration may have wanted to take to support West Pakistan but the administration still provided military assistance through illicit means.
> 
> You may want to read up on the National Security Archives (US) and other neutral accounts and news of the crisis/war and history of US sanctions on Pakistan since 1965.


I have read american secret papers where Nixon and Kissinger detailed discussions are mentioned. 
It clearly states that American did not provide the military weapons while Yahya pleaded them for a long time.


----------



## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496998366265450502

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496731284307128321

😂

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## ZeEa5KPul

kingQamaR said:


> The amount of Russian trolls on this forums are a joke. Pure manipulation. Russia and Iran on here want to really cause trouble they need to be encircled and stopped.


Have you considered the possibility that they're doing this because you're trying to encircle them?

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## Wood

Nothing short of a suicide bombing campaign will deter the Russian advance and its subsequent occupation of Ukraine. Even if Russia installs a puppet government in Ukraine, it will need an occupying force to support it. This can only lead to the assimilation of Ukraine in the Russian Federation. 

The Ukraine government's request to join NATO has already been turned down by western countries. This can only mean that everyone is ready for that outcome.


----------



## MH.Yang

S.Y.A said:


> what sort of nazis? anti communists? anti russians? right wing people? or just people who use nazi paraphernalia but arent really a part of them? to the western liberals anyone not agreeing with them is a nazi, and to the western conservatives anyone not agreeing with them is a commie.


So Americans think the Chinese are both Communists and Nazis. Well, it doesn't conflict, just as Chinese are both waves and particles.

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## Daniel808

MH.Yang said:


> So Americans think the Chinese are both Communists and Nazis. Well, it doesn't conflict, just as Chinese are both waves and particles.



Chinese is Capitalist also according to their Propaganda media in Africa

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497021776634970115

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## Get Ya Wig Split

Russia catching L's left and right 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497019034520502273


----------



## WinterFangs

Daniel808 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496998366265450502
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496731284307128321
> 
> 😂
> View attachment 818399


A lot of conflicting propaganda from both sides. Us now claim a “ghost of kyiv“ has downed 5-6 Russian jets, which I personally don’t believe, but a huge portion of people do, guess you got to lift the morale some way or another.


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497015991498280989

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

USA's reaction hen Russian bear shows up

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## MH.Yang

Before we debate whether Ukraine is a Nazi country, we should first clarify the standards of the Nazi country: Promote the theory of racial superiority and believe that superior races have the right to enslave lower races. 

We should use this standard to identify Nazi countries, not a few slogans and epaulets.


BTW: Just because a man is Jewish doesn't mean he's not a Nazi. On the contrary, I think Israel is a Nazi country.

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## Clutch

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497021776634970115



The same UK ministry that claimed Iraq had Weapons of Mass Destruction?.... Are you talking about that country's ministry???

*Zelensky Orders General Mobilization, Blocks Men Aged 18 to 60 From Leaving Country*
Chris Menahan
InformationLiberation
Feb. 24, 2022


Popular




Russian Cruise Missile Filmed Striking Airfield in Ukraine; All Military Airports, Naval Bases Destroyed


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Ukraine's president Volodymyr Zelensky on Thursday afternoon ordered all Ukrainian men aged 18 to 60 be blocked from leaving the country under martial law.


__________

60 years old as well?

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## 艹艹艹

Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky said, "Who is ready to fight alongside us? I don't see anyone."​

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## MH.Yang

That Guy said:


> By completely having it's economy destroyed. Yup.
> 
> Russia should have stopped at the rebel held areas, and called it a day. No one would have cared, and sanctions wouldn't have been so severe.



I think the opposite. Russia's biggest mistake is to recognize the independence of eastern Ukraine, which is a real harm to the international order. 
If Russia organizes and arms the eastern Ukrainian army, and even sends hundreds of thousands of troops to join the eastern Ukrainian army in the name of volunteers, and then overthrows the Ukrainian government. This is acceptable, because this is a civil war under the national framework of Ukraine.

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## Daniel808

WinterFangs said:


> A lot of conflicting propaganda from both sides. Us now claim a “ghost of kyiv“ has downed 5-6 Russian jets, which I personally don’t believe, but a huge portion of people do, guess you got to lift the morale some way or another.



Yeah, we need to filter.
There is so many propaganda, especially from the losing side (Ukraine).


Like this one.
Ukraine claim captured 2 Russian Soldiers from 11th Guards Air Assaults Brigade (VDV).
But Something is weird with this video. Equipment looks like Russian however in tradition of VDV is to be informed what their task is (contrary with the soldier in video claimed). They are elite. Soldier on the left doesn't look like paratrooper at all. Both also have strong ukrainian accent  So, you can guess


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497023873849733122

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## Clutch

*Russia’s Strategic Swing Drives NATO Nuts*

By Pepe Escobar

February 21, 2022: History will register that the birth of the baby twins – Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics – only a few hours before 2/22/22, was simultaneous to the birth of the real, 21st century multipolar world.

As my columns have stressed for a few years now, Vladimir Putin has been carefully nurturing his inner Sun Tzu. And now it’s all in the open: “Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”

The thunderbolt was months in the process of being meticulously polished. To paraphrase Lenin, who “created Ukraine” (copyright Putin), we did live many decades in only these past few days. It all started with the detailed demands of security guarantees sent to the Americans, which Moscow knew would be rejected. Then there was the Russia-China joint statement at the start of the Winter Olympics – which codifies not only the strategic partnership but also the key tenets of the multipolar world.

The culmination was a stunning, nearly one hour-long address to the nation by Putin shortly after the Russian Security Council live session deliberating on the request for independence by the DPR and the LPR (here is a condensed version.)

A few hours later, at an emergency UN Security Council meeting, Russian Permanent Representative Vasily Nebenzya precisely outlined why the recognition of the baby twins does not bury the Minsk agreements.

The baby twins actually declared their independence in May 2014. In 2015 they signed the Minsk agreements as one of the interested parties. Theoretically they could even be back within Ukraine if Kiev would ever decide to respect the agreements, which will never happen because the U.S. has vetoed it since 2015. Moreover, the people of Donbass do not want to be subjected to a regime harboring neo-Nazis.
Have you seen "Help Tom with medical expenses to fight leukemia"?



As Nebenzya outlined, “I would like to remind you that at the time of the conclusion of the Minsk agreements, the LPR and DPR had already declared independence. The fact that Russia today recognized it does not change the composition of the parties to the Minsk agreements, since Russia is not one (…) Another thing is that the Minsk agreements have long been openly sabotaged by Ukraine under the auspices of our Western colleagues. Now we see that many colleagues want to sign that the Minsk agreements are dead. But this is not the case (…) We are still open to diplomacy, but we do not intend to allow a new bloody massacre in the Donbass.”

And here’s the clincher, directly addressing imperial support for the killing of ethnic Russians in Donbass: “The main task of our decision [on recognizing independence] was to preserve and protect these lives. This is more important than all your threats.”

There you go: Responsibility to Protect (R2P), a concept invented by the Americans to launch wars, used by Russia for preventing one.

That certified nullity, German chancellor Scholz, deriding Putin’s characterization of a genocide in Donbass as “laughable”, was a decisive factor in the birth of the baby wins. Putin, in his address to the nation, especially took time to detail the Odessa massacre: “We cannot but shudder when we remember about the situation in Odessa, when people were burned alive (…) And those criminals who did this, they are not punished (…) But we know their names, and we will do everything to punish them (…) and to bring them to justice.”

What about China?

Geopolitically, in Eurasian terms, two huge questions stand out: the role of the CSTO and the response from China.

If we look at the Article 19, Chapter VI of the CSTO charter, we learn that, “any state sharing the goals and principles of the Organization and being ready to undertake the obligations containing in this Charter and other international treaties and resolutions effective within the framework of the Organization may become a member of the Organization.”

That would open the door for the baby twins, as soon as they have finalized all the bureaucratic endeavors pertaining to new, independent nations, to request CSTO membership. Incidentally, CSTO secretary-general Pashinian has already gone to Moscow to discuss it.

China is a way more complex proposition. One of the key tenets of Beijing’s foreign policy is the fight against separatism – embedded in the foundation of the SCO. So Beijing cannot possibly recognize the baby twins, or what would amount to Novorossiya – yes, Putin did pronounce the magic word – before Kiev itself does or, a serious possibility, completely disintegrates.

The Foreign Ministry so far has been extremely cautious. Wang Yi has reiterated “China’s long-standing position that the legitimate security concerns of all countries must be respected, and the purposes & principles of the UN Charter must be upheld.”

Further on down the road, presumably after some serious exchanges between Wang Yi and Lavrov, China can always find myriad ways to unofficially help the baby twins – including advancing BRI-related connectivity and sustainable development projects.

As for Kiev disintegration, that’s directly linked to Moscow demanding the immediate stop of the mini-blitzkrieg against Donbass, otherwise they will bear full responsibility. Yes, regime stalwarts will be hunted and punished – complete with a possible War Crimes Tribunal. No wonder all sorts of oligarchic/political rats, big and small, are scurrying away, to Lviv, Poland and the UK.

The Munich effect

The intervention of all 12 members at the Security Council session, combined with Putin’s address to the nation was the stuff of gripping geopolitical drama. Putin’s body language and the look in his eyes testified to the immense gravity of the moment – and it all came to the forefront when he embarked in a concise history lesson spanning a century.

Barely containing his anger at the countless ways Russia has been vilified by the West, and taking no prisoners when referring to communism, what mostly stood out was the clear-cut rendition of the insurmountable antagonism between the Anglo-American islands and the civilizational Heartland – or the clash between maritime powers and land powers. That Eurasia classic was the bulk of his exposition: the recognition of the baby twins took less than three minutes.

The Munich Security Conference, this past weekend, had made it all so explicit. Munich, as terrifying as it was in terms of a congregation of headless chickens posing as eagles, at least confirmed everything is in the open.

The enemy is Russia. NATO infinite expansion – to outer space – is against Russia. And then we had a parade of add-on threats: no disarmament in Eastern Europe, cutting off the Russian economy from the EU, end of Nord Stream 2, Ukraine in NATO, world order built on “universal liberal values”.

Munich spelled out No Compromise Whatsoever – which was exactly what Putin, Lavrov, Patrushev and co. expected, the warmongering rhetoric burying any meaningful discussion of migration, inflation, cyber wars, the European energy crisis and, of course, the only thing that matters for the MICIMATT (military-industrial-congressional-intelligence-media-academia-think tank complex, as defined by Ray McGovern): let’s milk this Eurotrash lot for untold billions in new contracts, let’s isolate Russia, let’s destroy Nord Stream 2 to sell them our ultra expensive LNG, let’s keep them on a leash – forever.

So actually it’s not even war against Russia: the $30 trillion-indebted Empire with a woke military attached simply could not afford it. Not to mention the certified freak out in case they receive a phone call from Mr. Khinzal and Mr. Zircon : cue to the spectacular Russian display of “military and technical” superiority, hypersonic and otherwise – staged, irony of ironies, in synch with the circus in Munich.

What we have here is so lame: just a lowlife offer-you-can’t-refuse racket to be inflicted on the EU.

The Indivisible Security dance

The rabid Munich “No Compromise” show; the imperially-ordered Ukro crypto-blitzkrieg against Donbass; and the role of the U.S. Lack of Intelligence Community – an Andrei Martyanov-coined howler – altogether sealed the deal for the Security Council deliberations and Putin’s decision.

Considering the ideological stupidity of the current Brussels gang – Stoltenberg, von der Leyen, Borrell –, incapable of understanding even basic economics, the fact remains that the EU without Russian energy is doomed. Martyanov stresses the algorithm: Russia can afford the break up with Europe. Europe cannot. The U.S. just wants to collect. And we’re not even talking about the dire, incoming ramifications of the systemic crisis across NATOstan.

Even as Moscow plays a very long, calculated game, as it stands that does not necessarily mean that Russia will be “winning” the baby twins while “losing” Europe. Russia’s strategic swing repeatedly baffles the Atlanticist combo. The U.S. lack of intelligence community was predicting a Russian “aggression” every other day – and still is. Instead they got the baby twins as the latest independent republics of the Global South.

Even before Munich, the Ukro crypto-blitzkrieg, and the recognition of the baby twins, Moscow had again warned it may respond with “military and technical measures” to ensure its own security after the U.S. and NATO blatantly ignored key points from its proposal for a long-term European security architecture, and instead “cherry-picked” issues from a package deal.

Moscow will not let the Americans run away from the by now notorious 10-page Russian response. Putin, addressing the Stavka, had already warned “we are in a situation (…) where we are forced to resolve it.” Which bring us to what John Helmer niftly qualified as Russia’s black box defense. The beauty is no one knows what’s inside the black box.

Enter, once again, the “military-technical measures” that will be “reciprocal” (Putin) to what U.S. and NATOstan are already deploying against Russia. They won’t necessarily be implemented in the Black Sea, the Sea of Azov, in the airspace above Donbass, even in cyberspace. It could be anywhere – from the Syrian theater to Latin America.

Surprise! That’s what strategic ambivalence, ambiguity, or – let’s get down to the rhythm – swing is all about. You don’t believe in the principle of indivisible security? Fine. Now we dictate the security rhythm. You’re not gonna stop deploying nuclear weapons outside your territory? Fine. Here’s some reciprocity. You’re not gonna accept legally binding guarantees of our security? Fine. Meet our “military-technical” measures.

*Now dance, suckers.*

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## Song Hong

I expect Kiev to fall within 24 hours. 









Kiev ‘could fall to Russians within hours as Ukraine air defences eliminated’


Warning from senior western intelligence official comes as Kremlins says 83 Ukrainian military sites destroyed




www.independent.co.uk

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## Clutch

Top brass reveals 74 Ukrainian military facilities were crippled by Russia’s strikes​Among them are 11 airfields belonging to the Air Force, three command points, a Ukrainian Navy base and 18 radar stations of S-300 and Buk-M1 missile systems, Defense Ministry Spokesman Igor Konashenkov specified





© Stringer/TASS
MOSCOW, February 24. /TASS/. More than 70 ground infrastructure facilities belonging to Ukraine were incapacitated by strikes carried out by Russia’s Armed Forces, Defense Ministry Spokesman Igor Konashenkov told reporters on Thursday.

"As a result of the strikes conducted by Russia’s Armed Forces, 74 ground facilities of Ukraine’s military infrastructure were knocked out of action. Among them are 11 airfields belonging to the Air Force, three command points, a Ukrainian Navy base and 18 radar stations of S-300 and Buk-M1 missile systems," Konashenkov specified.

According to him, a combat helicopter and four Bayraktar TB2 unmanned combat aerial vehicles were shot down.
He stressed that the strikes carried out by Russia’s Armed Forces are not targeting Ukrainian cities as well as social facilities in military garrisons.

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## Daniel808

Song Hong said:


> I expect Kiev to fall within 24 hours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kiev ‘could fall to Russians within hours as Ukraine air defences eliminated’
> 
> 
> Warning from senior western intelligence official comes as Kremlins says 83 Ukrainian military sites destroyed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk



Such a big country (Bigger than Germany, Japan, UK, and even France) like Ukraine with massive population and intensive defence network, fall so fast.


This is what Modern Warfare called 


*Zmiyiny Island fall under Russian Control*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497021750315413504

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## Clutch

*Russian military disabled 83 military facilities in Ukraine - Defense Ministry*



Since the start of the military operation, two Su-27 and two Su-24 planes, one helicopter and four Bayraktar TB-2 drones of the Ukrainian armed forces have been shot down

MOSCOW, February 25. /TASS/. Since the start of the special operation, Russian armed forces have disabled 83 facilities of Ukraine’s ground military infrastructure, destroyed four planes and four drones, Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov has told reporters.

"Overall, as a result of strikes by the Russian armed forces, 83 ground-based objects of Ukrainian military infrastructure have been kncked out of action. Since the start of the military operation, two Su-27 and two Su-24 planes, one helicopter and four Bayraktar TB-2 drones of the Ukrainian armed forces have been shot down," he said.

Russian President Vladimir Putin said in a televised address on Thursday morning that in response to a request by the heads of the Donbass republics he had made a decision to carry out a special military operation in order to protect people "who have been suffering from abuse and genocide by the Kiev regime for eight years." The Russian leader stressed that Moscow had no plans of occupying Ukrainian territories.

When clarifying the developments unfolding, the Russian Defense Ministry reassured that Russian troops are not targeting Ukrainian cities, but are limited to surgically striking and incapacitating Ukrainian military infrastructure. There are no threats whatsoever to the civilian population.


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## Song Hong

Daniel808 said:


> Such a big country (Bigger than Germany, Japan, UK, and even France) like Ukraine with massive population and intensive defence network, fall so fast.
> 
> 
> This is what Modern Warfare called



A lot of people around Kiev is ethnic Russian. They wont fight. From Belarus to Kiev is 90km, less than one hour of car ride.

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## Indos

艹艹艹 said:


> Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky said, "Who is ready to fight alongside us? I don't see anyone."​



Those US reporters are so dumb by urging USA and NATO sanction Russian fully that can skyrocketing energy prices and possibly destroy 1/3 German industry

Let alone US reporters who urge NATO to jump into the war

What US and NATO do is already quite wise, we need to avoid WW3

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## _Nabil_

Daniel808 said:


> Such a big country (Bigger than Germany, Japan, UK, and even France) like Ukraine with massive population and intensive defence network, fall so fast.
> 
> 
> This is what Modern Warfare called
> 
> 
> *Zmiyiny Island fall under Russian Control*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497021750315413504


When you have a Zio clown as president, nothing is strange ....


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## Song Hong

__





乌克兰富豪集体跑路 最富的前100位跑了96个


近段时间以来，随着西方国家及媒体不断炒作“俄罗斯即将袭击乌克兰”一说，令俄乌边境局势到了“一触即发”的境地。结果，俄罗斯没有“如期”发动攻击，乌克兰国内却出了事。




news.cctv.com






Chinese media reported 96 out of 100 Ukraine richest flee. As well as most of her lawmakers.

US lapdog are the worst kind of leaders, most deprave in the whole world. They talk talk talk... When action come, they flee to Miami and fk woman there.


You think they are going to create a Stalingrad?



Indos said:


> Those US reporters are so dumb by urging USA and NATO sanction Russian fully that can skyrocketing energy prices and possibly destroy 1/3 German industry
> 
> Let alone US reporters who urge NATO to jump into the war
> 
> What US and NATO do is already quite wise, we need to avoid WW3

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## Daniel808

Song Hong said:


> A lot of people around Kiev is ethnic Russian. They wont fight. From Belarus to Kiev is 90km, less than one hour of car ride.
> 
> View attachment 818407




No. From 3.5 Million Kyiv Oblast population, Russian ethnic only composed around 300.000. That's less than 10% of the population.
And also Russian Main Assault directed to Kiev is not come from Chernobly (shortest route) direction. But comes from Chernihiv direction which around 200-250 km from Belarus border

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## Meengla

Indus Pakistan said:


> Thus we can call this pre-emptive. Had Russia taken such posture in 1990s NATO would still be parked on River Oder. But then Boris was too busy supping bottles of Vodka ... !



How distinctly I remember those heady days from almost 3 decades ago when CNN continuously played Boris Yeltsin defying the Soviet when tanks were on the streets of Moscow! How such pathetic 'leaders'--and not just in Russia-- have let their proverbial 15 minutes of fame in front of the global press, dominated by Americans, to ruin their nations!

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## Daniel808

Poor Ukraine 😅

Fooled by americans lip service

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497037217696559110

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Wow that is rough


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497038413274431491


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496991566816329732
> 
> F-35 over Poland




Any update where is the F-35 now ?
It's been refueling for a awfully long time now

Want to know more about the brave pilot who will step into middle of Russian zone of influence

Would be curious to know if Russians have deployed a special toy for F-35

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## CAPRICORN-88



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## Song Hong

These are the most corrupt people in the whole world. I guess the psyche of Ukrainian now is not to die to protect them, but to send the to guillotine with the help of Russian.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497039189740859419


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## Daniel808

Kiev now

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497040131139960833


----------



## The SC

Latest Russia and Ukraine news in instant coverage:

- France is moving to deploy soldiers in Romania .. and supports Ukraine with 300 million euros

- European Union: Sanctions target 70% of the Russian banking sector

- Germany seeks to boost military spending after Russia invades Ukraine

- America and Albania are moving in the Security Council .. a vote against Russia

- Japan announces toughening sanctions against Russia

- Zelensky: Ukraine was "left alone" against Russia

- An American official reveals the mechanism of sanctions against Russia: economic restrictions and strategic isolation

- The first day of the Russia-Ukraine war... an attack from 3 fronts and a stabilization of feet

- Ukraine announces general mobilization, and Washington mobilizes for a "collective condemnation" against Russia

- In response to the Ukraine war... "enormous" European sanctions against Russia

- Displaced people and refugees in the Ukraine war... the United Nations reveals the outcome

- When will Kiev fall?... Shocking Western expectations

- Russian forces approach the Ukrainian capital, Kiev

- The US Treasury: We are targeting the Russian economy, and this is the list of sanctions

- Biden threatens Putin with harsh sanctions and rules out a military confrontation with Russia

- Ukraine announces the toll of its losses on the first day of the war

- The fake war in Ukraine .. 5 scenes that deceived the audience

- Turkish and US Defense Ministers discuss Ukraine developments

- How will football be affected in the event of World War III?

- Chernobyl reactor... The station between disasters and wars

- The Ukrainian presidency announces that Russian forces have taken control of the Chernobyl plant

- The latest developments of the Russian-Ukrainian war.. What did Moscow achieve from Thursday's goals?

- What does Russia's exclusion from the SWIFT system mean?

- Ukraine: Our forces sacrifice their lives to prevent a repeat of the Chernobyl disaster

- Putin: There were no alternatives to the military operation in Ukraine

- US official maps Russian targets in Ukraine

- The Russian invasion.. Europe summons the ambassador of Moscow and the Czech Republic suspends visas

- What does Russia want from Ukraine? .. "Grades" Putin's frightening weapon

- Ukraine: Russia has arrived near Chernobyl and a fight around a military airport

- "F-35" lands in Romania, and a European warning not to support Ukraine
The Russian invasion... the president of Ukraine fears for his life

- A Turkish ship was bombed off the coast of Odessa

- US expert: Putin misunderstood the situation in Ukraine

- Russia announces the outcome of its military strikes in Ukraine

- The map of destruction in the Ukraine war... Russia threatens the "angry people"

- Ukraine's attack worries the Baltic states... Is it Stalin's curse?

- A tendency to withdraw the Champions League final from Russia

- The Russian-Ukrainian war... the madness of numbers sweeping the world (instant update)

- Belarus offers to mediate in the Ukraine crisis.. Will we see "Minsk 3"?

- Oil from the pandemic to the Russian-Ukrainian war... the $100 trip

- The moment the Russian flag was raised in Nova Kakhova, southern Ukraine

- Denis Pushlin and Leonid Bashnik... The emergence of the leaders of Donetsk and Luhansk

- Ukraine requests Turkey's help in the war against Russia.. How?

- The Russian-Ukrainian war .. 30 strikes from Moscow and the downing of a plane to Kiev

- The worst-case scenario for Ukraine under the military superiority of the Russian army

- The Iraqi community in Ukraine... Vacations and a hotline

- The Russian-Ukrainian war .. the city defender wishes the “harder death” for Putin

- When will the Russian war in Ukraine end? .. The Kremlin answers

- Russia's losses in the Ukraine war... the collapse of the stock market, the ruble, and sanctions on the horizon

- Russia and Ukraine .. a message from NATO and an emergency summit

- The latest news of Russia and Ukraine.. Putin's army is on the outskirts of Kiev

- A list of products affected by the Russian-Ukrainian war... the painful bill

- NATO moves east after the outbreak of the Russo-Ukrainian war

- World War III.. Russia punishes Ukraine with electricity and reassures Europe with gas

- The Russo-Ukrainian war is expanding by sea, by air and by land

- The flames of war burn the neighboring countries of Ukraine.. closure, emergency, and preparedness for the displaced

- The Russian-Ukrainian war: Explosions hit Kiev, targeting the Ministry of Defense

- World War III .. "Twitter" ignites with the Russian attack against Ukraine

- The last of which is in Ukraine.. 4 wars in Putin's life

- The Russian-Ukrainian war ignites oil... a record high for Aramco's stock

- Sudan denies supporting Putin's decision on Donetsk and Luhansk

- The Russian-Ukrainian war: Putin's goals and expected scenarios

- World War III.. Wheat ships suspended and an imminent food crisis

- Video.. The delegate of Ukraine asks a "fiery" question to his Russian counterpart in the Security Council

- Ukraine's president seeks help from the world and cuts ties with Russia

- A Russian military convoy is moving from the Crimea towards Ukraine

- The Russian war stops the Ukrainian League

- Ukrainian army: About 50 Russians were killed and 6 planes destroyed in the east of the country

- The West is preparing to respond to Russia... a threat, a threat, and demands to stop the attack

- Madness afflicts the world's markets... the repercussions of the Russian-Ukrainian war

- The Russian-Ukrainian war.. Has Belarus entered the line?

- The President of Ukraine confronts the invasion in drama and reality.. "The servant of the people" comes out of the screen

- Can America impose oil sanctions on Russia? .. The complex calculations of the war

- Russia talks about the escape of Ukrainian soldiers... and reassures civilians

.- Russian Targets Bank..Ukrainian cities that were bombed

- Oil prices above $103 a barrel following the Russian war on Ukraine

- Crazy rise in gold prices .. the safe shield for investors in the war of Russia and Ukraine

- What will NATO do after the Russian war in Ukraine?

- The first outcome of Russia's war in Ukraine. 7 dead and 9 injured

- Russia begins ground invasion of eastern Ukraine

- Russia-Ukraine war.. Separatist forces announce the downing of two fighter jets to Kiev

- The repercussions of the Russian war in Ukraine .. the collapse of the ruble and the “central” intervenes

- Putin uses America's tactics against Ukraine... Is he launching a Russian "Desert Storm"?

- The repercussions of the Russian war in Ukraine... the shock of the financial markets

- Why did Russia launch war on Ukraine? .. "Nebenzia" answers

- Live broadcast.. Russian war in Ukraine

- It fell into the hands of Russia.. Ukraine admits losing control of some areas

- Ukraine calls for military, financial and humanitarian support

- The Russian military operation in Ukraine is bombing the markets.. Where will the war lead?

- The Russian war in Ukraine .. Moscow raises the pace of the offensive and the West is preparing to confront

- Ukraine: Intense Russian bombing of military units, control centers and airports

- Ukraine announces the downing of 5 Russian planes and helicopter in Luhansk

- The invasion of Ukraine confuses the accounts of airlines, airport paralysis and a European warning

- The Russian-Ukrainian war... Has Putin fallen into the American trap?

- Invasion of Ukraine .. a cyber attack on banks and temporary suspension of services

- Ukraine's president makes an urgent appeal to his countrymen

- Humanity's Appeal: Guterres appeals to Putin to "stop the war now"

- The first Ukrainian comment after the start of the Russian military operation

- Biden: America and its allies will respond in a united and decisive manner

- The war has begun... "terrifying" explosions in Ukrainian cities

Coinciding with the Security Council meeting, Putin announces a military operation in Ukraine

- Anger and accusations against Russia... Frustration at the emergency meeting of the Security Council on Ukraine

- War is approaching.. Zelensky shocks Ukrainians, explosions resound in Donetsk

- European sanctions against the Russian defense minister .. and France withdraws its nationals

- New satellite images.. What is happening on the Russian-Ukrainian border?

- Reuters: Ukraine is exposed to a new wave of cyber attacks

- The Kremlin: The leaders of Luhansk and Donetsk asked to repel the aggression of Ukraine

- Washington confirms "zero hour" is approaching... and weapons are flowing into Ukrainians

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## Faith_Lock

Daniel808 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496998366265450502
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496731284307128321
> 
> 😂
> View attachment 818399


----------



## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497039189740859419




Some believe it was an aircraft


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497042194662051843

Yes, a Russian aircraft


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## Khanate

Daniel808 said:


> Poor Ukraine 😅
> 
> Fooled by americans lip service
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497037217696559110




Standard response from the US, UK, EU, NATO, UN and the entire world:

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## Aesterix

People of Ukraine should forget about war and subscribe to her Only fans website 


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497038413274431491


Looks like those phosphorous shells used to light up an area

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## Dariush the Great

Oldman1 said:


> LOL! They haven't if they are still fighting and still don't see a Ukrainian President surrender yet. Sending airborne troops to the airport is not the same as taking over Kiev. They asking for terms of surrender after just 1 day of operations? What does that tell you? And with Russian casualties piling up and have to sustain the fighting, this is far from over.





F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497015621082624003
> 
> The UK assesses that Russia did not meet it’s Day 1 objectives


It is not even 24 hours yet entire Ukraine is in panic and on the verge of defeat.
The US with the support of the entire world took 3 weeks to defeat a surrendered and impoverished Iraq.

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## ZeEa5KPul

The SC said:


> Latest Russia and Ukraine news in instant coverage:
> 
> - France is moving to deploy soldiers in Romania .. and supports Ukraine with 300 million euros
> 
> - European Union: Sanctions target 70% of the Russian banking sector
> 
> - Germany seeks to boost military spending after Russia invades Ukraine
> 
> - America and Albania are moving in the Security Council .. a vote against Russia
> 
> - Japan announces toughening sanctions against Russia
> 
> - Zelensky: Ukraine was "left alone" against Russia
> 
> - An American official reveals the mechanism of sanctions against Russia: economic restrictions and strategic isolation
> 
> - The first day of the Russia-Ukraine war... an attack from 3 fronts and a stabilization of feet
> 
> - Ukraine announces general mobilization, and Washington mobilizes for a "collective condemnation" against Russia
> 
> - In response to the Ukraine war... "enormous" European sanctions against Russia
> 
> - Displaced people and refugees in the Ukraine war... the United Nations reveals the outcome
> 
> - When will Kiev fall?... Shocking Western expectations
> 
> - Russian forces approach the Ukrainian capital, Kiev
> 
> - The US Treasury: We are targeting the Russian economy, and this is the list of sanctions
> 
> - Biden threatens Putin with harsh sanctions and rules out a military confrontation with Russia
> 
> - Ukraine announces the toll of its losses on the first day of the war
> 
> - The fake war in Ukraine .. 5 scenes that deceived the audience
> 
> - Turkish and US Defense Ministers discuss Ukraine developments
> 
> - How will football be affected in the event of World War III?
> 
> - Chernobyl reactor... The station between disasters and wars
> 
> - The Ukrainian presidency announces that Russian forces have taken control of the Chernobyl plant
> 
> - The latest developments of the Russian-Ukrainian war.. What did Moscow achieve from Thursday's goals?
> 
> - What does Russia's exclusion from the SWIFT system mean?
> 
> - Ukraine: Our forces sacrifice their lives to prevent a repeat of the Chernobyl disaster
> 
> - Putin: There were no alternatives to the military operation in Ukraine
> 
> - US official maps Russian targets in Ukraine
> 
> - The Russian invasion.. Europe summons the ambassador of Moscow and the Czech Republic suspends visas
> 
> - What does Russia want from Ukraine? .. "Grades" Putin's frightening weapon
> 
> - Ukraine: Russia has arrived near Chernobyl and a fight around a military airport
> 
> - "F-35" lands in Romania, and a European warning not to support Ukraine
> The Russian invasion... the president of Ukraine fears for his life
> 
> - A Turkish ship was bombed off the coast of Odessa
> 
> - US expert: Putin misunderstood the situation in Ukraine
> 
> - Russia announces the outcome of its military strikes in Ukraine
> 
> - The map of destruction in the Ukraine war... Russia threatens the "angry people"
> 
> - Ukraine's attack worries the Baltic states... Is it Stalin's curse?
> 
> - A tendency to withdraw the Champions League final from Russia
> 
> - The Russian-Ukrainian war... the madness of numbers sweeping the world (instant update)
> 
> - Belarus offers to mediate in the Ukraine crisis.. Will we see "Minsk 3"?
> 
> - Oil from the pandemic to the Russian-Ukrainian war... the $100 trip
> 
> - The moment the Russian flag was raised in Nova Kakhova, southern Ukraine
> 
> - Denis Pushlin and Leonid Bashnik... The emergence of the leaders of Donetsk and Luhansk
> 
> - Ukraine requests Turkey's help in the war against Russia.. How?
> 
> - The Russian-Ukrainian war .. 30 strikes from Moscow and the downing of a plane to Kiev
> 
> - The worst-case scenario for Ukraine under the military superiority of the Russian army
> 
> - The Iraqi community in Ukraine... Vacations and a hotline
> 
> - The Russian-Ukrainian war .. the city defender wishes the “harder death” for Putin
> 
> - When will the Russian war in Ukraine end? .. The Kremlin answers
> 
> - Russia's losses in the Ukraine war... the collapse of the stock market, the ruble, and sanctions on the horizon
> 
> - Russia and Ukraine .. a message from NATO and an emergency summit
> 
> - The latest news of Russia and Ukraine.. Putin's army is on the outskirts of Kiev
> 
> - A list of products affected by the Russian-Ukrainian war... the painful bill
> 
> - NATO moves east after the outbreak of the Russo-Ukrainian war
> 
> - World War III.. Russia punishes Ukraine with electricity and reassures Europe with gas
> 
> - The Russo-Ukrainian war is expanding by sea, by air and by land
> 
> - The flames of war burn the neighboring countries of Ukraine.. closure, emergency, and preparedness for the displaced
> 
> - The Russian-Ukrainian war: Explosions hit Kiev, targeting the Ministry of Defense
> 
> - World War III .. "Twitter" ignites with the Russian attack against Ukraine
> 
> - The last of which is in Ukraine.. 4 wars in Putin's life
> 
> - The Russian-Ukrainian war ignites oil... a record high for Aramco's stock
> 
> - Sudan denies supporting Putin's decision on Donetsk and Luhansk
> 
> - The Russian-Ukrainian war: Putin's goals and expected scenarios
> 
> - World War III.. Wheat ships suspended and an imminent food crisis
> 
> - Video.. The delegate of Ukraine asks a "fiery" question to his Russian counterpart in the Security Council
> 
> - Ukraine's president seeks help from the world and cuts ties with Russia
> 
> - A Russian military convoy is moving from the Crimea towards Ukraine
> 
> - The Russian war stops the Ukrainian League
> 
> - Ukrainian army: About 50 Russians were killed and 6 planes destroyed in the east of the country
> 
> - The West is preparing to respond to Russia... a threat, a threat, and demands to stop the attack
> 
> - Madness afflicts the world's markets... the repercussions of the Russian-Ukrainian war
> 
> - The Russian-Ukrainian war.. Has Belarus entered the line?
> 
> - The President of Ukraine confronts the invasion in drama and reality.. "The servant of the people" comes out of the screen
> 
> - Can America impose oil sanctions on Russia? .. The complex calculations of the war
> 
> - Russia talks about the escape of Ukrainian soldiers... and reassures civilians
> 
> .- Russian Targets Bank..Ukrainian cities that were bombed
> 
> - Oil prices above $103 a barrel following the Russian war on Ukraine
> 
> - Crazy rise in gold prices .. the safe shield for investors in the war of Russia and Ukraine
> 
> - What will NATO do after the Russian war in Ukraine?
> 
> - The first outcome of Russia's war in Ukraine. 7 dead and 9 injured
> 
> - Russia begins ground invasion of eastern Ukraine
> 
> - Russia-Ukraine war.. Separatist forces announce the downing of two fighter jets to Kiev
> 
> - The repercussions of the Russian war in Ukraine .. the collapse of the ruble and the “central” intervenes
> 
> - Putin uses America's tactics against Ukraine... Is he launching a Russian "Desert Storm"?
> 
> - The repercussions of the Russian war in Ukraine... the shock of the financial markets
> 
> - Why did Russia launch war on Ukraine? .. "Nebenzia" answers
> 
> - Live broadcast.. Russian war in Ukraine
> 
> - It fell into the hands of Russia.. Ukraine admits losing control of some areas
> 
> - Ukraine calls for military, financial and humanitarian support
> 
> - The Russian military operation in Ukraine is bombing the markets.. Where will the war lead?
> 
> - The Russian war in Ukraine .. Moscow raises the pace of the offensive and the West is preparing to confront
> 
> - Ukraine: Intense Russian bombing of military units, control centers and airports
> 
> - Ukraine announces the downing of 5 Russian planes and helicopter in Luhansk
> 
> - The invasion of Ukraine confuses the accounts of airlines, airport paralysis and a European warning
> 
> - The Russian-Ukrainian war... Has Putin fallen into the American trap?
> 
> - Invasion of Ukraine .. a cyber attack on banks and temporary suspension of services
> 
> - Ukraine's president makes an urgent appeal to his countrymen
> 
> - Humanity's Appeal: Guterres appeals to Putin to "stop the war now"
> 
> - The first Ukrainian comment after the start of the Russian military operation
> 
> - Biden: America and its allies will respond in a united and decisive manner
> 
> - The war has begun... "terrifying" explosions in Ukrainian cities
> 
> Coinciding with the Security Council meeting, Putin announces a military operation in Ukraine
> 
> - Anger and accusations against Russia... Frustration at the emergency meeting of the Security Council on Ukraine
> 
> - War is approaching.. Zelensky shocks Ukrainians, explosions resound in Donetsk
> 
> - European sanctions against the Russian defense minister .. and France withdraws its nationals
> 
> - New satellite images.. What is happening on the Russian-Ukrainian border?
> 
> - Reuters: Ukraine is exposed to a new wave of cyber attacks
> 
> - The Kremlin: The leaders of Luhansk and Donetsk asked to repel the aggression of Ukraine
> 
> - Washington confirms "zero hour" is approaching... and weapons are flowing into Ukrainians


WTF is all of that? An entire history of Earth? 

You know what's great about this? China wasn't even mentioned once. That's exactly how I like it, China is back in stealth mode.

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Haha Haha:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497042959186870277


ZeEa5KPul said:


> WTF is all of that? An entire history of Earth?
> 
> You know what's great about this? China wasn't even mentioned once. That's exactly how I like it, China is back in stealth mode.


Something like that..lol

Yes China is in stealth mode for now!..

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

The SC said:


> Latest Russia and Ukraine news in instant coverage:
> 
> - France is moving to deploy soldiers in Romania .. and supports Ukraine with 300 million euros
> 
> - European Union: Sanctions target 70% of the Russian banking sector
> 
> - Germany seeks to boost military spending after Russia invades Ukraine
> 
> - America and Albania are moving in the Security Council .. a vote against Russia
> 
> - Japan announces toughening sanctions against Russia
> 
> - Zelensky: Ukraine was "left alone" against Russia
> 
> - An American official reveals the mechanism of sanctions against Russia: economic restrictions and strategic isolation
> 
> - The first day of the Russia-Ukraine war... an attack from 3 fronts and a stabilization of feet
> 
> - Ukraine announces general mobilization, and Washington mobilizes for a "collective condemnation" against Russia
> 
> - In response to the Ukraine war... "enormous" European sanctions against Russia
> 
> - Displaced people and refugees in the Ukraine war... the United Nations reveals the outcome
> 
> - When will Kiev fall?... Shocking Western expectations
> 
> - Russian forces approach the Ukrainian capital, Kiev
> 
> - The US Treasury: We are targeting the Russian economy, and this is the list of sanctions
> 
> - Biden threatens Putin with harsh sanctions and rules out a military confrontation with Russia
> 
> - Ukraine announces the toll of its losses on the first day of the war
> 
> - The fake war in Ukraine .. 5 scenes that deceived the audience
> 
> - Turkish and US Defense Ministers discuss Ukraine developments
> 
> - How will football be affected in the event of World War III?
> 
> - Chernobyl reactor... The station between disasters and wars
> 
> - The Ukrainian presidency announces that Russian forces have taken control of the Chernobyl plant
> 
> - The latest developments of the Russian-Ukrainian war.. What did Moscow achieve from Thursday's goals?
> 
> - What does Russia's exclusion from the SWIFT system mean?
> 
> - Ukraine: Our forces sacrifice their lives to prevent a repeat of the Chernobyl disaster
> 
> - Putin: There were no alternatives to the military operation in Ukraine
> 
> - US official maps Russian targets in Ukraine
> 
> - The Russian invasion.. Europe summons the ambassador of Moscow and the Czech Republic suspends visas
> 
> - What does Russia want from Ukraine? .. "Grades" Putin's frightening weapon
> 
> - Ukraine: Russia has arrived near Chernobyl and a fight around a military airport
> 
> - "F-35" lands in Romania, and a European warning not to support Ukraine
> The Russian invasion... the president of Ukraine fears for his life
> 
> - A Turkish ship was bombed off the coast of Odessa
> 
> - US expert: Putin misunderstood the situation in Ukraine
> 
> - Russia announces the outcome of its military strikes in Ukraine
> 
> - The map of destruction in the Ukraine war... Russia threatens the "angry people"
> 
> - Ukraine's attack worries the Baltic states... Is it Stalin's curse?
> 
> - A tendency to withdraw the Champions League final from Russia
> 
> - The Russian-Ukrainian war... the madness of numbers sweeping the world (instant update)
> 
> - Belarus offers to mediate in the Ukraine crisis.. Will we see "Minsk 3"?
> 
> - Oil from the pandemic to the Russian-Ukrainian war... the $100 trip
> 
> - The moment the Russian flag was raised in Nova Kakhova, southern Ukraine
> 
> - Denis Pushlin and Leonid Bashnik... The emergence of the leaders of Donetsk and Luhansk
> 
> - Ukraine requests Turkey's help in the war against Russia.. How?
> 
> - The Russian-Ukrainian war .. 30 strikes from Moscow and the downing of a plane to Kiev
> 
> - The worst-case scenario for Ukraine under the military superiority of the Russian army
> 
> - The Iraqi community in Ukraine... Vacations and a hotline
> 
> - The Russian-Ukrainian war .. the city defender wishes the “harder death” for Putin
> 
> - When will the Russian war in Ukraine end? .. The Kremlin answers
> 
> - Russia's losses in the Ukraine war... the collapse of the stock market, the ruble, and sanctions on the horizon
> 
> - Russia and Ukraine .. a message from NATO and an emergency summit
> 
> - The latest news of Russia and Ukraine.. Putin's army is on the outskirts of Kiev
> 
> - A list of products affected by the Russian-Ukrainian war... the painful bill
> 
> - NATO moves east after the outbreak of the Russo-Ukrainian war
> 
> - World War III.. Russia punishes Ukraine with electricity and reassures Europe with gas
> 
> - The Russo-Ukrainian war is expanding by sea, by air and by land
> 
> - The flames of war burn the neighboring countries of Ukraine.. closure, emergency, and preparedness for the displaced
> 
> - The Russian-Ukrainian war: Explosions hit Kiev, targeting the Ministry of Defense
> 
> - World War III .. "Twitter" ignites with the Russian attack against Ukraine
> 
> - The last of which is in Ukraine.. 4 wars in Putin's life
> 
> - The Russian-Ukrainian war ignites oil... a record high for Aramco's stock
> 
> - Sudan denies supporting Putin's decision on Donetsk and Luhansk
> 
> - The Russian-Ukrainian war: Putin's goals and expected scenarios
> 
> - World War III.. Wheat ships suspended and an imminent food crisis
> 
> - Video.. The delegate of Ukraine asks a "fiery" question to his Russian counterpart in the Security Council
> 
> - Ukraine's president seeks help from the world and cuts ties with Russia
> 
> - A Russian military convoy is moving from the Crimea towards Ukraine
> 
> - The Russian war stops the Ukrainian League
> 
> - Ukrainian army: About 50 Russians were killed and 6 planes destroyed in the east of the country
> 
> - The West is preparing to respond to Russia... a threat, a threat, and demands to stop the attack
> 
> - Madness afflicts the world's markets... the repercussions of the Russian-Ukrainian war
> 
> - The Russian-Ukrainian war.. Has Belarus entered the line?
> 
> - The President of Ukraine confronts the invasion in drama and reality.. "The servant of the people" comes out of the screen
> 
> - Can America impose oil sanctions on Russia? .. The complex calculations of the war
> 
> - Russia talks about the escape of Ukrainian soldiers... and reassures civilians
> 
> .- Russian Targets Bank..Ukrainian cities that were bombed
> 
> - Oil prices above $103 a barrel following the Russian war on Ukraine
> 
> - Crazy rise in gold prices .. the safe shield for investors in the war of Russia and Ukraine
> 
> - What will NATO do after the Russian war in Ukraine?
> 
> - The first outcome of Russia's war in Ukraine. 7 dead and 9 injured
> 
> - Russia begins ground invasion of eastern Ukraine
> 
> - Russia-Ukraine war.. Separatist forces announce the downing of two fighter jets to Kiev
> 
> - The repercussions of the Russian war in Ukraine .. the collapse of the ruble and the “central” intervenes
> 
> - Putin uses America's tactics against Ukraine... Is he launching a Russian "Desert Storm"?
> 
> - The repercussions of the Russian war in Ukraine... the shock of the financial markets
> 
> - Why did Russia launch war on Ukraine? .. "Nebenzia" answers
> 
> - Live broadcast.. Russian war in Ukraine
> 
> - It fell into the hands of Russia.. Ukraine admits losing control of some areas
> 
> - Ukraine calls for military, financial and humanitarian support
> 
> - The Russian military operation in Ukraine is bombing the markets.. Where will the war lead?
> 
> - The Russian war in Ukraine .. Moscow raises the pace of the offensive and the West is preparing to confront
> 
> - Ukraine: Intense Russian bombing of military units, control centers and airports
> 
> - Ukraine announces the downing of 5 Russian planes and helicopter in Luhansk
> 
> - The invasion of Ukraine confuses the accounts of airlines, airport paralysis and a European warning
> 
> - The Russian-Ukrainian war... Has Putin fallen into the American trap?
> 
> - Invasion of Ukraine .. a cyber attack on banks and temporary suspension of services
> 
> - Ukraine's president makes an urgent appeal to his countrymen
> 
> - Humanity's Appeal: Guterres appeals to Putin to "stop the war now"
> 
> - The first Ukrainian comment after the start of the Russian military operation
> 
> - Biden: America and its allies will respond in a united and decisive manner
> 
> - The war has begun... "terrifying" explosions in Ukrainian cities
> 
> Coinciding with the Security Council meeting, Putin announces a military operation in Ukraine
> 
> - Anger and accusations against Russia... Frustration at the emergency meeting of the Security Council on Ukraine
> 
> - War is approaching.. Zelensky shocks Ukrainians, explosions resound in Donetsk
> 
> - European sanctions against the Russian defense minister .. and France withdraws its nationals
> 
> - New satellite images.. What is happening on the Russian-Ukrainian border?
> 
> - Reuters: Ukraine is exposed to a new wave of cyber attacks
> 
> - The Kremlin: The leaders of Luhansk and Donetsk asked to repel the aggression of Ukraine
> 
> - Washington confirms "zero hour" is approaching... and weapons are flowing into Ukrainians


One hell of update fella


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496908030545383429

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Dariush the Great

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497042959186870277


Ukrainians and their supporters are very funny. The only reason Kiev is still in some peace is because the Russians care about their image. One or two more of these shoot downs and Ukraine will be turned into Grozny 2.0.


----------



## HydNizam

Ghost of kyiv 
Mig29 of Ukraine shot down 6 Russian aircraft . 2 su 35 , 1 su 27 , 1 mig 29 . 2 Su 25

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## F-22Raptor

Dariush the Great said:


> Ukrainians and their supporters are very funny. The only reason Kiev is still in some peace is because the Russians care about their image. One or two more of these shoot downs and Ukraine will be turned into Grozny 2.0.



So your condoning Russian war crimes in Kiev?


----------



## Daniel808

Moving South at Full Speed after conquering Chernobyl.
This is pincer movement toward Kiev, the other one from Chernihiv direction


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497001745649651722

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496982192324550656


Khanate said:


> Standard response from the US, UK, EU, NATO, UN and the entire world:





Khanate said:


> View attachment 818411



😅

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
13


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## ZeEa5KPul

F-22Raptor said:


> So your condoning Russian war crimes in Kiev?


Nobody condones Russia do anything beyond what America did in Iraq. You set the example.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


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## thetutle

Tamerlane said:


> The main significance of this war is that Russia has finally given up trying to be friends with the Anglo-Zionist controlled West. It's a huge change for Russia that, for all of its history, has been trying to be accepted as a mainstream European country.
> 
> It could have been an opportunity for the Muslim world to ally itself with Russia, and China. Unfortunately, Muslims are little more than chickens in cages waiting for their turn to be slaughtered.
> 
> Turkey is the only Muslim country that can take charge. But for that Turkey will have to make a bold decision like Russia and break away from NATO and the West.
> 
> Turkey can build an alliance of Muslim countries including Iran, Pakistan and the Central Asian republics. It would be a formidable alliance. It is imperative to bring in Iran.
> 
> This Muslim alliance will be friends with Russia and China. Russia provides military strength and China provides economic strength.
> 
> The Arabs can decide for themselves when they want to give up their friendship with the Anglo-Zionists.



I dont think you understand that Turkey out of nato would probably be invaded by Russia and half the country given to Armenia. Russia still holds Ottoman lands. 

Turkey is not going anywhere out of nato. 

Central Asian republics are Russian controlled puppets. Any independent thinking and they end up like Ukraine.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

If Russia retakes 65% of Ukraine and leaves 35% they would be very generous



thetutle said:


> I dont think you understand that Turkey out of nato would probably be invaded by Russia and half the country given to Armenia. Russia still holds Ottoman lands.
> 
> Turkey is not going anywhere out of nato.
> 
> Central Asian republics are Russian controlled puppets. Any independent thinking and they end up like Ukraine.



Oh but they were not good enough for F35 Oh we remember that play
Remember when , NATO use to prop up Turkey and say , go go do something we got your back , and offered F-35 , when Turkey invested money and time , and it was time for them to get F35 , oh we all know what happened

Erdogan was called "Illogical" for humanitarian work in Syria oh , I remember that like yesterday

And the currency devaluation and people made fun of Turkey look like economy is going bonkers cuz you went in Syria

Now Turkey is very important friend again, my oh my , how important is Turkey now

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Dariush the Great

F-22Raptor said:


> So your condoning Russian war crimes in Kiev?


My post was literally about Russia going easy on Kiev (Ukraine) and yet you present such ridiculous comment.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Song Hong

Now Zelensky say willing to go neutral.









Video: Rattled Zelensky ready to talk terms with Putin for 'neutral status' | Daily Mail Online


A visibly shaken President Zelensky addressed Ukraine explaining that he was the number one target for Russian forces, and that he was willing to discuss Russian demands for neutral status of Ukraine.




www.dailymail.co.uk

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496973241243639811


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497046332812718083


----------



## Brainsucker

KAL-EL said:


> You almost sound surprised? Ukraine militarily is no match for Russia.
> 
> Let's not act like Russia is taking on some worthy adversary.



Well yes, but Ukraine is comparable to Iraq and Afghanistan. If Russia win this war smoothly, then they get the same prestige as United States in term of military capability.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497038519600300035

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497030741556965384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497034856429404162

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497031514424758275


----------



## Khanate

RT: Ukraine ready to discuss neutrality, Zelensky says​
Accusing the West of leaving Ukraine to face Moscow alone, President Volodymyr Zelensky said Friday he was not afraid to negotiate about ending the Russian _“invasion,”_ but would need security guarantees to do so.

Speaking in the early hours of the morning from Kiev, Zelensky said he had reached out to _“partners”_ in the West to tell them Ukraine’s fate was at stake.

_“*I asked them – are you with us*?”_ Zelensky said. _“They answered that they are with us, but they don’t want to take us into the alliance. *I’ve asked 27 leaders of Europe, if Ukraine will be in NATO, I’ve asked them directly — all are afraid and did not respond*” 

“*We were left by ourselves. Who is ready to go to war for us? Honestly, I don’t see anybody. Who is ready to give Ukraine guarantees of NATO membership? Honestly, everybody is afraid*,”_ the Ukrainian president added.



Tamerlane said:


> --Russia will conquer Ukraine and stabilize it.
> --They will install a pro-Russia president
> --The new ruler will sign a bunch of agreements with Russia
> ------Ukraine will never join NATO
> ------Russians in Ukraine will be protected
> -----Some Russian majority territories may become semi-autonomous
> -----Recognize Crimea as part of Russia
> --After that Russian forces will withdraw, apart from some for training




Expect Russia to hang a few Azov leaders to prove Ukraine has been de-nazified

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Haha Haha:
1


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## NA71

Daniel808 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497038519600300035
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497030741556965384
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497034856429404162
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497031514424758275


this is what happened when US/NATO pushes a country into war and and watching the game from safe distance.


----------



## Song Hong

I dont even expect western Ukraine (mix polish) will defend the regime.

Who is going to die for a bunch of thieves, who steal all the monies and prostitutes the Urainian girls into whorehouse of Amsterdam.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497047002697244673

Sounds like a Russian bomber. Its to slow for a fighter, and missiles don't sound like that


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496941845812760577
Nice.. but not the whole truth.. Russia just doesn't want NATO knocking on its door.. It's too close for comfort!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Once fully fueled up may be we will see this battle ?
Or will it remain in full stealth mode in battle field at distance

Let us know if 1 of the F-35 is out there close to Ukraine , Zaleski is literally crying on TV


----------



## Daniel808

Brainsucker said:


> Well yes, but Ukraine is comparable to Iraq and Afghanistan. If Russia win this war smoothly, then they get the same prestige as United States in term of military capability.



Ukraine is not Iraq nor Afghan Taliban.

At that time, more than half of Iraq population hate their own government (Saddam Hussein), because majority of Iraq especially in Southern and Central area is Shia islam. While Saddam Hussein & their officers is from Sunni.

And also Ukraine have access to Top Tier Soviet & Russian Equipment (before 2014) in their Armed Forces, while Iraq Saddam needs to depends on monkey model (Downgrade) version of Soviet equipment.

They are both in different level

Reactions: Like Like:
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## FuturePAF

Foinikas said:


> Man how did the Russians destroy the Ukrainian Air Defence so fast and so easily?



1. As the OEM, they knew much of the weaknesses of the systems the Ukrainians operated.
2. Careful and through reconnaissance
3. They probably set up many of the systems during the Soviet era

Also, Russia only fired 160 major projectiles at Ukraine today. This is not the hundreds and hundreds of cruise missiles fired in either gulf war. Both nations are relatively modestly equipped for war. Heck, most of Europe is only moderately equipped for war.

If push came to shove, how many European nations (in their current state) could resist the onslaught of what the Russians threw at the Ukrainians today? Perhaps only a handful.

Even the once mighty Germans would be stretched, and barely have the air defense to resist on their own. Most German tanks are in reserve and the serviceability of their Air Force leaves much to be desired.

Most developed nations are geared towards economic growth rather then maintaining a large standing army with a robust air defense.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496752029254905858


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497051722069553191

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2


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## hualushui

F-22Raptor said:


> So your condoning Russian war crimes in Kiev?

Reactions: Like Like:
6


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## WebMaster

Khanate said:


> RT: Ukraine ready to discuss neutrality, Zelensky says​
> Accusing the West of leaving Ukraine to face Moscow alone, President Volodymyr Zelensky said Friday he was not afraid to negotiate about ending the Russian _“invasion,”_ but would need security guarantees to do so.
> 
> Speaking in the early hours of the morning from Kiev, Zelensky said he had reached out to _“partners”_ in the West to tell them Ukraine’s fate was at stake.
> 
> _“*I asked them – are you with us*?”_ Zelensky said. _“They answered that they are with us, but they don’t want to take us into the alliance. *I’ve asked 27 leaders of Europe, if Ukraine will be in NATO, I’ve asked them directly — all are afraid and did not respond*”
> 
> “*We were left by ourselves. Who is ready to go to war for us? Honestly, I don’t see anybody. Who is ready to give Ukraine guarantees of NATO membership? Honestly, everybody is afraid*,”_ the Ukrainian president added.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Expect Russia to hang a few Azov leaders to prove Ukraine has been de-nazified


Bechara man, poor guy. We are with you, but you have to fight on your own, oh and supplies are a bit delayed waiting for approval sorry man.

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## AZMwi

dBSPL said:


> *BREAKING :Western Officials: We expect Kiev to fall within hours: (Bloomberg)
> 
> "The majority of Ukrainian air defense systems are out of order."
> 
> 
> A large number of military cargo planes from Turkey set out for Kiev.*


Turkey is playing a dangerous game. Nato is an untrustworthy alliance.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497047289923354624


----------



## Daniel808

Shooting plane over crowded residential area.

Stupid 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497047399692480519

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## Kraetoz

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497047289923354624


So 27 European leaders are scared of Russian retaliation.

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## Daniel808

Kraetoz said:


> So 27 European leaders are scared of Russian retaliation.






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496941831824760836

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497009511311282176

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496537480388136960

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## kuge

Beast said:


> Dogfight of Su-35 (Russia) vs MIg-29 (UKraine)


i wish the pilots recorded & shared the duel from their cams...


----------



## maverick1977

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-news-02-24-22-intl/h_7f8d64c0dd3aaf8cff382cedd177de81



Us consulting India ? wth ?

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## AZMwi

F-22Raptor said:


> NATO will grow even stronger in Europe, and Russia will now have a permanent enemy in Ukraine. RUssia doesn’t have the military capability to suppress Ukraine over the long term. Putin is hoping to oppress the Ukrainian people and that’s a huge assumption.
> 
> The Russian economy will also get wrecked.
> 
> Huge blunder for Putin and Russian long term prospects


Nato is exposed. Get ready for Chinese invasion of taiwan mate.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497017441288916994

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497044093310205954


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496783097534111746

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## Messerschmitt

Beast said:


> Dogfight of Su-35 (Russia) vs MIg-29 (UKraine)


Two Mig-29.


----------



## beijingwalker

Zelenskyy: Ukraine 'left alone' to fight Russia​

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## Bleek




----------



## Meengla

MH.Yang said:


> I think the opposite. Russia's biggest mistake is to recognize the independence of eastern Ukraine, which is a real harm to the international order.
> If Russia organizes and arms the eastern Ukrainian army, and even sends hundreds of thousands of troops to join the eastern Ukrainian army in the name of volunteers, and then overthrows the Ukrainian government. This is acceptable, because this is a civil war under the national framework of Ukraine.


Great point. Surprised no one gave any Thanks or something to your message.
Indeed, it sees strange to recognize the two republics in Donbass-- a clear violation of international order--only to be followed by something like a full invasion which would make the two republics' recognition redundant. What was Putin thinking?? Has something got under his skin too much?

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## Kraetoz

beijingwalker said:


> Zelenskyy: Ukraine 'left alone' to fight Russia​


Soon we would see the same speech but it would be Modi who would be delivering the speech.

That is what you get for getting in bed with the US.

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## kingQamaR

The javelins are the key. Flood the Ukrainian army with them


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Is this white bhosphrous (latest strikes in kiev)


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497043495118417931


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496782760995803137


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497056560774000643


----------



## Han Patriot

HydNizam said:


> Ghost of kyiv
> Mig29 of Ukraine shot down 6 Russian aircraft . 2 su 35 , 1 su 27 , 1 mig 29 . 2 Su 25


They need to create a myth that they are winning, it's just typical propaganda to boost morale. Lol

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## MH.Yang

F-22Raptor said:


> I'm talking about capability, not geopolitics.
> 
> 
> I'm just saying the US has the capability to fire huge amounts of precision guided munitions on Russian targets and within minutes. The US also has ridiculous battlespace awareness and targeting capability.



OK. If USA and Russia fight directly, we Chinese will run underground asylum projects and hide for a few years. Anyway, our grain reserve ranks first in the world. 
Our refuge project began construction in 1969 and now can accommodate about 200 million urban people. How about the Asylum Project in USA.

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## Han Patriot

F-22Raptor said:


> So your condoning Russian war crimes in Kiev?


I am condoning US war. Crimes in Iraq and also US is does not recognjze the war crime tribunal lolol

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## Kraetoz

HydNizam said:


> Ghost of kyiv
> Mig29 of Ukraine shot down 6 Russian aircraft . 2 su 35 , 1 su 27 , 1 mig 29 . 2 Su 25


India made huge mistake getting those Raphaaals. Mig21 also shot down shahz ud din's F16.

Mig series is invincible.

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## Oldman1

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Breaking news: The Russians have retaken Hostomel.


No, the Russian survivors fled into the forest after losing the airport. Only a few miles away, the Ukrainians fought hard to retake it to prevent any heavy reinforcements from landing there. The Russian airborne troops tried to hold as long as possible, but the counterattack was too fast.



FairAndUnbiased said:


> It took weeks to reach Baghdad during the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Ukraine is far more powerful than Iraq so Russian progress is incredibly rapid.


Well Baghdad is far...


----------



## F-22Raptor

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497056560774000643



Weren't Ukrainian Su-27s all destroyed at this point? A lot of conflicting info about this

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## Oldman1

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496782760995803137


Thats in Afghanistan and the U.S. Apache was firing on the Taliban.


----------



## MH.Yang

jamal18 said:


> Will somebody explain the end game?
> 
> So Russia will be running a country of 50 million Ukrainians who hate them with years of counter insurgency?
> 
> Some one tell me because I don't understand.


Have you found that now-Chechens are the most loyal and powerful army in the Russian army? 
Did you find that the Vietnamese in the south are more proud of the victory of the Vietnam War?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496671878806917120
Oh yes.. and take the Russian share in the world arms sales..that's a big share as it comes second to the US.. China beware!.. This is a politico-business war..


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497056666071748609


Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Is this white bhosphrous (latest strikes in kiev)
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497043495118417931




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497044257634496559


----------



## Joe Shearer

Oldman1 said:


> I've seen Russians that look Asian........


Russians are Asian. Just as some of them are European.


----------



## Oldman1

Aesterix said:


> Yeah, more reasons for Putum to launch air raids on urban areas. Ukraine has gone full retard.


That just only make the Ukrainians fight harder.


----------



## HAIDER

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497047289923354624


You know why......


----------



## maverick1977

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496783097534111746


who is this guy ?


----------



## Oldman1

Dariush the Great said:


> It is not even 24 hours yet entire Ukraine is in panic and on the verge of defeat.
> The US with the support of the entire world took 3 weeks to defeat a surrendered and impoverished Iraq.


As some posters mentioned, its past 24 hours and Ukraine still fighting. What happened to collapsing within 24 hours some claimed?


----------



## Song Hong

War as good as over. Boris Johnson exalting "Government in Exile" for Zelensky.

I do not even think the Ukies will fight post-bellum. The Ukraine pro US status quo too corrupt. No will is willing to lay down their life.










Boris Johnson says UK will support Ukrainian government ‘in exile’


Britain has always supported ‘governments in exile’, says PM




www.independent.co.uk

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## Oldman1

Trench Broom said:


> Wow, that is amazing that for 8 years since Crimea they haven't invested in missiles. Sad.
> 
> 
> The logic is, if he expands westwards he encounters more NATO nations. So his excuse for invasion is bogus. Ukraine isn't in NATO and discussions on this had basically ended.
> So Russia takes Ukraine and all of a sudden, it has NATO members on its borders. Guess what Russia needs to do then for 'security'....take out Poland etc.


And just a few hours ago, the Ukrainian President finally called for mass mobilization, long after the invasion started...So you can see why they didn't take the threat seriously besides saying Russia won't invade even though the U.S. says they will...

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## Daniel808

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497056666071748609
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497044257634496559



Very doubtful.
All Russian & Pro-Russian Separatist mark Z insignia in their vehicle to prevent friendly fire.

There is NO Z insignia in that vehicles, so its probably from ukraine side

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## Meengla

Dariush the Great said:


> It is not even 24 hours yet entire Ukraine is in panic and on the verge of defeat.
> The US with the support of the entire world took 3 weeks to defeat a surrendered and impoverished Iraq.


 
Iraqis would and did die for their country in large numbers. I had seen an account of American forces that hopeless Iraqi soldiers charged with very light weapons against American troops and were slaughtered; the Americans were sad to have killed them but also admired their foolhardy courage. In the end the Elite forces of Saddam abandoned him--or bought off--when Baghdad was about to fall. But later Iraqis launched a guerilla war despite no or very little foreign help. Compare them with the pink-a$$ed Ukrainians??'

If the statement coming out of Zelenskly's mouth that Ukraine has been 'left alone' is true then shame on him for leading his country to ruin when he must have known about the lack of real foreign support! All that MOFO had to do was to sign a written agreement to not enter NATO or any alliance for/against anyone. Even Ashraf Ghani looks better than the Ukrainian leader now; at least Ghani saw the futility of resistance and bowed out, leading to one of the most peaceful takeover of a very large capital city in history.

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## Messerschmitt

Daniel808 said:


> Very doubtful.
> All Russian & Pro-Russian Separatist mark Z insignia in their vehicle to prevent friendly fire.
> 
> There is NO Z insignia in that vehicles, so its probably from ukraine side


No, not all of their vehicles were marked with 'Z'.


----------



## Daniel808

F-22Raptor said:


> Weren't Ukrainian Su-27s all destroyed at this point? A lot of conflicting info about this



They still have plenty Su-27 and bunch of MIG-29.
Some of their Su-27 even run away to Romania yesterday


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497053028171534336


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497051595980230660


----------



## Daniel808

Another photo from the ground, Damn that Civilian casualties must be high


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497061158276190209

Now, Ukraine claim that's a Kalibr missile. WTF !
Ukies seems didn't know what's they shot


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497054099790991361


----------



## dBSPL

Two residential buildings in Kyiv are on fire from intercepted unidentified enemy aircraft. According to the State Emergency Service of Ukraine, there is a risk of demolition. Buildings that were hit by the debris are on 7A Koshytsia Street.


----------



## HAIDER

Meengla said:


> Iraqis would and did die for their country in large numbers. I had seen an account of American forces that hopeless Iraqi soldiers charged with very light weapons against American troops and were slaughtered; the Americans were sad to have killed them but also admired their foolhardy courage. In the end the Elite forces of Saddam abandoned him--or bought off--when Baghdad was about to fall. But later Iraqis launched a guerilla war despite no or very little foreign help. Compare them with the pink-a$$ed Ukrainians??'
> 
> If the statement coming out of Zelenskly's mouth that Ukraine has been 'left alone' is true then shame on him for leading his country to ruin when he must have known about the lack of real foreign support! All that MOFO had to do was to sign a written agreement to not enter NATO or any alliance for/against anyone. Even Ashraf Ghani looks better than the Ukrainian leader now; at least Ghani saw the futility of resistance and bowed out, leading to one of the most peaceful takeover of a very large capital city in history.


Remind me Indian song ... a perfect fit for Ukraine presented to NATO..

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## dBSPL

Daniel808 said:


> Very doubtful.
> All Russian & Pro-Russian Separatist mark Z insignia in their vehicle to prevent friendly fire.
> 
> There is NO Z insignia in that vehicles, so its probably from ukraine side


lol. Vehicle is Russian Army MRAP Kamaz Typhoon. I hope you are aware.

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## Daniel808

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497056560774000643



From Firefighters on the ground.
Confirmed, It's a Kalibr Cruise Missile that shot down


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497064005919203328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497065140172300289


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Predicting Russia takes all the area one side of river

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## MH.Yang

Those who think Russia's economy will collapse may forget that China is the world's largest economy and market, not USA. Everything Russia exports, such as oil, natural gas, coal, iron ore, wheat and so on, is what China needs. China can even buy it all.

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## kingQamaR

Got a feeling russians bit off more than they can chew. They are not going to have an easy time. Putin made a blunder... A big one.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

He is biting 65% of Ukraine for sure
May be will leave little bit for Ukraine , but if he gets 100% who says he can't


----------



## Oldman1

Daniel808 said:


> Very doubtful.
> All Russian & Pro-Russian Separatist mark Z insignia in their vehicle to prevent friendly fire.
> 
> There is NO Z insignia in that vehicles, so its probably from ukraine side


Nope, DBSPL is right, it's definitely Russian Typhoon MRAP.

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## Genghis khan1

Ukrainian Top brass and/or President is an idiot. 
#1. They never believed Russians are serious about Invasion despite so many warnings. 
#2. They were hoping that rest of the NATO will support them, while all they US/UK did just sent them small arms and infantry weapons for guerrilla warfare instead of serious weapons. Which meant US and UK aren’t planning to defend Ukraine instead they wanted to use Ukraine as a burning pot for Russian army.

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## Messerschmitt

Daniel808 said:


> From Firefighters on the ground.
> Confirmed, It's a Kalibr Cruise Missile that shot down
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497064005919203328
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497065140172300289


Too early to tell. Just because debris of a cruise missile was recovered does not necessarily mean we are talking about the same interception.


----------



## Daniel808

MH.Yang said:


> Those who think Russia's economy will collapse may forget that China is the world's largest economy and market, not USA. Everything Russia exports, such as oil, natural gas, coal, iron ore, wheat and so on, is what China needs. China can even buy it all.



Yes, Imported Wheat quota from Ukraine already diverted for Russia.

They also have Gas Pipeline from the same field that pumping Gas for Europe. All the way to China

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497065421870088193

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497063763182239744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497065630574518274

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497066090727456768


----------



## Oldman1

Genghis khan1 said:


> Ukrainian Top brass and/or President is an idiot.
> #1. They never believed Russians are serious about Invasion despite so many warnings.
> #2. They were hoping that rest of the NATO will support them, while all they US/UK did just sent them small arms and infantry weapons for guerrilla warfare instead of serious weapons. Which meant US and UK aren’t planning to defend Ukraine instead they wanted to use Ukraine as a burning pot for Russian army.


The U.S. wanted to give them weapons to defend themselves but not to the point of giving IRBMs or Tomahawk missiles, something that Russia could use as a very good excuse to invade. However, Putin just using the words Nazis and Ukraine shouldn't have exist anyways was enough to invade the country.


----------



## Meengla

Song Hong said:


> War as good as over. Boris Johnson exalting "Government in Exile" for Zelensky.
> 
> I do not even think the Ukies will fight post-bellum. The Ukraine pro US status quo too corrupt. No will is willing to lay down their life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Boris Johnson says UK will support Ukrainian government ‘in exile’
> 
> 
> Britain has always supported ‘governments in exile’, says PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk



Hard to escape the thought that Zelensky wont be in Kiev for long!


----------



## KedarT

Meanwhile India MEA statement for students stranded in Ukraine:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496879689956470785

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## Oldman1

Genghis khan1 said:


> Ukrainian Top brass and/or President is an idiot.
> #1. They never believed Russians are serious about Invasion despite so many warnings.
> #2. They were hoping that rest of the NATO will support them, while all they US/UK did just sent them small arms and infantry weapons for guerrilla warfare instead of serious weapons. Which meant US and UK aren’t planning to defend Ukraine instead they wanted to use Ukraine as a burning pot for Russian army.


Also another thing, Biden has told the world that he wasn't going to defend Ukraine, even to protect American citizens that refuse to leave the country even though warned about possible invasion for long time.


----------



## Riea

r/bestoftheinternet - Statement from Putin


6,658 votes and 87 comments so far on Reddit




v.redd.it






New statement from putin.

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## Khanate

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497065817162272773


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496982012334419971



WebMaster said:


> Bechara man, poor guy. We are with you, but you have to fight on your own, oh and supplies are a bit delayed waiting for approval sorry man.




We saw this in East Pakistan.


----------



## Oldman1

Meengla said:


> Hard to escape the thought that Zelensky wont be in Kiev for long!



Better to live to fight another day.


----------



## dBSPL

China is a big economy, a big market, there's no doubt about that. But I'm starting to think that you're having trouble understanding the issue. For Russia, the point is not to survive, but to staying up. Russia means Eurasianism. This is a historical perspective and understanding of the world that it roots goes back to tsarism long before modern China, and Russia's isolation from Europe(and indirectly MENA) will negatively affect their sacred interests.

That's what the USA and Britain intended. They are trying to push Russia behind the iron curtain again. They have no thoughts of fighting.

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## Song Hong

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497066650205831168


----------



## ziaulislam

Tamerlane said:


> This is what we need,


Iran lol

While others are all dicatoror ships with weird leaders

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## Enigma SIG

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians will ultimately prevail, but this is about making this illegal invasion as painful as possible for the Russians.


I see the copium is in short supply.
Right from we'll grind the Russians in urban warfare to Russians will prevail lol. The US can only attack weak nations, it pisses it's pants when Russia comes into play.

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## beijingwalker

Russia-Ukraine conflict: Ukraine President Zelensky says 'left alone to fight'​


----------



## HAIDER

Oldman1 said:


> Also another thing, Biden has told the world that he wasn't going to defend Ukraine, even to protect American citizens that refuse to leave the country even though warned about possible invasion for long time.


Obviously, what's in Ukraine, no oil, no gold, no mineral resources ...... waste of time. Russia can have it.... US is not going to pay for NATO mobilization from his pocket. EU needs to stand to defend itself. At least now NATO will consider paying their share ...all financial burden on US.


----------



## Clutch

"Russian troops approach Kyiv as explosions heard across the Ukrainian capital" https://twitter.com/i/events/1483255084750282753?t=lvCxIrqh4JNtBRKQqBAc3A&s=09


----------



## kingQamaR

MH.Yang said:


> Those who think Russia's economy will collapse may forget that China is the world's largest economy and market, not USA. Everything Russia exports, such as oil, natural gas, coal, iron ore, wheat and so on, is what China needs. China can even buy it all.



There's plenty of countries Russia will go and do business with. Middle east countries, south American, China, India... These sanctions wont hurt much. Plus Ukraine has 5% of the worlds natural resources,

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## Oldman1

HAIDER said:


> Obviously, what's in Ukraine, no oil, no gold, no mineral resources ...... waste of time. Russia can have it.


Whatever it is in Ukraine, Russia going hard with most of its forces to take it.


----------



## HAIDER

Oldman1 said:


> Whatever it is in Ukraine, Russia going hard with most of its forces to take it.


Russia will not take the whole country, but it will take over the whole sea line..ports etc .. control energy generation units.


----------



## SIPRA

Enigma SIG said:


> I see the copium is in short supply.
> Right from we'll grind the Russians in urban warfare to Russians will prevail lol. The US can only attack weak nations, it pisses it's pants when Russia comes into play.



Biden nain US ko zaleel kara kay rukh diya hae.

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## Oldman1

HAIDER said:


> Russia will not take the whole country, but it will take over the whole sea line..ports etc .. control energy generation units.


Looks like they want to take the whole country.


----------



## Khanate

*'We should assume within 90 days, Putin will have Ukraine,' says retired Gen. Barry McCaffrey*


----------



## dBSPL

Oldman1 said:


> Also another thing, Biden has told the world that he wasn't going to defend Ukraine, even to protect American citizens that refuse to leave the country even though warned about possible invasion for long time.


Biden could be the weakest, most low-profile leader in US history.

But if the Ukrainian strategies work, the US will have fully consolidated eastern Europe, from the Baltic to Romania at almost no cost, by using Russian aggression. Thus, the dream of France's European army fails...

They set a country of 40 million people on fire, but who cares...

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## HAIDER

updated map of action ...

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## CrazyZ

Oldman1 said:


> Whatever it is in Ukraine, Russia going hard with most of its forces to take it.


Its the humans that Russia wants. Best way for Russia to counter demographic decline is to invade Ukraine (a country with similar ethnic and linguistic make up).


----------



## K Shehzad

Ukrainian forces battled Russian invaders on three sides on Thursday (Feb 24) after Moscow unleashed the biggest attack on a European state since World War II, prompting tens of thousands of people to flee their homes.

After Russian President Vladimir Putin declared war in a pre-dawn televised address, explosions and gunfire were heard through the day in Uraine’s capital and elsewhere in the country, with at least 70 people reported killed.

The assault brought a calamitous end to weeks of fruitless diplomatic efforts by Western leaders to avert war over Russian demands for a redrawing of post-Cold War security arrangements in Europe.
"This is a premeditated attack," US President Joe Biden told reporters at the White House as he unveiled harsh new sanctions, coordinated with allies, against Russian banks, oligarchs and state companies.

"Putin is the aggressor. Putin chose this war. And now he and his country will bear the consequences."

In his address, Putin said he had ordered "a special military operation" to protect people, including Russian citizens, subjected to "genocide" in Ukraine – an accusation the West calls baseless propaganda. 
"And for this we will strive for the demilitarisation and denazification of Ukraine," Putin said. 


After nightfall, a picture was emerging of fierce fighting across multiple fronts. President Volodymyr Zelenskiy late on Thursday ordered a general mobilisation, to be carried out within 90 days, "to ensure the defence of the state". 

An adviser to the Ukrainian presidential office said Russian forces had captured the Chernobyl former nuclear power plant, just 90km north of Kyiv.



> *The plant is along the shortest route from the Ukrainian capital to Belarus, where Moscow has staged troops.
> There was also fighting at Hostomel airport, just outside Kyiv, where Russian paratroopers landed. A Ukrainian official later said the airfield had been recaptured, while a senior US defence official said Russian forces were advancing closer to Kyiv. *



Heavy exchanges of fire were also reported in the regions of Sumy and Kharkiv in the north-east and Kherson in the south.

The highway heading west out of Kyiv was choked with traffic across five lanes as residents fled, fearful of bombardments while stuck in their cars.

The UN refugee agency said an estimated 100,000 Ukrainians had fled their homes and that several thousand crossed into neighbouring countries, mainly Romania and Moldova.

Some 57 people were killed and 169 were wounded on Thursday, Ukraine’s health minister said, while the interior ministry said 13 border guards died when a Russian vessel shelled Ukraine’s Zmiinyi Island, south of the Black Sea port of Odessa.

*'New iron curtain'*​The day had begun with missiles raining down on Ukrainian targets and authorities reporting columns of troops pouring across the borders from Russia and Belarus to the north and east.

President Volodymyr Zelensky called on Ukrainians to defend their country and said arms would be given to anyone prepared to fight.

"What we have heard today are not just missile blasts, fighting and the rumble of aircraft. This is the sound of a new Iron Curtain, which has come down and is closing Russia off from the civilised world," Zelensky said.
Putin, after referring earlier in his speech to Russia’s powerful nuclear arsenal, warned: "Whoever tries to hinder us... should know that Russia’s response will be immediate. And it will lead you to such consequences that you have never encountered in your history." 

Asked whether that threat was tantamount to threatening Russian use of nuclear weapons, Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said it was indeed understood as such, adding that Putin should also understand that Nato was a nuclear alliance. 

Biden has ruled out sending US troops to defend Ukraine, but Washington has reinforced its Nato allies in the region with extra troops and planes. 




After consulting counterparts from the Group of Seven leading industrialised nations, Biden announced measures to impede Russia's ability to do business in the world's major currencies, along with sanctions against banks and state-owned enterprises.

Britain also targeted banks, along with members of Putin's closest circle and super-rich Russians who enjoy high-rolling London lifestyles.

European Union leaders said measures would include freezing Russian assets in the 27-nation bloc, halting banks' access to European financial markets and hitting "Kremlin interests".
China remained out of step, however, rejecting the description of Russia's actions as an "invasion".

Russia is one of the world's biggest energy producers, and both it and Ukraine are among the top exporters of grain. War and sanctions will disrupt economies around the world already facing a supply crisis as they emerge from the coronavirus pandemic.

*European stocks dived to nine-month lows, but US stocks ended higher after Biden’s sanctions announcement. Brent oil earlier surged past US$100/barrel for the first time since 2014.
A democratic nation of 44 million people, Ukraine is Europe’s biggest country by area after Russia itself.*

It voted for independence at the fall of the Soviet Union and has recently stepped up efforts to join Nato and the European Union, aspirations that infuriate Moscow. 

Putin, who denied for months that he was planning an invasion, has called Ukraine an artificial construct carved from Russia by its enemies – a characterisation Ukrainians see as an attempt to erase their more than 1,000-year-old history.

While many Ukrainians, particularly in the east, speak Russian as a native language, virtually all identify themselves as Ukrainian. 





There was also some dissent in Russia. Police detained more than 1,600 taking part in anti-war rallies in 53 cities and authorities threatened to block media reports carrying "false information".

In the south-eastern port of Mariupol, near a frontline held by Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine, local authorities said 26 people were wounded in shelling. Civilians packed bags.

"We are going into hiding," a woman said. 
Ukraine’s ambassador to the United States, Oksana Markarova, said its forces had downed two Russian helicopters and seven other Russian aircraft and destroyed several Russian trucks, and a platoon from Russia’s 74th Motor Rifles Brigade had surrendered. 

Russia’s defence ministry said it had destroyed 83 land-based Ukrainian targets and had achieved all its goals, according to Interfax news agency. 

Protests against Russia’s invasion were held in Europe and the United States.

At a demonstration in New York’s Time Square, Ivana Lotoshynski, who was born in Ukraine, urged solidarity with Ukrainians. 

"People are losing their lives right now. Ukrainians are fighting against this regime from Russia and it’s really devastating," she said. "Today I think everybody is Ukrainian."


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## beijingwalker

Oldman1 said:


> Looks like they want to take the whole country.


I also wonder, hopefully not.


----------



## zartosht

*Breaking news:*

Watching the US/NATO protectorate of Ukraine getting absolutely pummeled, while the US whistles and looks the other way saying "they are not NATO, not my problem". 

Has resulted in a 10 fold increase in the price of adult diapers in Taiwan...

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## Tomcats

Here's a fairly accurate map from 12 hours back, not sure if this had been posted earlier.






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496861995353907202

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## Clutch

Oldman1 said:


> Looks like they want to take the whole country.



I don't think the Russians want to keep all of Ukraine. They will take most of it. Then retreat to the east with a buffer zone and independent nations of Donetsk and Luhansk.

The Russians do not want to fight a prolonged insurgency by occupying Ukraine... 

They will withdraw and leave behind a mental scar, "Never dare to think of joining Fascist NATO again!".

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497073167319322639

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## Oldman1

dBSPL said:


> Biden could be the weakest, most low-profile leader in US history.
> 
> But if the Ukrainian strategies work, the US will have fully consolidated eastern Europe, from the Baltic to Romania at almost no cost, by using Russian aggression. Thus, the dream of France's European army fails...
> 
> They set a country of 40 million people on fire, but who cares...


That he is. 

Ukrainian strategy could work if they consolidate their forces into urban areas as well as targeting supplies of the Russian forces as well as use successful tactics like mines and IEDs. But the problem is their Ukrainian president who didn't take the possible invasion seriously and didn't order a mobilization in the first place until long after the invasion which means many fighting men are in civilian clothes and don't have weapons and are out of position while the invasion is going on. So it all comes down to him if he still wants to fight after all the blunders. The Ukrainian forces are fighting hard, but you don't want to see their own President giving up. It be like the American colonists seeing General Washington looking hopeless and wants to give up to the British.

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## CrazyZ

dBSPL said:


> Biden could be the weakest, most low-profile leader in US history.
> 
> But if the Ukrainian strategies work, the US will have fully consolidated eastern Europe, from the Baltic to Romania at almost no cost, by using Russian aggression. Thus, the dream of France's European army fails...
> 
> They set a country of 40 million people on fire, but who cares...


Even a republican president would have yielded Ukraine. America is not in great shape at home.......the only thing both parties can agree on is not to get USA troops involved in a war over Ukraine. USA also does not have as much support abroad as it did in cold war 1. Its current core of allies....Quad+UK+Isreal is simply not strong enough to deal with Russia forget about countering Russia+China and a bunch of smaller Eurasian countries.

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## Khanate

Russian tanks moving through the Chernobyl zone to Kiev







The bridge blown up near the village of Ivankov









Song Hong said:


> Ukraine is famous for FEMEN. They can come out with bare breast in front of tanks and rifleman.
> 
> View attachment 818424




Equality takes a break during war


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496967765651075076


----------



## Vapnope

@Joe Shearer @T90TankGuy @MilSpec gentlemen, i would like to read your take on this issue. Thanks in advance.

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## Bleek

Just identify as a woman or non-binary and leave the country

Easy

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## Enigma SIG

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497073167319322639


Sounded like Godzilla screaming.

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## Daniel808

Khanate said:


> Russian tanks moving through the Chernobyl zone to Kiev
> 
> View attachment 818428
> 
> 
> The bridge blown up near the village of Ivankov
> 
> View attachment 818429
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Equality takes a break during war
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496967765651075076





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497069638345273345


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## kingQamaR

He calls Ukrainians a brother nation then destroys their country... I hate to think what he'd do to enemy nations.

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## dBSPL

Canada’s new sanctions target 31 individuals, as well as 27 banks and entities, all connected to Russia’s ruling elite. 

Canada has also canceled all export permits to Russia, which would curve about $750 million in Canadian exports and penalized 351 Russian lawmakers.

lol


----------



## The SC

maverick1977 said:


> who is this guy ?


He is an American political scientist and international relations scholar, who belongs to the realist school of thought..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mearsheimer


----------



## Oldman1

Enigma SIG said:


> Sounded like Godzilla screaming.


You mean like this?





Sounds like someone firing a gatling type gun for sure.


----------



## Enigma SIG

kingQamaR said:


> He calls Ukrainians a brother nation then destroys their country... I hate to think what he'd do to enemy nations.


Exactly like how the West massacred, maimed and killed with wanton abandon across the Middle east and Pakistan.

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## Clutch

K Shehzad said:


> Ukrainian forces battled Russian invaders on three sides on Thursday (Feb 24) after Moscow unleashed the biggest attack on a European state since World War II, prompting tens of thousands of people to flee their homes.
> 
> After Russian President Vladimir Putin declared war in a pre-dawn televised address, explosions and gunfire were heard through the day in Uraine’s capital and elsewhere in the country, with at least 70 people reported killed.
> 
> The assault brought a calamitous end to weeks of fruitless diplomatic efforts by Western leaders to avert war over Russian demands for a redrawing of post-Cold War security arrangements in Europe.
> "This is a premeditated attack," US President Joe Biden told reporters at the White House as he unveiled harsh new sanctions, coordinated with allies, against Russian banks, oligarchs and state companies.
> 
> "Putin is the aggressor. Putin chose this war. And now he and his country will bear the consequences."
> 
> In his address, Putin said he had ordered "a special military operation" to protect people, including Russian citizens, subjected to "genocide" in Ukraine – an accusation the West calls baseless propaganda.
> "And for this we will strive for the demilitarisation and denazification of Ukraine," Putin said.
> 
> 
> After nightfall, a picture was emerging of fierce fighting across multiple fronts. President Volodymyr Zelenskiy late on Thursday ordered a general mobilisation, to be carried out within 90 days, "to ensure the defence of the state".
> 
> An adviser to the Ukrainian presidential office said Russian forces had captured the Chernobyl former nuclear power plant, just 90km north of Kyiv.
> 
> 
> 
> Heavy exchanges of fire were also reported in the regions of Sumy and Kharkiv in the north-east and Kherson in the south.
> 
> The highway heading west out of Kyiv was choked with traffic across five lanes as residents fled, fearful of bombardments while stuck in their cars.
> 
> The UN refugee agency said an estimated 100,000 Ukrainians had fled their homes and that several thousand crossed into neighbouring countries, mainly Romania and Moldova.
> 
> Some 57 people were killed and 169 were wounded on Thursday, Ukraine’s health minister said, while the interior ministry said 13 border guards died when a Russian vessel shelled Ukraine’s Zmiinyi Island, south of the Black Sea port of Odessa.
> 
> *'New iron curtain'*​The day had begun with missiles raining down on Ukrainian targets and authorities reporting columns of troops pouring across the borders from Russia and Belarus to the north and east.
> 
> President Volodymyr Zelensky called on Ukrainians to defend their country and said arms would be given to anyone prepared to fight.
> 
> "What we have heard today are not just missile blasts, fighting and the rumble of aircraft. This is the sound of a new Iron Curtain, which has come down and is closing Russia off from the civilised world," Zelensky said.
> Putin, after referring earlier in his speech to Russia’s powerful nuclear arsenal, warned: "Whoever tries to hinder us... should know that Russia’s response will be immediate. And it will lead you to such consequences that you have never encountered in your history."
> 
> Asked whether that threat was tantamount to threatening Russian use of nuclear weapons, Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said it was indeed understood as such, adding that Putin should also understand that Nato was a nuclear alliance.
> 
> Biden has ruled out sending US troops to defend Ukraine, but Washington has reinforced its Nato allies in the region with extra troops and planes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After consulting counterparts from the Group of Seven leading industrialised nations, Biden announced measures to impede Russia's ability to do business in the world's major currencies, along with sanctions against banks and state-owned enterprises.
> 
> Britain also targeted banks, along with members of Putin's closest circle and super-rich Russians who enjoy high-rolling London lifestyles.
> 
> European Union leaders said measures would include freezing Russian assets in the 27-nation bloc, halting banks' access to European financial markets and hitting "Kremlin interests".
> China remained out of step, however, rejecting the description of Russia's actions as an "invasion".
> 
> Russia is one of the world's biggest energy producers, and both it and Ukraine are among the top exporters of grain. War and sanctions will disrupt economies around the world already facing a supply crisis as they emerge from the coronavirus pandemic.
> 
> *European stocks dived to nine-month lows, but US stocks ended higher after Biden’s sanctions announcement. Brent oil earlier surged past US$100/barrel for the first time since 2014.
> A democratic nation of 44 million people, Ukraine is Europe’s biggest country by area after Russia itself.*
> 
> It voted for independence at the fall of the Soviet Union and has recently stepped up efforts to join Nato and the European Union, aspirations that infuriate Moscow.
> 
> Putin, who denied for months that he was planning an invasion, has called Ukraine an artificial construct carved from Russia by its enemies – a characterisation Ukrainians see as an attempt to erase their more than 1,000-year-old history.
> 
> While many Ukrainians, particularly in the east, speak Russian as a native language, virtually all identify themselves as Ukrainian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also some dissent in Russia. Police detained more than 1,600 taking part in anti-war rallies in 53 cities and authorities threatened to block media reports carrying "false information".
> 
> In the south-eastern port of Mariupol, near a frontline held by Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine, local authorities said 26 people were wounded in shelling. Civilians packed bags.
> 
> "We are going into hiding," a woman said.
> Ukraine’s ambassador to the United States, Oksana Markarova, said its forces had downed two Russian helicopters and seven other Russian aircraft and destroyed several Russian trucks, and a platoon from Russia’s 74th Motor Rifles Brigade had surrendered.
> 
> Russia’s defence ministry said it had destroyed 83 land-based Ukrainian targets and had achieved all its goals, according to Interfax news agency.
> 
> Protests against Russia’s invasion were held in Europe and the United States.
> 
> At a demonstration in New York’s Time Square, Ivana Lotoshynski, who was born in Ukraine, urged solidarity with Ukrainians.
> 
> "People are losing their lives right now. Ukrainians are fighting against this regime from Russia and it’s really devastating," she said. "Today I think everybody is Ukrainian."



There is an on going single aggregate thread here for all things related to the Russian- Ukraine war...
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/ 
You should post there ..
No need for this tread...








Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Tensions are rising in the east of Europe. It seems that both the Russian forces and Ukrainian forces are mobilized. After the end of the ceasefire, many clashes were recorded in the Donbas region, where separatist Russian militias were located. Due to growing concerns, NATO forces directed many...



defence.pk

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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497052726156431373


----------



## beijingwalker

Biden reaffirms that US troops won't be fighting Russians in Ukraine

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## dBSPL

Enigma SIG said:


> Exactly like how the West killed massacred, maimed and killed with wanton abandon across the Middle east and Pakistan.


I think what he was talking about here was the emotional bond between the Ukrainian and Russian people. Russia was shown sensitivity on this issue even in the 2014 invasion. But after yesterday, irreparable wounds were opened. In addition, the US invasions are not a good justification tool. Russia has defended the lawlessness of these occupations for years.


----------



## arjunk

Clutch said:


> 60 years old as well?


For desk jobs. Anyone above 40 is a liability on the battlefield.


----------



## Daniel808

Ukrainian Su-27 shot down over Kiev


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497076940372594700


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## Enigma SIG

beijingwalker said:


> Biden reaffirms that US troops won't be fighting Russians in Ukraine


This senile pa*** will probably forget who Russia is invading by tomorrow.

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## NA71

beijingwalker said:


> Biden reaffirms that US troops won't be fighting Russians in Ukraine


They can not fight any war if the opponent is trained and professionals...Trump went to Korea and stooped to NK leader and now after pushing Ukraine to disaster...Biden just showing the US trade Mark


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## dBSPL

Ukrainian authorities are reporting a new airbourne assult by Russian forces in Zhtomyr region, about 200km away from Kyiv. Potentially a second attempt to establish an aerial bridge-head following the reported repelling of a similar attempt at Hostomel yesterday. 

In addition, sirens began to sound in cities in the west of the country. Another big wave is coming.

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## Daniel808

Daniel808 said:


> Ukrainian Su-27 shot down over Kiev
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497076940372594700



Shot down by Russian SAM


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497080258989752320
Ukraine is in full Retreat now, they blown up their own bridges


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497080781759520768

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## kingQamaR

Enigma SIG said:


> Exactly like how the West massacred, maimed and killed with wanton abandon across the Middle east and Pakistan.



USA, stupidly invaded a Arab Iraqi country no connection for either of them. 

while putin is wildly attacking Ukraine, the original birth place for his peoples Russians his language & Christianity came to them given by the Ukrainians

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## gambit

Enigma SIG said:


> I see the copium is in short supply.
> Right from we'll grind the Russians in urban warfare to Russians will prevail lol. *The US can only attack weak nations,* it pisses it's pants when Russia comes into play.


You mean Russia is attacking a military peer in Ukraine?

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## gambit

MH.Yang said:


> Those who think Russia's economy will collapse may forget that China is the world's largest economy and market, not USA. Everything Russia exports, such as oil, natural gas, coal, iron ore, wheat and so on, is what China needs. *China can even buy it all.*


In other words, China is returning to her old status as subordinate partner to Russia. Just like the old days of the Cold War yrs.

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## TheNoob

Gripen9 said:


> Looks like arty strike called in with drone support.
> Lambs to the slaughter.



The user interface does not seem to be russian. 
Looks like the apache's. 

Video is unrelated to this conflict.

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## kingQamaR

You've got to feel sorry for these Russian conscripts, who look very young and quite frankly pathetic. I've got a feeling this aggressive land grab in Ukraine will not end well for Putin.

The Russians are notoriously brutal even when it comes to their own people.


----------



## Enigma SIG

kingQamaR said:


> USA, stupidly invaded a Arab Iraqi country no connection for either of them.
> 
> while putin is wildly attacking Ukraine, the original birth place for his peoples Russians his language & Christianity came to them given by the Ukrainians


They didn't *stupidly invade.*
Lets do a comparison shall we. How about the US tries to pry away Baluchistan from Pakistan by offering them carrots in return (it's happening now). Should Pakistan just stand by while foreign influence takes hold in our heartland? 

Will you be supporting the US then? Russia rightly feels threatened by NATO's expansion into their sphere of influence, remember it was the CIA that staged the Maidan riots to install their puppet who was breathing down Putin's neck.

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## Gripen9

TheNoob said:


> The user interface does not seem to be russian.
> Looks like the apache's.
> 
> Video is unrelated to this conflict.


Yeah , deleted my comment. Seems to be old footage.


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## Daniel808

gambit said:


> In other words, China is returning to her old status as subordinate partner to Russia. Just like the old days of the Cold War yrs.



Your mind is so narrow.


China of course Supporting their Ally, Russia. Backing up their ally economy.
That’s why Russia dare to invade Ukraine despite your sanction barking.


But at the same time, China didn’t want to upset their Good customers in Europe.
So Chinese playing an Art of War in here 

Russia getting Closer to them, while at the same time money from Europe keep flowing to them


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## dBSPL

Biden: "Our troops are going to Europe to reassure our allies in the east."

While Russia invaded Ukraine; The United States began its invasion of the Baltic. One is using its own military power, the other is using the aggression of the other party.


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## Enigma SIG

dBSPL said:


> Biden: "Our troops are going to Europe to reassure our allies in the east."
> 
> While Russia invaded Ukraine; The United States began its invasion of the Baltic. One is using its own military power, the other is using the aggression of the other party.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496882718470070272Germany want to stay neutral, as much as possible...Because I think, they saw the grand strategy of England and the USA.

///

Russian businesses lost $39 billion on the first day of the military operation in Ukraine - Bloomberg

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## Gripen9

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496882718470070272Germany want to stay neutral, as much as possible...Because I think, they saw the grand strategy of England and the USA.
> 
> ///
> 
> Russian businesses lost $39 billion on the first day of the military operation in Ukraine - Bloomberg


They get 40% of their gas from Russia (via Ukraine).


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## dBSPL

“Today, will be the hardest day.”

"Russia's plan is to enter Kiev with tanks."

-Ukrainian Official


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## LeGenD

Ukraine does not have much of an army to begin with. Russian forces are wiping the floor with them. This is why it it important for a country to take its national security very seriously when it is surrounded by powerful neighbors. Ukraine is capable of producing heavy machinery but took its national security for granted. It is paying the price of this miscalculation since 2014.

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## kingQamaR

Enigma SIG said:


> They didn't *stupidly invade.*
> Lets do a comparison shall we. How about the US tries to pry away Baluchistan from Pakistan by offering them carrots in return (it's happening now). Should Pakistan just stand by while foreign influence takes hold in our heartland?
> 
> Will you be supporting the US then? Russia rightly feels threatened by NATO's expansion into their sphere of influence, remember it was the CIA that staged the Maidan riots to install their puppet who was breathing down Putin's neck.



I’m not supporting either side So I got no benefit in there European war 

I’m just commenting this Ukraine mess feels like Iraq war all over again, with so many false reasons for its invasion by Moscow like Washington did to Iraq 

Putin, is acting like a loss party alleging all sorts of crimes done by Ukraine to a Nuclear armed Russia. 

no one should be believing either of these two lying Moscow or usa

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## dBSPL

A march in support of Ukraine was held in Tbilisi, the capital of Georgia. A significant part of Georgian lands were also occupied with the support of Russia, in 2008.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497091259491663893
///

Zelensky speaks to Russians again. "Tonight you began bombing residential areas in the hero city of Kyiv. This is like 1941. I want to tell all Russian citizens who are coming out to protest: we hear you, you heard us, you started to believe us. Fight for us. Fight the war."

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## Enigma SIG

kingQamaR said:


> I’m not supporting either side So I got no benefit in there European war
> 
> I’m just commenting this Ukraine mess feels like Iraq war all over again, with so many false reasons for its invasion by Moscow like Washington did to Iraq
> 
> *Putin, is acting like a loss party alleging all sorts of crimes done by Ukraine to a Nuclear armed Russia. *
> 
> no one should be believing either of these two lying Moscow or usa


It's just Russia cleaning out its backyard. NATO felt like Russia was a walkover. It isn't.
Also war is messy business, no one here is explicitly stating Russia is doing the right thing. Also capitulating to western propaganda sources would be foolish as well. We know they don't have the interests of the larger world at heart. They're just power hungry ego maniacs led by a senile Pae** who doesn't know what he's saying 10 seconds into a conversation.

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## MH.Yang

Daniel808 said:


> Ukraine is not Iraq nor Afghan Taliban.
> 
> At that time, more than half of Iraq population hate their own government (Saddam Hussein), because majority of Iraq especially in Southern and Central area is Shia islam. While Saddam Hussein & their officers is from Sunni.
> 
> And also Ukraine have access to Top Tier Soviet & Russian Equipment (before 2014) in their Armed Forces, while Iraq Saddam needs to depends on monkey model (Downgrade) version of Soviet equipment.
> 
> They are both in different level



I suggest that Chinese members should not use Chinese thinking to replace Ukrainians, they are different from us. 

All puppet regimes supported by USA cannot escape the fate of the Afghan govt and the South Vietnamese govt. Because the puppet regime must share interests with American officials, the smell of corruption runs through their regime from top to bottom, they are born from corruption and will inevitably perish in corruption. 

Ukrainian officers sell organs and bodies of soldiers killed in the war, and Ukrainian officials organize gangs to sell Ukrainian women to the Netherlands for prostitution. Who would believe that they are willing to die for their country? As for the civilians in western Ukraine, how many of them are willing to die for the interests of these politicians?

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## S.Y.A

gambit said:


> You mean Russia is attacking a military peer in Ukraine?


nope, it isnt. neither does usa. both are evil, imperialist and hegemonic.



LeGenD said:


> Ukraine does not have much of an army to begin with. Russian forces are wiping the floor with them. This is why it it important for a country to take its national security very seriously when it is surrounded by powerful neighbors. Ukraine is capable of producing heavy machinery but took its national security for granted. It is paying the price of this miscalculation since 2014.


looks like they didnt learn any lessons from 2014, and kept on sleeping and living in a fool's paradise.

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## Oldman1

With the Ukrainians blowing up the bridges, its going to take a little bit longer to get to Kiev.


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## 8888888888888

LeGenD said:


> Ukraine does not have much of an army to begin with. Russian forces are wiping the floor with them. This is why it it important for a country to take its national security very seriously when it is surrounded by powerful neighbors. Ukraine is capable of producing heavy machinery but took its national security for granted. It is paying the price of this miscalculation since 2014.


Because they assume Nato will show up and help them, just looking at the Island video about the Ukraine Border Guards telling the Russian warship to go **** themselves despite being told to surrender or get blown up means they have been telling their troops Nato will show up if Russia invades.

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## GumNaam

MH.Yang said:


> I suggest that Chinese members should not use Chinese thinking to replace Ukrainians, they are different from us.
> 
> All puppet regimes supported by USA cannot escape the fate of the Afghan govt and the South Vietnamese govt. Because the puppet regime must share interests with American officials, the smell of corruption runs through their regime from top to bottom, they are born from corruption and will inevitably perish in corruption.
> 
> Ukrainian officers sell organs and bodies of soldiers killed in the war, and Ukrainian officials organize gangs to sell Ukrainian women to the Netherlands for prostitution. Who would believe that they are willing to die for their country? As for the civilians in western Ukraine, how many of them are willing to die for the interests of these politicians?


I foresee Russian Forces rolling into kiev by tomorrow morning and firmly in control of kiev by tomorrow afternoon. the performance of the ukrainian military has been comedic at best. which makes sense cuz there's being led by a comedian turned cia stooge turned politician.

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## MH.Yang

Meengla said:


> Great point. Surprised no one gave any Thanks or something to your message.
> Indeed, it sees strange to recognize the two republics in Donbass-- a clear violation of international order--only to be followed by something like a full invasion which would make the two republics' recognition redundant. What was Putin thinking?? Has something got under his skin too much?


About to the process of the annexation of Texas by USA: 
First recognize Texas's independence from Mexico, then beat Mexico, and finally let Texas vote to join USA. 

So Putin wants to subvert the Ukrainian regime and seize eastern territory from the new regime.

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## gambit

S.Y.A said:


> nope, it isnt. neither does usa. both are evil, imperialist and hegemonic.


But people like US more...

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## 8888888888888

GumNaam said:


> I foresee Russian Forces rolling into kiev by tomorrow morning and firmly in control of kiev by tomorrow afternoon. the performance of the ukrainian military has been comedic at best. which makes sense cuz there's being led by a comedian turned cia stooge turned politician.


Even if there are resistance Russia will just bomb them.


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## dBSPL

I like this thread, very accurate:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497088386645250049

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497088863323713539

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497090906952204290

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497091839371128833

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## S.Y.A

Foinikas said:


> How's this?
> 
> View attachment 818292
> 
> 
> View attachment 818293
> 
> 
> View attachment 818294
> View attachment 818296
> 
> 
> View attachment 818289
> 
> 
> Croatian volunteers with Ustashe flag
> 
> View attachment 818290
> 
> 
> View attachment 818295
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 818308
> View attachment 818310


so? still patches and drawings.



gambit said:


> But people like US more...


because its perception is that of a benevolent master, with freedom and whatnot because of a carefully curated media image. and at the same time it kills and murders and imprisons and tortures people in overseas bases.

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## gambit

S.Y.A said:


> because its perception is that of a benevolent master, with freedom and whatnot because of a carefully curated media image. and at the same time it kills and murders and imprisons and tortures people in overseas bases.


You are free to 'curate' your own perspective of US. Good luck with that...


----------



## Han Patriot

gambit said:


> But people like US more...


Between cow shit and dog shit.... Well I think US is cow shit, its vegan shit.

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## TheNoob

8888888888888 said:


> Because they assume Nato will show up and help them, just looking at the Island video about the Ukraine Border Guards telling the Russian warship to go **** themselves despite being told to surrender or get blown up means they have been telling their troops Nato will show up if Russia invades.


Video please



Han Patriot said:


> Between cow shit and dog shit.... Well I think US is cow shit, its vegan shit.



You mean GMO Vegan shit. Atleast get it right, smh.


----------



## Enigma SIG

S.Y.A said:


> so? still patches and drawings.
> 
> 
> because its perception is that of a benevolent master, with freedom and whatnot because of a carefully curated media image. and at the same time it kills and murders and imprisons and tortures people in overseas bases.


Try putting on Nazi memorabilia on your clothes and walk in Germany / USA lol.


----------



## LeGenD

8888888888888 said:


> Because they assume Nato will show up and help them, just looking at the Island video about the Ukraine Border Guards telling the Russian warship to go **** themselves despite being told to surrender or get blown up means they have been telling their troops Nato will show up if Russia invades.


It is sad to see a beautiful country being overrun in a war. I shudder to think what will happen to families and women in Ukraine after this. The world should pressure Russia to not commit war crimes in Ukraine at minimum.

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## TheNoob

LeGenD said:


> It is sad to see a beautiful country being overrun in a war. I shudder to think what will happen to families and women in Ukraine after this. The world should pressure Russia to not commit war crimes in Ukraine at minimum.



This is extremely sensitive from the conflict prespective.
I highly doubt they'd want to shoot themselves in the foot like that.

Plus the whole Russian brotherhood deal that goes within them also takes play in avoiding that I suppose.


----------



## Daniel808

Pincer movement to Kiev by Russian Troops.

They are only 45Km and 8 Km from Kiev

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497095910475640832
Russian Troops will be over Kiev in no time

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## thetutle

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Oh but they were not good enough for F35 Oh we remember that play
> Remember when , NATO use to prop up Turkey and say , go go do something we got your back , and offered F-35 , when Turkey invested money and time , and it was time for them to get F35 , oh we all know what happened
> 
> Erdogan was called "Illogical" for humanitarian work in Syria oh , I remember that like yesterday
> 
> And the currency devaluation and people made fun of Turkey look like economy is going bonkers cuz you went in Syria
> 
> Now Turkey is very important friend again, my oh my , how important is Turkey now



Yes NATO is unfair to Turkey, but a lot fairer than Russia will ever be if it had its way. Turkey cant and wont leave NATO until it has its own nukes.

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## Rana4pak

gambit said:


> But people like US more...











*liar…..*

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## 8888888888888

TheNoob said:


> Video please
> 
> 
> 
> You mean GMO Vegan shit. Atleast get it right, smh.


----------



## IblinI

thetutle said:


> Turkey cant and wont leave NATO until it has its own *nukes.*


huh???


----------



## zartosht

zelensky is already talking surrender terms 

"Ukraine has been left to fend for itself" "we have offered Russians neutrality" 



https://www.rt.com/russia/550546-zelensky-nato-ukraine-neutrality/



This clown really thought he could directly troll and threaten Russian security with his NATO and nuke comments. He grossly underestimated the seriousness of the situation. and he greatly overestimated what the west would do for his regime...

He will face a sakashvilli like humiliation, and ukraine will turn into another georgia, while losing far more territory then georgia.

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## Rana4pak

Russia make Ukraine a land lock country like afghanistan..

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## Enigma SIG

8888888888888 said:


>


Should've lived to fight another day.


----------



## Daniel808

Daniel808 said:


> Pincer movement to Kiev by Russian Troops.
> 
> They are only 45Km and 8 Km from Kiev
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497095910475640832
> Russian Troops will be over Kiev in no time



The other group, already entering Kiev suburb. Only 5 miles away from city center.
Confirmed by Ukraine MOD


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497098026623504384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497096165510332437


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## Joe Shearer

Vapnope said:


> @Joe Shearer @T90TankGuy @MilSpec gentlemen, i would like to read your take on this issue. Thanks in advance.



This is today, here and now, naked aggression.
It is also the Russian reaction to continued and sustained NATO pressure on Russia, by extending NATO boundaries eastward directly threatening Russia.
Russia will seemingly create a buffer zone to the east, consisting of its Russian-language majority in the Donbas region, and additional strips of land to the west of this zone, to create a buffer to the west against land attack.
Ukraine will be kept demilitarised by force, under threat of renewed attack.


Putin has made it clear that he will react to these pressures violently.
He has not made it clear how he hopes to keep Russia in working order under the massive weight of sanctions imminent.
China may or may not provide the economic counter-balance against sanctions.
It is possible that this presages the final downfall of the Soviet Union, as its most important successor component, Russia, heads for decline. Perhaps sharp decline.


India is very awkwardly placed. 
Supporting Russia sets her against her supposed new allies of the west.
Breaking ties with Russia 
guarantees vast streams of surplus arms and ammunition into Pakistan, and 
the abrupt end to supplies of spares for the enormous Indian inventory of Russian weapons.

She will also be left friendless against China.


We are likely to see/hear/read verbiage in plenty, basically trying to say nothing against Russia and yet not annoying the USA.
We are likely to see this response angering the US and Europe.
This is also likely to chill relations with Korea and Japan.
China and Pakistan are likely to look on with cynical amusement, as the Sanghis take India down with them.

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## SQ8

RescueRanger said:


> USAF AWACS in the skies above the black sea:
> View attachment 818322


Providing support to Ukrainian Forces - a lot more is in town too so it isn’t the “US has abandoned Ukraine” nonsense one sees publicly

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## khansaheeb

R Wing said:


> You think you're being nuanced, but I don't think you are. I think we can both agree that Russia will lose hardware and men. We can also agree that Russia included prospective losses in its wargaming and, more importantly, long-term grand strategy before engaging in this conflict and found the payoffs/costs justifiable given their regional security goals.
> 
> Crucially, there must be a quantitative threshold after which such losses become significant enough for your theory to kick in. Time will tell whether Russia's losses cross that threshold or not. Perhaps we can devote our time (on this thread, which is more about updates) to more constructive, current discussions. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. Most people have never studied realism or grand strategy formally, so they have no clue what they are talking about.


With 200K soldiers Russians won't be able to control Kyiv let alone whole of Ukraine. Russian strategy is weird unless this is just the start of a long term plan.

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## Oldman1

khansaheeb said:


> With 200K soldiers Russians won't be able to control Kyiv let alone whole of Ukraine. Russian strategy is weird unless this is just the start of a long term plan.


The strategy is to make it LOOK like they can take over Kiev and the rest of the country. Putin wants a lightning war, not a prolong one.

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## zartosht

khansaheeb said:


> With 200K soldiers Russians won't be able to control Kyiv let alone whole of Ukraine. Russian strategy is weird unless this is just the start of a long term plan.



the line between Ukraine and Russia is very murky... especially in eastern ukraine. 

the entire eastern half of ukraine could easily have been given to Russia in soviet times. 

its not like some hard border between 2 different peoples with 2 different cultures and languages (Ex. China x India)

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## FairAndUnbiased

zartosht said:


> the line between Ukraine and Russia is very murky... especially in eastern ukraine.
> 
> the entire eastern half of ukraine could easily have been given to Russia in soviet times.
> 
> its not like some hard border between 2 different peoples with 2 different cultures and languages (Ex. China x India)



Actually along the Indian border are Sino-Tibetan-Burmese language speaking tribes with light skin and straight black hair who are suffering from repression.

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## khansaheeb

SQ8 said:


> Providing support to Ukrainian Forces - a lot more is in town too so it isn’t the “US has abandoned Ukraine” nonsense one sees publicly


With US and European interference Ukraine will end up like Syria, a battle ground for testing the latest weapons and strategies and outflux of millions of refugees. Poor Ukraine became a sacrificed Pawn , sacrificed by the west for their own interests and to take war to the Russian front. Ukrainians were Russian one day, renegades the next day and today enemies of Russia. Thanks to greedy politicians the civilians will suffer immensely. The UN needs to come down heavily on the war mongers, the bringers of chaos and negotiate peace before huge calamity befalls the Ukrainian civilians. It is freezing cold there and if the war escalates Ukrainian food , water and heating could rapidly start dwindling causing untold suffering.

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## S10

gambit said:


> In other words, China is returning to her old status as subordinate partner to Russia. Just like the old days of the Cold War yrs.


It's called international trade, something you know very little about these days.

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## Trango Towers

Irfan Baloch said:


> what jet is that almost at the end?


Su25


----------



## monitor

Just heard from al jazeera, unconfirmed report of Ukrainian missile attack on Russian airfields. 💪👍

Ukraine allegedly struck Russia’s Millerovo air field in Rostov with Tochka-U tactical ballistic

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497102530370846741

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## SQ8

khansaheeb said:


> With US and European interference Ukraine will end up like Syria, a battle ground for testing the latest weapons and strategies and outflux of millions of refugees. Poor Ukraine became a sacrificed Pawn , sacrificed by the west for their own interests and to take war to the Russian front. Ukrainians were Russian one day, renegades the next day and today enemies of Russia. Thanks to greedy politicians the civilians will suffer immensely. The UN needs to come down heavily on the war mongers, the bringers of chaos and negotiate peace before huge calamity befalls the Ukrainian civilians. It is freezing cold there and if the war escalates Ukrainian food , water and heating could rapidly start dwindling causing untold suffering.


Unfortunately, the Ukrainians stumbled onto this when they started having NATO connections and exercises. They should have seen this coming but were thinking NATO exercises meant NATO presence when even NATO knows Russian red lines. However, as @Joe Shearer pointed out it may well be a 20 year policy to end the last remnants of the Soviet Union by baiting Russia into such moves.

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## casual

khansaheeb said:


> With 200K soldiers Russians won't be able to control Kyiv let alone whole of Ukraine. Russian strategy is weird unless this is just the start of a long term plan.


Russian strategy isn't occupation. Their plan is to cause damage and force negations with Ukraine to agree to never join NATO. 200k soldiers is more then enough.

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## gambit

S10 said:


> It's called international trade, something you know very little about these days.


Sure. When I was active duty back in the Cold War yrs, it was genuinely called 'trade' between the Warsaw Pact countries as well.

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## Khanate

dBSPL said:


> I like this thread, very accurate:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497088386645250049
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497088863323713539
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497090906952204290
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497091839371128833




If thousands of enemy soldiers are crawling on your territory then nothing is safe.


----------



## Joe Shearer

SQ8 said:


> Unfortunately, the Ukrainians stumbled onto this when they started having NATO connections and exercises. They should have seen this coming but were thinking NATO exercises meant NATO presence when even NATO knows Russian red lines. However, as @Joe Shearer pointed out it may well be a 20 year policy to end the last remnants of the Soviet Union by baiting Russia into such moves.


It is difficult to see Russia coming out of her forthcoming decline. Whatever science and technology she had inherited from the old Soviet Union, their remarkable achievements in archaeology, their attention to medicine for the masses, their attention to metropolitan transport, all are headed for a slow decline. What a shame!

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## RescueRanger

Good afternoon, 

*Stealing myself away from work to type this. What we know so far:*

*Kyiv announces air raid alert*
*The mayor of Rivne has reported a missile strike on the city's airport.*
*A Reuters witness has reported sirens are going off over Lviv in western Ukraine.*
137 Ukrainians have been killed since 0300 UTC yesterday
120,000 people have been displaced (left Ukraine) - UNHCR
Russian forces are less than 20 miles away from Kiev 
Russia first targeted key military infrastructure sites such as airfields and radar bases before advancing on multiple fronts with ground and airborne troops
Russia resumed air strikes at 0400 local time
International Criminal Court says it will investigate any war crime in Ukraine






*Ukrainian troops are defending their positions on four fronts

Wreckage of a military aircraft in the capital:*








*Building on fire after a missile strike in Kiev 



*
US Air Force plane receives fuel over Poland​





*USAF Refuelers in the region*

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## jamahir

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Erdogan was called "Illogical" for humanitarian work in Syria oh , I remember that like yesterday



Eh what ?


----------



## beijingwalker

Russia-Ukraine War: 500 Indian Students Stuck In Hostel Basement In Ukraine's Kharkiv

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## S.Y.A

gambit said:


> You are free to 'curate' your own perspective of US. Good luck with that...


so you agree? good.


----------



## Enigma SIG

khansaheeb said:


> With US and European interference Ukraine will end up like Syria, a battle ground for testing the latest weapons and strategies and outflux of millions of refugees. Poor Ukraine became a sacrificed Pawn , sacrificed by the west for their own interests and to take war to the Russian front. Ukrainians were Russian one day, renegades the next day and today enemies of Russia. Thanks to greedy politicians the civilians will suffer immensely. The UN needs to come down heavily on the war mongers, the bringers of chaos and negotiate peace before huge calamity befalls the Ukrainian civilians. It is freezing cold there and if the war escalates Ukrainian food , water and heating could rapidly start dwindling causing untold suffering.

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## Oldman1

casual said:


> Russian strategy isn't occupation. Their plan is to cause damage and force negations with Ukraine to agree to never join NATO. 200k soldiers is more then enough.


Yeah sure...














From 'Not Us' To 'Why Hide It?': How Russia Denied Its Crimea Invasion, Then Admitted It


Russia initially denied that its soldiers seized government buildings and other strategic facilities in Crimea ahead of its March 2014 annexation of the Ukrainian peninsula five years ago this week -- despite obvious signs of its involvement. It took a year for Moscow to come clean.




www.rferl.org





From 'Not Us' To 'Why Hide It?': How Russia Denied Its Crimea Invasion, Then Admitted It​In the darkness of the morning on February 27, 2014, heavily armed men wearing green uniforms with no identifying insignia stormed the regional parliament in Simferopol, the capital of Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula, and raised the Russian flag atop the building.

The seizure came a day after pro- and anti-Russian protesters *had clashed* outside the building over the future of the peninsula following the ouster of Kremlin-friendly Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, who had fled Kyiv days earlier. And it was just the beginning.

As masked commandos in similar garb fanned out across the peninsula over the next two weeks, surrounding Ukrainian military bases and taking control of other strategic facilities, it was clear to many on the ground that they were Russian military. *One of the soldiers said as much on camera.*

But despite clear indications that Moscow had dispatched these forces -- or "little green men," as they came to be widely known -- Russia embarked on a campaign of denials and obfuscations about their provenance and role in helping cement Moscow's annexation of Crimea in March 2014.

*Russia described them* as "self-defense units" created by locals concerned about alleged threats against Crimea's Russian-speaking population from Ukrainian ultranationalists.
*Nothing To See Here*

A day after the seizure of the Crimean parliament and the regional government headquarters, masked Russian soldiers took control of the Simferopol airport. *One woman in the crowd appeared certain* about their nationality, yelling "Russia, Russia!" as a group of commandos loaded their weapons and equipment into a military truck.

But the same day, Russia's ambassador to the European Union told Euronews that the troops at the airport were not Russian. "There are no troops whatsoever, no Russian troops at least," *Vladimir Chizhov said.*

Days later, during his first public comments on the events in Crimea, Russian President Vladimir Putin was asked directly whether Russian troops were blockading Ukrainian soldiers inside their bases on the peninsula.

Despite the *clear evidence* of *Russian soldiers' role* in *these blockades* over the previous days, *Putin replied: "Those were local self-defense units."*

The Bloomberg reporter who asked the question noted that the armed men wore "uniforms strongly resembling Russian Army uniforms."

Putin responded: "Take a look at the post-Soviet states. There are many uniforms there that are similar. You can go to a store and buy any kind of uniform."









In high-stakes meeting, Russia tells U.S. it isn't planning to invade Ukraine


In nearly eight hours of talks with U.S. officials, Russia says it's not planning to attack Ukraine, despite having an estimated 100,000 troops near the border. More talks are expected.




www.npr.org





In high-stakes meeting, Russia tells U.S. it isn't planning to invade Ukraine​
Top U.S. and Russian diplomats said they had constructive talks Monday in Geneva, but they did not achieve a breakthrough in their attempt to defuse tensions regarding the Russian troop buildup on the Ukraine-Russia border.

Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov emerged from the nearly eight hours of talks and declared, "There are no plans or intentions to attack Ukraine." He went on to say, "There is no reason to fear some kind of escalatory scenario."

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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497107662944845846

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497106864315969536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497109190032068608

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## RescueRanger

DDOS Strikes have taken our several hundred Ukrainian government and affiliated websites, in addition a massive DDOS attack has targeted the OSINT search engine Intelx.io which is now showing bad gateway. 








beijingwalker said:


> Russia-Ukraine War: 500 Indian Students Stuck In Hostel Basement In Ukraine's Kharkiv


Both Pakistani and Indian students are taking refuge in the hallway of a underground train station in Kiev:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496879071334367235

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## SQ8

Joe Shearer said:


> It is difficult to see Russia coming out of her forthcoming decline. Whatever science and technology she had inherited from the old Soviet Union, their remarkable achievements in archaeology, their attention to medicine for the masses, their attention to metropolitan transport, all are headed for a slow decline. What a shame!


Failure to diversify has been their problem even though their software industry made huge strides they either relocated to the US or were gobbled up by competition. Its the same reason the Saudis are sinking 1/3rd if their reserves into getting away from oil.

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## gambit

You guys did not know that Russia promised *IN WRITING* that Russia will not attack Ukraine?

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## Daniel808

Enigma SIG said:


> View attachment 818446




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496448480877096962

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## RescueRanger

UK Defense minister Ben Wallace is preparing a package of lethal and non-lethal aid to the Ukrainians which will include the following:

Body Armor 
Helmets
NVGs
NLAWs
Source: AJN


----------



## S.Y.A

Daniel808 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497107662944845846
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497106864315969536
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497109190032068608


what a sh*tty situation to find one's self in.

When the elephants fight, the grass gets trampled

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## RescueRanger

gambit said:


> You guys did not know that Russia promised *IN WRITING* that Russia will not attack Ukraine?


Russia has proved herself to be a tinpot state led by a lunatic.

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## SQ8

gambit said:


> You guys did not know that Russia promised *IN WRITING* that Russia will not attack Ukraine?


Semantics have been used by multiple parties to get done what they want. But the Russians will face pretty crappy conditions unless they have limited objectives and stick to areas where they have civilian support,

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## Enigma SIG

Daniel808 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496448480877096962



Look at this imbecile right here:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496936862023569408

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## khansaheeb

Anyone got assessment of effectiveness of Russian weapons and Ukrainian weapons?


----------



## Oldman1

Daniel808 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497107662944845846
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497106864315969536
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497109190032068608



Thats pretty smart so they don't get blown up while trying to sneak into Kiev.


----------



## lastofthepatriots

RescueRanger said:


> DDOS Strikes have taken our several hundred Ukrainian government and affiliated websites, in addition a massive DDOS attack has targeted the OSINT search engine Intelx.io which is now showing bad gateway.
> 
> View attachment 818447
> 
> 
> 
> Both Pakistani and Indian students are taking refuge in the hallway of a underground train station in Kiev:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496879071334367235



Lmfao. I’m sorry but that lahori accent... You can hear it from a mile away.

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## arjunk

gambit said:


> In other words, China is returning to her old status as subordinate partner to Russia. Just like the old days of the Cold War yrs.


This war will strengthen China, if anything. If the Russian economy and military is weakened, China can influence it more easily. Same with the West.

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## Aesterix

Oldman1 said:


> That just only make the Ukrainians fight harder.


Sure but they been bombing Donbas region for 8 years. Killed so many. They ain't innocent.

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## Trango Towers

Oldman1 said:


> That he is.
> 
> Ukrainian strategy could work if they consolidate their forces into urban areas as well as targeting supplies of the Russian forces as well as use successful tactics like mines and IEDs. But the problem is their Ukrainian president who didn't take the possible invasion seriously and didn't order a mobilization in the first place until long after the invasion which means many fighting men are in civilian clothes and don't have weapons and are out of position while the invasion is going on. So it all comes down to him if he still wants to fight after all the blunders. The Ukrainian forces are fighting hard, but you don't want to see their own President giving up. It be like the American colonists seeing General Washington looking hopeless and wants to give up to the British.


Dont u think mines should have been in place. 
4000 plus anti tank weapons...where are they? Why were they not used.
No defence by Ukrainian forced as Russian entered? 

Ukraine was asleep

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## RescueRanger

khansaheeb said:


> Anyone got assessment of effectiveness of Russian weapons and Ukrainian weapons?



Here you go:​








Infographic: Military capabilities of Russia and Ukraine


As Russian forces advance into Ukraine, President Zelenskyy introduces martial law and tells troops to hold their ground




www.aljazeera.com

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## Joe Shearer

RescueRanger said:


> Russia has proved herself to be a tinpot state led by a lunatic.


Not a lunatic. Anything but a lunatic. Just a short-sighted intelligence services middle ranker, who has been promoted to the top through luck, and runs his state like a suspicious building filled with questionable characters, communicating with the enemy.

If you think that people in intelligence services have to be lunatics to survive in those, I have no answer.

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## Daniel808

Enigma SIG said:


> Look at this imbecile right here:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496936862023569408



You should see this 😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496547564862246918

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## Enigma SIG

Aesterix said:


> Sure but they been bombing Donbas region for 8 years. Killed so many. They ain't innocent.


In geopolitics, no one is innocent. Yellow journalists always portray their masters as heroes while vilifying others


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497104095345360921

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## khansaheeb

gambit said:


> You guys did not know that Russia promised *IN WRITING* that Russia will not attack Ukraine?


Yeh , but the Russians are insisting that the agreement was with the old pro-Russian gov and not the new anti-Russian gov in Ukraine. Also NATO promised not to expand towards RUSSIA and they did.


----------



## RescueRanger

Joe Shearer said:


> If you think that people in intelligence services have to be lunatics to survive in those, I have no answer.



Joe, I don't know what side of the bed you have woken from, but that is my observation and opinion. Please sit down, do some mindfulness exercise or drink some green tea and remember that we are all entitled to our opinions and you don't need to jump on the throats of people for expressing their opinion on a FORUM.

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## Enigma SIG

Aesterix said:


> Sure but they been bombing Donbas region for 8 years. Killed so many. They ain't innocent.

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## RescueRanger

Enigma SIG said:


> View attachment 818451


Very apt sadly.

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## Joe Shearer

Daniel808 said:


> You should see this 😂
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496547564862246918


This really scared me.

They have this wet towel, we have Modi, the Chinese have Dr. Eleven - what is going on with this world?

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## Daniel808

Aesterix said:


> Sure but they been bombing Donbas region for 8 years. Killed so many. They ain't innocent.



Yes, until this day


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497112584616833027

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## Joe Shearer

RescueRanger said:


> Joe, I don't know what side of the bed you have woken from, but that is my observation and opinion. Please sit down, do some mindfulness exercise or drink some green tea and remember that we are all entitled to our opinions and you don't need to jump on the throats of people for expressing their opinion on a FORUM.


OK, OK.
It wasn't against any individual comment, btw.

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## Oldman1

Trango Towers said:


> Dont u think mines should have been in place.
> 4000 plus anti tank weapons...where are they? Why were they not used.
> No defence by Ukrainian forced as Russian entered?
> 
> Ukraine was asleep


Mines should have been places, bridges blown up earlier, etc. Stingers and anti tank weapons are being used right now. The Russian forces are ignoring the towns and going fast for the objective which is Kiev.


----------



## RescueRanger

*PSTN, cellular and data networks in Ukraine's second largest city have been reportedly disrupted overnight:*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496832598764834824

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## Daniel808

Entering Kiev City. They moved so Fast

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497117606121201673

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497117816318676992

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## Foinikas

S.Y.A said:


> so? still patches and drawings.


Are you smoking something?


----------



## RescueRanger

Joe Shearer said:


> OK, OK.
> It wasn't against any individual comment, btw. It was about Putin.


And that is fine, but many of us are professionals here having done our time and worn the uniform, so we all respect each other's opportunity to chime in with our 2 pennies, we don't have to agree with it but we don't pooh pooh like some nascent member of a debate club for the sake of invoking a moot. #

Lets move on.

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## Oldman1

Aesterix said:


> Sure but they been bombing Donbas region for 8 years. Killed so many. They ain't innocent.


Yeah but imagine bombing Kiev. It be like bombing Islamabad or London.

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## Enigma SIG

Daniel808 said:


> You should see this 😂
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496547564862246918



Told you he's an imbecile. Any sane government would have called the President as incapable of leading the country.

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## xuxu1457

In 1991, Ukraine had 2700 nuclear warheads, more than China, France and Britain combined.

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## RescueRanger

Artillery shelling heard in Kiev:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497117606121201673


----------



## Aesterix

Oldman1 said:


> Yeah but imagine bombing Kiev. It be like bombing Islamabad or London.


Not our war.


----------



## Hydration

Enigma SIG said:


> View attachment 818451


this sad world

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## Oldman1

Aesterix said:


> Not our war.


Didn't say it was. Just imagine for the Ukrainians in the city.

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## Enigma SIG

Civilian car narrowly misses being bombed. Freaky.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497119750564032513

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## Pak Nationalist

Any news on how TB2s fared or how S-400 performed? By the looks of it, this "war" is going to end within 48 hours. Ukrainians had no clue. It is understandable though considering their regular military's showing in the civil war.

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## jamahir

Joe Shearer said:


> It is difficult to see Russia coming out of her forthcoming decline. Whatever science and technology she had inherited from the old Soviet Union, their remarkable achievements in archaeology, their attention to medicine for the masses, their attention to metropolitan transport, all are headed for a slow decline. What a shame!



I think technologically Russia has operated all these years somewhat in disconnection from West-led efforts whether in space exploration or in computing ( described below ) and maybe other things. It may happen that the International Space Station may see withdrawal by North America, Europe and Japan or it may see withdrawal by Russia. As it is, Russia has plan for its own independent space station which doesn't seem to be realized maybe because of less financial resource input but this war may see resurgence towards that effort. Also, there are American companies developing private space stations. For Russia at the moment there is also the Chinese space station.



SQ8 said:


> Failure to diversify has been their problem even though their software industry made huge strides they either relocated to the US or were gobbled up by competition. Its the same reason the Saudis are sinking 1/3rd if their reserves into getting away from oil.



Actually, Russia is good at software and hardware. Maybe 12 to 13 years ago I listened to one program on BBC World Service radio ( when I used to listen to BBC ) about a Russian government institute in Siberia that taught cyberattacks. And then there is the Russian microprocessor called Elbrus designed by MCST which though based on SPARC instruction set has its own unique internal design, but unfortunately its current models are manufactured in Taiwan but surely for bureaucratic and military needs there will be secure versions of Elbrus-based computers produced within Russia and some parts may be from China. The OS for Elbrus-based computers is a ported Linux.



RescueRanger said:


> Russia has proved herself to be a tinpot state led by a lunatic.



Why ?

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## Hydration

Oldman1 said:


> Didn't say it was. Just imagine for the Ukrainians in the city.


why didnt u imagine baghdad tripoli or damascus or jerusaLEM OR GAZA before?

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## arjunk

Ukraine and Libya are great examples of what happens when you give up your nukes. The international community is impressed by military strength and economic power, not by how cucked you are or how many LGBTQIA2Sdx people you have.

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## Daniel808

xuxu1457 said:


> In 1991, Ukraine had 2700 nuclear warheads, more than China, France and Britain combined.




Not so long ago, before 2014 Ukraine is one of Economic Powerhouse in Eastern Europe. Look at them now 
Before Color Revolution virus spread to their country, Libya is one of Regional Powerhouse in Northern Africa Region. Now they are Failed state


Gladly, Belarus and Kazakhstan are Saved

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## Joe Shearer

RescueRanger said:


> And that is fine, but many of us are professionals here having done our time and worn the uniform, so we all respect each other's opportunity to chime in with our 2 pennies, we don't have to agree with it but we don't pooh pooh like some nascent member of a debate club for the sake of invoking a moot. #
> 
> Lets move on.


Peace. No offence meant.

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## RescueRanger

jamahir said:


> Why ?



Give it 48 hours and you will see why I claim this.

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## Oldman1

Hydration said:


> why didnt u imagine baghdad tripoli or damascus before?


Too many to name. Could have said Beijing or Grozny or something.


----------



## khansaheeb




----------



## Oldman1

khansaheeb said:


>


Do Russians fly in formation like that during wartime?

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## jamahir

Oldman1 said:


> Too many to name. Could have said Beijing or Grozny or something.



Just because you are American it need not mean you have to support your imperialist, Capitalist, plutocratic, two-party dictatorship political system which maintains the biggest and invasions-oriented military in the world whose budget just for 2020-21 was 700+ billion dollars.

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## Daniel808

Pak Nationalist said:


> Any news on how TB2s fared or how S-400 performed? By the looks of it, this "war" is going to end within 48 hours. Ukrainians had no clue. It is understandable though considering their regular military's showing in the civil war.



Getting obliterated in the Air by Russian Defence System or in the ground by Kalibr Cruise Missile


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496731284307128321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496716309190610944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496694620104925185

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## khansaheeb

Oldman1 said:


> Do Russians fly in formation like that during wartime?


Only when USAF is not about!

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## Vapnope

khansaheeb said:


> Anyone got assessment of effectiveness of Russian weapons and Ukrainian weapons?








This might help you

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## Daniel808

*One of Military Base in Kherson City taken over by Russian without any Resistance*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496856470822002689

*Kherson Location, Southern Ukraine*

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## Pak Nationalist

Daniel808 said:


> Getting obliterated in the Air by Russian Defence System or in the ground by Kalibr Cruise Missile
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496731284307128321
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496716309190610944
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496694620104925185


Doesn't say Tb2s were downed by ADS. Maybe Ukrainians mightnt have gotten time to integrate the TB2s in their operational doctrines yet.


----------



## Oldman1

jamahir said:


> Just because you are American it need not mean you have to support your imperialist, Capitalist, plutocratic, two-party dictatorship political system which maintains the biggest and invasions-oriented military in the world whose budget just for 2020-21 was 700+ billion dollars.




Don't need to be an imperialist, capitalist, plutocratic, two party dictatorship political system to launch invasions. Look at past conflicts where wars have started not by U.S. I mean are you surprised we didn't start WW1 or WW2?


----------



## RescueRanger

Lots of movement visible in the region mainly consisting of US, UK, Germany and Poland air assets:

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## That Guy

jamal18 said:


> You're missing the point. This isn't about protecting ethnic Russians, although it is a factor. It's about stopping a NATO owned Ukraine deploying nuclear weapons on Russia's border. This was never achieved diplomatically due to Nato, so the Russians are achieving this by force.


Uh, when did I say it was about protecting ethnic Russians.

Please go back and read the entire thread and my comments, before saying that I'm missing the point.


----------



## RescueRanger

Enigma SIG said:


> Civilian car narrowly misses being bombed. Freaky.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497119750564032513


Now that is what you call "maa ke dua"

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## Han Patriot

MH.Yang said:


> I'm familiar with that.
> In Chinese nightclubs (Changsha, Hunan), the price of Ukrainian girls is 1200CNY. These poor Ukrainian girls were forced to leave their hometown to the Far East by the corrupt Ukrainian govt, so I often help their career.
> 
> 
> View attachment 818434


Thats cheaper than a 2000 rmb Shanghai babe.


----------



## beijingwalker

NATO rules out intervention in Ukraine, Kyiv may fall in 24 hours​

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## monitor

AEROSINT Division PSF

@PSFAERO
·
35m

#BREAKING Senior Ukrainian defence official says Russian troops will enter the outskirts of the capital, Kyiv, today. The unnamed official also told 
@Reuters
that Ukrainian forces were fighting outnumbered on four fronts.

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## Hydration

monitor said:


> AEROSINT Division PSF
> @PSFAERO
> ·
> 35m
> 
> #BREAKING Senior Ukrainian defence official says Russian troops will enter the outskirts of the capital, Kyiv, today. The unnamed official also told
> @Reuters
> that Ukrainian forces were fighting outnumbered on four fronts.


Outnumbered and outgunned

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## 8888888888888

Daniel808 said:


> *One of Military Base in Kherson City taken over by Russian without any Resistance*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496856470822002689
> 
> *Kherson Location, Southern Ukraine*
> View attachment 818455


Look like they went west


----------



## gambit

khansaheeb said:


> Yeh , but the Russians are insisting that the agreement was with the old pro-Russian gov and not the new anti-Russian gov in Ukraine. Also NATO promised not to expand towards RUSSIA and they did.


Nyet, tovarisch.

I have not gone thru all 150+ pages of this thread, but am willing to surmise that most simply echoed on the weakness of the US/NATO...etc...etc...etc...I do not expect much from this forum, any way.

There is a *WRITTEN* promise by Russia to respect the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine, not to militarily attack Ukraine, and not to use economic coercion against Ukraine. That *WRITTEN* promise was witnessed by countries, not individuals. And in return, Ukraine must do <something> which Ukraine did that <something>. NATO was not mentioned.

I can practically feel it thru the Force a great cry of anguish from the many in this thread: "What if I was wrong about Russia?" 

Am going to dinner with my family now, chili cheese dogs, chocolate covered macadamia nuts, beers, and bourbon. Let us see if someone managed to find that doc.

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## dBSPL



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## lastofthepatriots

https://imgur.com/a/0IrlV1Q

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## Hydration

dBSPL said:


> back to the old days


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497125058195644422
Soviet tanks lol


----------



## lastofthepatriots

Daniel808 said:


> *One of Military Base in Kherson City taken over by Russian without any Resistance*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496856470822002689
> 
> *Kherson Location, Southern Ukraine*
> View attachment 818455



I have video of dead russian soldiers in Kherson, but I can’t post due to graphic nature.

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## Enigma SIG

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497125058195644422
> Soviet tanks lol


That tank sure is in a hurry. What is this capture the flag?


----------



## Oldman1

Daniel808 said:


> *One of Military Base in Kherson City taken over by Russian without any Resistance*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496856470822002689
> 
> *Kherson Location, Southern Ukraine*
> View attachment 818455


Actually I'm seeing on videos dead Russian bodies in Kherson, so there is some resistance.


----------



## dBSPL

Enigma SIG said:


> That tank sure is in a hurry. What is this capture the flag?


They may be on way to Berlin. Should ask to the tank commander.

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## Daniel808

Ukrainians confused. Why Chechens siding with Russian to fight them 😂

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497119770633723915

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495147329690738688


8888888888888 said:


> Look like they went west



Yes, to Odessa and linking up with another Pro-Russian breakaway province in Transnistria (Moldova)



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495849398328348679


----------



## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> They may be on way to Berlin. Should ask to the tank commander.

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## Oldman1

Enigma SIG said:


> That tank sure is in a hurry. What is this capture the flag?


I mean wouldn't you go fast on a tank with a hammer and sickle flag of the Soviet Union?


----------



## Beast

Blinken, in call with India, stresses collective condemnation of Russian invasion


U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken spoke with India's foreign minister, Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, on Thursday and urged a "strong collective response" to condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the State Department said.




www.reuters.com





See @Wood

I told u , western pressure comes swift and fast. India either stand with western or Russia. There is no neutral. Both options are dead end for India.

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## dBSPL

The war for Kiev begins





Russian troops began to attack with all their might. They must be trying to get the job done before the international pressure gets higher. Neither Russian military casualties nor Ukrainian civilian casualties appear to be priority issues at the moment.

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## Daniel808

Russians outskirts of Kiev. That many? 

All vehicles marked with Z White insignia

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497127714943295488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497124326117629962

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## khansaheeb

lastofthepatriots said:


> I have video of dead russian soldiers in Kherson, but I can’t post due to graphic nature.

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## Enigma SIG

Oldman1 said:


> I mean wouldn't you go fast on a tank with a hammer and sickle flag of the Soviet Union?


I mean yeah I'd totally punch it.

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## Hydration

dBSPL said:


> The war for Kiev begins
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian troops began to attack with all their might. They must be trying to get the job done before the international pressure gets higher. Neither Russian military casualties nor Ukrainian civilian casualties appear to be priority issues at the moment.


ok that was fast we didnt break the 24 hour mark


----------



## Oldman1

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=344390867591375





Some POWs.


----------



## farok84

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497103375267250200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496985919357816836

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## Daniel808

From Hostomel, Outskirts of Kiev


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497126902816989195


----------



## Enigma SIG

Daniel808 said:


> Russians outskirts of Kiev. That many?
> 
> All vehicles marked with Z White insignia
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497127714943295488
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497124326117629962


They just wanna get to Kiev and drag that clown out of hiding.

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## RescueRanger

Members are reminded to Please refrain post graphic images unless you can blur them, if you want to share the video just provide a link and a warning i.e. (GRAPHIC). Thank you for your understanding.

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## dBSPL

Hydration said:


> ok that was fast we didnt break the 24 hour mark


But It was expected. We even discussed this here days ago. Even last night, the Ukrainian interior ministry said that the Russian armies will try to enter Kiev with tanks on the second day. Also, it's been more than 24h since the operation started (one hour after Putin's address to the nation).


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497129344887521280

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## Daniel808

*Breaking : Another 11 servicemen of the 53rd separate mechanized brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine surrendered near the settlement of Nikolaevsk.*

Will be waiting for photos



Enigma SIG said:


> They just wanna get to Kiev and drag that clown out of hiding.



But this is much Faster than I expected.
Taliban entered Kabul after 10 day with no opposition, and the US entered Baghdad after 3 weeks.

Russian entering Kiev in less than 48 hours

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## lastofthepatriots

khansaheeb said:


>


That’s the one.


----------



## Daniel808

Stupid Ukrainian officials 
This just turns all Kiev Residents as eligible military targets and no longer grants status of protection as civilians


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497130221312565271

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497130075929690113

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## Enigma SIG

Daniel808 said:


> *Breaking : Another 11 servicemen of the 53rd separate mechanized brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine surrendered near the settlement of Nikolaevsk.*
> 
> Will be waiting for photos
> 
> 
> 
> But this is much Faster than I expected.
> Taliban entered Kabul after 10 day with no opposition, and the US entered Baghdad after 3 weeks.
> 
> Russian entering Kiev in less than 48 hours


Might be that the general thinking in Ukrainian forces would've been to not put up a fight as they'd get steam rolled anyway. The ones that did were to put up a fight got decimated in the initial bombardment. 

Which is why the Russian forces are advancing so fast. Could be a trap though as the forces could be sitting ducks without a reliable supply line. Wouldn't matter anyway if the capital falls within the next 24 hours.

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## lastofthepatriots

dBSPL said:


> The war for Kiev begins
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian troops began to attack with all their might. They must be trying to get the job done before the international pressure gets higher. Neither Russian military casualties nor Ukrainian civilian casualties appear to be priority issues at the moment.


Obolon down.


----------



## mike2000 is back

Ali_Baba said:


> The Germans have been shameful - completely shameful for this Ukraine incident. We need to revisit Germany's place in the civilised demoncracies of the west and Nato ...


Lol well, Germany is more preoccupied with her own interests (which is normal as well in geo politics) than the interests of Europe. I think that's also one of the major flaws of the E.U, when push usually comes to shove, there are some E.U countries that will be more selfish than others and will prioritise their own personal interests over the interests of the union. Nothing wrong in that though, since every country has to look after their interests. However it also limits and weakens the union at times like this. 😁

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## dBSPL

Russian airfield in Millerovo, Rostov Oblast, number of russian aircraft have been destroyed.

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## Oldman1

Daniel808 said:


> Stupid Ukrainian officials
> This just turns all Kiev Residents as eligible military targets and no longer grants status of protection as civilians
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497130221312565271
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497130075929690113


Putin doesn't care about granting status of protection of civilians, he wants to end the war fast. Having an armed populace complicates matters.

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## mike2000 is back

HttpError said:


> Maybe he wants to settle some old score with Russian Federation or Tsar? But will eventually end up ceeding more British Territory to Russia.


What territory has Britain ever ceeded to Russia? Lol


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497132544000724998A Russian military convoy completely neutralized near Kherson.

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## khansaheeb

WATCH: Huge explosion seen in sky over Ukraine's capital Kyiv​

WATCH: Huge explosion seen in sky over Ukraine's capital KyivClose

A large explosion in the sky above Ukraine's capital of Kyiv has been captured on camera.
The BBC has confirmed it is in the Poznyaky neighbourhood.









Huge explosion spotted in sky above Kyiv


A large explosion in the sky is captured on camera on the second day of Russia's assault.



www.bbc.com


----------



## mike2000 is back

Huffal said:


> The AD equipment used by the Ukrainians is pretty much the same tech as what the Russians are using except older. Russians know the ins and outs of the systems and thus know how to destroy them. Its how their s300 have been getting destroyed and its how their entire 7th tac air wing has been destroyed.


Agree, I always find it funny and reediculous that some countries use mainly their neighbours military weapons for their entire military especially when that neighbour is not really on good terms with them. This should serve as a lesson as well for all those Eastern European countries to immediately get rid of their Russian weapons and replace all of them with Western or even Eastern Asian ones. At least that will give them abit of a fighting chance than fighting an enemy with the enemies own weapons(especially strategic weapons) . 😆

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497102632137244689

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## RescueRanger

Managed to find track down a Ukrainian CB radio frequency with intermittent chatter using WEBSDR:



http://sdr.cloudns.pro:8901/



27030.00 khz CW

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## Oldman1

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497132544000724998A Russian military convoy completely neutralized near Kherson.


Looks like all are artillery units, not surprised since they are far behind the convoy and easy to ambush.

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## Englishman

gambit said:


> You guys did not know that Russia promised *IN WRITING* that Russia will not attack Ukraine?



OK yank. Thank you for your 2 cents it is very much appreciated.












Enjoy stuffing your face with hot dogs and other such processed meats whilst your nation decimates 3rd world countries like Iraq and Libya based on a pack of lies.

Perhaps yanks will be brave enough to go into Somalia one day?

Interim, observe a nation with a genuine concern and mandate take on a more worthy opponent.

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## maverick1977

LeGenD said:


> It is sad to see a beautiful country being overrun in a war. I shudder to think what will happen to families and women in Ukraine after this. The world should pressure Russia to not commit war crimes in Ukraine at minimum.



i hear you. its a beautiful country.., very sad indeed

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## dBSPL

Oldman1 said:


> Looks like all are artillery units, not surprised since they are far behind the convoy and easy to ambush.


Very strange things are happening. Normally, an artillery unit does not move without a reconnaissance company.

An hour ago, a Russian special unit in Ukrainian uniforms tried to enter Kiev, some were killed. You can find the videos.

On the field, the Russian side seems to want to finish this job as soon as possible.

However, they can easily lose a lot soldiers/militas with this way.

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## Daniel808

Melitopol City now under Russian control


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497102340905746453


----------



## RescueRanger

Poland / Ukraine border crossing live web cam:









Ukraine Poland Border Live Steaming Webcams - Live Beach Cam


Enjoy these Ukraine Poland Border Live Steaming Webcams. This live cam is located at Medyka border crossing point from the Ukrainian side.




livebeachcam.net

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## Hydration

Englishman said:


> OK yank. Thank you for your 2 cents it is very much appreciated.
> 
> View attachment 818468
> 
> 
> View attachment 818469
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy stuffing your face with hot dogs and other such processed meats whilst your nation decimates 3rd world countries like Iraq and Libya based on a pack of lies.
> 
> Perhaps yanks will be brave enough to go into Somalia one day?
> 
> Interim, observe a nation with a genuine concern and mandate take on a more worthy opponent.


you act like the uk didnt do exactly the same as the americans in iraq and libya

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## mike2000 is back

lastofthepatriots said:


> They will continue aerial bombardment to try and break them, but I don’t think it’s going to work. After a week, I think the ruskis will go home. They don’t want to get bogged down in an insurgency.


To be honest, I don't think Russia will be leaving Ukraine anytime soon. Maybe they will NEVER LEAVE UKRAINE AGAIN ACTUALLY. The only way I see them leaving Ukraine is if they have succeeded in turning Ukraine into a vassal state or Russian satellite states like Belarus, Kazakhstan, Syria,Tajikistan etc etc, even so they will maintain a military contingence/troops there like they have in most of these countries.

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## Beast

mike2000 is back said:


> Agree, I always find it funny and reediculous that some countries use mainly their neighbours military weapons for their entire military especially when that neighbour is not really on good terms with them. This should serve as a lesson as well for all those Eastern European countries to immediately get rid of their Russian weapons and replace all of them with Western or even Eastern Asian ones. At least that will give them abit of a fighting chance than fighting an enemy with the enemies own weapons(especially strategic weapons) . 😆


Luckily, it's not Ukraine using western weapon, if not western could not deflect the fact even western weapon cannot save Ukraine


----------



## Daniel808

A rally in support of the LPR and DPR was held in St. Petersburg.

The youth of St. Petersburg supported the recognition of the independence of the young Republics by the President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497109105554735109

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497136412046544896

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## Patriot forever

farok84 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497103375267250200
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496985919357816836



The best Ukraine should do is to accept Russian peace offer.

Demilitarize ( I don't think much of the big ticket systems are left anyway in terms of weapons/equipment or dedicated military infrastructure).

Sign a pact to not join NATO and be a neutral state.

Zelensky can stay as Russians didn't ask for his resignation.

There is no point to this war, will only lead to more destruction of infrastructure and loss of lives in Ukraine. Literally at this point they are fighting for the west rather than their own benefit.

In return ask Russia to roll back recognition of the newly independent republics (if they are given some form of autonomy within Ukraine) , preserving Ukraine territorial integrity.

( West sees Ukraine as Afghanistan, they don't care at this point what happens to Ukraine. They are only interested to further agitate the conflict to bleed Russia. Its clear what they plan to do and Ukraine interests is the least of their concern right now).

Reactions: Like Like:
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## dBSPL

Englishman said:


> OK yank. Thank you for your 2 cents it is very much appreciated.
> 
> View attachment 818468
> 
> 
> View attachment 818469
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy stuffing your face with hot dogs and other such processed meats whilst your nation decimates 3rd world countries like Iraq and Libya based on a pack of lies.
> 
> Perhaps yanks will be brave enough to go into Somalia one day?
> 
> Interim, observe a nation with a genuine concern and mandate take on a more worthy opponent.


Russia has been criticizing them for 10 years. Now it does exactly the same thing.

Just 4 days ago, Russian government spokesman Peskov said that Russia has never declared war on anyone throughout its history, that they did not think of invading Ukraine and that Russia's name could never come together with the word war. 72 hours later they started invading Ukraine.

To hell with the USA. But please don't use the US invasion here as a means of legitimizing the invasion of Russia with whataboutism.

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## Oldman1

dBSPL said:


> Very strange things are happening. Normally, an artillery unit does not move without a reconnaissance company.
> 
> An hour ago, a Russian special unit in Ukrainian uniforms tried to enter Kiev, some were killed. You can find the videos.
> 
> On the field, the Russian side seems to want to finish this job as soon as possible.
> 
> However, they can easily lose a lot soldiers/militas with this way.


Well this is a big gamble and sometimes you have to throw the rulebook out the window. Don't have time to check if everything is clear and move on. They are going all in to end the war quick which means bypassing Ukrainian units, which means exposing their rear forces to attacks and leaving anybody behind dead or alive and captured. Like you said they have to do this quick, they don't have the forces to take all of Ukraine in a traditional occupying army after eliminating all forces in the country. They could lose many soldiers this way, but end the war quick, better than seeing a prolonged war that could lead to many thousands of Russian soldiers' deaths.

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## Daniel808

Enigma SIG said:


> Might be that the general thinking in Ukrainian forces would've been to not put up a fight as they'd get steam rolled anyway. The ones that did were to put up a fight got decimated in the initial bombardment.
> 
> Which is why the Russian forces are advancing so fast. Could be a trap though as the forces could be sitting ducks without a reliable supply line. Wouldn't matter anyway if the capital falls within the next 24 hours.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497135606803095565

Seems, They are panicking and trying to hide in Civilian neighbourhood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497136438906871817

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497132409820700679

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497138209251155969

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## Beast

Daniel808 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497135606803095565
> 
> Seems, They are panicking and trying to hide in Civilian neighbourhood
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497136438906871817
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497132409820700679


Russian military need to arrest zelenskyy and execute him. Drag his body on the street of Kiev. Neo Nazi and traitor will have no good ending.

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## RescueRanger

Another live Ukranian CB radio picked up on WEB SDR:






27130.00 Khz Band 27 CW.


----------



## kahu

Lesson for Pakistan 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496730654699966468

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## Pak47

This one's pretty crazy. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497138886144897036
Not sure why the SU didn't turn back into the mig.

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## mike2000 is back

Ali_Baba said:


> Ukranian Prime Minister is so out of his depth - it is no longer funny.. this should have been done months ago - along with procurement of MANPADS, SAMs, etc ..


What do you expect? Ukraine never took its security seriously to be honest. Even after the Russian invasion and annexation of Crimea and subsequent Russian covert operations supporting separatists in Eastern Ukraine. You would have thought any moderately sane country going through something like that would have woken up and at least try and armed itself to the best of its ability and build up it's military on a war footing(any country I can think of would have done that giving irrespective of their conditions especially so giving Ukraine's situation ). 
However they didn't, in fact their political class was so naive that just a few days prior to this Russian invasion Ukraine's president was actually saying Russia will not invade his country(despite our intelligence services already saying Russia was preparing for an invasion for weeks before this), their political class actually believed Putin when he was saying Russia will never invade Ukraine, Only a fool will believe his enemy/adversary. Always prepare for the worse with your enemy while hoping for the best. Shows you are naive and unprepared Ukraines political class has been. I'm not surprised if Russia takes the whole country in a week. The level of unpreparedness of the country is shocking. Only the normal soldier has shown bravery and competence to fight to the best of their abilities. The leadership is totally incompetent. Lol

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## Hydration

Pak47 said:


> This one's pretty crazy.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497138886144897036
> Not sure why the SU didn't turn back into the mig.


thats DCS footage edited in its not real

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## 8888888888888

Patriot forever said:


> The best Ukraine should do is to accept Russian peace offer.
> 
> Demilitarize ( I don't think much of the big ticket systems are left anyway in terms of weapons/equipment or dedicated military infrastructure).
> 
> Sign a pact to not join NATO and be a neutral state.
> 
> Zelensky can stay as Russians didn't ask for his resignation.
> 
> There is no point to this war, will only lead to more destruction of infrastructure and loss of lives in Ukraine. Literally at this point they are fighting for the west rather than their own benefit.
> 
> In return ask Russia to roll back recognition of the newly independent republics (if they are given some form of autonomy within Ukraine) , preserving Ukraine territorial integrity.
> 
> ( West sees Ukraine as Afghanistan, they don't care at this point what happens to Ukraine. They are only interested to further agitate the conflict to bleed Russia. Its clear what they plan to do and Ukraine interests is the least of their concern right now).


Not realistic, they want the country to be another Belarus


----------



## Enigma SIG

Beast said:


> Russian military need to arrest zelenskyy and execute him. Drag his body on the street of Kiev. Neo Nazi and traitor will have no good ending.


Too much.
Get him to work in RT for the rest of life doing shows where he tells why it's not good to poke the bear. Enough punishment for him.

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## Englishman

mike2000 is back said:


> To be honest, I don't think Russia will be leaving Ukraine anytime soon. Maybe they will NEVER LEAVE UKRAINE AGAIN ACTUALLY. The only way I see them leaving Ukraine is if they have succeeded in turning Ukraine into a vassal state or Russian satellite states like Belarus, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan etc, even so they will maintain a military contingence/troops there like they have in most of these countries.



Mike...my thoughts

All we had to do was say fine...Ukraine won't be a part of nato. Russia met with the "west" and outlined their concerns very clearly. I trust the Russians when they say they were met with arrogance.

I think it's a fair request on their part. After all, USA won't allow a foreign alliance based anywhere around them so why should Russia?

I also distinctly remember what happened to Ukraine in 2014....we as in the "west" helped fuel it. We've been busy fueling discord across the globe....from the ME, China, Asia , S. America etc 

Considering the mess created in Iraq ( see Chilcot enquiry), I don't think we have the right to school the Russians. 

Perhaps someone can convince me otherwise...

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## RescueRanger

Pak47 said:


> This one's pretty crazy.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497138886144897036
> Not sure why the SU didn't turn back into the mig.



That looks suspicious to me, lately PSF's tweets have been getting a little sloppy.

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## Daniel808

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497136412046544896



That's Strela-10 of Ukrainian Air Defence Force


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497139286067617794
This is the same vehicle

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497123672196276229

Russian didn't send their SAM lonely without company in the middle of Kiev City


----------



## Pak47

RescueRanger said:


> That looks suspicious to me, lately PSF's tweets have been getting a little sloppy.


Ahh ok. Probably jumped the gun.



Hydration said:


> thats DCS footage edited in its not real


Sure makes a lot more sense on SUs reaction then. Confirmed edited :-\

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## Hydration

Englishman said:


> Mike...my thoughts
> 
> All we had to do was say fine...Ukraine won't be a part of nato. Russia met with the "west" and outlined their concerns very clearly. I trust the Russians when they say they were met with arrogance.
> 
> I think it's a fair request on their part. After all, USA won't allow a foreign alliance based anywhere around them so why should Russia?
> 
> I also distinctly remember what happened to Ukraine in 2014....we as in the "west" helped fuel it. We've been busy fueling discord across the globe....from the ME, China, Asia , S. America etc
> 
> Considering the mess created in Iraq ( see Chilcot enquiry), I don't think we have the right to school the Russians.
> 
> Perhaps someone can convince me otherwise...


well said

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## Daniel808

Even Georgian only did a lip service to poor ukraines 😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497139791896670208
British Airways will lost Asian-Pacific market for sure

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497130832963969024

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## Clutch

Bleek said:


> Just identify as a woman or non-binary and leave the country
> 
> Easy


That's how Liberals get out of conscription


----------



## dBSPL

Russian Su-30 fighter jet burned down on the Ukrainian border. Sabotage?

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## Daniel808

HAHAHAHA 😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497143118344433668

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## RescueRanger

An RAF Eurofighter escorting an RAF Refueler over Polish Airspace.

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## gambit

Englishman said:


> Enjoy stuffing your face with hot dogs and other such processed meats whilst your nation decimates 3rd world countries like Iraq and Libya based on a pack of lies.


Bloke, I was stationed at RAF Upper Heyford for 3 three yrs, doing my part defending your little island country. I can speak plenty about English cuisine. 🤮

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497133723531239439

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## gambit

Patriot forever said:


> The best Ukraine should do is to accept Russian peace offer.
> 
> Demilitarize ( I don't think much of the big ticket systems are left anyway in terms of weapons/equipment or dedicated military infrastructure).
> 
> *Sign a pact to not join NATO and be a neutral state.*


Why? Russia made a *WRITTEN* promise to Ukraine not to attack Ukraine if Ukraine did <something> and Ukraine kept its side of the bargain. NATO was not mentioned in that promise. Russia broke that promise.

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## Hydration

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 818475
> 
> An RAF Eurofighter escorting an RAF Refueler over Polish Airspace.


why are the allowing their positions to be exposed on the internet like that


----------



## RescueRanger

Daniel808 said:


> That's Strela-10 of Ukrainian Air Defence Force
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497139286067617794
> This is the same vehicle
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497123672196276229
> 
> Russian didn't send their SAM lonely without company in the middle of Kiev City


Second video looks like a Boomerang K-17.


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Hydration said:


> why are the allowing their positions to be exposed on the internet like that


To mark their territories example like a lion marking his territory with peeing to show others this area is taken and being defended

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## gambit

Hydration said:


> why are the allowing their positions to be exposed on the internet like that


Because in peacetime, even military aircrafts must file flight plans.

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## Messerschmitt

dBSPL said:


> Russia has been criticizing them for 10 years. Now it does exactly the same thing.
> 
> Just 4 days ago, Russian government spokesman Peskov said that Russia has never declared war on anyone throughout its history, that they did not think of invading Ukraine and that Russia's name could never come together with the word war. 72 hours later they started invading Ukraine.
> 
> To hell with the USA. But please don't use the US invasion here as a means of legitimizing the invasion of Russia with whataboutism.


Those people are not opposed to invasions, they are only against invasions done by western countries.

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## dBSPL

Ukrainian Crimean Tatar journalist Gülsum Khalilova:

"In the 21st century, we live in the darkness of 1941. A country in the middle of Europe is being invaded. But we are here and we continue to work.

We know that our channel is known by the Russians and we were already receiving constant threats. We know that we will be among the targets when the Russians enter Kiev, but we will not leave our country. We would rather die with honor than live in fear.

The Ukrainian people are resisting as much as they can. The world, on the other hand, is afraid to even condemn it. One day will come, it will be late, but when their capital is invaded, they will understand our situation. Love to everyone from Kiev."


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497136525456334855

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## jamahir

Oldman1 said:


> Don't need to be an imperialist, capitalist, plutocratic, two party dictatorship political system to launch invasions. Look at past conflicts where wars have started not by U.S. I mean are you surprised we didn't start WW1 or WW2?



But what about most wars since ?



dBSPL said:


>



I am an anti-war and anti-military person but that is a wonderful sight.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Cryptic_Mafia

Patriot forever said:


> The best Ukraine should do is to accept Russian peace offer.
> 
> Demilitarize ( I don't think much of the big ticket systems are left anyway in terms of weapons/equipment or dedicated military infrastructure).
> 
> Sign a pact to not join NATO and be a neutral state.
> 
> Zelensky can stay as Russians didn't ask for his resignation.
> 
> There is no point to this war, will only lead to more destruction of infrastructure and loss of lives in Ukraine. Literally at this point they are fighting for the west rather than their own benefit.
> 
> In return ask Russia to roll back recognition of the newly independent republics (if they are given some form of autonomy within Ukraine) , preserving Ukraine territorial integrity.
> 
> ( West sees Ukraine as Afghanistan, they don't care at this point what happens to Ukraine. They are only interested to further agitate the conflict to bleed Russia. Its clear what they plan to do and Ukraine interests is the least of their concern right now).


that will put a big dent on American super poweri and a massive geopolitical switch from west to Asia!

gg Putin if you succeed youll be respected i just hope loss of life is minimum! but then again this is a revolution against western hypocrites and blood will be unfortunately spilled!

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## UKBengali

Report came in last hour that Ukraine air force has delivered a strike on a Russian airfield and destroying a number of Russian aircraft.

Also the Russians got kicked out of that airport outside Kyev they captured yesterday by Ukrainian forces.

UK Defence Secretary says Russia lost 450 troops yesterday and this is not sustainable for too long.

Looks like the invasion is not going according to plan and this could get messy and protracted with heavy casualties on both sides.

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## RescueRanger

Reports of heavy shelling/rocket fire in kharkiv - AP News wire.

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## Englishman

gambit said:


> Bloke, I was stationed at RAF Upper Heyford for 3 three yrs, doing my part defending your little island country. I can speak plenty about English cuisine. 🤮


Yes...respect


----------



## gambit

Cryptic_Mafia said:


> gg Putin if you succeed youll be respected i just hope loss of life is minimum! but then again this is a revolution against western hypocrites and blood will be unfortunately spilled!


But Russia made a *WRITTEN* promise, witnessed by countries, that Russia will not attack Ukraine. You did not know that?

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## Hydration

gambit said:


> Why? Russia made a *WRITTEN* promise to Ukraine not to attack Ukraine if Ukraine did <something> and Ukraine kept its side of the bargain. NATO was not mentioned in that promise. Russia broke that promise.


pal that agreement is within any 2 countries with peace in mind and is the basic bands of peace. Didnt the us break that treaty with syria libya iraq? on the other hand nato broke their promise of not expanding after germany. This is what the us does they agree on a treaty then never sign it to violate it this is whats happening with egypt and jordan over pumping gas to lebanon thru syria ( they fear the us would put sanctions on them for pumping it thru syria so theyre demanding a signed agreement from the us so they wont be backstabbed)

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## monitor

beijingwalker said:


> NATO rules out intervention in Ukraine, Kyiv may fall in 24 hours​








After poking sleeping Russian bear making Ukrainian dieing NATO'S goes hiding. 😡

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## UKBengali

gambit said:


> But Russia made a *WRITTEN* promise, witnessed by countries, that Russia will not attack Ukraine. You did not know that?





Russia has dishonoured itself by attacking Ukraine and this will go down in history as a black stain on the Russian nation.

But the USA and UK were co-promisers and they have also failed Ukraine in the Budapest Memorandum.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497144988790304770

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497146226864762885

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497146570370072578

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497144239876100096

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## khansaheeb

Daniel808 said:


> Melitopol City now under Russian control
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497102340905746453


Why haven't the Russians imposed a curfew? Allowing the traffic to flow is shocking.


----------



## gambit

Hydration said:


> pal that agreement is within any 2 countries with peace in mind and is the basic bands of peace. Didnt the us break that treaty with syria libya iraq? on the other hand *nato broke their promise of not expanding after germany.* This is what the us does they agree on a treaty then never sign it to violate it this is whats happening with egypt and jordan over pumping gas to lebanon thru syria ( they fear the us would put sanctions on them for pumping it thru syria so theyre demanding a signed agreement from the us so they wont be backstabbed)


When Russia made that *WRITTEN* promise not to attack Ukraine, NATO was not component to the promise.


----------



## 313ghazi

gambit said:


> Bloke, I was stationed at RAF Upper Heyford for 3 three yrs, doing my part defending your little island country. I can speak plenty about English cuisine. 🤮



LOL so true. English cuisine is nothing to write home about but I reckon its still got America trumped. 

I tried American sweets - horrible, especially Hersheys chocolate, what is that?! 

Thanks for FKC and Burgers though. The world owes you a debt.

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## Clutch

Daniel808 said:


> You should see this 😂
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496547564862246918



Sloppy Joe just wants to fart like an old impotent man...

The Taliban kicked his ***... Now Putin... How many *** licking will these looser Yankees take???

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497140270269358080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497128097140858901

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## Patriot forever

gambit said:


> Why? Russia made a *WRITTEN* promise to Ukraine not to attack Ukraine if Ukraine did <something> and Ukraine kept its side of the bargain. NATO was not mentioned in that promise. Russia broke that promise.



If you are referring to 'soviet nuclear weapons' that was a long time ago. Back than I don't think joining NATO was a concern. Its only after the western countries deliberate expansion to Russian borders triggered the recent chain of events.

Look what you guys did to CUBA.

Russia was patient and didn't push for agitation right until you guys tried to move to its underbelly (left Russia no choice). Its a geopolitical game starting from the orchestrated removal of Pro Russian governemnt that led to 2014.

*It has nothing to with freedom or democracy whatever logic commonly used to justify pure geopolitical objectives. Its like finding a reason afterwards to lure the people, whatever gains traction after the planning is done. Same goes for most of US wars. *

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## dBSPL

Pak47 said:


> This one's pretty crazy.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497138886144897036
> Not sure why the SU didn't turn back into the mig.


bcs it is fake
Shooting merged with DCS


----------



## Dai Toruko

The Ukrainian Army, which was shaken after the first attacks of Russia, showed us yesterday that it is an army, that it has come back to life and started to react.

If the Ukrainian Army can repel today's attacks, this conflict will turn into a HYBRID War and things will become very difficult for the Russians.

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## RescueRanger

Came across these three encrypted broadcasts just now:

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

I think this two brave turkish girls are trapped in Kharkiv

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497140643344359427
you can hear gunshoots in the background she is not far from but there is zero fear in her

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497136525456334855


----------



## RescueRanger

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> I think this two brave turkish girls are trapped in Kharkiv
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497140643344359427
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497136525456334855



*Thark ke inthaya hain.





*

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## gambit

Patriot forever said:


> If you are referring to 'soviet nuclear weapons' that was a long time ago. Back than I don't think joining NATO was a concern. Its only after the western countries deliberate expansion to Russian borders triggered the recent chain of events.
> 
> Look what you guys did to CUBA.
> 
> Russia was patient and didn't push for agitation right until you guys tried to move to its underbelly (left Russia no choice). Its a geopolitical game starting from the orchestrated removal of Pro Russian governemnt that led to 2014.
> 
> *It has nothing to with freedom or democracy whatever logic commonly used to justify pure geopolitical objectives. Its like finding a reason afterwards to lure the people, whatever gains traction after the planning is done. Same goes for most of US wars. *


So at least you admit that Russia broke a promise.

As a sovereign state, Ukraine was fully within its rights to join any alliance but the problem for Ukraine was that NATO never considered Ukraine for membership in the first place. Whatever was insinuated was nothing more than chatter.

As for Cuba, what we did was a blockade. We could have invaded, killed all Soviet advisors, and took every missile on the island and there was nothing the Soviet Union could have done. Instead, we let the Soviets carted off the missiles and saved some face.


----------



## RescueRanger

Another CB broadcast on CW band 14 @ 14130.44 kHz 

You can tune in here:


http://sdr.cloudns.pro:8901/


----------



## Enigma SIG

Oh my days!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497151176349003796

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## dBSPL

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> I think this two brave turkish girls are trapped in Kharkiv
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497140643344359427
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497136525456334855


Dude, except for the citizens of Turkey; Half a million people of Turkish origin live in Ukraine. And the homeland of most of them is the regions currently occupied by Russia. These people are Muslims, but they are not seen as Muslims in general in this forum because they are Turkish at the same time...

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## Enigma SIG

dBSPL said:


> bcs it is fake
> Shooting merged with DCS


Fake similar to "Ghost of Kyiv". I swear it's true!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497151188185219072


----------



## RescueRanger

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 818481
> 
> Another CB broadcast on CW band 14 @ 14130.44 kHz
> 
> You can tune in here:
> 
> 
> http://sdr.cloudns.pro:8901/









27350.00 band 27 on LSB broadcasting some sort of looped message.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497152338255036416

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## dBSPL

An artistic work from Kharkov. (Unexploded Russian missile)

Here, the author emphasizes the complexity of the postmodern world.

Joking aside, Russia is hitting certain areas without making any distinction there are civilians or not.

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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497146494822068235


----------



## Patriot forever

gambit said:


> So at least you admit that Russia broke a promise.
> 
> As a sovereign state, Ukraine was fully within its rights to join any alliance but the problem for Ukraine was that NATO never considered Ukraine for membership in the first place. Whatever was insinuated was nothing more than chatter.
> 
> As for Cuba, what we did was a blockade. We could have invaded, killed all Soviet advisors, and took every missile on the island and there was nothing the Soviet Union could have done. Instead, we let the Soviets carted off the missiles and saved some face.



Wasn't it Cuba's right to whoever they wanted to host on their land. Why the blockade than? (It was much deeper but anyways quoting your own words)

Again if that blockade ( as you said) would not have worked you would have done the same things as mentioned.

The rationale is not different.

The excuse you would have made would be something like spreading democracy or anything else that sells. That doesn't change the actual reasoning or objectives.

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## Daniel808

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497152338255036416



Plainly stupid move


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497153662329757696


----------



## gambit

Patriot forever said:


> Wasn't it Cuba's right to do whoever they want to host on their land. Why the blockade than? (It was much deeper but anyways quoting your own words)
> 
> Again if that blockade ( as you said) would not have worked you would have done the same things as mentioned.
> 
> *The rationale is not different.*
> 
> The excuse you would have made would be something like spreading democracy or anything else that sells. That doesn't change the actual reasoning or objectives.


You are correct about the rationale. No one wanted such threats to be so close to home soil.

But the problem for your argument is that NATO never considered Ukraine for membership from the time Russia made that *WRITTEN* promise not to violate Ukraine's sovereignty, and that Ukraine never hosted anyone. I am willing to predict that as time go by, it will be increasingly clear that Putin made up his rationale to break Russia's *WRITTEN* promise to Ukraine. Look at the social turmoil in Russia now.

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## dBSPL

Russian forces took 100% control of Konotop and Sumy Oblast. Confirmed.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497155056008929281

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497153176465780746^ and I thought Trump was a madman.


----------



## casual

gambit said:


> You are correct about the rationale. No one wanted such threats to be so close to home soil.
> 
> But the problem for your argument is that NATO never considered Ukraine for membership from the time Russia made that *WRITTEN* promise not to violate Ukraine's sovereignty, and that Ukraine never hosted anyone. I am willing to predict that as time go by, it will be increasingly clear that Putin made up his rationale to break Russia's *WRITTEN* promise to Ukraine. Look at the social turmoil in Russia now.


Russian promised to not violate Ukraine sovereignty if Ukraine promised it wouldn't try to join NATO as part of the Minsk agreement. Ukraine reneged.

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## Brainsucker

jamahir said:


> But what about most wars since ?
> 
> 
> 
> I am an anti-war and anti-military person but that is a wonderful sight.


LOL, if you are an anti war and anti military person, you won't be here, in PDF.


----------



## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> You guys did not know that Russia promised *IN WRITING* that Russia will not attack Ukraine?


Didn't somebody promised on the same page of paper not to advance east ?

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## WinterFangs

313ghazi said:


> In Heyford your miles and miles away from a good curry too.
> 
> A lot of restaurants serve a version of curry designed for white people. You need to travel to the cities with big Asian populations and eat in the places where your surrounded with Asian faces to get an authentic curry. There is a world of difference too.
> 
> Mind you the brits have excelled with fish and chips. It's by far the best dish they do. Although down south you probably got offered eel and those horrible boiled sausages they have too.


How can anyone in their sane mind eat jelly eels. I guess what Some recognisable ‘pure English‘ dishes are bangers and mash, fish and chips, Shepards pie, full English breakfast (black pudding) , steak and kidney pie and Yorkshire pudding. And no one even eats these regularly, it’s more of a once a week thing. Easily the most famous dishes In uk are curry, in London brick lane is the most renounced curry house area.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497155907981094919

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497155685175508993


----------



## dBSPL

dBSPL said:


> An artistic work from Kharkov. (Unexploded Russian missile)
> 
> Here, the author emphasizes the complexity of the postmodern world.
> 
> Joking aside, Russia is hitting certain areas without making any distinction there are civilians or not.








Another unexploded Smerch.

The places where these rockets fell are definitely not military points. They threw rockets at civilians.

It's like a state of insanity...

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## Riz



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## gambit

casual said:


> Russian promised to not violate Ukraine sovereignty if Ukraine promised it wouldn't try to join NATO as part of the Minsk agreement. *Ukraine reneged.*


How did Ukraine reneged? But the Russian *WRITTEN* promise not to attack Ukraine predated the Minsk agreement.



Hack-Hook said:


> Didn't somebody promised on the same page of paper not to advance east ?


If you have that paper, bring it.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497155720495702019


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497156716835876864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497155478488559619

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497157146185773083

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## gambit

Finland is now seriously considering NATO membership. Спасибо Russia.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497152861792358400^ you can't make that stuff up.

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## dBSPL

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497152861792358400^ you can't make that stuff up.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497157166612033569

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## Musings

gambit said:


> But Russia made a *WRITTEN* promise, witnessed by countries, that Russia will not attack Ukraine. You did not know that?



So Mr Gambit - you jump on a promise witnessed by other countries - yet neglect to see any "breaking of promises" by the great leader of democracy and truth of the flags you fly? 

_Declassified documents tell the story of how American officials led the Russians to believe that no expansion would be undertaken by NATO, then later nearly doubled the size of the alliance. Russian and American transcripts and summaries of high-level meetings, posted in recent years by the National Security Archive at George Washington University, record multiple assurances in the early 1990s.

Some were explicit, others implicit and subject to interpretation. They were given repeatedly in various forms to Gorbachev, Russian President Boris Yeltsin, and other Russian officials by the highest American and European leaders, including President George H. W. Bush, Secretary of State James Baker, CIA Director Robert Gates, West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl, West German Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher, British Prime Ministers Margaret Thatcher and John Major, French President François Mitterrand, and NATO Secretary General Manfred Wörner._

So pumping up the Ukraine and giving them the pat on the back to stoke up confrontation against Russia is "ok" with the likes of you - yet selectively avoid the promises made by the USA? Putin and Russia have every right to protect its existence and any potential threat on its doorstep. 
Russia want to show the world - the world is no longer revolving around the USA. 
They assisted in Trump being elected - they existed Brexit creating havoc in both countries. Now flexing their biceps. Russia aint no Afghanistan Iraq Libya or Syria.

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## Scorpio_26

The Air assault on Hostomel Airport ended up very badly for Russians. Their elite VDV were butchered by Ukrainian Spetsnaz, it was a very risky move they shouldn't have done it.
It gave the Ukrainians a moral boost and now they are facing very tough resistance from Ukrainians.

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## The Eagle

There are different sides of same story. However, human loss cannot be celebrated neither enjoyed or treated as nothing happened.


Ukraine shouldn't have been in affair of NATO knowing well that Russia wouldn't welcome.
Russia promised of no invasion but only if NATO stops where it is.
NATO been hell bent to corner Russia and couldn't get out of obsession.
NATO continued with expansion by adding more & more countries.
Ukraine miscalculated everything and merely believed into something that doesn't exist.
Ukraine was unprepared with defence & punched above weight.
NATO/US wanted Russia to be dragged into a conflict & be sanctioned.
NATO couldn't see rising Russia & needed a reason to suck them into a whole.
Russia on other hand went ahead before the threat could appear on the ground.
Public may not see NATO support in Ukraine but no one can ignore the fact of covert ops.
Ukraine will be provided with weapons & what if with militia as well.
Russia had done their calculation and so the NATO as well.
Ukraine should have understood the same before becoming a threat.
Russia now seems to be stuck if conflict pro-longed exactly as what NATO would like to.
NATO instigated the Russia, Ukraine became the bait and Moscow apparently chewed it.
It has to be seen whether Russia had calculated all that or NATO will be surprised.
One thing for sure is that, Russia has seen itself being encircled & had no choice but to go offensive like this for its future. Beneficial or not; will have to be seen.
US/NATO will play their game since it is Ukraine at receiving end while Russia will be targeted as well.
It will be foolish to not to blame NATO for provoking Russia by offering NATO status for Ukraine, for such an aggression.
On the same time, Russia could have waited if Ukraine was really going to join NATO but lost the patience & seems to be played right as planned.
Parties involved will project & promote their respective stories in this conflict.
Public will believe the one with much bigger loud speaker and far reach of their media influence.
The more being said repeatedly to prove one being evil; public in far regions will believe into and that is what being the goal. 
On ground losses or attacks are merely just the ingredients to cook such a story against the rival and weak them in public eye.

May the sanity prevail and human losses be stopped.

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## Cryptic_Mafia

gambit said:


> But Russia made a *WRITTEN* promise, witnessed by countries, that Russia will not attack Ukraine. You did not know that?


and Nato had an agreement they wont expand east!


----------



## Daniel808

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497155720495702019



It's T-80BV. So Probably from ukrainian.

Why every Tanks & Armored Vehicles that Ukraine propagandist claimed to capture or destroy. There is no Z white insignia on that vehicles.

As we can see, Russians put Z White insignia in all their Armored Vehicles especially the one that go to frontline

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497127714943295488

There are many cheap propaganda from ukrainian side

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496866582659743749


----------



## Dalit

kahu said:


> Lesson for Pakistan
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496730654699966468



Pakistan will never ever give up its nukes.

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## dBSPL

The driver, who was crushed by the Russian Strela, survived. He is currently receiving medical treatment.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497136027227598848

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## gambit

Musings said:


> So Mr Gambit - you jump on a promise witnessed by other countries - yet neglect to see any "breaking of promises" by the great leader of democracy and truth of the flags you fly?
> 
> _Declassified documents tell the story of how American officials led the Russians to believe that no expansion would be undertaken by NATO, then later nearly doubled the size of the alliance. Russian and American transcripts and summaries of high-level meetings, posted in recent years by the National Security Archive at George Washington University, record multiple assurances in the early 1990s.
> 
> Some were explicit, others implicit and subject to interpretation. They were given repeatedly in various forms to Gorbachev, Russian President Boris Yeltsin, and other Russian officials by the highest American and European leaders, including President George H. W. Bush, Secretary of State James Baker, CIA Director Robert Gates, West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl, West German Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher, British Prime Ministers Margaret Thatcher and John Major, French President François Mitterrand, and NATO Secretary General Manfred Wörner._
> 
> So pumping up the Ukraine and giving them the pat on the back to stoke up confrontation against Russia is "ok" with the likes of you - yet selectively avoid the promises made by the USA? Putin and Russia have every right to protect its existence and any potential threat on its doorstep.
> Russia want to show the world - the world is no longer revolving around the USA.
> They assisted in Trump being elected - they existed Brexit creating havoc in both countries. Now flexing their biceps. Russia aint no Afghanistan Iraq Libya or Syria.


Ukrainians fighting Russian army today will not care. As far as they know, NATO membership was never in the negotiations between Ukraine and Russia when Russia made that *WRITTEN* promise not to attack Ukraine. When Russia made that promise, Russia never brought up NATO as part of concessions from Ukraine. So even if Ukraine made any overture to NATO, Russia is bounded, or expected to, remain with what was promised. Why is it so difficult to accept that NATO was not part of Russia's *WRITTEN* promise?


----------



## Metal 0-1



Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## gambit

Cryptic_Mafia said:


> and Nato had an agreement they wont expand east!


Bring it up. Where?


----------



## Dalit

gambit said:


> Ukrainians fighting Russian army today will not care. As far as they know, NATO membership was never in the negotiations between Ukraine and Russia when Russia made that *WRITTEN* promise not to attack Ukraine. When Russia made that promise, Russia never brought up NATO as part of concessions from Ukraine. So even if Ukraine made any overture to NATO, Russia is bounded, or expected to, remain with what was promised. Why is it so difficult to accept that NATO was not part of Russia's *WRITTEN* promise?



Dude, this ia another Kurdish/Afghan episode for the US. Your Ukrainian puppets are asking questions.

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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497160676208488454


----------



## Patriot forever

gambit said:


> You are correct about the rationale. No one wanted such threats to be so close to home soil.
> 
> But the problem for your argument is that NATO never considered Ukraine for membership from the time Russia made that *WRITTEN* promise not to violate Ukraine's sovereignty, and that Ukraine never hosted anyone. I am willing to predict that as time go by, it will be increasingly clear that Putin made up his rationale to break Russia's *WRITTEN* promise to Ukraine. Look at the social turmoil in Russia now.



*The only concrete way to have peace is to respect each others valid rationale. *

'On December 1, 2020, the Minister of Defense of Ukraine Andrii Taran stated that Ukraine clearly outlines its ambitions to obtain the NATO Membership Action Plan and hopes for comprehensive political and military support for such a decision at the next Alliance Summit in 2021'.

Has NATO not expanded ? Their in lies the answer.


Anyways the best way to end this is for Ukraine to sign a pact ( endorsed by western European powers) that it will not join NATO. Inreturn Russia should roll back its recognition of separatist republics ( on assurances that Russian speaking regions will be treated fairly and enjoy some autonomy within the confines of the state).

West should stop flaming the war and using Ukrainians as cattle in their geopolitical objective to bleed Russia.

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## dBSPL

Died Russian soldiers, with Ukrainian army uniforms[SPOILE"]


----------



## RescueRanger

@The Eagle please can you review pages 166 164 165, people are going off topic and discussing food and cuisine and girl friends. Also I have reported a few messages from a poster which were very derogatory towards Ukrainian women, I would be obliged if you can review that too please. 

Members are reminded to please be respectful to loss of life, respectful to each other and kindly keeping on topic. You can all chat about food, cuisine, and thark on members section.



dBSPL said:


> Died Russian soldiers, with Ukrainian army uniforms
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497158166567526401
> The Russians are violating the Geneva Convention by completely ignoring the ethics of war.



Once again I am having to say this! *PLEASE DO NOT SHARE PICTURES OF GORE!*

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## dBSPL

Metal 0-1 said:


> View attachment 818494


I hope the battery lasts to the border.


----------



## TheNoob

dBSPL said:


> Died Russian soldiers, with Ukrainian army uniforms
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497158166567526401
> The Russians are violating the Geneva Convention by completely ignoring the ethics of war.



neither of us knows that. 
This is war and the fog will blind most of us. 

Unfortunate deaths of combatants is to be expected, regardless of the side.


----------



## Invicta

doorstar said:


> saveloy


Autocorrect can be annoying.


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497152398577577988


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497157329955008550


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497163445539647500



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497164383452946433


----------



## Han Patriot

lastofthepatriots said:


> View attachment 818496
> 
> 
> 
> He’s an Ace.


That's bullshit okay.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497166217559355399

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## WinterFangs

lastofthepatriots said:


> View attachment 818496
> 
> 
> 
> He’s an Ace.


It’s honestly not possible, hes More of a symbol to increase the morale, literally one video of him and claiming 6 Russian aircrafts he has downed which is bs.

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## dBSPL

TheNoob said:


> neither of us knows that.
> This is war and the fog will blind most of us.
> 
> Unfortunate deaths of combatants is to be expected, regardless of the side.


Nope, there's also a video of the event, but it's not in line with forum rules. He is shot after shoot at civilians. Since yesterday, saboteurs have been trying to infiltrate Kyiev. Numerous incidents were reported and images of some were shared.

And no, that can't be an excuse. There is an ethic of war. Most of these are written in the Geneva convention. Fight should be like a man. Moreover, the Russian army is not in a defensive position, but in an invader position. So such war crimes are in no way justifiable.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497166141223022622


----------



## lastofthepatriots

dBSPL said:


> Died Russian soldiers, with Ukrainian army uniforms
> 
> 
> Spoiler: link
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497158166567526401
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Russians are violating the Geneva Convention by completely ignoring the ethics of war.



These are the Russian soldiers that took the tanks with Ukrainian military uniforms. They got killed fast.

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## Riz

lastofthepatriots said:


> View attachment 818496
> 
> 
> 
> He’s an Ace.


Many videos games and edited videos circulating over social media

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496983880494198789

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497166851666759680

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## RescueRanger

lastofthepatriots said:


> View attachment 818496
> 
> 
> 
> He’s an Ace.

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## Bilal.

gambit said:


> Bring it up. Where?








NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard | National Security Archive


Western leaders gave multiple assurances against NATO expansion to Gorbachev in 1990-1991 according to declassified American, Russian, British, Germans documents




nsarchive.gwu.edu

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## RescueRanger

AJN: unconfirmed reports that sleeper cells of Russian soldiers/intelligence operatives are operating now in Kiev. 








Breaking News, World News and Video from Al Jazeera


News, analysis from the Middle East & worldwide, multimedia & interactives, opinions, documentaries, podcasts, long reads and broadcast schedule.




www.aljazeera.com

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## Maarkhoor

lastofthepatriots said:


> These are the Russian soldiers that took the tanks with Ukrainian military uniforms. They got killed fast.


Bro please stop sharing fake news.

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## Musings

gambit said:


> Ukrainians fighting Russian army today will not care. As far as they know, NATO membership was never in the negotiations between Ukraine and Russia when Russia made that *WRITTEN* promise not to attack Ukraine. When Russia made that promise, Russia never brought up NATO as part of concessions from Ukraine. So even if Ukraine made any overture to NATO, Russia is bounded, or expected to, remain with what was promised. Why is it so difficult to accept that NATO was not part of Russia's *WRITTEN* promise?



*So you want to highlight the written promise?
All animals in your eyes are equal but SOME seem to be more equal than others. *

Just a little list of the crap the USA have signed and ignored or broken.........

_Capriciousness about international treaties is an old US tradition. It starts with the country’s very creation: hundreds of treaties signed with Native American tribes that were either broken, or not ratified. Today, the US is one of the countries to have ratified the fewest number of international human rights treaties—of the 18 agreements passed by the UN, America has only ratified five.
_
_Treaties between the US and American Indian Nations (1722-1869)_​_According to the US national archives, 374 treaties (pdf, p.4) signed between the US and Native American Tribes from 1772 to 1867 were ratified. Of these, many were not respected: Only one article of the Pickering Treaty, or Treaty of Canadaigua of 1794, for instance, has been observed. Many others (18 in California alone, signed during the Gold Rush) were not even ratified. These include Treaty K, or the California Treaty, which promised reservations to American Indians within the state.
_
_Treaty of Versailles, 1919_​_President Woodrow Wilson was a promoter and negotiator of the treaty that ended World War I. The agreement was signed between the Allied Powers and Germany; commenting on the US’s role in brokering the deal, Wilson famously said, “At last the world knows America as the savior of the world!”


However, the president encountered strong and growing opposition to the treaty in Congress, and the US never ratified the Treaty of Versailles. In fact, the US didn’t formally end its war against Germany and the former Austro-Hungarian empire until 1921.
_
_International Labor Convention, 1949_​_The oldest treaty currently pending ratification in the Senate is an international recognition of the freedom of association and protection of the right to organize. The agreement was signed by 154 countries, including the US, and entered in full effect in 1950. However, the US never ratified it (pdf).
_
_Geneva Agreement, 1954_​_The Conference of Geneva in 1954 was called to put a final end to the Korean War and First Indochina War. The treaty was signed by Vietnam, France, China, the USSR, and the UK. Although the US participated in the conference and negotiations, it eventually refused to sign. However, it did agree to respect the ceasefire.
_
_International Covenant on Economic, Social, and Cultural Rights (ICESCR), 1966_​_Building onto the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the ICESCR expands the notion of basic rights beyond civil and political provisions. The agreement has been ratified by 166 countries. The US has signed, but has not ratified, the covenant.
_
_The Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discriminations Against Women (CEDAW), 1979_​_By signing CEDAW in 1980, the US become one of 156 signatories of a landmark agreement to end gender discrimination. Shortly after signing, then-president Jimmy Carter submitted the agreement for ratification to the Senate. It’s still waiting.
_
_The Law of the Sea, 1982_​_The UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) was held in Jamaica between 1973 and 1982. It established a set of rules and responsibilities governing the way countries and international bodies act in international waters. For instance, UNCLOS details the requirements of search and rescue at sea. In 1994, the US signed the agreement. However, it did not ratify it.
_
_Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC), 1989_​_The CRC is a landmark human rights document for several reasons. It’s the first defining agreement on the rights of children, and it incorporate a wide range of rights (education, health, justice) for minors. It achieved broad support very quickly, with near-unanimous ratification across the globe.

The US signed the agreement in 1995. It is the only country that has not ratified it.
_
_Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty, 1996_​_Although the treaty banning nuclear testing was adopted by the UN Assembly General in 1996, and has been ratified by 166 countries, the agreement is not yet into effect due to eight key countries who have not yet ratified it. The US, which signed in 1996, is one of them—the others are China, Egypt, India, Iran, Israel, North Korea, and Pakistan.
_
_Mine-Ban Treaty, or Ottawa Treaty, 1997_​_The mine ban’s goal is to eliminate anti-person mines, prohibiting their production, stockpiling, or use. The US is one of 33 states (including Russia, India, and China) that have signed but not ratified the treaty.
_
_Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, 1998_​_The Rome treaty establishing an international criminal court was negotiated by 148 countries. Of them, 120 approved of the final draft in 1998 (pdf), seven opposed it, and 21 abstained from voting.


Bill Clinton signed the agreement in 2000 but delayed submitting it to the Senate for ratification, on the grounds that the US needed to observe how the tribunal worked. Two years later, after the treaty had come into full effect and been ratified by 60 countries, George W Bush informed the United Nations that the US no longer intended to submit the agreement to the Senate for ratification at all.
_
_*Kyoto Protocol, 1997*_​_Though the US signed the agreement limiting carbon emissions, it never intended to ratify it. The US is one of just four UN member states that have not enforced the agreement, with Andorra, Canada, and South Sudan.
_
_Paris Climate Accord, 2015_​_The Paris deal to mitigate climate change by reducing emissions was signed by 195 member states in 2015, and became effective the following year. President Trump withdrew from the agreement on June 1, 2017. However, the US is still bound to follow the Paris deal’s requirements until 2020.
Several more international treaties are pending ratification from the US Senate, for a total of 45 between 1949 and 2017. The US is also notably absent from signing prominent international treaties including the Mine Ban Treaty, the Convention Against Torture, and on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities._

Now lets stick to the fact the USA are no longer the empire they pretend to be. Russia will not allow the USA to dictate to them or use Ukraine as a proxy. They are exercising their right to protect THEIR INTERESTS.
You are now part of a minority. The USA will not be allowed to go shitting around the world and devastating nations. Look at your way of introducing democracy to Libya. Arent you ashamed of the star and stripes today? Be honest - if thats possible.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497165145004515328


----------



## Trench Broom

The worry is that the Russians won't bother with street fighting in the capital and just flatten it. A tactic they used in Syria.
They would lose dozens of soldiers daily if they tried to take the capital house to house.


----------



## abdulbarijan

lastofthepatriots said:


> View attachment 818496
> 
> 
> 
> He’s an Ace.





RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 818498


Whether it is complete BS or not ... I suppose these are the type of stories that the Ukranians need to keep any semblance of hope alive for them at this point ... 

Gotta admit though ... "The Ghost of Kyiv" is one badass nickname!

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## jamahir

Brainsucker said:


> LOL, if you are an anti war and anti military person, you won't be here, in PDF.



I come here for the political discussions, for science and technology discussions, for music and for general discussions.

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## Patriot forever

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 818498



They are following the ANDSF script right until the fall of Kabul ( sorry Kiev). 

West is actively trying to flame the conflict, instead of deescalation and finding a solution. Ukrainians will be at the receiving while the LGBT crowd will cross border into neighbouring countries.

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## SIPRA

Maarkhoor said:


> Bro please stop sharing fake news.



He is standing solidly behind Ukraine.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497160147436777484

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## RescueRanger

Patriot forever said:


> They are following the ANDSF script right until the fall of Kabul ( sorry Kiev).
> 
> West is actively trying to flame the conflict, instead of deescalation and finding a solution. Ukrainians will be at the receiving while the LGBT crowd will cross border into neighbouring countries.


Their psyops advisers must be Bahia's.


----------



## dBSPL

abdulbarijan said:


> Gotta admit though ... "The Ghost of Kyiv" is one badass nickname!


Definitely makes me want to reinstall DCS. Remembering the controls will take time, but it's okay.


----------



## gambit

Patriot forever said:


> *The only concrete way to have peace is to respect each others valid rationale. *
> 
> 'On December 1, 2020, the Minister of Defense of Ukraine Andrii Taran stated that Ukraine clearly outlines its ambitions to obtain the NATO Membership Action Plan and hopes for comprehensive political and military support for such a decision at the next Alliance Summit in 2021'.
> 
> Has NATO not expanded ? Their in lies the answer.
> 
> 
> Anyways the best way to end this is for Ukraine to sign a pact ( endorsed by western European powers) that it will not join NATO. Inreturn Russia should roll back its recognition of separatist republics ( on assurances that Russian speaking regions will be treated fairly and enjoy some autonomy within the confines of the state).
> 
> West should stop flaming the war and using Ukrainians as cattle in their geopolitical objective to bleed Russia.


Not good enough. All we have is some verbiage about NATO. But I think I have delayed long enough.

When the Soviet Union broke up, the former satellites became owners of many Soviet military hardware. For Ukraine, that ownership involved nuclear weapons. The Budapest Agreement had Ukraine gave up all nuclear weapons. The US/UK helped Ukraine in the dismantling process. The nuclear fissile materials returned to Russia. In return, all parties agreed to respect Ukraine's independence which implied future independent foreign policies devoid of outside pressure. Russia, eager to get all the nuclear fissile materials, agreed.



http://www.pircenter.org/media/content/files/12/13943175580.pdf



*Budapest, 5 December 1994*​​*The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland,*​​Welcoming the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons as a non-nuclear-weapon State,​​Taking into account the commitment of Ukraine to eliminate all nuclear weapons from its territory within a specified period of time,​​Noting the changes in the world-wide security situation, including the end of the Cold War, which have brought about conditions for deep reductions in nuclear forces.​​Confirm the following:​​1. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, *to respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.*​​2. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their obligation to *refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine*, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.​​3. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to *refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.*​​4. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a nonnuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used.​​5. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm, in the case of the Ukraine, their commitment not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclear-weapon State Party 2 to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a state in association or alliance with a nuclear weapon state.​​6. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland will consult in the event a situation arises which raises a question concerning these commitments.​​This Memorandum will become applicable upon signature.​​Signed in four copies having equal validity in the English, Russian and Ukrainian languages.​​The problem here is that the Budapest Agreement of 1994 is not legally binding on all signatories. It was at best sort of a "gentlemen's handshake". All signatories promised not to attack Ukraine, but then no one promised to come to Ukraine's aid should Ukraine come under attack. And this is how Putin done it.

But ultimately, legal document or not, Russia is now seen as aggressor despite what was promised to Ukraine. The Budapest Agreement of 1994 *WILL* be disseminated throughout and the consequences will be many *IMPLICIT* memberships in NATO. Ukraine trusted Russia despite the absence of any legal protection and gave up the best guarantor of independence -- nuclear weapons. And was betrayed by Russia.

Спасибо, Vladimir Putin, for securing the future expansion of NATO.

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## Oom

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497163445539647500
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497164383452946433


He better not run away like Ghani. Be a man. Die for what you stood for. 

These politicians expect soldiers to die for their cause, while they tweet away.


----------



## Trench Broom

SIPRA said:


> He is standing solidly behind Ukraine.


While you stand with the Ruskie butchers of Syria


----------



## Patriot forever

Bilal. said:


> NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard | National Security Archive
> 
> 
> Western leaders gave multiple assurances against NATO expansion to Gorbachev in 1990-1991 according to declassified American, Russian, British, Germans documents
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nsarchive.gwu.edu



Everyone understands this is a well laid trap worked in for years for Russia and the cost is Ukrainian blood ( which the West is rallying to the slaughterhouse).

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## Enigma SIG

abdulbarijan said:


> Whether it is complete BS or not ... I suppose these are the type of stories that the Ukranians need to keep any semblance of hope alive for them at this point ...
> 
> Gotta admit though ... *"The Ghost of Kyiv" is one badass nickname!*


CIA rumor mills running overtime!

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## RescueRanger

Russia's wealthiest men have reportedly lost 39 Billion USD since the sanctions were levied against Russia for it's invasion of Ukraine. - AJN

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Bilal.

Patriot forever said:


> Everyone understands this is a well laid trap worked in for years for Russia and the cost is Ukrainian blood ( which the West is rallying to the slaughterhouse).


And I know what he will say as an answer. Oh it’s not a written agreement. Oh it was with Soviet leaders not Russia.


----------



## casual

gambit said:


> How did Ukraine reneged? But the Russian *WRITTEN* promise not to attack Ukraine predated the Minsk agreement.
> 
> 
> If you have that paper, bring it.











Ukraine enters Nato striking blow against arch-enemy Putin


UKRAINE is to enter NATO striking a blow against arch-enemy Vladimir Putin. President Volodymyr Zelensky said he welcomed his nation eventually joining the military alliance in a landmark move for …




www.thesun.co.uk




Ukraine gov was seeking to join NATO reneging on their promise not to according to the Minsk agreement signed in 2015

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## Enigma SIG

Trench Broom said:


> While you stand with the Ruskie butchers of Syria


Everyones butchering everyone in the world don't act like someone has the moral high ground here.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497169935805841408


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497163500858322948

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Arbiter

Ghost of Kyiv. Appropriate name since it's a ghost and doesn't exist. A made up hero to boost morale

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Han Patriot

casual said:


> Ukraine enters Nato striking blow against arch-enemy Putin
> 
> 
> UKRAINE is to enter NATO striking a blow against arch-enemy Vladimir Putin. President Volodymyr Zelensky said he welcomed his nation eventually joining the military alliance in a landmark move for …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thesun.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine gov was seeking to join NATO reneging on their promise not to according to the Minsk agreement signed in 2015


No point arguing with an imbecillic cheerleader. Russia was pushed into this and the US created this mess.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497170013136224259


----------



## RescueRanger

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497160147436777484


£20,000 war trophy.

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## Wood

Beast said:


> Blinken, in call with India, stresses collective condemnation of Russian invasion
> 
> 
> U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken spoke with India's foreign minister, Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, on Thursday and urged a "strong collective response" to condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the State Department said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See @Wood
> 
> I told u , western pressure comes swift and fast. India either stand with western or Russia. There is no neutral. Both options are dead end for India.


Yes, of course US will put pressure on India. The US also put pressure on India not to buy S 400. But from Indian perspective, China is the enemy and Russia is not. The Ukrainian ambassador in India has already made a statement that Ukraine is not happy with India's position in this matter. 

India will not confront Russia for the same reason that US will not take a military action against Russia. Both parties will do so to not give an advantage to China


----------



## SIPRA

Trench Broom said:


> While you stand with the Ruskie butchers of Syria



Would you mind pointing out to any of my post, in this thread, or otherwise, from where you made your opinion about me?


----------



## gambit

casual said:


> Ukraine enters Nato striking blow against arch-enemy Putin
> 
> 
> UKRAINE is to enter NATO striking a blow against arch-enemy Vladimir Putin. President Volodymyr Zelensky said he welcomed his nation eventually joining the military alliance in a landmark move for …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thesun.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine gov was seeking to join NATO reneging on their promise not to according to the Minsk agreement signed in 2015


Try again and harder...









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


He’s an Ace. Whether it is complete BS or not ... I suppose these are the type of stories that the Ukranians need to keep any semblance of hope alive for them at this point ... Gotta admit though ... "The Ghost of Kyiv" is one badass nickname!



defence.pk


----------



## RescueRanger

Something is happening in Kharkiev, lots of panicked chatter on this frequency, its a two tone radio, shame I can't speak Ukrainian or Russian


----------



## RescueRanger

RescueRanger said:


> Something is happening in Kharkiev, lots of panicked chatter on this frequency, its a two tone radio, shame I can't speak Ukrainian or Russian
> View attachment 818503








Another one broadcasting on 27250 band 14 CW.


----------



## casual

gambit said:


> Try again and harder...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> He’s an Ace. Whether it is complete BS or not ... I suppose these are the type of stories that the Ukranians need to keep any semblance of hope alive for them at this point ... Gotta admit though ... "The Ghost of Kyiv" is one badass nickname!
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


haha, no arguments? seems like I win


----------



## RescueRanger

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 818505
> 
> 
> Another one broadcasting on 27250 band 14 CW.



I've recorded some of the chatter including it here:





__





SndUp | Post info


Record, upload, share! SndUp is a social network, for audio! We enable you to upload audio clips and share them with the world. Sharing your talent is simple!



sndup.net





Apologies for the poor audio quality.


----------



## gambit

casual said:


> haha, no arguments? seems like I win


More like you do not read. So yes, you won via ignorance.


----------



## Patriot forever

gambit said:


> Not good enough. All we have is some verbiage about NATO. But I think I have delayed long enough.
> 
> When the Soviet Union broke up, the former satellites became owners of many Soviet military hardware. For Ukraine, that ownership involved nuclear weapons. The Budapest Agreement had Ukraine gave up all nuclear weapons. The US/UK helped Ukraine in the dismantling process. The nuclear fissile materials returned to Russia. In return, all parties agreed to respect Ukraine's independence which implied future independent foreign policies devoid of outside pressure. Russia, eager to get all the nuclear fissile materials, agreed.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.pircenter.org/media/content/files/12/13943175580.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> *Budapest, 5 December 1994*​​*The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland,*​​Welcoming the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons as a non-nuclear-weapon State,​​Taking into account the commitment of Ukraine to eliminate all nuclear weapons from its territory within a specified period of time,​​Noting the changes in the world-wide security situation, including the end of the Cold War, which have brought about conditions for deep reductions in nuclear forces.​​Confirm the following:​​1. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, *to respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.*​​2. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their obligation to *refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine*, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.​​3. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to *refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.*​​4. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a nonnuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used.​​5. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm, in the case of the Ukraine, their commitment not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclear-weapon State Party 2 to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a state in association or alliance with a nuclear weapon state.​​6. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland will consult in the event a situation arises which raises a question concerning these commitments.​​This Memorandum will become applicable upon signature.​​Signed in four copies having equal validity in the English, Russian and Ukrainian languages.​​The problem here is that the Budapest Agreement of 1994 is not legally binding on all signatories. It was at best sort of a "gentlemen's handshake". All signatories promised not to attack Ukraine, but then no one promised to come to Ukraine's aid should Ukraine come under attack. And this is how Putin done it.
> 
> But ultimately, legal document or not, Russia is now seen as aggressor despite what was promised to Ukraine. The Budapest Agreement of 1994 *WILL* be disseminated throughout and the consequences will be many *IMPLICIT* memberships in NATO. Ukraine trusted Russia despite the absence of any legal protection and gave up the best guarantor of independence -- nuclear weapons. And was betrayed by Russia.
> 
> Спасибо, Vladimir Putin, for securing the future expansion of NATO.








_Page from Stepanov-Mamaladze's notes from February 12, 1990, reflecting Baker's assurance to Shevardnadze during the Ottawa Open Skies conference: *"And if U[nited] G[ermany] stays in NATO, we should take care about non-expansion of its jurisdiction to the east." *_


This assurance was violated.

Furthermore even if you hold account your own post, political Interference to overthrow a pro Moscow governemnt in Kiev also comes under breach of sovereignty.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
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## lastofthepatriots

jamahir said:


> All I see is a blank with a caption saying "Russian soldier killed" [ Edit : It loaded. Sad. ]. So you are now supporting NATO conspiracy doers and their puppet regimes ? Why don't you ask your half-Ukranian cousin to tell the president to just stop fighting the Russians ? Is that so hard ?



I support any country that faces an invasion from a bully. If my cousin was russian you think I would be supporting them?

I support Ukraine because our ISI worked very hard in helping them and many other countries in gaining independence. Ukraine has always provided military hardware to Pakistan in our time of need. Pakistanis don’t forget such gestures.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RescueRanger

Bilal. said:


> Which gun is that?


AS VAL - Suppressed Assault rifle.

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## casual

gambit said:


> More like you do not read. So yes, you won via ignorance.


nice, resorting to personal attacks to cover for your lack of comprehension skills.


----------



## z9-ec




----------



## ZeEa5KPul

My dude making the Westoids seethe:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497171472615280641

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## lastofthepatriots

Bilal. said:


> Which gun is that?


As val, I think.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The Eagle

Maarkhoor said:


> Bro please stop sharing fake news.



Correct location flag please.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## RescueRanger

z9-ec said:


>


Use adsbexchange.com it has better options for tracking military aircraft .


----------



## Mentee

Kiev seeksseeks talks, Russia agrees with conditions attached , media sources


----------



## RescueRanger

European skies right now vs Ukrainian airspace.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## gambit

Patriot forever said:


> View attachment 818506
> 
> _Page from Stepanov-Mamaladze's notes from February 12, 1990, reflecting Baker's assurance to Shevardnadze during the Ottawa Open Skies conference: *"And if U[nited] G[ermany] stays in NATO, we should take care about non-expansion of its jurisdiction to the east." *_
> 
> 
> This assurance was violated.
> 
> Furthermore even if you hold account your own post, political Interference to overthrow a pro Moscow governemnt in Kiev also comes under breach of sovereignty.


Even if the Budapest Agreement of 1994 was not legal, that 'assurance' you brought on is even less assured for anyone, let alone Ukraine, to use. Remember, Ukraine gave up nuclear weapons. The critical factor in 1994 was Russia because the US/UK was not owner of those nuclear weapons. If Russia had any way to retrieve those nuclear missiles without resorting to diplomacy, Russia would have done it. Faster and more secured. Russia resorted to diplomacy with the US/UK because Russia was too weak from the breakup.

What you got was a notebook scribbling from an individual. The Budapest Agreement of 1994 was at least a more formal doc attested by countries.


----------



## RescueRanger

German, British and American military aircraft in the region including *Reach 805*, the same callsign C17 that made the last flight out of Kabul in August 2021.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## lastofthepatriots

ZeEa5KPul said:


> My dude making the Westoids seethe:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497171472615280641



They are firing on civvies in Mariupol. Ukrainian soldiers that are holding the city are saying Russians are not advancing and only bombarding with rockets.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497176351111008265


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497176619689156610

Reactions: Like Like:
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## gambit

casual said:


> nice, resorting to personal attacks to cover for your lack of comprehension skills.


I gave a link to a doc, did I not? So if you missed or ignored, who has the true 'lack of comprehension' here?


----------



## jamahir

@lastofthepatriots, two of my posts to you were deleted and I warned.


----------



## Daniel808

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497176351111008265



Chechens are a an ethnic/tribal group that are known for being extremely fierce fighters, you don't want them in a battlefield

Poor those Ukies 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497166225331433472

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## Bilal.

jamahir said:


> @lastofthepatriots, two of my posts to you were deleted and I warned.


Don’t worry. It’s to remove graphic image. Mine was removed too.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## lastofthepatriots

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497176619689156610



Ukrainio ne pura intezam kiya he russi istagbal ke liye.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hack-Hook

kahu said:


> Lesson for Pakistan
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496730654699966468


What about other republics?


----------



## AsianLion



Reactions: Like Like:
5 | Haha Haha:
10 | Sad Sad:
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## Dai Toruko

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497163500858322948


*
FAKE NEWS!

Foreign Minister Çavuşoğlu: Turkey can stop the passage of warships through the Straits*








Çavuşoğlu: Boğazlar’dan savaş gemilerinin geçişini Türkiye durdurabilir


Dışişleri Bakanı Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu, ' Ukrayna’nın Ankara Büyükelçisi’nin, Boğazlar’ın Rus savaş gemilerine kapatılması talebi var. Montrö’ye göre mümkün mü?'




www.birgun.net





*Çavuşoğlu said, "Ukraine has made an official request. The articles of the Montreux Treaty are very clear. Until now, Turkey has implemented the Montreux Treaty every time without hesitation. In other words, in a war where Turkey is not a party, there are measures that can be taken against the countries that are party to the war. Turkey can stop the passage of warships through the Straits".*


----------



## AViet

S10 said:


> It's called international trade, something you know very little about these days.
> 
> View attachment 818437



Please ignore him. All South Vietnamese, who support the dead South Vietnamese puppet government now residing in California, are now gone crazy. They were humiliated by North Vietnamese army in 1975, being treated as second-class citizens in the US with the hope to return to Vietnam one day as victors. But now even their daddy (the US) is collapsing and going to surrender to another communist country, aka China.

On 29 Feb 2022, their leader Dao Minh Quan (who claims to be the oversea president of Vietnam, but listed by Vietnamese government as a terrorist) will enthrone in the US to become the emperor of Vietnam. How desperate they have become.

They have lost their mind, not worth to discuss with.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

*But we had a guarantee for Defensive Pact??*

1970's, we did to Pakistan then we gave them wheat instead of F16, in 90's

1980's, we were buddies with Iraq vs Iran then we invaded em

1999's we were buddies with Ukraine, look where they are now!! Almost in NATO

1979-2021 We were in /out of Afghanistan they thought we were their buddies too in 80's

2012-2015
Some where in middle we sponsored a military coup against Turkey 
They thought they were our buddies too , we did the F-35 snub with them

2010-2020 Pakistan , remember Pakistan we did not release the Super Cobra to them again

2010's we were buddies with India but they are a Baniyas knew about our tricks
instead Indians became CEO of our companies

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497174648072531969

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497172072442773507

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497178570547994645

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## RescueRanger

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497177441990844418


Whilst I completely agree with the fact that people are buying the propaganda peddled by Russia about President Zelensky being a racist, Nat Jef Jeff or Farhan Jaffary (which is his real name) cannot claim the moral highroad ever.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Patriot forever

gambit said:


> Even if the Budapest Agreement of 1994 was not legal, that 'assurance' you brought on is even less assured for anyone, let alone Ukraine, to use. Remember, Ukraine gave up nuclear weapons. The critical factor in 1994 was Russia because the US/UK was not owner of those nuclear weapons. If Russia had any way to retrieve those nuclear missiles without resorting to diplomacy, Russia would have done it. Faster and more secured. Russia resorted to diplomacy with the US/UK because Russia was too weak from the breakup.
> 
> What you got was a notebook scribbling from an individual. The Budapest Agreement of 1994 was at least a more formal doc attested by countries.


Those are not scribbling but the actual words spoken during negotiations. ( The actual writing of the conversation in real time, the guy with the notepad in every meeting writing down as words are spoken) not the made up articles churned up by western media with the intent to erase the history to justify western actions.

The calculus and every other treaty changed when NATO expanded against the legitimate rationale of the Russians ( who believed that NATO expansion is already agreed upon).

Again you are the professional here. Being an expert you know and can enlighten others as well the severe compromise from a Russian defense point of view regarding crimea and in general Ukraine. If NATO expands into Ukraine it directly threatens Russian heartland not to mention the Russian navy.

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## Beast

Wood said:


> Yes, of course US will put pressure on India. The US also put pressure on India not to buy S 400. But from Indian perspective, China is the enemy and Russia is not. The Ukrainian ambassador in India has already made a statement that Ukraine is not happy with India's position in this matter.
> 
> India will not confront Russia for the same reason that US will not take a military action against Russia. Both parties will do so to not give an advantage to China


Absolutely wrong before that for sake of anti-China stance, the western hesitate about putting more pressure on India not to buy S400 but with invasion of Ukraine by Russia.

Western definitely want to save face since they cannot use military method on Russia. Western are now united to sanction against Russia. Any countries not joining western will be enemies of western. India is not excluded. India continue to trade with Russia including military deal is giving Russia much needed financial which the western will not tolerate. Western know India is not in position to withstand western sanction as they do not have the financial power like China. 

Forcing India into western camp will be a triumph for NATO. India interest is always the lowest priority for western world.


----------



## Trango Towers

BBC new now.

Russin forces are 5 miles from Ukrainian Parliament in Kiev. No resistance??? 

Where is teh Ukrainian forces?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RescueRanger

lastofthepatriots said:


> Ukrainio ne pura intezam kiya he russi istagbal ke liye.
> 
> View attachment 818511


Good old Molotov.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497175037979287553

Reactions: Sad Sad:
2


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## Patriot forever

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497157366986518532
Ukraine should save itself instead of becoming a goat for West. ( Let Germany take the lead not the dictation from the US and UK).

It is time that Europe itself emerges as a power center rather than the lackey. 

Ukraine war only serves US and UK ( the ones crying wolf wolf and herd the European sheeps deep into its influence) not Europe.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496889062677880841

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
7


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## Messerschmitt

RescueRanger said:


> Whilst I completely agree with the fact that people are buying the propaganda peddled by Russia about President Zelensky being a racist, Nat Jef Jeff or Farhan Jaffary (which is his real name) cannot claim the moral highroad ever.
> 
> View attachment 818513
> 
> View attachment 818514


Sure, I am aware of that. I shared the Tweet for its content not the author.


----------



## khail007

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496964905043468300
> 
> The Russians are trying to avoid urban warfare



IMO not avoidance but a thoughtful move on the part of the Russians, this will avoid unnecessary hurdles of advances towards targets and mainly civilian casualties.


----------



## gambit

Patriot forever said:


> Those are not scribbling but the actual words spoken during negotiations. ( The actual copy of the conversation in real time) not the made up articles churned up by western media with the intent to erase the history to justify western actions.
> 
> The calculus and every other treaty changed when NATO expanded against the legitimate rationale of the Russians ( who believed that NATO expansion is already agreed upon).
> 
> Again you are the professional here. Being an expert you know and can enlighten others as well the severe compromise from a Russian defense point of view regarding crimea and in general Ukraine. If NATO expands into Ukraine it directly threatens Russian heartland not to mention the Russian navy.


If notes from conversations are good enough, then why do we bother with lawyers? When I was active duty, every time I had orders to deploy, even just for an exercise, we were admonished to update our wills. Why? Why can I not just talked to a priest or even to my CO on what I want? But instead, I had to write down what I want and had the doc notarized.

But now, we are talking about nuclear weapons. Ukraine gave up nuclear weapons on the *RUSSIA* assurance that Ukraine will not be attacked.

Putin can have any calculus he want. It will be all for naught now that the Budapest Agreement of 1994 is re-released for all to see of Russia's treachery. Спасибо, Vladimir Putin, for securing the future expansion of NATO.

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## Maarkhoor

The Eagle said:


> Correct location flag please.


Bro Can you P.M me?


----------



## Beast

Trango Towers said:


> BBC new now.
> 
> Russin forces are 5 miles from Ukrainian Parliament in Kiev. No resistance???
> 
> Where is teh Ukrainian forces?


Looks like battle of Berlin.. Hilter , Opps , Zelenskyy is hiding in his bunker ,dreaming about his Four Reich..

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## RescueRanger

How analysts expect this to play out:





Source: Michael Kofman.

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## Trench Broom

F1 cancels Russian Grand Prix.

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## Man of steel23

Daniel808 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497174648072531969
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497172072442773507
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497178570547994645



Ukraines chances is zero now.. Running into these heavily russian armed chechens is a tall order...

They never quit or surrender something Russia know and is using to their advantage it is the military ethics in chechen culture if you are entrusted with a job you simply fight to the death and never break your trust or covanant

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## RescueRanger

*Based on on Vessel Finder it would appear that the Russians have already established an effective naval blockade:*

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## Oruc

Intel gathering.


----------



## Nevsky

Daniel808 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497174648072531969
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497172072442773507
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497178570547994645


Theres information that they are supposed to go and fight for Mariupol, which is probably one of the most militarized cities in Ukraine at the moment.

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## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> How did Ukraine reneged? But the Russian *WRITTEN* promise not to attack Ukraine predated the Minsk agreement.
> 
> 
> If you have that paper, bring it.


Budapest memorandum is well known and you don't need to have the paper with you to know what is it and by the way in 2013 you yourself stated its not binding and violated it by sanctioning Blarus




__





2013 Press Releases | Embassy of the United States Minsk Belarus







web.archive.org


----------



## Man of steel23

Why Europe should take Russia very very serious now? They are first of all little bit crazy and you can even see the way they attacked they are nuts and I mean it from tactical point of view..

And second of all I swear to god as someone who is familiar with western Europe the Russians could rollover the entirety of west Europe without facing much resistance.. I also believe this will give them the boost and self-belief that they can rollover west Europe in an all-out nuclear conflict..

What makes them also superior to the Europeans is they still have their ground conventional forces heavy approch which western Europe lacks and if push came to shove I don't see how they could be stopped in western europe and western Europe is basically a sitting duck if Russia makes a move on them


----------



## thetutle

gambit said:


> Finland is now seriously considering NATO membership. Спасибо Russia.



A lot of Finnish people are very dismissive of America and think they're pretty clever. They figure they have some historic agreement with Russia and they'll never be attacked again. well, if they learn a lesson the easy way, good for them.


----------



## Wood

Beast said:


> Absolutely wrong before that for sake of anti-China stance, the western hesitate about putting more pressure on India not to buy S400 but with invasion of Ukraine by Russia.
> 
> Western definitely want to save face since they cannot use military method on Russia. Western are now united to sanction against Russia. Any countries not joining western will be enemies of western. India is not excluded. India continue to trade with Russia including military deal is giving Russia much needed financial which the western will not tolerate. Western know India is not in position to withstand western sanction as they do not have the financial power like China.
> 
> Forcing India into western camp will be a triumph for NATO. India interest is always the lowest priority for western world.


China is enemy number 1 for the western countries. As long as India also thinks of China as the primary enemy, the western interests are aligned with Indian interests for the most part.


----------



## khail007

FairAndUnbiased said:


> It took weeks to reach Baghdad during the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Ukraine is far more powerful than Iraq so Russian progress is incredibly rapid.



Well observed, one has to keep in mind that at the time almost the whole world including NATO was part of that invasion of Iraq, Here Russian deserved the credit.


----------



## Daniel808

Nevsky said:


> Theres information that they are supposed to go and fight for Mariupol, which is probably one of the most militarized cities in Ukraine at the moment.



Poor those Nazis wanabee in Azov batallion

Chechen would slaughter those facist

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## casual

gambit said:


> I gave a link to a doc, did I not? So if you missed or ignored, who has the true 'lack of comprehension' here?


and yet you fail to comprehend basic contract rule that more recent agreement take precedence over earlier ones.

since you wanted a link, here's the Minsk agreement




__





The Minsk-2 agreement







www.chathamhouse.org




text of the agreement is in the citations.

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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496995494778007555

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## lastofthepatriots

Nevsky said:


> Theres information that they are supposed to go and fight for Mariupol, which is probably one of the most militarized cities in Ukraine at the moment.



Once some of them die, they will go home like in 2015. It’s not their fight.


----------



## Patriot forever

gambit said:


> If notes from conversations are good enough, then why do we bother with lawyers? When I was active duty, every time I had orders to deploy, even just for an exercise, we were admonished to update our wills. Why? Why can I not just talked to a priest or even to my CO on what I want? But instead, I had to write down what I want and had the doc notarized.
> 
> But now, we are talking about nuclear weapons. Ukraine gave up nuclear weapons on the *RUSSIA* assurance that Ukraine will not be attacked.
> 
> Putin can have any calculus he want. It will be all for naught now that the Budapest Agreement of 1994 is re-released for all to see of Russia's treachery. Спасибо, Vladimir Putin, for securing the future expansion of NATO.



If I summarize your post it comes down to, *MIGHT IS RIGHT*. This only leads to wars and destabilisation not peace.

We are living in a dangerous and distrustful world if people words don't have meanings.

The accord was breached when political Interference was done by West which led to 2014 and to the events happening today.

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## RescueRanger

*NATO09 - Boeing E-3 Sentry AWACS took off from Turkey and headed towards the black sea. *


----------



## khail007

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Why no SWIFT ban sanction will be imposed on Russia? Because Russia will declare WW3 if Swift ban is imposed on them.. It sounds like a joke but they can't impose that one because Russia will translate that into a real attack



Germany and Italy already discarded that idea.


----------



## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> Not good enough. All we have is some verbiage about NATO. But I think I have delayed long enough.
> 
> When the Soviet Union broke up, the former satellites became owners of many Soviet military hardware. For Ukraine, that ownership involved nuclear weapons. The Budapest Agreement had Ukraine gave up all nuclear weapons. The US/UK helped Ukraine in the dismantling process. The nuclear fissile materials returned to Russia. In return, all parties agreed to respect Ukraine's independence which implied future independent foreign policies devoid of outside pressure. Russia, eager to get all the nuclear fissile materials, agreed.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.pircenter.org/media/content/files/12/13943175580.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> *Budapest, 5 December 1994*​​*The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland,*​​Welcoming the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons as a non-nuclear-weapon State,​​Taking into account the commitment of Ukraine to eliminate all nuclear weapons from its territory within a specified period of time,​​Noting the changes in the world-wide security situation, including the end of the Cold War, which have brought about conditions for deep reductions in nuclear forces.​​Confirm the following:​​1. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, *to respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.*​​2. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their obligation to *refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine*, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.​​3. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to *refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.*​​4. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a nonnuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used.​​5. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm, in the case of the Ukraine, their commitment not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclear-weapon State Party 2 to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a state in association or alliance with a nuclear weapon state.​​6. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland will consult in the event a situation arises which raises a question concerning these commitments.​​This Memorandum will become applicable upon signature.​​Signed in four copies having equal validity in the English, Russian and Ukrainian languages.​​The problem here is that the Budapest Agreement of 1994 is not legally binding on all signatories. It was at best sort of a "gentlemen's handshake". All signatories promised not to attack Ukraine, but then no one promised to come to Ukraine's aid should Ukraine come under attack. And this is how Putin done it.
> 
> But ultimately, legal document or not, Russia is now seen as aggressor despite what was promised to Ukraine. The Budapest Agreement of 1994 *WILL* be disseminated throughout and the consequences will be many *IMPLICIT* memberships in NATO. Ukraine trusted Russia despite the absence of any legal protection and gave up the best guarantor of independence -- nuclear weapons. And was betrayed by Russia.
> 
> Спасибо, Vladimir Putin, for securing the future expansion of NATO.


well USA is the first violator when they sanctioned Blarus
by the way didn't Ukraine started the war by shelling two republic of Luhansk and Donetsk

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## Daniel808

lastofthepatriots said:


> Once some of them die, they will go home like in 2015. It’s not their fight.



This is an army that prefer to die in battlefield instead going home


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497178570547994645
British NLAW captured by LPR Forces


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497185527921090561

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497187540822106120


----------



## Enigma SIG

Hack-Hook said:


> Budapest memorandum is well known and you don't need to have the paper with you to know what is it and by the way in 2013 you yourself stated its not binding and violated it by sanctioning Blarus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2013 Press Releases | Embassy of the United States Minsk Belarus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> web.archive.org







This man right here has more IQ than all of the US government combined.

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## Trench Broom

Man of steel23 said:


> Why Europe should take Russia very very serious now? They are first of all little bit crazy and you can even see the way they attacked they are nuts and I mean it from tactical point of view..
> 
> And second of all I swear to god as someone who is familiar with western Europe the Russians could rollover the entirety of west Europe without facing much resistance.. I also believe this will give them the boost and self-belief that they can rollover west Europe in an all-out nuclear conflict..
> 
> What makes them also superior to the Europeans is they still have their ground conventional forces heavy approch which western Europe lacks and if push came to shove I don't see how they could be stopped in western europe and western Europe is basically a sitting duck if Russia makes a move on them


Europe, apart from the UK, are a pathetic entity and always have been. They were pathetic against Hitler too.
They can't even agree on sanctions and have all made their countries dependent on Russian fuel because some pink haired leftists on twitter demand they go "green". So they close down their own supplies, build some windmills and then import the fuel from Russia which gives the pretence that they're being 'environmental'. The USA and the Europeans are too concerned with diversity and bathrooms for trannies, while the world burns.

Europe deserves to be run over.

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## lastofthepatriots

Daniel808 said:


> This is an army that prefer to die in battlefield instead going home
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497178570547994645
> British NLAW captured by LPR Forces
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497185527921090561
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497187540822106120



Apologize to Putin..

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## Daniel808

Ukraine Navy hit Moldovan commercial vessel.

WTF is wrong with them  They are sooooooo professional

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497187875657555972


----------



## khail007

Foinikas said:


> Man how did the Russians destroy the Ukrainian Air Defence so fast and so easily?



IMO, it is very evident as one didn't observe the significant losses that Ukraine could inflict on Russian invading forces in reference to aerial targets. Only very few were reported and many videos were fake. One could see a Ka-52 that also crash-landed not completely disintegrated.


----------



## RescueRanger

A hive of activity over the UK today with Eurofighters, HWAKS and USAF F15's seen flying over the United Kingdom and across the English Channel.


----------



## Man of steel23

Trench Broom said:


> Europe, apart from the UK, are a pathetic entity and always have been. They were pathetic against Hitler too.
> They can't even agree on sanctions and have all made their countries dependent on Russian fuel because some pink haired leftists on twitter demand they go "green". So they close down their own supplies, build some windmills and then import the fuel from Russia which gives the pretence that they're being 'environmental'. The USA and the Europeans are too concerned with diversity and bathrooms for trannies, while the world burns.
> 
> Europe deserves to be run over.



Unfortunately they are the soft part of an animal the underbelly..

If you count NATO only UK and Turkey are formidble while the rest are beyond garbage in Europe and Ukraine is much much more resilient country then majority..

For heaven sake it was af-pak that liberated half of Europe all the way to half of Germany just here in 1990s it was not even far decent past.. They didn't dare to fire one shoot at the Russians

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## Enigma SIG

khail007 said:


> Germany and Italy already discarded that idea.

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## Daniel808

Enigma SIG said:


> View attachment 818523

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## Trench Broom

Ukrainian air defences are mostly old Soviet junk. As far as I'm aware they don't have any western missile defence systems.


----------



## thetutle

Man of steel23 said:


> And second of all I swear to god as someone who is familiar with western Europe the Russians could rollover the entirety of west Europe without facing much resistance.. I also believe this will give them the boost and self-belief that they can rollover west Europe in an all-out nuclear conflict..
> 
> What makes them also superior to the Europeans is they still have their ground conventional forced heavy approch which western Europe lacks and if push came to shove I don't see how they could be stopped in western europe and western Europe is basically a sitting duck if Russia makes a move one them



This is a good point, I always thought not much could stop Russia until they got to normandy. If they could roll over NAZI Germany which itself was able to conquer Europe, they what stopping them taking Belgium and France. 

The only thing that will stop them is the US forces in Europe and 11 aircraft carries that would be there in a week. And which BTW have many time more interceptors than the entire Russian Airforce. 

And of course the reason Americans made the apache is to deal with Russian armoured columns if they ever cross the iron curtain. 

Bet besides the Americans there isn't anyone else really. Don't forget Germany is currently occupied by the US and has very limited sovereignty. They for example aren't allowed to build any weapons or weapons systems they want. their missiles are limited to 300km range etc. 

If Germany ever becomes a free county, it might be different.


----------



## kingQamaR

By the look of his soldiers I don't understand why Pukin is threatening NATO . None of them look like a proper fighting force


----------



## QWECXZ

Man of steel23 said:


> Unfortunately they are the soft part of an animal the underbelly..
> 
> If you count NATO only UK and Turkey are formidble while the rest are beyond garbage in Europe and Ukraine is much much more resilient country then majority..
> 
> For heaven sake it was af-pak that liberated half of Europe all the way to half of Germany just here in 1990s it was not even far decent past.. They didn't dare to fire one shoot at the Russians


+ France. NATO at this point is US, UK, France and Turkey. The rest are laughable.

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## siegecrossbow

AViet said:


> Please ignore him. All South Vietnamese, who support the dead South Vietnamese puppet government now residing in California, are now gone crazy. They were humiliated by North Vietnamese army in 1975, being treated as second-class citizens in the US with the hope to return to Vietnam one day as victors. But now even their daddy (the US) is collapsing and going to surrender to another communist country, aka China.
> 
> On 29 Feb 2022, their leader Dao Minh Quan (who claims to be the oversea president of Vietnam, but listed by Vietnamese government as a terrorist) will enthrone in the US to become *the emperor of Vietnam*. How desperate they have become.
> 
> They have lost their mind, not worth to discuss with.



Wut??? You have a source for this?


----------



## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497189653275082752

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## kingQamaR

Conscripts


----------



## Daniel808

😂 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496839773465755649

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## Man of steel23

QWECXZ said:


> + France. NATO at this point is US, UK, France and Turkey. The rest are laughable.



I agree with your list except France they are the worst..

Did you know Macron was willing to surrender east-europe to Russia? Few weeks ago he suggested them pulling out of the nato eastern flank.. Lmao I couldn't believe when I heard that


----------



## khail007

Nevsky said:


> Zelenskiy just said that he is ready to talk about Ukraine neutral staus with the RF. He said he asked all NATO leaders if they will take Ukrain in NATO, but they are too scared of the RF, thats what he said. Lets pray that this madness will come to an end soon.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496981951521173505
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496982558873374722



Too late the hero, he should have understood it before the invasion as it was the main condition from Russia. IMO, Mr. Zelensky was too confident of USA/NATO interference and support - See, being overconfident and dependent results in what?
LESSON TO LEARN: Be good with your neighbors and don't put confidence in scoundrels sitting thousands of miles away ... !

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## gambit

Patriot forever said:


> If I summarize your post it comes down to, *MIGHT IS RIGHT*. This only leads to wars and destabilisation not peace.
> 
> We are living in a dangerous and distrustful world if people words don't have meanings.
> 
> The accord was breached when political Interference was done by West which led to 2014 and to the events happening today.


Russia made a *WRITTEN* promise not to attack Ukraine. It does not have legal bindings, but from 1994 to now, the current Ukrainian government inherited that promise and when you compare the security from nuclear weapons to a document that have no legal authority, what Ukraine did was shocking. Nuclear weapons security is an assurance that no one want to put to test.

After the dissolution of the Soviet Union, Ukraine held about one third of the Soviet nuclear arsenal, the third largest in the world at the time, as well as significant means of its design and production.[2] 130 UR-100N intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM) with six warheads each, 46 RT-23 Molodets ICBMs with ten warheads apiece, as well as 33 heavy bombers, *totaling approximately 1,700 warheads remained on Ukrainian territory.*[3] Formally, these weapons were controlled by the Commonwealth of Independent States.[4] In 1994 Ukraine agreed to destroy the weapons, and to join the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT).​​Imagine the enormity of what Ukraine did. They gave up 1,700 nuclear warheads -- *PERMANENTLY* -- just because Russia made a *NON-LEGAL* promise not to attack. Do you really think they care *TODAY* about who promised yrs ago that NATO would not expand east in a non-legal notebook?

Would your Pakistan willing to give up just 10, not 1700, nuclear warheads if India make a non-legal promise not to attack?


----------



## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496673988034142213

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## khail007

Daniel808 said:


> Ukraine Navy hit Moldovan commercial vessel.
> 
> WTF is wrong with them  They are sooooooo professional
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497187875657555972
> View attachment 818521



In past, Ukrainian professionalism has some doubts on the incident of shot down of Malaysian Airliner over Ukrainian air space.

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## lastofthepatriots

Daniel808 said:


> Ukraine Navy hit Moldovan commercial vessel.
> 
> WTF is wrong with them  They are sooooooo professional
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497187875657555972
> View attachment 818521


Romainian ship and it was hit by Russians.

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## gambit

thetutle said:


> If Germany ever becomes a free county, it might be different.


Germany is a free country. They are free enough to become dependent on Russia for energy.

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## RescueRanger

*
This aircraft claimed to be a Russian aircraft downed last night in the centre of Kiev would upon closer examination appear to be an Ukranian Su 27*

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## Enigma SIG

khail007 said:


> Too late the hero, he should have understood it before the invasion as it was the main condition from Russia. IMO, Mr. Zelensky was too confident of USA/NATO interference and support - See, being overconfident and dependent results in what?
> LESSON TO LEARN: Be good with your neighbors and don't put confidence in scoundrels sitting thousands of miles away ... !




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497193349102538756
This is funny. US and NATO leaving Ukraine in the lurch.

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## Foinikas

Ok I made this one myself. 

Tell me if it's getting annoying,ok?

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## Enigma SIG

RescueRanger said:


> *This aircraft claimed to be a Russian aircraft downed last night in the centre of Kiev would upon closer examination appear to be an Ukranian Su 27*
> View attachment 818525
> 
> 
> View attachment 818526
> 
> View attachment 818527


So much for the "Ghost of Kyiv". With both Ukraine and Russia flying the same aircraft you can't really identify them in videos unless it's 4K and you have a clear shot at their insignias.

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## gambit

Enigma SIG said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497193349102538756
> This is funny. US and NATO leaving Ukraine in the lurch.


Why is it funny? Ukraine is not NATO member. And have you not been following that it was Russia who made a *WRITTEN* promise back in 1994 not to attack Ukraine?


----------



## Enigma SIG

Foinikas said:


> Ok I made this one myself.
> 
> Tell me if it's getting annoying,ok?
> 
> View attachment 818528



BRAINDEADWOOD

IM ROFLing at work and everyone is

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## jamahir

Daniel808 said:


> View attachment 818524



There shouldn't be only Muslim-majority regions in that list. Non-Muslim-majority Venezuela is being bullied too by NATO. It too doesn't have the world's attention now.


----------



## RescueRanger

Reports that a Russian tank column is moving northwards from Mariopol towards Zaporizhzhia
Source: Ali Adnan - TRT News Live.


----------



## Daniel808

lastofthepatriots said:


> Romainian ship and it was hit by Russians.



It’s Moldavian ship and it was hit by Ukraine.

If that Romanian ship, NATO would be barking at this moment.

The ship is a chemical tanker named MV Millennial Spirit. You can check by yourself instead reading Ukraines propaganda tweet.


The crew itself are Russian Federation Citizens

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## RescueRanger

RescueRanger said:


> Reports that a Russian tank column is moving northwards from Mariopol towards Zaporizhzhia
> Source: Ali Adnan - TRT News Live.
> 
> View attachment 818530


*Important to mention here that once the Russians make it to Zaporizhzhia and Dnipro the east of Ukraine is essentially cut off.*

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## obj 705A

gambit said:


> And have you not been following that it was Russia who made a *WRITTEN* promise back in 1994 not to attack Ukraine?


And then in 2014 what happened? A US orchestrated coup d'etat.
Regime change happened in which a neutral government was replaced with a heavily anti Russia leadership hell-bent on joining NATO, all promises are dead after the regime change.

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## Hack-Hook

Daniel808 said:


> Poor those Nazis wanabee in Azov batallion
> 
> Chechen would slaughter those facist
> 
> View attachment 818519


where I saw , NATO banner previously , yes it was Georgian president when he was peeing himself .
what's with these people and that banner


----------



## Dalit

Enigma SIG said:


> View attachment 818523



Man, what a laughing stock.


----------



## AsianLion



Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Paul2

gambit said:


> Germany is a free country. They are free enough to become dependent on Russia for energy.



You put that excellently


----------



## Daniel808

RescueRanger said:


> *This aircraft claimed to be a Russian aircraft downed last night in the centre of Kiev would upon closer examination appear to be an Ukranian Su 27*
> View attachment 818525
> 
> 
> View attachment 818526
> 
> View attachment 818527



A few hours ago, those Ukraine propagandist still insist that a Russian Su-27.

Even it’s clear as fvck, that’s an Ukraine one

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## Dalit

AsianLion said:


>



It is the truth. So much muscle flexing. So much noise. In the end, Ukraine is all alone and abandoned. Just like the Kurds. Just like the Afghans. Just like the Iraqis. Anyone who chooses US side always stands alone. It is an eye opener.

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## Rana4pak

gambit said:


> Russia made a *WRITTEN* promise not to attack Ukraine. It does not have legal bindings, but from 1994 to now, the current Ukrainian government inherited that promise and when you compare the security from nuclear weapons to a document that have no legal authority, what Ukraine did was shocking. Nuclear weapons security is an assurance that no one want to put to test.
> 
> After the dissolution of the Soviet Union, Ukraine held about one third of the Soviet nuclear arsenal, the third largest in the world at the time, as well as significant means of its design and production.[2] 130 UR-100N intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM) with six warheads each, 46 RT-23 Molodets ICBMs with ten warheads apiece, as well as 33 heavy bombers, *totaling approximately 1,700 warheads remained on Ukrainian territory.*[3] Formally, these weapons were controlled by the Commonwealth of Independent States.[4] In 1994 Ukraine agreed to destroy the weapons, and to join the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT).​​Imagine the enormity of what Ukraine did. They gave up 1,700 nuclear warheads -- *PERMANENTLY* -- just because Russia made a *NON-LEGAL* promise not to attack. Do you really think they care *TODAY* about who promised yrs ago that NATO would not expand east in a non-legal notebook?
> 
> Would your Pakistan willing to give up just 10, not 1700, nuclear warheads if India make a non-legal promise not to attack?

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## RescueRanger

Dalit said:


> It is the truth. So much muscle flexing. So much noise. In the end, Ukraine is all alone and abandoned. Just like the Kurds. Just like the Afghans. Just like the Iraqis. Anyone who chooses US side always stands alone. It is an eye opener.


When all the bluster comes tumbling down:

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## QWECXZ

Man of steel23 said:


> I agree with your list except France they are the worst..
> 
> Did you know Macron was willing to surrender east-europe to Russia? Few weeks ago he suggested them pulling out of the nato eastern flank.. Lmao I couldn't believe when I heard that


Throwing Ukraine under the bus is different from not being capable to defend one's self. France is one of the permanent members of the UNSC armed with nuclear triad and pretty decent military equipment with a long established military industry and one of the world's leading aerospace industries. France is also one of the leading countries in nuclear enrichment and reprocessing. Macron has been talking about expanding French military for several years, ever since Trump talked about US abandoning NATO, and unlike Germany, they do plan to ramp up their nuclear industry.

This is how I see it personally: US >> UK ~ France > Turkey

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## Patriot forever

gambit said:


> Russia made a *WRITTEN* promise not to attack Ukraine. It does not have legal bindings, but from 1994 to now, the current Ukrainian government inherited that promise and when you compare the security from nuclear weapons to a document that have no legal authority, what Ukraine did was shocking. Nuclear weapons security is an assurance that no one want to put to test.
> 
> After the dissolution of the Soviet Union, Ukraine held about one third of the Soviet nuclear arsenal, the third largest in the world at the time, as well as significant means of its design and production.[2] 130 UR-100N intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM) with six warheads each, 46 RT-23 Molodets ICBMs with ten warheads apiece, as well as 33 heavy bombers, *totaling approximately 1,700 warheads remained on Ukrainian territory.*[3] Formally, these weapons were controlled by the Commonwealth of Independent States.[4] In 1994 Ukraine agreed to destroy the weapons, and to join the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT).​​Imagine the enormity of what Ukraine did. They gave up 1,700 nuclear warheads -- *PERMANENTLY* -- just because Russia made a *NON-LEGAL* promise not to attack. Do you really think they care *TODAY* about who promised yrs ago that NATO would not expand east in a non-legal notebook?
> 
> Would your Pakistan willing to give up just 10, not 1700, nuclear warheads if India make a non-legal promise not to attack?


Let's keep aside political subconvential manoeuvres by the West that violated Ukrainian sovereignty in the first place that set off the cascade of events.

Bringing in NATO to Ukraine defeats the very purpose Russia agreed to not attack Ukraine.

Remove Ukrainian nukes and replace them with NATO offensive capability and nukes at the border with Russia. Does that sentence makes sense.

You are seeing everything in a literal sense removing the logic to give it self serving meaning.

*You need to understand the thought process and logic. 

If one forbids to enter his house you don't go through the window and lawyer up saying the arrangement only meant through the front door. *

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## khail007

Irfan Baloch said:


> what jet is that almost at the end?



Sir G, seems to be Su-25 Frogfoot (CAS). Refer below:









Su-25 (Su-28) Frogfoot Close-Support Aircraft


The Su-25 single-seat, close-support aircraft, known by the NATO reporting name Frogfoot, is manufactured by the Sukhoi Design Bureau Joint…




www.airforce-technology.com

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## Dalit

Rana4pak said:


> View attachment 818533



What is he holding? Yellowcake? Let me guess. Freshly produced from Saddam's palace?


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## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> Russia made a *WRITTEN* promise not to attack Ukraine. It does not have legal bindings, but from 1994 to now, the current Ukrainian government inherited that promise and when you compare the security from nuclear weapons to a document that have no legal authority, what Ukraine did was shocking. Nuclear weapons security is an assurance that no one want to put to test.
> 
> After the dissolution of the Soviet Union, Ukraine held about one third of the Soviet nuclear arsenal, the third largest in the world at the time, as well as significant means of its design and production.[2] 130 UR-100N intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM) with six warheads each, 46 RT-23 Molodets ICBMs with ten warheads apiece, as well as 33 heavy bombers, *totaling approximately 1,700 warheads remained on Ukrainian territory.*[3] Formally, these weapons were controlled by the Commonwealth of Independent States.[4] In 1994 Ukraine agreed to destroy the weapons, and to join the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT).​​Imagine the enormity of what Ukraine did. They gave up 1,700 nuclear warheads -- *PERMANENTLY* -- just because Russia made a *NON-LEGAL* promise not to attack. Do you really think they care *TODAY* about who promised yrs ago that NATO would not expand east in a non-legal notebook?
> 
> Would your Pakistan willing to give up just 10, not 1700, nuclear warheads if India make a non-legal promise not to attack?


and USA promised not to sanction Belarus on the same paper , what happened to it.
by the way Ukraine started by shelling Luhansk and Donetsk


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## RescueRanger

*Reuters: *Unconfirmed reports that the dome covering the Chernobyl reactor was damaged during shelling by Russia. This has been claimed by the Ukrainian government, it has not been independently verified. - TRT News Live.

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## Trench Broom

QWECXZ said:


> + France. NATO at this point is US, UK, France and Turkey. The rest are laughable.





Dalit said:


> It is the truth. So much muscle flexing. So much noise. In the end, Ukraine is all alone and abandoned. Just like the Kurds. Just like the Afghans. Just like the Iraqis. Anyone who chooses US side always stands alone. It is an eye opener.


America is proving to be the worst 'friend' ever. Give up your nukes, they said. We'll protect you, they said.

I wonder when all this is done if there is some legal way Ukraine can punish the countries that guaranteed its safety and then reneged?

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## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> Why is it funny? Ukraine is not NATO member. And have you not been following that it was Russia who made a *WRITTEN* promise back in 1994 not to attack Ukraine?


the same paper that you officially stated is nonbinding and violated one year earlier


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## Dalit

Trench Broom said:


> America is proving to be the worst 'friend' ever. Give up your nukes, they said. We'll protect you, they said.
> 
> I wonder when all this is done if there is some legal way Ukraine can punish the countries that guaranteed its safety and then reneged?



I am glad India is US partner.

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## Paul2

QWECXZ said:


> This is how I see it personally: US >> UK ~ France > Turkey



I would put it US > Turkey > France > UK

Depending on how real is American promise on their nukes in storage in Turkey, which is a big question


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## QWECXZ

Trench Broom said:


> America is proving to be the worst 'friend' ever. Give up your nukes, they said. We'll protect you, they said.
> 
> I wonder when all this is done if there is some legal way Ukraine can punish the countries that guaranteed its safety and then reneged?


There is no justice for countries that want to punish permanent UNSC members.

The whole system has been set up to ensure the interests of world powers only. If you open a case against a UNSC permanent member, even if you win the case at the UN's International Court of Justice, the country can refuse to accept the verdict and there's nothing you can do. Normally when a country refuses to accept the verdict of the International Court of Justice, the case will be referred to the UNSC council to take a decision. The decision can be as light as just a condemnation, or sanctions, or even a military coalition by UN members. However, because permanent members of the UNSC can veto any resolution at the UNSC, there's basically no way that you can do a damn thing about their refusal.

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## khail007

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496991566816329732
> 
> F-35 over Poland



Equipment/System on display doesn't fight or hit back.
Let it enjoy there the pollution-free and cool air - good for health.


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## QWECXZ

Paul2 said:


> I would put it US > Turkey > France > UK
> 
> Depending on how real is American promise on their nukes in storage in Turkey, which is a big question


Dude, Turkey doesn't have nukes. Holding NATO's nukes in your land doesn't mean that you have them. And Turkey definitely has no nuclear triad. And it will never become a permanent member of the UNSC either, not in our life times. So, your comparison makes absolutely no sense. Sorry.

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## Hack-Hook

Enigma SIG said:


> BRAINDEADWOOD
> 
> IM ROFLing at work and everyone is
> 
> View attachment 818529


So we are haradrims , from where you get it?

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## Daniel808

Zelensky fleeing?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497166426737569794

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## Man of steel23

QWECXZ said:


> Throwing Ukraine under the bus is different from not being capable to defend one's self. France is one of the permanent members of the UNSC armed with nuclear triad and pretty decent military equipment with a long established military industry and one of the world's leading aerospace industries. France is also one of the leading countries in nuclear enrichment and reprocessing. Macron has been talking about expanding French military for several years, ever since Trump talked about US abandoning NATO, and unlike Germany, they do plan to ramp up their nuclear industry.
> 
> This is how I see it personally: US >> UK ~ France > Turkey



France may have Nuclear weapons but that doesn't make them solid but it is disfunctional and on top of that it has vastly unpatrioting civilians as the ethnic french themselves are extremely unpatrioting and unwilling to take any risks in life example remember that 9 days surrender in despite having a top army in ww2 that says alot about France it is a sitting duck a couple of nuclear strikes and France surrenders without conditions.

Whereas in WW1 it took an unprecedented 10-15m armed men to push Turkey back into it's current boundaries from Arabia, Europe and other parts it occupied they fought like a honey badger and even that large coalition took to much casualites once they reached inside Turkey as the casualities on both sides raeched above 5m slayed in unprecedented scale you had Greeks, French, British, Australians, American volunteers, Arabs, Kurds, Georgians, Russians and East Europeans against the Turks. They stragetically lost WW1 but they couldn't be destroyed completely leading to the coalition settling for negotiation when they have pushed the turks passed Ismir... What makes Turkey a mountain to climb is the resolve.

The British have resolve and so do the Americans but not the french..

US-> Uk -> Turkey


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## _Nabil_



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## Enigma SIG

Hack-Hook said:


> So we are haradrims , from where you get it?


lol twitter gold


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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497187311171563525

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497199978611097611

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## SIPRA

Beast said:


> Absolutely wrong before that for sake of anti-China stance, the western hesitate about putting more pressure on India not to buy S400 but with invasion of Ukraine by Russia.
> 
> Western definitely want to save face since they cannot use military method on Russia. Western are now united to sanction against Russia. Any countries not joining western will be enemies of western. India is not excluded. India continue to trade with Russia including military deal is giving Russia much needed financial which the western will not tolerate. Western know India is not in position to withstand western sanction as they do not have the financial power like China.
> 
> Forcing India into western camp will be a triumph for NATO. India interest is always the lowest priority for western world.



India has unparalleled diplomatic abilities.

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## QWECXZ

Man of steel23 said:


> France may have Nuclear weapons but that doesn't make them solid but it is disfunctional and on top of that it has vastly unpatrioting civilians as the ethnic french themselves are extremely unpatrioting and unwilling to take any risks in life example remember that 9 days surrender despite having a top army in ww2 that says alot about France it is a sitting duck a couple of nuclear strikes and France surrenders without conditions.
> 
> Whereas in WW1 it took an unprecedented 10-15m armed men to push Turkey back into it's current boundaries from Arabia, Europe and other parts it occupied they fought like a honey badger and even that large coalition took to much casualites once they reached inside Turkey as the casualities on both sides raeched above 5m slayed in unprecedented scale you had Greeks, French, British, Australians, American volunteers, Arabs, Kurds, Georgians, Russians and East Europeans against the Turks. They stragetically lost WW2 but they couldn't be destroyed completely leading to the coalition settling for negotiation when they have pushed the turks passed Ismir... What makes Turkey a mountain to climb is the resolve.
> 
> The British have resolve and so do the Americans but not the french..
> 
> US-> Uk -> Turkey


France has megaton nukes that can wipe off entire population centers of Turkey in a matter of minutes and because it is a UNSC permanent member, France won't even be condemned at the UNSC. You are comparing apples and oranges. France successfully compressed uranium to 3.5 times of its original density in 1960s when it became a nuclear power. It has decades of experience with nuclear miniaturization. France can domestically produce every component it needs for its nuclear triad. They have been doing that since late 1960s. It has had several Fields medalists and Nobel laureates. And France historically leads the world in the number of battles won in modern history.

Even conventionally France is stronger than Turkey. France has been producing commercial airplanes and jet fighters for decades. Turkey cannot produce even UCAVs without foreign assistance. Turkey is a joke compared to any of the leading world powers. But this thread is not the right place for discussing this.

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## thetutle

gambit said:


> Germany is a free country. They are free enough to become dependent on Russia for energy.



Well they are as free as the US would be if the German parliament got to decide what weapons the US will have and what range its missiles will have and what type of weapons the US is allowed to make. And if Germany had bases all over America. 

Yeah, its not a free country, it is an occupied country. It doesn't mind the occupation because it doesn't really have a choice.

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## khail007

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians will ultimately prevail, but this is about making this illegal invasion as painful as possible for the Russians.



Mean same like, in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, VietNam, Korea, etc.

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## Paul2

QWECXZ said:


> Dude, Turkey doesn't have nukes. Holding NATO's nukes in your land doesn't mean that you have them. And Turkey definitely has no nuclear triad. And it will never become a permanent member of the UNSC either, not in our life times. So, your comparison makes absolutely no sense. Sorry.



Turkeus conventional military is bigger than UK + France put together, and they have own defence industry.

And yes, without 100% own nukes, they are not in ranks of superpowers. Major power yes, superpower no.


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## QWECXZ

Paul2 said:


> Turkeus conventional military is bigger than UK + France put together, and they have own defence industry.
> 
> And yes, without 100% own nukes, they are not in ranks of superpowers. Major power yes, superpower no.


That's because Turkey is expanding its military now. France and the UK do not need to expand their military power when there's no credible threat to them, they have NATO, and they have been major nuclear powers since over half a century ago that nobody dares to mess with them.

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## Man of steel23

QWECXZ said:


> France has megaton nukes that can wipe off entire population centers of Turkey in a matter of minutes and because it is a UNSC permanent member, France won't even be condemned at the UNSC. You are comparing apples and oranges. France successfully compressed uranium to 3.5 times of its original density in 1960s when it became a nuclear power. It has decades of experience with nuclear miniaturization. It has had several Fields medalists and Nobel laureates.
> 
> Even conventionally France is stronger than Turkey. France has been producing commercial airplanes and jet fighters for decades. Turkey cannot produce even UCAVs without foreign assistance. Turkey is a joke compared to any of the leading world powers. But this thread is not the right place for discussing this.



Turkey could get Nukes and make the playing field level but the fact that you think France is conventionally stronger is an absolute joke.. Also the fact that you think France could even conventionally head to head overcome the turks in a conventional engagement setting is simply ludicrous..

It is Turkey that was the hegemony in Europe and not France for a very good reason. The french can't compare to anywhere near the resolve of the turks that is just a simple fact

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## MH.Yang

AViet said:


> On 29 Feb 2022



…


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## QWECXZ

Man of steel23 said:


> Turkey could get Nukes and make the playing field level but the fact that you think France is conventionally stronger is an absolute joke..
> 
> It is Turkey that was the hegemony and not France for a very good reason. The french can't compared to anywhere near the resolve of the turks that is just a simple fact


The fact that you are comparing Turkey which is at best a regional power alongside Iran and Saudi Arabia with a permanent UNSC member like France is an absolute joke but then what else can I expect from a Pakistani fanboy of Erdogan? lol

Turkey is not even a global power to be compared to the likes of France. This is ridiculous.

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## khail007

kingQamaR said:


> The amount of Russian trolls on this forums are a joke. Pure manipulation. Russia and Iran on here want to really cause trouble they need to be encircled and stopped.



Brother, where there is a problem, do analysis, make the decision, and solve the root problems. Cosmetic changes won't do good in real life and the world.

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## RescueRanger

Daniel808 said:


> Zelensky fleeing?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497166426737569794


No he just missed a call from the Italian PM because he was relocating due to heavy fighting at the time. Can't say if he is fleeing or not, as nothing with a transponder can be seen on any of the trackers.

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## Man of steel23

QWECXZ said:


> The fact that you are comparing Turkey which is at best a regional power alongside Iran and Saudi Arabia with a permanent UNSC member like France is an absolute joke but then what else can I expect from a Pakistani fanboy of Erdogan? lol
> 
> Turkey is not even a global power to be compared to the likes of France. This is ridiculous.



Forget the Nukes? France is not a freaking god what is this UNSC shxt you are talking about? France is not formidble or a force to be reckoned? You sound like someone who has been living under a stone..

Iran is 10 times tougher to conquer then France in real life.. In truth both France and UK shouldn't be in UNSC but instead Pakistan and India who are geninuely stronger then both militarily that is a simple ground fact but just because they are angle-saxon they got admitted but militarily both are not formidble..

Do you really think France can defeat Pakisan in 1v1 or France can defeat India in 1v1? Or Britain vs India? Do you really think the British can overcome the Indians in this age and time? you gotta be kidding me bro.. This is not the 18-century.. India can make quick work of the British without getting out of the first gear.. There is scale to this


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## _Nabil_

Man of steel23 said:


> The french can't compare to anywhere near the resolve of the turks that is just a simple fact


Only agree on this part, the rest is just illusions, but with will and determination, only the sky is the limit


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## QWECXZ

Man of steel23 said:


> Forget the Nukes? France is not a freaking god what is this UNSC shxt you are talking about? France is not a formidble or a force to be reckoned? You sound like someone who has been living under a stone..
> 
> Iran is 10 times tougher to conquer then France in real life.. In truth both France and UK shouldn't be in UNSC but instead Pakistan and India who are geninuely stronger then both militarily that is a simply ground fact but just because they are angle-saxon they got admitted but militarily both are not formidble


The UNSC is the United Nations Security Council. Read chapter VII of the UN charter. Once the UNSC decides that a country is a threat to the world peace, the UN can pass resolutions to use punitive measures against that country, including military force. Article 42 of the Chapter VII of the UN charter talks about how all UN members are obliged to abide by the decisions of the UNSC. France is a permanent member of the UNSC which means that it can suggest resolutions to be discussed at the council and veto resolutions that it deems against her interests.

Iran is tougher to conquer than France in real life only if you forget about the nukes. However, in reality, if there's a credible threat to Paris, France can use its strategic nukes to wipe off entire population centers of the invading force. Although they would probably start using their tactical nukes long before any threat approaches Paris.

I agree with you about the resolve of the Turks though. But that's cultural. Yeah, Muslims are more determined to defend themselves than today's Europeans, but that should not make us blind to other facts as well.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497088221423063041

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497039931180519425

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497051595980230660

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497047202283331587


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## Man of steel23

QWECXZ said:


> The UNSC is the United Nations Security Council. Read chapter VII of the UN charter. Once the UNSC decides that a country is a threat to the world peace, the UN can pass resolutions to use punitive measures against that country, including military force. Article 42 of the Chapter VII of the UN charter talks about how all UN members are obliged to abide by the decisions of the UNSC. France is a permanent member of the UNSC which means that it can suggest resolutions to be discussed at the council and veto resolutions that it deems against her interests.
> 
> Iran is tougher to conquer than France in real life only if you forget about the nukes. However, in reality, if there's a credible threat to Paris, France can use its strategic nukes to wipe off entire population centers of the invading force. Although they would probably start using their tactical nukes long before any threat approaches Paris.
> 
> I agree with you about the resolve of the Turks though. But that's cultural. Yeah, Muslims are more determined to defend themselves than today's Europeans, but that should not make us blind to other facts as well.



I know what that is and I am saying there veto rights is bogus.. If by strength Pakistan and India should have veto not them.. I have never acknowledged UK and France veto rights and it is due to favouritism farce and lobbying

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## TheNoob

I don't know if this is a thread about the conflict or Turkey's nuclear capabilities.

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## Trench Broom

QWECXZ said:


> That's because Turkey is expanding its military now. France and the UK do not need to expand their military power when there's no credible threat to them, they have NATO, and they have been major nuclear powers since over half a century ago that nobody dares to mess with them.


Do you think NATO is still a thing? Albania is in NATO. Hypothetically if Russia attacked them, do you think NATO would go to war with Russia over an Albania, or North Macedonia etc?


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## CrazyZ

Joe Shearer said:


> This is today, here and now, naked aggression.
> It is also the Russian reaction to continued and sustained NATO pressure on Russia, by extending NATO boundaries eastward directly threatening Russia.
> Russia will seemingly create a buffer zone to the east, consisting of its Russian-language majority in the Donbas region, and additional strips of land to the west of this zone, to create a buffer to the west against land attack.
> Ukraine will be kept demilitarised by force, under threat of renewed attack.
> 
> 
> Putin has made it clear that he will react to these pressures violently.
> He has not made it clear how he hopes to keep Russia in working order under the massive weight of sanctions imminent.
> China may or may not provide the economic counter-balance against sanctions.
> It is possible that this presages the final downfall of the Soviet Union, as its most important successor component, Russia, heads for decline. Perhaps sharp decline.
> 
> 
> India is very awkwardly placed.
> Supporting Russia sets her against her supposed new allies of the west.
> Breaking ties with Russia
> guarantees vast streams of surplus arms and ammunition into Pakistan, and
> the abrupt end to supplies of spares for the enormous Indian inventory of Russian weapons.
> 
> She will also be left friendless against China.
> 
> 
> We are likely to see/hear/read verbiage in plenty, basically trying to say nothing against Russia and yet not annoying the USA.
> We are likely to see this response angering the US and Europe.
> This is also likely to chill relations with Korea and Japan.
> China and Pakistan are likely to look on with cynical amusement, as the Sanghis take India down with them.


I think the Russians waited for the PMIK visit before launching their offensive to guarantee a split in the American bloc (Quad+UK+Israel). Israel is mostly of Russian origin and will remain neutral. Japan and Australia are too far and weak to bother Russia in Ukraine. The PMIK visit was a clear message to New Delhi, back the USA in Ukraine and Russia will tilt its support in S. Asia. 

Puts India in a huge bind since it will look hypocritical to the west....India is only the Wests friend when it needs them for something.......India only opposes bad behavior if China or Pakistan carry it out (even this only on its own borders).

Pretty astute geopolitics from the Russians, IMO. Won't see anything like this from American foreign policy experts (they are mostly factional lobbyists not strategists).

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## thetutle

Man of steel23 said:


> Do you really think France can defeat Pakisan in 1v1 or France can defeat India in 1v1? Or Britain vs India? Do you really think the British can overcome the Indians in this age and time? you gotta be kidding me bro.. This is not the 18-century.. India can make quick work of the British without getting out of the first gear.. There is scale to this



I think the British would start a civil war in India and the Indians would pay them to rule them again.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497049877490147328


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## RescueRanger

*Please keep to the topic. *

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## QWECXZ

Trench Broom said:


> Do you think NATO is still a thing? Albania is in NATO. Hypothetically if Russia attacked them, do you think NATO would go to war with Russia over an Albania, or North Macedonia etc?


It's still a thing but not for defending countries that do no matter to world powers.
The US, the UK and France continue to be important global powers. Sure, the UK and France are nowhere close to the power of the US and even the US is a declining power now. And sure, Muslims are becoming more powerful day by day, and China will soon surpass the US economically and militarily. But as of today, the UK, the US and France can defend themselves against Russia and China.

Their hallucination of monopoly that they had after the fall of the Soviet Union in 1990s is fading away now fortunately, and we are entering a multipolar world again which is good for sovereign nations. But that doesn't mean that the UK or France are no longer global powers. They are global powers, only way less powerful than before.

The real change will happen when more countries with opposing views to the Westerners join the UNSC or the UN as we know it today gets dismantled.

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## NotSure

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497049877490147328


That was the ukr Su-27 downed by russian airdef. Already posted here. Kiev have gone to full retard fake news propaganda. Same story with the recaptured airport near kiev. Never happened and russia is now flying troops to the Gostomel airport.



RescueRanger said:


> *This aircraft claimed to be a Russian aircraft downed last night in the centre of Kiev would upon closer examination appear to be an Ukranian Su 27*
> View attachment 818525
> 
> 
> View attachment 818526
> 
> View attachment 818527

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## thetutle

Trench Broom said:


> Do you think NATO is still a thing? Albania is in NATO. Hypothetically if Russia attacked them, do you think NATO would go to war with Russia over an Albania, or North Macedonia etc?



Us and Uk would go to war over Albania. Russia would not be allowed to have a warm water base in Europe.

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## SIPRA

Dalit said:


> I am glad *India* is US partner.



"Baniye ka bacha kuchh daikh ker he girta hae"

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## 1ndy

Recor


RescueRanger said:


> Lots of movement visible in the region mainly consisting of US, UK, Germany and Poland air assets:
> 
> View attachment 818456


Gathering signatures of Russian systems? It is a great opportunity for them to guage the true capabilities of Russian hardware.

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## khail007

maverick1977 said:


> https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-news-02-24-22-intl/h_7f8d64c0dd3aaf8cff382cedd177de81
> 
> 
> 
> Us consulting India ? wth ?



IMO, not consulting but pressurizing to put their weight clearly on the present situation between Russia and Ukraine war. Remember, there is 'No Grey Area' - seems to be the same situation here.


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## HaMoTZeMaS

from yesterday i have been feeling a missing link between people and armed forces of Ukraine

> insignificant level of moral among people to fight against oppressor..

Russian calculated this very well

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## Meengla

Joe Shearer said:


> This is today, here and now, naked aggression.
> It is also the Russian reaction to continued and sustained NATO pressure on Russia, by extending NATO boundaries eastward directly threatening Russia.
> Russia will seemingly create a buffer zone to the east, consisting of its Russian-language majority in the Donbas region, and additional strips of land to the west of this zone, to create a buffer to the west against land attack.
> Ukraine will be kept demilitarised by force, under threat of renewed attack.
> 
> 
> Putin has made it clear that he will react to these pressures violently.
> He has not made it clear how he hopes to keep Russia in working order under the massive weight of sanctions imminent.
> China may or may not provide the economic counter-balance against sanctions.
> It is possible that this presages the final downfall of the Soviet Union, as its most important successor component, Russia, heads for decline. Perhaps sharp decline.
> 
> 
> India is very awkwardly placed.
> Supporting Russia sets her against her supposed new allies of the west.
> Breaking ties with Russia
> guarantees vast streams of surplus arms and ammunition into Pakistan, and
> the abrupt end to supplies of spares for the enormous Indian inventory of Russian weapons.
> 
> She will also be left friendless against China.
> 
> 
> We are likely to see/hear/read verbiage in plenty, basically trying to say nothing against Russia and yet not annoying the USA.
> We are likely to see this response angering the US and Europe.
> This is also likely to chill relations with Korea and Japan.
> China and Pakistan are likely to look on with cynical amusement, as the Sanghis take India down with them.



And posts like these is why PDF is far better than those armchair generals sitting in Washington and London. To them, because they are largely immune from the fall out of distant wars, it is a passing interest if they are not in the planning/military; even those in the military know that at worst they'd get a slap on the wrist for failed policies and lost wars. But to the people of the Eurasian continent--and yes, Europe is inseparable from from Asia--conflicts have often immediate consequences and thus people in the region, including on PDF are better informed.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497053476492300303


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## Tomcats

Current dispositions and overview of forces. Today was relatively bloodier with multiple Russian attacks repulsed in some areas from staunch Ukrainian defenses. However gains were still made in other areas.








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497208350727192583

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## Man of steel23

IEA statement...

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## RescueRanger

Man of steel23 said:


> IEA statement

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## Iron Shrappenel

Erdogan preache'n....


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## RescueRanger

Ukraine war latest: Moscow and US suggest talks to end war are possible; blow for Putin as public support collapses


Biden and the Kremlin hint peace talks are possible; ex-diplomat warns trying to take back Crimea would be "dangerous for all of us"; listen to the Daily podcast while you scroll, with Deborah Haynes describing life in Ukraine with constant blackouts.




news.sky.com


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## AsianLion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496869092841689095


----------



## The SC

Historically, the Dnieper River was the scene of ethnic and commercial conflicts led by the dream of controlling the only outlet for these peoples to the world (the Black Sea)..






It was represented in the struggle of the Slavs (Russia) against the Russian Scandinavian Kievan's Rus (the Scandinavian peoples that dwelt east of the Dnieper River).. And whoever controls the Dnieper controls trade.

Today's Ukraine is a mixed ethnic group of conflicting interests. Where it represents the historical ethnic conflict with its vivid face with intellectual ideological and surviving socialist influence..

Will the map of Ukraine be divided in half as the Dnieper River divided it into half Slavic and half Scandinavian to the west?

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## Beast

The war will be over by tomorrow. Thanks to NATO ( No Action Talk Only )

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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497213415022071808

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## Leviza

The way NATO reacted to this war shows that these top countries are only good to fight the weakest countries like iraq, Afghanistan etc 

Put up a strong one and they only go back to sanctions 

Now as it’s clear to Ukrainians that no help is coming from outside they should join Russia fully 

Why to stand and get a lot of people being getting killed? 

All bluffs are out on no one’s coming 

I don’t know how much it’s damaging to NATO 
Best time when they are any country that we will protect you if you give up XYZ , no one is going to believe them 

Interesting times ahead

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## NA71

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497208440560644097

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## RescueRanger

AsianLion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496869092841689095


This is fake.

The statement from NATO was not even worth switching from one tab to another.

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## Trench Broom

I guess this is why we saw Gulf & Israel alliance. The writing was on the wall with America's disengagement and new found cowardice. Now all countries under the so-called 'protection' of America will be looking for new alliances,

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## NA71

Iron Shrappenel said:


> Erdogan preache'n....


Chacha Jani.... Over reacting


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## Beast

Leviza said:


> The way NATO reacted to this war shows that these top countries are only good to fight the weakest countries like iraq, Afghanistan etc
> 
> Put up a strong one and they only go back to sanctions
> 
> Now as it’s clear to Ukrainians that no help is coming from outside they should join Russia fully
> 
> Why to stand and get a lot of people being getting killed?
> 
> All bluffs are out on no one’s coming
> 
> I don’t know how much it’s damaging to NATO
> Best time when they are any country that we will protect you if you give up XYZ , no one is going to believe them
> 
> Interesting times ahead


There are some delusion western idiots who still believe in supapowa US and NATO. LOL..

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## Joe Shearer

Man of steel23 said:


> Forget the Nukes? France is not a freaking god what is this UNSC shxt you are talking about? France is not formidble or a force to be reckoned? You sound like someone who has been living under a stone..
> 
> Iran is 10 times tougher to conquer then France in real life.. In truth both France and UK shouldn't be in UNSC but instead Pakistan and India who are geninuely stronger then both militarily that is a simple ground fact but just because they are angle-saxon they got admitted but militarily both are not formidble..
> 
> Do you really think France can defeat Pakisan in 1v1 or France can defeat India in 1v1? Or Britain vs India? Do you really think the British can overcome the Indians in this age and time? you gotta be kidding me bro.. This is not the 18-century.. India can make quick work of the British without getting out of the first gear.. There is scale to this


Somebody asked me the other day so I dug out the figures. Boy, did I get a shock!

The British Army is 82,000 strong. No, mistake - 86,000 strong, including 3,900 Gurkhas, as they spell it.

That looked odd - they got four regiments of Gurkhas at independence, and that should have been around 5 to 6,000 per regiment, around 20,000 to 24,000 Gurkha riflemen. Only 3,900? 

So I checked the Indian Army figures.

40,000 Gorkhas. That's nearly half the strength of the entire British Army. 

Somebody somewhere said the British would start a civil war in India and India (Indians) would pay them to come and settle things. Yeah, right.

Just for the record, the French Army is 120,000 strong.

You might ask, so, if numbers alone matter, how come the Pakistan Army has always fought the Indian Army to a standstill, without a major defeat other than Bangladesh, and a special case, Kargil? It's simple; the Pakistani soldier is as brave as the Indian soldier. He is better equipped. The Pakistani military has got its mind firmly wrapped around making complex manoeuvres successfully, with all arms involved. It has made mistakes teaming up armour and infantry, but things have changed. It has never made mistakes with its artillery, and it has never neglected its artillery arm. 

Most important is the nagging fear in the minds of the Indian Army that China might get involved somewhere. The result is that the Army keeps a considerable number of divisions facing the PLA. When they go to war, Pakistan and India are at par, in terms of numbers. India will defeat Pakistan, or Pakistan will only defeat India, if one or the other of their respective command structures makes a sustained series of blunders.

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## HAIDER

Iron Shrappenel said:


> Erdogan preache'n....


He is proving his loyalty after getting S400... lolz... He is more concerned about big defense contracts and joint ventures with the present Ukraine govt. Also, Turkey is Russians first tourist destination, earns huge foreign exchange.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497028860340150277

Massive intelligence coup for the US.

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## TheNoob

Joe Shearer said:


> Somebody asked me the other day so I dug out the figures. Boy, did I get a shock!
> 
> The British Army is 82,000 strong. No, mistake - 86,000 strong, including 3,900 Gurkhas, as they spell it.
> 
> That looked odd - they got four regiments of Gurkhas at independence, and that should have been around 5 to 6,000 per regiment, around 20,000 to 24,000 Gurkha riflemen. Only 3,900?
> 
> So I checked the Indian Army figures.
> 
> 40,000 Gorkhas. That's nearly half the strength of the entire British Army.
> 
> Somebody somewhere said the British would start a civil war in India and India (Indians) would pay them to come and settle things. Yeah, right.
> 
> Just for the record, the French Army is 120,000 strong.
> 
> You might ask, so, if numbers alone matter, how come the Pakistan Army has always fought the Indian Army to a standstill, without a major defeat other than Bangladesh, and a special case, Kargil? It's simple; the Pakistani soldier is as brave as the Indian soldier. He is better equipped. The Pakistani military has got its mind firmly wrapped around making complex manoeuvres successfully, with all arms involved. It has made mistakes teaming up armour and infantry, but things have changed. It has never made mistakes with its artillery, and it has never neglected its artillery arm.
> 
> Most important is the nagging fear in the minds of the Indian Army that China might get involved somewhere. The result is that the Army keeps a considerable number of divisions facing the PLA. When they go to war, Pakistan and India are at par, in terms of numbers. India will defeat Pakistan, or Pakistan will only defeat India, if one or the other of their respective command structures makes a sustained series of blunders.



There is no doubt that the average soldier in sub-continent is better mentally prepared as a warrior way more than most of these European countries post-WW2.

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## Meengla

arjunk said:


> This war will strengthen China, if anything. If the Russian economy and military is weakened, China can influence it more easily. Same with the West.



Yes.
I am surprised a generally well informed person like @gambit would think China would be in a worse position after this. I bet all Chinese members here are in 7th Heaven with what's going on and I don't blame them on bit!

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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497028860340150277
> 
> Massive intelligence coup for the US.



That is some random American dude on Twitter.

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## The SC

The situation on the ground now:

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## Trench Broom

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497028860340150277
> 
> Massive intelligence coup for the US.


Really? you're currently busy tearing yourselves apart over "what is a woman" and putting pink haired freaks into your military. How are you going to apply the "intelligence" you're picking up from the Russian invasion? to sit by and watch as China then takes Taiwan? America is done. You're toast.

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## AViet

siegecrossbow said:


> Wut??? You have a source for this?



Some Vietnamese-language channel on Youtube, by oversea Vietnamese living in the US, which you may not understand. I believe most American Vietnamese do not care about this joke.

You may search by typing "Dao Minh Quan". There may be some English news about this.

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## Paul2

Meengla said:


> Yes.
> I am surprised a generally well informed person like @gambit would think China would be in a worse position after this. I bet all Chinese members here are in 7th Heaven with what's going on and I don't blame them on bit!



You are completely correct. 2 month ago, certain interest circles were quietly salivating with prospects of Russians getting stuck in Kazakhstan, but now this is a feast bigger than they dreamed of

Russia goes broke — cheap oil, and gas for us

Russia getting weak — outer northeast for us

West getting scared of Russia — easing of pressure on us

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## RescueRanger

Joe Shearer said:


> Somebody asked me the other day so I dug out the figures. Boy, did I get a shock!
> 
> The British Army is 82,000 strong. No, mistake - 86,000 strong, including 3,900 Gurkhas, as they spell it.
> 
> That looked odd - they got four regiments of Gurkhas at independence, and that should have been around 5 to 6,000 per regiment, around 20,000 to 24,000 Gurkha riflemen. Only 3,900?
> 
> So I checked the Indian Army figures.
> 
> 40,000 Gorkhas. That's nearly half the strength of the entire British Army.
> 
> Somebody somewhere said the British would start a civil war in India and India (Indians) would pay them to come and settle things. Yeah, right.
> 
> Just for the record, the French Army is 120,000 strong.
> 
> You might ask, so, if numbers alone matter, how come the Pakistan Army has always fought the Indian Army to a standstill, without a major defeat other than Bangladesh, and a special case, Kargil? It's simple; the Pakistani soldier is as brave as the Indian soldier. He is better equipped. The Pakistani military has got its mind firmly wrapped around making complex manoeuvres successfully, with all arms involved. It has made mistakes teaming up armour and infantry, but things have changed. It has never made mistakes with its artillery, and it has never neglected its artillery arm.
> 
> Most important is the nagging fear in the minds of the Indian Army that China might get involved somewhere. The result is that the Army keeps a considerable number of divisions facing the PLA. When they go to war, Pakistan and India are at par, in terms of numbers. India will defeat Pakistan, or Pakistan will only defeat India, if one or the other of their respective command structures makes a sustained series of blunders.



Slightly O/T but this has more to do with the reality dawning on many states to modernize and "pick and mix" reducing human capital and investing in technology as force multipliers, a modern army in a cash strapped miserably age:

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## Meengla

Oldman1 said:


> Mines should have been places, bridges blown up earlier, etc. Stingers and anti tank weapons are being used right now. The Russian forces are ignoring the towns and going fast for the objective which is Kiev.



From thousands of years of warfare experience, humans even now instinctively go for the kill: *Kill the leadership and capture the capital city when invading*. The rest often falls into place mostly due to the psychological affects. *Often the pre-war resisting, determined population cheer for the invaders!* And in case of Ukraine, the cultural/ethnic overlap makes Russia's job much easier than, say, Americans or the Soviets trying to 'win the hearts and minds' of Afghans.

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## Clutch

Speaker of Ukraine Parliament filmed fleeing with his family….​


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496721285300248578

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## AViet

MH.Yang said:


> …



haha, I am surprised too. Probably that is part of the joke, or just typo.

The ticket is $5000 to attend the ceremony.


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## The SC



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## Khanate

Man of steel23 said:


> IEA statement...

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## Clutch

Russian Troops Seize Kyiv Airport in Stunning Airborne Operation; Ukraine Counterattacks​By Richard Moorhead, The Western Journal February 24, 2022 at 2:10pm

   


Russian special forces troops have seized control of the primary international airport outside Kyiv, Ukraine’s capital.

The Antonov International Airport fell under Russian control early on Thursday.

The site is roughly 15 miles from Ukraine’s capital, with many observers of the war shocked that the Russian military had secured the immensely strategic location hundreds of miles from eastern Ukraine.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496849053824471041

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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> View attachment 818565


I'm sorry, what is your point?


----------



## White privilege

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497028860340150277
> 
> Massive intelligence coup for the US.


Even bigger for China, as it flexes it's muscles in SCS.Now it also knows US would not come to its allies' aid.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497069383574867968

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## khail007

kingQamaR said:


> You've got to feel sorry for these Russian conscripts, who look very young and quite frankly pathetic. I've got a feeling this aggressive land grab in Ukraine will not end well for Putin.



You explained it rightly, such invasions don't help for long. IMO, the Russian target is for regime change and won't hold for long. The main objective is to ensure Ukraine will not have NATO basis at the doorstep of Russia.




kingQamaR said:


> The Russians are notoriously brutal even when it comes to their own people.


Indeed, neither Great Britain, France, Italy, USA. All were/are same in the history.


----------



## The SC

RescueRanger said:


> I'm sorry, what is your point?


One man against many women..

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## Meengla

jamahir said:


> Just because you are American it need not mean you have to support your imperialist, Capitalist, plutocratic, two-party dictatorship political system which maintains the biggest and invasions-oriented military in the world whose budget just for 2020-21 was 700+ billion dollars.



As I said many posts ago in this thread, people are going to approach this conflict through their own perceived 'national interests'. For the Chinse and the Iranians, this conflict is quite welcome. For Indians and Pakistanis, it should be a neutral viewpoint except for reflexive anti-Americanism in some Pakistanis due to recent past. For Americans here, they have to support whatever the US Govt does even though many would despise and distrust Biden for his domestic policies. My neighbor--a staunch Democrat -- is still refusing to condemn Biden's aggressive foreign policy just as he refused Obama's adventures in Libya and Syria, even though the neighbor is very strongly against wars (and Israel). 
Ahh, our blinders!! This is all so 'Human. All too Human'.

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## Daniel808

5Km away from Kherson

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497219549778915330

Full Speed on Kiev Highway, no significant resistance from Ukraine

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497217327187832840

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## ziaulislam

Meengla said:


> Yes.
> I am surprised a generally well informed person like @gambit would think China would be in a worse position after this. I bet all Chinese members here are in 7th Heaven with what's going on and I don't blame them on bit!


Informed?
He is old guy living in 1960s
Hell even if you live in 1980s..you will be outdated..

china was poorer then pakistan in 1980s..

The world has changed rapidly

Imagine a guy coming from 2010..he will not know most of the electronic and social media revolution..

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## reflecthofgeismar

Hack-Hook said:


> So we are haradrims , from where you get it?



That's wrong.
Russians and Iranians are Easterlings/Rhun.
Best fighting force of Mordor!
Even when the Gondorians say lay your weapons down because they won the battle of Pelenor Field, they fought and died for Sauron, instead of running like the different Orcs (Turks) who have a hate-relationship with their master.
Mordor and Isengard Uruk-Hais are improved Orcs (Turks), like the Janissaries.


----------



## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497203581849583632

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## reflecthofgeismar

thetutle said:


> Well they are as free as the US would be if the German parliament got to decide what weapons the US will have and what range its missiles will have and what type of weapons the US is allowed to make. And if Germany had bases all over America.
> 
> Yeah, its not a free country, it is an occupied country. It doesn't mind the occupation because it doesn't really have a choice.


Germany is allowed (by 2+4 treaty) to have 370k troops, not more than 345k in Army/Air Force.
They could have 1000+ modernized Leopard 2 and 1000+ Puma IFV and 400 EF Tranche 3A/4, nobody would whine, maybe the Frenchies and Poles...
It's German decision.
For 499km range rockets/missiles yes, it's a treaty too.

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## Dalit

The SC said:


> View attachment 818565



LMAO. Vivid illustration.


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## Man of steel23

Khanate said:


> View attachment 818563



Zabiullah is actully most watched and most broadcasted spokesperson.. They don't say much but when they do the world listens

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## Daniel808

Ukraine Defence lines around Kherson has been breached by Russians Southern Front Army


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497224916915085316

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497221608951398431

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## Dalit

Man. Epic. I thought Afghanistan would be the final trophy. Here we have trophies upon trophies. Would I be wrong to claim that we feel avenged?

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## HttpError

mike2000 is back said:


> What territory has Britain ever ceeded to Russia? Lol


You guys are lucky that you are thousands of miles away or else that tiny island you call the UK would have even shrunk further if you were next to Russia and tried these shenanigans that you are doing these days.

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## mike2000 is back

NA71 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497208440560644097


Ideally Russiaa goal is to annex parts of Ukraine into Russian federation just like crimea. However that will depends on how things play out and if everything goes according to Putin's plan. Things can be adjusted depending on the situation of the war. Russia's spy chief reveal this plan by a stroke of blunder. He seem so scared of Putin the he was stammering and forgot not to reveal such things publicly lol 






Was hilarious 😂

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## Man of steel23

Daniel808 said:


> Ukraine Defence lines around Kherson has been breached by Russians Southern Front Army
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497224916915085316
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497221608951398431



wow at drug addicts there is no love lost here

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## Daniel808

Arsalan890 said:


> I think Russia planned this invasion during trump era. Weakness of trump administration has been exploited years after he was gone. Russia knows that trump can win Election again so yes, All nearby Baltic states who aligned themselves with allies are in danger. problem is lack of trust between united states and European countries. trump ruined relations.
> 
> Russia will not stop here. Next is Romania. I think it's time to stop Russians. They are definitely not well wishers of Pakistan. I don't know why Imran khan hasn't cancelled tour to Moscow. Pakistan should align herself with allies rather than axis. China and Russia, both are communist with same mindset and that is expansion. China will definitely attack Taiwan and try to copy Russian invasion.
> 
> Those who thinks that China is friend are fools. Yes they helped us every time but don't trust them. Both China and Russia should be stopped at all costs. Pakistan must leave this beggar policy behind and should look to align herself with allies. Pakistan In Chinese and Russian camp will be disastrous.
> 
> European countries are worried and there is an uneasy situation. They know they are next and Russia only wants old soviet union bac so that they can project themselves as super powers once again.
> 
> I feel sorry for people who are trapped in Ukraine. Sanctions will hurt Russia but it will take time. Russia will die it's own death but it will take some time. Allies must join hands and United states should project herself as super power. This is the time, this is the moment.



Last time I check, the one that killed your soldiers & slaughter your children with drones are american, Not Russian nor Chinese

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## TheNoob

Arsalan890 said:


> I think Russia planned this invasion during trump era. Weakness of trump administration has been exploited years after he was gone. Russia knows that trump can win Election again so yes, All nearby Baltic states who aligned themselves with allies are in danger. problem is lack of trust between united states and European countries. trump ruined relations.
> 
> Russia will not stop here. Next is Romania. I think it's time to stop Russians. They are definitely not well wishers of Pakistan. I don't know why Imran khan hasn't cancelled tour to Moscow. Pakistan should align herself with allies rather than axis. China and Russia, both are communist with same mindset and that is expansion. China will definitely attack Taiwan and try to copy Russian invasion.
> 
> Those who thinks that China is friend are fools. Yes they helped us every time but don't trust them. Both China and Russia should be stopped at all costs. Pakistan must leave this beggar policy behind and should look to align herself with allies. Pakistan In Chinese and Russian camp will be disastrous.
> 
> European countries are worried and there is an uneasy situation. They know they are next and Russia only wants old soviet union bac so that they can project themselves as super powers once again.
> 
> I feel sorry for people who are trapped in Ukraine. Sanctions will hurt Russia but it will take time. Russia will die it's own death but it will take some time. Allies must join hands and United states should project herself as super power. This is the time, this is the moment.



Yeah you're definitely on something right now. 

As a Pakistani, we already know what it is like to be "Friends" with allies. 

Neither are expansionist as you claim, for Russia, it's survival since NATO's entire existence is to contain the Russian Federation. 
The slavic ethnic divide also adds fuel to the fire whilst they join NATO. 

This was a legitimate security concern, if the past 8 years have taught us anything. 


To say that Russia wants the union back is just a brain fart, no offense.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497079577885118469


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## Daniel808

Man of steel23 said:


> wow at drug addicts there is no love lost here



Of course


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497222821721817112

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## jamahir

In this war does anyone have link to journalism embedded in the Russian side like from the ANNA news agency which so wonderfully and bravely were embedded with Syrian tanks and did interviews with Russian forces in Syria ? I ask this because there seems to be no inputs from the Russian forces.



Meengla said:


> As I said many posts ago in this thread, people are going to approach this conflict through their own perceived 'national interests'. For the Chinse and the Iranians, this conflict is quite welcome. For Indians and Pakistanis, it should be a neutral viewpoint except for reflexive anti-Americanism in some Pakistanis due to recent past. For Americans here, they have to support whatever the US Govt does even though many would despise and distrust Biden for his domestic policies. My neighbor--a staunch Democrat -- is still refusing to condemn Biden's aggressive foreign policy just as he refused Obama's adventures in Libya and Syria, even though the neighbor is very strongly against wars (and Israel).
> Ahh, our blinders!! This is all so 'Human. All too Human'.



But that is where we must get ourselves out from herd mentality, in this case nationalism which in any case is an artificial concept, and make our human judgements. Be actually moral. Your neighbor is against wars but refuses to condemn his governments' illegal actions in the world. That is contradictory. He may just be scared of being condemned by the fake morality that pervades Western societies in general. Look at the "Putin must be stopped" protests in the West while the same outraged people did no "NATO must be stopped" protests in the last 11 years of war against Libya and Syria and a reasonable amount of years against NATO's conspiracy against Venezuela.

Beyond our nationality we have our base identity as Human and I hope many people will realize that part of their identity.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Iron Shrappenel

But the point he made is quite right and loyalty to whom ? Putin ? Do you think Turkey needs Putin ? Or to Nato ? By grilling them ? The number of tourists combined coming on from NATO countries such as Bulgaria Germany and UK outnumber them... concerned about his joint ventures... Of course he is concerned and so should be Pakistan.... With over 640 MBTs sourced or using Ukrainian equipment... Pakistan has lot more stake at in case of complete destruction of military defense industry... 85 million $ T80UD upgrades ... Down the drain... Al-Khalid engine upgrade heck keeping the production line up with the current engines would be questionable.... So allow me to apologize for Erdogan if he calls out the wests hypocrisy... Cheers.


HAIDER said:


> He is proving his loyalty after getting S400... lolz... He is more concerned about big defense contracts and joint ventures with the present Ukraine govt. Also, Turkey is Russians first tourist destination, earns huge foreign exchange.


----------



## TheNoob

jamahir said:


> In this war does anyone have link to journalism embedded in the Russian side like from the ANNA news agency which so wonderfully and bravely were embedded with Syrian tanks and did interviews with Russian forces in Syria ? I ask this because there seems to be no inputs from the Russian forces.
> 
> 
> 
> But that is where we must get ourselves out from herd mentality, in this case nationalism which in any case is an artificial concept, and make our human judgements. Be actually moral. Your neighbor is against wars but refuses to condemn his governments' illegal actions in the world. That is contradictory. He may just be scared of being condemned by the fake morality that pervades Western societies in general. Look at the "Putin must be stopped" protests in the West while the same outraged people did no "NATO must be stopped" protests in the last 11 years of war against Libya and Syria and a reasonable amount of years against NATO's conspiracy against Venezuela.
> 
> Beyond our nationality we have our base identity as Human and I hope many people will realize that part of their identity.



If there is something I learned from all the recent conflicts the last 3 decades. 
It's that conventional warfare doesn't have journalism, it's propaganda. 

But when it's a civil war, everybody wants to independently push their agenda. 

So I highly doubt we will get any information whatsoever, on either ends, from any third-party media, except for state media or aligned media.


----------



## Arsalan890

TheNoob said:


> Yeah you're definitely on something right now.
> 
> As a Pakistani, we already know what it is like to be "Friends" with allies.
> 
> Neither are expansionist as you claim, for Russia, it's survival since NATO's entire existence is to contain the Russian Federation.
> The slavic ethnic divide also adds fuel to the fire whilst they join NATO.
> 
> This was a legitimate security concern, if the past 8 years have taught us anything.
> 
> 
> To say that Russia wants the union back is just a brain fart, no offense.


I m sorry but I can't force you to think like a think tank. They will continue to invade. All countries who are nearby are in danger. Looks like Pakistani people forgets Afghanistan invasion of soviet union. they aren't our friends. Supporting them means supporting axis and history teaches us several facts about communist states.

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## Iron Shrappenel

NA71 said:


> Chacha Jani.... Over reacting


Meri jaan Chacha knows what's at stake unlike Pakistani Roosi simps...


----------



## Areesh

RescueRanger said:


> I'm sorry, what is your point?



That this should be posted as a banner in Aurat march 2022

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## thetutle

reflecthofgeismar said:


> Germany is allowed (by 2+4 treaty) to have 370k troops, not more than 345k in Army/Air Force.
> They could have 1000+ modernized Leopard 2 and 1000+ Puma IFV and 400 EF Tranche 3A/4, nobody would whine, maybe the Frenchies and Poles...
> It's German decision.
> For 499km range rockets/missiles yes, it's a treaty too.



But Germany does not have any rockets with 499km range. they are all less. So yes, its an occupied country with limited sovereignty. Of course its also not allowed to have nuclear weapons. 

1,000 tanks, lol, exactly. Germany should have 10,000 tanks. Its an industrial powerhouse of 85 million people. 

But while this world order exists Germany will never be able to defend itself against powers like Russia. 

Its so perverse and embarrassing that France is the only real continental power west of Russia. When we all know a free and sovereign Germany armed to its potential would crush France in weeks, just like before.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497102822239879188

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## Daniel808

Arsalan890 said:


> Hello. we allowed them to bomb us. they didn't start bombing without permission. Our foreign policy is a joke. United states not an enemy.



That’s your right to think like that.


But as Chinese, If someone bomb our country, killed our soldiers, and slaughter our children. We will not act chicken and blame our fellow brother, instead we fvck them hard

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497222922431254531

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497222923551186946

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497222924754894879

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497222926008872961

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497222927279865873

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497222928378773517


----------



## Man of steel23

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497177713383198722


----------



## beijingwalker

Peace in sight? 
Putin and China’s Xi discuss Ukraine, West​By The Associated Press
26 minutes ago

MOSCOW — The Kremlin says Russian President Vladimir Putin has told Chinese President Xi Jinping he’s ready to send a delegation for talks with Ukrainian officials.

The Kremlin said in its readout of Friday’s call that Xi underlined that he “views the Russian leadership’s action in the crisis situation with respect.”

In a reference to new Western sanctions against Russia over its invasion in Ukraine, the Kremlin noted that Putin and Xi agreed “it’s inadmissible to use illegitimate sanctions for achieving selfish goals of certain countries.”

Chinese state TV reported that Xi emphasized that China “supports Russia and Ukraine resolving the problem through negotiations.”










Live updates: Zelenskyy declines US offer to evacuate Kyiv


The latest on the Russia-Ukraine crisis : KYIV, Ukraine — Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy was asked to evacuate Kyiv at the behest of the U.S.




apnews.com


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497222929460903941

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497222930547326980

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497222931650338816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497222932757626886


----------



## Trench Broom

Estonia sending weapons to Ukraine. Javlins etc.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496995123044909056


----------



## Daniel808

😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497221528722849792

Yes, current ukies president is ex stand-up comedian. Before he choose to enter politics

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## Diviner

jamahir said:


> In this war does anyone have link to journalism embedded in the Russian side like from the ANNA news agency which so wonderfully and bravely were embedded with Syrian tanks and did interviews with Russian forces in Syria ? I ask this because there seems to be no inputs from the Russian forces.
> 
> 
> 
> But that is where we must get ourselves out from herd mentality, in this case nationalism which in any case is an artificial concept, and make our human judgements. Be actually moral. Your neighbor is against wars but refuses to condemn his governments' illegal actions in the world. That is contradictory. He may just be scared of being condemned by the fake morality that pervades Western societies in general. Look at the "Putin must be stopped" protests in the West while the same outraged people did no "NATO must be stopped" protests in the last 11 years of war against Libya and Syria and a reasonable amount of years against NATO's conspiracy against Venezuela.
> 
> Beyond our nationality we have our base identity as Human and I hope many people will realize that part of their identity.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## thetutle

mike2000 is back said:


> Ideally Russiaa goal is to annex parts of Ukraine into Russian federation just like crimea. However that will depends on how things play out and if everything goes according to Putin's plan. Things can be adjusted depending on the situation of the war. Russia's spy chief reveal this plan by a stroke of blunder. He seem so scared of Putin the he was stammering and forgot not to reveal such things publicly lol



Re really did, Putin wet red in the face. couldn't believe it. What an amateur. This is a blunder of the decade.

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## mike2000 is back

HttpError said:


> You guys are lucky that you are thousands of miles away or else that tiny island you call the UK would have even shrunk further if you were next to Russia and tried these shenanigans that you are doing these days.


Lol I asked a simple question about a statement you made about Britain ceeding territory to Russia, instead of answering my question politely they way I asked(politely) you just went on an angry rant about Britain and throwing insults up and down. Lol There are many countries who had to ceed their territory to Russia at one point in time(even your ally China had to ceed lots of her terroritory to the black bear) but Britain has never been part of this. 

Your logic can be used against your own country Pakistan even more than britain as well. After all, Britain has been a great power and self sufficient one at that. We have some of the most advanced and biggest defence industries on earth. We can sustain our own against any big power if push comes to shoves. Its just that we don't face any any real immediate threat reason we can afford to lower our military to the levels we do today(personally I don't agree with this policy). 
However, your country pakistan is not the same, you barely have any industry to be honest and the one you do have is not really up to par by world standards, so in the event of a war protracted war you will need foreign support to keep your military machine going.

So in this regard we can also use your logic to say that if Russia was your neighbour then your entire nation probably won't even exist as Russia would have carved out your territory into several different parts more than anything India has been able to do(apart from Bengladesh they haven't been able to carve out more ).


----------



## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> That is some random American dude on Twitter.




He’s the lead editor of the War Zone

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## TheNoob

Daniel808 said:


> 😂
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497221528722849792
> 
> Yes, current ukies president is ex stand-up comedian. Before he choose to enter politics



What makes you think this entire fiasco isn't one of his punchlines. LOL

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## QWECXZ



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## Khanate

Alleged captured soldier:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497224719518486531
The narrative is shifting to warcrimes on day 2:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497225013019115526

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497225302166147077
Ukrainian tank man:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497217650820268068


NotSure said:


> That was the ukr Su-27 downed by russian airdef. Already posted here. Kiev have gone to full retard fake news propaganda. Same story with the recaptured airport near kiev. Never happened and russia is now flying troops to the Gostomel airport.




Going by social media, Ukraine won.

What Ukraine won is unclear.

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## thetutle

TheNoob said:


> To say that Russia wants the union back is just a brain fart, no offense.



Its not the Soviet Union that Russia wants, its the thing that came before it, the Russian empire. From kyrgistan to Moldova. from Crimea to Estonia. Russia feels robbed that all these people got their freedom. Or semi freedom. It wants them back to enslave them.


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497028860340150277
> 
> Massive intelligence coup for the US.


It goes both ways... US and Russia both will learn from the shortcomings.... Would be silly to think the Russians would do them again...


----------



## Daniel808

Khanate said:


> Ukrainian tank man:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497217650820268068
> 
> 
> 
> Going by social media, Ukraine won.
> 
> What Ukraine won is unclear.



Damn, lucky he meet Russian soldier.
If that US cowboy soldier. That man would become a pie in no time

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## Meengla

Englishman said:


> Considering the mess created in Iraq ( see Chilcot enquiry), I don't think we have the right to school the Russians.
> 
> Perhaps someone can convince me otherwise...



Nobody can convince you because no convincing is needed. The illegal American-led invasion of Iraq in 2003 was a watershed event in world history. The attack happened without the UN authorization, the attack happened when even France was going to Veto the pro-war Resolution in UNSC and Germany staunchly opposed the war. The attack happened when in no country except USA, Israel and Kuwait had even a simple majority of people supported the war. AND the attack happened because the damned leeching Israeli Lobby--whose role is well known--pushed for the war. That leech country has drained America's goodwill and resources in the Middle East and today the leech country is not even condemning Russia's attack because the leech country knows the Russian power in Syria--what an ingrate 'friend' of America!!! There is no more any inherent conflict between the West and the Islamic world; both meet each other geographically and both are matched to live side by side in peace--except for the distortions started in the 20th century to serve the interests of the leech country!

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## TheNoob

thetutle said:


> Its not the Soviet Union that Russia wants, its the thing that came before it, the Russian empire. From kyrgistan to Moldova. from Crimea to Estonia. Russia feels robbed that all these people got their freedom. Or semi freedom. It wants them back to enslave them.



Ok, well, I'll re-iterate myself... 
That is a brain fart.


----------



## Man of steel23

The Azov battlion fanatics will fight to the last man


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497232469929730070


----------



## Trango Towers

gambit said:


> Why is it funny? Ukraine is not NATO member. And have you not been following that it was Russia who made a *WRITTEN* promise back in 1994 not to attack Ukraine?


You American created this war. Sadly poor Ukraine is suffering because they bought your BS. 
Stupidly Ukraine gave up nukes

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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497102822239879188


This Twitter account is worth following.

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## HttpError

mike2000 is back said:


> Lol I asked a simple question about a statement you made about Britain ceeding territory to Russia, instead of answering my question politely they way I asked(politely) you just went on an angry rant about Britain and throwing insults up and down. Lol There are many countries who had to ceed their territory to Russia at one point in time(even your ally China had to ceed lots of her terroritory to the black bear) but Britain has never been part of this.
> 
> Your logic can be used against your own country Pakistan even more than britain as well. After all, Britain has been a great power and self sufficient one at that. We have some of the most advanced and biggest defence industries on earth. We can sustain our own against any big power if push comes to shoves. Its just that we don't face any any real immediate threat reason we can afford to lower our military to the levels we do today(personally I don't agree with this policy).
> However, your country pakistan is not the same, you barely have any industry to be honest and the one you do have is not really up to par by world standards, so in the event of a war protracted war you will need foreign support to keep your military machine going.
> 
> So in this regard we can also use your logic to say that if Russia was your neighbour then your entire nation probably won't even exist as Russia would have carved out your territory into several different parts more than anything India has been able to do(apart from Bengladesh they haven't been able to carve out more ).


The great industries you talk about and wealth was all stolen from the commonwealth colonies. You looted Trillions of $ just from the sub-continent alone. You committed Genocide against humanity in the Sub-continent and other parts of the world. There is nothing glorious about your today or past as it was all based on atrocities and theft. Your time is up because you need to Repay (Pakistan) of its stolen wealth and the atrocities you committed here.

You can talk all you want but I don't want to waste my time by writing huge paragraphs which doesn't even make any sense. The fact is you guys are nothing but a vassal state of the US. So I'd like to talk to your Manager (Master/USA)  You guys are no Body.

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## Daniel808

Man of steel23 said:


> The Azov battlion fanatics will fight to the last man
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497232469929730070



The Only Good NAZIS is a Dead one.
Those NAZIS wanabee would face Chechen Battle Hardened troops.

On the way to Mariupol at this moment to fight Azov Batallion stationed there

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497178570547994645

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## _Nabil_

Arsalan890 said:


> Hello. we allowed them to bomb us. they didn't start bombing without permission. Our foreign policy is a joke. United states not an enemy.


Please stop embarrassing yourself and your country, ....

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## jamahir

TheNoob said:


> If there is something I learned from all the recent conflicts the last 3 decades.
> It's that conventional warfare doesn't have journalism, it's propaganda.
> 
> But when it's a civil war, everybody wants to independently push their agenda.
> 
> So I highly doubt we will get any information whatsoever, on either ends, from any third-party media, except for state media or aligned media.



Well, Syria isn't quite a civil war.  ANNA reporters did good there hence my question if they are in Ukraine embedded with the Russians.


----------



## nang2

HttpError said:


> The great industries you talk about and wealth was all stolen from the comment wealth colonies. You looted Trillions of $ just from the sub-continent alone. You committed Genocide against humanity in the Sub-continent and other parts of the world. There is nothing glorious about your today or past as it was all based on atrocities and theft. Your time is up because you need to Repay (Pakistan) of its stolen wealth and the atrocities you committed here.
> 
> You can talk all you want but I don't want to waste my time by writing huge paragraphs which doesn't even make any sense. The fact is you guys are nothing but a vassal state of the US. So I'd like to talk to your Manager (Master/USA)  You guys are no Body.


I think that is a common mistake made by nostalgic folks who overestimate the glory of the long-gone past. Yes, western colonists looted other countries relentlessly. But those countries weren't that rich, either. Chinese often make such a mistake, too, and boast how big the GDP was before the western countries invaded, while completely ignore the fact that Chinese productivity back then was already way behind the western countries.

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## The SC

Deutschland bekommt fast sein gesamtes Gas aus nur drei Ländern: Russland, Norwegen und den Niederlanden. Nur 2 Prozent ihrer Erdgasimporte bezieht die Bundesrepublik laut dem Wirtschaftsministerium aus anderen Ländern.

Germany gets almost all its gas from only three countries: Russia, Norway and the Netherlands. According to the Ministry of Economy from other countries, only 2 percent of its natural gas comes from the federal republic.

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## QWECXZ



Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Joe Shearer

Man of steel23 said:


> Forget the Nukes? France is not a freaking god what is this UNSC shxt you are talking about? France is not formidble or a force to be reckoned? You sound like someone who has been living under a stone..
> 
> Iran is 10 times tougher to conquer then France in real life.. In truth both France and UK shouldn't be in UNSC but instead Pakistan and India who are geninuely stronger then both militarily that is a simple ground fact but just because they are angle-saxon they got admitted but militarily both are not formidble..
> 
> Do you really think France can defeat Pakisan in 1v1 or France can defeat India in 1v1? Or Britain vs India? Do you really think the British can overcome the Indians in this age and time? you gotta be kidding me bro.. This is not the 18-century.. India can make quick work of the British without getting out of the first gear.. There is scale to this


Somebody asked me the other day so I dug out the figures. Boy, did I get a shock!

The British Army is 82,000 strong. No, mistake - 86,000 strong, including 3,900 Gurkhas, as they spell it.

That looked odd - they got four regiments of Gurkhas at independence, and that should have been around 5 to 6,000 per regiment, around 20,000 to 24,000 Gurkha riflemen. Only 3,900?

So I checked the Indian Army figures.

40,000 Gorkhas. That's nearly half the strength of the entire British Army.

Somebody somewhere said the British would start a civil war in India and India (Indians) would pay them to come and settle things. Yeah, right.

Just for the record, the French Army is 120,000 strong.

You might ask, so, if numbers alone matter, how come the Pakistan Army has always fought the Indian Army to a standstill, without a major defeat other than Bangladesh, and a special case, Kargil? It's simple; the Pakistani soldier is as brave as the Indian soldier. He is better equipped. The Pakistani military has got its mind firmly wrapped around making complex manoeuvres successfully, with all arms involved. It has made mistakes teaming up armour and infantry, but things have changed. It has never made mistakes with its artillery, and it has never neglected its artillery arm.

Most important is the nagging fear in the minds of the Indian Army that China might get involved somewhere. The result is that the Army keeps a considerable number of divisions facing the PLA. When they go to war, Pakistan and India are at par, in terms of numbers. India will defeat Pakistan, or Pakistan will only defeat India, if one or the other of their respective command structures makes a sustained series of blunders.


RescueRanger said:


> Slightly O/T but this has more to do with the reality dawning on many states to modernize and "pick and mix" reducing human capital and investing in technology as force multipliers, a modern army in a cash strapped miserably age:
> 
> View attachment 818562


Don't get me wrong; I'd like to see a much smaller Indian Army, completely differently equipped, compared to its state of equipment today, and a much larger Indian Navy, it being the best of our services.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Bilal.

_Nabil_ said:


> Please stop embarrassing yourself and your country, ....


Actually not completely untrue. We were being ruled by traitors back then.






WikiLeaks: Pakistan quietly approved drone attacks, U.S. special units


On the record, Pakistan has persistently criticized the United States' use of unmanned drones to attack militant hideouts in its mountainous border region.




edition.cnn.com

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## _Nabil_

Arsalan890 said:


> Oh my God! they start deleting my post. these robots are back.. if you speak truth, you will be sidelined. They are removing my comments swiftly. They removed my reply to Nabil. Nabil noob you aren't even country. Who knows tunisia? must be some slave arab country with no importance.


If I was in your place I would delete my post myself, Indians were probably laughing out loud at your posts ....

Don't take it personal .....


----------



## Joe Shearer

ziaulislam said:


> Informed?
> He is old guy living in 1960s
> Hell even if you live in 1980s..you will be outdated..
> 
> china was poorer then pakistan in 1980s..
> 
> The world has changed rapidly
> 
> Imagine a guy coming from 2010..he will not know most of the electronic and social media revolution..


Thanks, buddy.

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## _Nabil_

Bilal. said:


> Actually not completely untrue. We were being ruled by traitors back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WikiLeaks: Pakistan quietly approved drone attacks, U.S. special units
> 
> 
> On the record, Pakistan has persistently criticized the United States' use of unmanned drones to attack militant hideouts in its mountainous border region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edition.cnn.com


It's just not the place .....

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## Bilal.

_Nabil_ said:


> It's just not the place .....


Read my post above.


----------



## _Nabil_

Arsalan890 said:


> Mods are on your side. you are assisted in this. They are deleting every reply of mine. I don't care what you think. you know nothing about Pakistan.


I'm also on your side, just gave you an advice.... Cool down bro

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## _Nabil_

Back to the Fun

European Defence Ministers meeting

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Joe Shearer

ziaulislam said:


> Informed?
> He is old guy living in 1960s
> Hell even if you live in 1980s..you will be outdated..
> 
> china was poorer then pakistan in 1980s..
> 
> The world has changed rapidly
> 
> Imagine a guy coming from 2010..he will not know most of the electronic and social media revolution..


Thanks, buddy.


mike2000 is back said:


> Ideally Russiaa goal is to annex parts of Ukraine into Russian federation just like crimea. However that will depends on how things play out and if everything goes according to Putin's plan. Things can be adjusted depending on the situation of the war. Russia's spy chief reveal this plan by a stroke of blunder. He seem so scared of Putin the he was stammering and forgot not to reveal such things publicly lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was hilarious 😂


WHAT A BUNGLING IDIOT!


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497209510523510786

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## Khanate

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497227786456649728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497232931940667396


----------



## Song Hong

Russian enter Kyiv.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497235734100516868

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497235559206604805

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497233845321711620

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497236553810300938

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497225449755263009


----------



## Joe Shearer

mike2000 is back said:


> Lol I asked a simple question about a statement you made about Britain ceeding territory to Russia, instead of answering my question politely they way I asked(politely) you just went on an angry rant about Britain and throwing insults up and down. Lol There are many countries who had to ceed their territory to Russia at one point in time(even your ally China had to ceed lots of her terroritory to the black bear) but Britain has never been part of this.
> 
> Your logic can be used against your own country Pakistan even more than britain as well. After all, Britain has been a great power and self sufficient one at that. We have some of the most advanced and biggest defence industries on earth. We can sustain our own against any big power if push comes to shoves. Its just that we don't face any any real immediate threat reason we can afford to lower our military to the levels we do today(personally I don't agree with this policy).
> However, your country pakistan is not the same, you barely have any industry to be honest and the one you do have is not really up to par by world standards, so in the event of a war protracted war you will need foreign support to keep your military machine going.
> 
> So in this regard we can also use your logic to say that if Russia was your neighbour then your entire nation probably won't even exist as Russia would have carved out your territory into several different parts more than anything India has been able to do(apart from Bengladesh they haven't been able to carve out more ).


Actually, except for a lunatic fringe, nobody wants to carve anything out of Pakistan. 

We didn't even particularly plan for carving out Bangladesh; it became inevitable, once the jailing of the entire political community happened, once civilian slaughter happened, once 10 million refugees surged across the borders with India. Since for nine months, they did not listen to appeal after appeal, there was literally nothing left to do.

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## Hassan Guy

The Baltics have borders with Russia, but it was cool for them to join NATO?


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497237296092962819

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497238042603659271

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## HAIDER

Party is over. But US or NATO has no interest in Ukraine.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497237584107425800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497237681427914757


----------



## The SC

thetutle said:


> Its not the Soviet Union that Russia wants, its the thing that came before it, the Russian empire. From kyrgistan to Moldova. from Crimea to Estonia. Russia feels robbed that all these people got their freedom. Or semi freedom. It wants them back to enslave them.


The green part of the map is the land of Russia only... As for the rest in yellow, they are lands that Russia occupied starting in 1553 AD to become the largest country in the world with an area of more than 17 million square kilometers. Most of these lands belonged to Muslim peoples before Russia invaded and occupied them and expelled their people, as it did with the Tatars and Circassians..

_Republic of Tatarstan

_Republic of Dagestan

_Republic of Chechnya

_Republic of Bashkortostan

_Siberian Khanate

_ Crimea before most of its Tatars were expelled

_ Circassia

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## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497235831391719427
Funny 🤣😁

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## baqai

mike2000 is back said:


> Ideally Russiaa goal is to annex parts of Ukraine into Russian federation just like crimea. However that will depends on how things play out and if everything goes according to Putin's plan. Things can be adjusted depending on the situation of the war. Russia's spy chief reveal this plan by a stroke of blunder. He seem so scared of Putin the he was stammering and forgot not to reveal such things publicly lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was hilarious 😂



thank you, you can take your seat now... wow


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497239871890628649

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497239727547863046


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497235734100516868

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## Areesh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497188337483980801

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## NA71

Iron Shrappenel said:


> Meri jaan Chacha knows what's at stake unlike Pakistani Roosi simps...


Nothing at stake.... Russians will get over it..... US can not stab Russia... They are not Afghanistan... Or Syria....

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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497224509698543617


----------



## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497235734100516868




That Russia hasn’t achieved air superiority is telling. Glaring capability gaps showing in Russian forces

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## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497209510523510786



can you imagine these guys up against a NATO army that retains secure command and control over its forces and has weapons at its disposal? Like some javelins or a drone overhead? 

Or imagine them against the US army. Goodness gracious me. It would not be pretty.

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## F-22Raptor

thetutle said:


> can you imagine these guys up against a NATO army that retains secure command and control over its forces and has weapons at its disposal? Like some javelins or a drone overhead?
> 
> Or imagine them against the US army. Goodness gracious me. It would not be pretty.



Big capability gaps are coming to light in Russian forces

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## Wergeland

Russia is always a surprise candy.

Looks fragile and weak.
Attracts scolding and west european invaders
Gets its act together and totally devastates its enemy.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497240135615791107

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497240392454004736


----------



## alimobin memon

Something is off, the russians are fighting and their convoys are moving so easily but entirely exposed as if they expect no retaliation. No cover while setting up aa or convoys are so exposed. Are these footages of some place else like of exercise but not real war footages ?

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## Daniel808

Ukraine Army getting mauled


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497213496907423750

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497199698096046080

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497242012592095238


----------



## Man of steel23

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23ukraynarusya&src=typeahead_click&f=live


----------



## Meengla

thetutle said:


> Its not the Soviet Union that Russia wants, its the thing that came before it, the Russian empire. From kyrgistan to Moldova. from Crimea to Estonia. Russia feels robbed that all these people got their freedom. Or semi freedom. It wants them back to enslave them.



I generally respect your opinion, but I doubt that's what Russia is trying to do. Wanting something but curbing that want because of your palpable limitations are two different things. 
The modern Russia is a greatly diminished force and I'd say would be reduced as a viable country of 'Russia' to only the region West of the Urals probably in our lifetime! Russia didn't agitate much when the Baltic USSR countries joined NATO. But Ukraine is a special case--and most of that is probably for some ego/historic reasons and so finally Putin couldn't take it anymore. 
Russia, as Putin himself put it today, is fighting for its life by taking this action. I don't see Russia has the resources to be anything more than a rump state west of the Urals going forward.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497234119750782977


----------



## TheNoob

thetutle said:


> can you imagine these guys up against a NATO army that retains secure command and control over its forces and has weapons at its disposal? Like some javelins or a drone overhead?
> 
> Or imagine them against the US army. Goodness gracious me. It would not be pretty.



Or maybe they're just receiving little to no resistance outside of the trenched pocket positions.


----------



## Daniel808

Russian have taken Melitopol Completely


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497142904040706048

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## NotSure

RescueRanger said:


> *This aircraft claimed to be a Russian aircraft downed last night in the centre of Kiev would upon closer examination appear to be an Ukranian Su 27*
> View attachment 818525
> 
> 
> View attachment 818526
> 
> View attachment 818527





F-22Raptor said:


> That Russia hasn’t achieved air superiority is telling. Glaring capability gaps showing in Russian forces


"US Official:" - Nuff said.

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## Khanate

Hassan Guy said:


> The Baltics have borders with Russia, but it was cool for them to join NATO?




It was a different time.




Areesh said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497188337483980801




Like I said yesterday, behind closed door serious questions are being asked about India and only a matter of time before it all becomes public.

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## khail007

Enigma SIG said:


> Oh my days!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497151176349003796



They are trolling Yanks ... !

Maybe you will see them, human rights champions in the coming decades.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497224856265531394


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497185527921090561


----------



## Pappa Alpha

nang2 said:


> I think that is a common mistake made by nostalgic folks who overestimate the glory of the long-gone past. *Yes, western colonists looted other countries relentlessly. But those countries weren't that rich, either.* Chinese often make such a mistake, too, and boast how big the GDP was before the western countries invaded, while completely ignore the fact that Chinese productivity back then was already way behind the western countries.


A thief doesn't enter a slum to loot.
China's GDP was in the top five if not top three during the 19th century. Stop this revisionist bullshit.

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## Patriot forever

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497235559206604805



That is just 50-60k troops at most.

That's is by no means an invasion force.

Only 60k against whole Ukrainian army?

Seems Russia intention is to destroy as much military infra/equipment as possible and get hold of strategic areas. Get to Kiev and lay siege to other important cities ( or whatever in military language) to intimidate and force Kiev to agree to Russian proposals.

1) Demilitarize ( a lot of it is already destroyed)
2) Agreement with Kiev to not join NATO.
3) Neutrality.

I guess the brutal part will come if Kiev does not agree.

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## The SC

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497224856265531394


If they join NATO..


----------



## The Eagle

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497214423756197889

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497241274793050115


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497244281236766720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497244249955475463

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497235910752149505

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497242820863692800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497242854665723919

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497242681529049118


----------



## baqai

Daniel808 said:


> Ukraine Army getting mauled
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497213496907423750
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497199698096046080



thanks DOTA2 for making me understand atleast the SO-KA/CYKA part

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## Brainsucker

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497241274793050115



Somebody said that Russian has taken Mariupol, but this tweet said that Russian is conducting Amphibious assault. Isn't that confusing?


----------



## Daniel808

Patriot forever said:


> That is just 50-60k troops at most.
> 
> That's is by means an invasion force.
> 
> Only 60k against whole Ukrainian army?
> 
> Seems Russia intention is to destroy as much military infra/equipment as possible and get hold of strategic areas. Get to Kiev and lay siege to other important cities ( or whatever in military language) to intimidate and force Kiev to agree to Russian proposals.
> 
> 1) Demilitarize ( a lot of it is already destroyed)
> 2) Agreement with Kiev to not join NATO.
> 3) Neutrality.



4) Hang Zelensky and US puppet agents

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497207378323853312

Yes, around 60-70k

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497235557315125249

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497242160961253382


----------



## Daniel808

Brainsucker said:


> Somebody said that Russian has taken Mariupol, but this tweet said that Russian is conducting Amphibious assault. Isn't that confusing?



Mariupol not yet


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497214653256118272

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497245687557156869

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497245716854579227


----------



## The SC

Brainsucker said:


> Somebody said that Russian has taken Mariupol, but this tweet said that Russian is conducting Amphibious assault. Isn't that confusing?


From West of Mariupol..as I understand it..


----------



## HAIDER

The Eagle said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497214423756197889


He will escape or surrender. Good luck to him. Wish he adopted the path of talk, avoid confronting a powerful neighbor. It's a lesson to all,, never trust anyone when national interest is in jeopardy ...

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## Man of steel23

Zelensky is going to join the fight seems like he wants to embrace martyrdom..

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497242112588488719
Zelensky to EU leaders: "This might be the last time you see me alive"

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## Patriot forever

The Eagle said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497214423756197889



Good riddance. Now he is crying in front of the same people who he got played by and destroyed his country in the process.

All the West must be laughing ( Biden was).

He does not know that such human rights or pleading bullshit is only used by the West when it wants to emotionally blackmail populace into supporting its intended war. They are the most brutal of the lot and will gladly hang him themselves and use his corpse to further their objectives.

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## LeGenD

Foinikas said:


> Man how did the Russians destroy the Ukrainian Air Defence so fast and so easily?


Russia took much time to prepare for this war + proximity factor.

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## mike2000 is back

baqai said:


> thank you, you can take your seat now... wow


That's what absolute power means. 😆😁

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497234734765780997


----------



## TNT

This is what happens when u elect a clown as your President. How naive are the ukranian people, they elected a clown who used to run a comedy show on TV. Well elect clowns and then watch ur country become a joke.

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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> I generally respect your opinion, but I doubt that's what Russia is trying to do. Wanting something but curbing that want because of your palpable limitations are two different things.
> The modern Russia is a greatly diminished force and I'd say would be reduced as a viable country of 'Russia' to only the region West of the Urals probably in our lifetime! Russia didn't agitate much when the Baltic USSR countries joined NATO. But Ukraine is a special case--and most of that is probably for some ego/historic reasons and so finally Putin couldn't take it anymore.
> Russia, as Putin himself put it today, is fighting for its life by taking this action. I don't see Russia has the resources to be anything more than a rump state west of the Urals going forward.



Its hard to predict the future of Russia. Russia under Yeltsin was heading for ruin. Putin revived it somehow, against all odds. and has since then been talking back territory. Russians are now in all soviet states except maybe kyrgsitan and the Baltics. If any of the "Stans" stop listening to Putin they will be invaded the same day. Just like this. 

Russia will keep expanding from now on. This is just the start. At some point the west will sabotage, sanction and degrade their industrial might. And the whole thing will break apart in a massive civil war where all the conquered nations will be free. this could take 50 years if the CIA starts getting busy right now. 

But make no mistake, territorial expansion and subjugation of others is their only plan.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## khail007

gambit said:


> You are correct about the rationale. No one wanted such threats to be so close to home soil.


Sir, better stick to such parts of your knowledgeable statements.



gambit said:


> But the problem for your argument is that NATO never considered Ukraine for membership from the time Russia made that *WRITTEN* promise not to violate Ukraine's sovereignty, and that Ukraine never hosted anyone. I am willing to predict that as time go by, it will be increasingly clear that Putin made up his rationale to break Russia's *WRITTEN* promise to Ukraine. Look at the social turmoil in Russia now.


This part of the statement, I already memorized and maybe most of the PDF members. Now, this does not seem to add up any significance to your statements.


----------



## Man of steel23

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497224856265531394



This.. I remember I was telling my friend russia will take out both if they join nato just 2 days ago and he was saying this is conspiracy theory yada yada


----------



## MilSpec

Vapnope said:


> @Joe Shearer @T90TankGuy @MilSpec gentlemen, i would like to read your take on this issue. Thanks in advance.


My views are marred with a lack of knowledge on the strategic implications of Russian actions for the region as a whole, as well as a lack of an understanding of Putin's security concerns.

And then there is the Indian foreign relation dilemma.

NATO's expansion in the backyard of Russia has been a concern for Putin for a long time, Ukraine letting itself be used as an expansion tool for Nato would have consequences and Ukraine was well aware of that. (remember Cuban missile crisis) But then Russia's action of the first annexation of Crimea and now this Ukraine crisis can be construed as belligerent.

As an Indian, for me, there is a sense of indebtedness to Russia as it has come to our aid in our time of need. whether it's developing strategic infrastructure, resupplying ammunition when we needed it the most, vetoing/voting for us in UNSC, as well as 71's 7th fleet debacle. When nobody stood with us Russia/USSR did, irrespective of their strategic/business motives and interests.

So the predicament for me really is, Russia is an Ally, whose actions on the surface seem belligerent and will cause tremendous human suffering. Its motives and rationale behind the actions are antithetical to my own worldview. That said, I do not want India to take any principled position that jeopardizes Indo-Russian relations in any way.

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## Daniel808

Looks like Russian Air Assault Brigade sparheaded the attacks, after that followed by their Armored Columns.
Brilliant tactic 👍 

Russian Troops entering Nikolayev City now

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497245976041562115
Nikolayev City location

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497242161754120194


----------



## Khanate

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497242012592095238




Kherson is one of the main breakouts and Russian forces have broken through but there is sustained fighting.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497233416949051393


----------



## QWECXZ

thetutle said:


> Its hard to predict the future of Russia. Russia under Yeltsin was heading for ruin. Putin revived it somehow, against all odds. and has since then been talking back territory. Russians are now in all soviet states except maybe kyrgsitan and the Baltics. If any of the "Stans" stop listening to Putin they will be invaded the same day. Just like this.
> 
> Russia will keep expanding from now on. This is just the start. At some point the west will sabotage, sanction and degrade their industrial might. And the whole thing will break apart in a massive civil war where all the conquered nations will be free. this could take 50 years if the CIA starts getting busy right now.
> 
> But make no mistake, territorial expansion and subjugation of others is their only plan.


Putin revived Russia's failing economy because the US was stupid enough to get involved in Afghanistan and Iraq and drive oil prices to above $100 per barrel. Russia is one of the leading energy exporters in the world and obviously this excess revenue revived the Russian economy.

It is the West that is shooting itself in the foot all the time. After all, all empires must end for some reason.

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## TheNoob

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497233416949051393



I believe you've posted that about... 4 times now.

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## beijingwalker

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497233416949051393


Russia almost took over the entire Ukraine in hours, it's mindblowing! if this is slow, I don't know what is fast...

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## nang2

Pappa Alpha said:


> A thief doesn't enter a slum to loot.
> China's GDP was in the top five if not top three during the 19th century. Stop this revisionist bullshit.


Slum is still highly profitable to loot. You can just loot the nobles and enslave the mass. Rich countries are hard to loot, even with sloppy defense, e.g. Carthage.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497239969202536452

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497245777147564033

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497248881498890251

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497248579311730690

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497248996942913542

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497202479720804356

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## QWECXZ

beijingwalker said:


> Russia almost took over the entire Ukraine in hours, it's mindblowing! if this is slow, I don't know what is fast...


Not entire Ukraine, only important parts of Eastern Ukraine and now they are fighting to invade the capital.

And it's even scarier when you realize that Russia is not using even 10% of its actual power. I mean Russia can mobilize 3 million troops (including reserved troops) and right now they are invading Ukraine with like 150,000 troops only. They are using only 15% of their active personnel and about 5% of their overall troops.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497249328217395200

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497242162412814337


----------



## Abid123

Foinikas said:


> Well yes,but still...
> 
> And where did all those Mig-29s and Su-27s go?


Maybe destroyed at the ground by Russian Kalibr cruise missiles.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497250493050986500

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497250575355826189

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497250292689248275


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497243265892253700

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497248238646304795


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497226248266858502

If Putin keeps up, he”ll be taught a lesson about the definition of superpower

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## CrazyZ

QWECXZ said:


> Putin revived Russia's failing economy because the US was stupid enough to get involved in Afghanistan and Iraq and drive oil prices to above $100 per barrel. Russia is one of the leading energy exporters in the world and obviously this excess revenue revived the Russian economy.
> 
> It is the West that is shooting itself in the foot all the time. After all, all empires must end for some reason.


I have earlier posts related to Afghanistan that mentioned Russia gained the most strategically with the USA quagmire in Afghanistan.....while not having to waste any blood or gold.

Honestly, USA would have been so much better off cutting a deal with Pakistan to clear AQ from Afghanistan then the regime change/occupation approach. It would have avoided quagmire and embarrassment in Afghanistan and Pakistan could have been controlled more easily then the other players. I argued as much to American friends at the start of WOT, but they would not listen. 

Taliban control Afghanistan today and there are not massive terror attacks against USA originating from Afghanistan. In hindsight, USA wasted 20 years on the WOT.


----------



## PakistaniFirst

I have been following this forum for a while now and reading all the replies. So what can Pakistan learn from this?
Well it is of utmost importance to have military independence. Donot rely on hardware from one country and donot expect someone to come to your aid.
If your conflict is with one of your neigbhors then it is must to have a strategic balance in conventional weapons capability.
As for who should we support? NO ONE. On moral grounds Russia is the aggressor here. If a soverign country wants to have an alliance then it should be allowed to make its own decision. Neither Russia nor west have any authority to dictate Ukraine's foreign policy.
Several of my Pakistani fellows are raising support here for russian action because of anti-American sentiment. Yes, USA has not been our most trust worthy ally but the fact is culturally we are more close to USA, many of Pakistani students study in USA and west and many pakistanis do job there.
Furthermore, russia is india's strategic ally and partner so i urge you before raising your support for Russia keep national interest and historical facts in mind.

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## Meengla

thetutle said:


> Russia will keep expanding from now on. This is just the start. At some point the west will sabotage, sanction and degrade their industrial might. And the whole thing will break apart in a massive civil war where all the conquered nations will be free. this could take 50 years if the CIA starts getting busy right now.
> 
> But make no mistake, territorial expansion and subjugation of others is their only plan.



No my friend. Even the United States, with twice (and a growing) population than Russia and being a Super Power doesn't see to territorial expansions. Russia, under the USSR and maybe under the Imperial Czar empire, had their day in the sun. At best Russia can remain a sovereign, prosperous and powerful state in the land to the west of the Urals. 


MilSpec said:


> So the predicament for me really is, Russia is an Ally, whose actions on the surface seem belligerent and will cause tremendous human suffering. Its motives and rationale behind the actions are antithetical to my own worldview. That said, I do not want India to take any principled position that jeopardizes Indo-Russian relations in any way.



You are being coy about it. Maybe the oldies Indians have some nostalgic attachment to Russia but younger Indians know that $$ and power lies in the West and the Middle East. India has paid hard cash for Russian help. There are not much of civilization ties just as there were not much between Pakistan and the West for most of Pakistan's history.

One day people are going to realize that deep down human ethnic, religious, and cultural connections are the main long term, sustainable connections. You'd never see the 'Anglos' fighting each other; on the contrary, like a pack of wolves, they coordinate in the kill. 

*But all these for another topic!!*

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## ZeEa5KPul

The Eagle said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497214423756197889


At this time, I feel the only appropriate reaction is the GenZer one:
😢😭 💔🕯️🙏

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## khail007

gambit said:


> Finland is now seriously considering NATO membership. Спасибо Russia.



You just trying to turn the ugly war uglier ... let people live, don't pursue them to be goats for an evil game of superpower's lust.


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

NA71 said:


> Nothing at stake.... Russians will get over it..... US can not stab Russia... They are not Afghanistan... Or Syria....
> View attachment 818589


You've totally gone out of perspective wrt what i meant with stake and for whom... It was meant for turkey and potentially Pakistan's stake... Russia's invasion of Ukraine will leave both without a potential strategic partner... Do you think the Russians would withdraw without severely crippling Ukrainian defense infrastructure... 
Here are some of the problems that would arise for Turkey.
> Loss of potential TFX engine partner
> Loss of T-929 engine partner
> Loss of IFV engine provider 
All these deals were of billions and most importantly countries with the infrastructure and willingness to help in the defense sector of Pakistan and Turkey...
Pakistan suffers in the following way
> Lack of spare parts of 6td2
> Lack of newer engines for New Al-Khalids
> Loss of partner for Al-Khalid 2 engine 
> Loss of 1400hp potential engine upgrade for Al-Khalid
> Failure to upgrade T-80UDs of Pak Army by Ukraine...
_________________________________________
So you tell me, What are those cheesy comments for ? And If he is pointing out the hypocrisy of the west .... Why are you snubbing him ? Remember, our relationship with Russia has just begun while that with Ukraine is older and time tested... The JF-17 engines we got from them is partly due to China's diplomacy and not just our own.. Thinking so would be overconfidence...
Clarification... This is not an Erdogan simp post (which it may seem to you).. this is totally looking at the long term goals and interests of Pakistan vis a vis Turkey... Hope you understand.

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## nang2

PakistaniFirst said:


> I have been following this forum for a while now and reading all the replies. So what can Pakistan learn from this?
> Well it is of utmost importance to have military independence. Donot rely on hardware from one country and donot expect someone to come to your aid.
> If your conflict is with one of your neigbhors then it is must to have a strategic balance in conventional weapons capability.
> As for who should we support? NO ONE. On moral grounds Russia is the aggressor here. If a soverign country wants to have an alliance then it should be allowed to make its own decision. Neither Russia nor west have any authority to dictate Ukraine's foreign policy.
> Several of my Pakistani fellows are raising support here for russian action because of anti-American sentiment. Yes, USA has not been our most trust worthy ally but the fact is culturally we are nore close to USA, many of Pakistani students study in USA and west and many pakistanis do job there.


When mistrust is abound, even forming an alliance is seen as an aggression. See how China will react when Taiwan and USA/Japan form an alliance. Therefore, it is naive to think that having an alliance is entirely an internal affair. The same misunderstanding is particularly popular in democratic countries where people naively think voting is just a personal affair. No, one person's vote affects everyone else!

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## Iron Shrappenel

The Eagle said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497214423756197889


I didn't like him but this is sad...

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## QWECXZ

CrazyZ said:


> I have earlier posts related to Afghanistan that mentioned Russia gained the most strategically with the USA quagmire in Afghanistan.....while not having to waste any blood or gold.
> 
> Honestly, USA would have been so much better off cutting a deal with Pakistan to clear AQ from Afghanistan then the regime change/occupation approach. It wouldn't avoided quagmire and embarrassment in Afghanistan and Pakistan could have been controlled more easily then the other players. I argued as much to American friends at the start of WOT, but they would not listen.
> 
> Taliban control Afghanistan today and there are not massive terror attacks against USA originating from Afghanistan. In hindsight, USA wasted 20 years on the WOT.


The US invaded Afghanistan to have military bases next to Iran and China, and steal their large mineral resources, among other reasons. The only problem is that the Americans are bad at geography and they didn't know that Afghanistan is a landlocked country and if you want to bark at its neighbors and have sour relations with them, you'll be left with no way to steal their resources. The US was already cockblocked by Iran to the west, Russia to the north and China to the east. And their anti-Muslim sentiments turned them so blind that they finally lost Pakistan to China with their arrogance, leaving them effectively engulfed by enemies in a landlocked country. They bled there for 20 years only to wake up some day and realize that it makes no sense to stay there when they cannot steal much from a war torn country like Afghanistan and they had to leave before they waste more money there.

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## ZeEa5KPul

baqai said:


> thanks DOTA2 for making me understand atleast the SO-KA/CYKA part


You don't BLYAT, the loveliest word ever created in any language?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497234734765780997


----------



## lastofthepatriots

https://imgur.com/a/K8xslYh

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## Khanate

thetutle said:


> Its hard to predict the future of Russia. Russia under Yeltsin was heading for ruin. Putin revived it somehow, against all odds. and has since then been talking back territory. Russians are now in all soviet states except maybe kyrgsitan and the Baltics. If any of the "Stans" stop listening to Putin they will be invaded the same day. Just like this.
> 
> Russia will keep expanding from now on. This is just the start. At some point the west will sabotage, sanction and degrade their industrial might. And the whole thing will break apart in a massive civil war where all the conquered nations will be free. this could take 50 years if the CIA starts getting busy right now.
> 
> But make no mistake, territorial expansion and subjugation of others is their only plan.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497128087414312960

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## PakistaniFirst

nang2 said:


> When mistrust is abound, even forming an alliance is seen as an aggression. See how China will react when Taiwan and USA/Japan form an alliance. Therefore, it is naive to think that having an alliance is entirely an internal affair. The same misunderstanding is particularly popular in democratic countries where people naively think voting is just a personal affair. No, one person's vote affects everyone else!


I agree that in todays world with new emerging Super Power China things are getting very complicated and thats why i used "on Moral Ground Russia is aggressor". And thats why i proposed some points in my post regarding national defence.


----------



## The Eagle

ZeEa5KPul said:


> At this time, I feel the only appropriate reaction is the GenZer one:
> 😢😭 💔🕯️🙏





Iron Shrappenel said:


> I didn't like him but this is sad...



Sad indeed as he was expecting lot of support. Pakistan has been through such series of promises and support coming the way.... learnt the hard way though.

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## Bleek

@F-22Raptor Is the F-35 still refuelling at Poland?

When can we expect it to do something useful...

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## Ahmad Saleem

It seems the easy part of the war is over. Eliminating Ukrainian military infrastructure in the open areas was easy but capturing the cities and urban center is not going as per plan. Russia seems to have no plan to capture them. After halted advances, they are now panicking and have increased their firepower. 

USA got choked in urban warfare in Iraq. Ukrainians are much better equipped and Russians are not that advanced. The bloody part of the war is just going to begin.


----------



## lastofthepatriots

https://imgur.com/a/2JG1ovr

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## Khanate

Iron Shrappenel said:


> You've totally gone out of perspective wrt what i meant with stake and for whom... It was meant for turkey and potentially Pakistan's stake... Russia's invasion of Ukraine will leave both without a potential strategic partner... Do you think the Russians would withdraw without severely crippling Ukrainian defense infrastructure...
> Here are some of the problems that would arise for Turkey.
> > Loss of potential TFX engine partner
> > Loss of T-929 engine partner
> > Loss of IFV engine provider
> All these deals were of billions and most importantly countries with the infrastructure and willingness to help in the defense sector of Pakistan and Turkey...
> Pakistan suffers in the following way
> > Lack of spare parts of 6td2
> > Lack of newer engines for New Al-Khalids
> > Loss of partner for Al-Khalid 2 engine
> > Loss of 1400hp potential engine upgrade for Al-Khalid
> > Failure to upgrade T-80UDs of Pak Army by Ukraine...
> _________________________________________
> So you tell me, What are those cheesy comments for ? And If he is pointing out the hypocrisy of the west .... Why are you snubbing him ? Remember, our relationship with Russia has just begun while that with Ukraine is older and time tested... The JF-17 engines we got from them is partly due to China's diplomacy and not just our own.. Thinking so would be overconfidence...
> Clarification... This is not an Erdogan simp post (which it may seem to you).. this is totally looking at the long term goals and interests of Pakistan vis a vis Turkey... Hope you understand.





War on Ukraine is a setback for Pakistan. No two ways about it.

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## Iron Shrappenel

The Eagle said:


> Pakistan has been through such series of promises and support coming the way.... learnt the hard way though.


.........وہ ہمسفر تھا مگر اُس سے ہمنوائی نہ تھی
Yes we have learned it the hard way.... Hope we don't make the same mistakes again... Nuclear deterrent is a blessing from God for Pakistan...

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## The SC

Conditions of Russia:

✅Disarm Ukraine and guarantee its neutral stance towards the Russians
✅Purification of Ukraine from Nazi nationalist ideology
✅ Installing a new pro-Russian government in Kiev, drawing up a new constitution, respecting the Russian minorities, recognizing Russian sovereignty over Crimea and the independence of the Luhansk and Donetsk People’s Republics
✅ Deployment of Russian peacekeeping forces to ensure security in Ukraine and to eliminate what remains of the Ukrainian Nazi nationalist movements
✅ The trial of Ukrainian political and military officials for committing war crimes against the people of Donbass and harming Russian citizens in the Donbass

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## QWECXZ

The SC said:


> Conditions of Russia:
> 
> ✅Disarm Ukraine and guarantee its neutral stance towards the Russians
> ✅Purification of Ukraine from Nazi nationalist ideology
> ✅ Installing a new pro-Russian government in Kiev, drawing up a new constitution, respecting the Russian minorities, recognizing Russian sovereignty over Crimea and the independence of the Luhansk and Donetsk People’s Republics
> ✅ Deployment of Russian peacekeeping forces to ensure security in Ukraine and to eliminate what remains of the Ukrainian Nazi nationalist movements
> ✅ The trial of Ukrainian political and military officials for committing war crimes against the people of Donbass and harming Russian citizens in the Donbass


Is it official? Source?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497250539595255812


QWECXZ said:


> Is it official? Source?


This is the ceiling of the demands

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## Khanate

QWECXZ said:


> Is it official? Source?




Putin

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497235770259746821


----------



## Daniel808

Kherson already liberated by Russian.

While their Air Assault Brigade now being deployed on the next target, Nikolayev.

While Ukraine also do the same


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497246222784110598

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497240686961336327


----------



## Khanate

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497232990728069134

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## Man of steel23

QWECXZ said:


> The US invaded Afghanistan to have military bases next to Iran and China, and steal their large mineral resources, among other reasons. The only problem is that the Americans are bad at geography and they didn't know that Afghanistan is a landlocked country and if you want to bark at its neighbors and have sour relations with them, you'll be left with no way to steal their resources. The US was already cockblocked by Iran to the west, Russia to the north and China to the east. And their anti-Muslim sentiments turned them so blind that they finally lost Pakistan to China with their arrogance, leaving them effectively engulfed by enemies in a landlocked country. They bled there for 20 years only to wake up some day and realize that it makes no sense to stay there when they cannot steal much from a war torn country like Afghanistan and they had to leave before they waste more money there.



China was irrelevant when the US entered AFG-war and Iran was more irrelevant nor do they view Iran as threat. Russia is far away from that area.. As crazy as it may sound they came into AFG believing the Taliban will become the next superpower to overthrow them.. I know this sounds fuking crazy but nonetheless the truth there was no stragetic upside to going in there but they have some folks who believe in prophecies amongst them hence chasing a dead-lead which could have been plented on purpose to lead them into nowhwere.. Nobody believes in that not even the Afghans themselves but that is why they came and desparately wasted 20 years but it was a dead-lead all along and once they figured that out they got out of there and losing 23-trillion USD in a wasteland

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## siegecrossbow

dBSPL said:


> An artistic work from Kharkov. (Unexploded Russian missile)
> 
> Here, the author emphasizes the complexity of the postmodern world.
> 
> Joking aside, Russia is hitting certain areas without making any distinction there are civilians or not.



Is this guy an idiot? It has a live warhead. Get the heck away from it!!!

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## Patriot forever

lastofthepatriots said:


> https://imgur.com/a/2JG1ovr



IMO just stupid people risking their lives.

Russia is not moving in to invade. Its just 60k soldiers in Ukraine. 2/3 of Russian estimated strength along the border is still at the border waiting for if the intimidation would work or not.

It just wants to enforce its demands of neutrality through intimidation. It is not looking for street to street fight in population centers with this little force in Ukraine. 

Its the West manipulating common folk to their end using preety girls and emotional cocktail on social media.

Talks are the only way forward, Ukrainian leadership should seriously put the selfie sticks down and think about their country not the western interests.

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## Enigma SIG

Patriot forever said:


> *Talks are the only way forward, Ukrainian leadership should seriously put the selfie sticks down and think about their country not the western interests.*


US likes to fight wars on Twitter. See how they instigated riots in Hong Kong.

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## RescueRanger

2 x USAF KC-135 Refuelers & 2 x NATO BOEING E-3 Sentry AWACS over Romanian Airspace. 
1 x USAF Global Hawk UAV over the Black Sea.

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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497227583569764360

DPR Forces

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497219431923077123


----------



## mike2000 is back

Bleek said:


> @F-22Raptor Is the F-35 still refuelling at Poland?
> 
> When can we expect it to do something useful...


Ahahahahah...I must admit that got me laughing hard. 🤣


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497237185560563714


----------



## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497195169808064515

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497145614974525443


----------



## Meengla

Ahmad Saleem said:


> It seems the easy part of the war is over. Eliminating Ukrainian military infrastructure in the open areas was easy but capturing the cities and urban center is not going as per plan. Russia seems to have no plan to capture them. After halted advances, they are now panicking and have increased their firepower.
> 
> USA got choked in urban warfare in Iraq. Ukrainians are much better equipped and Russians are not that advanced. The bloody part of the war is just going to begin.



Maybe. But lest we forget, less than 10 years ago there was a pro-Russian leader ruling Ukraine. So there was enough of pro Russian sentiments in Ukraine then and I'd find it hard to believe they all vanished permanently. Never estimate how quickly people turn from cheering to jeering to cheering to jeering crowds as armies walk into their cities!!




Khanate said:


> War on Ukraine is a setback for Pakistan. No two ways about it.



I don't know. Pakistan's position is neutral. As is India's. 
But on the whole a Russian supremacy in Ukraine would mean China's strengthening of global position-- and that can't be bad for Pakistan at least in the short term.

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## mike2000 is back

The SC said:


> Conditions of Russia:
> 
> ✅Disarm Ukraine and guarantee its neutral stance towards the Russians
> ✅Purification of Ukraine from Nazi nationalist ideology
> ✅ Installing a new pro-Russian government in Kiev, drawing up a new constitution, respecting the Russian minorities, recognizing Russian sovereignty over Crimea and the independence of the Luhansk and Donetsk People’s Republics
> ✅ Deployment of Russian peacekeeping forces to ensure security in Ukraine and to eliminate what remains of the Ukrainian Nazi nationalist movements
> ✅ The trial of Ukrainian political and military officials for committing war crimes against the people of Donbass and harming Russian citizens in the Donbass


Sounds alot like the conditions Hitler was giving European countries prior to invasion, knowing fully well that it was impossible for any sovereign country to agree to such conditions. 🤣🤣

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496555981677154306


----------



## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> Big capability gaps are coming to light in Russian forces


You are so full of shit at times 😂

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## Ahmad Saleem

Meengla said:


> Maybe. But lest we forget, less than 10 years ago there was a pro-Russian leader ruling Ukraine. So there was enough of pro Russian sentiments in Ukraine then and I'd find it hard to believe they all vanished permanently. Never estimate how quickly people turn from cheering to jeering to cheering to jeering crowds as armies walk into their cities!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know. Pakistan's position is neutral. As is India's.
> But on the whole a Russian supremacy in Ukraine would mean China's strengthening of global position-- and that can't be bad for Pakistan at least in the short term.


Pakistan was pro taliban, pro usa, things change quickly and no citizen will be pro russian at this moment.


----------



## Enigma SIG

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496555981677154306


Senile President does it again!









U.S. Officials Repeatedly Urged China to Help Avert War in Ukraine


Americans presented Chinese officials with intelligence on Russia’s troop buildup in hopes that President Xi Jinping would step in, but were repeatedly rebuffed.




www.nytimes.com

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## The SC

mike2000 is back said:


> Sounds alot like the conditions Hitler was giving European countries prior to invasion, knowing fully well that it was impossible for any sovereign country to agree to such conditions. 🤣🤣


Ukraine is pro-West..their president is still calling Europe and the US to allow it to join NATO..Putin wants a radical solution to that ..he wants Ukraine at least neutral..


----------



## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497237149682339842


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496014116758163458

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497249549718544387

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496781175633117193


----------



## Patriot forever

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497145614974525443



Remember how tomahawk missile barrages were celebrated on TV ( like fireworks) in the iraqi quest by Indian Jones in his search for WMD's.

I was too young at that time and was glued to TV watching it all live.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497263432428666891

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## Abid123

Russia must capture Kiev within a week.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497172149160787968


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497266678601859081

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497266803214532609

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## Gripen9

gambit said:


> But Russia made a *WRITTEN* promise, witnessed by countries, that Russia will not attack Ukraine. You did not know that?


Can you share more details about this pact? What was the Ukrainian commitment? Did they not abide by it?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497261094385209356

Russia does not have the military capability to subdue Ukraine

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## RescueRanger

Finally managed to track down a working CB frequency from Kiev:






Audio file is included below, excuse the poor quality my capture card is rubbish:





__





SndUp | Post info


Record, upload, share! SndUp is a social network, for audio! We enable you to upload audio clips and share them with the world. Sharing your talent is simple!



sndup.net

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## Khanate

Russian psyops:

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## Wergeland

Man of steel23 said:


> China was irrelevant when the US entered AFG-war and Iran was more irrelevant nor do they view Iran as threat.



Why would America occupy a nation bordering both China and Iran, well over 20 years, when its goal of destroying Al Qaeda could easily be achieved with other means than military occupation?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497177201053212682


----------



## Wergeland

Khanate said:


> Russian psyops:
> 
> View attachment 818617
> 
> 
> View attachment 818618



Cant be true, last i heard Seagal was a Police officer somewhere midwest.


----------



## Daniel808

😅


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497266331795668994

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497268475030642688


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497265699324055552

Russia set for a mass war crime campaign, due to its inability to strike with precision.

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## RescueRanger

Wergeland said:


> Cant be true, last i heard Seagal was a Police officer somewhere midwest.


*Was a police officer, he is now a Russian Citizen and as of August 2021 lives in Moscow.








Hollywood actor Steven Seagal joins pro-Kremlin party


Martial arts enthusiast and Putin admirer proposes crackdown on businesses that harm the environment




www.theguardian.com

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## HAIDER

Gripen9 said:


> Can you share more details about this pact? What was the Ukrainian commitment? Did they not abide by it?


Under what condition those promises were made by Russia... must be something on Ukraine's end too ??


----------



## Wergeland

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496555981677154306



This war was over the moment USA decided to not support Ukraine militarily.

Really!? did anyone excpect world second largest military power to not win this easily? Knowing that Ukraine has no significant geographical advantage or that Ukrainians and Russians are culturally the same people.

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## Enigma SIG

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497266803214532609


If I ever have a reason not to stop at a red light, this is it!


----------



## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497265699324055552
> 
> Russia set for a mass war crime campaign, due to its inability to strike with precision.


Ohhhhhg damn almost like the US in Fallujah in 2004 where they used White phosphorus which killed hundreds of civillians

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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497269596675612672

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## khansaheeb

8888888888888 said:


> Ukraine threaten to join Nato so....


Russia joins NATO at the border!

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497268693432078338


----------



## Tamerlane

Daniel808 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497178570547994645



Very impressive soldiers. Because of low birth rates in Russia there is a shortage of military age ethnic Russians. Muslims are 10-15% of Russian's population but they make up a much larger proportion of young people. It was estimated that at some point a majority of Russian soldiers will be Muslim. Being aware of this the Russians slowed down recruiting Muslims. 

Russia plays down the number of Muslims in the country. Officially it is 9 million, US estimates 14 million but the Grand Mufti of Russia (religious head) says that it is 25 million. Figures for what percentage of the Russian military are currently Muslim are hard to find. But I would guess it would be at least 25%.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497107662944845846


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497270216191000588

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## Wergeland

RescueRanger said:


> *Was a police officer, he is now a Russian Citizen and as of August 2021 lives in Moscow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollywood actor Steven Seagal joins pro-Kremlin party
> 
> 
> Martial arts enthusiast and Putin admirer proposes crackdown on businesses that harm the environment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com



Always knew Americans were somwhat eccentric but geez…

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## Khanate

Meengla said:


> I don't know. Pakistan's position is neutral. As is India's.
> But on the whole a Russian supremacy in Ukraine would mean China's strengthening of global position-- and that can't be bad for Pakistan at least in the short term.




Ukraine has been a reliable defence partner to Pakistan. This war will decimate Ukrainian military industrial complex. Not to mention, besiege the seaports Ukraine used for trade which played a role in PA modernisation efforts.

Can PA overcome it? Possibly but the loss of many decades long defence partner will create hurdles.

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## HAIDER



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## Enigma SIG

Khanate said:


> Ukraine has been a reliable defence partner to Pakistan. This war will decimate Ukrainian military industrial complex. Not to mention, besiege the seaports Ukraine used for trade which played a role in PA modernisation efforts.
> 
> Can PA overcome it? Possibly but the loss of a many decades long defence partner will create hurdles.


Maybe Khan was a step ahead and negotiated uninterrupted supplies from those captured factories. Putin probably promised the goods will flow.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497256694191202304

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495153462761476102

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## Wergeland

Khanate said:


> Ukraine has been a reliable defence partner to Pakistan. This war will decimate Ukrainian military industrial complex. Not to mention, besiege the seaports Ukraine used for trade which played a role in PA modernisation efforts.
> 
> Can PA overcome it? Possibly but the loss of a many decades long defence partner will create hurdles.



It depends on how comitted Russia is to fulfill Ukrainian defence contracts. Now that Russo-Pakistani relations are warmer it could be positive for Pakistan as whole.

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## HAIDER

Enigma SIG said:


> Maybe Khan was a step ahead and negotiated uninterrupted supplies from those captured factories. Putin probably promised the goods will flow.


Pakistan already switched to Chinese. Some of MOU signed in 2017 are still pending. Nothing has been moved.

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## R Wing

Huffal said:


> Ohhhhhg damn almost like the US in Fallujah in 2004 where they used White phosphorus which killed hundreds of civillians



Or the thousands of civilians killed in drone strikes... or the Western bombs that massacre civilians in Yemen in the hands of Saudi/UAE, etc. 

Amazing hypocrisy.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497266678601859081


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

Enigma SIG said:


> Maybe Khan was a step ahead and negotiated uninterrupted supplies from those captured factories. Putin probably promised the goods will flow.


A very tall order on such a short notice

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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495153462761476102


*Lol why share a tweet from 19th Feb on the 25th of Feb? *

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## Enigma SIG

Iron Shrappenel said:


> A very tall order on such a short notice


The world is weird right now.

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## WinterFangs

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497265076834734082
A lot ghost of keiv rumours busted, I don’t know why people are believing such claims, I understand it’s a symbol of hope, but I’d rather have hope that’s real than false hope.

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## RescueRanger

WinterFangs said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497265076834734082
> A lot ghost of keiv rumours busted, I don’t know why people are believing such claims, I understand it’s a symbol of hope, but I’d rather have hope that’s real than false hope.


Because when people are desperate they seek heroes!

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497270335443378179

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497274090947858433


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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497270335443378179

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## The SC

RescueRanger said:


> *Lol why share a tweet from 19th Feb on the 25th of Feb? *


Because the whole West was arming Ukraine explicitly.. It might have ringed a bell with Russia to invade Ukraine..

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## Great Janjua

Ukraine, what a gorgeous country getting toppled by a lunatic to East Putin has lost his mind let Ukraina live. Glory to Ukraina a heaven in its own right.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497130905088974884

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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> Because the whole West was arming Ukraine explicitly.. It might have ringed a bell with Russia to invade Ukraine..


They were arming Ukraine because intelligence was telling them the Russia was planning to invade since the 6th of February. 









Russia has enough troops ready to take Kyiv, says former Ukraine defence chief


White House believes Moscow has amassed at least 70% of firepower needed for mid-February invasion




www.theguardian.com

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497275902518046723

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## Great Janjua

What Nato has to do is provide the Ukrainians with lethal weapons and equipment this has to be priority number 1 in the grand scheme of things.

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## The SC

RescueRanger said:


> They were arming Ukraine because intelligence was telling them the Russia was planning to invade since the 6th of February.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has enough troops ready to take Kyiv, says former Ukraine defence chief
> 
> 
> White House believes Moscow has amassed at least 70% of firepower needed for mid-February invasion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com


That is true ..but Russia didn't accept it.. hence the invasion.. and Ukraine is on its own ..

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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> That is true ..but Russia didn't accept it.. hence the invasion.. and Ukraine is on its own ..


No, that is not the premise for the invasion, the invasion is more to do with how cozy Ukraine was becoming with NATO, not the weapons supply.

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## QWECXZ

Great Janjua said:


> What Nato has to do is provide the Ukrainians with lethal weapons and equipment this has to be priority number 1 in the grand scheme of things.


What NATO has to do is give Ukraine back the 1,700 nuclear warheads that it voluntarily gave up for them to guarantee her sovereignty.

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## Great Janjua

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1495153462761476102


The more the merrier.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497142318083805184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497142424681988097

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497142519691464706

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497143302856097794

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497143480610607104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497143574948888579

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## Patriot forever

The SC said:


> Because the whole West was arming Ukraine explicitly.. It might have ringed a bell with Russia to invade Ukraine..



Everyone knows the game played. 

They were testing Russian resolve, will Russia let it go like other NATO expansion. 

They were preemptive deliberate actions of deterrence to Russia and on the other hand threatening it with sanctions if it tried to interfere with the planned approval of Ukraine to join NATO. They had all the pieces with the new elected comedian the last missing piece. 

The cost to Russian security calculus was too great to simply ignore it.

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## RescueRanger

These four photos appear to show Ukrainian volunteers being equipped and trained to fight Russian forces.

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## Trango Towers

Daniel808 said:


> The Only Good NAZIS is a Dead one.
> Those NAZIS wanabee would face Chechen Battle Hardened troops.
> 
> On the way to Mariupol at this moment to fight Azov Batallion stationed there
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497178570547994645


Nit happy musl


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497235734100516868





Iron Shrappenel said:


> You've totally gone out of perspective wrt what i meant with stake and for whom... It was meant for turkey and potentially Pakistan's stake... Russia's invasion of Ukraine will leave both without a potential strategic partner... Do you think the Russians would withdraw without severely crippling Ukrainian defense infrastructure...
> Here are some of the problems that would arise for Turkey.
> > Loss of potential TFX engine partner
> > Loss of T-929 engine partner
> > Loss of IFV engine provider
> All these deals were of billions and most importantly countries with the infrastructure and willingness to help in the defense sector of Pakistan and Turkey...
> Pakistan suffers in the following way
> > Lack of spare parts of 6td2
> > Lack of newer engines for New Al-Khalids
> > Loss of partner for Al-Khalid 2 engine
> > Loss of 1400hp potential engine upgrade for Al-Khalid
> > Failure to upgrade T-80UDs of Pak Army by Ukraine...
> _________________________________________
> So you tell me, What are those cheesy comments for ? And If he is pointing out the hypocrisy of the west .... Why are you snubbing him ? Remember, our relationship with Russia has just begun while that with Ukraine is older and time tested... The JF-17 engines we got from them is partly due to China's diplomacy and not just our own.. Thinking so would be overconfidence...
> Clarification... This is not an Erdogan simp post (which it may seem to you).. this is totally looking at the long term goals and interests of Pakistan vis a vis Turkey... Hope you understand.


Russians are not stupid. The name Ukraine will remain. They will allow the infrastructure and industry to continue. They will monitor it ofcourse. Money is money


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496873114336124933

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## Trango Towers

lastofthepatriots said:


> https://imgur.com/a/2JG1ovr


What happed to the Ukraine army and the 1000s of anti tank weapons


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497143763990372353

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497143878360739840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497144068178128900

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497144257219641346

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497144417374908419

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497144780358365185

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## Great Janjua

If Nato can provide weapons and other equipment at a promising momentum the invasion will be bogged down. Nato cannot be slacking in Providence of equipment it would be nothing short of treachery, forget the rest. An ample amount of equipment is needed.

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## Trango Towers

The Eagle said:


> Sad indeed as he was expecting lot of support. Pakistan has been through such series of promises and support coming the way.... learnt the hard way though.


This is a lesson for everyone. When war comes you are alone. There is no brothers friends or ummah. There is just you and the almighty.

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## RescueRanger

Starobelsk, Luhansk region, after the Russian shelling:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497121097048903682

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497163558555353088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497278650772770816

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497278708058632202

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## RescueRanger

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497278708058632202


*Or they can just siege the city? *

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## Great Janjua

Trango Towers said:


> This is a lesson for everyone. When war comes you are alone. There is no brothers friends or ummah. There is just you and the almighty.


Nato of course will not intervene as Russia is a nuclear power that alone is a solid deterrent. But this should not cause any shyness in terms of weapon and equipment providence to Ukraine.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497258005955547143

Polish resupply convoys heading to Ukraine.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497280896415719426


----------



## nufix

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497143763990372353
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497143878360739840
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497144068178128900
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497144257219641346
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497144417374908419
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497144780358365185



Russian morale is low, Russian tanks obliterated, Russian this, Russian that and yet Russia keeps advancing towards Kyiv and taking over cities.

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## coffee_cup

I hope, Russia wont follow NATO footsteps and start carpet bombing weddings, hospitals, kindergartens, funerals and then threatening anyone who questions those responsible for heinous war crimes.

May the sanity prevails and peace returns!

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## RescueRanger

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497258005955547143
> 
> Polish resupply convoys heading to Ukraine.


Keeping GLOCs open on the Western border of Ukraine will be vital for Ukraine, the Turkish will never block Russian access to the Black Sea and most of the ALOCs are already compromised. Therefore the border with Poland will be an essential life line.

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## Messerschmitt

Great Janjua said:


> Nato of course will not intervene as Russia is a nuclear power that alone is a solid deterrent. But this should not cause any shyness in terms of weapon and equipment providence to Ukraine.


NATO will not intervene in Ukraine because Ukraine is not a NATO member state.


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## Wergeland

Great Janjua said:


> Nato of course will not intervene as Russia is a nuclear power that alone is a solid deterrent. But this should not cause any shyness in terms of weapon and equipment providence to Ukraine.



HOW would you want NATO to supply weapons when Russia has Air supremacy?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497280296248496133


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## nufix

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497278708058632202



With so many civilians being turned to combatants, there is no stopping the Russian to just flatten the city.

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## F-22Raptor

nufix said:


> Russian morale is low, Russian tanks obliterated, Russian this, Russian that and yet Russia keeps advancing towards Kyiv and taking over cities.



You clearly don't have a clue what your talking about. Emotional smart a** replies won't get you anywhere.

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## khail007

Patriot forever said:


> Those are not scribbling but the actual words spoken during negotiations. ( The actual writing of the conversation in real time, the guy with the notepad in every meeting writing down as words are spoken) not the made up articles churned up by western media with the intent to erase the history to justify western actions.
> 
> The calculus and every other treaty changed when NATO expanded against the legitimate rationale of the Russians ( who believed that NATO expansion is already agreed upon).
> 
> Again you are the professional here. Being an expert you know and can enlighten others as well the severe compromise from a Russian defense point of view regarding crimea and in general Ukraine. If NATO expands into Ukraine it directly threatens Russian heartland not to mention the Russian navy.



Ignore him.
He deliberately deflects, when he could not answer then starts twisting the words to confuse. Most of his posts included the same copy past.
Don't know what kind of professionalism he is showing here? Most are propaganda, as per his DP, only protecting the scoundrel role of the USA in every part of the world. Somebody should tell him that he is not from State Department or he is?
Previously they just butchered red-Indians, and then kids with the help of NATO and UN umbrella. You could not find them on the real grounds when some real power stands against them, as they did with Ukraine. Their days are over.

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## RescueRanger

Trango Towers said:


> What happed to the Ukraine army and the 1000s of anti tank weapons


NLAWs are state of the art equipment worth 20,000 GBP a pop, they are reserved for the professional fighters of the Ukrainian military, the conscripts and volunteers will use good old petrol bombs!

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## nufix

F-22Raptor said:


> You clearly don't have a clue what your talking about. Emotional smart a** replies won't get you anywhere.



Oh you have a clue? Based on what? twitter posts? Wake up dude, I am not even pro Russia but I am getting tired of being bombarded by sheitty twitter copy paste posts

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497282601521926145


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## Trango Towers

RescueRanger said:


> NLAWs are state of the art equipment worth 20,000 GBP a pop, they are reserved for the professional fighters of the Ukrainian military, the conscripts and volunteers will use good old petrol bombs!


Point is. Where are the Ukrainian military

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## PaklovesTurkiye

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497225921128022019


----------



## Khanate

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497187499386540033

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497258980040589313

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## RescueRanger

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497282601521926145



Tank stoppers work well in trenches and urban serpentines. Open areas like this can just be avoided, but I really like the fight the Ukrainian's have put up! There is a lesson in this for other nations!



Trango Towers said:


> Point is. Where are the Ukrainian military


Actively fighting. Lets not be so quick to sully the sacrifice of brave men defending their homeland.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497280401001234433

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497282258566275077

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## FairAndUnbiased

nang2 said:


> Slum is still highly profitable to loot. You can just loot the nobles and enslave the mass. Rich countries are hard to loot, even with sloppy defense, e.g. Carthage.



This is factually untrue. Nazi Germany extracted $26 billion in value from western Europe but only $1 billion from the Soviet Union.





__





Soviet partisans - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





It was ez pz for Nazi Germany to steal from Netherlands, Denmark and Norway, all of which were richer than Germany even back then.


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## F-22Raptor

Huffal said:


> Shut the hell up, you are a bullshitting hypocrite shedding crocodile tears for Ukraine.
> 
> Also most of the stuff you link is horseshit.



Someone is emotional.... Stick to Call of Duty


----------



## khansaheeb

Video shows explosion after fighter jet shot down, official says - CNN Video


A Ukrainian Sukhoi Su-27 fighter jet was shot down over Kyiv early Friday, Ukrainian Deputy Interior Minister Evgeny Yenin tells CNN's Matthew Chance.




www.cnn.com


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497283822014111758

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497268084243144708

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## Man of steel23

Here is what is gonna happen in the short term future.. A prediction that I am certain off.

Finland and Sweden will get invaded before mid-2030 or 2031

Something interesting to note invading both countries is much much easier then Ukraine even both at the same time compared to Ukraine there will be little to no resistance once the Russians roll in tanks especially in Sweden's case I would say 100% Sweden will surrender and just let them advance in.

Finland may fight but only little.

How do I know this invasion will happen and why am I so certain of it.. If Putin was not invading Ukraine today and his hands were not tied down with Ukraine he would have been invading Finland and Sweden right now as we speak but once this Ukraine chapter ends by 2030 Finland and Sweden will be invaded instilling pro-kremlin regimes there.

The reason for the invasion is stragetic because Finland ordered weeks ago a whopping 64 F-35 fighter jets that will be delivered before the end of 2030s which automatically raised a red-flag in Moscow what are you going to do with that many US fighters while having the largest border in Europe with Russia? Then few days ago Finland said they will join NATO due to Ukraine invasion leading to Russia replying today that if it happens we will take action..

But regardless whether it happens or not Russia will take action post-ukraine issues when it settles down or even if the Russian economy worsens then before it even reaches 2030 both countries could get raided and Combined they are just 15m while Ukraine is 40m and not even remotely as difficult as Ukraine it will become one of the easiest conquests in European history aside from Germany's conquest of Denmark back in 1939 who surrendered but I am confident that Sweden will 100% surrender once the Russians roll in..

Russia can't afford to let Finland be used against it much like it didn't want to let Ukraine be used against them and that includes also Sweden due to the baltic sea.







-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Russia Issues Ominous Warning to Finland, Sweden Should They Join NATO​BY GERRARD KAONGA ON 2/25/22 AT 11:35 AM EST

"Finland and Sweden should not base their security damaging the security of other countries," Zakharova said during the press conference.

"Clearly [the] accession of Finland and Sweden into NATO, which is first and foremost a military alliance, would have serious military-political repercussions that would demand a response from our country," she said.










Russia Issues Ominous Warning to Finland, Sweden Should They Join NATO


Ukraine's president confirmed that both countries had offered their support in the fight against Russia.




www.newsweek.com

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## Iron Shrappenel

Trango Towers said:


> Russians are not stupid.


Most definitely Russians are not stupid which makes the rest of your explanation questionable.... In light of the current developments... NATO will most definitely impose sanctions on Russia and Pro Russo Ukrainian govt. Keeping that in mind the co-operation between us and Ukraine would not be as smooth....
In case of partition... The majority of industrial cities and states are either in control (kharkiv armored vehicles and aviation) ( Zaporizhzhia engines etc) or will be in control (kyiv aviation ) (Mariupol shipbuilding).... This would leave Ukraine with little to no defense industry.... In a way "demilitarizing" Ukraine for good....


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497283343972388865

China is now backtracking


----------



## RescueRanger

Live Kiev webcams:

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## PakAlp

The SC said:


> The situation on the ground now:
> 
> View attachment 818561



Looks like Russia is taking everything East from the river and then cut off Ukraine to the black sea.

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## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> Someone is emotional.... Stick to Call of Duty


Oh shut up. According to you and your bakwas random twitter sources, russia has suddenly lost all its fighting forces and all its jets are being shot down. 

But what we see is the exact opposite. Ukraine is being wiped out by the russian bombings. All the UAF interceptions have proven to be failures, as it has not once deterred the Russians from conducting anymore.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497280172894134273


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497285087041257474


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497284778252451842

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497286508868423686


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## F-22Raptor

Huffal said:


> Oh shut up. According to you and your bakwas random twitter sources, russia has suddenly lost all its fighting forces and all its jets are being shot down.
> 
> But what we see is the exact opposite. Ukraine is being wiped out by the russian bombings. All the UAF interceptions have proven to be failures, as it has not once deterred the Russians from conducting anymore.




Ukraine is not being wiped out. In fact, Russia doesn't control any major population centers yet, and half of Ukraine hasn't even been touched. I've said from the beginning Russia has superior forces to Ukraine and this is about making it as painful as possible for Putin and Russia. So far, Russia is proving to have serious gaps in its military forces and is a massive intelligence coup for the US.

I have little time for smart *** replies from armchair generals that don't have a clue what their talking about.

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## nang2

FairAndUnbiased said:


> This is factually untrue. Nazi Germany extracted $26 billion in value from western Europe but only $1 billion from the Soviet Union.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soviet partisans - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was ez pz for Nazi Germany to steal from Netherlands, Denmark and Norway, all of which were richer than Germany even back then.


Nazi Germany barely occupied Soviet and looting takes time, especially if you have to acquire wealth through enslavement.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497287321842073611

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497286194698207234

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497287233900105731

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497287747601670144


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## nang2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497283343972388865
> 
> China is now backtracking


It is called lip service.

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## S.Y.A

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497285087041257474


were the Ukrainians sleeping for the past 7 years? what use will those AD systems be of now? any shipment that gets flown in will be tracked and the system will be destroyed. they assumed that nothing will happen, they underestimated putin's ego, and now they are paying the price. were there no intel assets that can warn them of probable axes of attacks? were there no military posts, mines, bunkers etc. on the borders to slow down the advance? and most importantly, whey did not build up their airforce?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497286709993639936


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## Foinikas

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraine is not being wiped out. In fact, Russia doesn't control any major population centers yet, and half of Ukraine hasn't even been touched. I've said from the beginning Russia has superior forces to Ukraine and this is about making it as painful as possible for Putin and Russia. So far, Russia is proving to have serious gaps in its military forces and is a massive intelligence coup for the US.
> 
> I have little time for smart *** replies from armchair generals that don't have a clue what their talking about.


The Russians don't want to wipe out Ukraine. They want to unite with Ukraine again or at least to have a pro-Russian leader installed again.

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## nang2

S.Y.A said:


> were the Ukrainians sleeping for the past 7 years? what use will those AD systems be of now? any shipment that gets flown in will be tracked and the system will be destroyed. they assumed that nothing will happen, they underestimated putin's ego, and now they are paying the price. were there no intel assets that can warn them of probable axes of attacks? were there no military posts, mines, bunkers etc. on the borders to slow down the advance? and most importantly, whey did not build up their airforce?


Keep in mind that Ukraine isn't very united country.

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## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraine is not being wiped out. In fact, Russia doesn't control any major population centers yet, and half of Ukraine hasn't even been touched. I've said from the beginning Russia has superior forces to Ukraine and this is about making it as painful as possible for Putin and Russia. So far, Russia is proving to have serious gaps in its military forces and is a massive intelligence coup for the US.
> 
> I have little time for smart *** replies from armchair generals that don't have a clue what their talking about.


Calls me armchair general but believes the armchair generals on twitter. Ok you hypocite.

Russias aim is to wipe out Ukraines military and its industry to the point where they are nothing. Thats whats been happening for the past day. Weve seen entire convoys of Ukrainian tanks, AFV, APC, logis etc being wiped out. Their air force has been reduced to a mere whisper in the sky, and many of Ukraines major cities are either under siege or have been taken by Russia. Russia is literally in Kiev as we speak. Wtf are you talking about? You using the same source which said Russia doesnt have air superiority 😂

Go back to mcdonalds fatty

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497289268175192070


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## iLION12345_1

Khanate said:


> Ukraine has been a reliable defence partner to Pakistan. This war will decimate Ukrainian military industrial complex. Not to mention, besiege the seaports Ukraine used for trade which played a role in PA modernisation efforts.
> 
> Can PA overcome it? Possibly but the loss of many decades long defence partner will create hurdles.


Ukrainian defense industry has unfortunately become a bad joke in the last decade, Pakistan has tried its best to get away from it with moderate success, they were having trouble delivering even the most basic of stuff like minor components for their T80 tanks, Pakistan had to localize most of it. Now we’re moving away from Ukrainian engines in tanks (thankfully, because they’re not that good). This won’t really effect Pakistan much because of how much they’ve transitioned to China. If there’s any gaps left, maybe Russia can fill them, it’ll be more than happy to given how cash strapped they are themselves, however india will remain a hurdle in that regard. Hopefully this will also push some more localization out of our industries.

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## RealNapster

Europeans these days










Акцент | Hello guys! ⠀ Do you want to sound more Russian 🇷🇺? Here you go😉 ⠀ Russian accent or русский акцент! ⠀ 1️⃣ О, which is not stressed, becomes A. 2️⃣ TH... | By Speechkah | Facebook


1.1M views, 15K likes, 2.6K loves, 2.3K comments, 9K shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Speechkah: Hello guys! ⠀ Do you want to sound more Russian 🇷🇺? Here you go😉 ⠀ Russian accent or русский акцент!...




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## Man of steel23

Man of steel23 said:


> Here is what is gonna happen in the short term future.. A prediction that I am certain off.
> 
> Finland and Sweden will get invaded before mid-2030 or 2031
> 
> Something interesting to note invading both countries is much much easier then Ukraine even both at the same time compared to Ukraine there will be little to no resistance once the Russians roll in tanks especially in Sweden's case I would say 100% Sweden will surrender and just let them advance in.
> 
> Finland may fight but only little.
> 
> How do I know this invasion will happen and why am I so certain of it.. If Putin was not invading Ukraine today and his hands were not tied down with Ukraine he would have been invading Finland and Sweden right now as we speak but once this Ukraine chapter ends by 2030 Finland and Sweden will be invaded instilling pro-kremlin regimes there.
> 
> The reason for the invasion is stragetic because Finland ordered weeks ago a whopping 64 F-35 fighter jets that will be delivered before the end of 2030s which automatically raised a red-flag in Moscow what are you going to do with that many US fighters while having the largest border in Europe with Russia? Then few days ago Finland said they will join NATO due to Ukraine invasion leading to Russia replying today that if it happens we will take action..
> 
> But regardless whether it happens or not Russia will take action post-ukraine issues when it settles down or even if the Russian economy worsens then before it even reaches 2030 both countries could get raided and Combined they are just 15m while Ukraine is 40m and not even remotely as difficult as Ukraine it will become one of the easiest conquests in European history aside from Germany's conquest of Denmark back in 1939 who surrendered but I am confident that Sweden will 100% surrender once the Russians roll in..
> 
> Russia can't afford to let Finland be used against it much like it didn't want to let Ukraine be used against them and that includes also Sweden due to the baltic sea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Russia Issues Ominous Warning to Finland, Sweden Should They Join NATO​BY GERRARD KAONGA ON 2/25/22 AT 11:35 AM EST
> 
> "Finland and Sweden should not base their security damaging the security of other countries," Zakharova said during the press conference.
> 
> "Clearly [the] accession of Finland and Sweden into NATO, which is first and foremost a military alliance, would have serious military-political repercussions that would demand a response from our country," she said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Issues Ominous Warning to Finland, Sweden Should They Join NATO
> 
> 
> Ukraine's president confirmed that both countries had offered their support in the fight against Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newsweek.com



Also I forgot to add once you border Russia and they deny you NATO membership you are definitely getting invaded by them period.. 

Georgia - 2008 (Russia created two proxy states inside the country as sovereign states outside of the government meaning georgia is defacto partition into 3 government) 

Moldova - Russia invaded and created another defacto state out of Moldova now having 2 states

Ukraine - invaded 3 times first Crimea followed by Donbass and now 

Finland - 2030+ Regime change + including permanent Russian military bases

Sweden - 2030+ Surrender + including permanent Russian military bases


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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497243365326401536

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## Iron Shrappenel

The goal is the partition of Ukraine with maximum advantage to the Pro Russian states including maximum coastal area... As per tweets posted above they are crippling north western areas such as the kiev powerplant... Basically dividing the country into east and west ukraine with east Ukraine acting as a buffer state...

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497290383423852545


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## The SC

S.Y.A said:


> were the Ukrainians sleeping for the past 7 years? what use will those AD systems be of now? any shipment that gets flown in will be tracked and the system will be destroyed. they assumed that nothing will happen, they underestimated putin's ego, and now they are paying the price. were there no intel assets that can warn them of probable axes of attacks? were there no military posts, mines, bunkers etc. on the borders to slow down the advance? and most importantly, whey did not build up their airforce?


They have a fairly well equipped armed forces (with Soviet era weapons though)..they needed more modern weapons. but the west who is crying now was providing them with bits..nothing serious..ATGMs lately but not much more.. The mine question is strange to say the least.. they could have used that..at least....I guess they were overconfident with befriending the US and NATO..Putin must have seen that overconfidence..that's why he spoke about nukes at once.. depriving Ukraine from the direct support by its "friends"..

*The fact that they have Soviet era weapons (modernized to some extent) makes it difficult to assess who's equipment was destroyed according to the tweets..

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## nang2

Iron Shrappenel said:


> The goal is the partition of Ukraine with maximum advantage to the Pro Russian states including maximum coastal area... As per tweets posted above they are crippling north western areas such as the kiev powerplant... Basically dividing the country into east and west ukraine with east Ukraine acting as a buffer state...


East Ukraine, along with Kiev, will be called "Ukraine" with all the usual Ukraine fascade. A new country, "West Ukraine", would be allowed to join NATO. Feel like east/west Germany.

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## Iron Shrappenel

nang2 said:


> East Ukraine, along with Kiev, will be called "Ukraine" with all the usual Ukraine fascade. A new country, "West Ukraine", would be allowed to join NATO. Feel like east/west Germany.


Naming is totally upto them I'm only speculating as to the best of my comprehension.


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## khansaheeb

Man of steel23 said:


> Here is what is gonna happen in the short term future.. A prediction that I am certain off.
> 
> Finland and Sweden will get invaded before mid-2030 or 2031
> 
> Something interesting to note invading both countries is much much easier then Ukraine even both at the same time compared to Ukraine there will be little to no resistance once the Russians roll in tanks especially in Sweden's case I would say 100% Sweden will surrender and just let them advance in.
> 
> Finland may fight but only little.
> 
> How do I know this invasion will happen and why am I so certain of it.. If Putin was not invading Ukraine today and his hands were not tied down with Ukraine he would have been invading Finland and Sweden right now as we speak but once this Ukraine chapter ends by 2030 Finland and Sweden will be invaded instilling pro-kremlin regimes there.
> 
> The reason for the invasion is stragetic because Finland ordered weeks ago a whopping 64 F-35 fighter jets that will be delivered before the end of 2030s which automatically raised a red-flag in Moscow what are you going to do with that many US fighters while having the largest border in Europe with Russia? Then few days ago Finland said they will join NATO due to Ukraine invasion leading to Russia replying today that if it happens we will take action..
> 
> But regardless whether it happens or not Russia will take action post-ukraine issues when it settles down or even if the Russian economy worsens then before it even reaches 2030 both countries could get raided and Combined they are just 15m while Ukraine is 40m and not even remotely as difficult as Ukraine it will become one of the easiest conquests in European history aside from Germany's conquest of Denmark back in 1939 who surrendered but I am confident that Sweden will 100% surrender once the Russians roll in..
> 
> Russia can't afford to let Finland be used against it much like it didn't want to let Ukraine be used against them and that includes also Sweden due to the baltic sea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Russia Issues Ominous Warning to Finland, Sweden Should They Join NATO​BY GERRARD KAONGA ON 2/25/22 AT 11:35 AM EST
> 
> "Finland and Sweden should not base their security damaging the security of other countries," Zakharova said during the press conference.
> 
> "Clearly [the] accession of Finland and Sweden into NATO, which is first and foremost a military alliance, would have serious military-political repercussions that would demand a response from our country," she said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Issues Ominous Warning to Finland, Sweden Should They Join NATO
> 
> 
> Ukraine's president confirmed that both countries had offered their support in the fight against Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newsweek.com





Man of steel23 said:


> Here is what is gonna happen in the short term future.. A prediction that I am certain off.
> 
> Finland and Sweden will get invaded before mid-2030 or 2031
> 
> Something interesting to note invading both countries is much much easier then Ukraine even both at the same time compared to Ukraine there will be little to no resistance once the Russians roll in tanks especially in Sweden's case I would say 100% Sweden will surrender and just let them advance in.
> 
> Finland may fight but only little.
> 
> How do I know this invasion will happen and why am I so certain of it.. If Putin was not invading Ukraine today and his hands were not tied down with Ukraine he would have been invading Finland and Sweden right now as we speak but once this Ukraine chapter ends by 2030 Finland and Sweden will be invaded instilling pro-kremlin regimes there.
> 
> The reason for the invasion is stragetic because Finland ordered weeks ago a whopping 64 F-35 fighter jets that will be delivered before the end of 2030s which automatically raised a red-flag in Moscow what are you going to do with that many US fighters while having the largest border in Europe with Russia? Then few days ago Finland said they will join NATO due to Ukraine invasion leading to Russia replying today that if it happens we will take action..
> 
> But regardless whether it happens or not Russia will take action post-ukraine issues when it settles down or even if the Russian economy worsens then before it even reaches 2030 both countries could get raided and Combined they are just 15m while Ukraine is 40m and not even remotely as difficult as Ukraine it will become one of the easiest conquests in European history aside from Germany's conquest of Denmark back in 1939 who surrendered but I am confident that Sweden will 100% surrender once the Russians roll in..
> 
> Russia can't afford to let Finland be used against it much like it didn't want to let Ukraine be used against them and that includes also Sweden due to the baltic sea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Russia Issues Ominous Warning to Finland, Sweden Should They Join NATO​BY GERRARD KAONGA ON 2/25/22 AT 11:35 AM EST
> 
> "Finland and Sweden should not base their security damaging the security of other countries," Zakharova said during the press conference.
> 
> "Clearly [the] accession of Finland and Sweden into NATO, which is first and foremost a military alliance, would have serious military-political repercussions that would demand a response from our country," she said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Issues Ominous Warning to Finland, Sweden Should They Join NATO
> 
> 
> Ukraine's president confirmed that both countries had offered their support in the fight against Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newsweek.com


The bear is getting wild:-​







Russia threatens 'serious military repercussions' if Finland joins NATO


Russian Foreign Ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova said Finland's accession to NATO could 'have detrimental consequences'.




uk.news.yahoo.com



Russia threatens 'serious military repercussions' if Finland joins NATO​
James Morris
·Freelance news writer, Yahoo UK
Fri, 25 February 2022, 8:38 am·3-min read






Vladimir Putin's Russia today warned of 'serious military and political repercussions' if Finland joins NATO. (AFP via Getty Images)
Russia has warned of "serious military and political repercussions" if Finland joins Nato amid the Ukraine crisis.
Russian Foreign Ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova said the country's accession to Nato, the military alliance currently made up of 28 European countries plus the US and Canada, could "have detrimental consequences".
Following Russia's invasion of Ukraine this week, Finnish prime minister Sanna Marin said the debate surrounding Finland's membership of NATO "will change".
Asked about this on Friday, Zakharova began with a veiled warning.




Russian Foreign Ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova warned of 'detrimental military consequences' if Finland joins NATO. (Reuters)
In translated remarks at a press conference, she said: "The Finnish government's policy of military non-alliance is an important factor in ensuring security and stability in northern Europe.
"At the same time, we cannot help but note the targeted efforts of Nato and other members of this alliance to involve Finland as well as Sweden [a fellow non-member] in this alliance."
She said "the intensity of practical interaction between Helsinki and Stockholm with Nato" is "nothing new".
*Watch: Volodymyr Zelensky announces death toll from first day of Russian invasion of Ukraine*


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She claimed "they have conducted NAato's military exercises - these countries have provided territory for such manoeuvres of this military alliance.
"We have seen this policy over a number of years... and Finland and Sweden should not base their security on damaging security of other countries. Their accession to Nato can have detrimental consequences... and face military and political consequences."




Sanna Marin said the debate surrounding Finland's NATO membership has changed following Russia's invasion of Ukraine. (Getty Images)
A follow-up tweet from the Russian Foreign Ministry read: "Finland’s accession to Nato would have serious military and political repercussions."
Prime minister Marin previously said last month it is "very unlikely" Finland - which borders Russia - would apply for a Nato membership during her current term of office.
*Read more: **Ukrainian reporter sees footage of destroyed flat on live TV: ‘This building is my home’*
"All in all, I believe the Nato discussion will increase in the coming years," she had told Reuters.
On Thursday, Nato secretary-general Jens Stoltenberg said that he "values the close partnership" with Finland and Sweden even if they are not members.
"This is a question of self-determination and the sovereign right to choose your own path and then potentially in the future, also to apply for Nato membership."
Putin’s invasion of Ukraine has seen Kyiv hit by air strikes, with fighting closing in on the capital.
Families were forced to hide in bomb shelters and subway stations as troops continued their assault in a bid to seize the city.
Tens of thousands of people have fled Ukraine's major cities to try and escape the fighting, with the UN warning on Friday that millions could be displaced.
Armed forces minister James Heappey told MPs that 194 Ukrainians, including 57 civilians, are confirmed to have died.
*Watch: Russia invasion of Ukraine 'not as successful as planned', says UK defence minister*













Russia invasion of Ukraine 'not as successful as planned', says defence minister​UK defence minister James Heappey has told the Commons that Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has so far not been as successful as planned. He also answered a question on the likelihood of the UK instituting a no-fly zone on Ukraine.

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## Faqirze

Kiev will fall soon, is Russia planning to do a full blown occupation of Ukraine? What are they trying to gain from this?

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## RescueRanger

RealNapster said:


> Europeans these days
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Акцент | Hello guys! ⠀ Do you want to sound more Russian 🇷🇺? Here you go😉 ⠀ Russian accent or русский акцент! ⠀ 1️⃣ О, which is not stressed, becomes A. 2️⃣ TH... | By Speechkah | Facebook
> 
> 
> 1.1M views, 15K likes, 2.6K loves, 2.3K comments, 9K shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Speechkah: Hello guys! ⠀ Do you want to sound more Russian 🇷🇺? Here you go😉 ⠀ Russian accent or русский акцент!...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fb.watch


*Embarrassment! *

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## nufix

F-22Raptor said:


> Someone is emotional.... Stick to Call of Duty



You sure? You are the one that has been posting emotion-filled personal "opinions" from twitter which are more like rants actually.

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## Awan68

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497143763990372353
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497143878360739840
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497144068178128900
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497144257219641346
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497144417374908419
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497144780358365185


For fucks sake, this idiot abviously is hurling diahera out of both ends, russian troops are green?, reluctance to dismount AFV's, lol, who does he think he's kidding, 2 yr olds..... He probably believes WW2 was won after D Day and not the siege of Stalingrad, hollywood GI JOE wannabe.

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## jamal18

S.Y.A said:


> were the Ukrainians sleeping for the past 7 years? what use will those AD systems be of now? any shipment that gets flown in will be tracked and the system will be destroyed. they assumed that nothing will happen, they underestimated putin's ego, and now they are paying the price. were there no intel assets that can warn them of probable axes of attacks? were there no military posts, mines, bunkers etc. on the borders to slow down the advance? and most importantly, whey did not build up their airforce?



1. Conscripting _all_ men between 20-60 yrs. Can you train and equip that many? And what use is a 60 yr old?

2. Handing out weapons to civilians? Untrained people being thrown into a war. No good for anything. State sponsored suicide.

3. Sophisticated weapons being flown in from abroad? How are you going to train their crews and integrate them into the military plan? 

I said before, there is an element of desperation. Lack of planning and foresight.

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## khansaheeb

Faqirze said:


> Kiev will fall soon, is Russia planning to do a full blown occupation of Ukraine? What are they trying to gain from this?


Russia is just facilitating an easy invasion of Taiwan by China. With NATO busy in the West, China will have little resistance to taking Taiwan.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497290037922353168

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497292299323199493

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## TNT

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497130905088974884


Very stupid and irresponsible of the govt. If civilians attack a russian convoy with Molotov cocktails, it wont do much damage but the Russians will then turn towards the residential buildings and flatten them. This clown President is not only a clown but a really stupid one too.

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## jamal18

nang2 said:


> East Ukraine, along with Kiev, will be called "Ukraine" with all the usual Ukraine fascade. A new country, "West Ukraine", would be allowed to join NATO. Feel like east/west Germany.



I don't think any part of the Ukraine will be allowed to be part of Nato. That is the entire point of this endeavor.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497292698436337664


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## QWECXZ

Foinikas said:


> I don't know if you guys mentioned this earlier,but they say a Ukrainian Mig-29 pilot shot down a Russian Su-35.
> 
> They call him the "Ghost of Kiev".











Is This 'Ghost of Kyiv' Video Real?


The "Ghost of Kyiv" may be real, but this video is not.




www.snopes.com


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## Patriot forever

nufix said:


> You sure? You are the one that has been posting emotion-filled personal "opinions" from twitter which are more like rants actually.



He is trying to make sure Ukrainians fight to the last soul to achieve western objective. 

I just feel sorry for the Ukrainians going through a needless war just so that the West can install NATO bases at Russian border.


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## Wergeland

Man of steel23 said:


> Also I forgot to add once you border Russia and they deny you NATO membership you are definitely getting invaded by them period..
> 
> Georgia - 2008 (Russia created two proxy states inside the country as sovereign states outside of the government meaning georgia is defacto partition into 3 government)
> 
> Moldova - Russia invaded and created another defacto state out of Moldova now having 2 states
> 
> Ukraine - invaded 3 times first Crimea followed by Donbass and now
> 
> Finland - 2030+ Regime change + including permanent Russian military bases
> 
> Sweden - 2030+ Surrender + including permanent Russian military bases



Finland and Sweden? Never. 
Wont be a single russian military base there.
Russian has no plans for that either.

Sweden is not a small kid. It has a solid Army with its own hardware.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497291764717305865

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497292799879700480


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## jamal18

TNT said:


> Very stupid and irresponsible of the govt. If civilians attack a russian convoy with Molotov cocktails, it wont do much damage but the Russians will then turn towards the residential buildings and flatten them. This clown President is not only a clown but a really stupid one too.


Molotov cocktails? We are bordering on the absurd.

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## RescueRanger

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497292698436337664


That was a mistake on the part of Whitehall, lets see how this plays out.


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## nufix

Patriot forever said:


> He is trying to make sure Ukrainians fight to the last soul to achieve western objective.
> 
> I just feel sorry for the Ukrainians going through a needless war just so that the West can install NATO bases at Russian border.



Exactly what Mearsheimer told us a while ago. US and the West are pushing Ukraine to play though with the Russian and are making Ukraine think they will soon join NATO.


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## Iron Shrappenel

iLION12345_1 said:


> Ukrainian defense industry has unfortunately become a bad joke in the last decade, Pakistan has tried its best to get away from it with moderate success, they were having trouble delivering even the most basic of stuff like minor components for their T80 tanks, Pakistan had to localize most of it. Now we’re moving away from Ukrainian engines in tanks (thankfully, because they’re not that good). This won’t really effect Pakistan much because of how much they’ve transitioned to China. If there’s any gaps left, maybe Russia can fill them, it’ll be more than happy to given how cash strapped they are themselves, however india will remain a hurdle in that regard. Hopefully this will also push some more localization out of our industries.


India may not be hurdle anymore as Russia has shown interest in supplying equipment to Pakistan... The question is would it supply parts for our indigenous programs like engines for our tanks etc.... Moreover the sanctions part you have not covered... Russia will be sanctioned to the brim and all acquisition from them will be pretty risky. In case of move to Chinese engines. It may require major refitting for existing tanks.... An opportunity could be reverse engineering Ukrainian engines, considering the sad state of affairs of Ukraine at the moment....


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## Man of steel23

Wergeland said:


> Finland and Sweden? Never.
> Wont be a single russian military base there.
> Russian has no plans for that either.
> 
> Sweden is not a small kid. It has a solid Army with its own hardware.



Sweden is a pacifist country and it's army is really poor besides the swedes are risk-averse.. They will not fire one bullet towards a major Russian convoy column coming from the north towards the Swedish capital.. I could bet the house on that..

Russia does have interest in both countries and hack I could even see it happening in less then 5 years if Russia's economy worsens due to sanctions and they could be used as scapgoat against the sanctions if sanctions is not lifted they will use both as bargaining chip but either way Russia will make sure to ethablish military bases and regime change in Finland

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497251507850334208


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## Foinikas

QWECXZ said:


> Is This 'Ghost of Kyiv' Video Real?
> 
> 
> The "Ghost of Kyiv" may be real, but this video is not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.snopes.com


Oh thanx man. 

It looks so real!

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497294413218959365


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## Basel

dBSPL said:


> The sanctions package on the table:
> 
> 
> Interruption of internet access in Russia
> Cutting electrical lines to EU
> Replacing railway shears
> Exclusion of Russia from the swift system
> Cancellation of licenses of companies affiliated with Russia
> Blocking of offshore assets
> Freight prices will go crazy



In response Russia can go into more Eastern European countries to create some sort of USSR type state.


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## RescueRanger

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497294413218959365


This must be a much earlier video, its night time in Kiev.


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## OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ

Iron Shrappenel said:


> You've totally gone out of perspective wrt what i meant with stake and for whom... It was meant for turkey and potentially Pakistan's stake... Russia's invasion of Ukraine will leave both without a potential strategic partner... Do you think the Russians would withdraw without severely crippling Ukrainian defense infrastructure...
> Here are some of the problems that would arise for Turkey.
> > Loss of potential TFX engine partner
> > Loss of T-929 engine partner
> > Loss of IFV engine provider
> All these deals were of billions and most importantly countries with the infrastructure and willingness to help in the defense sector of Pakistan and Turkey...
> Pakistan suffers in the following way
> > Lack of spare parts of 6td2
> > Lack of newer engines for New Al-Khalids
> > Loss of partner for Al-Khalid 2 engine
> > Loss of 1400hp potential engine upgrade for Al-Khalid
> > Failure to upgrade T-80UDs of Pak Army by Ukraine...
> _________________________________________
> So you tell me, What are those cheesy comments for ? And If he is pointing out the hypocrisy of the west .... Why are you snubbing him ? Remember, our relationship with Russia has just begun while that with Ukraine is older and time tested... The JF-17 engines we got from them is partly due to China's diplomacy and not just our own.. Thinking so would be overconfidence...
> Clarification... This is not an Erdogan simp post (which it may seem to you).. this is totally looking at the long term goals and interests of Pakistan vis a vis Turkey... Hope you understand.



You have identified the problems correctly however, this is how geopolitics works. Ukraine was not able to protect itself... the fact that Russia has been able to obliterate Ukrainian defenses with such disdain shows one thing... It(Russia) was in fact sanctioning or permitting Ukrainian independence... hyphenated as it may have been. However, it was Ukrainian belligerence and change of orbit in to a western security alliance, specifically a defensive one but martial none the less, while simultaneously being expansionist as well.
Is anyone here realistically considering the security ramifications for Russia, by having a major bordering state in either a hostile or even reticent security alliance?

That being said, historically whenever an advanced defense or technologically developed state unraveled it's most prized possessions were it's engineers, project managers and scientists. If Turkiye or Pakistan see any benefit, and want to invest... then invest on the people and knowledge not it's byproduct...

One ship has sailed ... what are you going to do about it is the question.

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## Abid123

Wergeland said:


> It has a solid Army with its own hardware.


It has a solid army compared to most countries. It stands no chance against Russia.


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## Wergeland

Man of steel23 said:


> Sweden is a pacifist country and it's army is really poor besides the swedes are risk-averse.. They will not fire one bullet towards a major Russian convoy column coming from the north towards the Swedish capital.. I could bet the house on that..
> 
> Russia does have interest in both countries and hack I could even see it happening in less then 5 years if Russia's economy worsens due to sanctions and used as scapgoat against the sanctions if sanctions is not lifted they will use both as bargaining chip



Its allowed to think that things are like that. 
Problem is that all of it is fantasy.

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## Oublious

The SU35 video is fake but ther is certainly in a video a fighter blown up in the sky so the SU35 might be true. For now the Russian invasion is a fiasco, you would say they would use ther airforce full potentially with 50 to 100 fighters bombing and securing the sky with awacs. They are not capable to make no fly zone above Ukrain. Thats say much about current Russian technology.

Sorry it will turn in a second syria for them.

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## The SC

TNT said:


> Very stupid and irresponsible of the govt. If civilians attack a russian convoy with Molotov cocktails, it wont do much damage but the Russians will then turn towards the residential buildings and flatten them. This clown President is not only a clown but a really stupid one too.


They are talking about a resistance city war where they can bleed the Russian troops..but as you said the response might be too violent to deal with..as civilians will be bombed.. which Russia was avoiding so far..


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## jamal18

nufix said:


> Exactly what Mearsheimer told us a while ago. US and the West are pushing Ukraine to play though with the Russian and are making Ukraine think they will soon join NATO.


Please give a link to Mearsheimer.


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## Wergeland

Abid123 said:


> It has a solid army compared to most countries. It stands no chance against Russia.



If Finland and Sweden is attacked, Scandinavia, UK, Germany, Poland, US and France will support them. No doubt. With not only gear and weapons, but with boots on the ground.

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## Ali_Baba

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497224856265531394



Based on the performance of Russian forces, I dont think Sweden or Finland would be that worried. Impressive against Ukraine who has nothing - but Sweden and Finland have very professional armed forces who know what they are doing.

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## RescueRanger

Don't expect anything concrete to come from the UNSC briefing in the next 10 mins.


----------



## Khanate

RT: German spy chief evacuated from Ukraine – reports​



TNT said:


> Very stupid and irresponsible of the govt. If civilians attack a russian convoy with Molotov cocktails, it wont do much damage but the Russians will then turn towards the residential buildings and flatten them. This clown President is not only a clown but a really stupid one too.




How does one know if Russian saboteurs won't call to mislead them.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

mike2000 is back said:


> Sounds alot like the conditions Hitler was giving European countries prior to invasion, knowing fully well that it was impossible for any sovereign country to agree to such conditions. 🤣🤣



Hitler didn't make demands much after 1939. He just attacked Poland, France, Netherlands, Belgium and Soviets with no warning.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Wergeland said:


> If Finland and Sweden is attacked, Scandinavia, UK, Germany, Poland, US and France will support them. No doubt. With not only gear and weapons, but with boots on the ground.



I expect there will be a defense treaty with the UK / Sweden / Finland and USA v.v.v.v. soon - one that bypasses the NATO onboarding process as that takes so long and there are to many veto's there.

People made a mistake with not supporting Ukraine and Ukraine made a mistake by not recognising and actually preparing for risks she faces - but that mistake wont be made again.

Will the Ruskies want to go up against the UK or USA / Swedes and FInish with their soviet era junk ?


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

You know the whole history repeats first as tragedy, then as farce? Well, the original Volkssturm at least had Panzerschrecks. The cheap Ukrainian Volkssturm has Molotov cocktails to throw at tanks. 


Oublious said:


> Sorry it will turn in a second syria for them.


You mean a war where they achieve complete victory and explode a refugee bomb into their enemies' faces? Excellent.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

nang2 said:


> Nazi Germany barely occupied Soviet and looting takes time, especially if you have to acquire wealth through enslavement.



Nazi Germany occupied almost entire European Soviet Union for years. They were able to enslave millions.


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

mike2000 is back said:


> Sounds alot like the conditions Hitler was giving European countries prior to invasion, knowing fully well that it was impossible for any sovereign country to agree to such conditions. 🤣🤣


Well, Ukraine's problem is that its already beaten. How long it wants to keep taking punches to the head is up to it. It can do it the easy way or the hard way, but the outcome will be the same.

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## The SC

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Nazi Germany occupied almost entire European Soviet Union for years. They were able to enslave millions.


And they didn't even have nukes..just imagine if they did..


----------



## Man of steel23

Wergeland said:


> Its allowed to think that things are like that.
> Problem is that all of it is fantasy.



This is not thinking brother but real ground reality and this was what Russia's spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said today in a press-con.

*"Clearly [the] accession of Finland and Sweden into NATO, which is first and foremost a military alliance, would have serious military-political repercussions that would demand a response from our country," she said.*









Russia Issues Ominous Warning to Finland, Sweden Should They Join NATO


Ukraine's president confirmed that both countries had offered their support in the fight against Russia.




www.newsweek.com


----------



## Primus

Foinikas said:


> I don't know if you guys mentioned this earlier,but they say a Ukrainian Mig-29 pilot shot down a Russian Su-35.
> 
> They call him the "Ghost of Kiev".


DCS world. Thats fake af


----------



## CrazyZ

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Well, Ukraine's problem is that its already beaten. How long it wants to keep taking punches to the head is up to it. It can do it the easy way or the hard way, but the outcome will be the same.


Agreed. Its best for Ukraine to negotiate a cease fire.


----------



## nang2

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Nazi Germany occupied almost entire European Soviet Union for years. They were able to enslave millions.


Comparing to the conquest on the western front, occupying Soviet happened not only later but Soviet never surrendered. I am pretty sure you can do the math yourself.


----------



## Wergeland

Ali_Baba said:


> I expect there will be a defense treaty with the UK / Sweden / Finland and USA v.v.v.v. soon - one that bypasses the NATO onboarding process as that takes so long and there are to many veto's there.
> 
> People made a mistake with not supporting Ukraine and Ukraine made a mistake by not recognising and actually preparing for risks she faces - but that mistake wont be made again.
> 
> Will the Ruskies want to go up against the UK or USA / Swedes and FInish with their soviet era junk ?



If Russia couldnt occupy Finland and Sweden during the heydays of Russian Empire and Soviet Union, it has no chance today.

I believe Finland wont join NATO, neither will Sweden. They will remain neutral. Russia has no plans for invasion either. It just dont want the to become NATO members.

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## nufix

jamal18 said:


> Please give a link to Mearsheimer.


Here you go:






Perhaps for others who didnt know who he is. He is the father (or one of the fathers) of the neorealism school of thought.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497298677462933508


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## Iron Shrappenel

OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ said:


> You have identified the problems correctly however, this is how geopolitics works. Ukraine was not able to protect itself... the fact that Russia has been able to obliterate Ukrainian defenses with such disdain shows one thing... It(Russia) was in fact sanctioning or permitting Ukrainian independence... hyphenated as it may have been. However, it was Ukrainian belligerence and change of orbit in to a western security alliance, specifically a defensive one but martial none the less, while simultaneously being expansionist as well.
> Is anyone here realistically considering the security ramifications for Russia, by having a major bordering state in either a hostile or even reticent security alliance?
> 
> That being said, historically whenever an advanced defense or technologically developed state unraveled it's most prized possessions were it's engineers, project managers and scientists. If Turkiye or Pakistan see any benefit, and want to invest... then invest on the people and knowledge not it's byproduct...
> 
> One ship has sailed ... what are you going to do about it is the question.


At this point talking what Ukraine could have done is beyond me... I can't be bothered with it... What I am bothered about is it's implications on Pakistan that I have posted... A good start could be reverse engineering.. most Ukrainian scientists would be on the run right now... It should be the mission of both govts to shelter as many as possible. Use them in our National projects... The US and Europe have almost no use for them be it because of naivety or any other reason.. while it could be very beneficial to us. Even these scientists hired as deans of universities could be of so much use to us....

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## FairAndUnbiased

nang2 said:


> Comparing to the conquest on the western front, occupying Soviet happened not only later but Soviet never surrendered. I am pretty sure you can do the math yourself.



They occupied west for 1 more year but extracted 26x higher value.


----------



## nang2

Wergeland said:


> If Russia couldnt occupy Finland and Sweden during the heydays of Russian Empire and Soviet Union, it has no chance today.
> 
> I believe Finland wont join NATO, neither will Sweden. They will remain neutral. Russia has no plans for invasion either. It just dont want the to become NATO members.


I think current talks from Russian side are mostly smoke. The purpose is to distract and confound. Only after the battle subsides, the talks become serious.


----------



## QWECXZ

Wergeland said:


> If Russia couldnt occupy Finland and Sweden during the heydays of Russian Empire and Soviet Union, it has no chance today.
> 
> I believe Finland wont join NATO, neither will Sweden. They will remain neutral. Russia has no plans for invasion either. It just dont want the to become NATO members.


Finland was part of Russia for about a century.


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## Man of steel23

Wergeland said:


> If Russia couldnt occupy Finland and Sweden during the heydays of Russian Empire and Soviet Union, it has no chance today.
> 
> I believe Finland wont join NATO, neither will Sweden. They will remain neutral. Russia has no plans for invasion either. It just dont want the to become NATO members.



Imho both have breached the treeshold of what Russia considers a hostile element and regardless Russia will seek regime change especially in Finland but there is no rush atleast 5-10 years could pass before that occurs..

Both Georgia, Moldova or Ukraine never joined NATO but still got invaded multiple times because they were to close to the west


----------



## siegecrossbow

Khanate said:


> Ukraine has been a reliable defence partner to Pakistan. This war will decimate Ukrainian military industrial complex. Not to mention, besiege the seaports Ukraine used for trade which played a role in PA modernisation efforts.
> 
> Can PA overcome it? Possibly but the loss of many decades long defence partner will create hurdles.



Not just Pakistan. China’s L-15 depends on Motor Sich for engines and if I am not mistaken Turkey is collaborating with them for drone engine/helicopter engine.

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## nang2

FairAndUnbiased said:


> They occupied west for 1 more year but extracted 26x higher value.


Of course, richer countries have more to be looted. I never denied that. I only claimed that looting a poor country can also be highly profitable but I never claimed that every looting is highly profitable. I don't know what you are trying to correct.


----------



## Wergeland

Man of steel23 said:


> This is not thinking brother but real ground reality and this was what Russia's spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said today in a press-con.
> 
> *"Clearly [the] accession of Finland and Sweden into NATO, which is first and foremost a military alliance, would have serious military-political repercussions that would demand a response from our country," she said.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Issues Ominous Warning to Finland, Sweden Should They Join NATO
> 
> 
> Ukraine's president confirmed that both countries had offered their support in the fight against Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newsweek.com



I know what Russia wants. It wants Sweden and Finland to stay out of NATO just like during the cold-war.

But you are underestimating Finland and Sweden. Finns actually managed to defeat Russia several times in history. Sweden too, as it was a great power that competed with Russia and dealt heavy blows to Imperial Russia. Sweden is the America of Scandinavia. They are a peaceful society but dont get fooled by that, Swedes are some of the most clever people i have come across.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497184345697755163

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497262108420960257

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## KAL-EL

Russians taking to the streets and protesting in Russia.

This despite being threatened with jail time and possibly worse.

God bless those brave people.

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## Patriot forever

siegecrossbow said:


> Not just Pakistan. China’s L-15 depends on Motor Sich for engines and if I am not mistaken Turkey is collaborating with them for drone engine/helicopter engine.



My question is will the engines come if Ukraine joins NATO?


----------



## jamal18

nufix said:


> Here you go:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps for others who didnt know who he is. He is the father (or one of the fathers) of the neorealism school of thought.


Words of near prophetic wisdom. 

Translation: this crisis has been created by the West, and using the Ukrainians as human shields for the West.

Another one. The former US ambassador to the USSR testified that the ' eastward expansion of Nato would be the greatest foreign policy blunder of the post-cold war era'. 

They had been warned.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497269211500093440
Article 5 of NATO:

The most serious section of the treaty is Article 5, which is known as the “*commitment clause*.” Within this clause, every member of NATO agrees that it will consider an armed attack against any member state, whether in Europe or North America, as an attack against all 30 members of the organization.


----------



## Wergeland

nang2 said:


> I think current talks from Russian side are mostly smoke. The purpose is to distract and confound. Only after the battle subsides, the talks become serious.


I believe Russia, Sweden and Finland will come to an agreement behind doors. 



QWECXZ said:


> Finland was part of Russia for about a century.


You are correct, my mistake.
It was a autonomus part of Russian Empire

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## nang2

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497269211500093440
> Article 5 of NATO:
> 
> The most serious section of the treaty is Article 5, which is known as the “*commitment clause*.” Within this clause, every member of NATO agrees that it will consider an armed attack against any member state, whether in Europe or North America, as an attack against all 30 members of the organization.


Was PDF just cyberattacked by Russians? I had a hard time refreshing it.

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## F-22Raptor

A senior Pentagon official told reporters on Friday afternoon that Russian forces have lost “momentum” in their invasion of Ukraine, although Russia has not yet deployed all available military forces.

“The Russians have lost a little bit of their momentum. No population centers have been taken. Russia has yet to achieve air superiority,” the official said. “They are not moving on Kyiv as fast as they anticipated it going.”

The official noted that “Ukrainian command and control is intact.”

https://news.yahoo.com/pentagon-official-russia-lost-momentum-190814494.html?soc_src=strm&soc_trk=tw

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## khail007

Arsalan890 said:


> Pakistani people forgets Afghanistan invasion of soviet union.



We were after the western propagandists and Zia both lied that USSR wants access to the Arabian Sea and the next target will be Pakistan. At that time the USA was trying to install a pro-west government in Kabul - Remember so many coups in a short span of time in Kabul? That was the result of USA interference and USSR efforts to counter them.

Thanks, ALLAH SWT we were saved from USA wicked tricks in the decade of the 60s when the USA had a base in Peshawar for intelligence surveillance over USSR.
U2 were based at Peshawar and one was shot down by USSR in their airspace and the pilot Mr. Gerry Power was arrested alive.
The results:
1- Our so-called pharaaaand USA embargoed Pakistan for weapons in 65 war.
2- USSR was angry at the time and later we paid the price in the 70s as USSR supported India with all moral/material/diplomatic means, especially weapons.
We only waited for USA 7th fleet for interference to prevent the fall of 'Dacca' but they never reached.
Till today many Pakistanis/Politicians/Generals/Bureaucrats happily try to put their weight behind USA/West - because the Russian system does not suit our elite class in terms of privileges.

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## siegecrossbow

Patriot forever said:


> My question is will the engines come if Ukraine joins NATO?



If Ukraine survives. That’s the question. Also keep in mind that it takes time for the factories to ramp back up production after the dust has settled.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497300643156946944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497301413172592651


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## nang2

jamal18 said:


> Words of near prophetic wisdom.
> 
> Translation: this crisis has been created by the West, and using the Ukrainians as human shields for the West.
> 
> Another one. The former US ambassador to the USSR testified that the ' eastward expansion of Nato would be the greatest foreign policy blunder of the post-cold war era'.
> 
> They had been warned.


As wise as the phrase "don't poke the bear". This time, it means literally.

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## RescueRanger

Ukrainian social media users have noticed some buildings in Kiev being marked with a distinct purple LED panel.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497286861940740099


----------



## nang2

F-22Raptor said:


> A senior Pentagon official told reporters on Friday afternoon that Russian forces have lost “momentum” in their invasion of Ukraine, although Russia has not yet deployed all available military forces.
> 
> “The Russians have lost a little bit of their momentum. No population centers have been taken. Russia has yet to achieve air superiority,” the official said. “They are not moving on Kyiv as fast as they anticipated it going.”
> 
> The official noted that “Ukrainian command and control is intact.”
> 
> https://news.yahoo.com/pentagon-official-russia-lost-momentum-190814494.html?soc_src=strm&soc_trk=tw


Americans are suckers for such news that always come from some senior official of some organization without giving his/her name.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497286861940740099


Idiotic straw man argument.

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## Great Janjua

I don't know why every tom dick and harry is against Ukraine in this whole fiasco. Russia is the last country you want to make good links with. It is Indias bumchum. The amount of affection Ukraine has for a free-spirited life is beyond any country on the planet. Yet more than half of everyone on here is two chokes deep on Russian klubs.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497259463597826050

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## HAIDER

siegecrossbow said:


> Not just Pakistan. China’s L-15 depends on Motor Sich for engines and if I am not mistaken Turkey is collaborating with them for drone engine/helicopter engine.


Turkey latest UAV program is totally dependent on Motor Sich , this factory seems now under Russian control. Turkish Akinci strike UAVs has Ukraninan/Motor Sich engines AI-450T. Also providing jet engine designing and engines for other UAV.





Ukrainian engine-maker SE Ivchenko-Progress is producing the AI-35 engine to power Turkey’s new, indigenous Gezgin missile, according to a representative with a Turkish engine manufacturer with knowledge of the effort. Ukrainian media has reported SE Ivchenko-Progress is producing a batch of 12 AI-35s.





Analysts have described the Gezgin as similar to the American-made Tomahawk. The Gezgin program was designed to develop conventional, long-range strike capabilities for naval platforms. This new missile is thought to have a range of approximately 1,000 kilometer

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## nang2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497259463597826050


Cheap support.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497258894829264896


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## RescueRanger

This video shows a convoy consisting of a T-64 Tank and armored vehicles towing an artillery piece belonging to the Ukrainian military in Kiev overnight: 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497291709247627274


----------



## Great Janjua

Khanate said:


> Ukraine has been a reliable defence partner to Pakistan. This war will decimate Ukrainian military industrial complex. Not to mention, besiege the seaports Ukraine used for trade which played a role in PA modernisation efforts.
> 
> Can PA overcome it? Possibly but the loss of many decades long defence partner will create hurdles.


You're giving Ukraine bashers heartaches. Ukraine has provided our country to the best of its ability yet some folks continue to slander ukraina.

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## S10

Foinikas said:


> I don't know if you guys mentioned this earlier,but they say a Ukrainian Mig-29 pilot shot down a Russian Su-35.
> 
> They call him the "Ghost of Kiev".


Fake news

Started by a Scottish guy trying to sell merchandise.

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## khansaheeb

jamal18 said:


> 1. Conscripting _all_ men between 20-60 yrs. Can you train and equip that many? And what use is a 60 yr old?
> 
> 2. Handing out weapons to civilians? Untrained people being thrown into a war. No good for anything. State sponsored suicide.
> 
> 3. Sophisticated weapons being flown in from abroad? How are you going to train their crews and integrate them into the military plan?
> 
> I said before, there is an element of desperation. Lack of planning and foresight.


As if the Ukrainians will fight for a lost cause.

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## Super Falcon

Very well summed up in video

War only brings misery for workd peace but it is duty of both sides not to push each other at tge end of tge road where no road left but to war that mustake europeans did in WW 1 with sanctions on germany which left no choice but to cut of all options they drcided to take forcefully and for survival they did right and any one woukd that

Usa seems only left one weapin sanctions i think there will be no country on pkanet usa not sanctioned in few years tgey are isolating themselves only

Usa akways betrayed its allies

Ukraine has asked for F 15 jets but request denied


----------



## khail007

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497102822239879188



IMO, what is the significance of such actions for Ukraine? Now, this all seems to be a 'topi drama'.
Yeh sub bus ab doooor doooor hi ghomtay rahen gay - Ukraine ko mamoo bananay k baad.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497303072778768390


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## Super Falcon

Lessons for india fighting in own back ground usa and allies keave you in tight corridor where you will be eaten alive by china

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## RescueRanger

nang2 said:


> Cheap support.


This is actually an attack on a foreign diplomat against Section 29 of the VCDR. A notice me senpai moment from Ireland to be honest!


----------



## Trango Towers

Iron Shrappenel said:


> Most definitely Russians are not stupid which makes the rest of your explanation questionable.... In light of the current developments... NATO will most definitely impose sanctions on Russia and Pro Russo Ukrainian govt. Keeping that in mind the co-operation between us and Ukraine would not be as smooth....
> In case of partition... The majority of industrial cities and states are either in control (kharkiv armored vehicles and aviation) ( Zaporizhzhia engines etc) or will be in control (kyiv aviation ) (Mariupol shipbuilding).... This would leave Ukraine with little to no defense industry.... In a way "demilitarizing" Ukraine for good....


Unless things are crystal clear, everything is questionable.
Russian will find a way. Iran did it. Pakistan did it. You think Russia didn't factor these sanctions in? 
The anglo saxons do this to anyone who isn't one of them. Europe is not united on sanctions. SWIFT transactions have received like warm reception. So in the coming days we will see clarity.
Chernobyl is taken by the Russian but today's news was the people who are working there are going about their business with Russian troops there.


----------



## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497284570999369729

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## S.Y.A

khail007 said:


> At that time the USA was trying to install a pro-west government in Kabul - Remember so many coups in a short span of time in Kabul? That was the result of USA interference and USSR efforts to counter them.


what history are you reading? are you high or something? the coups were done by anti-west people, daud deposed his cousin, the king. one group of commies did away with him and suppressed the other group of commies, who called in soviet union for help. there was little to no US interest in afghanistan prior to soviet invasion.

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## Primus

Anyone got that vid of the Ukrainian T64 being engaged and destroyed by a Russian tank? 

Its from the POV of someone driving by


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497261417023647746

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497305588216311809


----------



## S.Y.A

Great Janjua said:


> I don't know why every tom dick and harry is against Ukraine in this whole fiasco. Russia is the last country you want to make good links with. It is Indias bumchum. The amount of affection Ukraine has for a free-spirited life is beyond any country on the planet. Yet more than half of everyone on here is two chokes deep on Russian klubs.


we can have good links with russia, but this invasion is pure aggression. and violation of a sovereign nation. the chinese are understandably pro-russia, but the pakistani fanboys do so because of china, or because they have forgotten that russia has murdered and killed many in the past (they are most probably imran hossein followers, who probably thinks that putin is imam mehdi).

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## F-22Raptor

Pentagon briefing shortly


----------



## Awan68

Ali_Baba said:


> Based on the performance of Russian forces, I dont think Sweden or Finland would be that worried. Impressive against Ukraine who has nothing - but Sweden and Finland have very professional armed forces who know what they are doing.


Lol, what are u on about?, clearly u knw next to nothing about warfare, Russia did not even employ 10% of its military resources in Ukarine and they are almost in the capital on the third day of the invasion and Ukarine was no cake walk, it is second largest country in Europe. It took the yanks almost a month to reach Baghdad that too with full on war mode and all of NATO at their backs. Real war is not call of duty, think before spewing nonsense.

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## khail007

Iron Shrappenel said:


> It goes both ways... US and Russia both will learn from the shortcomings.... Would be silly to think the Russians would do them again...



Indeed, it goes both ways.
USA arrogance makes them hard learner. USA takes twice the time as compared to Russia.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497306128111353856

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497303753145335814


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## TNT

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497268084243144708
> View attachment 818633



Looking at the NATO map, its justifiable for Russia to mark Ukraine as a red line. Ukraine becoming NATO member puts Moscow in reach and within a few days away in a large NATO blitzkrieg. NATO is actively encircling Russia and its very evident. 
In future we may see chinese influence and talk of military bases in South America and we will all see how Americans shout and cry and call it "blatant violations of international laws" lolz. The western hypocrisy is very much exposed now and its why we see a rise of a multipolar world order.

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## Super Falcon

S.Y.A said:


> we can have good links with russia, but this invasion is pure aggression. and violation of a sovereign nation. the chinese are understandably pro-russia, but the pakistani fanboys do so because of china, or because they have forgotten that russia has murdered and killed many in the past (they are most probably imran hossein followers, who probably thinks that putin is imam mehdi).




Think of your first now you cant play with two world powers usa asked either join sanctions on russia or be enemy india have no choice either way india has to loose if u choise usa russia will punish you abd you cannot buy russia weapons due to usa financial sanctions

And if you join russia usa will be sanctioning you too so your economy will be freezed 

Massive dange to you guy


----------



## kingQamaR

Fot a former comedian Zelenski is showing the world what 'stepping up' means. All Ukrainians are heroes and Zelenski is their heroic leader. This is how you create a legacy Putin, take note.

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## Oublious

Great Janjua said:


> You're giving Ukraine bashers heartaches. Ukraine has provided our country to the best of its ability yet some folks continue to slander ukraina.




Didn't understand these Pakistanies, what will they gain when Russia invade Ukrain? Ukrain is today 1 of the top OEM in the world with rocket engine. With engines what Pakistan can benefit with ther UAV program, or will they go to Russia😄?

dumb members, when it comes to anti american they are in the frontline without brains, he Turkey estabilished join venture company with Motor Sich Blacksee shield engine. We have secured our engine program what about Pakistan😀.

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## TheNoob

Huffal said:


> Anyone got that vid of the Ukrainian T64 being engaged and destroyed by a Russian tank?
> 
> Its from the POV of someone driving by




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497212975400239106

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497304251562967044


----------



## obj 705A

While it's still far too early to say how much would the sanctions affect Russia (we have to wait for few months after the sanctions are applied and after the war is over) however it's not a good sign when one of the first companies to abide by the sanctions on Russia is a major Chinese company.
____________________________________

As Russia attacks Ukraine, shipments of products to Russia halted by Intel, Dell & Lenovo​
As the Russia-Ukraine conflict continues to worsen, technology companies like Intel, Dell and Lenovo have decided to suspend their shipments to Russia. As per the reports of Nexta TV, Intel, Dell and Lenovo will not be shipping their products to Russia at this moment due to the ongoing conflict. Intel and Dell, both are American companies while Lenovo is a Chinese company. This comes after the US announced restrictions on the shipping of technological products to Russia.

Earlier on Thursday, the Biden administration announced a slew of new restrictions on technological products intended at limiting Russia's access to foreign goods such as semiconductors, computers, lasers and telecommunications equipment, according to the New York Times. High-tech items created in other countries using American equipment, software, or designs are also not allowed to be shipped to Russia under the new rules, which are similar to the sanctions imposed by the United States on Huawei, a Chinese language telecom company, in 2020.









As Russia attacks Ukraine, shipments of products to Russia halted by Intel, Dell & Lenovo


As the Russia-Ukraine conflict continues to worsen, technology companies like Intel, Dell and Lenovo have decided to suspend their shipments to Russia.




m.republicworld.com

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497308168547975170


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## khail007

S.Y.A said:


> what history are you reading? are you high or something? the coups were done anti-west people, daud deposed his cousin, the king. one group of commies did away with him and suppressed the other group of commies, who called in soviet union for help. there was little to no US interest in afghanistan prior to soviet invasion.



Could you define, what history you are reading? OR do you only call USA/Western history a history?
You feel comfortable with USA propaganda, stick to your opinion, I will stick to mine.
They were all mad for in-fighting with the same ideology?


----------



## The Eagle

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497243365326401536



Shouldn't be arming Taiwan India or any enemy of China to get support. What they expected actually?

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## RescueRanger

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497306128111353856


Here is another video:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497306078098472962


----------



## fitpOsitive

*This was destiny. Russian bear took notice of poking with a stick!!*

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## Man of steel23

Wergeland said:


> I know what Russia wants. It wants Sweden and Finland to stay out of NATO just like during the cold-war.



Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia never joined NATO but they got close to NATO and then again who is more closer to NATO then Finland and Sweden the truth is nobody and they are NATO aligned despite not officially being members and Russia is not fooled by this hence why Ukraine got invaded including Georgia even if they guaraanteed to not join NATO the same will occur with Finland which imho is even way more important then Ukraine as the border they share is much larger from a geostragetic perspective.

The only way settlement could be reached is becoming a Russian fiefdom and having multiple Russian military bases in Finland and Sweden that is the only thing that could avert a future incursion


----------



## Messerschmitt



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## F-22Raptor

kingQamaR said:


> Fot a former comedian Zelenski is showing the world what 'stepping up' means. All Ukrainians are heroes and Zelenski is their heroic leader. This is how you create a legacy Putin, take note.



Zelenski is a hero. Heavily outmatched, yet right beside his people.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497268783383298058


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497309857925550081


----------



## dBSPL

Has Poland made an official statement on the number of refugees crossing the border?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497309585799057413

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497309223155220482

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497310340287246337


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497208350727192583


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497309862472077318


----------



## nang2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497309585799057413


It probably only prompts more urgent actions to move away from SWIFT. It is like atomic bombs. Once it explodes, it becomes radioactive.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497310531467849730


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## nang2

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497268783383298058


Lucky him . He was right in the middle of it.

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## HAIDER

Oublious said:


> Didn't understand these Pakistanies, what will they gain when Russia invade Ukrain? Ukrain is today 1 of the top OEM in the world with rocket engine. With engines what Pakistan can benefit with ther UAV program, or will they go to Russia😄?
> 
> dumb members, when it comes to anti american they are in the frontline without brains, he Turkey estabilished join venture company with Motor Sich Blacksee shield engine. We have secured our engine program what about Pakistan😀.


Nothing personal, we all having a good time..as long as our nation is not a victim of any type of spillover. Also, Russia is the only country that gave Pakistan steel mill. Which is the backbone of any country. Besides this, JF17 engines, helicopters etc .... so Pak has gain a lot from Russia.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497311121149157379

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497311131588833281

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## dBSPL

The opening of a front from Belarus caused the defense of Kiev to be made within the city, which is the most important strategic advantage of Russia at the moment.

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## khansaheeb

TNT said:


> Very stupid and irresponsible of the govt. If civilians attack a russian convoy with Molotov cocktails, it wont do much damage but the Russians will then turn towards the residential buildings and flatten them. This clown President is not only a clown but a really stupid one too.


So you are saying the Ukrainians should surrender and give up hope?

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## Primus

Tysm


TheNoob said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497212975400239106

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## Pappa Alpha

I think Russia is doing this with economic guarantees from China. The world is officially bipolar again.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497309178372796418

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## Super Falcon

Russia shoukd end that war here better for world oeace furtger esclation lead to ww 3


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## F-22Raptor

Listening to a live Pentagon briefing:

Russia is experiencing setbacks and have not achieved their objectives over the last 24 hours.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497309903765090309


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## S.Y.A

khail007 said:


> Could you define, what history you are reading? OR do you only call USA/Western history a history?
> You feel comfortable with USA propaganda, stick to your opinion, I will stick to mine.
> They were all mad for in-fighting with the same ideology?


ok imran hosein fanboy. the truth is that none of them was pro-USA, all of them were commies and wanted to ally themselves with soviet union. and even supported pashtunistan commie movement in pakistan (during both daud and khalq faction's time). this isnt propaganda. as for sticking to opinions is concerned, yours is plain wrong.


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## khansaheeb

25 Feb, 2022 19:26
HomeRussia & FSU

Serbia reveals decision on Russia sanctions​Belgrade will not join EU in sanctions against Russia, but won’t recognize Donbass republics either





File photo: Belgrade, Serbia, February 15, 2022. © AP Photo/Darko Vojinovic
Serbia will not join the EU sanctions against Russia over its military operation in Ukraine, President Aleksandar Vucic announced on Friday. Belgrade will also not recognize the Donetsk (DPR) and Lugansk (LPR) People’s Republics because it respects the territorial integrity of Ukraine, Vucic said.
Vucic addressed the nation following the meeting of Serbia’s national security council, saying that the West had put enormous pressure on Belgrade to condemn Moscow.
_“We faced pressure from many,” _Vucic said._ “We made the decision with a cool and sober mind, because we believe that respecting international law strengthens our position.” _
He added that the Serbs consider both Russians and Ukrainians as _“brotherly people,”_ saying that it makes watching the unfolding events in Ukraine difficult.


*READ MORE: *UK adds Putin and Lavrov to sanctions list
On Thursday, Moscow announced the start of its military operation in Ukraine, claiming that it was the only option left for defending the people in the DPR and LPR from an imminent attack. Russian President Vladimir Putin says that the operation is aimed at _“demilitarization” _and_ “denazification”_ of Ukraine. Kiev and its western allies insist the offensive is an _“unprovoked”_ attack. The Russian Defense Ministry says that only military targets are being hit across the country. 
Belgrade’s position to not recognize the breakaway Donbass republics comes in view of Serbia’s own province of Kosovo, occupied during the US-led NATO bombing campaign of Yugoslavia in 1999, declaring independence in 2008 with US support. While over 100 countries, mainly US allies, have recognized Kosovo as independent, both Belgrade and Moscow have refused to do so.
The Kremlin repeatedly cited the Kosovo precedent when addressing the West on the developments in Crimea and the Donbass, both of which have a large ethnic Russian population and strong historic ties to Russia.



https://www.rt.com/russia/550658-serbia-moscow-sanctions-ukraine/


----------



## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497309585799057413



Putin has bought mother Russia to ruin - Russia will be turned into an economic wasteland - this is not going to get unwound for "good behaviour" down the road. 

Russia will never be allowed to be able to do something like this again - be under no illusion about this.

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## Super Falcon

Pappa Alpha said:


> I think Russia is doing this with economic guarantees from China. The world is officially bipolar again.


Due to usa but india is the major looser here usa will ask india to join the sanctiibs on russia if india dies it 70 opercent of indian military equionent will be paralyzed due to russia will not supply india with sp

Tanks war shios missiles fighter jet air defence india has to spend 1000 billion dollars to buy bew toys

If india joins russia ysa will leave india as it keft ukraine to be eaten alive by china

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## The Eagle

Seems like it is all going as planned by NATO. Russia getting hit by sanctions and sanctions. I wanted to ask if they are really serious in this regard and Russia is always the invader and attacker and a threat; why not to call for cancellation of Russia s UNSC permanent status. You know what? Everyone has many skeletons. The drama and cold war will continue.

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## F-22Raptor

The US is continuing to provide lethal aid to Ukraine: Pentagon

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## dBSPL

khansaheeb said:


> So you are saying the Ukrainians should surrender and give up hope?


Our army was in a demobilized status when the British, the French and their proxy terrorist elements and other proxy statelets whole together invaded our country. There was nothing. There was not even hope. Such periods are turning points for peoples to show their collective strength and devotion to their freedom.

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## Oublious

Pappa Alpha said:


> I think Russia is doing this with economic guarantees from China. The world is officially bipolar again.




lol, they wont last for long. All that money and gold will burn...


----------



## F-22Raptor

Ali_Baba said:


> Putin has bought mother Russia to ruin - Russia will be turned into an economic wasteland - this is not going to get unwound for "good behaviour" down the road.
> 
> Russia will never be allowed to be able to do something like this again - be under no illusion about this.






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497313832070488076

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## The Eagle

Super Falcon said:


> Due to usa but india is the najo looser here usa will ask india to join the sanctiibs on russia if india dies it 70 opercent of indian military equionent will be paralyzed due to russia will not supply india with sp
> 
> Tanks war shios missiles fighter jet air defence india has to spend 1000 billion dollars to buy bew toys
> 
> If india joins russia ysa will leave india as it keft ukraine to be eaten alive by china



India is currently in so much of silent mode and hiding to avoid any questions. I wish that India is invited to join NATO. What comes next is something else. Apparently, India is already in LEMOA and QUAD but also playing well with silence for Ukraine which is called out by many behind the closed doors in D.C.

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## S.Y.A

The Eagle said:


> Seems like it is all going as planned by NATO. Russia getting hit by sanctions and sanctions. I wanted to ask if they are really serious in this regard and Russia is always the invader and attacker and a threat; why not to call for cancellation of Russia s UNSC permanent status. You know what? Everyone has many skeletons. The drama and cold war will continue.


...in this case russia is the invader and attacker. what joe shearer said a few dozen pages ago holds true, nato just pumped up ukraine so that russia will blunder into a war. and at the same time, the nato countries failed to provide anything of significance to the ukrainian armed forces, they had a chance to bleed russia dry, but failed.


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## jamal18

khansaheeb said:


> So you are saying the Ukrainians should surrender and give up hope?


No.

The leadership have a duty to their subordinates. You cannot put them in a situation that is certainly fatal, especially as they can realistically achieve nothing in return.


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## kingQamaR

So Putin, is going to follow Mr hitlers Germany did in WW2 to France 

By Installing a puppet Régime de Vichy *type of Government to run Ukrainian and answering to him in Moscow 

What a fcking joke this is liberation haha *

Ukraine is fighting back....Putin has truly underestimated a very tough, proud nation


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## Aesterix

Getting nasty now. Topol on the move.
NATO shout shut their pie holes and stop provoking Russia.
Putin is no Gorbachev. He may push the button.

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## F-22Raptor

Pentagon just announced that Russia still does NOT have superiority over Ukrainian airspace.

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## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> Pentagon just announced that Russia still does NOT have superiority over Ukrainian airspace.


Ok so where is the proof of that claim? All i see is Russian jets flying around and constantly pounding Ukrainian assets

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497315204430020611


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## The Eagle

kingQamaR said:


> So Putin, is going to follow Mr hitlers Germany did in WW2 to France
> 
> By Installing a puppet Régime de Vichy *type of Government to run Ukrainian and answering to him in Moscow
> 
> What a fcking joke this is liberation haha *
> 
> Ukraine is fighting back....Putin has truly underestimated a very tough, proud nation



US and UK did the same in 2014 to Ukraine I think.

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## Super Falcon

The Eagle said:


> India is currently in so much of silent mode and hiding to avoid any questions. I wish that India is invited to join NATO. What comes next is something else. Apparently, India is already in LEMOA and QUAD but also playing well with silence for Ukraine which is called out by many behind the closed doors in D.C.


Usa will ask at UN meeting to vote against russia

Im sure jai shanker will have covid and do not vote against pkeasing both we were not there to vote


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## QWECXZ

The Eagle said:


> Seems like it is all going as planned by NATO. Russia getting hit by sanctions and sanctions. I wanted to ask if they are really serious in this regard and Russia is always the invader and attacker and a threat; why not to call for cancellation of Russia s UNSC permanent status. You know what? Everyone has many skeletons. The drama and cold war will continue.


What? Call for cancellation of Russia's UNSC permanent status? As if that were possible? The Soviet Union has been recognized as one of the victors of the World War II. Russia is officially the successor of the Soviet Union. Meanwhile, do you think China will allow that to happen?

Unless they want to kick both China and Russia out, there's no way in hell that such a thing can happen. And the day that they kick Russia and China out will be the day that the UN will turn into a definition in history books. China and Russia can establish a similar organization and call it the new UN or whatever and I am sure many countries will join it, including Pakistan and Iran.

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## dBSPL

Aesterix said:


> View attachment 818659
> 
> 
> Getting nasty now. Topol on the move.
> NATO shout shut their pie holes and stop provoking Russia.
> Putin is no Gorbachev. He may push the button.


The Russian information service published the photo.

Mutual political messages continue.

The only difference is that while westerners prefer to talk about economic sanctions, Russia persistently threatens Europe with a nuclear apocalypse.


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## Super Falcon

S.Y.A said:


> ...in this case russia is the invader and attacker. what joe shearer said a few dozen pages ago holds true, nato just pumped up ukraine so that russia will blunder into a war. and at the same time, the nato countries failed to provide anything of significance to the ukrainian armed forces, they had a chance to bleed russia dry, but failed.


yes some how russia has muscle and chibese econony weakenIng usa To its knees

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497313832070488076


India's government has also asked Russian President to cease hostilities and resolve the issue with dialogue. Effectively, both China and India are giving lip service for anyone who cares to see what their position on the matter is

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## RescueRanger

F-22Raptor said:


> Pentagon just announced that Russia still does NOT have superiority over Ukrainian airspace.



This the same pentagon that vehemently stated that there were no civilian casualties in the drone strike next to Kabul Airport? Claiming it a righteous over the horizon kill?

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## khansaheeb

Super Falcon said:


> Russia shoukd end that war here better for world oeace furtger esclation lead to ww 3


Other than US who would fight Russia? Everyone barks and hides behind big Daddy USA.

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## The Eagle

Super Falcon said:


> Usa will ask at UN meeting to vote against russia
> 
> Im sure jai shanker will have covid and do not vote against pkeasing both we were not there to vote



As long as they need India against China and Pakistan like Ukraine against Russia, they wouldn't get tough with India. Both of parties are aware I think. However, if India becomes like Ukraine and starts cozying to Russia, we might see some sanctions action.

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## dBSPL

Russia and the United States have never directly fought each other. However, after each war, they shared the gains among themselves.

We'll see if the rise of China can change this equation.

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## khansaheeb

Ali_Baba said:


> Putin has bought mother Russia to ruin - Russia will be turned into an economic wasteland - this is not going to get unwound for "good behaviour" down the road.
> 
> Russia will never be allowed to be able to do something like this again - be under no illusion about this.


Wishful Indian thinking, it's not going to happen.


----------



## Wergeland

Great Janjua said:


> I don't know why every tom dick and harry is against Ukraine in this whole fiasco. Russia is the last country you want to make good links with. It is Indias bumchum. The amount of affection Ukraine has for a free-spirited life is beyond any country on the planet. Yet more than half of everyone on here is two chokes deep on Russian klubs.



Why is it so hard to understand?
NATO and its members invaded a dosen muslim nations past 20 years. NATO memebrs has bombed and killed millions of muslims. So why are you suprised to see someone cheering for Russia that seems to slap NATO back this time?

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## Flight of falcon

F-22Raptor said:


> Listening to a live Pentagon briefing:
> 
> Russia is experiencing setbacks and have not achieved their objectives over the last 24 hours.




American briefings and media … you got to be brain dead to listen to them. 

Kiev is surrounded and under attack in less than 24 hours. LOL ,…I was a kid watching Iraq war and looking back I rememebr all the propaganda and nonsense state department and media was spreading. They are doing worse now .

Russians seem to have no problem advancing and taking over Ukraine in the next 24 hours.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497316710990426118

Apparently Ukrainian MOD reporting Russians are facing supply and logistics issues. Russian vehicles running out of gas. 
I'm sure he meant Ukrainian MOD

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497317081834049545


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## Man of steel23

Live press:

- He said Russia didn't gain air superiorty over ukraine he said it is contested

- He was asked about Finland and he sort of hinted that they will take same approach like Ukraine watch from sidelines..

The US intelligence knows Finland is defacto gone and high on Russia's priority list


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## Abid123

Finland and Sweden might be next....

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## dBSPL

Wergeland said:


> Why is it so hard to understand?
> NATO and its members invaded a dosen muslim nations past 20 years. NATO memebrs has bombed and killed millions of muslims. So why are you suprised to see someone cheering for Russia that seems to slap NATO back this time?


Because for nearly 20 years, Russia has based all its foreign policy discourse on defending the lawlessness of these invasions.

For this reason, it is extremely baseless to justify the current occupation with the examples of the USA. I'm not anti-Russia, you can check my message history. But I think they made a huge strategic mistake here. They fell into the trap of the USA.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497317714058100737

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497317763152597004


----------



## RescueRanger

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497316710990426118
> 
> Apparently Ukrainian MOD reporting Russians are facing supply and logistics issues. Russian vehicles running out of gas.
> I'm sure he meant Ukrainian MOD


Please source your posts. It is a requirement of the forum. 

For example:
Russia plans to threaten to kill Ukrainians who don't surrender, US official says - Source:​








Russia invades Ukraine: Live updates


Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a military operation in Ukraine early Thursday. US President Joe Biden announced new "strong" sanctions on Russia and limitations on exports as he condemned Putin's invasion of Ukraine. Follow here for live news updates from the ground in Ukraine.




edition.cnn.com


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

Trango Towers said:


> Unless things are crystal clear, everything is questionable.
> Russian will find a way. Iran did it. Pakistan did it. You think Russia didn't factor these sanctions in?
> The anglo saxons do this to anyone who isn't one of them. Europe is not united on sanctions. SWIFT transactions have received like warm reception. So in the coming days we will see clarity.
> Chernobyl is taken by the Russian but today's news was the people who are working there are going about their business with Russian troops there.


My dear it's not the implications of sanctions on Russia I'm worried about it's the possible consequences for acquiring weapons and key equipment from them would lead to problems for us.. example ? Consider the Sukhoi sales to Egypt and Indonesia....


----------



## F-22Raptor

RescueRanger said:


> Please source your posts. It is a requirement of the forum.
> 
> For example:
> Russia plans to threaten to kill Ukrainians who don't surrender, US official says - Source:​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia invades Ukraine: Live updates
> 
> 
> Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a military operation in Ukraine early Thursday. US President Joe Biden announced new "strong" sanctions on Russia and limitations on exports as he condemned Putin's invasion of Ukraine. Follow here for live news updates from the ground in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edition.cnn.com




Just did


----------



## khail007

S.Y.A said:


> ok imran hosein fanboy


By the way, who is this Imran Hosein?
Neither, I know such a person nor I am a fanboy of any such person.
Are such skills to accuse another individual without knowing him are integrated in your personality OR part of your education?


On topic, sorry, my bad.
You are right, the USSR invasion was actually to exercise firm control at that time in reference to internal rifts in Afghanistan.


S.Y.A said:


> the truth is that none of them was pro-USA, all of them were commies and wanted to ally themselves with soviet union. and even supported pashtunistan commie movement in pakistan (during both daud and khalq faction's time). this isnt propaganda. as for sticking to opinions is concerned, yours is plain wrong.


----------



## Foinikas

kingQamaR said:


> So Putin, is going to follow Mr hitlers Germany did in WW2 to France
> 
> By Installing a puppet Régime de Vichy *type of Government to run Ukrainian and answering to him in Moscow
> 
> What a fcking joke this is liberation haha *
> 
> Ukraine is fighting back....Putin has truly underestimated a very tough, proud nation


Do you know the history of Ukraine?

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## Trango Towers

siegecrossbow said:


> Not just Pakistan. China’s L-15 depends on Motor Sich for engines and if I am not mistaken Turkey is collaborating with them for drone engine/helicopter engine.


Trust me nothing will happen to these companies


----------



## Super Falcon

Wergeland said:


> Why is it so hard to understand?
> NATO and its members invaded a dosen muslim nations past 20 years. NATO memebrs has bombed and killed millions of muslims. So why are you suprised to see someone cheering for Russia that seems to slap NATO back this time?


Remember ALLAH is tge best planner against us all 

We idiots never fueled russia to counter west as jews moved christians guns from jews to muslims

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## Wergeland

Huffal said:


> Ok so where is the proof of that claim? All i see is Russian jets flying around and constantly pounding Ukrainian assets



Pentagon said so.



Flight of falcon said:


> American briefings and media … you got to be brain dead to listen to them.
> 
> Kiev is surrounded and under attack in less than 24 hours. LOL ,…I was a kid watching Iraq war and looking back I rememebr all the propaganda and nonsense state department and media was spreading. They are doing worse now .
> 
> Russians seem to have no problem advancing and taking over Ukraine in the next 24 hours.



As a muslim i have grown a great distaste for american media. For well over 20 years we have had to endure all kinds of humiliation, dehumanization, falsehood and enemity against muslims and islam.

Americans are their own greatest enemy.

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## Aesterix

dBSPL said:


> The Russian information service published the photo.
> 
> Mutual political messages continue.
> 
> The only difference is that while westerners prefer to talk about economic sanctions, Russia persistently threatens Europe with a nuclear apocalypse.


A wise guy said.
Anything that can happen, will happen, and there's always a first time.

Russians may be bluffing, but....


----------



## jamal18

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497313832070488076


China, while criticizing the invasion in mild tones, also stated that the Russians had ' legitimate security concerns.'

In other words, Nato's expansion _is _a threat to Russia.

As they are surrounded by hostile US bases, don't expect too much sympathy from them to the West.

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## S.Y.A

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Hitler didn't make demands much after 1939. He just attacked Poland, France, Netherlands, Belgium and Soviets with no warning.


soviets maybe, but france declared war on him when he attacked poland. he offered ceasefire after poland's fall, the french refused, that is when he attacked the french.

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## Trango Towers

Iron Shrappenel said:


> My dear it's not the implications of sanctions on Russia I'm worried about it's the possible consequences for acquiring weapons and key equipment from them would lead to problems for us.. example ? Consider the Sukhoi sales to Egypt and Indonesia....


Pakistan has been in a shit forever. They always find a way. Relax. Nothing will happen.
Russia is too big to ignore. And weapons parts etc as well as money movement can be done through 3rd parties. Like who is going to sanction China as well? China will continue to do business with Russia.

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## jamal18

S.Y.A said:


> soviets maybe, but france declared war on him when he attacked poland. he offered ceasefire after poland's fall, the french refused, that is when he attacked the french.


Hitler didn't declare war on the Britain and France, they declared war on him. And after Dunkirk he offered peace to Britain.

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## dBSPL

Aesterix said:


> A wise guy said.
> Anything that can happen, will happen, and there's always a first time.
> 
> Russians may be bluffing, but....


There is so much cruelty and injustice in the world that if humanity destroys itself tomorrow, I cannot cry for my fate.


----------



## Trango Towers

kingQamaR said:


> So Putin, is going to follow Mr hitlers Germany did in WW2 to France
> 
> By Installing a puppet Régime de Vichy *type of Government to run Ukrainian and answering to him in Moscow
> 
> What a fcking joke this is liberation haha *
> 
> Ukraine is fighting back....Putin has truly underestimated a very tough, proud nation


Like america did in Afghanistan, Iraq and toppled Muhammed Mursi and replaced with Sisi. 
I think u are young. This is what Victor's do. They topple governments and install leaders that sing their tune

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## The Eagle

It's not just like that everyone is supporting Russia against Ukraine 8n this conflict or vice versa. Given NATO/US/West involvement & their history of invasions on countries especially the Muslims; I think that there are lot of parties wants to settle score be it any other ground. People wants to payback for backstabbing & can avail this opportunity or any other venue. Just saying.

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## nang2

Today, market rallied even more than yesterday. Even European markets recovered.

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## FairAndUnbiased

S.Y.A said:


> soviets maybe, but france declared war on him when he attacked poland. he offered ceasefire after poland's fall, the french refused, that is when he attacked the french.



To get to France he invaded Belgium and Netherlands unprovoked.


----------



## S.Y.A

Wergeland said:


> Pentagon said so.
> Pentagon also said w
> 
> 
> As a muslim i have grown a great distaste for american media. For well over 20 years we have had to endure all kinds of humilation, degumanization, falsehood and enimity against muslims and islam.
> 
> Americans are their own greatest enemy.


agreed. they lied about nukes in iraq, they lied about iraqi soldiers killing babies in incubators during first gulf war. cnn, bbc etc. usually put a heavy twist on the actual narrative to promote their own, their own reporting is heavily biased. trump was right in one thing: US media is fake news. they a whole lot of lies in a bit of truth.

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## gambit

Gripen9 said:


> *Can you share more details about this pact?* What was the Ukrainian commitment? Did they not abide by it?


Sure. Here is the background info.

When the Soviet Union collapsed back in 1991, all the former Soviet satellites became owners of many Soviet weapons. Ukraine had reportedly 1700 nuclear warheads in various deployment methods, from missiles to bombs. This stockpile was 3rd largest in the world. Russia could not retrieve all of them because the country was in chaos, the Russian military was in disarray, its leadership fractured, and the ranks demoralized. Nevertheless, at least at the business level, Russia was the legal owner of that nuclear stockpile.

Could Ukraine defend its physical ownership of that nuclear stockpile and maintain it? Possibly, but essentially, Ukraine could have at least dismantle every delivery platform, separate the warhead components, and be a nuclear weapons state *TO THIS DAY*, like the entire UN Security Council. Even if a nuclear warhead must be transported by car to a location and detonate by hand by a suicide bomber, no member of the UN Security Council want that club expanded. So a deal was made in 1994: The Budapest Agreement.



http://www.pircenter.org/media/content/files/12/13943175580.pdf



The signatories were the US, the UK, and Russia. US/UK experts would help and verify the dismantling of the nuclear stockpile, then Russia would retrieve the fissile materials. In return, the three powers would...

*...respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.*​​*...reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.*​​*...to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.*​​The problem here is that the Budapest Agreement was not legally binding. It was the nation-state equivalent of a "gentleman's handshake" promise. Even so, Ukraine agreed and gave up that nuclear stockpile. There was nothing in the Budapest Agreement about Ukraine not joining NATO and/or neutrality status. The primary concern was that nuclear stockpile.

Let us scale that down as a mental exercise. I challenge you to examine your personal life and see if there were any situation, with a relative or a friend or a business partner, where you would give up something permanently based on a *NON-LEGAL* document, and because it was non-legal the other party can change his mind on a whim and there would be nothing you can do about that change. Am willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that you would find one situation where you refused to sign or even gave a nod.

Except that Ukraine gave up 1700 times for one *NON-LEGAL* agreement. Think about that for a moment. Each nuclear warhead is a *PERMANENT* security assurance. As long as you have it, the odds of anyone messing with you is dramatically reduced. Look at Iran or NKR for examples of that fear. Ukraine gave up 1700 security assurances just because Russia made a vague promise not to attack in the future. Even though there were the US and the UK in that agreement, everyone knew the real threat to Ukraine was Russia. Ukraine believed that given the historical ties between the two countries, *PERHAPS* there would be peace between the two countries, so Ukraine gave up 1700 security assurances based on a *NON-LEGAL* document.

The Budapest Agreement of 1994 is being re-release to the global public. Once everyone thought thru the process I described above, NATO expansion arguments will be moot. Russia's treachery will be confirmed.

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## NotSure

F-22Raptor said:


> Listening to a live Pentagon briefing:
> 
> Russia is experiencing setbacks and have not achieved their objectives over the last 24 hours.


Yeah, because the pentagon knows exactly a) what russias objectives are and b) what have been achieved or not. In some anglosaxon wet dreams maybe. Your constant parotting of US propaganda will not change the reality.

Considering the fact, that russia has ~500 Su-25, Su-30, Su-34 and Su-35 combined, all capable for PGM strikes, the real attack have not even begun.


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## Wergeland

dBSPL said:


> Because for nearly 20 years, Russia has based all its foreign policy discourse on defending the lawlessness of these invasions.
> 
> For this reason, it is extremely baseless to justify the current occupation with the examples of the USA. I'm not anti-Russia, you can check my message history. But I think they made a huge strategic mistake here. They fell into the trap of the USA.



I am neither pro or anti-russia.
I am pro NATO but anti expansion eastwards.

There is little doubt that emotions play a big role here. No one likes to be painted as boogeyman. Muslims especially has been targeted by US and by default much of european media too, past 20 years. Muslims worldwide had a positive outlook on Americans before 2000 but that picture is completeley changed now.
And for what? Is America more powerful or richer and happier today than it was 20 years ago? That is the real question the average american should ask their political class.

It has been a deeply painful ride for me and many muslims who live here in the west. Our very existence questioned because some racist neo-con a**holes in Washington couldnt find a enemy they could project their self-hatred on.

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## S.Y.A

FairAndUnbiased said:


> To get to France he invaded Belgium and Netherlands unprovoked.


that is war, plain and simple. if you can justify ukraine's invasion just because of a few exercises, i am sure hitler and nazis thought it was okay to invade belgium to bypass french defenses.


----------



## RescueRanger

The Eagle said:


> It's not just like that everyone is supporting Russia against Ukraine 8n this conflict or vice versa. Given NATO/US/West involvement & their history of invasions on countries especially the Muslims; I think that there are lot of parties wants to settle score be it any other ground. People wants to payback for backstabbing & can avail this opportunity or any other venue. Just saying.


And that is the truly scary part, all these armchair generals and keyboard commandoes clapping at young and old Ukrainians being handed out SMGs and videos building Molotov's are very quick to forget the mind-seed that destabilized Central and South Asia in 1980's. 

Where else have we seen men and children being given AK47's like they were toffees, where else did we see the covert supply of advanced surface to air missile systems to an underpowered, outgunned indigenous defense force? And what was the result of that combined wet dream? 

They are equipping young men aged 16 to 80 guns... This is a serious concern and could have serious long term destabilizing effects on regional security throughout Europe. *Even if Diplomacy triumphs, there will be a lot of uncontrolled weapons out there, unaccounted for. *

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## QWECXZ

nang2 said:


> Today, market rallied even more than yesterday. Even European markets recovered.


From the panic phase, we're entering the "who cares" phase apparently. After the 3rd day of war, people will stop being excited about it, except for Twitter accounts.

Cryptocurrencies recovered from the crash too. I made a good profit from buying Ethereum at $2300. It's now approaching $2750.

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## The Eagle

Did Ukraine offer talks and showing agreement to demands? I think they will be meeting on 26th Feb in Warsaw. Meanwhile, pentagon will continue with commentary like Russia is facing a lot of resistance.

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## Abid123

Wergeland said:


> Why is it so hard to understand?
> NATO and its members invaded a dosen muslim nations past 20 years. NATO memebrs has bombed and killed millions of muslims. So why are you suprised to see someone cheering for Russia that seems to slap NATO back this time?


Well said.


----------



## Aesterix

gambit said:


> Sure. Here is the background info.
> 
> When the Soviet Union collapsed back in 1991, all the former Soviet satellites became owners of many Soviet weapons. Ukraine had reportedly 1700 nuclear warheads in various deployment methods, from missiles to bombs. This stockpile was 3rd largest in the world. Russia could not retrieve all of them because the country was in chaos, the Russian military was in disarray, its leadership fractured, and the ranks demoralized. Nevertheless, at least at the business level, Russia was the legal owner of that nuclear stockpile.
> 
> Could Ukraine defend its physical ownership of that nuclear stockpile and maintain it? Possibly, but essentially, Ukraine could have at least dismantle every delivery platform, separate the warhead components, and be a nuclear weapons state *TO THIS DAY*, like the entire UN Security Council. Even if a nuclear warhead must be transported by car to a location and detonate by hand by a suicide bomber, no member of the UN Security Council want that club expanded. So a deal was made in 1994: The Budapest Agreement.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.pircenter.org/media/content/files/12/13943175580.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> The signatories were the US, the UK, and Russia. US/UK experts would help and verify the dismantling of the nuclear stockpile, then Russia would retrieve the fissile materials. In return, the three powers would...
> 
> *...respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.*​​*...reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.*​​*...to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.*​​The problem here is that the Budapest Agreement was not legally binding. It was the nation-state equivalent of a "gentleman's handshake" promise. Even so, Ukraine agreed and gave up that nuclear stockpile. There was nothing in the Budapest Agreement about Ukraine not joining NATO and/or neutrality status. The primary concern was that nuclear stockpile.
> 
> Let us scale that down as a mental exercise. I challenge you to examine your personal life and see if there were any situation, with a relative or a friend or a business partner, where you would give up something permanently based on a *NON-LEGAL* document, and because it was non-legal the other party can change his mind on a whim and there would be nothing you can do about that change. Am willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that you would find one situation where you refused to sign or even gave a nod.
> 
> Except that Ukraine gave up 1700 times for one *NON-LEGAL* agreement. Think about that for a moment. Each nuclear warhead is a *PERMANENT* security assurance. As long as you have it, the odds of anyone messing with you is dramatically reduced. Look at Iran or NKR for examples of that fear. Ukraine gave up 1700 security assurances just because Russia made a vague promise not to attack in the future. Even though there were the US and the UK in that agreement, everyone knew the real threat to Ukraine was Russia. Ukraine believed that given the historical ties between the two countries, *PERHAPS* there would be peace between the two countries, so Ukraine gave up 1700 security assurances based on a *NON-LEGAL* document.
> 
> The Budapest Agreement of 1994 is being re-release to the global public. Once everyone thought thru the process I described above, NATO expansion arguments will be moot. Russia's treachery will be confirmed.


Welcome back. Where you been?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497313401822924803

Putin highly underestimated Ukrainian resolve.

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## nang2

QWECXZ said:


> From the panic phase, we're entering the "who cares" phase apparently. After the 3rd day of war, people will stop being excited about it, except for Twitter accounts.
> 
> Cryptocurrencies recovered from the crash too. I made a good profit from buying Ethereum at $2300. It's now approaching $2750.


Good for you.

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## Trango Towers

The Eagle said:


> It's not just like that everyone is supporting Russia against Ukraine 8n this conflict or vice versa. Given NATO/US/West involvement & their history of invasions on countries especially the Muslims; I think that there are lot of parties wants to settle score be it any other ground. People wants to payback for backstabbing & can avail this opportunity or any other venue. Just saying.


I want a bipolar world. The west have had a free run to loot and rape any nation they choose. There is the west and now Russia and China on the other side. Hopefully it will relive pressure on Muslims

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## S.Y.A

QWECXZ said:


> From the panic phase, we're entering the "who cares" phase apparently. After the 3rd day of war, people will stop being excited about it, except for Twitter accounts.
> 
> Cryptocurrencies recovered from the crash too. I made a good profit from buying Ethereum at $2300. It's now approaching $2750.


any tips? i want to make some money too


----------



## NotSure

F-22Raptor said:


> Pentagon just announced that Russia still does NOT have superiority over Ukrainian airspace.


F-22Parrot strikes again. The Pentagon can announce what they want, they are not in the position to know that.


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## RescueRanger

The Americans and their addiction to fossil fuels, everything in a round and about way comes back to that word "Oil":

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496706075050999811


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## Trango Towers

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497313401822924803
> 
> Putin highly underestimated Ukrainian resolve.


Ukrainian resolve? 24hr and they are inside Kiev. Where was the army?

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## Great Janjua

Wergeland said:


> Why is it so hard to understand?
> NATO and its members invaded a dosen muslim nations past 20 years. NATO memebrs has bombed and killed millions of muslims. So why are you suprised to see someone cheering for Russia that seems to slap NATO back this time?


Slapping Nato is a dream only retards dream off. I'll see the day when Russia even whoofs at Nato. War is no joke and neither is Nato the Russian Conventional capabilities are being uncovered in this very conflict. Everything is for show and tell folks.

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## nang2

Trango Towers said:


> I want a bipolar world. The west have had a free run to loot and rape any nation they choose. There is the west and now Russia and China on the other side. Hopefully it will relive pressure on Muslims


Check and balance. That is actually the motto of American politics. I think US should export that to the rest of the world.

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## F-22Raptor

NotSure said:


> F-22Parrot strikes again. The Pentagon can announce what they want, they are not in the position to know that.




Your kidding right? The US Air Force and Navy are running constant intel aircraft to the border of Ukraine. The US has ridiculous battlespace awareness capabilities.

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## QWECXZ

S.Y.A said:


> any tips? i want to make some money too


Not really. Just pure luck.  I was one of the people that believed Russia would actually go ahead with their threats against Ukraine. So, I went to sleep and thought that ETH would probably drop by 10% to 15% if that happens and ETH is already oversold so it can possibly go up to $3000 again. Next day I woke up and I saw that people said Russia had attacked Ukraine.  Just pure luck so far.

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## The Eagle

RescueRanger said:


> And that is the truly scary part, all these armchair generals and keyboard commandoes clapping at young and old Ukrainians being handed out SMGs and videos building Molotov's are very quick to forget the mind-seed that destabilized Central and South Asia in 1980's.
> 
> Where else have we seen men and children being given AK47's like they were toffees, where else did we see the covert supply of advanced surface to air missile systems to an underpowered, outgunned indigenous defense force? And what was the result of that combined wet dream?
> 
> They are equipping young men aged 16 to 80 guns... This is a serious concern and could have serious long term destabilizing effects on regional security throughout Europe. *Even if Diplomacy triumphs, there will be a lot of uncontrolled weapons out there, unaccounted for. *



The reason I said it in short. People pretending to be the analyst easily forgets that shooting a bullet is not the capability, skills and strength. The real quality is to handle what comes next, to face the consequences and deal with the aftermath. Apparently, NATO/US/West will be facing the same people who's relatives lost their lives because of wars. Consequently, Ukraine will too see the harsh aftermath or at-least this is what being sponsored in Russia's neighborhood. NATO might think that they are winning the game but ultimately, there will be a mindset with history of all this waiting for a moment to settle their score. No one will care whether it's Muslim, christian or Jew or atheist or anyone else.

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## Sayfullah

Lesson for Pakistan: Never compromise on your defence no matter what anyone promises you!

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## Primus

Jf-17 block 3 said:


> Lesson for Pakistan: Never compromise on your defence no matter what anyone promises you!


Also to not always trust your allies to come to your aid. Always plan a fight, as if you have to fight it yourseld

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## Sayfullah

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497318630199025671


----------



## nang2

Huffal said:


> Also to not always trust your allies to come to your aid. Always plan a fight, as if you have to fight it yourseld


And that actually helps convince your allies to come to your aid.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497320676486754308

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497319903514308612

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## NotSure

F-22Raptor said:


> Your kidding right? The US Air Force and Navy are running constant intel aircraft to the border of Ukraine. The US has ridiculous battlespace awareness capabilities.


Ridiculous is the correct word for your constant usa stronk propaganda.

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## Sayfullah

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497320793872683014

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497321630128914433


----------



## Awan68

Great Janjua said:


> Slapping Nato is a dream only retards dream off. I'll see the day when Russia even whoofs at Nato. War is no joke and neither is Nato the Russian Conventional capabilities are being uncovered in this very conflict. Everything is for show and tell folks.


What conventional capabilities have been uncovered, care to explain?, what part of the invasion did not live up to ur call of duty standards?


----------



## Englishman

F-22Raptor said:


> Listening to a live Pentagon briefing:
> 
> Russia is experiencing setbacks and have not achieved their objectives over the last 24 hours.



Common yank

Give them at least 20 years will ya! 

(This is a joke about the invasion of Afghanistan in 2001).

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## RescueRanger

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497313401822924803
> 
> Putin highly underestimated Ukrainian resolve.



I wish the Ukranian's success in defending their motherland, but this video reminds me of that video from Mirwais Mohmand from Afghanistan, and we all know how that ended:

_Here is the video for those who don't know what I am referring to:_


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1433074572304125954

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## Great Janjua

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497320676486754308


Glory to Ukraiyna the land of the free-spirited.


----------



## Wergeland

Great Janjua said:


> Slapping Nato is a dream only retards dream off. I'll see the day when Russia even whoofs at Nato. War is no joke and neither is Nato the Russian Conventional capabilities are being uncovered in this very conflict. Everything is for show and tell folks.



You didnt really understand what i was trying to say did you?

Why would you think its retarded to dream about NATO being slapped? Are you really that naive?

Every nation that is attacked by a foreign invader dreams of slapping them back. Its action and reaction. Tbh you are the one who sound retrded if you dont understand that concept.

Does Russia have the capability to slap NATO?
Probably not.

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## gambit

jamal18 said:


> China, while criticizing the invasion in mild tones, also stated that the Russians had ' legitimate security concerns.'
> 
> In other words, Nato's expansion _is _a threat to them.
> 
> *As they are surrounded by hostile US bases,* don't expect too much sympathy from them to the West.


Surrounded? 

Given Russia borders, only %6 of those borders touched a NATO member.

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## F-22Raptor

NotSure said:


> Ridiculous is the correct word for your constant usa stronk propaganda.




You do realize the US has aircraft that can see and hear hundreds of miles into Ukrainian territory right? And sats that have eyewatering imaging capability.

And CIA almost certainly have personnel on the ground as well


----------



## QWECXZ

gambit said:


> Surrounded?
> 
> Given Russia borders, only %6 of those borders touched a NATO member.


Do you expect to expand NATO to East and Central Asia then? Otherwise I cannot see how you want to "literally" surround them. So, obviously when he said "surrounded", he was talking about the Western borders of Russia in Europe, not the entirety of the Russian territory.

You tried to expand NATO to the Caucasus by tempting Georgia to join it, but Russia gave them a historic lesson and they're still suffering from the trauma of that war.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497274191300681728


----------



## Stealth



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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497325254808592387

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## Great Janjua

Awan68 said:


> What conventional capabilities have been uncovered, care to explain?, what part of the invasion did not live up to ur call of duty standards?


Spare me ur prattle. Russian convoys have been mauled, soldiers were taken into captivity. Soviet Relics don't last long against Nato standards. The Russians have been bombing the Ukrainians for 2 days straight from cruise missiles to Groms knocking out major military warehouses and airfields alike. Yet they cannot even maintain air Superiority. Talking about their armoured thrust well that was a complete oversight. When you come expecting roasted beef you leave with a can of beans. It's called war my friend. The Russians have been pummeled by a smaller force.

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## The Eagle

Stealth said:


> View attachment 818665
> View attachment 818666



Was that TEL originally seen recently?


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## Ali_Baba

The Eagle said:


> India is currently in so much of silent mode and hiding to avoid any questions. I wish that India is invited to join NATO. What comes next is something else. Apparently, India is already in LEMOA and QUAD but also playing well with silence for Ukraine which is called out by many behind the closed doors in D.C.



Agree - A lot of diplomats and politicans are wondering how and why "leader of demoncracy" and "the largest demoncracy in the worl", and "member of the quad - India" is being silent/siding with Russia. Problems will start to rise for India now. India had hoped to keep her mouth shut - provide lip service to the QUAD and cash all of the IT outsourcing dollars to India ...

Lets see...

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## PurAzamBaHadaf

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497318877587554309
Hopefully we’ll see some positive news soon


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## RescueRanger

What is this rumourmill on social media about Russians planning to use _TOS_-1 in the planned attack on Kiev.


The Eagle said:


> Was that TEL originally seen recently?


Part of the May day parade preparations, at least that is the official line from the Russian Government's twitter account:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497209772558491650

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## Zibago

gambit said:


> Surrounded?
> 
> Given Russia borders, only %6 of those borders touched a NATO member.


Bay of pigs?

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## The Eagle

Ali_Baba said:


> A lot of diplomats and politicans are wondering how this "member of the quad" is being silent. Problems will start to rise for India. India had hoped to keep her mouth shut - provide lip service to the QUAD and cash all of the IT outsourcing dollars to India ...
> 
> Lets see...



As soon as any official questions about India with US (QUAD) or not, India be like

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## RescueRanger

*UAE and India expected to abstain and VETO from China and Russia. - UNSC ( AP NEWS Presser)*

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## gambit

Wergeland said:


> *I know what Russia wants. It wants Sweden and Finland to stay out of NATO just like during the cold-war.*
> 
> But you are underestimating Finland and Sweden. Finns actually managed to defeat Russia several times in history. Sweden too, as it was a great power that competed with Russia and dealt heavy blows to Imperial Russia. Sweden is the America of Scandinavia. They are a peaceful society but dont get fooled by that, Swedes are some of the most clever people i have come across.


Really...???









Finland says debate on NATO membership ‘will change’ after Russian invasion


Finish Prime Minister Sanna Marin on Thursday said Russia’s invasion of Ukraine will change the debate around NATO membership within her country.”Finland is not currently facing an immed…




thehill.com





Finish Prime Minister Sanna Marin on Thursday said Russia’s invasion of Ukraine will change the debate around NATO membership within her country.​​"Finland is not currently facing an immediate military threat, but it is also now clear that the debate on NATO membership in Finland will change," Marin said, YLE News reported.​​Finland has been debating for months whether the country should apply for NATO membership, with Marin saying it would require broad support for the country to move forward with an application.​​There are two types of membership for any club: explicit and implicit. Or overt and covert, if you want another explanation.

Explicit and overt are self explanatory. The membership is open for everyone to see. But implicit and covert are different and actually more serious. Implicit is theoretical or virtual. The ideals of the club are attractive and may actually be common to aspirants. Covert is where even though membership is not official, there are cooperation between active club members and the aspirants.

Спасибо, Vladimir Putin, for securing future NATO members of both types.

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## QWECXZ

RescueRanger said:


> *UAE and India expected to abstain and VETO from China and Russia. - UNSC ( AP NEWS Presser)*


What?! You don't tell! I am so surprised. Who could've thought that?! lol

The whole idea of passing a resolution against Russia at the UNSC is beyond ridiculous. It's borderline lunacy. It shows the desperation of the US and European countries.

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## The Eagle

RescueRanger said:


> May day parade preparations



That particular night time movement as well?

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## Stealth

The Eagle said:


> Was that TEL originally seen recently?






RescueRanger said:


> What is this rumourmill on social media about Russians planning to use _TOS_-1 in the planned attack on Kiev.
> 
> Part of the May day parade preparations, at least that is the official line from the Russian Government's twitter account:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497209772558491650



Make no sense to move ICBMs 3 months before the parade .....


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## Bearbearbot

From 1 of the comments in thesaker.is website:

Nightvision on February 25, 2022 *·* at 4:10 pm EST/EDT
I have been following the conflict very closely. A few very important but random updates on KEY ISSUES:
1. Russia is now confirmed to have captured both british NLAW and American JAVELIN systems. The NLAWS they have captured multiple, and Javelin only 1 so far.
2. The citizens of many Ukrainian cities are actually posting secret ‘ambush’ locations of Ukrainian forces online in order to notify the Russian army (yes this “treason” is dangerous and brave for them to do). This has happened so far both in Kiev and Kherson/surrounding areas. This shows that many Ukrainian citizens in fact support the Russian army in liberating them from the Nazi regime.
3. Some people in the enemy sphere are commenting on the fact that initial Russian SEAD/DEAD suppression strikes were not as effective as they hoped because Ukraine continues to have some air capabilities. The reason for this is very simple, the U.S. gave Ukraine intelligence on exactly when the invasion would occur, and it has now been confirmed that the large majority of Ukrainian air assets took off on the night of the first airstrikes, went to the air, and many of them were transported to nearby Poland for safekeeping and are NOW coming back to safety. This includes (allegedly) the infamous Turkish TB2 drones as the Ukrainian side is now reporting they still have some left that have returned from hiding in Poland. There’s not much Russia can do about that, the fact that neighboring countries give aid to the enemy. When U.S. attacks a country in its many invasions unfortunately those countries usually don’t even have the luxury of having neighboring “allies” to help them conceal weapons like this, as U.S. generally turns everyone against said country via global hegemonic pressure.
4. Another important topic that many enemy analysts have been incorrectly spouting off about. Some are saying that Russia is showing inferior capabilities because they have been ‘bogged down’ and haven’t taken Kiev as quickly as they intended. I’ve prepared some numbers to give you a comparison for the purpose of context.
Russia is currently utilizing only a tiny fraction of its forces, roughly 20-30 Battalion Tactical Groups (BTG’s) out of the roughly 60 it has prepared for this operation (which sit on the Russian side of the border still, waiting). This is equivalent to anywhere in the 20-40k troops count, roughly the same amount of troops as the late stage of Georgian operation. Keep in mind Russia’s entire Armed Forces is in the region of 800,000 – 1,000,000 troops (of all 3 branches) so you can get an idea what tiny fraction of Russia’s full potential is currently being used. The reason most experts are giving at the moment is Russia did not want to create mass casualties even amongst Ukrainian military/soldiers because they know that their fight is not against even the average Ukrainian soldier but rather specifically the more radicalized Nazi types. This is why Russia has held off on true “shock and awe” style campaign and has not even targeted troop massings, mostly targeting materiel and command objectives. In short, Putin is trying to achieve this campaign as “cleanly” as possible without creating generation blood-libel hatred between Ukrainians/Russians as the ultimate goal is to have the two countries as brotherhoods once again down the line, once the Nazi’s and such have been cleaned out.
So to give you an idea of how Russia’s progress so far compares:
Russia as I’ve said is using so far anywhere between about 20-50k troops vs. a Ukrainian armed forces that has total probably 200k++.
In 2003, the U.S. and “allies” had a force of 309,000 that invaded from the south of Iraq on March 21. They finally captured Bagdad in the north about 450km on April 10th. Now, Iraq is a country of about 24 million people, Ukraine is 50 million. Ukraine is also 50% larger than Iraq by pure territorial area. So it took the U.S. with 300k troops almost 3 weeks, about 20+ days to go 450km and capture the capital.
After only a single day of fighting Russia with its 20-50k troops has already reached Kiev and mostly encircled the capital.
Now onto the speed, some are claiming Russia is going “slow” and is ‘bogged down’. At the height of the famed German Blitzkrieg in June 1944, the Nazi’s progressed as much as 50km per day into Soviet Territory. But when you average their rate of progress over the course of the entire Operation Barbarossa (up until they reached Moscow) the famed “Blitzkrieg” averages to about 9km per day.
If you compute the numbers of U.S.’s invasion of Iraq that I gave, the U.S. did about 20km a day with a force of 300k troops against an army far smaller and weaker and less equipped than the Ukrainian army.
In one plus days so far, Russia on some axes, such as the southern axis from Crimea towards Mariupol or Kherson which it is now storming, has averaged approximately 50-100km per day. This is so far DOUBLE THE RATE of advance that U.S.’s allied force of 310k managed to do in beaten down Iraq and upwards of double the rate of the famed “Blitzkrieg” of WW2. You can easily see this for yourself, just go on googlemaps and use the measurement tool of kilometers towards known captured cities like Melitopol, which is 125km from Crimea (reached in about a day) or Kiev which is 110km from Belarus border and has already been encircled on at least 2-3 sides. On other axes like border to Konotop (80km) Russia progresses at a rate of 50-60km a day. Folks, these are record breaking numbers. No force in history progresses this fast. The U.S. took 3 weeks to take Bagdad which is less than 450km from Kuwait and had a force of 300k troops. Russia is doing 60-100km a day with less than 50k men. This is astounding progress on the modern battlefield that I don’t think has ever been seen before, and Russia is using only a tiny fraction of its capabilities. The forces represented here are about 10% of Russia’s entire armed forces, and anywhere from 30-50% of the forces that have been mobilized for this specific operation in general.

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## RescueRanger

The Eagle said:


> That particular night time movement as well?


God knows what the Russians think most of the time.

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## Stealth

RescueRanger said:


> *UAE and India expected to abstain and VETO from China and Russia. - UNSC ( AP NEWS Presser)*



in dono countries ki is maamlay may woh wali okat hey jo orat march may kharii un orotoon ki hoti hain jo duuur khari rahte hain play card pakar kar takay ham protest may shamil b hojayeen aur cameray may b na ayeen...

btw unkay play cards pe likha huta hey "meray ***** tumhari marzi"

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## jamal18

gambit said:


> Surrounded?
> 
> Given Russia borders, only %6 of those borders touched a NATO member.


Not Russia, China.

6% means nothing. Missiles fired from Nato countries bordering Russia are a threat. This is the end result of 20 yrs of failure by the West to address Russia's security concerns.

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## RescueRanger

Stealth said:


> in dono countries ki is maamlay may woh wali okat hey jo orat march may kharii un orotoon ki hoti hain jo duuur khari rahte hain play card pakar kar takay ham protest may shamil b hojayeen aur cameray may b na ayeen...


Hit the nail on the head brother.

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## The Eagle

Stealth said:


> Make no sense to move ICBMs 3 months before the parade .....



Proves me right that this particular TEL was seen recently in response to NATO threat. Am I right? @RescueRanger was pointing to another footage being shared on social media which may be related to May Day Parade preparation. We have 2 different TELs here. One seen in dark hours, is actually or apparently recent footage.


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## atya

RescueRanger said:


> Came across these three encrypted broadcasts just now:
> View attachment 818479


What is this showing??


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## Stealth

RescueRanger said:


> Hit the nail on the head brother.



UAE (rich) & India (shithole) ... these two richishits cant do anything eek ko atay jatay China Pakistan chaparain maartay hain aur doosray ki total okaat ye hey kay Trump Israel ko recoganize karwa kar agla akar F35 denay say inkaar kardeta hey HAHAHHAHAHAHHAH

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## INS_Vikrant

RescueRanger said:


> *UAE and India expected to abstain and VETO from China and Russia. - UNSC ( AP NEWS Presser)*



USSR & Russia have solidly backed India at UNSC a billion times, voting against them would have been back stabbing of epic proportions. Good we haven't succumbed to Western pressure.

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## Stealth

The Eagle said:


> Proves me right that this particular TEL was seen recently in response to NATO threat. Am I right? @RescueRanger was pointing to another footage being shared on social media which may be related to May Day Parade preparation. We have 2 different TELs here. One seen in dark hours, is actually or apparently recent footage.



As far as I know, the picture is the latest... not available anywhere before on the internet

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497328665209757699


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## FairAndUnbiased

S.Y.A said:


> that is war, plain and simple. if you can justify ukraine's invasion just because of a few exercises, i am sure hitler and nazis thought it was okay to invade belgium to bypass french defenses.



I never justified anything. Name one time I said anything regarding the justification or non justification of the Ukraine conflict. Even my wording is neutral to avoid any subjective value judgements.


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## Great Janjua

Wergeland said:


> You didnt really understand what i was trying to say did you?
> 
> Why would you think its retarded to dream about NATO being slapped? Are you really that naive?
> 
> Every nation that is attacked by a foreign invader dreams of slapping them back. Its action and reaction. Tbh you are the one who sound retrded if you dont understand that concept.
> 
> Does Russia have the capability to slap NATO?
> Probably not.
> 
> Does many muslims want to see US and UK be slapped? Probably
> 
> Do i want to see NATO get slapped?
> Hell no! But i want NATO to achieve a respectable power balance with Russia, where both can feel secure to some extent, like during cold war. Because that will create stable realiable conditions.


You don't get the gist do you. Most of the Muslim countries have been and are extremely corrupt those who prosecute their people who are they to point fingers at other nations they have brought it upon themselves. It's in the Muslim blood to fight amongst ourselves all you need is a brain to figure that one out. Had the Muslims been peaceful with each other Saddam would have been roaming Baghdad and Gaddafi Tripoli. 

You say the cold war had stable conditions...... Bloody Nora your a goofy one aren't ya pal. Think your lines through. Russia has yearnings of creating a cloaked Soviet Union in disguise, more like puppet states. Well, Nato is a bummer in their schemes.


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## FairAndUnbiased

Great Janjua said:


> Slapping Nato is a dream only retards dream off. I'll see the day when Russia even whoofs at Nato. War is no joke and neither is Nato the Russian Conventional capabilities are being uncovered in this very conflict. Everything is for show and tell folks.



Yes they are being uncovered and it shows that they're absolutely dominant.

US took 3 weeks to enter Baghdad in 2003 after beating Iraq down for over 10 years in a 6v1. Russia already encircling Kiev in a 1v1 surprise attack. This is one of the fastest conquests in history.

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## Wergeland

gambit said:


> Really...???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finland says debate on NATO membership ‘will change’ after Russian invasion
> 
> 
> Finish Prime Minister Sanna Marin on Thursday said Russia’s invasion of Ukraine will change the debate around NATO membership within her country.”Finland is not currently facing an immed…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thehill.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finish Prime Minister Sanna Marin on Thursday said Russia’s invasion of Ukraine will change the debate around NATO membership within her country.​​"Finland is not currently facing an immediate military threat, but it is also now clear that the debate on NATO membership in Finland will change," Marin said, YLE News reported.​​Finland has been debating for months whether the country should apply for NATO membership, with Marin saying it would require broad support for the country to move forward with an application.​​There are two types of membership for any club: explicit and implicit. Or overt and covert, if you want another explanation.
> 
> Explicit and overt are self explanatory. The membership is open for everyone to see. But implicit and covert are different and actually more serious. Implicit is theoretical or virtual. The ideals of the club are attractive and may actually be common to aspirants. Covert is where even though membership is not official, there are cooperation between active club members and the aspirants.
> 
> Спасибо, Vladimir Putin, for securing future NATO members of both types.



It wasnt like Sweden and Finland didnt want to become NATO members in the past either you know? But fear of Soviet hostility made them go for neutrality. Of course that changed when soviet power collapsed.

If the consequnece of Finnish and Swedish NATO aspiration is what what see in Ukraine today, then that is not what i wish for my scandinavian brotherly nations.


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## The Eagle

INS_Vikramaditya said:


> USSR & Russia have solidly backed India at UNSC a billion times, voting against them would have been back stabbing of epic proportions. Good we haven't succumbed to Western pressure.



Good one.

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## dBSPL

Sumy streets chanting Ukranian anthem

It was the region where the clashes were most intense for 3 days and yesterday it was said that the city was completely under control.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497320479446687751
Even Mariopul, which was under Russia's nose, did not fall yet.

Ukraine seems start to have recovered from the initial shock. Their morale is quickly recovering.

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## Ali_Baba

RescueRanger said:


> *UAE and India expected to abstain and VETO from China and Russia. - UNSC ( AP NEWS Presser)*



Looks like China is going to abstain aswell - and if China does - then it is a "moral victory" ( what ever that means ).


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## RescueRanger

*O/T: *
_Maybe I am getting old, but please can I ask friends here to say a prayer for peace, if nothing else for the future of children - regardless of their faith, colour, creed. If you don't pray, no issues, just take a minute to reflect or donate some money to UNICEF/WFP/Red Cross. _

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## Stealth

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Yes they are being uncovered and it shows that they're absolutely dominant.
> 
> US took 3 weeks to enter Baghdad in 2003 after beating Iraq down for over 10 years in a 6v1. Russia already encircling Kiev in a 1v1 surprise attack. This is one of the fastest conquests in history.



The second one we have seen by Taliban against Indian Army Version 2 aka Afghan Alien Army & NDS -- trained by Amreekans & Indians for 15+ years LOL this is third fastest .. first one was 152/0

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## gambit

Bleek said:


> @F-22Raptor Is the F-35 still refuelling at Poland?
> 
> When can we expect it to do something useful...


Ooooohhhh...You guys have no idea how useful the F-35 is even when it is *OUTSIDE* the borders of conflict areas. Just because we do not publish what the F-35 found, it does not mean its flights are useless. But am glad that *YOU* mock the F-35 and I hope more people thinks shallowly like you do.

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## dBSPL

After the Czech Republic and Poland, Bulgaria closed its airspace to Russia.

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## RescueRanger

Ali_Baba said:


> Looks like China is going to abstain aswell - and if China does - then it is a "moral victory" ( what ever that means ).


China is going to use her veto power, and there is a reason for this. All this has made China uncomfortable but also feel emboldened.



dBSPL said:


> After the Czech Republic and Poland, Bulgaria closed its airspace to Russia.


Bulgaria was expected to tow the line, Bulgaria has a very bad history with Russia. That entire Slavic belt does.

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## lastofthepatriots

RescueRanger said:


> *O/T: *
> _Maybe I am getting old, but please can I ask friends here to say a prayer for peace, if nothing else for the future of children - regardless of their faith, colour, creed. If you don't pray, no issues, just take a minute to reflect or donate some money to UNICEF/WFP/Red Cross. _



War is bad business. I am not in favor of it, but when it comes to an invading force my sympathies always lie with the defenders.

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## Iron Shrappenel

Great Janjua said:


> Spare me ur prattle. Russian convoys have been mauled, soldiers were taken into captivity. Soviet Relics don't last long against Nato standards. The Russians have been bombing the Ukrainians for 2 days straight from cruise missiles to Groms knocking out major military warehouses and airfields alike. Yet they cannot even maintain air Superiority. Talking about their armoured thrust well that was a complete oversight. When you come expecting roasted beef you leave with a can of beans. It's called war my friend. The Russians have been pummeled by a smaller force.


Pummeled ? Are you sure ? Isolated events that are being highlighted in social media is not a pummeling.... In the same way as you claim Russia whoofing at Nato.... Nato should try and meow at Russia for once... Remember Georgia ? They've done it before they are doing it again while Biden is presenting " intelligence " report to China lmao ... he's asking for help from China... Most of the Nato countries would run away from the fight... A few hate each others guts... Meanwhile humpty dumpty calling all the men.... Oh sorry non-binary beings and unicorns to fight the bear... please stay humble and stop Nato worshipping.... It's not what it used to be..

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## dBSPL

Putin was the second leader in recent history to openly call on a country's army to stage a coup. ( guess the first one?)

However, less than a day later, the following statement was made:

Spokesperson of the President of Ukraine: "Kiev and Moscow are discussing the place and time of the negotiations."

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## jamal18

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Yes they are being uncovered and it shows that they're absolutely dominant.
> 
> US took 3 weeks to enter Baghdad in 2003 after beating Iraq down for over 10 years in a 6v1. Russia already encircling Kiev in a 1v1 surprise attack. This is one of the fastest conquests in history.



Let's wait and see. We don't know until it's over. Early days yet.

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## Primus

lastofthepatriots said:


> War is bad business. I am not in favor of it, but when it comes to an invading force my sympathies always lie with the defenders.


What happens if the defenders was Israel or India?

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## Tshering22

This is a turning point for the European Union. The EU leadership, namely France and Germany must take a step back and assess the situation. Vladimir Putin is not a threat to them; he has no interest in annexing the very countries that finance his country's budget. 

Macron has to take the step to reach out to Putin through back channels and get this cleared. Playing the archaic Cold War game is just impractical, costly and only benefits the global liberal elitists who are sitting atop an obscene amount of wealth already.

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## QWECXZ

lastofthepatriots said:


> War is bad business. I am not in favor of it, but when it comes to an invading force my sympathies always lie with the defenders.


I sympathize with the Ukrainians too, but it wasn't wise of them to poke the bear. And I mean that literally.

Starting from 2014, Ukraine has become increasingly anti-Russia. And not just anti-Russia as in against Russia, but anti-Russian in a ultra-nationalist sense. Even Ukrainians that spoke Russian or were of Russian origin were attacked and targeted. They brought this on themselves when they rioted and overthrew their government in 2014, when only few months later a new presidential election was due. And they relied too much on the false promises of NATO. So, although I do sympathize with Ukraine because its sovereignty is being violated by a military power, but I cannot blame Russia for this either.

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## Wergeland

Great Janjua said:


> You don't get the gist do you. Most of the Muslim countries have been and are extremely corrupt those who prosecute their people who are they to point fingers at other nations they have brought it upon themselves. It's in the Muslim blood to fight amongst ourselves all you need is a brain to figure that one out. Had the Muslims been peaceful with each other Saddam would have been roaming Baghdad and Gaddafi Tripoli.
> 
> You say the cold war had stable conditions...... Bloody Nora your a goofy one aren't ya pal. Think your lines through. Russia has yearnings of creating a cloaked Soviet Union in disguise, more like puppet states. Well, Nato is a bummer in their schemes.



You seem to lack comprehension.
What i laid out for you was not apologetic.
I am telling you thing as it is. Calling me adjectives wont make your retarded brain sound any more clever, if thats your goal here.

It dosent matter if muslims fight among themselves. Because the victor will be another muslim. Just like in any other intra civilization conflict. 

You think youre so clever and the only one who knows that if Russia could, they would recreate the Soviet Union. Even a 2yo child knows that. My interest lays in european stability, and in my assesment NATO pushed things too far. A buffer between NATO and Russia would be favorable for both parties imo.

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## Chacha_Facebooka

Respect for Ukrainians. At least they are fighting for their nation. Our western neighbors make a judgement on who will win the night before the battle and join the winning side.

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## Ali_Baba

RescueRanger said:


> China is going to use her veto power, and there is a reason for this. All this has made China uncomfortable but also feel emboldened.
> 
> 
> Bulgaria was expected to tow the line, Bulgaria has a very bad history with Russia. That entire Slavic belt does.



We will find out tonight !!!! ( uk time ).

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## gambit

Meengla said:


> Yes.
> I am surprised a generally well informed person like @gambit would think China would be in a worse position after this. I bet all Chinese members here are in 7th Heaven with what's going on and I don't blame them on bit!


Because unlike most people here, I try to research opinions and analyses at least five yrs ahead and at least one layer below the obvious. Granted, the further ahead, the murkier the data, but the bottom line is that am willing to do the work. Most people here are more interested in venting at US satisfying their childish emotions.

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## Bleek

gambit said:


> Ooooohhhh...You guys have no idea how useful the F-35 is even when it is *OUTSIDE* the borders of conflict areas. Just because we do not publish what the F-35 found, it does not mean its flights are useless. But am glad that *YOU* mock the F-35 and I hope more people thinks shallowly like you do.


It's capabilities are truly unknown and out of this world, I agree

Outside of its borders, not only has it proven to be a stealth aircraft, but also a stealth submarine, even the owners were struggling to track it down. 

Looking forward to see what else it can do, but we have to wait for it to finish refuelling in Poland first...

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## Foinikas

Tshering22 said:


> This is a turning point for the European Union. The EU leadership, namely France and Germany must take a step back and assess the situation. Vladimir Putin is not a threat to them; he has no interest in annexing the very countries that finance his country's budget.
> 
> Macron has to take the step to reach out to Putin through back channels and get this cleared. Playing the archaic Cold War game is just impractical, costly and only benefits the global liberal elitists who are sitting atop an obscene amount of wealth already.


Somehow it's the British who are obsessed with Russia. The Germans don't want sanctions and the French tried to mediate with the Russians to find a solution. So who wants war? The Americans,the British and some of the countries that border Russia.

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## Wergeland

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Yes they are being uncovered and it shows that they're absolutely dominant.
> 
> US took 3 weeks to enter Baghdad in 2003 after beating Iraq down for over 10 years in a 6v1. Russia already encircling Kiev in a 1v1 surprise attack. This is one of the fastest conquests in history.



Ukraine is NOT a NATO member you know?
There is a ocean difference between attacking Ukraine and a NATO member.


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## dBSPL

Latest status:

Kiev is under heavy bombardment.
The Russian army tried to enter the Summy 5 times in today, but suffered heavy losses, the city is calm for now.
Kharkov is under constant bombardment.
Donbass front line situation is same
Mariopul (still) under the control of the Ukrainian army
Matipol controllin by Russian army.
Kherson is under attack.
Troops advancing from Crimea are trying to control fresh water resources.

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## gambit

Beast said:


> The war will be over by tomorrow. Thanks to NATO ( *No Action Talk Only* )


That be your China, buddy.


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## The Eagle

dBSPL said:


> Spokesperson of the President of Ukraine: "Kiev and Moscow are discussing the place and time of the negotiations."



The place will be Warsaw, Poland I guess and for many reasons.

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## mike2000 is back

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Hitler didn't make demands much after 1939. He just attacked Poland, France, Netherlands, Belgium and Soviets with no warning.


Nope he always gave fake silly excuses for invasion. For a start, To justify his invasion of poland(starting WWII officially since Britain and France had to declare war on him as they had no more choice after trying to appease Hitler for years by making concessions) , Nazi propagandists accused Poland of persecuting ethnic Germans living in Poland(same slogan Putin has been using with Ukraine, Georgia and his other baltic neighbors for intervention. Lol). They also falsely claimed that Poland was planning, with its allies Great Britain and France, to encircle and dismember Germany. The SS, in collusion with the German military, staged a phony attack on a German radio station. The Germans falsely accused the Poles of this attack. Hitler then used the action to launch a “retaliatory” campaign against Poland. 😆
Sounds very similar to how Japan also used similar excuses to invade China proper. Lol 
Big powers are used to such games, so nothing new here. Same tactic, different era. Excuses have to be made for an invasion after all. 😁

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## Tshering22

The Eagle said:


> India is currently in so much of silent mode and hiding to avoid any questions. I wish that India is invited to join NATO. What comes next is something else. Apparently, India is already in LEMOA and QUAD but also playing well with silence for Ukraine which is called out by many behind the closed doors in D.C.


Our official position is clear; 

We do not support any military solution or factors that provoked a military action;
We understand that there are legitimate security concerns for everyone here: Ukraine's sovereignty and Russia's concerns of stationing NATO missiles;
NATO, Ukraine and Russia need to sit together and have an earnest discussion on how to address all parties' concerns here.


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## lastofthepatriots

Huffal said:


> What happens if the defenders was Israel or India?



Those countries commit genocide, so a war may be justified against them, but I’m always in favor settling things over dialogue. War should always be the last option. Human life is very precious. After these people die, the land is still going to be there.

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## RescueRanger

Listening to Ambassador Linda Thomas-Greenfield deliver her speech at the UN, some points she made were very eloquently expressed, others just further highlight the hypocrisy, duplicity and desperation of the WEST right now.

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## Ali_Baba

Wow - India trying to bypass Western sanctions 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497162914586898475

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## Abid123

Awan68 said:


> What conventional capabilities have been uncovered, care to explain?, what part of the invasion did not live up to ur call of duty standards?


PDF members thinking that Russia has unveiled its "conventional capabilities"? How delusional can you get? Russia didn't even unleash 10% of it's power upon Ukraine LOL.... If it went all out the battle would be over in a day.

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## CrazyZ

Tshering22 said:


> Our official position is clear;
> 
> We do not support any military solution or factors that provoked a military action;
> We understand that there are legitimate security concerns for everyone here: Ukraine's sovereignty and Russia's concerns of stationing NATO missiles;
> NATO, Ukraine and Russia need to sit together and have an earnest discussion on how to address all parties' concerns here.


To summarize: India to USA and EU.......we are only your strategic partners when we need something. A rules based order only applies to the "Indo-Pacific".


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## lastofthepatriots

https://imgur.com/a/FbhoaJM


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## dBSPL

Russia will probably set up a radar station on the snake island. 13 miles from Romania. One of Russia's most strategic moves. They will never leave this island.





Very stressful days are starting for Romania. By using this island, Russia can intervene and even claim the possible energy fields in the North Black Sea. Also, the Aegis system in Romania is also an important component for NATO BMD defense.

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## gambit

Bleek said:


> It's capabilities are truly unknown and out of this world, I agree
> 
> Outside of its borders, not only has it proven to be a stealth aircraft, but also a stealth submarine, even the owners were struggling to track it down.
> 
> Looking forward to see what else it can do, but we have to wait for it to finish *refuelling in Poland first*...


Air refueling is for more than just going from point A to point B.

When I was on the F-111, its primary mission was to penetrate Soviet airspace and drop the Big Bang, so air refueling was mostly for the purpose of going long distance with almost zero stop along the way. Then when I transferred to the F-16, air refueling became more than just extending its reach but also its loitering time over target areas.

So for the F-35 with its still largely mysterious intelligence data gathering capabilities, what do you think air refueling is for? Why? How long? Where orbit? Altitude? Because its AESA radar and IR sensors that have high resolution, what were its nose pointing at?

So by all means, mock the F-35 as it air refuel over Poland. You may bring in Pierre Sprey to join your fun.

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## The Eagle

Tshering22 said:


> Our official position is clear;
> 
> We do not support any military solution or factors that provoked a military action;
> We understand that there are legitimate security concerns for everyone here: Ukraine's sovereignty and Russia's concerns of stationing NATO missiles;
> NATO, Ukraine and Russia need to sit together and have an earnest discussion on how to address all parties' concerns here.



First of all, your own position was not clear, I mean the correct location so I had to correct it. (On a lighter note).

Secondly, I don't think such a position is what QUAD or LEMOA expects. I understand India's official (right) position but, let see where it leads. It wasn't about official position of India, at-least I see that since begining. It matters how it has been looked by US and allies in view if India being a trusted and dependable partner. I think you have missed some official or think tanks been asking questions about India's current silence or as you said, official position.


----------



## Awan68

Abid123 said:


> PDF members thinking that Russia has unveiled its "conventional capabilities"? How delusional can you get? Russia didn't even unleash 10% of it's power upon Ukraine LOL.... If it went all out the battle would be over in a day.


Exactly, there are a lot of wannabe western bootlicking cheerleaders here. They dont understand that Russia is taking a very light handed approach with Ukarine because they plan to annex large portions of the country and install and pupper regime in whats left.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Wergeland said:


> Ukraine is NOT a NATO member you know?
> There is a ocean difference between attacking Ukraine and a NATO member.



And Iraq is not Russia or China yet that didn't stop people from making the comparison. Also, I never mentioned NATO.

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## FairAndUnbiased

gambit said:


> That be your China, buddy.



Really? China never makes a threat. China warns once, no more, and then just acts. Happened in Korea, happened in India, happened in Vietnam.


----------



## PoondolotoPandalum

gambit said:


> Air refueling is for more than just going from point A to point B.
> 
> When I was on the F-111, its primary mission was to penetrate Soviet airspace and drop the Big Bang, so air refueling was mostly for the purpose of going long distance with almost zero stop along the way. Then when I transferred to the F-16, air refueling became more than just extending its reach but also its loitering time over target areas.
> 
> So for the F-35 with its still largely mysterious intelligence data gathering capabilities, what do you think air refueling is for? Why? How long? Where orbit? Altitude? Because its AESA radar and IR sensors that have high resolution, what were its nose pointing at?
> 
> So by all means, mock the F-35 as it air refuel over Poland. You may bring in Pierre Sprey to join your fun.



The beauty of the internet is, you can be whatever you want to be


----------



## RescueRanger

lastofthepatriots said:


> https://imgur.com/a/FbhoaJM


*I recognize a an orbital floor blowout fracture when I see one.*




_This man will need emergency treatment very soon to avoid permanent loss of vision and life long facial deformity. _

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## Man of steel23

gambit said:


> Really...???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finland says debate on NATO membership ‘will change’ after Russian invasion
> 
> 
> Finish Prime Minister Sanna Marin on Thursday said Russia’s invasion of Ukraine will change the debate around NATO membership within her country.”Finland is not currently facing an immed…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thehill.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finish Prime Minister Sanna Marin on Thursday said Russia’s invasion of Ukraine will change the debate around NATO membership within her country.​​"Finland is not currently facing an immediate military threat, but it is also now clear that the debate on NATO membership in Finland will change," Marin said, YLE News reported.​​Finland has been debating for months whether the country should apply for NATO membership, with Marin saying it would require broad support for the country to move forward with an application.​​There are two types of membership for any club: explicit and implicit. Or overt and covert, if you want another explanation.
> 
> Explicit and overt are self explanatory. The membership is open for everyone to see. But implicit and covert are different and actually more serious. Implicit is theoretical or virtual. The ideals of the club are attractive and may actually be common to aspirants. Covert is where even though membership is not official, there are cooperation between active club members and the aspirants.
> 
> Спасибо, Vladimir Putin, for securing future NATO members of both types.



Evidence that Finland is next with certainity 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496047634674552832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496047639720345602

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496047678882562051

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497186585674235907

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## dBSPL

Ali_Baba said:


> Wow - India trying to bypass Western sanctions
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497162914586898475


I hope we do the same.

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## RescueRanger

PoondolotoPandalum said:


> The beauty of the internet is, you can be whatever you want to be


You may not know this but Gambit is a respected member despite our differences in opinion, his career in the military is beyond doubt here. Thank you.

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## Tshering22

Foinikas said:


> Somehow it's the British who are obsessed with Russia. The Germans don't want sanctions and the French tried to mediate with the Russians to find a solution. So who wants war? The Americans,the British and some of the countries that border Russia.


Very well observed. 

Even Zelensky played down the war rhetoric that was being trumpeted by Boris and Biden. Macron took the pains of meeting Putin and Scholz vetoed banning Russia from SWIFT. This clearly indicates that collectively, MOST Europeans do not want a war with Russia but want to maintain normal, commercial ties. 

Only Poland & Czechia, with their deep distrust of European powers, are blindly backing the US due to their troubled history with the Russians. 

It almost seems like the UK wants to destroy the EU after having left the Union themselves. And by joining the American-led Anglosphere, it is leaving no stones turned to ensure that German and French voices weaken to a whisper, while appearing as the bigger power towards which other European nations gravitate.

Shrewd politics. There's a reason why London had the largest colonial empire in the world.

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## Khanate

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497088832701079552



QWECXZ said:


> I sympathize with the Ukrainians too, but it wasn't wise of them to poke the bear. And I mean that literally.
> 
> Starting from 2014, Ukraine has become increasingly anti-Russia. And not just anti-Russia as in against Russia, but anti-Russian in a ultra-nationalist sense. Even Ukrainians that spoke Russian or were of Russian origin were attacked and targeted. They brought this on themselves when they rioted and overthrew their government in 2014, when only few months later a new presidential election was due. And they relied too much on the false promises of NATO. So, although I do sympathize with Ukraine because its sovereignty is being violated by a military power, but I cannot blame Russia for this either.




Both Zelenskyy and the pro-Western oligarchs have overplayed their hand since Euromaidan.

NATO/West was never coming to Ukraine's rescue. Same goes for India vs China.

Ukraine have lost Crimea, DPR and LPR and is fighting the war *alone*.

All this for what? Sanctions and condemnations?

They/them in NATO should locate their balls.

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## RescueRanger

Great Janjua said:


> faggot


This is your first and final warning, that kind of language is NOT welcome here. Please make yourself accustom to our rules on posting:



Forum Rules

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## Tshering22

Ali_Baba said:


> Wow - India trying to bypass Western sanctions
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497162914586898475


Simply re-hashing an old mechanism that we used since USSR's time. India only accepts UNSC sanctions as per our policy, not individual countries' sanctions. 

While we have full sympathies for the suffering of common Ukrainians, they should be bashing their idiotic President who provoked Russia by opening clamouring to join NATO and triggering this war.

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## lastofthepatriots

Heavy fighting in Kiev right now. Very little news being reported because it’s night time. And the city is in a bit of panic.

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## gambit

Wergeland said:


> It wasnt like Sweden and Finland didnt want to become NATO members in the past either you know? But fear of Soviet hostility made them go for neutrality. Of course that changed when soviet power collapsed.
> 
> If the consequnece of Finnish and Swedish NATO aspiration is what what see in Ukraine today, then that is not what i wish for my scandinavian brotherly nations.


Too late. What you want is irrelevant, and I say that kindly. What Putin did, is relevant.

Like I said earlier about the re-release of the Budapest Agreement of 1994, everyone will see that either NATO membership or non-membership is irrelevant. As long as Russia even *PERCEIVE* that your country is a threat or that your country was once a Soviet satellite and must return to the Russian fold, your country will be a target. Ukraine returned 1700 nuclear warheads to Russia and got invaded. Not because of any potential NATO membership but because Putin want his name attached to the re-glorification of Russia as an empire. Unfortunately, that NATO membership talk just gave Putin a convenient cover. But that cover is unraveling. Even your fellow Scandinavians acknowledged that.


----------



## RescueRanger

lastofthepatriots said:


> Heavy fighting in Kiev right now. Very little news being reported because it’s night time. And the city is in a bit of panic.


There is a live webcam, let me find it

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## Tshering22

CrazyZ said:


> To summarize: India to USA and EU.......we are only your strategic partners when we need something. A rules based order only applies to the "Indo-Pacific".



As if they came to us the moment we asked for them. 

They have remained neutral in our disagreements with China. The only reason they came to the APAC region is because of Taiwan, Japan and the recent spate of diplomatic wars between Australia and China. 

I don't understand what makes most Pakistani members here assume that we are in the NATO (or any other) bandwagon just because of cordial agreements with Western countries. 

One does not have to hate someone in order to appreciate or align with someone else, you know.


----------



## dBSPL

How about we don't bring the propaganda memes here? I would be grateful if we do not consume our internet packages for nothing. 

I have already full of captive videos taken by Ukraine, the commanders addressing the Russian peoples, and of course, lots lots of similar memes(from both sides) on my social media feed.

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## RescueRanger

lastofthepatriots said:


> Heavy fighting in Kiev right now. Very little news being reported because it’s night time. And the city is in a bit of panic.


Here you go:

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## gambit

Zibago said:


> Bay of pigs?


At least we did not say were were 'surrounded'.


----------



## Foinikas

Tshering22 said:


> Even Zelensky played down the war rhetoric that was being trumpeted by Boris and Biden. Macron took the pains of meeting Putin and Scholz vetoed banning Russia from SWIFT. This clearly indicates that collectively, MOST Europeans do not want a war with Russia but want to maintain normal, commercial ties.


And not just that. Some European countries need the gas,others simply don't want to fight because there are afraid of Russia and others are simply not hostile to Russia. Like the Hungarians,Slovaks,Greece and Bulgaria. Some others have a hatred for Russia because of the Soviet era,like Estonia and a lot of Poles too. But I doubt Poland wants war. Especially when they have Kaliningrad next to them and the Germans are not willing to help them much. And it's the British who are on on the other side of Europe who want to send forces and fight.

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## RescueRanger

*UNSC: 
11 in favor 1 against 3 abstention. *

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## ber123

Turk drones putting fear in Putin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497310882069581824

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497341055561261056


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## S10

RescueRanger said:


> *UNSC:
> 11 in favor 1 against 3 abstention. *


What was the topic?


----------



## RescueRanger

Great Janjua said:


> Was it intended for you or any other member? I don't think so mate. Stop being a peck.


Forum rules apply to all members, if you don't like it either follow the rule or you are free to not post. Thank you. Learn to regulate your thoughts.

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## FuturePAF

jamahir said:


> There shouldn't be only Muslim-majority regions in that list. Non-Muslim-majority Venezuela is being bullied too by NATO. It too doesn't have the world's attention now.


Those in the know are watching Venezuela (and Cuba and Nicaragua) for Russian troop deployments and deployment of “strategic” systems. A new Cuban missile crisis might be brewing and we even have an Irishman in the White House. Deja Vu ‘eh


----------



## RescueRanger

S10 said:


> What was the topic?


Resolution against Russia. - China, UAE and India Abstained.

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## QWECXZ

RescueRanger said:


> *UNSC:
> 11 in favor 1 against 3 abstention. *


More detail please? Source? Who voted what?


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## Khanate

UNSC vote

*Against*: Russia

*Abstain*: China, India, UAE

11 in favour, 1 against and 3 abstain

Resolution not adopted due to veto by Russia

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497341698103558150


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## Awan68

Great Janjua said:


> Spare me ur prattle. Russian convoys have been mauled, soldiers were taken into captivity. Soviet Relics don't last long against Nato standards. The Russians have been bombing the Ukrainians for 2 days straight from cruise missiles to Groms knocking out major military warehouses and airfields alike. Yet they cannot even maintain air Superiority. Talking about their armoured thrust well that was a complete oversight. When you come expecting roasted beef you leave with a can of beans. It's called war my friend. The Russians have been pummeled by a smaller force.


Lol, as i suspected, nothing but a call of duty wannabe, when two countries go to war losses happen on both sides, what did u expect, Russia would take Ukarine with zero casualties? what are u basing ur Russians getting mauled analysis on anyways?, a few twitter videos run by the western propoganda machine that are known pathological liars?, taking out a country the size of Ukarine which had advanced AD and conventional capabilities is no cake walk, Iraq was much much weaker and it took the yanks a month to reach baghdad with 300k troops and full on US airforce in the skies. Russia got to Kiev in 2 days and that is one of if not the finest armoured charges seen in the 21st century, again stop being a boy of west, stop licking there feet cause u saw cowboys in yankee movies, the real world aint hollywood. Let me give u a kiddy lesson here, Russia only employed about 10% of its resources in Ukarine, 50-60 k troops backed by less than a hundred jets, they did that cause they dont want to be too heavy handed on the Ukarinain people as they plan to anex large parts of the country and dont want too much local bad blood which could prove holding those areas difficult. They are not focusing on major population centres for this very reason. There, hope that made u grow a few years.

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## Great Janjua

RescueRanger said:


> Forum rules apply to all members, if you don't like it either follow the rule or you are free to not post. Thank you. Learn to regulate your thoughts.


No answer my question then you can blabber all you like. Was it intended at you or someone else? Go on mate am waiting.


----------



## RescueRanger

QWECXZ said:


> More detail please? Source? Who voted what?




















---
*The UN Security Council has failed to pass a resolution that would condemn Russia for its military operations in Ukraine. The final vote tally was 11 votes in favor, 1 against, and 3 abstentions. As a permanent member of the UNSC, Russia vetoed the vote.*

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## S10

RescueRanger said:


> Resolution against Russia. - China, UAE and India Abstained.


Not surprised

Recognizing separatist areas as independent is a bit too much for China and India.

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## lastofthepatriots

https://imgur.com/a/Az1qMZP


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## mike2000 is back

Tshering22 said:


> Our official position is clear;
> 
> We do not support any military solution or factors that provoked a military action;
> We understand that there are legitimate security concerns for everyone here: Ukraine's sovereignty and Russia's concerns of stationing NATO missiles;
> NATO, Ukraine and Russia need to sit together and have an earnest discussion on how to address all parties' concerns here.


Fair points. China, India(like other countries) are still in a position to remain neutral and not take sides in such conflicts. Since they don't want to jeopardise its ties with any side (the west and Russia ) per se. This is still sustainable and possible since both sides have not reached the point of open hostilities and hot war yet. However if there ever comes a day where both sides turn completely hostile to a point of no return then India and the others will have to make a choice then. However we are not at that point luckily.

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## gambit

Foinikas said:


> And not just that. Some European countries need the gas,others simply don't want to fight because there are afraid of Russia and others are simply not hostile to Russia. Like the Hungarians,Slovaks,Greece and Bulgaria. Some others have a hatred for Russia because of the Soviet era,like Estonia and a lot of Poles too. But I doubt Poland wants war. Especially when they have Kaliningrad next to them and the Germans are not willing to help them much. And it's the British who are on on the other side of Europe who want to send forces and fight.


I read something revealing a long time ago...

_"You cannot be peaceful unless you are willing to do violence. If you are incapable or unwilling to do violence, then you are just harmless, not peaceful."_

Still, even if you are willing and capable of doing violence, it may not be enough to preserve yourself, hence, the need for alliances. Bullies *ALWAYS* pick off first those who are harmless and alone.

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## RescueRanger

Great Janjua said:


> No answer my question then you can blabber all you like. Was it intended at you or someone else? Go on mate am waiting.


The rules are not moot. Simple! Regardless who they apply to, you live in the UK, do you understand what homophobia is and what a hate crime is? Thank you for your ignorance.


----------



## Wergeland

Great Janjua said:


> And this retard calls me brain dead. I don't know man maybe bang your hollow head a few times until it churns out some sort of magic to comprehend this absolute gem of a piece he just somehow blabbered like a drugged Voldemort. Yet you have the audacity to call me a retard. Oh, the irony.
> 
> After this gem i think you should be the one receiving a javelin to the head instead of those poor ruskis.



You still dont get it. Youre just a rude litte child. I normally dont use insulting words but i hoped it would make you wake up from your arrogance.

You simply cannot have a conversation without getting personal or use violent language right? Now what does that tell you about your mental health.

Just discovered the ignored button, from now on its a better alternative than wasting energy and time on you.

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## Tshering22

The Eagle said:


> First of all, your own position was not clear, I mean the correct location so I had to correct it. (On a lighter note).
> 
> Secondly, I don't think such a position is what QUAD or LEMOA expects. I understand India's official (right) position but, let see where it leads. It wasn't about official position of India, at-least I see that since begining. It matters how it has been looked by US and allies in view if India being a trusted and dependable partner. I think you have missed some official or think tanks been asking questions about India's current silence or as you said, official position.



Nice one there .

Thanks for correcting the location. I just signed in after ages and didn't know what to do to reflect realtime changes.

LEMOA is a logistics agreement between American and Indian forces for specific designated bases for operational or technical purposes. It is not our accession into the NATO by any extent. 

This would be like expecting the Americans to sanction China for our disagreements with the latter. No sane European or Western Ally would ever do that for us. 

At this point, the Americans are not even able to convince their fellow NATO allies, Germany, Italy, Cyprus and Hungary to ban Russia from SWIFT. Let alone non-NATO friendly countries.


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## mike2000 is back

S10 said:


> Not surprised
> 
> Recognizing separatist areas as independent is a bit too much for China and India.


More like they are scared to set a precedent where their own separatists groups can then be given a legitimate voice internationally to be recognised and even actively militarily supported as well. So this doesn't serve their interests either, reason they are very wary of this Russian action of recognising separatists groups in sovereign countries. . Sets a very dangerous precedent for both countries, which is the last thing they want. Everyone is looking out for their interests, no such thing as a friend in geo politics. Lol


----------



## lastofthepatriots

Unconfirmed reports of a russian jet going down.

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## Tshering22

mike2000 is back said:


> Fair points. China, India(like other countries) is still in a position to remain neutral and not take sides. Since it doesn't want to jeopardise its ties with any side (the west and Russia ). This is still sustainable and possible since both sides have not reached the point of open hostilities and hot war yet. However if there ever comes a day where both sides turn completely hostile to a point of no return then India and the others will have to make a choice then. However we are not at that point luckily.



British politicians are some of the most shrewd chaps out there. Using this opportunity to take leadership in Europe, while showing France and Germany down is nothing short of a genius game BoJo is playing.

He might look like either a fool or a warmonger from a third person's perspective but I admire the brain that is advising him to take a more aggressive stance in Europe to establish UK as the dominant European voice, despite being outside the EU.


----------



## F-22Raptor

lastofthepatriots said:


> Unconfirmed reports of a russian jet going down.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497343737558712329

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497344191474528258

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## Great Janjua

Awan68 said:


> Lol, as i suspected, nothing but a call of duty wannabe, when two countries go to war losses happen on both sides, what did u expect, Russia would take Ukarine with zero casualties? what are u basing ur Russians getting mauled analysis on anyways?, a few twitter videos run by the western propoganda machine that are known pathological liars?, taking out a country the size of Ukarine which had advanced AD and conventional capabilities is no cake walk, Iraq was much much weaker and it took the yanks a month to reach baghdad with 300k troops and full on US airforce in the skies. Russia got to Kiev in 2 days and that is one of if not the finest armoured charges seen the 2st century, again stop being a boy of west, stop licking there feat cause u saw cowboys in yankee movies, the real world aint hollywood.


Did i hit your Kremlin nerves there buddy. Ruskies getting a mauling is no good enough reason for you to lift their balls am afraid. I would have heartily criticised Ukraine if they had been the aggressors unlike you i don't lift the ding dongs. The rest of your prattle is just blabber.


----------



## Wergeland

gambit said:


> Too late. What you want is irrelevant, and I say that kindly. What Putin did, is relevant.
> 
> Like I said earlier about the re-release of the Budapest Agreement of 1994, everyone will see that either NATO membership or non-membership is irrelevant. As long as Russia even *PERCEIVE* that your country is a threat or that your country was once a Soviet satellite and must return to the Russian fold, your country will be a target. Ukraine returned 1700 nuclear warheads to Russia and got invaded. Not because of any potential NATO membership but because Putin want his name attached to the re-glorification of Russia as an empire. Unfortunately, that NATO membership talk just gave Putin a convenient cover. But that cover is unraveling. Even your fellow Scandinavians acknowledged that.



There are many other people in europe who dont want to see another conflict in our neighborhood.

If giving Russia breathing space is enough to keep it peaceful then let it be it.

Not sure about what Putin wants and neither is you tbh. Only he knows. Matter of the fact is that european nations themselves has to find ways to coexist, without external interference or dependence. Europe has to learn to stand up for itself so that it can control its own destiny.

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## gambit

mike2000 is back said:


> Nope he always gave fake silly excuses for invasion. For a start, To justify his invasion of poland(starting WWII officially since Britain and France had to declare war on him as they had no more choice after trying to appease Hitler for years by making concessions) , Nazi propagandists accused Poland of persecuting ethnic Germans living in Poland(same slogan Putin has been using with Ukraine, Georgia and his other baltic neighbors for intervention. Lol). They also falsely claimed that Poland was planning, with its allies Great Britain and France, to encircle and dismember Germany. The SS, in collusion with the German military, staged a phony attack on a German radio station. The Germans falsely accused the Poles of this attack. Hitler then used the action to launch a “retaliatory” campaign against Poland. 😆
> Sounds very similar to how Japan also used similar excuses to invade China proper. Lol
> Big powers are used to such games, so nothing new here. Excuses have to be made for an invasion after all. 😁


So overall, Hitler accused others of "not addressing Germany's security concerns". Kinda sounds familiar here, ain't it?

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## dBSPL

ber123 said:


> Turk drones putting fear in Putin
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497310882069581824


This is a clear propaganda video, the speech is not spontaneous, it is prepared. The Ukrainian army is resisting, but the situation is not so simple.

Part of my life has been spent trying to learn about psyop activities in world-famous wars. I will not pretend to be a so-called expert here, but as everyone knows, the most important thing in war is not to kill, but to break the will of the enemy.

footnote: The uav called Bayraktar is just a tactical drone, nothing miraculous. the aircraft is only part of an entire system.

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## Ali_Baba

Khanate said:


> UNSC vote
> 
> *Against*: Russia
> 
> *Abstain*: China, India, UAE
> 
> 11 in favour, 1 against and 3 abstain
> 
> Resolution not adopted due to veto by Russia


UAE is gonna get on the FATF grey list for sure now I reckon…

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497301203327328260

Reuters now reporting on Russian supply and logistics issues.

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## CrazyZ

Tshering22 said:


> As if they came to us the moment we asked for them.
> 
> They have remained neutral in our disagreements with China. The only reason they came to the APAC region is because of Taiwan, Japan and the recent spate of diplomatic wars between Australia and China.
> 
> I don't understand what makes most Pakistani members here assume that we are in the NATO (or any other) bandwagon just because of cordial agreements with Western countries.
> 
> One does not have to hate someone in order to appreciate or align with someone else, you know.


All well and good but India is the largest purchaser of Russian arms. Supporting the Russian arms industry is threat to western security. India can't claim to be a strategic ally of the USA and threaten its security at the same time. IMO, India will find a hard time evading western sanctions on Russian defense purchases going forward.

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## The Eagle

Tshering22 said:


> At this point, the Americans are not even able to convince their fellow NATO allies, Germany, Italy, Cyprus and Hungary to ban Russia from SWIFT. Let alone non-NATO friendly countries.



These names have agreed, I think. Or did I miss?


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## terry5

Chelsea for the cup lol


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## Ali_Baba

Khanate said:


> UNSC vote
> 
> *Against*: Russia
> 
> *Abstain*: China, India, UAE
> 
> 11 in favour, 1 against and 3 abstain
> 
> Resolution not adopted due to veto by Russia



India abstaining is being noted with disappointment by all commentators right now. 
Good thing Pakistan is not in the council rota right now ….. India can have the hot seat for now.

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## Turingsage

Certain bits of information are important to remember.

Ukraine population VOTED by 70% in multi party elections that brought Volodymyr Zelenskyy to power.

7 out of ten people in Russia are against this invasion.

9 out of 10 people in Russia are against support for the breakaway Donetsk and Luhansk regions

The Elite capture of Russia by the extremely rich Oligarch's bears no resemblance to the Soviet Union and is not underpinned by any ideology except that of personal aggrandizement and the absolute love of power.

By the way Volodymyr Zelenskyy whom Putin calls a Nazi is a Jewish comedian elected to get rid if corruption and a responsive government.

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## Inception-06

My observation: I think NATO air assets are providing full coverage of Russian air and ground picture to Ukraine Forces, may be even jamming Russian equipment @gambit is that possible ?


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## Brainsucker

RescueRanger said:


> *Or they can just siege the city? *


Yes, they have already have some experience in City warfare some years ago. I think that it was in Chechnya. They shouldn't be so ignorant for this kind of war.

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## Foinikas

gambit said:


> I read something revealing a long time ago...
> 
> _"You cannot be peaceful unless you are willing to do violence. If you are incapable or unwilling to do violence, then you are just harmless, not peaceful."_
> 
> Still, even if you are willing and capable of doing violence, it may not be enough to preserve yourself, hence, the need for alliances. Bullies *ALWAYS* pick off first those who are harmless and alone.


And Russia is the bully? But NATO who has been expanding and surrounding Russia in Europe and the Americans with bases everywhere,are not the bully but the protector? The Cold War is over. Once upon a time there was a gentlemen's agreement between Stalin and Churchill about the spheres of influence in Europe.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497346330796167175

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497345957230522369

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## Ali_Baba

Inception-06 said:


> My observation: I think NATO air assets are providing full coverage of Russian air and ground picture to Ukraine Forces, may be even jamming Russian equipment @gambit is that possible ?


I agree - nato is providing the full air picture to Ukraine c&c systems for sure. Ukraine radars maybe down but it seems that Ukraine can pick and chose when and what it needs to shoot down. So they still have active SAM units in the field.

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## Inception-06

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497346330796167175



Only possible with help of western Forces. And if true, it seems Russians are helpless regarding the air contests and control.


----------



## Stealth

ber123 said:


> Turk drones putting fear in Putin
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497310882069581824



Ukrainian reaction is pretty much same as Indian reaction on 27 Feb

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## dBSPL

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497301203327328260
> 
> Reuters now reporting on Russian supply and logistics issues.


Look at the neutralized vehicles in the first contact troops from D1. The downed KA-52s didn't even have an exhaust suppressor. It was shot down with simple rpg. Some problems of Russia are clearly visible. Unfortunately, even world-renowned news agencies do not have experts to deal with these issues in detail. The knowledge level of most of them is as much as so called facebook-twitter experts.

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## jamal18

Wergeland said:


> There are many other people in europe who dont want to see another conflict in our neighborhood.
> 
> If giving Russia breathing space is enough to keep it peaceful then let it be it.
> 
> Not sure about what Putin wants and neither is you tbh. Only he knows. Matter of the fact is that european nations themselves has to find ways to coexist, without external interference or dependence. Europe has to learn to stand up for itself so that it can control its own destiny.


It is not what 'Putin' wants. This is terminology used to portray a certain narrative. It is what Russia wants. Both China and India have used the phrase Russia's 'legitimate security concern'.

Since the end of the Cold war the West has been pushing Nato eastwards, despite Russia voicing it's concern. The West has not listened. It is not the Russians that are the aggressors, they are reacting to the west's aggression.

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## F-22Raptor

Inception-06 said:


> Only possible with help of western Forces.



Over 100 Russian paratroopers onboard

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## khansaheeb

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497343737558712329
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497344191474528258


Happened in 2014, fake news, and it was a Ukrainian one.

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## Englishman

China abstaining 

Wonder if HMS Queen Elizabeth had anything to do with it?

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## Tshering22

CrazyZ said:


> All well and good but India is the largest purchaser of Russian arms. Supporting the Russian arms industry is threat to western security. India can't claim to be a strategic ally of the USA and threaten its security at the same time. IMO, India will find a hard time evading western sanctions on Russian defense purchases going forward.



I agree. It will be a tough sell. But then we will simply ask them the stuff that Russia is ready to share with us. If they do, well and good. Otherwise, we have a reason. We want a good relationship with US but not to be their a$$wipe. If there are 10 points on which we agree a lot, there will be at least 4 or 5 points on which we also disagree. It has to be respected. 

Expecting us to be like Japan or Korea (politically) is unrealistic & won't be accepted.

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## RescueRanger

NATO Chief: Cyber Can Trigger Article 5​








NATO Chief: Cyber Can Trigger Article 5


NATO leaders on Wednesday reiterated the alliance's stance on treating cyber attacks against a member as an Article 5 issue, which would potentially draw a military response from the entire alliance.




www.defensenews.com

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## gambit

Wergeland said:


> There are many other people in europe who dont want to see another conflict in our neighborhood.


Neither do we from the other hemisphere. I was stationed at RAF Upper Heyford for three yrs when I was on the F-111. I would not trade a single second of that time in the UK and on CONEUR. Beautiful land and beautiful peoples can be found everywhere in the world, so enjoy them wherever you can find them. And as a hetero male, I definitely enjoyed the beautiful women.



Wergeland said:


> If giving Russia breathing space is enough to keep it peaceful then let it be it.


Back in 1994, Ukraine gave up 1700 nuclear warheads back to Russia based on a *NON-LEGAL* document that Russia will not attack. That is 1700 permanent security assurances that became permanently gone. You think Russia care about 'space'?

I do not know you personally, so I say this kindly: That comment is spinelessness.



Wergeland said:


> Not sure about what Putin wants and neither is you tbh. Only he knows. Matter of the fact is that european nations themselves has to find ways to coexist, without external interference or dependence. Europe haa to learn to stand up for itself so that it can control its own destiny.


The problem with peaceful coexistence is finding shared ideologies. What does Russia share with you?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497348101564092417


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## Inception-06

F-22Raptor said:


> Over 100 Russian paratroopers onboard



How is that possible, it let look the Russians like vodka mentality style war planners.


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## F-22Raptor

Inception-06 said:


> How is that possible, it let look the Russians like woodka mentality style war planing.




Once again confirming the Pentagons assessment that Russia still does NOT have air superiority over Ukraine.

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## Ali_Baba

Inception-06 said:


> How is that possible, it let look the Russians like woodka mentality style war planing.


Russian commanders are being pressured by their higher ups to make decisions to “speed things up before they are ready” and It is causing these types of snafu’s.


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## gambit

Foinikas said:


> *And Russia is the bully?* But NATO who has been expanding and surrounding Russia in Europe and the Americans with bases everywhere,are not the bully but the protector? The Cold War is over. Once upon a time there was a gentlemen's agreement between Stalin and Churchill about the spheres of influence in Europe.


Which part of in 1994 Ukraine gave up 1700 nuclear warheads back to Russia on a *NON-LEGAL* document did you not understand?


----------



## Sayfullah

UN is a joke. UN is only good for bullying third world countries. The real criminals behind the atrocities in the world sit in UN and veto anything against them.

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## RescueRanger

Inception-06 said:


> How is that possible, it let look the Russians like woodka mentality style war planing.


Scenes inside the war room in Moscow right now:






Skip to 0:20 secs onwards..

Movie is Firefox (1982) starring a much younger Clint Eastwood.

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## Primus

Inception-06 said:


> How is that possible, it let look the Russians like vodka mentality style war planners.


Apparently its false news.

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## Wergeland

Tshering22 said:


> British politicians are some of the most shrewd chaps out there. Using this opportunity to take leadership in Europe, while showing France and Germany down is nothing short of a genius game BoJo is playing.
> 
> He might look like either a fool or a warmonger from a third person's perspective but I admire the brain that is advising him to take a more aggressive stance in Europe to establish UK as the dominant European voice, despite being outside the EU.



That was one of main reason why UK quit EU. It wants to have it own foreign policy and compromise less with Germany-France.


Foinikas said:


> And Russia is the bully? But NATO who has been expanding and surrounding Russia in Europe and the Americans with bases everywhere,are not the bully but the protector? The Cold War is over. Once upon a time there was a gentlemen's agreement between Stalin and Churchill about the spheres of influence in Europe.



For the americans there is no middle ground. There was a time when US leaders had self restrain but that seems long gone since fall of Berlin Wall.

Its no longer about containing Russia, no Russia must not be allowed any breathing space. Now think about that. There is really no compromise. So why the heck should Russia want to compromise?

Guess whos the looser in this game? Its Central and Westen Europe. Not America and Not Russia!

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## Inception-06

F-22Raptor said:


> Once again confirming the Pentagons assessment that Russia still does NOT have air superiority over Ukraine.



From which INTACT Ukraine air Bases, and with how many Ukraine air crafts and their types are the Ukraine defending their air space ? Again are the Russians to drunken to take out Ukraine air bases ? According your news it looks like that ! There is something fishi here, I think there are NATO and US hands which are involved actively and passive in this air contests. Very interesting, and it looks like Russia is helpless regarding this fact’s.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497349261612232705

Reporter in Kiev

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## Brainsucker

khansaheeb said:


> The bear is getting wild:-​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia threatens 'serious military repercussions' if Finland joins NATO
> 
> 
> Russian Foreign Ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova said Finland's accession to NATO could 'have detrimental consequences'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uk.news.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> Russia threatens 'serious military repercussions' if Finland joins NATO​
> James Morris
> ·Freelance news writer, Yahoo UK
> Fri, 25 February 2022, 8:38 am·3-min read
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vladimir Putin's Russia today warned of 'serious military and political repercussions' if Finland joins NATO. (AFP via Getty Images)
> Russia has warned of "serious military and political repercussions" if Finland joins Nato amid the Ukraine crisis.
> Russian Foreign Ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova said the country's accession to Nato, the military alliance currently made up of 28 European countries plus the US and Canada, could "have detrimental consequences".
> Following Russia's invasion of Ukraine this week, Finnish prime minister Sanna Marin said the debate surrounding Finland's membership of NATO "will change".
> Asked about this on Friday, Zakharova began with a veiled warning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Foreign Ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova warned of 'detrimental military consequences' if Finland joins NATO. (Reuters)
> In translated remarks at a press conference, she said: "The Finnish government's policy of military non-alliance is an important factor in ensuring security and stability in northern Europe.
> "At the same time, we cannot help but note the targeted efforts of Nato and other members of this alliance to involve Finland as well as Sweden [a fellow non-member] in this alliance."
> She said "the intensity of practical interaction between Helsinki and Stockholm with Nato" is "nothing new".
> *Watch: Volodymyr Zelensky announces death toll from first day of Russian invasion of Ukraine*
> 
> 
> Ad: 0:20
> 
> 0:30
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scroll back up to restore default view.
> She claimed "they have conducted NAato's military exercises - these countries have provided territory for such manoeuvres of this military alliance.
> "We have seen this policy over a number of years... and Finland and Sweden should not base their security on damaging security of other countries. Their accession to Nato can have detrimental consequences... and face military and political consequences."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sanna Marin said the debate surrounding Finland's NATO membership has changed following Russia's invasion of Ukraine. (Getty Images)
> A follow-up tweet from the Russian Foreign Ministry read: "Finland’s accession to Nato would have serious military and political repercussions."
> Prime minister Marin previously said last month it is "very unlikely" Finland - which borders Russia - would apply for a Nato membership during her current term of office.
> *Read more: **Ukrainian reporter sees footage of destroyed flat on live TV: ‘This building is my home’*
> "All in all, I believe the Nato discussion will increase in the coming years," she had told Reuters.
> On Thursday, Nato secretary-general Jens Stoltenberg said that he "values the close partnership" with Finland and Sweden even if they are not members.
> "This is a question of self-determination and the sovereign right to choose your own path and then potentially in the future, also to apply for Nato membership."
> Putin’s invasion of Ukraine has seen Kyiv hit by air strikes, with fighting closing in on the capital.
> Families were forced to hide in bomb shelters and subway stations as troops continued their assault in a bid to seize the city.
> Tens of thousands of people have fled Ukraine's major cities to try and escape the fighting, with the UN warning on Friday that millions could be displaced.
> Armed forces minister James Heappey told MPs that 194 Ukrainians, including 57 civilians, are confirmed to have died.
> *Watch: Russia invasion of Ukraine 'not as successful as planned', says UK defence minister*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia invasion of Ukraine 'not as successful as planned', says defence minister​UK defence minister James Heappey has told the Commons that Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has so far not been as successful as planned. He also answered a question on the likelihood of the UK instituting a no-fly zone on Ukraine.



Relax, it's still the first day. If you say that the 1st day of Russian Invasion is not as successful as planned, then what about American's 3rd week entering Baghdad, Iraq mean? More failure than failure?

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

There are lots of USAF jets activities in my home town too....

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## Foinikas

gambit said:


> Which part of in 1994 Ukraine gave up 1700 nuclear warheads back to Russia on a *NON-LEGAL* document did you not understand?


Wait,there's a gazillion posts here. What are you saying? What part did I miss?


----------



## CrazyZ

Tshering22 said:


> I agree. It will be a tough sell. But then we will simply ask them the stuff that Russia is ready to share with us. If they do, well and good. Otherwise, we have a reason. We want a good relationship with US but not to be their a$$wipe. If there are 10 points on which we agree a lot, there will be at least 4 or 5 points on which we also disagree. It has to be respected.
> 
> Expecting us to be like Japan or Korea (politically) is unrealistic & won't be accepted.


I wont complain with this stance. Large portions of Indian military equipment could become stranded assets hard to upgrade or keep running. We will see in time.

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## F-22Raptor

Inception-06 said:


> From which INTACT Ukraine air Bases, and with how many Ukraine air crafts and their types are the Ukraine defending their air space ? Again are the Russians to drunken to take out Ukraine air bases ? According your news it looks like that !




The Russians haven't even touched half of Ukraine.

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497332326518382595


----------



## mike2000 is back

Tshering22 said:


> British politicians are some of the most shrewd chaps out there. Using this opportunity to take leadership in Europe, while showing France and Germany down is nothing short of a genius game BoJo is playing.
> 
> He might look like either a fool or a warmonger from a third person's perspective but I admire the brain that is advising him to take a more aggressive stance in Europe to establish UK as the dominant European voice, despite being outside the EU.


Actually this issue has shown from the beginning that Only the UK took a firm stance against Russia's action in the baltics and Ukraine . France and Germany have weirdly been relegated to slideshows, which is actually funny since you would have thought they would have been the ones taking the lead for the E.U in this matter. Instead it has been Britain who has been leading the European response despite we getting out of the E.U. I guess it has only made our foreign policy more free to pursue and further our views more widely outside E.U constraints and bureaucracy. Reason Eastern European countries ad countries from the region have been embracing Britain more enthusiastically.

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## gambit

Inception-06 said:


> My observation: I think NATO air assets are providing full coverage of Russian air and ground picture to Ukraine Forces, may be even jamming Russian equipment @gambit *is that possible *?


Technically, it is possible. But for OPSEC reasons, I will not detail how or even say if such was done. Sorry.

So what kind of tactical data could we give to Ukrainian ground fighters? The AN/APG-81 radar have a synthetic aperature mode that give near photographic details of an area. This would be critical for urban fighters to distinguish IFF.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497348136355905536

Head of the Ukrainian Air Force has confirmed the Il-76 shoot down

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## Inception-06

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians haven't even touched half of Ukraine.



I know that, they want Kiew, but without air space control ? Sound very stupid to me.


----------



## dBSPL

Ukraine has some tactical ballistic capabilities, although not very precise. Tochka-U etc... Yesterday they managed to attack the military base in Rostov. Another remarkable news yesterday was the Russian jet arsoned in Russian base... So we can talk some hybrid wars in some extent. 

I don't know if the news about the crash of the plane that these paratroopers were carrying is true, but I can't say it's unlikely. If Russia lost 100 paratrooper commandos, it could become a major source of stress for the domestic public.

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## F-22Raptor

dBSPL said:


> Ukraine has some tactical ballistic capabilities, although not very precise. Tochka-U etc... Yesterday they managed to attack the military base in Rostov. Another remarkable news yesterday was the Russian jet arsoned in Russian base... So we can talk some hybrid wars in some extent.
> 
> I don't know if the news about the crash of the plane that these paratroopers were carrying is true, but I can't say it's unlikely. If Russia lost 100 paratrooper commandos, it could become a major source of stress for the domestic public.




The Il-76 can actually be double decked to carry up to 225 paratroopers

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## gambit

Foinikas said:


> Wait,there's a gazillion posts here. What are you saying? What part did I miss?


As you wish...









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


The Russian information service published the photo. Mutual political messages continue. The only difference is that while westerners prefer to talk about economic sanctions, Russia persistently threatens Europe with a nuclear apocalypse. A wise guy said. Anything that can happen, will...



defence.pk

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## Sayfullah

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497332326518382595


What’s the point of this money now? In the 8 years after Crimea was occupied, they didn’t bother upgrading Ukrainian air five or air defences. No patriot’s, no thaad’s, no f-16’s, n f-15’s. They sent javelin’s and stinger’s basically for nothing. Americans used Ukraine as their sacrificial goat.

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## RescueRanger

Jf-17 block 3 said:


> What’s the point of this money now? In the 8 years after Crimea was occupied, they didn’t bother upgrading Ukrainian air five or air defences. No patriot’s, no thaad’s, no f-16’s, n f-15’s. They sent javelin’s and stinger’s basically for nothing. Americans used Ukraine as their sacrificial goat.


Optics.

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## The Eagle

Zekensky: Fate of Ukraine being decided tonight.

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## Dai Toruko

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497247647597486088

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## khansaheeb

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> There are lots of USAF jets activities in my home town too....


There was increased activity since last few years, so the US was planning for this well before. I thought they were preparing for Iran but I do get things wrong sometimes.

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## Sayfullah

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497350956748468227


----------



## Hack-Hook

reflecthofgeismar said:


> That's wrong.
> Russians and Iranians are Easterlings/Rhun.
> Best fighting force of Mordor!
> Even when the Gondorians say lay your weapons down because they won the battle of Pelenor Field, they fought and died for Sauron, instead of running like the different Orcs (Turks) who have a hate-relationship with their master.
> Mordor and Isengard Uruk-Hais are improved Orcs (Turks), like the Janissaries.


well by description they look more chinese or perhaps Mongolian and they are supported to be east of Mordor 


> As of the Third Age, Easterlings were a people diverse in height and skin tone. Their skin was either sallow (a pale yellow) or olive, their eyes were dark (dark brown and black), and their straight hair was black. One unique variant appeared at the Siege of Gondor, described as broad, short, bearded, and wielding axes.

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## Sayfullah

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497351717171699712

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## The Eagle

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497332326518382595



White House wants 6.4b$ (for itself) due to Ukrainian crises.

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## PakAlp

Can they actually do this? Kick Russia out of UN? At the moment China abstained but they will back Russia when needed.









Effort under way to challenge Russia’s right to seat on UN security council


In wake of Ukraine invasion, diplomats consider if Russia can be removed as one of five permanent security council members




www.theguardian.com













Ukraine invasion: should Russia lose its seat on the UN Security Council?


The question centres on whether Russia legally inherited the permanent seat formerly occupied by the Soviet Union.




www.google.com









__





Redirect Notice






www.google.com













US Congress wants to kick out Russia from UN Security Council


A resolution calling to kick Russia off UN Security Council for its invasion of Ukraine -- which has virtually no chance of being enforced -- is circulating among US Congress members from both parties




www.google.com


----------



## F-22Raptor

As I've said before, if Russia can't seal off the border with Poland, advanced NATO weapons will continue to flow into Ukraine.

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## Inception-06

dBSPL said:


> Ukraine has some tactical ballistic capabilities, although not very precise. Tochka-U etc... Yesterday they managed to attack the military base in Rostov. Another remarkable news yesterday was the Russian jet arsoned in Russian base... So we can talk some hybrid wars in some extent.
> 
> I don't know if the news about the crash of the plane that these paratroopers were carrying is true, but I can't say it's unlikely. If Russia lost 100 paratrooper commandos, it could become a major source of stress for the domestic public.



What air assets Ukraine have ? Which the Russians can’t manage ? Really interesting this air warfare — (Bye the way- for my guest readers- I am not on any side in this war- I demand peace )

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## RescueRanger

Jf-17 block 3 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497350956748468227


So far multiple accounts have mentioned the II-76 and the Helicopter this downing of the Su- is new and a little bit suspicious, someone is embellishing. Either way, looks like the Ukrainians are putting up a fight, but the end game is drawing near based on what reports on twitter are saying regarding shelling being heard on the outskirts of Kyiv.

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## Sayfullah

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497352179006558215

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## RescueRanger

Inception-06 said:


> What air assets Ukraine have ? Which the Russians can’t manage ? Really interesting this air warfare — (Bye the way- for my guest readers- I am not on any side in this war- I demand peace )


Their tactical air wing was taken out, they are relying on SAMS mainly.

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## merzifonlu

This war is so unnecessary, sad and puts everyone in trouble. It is purely the work of Putin paranoia, Anglo-Saxon incitement and Zelensky folly. If the global economic situation had not been so bad, the response to Russia would have been more and more harsh. So sad.

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## Wergeland

gambit said:


> Neither do we from the other hemisphere. I was stationed at RAF Upper Heyford for three yrs when I was on the F-111. I would not trade a single second of that time in the UK and on CONEUR. Beautiful land and beautiful peoples can be found everywhere in the world, so enjoy them wherever you can find them. And as a hetero male, I definitely enjoyed the beautiful women.
> 
> 
> Back in 1994, Ukraine gave up 1700 nuclear warheads back to Russia based on a *NON-LEGAL* document that Russia will not attack. That is 1700 permanent security assurances that became permanently gone. You think Russia care about 'space'?
> 
> I do not know you personally, so I say this kindly: That comment is spinelessness.
> 
> 
> The problem with peaceful coexistence is finding shared ideologies. What does Russia share with you?



I couldnt care less what someone calls me on a anonymous forum. Adjectives normally come into motion where good enough arguments are lacking. For all i know you could be a dement old guy like Biden.

I have been in the Norgwegian Army myself. Not anything to brag about. Force is for me always the final option, after all other options has been tried first.

Lets just say Cuba wasnt given the freedom to choose to have Soviet missiles in their soil. That for a good reason too. Why Americans cannot allow Russia the same courtesy is for me a mystery.

We stand strong with NATO. Norway do no wish to be a Russian ally, but we dont want to antagonize Russia unessesarily either.

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## Sayfullah

RescueRanger said:


> So far multiple accounts have mentioned the II-76 and the Helicopter this downing of the Su- is new and a little bit suspicious, someone is embellishing. Either way, looks like the Ukrainians are putting up a fight, but the end game is drawing near based on what reports on twitter are saying regarding shelling being heard on the outskirts of Kyiv.


I’m surprised Ukrainian air defence and Air Force have survived this far. 
I don’t think Russians will be able to capture kyiv completely soon without levelling half the city. It’s just too hard to capture such a big city which is full of defenders and just today 20k rifles were given to people in the city.

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## RescueRanger

Jf-17 block 3 said:


> I’m surprised Ukrainian air defence and Air Force have survived this far.
> I don’t think Russians will be able to capture kyiv completely soon without levelling half the city. It’s just too hard to capture such a big city which is full of defenders and just today 20k rifles were given to people in the city.


If push comes to shove, the Russians will just rely on their Thermobaric Artillery. That is when things will get really messy!

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## Abid123

Jf-17 block 3 said:


> I’m surprised Ukrainian air defence and Air Force have survived this far.
> I don’t think Russians will be able to capture kyiv completely soon without levelling half the city. It’s just too hard to capture such a big city which is full of defenders and just today 20k rifles were given to people in the city.


Russia is not like the US. They ACTUALLY care about the civilians on the ground.

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## Khanate

Jf-17 block 3 said:


> What’s the point of this money now? In the 8 years after Crimea was occupied, they didn’t bother upgrading Ukrainian air five or air defences. No patriot’s, no thaad’s, no f-16’s, n f-15’s. They sent javelin’s and stinger’s basically for nothing. Americans used Ukraine as their sacrificial goat.




Both Javelin and NLAW are in Russian hands.


----------



## F-22Raptor

You remember the Battle of Fallujah? That was a city of 275K. 

Kiev is a city of 3M. A lot of Russians are going to die.

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## Awan68

Great Janjua said:


> Did i hit your Kremlin nerves there buddy. Ruskies getting a mauling is no good enough reason for you to lift their balls am afraid. I would have heartily criticised Ukraine if they had been the aggressors unlike you





Great Janjua said:


> Did i hit your Kremlin nerves there buddy. Ruskies getting a mauling is no good enough reason for you to lift their balls am afraid. I would have heartily criticised Ukraine if they had been the aggressors unlike you i don't lift the ding dongs. The rest of your prattle is just blabber.


An expected response from an IQ of a 2 yr old. The only thing i am loyal to is Pakistan and as Pakistan is clearly posturing to be pro Russia in this conflict hence i will be pro Russia too, if Pakistan had postured against Russia then it would be vice versa, unlike a pathetic western bootlicking veener like u who would set aside his own countries interests to become a merasi for the gooras, the same goras who slapped NBP with a 55 million usd fine to try and punish Pakistan for supporting Russia, dont qoute me again u imbecile, it sickens me to even engage slaves like u.

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## Inception-06

F-22Raptor said:


> You remember the Battle of Fallujah? That was a city of 275K.
> 
> Kiev is a city of 3M. A lot of Russians are going to die.



Sorry just for the sake of credibility- have you served in Fallujah ?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497352686580158464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497354775582683140

USAF veteran

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## RescueRanger

F-22Raptor said:


> You remember the Battle of Fallujah? That was a city of 275K.
> 
> Kiev is a city of 3M. A lot of Russians are going to die.


*Yes we remember it well, and we remember how white prosperous was used indiscriminately by US forces against men women and children. *

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## Foinikas

gambit said:


> As you wish...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> The Russian information service published the photo. Mutual political messages continue. The only difference is that while westerners prefer to talk about economic sanctions, Russia persistently threatens Europe with a nuclear apocalypse. A wise guy said. Anything that can happen, will...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


I read it. It sure changes things,but all these years later,the geopolitical balance and situations have changed. When Ukraine's pro-Russian government is toppled and replaced with a pro-Western government that wants to join NATO or the EU and a big part of the Ukrainian population is against that...things change.

Russia and Ukraine go back a long way.

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## dBSPL

16 F35s landed in Poland. It is re-arangment about NATO Forward Patrol probably.

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## F-22Raptor

Inception-06 said:


> Sorry just for the sake of credibility- have you served served in Fallujah ?




No, but Fallujah was notorious for being a meat grinder

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## Awan68

F-22Raptor said:


> You remember the Battle of Fallujah? That was a city of 275K.
> 
> Kiev is a city of 3M. A lot of Russians are going to die.


There is a huge difference between Ukrainians and Iraqis.

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## Sayfullah

Abid123 said:


> Russia is not like the US. They ACTUALLY care about the civilians on the ground.


Russians so far seem to care about their image like US does. They aren’t doing the type of destruction they did in Syria yet in Ukraine. But of course this could all change very quickly if they continue to face heavy resistance. My guess is they won’t do Syria or Chechnya type destruction to kyiv because I think Russia wants a pro Russia Ukrainian government with pro Russian Ukrainian population and doing Grozny type destruction to kyiv will hurt Russian over all goal. 


Khanate said:


> Both Javelin and NLAW are in Russian hands.
> 
> 
> View attachment 818688


Americans used Ukraine as their sacrificial goat.

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## F-22Raptor

dBSPL said:


> 16 F35s landed in Poland. It is re-arangment about NATO Forward Patrol probably.




Pretty sure F-35s have tracked ballistic missile launches at 800-900 miles distance.

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## Inception-06

F-22Raptor said:


> No, but Fallujah was notorious for being a meat grinder


I know Falluja very well, Studied the street battles a lot, the Iraqis had a amazing fantasy for urban warfare.


----------



## Sayfullah

F-22Raptor said:


> You remember the Battle of Fallujah? That was a city of 275K.
> 
> Kiev is a city of 3M. A lot of Russians are going to die.


Fallujah the people were determined to fight and weren’t scared of death. It depends how willing the residents of kyiv are to fight. If they are determined to defend kyiv they can make battle of fallujah look like a joke. But Russian would turn kyiv into Grozny 2.0 then.


----------



## thetutle

Meengla said:


> No my friend. Even the United States, with twice (and a growing) population than Russia and being a Super Power doesn't see to territorial expansions. Russia, under the USSR and maybe under the Imperial Czar empire, had their day in the sun. At best Russia can remain a sovereign, prosperous and powerful state in the land to the west of the Urals.



Well, if you take a map of Russia, from say year 2000 and a map of Russia now, you will see that it has grown larger at the expense of its neighbours.

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## RescueRanger

*USAF Global Hawk UAV can be seen here in the skies above the Black Sea. *

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## Sayfullah

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497353790831280130

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## Arbiter

Turingsage said:


> Certain bits of information are important to remember.
> 
> Ukraine population VOTED by 70% in multi party elections that brought Volodymyr Zelenskyy to power.
> 
> 7 out of ten people in Russia are against this invasion.
> 
> 9 out of 10 people in Russia are against support for the breakaway Donetsk and Luhansk regions
> 
> The Elite capture of Russia by the extremely rich Oligarch's bears no resemblance to the Soviet Union and is not underpinned by any ideology except that of personal aggrandizement and the absolute love of power.
> 
> By the way Volodymyr Zelenskyy whom Putin calls a Nazi is a Jewish comedian elected to get rid if corruption and a responsive government.


Source? Or did you pull this info out of your ***?


----------



## Inception-06

RescueRanger said:


> *USAF Global Hawk UAV can be seen here in the skies above the Black Sea. *
> View attachment 818695



I saw a picture where more then 30 NATO ASSETS are in air while obeserving the war Theater.


----------



## gambit

Wergeland said:


> I couldnt care less what someone calls me on a anonymous forum. Adjectives normally come into motion where good enough arguments are lacking. *For all i know you could be a dement old guy like Biden.*


Except based on my participation so far, everyone can tell I am coherent in written speech.



Wergeland said:


> I have been in the Norgwegian Army myself. Not anything to brag about. Force is for me always the final option, after all other options has been tried first.


As long as you sacrificed a portion of your productive young yrs in uniform, respect for that sacrifice is universal and transcends borders among those who served. But for those who actually served, we know the final result of force: death. As such, it is usually people like us who want force to be the last resort.



Wergeland said:


> Lets just say Cuba wasnt given the freedom to choose to have Soviet missiles in their soil. That for a good reason too. Why Americans cannot allow Russia the same courtesy is for me a mystery.


Again, I refer you back to the 1994 Budapest Agreement where the US, the UK, and Russia persuaded Ukraine to give up 1700 nuclear warheads, and Ukraine agreed. Is that not enough 'courtesy'?

The NATO membership argument is not valid. Even if the 1994 Budapest Agreement is not legally binding, at least at the philosophical level, Ukraine as an independent state have the right to any alliances. In that agreement is:

*...to respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.*​​That respect is unconditional and must be unconditional. During the Cold War yrs, Soviet satellite states had conditional respect. Anything they want to do must have Kremlin approval or even directed. But after the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine became fully independent so that respect must be unconditional. If I am an independent and sovereign citizen, as long as I do not break any law or even mores, I am allowed to do anything and go anywhere within the confines of that law and/or moral principle. All Ukraine did was reserved the right to petition, and all NATO did was reserved the right to accept. It does not matter if that potentiality is overt or covert. That it was overt is also a courtesy to Russia.

This war between Russia and Ukraine is not about NATO but about Putin wanting Ukraine to return to Russia.

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## RescueRanger

Inception-06 said:


> I saw a picture where more then 30 NATO ASSETS are in air while obeserving the war Theater.



Yes you should have seen it yesterday morning, it was very busy.

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## casual

Jf-17 block 3 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497351717171699712


Ya... And the ANA gov in Afghanistan was saying they were winning against the Taliban while getting mauled. Not going to believe this until I see the wrecks.


----------



## khansaheeb

Englishman said:


> China abstaining
> 
> Wonder if HMS Queen Elizabeth had anything to do with it?


Doubt it , it's too big to fit through the Bosporus sea.









'They'll kill us all': Ukrainian children talk to CNN as Russian forces get closer to their town | CNN


CNN's Nick Paton Walsh reports on the intense fighting between Ukrainian and Russian forces for control of a key bridge on the outskirts of Kherson, Ukraine, and how it's affecting the people who live there.




www.cnn.com


----------



## Dariush the Great

F-22Raptor said:


> You remember the Battle of Fallujah? That was a city of 275K.
> 
> Kiev is a city of 3M. A lot of Russians are going to die.


Last part is unnecessary anger from your side. 
Russia can then say they will Grozny the f out of Kiev. Then what you going to say?


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497361141294518278

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## Dariush the Great

Jf-17 block 3 said:


> I’m surprised Ukrainian air defence and Air Force have survived this far.
> I don’t think Russians will be able to capture kyiv completely soon without levelling half the city. It’s just too hard to capture such a big city which is full of defenders and just today 20k rifles were given to people in the city.


I do not want to be rude to you, but i am speaking generally. It is amazing how uneducated and unaware people really are. It seems majority of people commenting on this conflict have no idea that Russia is just using 20-30% of its firepower.

I mean, there are people on twitter believing statements by ukro lgbt trolls about shooting down 30-50 Russian planes a day. How realistic is that?

Russia is surrounding Kiev on the 2-3th day. They are politically maneuvering at this point, nothing else.

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## RescueRanger

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497361141294518278


The website is back and running now.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497346043482034180


----------



## HttpError

Stop this war, my portfolio is already -50%

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## QWECXZ

doorstar said:


> if you have a friend in mods, ask him to lookup @Battlion25 IP and see if it matches with this @Man of steel23 (or that there titanium guy might have now turned into this man of amreeki ishteel)


I don't, unfortunately. The friendliest moderator I know that I consider a friend is @waz. 
Hopefully he would check his IP and see if they're the same people.

I have nothing against @Battlion25 or @Man of steel23 either. I just don't happen to understand their viewpoints because they seem too far from the real world.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497343528258650113
India's official position on this issue as stated in UNSC


----------



## RescueRanger

HttpError said:


> Stop this war, my portfolio is already -50%


Very poor taste, hundreds of people are believed to be dead on both sides and you are only concerned about your portfolio? 120,000 people (men, women and children) are now refugees... *Please engage your brain and read the room. *

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## Wood

HttpError said:


> Stop this war, my portfolio is already -50%


Buy more!


----------



## khansaheeb

Dariush the Great said:


> I do not want to be rude to you, but i am speaking generally. It is amazing how uneducated and unaware people really are. It seems majority of people commenting on this conflict have no idea that Russia is just using 20-30% of its firepower.
> 
> I mean, there are people on twitter believing statements by ukro lgbt trolls about shooting down 30-50 Russian planes a day. How realistic is that?
> 
> Russia is surrounding Kiev on the 2-3th day. They are politically maneuvering at this point, nothing else.


Russian surface to air missiles are knocking Ukrainian panes out of the sky:-









Video shows explosion after fighter jet shot down, official says - CNN Video


A Ukrainian Sukhoi Su-27 fighter jet was shot down over Kyiv early Friday, Ukrainian Deputy Interior Minister Evgeny Yenin tells CNN's Matthew Chance.




www.cnn.com

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## Wergeland

gambit said:


> Again, I refer you back to the 1994 Budapest Agreement where the US, the UK, and Russia persuaded Ukraine to give up 1700 nuclear warheads, and Ukraine agreed. Is that not enough 'courtesy'?



It was the only right desicion. If not there would be numbers of ex-soviet nations who were sudenly having independent nuclear weapons in their hands. Which for the existing nuclear powers and rest of the world, would be a very uncomfortable situation.

My POV is clear. With Belarus and Ukraine as buffer states. Russia would feel less existential angst. But i also understand you POV, as you could say whats the guarantee that Russia would stay happy with that. What would stop Russia from attacking Baltic nations or Poland.
The answer is we really dont know.

IMO Russia probably never will regain its former glory, like it had during the Romanov days or First decade after end of WW2. Its civilization cycle has peaked a long time ago. That is why i dont fear it becoming a Soviet Union 2.0.


----------



## HttpError

RescueRanger said:


> Very poor taste, hundreds of people are believed to be dead on both sides and you are only concerned about your portfolio? 120,000 people (men, women and children) are now refugees... *Please engage your brain and read the room. *


Well, my thoughts and prayers are with them but what can I do? Shall I call Tsar Putin and tell him to back off from his crazy expansions? or Shall I call Biden and tell him to act like an adult? I can only do what is in my hand (to increase my Portfolio) 


Wood said:


> Buy more!


Ameen to buying the dips. That is why holding Cash for dips like this is so important.

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## dBSPL

42 countries voted in favor of the suspension of Russia's membership of the Council of Europe.

-Russia and Armenia voted against.

-Turkey abstained.

-Azerbaijan did not participate in the voting.

Positions take shape.

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## QWECXZ

Wood said:


> Buy more!


Not now! It depends on the market, but as far as cryptocurrencies are concerned, correction will happen soon. Although cryptocurrencies are still oversold in my opinion. Buy the rumor, sell the news.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Khanate said:


> President Zelenskyy reminds of Ashraf Ghani.
> 
> Ghani knew of the withdrawal but failed to prepare a strategy to defend the homeland.
> 
> President Zelenskyy was so caught up in the information war and economy that Russians are sitting 25KM away from Kyiv.



After the Americans cut a deal with the IEA (aka Afghan Taliban) without the input and any deference to the Afghan government, President Ghani perhaps made the decision to hand over the country to the Afghan resistance. One thing is clear: He didn't like the disrespect.

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## retaxis

Inception-06 said:


> Sorry just for the sake of credibility- have you served in Fallujah ?


He is long term veteran of his mums basement.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497267651470454784


----------



## Windjammer



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## RescueRanger

retaxis said:


> He is long term veteran of his mums basement.


Three tours of COD. Here is his interview:

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497349899918184448

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## QWECXZ

Compare this to how American assholes treated Iraqis and suddenly you'll realize how much Western media demonize the Russians while the Western soldiers and politicians are by far the biggest assholes and hypocrites on the planet.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497298301665828876

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497346293101907975

Senator Rubio referring to Javelins?


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497362263027630083

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## dBSPL

Russian Air Force Antonov An-26 light transport aircraft. (Body number Blue 19, serial number RF-36074)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497198932434292738

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## Bengal71

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 818555



Maybe but it's good to see the Taliban are behaving like a normal government of a country.

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## Han Patriot

F-22Raptor said:


> No, but Fallujah was notorious for being a meat grinder


You served from a couch in your mums basement right? While drinking koolaid.

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## merzifonlu

Wergeland said:


> With Belarus and Ukraine as buffer states.


Belarus is not buffer state currently. Belarus is Russia now. Russia wants same for Ukraine. Because the Russians in eastern Ukraine also want this, Russia thinks that all of Ukraine thinks so. Russia also thinks that the current Ukrainian administration came to power solely on the basis of conspiracy and lacks popular support. But this is a dangerous illusion.

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## Daniel808

RescueRanger said:


> These four photos appear to show Ukrainian volunteers being equipped and trained to fight Russian forces.
> 
> View attachment 818626
> View attachment 818627



Vodka + untrained civilians + free weapons. What a combination for disaster.


Stupid ukraines



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497337536477286405

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497351710435688450

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## RescueRanger

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497349899918184448


And still people are oblivious about the rampant fascist ideology in Ukraine.

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## thetutle

Wergeland said:


> If Russia couldnt occupy Finland and Sweden during the heydays of Russian Empire and Soviet Union, it has no chance today.
> 
> I believe Finland wont join NATO, neither will Sweden. They will remain neutral. Russia has no plans for invasion either. It just dont want the to become NATO members.



Finland was occupied by Russia and was indeed a part of Russia.


----------



## Daniel808

Beware of cheap Ukraine propaganda.

Many of video that ukraine side ‘Captured Russian soldiers’ turns out to be staged


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497329771541372928

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## MK882

Jf-17 block 3 said:


> Russians so far seem to care about their image like US does. They aren’t doing the type of destruction they did in Syria yet in Ukraine. But of course this could all change very quickly if they continue to face heavy resistance. My guess is they won’t do Syria or Chechnya type destruction to kyiv because I think Russia wants a pro Russia Ukrainian government with pro Russian Ukrainian population and doing Grozny type destruction to kyiv will hurt Russian over all goal.
> 
> Americans used Ukraine as their sacrificial goat.


I wholeheartedly agree with you. Russia is just becoming the new world's U.S., along with China. A global power that serves the needs of the (including the third world) world, is peaceful, doesn't care for proxy wars is only a far away illusion. America was using Ukraine as a lab cool, we understand that, you didn't need to invade the entire country though. Ukraine is just the newer Syria.


----------



## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497361060248104970

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497320202953973762

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497320147442454531

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497335607709863937

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497318380994367492


----------



## Oublious

Windjammer said:


> View attachment 818696
> View attachment 818697
> View attachment 818698
> View attachment 818699
> View attachment 818700
> View attachment 818701




bs

The same parts is used by Russian fighters to.


----------



## MK882

Awan68 said:


> There is a huge difference between Ukrainians and Iraqis.


Obviously.


Daniel808 said:


> Beware of cheap Ukraine propaganda.
> 
> Many of video that ukraine side ‘Captured Russian soldiers’ turns out to be staged
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497329771541372928


That's sad. Being defeated and on the losing side doesn't mean you stage video sets.


thetutle said:


> Finland was occupied by Russia and was indeed a part of Russia.


True, but 1939 isn't 2022. There is like a 0.1% chance that Russia will ever even take into thought a invasion of Finland, at least not in the near future or under the current circumstances and economic pressure.


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497365914257223680

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## RescueRanger

QWECXZ said:


> Compare this to how American assholes treated Iraqis and suddenly you'll realize how much Western media demonize the Russians while the Western soldiers and politicians are by far the biggest assholes and hypocrites on the planet.


I must admit I couldn’t stand that charade at the UNSC today. What a bunch of sanctimonious skinflints, trying to take the moral high ground after the last 21 years.

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## MK882

Daniel808 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497361060248104970
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497320202953973762
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497320147442454531
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497335607709863937
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497318380994367492


Your Leng Feng signature quote is very disturbing.


----------



## Stealth

I was thinking, what united nations or US even DO in this situation?! lol like all they do is have meetings and condemn shit, like that’s it lol they're a bunch of cartoons esp US, UK and France who only have guts to attack small and poor countries...

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## RescueRanger

Daniel808 said:


> Beware of cheap Ukraine propaganda.
> 
> Many of video that ukraine side ‘Captured Russian soldiers’ turns out to be staged
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497329771541372928


I’m 100 certain that their advisors are ex ANA resistance commandos. 😂

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## Beast

The SC said:


> One man against many women..


Yet not a single woman can beat this man....


----------



## Beast

Stealth said:


> I was thinking, what united nations or US even DO in this situation?! lol like all they do is have meetings and condemn shit, like that’s it lol they're a bunch of cartoons esp US, UK and France who only have guts to attack small and poor countries...


We know these 20 years ago..


----------



## RescueRanger

Stealth said:


> I was thinking, what united nations or US even DO in this situation?! lol like all they do is have meetings and condemn shit, like that’s it lol they're a bunch of cartoons esp US, UK and France who only have guts to attack small and poor countries...


Here is your answer brother:

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## reflecthofgeismar

QWECXZ said:


> Compare this to how American assholes treated Iraqis and suddenly you'll realize how much Western media demonize the Russians while the Western soldiers and politicians are by far the biggest assholes and hypocrites on the planet.



Not good to compare.
Very similar culture, people, religion.
It's like Germans would take Austria ... 
Americans and Iraqis = different worlds.





Here Brits (which are similar in that regard) with GREAT restraint.
Can be lucky that it weren't Saddam, Gaddafi or Assad AFV, the crowd would have been shredded.

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## Daniel808

RescueRanger said:


> I’m 100 certain that their advisors are ex ANA resistance commandos. 😂



For sure 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497339007423942657

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497312703341338629

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## Stealth

RescueRanger said:


> I’m 100 certain that their advisors are ex ANA resistance commandos. 😂



What I said before... Ukraine reaction is pretty much same as Indian 27 Feb and onwards  "Phattt thay gaye hey par chasss bari aye hey"


Check Twitter LOL Americans and Canadians literally bashing Indians after UN voting ... one of the tweets by an American influencer.... India is a nation headed by a terror nazi regime oppressing minorities and killing Muslims. India has zero guts to condemn Russia

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## Saddam Hussein

QWECXZ said:


> Compare this to how American assholes treated Iraqis and suddenly you'll realize how much Western media demonize the Russians while the Western soldiers and politicians are by far the biggest assholes and hypocrites on the planet.



Someone take this man off the internet till he gains a brain

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## dBSPL

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497365914257223680


I appreciate the effort of this twitter account. He deserves his money.

It's a good idea to mix it with anti-Israel sauce. Let's see when the transfer of radical Islamic religious terrorists to Ukraine will be announced.

Reactions: Angry Angry:
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## Daniel808

Free Javelin and NLAW for Donetsk Armed Forces (DPR) 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497303099635032069

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497300062128463885

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497297536255729664

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## RescueRanger

Stealth said:


> What I said before... Ukraine reaction is pretty much same as Indian 27 Feb and onwards  "Phattt thay gaye hey par chasss bari aye hey"
> 
> 
> Check Twitter LOL Americans and Canadians literally bashing Indians after UN voting ... one of the tweet by an American influencer.... Indian a nation headed by a terror nazi regime suppressing minorities and killing Muslims. India has zero guts to condemn Russia


😂 what an own goal.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## QWECXZ

reflecthofgeismar said:


> Not good to compare.
> Very similar culture, people, religion.
> It's like Germans would take Austria ...
> Americans and Iraqis = different worlds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here Brits (which are similar in that regard) with GREAT restraint.
> Can be lucky that it weren't Saddam, Gaddafi or Assad AFV, the crowd would have been shredded.


Yes, you are right. But many wars have happened between countries with similar culture, people and religion and they showed nothing but hatred for each other.

But I think it's cultural too. The American soldiers believe that they should act tough because they're armed. It's just their mentality, shown every day by the US police treating ordinary Americans with an absolutely disgusting attitude. They think that if you hold the gun, you have absolute power and you can dominate. There's no doubt that the kind of police brutality that is common in the US is quite rare in other countries. I suppose this culture applies to other armed forces of the US as well.

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## reflecthofgeismar

QWECXZ said:


> Yes, you are right. But many wars have happened between countries with similar culture, people and religion and they showed nothing but hatred for each other.
> 
> But I think it's cultural too. The American soldiers believe that they should act tough because they're armed. It's just their mentality, shown every day by the US police treating ordinary Americans. They think that if you hold the gun, you have absolute power and you can dominate. There's no doubt that the kind of police brutality that is common in the US is quite rare in other countries. I suppose this culture applies to other armed forces of the US as well.



Yes indeed.
Americans have often a cowboy-mentality.
Even against their own (no matter the race).

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497372148721086466


----------



## Daniel808

Paper tiger


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497314752082870272


----------



## Tamerlane

Wergeland said:


> IMO Russia probably never will regain its former glory, like it had during the Romanov days or First decade after end of WW2. Its civilization cycle has peaked a long time ago. That is why i dont fear it becoming a Soviet Union 2.0.



I'll tell you a secret. As you say, the glory days for Russia are over. In other words, Russia is a people without an ideology. I say, Islam is an ideology without a people.

If Russia adopts Islam it will rule the world for the next 1,000 years. It will be the new Russian Empire.

For the first few hundred years of Islam, Muslims were led by Arabs. The Mongol invasions finished them off. Then for the next few centuries Muslims were led by Turks, until they were destroyed by the West. Now there is no one. The existing Muslims are, unfortunately, not capable of creating a great civilization like in the past. They are little more than a flock of squabbling chickens.

However, if a new leadership arises of brave, capable and dedicated people, like Russia (or someone else), then Islamic civilization will arise again.

Not that I think it will happen any time soon, but it's a thought for future reference.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Sayfullah

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497373443754397698


----------



## Stealth

Enjoy .... few samples... 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497365685785313280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497365890140102661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497372807528779777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497372437075628033

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497372273191313411

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497372166660268032
https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1497346776373903362

https://twitter.com/Rasco213/status/1497364619584675842

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## NotSure

Daniel808 said:


> Vodka + untrained civilians + free weapons. What a combination for disaster.
> 
> 
> Stupid ukraines
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497337536477286405
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497351710435688450


Sounds far more plausible than the story about 2-3 russian "saboteurs" going alone to a suicide mission. Kiev is shitting propaganda bs out every few minutes. Who is kievs comical Ali?

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## Wergeland

Tamerlane said:


> I'll tell you a secret. As you say, the glory days for Russia are over. In other words, Russia is a people without an ideology. I say, Islam is an ideology without a people.
> 
> If Russia adopts Islam it will rule the world for the next 1,000 years. It will be the new Russian Empire.
> 
> For the first few hundred years of Islam, Muslims were led by Arabs. The Mongol invasions finished them off. Then for the next few centuries Muslims were led by Turks, until they were destroyed by the West. Now there is no one. The existing Muslims are, unfortunately, not capable of creating a great civilization like in the past. They are little more than a flock of squabbling chickens.
> 
> However, if a new leadership arises of brave, capable and dedicated people, like Russia (or someone else), then Islamic civilization will arise again.
> 
> Not that I think it will happen any time soon, but it's a thought for future reference.



Absolutely
Islam honours those who accept it and are worthy of it. As such, metaphysically speaking, Islam tests the worthyness of peoples and nations.

Oswald Spengler, the famous German philosopher, also admired Russia. He believed Russia had a young soul and was the best candidate to replace Western Civilization as the predominant one on the western Hemisphere. I dont know if he knew about the impact of Communism on Russian society and what was to come out of it.

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## Oublious

Daniel808 said:


> Free Javelin and NLAW for Donetsk Armed Forces (DPR)
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497303099635032069
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497300062128463885
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497297536255729664




You don't need a airbase to operate TB2, i don't now why you fanboys are still thinking that every airbase that is been attacked means not TB2 destroyed  . TB2 can operate from a highway, it doesn't need a runaway like a fighter...


----------



## RescueRanger

lol, disinformation campaign is in full swing. 

This photo of an apparent Ukrainian solider capturing an AS Val from the body of a dead Russian Special forces soldier has been proven to be an air-soft gun due to the design of the magazine.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Daniel808

Ukrianes blowing up bridges connecting Odessa with Mykolaiv.

Preparing to general retreat to Odessa and abandon Mykolaiv?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497352411224096772


----------



## The SC

The Russian Defense Ministry announced that it had succeeded in completely extinguishing the Ukrainian air defenses.

The Russian Defense Ministry said it "targeted military infrastructure, air defense systems, military airports and the Ukrainian air force."

Russia said on Thursday that it had used "high-precision weapons" to extinguish Ukraine's air defense systems.

"The military infrastructure, air defense systems, military airfields and air forces of Ukraine have been suppressed with high-precision weapons," the Russian Defense Ministry said in a written statement.

It also added that "the special military operation in Donbass, eastern Ukraine, did not pose a threat to civilians in the country."

Russia has launched a military operation in Ukraine and is targeting key areas of cities with weapons and missiles, according to reports.

Early today, Thursday, February 24, 2022, explosions were reported in several Ukrainian provinces, including the capital, Kiev, after Russian President Vladimir Putin announced what he called a "special military operation" in the Donbas region controlled by separatist forces. pro-Russian.

With few good air defense options, Ukraine's best strategy is likely to be to abandon the challenge of Russian freedom of movement in the air over the front lines, and instead try to inflict steady losses on any deep penetration or air attack sorties through defense in depth.

As Russian forces continue to build up around Ukraine's borders with both Russia and Belarus, the disparity of forces on the ground, at sea, and in the air. This significantly limits the options available to Kiev in the event of a Russian invasion, but this does not mean that Russian aircraft will have complete freedom to operate in Ukrainian airspace.

The Ukrainian Air Force (UkrAF) can use approximately 50 Mikoyan-Gurevich Mig-29s and just over 30 Sukhoi Su-27 fighters, along with about 12 Su-24 bombers and a similar number of ground attack aircraft. Su-25 upgraded. These aircraft were manufactured during the Soviet era, and although they have received various Ukrainian domestic avionics upgrades over the past decade, they are still largely based on old Soviet-era air-to-air and air-to-ground weapon systems.

By contrast, Ukrainian military intelligence has estimated that the Russian Air Force (VKS) can count on 313 fixed-wing combat aircraft within an easy range of the border at present. 110 fixed-wing combat aircraft of the 6th Air Force and Army Air Defense (6 A VVS PVO) stationed in the Western Military District and more than 200 in the 4th Air Force and Army of Air Defense (4 A VVS PVO) and the 43rd Marine Independent Assault Aviation Regiment (43 OMShAP) Stationed in the Southern Military District. This permanent force has been reinforced by the temporary relocation of several regiments from other military districts to areas bordering Ukraine in recent months.

One example is the 12 Su-25SM ground attack aircraft that flew from the Eastern Military District to Belarus in early February. With the exception of some of the older Su-27s in the 4A VVS PVO, most of the fixed-wing combat aircraft that the VKS could rely on in any operation against Ukraine have either been manufactured recently or have undergone extensive upgrade programs and are in their midst. In a direct clash with the UkrAF, VKS fighters can also rely on the most modern and longer range R-77-1 active radar-guided missiles for long-range engagements and the R-73M heat-seeking missiles at close range. For attack operations, the VKS uses a wide range of radar-guided stand-off missiles, GLONASS/GPS, and TV-guided bombs.

Ukraine has a very limited number of Soviet-era surface-to-air SAM systems, including the long-range S-300PS/PT (SA-10), 2K12 'Kub' (SA-6) and 9K37M 'Buk M-1' systems ( SA-11) medium-range mobile and short-range mobile 9K330 'Tor' systems. All of these systems have been locally updated to improve their performance and make them less vulnerable to Russian countermeasures. However, it still relies on well-known missiles and radars that are routinely rehearsed by Russian pilots. The Ukrainian SA-10's long-range locations are largely static due to a chronic shortage of key Russian-made spare parts, leaving them vulnerable to rapid destruction from long-range Russian strikes at the start of any engagement.

*Why didn't the United States and its allies provide Ukraine with advanced air defense systems?*

The confluence of fears of provoking Russia, fears of technology falling into Russia's hands, and doubts about Ukraine's ability to operate the systems — prevented the United States and its allies from approving Ukrainian requests for advanced surface-to-air missiles in the years following Russia's seizure of Crimea in 2014,” current and former US defense officials and experts told NBC News.

Those calculations seemed plausible at the time, but they helped keep Ukraine largely defenseless against what experts say would be a crushing display of air power if Russia launched a large-scale invasion. US officials are scrambling to find ways to help Ukrainian forces sustain themselves, but there are few good options.

“We all definitely missed an opportunity,” said Philip Breedlove, a retired four-star Air Force general who was the supreme commander of NATO forces during the 2014 Russian invasion of Crimea, and was involved in the ensuing controversy over how much aid should be given to Ukraine.

He added: “The West, NATO and all countries have missed an opportunity. I think we're looking at it retroactively now and thinking that maybe we should have made a different decision."

Retired Admiral James Stavridis, who preceded Breedlove as NATO Supreme Commander and is now a national security contributor to NBC News, agreed with this view.

"I think air defense would have been a very smart move," he said. If we put more in there sooner, we wouldn't be where we are now."

Decisions by US presidents of both parties set the stage. President Barack Obama refused to provide any lethal assistance after the fall of Crimea in 2014, rejecting the recommendations of top national security officials. President Donald Trump only signed off on the Javelin anti-tank missile after a delay in the aid package led to accusations of misconduct. Nor did it provide air defense to Ukraine.

The Biden administration has been accused of being slow to act, too. By the time US intelligence agencies concluded six months ago that Russia was planning a possible invasion, Stavridis said, there was not enough time to train Ukrainians to operate advanced air defenses such as Patriots.

Defense officials said a US military team visited Ukraine in December to assess its air defenses, but concluded there was not much new equipment that could be of use.

No one has proposed weapons systems that could enable Ukraine to repel a large-scale attack by one of the world's most powerful military forces. Advanced air defenses would probably provide a level of deterrence now absent. Analysts say the prospect of shooting down the bombers in flight may force Russian President Vladimir Putin to reassess his strategy.

Ukraine has some ability to resist an air attack. Ukraine acquired a small number of last-minute surface-to-air missiles only this month from European partners. Lithuania and Latvia provided some of the shoulder-fired Stinger missiles, which the Afghan mujahideen used to drive out the Russians in the 1980s after receiving them from the CIA.

This capability has bolstered Ukraine's current air defenses, which previously consisted of largely outdated Russian-made systems highly vulnerable to electronic jamming, experts say.

“It is also true that Russia lacks experience in flying through contested airspace,” said Dara Masikot, a senior policy researcher at RAND Corp.

She said: “If they carry out tactical flights inside Ukrainian airspace to carry out a major operation, it is possible that there will be losses of some Russian aircraft. Ultimately, however,
the sheer amount of combat air power that Russia can bring, particularly with its long-range precision strikes, is likely to overwhelm Ukraine's air defenses."

Once Russia has air superiority, it will be free to destroy the Ukrainian army from great distances, without endangering ground forces.

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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497376140922654722

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497376884228771842

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497237584107425800

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
2 | Sad Sad:
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## Saddam Hussein

Can't we keep it to news instead of all the shit I'm reading here

Reactions: Like Like:
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## lastofthepatriots

https://imgur.com/a/ZQypr0L

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## Goenitz

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497268693432078338


just saying . don't rely on italy for battle and logistics... Ask Hitler and Rommel @Foinikas

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## QWECXZ

Saddam Hussein said:


> Can't we keep it to news instead of all the shit I'm reading here


Dear dead tin-pot dictator, 

It's a forum, i.e. a place where people exchange opinions and discuss things. If you want to read only news, you can check newspapers.

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## khansaheeb

Wergeland said:


> Absolutely
> Islam honours those who accept it and are worthy of it. As such, metaphysically speaking, Islam tests the worthyness of peoples and nations.
> 
> Oswald Spengler, the famous German philosopher, also admired Russia. He believed Russia had a young sould and was the best candidate to replace Wedtern Civilization as the predominant one on the western Hemisphere. I dont know if he know the imapact of Communism on Russian society and what was to come out of it.


Seems like you have been drinking Vodka too, your spelling is all over the place.


----------



## RescueRanger

RPG 22’s being handed out to volunteers this morning. They have Bulgarian Ordinance Factory Markings:

I’ve included a sample with Bulgarian Markings below for comparison:

Reactions: Like Like:
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## K_Bin_W

aziqbal is missing, anyone has seen him?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Beast

Putin speech for Ukraine military

Ukraine proven neo nazi








K_Bin_W said:


> aziqbal is missing, anyone has seen him?


He purposely got himself ban and avoid humiliations of his mighty UK.

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## QWECXZ

Beast said:


> Putin speech for Ukraine military
> 
> 
> He purposely got himself ban and avoid humiliations of his mighty UK.


Where is that Dutch clown who wrote a letter to Putin on the behalf of Russians? 🤣
@PeaceGen

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## RescueRanger

This photo being shared on Ukrainian social media channels shows 3 NLAW’s for the defence of Kiev, the camelback rucksack and IFAK pouch both have US flags on them:

Reactions: Like Like:
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## khansaheeb

Ukraine's Turkish-made drones face off against advanced Russian military - Breaking Defense


A drone used in combat against adversaries with weak air defense systems now faces a far more capable military.




breakingdefense.com




Ukraine’s Turkish-made drones face off against advanced Russian military​A drone used in combat against adversaries with weak air defense systems now faces a far more capable military.​By ANDREW EVERSDENon February 25, 2022 at 11:41 AM




A TB2 Bayraktar takes flight. (Bayraktar)
WASHINGTON: As the unprovoked Russian invasion of Ukraine continues to unfold, the Ukrainian military has flown a Turkish-made drone that has garnered attention in recent years for its tank-killing capabilities.
The Ukrainian Armed Forces Facebook page announced that its troops launched Turkish-made TB2 Bayraktars, a medium-sized tactical unmanned aerial vehicle that can carry anti-tank missiles, as the Russian military invaded in the early hours Thursday morning.
According to the Baykar website, the TB2 UAV can fly up to 138 miles per hour and can carry four smart munitions, or up to 330 pounds. It can also carry an ISR payload. The drone is about 39 feet long with a wingspan of 21 feet with an operational altitude is 18,000 feet. It has also notably seen real-world action, providing a sense of what its capabilities and drawbacks are on the battlefield.
_*For all of Breaking Defense’s coverage of the Ukraine situation, click here.*_
The TB2 Bayraktar has been deployed in several conflicts in recent years. The Turkish government has used the system against both Syrian and Kurdish forces in the Middle East. It was also employed by the Azerbaijani military against Armenian forces in the Nagorno-Karabakh War in 2020, where the UAV was known for its success targeting Armenian air defense systems and tanks, largely older Russian-made equipment. But the outcome may be different against a more modern military.
“We learned from Nagorno-Karabakh that when countries have the capacity to operate armed drones on the battlefield, and air defenses are less of a concern, that drones can play an important role in anti-armor warfare,” said Michael Horowitz, a professor at University of Pennsylvania.
But while the drone proved itself useful in the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict in 2020 and in Syria, it now faces a much more capable adversary.

NETWORKS / CYBER, SPONSORED
A new era of satellite communications is upon us​Learn about the new ideas and activities that are going on now to upgrade and pay for the next generation of SATCOM.
From BREAKING DEFENSE
Mark Cancian, a senior adviser at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, recently wrote in an op-ed for Breaking Defense that a conflict between Russia and Ukraine would provide insight into the usefulness of the modern tank on the battlefield, an aspect of land warfare that has been questioned by some experts in the aftermath of the Nagorno-Karabakh War. Reuters, citing research from London-based think tank International Institute for Strategic Studies, reported that Russia is estimated to have 2,840 main battle tanks.
_*RELATED: Russia vs Ukraine could provide invaluable lessons on what truly works in modern warfare*_
“It’s different because you have two opponents who have more sophisticated militaries than what you had in Nagorno-Karabakh,” Cancian said in an interview. “The Russians, of course, have a pretty much top notch military.”
Sam Bendett, a Russian military expert who works as an adviser to the CNA think tank, said that “The Russian military has claimed that Bayraktars will not necessarily be a big threat to a force like Russia, because of Russia’s advanced early warning radars, advanced electronic warfare capabilities, and its layered air defense.”
Russian momentum in Ukraine slowed, but conflict still in early days: Pentagon​Russia is meeting more resistance from Ukrainian forces than it had anticipated, but Russian President Vladimir Putin still has untapped combat power at his disposal.
By VALERIE INSINNA
He noted that the TB2 drones’ successes in Syria and Nagorno-Karabakh came against older Soviet-made air defense systems because its low-flying and not built for speed, which makes it more vulnerable to advanced air defense systems. The United States and its allies have also provided Ukrainian forces with Javelin’s to defend against Russian tanks.
“So they could see Bayraktars from afar, they could identify it faster, and they could launch several types of countermeasures against it,” Bendett said.
Russian state media said Thursday that its military had shot down four TB2s, although claims of success in Ukraine from both sides of the conflict are hard to prove at this point.
Ukraine bought six TB2 UAVs from Turkish drone-maker Baykar for $69 million in 2019, according to Defense News, with the first drone delivered to the Ukrainian Navy in July last year. In October, the UAV was used against a Russian-backed separatists in Ukraine’s eastern Donbass region, the first time it was used by the Ukrainian military in combat. The Ukrainian government signaled it was wants to buy 24 more TB2 drones, and since agreed with Turkey to co-produce the drone at a facility in Ukraine, Defense News reported.
For the last several years, according to a 2021 report on the Russian military from CNA, Moscow has studied the conflicts in Syria and the Nagorno-Karabakh and learned the challenges that drones could provide on the battlefield. Since then, Bendett said, the electronic warfare and counter-UAS training are nearly “synonymous.” According to a report from the Washington Post, the Russia’s Defense Ministry has posted photos of counter-TB2 training.
“They [the Russian military] are aware that Bayraktar is the most advanced tactical UAV in the employ of the Ukrainian military, and they’ve also been learning and practicing how to deal with that threat,” Bendett said.

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## Genghis khan1




----------



## Bengal71

Arsalan890 said:


> Hello. we allowed them to bomb us. they didn't start bombing without permission. Our foreign policy is a joke. United states not an enemy.



United States not an enemy of Pakistan? You must be high on some strong drug mate. You sure you are Pakistani?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## NotSure

Spot the difference:

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Xone

Russian military entering the capital Kyiv. the latest situation on the ground.











Russia’s war in Ukraine: complete guide in maps, video and pictures


Where is fighting happening and how did we get here?




www.theguardian.com


----------



## tower9

K_Bin_W said:


> aziqbal is missing, anyone has seen him?


He’s busy in Kyiv fighting for the Queen

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Daniel808

Honestly can't tell if Russian troops are advancing or it's recipients of today's free AKs murdering each other


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497390726136664068

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497384358352769030

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Brainsucker

RescueRanger said:


> This photo being shared on Ukrainian social media channels shows 3 NLAW’s for the defence of Kiev, the camelback rucksack and IFAK pouch both have US flags on them:
> View attachment 818712


They help Ukraine with manpad, Cool. When they can actually give Ukrainian F-16 and M1, if they want. I think China is more reliable than US. At least they gave Pakistani 50 JF-17, not manpad when Pakistan had trouble with NATO some years ago.

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## Beast

khansaheeb said:


> Ukraine's Turkish-made drones face off against advanced Russian military - Breaking Defense
> 
> 
> A drone used in combat against adversaries with weak air defense systems now faces a far more capable military.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> breakingdefense.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine’s Turkish-made drones face off against advanced Russian military​A drone used in combat against adversaries with weak air defense systems now faces a far more capable military.​By ANDREW EVERSDENon February 25, 2022 at 11:41 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A TB2 Bayraktar takes flight. (Bayraktar)
> WASHINGTON: As the unprovoked Russian invasion of Ukraine continues to unfold, the Ukrainian military has flown a Turkish-made drone that has garnered attention in recent years for its tank-killing capabilities.
> The Ukrainian Armed Forces Facebook page announced that its troops launched Turkish-made TB2 Bayraktars, a medium-sized tactical unmanned aerial vehicle that can carry anti-tank missiles, as the Russian military invaded in the early hours Thursday morning.
> According to the Baykar website, the TB2 UAV can fly up to 138 miles per hour and can carry four smart munitions, or up to 330 pounds. It can also carry an ISR payload. The drone is about 39 feet long with a wingspan of 21 feet with an operational altitude is 18,000 feet. It has also notably seen real-world action, providing a sense of what its capabilities and drawbacks are on the battlefield.
> _*For all of Breaking Defense’s coverage of the Ukraine situation, click here.*_
> The TB2 Bayraktar has been deployed in several conflicts in recent years. The Turkish government has used the system against both Syrian and Kurdish forces in the Middle East. It was also employed by the Azerbaijani military against Armenian forces in the Nagorno-Karabakh War in 2020, where the UAV was known for its success targeting Armenian air defense systems and tanks, largely older Russian-made equipment. But the outcome may be different against a more modern military.
> “We learned from Nagorno-Karabakh that when countries have the capacity to operate armed drones on the battlefield, and air defenses are less of a concern, that drones can play an important role in anti-armor warfare,” said Michael Horowitz, a professor at University of Pennsylvania.
> But while the drone proved itself useful in the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict in 2020 and in Syria, it now faces a much more capable adversary.
> 
> NETWORKS / CYBER, SPONSORED
> A new era of satellite communications is upon us​Learn about the new ideas and activities that are going on now to upgrade and pay for the next generation of SATCOM.
> From BREAKING DEFENSE
> Mark Cancian, a senior adviser at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, recently wrote in an op-ed for Breaking Defense that a conflict between Russia and Ukraine would provide insight into the usefulness of the modern tank on the battlefield, an aspect of land warfare that has been questioned by some experts in the aftermath of the Nagorno-Karabakh War. Reuters, citing research from London-based think tank International Institute for Strategic Studies, reported that Russia is estimated to have 2,840 main battle tanks.
> _*RELATED: Russia vs Ukraine could provide invaluable lessons on what truly works in modern warfare*_
> “It’s different because you have two opponents who have more sophisticated militaries than what you had in Nagorno-Karabakh,” Cancian said in an interview. “The Russians, of course, have a pretty much top notch military.”
> Sam Bendett, a Russian military expert who works as an adviser to the CNA think tank, said that “The Russian military has claimed that Bayraktars will not necessarily be a big threat to a force like Russia, because of Russia’s advanced early warning radars, advanced electronic warfare capabilities, and its layered air defense.”
> Russian momentum in Ukraine slowed, but conflict still in early days: Pentagon​Russia is meeting more resistance from Ukrainian forces than it had anticipated, but Russian President Vladimir Putin still has untapped combat power at his disposal.
> By VALERIE INSINNA
> He noted that the TB2 drones’ successes in Syria and Nagorno-Karabakh came against older Soviet-made air defense systems because its low-flying and not built for speed, which makes it more vulnerable to advanced air defense systems. The United States and its allies have also provided Ukrainian forces with Javelin’s to defend against Russian tanks.
> “So they could see Bayraktars from afar, they could identify it faster, and they could launch several types of countermeasures against it,” Bendett said.
> Russian state media said Thursday that its military had shot down four TB2s, although claims of success in Ukraine from both sides of the conflict are hard to prove at this point.
> Ukraine bought six TB2 UAVs from Turkish drone-maker Baykar for $69 million in 2019, according to Defense News, with the first drone delivered to the Ukrainian Navy in July last year. In October, the UAV was used against a Russian-backed separatists in Ukraine’s eastern Donbass region, the first time it was used by the Ukrainian military in combat. The Ukrainian government signaled it was wants to buy 24 more TB2 drones, and since agreed with Turkey to co-produce the drone at a facility in Ukraine, Defense News reported.
> For the last several years, according to a 2021 report on the Russian military from CNA, Moscow has studied the conflicts in Syria and the Nagorno-Karabakh and learned the challenges that drones could provide on the battlefield. Since then, Bendett said, the electronic warfare and counter-UAS training are nearly “synonymous.” According to a report from the Washington Post, the Russia’s Defense Ministry has posted photos of counter-TB2 training.
> “They [the Russian military] are aware that Bayraktar is the most advanced tactical UAV in the employ of the Ukrainian military, and they’ve also been learning and practicing how to deal with that threat,” Bendett said.


Those drone are useless against a proper military forces. They are only good against AK-47 armed ISIS fighters or militants who cant fight back against UCAV.

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## Daniel808

lastofthepatriots said:


> https://imgur.com/a/ZQypr0L



According to Western propaganda media & ukraine propagandist.

“The Russians were indiscriminately targeting civilians"

But this tiktok video from the frontline, showing us the opposite

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497393912821915648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497397121594576897


----------



## siegecrossbow

K_Bin_W said:


> aziqbal is missing, anyone has seen him?







__





Ukrainian War Developments


I am baffled by Russia's decision to go balls deep in Ukraine. Is it satisfying to do it? Heck yes. But as @MarKoz81 has noted in his excellent analysis, the best case scenario for Russia is to become a nuclear equipped henchman of the PRC. Is it really worth it for Putin to go all in and...



www.sinodefenceforum.com

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## khansaheeb

Daniel808 said:


> According to Western propaganda media & ukraine propagandist.
> 
> “The Russians were indiscriminately targeting civilians"
> 
> But this tiktok video from the frontline, showing us the opposite


Seems like the Ukrainian forces are getting decimated , where is NATO? This is becoming like destruction of the Armenian armed forces, a very one sided war. Good to see the Russians are avoiding civilian losses as best as they can.

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## siegecrossbow

Stealth said:


> What I said before... Ukraine reaction is pretty much same as Indian 27 Feb and onwards  "Phattt thay gaye hey par chasss bari aye hey"
> 
> 
> Check Twitter *LOL Americans and Canadians literally bashing Indians after UN voting ... one of the tweets by an American influencer.... India is a nation headed by a terror nazi regime oppressing minorities and killing Muslims. India has zero guts to condemn Russia*



The only good thing to come out of this fiasco.

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## Wergeland

Brainsucker said:


> They help Ukraine with manpad, Cool. When they can actually give Ukrainian F-16 and M1, if they want. I think China is more reliable than US. At least they gave Pakistani 50 JF-17, not manpad when Pakistan had trouble with NATO some years ago.



Giving Ukraine high value assets right now would be like TOT for free to Russians. Dammit.

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## Brainsucker

Wergeland said:


> Giving Ukraine high value assets right now would be like TOT for free to Russians. Dammit.



It is late now. They should gave those advanced weapons prior of this conflict, to deter Russian Invasion. Plus, western Ukraine still untouched by Russian. This means, these areas can still become Ukrainian base to establish their command and control in this desperate situation.

Remember what happen in WW2 in China. When Japan attacked Nanjing, Chiang moved his capital from Nanjing to Chengdu. So why won't Ukrainian don't do that? They should establish new capital and military command in western Ukrainian. With that, Kiev will lose it's relevant in this invasion. And they can establish contact with their NATO allies to get more help in term of weaponry.

With the president stay in Kiev and Kiev is under attack right now, Russia will gain a lot of prestige when Kiev is captured. At maybe the war will over with Russian victory. As Ukraine lost their government foothold.

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## Khanate

Azov neo-Nazi pretending to be Russian soldier: 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497329771541372928

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## Daniel808

khansaheeb said:


> Seems like the Ukrainian forces are getting decimated , where is NATO? This is becoming like destruction of the Armenian armed forces, a very one sided war. Good to see the Russians are avoiding civilian losses as best as they can.



After Kiev Liberated by Russians and Half of their Army pushed back or trapped near Donbass Pocket.
You will see the Moral of Ukrainian forces getting low down & desertions will be much more common.


What Ukraine needs are hundreds of Long Range SAM, MBT, IFV. Fighters, Heavily Armed Drones, and Ballistic Missiles.
Instead NATO only give them Online support and cheap manpads & ATGM  Germany itself only send non-lethal supply, like Helmet. WTF !

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## Basel

NA71 said:


> the sinister game is to get closer and closer to Russian Territory by luring Ukrainian leadership with a carrot of NATO Support ....
> 
> Will USA allow Russia to deploy military resources close to its borders ?



US reacted very agresively in 60s during Cuba missile Crisis.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497397284241383430


----------



## Basel

Daniel808 said:


> After Kiev Liberated by Russians and Half of their Army pushed back or trapped near Donbass Pocket.
> You will see the Moral of Ukrainian forces getting low down & desertions will be much more common.
> 
> 
> What Ukraine needs are hundreds of Long Range SAM, MBT, IFV. Fighters, Heavily Armed Drones, and Ballistic Missiles.
> Instead NATO only give them Online support and cheap manpads & ATGM  Germany itself only send non-lethal supply, like Helmet. WTF !



If NATO was serious about security of Ukraine then they had plenty of time since 2014 to prepare Ukrainian military to be able to defend their country, no proper training and equipment was provided, no aircrafts for air force were provided, US could have easily provided 100 used F-16 block-40/50 with AIM-120 C-5 & AIM-9x but they never did that which means they just used Ukraine.


----------



## dBSPL

Southern Front





Northern Front:

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## thetutle

mike2000 is back said:


> starting WWII officially since Britain and France had to declare war on him as they had no more choice after trying to appease Hitler for years by making concessions)


Why didnt UK declare war on Russia when they invaded Poland at the same time as Germany? yeah, so they did have a choice and they chose to attack Germany for no good reason.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497402346774712321

UK MOD reports Ukraine still maintains control of major cities

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## Daniel808

Basel said:


> If NATO was serious about security of Ukraine then they had plenty of time since 2014 to prepare Ukrainian military to be able to defend their country, no proper training and equipment was provided, no aircrafts for air force were provided, US could have easily provided 100 used F-16 block-40/50 with AIM-120 C-5 & AIM-9x but they never did that which means they just used Ukraine.



They can send 100-200 used F-16, even I doubt it would deter Russian.
But who pays? Ukraine didn't have the money to buy or maintain that huge fleet. US would not pay. They are not China with Big pocket ready to dump.

That's why their purpose

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497250533484023813

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## Genghis khan1




----------



## dBSPL

Situation 6-7 hours ago:
With the morning light, we get the balance sheet for tonight.


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## Daniel808

dBSPL said:


> Southern Front
> View attachment 818727
> 
> Northern Front:
> View attachment 818728



It's from Yesterday.
In southern front, Ivanivka and Ahaimany already liberated by Russians. And linking their troops in Kherson to Melitopol.



This is the most updated one, from couple hours ago

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497399893136228357


----------



## khansaheeb

Basel said:


> US reacted very agresively in 60s during Cuba missile Crisis.


NATO acted like a pussy cat confronted by a Pit Bull in 2022. I guess after the Afghanistan humiliation they have lost their will to fight.

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## Khanate

Daniel808 said:


> What Ukraine needs are hundreds of Long Range SAM, MBT, IFV. Fighters, Heavily Armed Drones, and Ballistic Missiles.
> Instead NATO only give them Online support and cheap manpads & ATGM  Germany itself only send non-lethal supply, like Helmet. WTF !




Ukraine is losing assets it can't replace easily.

More needs to be done but with less.

This is not a winning strategy.

Zelenskyy has mismanaged this conflict badly.

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## Mandalorian_CA

Khanate said:


> Ukraine is losing assets it can't replace easily.
> 
> More needs to be done but with less.
> 
> This is not a winning strategy.
> 
> Zelenskyy has mismanaged this conflict badly.



afcourse he is a comedian

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## Genghis khan1



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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496915708063539200

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## Daniel808

Brainsucker said:


> It is late now. They should gave those advanced weapons prior of this conflict, to deter Russian Invasion. Plus, western Ukraine still untouched by Russian. This means, these areas can still become Ukrainian base to establish their command and control in this desperate situation.
> 
> Remember what happen in WW2 in China. When Japan attacked Nanjing, Chiang moved his capital from Nanjing to Chengdu. So why won't Ukrainian don't do that? They should establish new capital and military command in western Ukrainian. With that, Kiev will lose it's relevant in this invasion. And they can establish contact with their NATO allies to get more help in term of weaponry.
> 
> With the president stay in Kiev and Kiev is under attack right now, Russia will gain a lot of prestige when Kiev is captured. At maybe the war will over with Russian victory. As Ukraine lost their government foothold.




They should relocate their defence industry to western side of dniepr river in the very first day.
Instead their abandoning their factories to Russians

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497253527260958724

That's why I said they are so stupid, and this trend would degrade them from a Capable Functioning Armed Forces to a bunch of Guerilla fighters in matter of week only.
Instead playing a long game with Russians

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## dBSPL

Genghis khan1 said:


> View attachment 818731


Let the Taliban become permanent members of UNSC. At least the meetings can be more fun.

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## khansaheeb

Genghis khan1 said:


> View attachment 818731


The only people both NATO and Russia will pay heed to in the world.

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## CrazyZ

Daniel808 said:


> They should relocate their defence industry to western side of dniepr river in the very first day.
> Instead their abandoning their factories to Russians
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497253527260958724
> 
> That's why I said they are so stupid, and this trend would degrade them from a Capable Functioning Armed Forces to a bunch of Guerilla fighters in matter of week only.
> Instead playing a long game with Russians


Al-Khalid tank will need new engine supplier......we will have to use chinese engines from VT-4

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## Brainsucker

Daniel808 said:


> They should relocate their defence industry to western side of dniepr river in the very first day.
> Instead their abandoning their factories to Russians
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497253527260958724
> 
> That's why I said they are so stupid, and this trend would degrade them from a Capable Functioning Armed Forces to a bunch of Guerilla fighters in matter of week only.
> Instead playing a long game with Russians



So the Ukrainian tank industry is in Kharkov. Hmm..., Maybe the reason of Russian invasion today is to destroy Ukrainian military tech industries, too.

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## Basel

Daniel808 said:


> They can send 100-200 used F-16, even I doubt it would deter Russian.
> But who pays? Ukraine didn't have the money to buy or maintain that huge fleet. US would not pay. They are not China with Big pocket ready to dump.
> 
> That's why their purpose
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497250533484023813



US since long have provided military aid to countries and they could have done that with Ukraine too, US and even UK had EDAs which could have been transferred to Ukraine.


----------



## dBSPL

CrazyZ said:


> Al-Khalid tank will need new engine supplier......we will have to use chinese engines from VT-4


An ordinary Indian's point of view

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497388821662822400


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497407753677123588

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497408469523181569

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497409748777508865


----------



## Khanate

Daniel808 said:


> They should relocate their defence industry to western side of dniepr river in the very first day.
> Instead their abandoning their factories to Russians
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497253527260958724
> 
> That's why I said they are so stupid, and this trend would degrade them from a Capable Functioning Armed Forces to a bunch of Guerilla fighters in matter of week only.
> Instead playing a long game with Russians




Correction: The Kharkov Tractor Plant is on fire, not the tank factory


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497253784904519691

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Statement from the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan. 👇









The most reasonable statement issued by any sane party in this conflict.

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## Daniel808

Brainsucker said:


> So the Ukrainian tank industry is in Kharkov. Hmm..., Maybe the reason of Russian invasion today is to destroy Ukrainian military tech industries, too.



Yes, their Defence Industry mostly in the Eastern & Southern side of the country.

If they smart, they would relocate all of them to western side of Dniepr river. And pull back Half of their Armed Forces from around Donbass to defend western dniepr, instead digging in Donetsk outskirts like today.
Those bunch of troops with all their heavy equipment around donbass soon would getting encircle by Russian and Donetsk People Army (DPR). A huge blunder

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## khansaheeb

dBSPL said:


> Let the Taliban become permanent members of UNSC. At least the meetings can be more fun.


Everyone will have to be mindful of their behinds.

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## CrazyZ

dBSPL said:


> An ordinary Indian's point of view
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497388821662822400


Historically so did the USA and France. India should ditch them too by the same logic

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## thetutle

dBSPL said:


> If Russia lost 100 paratrooper commandos, it could become a major source of stress for the domestic public.



Noone in russia wil nokt about this. Russians have mobile crematoriums that vaporise bodies, and no body bags ever return to Russia. The soldiers are just listed as missing or on assignment and never heard from again. then when the war is over the families are told, sorry, her not coming back. we lost the body.

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## Daniel808

Khanate said:


> Correction: The Kharkov Tractor Plant is on fire, not the tank factory
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497253784904519691



Yes, That Tractor Plant that burned is right beside the Tank Factory. In the same industrial area.
If that tractor plant is burned by Russian, you would realize that Tank Plant must be under Russian control too right now.

Tractor Plant is categorized as Heavy Industry. And in many contigency plan, they should getting relocated to safer area along with defence industry and machinery industry

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## thetutle

MK882 said:


> True, but 1939 isn't 2022. There is like a 0.1% chance that Russia will ever even take into thought a invasion of Finland, at least not in the near future or under the current circumstances and economic pressure.



Let the finish people decide that. If they think they are safe, they should not join nato. If they need protection, go ahead. But dont come crying if they make a mistake because they are alone if they miscalculate.


----------



## Daniel808

Finally, URA !!!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497407898250473480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497412222993133568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497406339395436544


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Ukraine is a country of 44.13 million people. They gave up their nukes. They have the industrial base to develop good weapons. Yet this country elected this dumb kid who provoked his giant neighbor and who couldn't remain neutral in the West vs Russia conflict. He let himself and his country be *cannon fodder *for the West's obsession with destabilizing Russia. Now, the proof of his *ineptness* can be observed in his army that is not even putting up a viable resistance to an invading army when they have jungles, mountains, rivers, and valleys. 

Perhaps being a puppet for foreign powers who wouldn't come to his aid explains this Zelensky guy's ineptness and stupidity.

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## Daniel808

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Ukraine is a country of 44.13 million people. They gave up their nukes. They have the industrial base to develop good weapons. Yet this country elected this dumb kid who provoked his giant neighbor and who couldn't remain neutral in the West vs Russia conflict. He let himself and his country be *cannon fodder *for the West's obsession with destabilizing Russia. Now, the proof of his *ineptness* can be observed in his army that is not even putting up a viable resistance to an invading army when they have jungles, mountains, rivers, and valleys.
> 
> Perhaps being a puppet for foreign powers who wouldn't come to his aid explains this Zelensky guy's ineptness and stupidity.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497377224814522373

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## khansaheeb

Khanate said:


> Ukraine is losing assets it can't replace easily.
> 
> More needs to be done but with less.
> 
> This is not a winning strategy.
> 
> Zelenskyy has mismanaged this conflict badly.


Sorry but NATO and Pakistan can't do anything to help our friends in Ukraine.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Kashmiri Rebel said:


> This must be a joke..



It is widely reported in social media. It seems legit.


----------



## khansaheeb

thetutle said:


> Let the finish people decide that. If they think they are safe, they should not join nato. If they need protection, go ahead. But dont come crying if they make a mistake because they are alone if they miscalculate.


Yes, we might see a repeat of Ukraine with Finland and Norway.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Daniel808 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497377224814522373



There is a takeaway from this conflict: To any poorly-armed country, don't seek a conflict that you aren't ready for; don't be cannon fodder for foreign powers who wouldn't come to your rescue the moment you're in the heat and taking blows; and make sure you put the well-being of your country and people before anyone else.

I don't understand why there isn't a coup d'etat against this stupid Zelensky guy. Madness.

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## Faqirze

Beast said:


> Ukraine proven neo nazi


Your in for a real surprise, guess who funds the Azov Battalion









Rights groups demand Israel stop arming neo-Nazis in Ukraine


***




www.haaretz.com












Israel is arming neo-Nazis in Ukraine


Nazi group Azov is now a unit of the Ukrainian armed forces.




electronicintifada.net








__





Israel Is Arming Ukraine’s Blatantly Neo-Nazi Militia, the Azov Battalion – – IMEMC News






imemc.org

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## Aesterix

Meanwhile CIA busy taking down Russian websites. 

Posing as Anonymous the hacker.

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## Daniel808

So Russians already liberated Mikolayev and Now on Odessa?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497420735060475908

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497420004332953604

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497423380466876421
Another night of fighting and Kiev still stands


----------



## Daniel808

STUPID !!

Soon those untrained civilians with AK, will happy trigger to their own Armed Forces. If they suspect they are Russian under disguise


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497422657020567552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497421972992454657

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497424690389864452


----------



## Faqirze

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497423380466876421
> Another night of fighting and Kiev still stands


Better thank daddy America and NATO for those sanctions! Kiev would have fallen by now if it wasn't for those sanctions hitting hard

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## Riz

Kashmiri Rebel said:


> This must be a joke..


Why ? The statement of IEA and Statement of USA have same meaning for the Russians , both are bullshit for them


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497352399123587073


----------



## Daniel808

Go get ‘em boys

Kiev this morning

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497424908716019714

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## Faqirze

Daniel808 said:


> STUPID !!
> 
> Soon those untrained civilians with AK, will happy trigger to their own Armed Forces. If they suspect they are Russian under disguise
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497422657020567552
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497421972992454657


When they started mobilizing civilians as a last stand against the Russians, some Ukrainians started fighting each other with their AKs. Its like handing a bunch of Monkeys guns.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497422294485921795


----------



## Riz

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497424690389864452


US and NATO killed Millions of innocent in the past few decades, Thank you for your kind attention about the civilians casualties dude



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497422294485921795


Nothing going to work, World want to see US bombardment over Moscow dude

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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497408494995218432


Faqirze said:


> When they started mobilizing civilians as a last stand against the Russians, some Ukrainians started fighting each other with their AKs. Its like handing a bunch of Monkeys guns.



Now they give reason for those untrained with AK to panic and shooting at their own Armed Forces 👍 Good job

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## Chak Bamu

Beast said:


> Russian military need to arrest zelenskyy and execute him. Drag his body on the street of Kiev. Neo Nazi and traitor will have no good ending.


Dude, how is this your war and why are you being so shockingly bloodthirsty? He is a comedian & like Afghan president he would be a meaningless voice in a few days. Why create a martyr for no reason?

Calm down & worry about fascists closer to home in your own neighborhood.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497370602075734021

Elon Musk trolling Rogozin(head of Roscosmos)


----------



## White privilege

If Europe intends to _blockade _Russia then there is only one solution, reach the Atlantic coast,like the Soviets once wanted to reach Indian ocean.


----------



## CrazyZ

Daniel808 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497408494995218432
> 
> 
> Now they give reason for those untrained with AK to panic and shooting at their own Armed Forces 👍 Good job


I agree its way to early to say the Russians have bogged down. From what I recall it took the British Army months to secure Basra in GulfWar 2.....and Iraq was far weaker and unsupported compared to Ukraine today

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497376894844649475
The US could completely block Russia to the ISS, remove Russian modules, and replace them with SpaceX Dragons


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497428829903757319

The US has now confirmed that two Russian Il-76 was shot down by Ukraine. 

That’s a lot of Russian paratroopers



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497428829903757319
> 
> The US has now confirmed that two Russian Il-76 was shot down by Ukraine.
> 
> That’s a lot of Russian paratroopers




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497430729843740672


----------



## gambit

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Ukraine is a country of 44.13 million people. They gave up their nukes.


Ukraine gave up the nukes because Russia made a *WRITTEN* promise not to attack in the future. You did not know that?


----------



## F-22Raptor

gambit said:


> Ukraine gave up the nukes because Russia made a *WRITTEN* promise not to attack in the future. You did not know that?





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497430637166407686
Thoughts Gambit?


----------



## Han Patriot

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497352399123587073


So happy huh instigating two countries to. Fight each other..... One day we will see right wing America gunning down the North. Trust me



gambit said:


> Ukraine gave up the nukes because Russia made a *WRITTEN* promise not to attack in the future. You did not know that?


NATO also promised not to expand east, as per common law, it is legally binding albeit written on a minute.

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## Vapnope

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497434361922146304


----------



## Han Patriot

Chak Bamu said:


> Dude, how is this your war and why are you being so shockingly bloodthirsty? He is a comedian & like Afghan president he would be a meaningless voice in a few days. Why create a martyr for no reason?
> 
> Calm down & worry about fascists closer to home in your own neighborhood.


Because Ukraine used to be an ally until being screwed by the USA.


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## dBSPL

Kiev tonight:


Russia made the most serious attempt ever to invade Kiev
Russian attacks; concentrated on the line of Vasilkiv Air Base in the south of Kiev and Peremohy Street in the center of Kiev
Especially the attack on the Vasilkiv line was huge.
Russians attacked Kiev's power stations
The attack by the Russian army on a Ukrainian military base in Kiev was repelled
More than 60 Russian saboteurs caught
Two vehicles and a tank were destroyed in the area of the Beresteyskaya metro station
A huge fire broke out in the zoo area
In the Teremkovskaya area, a person has been spotted doing ground target markings for Russian artillery or warplanes
Clashes continue in different parts of the city

07:00 local time

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497435732751056897


----------



## Vapnope

Damien Symon (@detresfa_) Tweeted:
Tracking the second day of fighting in #Ukraine as a battle is underway for control of #Kyiv, with #Russia trying to encircle the city, a joint mapping effort with @COUPSURE & @SimTack also covers other fronts evolving around the #RussiaUkraineWar https://t.co/xwR5N0H0K2

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497208350727192583


----------



## BRAVO_

seems like ukranian are trying to hold their ground around capital but how long is another question???


----------



## Han Patriot

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497423380466876421
> Another night of fighting and Kiev still stands


Are you stupid or something, within 24 hrs, Russia reached Kiev. That's very fast by American standards

Reactions: Like Like:
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## LimaCharlie

İs this real? 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496947089498066944


----------



## Dexon

Russia has $ 570 million foreign currency deposits in US and British banks, 80 percent of which were blocked in the first two days and now stand at 20 percent.
This war did not seem so bad for Britain and US . they will steal all that money...

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## jamahir

Beast said:


> Russian military need to arrest zelenskyy and execute him. Drag his body on the street of Kiev. Neo Nazi and traitor will have no good ending.



Like @Chak Bamu said, no need to be this brutal, like how Taliban did to Najibullah. Zelenskyy can be put on trial, his NATO association, Nazi legitimization and war against the Russian-speakers recounted and he be jailed. All this put on YouTube.



FuturePAF said:


> Those in the know are watching Venezuela (and Cuba and Nicaragua) for Russian troop deployments and deployment of “strategic” systems. A new Cuban missile crisis might be brewing and we even have an Irishman in the White House. Deja Vu ‘eh



Hmm, the interviewee speaks from Western government perspective but there is some valid information in it. Also, the interview has been done before the war so I think Russia's involvement in Venezuela, Cuba and Nicaragua especially could be hastened now.



RescueRanger said:


> Resolution against Russia. - China, UAE and India Abstained.





Khanate said:


> UNSC vote
> 
> *Against*: Russia
> 
> *Abstain*: China, India, UAE
> 
> 11 in favour, 1 against and 3 abstain
> 
> Resolution not adopted due to veto by Russia



At last India and China did good voting in the UNSC. Did not do good in context of Libya and Syria.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497376894844649475
> The US could completely block Russia to the ISS, remove Russian modules, and replace them with SpaceX Dragons



@Joe Shearer, I told you a similar thing yesterday with the addition that Russia might also voluntarily withdraw from the ISS. China's space station may be waiting for the Russians who may contribute to enlarging it instead of building their own as was the plan.



gambit said:


> Ukraine gave up the nukes because Russia made a *WRITTEN* promise not to attack in the future. You did not know that?



Tony B'liar convinced Libya to give up its chemical weapons and then NATO attacked Libya. Promise broken, written or otherwise.

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## beijingwalker

Han Patriot said:


> Are you stupid or something, within 24 hrs, Russia reached Kiev. That's very fast by American standards


Not as fast as US fleeing Afghanistan

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## Beast

Chak Bamu said:


> Dude, how is this your war and why are you being so shockingly bloodthirsty? He is a comedian & like Afghan president he would be a meaningless voice in a few days. Why create a martyr for no reason?
> 
> Calm down & worry about fascists closer to home in your own neighborhood.


This clown authorize the nationalize of Moto Sich and swallow Chinese USD 3.1 billion investment on the name of national security. And they even want to avoid any repayment. Then it want to follow US and support recognize genocide of uyghur. He is serving the interest of American and not Ukrainian.

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## F-22Raptor

Han Patriot said:


> Are you stupid or something, within 24 hrs, Russia reached Kiev. That's very fast by American standards




The Russians haven’t taken any major cities, haven’t gained air superiority, just lost 200+ paratroopers in shootdowns, and Ukraine is still maintaining command and control. 

The Russians have proven to be inept in the first 48 hours.


----------



## Beast

Dexon said:


> Russia has $ 570 million foreign currency deposits in US and British banks, 80 percent of which were blocked in the first two days and now stand at 20 percent.
> This war did not seem so bad for Britain and US . they will steal all that money...


Russia will cut off gas of Europe if they dont release the money soon. Gas supply cannot be replace in a single day. I think you shall know that.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497209471109681161
Ukrainian ambush of Russian soldiers in Kiev


----------



## arjunk

Might be some hours old


----------



## 1ndy

LimaCharlie said:


> İs this real?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496947089498066944



no


----------



## Dexon

Beast said:


> Russia will cut off gas of Europe if they dont release the money soon. Gas supply cannot be replace in a single day. I think you shall know that.


they already blocked 80% of it. and i don't think US UK care about what will happen to eu. bTW they who take money and solve their financial problem...

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## Beast

Dexon said:


> they already blocked 80% of it. and i don't think US UK care about what will happen to eu. bTW they who take money and solve their financial problem...


France and Germany will release the money soon.


----------



## Dexon

Beast said:


> France and Germany will release the money soon.


they can't because it deposit in US UK bank.


----------



## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497123719180914690

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## jamahir

dBSPL said:


> A huge fire broke out in the zoo area







F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians haven’t taken any major cities, haven’t gained air superiority, just lost 200+ paratroopers in shootdowns, and Ukraine is still maintaining command and control.
> 
> The Russians have proven to be inept in the first 48 hours.



At least the Russians haven't air-bombed the presidential building unlike NATO aircraft which bombed the Bab al Azizia compound in Tripoli in 2011 and killed family members of Gaddafi including two infants.

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## Han Patriot

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians haven’t taken any major cities, haven’t gained air superiority, just lost 200+ paratroopers in shootdowns, and Ukraine is still maintaining command and control.
> 
> The Russians have proven to be inept in the first 48 hours.


I think you should cehck the latest map, not some Ukrainian feel good news. Analyze after the war is over and don't give me the ghost of Kiev shit which was from a flight simulation game.. Lol

Inept? Look at how long it took US to advance in Iraq, Russia is in Kiev. They are slowing down to reduce civilian damages and deaths, they are doing precision strikes unlike US which basically bombarded everything back to stone age and killed 500k iraqi kids. So wake up and smell the coffee damn cheerleader. Go buy a tighter pink dress and pompoms. Lol

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## Beast

Dexon said:


> they can't because it deposit in US UK bank.


But sure about that but when gas supply starts hurt France and Germany. They will start to do something.


----------



## Han Patriot

beijingwalker said:


> Not as fast as US fleeing Afghanistan


Fckers just abandoned 85bil$ worth of equipment and dare talk so much.

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## gambit

Wergeland said:


> *It was the only right desicion.* If not there would be numbers of ex-soviet nations who were sudenly having independent nuclear weapons in their hands. Which for the existing nuclear powers and rest of the world, would be a very uncomfortable situation.


Only because of time and distance that we can say that the decision was 'right'. But at that moment, am willing to bet it was agonizing for the Ukrainians. They did not left the Soviet Union. The collapse of the Soviet Union effectively abandoned all the satellite states to their own devices. Each economy was broken. All legalities between vassal and master states null and voided. All of them may not have like life under Soviet rule, but the sudden severance of that relationship was not what each expected.

So imagine Ukraine came into ownership of the world's 3rd largest nuclear stockpile. All those yrs they were steward of immense destructive power, then all of a sudden, they were on their own. They can do whatever they want with all those nuclear warheads. They can make a lot of money with them. Or they can wield them on the world's stage for their own benefits. I doubt that Ukraine looked at their situation at the helicopter level like we are today and considered a nuclear armed Ukraine a negative factor regarding nuclear armament or disarmament. One could even excuse Ukraine if they acted selfishly with those nuclear weapons.

But then somehow, Russia convinced Ukraine to give up those nuclear guarantors of independence and security.



Wergeland said:


> My POV is clear. With Belarus and Ukraine as buffer states. Russia would feel less existential angst.


Buffer states walks a thin line between independence and servitude. They know they are always the first to suffer any anxious moment of the more powerful sides that they lives in-between. They very much tacitly serve two masters. Every decision, domestic or foreign, must be assessed to see if the estimated outcome could trigger a response from either master. Everyone know their lands will always be the first battlegrounds.



Wergeland said:


> But i also understand you POV, as you could say whats the guarantee that Russia would stay happy with that. What would stop Russia from attacking Baltic nations or Poland.
> The answer is we really dont know.


It is true that we really do not know. But what we do know is that once a predator had a taste of human flesh, it usually want more. Predatory nation-states are no different. Now we see Russia tasting Ukrainian flesh.

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## Han Patriot

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497209471109681161
> Ukrainian ambush of Russian soldiers in Kiev


Funy how Russia didn't release much picture on how many Ukrainians they killed. I wonder why....



gambit said:


> Only because of time and distance that we can say that the decision was 'right'. But at that moment, am willing to bet it was agonizing for the Ukrainians. They did not left the Soviet Union. The collapse of the Soviet Union effectively abandoned all the satellite states to their own devices. Each economy was broken. All legalities between vassal and master states null and voided. All of them may not have like life under Soviet rule, but the sudden severance of that relationship was not what each expected.
> 
> So imagine Ukraine came into ownership of the world's 3rd largest nuclear stockpile. All those yrs they were steward of immense destructive power, then all of a sudden, they were on their own. They can do whatever they want with all those nuclear warheads. They can make a lot of money with them. Or they can wield them on the world's stage for their own benefits. I doubt that Ukraine looked at their situation at the helicopter level like we are today and considered a nuclear armed Ukraine a negative factor regarding nuclear armament or disarmament. One could even excuse Ukraine if they acted selfishly with those nuclear weapons.
> 
> But then somehow, Russia convinced Ukraine to give up those nuclear guarantors of independence and security.
> 
> 
> Buffer states walks a thin line between independence and servitude. They know they are always the first to suffer any anxious moment of the more powerful sides that they lives in-between. They very much tacitly serve two masters. Every decision, domestic or foreign, must be assessed to see if the estimated outcome could trigger a response from either master. Everyone know their lands will always be the first battlegrounds.
> 
> 
> It is true that we really do not know. But what we do know is that once a predator had a taste of human flesh, it usually want more. Predatory nation-states are no different. Now we see Russia tasting Ukrainian flesh.


US was more concerned than the Russians okay and they paid for it. US was afraid it would be sold to other countries and threaten their dominance

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## Sayfullah

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497430957212717058

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## Daniel808

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497209471109681161
> Ukrainian ambush of Russian soldiers in Kiev



Doubt it.


That’s a fvcking AA gun, what they do alone in the middle of enemy city.

Most probably, it’s other Ukrainian Army unit getting ambushed by their civilians using free AK.



Also, if that’s true Russian. Then what Ukies did was a War Crime. That wounded soldier incapable of fighting. But they shot died instead.

This will force Russian soldier to retaliate what Ukies did

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## jamahir

Han Patriot said:


> Analyze after the war is over and don't give me the ghost of Kiev shit which was from a flight simulation game.. Lol



@lastofthepatriots was so proud of the "Ghost of Kiev", LOL. Alas...


----------



## Daniel808

Jf-17 block 3 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497430957212717058




Looks like Ukraine good at making claim


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497422259585171460

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## Sayfullah

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497445649897472001

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## Han Patriot

jamahir said:


> @lastofthepatriots was so proud of the "Ghost of Kiev", LOL. Alas...


They think it's that easy to defeat modern jets. It's just common sense. Great to see India having strategic independence. Had it not been the border skirmish, India would have been an invaluable ally against US imperialism.

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## Sayfullah

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497443951682502661


----------



## F-22Raptor

Han Patriot said:


> I think you should cehck the latest map, not some Ukrainian feel good news. Analyze after the war is over and don't give me the ghost of Kiev shit which was from a flight simulation game.. Lol
> 
> Inept? Look at how long it took US to advance in Iraq, Russia is in Kiev. They are slowing down to reduce civilian damages and deaths, they are doing precision strikes unlike US which basically bombarded everything back to stone age and killed 500k iraqi kids. So wake up and smell the coffee damn cheerleader. Go buy a tighter pink dress and pompoms. Lol




Yes, inept, and that’s being widely circulated on Twitter. 

Russia is certainly in no shape to challenge the US and NATO.


----------



## Daniel808

Donbass Front going on Offensive


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497440337773703171

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## Sayfullah

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497446490406596608

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Han Patriot

Daniel808 said:


> Looks like Ukraine good at making claim
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497422259585171460


Yah and the American numbnuts are basically having an orgasm over the ghost of kyiv.lol


F-22Raptor said:


> Yes, inept, and that’s being widely circulated on Twitter.
> 
> Russia is certainly in no shape to challenge the US and NATO.


And you think NATO and US is in any shape to challenge China and Russia? That's how the world ends numb nuts.

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## jamahir

Han Patriot said:


> Great to see India having strategic independence. Had it not been the border skirmish, India would have been an invaluable ally against US imperialism.



Nice to see that sentiment from you. I wish all the Eurasian countries, the East Asian countries, the South American countries and the Africans and the West Asians can form a bloc against US imperialism. I say this despite being an anti-war and anti-military person.


----------



## T90TankGuy

Vapnope said:


> @Joe Shearer @T90TankGuy @MilSpec gentlemen, i would like to read your take on this issue. Thanks in advance.


This invasion was a forgone conclusion, it had to happen. The west by putting sanctions on Russia have put it in the same position they had the japs before WW2. 
The west betrayed Ukraine by not holding up to their pledge of protecting them. Russia being what it was was not going to sit quietly. 
I see and axis of Russia and China forming into the next decade to take on the west.

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## Daniel808

Jf-17 block 3 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497446490406596608




If this true, Russian already running for their life back to the border 😂

And Ukraine side would posting hundreds of photos that showing they are victorious

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## RescueRanger

LimaCharlie said:


> İs this real?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496947089498066944


No sorry that’s fake, couple of reasons;


Aircraft is an a10 which is American not russian
Terrain is Middle East
Weapon is a C-RAM which Ukraine don’t possess

But… most importantly, the footage is from the game ARMAII.

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## Han Patriot

Daniel808 said:


> If this true, Russian already running for their life back to the border 😂
> 
> And Ukraine side would posting hundreds of photos that showing they are victorious


The weaker side always need propaganda to boost morale. No other choice.

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## Daniel808

😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497447511572766720

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## Sayfullah

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497447922287403008

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## gambit

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497430637166407686
> Thoughts Gambit?


If true that the Russian army lost that aircraft, it should be a hint that the porcupine policy for Ukraine will work and will be terrible for the Russian army.

The comparison between the guerrilla urban warfare from Afghanistan and Ukraine must stop. For starter, like it or not, the Ukrainians are a more sophisticated people, technologically and else. So if the US had a difficult time in Afghanistan with small arms and IEDs, how much more difficult *WILL* it be for Russian troops if Ukrainians guerrilla fighters are equipped with more complex weapons like the Javelin?

The US does not need to directly fight Russia. Ukraine is willing to bear the human cost and so far, the Baltic states are already suppliers of those more complex weapons. When the Soviets occupied Afghanistan, the US armed the mujahedeens via third parties. We can do the same here for the Ukrainians.


----------



## RescueRanger

Chak Bamu said:


> Dude, how is this your war and why are you being so shockingly bloodthirsty? He is a comedian & like Afghan president he would be a meaningless voice in a few days. Why create a martyr for no reason?
> 
> Calm down & worry about fascists closer to home in your own neighborhood.


^ Post of the day and only two likes. ☹️. Wish I could press the like button on this post 15 more times.

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## Han Patriot

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497402346774712321
> 
> UK MOD reports Ukraine still maintains control of major cities


Numb numb, Russia does not want to capture cities with millions of civilians, its about killing the defenses and other military infrastructure and entering Kiev. KIEV IS THE Aim. Wake up numb numb

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## RescueRanger

A lot of misinformation is coming out of Ukraine. Leonidas has taken the Spartans and will meet the Russians at the hot gates. 🤣

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497446940606447619

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497449422728400901


----------



## Han Patriot

Jf-17 block 3 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497447922287403008


530 apcs is just plain stupid.... At least put a more reasonable number.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## gambit

T90TankGuy said:


> This invasion was a forgone conclusion, it had to happen. The west by putting sanctions on Russia have put it in the same position they had the japs before WW2.
> *The west betrayed Ukraine by not holding up to their pledge of protecting them.* Russia being what it was was not going to sit quietly.
> I see and axis of Russia and China forming into the next decade to take on the west.


What about the pledge from Russia that Russia will not attack Ukraine? You did not know that?


----------



## Sayfullah

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497447621467717641


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497449514763964417

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## 1ndy

Daniel808 said:


> Doubt it.
> 
> 
> That’s a fvcking AA gun, what they do alone in the middle of enemy city.
> 
> Most probably, it’s other Ukrainian Army unit getting ambushed by their civilians using free AK.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, if that’s true Russian. Then what Ukies did was a War Crime. That wounded soldier incapable of fighting. But they shot died instead.
> 
> This will force Russian soldier to retaliate what Ukies did


They are not alone with AD gun... can't see the armored carriers in background?


----------



## Sayfullah

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497446940606447619
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497449422728400901


Disgusting. Their forefathers didn’t fight for this.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497443141942538244

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## Chak Bamu

Beast said:


> This clown authorize the nationalize of Moto Sich and swallow Chinese USD 3.1 billion investment on the name of national security. And they even want to avoid any repayment. Then it want to follow US and support recognize genocide of uyghur. He is serving the interest of American and not Ukrainian.


Point noted. But how is lusting after his blood going to fix any of that?


----------



## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497434281492324353

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497112440081088513

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Sayfullah

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497446940606447619




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497188819854106667

Reactions: Love Love:
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## RescueRanger

Jf-17 block 3 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497446490406596608








Tauba, Tauba. 😂

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## patero

Dexon said:


> Russia has $ 570 million foreign currency deposits in US and British banks, 80 percent of which were blocked in the first two days and now stand at 20 percent.
> This war did not seem so bad for Britain and US . they will steal all that money...


According to the international bank of settlements, international banks have approximately US $121 billion in assets owed to them by Russian based entities, and there is approximately $US 128 billion in loan and deposit funding by Russian entities to foreign banks, so its roughly equal. Not all of that will be subject to US banking sanctions, only US dollar denominated assets or liablities will be frozen. And frozen does not necesarily mean those funds are appropriated by the US government.

Just as an aside, the banking sanctions already announced are probably going to be more damaging than expulsion from SWIFT, as the experience with Iran has demonstrated cross border transactions can still be conducted without SWIFT, its just more costly and complicated.


----------



## gambit

jamahir said:


> Nice to see that sentiment from you. I wish all the Eurasian countries, the East Asian countries, the South American countries and the Africans and the West Asians can form a bloc against US imperialism. I say this despite being an anti-war and anti-military person.


You guys had all these decades to form such a bloc. What happened?

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## Sayfullah

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 818756
> 
> Tauba, Tauba. 😂


Seems like ex ANA got jobs at Ukrainian MOD

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## Chak Bamu

Jf-17 block 3 said:


> Disgusting. Their forefathers didn’t fight for this.


Chechens have aligned themselves with Russia. I suppose that was the sane thing to do. Also, Putin seems to be more receptive to Muslims' concerns as opposed to other Europeans. Chechens did well resisting Russians, but the war became pointless after destruction of Grozny. This may shock us, but Chechens are serving their own interests.



gambit said:


> You guys had all these decades to form such a bloc. What happened?


Nice to see your post. I had not seen you around in what seems like a very long time.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497451483717115906

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Daniel808

Nice catch boys


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497440287936770049





They expect this

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497438431793741827
To fight this

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497435167899922439

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497451822256119808

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## ezerdi2

Russians must ask themselves the question why they can no longer influence even the small border countries , the method of force no longer works, it is soft power and money that matters now , the US does not even need to ask the eastern countries to join NATO, they are the ones who do it of their own free will.
Russia has the potential to become N1 in the economy and have an influence as great as the US, They have insane potential but a Third World mentality. Yet they have brains, good scientists, economists, men of culture, etc., everything needed to develop this vast territory.

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## Tshering22

Stealth said:


> Enjoy .... few samples...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497365685785313280
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497365890140102661
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497372807528779777
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497372437075628033
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497372273191313411
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497372166660268032
> https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1497346776373903362
> 
> https://twitter.com/Rasco213/status/1497364619584675842
> 
> 
> View attachment 818703



I like the way the "liberal" crowd in the West is throwing a hissy fit as if India is their personal property. . It is easy to see why their conservative-supporting citizens hate this crowd. These self-entitled femboy anarchists think that everyone is there to serve them and their interests.

Neutrality inka samajh mein nahi aata. 🤦‍♂️

Please do post these on a separate joke thread; it will be fun to see cringy tweets. 

_______________

That Akshay Kumar meme is going to be a major hit.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497453374857437184


----------



## lastofthepatriots

jamahir said:


> @lastofthepatriots was so proud of the "Ghost of Kiev", LOL. Alas...



Imagine rooting for invaders from half way across the world. You must feel like a big man.

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## TheNoob

lastofthepatriots said:


> Imagine rooting for for invaders from half way across the world. You must feel like a big man.



Unlike the US invasions, this one has a legitimate security and social concern from the "invader"

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## Muhammed45

An other reason USA is a joke. 

Ashraf Ghani and Zelensky learnt it the hard way. 

Not even NATO countries are safe, they need to learn how to respect their neighbor. 


ezerdi2 said:


> Russians must ask themselves the question why they can no longer influence even the small border countries , the method of force no longer works, it is soft power and money that matters now , the US does not even need to ask the eastern countries to join NATO, they are the ones who do it of their own free will.
> Russia has the potential to become N1 in the economy and have an influence as great as the US, They have insane potential but a Third World mentality. Yet they have brains, good scientists, economists, men of culture, etc., everything needed to develop this vast territory.


Taking over Ukraine would make sure that they can easily sell gas to EUrope. Russia will be safe

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Daniel808

Nice prize from Hostomol Airport 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497377109056102403

Another Airport fall to Russian hand

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497384184024911881

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RescueRanger

Internet connective in Kyiv / Kiev has been reportedly disrupted:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497409488403505153


----------



## Sayfullah

Chak Bamu said:


> Chechens have aligned themselves with Russia. I suppose that was the sane thing to do. Also, Putin seems to be more receptive to Muslims' concerns as opposed to other Europeans. Chechens did well resisting Russians, but the war became pointless after destruction of Grozny. This may shock us, but Chechens are serving their own interests.


We can’t say Chechen’s have chosen Russia since Chechen’s can’t express their views openly without Kadyrov’s gangs killing and raping them. 
Chechens and Russians have always been enemies historically and always fought one another historically. 
Idk about Putin but Kadyrov is a brutal dictator and far worse then anyone else. If woman are caught wearing a niqab in Chechnya they are forced to take it off on live tv and shamed. Kadyrov kidnaps and kills his opponents. He even stoops down to such lows to rape his opponents sisters, wives and mothers and send them videos, an incident like that happened very recently. There was 2 years ago a video of a man getting forced by Kadyrov’s men to do nasty sexually harmful stuff to him self and the video is still online somewhere. Majority if not all of anti Kadyrov Chechens were forced to flee Chechnya. Many anti Russian Chechen mujahideen had to flee as well and instead ending up fighting in Syria and Iraq and Ukraine. 
Also Chechens are being treated as cannon fodder by Putin rn. Their sending Chechens because Chechen casualties won’t cause the same up roar in Russia as Russian casualties would. 
Putin isn’t more receptive to Muslims concerns he’s just doing what he thinks would help Russian interests. Putin supporting Assad and bombing any moving thing in Syria shows he doesn’t care about Muslims in fact no one in the world does even many Muslim countries don’t. Where European leaders are openly racist against Muslims, Putin talks sweet but kills more Muslims then majority of Europeans. 
Chechens did well but unfortunately lost and the war was getting too bloody however, at least if Russia wants peace in Chechnya at least allow religious freedom in Chechnya and basic human rights. Russian state only allows “traditional” Islam, whatever that is suppose to mean. Wear a niqab in Russia you’ll be labelled a wahabi and their banned in Russia along with “political” Islam, whatever that is suppose to mean. 
It seems more like Chechens being used as cannon fodder rather then servicing their own interests. A people who number just a few million in a country of around 150 million, are majority of Russian troops overseas in conflict zones. In Syria, majority Chechen’s being used. In Ukraine, Chechens being used as cannon fodder. In other places where Russia is Chechen’s being used. Russia uses Chechen’s in its wars to avoid backlash from the Russian majority public over Putin joining these useless wars. The Russian public, its a open fact, are majority racist to Chechen’s. Putin knows this so he uses them as cannon fodder. 

All I want is my fellow Muslim brothers not to be oppressed, not to be treated as cannon fodder and especially not be cannon fodder for a tyrannical regime which butchered their forefathers and don’t even give them complete religious freedom.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Warking

Tshering22 said:


> I like the way the "liberal" crowd in the West is throwing a hissy fit as if India is their personal property. . It is easy to see why their conservative-supporting citizens hate this crowd. These self-entitled femboy anarchists think that everyone is there to serve them and their interests.
> 
> Neutrality inka samajh mein nahi aata. 🤦‍♂️
> 
> Please do post these on a separate joke thread; it will be fun to see cringy tweets.
> 
> _______________
> 
> That Akshay Kumar meme is going to be a major hit.


This is what the west thinks about us as their personal property and not equal humans.

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## Sayfullah

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497455785185624067


----------



## Khanate

NBC news executive: 










__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497401278762151939

Reactions: Angry Angry:
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## Muhammed45

Jf-17 block 3 said:


> We can’t say Chechen’s have chosen Russia since Chechen’s can’t express their views openly without Kadyrov’s gangs killing and raping them.
> Chechens and Russians have always been enemies historically and always fought one another historically.
> Idk about Putin but Kadyrov is a brutal dictator and far worse then anyone else. If woman are caught wearing a niqab in Chechnya they are forced to take it off on live tv and shamed. Kadyrov kidnaps and kills his opponents. He even stoops down to such lows to rape his opponents sisters, wives and mothers and send them videos, an incident like that happened very recently. There was 2 years ago a video of a man getting forced by Kadyrov’s men to do nasty sexually harmful stuff to him self and the video is still online somewhere. Majority if not all of anti Kadyrov Chechens were forced to flee Chechnya. Many anti Russian Chechen mujahideen had to flee as well and instead ending up fighting in Syria and Iraq and Ukraine.
> Also Chechens are being treated as cannon fodder by Putin rn. Their sending Chechens because Chechen casualties won’t cause the same up roar in Russia as Russian casualties would.
> Putin isn’t more receptive to Muslims concerns he’s just doing what he thinks would help Russian interests. Putin supporting Assad and bombing any moving thing in Syria shows he doesn’t care about Muslims in fact no one in the world does even many Muslim countries don’t. Where European leaders are openly racist against Muslims, Putin talks sweet but kills more Muslims then majority of Europeans.
> Chechens did well but unfortunately lost and the war was getting too bloody however, at least if Russia wants peace in Chechnya at least allow religious freedom in Chechnya and basic human rights. Russian state only allows “traditional” Islam, whatever that is suppose to mean. Wear a niqab in Russia you’ll be labelled a wahabi and their banned in Russia along with “political” Islam, whatever that is suppose to mean.
> It seems more like Chechens being used as cannon fodder rather then servicing their own interests. A people who number just a few million in a country of around 150 million, are majority of Russian troops overseas in conflict zones. In Syria, majority Chechen’s being used. In Ukraine, Chechens being used as cannon fodder. In other places where Russia is Chechen’s being used. Russia uses Chechen’s in its wars to avoid backlash from the Russian majority public over Putin joining these useless wars. The Russian public, its a open fact, are majority racist to Chechen’s. Putin knows this so he uses them as cannon fodder.
> 
> All I want is my fellow Muslim brothers not to be oppressed, not to be treated as cannon fodder and especially not be cannon fodder for a tyrannical regime which butchered their forefathers and don’t even give them complete religious freedom.


You must be talking about Abu Omar Al-Shishani (Checheni). 

What a Mujahid btw, they raped the captured women in the name of Islam. Ever heard of Jihad-Nikah and Jihad-Livat? In their concept of Jihad even men could marry to men. What kind of Jihad was that if i may ask? How could one woman sleep with tens of men in one night calling it Jihad? 

Kadyrov is a good man, under him Chechenya is a normal republic with its own autonomy.

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## jamahir

Jf-17 block 3 said:


> Disgusting. Their forefathers didn’t fight for this.



I have read your posts before. I know why you say that.



gambit said:


> You guys had all these decades to form such a bloc. What happened?



People tried in ways big and small. About one from your American source :


> _Al Mathaba_
> Anti-Imperialism Center (AIC)​Al Mathaba (meaning center) is the Libyan center for anti-imperialist propaganda which has funded third world guerilla groups. The Anti-Imperialism Center (AIC) - also known as Mathaba - is used by the Libyan Government to support terrorist networks and thus plays an important role in Qadhafi's terrorism strategy. Established in 1982 to support "liberation and revolutionary groups", the AIC has sponsored a number of stridently anti-Western conferences in Tripoli. At the same time, the AIC's mission is to identify and recruit revolutionaries for ideological and military training in Libya. During their training at AIC camps, individuals are selected for advanced training, including in weapons and explosives, and indoctrination. With representatives in many Libyan embassies worldwide, the AIC runs its own independent clandestine operations and disburses payments to terrorist, insurgent, and subversive groups.
> 
> As of 1992 the AIC was headed by Musa Kusa, a Qadhafi confidant who was also Libya's Deputy Foreign Minister. As of late 1995 Musa Kusa was the head of the Libyan External Security Organization (ESO), and was also the head of Al Mathaba.
> 
> Al Mathaba is more a concept than an organisation. Its origins are Libyan and its objective anti-imperialist. Libya's international activity is considerable. Some see it everywhere, behind every armed, or even radical, group. It was in 1982 that Libya took the initiative of organising an international organisation essentially based on the third world: Al Mathaba.
> 
> By calling the 3rd Al Mathaba Congress in August 2000, to mark the 30th anniversary of its revolution, with the participation of many representatives, particularly from Africa and Latin America, Libya no doubt hoped to affirm for itself an active international role, far beyond its small size. Judging by the level of participation, its plan was particularly well received, reflecting the high degree of sympathy Libya enjoys in the anti-imperialist world - the result of the continuity of its efforts over a period of time. Once an organization that backed morally, financially and physically the liberation movements seeking to overthrow oppressive regimes-ofttimes through armed struggle-Col. Gadhafi said that "after restructuring, (Mathaba) must confront the concept of globalization."
> 
> Many heads of state were present: Sam Nujoma (Namibia), Robert Mugabe (Zimbabwe), Yoweri Kaguta Musaveni (Uganda), Blaise Campraore (Burkina Faso), Alpha Oumar Konare (Mali), Yahya Jammeh (Gambia), Idris Deby (Chad), Abdou Diouf (Senegal), and the President of Guinea Bissao. Progressive political forces, communists and revolutionaries were there as well: the Cuban CP, Shaffik Handal (FMLN, San Salvador), the Guatamalan URNG, Tomas Borge and Daniel Ortega of the FSLN (Nicaragua), Raul Reyes (FARC, Columbia), a personal representative of Hugo Chavez (Venezuela), Lula, of the Brazilian Labour Party, Gladys Marin, General Secretary of the Chilian CP, Marina Arismendi, General Secretary of the Uruguayan CP. From Europe there was a very varied Italian delegation, with the Refoundation Communist Party in particular, and a Spanish delegation from the United Left (José Cabo) and from OSPAAAL.






lastofthepatriots said:


> Imagine rooting for for invaders from half way across the world. You must feel like a big man.



I don't need to feel "like a big man". I am satisfied with my height and personality. If you want to talk about invaders why don't you speak about your dear Western governments which have caused most of the wars since the end of World War 2 across the world and *invaded* places especially where there are progressive political and socio-economic systems, most recently in Libya and Syria ?

And forward my greetings to your "Ghost of Kiev".


----------



## dBSPL

Daniel808 said:


> Nice prize from Hostomol Airport
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497377109056102403


Calling all american SJWs to duty for the captive cat! This is unacceptable.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## lastofthepatriots

Jf-17 block 3 said:


> We can’t say Chechen’s have chosen Russia since Chechen’s can’t express their views openly without Kadyrov’s gangs killing and raping them.
> Chechens and Russians have always been enemies historically and always fought one another historically.
> Idk about Putin but Kadyrov is a brutal dictator and far worse then anyone else. If woman are caught wearing a niqab in Chechnya they are forced to take it off on live tv and shamed. Kadyrov kidnaps and kills his opponents. He even stoops down to such lows to rape his opponents sisters, wives and mothers and send them videos, an incident like that happened very recently. There was 2 years ago a video of a man getting forced by Kadyrov’s men to do nasty sexually harmful stuff to him self and the video is still online somewhere. Majority if not all of anti Kadyrov Chechens were forced to flee Chechnya. Many anti Russian Chechen mujahideen had to flee as well and instead ending up fighting in Syria and Iraq and Ukraine.
> Also Chechens are being treated as cannon fodder by Putin rn. Their sending Chechens because Chechen casualties won’t cause the same up roar in Russia as Russian casualties would.
> Putin isn’t more receptive to Muslims concerns he’s just doing what he thinks would help Russian interests. Putin supporting Assad and bombing any moving thing in Syria shows he doesn’t care about Muslims in fact no one in the world does even many Muslim countries don’t. Where European leaders are openly racist against Muslims, Putin talks sweet but kills more Muslims then majority of Europeans.
> Chechens did well but unfortunately lost and the war was getting too bloody however, at least if Russia wants peace in Chechnya at least allow religious freedom in Chechnya and basic human rights. Russian state only allows “traditional” Islam, whatever that is suppose to mean. Wear a niqab in Russia you’ll be labelled a wahabi and their banned in Russia along with “political” Islam, whatever that is suppose to mean.
> It seems more like Chechens being used as cannon fodder rather then servicing their own interests. A people who number just a few million in a country of around 150 million, are majority of Russian troops overseas in conflict zones. In Syria, majority Chechen’s being used. In Ukraine, Chechens being used as cannon fodder. In other places where Russia is Chechen’s being used. Russia uses Chechen’s in its wars to avoid backlash from the Russian majority public over Putin joining these useless wars. The Russian public, its a open fact, are majority racist to Chechen’s. Putin knows this so he uses them as cannon fodder.
> 
> All I want is my fellow Muslim brothers not to be oppressed, not to be treated as cannon fodder and especially not be cannon fodder for a tyrannical regime which butchered their forefathers and don’t even give them complete religious freedom.



I have a video of kadyrov’s dogs where they got killed. One of them that is recording is like wtf are we doing here. Too graphic to show. @The Eagle is a weird guy. He deletes everything on this thread but allows all kinds of pictures of blf dead and mutilated. 

It’s whatever but kadyrov is a kafir and a pig. Real chechens are followers of sheikh mansur and killing russians in Ukraine. They never forgot the atrocities the ruskis committed against them and want to skin kadyrov alive.


----------



## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497457229951377408
Zhytomyr is 124 Km from Kyiv.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497457651411828736

The Russians still have NOT gained air superiority


----------



## Khanate

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497232672350818305

Reactions: Like Like:
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## dBSPL

lastofthepatriots said:


> I have a video of kadyrov’s dogs here they got killed.


Pls send link dude.


----------



## RescueRanger

Khanate said:


> NBC news executive:
> 
> View attachment 818762
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497401278762151939


Yes because it's the innocent Russian students and expats that are responsible for the geo-strategic khichdi right now. . Typical response from low IQ people like Sington.


----------



## Man of steel23

Khanate said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497232672350818305



It is only syrian refugees dispatched from Damascus in collaboration with Assad in order to blackmail europe


----------



## TheNoob

Khanate said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497232672350818305



Pakistani... Refugees? 

wut

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## khansaheeb

Chak Bamu said:


> Chechens have aligned themselves with Russia. I suppose that was the sane thing to do. Also, Putin seems to be more receptive to Muslims' concerns as opposed to other Europeans. Chechens did well resisting Russians, but the war became pointless after destruction of Grozny. This may shock us, but Chechens are serving their own interests.
> 
> 
> Nice to see your post. I had not seen you around in what seems like a very long time.


Yes, but what about the cost to the Chechen people in loss of lives? If they lose too many soldiers this could endanger the Chechnyan republic and risk what little independence they have. Russians should send their own children to war, Muslims should stay out of it.

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## Muhammed45

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497307689407315970
*Chechen *forces.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## leviathan

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497313401822924803
> 
> Putin highly underestimated Ukrainian resolve.


lol Retard think this is 80 years ago...

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Sayfullah

jamahir said:


> I have read your posts before. I know why you say that.


Good. You understand then that I don’t stay silent and support any oppressor be it China or Russia or usa. 


lastofthepatriots said:


> I have a video of kadyrov’s dogs where they got killed. One of them that is recording is like wtf are we doing here. Too graphic to show. @The Eagle is a weird guy. He deletes everything on this thread but allows all kinds of pictures of blf dead and mutilated.
> 
> It’s whatever but kadyrov is a kafir and a pig. Real chechens are followers of sheikh mansur and killing russians in Ukraine. They never forgot the atrocities the ruskis committed against them and want to skin kadyrov alive.


I agree real Chechens are followers of Sheikh Mansur.


Muhammed45 said:


> You must be talking about Abu Omar Al-Shishani (Checheni).
> 
> What a Mujahid btw, they raped the captured women in the name of Islam. Ever heard of Jihad-Nikah and Jihad-Livat? In their concept of Jihad even men could marry to men. What kind of Jihad was that if i may ask? How could one woman sleep with tens of men in one night calling it Jihad?
> 
> Kadyrov is a good man, under him Chechenya is a normal republic with its own autonomy.


Kadyrov is a dog who sold out to oppressors and now is a oppressor. 
“Jihad-Nikah” and that type of propaganda by west Is similar to the type of propaganda india does as “love jihad”. 
Your probably talking about Russian puppets who did that but real mujahids never did.
Under Kadyrov Chechnya is no more then a Russian colony

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jamahir

Daniel808 said:


> Nice prize from Hostomol Airport
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497377109056102403
> 
> Another Airport fall to Russian hand
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497384184024911881





dBSPL said:


> Calling all american SJWs to duty for the captive cat! This is unacceptable.



I am a cat person and I hope that cat and all cats in Ukraine are safe.



Jf-17 block 3 said:


> Russian state only allows “traditional” Islam, whatever that is suppose to mean. Wear a niqab in Russia you’ll be labelled a wahabi and their banned in Russia along with “political” Islam, whatever that is suppose to mean.



I will tell you what that means in another thread because otherwise I will be given another warning here.



Jf-17 block 3 said:


> All I want is my fellow Muslim brothers not to be oppressed, not to be treated as cannon fodder and especially not be cannon fodder for a tyrannical regime which butchered their forefathers and don’t even give them complete religious freedom.



Then get your fellow Muslim brothers to stop being agents of Crusader Western governments when these governments want to do regime-change in progressive Muslim-majority systems like Libya and Syria.



lastofthepatriots said:


> It’s whatever but kadyrov is a kafir and a pig. Real chechens are followers of sheikh mansur and killing russians in Ukraine. They never forgot the atrocities the ruskis committed against them and want to skin kadyrov alive.



And what are you, a supporter of Al Qaeda ?


----------



## RescueRanger

TheNoob said:


> Pakistani... Refugees?
> 
> wut


All Indians have to throw Pakistan in the mud elsewise they get indigestion and need an extra large dose of digas.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## lastofthepatriots

jamahir said:


> I am a cat person and I hope that cat and all cats in Ukraine are safe.
> 
> 
> 
> I will tell you what that means in another thread because otherwise I will be given another warning here.
> 
> 
> 
> Then get your fellow Muslim brothers from being agents of Crusader Western governments when these governments want to do regime-change in progressive systems like Libya and Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> And what are you, a supporter of Al Qaeda ?



I support human dignity. You are a rabid russian supporter so you are blind to the fact that they are just as oppressive as the west.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Sayfullah

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497461221527891969


----------



## lastofthepatriots

dBSPL said:


> Pls send link dude.



I don’t want to get a ban from @The Eagle 

Message me on my profile

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Khanate

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497102500507402264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496895296110215169

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Haha Haha:
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## Vapnope

Khanate said:


> NBC news executive:
> 
> View attachment 818762
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497401278762151939


A true manifestation of a scum white person.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Sayfullah

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497459122446508033

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497460239196635137


----------



## Muhammed45

Jf-17 block 3 said:


> Kadyrov is a dog who sold out to oppressors and now is a oppressor.
> “Jihad-Nikah” and that type of propaganda by west Is similar to the type of propaganda india does as “love jihad”.
> Your probably talking about Russian puppets who did that but real mujahids never did.
> Under Kadyrov Chechnya is no more then a Russian colony


What colony? 

Chechenya has its autonomy, they practice their Sunni Islam freely without allowing certain elements to destroy their free lives. The autonomy that Indians took from Kashmir, Chechen people still have thanks to wise leadership of Kadyrov.

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## dBSPL

“We welcome the refusal of Kazakhstan to send its troops to participate in the Russian war in Ukraine”

—Ukraine Defense and Security council

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Sayfullah

jamahir said:


> I will tell you what that means in another thread because otherwise I will be given another warning here.
> 
> 
> Then get your fellow Muslim brothers from being agents of Crusader Western governments when these governments want to do regime-change in progressive systems like Libya and Syria.


I don’t want to reply here because it would be derailing the thread 

But Kadyrov is a dog and it’s a shame seeing Chechen’s be treated as cannon fodder by Russians in this war against Ukraine



Muhammed45 said:


> What colony?
> 
> Chechenya has its autonomy, they practice their Sunni Islam freely without allowing certain elements to destroy their free lives. The autonomy that Indians took from Kashmir, Chechen people still have thanks to wise leadership of Kadyrov.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497462195839332352

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## jamahir

lastofthepatriots said:


> I support human dignity. You are a rabid russian supporter so you are blind to the fact that they are just as oppressive as the west.



I didn't quite read your condemnations of the Western governments' invasionary and destabilizing and regime-changing actions in your posts since yesterday.



leviathan said:


> lol Retard think this is 80 years ago...



His are famous last words it seems.



Khanate said:


> NBC news executive:
> 
> View attachment 818762
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497401278762151939





Vapnope said:


> A true manifestation of a scum white person.



That Biden's advisor, how brainwashed can he be.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Sayfullah

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497462554314039296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497460588057960450

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497462193184559110


----------



## Khanate

Ready to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497267651470454784

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Vapnope

What doesn't make sense is that why Ukraine did not see it coming and asked for military aid for last 6 months. It appears now that they are on their own with only little help from outside.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Sayfullah

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497245501506392072New invasions coming soon?


----------



## RescueRanger

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497462195839332352


That looks like a residential/commercial complex to me.



Vapnope said:


> What doesn't make sense is that why Ukraine did not see it coming and asked for military aid for last 6 months. It appears now that they are on their own with only little help from outside.


Remember when Israel vetoed Iron dome supply to Ukraine and now their ministers are offering "solidarity" to the same country.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wergeland

gambit said:


> So imagine Ukraine came into ownership of the world's 3rd largest nuclear stockpile. All those yrs they were steward of immense destructive power, then all of a sudden, they were on their own. They can do whatever they want with all those nuclear warheads. They can make a lot of money with them. Or they can wield them on the world's stage for their own benefits. I doubt that Ukraine looked at their situation at the helicopter level like we are today and considered a nuclear armed Ukraine a negative factor regarding nuclear armament or disarmament. One could even excuse Ukraine if they acted selfishly with those nuclear weapons.
> 
> But then somehow, Russia convinced Ukraine to give up those nuclear guarantors of independence and security.
> 
> 
> Buffer states walks a thin line between independence and servitude. They know they are always the first to suffer any anxious moment of the more powerful sides that they lives in-between. They very much tacitly serve two masters. Every decision, domestic or foreign, must be assessed to see if the estimated outcome could trigger a response from either master. Everyone know their lands will always be the first battlegrounds.
> 
> 
> It is true that we really do not know. But what we do know is that once a predator had a taste of human flesh, it usually want more. Predatory nation-states are no different. Now we see Russia tasting Ukrainian flesh.



The main question here Gambit:
Why is America not helping Ukraine?

Russia is all those bad things
Ukraine is all those good things
But yet America is sitting home safely and putting mere sanctions which the Russian give zero damn about.
Where is the mighty US Army?

You see now how different the world is today than it was just 20 years ago.

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## Khanate

Jf-17 block 3 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497245501506392072New invasions coming soon?




Best deal in Europe this month

Invade one country then invade another for free.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## dBSPL

Muhammed45 said:


> What colony?
> 
> Chechenya has its autonomy, they practice their Sunni Islam freely without allowing certain elements to destroy their free lives. The autonomy that Indians took from Kashmir, Chechen people still have thanks to wise leadership of Kadyrov.


Chechnya's appointed leader Ramzan Kadyrov voluntarily gave up his republic's special status in 2010. Thus earned informal perks from the Kremlin. On July 24, 2017, the autonomy agreement signed in 1994 between Moscow and Kazan expired, making Tatarstan the last republic of Russia to lose its special status. The Russian system has been dominated by an authoritarian model of federalis with Putin. This is among the reasons for Putin's first term election success. Autonomy in Russia is only on paper. There is now a very strong central government.

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## Genghis khan1

ezerdi2 said:


> Russians must ask themselves the question why they can no longer influence even the small border countries , the method of force no longer works, it is soft power and money that matters now , the US does not even need to ask the eastern countries to join NATO, they are the ones who do it of their own free will.
> Russia has the potential to become N1 in the economy and have an influence as great as the US, They have insane potential but a Third World mentality. Yet they have brains, good scientists, economists, men of culture, etc., everything needed to develop this vast territory.


Sometimes when game is rigged and rules are not fair, it’s better to flip the board then wasting time playing the game just to lose at the end.

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## Muhammed45

Hope, till engines of Russian tanks are hot, they take Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania too. It wouldn't be hard and an strong massage to Finland.

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## Sayfullah

Muhammed45 said:


> Hope, till engines of Russian tanks are hot, they take Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania too. It wouldn't be hard and an strong massage to Finland.


Wishful thinking.
Russia won’t dare invade nato and risk starting a nuclear war


----------



## TheNoob

Muhammed45 said:


> Hope, till engines of Russian tanks are hot, they take Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania too. It wouldn't be hard and an strong massage to Finland.



This is just strong-arming, once Ukraine has been weakened militarily and they depose of that comedian, it'll be back to negotiations and everyone will forget about this in 2 months time.

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## Khanate

Putin: I Asked US President Bill Clinton, "How Would USA Feel About Russia Joining NATO?"​

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## dBSPL

Kadyrov is a mafia boss under the protection of Russia, who sells the political rights of his people for his own future. When the Ukrainian crisis calms down a bit, I can write something about their illegal activities in the Black Sea and the Caucasus. There are also some Turkish court decisions regarding gangs affiliated with Kadyrov.

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## Daniel808

Morning from kiev


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497431973777883139


----------



## Jugger

gambit said:


> You guys had all these decades to form such a bloc. What happened?


Glad to see you after a long time.


----------



## Daniel808

Big Catch today  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497063602183884839
From Mariupol

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497465414519226375
Reported : Russian Tricolor flag raised at Melitopol City

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497462413083521031

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## Muhammed45

Jf-17 block 3 said:


> Wishful thinking.
> Russia won’t dare invade nato and risk starting a nuclear war


If west completely imposes sanctions on RUssia then there wouldn't be any reason for Russians to hesitate. Nothing to lose in fact. 

The three Baltic states belong to Russia geographically, you can see Kaliningrad right behind them.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497469985081507840


----------



## sammuel

vostok said:


> Western-Ukrainian neo-Nazi came to power after illegal coup are slaves of the West, as their grandfathers were during Western invasion of USSR in 1941. And Westerners are glad to have bunch of idiots to use them against Russia.



And why should the will of the Ukrainian people not be respected ?

Russian tank crushes Ukrainian car with person inside :​








~


----------



## beijingwalker

CGTN exclusive: Russian Foreign Ministry responds to sanctions against Russia​


----------



## Daniel808

Wagner is coming  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497456279987658754

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## dBSPL

Muhammed45 said:


> The three Baltic states belong to Russia geographically, you can see Kaliningrad right behind them.


Bro, a german with the same perspective can say that Königsberg is the old capital of herself.

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## Daniel808

Priazovskoe successfully liberated by Russian troops


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497451842191699975

Ukraine Defence Lines Collapsing all around Donbass Front

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497457981348327424

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497458233832882188

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497458485251956741

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## gambit

Wergeland said:


> The main question here Gambit:
> Why is America not helping Ukraine?
> 
> Russia is all those bad things
> Ukraine is all those good things
> But yet America is sitting home safely and putting mere sanctions which the Russian give zero damn about.
> Where is the mighty US Army?
> 
> You see now how different the world is today than it was just 20 years ago.


In order for the American president to do anything, domestic and foreign, he must have legal authority, or at least the facade of such. NATO membership is that legal authority. It mean since Ukraine is not a NATO member, we cannot *DIRECTLY* help Ukraine. Sympathetically, the American people stands with Ukraine, but legally speaking, and I know how it sounds 'hiding' behind the legality shield, the American people are tired of sending troops to foreign lands and fight with little or no national security interests.

What we can and will do is help Ukraine *INDIRECTLY* via the porcupine policy, or a repeat of the Soviet occupied Afghanistan policy. We will send sophisticated weapons to the Baltic countries who will send the weapons via land routes to Ukraine. We should have done this earlier but it is not too late to arm the Ukrainians enough to make life difficult for the Russian occupation.



Jugger said:


> Glad to see you after a long time.


Been busy. I recently moved from the Wild Wild West part of the US back to the east coast nearer to my family. So I have been busy spending time with my little niece and nephew.

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## Khanate

RescueRanger said:


> Remember when Israel vetoed Iron dome supply to Ukraine and now their ministers are offering "solidarity" to the same country.




Remember when Ukraine wanted to open embassy in Jerusalem in violation of the international law and without a word on Golan Heights

Ukraine Ambassador Says Jerusalem Is Israel's Capital, Teases Embassy Opening
The number of misstep Zelenskyy has made is beyond comprehension.

I pray Ukraine survive this idiot.

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## RescueRanger

Khanate said:


> Remember when Ukraine wanted to open embassy in Jerusalem in violation of the international law and without a word on Golan Heights
> 
> Ukraine Ambassador Says Jerusalem Is Israel's Capital, Teases Embassy Opening
> The number of misstep Zelenskyy has made is beyond comprehension.
> 
> I pray Ukraine survive this idiot.


100 %

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## Muhammed45

dBSPL said:


> Bro, a german with the same perspective can say that Königsberg is the old capital of herself.


That is true but currently it is called Kaliningrad. 

Russia has to make sure there is no land route into Ukraine from its north western coast lines.

Germany doesn't want to directly engage with RUssia. So the three Baltic states are the only cncern after taking over Ukraine


----------



## Khanate

Wergeland said:


> The main question here Gambit:
> Why is America not helping Ukraine?
> 
> Russia is all those bad things
> Ukraine is all those good things
> But yet America is sitting home safely and putting mere sanctions which the Russian give zero damn about.
> Where is the mighty US Army?
> 
> You see now how different the world is today than it was just 20 years ago.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## beijingwalker

gambit said:


> In order for the American president to do anything, domestic and foreign, he must have legal authority, or at least the facade of such. NATO membership is that legal authority. It mean since Ukraine is not a NATO member, we cannot *DIRECTLY* help Ukraine. Sympathetically, the American people stands with Ukraine, but legally speaking, and I know how it sounds 'hiding' behind the legality shield, the American people are tired of sending troops to foreign lands and fight with little or no national security interests.
> 
> What we can and will do is help Ukraine *INDIRECTLY* via the porcupine policy, or a repeat of the Soviet occupied Afghanistan policy. We will send sophisticated weapons to the Baltic countries who will send the weapons via land routes to Ukraine. We should have done this earlier but it is not too late to arm the Ukrainians enough to make life difficult for the Russian occupation.
> 
> 
> Been busy. I recently moved from the Wild Wild West part of the US back to the east coast nearer to my family. So I have been busy spending time with my little niece and nephew.


Spinning lies again, when Nato attacked Yugoslavia to aid the anti government rebels in 1999, did you respect the sovreignty of Yugoslavia? You just went ahead and dismembered a sovreingn country.

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## khansaheeb




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## Man of steel23

Putin wants Ukraine to be completed as fast as possible so that he can make quickly move on Finland. I previously thought they would have a few years of pause but he may move on Finland as quick as few months after concluding Ukraine..

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## Vapnope

gambit said:


> he must have legal authority, or at least the facade of such


I dont think these were available when help was sent to "Rebels" in Syria.

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## nahtanbob

beijingwalker said:


> Spinning lies again, when Nato attacked Yugoslavia to aid the anti government rebels in 1999, did you respect the sovreignty of Yugoslavia? You just went ahead and dismembered a sovreingn country.



Yugoslavia was a federal republic of 6 constituent states. They did not follow their own rules. Are the Serbs even complaining about the breakup ?


----------



## dBSPL

Khanate said:


> View attachment 818797


----------



## jamahir

gambit said:


> Been busy. I recently moved from the Wild Wild West part of the US back to the east coast nearer to my family. So I have been busy spending time with my little niece and nephew.



Do you ever think about the nieces and nephews in all the countries your illegal military and its state and non-state allies killed and injured ?

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## frequency

Beast said:


> Those drone are useless against a proper military forces. They are only good against AK-47 armed ISIS fighters or militants who cant fight back against UCAV.



China is clueless about warfare fighting. Never fight a real war let alone talking about warfare strategy. All you're good at is killing your own people who are unarmed. Wait until someone shoot back at you then you will learn. This war talk is for adult, not for immature children.

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## dBSPL

Man of steel23 said:


> Putin wants Ukraine to be completed as fast as possible so that he can make quickly move on Finland. I previously thought they would have a few years of pause but he may move on Finland as quick as few months after concluding Ukraine..


Bro calm down, You can hardly do that even in Hearts of Iron. You need to lower the attrition first.

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## beijingwalker

nahtanbob said:


> Yugoslavia was a federal republic of 6 constituent states. They did not follow their own rules. Are the Serbs even complaining about the breakup ?


Was Kosov part of Seibia back then? Did you respect the sovreingnty of Serbia?

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## Muhammed45

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497209772558491650
Topol-M ICBMs being deployed around Moscow.

Better to call it a Washington-checking knight of this chessboard.

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## Tamerlane

Imran Khan met Kadyrov on his trip to Moscow. Without getting into the nitty gritty of who follows which sheikh, I can say that he’s done a great job of rebuilding Chechnya with Putin’s support. Putin’s policy regarding Muslims is probably better than any other European or Western country. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497007555628855296
Here’s a recent video of a Russian YouTuber’s visit to Grozny. It’s obvious that the city is prosperous and people follow very conservative Islamic values.

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## frequency

Wergeland said:


> The main question here Gambit:
> Why is America not helping Ukraine?
> 
> Russia is all those bad things
> Ukraine is all those good things
> But yet America is sitting home safely and putting mere sanctions which the Russian give zero damn about.
> Where is the mighty US Army?
> 
> You see now how different the world is today than it was just 20 years ago.


Gambit is a lost troll. He's a retired soldier of the past. Cold war era. Today, Putin/Russia has proved to us that this is no longer a cold war. It's a real war.

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## Man of steel23

dBSPL said:


> Bro calm down, You can hardly do that even in Hearts of Iron. You need to lower the attrition first.



In his speech he said that Lenin made a mistake in 1917 giving up some of the territories and guess what Finland is one of the territories Lenin released.. If people were paying attention you can notice in that speech Finland was indirectly included as one of the mistakes. I initially think he will control the attrition for few years 5-10 years before making move on Finland but he may opt to hurry that up if armament starts to flow to Finland he could drop the attrition control and make a rapid move and that is if his hands were forced but rationally he will do attrition control first but if he was absolutely forced which I can't exclude he may move immediately post-Ukraine


----------



## jamahir

Khanate said:


> View attachment 818797



He is ready I think :

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## QWECXZ

Jf-17 block 3 said:


> Wishful thinking.
> Russia won’t dare invade nato and risk starting a nuclear war


There will be no risk of a nuclear war. No nuclear state is going to nuke another nuclear armed state over a third party. This is ridiculous. Do you think the US, the UK or France would ever dare to nuke Russia over some joke of a country like Albania, Lithuania, Estonia or North Macedonia? At best, it will be some limited conventional strikes on Russia and more severe economic sanctions.

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## Beast

frequency said:


> China is clueless about warfare fighting. Never fight a real war let alone talking about warfare strategy. All you're good at is killing your own people who are unarmed. Wait until someone shoot back at you then you will learn. This war talk is for adult, not for immature children.


LOL... Are you the immature children? I guess must be supernatural power help PLA defeat US and India in 1953 and 1962 warfare. You comment just show u are a shallow frog living in your own well.

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## RescueRanger

Well whilst scanning C/W frequencies I managed to pick up an ATIS Station broadcast for an airport, unable to figure out which Airport. 12740 kHz -6Db. I am including the audio file .





__





SndUp | Post info


Record, upload, share! SndUp is a social network, for audio! We enable you to upload audio clips and share them with the world. Sharing your talent is simple!



sndup.net

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## Daniel808

frequency said:


> China is clueless about warfare fighting. Never fight a real war let alone talking about warfare strategy. All you're good at is killing your own people who are unarmed. Wait until someone shoot back at you then you will learn. This war talk is for adult, not for immature children.



bla bla bla

Yeah, China didn’t know anything about war. But they can slaughter and humiliated the army that almost in constant war with their neighbour for the last 50 years

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## frequency

ezerdi2 said:


> Russians must ask themselves the question why they can no longer influence even the small border countries , the method of force no longer works, it is soft power and money that matters now , the US does not even need to ask the eastern countries to join NATO, they are the ones who do it of their own free will.
> Russia has the potential to become N1 in the economy and have an influence as great as the US, They have insane potential but a Third World mentality. Yet they have brains, good scientists, economists, men of culture, etc., everything needed to develop this vast territory.


Because Russians are too selfish.


----------



## jamahir

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 818800
> 
> 
> Well whilst scanning C/W frequencies I managed to pick up an ATIS Station broadcast for an airport, unable to figure out which Airport. 12740 kHz -6Db. I am including the audio file .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SndUp | Post info
> 
> 
> Record, upload, share! SndUp is a social network, for audio! We enable you to upload audio clips and share them with the world. Sharing your talent is simple!
> 
> 
> 
> sndup.net



Not related to this war but your postings of these radio listenings reminds me of when I would listen on shortwave to Radio Netherlands, BBC World Service and occasionally Radio France International, and on FM to Vividh Bharti ( All India Radio ). For a few years Radio Netherlands would seen me bi-monthly booklets about forthcoming programs and more info about current programs.

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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497478889592868864

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## Man of steel23

Beast said:


> LOL... Are you the immature children? I guess must be supernatural power help PLA defeat US and India in 1953 and 1962 warfare. You comment just show u are a shallow frog living in your own well.



I am not saying China is useless otherwise I would be lying but these drones are doing damage and confirmed by the Ukrainian side. They have destroyed convoys and just because there is no video release doesn't mean they aren't and in fact Drones are doing most damage on both sides now... Russian drones have also destroyed convoys and tit for tat.. But Ukraine doesn't have more then 20-30 pieces but in truth you need to put 1000s upon 10000s in air supported by strong jamming systems they will rip thru even a 10 chinese division within hours


----------



## Beast

Daniel808 said:


> bla bla bla
> 
> Yeah, China didn’t know anything about war. But they can slaughter and humiliated the army that almost in constant war with their neighbour for the last 50 years
> 
> View attachment 818801


He will claim its photoshop by Chinese. India killed 5000 Chinese soldiers. Western is too strong for PRC but they still recognized one China policy and no recognized of Taiwan independent,

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## khansaheeb

Man of steel23 said:


> Putin wants Ukraine to be completed as fast as possible so that he can make quickly move on Finland. I previously thought they would have a few years of pause but he may move on Finland as quick as few months after concluding Ukraine..


Doubt it very much, they can't have a burning insurgency behind them in Ukraine else it might turn into a wild fire. Ukraine would need to be totally subdued and then Russia may look into the next phase . Act in haste will make Russia suffer at leisure.


----------



## Beast

Man of steel23 said:


> I am not saying China is useless otherwise I would be lying but these drones are doing damage and confirmed by the Ukrainian side. They have destroyed convoys and just because there is no video release doesn't mean they aren't and in fact Drones are doing most damage on both sides now... Russian drones have also destroyed convoys and tit for tat.. But Ukraine doesn't have more then 20-30 pieces but in truth you need to but 1000s in air supported by strong jamming systems they will rip thru even a 10 chinese divisions


@The Eagle @WebMaster

clone account spotted. This account same as @frequency

This one try to do propaganda here and create a scene of group of people but same one to support his view.

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## M.AsfandYar

sammuel said:


> And why should the will of the Ukrainian people not be respected ?
> 
> Russian tank crushes Ukrainian car with person inside :​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


That is proven to be ukrainian AD vehicle. Strella or something.

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## Man of steel23

Beast said:


> @The Eagle @WebMaster
> 
> clone account spotted. This account same as @frequency



I am not Frequency.. I reply that way so that you don't misunderstand me because I don't agree with his analogy saying the chinese are useless.. I believe the Chinese are solid fighting force and force to be reckoned.. This is my honest opinion


----------



## RescueRanger

jamahir said:


> Not related to this war but your postings of these radio listenings reminds me of when I would listen on shortwave to Radio Netherlands, BBC World Service and occasionally Radio France International, and on FM to Vividh Bharti ( All India Radio ). For a few years Radio Netherlands would seen me bi-monthly booklets about forthcoming programs and more info about current programs.


Yes, its a shame more people don't consider scanning MW/CW frequencies as part of OSINT. I was taught how to use a HAM radio at a very early age by my grand uncle and have maintained that skill since, I too remember BBC World Service, they would broadcast lessons on Astronomy from the Open University every Sunday by Patrick Moore. .

Radio is truly the grandfather of the modern "cyberspace".

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497480061712310273
Missiles to the civilian buildings

It is no different from Syria. Fortunately, bombing Ukraine costs less in terms of logistics.


----------



## frequency

Beast said:


> LOL... Are you the immature children? I guess must be supernatural power help PLA defeat US and India in 1953 and 1962 warfare. You comment just show u are a shallow frog living in your own well.


Go tell Xi Jinping to start a war with USA right now. I'm waiting for him. If your master can't prove himself, then the result is China is still weak. I'm actually looking forward to Xi Jinping declare war with USA.


----------



## LeGenD

There are reports of heroic sacrifices of Ukranian soldiers in some locations.

Russian forces were attempting to cross Henichesky Bridge and there was no time to detonate it remotely. Ukranian soldier Vitaly Skakun took this matter into his own hands, blew up the bridge and sacrificed his life in the process. 

Salute to this brave soul.

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## frequency

Beast said:


> @The Eagle @WebMaster
> 
> clone account spotted. This account same as @frequency
> 
> This one try to do propaganda here and create a scene of group of people but same one to support his view.



You can ask the admin to check the IP addresses. No need to crybaby about clone accounts.


----------



## Beast

frequency said:


> Go tell Xi Jinping to start a war with USA right now. I'm waiting for him. If your master can't prove himself, then the result is China is still weak. I'm actually looking forward to Xi Jinping declare war with USA.


US recognized PRC only. US respect one China policy and never establish official ties with Taiwan. Why would China need to start war with USA? USA already failed in Ukraine. You must be very upset and emotional unstable. Taiwan will share the same fate like Ukraine. US no balls to fight China. 

It is you who need to prove US has the balls to take on PRC China.

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## jamahir

RescueRanger said:


> I too remember BBC World Service, they would broadcast lessons on Astronomy from the Open University every Sunday by Patrick Moore. .



I stopped listening in 2010 mainly because my two-in-one could no longer be operable so you must have been listening to that program after that year. Also, I simply was sad at the amount of lies BBC was saying. Yet I fondly remember the late Charlie Gillet's world music program, a business program among others.



RescueRanger said:


> Radio is truly the grandfather of the modern "cyberspace".



Agreed.

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## Beast

frequency said:


> You can ask the admin to check the IP addresses. No need to crybaby about clone accounts.


He will check and you ready to get ban for multiple account with propaganda purpose.


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497462195839332352


@Trango Towers


----------



## serenity

frequency said:


> China is clueless about warfare fighting. Never fight a real war let alone talking about warfare strategy. All you're good at is killing your own people who are unarmed. Wait until someone shoot back at you then you will learn. This war talk is for adult, not for immature children.



I dunno man. China beat the US coalition in Korea. US coalition took the entire country of Korea. China entered the Korean war. Fought against a much more technologically advanced coalition of forces to the highest life exchange rate ever experienced by US after WW2 and to this day the US never lost so many soldiers, and fought them back to the midway line where the US was first to ask for a ceasefire in the Korean war and for both sides to pause at this line.

That's not clueless about warfighting. Korea is the forgotten war because it's hard to remember how such a poor backwards and undeveloped nation that just came out of revolution and civil war along with wars of invasion could fight so well.

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## Man of steel23




----------



## Inception-06

RescueRanger said:


> Yes you should have seen
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497298301665828876





dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497298301665828876



Was expecting this loses and more will happen, logistical line, and communication line are easy targets for Ukraine troops which have fallen back or were hidden.

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## RescueRanger

As a new day begins in mainland Europe, several NATO aircraft can be seen in the skies of countries neighboring Ukraine.

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## dBSPL

Lol...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497474945286352896
Man, the whole tragedy of the war is a source of sadness for all of us, but on the other hand, we're really starting to see something funny things again...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497478435240923136Russian uncle gets angry with his nephews...

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## serenity

frequency said:


> Go tell Xi Jinping to start a war with USA right now. I'm waiting for him. If your master can't prove himself, then the result is China is still weak. I'm actually looking forward to Xi Jinping declare war with USA.



Why doesn't USA declare war on China? Guess USA is weaker than China by your logic?

Why doesn't India declare war on China? We were waiting for India to go to war. Amit Shah said himself in 2018 that he will make India take Aksai Chin. So far we have made all the steel that will shred your Jai Hinds into pieces and waiting for them but so far the Jai Hinds only ran into rivers and surrendered in their hundreds. Jaishankar then cried to the Australians about how the Chinese are not weak and did not hand Aksai Chin over but rather even had the daring to reinforce western China with more military presence in response to India's aggression and the inbalance in forces. India couldn't go to war even with more forces than China. That's real weakness.








big hordes of Jai Hindi bindis very brave with their equipments and weapons when they haven't started fighting

Then fighting against the Chinese and the Indians surrendered and captured in hundreds. Even dozens of INSAS rifles captured.






















lol at saying China can't fight.

China fucked the indians up without taking off a glove.

China beat the US back from China's borders during Korea war and fought the entire US coalition forces and carved out an entire country when China was not 1/10 the country it is now.

Instead of saying China is weak because China doesn't dare declare war on USA. Why not ask why should China declare war on USA? China is making trillions from selling to USA which is increasing every year.

USA pays China interest in the multi billions every year from the debt USA owes China and the volume of US bonds China holds.

Why should China declare war on the country that is half already China's bitch. The bitch can cry to other bitches about how being a bitch is a shit thing but end of the day China benefits from this set up.

Why doesn't USA declare war on China? Instead of only the bitchfest it could muster the strength up for? Why only propaganda war? Clearly your logic is off. It is USA that is showing weakness rather than China by refusing to do anything more than constant daily bitching about China.

China barely even bothers to respond to the bitching that's how big the true power gap is.

The above response from me is fair (although arrogant and not what I actually think is sensible) for something as stupid as this below...

_"Go tell Xi Jinping to start a war with USA right now. I'm waiting for him. If your master can't prove himself, then the result is China is still weak. I'm actually looking forward to Xi Jinping declare war with USA."_

It's like someone telling you to go cut your hand off to prove you're a man and brave. Otherwise you're a pussy. You think China and Chinese are this stupid like yourself? Lol good luck. This is why USA cries all day about losing more and more power to China. Because we're not morons and know which battles to fight and which to ignore and which to respond to in what kind of ways.

And this is why despite being starting with more money and institutions and development, India today has 50% of its people shitting on streets and wiping their dirty asses with their hands. 30% of Indians are undernourished and living in poverty, double digit percentages of Indians in abject extreme poverty. You see your provocations don't work. Your ways with words and propaganda don't work to incite war between the two superpowers so your pathetic little india can get a bit more. You got nothing. We ain't going to war over nothing. If any of us get hurt, you streetshitters will get your consequences too for playing provocateur and propagandist all over the world.

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## TopGun786

sammuel said:


> And why should the will of the Ukrainian people not be respected ?
> 
> Russian tank crushes Ukrainian car with person inside :​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


Isra-el doing the same to Palestinians on regular basis, right?

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> Lol...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497474945286352896
> Man, the whole tragedy of the war is a source of sadness for all of us, but on the other hand, we're really starting to see something funny things again...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497478435240923136Russian uncle gets angry with his nephews...


ATGM are still in their racks inside, there were reports earlier on TRT that some vehicles have been simply abandoned because of engine troubles. This could be one such vehicle, also reports that Russian soldiers are removing their clothes and dressing up as civilians to try and blend in. 

Whatever happens, this is now going to become a long and protracted mess.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Man of steel23

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497485783220961282


----------



## frequency

Beast said:


> US recognized PRC only. US respect one China policy and never establish official ties with Taiwan. Why would China need to start war with USA? USA already failed in Ukraine. You must be very upset and emotional unstable. Taiwan will share the same fate like Ukraine. US no balls to fight China.
> 
> It is you who need to prove US has the balls to take on PRC China.



It's USA who created China. Not the other way around. You seem to forget history. Oh right, you erased history and try to make your own. I'm still waiting for you to call your master, Xi, to invade USA. Let's go, I'm waiting. Let me know when you have the courage.



serenity said:


> I dunno man. China beat the US coalition in Korea. US coalition took the entire country of Korea. China entered the Korean war. Fought against a much more technologically advanced coalition of forces to the highest life exchange rate ever experienced by US after WW2 and to this day the US never lost so many soldiers, and fought them back to the midway line where the US was first to ask for a ceasefire in the Korean war and for both sides to pause at this line.
> 
> That's not clueless about warfighting. Korea is the forgotten war because it's hard to remember how such a poor backwards and undeveloped nation that just came out of revolution and civil war along with wars of invasion could fight so well.


2 seconds is not a war. Again, you only proved to be incompetent the more you talk. LOL


----------



## thetutle

beijingwalker said:


> Was Kosov part of Seibia back then? Did you respect the sovreingnty of Serbia?



Kosovo was not part of Serbia, it was a part of Yugoslavia, a western imperial project. And the west, just as it made Yugoslavia, dismantled Yugoslavia. And everyone is happier because if this. So no one harmed Serbian territorial integrity.

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## alimobin memon

The residential building in ukraine was actually got hit by s300 missile, which was launched few miles away

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## dBSPL

RescueRanger said:


> ATGM are still in their racks inside, there were reports earlier on TRT that some vehicles have been simply abandoned because of engine troubles. This could be one such vehicle, also reports that Russian soldiers are removing their clothes and dressing up as civilians to try and blend in.
> 
> Whatever happens, this is now going to become a long and protracted mess.


Swamp. low cost for the USA, high cost for Russia.

Also, other problems may arise in Syria.

If I understand correctly; The US strategy of basically swapping roles with Russia can create a really interesting reality. However, Russia may become even more aggressive (like the nuclear threat) and turn this into a struggle for existence.

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## serenity

frequency said:


> It's USA who created China. Not the other way around. You seem to forget history. Oh right, you erased history and try to make your own. I'm still waiting for you to call your master, Xi, to invade USA. Let's go, I'm waiting. Let me know when you have the courage.
> 
> 
> 2 seconds is not a war. Again, you only proved to be incompetent the more you talk. LOL



Nah why declare war on the country that owes us so much money and pays on time every time? No thanks, better to own the USA than to declare war on it. Maybe that's why you hide behind flags. Your kind and your people have achieved nothing and done nothing while making shit up about others. Deep down you know... you know who you are and you don't even want to show your real flag but pose behind a Canadian one. China's weak and has no balls because it doesn't want to go to war with the USA?? ... lmao.

Korean war lasted for over 2 years... I think everyone can see who is the incompetent one.

Go back to holding your ears.

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## dBSPL

Beaten russian soldiers by civilians (I hope Zaharova doesn't call these radical religious terrorists.)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497488047797149697


----------



## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497483822795223041

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## jamahir

sammuel said:


> And why should the will of the Ukrainian people not be respected ?
> 
> Russian tank crushes Ukrainian car with person inside :​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~





TopGun786 said:


> Isra-el doing the same to Palestinians on regular basis, right?

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## IceCold

F-22Raptor said:


> If Putin keeps up, he”ll be taught a lesson about the definition of superpower


I don't know what part of the above you find funny but in reality, it is Russia that is teaching the West including the US, definition of a superpower.

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## dBSPL

Another

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497483653085077505

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## Song Hong

Negotiation between Putin and Zelensky breaks down. Putin call Zelensky a terrorist and Zelensky rally his lackies to fight till death.





__ https://www.facebook.com/globaltimesnews/posts/5033883130025880

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## Dai Toruko

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497471943200710656

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## serenity

Song Hong said:


> Negotiation between Putin and Zelensky breaks down. Putin call Zelensky a terrorist and Zelensky rally his lackies to fight till death.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/globaltimesnews/posts/5033883130025880



Putin's requests were probably too unacceptable. Basically no doubt it would be asking for control of all of Ukraine and ending the war. Russia cannot keep paying for fighting against insurgents. It will continue incurring small losses even if much smaller losses than Ukraine, it is brothers killing brothers over politics and meddling from others. USA left Ukraine to fend Russia off alone.

USA at most would supply insurgent forces just like Mujahideen against Soviets in Afghanistan. This means long fighting and continuing losses.

Putin tells Z that he has lost, Russia will control Kiev eventually but at the cost of needing to continue fighting insurgents. Also most Ukrainians and Europeans will not accept the Russian Ukraine.

All of this works to US advantage.

Meanwhile USA holds greater influence over Europe and more European countries think of joining EU or NATO or both if they are not already in both. Russia therefore told Sweden and Finland they are not to join NATO otherwise Russia would respond.

It is action, reaction cycle up the escalation ladder but who started it and who does it serve? Putin only has loss in war on Ukraine. It is his best choice out of a bag of shit choices.

USA started this from 2013 with Mccain in Kiev talking about it and then Euromaidan.

The escalation ladder is favoring USA so far. It loses nothing. Controls Europe more, capital flight out of Russia and Ukraine into USA. More countries interested in joining NATO and following US rule. All for what price? Putin's Russia pays high prices for this with nothing to gain. Let's remmeber that Ukraine was already Russian controlled until US influence and infiltration eventually created 2014 Euromaidan.

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## dBSPL

absurd comedy

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497485623225200640

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## Domobran7

Something on the war:








Russia Attacks Ukraine


Russian forces have started their attack on Ukraine at Thursday, about 5 AM local time. It was not unexpected, yet it caught the world apparently by surprise. Attack was opened with cruise and ball…




historyandwarfare.wordpress.com

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## casual

Song Hong said:


> Negotiation between Putin and Zelensky breaks down. Putin call Zelensky a terrorist and Zelensky rally his lackies to fight till death.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/globaltimesnews/posts/5033883130025880


Is Zelensky still holding out hope that the US will fly in and save his ***? Or is he letting his personal hatred toward Putin override his responsibility to his people? His logical move is to try to secure a ceasefire ASAP.


----------



## Song Hong

serenity said:


> Putin's requests were probably too unacceptable. Basically no doubt it would be asking for control of all of Ukraine and ending the war. Russia cannot keep paying for fighting against insurgents. It will continue incurring small losses even if much smaller losses than Ukraine, it is brothers killing brothers over politics and meddling from others. USA left Ukraine to fend Russia off alone.
> 
> USA at most would supply insurgent forces just like Mujahideen against Soviets in Afghanistan. This means long fighting and continuing losses.
> 
> Putin tells Z that he has lost, Russia will control Kiev eventually but at the cost of needing to continue fighting insurgents. Also most Ukrainians and Europeans will not accept the Russian Ukraine.
> 
> All of this works to US advantage.
> 
> Meanwhile USA holds greater influence over Europe and more European countries think of joining EU or NATO or both if they are not already in both. Russia therefore told Sweden and Finland they are not to join NATO otherwise Russia would respond.
> 
> It is action, reaction cycle up the escalation ladder but who started it and who does it serve? Putin only has loss in war on Ukraine. It is his best choice out of a bag of shit choices.
> 
> USA started this from 2013 with Mccain in Kiev talking about it and then Euromaidan.
> 
> The escalation ladder is favoring USA so far. It loses nothing. Controls Europe more, capital flight out of Russia and Ukraine into USA. More countries interested in joining NATO and following US rule. All for what price? Putin's Russia pays high prices for this with nothing to gain. Let's remmeber that Ukraine was already Russian controlled until US influence and infiltration eventually created 2014 Euromaidan.



Zelensky would get a better deal if Ukies can hold at least one weak, and create a Stalingrad out of Kiev. But seems to Ukies are collapsing castrophically and Putin has no need to negatiate anything other than unconditional surrender,


----------



## Dai Toruko

The Netherlands announced that it will send 200 Stinger MANPADS to Ukraine.


----------



## jamahir

Song Hong said:


> Negotiation between Putin and Zelensky breaks down. Putin call Zelensky a terrorist and Zelensky rally his lackies to fight till death.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/globaltimesnews/posts/5033883130025880



Zelensky should put aside his ego and agree to tell his military to cease fighting and join his country as a Russian ally. Why is he letting his people suffer ? Why is he hoping to still enter NATO ?

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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497490445521362946

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497473894827110405
😂

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497248908459708417

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497485783220961282


----------



## Hack-Hook

Genghis khan1 said:


> View attachment 818731


come on


----------



## frequency

serenity said:


> Nah why declare war on the country that owes us so much money and pays on time every time? No thanks, better to own the USA than to declare war on it. Maybe that's why you hide behind flags. Your kind and your people have achieved nothing and done nothing while making shit up about others. Deep down you know... you know who you are and you don't even want to show your real flag but pose behind a Canadian one. China's weak and has no balls because it doesn't want to go to war with the USA?? ... lmao.
> 
> Korean war lasted for over 2 years... I think everyone can see who is the incompetent one.
> 
> Go back to holding your ears.
> 
> View attachment 818817



LOL, you have no idea what you are talking about. You also have no idea who owns the US government. You have no clue. This Ukraine war is the begining. US created a terrorists group in Ukraine to create conflicts with Russia. Divide and Conquer is the strategy. And USA government is a puppet government working for them. China is not united as you think it is and this is the source of the problem. China is more divided than ever before. Attacking neighboring countries will only make the US stronger, not weaker. Brainwashing people to believe China is great is not going to help China in the long run. It makes people weak and tamed. You will understand when they come for China. Don't worry. I do hope we all can unite and fight together against the New World Order. I'm not against you. I need you to understand this is a bigger problem than you might think.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

she is still in kiev going to areas of fighting

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497495690716631042


----------



## thetutle

serenity said:


> Let's remmeber that Ukraine was already Russian controlled until US influence and infiltration eventually created 2014 Euromaidan


So true, but people want representative democracy and only America offers it. To they will fight for their freedom. And sooner or later they will get it. Even if Russia wins, at some point Ukranians will be free and chose the west over tyranny. 

Who knows maybe the Russian people will one day choose freedom and democracy.

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## kahu

Leviza said:


> The way NATO reacted to this war shows that these top countries are only good to fight the weakest countries like iraq, Afghanistan etc
> 
> Put up a strong one and they only go back to sanctions
> 
> Now as it’s clear to Ukrainians that no help is coming from outside they should join Russia fully
> 
> Why to stand and get a lot of people being getting killed?
> 
> All bluffs are out on no one’s coming
> 
> I don’t know how much it’s damaging to NATO
> Best time when they are any country that we will protect you if you give up XYZ , no one is going to believe them
> 
> Interesting times ahead


You are spot on, Putin has called Biden's bluff and US/NATO show of hand is not a good look for countries counting on US/NATO support for survival/defense.

I hope better sense prevails to end this conflict.

We urgently need neutral international mediation effort. Shocking to see no one is stepping up to engage both sides.

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## serenity

frequency said:


> LOL, you have no idea what you are talking about. You also have no idea who owns the US government. You have no clue. This Ukraine war is the begining. US created a terrorists group in Ukraine to create conflicts with Russia. Divide and Conquer is the strategy. And USA government is a puppet government working for them. China is not united as you think it is and this is the source of the problem. China is more divided than ever before. Attacking neighboring countries will only make the US stronger, not weaker. Brainwashing people to believe China is great is not going to help China in the long run. It makes people weak and tamed. You will understand when they come for China. Don't worry. I do hope we all can unite and fight together against the New World Order. I'm not against you. I need you to understand this is a bigger problem than you might think.



Lol don't worry so much about China then. You seem to call us pussies and weaklings and then tell us we're divided.

I guess you're one of those China experts too huh. You know everything.

Cool story bro. China isn't brainwashing anyone into believing we're great. USA is clearly brainwashing everyone into thinking the opposite. Show me where China is brainwashing us. I'll show you 100 attempts of US and UK brainwashing everyone into believing China is evil and collapsing and blah blah blah blah blah.

So what are you saying then??

please tell me clearly who is this shadow government then? who is they who will come for all? What does the NWO consist of? tell in detail.

Right now you are just grasping at straws with no details and saying wild things. If you are not against us, why tell us lies like we are falling apart. I am Chinese I know better than you. I live there too and travel there all the time.

Why tell us China is a weakling and pussy and should declare war on USA and if it doesn't it's a pussy?

This smells like you are from one of those places that benefit from China and USA going to war. It lets your small *** out into the sun for a second.

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## Wergeland

gambit said:


> What we can and will do is help Ukraine *INDIRECTLY* via the porcupine policy, or a repeat of the Soviet occupied Afghanistan policy.



Well what you describe is not far from what i think would be the ideal situation. You just had to change Ukraine with Baltic, Poland and Romania. 

See thats what i was trying to tell ya. Russia wont accept Ukraine being a NATO territory. So we should instead had fortified existing NATO member lands along the eastern european border. Let Belarus and Ukraine stay as buffer and it may actually give Putin less room to manouver his policies. Because most Russians are not dumb. Putin only echoes what is already roaming in the average Russian mind: the fear of a NATO creeping closer to their border and one day attack weapons like missilies and so on just a few km from Russian border.

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## NotSure

alimobin memon said:


> The residential building in ukraine was actually got hit by s300 missile, which was launched few miles away


Yep and that was obvious by the smoke trail. Another ukr propaganda lie.

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## frequency

serenity said:


> Lol don't worry so much about China then. You seem to call us pussies and weaklings and then tell us we're divided.
> 
> I guess you're one of those China experts too huh. You know everything.
> 
> Cool story bro. China isn't brainwashing anyone into believing we're great. USA is clearly brainwashing everyone into thinking the opposite. Show me where China is brainwashing us. I'll show you 100 attempts of US and UK brainwashing everyone into believing China is evil and collapsing and blah blah blah blah blah.
> 
> So what are you saying then??
> 
> please tell me clearly who is this shadow government then? who is they who will come for all? What does the NWO consist of? tell in detail.
> 
> Right now you are just grasping at straws with no details and saying wild things. If you are not against us, why tell us lies like we are falling apart. I am Chinese I know better than you. I live there too and travel there all the time.
> 
> Why tell us China is a weakling and pussy and should declare war on USA and if it doesn't it's a pussy?
> 
> This smells like you are from one of those places that benefit from China and USA going to war. It lets your small *** out into the sun for a second.



The problem is that you can't see it. Do you know why? you're tooo proud of China and ignoring the failure of China. If you are wise, you will understand what I'm talking about. Like I said, China is divided, not united as you think it is. Neighboring countries are united against you. This only help USA, not you. You're in the middle, stuck and alone. Russia doesn't trust you either. On the surface they play with you, deep down Russia doesn't trust China. You already know that. Not sure why you gotta hide the facts. It doesn't even matter if you hide facts, facts don't change the outcome. Unless China decided to unite with its neighboring countries with no strings attached then maybe China may have a chance.


----------



## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497357644432277505

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## Warking

Khanate said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497232672350818305


WTF Pakistani refugee haha side effects of western media


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497490655769157633
Russia sending poor and young conscripts to Ukraine....


----------



## thetutle

kahu said:


> You are spot on, Putin has called Biden's bluff and US/NATO show of hand is not a good look for countries counting on US/NATO support for survival/defense.
> 
> I hope better sense prevails to end this conflict.
> 
> We urgently need neutral international mediation effort. Shocking to see no one is stepping up to engage both sides.


Actually this is good proof that being in NATO is the only way to save yourself and your country


----------



## Song Hong

Western fake news outlet on steroid again.

In reality the video is about a East Ukrainian father broke down in tears as he said goodbye to his partner and young daughter as they were about to get on a bus headed for Russia while he decided to remain in East Ukraine to fight the Ukraine soldiers. 
















Heartbreaking footage emerges as Ukrainian father says goodbye to his daughter


Powerful images continue to emerge from events on the ground in Ukraine as families and young children are forced to flee.




7news.com.au








__





Video showing a weeping father biding goodbye to departing daughter in east Ukraine, is viral with ‘doctored narrative’ - Global Times







www.globaltimes.cn

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## The Eagle

lastofthepatriots said:


> pictures of blf



In a manner to teach them a lesson and counter their propaganda on social media as well as awareness to the crying Pakistanis.


----------



## casual

frequency said:


> The problem is that you can't see it. Do you know why? you're tooo proud of China and ignoring the failure of China. If you are wise, you will understand what I'm talking about. Like I said, China is divided, not united as you think it is. Neighboring countries are united against you. This only help USA, not you. You're in the middle, stuck and alone. Russia doesn't trust you either. On the surface they play with you, deep down Russia doesn't trust China. You already know that. Not sure why you gotta hide the facts. It doesn't even matter if you hide facts, facts don't change the outcome. Unless China decided to unite with its neighboring countries with no strings attached then maybe China may have a chance.


It's funny that foreigners think they know China more than Chinese people. China is probably the most united countries in the world. Chinese people in general trust the gov and is proud of the CCP having improved standard of living for citizens. Sure there are a handful of crazies that get amplified by western media. As for China's neighbors, they aren't used to China being powerful and assertive. Just a generation ago China was still relatively poor. Give them another generation to get used to it and it'll be fine.

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## QWECXZ

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497490655769157633
> Russia sending poor and young conscripts to Ukraine....


Yeah, because the US coalition that attacked Iraq were all college graduates with engineering and medical degrees, previously working at academia, and they weren't uneducated thugs looking to kill Hajis and leech off tax payers' money for doing genocide against unarmed civilians thousands of miles away.

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## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> Ukraine gave up the nukes because Russia made a *WRITTEN* promise not to attack in the future. You did not know that?


Belarus also gave up nukes because some one made a written promise not to sanction them


----------



## Paul2

Man of steel23 said:


> The Azov battlion fanatics will fight to the last man
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497232469929730070





F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497261094385209356
> 
> Russia does not have the military capability to subdue Ukraine



Lets do the math. Russians use "BTG" as a operational level unit (a lot of micromanagement I guess.) Allegedly, they have 100 of them deployed. 60-70% of Russian standing force is there. Around 40 of their units are on front-line, and the rest stay behind, or guard occupied territory.

80000 troops, and the rest are non-front-line auxiliaries.

As of 3rd day, we can say 6 BTGs were already destroyed/routed/deserted. It will take 20 more days at current pace for Russia being forced to call off the attack.

So far, I haven't seen Russia deploy any serious unit in Ukraine. Mostly, they are sending regular units to Kiyv, and in the South they do seem to have more advanced hardware, and crack troops. I don't know why it's not the other way around.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497499360040529924

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## The Eagle

frequency said:


> You can ask the admin to check the IP addresses. No need to crybaby about clone accounts.



We will check and take action accordingly. No one should doubt any action is ever taken on member's behest.

Regards

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## frequency

casual said:


> It's funny that foreigners think they know China more than Chinese people. China is probably the most united countries in the world. Chinese people in general trust the gov and is proud of the CCP having improved standard of living for citizens. Sure there are a handful of crazies that get amplified by western media. As for China's neighbors, they aren't used to China being powerful and assertive. Just a generation ago China was still relatively poor. Give them another generation to get used to it and it'll be fine.



That's just your brainwashed talk and propaganda talk. You also didn't read what I actually said. You don't need to be Chinese or live in China to see it. China is alone. Simple as that. Pakistan will not help you either. When you do good to people, they will unite with you but when you trying to do bad to others, they will go against you. Using people and exploiting cheap labor is only going to push everyone to join USA long term. Time is not on China's side but time is in the US's side. Unless China really drop its attitudes and unite with the neighboring countries then you may have a chance. Until then, Xi Jinping is on the hit list.


----------



## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> What about the pledge from Russia that Russia will not attack Ukraine? You did not know that?


what about the pledge from USA that it wont sanction Belarus


----------



## Ali_Baba

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 818708
> 
> RPG 22’s being handed out to volunteers this morning. They have Bulgarian Ordinance Factory Markings:
> 
> I’ve included a sample with Bulgarian Markings below for comparison:
> 
> View attachment 818709



Good - Ukraine needs all the help it can get - and we will see this war transition from manovere warfare to an insurgency and weapons like RPG and Manpads are what will make the difference.

Level of weapons delivery will now only go up as people in the west see the crimes the Russians are committing and the initial resistance to weapons supplies starts to dissappear...

Russia will never be able to stop the flow of weapons into Ukraine as Ukraine has a landborder with Nato across multiple points.


----------



## The Eagle

frequency said:


> Pakistan will not help you either.



Let the Pakistan take care of that.



frequency said:


> That's just your brainwashed talk and propaganda talk.



Let's not get personal here.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

frequency said:


> That's just your brainwashed talk and propaganda talk. You also didn't read what I actually said. You don't need to be Chinese or live in China to see it. China is alone. Simple as that. Pakistan will not help you either. When you do good to people, they will unite with you but when you trying to do bad to others, they will go against you. Using people and exploiting cheap labor is only going to push everyone to join USA long term. Time is not on China's side but time is in the US's side. Unless China really drop its attitudes and unite with the neighboring countries then you may have a chance. Until then, Xi Jinping is on the hit list.






Pakistan will always stand united with China. Nothing changes that.


----------



## Dai Toruko

LeGenD said:


> There are reports of heroic sacrifices of Ukranian soldiers in some locations.
> 
> Russian forces were attempting to cross Henichesky Bridge and there was no time to detonate it remotely. Ukranian soldier Vitaly Skakun took this matter into his own hands, blew up the bridge and sacrificed his life in the process.
> 
> Salute to this brave soul.

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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497490655769157633
> Russia sending poor and young conscripts to Ukraine....


I noticed that too. Why? They have way stronger regular units.


----------



## frequency

The Eagle said:


> Let the Pakistan take care of that.





PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Pakistan will always stand united with China. Nothing changes that.



not until China decides to switch sides. What then? you still continue to support that?


----------



## Brainsucker

casual said:


> It's funny that foreigners think they know China more than Chinese people. China is probably the most united countries in the world. Chinese people in general trust the gov and is proud of the CCP having improved standard of living for citizens. Sure there are a handful of crazies that get amplified by western media. As for China's neighbors, they aren't used to China being powerful and assertive. Just a generation ago China was still relatively poor. Give them another generation to get used to it and it'll be fine.



Leave him alone. Debating with a troll will derail this thread for something useless. You can't change his mind with any answer, and he wants only to bait you into a multi page of troll war.


----------



## jamahir

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497490655769157633
> Russia sending poor and young conscripts to Ukraine....



Unlike France which never sent the scum of Earth from its crime-ridden areas to fight in Libya and Syria on behalf of the French government.

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## Wergeland

frequency said:


> That's just your brainwashed talk and propaganda talk. You also didn't read what I actually said. You don't need to be Chinese or live in China to see it. China is alone. Simple as that. Pakistan will not help you either. When you do good to people, they will unite with you but when you trying to do bad to others, they will go against you. Using people and exploiting cheap labor is only going to push everyone to join USA long term. Time is not on China's side but time is in the US's side. Unless China really drop its attitudes and unite with the neighboring countries then you may have a chance. Until then, Xi Jinping is on the hit list.



Signing RCEP, deeper ASEAN FTA, interoperability between China and Pakistan Army.

What you wrote is maybe what you wish.
The ground realities OTOH is quite different.
In fact Neither Japan or India is able to lead Asia the same way as China is able to, and is expected to be able to by the vast majority of Asian nations.

China is a ancient nation and everyone in Asia knows what it stands for.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## mike2000 is back

thetutle said:


> Why didnt UK declare war on Russia when they invaded Poland at the same time as Germany? yeah, so they did have a choice and they chose to attack Germany for no good reason.


We had to be realistic and shrewd about it as well. We knew that we couldn't declare war on Nazis Germany and Russia at the same time since that would have led to an even stronger alliance and ties between Germany and Russia , so it would have brought them together(whether they liked each other or not). So we had to use a policy of divide and Conquer. So we choose Germany since Germany was by far our biggest and most immediate threat and the strongest threat at that. Back then Western powers still saw Russia as a country still lagging behind the West military and qualitatively. However Nazis Germany was another beast altogether. They had both the qualitative and increasingly quantitative edge and if they were let to continue their expansion and growth there is no country that could stop them when they reached a certain point. The war proved that we were right. On a one on one basis, its difficult to see any country that could defeat them decisively.
Moreover, unlike Russia who was a regional threat (limited to Eastern Europe only) Germany was threatening not just our lead in Europe but the world at large, so they were challenging great Britain in Europe, Africa, Asia, even in the Atlantic/Americas etc were fighting was raging between both sides across the globe . So they were by far the biggest threat to our continued world dominance.

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## The Eagle

frequency said:


> not until China decides to switch sides. What then? you still continue to support that?



This is not about China or Pakistan. Pakistan is an independent country and can decide for itself. You can speak for your opinion on the situation and share anything to add to the topic. This subject here is not about Pakistan or China switching side or anything in that regard. Let us all keep our opposition to particular nation out of this thread.

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
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## NotSure

Paul2 said:


> Lets do the math. [...]





Paul2 said:


> As of 3rd day, we can say 6 BTGs were already destroyed/routed/deserted. It will take 20 more days at current pace for Russia being forced to call off the attack.


Yeah, by this math the Ghost from Kiev will have destroyed the whole russian air force in 20 days ...


----------



## Wergeland

Dai Toruko said:


>



Bro thats a suicide bomber.


----------



## Daniel808

Russian liberators caught some Volkstrum in kiev

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497467712964108291
Melitopol Totally Liberated

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497501626591956993

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Russia's Envoy to EU says ''Russia will conduct regime change and increase the territorial boundaries of DPR and LPR and after that they hope the NEW ukrainian government they will instill will have good relations with DPR and LPR governments''

Meaning Russia will create 3 countries out of Ukraine and the Kiev areas will experience regime change

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## Song Hong

Why is Ukraine the West's Fault? Featuring John Mearsheimer

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

frequency said:


> not until China decides to switch sides. What then? you still continue to support that?






Switch sides to support india? So when is that due to happen and where is your evidence for that happening?

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## Daniel808

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497490655769157633
> Russia sending poor and young conscripts to Ukraine....





Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497499360040529924



Looks to be the biggest Russian vehicle loss yet, all support vehicles. Russia may be running into the same problem the US did in Iraq's invasion: by passing cities so fast that support units left behind are vulnerable

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## gambit

Hack-Hook said:


> what about the pledge from USA that it wont sanction Belarus


Does not apply to Ukraine.


----------



## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497499360040529924



Thats a big crater next to them. was this one projective that did all this?

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## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> Does not apply to Ukraine.


on the same paper and the same day and the same place.
and you yourself stated its not binding so what's the fuss about


----------



## thetutle

Ali_Baba said:


> Good - Ukraine needs all the help it can get - and we will see this war transition from manovere warfare to an insurgency and weapons like RPG and Manpads are what will make the difference.
> 
> Level of weapons delivery will now only go up as people in the west see the crimes the Russians are committing and the initial resistance to weapons supplies starts to dissappear...
> 
> Russia will never be able to stop the flow of weapons into Ukraine as Ukraine has a landborder with Nato across multiple points.



Russia will attack any country that openly supplies the future insurgents across the border. then it will get interesting.

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## casual

frequency said:


> That's just your brainwashed talk and propaganda talk. You also didn't read what I actually said. You don't need to be Chinese or live in China to see it. China is alone. Simple as that. Pakistan will not help you either. When you do good to people, they will unite with you but when you trying to do bad to others, they will go against you. Using people and exploiting cheap labor is only going to push everyone to join USA long term. Time is not on China's side but time is in the US's side. Unless China really drop its attitudes and unite with the neighboring countries then you may have a chance. Until then, Xi Jinping is on the hit list.


And there you have it. Anyone who presents an opposing view to your own will be labeled as "brainwashed and propaganda talk". But believe whatever you want, I don't care.

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## RescueRanger

frequency said:


> What's the point of having a forum if you can't share ideas and thoughts freely?


Its about sticking to the topic, if you wish to discuss China, Pakistan and the Ukraine situation, create a new thread and discuss it there to your hearts content. This threat is focusing on developments between Russia and Ukraine and specifically the war.

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## Ali_Baba

Basel said:


> If NATO was serious about security of Ukraine then they had plenty of time since 2014 to prepare Ukrainian military to be able to defend their country, no proper training and equipment was provided, no aircrafts for air force were provided, US could have easily provided 100 used F-16 block-40/50 with AIM-120 C-5 & AIM-9x but they never did that which means they just used Ukraine.



Ukraine did not think to prepare - they were naive... even until a few days ago the Ukrainian president was saying "attack - what attack(proves how out of his depth he was and is...but that is a different story)". They ingnored all the signals ... If they asked - they would have been provided. 

This will be a long war - it will not end with the fall of the capital of Ukraine ...

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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497508526884859906


----------



## serenity

frequency said:


> That's just your brainwashed talk and propaganda talk. You also didn't read what I actually said. You don't need to be Chinese or live in China to see it. China is alone. Simple as that. Pakistan will not help you either. When you do good to people, they will unite with you but when you trying to do bad to others, they will go against you. Using people and exploiting cheap labor is only going to push everyone to join USA long term. Time is not on China's side but time is in the US's side. Unless China really drop its attitudes and unite with the neighboring countries then you may have a chance. Until then, Xi Jinping is on the hit list.



So basically should do as the US says and should follow foreign commands. Behave in its own interest and work for itself is considered evil and bad.

Cool now we know I guess we'll try to get out of the way when they come for Xi. If they don't then I guess Xi has the blessing of Heaven above.


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

frequency said:


> What's the point of having a forum if you can't share ideas and thoughts freely? You starting to sound like western media with their censorships. All I see is that you're all with the same mentality. If the narratives or ideas don't match yours, you silent people. I could careless to be part of a forum if people choose to be ignorant about it. I don't need associate myself to those people as there's no value to me. Of course, there are far better platforms out there for me to speak my mind and have people with open minds to hear about it. You're creating division, not unification here.
> 
> Everything in this world is one. There's always cause and effect. Russia vs Ukraine creates a ripple across the world. It will impact every nations as you already know. I don't need to say more. I simply wants you all to understand that there is a bigger problem than you might think you know. US government just a puppet government for someone else. They have more wealth than top 5 countries of the world. Like it or not, Xi Jinping is next on the hit list. So continue with your rhetoric and divide. LOL, all that is doing is helping the US.








You can always go back to your indian/sanghi forums. They are very fair, free and open...........

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## The Eagle

frequency said:


> All I see is that you're all with the same mentality.



If you are politely informed and reminded to do the right thing; it doesn't mean to take that for granted. Don't make me to ban you for a good period of time due to your behaviour and posting manners.

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## dBSPL

Oo

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497503363885408256


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## serenity

thetutle said:


> Russia will attack any country that openly supplies the future insurgents across the border. then it will get interesting.



I think so too. Unless that country is the USA or powerful European one. Attacking supply routes is possible but here we're talking about small arms and maybe manpads and atgms. That's possible to smuggle without being obvious and too easily attacked by Russian military. It would be declaration of war on neigbors who provide supply line but if they can prove it, it's possible this may happen.

This along with Sweden and Finland joining NATO could incite whole European theater war.


----------



## frequency

RescueRanger said:


> Its about sticking to the topic, if you wish to discuss China, Pakistan and the Ukraine situation, create a new thread and discuss it there to your hearts content. This threat is focusing on developments between Russia and Ukraine and specifically the war.



Like I said, being on topic doesn't capture a full picture of what's going on in the Ukraine and Russia. What started the war is important to understand. Who, what, when, where, how. What's going on in the Ukraine is the results, lots of bloodshed, twitters has everything. So I'm going to go there and look for updates.


----------



## vizier

There are unconfirmed news that Russia requested support from Kazakhstan and Armenia. This cant be done within CSTO framework but individual countries approval only. There is CSTO but just like Nato this organisation has laws that only if a country is attacked others will join for support. Just like Russia didnt intervene in Armenia Azerbaijan conflict Kazakhstan and others have the right to stay away according to CSTO.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497506205350178817100,000 civilians entered Poland from Ukraine

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## thetutle

mike2000 is back said:


> We had to be realistic and shrewd about it as well. We know that we couldn't declare war on Nazis Germany and Russia at the same time since that would have led to an even stronger alliance and tied between Germany and Russia so it would have brought them together(whether they liked each other or not). So we had to use a policy of divide and Conquer. So we choose Germany since Germany was by far our biggest and most immediate threat and the strongest threat at that. Back then Western powers still saw Russia as a country still lagging behind the West military and qualitatively. However Nazis Germany was another beast altogether. They had both the qualitative and increasingly quantitative edge and if they were let to continue their expansion and growth there is no country that could stop them when they reached a certain point. The war proved that we were right. On a one on one basis, its difficult to see any country that could defeat them decisively.



It looks to me as though we would have had a Cold War either way. If the west sided with NAZI Germany and defeated the Soviets first, there would have been a Cold War vs Germany once they got nukes. Hitler would have died in the 70's or 80's and Germany would go back to somewhat normal. Only difference is we might have had a German dominated EU sooner. 

But Churchill (the most flawed and insane UK leader ever) chose his path of war and destruction and ultimately destroyed not only Europe but the British empire as well.

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## The Eagle

frequency said:


> I don't need associate myself to those people as there's no value to me.



498 messages in 7+ years with three negative ratings on your shoulder and yet you are insulting others. My friend, only if you could introspect; things would have been different for you as well. Time to check at your end.

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## dBSPL

vizier said:


> There are unconfirmed news that Russia requested support from Kazakhstan and Armenia. This cant be done within CSTO framework but individual countries approval only. There is CSTO but just like Nato this organisation has laws that only if a country is attacked others will join for support. Just like Russia didnt intervene in Armenia Azerbaijan conflict Kazakhstan and others have the right to stay away according to CSTO.


Kazakhstan rejected to send troops for Russian invasion.

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## TOYGAN

Khanate said:


> View attachment 818797




Maybe not for non-NATO member Ukraine but not for a NATO Member

Russia is nothing . we have seen this reality when TRUMP's American Forces killed over 300 Russians in Syria within minutes ( Putin said USA is only super power in the world when TRUMP ruled USA )

OBAMA allowed Putin to enter Syria
BIDEN allowed Putin to enter Ukraine

Putin never dare to attack on Ukraine , if TRUMP rule USA now
Russian military power can not match with even USAF ... B52s , B1s . B2s with nukes would be fly over the Black Sea now

and American F15s, F22s ,F35s from Poland,Romania,Bulgaria would be create no fly zone over Ukraine

even I am not talking about other NATO Forces with 1.000+ Fighter Jets and 120 Warships which are ready in the Baltics , Black Sea and in the Mediterranean Sea


so-called Economic sanctions can not stop Russia , incompetent OBAMA and BIDEN


----------



## Ali_Baba

khansaheeb said:


> Yes, we might see a repeat of Ukraine with Finland and Norway.



Norway is part of NATO - so no - Russia cannot do that to Norway.

NATO can handle Russia quite easily - it is just ** NOT ALLOWED ** to handle Russia because its treaty framework and governance wont allow it for now until is activated.

Do not confuse lack of NATO action as being "fear" or lack of capability - it is not fear. It just has no treaty obligation to get involved.

The Swedes and Finnish will make their decisions on their future soon - this will crystalise their throughts one way or the other for sure - but if they decide to join NATO - then dont be suprised if they also decide to adopt bilateral security guarantees FIRST with the UK/USA first to provide a protective cover to then move into NATO membership.



Daniel808 said:


> So Russians already liberated Mikolayev and Now on Odessa?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497420735060475908
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497420004332953604



Not liberated - but Occupied..

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## dBSPL

BREAKING — Italy is ready to support the disconnection of Russia from SWIFT and is ready to provide military assistance — Zelensky

Swift shutdown coming...

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## Paul2

thetutle said:


> Thats a big crater next to them. was this one projective that did all this?



Some kind of MLRS, possibly something bigger than Grad, or massive airstrike, but that is doubtful given Ukraine's having so few bombers/strike planes or attack helos.

They were all blown up at the same time. If it was artillery, at least some vehicles would've tried to run away when being shelled.

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## Foinikas

Western propaganda has started again. 

I've also heard that the 13 men on the island aren't really dead,but had surrendered and are being held in a Russian ship. I don't know if it's true though.

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## thetutle

serenity said:


> I think so too. Unless that country is the USA or powerful European one. Attacking supply routes is possible but here we're talking about small arms and maybe manpads and atgms. That's possible to smuggle without being obvious and too easily attacked by Russian military. It would be declaration of war on neigbors who provide supply line but if they can prove it, it's possible this may happen.
> 
> This along with Sweden and Finland joining NATO could incite whole European theater war.



Oh yes, if Romania or Poland or Slovakia, the border states, are caught supplying weapons to future insurgents in Russian controlled territory, they re getting bombed. 

And this will result in retaliation by NATO. It will not end well for anyone.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497325120582471684

Reactions: Haha Haha:
10 | Angry Angry:
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## casual

frequency said:


> -----


wow someone's triggered haha

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## dBSPL

So true

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497228210928599063@Foinikas Germany was making so much trouble not to take the refugees in Greece. I hope you see the double standard here.


----------



## Paul2

thetutle said:


> Oh yes, if Romania or Poland or Slovakia, the border states, are caught supplying weapons to future insurgents in Russian controlled territory, they re getting bombed.
> 
> And this will result in retaliation by NATO. It will not end well for anyone.



1939 anyone?


----------



## christinac

T-SaGe said:


> Tensions are rising in the east of Europe. It seems that both the Russian forces and Ukrainian forces are mobilized. After the end of the ceasefire, many clashes were recorded in the Donbas region, where separatist Russian militias were located. Due to growing concerns, NATO forces directed many of its platforms to the region.
> 
> The NATO bloc aircrafts constantly patrolling the black sea to support Ukraine and to detect early a possible Russian operation in the direction of Odesa.
> 
> There are largely visible military activities from Romania to Poland. Meanwhile, Russia has raised its military buildup on the Ukrainian border to its highest level since 2014.
> 
> A great storm is approaching, and the worst-case scenario poses such great risks that it can turn into a tragedy for the whole world.
> 
> My wish from the Moderation please make sticky this thread and control it several times a week for a possible troll and spam activities. Let's discuss together the tensest event of 2021 while keeping the thread as clean as possible and not turning it into another troll fest. TY @waz @krash
> 
> Current political map of Territory


There is an increasing chaos about the political decisions, the developed nations must understand the importance of this region and they must act to bring peace amongst the nations. This tension around the globe can highly affect the student life activities as well. Many students are studying across the borders from different nations, they feel unsecured. Bloggers of gethealtharticles has already highlighted such issues in their blog articles and they claim that these war heads can bring too much air pollution. To write a quality article about pollution you can use wordcountjet, a perfect tool for beginners.


----------



## thetutle

TOYGAN said:


> Maybe not for non-NATO member Ukraine but not for a NATO Member
> 
> Russia is nothing . we have seen this reality when TRUMP's American Forces killed over 300 Russians in Syria within minutes ( Putin said USA is only super power in the world when TRUMP ruled USA )
> 
> OBAMA allowed Putin to enter Syria
> BIDEN allowed Putin to enter Ukraine
> 
> Putin never dare to attack on Ukraine , if TRUMP rule USA now
> Russian military power can not match with even USAF ... B52s , B1s . B2s with nukes would be fly over the Black Sea now
> 
> and American F15s, F22s ,F35s from Poland,Romania,Bulgaria would be create no fly zone over Ukraine
> 
> even I am not talking about other NATO Forces with 1.000+ Fighter Jets and 120 Warships which are ready in the Baltics , Black Sea and in the Mediterranean Sea
> 
> 
> so-called Economic sanctions can not stop Russia , incompetent OBAMA and BIDEN



I think trump would not support Ukraine at all or other NATO members. 

But there is no doubt about NATO's strength. We saw what happened when Russian jet entered Turkish airspace for 15 seconds. it was in flames. And thats only Turkey. Imagine US getting involved.

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## dBSPL

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497325120582471684


lol. How did the subject come to Saudi Arabia here?

The political mind in both Russia and the USA is completely bankrupt.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Foinikas said:


> Western propaganda has started again.
> 
> I've also heard that the 13 men on the island aren't really dead,but had surrendered and are being held in a Russian ship. I don't know if it's true though.
> 
> View attachment 818825
> View attachment 818826



See now I'm not sure that such a person even exists. Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus.

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## Beast

frequency said:


> ------


Enjoy your ban vacation. China and Pakistan strong

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> The US has now confirmed that two Russian Il-76 was shot down by Ukraine.



Good - shows that Ukraine still has control overs it C&C networks and can direct anti-air operations to " a small extent". 

Fairly certain intelligence for this operation was provided by the west.

The west should sweep up all of the BUK Sam systems that some former soviet era countries who are now part of nato - and send them to ukraine. Training time will be low and they can use them quickly.

Given how many NATO EW sniffers are operating around Ukraine right now - you can assume that all of Russia encryption technology would have been exposed now in their operational use and keys hacked by NATO and they are listening to everything going on in detail.

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## lastofthepatriots

frequency said:


> --------



Baby rage somewhere else

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## pkuser2k12



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## thetutle

Paul2 said:


> Some kind of MLRS, possibly something bigger than Grad, or massive airstrike, but that is doubtful given Ukraine's having so few bombers/strike planes or attack helos.
> 
> They were all blown up at the same time. If it was artillery, at least some vehicles would've tried to run away when being shelled.



How does a country with no working airforce bomb all these vehicles at the same time even with a MRLS? those are not guided missiles.


----------



## Paul2

dBSPL said:


> The political mind in both Russia and the USA is completely bankrupt.



The era of dotards is coming to an end on both sides of the Atlantic I feel

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## Ali_Baba

Daniel808 said:


> Looks like Ukraine good at making claim
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497422259585171460



The shoot down of the 2 IL-76's has been confirmed by NATO/Americans.


----------



## RescueRanger

frequency said:


> -------


Low IQ Troll detected. You bring shame upon your people.

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## Foinikas

I got these from a Spanish site.

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## The Eagle

frequency said:


> I'll DDOS



This is all you worth and how capable you are.

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## RescueRanger

Muhammed45 said:


> What a retarded idiot. Sod off American worm


He’s not American.

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## Paul2

thetutle said:


> How does a country with no working airforce bomb all these vehicles at the same time even with a MRLS? those are not guided missiles.



300mm MLRS from ex-USSR countries have some guidance, not to mention having cluster warheads

It would've taken just 2-3 missiles to take out a convoy if they had some advanced munitions


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## The Eagle

frequency said:


> -------------------------.


I always hope and advise many parents, even though I am younger to them, that please take care of up-bringing & teach your kids the best of the manners. Whether you or your another ID, Pakistan Defence will always love to play ping pong with it. Blame yourself for being unable to say anything while seeing yourself being exposed like that. It just took few posts to expose your real face, your actual intention and your real pain. Take some pills to help you relief.

Regards,

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## TheNoob

Foinikas said:


> I got these from a Spanish site.
> View attachment 818831
> View attachment 818832
> View attachment 818833
> View attachment 818835
> View attachment 818838
> View attachment 818840
> View attachment 818841
> View attachment 818842
> View attachment 818843
> View attachment 818844
> View attachment 818845
> View attachment 818846



I saw most of them circulate once more and kept questioning the general intelligence of the sheep that follow media these days. lol 
Heck some of em were also used during the Armenia vs Azeri conflict as well.

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## RescueRanger

The Eagle said:


> This is all you worth and how capable you are.


Footage of Frequency about to hack the planet from his command centre:

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## Muhammed45

RescueRanger said:


> He’s not American.


That's true sir, but this sentence that USA owns internet makes me consider the worm an American one or at least a US worshiping worm.


----------



## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497519224637566977

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Angry Angry:
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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497513683559329792

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## lastofthepatriots

https://imgur.com/a/T20qIbr

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## Daniel808

Another Major gain from Donbass Front


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497518263722512391

Ukraine in general retreat along Donbass frontline

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497512864986419201

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## TOYGAN

thetutle said:


> I think trump would not support Ukraine at all or other NATO members.
> 
> But there is no doubt about NATO's strength. We saw what happened when Russian jet entered Turkish airspace for 15 seconds. it was in flames. And thats only Turkey. Imagine US getting involved.



TRUMP never allow Putin to insult USA and NATO . Russia is not military power to match with USA and Putin can not start a nuclear war

OBAMA and BIDEN allowed Putin to invade Ukraine in 2014 and 2022

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## The Eagle

RescueRanger said:


> Footage of Frequency about to hack the planet from his command centre:



Yeah, the quality of hacker behind the scene

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## Muhammed45

Ukrainian Howitzers stationed at a kindergarten. Recorded by a Ukrainian citizen. 









فیلم/ استقرار توپخانه‌ای ارتش اوکراین در مهدکودک


مواضع توپخانه‌ای ارتش اوکراین در سورودونتسک که در محوطه یک دبیرستان و مهدکودک مستقر شده اند. این توپ ها جهت حمله به نیروهای جمهوری لوهانسک در سورودونتسک مستقر هستند.




www.mashreghnews.ir










@Foinikas 

This is the headline of western posters and the pro west ones.

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## dBSPL

*Zelensky: "Whoever wants to help us defend Ukraine can come to our country. We will give them weapons."*

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## lastofthepatriots

https://imgur.com/a/iz2JoeQ


Ruskis seem to be fielding bare bones tanks. I don’t think the situation is even this bad for the Bonglodeshis.


----------



## Daniel808

Seems Zelensky running away to Lviv


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497520444907438081

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## Daniel808

Ukraine 😓


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497512985404792833

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## Paul2

lastofthepatriots said:


> https://imgur.com/a/iz2JoeQ
> 
> 
> Ruskis seem to be fielding bare bones tanks. I don’t think the situation is even this bad for the Bonglodeshis.



I noticed this. They are throwing dump weapons on them, and no major units so far? Are they saving them for later?

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## Daniel808

Somewhere in Kiev

This cat had been defected to Russian side 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497517603207667714

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## dBSPL

lastofthepatriots said:


> https://imgur.com/a/T20qIbr


The emotional bond between the Ukrainian and Russian people is broken. Putin has accomplished something that hasn't happened before. As a Russian soldier right now, it would be a very bad fate to fall into the hands of the Ukrainian militia.


----------



## TOYGAN

Molotov cocktail's vs Russian forces in Kiev​






Ukranian People need urban warfare tactics to destroy all Russian military hardware and to kill all Russian solldiers who entered Ukranian cities

Ukraine has enough population to organize millions of fighters in the cities to defend their country from invaders

needs more MANPADS , ATGMs , Snipers ,Rifles etc ..... Russia can bomb Ukraine but never control Ukraine if milions of Ukranian People all together fight against invaders

Turkish People would do it if Russian forces enter Turkey

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## Paul2

RescueRanger said:


> ATGM are still in their racks inside, there were reports earlier on TRT that some vehicles have been simply abandoned because of engine troubles. This could be one such vehicle, also reports that Russian soldiers are removing their clothes and dressing up as civilians to try and blend in.
> 
> Whatever happens, this is now going to become a long and protracted mess.



I noticed that too, I seen videos of dozen abandoned pieces of armour, or whole abandoned convoys. What is this? I can't get it.

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## mike2000 is back

thetutle said:


> It looks to me as though we would have had a Cold War either way. If the west sided with NAZI Germany and defeated the Soviets first, there would have been a Cold War vs Germany once they got nukes. Hitler would have died in the 70's or 80's and Germany would go back to somewhat normal. Only difference is we might have had a German dominated EU sooner.
> 
> But Churchill (the most flawed and insane UK leader ever) chose his path of war and destruction and ultimately destroyed not only Europe but the British empire as well.


Not really. Disagree, even if Britain and allied with Germany to defeat Russia, then that would only have created an even bigger nd stronger Germany and a larger threat for Britain, in fact it would have led to an even bigger and more devastating war and led to an even faster collapse of our empire instead of a controlled and more measured one. 
Hitler's aim was to control the whole of Europe and then the world , helping him defeat Russia would have only led to an even bigger blunder on our part. Since his full attention then would have been to face us completely without through need to worry about his Eastern flank. 
Moreover I don't see the blunder Churchill made in this, if anything Churchill came to power due to chamberlain's naivety and trying to appease Hitler by all means, since he wanted to avoid another devastating world war in Europe and the world, however his constant appeasement of Hitler proved to be a huge failure and only emboldened Germany since Hitler knew Britain wanted to avoid war at all cost. So it only made things worse. Which we latter realised and hence the need for a war veteran and leader to lead the war on our front, hence the emergence of Churchill and fall of chamberlain.

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## lastofthepatriots

dBSPL said:


> The emotional bond between the Ukrainian and Russian people is broken. Putin has accomplished something that hasn't happened before. As a Russian soldier right now, it would be a very bad fate to fall into the hands of the Ukrainian militia.



There is very little to be sympathetic about towards an occupying force. Can’t say I blame them.

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## dBSPL

Minister of Defence of Ukraine

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497521925366583296
lol, dude don't get us involved in this

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497452895087833091

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## Wergeland

The Eagle said:


> Yeah, the quality of hacker behind the scene
> View attachment 818850

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## Paul2

mike2000 is back said:


> Not really. Disagree, even if Britain and allied with Germany to defeat Russia, then that would only have created an even bigger nd stronger Germany and a larger threat for Britain, in fact it would have led to an even bigger and more devastating war and led to an even faster collapse of our empire instead of a controlled and more measured one.
> Hitler's aim was to control the whole of Europe and then the world , helping him defeat Russia would have only led to an even bigger blunder on our part. Since his full attention then would have been to face us completely without through need to worry about his Eastern flank.
> Moreover I don't see the blunder Churchill made in this, if anything Churchill came to power due to chamberlain's naivety and trying to appease Hitler by all means, since he wanted to avoid another devastating world war in Europe and the world, however his constant appeasement of Hitler proved to be a huge failure and only emboldened Germany since Hitler knew Britain wanted to avoid war at all cost. So it only made things worse. Which we latter realised and hence the need for a war veteran and leader to lead the war on our front, hence the emergence of Churchill and fall of chamberlain.



The empire had a chance to crush Germany like a bug again in thirties, but it didn't (Chamberlain, etc)


----------



## Inception-06

Paul2 said:


> I noticed that too, I seen videos of dozen abandoned pieces of armour, or whole abandoned convoys. What is this? I can't get it.



Lack of supplies, no convoy protection training, discipline and Orders. Loose of contact with frontline and Commanding troops. Trapped by civilian resistance with help of NATO ESINT. It’s seems difficult for Russians troops to enter and hold civilian populated areas, especially when they under fire, they seem to not have cleared to fire on everything or retreat, must be very difficult to differentiate between combatants and non combatants.


----------



## Wergeland

dBSPL said:


> Hey, this guy just emailed me last time.
> 
> He said that he wanted to donate his wealth to charities, but his health was not sufficient, he could not trust his relatives, and he needed the help of someone who could distribute this wealth to charities. I think he seemed like a very reliable person.



Such a nice guy. 
But how the hell did he get your email bro..?

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## Paul2

RescueRanger said:


> NLAWs are state of the art equipment worth 20,000 GBP a pop, they are reserved for the professional fighters of the Ukrainian military, the conscripts and volunteers will use good old petrol bombs!



I seen videos of militias with NLAWs. NLAW doesn't need much training. It's one man weapon unlike Japelin or other ATGMs.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497524780165173248The sabotage and reconnaissance groups of the Russian army, wearing the uniform of the Ukrainian guards, want to enter the city quietly. But people who notice this force them to speak Ukrainian. Or they are trying to greet them as Slava Ukraine. This is how they try to detect it.

According to the Geneva convention, it is a war crime to fight in the uniform of the enemy.

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## Ali_Baba

thetutle said:


> Russia will attack any country that openly supplies the future insurgents across the border. then it will get interesting.



When the Soviets(Russians) invaded Afghanistan - and Pakistan supported the resistence - how much did the Soviets attempt to attack Pakistan ? Minor aerial incurisions - they never directly challenged Pakistan and Pakistan didnot have the protection of NATO or nuclear weapons at that time.

So - the question is - are the Russian prepared to directly challenge a NATO country - i suspect the answer will be - no. Time will tell .

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## RescueRanger

*Shelling reported in Poltava, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson. Maritopol and Zaporizhzhia are disputed control areas with active fighting being reported. *

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## Beidou2020

If NATO attacks Russia, China absolutely must join the fight and help Russia. This is of critical importance. It will no longer be about Ukraine sovereignty, it will a global war. China can’t just watch from the sideline and see Russia weakened.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497435602857304065

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## lastofthepatriots

https://imgur.com/a/sHjUZxw


They ask do you have momma and papa. He say yes. They say do you have anything to say to them. He say we didn’t want to fight, but they sent us.



https://imgur.com/a/XR3jBlN


They ask do you have momma and papa. He say yes. They say do you have anything to say to them. He say I love you to parents. They ask are you ready to fight against ruski with us? He say yes.

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## Foinikas

Muhammed45 said:


> Ukrainian Howitzers stationed at a kindergarten. Recorded by a Ukrainian citizen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> فیلم/ استقرار توپخانه‌ای ارتش اوکراین در مهدکودک
> 
> 
> مواضع توپخانه‌ای ارتش اوکراین در سورودونتسک که در محوطه یک دبیرستان و مهدکودک مستقر شده اند. این توپ ها جهت حمله به نیروهای جمهوری لوهانسک در سورودونتسک مستقر هستند.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mashreghnews.ir
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 818849
> 
> 
> @Foinikas
> 
> This is the headline of western posters and the pro west ones.
> 
> View attachment 818852


Thanx for showing that to me,bro!

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## RescueRanger

Paul2 said:


> I seen videos of militias with NLAWs. NLAW doesn't need much training. It's one man weapon unlike Japelin or other ATGMs.


NLAWs like all exotic equipment are not available for volunteer fighters, only the military or their foreign "advisors".

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## Foinikas

TheNoob said:


> Heck some of em were also used during the Armenia vs Azeri conflict as well.


And by Indians...that Phalanx video from ARMA 3


----------



## The Eagle

Wergeland said:


> Such a nice guy.
> But how the hell did he get your email bro..?



A princess has been sending emails to me that her family wealth, the gold & all jewels etc are in a bank locker with a condition by her royal parents to release only if she marries a prince. Since I have been so busy with my kingdom issues and after all, there were a lot of threats including disturbing news coming from Narnia so I had to march; I couldn't help her till date. She seems to be really nice princess but I couldn't help her.

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## Paul2

Faqirze said:


> Kiev will fall soon, is Russia planning to do a full blown occupation of Ukraine? What are they trying to gain from this?




I think I got the plan. Forces attacking Kiev from North are remarkably weak, but there are a lot of them. Most heavy fighting with modern hardware happens in the south, and east.

Pressure on Kiev from Belarus is a distraction from the landgrab in the south.

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## reflecthofgeismar

mike2000 is back said:


> Not really. Disagree, even if Britain and allied with Germany to defeat Russia, then that would only have created an even bigger nd stronger Germany and a larger threat for Britain, in fact it would have led to an even bigger and more devastating war and led to an even faster collapse of our empire instead of a controlled and more measured one.
> Hitler's aim was to control the whole of Europe and then the world , helping him defeat Russia would have only led to an even bigger blunder on our part. Since his full attention then would have been to face us completely without through need to worry about his Eastern flank.
> Moreover I don't see the blunder Churchill made in this, if anything Churchill came to power due to chamberlain's naivety and trying to appease Hitler by all means, since he wanted to avoid another devastating world war in Europe and the world, however his constant appeasement of Hitler proved to be a huge failure and only emboldened Germany since Hitler knew Britain wanted to avoid war at all cost. So it only made things worse. Which we latter realised and hence the need for a war veteran and leader to lead the war on our front, hence the emergence of Churchill and fall of chamberlain.


Hitler was a GB lover.
He even liked France and Greece very much.
But even without Holocaust intention and all the stuff, I wouldn't have liked that strong Germany.
Germany should be a mix of Switzerland, Singapur and Israel.
Do trade with all and have no larger ambitions, except own wealth, tradition, strong(est) land force and peace in buffer states.
A German Kaiserreich, without the intention to have a too strong navy, would be ok.

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## thetutle

mike2000 is back said:


> Not really. Disagree, even if Britain and allied with Germany to defeat Russia, then that would only have created an even bigger nd stronger Germany and a larger threat for Britain, in fact it would have led to an even bigger and more devastating war and led to an even faster collapse of our empire instead of a controlled and more measured one.
> Hitler's aim was to control the whole of Europe and then the world , helping him defeat Russia would have only led to an even bigger blunder on our part. Since his full attention then would have been to face us completely without through need to worry about his Eastern flank.
> Moreover I don't see the blunder Churchill made in this, if anything Churchill came to power due to chamberlain's naivety and trying to appease Hitler by all means, since he wanted to avoid another devastating world war in Europe and the world, however his constant appeasement of Hitler proved to be a huge failure and only emboldened Germany since Hitler knew Britain wanted to avoid war at all cost. So it only made things worse. Which we latter realised and hence the need for a war veteran and leader to lead the war on our front, hence the emergence of Churchill and fall of chamberlain.



I am of the view that Chamberlain would have been better for everyone probably. I don'd think Germany wanted to control the world. They didnt even want to control all of Europe. Vichy France, Spain, Romania, Sweden, Switzerland, there were many places he didnt plan to occupy. 

And a Cold War vs Germany would have been easier than against USSR. Less ideological differences. And easier, as NAZI ideology is just not exportable to the world at large for obvious reasons. whereas, communism is. 

A controlled and measured collapse of empire. lol, nicely put.


----------



## Paul2

Beidou2020 said:


> If NATO attacks Russia, China absolutely must join the fight and help Russia. This is of critical importance. It will no longer be about Ukraine sovereignty, it will a global war. China can’t just watch from the sideline and see Russia weakened.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497435602857304065



It's a choice. Russian troops on our norther border, or NATO troops on our northern border, and taking back the outer northeast.


----------



## RescueRanger

Video shows Indian Medical students trapped in the basement of the University with no way to leave Zaporizhzhia. The city has seen heavy fighting overnight:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497501846914887691

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497528140305993728

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## thetutle

reflecthofgeismar said:


> Germany should be a mix of Switzerland, Singapur and Israel.
> Do trade with all and have no larger ambitions, except own wealth, tradition, strong(est) land force and peace in buffer states.



The problem is at the time, and even until recently. you cant do "trade with all." They simply wont let you. You can only trade on favourable terms to your colonies or neo colonies. Thats why Germany and France have their new empire. So they can do free trade with them. 

Try selling that BMW to India.


----------



## mike2000 is back

Paul2 said:


> The empire had a chance to crush Germany like a bug again in thirties, but it didn't (Chamberlain, etc)


Yeah at the beginning of Germany rearmement by Hitler, we had the chance to stop him and halt Germanys rise towards that militarism, however as I said our leadership back then were still recovering from the traumas of WWI , and so the last think we wanted was another useless war in Europe and the world which will weaken our empire even more. So Chamberlain kept ceedign ground to Hitler to appease him, believing after not interfering in Germanys capturing of small territories frommits neighbours that Hitler will stop there and not keep expanding . However, we all know that was wishful thinking . 
You have to know that our policy was to look outward and solidfy our hold on our foreign territories and colonies and the would at large, we actually didn't get involved much in European affairs/politicking. Hitlers intransigence gave us no choice then to be involved politically and militarily in Europe much more than we would have loved to.


----------



## Stealth

Ali_Baba said:


> When the Soviets(Russians) invaded Afghanistan - and Pakistan supported the resistence - how much did the Soviets attempt to attack Pakistan ? Minor aerial incurisions - they never directly challenged Pakistan and Pakistan didnot have the protection of NATO or nuclear weapons at that time.
> 
> So - the question is - are the Russian prepared to directly challenge a NATO country - i suspect the answer will be - no. Time will tell .


Putin is no Gorbachev

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## dBSPL

General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine:

The targets south of Gostomel Airport and the #Russian convoy advancing in Kherson were neutralized by BayraktarTB2.

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## jamahir

Muhammed45 said:


> Ukrainian Howitzers stationed at a kindergarten. Recorded by a Ukrainian citizen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> فیلم/ استقرار توپخانه‌ای ارتش اوکراین در مهدکودک
> 
> 
> مواضع توپخانه‌ای ارتش اوکراین در سورودونتسک که در محوطه یک دبیرستان و مهدکودک مستقر شده اند. این توپ ها جهت حمله به نیروهای جمهوری لوهانسک در سورودونتسک مستقر هستند.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mashreghnews.ir
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 818849
> 
> 
> @Foinikas
> 
> This is the headline of western posters and the pro west ones.
> 
> View attachment 818852



@lastofthepatriots, now don't blame the Russians for hitting this location.

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## lastofthepatriots

https://imgur.com/a/xRts0EO

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## dBSPL

The Russians brought the Pantsir-S.

Lovers meet again. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497533782190182400


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## gambit

Wergeland said:


> Well what you describe is not far from what i think would be the ideal situation. You just had to change Ukraine with Baltic, Poland and Romania.
> 
> See thats what i was trying to tell ya. *Russia wont accept Ukraine being a NATO territory.* So we should instead had fortified existing NATO member lands along the eastern european border. Let Belarus and Ukraine stay as buffer and it may actually give Putin less room to manouver his policies. Because most Russians are not dumb. *Putin only echoes what is already roaming in the average Russian mind: the fear of a NATO creeping closer to their border and one day attack weapons like missilies and so on just a few km from Russian border.*


So the danger here is that we should be content with letting larger and more powerful countries dictate the independence of smaller and weaker countries.

Hold on...!!! Am not criticizing your argument but stating geopolitical realities. For ease of discussion, am going to conflate government and its people into a single entity -- for now.

Americans at large cannot identify with the fear of living with a hostile neighbor. For the entirety of the US existence, the absence of that fear is politically inherited from the previous generation, and from the previous generation, and regressively back to the country's founding. Political scientists have argued that absence is critical component of why Americans tends to be an optimistic and even overly idealistic people. As a naturalized US citizen, I have experienced both worlds, one where the people is constantly fearful of a neighbor and one where the people is essentially naive. Am generalizing here.

What you are asking for America to accept -- geopolitical buffer states -- is anathema to the American ethos, and here is the kicker, immigrants who came to America and established new lives, they cannot impart what they feared to their children. No way how. They left for America so that their children would not have to live like they have. The fear of an ever hostile neighbor can only be learned thru experience, never thru academia. It is like asking Mongolians to build a navy while disregarding the fact that Mongolia is landlocked. Even a riverine boatman have a better foundation for the seas than Americans can guess what it is like living next to an ideological opposite. And no one can ask Americans to imagine Canadians and Mexicans as angry giants eager to subjugate them.

But the American problem of geopolitical naivete is separate from what *YOU* and your fellow Euros must deal with, namely, how do you Euros are certain that Russia will be content with just a few buffer states? Does CONEUR history supports your contention that Russia will be so satisfied? You cannot dismiss history because all tyrants with expansionist dreams looked to history to support whatever might be their claims. That Ukraine resists should be seen as a challenge to history. Given technological progress, how far away is your Norway from Russia's expansionist threat? Not very, according to the map. If NATO is a shield, does it mean it is the only one? Or should it be the only one? Strengthening NATO is good, but several countries, including major France, have contemplated leaving NATO. What if NATO disband due to lack of interests? The US will be safe from Russian's aggression, but not your Norway.

In this little corner of the internet, you are willing to sacrifice Ukraine to Russia. So do many others. But their countries are far from Russia. Yours is not.

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## reflecthofgeismar

lastofthepatriots said:


> https://imgur.com/a/xRts0EO


Looks like a Belarusian Cayman 4x4.

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## nufix

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497325120582471684



Demand, demand, demand. Perhaps the US should start using their oil reserves since they ready for distribution already.

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## thetutle

Ali_Baba said:


> When the Soviets(Russians) invaded Afghanistan - and Pakistan supported the resistence - how much did the Soviets attempt to attack Pakistan ? Minor aerial incurisions - they never directly challenged Pakistan and Pakistan didnot have the protection of NATO or nuclear weapons at that time.
> 
> So - the question is - are the Russian prepared to directly challenge a NATO country - i suspect the answer will be - no. Time will tell .



Pakistan is slightly a bigger fish than Romania or Slovakia. And Pakistan had China. 

I think Russia will not allow it without serious consequences. If nato is united it will be ok. If they shy away from protecting weaker members its going to be bad for all.

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## Primus

dBSPL said:


> The Russians brought the Pantsir-S.
> 
> Lovers meet again.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497533782190182400


Now we will see whether or not the Pantsir really was just used badly by the arab nations or if it is just generally a bad SAM system

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## dBSPL

RescueRanger said:


> Video shows Indian Medical students trapped in the basement of the University with no way to leave Zaporizhzhia. The city has seen heavy fighting overnight:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497501846914887691


The Turkish evacuation operation continues actively. If there are Pakistani acquaintances who are stuck where they are, you can forward the following communication channels:
cagrimerkezi@mfa.gov.tr
+90 538 095 88 31

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## gambit

Hack-Hook said:


> on the same paper and the same day and the same place.
> and you yourself stated its not binding so what's the fuss about


You sure about that? I would like to see your evidence that the Budapest Agreement of 1994 contain Belarus.


----------



## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> The Turkish evacuation operation continues actively. If there are Pakistani acquaintances who are stuck where they are, you can forward the following communication channels:
> cagrimerkezi@mfa.gov.tr
> +90 538 095 88 31


Thank you will share in a whatsapp group.

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## gambit

Ali_Baba said:


> NATO can handle Russia quite easily - it is just ** NOT ALLOWED ** to handle Russia because its treaty framework and governance wont allow it for now until is activated.
> 
> *Do not confuse lack of NATO action as being "fear" or lack of capability - it is not fear. It just has no treaty obligation to get involved.*


You have to understand that for most people here, they are used to their governments acting even at the lack of legal authority, so they expect everyone to be the same.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497478851508805632

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## khail007

gambit said:


> Ooooohhhh...You guys have no idea how useful the F-35 is even when it is *OUTSIDE* the borders of conflict areas. Just because we do not publish what the F-35 found, it does not mean its flights are useless. But am glad that *YOU* mock the F-35 and I hope more people thinks shallowly like you do.



Indeed, in reference to techs, it could be a state-of-the-art piece.

Sometimes even most modern techs failed against old-time technology. So nothing is invincible in the world. Sometimes a myth is created but the reality is only and always proves on battlefields.

On 27 March 1999, during the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, a Yugoslav army unit shot down an F-117 Nighthawk stealth aircraft of the United States Air Force by firing a S-125 Neva/Pechora surface-to-air missile. The pilot ejected safely and was rescued by U.S. Air Force PJs conducting search and rescue.

On 1 May 1960, a United States U-2 spy plane was shot down by the Soviet Air Defence Forces while performing photographic aerial reconnaissance deep inside Soviet territory. The single-seat aircraft, flown by pilot Francis Gary Powers, was hit by an S-75 Dvina surface-to-air missile and crashed near Sverdlovsk.


----------



## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497536092681256962

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497535534658379781
Kaboomm


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497532631281541120

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## RescueRanger

1 x RAF: BOEING RC-135
1 x USAF: Northrop_Grumman_E-8_Joint_STARS[ Surveillance Target Attack Radar System]
3 x USAF: K35R 
1 x NORTHROP GRUMMAN RQ-4 Global Hawk

And other allied military heavy lift aircraft in the region.

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## pkuser2k12



Reactions: Angry Angry:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497406956457189379

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## gambit

khail007 said:


> Indeed, in reference to techs, it could be a state-of-the-art piece.
> 
> Sometimes even most modern techs failed against old-time technology. So nothing is invincible in the world. Sometimes a myth is created but the reality is only and always proves on battlefields.


We have *NEVER* said our sh!t is invincible.

I just wish that people would stop using 'invincible' in criticizing US. It is tiresome. Invincible and perfection are standards no one can achieve.



khail007 said:


> On 27 March 1999, during the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, a Yugoslav army unit shot down an F-117 Nighthawk stealth aircraft of the United States Air Force by firing a S-125 Neva/Pechora surface-to-air missile. The pilot ejected safely and was rescued by U.S. Air Force PJs conducting search and rescue.


I have explained, on this forum, on how that happened. That loss does not negate the technical superiority of low radar observability in the battlefields.



khail007 said:


> On 1 May 1960, a United States U-2 spy plane was shot down by the Soviet Air Defence Forces while performing photographic aerial reconnaissance deep inside Soviet territory. The single-seat aircraft, flown by pilot Francis Gary Powers, was hit by an S-75 Dvina surface-to-air missile and crashed near Sverdlovsk.


And the US never lost an SR-71. And the U-2/TR-1 continues flying to this day with no one having anything better.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497443524643639303


----------



## baqai

TNT said:


> This is what happens when u elect a clown as your President. How naive are the ukranian people, they elected a clown who used to run a comedy show on TV. Well elect clowns and then watch ur country become a joke.



nah i wouldn't say that ... we have been electing clowns for ages and this time we elected one who is cricketer as well 


RescueRanger said:


> 1 x RAF: BOEING RC-135
> 1 x USAF: Northrop_Grumman_E-8_Joint_STARS[ Surveillance Target Attack Radar System]
> 3 x USAF: K35R
> 1 x NORTHROP GRUMMAN RQ-4 Global Hawk
> 
> And other allied military heavy lift aircraft in the region.
> View attachment 818864



meh just for show, flying around wasting tax payer's money for no reason

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## gambit

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497406956457189379


Because, like it or not, Ukrainians are a more sophisticated people, miss Yawen Xu.

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## pkuser2k12



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## dBSPL

RescueRanger said:


> 1 x RAF: BOEING RC-135
> 1 x USAF: Northrop_Grumman_E-8_Joint_STARS[ Surveillance Target Attack Radar System]
> 3 x USAF: K35R
> 1 x NORTHROP GRUMMAN RQ-4 Global Hawk
> 
> And other allied military heavy lift aircraft in the region.
> View attachment 818864


US planes (globalhawks) departing from Italy do not use Turkish airspace especially. The RAF's use of Turkish airspace is an important detail in this respect.

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## beijingwalker

From Chinese social media: Due to the Pandemic, US help to Ukraine now is being provided online...

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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497406956457189379


Don't underestimate the capability of a driven group of individuals who see an sense of purpose and are finally getting what they have craved "recognition" and credibility:

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## Daniel808

Ukraine propagandist claim this Russian soldier 😂 Despite all the weapons and camo is 100% ukrainian


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497539870893477888

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## khail007

gambit said:


> We have *NEVER* said our sh!t is invincible.



You have to change your childish arrogant attitude. Here you again try to display your rouge ego by using the word 'sh!t'.
You know what you did, you just compared your 'state-of-the-art' technology with sh!t, nothing positive.


----------



## RescueRanger

Two USAF Globehawk HAV's now patrolling the black sea joined by another combat Sentinel c/s: HOMER69.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497538237874774018


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## Daniel808

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497443524643639303



But still no single photo of IL-76 wreckage. Especially according to them, that happen in southern kiev, which totally still under ukrainian control.

Typical cheap propaganda

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## gambit

khail007 said:


> You have to change your childish arrogant attitude. Here you again try to display your rouge ego by using the word 'sh!t'.
> You know what you did, you just compared your 'state-of-the-art' technology with sh!t, nothing positive.


Americans are quite generous with the word 'sh!t'. We use that word on everything. We disrespect everything.


----------



## RescueRanger

baqai said:


> meh just for show, flying around wasting tax payer's money for no reason



Ever head of signal's intelligence?

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## gambit

RescueRanger said:


> Ever head of signal's intelligence?


The guys was just trying to display his intelligence and technical sophistication of military hardware and operations. Let him be.

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## dBSPL

The Russian artillery convoy was destroyed in the Kharkov region by the Ukrainian army. A large number of towed 152 mm 2A65 Msta-B howitzers are in the convoy.

These tactical drones really produce serious benefits.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497490404161343489Anyone know the name of the music?

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## RescueRanger

Al Jazeera Journalists and Cameraman assaulted by Ukrainian Police Force officers.



RescueRanger said:


> Al Jazeera Journalists and Cameraman assaulted by Ukrainian Police Force officers.


*They are fine now, broadcast has been interrupted. *

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## khail007

gambit said:


> And the US never lost an SR-71. And the U-2/TR-1 continues flying to this day with no one having anything better.



You lost your 'independence' our roaming freely over/near the matches - Fear prevailed.
Flying over Somalia, Chad, Uganda, and Burundi will not add up to your statement.


----------



## dBSPL

lastofthepatriots said:


> There may be an upcoming regime change in Russia. Russian whores are angry at Putin’s decision of invading Ukraine which in turn resulted in sanctions and freezing of banks. The freezing of banks has stopped their income through popular whore site only fans.
> 
> View attachment 818873


So sad. Onlyfans will probably go bankrupt without russian models.

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## gambit

khail007 said:


> You lost your 'independence' our roaming freely over/near the matches - Fear prevailed.
> Flying over Somalia, Chad, Uganda, and Burundi will not add up to your statement.


I have no idea what the hell that means, and am not going to waste my time trying to decipher. Ignored.


----------



## Dariush the Great

gambit said:


> Americans are quite generous with the word 'sh!t'. We use that word on everything. We disrespect everything.


No wonder your country turned into sh.t.. even smearing poop on your US capitol.


----------



## RescueRanger

lastofthepatriots said:


> There may be an upcoming regime change in Russia. Russian whores are angry at Putin’s decision of invading Ukraine which in turn resulted in sanctions and freezing of banks. The freezing of banks has stopped their income through popular whore site only fans.
> 
> View attachment 818873


I appreciate this is a tense time, but lets not label women whores please. 

"let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

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## Nan Yang

gambit said:


> In order for the American president to do anything, domestic and foreign, he must have legal authority, or at least the facade of such. NATO membership is that legal authority. It mean since Ukraine is not a NATO member, we cannot *DIRECTLY* help Ukraine. Sympathetically, the American people stands with Ukraine, but legally speaking, and I know how it sounds 'hiding' behind the legality shield, the American people are tired of sending troops to foreign lands and fight with little or no national security interests.
> 
> What we can and will do is help Ukraine *INDIRECTLY* via the porcupine policy, or a repeat of the Soviet occupied Afghanistan policy. We will send sophisticated weapons to the Baltic countries who will send the weapons via land routes to Ukraine. We should have done this earlier but it is not too late to arm the Ukrainians enough to make life difficult for the Russian occupation.
> 
> 
> Been busy. I recently moved from the Wild Wild West part of the US back to the east coast nearer to my family. So I have been busy spending time with my little niece and nephew.


You said it yourself. "at least the facade of such". 
What is not possible with American Lawyer politicians.


----------



## khail007

gambit said:


> Americans are quite generous with the word 'sh!t'. We use that word on everything. We disrespect everything.



Advise you to practice such generosity only in your home, better for you.
Else every nation could hurl such words generously and this form could become very 'smelly and messy'.


----------



## Beidou2020

Daniel808 said:


> But still no single photo of IL-76 wreckage. Especially according to them, that happen in southern kiev, which totally still under ukrainian control.
> 
> Typical cheap propaganda



If going by Twitter and Reddit reactions, you would believe that Ukraine is about to win and march into Moscow.

These anti-Russians are beyond delusional.

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## gambit

Dariush the Great said:


> No wonder your country turned into sh.t.. even smearing poop on your US capitol.


That should tell you -- not to fvck with US. No country is that far from the Stone Age if you get US angry enough.

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## lastofthepatriots

RescueRanger said:


> I appreciate this is a tense time, but lets not label women whores please.
> 
> "let he who is without sin cast the first stone".



It’s not a joke, russian cam models are actually upset.

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## khail007

gambit said:


> I have no idea what the hell that means, and am not going to waste my time trying to decipher. Ignored.



Ha Ha ... ! here you go when you could not answer or comprehend - I know that it is deliberate.
I will not bother you when you could not answer. Anyway thanks for your ignorance.


----------



## RescueRanger

lastofthepatriots said:


> It’s not a joke, russian cam models are actually upset.


Haha, I am sure they are, well Putin has really screwed his entire people over this. I suspect there will be a lot of racism directed towards Russians in the West and Europe long after the dust settles on this misadventure in Ukraine.

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## gambit

Nan Yang said:


> You said it yourself. "at least the facade of such".
> What is not possible with American Lawyer politicians.


A facade needs a foundation. But if *YOU* are comfortable with no laws at all in your country...


----------



## dBSPL

Beidou2020 said:


> If going by Twitter and Reddit reactions, you would believe that Ukraine is about to win and march into Moscow.
> 
> These anti-Russians are beyond delusional.


You should not confuse the situation in there. The invading party is Russia. Ukrainian people defending their land. No matter how superior Russia is, Tactically, the advantage is on the defensive side.


----------



## thetutle

Why would Russian models not be paid? there is no embargo on them.


----------



## TopGun786

jamahir said:


> Zelensky should put aside his ego and agree to tell his military to cease fighting and join his country as a Russian ally. Why is he letting his people suffer ? Why is he hoping to still enter NATO ?


110% agree.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

dBSPL said:


> The Russian artillery convoy was destroyed in the Kharkov region by the Ukrainian army. A large number of towed 152 mm 2A65 Msta-B howitzers are in the convoy.
> 
> These tactical drones really produce serious benefits.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497490404161343489Anyone know the name of the music?



Bayrakter TB2 coming thru

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## Inception-06

Ali_Baba said:


> When the Soviets(Russians) invaded Afghanistan - and Pakistan supported the resistence - how much did the Soviets attempt to attack Pakistan ? Minor aerial incurisions - they never directly challenged Pakistan and Pakistan didnot have the protection of NATO or nuclear weapons at that time.
> 
> So - the question is - are the Russian prepared to directly challenge a NATO country - i suspect the answer will be - no. Time will tell .



I also guess the Russians did not calculated, the continuing weapon supplies of the NATO members, the NATO ESINT support to the Ukraine ground Forces. From now it looks a little but clueless if you watch how the Russians enter populated civilian Ukraine areas.

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## RescueRanger

Today's front cover for Slovakian popular magazine Novy Cas:

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## dBSPL

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Bayrakter TB2 coming thru


Serving TB2 footage from Karabakh was used as a pretext for embargoes that had a sensational impact. No images were shared during the operation in Ethiopia. I think Turkey has done something about this so that its balanced relationship with Russia is not harmed.


----------



## Foinikas

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Bayrakter TB2 coming thru


Who says it's from Bayraktar?


----------



## dBSPL

gambit said:


> There is no confusion. The PDF Chinese are under orders from The Party to put on a defense for Russia in this forum.


Although there is a very crowded Chinese group in the forum, it draws my attention to the fact that they always agree on everything. There is no other country in the forum that can be similar to this situation.

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## SIPRA

RescueRanger said:


> "let he who is without sin cast the first stone".



"Haathon main liye sang-e-saza soch raha hoon
Aesa bhi koyi hae, jo gunahgaar naheen hae"
(Tanveer Sipra)

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## RescueRanger

thetutle said:


> Why would Russian models not be paid? there is no embargo on them.


This article from the FT explains why:




__





Subscribe to read | Financial Times


News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




www.ft.com


----------



## Foinikas

dBSPL said:


> Although there is a very crowded Chinese group in the forum, it draws my attention to the fact that they always agree on everything. There is no other country in the forum that can be similar to this situation.


Yeah that's true. The vast majority of them agree on almost everything.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497548285816770563

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> Although there is a very crowded Chinese group in the forum, it draws my attention to the fact that they always agree on everything. There is no other country in the forum that can be similar to this situation.



To better dissect the reason behind this, I strongly recommend watching this movie:









To Live (1994) – Deep Focus Review – Movie Reviews, Critical Essays, and Film Analysis


Arguably the most renowned filmmaker of Chinese cinema’s Fifth Generation, Zhang Yimou reached the peak of his cinematic powers in the 1990s with a




deepfocusreview.com





Consider it an experiment in politics.

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## Ali_Baba

Daniel808 said:


> But still no single photo of IL-76 wreckage. Especially according to them, that happen in southern kiev, which totally still under ukrainian control.
> 
> Typical cheap propaganda



Ukranians do not need to run a propanda campaign to justify their illegal actions or propagate a false narrative - it is the Russians who need to do that as what they are doing is both illegal and immoral - and sites like "ASB News / MILITARY" are the vehicles of that Russian propaganda.

The lack of a picture - does not mean it did not happen either.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497301943667986432

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## Foinikas

gambit said:


> One has to give 'props' to The Party on managing its internet forces.


You can't disagree with the Party,can you?


----------



## Inception-06

reflecthofgeismar said:


> Hitler was a GB lover.
> He even liked France and Greece very much.
> But even without Holocaust intention and all the stuff, I wouldn't have liked that strong Germany.
> Germany should be a mix of Switzerland, Singapur and Israel.
> Do trade with all and have no larger ambitions, except own wealth, tradition, strong(est) land force and peace in buffer states.
> A German Kaiserreich, without the intention to have a too strong navy, would be ok.



Why are so many Germans in PDF ?


Huffal said:


> Now we will see whether or not the Pantsir really was just used badly by the arab nations or if it is just generally a bad SAM system


 It’s all about deployment tactics, crew training and transport - convoy protection discipline - orders. In this Video the convoy is vulnerable to small arms fire from any households.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497460508328448000

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## dBSPL

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497301943667986432


Turning this low-profile comedian into a world-renowned hero was something truly impossible.
Putin has accomplished the impossible.

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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497460508328448000


Please don't post neo-nazi propaganda on PDF, take a close look at the patches on their shoulders. *They are Azov Battalion volunteers. *

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## TheNoob

gambit said:


> There is no confusion. The PDF Chinese are under orders from The Party to put on a defense for Russia in this forum.



I like how easy it is for one to lose any credibility in this world.


----------



## Foinikas

Ali_Baba said:


> Ukranians do not need to run a propanda campaign to justify their illegal actions or propagate a false narrative - it is the Russians who need to do that as what they are doing is both illegal and immoral - and sites like "ASB News / MILITARY" are the vehicles of that Russian propaganda.
> 
> The lack of a picture - does not mean it did not happen either.


Ah Ali Baba! The anti-French anti-Russian British Pakistani!


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Foinikas said:


> Yeah that's true. The vast majority of them agree on almost everything.


Many here believe Xi Jinping is too moderate and liberal. His inability to take advantage of the Ukraine situation or declare stronger support for Russia is a sign of weakness.

If it is true that Xi actually asked Putin to hold off the invasion until after the Olympics then he's a fool. What's a simple Olympics worth vs. the geopolitical ascension of a key ally and the punishment of an enemy regime? Ukraine stole billions from the Chinese people and if Chinese can't punish them directly then why not allow Putin to do so?









Chinese aerospace company seeks US$4.5 billion from Ukraine government


Chinese company seeks US$4.5 billion in compensation over deal scuppered on national security grounds.




www.scmp.com

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## Foinikas

RescueRanger said:


> Please don't post neo-nazi propaganda on PDF, take a close look at the patches on their shoulders. *They are Azov Battalion volunteers. *


That video is from 2015 and it's called "Prayer of the Ukrainian nationalists" or something. I have it downloaded from youtube since then in good quality.


----------



## Han Patriot

dBSPL said:


> Although there is a very crowded Chinese group in the forum, it draws my attention to the fact that they always agree on everything. There is no other country in the forum that can be similar to this situation.


Because most Chinese have common sense. Why would we support Ukraine when they backstabed us? They are becoming an American whore, that's why we are angry. Russia is a real independent country like us. No matter how poor they are, they strive to be independent. Look mate, we could have went the easy way like Ukraine just bend backwards for US.

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## dBSPL

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497338468141207553


Bro it is propaganda video and we were talked about it last night.

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## gambit

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Many here believe Xi Jinping is too moderate and liberal. His inability to take advantage of the Ukraine situation or declare stronger support for Russia is a sign of weakness.
> 
> If it is true that Xi actually asked Putin to hold off the invasion until after the Olympics then he's a fool. What's a simple Olympics worth vs. the geopolitical ascension of a key ally and the punishment of an enemy regime? Ukraine stole billions from the Chinese people and if Chinese can't punish them directly then why not allow Putin to do so?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese aerospace company seeks US$4.5 billion from Ukraine government
> 
> 
> Chinese company seeks US$4.5 billion in compensation over deal scuppered on national security grounds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.scmp.com


There are always two sides to every story.

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## RescueRanger

Foinikas said:


> That video is from 2015 and it's called "Prayer of the Ukrainian nationalists" or something. I have it downloaded from youtube since then in good quality.


I am referring to the people in the video. This is not a space to promote extremist groups, no matter how warm or fuzzy the message.



dBSPL said:


> Bro it is propaganda video and we were talked about it last night.


He won't listen, I even made a lengthy post about this group in this thread to avoid promoting these lunatics. Please feel free to share pro-Ukraine videos, just nothing to do with Azov Battalions. They are Neo-Nazi's and all Nazi's suck a$$!

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## Beidou2020

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Many here believe Xi Jinping is too moderate and liberal. His inability to take advantage of the Ukraine situation or declare stronger support for Russia is a sign of weakness.
> 
> If it is true that Xi actually asked Putin to hold off the invasion until after the Olympics then he's a fool. What's a simple Olympics worth vs. the geopolitical ascension of a key ally and the punishment of an enemy regime? Ukraine stole billions from the Chinese people and if Chinese can't punish them directly then why not allow Putin to do so?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese aerospace company seeks US$4.5 billion from Ukraine government
> 
> 
> Chinese company seeks US$4.5 billion in compensation over deal scuppered on national security grounds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.scmp.com



If NATO war criminals attack Russia and Xi decides to stay on the sidelines and watch Russia get weakened, then it is a major strategic blunder by Xi.

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## Foinikas

RescueRanger said:


> I am referring to the people in the video. This is not a space to promote extremist groups, no matter how warm or fuzzy the message.


That's what I'm talking about. They are Azov members like you said. It's not from now,it's from 2015.

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## MMM-E

Han Patriot said:


> Because most Chinese have common sense. Why would we support Ukraine when they backstabed us? They are becoming an American whore,



Ukraine gave Aircraft Carrier , Naval and Tank Engines even long range Cruise Missile technologies and many more to China

what did do China for Ukraine ? nothing
better you chinese should act as neutral

btw you chinese never forget about it , USA saved China from Japan in WW2

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## Chak Bamu

I agree.

I did not know some of the gory stuff, but I know Kadyrov is brutal. Honestly, Chechens have done well to resist Russians, but there is no point in continuing with war when everything is destroyed. So, Chechens can wait for their chances. But certainly this is not a good time at all. Its sad how they are being used, but I suppose this is how it is for now.


Jf-17 block 3 said:


> We can’t say Chechen’s have chosen Russia since Chechen’s can’t express their views openly without Kadyrov’s gangs killing and raping them.
> Chechens and Russians have always been enemies historically and always fought one another historically.
> Idk about Putin but Kadyrov is a brutal dictator and far worse then anyone else. If woman are caught wearing a niqab in Chechnya they are forced to take it off on live tv and shamed. Kadyrov kidnaps and kills his opponents. He even stoops down to such lows to rape his opponents sisters, wives and mothers and send them videos, an incident like that happened very recently. There was 2 years ago a video of a man getting forced by Kadyrov’s men to do nasty sexually harmful stuff to him self and the video is still online somewhere. Majority if not all of anti Kadyrov Chechens were forced to flee Chechnya. Many anti Russian Chechen mujahideen had to flee as well and instead ending up fighting in Syria and Iraq and Ukraine.
> Also Chechens are being treated as cannon fodder by Putin rn. Their sending Chechens because Chechen casualties won’t cause the same up roar in Russia as Russian casualties would.
> Putin isn’t more receptive to Muslims concerns he’s just doing what he thinks would help Russian interests. Putin supporting Assad and bombing any moving thing in Syria shows he doesn’t care about Muslims in fact no one in the world does even many Muslim countries don’t. Where European leaders are openly racist against Muslims, Putin talks sweet but kills more Muslims then majority of Europeans.
> Chechens did well but unfortunately lost and the war was getting too bloody however, at least if Russia wants peace in Chechnya at least allow religious freedom in Chechnya and basic human rights. Russian state only allows “traditional” Islam, whatever that is suppose to mean. Wear a niqab in Russia you’ll be labelled a wahabi and their banned in Russia along with “political” Islam, whatever that is suppose to mean.
> It seems more like Chechens being used as cannon fodder rather then servicing their own interests. A people who number just a few million in a country of around 150 million, are majority of Russian troops overseas in conflict zones. In Syria, majority Chechen’s being used. In Ukraine, Chechens being used as cannon fodder. In other places where Russia is Chechen’s being used. Russia uses Chechen’s in its wars to avoid backlash from the Russian majority public over Putin joining these useless wars. The Russian public, its a open fact, are majority racist to Chechen’s. Putin knows this so he uses them as cannon fodder.
> 
> All I want is my fellow Muslim brothers not to be oppressed, not to be treated as cannon fodder and especially not be cannon fodder for a tyrannical regime which butchered their forefathers and don’t even give them complete religious freedom.

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## Thinker3

After this conflict and resulting sanctions on Russia, the world is going to see a huge change, these sanctions will turn Russia into a huge problem for US and NATO, now Russians will arm all enemies of US and Nato with latest weapon systems, Iran can get S400, SU35 and even SU57 and S500 among many other latest weapons, North Korea can also receive latest weapons and many other countries will also be equipped. Cold War like situation will again be created, and in this cold War US and its allies will not only be against Russia and many former soviet States but also against China, which will makes this cold war far more bigger and harsher than the previous one and can even lead to nuclear apocalypse.

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## gambit

Beidou2020 said:


> If NATO war criminals attack Russia and Xi decides to stay on the sidelines and watch Russia get weakened, then it is a major strategic blunder by Xi.


It is not that Xi 'decides' but that your China cannot do anything, militarily speaking, to help Russia if it comes to that. For now, your China is the junior partner to Russia, just like how it was during the Cold War yrs.


----------



## beast89

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497460508328448000


that footage is years old, it's when azov went fighting the separatist in the east


----------



## The SC

dBSPL said:


> Bro it is propaganda video and we were talked about it last night.


It sounds like propaganda for sure..To raise morale of the Ukrainians.. most are very depressed with this invasion.. it seems hundreds of thousands have already fled to neighboring countries..

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## Chak Bamu

Beast said:


> After he is executed. Nobody in Ukraine dare to scam China or Russia nations state money.


That will not change anything. Instead he would have become a martyr for Ukrainian nationalists. Never create martyrs out of people you hate.

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## Inception-06

MMM-E said:


> Ukraine gave Aircraft Carrier , Naval and Tank Engines even long range Cruise Missile technologies and many more to China
> 
> what did do China for Ukraine ? nothing
> better you chinese should act as neutral
> 
> btw you chinese never forget about it , USA saved China from Japan in WW2


China paid for it.

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## Beidou2020

Chechen fighters have entered Ukraine and are fighting in Kiev and Donbass. Azov battalion neo-Nazis going head to head with Chechen fighters.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497537193346220038

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497537196282331137

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497537199415377923

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497537201403580421

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497537203257421826

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497537205128122369

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## beijingwalker

gambit said:


> It is not that Xi 'decides' but that your China cannot do anything, militarily speaking, to help Russia if it comes to that. For now, your China is the junior partner to Russia, just like how it was during the Cold War yrs.


Lol, sounds like US dares to militarily challenge Russia in Ukraine.. what a coward

From Chinese social media: Due to the Pandemic, US help to Ukraine now is being provided online... 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂

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## dBSPL

Another smart ammunition attack from top

Disclaimer: It is from Official page of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine, but please do not quote without the spoiler code because of pdf publishing rules.



Spoiler: adult content





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497541775707316228

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## Inception-06

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497537193346220038
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497537196282331137
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497537199415377923
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497537201403580421
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497537203257421826
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497537205128122369



I agree that the fierce resistance is factually ignored in the planning of the Russian . invaders. That let look Putins world power claims a little bit more dump.


----------



## Vergennes

Still waiting for the photos and videos of poor and opressed Ukrainians liberated from the Nazis of Kyiv by the glorious Russian army.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497555037996093446

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## zartosht

people that think ukraine is going to go on some kind of middle eastern type insurgency are *absolutely delusional*

none of the ingredients are present: "a foreign invader" " a religously commited population that sees martyrdom and heaven in fighting illegal occupiers"

Russia has historically been able to easily walk into ukraine. a bunch of stupid lil kids are going to get themselves killed on western propagand.

only to the delight of their western propaganda handlers, who will use their cheap blood as propaganda.

molotov cocktails? really? If a building throws a molotov, and a tank responds and destroys it. you do realize thats a justified target of war?

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## NotSure

Ali_Baba said:


> Ukranians do not need to run a propanda campaign to justify their illegal actions or propagate a false narrative - it is the Russians who need to do that as what they are doing is both illegal and immoral - and sites like "ASB News / MILITARY" are the vehicles of that Russian propaganda.
> 
> The lack of a picture - does not mean it did not happen either.


Yeah, they "do not need to run a propaganda campaign" and at the same time pulling ridiculous claims out of their *ss like one ukrop Mig-29 downed 6 russian aircraft in one day. Including 2 x Su-35. Or the retaken aiport in Gostomel or this downing of 2 Il-76.

Proofs? Hohol do not need to deliver proof, sorry, to run a propaganda campaign.

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## gambit

beijingwalker said:


> Lol, sounds like US dares to militarily challenge Russia in Ukraine.. what a coward
> 
> From Chinese social media: Due to the Pandemic, US help to Ukraine now is being provided online... 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂


And what is your junior partner doing to help senior Russia? Pay for it when Putin calls Xi.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497547745997254661
Wow

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## Beidou2020

MMM-E said:


> Ukraine gave Aircraft Carrier , Naval and Tank Engines even long range Cruise Missile technologies and many more to China
> 
> what did do China for Ukraine ? nothing
> better you chinese should act as neutral
> 
> btw you chinese never forget about it , USA saved China from Japan in WW2



China owes Ukraine nothing. It was a business deal. Ukraine sold what they have and China paid for it. Full stop.

China’s national interest is to support Russia. Russia is the only strategic partner that can help China in a crisis.

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## Englishman

gambit said:


> Because, like it or not, Ukrainians are a more sophisticated people, miss Yawen Xu.



Sophisticated people are more likely to fear death?


----------



## beijingwalker

gambit said:


> And what is your junior partner doing to help senior Russia? Pay for it when Putin calls Xi.


Russia can handle Ukraine by itself, what does it need China for? what about your coward Nato? busy pooping your pants?

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## FairAndUnbiased

gambit said:


> It is not that Xi 'decides' but that your China cannot do anything, militarily speaking, to help Russia if it comes to that. For now, your China is the junior partner to Russia, just like how it was during the Cold War yrs.



How come US government wanted China to hold Russia back?









U.S. Officials Repeatedly Urged China to Help Avert War in Ukraine


Americans presented Chinese officials with intelligence on Russia’s troop buildup in hopes that President Xi Jinping would step in, but were repeatedly rebuffed.




www.nytimes.com





These are all seasoned Cold War era politicians, surely they wouldn't ask a mere junior partner to stop the boss...

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## RescueRanger



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## Thinker3

WinterFangs said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497348534856826884
> I don’t know why so many Pakistanis are supporting Russia, when Ukraine has backed pakistan many times from voting against India for Kashmir in the un to more.


Pakistanis are not against Ukraine, but many Pakistanis know that Ukraine is been used as a scapegoat by others. Ukraine was handed over to Russia to invade by US by saying US will not militarily involve if Russia invades Ukraine. I feel sorry for the Ukrainians but in time they will realise that they were been used.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497554843833147395


///



MMM-E said:


> you pakistanis are servant of chinese ? I talked to chinese guys


please stop!

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## RescueRanger

MMM-E said:


> you pakistanis are servant of chinese ? I talked to chinese guys


Please remain civil.

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## MMM-E

Beidou2020 said:


> China owes Ukraine nothing. It was a business deal. Ukraine sold what they have and China paid for it. Full stop.
> 
> China’s national interest is to support Russia. Russia is the only strategic partner that can help China in a crisis.




Ukraine considered China as friendly country and gave most critical military technologies to China
you chinese should say thanks to Ukraine

and one day Russia will need NATO against China


----------



## beijingwalker

Thinker3 said:


> Pakistanis are not against Ukraine, but many Pakistanis know that Ukraine is been used as a scapegoat by others. Ukraine was handed over to Russia to invade by US by saying US will not militarily involve if Russia invades Ukraine. I feel sorry for the Ukrainians but in time they will realise that they were been used.


Same here , both Russia and Ukraine are China's good friends, we hate to see war and killing between friends, we just don't like the disgusting role Nato is playing there, this whole war was instigated and stoked by Nato.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497541956318212097

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## gambit

Englishman said:


> Sophisticated people are more likely to fear death?


Or maybe they value their country?

Forget about 'Ukraine' for a moment. For any people with a distinct culture, when their country is threatened, where else can they go? Sure, those who cannot fight for physical/medical reasons should, or must, leave. But for those who can fight, they are usually morally compelled to stay to at least try to defend their country.

But now back to Ukraine. At one point, Ukraine was steward to 1700 nuclear warheads. That mean from maintenance to operational readiness. We never saw that level from the Taliban who were more interested in buggering little boys than to fiddle with electronics. Training is always an evolutionary affair. So if Ukrainians are willing to be trained remotely, why not?


----------



## RescueRanger

WinterFangs said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497348534856826884
> I don’t know why so many Pakistanis are supporting Russia, when Ukraine has backed pakistan many times from voting against India for Kashmir in the un to more.


Where did you get this "so many Pakistanis" from? From a few posters on PDF? You do known that Pakistan has cooperation in defense production with Ukraine? Right!?

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## RescueRanger

zartosht said:


> people that think ukraine is going to go on some kind of middle eastern type insurgency are *absolutely delusional*











Conflict in Ukraine | Global Conflict Tracker


Learn about the world's top hotspots with this interactive Global Conflict Tracker from the Center for Preventive Action at the Council on Foreign Relations.




www.cfr.org


----------



## gambit

FairAndUnbiased said:


> How come US government wanted China to hold Russia back?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. Officials Repeatedly Urged China to Help Avert War in Ukraine
> 
> 
> Americans presented Chinese officials with intelligence on Russia’s troop buildup in hopes that President Xi Jinping would step in, but were repeatedly rebuffed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are all seasoned Cold War era politicians, surely they wouldn't ask a mere junior partner to stop the boss...


Why not ask? But now we know that China gave Russia the intel that we gave China...I will leave it open as to our options...


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497496218359898116


----------



## Song Hong

Zelensky fled yesterday to Lvov yesterday. I guess Kiev will be surrendering very soon.





__ https://www.facebook.com/globaltimesnews/posts/5035130149901178

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## beijingwalker

gambit said:


> Why not ask? But now we know that China gave Russia the intel that we gave China...I will leave it open as to our options...


What intel US will and can give to China that Russia hadn't already told us?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497283965757108231

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497506190842023937

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## Faqirze

So what's the deal with Ukraine at the moment? how's the Russian army been faring up?


----------



## RescueRanger

MMM-E said:


> you remain civil and stop being happy with illegal invasion of Ukraine


Apparently comprehension is not your strong suit. Have a break, have a kit kat. You need to take some time away from the keyboard and think before you type things in anger.

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## Song Hong

Zelensky best hope is Russian just stop at Kiev. We see if Putin will be pursuing Zelensky to Lvov.

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## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> You sure about that? I would like to see your evidence that the Budapest Agreement of 1994 contain Belarus.


The *Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances* refers to three *identical *political agreements signed at the OSCE conference in Budapest, Hungary on 5 December 1994 to provide security assurances by its signatories relating to the accession of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. The memorandum was originally signed by three nuclear powers: the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States. China and France gave somewhat weaker individual assurances in separate documents


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497360127669596161

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## gambit

beijingwalker said:


> What intel US will and can give to China that Russia hadn't already told us?


Yeah..Am going to tell you in an open internet forum...


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497561645534654466

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## gambit

Hack-Hook said:


> The *Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances* refers to three *identical *political agreements signed at the OSCE conference in Budapest, Hungary on 5 December 1994 to provide security assurances by its signatories relating to the accession of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. The memorandum was originally signed by three nuclear powers: the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States. China and France gave somewhat weaker individual assurances in separate documents


So in regards to Ukraine, there were no mention of Belarus. Correct me if am wrong. Let us take this one step at a time.

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## RescueRanger

Lviv will be the next target if Putin's thugs take over Kyiv.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497520235179556864
UK MOD latest assessment

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## dBSPL

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497561645534654466


As long as Ukrainians continue to provide open intelligence, it doesn't look like it will take long.

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## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> Because, like it or not, Ukrainians are a more sophisticated people, miss Yawen Xu.


training is important , the teaching must be hammered in soldier only teaching and theory give you nothing , it take months of intense training


----------



## _Nabil_

Is this confirmed?









Chinese banks limit financing for Russian purchases | Business


Several Chinese public banks are limiting financing to purchase raw materials from Russia for fear of Western sanctions following the invasion of Ukraine, reports Bloomberg.




www.news24.com


----------



## Primus

Faqirze said:


> So what's the deal with Ukraine at the moment? how's the Russian army been faring up?


Ukraine's been putting up some stiff resistence, but its not enough to stop Russia. 

Russian military has been blitzkrieging the Ukrainians hard. Currently advancing an estimated 125km per day into Ukrainian terrritory. The Ukrainian air force has been hit really hard by the Russians, with the 7th tactical air wing and the possibly the 831st tactical brigade being wiped out (su27 and su24 destroyed). A heck tonne of ukrainian airfields, bases and air ports have been bombed/destroyed. Russia currently holding air superiority. 

Russia currently fighting in Kiev. Ukrainians are currently conducting a retreat from several cities, which the russians have taken. A lot of Ukrainian soldiers and Russian soldiers dead

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## Hack-Hook

beijingwalker said:


> From Chinese social media: Due to the Pandemic, US help to Ukraine now is being provided online...


who believed the joke become truth


----------



## Dai Toruko

Countries that have closed their airspace to Russia...

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## mike2000 is back

Beidou2020 said:


> If NATO attacks Russia, China absolutely must join the fight and help Russia. This is of critical importance. It will no longer be about Ukraine sovereignty, it will a global war. China can’t just watch from the sideline and see Russia weakened.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497435602857304065


Seems you are more knowledgeable about China's interests than Xi Jinping and CCP itself 😆


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497564855053819911

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## FuturePAF

LimaCharlie said:


> İs this real?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496947089498066944


Looks like DCS

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## jamahir

From 2017 but especially relevant now :


> Brazilian police have unveiled a plot led by a Ukrainian armed movement to recruit Brazilian neo-Nazis with combat experience to fight pro-Russian rebels in the European country’s civil war.
> 
> A series of raids took place last month in seven cities on the homes of neo-Nazis in order to prevent possible attacks against Jews and gays in Porto Alegre, according to Brazilian police, who seized vast amounts of Nazi propaganda material and also illegal ammunition, reported the Zero Hora news portal.
> 
> The Brazilian Israelite Confederation, the country’s umbrella Jewish organization, said Monday in a statement on its website that it is “following the investigation,” but preferred not to address journalists. It re-published news articles about the case from Brazilian newspapers on its site.
> 
> 
> “Brazil’s simmering neo-Nazi movement, with its secret world of swastikas, hate propaganda and street violence, was being recruited by right-wing extremists in Ukraine,” reported the Financial Times on Tuesday.
> 
> According to Brazilian police, an Italian member of an international socialist national group called Misanthropic Division was recruiting youngsters ten months ago to fight in Ukraine. They are believed to have ties with Azov Battalion, an ultra-nationalist paramilitary group aligned with Kiev.
> 
> “They offered money and military training. We confirmed that a native of Porto Alegre had been fighting in Ukraine after being recruited,” a police spokesman told the newspaper, adding that at least another five may have joined in fighting in the war.
> 
> Brazil’s southernmost state of Rio Grande do Sul, where the recruitment took place, hosts a large community of German descendants. Since 2013, over 50 people have been investigated for downloading Nazi content from the internet.
> 
> A study by the University of Campinas revealed that there are about 100,000 Hitler supporters in Brazil’s southern region and several racist groups believed to be active, reported Zero Hora.
> 
> The rise of neo-Nazis in Brazil has challenged a popular myth that racism, at least the overt variety on display in the U.S. and other western countries, does not exist there, the Financial Times wrote.
> 
> Four skinheads who reportedly were planning an attack on another gang, who also were carrying anti-Jewish neo-Nazi propaganda, were arrested last week in Sao Paulo. They had showed their faces openly on an internet video challenging a rabbi that had taped a pro-Jewish message standing up next to an anti-Semitic poster.



@lastofthepatriots @F-22Raptor @gambit, so other than these foreign Nazis there is also the Ukranian Nazi anti-Russian group called Azov Battalion which seems to be notorious. Can you three say openly in America where you live that you support these Ukrainian Nazis ? The Nazis are collaborating with the Ukranian military and irony is both the Ukranian president and prime minister are Jews.


----------



## RescueRanger

Geolocation of Russian S2 
Original Image:





Direction of Travel: Ivankiv, Kyiv Oblast 50°56'4.41"N 29°54'24.63"E 












FuturePAF said:


> Looks like DCS


Its from ARMA II - A video game.

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## FuturePAF

Vapnope said:


> Damien Symon (@detresfa_) Tweeted:
> Tracking the second day of fighting in #Ukraine as a battle is underway for control of #Kyiv, with #Russia trying to encircle the city, a joint mapping effort with @COUPSURE & @SimTack also covers other fronts evolving around the #RussiaUkraineWar https://t.co/xwR5N0H0K2
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497208350727192583


Considering the Russians don’t fear foreign interference, and the lessons they learned from taking cities first and then the country side, it looks like the Russians are following the guerrilla playbook; take the countryside and slowly work towards the large cities.

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## NeonNinja

Turkey closed Black sea for Russian warships?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497564078897774598

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## ZeEa5KPul

gambit said:


> That should tell you -- not to fvck with US. No country is that far from the Stone Age if you get US angry enough.


Shhhh.🤫




🤫

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497566097888923650

Turkey to block Russian warships to the Black Sea

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## monitor

Is this true can anyone confirm 

U.S. officials to AP confirm that TWO Russian Il-76 military transport planes were shot-down.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Foinikas said:


> Ah Ali Baba! The anti-French anti-Russian British Pakistani!



I am guilty - yes - as I choose to stand with Ukraine - a democracy versus the thugs and barbarians of Russian occupation forces ...

I am guilty - yes - I stand with Pakistan and Kashmir as I am against the sale of sophisticated French weapon systems to the RSS filled Modi regime of India.

I am guilty - yes - I am against also the hostility of Macron towards the UK and the French hostility towards the UK of recent years and i am happy to call that out.

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## RescueRanger

monitor said:


> Is this true can anyone confirm
> 
> U.S. officials to AP confirm that TWO Russian Il-76 military transport planes were shot-down.


It's old news, reported yesterday, but there is no footage so every responsible news agency is saying "this has not been independently verified". Most likely, yes they would have been shot down because the Russians have thrown a lot of hardware at the Ukrainians and the losses have been costly both in terms of hardware and human capital.

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## The SC




----------



## RescueRanger

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497566097888923650
> 
> Turkey to block Russian warships to the Black Sea


Good, only logical move, a prolonged blockade of Ukraine by the Russian navy would have humanitarian costs not to mention an economic cost on shipping through the black sea.


----------



## beijingwalker

Japan's Commercial Cargo Ship Hit By Missile In Black Sea Off Ukrainian Coast​








Japan's commercial cargo ship hit by missile in Black Sea off Ukrainian coast


Panama-flagged, 2020-built, 85,065 dwt bulk carrier Namura Queen was transiting the Ukrainian port of Pivdenny (Yuzhny), east of Odesa in the Black Sea.




www.republicworld.com


----------



## Leviza

I think end game is near now


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497563957107650570

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497566097888923650
> 
> Turkey to block Russian warships to the Black Sea



Wow - where did you hear that ? I have heard Turkey is trying to agree to a ceasefire just now on the BBC.

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## Areesh

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497360127669596161



WTF man

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## _Nabil_

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497563957107650570


Can you share a single confirmed info?
All your posts are unconfirmed or just propaganda...

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## F-22Raptor

_Nabil_ said:


> Can you share a single confirmed info?
> All your posts are unconfirmed !!!



All of these are coming from intel and defense sources on Twitter

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## TheNoob

_Nabil_ said:


> Can you share a single confirmed info?
> All your posts are unconfirmed or just propaganda...



You will soon learn to ignore his posts. xD

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497567309736693763


----------



## The SC

The media and propaganda war is very important, and it is one of the things in which the Western media seem to support Ukraine, albeit relatively.

The Ukrainians know that there is a rejection of the war inside Russia. If you follow the intervention correspondents in Moscow, they say that the conversation on social media and Russian society in general revolves around the advantage of war in the first place, and the Ukrainians will play on this point to push the Russians to further reject the war and perhaps internal pressure on Putin .

On the other hand, the Russians also use the same weapon, but it seems that they are less successful. Putin’s call for the leaders of the Ukrainian army to overthrow his leadership is evidence that the Russians did not win the heart of the Ukrainian people, and they don't think they will. The invaders will always look at them as invaders even if they throw roses instead of bombs.

Conclusion We must admit that many of the news promoted by both sides are exaggerations.

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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497567309736693763




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497569348386496513

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## NeonNinja

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497567825585659910


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497569854127288324

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497569837509447680
Live Webcam with dashboard for anyone interested:

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## Rafi

Alot of false propoganda on both sides, especially Ukraine, take info and vids with a pinch of salt.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497482173108322312

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## dBSPL

The irony is that in this cabaret, full of low-level humor and insults, the Turks being teased are one of the few countries that today lend a helping hand to Ukraine and the esteemed comedian president himself. Most of the spectators should be in the bunkers, too.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497570410866561025

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## TheNoob

Rafi said:


> Alot of false propoganda on both sides, especially Ukraine, take info and vids with a pinch of salt.



A lot of false propaganda whenever the US is involved in "Support". 

However, though... the double standards of the average joe in the EU are now showing up. 

A facade, all of it.

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## _Nabil_

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497570410866561025


Nice if true, let's see how much Russia is willing to resist the west

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## beijingwalker

Chinese TV news: Putin ordered to halt army advances on Feb. 25 and offered to talk with Ukraine, but Ukraine refused, Putin ordered troops to resume operation on 26th.

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## zartosht

Dai Toruko said:


> Countries that have closed their airspace to Russia...




HAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAH 

British propaganda might just be the most hilarious of the bunch.. There is a running gag about british sniper exxagerrations... 

british propaganda machines were routinely reporting 5km sniper shots that went thru 3 daesh heads, while turning around and burying itself in a taliban a-hole...

and now this.. *Russian airspace is the most valuable airspace on earth

Let me repeat that: Russian airspace is the most valuable on earth. *

A major carrier getting blocked by Russia will face an existential threat. The Russians have actually sanctioned the british airways. Now they are panicking.. 


this is the propaganda equivalent of the old:

"My chin absolutely destroyed his fist/knuckles" argument its beyond laughable

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## _Nabil_

Foinikas said:


> Do you stand against the occupation of Cyprus too mate?


I've been in Cyprus, doesn't look occupied at all....🤪


----------



## obj 705A

_Nabil_ said:


> Is this confirmed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese banks limit financing for Russian purchases | Business
> 
> 
> Several Chinese public banks are limiting financing to purchase raw materials from Russia for fear of Western sanctions following the invasion of Ukraine, reports Bloomberg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.news24.com


It is from Reuters so it is probably true.

IMO when Lenovo (a major Chinese company) announced that they will abide by the sanctions it became clear that most Chinese companies will abide by them. Putin probably didn't actually get the kind of massive economic support from Xi that some people think he got, so if Putin actually went ahead with the invasion knowing full well that alot or possibly even most Chinese companies would follow the sanctions then that means Russia actually felt militarily threatened enough by NATO's epansion in Ukraine that they went ahead with the invasion despite all the economic hardships that they would go through.

Having said that it is still too early to judge the effects on the Russian economy, we need to wait few more months. I know we are all impatient (whether we oppose or support Russia) and want to see quick results, but this is a developing situation and is the biggest military crisis Europe has seen since WWII and could easily spiral out of control.
People usually dismiss the idea of WWIII happening thinking that all politicians are far too wise to let it happen, America's reckless military expansion and threatening of the very existence of major nuclear state and the current war in Ukraine have shattered that illusion of the politicians being wise.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497570462464942086
Another destroyed Russian convoy


----------



## nufix

NeonNinja said:


> Turkey closed Black sea for Russian warships?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497564078897774598



Lol this guy made jokes out of Turkish people and now he is thanking them. What a hypocrite commedian.

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## Dariush the Great

_Nabil_ said:


> Nice if true, let's see how much Russia is willing to resist the west


Most important comment in this whole thread. It all depends how far Putin is willing to go.
Iran-style sanctions will really destroy the Russian economy.

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## TheNoob

Foinikas said:


> Like this?
> 
> View attachment 818905
> 
> 
> View attachment 818906
> View attachment 818908
> View attachment 818909



Like I said, facade.

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## maverick1977

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497570462464942086
> Another destroyed Russian convoy


Tow 2 and Javelin wrecking havoc on Russian forces ?


----------



## RescueRanger

Debunking fake videos of the war in Ukraine​From CNN's Tara Subramaniam

The way the conflict in Ukraine has unfolded across social media has made it hard for many people to figure out what's real and what's not. Cell phone videos from locals have circulated on Twitter, Facebook and TikTok, but some of the videos alleging to depict the situation on the ground in Ukraine have turned out to be fake.

Many showcase old footage from elsewhere instead, while some even used scenes from video games.

To combat misinformation around Ukraine, Facebook set up a "Special Operations Center" Thursday afternoon to respond to war-related activity and "remove content that violates our Community Standards faster," while Twitter shared tips for using its platform in conflict zones.

Texas A&M University professor Jennifer Mercieca, whose research focuses on propaganda and political rhetoric, said it's not a surprise that a conflict involving Russia includes what she calls "information warfare."

While information warfare is not new, according to Mercieca, the extent to which misinformation currently is being spread is a consequence of the sheer volume of information about the situation in Ukraine available across different forms of media.

*View more from CNN's fact-check **here**.*

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## F-22Raptor

maverick1977 said:


> Tow 2 and Javelin wrecking havoc on Russian forces ?




NLAWs and Javelins are clearly taking its toll

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## K_Bin_W

monitor said:


> Is this true can anyone confirm
> 
> U.S. officials to AP confirm that TWO Russian Il-76 military transport planes were shot-down.


Anything from western media/sources.....FLUSH.....

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## Abid123

Beidou2020 said:


> If NATO war criminals attack Russia and Xi decides to stay on the sidelines and watch Russia get weakened, then it is a major strategic blunder by Xi.


Xi needs to increase military budget to atleast 2.5% of GDP. What do you think?


----------



## Areesh

dBSPL said:


> The irony is that in this cabaret, full of low-level humor and insults, the Turks being teased are one of the few countries that today lend a helping hand to Ukraine and the esteemed comedian president himself. Most of the spectators should be in the bunkers, too.



Is that Ukraine president?

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## TheNoob

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497570462464942086
> Another destroyed Russian convoy



It's not another, 
I believe its the same convey from yesterday, but driven from another angle. 
The destroyed vehicles are in the same emplacement as that one.

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## zartosht

RescueRanger said:


> Debunking fake videos of the war in Ukraine​From CNN's Tara Subramaniam
> 
> The way the conflict in Ukraine has unfolded across social media has made it hard for many people to figure out what's real and what's not. Cell phone videos from locals have circulated on Twitter, Facebook and TikTok, but some of the videos alleging to depict the situation on the ground in Ukraine have turned out to be fake.
> 
> Many showcase old footage from elsewhere instead, while some even used scenes from video games.
> 
> To combat misinformation around Ukraine, Facebook set up a "Special Operations Center" Thursday afternoon to respond to war-related activity and "remove content that violates our Community Standards faster," while Twitter shared tips for using its platform in conflict zones.
> 
> Texas A&M University professor Jennifer Mercieca, whose research focuses on propaganda and political rhetoric, said it's not a surprise that a conflict involving Russia includes what she calls "information warfare."
> 
> While information warfare is not new, according to Mercieca, the extent to which misinformation currently is being spread is a consequence of the sheer volume of information about the situation in Ukraine available across different forms of media.
> 
> *View more from CNN's fact-check **here**.*



"CNN Fact-check" Is an oxymoron.

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## RescueRanger

Areesh said:


> Is that Ukraine president?


Yes back in the day. Like they say, don't judge a book by it's cover.

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## F-22Raptor

TheNoob said:


> It's not another,
> I believe its the same convey from yesterday, but driven from another angle.
> The destroyed vehicles are in the same emplacement as that one.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497573563829792775


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## RescueRanger

zartosht said:


> "CNN Fact-check" Is an oxymoron.


*Other sources are available. So long as its not cousin Hikmatyar on TikTok!*

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## Abid123

Beidou2020 said:


> Chechen fighters have entered Ukraine and are fighting in Kiev and Donbass. Azov battalion neo-Nazis going head to head with Chechen fighters.


Praying for our Chechen brothers🤲

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497572350983868417

So Turkey is closing off the Black Sea?


----------



## The SC

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t1wcqj

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## RescueRanger

Abid123 said:


> Praying for our Chechen brothers🤲


Praying for the innocent men, women and children of Ukraine who have through no fault of their own, been driven from their homes and had their lives turned upside down.

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## Dai Toruko

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497541964090253319

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## _Nabil_

dBSPL said:


> The irony is that in this cabaret, full of low-level humor and insults, the Turks being teased are one of the few countries that today lend a helping hand to Ukraine and the esteemed comedian president himself. Most of the spectators should be in the bunkers, too.





nufix said:


> Lol this guy made jokes out of Turkish people and now he is thanking them. What a hypocrite commedian.





Areesh said:


> Is that Ukraine president?


That Zilinski Clown was the first one to recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israhell.

He will never get my sympathy .....

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## TheNoob

RescueRanger said:


> Praying for the innocent men, women and children of Ukraine who have through no fault of their own, been driven from their homes and had their lives turned upside down.



Can we get the same for the Russian pops in the last 8 years?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497557159483117569

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## _Nabil_

RescueRanger said:


> Praying for the innocent men, women and children of Ukraine who have through no fault of their own, been driven from their homes and had their lives turned upside down.


Innocent Ukrainian men, women and children must thank god as they aren't arabs or Muslims and the attackers aren't USA, OTAN or Israhell

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## TheNoob

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497557159483117569



image of a stuck tank from Day 1 of the push.
Not really "new".

Edit: You posted that 2 times before as well! LOL

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497575339136106498

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## Primus

Foinikas said:


> Meanwhile CNN
> 
> View attachment 818913


Wings of redemption again? Damn


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

F-22Raptor said:


> All of these are coming from intel and defense sources disinformation on Twitter


Fixed.

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## RescueRanger

_Nabil_ said:


> Innocent Ukrainian men, women and children must thank god as they aren't arabs or Muslims and the attackers aren't USA, OTAN or Israhell


Lets not make this about black or brown people or about Islam and non-Muslims. Ukrainians didn't deserve for their nation to be invaded, whatever happened in history doesn't validate what has happened in Ukraine.

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## Areesh

RescueRanger said:


> Yes back in the day. Like they say, don't judge a book by it's cover.


What a clown!!!

He deserves all that he is getting

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497574435280367622

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497574436173664257


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## RescueRanger

TheNoob said:


> Can we get the same for the Russian pops in the last 8 years?


_Tu chhor day takabbur ho bhai mayray ‘Aajiz_​
_ Chhai hay us pay rahmat karta hay jo tawazu’_


----------



## Areesh

_Nabil_ said:


> That Zilinski Clown was the first one to recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israhell.
> 
> He will never get my sympathy .....



Well he is a clown. This was expected from him


----------



## _Nabil_

RescueRanger said:


> Lets not make this about black or brown people or about Islam and non-Muslims. Ukrainians didn't deserve for their nation to be invaded, whatever happened in history doesn't validate what has happened in Ukraine.


Agree, but honestly the Russian are clearly doing their best to avoid the civilians.

They also have to thank the Russians....

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## RescueRanger

Foinikas said:


> Meanwhile CNN
> 
> View attachment 818913


You do realize that is a fake post right? right?
All CNN official accounts carry a "verified tick". Nice try though. Moving on!



_Nabil_ said:


> Agree, but honestly the Russian are clearly doing their best to avoid the civilians.
> 
> They also have to thank the Russians....


Thank them for invading their country? Okay, I have no patience for someone who wishes to troll!

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## Dai Toruko

The last Ukraine war showed once again that the Russian Air Force is still not equal to the west.

They couldn't do an effective SEAD/DEAD against the Ukrainian Air Force, no serious CAS. There is no indication that they are performing CAP duties over Ukraine. They're still trying to do damage with long-range cruise missiles or artillery rockets.

Most importantly, they were not able to set up task packages and carry out a joint operation. Even when our Air Force weakened relatively after the coup attempt, we were able to operate with dozens of planes. The Russian Land Aviators are to be commended. They usually do both airborne personnel transfer and close air support.

The lessons and experience they have learned from Syria come to the fore here. But the Air Force hasn't learned the same lessons. They did not have experience of joint air operations in Syria either. Maybe every Russian pilot flew in Syria for a while, used live ammunition, but did not experience an operation carried out by different air elements at the same time. Of course, this is the situation in the first day or two of what I wrote, we'll see what happens after that.

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## dBSPL

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497572350983868417
> 
> So Turkey is closing off the Black Sea?


No.

There was no event that required closing the straits.

I think England should close the English Channel and the North Sea. Could be more effective.

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## jamahir

TheNoob said:


> image of a stuck tank from Day 1 of the push.
> Not really "new".
> 
> Edit: You posted that 2 times before as well! LOL



@F-22Raptor has gone crazy in his anti-Russian hate. And he did not reply to me about my question to him why is he supporting the Ukranian military with which Nazis units are collaborating.



_Nabil_ said:


> Agree, but honestly the Russian are clearly doing their best to avoid the civilians.
> 
> They also have to thank the Russians....



I agree. Here in India they are showing Indian TV journalist in Kiev and other places who are quite unharmed. They are freely walking about. Also, they showed a Russian tank in front of which a Ukranian man protested by getting atop the tank and then in front of it. The soldiers from the tank did not harm him. And then it's not like Russians passing Ukranian villages are harming the residents.

@RescueRanger

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## Wergeland

RescueRanger said:


> *View more from CNN's fact-check **here**.*



CNN and Fact Check, thats an oxymoron.

The best way to check factcs is to have sources from both sides and then make a logical sincere assesment of what is plausable or not

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497574435280367622
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497574436173664257



One way or the other - feels like this will be a decisive weekend - and one where the odds are being stacked against Russia to achieve what it wants. Russia is running out of time ?

Still not sure If this is true - ie banning of the black sea access(possibe? but turkey has not confirmed).

Poland, Bulgaria and the Czech Republic have just now imposed bans on Russian airlines . ( on BBC News)

Possible agreement on SWIFT bans following multiple confirmations of agreement from the hold-outs.

Pressure is being massively upped against Russia this weekend.

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## RescueRanger

jamahir said:


> @F-22Raptor has gone crazy in his anti-Russian hate. And he did not reply to me about my question to him why is he supporting the Ukranian military with which Nazis units are collaborating.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. Here in India they are showing Indian TV journalist in Kiev and other places who are quite unharmed. They are freely walking about. Also, they showed a Russian tank in front of which a Ukranian man protested by getting atop the tank and then in front of it. The soldiers from the tank did not harm him. And then it's not like Russians passing Ukranians are harming the residents.
> 
> @RescueRanger



What you see on the news or TV or social media is like statistics "What they reveal is suggestive, what they conceal is vital".

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## TheNoob

Dai Toruko said:


> The last Ukraine war showed once again that the Russian Air Force is still not equal to the west.
> 
> They couldn't do an effective SEAD/DEAD against the Ukrainian Air Force, no serious CAS. There is no indication that they are performing CAP duties over Ukraine. They're still trying to do damage with long-range cruise missiles or artillery rockets.
> 
> Most importantly, they were not able to set up task packages and carry out a joint operation. Even when our Air Force weakened relatively after the coup attempt, we were able to operate with dozens of planes. The Russian Land Aviators are to be commended. They usually do both airborne personnel transfer and close air support.
> 
> The lessons and experience they have learned from Syria come to the fore here. But the Air Force hasn't learned the same lessons. They did not have experience of joint air operations in Syria either. Maybe every Russian pilot flew in Syria for a while, used live ammunition, but did not experience an operation carried out by different air elements at the same time. Of course, this is the situation in the first day or two of what I wrote, we'll see what happens after that.



Maybe the whole ordeal was to make a point, and that's what it is. 
It is 1/3 of the force at the border, 
They gained the areas quickly due to pro-russian pops at the border only to face resistance at and around the deniper river. 
After day 2, only then the DPR and LPR militia made their moves in-ward to gain territory. 

They aren't going in for the kill. 
It's purely intimidation, the casualty count attests to that. 

Open conflict is being avoided at all costs, given how they've limited themselves to just taking out the materials with ranged weaponry. 

I highly doubt they'd want to disclose their entire playbook on Ukraine and show their current doctrine, 
as you can already see with the type of equipment being used and the regular personnel.


----------



## dBSPL

_Nabil_ said:


> That Zilinski Clown was the first one to recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israhell.
> 
> He will never get my sympathy .....


I see this as unnecessary populism(islamic style). Numerous allegations can be made about Putin as well.

Let's just focus on the war.

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## RescueRanger

Wergeland said:


> CNN and Fact Check, thats an oxymoron.
> 
> The best way to check factcs is to have sources from both sides and then make a logical sincere assesment of what is plausable or not


Yes I do understand the implication, but again I repeat my post was an example as to why factchecking is important, especially considering members posted the same ARMA II video 33 times in this tread, despite being told ITS FAKE!

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## jamahir

RescueRanger said:


> What you see on the news or TV or social media is like statistics "What they reveal is suggestive, what they conceal is vital".



I should have made clear that most Indian news channels are taking the side of the Ukranian government which essentially means toeing the Western government and media line. So that Ukranian "tank man" was been presented by this Indian channel, Aaj Tak which is notoriously right-wing ( Godi Media ), as the heroic Ukranian who single-handedly is protesting against the evil Russians.

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## RescueRanger

jamahir said:


> I should have made clear that most Indian news channels are taking the side of the Ukranian government which essentially means toeing the Western government and media line. So that Ukranian "tank man" was been presented by this Indian channel, Aaj Tak which is notoriously right-wing ( Godi Media ), as the heroic Ukranian who single-handedly is protesting against the evil Russians.



Russians have lost the PR war, they lost the PR war the moment they tried to build a narrative to invade Ukraine.

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## Dariush the Great

Dai Toruko said:


> The last Ukraine war showed once again that the Russian Air Force is still not equal to the west.
> 
> They couldn't do an effective SEAD/DEAD against the Ukrainian Air Force, no serious CAS. There is no indication that they are performing CAP duties over Ukraine. They're still trying to do damage with long-range cruise missiles or artillery rockets.


I think you have been following too much ukro lgbt propaganda twitter news.
Russia did not even use 30% of its airpower. 
This is not even a discussion, Russia is going very easy. There are no heavy bombardments.

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## FuturePAF

monitor said:


> Is this true can anyone confirm
> 
> U.S. officials to AP confirm that TWO Russian Il-76 military transport planes were shot-down.


Speaking of Il-76 planes, did the second Pakistani Il-78 get out of Ukraine?

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## sur

gambit said:


> Americans are quite generous with the word 'sh!t'. We use that word on everything. *We disrespect everything*.


You can't beat Australians though.


----------



## RescueRanger

sur said:


> You can't beat Australians though.


Put a few shrimps on the barbie m8.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

RescueRanger said:


> Russians have lost the PR war, they lost the PR war the moment they tried to build a narrative to invade Ukraine.



Russia doesn't care about PR this is do or die for them because they wanna secure their security.. As you can see the scale of the war they have launched.. They were on the fence and they don't care about narrative.. IEA had lost all the media and every single astray dog was shouting at them but they didn't give a shxt they needed there country back....

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## zartosht

_Nabil_ said:


> That Zilinski Clown was the first one to recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israhell.
> 
> He will never get my sympathy .....



Zelinski is a zionist hand appointed puppet of the west. 

Nobody even knew who he was, and he had a very low profile and came out of nowhere to win. 

The kiev junta had a heavy nazi presence, and the west needed a stooge with "holocaust sob story credentials" to counter that with. Hence we have this clown.

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## Beidou2020

Abid123 said:


> Xi needs to increase military budget to atleast 2.5% of GDP. What do you think?



Considering the geopolitical environment, it needs to be 5% of GDP. Need massive military buildup as a deterrent. No point increasing once the shooting starts.

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## RescueRanger

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Russia doesn't care about PR this is do or die for them because they wanna secure their security.. As you can see the scale of the war they have launched.. They were on the fence and they don't care about narrative.. IEA had lost all the media and every single astray dog was shouting at them but they didn't give a shxt they needed there country back....


Trust me, they will care when they are North Korea 2.0

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## Bengal71

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497574435280367622
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497574436173664257



Such a move should be considered a declaration of war on Russia. I wonder how the Russians would respond.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497582287734595597


----------



## dBSPL

Dariush the Great said:


> I think you have been following too much ukro lgbt propaganda twitter news.
> Russia did not even use 30% of its airpower.
> This is not even a discussion, Russia is going very easy. There are no heavy bombardments.


Russia is a country that has to manage a lot of risk factors due to its wide lands and policies. As tensions rise on a global scale, up-to-date aircrafts must be deployed at different points. So it is very unlikely that even 30% of its air power will be used in Ukraine. There is no need also . Because there is no such thing as Ukrainian air power. And neither any europe country nor US intends to enter Ukraine's airspace.

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## monitor

gambit said:


> That should tell you -- not to fvck with US. No country is that far from the Stone Age if you get US angry enough.



Same goes for Russia too. If anyone **** with Russians they can send them to stone age too.

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## Faqirze

RescueRanger said:


> Russians have lost the PR war, they lost the PR war the moment they tried to build a narrative to invade Ukraine.


They had no chance for PR in the first place considering the rampant shilling for Ukraine from the Western establishment and media channels and social media. But that doesn't matter for the Russians, PR is the least of their concerns. They wouldn't have full on invaded Ukraine in the first place if they actually cared about PR

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497581986705297408


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497582099443986438

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497582341220413444

Latest Pentagon assessment

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## dBSPL

zartosht said:


> Zelinski is a zionist hand appointed puppet of the west.
> 
> Nobody even knew who he was, and he had a very low profile and came out of nowhere to win.
> 
> The kiev junta had a heavy nazi presence, and the west needed a stooge with "holocaust sob story credentials" to counter that with. Hence we have this clown.


Not just Zelinski, but the company that brought him to power has deep ties. This man himself is not so important, the figure in a project, the organization that is overlooked. When the forum agenda calms down, I will share some of my information with you.

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## zartosht

just imagine the sense of entitlement of westerners... 

they are so high on themselves that its laughable..

"sieze" assets? you mean "steal Russian national wealth" 

Good luck with that. 600 billion dollars of theft should see a nuclear response

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## _Nabil_

A confrontation between a Russian tank and a Ukrainian armored vehicle near Kiev


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497570266695749636
The Russian Tank didn't hit the Ukrainian armoured vehicle ...

@RescueRanger

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## The Eagle

There is confirm chatter that most of Pro-Ukrainian accounts on social media are operated by Pro-Intel Agencies. Catch the drift. Therefore, not everything being reported by accounts, is verified or credible. That goes for either parties in this conflict. Hence, keep calm and read the messages and move on unless, it concludes on the ground. It will be foolish to think that only one side is exaggerating or manipulating especially in view of who's controlling the most of narrative building machine. Truth is the first casualty of war.

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## RescueRanger

Faqirze said:


> They wouldn't have full on invaded Ukraine in the first place if they actually cared about PR


*Which is exactly what I said! *


----------



## Beidou2020

Abid123 said:


> Praying for our Chechen brothers🤲



Looks like the Chechens are doing well


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497569396583133191

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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497582099443986438
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497582341220413444
> 
> Latest Pentagon assessment



Unfortunately for you, the Pentagon is a CIA mouthpiece. CIA has little credibility.

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## RescueRanger

_Nabil_ said:


> A confrontation between a Russian tank and a Ukrainian armored vehicle near Kiev
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497570266695749636
> The Russian Tank didn't hit the Ukrainian armoured vehicle ...
> 
> @RescueRanger


----------



## Dalit

Faqirze said:


> They had no chance for PR in the first place considering the rampant shilling for Ukraine from the Western establishment and media channels and social media. But that doesn't matter for the Russians, PR is the least of their concerns. They wouldn't have full on invaded Ukraine in the first place if they actually cared about PR



Not so long ago the Western countries were employing the same methods and tactics against Pakistan during their war in Afghanistan. The Western media war against Pakistan was vicious and hysterical.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497584681281335301

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497583729132326915

The US continues to flow lethal defensive aid into Ukraine


----------



## Messerschmitt

_Nabil_ said:


> A confrontation between a Russian tank and a Ukrainian armored vehicle near Kiev
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497570266695749636
> The Russian Tank didn't hit the Ukrainian armoured vehicle ...
> 
> @RescueRanger


That is not a Russian tank but a Strela-10 SAM system.

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## Stealth

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497582099443986438
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497582341220413444
> 
> Latest Pentagon assessment



Since when Russia has used their air power? the day and time when Russians will start using their full air power, i wouldnt be surprise if they take out entire Ukrainian AD in max 1 - 2 hours... Even Russians still using regular troops .. no special units

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## RescueRanger

Dalit said:


> Not so long ago the Western countries were employing the same methods and tactics against Pakistan during their war in Afghanistan.


The US is very good at human terrain operations, remember even CENTCOM URDU had an account on PDF. 









CENTCOM






defence.pk

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## Basel

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497569854127288324



Why NATO not giving incentive to Turkey to give it's S-400s to Ukraine??


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Sweden and Finland are already playing to the same tones as Ukraine saying it is only them who can decide independently whether they join NATO or not? after Russia gave them warning and Look what happened to Ukraine. There is 99.9% chance of Russia invading Finland and 0.1% that it doesn't


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## F-22Raptor

Stealth said:


> Since when Russia has used their air power? the day and time when Russians will start using their full air power, i wouldnt be surprise if they take out entire Ukrainian AD in max 1 - 2 hours... Even Russians still using regular troops .. no special units




Just stop, you and I both know that's not true


----------



## khail007

SIPRA said:


> "Haathon main liye sang-e-saza soch raha hoon
> Aesa bhi koyi hae, jo gunahgaar naheen hae"
> (Tanveer Sipra)



Is it yours? Anyhow, really marvelous. Appreciated.

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## sur

beijingwalker said:


> Chinese TV news: Putin ordered to halt army advances on Feb. 25 and offered to talk with Ukraine, *but Ukraine refused*, Putin ordered troops to resume operation on 26th.


As per RT, *Russia offered to have talks in Belarus which Ukraine didn't agree* to.
Ukraine offered Poland, which Russia didn't agree to.

So the stall mate may be just not agreeing on location.



Also Ukraine asked for 3rd part guarantee, if they had talks.
Russia asked for 3 points:

Demilitarize.
Be impartial (don't side with NATO).
Denazification (remove influence of neo-Nazis and nationalists who have been committing atrocities in Donbass since 2014).
Plus, a suggestion by Putin that Ukraine military take over the leadership because Putin said it will be easy to have talks with Ukraine military rather than government.



See 2nd tweet below: 👇


The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497598612183961603

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497581905281228801

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## Vapnope

Basel said:


> Why NATO not giving incentive to Turkey to give it's S-400s to Ukraine??


It would be useless,
1- Russia knows in and out of S400
2 - This is not a plug a play system
3 - Ukrainians would need time to train and integrate this system into their AD
4 - This would make things very difficult for Turkey

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497578130537656321

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## Trango Towers

frequency said:


> Gambit is a lost troll. He's a retired soldier of the past. Cold war era. Today, Putin/Russia has proved to us that this is no longer a cold war. It's a real war.


I bet he isn't a soldier. How many on the Internet have been caught pretending to be soldier and infact they served like eddy Murphy did in trading places looool



pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497578130537656321


Only white lives matter. If Israelis were killed it would be headline news

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## dBSPL

There is a certain tactical rotation in occupation wars. Troops cannot fight continuously. Soldiers should rest and not be in a constant conflict environment. When we look at the captured soldiers, it is seen that most of the captured Russians were not professional soldiers. Psychological management is more critical for these personnel.

We don't know the exact number, but as a result of the troop movements tracked from open sources, it was estimated that there was more than 120.000/ less than 200000 ( full size army) troop placement just prior to the operation (along the entire ukrainian border line, Crimea + Belarus).

What is misunderstood here is that it is thought as if over 100000 Russian soldiers were attacking or going to attack at the same time...

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## The Eagle

Only Modi ji can stop this War,,,,,, don't you believe me?




__





Leaders Around the World are asking Modi Jee to Come Forward and Stop Ukraine Russia War Because They Consider Him a World Leader: BJP MP Hema Malini






defence.pk

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497584535567056899

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## Tshering22

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497449393850839042
> 
> Really Russia? Messing with the Japanese now? Do you want to die?



*Stray US missile hit Iran in 2003*

Was this intentional back in 2003? You were not at war with Iran back then officially.

It's called stray accidental damage in a war zone. Come on man, you are a USAF veteran and you know how these things happen better than many of us civilian folks.

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## American Pakistani

Thousands upon thousands of Kashmiris butchered by illegal occupiers of Indian terrorist forces. But no one from UN or west give a fk. But look at today's headline.

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## RescueRanger

The Eagle said:


> Only Modi ji can stop this War,,,,,, don't you believe me?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leaders Around the World are asking Modi Jee to Come Forward and Stop Ukraine Russia War Because They Consider Him a World Leader: BJP MP Hema Malini
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


Got to give it to our neighbors and their sense of self importance.

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## F-22Raptor

dBSPL said:


> There is a certain tactical rotation in occupation wars. Troops cannot fight continuously. Soldiers should rest and not be in a constant conflict environment. When we look at the captured soldiers, it is seen that most of the captured Russians were not professional soldiers. Psychological management is more critical for these personnel.
> 
> We don't know the exact number, but as a result of the troop movements tracked from open sources, it was estimated that there was more than 120.000/ less than 200000 ( full size army) troop placement just prior to the operation (along the entire ukrainian border line, Crimea + Belarus).
> 
> What is misunderstood here is that it is thought as if over 100000 Russian soldiers were attacking or going to attack at the same time...



As of this morning, the Russians have committed more than 50% of its forces according to the Pentagon.


----------



## RescueRanger

American Pakistani said:


> Thousands upon thousands of Kashmiris butchered by illegal occupiers of Indian terrorist forces. But no one from UN or west give a fk. But look at today's headline.


*Sadly some blood is cheap.*

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## Khanate

*Ukraine to be turned into Afghanistan (and then abandoned)*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497506058637651974

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497588067644944384


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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Khanate said:


> *Ukraine to be turned into Afghanistan (and then abandoned)*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497506058637651974



Nobody confirms casualities qouting that is unreliable

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## MultaniGuy

American Pakistani said:


> Thousands upon thousands of Kashmiris butchered by illegal occupiers of Indian terrorist forces. But no one from UN or west give a fk. But look at today's headline.


Thats why I say Pakistan must stay neutral in Russian-Ukrainian war. This is NONE OF OUR BUSINESS.

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## Faqirze

Dalit said:


> Not so long ago the Western countries were employing the same methods and tactics against Pakistan during their war in Afghanistan. The Western media war against Pakistan was vicious and hysterical.


Pakistan was a huge ally of the West (America, Britain) back then, why would the media speak against Pakistan?


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497582287734595597


I condemn the irresponsible and un-distinguished bombing of civilian infrastructure in Iraq.... *Cough cough... *I meant Afgha.. *COUGH COUGH *..... I mean Ukraine !!! We stand with Ukraine !!!!

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## RescueRanger

MOSCOW: Russia is threatening to pull out of the Nuclear Arms reduction treaty - TRT News


----------



## Khanate

The Eagle said:


> Only Modi ji can stop this War,,,,,, don't you believe me?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leaders Around the World are asking Modi Jee to Come Forward and Stop Ukraine Russia War Because They Consider Him a World Leader: BJP MP Hema Malini
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk













RescueRanger said:


> MOSCOW: Russia is threatening to pull out of the Nuclear Arms reduction treaty - TRT News




Missiles in Cuba

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## RescueRanger

Faqirze said:


> Pakistan was a huge ally of the West (America, Britain) back then, why would the media speak against Pakistan?


Are you really this naive or just trolling?

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## Iron Shrappenel

The Eagle said:


> There is confirm chatter that most of Pro-Ukrainian accounts on social media are operated by Pro-Intel Agencies. Catch the drift. Therefore, not everything being reported by accounts, is verified or credible. That goes for either parties in this conflict. Hence, keep calm and read the messages and move on unless, it concludes on the ground. It will be foolish to think that only one side is exaggerating or manipulating especially in view of who's controlling the most of narrative building machine. Truth is the first casualty of war.


Can you stop some posters from spamming random twitter accounts and sometimes the same tweets repeatedly by the same person ? It's adding on the pages without much actual info being added....

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## Khanate

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Nobody confirms casualities qouting that is unreliable







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1493276048187961345

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## F-22Raptor

1/I am going to try to explain the irrational Russian Armed Forces behavior towards strategy, common thought, or even the chances repatriated SSO that are now POW try to murder a bunch of men with stars.

2/Here's where I will start from. The Russian armed forces have never attempted anything like this. This isn't about what kind of war they're fighting it's about what they're capable of mustering.

3/Secondly it seems the decision making structrues have low opinion in general of Ukraine and their fighting abilities and sort of an ideal that there's a willing subservience in Ukranians if they get to be part of Russia. Pure racism informing their decision making process.

4/Thirdly battalion tactical groups are terrible units to support operations. They have overload the commander lack support and might not properly integrate with air or do adeqaute scouting as signals and recon are missing along with liasons with them.

5/Fourthly without standing down even if parts of the UA Nat Guard, Police, Border Guard, Territorials and Army are defeated, UA regional commands can be autonomous for days and are vast structures, short of ordering their demobilization their removal is way too costly for RuMoD.

6/And there's a lot of hidden corruption and misreporting that gets baked in into calculations but the higher you go up the chain as in a corporation, the more dimissive management is that it will be an issue. AKA Putin doesn't even remotely grasp how bad it is.

7/Based on those 5 let me try to explain the situation now. Russian units aren't stopping fire or limiting use of their kalibrs and stand off strikes. This is all they could muster south. Kalibrs are limited by launch tubes, a bit over a hundred is what they had ready.

8/We saw constant trains and movement over time moving Ru equipment and lots of aircraft being moved over to mustering points and at the end people. By then the supply was at its limit just keeping them warm and fed. They found out the hard way this was their logistical limit.

9/What people sa wasn't that troops packed spare tanks for long drives. They were carying their fuel reserves on them. The few organic refueling trucks were not enough to make up an actual reserve or depot. They had one full compliment, some spares in one truck , thats it.

10/This didn't seem that crazy in the Kremlin because the prevailing thought in the higher echelons and Putin's inner circle and the FSB was one highly dismissive of Ukraine highly hyped up by Russian army propaganda reporting. They missed that they were buying their own bullshit


https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1497498201527521281.html

Twitter Thread cont.....

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## Abid123

RescueRanger said:


> Praying for the innocent men, women and children of Ukraine who have through no fault of their own, been driven from their homes and had their lives turned upside down.


Good! We all should pray for civilians in Ukraine as they are innocent. I also did the same. Check my post at page 98. #1467.

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## Khanate

*US: Do less or nothing*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497417840429010946

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## F-22Raptor

11/The release of the information paralyzed them in terms of decision making. But the inherent bias remained and UA delayed mobilising so it didn't dissuade them. For 7 days they ate away supplies rather than actively trying to build them further, they were waiting a go order.

12/The limited supply meant it had to be a mad dash. BTGs were split into smaller sub units traveling on multiple roads to avoid congestion. When they met something they'd wait to coalesce or get into a fight. If the UA was suprised it would work.

13/Were the Ru troops quality ones they'd do better with just surprise on their side. But they were mostly poorly trained as full units were never called up before. Usually a brigade would send only a company and could hand pick.

14/Now it's either confess the lies about readiness or be creative. Because the corruption had created such a rot, brigade commandes chose "creative" (criminal), conscripts were added to the build up. Ghosts soldiers on the roster were hidden. That meant BTGs were far greener.

15/When these hit a city or made contact they'd deploy in unideal formations of platoon to company size. Not their fault all that much, this is what they knew. Then if a UA unit knew in advance where they were and was careful, it would anihilate the BTG splinter formation.

16/Because the timetable had to be kept, supplies were already short with the delay Ru troops would go a step further. They'd keep one sub unit to block and redirect subsequent units, the rest would continue on parallel roads. Again timetable meant usually more major roads.

17/After a couple of road blocks, BTG'd be diluted, lost a bunch of units and fighting to standstill. You'd expect that there would be air or artiller support. But BTGs aren't suited for that, when they move in chunks in parallel the artillery spotters could be in another group.

18/As we said also there was a problem stocking supplies but still CAS should probably not be as limited? Yes but Russian SSO more used to directing it had other tasks and Russia doesn't have a platform like the US surveilance planes and drones that can operate in contested air.

19/And the air was contested because of the limited early strikes due to the small build up + limited recon of where UA AF & AD were prior to this. Satelites take pics at known times, moving equipment often can dissuede strikes as it's uncertain anything will be in place.

20/What then was struck were major stationary objects, depots in main areas, radars, major command and control but again limited by number of reloads. So then Ru MoD started rolling the columns with heavy support of helicopters and planes ahead.

21/This works on day 1 when you know where your guys start & can track where they are easily and you know beyond that point it's all enemy. Once you land and refuel, it's less easy especially because as we mentioned, a BTG splitinter lacks a signals unit, just has a few officers.

22/Then comes the air asault. Becuase you have to be quick you also have to do risky stuff. The problem of course is that because your helicopters are parked in fields, ready for one load with some trucks and one set of ammo, you can do it once a day with each group.

23/That's why you wait till the end of the assualt attempt to see if it works. If you have to refuel and prep for a second go, your trucks have to go to a depot and reload and then come back. And only then try again.

24/You still have to try to take the airport fast and get guys in because if the operation takes too long and you haven't kept them(the UA) on the back foot your green troops are still moving piecemeal on roads, don't have much with them, any small village could be their end.

25/So the air assault fails, part of the pincer moves fail, you can't budge most of the UA troops what do you do? You go for broke, hope you win the race between entrechment in Kyiv and you just throwing all you have and hope if you decapitate UA, regional commands lose faith.

26/Otherwise becuase what remains of your force is split in small groups moving on main roads UA can mobilize move via back roads and just recapture most of the towns as you have few troops for actual 24/7 duties and to even spot them moving back into the town.

27/Can it work? I don't know. Is it a good plan. Hell no. Could they execute anything else, without the entire structure confessing the army has corruption,which yes the boss expected, but it's such a rot it might cost him his throne, yeah not when he's in this mood.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1497498201527521281.html

Great assessment of what's happening in Russian forces

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## Han Patriot

MMM-E said:


> Ukraine gave Aircraft Carrier , Naval and Tank Engines even long range Cruise Missile technologies and many more to China
> 
> what did do China for Ukraine ? nothing
> better you chinese should act as neutral
> 
> btw you chinese never forget about it , USA saved China from Japan in WW2


They sold us those and we had to reverse them ourselves. We had to use our hard earned cash to do that. They either sell to us or some other clients, there wasn't any historical ties. US was part of the coalition that pillage China, they didn't save us, they assisted us out of necessity. Millions of Chinese soldiers died fighting the Japanese and tying up their resources to mainland China so the rest of Asia is free.

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## Khanate

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497530273977847813

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## RescueRanger

Khanate said:


> *US: Do less or nothing*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497417840429010946


The USA, doing the same thing and expecting different results:

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497589301596594180


----------



## RescueRanger

Khanate said:


> It is deliberate.
> 
> View attachment 818933


Very true. Stomach pains from 1999 haven't gone away.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497589083035648006


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## F-22Raptor

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497589301596594180




Its clear the Ukrainians are taking it to the Russians. Not afraid at all

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## Khanate

The Eagle said:


> There is confirm chatter that most of Pro-Ukrainian accounts on social media are operated by Pro-Intel Agencies. Catch the drift. Therefore, not everything being reported by accounts, is verified or credible. That goes for either parties in this conflict. Hence, keep calm and read the messages and move on unless, it concludes on the ground. It will be foolish to think that only one side is exaggerating or manipulating especially in view of who's controlling the most of narrative building machine. Truth is the first casualty of war.




Most of the English language Afghan media accounts are now inactive.

I wonder why.

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## Beast

Chak Bamu said:


> That will not change anything. Instead he would have become a martyr for Ukrainian nationalists. Never create martyrs out of people you hate.


When Russian take over Ukraine and replace with pro Russia government. He will went down in history as a national traitor.

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## alimobin memon

Confused by different tweets. Looks like russia will not win this war but will not be total defeat rather tactical victory by making two independent regions and diplomatically will fail. The kiev is yet to fall. 

Or

Could be that we havent seen war for a while amd expect a country fully invaded in 3 days is normal. Which is not possible 🤔

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## terry5

Ukraine conflict: Britain sending more arms as fighting reaches Kyiv​By Maria Zaccaro & Doug Faulkner
BBC News

*Boris Johnson has hailed plans for extra military and humanitarian support to be sent to Ukraine. *
Britain is among more than 25 countries to pledge to continue to supply arms, as capital Kyiv remains under attack from Russian forces.
Protests and demonstrations in support of Ukraine are being held across the UK, including in London and Manchester. 
And the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge have said they "stand" with the people of Ukraine as they "bravely fight".









Ukraine conflict: Protests held around UK in support of Ukraine


The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge say they "stand" with Ukraine, as rallies are held across UK.



www.bbc.com





Have to give it to the British for stepping up

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497571580431450118

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## The Eagle

Khanate said:


> Most of the English language Afghan media accounts are now inactive.
> 
> I wonder why.



Gulalai types are worried for Ashraf Ghani being shamed for what Zelensky did by staying behind and stands affirm to fight for the country.

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## RescueRanger

Khanate said:


> Most of the English language Afghan media accounts are now inactive.
> 
> I wonder why.


You will see a lot of these so called "Patriot" accounts from Ukraine suffer the same fate. Its so obvious it makes you sick in the stomach. #Sheeple syndrome.



alimobin memon said:


> Confused by different tweets. Looks like russia will not win this war but will not be total defeat rather tactical victory by making two independent regions and diplomatically will fail. The kiev is yet to fall.
> 
> Or
> 
> Could be that we havent seen war for a while amd expect a country fully invaded in 3 days is normal. Which is not possible 🤔


Please don't judge what is going on based on what you are reading on twitter.

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## Han Patriot

Apparently they slowed down the attack so that Zelensky can agree to negotiate.
Now its off and going back full throttle. 


https://sputniknews.com/20220226/putin-ordered-troops-to-stop-ukraine-op-but-it-resumed-after-kiev-refused-to-negotiate-peskov-says-1093394724.html

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## The Eagle

alimobin memon said:


> Confused by different tweets. Looks like russia will not win this war but will not be total defeat rather tactical victory by making two independent regions and diplomatically will fail. The kiev is yet to fall.
> 
> Or
> 
> Could be that we havent seen war for a while amd expect a country fully invaded in 3 days is normal. Which is not possible 🤔



No worries and don't confuse for Twitter or FaceBook. ANA was eliminating thousands of Taliban in a day till the moment when world saw Taliban taking over Afghanistan in couple of days.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497594179526008840

Germany to allow 400 anti armor weapons to Ukraine


----------



## Han Patriot

F-22Raptor said:


> Its clear the Ukrainians are taking it to the Russians. Not afraid at all


Dude is believing their own propaganda. If some Javelins and Manpads can stop Russia. We wouldn't need to invest so much. Real daft fellow here.

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## Ali_Baba

terry5 said:


> Have to give it to the British for stepping up



The UK owes a bloody nose to Putin/the Russians for conducting chemical warfare on UK soil ?

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## alimobin memon

RescueRanger said:


> You will see a lot of these so called "Patriot" accounts from Ukraine suffer the same fate. Its so obvious it makes you sick in the stomach. #Sheeple syndrome.
> 
> 
> Please don't judge what is going on based on what you are reading on twitter.



Thats what im saying twitter is only creating confusion.


----------



## The Eagle

F-22Raptor said:


> Its clear the Ukrainians are taking it to the Russians. Not afraid at all



Tactically, one can say that Russians were not going full throttle expecting that Zelensky was indicating for talks on neutrality of Ukraine. Give the credit where it is due. If things turn around from the talks; I pray & hope that lives are not lost.

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## Tshering22

Warking said:


> This is what the west thinks about us as their personal property and not equal humans.


It is unfortunately the case.

The West sadly remains saddled with the mentality from the 20th century, of "with us or against us". This mindset is precisely what plunged the world into madness 75 years ago. There were very few countries that were able to stay neutral either due to their independent position, or due being breakaway colonies. Personally, I welcome strong and stable relationship with the West as we have A LOT (commercially and strategically speaking) in common. But it does not mean that we want to be in a military alliance.

And part of this blame goes to the Asian and African countries in the post-colonial era. All of us were busy larping up to one or the other big power. Whether it was the Middle East or Asia, all countries were busy sucking so hard on big powers' **cks that they just took all of us for granted. Non-Aligned Movement did put some sense into the world's powers that some countries don't want to fight anyone, the mindset was always about "I am powerful so you better obey me, peasant". 

I hope that common sense prevails and these governments understand.

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## The SC

Ukrainians are preparing to meet the invaders.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497581269957365770


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## alimobin memon

Russia seems to be using only old tanks not t90 or t14.

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## Daniel808

Ali_Baba said:


> Ukranians do not need to run a propanda campaign to justify their illegal actions or propagate a false narrative - it is the Russians who need to do that as what they are doing is both illegal and immoral - and sites like "ASB News / MILITARY" are the vehicles of that Russian propaganda.
> 
> The lack of a picture - does not mean it did not happen either.



Russian are in the winning side.
That’s ukraine who needs propaganda to boost their morale.


Sorry, I’m not that stupid. Seeing is believing

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## Clutch

RescueRanger said:


> Lets not make this about black or brown people or about Islam and non-Muslims. Ukrainians didn't deserve for their nation to be invaded, whatever happened in history doesn't validate what has happened in Ukraine.



Hard not to see the irony and hypocrisy as a Muslim .... Perhaps being docile is the best?

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## Daniel808

Ali_Baba said:


> Ukranians do not need to run a propanda campaign to justify their illegal actions or propagate a false narrative - it is the Russians who need to do that as what they are doing is both illegal and immoral - and sites like "ASB News / MILITARY" are the vehicles of that Russian propaganda.
> 
> The lack of a picture - does not mean it did not happen either.



Russian are in the winning side.
That’s ukraine who needs propaganda to boost their morale.


Sorry, I’m not that stupid. Seeing is believing

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> Its clear the Ukrainians are taking it to the Russians. Not afraid at all



The video shows that the soldier was tactically poor interms of situation awareness and a bit too arrogant(imho) - he was lucky to not have gotten a sniper shot between the eyes given the amount of gunshots going off.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497595587197386765

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497596359091929096


----------



## Dariush the Great

alimobin memon said:


> Russia seems to be using only old tanks not t90 or t14.


IMO Putin is playing it very carefully as not to mobilize the whole West against Russia. But this is a wrong policy. The longer it takes for the Kiev government to fall the more negative consequences for Russia. A quick and swift victory will give the Russians upperhand in any future negotiations.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497597103647854595

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## Ali_Baba

Han Patriot said:


> Dude is believing their own propaganda. If some Javelins and Manpads can stop Russia. We wouldn't need to invest so much. Real daft fellow here.



Manpads and RPGs is what defeated the Soviet Union in Afghanistan if i recall correctly - and of course - the Russian AK-47 for good measure, so it is a sound tactic that has been used on the Russians before.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497590131661881345


----------



## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497589610079297537

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497583590724575239

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## F-22Raptor

Ali_Baba said:


> The video shows that the soldier was tactically poor interms of situation awareness and a bit too arrogant(imho) - he was lucky to not have gotten a sniper shot between the eyes given the amount of gunshots going off.




The point is Putin expected the Ukrainians to roll over. Its not happening.

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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497586216547540995


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497496972101664768

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## Wergeland

gambit said:


> So the danger here is that we should be content with letting larger and more powerful countries dictate the independence of smaller and weaker countries.
> 
> Hold on...!!! Am not criticizing your argument but stating geopolitical realities. For ease of discussion, am going to conflate government and its people into a single entity -- for now.
> 
> Americans at large cannot identify with the fear of living with a hostile neighbor. For the entirety of the US existence, the absence of that fear is politically inherited from the previous generation, and from the previous generation, and regressively back to the country's founding. Political scientists have argued that absence is critical component of why Americans tends to be an optimistic and even overly idealistic people. As a naturalized US citizen, I have experienced both worlds, one where the people is constantly fearful of a neighbor and one where the people is essentially naive. Am generalizing here.
> 
> What you are asking for America to accept -- geopolitical buffer states -- is anathema to the American ethos, and here is the kicker, immigrants who came to America and established new lives, they cannot impart what they feared to their children. No way how. They left for America so that their children would not have to live like they have. The fear of an ever hostile neighbor can only be learned thru experience, never thru academia. It is like asking Mongolians to build a navy while disregarding the fact that Mongolia is landlocked. Even a riverine boatman have a better foundation for the seas than Americans can guess what it is like living next to an ideological opposite. And no one can ask Americans to imagine Canadians and Mexicans as angry giants eager to subjugate them.
> 
> But the American problem of geopolitical naivete is separate from what *YOU* and your fellow Euros must deal with, namely, how do you Euros are certain that Russia will be content with just a few buffer states? Does CONEUR history supports your contention that Russia will be so satisfied? You cannot dismiss history because all tyrants with expansionist dreams looked to history to support whatever might be their claims. That Ukraine resists should be seen as a challenge to history. Given technological progress, how far away is your Norway from Russia's expansionist threat? Not very, according to the map. If NATO is a shield, does it mean it is the only one? Or should it be the only one? Strengthening NATO is good, but several countries, including major France, have contemplated leaving NATO. What if NATO disband due to lack of interests? The US will be safe from Russian's aggression, but not your Norway.
> 
> In this little corner of the internet, you are willing to sacrifice Ukraine to Russia. So do many others. But their countries are far from Russia. Yours is not.



There is a clear ideological angle to your perception of this conflict. Which of course is perfectly ok. But for me, ideology is a mere vessel for transmuting the actual geopolitical goals into reality.

It is forexample a historical fact that the Soviet Union was one of the driving forces behind de-colonization, after the second world war. I regard every form of colonialism as tyranny thus in my book there was positive sides of Soviet Union. During this period the United States OTOH was often in support of the colonial master, be it the Dutch in South Africa with it Apartheid Regime or Portugal with its reluctancy to give up Goa in India or the French who of course till this day still treat west Africa as its own backyard.

Then he have US actions in Middle East the past 20 years, which is a chapter on its own. Just for the fact, about 3-10 million civillian people have been killed from the direct consequences of these wars. What is this if not tyranny? It certainly wasnt Russia who killed all these people.

So when you use ideological angel in order to try to legitimize certain political actions. It really isnt something i will buy immidiately. There is a reason for that; Man is greedy and always lusts for power, money, gold and of course women. Those are and will always be the REAL driving factors behind every conflict on this planet.

How to know if Putin will be settled if Ukraine and Belarus would have been agreed to made into buffer zones? Well we dont know. But that is irrelevant for NATO. Because we dont have to know what Putin wants to do. All we need to know is what WE want to do. Where OUR red lines are drawn. In my book that red line is any form attack on any member state is regarded as attack on all member states. Couldnt be any clearer than that.

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## thetutle

dBSPL said:


> The irony is that in this cabaret, full of low-level humor and insults, the Turks being teased are one of the few countries that today lend a helping hand to Ukraine and the esteemed comedian president himself. Most of the spectators should be in the bunkers, too.



Ukranians are not a vary sophisticated people, the sophisticated ones were killed by Russians 100 years ago. So they might enjoy this type of stuff, but I dont think its mean spirited or belittling of turks. they probably find some of the things turks do and say funny. Its also a sign that they think about turks. They are making a show about Cambodians. 

Being thought about is the ultimate compliment.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497598973162528768

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## Daniel808

Seems Russian move fast.
Much faster than US and their crony in Iraq war


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497582704753356801

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497590211890581516


----------



## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497588324428660738

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497584722267963392

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497519061554630658


----------



## Vergennes

Daniel808 said:


> Seems Russian move fast.
> Much faster than US and their crony in Iraq war
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497582704753356801



Only in the southern front the Russians have managed some gains,on other fronts it is a disaster.

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## terry5

Why Putin's '£15BILLION-a-day' invasion is NOT going to plan: As Ukrainian forces OBLITERATE enemy convoy, Estonia's ex-defence chief says Russia will run out of money, weapons and resources if Kyiv hold out for 10 days​Vladimir Putin's war with Ukraine is not going to plan due to Kremlin 'overconfidence', poor tactical planning, and 'shock' at the fierce resistance put up by brave Ukrainians fighting for national survival, intelligence sources have claimed. Dramatic video shows a destroyed Russian convoy with Z-markings near Kherson in the south of the country on the third day of fighting after Ukraine's army held control of Kyiv and last night successfully repelled Russian advances on the capital. Estonia's former defence chief Riho Terras has now claimed that Putin's war is not going to plan because Russia is fast running out of money and weapons, and will have to enter negotiations with Volodymyr Zelensky's government if Kyiv holds off the Russians for 10 days. Citing Ukrainian intelligence sources, Terras claimed that the war is costing Russia around £15billion-per-day, and that they have rockets for three to four days at most, which they are using sparingly. He claimed that Putin's plan has relied on panicking the country, firing missiles at residential buildings 'at random' to 'intimidate' the Ukrainians, trigger mass army desertions, national surrender, and Zelensky's flight from the country.

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## Han Patriot

Ali_Baba said:


> Manpads and RPGs is what defeated the Soviet Union in Afghanistan if i recall correctly - and of course - the Russian AK-47 for good measure, so it is a sound tactic that has been used on the Russians before.


My friend taht Wass the 80s. If Manpads could do the job, then Saddam would still be here. You think Javelins are the best, have you seen China Manpads and anti tank missiles? It even has AI recognition

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## Daniel808




----------



## TheNoob

Ali_Baba said:


> Manpads and RPGs is what defeated the Soviet Union in Afghanistan if i recall correctly - and of course - the Russian AK-47 for good measure, so it is a sound tactic that has been used on the Russians before.



wishful thinking.
They were already at a resource shortfall and afghan war prolonging only worsened it.


----------



## Faqirze

I cant tell what is happening right now, most of these twitter posts are either Ukrainian or Kremlin propaganda sources.

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## Clutch

Here is the Clown Ukrainian President during his time when he was a comedian making fun not just of Turkey but of Islam.

Now he is begging for help from the same Turkey. 

Irony....

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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497571580431450118


Geolocation for this footage:
47.2766375 , 34.716688 Velyka & Bilozerka

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## nufix

Clutch said:


> Here is the Clown Ukrainian President during his time when he was a comedian making fun not just of Turkey but of Islam.
> 
> Now he is begging for help from the same Turkey.
> 
> Irony....



No wonder he has been letting Nazi and fascist groups in Ukraine running free

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## Daniel808

Vergennes said:


> Only in the southern front the Russians have managed some gains,on other fronts it is a disaster.


In Northern front and Donbass Front also.

But yes, the southern one that have more crucial impact toward ukraine.

If they don’t act fast, their Southern Army would getting encircle around Mariupol pocket. And it will be Huge disaster


----------



## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> Only in the southern front the Russians have managed some gains,on other fronts it is a disaster.





Russia still hasn't gained air superiority

Ukraine still maintains command and control

And half of Ukraine still hasn't been touched.

Disaster so far for Russia

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## nangyale

Wergeland said:


> To me it seems there is a clear ideological angle to your perception of this conflict. Which of course is perfectly ok. But for me, ideology is a mere vessel for transmuting the actual geopolitical goals into reality.
> 
> It is forexample a historical fact that the Soviet Union was one of the driving forces behind de-colonization, after the second world war. I regard every form of colonialism as tyranny thus in my book there was positive sides of Soviet Union. During this period the United States OTOH was often in support of the colonial master, be it the Dutch in South Africa with it Apartheid Regime or Portugal with its reluctancy to give up Goa in India or the French who of course till this day still treat west Africa as its own backyard.
> 
> Then he have US actions in Middle East the past 20 years, which is a chapter on its own. Just for the fact, about 3-10 million civillian people have been killed from the direct consequences of these wars. What is this if not tyranny? It certainly wasnt Russia who killed all these people.
> 
> So when you use ideological angel in order to try to legitimize certain political actions. It really isnt something i will buy immidiately. There is a reason for that; Man is greedy and always lusts for power, money, gold and of course women. Those are and will always be the REAL driving factors behind every conflict on this planet.
> 
> How to know if Putin will be settled if Ukraine and Belarus would have been agreed to made into buffer zones? Well we dont know. But that is irrelevant for NATO. Because we dont have to know what Putin wants to do. All we need to know is what WE want to do. Where OUR red lines are drawn. In my book that red line is any form attack on any member state is regarded as attack on all member states. Couldnt be any clearer than





Clutch said:


> Here is the Clown Ukrainian President during his time when he was a comedian making fun not just of Turkey but of Islam.
> 
> Now he is begging for help from the same Turkey.
> 
> Irony....


Now who in their right mind would elect such a leader?

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## terry5

Cargo ship 'belonging to Russian bank that is pivotal' to country's defence sector and among those targeted by UK government sanctions against Moscow is SEIZED in the English Channel​


The 416ft commercial boat, understood to belong to one of the 100 Russian companies which were hit with crippling EU sanctions this week, was seized in the English Channel early on Saturday morning. French authorities said the ship could belong to a Russian company suspected of violating trade sanctions linked to the war in Ukraine. The vessel, which was intercepted by customs officials, was transporting vehicles from Rouen, in France's Normandy region.


----------



## The SC

Build up of the Russian army in Ukraine 2022.2.26


----------



## nangyale

Daniel808 said:


> In Northern front and Donbass Front also
> 
> View attachment 818941


That's a pincer movement right there. 
Once the two prongs meet we will get an operational cauldron and thus the end of Ukie military. After a mopping op.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497600851656859656


----------



## Dalit

RescueRanger said:


> The US is very good at human terrain operations, remember even CENTCOM URDU had an account on PDF.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CENTCOM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk



The Americans are masters of deception.

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## Clutch

nangyale said:


> Now who in their right mind would elect such a leader?


These people...

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## Han Patriot

Guys it's uselss posting pro


F-22Raptor said:


> The point is Putin expected the Ukrainians to roll over. Its not happening.


Dude, relax, its just the second day, you think the Russians are some kind of captain America. Hey haven't even used their full potential, they also slowed down the offensive to negotiate. Cities were spared to avvooid death. Their aim was destruction of political and military infrastructure. Not even the presidential offices were touched. Use some common sense.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497600851656859656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497601270684737537


----------



## TheNoob

nangyale said:


> Now who in their right mind would elect such a leader?


 wasn't elected. Was brought in by the coup and vote manipulation.

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## Daniel808

Gostomel firmly in Russian control (especially from Chechen)

What a huge blow for ukraine, that’s mean Ukraine defence lines around northwest kiev have been collapsed


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497580840808812546

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## nangyale

Clutch said:


> These people...


Russia is doing a great service to humanity but squashing such hatred.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497504221742125056

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497602315506917380

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497602831204892679


----------



## thetutle

zartosht said:


> just imagine the sense of entitlement of westerners...
> 
> they are so high on themselves that its laughable..
> 
> "sieze" assets? you mean "steal Russian national wealth"
> 
> Good luck with that. 600 billion dollars of theft should see a nuclear response



Well there wont be a nuclear response by the Russians because its just money. It was stolen by them anyway.


----------



## FuturePAF

The Eagle said:


> There is confirm chatter that most of Pro-Ukrainian accounts on social media are operated by Pro-Intel Agencies. Catch the drift. Therefore, not everything being reported by accounts, is verified or credible. That goes for either parties in this conflict. Hence, keep calm and read the messages and move on unless, it concludes on the ground. It will be foolish to think that only one side is exaggerating or manipulating especially in view of who's controlling the most of narrative building machine. Truth is the first casualty of war.



One of the biggest back and forth are the number of casualties on the Russian side. Russians claiming their troops haven’t even received a scratch or a cold while Ukrainian sources say thousands of Russians are dead. Some articles are being written of association of Russian mothers search for their sons, reminiscent of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.









‘I’m panicking — where is my child?’ Conscript soldiers are being sent to fight against Ukraine, their relatives say. Here’s what their families told Meduza. — Meduza


Early in the morning on February 24, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced the start of a “special military operation” on Ukrainian territory — in reality, he started a full-scale war against Ukraine. Several days earlier, Russian women began posting on social media that their sons...




meduza.io

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## Invictus01

This thread is becoming a joke 
With a bunch of members 
Trading one liners and reposting content from Twitter a million times 
Feels more like a WhatsApp group with a couple of goofs talking complete nonsense
Unnecessarily taking the thread to 300+ pages

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497598663455125507

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497602718449512452

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497500116483284993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497603245287505920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497603095622082561

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497603391287185409

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497602315506917380
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497602831204892679



The west is playing with fire in these sanctions unless it is just words. Russia could strike them unilaterally if the sanctions breach the treeshold of national security


----------



## Wergeland

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia still hasn't gained air superiority
> 
> Ukraine still maintains command and control
> 
> And half of Ukraine still hasn't been touched.
> 
> Disaster so far for Russia



Is this a joke? Ukraine is the size of half of western Europe. If Russia managed to take half of that in mere 2 days i would say thats a astonishing speed.

If i were a NATO general i would seriously consider how Russia managed to do it so fast, and with relatively older tech and significantly less resources.

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## T90TankGuy

gambit said:


> What about the pledge from Russia that Russia will not attack Ukraine? You did not know that?


Can anyone really trust what Russia said? i mean really , Putin??? he is worse than our exalted dear leader.


----------



## thetutle

Trango Towers said:


> Only white lives matter. If Israelis were killed it would be headline news



Israelis are not white. Maybe 20% or 25% of the population. But yes, western media will make sure that only white Israeli victims are shown. IF you show westerners what they really all look like, westerns will think, "why the heck are we supporting these people and giving them all our money and weapons. they're not even white".

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## ZeEa5KPul

Invictus01 said:


> This thread is becoming a joke
> With a bunch of members
> Trading one liners and reposting content from Twitter a million times
> Feels more like a WhatsApp group with a couple of goofs talking complete nonsense
> Unnecessarily taking the thread to 300+ pages


Seriously. This thread is in need of moderation.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497584050227367958

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497595759386054659


----------



## nangyale

Put real sanctions on Russia and the west will be paying $150 to$200 per barrel of crude.
As for gas Europe has no alternative to what Russia supplies.
The West can play with sanctions for show for a couple of months anything more than that and you will see the European economies collapse as if 2007 was just child's play.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497605317647081474

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## TNT

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia still hasn't gained air superiority
> 
> Ukraine still maintains command and control
> 
> And half of Ukraine still hasn't been touched.
> 
> Disaster so far for Russia



Ukraine is a more than 600,000 km sq area and u saying they havent touched "half" of Ukraine in 3 days shows what a big moron u are.

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## nangyale

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497584050227367958
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497595759386054659


Scarry indeed for the nazis of Azov.


----------



## Khanate

*Snake Island surrendering*:



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497469818534088704

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## HAIDER

Clutch said:


> Here is the Clown Ukrainian President during his time when he was a comedian making fun not just of Turkey but of Islam.
> 
> Now he is begging for help from the same Turkey.
> 
> Irony....


wtf ..lol...seriously, I thought he is some public figure who came through grassroots politics ...

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## Khanate

*Good Nazi, Bad Nazi  *


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496975295085170688



nangyale said:


> Scarry indeed for the nazis of Azov.




I reckon Russia will conduct public trials of Azov battalion commanders

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## nangyale

Khanate said:


> *Snake Island surrendering*:
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497469818534088704


Th


Khanate said:


> *Snake Island surrendering*:
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497469818534088704


Slavi Ukrani🤣


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497601619503943683


----------



## nangyale

Khanate said:


> *Good Nazi, Bad Nazi  *
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496975295085170688
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I reckon Russia will conduct public trials of Azov battalion commanders


I sure hope so.

Also they need to permanently ban Facebook and twitter.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497609259688857608

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497609264327757826

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497609268480126981

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## Trango Towers

thetutle said:


> Israelis are not white. Maybe 20% or 25% of the population. But yes, western media will make sure that only white Israeli victims are shown. IF you show westerners what they really all look like, westerns will think, "why the heck are we supporting these people and giving them all our money and weapons. they're not even white".


You people are run by zionist Jews. They have only brought you war and hatred

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497598612183961603

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## Khanate

*Aggression, lies and illegal invasion...*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497576064578723850

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## Wood

Germany to send Ukraine weapons in historic shift on military aid


Until Saturday, Germany had a longstanding practice of blocking lethal weapons from being sent to conflict zones.




www.politico.eu

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## AZMwi

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497608569608278019

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497605866639429635

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497605225049300996

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497503396277800960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497501662059155456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497500266303733761

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## Daniel808

While ukraine propagandist only claim claim claim on twitter without any proof.


Russian always give photo as solid proof 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497544311117914113

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## R Wing

RescueRanger said:


> Russians have lost the PR war, they lost the PR war the moment they tried to build a narrative to invade Ukraine.



They lost the PR war the day they didn't fit into American hegemonic plans. US information domination is terrifyingly effective. 

From CIA buyouts of intellectuals and media the world over to secret arrangements with Google/Twitter/Fb/Instagram/big news outlets, it's essentially impossible to compete with it. 

Of course, other states can do better --- but the net result would likely remain the same.

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## Dexon

Clutch said:


> Here is the Clown Ukrainian President during his time when he was a comedian making fun not just of Turkey but of Islam.
> 
> Now he is begging for help from the same Turkey.
> 
> Irony....


WTF 
How the hell he became president?!

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## CrazyZ

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497601619503943683


Qatar better get their LNG plants at max output.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497552139391930369


----------



## AZMwi

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497550875094441984

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2 | Wow Wow:
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## Khanate

Wood said:


> Germany to send Ukraine weapons in historic shift on military aid
> 
> 
> Until Saturday, Germany had a longstanding practice of blocking lethal weapons from being sent to conflict zones.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.politico.eu




German weapons in the hands of (Good?) Nazis once more

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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497611918294630404

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1


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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497606112958373899

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497606124492804107


----------



## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497604283604381697

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## nangyale

Khanate said:


> German weapons will be in the hands of (Good?) Nazis once again
> 
> View attachment 818962


This is history being repeated as farce.

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## Enigma SIG

R Wing said:


> They lost the PR war the day they didn't fit into American hegemonic plans. US information domination is terrifyingly effective.
> 
> From CIA buyouts of intellectuals and media the world over to secret arrangements with Google/Twitter/Fb/Instagram/big news outlets, it's essentially impossible to compete with it.
> 
> Of course, other states can do better --- but the net result would likely remain the same.


American money bankrolls politicians, journalists, human right activists, lawyers all over Pakistan as well, it's an open secret.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497603505455910914


----------



## Enigma SIG

Dexon said:


> WTF
> How the hell he became president?!


CIA funneling money for his campaign.

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## Daniel808

Man, those Russian Assault in Southern Front really moving Fast

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497609823617228808

A Russian Colonels assessment weeks before the war


----------



## Daniel808

Problem solved 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497599969133539333

Looks Ukraine already lost Air-Superiority all over their country

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497579401533403136

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497556239416442891


----------



## RescueRanger

War never changes:

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## Rafi

According to my information Russia has met key objectives, collapse of front or fronts for the Ukrainian armed forces is imminent.

On a personal note, my missus is absolutely heartbroken, she is a proud Ukrainian but has Russian blood, has family in both Ukraine and Russia. 🙏 🤲 Pray for her and her family.

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## Beast

Russian shall try some daring airborne troops directly drop into Kiev near the parliament house. A swift takeover the capital will end all hope of resistant.

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## Daniel808

Another Ukrainian propagandist fake claim debunked


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497536700276518915

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## reflecthofgeismar

Inception-06 said:


> Why are so many Germans in PDF ?
> 
> It’s all about deployment tactics, crew training and transport - convoy protection discipline - orders. In this Video the convoy is vulnerable to small arms fire from any households.


I dunno, in Germany you have several forums too but this forum has attracted people from all the world!

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## Iron Shrappenel

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497589301596594180


If I were PA.. I would be taking notes.... Newer anti tank weapons seem pivotal in modern warfare .. considering lack if aps on Indian armored tanks ... Top attack missiles it is...
Imagine 1-2 launchers with 4 rounds at platoon level.... 
APS for current inventory of leading tanks *including * Al-Zarrars should be top priority..... 
Instead of developing Al-Khalid 2 we should invest in anti tank missiles.... 
We can work on an urban up armor kit for Al-Khalids with Turkey in line with Altay... And purchase some Altays specifically with Urban warfare in mind....

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## QWECXZ

Beast said:


> Russian shall try some daring airborne troops directly drop into Kiev near the parliament house. A swift takeover the capital will end all hope of resistant.


They will do that soon probably, after they have neutralized all AD systems protecting Kiev.
It seems that Kiev will fall soon. 48 hours more at most, I guess.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497613679843430401

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## zartosht

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497609823617228808
> 
> A Russian Colonels assessment weeks before the war



Slow down dude… i know your just trolling at this point, at least limit yourself to tolerable levels

And stop posting random twiiter posts of random people. 

“ i have a friend, he sais he will fight! That means ukraine will fight iwojima style to the last man” 

-random twitter woman

“Reports of half of russian forces shooting themselves in the left nut, to try and get out of this invasion”

-random tweet from some enemy countries intel/defense accounts


At least post something that has accompanying me evidence like pics or vids. Dont just spam random words

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Beast said:


> Russian shall try some daring airborne troops directly drop into Kiev near the parliament house. A swift takeover the capital will end all hope of resistant.



Lmao.. No brah.

You can kill 100 of presidents it won't solve anything but you gotta break resistance


----------



## The SC

Russia Doesn’t ‘Especially Need’ Diplomatic Ties with West, Says Ex-president Medvedev ​
https://english.aawsat.com/home/art...-need’-diplomatic-ties-west-says-ex-president

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## Enigma SIG

Beast said:


> Russian shall try some daring airborne troops directly drop into Kiev near the parliament house. A swift takeover the capital will end all hope of resistant.


Doesn't seem likely, they've put up AD systems in the city from the videos circulating online.

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## Daniel808

Beast said:


> Russian shall try some daring airborne troops directly drop into Kiev near the parliament house. A swift takeover the capital will end all hope of resistant.



They trying negotiate yesterday, but failed.

Next 24 hours they would all in

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497566347730907142

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## Rafi

QWECXZ said:


> They will do that soon probably, after they have neutralized all AD systems protecting Kiev.
> It seems that Kiev will fall soon. 48 hours more at most, I guess.



Defenders are exhausted, city is encircled, if Putin is ready to face international criticism.........nuff said.

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## Daniel808

Those Nazis wanabee really love do war crimes.

Chechen will revenge this for sure


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497560375650394118

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## F-22Raptor

zartosht said:


> Slow down dude… i know your just trolling at this point, at least limit yourself to tolerable levels
> 
> And stop posting random twiiter posts of random people.
> 
> “ i have a friend, he sais he will fight! That means ukraine will fight iwojima style to the last man”
> 
> -random twitter woman
> 
> “Reports of half of russian forces shooting themselves in the left nut, to try and get out of this invasion”
> 
> -random tweet from some enemy countries intel/defense accounts
> 
> 
> At least post something that has accompanying me evidence like pics or vids. Dont just spam random words




Steve Trimble is the lead editor of Aviation Week


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

Rafi said:


> According to my information Russia has met key objectives, collapse of front or fronts for the Ukrainian armed forces is imminent.
> 
> On a personal note, my missus is absolutely heartbroken, she is a proud Ukrainian but has Russian blood, has family in both Ukraine and Russia. 🙏 🤲 Pray for her and her family.


My prayers with your family.....

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## Daniel808

Ukraine National Guard in Chernobly defected to Russian side.

And now together with Russian, guarding the Nuclear Power Plant from Nazis wanabee.

Russian even give them permission to have their weapons and their ukraine flag.


Mark my word, western propaganda media wouldn’t tell this

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497615415895367680

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497606037561618433


----------



## Trango Towers

Khanate said:


> *Aggression, lies and illegal invasion...*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497576064578723850


Well shows they can't fight but when the master calls the run at the masters command. Now the master has abandoned them


----------



## Oublious

Ther are a lot of dead Russian soldiers video on telegram.


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497618071191621635


----------



## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497607630533107716
FVCK NAZI

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497581708731772932


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Oublious said:


> Ther are a lot of dead Russian soldiers video on telegram.



Can you send me link on my profile


----------



## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia still hasn't gained air superiority
> 
> Ukraine still maintains command and control
> 
> And half of Ukraine still hasn't been touched.
> 
> Disaster so far for Russia



LOL Just like Afghanistan was always under US/NATO and ANA control.

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## Daniel808

For next few hours, eyes on Mariupol guys 

Something big will happen

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## R Wing

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497600851656859656



Iraq has WMD: Western intel

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497487302125400064


----------



## Khanate

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497437740283092996



Daniel808 said:


> Problem solved
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497599969133539333
> 
> Looks Ukraine already lost Air-Superiority all over their country
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497579401533403136




So sad to watch this.




Rafi said:


> According to my information Russia has met key objectives, collapse of front or fronts for the Ukrainian armed forces is imminent.
> 
> On a personal note, my missus is absolutely heartbroken, she is a proud Ukrainian but has Russian blood, has family in both Ukraine and Russia. 🙏 🤲 Pray for her and her family.





My heart goes out to you, your missus, her family in Ukraine and really all of Ukraine.

Ukraine became a casualty in US war to settle score with Putin and Russia.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497551098479005696

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## Beast



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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497521286691815425


----------



## R Wing

Enigma SIG said:


> American money bankrolls politicians, journalists, human right activists, lawyers all over Pakistan as well, it's an open secret.



It's mostly our fault. Pakistan's standards for treason are probably the lowest in the world. The ISI and IB are decently aware of many politicians, media moguls, industrialists, etc., meeting with the 'third secretary of the US Consulate, Lahore' (for example) --- yet the max there will be is a file to blackmail the mofo to not go against the Army's interests ---- he can loot and plunder the country, it's all good. Insanity.

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## Khanate

*No occupation of Ukraine, Palestine and Kashmir*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496885762503159811

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## nufix

Dexon said:


> WTF
> How the hell he became president?!


By making jokes out of other people’s culture and religion? I mean Ukraine is a neo nazi state, of course you need to belittle others they consider subhuman to win elections.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497513942414934017


----------



## xuxu1457

Ukrainian army places equipment in residential areas


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497617029343416320


----------



## Paul2

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Many here believe Xi Jinping is too moderate and liberal. His inability to take advantage of the Ukraine situation or declare stronger support for Russia is a sign of weakness.
> 
> If it is true that Xi actually asked Putin to hold off the invasion until after the Olympics then he's a fool. What's a simple Olympics worth vs. the geopolitical ascension of a key ally and the punishment of an enemy regime? Ukraine stole billions from the Chinese people and if Chinese can't punish them directly then why not allow Putin to do so?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese aerospace company seeks US$4.5 billion from Ukraine government
> 
> 
> Chinese company seeks US$4.5 billion in compensation over deal scuppered on national security grounds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.scmp.com



Xi in Zhongnanhai is the last impediment for China becoming a superpower. I would say, he is not that much far apart from Putin, but far less ambitious.

Xi was born a king, he was in elite for most of his life. When he sees Putin, he sees him as a peon king. A puny lieutenant wanting something — almost the same as he treated Hu.

He sees no need for advancement: China has tons of money, US turned so meek that they phone him every time he farts, Russians ready to crawl in front of him, and the old reds are back in power. And the popular discontent with proletarians, and party eunichs stomped so hard, that it's not even a rounding error. He wants things to stay as they are. He has no need to play himself as a some superhuman leader out of insecurity like Putin.

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## Abid123

Daniel808 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497607630533107716
> FVCK NAZI
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497581708731772932


Our Chechen brothers will teach them a lesson.

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## Dalit

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497513942414934017



This means that the war won't stop anytime soon. What should I do with my shares? I am tempted to sell them.


----------



## Wergeland

doorstar said:


> one has Canadian, the other an amreekan IP though they both sound like immigrants of subcontinental/asian origins.



Been following this forum for almost 14 years.
This type of false flag accounts 9/10 times they are indian RSS Sanghis.

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## ZeEa5KPul



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## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497621158459363328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497619797000876033

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## The Eagle

Daniel808 said:


> Those Nazis wanabee really love do war crimes.
> 
> Chechen will revenge this for sure
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497560375650394118



Yesterday, Ukrainians killed killed their civilian by mistake who were carrying arms to fight against Russian troops. Why Pro Russians will be traveling in a car in midst of Ukrainian influenced area.

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## Shotgunner51

Daniel808 said:


> FVCK NAZI
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497581708731772932

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## Daniel808

ZeEa5KPul said:


>



Those Neo-NAZIS watch 300 movie too much 😂

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## MH.Yang

nang2 said:


> I think that is a common mistake made by nostalgic folks who overestimate the glory of the long-gone past. Yes, western colonists looted other countries relentlessly. But those countries weren't that rich, either. Chinese often make such a mistake, too, and boast how big the GDP was before the western countries invaded, while completely ignore the fact that Chinese productivity back then was already way behind the western countries.


To tell you the truth, I often doubt whether you are Chinese. Because you often make great mistakes in your understanding of China, but your Chinese level is beyond doubt. 

The Chinese did not forget the humiliation of the Opium War, but they would not boast about the economic strength of the Qing Dynasty, let alone blame the British for the Opium War. The Chinese hated the incompetence of the Qing government and their own weakness. 
The reason is simple: Although China opposes imperialism, China is very familiar with imperialism. China has a history of 5000 years, at least 4000 years. China itself is an imperialist country. China used to treat other countries with imperialism, so we certainly have no reason to condemn other countries for treating us with imperialism. 
We do not hate Britain, nor boast about the backward and incompetent Qing Dynasty. We hate our own weakness and regret our imperialist history.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497625449349980161

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## Daniel808

The Eagle said:


> Yesterday, Ukrainians killed killed their civilian by mistake who were carrying arms to fight against Russian troops. Why Pro Russians will be traveling in a car in midst of Ukrainian influenced area.



They said because that family using green SUV. Looks like russian military cars.

WTF, there even children in that family.

Vodka + Untrained civilians + Kalashnikov = Happy trigger

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## Wergeland

ZeEa5KPul said:


>



The textbook definition of keyboard warriors

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## Daniel808

Shotgunner51 said:


> View attachment 818985
> View attachment 818986



NED agents.

Lucky, HK finally get rid of those rats with New Security Law

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## ZeEa5KPul

Shotgunner51 said:


> View attachment 818985
> View attachment 818986


You know, I hated these people just on general principle, but this gives me some more stake in the Ukraine outcome. Now I'll take even more joy when Russia turns these Nazis into red mist.

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## Acetic Acid

The Eagle said:


> Yesterday, Ukrainians killed killed their civilian by mistake who were carrying arms to fight against Russian troops. Why Pro Russians will be traveling in a car in midst of Ukrainian influenced area.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497462738003578884




Shotgunner51 said:


> Here the heros of zeimny island after surrendering


Il-76 ghost of kiyv 3500 deaths of Russians 
So many lies from media

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## Paul2

Thinker3 said:


> Pakistanis are not against Ukraine, but many Pakistanis know that Ukraine is been used as a scapegoat by others. Ukraine was handed over to Russia to invade by US by saying US will not militarily involve if Russia invades Ukraine. I feel sorry for the Ukrainians but in time they will realise that they were been used.



Ukraine is Poland 2.0 basically, but probably can fight better


----------



## The Eagle

Daniel808 said:


> They said because that family using green SUV. Looks like russian military cars.
> 
> WTF, there even children in that family.
> 
> Vodka + Untrained civilians + Kalashnikov = Happy trigger


In both cases, one thing is proven that Ukrainians are shooters. I wouldn't be surprised this turns out to be blue on blue fratricide. Unfortunate.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497593122888560651


----------



## Salza



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## Patriot forever

Shotgunner51 said:


> View attachment 818985
> View attachment 818986



Looks like CIA is running this brigade.

Well now it should be clear who brought zakinsky in power, as was rightly pointed out it was never about Ukrainians all about NATO and nukes on Russian border. Pieces were put in place for years that's why Russia got aggressive.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497612613089439744


----------



## Khanate

*American media: Ukraine is civilised unlike Iraq and Afghanistan *


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497628236360024071

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497611172127858691


----------



## Invictus01

Mods are sleeping

This Raptor guy has literally been spamming this thread with absolutely no repercussions

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## Iron Shrappenel

Khanate said:


> *American media: Ukraine is civilised unlike Iraq and Afghanistan *
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497628236360024071


If this doesn't clarify the rest of the world what the mindset if these " freedom loving peacekeepers " is I don't know what will

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## Paul2

maverick1977 said:


> Tow 2 and Javelin wrecking havoc on Russian forces ?



They have at least 2 bombers flying + they have tons of MLRS like every ex-USSR military + Baykatars


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497631553123401728


----------



## F-22Raptor

Invictus01 said:


> Mods are sleeping
> 
> This Raptor guy has literally been spamming this thread with absolutely no repercussions



I have every right to report on this conflict just as you do.

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## The SC



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## Ali_Baba

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497593122888560651



USA / NATO is helping Ukraine with intelligence information - they have been very clear, open and transparent from the outset on this - in addition to actively supply MANPADS, Anti-Tanks and other weapons.

Will Russia take action against these NATO aerial assets if it believes they are directing Ukranian forces?

Put simply - it cannot afford to. If they do and take down just a single UAV or Intelligence gathering platform - NATO aerial assets will be free to take a shoot first against any russian aircraft that then come near these assets again - it will be a "shoot now and ask questions later" approach to Russian aerial assets that come anywhere near NATO assets.


----------



## Dariush the Great

ZeEa5KPul said:


>


Funny Ukro LGBT trolls

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## Ali_Baba

Invictus01 said:


> Mods are sleeping
> 
> This Raptor guy has literally been spamming this thread with absolutely no repercussions



I am more concerned that  Daniel808 is allowed to freely become the mouth piece of the Kremlin on this forum ???

But - i bite my lip and not comment on it directly as he has the right to report on this conflict just as we all do and to do so within the rules of this forum... How  Daniel808 consciousness can reason and support an invading army trying to occupy a demoncracy in europe - i will leave him with it ...

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## Wergeland

Khanate said:


> *American media: Ukraine is civilised unlike Iraq and Afghanistan *
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497628236360024071



Once a nazi always a nazi.

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## Windjammer

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497306436656934923

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## F-22Raptor

Ali_Baba said:


> I am more concerned that Daniel808 is allowed to freely become the mouth piece of the Kremlin on this forum ???




He doesn't like my posts because it doesn't fit his Pro-Russian, Anti-Western narrative, therefore wants me silenced.

You don't see me crying about the Pro-Russian supporters here.


----------



## Khanate

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497291803568918532



Windjammer said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497306436656934923




Ukrainian blowing himself up to resist invasion is *Heroic*

Iraqi blowing himself up to resist invasion is *Terrorist*

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## Clutch



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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497634661056622601
Wow Germany!

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## Clutch

Khanate said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497291803568918532



The Western hypocrisy is world renowned...

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497498424555491342

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## Genghis khan1

To be fair. Volodymyr Zelenskyy is a Jewish actor, who was carefully groomed and brought into power. He became President overnight.

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> 1/I am going to try to explain the irrational Russian Armed Forces behavior towards strategy, common thought, or even the chances repatriated SSO that are now POW try to murder a bunch of men with stars.
> 
> 2/Here's where I will start from. The Russian armed forces have never attempted anything like this. This isn't about what kind of war they're fighting it's about what they're capable of mustering.
> 
> 3/Secondly it seems the decision making structrues have low opinion in general of Ukraine and their fighting abilities and sort of an ideal that there's a willing subservience in Ukranians if they get to be part of Russia. Pure racism informing their decision making process.
> 
> 4/Thirdly battalion tactical groups are terrible units to support operations. They have overload the commander lack support and might not properly integrate with air or do adeqaute scouting as signals and recon are missing along with liasons with them.
> 
> 5/Fourthly without standing down even if parts of the UA Nat Guard, Police, Border Guard, Territorials and Army are defeated, UA regional commands can be autonomous for days and are vast structures, short of ordering their demobilization their removal is way too costly for RuMoD.
> 
> 6/And there's a lot of hidden corruption and misreporting that gets baked in into calculations but the higher you go up the chain as in a corporation, the more dimissive management is that it will be an issue. AKA Putin doesn't even remotely grasp how bad it is.
> 
> 7/Based on those 5 let me try to explain the situation now. Russian units aren't stopping fire or limiting use of their kalibrs and stand off strikes. This is all they could muster south. Kalibrs are limited by launch tubes, a bit over a hundred is what they had ready.
> 
> 8/We saw constant trains and movement over time moving Ru equipment and lots of aircraft being moved over to mustering points and at the end people. By then the supply was at its limit just keeping them warm and fed. They found out the hard way this was their logistical limit.
> 
> 9/What people sa wasn't that troops packed spare tanks for long drives. They were carying their fuel reserves on them. The few organic refueling trucks were not enough to make up an actual reserve or depot. They had one full compliment, some spares in one truck , thats it.
> 
> 10/This didn't seem that crazy in the Kremlin because the prevailing thought in the higher echelons and Putin's inner circle and the FSB was one highly dismissive of Ukraine highly hyped up by Russian army propaganda reporting. They missed that they were buying their own bullshit
> 
> 
> https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1497498201527521281.html
> 
> Twitter Thread cont.....



Very very poor logistical train evidently

Armour rushes forward, supply lag behind, and gets picked off by scout force/aviation acting on intel about main force

Armour gets spotted, aviation comes in, and instead bombs slower supply trucks

This is probably demoralising for the main force to hear that their ammo, and fuel is gone, but not as good as disabling the main force directly


----------



## American Pakistani

Thinker3 said:


> Pakistanis are not against Ukraine, but many Pakistanis know that Ukraine is been used as a scapegoat by others. Ukraine was handed over to Russia to invade by US by saying US will not militarily involve if Russia invades Ukraine. I feel sorry for the Ukrainians but in time they will realise that they were been used.


West is untrustworthy. Remember 71. Even 65 war was won by pakistan itself. Similarly in 80 pakistan was used to fight against mighty ussr and left in 90s with sanctions, in 2000's again used and then left with sanctions.

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## Clutch

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497634661056622601
> Wow Germany!



Germany has not left it's Nazi roots it seems like....





The Ukrainian Azov Battalion members are the ones who are attacking mosques and Muslims in Europe and New Zealand and Canada after their training in Ukraine....

Yet they say Pakistan is a breeding ground for terrorism.... Hypocrisy

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## Patriot forever

Windjammer said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497306436656934923



I saw the same picture ( or a video of the incident showing that drowned car) with claims Russia blew up the bridge and civilians drowned in that car. I think the claim also came from Ukrainian side.

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## Cryptic_Mafia

gambit said:


> Bring it up. Where?


this is Cuban missile crisis all over again! but this time its Nato thats moving the missile and not Russia/Ussr


Khanate said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497291803568918532
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian blowing himself up to resist invasion is *Heroic*
> 
> Iraqi blowing himself up to resist invasion is *Terrorist*


he is more "human" more "civilized" than Iraqis or Muslims as per west! 
its a spit on faces of all the angrez keh ghulam in Mulim world!

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## Clutch




----------



## Daniel808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497632293313253378

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497633132824117255

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## Microsoft

Khanate said:


> *American media: Ukraine is civilised unlike Iraq and Afghanistan *
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497628236360024071



and this is liberal media. 

What's the verdict @Saddam Hussein

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## Daniel808

Damn those Azov, Fvcking neo NAZI


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497630261281972225


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497574435280367622


----------



## Wergeland

Clutch said:


> The Ukrainian Azov Battalion members are the ones who are attacking mosques and Muslims in Europe and New Zealand and Canada after their training in Ukraine....



If this report is true then Russia should eleminate every single on of these nazi beasts. Send them to hell once and for all.

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## Daniel808

Azovs in Mariupol kill civilians and do not allow them to flee the city


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497618555306713097

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## Khanate

Clutch said:


> Germany has not left it's Nazi roots it seems like....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Ukrainian Azov Battalion members are the ones who are attacking mosques and Muslims in Europe and New Zealand and Canada after their training in Ukraine....
> 
> Yet they say Pakistan is a breeding ground for terrorism.... Hypocrisy




West's policy of *Good Nazi, Bad Nazi* 

Those weapons will not stay in Ukraine.

What if they find their way to European capitals in the hands of far-right terrorists?

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> 12/The limited supply meant it had to be a mad dash. BTGs were split into smaller sub units traveling on multiple roads to avoid congestion. When they met something they'd wait to coalesce or get into a fight. If the UA was suprised it would work.



And I thought that Beijing traffic was bad enough



F-22Raptor said:


> 20/What then was struck were major stationary objects, depots in main areas, radars, major command and control but again limited by number of reloads. So then Ru MoD started rolling the columns with heavy support of helicopters and planes ahead.



Did Ukrainians lose at least some planes due to missile attacks? Or they managed to rebase/sortie in the last minute?


----------



## Ali_Baba

Khanate said:


> West's policy of *Good Nazi, Bad Nazi*
> 
> Those weapons will not stay in Ukraine.
> 
> What if they find their way to European capitals in the hands of far-right terrorists?
> 
> View attachment 819002



People keep posting the same picture of 20 odd people and using it to suggest the whole of ukraine is the same? Is that it - 20 people?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497614458973306888
If true, could be disastrous for Russian logistics.


----------



## Wergeland

Khanate said:


> West's policy of *Good Nazi, Bad Nazi*
> 
> Those weapons will not stay in Ukraine.
> 
> What if they find their way to European capitals in the hands of far-right terrorists?
> 
> View attachment 819002


Sickening picture @gambit what you say about this? Do you as a freedom loving people condone these nazis?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497621078201585670


----------



## Oublious

Somebody should stop Russian troll daniel, or he should change the flag. The same video shared over and over with different stories.....

Ad Chinese member with the same twitter, turning in to spam....

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## RescueRanger

*February 26th, 2022 - What we know so far:

Kherson: *The battle for a strategic bridge in the city of southern Ukraine, was still raging Saturday after days of fighting, heavy shelling began at 0800 hrs GMT and around 1100 hours GMT the entire bridge was enveloped in thick heavy smoke.





_A large column of Russian tanks and armored vehicles were seen in the area_




_
Geolocation of the above image:_




********************************************************************************************************

*Nikolayev: *Ukrainian forces fired aerial warning shots to make people stay indoors. 

*Kyiv: *
A missile has hit an apartment building in Ukraine’s capital, no deaths were reported. Both sides blamed eachother for the missile strike.





*Ivankiv: *
Russian Pantsir-S2 (SA-22 Greyhound) Short-Range SAM system to Ivankiv, Kyiv Oblast
*




Ivankiv: 
A video circulating on social media showed Ukrainian Forces destroying an alleged Russian armored vehicle using an NLAW. Geolocation done by me. 



*
====================================================================================================
*--- I am working on the rest ---*

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## Khanate

Ali_Baba said:


> People keep posting the same picture of 20 odd people and using it to suggest the whole of ukraine is the same? Is that it - 20 people?




How will Germany, Britain and America ensure their weapons don't fall into Nazi hands?

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## Inception-06

Germany supplies 500 Stinger-Manpads and 1000 Panzerfausts - anti tank weapons to Ukraine.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497639989961805826

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## jamal18

Patriot forever said:


> Looks like CIA is running this brigade.
> 
> Well now it should be clear who brought zakinsky in power, as was rightly pointed out it was never about Ukrainians all about NATO and nukes on Russian border. Pieces were put in place for years that's why Russia got aggressive.


There is a well known phone recording of US government deciding who will be the next prime minister of Ukraine, after the 'colour revolution'.

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497614458973306888
> If true, could be disastrous for Russian logistics.



Wars are won or lost on logistics and the supply of so many RPG's, Manpads and anti-tank weapons are the best way for Ukraine to defend herself against this Russian invasion.

Thin out Russian offensive lines and then wear down the rear of the attacking lines. The Russians have taken to flying helicopters to try and protect their supply lines which is where the MANPADs come in useful.

This is starting the have the feel of the 'Battle of the Bulge' about it. Russians are running out of resources to maintain their blitzkrieg attack. Russian have a clock on how fast they are running down the resources they had staged and allocated for this attack and they will have to call time on it within a few days either way.



Khanate said:


> How will Germany, Britain and America ensure their weapons don't fall into Nazi hands?



What Nazi's? Where are they ? How many are there ?? Please share ! I am keen to know.


----------



## RescueRanger

Inception-06 said:


> Germany supplies 500 Stinger and 1000 Panzerfausts to Ukraine.



From its own stockpile, the German government will send 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 Stinger anti-aircraft defense systems to Ukraine. The government has also authorized the Netherlands to send Ukraine 400 rocket-propelled grenade launchers.

Source: https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-war-russia-germany-still-blocking-arms-supplies/

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## Khanate

Ali_Baba said:


> What Nazi's? Where are they ? How many are there ?? Please share ! I am keen to know.



These Nazis 👇











These Nazis have well-established links with far-right extremists operating in European capitals.

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## Inception-06

How the Russians will react to this huge arms supplies by the NATO ?


----------



## jamal18

Khanate said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497291803568918532
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian blowing himself up to resist invasion is *Heroic*
> 
> Iraqi blowing himself up to resist invasion is *Terrorist*


You don't understand the difference.
The Russians are facing a heroic people fighting for freedom.
The Americans were facing evil terrorists.

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## maverick1977

Ali_Baba said:


> USA / NATO is helping Ukraine with intelligence information - they have been very clear, open and transparent from the outset on this - in addition to actively supply MANPADS, Anti-Tanks and other weapons.
> 
> Will Russia take action against these NATO aerial assets if it believes they are directing Ukranian forces?
> 
> Put simply - it cannot afford to. If they do and take down just a single UAV or Intelligence gathering platform - NATO aerial assets will be free to take a shoot first against any russian aircraft that then come near these assets again - it will be a "shoot now and ask questions later" approach to Russian aerial assets that come anywhere near NATO assets.




mostly satellite feeds.. no NATO UAV inside Ukraine


----------



## jamal18

Inception-06 said:


> How the Russians will react to this huge arms supplies by the NATO ?


Capture them?

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## Ali_Baba

Khanate said:


> These Nazis 👇
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These Nazis have well-established links with far-right extremists operating in European capitals.



I have seen videos of more than that number in the USA ... are the Americans also Nazi's by your definition ? 

Is the "rest" of Europe occupied in Nazi's aswell ?

Should i be worried about them in the UK aswell when i do the Tesco run for my shop ?


----------



## maverick1977

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497634661056622601
> Wow Germany!




This is huge escalation… It will not go well for Germany i am afraid

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## nufix

Ali_Baba said:


> People keep posting the same picture of 20 odd people and using it to suggest the whole of ukraine is the same? Is that it - 20 people?



the 20 people are part of groups that were later recognized as part of the ukrainian national guard. Neither the ukrainian government nor the people seemed to mind. Perhaps they are not as Nazi as Azov groups are, but their minds are at least alligned.


----------



## Pappa Alpha

Inception-06 said:


> How the Russians will react to this huge arms supplies by the NATO ?


They are shooting themselves in the foot. This will further destabilize the region for many years. A quick regime change is in everyone's interest.

Russians are not going to accept defeat at their doorstep and these actions may cause more collateral damage.

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## khansaheeb

dBSPL said:


> BREAKING — Italy is ready to support the disconnection of Russia from SWIFT and is ready to provide military assistance — Zelensky
> 
> Swift shutdown coming...


Hope they do it swiftly!


----------



## arjunk

FuturePAF said:


> Looks like DCS


That is ARMA 3 and this is an A-10 which neither side operates anyway.


----------



## RescueRanger

Ali_Baba said:


> I have seen videos of more than that number in the USA ... are the Americans also Nazi's by your definition ?
> 
> Is the "rest" of Europe occupied in Nazi's aswell ?
> 
> Should i be worried about them in the UK aswell when i do the Tesco run for my shop ?


Nazi's are Nazi's regardless of their geographic location.

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## Daniel808

Kiev in chaos at this moment


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497642637922295810

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497446131021664258

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## Wergeland

Ali_Baba said:


> I have seen videos of more than that number in the USA ... are the Americans also Nazi's by your definition ?
> 
> Is the "rest" of Europe occupied in Nazi's aswell ?
> 
> Should i be worried about them in the UK aswell when i do the Tesco run for my shop ?


Unfortunately a section of Americans are yes. How else do you think Donald Trump won the vote? 

USA was a de-facto apartheid nation well into the 1960s.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497628875899260929


----------



## Clutch

*The intimidation and attack against the Tuks and Islam...*
.





.
.


*The response from the Chechens*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497584012084199425




.
.
.
*The result *
.

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## Mujahid Memon

lastofthepatriots said:


> https://imgur.com/a/sHjUZxw
> 
> 
> They ask do you have momma and papa. He say yes. They say do you have anything to say to them. He say we didn’t want to fight, but they sent us.
> 
> 
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/XR3jBlN
> 
> 
> They ask do you have momma and papa. He say yes. They say do you have anything to say to them. He say I love you to parents. They ask are you ready to fight against ruski with us? He say yes.


Even Abhinandan looked more professional

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## Daniel808

Battle of Mariupol just started guys.

Time to send those NAZI wanabee to the hell  Happy hunting boys


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497630509035360258

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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497628875899260929


Goes back to my statement, all these uncontrolled weapons flooding the country are 110% going to destabilize the region.

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## pkuser2k12



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## RescueRanger

Mujahid Memon said:


> Even Abhinandan looked more professional


It's not their fault, most of these men are very young in service and clearly "green".


----------



## Suriya

When life gives u lemons make lemonade. 

This is what Sanatan Dharma has taught these ISKCON Hindu devotees in Kiev. And they r applying what they have learnt in these difficult times. Our ISKCON temples all over Ukraine is ready to serve those in need. U r welcome at our temples.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497525575350554626

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497231393784533002














Russia-Ukraine crisis: ISKCON temples in Ukraine open doors for stranded people


To find the nearest temples around you in Ukraine, please visit:https://centres.iskcon.org/centre-region/ukraine/




www.dnaindia.com

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## Pappa Alpha

Mujahid Memon said:


> Even Abhinandan looked more professional


Abinandon was treated professionally. God knows what they are being subjected to behind camera.

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## Dalit

Patriot forever said:


> Looks like CIA is running this brigade.
> 
> Well now it should be clear who brought zakinsky in power, as was rightly pointed out it was never about Ukrainians all about NATO and nukes on Russian border. Pieces were put in place for years that's why Russia got aggressive.



The CIA has been doing such shit for decades all over the world. Just have a good look at Latin America.

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## RescueRanger

LOL just watched the White House press conference with Mr. Personality Biden. *What a train wreck!



*

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## Dalit

Ali_Baba said:


> I am more concerned that  Daniel808 is allowed to freely become the mouth piece of the Kremlin on this forum ???
> 
> But - i bite my lip and not comment on it directly as he has the right to report on this conflict just as we all do and to do so within the rules of this forum... How  Daniel808 consciousness can reason and support an invading army trying to occupy a demoncracy in europe - i will leave him with it ...



I am very concerned that Americans are spewing CIA nonsense on this forum.

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## ZeEa5KPul

Dalit said:


> I am very concerned that Americans are spewing CIA nonsense on this forum.


For real, there's a disturbingly high amount of Western bootlickers in this thread.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497632487513546757


----------



## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497634661056622601
> Wow Germany!



LOL You think Ukraine can win a war against Russia? You can send another consignment of a million. Zero impact.


----------



## Clutch

RescueRanger said:


> LOL just watched the White House press conference with Mr. Personality Biden. *What a train wreck!
> View attachment 819017
> *




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496547564862246918
Sloppy Joe. Let's go Brandon!

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## Dalit

ZeEa5KPul said:


> For real, there's a disturbingly high amount of Western bootlickers in this thread.



These bootlickers got their rear kicked in Afghanistan. I still remember how the bootlickers vanished as guests in many topics. Today the bootlickers are excited once again. Just wait until Russia mops the floor with US/NATO sponsored stooges in Ukraine. Everyone will continue with their daily lives as if nothing happened.

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## arjunk

RescueRanger said:


> The US is very good at human terrain operations, remember even CENTCOM URDU had an account on PDF.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CENTCOM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


@CENTCOM Please give eff solas saaar...

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## Viet

Dalit said:


> LOL You think Ukraine can win a war against Russia? You can send another consignment of a million. Zero impact.


Let’s wait. The Russian assault is stalling. Germany gives $2 billion in cash, Ukraine can hold on. I hope Germany sends Leopard battle tanks for house to house fightings.

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## RescueRanger

So Ukraine has now entered into a curfew starting at 20:00 hours local time and ending at 08:00 hours on Monday. Just to show how difficult life is right now for ordinary people. Meanwhile Russians keep pouring in men and hardware into the country.

How long can this fatal waltz last?

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## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> LOL You think Ukraine can win a war against Russia? You can send another consignment of a million. Zero impact.




I've said from the beginning that Russia has superior forces. I've never predicted a Ukrainian victory. This is about making it as painful as possible for Putin. Eventually you reach unacceptable losses. That's another 1,400 antitank weapons and 700 Stingers from the Dutch and Germans. And we know the US is flowing these same weapons into Ukraine. Russia can't hold forever, they've already deployed over 50% of their forces. It becomes to costly.

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## Dalit

Clutch said:


> Germany has not left it's Nazi roots it seems like....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Ukrainian Azov Battalion members are the ones who are attacking mosques and Muslims in Europe and New Zealand and Canada after their training in Ukraine....
> 
> Yet they say Pakistan is a breeding ground for terrorism.... Hypocrisy



It is all falling apart for the West. All their hypocrisy and double dealing is coming to a swift end. One defeat after another. The Afghan tears haven't dried and we are into another conflict where the Western powers are yet again on the losing side.



Viet said:


> Let’s wait. The Russian assault is stalling. Germany gives $2 billion in cash, Ukraine can hold on. I hope Germany sends Leopard battle tanks for house to house fightings.



LOL just like ANA was supposed to mop the floor with the Taliban. Give it a break. No contest. Russia is a behemoth and has humongous advantage in every possible way. Even if entire West combined their assistance for Ukraine the Russians would still mop the floor. There are separatist Ukrainians who could take over after the US/NATO brigade has been defeated.

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## HaMoTZeMaS

Dalit said:


> LOL You think Ukraine can win a war against Russia? You can send another consignment of a million. Zero impact.


This makes me feel people are too influenced by video games...
They believe like distributing arms and ammo is going to have instantaneous impact on the outcome of events 

such a crap and wishful thoughts 

i feel the west is laughing at and trolling Ukrainians by giving such statements

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497650174935642116

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497643996008624135


----------



## RescueRanger

Zelenskyy welcomes peace talks proposals in video message​Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said he welcomed proposals by Turkey and Azerbaijan to hold peace talks with Russia. He also singled out his conversation with Italy's Prime Minister Mario Draghi as key to agreements for more international support to Ukraine.

"We will fight as long as it takes to liberate the country," Mr Zelenskyy said in a short video message.

*He added his country was currently lacking oil and oil products.

^ And there is the rub!*

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## Dalit

HaMoTZeMaS said:


> This makes me feel people are too influenced by video games...
> They believe like distributing arms and ammo is going to have instantaneous impact on the outcome of events
> 
> such a crap and wishful thoughts
> 
> i feel the west is laughing at and trolling Ukrainians by giving such statements



It will be the Kurdish and Afghan situation all over again. Ukrainians are already fleeing their country and Western nations are providing refuge. We know where this is heading.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> LOL You think Ukraine can win a war against Russia? You can send another consignment of a million. Zero impact.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497650174935642116

Ya these weapons are having no impact. None, zero, because Dalit on PDF said so.


----------



## Khanate

Microsoft said:


> and this is liberal media.
> 
> What's the verdict @Saddam Hussein





Cryptic_Mafia said:


> he is more "human" more "civilized" than Iraqis or Muslims as per west!
> its a spit on faces of all the angrez keh ghulam in Mulim world!




"Relatively civilized, relatively European" 








American media during invasion of Iraq:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497120974168285197

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## FairAndUnbiased

F-22Raptor said:


> I've said from the beginning that Russia has superior forces. I've never predicted a Ukrainian victory. This is about making it as painful as possible for Putin. Eventually you reach unacceptable losses. That's another 1,400 antitank weapons and 700 Stingers from the Dutch and Germans. And we know the US is flowing these same weapons into Ukraine. Russia can't hold forever, they've already deployed over 50% of their forces. It becomes to costly.



Sure, that might happen. But they'd have already annexed Ukraine east of the Dnieper, taken the entire coast and turned remaining West Ukraine into an Afghanistan style basket case with capital in Lviv since they won't be keeping Kiev anymore.

That'd be a massive defeat for the west.

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## nufix

Viet said:


> Let’s wait. The Russian assault is stalling. Germany gives $2 billion in cash, Ukraine can hold on. I hope Germany sends Leopard battle tanks for house to house fightings.



House to house fighting with MBT??

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497651208676331521


----------



## The Lost Brother

Tamil Eelam sworn allegiance to Ukraine. Being a Tamil I dont like it but we are against oppression.. I don't want Putin to fail but my heart goes to people of Ukraine,


----------



## Viet

Dalit said:


> It is all falling apart for the West. All their hypocrisy and double dealing is coming to a swift end. One defeat after another. The Afghan tears haven't dried and we are into another conflict where the Western powers are yet again on the losing side.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL just like ANA was supposed to mop the floor with the Taliban. Give it a break. No contest. Russia is a behemoth and has humongous advantage in every possible way. Even if entire West combined their assistance for Ukraine the Russians would still mop the floor. There are separatist Ukrainians who could take over after the US/NATO brigade has been defeated.


Let’s wait. There are reports great parts of Russia invasion army refuse to fight. They don’t want to kill their ethnic brothers. Putin now sends in fanatic religious fighters from Grosny.

You underestimate Germany war machine capacity. They once fought US, USSR, UK and the rest. Germany now openly supports Ukraine.

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## FairAndUnbiased

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497651208676331521



This is going to be more painful for the copium smokers than Fall of Kabul.

ANA had 3 types of soldiers:

1. 1/3 who were high all the time
2. 1/3 who were already in the Taliban
3. 1/3 who only exist on paper for corruption purposes

They held out for... 10 weeks, against rag tag Taliban armed with pickups and AK-47s.

Is Ukraine gonna fare better than Afghan regime? This is day 3 and people already talking about fall of Kiev.

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## RescueRanger

Khanate said:


> "Relatively civilized, relatively European"
> 
> View attachment 819015


This, 100% this, I cringe every time I hear News Presenters at pains to diplomatically refer to Kyiv as a modern city and how it traumatizing it would be to see bombing and large scale combat without devastating damage. This of course is a thinly veiled dig at the "uncivilized" and backwards cities that were okay to be bombed to shit.

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## The Lost Brother

Why muslim brothers are making it a muslim vs west fight ? Are not chechens tortured by Russians ? Ukrainian people does not have to do anything with religion. They are defending themselves against aggressor which is unfortunately Russia.

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## Wergeland

F-22Raptor said:


> Ya these weapons are having no impact. None, zero, because Dalit on PDF said so.



NATO provided much more than that in Afghanistan for over 20 years. It took Taliban 2 months to oust the NATO-supported Army and Government out of power.

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## lastofthepatriots

Ruski special forces captured

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## RescueRanger

Wergeland said:


> NATO provided much more than that in Afghanistan for over 20 years. It took Taliban 2 months to oust the NATO-supported Army and Government out of power.


To be honest with you, I don't agree with optics on social media, but the loss of this equipment may be peanuts for a country like Russia, but it's still bad optics, demoralizing his soldiers, damages Putin's support base (working as intended) and watching Russian men die for something that is still unclear is just painful to watch, it's like reliving the 1980's all over, and yes I am that old to remember that period in time.

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## The Lost Brother

West has trapped Russia very well and bear in three days has failed miserably to acquire 11000 KM country.They are still fighting on outskirts. Firing missiles here and there is showing desperation of Putin.


----------



## Cryptic_Mafia

RescueRanger said:


> This, 100% this, I cringe every time I hear News Presenters at pains to diplomatically refer to Kyiv as a modern city and how it traumatizing it would be to see bombing and large scale combat without devastating damage. This of course is a thinly veiled dig at the "uncivilized" and backwards cities that were okay to be bombed to shit.


i hope putin shows middle finger to the west and conquer ukraine but i also hope there is minimum loss of life! west is not civilized its hypocrite and consider non white Muslims as cockroaches!


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

Khanate said:


> "Relatively civilized, relatively European"
> 
> View attachment 819015
> 
> 
> 
> American media during invasion of Iraq:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497120974168285197


The fact that a black guy put more make up on to look even more black .....

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## XVIV

Pantsirs-S1s moved in near Kiev reportedly.


----------



## The Lost Brother

lastofthepatriots said:


> Ruski special forces captured



Not good for @Daniel808 and other Chinese fanboys.


----------



## F-22Raptor

XVIV said:


> Pantsirs-S1s moved in near Kiev reportedly.




Yikes, the Russians better hope the Pantsirs perform better than they have in other campaigns.


----------



## Iñigo

When 1000 shells a day were falling on the Russians in the Don ... what was the Russian army to do? wait seven more years?

Ukraine was made by the Bolsheviks, if the Polish-Ukrainian fanatics don't like Ukraine because it is full of Russian-Ukrainians ... What's the point of keeping the fiction called "Ukraine" which is a tool in the hands of Washington.

Why does Russia have to allow itself to be cornered by NATO while at the same time having to put up with watching the Russians in the Don being shelled

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## RescueRanger

BBC World Service Radio: Calls from UK MP's to expel the Russian Ambassador from London.

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## nufix

The Lost Brother said:


> Not good for @Daniel808 and other Chinese fanboys.



Joined not even 10 minutes ago just to put this comment? So many new troll accounts in such a short time.

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## Bilal.

Iron Shrappenel said:


> The fact that a black guy put more make up on to look even more black .....


And now he’s crying BLM.

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## RescueRanger

Personally I feel cornering Russia into a corner so quickly may prove counterproductive in the end.

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## mingle

Acetic Acid said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497462738003578884
> 
> 
> 
> Il-76 ghost of kiyv 3500 deaths of Russians
> So many lies from media


Il76 was big lie sad this war is just like Afghanistan fighting on twitter and other media no one know what Russian objectives are U watch RT it shows otherwise so truth is somewhere in between but Ukrainain claims are similar like Ghani Govt claims

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## Khanate

Clutch said:


> *The intimidation and attack against the Tuks and Islam...*
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> .
> 
> 
> *The response from the Chechens*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497584012084199425
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> .
> .
> *The result *
> .




Zelensky translated his jokes on Turks, Islam and Muslims into policy

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## Clutch




----------



## Viet

nufix said:


> House to house fighting with MBT??


Will be house to house bitter fight in Kiew. Zelinski is Putin’s enemy number 1. for the assault the Russians deploy T72 tanks.


----------



## The Lost Brother

nufix said:


> Joined not even 10 minutes ago just to put this comment? So many new troll accounts in such a short time.



You using multiple accounts eh ?


----------



## Iñigo



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## Clutch

Iñigo said:


> When 1000 shells a day were falling on the Russians in the Don ... what was the Russian army to do? wait seven more years?
> 
> Ukraine was made by the Bolsheviks, if the Polish-Ukrainian fanatics don't like Ukraine because it is full of Russian-Ukrainians ... What's the point of keeping the fiction called "Ukraine" which is a tool in the hands of Washington.
> 
> Why does Russia have to allow itself to be cornered by NATO while at the same time having to put up with watching the Russians in the Don being shelled




The massacre of ethnic Russians in the Donbass region is something that is ignored by the Western Alliance because of their entrenched historic Russia-phobia. 

That's the truth that they will never admit.

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## RealNapster

Rafi said:


> On a personal note, my missus is absolutely heartbroken, she is a proud Ukrainian but has Russian blood, has family in both Ukraine and Russia. 🙏 🤲 Pray for her and her family.

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## Ali_Baba

XVIV said:


> Pantsirs-S1s moved in near Kiev reportedly.



It does seem to suggest that Ukraine has enough UAV/UCAVs to worry them ? Otherwise why bother? Also suggests that Russia has not been able to knock out the Ukranian airforce either ?


----------



## _Nabil_

The Lost Brother said:


> Why muslim brothers are making it a muslim vs west fight ? Are not chechens tortured by Russians ? Ukrainian people does not have to do anything with religion. They are defending themselves against aggressor which is unfortunately Russia.


The Ukrainian Zio regime was the first one to recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israhell, isn't enough for you?

Ukraine was the third contingency in the war against Irak, isn't enough for you?

Ukrainian Zio President, mocking Islam and Muslim when doing comic shows, isn't enough for you?

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## Ali_Baba

Clutch said:


>



Looks like the Manpad exploded just infront of the aircraft by units of feet - that pilot is lucky to get away with his life on that missile strike.


----------



## lastofthepatriots

RescueRanger said:


> Personally I feel cornering Russia into a corner so quickly may prove counterproductive in the end.



Ruskis are fighting using 3rd gen and mix of 5th gen warfare. Meanwhile Ukrainians are using 4th gen and 5th gen warefare.

Russians were playing the long game well, slowly supporting friendly regions but like I said they panicked under pressure and climaxed early. No matter how many Ukrainians they kill at this point, none of their objectives will be met.


----------



## Khanate

Ali_Baba said:


> I have seen videos of more than that number in the USA ... are the Americans also Nazi's by your definition ?
> 
> Is the "rest" of Europe occupied in Nazi's aswell ?
> 
> Should i be worried about them in the UK aswell when i do the Tesco run for my shop ?




First, don't be triggered.

Do USA and Britain have a Nazi battalion like Ukraine's Azov battalion?

Azov Nazis recruit openly in Ukraine and serve in Ukraine's police force, military and government.

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## The Lost Brother

Heard that Ukraine has Turkish UAV's, What destruction has been caused by those UAV's so far ?Any news on it.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497647910305120259


----------



## QWECXZ

_Nabil_ said:


> The Ukrainian Zio regime was the first one to recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israhell, isn't enough for you?
> 
> Ukraine was the third contingency in the war against Irak, isn't enough for you?
> 
> Ukrainian Zio President, mocking Islam and Muslim when doing comic shows, isn't enough for you?


I think that was Poland. Ukraine didn't really take part in the war against Iraq, or did they?

Yeah, there's no doubt that the current president of Ukraine is not a friend of Muslims or Islamic countries. And Russia clearly has the upper moral hand.



The Lost Brother said:


> Heard that Ukraine has Turkish UAV's, What destruction has been caused by those UAV's so far ?Any news on it.


If memory serves me well, they purchased 6 Bayraktars from Turkey. Russia claims they have shot down 5 of them.

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## Khanate

*Squad member missing:*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497147943387758594

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## Clutch

Ali_Baba said:


> Looks like the Manpad exploded just infront of the aircraft by units of feet - that pilot is lucky to get away with his life on that missile strike.



Yes it was a close call. I have noticed that the Russians are doing a lot of low altitude flying and attacks. Is it that they do not have long range precision bombs in large supply?.

It puts their jets at risk from found manpad fire. 

It's interesting, because of you look at most Western attacks on Muslim countries they have been flying much higher even though most of those impoverished and militarily inferior country's do not even have access to low altitude SAMs.

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## lastofthepatriots

Khanate said:


> First, don't be triggered.
> 
> Do USA and Britain have a Nazi battalion like Ukraine's Azov battalion?
> 
> Azov Nazis recruit openly in Ukraine and serve in Ukraine's police force, military and government.



There are only 300 or so ‘nazis’ in Azov out of thousands. They behave like gangsters and blackmail politicians for money. They are also funded by externals powers, but it’s not fair to say all of Azov are ‘Nazis’.

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## The Lost Brother

_Nabil_ said:


> The Ukrainian Zio regime was the first one to recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israhell, isn't enough for you?
> 
> Ukraine was the third contingency in the war against Irak, isn't enough for you?
> 
> Ukrainian Zio President, mocking Islam and Muslim when doing comic shows, isn't enough for you?



Ain't you the muslims sleeping with West & Israel, is not it enough for you ?

Russia mascaraed your chechen brothers and susters, is not it enough for you ?

Being a mercenary force in every fight where you are paid and die there make it a cause, is not it enough for you to understand ?

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## RescueRanger

lastofthepatriots said:


> Ruskis are fighting using 3rd gen and mix of 5th gen warfare. Meanwhile Ukrainians are using 4th gen and 5th gen warefare.
> 
> Russians were playing the long game well, slowly supporting friendly regions but like I said they panicked under pressure and climaxed early. No matter how many Ukrainians they kill at this point, none of their objectives will be met.


That is not what I am worried about, If Russia feels it's endgame target is SNAFU it will go for alternative options and that is what is concerning. Non Lethal worst case scenario = Annexation of Donetsk and Luhansk with access to the black sea:






*The lethal option is not even worth thinking about. *

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## Khanate

lastofthepatriots said:


> There are only 300 or so ‘nazis’ in Azov out of thousands. They behave like gangsters and blackmail politicians for money. They are also funded by externals powers, but it’s not fair to say all of Azov are ‘Nazis’.




So there are *Good Nazi, Bad Nazi*.

Would you say the same about ISIS members?

Where are the drone strikes on Azov nazis?


----------



## Clutch



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## lastofthepatriots

QWECXZ said:


> I think that was Poland. Ukraine didn't really take part in the war against Iraq, or did they?
> 
> Yeah, there's no doubt that the current president of Ukraine is not a friend of Muslims or Islamic countries. And Russia clearly has the upper moral hand.
> 
> 
> If memory serves me well, they purchased 6 Bayraktars from Turkey. Russia claims they have shot down 5 of them.



Ukrainians are pretty neutral towards Muslims in general. In the Balkans their soldiers looked the other way when Bosnians were provided anti tank missiles by Pakistan. They weren’t concerned with all that Slavic brotherhood with the Serbs.

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## 1ndy

_Nabil_ said:


> The Ukrainian Zio regime was the first one to recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israhell, isn't enough for you?
> 
> Ukraine was the third contingency in the war against Irak, isn't enough for you?
> 
> Ukrainian Zio President, mocking Islam and Muslim when doing comic shows, isn't enough for you?


Pakistan-Ukraine defense relations?

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## _Nabil_

QWECXZ said:


> I think that was Poland. Ukraine didn't really take part in the war against Iraq, or did they?
> 
> Yeah, there's no doubt that the current president of Ukraine is not a friend of Muslims or Islamic countries. And Russia clearly has the upper moral hand.
> 
> 
> If memory serves me well, they purchased 6 Bayraktars from Turkey. Russia claims they have shot down 5 of them.


Poland sent 200, Ukraine 1700

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## QWECXZ

lastofthepatriots said:


> Ukrainians are pretty neutral towards Muslims in general. In the Balkans their soldiers looked the other way when Bosnians were provided anti tank missiles by Pakistan. They weren’t concerned with all that Slavic brotherhood with the Serbs.


I was very specifically talking about their president. No, their president is not neutral towards Muslims at all.

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## RescueRanger

Khanate said:


> So there are *Good Nazi, Bad Nazi*.
> 
> Would you say the same about ISIS members?
> 
> Where are the drone strikes on Azov nazis?



Not all Azov's are Ukrainian Neo-Nazi's but all Ukrainian Neo-Nazi's are Azov's. 
F'ing semantics.* Just call a spade a spade! *

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## Mujahid Memon

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497643209429856263

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497638225200001029


----------



## lastofthepatriots

Khanate said:


> So there are *Good Nazi, Bad Nazi*.
> 
> Would you say the same about ISIS members?
> 
> Where are the drone strikes on Azov nazis?



Azov are nationalists with a small segment of ‘nazis’ as you say. Ironically those ‘nazis’ are provided weaponry from Israel. 

Truth is stranger than fiction.


----------



## Ali_Baba

No fuel and lost behind enemy lines: How Russia's mighty army got bogged down in Ukraine​








No fuel and lost behind enemy lines: How Russia's mighty army got bogged down in Ukraine


Casualty numbers thought to be higher than Russia had expected with hundreds of tanks and other armoured vehicles destroyed




www.telegraph.co.uk

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## Wergeland

lastofthepatriots said:


> There are only 300 or so ‘nazis’ in Azov out of thousands. They behave like gangsters and blackmail politicians for money. They are also funded by externals powers, but it’s not fair to say all of Azov are ‘Nazis’.



Thats a lot of inside information about them.
Looking from the pictures all i see i like nazi …nazi..nazi..nazinazi… Nuremberg is awaiting them , if theyre lucky that is.

Last time Russians entered Germany they teached them a leasson for generation… or so the Russians hoped. May be nazis today are in dire need of second education lesson.

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## kingQamaR

The only acceptable and legal agreement possible now would be for putin to pull his forces back into his own country, and for Ukraine to bill him for the damage done to their country in this unprovoked attack.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497662118673502214

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497661635514834961

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## khansaheeb

pkuser2k12 said:


>


Shortage of violinists , if you know how to play a sad tune on a violin please head to Ukraine.

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## Ali_Baba

Clutch said:


> Yes it was a close call. I have noticed that the Russians are doing a lot of low altitude flying and attacks. Is it that they do not have long range precision bombs in large supply?.
> 
> It puts their jets at risk from found manpad fire.
> 
> It's interesting, because of you look at most Western attacks on Muslim countries they have been flying much higher even though most of those impoverished and militarily inferior country's do not even have access to low altitude SAMs.



The number of cruise missile attacks have dropped to nothing right now - does look like the Russians have run out of cruise missiles.

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## RescueRanger

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497662118673502214
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497661635514834961


Did that tank cook off?


----------



## Kraetoz

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497647910305120259


Money money money. Sanctions sanctions sanctions.

Cry me a river.

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## lastofthepatriots

RescueRanger said:


> Not all Azov's are Ukrainian Neo-Nazi's but all Ukrainian Neo-Nazi's are Azov's.
> F'ing semantics.* Just call a spade a spade! *



I feel like a lot of misconceptions that people have can be cleared by reading history of organizations and nations. I know not everyone has the time or the interest, but it helps in making sense out of situations.

For example, a week or so ago Pakistanis on pdf were in an uproar about Iran supporting BLF. But if you you read the history of BLF they’ve conducted more attacks on the Iranians than the Pakistanis by a long shot. Plus they were supported heavily by Iraqi Saddam and the soviets. History does provide some clearance to the motivations and actions of groups and nations.

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## kingQamaR

Even if Putin is successful in overthrowing Ukraine, holding on an keeping a lid on the place, is going to be very messy and expensive.

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## Primus

Clutch said:


>


Looks like the Su25 was able to get its rockets off and complete its attack. Literally shrug off a MANPAD gawd damn

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## khansaheeb

>


dBSPL said:


> *Zelensky: "Whoever wants to help us defend Ukraine can come to our country. We will give them weapons."*


If you got weapons then why don't you use them yourselves?

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## kingQamaR

2 days yes, but Russia has been years planning this and massing a huge force on the borders. Putin would have assumed that with all the hardware and men thrown at Ukraine on multiple fronts that he would would have a swift victory and regime change. As the days pass and the losses mount for Russia, diplomacy will become more appealing for them. Let's hope they start talking rather than get desperate and use less discriminate methods. If they start committing large atrocities against civilians then I can't see the west standing by anymore.

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## Khanate

Iron Shrappenel said:


> The fact that a black guy put more make up on to look even more black .....




That is Trevor Noah.

He got the idea from Trudeau. 😁

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## Ali_Baba

Russia Fails to capture Melitopol.









Boris Johnson news – live: PM says Putin will ‘double down’ on invasion


Live updates from Westminster




www.independent.co.uk

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## jamal18

I believe that a US government report puts the figure as 20%.

These _are _Nazis. However the rest will have similar views.

There was a tv report of a 'heroic' Ukrainian woman training as a sniper. Somebody checked her twitter account. Apparently the greatest threat to Europe is Black people. 

Needless to say, the tv report didn't mention that.

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## American Pakistani

Feeling sorry for Ukraine who failed to analyze and is now victim of west false promises just like pakistan. Fortunately for Pakistan it is almost as stronger compare to its enemy India.

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## nufix

Viet said:


> Will be house to house bitter fight in Kiew. Zelinski is Putin’s enemy number 1. for the assault the Russians deploy T72 tanks.


True, but how do you conduct house to
house combat with tanks? Usually its the job of APC and IFV. Tanks dont even have the elevation and depression needed to make them effective tools in house to house battles.


----------



## Kraetoz

khansaheeb said:


> >
> 
> If you got weapons then why don't you use them yourselves?



27 European leaders chickened out when this guy called them because of fear of Russian Retaliation.


----------



## khansaheeb

kingQamaR said:


> 2 days yes, but Russia has been years planning this and massing a huge force on the borders. Putin would have assumed that with all the hardware and men thrown at Ukraine on multiple fronts that he would would have a swift victory and regime change. As the days pass and the losses mount for Russia, diplomacy will become more appealing for them. Let's hope they start talking rather than get desperate and use less discriminate methods. If they start committing large atrocities against civilians then I can't see the west standing by anymore.


Seems like it was a well planned bear trap. The bear is trapped and now ready to be skinned alive.

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## nufix

The Lost Brother said:


> You using multiple accounts eh ?


You mean like accounts that were just made minutes ago? Lol. 

Mod please look into this, there are so many new troll accounts.

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## nangyale

kingQamaR said:


> Even if Putin is successful in overthrowing Ukraine, holding on an keeping a lid on the place, is going to be very messy and expensive.


Not really. 

All Russia needs to do is clean the place of Nazis and call it a day.

Falling that cut the country into a good part i-e Novorussia and a bad part Ukraine. De-industrialise the bad part and let the Orcs kill each other.

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## American Pakistani

Ali_Baba said:


> Russia Fails to capture Melitopol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Boris Johnson news – live: PM says Putin will ‘double down’ on invasion
> 
> 
> Live updates from Westminster
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk


All these news from west, Russia fail in this Russia fail in that but in reality Russia is knocking on the doors of Kiev from east, north and south. 

Now the dilemma is on Ukraine, either they surrender, or they fight on the outskirts of Kiev and get crushed easily by Russians or they allow Russian penetration which may result in heavy Russian loss too but will destroy the city of Kiev. Eventually Russians will capture the city anyways.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497664391273193476

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497665434396635139


----------



## Khanate

*Two sides to a story:*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1493251278746570760



lastofthepatriots said:


> Azov are nationalists with a small segment of ‘nazis’ as you say. Ironically those ‘nazis’ are provided weaponry from Israel.
> 
> Truth is stranger than fiction.




German Nazis were nationalists too and small in numbers.

Look I support Ukrainians like I supported occupied Afghans, Iraqis, Syrians, Kashmiris and Palestinians.

It is a principled stance but I don't support bloody Nazis.

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## Iron Shrappenel

Khanate said:


> That is Trevor Noah.
> 
> He got the idea from Trudeau. 😁
> 
> 
> View attachment 819032


I know who he is... From Kyle and peele.... First time I saw this skit... Quite disappointed... That's why race has nothing to do with your loyalties.... It's highly probable that his ancestors were Muslim and were forced out of their tribes by Europeans to put in the Slave trade... Sad moment for them ....


----------



## jamal18

nufix said:


> True, but how do you conduct house to
> house combat with tanks? Usually its the job of APC and IFV. Tanks dont even have the elevation and depression needed to make them effective tools in house to house battles.



You can have all the armour you want, for cities you need dismounted infantry going in and out of buildings. Trained for the job.

Or you can stand well back and flatten every building with firepower. There won't be much of a city left.


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

Kraetoz said:


> Money money money. Sanctions sanctions sanctions.
> 
> Cry me a river.


Crimea River.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497664924574785536

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497666209701146633


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497654759972655108


----------



## Wood

U.S. Weighing New Sanctions on Russia’s Central Bank


As it discusses a series of increasingly severe economic penalties in response to Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine, the U.S. is weighing additional sanctions on Russia’s central bank, people with knowledge of the matter say.




www.wsj.com





This will hit Russian war chest if the Western countries decide to implement it.


----------



## lastofthepatriots

Khanate said:


> *Two sides to a story:*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1493251278746570760
> 
> 
> 
> 
> German Nazis were nationalists too and small in numbers.
> 
> Look I support Ukrainians like I supported occupied Afghans, Iraqis, Syrians, Kashmiris and Palestinians.
> 
> It is a principled stance but I don't support bloody Nazis.



I was just providing information. I’m not a fanboy nor do I support Azov. As a Pakistani, it’s not my fight. But I always hold sympathies for nations defending against aggressors or invaders.

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## Wergeland

Khanate said:


> *Two sides to a story:*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1493251278746570760
> 
> 
> 
> 
> German Nazis were nationalists too and small in numbers.
> 
> Look I support Ukrainians like I supported occupied Afghans, Iraqis, Syrians, Kashmiris and Palestinians.
> 
> It is a principled stance but I don't support bloody Nazis.



Muslims who support Nazis should be ashamed of themselves. They thould repent and ask Allah for forgiveness. Nazism is Haram and utter Jahiliah, tribalism and animalism.

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## lastofthepatriots

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497654759972655108



 

This guy is such a joke.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497662740449542147

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497662819080318978

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497662899623399424

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497662986814558210

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497663092871864325

USAF veteran

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## Khanate

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497325120582471684




Many complaints of unenthusiastic support


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497497627524489218


----------



## kingQamaR

nangyale said:


> Not really.
> 
> All Russia needs to do is clean the place of Nazis and call it a day.
> 
> Falling that cut the country into a good part i-e Novorussia and a bad part Ukraine. De-industrialise the bad part and let the Orcs kill each other.



Ukraine are fighting for their country and their freedom. The Russian soldiers don't know what they are fighting for. This makes Ukraine stronger.

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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497650174935642116
> 
> Ya these weapons are having no impact. None, zero, because Dalit on PDF said so.



Talking about weapons. Why don't you fly F-22s in Afghanistan and win the war all over again?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497663160718876674

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497663233569796096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497663293338664975

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497663421340426250

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497663482967195649

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## CrazyZ

Khanate said:


> *Two sides to a story:*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1493251278746570760
> 
> 
> 
> 
> German Nazis were nationalists too and small in numbers.
> 
> Look I support Ukrainians like I supported occupied Afghans, Iraqis, Syrians, Kashmiris and Palestinians.
> 
> It is a principled stance but I don't support bloody Nazis.


When grannies are sent to front line.....you know this war is over. From what I recall when I saw pics of old men and women being mobilized by Armenia in NK.......I knew that war was over. Same in Afghanistan, when women were being mobilized against the Taliban......well I knew that war was over. A rough rule of thumb.

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## nufix

lastofthepatriots said:


> View attachment 819033
> 
> 
> Kadyrov’s main dog killed. Kadyrov is crying and is shocked about Ukraine having so much weaponry.



A meteor fell upon the Russians and they surrendered immediately. There, I can make claims too.

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## Falcon29

Ali_Baba said:


> They should now blow up the runway to stop the Russians from re-attempting to occupy it - it would form an airbridge to bring in reinforcements - Ukraine has no military need for it as its airforce not effective anymore and there is no value putting soldiers there to defend it ?


I think they are already doing that.

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## Dalit

RescueRanger said:


> This, 100% this, I cringe every time I hear News Presenters at pains to diplomatically refer to Kyiv as a modern city and how it traumatizing it would be to see bombing and large scale combat without devastating damage. This of course is a thinly veiled dig at the "uncivilized" and backwards cities that were okay to be bombed to shit.



Justice being served in a sense. Western arrogance is being shredded.

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## lastofthepatriots

nufix said:


> A meteor fell upon the Russians and they surrendered immediately. There, I can make claims too.



He’s literally crying on live.


----------



## The Lost Brother

@RescueRanger one question for you as you seem to be a sensible poster. Ukraine was once a part of USSR so all the think tanks sitting in Ukraine must be knowing about the way USSR act or react from strategic point of view plus they have learnt from West as well. Did Putin miscalculated the strength of Ukraine ?The comedian turn President made a mockery of Putin by boosting morale of Ukrainian people. It is the Ukrainian people fighting now side by side their army.

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## Goenitz



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## The Lost Brother

Dalit said:


> Justice being served in a sense. Western arrogance is being shredded.



Lol where ? It is Russia crying entering into the fourth day of war. Fighting on outskirts and not able to gain much being second to USA.


----------



## Patriot forever

RescueRanger said:


> That is not what I am worried about, If Russia feels it's endgame target is SNAFU it will go for alternative options and that is what is concerning. Non Lethal worst case scenario = Annexation of Donetsk and Luhansk with access to the black sea:
> View attachment 819031
> 
> 
> *The lethal option is not even worth thinking about. *



IMO

Russia focus militarily is
1) Enlarge newly recognised independent republics. ( Which is going well)
2) Intimidate Kiev into accepting neutrality ( which will most likely happen), now that US has also accepted that if Kiev agrees it has no problem with. ( probably miscalculated the extreme Russia will go? when they set the events in motion).
3) Demikitarize Ukraine ( which is almost 75% done in terms of major defense infrastructure and big equipment)

If you look closely Russian demands, its objectives are very clear.

Estimated 150k-200k forces at the border only 1/3 ( 60k) of which engaged in the initial assault, now after initial refusal by Kiev to talks increased to 50% today ( 90k). Step by step increasing pressure.


Mostly using old equipment ( probably meant for storage or scrapping in next 5 years) and probably majority are reserves not even frontline units supported by various groups with units of SF in between. ( Somewhat resemblance to how we did operations against terrorists and cleared the areas).

Russia has almost a million army with 2m in reserve.


Its upto zelenski how quick he wants to end it. US/UK are the ones who want a prolonged conflict.


( I am no expert just my opinion).

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## jamal18

nufix said:


> A Ukrainian crybaby detected.
> 
> 
> That’s my point, APC and IFV are armors created designed around infantry which in turns could support infantry better in urban warfare setting as battle taxis or extra fire power against enemy fortified positions. Tanks on the other hands, cannot provide much protection for infantry in dense urban setting, cannot be an effective extra fire power as well due to limited gun elevation and depression, too cumbersome to move with infantry… but I guess tanks are better than no armor at all. In the case of Russia, I dont think they are short on IFV and APC.


Yes. And like all armoured formations, they are short of infantry.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497663329770352646


----------



## Dalit

The Lost Brother said:


> Not good for @Daniel808 and other Chinese fanboys.



You know what Western sources were claiming not so long ago during the Taliban march towards Kabul? ANA had the upperhand and the druggy addicts in Pantsjir valley were ready to defeat the Taliban. We all know that Western claims were lies. You will hear a lot of lies during this conflict from the Western media.

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## AmiEktaKharapChele

All fanbois here out with their poms poms wouldn't even come to fight from their comfortable western homes even if it was their own county's *** on the line and they're mocking another nation defending itself from invaders...


Fanbois 🙄

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## Wergeland

This whole thing looks like a replay of Taliban victory in Afghanistan.

So much Taliban this and that, ANA winning, taking back city.. you know. All the same fuzz. What happened in the end. Taliban just steamrolled every province and took Kabul with almost no casulties.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497655782489395208

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## Falcon29

Russian AF has to be deploying flares? Is it just too many manpads being fired in consecutive order?


----------



## Khanate

lastofthepatriots said:


> I was just providing information. I’m not a fanboy nor do I support Azov. As a Pakistani, it’s not my fight. But I always hold sympathies for nations defending against aggressors or invaders.




Man I vouch for you being a level-headed person, seen you post on this board for years.

Never would I accuse you of supporting Nazis.

I'm only saying West has adopted a *Good Nazi, Bad Nazi *policy in Ukraine that is super dangerous.

These Azov nazis have links to far-right extremists in *ALL* Western capitals.



lastofthepatriots said:


> View attachment 819033
> 
> 
> Kadyrov’s main dog killed. Kadyrov is crying and is shocked about Ukraine having so much weaponry.




Kadyrov’s daughter is against the war.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497583590410010628


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497670245795999751


----------



## Dalit

The Lost Brother said:


> Lol where ? It is Russia crying entering into the fourth day of war. Fighting on outskirts and not able to gain much being second to USA.



LOL keep smoking the good stuff.

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## Wergeland

The Lost Brother said:


> @RescueRanger one question for you as you seem to be a sensible poster. Ukraine was once a part of USSR so all the think tanks sitting in Ukraine must be knowing about the way USSR act or react from strategic point of view plus they have learnt from West as well. Did Putin miscalculated the strength of Ukraine ?The comedian turn President made a mockery of Putin by boosting morale of Ukrainian people. It is the Ukrainian people fighting now side by side their army.


----------



## Dalit

Kharap Foa said:


> All fanbois here out with their poms poms wouldn't even come to fight from their comfortable western homes even if it was their own county's *** on the line and they're mocking another nation defending itself from invaders...
> 
> 
> Fanbois 🙄



Which invaders? US/NATO installed poodles?

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## Dalit

M. Sarmad said:


> The number of Pakistani posters here defending the Imperialist NATO is appalling....
> 
> More power to Russia .. Someone has finally stood up to the US of A, the biggest terrorist in the human history



We stand with Russia. 100%.



The Lost Brother said:


> Your record is stucked to Taliban. This war is covered by most of the television channels and have their correspondents there. You must be hearing about it in SIndhi sitting in remote village of Sindh. If we stick to Russian sources too then they are not in Kiev as of now and the war is on 4th day.They are still fighting on outskirts where they are facing massive resistance. Russia does not have the money to fight for a long war.



Lies, lies and more lies. You can't win against Russia. End of story. Deal with it.

You are the same people that were dancing up and down when US/NATO got soundly defeated by the Taliban. The defeat in Afghanistan wasn't sufficient. Don't worry. More is on its way.

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## Chacha_Facebooka

And India wants Akhand Bharat?

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## Abid123

HttpError said:


> The great industries you talk about and wealth was all stolen from the commonwealth colonies. You looted Trillions of $ just from the sub-continent alone. You committed Genocide against humanity in the Sub-continent and other parts of the world. There is nothing glorious about your today or past as it was all based on atrocities and theft. Your time is up because you need to Repay (Pakistan) of its stolen wealth and the atrocities you committed here.
> 
> You can talk all you want but I don't want to waste my time by writing huge paragraphs which doesn't even make any sense. The fact is you guys are nothing but a vassal state of the US. So I'd like to talk to your Manager (Master/USA)  You guys are no Body.


UK is simply USA's little lap dog that jumps to cause trouble when USA says jump.

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## _Nabil_

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497654759972655108


Fake, translate replies ...


----------



## jamal18

Excellent program on the background to the war. Obviously, not MSM ( mainstream media).
About 40 mins.

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## RescueRanger

lastofthepatriots said:


> I feel like a lot of misconceptions that people have can be cleared by reading history of organizations and nations. I know not everyone has the time or the interest, but it helps in making sense out of situations.
> 
> For example, a week or so ago Pakistanis on pdf were in an uproar about Iran supporting BLF. But if you you read the history of BLF they’ve conducted more attacks on the Iranians than the Pakistanis by a long shot. Plus they were supported heavily by Iraqi Saddam and the soviets. History does provide some clearance to the motivations and actions of groups and nations.



I'll admit that not every Ukranian is a Nazi, that would be a stupid statement and downright Ignorant. I have however studied it at length and there is a serious problem of racism and neo-nazi idealism permeating Ukrainian society. Neo-Nazism just like any other "ism" targets the disenfranchised, the young, the easily beguiled.





__





Stepan Bandera: The Resurrection of a Ukrainian National Hero on JSTOR


David R. Marples, Stepan Bandera: The Resurrection of a Ukrainian National Hero, Europe-Asia Studies, Vol. 58, No. 4 (Jun., 2006), pp. 555-566




www.jstor.org









__





The Creeping Resurgence of the Ukrainian Radical Right? The Case of the Freedom Party on JSTOR


ANTON SHEKHOVTSOV, The Creeping Resurgence of the Ukrainian Radical Right? The Case of the Freedom Party, Europe-Asia Studies, Vol. 63, No. 2 (March 2011), pp. 203-228




www.jstor.org





Azov Battalion has direct links and inspired from the banned far-right terrorist group Combat 18. The symbol adopted by the Azov Battalion is the Horizontally aligned Wolfsanfel which was used by then 2nd SS panzer Div.










In 2018 time magazine published a detailed article on Azov Bat which can be found here;









How a White-Supremacist Militia Uses Facebook to Radicalize and Train New Members


This Ukrainian militant group’s use of social media has been key to their international growth




time.com





You claim that Azov Batallion is limited to a few hundred members, *Ali Soufan, a security consultant and former FBI agent* who has studied Azov, estimates that more than *17,000 foreign fighters *have come to Ukraine over the past six years from 50 countries.

Notable Far Right extremist groups in Europe with links directly or indirectly to Azov Movement:





The problem is that movements such as this usually inspire offshoots, they network and they expand to dream to carry out bigger and more spectacular attacks.

After the massacre of 51 people in Christchurch, New Zealand, in 2019—an arm of the Azov movement helped distribute the terrorist’s raving manifesto, in print and online, seeking to glorify his crimes and inspire others to follow. In the 16 years that followed the attacks of 9/11, far-right groups were responsible for nearly three-quarters of the 85 deadly extremist incidents that took place on American soil, according to a report published in 2017 by the U.S. Government Accountability Office.

Every society and culture has a problem with extremism and violent extremism, Muslims have the Taliban and militant fighters, neo-Christian and even agnostic movements have both Nazi and Antifa inspired movements. My point here is, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck - it's a duck!

*Further reading:*
Nazis and Slavs: From Racial Theory to Racist Practice




__





Nazis and Slavs: From Racial Theory to Racist Practice on JSTOR


John Connelly, Nazis and Slavs: From Racial Theory to Racist Practice, Central European History, Vol. 32, No. 1 (1999), pp. 1-33




www.jstor.org

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## khansaheeb

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497655782489395208


Advance NATO weapons' training, but what will they put in the bottles? Russian soldiers would have drunk all the cocktails by now.

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## nangyale

kingQamaR said:


> Ukraine are fighting for their country and their freedom. The Russian soldiers don't know what they are fighting for. This makes Ukraine stronger.


Nice joke.

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## _Nabil_

The Lost Brother said:


> Lol where ? It is Russia crying entering into the fourth day of war. Fighting on outskirts and not able to gain much being second to USA.


Hi, you seem like you joined today, when did you applied please ?

Thanks


----------



## kingQamaR

nangyale said:


> Nice joke.



Not like the Afghan army!!


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497672109794988049

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## Dariush the Great

The Lost Brother said:


> What is the opinion of common Iranian in it ? Since Russia helped you in Syria so is there an plan to send Qaher or higher sophisticated technology to Russia ?


@The Eagle @waz check this falseflagger. joined today for trolling.

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497668639822352384


----------



## RescueRanger

Ali_Baba said:


> Russia Fails to capture Melitopol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Boris Johnson news – live: PM says Putin will ‘double down’ on invasion
> 
> 
> Live updates from Westminster
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk


UK only has 70,000 troops and relies on the European Quick Reaction Force. The commitment of the Royal Welsh is part of the 800 or so already assigned to the NATO Enhanced Forward Presence is Estonia. 84 Sqd based at RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus already provides SAR and heavy lift.

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## nangyale

kingQamaR said:


> Not like the Afghan army!!


Sure Nazis are better fighters than the drug addict pedos aka Ana.

But for a peaceful and prosperous world both needs to be eliminated.


----------



## kingQamaR

nangyale said:


> Sure Nazis are better fighters than the drug addict pedos aka Ana.
> 
> But for a peaceful and prosperous world both needs to be eliminated.



Maybe Vlad has underestimated the determination of the Ukrainians to remain an independent country


----------



## _Nabil_

The Lost Brother said:


> Hi
> 
> Request denied. Don't give a damn to you.


It's ok, was just curious about average application process time.

Looks like Indians have a priority joining this Forum .....


----------



## Falcon29




----------



## nangyale

kingQamaR said:


> Maybe Vlad has underestimated the determination of the Ukrainians to remain an independent country


It's only day three. 
Take a chill pill.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497673999710568452

Referring to Russian unconventional forces getting quickly destroyed


----------



## khansaheeb

Falcon29 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497668639822352384


Russia doesn't need to talk, as long as they can continue to decimate Ukrainian defense systems they will continue the occupation and take the losses. seems like Russia's goal is to make Ukraine toothless and they are succeeding.

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## PakLeader

Patriot forever said:


> IMO
> 
> Russia focus militarily is
> 1) Enlarge newly recognised independent republics. ( Which is going well)
> 2) Intimidate Kiev into accepting neutrality ( which will most likely happen), now that US has also accepted that if Kiev agrees it has no problem with. ( probably miscalculated the extreme Russia will go? when they set the events in motion).
> 3) Demikitarize Ukraine ( which is almost 75% done in terms of major defense infrastructure and big equipment)
> 
> If you look closely Russian demands, its objectives are very clear.
> 
> Estimated 150k-200k forces at the border only 1/3 ( 60k) of which engaged in the initial assault, now after initial refusal by Kiev to talks increased to 50% today ( 90k). Step by step increasing pressure.
> 
> 
> Mostly using old equipment ( probably meant for storage or scrapping in next 5 years) and probably majority are reserves not even frontline units supported by various groups with units of SF in between. ( Somewhat resemblance to how we did operations against terrorists and cleared the areas).
> 
> Russia has almost a million army with 2m in reserve.
> 
> 
> Its upto zelenski how quick he wants to end it. US/UK are the ones who want a prolonged conflict.
> 
> 
> ( I am no expert just my opinion).


Very well said. Its very simple, none of this would be happening if the U.S and its cronies didn't try to bring Ukraine into NATO. They needed an ego boost after their humiliation in Afghanistan. The U.S is cauky and arrogant and is not coming to terms with the reality that the world has changed and their power is wanning. The Russian invasion suits them well...the U.S always need some world conflict to keep themselves relevant and keep the military industrial complex churning. 

Anyway let's hope we come to a peaceful resolution soon. War is never good and loss of life is always tragic.

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## beast89

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497664924574785536


RIP


----------



## Falcon29

*Russia is working to weaken Kyiv regime. If Kyiv regime remains functional for months, and urban warfare continues for months, along with more sanctions and isolation of Russia from global economic system, than it can spell trouble for Russia. Could this become a world war? No, because who will come to aid of Russia? It could back Russia into a corner and Russia would need to take drastic measures to drag others into it. 

World war is not scary term. Just means many nations involved. Right now many nations taking political/economic measures against Russia. If others took such measures against opponents of Russia, it would be like a political/economic world war. *

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## Elias MC

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497654759972655108



It's fake, this is the original video


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497669977092104198

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## RescueRanger

The Lost Brother said:


> @RescueRanger one question for you as you seem to be a sensible poster. Ukraine was once a part of USSR so all the think tanks sitting in Ukraine must be knowing about the way USSR act or react from strategic point of view plus they have learnt from West as well. Did Putin miscalculated the strength of Ukraine ?The comedian turn President made a mockery of Putin by boosting morale of Ukrainian people. It is the Ukrainian people fighting now side by side their army.


Putin miscalculated in the sense that the Russian speaking belt would just welcome him with open arms and once Donbas was under Russian control, they would take the port, and the government in Kyiv would crumble, he miscalculated on the people of Ukraine offering the level of resistance the Russians have experience. 

Either way, this entire event will have reverberating consequences for the entire region and for many years to come.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497674148977553411
Russian supply lines getting overextended


----------



## kingQamaR

He's seriously underestimated Ukraine. There's a very strong chance that Putin will be finished after this.

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## S10

RescueRanger said:


> Putin miscalculated in the sense that the Russian speaking belt would just welcome him with open arms and once Donbas was under Russian control, they would take the port, and the government in Kyiv would crumble, he miscalculated on the people of Ukraine offering the level of resistance the Russians have experience.
> 
> Either way, this entire event will have reverberating consequences for the entire region and for many years to come.


Even the Russia belt in Ukraine is mostly 80% ethnic Ukrainians that had to put up with Russia back separatists for 8 years. Any good will that may have existed is long gone.

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## AmiEktaKharapChele

kingQamaR said:


> He's seriously underestimated Ukraine. There's a very strong chance that Putin will be finished after this.




He's dug himself into a deep hole

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## Invicta

RescueRanger said:


> UK only has 70,000 troops and relies on the European Quick Reaction Force. The commitment of the Royal Welsh is part of the 800 or so already assigned to the NATO Enhanced Forward Presence is Estonia. 84 Sqd based at RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus already provides SAR and heavy lift.


I like many in my circle are secretly thanking Putin for this war. If anything he will force the hand of UK, France and Germany to recruit their conventional forces for a meaningful standoff. Our numbers have been cut because of prolonged peace in Europe. At this time even if all other EU countries combine together they cannot match Russians in numbers. 

Quality of our forces will only take us so far in a standoff/limited conflict. Russians due to their numbers can open multiple fronts at will without being challenged.

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## F-22Raptor

kingQamaR said:


> He's seriously underestimated Ukraine. There's a very strong chance that Putin will be finished after this.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497593317604925444

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497594786051727362

Russia estimates their losses at nearly 4,000

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## Falcon29

kingQamaR said:


> He's seriously underestimated Ukraine. There's a very strong chance that Putin will be finished after this.


I don't think so, it's only been three days. They are not using as much firepower as US did with Iraq. What US did with Iraq was extreme. The challenge for Putin will be political/economical. He cannot get world to negotiate for some kind of settlement now, nor recognize any gains they make. Nor will anyone come to Russia's aid besides declaring political support.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497670938720182277


----------



## RescueRanger

Invicta said:


> I like many in my circle are secretly thanking Putin for this war. If anything he will force the hand of UK, France and Germany to recruit their conventional forces for a meaningful standoff. Our numbers have been cut because of prolonged peace in Europe. At this time even if all other EU countries combine together they cannot match Russians in numbers.
> 
> Quality of our forces will only take us so far in a standoff/limited conflict. Russians due to their numbers can open multiple fronts at will without being challenged.


Agreed, it pained to to hear the Operation Pitting would be the last outing for the Royal Airforce C130's soon to be replaced for A400M's and Heftier C17's. The loss of Lynx and reduction in numbers under the "integrated workforce plan" as announced in the 2020 review is a damn shame. 

I am particularly keen to hear from UK service personnel about their thoughts on the new Ranger Regt. That RAF Beret and Selous scouts beret badge .

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497676775425462276


----------



## GamoAccu

Any update on this Indian volunteer fighter?

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## RescueRanger

GamoAccu said:


> Any update on this Indian volunteer fighter?
> 
> View attachment 819050

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## Khanate

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497677595701387264
*Civilized Only *


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497609007606996992

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## Dalit

GamoAccu said:


> Any update on this Indian volunteer fighter?
> 
> View attachment 819050



Indians are making all kinds of excuses to avoid angering any side.

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## Falcon29

Ukraine has a professional-grade army with Western material and intelligence support. US fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. Iraqi Shia majority was against Saddam and happy to see his regime brought down. His army was not professional. Afghanistan has nothing more than lightly armed tribes. If US fought in somewhere like Egypt, it would face heavy casualties. Being a superpower does not enable to just boulder through a whole country with no trouble. Occupying one nation is a costly and long term task.

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## GamoAccu

GamoAccu said:


> Any update on this Indian volunteer fighter?
> 
> View attachment 819050



I can't wait to see Indians start claiming their guy killed 500+ Russian soldiers.

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## RescueRanger

Dalit said:


> Indians are making all kinds of excuses to avoid angering all sides.


It's actually comedy gold, I had a good laugh. Anyone who has ever served will know what I mean when I say this "all the gear, no idea!".

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## TheNoob

Khanate said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497677595701387264
> *Civilized Only *
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497609007606996992



This really rustles my jimmies.

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## kingQamaR

India where Britain has been begging for a trade deal and they are holding out for visas for Indians to come to the U.K? I would rather ten Ukrainians come here than one person from India which is cosying up to Putin and women are treated like dirt.


----------



## RescueRanger

GamoAccu said:


> I can't wait to see Indians start claiming their guy killed 500+ Russian soldiers.


I'm just rolling on the floor after looking at that morale patch...

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497676293042757635

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## Wergeland

Falcon29 said:


> *Russia is working to weaken Kyiv regime. If Kyiv regime remains functional for months, and urban warfare continues for months, along with more sanctions and isolation of Russia from global economic system, than it can spell trouble for Russia. Could this become a world war? No, because who will come to aid of Russia? It could back Russia into a corner and Russia would need to take drastic measures to drag others into it.
> 
> World war is not scary term. Just means many nations involved. Right now many nations taking political/economic measures against Russia. If others took such measures against opponents of Russia, it would be like a political/economic world war. *



One thing is for sure.
The western world still dominates the world completeley. Just amazing to watch. Look at this forum, a so called Pakistan Defence Forum but still tons of Pakistanis support NATO, which droned Pakistan for 15 long years. Thats the power of the west right there.

Western world has a unmatched soft power.
Look at the Chinese, nowhere near the ally Russia hoped for. They are getting contained by America in South China Sea but still not a single voice of support from Beijing. Not any economic deals to ease sanctions on the Russians.

Western world is the master of divide and conqour. There is not even a decent competition. Its almost laughable.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RescueRanger

TheNoob said:


> This really rustles my jimmies.


Well sadly Iraqi face don't fit.


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## Invicta

RescueRanger said:


> Agreed, it pained to to hear the Operation Pitting would be the last outing for the Royal Airforce C130's soon to be replaced for A400M's and Heftier C17's. The loss of Lynx and reduction in numbers under the "integrated workforce plan" as announced in the 2020 review is a damn shame.
> 
> I am particularly keen to hear from UK service personnel about their thoughts on the new Ranger Regt. That RAF Beret and Selous scouts beret badge .


The general feedback is lukewarm, whilst they recognise the reasons for their creation these forces will only work in expeditionary role. Can you imagine UK throwing Ranger Regiment in Kremlins path - it will be a blood bath. 

We recently announced an upgrade to Challenger 2 tanks but I now expect the numbers to be increased as well. I would also like to think that the number of regular army will be increased rapidly and UK will likely try to permanently base some units in Latvia. They might reactivate their German bases which were let go of recently but that might not happen - I am not certain what leverage UK has anymore over Germany to get these bases back. Most likely number of F35s will increase and if that is becoming too costly Tempest will be accelerated to make the numbers up. 

The Navy is doing fine for now but I would expect an increase in the number of Royal Marines to about 30K fighting force with 10K Reserve.

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## Dual Wielder

M. Sarmad said:


> The number of Pakistani posters here defending the Imperialist NATO is appalling....
> 
> More power to Russia .. Someone has finally stood up to the US of A, the biggest terrorist in the human history



Russia is no saint its an imperial empire itself, but NATO yes is far worse.. my sympathies are primarily geared towards Ukrainians as they are being used as cannon fodder by the former deceived by their false promises. It kind of reminds me of Pakistan how the west played Pakistan and bigged up Fascist India at the cost of our national security. Lets not also forget how Russia helped India split Pakistan in 1971, and continues to arm fascist India weapons whom have murdered over 100'000s of Kashmiris as well as help save fascist India at the United Nations countless of times and for the latter reason alone I hope this invasion will be very costly to Russia, but at the same time also put more fear in western warmongering countries so they focus on Solely containing Russia, and not have the liberty of spreading their so called 'democracy' to other countries like they did with Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria etc..

P.s Russia is not standing up to the USA because it wants to i.e. for the good of humanity, Putin and his predecessors 'begged' them to let Russia join NATO, and they rejected.. thus this friction is out of necessity than choice.


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## LeGenD

beijingwalker said:


> Russia almost took over the entire Ukraine in hours, it's mindblowing! if this is slow, I don't know what is fast...



Russian forces have not managed to secure Ukraine yet.

Ukrainians are putting up a fight in different locations including in Kyiv and Kharkov and Russian forces have suffered setbacks in some of these clashes.

The matter of concern is what will happen in the cities.



Ahmad Saleem said:


> It seems the easy part of the war is over. Eliminating Ukrainian military infrastructure in the open areas was easy but capturing the cities and urban center is not going as per plan. Russia seems to have no plan to capture them. After halted advances, they are now panicking and have increased their firepower.
> 
> USA got choked in urban warfare in Iraq. Ukrainians are much better equipped and Russians are not that advanced. The bloody part of the war is just going to begin.



Seems like it.

NATO had to secure following cities while attempting to occupy Iraq in 2003:

_*Nasiriyah*_









Battle of Nasiriyah - Wikipedia
 






en.wikipedia.org









__





Battle of Nasiriyah


Iraq War 2003-Battle of Nasiriyah : Initially, the U.S. 1st Marine Division fought through the Rumaila oil fields, and moved north to Nasiri...




secondgulfwar.blogspot.com







https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/U.S.%20Marines%20in%20Battle_An-Nasiriyah%20%20PCN%2010600000700_1.pdf



_*Najaf*_









Battle of Najaf (2003) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org









__





Battle of Najaf


The Battle of Najaf was a major battle in the 2003 invasion of Iraq. The first stage of the battle was fought when the US 3rd Infantry Divi...




secondgulfwar.blogspot.com





_*Basra*_









Battle of Basra (2003) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













A Tale of Two Cities: The battle of Basra (2003) - AOAV


AOAV's report on the use of explosive weapons in the early stage of the Iraq war focuses on the UK in the battle of Basra, 2003




aoav.org.uk





_*Baghdad*_









Battle of Baghdad (2003) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org









__





Fall of Baghdad-April 2003


Fall of Baghdad-April 2003 : Three weeks into the invasion, US-led Coalition forces moved into Baghdad. Units of the Iraqi Special Republic...




secondgulfwar.blogspot.com













Thunder Run


Based on reporting that was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize, Thunder Run chronicles one of the boldest gambles in modern military histo...



www.goodreads.com









__





The Battle for Baghdad on JSTOR


Kenneth M. Pollack, The Battle for Baghdad, The National Interest, No. 103 (September/October 2009), pp. 8-17




www.jstor.org





British forces fought in Basra while American forces fought in other cities.

NATO military maneuvers in Iraq in 2003 are documented in following link:



https://history.army.mil/html/books/058/58-1/CMH_Pub_58-1.JPG



Iraqi insurgents were able to regroup in Fallujah but American forces cleared this city in 2004:

_*Fallujah*_









Second Battle of Fallujah - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org









__





Operation Phantom Fury – Beginning of the End of al Qaeda in Iraq | Armchair General Magazine - We Put YOU in Command!






armchairgeneral.com







https://www.airforcemag.com/PDF/MagazineArchive/Documents/2005/February%202005/0205fallujah.pdf







__





The Battles of Al-Fallujah on JSTOR


William Head, The Battles of Al-Fallujah, Air Power History, Vol. 60, No. 4 (WINTER 2013), pp. 32-51




www.jstor.org

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497682496246493194


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## Khanate

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497669235631431688



M. Sarmad said:


> The number of Pakistani posters here defending the Imperialist NATO is appalling....
> 
> More power to Russia .. Someone has finally stood up to the US of A, the biggest terrorist in the human history




Because NATO and Zelenskyy supports occupied Kashmiris and Palestinains... 😜

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## Falcon29

Wergeland said:


> One thing is for sure.
> The western world still dominates the world completeley. Just amazing to watch. Look at this forum, a so called Pakistan Defence Forum but still tons of Pakistanis support NATO, which droned Pakistan for 15 long years. Thats the power of the west right there.
> 
> Western world has a unmatched soft power.
> Look at the Chinese, nowhere near the ally Russia hoped for. They are getting contained by America in South China Sea but still not a single voice of support from Beijing. Not any economic deals to ease sanctions on the Russians.
> 
> Western world is the master of divide and conqour. There is not even a decent competition. Its almost laughable.



I believe most people here don't support one or the other. But, want to point out some double standards. Western world indeed does dominate global financial system. And like you said, there are Eastern powers but they are not on same page. Russia-India-China-Iran, all have their own vision/interests.

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## Invicta

kingQamaR said:


> India where Britain has been begging for a trade deal and they are holding out for visas for Indians to come to the U.K? I would rather ten Ukrainians come here than one person from India which is cosying up to Putin and women are treated like dirt.


They think UK will succumb to their demands, its never going to happen. Their bravado is going to hurt them badly, its only a matter of time before all these sanctions on Russia start impacting countries that buy defense equipment from Russia. India is in for a rough ride.

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## QWECXZ

Wergeland said:


> One thing is for sure.
> The western world still dominates the world completeley. Just amazing to watch. Look at this forum, a so called Pakistan Defence Forum but still tons of Pakistanis support NATO, which droned Pakistan for 15 long years. Thats the power of the west right there.
> 
> Western world has a unmatched soft power.
> Look at the Chinese, nowhere near the ally Russia hoped for. They are getting contained by America in South China Sea but still not a single voice of support from Beijing. Not any economic deals to ease sanctions on the Russians.
> 
> Western world is the master of divide and conqour. There is not even a decent competition. Its almost laughable.


The Chinese lack the self-confidence to have an independent voice in world politics yet. They are focused on their economic development for now.

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## RescueRanger

Invicta said:


> The general feedback is lukewarm, whilst they recognise the reasons for their creation these forces will only work in expeditionary role. Can you imagine UK throwing Ranger Regiment in Kremlins path - it will be a blood bath.
> 
> We recently announced an upgrade to Challenger 2 tanks but I now expect the numbers to be increased as well. I would also like to think that the number of regular army will be increased rapidly and UK will likely try to permanently base some units in Latvia. They might reactivate their German bases which were let go of recently but that might not happen - I am not certain what leverage UK has anymore over Germany to get these bases back. Most likely number of F35s will increase and if that is becoming too costly Tempest will be accelerated to make the numbers up.
> 
> The Navy is doing fine for now but I would expect an increase in the number of Royal Marines to about 30K fighting force with 10K Reserve.



Sounds good, having worked alongside sappers from REME during the Pakistan Earthquake, I have a lot of respect for British Soldiers, very humble, very professional and they get the job done. I really wish the UK would reconsider reducing their military any further, they are trying to emulate the JSDF model but as you and I both know the self defense force is a toothless tiger. 

Very nice to hear about Challenger 2, and the F35's will be a welcome relief, considering when Eurofighter was inducted it was already outdated, which is a shame because I remember first reading about it in Jane's Defense Review and it really was a tremendous aircraft, still is, but with the F35 is on another level, beautiful bird. 

Having a permanent presence beyond Estonia and Cyprus will be a bonus and much needed if things go sour in the region. 

Thank you for the information, all the best .

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## QWECXZ

Invicta said:


> They think UK will succumb to their demands, its never going to happen. Their bravado is going to hurt them badly, its only a matter of time before all these sanctions on Russia start impacting countries that buy defense equipment from Russia. India is in for a rough ride.


Iran has nothing to lose and Russia has a lot to sell to Iran, including modern jet fighters, submarines, tanks, radars, etc. Iran will happily sign billion dollar military contracts with Russia if Russia no longer worries about Western sanctions.

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## Dariush the Great

LeGenD said:


> Russian forces have not managed to secure Ukraine yet.
> 
> Ukrainians are putting up a fight in different locations including in Kyiv and Kharkov and Russian forces have suffered setbacks in some of these clashes.
> 
> The matter of concern is what will happen in the cities.
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like it.
> 
> NATO had to secure following cities while attempting to occupy Iraq in 2003:
> 
> _*Nasiriyah*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Battle of Nasiriyah - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Battle of Nasiriyah
> 
> 
> Iraq War 2003-Battle of Nasiriyah : Initially, the U.S. 1st Marine Division fought through the Rumaila oil fields, and moved north to Nasiri...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> secondgulfwar.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/U.S.%20Marines%20in%20Battle_An-Nasiriyah%20%20PCN%2010600000700_1.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> _*Najaf*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Battle of Najaf (2003) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Battle of Najaf
> 
> 
> The Battle of Najaf was a major battle in the 2003 invasion of Iraq. The first stage of the battle was fought when the US 3rd Infantry Divi...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> secondgulfwar.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Basra*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Battle of Basra (2003) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Tale of Two Cities: The battle of Basra (2003) - AOAV
> 
> 
> AOAV's report on the use of explosive weapons in the early stage of the Iraq war focuses on the UK in the battle of Basra, 2003
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aoav.org.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Baghdad*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Battle of Baghdad (2003) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fall of Baghdad-April 2003
> 
> 
> Fall of Baghdad-April 2003 : Three weeks into the invasion, US-led Coalition forces moved into Baghdad. Units of the Iraqi Special Republic...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> secondgulfwar.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thunder Run
> 
> 
> Based on reporting that was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize, Thunder Run chronicles one of the boldest gambles in modern military histo...
> 
> 
> 
> www.goodreads.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Battle for Baghdad on JSTOR
> 
> 
> Kenneth M. Pollack, The Battle for Baghdad, The National Interest, No. 103 (September/October 2009), pp. 8-17
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jstor.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> British forces fought in Basra while American forces fought in other cities.
> 
> NATO military maneuvers in Iraq in 2003 are documented in following link:
> 
> 
> 
> https://history.army.mil/html/books/058/58-1/CMH_Pub_58-1.JPG
> 
> 
> 
> Iraqi insurgents were able to regroup in Fallujah but American forces cleared this city in 2004:
> 
> _*Fallujah*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Second Battle of Fallujah - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Operation Phantom Fury – Beginning of the End of al Qaeda in Iraq | Armchair General Magazine - We Put YOU in Command!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> armchairgeneral.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.airforcemag.com/PDF/MagazineArchive/Documents/2005/February%202005/0205fallujah.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Battles of Al-Fallujah on JSTOR
> 
> 
> William Head, The Battles of Al-Fallujah, Air Power History, Vol. 60, No. 4 (WINTER 2013), pp. 32-51
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jstor.org


 Where are the heavy bombardments on Kiev, the capital city? No city in Ukraine has been bombarded properly by the Russians. It is a joke, even one missile slamming against a random building in Kiev will make huge breaking news headlines, this will not happen if there is a heavy bombing campaign by the Russians.



QWECXZ said:


> Iran has nothing to lose and Russia has a lot to sell to Iran, including modern jet fighters, submarines, tanks, radars, etc. Iran will happily sign billion dollar military contracts with Russia if Russia no longer worries about Western sanctions.


Don't bet on it. Putin is pro Israel.

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## Oublious

Dariush the Great said:


> @The Eagle @waz check this falseflagger. joined today for trolling.




why not, he is doing the same as Iranian members and that is trolling


Khanate said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497669235631431688
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because NATO and Zelenskyy supports occupied Kashmiris and Palestinains... 😜
> 
> View attachment 819054





Why would he give support to Palestine and Kashmir? What do you offer the country? Relation between countries is give and take, so did any Arab county send weapon or politcally support? What did Pakistan do for them?

Western world supported Ukrain specially EU, so he will support them.


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497683911849218053


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## QWECXZ

Dariush the Great said:


> Don't bet on it. Putin is pro Israel.


Putin is pro-power. Russia-Israel relations have deteriorated since the invasion of Ukraine started. And Putin cares about nothing more than Russia's interests. Russia has never been a pro-Israel state and antisemitism has always been strong in Russia.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Oublious

QWECXZ said:


> Iran has nothing to lose and Russia has a lot to sell to Iran, including modern jet fighters, submarines, tanks, radars, etc. Iran will happily sign billion dollar military contracts with Russia if Russia no longer worries about Western sanctions.




If Irian is still going to buy Russian equipment after this war  .


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## Wergeland

Falcon29 said:


> I believe most people here don't support one or the other. But, want to point out some double standards. Western world indeed does dominate global financial system. And like you said, there are Eastern powers but they are not on same page. Russia-India-China-Iran, all have their own vision/interests.



Of course this forum is not frquented by goverment officials. Most of us are average joes with opinions on different matters. Thats the cool part bout this forum.

What really surprises me is the Chinese official attitude. It really lost all its clothes. Russia is getting hammered by santions and China and India, both close partners, are nowhere to be seen. If China wanted to it could easily provide the economic means for Russia to weather the sanctions. But so far China really chickened out.

I am not saying this with light heart, but one simply cannot trust China as a defence partner. It can provide cheap equipment and other goods. But when it comes to real trouble China will back off. It will never go against western interest as long as it values the western trade above anything else.

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## siegecrossbow

GamoAccu said:


> Any update on this Indian volunteer fighter?
> 
> View attachment 819050



For real?

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## Adir-M

As long as this battle prolong Russia will be in big trouble (lets take aside Swift and hard sanctions that will be hard to swallow). As i see it the Russian failed to overwhelmed Ukraine forces - 3 days passed and they still didn't enter Kiev and the big cities and the elected Ukraine government show resilient to stay. Putin though he can put poppet regime and make this operation fast like south ostia war but he wrongly calculate Ukraine.
As long as this battle prolong Ukraine will surly get west support and this can turn out to be a gorilla war with disadvantage for the Russian (Thier is already reporters that some Russians forces have shortages of fule to continue) just imagine what will happen if Ukraine will get massive anti tank and anti air weapons against big army that enter urban areas (Ukraine will have lot of targets)


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## Falcon29

Dariush the Great said:


> Where are the heavy bombardments on Kiev, the capital city? No city in Ukraine has been bombarded properly by the Russians. It is a joke, even one missile slamming against a random building in Kiev will make huge breaking news headlines, this will not happen if there is a heavy bombing campaign by the Russians.


You do have a point here. Russia is certainly not doing a heavy bombing campaign like the US did with Iraq, for example. 1700 sorties in three days is not a lot for a country the size of Ukraine. Israel would do something like 150 sorties in a single hour just in defenseless tiny northern Gaza.

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## IblinI

Wergeland said:


> Look at the Chinese, nowhere near the ally Russia hoped for. They are getting contained by America in South China Sea but still not a single voice of support from Beijing.


We have some beautiful "angels" praying on the Chinese internet, they are well protected by the country and has never set foot outside, and these angels never prayed for the people in the Mid east, Africa, Syria, Yemen...etc, pathetic bunch.

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## Invicta

QWECXZ said:


> Iran has nothing to lose and Russia has a lot to sell to Iran, including modern jet fighters, submarines, tanks, radars, etc. Iran will happily sign billion dollar military contracts with Russia if Russia no longer worries about Western sanctions.


Iran's thirst for weapons is not enough to prop up Russian defence industry, Russia needs to trade unhindered to progress as a country otherwise clamor for improvement amongst masses becomes untenable and then its revolution time. The Russians love a revolution just like the French.

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## QWECXZ

Invicta said:


> Iran's thirst for weapons is not enough to prop up Russian defence industry, Russia needs to trade unhindered to progress as a country otherwise clamor for improvement amongst masses becomes untenable and then its revolution time. The Russians love a revolution just like the French.


The Russians love a good revolution when they think it is out of their own free will, not when they feel they are being manipulated to go against their national interests by their enemies. The majority of Russians that I have spoken to on the internet completely agree with Putin's foreign policy about NATO's expansion.

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497677174924529670


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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497674148977553411
> Russian supply lines getting overextended



This is the battle of the Bulge moment for sure. Russia's attacks in the north and north east have stalled and those from Crimea are progressing for the Russians for now - but they will never be able to hold that terrority as there are not enough "russian speakers" to keep the land bridge alive if they are forced to withdraw.

The Putin regime had one chance - which was to try and scare Ukraine into surrender - that did not happen and won't happen now.


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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497683911849218053


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## Ali_Baba

kingQamaR said:


> He's seriously underestimated Ukraine. There's a very strong chance that Putin will be finished after this.



Hopefully they will pin his head on a spike outside the Kremlin like they have done with leaders of the old era ( it is important to keep some traditions alive )..

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## Invicta

QWECXZ said:


> The Russians love a good revolution when they think it is out of their own free will, not when they feel they are being manipulated to go against their national interests by their enemies. The majority of Russians that I have spoken to on the internet completely agree with Putin's foreign policy about NATO's expansion.


Opinions change fast when body bags start arriving on your doorstep. We are all assuming the cost of this war, the actual cost of this was will only be known once it is over - if death toll on the Russian side increases questions will be asked and that will be the start.

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497685466640171009

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## Mujahid Memon

Khanate said:


> *Two sides to a story:*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1493251278746570760
> 
> 
> 
> 
> German Nazis were nationalists too and small in numbers.
> 
> Look I support Ukrainians like I supported occupied Afghans, Iraqis, Syrians, Kashmiris and Palestinians.
> 
> It is a principled stance but I don't support bloody Nazis.


Now compare them with our desi aunties


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## QWECXZ

Invicta said:


> Opinions change fast when body bags start arriving on your doorstep. We are all assuming the cost of this war, the actual cost of this was will only be known once it is over - if death toll on the Russian side increases questions will be asked and that will be the start.


True, but the majority of the casualties we read online is nothing but Ukrainian propaganda. It's hard to believe that Ukraine has killed 4000 Russian soldiers but there are no videos to prove even half of these casualties. From what can be seen on the ground, the Russians are advancing towards Kiev and the capital of Ukraine may fall soon, probably in less than 72 hours.

If Putin can impose his will on the Ukrainians and Ukraine accepts neutrality, and a pro-Russian government is installed, support for Putin and his policies will surge to unseen levels and no amount of sanctions can change that in Russia. Sure, some cosmopolitan people in Moscow and Saint Petersburg will despise Putin's foreign policies more than they do now, but Russia is not only Moscow and StP.

Russians are proud people. If you think that sanctions will lead to public dissatisfaction to the point that it can convince the Russians to rise against Putin and hand their country to the West on a silver platter, there's a good chance that it won't happen.

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## M. Sarmad

Khanate said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497669235631431688
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because NATO and Zelenskyy supports occupied Kashmiris and Palestinains... 😜
> 
> View attachment 819054

Reactions: Like Like:
8 | Wow Wow:
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## Bleek

Where the Chechnyas at?


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## Ali_Baba

Invicta said:


> The general feedback is lukewarm, whilst they recognise the reasons for their creation these forces will only work in expeditionary role. Can you imagine UK throwing Ranger Regiment in Kremlins path - it will be a blood bath.
> 
> We recently announced an upgrade to Challenger 2 tanks but I now expect the numbers to be increased as well. I would also like to think that the number of regular army will be increased rapidly and UK will likely try to permanently base some units in Latvia. They might reactivate their German bases which were let go of recently but that might not happen - I am not certain what leverage UK has anymore over Germany to get these bases back. Most likely number of F35s will increase and if that is becoming too costly Tempest will be accelerated to make the numbers up.
> 
> The Navy is doing fine for now but I would expect an increase in the number of Royal Marines to about 30K fighting force with 10K Reserve.



Tempest just got a massive shot in the arm for sure - i think it is more likely to happen.

As for challenger 2 - i think the UK goverment is going to have a hard think about if they want their military supplies to be reliant on Germany - given the way the Germans have been behaving. That programme may get reconfigured in light of what happened and the type of capability we need to rebuild.

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## Falcon29

We need analysis from Russian side. What are their counter measures going to be sanctions and political fallout?

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## RescueRanger

Falcon29 said:


> We need analysis from Russian side. What are their counter measures going to be sanctions and political fallout?











Senior Russian security official issues stark threats to the West


Former President Dmitry Medvedev says Moscow may respond to sanctions by freezing personal assets.




www.aljazeera.com

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## GamoAccu

siegecrossbow said:


> For real?




__
https://www.reddit.com/r/IndiaSpeaks/comments/sw4bkn

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## RescueRanger

MOSCOW, Feb 26 (Reuters) - Russian troops have destroyed a concrete dam built in Ukraine's Kherson Region in 2014 to cut off water to Crimea, the RIA news agency quoted the governor of Russian-annexed Crimea Sergei Aksyonov as saying on Saturday.

Ukraine cut off the fresh water supply to Crimea by damming a canal that had supplied 85% of the peninsula's needs before Moscow annexed Crimea in 2014.

The Soviet-era canal was built to channel water from the River Dnieper to arid areas of Ukraine's Kherson region and Crimea.

Source: https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...dam-that-blocked-water-crimea-ria-2022-02-26/

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## nang2

MH.Yang said:


> To tell you the truth, I often doubt whether you are Chinese. Because you often make great mistakes in your understanding of China, but your Chinese level is beyond doubt.
> 
> The Chinese did not forget the humiliation of the Opium War, but they would not boast about the economic strength of the Qing Dynasty, let alone blame the British for the Opium War. The Chinese hated the incompetence of the Qing government and their own weakness.
> The reason is simple: Although China opposes imperialism, China is very familiar with imperialism. China has a history of 5000 years, at least 4000 years. China itself is an imperialist country. China used to treat other countries with imperialism, so we certainly have no reason to condemn other countries for treating us with imperialism.
> We do not hate Britain, nor boast about the backward and incompetent Qing Dynasty. We hate our own weakness and regret our imperialist history.


I often doubt your ability to read English. I never mentioned anything about the humiliation English had on Chinese during the opium War and after. Yet, you are addressing this point in your response to me. Kind of time waste for both of us.

To reiterate, my point was only to those who imagined a much more glorious and rich day before that humiliation, which is nothing but a wishful thinking. It was not about humiliation. This point is about a realistic understanding of our history. Maybe that humiliation got you so much that the truth means less to you. I am certainly not at that stage and that mental stage is not the definition of being Chinese. If it were, God forbid, China would be hopeless.


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## Khanate

*US military vet feels the war is 'scripted'*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497608623924592642
*Russian 'B' Team*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497608621429084169

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## Ali_Baba

Falcon29 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497685466640171009



Lets not forget the role that Belarus has also played in all of this!

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## Falcon29

RescueRanger said:


> Senior Russian security official issues stark threats to the West
> 
> 
> Former President Dmitry Medvedev says Moscow may respond to sanctions by freezing personal assets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com


Thank you, it doesn't seem like much for now. We will have to wait to see how it plays out.

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## RescueRanger

GamoAccu said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/IndiaSpeaks/comments/sw4bkn


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## Abid123

jamal18 said:


> Excellent program on the background to the war. Obviously, not MSM ( mainstream media).
> About 40 mins.


Thank you for sharing.

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## Invicta

QWECXZ said:


> True, but the majority of the casualties we read online is nothing but Ukrainian propaganda. It's hard to believe that Ukraine has killed 4000 Russian soldiers but there are no videos to prove even half of these casualties. From what can be seen on the ground, the Russians are advancing towards Kiev and the capital of Ukraine may fall soon, probably in less than 72 hours.
> 
> If Putin can impose its will on the Ukrainians and Ukraine accepts neutrality, and a pro-Russian government is installed, support for Putin and his policies will surge to unseen levels and no amount of sanctions can change that in Russia. Sure, some cosmopolitan people in Moscow and Saint Petersburg will despise Putin's foreign policies more than they do now, but Russia is not only Moscow and StP.
> 
> Russians are proud people. If you think that sanctions will lead to public dissatisfaction to the point that it can convince the Russians to rise against Putin and *hand their country to the West on a silver platter*, there's a good chance that it won't happen.


Its all propaganda until its confirmed and that is true for both sides the real story of this miserable war will only come out after its over - that is if any think or anyone is left to read about it. 

Lets see - if what news are showing is true than its going to take a lot of heavy firepower to get the now dug in Ukrainians to give up. Remember Stalingrad - there is a reason Germans failed to capture it.

Not a platter mate - more like some one more sane will take the helm and steer the Russian ship to pastures anew. Russia has gone through many a regime change not one of them was on a platter for anyone.

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## Mujahid Memon

lastofthepatriots said:


> I was just providing information. I’m not a fanboy nor do I support Azov. As a Pakistani, it’s not my fight. But I always hold sympathies for nations defending against aggressors or invaders.


It's ironic how some Pakistanis are supporting naked Russian aggression against a sovereign country even though their government is a Western puppet doesn't mean that any random country should start bombing them. This is the similar type of aggression as what US/NATO did in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya. We were also in the same shoes as that of Ukraine today during Soviet-Afghan war.

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## gambit

Wergeland said:


> Sickening picture @gambit what you say about this? Do you as a freedom loving people condone these nazis?


What is the point of asking me of this? Do you think that I, an *Asian*-American, have Nazi beliefs? I thought you to be a more serious person.

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## jamal18

Mujahid Memon said:


> Now compare them with our desi aunties


This is not reality.

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## IblinI

Wergeland said:


> But when it comes to real trouble China will back off.


When the time comes, we send in million troops to fought with US and its lackey when we were dirrrrrt poor in 1950s.

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497688642583683076

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## Invicta

Ali_Baba said:


> Tempest just got a massive shot in the arm for sure - i think it is more likely to happen.
> 
> As for challenger 2 - i think the UK goverment is going to have a hard think about if they want their military supplies to be reliant on Germany - given the way the Germans have been behaving. That programme may get reconfigured in light of what happened and the type of capability we need to rebuild.


Its positive news for Tempest, with regards to Challenger 2 its not all that bad they decided to change the main gun and went with Rheinmetall's offering. I am hedging my bets that the armoured brigade will get an increase in numbers and they will permanently station armoured units in Latvia.


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## gambit

Cryptic_Mafia said:


> this is Cuban missile crisis all over again! but this time its Nato thats moving the missile and not Russia/Ussr


I asked if you have any doc that detailed an agreement between NATO and Russia that says NATO will not expand eastward. Looks like you have none.

On the other hand, there is a *WRITTEN* agreement where Russia promised Ukraine that Russia will not attack Ukraine, and that agreement was witnessed by countries, not individuals. Do you know what am talking about? Can you research and find it?


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## Bearbearbot

Very interesting and timely discussion on what's happening with the ukraine crisis.
They even have a guest that is in Kiev right now joining them @ timestamp : 1.44.08

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## jamal18

Mujahid Memon said:


> It's ironic how some Pakistanis are supporting naked Russian aggression against a sovereign country even though their government is a Western puppet doesn't mean that any random country should start bombing them. This is the similar type of aggression as what US/NATO did in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya. We were also in the same shoes as that of Ukraine today during Soviet-Afghan war.



I suggest you read the large amount of information available on this thread. Some say the war began in 2014, others might argue longer.

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## gambit

T90TankGuy said:


> Can anyone really trust what Russia said? i mean really , Putin??? he is worse than our exalted dear leader.


No one should have blind trust to anyone, and that includes trust to US. I like what Raygun once said: "Trust, but verify."

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## Invicta

Ali_Baba said:


> Lets not forget the role that Belarus has also played in all of this!


I really hope their actions don't slip through the nets, they need to be B slapped for their actions. I hope the Poles, Latvians and Lithuanians give them hell from now on.


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## Stealth

F-22Raptor said:


> Just stop, you and I both know that's not true



Thats true buddy… Russians haven’t used their real air combat power else the results could have been very different and dangerous. Russians strictly avoiding civilian casualties and mass destruction and collateral else they can easily send formation of Su-34 & TU 160 blacjack to neutralize entire Ukraine piece of shit force, AD whatever they have with in hour quite frankly…

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## Dariush the Great

Invicta said:


> Its all propaganda until its confirmed and that is true for both sides the real story of this miserable war will only come out after its over - that is if any think or anyone is left to read about it.
> 
> Lets see - if what news are showing is true than its going to take a lot of heavy firepower to get the now dug in Ukrainians to give up. Remember Stalingrad - there is a reason Germans failed to capture it.
> 
> Not a platter mate - more like some one more sane will take the helm and steer the Russian ship to pastures anew. Russia has gone through many a regime change not one of them was on a platter for anyone.


Stalingrad, Ukrainians? ROFL... where do you get that idea?

Ukrainians are too much of a sissies to replicate the great warriors at stalingrad. Most Ukrainians are more into LGBT gay parade, wannabe EU stuff.

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## Khanate

*Chernigov*:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497680246606376970
*Zaporozhye*:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497684335343935490
*Nikolayev*:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497672661719302155
*Kiev*:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497665448980144128


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## Mujahid Memon

jamal18 said:


> I suggest you read the large amount of information available on this thread. Some say the war began in 2014, others might argue longer.


Yes the naked aggression began in 2014 when Russia attacked Crimea. So what?

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## HttpError

Ali_Baba said:


> Lets not forget the role that Belarus has also played in all of this!



I think they will sanction Belarus along with Russia.


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## Indus Pakistan

gambit said:


> "Trust, but verify."


Yep, I remember that.


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## RescueRanger

PRAGUE, Feb 26 (Reuters) - The Czech government approved on Saturday sending weapons and ammunition worth 188 million crowns ($8.57 million) to help Ukraine defend itself against Russia's attack, the Czech Defence Ministry said.

The shipment, which includes machine guns, assault rifles and other light weapons, will be delivered by the Czech side to a location picked by Ukraine, the ministry said.

"Our help is not over!" the ministry said on Twitter.

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## GamoAccu

Russia-Ukraine crisis: Came to Ukraine for studies, Indian student now taking combat training | Ground report


Amid the Ukraine-Russia crisis and the fear of possible war, India Today spoke to Sai, an Indian student in Ukraine, who is undergoing combat training. Sai is now part of the Georgian Legion, undergoing training in Kyiv.




www.indiatoday.in

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## Mujahid Memon

jamal18 said:


> This is not reality.


That specifically may not be reality but its not a mystery that Eastern European women are much more involved in nation-building productive work rather than our gossip aunties.

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## The Eagle

GamoAccu said:


> Any update on this Indian volunteer fighter?
> 
> View attachment 819050



He lost his airgun while on the way to Ukraine on motorbike. Status Unknown. Last time was seen in Assam.

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## Indus Pakistan

HttpError said:


> I think they will sanction Belarus along with Russia.


I struggle to see how sanctions will hurt Russia. She has China on her flank and can use the gas pipelines to apply pressure on Western Europe.


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## letsrock

gambit said:


> No one should have blind trust to anyone, and that includes trust to US. I like what Raygun once said: "Trust, but verify."



Thats not Reagan though. Its a russian proverb he took a liking to. in fact gorbachev complained he uses it too much.


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## LeGenD

Khanate said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497187499386540033
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497258980040589313



Absolutely.

People can say whatever about Volodymyr Zelensky but this man is not Ashraf Ghani. He has honor and willing to fight for his country. This is commendable.





__





Boris Johnson speaks to President Zelensky as battle for Kyiv rages






www.msn.com













Ukraine’s Zelensky proclaims ‘we survived the night’ in post-Kyiv attack message


Volodymyr Zelensky reaffirmed his commitment to fight against the Russian invasion at a news briefing in the Ukrainian capital, refusing an American offer to evacuate. “Th…




nypost.com

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## The Eagle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497682496246493194



How much 5hey lost in Syria by the way?


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## Invicta

Dariush the Great said:


> Stalingrad, Ukrainians? ROFL... where do you get that idea?
> 
> Ukrainians are too much of a sissies to replicate the great warriors at stalingrad. Most Ukrainians are more into LGBT gay parade, wannabe EU stuff.


Time will tell if your homophobic assumption is correct or not.

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## ZeEa5KPul

It would be the biggest troll move of the century for Russia to demand payment from Yurup for gas in gold. No dollars, no Euros, no Yuan, no paper currency. *Bricks of gold.*

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## Dalit

T90TankGuy said:


> Can anyone really trust what Russia said? i mean really , Putin??? he is worse than our exalted dear leader.



Should we trust what the USA says?

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## QWECXZ

Invicta said:


> Its all propaganda until its confirmed and that is true for both sides the real story of this miserable war will only come out after its over - that is if any think or anyone is left to read about it.
> 
> Lets see - if what news are showing is true than its going to take a lot of heavy firepower to get the now dug in Ukrainians to give up. Remember Stalingrad - there is a reason Germans failed to capture it.
> 
> Not a platter mate - more like some one more sane will take the helm and steer the Russian ship to pastures anew. Russia has gone through many a regime change not one of them was on a platter for anyone.


I don't see how Stalingrad is a good example for this war because well, first of all Stalingrad is a Russian city and secondly, the Germans lacked proper technology and logistics to endure cold Russian winters in 1940s.

Anyway, why would Russians want a revolution? The only reason that Russian people may want a revolution would be for better economic conditions. But do you think the Russians would sell their country to the West for temporary improvement in their economic conditions? Do you think Russians, being one of the largest empires of history, do not have the vision to understand that sacrificing their national security will not lead to a better future for them?

Also, you are assuming that the problem is Putin. But this may very well not be true. Russians feel threatened by NATO's expansionist policies and they have felt humiliated for far too long after the dissolution of the Soviet Union. It's not like Putin didn't give diplomacy a chance. Putin could've done this back in 2014, but back then he hoped that the West would accept him as an equal and give Russia a share of power in global affairs without a need for military confrontation. The whole concept of tandemocracy in Russia was about cooperation with the West instead of confrontation. Instead, the West continued to disrespect him and interpreted his patience as weakness until this happened. Putin has made the decision of invading Ukraine fully aware of its political and economic consequences and the majority of Russians seem to agree with him. Hence, I do not see why a patriotic revolution is necessary and how it can change the situation for Ukraine or the West, if not make the situation worse.

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## PakAlp

Falcon29 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497688642583683076



Russia will likely overtake all that is east and south from the red line, Russian separatists will rule this area, Ukraine military will be defeated and military infrastructure destroyed, if Ukraine becomes neutral then job done by Russia.

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## The Eagle

Khanate said:


> *US military vet feels the war is 'scripted'*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497608623924592642
> *Russian 'B' Team*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497608621429084169



He is alone exposing all the media portrayed victory of Ukraine. Honestly, if we look at media, it gives impression like Russia has lost some 10k soldiers. I don't know who's just cornering and taking over little by little of Ukrainian cities.

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## Falcon29

PakAlp said:


> Russia will likely overtake all that is east and south from the red line, Russian separatists will rule this area, Ukraine military will be defeated and military infrastructure destroyed, if Ukraine becomes neutral then job done by Russia.
> 
> 
> View attachment 819067


I think this is the plan too.

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## siegecrossbow

GamoAccu said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/IndiaSpeaks/comments/sw4bkn



Yikes. Ukraine has lost for sure.

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## Dariush the Great

Invicta said:


> Time will tell if your homophobic assumption is correct or not.


Nothing against gay people at all. I even reply them.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497693399083798531

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## nufix

lastofthepatriots said:


> He’s literally crying on live.


Where‘s the video?


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## Khanate

LeGenD said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> People can say whatever about Volodymyr Zelensky but this man is not Ashraf Ghani. He has honor and willing to fight for his country. This is commendable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Boris Johnson speaks to President Zelensky as battle for Kyiv rages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine’s Zelensky proclaims ‘we survived the night’ in post-Kyiv attack message
> 
> 
> Volodymyr Zelensky reaffirmed his commitment to fight against the Russian invasion at a news briefing in the Ukrainian capital, refusing an American offer to evacuate. “Th…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nypost.com




True, true!

Ghani was a loser but there are other examples of leaders fighting for their people

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497491614511640577

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## PakAlp

Falcon29 said:


> I think this is the plan too.



Russia will not be able to occupy Ukraine like the USA had done to Afghanistan and Iraq. It costs too much money and the cost of human lives comes back to hurt. I expected the separatists to take more land but it seems they are very slow. Putin stated we have 40% Russian speaking people in Ukraine and if that is correct then they can rule the new state, it will be a buffer state between Russia and Ukraine, Ukraine will also be neutral. The most difficult part will be to overtake Kiev.

Russia will control the black sea, will have border with Moldova and Romania.

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## nufix

GamoAccu said:


> Russia-Ukraine crisis: Came to Ukraine for studies, Indian student now taking combat training | Ground report
> 
> 
> Amid the Ukraine-Russia crisis and the fear of possible war, India Today spoke to Sai, an Indian student in Ukraine, who is undergoing combat training. Sai is now part of the Georgian Legion, undergoing training in Kyiv.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.indiatoday.in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 819066


What is the regulation in India for its nationals who fight for other countries? 

In Indonesia for example, if an indonesian citizen is found to have fought under banners other than the indonesian one, he would lose his citizenship and will never be able to get that back. Hundreds of former Indonesians who joined ISIS in 2014 are now stranded in refugee camps in Turkey along with their children because Indonesia refused to recognize them as Indonesian. The same applied to an ex indonesian who joined FFL.


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## Khanate

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497669654155833344

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497696874316414984

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## FuturePAF

arjunk said:


> That is ARMA 3 and this is an A-10 which neither side operates anyway.


My apologies, you are right, ARMA 3. They must have borrowed the A-10 from the PAF after seeing how effective it was last year


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## Invicta

QWECXZ said:


> I don't see how Stalingrad is a good example for this war because well, first of all Stalingrad is a Russian city and secondly, the Germans lacked proper technology and logistics to endure cold Russian winters in 1940s.
> 
> Anyway, why would Russians want a revolution? The only reason that Russian people may want a revolution would be for better economic conditions. But do you think the Russians would sell their country to the West for temporary improvement in their economic conditions? Do you think Russians, being one of the largest empires of history, do not have the vision to understand that sacrificing their national security will not lead to a better future for them?
> 
> Also, you are assuming that the problem is Putin. But this may very well not be true. Russians feel threatened by NATO's expansionist policies and they have felt humiliated for far too long after the dissolution of the Soviet Union. It's not like Putin didn't give diplomacy a chance. Putin could've done this back in 2014, but back then he hoped that the West would accept him as an equal and give Russia a share of power in global affairs without a need for military confrontation. The whole concept of tandemocracy in Russia was about cooperation with the West instead of confrontation. Instead, the West continued to disrespect him and interpreted his patience as weakness until this happened. Putin has made the decision of invading Ukraine fully aware of its political and economic consequences and the majority of Russians seem to agree with him. Hence, I do not see why a patriotic revolution is necessary and how it can change the situation for Ukraine or the West, if not make the situation worse.


Kiev is a Ukrainian city they are fighting at home, I don't know what kind of history they teach in Iran - German army was at the time the most advanced and well equipped, similar to Russians vs Ukrainians today. The Germans did not anticipate stiff resistance in short they though everyone is French.

The whole purpose of sanctions is to destabilise the economic condition in Russia this could trigger Putin's end. As I said before the Russians had - had regime changes before and they have never been done to appease the west rather to change the direction the country is taking. 

The whole problem is Putin - he has some 5-10 years left before the next big shot at KGB/FSB (or whatever its called these days) takes over. You know about Stalin, you probably have heard about Gorbachev, I think you probably also know about Tsar Nicholas. What do remember Putin for in the next 20-30 years? What is his Legacy? What will the history books say about him?

He has played his hand - if it backfires he is going to be in a lot of pain.

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## gambit

Wergeland said:


> There is a clear ideological angle to your perception of this conflict. Which of course is perfectly ok. But for me,* ideology is a mere vessel for transmuting the actual geopolitical goals into reality.*


I agree with you there.



Wergeland said:


> It is forexample a historical fact that the Soviet Union was one of the driving forces behind de-colonization, after the second world war. I regard every form of colonialism as tyranny thus in my book there was positive sides of Soviet Union. During this period the United States OTOH was often in support of the colonial master, be it the Dutch in South Africa with it Apartheid Regime or Portugal with its reluctancy to give up Goa in India or the French who of course till this day still treat west Africa as its own backyard.


That is interesting because the relationships between the Kremlin and various vassal Soviet states were very much that of colonialism. Every decision must be approved by Soviet Russia. The only difference, rarely acknowledge even by those of the American and European Left, is the absence of the word 'colonialism' in those relationships because 'colonialism' usually have a racist taint. So by ejecting racists from power, the Soviet Union have at least a facade of benevolence in its quest for ideological dominance, which leads back to what you said earlier about 'transmuting geopolitical goals into reality'.



Wergeland said:


> Then he have US actions in Middle East the past 20 years, which is a chapter on its own. Just for the fact, about 3-10 million civillian people have been killed from the direct consequences of these wars. What is this if not tyranny? It certainly wasnt Russia who killed all these people.


Tyranny *FOR* what? As in *FOR* land, oil, gold, women? What does the ME have that the US do not have that we want?



Wergeland said:


> How to know if Putin will be settled if Ukraine and Belarus would have been agreed to made into buffer zones? Well we dont know. But that is irrelevant for NATO. Because we dont have to know what Putin wants to do. All we need to know is what WE want to do. Where OUR red lines are drawn. In my book that red line is any form attack on any member state is regarded as attack on all member states. Couldnt be any clearer than that.


Look at it this way...

NATO is tactical or immediate. Guessing if Russia is content with just buffer states is strategic or delayed. A shield give you time to negotiate the future. That shield is NATO. So yes, an attack on one member *MUST* be construed as an attack on all. But relying only on the shield is being shortsighted. Currently, we are standing behind the NATO shield watching a tyrant conquering a country nearest to him while conceding that maybe he will satisfied, but if he does not our shield will protect us when his sword smashes upon us.

Call me an idealist if you want, but that is not how the world should operate.


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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497694323474849796


pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497696874316414984



And Gaza is a tiny defenseless strip of land being attacked by the most powerful ME nation. With up to 300 sorties or more a day. Targeting mostly homes and other civilian infrastructure as there are few military targets there. So, they target homes of Hamas family members/relatives.


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## Amaa'n

Please keep trolling and posting off topic crap so its easy for Mods to clean the forum once for all….

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## SIPRA

khail007 said:


> Is it yours? Anyhow, really marvelous. Appreciated.



No. The poet was elder brother of my father.

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## Oldman1

PakAlp said:


> Russia will not be able to occupy Ukraine like the USA had done to Afghanistan and Iraq. It costs too much money and the cost of human lives comes back to hurt. I expected the separatists to take more land but it seems they are very slow. Putin stated we have 40% Russian speaking people in Ukraine and if that is correct then they can rule the new state, it will be a buffer state between Russia and Ukraine, Ukraine will also be neutral. The most difficult part will be to overtake Kiev.
> 
> Russia will control the black sea, will have border with Moldova and Romania.



From what I'm ready on twitter, the Russian's are right now having logistics problems like running out of fuel after days of fighting and moving around. They avoiding cities because they WILL have a hard time taking one.


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## RescueRanger

PakAlp said:


> Russia will not be able to occupy Ukraine like the USA had done to Afghanistan and Iraq. It costs too much money and the cost of human lives comes back to hurt. I expected the separatists to take more land but it seems they are very slow. Putin stated we have 40% Russian speaking people in Ukraine and if that is correct then they can rule the new state, it will be a buffer state between Russia and Ukraine, Ukraine will also be neutral. The most difficult part will be to overtake Kiev.


Ukraine isn't Afghanistan, the USAF bombed the shit out of those mountains. In Early December 2001, the USAF dropped a 15,000 bomb off the back of a C130 in Tora Bora which shook the mountains for miles after impact. In April of 2017, the US went one step further and dropped a 21000lbs MOAB on an ISIS tunnel complex. 

Based on available statistics between 2006 and 2019 the allied forces dropped *47,081 bombs in Afghanistan. Let that sink in!*

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## Oldman1



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## PakAlp

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> Please keep trolling and posting off topic crap so its easy for Mods to clean the forum once for all….



Can people please share updates and then leave a comment, instead of countless propaganda/silly comments. Its very difficult to go through page by page of useless comments. Thank you

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## Khanate



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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497561405406552065

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## gambit

monitor said:


> Same goes for Russia too. If anyone **** with Russians they can send them to stone age too.


But in this case, Russia made a *WRITTEN* promise to Ukraine not to attack Ukraine. You did not know that?

The deal was that if Ukraine did <something> then Russia would not attack Ukraine. Then Ukraine agreed and completed that <something> to complete satisfaction. That <something> was verified by 3rd party countries, not individuals, and Russia agreed that <something> was done to satisfaction. You did not know that?

So who was fvkcing with Russia to provoke this invasion? Please do not bring up NATO. That argument died a long time ago and is now zombied to be used by those ignorant of that deal. Inside that deal that Russia agreed to, NATO was not mentioned.

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## Dariush the Great

Are there any pics/videos from the ''downed Russian IL-76''? or was it just fake Ukro twitter news?

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## CAPRICORN-88



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## PakAlp

RescueRanger said:


> Ukraine isn't Afghanistan, the USAF bombed the shit out of those mountains. In Early December 2001, the USAF dropped a 15,000 bomb off the back of a C130 in Tora Bora which shook the mountains for miles after impact. In April of 2017, the US went one step further and dropped a 21000lbs MOAB on an ISIS tunnel complex.
> 
> Based on available statistics between 2006 and 2019 the allied forces dropped *47,081 bombs in Afghanistan. Let that sink in!*



In Afghanistan they allied with the Northern alliance to overtake the country, then paid the warlords to keep in control, in Iraq they used the Kurds and anti Saddam Shia arabs to overtake the country. Russia can only achieve their objective if the Russian speaking and anti Ukrainian government parties become pro Russia, otherwise Russia will fail, they will not be able to occupy the country for too long.


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## Oldman1

Germany now going to supply weapons to Ukraine.


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## The Eagle

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497669654155833344



If these are the Ukrainians fighting Russia, god forbid, Zekensky still has time to not to fall for FOX type cheerleaders on the sidelines. I say that misleading and falsified portrayal will surely cost Ukraine more than they could just do it silently. 

Currently, it is like situation on ground Versus media portrayal. In the end, reality matters for those living in there. Rest of the world will keep talking about all those fantasized accomplishments.

The world of narrative building only believes in history as they want and nit what it will be in reality.

Fake news media outlets and propaganda mouthpieces should be held responsible for every loss if Ukraine is totally lost. Most of the world will be like damn man; they were wining on news and of situation was that bad, at-least someone could have tried meditate. On the same time, Ukrainians.at receiving end will be cursing these liars that put them to death for covering ground reality. In the end it will be just a blame game.

I am repeating myself that we shall not believe everything being said by parties with their own interests. At this point of time, only Ukrainians or Russian lives are at risk. Rest of the world is just waiting as if the weak one losses the fight but at-least, the victor will be exhausted and unable to catch breath quickly so by that time, further opponents will have opportunity to take him down.

All the solidarity and support for Ukraine due to their alleged fight against an oppressor or so-called invader is a drama. Otherwise, Palestinian and Kashmiris would have been helped with same urgency, dedication and love for defender type logic, long ago.

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## Invicta

Dariush the Great said:


> Nothing against gay people at all. I even reply them.


Its good to know your presumptuous self can try to be humorous and as far as sissies are concerned the only sissies I know of are based in the Middle East shouting to end the Zionists once and for all.

Still waiting for that to happen.


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## kingQamaR

CAPRICORN-88 said:


>



For those saying Ukraine should surrender because Putin won't would you say that if it was your country? These Ukrainian men are fighting for their country, their way of life, their homes, businesses and their loved ones. I hope they kick Russia's ***. If you want to see brave men fighting for what they believe in look to Ukraine.

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## American Pakistani

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497561405406552065


Same for Indian Illegally occupied Jammu and Kashmir.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497697749357236224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497697750397460484

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## QWECXZ

Invicta said:


> Kiev is a Ukrainian city they are fighting at home, I don't know what kind of history they teach in Iran - German army was at the time the most advanced and well equipped, similar to Russians vs Ukrainians today. The Germans did not anticipate stiff resistance in short they though everyone is French.
> 
> The whole purpose of sanctions is to destabilise the economic condition in Russia this could trigger Putin's end. As I said before the Russians had - had regime changes before and they have never been done to appease the west rather to change the direction the country is taking.
> 
> The whole problem is Putin - he has some 5-10 years left before the next big shot at KGB/FSB (or whatever its called these days) takes over. You know about Stalin, you probably have heard about Gorbachev, I think you probably also know about Tsar Nicholas. What do remember Putin for in the next 20-30 years? What is his Legacy? What will the history books say about him?
> 
> He has played his hand - if it backfires he is going to be in a lot of pain.


You named Stalingrad, not Kiev. I don't see how Kiev is similar to Stalingrad for the reasons I mentioned already. The Germans had been overextended all over Europe, they were fighting in several fronts and the engines of their tanks stalled in the cold weather and their infantry could not advance. Their soldiers froze alive and Soviet snipers took them out. It wasn't just pure resistance, it was also a combination technology limits of 1940s and the lack of logistics to endure the Russian winter. This was probably one of the reasons that the Germans decided to put the engine in the back. None of these issues are relevant to this war. And I don't get why you brought it up.

And I explained to you that public dissatisfaction cannot manipulate Russians into rising against Putin and handing their country to you on a silver platter. Russia is not some banana republic created by the British or the Americans in the middle of nowhere. It is a country with about 7 centuries of history and a strong sense of patriotism and love for the Fatherland.

Well, history books may talk about him as the savior of Russia after the Yeltsin period. He recovered the Russian economy in the 21st century, thanks to your stupidity for attacking Iraq and driving oil prices to above $100 per barrel, and he finally took action against the expansionism of NATO. I think your history books may not talk well of him, but Russian books will probably be written by different authors, thinking completely differently.

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## The Eagle

Khanate said:


> True, true!
> 
> Ghani was a loser but there are other examples of leaders fighting for their people
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497491614511640577



Ghani, Mohib or Amarullah are insults to even a comedian like Zekensky. Zekensky at-least won the heart for showing some courage.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Dariush the Great said:


> Are there any pics/videos from the ''downed Russian IL-76''? or was it just fake Ukro twitter news?


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## Dariush the Great

Invicta said:


> Its good to know your presumptuous self can try to be humorous and as far as sissies are concerned the only sissies I know of are based in the Middle East shouting to end the Zionists once and for all.
> 
> Still waiting for that to happen.


You brought up the ME region. A reminder why ME people should never support the '' new democratic ukraine''.

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## nufix

kingQamaR said:


> For those saying Ukraine should surrender because Putin won't would you say that if it was your country? These Ukrainian men are fighting for their country, their way of life, their homes, businesses and their loved ones. I hope they kick Russia's ***. If you want to see brave men fighting for what they believe in look to Ukraine.


Not Ukraine, their president and his government.


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## Oldman1

beijingwalker said:


> Russia almost took over the entire Ukraine in hours, it's mindblowing! if this is slow, I don't know what is fast...


Have you looked at the map? No they haven't taken all of Ukraine in hours. Its way too big!


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## Khanate

*President Biden SNAFU*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497340903643566091

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## PakAlp

Oldman1 said:


> From what I'm ready on twitter, the Russian's are right now having logistics problems like running out of fuel after days of fighting and moving around. They avoiding cities because they WILL have a hard time taking one.



Occupying bigger cities will cost human lives, Russia realises this will bite them hard. I pray they come to an agreement and the war stops. The Ukrainian government must be getting encouragement from Nato to keep fighting. For Russia this is a big test, if they fail they are screwed and will loose the status of being the mighty Russia. Nato will then expand more. Usa the super power used to hide in Iraq and Afghanistan bases.

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## Oldman1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497388536030535681
Wounded Russian troops taken to Ukrainian hospital.


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## LeGenD

Foinikas said:


> View attachment 818634



This is disingenuous.

1. Iraq invaded and annexed Kuwait in 1990. US-led forces protected KSA and liberated Kuwait in 1991 with UN mandate.

2. Yugoslavian Civil War and its implications.

3. Yugoslavian Civil War and its implications.

4. Home to Al-Qaeda Network which was responsible for numerous terrorists attacks around the world including 9/11. US-led forces dismantled Al-Qaeda Network in the region with UN mandate.

5. Controversial development but the oppressive Saddam regime is gone for good?

6. Qaddafi regime was about to commit genocide in politically rebellious Benghazi.

7. Assad regime is responsible for destruction of Syria.

Can WE stop making excuses for oppressive dictators?

I have marked that post as trolling and removed it. Let this be a reminder that sheer amount of likes on a post won't make it exempt to judgement.

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## Oldman1

PakAlp said:


> Occupying bigger cities will cost human lives, Russia realises this will bite them hard. I pray they come to an agreement and the war stops. The Ukrainian government must be getting encouragement from Nato to keep fighting. For Russia this is a big test, if they fail they are screwed and will loose the status of being the mighty Russia. Nato will then expand more.



Not to mention the resupply of weapons from U.S. and U.K. besides them but other European countries, even Germany have changed their minds and decided to supply weapons.


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## F-22Raptor

Many here will never admit it, but the US force of Desert Storm would roll todays Russian military. 

Brutal honesty

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497674962236227584


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497675902326607877

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## Oldman1

This is whats going on the last day or so.

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## ZeEa5KPul

Oldman1 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497388536030535681
> Wounded Russian troops taken to Ukrainian hospital.


Like it's impossible to paint "Z" on a truck.


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## Wergeland

Is defence.pk a american run website? 
Or is it HQ in Pakistan?

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## fitpOsitive

F-22Raptor said:


> Many here will never admit it, but the US force of Desert Storm would roll todays Russian military.
> 
> Brutal honesty


Sure. It becomes more true when we consider Russias striking capability within USA.


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## Oldman1

PakAlp said:


> Occupying bigger cities will cost human lives, Russia realises this will bite them hard. I pray they come to an agreement and the war stops. The Ukrainian government must be getting encouragement from Nato to keep fighting. For Russia this is a big test, if they fail they are screwed and will loose the status of being the mighty Russia. Nato will then expand more. Usa the super power used to hide in Iraq and Afghanistan bases.



Forgot to mention besides occupying a city, but you have to leave a large force behind to keep it while moving on.


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## Hydration

F-22Raptor said:


> Many here will never admit it, but the US force of Desert Storm would roll todays Russian military.
> 
> Brutal honesty


Atleast the russians dont excute civilians in groups with apaches

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## QWECXZ

Oldman1 said:


> Forgot to mention besides occupying a city, but you have to leave a large force behind to keep it while moving on.


They do not want to annex Kiev and administer it. They want to force Ukraine to accept neutrality and guarantee that it will never join NATO and they probably want to install a pro-Russian government as well. Russia does not need to invade Ukraine as there are many Russian people living in Ukraine that can achieve their goals for them, including Ukrainian politicians of Russian origin.

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## Foinikas

LeGenD said:


> This is disingenuous.
> 
> 1. Iraq invaded and annexed Kuwait in 1990. US-led forces protected KSA and liberated Kuwait in 1991 with UN mandate.
> 
> 2. Yugoslavian Civil War and its implications.
> 
> 3. Yugoslavian Civil War and its implications.
> 
> 4. Home to Al-Qaeda Network which was responsible for numerous terrorists attacks around the world including 9/11. US-led forces dismantled Al-Qaeda Network in the region with UN mandate.
> 
> 5. Controversial development but the oppressive Saddam regime is gone for good?
> 
> 6. Qaddafi regime was about to commit genocide in politically rebellious Benghazi.
> 
> 7. Assad regime is responsible for destruction of Syria.
> 
> Can WE stop making excuses for oppressive dictators?
> 
> I have marked that post as trolling and removed it. Let this be a reminder that sheer amount of likes on a post won't make it exempt to judgement.


The question is:

Is NATO the policeman of the world?

Yes I know,it's all about power and interests. But I can't listen to hypocritical statements from NATO leaders when they've gone on a tour bombing the world and meddling in other people's affairs.

And if Americans decide that Kosovo deserves independence,they can't say Crimea or Donbass can't be independent.

You know what I mean. Yes Saddam had to be stopped the first time. But all the countries who have meddled in the affairs of so many countries and literally changed them,can't complain about Putin and Russia.

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## Oldman1

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Like it's impossible to paint "Z" on a truck.


You can believe it or not. Thats your choice. Just as believe the Russians have won the war in 48 hours as some posters claimed.


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## Khanate

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497201072288448513



The Eagle said:


> Ghani, Mohib or Amarullah are insults to even a comedian like Zekensky. Zekensky at-least won the heart for showing some courage.




Worse then clowns!

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## PakAlp

Oldman1 said:


> Forgot to mention besides occupying a city, but you have to leave a large force behind to keep it while moving on.



I agree, with the west resupply of weapons it will become difficult for Russia. Russian separatists are the key, if they are in hundred of thousands and can hold the cities and defend then Russia can use them as a buffer zone and create a separatists state. 

Meanwhile Russia main allies China, Iran, India, Syria are quiet 😕


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## shanipisces2002

casual said:


> Russian promised to not violate Ukraine sovereignty if Ukraine promised it wouldn't try to join NATO as part of the Minsk agreement. Ukraine reneged.


Well that idiot zelensky he wanted to join nato and eu and he fuked his country even Russia warned him not to do it still he inclined towards the nato and eu why? 
However I do condemn putin to attack Russia instead he should started placing nukes on Venezuela, Mexico, Argentina and Cuba 😏


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## pkuser2k12



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## Oldman1

QWECXZ said:


> They do not want to annex Kiev and administer it. They want to force Ukraine to accept neutrality and guarantee that it will never join NATO and they probably want to install a pro-Russian government as well. Russia does not need to invade Ukraine as there are many Russian people living in Ukraine that can achieve their goals for them, including Ukrainian politicians of Russian origin.



They want all of Ukraine, but in the reality as you have seen, you can't so what do you try to do? Hit the capital and hope Kiev surrenders. Got yourself a large country added without much cost. Why the hell would you believe they won't annex after just recognizing Luhansk and Donbass which will join Russia later because they don't want to look like invaders and take em by force but make it look like the locals got independence and will ask to join Russia afterwards, not to mention freakining invading Ukraine immediately after recognizing *independence for those two regions now prior to preparing invasion force the last few months*. And let's not get started with Green men invading Crimea and annexing that as well couple of years ago.

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## RescueRanger

I've Geo Located the position from where Ukranian's attacked a Russian Su-25 with MANPADS. 

*The Original video:*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497664378182774787
Location: 46.64*N , 36.62*E

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## Hydration

QWECXZ said:


> They do not want to annex Kiev and administer it. They want to force Ukraine to accept neutrality and guarantee that it will never join NATO and they probably want to install a pro-Russian government as well. Russia does not need to invade Ukraine as there are many Russian people living in Ukraine that can achieve their goals for them, including Ukrainian politicians of Russian origin.


I wouldve guessed that the russians would have a very high civllian cassulty rate but i was suprised that they actually care tgey took the power station of kiev yet they didnt cut the power and have taken measure to limit cassulties on civillians while some "neo-nazis" as they call them just outright abolish this term with other natiolist and mistake civillian cars for russian spies by weapons given to them by the goverment, some ukranians who surrendred were treated greatly and one reasoned their surrendering with "Its better to have peace with our brethern than to fight them for an enemy who only made excuses"

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## jamal18

Mujahid Memon said:


> Yes the naked aggression began in 2014 when Russia attacked Crimea. So what?



Keep believing that.

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## pkuser2k12

LeGenD said:


> 1. Iraq invaded and annexed Kuwait in 1990. US-led forces protected KSA and liberated Kuwait in 1991 with UN mandate





LeGenD said:


> .
> 2. Yugoslavian Civil War and its implications.




did UN mandate sanctioned this



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497172818899144706
USA used depleted uranium in Yugoslavian war as a result Serbia then part of Yugoslavia has now high cancer rates


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496551705336549380

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## nufix

F-22Raptor said:


> Many here will never admit it, but the US force of Desert Storm would roll todays Russian military.
> 
> Brutal honesty



Then why the US is not doing it? If it is so easy as you said, the US would have done it already.

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## QWECXZ

Oldman1 said:


> They want all of Ukraine, but in the reality as you have seen, you can't so what do you try to do? Hit the capital and hope Kiev surrenders. Got yourself a large country added without much cost. Why the hell would you believe they won't annex after just recognizing Luhansk and Donbass which will join Russia later because they don't want to look like invaders and take em by force but make it look like the locals got independence and will ask to join Russia afterwards, not to mention freakining invading Ukraine immediately after recognizing *independence for those two regions now prior to preparing invasion force the last few months*. And let's not get started with Green men invading Crimea and annexing that as well couple of years ago.


That's your claim, not what Russian authorities have claimed, but even if so and even if we assume you're right, full invasion of Ukraine and wiping it off the map is not on the agenda for this war. It may be in future, but right now Russia is focusing on a national security matter rather than just expansionist ambitions. Russia doesn't want NATO right there at her border. It's just simple as that. They may annex some parts of Eastern Ukraine where Ukrainians of Russian origin are the majority, but they wouldn't go as far as invading all of Ukraine or take cities like Lviv, for example.

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## Khanate

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497261195178364931


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497334529056518148



pkuser2k12 said:


> View attachment 819080
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 819081




Awful racism. 

What American media does at dawn, European media does at dusk.

This attitude is present elsewhere


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497677595701387264

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## Foinikas

pkuser2k12 said:


> View attachment 819080
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 819081


So only Arabs deserve cruise missiles? 

The rest only cheap weapons? What are we? Subhumans? 

But seriously...it's stupid. If Corsica decided to become independent,what would they have done?


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## QWECXZ

Hydration said:


> I wouldve guessed that the russians would have a very high civllian cassulty rate but i was suprised that they actually care tgey took the power station of kiev yet they didnt cut the power and have taken measure to limit cassulties on civillians while some "neo-nazis" as they call them just outright abolish this term with other natiolist and mistake civillian cars for russian spies by weapons given to them by the goverment, some ukranians who surrendred were treated greatly and one reasoned their surrendering with "Its better to have peace with our brethern than to fight them for an enemy who only made excuses"


Indeed. The fact that we do not see photos of Russian "genocide" on the front covers of the Western media now proves that the Russian army has been very cautious about civilian casualties, completely contrary to what Western assholes did to the Iraqi civilians.

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## Tamerlane

Wergeland said:


> Is defence.pk a american run website?
> Or is it HQ in Pakistan?



I believe that it's a Pakistani owned and operated forum, but they allow a lot of differing opinions. You would think a Pakistani website won't have Indians, but this place is overflowing with them, which is the main reason I have mostly stayed away. But I guess it is good to be able to debate with people with all kinds of opinions. 

I've seen many other forums where you can only post if you follow the official line of the owners. Anyone with a differing opinion is not allowed.

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## jamal18

Dalit said:


> Should we trust what the USA says?


The entire conflict is about the untrustworthiness of the US and it's constant betrayal of the Russians.

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## Oldman1

pkuser2k12 said:


> did UN mandate sanctioned this
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497172818899144706



How is it a warcrime? You see a large enemy force you bomb it. Unless there was a ceasefire or the war ended, you attack them. Whether they are advancing or retreating.


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## Wergeland

pkuser2k12 said:


> View attachment 819080
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 819081



I wanted to call him a white terrorist but OK not fair because not every white guy is a asshole like him.


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## pkuser2k12

Oldman1 said:


> How is it a warcrime? You see a large enemy force you bomb it. Unless there was a ceasefire or the war ended, you attack them. Whether they are advancing or retreating.

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## Foinikas

Oldman1 said:


> How is it a warcrime? You see a large enemy force you bomb it. Unless there was a ceasefire or the war ended, you attack them. Whether they are advancing or retreating.


It wasn't necessary.


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## The Eagle

Wergeland said:


> Is defence.pk a american run website?
> Or is it HQ in Pakistan?



Any particular reason? It is indeed, Pakistan Defence Forum.

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## Oldman1

QWECXZ said:


> That's your claim, not what Russian authorities have claimed, but even if so and even if we assume you're right, full invasion of Ukraine and wiping it off the map is not on the agenda for this war. It may be in future, but right now Russia is focusing on a national security matter rather than just expansionist ambitions. Russia doesn't want NATO right there at her border. It's just simple as that. They may annex some parts of Eastern Ukraine where Ukrainians of Russian origin are the majority, but they wouldn't go as far as invading all of Ukraine or take cities like Lviv, for example.



Oh yeah? You believe Putin then when he says Ukraine is controlled by Nazis and Ukraine shouldn't exist.


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## RescueRanger

Oldman1 said:


> How is it a warcrime? You see a large enemy force you bomb it. Unless there was a ceasefire or the war ended, you attack them. Whether they are advancing or retreating.


*Spoken like someone with no knowledge of the subject:*

“The law of armed conflicts clearly forbids the killing or wounding of an enemy who … is … _hors de combat_.” - examples of war crimes that could be considered as grave breaches of the 1949 Geneva Conventions include: “Denial of quarter (i.e., killing or wounding an enemy unable to fight due to sickness or wounds or one who is making a genuine offer of surrender).”



The Eagle said:


> Any particular reason? It is indeed, Pakistan Defence Forum.


I love these questions.

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## gambit

Back in my days, the Cold War and Desert Storm, when I was active duty. It took time to create any kind of psyops such as pamphlets or videos. We are talking about video *TAPES* and mechanical printers. Yes, we were that primitive. 

But not so today. So here is my take on these twitter feeds...

If a video is up close, of either persons or any hardware, put that video into the 'suspect' directory. When you are filming up close, the camera always crop out information and many of that crop are deliberate. A video/photo is more easily *POSED* if it is an up close and cropped shot. The content is much more easily controlled and edited by you.

On the other hand, look at the video of a tank veered off to run over a car. Wide view video/photo are more difficult to control as to its contents. Much more variables to consider such as clouds, trees, people, etc. Motion is the worst variable to try to control. It is better to take a wide view and zoom in at your convenience, rather than wait for someone else to do it because you do not know what was eliminated. Wide view videos/photos may lack in details and the video maybe shaky/jerky but at least it hint at some measure of authenticity.

It is not guaranteed but at least some reasonable guidance in this age of quickly created propaganda.

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## LeGenD

Foinikas said:


> The question is:
> 
> Is the NATO the policeman of the world?
> 
> Yes I know,it's all about power and interests. But I can't listen to hypocritical statements from NATO leaders when they've gone on a tour bombing the world and meddling in other people's affairs.
> 
> And if Americans decide that Kosovo deserves independence,they can't say Crimea or Donbass can't be independent.
> 
> You know what I mean. Yes Saddam had to be stopped the first time. But all the countries who have meddled in the affairs of so many countries and literally changed them,can't complain about Putin and Russia.



It should NOT be in my view.

However, different countries (or political leaders of different countries) have sought assistance from NATO when up against overwhelming odds from time to time. Let us look at both sides of the coin in each case. 

Ukraine have its internal problems but Russia have taken advantage of them lately. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy sought assistance from NATO to help him counter Russia - what else he could do? Russian sources and apologetics declared Zelenskyy a Nazi and a CIA plant which is disingenuous.



https://www.rt.com/russia/544248-zelensky-nazi-influence-putin/











Zelensky to Putin: I'm no Nazi — I'm Jewish


The main argument presented by Vladimir Putin for his all-out war on Ukraine certainly sounded strange to Western ears, and especially to Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky. In his address to bot…




clarion.causeaction.com





Zelenskyy felt the need to come clean on that not long ago.

Zelenskyy might not be very popular but he came to power through elections: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48007487

- and nothing suggests that much of Ukraine is totally fine with Russia invading the country and toppling Zelenskyy. Ukrainians in many parts of the country have volunteered to resist Russian forces instead. Whether they stand a chance or not, remains to be seen.

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## Oldman1

Foinikas said:


> It wasn't necessary.



Thats your view.


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## QWECXZ

Oldman1 said:


> Oh yeah? You believe Putin then when he says Ukraine is controlled by Nazis and Ukraine shouldn't exist.


When did he say that Ukraine shouldn't exist?


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## Wergeland

The Eagle said:


> Any particular reason? It is indeed, Pakistan Defence Forum.



No bro just being curious.


----------



## The Eagle

Oldman1 said:


> How is it a warcrime? You see a large enemy force you bomb it. Unless there was a ceasefire or the war ended, you attack them. Whether they are advancing or retreating.



I wanted to ask that why Russian can't have that "Bomb Enemy" badge?


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## Amaa'n

Some update on Air Traffic
1) italian MPA doing some crazy rounds over its territorial waters









2)USAF K35R strategic lifter and Air refueler





3) British C17 on its way back home after short trip to Poland





4) Nato AEWC E3 sentry flying out to Turkey

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## PakAlp

QWECXZ said:


> They do not want to annex Kiev and administer it. They want to force Ukraine to accept neutrality and guarantee that it will never join NATO and they probably want to install a pro-Russian government as well. Russia does not need to invade Ukraine as there are many Russian people living in Ukraine that can achieve their goals for them, including Ukrainian politicians of Russian origin.











Socialist Party of Ukraine - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





A pro Russian government of Socialist Party of Ukraine will be the best answer but how much support do they have? They have support in the East and South of Ukraine but North and West is pro Nato. I can only see Russia making Ukraine militarly weak and then forming a separatists buffer state with the Socialist party of Ukraine in power. The rest of Ukraine needs to be neutral otherwise Russian plan will be 50% success. The current leader in charge wants to risk it all for Nato. 

The issue is the west is very attractive, their liberal/secular culture is winning hearts and minds, their economy success and living style is wanted by all, the opposing powers including the Muslim states are struggling to find ways to counter this.


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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497697681862500352

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## The Eagle

Wergeland said:


> No bro just being curious.



Russia Ukraine are at war. Our focus should be for the end of it. 

Just on lighter note brother.

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## Oldman1

RescueRanger said:


> *Spoken like someone with no knowledge of the subject:*
> 
> “The law of armed conflicts clearly forbids the killing or wounding of an enemy who … is … _hors de combat_.” - examples of war crimes that could be considered as grave breaches of the 1949 Geneva Conventions include: “Denial of quarter (i.e., killing or wounding an enemy unable to fight due to sickness or wounds or one who is making a genuine offer of surrender).”
> 
> 
> I love these questions.


So you're telling me that it was a large army of wounded soldiers unable to fight? Was this army retreating or surrendering? Were they heading to Saudi Arabia to surrender?


----------



## jamal18

Mujahid Memon said:


> Yes the naked aggression began in 2014 when Russia attacked Crimea. So what?





CAPRICORN-88 said:


>


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## RescueRanger

More than 150,000 Ukrainian's have now fled their country to Poland and Bulgaria. The entry queue is so large it is expected that it will take three days to process all the arrivals. Source: BBC World Service Radio.


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## The Eagle

RescueRanger said:


> I love these questions.



Surprised me as well as if our dear member is being misled due to posting of random members. 😂

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## RescueRanger

Oldman1 said:


> So you're telling me that it was a large army of wounded soldiers unable to fight? Was this army retreating or surrendering? Were they heading to Saudi Arabia to surrender?


It doesn't matter what you think, the law is very clear on this, please feel free to google it.


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## QWECXZ

PakAlp said:


> Socialist Party of Ukraine - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A pro Russian government of Socialist Party of Ukraine will be the best answer but how much support do they have? They have support in the East and South of Ukraine but North and West is pro Nato. I can only see Russia making Ukraine militarly weak and then forming a separatists buffer state with the Socialist party of Ukraine in power. The rest of Ukraine needs to be neutral otherwise Russian plan will be 50% success. The current leader in charge wants to risk it all for Nato.
> 
> The issue is the west is very attractive, their liberal/secular culture is winning hearts and minds, their economy success and living style is wanted by all, the opposing powers including the Muslim states are struggling to find ways to counter this.


Who cares how much support such a government would have? It's not like Eastern Europe is run democratically. This whole mess started with a series of color revolutions and Western-backed coup to begin with.

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## RescueRanger

The Eagle said:


> Surprised me as well as if our dear member is being misled due to posting of random members. 😂



I think people look at all the fancy flags and panic


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## Oldman1

The Eagle said:


> I wanted to ask that why Russian can't have that "Bomb Enemy" badge?



You see them bombing Ukrainian forces on the road. Looks like they don't need a bomb enemy badge.


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## jamal18

LeGenD said:


> This is disingenuous.
> 
> 1. Iraq invaded and annexed Kuwait in 1990. US-led forces protected KSA and liberated Kuwait in 1991 with UN mandate.
> 
> 2. Yugoslavian Civil War and its implications.
> 
> 3. Yugoslavian Civil War and its implications.
> 
> 4. Home to Al-Qaeda Network which was responsible for numerous terrorists attacks around the world including 9/11. US-led forces dismantled Al-Qaeda Network in the region with UN mandate.
> 
> 5. Controversial development but the oppressive Saddam regime is gone for good?
> 
> 6. Qaddafi regime was about to commit genocide in politically rebellious Benghazi.
> 
> 7. Assad regime is responsible for destruction of Syria.
> 
> Can WE stop making excuses for oppressive dictators?
> 
> I have marked that post as trolling and removed it. Let this be a reminder that sheer amount of likes on a post won't make it exempt to judgement.


You believe every single word the West tells you?

These actions have resulted in the death of millions, and the destruction of whole countries.

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## The Eagle

Oldman1 said:


> You see them bombing Ukrainian forces on the road. Looks like they don't need a bomb enemy badge.



I was asking a badge from you if you may please so the topic of thread may remain on Russia Ukraine conflict, like that for death highway. The thing is, you cannot differentiate unless you look at it from a neutral point of view. However, I don't blame people for their patriotism.

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## khansaheeb

GamoAccu said:


> Any update on this Indian volunteer fighter?
> 
> View attachment 819050


He was last seen looking for a place to open defecate.

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## Oldman1

RescueRanger said:


> It doesn't matter what you think, the law is very clear on this, please feel free to google it.



Yeah, wounded soldiers, surrendering. Nothing says about attacking retreating but able to fight forces.


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## The Eagle

RescueRanger said:


> I think people look at all the fancy flags and panic



Some are quite accurate too and inspiration comes since this place has a reputation. You know better.

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## Invicta

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> Some update on Air Traffic
> 1) italian MPA doing some crazy rounds over its territorial waters
> View attachment 819091
> View attachment 819092
> 
> 
> 2)USAF K35R strategic lifter and Air refueler
> View attachment 819093
> 
> 
> 3) British C17 on its way back home after short trip to Poland
> View attachment 819094
> 
> 
> 4) Nato AEWC E3 sentry flying out to Turkey
> 
> View attachment 819095


Just picked these two EF2000 returning from Poland.

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## jamal18

nufix said:


> Then why the US is not doing it? If it is so easy as you said, the US would have done it already.


Guys, we can knit pick, but here are the facts.

The US military is the most technologically advanced, best funded and powerful in the world.

The Russian economy is the size of South Korea.


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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497716217263579139


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## PakAlp

QWECXZ said:


> Who cares how much support such a government would have? It's not like Eastern Europe is run democratically. This whole mess started with a series of color revolutions and Western-backed coup to begin with.


In Afghanistan the USA bought Northern Alliance in power for 20 years but look at what happened when the occupying power Nato left, within days they were toppled and Ashraf Ghani and co were on planes to Europe. The Pro Russian parties need to have support which i believe they do not have and this is why a separatist state will be formed with Kiev as its capital. The rest of Ukraine needs to be neutral between Russia and Nato otherwise 2nd war will be around the corner.
In Iraq the majority Kurds and Iraqi shias were anti Saddam so they easily came to power.

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## FuturePAF

nangyale said:


> Put real sanctions on Russia and the west will be paying $150 to$200 per barrel of crude.
> As for gas Europe has no alternative to what Russia supplies.
> The West can play with sanctions for show for a couple of months anything more than that and you will see the European economies collapse as if 2007 was just child's play.


Well many Russian banks are about to be cut out of SWIFT, which will impact imports and exports.

Oil and gas prices are about to soar. (Would be a good time for Gulf countries to work with Iraq to lay a pipeline from them to the Turkish pipeline network connected to Europe.

But also, wheat prices (Russia supplies 18% of world supply) and all the downstream industries connected to it will be effected, especially in developing countries. Russia also exports a lot of fertilizer (20% of world supply), so agricultural production around the world could drop severely. Investments need to be done to raise agricultural productivity around the world to minimize the impact of the food cutoff, *or else we could see massive famine around the world.*


----------



## gambit

RescueRanger said:


> *Spoken like someone with no knowledge of the subject:*
> 
> “The law of armed conflicts clearly forbids the killing or wounding of an enemy who … is … _*hors de combat*_.” - examples of war crimes that could be considered as grave breaches of the 1949 Geneva Conventions include: “Denial of quarter (i.e., killing or wounding an enemy unable to fight due to sickness or wounds or one who is making a genuine offer of surrender).”


Sorry, but the @Oldman1 does have a point. Back in Desert Storm, we were briefed as to what qualified as a legal combatant, because, like it or not, Muslim militaries do not see any separation between 'soldier' and 'civilian'. That may offends some people but that is for a different debate. I still have my folder of that brief to this day.

A retreating enemy force *DOES NOT* qualify as "hors de combat" or out of action, especially if that enemy force is still fully armed, which the retreating Iraqi force were.

The tank busters had a question regarding the tank's legitimacy as a target. The tank is treated like a rifle. If the crew is out of the tank, that would be the equivalent of an infantryman dropping his rifle. That would be _hors de combat_. But if the tank is rolling, we do not know if the tank is still ammo-ed and/or under orders to conduct combat, hence, a rolling tank is a legitimate target, even if the tank is rolling in retreat. If any moving vehicle display the white flag, which is universally regarded as a signal to surrender, then it is up to the individual to make the call and situations like this are problematic. A tank is an offensive platform. A car is not, even though it can be turned into a weapon. A rolling tank displaying a white flag would not convince anyone that it is _hors de combat_, even if the crew is outside on the shell. So for any vehicle that was originally designed for combat, the best way for the crew to survive is to abandon it.

In order to fully qualify as _hors de combat_ you must be *VISIBLY* disarmed. In the case of an airborne combatant, like my F-16, dropping the landing gear is a *VISIBLE* sign of taking myself out of combat. The moment I raise gear, that is a sign that I put myself back into combatant status.

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## A1Kaid

NATO/West has been the main provocateur in this situation.

It makes sense for Russia to invade Ukraine, I totally understand why they would take action now. For the past 8 years Ukraine has been attacking and shelling the Donbass region and killing people in a majority ethnic Russian area; violating both of the Minsk agreements.

On top of that they have been inviting NATO to setup military bases and weapon systems to their land. How is this not provocative to Russia? Does Ukraine have the right to join NATO as a sovereign country? Yes. Does Russia have the right to defend its national security? Yes. Both conditions are true and legitimate.

Russia cannot allow a NATO bordering state that would put NATO just a few hundred miles away from Moscow. If during the cold war, Mexico allowed Russia to setup military bases and weapon systems, the US would attack Mexico before anything like that could happen.

NATO was designed to be anti-Soviet, problem is Soviet Union is gone but NATO still exists and it's sole purpose is to be anti-Russia.

The same mercenaries in NATO have destabilized and killed many in Libya, Iraq, Syria with un-welcomed military intervention and they want to lecture Russia when Russia takes action to protect it's legitimate national security? Unbelievable, this is a charade about human rights.

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## The Eagle

siegecrossbow said:


> Yikes. Ukraine has lost for sure.



Here is a tricky question for you since this time around, situation is bit complex than ever before....
India is supporting Russia and
Indian volunteer is fighting for Ukraine

Now, what will be the result in this situation?

I have an answer and I can explain that but will discuss later 😜

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## khansaheeb

Khanate said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497677595701387264
> *Civilized Only *
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497609007606996992


Polish are quite racist that's why they get a good beating in the UK every day.

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## QWECXZ

PakAlp said:


> In Afghanistan the USA bought Northern Alliance in power for 20 years but look at what happened when the occupying power Nato left, within days they were toppled and Ashraf Ghani and co were on planes to Europe. The Pro Russian parties need to have support which i believe they do not have and this is why a separatist state will be formed with Kiev as its capital. The rest of Ukraine needs to be neutral between Russia and Nato otherwise 2nd war will be around the corner.
> In Iraq the majority Kurds and Iraqi shias were anti Saddam so they easily came to power.


Yes but Ukraine is different from Afghanistan because the Russian culture and the Ukrainian culture are similar. The cultural difference between Afghans and the democratic culture that the US wanted to impose on them was huge, particularly religiously. Plus, Russians are right there next to Ukraine. They haven't come to Ukraine from ten thousands of miles away. They're just right there and they can continue to support their puppet government. Plus, they will take written guarantees from Ukraine about their neutrality and they can always find an excuse to interfere again.

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## siegecrossbow

The Eagle said:


> Here is a tricky question for you since this time around, situation is bit complex than ever before....
> India is supporting Russia and
> Indian volunteer is fighting for Ukraine
> 
> Now, what will be the result in this situation?
> 
> I have an answer and I can explain that but will discuss later 😜



That means Russia will win militarily but lose economically.

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## The Eagle

gambit said:


> Sorry, but the @Oldman1 does have a point. Back in Desert Storm, we were briefed as to what qualified as a legal combatant, because, like it or not, Muslim militaries do not see any separation between 'soldier' and 'civilian'. That may offends some people but that is for a different debate. I still have my folder of that brief to this day.
> 
> A retreating enemy force *DOES NOT* qualify as "hors de combat" or out of action, especially if that enemy force is still fully armed, which the retreating Iraqi force were.
> 
> The tank busters had a question regarding the tank's legitimacy as a target. The tank is treated like a rifle. If the crew is out of the tank, that would be the equivalent of an infantryman dropping his rifle. That would be _hors de combat_. But if the tank is rolling, we do not know if the tank is still ammo-ed and/or under orders to conduct combat, hence, a rolling tank is a legitimate target, even if the tank is rolling in retreat. If any moving vehicle display the white flag, which is universally regarded as a signal to surrender, then it is up to the individual to make the call and situations like this are problematic. A tank is an offensive platform. A car is not, even though it can be turned into a weapon. A rolling tank displaying a white flag would not convince anyone that it is _hors de combat_, even if the crew is outside on the shell. So for any vehicle that was originally designed for combat, the best way for the crew to survive is to abandon it.
> 
> In order to fully qualify as _hors de combat_ you must be *VISIBLY* disarmed. In the case of an airborne combatant, like my F-16, dropping the landing gear is a *VISIBLE* sign of taking myself out of combat. The moment I raise gear, that is a sign that I put myself back into combatant status.



Gambit my friend, what happened in Afghanistan killing children in drone strikes or unarmed civilian in field by Aussies does explain well of separation. But, but..... That's not the topic here.. time for us to pay attention to the subject.

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## maverick1977

Russian Banks will be taken off line from financial communication network under SWIFT from Monday. New sanctions just announced on CNN. 
This will hurt Russia as they wont be able to trade and transact with international banks.
Most likely they will move to Chinese netowkr, but not sure how big that network is ?


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## The Eagle

siegecrossbow said:


> That means Russia will win militarily but lose economically.


 Interesting but I think, Russia might loose everything given the Indian factor. This particular guy is from Tamil Nadu and Tamils don't like India. Therefore, Russian loss may be bigger since India supports them. Ukraine may gain something. 

Let's hope sanity prevail otherwise, both are caught in a tight position. Modi is everywhere.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Does Ukraine Use Turkish Drones? Does the Russia Ukraine Crisis Affect the Turkish Defense Industry?​A decent video presentation in Turkish with English subtitle:


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## Wergeland

RescueRanger said:


> I think people look at all the fancy flags and panic



No not at all.
Been following this forum for ages.
Dont wanna dwell any deeper into that coz its off topic. But lets just say sometime where something is stationed has some positives/negatives with it. What i mean is the server, which i believe is based is the United States.


----------



## RescueRanger

gambit said:


> Sorry, but the @Oldman1 does have a point. Back in Desert Storm, we were briefed as to what qualified as a legal combatant, because, like it or not, Muslim militaries do not see any separation between 'soldier' and 'civilian'. That may offends some people but that is for a different debate. I still have my folder of that brief to this day.
> 
> A retreating enemy force *DOES NOT* qualify as "hors de combat" or out of action, especially if that enemy force is still fully armed, which the retreating Iraqi force were.
> 
> The tank busters had a question regarding the tank's legitimacy as a target. The tank is treated like a rifle. If the crew is out of the tank, that would be the equivalent of an infantryman dropping his rifle. That would be _hors de combat_. But if the tank is rolling, we do not know if the tank is still ammo-ed and/or under orders to conduct combat, hence, a rolling tank is a legitimate target, even if the tank is rolling in retreat. If any moving vehicle display the white flag, which is universally regarded as a signal to surrender, then it is up to the individual to make the call and situations like this are problematic. A tank is an offensive platform. A car is not, even though it can be turned into a weapon. A rolling tank displaying a white flag would not convince anyone that it is _hors de combat_, even if the crew is outside on the shell. So for any vehicle that was originally designed for combat, the best way for the crew to survive is to abandon it.
> 
> In order to fully qualify as _hors de combat_ you must be *VISIBLY* disarmed. In the case of an airborne combatant, like my F-16, dropping the landing gear is a *VISIBLE* sign of taking myself out of combat. The moment I raise gear, that is a sign that I put myself back into combatant status.



"journalist Seymour Hersh, citing American witnesses, alleged that a platoon of U.S. Bradley Fighting Vehicles from the 1st Brigade, 24th Infantry Division opened fire on a large group of more than 350 disarmed Iraqi soldiers who had surrendered at a makeshift military checkpoint after fleeing the devastation on Highway 8 on February 27, apparently hitting some or all of them. The U.S. Military Intelligence personnel who were manning the checkpoint claimed they too were fired on from the same vehicles and barely fled by car during the incident."

Source: 




__





Overwhelming Force


ANNALS OF WAR about the Persian Gulf War, and reports by servicement of massacres which took place under the command of Gen. Barry McCaffrey...




www.newyorker.com

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## Ali_Baba

Invicta said:


> Just picked these two EF2000 returning from Poland.



Most likely went out to protect the latest C17 drop to Poland of weapons.

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## LeGenD

jamal18 said:


> You believe every single word the West tells you?
> 
> These actions have resulted in the death of millions, and the destruction of whole countries.



Ad hominem noticed.

No, I do my homework (check information on hand) and my judgement calls are in accordance. These conflicts materialized due to irrational (and dictatorial) politics of the leader(s) of the mentioned countries which led to regional conflicts and drew NATO into them (cascading effects). The death and destruction that followed in each case is most unfortunate and deplorable. This was already happening in some regions before NATO showed up.

I called out on cheap point-scoring as a means of rationalizing Russian aggression in Ukraine.

How can WE draw the line between right and wrong with selective rationalization of everything questionable out there?


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

_At the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, the majority of Crimean voted in a referendum to join Ukraine. 

After a democratically elected President of Ukraine was ousted in 2014, the mainly Russian speaking population of Crimea changed their mind and voted again in another referendum to join Russia. 
So what is wrong with that? 
What annexation?

Historically Crimea was never part of Ukraine. So Crimea has a choice. 

That is real democracy. 

Folks in here like to talk a lot about freedom and democracy without the understanding of what real democracy is all about. 

Watch the video to the end before jumping to conclusion. 

The argument is coherent and logical. We don't need to agree or disagree. 

We only need to use the right side of our brain. _

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## RescueRanger

Oldman1 said:


> Very bad comparison, if we wanted to kill the Afghan children, they would all be dead, not 20 years later and people scrambling for their lives even cling on to C-17s on the outside asking Afghan children murderers to take them to go back to the states.


*Oh please, drop the sanctimonious act! It doesn't carry very far!*

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## Clutch

lastofthepatriots said:


> There are only 300 or so ‘nazis’ in Azov out of thousands. They behave like gangsters and blackmail politicians for money. They are also funded by externals powers, but it’s not fair to say all of Azov are ‘Nazis’.



Most of the attacks on Muslims in the West and also many in Germany were done by people who visited or have allegiance with the Ukrainian Azov and also covert Ukranian Zelensky government support. It's been a breeding ground for resurgence of White Nationalism and Nazism.

Even the New Zealand mosque attacker had Ukrainian links.

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## RescueRanger

Wergeland said:


> No not at all.
> Been following this forum for ages.
> Dont wanna dwell any deeper into that coz its off topic. But lets just say sometime where something is stationed has some positives/negatives with it. What i mean is the server, which i believe is based is the United States.


Fair enough.


----------



## jamal18

khansaheeb said:


> Polish are quite racist that's why they a good beating in the UK every day.


I have heard that. However I have worked with a lot of them, and in my personal interaction found them to be friendly and polite.


----------



## gambit

The Eagle said:


> Gambit my friend, what happened in Afghanistan killing children in drone strikes or unarmed civilian in field by Aussies does explain well of separation. But, but..... That's not the topic here.. time for us to pay attention to the subject.


if you want to get technical and legal, a 'civilian' can still be a legal combatant. The correct word is 'non-combatant'. But we can use 'civilian' to be 'non-combatant' for ease of discussion. I know that people love to levy the war crime charge at US but am going to indulge the discussion.

The deaths of civilians in an attack can be construed as a war crime *IF* the intention was to kill civilians. Yes, I know people are going to gleefully jump in with the US bombing in WW II as the typical 'Gotcha' moment.  But the current Geneva Convention as enforcible laws were created post WW II. So let us remain on topic.

If civilian deaths were accidental or 'collateral damages', then even though the event itself can be construed as a war crime, the attacker(s) cannot be charged with a war crime. Flawed intelligence is on the receiving side, not from the source. So when/if the attackers were given flawed intelligence when the intel were deliberately deceitful, the attacker(s) cannot be charged with a war crime.


----------



## PakAlp

QWECXZ said:


> Yes but Ukraine is different from Afghanistan because the Russian culture and the Ukrainian culture are similar. The cultural difference between Afghans and the democratic culture that the US wanted to impose on them was huge, particularly religiously. Plus, Russians are right there next to Ukraine. They haven't come to Ukraine from ten thousands of miles away. They're just right there and they can continue to support their puppet government. Plus, they will take written guarantees from Ukraine about their neutrality and they can always find an excuse to interfere again.


True but Iraq was also the same. Pro Saddam parties are in the dustbin and Kurds/Shias are the ruling power. In Afghanistan the NA was a small and weak and Usa only option was to bring them to power but they failed miserably. For 20 years they trained Afghan soldiers in 300,000+ numbers but they disappeared as soon as Nato left. In Iraq the USA installed government/army is still in power. 

Back to Ukraine, the new government must have grassroot level support which they only have in the East and South (unless I am incorrect). Russia certainly must have done their homework otherwise they will be in big trouble.


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## The Eagle

Oldman1 said:


> Very bad comparison, if we wanted to kill the Afghan children, they would all be dead, not 20 years later and people scrambling for their lives even cling on to C-17s on the outside asking Afghan children murderers to take them to go back to the states.



If you keep insisting on something like that, I am sorry but I have lost my interest even to see such comments worthy to react. You have no idea as what's being said. You are only confronting merely for the sake of it. You are totally unaware about what I said earlier or you are deliberately avoiding but replying for the sake of it. I am not very fond of such behavior especially if one becomes isolated and even consider the point being raised.

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## Dariush the Great

gambit said:


> if you want to get technical and legal, a 'civilian' can still be a legal combatant. The correct word is 'non-combatant'. But we can use 'civilian' to be 'non-combatant' for ease of discussion. I know that people love to levy the war crime charge at US but am going to indulge the discussion.
> 
> The deaths of civilians in an attack can be construed as a war crime *IF* the intention was to kill civilians. Yes, I know people are going to gleefully jump in with the US bombing in WW II as the typical 'Gotcha' moment.  But the current Geneva Convention as enforcible laws were created post WW II. So let us remain on topic.
> 
> If civilian deaths were accidental or 'collateral damages', then even though the event itself can be construed as a war crime, the attacker(s) cannot be charged with a war crime. Flawed intelligence is on the receiving side, not from the source. So when/if the attackers were given flawed intelligence when the intel were deliberately deceitful, the attacker(s) cannot be charged with a war crime.


Geez, a lot of ''legal'' magic words to justify droning of innocent children.

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## RescueRanger

The Eagle said:


> If you keep insisting on something like that, I am sorry but I have lost my interest even to see such comments worthy to react. You have no idea as what's being said. You are only confronting merely for the sake of it. You are totally unaware about what I said earlier or you are deliberately avoiding but replying for the sake of it. I am not very fond of such behavior especially if one becomes isolated and even consider the point being raised.


I must admit, I am not an Afghan or an Afghan sympathizer, but that post really angered me, highly insensitive, considering they created the whole mess in the first place and had a DUTY of care to evacuate their contractors who had been promised visa's and their dependents who had been offered the same.

*I just cannot stomach their supercilious vanity anymore. *

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## The Eagle

gambit said:


> if you want to get technical and legal, a 'civilian' can still be a legal combatant. The correct word is 'non-combatant'. But we can use 'civilian' to be 'non-combatant' for ease of discussion. I know that people love to levy the war crime charge at US but am going to indulge the discussion.
> 
> The deaths of civilians in an attack can be construed as a war crime *IF* the intention was to kill civilians. Yes, I know people are going to gleefully jump in with the US bombing in WW II as the typical 'Gotcha' moment.  But the current Geneva Convention as enforcible laws were created post WW II. So let us remain on topic.
> 
> If civilian deaths were accidental or 'collateral damages', then even though the event itself can be construed as a war crime, the attacker(s) cannot be charged with a war crime. Flawed intelligence is on the receiving side, not from the source. So when/if the attackers were given flawed intelligence when the intel were deliberately deceitful, the attacker(s) cannot be charged with a war crime.



A lot of Technical and legal comes if I am the offending side. If it's someone else at receiving end, that's called war crime. I referred the very recent incident from Afghanistan and you know it well. However, I don't blame since it was an American drone. Collateral is a definition for US in this regard. Then on other hand, Russians may be given the advantage of the same as well. 

Please, let's get back to the topic in hand.

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## gambit

RescueRanger said:


> "journalist Seymour Hersh, citing American witnesses, alleged that a platoon of U.S. Bradley Fighting Vehicles from the 1st Brigade, 24th Infantry Division opened fire on a large group of more than 350 disarmed Iraqi soldiers who had surrendered at a makeshift military checkpoint after fleeing the devastation on Highway 8 on February 27, apparently hitting some or all of them. The U.S. Military Intelligence personnel who were manning the checkpoint claimed they too were fired on from the same vehicles and barely fled by car during the incident."
> 
> Source:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overwhelming Force
> 
> 
> ANNALS OF WAR about the Persian Gulf War, and reports by servicement of massacres which took place under the command of Gen. Barry McCaffrey...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newyorker.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 819099


If it was true that the Iraqi soldiers were unarmed, either by self or from someone else, then *KNOWINGLY* killing them after it was ascertained that the Iraqis were unarmed, qualified as a war crime.

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## khail007

SIPRA said:


> No. The poet was elder brother of my father.



Was? My heartiest condolonces.

Indeed he got a great talent, any poetry book from him?

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## RescueRanger

gambit said:


> If it was true that the Iraqi soldiers were unarmed, either by self or from someone else, then *KNOWINGLY* killing them after it was ascertained that the Iraqis were unarmed, qualified as a war crime.


It was published in the New Yorker. Not Dawn.com or India Today... The New Yorker! 

What more proof do you need, I have linked the archived document in my previous post. 

Do read it!


----------



## gambit

Dariush the Great said:


> Geez, a lot of ''legal'' magic words to justify droning of innocent children.


You really do not want to go there where some people used religious magic words to justify children suicide bombers.

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## SIPRA

khail007 said:


> Was? My heartiest condolonces.
> 
> Indeed he got a great talent, any poetry book from him?



Yes. "Lafz Khurderay".

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## beast89

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497674962236227584
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497675902326607877


chechen general dead or is that Ukrainian disinfo?


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## khansaheeb

gambit said:


> Sorry, but the @Oldman1 does have a point. Back in Desert Storm, we were briefed as to what qualified as a legal combatant, because, like it or not, Muslim militaries do not see any separation between 'soldier' and 'civilian'. That may offends some people but that is for a different debate. I still have my folder of that brief to this day.
> 
> A retreating enemy force *DOES NOT* qualify as "hors de combat" or out of action, especially if that enemy force is still fully armed, which the retreating Iraqi force were.
> 
> The tank busters had a question regarding the tank's legitimacy as a target. The tank is treated like a rifle. If the crew is out of the tank, that would be the equivalent of an infantryman dropping his rifle. That would be _hors de combat_. But if the tank is rolling, we do not know if the tank is still ammo-ed and/or under orders to conduct combat, hence, a rolling tank is a legitimate target, even if the tank is rolling in retreat. If any moving vehicle display the white flag, which is universally regarded as a signal to surrender, then it is up to the individual to make the call and situations like this are problematic. A tank is an offensive platform. A car is not, even though it can be turned into a weapon. A rolling tank displaying a white flag would not convince anyone that it is _hors de combat_, even if the crew is outside on the shell. So for any vehicle that was originally designed for combat, the best way for the crew to survive is to abandon it.
> 
> In order to fully qualify as _hors de combat_ you must be *VISIBLY* disarmed. In the case of an airborne combatant, like my F-16, dropping the landing gear is a *VISIBLE* sign of taking myself out of combat. The moment I raise gear, that is a sign that I put myself back into combatant status.


Maybe you would like to submit this folder for a war crime investigation?-" I still have my folder of that brief to this day._"_

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## RescueRanger

beast89 said:


> chechen general dead or is that Ukrainian disinfo?


Disinformation. Please don't believe anything posted on Instagram or Twitter.

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## khansaheeb

jamal18 said:


> I have heard that. However I have worked with a lot of them, and in my personal interaction found them to be friendly and polite.


Maybe those are ones who have had a good beating and that's why they are nice and friendly.

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## Mujahid Memon

The Eagle said:


> Here is a tricky question for you since this time around, situation is bit complex than ever before....
> India is supporting Russia and
> Indian volunteer is fighting for Ukraine
> 
> Now, what will be the result in this situation?
> 
> I have an answer and I can explain that but will discuss later 😜


You mean this?

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## RescueRanger

khansaheeb said:


> Maybe you would like to submit this folder for a war crime investigation?-" I still have my folder of that brief to this day._"_



I love how Oldman and Gabit ignored this article:

"_journalist Seymour Hersh, citing American witnesses_, *alleged that a platoon of U.S. Bradley Fighting Vehicles from the 1st Brigade, 24th Infantry Division opened fire on a large group of more than 350 disarmed Iraqi soldiers who had surrendered at a makeshift military checkpoint after fleeing the devastation on Highway 8 on February 27, apparently hitting some or all of them. The U.S. Military Intelligence personnel who were manning the checkpoint claimed they too were fired on from the same vehicles and barely fled by car during the incident."*

Source:
Overwhelming Force​ANNALS OF WAR about the Persian Gulf War, and reports by servicement of massacres which took place under the command of Gen. Barry McCaffrey...




www.newyorker.com

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## gambit

khansaheeb said:


> Maybe you would like to submit this folder for a war crime investigation?-" I still have my folder of that brief to this day._"_


Why should I? The US military have the copies. But please continue. I know you are less interested in the actual subject as a learning event and more about trying to put US in a negative light.



RescueRanger said:


> I love how Oldman and Gabit ignored this article:
> 
> "_journalist Seymour Hersh, citing American witnesses_, *alleged that a platoon of U.S. Bradley Fighting Vehicles from the 1st Brigade, 24th Infantry Division opened fire on a large group of more than 350 disarmed Iraqi soldiers who had surrendered at a makeshift military checkpoint after fleeing the devastation on Highway 8 on February 27, apparently hitting some or all of them. The U.S. Military Intelligence personnel who were manning the checkpoint claimed they too were fired on from the same vehicles and barely fled by car during the incident."*
> 
> Source:
> Overwhelming Force​ANNALS OF WAR about the Persian Gulf War, and reports by servicement of massacres which took place under the command of Gen. Barry McCaffrey...
> 
> 
> 
> www.newyorker.com
> 
> View attachment 819101


You should know that an allegation does not qualify as evidence, let alone proof. it does not matter if the source is a famous US magazine or from the Taliban.


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## Dariush the Great

gambit said:


> You really do not want to go there where some people used religious magic words to justify children suicide bombers.


Or we can drop some nuclear weapons on innocent civilians in order to achieve military goals?
Not once, but twice.
Or use depleted Uranium in SE Asian/ME countries?
Or invading countries on fake charges? Or the thousands of coupdetat's and sanctions aggression act?
A lot of magical words were used to justify the above ^^

Go sit in your place, you can not claim the moral high ground.

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## khansaheeb

gambit said:


> Why should I? The US military have the copies. But please continue. I know you are less interested in the actual subject as a learning event and more about trying to put US in a negative light.


Just doing what is expected of any decent citizen , nothing personal. I would do the same thing if I saw a crime being committed in the street. If you carry any burdens of conscience release them before you reach the grave.

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## QWECXZ

PakAlp said:


> True but Iraq was also the same. Pro Saddam parties are in the dustbin and Kurds/Shias are the ruling power. In Afghanistan the NA was a small and weak and Usa only option was to bring them to power but they failed miserably. For 20 years they trained Afghan soldiers in 300,000+ numbers but they disappeared as soon as Nato left. In Iraq the USA installed government/army is still in power.
> 
> Back to Ukraine, the new government must have grassroot level support which they only have in the East and South (unless I am incorrect). Russia certainly must have done their homework otherwise they will be in big trouble.


Yes but the point is that Russia will never leave Ukraine like the US did because Russia is located right there and not tens of thousands of miles away in a different continent. Plus, Russia will not fully invade Ukraine to bleed there, like the US did. If Russia can topple the anti-Russian government and force Ukraine to accept neutrality, it can take its soldiers back home immediately and leave the rest to pro-Russia forces in Ukraine, which have been fighting in Ukraine for 8 years and never stopped.

Russia and the US have different reasons and objectives for their military invasions of Ukraine and Afghanistan. The US objective was to have a foothold in a central Asian country that bordered two of its adversaries in the region (Iran and China) as well as it bordered Russia's backyard while it intended to steal Afghan's wealth and mineral resources, which surpasses trillions of dollars. As I have mentioned before, the problem is that the US got trapped in a landlocked country where all of the neighbors of Afghanistan were against the US, including Pakistan which later joined the Chinese camp and lost interest in cooperating with the US. Russia does not care about Ukraine's resources as much as it cares about preventing the predictable consequences of Ukraine becoming a NATO member and it has access to Ukraine from Belarus and its territory directly. It seems to be a different situation to me.

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## gambit

Dariush the Great said:


> Or we can drop some nuclear weapons on innocent civilians in order to achieve military goals?
> Not once, but twice.
> Or use depleted Uranium in SE Asian/ME countries?
> Or invading countries on fake charges? Or the thousands of coupdet's and sanctions aggression act?
> A lot of magical words were used to justify the above ^^
> 
> Go sit in your place, *you can not claim the moral high ground.*


Can you? When I got orders to deploy to Desert Storm, we already had briefings on how Iraqi soldiers *WOULD* disguise themselves as civilians. Go play that game elsewhere.

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## YBB010

Interesting that that baby in the picture wasn't taken to USA but left in Kabul according to Chinese media. Parents had tried to find him months.


https://m.weibo.cn/5461853682/4728756227015942


Thanks admin for deleting that post。


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## RescueRanger

Anyway lets get back on topic please as we will all be chasing tails, the following is a tweet from an Intelligence expert... If you are confused don't worry so am I, that clearly looks like a cheap flip mobile phone. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497464226193022977





*This is why I will reiterate, don't believe anything you read on twitter right now! It's all bullshit!*

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## gambit

khansaheeb said:


> Just doing what is expected of any decent citizen , nothing personal. I would do the same thing if I saw a crime being committed in the street. If you carry any burdens of conscience release them before you reach the grave.


So now I am an indecent human being. Spare me your pretentiousness. It got tiresome *DECADES* ago, pal.

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## JustAnotherPerson

Without negotiations Ukraine is going to be cut in half. The only territory left will be a land locked region in the west.

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## Abid123

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497716762208522241

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## khansaheeb

Dariush the Great said:


> Or we can drop some nuclear weapons on innocent civilians in order to achieve military goals?
> Not once, but twice.
> Or use depleted Uranium in SE Asian/ME countries?
> Or invading countries on fake charges? Or the thousands of coupdetat's and sanctions aggression act?
> A lot of magical words were used to justify the above ^^
> 
> Go sit in your place, you can not claim the moral high ground.


Don't forget burning of children with napalm, birth defects due to agent orange, maiming of children with cluster bombs etc

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## RescueRanger

Here is another misinformation tweet:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497305163694022658
*No this is not some SPETZNAS laser designator, its a regular surveyor sticker *

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## A1Kaid

maverick1977 said:


> Russian Banks will be taken off line from financial communication network under SWIFT from Monday. New sanctions just announced on CNN.
> This will hurt Russia as they wont be able to trade and transact with international banks.
> Most likely they will move to Chinese netowkr, but not sure how big that network is ?


The Chinese SWIFT is only going to get bigger: https://www.deccanherald.com/opinio...scow-alternative-payments-system-1084943.html



RescueRanger said:


> Here is another misinformation tweet:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497305163694022658
> *No this is not some SPETZNAS laser designator, its a regular surveyor sticker *
> View attachment 819105





https://www.nivoline.com/uk/



Exactly and they claim Russians are spreading misinfo.

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## Brainsucker

Ali_Baba said:


> USA / NATO is helping Ukraine with intelligence information - they have been very clear, open and transparent from the outset on this - in addition to actively supply MANPADS, Anti-Tanks and other weapons.
> 
> Will Russia take action against these NATO aerial assets if it believes they are directing Ukranian forces?
> 
> Put simply - it cannot afford to. If they do and take down just a single UAV or Intelligence gathering platform - NATO aerial assets will be free to take a shoot first against any russian aircraft that then come near these assets again - it will be a "shoot now and ask questions later" approach to Russian aerial assets that come anywhere near NATO assets.



And it will directly goes into nuclear war.

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## jamal18

William Burns, the US ambassador to Russia reported in 2008 a conversation with the Russian leadership.

' Ukrainian membership of Nato would lead to a civil war in the Ukraine, forcing Russia to intervene.'





 39.41mins

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## khansaheeb

Seems like US is going to use the anti-USSR Afghan model against the Russians, let's see how well both sides learnt from that war and what improvements they have made in their counter strategies.









Controversial CIA-sponsored ‘stay behinds’ are sent to Ukraine, but what's their mission?


With the revelation that the CIA is training covert “stay behinds” in Ukraine, it raises the question of who are these people and what is America’s past with stay-behind troops?




www.audacy.com

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## Taimoor Khan

RescueRanger said:


> Russians have lost the PR war, they lost the PR war the moment they tried to build a narrative to invade Ukraine.



Which world you living in? 

People world over arnt stupid and understand Russian reasons. This is not the era where CNN, FOX, BBC will run their 24*7 "war coverage" with propaganda. Social media, plus host states establishment own record in fighting unjust and inhumane wars has wiped out these media houses credibility.

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## LeGenD

S.Y.A said:


> we can have good links with russia, but this invasion is pure aggression. and violation of a sovereign nation. the chinese are understandably pro-russia, but the pakistani fanboys do so because of china, or because they have forgotten that russia has murdered and killed many in the past (they are most probably imran hossein followers, who probably thinks that putin is imam mehdi).



You nailed it. I was hooked to Sheikh Imran Hosein at some point but I gradually realized that this man has lost his way.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Khanate said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497261195178364931
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497334529056518148
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Awful racism.
> 
> What American media does at dawn, European media does at dusk.
> 
> This attitude is present elsewhere
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497677595701387264




Iraqi people are illegal but refugee from Ukraine are legal quite a double standard which runs

Notice even if there is war, a Iraqi man/women is not worthy to enter safe ground

I find it strange when there was war in Syria it was all Hush hush but if it is war in Ukraine , then it is on social media


Media was not allowed , full coverage
Ground coverage was not allowed or discouraged
Media outlets like CNN or BBC barely covered the stories
Mostly articles were showed in some internal page tied to middle east
But Ukraine

There is social media campaign
Tiktok campaign
Full coverage
Now seeing constant images of women hugging their men good bye

The world is full of double standards, even the imagry of war is so politicized

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## KAL-EL

Brainsucker said:


> And it will directly goes into nuclear war.



And that will go directly into suicide.

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## Khanate

A1Kaid said:


> The Chinese SWIFT is only going to get bigger: https://www.deccanherald.com/opinio...scow-alternative-payments-system-1084943.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.nivoline.com/uk/
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly and they claim Russians are spreading misinfo.




Dedollarisation, basically.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497714464413700097

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## RescueRanger

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Iraqi people are illegal but refugee from Ukraine are legal quite a double standard which runs
> 
> I find it strange when there was war in Syria it was all Hush hush but if it is war in Ukraine , then it is on social media


Please forgive the crass example but there was a joke my driver used to say which suits this predicament we find ourselves in:

Angrez khaney Cake/Pastry - pad marney te kushbo ashney.

Asi khaney amlok - pad marney te badboo ashney.

Again I’m sorry for the crass example but akalmand kay lia ishara kafi hain. 😊

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## Taimoor Khan

zartosht said:


> just imagine the sense of entitlement of westerners...
> 
> they are so high on themselves that its laughable..
> 
> "sieze" assets? you mean "steal Russian national wealth"
> 
> Good luck with that. 600 billion dollars of theft should see a nuclear response




I am just horrified with the thoughts of that. 

Imagine a thug who is sitting on biggest stockpile of nukes known to mankind and some clean shaved, "think tanks" graduates, wearing Armani suites, conspiring to steal his money!

These idiots needs to come to their senses pretty soon.

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497712081759522820

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## khansaheeb

KAL-EL said:


> And that will go directly into suicide.


So , while US,UK, France and Russia hit each other with Nukes what would India, China and Pakistan do with theirs, I wonder?


----------



## Khanate

China’s SWIFT alternative may undercut US sanctions​China’s Cross-Border International Payments System could give Russia a lifeline and accelerate de-dollarization

*De-dollarization of trade is under debate in Western Europe*. Germany’s Manager Magazine wrote on February 14, “Exclusion from the international payment system SWIFT is considered the sharpest sword that the West could wield as an economic sanction against Russia.

"However, it is a double-edged sword: the economic consequences would not only be serious in Russia, but also in Western Europe. In addition, the decoupling of Russia and China from the US dollar would be accelerated. Both countries are already working on competing payment systems."

Russia also has developed an interbank messaging system, which now covers about 20% of domestic financial payments.

China’s yuan has advantages and disadvantages as a dollar substitute.

*China’s consumer inflation rate stands around 1% year-on-year vs. 7.5% in the US*, and the yuan to some extent has acted as a hedge against dollar inflation.

--------------------

Pakistan's inflation could be 5-6% if yuan was the global trading currency 😒

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## R Wing

LeGenD said:


> This is disingenuous.
> 
> 1. Iraq invaded and annexed Kuwait in 1990. US-led forces protected KSA and liberated Kuwait in 1991 with UN mandate.
> 
> 2. Yugoslavian Civil War and its implications.
> 
> 3. Yugoslavian Civil War and its implications.
> 
> 4. Home to Al-Qaeda Network which was responsible for numerous terrorists attacks around the world including 9/11. US-led forces dismantled Al-Qaeda Network in the region with UN mandate.
> 
> 5. Controversial development but the oppressive Saddam regime is gone for good?
> 
> 6. Qaddafi regime was about to commit genocide in politically rebellious Benghazi.
> 
> 7. Assad regime is responsible for destruction of Syria.
> 
> Can WE stop making excuses for oppressive dictators?
> 
> I have marked that post as trolling and removed it. Let this be a reminder that sheer amount of likes on a post won't make it exempt to judgement.



I disagree with your characterization. Pinning the destruction of Libya/Syria on their dictators is an unfortunate stance; the issue is obviously more complex. The West has either gladly watched similar massacres/similar levels of oppression when it fits into their hegemonic goals (e.g., Israel, or the Saudi regime) and has committed scorched Earth tactics of its own (Fallujah, etc.) - including the use of some sort of chemical warfare there.

Politics is not about who might be oppressive. The only question is: what's the alternative? In Syria, it would have been - as Harvard professor Stephen Walt and University of Chicago professor Mearsheimer have pointed out - is radical jihadists and warring factions. Your 'oppressive dictators' bring about a sense of order and are often the best of the bad options in complex regions / countries.

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## khansaheeb

LeGenD said:


> You nailed it. I was hooked to Sheikh Imran Hosein at some point but I gradually realized that this man has lost his way.


Isn't a preemptive defensive attack allowed, don't USA , Israel etc use this doctrine? So why isn't Russia allowed to defend itself from the hordes of NATO ? The risk is if Russia has drawn the line in Ukraine they may use immoral weapons of semi-mass-destruction including depleted uranium weapons, nuke artillery, chemical and biological weapons etc. The moment the Russians decide it's do or die we can expect all hell to break loose and all kinds of weapons to be used. It's important for responsible states to ensure that the war is limited and dampers are put in place to prevent unlimited escalation. The only losers will be a devastated Ukraine.

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## PakAlp

JustAnotherPerson said:


> View attachment 819104
> 
> 
> Without negotiations Ukraine is going to be cut in half. The only territory left will be a land locked region in the west.



Extreme sanctions have been placed and Russia has been removed from SWIFT. What has Russia got to loose now. They will leave a landlocked Ukraine and join China CIPS. We will see a unipolar world. NATO has a policy, your either with us or against us. China also needs to think, they have Hong Kong and Taiwan issues, in the future China could also face severe sanctions. Its best to plan for it now. Let the west know Asia/Russia can survive without them.


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## khansaheeb

Ali_Baba said:


> The number of cruise missile attacks have dropped to nothing right now - does look like the Russians have run out of cruise missiles.


Most likely they have run out of targets.

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## R Wing

Oldman1 said:


> How is it a warcrime? You see a large enemy force you bomb it. Unless there was a ceasefire or the war ended, you attack them. Whether they are advancing or retreating.



Disgusting.

'Enemy' based on your invasion of a sovereign nation on pretexts that were later revealed to be fake/fabricated? Don't defend this shit, please. These moral quandaries can't be reduced to simple tactical explanations, as you have put forth.

What you were even doing there is the bigger question. The only way you'll be taken seriously by balanced minds on this forum is if you can first confront the atrocious human rights record and hypocrisy of the US (especially relative to the fact that it's apparently a liberal democratic nation). You cannot claim any form of moral high ground when successive governments have conveniently weaponized the idea of human rights and liberty as tools of hegemony.

For the US, Israel's occupation and apartheid-like tactics in Palestine are totally fine. Removing democratically elected leaders to install autocratic US puppets is fine (you have a long history of this, from South America to Iran). Selling billions in arms to dictatorships like you have been in Saudi Arabia is fine.

The above examples demonstrate that human rights, occupations, and democracies are not what matter --- it's just grand strategy and hegemonic interests. All that matters is who is doing what - and how they fit into America's worldview.

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## khansaheeb

PakAlp said:


> Extreme sanctions have been placed and Russia has been removed from SWIFT. What has Russia got to loose now. They will leave a landlocked Ukraine and join China CIPS. We will see a unipolar world. NATO has a policy, your either with us or against us. China also needs to think, they have Hong Kong and Taiwan issues, in the future China could also face severe sanctions. Its best to plan for it now. Let the west know Asia/Russia can survive without them.


Surely you mean multipolar don't you?

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## thetutle

Wergeland said:


> If this report is true then Russia should eleminate every single on of these nazi beasts. Send them to hell once and for all.


Yes, destroy the nazis so the zionists can have total control?


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## R Wing

gambit said:


> Why should I? The US military have the copies. But please continue. I know you are less interested in the actual subject as a learning event and more about trying to put US in a negative light.
> 
> 
> You should know that an allegation does not qualify as evidence, let alone proof. it does not matter if the source is a famous US magazine or from the Taliban.



But civilian casualties and rights abuses caused by questionable US 'interventions' are well-documented, especially those by the military and CIA-backed 'rebel groups' (terrorists). 

Do you at least acknowledge the problematic moral ground the US is standing on? It's more like quick sand, or at least shifting sands, than anything firm. You're sinking into it the more you dig into arrogant interpretations of hegemony. My 2c. But, by all means, keep sharing stuff that everybody will consider one-sided; you'll only be wasting your own time, really.

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## RescueRanger

They can’t even do propaganda photos properly. Just seen this on Twitter:








I’m all for people defending their country and promote the hell of such selfless people. But not when they are rocking air soft (bb) rifles:

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## PakAlp

khansaheeb said:


> Surely you mean multipolar don't you?



Its way past my bed time 😆

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## khansaheeb

thetutle said:


> Yes, destroy the nazis so the zionists can have total control?


Talking of Nazis:-









Israel takes sides in Ukraine invasion, braces for consequences in Syria - Breaking Defense


Jerusalem had tried to placate Russia to keep a free hand against regional rivals.




breakingdefense.com






​Israel takes sides in Ukraine invasion, braces for consequences in Syria​Jerusalem had tried to placate Russia to keep a free hand against regional rivals.​By ARIE EGOZIon February 24, 2022 at 11:07 AM




Israeli Foreign Minister Yair Lapid gives remarks at the U.S. Capitol on October 12, 2021 in Washington, DC. (Photo by Anna Moneymaker/Getty Images)
TEL AVIV: After weeks of attempting to keep the diplomatic peace with Russia over the looming invasion of Ukraine, Israel has denounced Russian President Vladimir Putin’s unprovoked incursion — prompting worry from Israeli defense sources that Moscow could retaliate by strangling Israeli operations in Syria.
Though Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett did not mention Russia in an address today, Foreign Minister Yair Lapid condemned the attack on Ukraine as a “serious violation of the international order.”
“The first hours and days of any war are also the last time you can still stop and return to the negotiating table, mediated by world powers, to settle disputes peacefully,” Lapid said. “Israel has experienced wars, and war is not a method of resolving conflicts.” That message came a day after, again without mentioning Russia, Israel backed Ukraine’s territorial integrity and sovereignty.
In response, Russian officials in a United Nations Security Council meeting criticized Israel’s occupation of the Golan Heights and said Russia does not recognize Israel’s sovereignty there.
What appears to be a diplomatic tiff could have immediate real-world consequences for Israel, which has relied on Moscow to allow it to launch military strikes against Iran-backed forces in Syria and stop Iranian-made weapons systems from transiting Syria on their way to Hezbollah in Lebanon. Earlier this month Breaking Defense reported that Israel went so far as to preemptively deny the transfer of Israeli weapons from Baltic states to Ukraine in an effort to appease the Kremlin.
The concern over Iran and its proxies is especially acute, sources here said, if the US signs a new nuclear deal with Iran, which one source said would cause Tehran to “increase its supply chain of advanced weapons systems” to Hezbollah via Syria.
In recent months Israel has intensified its operations against Iran and its various proxies, but even before the Ukraine invasion, Russia appeared to be less comfortable with Israeli operations in Syria. In a show of solidarity with Syria, Moscow flew a joint aerial patrol of Russian and Syrian military jets over the Golan Heights at the end of January. The Russian discomfort of Israeli operations also caused Israel to perform some of the attacks using ground-to-ground missiles and not air-dropped weapon systems, as noted by Eldad Shavit, a senior researcher in the Israeli Institute for National Security Studies (INSS).




LAND WARFARE, SPONSORED
Army to industry: What technologies will increase our ability to drive electrification to the tactical edge?​The Army’s on-the-horizon electric, tactical wheeled vehicles need to align with the commercial market so that industry can both build and sustain them.
From BREAKING DEFENSE
“The Russians may use the Middle East as an example to the US for what they can do in other parts of the world,” the researcher said. He added it was possible that more than hamper Israel, Russia might actually encourage Iran and its proxies to act against US forces in the region and against Israel.
For its part, Iran has firmly taken Russia’s side in the Ukraine invasion, saying it was “rooted in NATO provocations,” but still called for a ceasefire. “We do not see resorting to war as a solution,” Iranian Foreign Minister Hossein Amirabdollahian said on Twitter.


----------



## thetutle

Dalit said:


> LOL You think Ukraine can win a war against Russia? You can send another consignment of a million. Zero impact.



They have a similar chance as Afghanistan had.


----------



## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497716465390309385

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## thetutle

The Lost Brother said:


> Why muslim brothers are making it a muslim vs west fight ? Are not chechens tortured by Russians ? Ukrainian people does not have to do anything with religion. They are defending themselves against aggressor which is unfortunately Russia.



Because there are a lot of Muslims that think Russia is friendlier to muslims and think thats Putin is not a hardcore zionist. But this is totally wrong.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497746169786634242

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## khansaheeb

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497716465390309385


Seems like they have a burning passion for these.

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## Brainsucker

KAL-EL said:


> And that will go directly into suicide.


Yeah, suicide yes. The problem is,will Western countries willing to die with them. You know, I remember long time ago that people call Russians as Crazy Ivan. And well, Putin is indeed crazy.

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## thetutle

_Nabil_ said:


> The Ukrainian Zio regime was the first one to recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israhell, isn't enough for you?
> 
> Ukraine was the third contingency in the war against Irak, isn't enough for you?
> 
> Ukrainian Zio President, mocking Islam and Muslim when doing comic shows, isn't enough for you?



What you fail to understand is that this is one zionist power fighting another zionist power. 

The only difference is that that America and Most of Europe were not Muslim lands. Russia on the other hand is built on a muslim graveyard, that they created, from Crimea to Mongolia.

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## _Nabil_

thetutle said:


> Yes, destroy the nazis so the zionists can have total control?


Those Nazis are only Nazis against Muslims, Eastern, Black, brown, yellow, ....

They are the creation of CIA and west

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## Taimoor Khan

Daniel808 said:


> Gostomel firmly in Russian control (especially from Chechen)
> 
> What a huge blow for ukraine, that’s mean Ukraine defence lines around northwest kiev have been collapsed
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497580840808812546




PMIK meet with Chechen leader literally a day before Chechens were send into Ukraine.







This conflict started literally hours before IK-Putin one to one meeting.

The friendship between IK and Belarus president is bit , how shall I put, unusual?









My heart say that Pakistan got nothing to do with this conflict, mind however is taking 180 degree POV. There are many "coincidences" happening.

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## Paul2

Now I seen videos with Russian policemen in POWs.

Are they really starting throwing riot police at an army?


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## thetutle

lastofthepatriots said:


> View attachment 819033
> 
> 
> Kadyrov’s main dog killed. Kadyrov is crying and is shocked about Ukraine having so much weaponry.



How are these guys any different to the Palestinians who are in the israeli army?



Khanate said:


> It is a principled stance but I don't support bloody Nazis.



Nobody hates Nazis more than israel. Isn't the best way to fight Nazis to fully support israel?

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## Taimoor Khan

TNT said:


> Ukraine is a more than 600,000 km sq area and u saying they havent touched "half" of Ukraine in 3 days shows what a big moron u are.



It took these yanks along with the army of "allies" two full fledged campaigns, indiscriminate bombing of cities, to occupy Iraq (438,317 km²) , a country with no support, no weapons manufacturing capabilities and run by camel jokies!

These yanks and their poodles are insult to human intelligence.

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## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497753379933622273

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497752669343072262

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497752643821015043


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## Clutch




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## thetutle

RescueRanger said:


> The problem is that movements such as this usually inspire offshoots, they network and they expand to dream to carry out bigger and more spectacular attacks.
> 
> After the massacre of 51 people in Christchurch, New Zealand, in 2019—an arm of the Azov movement helped distribute the terrorist’s raving manifesto, in print and online, seeking to glorify his crimes and inspire others to follow. In the 16 years that followed the attacks of 9/11, far-right groups were responsible for nearly three-quarters of the 85 deadly extremist incidents that took place on American soil, according to a report published in 2017 by the U.S. Government Accountability Office.
> 
> Every society and culture has a problem with extremism and violent extremism, Muslims have the Taliban and militant fighters, neo-Christian and even agnostic movements have both Nazi and Antifa inspired movements. My point here is, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck - it's a duck!



Without a doubt, Nazis are a dangerous and deadly ideology and considered as terrorist organisations by western countries. But there is a growing discontent with young men in western countries that are fed up with zionist control of their lives and their countries. 

And this clash between far right and zionism is going to happen sooner or later. Muslims would be smart to stay out of that one.


----------



## Clutch




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## K_Bin_W

330 pages and Amreeka has still not liberated Ukraine I am very disappointed. Amreeka never took that long to liberate Kuwait and Eyraq and half a dozen other places... Is Amreeka OK, hope it's doing well!!!!

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## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497759084853940226


----------



## Clutch

thetutle said:


> Without a doubt, Nazis are a dangerous and deadly ideology and considered as terrorist organisations by western countries. But there is a growing discontent with young men in western countries that are fed up with zionist control of their lives and their countries.
> 
> And this clash between far right and zionism is going to happen sooner or later. Muslims would be smart to stay out of that one.



I disagree. The new Nazism has actually made peace with Zionist and Judaism .... Case in point, the undersigned Ukrainian President Zelensky is a Jew and he has supported the Azov Nazi Battalion.

*Even Israel has been arming the Nazis.... Didnt you figure out why??

The Nazi new Jews are us.... Muslims. Wake up.*

Rights Groups Demand Israel Stop Arming neo-Nazis in Ukraine
Human rights activists petition the court to cease Israeli arms exports to Ukraine since some of these weapons reach neo-Nazi elements in Ukraine’s security forces

John Brown
Jul. 9, 2018


group of more than 40 human rights activists have filed a petition with the High Court of Justice, demanding the cessation of Israeli arms exports to Ukraine.

They argue that these weapons serve forces that openly espouse a neo-Nazi ideology and cite evidence that the right-wing Azov militia, whose members are part of Ukraine’s armed forces, and are supported by the country’s ministry of internal affairs, is using these weapon

s.s.








Rights groups demand Israel stop arming neo-Nazis in Ukraine


***




www.haaretz.com





@thetutle said:

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## Brainsucker

thetutle said:


> Without a doubt, Nazis are a dangerous and deadly ideology and considered as terrorist organisations by western countries. But there is a growing discontent with young men in western countries that are fed up with zionist control of their lives and their countries.
> 
> And this clash between far right and zionism is going to happen sooner or later. Muslims would be smart to stay out of that one.



Well, everyone have their own right to take side of this war. They also have their own right to condemn any sides. But I hope not in this thread. Because we are in a thread with title "Russia-Ukraine War News and Development". So maybe we can stick on the news and military side of the conflict, and put ideological and political war bickering in another thread. Ok, I get it. Putin is crazy, but I come to this thread to read the development of the war, not talk about right or wrong of any side.

It is better if somebody can make a thread for military analytics of this conflict. If you are a military man, understand know-how of military operation, you can make a writing so people in this forum can learn. Of course, others can debate your view, with of course, as long as they have military expertise that can be share with us.

Why? Because PDF is a military based forum. It has been to long for us to get some worthy military analyst that can broaden our horizon. Well, at least for me, a fan boy who want to learn.

What do you think? @The Eagle

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## thetutle

Wergeland said:


> Look at the Chinese, nowhere near the ally Russia hoped for. They are getting contained by America in South China Sea but still not a single voice of support from Beijing. Not any economic deals to ease sanctions on the Russians.


Chinese will be looking to pick the corpse of the failing Russian empire and get its land back in outer Manchuria. The west does not hold and Chinese land. Unlike Russia.

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## Khanate

*Awkward racism on BBC
*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497673230814953473

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## Clutch

thetutle said:


> How are these guys any different to the Palestinians who are in the israeli army?
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody hates Nazis more than israel. Isn't the best way to fight Nazis to fully support israel?



Your information about Jews and Nazi hating each other is dated.... You need to update your understanding

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## thetutle

QWECXZ said:


> Iran has nothing to lose and Russia has a lot to sell to Iran, including modern jet fighters, submarines, tanks, radars, etc. Iran will happily sign billion dollar military contracts with Russia if Russia no longer worries about Western sanctions.


Russia wont sell this stuff to Iran even now. Russia does not want Iran threatening Israel and Russia will do anything to protect Israel.

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## xyx007

Ukrian Jewish presidents.
Putin disrupts US and Israeli plans. 🇺🇦 He is preoccupied with joining one of the great Israelis' ranks.

Yet it does not make any sense why this stupid jewish president that world powers have put in the helm of the presidency with no prior experience
how a comedian by profession can handle such a crisis. Ukrainians are paying the price for his mistakes.
He was executing a plan design by US and Isreal to break away from the Russians using join NATO in order to reach central asian countries Afghanistan and Pakistan.
To disseminate the China Belt and Road Initiative and CPEC project, which were joint projects with Russia. There is no doubt that this is an example of how a Jewish plot has been disrupted by Putin. For this reason, he should seek to earn the respect of Muslims

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## FairAndUnbiased

thetutle said:


> Chinese will be looking to pick the corpse of the failing Russian empire and get its land back in outer Manchuria. The west does not hold and Chinese land. Unlike Russia.


ah you speak for Chinese now. Interesting. Even though there are multiple Chinese members here, you, from the other side of the planet, decide to speak for us.

You realize that Chinese in general don't even want Japan to become a failed state? Now think about Russia which has the highest approval rate of any foreign country in China.

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## ZeEa5KPul

Khanate said:


> *Awkward racism on BBC*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497673230814953473


Did this guy ever look at himself in a mirror? What's he talking about blond hair and blue eyes for?

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## _Nabil_

thetutle said:


> How are these guys any different to the Palestinians who are in the israeli army?
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody hates Nazis more than israel. Isn't the best way to fight Nazis to fully support israel?


*Here, you propose to support Israel !!!!*


thetutle said:


> Without a doubt, Nazis are a dangerous and deadly ideology and considered as terrorist organisations by western countries. But there is a growing discontent with young men in western countries that are fed up with zionist control of their lives and their countries.
> 
> And this clash between far right and zionism is going to happen sooner or later. Muslims would be smart to stay out of that one.


*Here Zionists are bad and anti Nazis*



thetutle said:


> Chinese will be looking to pick the corpse of the failing Russian empire and get its land back in outer Manchuria. The west does not hold and Chinese land. Unlike Russia.


*When debunked about Nazis and Zionists you move to flame China
*


thetutle said:


> Russia wont sell this stuff to Iran even now. Russia does not want Iran threatening Israel and Russia will do anything to protect Israel.


*Then Russia is the evil protecting Israhell*

Never ending trolling in less than 10mn time lapse ....

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## thetutle

_Nabil_ said:


> *Here, you propose to support Israel !!!!
> 
> Here Zionists are bad and anti Nazis
> 
> 
> When debunked about Nazis and Zionists you move to flame China
> 
> 
> Then Russia is the evil protecting Israhell*
> 
> Never ending trolling in less than 10mn time lapse ....



I am just pointing out the illogical thinking in supporting Russia thinking it is against Zionists.

And I am also pointing out the other absurdity in hating nazis if you are so anti zionsit. The only groups today against zionism in the west are the nazis. 

I support the west over Russia any day. This is noting to do with zionism, as both the west and Russia as rabidly zionist.


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## _Nabil_

thetutle said:


> I am just pointing out the illogical thinking in supporting Russia thinking it is against Zionists.
> 
> And I am also pointing out the other absurdity in hating nazis if you are so anti zionsit. *The only groups today against zionism in the west are the nazis*.
> 
> I support the west over Russia any day. This is noting to do with zionism, as both the west and Russia as rabidly zionist.


Nope they aren't opposed at all, all Nazis activities in the past 20 years are against Arab, Turkish, Muslims,... Not a single agression against Jews.

You are misleading are many members already explained to you that.

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## Khanate

*Iraq vs Ukraine*

1. Hundreds of followers asked us to comment on the comparisons to US invading Iraq and Russia invading Ukraine. Let's break it down a little bit.

2. USA took 300.000 soldiers to Iraq-- a country considerably smaller than Ukraine, and not nearly as densely populated. It took the US 3 weeks to take Iraq. Iraq was getting 0 outside support and had no intelligence capability -- nor was Iraq being fed intelligence around the clock.

3. Ukraine, by contrast, has full intel around the clock from the entire NATO, is armed and is still being armed by NATO, is very densely populated, much larger and Russia has only about *30-40k troops inside of Ukraine at the moment*.

4. Russia is moving quickly, while doing an outstanding job at avoiding civilian casualties in an invasion of a country this large and majority of Ukraine's forces using cities as strategic assets.

5. From a military perspective, Russia is still employing a minimum of its capability in terms of manpower, & especially, firepower. Russia is using very simple weaponry & used nothing it has developed in the last 20 years -- except Kalibr. No evidence of combat drones, loitering munitions, hypersonic missiles, EW, or widespread airstrikes. This is a fraction of what RUS uses in Syria.

6. Casualties, a realistic estimate which is still likely inflated if considered for Russian forces on their own -- is from the British MOD, which estimates 400 Russian losses. This is likely accurate IF combined with forces from LPR and DPR.

7. The most contrasting thing is this: the US was not worried about civilian casualties, they were simply collateral-- and it still took them 3 weeks. Casulties: This is from 2008, number is much higher these days -- Iraq conflict has killed a million Iraqis: survey.

8. Russia's invasion of Ukraine has only just started, and that is in context of timeline -- and also capability employed. Russia is moving much faster through densely populated land, with 7x less manpower being used That's our view on it, for those who asking. Hope it helps.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497756392136060932



thetutle said:


> Chinese will be looking to pick the corpse of the failing Russian empire and get its land back in outer Manchuria. The west does not hold and Chinese land. Unlike Russia.




What China wants is a peaceful reunification of Taiwan and control over South China sea for trade.

These are hardly maximalist goals.

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## Chacha_Facebooka

He is on US senate intelligence committee. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497772049283969028


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## BHAN85

Poor Ukraine, used by the West/USA against Russia and left alone when troubles start.

Ukraine is the Western pet.

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## thetutle

_Nabil_ said:


> Nope they aren't opposed at all, all Nazis activities in the past 20 years are against Arab, Turkish, Muslims,... Not a single agression against Jews.
> 
> You are misleading are many members already explained to you that.



Most of these organisations in the west are infiltrated by the intelligence agencies and some are funded by Russians to serve their own interests. 

Of course they dont like non European immigrants, and they are dangerous groups, but let me repeat, there is no western group that opposes zionism more than the nazis. 

Anyone that knows anything about that ideology will see this is very plain and obvious. 

To suggest that Ukraine is some nazi state run by a jew is just ridiculous Russian propaganda. Its insulting to our intelligence. 

Also to suggest Russia is some sort of fighter against zionism is also insulting our intelligence. 

If you support Russia for your own reasons fine. But dont expect everyone else to drink the Kool aid.

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## Beny Karachun

xyx007 said:


> Ukrian Jewish presidents.
> Putin disrupts US and Israeli plans. 🇺🇦 He is preoccupied with joining one of the great Israelis' ranks.
> 
> Yet it does not make any sense why this stupid jewish president that world powers have put in the helm of the presidency with no prior experience
> how a comedian by profession can handle such a crisis. Ukrainians are paying the price for his mistakes.
> He was executing a plan design by US and Isreal to break away from the Russians using join NATO in order to reach central asian countries Afghanistan and Pakistan.
> To disseminate the China Belt and Road Initiative and CPEC project, which were joint projects with Russia. There is no doubt that this is an example of how a Jewish plot has been disrupted by Putin. For this reason, he should seek to earn the respect of Muslims


Idiotic low IQ ape, this president has more balls, is more honest and is smarter than any leader your country has ever had.

Ukrainians aren't paying the price, Russians are, Russian casualties are massive.

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## beijingwalker

Russians have not sent in their main group of soldiers yet​

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## Beny Karachun

BHAN85 said:


> Poor Ukraine, used by the West/USA against Russia and left alone when troubles start.
> 
> Ukraine is the Western pet.


Lol, Ukrainians aren't used, Russia attacked them, and they defend against it, Ukraine is now united against Russia and is currently f*cking them up.


----------



## CrazyZ

Khanate said:


> 3 weeks to take Iraq


It took about a month to get USA forces into a dominant position in Baghdad. Mopping up operations against fedayeen lasted a few months after that. Similar experience for British in Basra. Low grade insurgency then continued for years afterwards. Iraq had been sanctioned for years prior to being invaded.....it was far weaker then Ukraine and received no international assistance. Its way too early to say the Russians are bogged down. They are surrounding Kiev in only a few days. They are advancing rapidly when compared to coalition that invaded Iraq.

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## Beny Karachun

beijingwalker said:


> Russians have not sent in their main group of soldiers yet​


Hahahaha, they'll die like their friends, dozens of armored columns have been destroyed.


----------



## beijingwalker

Beny Karachun said:


> Hahahaha, they'll die like their friends, dozens of armored columns have been destroyed.


Who are you? we are here to watch how this war plays out, not your mindless ranting.

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## gambit

Khanate said:


> *Iraq vs Ukraine*
> 
> 1. Hundreds of followers asked us to comment on the comparisons to US invading Iraq and Russia invading Ukraine. Let's break it down a little bit.
> 
> 2. USA took 300.000 soldiers to Iraq-- a country considerably smaller than Ukraine, and not nearly as densely populated. It took the US 3 weeks to take Iraq. Iraq was getting 0 outside support and had no intelligence capability -- nor was Iraq being fed intelligence around the clock.
> 
> 3. Ukraine, by contrast, has full intel around the clock from the entire NATO, is armed and is still being armed by NATO, is very densely populated, much larger and Russia has only about *30-40k troops inside of Ukraine at the moment*.
> 
> 4. Russia is moving quickly, while doing an outstanding job at avoiding civilian casualties in an invasion of a country this large and majority of Ukraine's forces using cities as strategic assets.
> 
> 5. From a military perspective, Russia is still employing a minimum of its capability in terms of manpower, & especially, firepower. Russia is using very simple weaponry & used nothing it has developed in the last 20 years -- except Kalibr. No evidence of combat drones, loitering munitions, hypersonic missiles, EW, or widespread airstrikes. This is a fraction of what RUS uses in Syria.
> 
> 6. Casualties, a realistic estimate which is still likely inflated if considered for Russian forces on their own -- is from the British MOD, which estimates 400 Russian losses. This is likely accurate IF combined with forces from LPR and DPR.
> 
> 7. The most contrasting thing is this: the US was not worried about civilian casualties, they were simply collateral-- and it still took them 3 weeks. Casulties: This is from 2008, number is much higher these days -- Iraq conflict has killed a million Iraqis: survey.
> 
> 8. Russia's invasion of Ukraine has only just started, and that is in context of timeline -- and also capability employed. Russia is moving much faster through densely populated land, with 7x less manpower being used That's our view on it, for those who asking. Hope it helps.


The scuttlebutt is that Putin is furious at his generals. He wanted the war to be over or at least greater than 50/50 over. But that is not what is happening. The low civilian casualties came from Ukrainian resistance, not because the Russian army have any compunction about brutality. The minimum the Russian army is using came from the lack of logistics, which came from the economy, which was already in poor state. Nice spin, though.

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## CrazyZ

Beny Karachun said:


> Hahahaha, they'll die like their friends, dozens of armored columns have been destroyed.


I remember a quote about the red army during WW2....Red army was the biggest meat grinder in human history.....not only to its enemies but also its own troops.

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## Beny Karachun

beijingwalker said:


> Who are you? we are here to watch how this war plays out, not your mindless ranting.


I also watch how this war played out, that's just my analysis.
It's insane how bad the Russian military is.
Tanks out of fuel, a bunch of junk inside them, unprotected columns of supplies, artillery and troops getting massacred. 

Russia has so many casualties, in 44 days of Gulf War the US didn't have a number of casualties that's even close to what the Russians got in just 2 days in this conflict.

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## Khanate

*Must Bangladesh be worried?*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496943673250127883

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## Beny Karachun

CrazyZ said:


> I remember a quote about the red army during WW2....Red army was the biggest meat grinder in human history.....not only to its enemies but also its own troops.


Insane how the Russians never learn.


----------



## gambit

R Wing said:


> Disgusting.
> 
> 'Enemy' based on your invasion of a sovereign nation on pretexts that were later revealed to be fake/fabricated? Don't defend this shit, please. These moral quandaries can't be reduced to simple tactical explanations, as you have put forth.
> 
> What you were even doing there is the bigger question. The only way you'll be taken seriously by balanced minds on this forum is if you can first confront the atrocious human rights record and hypocrisy of the US (especially relative to the fact that it's apparently a liberal democratic nation). You cannot claim any form of moral high ground when successive governments have conveniently weaponized the idea of human rights and liberty as tools of hegemony.
> 
> For the US, Israel's occupation and apartheid-like tactics in Palestine are totally fine. Removing democratically elected leaders to install autocratic US puppets is fine (you have a long history of this, from South America to Iran). Selling billions in arms to dictatorships like you have been in Saudi Arabia is fine.
> 
> The above examples demonstrate that human rights, occupations, and democracies are not what matter --- it's just grand strategy and hegemonic interests. All that matters is who is doing what - and how they fit into America's worldview.


To defend Russia, the US and Israel had to be dragged in.


----------



## Beny Karachun

Paul2 said:


> Now I seen videos with Russian policemen in POWs.
> 
> Are they really starting throwing riot police at an army?


They're disguising themselves as police to infiltrate Kyiv.


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## beijingwalker

From the avaible footages we didn't see large scale bombing and shelling like what Nato did whey they fight in foreign lands, it's not actually a full scale war and Russians are clearly restrained from using all its force. The strategy is more about putting pressure on Ukraine over future talk.

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## Amigator

Daniel808 said:


> Big Catch today
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497063602183884839
> From Mariupol
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497465414519226375
> Reported : Russian Tricolor flag raised at Melitopol City
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497462413083521031


That's funny!


----------



## gambit

beijingwalker said:


> From the avaible footages we didn't see large scale bombing and shelling like what Nato did whey they fight in foreign lands, it's not actually a full scale war and Russians are clearly restrained from using all its force.


Because the Russian economy could not support the logistics of the war.



beijingwalker said:


> The strategy is more about putting pressure on Ukraine over future talk.


Given the support Ukraine is receiving, militarily and morally, looks like that pressure is deflating.


----------



## Clutch

Beny Karachun said:


> Idiotic low IQ ape, this president has more balls, is more honest and is smarter than any leader your country has ever had.
> 
> Ukrainians aren't paying the price, Russians are, Russian casualties are massive.


*Are you seriously comparing the Clown Ukrainian Clown President with the Lion Prime Minister of Pakistan????*

Really????... You mean this guy?






..
.
.
Versus this guy???...

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## Mad Scientist 2.0

Khanate said:


> *Must Bangladesh be worried?*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496943673250127883


Not quite so it is complex. As Pakistan is hovering on the other side. Politicians are different than the Armed forces ,they will calculate the pros and cons before attacking, and the cons are more. Bangladesh has too much dependency and friendly relations that attacking it won't serve any purpose. Forcefully annexing it will create a huge war on multiple fronts.


----------



## Khanate

*Subtle... *😉

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## thetutle

Brainsucker said:


> Why? Because PDF is a military based forum. It has been to long for us to get some worthy military analyst that can broaden our horizon. Well, at least for me, a fan boy who want to learn.



Its obvious that militarily, Ukraine is getting crushed. But its also true that NATO has tremendous capability and almost unlimited resources to fund an insurrection and hurt Russia very hard many many tomes greater than it did in Afghanistan. Ukrainian army is very sophisticated. Its soldiers speak Russian and look Russian. Armed with NATO intelligence and weapons they will absolutely destroy the Russian army in the long term. 

At the same time, Ukranians can much easier identify the Russians pretending to be Ukrainian, because Russians dont speak Ukrainian, especially if they are form central Russia or Moscow and especially if they are from caucasus. 

I would be very worried if I was an occupying force in Ukraine.

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## Amigator

Daniel808 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497357644432277505


This is very funny. This war is going comical.

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## khansaheeb

_Nabil_ said:


> Those Nazis are only Nazis against Muslims, Eastern, Black, brown, yellow, ....
> 
> They are the creation of CIA and west


Nazis and Zionazis, what is this world coming to?

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## Beny Karachun

Clutch said:


> Really????... You mean this guy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..
> .
> .
> Versus this guy???...


Yes.
It's only as the waves get stronger, the strong are shown.
Your president never had the ****ing Spetznaz trying to hunt him down while your capital is under attack by overwhelming numbers. 

Also, Zelensky is a self made millionaire. You're trying to say that someone with a sense of humor can't be a good leader, which is the most retarded pretense I've ever heard.


----------



## beijingwalker

gambit said:


> Because the Russian economy could not support the logistics of the war.


Only fools believe this claim, you don't believe it yourself, do you? Russia has enough fire power to wipe out villages, cities and towns, but this fight is more like a coup scale of fighting ,not a full scale war.

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## khansaheeb

Taimoor Khan said:


> PMIK meet with Chechen leader literally a day before Chechens were send into Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This conflict started literally hours before IK-Putin one to one meeting.
> 
> The friendship between IK and Belarus president is bit , how shall I put, unusual?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My heart say that Pakistan got nothing to do with this conflict, mind however is taking 180 degree POV. There are many "coincidences" happening.


I can see conspiracy theories coming up.

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## Suriya

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497555947023224836

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## Beny Karachun

thetutle said:


> Its obvious that militarily, Ukraine is getting crushed. But its also true that NATO has tremendous capability and almost unlimited resources to fund an insurrection and hurt Russia very hard many many tomes greater than it did in Afghanistan. Ukrainian army is very sophisticated. Its soldiers speak Russian and look Russian. Armed with NATO intelligence and weapons they will absolutely destroy the Russian army in the long term.
> 
> At the same time, Ukranians can much easier identify the Russians pretending to be Ukrainian, because Russians dont speak Ukrainian, especially if they are form central Russia or Moscow and especially if they are from caucasus.
> 
> I would be very worried if I was an occupying force in Ukraine.


Russian military is getting crushed. Russia said they have no casualties, which is a joke.


----------



## Bengal71

RescueRanger said:


> This, 100% this, I cringe every time I hear News Presenters at pains to diplomatically refer to Kyiv as a modern city and how it traumatizing it would be to see bombing and large scale combat without devastating damage. This of course is a thinly veiled dig at the "uncivilized" and backwards cities that were okay to be bombed to shit.



Sometimes I feel that a major war breaks out in Europe. They should taste their own medicine. Rest of the world will have some respite while they are fighting it out.

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## gambit

Taimoor Khan said:


> It took these yanks along with the army of "allies" two full fledged campaigns, indiscriminate bombing of cities, to occupy Iraq (438,317 km²) , a country with no support, no weapons manufacturing capabilities and run by camel jokies!
> 
> These yanks and their poodles are insult to human intelligence.


Not our fault if the Soviet Union and China *REFUSED* to help Iraq. It is not as if Iraq did not know that it was going to be *SEVERELY* outnumbered. And where was your Pakistan? But then again, maybe after Moscow and Beijing ran the numbers, they decided to say FU to Baghdad. This is war, not a boxing match. In wars, you gain numerical superiority in both hardware and manpower whenever and with whoever you can, failure and/or refusal to do so, do not complain if you lose. And as for the peanut gallery -- *YOU* -- mocking the winners when you lost no skin in the game just made you look foolish and ignorant.

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## Khanate

*Sanctions...*

China:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497750024041611266
India:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497162914586898475
US:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497259141513064461

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## khansaheeb

Amigator said:


> This is very funny. This war is going comical.


A lot of the Ukrainian soldiers are linked to the old USSR army and their loyalty was split at the time Ukraine went independent.


----------



## tower9

thetutle said:


> Its obvious that militarily, Ukraine is getting crushed. But its also true that NATO has tremendous capability and almost unlimited resources to fund an insurrection and hurt Russia very hard many many tomes greater than it did in Afghanistan. Ukrainian army is very sophisticated. Its soldiers speak Russian and look Russian. Armed with NATO intelligence and weapons they will absolutely destroy the Russian army in the long term.
> 
> At the same time, Ukranians can much easier identify the Russians pretending to be Ukrainian, because Russians dont speak Ukrainian, especially if they are form central Russia or Moscow and especially if they are from caucasus.
> 
> I would be very worried if I was an occupying force in Ukraine.


Yep. The Ukraine might become Russia’s Vietnam but even more draining.


----------



## CrazyZ

Beny Karachun said:


> Yes.
> It's only as the waves get stronger, the strong are shown.
> Your president never had the ****ing Spetznaz trying to hunt him down while your capital is under attack by overwhelming numbers.
> 
> Also, Zelensky is a self made millionaire. You're trying to say that someone with a sense of humor can't be a good leader, which is the most retarded pretense I've ever heard.


Zelensky is a moron. He could have avoided this war there is fine line between bravery and stupidly.

Compare to Imran Khan in Feb 2019......India launched an aggression against Pakistan. He guaranteed retaliation. Ordered the Nuke missiles ready for the first time in Pakistani history. Gave IAF a bloody nose. Served good tea to Indian pilot and released him to deescalate the situation.....This is called statesmanship. Zelensky is buffon in comparison.

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## _Nabil_

Beny Karachun said:


> Russian military is getting crushed. Russia said they have no casualties, which is a joke.


Will they need your commission of inquiry Winograd after you failed miserably in 2006 in your war against a country without an army ?

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## R Wing

thetutle said:


> How are these guys any different to the Palestinians who are in the israeli army?
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody hates Nazis more than israel. Isn't the best way to fight Nazis to fully support israel?



Israel actually hired / consulted with some Nazis to find others and to aid in some of their own defense projects. The world isn't binary / black & white.

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## Beny Karachun

beijingwalker said:


> Only fools believe this claim, you don't believe it yourself, do you? Russia has enough fire power to wipe out villages, cities and towns, but this fight is more like a coup scale of fighting ,not a full scale war.


Huh? if it's only a coup scale fight, Russia shouldn't have that many logistical problems. Russian army is considered a joke now by NATO.



_Nabil_ said:


> Will they need your commission of inquiry Winograd after you failed miserably in 2006 in your war against a country without an army ?


Lol, unlike the Russians, we killed 5 terrorists Hezbollah for every 1 Israeli, in Ukraine it's the opposite, 5 dead Russian for every one Ukranian


----------



## R Wing

Beny Karachun said:


> You know nothing then
> 
> 
> No one claimed it's from today
> 
> 
> Fake Russian psyops



Russian claims = PSYOPS

Western claims = must be facts

Applause for the logic of the century.

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## beijingwalker

Beny Karachun said:


> Russian army is considered a joke now by NATO.


Stop crazy ranting, just watch and see how it is playing out. If Nato is really that powerful, what stops it from wading in? No one cares about your mindless ranting, go and take a rest.

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## R Wing

Beny Karachun said:


> Russian military is getting crushed. Russia said they have no casualties, which is a joke.



In that case, Israel got raped when it invaded Lebanon --- because it lost some material and men.

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## GamoAccu

Suriya said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497555947023224836



Do Indians really believe this?

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## Beny Karachun

R Wing said:


> Russian claims = PSYOPS
> 
> Western claims = must be facts
> 
> Applause for the logic of the century.


Yes, considering this whole invasion was denied by Belarus and Russia, considering they broadcast how there's no Russian casualties in that operation to their citizens, considering that it isn't the first time they do psyops.


----------



## pakpride00090

thetutle said:


> How are these guys any different to the Palestinians who are in the israeli army?
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody hates Nazis more than israel. Isn't the best way to fight Nazis to fully support israel?



Now I know why Bosnians got massacred in 90s .... You guys are not even updated and your knowledge is so outdated.

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## Clutch

Beny Karachun said:


> Yes.
> It's only as the waves get stronger, the strong are shown.
> Your president never had the ****ing Spetznaz trying to hunt him down while your capital is under attack by overwhelming numbers.
> 
> Also, Zelensky is a self made millionaire. You're trying to say that someone with a sense of humor can't be a good leader, which is the most retarded pretense I've ever heard.



He isn't half the man Imran Khan is....

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## Beny Karachun

R Wing said:


> In that case, Israel got raped when it invaded Lebanon --- because it lost some material and men.


Israel lost 121 men, 2 helicopters, 5 tanks in 33 days, Russia lost 3500 men, 10 helicopters, 10 jets, over 100 tanks, hundreds of other military vehicles in just 3 days

Incomparable, Israeli army is so much more professional, even in 2006. Today it's much stronger.

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## Aspen

The puzzle pieces are certainly coming together nicely. What a time to be alive.


----------



## IblinI

Beny Karachun said:


> Israel lost 121 men, 2 helicopters, 5 tanks in 33 days, Russia lost 3500 men, 10 helicopters, 10 jets, over 100 tanks, hundreds of other military vehicles in just 3 days
> 
> Incomparable, Israeli army is so much more professional, even in 2006. Today it's much stronger.


Jewish the alien, lol, 3500 men in 3 days.

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## tower9

R Wing said:


> Russian claims = PSYOPS
> 
> Western claims = must be facts
> 
> Applause for the logic of the century.


He’s a shitty zionist propagandist. I would just avoid whatever he says because it’s just a repeat of the New York Times.

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## _Nabil_

Beny Karachun said:


> Huh? if it's only a coup scale fight, Russia shouldn't have that many logistical problems. Russian army is considered a joke now by NATO.
> 
> 
> Lol, unlike the Russians, we killed 5 terrorists for every 1 Israeli, in Ukraine it's the opposite, 5 dead Russian for every one Ukranian


Hey wake up from your wet dreams, there was no army in Lebanon, only a guerilla, read your damn Winograd report then talk.

Ukraine is ranked 13 in world army strength

Comparing your debacle in 2006 to Russian performance??? You didn't even cross the Litani River, not even Ra's Jbeyl village!!! looolz, you are just a clown in denial mode.

Russian is surrounding the Capital and the second biggest city

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## Beny Karachun

beijingwalker said:


> Stop crazy ranting, just watch and see how it is playing out. If Nato is really that powerful, what stops it from wading in? No one cares about your mindless ranting, go and take a rest.


Only nukes, believe me that if Russia hadn't had them, that poor, unorganized army would have been steamrolled long ago. The west is going to flood Ukraine with ATGMs and MANPADS and make Russia pay a lot for Putin's stupid decision

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## Khanate

*American CBS, British BBC, French BFM TV and now the Dutch join the racism gang*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497376842541584384

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## beast89

R Wing said:


> Russian claims = PSYOPS
> 
> Western claims = must be facts
> 
> Applause for the logic of the century.


the level of copium is off the charts. American redditors are believing myths like 5000 russian soldiers are refusing to fight and a Russian generals are gonna do a coup to oust Putin cos some guy on twitter said so. 3500 russian soldiers KIA source some Ukrainian inforgraphic. Issuing guns freely to civilians doesnt look like a winning side - now random criminals are shooting at each other,

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## Beny Karachun

_Nabil_ said:


> Hey wake up from your wet dreams, there was no army in Lebanon, only a guerilla, read your damn Winograd report then talk.
> 
> Ukraine in ranked 13 in world army strength
> 
> Comparing your debacle in 2006 to Russian performance??? You didn't even cross the Litani River, not even Ra's Jbeyl village!!! looolz, you are just a clown in denial mode.
> 
> Russian is surrounding the Capital and the second biggest city


Lol, anyways, you're a pathetic, clueless, mindless idiot. Russia's performance is honestly embarrassing, almost as embarrassing as those cavemen in Lebanon hiding in schools and hospitals.


----------



## thetutle

pakpride00090 said:


> Now I know why Bosnians got massacred in 90s .... You guys are not even updated and your knowledge is so outdated.



Please tell us why we got massacred? Should we join the Russian and Serbian empire to prevent future massacres? 

No thanks, we will watch their destruction by NATO, safe and sound in our country. And hopefully we join nato soon so we can help out.

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## pakpride00090

Beny Karachun said:


> Israel lost 121 men, 2 helicopters, 5 tanks in 33 days, Russia lost 3500 men, 10 helicopters, 10 jets, over 100 tanks, hundreds of other military vehicles in just 3 days
> 
> Incomparable, Israeli army is so much more professional, even in 2006. Today it's much stronger.



Where are you getting these russian figures from ? Source...

They are way too high to be considered truthful .

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## Suriya

GamoAccu said:


> Do Indians really believe this?
> 
> View attachment 819193


No. Some smart Indians doing comical gigs taking advantage of the moment.


----------



## Beny Karachun

https://****/ourwarstoday/2409

Look at that, just armored vehicles without fuel, soldiers don't even know where they're going or what's happening.



pakpride00090 said:


> Where are you getting these russian figures from ? Source...
> 
> They are way too high to be considered truthful .


Open https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/
And look how many columns of Russian vehicles were destroyed


----------



## K_Bin_W

pakpride00090 said:


> Where are you getting these russian figures from ? Source...
> 
> They are way too high to be considered truthful .


From western sources

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## pakpride00090

Beny Karachun said:


> https://****/ourwarstoday/2409
> 
> Look at that, just armored vehicles without fuel, soldiers don't even know where they're going or what's happening.
> 
> 
> Open https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/
> And look how many columns of Russian vehicles were destroyed



I am active on reddit and twitter. I know the subreddit. 

I am asking your 3500 figure ... Where did you get it from ?

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## beijingwalker

Beny Karachun said:


> Only nukes, believe me that if Russia hadn't had them, that poor, unorganized army would have been steamrolled long ago. The west is going to flood Ukraine with ATGMs and MANPADS and make Russia pay a lot for Putin's stupid decision


lOl, that was exactly what Hitler believed. Maybe Israel can try this out and send your mighty troops to steamroll Russia.

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## Beny Karachun

Ukrainians forgot the S-400 was an invincible super weapon and hit a Russian air base.



pakpride00090 said:


> I am active on reddit and twitter. I know the subreddit.
> 
> I am asking your 3500 figure ... Where did you get it from ?











Ukraine Killed 3,500 Russians, Ex-President Says, Amid Fierce Kyiv Battles


For comparison, fewer than 2,500 U.S. service members have died in Afghanistan, a war that spanned two decades.




www.newsweek.com

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## IblinI

beijingwalker said:


> lOl, that was exactly what Hitler believed. Maybe Israel can try this out and send your mighty troops to steamroll Russia.


ouch...

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## Khanate

*Africans blocked from the trains...*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497654141350522880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497470839863713793

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## pakpride00090

Khanate said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497654141350522880
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497470839863713793



White people doing what people do.

May the war expands to whole of europe....

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## khansaheeb

tower9 said:


> Yep. The Ukraine might become Russia’s Vietnam but even more draining.


Doubt it , as Russia borders Ukraine and has no problems getting weapons and troops across.

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## arjunk

RescueRanger said:


> I've Geo Located the position from where Ukranian's attacked a Russian Su-25 with MANPAD


A-10 titanium bathtub fans, what do you have to say.

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## thetutle

isn't it forbidden for men 18 to 60 to leave the country? Maybe its not race based.


----------



## Beny Karachun

Khanate said:


> *Africans blocked from the trains...*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497654141350522880
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497470839863713793


Train was full, not everything is revolved around Africans


----------



## CrazyZ

Beny Karachun said:


> View attachment 819197
> 
> View attachment 819198
> 
> View attachment 819199
> 
> 
> 
> There's no need to, seems like Ukraine is doing well enough alone.


Don't get obsessed with casualty figures. All that matters in the end is the strategic outcome. Iraq and Afghanistan were strategic failures for the USA. Afghanistan is controlled by the Taliban who cares about the kill ratio. Israel today is fighting over less territory after every conflict.

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## Beny Karachun

RescueRanger said:


> I've Geo Located the position from where Ukranian's attacked a Russian Su-25 with MANPADS.
> 
> *The Original video:*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497664378182774787
> Location: 46.64*N , 36.62*

















Su-25 hit by MANPADS in the Kherson region Kherson - Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine Latest news on live map - liveuamap.com


Su-25 hit by MANPADS in the Kherson region. Live Universal Awareness Map Liveuamap is a leading independent global news and information site dedicated to factual reporting of a variety of important topics including conflicts, human rights issues, protests, terrorism, weapons deployment, health...




liveuamap.com




Already available here

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## FairAndUnbiased

Beny Karachun said:


> Train was full, not everything is revolved around Africans


simple questions:

if Ukraine is winning so hard how come there's Ukrainians fleeing and blocking Africans from trains in Ukraine, and not Russians fleeing Russia and blocking Africans from trains in Russia?

if Ukraine is winning how come they need to stop men 18-60 from leaving? How come Russia isn't stopping men 18-60 from leaving?

If Ukraine is winning how come they're handing out guns to random people like Hitler's Volkstrumm? Did Soviets hand out guns to random people in WW2? How come Russian Army isn't handing out guns to random Russians?

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## thetutle

CrazyZ said:


> Don't get obsessed with casualty figures. All that matters in the end is the strategic outcome. Iraq and Afghanistan were strategic failures for the USA. Afghanistan is controlled by the Taliban who cares about the kill ratio. Israel today is fighting over less territory after every conflict.



True, everyone forgets the Russian casualty rate fighting against Germany. All people will remember is Russian troops in Berlin. 

Russia lost 30 milion people to the germans. Germany lost maybe 3 million to the Russians.

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## Beny Karachun

CrazyZ said:


> Don't get obsessed with casualty figures. All that matters in the end is the strategic outcome. Iraq and Afghanistan were strategic failures for the USA. Afghanistan is controlled by the Taliban who cares about the kill ratio. Israel today is fighting over less territory after every conflict.


Casualty figures are the most important, because they decide what the outcome is going to be. 
Now, I know that the outcome is Russian failure. 

What do you mean fighter over less territory?


----------



## thetutle

FairAndUnbiased said:


> simple questions:
> 
> if Ukraine was winning so hard how come there's Ukrainians fleeing and blocking Africans from trains in Ukraine, and not Russians fleeing Russia and blocking Africans from trains in Russia?
> 
> if Ukraine is winning how come they need to stop men 18-60 from leaving? How come Russia isn't stopping men 18-60 from leaving?



A very good point. Its obvious to al that Ukraine is getting its ares kicked. Butnnoone expected anything different. The only issue is what cost can be imposed on Russia.


----------



## pakpride00090

thetutle said:


> True, everyone forgets the Russian casualty rate fighting against Germany. All people will remember is Russian troops in Berlin.
> 
> Russia lost 30 milion people to the germans. Germany lost maybe 3 million to the Russians.



Russian wars are mostly like that... Very shitty beginnings with high casualty rates but they do win in the end.

WW2 and chechan wars are good examples of it.

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## Khanate

Beny Karachun said:


> Israel lost 121 men, 2 helicopters, 5 tanks in 33 days




All this to Hezbollah 😆




Beny Karachun said:


> Train was full, not everything is revolved around Africans




Train didn't have any place for black people

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## FairAndUnbiased

thetutle said:


> True, everyone forgets the Russian casualty rate fighting against Germany. All people will remember is Russian troops in Berlin.
> 
> Russia lost 30 milion people to the germans. Germany lost maybe 3 million to the Russians.


Germany shot civilians and people who surrendered. Well all of Germany surrendered but Russians allowed them to live. This was mercy on part of Russia, not a strength of Germany.

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## arjunk

Invicta said:


> Just picked these two EF2000 returning from Poland.


If their transponders are on then they are flying purely for optics.

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## Khanate

*Complicated...*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497656961382375433

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497722678769291267

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## pakpride00090

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Germany shot civilians and people who surrendered. Well all of Germany surrendered but Russians allowed them to live. This was mercy on part of Russia, not a strength of Germany.



Yup...

Imagine if they went full chengiz khan on them. Russian mercy despite the amount of russians germany killed is truly a remarkable sight to see.

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## Type59

Beny Karachun said:


> View attachment 819197
> 
> View attachment 819198
> 
> View attachment 819199
> 
> 
> 
> There's no need to, seems like Ukraine is doing well enough alone.



Tanks were lost. US had to bomb own tank. Many vehicles were destroyed or damage during initial invasion. The US prevailed, but spent many years fighting an insurgency that kept on returning despite defeats.

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## FairAndUnbiased

thetutle said:


> A very good point. Its obvious to al that Ukraine is getting its ares kicked. Butnnoone expected anything different. The only issue is what cost can be imposed on Russia.


Turns out the cost is not much because if you're using video game screenshots, Syrian war photos, Iraq photos, photos from 2014, etc. then it means you don't have real photos.

Chinese know well that verbal claims are worth jack shit, as demonstrated by our conflicts with India. That's why Chinese document everything and release evidence whenever India makes a verbal claim.

Currently I see Ukraine as behaving even worse than India. With multiple proven lies, I now doubt every word they say. This is not any animosity towards India or Ukraine, it is just saying that Indian media is proven to be not reliable, so you can imagine how unreliable Ukrainian media is right now.

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## pakpride00090

Khanate said:


> *Complicated...*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497656961382375433
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497722678769291267



That is how it has always been but muslims are too busy fighting each other for trivial reasons like race/ethnic group/language/sect/culture and etc.

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## Suriya

“Kyiv now fights for the future of the whole human being,” says Ukraine’s biggest rock star​

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## Beny Karachun

FairAndUnbiased said:


> simple questions:
> 
> if Ukraine is winning so hard how come there's Ukrainians fleeing and blocking Africans from trains in Ukraine, and not Russians fleeing Russia and blocking Africans from trains in Russia?
> 
> if Ukraine is winning how come they need to stop men 18-60 from leaving? How come Russia isn't stopping men 18-60 from leaving?
> 
> If Ukraine is winning how come they're handing out guns to random people like Hitler's Volkstrumm? Did Soviets hand out guns to random people in WW2? How come Russian Army isn't handing out guns to random Russians?


One could say the same about Afghanistan and the US/USSR, no one fled the US or USSR in those war, yet it's undisputed that they lost those wars.


So basically, simple answers:
Because civilians aren't combatants, and should leave the area before they become collateral damage. 
Russians are not fleeing Russia, but Russian objective is to change Ukrainian government and capture Kiev. They will not achieve this.
"Blocking Africans" has no relevance, and isn't what you think it is anyways.

Russia calls for its reserves, also, DNR and LNR forbid men from ages 18-55 to leave the territory as well.

Because Ukraine needs every man available to fight off the Russians. And they seem to be succeeding at that.


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## _Nabil_

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Turns out the cost is not much because if you're using video game screenshots, Syrian war photos, Iraq photos, photos from 2014, etc. then it means you don't have real photos.
> 
> Chinese know well that verbal claims are worth jack shit, as demonstrated by our conflicts with India. That's why Chinese document everything and release evidence whenever India makes a verbal claim.
> 
> Currently I see Ukraine as behaving even worse than India. With multiple proven lies, I now doubt every word they say. This is not any animosity towards India or Ukraine, it is just saying that Indian media is proven to be not reliable, so you can imagine how unreliable Ukrainian media is right now.


In general, in any war, the one barking the most is the helpless one and loosing on ground

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## thetutle

pakpride00090 said:


> Yup...
> 
> Imagine if they went full chengiz khan on them. Russian mercy despite the amount of russians germany killed is truly a remarkable sight to see.


No the Russians thought it was better to use the Germans as cheap labour for 70 years. Which they did.

The worst Russian crimes were against their own people and the Ukrainians which they genocided with an imposed famine. and killed 20 million. 

Of course the worst Soviet war criminals would all qualify for Israeli citizenship today. not relevant but a side note.

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## Beny Karachun

Khanate said:


> All this to Hezbollah 😆


Which paid in 750 men, Lebanese infrastructure, and Lebanese dignity.


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## CrazyZ

thetutle said:


> True, everyone forgets the Russian casualty rate fighting against Germany. All people will remember is Russian troops in Berlin.
> 
> Russia lost 30 milion people to the germans. Germany lost maybe 3 million to the Russians.


The Russians lost a lot but so did the Germans....its way higher then 3 million. The 75% German military casualties were on the eastern front. I read the memoirs of German generals from WW2. The German High Command knew they lost the war after the USSR's Operation Bagration that resulted in massive losses to the German Army and the strategic loss of oil fields in Romania. The Russians probably lost a zillion soldiers but they broke the German army's back at took their oil fields. No oil no blitzkrieg....game over for Germany. All that matters is the strategic outcome.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Beny Karachun said:


> One could say the same about Afghanistan and the US/USSR, no one fled the US or USSR in those war, yet it's undisputed that they lost those wars.
> 
> 
> So basically, simple answers:
> Because civilians aren't combatants, and should leave the area before they become collateral damage.
> Russians are not fleeing Russia, but Russian objective is to change Ukrainian government and capture Kiev. They will not achieve this.
> "Blocking Africans" has no relevance, and isn't what you think it is anyways.
> 
> Russia calls for its reserves, also, DNR and LNR forbid men from ages 18-55 to leave the territory as well.
> 
> Because Ukraine needs every man available to fight off the Russians. And they seem to be succeeding at that.


how do you know they're succeeding? Because they verbally say so and release some grainy photos of destroyed vehicles that could very well be Ukrainian?

if they're succeeding how come they have released multiple fake photos already? why do they need to release fake photos if they have real photos? The answer is clearly that they don't have real photos.

if they're succeeding how come there's artillery falling on Kiev on merely day 3?

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## Khanate

*Interesting timing... (Off-topic)*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497581481065328642

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## thetutle

CrazyZ said:


> The Russians lost a lot but so did the Germans....its way higher then 3 million. The 75% German military casualties were on the eastern front.



ok fair, they lost 4.5 million.


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## CrazyZ

thetutle said:


> ok fair, they lost 4.5 million.


Don't forget all the death destruction rape loot and pillage when the red army got to German cities. They had payback on their minds.

Reactions: Angry Angry:
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## khansaheeb

What a human tragedy:-









Ukraine conflict: Children on their own, parents stay behind


Mothers and grandmothers lead their children into the unknown as men aged 18 - 60 must stay behind.



www.bbc.com





Ukraine conflict: Children on their own, parents stay behind​Published9 hours ago
Share
Related Topics

Ukraine crisis





Image caption,
A long queue lies behind - and a long and uncertain wait to cross into the unknown
*Tens of thousands of Ukrainians are pouring towards neighbouring countries to flee the Russian invasion.*
In the three days since the invasion began, more than 115,000 have crossed into Poland alone - some travelling for more than two days, others joining queues 15km (10 miles) long at border points.
Those fleeing are mostly women and children, as all Ukrainian men aged 18 to 60 are being told to stay and fight - in some cases separated from their families. BBC correspondents met them at the borders.








Image caption,
Ana had to leave her husband behind in Ukraine
24-hour queue​*By Lucy Williamson, Palanca, Moldova*
Seen from the Moldovan border, Ukraine is a nation of women. Mothers and grandmothers, wheeling suitcases to safety, leading their children into the unknown.
Ana arrived at the Palanca crossing point after more than 24 hours waiting in a queue on the Ukrainian side of the border - her little yellow car stuffed with bags, her six-year-old granddaughter singing to herself in the backseat.
Ana and her stepdaughter had driven straight from the southern city of Odesa - some 50km away and now a key target for Russia in the war.
But Ana's calm smiling manner crumbled as soon as she began to speak. Breaking down in tears, she described how she'd had to leave her husband behind to defend their country.
"I hope the West will help us get out of this terrible situation, because right now we're facing the Russian aggressor alone."
Around her, local volunteers from Moldova's towns and villages waited to offer lifts to Ukrainians arriving here on foot.
But, like Ana, many who turn up here have thought only of escaping Ukraine, and have little idea of what happens now - for their country or themselves.




Image caption,
Tea, coffee and guidance at makeshift stalls at the Ukraine-Moldova border




No men allowed​*By Mark Lowen, Przemysl, Poland*
The overnight train from Kyiv, via Lviv, pulled in carrying Europe's new refugees. They arrived at the 19th Century train station at Przemysl, which is now a modern-day reception centre.




Image caption,
Kateryna Leontieva's journey was long - her return to Ukraine could be a lot longer
"It took us 52 hours to get here," said Kateryna Leontieva, who had travelled from Kharkiv with her teenage daughter. Clutching their Ukrainian passports, and carrying a rucksack of belongings, they stepped out into eastern Poland - and safety.
When I asked how it felt to be here, Kateryna welled up with emotion. "I don't know yet - the tears are just coming," she said. "I didn't feel anything - but now I'm starting to realise. I hope it's just a short trip and we'll be back soon."
In the waiting room, we found Irene and her two young children. Her husband had remained in Lviv to defend their homeland.
"Only women and children are allowed to go," she said. "The men want to stay, fight, and give blood. They are heroes."
How did she feel about her husband staying behind, I asked?
"I'm afraid," she replied, her voice beginning to break. "We believe everything will be alright. And we're praying for them."




Image caption,
Women say they are afraid, but proud their men are staying behind to fight




Dropping off the kids​*By Nick Thorpe, Beregsurany, Hungary*
Victoria came from Irshava, in western Ukraine.
"I came to Hungary with my two daughters. I'm leaving them with relatives who are waiting here at the border and returning to my husband," she says amidst nervous laughter.
Are you afraid to go back?
"Honestly, I'm not afraid. I only worry about my daughters, that's all. I see that things are not good for Ukraine, but I cannot leave my country. We have to be patriotic."
And her defiance continues.
"My husband is ready if necessary to protect Ukraine for the future, for our children. I don't want it but we must save our country.
"He will go to the military office because he has received a letter."








Parents stayed behind​*By Rob Cameron, Vysne Nemecke, Slovakia*
In the tiny village of Velke Slamence, the latest gaggle of refugees walked briskly down the road, eyes searching anxiously for a familiar face, followed by a shout of recognition, a hug, a kiss.
For a fleeting moment the scene felt joyful - light-hearted almost. But then it was punctured by a sharp, piercing cry. A woman's face crumpled in anguish before she was led swiftly away.
"Uzhhorod," said a teenage girl, when I asked where she was from, a city of 100,000 just across the border. Before World War Two that city was part of Czechoslovakia. There are bonds of kinship and solidarity in these plains beneath the Carpathian Mountains that go back a century.
That was almost all she would tell me. She clutched the hand of her little brother, a shy boy. Their parents had stayed behind. It was unclear who they were waiting for.




Image caption,
The men are the ones waiting for the displaced Ukrainians to come
Tanya left Kyiv 20 years ago, and now lives with her partner in Stuttgart. But here she was, standing by the roadside, waiting to rescue an old friend as their home city was engulfed by chaos.
Surveying the scene was villager Jan Toth.
"They're not letting men leave, Putin or Zelensky," he told me. "It's a catastrophe."

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## _Nabil_

Beny Karachun said:


> Which paid in 750 men, Lebanese infrastructure, and Lebanese dignity.


750 happy family their children performed Shahada

Infrastructure been rebuilded by Qatar and Iran

Dignity, loolz, do you have this word in your vocabulary? do you want me to refresh your memory with pictures of your "mighty" soldiers crying, the cemetery of Merkavas, your soldiers wounded in their back, running away like dogs, tail between their legs??

you are so pathetic 🤣😂

Reactions: Like Like:
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## tower9

pakpride00090 said:


> Imagine Chinese opening a front and start a war to get hold of Taiwan.... Phir tou maza hi maza ... WW3 here we come.


That won’t happen. China is disciplined and calculating and focused on the end game. It has immense patience. Taking Taiwan now does not help and will only hurt China’s end game.

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## jamahir

Barack Obomba : "Russia’s attack is a violation of international law and the basic principles of human decency”.  This is the same chap who attacked Libya 11 years ago with a coalition of 40+ state militaries and thousands of Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood non-state actors and parallely attacked Syria the same year with thousands of the same non-state actors. American presidents are funny people.

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## Beny Karachun

FairAndUnbiased said:


> how do you know they're succeeding? Because they verbally say so and release some grainy photos of destroyed vehicles that could very well be Ukrainian?
> 
> if they're succeeding how come they have released multiple fake photos already? why do they need to release fake photos if they have real photos? The answer is clearly that they don't have real photos.
> 
> if they're succeeding how come there's artillery falling on Kiev on merely day 3?


Some? Grainy?


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t24ydh


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t1zl4i


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t1zl42


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t204u8


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t26kdl


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t1ukad



Tons of more footage

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## Khanate

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497297532153696257



Beny Karachun said:


> Which paid in 750 men, Lebanese infrastructure, and Lebanese dignity.




Those men fought occupier and invaders!

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## Beny Karachun

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t226z2


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t1xn88
(sorry, Javelin didn't see your little hat)


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t22try


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t1ouys


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t1s79g


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t1xky6

Those are all Russian destroyed forces

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## _Nabil_

tower9 said:


> That won’t happen. China is disciplined and calculating and focused on the end game. It has immense patience. Taking Taiwan now does not help and will only hurt China’s end game.


There no way Taiwan will come back to China peacefully, even in 100 years and China being very prosperous.

The more time they stay away the more harder do bring them back.

Maybe after all, China don't really need Taiwan back


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## Beny Karachun

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t1rj63


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t1szsv


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t1taxv


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t1sawp

RIP Russians lol



Khanate said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497297532153696257
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those men fought occupier!


Difference is, Russia started the war on Ukraine, while Gaza started the war on Israel.

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## gambit

beijingwalker said:


> *Only fools believe this claim*, you don't believe it yourself, do you? Russia has enough fire power to wipe out villages, cities and towns, but this fight is more like a coup scale of fighting ,not a full scale war.


And believing the Russian narrative make you wise? Please...









Why the Russians Are Struggling | National Review


The last three days of combat should put a serious dent in the reputation of this new Russian army.




www.nationalreview.com





Now, I know that the National Review is a 'right wing rag', but there is no harm in reading other opinions, even if those opinions do not agree with yours. So let us see...

As the sun goes down in Kyiv, the city has not yet fallen to the Russians. *This is unquestionably a defeat for Vladimir Putin.*​​Unquestionably is a bit hyperbolic and premature.

It’s important to not get carried away here: The Kremlin is still favored to win this fight. But the last three days of combat should put a serious dent in the reputation of this new Russian army. We should, however, try to understand _why_ the Russians are struggling. *First, the Russian army’s recent structural reforms do not appear to have been sufficient to the task at hand. Second, at the tactical and operational level, the Russians are failing to get the most out of their manpower and materiel advantage.*​
Now those are interesting points.

Russia currently fields an active-duty military of just under 1 million men. Of this force, approximately 260,000 are conscripts and 410,000 are contract soldiers (_kontraktniki_). *The shortened 12-month conscript term provides at most five months of utilization time for these servicemen. Conscripts remain about a quarter of the force even in elite commando (spetsnaz) units.*​
Yikes...!!!

Conscription term of at least 24 months is standard for armies that require the conscription model, and 24 months is already problematic in terms of unit capabilities, efficiency, training, retention, and overall institutional memory. So using the infantryman as example, in that 24 months, the first three months are for boot camp where the recruit learns to follow basic military instructions and discipline. Then comes Advanced Individual Training (AIT), or the Russian version of AIT, where the new infantryman learns the basic skills of soldiering and particular specialty, whatever that might be, and that time range 4 to 52 weeks, but we can use 8-12 weeks for our example. So now up 5-6 months passed into our 24 months term.

Now is the beginning of a series of issues/problems. The army needs people in all fields. That means some conscripts must be in specialties that runs up to those 52 weeks of training. In those specialties, now 14 to 16 months passed into that 24 months conscription term. That leave the receiving unit only 6 months to use the new soldier. Not only that, because the new soldier know that he is obligated to only two yrs and that he has only 12 or 6 months to go, all he has to do is the minimum job requirement, not expecting to be sent to war, so he could return to his old job, family, and girlfriend. Not much motivation, here.

Yes, the Russians have indeed made efforts to professionalize the officer and the NCO corps. Of course, *non-commissioned officers (NCOs) have historically been a weakness of the Russian system.*​
And of the Chinese system.

*A high proportion of the soldiers wearing NCO stripes in the modern Russian army are little more than senior conscripts near the end of their term of service.* In recent years, the Russians have established a dedicated NCO academy and cut the number of officers in the army in an effort to put more resources into improving the NCO corps, but the changes have not been enough to solve the army’s leadership deficit.​
In the US military, the lowest NCO is the E-4 grade, already 3 yrs of service and usually willing to reenlist, then many chose to make the military a career. This is the US military's greatest strength: the institutional memory of its NCO corps and is passed down to the next generation and so on.

...the Russians — possibly out of hubris — do not appear to have prepared the logistical train necessary to keep some of their units in action for an extended period of time. Multiple videos have emerged of Russian columns out of gas and stuck on Ukrainian roads.​​In combat, friction is what makes “even the simplest thing difficult.” So we shouldn’t be surprised that some Russian units are running low on supplies. *What’s surprising is the scale of the Russians’ apparent logistical problems.*​​There is a strange, counterintuitive law of modern war that says for men to win in a fight against steel and heavy weapons, you must _close_ with the enemy. A corollary to this law is that, if both sides are equipped in a similar manner — in this case, mechanized infantry and tanks — the side that is *willing to dismount, get out of its infantry fighting vehicles*, and serve as a relatively exposed infantry screen to the armor, is going to have a tremendous tactical advantage.​​Mechanized infantry must be willing to, on a moments notice, receive the order to dismount, leave the perceived safety of an infantry-fighting vehicle, and serve as a screen for the armor.​​*But by all accounts, the Russians appear to be “noticeably reluctant” to dismount and close with the Ukrainian defenders.* We should be careful to not paint with too broad of a brush here. There are examples of Russian troops performing well in the fierce combat of the last three days. But there is clearly a pattern developing.​​When at least 1/4 of your unit are conscripts with their eyes on their exit time, of course, with their limited training and little self motivation, why should they leave the relative safety of their armored vehicles?

It maybe premature for Mark Antonio Wright, a former Marine, to put forth such a depressing analysis of the Russian army's performance in Ukraine, but the points he raised are legitimate. Could what Wright laid out be the underlying reasons on why Russia did not take as much of Ukraine as Putin wanted? Plus, not counting on the motivation and resilience of the Ukrainians?

For the PDF Chinese who are cheering for Russia. Despite the shiny toys and precise marching PLA troops done so impressively, the PLA's institutions are mostly modeled after the Soviet/Russian model. Once PLA troops land on Taiwan, they do not have a stable exit path the way the Russian army does on land. Better start making more of 'Wolf Wanker' movies.

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## tower9

_Nabil_ said:


> There no way Taiwan will come back to China peacefully, even in 100 years and China being very prosperous.
> 
> The more time they stay away the more harder do bring them back.
> 
> Maybe after all, China don't really need Taiwan back


China doesn’t need Taiwan back but it wants Taiwan back because it considers it a part of the Chinese homeland. China’s end game is to become the most powerful and advanced country on earth, taking Taiwan right now would be a stupid distraction. That issue will easily be solved when China reaches its goal.

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## Beny Karachun

tower9 said:


> China doesn’t need Taiwan back but it wants Taiwan back because it considers it a part of the Chinese homeland. China’s end game is to become the most powerful and advanced country on earth, taking Taiwan right now would be a stupid distraction. That issue will easily be solved when China reaches its goal.


BS, China wants Taiwan because it wants the semi-conductor business.


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## tower9

Beny Karachun said:


> BS, China wants Taiwan because it wants the semi-conductor business.


Then why doesn’t it attack already?

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## thetutle

khansaheeb said:


> Image caption,
> A long queue lies behind - and a long and uncertain wait to cross into the unknown
> *Tens of thousands of Ukrainians are pouring towards neighbouring countries to flee the Russian invasion.*



In the middle of the picture, a man, perhaps not of Ukrainian heritage, white shoes, lived in Ukraine, and now fist in line to leave, with the women and children. Actually, in front of the women and children. hmmmm


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## khansaheeb

tower9 said:


> That won’t happen. China is disciplined and calculating and focused on the end game. It has immense patience. Taking Taiwan now does not help and will only hurt China’s end game.


If China heads for Taiwan then Israel is finished, once and for all. The Western alliances don't have the capacity to fight on 3 major fronts.


----------



## Khanate

*More racism... (White supremacy)*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497535170450231301



Beny Karachun said:


> Difference is, Russia started the war on Ukraine, while Gaza started the war on Israel.




Difference is, Sheba farm is not Israeli territory.

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## leviathan

Beny Karachun said:


> BS, China wants Taiwan because it wants the semi-conductor business.


lol waht a fool. Taiwan got nothing. the semi-conductor technology belong to WEST!


----------



## thetutle

khansaheeb said:


> If China heads for Taiwan then Israel is finished, once and for all. The Western alliances don't have the capacity to fight on 3 major fronts.



Dont worry, Israel will be defended by both Russia and the US and France and UK.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Beny Karachun

khansaheeb said:


> If China heads for Taiwan then Israel is finished, once and for all. The Western alliances don't have the capacity to fight on 3 major fronts.


When will you fools understand you'll never be able to defeat us?
How many times do we need to bash your skulls in?

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## khansaheeb

thetutle said:


> Dont worry, Israel will be defended by both Russia and the US and France and UK.


Just like they are defending the Ukraine?

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## FairAndUnbiased

Beny Karachun said:


> BS, China wants Taiwan because it wants the semi-conductor business.


Taiwan's semiconductor business is useless for China since it is 100% supplied by western equipment and chemicals, which will be useless in a war. Taiwan has nothing China would need except the geography so that makes it... simpler than Ukraine.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Beny Karachun said:


> When will you fools understand you'll never be able to defeat us?
> How many times do we need to bash your skulls in?



Israel has already fallen and you know this much yourself Just like Taiwan and it falling physically is just a formality.. If any serious push comes it is over.. This is not a Kung-fu movie but a simple mathematical reality..

You can't even defeat Hezbollah and Hamas and you talking about being undefeated


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## Suriya



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## Beny Karachun

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Taiwan's semiconductor business is useless for China since it is 100% supplied by western equipment and chemicals, which will be useless in a war. Taiwan has nothing China would need except the geography so that makes it... simpler than Ukraine.








That is the main reason.

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## thetutle

khansaheeb said:


> Just like they are defending the Ukraine?


They are defending Ukraine. This is why Ukraine is still here. 

But they mede Israel and they will defend it for now and into the future. But we dont know how long.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Beny Karachun said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t226z2
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t1xn88
> (sorry, Javelin didn't see your little hat)
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t22try
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t1ouys
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t1s79g
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t1xky6
> 
> Those are all Russian destroyed forces











r/CombatFootage - Kharkiv, looks like the midnight sun


2,616 votes and 124 comments so far on Reddit




www.reddit.com





This looks like winning to you?









r/CombatFootage - 🇺🇦 🇷🇺 Approximate map of the Russ-Ukrainian war as of today based on intelligence via Casus Bellii Intelligence. Highlighting an advance from southern front of the rapid expansion of Russian troops to connect the Donbas. Casus Belli


1,312 votes and 127 comments so far on Reddit




www.reddit.com





How about this? How come the front is moving closer to Kiev and not closer to the Russian border?


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## Beny Karachun

FairAndUnbiased said:


> r/CombatFootage - 🇺🇦 🇷🇺 Approximate map of the Russ-Ukrainian war as of today based on intelligence via Casus Bellii Intelligence. Highlighting an advance from southern front of the rapid expansion of Russian troops to connect the Donbas. Casus Belli
> 
> 
> 1,312 votes and 127 comments so far on Reddit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reddit.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about this? How come the front is moving closer to Kiev and not closer to the Russian border?


Loosing meaningless villages and empty land is worthless, Russia has failed to capture any major city.



FairAndUnbiased said:


> r/CombatFootage - Kharkiv, looks like the midnight sun
> 
> 
> 2,616 votes and 124 comments so far on Reddit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reddit.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This looks like winning to you?


Destroying a static fuel depot vs Ukraine destroying entire armored brigades, a bunch of helicopters and jets


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## Beny Karachun

thetutle said:


> It's good to be optimistic. But you know very well that the ideology that you support is a dead end.


Good will overcome evil.
That's why the terrorists that oppose us and liberty will fall. 

You could brainwash some Russians and Chinese to think they're fighting for something good but when they meet the battlefield they'll know the truth.
We will fight for liberty, our enemies will fight for their dictator.



thetutle said:


> You are, and just like South Africa make sure you destroy your nukes when they take over, I dont think Arabs can be trusted with such dangerous weapons.


Don't worry, if the time comes we will make sure not even one nuke remains in our arsenal.


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## FairAndUnbiased

Beny Karachun said:


> View attachment 819208
> 
> 
> That is the main reason.


and TSMC would cease to operate in a war. Do you know how businesses operate? They need suppliers. If China took Taiwan by force then nobody will sell supplies to upkeep those fabs.

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## gambit

Musk says Starlink active in Ukraine as Russian invasion disrupts internet


SpaceX billionaire Elon Musk said on Saturday that the company's Starlink satellite broadband service is available in Ukraine and SpaceX is sending more terminals to the country, whose internet has been disrupted due to the Russian invasion.




www.reuters.com





More and more info about the war will make it out and will be independent of Russia's interference. All you guys who are cheering for Russia? Better start your own 50 cent army.


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## Beny Karachun

FairAndUnbiased said:


> and TSMC would cease to operate in a war. Do you know how businesses operate? They need suppliers. If China took Taiwan by force then nobody will sell supplies to upkeep those fabs.


I am not saying China wants Taiwan to take TSMC (Although they might try to do that), I am saying that the goal of China is indeed as you say, to cease TSMC from operating


----------



## Clutch

Putin Is Waging a Halfway War and It’s Showing​A lot is being asked of 30K troops who are being placed in unenviable positions​Marko Marjanović 22 hours ago 3542  27






Putin wasn’t kidding when he said he was launching a “special military operation”. Relative to what the Russian military brought to the border this is not yet all-out war.
I would say about 30,000 Russian troops have crossed over into Ukraine so far. A small portion of the force assembled.

Moreover, the Russians are (so far) waging the war in a way that keeps civilian losses to a minimum and even trying to minimally disrupt civilian life.

*The Russian operation could have opened with* strikes against power plants and the electric grid (both bombed by US in Yugoslavia) that left civilians in shock and without power, and with* ballistic and cruise missile strikes on Ukrainian army barracks.*

Instead, the Russian enterprise is so far conducted in a way that limits not just Ukrainian civilian, but even Ukrainian military losses. *The Russians have barely used their artillery.

It’s as if so far Putin is trying to conduct less a war, and more a 1968-style policing action.*

Kiev’s approach has been just the opposite, to distribute weapons to civilians. To ask them to “make Molotov cocktails” and to film and publish Russian troop movements.
It’s a competition. *Kiev is trying to induct the populace into a people’s war and give Moscow the kind of war it does not want. And Moscow is doing everything it can from its side to not have that happen* but to instead wage a minimally disruptive regime-change.

Russia wants the populace passive, Ukraine wants it as mobilized as possible. Thus there is good reason for Russia to refrain from using all the firepower it has, but it has made the life of its troops more difficult.
This economy-of-force approach is actually typical of how Russia operates. It will try something limited and small-scale first then escalate into something bigger when that hits a wall and so on.
There are good reasons to do it the Russian way, but there is also good reason not to. Certainly on the negative side is that it means asking a lot of their troops.
The brazen helicopter assault on Gostromel Airport was the most dramatic example of this, but really all Russian troops that have been committed are being asked to do brazen stuff with not much cover.
Small units of 800 men are being told to drive along a road 50 kilometers into the enemy’s rear and to go around major cities.
It has been less Ogarkov and more Tukhachevsky. Less the long-range fires apocalypse of _non-contact warfare_ and more the _deep battle_ of columns racing for the rear and fighting fights that are very much contact, sometimes after driving into an ambush or running into Ukrainians head-on.
The troops themselves have done rather well actually, but of course there is a limit to how far 30K troops can go.




> * the Ukrainian military has led to losses, prisoners.*
> For example. Rosgvardia and OMON are going together with the military to “take Kiev”(!). Internal troops should follow the military AFTER the army destroys the Ukrainian army in a given sector. This did not happen. They just go ahead into Kiev blindly.
> The Ukrainian army will still be destroyed, but the Russian army is suffering unjustified losses that could have been avoided


Not bad for 30K troops and 48 hours — would have been further along if more of the assembled forces and fires were committed from the onset

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## FairAndUnbiased

Beny Karachun said:


> I am not saying China wants Taiwan to take TSMC (Although they might try to do that), I am saying that the goal of China is indeed as you say, to cease TSMC from operating


why? Then Samsung is on top, not SMIC. Semiconductors has nothing to do with the China-Taiwan issue. It goes back to 1930 when Taiwan wasn't even part of China yet.


----------



## Khanate

*Dan Cohen: NATO is an offensive alliance*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497673895364595716


----------



## tower9

Beny Karachun said:


> I am not saying China wants Taiwan to take TSMC (Although they might try to do that), I am saying that the goal of China is indeed as you say, to cease TSMC from operating


Then again, why not take it now? Because there is still a gap between the Taiwanese semiconductor industry and the mainland’s now whereas in five to ten years time, there won’t be. So why not take it now if China is in such a rush? 

Or are you talking out of your *** again based on complete propaganda?


----------



## srshkmr

khansaheeb said:


> If China heads for Taiwan then Israel is finished, once and for all. The Western alliances don't have the capacity to fight on 3 major fronts.


Who is going to fight Israel? Pakistan?


----------



## Xerxes22

Have to say, staying off PDF nd spending time on twitter these couple days to keep an eye on the war has been the worst thing I ever done. 

The level of lies and the dangerous levels of use of copium on twitter by NATO European cheerleaders has disgusted me like nothing I've ever seen before. I don't think any war in human history there has been so much lies and misinformation spread by one party about the real situation on the ground. No pictures, no evidence, only superficial claims. 

They think it's normal for an army to achieve total victory within 24 hrs. After the progress Russia made after day 1 they Went on thumping their chest how Russia was defeated, they have no will or morale or whatever shit that they were saying. 

OMG, goddamned Nazis, you are getting enveloped on all sides and Russians only used what? Around 65k TROOPS? 

These uneducated NATO cheerleaders were nowhere to be found, they were busy taking drugs when the Nazis attacked innocent Russian speaking civilians, when they were relentlessly bombing donbass. Oh wait, the people of east Ukraine are not WESTERN ENUF, just like the Syrians. 

These morons needs to be taught a lesson... I have no pity for Ukrainians. In fact I hope Ukraine ceases to exist and Russia just annexes the whole of Ukraine..

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## gambit

TSMC and other major semicon companies stopped shipping to Russia. Will China step in to replace? Or is talk the only support China can give to Russia?


----------



## Elvin



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## Beny Karachun

tower9 said:


> Then again, why not take it now? Because there is still a gap between the Taiwanese semiconductor industry and the mainland’s now whereas in five to ten years time, there won’t be. So why not take it now if China is in such a rush?
> 
> Or are you talking out of your *** again based on complete propaganda?


Because China has no chance against NATO currently.


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497810526436569092

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## FuturePAF

Is India about to undermine the SWIFT sanctions being placed on Russia by supporting a Russian-Chinese alternative system?

An article from 2019 that has just become more relevant today









China, Russia & India Push Forward on SWIFT Alternative


What initially began as a Russian initiative for an alternative method of sending financial messages is gaining traction among some of the world’s biggest economies.




finance.yahoo.com


----------



## Beny Karachun

Khanate said:


> *Dan Cohen: NATO is an offensive alliance*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497673895364595716


NATO is an offensive alliance? They must be retarded to think that way in Ukraine's context.


----------



## tower9

Beny Karachun said:


> Because China has no chance against NATO currently.


China can easily take Taiwan now.

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## Elvin




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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497812555519168515

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497812658158026753

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## Khanate

FuturePAF said:


> Is India about to undermine the SWIFT sanctions being placed on Russia by supporting a Russian-Chinese alternative system?
> 
> An article from 2019 that has just become more relevant today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China, Russia & India Push Forward on SWIFT Alternative
> 
> 
> What initially began as a Russian initiative for an alternative method of sending financial messages is gaining traction among some of the world’s biggest economies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> finance.yahoo.com




*Sanctions...*

China:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497750024041611266
India:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497162914586898475
US:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497259141513064461


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## gambit

tower9 said:


> China can easily take Taiwan now.


The Ukrainians seems to be excellent applicators of The People's War. Maybe the Taiwanese can as well.


----------



## Indian Libertarian

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497772049283969028
What are your thoughts on these strategic blunders?


----------



## Clutch

Texe Marrs - The Jewish Coup in Ukraine/Khazaria


Texe Marrs with Jeff Rense, July 21, 2014. REMOVED by YouTube on May 31, 2018 Topics: Malaysian Airlines MH17, Ukraine, 9/11, Vladimir Putin, Israel, Homosexuality, Russian Orthodox Church, Controlled Media, Genocidal Judaism, Rothschild Ban…




www.bitchute.com

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## Khanate

*Rakesh...*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497172818899144706
*BBC's Molotov coverage*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497654560156012548



Beny Karachun said:


> NATO is an offensive alliance? They must be retarded to think that way in Ukraine's context.



Cohen is speaking in the Russian context

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## FuturePAF

Indian Libertarian said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497772049283969028
> What are your thoughts on these strategic blunders?



Reminds me of a Hadith on the value of good Leadership as well as the power of willpower in a people to resist. 









Hadith on Leadership: The Muslim leader is a shield who defends them







www.abuaminaelias.com

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## Clutch

Indian Libertarian said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497772049283969028
> What are your thoughts on these strategic blunders?



Marco Rubio is a known retard from Florida... Lol. He is your source?.... The guy was a Trump lacky!!

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## tower9

gambit said:


> The Ukrainians seems to be excellent applicators of The People's War. Maybe the Taiwanese can as well.


No. Taiwanese are not fighters and it is a small island. Plus you are judging way too early about Ukraine, it’s literally day 3 and Russian tanks are rolling through their capital.

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## Beny Karachun

Khanate said:


> Cohen is speaking in the Russian context


It's the same context, NATO was formed due to the fear of getting conquered by Russia, and Russia just legitimized its existence

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## tower9

Beny Karachun said:


> Stupid Iranians, you will suffer an even worse fate than what the Russians are suffering now. That's what happens when you wage senseless wars with poor demoralized soldiers.
> 
> Look at this, there's more videos in the comments below
> 
> 
> 
> And then get hammered by NATO and the major non-NATO allies


No it wouldn’t, you are pretty ignorant about China’s capabilities and the vast advantages it has in east Asia.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497815688144171009

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## Indian Libertarian

Clutch said:


> Marco Rubio is a known retard from Florida... Lol. He is your source?.... The guy was a Trump lacky!!


Sure, but at the same time he’s the Vice Chairman in the Senate Intel Committee, wouldn’t you think that he’s received briefings? The Russian invasion has clearly not progressed as Putin wanted.

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## Beny Karachun

tower9 said:


> No. Taiwanese are not fighters and it is a small island. Plus you are judging way too early about Ukraine, it’s literally day 3 and Russian tanks are rolling through their capital.


No they don't roll in Kyiv. Also, getting near Kyiv isn't an achievement, it was only 100km away from Russian forces. 
Russia expected to capture Kyiv within two days.


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## tower9

Beny Karachun said:


> No they don't roll in Kyiv. Also, getting near Kyiv isn't an achievement, it was only 100km away from Russian forces.
> Russia expected to capture Kyiv within two days.


They are literally within miles of Kiev’s political organs. You’re delusional. I don’t support this war but these are facts.

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## Suriya

BREAKING: Russian troops and military vehicles are entering parts of Kharkiv, Ukraine's second-most populous city.

BREAKING: Google to demonetize Russian state media outlets and ban them from running ads

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## jamahir

Beny Karachun said:


> NATO is an offensive alliance? They must be retarded to think that way in Ukraine's context.



So what exact defense was NATO doing in 2011 when it arranged 40+ state militaries to invade Libya ?



gambit said:


> The Ukrainians seems to be excellent applicators of The People's War. Maybe the Taiwanese can as well.



A people's war is essentially what Libyans and Syrians are doing against the Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood criminals inserted by NATO there.



Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497815688144171009



I don't understand what exactly is the Ukranian armed forces defending. Some progressive ideology ? Opposition to NATO's global imperialism ? What ?

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## Khanate

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496897963901132817



Beny Karachun said:


> It's the same context, NATO was formed due to the fear of getting conquered by Russia, and Russia just legitimized its existence




No, that was Soviet Union

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## Indian Libertarian

Suriya said:


> BREAKING: Russian troops and military vehicles are entering parts of Kharkiv, Ukraine's second-most populous city.
> 
> BREAKING: Google to demonetize Russian state media outlets and ban them from running ads


Why do they keep entering cities without a proper siege? It just exposes them to Ukrainian ATGMs fired from buildings. Yesterday, I saw footage of Russian MRAPs just rolling through residential districts in Kiev.

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## Suriya

Taiwan said it will hit Russia with sanctions and called for an end to the attack on Ukraine, a nation that shares similar security worries

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497069206642249747

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## TheNoob

jamahir said:


> So what exact defense was NATO doing in 2011 when it arranged 40+ state militaries to invade Libya ?
> 
> 
> 
> A people's war is essentially what Libyans and Syrians are doing against the Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood criminals inserted by NATO there.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand what exactly are the Ukranian armed forces defending ? Some progressive ideology ? Opposition to NATO's global imperialism ? What ?



Their trying to buy their way through blood into the EU at this point. 
There is nothing for them to lose by staying neutral and it's just naive at this point to be played so hard by the UK and the US like this.

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## Khanate

Suriya said:


> BREAKING: Russian troops and military vehicles are entering parts of Kharkiv, Ukraine's second-most populous city.
> 
> BREAKING: Google to demonetize Russian state media outlets and ban them from running ads




Praying for the safety of Ukrainians in Kharkiv.

May Allah keep them safe.

War is hell!

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## Beny Karachun

tower9 said:


> They are literally within miles of Kiev’s political organs. You’re delusional. I don’t support this war but these are facts.


Who knew that driving in roads is easier than entering a huge 3 million men city (Although it's way less by now due to evacuation, but many stay to defend the city), defended by special forces, NLAWs, Stingers and Javelins?


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## TheNoob

Indian Libertarian said:


> Why do they keep entering cities without a proper siege? It just exposes them to Ukrainian ATGMs fired from buildings. Yesterday, I saw footage of Russian MRAPs just rolling through residential districts in Kiev.



I honestly believe it is the lack of resistance in those, 
pretty evident through the relaxed posture of the Russians in most of the videos. 

The fight the civies are taking is only in the media and limited to either kiev or other central cities. 
For east, there is no doubt that they had neutral support there to pass by so quickly.

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## tower9

Beny Karachun said:


> Who knew that driving in roads is easier than entering a huge 3 million men city (Although it's way less by now due to evacuation, but many stay to defend the city), defended by special forces, NLAWs, Stingers and Javelins?


We are in day THREE.


----------



## Clutch

Indian Libertarian said:


> Sure, but at the same time he’s the Vice Chairman in the Senate Intel Committee, wouldn’t you think that he’s received briefings? The Russian invasion has clearly not progressed as Putin wanted.




The Intel committee has been a gong show for a long time. I wouldn't give anything he spews as factual. As committee members they are barred from sharing any sensitive info. So these are probably rambling of his Anti-Russian stance... Stemming from his anti-Castro Cuba past...

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## Beny Karachun

Khanate said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496897963901132817
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, that was Soviet Union


This was already offered,
The Russians demanded to remove all forces from Eastern Europe and other stupid demands.

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## TheNoob

tower9 said:


> We are in day THREE.



Day 4 has started.
Hopefully, the world can feel insecure with the entire SWIFT system at this point being at the mercy of a few powers. 
There needs to be alternatives.

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## tower9

TheNoob said:


> Day 4 has started.
> Hopefully, the world can feel insecure with the entire SWIFT system at this point being at the mercy of a few powers.
> There needs to be alternatives.


The US is sabatoging it’s own dominance by using swift as a weapon

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## Beny Karachun

tower9 said:


> We are in day THREE.


Day four already.

Time is in Ukraine's side, Ukraine is aiming for guerilla warfare that will continue indefinitely, as long as Russian forces are in the country.


----------



## RescueRanger

Beny Karachun said:


> View attachment 819200
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Su-25 hit by MANPADS in the Kherson region Kherson - Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine Latest news on live map - liveuamap.com
> 
> 
> Su-25 hit by MANPADS in the Kherson region. Live Universal Awareness Map Liveuamap is a leading independent global news and information site dedicated to factual reporting of a variety of important topics including conflicts, human rights issues, protests, terrorism, weapons deployment, health...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> liveuamap.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Already available here


Gives 502 gateway error but thank you for the link.


----------



## jamahir

TheNoob said:


> Their trying to buy their way through blood into the EU at this point.
> There is nothing for them to lose by staying neutral and it's just naive at this point to be played so hard by the UK and the US like this.



They are being senseless.


----------



## tower9

Beny Karachun said:


> Day four already.
> 
> Time is in Ukraine's side, Ukraine is aiming for guerilla warfare that will continue indefinitely, as long as Russian forces are in the country.


I don’t discount that possibility but Russia is well on its way to topple Ukraine’s government


----------



## Beny Karachun

RescueRanger said:


> Gives 502 gateway error but thank you for the link.


Odd, might be blocked by your internet provider


----------



## Bengal71

RescueRanger said:


> I'm just rolling on the floor after looking at that morale patch...



Just wait for the Bollywood movie where Akshay Kumar fights the Russians and wins the heart of a Ukrainian woman and then they together shake their *** and dance and sing with a super hit song.

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## Beny Karachun

tower9 said:


> I don’t discount that possibility but Russia is well on its way to topple Ukraine’s government


A Russian planted government is worthless when all of the Ukrainian law enforcement is out there fighting Russians on the battlefield and will never serve Russia

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## RescueRanger

Suriya said:


> “Kyiv now fights for the future of the whole human being,” says Ukraine’s biggest rock star​

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## Khanate

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497819797064544258



Beny Karachun said:


> This was already offered,
> The Russians demanded to remove all forces from Eastern Europe and other stupid demands.




Russian wanted written guarantees and they never got any

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## RescueRanger

Beny Karachun said:


> Odd, might be blocked by your internet provider


I’m using a vpn, let me try on my mobile.


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## Beny Karachun

Khanate said:


> Russian wanted written guarantees and they never got any


Russia never settled for less. Anyways, Ukraine should be allowed to join NATO, Russia can't blackmail countries/invade them when they clearly don't want war.


----------



## Indian Libertarian

Beny Karachun said:


> This was already offered,
> The Russians demanded to remove all forces from Eastern Europe and other stupid demands.


Russia tacked on those demands after their initial request was denied. Pretty sure by then they had already planned to go forward with the invasion.


----------



## Trango Towers

Enigma SIG said:


> CIA funneling money for his campaign.


He is a jew...ofcourse he will become president



TheNoob said:


> This really rustles my jimmies.


That shows the white racism..
Poland said we will take every Ukrainian refugee but I guess not one from the wars the west starts

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## gambit

tower9 said:


> No. *Taiwanese are not fighters* and it is a small island. Plus you are judging way too early about Ukraine, it’s literally day 3 and Russian tanks are rolling through their capital.


One can say the same about Chinese men considering they are 'little emperors' all their lives. Your China have a cultural campaign to change effeminate men and to encourage masculine traits. Do you need that? 

Putin underestimated...

The intense Ukrainian identity, and not of Russian.​The combat flaws and inefficiencies of the Russian military.​The resistance capability of the Ukrainians.​The global public support for Ukraine.​The global political dislike for Russia.​​Underestimated.

Now, latest speculation is that Xi is beginning to reassess China's so-called 'support' for Russia from all those factors.

Airpower is important, but fighter jets do not hold ground. Do you know which sub category of airpower that hold ground? I doubt it.

It is the helo component of total airpower that hold ground. Even an Air Force guy like me figured that out. There are plenty of videos of Russian helos shot down. We do not know the exact quantity of Russian helos lost, meaning destroyed or too damaged to make missions, but already enough were lost that Putin is angry as to why it took so long to make Kyiv. The PLA and the ROCA are watching this war closely and it will be the PLA generals who will be sweating in front of Xi because if the US sends Taiwan thousands of Stingers for all those PLA helos and Javelins for all these PLA tanks, that invasion will be delayed and delayed and delayed until the PLA can figure something out. The invasion maybe successful, but if the occupation fail because the PLA cannot move troops as rapidly and flexibly like only the helo can, PLA troops will be slaughtered in Taiwanese streets.

This is a military oriented forum and you guys have consistently displayed disdain for knowledge and experience in favor of arrogant propaganda. I do not post to change your minds but to give the silent readers out there credible alternative views from Chinese distorted versions.

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## Trango Towers

Beny Karachun said:


> Russia never settled for less. Anyways, Ukraine should be allowed to join NATO, Russia can't blackmail countries/invade them when they clearly don't want war.


Hey are you nazis protesting in the 4th reach state of Israel about the Russian invading Ukraine...you are a joke. Pathetic

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## Khanate

Suriya said:


> “Kyiv now fights for the future of the whole human being,” says Ukraine’s biggest rock star​




😕


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497747535783411714

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## tower9

gambit said:


> One can say the same about Chinese men considering they are 'little emperors' all their lives. Your China have a cultural campaign to change effeminate men and to encourage masculine traits. Do you need that?
> 
> Putin underestimated...
> 
> The intense Ukrainian identity, and not of Russian.​The combat flaws and inefficiencies of the Russian military.​The resistance capability of the Ukrainians.​The global public support for Ukraine.​The global political dislike for Russia.​​Underestimated.
> 
> Now, latest speculation is that Xi is beginning to reassess China's so-called 'support' for Russia from all those factors.
> 
> Airpower is important, but fighter jets do not hold ground. Do you know which sub category of airpower that hold ground? I doubt it.
> 
> It is the helo component of total airpower that hold ground. Even an Air Force guy like me figured that out. There are plenty of videos of Russian helos shot down. We do not know the exact quantity of Russian helos lost, meaning destroyed or too damaged to make missions, but already enough were lost that Putin is angry as to why it took so long to make Kyiv. The PLA and the ROCA are watching this war closely and it will be the PLA generals who will be sweating in front of Xi because if the US sends Taiwan thousands of Javelins for all those PLA helos, that invasion will be delayed and delayed and delayed until the PLA can figure something out. The invasion maybe successful, but if the occupation fail because the PLA cannot move troops as rapidly and flexibly like only the helo can, PLA troops will be slaughtered in Taiwanese streets.
> 
> This is a military oriented forum and you guys have consistently displayed disdain for knowledge and experience in favor of arrogant propaganda. I do not post to change your minds but to give the silent readers out there credible alternative views from Chinese distorted versions.


You think that because you are ignorant about the many cultural differences between the different regions of China. The northern provinces have a much more martial culture while the southeastern provinces like Taiwan are much more pacifist culturally. Taiwan especially is very weak because it is deeply infiltrated by liberalism. They aren’t a match for China’s war machine.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497823776683315202

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497822405959503873

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## RescueRanger

Anyhooo back on topic:

Russians posing next to a captured Ukrainian bullet magnet:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497700134674649092

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## patero

FuturePAF said:


> Is India about to undermine the SWIFT sanctions being placed on Russia by supporting a Russian-Chinese alternative system?
> 
> An article from 2019 that has just become more relevant today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China, Russia & India Push Forward on SWIFT Alternative
> 
> 
> What initially began as a Russian initiative for an alternative method of sending financial messages is gaining traction among some of the world’s biggest economies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> finance.yahoo.com


In the long term Russia can work around SWIFT, its just going to be much more costly and difficult, Iran managed it. But its the Russian bank sanctions that are actually more damaging to the Russian economy, even those sanctions already actioned let alone further sanctions against the Russian central bank.

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## RescueRanger

Khanate said:


> 😕
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497747535783411714


The irony right.

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## Khanate

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497823854680412160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497822655155638275



Beny Karachun said:


> Ukraine should be allowed to join NATO




Hold that thought

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## khansaheeb

srshkmr said:


> Who is going to fight Israel? Pakistan?


If you went by the honor of your founding father Mahatma , then Indians would have had the courage to fight for change. But having said that we have fought the Israelis directly before and beat them. Our soldiers were based in Jordan for some time that's why Jordan has never been attacked by Israel.


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## Beny Karachun

tower9 said:


> You think that because you are ignorant about the many cultural differences between the different regions of China. The northern provinces have a much more martial culture while the southeastern provinces like Taiwan are much more pacifist culturally. Taiwan especially is very weak because it is deeply infiltrated by liberalism. They aren’t a match for China’s war machine.


You don't know war. War could bring the worst from what you would think of as strong men at first glance, and the best from what you would think of as weak men at first glance.


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## RescueRanger

This photograph captures a Tremendous explosion in Kharkov overnight:

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## Indian Libertarian

RescueRanger said:


> This photograph captures a Tremendous explosion in Kharkov overnight:
> View attachment 819219


Was it a fuel depot explosion?

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497825618871914501


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## Khanate

RescueRanger said:


> This photograph captures a Tremendous explosion in Kharkov overnight:
> View attachment 819219




Did they hit an ammunition depot?

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497671542104330248
The Ukrainians destroyed their own vehicle and then tweets celebrating it as a Russian military vehicle. 😂

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## tower9

Beny Karachun said:


> You don't know war. War could bring the worst from what you would think of as strong men at first glance, and the best from what you would think of as weak men at first glance.


Sure but you can say that about any potential war. In all assessments of the situation, China can easily take Taiwan today and that’s a fact.


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## RescueRanger

Khanate said:


> Did they hit an ammunition depot?


Either that or a gas pipeline

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## Cryptic_Mafia

gambit said:


> I asked if you have any doc that detailed an agreement between NATO and Russia that says NATO will not expand eastward. Looks like you have none.
> 
> On the other hand, there is a *WRITTEN* agreement where Russia promised Ukraine that Russia will not attack Ukraine, and that agreement was witnessed by countries, not individuals. Do you know what am talking about? Can you research and find it?


there is also aj agreement that west will defend Ukraine if attacked! i dont see child killer western army anywhere!

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## RescueRanger

Khanate said:


> Did they hit an ammunition depot?


Apparently it was an oil terminal:

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## Beny Karachun

tower9 said:


> Sure but you can say that about any potential war. In all assessments of the situation, China can easily take Taiwan today and that’s a fact.


Not if Taiwanese are willing to fight.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497825266634309636


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## RescueRanger

Indian Libertarian said:


> Was it a fuel depot explosion?


Now being confirmed as a strike on a Ukrainian oil depot.


----------



## Sayfullah

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497651073196122116
Hypocrite west

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## Indian Libertarian

RescueRanger said:


> Now being confirmed as a strike on a Ukrainian oil depot.


Yeah, there was a similar explosion near Kiev.


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## tower9

Beny Karachun said:


> Not if Taiwanese are willing to fight.


Even if they are willing to fight.

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## RescueRanger

The bombardment last night was absolutely intense:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497707414833049600
Another view:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497682266247634946

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## Khanate

RescueRanger said:


> Apparently it was an oil terminal:
> 
> View attachment 819222




The smoke makes it obvious. I couldn't tell from the other picture.

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## Indian Libertarian

Jf-17 block 3 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497651073196122116
> Hypocrite west


I wonder what Russia is going to do about the AT/MANPADS being sent over from the Polish border. If they don’t air strike the convoys transporting them, they’re screwed. Otherwise, they could destroy bridges across the Dnieper to cut off Ukrainian resupplies.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497827644800446465


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## 帅的一匹

Beny Karachun said:


> Not if Taiwanese are willing to fight.


Before they claim independence, Taiwanese are still Chinese.


----------



## Bengal71

Invicta said:


> Opinions change fast when body bags start arriving on your doorstep. We are all assuming the cost of this war, the actual cost of this was will only be known once it is over - if death toll on the Russian side increases questions will be asked and that will be the start.



Mate these things are relative. Russians lost 27 million people in the WWII fighting the Germans. Russians did not revolt because of the loss of life and money. There are certain things that are existential threat to national security and the Russian people can very well be aware of grave threat and why Putin is acting the way he is.

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## nufix

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Did this guy ever look at himself in a mirror? What's he talking about blond hair and blue eyes for?



Most Nazi pretenders nowadays are the very people the original Nazi would eliminate though lol.

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## RescueRanger

KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Ukrainian authorities say that Russian troops have entered Ukraine’s second-largest city of Kharkiv and fighting is underway in the streets.

-AP Wire

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## tower9

帅的一匹 said:


> Before they claim independence, Taiwanese are still Chinese.


Taiwan has never even declared independence and the vast majority prefer the status quo to independence.

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## Sayfullah

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497823298780114946


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## Khanate

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497671542104330248
> The Ukrainians destroyed their own vehicle and then tweets celebrating it as a Russian military vehicle. 😂
> 
> View attachment 819220




Those Azov neo-nazis are part of the Ukrainian national guard.

Fucking idiots.

Prime example of why you never bring such clowns into any professional fighting force.

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## Viet

Bengal71 said:


> Mate these things are relative. Russians lost 27 million people in the WWII fighting the Germans. Russians did not revolt because of the loss of life and money. There are certain things that are existential threat to national security and the Russian people can very well be aware of grave threat and why Putin is acting the way he is.


Ukraine is no threat to Russia.
Putin may land before a court as war criminal.
Ukraine will ask Russia to compensate the loss of lives and damages.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497828508260831232


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## RescueRanger

Russians patrolling Mariupol.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497722867252961280

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## Bengal71

Viet said:


> Ukraine is no threat to Russia.
> Putin may land before a court as war criminal.
> Ukraine will ask Russia to compensate the loss of lives and damages.



Which freaken court? Who will take Putin from Russia to a war crime tribunal?


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## Indian Libertarian

RescueRanger said:


> Russians patrolling Mariupol.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497722867252961280


They took Mariupol? If that’s true, they’ve connected the Eastern and Southern fronts.


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## RescueRanger

Indian Libertarian said:


> They took Mariupol? If that’s true, they’ve connected the Eastern and Southern fronts.


That’s what’s the Russian videos seem to be professing.

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## xuxu1457

Viet said:


> Ukraine is no threat to Russia.
> Putin may land before a court as war criminal.
> Ukraine will ask Russia to compensate the loss of lives and damages.


childish, If Mexico and Canada form a military alliance with Russia, the United States will certainly wage war.
big power needs to be surrounded by a buffer zone, or at least a neutral buffer zone.

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## Khanate

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497641177637695489

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## FairAndUnbiased

Beny Karachun said:


> Not if Taiwanese are willing to fight.


they lost already in 1949 in an even fight. Why do you think they'll win now when they're far weaker?


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## Indian Libertarian

Kashmiri Rebel said:


> Seems that Russians have taken the gloves off and have gone full throttle. An opportunity was provided to Zelensky for peace.


It’s shown in his later tweets.


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497831871220174849

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## Khanate

Bengal71 said:


> Which freaken court? Who will take Putin from Russia to a war crime tribunal?




Good point.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497646219459502084

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## RescueRanger

Coloums of Russian vehicles moving through Kharkiv


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497826677820379137
Ukrainian's running out of medical supplies:

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## Bengal71

Khanate said:


> Good point.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497646219459502084



There is only one rule in the world, might is right. Nothing will happen to Putin. But even before that it's an invasion; it does not automatically mean war crimes are being committed.

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## RescueRanger

Just one of the many properties that fell victim to bombardment last night:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497285215735238657

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## Khanate

*Cuba not coming slow... 😑*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497692407185518592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497693085458960390

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## Bengal71

QWECXZ said:


> I don't see how Stalingrad is a good example for this war because well, first of all Stalingrad is a Russian city and secondly, the Germans lacked proper technology and logistics to endure cold Russian winters in 1940s.
> 
> Anyway, why would Russians want a revolution? The only reason that Russian people may want a revolution would be for better economic conditions. But do you think the Russians would sell their country to the West for temporary improvement in their economic conditions? Do you think Russians, being one of the largest empires of history, do not have the vision to understand that sacrificing their national security will not lead to a better future for them?
> 
> Also, you are assuming that the problem is Putin. But this may very well not be true. Russians feel threatened by NATO's expansionist policies and they have felt humiliated for far too long after the dissolution of the Soviet Union. It's not like Putin didn't give diplomacy a chance. Putin could've done this back in 2014, but back then he hoped that the West would accept him as an equal and give Russia a share of power in global affairs without a need for military confrontation. The whole concept of tandemocracy in Russia was about cooperation with the West instead of confrontation. Instead, the West continued to disrespect him and interpreted his patience as weakness until this happened. Putin has made the decision of invading Ukraine fully aware of its political and economic consequences and the majority of Russians seem to agree with him. Hence, I do not see why a patriotic revolution is necessary and how it can change the situation for Ukraine or the West, if not make the situation worse.



I agree with everything you said. But Russians should have done it in 2014 itself.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497833575445585922

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## SSG_Commando

All because of trouble makers USA and UK. Who will make these blood thirsty mofos answerable?

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## gambit

Indian Libertarian said:


> I wonder what Russia is going to do about the AT/MANPADS being sent over from the Polish border. If they don’t air strike the convoys transporting them, they’re screwed. Otherwise, they could destroy bridges across the Dnieper to cut off Ukrainian resupplies.


Here is the legal deal...

Convention (V) respecting the Rights and Duties of Neutral Powers and Persons in Case of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907.

For now, we have Russia and Ukraine as belligerents. And Poland as a neutral power.

Article 1. The territory of neutral Powers is inviolable.​​This mean initially, no one can violate Poland's borders.

Art. 2. Belligerents are forbidden to move troops or convoys of either munitions of war or supplies across the territory of a neutral Power.​Art. 3. Belligerents are likewise forbidden to:​(a) Erect on the territory of a neutral Power a wireless telegraphy station or other apparatus forthe purpose of communicating with belligerent forces on land or sea;​(b) Use any installation of this kind established by them before the war on the territory of a neutral Power for purely military purposes, and which has not been opened for the service of public messages.​
This mean Russia and Ukraine are forbidden to use Polish territory for war purposes.

Art. 4. Corps of combatants cannot be formed nor recruiting agencies opened on the territory of a neutral Power to assist the belligerents.​Art. 5. A neutral Power must not allow any of the acts referred to in Articles 2 to 4 to occur on its territory. It is not called upon to punish acts in violation of its neutrality unless the said acts have been committed on its own territory.​
But now it becomes problematic, not just for Poland but for any country that claim neutrality but is *MATERIALLY* helping Ukraine such as transporting arms and/or sheltering Ukrainian fighters (not refugees).

Is Poland facilitating article 4 *IN FAVOR* of Ukraine? What is 'Corps of combatants' can also be extended to munitions because combatants and munitions usually accompany each other. If it is interpreted that Poland violated article 4, then Poland lost article 1 and Russia will be within legal bounds to attack Poland. But that would also trigger Article 5 of NATO charter.

A potential problem now is the integration of trade and financial systems. Could Russia argue that neutral powers who denied Russia access to the international financial system fall under Article 4? In other words, as those neutral powers actively use their native resources to assist Ukraine, they became belligerents on the side of Ukraine, thereby losing Article 1 protection.

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## TNT

gambit said:


> Musk says Starlink active in Ukraine as Russian invasion disrupts internet
> 
> 
> SpaceX billionaire Elon Musk said on Saturday that the company's Starlink satellite broadband service is available in Ukraine and SpaceX is sending more terminals to the country, whose internet has been disrupted due to the Russian invasion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More and more info about the war will make it out and will be independent of Russia's interference. All you guys who are cheering for Russia? Better start your own 50 cent army.



And where is ur 700 billion $ army? Too scared to set foot in Ukraine? Such a shame a $700 billion army only good enough to fight rogue militias with no proper army and chicken out when faced with a real army. 
Instead of jumping around here and chest thumping, u guys should be criticising ur clown leaders for not helping ukraine properly and leaving them to be slaughtered by Russia. Or atleast have some shame and sit in a corner.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497834293636354049

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## khansaheeb

Indian Libertarian said:


> Sure, but at the same time he’s the Vice Chairman in the Senate Intel Committee, wouldn’t you think that he’s received briefings? The Russian invasion has clearly not progressed as Putin wanted.


Seriously? Russians have reached the capital of 50 million strong country within 3 days and you don't call that progress? They have knocked out most of the Ukrainian air force, knocked out most of Ukrainian armored divisions, they are controlling the sky, the power stations, water and gas utilities are ready to be destroyed, there is a mass refugee crisis and Russians have more soldiers and equipment ready to send and you are saying Russian invasion hasn't progressed.

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## RescueRanger

This video shows that quite few people have evacuated from the city:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497795060078821378

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497825329498533891

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## Flight of falcon

Kashmiri Rebel said:


> Seems that Russians have taken the gloves off and have gone full throttle. An opportunity was provided to Zelensky for peace.




This Rubio guy is such a joker. He is reading the list as if he has the entire war plans made in his kitchen…. What an idiot. 

Seriously I think it will take at least two weeks to take Kiev. The idea is that the Russians want to install their puppet and they don’t want to destroy too much infrastructure or cause civilian casualties. 

They will take their time to destroy Ukrainian military leaving them no threat to them in the future.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497835136292843525

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497836006896279554

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497829088123359236

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## Indian Libertarian

gambit said:


> Here is the legal deal...
> 
> Convention (V) respecting the Rights and Duties of Neutral Powers and Persons in Case of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907.
> 
> For now, we have Russia and Ukraine as belligerents. And Poland as a neutral power.
> 
> Article 1. The territory of neutral Powers is inviolable.​​This mean initially, no one can violate Poland's borders.
> 
> Art. 2. Belligerents are forbidden to move troops or convoys of either munitions of war or supplies across the territory of a neutral Power.​Art. 3. Belligerents are likewise forbidden to:​(a) Erect on the territory of a neutral Power a wireless telegraphy station or other apparatus forthe purpose of communicating with belligerent forces on land or sea;​(b) Use any installation of this kind established by them before the war on the territory of a neutral Power for purely military purposes, and which has not been opened for the service of public messages.​
> This mean Russia and Ukraine are forbidden to use Polish territory for war purposes.
> 
> Art. 4. Corps of combatants cannot be formed nor recruiting agencies opened on the territory of a neutral Power to assist the belligerents.​Art. 5. A neutral Power must not allow any of the acts referred to in Articles 2 to 4 to occur on its territory. It is not called upon to punish acts in violation of its neutrality unless the said acts have been committed on its own territory.​
> But now it becomes problematic, not just for Poland but for any country that claim neutrality but is *MATERIALLY* helping Ukraine such as transporting arms and/or sheltering Ukrainian fighters (not refugees).
> 
> Is Poland facilitating article 4 *IN FAVOR* of Ukraine? What is 'Corps of combatants' can also be extended to munitions because combatants and munitions usually accompany each other. If it is interpreted that Poland violated article 4, then Poland lost article 1 and Russia will be within legal bounds to attack Poland. But that would also trigger Article 5 of NATO charter.
> 
> A potential problem now is the integration of trade and financial systems. Could Russia argue that neutral powers who denied Russia access to the international financial system fall under Article 4? In other words, as those neutral powers actively use their native resources to assist Ukraine, they became belligerents on the side of Ukraine, thereby losing Article 1 protection.


No, I understand that Russia wouldn’t directly strike Poland for facilitating arms transport. However, they really need to destroy the arms being transported within Ukraine to prevent further casualties.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497831028429307905

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497834983213338624

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## Enigma SIG

khansaheeb said:


> Seriously? Russians have reached the capital of 50 million strong country within 3 days and you don't call that progress? They have knocked out most of the Ukrainian air force, knocked out most of Ukrainian armored divisions, they are controlling the sky, the power stations, water and gas utilities are ready to be destroyed, there is a mass refugee crisis and Russians have more soldiers and equipment ready to send and you are saying Russian invasion hasn't progressed.


All things on the ground are pointing to a fall of Kiev. CIA rumor mills being the disinfo masters they are, keep churning out feel good stories and fake news to keep a semblance of sanity in the face of the Russian onslaught.

Funny how Zionists have turned onto Russia, keeping in mind Russia was the one who saved their asses back in WW2. Time to turn on the ovens again I guess.

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## Brainsucker

khansaheeb said:


> Doubt it , as Russia borders Ukraine and has no problems getting weapons and troops across.


He forget that Eastern Ukraine is full of Russian Ethnic Minorities. So it won't be Afghanistan for Russia, at least not at the east of the river. The western part of Ukraine is another matter.

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## Dalit

The shelter is already overcrowded: Ukrainian refugees are waiting in the Netherlands for a little warm welcome​Ukrainian refugees can board a plane to seek safety in the Netherlands. But they will encounter several problems, because the asylum shelters are already overcrowded.









De opvang is al overvol: Oekraïense vluchtelingen wacht in Nederland een weinig warm welkom


Oekraïense vluchtelingen kunnen op het vliegtuig stappen om in Nederland veiligheid te zoeken. Maar ze zullen meerdere problemen tegenkomen, want d...




www.trouw.nl





The reality on the ground.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497836540965363714

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497836822155640833

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497837102943322112

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## Khanate

*Hypocrisy.... *


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497509182433415173

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497723161261096969


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## LeGenD

Awan68 said:


> Lol, what are u on about?, clearly u knw next to nothing about warfare, Russia did not even employ 10% of its military resources in Ukarine and they are almost in the capital on the third day of the invasion and Ukarine was no cake walk, it is second largest country in Europe. It took the yanks almost a month to reach Baghdad that too with full on war mode and all of NATO at their backs. Real war is not call of duty, think before spewing nonsense.


Statistics do not tell how much of the military force is in good shape or can be diverted towards a theater of operations in view of financial situation and without compromising other security commitments.

NATO could also spare limited military force for Operation Iraqi Freedom in 2003: a total of 90,000 troops were involved in taking over Iraq on the ground in this war effort. Kuwait was the only country in the region which allowed NATO forces to invade Iraq from the ground. Baghdad is located in the center of Iraq and there are several Iraqi cities and locations which drew attention of the invading forces when coming from Kuwait. If Iran had allowed NATO forces to invade Iraq then it could be different story.

Russian forces invaded Ukraine from Belarus, Russian territory, and from the Black Sea on 24-02-22 and still feel the need to call in Chechen militias - this suggests that Russian forces are under stress even though Ukranian defenses are not much to write about. Russia have also deployed some of its experimental units in the war and made extensive use of both cruise missiles and ballistic missiles by now. Kyiv is not far from the border as well.

If Ukraine had good defenses...



FairAndUnbiased said:


> Yes they are being uncovered and it shows that they're absolutely dominant.
> 
> US took 3 weeks to enter Baghdad in 2003 after beating Iraq down for over 10 years in a 6v1. Russia already encircling Kiev in a 1v1 surprise attack. This is one of the fastest conquests in history.


See above.



Abid123 said:


> PDF members thinking that Russia has unveiled its "conventional capabilities"? How delusional can you get? Russia didn't even unleash 10% of it's power upon Ukraine LOL.... If it went all out the battle would be over in a day.


See above.

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## Enigma SIG

Kashmiri Rebel said:


> I have a feeling that Putin deliberately wanted the offensive to be slow just to give a feeling to Ukrainian and the West that they can stop Russia. He is a master planner, no way he will send his forces with T72 tanks. He will now go for a kill and will let the world know that he offered an olive branch to Zelensky which he rejected.


Funnily no major air operations. Or they're not being reported.


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## dBSPL

Dalit said:


> The shelter is already overcrowded: Ukrainian refugees are waiting in the Netherlands for a little warm welcome​Ukrainian refugees can board a plane to seek safety in the Netherlands. But they will encounter several problems, because the asylum shelters are already overcrowded.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> De opvang is al overvol: Oekraïense vluchtelingen wacht in Nederland een weinig warm welkom
> 
> 
> Oekraïense vluchtelingen kunnen op het vliegtuig stappen om in Nederland veiligheid te zoeken. Maar ze zullen meerdere problemen tegenkomen, want d...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.trouw.nl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reality on the ground.


It's definitely a sad situation. Yet more than 100,000 Ukrainians were admitted to European cities in the first 48 hours. Most of them crossed the borders on foot.

But just a few years ago, Europe was almost in a political crisis for 200,000 Syrian refugees. In some countries, civilians were chasing refugees with shotguns in their hands.

I am very sorry for the Ukrainian people. However, they should feel lucky that they will not experience the desperation that the Syrian people( or Afghans) have been left with.

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## Brainsucker

Suriya said:


> View attachment 819207


Now, look at what I see. United States need India more than India need them.

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## Indian Libertarian

dBSPL said:


> It's definitely a sad situation. Yet more than 100,000 Ukrainians were admitted to European cities in the first 48 hours. Most of them crossed the borders on foot.
> 
> But just a few years ago, Europe was almost in a political crisis for 200,000 Syrian refugees. In some countries, civilians were chasing refugees with shotguns in their hands.
> 
> I am very sorry for the Ukrainian people. However, they should feel lucky that they will not experience the desperation that the Syrian people( or Afghans) have been left with.


Yeah, the differential treatment is blatant. In Northern Poland they’re restricting the Syrian immigrants while in the South they’re allowing Ukrainians in with open arms,

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## AZMwi

Clutch said:


> I disagree. The new Nazism has actually made peace with Zionist and Judaism .... Case in point, the undersigned Ukrainian President Zelensky is a Jew and he has supported the Azov Nazi Battalion.
> 
> *Even Israel has been arming the Nazis.... Didnt you figure out why??
> 
> The Nazi new Jews are us.... Muslims. Wake up.*
> 
> Rights Groups Demand Israel Stop Arming neo-Nazis in Ukraine
> Human rights activists petition the court to cease Israeli arms exports to Ukraine since some of these weapons reach neo-Nazi elements in Ukraine’s security forces
> 
> John Brown
> Jul. 9, 2018
> 
> 
> group of more than 40 human rights activists have filed a petition with the High Court of Justice, demanding the cessation of Israeli arms exports to Ukraine.
> 
> They argue that these weapons serve forces that openly espouse a neo-Nazi ideology and cite evidence that the right-wing Azov militia, whose members are part of Ukraine’s armed forces, and are supported by the country’s ministry of internal affairs, is using these weapon
> 
> s.s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rights groups demand Israel stop arming neo-Nazis in Ukraine
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @thetutle said:


George W Bush's grandfather Prescott Bush financially supported the Nazi Regime during WW2. It's all part of a grand scheme which leads to the infamous zionist conference in switzerland in 1897. For zionists Islam is the real enemy.

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## Cryptic_Mafia

Enigma SIG said:


> All things on the ground are pointing to a fall of Kiev. CIA rumor mills being the disinfo masters they are, keep churning out feel good stories and fake news to keep a semblance of sanity in the face of the Russian onslaught.
> 
> Funny how Zionists have turned onto Russia, keeping in mind Russia was the one who saved their asses back in WW2. Time to turn on the ovens again I guess.


Ukrainian army is the new ANA.

west has moved into metaverse fighting wars i virtual space having fancy avatars and winning battles online!

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## LeGenD

Please stay on topic.

@Beny Karachun 
@Xerxes22

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## khansaheeb

Kashmiri Rebel said:


> Ukraine has placed some of their weaponry in residential areas. They cannot blow them. In a day or two you will see lots of cities falling.


The Israelis blew up residential complexes on the pretext that Palestinians had weapons inside then why can't the Russians?

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497564078897774598
It is not in accordance with diplomatic practices that Zelenskiy puts Turkey in a difficult situation by making something that does not actually exist as if it happened. No matter how bad the situation of his country is, trying to force another country into the war is not an innocent behavior and it makes us think of other things.

This is clearly stated with open-ended sentences and expressions on purpose. Even reading the comments in other languages, everyone thinks that Turkey has banned the passage of Russian ships to the Black Sea at the moment. Ukraine is a Western-directed country. Zelensky is also not a very reliable person. Therefore, initiatives that may affect Turkey's interests should be warned.

Turkey has had very dire experiences in this regard. The most important of these is the German conspiracy in 1914.

As Turkey moves away from NATO and develops strategic relations with Russia, it is necessary to be vigilant against all kinds of sabotage activities.

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## Metal 0-1



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## RescueRanger

NATO Assets in the sky above the region today:

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## Brainsucker

Indian Libertarian said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497772049283969028
> What are your thoughts on these strategic blunders?


But is it really like that? We must compare it with American conquest on Iraq in early 21st century. They need 3 weeks to reach Baghdad. And even with that, they didn't managed to fully captured Iraq. The war was going on longer than that. 

And that was Iraq, smaller, surrounded, even besieged by American long before the invasion began. Iraq couldn't even make their own tank and fighter Jet.

At the same time, Ukraine is big, they are not fully surrounded by Russian. They can make their own weapon. Their army is way stronger than Iraq at the time of American invasion.

But half of the Ukraine has the same ethnicity with Russia. Then I believe that Russian won't suffer a prolonged war like American in Iraq after the war is over. At least, as long as they avoid the western part of Ukraine.


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## dBSPL

RescueRanger said:


> NATO Assets in the sky above the region today:
> View attachment 819233
> 
> 
> View attachment 819234

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## TNT

Beny Karachun said:


> No they don't roll in Kyiv. Also, getting near Kyiv isn't an achievement, it was only 100km away from Russian forces.
> Russia expected to capture Kyiv within two days.



These dumb cheerleaders have no ground to stand on so come up with even dumber excuse like russia expected to take over kyiv in 6 hours and its been 3 days so russia lost lolz. 
Its also extremely ironic that zionist child killers are talking about human rights, u people are the worst scum to have ever existed on earth, the devil himself is way better than u ppl.

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


>


lol


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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497842354891415552


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## retaxis

Beny Karachun said:


> Hand enough people that are willing to fight enough ATGMs and MANPADs in urban territory and they will stop your invasion.
> 
> 
> What's your point? They don't want to live under Xijinping's dictatorship. It's a legitimate reason why Taiwan should be independent.


Israel is far more of a dictatorship than China is. China = high IQ therefore free thinking. Israel = low IQ therefore brainwashed. Typical low IQ jew who only knows how to blow his nose into his little hat lol

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497834154603741187

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497842264042835970

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497841794985304064


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## Genghis khan1



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## Enigma SIG

Kashmiri Rebel said:


> Ukraine has placed some of their weaponry in residential areas. They cannot blow them. In a day or two you will see lots of cities falling.


Unless Russia wants this to drag on that is.


----------



## RescueRanger

Whilst the BBC, CNN, FR24 and even AJN have been focusing on the plight of those on the Polish border, the slightly less photogenic evacuees caught up in this nightmare are forgotten:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497671233219047429

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## Indian Libertarian

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497834154603741187
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497842264042835970
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497841794985304064


They don’t seem very peaceful now


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## RescueRanger

You will NOT see this on the news, Ukrainians are blocking African evacuees from boarding trains to evacuate Ukrainian cities:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497654141350522880

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## Dalit

LOL

*India turns down US persuasion to vote against Russia*

WASHINGTON: India, a key ally in the US-led effort to contain China, has joined Beijing in abstaining from a UN Security Council (UNSC) vote demanding an immediate Russian withdrawal from Ukraine.

Diplomatic observers in Washington see this as a clear indication that India would not strain its relations with an old ally, Russia, to please its new partner, the United States.









India turns down US persuasion to vote against Russia


Abstains from UNSC vote demanding Russian pullback from Ukraine.



www.dawn.com


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## BHAN85

Beny Karachun said:


> Lol, Ukrainians aren't used, Russia attacked them, and they defend against it, Ukraine is now united against Russia and is currently f*cking them up.



United States of Pure Evil is the main culprit of this crisis, and Western states with NATO membership offeriments.

Your country will enjoy the same luck and western support than Ukraine if Israel dares to attack Iran someday.

But there is one difference: Russian loves Ukrainian people and they will take care of them, but no one in Middle East loves Israel. Israel/Iran war will be the last Israel war.


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## Indian Libertarian

RescueRanger said:


> Whilst the BBC, CNN, FR24 and even AJN have been focusing on the plight of those on the Polish border, the slightly less photogenic evacuees caught up in this nightmare are forgotten:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497671233219047429


Actually you see it on the news. Some Ukrainian nationalist went on BBC and talked about how Blond Haired Blue Eyed Ukrainians were witnessing violence. Something they thought belonged to only the Middle East.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497845613685354498


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## Indian Libertarian

Dalit said:


> LOL
> 
> *India turns down US persuasion to vote against Russia*
> 
> WASHINGTON: India, a key ally in the US-led effort to contain China, has joined Beijing in abstaining from a UN Security Council (UNSC) vote demanding an immediate Russian withdrawal from Ukraine.
> 
> Diplomatic observers in Washington see this as a clear indication that India would not strain its relations with an old ally, Russia, to please its new partner, the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India turns down US persuasion to vote against Russia
> 
> 
> Abstains from UNSC vote demanding Russian pullback from Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> www.dawn.com


What difference does it make for Ukraine whether India supports or opposes? We’re not even in the same continent. They’ve never backed India up on anything,


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## jamahir

Flight of falcon said:


> The idea is that the Russians want to install their puppet and they don’t want to destroy too much infrastructure or cause civilian casualties.



I wrote about a scene I saw on an Indian news channel yesterday. A Ukranian man made his protest heard by climbing atop a Russian tank and then sitting in front of it. Now if that had been an American tank the Americans would have shot him first, no questions asked. The Russians are being very decent.



Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497836822155640833



The Ukranians may be firing from that building. Look at this post from yesterday where the member posted about the Ukranian military setting up artillery in the ground of a kindergarten and school. One can't blame the Russians here.

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## RescueRanger

Indian Libertarian said:


> Actually you see it on the news. Some Ukrainian nationalist went on BBC and talked about how Blond Haired Blue Eyed Ukrainians were witnessing violence. Something they thought belonged to only the Middle East.



I am monitoring 5 international channels, not ONE has talked about the African, Turkish, Indian/Pakistani evacuees stranded in Ukraine.

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## Dalit

Indian Libertarian said:


> What difference does it make for Ukraine whether India supports or opposes? We’re not even in the same continent. They’ve never backed India up on anything,



The Americans are expecting full support from India. It hasn't come. That is a big deal.

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## RescueRanger

Fighting has intensified in Karhkiv:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497816526438776833


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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497847066734710784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497843118191923204

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497839062132183042

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497842793464619009

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497847575965224960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497848183510159360


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## Brainsucker

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497834154603741187
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497842264042835970
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497841794985304064


Why not talk in China?


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## RescueRanger

Damaged Ukrainian Military Khozak and BTR-3 can be seen abandoned in this photograph on the outskirts of Karkhiv.

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## Cryptic_Mafia

RescueRanger said:


> I am monitoring 5 international channels, not ONE has talked about the African, Turkish, Indian/Pakistani evacuees stranded in Ukraine.


again for them they are lesser humans

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## RescueRanger

Cryptic_Mafia said:


> again for them they are lesser humans


And yet some of us are falling head over feet to try and pluck the violin for their plight.

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## dBSPL

Brainsucker said:


> But is it really like that? We must compare it with American conquest on Iraq in early 21st century. They need 3 weeks to reach Baghdad. And even with that, they didn't managed to fully captured Iraq. The war was going on longer than that.
> 
> And that was Iraq, smaller, surrounded, even besieged by American long before the invasion began. Iraq couldn't even make their own tank and fighter Jet.
> 
> At the same time, Ukraine is big, they are not fully surrounded by Russian. They can make their own weapon. Their army is way stronger than Iraq at the time of American invasion.
> 
> But half of the Ukraine has the same ethnicity with Russia. Then I believe that Russian won't suffer a prolonged war like American in Iraq after the war is over. At least, as long as they avoid the western part of Ukraine.


Since Russia attacked from Belarus, Ukraine had to make the defense in the city. From the Belarusian border, the troops advanced 100 km and reached Kiev. Even the troops from Gomel advanced 200km, at most.

Russia's strategy was good in this regard, first a fake amphibious operation was launched to the south of Ukraine, then the troops in the east (and the Crimea) began to advance. Meanwhile, the Russian air force struck the bridges and strategic stations on the Dinipier river.

But the main action was the rapid capture of Kiev by the troops entering from Belarus.

Ukraine and Russia have a border of 1100km. The border with Belarus is 900 km. If you include Azov sea, Crimea and the Black Sea, Russia had the opportunity to open and loosen the defense lines of Ukraine for a longer than 3000 km. And he took full advantage of that.

The US invasion of Iraq took place with the power projection of the marine forces from the Gulf and Kuwait direction. Because they entered such a narrow area, they carried out one of the most brutal shock-awe bombardments in modern history. And in these regions, the US received great support from the Shiites, who make up the majority of the Iraqi population.

Ukraine was occupied not today, but in 2014. In the intervening 8 years, neither a European fighter plane nor a tank could be bought. But Saddam was able to buy the latest weapon systems of the period, especially from the French. Saddam's problem was his unwilling army to fight. The USA had destroyed the country from within, before actual invasion.

Ukraine is a country that is %80 surrounded by Russia(land and sea). And it's a country whose armies are totally dependent on foreign aid. For example; Russia seized the jets in 2014(at Crimea), dismantled them and returned them. Ukraine could not even make most of these aircraft fully operational.

Half of Ukraine is not Russian. The population of Russian descent is around 8 million. There are about 35 million Ukrainian descent citizens. Also around 1 million Turkish, Greek and Jewish minorities live. The places where the Russians live, mostly the places where the Turks were deported by Stalin. They settled with the Soviet population policy.

What happened to Ukraine is no less a tragedy than Iraq. Infrastructure was destroyed, possibly triggering a years-long civil war like Syria.

The US invasion of Iraq was a terrible mistake. Its political and economic cost has been very high, and its effects are felt more and more every day. Similar results will occur for Russia.

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## kingQamaR

Now that Putin has invaded Ukraine, he now has to win at any cost. If that means losing lots of troops, then he'll do it. Putin failing to win and win well is a disaster for him. It's already looking bad; it will get worse. I hope Ukraine make them pay a heavy price.

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## retaxis

When Russia leaves Ukraine, Russia is either going to leave it as a puppet or do scorch earth tactic and set Ukraine back to the stone age.


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## RescueRanger

*Russia will switch tactics* - the Ukrainian leadership are trying to out maneuver Moscow, Kremlin will now go after civilian and strategic infrastructure in Ukraine.

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## kingQamaR

Dont feel sorry for the Chechens at all. They made a choice. The Ukrainians didnt ask for this. The Chechens are turncoats that took money and paid for it with blood.

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## Indian Libertarian

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497847066734710784
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497843118191923204
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497839062132183042
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497842793464619009
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497847575965224960
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497848183510159360


I think they will agree on Baku.


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## RescueRanger

kingQamaR said:


> Dont feel sorry for the Chechens at all. They made a choice. The Ukrainians didnt ask for this. The Chechens are turncoats that took money and paid for it with blood.



*Do Not confuse Kadyrov's paid dogs with all Chechen's please!*

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## newb3e

RescueRanger said:


> And yet some of us are falling head over feet to try and pluck the violin for their plight.


as human i feel their pain they are innocent women children elderly fathers sons husbands caught in this political BS!! same way i feel for my Muslim and dark skinned brothers and sisters!

west puppies think ohhh AMrikay is some champion of human rights and we Muslims are barbaric evil but fkers have occupied us and we have every right to defend against this occupation!

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## jamahir

Genghis khan1 said:


>



There's something fishy. She ( Tulsi Gabbard ) is an ardent supporter of the right-wing Modi government in India and is a keen bridge between that government and the American establishment. Why is she talking here against the Ukranian government ? She said all that but didn't once mention the Ukranian government's links with a Nazi militia ( Azov Battalion ) and its other wings. That is a deliberate non-mention. She has been instructed by the establishment to make excuses for the American military not being in action in Ukraine against the Russian.

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## Indian Libertarian

jamahir said:


> There's something fishy. She ( Tulsi Gabbard ) is an ardent supporter of the right-wing Modi government in India and is a keen bridge between that government and the American establishment. Why is she talking here against the Ukranian government ? She said all that but didn't once mention the Ukranian government's links with a Nazi militia ( Azov Battalion ) and its other wings. That is a deliberate non-mention. She has been instructed by the establishment to make excuses for the American military not being in action in Ukraine against the Russian.


No, she’s just an all around non-interventionist. She also opposed US intervention in Syria, I think she met with Assad.

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## Shah_Deu

Erebus said:


> This clown (IK) has made a mockery of his country everywhere except China (maybe). He can't even get his group of ministers from speaking out of turn and humiliating his country more.
> 
> But we are digressing. The topic here is about the crisis in Ukraine. And yes Zelensky is much more of a man than IK will ever manage to be.


and your aatmanirbharta modi couldn't come up with a decent online platform so you guys have to lurk here!

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## RescueRanger

Russians are perhaps planning Minks 2.0

Instead of focusing on Kiev (which is now a sideshow) all eyes should be on Kherson, karkhiv, melitopol, Sumy. The Russian plan seems to me anyway seems to revolve around enveloping the Eastern and Southern Ukrainian armies in different pockets and force surrenders.

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## Indian Libertarian

RescueRanger said:


> Russians are perhaps planning Minks 2.0
> 
> Instead of focusing on Kiev (which is now a sideshow) all eyes should be on Kherson, karkhiv, melitopol, Sumy. The Russian plan seems to me anyway seems to revolve around enveloping the Eastern and Southern Ukrainian armies in different pockets and force surrenders.


I’m wondering what their demands will be. Demilitarization/neutrality on NATO are a given. They could force Ukraine to accept a weak federal structure, balkanize it, or even partition Eastern/Southern Ukraine as Novorossiya and annex it.

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## Joe Shearer

Shah_Deu said:


> and your aatmanirbharta modi couldn't come up with a decent online platform so you guys have to lurk here!


Some Indians do, not others. I am on seven fora concurrently. I have close friends here, and keep in touch.

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## Dalit

kingQamaR said:


> Now that Putin has invaded Ukraine, he now has to win at any cost. If that means losing lots of troops, then he'll do it. Putin failing to win and win well is a disaster for him. It's already looking bad; it will get worse. I hope Ukraine make them pay a heavy price.



Putin will win. Only a matter of time. Putin did his homework. The clean up operation has been planned meticulously for probably a long time.

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## jamahir

Indian Libertarian said:


> No, she’s just an all around non-interventionist. She also opposed US intervention in Syria, I think she met with Assad.



Surprising. Any article or vid of that meet ?



Erebus said:


> This clown (IK) has made a mockery of his country everywhere except China (maybe). He can't even get his group of ministers from speaking out of turn and humiliating his country more.



Meanwhile, our own Modi ji in China :








Modi Spells Strength as 'STREANH' 😂😂 | Mind-blowing !! 😂😂🤣🤣😱😱🙊🙊🙈 PM Narendra Modi spells 'Strength' as 'S T R E A N H' in front of Chinese delegation. May be that's how they do in "Entire... | By Gaurav Pandhi | Facebook


526K views, 1.9K likes, 29 loves, 2.4K comments, 10K shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Gaurav Pandhi: Mind-blowing !! 😂😂🤣🤣😱😱🙊🙊🙈 PM Narendra Modi spells 'Strength' as 'S T R E A N H' in front of...




www.facebook.com


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## Dalit

Erebus said:


> This clown (IK) has made a mockery of his country everywhere except China (maybe). He can't even get his group of ministers from speaking out of turn and humiliating his country more.
> 
> But we are digressing. The topic here is about the crisis in Ukraine. And yes Zelensky is much more of a man than IK will ever manage to be.



Says the RSS Nazi from India. Ask Modi how he feels that Nawazoo is counting his blood cells in London.

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## RescueRanger

Indian Libertarian said:


> I’m wondering what their demands will be. Demilitarization/neutrality on NATO are a given. They could force Ukraine to accept a weak federal structure, balkanize it, or even partition Eastern/Southern Ukraine as Novorossiya and annex it.


100% Putin has eyes on annexation of Donbas.

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## dBSPL

Dalit said:


> Putin will win. Only a matter of time. Putin did his homework. The clean up operation has been planned meticulously for probably a long time.


Pyrrhic victory

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Genghis khan1 said:


>



Imho she is a security risk in the US and don't even know why she is active in US politics looking things from an American perspective..

It would be like having Hasan Nasrallah in the Israeli parliament she has never said anything except it targetted the US

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## Wergeland

A important aspect to this war is that western nations are absolutely averse to direct intervention, that is, placing uniformed NATO soldiers on the ground.

What is the consequence?
NATO has to instead use its soft power. Which of course is formidable as we have seen, especially in the economic sphere.

The challenge with realiance on soft power is that a adversary is learning to adapt and increase its awareness to possible non-lethal sanctions. Forexample a transition from SWIFT monopoly to multiple systems, De-dollarization and so on.

China especially will be watching this and take preventive measures, which in turn could make next round of similar sanctions appear toothless. The major shift lies in the trasition of wealth from Atlantic centered to Indo-Pacific centered. The west has to continue to have a significant economic weight under its belt, in order for sanctions to be meaningful.

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## Dalit

Wergeland said:


> A important aspect to this war is that western nation are absolutely averse to direct intervention, that is placing uniformed NATO soldiers on the ground.
> 
> What is the consequence?
> NATO has to instead use its soft power. Which of course is formidable as we have seen, especially in the economic sphere.
> 
> The challenge with realiance on soft power is that a adversary is learning to adapt and increase its awareness to possible non-lethal sanctions. Forexample a transition from SWIFT monopoly to multiple systems, De-dollarization and so on.
> 
> China especially will be watching this and take preventive measures, which in turn could make next round of similar sanctions appear toothless. The major shift lies in the trasition of wealth from Atlantic centered to Indo-Pacific centered. The west has to have a significant weight under its under economic belt in order for sanctions to be meaningful.



The SWIFT sanction is also partial.

EU decides to remove some Russian banks from SWIFT​




__





EU besluit aantal Russische banken uit SWIFT te verwijderen | Oorlog in Oekraïne | NU.nl


Een aantal Russische banken zal verwijderd worden uit het internationale betaalsysteem SWIFT. Dat heeft de EU samen met de Verenigde Staten, het Verenigd Koninkrijk en Canada besloten, meldt voorzitter van de Europese Commissie Ursula von der Leyen zaterdagavond.




www.nu.nl


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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

dBSPL said:


> Pyrrhic victory



Ukraine was always gonna be a Pyrrhic victory as it is a huge country and I must say he has balls coming in. But It will be Pyrrhic victory nonethless where he seizes eastern Ukraine upto Dniper river and parts close to Kiev but not Kiev itself. Ukraine will lose upto 60% of it's territory but the remaining will be in the western part of the country.


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## srshkmr

Dalit said:


> LOL
> 
> *India turns down US persuasion to vote against Russia*
> 
> WASHINGTON: India, a key ally in the US-led effort to contain China, has joined Beijing in abstaining from a UN Security Council (UNSC) vote demanding an immediate Russian withdrawal from Ukraine.
> 
> Diplomatic observers in Washington see this as a clear indication that India would not strain its relations with an old ally, Russia, to please its new partner, the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India turns down US persuasion to vote against Russia
> 
> 
> Abstains from UNSC vote demanding Russian pullback from Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> www.dawn.com


Use of words clearly states the relationship “ally” Russia, “partner” USA

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## RescueRanger

This video shows the aftermath of Russian strikes against a Ukrainian military base in Vasylkiv, Kyiv Oblast. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497845128731443203
*Location: 50*11'10"N 30*18'30"E*

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## Wergeland

Dalit said:


> The SWIFT sanction is also partial.
> 
> EU decides to remove some Russian banks from SWIFT​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU besluit aantal Russische banken uit SWIFT te verwijderen | Oorlog in Oekraïne | NU.nl
> 
> 
> Een aantal Russische banken zal verwijderd worden uit het internationale betaalsysteem SWIFT. Dat heeft de EU samen met de Verenigde Staten, het Verenigd Koninkrijk en Canada besloten, meldt voorzitter van de Europese Commissie Ursula von der Leyen zaterdagavond.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nu.nl



The problem is that once you use a weapon the enemy is sooner or later going to get familiar with it.


----------



## Trango Towers

Khanate said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497823854680412160
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497822655155638275
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hold that thought


Idiots lined them up nicely next to each other in a war.

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## RescueRanger

Dalit said:


> The SWIFT sanction is also partial.
> 
> EU decides to remove some Russian banks from SWIFT​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU besluit aantal Russische banken uit SWIFT te verwijderen | Oorlog in Oekraïne | NU.nl
> 
> 
> Een aantal Russische banken zal verwijderd worden uit het internationale betaalsysteem SWIFT. Dat heeft de EU samen met de Verenigde Staten, het Verenigd Koninkrijk en Canada besloten, meldt voorzitter van de Europese Commissie Ursula von der Leyen zaterdagavond.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nu.nl


Expected to be honest. Meanwhile Germany is still buying Russian gas:








Yamal-Europe pipeline back to reverse mode after brief westbound flows


Russia's Yamal-Europe gas pipeline has resumed supplies from Germany to Poland on Saturday after a short period of westbound flows overnight for the first time since late December, data from German network operator Gascade showed.




www.reuters.com


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## Dalit

srshkmr said:


> Use of words clearly states the relationship “ally” Russia, “partner” USA



Jeez, it is all becoming crystal clear folks. All of it. The alliances and the allegiances. The Western powers are feeling the heat. Ukraine is pleading for help, but none has come.

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## Dalit

Wergeland said:


> The problem is that once you use a weapon then enemy is sooner or later going to get familiar with it.



Fact is that Western powers have been exposed badly this time around. During the Iraq and Afghan war a lot of excuses were fabricated for the loss. There are no excuses today.

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## Bengal71

khansaheeb said:


> Polish are quite racist that's why they get a good beating in the UK every day.



I have also heard Polish are very racist. Do they really get beaten for it?

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## FairAndUnbiased

Beny Karachun said:


> That was an ideological revolution, more people believed Communism, then they all died in Mao's famines.
> 
> They're not weaker, you're one and the same.
> 
> They'll win if they will conduct guerilla warfare


false. it was a civil war. the revolution phase was in the 1930's. the civil war phase was in 1945-1949 between CPC and KMT armies.

they already tried guerilla warfare in 1949-1951. Their guerillas were all killed by 1951.


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## Iron Shrappenel

RescueRanger said:


> Please forgive the crass example but there was a joke my driver used to say which suits this predicament we find ourselves in:
> 
> Angrez khaney Cake/Pastry - pad marney te kushbo ashney.
> 
> Asi khaney amlok - pad marney te badboo ashney.
> 
> Again I’m sorry for the crass example but akalmand kay lia ishara kafi hain. 😊





Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497834293636354049


What are the vehicles in the Video


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## serenity

Indian Libertarian said:


> Why do they keep entering cities without a proper siege? It just exposes them to Ukrainian ATGMs fired from buildings. Yesterday, I saw footage of Russian MRAPs just rolling through residential districts in Kiev.





Beny Karachun said:


> Who knew that driving in roads is easier than entering a huge 3 million men city (Although it's way less by now due to evacuation, but many stay to defend the city), defended by special forces, NLAWs, Stingers and Javelins?





Beny Karachun said:


> Day four already.
> 
> Time is in Ukraine's side, Ukraine is aiming for guerilla warfare that will continue indefinitely, as long as Russian forces are in the country.



No way Russia can easily win this against Geurilla warfare if Ukraine manages to keep getting small arms and ATGM and manpads.

Only option is to find diplomatic victory exchanging superior firepower force and threat of unleashing real firepower.

No invading force can easily overcome Geurilla warfare insurgent fighting over long term. They either have to level entire cities which they can but will look terrible and invite escalating responses. Or they can keep losing small losses forever and go bankrupt or they can trade advantage in potential firepower released to diplomatic victory where both sides settle. Neither side would want to go on with geurilla war tactics and operations since Ukraine cannot be resettled by Ukrianians during that time. Lose for both sides until discussion yields good results that can satisfy parts of both sides.

I don't understand Russia's plan.

Right now they are not releasing full firepower because it causes far too much destruction. Even if they gain whole Ukraine it is a ruined Ukraine where almost all Ukrainians will hate them for generations. So what is the plan then? capture Capital city is assured eventually if they continue pushing but they will need to keep spending resources and fighting to keep onto it.

Is Russia's plan to capture Kiev and then settle diplomatic victory?

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## gambit

Indian Libertarian said:


> No, I understand that Russia wouldn’t directly strike Poland for facilitating arms transport. However, they really need to destroy the arms being transported within Ukraine to prevent further casualties.


Unless Russia have real time intel on the movements of these weapons transport, there is nothing else the Russian army can do but wait to be on the receiving end of these weapons.

Most people do not realize how psychologically debilitating are the Stingers to low altitude helos, and it looks like the Russian army will be experience that trauma again, once from Afghanistan when the US armed the mujahedeens and and today in Ukraine when the US will arm the resistance fighters. There is no ejection seat in the helo. Auto rotation is your only possible, not probable, survival. The Stinger is supersonic and most helos are usually below 10K flight altitude, that mean if the missile have a lock, you essentially die. Each Stinger cost barely $40K so even if it took two misses per flares and one hit per helo, that is a bargain to let the enemy know he will be flying into a death trap the next time he return. Once it is known that the Ukrainians are Stinger armed, every Russian helo pilot will be on edge. People have no idea how you will be emotionally and physically drained at the end of a sortie. Then when there are less air cover from the helos, Russian tankers will be at risk from the Javelins.

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## dBSPL

Taiwan is part of mainland China. There is only one Chinese state at the UN. Comparing the Taiwan issue with Ukraine, could produces extremely erroneous results.

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## RescueRanger

Ukrainians defending the town of Bucha have destroyed a strategic bridge in Kiev District to delay the advance of Russian troops before falling back towards the city center. *The town of Bucha is 22.18km from Kiev City Centre. *


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## beast89

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497831871220174849


RIP

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## Wergeland

What if Putin is placing agents among the Ukrainian refugees that now is welcomed into neighboring western countries?

Could we see sabotage against NATO or clandestine intelligence gathering operation and stuff like that…


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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497853318458232837Some warnings have been made to prevent these records from being leaked. However, some of them are shared online. I guess to keep the morale of the people high.

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## khansaheeb

Bengal71 said:


> I have also heard Polish are very racist. Do they really get beaten for it?


Yeh, when they step out of line.

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## RescueRanger

RescueRanger said:


> Ukrainians defending the town of Bucha have destroyed a strategic bridge in Kiev District to delay the advance of Russian troops before falling back towards the city center. *The town of Bucha is 22.18km from Kiev City Centre. *
> 
> View attachment 819241


*Further to this image, there is serious fighting going on in Irpin, which is 22 KM from Kyiv city centre. 



Spoiler: Graphic





 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497859781079572480


*

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## alimobin memon

Taiwan asks for assurity !









U.S. should abandon ambiguity on Taiwan defense: Japan's Abe


Former prime minister floats possibility of hosting American nuclear weapons




asia.nikkei.com

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## RescueRanger

Ukrainians are contacting relatives of soldiers and volunteers killed in the fighting in Irpin, this message kindly translated reads as follows:

“Hi do you know [name]?” 
“Yes it’s my classmate, what happened?” 
“How do I put this delicately..”

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## FairAndUnbiased

dBSPL said:


> Taiwan is part of mainland China. There is only one Chinese state at the UN. Comparing the Taiwan issue with Ukraine, could produces extremely erroneous results.


Testing Chinese resolve about this does not end well for anyone.

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## Iron Shrappenel

gambit said:


> Unless Russia have real time intel on the movements of these weapons transport, there is nothing else the Russian army can do but wait to be on the receiving end of these weapons.
> 
> Most people do not realize how psychologically debilitating are the Stingers to low altitude helos, and it looks like the Russian army will be experience that trauma again, once from Afghanistan when the US armed the mujahedeens and and today in Ukraine when the US will arm the resistance fighters. There is no ejection seat in the helo. Auto rotation is your only possible, not probable, survival. The Stinger is supersonic and most helos are usually below 10K flight altitude, that mean if the missile have a lock, you essentially die. Each Stinger cost barely $40K so even if it took two misses per flares and one hit per helo, that is a bargain to let the enemy know he will be flying into a death trap the next time he return. Once it is known that the Ukrainians are Stinger armed, every Russian helo pilot will be on edge. People have no idea how you will be emotionally and physically drained at the end of a sortie. Then when there are less air cover from the helos, Russian tankers will be at risk from the Javelins.


KA-50S fo have ejection seat mechanisms though....


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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497714138696589318
If Russia didn't get results quickly, it created another Syria of its own.

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## RescueRanger

Unexploded Ordinance in Kharkiv.

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## dBSPL

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Testing Chinese resolve about this does not end well for anyone.


I try to look at the issue from a legal and historical perspective. I think China's thesis is also justified. Any foreign military presence in Taiwan is unacceptable. What I want to say is that it is extremely inconvenient for many media to try to draw parallels between Taiwan and Ukraine issues. First of all, it is not possible to talk about the principle of immutability of borders in Taiwan. Because Taiwan is part of China.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497863204545961984

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497854825316421633


Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497863204545961984


Nothing impressive about a taking out a static bit of scrap metal that is either disabled to abandoned.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497838210734567427

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497836700600573957

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## FairAndUnbiased

dBSPL said:


> I try to look at the issue from a legal and historical perspective. I think China's thesis is also justified. Any foreign military presence in Taiwan is unacceptable. What I want to say is that it is extremely inconvenient for many media to try to draw parallels between Taiwan and Ukraine issues. First of all, it is not possible to talk about the principle of immutability of borders in Taiwan. Because Taiwan is part of China.


The problem with Ukraine is that Russia accepted Ukraine's independence in 1991. Meanwhile China has never accepted Taiwanese independence or primacy. The situation would be legally different if Russia never recognized Ukraine's independence, even if it took no further action at the time. then it would be classified as a civil war and not an invasion. of course, Russia in 1991 was completely demoralized and economically strained, while China in 1949, though poor, was already on an upward trajectory.

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## Tomcats

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497866293051109376


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## RescueRanger

The fighting in Bucha is intense, the town is 22.8 KM from the capital. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497850068879253504

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## beast89

kingQamaR said:


> Now that Putin has invaded Ukraine, he now has to win at any cost. If that means losing lots of troops, then he'll do it. Putin failing to win and win well is a disaster for him. It's already looking bad; it will get worse. I hope Ukraine make them pay a heavy price.


How's it looking bad for Putin cos of twitter users ?

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## alimobin memon

Choppers near or in kiev is enough evidence that ukrainians are gonna get defeat. Cause without AD only can heli dare to enter enemy airspace.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Looks like the US, NATO and the west are depending on intense propaganda warfare to try to win this one.

They have just banned RT. This suggested to me they are losing the scripts.

From what I am seeing, Russia Military is systematically destroying Ukraine strategic target e.g. Oil Depot, Gas pipelines, Government offices, etc as planned.

Russia appears to be taking it slow and easy. They don't seem to be interested in capturing the cities.

Who is in charge of the military operation against Russia?

It is all so chaotic and disorganized. Those guys in military uniform don't appeared to be regular. 

Looks more like thugs and mafia to me.

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## dBSPL

FairAndUnbiased said:


> The problem with Ukraine is that Russia accepted Ukraine's independence in 1991. Meanwhile China has never accepted Taiwanese independence or primacy. The situation would be legally different if Russia never recognized Ukraine's independence, even if it took no further action at the time. then it would be classified as a civil war and not an invasion. of course, Russia in 1991 was completely demoralized and economically strained, while China in 1949, though poor, was already on an upward trajectory.


Dude, historically there was no such thing as a Taiwanese federation leaving the union. It's an incredibly detailed topic of course, but very briefly, isn't the status in Taiwan a result of the civil war in your country? The situation in Ukraine is very different indeed. Trying to establish analogies even in historical perspective seems to me a very forced effort.

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497855023899979778


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## alimobin memon

https://www.rt.com/russia/550723-germany-send-weapons-ukraine-operation/


Germany makes U-turn on sending weapons to Ukraine​
*its changing policy and gonna provide weapons does that mean russia will now stop gas supply ?*


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## Ali_Baba

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497810526436569092



It shows the value of HAS and the poor use of airfield control by the UAF... those things are literally right next to each other, rather than spread out all over the airfield which is what they should be if they dont have HAS ...

it also shows the value of having fake's on the airfield aswell to distract attacking forces !!! this just shows the lack of tactical military thinking by the UAF and the lack of protection of it AD network has been shocking..


*EDIT - 27/02/2022 -*

Apparently those Mig29s are not part of the active fleet - ie unserviceable/retired for a number of years - which is why they were parked like that - so no real loss from a military perspective.


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## Mujahid Memon

Quite dramatic

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## Zhukov

What is this enthusiaism in So many Pakistani members for a Russian Attack on Europe?.
If anything happens to western europe our puny Export based industry will be dead literally. UK Spain Italy France Germany are the major Net-Export partners for our medium sized exporters.
Russia is irrelevant for our Economy. They are neither our major Export nor Import Partner.
Make an opinnion objectively.

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## FairAndUnbiased

dBSPL said:


> Dude, historically there was no such thing as a Taiwanese federation leaving the union. It's an incredibly detailed topic of course, but very briefly, isn't the status in Taiwan a result of the civil war in your country? The situation in Ukraine is very different indeed. Trying to establish analogies even in historical perspective seems to me a very forced effort.


yes, the Taiwan situation historically is due to a civil war. Briefly, CPC and KMT could not resolve their differences through voting so they fought it out and CPC won. I am agreeing with you that it is not comparable legally speaking.


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## Enigma SIG

alimobin memon said:


> Choppers near or in kiev is enough evidence that ukrainians are gonna get defeat. Cause without AD only can heli dare to enter enemy airspace.


Speaks a lot about the UAF. They have lost control of their own airspace.

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## dBSPL

Mujahid Memon said:


> Quite dramatic


Still not at the surreal level as Syria.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1231187080270708736

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## FairAndUnbiased

ahmadnawaz22 said:


> What is this enthusiaism in So many Pakistani members for a Russian Attack on Europe?.
> If anything happens to western europe our puny Export based industry will be dead literally. UK Spain Italy France Germany are the major Net-Export partners for our medium sized exporters.
> Russia is irrelevant for our Economy. They are neither our major Export nor Import Partner.
> Make an opinnion objectively.


nothing will happen to western Europe except 1 very important fact: they won't be thinking too much about Pakistan. That is great news because for the first time in 20+ years, Pakistan is no longer going to bear the burden of war.

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## thetutle

There are all these videos of Russian trucks rolling past high-rise buildings and someone is taking videos. Its quite puzzling that 20 RPG-s are being fired att hem all at once from the rooftops ro balconies. Better balconies as it provides overhead cover.


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## Enigma SIG

ahmadnawaz22 said:


> What is this enthusiaism in So many Pakistani members for a Russian Attack on Europe?.
> If anything happens to western europe our puny Export based industry will be dead literally. UK Spain Italy France Germany are the major Net-Export partners for our medium sized exporters.
> Russia is irrelevant for our Economy. They are neither our major Export nor Import Partner.
> Make an opinnion objectively.


No enthusiasm. No one likes war. It's just funny seeing how the US has failed it's "allies" over and over again.

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## Bengal71

Amigator said:


> This is very funny. This war is going comical.



Not a single one refusing cigarette. Smoking rate must be very high in Ukraine.

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## Windjammer

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497826623361536003

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## Ali_Baba

patero said:


> In the long term Russia can work around SWIFT, its just going to be much more costly and difficult, Iran managed it. But its the Russian bank sanctions that are actually more damaging to the Russian economy, even those sanctions already actioned let alone further sanctions against the Russian central bank.



The central bank sanctions will hurt the Russian economy more than the Swift ones as Russia has lost financial liquidity if you consider how much money the russian central bank holds overseas.

Only Manpads and anti-tank weapons can slow down the invasion - and it is the financial sanctions that will ultimately force russia to withdraw its forces from ukraine if it wants sanctions to be removed. It is those sanctions that degrade russia's ability to be able to launch another invasion war as it has done now with ukraine.

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## Enigma SIG

FairAndUnbiased said:


> nothing will happen to western Europe except 1 very important fact: they won't be thinking too much about Pakistan. That is great news because for the first time in 20+ years, Pakistan is no longer going to bear the burden of war.


Yeah their weapons flowing into Europe instead of India and Balochistan / TTP separatists. Gonna be a breather.

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## dBSPL

Windjammer said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497826623361536003


If they're not fake targets, it's likely that the Ukrainian air force lost nearly half of its operational jets here.

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## Zhukov

FairAndUnbiased said:


> nothing will happen to western Europe except 1 very important fact: they won't be thinking too much about Pakistan. That is great news because for the first time in 20+ years, Pakistan is no longer going to bear the burden of war.


We dont want them to think for us. As long as they keep buying our Bed sheets , Kids suits , Curtains , Leather shoes , Mangoes , Rice , TShirts , Hoodies etc. And their big brands keep outsourcing the manufacturing process to our Industries in Sialkot Karachi Faisalabad and Lahore. 
Thats the Bottom line. As long as Russia China USA or any other country can replace that big source of Income for us , Europe is irreplaceable for us. There Unique Markets of Big margins with medium quantity orders is very good for middle scale industry of Pakistan.
For Example My home City Faisalabad is like 70% dependemt on Italy Spain France UK and Germany for its Exports based Industry that is in turn a massive source of employment for people upto South Punjab.

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## Ali_Baba

patero said:


> In the long term Russia can work around SWIFT, its just going to be much more costly and difficult, Iran managed it. But its the Russian bank sanctions that are actually more damaging to the Russian economy, even those sanctions already actioned let alone further sanctions against the Russian central bank.



Yes - and no. Given the size of the Russian overseas trade - who is going to want to trade with Russia if it does not have access to a guaranteed payment framework? At this rate - Russia maybe forced to trade via barter trade and even then for a smaller segment of its economy.

there are 2 parties to a trade .. and the none russian party would have to make the decision to conduct deals with russian companies without the financial guarantees a payment system like swift offers. 

additionally - will china allows it payment system to be used to "bust" western sanctions? It could make the chinese system the target of sanctions aswell/restrictions if russians switch over to it? I dont know of course, but i dont think it is as simple as saying that they can switch to a chinese system.

you should not understate the effect of the sanctions on the russian central bank or swift on the russian economy. they will take a few weeks to kick in, but they will.

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## maverick1977

Street to street fighting reported in Kharkiv. Last night was not good for Ukranian forces. Also, the effect of their crippled supply lines and depots are showing up on all fronts


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## RescueRanger

*There is serious fighting now in the town of Bucha in the district of Irpin 22 KM from Kyiv City Centre. *

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## Iñigo

"What is this enthusiaism in So many Pakistani members for a Russian Attack on Europe?"

"Attack" (!?)

Counterattack, Pushing back the bullying fanatic

...

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## EasyNow

jamahir said:


> There's something fishy. She ( Tulsi Gabbard ) is an ardent supporter of the right-wing Modi government in India and is a keen bridge between that government and the American establishment. Why is she talking here against the Ukranian government ? She said all that but didn't once mention the Ukranian government's links with a Nazi militia ( Azov Battalion ) and its other wings. That is a deliberate non-mention. She has been instructed by the establishment to make excuses for the American military not being in action in Ukraine against the Russian.



I'm sorry but you are going to witness the reality of hard socialism now. It is nothing but a pretext for mass control. 

We are going back to the Orwellian era of secret police and state tyranny again - all under the cheering watch of the world's caring, loving socialists.

After the Russian transformation of Ukraine occurs, you can look back and decide what was a better way of life. The democratic, capitalist West centric one or this new one.


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## RescueRanger

ahmadnawaz22 said:


> What is this enthusiaism in So many Pakistani members for a Russian Attack on Europe?.


*What are you even talking about? This is a defence forum and people are making observations just like people are doing all over the world! *

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## jaybird

Bengal71 said:


> Not a single one refusing cigarette. Smoking rate must be very high in Ukraine.


Maybe the question was asked before the camera shot was: " You want to take a cigarette or a bullet?

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## Iñigo

The situation was heading towards a major war in Europe that could end in a nuclear confrontation.

The Russian ruling class with its grave and unpleasant and rational decision has saved us from a dreadful future in Europe.

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## jamahir

beast89 said:


> RIP



Why do you want to be sad over the death of a Nazi ?



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497863204545961984



Maybe the Russians should get Syrian tank soldiers because the Syrians have to fight off NATO-supported "Syrian" "moderate" "rebel" terrorists in similar urban circumstances.



ahmadnawaz22 said:


> What is this enthusiaism in So many Pakistani members for a Russian Attack on Europe?.
> If anything happens to western europe our puny Export based industry will be dead literally. UK Spain Italy France Germany are the major Net-Export partners for our medium sized exporters.
> Russia is irrelevant for our Economy. They are neither our major Export nor Import Partner.
> Make an opinnion objectively.



Do you always look for things in selfish and disconnected manner ? Look at actions of Russia in a human manner, in a decent manner. Russia has legitimate issues with the Ukrainian government and military. All NATO imperialism anywhere should be defeated. That is the rational and human thing to seek.



EasyNow said:


> I'm sorry but you are going to witness the reality of hard socialism now. It is nothing but a pretext for mass control.
> 
> We are going back to the Orwellian era of secret police and state tyranny again - all under the cheering watch of the world's caring, loving socialists.
> 
> After the Russian transformation of Ukraine occurs, you can look back and decide what was a better way of life. The democratic, capitalist West centric one or this new one.



For the last 11 years at least aren't the people of Libya, Syria and Venezuela either trying to go back to their Socialist times or defend their Socialist societies ? Even the biased UNO has put in document that the Socialist system of war-torn Syria has better socio-economic facilities given to its citizens than South Asia including my own "Sixth largest economy in the world" India.

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## Ali_Baba

Indian Libertarian said:


> I wonder what Russia is going to do about the AT/MANPADS being sent over from the Polish border. If they don’t air strike the convoys transporting them, they’re screwed. Otherwise, they could destroy bridges across the Dnieper to cut off Ukrainian resupplies.



Manpads, anti-tank weapons can be transported using donkeys over the border - it does not need bridges or roads as they are small weapons. The border with Poland is large - so pratically - there is nothing russia can do about the transfer of these types of weapons to ukraine.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497878572056420357


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## Enigma SIG

EasyNow said:


> I'm sorry but you are going to witness the reality of hard socialism now. It is nothing but a pretext for mass control.
> 
> *We are going back to the Orwellian era of secret police and state tyranny again - all under the cheering watch of the world's caring, loving socialists.*
> 
> After the Russian transformation of Ukraine occurs, you can look back and decide what was a better way of life. The democratic, capitalist West centric one or this new one.


Tell that to Snowden lol.

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## EasyNow

Iñigo said:


> The situation was heading towards a major war in Europe that could end in a nuclear confrontation.
> 
> The Russian ruling class with its grave and unpleasant and rational decision has saved us from a dreadful future in Europe.



Can you explain what dreadful future you mean?


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## RescueRanger

A Ukranian civillian gets caught in the cross-fire between Russian and Ukranian forces in Kharkiv.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497879947888799745

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## Ali_Baba

Flight of falcon said:


> The idea is that the Russians want to install their puppet and they don’t want to destroy too much infrastructure or cause civilian casualties.



I dont see how long a puppet regime will last given the size of ukraine and the hostility of the population. The only way russia can hold onto ukraine is through active military occupation.


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## S.Y.A

Windjammer said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497826623361536003


that is a shame. ukraine was severely unprepared for a war, and kept believing that US pressure will force russia to back off. also, lesson for: good multilayer EW, AD and Air force are the need of the hour.


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## maverick1977

RescueRanger said:


> A Ukranian civillian gets caught in the cross-fire between Russian and Ukranian forces in Kharkiv.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497879947888799745


In Kharkiv, the city continues to savasit. A citizen of Ukraine caught in the middle of the conflict.


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## Zhukov

jamahir said:


> Do you always look for things in selfish and disconnected manner ? Look at actions of Russia in a human manner, in a decent manner. Russia has legitimate issues with the Ukrainian government and military. All NATO imperialism anywhere should be defeated. That is the rational and human thing to seek


Have to look out for these 230 Million first mate. What can i say. There is so much going on in the world. We are not in a situation to loose the small export base we have.
I totally support the opressed againat the opressors. But Too many factors that can rip apart the fragile balance of my country even if people dont realise here. No thanks to becoming Syria , Iraq , Afghanistan or Lybia. Yes i am selfish in this regard.
We are a poor third world country and we have to do whatever it takes for survival. It is what it is.

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## American Pakistani

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497878572056420357


Lol, isn't that what France did when it occupied Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Libya and massacred Muslims? Oh... I remember, Muslim blood is cheap for France.

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## S.Y.A

Ali_Baba said:


> Manpads, anti-tank weapons can be transported using donkeys over the border - it does not need bridges or roads as they are small weapons. The border with Poland is large - so pratically - there is nothing russia can do about the transfer of these types of weapons to ukraine.


exactly, if pakistan can supply mujahideein in 80s across rugged terrain, then so can europe.

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## thetutle

Enigma SIG said:


> No enthusiasm. No one likes war. It's just funny seeing how the US has failed it's "allies" over and over again.



US has not failed any allies. US has treaty allies. That is NATO, Australia, Japan, South Korea. 

What ally has been abandoned? Afghanistan? they are not an ally, they are a country America wanted to destroy and its done a fairly good job of it. 

Ukraine is not an ally of the US. its a country that has been given an opportunity to Become a treaty ally, but it isn't able to yet. It needs to free itself of foreign occupation first. America will not wage war for it especially not on Russia. America will never fight Russia openly. Its not how things are done.


----------



## RescueRanger

Despite tweets from UAF stating Irpin has been cleared of Russian forces, this video less than a minute ago reports of heavy shelling and asks citizens to evacuate the area:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497882128696197129


----------



## Viet

Breaking news
Thanks Putin
Germany will increase defense spending to $80 billion minimum per year. New joint fighter jets with France, new drones from Israel, buying F35 as nuclear bombers, upgrading Typhoons.
For this year, Germany will increase spending by $120 billion.
That’s unprecedented.
Will be lots of tanks, submarines.

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## American Pakistani

thetutle said:


> US has not failed any allies. US has treaty allies. That is NATO, Australia, Japan, South Korea.
> 
> What ally has been abandoned? Afghanistan? they are not an ally, they are a country America wanted to destroy and its done a fairly good job of it.
> 
> Ukraine is not an ally of the US. its a country that has been given an opportunity to Become a treaty ally, but it isn't able to yet. It needs to free itself of foreign occupation first. America will not wage war for it especially not on Russia. America will never fight Russia openly. Its not how things are done.



Pakistan, a country that was used and abandoned multiple times.

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## Ali_Baba

RescueRanger said:


> NATO Assets in the sky above the region today:
> View attachment 819233
> 
> 
> View attachment 819234



I suspect there are more F35s in theatre and flying without their transponders on - then what this diagram show. Russians will have difficulty in detecting them and they are literally first responders if the ruskies attempt anything against poland ... or anything against one of these survellience planes.. (imho..)


----------



## S.Y.A

American Pakistani said:


> Lol, isn't that what France did when it occupied Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Libya and massacred Muslims? Oh... I remember, Muslim blood is cheap for France.


I was just watching CNN and the english speaking white journalist/host was saying that no child should have to go through this, and this will affect them for the rest of their lives, blah-blah-blah, but i saw no such reporting for afghan, iraqi, libyan children killed by USA,UK , France etc. They are hypocrites, and only care for white lives. this affects the and they are feeling sad them because after a long time, war is happening in their own backyard. up till this point, it was brown people being killed thousands of miles away.

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## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> Here is the legal deal...
> 
> Convention (V) respecting the Rights and Duties of Neutral Powers and Persons in Case of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907.
> 
> For now, we have Russia and Ukraine as belligerents. And Poland as a neutral power.
> 
> Article 1. The territory of neutral Powers is inviolable.​​This mean initially, no one can violate Poland's borders.
> 
> Art. 2. Belligerents are forbidden to move troops or convoys of either munitions of war or supplies across the territory of a neutral Power.​Art. 3. Belligerents are likewise forbidden to:​(a) Erect on the territory of a neutral Power a wireless telegraphy station or other apparatus forthe purpose of communicating with belligerent forces on land or sea;​(b) Use any installation of this kind established by them before the war on the territory of a neutral Power for purely military purposes, and which has not been opened for the service of public messages.​
> This mean Russia and Ukraine are forbidden to use Polish territory for war purposes.
> 
> Art. 4. Corps of combatants cannot be formed nor recruiting agencies opened on the territory of a neutral Power to assist the belligerents.​Art. 5. A neutral Power must not allow any of the acts referred to in Articles 2 to 4 to occur on its territory. It is not called upon to punish acts in violation of its neutrality unless the said acts have been committed on its own territory.​
> But now it becomes problematic, not just for Poland but for any country that claim neutrality but is *MATERIALLY* helping Ukraine such as transporting arms and/or sheltering Ukrainian fighters (not refugees).
> 
> Is Poland facilitating article 4 *IN FAVOR* of Ukraine? What is 'Corps of combatants' can also be extended to munitions because combatants and munitions usually accompany each other. If it is interpreted that Poland violated article 4, then Poland lost article 1 and Russia will be within legal bounds to attack Poland. But that would also trigger Article 5 of NATO charter.
> 
> A potential problem now is the integration of trade and financial systems. Could Russia argue that neutral powers who denied Russia access to the international financial system fall under Article 4? In other words, as those neutral powers actively use their native resources to assist Ukraine, they became belligerents on the side of Ukraine, thereby losing Article 1 protection.


the law is from 1907 , interesting you bring it out, let fast forward to 1914 Europe was in war , Iran announced neutrality , England and Russia Attacked and occupied Iran , again fast forward to 1939, Europe was again in war , Iran announced neutrality , USSR and England attacked and occupied Iran , Iran asked help from USA president , the answer was, "in time of war sacrifices must be made."

wonder if all these laws are global or only applicable if they suit you.
by the way if Poland allow England and Germany ship weapons to Ukraine from their land that's hardly called neutral

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## kingQamaR

beast89 said:


> How's it looking bad for Putin cos of twitter users ?



Would you ask the same at the people of Russians too? You clearly aren't able to differentiate between the government and its people. Let me spell it out to you, its Putin who wants this war. Not your average person from Russia or China. They have nothing to gain from this.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Dalit said:


> LOL
> 
> *India turns down US persuasion to vote against Russia*
> 
> WASHINGTON: India, a key ally in the US-led effort to contain China, has joined Beijing in abstaining from a UN Security Council (UNSC) vote demanding an immediate Russian withdrawal from Ukraine.
> 
> Diplomatic observers in Washington see this as a clear indication that India would not strain its relations with an old ally, Russia, to please its new partner, the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India turns down US persuasion to vote against Russia
> 
> 
> Abstains from UNSC vote demanding Russian pullback from Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> www.dawn.com



Will the QUAD survive this? I suspect not. Lets see. India has the right to decide what is in her best interests but so do the other members of the QUAD.

A great of time, money and political will has been spent in the last 30years to build up India and it seems that push comes to shove - India cannot be relied upon. What is the point of all of those IT outsourcing dollars to build up the Indian economy and what guarantee is there she will do the needful against China? None - and the politicans are now starting to realise this.

There has been a lot of commentary on this - and one that will be actioned on once this firefighting stage is over and done with.

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## American Pakistani

S.Y.A said:


> I was just watching CNN and the english speaking white journalist/host was saying that no child should ahve to go through this, and this will affect them for the rest of their lives, blah-blah-blah, but i saw no such reporting for afghan, iraqi, libyan children killed by USA,UK , France etc. The are hypocrites, and only care for white lives. this affects and are feeling sad them because after a long time, war is happening in their own backyard. up till this point, it was brown people being killed thousands of miles away.


That is so true. Even though I feel really bad for Ukrainians, but the hypocrisy is evident in west's crocodile tears. Look at Kashmiris who are under illegal Indian occupation and subject to genocide, look at Palestine, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Libya. Not a single word.

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## Suriya

Poland is allowing to enter without any visa all Indian students who escape from Russian aggression in Ukraine.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497873801916280833


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## RescueRanger

Viet said:


> Breaking news
> Thanks Putin
> Germany will increase defense spending to $80 billion minimum per year. New joint fighter jets with France, new drones from Israel, buying F35 as nuclear bombers.
> For this year, Germany will increase spending by $120 billion.
> That’s unprecedented.

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## Hack-Hook

khansaheeb said:


> Seriously? Russians have reached the capital of 50 million strong country within 3 days and you don't call that progress? They have knocked out most of the Ukrainian air force, knocked out most of Ukrainian armored divisions, they are controlling the sky, the power stations, water and gas utilities are ready to be destroyed, there is a mass refugee crisis and Russians have more soldiers and equipment ready to send and you are saying Russian invasion hasn't progressed.


waste of time trying to capture capital , cut Ukraine from the western border and its shore , enforce a no fly zone over Ukraine , with foreign help cut Ukraine army will fall , no need for costly city wars 
meanwhile wage a propaganda warfare n Ukraine cities , and lower their morals . you see the people there will do your war , don't need to endanger your forces

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## RescueRanger

Ali_Baba said:


> I suspect there are more F35s in theatre and flying without their transponders on - then what this diagram show. Russians will have difficulty in detecting them and they are literally first responders if the ruskies attempt anything against poland ... or anything against one of these survellience planes.. (imho..)


Obviously, this is just for us enthusiasts to keep busy.


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## thetutle

American Pakistani said:


> Pakistan, a country that was used and abandoned multiple times.



Pakistan is not an ally fo the US. Never was and will not be. They found you useful in the Cold War, they found you useful in 2001. They wouldn't even sell you F16 in the 1990's after you paid for them. Sorry if you thought US was your ally. You were mistaken. 

US does not have any Arab allies either. it only has puppets. The only country that is muslim that is a US ally is Albania and Turkey. Both treaty allies. They rest are all puppets or enemies.

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## S.Y.A

American Pakistani said:


> That is so true. Even though I feel really bad for Ukrainians, but the hypocrisy is evident in their crocodile tears. Look at Kashmiris who are under illegal Indian occupation and subject to genocide, look at Palestine, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Libya. Not a single word.


its simple: they dont care. they used ukraine as cannon fodder, they pumped them up, used ukraine to degrade russian military economic capability, caused death and destruction in ukraine and as you said, are now shedding crocodile tears.

its all going according to plan for US and NATO

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## Messerschmitt

Viet said:


> Breaking news
> Thanks Putin
> Germany will increase defense spending to $80 billion minimum per year. New joint fighter jets with France, new drones from Israel, buying F35 as nuclear bombers, upgrading Typhoons.
> For this year, Germany will increase spending by $120 billion.
> That’s unprecedented.
> Will be lots of tanks, submarines.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497883411209461762

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497884141152612353^ Trump could not convince Germany to do so but Putin did.


----------



## S.Y.A

thetutle said:


> Pakistan is not an ally fo the US. Never was and will not be. They found you useful in the Cold War, they found you useful in 2001. They wouldn't even sell you F16 in the 1990's after you paid for them. Sorry if you thought US was your ally. You were mistaken.
> 
> US does not have any Arab allies either. it only has puppets. The only country that is muslim that is a US ally is Albania and Turkey. Both treaty allies. They rest are all puppets or enemies.


Pakistan was declared a major non nato ally, pakistan had defense treaties with them. ayub khan was guaranteed support for breaking away kashmir, usa failed to uphold its end of deal, that is what kicked off the 65 war, even though ayub khan had refused to attack india earlier in 62.

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## Hack-Hook

Indian Libertarian said:


> No, I understand that Russia wouldn’t directly strike Poland for facilitating arms transport. However, they really need to destroy the arms being transported within Ukraine to prevent further casualties.


instead of wasting time over Kiev , capture the damn border


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## Viet

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 819254
> View attachment 819255
> 
> View attachment 819256
> View attachment 819257
> 
> View attachment 819258
> View attachment 819260


Yes good time to buy shares of weapons makers


----------



## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497885199174037505


----------



## S.Y.A

Ali_Baba said:


> Will the QUAD survive this? I suspect not. Lets see. India has the right to decide what is in her best interests but so do the other members of the QUAD.
> 
> A great of time, money and political will has been spent in the last 30years to build up India and it seems that push comes to shove - India cannot be relied upon. What is the point of all of those IT outsourcing dollars to build up the Indian economy and what guarantee is there she will do the needful against China? None - and the politicans are now starting to realise this.
> 
> There has been a lot of commentary on this - and one that will be actioned on once this firefighting stage is over and done with.


they couldnt handle pakistani EW, what makes nato think they will jump in against china, or their long time ally, russia?


----------



## thetutle

Hack-Hook said:


> interesting you bring it out, let fast forward to 1914 Europe was in war , Iran announced neutrality , England and Russia Attacked and occupied Iran , again fast forward to 1939, Europe was again in war , Iran announced neutrality , USSR and England attacked and occupied Iran , Iran asked help from USA president , the answer was, "in time of war sacrifices must be made."



Looks like you guys a slow learners.


----------



## Enigma SIG

S.Y.A said:


> I was just watching CNN and the english speaking white journalist/host was saying that no child should have to go through this, and this will affect them for the rest of their lives, blah-blah-blah, but i saw no such reporting for afghan, iraqi, libyan children killed by USA,UK , France etc. The are hypocrites, and only care for white lives. this affects the and they are feeling sad them because after a long time, war is happening in their own backyard. up till this point, it was brown people being killed thousands of miles away.



They just want to massacre, rape and destroy non-European lands which is why they're shedding a tear for war in Europe. They had a pact never to fight on European lands again; which is why they have opened up theaters all over the globe since WW2.

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## RescueRanger

Viet said:


> Yes good time to buy shares of weapons makers

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## LeGenD

ezerdi2 said:


> Russians must ask themselves the question why they can no longer influence even the small border countries , the method of force no longer works, it is soft power and money that matters now , the US does not even need to ask the eastern countries to join NATO, they are the ones who do it of their own free will.
> Russia has the potential to become N1 in the economy and have an influence as great as the US, They have insane potential but a Third World mentality. Yet they have brains, good scientists, economists, men of culture, etc., everything needed to develop this vast territory.


You have perspective and wisdom, my friend. Appreciated. 

Post more.

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## Enigma SIG

S.Y.A said:


> its simple: they dont care. they used ukraine as cannon fodder, they pumped them up, used ukraine to degrade russian military economic capability, caused death and destruction in ukraine and as you said, are now shedding crocodile tears.
> 
> its all going according to plan for US and NATO


The best part is that the US is getting all new SIGINT and HUMINT on Russian capabilities, war production and tactics and updating their war game data; all free of cost at the expense of Ukraine and Russia.
Cheeky b******* these Americans.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497886287809986561

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497886264908992514

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
1 | Sad Sad:
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## nangyale

Beny Karachun said:


> We won't be defeated period.


The post war order is coming to an end. Yesterday's sureties doesn't look so solid any more.
Pray that Russians don't get pissed enough with your shenanigans in Ukraine that they give a green light to the Iranians.

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## Bengal71

pakpride00090 said:


> Imagine Chinese opening a front and start a war to get hold of Taiwan.... Phir tou maza hi maza ... WW3 here we come.



There is no maza in war bhai...it's all death and destruction

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## American Pakistani

thetutle said:


> Pakistan is not an ally fo the US. Never was and will not be. They found you useful in the Cold War, they found you useful in 2001. They wouldn't even sell you F16 in the 1990's after you paid for them. Sorry if you thought US was your ally. You were mistaken.
> 
> US does not have any Arab allies either. it only has puppets. The only country that is muslim that is a US ally is Albania and Turkey. Both treaty allies. They rest are all puppets or enemies.



What about when pakistan was member of SEATO & CENTO. What happened in 71?

But yes, you are right. For west Muslim blood is cheap.

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## jamahir

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497878572056420357



You should ask your NATO governments whose leaders of the same age as Putin why they send the same age soldiers to fight in faraway countries for nothing more reason than to maintain Capitalist imperialism in the world. The common soldier in NATO militaries should rebel against their governments and overthrow the Capitalist dictatorial form of governments their countries have.



ahmadnawaz22 said:


> Have to look out for these 230 Million first mate. What can i say. There is so much going on in the world. We are not in a situation to loose the small export base we have.
> I totally support the opressed againat the opressors. But Too many factors that can rip apart the fragile balance of my country even if people dont realise here. No thanks to becoming Syria , Iraq , Afghanistan or Lybia. Yes i am selfish in this regard.
> We are a poor third world country and we have to do whatever it takes for survival. It is what it is.



Before 1947 your current country, same as mine, was a bunch of monarchic and feudal lands ruled by the British. The Nation State is a concept that came about through the French revolution and is as artificial as the concept of monarchy and feudalism. Why should the sufferings of your country people be any more saddening than the sufferings of any other country whose enclosing borders are as non-natural than the borders that enclose your country ? What is natural is the human'ness that you share with the person in another country. Isn't that enough to be empathetic to them ? Late last year there was a PDF thread about two young men in Pakistan who suicided in two separate shopping malls by jumping off the higher floors. They suicided because they had become unemployed, and rat-race employment in their surrounding anti-human and irrational socio-economic system was their own source of maintaining themselves and their family. Any progressive person, including a Communist like me, in any part of the world will empathize with their cases and will speak for a rational, empathetic and scientific socio-economic system in Pakistan.

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## Enigma SIG

Hack-Hook said:


> instead of wasting time over Kiev , capture the damn border


They're actually slicing off border territories and cutting Ukraine off from the Sea. Capturing Kiev isn't the objective duh.


----------



## nangyale

FuturePAF said:


> Well many Russian banks are about to be cut out of SWIFT, which will impact imports and exports.
> 
> Oil and gas prices are about to soar. (Would be a good time for Gulf countries to work with Iraq to lay a pipeline from them to the Turkish pipeline network connected to Europe.
> 
> But also, wheat prices (Russia supplies 18% of world supply) and all the downstream industries connected to it will be effected, especially in developing countries. Russia also exports a lot of fertilizer (20% of world supply), so agricultural production around the world could drop severely. Investments need to be done to raise agricultural productivity around the world to minimize the impact of the food cutoff, *or else we could see massive famine around the world.*


There won't be any disruption apart from the Natoland.
The rest of the world will continue to trade with Russia, bypassing the dollar system.


----------



## Enigma SIG

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497886264908992514


Not that!

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## kingQamaR

beast89 said:


> How's it looking bad for Putin cos of twitter users ?







Russia is even going to destroy China's economy because people are going to stop buying from you . Factories need buyers your leader is wise kept his mouth shut


----------



## Suriya

Brainsucker said:


> Now, look at what I see. United States need India more than India need them.


Yes, no doubt about it. United States needs India when it comes to Indo-pacific.
The whole world need India when it comes dealing with a belligerent China.
India will become a near equal to China in coming decades.

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## S.Y.A

Picard578 said:


> Well, they are both tyrannies, really. It is just that America is much less direct and more polite about it.


exactly, corporations and old senators from entrenched families direct USA's policies.

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## Iñigo

EasyNow said:


> Can you explain what dreadful future you mean?



a major war in Europe that could end in nuclear confrontation

The Situation was:

(1) The most colossal, brutal and deadly military empire the face of the earth has ever known, which in recent years has unscrupulously sent 3-4 million to hell and displaced several million from their homes, or directly or subcontracted chaos, terror and destruction

(2) With an imperial oligarchy that suffers from a rabid, deep, pathological and incurable Russophobia, which permeates everything from top to bottom

(3) An unstoppable trend of encircling, threatening and harassing Russia, and

(4) More than 20 years of unsuccessfully trying to communicate with a bunch of narcissists, cynics, rabid ideological fanatics and little children trapped in delusional fantasies. This complete inability to communicate is frightening. Their interests, desires and even their ultimate sentimental and/or cultural whims are sacred. And the interests and lives of others are worthless

If, for example, 1000 shells a day fall on the Russians in the Don ... The West shrugs its shoulders, and so on. If they are reminded of past promises ... the secretary of state literally shrugged his shoulders in front of minister Lavrov and said "... are/were words", and only failed to add: and we use words to deceive, that's why the Russians tired of lies and deception wanted a written agreement

The Russian ruling class with its grave, unpleasant and rational decision has broken a trend that was inexorably on a "collision course" as we sailors say. It was either war now or a worse war in the future.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497853526881546241

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497887759356334081

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497887762267127810


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## Song Hong

Ukraine unit in Chernobyl defect to Russian army. Both side vow to protect Chernobyl from sabotage.



https://weibo.com/6189120710/Lho2cC2de

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## BigMelatonin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497840669066502145
Ukraine claims they are repelling the Russians and killing thousands but calls for foreign volunteers at the same time?

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## Hack-Hook

LeGenD said:


> Statistics do not tell how much of the military force is in good shape or can be diverted towards a theater of operations in view of financial situation and without compromising other security commitments.
> 
> NATO could also spare limited military force for Operation Iraqi Freedom in 2003: a total of 90,000 troops were involved in taking over Iraq on the ground in this war effort. Kuwait was the only country in the region which allowed NATO forces to invade Iraq from the ground. Baghdad is located in the center of Iraq and there are several Iraqi cities and locations which drew attention of the invading forces when coming from Kuwait. If Iran had allowed NATO forces to invade Iraq then it could be different story.
> 
> Russian forces invaded Ukraine from Belarus, Russian territory, and from the Black Sea on 24-02-22 and still feels the need to call in Chechen militias - this suggests that Russian forces are under stress even though Ukranian defenses are not much to write about. Russia have also deployed some of its experimental units in the war and made extensive use of both cruise missiles and ballistic missiles by now. Kyiv is not far from the border as well.
> 
> If Ukraine had good defenses...
> 
> 
> See above.
> 
> 
> See above.


USA and Co. used Iraqi Kurdistan , used Kuwait
and later turkey allowed them use turkey for attack

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## beast89

kingQamaR said:


> Would you ask the same at the people of Russians too? You clearly aren't able to differentiate between the government and its people. Let me spell it out to you, its Putin who wants this war. Not your average person from Russia or China. They have nothing to gain from this.


Pretty sure many russians care what the ukranians been doing to their brethren in east of the country

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## jamahir

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497853526881546241



The Ukranians should be thankful that the Russians are not killing them outright like the Americans and the Britishers and others of NATO do dearly as we all know.


----------



## S.Y.A

LeGenD said:


> Statistics do not tell how much of the military force is in good shape or can be diverted towards a theater of operations in view of financial situation and without compromising other security commitments.
> 
> NATO could also spare limited military force for Operation Iraqi Freedom in 2003: a total of 90,000 troops were involved in taking over Iraq on the ground in this war effort. Kuwait was the only country in the region which allowed NATO forces to invade Iraq from the ground. Baghdad is located in the center of Iraq and there are several Iraqi cities and locations which drew attention of the invading forces when coming from Kuwait. If Iran had allowed NATO forces to invade Iraq then it could be different story.
> 
> Russian forces invaded Ukraine from Belarus, Russian territory, and from the Black Sea on 24-02-22 and still feel the need to call in Chechen militias - this suggests that Russian forces are under stress even though Ukranian defenses are not much to write about. Russia have also deployed some of its experimental units in the war and made extensive use of both cruise missiles and ballistic missiles by now. Kyiv is not far from the border as well.
> 
> If Ukraine had good defenses...


are the russians not using enough CAS?


----------



## jamahir

Suriya said:


> India will become a near equal to China in coming decades.



Really man ? How ?


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497887799260991501

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## kingQamaR

Every photo or video I've seen today shows Ukrainian soldiers carrying British NLAW anti Armour weapons. They each seemed to have their own. This is going to be a real problem for Russia, and I hope west keep sending them anti air weapons and anti Armour weapons.

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## jamahir

HydNizam said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497885199174037505



LOL, yesterday the Ukranian government claimed that its military had killed 3500 Russians but now 2800 ?

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## beast89

kingQamaR said:


> Russia is even going to destroy China's economy because people are going to stop buying from you . Factories need buyers your leader is wise kept his mouth shut


lol wut

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## jamahir

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497887799260991501



I hope at least one of those Nazis has been captured to be put on trial. This trial should be live on YouTube to embarrass the NATO governments and their allies as to what kind of people they have been supporting.

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## Enigma SIG

kingQamaR said:


> Every photo or video I've seen today shows Ukrainian soldiers carrying British NLAW anti Armour weapons. They each seemed to have their own. This is going to be a real problem for Russia, and I hope west keep sending them anti air weapons and anti Armour weapons.


So when is the west gonna send some to Palestine or Kashmir?

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## Song Hong

US bomb Somalia. No one condemn.









U.S. Carries Out First Airstrike in Somalia Since August


The strike targeted Al Shabab militants who had attacked allied Somali security forces.




www.nytimes.com

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## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> Breaking news
> Thanks Putin
> Germany will increase defense spending to $80 billion minimum per year. New joint fighter jets with France, new drones from Israel, buying F35 as nuclear bombers, upgrading Typhoons.
> For this year, Germany will increase spending by $120 billion.
> That’s unprecedented.
> Will be lots of tanks, submarines.



It only took the destruction and occupation of a democracy in Europe for the Germans to realise the risk Europe has been living under all these years.

The Germans carry a lot of responsbility for what is happening in Ukraine right now - they greenlighted it by refusing to allow countries to provide defensive equipment to Ukraine and actively stopping sanctions against Russia - i can go on - but i think we can all see what role the Germans played in helping the Russians get the breathing space they needed to do this.


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## jamahir

kingQamaR said:


> Every photo or video I've seen today shows Ukrainian soldiers carrying British NLAW anti Armour weapons. They each seemed to have their own. This is going to be a real problem for Russia, and I hope west keep sending them anti air weapons and anti Armour weapons.



You are a mullah type, I have read your posts before so you are going to say such things. I am sure you support the "rebels" in Libya and Syria who are anything but Libyan and Syrian and have been dearly created and supported by Western governments which support you also hope for the Ukranian military.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497770262749659139


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## beast89

Enigma SIG said:


> So when is the west gonna send some to Palestine or Kashmir?


he's disgruntled salafi

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## OldTwilight

Dariush the Great said:


> Where are the heavy bombardments on Kiev, the capital city? No city in Ukraine has been bombarded properly by the Russians. It is a joke, even one missile slamming against a random building in Kiev will make huge breaking news headlines, this will not happen if there is a heavy bombing campaign by the Russians.
> 
> 
> Don't bet on it. Putin is pro Israel.


He is pro Puttin first ... but they will use any deal with Iran as barging cheap with the west ....

Russian see Iran as biggest potential danger in Ghafghaz , so they don't like a strong Iran at all


----------



## beast89

jamahir said:


> You are a mullah type, I have read your posts before so you are going to say such things. I am sure you support the "rebels" in Libya and Syria who are anything but Libyan and Syria and are dearly created and supported by Western governments which support you also hope for the Ukranian military.


yep the zio-usa-salafi axis mindset

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## Wergeland

beast89 said:


> lol wut


lol aziqbal 2.0

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## Suriya

Ukrainian fighting the fight of their lives. Youngsters &amp; veterans line up to join Ukrainian defense. Watch 
@gauravcsawant
's report from ground zero

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497888086420000772

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## RescueRanger

Enigma SIG said:


> So when is the west gonna send some to Palestine or Kashmir?

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## Hack-Hook

RescueRanger said:


> Ukrainians defending the town of Bucha have destroyed a strategic bridge in Kiev District to delay the advance of Russian troops before falling back towards the city center. *The town of Bucha is 22.18km from Kiev City Centre. *
> 
> View attachment 819241


building a bridge , take how much , 1 hour , 2 hour ?


----------



## Enigma SIG

Suriya said:


> Ukrainian fighting the fight of their lives. Youngsters &amp; veterans line up to join Ukrainian defense. Watch
> @gauravcsawant
> 's report from ground zero
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497888086420000772


How's this right and Kashmiri resistance wrong lol. Indian's always on the wrong side of history.



beast89 said:


> he's disgruntled salafi


By disgruntled you mean Britain doesn't allow to have jihadi sex slaves like they can do in those Arab countries they destroyed?

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## IceCold

F-22Raptor said:


> Many here will never admit it, but the US force of Desert Storm would roll todays Russian military.
> 
> Brutal honesty


If only wishes were horses...


----------



## atya

lastofthepatriots said:


> It’s not a joke, russian cam models are actually upset.


The real question is how do you know that. Chit chatting have you 😂

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## jamahir

Suriya said:


> Ukrainian fighting the fight of their lives. Youngsters &amp; veterans line up to join Ukrainian defense. Watch
> @gauravcsawant
> 's report from ground zero
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497888086420000772



Hi, can you also search and post some reporting from the Russian side ?


----------



## RescueRanger

Hack-Hook said:


> building a bridge , take how much , 1 hour , 2 hour ?


I can't believe you are asking that question.

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## Dalit

Suriya said:


> Ukrainian fighting the fight of their lives. Youngsters &amp; veterans line up to join Ukrainian defense. Watch
> @gauravcsawant
> 's report from ground zero
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497888086420000772



"This is Ram Kumar reporting from Kyiv."

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## kingQamaR

jamahir said:


> The Ukranians should be thankful that the Russians are not killing them outright like the Americans and the Britishers and others of NATO do dearly as we all know.



Ukrainian s are super lucky to avoided this crime so far. I wonder for how long as Russia war is falling apart 

I’m sure you have seen Russians military doctrine in action, is to kill off all. Like they did previously in Chechnya and Syria conflicts .


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## Suriya

Enigma SIG said:


> How's this right and Kashmiri resistance wrong lol. Indian's always on the wrong side of history.


Like Kashmir is an integral part of India. Every Kashmiri carries Indian passport.
While Ukraine is sovereign country since 1994.
Imagine India tries to undo the 1947 partition and invade Pakistan to create pre partition Akhand Bharat or United India once again.


----------



## kingQamaR

Enigma SIG said:


> So when is the west gonna send some to Palestine or Kashmir?



Why doesn’t Pakistan or Arabs not do sane then! We got them to ?


----------



## pkuser2k12



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## Enigma SIG

kingQamaR said:


> I’m sure you have seen Russians military doctrine in action, is to kill off all. Like they did previously in Chechnya and Syria conflicts .


American's killed what; a million in Iraq? How's Russia worse off in sheer numbers killed by the American war machine? Especially in Pakistan where American's policies cost us more than 75K lives.


----------



## RescueRanger

Al Jazeera News Presenter just embarrassed himself again by saying and I quote "Look at these images, these are middle class European people and not obvious middle eastern refugees, these are people you would live next to and now they are on the borders on the trains".

What he wanted to say was *"these are white people, not the filthy brown people from far away brown lands that we have bombed to shit". *

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## jamahir

kingQamaR said:


> Ukrainian s are super lucky to avoided this crime so far. I wonder for how long as Russia war is falling apart
> 
> I’m sure you have seen Russians military doctrine in action, is to kill off all. Like they did previously in Chechnya and Syria conflicts .



In Syria you say. Surely you mean against those head chopping, cat eating, human-heart eating "Syrian" "moderate" "rebels" aka Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood from all over the world who were and are being inserted by NATO into Syria in the tens of thousands right from early 2011 and whose injured members are being treated within Israeli border by the IDF ?


----------



## Enigma SIG

kingQamaR said:


> Why doesn’t Pakistan or Arabs not do sane then! We got them to ?


Is that a real question?


----------



## Song Hong

We need to send a thank you note for Russian operation. Much more humane

Kyiv now. Not even bomb power station









baghdad Gulf War 2.

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## Enigma SIG

Song Hong said:


> We need to send a thank you note for Russian operation. Much more humane
> 
> Kyiv now. Not even bomb power station
> 
> View attachment 819265
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> baghdad Gulf War 2.


They don't care about Kiev. They're just slicing territories, East, North and South.



Suriya said:


> Like Kashmir is an integral part of India.


Yawn, it is disputed; and the fact that you've killed over 80K Kashmiris tell's that it isn't.

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## Suriya

#BREAKING: Ukraine files case against Russia at the International Court of Justice at The Hague. “We request an urgent decision ordering Russia to cease military activity now and expect trials to start next week”, says the Ukrainian President.

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## jamahir

atya said:


> The real question is how do you know that. Chit chatting have you 😂



Ignore him. He has always been an aggressive, unevolved-villager type.


----------



## EasyNow

jamahir said:


> For the last 11 years at least aren't the people of Libya, Syria and Venezuela either trying to go back to their Socialist times or defend their Socialist societies ? Even the biased UNO has put in document that the Socialist system of war-torn Syria has better socio-economic facilities given to its citizens than South Asia including my own "Sixth largest economy in the world" India.



The decadence of Gaddafi is well known - hardly a socialist ideal. Assad's was not socialist either, both ran military dictatorships. And dictatorships can be very stable so yes some people want stability back.

But both examples prove that socialism is just a pretext for control as I said before.

Russian communism is no better - while the workers toiled, unimaginable wealth and power was concentrated in the hands of a few. This wealth now resides in the hands of a few oligarchs.

Russia's actions today are a return to conventional warfare that we thought the world had moved on from. While the West has been involved in almost every conflict - so has Russia.

Human history is littered with constant, unchecked warfare. The last few decades were as close to peace as the world has ever been - but the 'good guys' of socialism and theocracy will take us back to the old world again I'm afraid.




And please don't compare life in India with others. India is a 1.3b person, poor, undereducated, overpopulated, communal, multi ethnic, multi religious mess. It's not capitalism or democracies doing.

if India was socialist you would need to wipe out all religions for starters. Put child birth restrictions in place. And most painfully of all you would have to trust other Indians to administer your wealth. Does that sound like a recipe for success to you?


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## Dalit

Suriya said:


> Like Kashmir is an integral part of India. Every Kashmiri carries Indian passport.
> While Ukraine is sovereign country since 1994.
> Imagine India tries to undo the 1947 partition and invade Pakistan to create pre partition Akhand Bharat or United India once again.



Try it. We are not Ukraine, Iraq or Afghanistan.


----------



## Suriya

Enigma SIG said:


> Yawn, it is disputed; and the fact that you've killed over 80K Kashmiris tell's that it isn't.


That's Pakistani stand. Pakistan can call it disputed for ever, nothing changes the status of Kashmir being part of India. As they say possession is nine tenths of the law.
That figures are wrong, if civilians were killed, then in most cases by militants.

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## Dalit

Suriya said:


> #BREAKING: Ukraine files case against Russia at the International Court of Justice at The Hague. “We request an urgent decision ordering Russia to cease military activity now and expect trials to start next week”, says the Ukrainian President.



LOL Can I file a case against the US for countless murders?

Why hasn't India stood with US resolutions against Russia at thr UN?

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## EasyNow

Enigma SIG said:


> Tell that to Snowden lol.



Are you really going to compare freedom of speech, information between the West and Russia?


----------



## Paul2

thetutle said:


> Chinese will be looking to pick the corpse of the failing Russian empire and get its land back in outer Manchuria. The west does not hold and Chinese land. Unlike Russia.



The whole of CPC is salivating from this prospect, but not Xi himself


----------



## Dalit

Suriya said:


> That's Pakistani stand. Pakistan can call it disputed for ever, nothing changes the status of Kashmir being part of India. As they possession is nine tenths of the law.
> That figures are wrong, if civilians were killed, then in most cases by militants.



Indian occupied Kashmir is disputed through UN sanctioned resolution RSS troll.

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## Wergeland

Suriya said:


> Like Kashmir is an integral part of India. Every Kashmiri carries Indian passport.
> While Ukraine is sovereign country since 1994.
> Imagine India tries to undo the 1947 partition and invade Pakistan to create pre partition Akhand Bharat or United India once again.



Or that Afghans Turks and Punjabis tries to undo the legacy of British Empire and recreate Delhi Sultanate or Mughal Empire.

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## Dalit

RescueRanger said:


> Al Jazeera News Presenter just embarrassed himself again by saying and I quote "Look at these images, these are middle class European people and not obvious middle eastern refugees, these are people you would live next to and now they are on the borders on the trains".
> 
> What he wanted to say was *"these are white people, not the filthy brown people from far away brown lands that we have bombed to shit". *



The hypocrisy of the West is glaring.

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## Wergeland

Song Hong said:


> We need to send a thank you note for Russian operation. Much more humane
> 
> Kyiv now. Not even bomb power station
> 
> View attachment 819265
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> baghdad Gulf War 2.




Its hilarious
Basically Russia could have carpet bombed Ukraine like America did in Vietnam and Iraq. But the Russians choose not to.

In fact if Russians wanted to they could drop a single nuclear bomb in outskirts of a major Ukrainian city and the war would be over.

Russian do lot do this because Ukraineians are their own brotherly people.

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## kingQamaR

jamahir said:


> You are a mullah type, I have read your posts before so you are going to say such things. I am sure you support the "rebels" in Libya and Syria who are anything but Libyan and Syrian and have been dearly created and supported by Western governments which support you also hope for the Ukranian military.



You Indians do fear Islam a lot lol 

You should be Concentrating on your own community doctrine of Indian Muslims which is for the men to drop there pants and run off. When it comes defending there society unlike the Ukrainian fighting back. I now see why your lot struggle with fighting back. I do remembered your faith you telling me it’s communism hahaha , see you in Kiev then lol

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## hussain0216

thetutle said:


> Pakistan is not an ally fo the US. Never was and will not be. They found you useful in the Cold War, they found you useful in 2001. They wouldn't even sell you F16 in the 1990's after you paid for them. Sorry if you thought US was your ally. You were mistaken.
> 
> US does not have any Arab allies either. it only has puppets. The only country that is muslim that is a US ally is Albania and Turkey. Both treaty allies. They rest are all puppets or enemies.



Why do you think we fcuked them in Afghanistan


----------



## dBSPL

The world's largest transport aircraft An-225 was destroyed by the Russian Army.

There was only one example of the An-225 in operational.

Rest in peace Mriya. You were the darling of thousands of aviation enthusiasts. We will not forget you. 😿

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## S.Y.A

Wergeland said:


> Its hilarious
> Basically Russia could have carpet bombed Ukraine like America did in Vietnam and Iraq. But the Russians choose not to.
> 
> In fact if Russians wanted to they could drop a single nuclear bomb in outskirts of a major Ukrainian city and the war would be over.
> 
> Russian do lot do this because Ukraineians are their own brotherly people.


the amrikis killed a family, even when they were leaving, in afghanistan, and no one was punished. russians dropped bombs in syria and killed countless people. not one of them cares about brown people.


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## hussain0216

I was largely apathetic to this conflict, I've never had reason to hate Ukrainians outside the usual perception of eastern Europeans being racists




But most sensible people understood the difference in the way white people are treated as opposed to black people, Africans, Asians, Muslims


Seeing the response to this conflict in Europe makes me really hate the Ukrainians


I think a good dose of dead white people is exactly the medicine these warmongers deserve

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## Hack-Hook

RescueRanger said:


> I can't believe you are asking that question.


these bridges can tolerate up to 120t of weight .









todays armies engineering build floating bridges in matter of hours even less

army engineers in Iran built a floating bridge over Karoon river at the time of war with Iraq in city of Ahvaz ,(at the time there was 4 bridge over the river , one very old called white bridge and built more than 44 years before war (today only used for pedestrian ) one for rail road ( called black bridge and built 51 years before war) transporting heavy millitary vehicle another one built 10 years before war and used for rail road and called Choharshir bridge )
there was a newer bridge called Naderi Bridge which was built 6 year before war but was not designed for heavy military vehicle .
army built a bridge on Karoon River , the bridge were used by armed force and people at the time of war, the bridge were used about 10 years after the war


----------



## EasyNow

Iñigo said:


> a major war in Europe that could end in nuclear confrontation
> 
> The Situation was:
> 
> (1) The most colossal, brutal and deadly military empire the face of the earth has ever known, which in recent years has unscrupulously sent 3-4 million to hell and displaced several million from their homes, or directly or subcontracted chaos, terror and destruction
> 
> (2) With an imperial oligarchy that suffers from a rabid, deep, pathological and incurable Russophobia, which permeates everything from top to bottom
> 
> (3) An unstoppable trend of encircling, threatening and harassing Russia, and
> 
> (4) More than 20 years of unsuccessfully trying to communicate with a bunch of narcissists, cynics, rabid ideological fanatics and little children trapped in delusional fantasies. This complete inability to communicate is frightening. Their interests, desires and even their ultimate sentimental and/or cultural whims are sacred. And the interests and lives of others are worthless
> 
> If, for example, 1000 shells a day fall on the Russians in the Don ... The West shrugs its shoulders, and so on. If they are reminded of past promises ... the secretary of state literally shrugged his shoulders in front of minister Lavrov and said "... are/were words", and only failed to add: and we use words to deceive, that's why the Russians tired of lies and deception wanted a written agreement
> 
> The Russian ruling class with its grave, unpleasant and rational decision has broken a trend that was inexorably on a "collision course" as we sailors say. It was either war now or a worse war in the future.



I understand thanks


----------



## Inception-06

dBSPL said:


> The world's largest transport aircraft An-225 was destroyed by the Russian Army.
> 
> There was only one example of the An-225 in operational.
> 
> Rest in peace Mrya. You were the darling of thousands of aviation enthusiasts. We will not forget you. 😿


In had the opportunity to meet and talk to the crew of this aircraft some years ago, when they were guest’s of a Hotel in Berlin. They said many times, they love peace and we all are Brothers, they hand shaked me many times. Also I had good Russian friends from St. Petersburg who meet me us monthly the same attitude. I hope peace is not far in the next days for both countries. Of course I condemn the Invasion, there should have been a dicplomatic way to resolve the issues. Putin has lost more then he could gain ever.

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## jamal18

S.Y.A said:


> the amrikis killed a family, even when they were leaving, in afghanistan, and no one was punished. russians dropped bombs in syria and killed countless people. not one of them cares about brown people.


The Americans killed one million Iraqis due to their sanctions before the first bullet was fired in the war.

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## Wergeland

S.Y.A said:


> the amrikis killed a family, even when they were leaving, in afghanistan, and no one was punished. russians dropped bombs in syria and killed countless people. not one of them cares about brown people.



Americans and Russian er equally horrible when it comes to war crimes. Vietnam was no different than Iraq or Afghanistan.

The biggest mistake is Muslims not acquiring enough nuclear weapon to be able to defend themselves from foreign agresssion.

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## Englishman

Wergeland said:


> Americans and Russian er equally horrible when it comes to war crimes. Vietnam was ko different than Iraq or Afghanistan.
> 
> The biggest mistake is Muslims not acquiring enough nuclear weapon to be able to defend themselves from foreign agresssion.



Absolutely

Iran needs nukes ASAP (their POV)
Israel must destroy Iran before they get nukes (their POV)


----------



## Enigma SIG

Suriya said:


> That's Pakistani stand.


You learnt this in RSS High?


----------



## beijingwalker

PETER HITCHENS: The West acts tough with Russia because we’re just too feeble to stand up to our real enemy… China​








West acts tough with Russia as we're too feeble to stand up to China


PETER HITCHENS: I'm told I am supporting the invasion by saying we provoked it. But if I warn a child that, if he annoys a wasp, it will sting him, am I supporting the wasp?




www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497882691135410176Some neutralized Russian vehicles, around Sumy. It looks like the vehicles were attacked from top.


----------



## jamahir

@EasyNow, replying to you in 'Whatever' as it will be off-topic here.



kingQamaR said:


> You Indians do fear Islam a lot lol
> 
> You should be Concentrating on your own community doctrine of Indian Muslims which is for the men to drop there pants and run off. When it comes defending there society unlike the Ukrainian fighting back. I now see why your lot struggle with fighting back. I do remembered your faith you telling me it’s communism hahaha , see you in Kiev then lol



Why don't we see you and @lastofthepatriots and @F-22Raptor in Kiev, fighting against the evil Russkies ?



Wergeland said:


> On the one hand youre like «west, freedom, bla bla» the next second when some uses their freedom youre like «why dont you go to north korea». Now thats truly pathetic.



I have been told that a few times by my Indian right-winger countrypeople here on PDF. 



Wergeland said:


> Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.



Absolutely ! The progressives and the sensible people in India have been bashed on the head by the ruling right-wingers using excuses of patriotism saying the progressives are "anti-national", "seditious" and "unpatriotic" when in reality the progressives are actually the real patriots who want the inhuman, non-empathetic and the oppressive nature of socio-economic and political system in India to be replaced with rational and empathetic ones. Eight years of right-wing rule in India now and it's not like for example the farmers have stopped suiciding because of the 3000-year-old extremely Capitalist socio-economic system here.

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## kingQamaR

Enigma SIG said:


> Is that a real





Enigma SIG said:


> American's killed what; a million in Iraq? How's Russia worse off in sheer numbers killed by the American war machine? Especially in Pakistan where American's policies cost us more than 75K lives.



You did understand 

I have never defending Iraq Afghanistan invasion wars by west stop dropping that it in. On our Pakistan war deaths, that’s weak leadership for you they are responsible for it. I was right on Russian doctrine they have deliberately bombed Chechnya and Syria cities to rubble with people living in the cities at the time . I really do not want get in to numbers game let’s just agree to disagree on who is a bigger killer


----------



## Inception-06

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497882691135410176Some neutralized Russian vehicles, around Sumy. It looks like the vehicles were attacked from top.



Sunny is becoming a hornet net of resistance, the Russians seem to be clueless.

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## Wergeland

thetutle said:


> If you dont respect and appreciate your freedoms in a free country, I will always encourage you to use your freedom and go live in a tyranny and leave space for someone that actually wants freedom. Like some Ukrainian family to come and take your place.



Its appaling that youre shouting «freedom» and the next moment wanting to restrict someones freedom of speech, which is nothing but a oxymoron.

Either there is freedom of speech or there isnt. In a democracy you are allowed to criticise your government and yes even democracy itself. If you dont understand this basic concept then i am afraid you are simply a authoritarian who hide behind «democracy, freedom» mumbo jumbo, without knowing what it stands for.

So may i please ask you to remove yourself from a democratic place and leave to a country where you are NOT allowed to criticize the system.

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## jamahir

thetutle said:


> If you dont respect and appreciate your freedoms in a free country, I will always encourage you to use your freedom and go live in a tyranny and leave space for someone that actually wants freedom. Like some Ukrainian family to come and take your place.



The tyranny North Korea provides free housing, free healthcare and free education to its citizens whereas in the leader of the "Free world" :

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## dBSPL

Englishman said:


> Absolutely
> 
> Iran needs nukes ASAP (their POV)
> Israel must destroy Iran before they get nukes (their POV)

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## CrazyZ

Erebus said:


> This clown (IK) has made a mockery of his country everywhere except China (maybe). He can't even get his group of ministers from speaking out of turn and humiliating his country more.
> 
> But we are digressing. The topic here is about the crisis in Ukraine. And yes Zelensky is much more of a man than IK will ever manage to be.


Zelensky is an idiot. He has ruined his country. Ukraine will look like Afghanistan if this keeps up. Pakistan is in much better shape today then when IK took office despite being attacked by a larger aggressor......Zelensky can not say this for Ukraine.

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## Cryptic_Mafia

Enigma SIG said:


> You learnt this in RSS High?



i hear they have a good education system...mitaaar get up every morning and get a msg on whatsapp from their Lord Modi g and he teaches them everything! ohh and he only talks facts no bs sir!

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## Mugen

RescueRanger said:


> Al Jazeera News Presenter just embarrassed himself again by saying and I quote "Look at these images, these are middle class European people and not obvious middle eastern refugees, these are people you would live next to and now they are on the borders on the trains".
> 
> What he wanted to say was *"these are white people, not the filthy brown people from far away brown lands that we have bombed to shit". *


Racism is intrinsic to human nature sadly. The only real way to counter is through acquiring power. Unless brown people as a race rise above, they will always be bottom feeders and at the mercy of others. And when I say power, I don't just mean military might, power is multi-dimensional.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

RescueRanger said:


> Al Jazeera News Presenter just embarrassed himself again by saying and I quote "Look at these images, these are middle class European people and not obvious middle eastern refugees, these are people you would live next to and now they are on the borders on the trains".
> 
> What he wanted to say was *"these are white people, not the filthy brown people from far away brown lands that we have bombed to shit". *



Ouch ...

Really feel sorry for *Palestinians *and *Kashmiri Muslims* and also the *Iraqi *and *Libyan* people and specially* Syrian* who suffered tremendous war like crimes

Just the other day I found there are still people in Syria Living in Tents in middle of Snow (Like which falls in Murree Pakistan), they don't have any donation coming in for infrastructure repair , just living away life in tents 
Children just playing on snow piles , no schools or parks that is life

 The world chooses whose loss is publicized in media , most of Muslim city's cause is shoved into Middle east segment or Page 56 of newspaper , or tiny little square box on news paper

The goal here is to *"HIDE"* the suffering, as people watch football game or basketball game. Or watch a movie and enjoy their mean on other side of world

Majority of *these* European Nations , their delegates walk out early when Muslim leaders talk about Palestine or Kashmir or other Muslim cities , it is fact , instead of listening they simply "walk-away" and the speeches are listened by may be 10-20 delegates out of 170 , because they think it is the same *"RANT"* about Kashmir or Palestine or Iraq or Libya or Syria

Here it is *FULL HEADLINE* , front page on *CNN* and *BBC* and social media
The objective is to get the story in front of everyone so their is desire to object this

_*The image of the Syrian Girl sitting in middle of rubble haunts me and that child that appeared dead on the shore of Turkish waters*_

The media outlet is almost like an extended hand of the Military Psych-ops for west, they pick and choose how much of war they will distribute in media

In ideal word suffering is suffering and loss of life is loss of life but that is not the world we live in the world we live in , has political objectives and motives above , what is visible before us on media

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## RescueRanger

thetutle said:


> If you dont respect and appreciate your freedoms in a free country, I will always encourage you to use your freedom and go live in a tyranny and leave space for someone that actually wants freedom. Like some Ukrainian family to come and take your place.


Less of this please, personal attacks are not allowed. @LeGenD please review this message.

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## Signalian

Russians using T-72, T-80, BMP-2, BTR-3, Mi-8, Ka-52, TOS-1 and BM-21 MLRS, Pantsir S-1, MTLB. 

Any more weapons sighted?

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## monitor

#Ukraine: The Ukrainian Army used a Skif/Stugna-P ATGM to take out multiple Russian tanks in Demydiv, near #Kyiv. It is claimed that 3 were knocked out.

Observe that the Ukrainian side have diverted systems originally intended for export for domestic use; Arabic can be seen.


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## Brainsucker

Wergeland said:


> Americans and Russian er equally horrible when it comes to war crimes. Vietnam was no different than Iraq or Afghanistan.
> 
> The biggest mistake is Muslims not acquiring enough nuclear weapon to be able to defend themselves from foreign agresssion.



No, the biggest mistake is Muslim countries not acquiring highly advanced technology that make them matter. No Muslim countries today have an ambition to chase China, not to mention United States in term of technology and industry. Having nuclear weapon won't make you suddenly super power. You still need the vehicles that can bring your mass destruction weapon to your enemy's cities. Like Bomber, ICBM, Submarines, Hypersonic Missiles, etc. Without them, your nuclear warehouse will only become the primary target of enemy missiles.

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## LeGenD

@Wergeland
@thetutle

Let us focus on the topic on hand. Thanks.

In general terms, learn to respect the country where you live and build your life.

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## dBSPL

Russian helis near Mozyr. Pro-Ukranian sources that posted the video.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497904137131991041

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## pkuser2k12



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## jhungary

*Foreword*

Okay, so, I’ve got an email from a PDF member ask me to comment on the Russian-Ukrainian war in 2022. I am not going to say who, but the same member asked me to comment on the US withdraw from Afghanistan last year, I wasn’t about to comment on that as I see no military value to talk about a military withdrawal. But I think this war has a lot of military value people can learn from and this is the first conventional war the Russia fought post Soviet Union, so I am going to give you a no-BS assessment on the situation

For those who know me, you know what I do for a living (Or what I used to do), and for those who don’t know, I was a former US Army Infantry Officer, served 2 tours in the middle east. And I like to comment all things military.

This post will look at Military situation in Ukraine, and I may also answer some of the most commonly asked question. But majority this will be like the Military Report I used to write.



*Russian invasion of Ukraine, 2022.



Introduction*

On 0500 Europe Eastern time, 24th February 2022, Russian start a special military operation. The Russian invaded Ukraine with 3 Arms, over the North via Belarus , Over the south from Crimea Occupied Territories, and Over the East via Donetsk and Luhansk. Russian force are said to be between 180,000 to 200,000 Ukrainian force are said to be between 210,000-240,000

*Tactical Consideration for Ukraine*

Ukraine has 3 Tactical Considerations


Defend of Capital Kyiv
Defend of the Western Corridor (From Brest to Odessa) to keep the logistic afloat
Avoid being capitulation of government.

*Tactical Consideration for Russia*

There are also 3 tactical considerations for Russia

Occupied Kyiv
Locate and Secure the current Ukrainian government
Install a Pro-Russian Government

*Strategic Consideration for Ukraine*

There is only one, repel the Russian Invasion

*Strategic Consideration for Russia*

There are 2 strategic considerations for Russia.


Occupy the country
Overturn the Government of Ukraine

*Current Situation in Ukraine*

As of 27 February, 2022 5pm AEST, Russia have launched a 3 pronged attack, A north arm attack across the Belarusian Border. That force is currently surrounding Kyiv. Another prong is from the south, Now currently outside Kherson, and the Amphibous element are landed in both Odessa and Mariupol, and the third prong is attacking from the East, surrounding Kharkiv and Sumy, and also launching a double envelopment on Mariupol


Refer to this map here






*My Appraisement*

First of all, this is the fourth day of war; the first thing to notice is that none of the Ukraine City has fallen to Russia. That is surprising for me, because I am expecting some heavy fighting in the Eastern and Southern city, and with overwhelming infantry, air and artillery support, Russia should have been able to at least secure Kharkiv or Odessa which is closest to Russian starting point.

Another issue I have found is that the land Russia travel is quite short. Considering Soviet Armor assault usually travel 10 km per hour, which mean by now, they should have covered more than 450KM (15 hours a day, with 9 hours rest) Judging by the map, there are no where near that 450km limit.

Now going back to General Detail, Russia attack along the North/South and East axis, preceded by Missile Strike (approximately 200 cruise missile was launched) follow by CAS and Helicopter gunship strike. With Armor column closing the gap and Airborne unit secure important objective (such as Antonov Airport).

Now, this is different than conventional US attack where US would launch a single spear Armor attack supported by gunship and CAS, which tell me 3 things.


Russia is in a hurry
Russia is try to maximize territorial gain
Russia is splitting their command and support structure.

So what does that mean? First attack with 3 prongs 100 of kilometre apart would mean they have separated their logistic zone and support zone, which mean each prong would have their own staging area, logistic and resupply element, air/ground support element. In other words, the invading force is diverse.

This could mean good thing and bad things for Ukrainian. Good thing is, Russia force is diluted, instead of facing a giant fist of 50,000-70,000 troops, Ukrainian is facing 3 front with 20,000 troop each, diluted troop concentration is susceptible to Ukrainian harassment, plus, these troop are supposed to secure key city and infrastructure. Which call into doubt whether it is doable for them to work, not to mention the risk of being defeated in detail, which if one arm failed, the whole operation gone kaput (unless there are reinforcement, which I would assume)

The Bad thing is, the general area Ukraine is focusing on is going to be huge. And as a general rules, if you defend every inch of your country, you defend nothing.

The second thing I noticed is that if the Russian sole goal is to relieve Ukrainian government, then they would have done what we had done during Iraq war, we concentrate our effort to go into Baghdad and secure the government and then fan out and secure the individual objective (like TV station, airport, port, village and so on) But Russian did not do that, suggesting their motive is territorial gain. Ie capture and occupied as many land as you can.

On the other hand, Ukraine seems to be playing a territorial defence role, where each element was assigned a sector to protect, I personally will not choose this except for Kyiv, if I am outgun and outnumber, I will choose a more dynamic defence rather than a static defence, organise your Brigade into mobile brigade, conduct hit and run on the Russian invading route. That way I can protect more with fewer troops. But then I will have to concede that in order to do that, Ukraine intelligence must be up to the task, maybe they think their intelligence is not up to the game? Or maybe they prefer to defend this way? I don’t know.

Another observation from me is that Ukraine process a strong will to fight, so it is highly unlikely that Ukraine will do an Afghanistan. People are staying there, most likely fight to their death.

*My Assessment*

My first assessment is Russia highly probable underestimate the Ukrainian defence. They either anticipate Ukrainian defence will crumble once they encounter Russian troop, or they have expected a lower capability to hold back Russian Troop. Form the fact that Russia willing to split their operation into 3, it said they expected light resistance

Also I would say Russia failed to capture many first day objective, Kyiv, Odessa, Kharkiv should be the first day objective on the first phase line, all three cities still in Ukrainian hand as of 27 Feb. 22, and I would say Russian schedule is between 48-72 hours late. By now the 3 prongs should have converge over Kyiv by now. The key for Russian operation is speed, as Putin put it, Russia are there to liberate Ukrainian brother and “Demilitarize and Denazify the Neo Nazi regime in Ukraine” and emphasis on the objective being military, not civilian, which mean what Putin is selling is a Crimea style take over. And it won’t work if this operation is taking a long time, because if it take any longer than 2 or even 3 weeks, people will start asking question why the people in Ukraine has not risen up yet

Also, key infrastructure in Ukraine is still on, things like electricity, telephone, internet, TV station and Radio station, which mean Russia have not either destroy/taken over them yet, which also tell you that Russia is behind their schedule, those things should have been targeted within the first 48 hours. Controlling information should be Russian first day objective too.

Another assessment from me is the Russian pre-invasion bombardment is not effective. You can see Ukraine still able to sorties after day 4. As I said many time here before, missile cannot be used to disable enemy infrastructure. By this point, Russia should have obtain complete air superiority because their battle plan depends on Air Mobile Troop, and helicopter is prone to Anti-Air attacks.

*My Prediction*

First thing first, I don’t believe Ukraine can survive this war, the number from Russia is just too many, too close, there will be heroic defences, but if we took the entire Russia might and compare to Ukrainian might, there are absolutely no contest. Russia currently are using approximately 1/8 to 1/10 of the national force, which mean even if Ukraine be able to fend off the first wave, this 200,000 Russian soldier currently surrounding Ukraine. There are no way they will survive the next, and the next and the next.

On the other hand, how much Russia are willing to give is another issue, because this is not a popular war in Russia, and all the factor give me the impression that Russia has seriously underestimating Ukraine warfighting capability. As this drag on, this is going to be bad for Russia. Yes, theoretically, Russia can send enough soldier to flood Ukraine, but can they do it without public support is another matter, because anything after this 200,000 soldier will require another mobilisation, by then the public would ask why, if this is just a Crimea style take over. It will create problem for Russian draft, and it may also have wide range of protest and push back from Public.

Another issue is we called “War Chest” ie, how much money you can use to wage war. Keep in mind, Russia economy performed quite badly these last 2 years due to COVID, which mean the economy is not going to be good, now with Western sanction, it will further hamper Russia ability to raise money for war, and without money, you get no replacement part, you can’t pay your soldier etc and that will create a whole other morale problem. Current estimation on Russian war chest is 60 billions. Which will probably last them 2 months. After that, money have to some how be raised to continue the war. But that is before Western Sanction kicks in. So the current war chest for Russia is unknown, as Western countries had frozen Russian Asset and cease their debt raising capability and had been kicked out SWIFT.

On the other hand, Ukraine is currently sitting on a better situation than what I expect, or what NATO expected. NATO just announced they will send in Missile, SAM and other supplies to Ukraine 3 days after the war, which suggested that the initial NATO estimation is that Ukraine should have folded within the first 3 days. So no doubt 4 days passed and Russia still has not gain any meaningful ground.

The tradition Russia tactics would suggest a massive bombardment and carpet bombing to city center and military staging point to accelerate their time table, but I seriously doubt they are going to do that, after all these “Brother” speech, because once you send in Tu-95 or Tu-160, then Russian would have no doubt that this is going to target their “brother” This will alter the public narrative.

All in all, as with any invasion, the 7th day is the major point, that’s when your initial LogPak (Logistic Package) runs out, by then they should have been able to set up Forward Arming and Refuelling Point (FARP). Now this is important, because by day 7, they should have set it up beyond the first phase line (after Kyiv) if they still have not taken Kyiv and other objective, then the Russian have to set up their FARP behind their line, which mean they will need to retreat from their position back to FRAP to refuel and rearm, which mean it will further hamper with the time table.

Another issue I can foresee is that looking at the last 4 days, we probably anticipating a insurgency campaign even after Russian conquered entire Ukraine, which in itself is a long time away, I don’t see Ukrainian force drop their weapon and flee across the country, and that is very important, it show us that Ukrainian have the will to fight back. Now, what happened after Kyiv felt or Zelenskyy is captured is unknown, that may hamper the Ukrainian will but that remained to be seen

*Common Question

Why NATO is not sending boots on the ground?*

NATO direct involvement is a non-starter, because it will play into Putin’s narrative, which would mean the public will support Putin perspective more than they have now. And as I said, Public support is a key to Putin’s operation. Especially if Putin needed a next round of mobilisation.

So, any NATO boots on the ground will expand the war, which make it complicated, and if war expanded, Ukraine will be lost anyway (as said before I don’t think Ukraine can withstand a total invasion from Russia) and the battle will spill over to other NATO member, namely Latvia, Estonia, Poland and Romania.

And Russia will most likely resort to Nuclear Weapon if this happen because there are no way Russia can in turn survive an NATO onslaught

*What can Ukraine do to win the war?*

Well, the chance of Ukrainians winning this conventional fight is slim, very slim, it’s about 10% chances, it is that slim. But it’s not undoable.

The first thing Ukraine need to do is to keep dragging this on, the longer this war drag on, the longer Russia support aboard, most importantly China, will wean, the Chinese are not that keen on a war between Russia and Ukraine to begin with, as Ukraine is a important strategic partner with China, Chinese first and second carrier are serious Ukraine input and Chinese aviation was helped by Antonov a lot to develop their home grown fighter jet, which mean the longer the war drag on, the bigger of the mess it create, and this won’t go well to China.

Another thing is that as the war drag on, more and more Russia will suffer from the sanction the west have just dished out. Which mean it hamper Russia material and warfighting capability, that inturn interrupt equipment replacement and resupply, to issue such as food, water, fuel and transport?

And finally, Ukraine can make this war as unpleasant to Russian as possible. It wont affect the soldier side because Russian Army is a professional force, but home support largely depends on this is a clean, quick operation, and if Ukrainian can make this war unclean and slow, this will help alter Public Opinion.

*Would this war achieve what Russian or Putin want?*

No. It will not achieve what Putin want In term of Political and Strategic objective. In fact, it will do the opposite.

First of all, the Casus Belli for Putin is in two. 1.) Ukraine permanently bar form NATO. 2.) NATO stops their eastern expansion.

While Ukraine can be sway into not joining NATO, but NATO will not stop expanding just because Russia said so. In fact, this war will give the country on the fence more stacks to join NATO after seeing the naked aggression of what Russia will do to its perceived enemy. Country like Moldova, Sweden and Finland will probably look at NATO membership to ensure their own survival, BECAUSE of this Russian invasion.

Second of all, this is a no gain operation, because the best outcome for Russia to hope for is a pre-2014 Ukraine, that is pro-Russia, since NATO never had Ukraine (or even intent to have them) which mean this is going to be a status quo, which mean the best Russia can hope for is a draw, and that is if Ukraine did not raise an insurgency and Russia survive this round of Sanction. So literally any other option for Russia is a lost.

*Will China invade Taiwan now that they see NATO Inactiveness on Ukraine issue?*

Highly unlikely. First of all, China and Taiwan did not share a land border. Which mean whatever timetable China on invading and regain Taiwan is based on their Naval And Air capability, and at this point, China is yet to achieve neither capability to launch an invasion to do so.

Second, China is not Russia, Russia economy is almost bottomed out, sanction on Russia does not really work that good because Russia economy has been stagnate since 2013. Chinese Economy on the other hand, depend largely on European and American market. Sanction on the scale of the one that Russia having is going to reek devastation to Chinese economy. Think about it, if China cannot trade with US, EU and country like Australia, Japan and South Korea, who can they trade with? Africa is not a nice or even tempting market and Middle East are traditional US allies.

Which mean Sanction would be more than enough to deter China from invading Taiwan, at least for now.

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## Signalian

RescueRanger said:


> This video shows a convoy consisting of a T-64 Tank and armored vehicles towing an artillery piece belonging to the Ukrainian military in Kiev overnight:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497291709247627274


Ukrainian T-80 Oplot Vs Russian T-90 would have been an interesting duel. Perhaps T-64 Bulat Vs T-72 B3.

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## Patriot forever

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497901723716923392
This is a very important aspect of warfare. 
Pakistan army clearly needs to work on it in an organised manner. 

In any major conflict our populace is the most retarded and with the amount of snakes we have within us it's hard not to imagine the impact.

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## gambit

Hack-Hook said:


> by the way if Poland allow England and Germany ship weapons to Ukraine from their land that's hardly called neutral


If Iran support Russia, Iran can always attack Germany in support of Russia. Other than that, you have to live with the laws as is.


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## Wergeland

Brainsucker said:


> No, the biggest mistake is Muslim countries not acquiring highly advanced technology that make them matter. No Muslim countries today have an ambition to chase China, not to mention United States in term of technology and industry. Having nuclear weapon won't make you suddenly super power. You still need the vehicles that can bring your mass destruction weapon to your enemy's cities. Like Bomber, ICBM, Submarines, Hypersonic Missiles, etc. Without them, your nuclear warehouse will only become the primary target of enemy missiles.



You are right.

But in order to be able to have a environment that makes it possible to become technologically and economically advanced, you first have to secure your borders. Or else you simply will be destoyed before youre able to become a threat.

That why nuclear weapon is so cruicial.

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## Brainsucker

monitor said:


> #Ukraine: The Ukrainian Army used a Skif/Stugna-P ATGM to take out multiple Russian tanks in Demydiv, near #Kyiv. It is claimed that 3 were knocked out.
> 
> Observe that the Ukrainian side have diverted systems originally intended for export for domestic use; Arabic can be seen.



Well, I remember that ATGM could destroyed Israel's and United States' Tanks too. But they are repairable. So what happen in Demydiv is destroyed beyond repair or not?


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## RescueRanger

Signalian said:


> Ukrainian T-80 Oplot Vs Russian T-90 would have been an interesting duel. Perhaps T-64 Bulat Vs T-72 B3.


There have been some surreal scenes shared on social media. It is really interesting to note that the majority of kit we have seen so far has been old or knackered Russian kit, which leads me to suspect that Moscow hasn't played all her cards just yet.

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## thetutle

jamahir said:


> The tyranny North Korea provides free housing, free healthcare and free education to its citizens whereas in the leader of the "Free world" :



Homelessness in america is a lifestyle choice.

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## Signalian

gambit said:


> If Iran support Russia, Iran can always attack Germany in support of Russia. Other than that, you have to live with the laws as is.


Can NATO bog down Russia through Ukraine in this war till Russian economy is drained out as the war prolongs ?

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## beijingwalker

US TV claims that this Ukraine invasion was "made in China"

This invasion in many ways was made in China​

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## Signalian

RescueRanger said:


> There have been some surreal scenes shared on social media. It is really interesting to note that the majority of kit we have seen so far has been old or knackered Russian kit, which leads me to suspect that Moscow hasn't played all her cards just yet.


Media reports usage of missiles but no armored duels between tanks and other armored vehicles. I didn't see any reports on dog fights or BVR combat.

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## reflecthofgeismar

Signalian said:


> Ukrainian T-80 Oplot Vs Russian T-90 would have been an interesting duel. Perhaps T-64 Bulat Vs T-72 B3.



No, Russians still have problem with long rod penetrators bc of the length they can use in autoloader but Ukrainians have very old 125mm 2A46 derivate (KBA-3) and no modern rounds for them.
They could have go to former Eastern block countries (Slovakia and Poland) who are still producing higher quality barrels and better rounds, but they didn't.

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## Signalian

Any report on usage of drones/UCAVs by any side ?



reflecthofgeismar said:


> No, Russians still have problem with long rod penetrators bc of the length they can use in autoloader but Ukrainians have very old 125mm 2A46 derivate (KBA-3) and no modern rounds for them.
> They could have go to former Eastern block countries (Slovakia and Poland) who are still producing higher quality barrels and better rounds, but they didn't.


NATO is sending ATGMs and SAMs to Ukraine. Training on such systems for Ukrainian crews is another matter.

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## reflecthofgeismar

Signalian said:


> Russians using T-72, T-80, BMP-2, BTR-3, Mi-8, Ka-52, TOS-1 and BM-21 MLRS, Pantsir S-1, MTLB.
> 
> Any more weapons sighted?



Russians don't use BTR-3, except it's captured. ^^
For tanks I saw only T-72B3M and T-80BVM - what is funny, I thought they only wanna use the T-80 series in the REALLY cold regions.

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## jhungary

I will be here most of today, and then I will check back on Day 7 to answer some question.

As I said, I will only discuss military issue, if you have a question on Military Issue, feel free to ask, if you want to comment on other political stuff, then please don't bother, cause I am not into dick measure competition.

Quote me if you want to ask anything.

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## RescueRanger

Signalian said:


> Media reports usage of missiles but no armored duels between tanks and other armored vehicles. I didn't see any reports on dog fights or BVR combat.


Same, I've seen one video which seems very dubious of a Russian helicopter being chased and engaged by an alleged Ukrainian Mi-24. There was some short videos of Russian BTRs exchanging fire on the outskirts of kharkiv, but the vast majority of footage has been use of either NLAWs or UCAVs against armor.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

1- Russia will take all the land one side of River all the way to sea port
2- If Ukraine does not accepts the fate , Russians will take more

Ukraine will be made militarily impotent , most likely Russia will aim to destroy 95% of Ukraine air force and airports









As part of peace offering Kiev will be returned to Ukraine if Ukraine accepts this new border


Russia and NATO will agree *1 small win for Nato the can blow up one oil depot* to claim victory in their press before Ukraine will be split, NATO will show case this one win as collaboration of their vast experience and tactical knowledge and claim Russia fears them and this is what lead Russia to discuss peace

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## Brainsucker

jhungary said:


> I will be here most of today, and then I will check back on Day 7 to answer some question.
> 
> As I said, I will only discuss military issue, if you have a question on Military Issue, feel free to ask, if you want to comment on other political stuff, then please don't bother, cause I am not into dick measure competition.
> 
> Quote me if you want to ask anything.


Alright, welcome back.


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## Signalian

RescueRanger said:


> Same, I've seen one video which seems very dubious of a Russian helicopter being chased and engaged by an alleged Ukrainian Mi-24. There was some short videos of Russian BTRs exchanging fire on the outskirts of kharkiv, but the vast majority of footage has been use of either NLAWs or UCAVs against armor.


Ghost of Kiev flying Mig-29 who has reportedly shot down 6 Russian fighter aircraft in 30 hours making him Europe's first ace fighter pilot since World War 2 ? Rumor only ?

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## pakpride00090

jhungary said:


> I will be here most of today, and then I will check back on Day 7 to answer some question.
> 
> As I said, I will only discuss military issue, if you have a question on Military Issue, feel free to ask, if you want to comment on other political stuff, then please don't bother, cause I am not into dick measure competition.
> 
> Quote me if you want to ask anything.



Why has Russian performance been so poor ? I am watching videos of their equipment and troops being destroyed and humiliated respectively , on reddit. 

What do you make of that ? Do you think there is a possibility RU can fail in achieving its objectives given covert and overt support given to Ukrainians by the west ?

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## xyx007

Beny Karachun said:


> Idiotic low IQ ape, this president has more balls, is more honest and is smarter than any leader your country has ever had.
> 
> Ukrainians aren't paying the price, Russians are, Russian casualties are massive.


First his🇺🇦 suicidal geopolitical policies and NATO 🇪🇺ambitions led his country into an existential disaster ..And now he🇺🇦 is pretending to be brave urging his countrymen to die with molotov cocktails in hands to resist the 🇷🇺 tanks
When you elect a clown then expect a circus! Tell me who has low IQ and hope like my synopsis about him in my previous post.
Clearly, we are not an ape, but rather an enemy who even deters from thinking about our bad intent and national interests. This makes us the worst.


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## Signalian

reflecthofgeismar said:


> Russians don't use BTR-3, except it's captured. ^^
> For tanks I saw only T-72B3M and T-80BVM - what is funny, I thought they only wanna use the T-80 series in the REALLY cold regions.


They have almost the same weaponry so both know weaknesses of MBTs/IFVs used by other side.

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## Hack-Hook

Suriya said:


> #BREAKING: Ukraine files case against Russia at the International Court of Justice at The Hague. “We request an urgent decision ordering Russia to cease military activity now and expect trials to start next week”, says the Ukrainian President.


ICJ only can participate in case of war crime , not in case of war , that's the duty of UNSC


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## Brainsucker

pakpride00090 said:


> Why has Russian performance been so poor ? I am watching videos of their equipment and troops being destroyed and humiliated respectively , on reddit.
> 
> What do you make of that ? Do you think there is a possibility RU can fail in achieving its objectives given covert and overt support given to Ukrainians by the west ?



It easy, because they didn't cripple Ukraine's command and communication, and let the Ukrainian rally their troop. They should destroy all important assets first, like electricity, radio and TV stations, etc first. To make all Ukrainian doesn't recieved information from outside world. Make them separate from the world, like cave men, then strike them with propaganda and intimidation, to destroy their morale. But when they can get information from outside world, and get rallied by their leaders, then their morale will raise, and they will become massive danger for the front line army.

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## RescueRanger

When you live in your own collective bubble of ignorance failing to realize that Russians use GLONASS.

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## gambit

Signalian said:


> Can NATO bog down Russia through Ukraine in this war till Russian economy is drained out as the war prolongs ?


Like post 5494 said about the 'War chest' factor, how large and deep is Russia's apportioned out for this war? Did Putin correctly estimated global response and appropriately funded the war? Did Putin anticipated the loss of Russia's participation in the global finance and trade market? Right now, not buying/selling Russian vodka may sound silly, but what if that consumer level boycott gain traction into other Russian products? Maybe even Russian mail order brides will be boycotted, although, I would find that sector difficult to avoid.

So yes, the West can turn Ukraine into a pit of economic quicksand for Russia. There is a list of countries that support Russia but Putin know he can count on none of them, notably not wealthy China. In short, Russia is quite alone, except for worthless verbal support on various internet forums.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497859581183205378

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## jhungary

Brainsucker said:


> Alright, welcome back.


Not back, at least not completely. 

I am just seeing this as a very good talking point, so I come back up here.

Well, how frequent do you see Russian conventional war? You see a lot of how NATO and US fight conventional war. But this is probably the first since Soviet Union fight Afghanistan in the 80s, and to be honest? I am disappointed. And I think most military analyst would have say the same thing.

Anyway, thank you for your post.

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## RescueRanger

Signalian said:


> Ghost of Kiev flying Mig-29 who has reportedly shot down 6 Russian fighter aircraft in 30 hours making him Europe's first ace fighter pilot since World War 2 ? Rumor only ?



*Brother that "myth" was busted on day 1:*








'Ghost Of Kyiv' Fighter Pilot Blowing Up Russian Aircraft In Trending Clip Actually From Video Game


Fake footage from Digital Combat Simulator fueled rumors of Ukrainian super pilot




kotaku.com

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## jhungary

pakpride00090 said:


> Why has Russian performance been so poor ? I am watching videos of their equipment and troops being destroyed and humiliated respectively , on reddit.
> 
> What do you make of that ? Do you think there is a possibility RU can fail in achieving its objectives given covert and overt support given to Ukrainians by the west ?



Two things.

1.) Russia no doubt (At least in my mind) underestimated Ukraine warfighting capability. Notice that even with light anti-tank weapon like N-Law the British give them, and Javelin (From the US), those are still quite capable weapon if they were used in a right condition. Now, we all know the Ukrainian have those weapon, that is not even a secret. But I sincerely think the Russia either do not think Ukrainian know how to deploy them effectively, or even worse, they either discounted them or ignored them.

2.) Ukrainian have been adapted to how Russia fight, and Russia did not change their playbook any. Bear in mind Ukrainian has been fighting and resisting the Russian for 8 years, they should be more than adapted by now. And what Russia doing now is no different then when they were doing in Donbass, they are only doing it on a bigger scale. Which mean the Ukrainian still know where and when to hit the Russian to make it hurt.

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## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> If Iran support Russia, Iran can always attack Germany in support of Russia. Other than that, you have to live with the laws as is.


which law , why you guys won't live with it , how many neutral countries european attacked in WW1 and WW2


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## kingQamaR

Fighting house to house in a city is a different type of war and will be bloody. The Russians must know this from bitter experience in Stalingrad. and in Chechnya Ukraine is now heading the same way for them fight there way in


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## BigMelatonin

jhungary said:


> Two things.
> 
> 1.) Russia no doubt (At least in my mind) underestimated Ukraine warfighting capability. Notice that even with light anti-tank weapon like N-Law the British give them, and Javelin (From the US), those are still quite capable weapon if they were used in a right condition. Now, we all know the Ukrainian have those weapon, that is not even a secret. But I sincerely think the Russia either do not think Ukrainian know how to deploy them effectively, or even worse, they either discounted them or ignored them.
> 
> 2.) Ukrainian have been adapted to how Russia fight, and Russia did not change their playbook any. Bear in mind Ukrainian has been fighting and resisting the Russian for 8 years, they should be more than adapted by now. And what Russia doing now is no different then when they were doing in Donbass, they are only doing it on a bigger scale. Which mean the Ukrainian still know where and when to hit the Russian to make it hurt.


They didn't underestimate them, they are trying to minimize harm to civilians. In Kiev the people still have power, telephone, etc. because Russia is targeting only military targets instead of infrastructure. If they wanted to minimize their own casualties they could simply fight US style and level Kiev and Kharkov.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497917403304452097
russian convoy annihilated in Kyiv

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497918446239055873


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 819281
> 
> 
> When you live in your own collective bubble of ignorance failing to realize that Russians use GLONASS.




This is quite a hilarious comment

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## Wergeland

jhungary said:


> Two things.
> 
> 1.) Russia no doubt (At least in my mind) underestimated Ukraine warfighting capability. Notice that even with light anti-tank weapon like N-Law the British give them, and Javelin (From the US), those are still quite capable weapon if they were used in a right condition. Now, we all know the Ukrainian have those weapon, that is not even a secret. But I sincerely think the Russia either do not think Ukrainian know how to deploy them effectively, or even worse, they either discounted them or ignored them.
> 
> 2.) Ukrainian have been adapted to how Russia fight, and Russia did not change their playbook any. Bear in mind Ukrainian has been fighting and resisting the Russian for 8 years, they should be more than adapted by now. And what Russia doing now is no different then when they were doing in Donbass, they are only doing it on a bigger scale. Which mean the Ukrainian still know where and when to hit the Russian to make it hurt.



I think your analysis is sound.
Something is missing here is that Russia may want to annex Ukraine as a whole. Which means it wants to conquor Ukraine without completeley destroying it.

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## CrazyZ

Signalian said:


> Ukrainian T-80 Oplot Vs Russian T-90 would have been an interesting duel. Perhaps T-64 Bulat Vs T-72 B3.


I wouldn't expect too much tank Vs tank......both sides have similar tank qualities (OplotvT90, Bulat vs t-t72). The key observation here for Pakistani military circles will be the effectiveness of Javelin type ATGM's. IMO, PA should start thinking about acquiring HJ-12's in large quantities.

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## Ali_Baba

As a side note - The increase in defence spending across mainland europe that will come - does free the USA to concentrate on east asia as a side effect. A strategic mistake by Russia for sure and not good news for China ... and one that China should have seen and counselled the Russian against ???


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## jhungary

Signalian said:


> Can NATO bog down Russia through Ukraine in this war till Russian economy is drained out as the war prolongs ?



I know this is not asked for me, but let me answer that anyway.

The short answer is yes. 

There are only enough money for you to hold and use for war, after that money is gone, you cannot pay for war material, you cannot pay for wages, you cannot pay for food and etc (well, you get my point)

What NATO and the West is doing is isolating the money factor for Russia. Russia is trying to sanction proof their economy but nothing is actually sanction proof. Money is probably the number 1 factor for all wars. So if you hit people with their money, it's usually is where it hurts.

What the sanction do is freeze Russian Asset in US, EU and the West (including Japan some other Asian country.) Also US is putting a hit on Russian Central bank, by frozen their ability to use USD, and taking them out of SWIFT. Which mean 2 things. 

1.) You cannot raise money by putting out debt to fund the war. Each debt have to be guaranteed and supported by your economy, effctively, what the US is doing is to taken out Russian ability to raise debt in USD or Euro or GBP. Which mean the Russian can either raise debt on Rouble (their currency) or Chinese Yuan. The first one is kaput, it's worth as much as toilet paper right now, which mean this is not going to be good for raising money. Yuan is the only possibility, however, that would depend on Chinese willingness to finance a war with Ukraine. I honestly don't see how, as Ukraine is China strategic partner and this war does not hurt US or EU or NATO a bit, which mean there are nothing to gain for the Chinese.

2.) Russia will have a hard time looking for parts and material in the international market. Russia is resourceful but not resource proof, there are things that Russia does not have and have to depend on outside world. And by taking them out of SWIFT, they cannot use international transfer to pay for their order. Which stop them from making supplies.

Another issue for Sanction is, it basically taken out Putin and his people money. First by taken Russian Oligarch money out of EU and force them to put it back into Russia or China or some other place that were no sanctioning them. Then US hit Russia Central bank and make their asset worthless by making rouble worthless. That will really hurt the pocket of Putin and Friends.

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## thetutle

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497918446239055873


I assume these are Russian vehicles. This must have been some sort of an air strike. Maybe helicopter with those rockets.


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## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497917403304452097
> russian convoy annihilated in Kyiv



Modern warfare is brutal for sure - i would not expect many russians to have survived that encounter.


----------



## jhungary

Wergeland said:


> I think your analysis is sound.
> Something is missing here is that Russia may want to annex Ukraine as a whole. Which means it wants to conquor Ukraine without completeley destroying it.


Actually, I have already said that by saying Russian intention is land grab instead of a regime change.........

But well, thanks for your input.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Would be curious to know what are Ukraine's Airforce Win % so far vs Russia 
Since Russia is marching on , doubt the Ukraine Airforce has been impactful


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## jamal18

Russia's final diplomatic solution? Close all contacts with Western countries?









Russia:Medvedev: “Final Review” of Russia’s Relations with W...


Russia:“Sanctions could be an excellent reason for the final review of all relations with those states that have introduced them.”




english.alahednews.com.lb

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## _Nabil_

Suriya said:


> Taiwan said it will hit Russia with sanctions and called for an end to the attack on Ukraine, a nation that shares similar security worries
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497069206642249747


Taiwan acting more and more like an independent country, China will regret this opportunity in my opinion.....


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## NotSure

Here we can see the western values at work. A man was executed in Kiev with 4-5 shots in the back.

https://****/c/1749154603/9014

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## jhungary

BigMelatonin said:


> They didn't underestimate them, they are trying to minimize harm to civilians. In Kiev the people still have power, telephone, etc. because Russia is targeting only military targets instead of infrastructure. If they wanted to minimize their own casualties they could simply fight US style and level Kiev and Kharkov.


Oh well, then they are underestimating the Ukrainian civilian effort to raise hostilities by going soft on them.

Not sure if you understand what I said there, they have underestimated the entire situation in general, the Russian think this is more or less a "Crimea-Type" operation, which the civilian will come out and support them. I don't think this is any close to reality........

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## RescueRanger

*Russians are learning the lessons of being "liberators" *











Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497917403304452097
> russian convoy annihilated in Kyiv


That has to be a UAV look at the state of the hull!

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## jamahir

pkuser2k12 said:


> View attachment 819276
> 
> 
> View attachment 819275



I hope there are records of those Ukranian soldiers and Russians will find them and hand the soldiers over to the Iraqis. And of course the Russians should make the world know this through a YouTube telecast.

Thank you for the info.



Patriot forever said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497901723716923392



The Ukranian government learnt this disinfo and the art of throwing away its own people from their Western government masters.



thetutle said:


> Homelessness in america is a lifestyle choice.



So you are telling me that that person with "Need food" and "Need money" is deliberately suffering hunger and no money in a society where things depend on existence of money within a person's pocket ? Is he some monk to voluntarily suffer hunger and other deprivations ?



Brainsucker said:


> No, the biggest mistake is Muslim countries not acquiring highly advanced technology that make them matter. No Muslim countries today have an ambition to chase China, not to mention United States in term of technology and industry. Having nuclear weapon won't make you suddenly super power. You still need the vehicles that can bring your mass destruction weapon to your enemy's cities. Like Bomber, ICBM, Submarines, Hypersonic Missiles, etc. Without them, your nuclear warehouse will only become the primary target of enemy missiles.



Muslims attempting to build a settlement on Mars in collaboration with other humans will go a long way in development of Muslims.

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## jhungary

BigMelatonin said:


> They didn't underestimate them, they are trying to minimize harm to civilians. In Kiev the people still have power, telephone, etc. because Russia is targeting only military targets instead of infrastructure. If they wanted to minimize their own casualties they could simply fight US style and level Kiev and Kharkov.


Also, levelling Kyiv or Kharkiv does not work for Russia, people will simply fight under the rubble, Ukraine is not a mechanized force that depend on open ground to operate., which make Russian advance even worse, remember what the Soviet did to the Germany in Stalingrad? But this time the Ukrainian have the home advantage.

Also, this will go against the Russian narrative of "they are there to help the people"

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## jamahir

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497917403304452097
> russian convoy annihilated in Kyiv



Who is this Igor Girkin terrorist account you are following ?


----------



## RescueRanger

AP WIRE: President Putin has ordered his military command to put his nuclear assets on high alert. - AP NEWS

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## maverick1977

Russia at this point should create new Ukrainian government while they fight the rest of the country.
This will be a shrewd move to divide and get Ukrainian people to join their ranks

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## Enigma SIG

RescueRanger said:


> AP WIRE: President Putin has ordered his military command to put his nuclear assets on high alert. - AP NEWS


Gonna put Kiev out of action?


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

NATO -> Attacked Syria & Libya
*Objectives: *
Weaken Russian influence in Africa and Near Israel create buffer Kurdish state (between Turkey/Iran) 
*Media Spin: * ISIS/ Civil War in Syria

Russia's Response -> Ukraine
*Objectives:*
Sea route for Russia and create a buffer impotent state Ukraine minor
*Media Spin:* Ukraine's minority being oppressed

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## smart7788

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497920286041071616

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## jamahir

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> NATO -> Attacked Syria & Libya
> Russia's Response -> Ukraine



I didn't understand your post.


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## White privilege

Can any one tell what really happened at Antonov airport, was it seized, was it retaken?? Also why haven't Russians seized airfields around Ukraine with large forces to outflank the defenders,should have been easier given their greater numbers??


----------



## jamahir

smart7788 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497920286041071616



What happened there ?

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## RescueRanger

https://twitter.com/fpleitgenCNN



*50*17'55"N 36*22'00"E *








jamahir said:


> What happened there ?


War happened! This is what war does to society!

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## lcloo

Delete


----------



## Saho

Something seems off about this.

Scorched-earth policy is Russia’s #1 motto in a war as an aim to cripple their enemy’s morals so why aren’t they flattening Ukraine?


----------



## RescueRanger

Enigma SIG said:


> Gonna put Kiev out of action?


I think this is a saber-rattling tactic based on all the statements coming out of Germany, UK, USA etc.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497896671694532608

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497921370449227777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497879565385015297

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## 313ghazi

So does Russia have air superiority over Ukraine yet? 

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) i saw on FB you questioned Russian bvr capabilities. Care to expand?


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## jhungary

White privilege said:


> Can any one tell what really happened at Antonov airport, was it seized, was it retaken?? Also why haven't Russians seized airfields around Ukraine with large forces to outflank the defenders,should have been easier given their greater numbers??



Antonov Airport felt to Russian hand on the 25th as per Russian source, at least Ukraine is not disputing that.

Russia is currently 48-72 hours behind their schedule. Now I don't know what actually happen as I was not in the front line fighting, but if I have to guess, Russian runs into heavier resistant then they were anticipating. That is the only logical explanation.



313ghazi said:


> So does Russia have air superiority over Ukraine yet?
> 
> @Bilal Khan (Quwa) i saw on FB you questioned Russian bvr capabilities. Care to expand?


As of today. No

Ukraine Air Asset still shown flying over Ukraine. 

Also, US/NATO next round of military aid would include SAM and MANPAD, which would mean it will threaten Russian Air Superiority mission.


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## White privilege

RescueRanger said:


> I think this is a saber-rattling tactic based on all the statements coming out of Germany, UK, USA etc.


Russians are probably guaging the _complete _Ukrainian response.They want Ukraine to throw the kitchen sink at them and then they will just one up that firepower.

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## 313ghazi

kingQamaR said:


> Fighting house to house in a city is a different type of war and will be bloody. The Russians must know this from bitter experience in Stalingrad. and in Chechnya Ukraine is now heading the same way for them fight there way in


I don't think they'll go door to door. The second time they invaded Grozny they besieged the city and bombed it into submission before they went in. 





__





Battle of Grozny (1999–2000) - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org

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## jamahir

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497921370449227777



Messerschmitt, why are you being a hypocrite ? You post this vid of "anti-war" and "Stop the Russians" demonstrations but when did these same protestors march against NATO's wars against Libya and Syria which are going on as we speak ? Why are you and these marchers not concerned about Libyans and Syrians ?

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Russia wants to control over the land it conquers (land with proper infrastructure) don't want a wasteland which has to be redeveloped

Problem is the government official when he is removed , border lines will be redrawn

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## Inception-06

jhungary said:


> I will be here most of today, and then I will check back on Day 7 to answer some question.
> 
> As I said, I will only discuss military issue, if you have a question on Military Issue, feel free to ask, if you want to comment on other political stuff, then please don't bother, cause I am not into dick measure competition.
> 
> Quote me if you want to ask anything.



Sir,

1. Why the Russian Military has underestimated the Ukraine resistance capability ?

2. From observation, it looks like the Russians don’t have any plans and training in combine warfare for build up areas, do you agree ? And if so why is that so ?

3. Why the Russians were not capable of gaining air superiority?

4. Why the Russians are underestimating and ignorant regarding the fluency of NATO weapons into Ukraine? Would the the Russians take steps against that ?

5. Did the Russians not calculated the ESINT - intelligence help of NATO to Ukraine? Will they do something about that ?

6. Are this Russian units the “well trained” forces ? Because sometimes one’s get the impression they are bad trained and equipped, compared to NATO standards.

7. My impression is that the Russians have ignored their logistical war planing, regarding the protection of supplies lines

8. Russian convoy movement looks something like a rag tag Army, without convoy movement discipline and protection, I have seen better doing this by NATO and US FORCES…

Does all the points which you have described in your analysis and which the layman can obeserve regarding the weaknesses of the Russian military and their misconceptions and miscalculation let us to the conclusion that the Russians Military was never an par in Quality with the NATO ?

Best regards

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## 1ndy

jhungary said:


> Antonov Airport felt to Russian hand on the 25th as per Russian source, at least Ukraine is not disputing that.
> 
> Russia is currently 48-72 hours behind their schedule. Now I don't know what actually happen as I was not in the front line fighting, but if I have to guess, Russian runs into heavier resistant then they were anticipating. That is the only logical explanation.
> 
> 
> As of today. No
> 
> Ukraine Air Asset still shown flying over Ukraine.
> 
> Also, US/NATO next round of military aid would include SAM and MANPAD, which would mean it will threaten Russian Air Superiority mission.


Russian weapons are dud...

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## Saddam Hussein

Microsoft said:


> and this is liberal media.
> 
> What's the verdict @Saddam Hussein



Crackers praising their fellow eastern crackers


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497929554857533442

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497929390805688321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497929648134668295^ Russia accepting talks with Ukraine now *without preconditions* tells you all you need to know about how well the Russians feel their invasion is going for them.

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## LeGenD

K_Bin_W said:


> Anything from western media/sources.....FLUSH.....


Really?

Americans notified the entire world well in advance that Russia will invade Ukraine:









At UN, US warns Russia planning to attack Ukraine in 'coming days'


UNITED NATIONS: US Secretary of State Antony Blinken laid out at the United Nations Security Council on Thursday how...



www.brecorder.com













Russia could invade Ukraine next week, US warns


As tensions escalate, Biden and Putin will speak on Saturday. Read more at straitstimes.com.




www.straitstimes.com










Subscribe to read | Financial Times


News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




www.ft.com





Russia was like:









Vladimir Putin says Russia will not invade Ukraine but sends warning to West | ITV News


Russia will not start a war in Ukraine, Vladimir Putin has said, but warned the US and Nato have left little room for compromise after ignoring his demands. | ITV National News




www.itv.com







https://www.rt.com/russia/540121-russia-denies-plans-invade-ukraine/











Belarusian President Denies There Will Be an Attack on Ukraine


The Belarusian leader said that the United States' intelligence community has wrongly predicted that Russia would invade its neighbor.




nationalinterest.org





*Guess what?*

Russia invaded Ukraine on 24-02-22 and Belarus is complicit in this matter.

*Lesson:* do not be close-minded.



Dalit said:


> You know what Western sources were claiming not so long ago during the Taliban march towards Kabul? ANA had the upperhand and the druggy addicts in Pantsjir valley were ready to defeat the Taliban. We all know that Western claims were lies. You will hear a lot of lies during this conflict from the Western media.


See above.

You may thank Joe Biden for bringing Afghan Taliban back to power. Afghan Taliban were in contact with Americans throughout the withdrawal process. 

Let us stick to the topic on hand.

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## White privilege

jhungary said:


> Also US/NATO next round of military aid would include SAM and MANPAD, which would mean it will threaten Russian Air Superiority mission.


This is what Russians need to be careful about.Instead of going after big cities for propaganda victories ,they need to cut this Ukrainian access to Europe from which resupply would eventually flow. They need to make an amphibious assualt and seize the western regions.

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## tower9

LeGenD said:


> Really?
> 
> Americans notified the entire world well in advance that Russia will invade Ukraine:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At UN, US warns Russia planning to attack Ukraine in 'coming days'
> 
> 
> UNITED NATIONS: US Secretary of State Antony Blinken laid out at the United Nations Security Council on Thursday how...
> 
> 
> 
> www.brecorder.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia could invade Ukraine next week, US warns
> 
> 
> As tensions escalate, Biden and Putin will speak on Saturday. Read more at straitstimes.com.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.straitstimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Subscribe to read | Financial Times
> 
> 
> News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ft.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia was like:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vladimir Putin says Russia will not invade Ukraine but sends warning to West | ITV News
> 
> 
> Russia will not start a war in Ukraine, Vladimir Putin has said, but warned the US and Nato have left little room for compromise after ignoring his demands. | ITV National News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.itv.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.rt.com/russia/540121-russia-denies-plans-invade-ukraine/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Belarusian President Denies There Will Be an Attack on Ukraine
> 
> 
> The Belarusian leader said that the United States' intelligence community has wrongly predicted that Russia would invade its neighbor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nationalinterest.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Guess what?*
> 
> Russia invaded Ukraine on 24-02-22 and Belarus is complicit in this matter.
> 
> *Lesson:* do not be close-minded.


I guess the boy who cried wolf was finally right one time. It points to how little credibility the media has that even Ukraine didn’t believe these warnings.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497875354228248583

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## Ali_Baba

*Ukrainian forces obliterated a Chechen special forces column made up of 56 tanks outside Kyiv*









Ukraine to hold peace talks with Russia on border with Belarus


Putin gave his 'special gratitude' for troops involved in the 'special operation to provide assistance to the people's republics of Donbas'.




www.dailymail.co.uk





( *Chechen general Magomed Tushaev confirmed as dead .. )*

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497917442508701697

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497920293863448578


----------



## mike2000 is back

dBSPL said:


> Although there is a very crowded Chinese group in the forum, it draws my attention to the fact that they always agree on everything. There is no other country in the forum that can be similar to this situation.


Yeah it's abot weird. They all seem to have similar opinions on everything. 😆


Iñigo said:


> When 1000 shells a day were falling on the Russians in the Don ... what was the Russian army to do? wait seven more years?
> 
> Ukraine was made by the Bolsheviks, if the Polish-Ukrainian fanatics don't like Ukraine because it is full of Russian-Ukrainians ... What's the point of keeping the fiction called "Ukraine" which is a tool in the hands of Washington.
> 
> Why does Russia have to allow itself to be cornered by NATO while at the same time having to put up with watching the Russians in the Don being shelled


What type of logic is that? Lol If every country was to use that excuse of past history and ethic background persecution in another sovereign country , then over half the countries on earth today will be at war with each other. 😆 China will invade Mongolia and even Burma, since Mongolia was clearly part of China until Russia carved it out illegitmately from China, and vast parts of Burma close to the border with China are inhabited by ethnic Chinese rebels who have been at war with the central Burmese government for decades now. China should have invaded Burma and carve it out to its liking and annexed those parts inhabited by ethnic Chinese.🤣 In fact China ca also use that excuse to invade Vietnam since there are ethnic Chinese who jave been persecuted there as well. Lol India should do the same with those Hindus who have been persecuted in Pakistan. 🤣 etc etc many such examples around the world. You want to bring the world back in the 19th century ? 🤣😂


Moreover why are you against Ukraine central government using every means in its arsenal to reunite its country against separatists? Ukraine central government has every right to maintain its territorial unity against any armed separatists groups irrespective of the reqson of these separatists. Just like China had every right to suppress separatists groups and militants in Tibet, and Xinjiang and even Taiwan , and how Indias central government has every right to use force to maintain its territorial intergrity in northeast against the many sepratsist groups there, same with Pakistan in against baluchistan separatists, or Sri Lanka against tamil tigers separatists etc etc etc. 
The fact that some of you people try and make excuses to justify this while being against the same thing in another country just shows your bias to be honest.


----------



## Steppe Wolff

1ndy said:


> Russian weapons are dud...


Russians haven’t brought their best weapons nor they are fighting according to their usual doctrine of heavy artillery barrages and carpet bombing.


----------



## Trango Towers

Ali_Baba said:


> *Ukrainian forces obliterated a Chechen special forces column made up of 56 tanks outside Kyiv*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine to hold peace talks with Russia on border with Belarus
> 
> 
> Putin gave his 'special gratitude' for troops involved in the 'special operation to provide assistance to the people's republics of Donbas'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk


Special forces don't travel in tanks

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## vostok

It is a payback for 8 years of constant shelling of Donbass people.

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## Trango Towers

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497917442508701697
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497920293863448578


What we're the Ukrainians role in the chechen wars

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## Ali_Baba

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497929554857533442
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497929390805688321
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497929648134668295^ Russia accepting talks with Ukraine now *without preconditions* tells you all you need to know about how well the Russians feel their invasion is going for them.



This is at great personal risk to Zelensky, and runs the risk he is taken out in transit or not able to return to Ukraine and is stranded if he leaves ukraine.

Belarus'sia' was and is never an option. That has been rejected outright.

If alternative talks are agreed to - Zelensky should send a "delegation" and not go himself.. or have a succession plan in place in case something happens to him during these "talks".


----------



## K_Bin_W

LeGenD said:


> Really?
> 
> Americans notified the entire world well in advance that Russia will invade Ukraine:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At UN, US warns Russia planning to attack Ukraine in 'coming days'
> 
> 
> UNITED NATIONS: US Secretary of State Antony Blinken laid out at the United Nations Security Council on Thursday how...
> 
> 
> 
> www.brecorder.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia could invade Ukraine next week, US warns
> 
> 
> As tensions escalate, Biden and Putin will speak on Saturday. Read more at straitstimes.com.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.straitstimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Subscribe to read | Financial Times
> 
> 
> News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ft.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia was like:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vladimir Putin says Russia will not invade Ukraine but sends warning to West | ITV News
> 
> 
> Russia will not start a war in Ukraine, Vladimir Putin has said, but warned the US and Nato have left little room for compromise after ignoring his demands. | ITV National News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.itv.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.rt.com/russia/540121-russia-denies-plans-invade-ukraine/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Belarusian President Denies There Will Be an Attack on Ukraine
> 
> 
> The Belarusian leader said that the United States' intelligence community has wrongly predicted that Russia would invade its neighbor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nationalinterest.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Guess what?*
> 
> Russia invaded Ukraine on 24-02-22 and Belarus is complicit in this matter.
> 
> *Lesson:* do not be close-minded.



Depends what western media is barking about, When it foams at mouth against you know what..... FLUSH.... 

I can start with Eyraqs WMD and go on and on and on but there is no point nor there is enough space on this forum.


----------



## obj 705A

Ukraine’s Defense Ministry posted fake video as air battle​
The verified Twitter page of *the Ukrainian Defense Ministry published video game footage* on February 25 *claiming to show a Ukrainian fighter jet shooting down a Russian plane*. On Saturday, Reuters fact-checked the widely shared fake video as ‘_miscaptioned_’.

The ministry’s tweet was still up at the time of publication. The 15-second video is accompanied by the caption, “_What is this Ukrainian ace doing?_” The Defense Ministry’s account describes it as a MiG-29 fighter jet destroying a Russian Su-35 jet with a missile.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497170325162934272
Social media users were quick to point to the YouTube video ‘_*Ghost of Kiev*. Dogfight between Ukrainian MiG29 and Russian Su27 simulated in DCS World’_. The clip, which has over a million views, refers to an unconfirmed but quickly spreading story about the ‘_Ghost of Kyiv_’ Ukrainian ace, who allegedly managed to single-handedly down six enemy aircraft.

However, that clip was first uploaded to YouTube with the title ‘_Ghost of Kiev kill_’. The uploader claimed the footage was made with a digital combat simulator in the description box.

DCS stands for Digital Combat Simulator World, a digital battlefield game developed by Eagle Dynamics.

A spokesperson for the company Matthias Techmanski confirmed in an email to Reuters that the footage was from DCS, and that Eagle Dynamics was “_not responsible for its distribution,_” and does not endorse “_such content_.”

The Reuters fact check said the footage was ‘_miscaptioned_’ and comes from a video game. Twitter on Saturday flagged the Ukrainian Defense Ministry’s post as misleading. It said that "_this media is presented out of context._"

Some users deleted the misleading video and apologized.

There have been a number of other videos making their way around social media described as footage of the ongoing military conflict in Ukraine, thus highlighting the long-standing problem in which unverified videos with little to no context or research end up being spread throughout social media and are even picked up by government accounts.



https://www.rt.com/russia/550694-ukraine-defense-ministry-fake/


----------



## dBSPL

Ali_Baba said:


> *Ukrainian forces obliterated a Chechen special forces column made up of 56 tanks outside Kyiv*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine to hold peace talks with Russia on border with Belarus
> 
> 
> Putin gave his 'special gratitude' for troops involved in the 'special operation to provide assistance to the people's republics of Donbas'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497917403304452097

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497918415658528770


----------



## arjunk

###


RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 819245
> 
> Unexploded Ordinance in Kharkiv.


Air to Air missile?


----------



## Messerschmitt

jamahir said:


> Messerschmitt, why are you being a hypocrite ? You post this vid of "anti-war" and "Stop the Russians" demonstrations but when did these same protestors march against NATO's wars against Libya and Syria which are going on as we speak ? Why are you and these marchers not concerned about Libyans and Syrians ?


You might not have noticed but this thread is about the Russian invasion of Ukraine. It is literally in the name of the thread. So what does this march have to do with Libya or Syria? Why should I post videos of protests against the wars in Libya and Syria in a thread about Russia and Ukraine? Is that so hard to comprehend?

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## 1ndy

Steppe Wolff said:


> Russians haven’t brought their best weapons nor they are fighting according to their usual doctrine of heavy artillery barrages and carpet bombing.


What are their best weapons? 
Su35, S300 and 400, Migs, Su27s and 30s? 

their cruise missiles are getting stuck in buildings... so much for TERCOM guidance...


----------



## obj 705A

Russian MoD: Ukraine's Forces Use Banned Phosphorus Munitions Outside Kiev​
According to the ministry's spokesman, the use of these munitions is prohibited under the UN Convention's Protocol on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Incendiary Weapons.

Ukrainian forces, desperate to deter the Russian offensive, have started using munitions filled with phosphorus near Gostomel Airport outside Kiev, the Russian Defence Ministry said.
Kiev's forces 

been using 122 mm D30 howitzers and rockets for BM-21 "Grad" systems made in the Soviet Union.



https://sputniknews.com/20220227/russian-mod-ukraines-forces-use-banned-phosphorous-munitions-outside-kiev-1093422868.html


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## Foinikas

Meanwhile in Britain

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497648546085888003


dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497917403304452097
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497918415658528770


The Russians have suffered heavy losses...
In the battle of Irpin and Bucha, 10 km northwest of Kiev, over 800 Russian soldiers were killed, the entire advance was destroyed and nearly 100 Russian armored vehicles were destroyed.

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## Steppe Wolff

1ndy said:


> What are their best weapons?
> Su35, S300 and 400, Migs, Su27s and 30s?
> 
> their cruise missiles are getting stuck in buildings... so much for TERCOM guidance...


If Russians want their bombers can flatten Kiev and Kharkiv today.
And their cruise missiles knocked out Ukrainian air assets and air defense pretty well. Today is the 3rd day and they have already demolished most of Ukrainian Air Assets and Air defence. They are trying to make image of liberators instead of aggressors and therefore not going on a blitz all over Ukraine.


----------



## Enigma SIG

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497648546085888003


Gotta admit, Zelensky is a good showman and has inspired other clowns to one up him 😅

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## jamahir

Messerschmitt said:


> You might not have noticed but this thread is about the Russian invasion of Ukraine. It is literally in the name of the thread. So what does this march have to do with Libya or Syria? Why should I post videos of protests against the wars in Libya and Syria in a thread about Russia and Ukraine? Is that so hard to comprehend?



I have been in this thread for many pages but you may not have noticed. 

And please don't talk like a crooked lawyer who uses legal loopholes to escape a discussion where simple human values and rationality is needed.

And see below what your dear Ukranian military is doing.



obj 705A said:


> Russian MoD: Ukraine's Forces Use Banned Phosphorus Munitions Outside Kiev​
> According to the ministry's spokesman, the use of these munitions is prohibited under the UN Convention's Protocol on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Incendiary Weapons.
> 
> Ukrainian forces, desperate to deter the Russian offensive, have started using munitions filled with phosphorus near Gostomel Airport outside Kiev, the Russian Defence Ministry said.
> Kiev's forces
> 
> been using 122 mm D30 howitzers and rockets for BM-21 "Grad" systems made in the Soviet Union.
> 
> 
> 
> https://sputniknews.com/20220227/russian-mod-ukraines-forces-use-banned-phosphorous-munitions-outside-kiev-1093422868.html



How nice of the "heroic" Ukranian military.


----------



## dBSPL

Zelensky's office: the Ukrainian delegation goes to the Belarusian border for negotiations

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## 8888888888888

jhungary said:


> Also, levelling Kyiv or Kharkiv does not work for Russia, people will simply fight under the rubble, Ukraine is not a mechanized force that depend on open ground to operate., which make Russian advance even worse, remember what the Soviet did to the Germany in Stalingrad? But this time the Ukrainian have the home advantage.
> 
> Also, this will go against the Russian narrative of "they are there to help the people"


Chechen war and Syria, Russia did it and won. Must have gotten experience with the battle of Berlin.

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## jamahir

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497648546085888003



An Al Qaeda or "Muslim" Brotherhood criminal who surely has been involved in terrorism in his country Syria.

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## 1ndy

Steppe Wolff said:


> If Russians want their bombers can flatten Kiev and Kharkiv today.
> And their cruise missiles knocked out Ukrainian air assets and air defense pretty well. Today is the 3rd day and they have already demolished most of Ukrainian Air Assets and Air defence. They are trying to make image of liberators instead of aggressors and therefore not going on a blitz all over Ukraine.


Liberating whom and from whom? 

Putin not Russians thought that Ukraine won't put up a fight and it's people will sides him... Ukraine dragged them into place of their liking and now killing them at will.

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## dBSPL

Kharkov region. 2S6 Tunguska tactical air defense system.






Missiles are raining down on Russian troops from both ATGMs and tactical UAVs.

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## 8888888888888

Saho said:


> Something seems off about this.
> 
> Scorched-earth policy is Russia’s #1 motto in a war as an aim to cripple their enemy’s morals so why aren’t they flattening Ukraine?


Only in resistance areas, if they surrender nothing will happen.


----------



## Spetsnaz.frog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497897365130207233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497856259026046978

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497845100545810432

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## Reichmarshal

Englishman said:


> Absolutely
> 
> Iran needs nukes ASAP (their POV)
> Israel must destroy Iran before they get nukes (their POV)


Iran has been hand in glove with isreal since before its inseption...but now Iran has out lived its usefulness for isreal as now isreal is about to enter a new phase the final phase in the history of the jews.
In all likelihood isreal along with its allies will Wipeout Iran from the map...soon.....before they take care of the arabs once n for all

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## Steppe Wolff

1ndy said:


> Liberating whom and from whom?
> 
> Putin not Russians thought that Ukraine won't put up a fight and it's people will sides him... Ukraine dragged them into place of their liking and now killing them at will.


Russia has tried to portray itself as a liberator of Ukrainian people from Neo Nazis governing them.
Killing them at will? Are you sure? Russians are taking casualties thats is correct but Ukrainians are getting pounded and they will not survive the next few days. Kiev is already in the process of getting encircled.

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## 1ndy

Steppe Wolff said:


> If Russians want their bombers can flatten Kiev and Kharkiv today.
> And their cruise missiles knocked out Ukrainian air assets and air defense pretty well. Today is the 3rd day and they have already demolished most of Ukrainian Air Assets and Air defence. They are trying to make image of liberators instead of aggressors and therefore not going on a blitz all over Ukraine.


Russian bombers wouldn't even dare to fly near Ukraine... they are centuries old junk with non functional precision guidance systems... and now Western Anti Air MANPADS (that actually works unlike Russian junk) started arriving in large numbers, chances of air raids becoming more unlikely.

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## 1ndy

Steppe Wolff said:


> Russia has tried to portray itself as a liberator of Ukrainian people from Neo Nazis governing them.
> Killing them at will? Are you sure? Russians are taking casualties thats is correct but Ukrainians are getting pounded and they will not survive the next few days. Kiev is already in the process of getting encircled.


I am marking this post and will get back to you after those few days. 

PS: Putin is crying for talk


----------



## Messerschmitt

jamahir said:


> And please don't talk like a crooked lawyer who uses legal loopholes to escape a discussion where simple human values and rationality is needed.


In other words: You don't know either what this march has to do with Libya or Syria.


----------



## Steppe Wolff

1ndy said:


> Russian bombers wouldn't even dare to fly near Ukraine... they are centuries old junk with non functional precision guidance systems... and now Western Anti Air MANPADS (that actually works unlike Russian junk) started arriving in large numbers, chances of air raids becoming more unlikely.


Chances of Air Raids? Russian Junk? 
🤣🤣🤣
Russian junk demolished most of Ukrainian air defense and airforce in 48 hours. 
Stop watching Western Propaganda and come to reality.


----------



## alimobin memon

Spetsnaz.frog said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497897365130207233
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497856259026046978
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497845100545810432


In map what is meaning of explosion icon below russian flag unit ? 

Welcome at last some credible source.

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## Spetsnaz.frog

Azov batallion base falls to russians in donskoe

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## Taimoor Khan

khansaheeb said:


> I can see conspiracy theories coming up.



Well, we still dont know how and why Pakistani flags were raised in Baku after Azerbaijan and Armenia conflict!

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## Spetsnaz.frog

alimobin memon said:


> In map what is meaning of explosion icon below russian flag unit ?
> 
> Welcome at last some credible source.



Current engagement

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## ASKardar



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## 1ndy

Steppe Wolff said:


> Chances of Air Raids? Russian Junk?
> 🤣🤣🤣
> Russian junk demolished most of Ukrainian air defense and airforce in 48 hours.
> Stop watching Western Propaganda and come to reality.


I know Khan saheb visited Russia recently and your new found love towards Russia will be gone really soon...


----------



## dBSPL

*BREAKING NEWS
Turkish Foreign Minister Çavuşoğlu: "Is there a war or a conflict here? We have made our decision. Article 19 is very clear. This is a war."*

Turkiye is preparing to implement the 19th article of the Montreux Convention. I think, Straits are closing to warships.

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## jamahir

Messerschmitt said:


> In other words: You don't know either what this march has to do with Libya or Syria.



Why doesn't the march have to do with Libya and Syria ? I again ask, if that was really an *anti-war* march then the wars in Libya and Syria should have been mentioned too. Are they not happening on Earth ? Are there not wars going on there which, which were initiated by NATO whose one member is your country Germany's government and military ? Or will you only talk of wars not initiated by NATO ?


----------



## Spetsnaz.frog

Another 30 servicemen of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, employees of the border and customs services voluntarily laid down their arms and turned to the RF Armed Forces for help. After a written refusal to participate in hostilities, they will be able to return home.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497870599212916737

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## Steppe Wolff

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497941501959102468

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## Brainsucker

jhungary said:


> Not back, at least not completely.
> 
> I am just seeing this as a very good talking point, so I come back up here.
> 
> Well, how frequent do you see Russian conventional war? You see a lot of how NATO and US fight conventional war. But this is probably the first since Soviet Union fight Afghanistan in the 80s, and to be honest? I am disappointed. And I think most military analyst would have say the same thing.
> 
> Anyway, thank you for your post.


Not since Afghanistan. They have already have some experience in Chechnya and Georgia. And recently they have some military operation in Syria, to help Assad.


----------



## BigMelatonin

jhungary said:


> Also, levelling Kyiv or Kharkiv does not work for Russia, people will simply fight under the rubble, Ukraine is not a mechanized force that depend on open ground to operate., which make Russian advance even worse, remember what the Soviet did to the Germany in Stalingrad? But this time the Ukrainian have the home advantage.
> 
> Also, this will go against the Russian narrative of "they are there to help the people"


Yeah mate they will fight under the rubble.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497720949227102210

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497834430659919872
That's why Azov is killing civilians who try to flee (there are videos I will not post as it may be against the rules) and the government is calling for foreign volunteers to help them fight. Those are the actions of a well motivated population.

And that was my entire point, that's why they are not carrying out those kinds of tactics, to the point that their own forces are criticizing the policy.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497920342815350784

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## Steppe Wolff

1ndy said:


> I know Khan saheb visited Russia recently and your new found love towards Russia will be gone really soon...


That’s irrelevant. Facts matter. And it is a fact Ukrainian Military is getting pounded as we speak and Kiev will fall.


----------



## K_Bin_W

In a war, the first casualty is "THE TRUTH".. the first rule of thumb, discard any western source direct and indirect.

For the remaining, How do you verify the claims and counterclaims?

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## Steppe Wolff

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497943818024501252

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## jhungary

Inception-06 said:


> Sir,
> 
> 1. Why the Russian Military has underestimated the Ukraine resistance capability ?
> 
> 2. From observation, it looks like the Russians don’t have any plans and training in combine warfare for build up areas, do you agree ? And if so why is that so ?
> 
> 3. Why the Russians were not capable of gaining air superiority?
> 
> 4. Why the Russians are underestimating and ignorant regarding the fluency of NATO weapons into Ukraine? Would the the Russians take steps against that ?
> 
> 5. Did the Russians not calculated the ESINT help of NATO to Ukraine? Will they do something about that ?
> 
> 6. Are this Russian units the “we’ll trained” forces ? Because sometimes ones get the impression It’s just a paper Tiger forces
> 
> 7. My impression is that the Russians have ignored their logistical war planing, regarding the protection of supplies lines
> 
> 8. Russian convoy movement looks something like a rag tag Army, without convoy movement discipline and protection
> 
> Does all the points which you have described in your analysis and which the layman can obeserve regarding the weaknesses of the Russian military and their misconceptions and miscalculation let us to the conclusion that the Russians Military was never an par in Quality with the NATO ?
> 
> Best regards



Thanks for your question. You don't need to call me sir unless you planned to enlist 

Anyway, I try my best to answer your question.

1.) Now before I say anything, I am not going to pretend I know what's Russia is doing, I wasn't trained by the Russian, I was trained by the US, which follow NATO Doctrine. I did study how Russia or Soviet Union conduct war extensively, so I probably have some insight on their mind on operation.

Now, going back to your question, why Russia has underestimated Ukraine warfighting capability? Well, many different issue. The usual suspect is failure to collect relevant intelligence, failure to interpret said intelligence, over estimate their own combat capability, all the way down to general laziness.

However, I think (again, I don't know, so take it anyway as you will) the major reason why the Russian underperform is because they have to, the were tied by their own perspective. The Russia see this war as a liberation, which mean they cannot just went in with all the troop and swarm the entire country, that is evident that the Russian troop in Brest had not move to cut off Western Ukraine from Lviv to Odessa. Because once they did that, they will virtually cut off the entire country, no supplies could come in and out of Ukraine, people are stuck there. Which would create a humanitarian problem the Russian Public do not want. Which mean by that, they can't really deal with the issue head on.

The entire operational planning is to have Ukraine submit by separating military and civilian, but that planning is based on faulty intelligence, if you understand what I am talking about.

2.) Yes, I don't think Russia is trained on MOUT (Military Operation in Urban Terrain) also, they can't do what the usual Soviet Doctrine dictated on Ukraine. which is level the city and by-pass the city center, and starve the residence into submission. They can't really do that in Ukraine....

3.) I think the core problem is what I have been saying for a long time, both on PDF and elsewhere, the dependence on cruise and tactical missile. Notice that Russia seems to try to preserve the Airforce and not fly their plane as much as they uses missile. While you can destroy hard target but missile being a point to point attacking tool, the damage is limited. Which mean damage done to them can be repaired quickly. Take a look on this Satellite Photo of Chuhuiv Airbase (near Kharkiv) after missile strike on the 24th February







You can see the airport being hit and black smoke bellowing from the control tower or some sort of administration building area. But the airfield is largely intact, with proper Field Traffic Control, this airport is "Operational" until the runway is render useless or the airport itself is taken by the Russian (which I think they did, but don't quote me on that)

The over reliant on missile contribute to the effectiveness of air campaign. That is the reason why the Russian are having trouble taking Air Superiority. The only real way to do that is to fly 24/7 sorties all the way around Ukraine, but that will expose Russian fighter with SAM and other Anti-Air Asset.

4.) That I can't tell you. I can guess, probably the reason is that Russia brush aside the effectiveness of those NATO weapon being handed to Ukraine. Either they have not studied how we run into trouble with our Bradley and Abrams on Iraqi with RPG in tight corner, and now Ukrainian are doing the same to Russia using RPG, N-LAW and Javelin. Or they somehow think their tank are better defended against those handheld ATGM than the American Tank? That is probably the best answer I can tell you, as for why they do what I think they did? I honestly don't know, that depends on their military tradition, and as I said, I am not trained with it.

5.) I think they did, they have anticipated NATO help with intelligence front in general, using all available technology at their disposal, flying EMINT sorties, Using Satellite and anything from SIGINT to HUMINT. But there are pretty much nothing Russia can do to that directly because that would involve attacking NATO asset. The only thing Russia can do is to cut off communication between NATO and Ukraine, which is nearly impossible in this information age.

6.) As with any military, some unit are well train and some unit are not. In Russia case, there are draftee and professional soldier. Current intelligence suggest that 20% of those are national serviceman, which mean the quality of Russian troop are uneven. Depends on what Russia actually sent to Ukraine, quality can vary.

However, judging by numerous video leaked/released on purpose, I have a feeling that Russian soldier in theatre is not taking the war seriously. If you have seen a video about a Ukrainian in a car driven by a BMP that run out of fuel and he ask "If he can tow him back to Russia"? That exchange would not have happened if Russian are taking this seriously, I am not saying the soldier should have shoot the man, but I am saying they would have wave him off and not taking a friendly stance. That suggest the war we saw and the war Russian told to its soldier are two different thing.

7.) Yes, especially when they split the advance up into 3, that mean you have 3 logistical responsibility instead of one. General Westly Clark commented on a TV program today saying Russia is choosing the complicated way to invade Ukraine, his guess is that Russia want to finish this operation ASAP, but that mean you now have 3 logistic problem instead of 1. Also, traditional Soviet tactics uses a large armor column to sweep thru the area with overwhelming power, this would not do well unless Russia can catch up with their logistic operation. And that is an issue if they split their force in 3.

In my assessment, I said Day 7 would be D-Day on this war, because by then we will know how much Russia have prepared for in terms of logistic, by Day 7, the Russian should have exhausted what they brought with them, which will expose their logistic problem if they have any, because if they didn't prepare and cannot catch up, the whole operation will fall apart, and Ukraine can really win this thing, normally I would not think this is going to be that but seeing how Russian fight, I am not too sure now.

8.) Well, I think that goes back to my answer to question 6. They act like they are on peacekeeping mission (Which ironically is what Putin tell the world, maybe they did tell the troop that? I don't know) instead of an invasion. The convoy run without flank security and forward security in warzone would most likely be ambush or cut to piece. You don't run convoy like that or you will end up like what happened to Jessica Lynch (Her convoy was lost and ambushed and wipe out by Iraqi near Nasiriyah.

From my perspective, this does not live up to the Russian army hype. I think it's safe to say most Military Pundit like me or anyone else would expect a quick victory seeing how enormous different between the Armed Force of Russia and the Armed Force of Ukraine. But I don't see the advantage show in this war. I don't see effective communication, effective deployment of force or even appraisal of the entire situation.

Now that said, this operation is not going to be representing the true capability of Russia. As there are a lot of thing they can do and a lot of thing they cannot do. But all in all, I don't see at least in this war. Russia is as strong as they projected.

I hope I have answered your question in a satisfactory manner. If you have any other question, please feel free to ask.

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## RescueRanger

arjunk said:


> ###
> 
> Air to Air missile?


Looks like It's a SMERCH rocket:

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## jamahir

1ndy said:


> Russian bombers wouldn't even dare to fly near Ukraine... they are centuries old junk with non functional precision guidance systems... and now Western Anti Air MANPADS (that actually works unlike Russian junk) started arriving in large numbers, chances of air raids becoming more unlikely.




So why is India purchasing, or has purchased, the Russian S-400 anti-aircraft systems ?

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## jhungary

White privilege said:


> This is what Russians need to be careful about.Instead of going after big cities for propaganda victories ,they need to cut this Ukrainian access to Europe from which resupply would eventually flow. They need to make an amphibious assualt and seize the western regions.


things is, I think they can't. 

Russia need to look at public support of this war, if they cut that off (As I said on my reply to a member, they have 40k troop in Brest, and their job is to cut down south and secure the Western Corridor between Lviv and Odessa and cut off Ukraine access to Europe. ) If they do that. they drop their pretence of helping the people of Ukraine, because that move is to contain Ukraine. Make sure nobody come in and nobody leave. 

What do you think if you are Russian, probably have relative in Ukraine, and then your government do that?



1ndy said:


> Russian weapons are dud...



Well, everything is a dud if you don't use it

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## Piotr

Steppe Wolff said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497941501959102468



Donetsk forces will use this weapons against US-founded Neonazis, not against Ukrainians. Patriotic Ukrainians support Donetsk forcies. Patriotic Ukrainians are against US-founded Banderovites.

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## jhungary

8888888888888 said:


> Chechen war and Syria, Russia did it and won. Must have gotten experience with the battle of Berlin.



All I can say is Ukraine is not Chechen and Syria, you probably have no idea how much Russian (Normal Russian, not Putin) is connected to Ukraine. 

There are going to be a lot of opposition if and when Russia level Ukraine. Russian census data show 1/3 of people living in Russia are either of Ukraine Heritage him/herself or have relative living in Ukraine.

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## Mad Scientist 2.0

Not directly linked with war. But extraordinary times create extraordinary examples.









Medical student from Haryana refuses to leave Ukraine, says will take care of house owner’s kids as he joins war


It is a tale of human values, compassion and universal brotherhood — or sisterhood, precisely in this case — which bind us together even during a war.




m.tribuneindia.com


----------



## 1ndy

jamahir said:


> So why is India purchasing, or has purchased, the Russian S-400 anti-aircraft systems ?


because of hype


----------



## Spetsnaz.frog

Situation map update around kiev

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## dBSPL

British Foreign Secretary Elizabeth Truss said she would unconditionally support individual Brits who decide to go to war with Russian troops in Ukraine









Liz Truss ‘absolutely’ supports individual Brits going to fight in Ukraine


‘Of course that is something that people can make their own decisions about’




www.independent.co.uk





Special forces will begin to cross into Ukraine in 'volunteers' packaging. If Putin does not put an end to this, a new Syria will be created in the middle of Europe.

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## jhungary

Brainsucker said:


> Not since Afghanistan. They have already have some experience in Chechnya and Georgia. And recently they have some military operation in Syria, to help Assad.



Chenchen, Syria and Georgia is not the same tho, those are non-peer enemy. Ukraine on the other hand is a peer enemy, they know how the Russian operate and big enough to put up reasonable resistance.



BigMelatonin said:


> Yeah mate they will fight under the rubble.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497720949227102210
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497834430659919872
> That's why Azov is killing civilians who try to flee (there are videos I will not post as it may be against the rules) and the government is calling for foreign volunteers to help them fight. Those are the actions of a well motivated population.
> 
> And that was my entire point, that's why they are not carrying out those kinds of tactics, to the point that their own forces are criticizing the policy.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497920342815350784



Please do not quote me again.

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## Messerschmitt

jamahir said:


> Why doesn't the march have to do with Libya and Syria ? I again ask, if that was really an *anti-war* march then the wars in Libya and Syria should have been mentioned too. Are they not happening on Earth ?


Okay, I think now I get your point. So your main problem is the fact that the tweet described the protests as being "anti-war" (in general) even though it was directed against the Russian invasion of Ukraine specifically and not all wars happening in the world collectively, right? Well, you can call it an "anti war against Ukraine" protest instead if you like. I think calling a protest against a war happening "anti-war" is reasonable.


jamahir said:


> Are there not wars going on there which, which were initiated by NATO whose one member is your country Germany's government and military ? Or will you only talk of wars not initiated by NATO ?


Again, this thread is about the "Russia-Ukraine War". If you like to have discussions about other wars, feel free to do so in their respective thread.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497701300368289792

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## Taimoor Khan

gambit said:


> Not our fault if the Soviet Union and China *REFUSED* to help Iraq. It is not as if Iraq did not know that it was going to be *SEVERELY* outnumbered. And where was your Pakistan? But then again, maybe after Moscow and Beijing ran the numbers, they decided to say FU to Baghdad. This is war, not a boxing match. In wars, you gain numerical superiority in both hardware and manpower whenever and with whoever you can, failure and/or refusal to do so, do not complain if you lose. And as for the peanut gallery -- *YOU* -- mocking the winners when you lost no skin in the game just made you look foolish and ignorant.



Clam your t!ts down kid. 

First understand and *READ *the background of statement. What I wrote was in regards to some American poodles moaning that hey look its been three days and Ruskies havent occupied Ukraine yet. They have failed already! It was in response to remind all these idiots with memory lapses as to how long it took yanks and its allies to occupy Iraq? Iraq which was left on it's own (unlike Ukraine), an Iraq with every neighbour fingering it all over, an Iraq which got ZERO support of any sort, an Iraq which got no military industries like Ukraine, an Iraq which got bombed indiscriminately by yanks and its allies. While you at it, remind us all how long it took to occupy it? 

Savy?

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## White privilege

RescueRanger said:


> Looks like It's a SMERCH rocket:
> View attachment 819305


Talk about _cutting it close...._

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## vizier

Some news suggest that Turkey is about to apply Montreux convention article 19 limiting Russian ships and only the ships belonging to Russian bases would enter the straits. This move has risks within itself. This can be a right move or not the risks should be calculated. Russia may not attack directly to a nato country but for example putin will try to influence nearby countries for example Greece to pressure Turkey which are both nato members. Everyone should be careful and aim to end the conflict as soon as possible in my opinion this should be the main target and at the same time we all should block this fire spread to somewhere else igniting a worldwide conflict.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497628227136897029


----------



## LeGenD

Stealth said:


> Since when Russia has used their air power? the day and time when Russians will start using their full air power, i wouldnt be surprise if they take out entire Ukrainian AD in max 1 - 2 hours... Even Russians still using regular troops .. no special units


Dude? Russia have launched a Shock & Awe campaign in Ukraine on a scale not witnessed in a long time from the Russian side. Just wait for the statistics to become more clear. For perspective, hundreds of TBMs have been used by now, let alone other types of munitions which are manufactured and used in much higher quantities.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497941931879452673


----------



## RescueRanger

This is very troubling:

https://****/RKadyrov_95/1265
^ Use the in browser feature to translate!


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497930790902157321


----------



## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> British Foreign Secretary Elizabeth Truss said she would unconditionally support individual Brits who decide to go to war with Russian troops in Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liz Truss ‘absolutely’ supports individual Brits going to fight in Ukraine
> 
> 
> ‘Of course that is something that people can make their own decisions about’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Special forces will begin to cross into Ukraine in 'volunteers' packaging. If Putin does not put an end to this, a new Syria will be created in the middle of Europe.



Not special forces, _*mercenaries.*_

*This will be an escalation. *

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## dBSPL

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497701300368289792


Thanks to UK and US shipments in recent months, Ukraine has acquired thousands of short and medium range AT missiles. We do not know how many launcher there are, but were there enough ATGM teams in the Ukrainian army? Because as far as I can tell, Ukraine's asymmetric warfare strategy is currently based on these systems.

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## Vergennes

Destroyed and abandoned russian equipment

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## Ali_Baba

Belarus poised to declare war on Ukraine​ 









Ukraine war: Belarus poised to declare war


The Ukrainian state security service has officially reported that a rocket attack on Zhytomyr Airport - located some 93 miles west of Kiev - was launched from the territory of Belarus.




www.dailymail.co.uk





>> War is not going well that Russia has ask Belaru to get involved.

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## Wergeland

From a historic perspective, the Ukro-Russian War we are witnessing is essentlialy a civil war within the Russian civilization.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497938505682591752


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497936741973610500

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497948638689079299

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497950225851305996

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497948720368869376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497872297855795200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497950029209866241

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## dBSPL

RescueRanger said:


> Not special forces, _*mercenaries.*_
> 
> *This will be an escalation. *


As Russia did with Wagner in various countries.

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## Clutch

dBSPL said:


> British Foreign Secretary Elizabeth Truss said she would unconditionally support individual Brits who decide to go to war with Russian troops in Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liz Truss ‘absolutely’ supports individual Brits going to fight in Ukraine
> 
> 
> ‘Of course that is something that people can make their own decisions about’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Special forces will begin to cross into Ukraine in 'volunteers' packaging. If Putin does not put an end to this, a new Syria will be created in the middle of Europe.




So she is officially starting a British Jihad?.... It's all good and kosher (halal) now????


----------



## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> As Russia did with Wagner in various countries.


As the US did with XE and the UK did with Trippel Canopy too.

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## Meengla

It would seem logical for Russia to occupy enough of Ukraine to keep Kiev under constant future threats while making a ceasefire asap. The mission will be accomplished for Russia. No Ukraine govt in the foreseeable future would dare join NATO. In such a scenario, Russian losses--which appear considerable already--would be lessened. * And I think China would make a historic mistake to not fully support Russia achieve its objectives in Ukraine*. A Ukraine occupied in its eastern region, in north of Kiev, and blocked sea access in the south would be not much of a sovereign country left. Of course the West will be glad to keep bleeding Russia in a prolonged war while paying lip service to Ukrainians. 
I am _not _saying such things should happen but from the perspective of Russia and China they are the desired outcomes.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497949056781463555

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497951229275779076

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497945869836079107


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497924749640491016


----------



## dBSPL

Clutch said:


> So she is officially starting a British Jihad?.... It's all good and kosher (halal) now????


Queen's Jihad vs Kremlin's(Kadyrov stayla) jihad


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497937289359630340

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497952292351455233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497952782694899713

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497952589895323652

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## dBSPL

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497937289359630340


Send more helmets

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## Saho

Surely someone within Putin’s circle is going to attempt coup d’etat for the sake of the country? 

Russia is being isolated internationally to the extreme. There is noway for him to undo the damage.

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## maverick1977

Saho said:


> Surely someone within Putin’s circle is going to attempt coup d’etat for the sake of the country?
> 
> Russia is being isolated internationally to the extreme. There is noway for him to undo the damage.




Not sure if they are, there is a reason why they are doing this and backed by China for sure.


----------



## K_Bin_W

Saho said:


> Surely someone within Putin’s circle is going to attempt coup d’etat for the sake of the country?
> 
> Russia is being isolated internationally to the extreme. There is noway for him to undo the damage.


Yeah and I will be the new Tsar of Russia...


----------



## Beast

Saho said:


> Surely someone within Putin’s circle is going to attempt coup d’etat for the sake of the country?
> 
> Russia is being isolated internationally to the extreme. There is noway for him to undo the damage.


Another poor attempt by western to discredit Putin.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497952893399449603

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## obj 705A

Steppe Wolff said:


> Chances of Air Raids? Russian Junk?
> 🤣🤣🤣
> Russian junk demolished most of Ukrainian air defense and airforce in 48 hours.
> Stop watching Western Propaganda and come to reality.


LOL this @1ndy guy probably still believes in the "ghost of Kiev".

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## RescueRanger

Saho said:


> Surely someone within Putin’s circle is going to attempt coup d’etat for the sake of the country?
> 
> Russia is being isolated internationally to the extreme. There is noway for him to undo the damage.






The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497952893399449603


Lovely people really.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497942633922105350

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## Wergeland

thetutle said:


> If you dont respect and appreciate your freedoms in a free country, I will always encourage you to use your freedom and go live in a tyranny and leave space for someone that actually wants freedom. Like some Ukrainian family to come and take your place.



I encourage you to be as brave as youre big mouthed on this forum. If you dare, take with you Ukrainian Sissys or Nazis and i will do what i have to do. Then we will see who ends up in my beloved Norway and who ends up in hell.


----------



## Bilal.

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497952893399449603


Lol! Someone tell him it doesn’t work
Like that.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497953639356317704

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497954064910454795

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497954432386048005

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497954445015101440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497954639710404612


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497953698252824584


----------



## thetutle

dBSPL said:


> *BREAKING NEWS
> Turkish Foreign Minister Çavuşoğlu: "Is there a war or a conflict here? We have made our decision. Article 19 is very clear. This is a war."*
> 
> Turkiye is preparing to implement the 19th article of the Montreux Convention. I think, Straits are closing to warships.



How smart is this? I would hate turkey to stick its neck out and then the europeans say, we dont agree with this. Lets all be friends.

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## RescueRanger

Bilal. said:


> Lol! Someone tell him it doesn’t work
> Like that.


These bigots think bacon and lard are kryptonite for Muslims #Retards

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## The SC

Bilal. said:


> Lol! Someone tell him it doesn’t work
> Like that.


They seem to be scared of Chechens to go that far in trying to deter them..

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## WinterFangs

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497947370008547332
an-225 confirmed to be destroyed, despite many reports including antonov saying It was still intact.

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## kingQamaR

Saho said:


> Surely someone within Putin’s circle is going to attempt coup d’etat for the sake of the country?
> 
> Russia is being isolated internationally to the extreme. There is noway for him to undo the damage.



This will end up as Putins graveyard. When the western weapons reach Ukraine there will be know way that the Russian Army will be able to conquer the whole country. Meanwhile Russia and its economy will be go down the toilet. Hyperinflation is just around the corner for the poor Russian people who the vast majority didnt want Putins war.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497952409913548808

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## Reichmarshal

dBSPL said:


> British Foreign Secretary Elizabeth Truss said she would unconditionally support individual Brits who decide to go to war with Russian troops in Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liz Truss ‘absolutely’ supports individual Brits going to fight in Ukraine
> 
> 
> ‘Of course that is something that people can make their own decisions about’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Special forces will begin to cross into Ukraine in 'volunteers' packaging. If Putin does not put an end to this, a new Syria will be created in the middle of Europe.


Wt a bunch of f@#king hypocrites these Europeans are

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497898218805501954

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497872203072819200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497930195868782595

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497955720184180739

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497952062562349062


----------



## RescueRanger

*Breaking: Negotiations have reportedly broken down!*

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## obj 705A

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497937289359630340


Wait whatever happened to social distancing? Did Covid take a vacation?

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## White privilege

WinterFangs said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497947370008547332
> an-225 confirmed to be destroyed, despite many reports including antonov saying It was still intact.


Yeah what about this baby....??
Surely some satellite can confirm its fate.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497953304378327043

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497956135462182914

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497955281954824194

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497955314850832388

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497956339448004612


----------



## WinterFangs

White privilege said:


> Yeah what about this baby....??
> Surely some satellite can confirm its fate.


The baby is no longer here, the only an-225 has been confirmed destroyed.


----------



## Meengla

thetutle said:


> How smart is this? I would hate turkey to stick its neck out and then the europeans say, we dont agree with this. Lets all be friends.



Not at all smart of Turkey to close the access for Russian ships. The less the number of countries are involved, the better! This war can really go out of hand. It should be stopped asap! From the language Putin has used in last few days, *he may well go to extremes to achieve his objectives and to even burn down the whole Europe if he perceives he's going down*. This war is a Godsend for China and they are likely to achieve Russia to the fullest possible extent, meaning Russia is capable of prolonged destruction if desperate. War is madness and has its own brutal, sudden illogic!

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## RescueRanger

Reichmarshal said:


> Wt a bunch of f@#king hypocrites these Europeans are


They are fine with foreign fighters laughing themselves from their soil when it suits them. There is a very strong lesson in this for those watching.

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## Clutch

RescueRanger said:


> These bigots think bacon and lard are kryptonite for Muslims #Retards




These islamaphobes don't realize that Islam even allows the eating of pork if it is a matter of live or death. ...

They are wasting their time dipping .... And should be fighting on the front lines.

Confirms that the Ukrainian Azov Nazi agenda....

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## dBSPL

Another jet is reported to have down near Chernobyl. It is not yet known which side's aircraft.


----------



## nufix

RescueRanger said:


> Lovely people really.



We knew already that Ukrainians have right wing extremism tendencies. This war just made it clear for everyone to see.

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## kingQamaR

The reality that the breathless news coverage hasn't stated yet: Putin has been playing it soft so far in Ukraine. That's why the civilian death count isn't that high so far. If this monster feels he isn't getting his way, he's going to deploy the thermobaric weapons he dropped in places like Syria (which the US also dropped in Afghanistan!), which completely demolished whole blocks, and massacred thousands of civilians. Thermobaric weapons are capable of crushing internal organs, or completely vaporising human beings, depending on how close they are

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497947456885170182

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497931328322514947

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497957586204778509


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497941625036623872

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## Clutch




----------



## zartosht

dBSPL said:


> *BREAKING NEWS
> Turkish Foreign Minister Çavuşoğlu: "Is there a war or a conflict here? We have made our decision. Article 19 is very clear. This is a war."*
> 
> Turkiye is preparing to implement the 19th article of the Montreux Convention. I think, Straits are closing to warships.



Turkish ownership of dandallese is on EXTREMELY shaky ground. In every other such body of water, it has been classified as an international passage way.

The Entire reason turkey was allowed to join nato was to act as a nuke absorber for the more important western europeans, but also to keep the dandallese closed to Russia. Nato is the only reason why this turkish illegal claim has been allowed to stand.

Iran should start taking notes. After We openly build nukes, Iran should declare the straight of hormuz as Iranian property, and any ship passing Iranian territorial waters (the only section major commercial ships can safely navigates) must get Iranian permission.

Turkey is playing a dangerous game. If Russia calls their bluff and sends a few warships, it would put turkey in a very very bad spot

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497958453935054854

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497957330901733379


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497954284134088709


----------



## jamahir

Messerschmitt said:


> Okay, I think now I get your point. So your main problem is the fact that the tweet described the protests as being "anti-war" (in general) even though it was directed against the Russian invasion of Ukraine specifically and not all wars happening in the world collectively, right?



Correct.



Messerschmitt said:


> Well, you can call it an "anti war against Ukraine" protest instead if you like.



Yes we can.



Messerschmitt said:


> I think calling a protest against a war happening "anti-war" is reasonable.



Well, that would be playing with the intention behind the words.



Messerschmitt said:


> Again, this thread is about the "Russia-Ukraine War". If you like to have discussions about other wars, feel free to do so in their respective thread.



Then lets talk about the Russia-Ukraine war. Now this "anti-war" march in Minsk has the marchers carrying Ukraine flags. Minsk is the capital of Belarus where until a few days ago Belarus and Russia had military exercises and from where Russian forces entered the Ukraine war just three days ago. So in this for these Belarus people to hold an "anti-war" march carrying Ukraine flags indicates to me to be a CIA operation to divide the Belarus public.

Similarly was the "peace" gathering in Moscow day-before-yesterday. I am sure a CIA operation. It can be the people of that chess-player-turned-CIA-funded-politician Garry Kasparov. Look at his tweets :


----------



## obj 705A

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497953304378327043
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497956135462182914
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497955281954824194
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497955314850832388
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497956339448004612



LOL I thought our own comical Ali was a master in BS claims of victory but damn you are putting him to shame.
I'm 100% sure now at some point you will be claiming the fake "ghost of Kiev" has killed 30 thousand Russian soldiers, shoot down 100 Fighters and destroyed five thousand tanks

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## nufix

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497958453935054854
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497957330901733379


Yeah, low level because Russia kept it that way. The ball is in Russian‘s hands right now whether to intensify or not. Pray that Russia is not choosing the former.


----------



## Meengla

Ceasefire asap. This really can go out of hand for at least Europe, if not for many other countries. I don't think Putin is going to settle for less than at least a Ukraine neutrality after suffering so many losses.


----------



## Falcon29

dBSPL said:


> British Foreign Secretary Elizabeth Truss said she would unconditionally support individual Brits who decide to go to war with Russian troops in Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liz Truss ‘absolutely’ supports individual Brits going to fight in Ukraine
> 
> 
> ‘Of course that is something that people can make their own decisions about’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Special forces will begin to cross into Ukraine in 'volunteers' packaging. If Putin does not put an end to this, a new Syria will be created in the middle of Europe.


European Jihad , lol. 

I guess everyone are Jihadis then huh.


----------



## terry5

EXCLUSIVE: 
Belarus 'to join Ukraine invasion' and preparing for air assault on Kyiv​Ukrainian intelligence has learned from within Belarus that “special ops” troops have been spotted loading up planes for a major attack







Belarussian special ops are set to join Russia in the attack on Ukraine (
Image: MINISTRY OF DEFENCE REPUBLIC OF)

NEWS
POLITICS
FOOTBALL
CELEBS


By
Chris HughesDefence and Security Editor
12:22, 27 Feb 2022
UPDATED13:02, 27 Feb 2022









|
48
COMMENTS
Belarus special forces are believed to be preparing to assault the Ukrainian capital Kyiv, the Daily Mirror can reveal.
Ukrainian intelligence has learned from within Belarus that “special ops” troops have been spotted loading up planes for a major attack.

A senior Ukrainian source told the Daily Mirror: “If this happens it will mean Belarus has openly joined Russia in its invasion of sovereign Ukraine.
“We believe they are being targeted at Kyiv and Zhytomir.”
For weeks during the Russian build up large numbers of Moscow’s elite Spetsnaz troops were on so-called “exercises” with their Belarus counterparts.

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## Inception-06

jhungary said:


> Thanks for your question. You don't need to call me sir unless you planned to enlist
> 
> Anyway, I try my best to answer your question.
> 
> 1.) Now before I say anything, I am not going to pretend I know what's Russia is doing, I wasn't trained by the Russian, I was trained by the US, which follow NATO Doctrine. I did study how Russia or Soviet Union conduct war extensively, so I probably have some insight on their mind on operation.
> 
> Now, going back to your question, why Russia has underestimated Ukraine warfighting capability? Well, many different issue. The usual suspect is failure to collect relevant intelligence, failure to interpret said intelligence, over estimate their own combat capability, all the way down to general laziness.
> 
> However, I think (again, I don't know, so take it anyway as you will) the major reason why the Russian underperform is because they have to, the were tied by their own perspective. The Russia see this war as a liberation, which mean they cannot just went in with all the troop and swarm the entire country, that is evident that the Russian troop in Brest had not move to cut off Western Ukraine from Lviv to Odessa. Because once they did that, they will virtually cut off the entire country, no supplies could come in and out of Ukraine, people are stuck there. Which would create a humanitarian problem the Russian Public do not want. Which mean by that, they can't really deal with the issue head on.
> 
> The entire operational planning is to have Ukraine submit by separating military and civilian, but that planning is based on faulty intelligence, if you understand what I am talking about.
> 
> 2.) Yes, I don't think Russia is trained on MOUT (Military Operation in Urban Terrain) also, they can't do what the usual Soviet Doctrine dictated on Ukraine. which is level the city and by-pass the city center, and starve the residence into submission. They can't really do that in Ukraine....
> 
> 3.) I think the core problem is what I have been saying for a long time, both on PDF and elsewhere, the dependence on cruise and tactical missile. Notice that Russia seems to try to preserve the Airforce and not fly their plane as much as they uses missile. While you can destroy hard target but missile being a point to point attacking tool, the damage is limited. Which mean damage done to them can be repaired quickly. Take a look on this Satellite Photo of Chuhuiv Airbase (near Kharkiv) after missile strike on the 24th February
> 
> View attachment 819298
> 
> 
> You can see the airport being hit and black smoke bellowing from the control tower or some sort of administration building area. But the airfield is largely intact, with proper Field Traffic Control, this airport is "Operational" until the runway is render useless or the airport itself is taken by the Russian (which I think they did, but don't quote me on that)
> 
> The over reliant on missile contribute to the effectiveness of air campaign. That is the reason why the Russian are having trouble taking Air Superiority. The only real way to do that is to fly 24/7 sorties all the way around Ukraine, but that will expose Russian fighter with SAM and other Anti-Air Asset.
> 
> 4.) That I can't tell you. I can guess, probably the reason is that Russia brush aside the effectiveness of those NATO weapon being handed to Ukraine. Either they have not studied how we run into trouble with our Bradley and Abrams on Iraqi with RPG in tight corner, and now Ukrainian are doing the same to Russia using RPG, N-LAW and Javelin. Or they somehow think their tank are better defended against those handheld ATGM than the American Tank? That is probably the best answer I can tell you, as for why they do what I think they did? I honestly don't know, that depends on their military tradition, and as I said, I am not trained with it.
> 
> 5.) I think they did, they have anticipated NATO help with intelligence front in general, using all available technology at their disposal, flying EMINT sorties, Using Satellite and anything from SIGINT to HUMINT. But there are pretty much nothing Russia can do to that directly because that would involve attacking NATO asset. The only thing Russia can do is to cut off communication between NATO and Ukraine, which is nearly impossible in this information age.
> 
> 6.) As with any military, some unit are well train and some unit are not. In Russia case, there are draftee and professional soldier. Current intelligence suggest that 20% of those are national serviceman, which mean the quality of Russian troop are uneven. Depends on what Russia actually sent to Ukraine, quality can vary.
> 
> However, judging by numerous video leaked/released on purpose, I have a feeling that Russian soldier in theatre is not taking the war seriously. If you have seen a video about a Ukrainian in a car driven by a BMP that run out of fuel and he ask "If he can tow him back to Russia"? That exchange would not have happened if Russian are taking this seriously, I am not saying the soldier should have shoot the man, but I am saying they would have wave him off and not taking a friendly stance. That suggest the war we saw and the war Russian told to its soldier are two different thing.
> 
> 7.) Yes, especially when they split the advance up into 3, that mean you have 3 logistical responsibility instead of one. General Westly Clark commented on a TV program today saying Russia is choosing the complicated way to invade Ukraine, his guess is that Russia want to finish this operation ASAP, but that mean you now have 3 logistic problem instead of 1. Also, traditional Soviet tactics uses a large armor column to sweep thru the area with overwhelming power, this would not do well unless Russia can catch up with their logistic operation. And that is an issue if they split their force in 3.
> 
> In my assessment, I said Day 7 would be D-Day on this war, because by then we will know how much Russia have prepared for in terms of logistic, by Day 7, the Russian should have exhausted what they brought with them, which will expose their logistic problem if they have any, because if they didn't prepare and cannot catch up, the whole operation will fall apart, and Ukraine can really win this thing, normally I would not think this is going to be that but seeing how Russian fight, I am not too sure now.
> 
> 8.) Well, I think that goes back to my answer to question 6. They act like they are on peacekeeping mission (Which ironically is what Putin tell the world, maybe they did tell the troop that? I don't know) instead of an invasion. The convoy run without flank security and forward security in warzone would most likely be ambush or cut to piece. You don't run convoy like that or you will end up like what happened to Jessica Lynch (Her convoy was lost and ambushed and wipe out by Iraqi near Nasiriyah.
> 
> From my perspective, this does not live up to the Russian army hype. I think it's safe to say most Military Pundit like me or anyone else would expect a quick victory seeing how enormous different between the Armed Force of Russia and the Armed Force of Ukraine. But I don't see the advantage show in this war. I don't see effective communication, effective deployment of force or even appraisal of the entire situation.
> 
> Now that said, this operation is not going to be representing the true capability of Russia. As there are a lot of thing they can do and a lot of thing they cannot do. But all in all, I don't see at least in this war. Russia is as strong as they projected.
> 
> I hope I have answered your question in a satisfactory manner. If you have any other question, please feel free to ask.



Thanks for detailed answer. Last question, if the Russians are not gaining their goal’s to their satisfaction, because of the fluent and unstoppable NATO support, do you see a chance of more Russian escalation along the Eastern NATO Border or would Russia sharpen more the nuclear Forces in to firing positions, should we take the actual nuclear threats of Putin (recently showed up in AP news) as a serious threat and alarming situation ? Or are we Far from the nuclear trigger? 

I could have written and ask the question better- But I am not fluent in English. 

By the way its a honour to have you here in PDF.

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## jamahir

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497937289359630340



Hypocrites !



terry5 said:


> EXCLUSIVE:
> Belarus 'to join Ukraine invasion' and preparing for air assault on Kyiv​Ukrainian intelligence has learned from within Belarus that “special ops” troops have been spotted loading up planes for a major attack
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Belarussian special ops are set to join Russia in the attack on Ukraine (
> Image: MINISTRY OF DEFENCE REPUBLIC OF)
> 
> NEWS
> POLITICS
> FOOTBALL
> CELEBS
> 
> 
> By
> Chris HughesDefence and Security Editor
> 12:22, 27 Feb 2022
> UPDATED13:02, 27 Feb 2022
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> |
> 48
> COMMENTS
> Belarus special forces are believed to be preparing to assault the Ukrainian capital Kyiv, the Daily Mirror can reveal.
> Ukrainian intelligence has learned from within Belarus that “special ops” troops have been spotted loading up planes for a major attack.
> 
> A senior Ukrainian source told the Daily Mirror: “If this happens it will mean Belarus has openly joined Russia in its invasion of sovereign Ukraine.
> “We believe they are being targeted at Kyiv and Zhytomir.”
> For weeks during the Russian build up large numbers of Moscow’s elite Spetsnaz troops were on so-called “exercises” with their Belarus counterparts.



Good !


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## beijingwalker

When China and India are not against Russia, it's already half of the humanity.

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## terry5

rebel 'who blew up 140 tanks in Syria' offers to fight for Ukraine​Syrian rebel Suheil al-Hammoud, known as 'Abu Al Taw' who reportedly destroyed over 140 tanks in the Syrian Civil War has revealed he wants to fight in Ukraine







Syrian rebel Suheil al-Hammoud wants to help Ukraine (
Image: @suheilhammoud/Twitter)

NEWS
POLITICS
FOOTBALL
CELEBS



By
John BettAudience Writer
John James
15:26, 27 Feb 2022








|
COMMENTS
A freedom fighter from Syria who 'took out over 140' tanks has offered to help Ukraine fight off the Russian invasion.
Suheil al-Hammoud gained notoriety during the Syrian Civil War when he used American anti-tank missiles to wipe out Assad's tanks.

The Free Syrian Army rebel has now tweeted his support for the Ukrainian resistors and asked how he could get involved, as the Daily Star reports.
On Saturday, February 26, he said: "How can I go to Ukraine and fight alongside the Ukrainian army. Is there a way? I'm ready."
The militant would undoubtedly help matters on the ground because as combat CVs go, his is particularly impressive.
Luckily for Suheil al-Hamoud, it's actually quite easy to join up to fight.


War-torn Ukraine is establishing an "international" legion for volunteers from across the world – including Brits – who wish to take on "full Tonto" Vladimir Putin themselves. 

In a statement delivered from Kyiv after three days of fighting, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy called on people across the world to volunteer to defend Ukrainian sovereignty against Russian invaders.


dBSPL said:


> British Foreign Secretary Elizabeth Truss said she would unconditionally support individual Brits who decide to go to war with Russian troops in Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liz Truss ‘absolutely’ supports individual Brits going to fight in Ukraine
> 
> 
> ‘Of course that is something that people can make their own decisions about’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Special forces will begin to cross into Ukraine in 'volunteers' packaging. If Putin does not put an end to this, a new Syria will be created in the middle of Europe.

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## Messerschmitt

jamahir said:


> Then lets talk about the Russia-Ukraine war. Now this "anti-war" march in Minsk has the marchers carrying Ukraine flags. Minsk is the capital of Belarus where until a few days ago Belarus and Russia had military exercises and from where Russian forces entered the Ukraine war just three days ago. So in this for these Belarus people to hold an "anti-war" march carrying Ukraine flags indicates to me to be a CIA operation to divide the Belarus public.


If you want to believe that Belarusians protesting against the Russian invasion of their neighbour Ukraine while their government is complicit with Russia is in fact a CIA operation, then you can do that.


----------



## jhungary

Meengla said:


> It would seem logical for Russia to occupy enough of Ukraine to keep Kiev under constant future threats while making a ceasefire asap. The mission will be accomplished for Russia. No Ukraine govt in the foreseeable future would dare join NATO. In such a scenario, Russian losses--which appear considerable already--would be lessened. * And I think China would make a historic mistake to not fully support Russia achieve its objectives in Ukraine*. A Ukraine occupied in its eastern region, in north of Kiev, and blocked sea access in the south would be not much of a sovereign country left. Of course the West will be glad to keep bleeding Russia in a prolonged war while paying lip service to Ukrainians.
> I am _not _saying such things should happen but from the perspective of Russia and China they are the desired outcomes.



This does not brew right with the Chinese perspective though.

Chinese perspective is that they do not engage in other nation affair, unless China stance is for Ukraine not to be a sovereignty, this is going to be tough on China isolationist view. The Problem is, Ukraine is (or was or whatever) Chinese main Strategic partner with their help on Chinese Carrier and Fighter plane design. Would they betray Ukraine like this for a no-gain posture with Russia?

China is smart not to fully support Russia on this.

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## Clutch

beijingwalker said:


> When China and India are not against Russia, it's already half of the humanity.




China will most probably hold its ground and support Russia. But India will flip on a dime of the Western powers come knocking on Indian door saying WTF?


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## RescueRanger

terry5 said:


> rebel 'who blew up 140 tanks in Syria' offers to fight for Ukraine​Syrian rebel Suheil al-Hammoud, known as 'Abu Al Taw' who reportedly destroyed over 140 tanks in the Syrian Civil War has revealed he wants to fight in Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Syrian rebel Suheil al-Hammoud wants to help Ukraine (
> Image: @suheilhammoud/Twitter)
> 
> NEWS
> POLITICS
> FOOTBALL
> CELEBS
> 
> 
> 
> By
> John BettAudience Writer
> John James
> 15:26, 27 Feb 2022
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> |
> COMMENTS
> A freedom fighter from Syria who 'took out over 140' tanks has offered to help Ukraine fight off the Russian invasion.
> Suheil al-Hammoud gained notoriety during the Syrian Civil War when he used American anti-tank missiles to wipe out Assad's tanks.
> 
> The Free Syrian Army rebel has now tweeted his support for the Ukrainian resistors and asked how he could get involved, as the Daily Star reports.
> On Saturday, February 26, he said: "How can I go to Ukraine and fight alongside the Ukrainian army. Is there a way? I'm ready."
> The militant would undoubtedly help matters on the ground because as combat CVs go, his is particularly impressive.
> Luckily for Suheil al-Hamoud, it's actually quite easy to join up to fight.
> 
> 
> War-torn Ukraine is establishing an "international" legion for volunteers from across the world – including Brits – who wish to take on "full Tonto" Vladimir Putin themselves.
> 
> In a statement delivered from Kyiv after three days of fighting, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy called on people across the world to volunteer to defend Ukrainian sovereignty against Russian invaders.




*This is all going to get Mad Max really fast. Good let Europe implode on itself. *

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## Aesterix

Clutch said:


> These islamaphobes don't realize that Islam even allows the eating of pork if it is a matter of live or death. ...
> 
> They are wasting their time dipping .... And should be fighting on the front lines.
> 
> Confirms that the Ukrainian Azov Nazi agenda....



Only enough to stay alive until you find Halal food.


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## kingQamaR

I’m beginning to really feel sorry for the poor Russian soldiers in this conflict. They are dying big numbers Russia army intel sucks ? Ukrainian got latest anti tank missiles you really making them drive convoys on roads unsecured by troops ahead to be butchered. Lots of people said, T90 in Syria proved itself im sorry I’m seeing lots of pictures of them being destroyed in Ukraine. Pakistan i’m guessing is watching T90 performance in Ukraine Syrians we’re a joke-

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## Clutch

RescueRanger said:


> *This is all going to get Mad Max really fast. Good let Europe implode on itself. *



If Turkey blocks the port access Russia will respond. And that would mean NATO is in direct conflict with Russia because one of their members has been attacked. It's Warr all over Europe after that.

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## RescueRanger

kingQamaR said:


> I’m beginning to really feel sorry for the poor Russian soldiers in this conflict. They are dying big numbers Russia army intel sucks ? Ukrainian got latest anti tank missiles you really making them drive convoys on roads unsecured by troops ahead to be butchered. Lots of people said, T90 in Syria proved itself im sorry I’m seeing lots of pictures of them being destroyed in Ukraine. Pakistan i’m guessing is watching T90 performance in Ukraine Syrians we’re a joke-



I strongly suggest you read this before thinking the Intel sucks:
https://****/RKadyrov_95/1265
There is more at play here then what we can see in propaganda tweets and in mainstream media which is only showing one side of the conflict.

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## dBSPL

zartosht said:


> Turkish ownership of dandallese is on EXTREMELY shaky ground. In every other such body of water, it has been classified as an international passage way.
> 
> The Entire reason turkey was allowed to join nato was to act as a nuke absorber for the more important western europeans, but also to keep the dandallese closed to Russia. Nato is the only reason why this turkish illegal claim has been allowed to stand.
> 
> Iran should start taking notes. After We openly build nukes, Iran should declare the straight of hormuz as Iranian property, and any ship passing Iranian territorial waters (the only section major commercial ships can safely navigates) must get Iranian permission.
> 
> Turkey is playing a dangerous game. If Russia calls their bluff and sends a few warships, it would put turkey in a very very bad spot


The only reason Turkey entered NATO was because Stalin had territorial claims on Turkey and wanted to establish Russian military control of the straits.

The Montreux agreement and the Straits Convention are in effect with the signature of Russia. (Guarantor states Turkey, Bulgaria, France, England, Japan, Romania, Soviet Union, Yugoslavia and Greece) It is the only international water in which the US navy cannot show an effective naval presence, thanks to its contain.

The main purpose of the Montreux Convention is to reconcile the requirements and benefits of international maritime trade with these rights, while preserving the sovereign rights of the Republic of Turkey, which is a coastal state. In other words, a new transition regime from the Straits was accepted with Montreux, and the responsibility for the implementation and supervision of this new regime was given to Turkey.

In time of war, if Turkey is not a belligerent, warships shall enjoy full freedom of passage and round-trip (transportation) in the Straits, under the same conditions as those specified in Articles 10 to 18. However, warships of any warring State shall be prohibited from passing through the Straits.

Warships belonging to warring States, littoral or non-Black Sea, that have left their mooring ports may return to these ports.

Warships of the Warring States are prohibited from attempting any seizure, exercise of right of control (visit) and any other hostile act in the Straits.

Article 19 does not constitute an obstacle for ships of the Russian Black Sea navy to return to their bases.

Don't make yourself ridiculous by talking about things you really don't know.

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## Falcon29

RescueRanger said:


> I strongly suggest you read this before thinking the Intel sucks:
> https://****/RKadyrov_95/1265
> There is more at play here then what we can see in propaganda tweets and in mainstream media which is only showing one side of the conflict.



So that guy was right about 2022 being the year Palestine is liberated.


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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> The only reason Turkey entered NATO was because Stalin had territorial claims on Turkey and wanted to establish Russian military control of the straits.
> 
> The Montreux agreement and the Straits Convention are in effect with the signature of Russia. (Guarantor states Turkey, Bulgaria, France, England, Japan, Romania, Soviet Union, Yugoslavia and Greece) It is the only international water in which the US navy cannot show an effective naval presence.
> 
> The main purpose of the Montreux Convention is to reconcile the requirements and benefits of international maritime trade with these rights, while preserving the sovereign rights of the Republic of Turkey, which is a coastal state. In other words, a new transition regime from the Straits was accepted with Montreux, and the responsibility for the implementation and supervision of this new regime was given to Turkey.
> 
> In time of war, if Turkey is not a belligerent, warships shall enjoy full freedom of passage and round-trip (transportation) in the Straits, under the same conditions as those specified in Articles 10 to 18. However, warships of any warring State shall be prohibited from passing through the Straits.
> 
> Warships belonging to warring States, littoral or non-Black Sea, that have left their mooring ports may return to these ports.
> 
> Warships of the Warring States are prohibited from attempting any seizure, exercise of right of control (visit) and any other hostile act in the Straits.
> 
> Article 19 does not constitute an obstacle for ships of the Russian Black Sea navy to return to their bases.
> 
> Don't make yourself ridiculous by talking about things you really don't know.


Ignore his message, that is what happens when you don't bother reading history.


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## jamal18

Scott Ritter is a former UN arms inspector in Iraq. An American, but he doesn't tow the American line. Very good interview for all those who still believe ' Mad man Putin attacked Ukraine' narrative.

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## Falcon29

Clutch said:


> If Turkey blocks the port access Russia will respond. And that would mean NATO is in direct conflict with Russia because one of their members has been attacked. It's Warr all over Europe after that.


Illuminati is trying to depopulate us, fvck! This is all sus !


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## jhungary

Inception-06 said:


> Thanks for detailed answer. Last question, if the Russians are not gaining their goal’s to their satisfaction, because of the fluent and unstoppable NATO support, do you see a chance of more Russian escalation along the Eastern NATO Border or would Russia sharpen more the nuclear Forces in to firing positions, should we take the actual nuclear threats of Putin (recently showed up in AP news) as a serious threat and alarming situation ? Or are we Far from the nuclear trigger?
> 
> I could have written and ask the question better- But I am not fluent in English.
> 
> By the way its a honour to have you here in PDF.



No, you're fine, I totally understood what you are saying.....

About your question. The N- Word (No, not that N word, I mean the nuclear weapon)

As you know, Russia has put its Nuclear Weapon in high alert (it was on my phone and people are going crazy over it) What I would see is US, UK and France will similarly put their Nuclear Force in high alert. Which effectively escalating the whole situation. 

However, I also foresee an outside factor. China. First, you need to understand this, without Chinese support Russia war in Ukraine would be 10 times harder with sanction going on. Second, any purposed Nuclear Exchange in Europe or US will undoubtedly affect China. So would China willing to go that far for something they do not start? I doubt it. At this point, I am expecting Chinese to go against Russia nuclear threat because it done nothing on China as this is the few time I say China is probably innocent in all these. Yet any kind of nuclear move would undoubtedly drag China on a thermonuclear war. 

I don't think China would want that, and China have the leash on Putin, because that was his last piggybank (I don't suppose Syria+Belarus+CAS region combine are close to as rich as China) So I think China would be the first to say no, you are going too far. I believe Threatening Nuclear Option will just make China withdraw their support. They already did not vote with Russia on the UNSC resolution (China voted Abstain instead of Veto) That show you they don't really buy into this war. 

Not sure if you think what I said make sense

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## RescueRanger

Falcon29 said:


> So that guy was right about 2022 being the year Palestine is liberated.


I don't know about that but it mirrors what Russian twitter users have posted that Russia is deliberately "half cocked" and that is what is worrying, as we were trained when the shit is about to hit the fan you will know: Because of the absence of normal and presence of the abnormal. Nothing about this conflict so far has been within the "norms".

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497938408462823436


----------



## jamahir

terry5 said:


> rebel 'who blew up 140 tanks in Syria' offers to fight for Ukraine​Syrian rebel Suheil al-Hammoud, known as 'Abu Al Taw' who reportedly destroyed over 140 tanks in the Syrian Civil War has revealed he wants to fight in Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Syrian rebel Suheil al-Hammoud wants to help Ukraine (
> Image: @suheilhammoud/Twitter)
> 
> NEWS
> POLITICS
> FOOTBALL
> CELEBS
> 
> 
> 
> By
> John BettAudience Writer
> John James
> 15:26, 27 Feb 2022
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> |
> COMMENTS
> A freedom fighter from Syria who 'took out over 140' tanks has offered to help Ukraine fight off the Russian invasion.
> Suheil al-Hammoud gained notoriety during the Syrian Civil War when he used American anti-tank missiles to wipe out Assad's tanks.
> 
> The Free Syrian Army rebel has now tweeted his support for the Ukrainian resistors and asked how he could get involved, as the Daily Star reports.
> On Saturday, February 26, he said: "How can I go to Ukraine and fight alongside the Ukrainian army. Is there a way? I'm ready."
> The militant would undoubtedly help matters on the ground because as combat CVs go, his is particularly impressive.
> Luckily for Suheil al-Hamoud, it's actually quite easy to join up to fight.
> 
> 
> War-torn Ukraine is establishing an "international" legion for volunteers from across the world – including Brits – who wish to take on "full Tonto" Vladimir Putin themselves.
> 
> In a statement delivered from Kyiv after three days of fighting, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy called on people across the world to volunteer to defend Ukrainian sovereignty against Russian invaders.



Freedom fighter ?  An Al Qaeda or "Muslim" Brotherhood criminal calls himself a freedom fighter ? And it no surprise that Western mainstream media will celebrate AQ and MB criminals.



Messerschmitt said:


> If you want to believe that Belarusians protesting against the Russian invasion of their neighbour Ukraine while their government is complicit with Russia is in fact a CIA operation, then you can do that.



Yes I will, thank you.

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## Falcon29

RescueRanger said:


> I don't know about that but it mirrors what Russian twitter users have posted that Russia is deliberately "half cocked" and that is what is worrying, as we were trained when the shit is about to hit the fan you will know: Because of the absence of normal and presence of the abnormal. Nothing about this conflict so far has been within the "norms".


Can you post link again? It won't work. I'd like to read it.


----------



## Meengla

jhungary said:


> This does not brew right with the Chinese perspective though.
> 
> Chinese perspective is that they do not engage in other nation affair, unless China stance is for Ukraine not to be a sovereignty, this is going to be tough on China isolationist view. The Problem is, Ukraine is (or was or whatever) Chinese main Strategic partner with their help on Chinese Carrier and Fighter plane design. Would they betray Ukraine like this for a no-gain posture with Russia?
> 
> China is smart not to fully support Russia on this.



Actually it brews to the best craft beer in the world for China! It is true that China wouldn't officially support the Russian _invasion _because that would undermine China's long held public policies. However, if there is any consensus about this war, it is that China is the biggest beneficiary of this conflict. Tying down the West in Europe--away from the Pacific region--at the cost of some dead Russians is not a high price to pay. And Chinese foreign ministry has even more or less condoned Russia's invasion without, of course, officially blessing it. Also, the longheld 'strategic ambiguity' that Russia employed about relations with the West and China is gone now--Russia is, into the foreseeable future, becoming a very close partner for China and you can only thank the stupid warmongers in the West for that! 
China only gains, gains, and gains from this conflict!! China doesn't have to fully support Russia. Support enough to have Russian objectives met. And I don't blame China for such a posture. And indirectly Pakistan too gains despite some members here naively talking about a few Ukrainian weapon system blocked for Pakistan.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497964249863368705


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## hussain0216

beijingwalker said:


> When China and India are not against Russia, it's already half of the humanity.



To be fair the vast majority of humanity couldn't give a toss about Ukraine and their European friends

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## RescueRanger

jamahir said:


> Freedom fighter ?  An Al Qaeda or "Muslim" Brotherhood criminal calls himself a freedom fighter ? And it no surprise that Western mainstream media will celebrate AQ and MB criminals.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I will, thank you.


What a short memory these people have.

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## TheNoob

hussain0216 said:


> To be fair the vast majority of humanity couldn't give a toss about Ukraine and their European friends



majority would be an understatement


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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497960531357016066

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497964015032713223

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## Clutch



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## beast89

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497917403304452097
> russian convoy annihilated in Kyiv


video is edited and cut short the russians take the guys phone in the end, as they are literally around the corner

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## TheNoob

I think we should avoid posting from NEXTA, 
Dude has posted day 1 and day 2 videos and pictures in day 3 and 4 just to keep the narrative flowing.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497960483135148034

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497965228868481033

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497966410965782529


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## The SC

obj 705A said:


> Wait whatever happened to social distancing? Did Covid take a vacation?


People are starting to believe that the Covid-19 thing was to prepare Humanity to stay at home for weeks and months and even work from home..because "someone" somehow might have seen a nuclear war approaching..

Reactions: Like Like:
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## dbc

jhungary said:


> No, you're fine, I totally understood what you are saying.....
> 
> About your question. The N- Word (No, not that N word, I mean the nuclear weapon)
> 
> As you know, Russia has put its Nuclear Weapon in high alert (it was on my phone and people are going crazy over it) What I would see is US, UK and France will similarly put their Nuclear Force in high alert. Which effectively escalating the whole situation.
> 
> However, I also foresee an outside factor. China. First, you need to understand this, without Chinese support Russia war in Ukraine would be 10 times harder with sanction going on. Second, any purposed Nuclear Exchange in Europe or US will undoubtedly affect China. So would China willing to go that far for something they do not start? I doubt it. At this point, I am expecting Chinese to go against Russia nuclear threat because it done nothing on China as this is the few time I say China is probably innocent in all these. Yet any kind of nuclear move would undoubtedly drag China on a thermonuclear war.
> 
> I don't think China would want that, and China have the leash on Putin, because that was his last piggybank (I don't suppose Syria+Belarus+CAS region combine are close to as rich as China) So I think China would be the first to say no, you are going too far. I believe Threatening Nuclear Option will just make China withdraw their support. They already did not vote with Russia on the UNSC resolution (China voted Abstain instead of Veto) That show you they don't really buy into this war.
> 
> Not sure if you think what I said make sense



Welcome back J

China encouraged Putin's misadventure and now that Russian ego has been shattered the Chinese have a pliant sanctioned Russia at its mercy.

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## jhungary

Meengla said:


> Actually it brews to the best craft beer in the world for China! It is true that China wouldn't officially support the Russian _invasion _because that would undermine China's long held public policies. However, if there is any consensus about this war, it is that China is the biggest beneficiary of this conflict. Tying down the West in Europe--away from the Pacific region--at the cost of some dead Russians is not a high price to pay. And Chinese foreign ministry has even more or less condoned Russia's invasion without, of course, officially blessing it. Also, the longheld 'strategic ambiguity' that Russia employed about relations with the West and China is gone now--Russia is, into the foreseeable future, becoming a very close partner for China and you can only thank the stupid warmongers in the West for that!
> China only gains, gains, and gains from this conflict!! China doesn't have to fully support Russia. Support enough to have Russian objectives met. And I don't blame China for such a posture. And indirectly Pakistan too gains despite some members here naively talking about a few Ukrainian weapon system blocked for Pakistan.



I would disagree on this tying down the West in Europe. 

Notice that NATO weren't at all engage in this. Despite what Putin Claim. NATO was never going to accept Ukraine, they rejected their membership plan outright in 2008, they reject to even consider the application in 2015. What NATO is doing here, and now is to have this to become a big enough issue. The eyes of NATO is on Sweden and Finland, the NATO want these two nation to join NATO, not Ukraine. And the situation in Ukraine is a good media to tell Finland and Sweden to drop any last doubt that Russia is going to play nice in the region.

Strategically and Tactically, NATO does not help out Ukraine that much, but NATO member amongst themselves are starting to wake up to the years of liberal-socialist dormitory. We already see a few NATO member dropped their usual stance on non-interference policy, Germany send arms to Ukraine for the first time since 1955. Estonia and Latvia shore up the border. And if Sweden and Finland did join NATO (Which is highly probable) That will bolster the Eastern Flank of NATO because both are regional Military Power. And that in turn will free up US and UK asset on NATO and you want to venture a guess where these freed up asset is going to deploy next? Asia Pacific. There are already AUKUS pact, in which both US and UK is developing Australia into a regional power, which along with Singapore and US/UK asset in South Pacific would basically increase the difficulty to host operation for China. That should be alarming to the Chinese.

What this war does to Russia is to have them completely controlled by China. And also expose the weakness of Russian Warfighting Capability. And what this conflict bring to China is an unnecessary conflict between two traditional allies. And probably bankrolling a war that China have nothing to do with. Now would that mean any Chinese Advantage? That's quite depends on what Russia give them in return (casual guess would be oil and gas) but I see this do more harm to China to get involved than good to them.

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## Inception-06

jhungary said:


> No, you're fine, I totally understood what you are saying.....
> 
> About your question. The N- Word (No, not that N word, I mean the nuclear weapon)
> 
> As you know, Russia has put its Nuclear Weapon in high alert (it was on my phone and people are going crazy over it) What I would see is US, UK and France will similarly put their Nuclear Force in high alert. Which effectively escalating the whole situation.
> 
> However, I also foresee an outside factor. China. First, you need to understand this, without Chinese support Russia war in Ukraine would be 10 times harder with sanction going on. Second, any purposed Nuclear Exchange in Europe or US will undoubtedly affect China. So would China willing to go that far for something they do not start? I doubt it. At this point, I am expecting Chinese to go against Russia nuclear threat because it done nothing on China as this is the few time I say China is probably innocent in all these. Yet any kind of nuclear move would undoubtedly drag China on a thermonuclear war.
> 
> I don't think China would want that, and China have the leash on Putin, because that was his last piggybank (I don't suppose Syria+Belarus+CAS region combine are close to as rich as China) So I think China would be the first to say no, you are going too far. I believe Threatening Nuclear Option will just make China withdraw their support. They already did not vote with Russia on the UNSC resolution (China voted Abstain instead of Veto) That show you they don't really buy into this war.
> 
> Not sure if you think what I said make sense



Yes of course it makes absolutely sense from logically perspective what you have written here. You are absolutely right in the next days we will see a clearer picture what way the Russian military and Regime will go.

But regarding the escalation, from watching and seeing and reading everything on Putin and his Russia, I don’t see anything logically or rationally, neither the performance and art of war of his military on the ground nor his decision for an invasion. In my opinion, this men has a higher potential for escalating the ladders for a limited nuclear exchange, if he looses his face through a revolution or mass protests in Russia or through more and heavily loses in this ongoing war.

Have good day, by the way I served in Bundeswehr, I participated last year in Territorial Force Battalion level exercise. This year it seems out of order because of the current situation.


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## Falcon29

The SC said:


> People are starting to believe that the Covid-19 thing was to prepare Humanity to stay at home for weeks and months and even work from home..because "someone" somehow might have seen a nuclear war approaching..


In that case humanity need to unite to reveal the identities of the cultists and wipe out the order.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497967196705898497

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497964793956868099

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497967499551416321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497967814170144769

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497968194002247681

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497964143718113281


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497917763364564994


----------



## Paul2

jhungary said:


> So what does that mean? First attack with 3 prongs 100 of kilometre apart would mean they have separated their logistic zone and support zone, which mean each prong would have their own staging area, logistic and resupply element, air/ground support element. In other words, the invading force is diverse.
> 
> This could mean good thing and bad things for Ukrainian. Good thing is, Russia force is diluted, instead of facing a giant fist of 50,000-70,000 troops, Ukrainian is facing 3 front with 20,000 troop each, diluted troop concentration is susceptible to Ukrainian harassment, plus, these troop are supposed to secure key city and infrastructure. Which call into doubt whether it is doable for them to work, not to mention the risk of being defeated in detail, which if one arm failed, the whole operation gone kaput (unless there are reinforcement, which I would assume)



This is a very un-Russian strategy.

I ready translated Soviet military doctrine books a bit. Soviet doctrine was all about "one giant, slow armour, artillery, meatball" formation to outnumber, and outgun everything in front of it.

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## zartosht

dBSPL said:


> The only reason Turkey entered NATO was because Stalin had territorial claims on Turkey and wanted to establish Russian military control of the straits.
> 
> The Montreux agreement and the Straits Convention are in effect with the signature of Russia. (Guarantor states Turkey, Bulgaria, France, England, Japan, Romania, Soviet Union, Yugoslavia and Greece) It is the only international water in which the US navy cannot show an effective naval presence, thanks to its contain.
> 
> The main purpose of the Montreux Convention is to reconcile the requirements and benefits of international maritime trade with these rights, while preserving the sovereign rights of the Republic of Turkey, which is a coastal state. In other words, a new transition regime from the Straits was accepted with Montreux, and the responsibility for the implementation and supervision of this new regime was given to Turkey.
> 
> In time of war, if Turkey is not a belligerent, warships shall enjoy full freedom of passage and round-trip (transportation) in the Straits, under the same conditions as those specified in Articles 10 to 18. However, warships of any warring State shall be prohibited from passing through the Straits.
> 
> Warships belonging to warring States, littoral or non-Black Sea, that have left their mooring ports may return to these ports.
> 
> Warships of the Warring States are prohibited from attempting any seizure, exercise of right of control (visit) and any other hostile act in the Straits.
> 
> Article 19 does not constitute an obstacle for ships of the Russian Black Sea navy to return to their bases.
> 
> Don't make yourself ridiculous by talking about things you really don't know.



I am very familiar with the clauses of montreux.

I never said Turkey wasnt allowed to technically close it in certain circumstances. 

however the montreux declaration itself has no precedent in international law. It was basically a "might makes right" smash and grab by NATO .

IT is standard and long established, and written into UN charters that such bodies of waters are international waterways..

nothing i said was untrue. Turkey is on extremely shaky legal ground when it comes to it. The only reason they have been able to enforce this illegal claim is NATO bullying. There is absolutely nothing in terms of international law, norms or precedent like the montreux. 

The US absolutely goes out of its way to send its navy all over the world close to the territorial waters of enemy countries in the name of "protecting free international trade" 

There is no more laws apparently. Its become the law of the jungle. I will repeat that when Iran openly builds her nukes, we should demand for our safety a similar status to monteux/straight of hormuz. 

You can continue to serve as NATO's nuke absorbers, and battleground to save the precious blue eyed blonde "civlized" euros the western media is killing themselves over.

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> The second thing I noticed is that if the Russian sole goal is to relieve Ukrainian government, then they would have done what we had done during Iraq war, we concentrate our effort to go into Baghdad and secure the government and then fan out and secure the individual objective (like TV station, airport, port, village and so on) But Russian did not do that, suggesting their motive is territorial gain. Ie capture and occupied as many land as you can.



My believe is that they are pressuring Kivy to do more landgrab in the south. South has more sea access, and valuable arable land.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497965254030069762

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## jhungary

Inception-06 said:


> Yes of course it makes absolutely sense from logically perspective what you have written here. You are absolutely right in the next days we will see a clearer picture what way the Russian military and Regime will go.
> 
> But regarding the escalation, from watching and seeing and reading everything on Putin and his Russia, I don’t see anything logically or rationally, neither the performance and art of war of his military on the ground nor his decision for an invasion. In my opinion, this men has a higher potential for escalating the ladders for a limited nuclear exchange, if he looses his face through a revolution or mass protests in Russia or through more and heavily loses in this ongoing war.
> 
> Have good day, by the way I served in Bundeswehr, I participated last year in Territorial Force Battalion level exercise. This year it seems out of order because of the current situation.



Well, anything goes, there are nothing to say like Putin lost it completely and decided to end the world "type" of scenario will not happened. The thing is, Putin is every name you call him but stupid. He knows by ending the world, whatever he was doing to get to that point at that instant would become meaningless. 

If he is about to lose (Which again, as my assessment said, I highly doubt that) he would find a way to pull troop out and spin it on something like his victory, he don't need to convince the world it is, he don't care, you can see how he blatantly lies about the invasion to see he don't care about his world image, he just need to convince Russian that was his victory.

And nice for the Bundeswehr, I served with them in Afghanistan, they are a good bunch of people, I hope Germany change the stance after this war and see that the security future is in Germany hand not anyone else. Hope you have a nice day.

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## Indian Libertarian

What is Russia’s endgame now? They’ve already had so many losses both military and economic…


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## jhungary

dbc said:


> Welcome back J
> 
> China encouraged Putin's misadventure and now that Russian ego has been shattered the Chinese have a pliant sanctioned Russia at its mercy.



Thanks

I think it's more like a lump of unwanted cancer landed on Chinese doorstep. 

Would Chinese even want to touch that pile of.....? I don't know. But as far as I see, this is going to become a liability of China.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497964697357729796

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> My believe is that they are pressuring Kivy to do more landgrab in the south. South has more sea access, and valuable arable land.


But then their southern invasion has stalled. 

In military term. We will say Russian invasion has run out of momentum.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497966628385923077


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## jhungary

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497964697357729796


That's actually an Ukrainian victory if this is the actual term of peace deal...

EDIT: Well, depends on what you mean by "Eastern Ukraine"?

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## Wergeland

jamal18 said:


> Scott Ritter is a former UN arms inspector in Iraq. An American, but he doesn't tow the American line. Very good interview for all those who still believe ' Mad man Putin attacked Ukraine' narrative.



There was many Americans who were against the Iraq war. They were labeled traitors and anti-democratic.

But who was right in the end? Iraq ended up being a distaster for America and beginning of US-decline.

Why is it so hard for warmongering fascisct to understand that war should always be the last option. If politicians are not clever enough to find non-violent political solutions to problems then we have to elect real politicians who can master the true Art Of War.

Ukraine War is a tragedy. Russia may or may not succed with reuniting Ukraine with Russia. Regardless this war will have huge ripple effects on the Russian conciousness.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497970621501919243

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497970966294630401

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497971316934287363

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497971262966091782


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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> This is a very un-Russian strategy.
> 
> I ready translated Soviet military doctrine books a bit. Soviet doctrine was all about "one giant, slow armour, artillery, meatball" formation to outnumber, and outgun everything in front of it.


Yes, as I said some post (I forgot where and when) ago, Russian doctrine dictate a giant massive Amour assault which would be hard for Russian to keep, logistic wise, if they are split up in 3.

What Russia doing now is more or less the US way to conquer a country, use multiple front, shock and awe, like we did with Iraq in the first Iraq war.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497972344576434178

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497968615412359170

Reactions: Like Like:
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## maverick1977

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497952409913548808


what kinda name is that ?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497972485253435398

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Meengla

jhungary said:


> I would disagree on this tying down the West in Europe.
> 
> Notice that NATO weren't at all engage in this. Despite what Putin Claim. NATO was never going to accept Ukraine, they rejected their membership plan outright in 2008, they reject to even consider the application in 2015. What NATO is doing here, and now is to have this to become a big enough issue. The eyes of NATO is on Sweden and Finland, the NATO want these two nation to join NATO, not Ukraine. And the situation in Ukraine is a good media to tell Finland and Sweden to drop any last doubt that Russia is going to play nice in the region.
> 
> Strategically and Tactically, NATO does not help out Ukraine that much, but NATO member amongst themselves are starting to wake up to the years of liberal-socialist dormitory. We already see a few NATO member dropped their usual stance on non-interference policy, Germany send arms to Ukraine for the first time since 1955. Estonia and Latvia shore up the border. And if Sweden and Finland did join NATO (Which is highly probable) That will bolster the Eastern Flank of NATO because both are regional Military Power. And that in turn will free up US and UK asset on NATO and you want to venture a guess where these freed up asset is going to deploy next? Asia Pacific. There are already AUKUS pact, in which both US and UK is developing Australia into a regional power, which along with Singapore and US/UK asset in South Pacific would basically increase the difficulty to host operation for China. That should be alarming to the Chinese.
> 
> What this war does to Russia is to have them completely controlled by China. And also expose the weakness of Russian Warfighting Capability. And what this conflict bring to China is an unnecessary conflict between two traditional allies. And probably bankrolling a war that China have nothing to do with. Now would that mean any Chinese Advantage? That's quite depends on what Russia give them in return (casual guess would be oil and gas) but I see this do more harm to China to get involved than good to them.



Well. We agree to disagree about the China angle. And yet your post overall suggests my understanding of the strategic environment. My understanding is that Russia's decades old 'strategic ambiguity' is gone now and it is firmly in the Chinese camp. My understanding is that anything happening in Europe or the Middle East or anywhere except the Pacific region which ties the Western resources is to China's advantage. China wouldn't necessarily want this conflict but now that it has started China knows where its interest lie and Chinese members here would confirm that. There are really such things as the Zero Sum Gains!

You have surprisingly played up Ukraine as an ally of China. Ukraine is peanuts for China compared with Russia! Heck, Ukraine is peanuts for even Pakistan compared to the advantages gained by China and Russia. Maybe Ukraine is just a bag of peanuts 

And in another post, you brought up nukes as a reason China would stop Russia. What an odd thing to say??!!! Russia is not going to use nukes. It can conventionally flatten and totally destroy Ukraine IF and WHEN Putin is really cornered. The nukes are for the West to be aware of the ultimate costs and to back off. A blackmail to let the West be mindful of where things could end up but as of now a very far fetched idea.

Reactions: Like Like:
4 | Love Love:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497972007748710412


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497974339081228289

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497973915494330376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497974258735194115


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## jhungary

Meengla said:


> Well. We agree to disagree about the China angle. And yet your post overall suggests my understanding of the strategic environment. My understanding is that Russia's decades old 'strategic ambiguity' is gone now and it is firmly in the Chinese camp. My understanding is that anything happening in Europe or the Middle East or anywhere except the Pacific region which ties the Western resources is to China's advantage. China wouldn't necessarily want this conflict but now that it has started China knows where its interest lie and Chinese members here would confirm that. There are really such things as the Zero Sum Gains!
> 
> You have surprisingly played up Ukraine as an ally of China. Ukraine is peanuts for China compared with Russia! Heck, Ukraine is peanuts for even Pakistan compared to the advantages gained by China and Russia. Maybe Ukraine is just a bag of peanuts
> 
> And in another post, you brought up nukes as a reason China would stop Russia. What an odd thing to say??!!! Russia is not going to use nukes. It can conventionally flatten and totally destroy Ukraine IF and WHEN Putin is really cornered. The nukes are for the West to be aware of the ultimate costs and to back off. A blackmail to let the West be mindful of where things could end up but as of now a very far fetched idea.


I respect your point, so I am just going to say this.

There are complicated issue regarding this, and most Chinese member here, as far as I remember and dealing with, is incapable to understand the complicated issue ahead. There are probably 2 member I know from China in this forum that knows exactly what is going on. 

Otherwise we can agree to disagree with the idea. I believe in what I said, and I am a military man, has been for a long time, and not a politician, with that in mind, I may not be the most reliable Political pundit. And I am afraid this is going to the tuff that I don't want to talk about as I said on my second post in this matter.

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## dBSPL

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497972007748710412


In return for so many troop losses, until now at least Crimea and Donbass had to be physically united.



dBSPL said:


> I could swear that Putin slapping some generals at the headquarter right now, but I can't prove it.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497973943982034945

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497945416196923392

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497975167355691009

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497972564634882048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497975474424893442


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497974637333995523


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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497977050703048711

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497976718287679488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497976504210259971

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## Malik Alpha

jamahir said:


> Freedom fighter ?  An Al Qaeda or "Muslim" Brotherhood criminal calls himself a freedom fighter ? And it no surprise that Western mainstream media will celebrate AQ and MB criminals.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I will, thank you.


He is not Al Qaeda or Muslim Brotherhood. He is from FSA a Syrian whose country got destroyed by Russians. You won't understand it.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497975643409158148

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## Indian Libertarian

Are you guys still considering that this will be a quick Russian victory? I think Russia will prevail with time but time is what they’re lacking.


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## dBSPL

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497945416196923392
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497975167355691009
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497972564634882048
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497975474424893442


It's decision time for Russia. If Putin turns his back on Europe, will enter an irreversible road. He will confirm China as the new leader(on every aspect) of the east, and Russia's dependence on China will now become a vital necessity.

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## Wergeland

Meengla said:


> Well. We agree to disagree about the China angle. And yet your post overall suggests my understanding of the strategic environment. My understanding is that Russia's decades old 'strategic ambiguity' is gone now and it is firmly in the Chinese camp. My understanding is that anything happening in Europe or the Middle East or anywhere except the Pacific region which ties the Western resources is to China's advantage. China wouldn't necessarily want this conflict but now that it has started China knows where its interest lie and Chinese members here would confirm that. There are really such things as the Zero Sum Gains!
> 
> You have surprisingly played up Ukraine as an ally of China. Ukraine is peanuts for China compared with Russia! Heck, Ukraine is peanuts for even Pakistan compared to the advantages gained by China and Russia. Maybe Ukraine is just a bag of peanuts
> 
> And in another post, you brought up nukes as a reason China would stop Russia. What an odd thing to say??!!! Russia is not going to use nukes. It can conventionally flatten and totally destroy Ukraine IF and WHEN Putin is really cornered. The nukes are for the West to be aware of the ultimate costs and to back off. A blackmail to let the West be mindful of where things could end up but as of now a very far fetched idea.



What you present here is the corundum of this whole spectacle. A war on the eastern front of NATO is the least thing Europe needs right now. Heck its even more a headache for America. Biden has been a mere reactive figurehead. If there is a long-term mastermind strategy behind deeper US-involvement in Europe, it would be be a interesting reading (sincerely).

Russia may loose this war but thats nothing because Russia will lick its wounds and be even more determined to have its revenge. Not that the West should be or is afraid of that, but no doubt it will distract and divert resources from more important theaters.

I hear suggestions here that increased European defence budget will be enough to evaporate Russian millitary posture. Which may or may not be reality, as we have to wait 10 years to see the results. But this still dosent adress the real problem, because America still would be looked up to for overall leadership of NATO. US may delegate some responsibilities to major powers like Germany France and UK, but is that really a ideal situation, from purely political standpoint?
Is it realistic? What is NATO going to look like if America is forced to reorient its attention and resources to the Indo-Pacific theater?

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## jhungary

Indian Libertarian said:


> Are you guys still considering that this will be a quick Russian victory? I think Russia will prevail with time but time is what they’re lacking.


If they capture Kyiv in day 2 like they were set out to be, then it was a quick Russian Victory. It's day 5 already, and we are still seeing Ukrainian jet in the sky.....

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## RescueRanger

Falcon29 said:


> Can you post link again? It won't work. I'd like to read it.


Unable to link Telegram for some reason. Here is the text

Вот уже четвёртый день продолжается наша специальная операция на Украине. Но мне непонятно, почему мы продолжаем нянчиться с бандеровцами? Ведь с первого дня очевидно, что националисты другого языка, кроме силы, не настроены понимать.

Харьков с Киевом от бандеровцев не очистить на одних "Тиграх" "Уралах" и УАЗиках. Они там вооружены до зубов новым оружием, амуницией, тяжелой техникой последнего поколения, а мы с ними все еще возимся в надежде на благоразумие украинских властей и руководства вооруженных сил.

Если "майданутые" сами не жалеют и не берегут собственный народ, то почему мы должны подставлять своих парней?! Настало время принимать конкретное решение и начать крупномасштабную операцию по всем направлениям и территории Украины. Я сам лично не раз разрабатывал тактику и стратегию против террористов, участвовал в боях. В моем понимании выбранная тактика на Украине слишком медлительная. Она длится долго и, на мой взгляд, не эффективна.

Надо уже освобождать города и населённые пункты от бандеровцев, "Азова" и других нацистов. Полная координация действий военных, грамотная расстановка сил и решительный штурм. Все! Больше ничего не нужно.

Они восемь лет убивали свой народ, чтобы удержать власть. Россия встала на защиту угнетенных людей и в итоге против нас приняты всевозможные санкции. Европа, Запад сделали все мыслимое и немыслимое, чтобы навредить России. Так зачем нам сейчас останавливаться? Надо закончить начатое и без оглядки идти только вперед. Будь что будет. На войне и убивают, и разрушают. Без этого никак, к сожалению. Но если украинский народ и вооруженные силы не хотят с нами вести диалог, отмахиваются от переговоров и не намерены принимать меры в отношении нацистов и шайтанов, то мы обязаны закончить начатое и сделать это оперативно.

Нам не нужны потери. Каждая жизнь нашего человека для нас важнее всего. И раз они дважды отказались от переговоров, то нам остаётся только менять тактику. Это будет убедительнее для них.

Я прошу руководство страны, Верховного Главнокомандующего Вооруженными силами России Владимира Путина дать всем спецподразделениям соответствующий приказ, чтобы они смогли закончить с нацистами и, конечно, с террористами, которые убивали в Чеченской Республике наших женщин, стариков, детей.

************************************** TRANSLATION ****************************************************
*******************************************************************************************************
‎Our special operation in Ukraine has been going on for the fourth day. But I don't understand why we continue to babysit the Banderaites? After all, from the first day it is obvious that nationalists of a language other than strength are not in the mood to understand.‎

‎Kharkiv and Kiev cannot be cleared of Banderites on the "Tigers" "Urals" and UAZiks alone. They are armed to the teeth with new weapons, ammunition, heavy equipment of the latest generation, and we are still messing with them in the hope of the prudence of the Ukrainian authorities and the leadership of the armed forces.‎

‎If the "Maidanuts" themselves do not regret and do not take care of their own people, then why should we frame our guys?! It is time to make a concrete decision and launch a large-scale operation in all directions and territory of Ukraine. I personally have repeatedly developed tactics and strategies against terrorists, participated in battles. In my understanding, the chosen tactics in Ukraine are too slow. It lasts a long time and, in my opinion, is not effective.‎

‎It is necessary to liberate cities and towns from the Banderaites, Azov and other Nazis. Full coordination of military actions, competent alignment of forces and a decisive assault. All! You don't need anything else.‎

‎They killed their people for eight years to hold on to power. Russia stood up for the oppressed people and as a result, all sorts of sanctions were taken against us. Europe and the West have done everything imaginable and unthinkable to harm Russia. So why should we stop now? It is necessary to finish what we started and go only forward without looking back. Whatever happens. In war, they both kill and destroy. Unfortunately, there is no way without it. But if the Ukrainian people and armed forces do not want to conduct a dialogue with us, dismiss negotiations and do not intend to take measures against the Nazis and Satanists, then we must finish what we started and do it promptly.‎

‎We don't need losses. Every life of our person is most important to us. And since they twice refused to negotiate, then we can only change tactics. It will be more convincing for them.‎

‎I ask the country's leadership, Supreme Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Armed Forces Vladimir Putin, to give all special forces an appropriate order so that they can finish with the Nazis and, of course, with the terrorists who killed our women, old people and children in the Chechen Republic.‎


Original Source: Source: https://****/RKadyrov_95/1265

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## Indian Libertarian

Wergeland said:


> What you present here is the corundum of this whole spectacle. A war on the eastern front of NATO is the least thing Europe needs right now. Heck its even more a headache for America. Biden has been a mere reactive figurehead. If there is a long-term mastermind strategy behind deeper US-involvement in Europe, it would be be a interesting reading (sincerely).
> 
> Russia may loose this war but thats nothing because Russia will lick its wounds and be even more determined to have its revenge. Not that the West should be or is afraid of that, but no doubt it will distract and divert resources from more important theaters.
> 
> I hear suggestions here that increased European defence budget will be enough to evaporate Russian millitary posture. Which may or may not be reality, as we have to wait 10 years to see the results. But this still dosent adress the real problem, because America still would be looked up to for overall leadership of NATO. US may delegate some responsibilities to major powers like Germany France and UK, but is that really a ideal situation, from purely political standpoint?
> Is it realistic? What is NATO going to look like if America is forced to reorient its attention and resources to the Indo-Pacific theater?


Seems like America would ask for something in return. Probably European assistance in Asia in exchange for more resources put into Europe.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497978617434943490


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## terry5

jamahir said:


> Freedom fighter ?  An Al Qaeda or "Muslim" Brotherhood criminal calls himself a freedom fighter ? And it no surprise that Western mainstream media will celebrate AQ and MB criminals.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I will, thank you.



Typical Brainwashed Indian racist post 








Syria rebels arrest renowned fighter over 'mocking Instagram posts'


The extremist Hayaat Tahrir al-Sham Syrian rebel alliance arrested on Monday well-known opposition fighter 'Abu TOW' after he posted images online making fun of them.




english.alaraby.co.uk


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497971631750139907

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497980184426860551

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497978460664479747


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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> This does not brew right with the Chinese perspective though.
> 
> Chinese perspective is that they do not engage in other nation affair, unless China stance is for Ukraine not to be a sovereignty, this is going to be tough on China isolationist view. The Problem is, Ukraine is (or was or whatever) Chinese main Strategic partner with their help on Chinese Carrier and Fighter plane design. Would they betray Ukraine like this for a no-gain posture with Russia?
> 
> China is smart not to fully support Russia on this.



I don't know what Xi himself was thinking, but Beijing international affairs people would only advise the central commitee to support Russians if they *will* win, and they don't.

I see this large divergence in between what Xi himself says, and what central committee's says for the first time in many years.

We gain literally nothing from this, unless Putin wins, and *if* he makes himself useful. On other side, if he loses, he will have to crawl into Zhongnanhai for cash again. And that will be very good. We can demand our outer northeast back.

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## dBSPL

Pray for Mriya

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497967836337041409
///

Ukraine reports damage to two nuclear facilities - IAEA

F***

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## maverick1977

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497975643409158148



The story is unfolding, the war is not going in favor of Russia. Putting Nuke force on alert is not good, 
i am afraid battlefield tactical nukes might come into play here

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497948136760872961


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## dBSPL

EU Commission President von der Leyen announced that they will impose new economic sanctions on Belarus.

EU high representative Borrell: Russian central bank reserve will be blocked.


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## Indian Libertarian

maverick1977 said:


> The story is unfolding, the war is not going in favor of Russia. Putting Nuke force on alert is not good,
> i am afraid battlefield tactical nukes might come into play here


Tactical nukes will only isolate Russia more and elicit a NATO response if radiation travels to their countries…


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497982174011658242

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## maverick1977

Indian Libertarian said:


> Tactical nukes will only isolate Russia more and elicit a NATO response if radiation travels to their countries…



whatelse do expect from EU with sanctions already in place, nothing else left except a direct attack by NAtO


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## dBSPL

BP has decided to sell its 20% stake in Russian oil and gas giant Rosneft.

BP CEO resigns from Rosneft Board of Directors.


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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> I don't know what Xi himself was thinking, but Beining international affairs people would only support Russians if they *will* win, and they don't.
> 
> I see this large divergence in between what Xi himself says, and what central committee's says for the first time in many years.
> 
> We gain literally nothing from this, unless Putin wins, and *if* he makes himself useful. On other side, if he loses, he will have to crawl into Zhongnanhai for cash again. And that will be very good. We can demand our outer northeast back.


This is probably the only time Russia is fully subjugated by the Chinese.

I don't know, if I am XI, I wouldn't touch it, Russia is becoming another North Korea. I don't see how Putin behave have any different than Kim Jong now.

And trust me when I say this, as a former cop who investigate homicide. A lot of those case is when lover turn on each other. If China get too cosy with Russia and Russia turn on China because they did not do what they want the Chinese to do, that's usually ended up in Homicide. If you know what I mean....

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## dBSPL

*The Syrian National Coalition called on the international community to provide advanced weapons to the Syrian National Army to confront, limit and pressure Russia in Syria: They request for the same weapons as currently provided to Ukraine.*



https://t.co/cDxctIetW3

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497984230911008769

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497983876723003400


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497983291076526090


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## waz

The Russian effort has slowed, which I fear means terrible things i.e. to speed things up they may start to level areas of resistance.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497982746123247623

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497984917548027906

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## pakpride00090

waz said:


> The Russian effort has slowed, which I fear means terrible thing i.e. to speed things up they may start to level areas of resistance.



Russia will do whats necessary. 

Till now , Russians have been very careful to not cause civilian casualties. Ukrainians didn't give in infact they are piggy backing on NATO... I hope Russians pulverize them ...

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## CatSultan

obj 705A said:


> IMO the chances of a major war in Ukraine is slim to none, Russia is fine with the status quo, the Ukraine and the US are not idiots..they will not give Russia an excuse to take more lands from Ukraine.
> The cause for the recent escalation is probably just because sleepy Joe wants to show that he is a tough guy and not some senile walking corpse, "America is back". So he told the puppets in Kiev to escalate a little before going back to the status quo.
> After few days or few weeks things will calm down.
> The reason why the Russians are amassing forces at the border is just to dissuade the Ukrainians from going too far.


This aged badly

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## Meengla

Wergeland said:


> What you present here is the corundum of this whole spectacle. A war on the eastern front of NATO is the least thing Europe needs right now. Heck its even more a headache for America. Biden has been a mere reactive figurehead. If there is a long-term mastermind strategy behind deeper US-involvement in Europe, it would be be a interesting reading (sincerely).
> 
> Russia may loose this war but thats nothing because Russia will lick its wounds and be even more determined to have its revenge. Not that the West should be or is afraid of that, but no doubt it will distract and divert resources from more important theaters.
> 
> I hear suggestions here that increased European defence budget will be enough to evaporate Russian millitary posture. Which may or may not be reality, as we have to wait 10 years to see the results. But this still dosent adress the real problem, because America still would be looked up to for overall leadership of NATO. US may delegate some responsibilities to major powers like Germany France and UK, but is that really a ideal situation, from purely political standpoint?
> Is it realistic? What is NATO going to look like if America is forced to reorient its attention and resources to the Indo-Pacific theater?



Russia can't afford to lose this conflict. Putin's ominous words of Russia fighting for its survival tells you how far he's going to go. America has been involved in countless wars for decades and yet Americans are confident and don't have to use such ominous words!! Putin's nuclear blackmail indicates his determination and willing to go to the extreme if he is not given his way.
I honestly don't see a need for NATO. It is a vestige from the Cold War and its main utility seems to be to bomb hapless 3rd world countries. Russia has always desired to be part of Europe and given time would have become one, especially after Putin, except some powers--basically the Neocons of America--can't wait to grab the Russian resources.
The Pacific Theater is the theater which would worry China. And as I keep repeating, this is another American war which is giving advantages to China. Already the damn Israeli Lobby dragged America into a useless Iraq War in 2003 which severely depleted the American power for no gains except profiteering for some companies in America and further securing Israel. China couldn't be happier because of that war!

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## dbc

jhungary said:


> Thanks
> 
> I think it's more like a lump of unwanted cancer landed on Chinese doorstep.
> 
> Would Chinese even want to touch that pile of.....? I don't know. But as far as I see, this is going to become a liability of China.


Thanks to sanctions Russian oligarchs will be forced to transact its mineral wealth via China on terms favourable to the Chinese. That in itself is a big win for the Chinese.
A prospect Russian oligarchs will find particularly repugnant since it will severely limit their returns.

Frankly, I suspect Putin's days are numbered. A new Russian leader will likely emerge restoring the détente with the west.

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## beast89

pakpride00090 said:


> Please fire the nukes.. I wanna see white people go boom boom


that's f***ed, bloodthirsty and racist

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## Wergeland

pakpride00090 said:


> Please fire the nukes.. I wanna see white people go boom boom




I know youre joking but things are escalating quickly now, if tactical nukes starts flying then Nuclear Armageddon is God forbid, inching closer to a reality. Not a single corner on earth will remain untouched.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497984141987483648


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## Clutch

waz said:


> The Russian effort has slowed, which I fear means terrible thing i.e. to speed things up they may start to level areas of resistance.



This is what I fear as well. The thing with wars are that they are hugely unpredictable. When things don't go as planned escalation is the only resort. I see this potentially escalating to Europe.

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## waz

pakpride00090 said:


> Russia will do whats necessary.



True.



dbc said:


> Thanks to sanctions Russian oligarchs will be forced to transact its mineral wealth via China on terms favourable to the Chinese. That in itself is a big win for the Chinese.
> A prospect Russian oligarchs will find particularly repugnant since it will severely limit their returns.
> 
> Frankly, I suspect Putin's days are numbered. A new Russian leader will likely emerge restoring the détente with the west.



Dude you're back, so are several other long time members. Hope you are well.


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## jhungary

dbc said:


> Thanks to sanctions Russian oligarchs will be forced to transact its mineral wealth via China on terms favourable to the Chinese. That in itself is a big win for the Chinese.
> A prospect Russian oligarchs will find particularly repugnant since it will severely limit their returns.
> 
> Frankly, I suspect Putin's days are numbered. A new Russian leader will likely emerge restoring the détente with the west.


But then China won't just inherit the Oligarch, but also the rubble pile that used to be Russia Economy....And it will take a lot of effort to restore it, seeing this is the endgame for Putin to get out of the economy woe he made during the last 10 years.

And yeah, seems like Putin is on the way out, well, I would say, he had his fun and his wealth being able to skim off just about everything in Russia. I would be pissed if I am Russian tho...because he just sold off my future.....and welcome 996.....

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497986324757987338Atgm shipments to Ukraine from almost every country in Europe.


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## R Wing

In my opinion, there is only one strategy that works in such a situation, and it is not go-slow/medium-in-the-hopes-of-a-rival-government-capitulating-when-it-has-global/Western-support in $$$/arms/diplomacy. 

The only thing that could have worked was a 2-day blitz all the way to Kiev with the latest weaponry and overwhelming shock & awe deployed. Giving time for them to get re-armed with sophisticated anti-tank/air weaponry and economic aid while you get pummeled by sanctions and cyber warfare isn't a great strategic move. 

Even now, I think the dial should be turned straight to 10, and all the best Russian armaments and units (under the nuclear threshold) should come into play in spectacular fashion for a 1-2 day cutting off and taming of the capital.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497985870233747457

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497987288118267904

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497987577856540675

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## pakpride00090

beast89 said:


> that's f***ed, bloodthirsty and racist





Wergeland said:


> I know youre joking but things are escalating quickly now, if tactical nukes starts flying then Nuclear Armageddon is God forbid, inching closer to a reality. Not a single corner on earth will remain untouched.



I don't care... Less white people the better.. Besides , these white people must face the comeuppance for all the crimes they committed in Middle east and especially to muslim people.

Hope Putin escalates this.

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## R Wing

pakpride00090 said:


> Russia will do whats necessary.
> 
> Till now , Russians have been very careful to not cause civilian casualties. Ukrainians didn't give in infact they are piggy backing on NATO... I hope Russians pulverize them ...



This has backfired. Ukraine is now galvanized, re-armed, flush with support. 

I don't mean to say that they can hold off Russia indefinitely, but time helps the defender. And now, taking the capital will be much more costly for Russia. Of course they can still do it --- but they could have done it much better

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## thetutle

pakpride00090 said:


> Please fire the nukes.. I wanna see white people go boom boom



What a terrible thing to say. 

The way Putin is behaving, this could be the end of him. It could also be the end of Russia. It wont survive as a country politically and economically isolated. 

Putin has turned his country into North Korea or the Soviet Union, but without the ideology to follow. People will become communist al over the world, but how many will support a greater Russian empire? not a single country in the world. 

EU is publicly funding the war against Russia, this is without precedent. Even in the Cold War, the arming of the Mujahideen was done secretly. Now they are telling the world what missiles Ukraine will kill Russians with. 

Russia is not going to come out of this.

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## INS_Vikrant

If it comes to Guerrilla style warfare then am afraid Russia would loose. We have seen in past how mighty global powers loose to local guerilla resistance in Vietnam and Afghanistan twice.

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## pakpride00090

R Wing said:


> In my opinion, there is only one strategy that works in such a situation, and it is not go-slow/medium-in-the-hopes-of-a-rival-government-capitulating-when-it-has-global/Western-support in $$$/arms/diplomacy.
> 
> The only thing that could have worked was a 2-day blitz all the way to Kiev with the latest weaponry and overwhelming shock & awe deployed. Giving time for them to get re-armed with sophisticated anti-tank/air weaponry and economic aid while you get pummeled by sanctions and cyber warfare isn't a great strategic move.
> 
> Even now, I think the dial should be turned straight to 10, and all the best Russian armaments and units (under the nuclear threshold) should come into play in spectacular fashion for a 1-2 day cutting off and taming of the capital.



This is the thing. Russians are wasting precious time.

Arms and other support is reaching ukrainins which will make it very difficult to win. Russians should have gone hard from the get go.

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## That Guy

I knew it would go badly for the Russians, but I didn't know it would be this bad.

I said they'd get beat up, but would win within a few days, and have a new puppet government ready. I have to take that assessment back...

The fact that the Russians have been so utterly incompetent in this war, and have achieved practically nothing, while now being forced to talk when they previously said they'd never do so, is utter humiliation for the Russians.

Its over for Russia's great power status, even if they win this war.

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## waz

I don't understand the Russian use of heavy armour along well kept roads. They're just funnelling their forces to predetermined kill points (so many burnt out vehicles already). Mass infantry moving through the forests to take the Ukrainian anti-tank teams is what they should be aiming for. I think they're too impatient in all this, or they're running short of money for the war.

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## dBSPL

R Wing said:


> In my opinion, there is only one strategy that works in such a situation, and it is not go-slow/medium-in-the-hopes-of-a-rival-government-capitulating-when-it-has-global/Western-support in $$$/arms/diplomacy.
> 
> The only thing that could have worked was a 2-day blitz all the way to Kiev with the latest weaponry and overwhelming shock & awe deployed. Giving time for them to get re-armed with sophisticated anti-tank/air weaponry and economic aid while you get pummeled by sanctions and cyber warfare isn't a great strategic move.
> 
> Even now, I think the dial should be turned straight to 10, and all the best Russian armaments and units (under the nuclear threshold) should come into play in spectacular fashion for a 1-2 day cutting off and taming of the capital.


In order to break the resistance in Kiev in a few days, 80% of the city must be destroyed (or massive military casualties). This means a complete dead end for Russia. What puppet government can they install after killing tens of thousands of Ukrainian civilians?

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## WinterFangs

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497964542227140613


Ali_Baba said:


> View attachment 819335


I doubt the 4300 troops, Ukraine have said they’ve lost 50 for 2000 the other day.


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## Indian Libertarian

thetutle said:


> What a terrible thing to say.
> 
> The way Putin is behaving, this could be the end of him. It could also be the end of Russia. It wont survive as a country politically and economically isolated.
> 
> Putin has turned his country into North Korea or the Soviet Union, but without the ideology to follow. People will become communist al over the world, but how many will support a greater Russian empire? not a single country in the world.
> 
> EU is publicly funding the war against Russia, this is without precedent. Even in the Cold War, the arming of the Mujahideen was done secretly. Now they are telling the world what missiles Ukraine will kill Russians with.
> 
> Russia is not going to come out of this.


I don’t think USSR was ever this isolated.


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## pakpride00090

Ali_Baba said:


> View attachment 819335



Even Pakistan didn't lose that many people in 1965 war that russia lost in just 4 days.



thetutle said:


> What a terrible thing to say.
> 
> The way Putin is behaving, this could be the end of him. It could also be the end of Russia. It wont survive as a country politically and economically isolated.
> 
> Putin has turned his country into North Korea or the Soviet Union, but without the ideology to follow. People will become communist al over the world, but how many will support a greater Russian empire? not a single country in the world.
> 
> EU is publicly funding the war against Russia, this is without precedent. Even in the Cold War, the arming of the Mujahideen was done secretly. Now they are telling the world what missiles Ukraine will kill Russians with.
> 
> Russia is not going to come out of this.



That is good to read.

More desperation for Putin , the more likely he is going to escalate to nuke option .... Kaboom


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## waz

Ali_Baba said:


> View attachment 819335



I seriously doubt this is even 30% accurate.....27 planes?

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## INS_Vikrant

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497972564634882048


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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497989640787496960...


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## pakpride00090

INS_Vikramaditya said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497972564634882048



Yikes..... This will definitely bring Nukes in picture. Russia will not be able to handle a collective EU.


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## Passionaire

May Russia will fires all its nukes towards U.S.

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## Meengla

thetutle said:


> What a terrible thing to say.
> 
> The way Putin is behaving, this could be the end of him. It could also be the end of Russia. It wont survive as a country politically and economically isolated.
> 
> Putin has turned his country into North Korea or the Soviet Union, but without the ideology to follow. People will become communist al over the world, but how many will support a greater Russian empire? not a single country in the world.
> 
> EU is publicly funding the war against Russia, this is without precedent. Even in the Cold War, the arming of the Mujahideen was done secretly. Now they are telling the world what missiles Ukraine will kill Russians with.
> 
> Russia is not going to come out of this.



Russia is destined to be a country limited to the west of the Urals and integrated with Europe. From Peter the Great's time. The megalomania of the USSR days are unachievable. But I wish the West had waited until after Putin passed away. What is destined to happen, will happen over time. But sadly too many lives would be lost before that.

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## Enigma SIG

waz said:


> I don't understand the Russian use of heavy armour along well kept roads. They're just funnelling their forces to predetermined kill points (so many burnt out vehicles already). Mass infantry moving through the forests to take the Ukrainian anti-tank teams is what they should be aiming for. I think they're too impatient in all this, or they're running short of money for the war.


Shouldn't have gone directly for Kiev. Focusing on the eastern and southern areas and freeing them would've been enough.

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## Inception-06

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497984141987483648


@Desert Fox 1 you are absence ? Lessons to learn for Pakistan, regarding convoy movement and protection of communication and logistical lines.

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## Indian Libertarian

pakpride00090 said:


> Yikes..... This will definitely bring Nukes in picture. Russia will not be able to handle a collective EU.


Or they cut all connections between Eastern and Western Ukraine, effectively partitioning it.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497989931683270661

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## dbc

waz said:


> Dude you're back, so are several other long time members. Hope you are well.


Thanks Waz, yes all good. Took a break from pdf for my own sanity.

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## dBSPL

I should add that Russia's heavy defeat(political and economic) is not in the interests of Pakistan or Turkey. In fact, it is not suitable for Europe too.

I hope a honorable way out can be created for Russia.

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## INS_Vikrant

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497973334847414278


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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Thanks
> 
> I think it's more like a lump of unwanted cancer landed on Chinese doorstep.
> 
> Would Chinese even want to touch that pile of.....? I don't know. But as far as I see, this is going to become a liability of China.



If he will return Outer Northeast. Otherwise, he will need really to be ready to crawl in front of Xi


----------



## Flight of falcon

Ali_Baba said:


> View attachment 819335





Wow why not say Ukrainians are advancing on to Moscow. This war's pathetic propaganda and lies overage beat everything mankind has ever seen before. Entire Western world is against one country. Russians have behaved extremely admirable so far avoiding causing damage to the civilian areas and to civilians. 
They have not thrown in 5% of their power. These are limited operations pushing and encircling some cities. If Russians choose to neutralize defenders they can go Grozny way......

NATO in their shock and awe horror over Baghdad dropped 900 bombs and killed 5000 civilians first night alone.

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## Indian Libertarian

Passionaire said:


> May Russia will fires all its nukes towards U.S.


Dude wtf, the whole world dies if that happens.

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## That Guy

waz said:


> I don't understand the Russian use of heavy armour along well kept roads. They're just funnelling their forces to predetermined kill points (so many burnt out vehicles already). Mass infantry moving through the forests to take the Ukrainian anti-tank teams is what they should be aiming for. I think they're too impatient in all this, or they're running short of money for the war.


It makes me think their armour isn't meant for rough terrain, due to being too old and maintenance heavy. It would explain they insisted on taking roads, when the shortest and safest paths were likely to go off road.

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## Inception-06

@PanzerKiel whats your dossier about the performance of Russian mobile armour warfare in this war ?

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## Enigma SIG

Flight of falcon said:


> Wow why not say Ukrainians are advancing on to Moscow. This war's pathetic propaganda and lies overage beat everything mankind has ever seen before. Entire Western world is against one country. Russians have behaved extremely admirable so far avoiding causing damage to the civilian areas and to civilians.
> They have not thrown in 5% of their power. These are limited operations pushing and encircling some cities. If Russians choose to neutralize defenders they can go Grozny way......
> 
> NATO in their shock and awe horror over Baghdad dropped 900 bombs and killed 5000 civilians first night alone.


Yeah if you go by twitter, you'll feel Zelensky is just outside the Red Square waiting to strangle Putin with his own hands.

Putin has them by the balls and they know it. Men and material losses? Yeah it's a war.

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## Flight of falcon

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497989931683270661




This is no good.....Respect for the Russians who are so far treating civilians with care. NATO soldiers would have called an air strike by now...

They are deliberately provoking Russian soldiers...

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## beast89

Also no chechen general has been killed on the battlefied, Ukrainian disinfo again. The source is POW stating this https://en.memesrandom.com/magomed-tushaev/

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## That Guy

dbc said:


> Thanks Waz, yes all good. Took a break from pdf for my own sanity.


I have to do that from time to time as well, lol.

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## Meengla

dBSPL said:


> I should add that Russia's heavy defeat(political and economic) is not in the interests of Pakistan or Turkey. In fact, it is not suitable for Europe too.
> 
> I hope a honorable way out can be created for Russia.



You got that right! And Pakistanis know that well.
If the war gets out of hand, then America and its reliable poodle the UK are more protected because of geographical buffers. Europeans are trying to not appear to repeat the Neville Chamberlain moment but there will be a very heavy price for Europe if and when Putin decides to *go truly mad*! He will NOT accept any defeat. 
We should all pray for a quick ceasefire!

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## Ali_Baba

dBSPL said:


> EU Commission President von der Leyen announced that they will impose new economic sanctions on Belarus.
> 
> EU high representative Borrell: Russian central bank reserve will be blocked.



The EU has finally got their fingers out - days after the UK shamed them into it with the UKs more nimble response.


----------



## Indian Libertarian

Enigma SIG said:


> Yeah if you go by twitter, you'll feel Zelensky is just outside the Red Square waiting to strangle Putin with his own hands.
> 
> Putin has them by the balls and they know it. Men and material losses? Yeah it's a war.


I think Twitter overly sensationalizes the war but the Russian offensive has stalled either way.

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## jamal18

waz said:


> I don't understand the Russian use of heavy armour along well kept roads. They're just funnelling their forces to predetermined kill points (so many burnt out vehicles already). Mass infantry moving through the forests to take the Ukrainian anti-tank teams is what they should be aiming for. I think they're too impatient in all this, or they're running short of money for the war.


Yes, but dismounted infantry move slowly. The armour seizes the critical points and eliminates larger enemy formations. Capture the lines of communications, cut off the country from resupply. The second phase is the dismounted infantry taking the towns.

The advance seems to be slow, I think the Russians didn't throw in enough troops at the beginning.

Russia has to win this, and win it well. Anything less is the end of any pretence of being a major power.

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## Indian Libertarian

Ali_Baba said:


> The EU has finally got their fingers out - days after the UK shamed them into it with the UKs more nimble response.


Putin was probably betting on tension within EU. I don’t think he expected the amount of sanctions.

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## Flight of falcon

Hey check this out. Another BS story Western media was trying to glorify....Turned out untrue:









Ukrainians who told Russian warship to ‘go f–k yourself’ may still be alive, officials say


The 13 Ukrainian border guards who were reportedly massacred while defending a small Black Sea island after telling a Russian warship to “Go f–k yourself” may still be alive, officials said.




nypost.com





They are probably shitting in their pants and blaming each other as to who said :Go F...Yourself...

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497986649803968515

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## pakpride00090

dBSPL said:


> I should add that Russia's heavy defeat(political and economic) is not in the interests of Pakistan or Turkey. In fact, it is not suitable for Europe too.
> 
> I hope a honorable way out can be created for Russia.



I disagree. 

Russia and whole of EU will be wrecked. Western world will suffer. I think it is about time they suffer what they have been promoting in muslims lands for last few decades. 

May the nukes fly over. Hope Putin goes down like a hero.

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## Paul2

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497977050703048711
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497976718287679488
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497976504210259971



About Baraktars, I am doing count. They already claimed more TB2 kills than the number what Ukraine officially declared to have.


----------



## waz

dbc said:


> Thanks Waz, yes all good. Took a break from pdf for my own sanity.



Good to see you back bro, and nice to see you are well. 
I had someone else (western poster) tell me one of the reasons he is back as he was sick of all the one sided NATO cheer and wanted to see what others in the world thought (Twitter is limited), who he wished to engage, even though he is pro Ukraine.

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## jamal18

Tucker Carlson on the war. About 10 mins.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497886037409947649

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## Steppe Wolff

beast89 said:


> Also no chechen general has been killed on the battlefied, Ukrainian disinfo again. The source is POW stating this https://en.memesrandom.com/magomed-tushaev/


Yes, another BS by Western Media like the Ukrainian Sailors who told Russians to go f**k themselves which later proved to be a BS too.

But you have to hand it to the Ukrainians, they are excelling in Information war and spreading disinformation quite effectively albeit having full support of entire West.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497993304633483268


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## waz

That Guy said:


> It makes me think their armour isn't meant for rough terrain, due to being too old and maintenance heavy. It would explain they insisted on taking roads, when the shortest and safest paths were likely to go off road.



Yes looks like it. I'm surprised they didn't wait for the troop delude then move armour in. But I guess that would take at least 2 weeks to happen.


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## dBSPL

Central Bank of Russia: The Central Bank will buy gold from the domestic market

Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu: "The situation in Ukraine has turned into a 'war'; we will apply the Montreux provisions transparently."

Denmark has confirmed that it will donate 2,700 ATGMs.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497987741354799108
 Tomorrow there will be a blood bath in the Russian markets


----------



## Ali_Baba

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497982746123247623
"Sweden just announced it will deliver 5000 anti-armour rocket launchers, 5000 body armour kits, 5000 helmets, and 135,000 field rations to the Ukrainian armed forces"

WOW !!!! 

that is alot of ATGMs.. more than the number of Russian tanks and armoured vechicles in Ukraine right now.

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## That Guy

Flight of falcon said:


> Hey check this out. Another BS story Western media was trying to glorify....Turned out untrue:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainians who told Russian warship to ‘go f–k yourself’ may still be alive, officials say
> 
> 
> The 13 Ukrainian border guards who were reportedly massacred while defending a small Black Sea island after telling a Russian warship to “Go f–k yourself” may still be alive, officials said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nypost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are probably shitting in their pants and blaming each other as to who said :Go F...Yourself...


This is old news. Fog of war, it's Russia's own fault for not presenting them from the beginning.

As it is, both sides are presenting heavy propaganda. Russia's problem is that their propaganda is so bullshit, that its completely unbelievable. Whereas the Ukrainians at least try to make it believable.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497984117912137733


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## waz

jamal18 said:


> Yes, but dismounted infantry move slowly. The armour seizes the critical points and eliminates larger enemy formations. Capture the lines of communications, cut off the country from resupply. The second phase is the dismounted infantry taking the towns.
> 
> The advance seems to be slow, I think the Russians didn't throw in enough troops at the beginning.
> 
> Russia has to win this, and win it well. Anything less is the end of any pretence of being a major power.



The thing is they needed the mobile infantry with them i.e. mass APC's and IFV's, but they seem to be strangely absent with the tanks.


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## Flight of falcon

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497993304633483268





Psychological warfare!!!! keep them awake and on their toes!!!


----------



## Indian Libertarian

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497984117912137733


Seems far less than the burning vehicles would indicate.

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## M.AsfandYar

RescueRanger said:


> This is very troubling:
> 
> https://****/RKadyrov_95/1265
> ^ Use the in browser feature to translate!


Cnat see what is it?

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## Ali_Baba

dbc said:


> Thanks to sanctions Russian oligarchs will be forced to transact its mineral wealth via China on terms favourable to the Chinese. That in itself is a big win for the Chinese.
> A prospect Russian oligarchs will find particularly repugnant since it will severely limit their returns.
> 
> Frankly, I suspect Putin's days are numbered. A new Russian leader will likely emerge restoring the détente with the west.



They can restore détente maybe - but trust is completely gone - everyone is shocked how quickly this went south and how little they are prepared to deal with a militant russia..


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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497994069993308164

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497994174678900750

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497993783014797313

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## That Guy

jamal18 said:


> Tucker Carlson on the war. About 10 mins.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497886037409947649


Who cares, Tucker Carlson is an admitted liar (he admits to it in court) and a clown.


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## Flight of falcon

That Guy said:


> This is old news. Fog of war, it's Russia's own fault for not presenting them from the beginning.
> 
> As it is, both sides are presenting heavy propaganda. Russia's problem is that their propaganda is so bullshit, that its completely unbelievable. Whereas the Ukrainians at least try to make it believable.


Ukrainians have the support of entire Western IT , media and propaganda infrastructure.

Yesterday another headline I read on Yahoo made me LOL....

EX- ESTONIAN DEFENCE MINISTER predicted complete disaster for the Russian Forces......Seriously? Ex??? Estonia????

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## Inception-06

waz said:


> The thing is they needed the mobile infantry with them i.e. mass APC's and IFV's, but they seem to be strangely absent with the tanks.



Most of the movements by the Russians is done without proper or any surveillance intelligence clearance, it’s like they just tipping in one hornet net after a another. Totally absence of UAV and ground surveillance units, I guess it’s matter of time and such NATO standards are not widely fixed in Russian doctrine.

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## Bilal.

That Guy said:


> Who cares, Tucker Carlson is an admitted liar (he admits to it in court) and a clown.


He “can be” the next President of the United States.


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## Domobran7

thetutle said:


> Thats just a clueless thing to say. I blame the Croatian education system. Do you want to live in a country where you have no say in who rules over you? Of course not, you live in a democracy and continue to live in a democracy. you are free to leave Croatia and go to Peoples republic of Donetsk if you like.


I already know how it is to live in a country where I have no say in who rules over me. HDZ and SDP are the same pieces of garbage, and the same goes for all other parties. Elections are a formality, as politicians will do the same thing anyway no matter what party they are part of.

I live in a democracy? What a joke. For starters, democracy isn't something that exists in this world to begin with. And the last time anything went _right _for Croatia, we weren't in a "democracy" to begin with.

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## Flight of falcon

waz said:


> Yes looks like it. I'm surprised they didn't wait for the troop delude then move armour in. But I guess that would take at least 2 weeks to happen.




Weather is a major factor. The ground is too soft and they are forced to travel on paved Highways only. Even some bridges are not able to support T80 weight and have seen pictures of tanks fallen on their side in ravines and river.

Terrible weather with soft ground causing slow advance on roads packed with ambush traps and mines.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497995242863308809

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497992054663782403

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497995878501601285

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497984267275489281


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## Meengla

That Guy said:


> Who cares, Tucker Carlson is an admitted liar (he admits to it in court) and a clown.



At this point, any major journalist willing to question the official narrative to try to give an alternate perspective is *an asset to humanity*. Tucker maybe a liar and so are most journalists associated with major Western news outlets. The American disastrous war in Iraq of 2003 was at least partly because there were just not enough Tucker Carlsons in journalism.

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## waz

Inception-06 said:


> Most of the movements by the Russians is done without proper or any surveillance intelligence clearance, it’s like they just tip in one hornet net after the other. Totally absence of UAV and ground surveillance units, I guess it’s matter of time and such NATO standards are not widely fixed in Russian doctrine.



Yes this is very accurate. Surprised to be honest.

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## sammuel

~ 


As a world leader , one might be expected to think maybe this is not exactly what the world needs , after two years of corona virus.


~

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## waz

Flight of falcon said:


> Weather is a major factor. The ground is too soft and they are forced to travel on paved Highways only. Even some bridges are not able to support T80 weight and have seen pictures of tanks fallen on their side in ravines and river.
> 
> Terrible weather with soft ground causing slow advance on roads packed with ambush traps and mines.



Aye yes.

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## A1Kaid

Inception-06 said:


> Most of the movements by the Russians is done without proper or any surveillance intelligence clearance, it’s like they just tip in one hornet net after the other. Totally absence of UAV and ground surveillance units, I guess it’s matter of time and such NATO standards are not widely fixed in Russian doctrine.



As far as I know they first wave of soldiers they've sent to Ukraine are mostly conscripts, Chechen paramilitary, and some conventional forces and they're only using 1/3 of the 100k-130k soldiers they have ready to go.

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## Ali_Baba

waz said:


> I seriously doubt this is even 30% accurate.....27 planes?



Some of it looks beliveable - some of it is not. But there is a lot of false information flying around. I will delete it.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497996321516568579

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497996003248676871

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497996291133124609

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## Enigma SIG

Indian Libertarian said:


> I think Twitter overly sensationalizes the war but the Russian offensive has stalled either way.


Again, without verified sources this is conjecture. Some burning equipment on the roads doesn't mean the offensive stalled. Ukraine should fear the troop surge if Putin really wants to go for the kill. He will flatten cities we've seen it before.

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## Flight of falcon

If I was in charge in Russia I would send out a stark warning. Any built up area used to ambush my forces would be wiped clean of existence. Any country sending arms to kill my soldiers will be the next on my list.


----------



## dbc

waz said:


> Good to see you back bro, and nice to see you are well.
> I had someone else (western poster) tell me one of the reasons he is back as he was sick of all the one sided NATO cheer and wanted to see what others in the world thought (Twitter is limited), who he wished to engage, even though he is pro Ukraine.


I find myself drawn to pdf to challenge my own established world view.
In real life as well I find myself seeking diversity in all things, culture, food , history and friendship.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497997148104925189

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## dBSPL

The White House called on China to consider Russia's military action against Ukraine as an "occupation".

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## alimobin memon

Its simple abandoned vehicles ran out of fuel and they had to complete mission so they left them and later destroyed by ukrainians. Russia fields so many vehicles and most of the vehicles used in operation are outdated and near to out of order apart from some armored transport. Only war russia is losing is twitter war. The videos that show dead russian soldiers in total are not more then few 100's. 

But, loses apart no one knows what real time length is given by russian command to completely sieze kiev. It looks like right now russians are playing soft and waiting for reason to go full scale operation.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497996321516568579
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497996003248676871
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497996291133124609


May GOD have Mercy upon these helpless folks....

And, we sometimes complain about trivial matters like extra salt in the soup....

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497973069708734464


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## Indian Libertarian

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> May GOD have Mercy upon these helpless folks....
> 
> And, we sometimes complain about trivial matters like extra sault in the soup....


As much as we talk about the combat here, the Ukrainians and Russian people affected by sanctions are the ones that will suffer.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497997019515961347

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497994858748952583

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## Falcon29

RescueRanger said:


> Unable to link Telegram for some reason. Here is the text
> 
> Вот уже четвёртый день продолжается наша специальная операция на Украине. Но мне непонятно, почему мы продолжаем нянчиться с бандеровцами? Ведь с первого дня очевидно, что националисты другого языка, кроме силы, не настроены понимать.
> 
> Харьков с Киевом от бандеровцев не очистить на одних "Тиграх" "Уралах" и УАЗиках. Они там вооружены до зубов новым оружием, амуницией, тяжелой техникой последнего поколения, а мы с ними все еще возимся в надежде на благоразумие украинских властей и руководства вооруженных сил.
> 
> Если "майданутые" сами не жалеют и не берегут собственный народ, то почему мы должны подставлять своих парней?! Настало время принимать конкретное решение и начать крупномасштабную операцию по всем направлениям и территории Украины. Я сам лично не раз разрабатывал тактику и стратегию против террористов, участвовал в боях. В моем понимании выбранная тактика на Украине слишком медлительная. Она длится долго и, на мой взгляд, не эффективна.
> 
> Надо уже освобождать города и населённые пункты от бандеровцев, "Азова" и других нацистов. Полная координация действий военных, грамотная расстановка сил и решительный штурм. Все! Больше ничего не нужно.
> 
> Они восемь лет убивали свой народ, чтобы удержать власть. Россия встала на защиту угнетенных людей и в итоге против нас приняты всевозможные санкции. Европа, Запад сделали все мыслимое и немыслимое, чтобы навредить России. Так зачем нам сейчас останавливаться? Надо закончить начатое и без оглядки идти только вперед. Будь что будет. На войне и убивают, и разрушают. Без этого никак, к сожалению. Но если украинский народ и вооруженные силы не хотят с нами вести диалог, отмахиваются от переговоров и не намерены принимать меры в отношении нацистов и шайтанов, то мы обязаны закончить начатое и сделать это оперативно.
> 
> Нам не нужны потери. Каждая жизнь нашего человека для нас важнее всего. И раз они дважды отказались от переговоров, то нам остаётся только менять тактику. Это будет убедительнее для них.
> 
> Я прошу руководство страны, Верховного Главнокомандующего Вооруженными силами России Владимира Путина дать всем спецподразделениям соответствующий приказ, чтобы они смогли закончить с нацистами и, конечно, с террористами, которые убивали в Чеченской Республике наших женщин, стариков, детей.
> 
> ************************************** TRANSLATION ****************************************************
> *******************************************************************************************************
> ‎Our special operation in Ukraine has been going on for the fourth day. But I don't understand why we continue to babysit the Banderaites? After all, from the first day it is obvious that nationalists of a language other than strength are not in the mood to understand.‎
> 
> ‎Kharkiv and Kiev cannot be cleared of Banderites on the "Tigers" "Urals" and UAZiks alone. They are armed to the teeth with new weapons, ammunition, heavy equipment of the latest generation, and we are still messing with them in the hope of the prudence of the Ukrainian authorities and the leadership of the armed forces.‎
> 
> ‎If the "Maidanuts" themselves do not regret and do not take care of their own people, then why should we frame our guys?! It is time to make a concrete decision and launch a large-scale operation in all directions and territory of Ukraine. I personally have repeatedly developed tactics and strategies against terrorists, participated in battles. In my understanding, the chosen tactics in Ukraine are too slow. It lasts a long time and, in my opinion, is not effective.‎
> 
> ‎It is necessary to liberate cities and towns from the Banderaites, Azov and other Nazis. Full coordination of military actions, competent alignment of forces and a decisive assault. All! You don't need anything else.‎
> 
> ‎They killed their people for eight years to hold on to power. Russia stood up for the oppressed people and as a result, all sorts of sanctions were taken against us. Europe and the West have done everything imaginable and unthinkable to harm Russia. So why should we stop now? It is necessary to finish what we started and go only forward without looking back. Whatever happens. In war, they both kill and destroy. Unfortunately, there is no way without it. But if the Ukrainian people and armed forces do not want to conduct a dialogue with us, dismiss negotiations and do not intend to take measures against the Nazis and Satanists, then we must finish what we started and do it promptly.‎
> 
> ‎We don't need losses. Every life of our person is most important to us. And since they twice refused to negotiate, then we can only change tactics. It will be more convincing for them.‎
> 
> ‎I ask the country's leadership, Supreme Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Armed Forces Vladimir Putin, to give all special forces an appropriate order so that they can finish with the Nazis and, of course, with the terrorists who killed our women, old people and children in the Chechen Republic.‎
> 
> 
> Original Source: Source: https://****/RKadyrov_95/1265


I'm not about the kill and destroy, but he has a point about the tactics. Russia's adversaries have interest now in slowing down Russian invasion and inflicting heavy losses on Russian forces. The anti-tank weapons they are sending in are proving to be effective. I'm surprised Russia tanks not equipped with trophy systems which intercept anti-tank projectiles. 

Anyhow, I think the issue here is not from military sense. If Russia wanted to they could accelerate ground invasion effort. I believe they don't have a counter-strategy against economic and political isolation. EU is not weak. They are putting an effort without getting directly involved in combat. Add US to equation and it is troubling for Russia when China and India didn't do much more than express political support for Russia's security interests.

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## Oublious

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497997019515961347




LOL...


It turns out that TB2 is a alien technology ahahahah....

This is Tor M3 version....


next Russian SAM should be S-400.. a


asdçzvnlckwnsf mpqefjvm,ac  


Rusian fanboys go cry...


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## Paul2

A1Kaid said:


> As far as I know they first wave of soldiers they've sent to Ukraine are mostly conscripts, Chechen paramilitary, and some conventional forces and they're only using 1/3 of the 100k-130k soldiers they have ready to go.



Not all of these 130k troops are combat troops. For 60k-70k combat force, you have 40k-30k auxiliaries like medics, logistics, intel, c&c, comms, food, long range artillery, engineers, etc

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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497973069708734464


That guy play too much video games I supposed, and think this is escape from kharkov....

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497952908821860356


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## Enigma SIG

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> May GOD have Mercy upon these helpless folks....
> 
> And, we sometimes complain about trivial matters like extra salt in the soup....


War is shit. Pakistan went through tough years as well because of western imposed wars. No love lost here.

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## Mrc

One thing to note is that with all those pics of burned armor there are no dead bodies

It's more like they were abandoned due to lack of fuel before being blown up

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## Messerschmitt

Oublious said:


> LOL...
> 
> 
> It turns out that TB2 is a alien technology ahahahah....
> 
> This is Tor M3 version....
> 
> 
> next Russian SAM should be S-400.. a
> 
> 
> asdçzvnlckwnsf mpqefjvm,ac
> 
> 
> Rusian fanboys go cry...


It's a Russian Buk system. Most likely either a Buk-M1 or Buk-M1-2 TEL.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497954802365513732


----------



## 1ndy

Mrc said:


> One thing to note is that with all those pics of burned armor there are no dead bodies
> 
> It's more like they were abandoned due to lack of fuel before being blown up


None of the pics show inside of vehicles... they don't hang outside the tanks and APCs...

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## Oublious

When Russians hit airbases, all the Russian fanboys wher talking about all the TB2 are destroyed...


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## Flight of falcon

Mrc said:


> One thing to note is that with all those pics of burned armor there are no dead bodies
> 
> It's more like they were abandoned due to lack of fuel before being blown up




Very true....Almost all the armour seems to be stuck/abandoned or looks like over stretched supply lines making them run out of fuel. 
Very few dead bodies if any. Its possible that they were ambushed and first strike made them dismount to avoid anti tank guided missiles.

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## Vapnope

jhungary said:


> That guy play too much video games I supposed, and think this is escape from kharkov....


Hey man, you are here after a long time. It is good to have you back q


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## dBSPL

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497997148104925189


After the loss of large numbers of BUK and Pantsir-S at three diffirent theater, Russia announced that it had updated its air defense systems against tactical UAV threats. Despite this, they still have the same problem in Ukraine.

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## That Guy

Meengla said:


> At this point, any major journalist willing to question the official narrative to try to give an alternate perspective is *an asset to humanity*. Tucker maybe a liar and so are most journalists associated with major Western news outlets. The American disastrous war in Iraq of 2003 was at least partly because there were just not enough Tucker Carlsons in journalism.


No, it was precisely due to there being too many Tucker Carlsons. Fox news was the biggest proponent of the war, and supported bush all the way.

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497974258735194115


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## Ahmad Saleem

alimobin memon said:


> Its simple abandoned vehicles ran out of fuel and they had to complete mission so they left them and later destroyed by ukrainians. Russia fields so many vehicles and most of the vehicles used in operation are outdated and near to out of order apart from some armored transport. Only war russia is losing is twitter war. The videos that show dead russian soldiers in total are not more then few 100's.
> 
> But, loses apart no one knows what real time length is given by russian command to completely sieze kiev. It looks like right now russians are playing soft and waiting for reason to go full scale operation.


If russians are running out of fuel just on the third day of invasion then its even a bigger problem than being hit by Ukrainians. How will they sustain their supplies in the long run?


----------



## 1ndy

Oublious said:


> When Russians hit airbases, all the Russian fanboys wher talking about all the TB2 are destroyed...


as per their claims, they have already shoot more than turkey produced till date. 🤣

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## Oublious

dBSPL said:


> After the loss of large numbers of BUK and Pantsir-S at three diffirent theater, Russia announced that it had updated its air defense systems against tactical UAV threats. Despite this, they still have the same problem in Ukraine.




You should ad this to, this is not EXPORT version...

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## LeGenD

M. Sarmad said:


> The number of Pakistani posters here defending the Imperialist NATO is appalling....
> 
> More power to Russia .. Someone has finally stood up to the US of A, the biggest terrorist in the human history



What about a lengthy history of Pakistan - Ukraine defense deals?

Russia assaulted Ukraine (not USA) for your kind information. 

Your POV is appaling.

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## That Guy

Flight of falcon said:


> Ukrainians have the support of entire Western IT , media and propaganda infrastructure.
> 
> Yesterday another headline I read on Yahoo made me LOL....
> 
> EX- ESTONIAN DEFENCE MINISTER predicted complete disaster for the Russian Forces......Seriously? Ex??? Estonia????


Your problem is listening to Yahoo news, which is nothing more than a joke.

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## Meengla

That Guy said:


> No, it was precisely due to there being too many Tucker Carlsons. Fox news was the biggest proponent of the war, and supported bush all the way.



Fox News was--as was the NY Times after some slap on the wrist 'anti-war' stance. Right now, Tucker is the only one I see in the 'mainstream media' with a huge following who is openly questioning the America-led war. He is probably doing this just to score some points against Biden. If Trump was the President then he'd probably stay silent or even support the war. But it is what it is and the world, especially the Americans must know all sides!!


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## 1ndy

Ahmad Saleem said:


> If russians are running out of fuel just on the third day of invasion then its even a bigger problem than being hit by Ukrainians. How will they sustain their supplies in the long run?


Superpower Russia...


----------



## Mrc

1ndy said:


> None of the pics show inside of vehicles... they don't hang outside the tanks and APCs...




Well if u watch Syrian and Iraqi videos burned out bodies are freely visible ... completely lacking in ukerinian videos

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## fallschirmjager786

Been a long time observer on this forum with a somewhat pro-pakistan but mostly neutral stance. Some of the comments here made me create an account just to put in my 2 cents. Pretty funny to see some posters here taking Russia's side and calling for nukes etc. 

Quite clear the Russian objectives have not been met. he can try and be more indiscriminate but turning Kiev into rubble will further entrench opposition and spark a worse partisan backlash in the future. And those 200K plus troops, not all are combat echelons, a good chunk will be Supply and other support arms, artillery etc. He has sent it what he could without overextending themselves. Just look at the expressions on the faces of the Russian generals, their not happy. Lavrov just 2 days ago said no negotiations until regime change. Their already talking. The state of the army is no shock, this is what happens in a dictatorship and kleptocracy, everyone steals from the bottom up and lies to keep their jobs safe. No doubt Putins generals told him everything was ready, enough fuel was there all the while the conscripts were selling the fuel for booze etc on the field. 

Russia's best hope is to try and mitigate the sanctions by reaching an agreement, they will try to take as much land and maybe a city or 2 as a negotiating chip. Your already seeing their new front line t90s as burning wrecks. They wouldn't be asking belorus, Kazakhstan for troops and sending in toy chechens. These are not the same chechens from the past.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497999692562587650


----------



## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498003579847725065


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498004048162787328


----------



## jhungary

Vapnope said:


> Hey man, you are here after a long time. It is good to have you back q


Yeah, for this, two days, afterward, we will see

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## 1ndy

Mrc said:


> Well if u watch Syrian and Iraqi videos burned out bodies are freely visible ... completely lacking in ukerinian videos


Then where are they going after abandoning their million dollars toys? captured alive? ran away?


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## Falcon29

*Russia continues to make gains:*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498002779914354694


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## CrazyZ

Any details on why the Russians were not able to completely knock out Ukrainian air defenses? 

IMO, the Russians didn't strike hard enough in the beginning. 30K soldiers is nothing, Pakistan sent more forces to the FATA to beat back the TTP and FATA is microscopic when compared to Ukraine.

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## fallschirmjager786

1ndy said:


> Then where are they going after abandoning their million dollars toys? captured alive? ran away?



Bodies recovered or removed. Most vids are probably taken after the fact. Don't think civilians would be milling out right after a fight. Troops probably dismounted and withdrawn if they made it out alive and bodies recovered.

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## Indian Libertarian

CrazyZ said:


> Any details on why the Russians were not able to completely knock out Ukrainian air defenses?
> 
> IMO, the Russians didn't strike hard enough in the beginning. 30K soldiers is nothing, Pakistan sent more forces to the FATA to beat back the TTP and FATA is microscopic when compared to Ukraine.


I don’t even know if they had a proper SEAD campaign in the beginning stages.


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## That Guy

Falcon29 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497974258735194115


2000 is literally nothing. Its nowhere near enough for an attack force, not even as reinforcement.


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## fallschirmjager786

Falcon29 said:


> *Russia continues to make gains:*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498002779914354694



Single isolated units, Russians are extending their front lines and leaving flanks and supply exposed and vulnerable to destruction by the Ukrainians. Seems to me the gameplan for the Ukrainians. Most resources again are probably at Kiev and Close to Donbass/Kharkiv.

Tanks can go as far as their fuel tanks will allow but once the fuel runs out the advance is done.

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## dBSPL

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498004048162787328


This attitude is wrong.

I think we should say that, yes, Putin, you have accomplished everything and destroyed all the military capacity of Ukraine, please let's deal now.

Otherwise, TOPOL-Ms will take to the streets of Moscow with neon lights, sound system and extra-large rims. God forbid, let's not go through madness.

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## That Guy

LeGenD said:


> What about a lengthy history of Pakistan - Ukraine defense deals?
> 
> Russia assaulted Ukraine (not USA) for your kind information.
> 
> Your POV is appaling.


A lot of the usual mental-slaves are once again forgetting that while Russia continued to arm India with advanced weapons to fight Pakistan, Ukraine upgraded and offered to sell (including ToT) Ukrainian defense equipment. There was a reason why Pakistan Army was still interested in Ukrainian tanks, even after buying the VT-4s.

While Ukraine has treated Pakistan with respect, Russia has continued to use Pakistan to blackmail India into buying more stuff, making a fool out of Pakistan.

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## Trango Towers

EU just announced that it will send weapons to Ukraine and has closed airspace to all Russian aircraft including private jets.
This is a significant shift in EU policy


----------



## sur

sur said:


> As per RT, *Russia offered to have talks in Belarus which Ukraine didn't agree* to.
> Ukraine offered Poland, which Russia didn't agree to.
> 
> So the stall mate may be just not agreeing on location.
> 
> 
> 
> Also Ukraine asked for 3rd part guarantee, if they had talks.
> Russia asked for 3 points:
> 
> Demilitarize.
> Be impartial (don't side with NATO).
> Denazification (remove influence of neo-Nazis and nationalists who have been committing atrocities in Donbass since 2014).
> Plus, a suggestion by Putin that Ukraine military take over the leadership because Putin said it will be easy to have talks with Ukraine military rather than government.
> 
> 
> 
> See 2nd tweet below: 👇



Looks like they have now agreed on Belarus.

May be that's why there is calm in the air tonight!

Ukraine agrees to hold talks with Russia in Belarus – Moscow​


https://www.rt.com/russia/550765-ukraine-agrees-talks-russia/





Read_ coming in_ as _calm _:

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## Falcon29

That Guy said:


> 2000 is literally nothing. Its nowhere near enough for an attack force, not even as reinforcement.


I think it depends on the objective. Are they leading another attack force or they are the attack force?


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497860334736089094


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## Trango Towers

sur said:


> Looks like they have now agreed on Belarus.
> 
> May be that's why there is calm in the air tonight!
> 
> Ukraine agrees to hold talks with Russia in Belarus – Moscow​
> 
> 
> https://www.rt.com/russia/550765-ukraine-agrees-talks-russia/


If Ukraine agrees to no NATO expansion and limits its military purchases we may get an agreement and an end to the war.
No way will Russia compromise on the 1st point

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## TNT

The amount of western propaganda in this war is too high. Doesn't affect russia though and they will keep advancing.

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## 1ndy

dBSPL said:


> This attitude is wrong.
> 
> I think we should say that, yes, Putin, you have accomplished everything and destroyed all the military capacity of Ukraine, please let's deal now.
> 
> Otherwise, TOPOL-Ms will take to the streets of Moscow with neon lights, sound system and extra-large rims. God forbid, let's not go through madness.


I believe NATO with US have enough information about their launching sites and locations of their submarines. Russia can launch only a few before it turned into a wasteland.


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## hussain0216

After a few days of war, I think things are going exactly as planned for Russia

They have hardly used any of their military beyond a limited force

They have hardly used any air power

You can see with where they are targeting within Ukraine what their plans are and after 4 or so days of battle, I think they are where they want to be



For some reason they European's think Putin is Thanos a d anything short of complete annihilation of Ukraine within hours is a humiliation


If by military means or through negotiation, the Russians get the eastern breakaway states and Ukraine is turned into a buffer state between Russia and NATO I think the Russians got what they wanted from this conflict

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## Primus

Paul2 said:


> About Baraktars, I am doing count. They already claimed more TB2 kills than the number what Ukraine officially declared to have.


Ive counted that Russia claimed 7 TB2. Ukraine has 12

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497949317319086083


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## CrazyZ

That Guy said:


> 2000 is literally nothing. Its nowhere near enough for an attack force, not even as reinforcement.


My guesses are the Russians kept this invasion on the light side since they wanted Ukraine in one piece while forcing a negotiated settlement.

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## Trango Towers

TNT said:


> The amount of western propaganda in this war is too high. Doesn't affect russia though and they will keep advancing.


Interesting how the west isolate inviduals and decalre them mentally unstable.
Saddam
Gaddafi
Asad 
And now Putin

Ofcourse only these individuals start and fight wars. They are individually evil and cause suffering to the masses

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## dBSPL

1ndy said:


> I believe NATO with US have enough information about their launching sites and locations of their submarines. Russia can launch only a few before it turned into a wasteland.


Part of NATO's nuclear arsenal is in Turkey. So if someone turns the key and presses the red button, I will die a few hours before you do. That's why I'm not as comfortable as you.

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## Falcon29

fallschirmjager786 said:


> Single isolated units, Russians are extending their front lines and leaving flanks and supply exposed and vulnerable to destruction by the Ukrainians. Seems to me the gameplan for the Ukrainians. Most resources again are probably at Kiev and Close to Donbass/Kharkiv.
> 
> Tanks can go as far as their fuel tanks will allow but once the fuel runs out the advance is done.


Yes, you are right, but it may be the strategy for regime change. Meanwhile in Kyiv:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498004225196019713

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## LeGenD

Falcon29 said:


> Ukraine has a professional-grade army with Western material and intelligence support. US fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. Iraqi Shia majority was against Saddam and happy to see his regime brought down. His army was not professional. Afghanistan has nothing more than lightly armed tribes. If US fought in somewhere like Egypt, it would face heavy casualties. Being a superpower does not enable to just boulder through a whole country with no trouble. Occupying one nation is a costly and long term task.



Ukraine is not a conventional military juggernaut (far from it); Ukranians have surprised Russians on the ground nevertheless. Vladimir Putin was of the view that Volodymyr Zelenskyy is a CIA plant and would be an easy picking because Ukranians won't pick up arms at his call - Putin is scratching his head now.

Iraq had managed to develop and field a very large and sophisticated army (and national defenses) by 1987 but US-led forces destroyed much of it in a brilliantly executed military operation in 1991. Literally no country is equipped to fight USA in conventional terms.

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## White privilege

I believe Putin is _making_ EU press all their buttons against Russia.At the end, regardless of the result of the present hostilities, Putin will be more resilient to EU pressure once he has plugged all those gaps.

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## Muhammed45



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## Trango Towers

CrazyZ said:


> My guesses are the Russians kept this invasion on the light side since they wanted Ukraine in one piece while forcing a negotiated settlement.


They only sent in limited troops and very little bombing of infrastructure. I mean no electricty cuts no Internet cuts no mobile phone cuts. 
Remember Iraq they even hit water purification plants the bastards

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## Meengla

That Guy said:


> A lot of the usual mental-slaves are once again forgetting that while Russia continued to arm India with advanced weapons to fight Pakistan, Ukraine upgraded and offered to sell (including ToT) Ukrainian defense equipment. There was a reason why Pakistan Army was still interested in Ukrainian tanks, even after buying the VT-4s.
> 
> While Ukraine has treated Pakistan with respect, Russia has continued to use Pakistan to blackmail India into buying more stuff, making a fool out of Pakistan.



That is such a naive reading of the war.
This war strengthens China, which is Pakistan's strongest ally. And you are talking about some weapons which Pakistan could acquire from other places?? And India paid hard cash for the Russian arms. Even here you'd see some Indian members are siding with the West against Russia. There are no permanent friends or enemies--only permanent interests for nations.
I don't know how anyone can miss the evolving geopolitical situation of Iran, Pakistan, China and Russia aligning their policies.

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## Falcon29

@fallschirmjager786 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498005055613685762


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## Meengla

1ndy said:


> I believe NATO with US have enough information about their launching sites and locations of their submarines. Russia can launch only a few before it turned into a wasteland.



Those 'few' would end the world as we know it. No more you, me and the PDF... But I believe Russia has multiple ways to end the world than just a few. Putin should be given a way out of this mess.


----------



## LeGenD

Trango Towers said:


> They only sent in limited troops and very little bombing of infrastructure. I mean no electricty cuts no Internet cuts no mobile phone cuts.
> Remember Iraq they even hit water purification plants the bastards



Civilian-purpose infrastructure of Iraq was working as well.











You can clearly see lights and vehicles moving on roads.

Russia have bombed Ukraine very heavily by now. Just wait for statistics to emerge. Hundreds of TBMs have been used, let alone other types of munitions. People think what is happening in Ukraine is a joke?

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## Indian Libertarian

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498006264277729286

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## Ali_Baba

Trango Towers said:


> EU just announced that it will send weapons to Ukraine and has closed airspace to all Russian aircraft including private jets.
> This is a significant shift in EU policy



AND the EU have mentioned they will purchase and supply Ukraine with weapons - that is very significant. The EU has been harping on about being a pillar of peace on mainland Europe - they are starting to slow earn that right now.


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## fallschirmjager786

Can't imagine the love for Putin. Don't forget which countries abstained from the UNSC action. There is a reason the Indians are feeling the heat. Indians are everywhere online justifying their actions against Ukraine claiming that Ukraine is pro Pakistan and its not in Indian interests to support them.

Ukrainians deserve support. They have already bloodied the Russians. The fact that there is a credible Ukrainian defence is the only reason NATO has started supplies of ATGM, before everyone had shrugged and accepted that Ukraine would be done in 2 days. Bet there would be no SWIFT sanctions if Russia had accomplished all its objectives and there was regime change in Ukraine. These Europeans were totally reluctant to poke the Russian bear. Now that the Russians have demonstrated that were it not for Nukes their a paper tiger with inflated capabilities, everyone is emboldened. Genius Putin has accomplished what he worked his entire career for, he has strenghtened the bonds between NATO and likely pushed Finland and Sweden into NATO's camp. His only hope is the GOP takeover of the US presidency.

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## Oublious

Today is the end of the Russian SAM system myth...




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498007105927880713

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## Falcon29

Indian Libertarian said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498006264277729286


@LeGenD @That Guy 

What's your take on this, fellas?


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## dBSPL

Indian Libertarian said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498006264277729286


So Putin slapped this general.


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## fallschirmjager786

Obviously things going well for Russia


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Absolutely outrageous racism against Indians in Ukraine right now. Why?????


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497945865922625547

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## M. Sarmad

LeGenD said:


> What about a lengthy history of Pakistan - Ukraine defense deals?
> 
> Russia assaulted Ukraine (not USA) for your kind information.
> 
> Your POV is appaling.



So, now you are deleting posts just because you don't agree with them ??

And FYI, NATO has directly attacked and killed Pakistani soldiers, Russia hasn't .. Remember Salala? 

No matter how much you try to spin it, the fact remains that It's Russia vs US/NATO imperialism.. Civilian casualties are always condemnable no matter what but you seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that it's the puppet regime of Ukraine that brought this on to Ukraine.. Russia alone is not responsible for this

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## fallschirmjager786

Only reason infrastructure in the East was not overly targeted was because Russia needs that for when they take over. Nevertheless they have targeted Gas pipelines, gas depots and other vital infrastructure.

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## dBSPL

Oublious said:


> Today is the end of the Russian SAM system myth...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498007105927880713


Delete bro...  Already 3 years of orders are full, no need for advertising.

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## 1ndy

Oublious said:


> Today is the end of the Russian SAM system myth...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498007105927880713


look at those Russian sissies taking cover under open sky.

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## Oublious

dBSPL said:


> Delete bro...  Already 3 years of orders are full, no need for advertising.




No no no, Russia have destroyed all the TB2 with destroying Airbases ahahahsdaskdnoslmcsxfqe,olv.....


Bayraktar will sell it like shoarma drone to the world....

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## fallschirmjager786

M. Sarmad said:


> So, now you are deleting posts just because you don't agree with them ??
> 
> And FYI, NATO has directly attacked and killed Pakistani soldiers, Russia hasn't .. Remember Salala?
> 
> No matter how much you try to spin it, the fact remains that It's Russia vs US/NATO imperialism.. Civilian casualties are always condemnable no matter what but you seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that it's the puppet regime of Ukraine that brought this on to Ukraine.. Russia alone is not responsible for this


Russias own internal assessment showed over 50% support for Zelensky even among the Ethnic Russians in the East of the country. Zelensky is not a puppet regime no matter what the Russian propoganda states.

Russians have targeted Pakistan. The country went to war against them in Afghanistan. Russians have also intervened on the side of India in major conflicts and effectively prevent further US intervention/Support.


----------



## Trango Towers

P


dBSPL said:


> Part of NATO's nuclear arsenal is in Turkey. So if someone turns the key and presses the red button, I will die a few hours before you do. That's why I'm not as comfortable as you.


Your time for death is written..you may due reading this message without a Nuclear war. Less drama please


----------



## Flight of falcon

LeGenD said:


> Civilian-purpose infrastructure of Iraq was working as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can clearly see lights and vehicles moving on roads.
> 
> Russia have bombed Ukraine very heavily by now. Just wait for statistics to emerge. Hundreds of TBMs have been used, let alone other types of munitions. People think what is happening in Ukraine is a joke?




Neither was what NATO and Allied troops did to other countries. When two countries go to war it is inevitable civilian casualties will happen. 

My only point is that the Russians have not done even a fraction of damage to the civilian areas and infrastructure compared to these bearers of Moral authorities did to Iraq, Afghanistan and other countries. Who are they to question war tactics and slam Russia. Might is right. The only difference is that they are watching on TV the rerun of death and destruction they caused in Iraq happening to their ally and feel helpless.


----------



## NotSure

That Guy said:


> 2000 is literally nothing. Its nowhere near enough for an attack force, not even as reinforcement.


Well, this is the third frontline, first and second are from Crimea and Donezk...


----------



## Trango Towers

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Absolutely outrageous racism against Indians in Ukraine right now. Why?????
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497945865922625547


Polish people are very racist. Won't surprise me

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## 1ndy

Flight of falcon said:


> Neither was what NATO and Allied troops did to other countries. When two countries go to war it is inevitable civilian casualties will happen.
> 
> My only point is that the Russians have not done even a fraction of damage to the civilian areas and infrastructure compared to these bearers of Moral authorities did to Iraq, Afghanistan and other countries. Who are they to question war tactics and slam Russia. Might is right. The only difference is that they are watching on TV the rerun of death and destruction they caused in Iraq happening to their ally and feel helpless.


If I say Ukrainian not allowing them to do so? Man, they are running out of fuel mid ways... so much for being the largest oil producer.


----------



## Clutch

Indian Libertarian said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498006264277729286



If this is true... A big "if".... Then things are not going good for the Russians. You don't fire Generals in the middle of a military operation. 

If Russia is feeling the heat they will escalate. Failure is not an option for the Russians.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498006665328795656

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## Indian Libertarian

1ndy said:


> If I say Ukrainian not allowing them to do so? Man, they are running out of fuel mid ways... so much for being the largest oil producer.


It doesn’t have to do with their oil supply as much as their logistics. They quickly push into territory without securing their rear flank for fuel trucks.


----------



## dBSPL

Trango Towers said:


> P
> 
> Your time for death is written..you may due reading this message without a Nuclear war. Less drama please


Don't be so offended just because we're joking.

If it's for the homeland, death is our wedding. I am not kidding.

By the way, did I mention that I love Putin the most? (Much more than the Chinese friends, which defended the occupation as saying "russia liberating lands" under this title.)

(Putin was our getaway ticket, but his stupid advisers ruined the whole plan.)

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## Clutch

1ndy said:


> If I say Ukrainian not allowing them to do so? Man, they are running out of fuel mid ways... so much for being the largest oil producer.



Poor logistical planning. This is Military planning 101. Surprised if this is a campaign wide issue. Heads will role. You do not send in an armoured infantry without ensuring the supply lines keep supporting the blitzkrieg.


----------



## 1ndy

Indian Libertarian said:


> It doesn’t have to do with their oil supply as much as their logistics. They quickly push into territory without securing their rear flank for fuel trucks.


Superpowers do not give such silly excuses... Superpowers don't run out of fuels when they are invading another nations.


----------



## Indian Libertarian

Clutch said:


> If this is true... A big "if".... Then things are not going good for the Russians. You don't fire Generals in the middle of a military operation.
> 
> If Russia is feeling the heat they will escalate. Failure is not an option for the Russians.


Escalation will be thermobaric bombs and TOS. It will get very bloody very quickly.

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## TheNoob

Clutch said:


> If this is true... A big "if".... Then things are not going good for the Russians. You don't fire Generals in the middle of a military operation.
> 
> If Russia is feeling the heat they will escalate. Failure is not an option for the Russians.



Highly doubt this. 

Maybe AFTER the operations, but right away is a huge if indeed.


----------



## Indian Libertarian

1ndy said:


> Superpowers do not give such silly excuses... Superpowers don't run out of fuels when they are invading another nations.


I don’t disagree with that. It shows the weakness of Russian command. I was just pointing out that being the biggest oil producer and not having logistical issues are not necessarily related.

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## A1Kaid

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498006665328795656



This pretty much confirms what I posted earlier. Russia is using just 1/3 of its invasion force and the first wave of the force is Chechen paramilitary, conscripts, and some conventional forces.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498011665610072064


----------



## Clutch

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498006665328795656



Those reflectors they are sticking on mean that these Chechens are preparing for a night time operations...


----------



## OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ

A few observations...

* Russia has shown it's hand and taken a clean break...
* It is now firmly in a Chinese led camp...
* This War was coming since the overthrow of Poroshenko...
* Ukrainian bluster especially from the current joker made it worse...
* Russian campaign is very restrained, at least in comparison with it's previous conflicts... they're not turning cities into piles of rubble, atleast not yet...
* The invasion force was perhaps inadequate, and my guess was perhaps they'd already either broken through the Ukrainian chain of command, gained assurances or were hoping for wide scale defections/surrenders as the conflict escalated...
* Gaining or more precisely current difficulty in obtaining total air superiority seems to be the last hurdle that will expose all the Ukrainian forces... 
there is no going back from that point on...
* U.N. has been made totally redundant! Eventhough Russia could have used existing pretexts, preludes or precedents... applied in past 30 year's to justify their actions... 
they did not! 
In fact they used Exceptionalism, the American context/pretext for invasion and coercion. A middle finger to existing order and the mandate/charter of U.N. while simultaneously putting themselves as an equal and a super power in the same light as the U.S. ...
* Pakistani premiers visit in this context is very telling... EuroAsia has been opened up for the first time in centuries. Colonial powers(though structures and systems remain) and The Great Game are all past us at this point(that is, Russia feels sufficiently secure in it's underbelly and East)... Pakistan being there on the eve of this invasion, which was totally a Russian prerogative... gives credence to this narrative.

I'd go further in my assumption(s) and add that Taiwan is on the menu... how and when... let's see.

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## Indian Libertarian

Clutch said:


> If this is true... A big "if".... Then things are not going good for the Russians. You don't fire Generals in the middle of a military operation.
> 
> If Russia is feeling the heat they will escalate. Failure is not an option for the Russians.


Seem to be many sources reporting on it 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498007949104533508

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498010374284754957


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498013062254809094


----------



## Meengla

fallschirmjager786 said:


> Russias own internal assessment showed over 50% support for Zelensky even among the Ethnic Russians in the East of the country. Zelensky is not a puppet regime no matter what the Russian propoganda states.
> 
> Russians have targeted Pakistan. The country went to war against them in Afghanistan. Russians have also intervened on the side of India in major conflicts and effectively prevent further US intervention/Support.



Russia aided India in 1971 but that was a lost cause for Pakistan anyway. Russia also setup a Steel Mills in Pakistan. Russia invaded Afghanistan but at that time America helped Pakistan. And today Russia is likely to supply cheap, reliable gas to Pakistan while stabilizing Afghanistan. And today India is 'abstaining' instead of opposing a UNSC resolution against Russia. And America has tried very hard in the last 20 years to make Pakistan accept the Indian dominance at the expense of China--and I'd say that is still America's fervent wish!! 
Nations have only permanent interests. 

I don't know how you could miss all these historic and current events? Oh, well, it is your first day at PDF!

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## Clutch

Indian Libertarian said:


> It doesn’t have to do with their oil supply as much as their logistics. They quickly push into territory without securing their rear flank for fuel trucks.



Very amateur to allow your armour to get so far ahead of fuel supply. Unless they consumed more fuel than they anticipated due to having to reroute due to unexpected resistance...

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## LeGenD

M. Sarmad said:


> So, now you are deleting posts just because you don't agree with them ??
> 
> And FYI, NATO has directly attacked and killed Pakistani soldiers, Russia hasn't .. Remember Salala?
> 
> No matter how much you try to spin it, the fact remains that It's Russia vs US/NATO imperialism.. Civilian casualties are always condemnable no matter what but you seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that it's the puppet regime of Ukraine that brought this on to Ukraine.. Russia alone is not responsible for this



There are plenty of pro-Russian posts in this thread - I haven't removed them.

I removed your post because it represents trolling.

Trolling = _"make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them._*"*

You find views of those Pakistani who are concerned about what is happening to Ukraine as appalling? I reminded you of the fact that Ukraine have contributed to Pakistani defenses on many counts through the years. WE are supposed to respect our allies.

Do not bring off-topic conversations into your exchanges with me. For perspective, what happened in Salala is deplorable *but* Pakistan was able to make Obama administration apologize for this incident. Pakistan have significant economic ties with both USA and Europe in fact. Any word on IMF bailout packages as well? Open your eyes for a change.

And you do not read other posts in this thread or do you? Ukraine is not a conventional military juggernaut (far from it); Ukranians have surprised Russians on the ground nevertheless. Vladimir Putin was of the view that Volodymyr Zelenskyy is a CIA plant and would be an easy picking because Ukranians won't pick up arms at his call - Putin is scratching his head now. Puppet regime of Ukraine, right? You are totally sold to Russian propaganda.

Those who are thanking you should better as well.

@_Nabil_
@Abid123 
@Dual Wielder 
@bbccdd1470 
@Meengla 
@Clutch


----------



## 1ndy

Indian Libertarian said:


> I don’t disagree with that. It shows the weakness of Russian command. I was just pointing out that being the biggest oil producer and not having logistical issues are not necessarily related.


Moral of the story is don't go to war if you don't have DOLLARS.

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## Falcon29

*Report about Russian general being fired is fake:*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498002896905986054


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498015342978809860

Reactions: Like Like:
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1 | Wow Wow:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498003637187932160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498004657926512641

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Joe Shearer

Shah_Deu said:


> and your aatmanirbharta modi couldn't come up with a decent online platform so you guys have to lurk here!


Some Indians do, not others. I am on seven fora concurrently. I have close friends here, and keep in touch.


jamahir said:


> Surprising. Any article or vid of that meet ?
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, our own Modi ji in China :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Modi Spells Strength as 'STREANH' 😂😂 | Mind-blowing !! 😂😂🤣🤣😱😱🙊🙊🙈 PM Narendra Modi spells 'Strength' as 'S T R E A N H' in front of Chinese delegation. May be that's how they do in "Entire... | By Gaurav Pandhi | Facebook
> 
> 
> 526K views, 1.9K likes, 29 loves, 2.4K comments, 10K shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Gaurav Pandhi: Mind-blowing !! 😂😂🤣🤣😱😱🙊🙊🙈 PM Narendra Modi spells 'Strength' as 'S T R E A N H' in front of...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.facebook.com





Indian Libertarian said:


> Seem to be many sources reporting on it
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498007949104533508


Probably due to the High Command feeling irritated that he was making it look so easy.

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## Clutch

Indian Libertarian said:


> Seem to be many sources reporting on it
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498007949104533508



Then that means the Russian plans are falling apart... Perhaps this is an opportunity to bring the Russians to the negotiation table and come to a political solution and save the world form a global conflict.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498015796559335426

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498015797926453254

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498015908052312070


----------



## Indian Libertarian

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498015342978809860


Did Switzerland ever sanction the Nazis?

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## dBSPL

A1Kaid said:


> This pretty much confirms what I posted earlier. Russia is using just 1/3 of its invasion force and the first wave of the force is Chechen paramilitary, conscripts, and some conventional forces.


The operation is very scattered as it covers the whole east and north of the country. There are too many hotspots. Troops need to be dispatched to too many locations. As these troops advance through Ukraine, logistics becomes more difficult.

Soldiers are not bionic robots. They get tired, both physically and mentally. Troops have to move in a rotation. This is not a pitched battle, almost all of the conflicts are now in residental areas. The roads are full of traps, ISR and armed tactical drones are a big threat to convoys.

If Russia wants to act faster than this, it has two options; The first is to advance by destroying the settlements to a large extent. The second is to move forward with terrible losses.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498016186944139266

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498014741536641029


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497881565715525636

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Clutch

Indian Libertarian said:


> Did Switzerland ever sanction the Nazis?



The Swiss have always played both sides... For their gold. The most devious of the lot.

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## Falcon29

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498014741536641029

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498007786797645832


----------



## The SC

dBSPL said:


> The operation is very scattered as it covers the whole east and north of the country. There are too many hotspots. Troops need to be dispatched to too many locations. As these troops advance through Ukraine, logistics becomes more difficult.
> 
> Soldiers are not bionic robots. They get tired, both physically and mentally. Troops have to move in a rotation. This is not a pitched battle, almost all of the conflicts are now in residental areas. The roads are full of traps, ISR and armed tactical drones are a big threat to convoys.
> 
> If Russia wants to act faster than this, it has two options; The first is to advance by destroying the settlements to a large extent. The second is to move forward with terrible losses.



These might be just bridgeheads established..

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## NotSure

Trango Towers said:


> They only sent in limited troops and very little bombing of infrastructure. I mean no electricty cuts no Internet cuts no mobile phone cuts.
> Remember Iraq they even hit water purification plants the bastards


The russian Air force is nearly unused and this is a huge mistake. They have something like ~500 x Su-25, Su-27, Su-30, Su-34 and Su-35 combined. All are capable of using PGMs, antiradiation missiles inluded. Then they have Tu-22M3 and Tu-160.

If only the half of them would fly 4 sorties a day, it would make >1000 Sorties per day with few tons per sortie. Instead they simply don't use almost all of these strike aircraft.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497702745024966661

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## Indian Libertarian

NotSure said:


> The russian Air force is nearly unused and this is a huge mistake. They have something like ~500 x Su-25, Su-27, Su-30, Su-34 and Su-35 combined. All are capable of using PGMs, antiradiation missiles inluded. Then they have Tu-22M3 and Tu-160.
> 
> If only the half of them would fly 4 sorties a day, it would make >1000 Sorties per day with few tons per sortie. Instead they simply don't use almost all of these strike aircraft.


Have they even establish air superiority, though? Ukraine still has a bunch of close-mid range SAMs and possibly even fighters. I really don’t know how these weren’t destroyed in the first day. Complete incompetent


----------



## jhungary

Falcon29 said:


> I think it depends on the objective. Are they leading another attack force or they are the attack force?


2000 soldier is very, extreme small unit, that's less than half a brigade.

You probably need at least a full brigade (4500 men) or a full division to secure an objective of 500,000 residence.

If they really march that 2,000 troop into the city, they are going to be slaughter, IIRC Mariupol have up to 20,000 troop defending...

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498018525184761867


----------



## jamal18

waz said:


> The thing is they needed the mobile infantry with them i.e. mass APC's and IFV's, but they seem to be strangely absent with the tanks.


By definition, infantry is scarce in an armoured unit. The role of such infantry there is, is for the ' close support of armour'.

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## _Nabil_

Another Ukrainian Racism act


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497891562507980805

Africain Students :
"Watch how they threaten to shoot us, we are currently on the border between Ukraine and Poland and some have been sleeping here for two days in this cold weather!"

Reactions: Like Like:
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## 1ndy

NotSure said:


> The russian Air force is nearly unused and this is a huge mistake. They have something like ~500 x Su-25, Su-27, Su-30, Su-34 and Su-35 combined. All are capable of using PGMs, antiradiation missiles inluded. Then they have Tu-22M3 and Tu-160.
> 
> If only the half of them would fly 4 sorties a day, it would make >1000 Sorties per day with few tons per sortie. Instead they simply don't use almost all of these strike aircraft.


They are getting hit by MANPADS whenever they try to fly over Ukraine... They surely have many many aircrafts but no dollars to maintain them in battle ready condition.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## gambit

LeGenD said:


> Civilian-purpose infrastructure of Iraq was working as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can clearly see lights and vehicles moving on roads.
> 
> Russia have bombed Ukraine very heavily by now. Just wait for statistics to emerge. Hundreds of TBMs have been used, let alone other types of munitions. People think what is happening in Ukraine is a joke?


Next...Russia supporters are going to say that Poutine ordered Russian troops to be sacrificial, in other words Russian troops have been killing each other, to minimize civilian deaths and that also explained the unexpected Russian troops deaths.

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## Zibago

Ali_Baba said:


> How @ Daniel808 consciousness can reason and support an invading army


Yes its always evil to support an invading army of a free country


----------



## Ali_Baba

Indian Libertarian said:


> Seem to be many sources reporting on it
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498007949104533508



Not been reported on mainstream media yet - so I would take with a pinch of salt - as this news would be massive if true.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498012554874036227


----------



## Indian Libertarian

Did Putin not inform his field commanders about the invasion until only like an hour before? Those are the sort of vibes I’m getting. The captured soldiers all talk that they were doing training exercises and they were pushed into combat suddenly. That could be a standard response in interrogations, but idk seems like something’s off…


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497846123154784260


----------



## Ali_Baba

Falcon29 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498014741536641029



A drone strike of that convoy is the need of the hour for sure.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498021350165909507

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498021013262589960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498019558958923778

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498020656021225484

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## dbc

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498015342978809860



Putin and his oligarchs just got downgraded to junk status ...ouch! 
This is a pretty risky move by Switzerland considering despots all around the world park their ill gotten gains in Swiss banks.

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## 1ndy

Indian Libertarian said:


> Did Putin not inform his field commanders about the invasion until only like an hour before? Those are the sort of vibes I’m getting. The captured soldiers all talk that they were doing training exercises and they were pushed into combat suddenly. That could be a standard response in interrogations, but idk seems like something’s off…


This is what happen when governments doesn’t allow its people to ask questions. e.g. anyone questioning government in India become anti national within seconds and asked to go to Pakistan.


----------



## The SC

The Russian bombardment on the Kherson front line continues uninterrupted.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498018940219494413


----------



## NotSure

1ndy said:


> They are getting hit by MANPADS whenever they try to fly over Ukraine... They surely have many many aircrafts but no dollars to maintain them in battle ready condition.


Ok, Mr. Expert. Thx.


----------



## Ali_Baba

*"Russian military gains in Ukraine will not be recognised, says G7*
Russian military gains in Ukraine achieved through its ongoing campaign will not be recognised, foreign ministers from the G7 club of wealthy nations said in a joint statement on Sunday.
"Ministers underlined that any change of status achieved by the Russian act of aggression will not be recognised. Ministers agreed to coordinate closely to ensure a broad and strong international condemnation of Russia's unjustifiable behaviour," the statement said."










Three-mile column of Russian troops and tanks 'moving towards Kyiv'


A three-mile column of Russian troops and tanks have been seen "moving towards Kyiv" in satellite imagery taken on Sunday.




www.telegraph.co.uk





Basically stop this now because you are going to have to hand it all back if you want the sanctions lifted.


----------



## Invicta

Indian Libertarian said:


> Breaking News
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498013700543983619
> 
> Having yes men in a war assures failure. How can you direct troops if you’re not being given the true story?


Whats is "Grenades - 49"?


----------



## NotSure

Trango Towers said:


> Racist white bastatds


"Ukrainian fascist are Kremlin propaganda".

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## Zibago

Indian Libertarian said:


> Breaking News
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498013700543983619
> 
> Having yes men in a war assures failure. How can you direct troops if you’re not being given the true story?


That figure is way off 
This reminds me of Panjshir propaganda

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## Primus

Indian Libertarian said:


> Breaking News
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498013700543983619
> 
> Having yes men in a war assures failure. How can you direct troops if you’re not being given the true story?


Those are ALL ukrainian claims

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## INS_Vikrant

_Nabil_ said:


> Another Ukrainian Racism act
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497891562507980805
> 
> Africain Students :
> "Watch how they threaten to shoot us, we are currently on the border between Ukraine and Poland and some have been sleeping here for two days in this cold weather!"




The same is reported by Indian students at Poland border. Seems they want to hold foreign nationals as hostages. This is the free and democratic country NATO claims to be protecting lol. Hope Russia bombs them to smithereens.

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## Ali_Baba

Invicta said:


> Whats is "Grenades - 49"?



MLRS ?

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## Trango Towers

NotSure said:


> "Ukrainian fascist are Kremlin propaganda".


Don't be foolish...Ukraine has a significant neo nazis as does Russia and Poland etc

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498022885524488204

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498022511908425735

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498023120585768973

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498020921591824386


----------



## Indian Libertarian

Invicta said:


> Whats is "Grenades - 49"?


Not sure, could be translation error.

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## _Nabil_

Indian Libertarian said:


> Breaking News
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498013700543983619
> 
> Having yes men in a war assures failure. How can you direct troops if you’re not being given the true story?


Fake fake fake 
Just delete it

The Ministry of Defense reported on Russian losses during a special military operation
The official representative of the Ministry of Defense, Major General Igor Konashenkov, said that "the losses of the Russian Armed Forces are many times less than the number of nationalists killed"

© Ministry of Defense of Russia
Read TASS at
Yandex.News
Яндекс.Зен
...
Show hidden links
MOSCOW, 27 February. /TASS/. There are dead and wounded among the Russian servicemen who are involved in a special military operation. This was announced to journalists on Sunday by the official representative of the Russian Defense Ministry, Major General Igor Konashenkov.

ON THIS TOPIC
Military operation in Ukraine. Online
Military operation in Ukraine.
"Since the beginning of the special military operation, the Russian armed forces have hit 1,067 military infrastructure facilities in Ukraine," he said.

According to Konashenkov, 27 command posts and communication centers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, 38 anti-aircraft missile systems of air defense: S-300, Buk M-1 and Osa, as well as 56 radar stations were liquidated. "Today alone, seven anti-aircraft missile systems have been destroyed, including one S-300 near the city of Kramatorsk. Three Bayraktar TB-2 attack unmanned aerial vehicles have been shot down in the suburbs of Chernigov," the general said.

According to him, since the beginning of the operation, 254 tanks and other armored vehicles, 31 aircraft on the ground, 46 multiple rocket launchers, 103 field artillery and mortars, 164 units of special military vehicles have been destroyed.

According to him, the leaders of the Kiev regime will inevitably bear severe responsibility. "All faces, voices, phones, their coordinates, IP addresses, as well as the correspondence of all Ukrainian Nazis involved in the abuse of our comrades are recorded and identified. This also applies to the leaders of the Kiev regime and their executors who directly call for abuse of Russian military personnel in violation of the convention on the treatment of prisoners of war. All of you will be found and will inevitably bear severe responsibility," he said.

According to the official representative of the Ministry of Defense, the losses of the Russian Armed Forces are many times less than the number of killed nationalists. "But our losses are many times less than those killed by the nationalists. And the losses among the Ukrainian armed forces," Konashenkov said.

Konashenkov also said that the grouping of LPR troops had successfully advanced another 4 km deep into the enemy’s defenses. "The grouping of troops of the Luhansk People's Republic, with fire support from the Armed Forces (AF) of the Russian Federation, successfully advanced deep into the enemy's defenses for another 4 km. The units of the Donetsk People's Republic, having overcome the resistance of nationalist units, advanced another 6 kilometers. The settlements of Nizhne, Granitnoye and Gnutovo were liberated ", - he said.

According to him, since the beginning of the special military operation, which began on February 24, the Russian Armed Forces have hit 1,067 objects of the military infrastructure of Ukraine.

On February 24, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a special military operation in Ukraine in response to the appeal of the leaders of the Donbass republics for help. He stressed that Moscow's plans do not include the occupation of Ukrainian territories, the goal is the demilitarization and denazification of the country. As stated in the Russian Defense Ministry, the Russian military does not strike at cities, but disable only the military infrastructure, so nothing threatens

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## NotSure

Indian Libertarian said:


> Breaking News
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498013700543983619
> 
> Having yes men in a war assures failure. How can you direct troops if you’re not being given the true story?


Fake news? Clikc on the link, this is the real text and it is in russian:



> МОСКВА, 27 февраля. /ТАСС/. Погибшие и раненые есть среди военнослужащих РФ, которые задействованы в специальной военной операции. Об этом сообщил в воскресенье журналистам официальный представитель Минобороны РФ генерал-майор Игорь Конашенков.
> На эту тему
> Военная операция на Украине. Онлайн
> 
> "Российскими вооруженными силами с начала специальной военной операции поражены 1 067 объектов военной инфраструктуры Украины", - сказал он.
> Как уточнил Конашенков, ликвидированы 27 пунктов управления и узлов связи Вооруженных сил Украины, 38 зенитных ракетных комплексов противовоздушной обороны: С-300, "Бук М-1" и "Оса", а также 56 радиолокационных станций. "Только сегодня уничтожены семь зенитных ракетных комплексов, в том числе один С-300 в районе города Краматорск. Сбито 3 ударных беспилотных летательных аппарата "Байрактар ТБ-2" в пригородах Чернигова", - отметил генерал.
> По его словам, также с начала операции уничтожены 254 танка и других бронемашин, 31 самолет на земле, 46 реактивных систем залпового огня, 103 орудия полевой артиллерии и минометов, 164 единицы специальной военной автомобильной техники.
> 
> По его словам, руководители киевского режима неминуемо понесут суровую ответственность. "Фиксируются и идентифицируются все лица, голоса, телефоны, их координаты, IP-адреса, а также переписка всех украинских нацистов, причастных к издевательствам над нашими товарищами. Также это касается руководителей киевского режима и их исполнителей, прямо призывающих к издевательствам над российскими военнослужащими в нарушение конвенции по обращению с военнопленными. Все вы будете найдены и неминуемо понесете суровую ответственность", - сказал он.
> По словам официального представителя Минобороны, потери ВС России многократно меньше числа уничтоженных националистов. "Но наши потери многократно меньше уничтоженных националистов. И потерь среди военнослужащих украинских вооруженных сил", - сказал Конашенков.
> Также Конашенков сообщил, что группировка войск ЛНР успешно продвинулась вглубь обороны противника еще на 4 км. "Группировка войск Луганской Народной Республики при огневой поддержке Вооруженных сил (ВС) Российской Федерации успешно продвинулась вглубь обороны противника еще на 4 км. Подразделения Донецкой Народной Республики, преодолев сопротивление националистических подразделений, продвинулись еще на 6 километров. Освобождены населенные пункты Нижнее, Гранитное и Гнутово", - сказал он.
> По его словам, российские ВС с начала специальной военной операции, начавшейся 24 февраля, поразили 1 067 объектов военной инфраструктуры Украины.
> Президент России Владимир Путин 24 февраля объявил о проведении специальной военной операции на Украине в ответ на обращение руководителей республик Донбасса о помощи. Он подчеркнул, что в планы Москвы не входит оккупация украинских территорий, целью является демилитаризация и денацификация страны. Как заявили в Минобороны РФ, российские военные не наносят удары по городам, а выводят из строя только военную инфраструктуру, поэтому гражданскому населению ничего не угрожает.

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## fallschirmjager786

INS_Vikramaditya said:


> The same is reported by Indian students at Poland border. Seems they want to hold foreign nationals as hostages. This is the free and democratic country NATO claims to be protecting lol. Hope Russia bombs them to smithereens.



Do the Indian students have travel documents to Poland? It's up to the Indian government to secure visas and entry permits. Poland is open to Ukrainians, not Indians and Africans. Besides, their allies of Russia, tell them to walk up to the Russians surrounding Ukraine and they will be given a VIP exit through Belarus and moscow

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Cryptic_Mafia

Zibago said:


> That figure is way off
> This reminds me of Panjshir propaganda


ukr is the new ANA wait and this sham of a army will fall!

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498023838076084231


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## Trango Towers

Indian Libertarian said:


> Breaking News
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498013700543983619
> 
> Having yes men in a war assures failure. How can you direct troops if you’re not being given the true story?


Yet hardly any pictures. Strange don't you think?

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## NotSure

Indian Libertarian said:


> Not sure, could be translation error.


No, fake news pulled out of the *** and our liberterian indian acted as a tool to spread it.

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## Indian Libertarian

_Nabil_ said:


> Fake fake fake
> Just delete it
> 
> The Ministry of Defense reported on Russian losses during a special military operation
> The official representative of the Ministry of Defense, Major General Igor Konashenkov, said that "the losses of the Russian Armed Forces are many times less than the number of nationalists killed"
> 
> © Ministry of Defense of Russia
> Read TASS at
> Yandex.News
> Яндекс.Зен
> ...
> Show hidden links
> MOSCOW, 27 February. /TASS/. There are dead and wounded among the Russian servicemen who are involved in a special military operation. This was announced to journalists on Sunday by the official representative of the Russian Defense Ministry, Major General Igor Konashenkov.
> 
> ON THIS TOPIC
> Military operation in Ukraine. Online
> Military operation in Ukraine.
> "Since the beginning of the special military operation, the Russian armed forces have hit 1,067 military infrastructure facilities in Ukraine," he said.
> 
> According to Konashenkov, 27 command posts and communication centers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, 38 anti-aircraft missile systems of air defense: S-300, Buk M-1 and Osa, as well as 56 radar stations were liquidated. "Today alone, seven anti-aircraft missile systems have been destroyed, including one S-300 near the city of Kramatorsk. Three Bayraktar TB-2 attack unmanned aerial vehicles have been shot down in the suburbs of Chernigov," the general said.
> 
> According to him, since the beginning of the operation, 254 tanks and other armored vehicles, 31 aircraft on the ground, 46 multiple rocket launchers, 103 field artillery and mortars, 164 units of special military vehicles have been destroyed.
> 
> According to him, the leaders of the Kiev regime will inevitably bear severe responsibility. "All faces, voices, phones, their coordinates, IP addresses, as well as the correspondence of all Ukrainian Nazis involved in the abuse of our comrades are recorded and identified. This also applies to the leaders of the Kiev regime and their executors who directly call for abuse of Russian military personnel in violation of the convention on the treatment of prisoners of war. All of you will be found and will inevitably bear severe responsibility," he said.
> 
> According to the official representative of the Ministry of Defense, the losses of the Russian Armed Forces are many times less than the number of killed nationalists. "But our losses are many times less than those killed by the nationalists. And the losses among the Ukrainian armed forces," Konashenkov said.
> 
> Konashenkov also said that the grouping of LPR troops had successfully advanced another 4 km deep into the enemy’s defenses. "The grouping of troops of the Luhansk People's Republic, with fire support from the Armed Forces (AF) of the Russian Federation, successfully advanced deep into the enemy's defenses for another 4 km. The units of the Donetsk People's Republic, having overcome the resistance of nationalist units, advanced another 6 kilometers. The settlements of Nizhne, Granitnoye and Gnutovo were liberated ", - he said.
> 
> According to him, since the beginning of the special military operation, which began on February 24, the Russian Armed Forces have hit 1,067 objects of the military infrastructure of Ukraine.
> 
> On February 24, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a special military operation in Ukraine in response to the appeal of the leaders of the Donbass republics for help. He stressed that Moscow's plans do not include the occupation of Ukrainian territories, the goal is the demilitarization and denazification of the country. As stated in the Russian Defense Ministry, the Russian military does not strike at cities, but disable only the military infrastructure, so nothing threatens


Yeah you’re probably right, I heard from some others that the website could’ve been hacked.

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## 1ndy

fallschirmjager786 said:


> Do the Indian students have travel documents to Poland? It's up to the Indian government to secure visas and entry permits. Poland is open to Ukrainians, not Indians and Africans. Besides, their allies of Russia, tell them to walk up to the Russians surrounding Ukraine and they will be given a VIP exit through Belarus and moscow


Yes, Indian students should walk towards Russia not evil Europe.

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## Invicta

Ukraine invasion: Russian President Vladimir Putin orders military command to put nuclear deterrent forces on high alert


The Russian leader cited aggressive statements by NATO leaders and severe economic sanctions against Moscow. UK defence secretary Ben Wallace describes his comments as "a big attempt to distract away from his troubles in Ukraine" by reminding the world Russia has nuclear capability.




news.sky.com





Is this his last roll of the dice?


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## Iñigo

Please

...


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## Indian Libertarian

1ndy said:


> Yes, Indian students should walk towards Russia not evil Europe.


I don’t think it’s safe to walk into war zone. They should cross into western Belarus. It’s relatively peaceful there.



Invicta said:


> Ukraine invasion: Russian President Vladimir Putin orders military command to put nuclear deterrent forces on high alert
> 
> 
> The Russian leader cited aggressive statements by NATO leaders and severe economic sanctions against Moscow. UK defence secretary Ben Wallace describes his comments as "a big attempt to distract away from his troubles in Ukraine" by reminding the world Russia has nuclear capability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.sky.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this his last roll of the dice?


I don’t know, I hope he’s just posturing against NATO

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498021662935113734

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498023992191561738

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498023555975450626

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## Invicta

Indian Libertarian said:


> I don’t think it’s safe to walk into war zone. They should cross into western Belarus. It’s relatively peaceful there.
> 
> 
> I don’t know, I hope he’s just posturing against NATO


Not a good thing to posture with - given the circumstances. With everything seemingly going in the favor of Russian side this shouts of desperation.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497953304378327043

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## 1ndy

Indian Libertarian said:


> I don’t think it’s safe to walk into war zone. They should cross into western Belarus. It’s relatively peaceful there.
> 
> 
> I don’t know, I hope he’s just posturing against NATO


Can't Modi ji just land his planes directly in Ukraine? I think whole of Ukraine is in Russian control... All airports are under the control of Chechans and Spetnaz...


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## The SC

Ukrainian civilians seize Russian BTR-80 and they bring them to their farms


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498021177289150466

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498021681784262667

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## LeGenD

Dariush the Great said:


> Where are the heavy bombardments on Kiev, the capital city? No city in Ukraine has been bombarded properly by the Russians. It is a joke, even one missile slamming against a random building in Kiev will make huge breaking news headlines, this will not happen if there is a heavy bombing campaign by the Russians.
> 
> 
> Don't bet on it. Putin is pro Israel.











Ukraine crisis: Families sleep in subway stations as Russian bombs fall


Vladimir Putin unleashed a second night of bombing on Ukraine, as Ukraine tried to fend off Russian forces




news.yahoo.com













Ukraine slams ‘horrific’ strikes on Kyiv amid Russian advance


Blasts are heard as Ukraine’s capital comes under increasing threat from invading Russian forces.




www.aljazeera.com













Gunfire and missile strikes rock Kyiv as Russian troops storm Ukraine capital


Central Kyiv is in flames from shelling and gunfire has been heard in the government area as Russian troops close in but they are facing fierce resistance with the Ukraine president saying "we will not put down weapons"




www.mirror.co.uk





Kyiv is a big city and will not fall easily if citizens decide to stand their ground there.


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## Invicta

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498021662935113734
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498023992191561738
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498023555975450626


Our submarines can do the same, Putin has gone full Tonto indeed.

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## NotSure

Trango Towers said:


> Don't be foolish...Ukraine has a significant neo nazis as does Russia and Poland etc


That was my sarcasm. The west fed them with Billions and Billions over the last 30 Years, so a very big proportion are real fascist there. Especially in the western part around Lvov up to Kiev. And they are shelling east ukraine now since 8 years.

It is no suprise at all, how they treat people. Even their own ukrainian People in Kiev are executed for being outside on the street:


smart7788 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497920286041071616

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## Indian Libertarian

Invicta said:


> Not a good thing to posture with - given the circumstances. With everything seemingly going in the favor of Russian side this shouts of desperation.


I agree that it’s desperation but things are not going in favor of Russia. They’re being pushed deep into a hole with no off-ramps now.

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## jamal18

fallschirmjager786 said:


> Do the Indian students have travel documents to Poland? It's up to the Indian government to secure visas and entry permits. Poland is open to Ukrainians, not Indians and Africans. Besides, their allies of Russia, tell them to walk up to the Russians surrounding Ukraine and they will be given a VIP exit through Belarus and moscow


Do the Ukrainians?

I trust the Polish border guard won't push them into the forests of Belarus like they did the other war refugees.

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## Basel

Iron Shrappenel said:


> If I were PA.. I would be taking notes.... Newer anti tank weapons seem pivotal in modern warfare .. considering lack if aps on Indian armored tanks ... Top attack missiles it is...
> Imagine 1-2 launchers with 4 rounds at platoon level....
> APS for current inventory of leading tanks *including * Al-Zarrars should be top priority.....
> Instead of developing Al-Khalid 2 we should invest in anti tank missiles....
> We can work on an urban up armor kit for Al-Khalids with Turkey in line with Altay... And purchase some Altays specifically with Urban warfare in mind....



PA should be taking notes for overall operation done by both sides, specially how Russia used Helicopters, MBRLs, SRBMs etc.



Iron Shrappenel said:


> If I were PA.. I would be taking notes.... Newer anti tank weapons seem pivotal in modern warfare .. considering lack if aps on Indian armored tanks ... Top attack missiles it is...
> Imagine 1-2 launchers with 4 rounds at platoon level....
> APS for current inventory of leading tanks *including * Al-Zarrars should be top priority.....
> Instead of developing Al-Khalid 2 we should invest in anti tank missiles....
> We can work on an urban up armor kit for Al-Khalids with Turkey in line with Altay... And purchase some Altays specifically with Urban warfare in mind....



PA should be taking notes for overall operation done by both sides, specially how Russia used Helicopters, MBRLs, SRBMs etc.


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## INS_Vikrant

1ndy said:


> Yes, Indian students should walk towards Russia not evil Europe.



Going into the front line? Are you nuts?

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## Indian Libertarian

Invicta said:


> Not a good thing to posture with - given the circumstances. With everything seemingly going in the favor of Russian side this shouts of desperation.


I agree that it’s desperation but things are not going in favor of Russia. They’re being pushed deep into a hole with no off-ramps now.


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## dBSPL

On this forum, 95% of people were making fun of the British warmongering and provocation of Russia. By the end of the fifth day we understand a little better why the US and Britain pushed Russia into a full-scale invasion war.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498025887140581377

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498023476803915785

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498023537600344072

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## gambit

jhungary said:


> I hope Germany change the stance after this war and see that the security future is in Germany hand not anyone else.


My take on this...And applies to anyone, not just Germany...

The closer you are to a potential war adversary, the more you should be ready to display the Big Stick. And I believe post Cold War western Europe have been seduced by wealth, granted generated by themselves, into believing that disputes can be resolved by small sticks. The US is strong enough to stand on its own and maybe NATO is dated. But if not NATO, or even do away with NATO, a mutual defense alliance in the mold of NATO is inevitable. The argument that Poutine was somehow 'pushed' into this war because all he wanted is a neutral Ukraine is ludicrous. There is no such thing as neutrality and the idea of a 'legal' neutral status is a soothing fiction. A sugar pill that everyone is willing to take even though they know it is useless. I said in this thread earlier that there are two types of club membership: explicit and implicit. Those who swallowed that sugar pill of legal neutrality are implicit NATO members and Poutine knows it.

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## Signalian

CrazyZ said:


> I wouldn't expect too much tank Vs tank......both sides have similar tank qualities (OplotvT90, Bulat vs t-t72). The key observation here for Pakistani military circles will be the effectiveness of Javelin type ATGM's. IMO, PA should start thinking about acquiring HJ-12's in large quantities.


Strike Corps of both countries have tanks as offensive weapons and depend on tanks to enter enemy territory, not ATGMs.


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## A1Kaid

The Russia-Ukraine negotiations are just a sham. Russia will make unacceptable demands to Ukrainians and the meeting will result in nothing. It will however give Russia a narrative that it attempted to resolve the problems peacefully and it was rejected by Ukraine. In just a few days Russia will sweep in with the rest of its 2/3 invasion force and have most of Ukraine pacified.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Signalian

gambit said:


> My take on this...And applies to anyone, not just Germany...
> 
> The closer you are to a potential war adversary, the more you should be ready to display the Big Stick. And I believe post Cold War western Europe have been seduced by wealth, granted generated by themselves, into believing that disputes can be resolved by small sticks. The US is strong enough to stand on its own and maybe NATO is dated. But if not NATO, or even do away with NATO, a mutual defense alliance in the mold of NATO is inevitable. The argument that Poutine was somehow 'pushed' into this war because all he wanted is a neutral Ukraine is ludicrous. There is no such thing as neutrality and the idea of a 'legal' neutral status is a soothing fiction. A sugar pill that everyone is willing to take even though they know it is useless. I said in this thread earlier that there are two types of club membership: explicit and implicit. Those who swallowed that sugar pill of legal neutrality are implicit NATO members and Poutine knows it.


When League of Nations failed in preventing WW2, then UN should be disbanded too, as it is unable to prevent wars from ‘45 till now.

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## Spetsnaz.frog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498026357762281472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498024649338273792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498013189648302081


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## Trango Towers

A1Kaid said:


> The Russia-Ukraine negotiations are just a sham. Russia will make unacceptable demands to Ukrainians and the meeting will result in nothing. It will however give Russia a narrative that it attempted to resolve the problems peacefully and it was rejected by Ukraine. In just a few days Russia will sweep in with the rest of its 2/3 invasion force and have most of Ukraine pacified.


I don't think so. 

I think main demand is drop NATO membership


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## _Nabil_

1ndy said:


> Yes, Indian students should walk towards Russia not evil Europe.


Confirmed reports of Indians, Moroccan, Algerian, African,... students being bullied and refused access to trains and forbidden to leave the frontiers, by Ukrainian civils and Ukrainians forces.

Ukraine is responsible of their safety as they are legally resident there.

Your words are more condemnable than the racist acts of Ukrainians.

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## Titanium100

dBSPL said:


> On this forum, 95% of people were making fun of the British warmongering and provocation of Russia. By the end of the fifth day we understand a little better why the US and Britain pushed Russia into a full-scale invasion war.



They didn't push Russia into war but they wanted to deter Russia from starting one by putting alot of pressure on it and playing some wicked media mindgames but Russia didn't fall for that and rejected them by going ahead with an invasion..

People don't realize how much of a big Fuk you to the west that was...

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## fallschirmjager786

A1Kaid said:


> The Russia-Ukraine negotiations are just a sham. Russia will make unacceptable demands to Ukrainians and the meeting will result in nothing. It will however give Russia a narrative that it attempted to resolve the problems peacefully and it was rejected by Ukraine. In just a few days Russia will sweep in with the rest of its 2/3 invasion force and have most of Ukraine pacified.



Russian media already accidentally posted an article proclaiming victory and deleted it. Read the translation through Google translate. Pretty hilarious given ground realities. Goes to show they expected everything to be over by the end of the weekend.









Наступление России и нового мира


Новый мир рождается на наших глазах. Военная операция России на Украине открыла новую эпоху — причем сразу в трех измерениях. И конечно, в четвертом,... РИА Новости, 26.02.2022




web.archive.org


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## khansaheeb

vizier said:


> Some news suggest that Turkey is about to apply Montreux convention article 19 limiting Russian ships and only the ships belonging to Russian bases would enter the straits. This move has risks within itself. This can be a right move or not the risks should be calculated. Russia may not attack directly to a nato country but for example putin will try to influence nearby countries for example Greece to pressure Turkey which are both nato members. Everyone should be careful and aim to end the conflict as soon as possible in my opinion this should be the main target and at the same time we all should block this fire spread to somewhere else igniting a worldwide conflict.


I don't think Turkey would stick it's neck out, doesn't make sense to declare war against Russia indirectly. A multipolar world is in Turkey's interest and undermining Russia will create a new chaos world order from which Turkey will not be immune. NATO has no affinity for present day Turkey and it is only a matter of time before they are kicked out of NATO and become a frontline enemy state.

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## 1ndy

_Nabil_ said:


> Confirmed reports of Indians, Moroccan, Algerian, African,... students being bullied and refused access to trains and forbidden to leave the frontiers, by Ukrainian civils and Ukrainians forces.
> 
> Ukraine is responsible of their safety as they are legally resident there.
> 
> Your words are more condemnable than the racist acts of Ukrainians.


You're forgetting Pakistani students...


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## CrazyZ

Signalian said:


> Strike Corps of both countries have tanks as offensive weapons and depend on tanks to enter enemy territory, not ATGMs.


I'm looking from the defensive perspective. Drones and infantry with latest gen ATGM's are taking a nasty toll on upgraded T-72's/T-90's. Pakistan will face similar threats and should be taking notes.

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## QWECXZ

NotSure said:


> The russian Air force is nearly unused and this is a huge mistake. They have something like ~500 x Su-25, Su-27, Su-30, Su-34 and Su-35 combined. All are capable of using PGMs, antiradiation missiles inluded. Then they have Tu-22M3 and Tu-160.
> 
> If only the half of them would fly 4 sorties a day, it would make >1000 Sorties per day with few tons per sortie. Instead they simply don't use almost all of these strike aircraft.


I guess the Russian Air Force will be used more extensively when they have suppressed Ukraine's air defense.
This is just the 4th day of the war. A lot can happen in the coming days.

Ukraine is almost 40% larger than Iraq and unlike Iraq, it is supported by all Western countries and their allies. It took the US coalition forces 3 weeks to conquer Baghdad. I can ensure you that if Ukraine does not negotiate with Russia and give in to most of Putin's demands, this war will be won by the Russians in less than a month. Heck, they are on the verge of invading Kiev as we speak and the city may fall in 48 hours or so.

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## INS_Vikrant

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498023537600344072



That's one marvelous piece of Aeronautical Engineering lost

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## fallschirmjager786

CrazyZ said:


> I'm looking from the defensive perspective. Drones and infantry with latest gen ATGM's are taking a nasty toll on upgraded T-72's/T-90's. Pakistan will face similar threats and should be taking notes.


Should be looked at closely for sure. I'm sure academics will be analysing everything.


----------



## Basel

Iron Shrappenel said:


> If I were PA.. I would be taking notes.... Newer anti tank weapons seem pivotal in modern warfare .. considering lack if aps on Indian armored tanks ... Top attack missiles it is...
> Imagine 1-2 launchers with 4 rounds at platoon level....
> APS for current inventory of leading tanks *including * Al-Zarrars should be top priority.....
> Instead of developing Al-Khalid 2 we should invest in anti tank missiles....
> We can work on an urban up armor kit for Al-Khalids with Turkey in line with Altay... And purchase some Altays specifically with Urban warfare in mind....



PA should be taking notes for overall operation done by both sides, specially how Russia used Helicopters, MBRLs, SRBMs etc.

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## CrazyZ

khansaheeb said:


> What nonsense , she is s
> 
> I don't think Turkey would stick it's neck out, doesn't make sense to declare war against Russia indirectly. A multipolar world is in Turkey's interest and undermining Russia will create a new chaos world order from which Turkey will not be immune. NATO has no affinity for present day Turkey and it is only a matter of time before they are kicked out of NATO and become a frontline enemy state.


France, Greece and USA have treated Turkey poorly over the last decade. Why should Turkey stick its neck out for them. Turkey should do what it must for NATO and reinforce ties with Germany but that's it.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498029493033881601

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498030175535222796


----------



## The SC

Satellite images spotted a huge Russian convoy 5 km long heading towards the capital, Kiev..

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## gambit

Signalian said:


> When League of Nations failed in preventing WW2, then UN should be disbanded too, as it is unable to prevent wars from ‘45 till now.


I have long advocated US withdrawal from the UN. All the way back to 2009 when I was invited here.

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## dBSPL

*!!!*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498029624273825792

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## khansaheeb

Clutch said:


> So she is officially starting a British Jihad?.... It's all good and kosher (halal) now????


The resistance in Ukraine is going so well that the UK gov is asking for British mercenaries to fight in outright defiance of international law. I wonder if she has own kids she would like to volunteer to be maimed or killed in a war that is nothing to do with them.

The UK Minister is in breach of UK terrorism law and could well be arrested:-

Titled 'Encouragement of terrorism', section 1 criminalises the publication of statements that are likely to be understood by a reasonable person as encouraging some or all of the members of the public to whom the statement is published to commit, prepare or instigate acts of terrorism.Oct 3, 2020

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## PaklovesTurkiye

Been observing this thread for *days*. Here's what* I think*.

1. Russia is a formidable player on world's stage. She has people who take pride in their history. She will not go down alone fighting.

2. Ukraine is trying to punch above her weight desperately and to an extent is being used by EU/US.

3. The net gains are going to US - She is only winner here in this conflict.

4. Europe is portraying strong character but I feel they are very nervous inside and seeing unpredictable future ahead. The Fire is straight on their near horizon.

4. Russians have enormous experience in war fighting and their grit/determination should not be underestimated. They will take losses but they may move ahead. Their sphere of influence is getting too contested and they are not liking it one bit.

5. The way US/Europe are cornering Putin/Russia in financial/military domains is extremely dangerous. As if they are trying/hoping to carve a villain out of Russia.


I am more on Russia's side here....Yes, loss of lives on both sides is condemn-able and peace should be on table asap but I can't blame Russians here.

They are fighting a defensive war.

Their invasion looks aggression on ground but in nature, it is actually a defensive move to preempt circle of NATO right on Russia's border. Add prior history/cultural links Russia has with Ukraine and picture may get complete for us to see.

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## CrazyZ

dBSPL said:


> *!!!*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498029624273825792


What happened to the ghost of Kiev, I thought he shot down half the Russian AF.

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## Steppe Wolff

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498002858733719558

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## Basel



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## _Nabil_

1ndy said:


> You're forgetting Pakistani students...


What have the Pakistani students have to do with the facts or with your racist statements???

I've mentioned the reports I've seen, if you have something concerning Pakistani or any other nationality incident, just share✌️

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## Steppe Wolff

CrazyZ said:


> What happened to the quest of Kiev, I thought he shot down half the Russian AF.


Like the Indians shot F-16. Ukrainians shot half of Russian Airforce 😂😂

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## 1ndy

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> Been observing this thread for *days*. Here's what* I think*.
> 
> 1. Russia is a formidable player on world's stage. She has people who take pride in their history. She will not go down alone fighting.
> 
> 2. Ukraine is trying to punch above her weight desperately and to an extent is being used by EU/US.
> 
> 3. The net gains are going to US - She is only winner here in this conflict.
> 
> 4. Europe is portraying strong character but I feel they are very nervous inside and seeing unpredictable future ahead. The Fire is straight on their near horizon.
> 
> 4. Russians have enormous experience in war fighting and their grit/determination should not be underestimated. They will take losses but they may move ahead. Their sphere of influence is getting too contested and they are not liking it one bit.
> 
> 5. The way US/Europe are cornering Putin/Russia in financial/military domains is extremely dangerous. As if they are trying/hoping to carve a villain out of Russia.
> 
> 
> I am more on Russia's side here....Yes, loss of lives on both sides is condemn-able and peace should be on table asap but I can't blame Russians here.
> 
> They are fighting a defensive war.
> 
> Their invasion looks aggression on ground but in nature, it is actually a defensive move to preempt circle of NATO right on Russia's border. Add prior history/cultural links Russia has with Ukraine and picture may get complete for us to see.


PakLovesRussia*

Turkey is NATO


----------



## Indian Libertarian

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> Been observing this thread for *days*. Here's what* I think*.
> 
> 1. Russia is a formidable player on world's stage. She has people who take pride in their history. She will not go down alone fighting.
> 
> 2. Ukraine is trying to punch above her weight desperately and to an extent is being used by EU/US.
> 
> 3. The net gains are going to US - She is only winner here in this conflict.
> 
> 4. Europe is portraying strong character but I feel they are very nervous inside and seeing unpredictable future ahead. The Fire is straight on their near horizon.
> 
> 4. Russians have enormous experience in war fighting and their grit/determination should not be underestimated. They will take losses but they may move ahead. Their sphere of influence is getting too contested and they are not liking it one bit.
> 
> 5. The way US/Europe are cornering Putin/Russia in financial/military domains is extremely dangerous. As if they are trying/hoping to carve a villain out of Russia.
> 
> 
> I am more on Russia's side here....Yes, loss of lives on both sides is condemn-able and peace should be on table asap but I can't blame Russians here.
> 
> They are fighting a defensive war.
> 
> Their invasion looks aggression on ground but in nature, it is actually a defensive move to preempt circle of NATO right on Russia's border. Add prior history/cultural links Russia has with Ukraine and picture may get complete for us to see.


Most concerning issue is that Russia is being severely rejected and isolated. I don’t think Putin is “crazy” as the Western media has painted him up to now. However, having no off-ramps or de escalation is leading to strong rhetoric coming from Russia, especially regarding nukes.

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## maverick1977

Utter destruction or Russian Armor









You can see a Ukrainian soldier holding N-LAW anti tank missile and a Russian armoured vehicle with ammunition cooked near Ivankov | By Defence Express | Facebook


14K views, 537 likes, 19 loves, 32 comments, 75 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Defence Express: You can see a Ukrainian soldier holding N-LAW anti tank missile and a Russian armoured vehicle with...




fb.watch


----------



## Basel

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498032151845089287


----------



## zartosht

Using Chechen troops was a brilliant move by putin.

Not only for the phsycological aspect, as the chechens are absolute warrior peoples known the world over. And it is scaring the kiev junta so much that it needs to put out specific propaganda to try and dissuade them.

Also, The Chechens are the only muslim soldiers in the theatre now. This potentially prevents Euope from using naive muslims against Russia. And we all know muslims make the best guerrila fighters simply because of faith.

The Europeans are flooding ukraine with weapons, and encouraging everyone and their grandma to go fight as private citizens. If the europeans could have created some sort of tartar genocide jihadi propaganda, Russians could have been in serious trouble.

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## Ali_Baba

fallschirmjager786 said:


> Russian media already accidentally posted an article proclaiming victory and deleted it. Read the translation through Google translate. Pretty hilarious given ground realities. Goes to show they expected everything to be over by the end of the weekend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Наступление России и нового мира
> 
> 
> Новый мир рождается на наших глазах. Военная операция России на Украине открыла новую эпоху — причем сразу в трех измерениях. И конечно, в четвертом,... РИА Новости, 26.02.2022
> 
> 
> 
> 
> web.archive.org



Wow - pure and simple - this is nothing about "securing security by commitments to not join NATO" and instead - is a full fledged invasion and occupation of the whole of Ukraine ....


----------



## waz

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498018525184761867



Oh my God……


----------



## 1ndy

INS_Vikramaditya said:


> Really you are trying to score political brownie points over indian students in distress even life threatening situation. Can't believe hatred for one makes people like you stoop so low. Low lives pathetic like you push neutral and people on fence into voting for BJP, previously I was uncertain about my vote preference in 2024 however now I am absolutely certain whom to vote, thanks for making my mind clear about that. And also dont bother replying to this, you are blocked.


should I show you tweets saying only Modi ji can bring back Indians? 
and people still abusing Nehru for putting Indian students in danger? 😅


----------



## CrazyZ

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> Been observing this thread for *days*. Here's what* I think*.
> 
> 1. Russia is a formidable player on world's stage. She has people who take pride in their history. She will not go down alone fighting.
> 
> 2. Ukraine is trying to punch above her weight desperately and to an extent is being used by EU/US.
> 
> 3. The net gains are going to US - She is only winner here in this conflict.
> 
> 4. Europe is portraying strong character but I feel they are very nervous inside and seeing unpredictable future ahead. The Fire is straight on their near horizon.
> 
> 4. Russians have enormous experience in war fighting and their grit/determination should not be underestimated. They will take losses but they may move ahead. Their sphere of influence is getting too contested and they are not liking it one bit.
> 
> 5. The way US/Europe are cornering Putin/Russia in financial/military domains is extremely dangerous. As if they are trying/hoping to carve a villain out of Russia.
> 
> 
> I am more on Russia's side here....Yes, loss of lives on both sides is condemn-able and peace should be on table asap but I can't blame Russians here.
> 
> They are fighting a defensive war.
> 
> Their invasion looks aggression on ground but in nature, it is actually a defensive move to preempt circle of NATO right on Russia's border. Add prior history/cultural links Russia has with Ukraine and picture may get complete for us to see.


I would say that Russia is a corned bear that is striking out....    Too early to say if this was worth it. If Ukraine agrees not to join NATO as part of a cease fire then the Russians achieved their main goal.

USA gains the most (At the very least the EU will be forced to stop free loading off of collective defense). MENA region and China will also gain. Time will tell.


----------



## RescueRanger

Unconfirmed as yet:

Putin fires his Military Chief of Staff Gerasimov.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498031102283464704

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498028797664579584


----------



## Ali_Baba

dBSPL said:


> *!!!*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498029624273825792



WOW - this would be Mig29's / Su-25's and Su-27's from the former Soviet states. There is no way that they can operate any other type..

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## The SC

khansaheeb said:


> The resistance in Ukraine is going so well that the UK gov is asking for British mercenaries to fight in outright defiance of international law. I wonder if she has own kids she would like to volunteer to be maimed or killed in a war that is nothing to do with them.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498022930969620481


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## Abu Shaleh Rumi

Look at the date...

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## LeGenD

RescueRanger said:


> Ukraine isn't Afghanistan, the USAF bombed the shit out of those mountains. In Early December 2001, the USAF dropped a 15,000 bomb off the back of a C130 in Tora Bora which shook the mountains for miles after impact. In April of 2017, the US went one step further and dropped a 21000lbs MOAB on an ISIS tunnel complex.
> 
> Based on available statistics between 2006 and 2019 the allied forces dropped *47,081 bombs in Afghanistan. Let that sink in!*



Afghanistan's geography is really something: 






The sheer amount of firepower Afghanistan have absorbed over the course of years is mind numbing.

This country does not have much infrastructure to begin with, landlocked, and provides too many hideouts to facilitate guerilla warfare - the graveyard of Empires.

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## CrazyZ

Ali_Baba said:


> WOW - this would be Mig29's / Su-25's and Su-27's from the former Soviet states. There is no way that they can operate any other type..


Unless they send volunteer pilots.

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## kingQamaR

The only humiliation thus far is entirely Russian. A massive, modernised army, many times the size of its presumed victim, and they're destroying Russian armour left, right and centre, with the help of western weaponry. Now, the madman hiding in his bunker threatens nuclear weapons because he's lost so much face and his forces are impotent. His aim, to prevent Ukraine joining Nato, and to prove nato weakness has utterly failed. Now, he has a revitalised NATO, a rearming Germany, a Europe acting united, and an utterly ruined Russian economy.

When all this is over, and it is close to endgame now, we need to find out who some of these PDF based Russian trolls are and deal with them

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## Indian Libertarian

Ali_Baba said:


> WOW - this would be Mig29's / Su-25's and Su-27's from the former Soviet states. There is no way that they can operate any other type..


Seems like a win win. Give Ukrainian your old planes and spend billions of dollars on new F35.


----------



## Steppe Wolff

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498026702601129992

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## kingQamaR

Now you see why nuclear weapons should only be in the hands of "Democratic" countries. Dictators and tyrants can't be trusted.

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## Iron Shrappenel

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498018525184761867


Deleted ?

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## dBSPL

Ali_Baba said:


> WOW - this would be Mig29's / Su-25's and Su-27's from the former Soviet states. There is no way that they can operate any other type..


Maybe Georgia's SU-25s...


dBSPL said:


> (...)
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491351056793862144
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those who look at the photo carefully will notice another detail.

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## Invicta

RescueRanger said:


> Unconfirmed as yet:
> 
> Putin fires his Military Chief of Staff Gerasimov.


Could be true. If the situation on the ground is anything to go by Comrade Putin will need someone as the fall guy to protect his image.

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## CrazyZ

kingQamaR said:


> The only humiliation thus far is entirely Russian. A massive, modernised army, many times the size of its presumed victim, and they're destroying Russian armour left, right and centre, with the help of western weaponry. Now, the madman hiding in his bunker threatens nuclear weapons because he's lost so much face and his forces are impotent. His aim, to prevent Ukraine joining Nato, and to prove nato weakness has utterly failed. Now, he has a revitalised NATO, a rearming Germany, a Europe acting united, and an utterly ruined Russian economy.
> 
> When all this is over, and it is close to endgame now, we need to find out who some of these PDF based Russian trolls are and deal with them


Upgraded T-72's are no match for current gen ATGM's. The Russian battle doctrine relays on quantity not quality. Its still far too early to determine who won.

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## Basel

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498032128273133573


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## Meengla

Meengla said:


> Russia is destined to be a country limited to the west of the Urals and integrated with Europe. From Peter the Great's time. The megalomania of the USSR days are unachievable. But I wish the West had waited until after Putin passed away. What is destined to happen, will happen over time. But sadly too many lives would be lost before that.



@LeGenD 
Quoting myself: This is what I believe for the long term. And I also think Pakistan's interests are slightly better served by a victorious Russia in this conflict although a Russian loss won't be too much loss for Pakistan. Pakistanis may stay totally neutral in this conflict. But Pakistan's strongest ally China has a stake in Russia's strength, at least for short term. Above all, I believe Russia is provoked into this. This is not all of a sudden. Russia didn't do much when the Baltic and other Warsaw Pact countries joined NATO. But for last many years, Ukrainian have been used, armed to provoke Russia and that has led to the current war. 
*BTW, 'Liking' someone's comment is not that same as agreeing with them. I have done that all the time in this forum and even in this very thread for a few posts which were contrary to my position. If something enhances my understanding of issues then that's to be 'Liked'. *

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## M. Sarmad

LeGenD said:


> There are plenty of pro-Russian posts in this thread - I haven't removed them.
> 
> I removed your post because it represents trolling.
> 
> Trolling = _"make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them._*"*
> 
> You find views of those Pakistani who are concerned about what is happening to Ukraine as appalling? I reminded you of the fact that Ukraine have contributed to Pakistani defenses on many counts through the years. WE are supposed to respect our allies.
> 
> Do not bring off-topic conversations into your exchanges with me. For perspective, what happened in Salala is deplorable *but* Pakistan was able to make Obama administration apologize for this incident. Pakistan have significant economic ties with both USA and Europe in fact. Any word on IMF bailout packages as well? Open your eyes for a change.



Well, I wasn't trolling, nor was my post pro-Russia (it was rather anti US/NATO imperialism), nor did I say that I find the view of those who are concerned about Ukraine as appalling. I find the view of those defending US/NATO imperialism as appalling, esp the Pakistanis who have been a direct victim of US and NATO aggression. What are you on about??

And now I find the apathy and indifference you have shown to the martyrdom of 28 Pakistani soldiers in Salala at the hands of NATO in a preplanned, premeditated act of naked aggression, rather terrorism as "appalling".. That's my view and you are free to disagree with it but just because a certain point of view makes you feel uneasy doesn't mean that it's 'trolling' 

You are free to believe in the western propaganda regarding Putin and Russia. I will never support US and NATO who have killed more innocent human beings, Muslims and Brown people exclusively, in the last few decades than anybody else ever has. Anyone challenging the US and NATO global terrorism deserves our support. And no, we shouldn't sell our sovereignty and self respect for few dollars/trade.... In the end, US and NATO are going to support India against us no matter what we do for them. It's you who needs to wake up and smell the coffee

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## Indian Libertarian

Meengla said:


> @LeGenD
> Quoting myself: This is what I believe for the long term. And I also think Pakistan's interests are slightly better served by a victorious Russia in this conflict although a Russian loss won't be too much loss for Pakistan. Pakistanis may stay totally neutral in this conflict. But Pakistan's strongest ally China has a stake in Russia's strength, at least for short term. Above all, I believe Russia is provoked into this. This is not all of a sudden. Russia didn't do much when the Baltic and other Warsaw Pact countries joined NATO. But for last many years, Ukrainian have been used, armed to provoke Russia and that has led to the current war.
> *BTW, 'Liking' someone's comment is not that same as agreeing with them. I have done that all the time in this forum and even in this very thread for a few posts which were contrary to my position. If something enhances my understanding of issues then that's to be 'Liked'. *


Ukraine is a lot closer to Russian industrial heartland. I think they felt that this was the point of no return. If Ukraine became NATO, Russia would have no guarantee of security.

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## 1ndy

zartosht said:


> Using Chechen troops was a brilliant move by putin.
> 
> Not only for the phsycological aspect, as the chechens are absolute warrior peoples known the world over. And it is scaring the kiev junta so much that it needs to put out specific propaganda to try and dissuade them.
> 
> Also, The Chechens are the only muslim soldiers in the theatre now. This potentially prevents Euope from using naive muslims against Russia. And we all know muslims make the best guerrila fighters simply because of faith.
> 
> The Europeans are flooding ukraine with weapons, and encouraging everyone and their grandma to go fight as private citizens. If the europeans could have created some sort of tartar genocide jihadi propaganda, Russians could have been in serious trouble.


The same Russia which is getting roasted in Armored Vehicles in Ukraine roasted them... warriors


----------



## RescueRanger

RescueRanger said:


> Al Jazeera News Presenter just embarrassed himself again by saying and I quote "Look at these images, these are middle class European people and not obvious middle eastern refugees, these are people you would live next to and now they are on the borders on the trains".
> 
> What he wanted to say was *"these are white people, not the filthy brown people from far away brown lands that we have bombed to shit". *



Al Jazeera and CBS Live how now apologized for the language used on live reporting, more here:









‘Double standards’: Western coverage of Ukraine war criticised


Social media users accuse media of hypocrisy in its coverage of Russia’s war on Ukraine compared with other conflicts.




www.aljazeera.com

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## zartosht

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498022930969620481



What is the legal status of these mercenaries? Russia is well within its rights to give no quarter to these terrorists, and execute them on the spot according to the rules of war...

Russians see Nazis genociding Russian speakers as a repeat of WW2. Europes solutions? Send every nazi and right wing trash they can find, to go fight in Russian lands.. in the name of "defending an invasion" 

Russia has alot more right to those lands, then joe random From ireland. Who is too stupid to not liberate northern ireland before [playing soldier somewhere else.

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## QWECXZ

Meengla said:


> @LeGenD
> Quoting myself: This is what I believe for the long term. And I also think Pakistan's interests are slightly better served by a victorious Russia in this conflict although a Russian loss won't be too much loss for Pakistan. Pakistanis may stay totally neutral in this conflict. But Pakistan's strongest ally China has a stake in Russia's strength, at least for short term. Above all, I believe Russia is provoked into this. This is not all of a sudden. Russia didn't do much when the Baltic and other Warsaw Pact countries joined NATO. But for last many years, Ukrainian have been used, armed to provoke Russia and that has led to the current war.
> *BTW, 'Liking' someone's comment is not that same as agreeing with them. I have done that all the time in this forum and even in this very thread for a few posts which were contrary to my position. If something enhances my understanding of issues then that's to be 'Liked'. *


Suffice to say, there's no way that the outcome of this war can affect Muslim countries in a negative way. No matter who wins, it will be good for us.

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## jamal18

fallschirmjager786 said:


> Do the Indian students have travel documents to Poland? It's up to the Indian government to secure visas and entry permits. Poland is open to Ukrainians, not Indians and Africans. Besides, their allies of Russia, tell them to walk up to the Russians surrounding Ukraine and they will be given a VIP exit through Belarus and moscow


Do the Ukrainians?

I trust the Polish border guard won't push them into the forests of Belarus like they did the other war refugees.


----------



## The SC

#Urgent From the Ukrainian capital Kiev now..

www.facebook.com/100009983139612/videos/280292300914848/


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## Genghis khan1

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497989931683270661


Russians must be restraining because the moment he assaulted solider he becomes an enemy combatants. Soldiers could have simply shoot him.


----------



## Basel

INS_Vikramaditya said:


> Really you are trying to score political brownie points over indian students in distress even life threatening situation. Can't believe hatred for one makes people like you stoop so low. Low lives pathetic like you push neutral and people on fence into voting for BJP, previously I was uncertain about my vote preference in 2024 however now I am absolutely certain whom to vote, thanks for making my mind clear about that. And also dont bother replying to this, you are blocked.



Currently students from many countries are trapped in Ukraine including Pakistani students and they are facing bad behavior from host county.


----------



## A1Kaid

Not even a week and nearly all major Ukrainian cities about to fall to Russia's 1/3 invasion force.


"Kyiv surrounded, says mayor: fighting on fourth day of Russian invasion"​








Russian forces advance on Kyiv: fighting on fourth day of invasion


Russian forces advance, but assault on Kharkiv in east repelled by Ukrainian fighters




www.theguardian.com

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## Ali_Baba

No current Su27 operators in EU/NATO - but the following Mig29's exist.

16 x Mig29 - Bulgaria

30 x Mig29 - Poland

19 x Mig29 Slovakia









Mikoyan MiG-29 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## Basel

The SC said:


> #Urgent From the Ukrainian capital Kiev now..
> 
> www.facebook.com/100009983139612/videos/280292300914848/



Please share situation in the link?


----------



## jamal18

George Galloway. Always good, always the opposite of the state sponsored narrative.

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## khansaheeb

QWECXZ said:


> I guess the Russian Air Force will be used more extensively when they have suppressed Ukraine's air defense.
> This is just the 4th day of the war. A lot can happen in the coming days.
> 
> Ukraine is almost 40% larger than Iraq and unlike Iraq, it is supported by all Western countries and their allies. It took the US coalition forces 3 weeks to conquer Baghdad. I can ensure you that if Ukraine does not negotiate with Russia and give in to most of Putin's demands, this war will be won by the Russians in less than a month. Heck, they are on the verge of invading Kiev as we speak and the city may fall in 48 hours or so.


I would have expected the Russians to patrol the border areas with aircraft to prevent Ukrainian weapons supplies from entering and use Drones to decimate the air defense , armor and artillery units in central Ukraine with drones, before sending the tanks. This would have delayed the outcome but at a much lower cost. This Blitzkrieg operation has been quick to get the Russians into a quagmire with Russian losses growing daily. Only choice left for the Russians is flatten all the Ukrainian gov structures so there is no semblance of Ukrainian gov left. 

As for NATO it seems they are going for the Afghan model where they will be using fully trained regular troops from bordering countries and dress them up as freedom fighters to inflict a painful guerilla war on the Russians. NATO needs to be careful as an involvement beyond a certain threshold may cause Russia to attack direct frontline states.

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## RescueRanger

Invicta said:


> Could be true. If the situation on the ground is anything to go by Comrade Putin will need someone as the fall guy to protect his image.


Perhaps General Gerasimov got sucked out of a window on his way back from a meeting. Funny thing those windows, you walk past them and you just get sucked out.



jamal18 said:


> George Galloway. Always good, always the opposite of the state sponsored narrative.


Oh thank you for sharing this, I like this man.

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## jamal18

Indian Libertarian said:


> Ukraine is a lot closer to Russian industrial heartland. I think they felt that this was the point of no return. If Ukraine became NATO, Russia would have no guarantee of security.


This is the core of the issue.

This is the Cuban missile crisis in reverse.

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## dBSPL

Ali_Baba said:


> No current Su27 operators in EU/NATO - but the following Mig29's exist.
> 
> 16 x Mig29 - Bulgaria
> 
> 30 x Mig29 - Poland
> 
> 19 x Mig29 Slovakia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mikoyan MiG-29 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


#HellenicRafalesforUkraine

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## The SC

The Russian advance to the north aims to encircle the capital, Kiev. I don't think the Russians fear the Ukrainian army or the Ukrainian air control, because they destroyed a large part of it.

As for the south, the Russian advance is protected in the south by the sea..
And there is only a threat to the supply lines from the north..

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## zartosht

1ndy said:


> The same Russia which is getting roasted in Armored Vehicles in Ukraine roasted them... warriors



according to the BBC?? Ukrainian propaganda is laughable. 

the russians have taken 20-30% of the country, and are inside the capital in 3 days. A massive coutnry, 40_ million population that has been getting unlimited NATO support for 8 years, and planning for such a scenario for 8.

I love how western propaganda has turned this ukrainian pummeling into some kind of heroic defense...

If this progress is slow. especially given Russia hasnt even thrown 10% of their forces in, and are fighitng with kiddy gloves on to avoid giving propaqanda civilian deads the west so badly wants... 

If Russias progress is slow, i wonder what is fasT>?


The american method of chasing their tails for 20 years and still barely holding the major cities? is that "fast" ?

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## A1Kaid

Trango Towers said:


> I don't think so.
> 
> I think main demand is drop NATO membership



Not just that but recognition of the 2 Donbas states, and territories in SE Ukraine connecting these states with Crimea. Probably other demands too.


----------



## jamal18

khansaheeb said:


> I would have expected the Russians to patrol the border areas with aircraft to prevent Ukrainian weapons supplies from entering and use Drones to decimate the air defense , armor and artillery units in central Ukraine with drones, before sending the tanks. This would have delayed the outcome but at a much lower cost. This Blitzkrieg operation has been quick to get the Russians into a quagmire with Russian losses growing daily. Only choice left for the Russians is flatten all the Ukrainian gov structures so there is no semblance of Ukrainian gov left.
> 
> As for NATO it seems they are going for the Afghan model where they will be using fully trained regular troops from bordering countries and dress them up as freedom fighters to inflict a painful guerilla war on the Russians. NATO needs to be careful as an involvement beyond a certain threshold may cause Russia to attack direct frontline states.



Involving Nato troops would be throwing petrol into a fire.

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## A1Kaid

fallschirmjager786 said:


> Russian media already accidentally posted an article proclaiming victory and deleted it. Read the translation through Google translate. Pretty hilarious given ground realities. Goes to show they expected everything to be over by the end of the weekend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Наступление России и нового мира
> 
> 
> Новый мир рождается на наших глазах. Военная операция России на Украине открыла новую эпоху — причем сразу в трех измерениях. И конечно, в четвертом,... РИА Новости, 26.02.2022
> 
> 
> 
> 
> web.archive.org



Who cares? Those kinds of things are trivial.


----------



## CrazyZ

Meengla said:


> @LeGenD
> Quoting myself: This is what I believe for the long term. And I also think Pakistan's interests are slightly better served by a victorious Russia in this conflict although a Russian loss won't be too much loss for Pakistan. Pakistanis may stay totally neutral in this conflict. But Pakistan's strongest ally China has a stake in Russia's strength, at least for short term. Above all, I believe Russia is provoked into this. This is not all of a sudden. Russia didn't do much when the Baltic and other Warsaw Pact countries joined NATO. But for last many years, Ukrainian have been used, armed to provoke Russia and that has led to the current war.
> *BTW, 'Liking' someone's comment is not that same as agreeing with them. I have done that all the time in this forum and even in this very thread for a few posts which were contrary to my position. If something enhances my understanding of issues then that's to be 'Liked'. *


Pakistan and MENA region as a whole is best served by neutrality. We should focus on development and growth....for that we need peace. We gain from trade with all the big powers. If Russia can provide low cost oil and gas to us through the CIPS payment system then we should consider it.

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## waz

INS_Vikramaditya said:


> The same is reported by Indian students at Poland border. Seems they want to hold foreign nationals as hostages. This is the free and democratic country NATO claims to be protecting lol. Hope Russia bombs them to smithereens.



Do you have any links please, any Indian media? That is beyond evil.

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## QWECXZ

khansaheeb said:


> I would have expected the Russians to patrol the border areas with aircraft to prevent Ukrainian weapons supplies from entering and use Drones to decimate the air defense , armor and artillery units in central Ukraine with drones, before sending the tanks. This would have delayed the outcome but at a much lower cost. This Blitzkrieg operation has been quick to get the Russians into a quagmire with Russian losses growing daily. Only choice left for the Russians is flatten all the Ukrainian gov structures so there is no semblance of Ukrainian gov left.
> 
> As for NATO it seems they are going for the Afghan model where they will be using fully trained regular troops from bordering countries and dress them up as freedom fighters to inflict a painful guerilla war on the Russians. NATO needs to be careful as an involvement beyond a certain threshold may cause Russia to attack direct frontline states.


Russia has not opened a front in the west of Ukraine in cities like Lviv. NATO can and will continue to use its access to western regions of Ukraine for reinforcements. This could be due to several factors, including lack of logistics to that part of Ukraine, fear of unintended clashes with neighboring countries or an unofficial agreement with NATO about not invading areas of Ukraine that border NATO members.

I don't think the Afghan model would work in Ukraine. I have talked about it in detail before.

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## jamal18

A1Kaid said:


> Not just that but recognition of the 2 Donbas states, and territories in SE Ukraine connecting these states with Crimea. Probably other demands too.


Not sure. If the Ukraine dropped Nato membership, and recognised the rights of the Russian minority there would be no need for the independent republics.

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## Meengla

M. Sarmad said:


> In the end, US and NATO are going to support India against us no matter what we do for them. It's you who needs to wake up and smell the coffee



Yes.
How come ANY Pakistani not seen over the last 2 decades what happened in Afghanistan and its fallout on Pakistan??? Pakistan was and still is asked to abandon China and let India's primacy in the region. That's not some conspiracy theory; Pakistan's own Prime Minister has said that. Pakistan wants to be neutral but without hurting Chinese interests. Those are the 'red lines' Pakistan has drawn recently and conveyed to the Americans. Not asking for much. And Russia, being a Chinese ally, is better to be a victor as far as Pakistan's interests are concerned. This is not about living in some past grievances, whether the Russian help to India in 1971 or America's killing of Pakistani soldiers in the Salala attack, which I believe was a callous mistake but not intentional. 
The geopolitical situation around Pakistan is changing very rapidly. PDF is screaming about that and its all there for the world to see.

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## Kyusuibu Honbu



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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498038156066648066


----------



## Trango Towers

fallschirmjager786 said:


> Do the Indian students have travel documents to Poland? It's up to the Indian government to secure visas and entry permits. Poland is open to Ukrainians, not Indians and Africans. Besides, their allies of Russia, tell them to walk up to the Russians surrounding Ukraine and they will be given a VIP exit through Belarus and moscow


Regardless of what your views these are stupid kids. Students. Just trying to get home. This is about racism 





__





TikTok - Make Your Day


TikTok - trends start here. On a device or on the web, viewers can watch and discover millions of personalized short videos. Download the app to get started.




vm.tiktok.com

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## Iron Shrappenel

waz said:


> Oh my God……


Why doesn't this open for me


----------



## Abid123

INS_Vikramaditya said:


> The same is reported by Indian students at Poland border. Seems they want to hold foreign nationals as hostages. This is the free and democratic country NATO claims to be protecting lol. Hope Russia bombs them to smithereens.


Probably the only conflict where the majority of Pakistanis and Indian are on the same side.

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## khansaheeb

jamal18 said:


> Not sure. If the Ukraine dropped Nato membership, and recognised the rights of the Russian minority there would be no need for the independent republics.


Such a simple deal would have prevented such an expensive outcome. Feel sorry for the people of Ukraine who have a puppet comedian president.

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## kingQamaR

CrazyZ said:


> Upgraded T-72's are no match for current gen ATGM's. The Russian battle doctrine relays on quantity not quality. Its still far too early to determine who won.



I’ve seen pics of T80s and T90s to destroyed by anti tank missiles by Ukrainian. Regarding his Russia army tactics, shows they have no place in a modern warfare. I hate to think what a nato strike would have done to these Russians.

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## INS_Vikrant

[


jamal18 said:


> This is the core of the issue.
> 
> This is the Cuban missile crisis in reverse.


Honestly Cuban Missile Crisis is a wrong term it should actually be called Turkish Missile Crisis as USSR started placing nuclear missiles in cuba only after learning that US has already deployed Jupiter missiles in Turkey aimed directly at it.

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## RescueRanger

waz said:


> Do you have any links please, any Indian media? That is beyond evil.



This is being reported by others on social media accounts:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497654141350522880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497855205098106880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497899907151118337

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## The SC

Media reports a powerful explosion in Cherkasy: looks like a thermobaric bomb


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498036015319207942

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498037927154270216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498037789145051136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498039478342111236

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## kingQamaR

Is it true ? 

The Chechens were taken out by Ukrainians, including their general.

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## INS_Vikrant

fallschirmjager786 said:


> Do the Indian students have travel documents to Poland? It's up to the Indian government to secure visas and entry permits. Poland is open to Ukrainians, not Indians and Africans. Besides, their allies of Russia, tell them to walk up to the Russians surrounding Ukraine and they will be given a VIP exit through Belarus and moscow



They don't need visa


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497873801916280833

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## Indian Libertarian

kingQamaR said:


> I’ve seen pics of T80s and T90s to destroyed by anti tank missiles by Ukrainian. Regarding his Russia army tactics, shows they have no place in a modern warfare. I hate to think what a nato strike would have done to these Russians.


Russia doesn’t have conventional supremacy against NATO like the USSR had. In an all out war with NATO they would probably use tactical nukes on advancing armies and their bases.

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## Tamerlane

dBSPL said:


> On this forum, 95% of people were making fun of the British warmongering and provocation of Russia. By the end of the fifth day we understand a little better why the US and Britain pushed Russia into a full-scale invasion war.



This war is a regime change operation. An Anglo-Zionist plan to overthrow Putin and install someone like Boris Yeltsin who will drink vodka while the Zionists loot the country.

Just to clarify for those who are not familiar. The belligerents consist of the following hierarchy, with the most powerful on top:

1. Israel (Zion)
2. USA (Zionist control: 100%. Leader of the Anglo-Zionists)
3. UK (Zionist control: 90%. Deputy Anglo-Zionist)
4. Canada, Australia, NZ (Zionist control: 70-90%. Tag along Anglo-Zionists)
5. EU/NATO (Controlled and led by the Anglo-Zionists)

This war is, in my opinion, more significant than 9/11. That was a Anglo-Zionist declaration of war on Islam. Zionist control of the Anglo countries means that they plan and fight wars for the benefit of Israel, not their own interests. After spending 20 years and $10 trillion killing Muslims they've achieved zero benefit for themselves. Only Israel has benefitted with more land and security.

Russia with Putin in charge could not be controlled by the Jews. So he had to go. Because they can't do a color revolution in Russia they have to bring down its economy so that Russians will overthrow him themselves.

There can be absolutely no doubt that Russia was baited on purpose to invade Ukraine. Every time Russia said they will not invade, the Jewish comedian, Zelensky, would issue an even more outrageous statement, like joining NATO, arming Ukraine with nuclear weapons etc. His mission was to provoke an invasion and now it is to cause as much bloodshed as possible. Once the Russians take over he'll move to his true homeland and live in Tel Aviv.

If they fail to overthrow Putin then this can turn into a nightmare for the Anglos-Zionists. Killing Muslims was a turkey shoot. They could kill millions at their leisure and it was quite enjoyable. But now they may have to deal with a wounded and angry bear armed with continent destroying nuclear weapons.

Everything will now depend on Putin's overthrow. If it doesn't happen then Zion will be in for a rough ride.

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## lastofthepatriots

atya said:


> The real question is how do you know that. Chit chatting have you 😂



It was online news sir. I am an unhappily married man with an almost 2 year old son.

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## dBSPL

*!!!*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498040553090560009


----------



## 1ndy

At one hand our governments (India, Pak and others) supporting Russian invasion of Ukraine, on the other hand, expecting Ukrainians to support their students crossing into Europe...

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## MM_Haider

dBSPL said:


> *!!!*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498029624273825792


Imagine Muslim states providing support now to fellow countries... in past I know Indonesia helped Pakistan in 65 war and Pakistan helped Arab states against Israel..

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## WinterFangs

kingQamaR said:


> Is it true ?
> 
> The Chechens were taken out by Ukrainians, including their general.


No, it’s all rumours, nothing has been confirmed.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498041487342321670


----------



## Trango Towers

kingQamaR said:


> Now you see why nuclear weapons should only be in the hands of "Democratic" countries. Dictators and tyrants can't be trusted.


And the only country ti use nukes is ?? ???? 

Come on you can do it. ....

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## WinterFangs

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497924614865002497
now, this is something i can’t support, defending these people, Russians may be invaders, but these Ukrainians ain’t any better, prob worse.

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## Indian Libertarian

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498041487342321670


I think Russians control Kakhovka. Where are they firing towards? Odessa? Mykolaiv?


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498040646036164609Negotiations between Russia and Ukraine will begin in the morning

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## 1ndy

WinterFangs said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497924614865002497
> now, this is something i can’t support, defending these people, Russians may be invaders, but these Ukrainians ain’t any better, prob worse.


How do you know the guy isn't Russian and not doing Propaganda?


----------



## A1Kaid

Pretty impressive.

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## alimobin memon

Indian Libertarian said:


> I think Russians control Kakhovka. Where are they firing towards? Odessa? Mykolaiv?


Another proof that russians are kicking them. How come artillery continously firing if ukraine is repelling the invaders :?

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## Metal 0-1

Tbt


----------



## Indian Libertarian

Metal 0-1 said:


> View attachment 819364


Lol I don’t know what that is, whether it’s real or fake. The Z thing is really funny now. People were sending fake photos of Topol M with Z, saying they were being deployed to Ukraine.


----------



## The SC

zartosht said:


> What is the legal status of these mercenaries? Russia is well within its rights to give no quarter to these terrorists, and execute them on the spot according to the rules of war...
> 
> Russians see Nazis genociding Russian speakers as a repeat of WW2. Europes solutions? Send every nazi and right wing trash they can find, to go fight in Russian lands.. in the name of "defending an invasion"
> 
> Russia has alot more right to those lands, then joe random From ireland. Who is too stupid to not liberate northern ireland before [playing soldier somewhere else.


Apparently they will join the foreign legion Ukraine is creating as it was announced..


----------



## BigMelatonin

1ndy said:


> How do you know the guy isn't Russian and not doing Propaganda?


Because it's the verified page of the Ukrainian National Guard posting it? The are very proud of being Nazi scum, they do not hide it.

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## Ich

Me think that after encircling Kievv, Russia will block the Ukrain borders in the west. Then do other cities and pockets while still offering talks.


----------



## 1ndy

Metal 0-1 said:


> View attachment 819364
> 
> 
> View attachment 819365
> 
> Tbt


I said in another post... repeating again... Russia has no money to maintain their hardware to a combat ready level... Most of which they inherited from USSR...


----------



## WinterFangs

1ndy said:


> How do you know the guy isn't Russian and not doing Propaganda?


Ah come on mate atleast think before you reply. It’s posted by the official Ukrainian national guard account. Don’t need to assume everything against Muslims is now suddenly propaganda.

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## tower9

The SC said:


> People are starting to believe that the Covid-19 thing was to prepare Humanity to stay at home for weeks and months and even work from home..because "someone" somehow might have seen a nuclear war approaching..


No shit. Covid 19 is the ZOG flu. Anybody with half a brain and truly knows how the world works can figure it out.

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## 1ndy

BigMelatonin said:


> Because it's the verified page of the Ukrainian National Guard posting it? The are very proud of being Nazi scum, they do not hide it.


then this is bad...


----------



## Meengla

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498040646036164609Negotiations between Russia and Ukraine will begin in the morning



Remember the Biden arrogance just a few days ago when asked about Russia's demand to not require Ukraine to join NATO? I believe that was the face-saving exit for Putin; Putin will be gone before long--he is almost 70 already-- and I don't foresee anyone like him replacing him. Russia is a dying country as we know it. Next would be, at best, a Medvedev and at worst another Yeltsin. This would have sorted out on its own without such loss of life. Imagine the pain of the mothers seeing their dead sons? Or kids losing their father? 

Be at it may, I hope such a guarantee is given now. Joining a military organization propped up by a power thousands of miles away to poke your next door civilizational kin was only stupid.

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## RescueRanger

Managed to find a very good central Ukraine:






Transmission is in Ukrainian & English - Audio file included for your listening pleasure:





__





SndUp | Post info


Record, upload, share! SndUp is a social network, for audio! We enable you to upload audio clips and share them with the world. Sharing your talent is simple!



sndup.net

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498045049183121416


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497958665499910146

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## jamal18

The SC said:


> Apparently they will join the foreign legion Ukraine is creating as it was announced..


I have just been told that it is illegal for a UK citizen to fight in a foreign war.

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## Daylamite Warrior

Ich said:


> Me think that after encircling Kievv, Russia will block the Ukrain borders in the west. Then do other cities and pockets while still offering talks.


Me thinks the Russian satellite must keep tabs of weapons coming into Ukraine and to precision strike them once inside the country. Otherwise Russia will face a Vietnam situation. Can't let NATO send weapons that easily...they need to physical waltz in and give it to them.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498039541008982019


----------



## khansaheeb

Steppe Wolff said:


> Like the Indians shot F-16. Ukrainians shot half of Russian Airforce 😂😂


What are the Ukrainians going to do with NATO aircraft when they have no landing strips to land them on?


zartosht said:


> What is the legal status of these mercenaries? Russia is well within its rights to give no quarter to these terrorists, and execute them on the spot according to the rules of war...
> 
> Russians see Nazis genociding Russian speakers as a repeat of WW2. Europes solutions? Send every nazi and right wing trash they can find, to go fight in Russian lands.. in the name of "defending an invasion"
> 
> Russia has alot more right to those lands, then joe random From ireland. Who is too stupid to not liberate northern ireland before [playing soldier somewhere else.


Under UK it is illegal:-
Titled 'Encouragement of terrorism', section 1 criminalises the publication of statements that are likely to be understood by a reasonable person as encouraging some or all of the members of the public to whom the statement is published to commit, prepare or instigate acts of terrorism.Oct 3, 2020


Also a breach of US law:-
UNITING AND STRENGTHENING AMERICA BY PROVIDING APPROPRIATE TOOLS REQUIRED TO INTERCEPT AND OBSTRUCT TERRORISM (USA PATRIOT ACT) ACT OF 
2001

To deter and punish terrorist acts in the United States and around the world, to enhance law enforcement investigatory tools, and for other purposes. <<NOTE: Oct. 26, 2001 - [H.R. 3162]>> 

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the 
United States of America <<NOTE: Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism (USA PATRIOT ACT) Act of 2001.>> in Congress assembled,

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498038156066648066



Dubious to be honest, Baofeng are used by many freelancers, I have three of them, but I also know that Russian military use these:

*R-187 Azart*

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498046731438673926

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## khansaheeb

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498046731438673926


Did they really think the Russians are that stupid?

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## siegecrossbow

Mrc said:


> One thing to note is that with all those pics of burned armor there are no dead bodies
> 
> It's more like they were abandoned due to lack of fuel before being blown up



How does that make it any worse? That's the loss of several hundred million dollars, which would come in handy during sanctions.


----------



## RescueRanger

jamal18 said:


> I have just been told that it is illegal for a UK citizen to fight in a foreign war.


Yes, I googled it and any Brits planning on going to Ukraine should be careful because Under section 4 of the Foreign Enlistment Act 1870, it is an offence for a British subject to enlist in the military of a foreign state at war with another foreign state with which the UK is at peace.

Since the UK and Russia are not at war, any citizens going to join UAF will be in trouble when they get back, but then again the press will romanticize it and spin it for public sheep to go "aww" and most likely the cases will never see the eyes of a judge. Because lets face it, western Jurisprudence is most malleable when it suits their interests.

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## Clutch

WinterFangs said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497924614865002497
> now, this is something i can’t support, defending these people, Russians may be invaders, but these Ukrainians ain’t any better, prob worse.






That's Ukraine for you.

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## patero

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498046731438673926


Approximately $400 billion of Russias $650 billion in foreign reserves are currently held with central banks in countries which are enforcing the banking sanction. 23% is held in gold by the Russian central bank, 14% with the Chinese central bank which can be accessed. The Russian central bank will quickly burn through their available reserves propping up the rouble and the other Russian banks.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496972650844987402

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## Steppe Wolff

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498048483672182784


patero said:


> Approximately $400 billion of Russias $650 billion in foreign reserves are currently held with central banks in countries which are enforcing the banking sanction. 23% is held in gold by the Russian central bank, 14% with the Chinese central bank which can be accessed. The Russian central bank will quickly burn through their available reserves propping up the rouble and the other Russian banks.


Anything to back up your stats?

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498051076779618318


----------



## FuturePAF

A major development of this war; the new German Chancellor has made a speech where he said Germany will spend 100 billion euros on defense this year and go to the 2% minimum nato standard starting next year; which would put it at 70-75 billion euros depending on the size of the German economy. This is a signal that Germany is about to massively rearm and refurbish its equipment.

We can probably expect the Germans to finally go for the F-35 along with modernizing and buying more Eurofighters. The Germans will probably be building more subs and greatly increase the size of their armored corps.

Looks like we are back in the Cold War for sure.

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## jamal18

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496972650844987402


I love Ritter. I don't share all of his views, but he always confronts the state narrative and tells it like it is.


----------



## Mohsin A

Tamerlane said:


> This war is a regime change operation. An Anglo-Zionist plan to overthrow Putin and install someone like Boris Yeltsin who will drink vodka while the Zionists loot the country.
> 
> Just to clarify for those who are not familiar. The belligerents consist of the following hierarchy, with the most powerful on top:
> 
> 1. Israel (Zion)
> 2. USA (Zionist control: 100%. Leader of the Anglo-Zionists)
> 3. UK (Zionist control: 90%. Deputy Anglo-Zionist)
> 4. Canada, Australia, NZ (Zionist control: 70-90%. Tag along Anglo-Zionists)
> 5. EU/NATO (Controlled and led by the Anglo-Zionists)
> 
> This war is, in my opinion, more significant than 9/11. That was a Anglo-Zionist declaration of war on Islam. Zionist control of the Anglo countries means that they plan and fight wars for the benefit of Israel, not their own interests. After spending 20 years and $10 trillion killing Muslims they've achieved zero benefit for themselves. Only Israel has benefitted with more land and security.
> 
> Russia with Putin in charge could not be controlled by the Jews. So he had to go. Because they can't do a color revolution in Russia they have to bring down its economy so that Russians will overthrow him themselves.
> 
> There can be absolutely no doubt that Russia was baited on purpose to invade Ukraine. Every time Russia said they will not invade, the Jewish comedian, Zelensky, would issue an even more outrageous statement, like joining NATO, arming Ukraine with nuclear weapons etc. His mission was to provoke an invasion and now it is to cause as much bloodshed as possible. Once the Russians take over he'll move to his true homeland and live in Tel Aviv.
> 
> If they fail to overthrow Putin then this can turn into a nightmare for the Anglos-Zionists. Killing Muslims was a turkey shoot. They could kill millions at their leisure and it was quite enjoyable. But now they may have to deal with a wounded and angry bear armed with continent destroying nuclear weapons.
> 
> Everything will now depend on Putin's overthrow. If it doesn't happen then Zion will be in for a rough ride.



Absolutely fantastic post Tamerlane!

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## Stealth

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496972650844987402


After all “United States of A*******” 🤣


----------



## Metal 0-1

RescueRanger said:


> Managed to find a very good central Ukraine:
> View attachment 819366
> 
> 
> Transmission is in Ukrainian & English - Audio file included for your listening pleasure:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SndUp | Post info
> 
> 
> Record, upload, share! SndUp is a social network, for audio! We enable you to upload audio clips and share them with the world. Sharing your talent is simple!
> 
> 
> 
> sndup.net


That audio file is really creepy. ngl

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## hussain0216

RescueRanger said:


> Yes, I googled it and any Brits planning on going to Ukraine should be careful because Under section 4 of the Foreign Enlistment Act 1870, it is an offence for a British subject to enlist in the military of a foreign state at war with another foreign state with which the UK is at peace.
> 
> Since the UK and Russia are not at war, any citizens going to join UAF will be in trouble when they get back, but then again the press will romanticize it and spin it for public sheep to go "aww" and most likely the cases will never see the eyes of a judge. Because lets face it, western Jurisprudence is most malleable when it suits their interests.



The law is not for white people fighting for neo Nazis in Ukraine

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## A1Kaid

Looks like Russia has stopped toying with Ukraine.

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## Trango Towers

1ndy said:


> At one hand our governments (India, Pak and others) supporting Russian invasion of Ukraine, on the other hand, expecting Ukrainians to support their students crossing into Europe...



Pakistan givenment is neutral

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## jamal18

FuturePAF said:


> A major development of this war; the new German Chancellor has made a speech where he said Germany will spend 100 billion euros on defense this year and go to the 2% minimum nato standard starting next year; which would put it at 70-75 billion euros depending on the size of the German economy. This is a signal that Germany is about to massively rearm and refurbish its equipment.
> 
> We can probably expect the Germans to finally go for the F-35 along with modernizing and buying more Eurofighters. The Germans will probably be building more subs and greatly increase the size of their armored corps.
> 
> Looks like we are back in the Cold War for sure.


I believe both France and Germany were against Ukraine's admission to Nato. They are taking the fall out for America's action.

Germany has also had to cancel NordStrea2, under orders from the US.

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## kingQamaR

Although many being sent in are young inexperienced conscripts used as cannon fodder it's also true that Russian special forces are being used, for example to capture Airports but even these are being driven back so it's not true to say only conscripts are being defeated and some kind of magic elite forces are biding their time to sweep in. If this is supposed to be a demonstration of Russian military might then it is failing and only showing weakness.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498053276062867456

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## RescueRanger

Metal 0-1 said:


> That audio file is really creepy. ngl


Found some really interesting ones in Ukrainian but can't speak the Lingo so just noted them didn't bother capturing the Audio because my hard drive s almost full xD. 

Also found a new number station which wasn't there yesterday and we all know who use numbers stations:








The SC said:


> Media reports a powerful explosion in Cherkasy: looks like a thermobaric bomb
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498036015319207942


*It was an ammo dump being blown up. *


----------



## American Pakistani

LeGenD said:


> What about a lengthy history of Pakistan - Ukraine defense deals?
> 
> Russia assaulted Ukraine (not USA) for your kind information.
> 
> Your POV is appaling.


From Pakistani strategic pov, Russian win is necessary because of West's heavy inclinement towards India. World needs some shift of power instead of singular powerhouse. 

Additionally, I feel really bad for Ukrainians but it's their leaders who failed badly to foresee and analyze the theater. They thought West will jump in to help them against a mighty Russia, and they choose to have troubled relations with Russia to side with America without realizing the fact that America will never allow Russia, China or Iran for that matter in its backyard (western hemisphere). Russia already asked for assurance from Nato that they won't cross the red line which was Ukraine's western border, Nato and America rejected that.

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## LeGenD

M. Sarmad said:


> Well, I wasn't trolling, nor was my post pro-Russia (it was rather anti US/NATO imperialism), nor did I say that I find the view of those who are concerned about Ukraine as appalling. I find the view of those defending US/NATO imperialism as appalling, esp the Pakistanis who have been a direct victim of US and NATO aggression. What are you on about??
> 
> And now I find the apathy and indifference you have shown to the martyrdom of 28 Pakistani soldiers in Salala at the hands of NATO in a preplanned, premeditated act of naked aggression, rather terrorism as "appalling".. That's my view and you are free to disagree with it but just because a certain point of view makes you feel uneasy doesn't mean that it's 'trolling'
> 
> You are free to believe in the western propaganda regarding Putin and Russia. I will never support US and NATO who have killed more innocent human beings, Muslims and Brown people exclusively, in the last few decades than anybody else ever has. Anyone challenging the US and NATO global terrorism deserves our support. And no, we shouldn't sell our sovereignty and self respect for few dollars/trade.... In the end, US and NATO are going to support India against us no matter what we do for them. It's you who needs to wake up and smell the coffee



Let us have a look at your statements in the post which I decided to remove:

_"The number of Pakistani posters here defending the Imperialist NATO is appalling...."_

Who are these posters? This statement is a clear diversion from the topic on hand.

_"More power to Russia .. Someone has finally stood up to the US of A, the biggest terrorist in the human history"_

Your statements justify Russian oppression of Ukraine, and violate following Forum Rules:

*Ethnic / political / nationalistic hate*

_Needless to say, PDF wishes to be a productive exchange of ideas and not a place of spreading communal, national, political or religiously motivated hatred. Members found involved in such activities would be severely penalized._

*Flaming / baiting*

_A special form of trolling whereby, threads or posts aimed at inciting an individual or group of people to be emotionally charged and incite fighting are not allowed. PDF is especially against using such posts or threads to incite hatred against politically belligerent nations or group of people e.g. Indians, Pakistanis or Saudis, Iranians etc. This would only add fuel to the flames. That’s not what PDF stands for._

When I confronted you for being unproductive in your post, you brought Salala into your next tirade aimed at me. Seriously, man.

Russia have problem with Volodymyr Zelenskyy because this man is a Ukrainian patriot who wants to defend his country:









From comedian to Ukraine's wartime leader. Who is Volodymyr Zelenskyy?


Ukraine's president came to office in a landslide democratic election, defeating a billionaire businessman




www.irishexaminer.com





_The boldness of Mr Zelenskyy’s stand for Ukraine’s sovereignty might not have been expected from a man whose biggest political liability for many years was the feeling that he was too apt to seek compromise with Moscow. _

_He ran for office in part on a platform that he could negotiate peace with Russia, which had seized Crimea from Ukraine and propped up two pro-Russian separatist regions in 2014, leading to a frozen conflict that had killed an estimated 15,000.

Although Mr Zelenskyy managed a prisoner exchange, the efforts for reconciliation faltered as Mr Putin’s insistence that Ukraine back away from the West became ever more intense, painting the Kyiv government as a nest of extremism run by Washington._

_Mr Zelenskyy has used his own history to demonstrate that his is a country of possibility, not the hate-filled polity of Mr Putin’s imagination._

How Zelenskyy came to power?









Comedian wins Ukraine’s presidential vote


Anti-establishment political novice beats President Petro Poroshenko with 73 percent of votes, preliminary results show.




www.aljazeera.com





_Zelenskyy, the star of the Servant of the People television sitcom, where he fights corruption as a teacher-turned-president, benefited from the Ukrainians’ fatigue of mainstream politicians.

The majority of the population hold Poroshenko responsible for the government’s failure to tackle endemic corruption in the country._









Comedian to Commander: Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the President Defending Ukraine


The 44-year-old was a political novice when he was elected the President of Ukraine in 2019.




www.thequint.com





_Volodymyr Zelenskyy was born in January 1978 in Kryvyi Rih, once an industrial city in Soviet Union, situated now in southern Ukraine._

_Born to Jewish parents, he attended school in Kryvyi Rih and spoke Russian, akin to the people of his region. In 1995, the leader entered Kryvyi Rih Economic Institute – Kiev National Economic University's local campus – and graduated with a law degree in 2000._

_The show, satirising Ukraine's corruption and portraying a longing for a democratic country, became an instant hit among the Ukrainian people, who were witnessing a tumultuous post-Soviet transition._

Please stick to the topic on hand.

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## islamrules2020

Its a war between a continent led by racist degenerate inhuman extrem left liberal zionist globalist Lgbtq+ feminazis hypocrites and an evil gas station with nukes

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## pkuser2k12



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## 313ghazi

A1Kaid said:


> Looks like Russia has stopped toying with Ukraine.


isn't that convoy likely to be attacked by the ukranian airforce, or has the ukrainian airforce been wiped out?


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498054009395027973

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## CrazyZ

American Pakistani said:


> From Pakistani strategic pov, Russian win is necessary because of West's heavy inclinement towards India. World needs some shift of power instead of singular powerhouse.
> 
> Additionally, I feel really bad for Ukrainians but it's their leaders who failed badly to foresee and analyze the theater. They thought West will jump in to help them against a mighty Russia, and they choose to have troubled relations with Russia to side with America without realizing the fact that America will never allow Russia, China or Iran for that matter in its backyard (western hemisphere). Russia already asked for assurance from Nato that they won't cross the red line which was Ukraine's western border, Nato and America rejected that.


Regardless of how this turns out for Russia, Pakistan should remain neutral. World is multipolar and Russia actions only advance this. CIPS and SWIFT will both be used by Pakistan in the future, IMO.

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## RescueRanger

pkuser2k12 said:


> View attachment 819375


I am surprised people didn't know about this.

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## lightning F57

If Putin survives this war, he will be isolated from the west and will need to build stronger relations eastwards. Also putting sanctions on Iran and other countries will become harder for the west, I can see a new financial system emerging which isnt dependant on the dollar and US/European financial institutions. Putin can really create trouble for the EU/US now when it comes to many conflicts around the world.

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## Metal 0-1

RescueRanger said:


> Found some really interesting ones in Ukrainian but can't speak the Lingo so just noted them didn't bother capturing the Audio because my hard drive s almost full xD.
> 
> Also found a new number station which wasn't there yesterday and we all know who use numbers stations:
> View attachment 819374
> 
> 
> 
> *It was an ammo dump being blown up. *


Oh boy


----------



## M. Sarmad

LeGenD said:


> Let us have a look at your statements in the post which I decided to remove:
> 
> _"The number of Pakistani posters here defending the Imperialist NATO is appalling...."_
> 
> Who are these posters? This statement is a clear diversion from the topic on hand.
> 
> _"More power to Russia .. Someone has finally stood up to the US of A, the biggest terrorist in the human history"_
> 
> Your statements justify Russian oppression of Ukraine, and violate following Forum Rules:
> 
> *Ethnic / political / nationalistic hate*
> 
> _Needless to say, PDF wishes to be a productive exchange of ideas and not a place of spreading communal, national, political or religiously motivated hatred. Members found involved in such activities would be severely penalized._
> 
> *Flaming / baiting*
> 
> _A special form of trolling whereby, threads or posts aimed at inciting an individual or group of people to be emotionally charged and incite fighting are not allowed. PDF is especially against using such posts or threads to incite hatred against politically belligerent nations or group of people e.g. Indians, Pakistanis or Saudis, Iranians etc. This would only add fuel to the flames. That’s not what PDF stands for._
> 
> When I confronted you for being unproductive in your post, you brought Salala into your next tirade aimed at me. Seriously, man.
> 
> Russia have problem with Volodymyr Zelenskyy because this man is a Ukrainian patriot who wants to defend his country:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From comedian to Ukraine's wartime leader. Who is Volodymyr Zelenskyy?
> 
> 
> Ukraine's president came to office in a landslide democratic election, defeating a billionaire businessman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.irishexaminer.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _The boldness of Mr Zelenskyy’s stand for Ukraine’s sovereignty might not have been expected from a man whose biggest political liability for many years was the feeling that he was too apt to seek compromise with Moscow. _
> 
> _He ran for office in part on a platform that he could negotiate peace with Russia, which had seized Crimea from Ukraine and propped up two pro-Russian separatist regions in 2014, leading to a frozen conflict that had killed an estimated 15,000.
> 
> Although Mr Zelenskyy managed a prisoner exchange, the efforts for reconciliation faltered as Mr Putin’s insistence that Ukraine back away from the West became ever more intense, painting the Kyiv government as a nest of extremism run by Washington._
> 
> _Mr Zelenskyy has used his own history to demonstrate that his is a country of possibility, not the hate-filled polity of Mr Putin’s imagination._
> 
> How Zelenskyy came to power?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comedian wins Ukraine’s presidential vote
> 
> 
> Anti-establishment political novice beats President Petro Poroshenko with 73 percent of votes, preliminary results show.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Zelenskyy, the star of the Servant of the People television sitcom, where he fights corruption as a teacher-turned-president, benefited from the Ukrainians’ fatigue of mainstream politicians.
> 
> The majority of the population hold Poroshenko responsible for the government’s failure to tackle endemic corruption in the country._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comedian to Commander: Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the President Defending Ukraine
> 
> 
> The 44-year-old was a political novice when he was elected the President of Ukraine in 2019.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thequint.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Volodymyr Zelenskyy was born in January 1978 in Kryvyi Rih, once an industrial city in Soviet Union, situated now in southern Ukraine._
> 
> _Born to Jewish parents, he attended school in Kryvyi Rih and spoke Russian, akin to the people of his region. In 1995, the leader entered Kryvyi Rih Economic Institute – Kiev National Economic University's local campus – and graduated with a law degree in 2000._
> 
> _The show, satirising Ukraine's corruption and portraying a longing for a democratic country, became an instant hit among the Ukrainian people, who were witnessing a tumultuous post-Soviet transition._
> 
> Please stick to the topic on hand.



I am only responsible for what I write, not for what you understand or want to understand from it.. You clearly deleted my post because of difference of opinion. And it's okay. We all have our prejudices and biases, and mods are no exception. 

I, however, am unable to understand that how US/NATO imperialism and hegemonic ambitions, the root cause behind this war, is being flagged "off topic" by you 

As for your pro US/NATO propaganda, as I said earlier, you are free to believe in whatever you want. I know what I am talking about. 

And most importantly, US and NATO are going to support India against us no matter what we do for them. I am sure you too know it .. US appeasing is not going to help us, it never has

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## Bilal.

RescueRanger said:


> I am surprised people didn't know about this.


Yep, how can we forget the coalition of the willing and freedom fries.

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## American Pakistani

CrazyZ said:


> Regardless of how this turns out for Russia, Pakistan should remain neutral. World is multipolar and Russia actions only advance this. CIPS and SWIFT will both be used by Pakistan in the future, IMO.


Of course pakistan must stay neutral. In fact if possible, Pakistan should provide neutral ground to both sides where they can have civil dialouge for peace.

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## Clutch

I think the American and Western Intel knew this was coming. Their hasty withdrawal from Afghanistan now makes perfect sense.

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## RescueRanger

Uranian Misinformation is just as dangerous as Russian propaganda. 

On the Feb 26th Azov, Ukranian soldiers said yesterday they captured an Russian Spetznaz.






Except... This man is a solider in the Azov Brigade 






Please be careful what you choose to retweet/share. Remember *ABC [Assume nothing, Believe no one, Check everything]*

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## Sayfullah

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498038775380733952
Idk if anyone posted this yet but this seems like a huge escalation if true


----------



## The SC

For those still asking what has provoked this invasion that Russia was preparing for since 2020:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267481943156895744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267481945249898499

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267481947896459264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267481949813301248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267481952069844992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267481954708045827
https://twitter.com/mod_russia/status/1267481956301901826

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## Ali_Baba

313ghazi said:


> isn't that convoy likely to be attacked by the ukranian airforce, or has the ukrainian airforce been wiped out?



Possibly attacked when it gets closer to Kyiv - right now - it is in terrority controlled by russian invaders into ukraine.


----------



## BRAVO_

did somebody discussed that if Russian tanks and other military machines stayed inside Ukraine for a longer period they will run out of fuel and would be handicapped and Russian solders could become easy target as local population is hostile non cooperative and local forces are going to get support from Neighboring countries to make this war more expensive to Russia .......

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## ZeEa5KPul

The SC said:


> For those still asking what has provoked this invasion that Russia was preparing for since 2020:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267481943156895744
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267481945249898499
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267481947896459264
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267481949813301248
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267481952069844992
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267481954708045827
> https://twitter.com/mod_russia/status/1267481956301901826


For real. Some idiots think Putin woke up with a tooth ache and did this is a pique. What actually happened was several years of his general staff warning him that Ukraine was becoming a NATO member in all but name and the situation finally reached a breaking point. It was now or never.

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## kingQamaR

The SC said:


> For those still asking what has provoked this invasion that Russia was preparing for since 2020:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267481943156895744
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267481945249898499
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267481947896459264
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267481949813301248
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267481952069844992
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267481954708045827
> https://twitter.com/mod_russia/status/1267481956301901826



The ironic thing is until now the Ukraine was a buffer zone between Russia and Nato. If Putin succeeds he will have his puppet government neighbouring Nato. Then what? Threaten Poland and tell them to leave Nato? Or invade them and threaten Germany?

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498035064743116801

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## Clutch

RescueRanger said:


> Uranian Misinformation is just as dangerous as Russian propaganda.
> 
> On the Feb 26th Azov, Ukranian soldiers said yesterday they captured an Russian Spetznaz.
> View attachment 819379
> 
> 
> Except... This man is a solider in the Azov Brigade
> 
> View attachment 819380
> 
> 
> Please be careful what you choose to retweet/share. Remember *ABC [Assume nothing, Believe no one, Check everything]*



Great post.

The 1st casualty of any war is the truth. 

So assume any news with suspicion.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498027487435100165


----------



## RescueRanger

Watch this space!!! The west are planning on installing a puppet leader in Belarus:



https://twitter.com/Tsihanouskaya



Video for further explanation:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497583706038484996

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498017240268120070

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## Avicenna

Indian Libertarian said:


> Most concerning issue is that Russia is being severely rejected and isolated. I don’t think Putin is “crazy” as the Western media has painted him up to now. However, having no off-ramps or de escalation is leading to strong rhetoric coming from Russia, especially regarding nukes.



Both parties better give each other a realistic and reasonable OFF RAMP.

Otherwise we all lose.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497995964870709254

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## jamal18

RescueRanger said:


> Watch this space!!! The west are planning on installing a puppet leader in Belarus:
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/Tsihanouskaya
> 
> 
> 
> Video for further explanation:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497583706038484996


Not for the first time!


----------



## RescueRanger

jamal18 said:


> Not for the first time!


The time is interesting.

Explosions heard on the outskirts of Kyiv.


----------



## beast89

Chechen general Tushaev is alive

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## Invicta

RescueRanger said:


> Watch this space!!! The west are planning on installing a puppet leader in Belarus:
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/Tsihanouskaya
> 
> 
> 
> Video for further explanation:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497583706038484996


Things are going great so far aren't they - some idiot in the west wanted to up the ante  . This is just diabolical - rather then ending this saga its turning into bigger saga.

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## ZeEa5KPul

kingQamaR said:


> The ironic thing is until now the Ukraine was a buffer zone between Russia and Nato. If Putin succeeds he will have his puppet government neighbouring Nato. Then what? Threaten Poland and tell them to leave Nato? Or invade them and threaten Germany?


No, Ukraine was not a buffer zone. It was a _de facto_ member of NATO and all it would have taken after a year or so was just the signature.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497890103364136968

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## khansaheeb

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498035064743116801


Everyone believes what they want to believe.


----------



## Signalian

CrazyZ said:


> I'm looking from the defensive perspective. Drones and infantry with latest gen ATGM's are taking a nasty toll on upgraded T-72's/T-90's. Pakistan will face similar threats and should be taking notes.


1. Combined arms 

2. MBTs are suited for offensive ops. Infantry equipped with variety of weapons and artillery cover is good for defense. Keep armor for counter-attack, flanks, attacking weak supply lines etc

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## ZeEa5KPul

RescueRanger said:


> Watch this space!!! The west are planning on installing a puppet leader in Belarus:
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/Tsihanouskaya
> 
> 
> 
> Video for further explanation:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497583706038484996


No! The real President of Belarus if Juan Guaido!

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## RescueRanger

Invicta said:


> Things are going great so far aren't they - some idiot in the west wanted to up the ante  . This is just diabolical - rather then ending this saga its turning into bigger saga.



Well sadly the keep creeping up the ladder of escalation:

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## R Wing

M. Sarmad said:


> I am only responsible for what I write, not for what you understand or want to understand from it.. You clearly deleted my post because of difference of opinion. And it's okay. We all have our prejudices and biases, and mods are no exception.
> 
> I, however, am unable to understand that how US/NATO imperialism and hegemonic ambitions, the root cause behind this war, is being flagged "off topic" by you
> 
> As for your pro US/NATO propaganda, as I said earlier, you are free to believe in whatever you want. I know what I am talking about.
> 
> And most importantly, US and NATO are going to support India against us no matter what we do for them. I am sure you too know it .. US appeasing is not going to help us, it never has



Thank you stating this. The mod in question shares the Western liberal democratic worldview and therefore is unable to understand what you're trying to say. I'm not sure what the difference in views are between him and a White House press correspondent. 

Intelligence is different from one's state of consciousness - that is, the ability to see power structures and imperialism for what it is.

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## RescueRanger

Signalian said:


> 1. Combined arms
> 
> 2. MBTs are suited for offensive ops. Infantry equipped with variety of weapons and artillery cover is good for defense. Keep armor for counter-attack, flanks, attacking weak supply lines etc


^ This, deployment of bulky and slow single sections in isolated long range patrols is suicidal. Russia is having to cover a very large area and their supply lines are stretched thin, this is why you are seeing the very impactful optics of scrap Russian metal littering streets and highways.


----------



## R Wing

RescueRanger said:


> Well sadly the keep creeping up the ladder of escalation:
> View attachment 819388



Should have started higher up.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497880882471849984

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497974245737050120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498030323208269827

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## Trango Towers

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497995964870709254


Freedom of speech looool

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## Avicenna

R Wing said:


> Thank you stating this. The mod in question shares the Western liberal democratic worldview and therefore is unable to understand what you're trying to say. I'm not sure what the difference in views are between him and a White House press correspondent.
> 
> Intelligence is different from one's state of consciousness - that is, the ability to see power structures and imperialism for what it is.



Alot of things have been exposed in the last few years if only people are willing to see.

The Western narrative is just too perfect to be true.

The Russians are no angels but they have their interests.

Why the double standard?

Soooo many layers to think about for all the things coming out on social media, whether propagandized lies or reality.

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## pkuser2k12



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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498036074098036739

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## RescueRanger

Trango Towers said:


> Freedom of speech looool


Its only Freedom of Speech if you say what they like to hear.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498064608585736193

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498060945070956551


----------



## Steppe Wolff

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498067929539100675

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497937237597732869

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## CrazyZ

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497974245737050120
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498030323208269827


Maybe there is truth to Ukraine being run by Neo-Nazis. Polish are very racists especially against Muslims.

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## fallschirmjager786

CrazyZ said:


> Maybe there is truth to Ukraine being run by Neo-Nazis.


News Flash, their all racists. Do you think the Russians are not???

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## lightning F57

The level of racism being shown blatantly by European news anchors, presenters, officials, is disgusting. Non European nations need to take stock of this and wake up to the reality. These nations are only friendly to their own, not if your black or any other race.

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## RescueRanger

The Interior Ministry of Ukraine has launched the following database http://200rf.com, where it publishes photos and documents of the dead and captured Russian soldiers.





__





Ищи своих







200rf.com


----------



## CrazyZ

fallschirmjager786 said:


> News Flash, their all racists. Do you think the Russians are not???


Maybe so but the Russians have large Muslim population and are more accommodating.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497967424729198598
The US in its 200 years of existence fought 209 wars.. what a tough existence..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498069910995759104

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## 8888888888888

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498015342978809860


This just means the CIA did a good job.

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## Invicta

CrazyZ said:


> Maybe there is truth to Ukraine being run by Neo-Nazis. Polish are very racists especially against Muslims.


You are not the first person who has brought this up. May I remind you that idiots/bigots/racists however you want to term them exist in all societies and cultures. This doesn't mean you paint everyone with the same brush.

Remember the contribution Poles made in Pakistans infancy. 








Polish contribution to PAF and its Air Transport Command


In 1947, when Pakistan was created as an independent country, the new government asked the British Air Force command for pointing out the most experienced and trusted pilots who would be able to...




www.thenews.com.pk





I personally work with a few Polish and Lithuanian guys and girls and they are professional and kind, and acknowledge the cultural differences between myself and them.

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## The Eagle

I am afraid if half of the war footage may turn out to be Hollywood directions. Given the history and advancement in media warfare regarding soft image and to influence the narrative, anything can happen. 

Let's all be very responsible while posting anything that says Russia Ukraine. 

Regards,

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## Pappa Alpha

R Wing said:


> Thank you stating this. The mod in question shares the Western liberal democratic worldview and therefore is unable to understand what you're trying to say. I'm not sure what the difference in views are between him and a White House press correspondent.
> 
> Intelligence is different from one's state of consciousness - that is, the ability to see power structures and imperialism for what it is.


The mod in question also stated that Iraq had a strong military before 1990 while conveniently ignoring the fact that Iran-Iraq war (a near 10 year conflict!) happened prior and most of their army was ill trained and composed of conscripts. The criteria for moderation and think tanks here seems to be time served, *logic is optional*.

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## QWECXZ

fallschirmjager786 said:


> News Flash, their all racists. Do you think the Russians are not???


Russia is more multi-cultural than Ukraine for sure. Russia has people from the Caucasus region (Azerbaijanis, Georgians, Armenians, Chechens), Tatars, Jews, and even Japanese people in the far east. 

Sergei Lavrov is of Armenian origin. Stalin was Georgian.

Yeah, sure, racism is pretty prevalent in Slavic countries, but at least Neo-Nazis are not currently part of the Russian agenda for national security. Ukraine is literally backing these Neo-Nazis and people are hailing them as "the Defenders".

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## RescueRanger

The Eagle said:


> I am afraid if half of the war footage may turn out to be Hollywood directions. Given the history and advancement in media warfare regarding soft image and to influence the narrative, anything can happen.
> 
> Let's all be very responsible while posting anything that says Russia Ukraine.
> 
> Regards,



This!


----------



## 8888888888888

Invicta said:


> Our submarines can do the same, Putin has gone full Tonto indeed.


The Russians are prepared for a nuke war, the west is probably not.

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## Invicta

8888888888888 said:


> The Russians are prepared for a nuke war, the west is probably not.


Keep comforting yourself with these thoughts - its working fine for the West so far.

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## Ali_Baba

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498060945070956551



BP has said it was going to sell out of its partnership with Gazprom. So it will be affected by this for sure.


----------



## damiendehorn2

Win or lose, watch how Russia will now be far closer to and more reliant on China. Russia also in future take every opportunity to "screw" with the west, and the US in particular.

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## RescueRanger

UAF soldiers are actively assaulting Indian and African medical students who are tying to leave the country:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498012000495931393

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## CrazyZ

Invicta said:


> You are not the first person who has brought this up. May I remind you that idiots/bigots/racists however you want to term them exist in all societies and cultures. This doesn't mean you paint everyone with the same brush.
> 
> Remember the contribution Poles made in Pakistans infancy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polish contribution to PAF and its Air Transport Command
> 
> 
> In 1947, when Pakistan was created as an independent country, the new government asked the British Air Force command for pointing out the most experienced and trusted pilots who would be able to...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thenews.com.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I personally work with a few Polish and Lithuanian guys and girls and they are professional and kind, and acknowledge the cultural differences between myself and them.


There is a lot of hypocrisy from the Poles. Refugees from Ukraine are OK but not from MENA. Participating in the invasion of Iraq is ok but Russia invading Ukraine is bad. 

The Europeans have obliterated each other numerous times in the past. It was only a matter of time before they did again. I don't know why this is so shocking to folks.

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## Meengla

ZeEa5KPul said:


> For real. Some idiots think Putin woke up with a tooth ache and did this is a pique. What actually happened was several years of his general staff warning him that Ukraine was becoming a NATO member in all but name and the situation finally reached a breaking point. It was now or never.



The stronger would always prey upon the weaker to protect their interests. USA against a 'sovereign' Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Now Russia against a 'sovereign' Ukraine. And all in between and before. Anyone with some thought of self-reflection would concede that. And, btw, same way Pakistan prevented a 'sovereign' Afghanistan under both the Soviets and the American occupations from becoming a threat to Pakistan. 
The world hides behind words like 'Nazis' or 'democratically elected' or 'sovereignty' or whatnot but the basic truth is that no power would want a hostile power next to them. We can all use some real honest introspection.

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## Trango Towers

RescueRanger said:


> UAF soldiers are actively assaulting Indian and African medical students who are tying to leave the country:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498012000495931393


Disgusting

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498056916643332109

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## Indian Libertarian

CrazyZ said:


> There is a lot of hypocrisy from the Poles. Refugees from Ukraine are OK but not from MENA. Participating in the invasion of Iraq is ok but Russia invading Ukraine is bad.
> 
> The Europeans have obliterated each other numerous times in the past. It was only a matter of time before they did again. I don't know why this is so shocking to folks.


The blatant racism being shown on woke TV and the hosts not opposing them is sickening. They’re literally broadcasting nazi propaganda. Some dude was taking about blond hair blue eye Europeans.

There won’t be much time until the accepting countries have their own problems. Their people wouldn’t want jobs to be stolen by foreigners.

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## NotSure

Based American streaming from Kiev:

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## beast89

of course memes ensued

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## damiendehorn2

When brown people fight for their country, their called terrorists but when whites fight for their country their called heroes.

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## Invicta

Just like yesterday this Italian registered ATR is flying around in circles very odd.





USAF KC Tanker probably refueling other fighters in the area. Or carrying out SIGINT on its own.




This the second KC Tanks of USAF doing the same in Poland.





And just like yesterday tonight again two C17 from RAF doing their daily supply run to Warsaw. I am still trying to locate 2-off EF2000 I picked up yesterday. Lets hope they turn their transponders ON.

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## Englishman

The Eagle said:


> I am afraid if half of the war footage may turn out to be Hollywood directions. Given the history and advancement in media warfare regarding soft image and to influence the narrative, anything can happen.
> 
> Let's all be very responsible while posting anything that says Russia Ukraine.
> 
> Regards,



Absolutely

I distinctly remember YouTube "shorts" during the most recent Israeli agresssion towards the occupied people of Palestine.

YouTube was being flooded with clips of cute girls in IDF uniform dancing around and doing cute things. Here is an example:






(Apologies if it offends you....but it's important to understand how sophisticated some nations are when it comes to this particular domain of warfare....I.e cyberspace / propaganda(

For several weeks clips such as these bombarded YouTube and trended greatly. These Israeli terrorists wanted to show the world how "sophisticated" and "European" they are whilst they defend themselves from the Muslim orcs.

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## Meengla

R Wing said:


> Thank you stating this. The mod in question shares the Western liberal democratic worldview and therefore is unable to understand what you're trying to say. I'm not sure what the difference in views are between him and a White House press correspondent.
> 
> Intelligence is different from one's state of consciousness - that is, the ability to see power structures and imperialism for what it is.



To be honest, I too think 'the Western liberal democratic' order is the way forward for humanity and is being gradually adopted by the world--by even Saudi Arabia now. But that way forward should not be through imperialistic way. But through economic and social reforms. I don't see the West as something negative. I tend to see the West as an evolved human situation minus the lingering colonial mindset. *Criticizing endless wars--spearheaded by the American Neo Cons--is not the same as criticizing the West*. I resent my tax $$ going to support a war machine which not only destroys so much in the world but also bleeds me financially: I still haven't filed my 2021 taxes because, despite paying over $16,000 in Federal and State taxes last year (plus other taxes), I will still have to pay more to the govt and a some of that money would go to support the never-ending wars and the so-called 'Veterans'. 
But that's all for another topic. Let's hope there is peace and Russia finds a way out.


----------



## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498056916643332109


*That's 2 brigades... *

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## The SC

Russian state television: Our submarines alone can fire more than 500 nuclear warheads, which is a good guarantee of destroying the United States and NATO.

The principle is: “Why do we need the world if Russia is not in it?”


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498063442313461770

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## pakpride00090

Meengla said:


> The stronger would always prey upon the weaker to protect their interests. USA against a 'sovereign' Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Now Russia against a 'sovereign' Ukraine. And all in between and before. Anyone with some thought of self-reflection would concede that. And, btw, same way Pakistan prevented a 'sovereign' Afghanistan under both the Soviets and the American occupations from becoming a threat to Pakistan.
> The world hides behind words like 'Nazis' or 'democratically elected' or 'sovereignty' or whatnot but the basic truth is that no power would want a hostile power next to them. We can all use some real honest introspection.



With all its faults , My respect for ISI has increased 10x fold. Kicked out soviets and US from Afghanistan.



Invicta said:


> You are not the first person who has brought this up. May I remind you that idiots/bigots/racists however you want to term them exist in all societies and cultures. This doesn't mean you paint everyone with the same brush.
> 
> Remember the contribution Poles made in Pakistans infancy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polish contribution to PAF and its Air Transport Command
> 
> 
> In 1947, when Pakistan was created as an independent country, the new government asked the British Air Force command for pointing out the most experienced and trusted pilots who would be able to...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thenews.com.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I personally work with a few Polish and Lithuanian guys and girls and they are professional and kind, and acknowledge the cultural differences between myself and them.



Yeah that was in the aftermath of WW2.

WW2 had humbled Europeans for few years and I think another great war is needed in Europe to humble the white race once again.

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## Brainsucker

Spetsnaz.frog said:


> Situation map update around kiev



This is my thought to make Kiev to surrender. Russian don't need to enter the city.
1. Cut the electricity
2. Cut the internet
3. Cut the water supply
4. Cut the food supply chain to the city
5. Cut the telecommunication to the city.
6. Cut the medical supply.
7. Put jammer around the city so no telecommunication device can active.
8. Then terror the nerve of the defenders to destroy their morale. Make they feel hopeless.

Look how long can they stand on their guard. I'm sure Russian know this already.

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## The SC

#Urgent: The Saudi Crown Prince affirms #Saudi Arabia's keenness on the stability of oil markets and its commitment to the OPEC + agreement.

•#Saudi Arabia rejects two requests from #America and #France to use the oil weapon against #Russia, and confirms its keenness to stabilize the oil and gas market away from political and military events in the world.


#Mohammed_bin_Salman #Riyadh

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## QWECXZ

The SC said:


> #Urgent: The Saudi Crown Prince affirms #Saudi Arabia's keenness on the stability of oil markets and its commitment to the OPEC + agreement.
> 
> •#Saudi Arabia rejects two requests from #America and #France to use the oil weapon against #Russia, and confirms its keenness to stabilize the oil and gas market away from political and military events in the world.
> 
> 
> #Mohammed_bin_Salman #Riyadh


Use oil weapon against Russia? What the actual f*ck? Russia produces 12 million barrels of oil per day.

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## Invicta

pakpride00090 said:


> Yeah that was in the aftermath of WW2.
> 
> WW2 had humbled Europeans for few years and I think another great war is needed in Europe to humble the white race once again.


Problem with another great war is that there would be nothing left to humble, neither white nor black.

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## pakpride00090

Invicta said:


> Problem with another great war is that there would be nothing left to humble, neither white nor black.



Europeans , Russians and Americans can nuke each other for all I care. 

Besides , white people have so much to lose compared to other parts of the world. The world would be better off with less white people.

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## Ali_Baba

Invicta said:


> View attachment 819396
> 
> Just like yesterday this Italian registered ATR is flying around in circles very odd.
> 
> View attachment 819397
> 
> USAF KC Tanker probably refueling other fighters in the area. Or carrying out SIGINT on its own.
> View attachment 819398
> 
> This the second KC Tanks of USAF doing the same in Poland.
> View attachment 819399
> 
> 
> And just like yesterday tonight again two C17 from RAF doing their daily supply run to Warsaw. I am still trying to locate 2-off EF2000 I picked up yesterday. Lets hope they turn their transponders ON.



Where is the ATR flying over?

The KC will be for F-35s for sure I reckon.

The C17s are earning their keep for sure right now.

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## Hassan Guy

lightning F57 said:


> The level of racism being shown blatantly by European news anchors, presenters, officials, is disgusting. Non European nations need to take stock of this and wake up to the reality. These nations are only friendly to their own, not if your black or any other race.

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## Invicta

Ali_Baba said:


> where is the ATR flying over?
> 
> the KC will be for F-35s for s


That is the French Coast


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

lightning F57 said:


> The level of racism being shown blatantly by European news anchors, presenters, officials, is disgusting. Non European nations need to take stock of this and wake up to the reality. These nations are only friendly to their own, not if your black or any other race.


You think the bananas, coconuts, and oreos will ever learn that lesson? Nah.

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## RescueRanger

Ali_Baba said:


> Where is the ATR flying over?
> 
> The KC will be for F-35s for sure I reckon.
> 
> The C17s are earning their keep for sure right now.


The ATR is part of Italian Police interdiction missions.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Invicta said:


> That is the French Coast



odd location for sure ?!?! Unrelated or searching for migrants trying to get to uk based on flight patterns.


----------



## RescueRanger

ZeEa5KPul said:


> You think the bananas, coconuts, and oreos will ever learn that lesson? Nah.


Very well said, sadly many of them live in a bubble of delusion util reality smacks them on top of the head with a baseball bat.

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## The SC

These are the only warplanes NATO can provide Ukraine with without the need to train pilots and maintenance personnel..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498043527464370180

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## Invicta

Ali_Baba said:


> odd location for sure ?!?! Unrelated or searching for migrants trying to get to uk based on flight patterns.


Thats what I am think - but that Russian ship that was impounded by the French was probably Calais.


----------



## Paul2

RescueRanger said:


> Managed to find a very good central Ukraine:
> View attachment 819366
> 
> 
> Transmission is in Ukrainian & English - Audio file included for your listening pleasure:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SndUp | Post info
> 
> 
> Record, upload, share! SndUp is a social network, for audio! We enable you to upload audio clips and share them with the world. Sharing your talent is simple!
> 
> 
> 
> sndup.net



Lima Zulu 1 - Landing zone 1? One guys is certainly not a native speaker.

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## ZeEa5KPul

The SC said:


> Russian state television: Our submarines alone can fire more than 500 nuclear warheads, which is a good guarantee of destroying the United States and NATO.
> 
> The principle is: “Why do we need the world if Russia is not in it?”
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498063442313461770







That's *exactly* my style. That's why I'm so excited about China's nuclear buildup. After all, what use is this world if China is not in it? I'm mad jealous of Russia, I truly am.

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## RescueRanger

Paul2 said:


> Lima Zulu 1 - Landing zone 1? One guys is certainly not a native speaker.


That's what I gathered too.


----------



## tower9

RescueRanger said:


> UAF soldiers are actively assaulting Indian and African medical students who are tying to leave the country:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498012000495931393


Putin wasn’t wrong about denazification



ZeEa5KPul said:


> That's *exactly* my style. That's why I'm so excited about China's nuclear buildup. After all, what use is this world if China is not in it? I'm mad jealous of Russia, I truly am.


China needs nuclear parity with the US and Russia. It’s astonishing how naive they were to take this long to build up.



Indian Libertarian said:


> The blatant racism being shown on woke TV and the hosts not opposing them is sickening. They’re literally broadcasting nazi propaganda. Some dude was taking about blond hair blue eye Europeans.
> 
> There won’t be much time until the accepting countries have their own problems. Their people wouldn’t want jobs to be stolen by foreigners.


They are only saying the quiet part out loud. We’ve always known what they thought.

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## Trango Towers

Invicta said:


> Problem with another great war is that there would be nothing left to humble, neither white nor black.


And we will be back to fighting on horseback

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## jamal18

Really interesting and informative interview with Scott Ritter.

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## dbc

RescueRanger said:


> UAF soldiers are actively assaulting Indian and African medical students who are tying to leave the country:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498012000495931393


how do you know the folks being assaulted are Indian or African?


----------



## Indian Libertarian

tower9 said:


> Putin wasn’t wrong about denazification
> 
> 
> China needs nuclear parity with the US and Russia. It’s astonishing how naive they were to take this long to build up.
> 
> 
> They are only saying the quiet part out loud. We’ve always known what they thought.


I’ve been very skeptical about the nazi stuff until now but the Bandera supporters are coming out in the open showing Azov units and xenophobia.

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## RescueRanger

dbc said:


> how do you know the folks being assaulted are Indian or African?


Because I have EYES! and can understand Hindi.



Trango Towers said:


> And we will be back to fighting on horseback


LOL, how the west romanticize warfare!

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## tower9

Indian Libertarian said:


> I’ve been very skeptical about the nazi stuff until now but the Bandera supporters are coming out in the open showing Azov units and xenophobia.


Idk how people can have any doubt when they are wearing swastikas and flying Nazi flags. Did people think they were cosplaying?

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## Paul2

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498036074098036739



The northeast will be coming back


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## pakpride00090

dbc said:


> how do you know the folks being assaulted are Indian or African?



We can understand Hindi...

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## RescueRanger

Indian Libertarian said:


> I’ve been very skeptical about the nazi stuff until now but the Bandera supporters are coming out in the open showing Azov units and xenophobia.


Sadly a lot of people got taken in with the "Aww" propaganda, which is fine the West need a sacrificial lamb to stand up to Russia and they have nominated Ukraine. But painting these thugs from AZOV as anything other than Nazi scum is delusional.

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## Trango Towers

RescueRanger said:


> Because I have EYES! and can understand Hindi.
> 
> 
> LOL, how the west romanticize warfare!


I am neither western nor a romantic...I literally mean after a Nuclear exchange we will be back to the dark ages


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## pakpride00090

tower9 said:


> Idk how people can have any doubt when they are wearing swastikas and flying Nazi flags. Did people think they were cosplaying?



Most south asians are naive unlike the chinese who know how racists all white people are.

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## Trango Towers

pakpride00090 said:


> Most south asians are naive unlike the chinese who know how racists all white people are.


Chinese are also racists

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## RescueRanger

Trango Towers said:


> I am neither western nor a romantic...I literally mean after a Nuclear exchange we will be back to the dark ages


After a nuclear exchange I will be coming back as a cockroach. Lets be realistic.

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## pakpride00090

Trango Towers said:


> I am neither western nor a romantic...I literally mean after a Nuclear exchange we will be back to the dark ages



That is a good thing. West will have most to lose.

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## RescueRanger

Trango Towers said:


> Chinese are also racists


We are all a little bit racist!

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## Indian Libertarian

tower9 said:


> Idk how people can have any doubt when they are wearing swastikas and flying Nazi flags. Did people think they were cosplaying?


No the western propaganda acted like it was Russian aggression. On Twitter all the neo-liberals try so hard to connect Russia with Nazism.

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## tower9

Indian Libertarian said:


> No the western propaganda acted like it was Russian aggression. On Twitter all the neo-liberals try so hard to connect Russia with Nazism.


That’s why I never trust the Zionist media. 90% of it are straight up lies.

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## Indian Libertarian

RescueRanger said:


> After a nuclear exchange I will be coming back as a cockroach. Lets be realistic.


Well I guess the defence companies better start planting trees and mining for rocks.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498083507381628928

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## dbc

RescueRanger said:


> Because I have EYES! and can understand Hindi.



fair enough, I couldn't make out the language. I heard a women scream and a man say something at the end.

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## RescueRanger

Indian Libertarian said:


> Well I guess the defence companies better start planting trees and mining for rocks.


Hahaha


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498082789379706880

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## K_Bin_W

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498083507381628928


Who will fly those? Need lot of training and infra.


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## pakpride00090

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498082789379706880



Wonderful news.... We inching close to kaboom of Europe.


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## Indian Libertarian

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498082789379706880


America has nukes in Turkey, seems fair.

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## Abid123

K_Bin_W said:


> Who will fly those? Need lot of training and infra.


"Ghost of Kiev" will be flying those😁

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498049230048399360

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## khansaheeb

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497890103364136968


African unity organization should be sending buses to help the black students and citizens. White privilege is sickening.

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## RescueRanger

K_Bin_W said:


> Who will fly those? Need lot of training and infra.


Oh don't worry about that, they'll just get AECOM (formerly DynCorp) to bring in instructors. Just look at the stock prices rise:

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## Indian Libertarian

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498049230048399360


Why is Western Media so late to report this stuff. I thought Russia took it many hours ago.

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## RescueRanger

Abid123 said:


> "Ghost of Kiev" will be flying those😁


Footage emerges of the Ghost of Kiev:

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498054698468659200

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## The Eagle

I have a general question for understanding and if explained well, it might help others as well.

Russia said that none should interfere.
US/EU/West etc all said that they can't intervene or send military since Ukraine isn't NATO...not their responsibility.

If EU/US are arming Ukraine, I wanted to ask isn't that interference?

Secondly, why can't other countries can arm their friends against US/EU?

You can quote and reply particular question separately.

Regards,



pakpride00090 said:


> Wonderful news.... We inching close to kaboom of Europe.



Let's not wish death for anyone.

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## RescueRanger

Indian Libertarian said:


> Why is Western Media so late to report this stuff. I thought Russia took it many hours ago.


Because it would "rock the boat". Its all hands on deck for the disinformation and psyops campaign.

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## Kraetoz

RescueRanger said:


> Because I have EYES! and can understand Hindi.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446716692353011715

Strange that you can still identify Indians with your "EYES" when Indians confuse themselves with Africans.

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## ZeEa5KPul

The Eagle said:


> I have a general question for understanding and if explained well, it might help others as well.
> 
> Russia said that none should interfere.
> US/EU/West etc all said that they can't intervene or send military since Ukraine isn't NATO...not their responsibility.
> 
> If EU/US are arming Ukraine, I wanted to ask isn't that interference?
> 
> Secondly, why can't other countries can arm their friends against US/EU?
> 
> You can quote and reply particular question separately.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> 
> Let's not wish death for anyone.


It is interference, but it's below Russia's threshold. Russia won't escalate to bombing a NATO country funneling arms like Poland, because that lands you in a nuclear war and game over. NATO can't overtly attack the Russian military for the same reason, so it's a stalemate and all that's left are these petty irritations.

Other countries could surely arm the EU/US's enemies if they're powerful enough to handle the backlash - Iran did so when NATO was in Iraq. A problem with this is that the EU/US itself is militarily stable, so other powers are limited to more covert political subversion campaigns a la Russia getting Trump elected.

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## RescueRanger

Kraetoz said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446716692353011715
> 
> Strange that you can still identify Indians with your "EYES" when Indians confuse themselves with Africans.


Lets not troll please.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498079211332018178

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## RescueRanger

ZeEa5KPul said:


> It is interference, but it's below Russia's threshold. Russia won't escalate to bombing a NATO country funneling arms like Poland, because that lands you in a nuclear war and game over. NATO can't overtly attack the Russian military for the same reason, so it's a stalemate and all that's left are these petty irritations.
> 
> Other countries could surely arm the EU/US's enemies if they're powerful enough to handle the backlash - Iran did so when NATO was in Iraq. A problem with this is that the EU/US itself is militarily stable, so other powers are limited to more covert political subversion campaigns a la Russia getting Trump elected.


This.


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## sur

Trango Towers said:


> Chinese are also racists


We are all racist in some ways. We Pakistanis have a very good dose of racism in us too.
Chinese/Asians racism is *not* of *superiority-complex type*.


The racism being talked about here is the superiority-complex type. That's the bad racism.
The type where they have impulses to negatively discriminate/show disgust towards the other "inferior" races.

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## damiendehorn2

gambit said:


> Really? ---------


Well wait and see what they will do next. You reap what you sow.


----------



## The Eagle

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498079211332018178



Any country denying entry to non-white people out of Ukraine, might actually want them being casualty of war to blame Russia later, being attacker. It will help Ukraine pro bloc/EU/US to gather sympathy & justify sanctions or war on Russia. A crazy thought based on news from Russia Ukraine War about I'll treatment of people fleeing Ukraine.

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## Abid123

RescueRanger said:


> Footage emerges of the Ghost of Kiev:

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## khansaheeb

ZeEa5KPul said:


> It is interference, but it's below Russia's threshold. Russia won't escalate to bombing a NATO country funneling arms like Poland, because that lands you in a nuclear war and game over. NATO can't overtly attack the Russian military for the same reason, so it's a stalemate and all that's left are these petty irritations.
> 
> Other countries could surely arm the EU/US's enemies if they're powerful enough to handle the backlash - Iran did so when NATO was in Iraq. A problem with this is that the EU/US itself is militarily stable, so other powers are limited to more covert political subversion campaigns a la Russia getting Trump elected.


There is no reason why NATO and the USSR can't have a limited controlled war just like India and Pakistan do. As long as the thresholds aren't pushed and the nuclear threshold isn't crossed NATO may push back Russia a little.

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## gambit

damiendehorn2 said:


> Well wait and see what they will do next. You reap what you sow.


Actually, China started the decoupling from Russia. But in the long run, it will *THEM* who will reap what they sown.

That is hilarious that my post was edited for 'insulting' other nationalities. And yet white people are freely insulted here.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498087625030254593

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## The Eagle

khansaheeb said:


> There is no reason why NATO and the USSR can't have a limited controlled war just like India and Pakistan do. As long as the thresholds aren't pushed and the nuclear threshold isn't crossed NATO may push back Russia a little.



No one can ensure to limit threshold since the madmen are having those buttons with them to press.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498079768239087624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498079770864611328

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## damiendehorn2

gambit said:


> Actually, China started the decoupling from Russia. But in the long run, it will *THEM* who will reap what they sown.
> 
> That is hilarious that my post was edited for 'insulting' other nationalities. And yet white people are freely insulted here.


🤣😁😂 Lets see, The US drowns in debt while china keeps growing.

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## The Eagle

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498087625030254593



Whether Israeli dies it truly or not but such propaganda mouthpieces will surely many others to be dragged in this war. Let Spetsnaz find by themselves.

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## Indian Libertarian

khansaheeb said:


> There is no reason why NATO and the USSR can't have a limited controlled war just like India and Pakistan do. As long as the thresholds aren't pushed and the nuclear threshold isn't crossed NATO may push back Russia a little.


Any NATO Russia conflict is going to bring large scale instability to the West. Most people don’t want to live in the specter of WW3.

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## gambit

damiendehorn2 said:


> 🤣😁😂 Lets see, The US drowns in debt while china keeps growing.


You must not have been keeping up with the news about the mounting debts in China. Supposedly several cities went bankrupt.

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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498087625030254593


Its nonsense like this that will end up leading this conflict into a protracted quagmire that will envelop all of Europe.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497851160908152834

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## Indian Libertarian

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497851160908152834


Didn’t the mayor say he’s encircled? They’re literally tripped in there. If Russia starts using thermobaric rockets the casualties will be so high.


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## ZeEa5KPul

khansaheeb said:


> There is no reason why NATO and the USSR can't have a limited controlled war just like India and Pakistan do. As long as the thresholds aren't pushed and the nuclear threshold isn't crossed NATO may push back Russia a little.


The problem with this is that NATO has conventional overmatch on Russia, so Russia will have to escalate to tactical nuclear weapons to even the difference, then NATO escalates, etc. and you see where this goes. This is greatly compounded by the fact that Russia has nowhere left to retreat to; its back is literally against the wall. This isn't the Cold War where they could squabble in Germany, NATO today is on Russia's border and threatening to expand further.

India and Pakistan's "wars" are more like ritualized performances. They've become normalized so there is no (little) chance of escalation. NATO and Russia aren't like that at all.

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## pakpride00090

gambit said:


> You must not have been keeping up with the news about the mounting debts in China. Supposedly several cities went bankrupt.



Better to get bankrupt than die by thousands via covid.

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## Indian Libertarian

Still waiting for a confirmation on those IL76s being shot down… 🥱

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## RescueRanger

The Eagle said:


> Any country denying entry to non-white people out of Ukraine, might actually want them being casualty of war to blame Russia later, being attacker. It will help Ukraine pro bloc/EU/US to gather sympathy & justify sanctions or war on Russia. A crazy thought based on news from Russia Ukraine War about I'll treatment of people fleeing Ukraine.


Sadly there has been rising xenophobia in Europe due to the migration crisis in the last 14 years. Part of me understands the need for border control, but not when there is all out war on your border and the people requesting safe harbor are genuine intl students.

It's really heartbreaking. To highlight my frustration on creating some sort of hierarchy of migration when it comes to evacuees from Ukraine, please watch this video:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497895651887271938

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497851160908152834

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## R Wing

RescueRanger said:


> ^ This, deployment of bulky and slow single sections in isolated long range patrols is suicidal. Russia is having to cover a very large area and their supply lines are stretched thin, this is why you are seeing the very impactful optics of scrap Russian metal littering streets and highways.



Where is their best equipment? 



Meengla said:


> To be honest, I too think 'the Western liberal democratic' order is the way forward for humanity and is being gradually adopted by the world--by even Saudi Arabia now. But that way forward should not be through imperialistic way. But through economic and social reforms. I don't see the West as something negative. I tend to see the West as an evolved human situation minus the lingering colonial mindset. *Criticizing endless wars--spearheaded by the American Neo Cons--is not the same as criticizing the West*. I resent my tax $$ going to support a war machine which not only destroys so much in the world but also bleeds me financially: I still haven't filed my 2021 taxes because, despite paying over $16,000 in Federal and State taxes last year (plus other taxes), I will still have to pay more to the govt and a some of that money would go to support the never-ending wars and the so-called 'Veterans'.
> But that's all for another topic. Let's hope there is peace and Russia finds a way out.



That's the entire point.

Don't forget that this 'democratic' order used colonial extractive wealth and slave labor (UK and US, respectively) to create their empires. The US had two massive oceans to its east and west and, in the past many decades at least, friendly/harmless countries to the north and south. Women and non-whites couldn't even vote till very recently. These countries had the luxury to experiment with these 'ideals.'

You CANNOT develop into a superpower or first world nation while following these. There is no example of it. Nor are they realistic when a hostile superpower is trying to destabilize you.

Sure, in a utopian way, they're great. But they just don't make sense for any country trying to earn its security. Don't forget that, even now, the US engages in morally repugnant actions that run contrary to very ideals that they stuff down others' throats - they sell billions in arms to dictatorships, they've toppled democratically elected governments in CIA-led coups to install puppets (some of whom have been exceptionally violent dictators), they continue to protect Israel as it occupies and butchers Palestinians illegally, etc. So, these ideals don't mean jack shit in the real world - only _realpolitik_ works. The rest is just for talks, and is weaponized as an imperialistic tool to justify their own hegemonic actions.

My 2c

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## beast89

RescueRanger said:


> Its nonsense like this that will end up leading this conflict into a protracted quagmire that will envelop all of Europe.


which will benefit israel.


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## RescueRanger

beast89 said:


> which will benefit israel.


It will benefit no one in the end. Europe is the regional pivot, a failing Europe will truly mean BOHICA for central Asia which will have ramifications for the entire world.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497841275537661954

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## R Wing

ZeEa5KPul said:


> It is interference, but it's below Russia's threshold. Russia won't escalate to bombing a NATO country funneling arms like Poland, because that lands you in a nuclear war and game over. NATO can't overtly attack the Russian military for the same reason, so it's a stalemate and all that's left are these petty irritations.
> 
> Other countries could surely arm the EU/US's enemies if they're powerful enough to handle the backlash - Iran did so when NATO was in Iraq. A problem with this is that the EU/US itself is militarily stable, so other powers are limited to more covert political subversion campaigns a la Russia getting Trump elected.



Yet again proving to be the most rational and wise commenter around here.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

The Eagle said:


> I have a general question for understanding and if explained well, it might help others as well.
> 
> Russia said that none should interfere.
> US/EU/West etc all said that they can't intervene or send military since Ukraine isn't NATO...not their responsibility.
> 
> If EU/US are arming Ukraine, I wanted to ask isn't that interference?
> 
> Secondly, why can't other countries can arm their friends against US/EU?
> 
> You can quote and reply particular question separately.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> 
> Let's not wish death for anyone.



World War 1 , USA even WW2 was a silent participant for majority of war, providing Material support to it's allies. Only getting involved in later stages 

It *has/had* a blooming industry which produced top level industrialization and made profits each year, USA was able to use the wealth to finance the wars for it's allies. Also Oil was first discovered in USA , so it *has/had* access to abundant oil/petrochemical resource

Now same things apply , at direct level NATO wishes to avoid direct confrontation with Russia as things can escalate quickly to Nuclear war , should Russia feels threatened or Russia could target key assets internationally for NATO , things are not same as vs Germany in WW2

Considering USA , has history of interference in Wars , for it's allies , most of time the western ones it will jump into these wars

For now they are hoping Ukraine will bog down Russia in long war , thus weakening a % of their military and also drain Russia financially

However with Russia panicking it is possible they might take out half of NATO assets with big ticket play in case they suspect NATO or F-35 is involved in dirty play

Typically *USA aviods a direct confrontation* with enemy at similar strength in last 200 years

As I said before , presently NATO is likely hoping Russia will take 30-40% of Ukraine and leave the 55% alone, they will reluctantly accept that boundry for next 20-50 years


USA , beat up Russian assets in *Libya* & *Syria*
Russia is paying back by taking *Ukraine*


Typically nations approach UN security council around 2 weeks mark after their objectives are met

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## FairAndUnbiased

Trango Towers said:


> Polish people are very racist. Won't surprise me


I now understand the Euro liberalism facade is a total lie.

They say Asian people are racist but I've never seen any beatings of Indians or Chinese in each other's countries in 2020, at most a few shops get smashed. India and Pakistan still respected the Indus water treaty during war. During the Korean War, Chinese-Korean minority was protected.

Can you imagine that Europeans would respect a treaty with a non-European country they were at war with?

It is times of crisis where real faces comes out from the mask.

Their mask slipped and we saw the real face. It hasn't changed much since 1945.

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## R Wing

khansaheeb said:


> There is no reason why NATO and the USSR can't have a limited controlled war just like India and Pakistan do. As long as the thresholds aren't pushed and the nuclear threshold isn't crossed NATO may push back Russia a little.



The reason is that Russia draws its red line very clearly and intends to act on it. I don't think the Europeans are too keen on testing where it lies. They also need to figure out another (major) gas supplier, along with the infrastructure and complications involved.

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## pakpride00090

RescueRanger said:


> Sadly there has been rising xenophobia in Europe due to the migration crisis in the last 14 years. Part of me understands the need for border control, but not when there is all out war on your border and the people requesting safe harbor are genuine intl students.
> 
> It's really heartbreaking. To highlight my frustration on creating some sort of hierarchy of migration when it comes to evacuees from Ukraine, please watch this video:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497895651887271938



Migration crises happened because NATO together with US attacked MENA. They are only to be blamed for all the they created. 

Now it is our time to sit back and enjoy the misery and future destruction of white people.

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## RescueRanger

R Wing said:


> Where is their best equipment?


It's not so much equipment, its the fact so far what we see are one or two sections in isolated pockets being blow up or targeted. War is a numbers game, the area to cover is large and war machines are fuel and logistics heavy. If news about Russians are dispatching 11 Battalions into Ukraine, that is 2 Brigades, that's when things will get serious.

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## damiendehorn2

gambit said:


> You must not have been keeping up with the news about the mounting debts in China. Supposedly several cities went bankrupt.


Still a better state then the US is in.

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## NotSure

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498083507381628928


Any sources? No, twatter is not a source.

WHO and how will fly them through all the russian airdef? And where is the big difference to european countries doing air attacks on russians? How should russia distinguish them from F-16, Eurofighters etc?

Thats the best way to start a hot shooting war with Russia up to tactical Nukes used. So i will believe it, when i see it ...


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497510160444674053

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497510164253061122

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497510165989445633

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## FuturePAF

jamal18 said:


> I believe both France and Germany were against Ukraine's admission to Nato. They are taking the fall out for America's action.
> 
> Germany has also had to cancel NordStrea2, under orders from the US.


Russia forced the issue, and the US can’t burden itself with the majority cost of providing Europe with defense when it has to think about countering China.

Tough times ahead for the people of Europe, social spending is going to get cut to pay for all the defense spending. The 300 billion euro “Global Gateway” development plan to compete against the BRI is probably going to take a big hit.

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## sur



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## khansaheeb

Ukraine has approximately 90 war planes. Russia has stated it has destroyed 31 aircraft , which means only 33% of the Ukrainian war planes have been destroyed by Russia. So where are the other 66% of the war planes?

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## Indian Libertarian

khansaheeb said:


> Ukraine has approximately 90 war planes. Russia has stated it has destroyed 31 aircraft , which means only 33% of the Ukrainian war planes have been destroyed by Russia. So where are the other 66% of the war planes?


A lot of the Ukrainian warplanes weren’t combat ready.

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## merzifonlu

Indian Libertarian said:


> A lot of the Ukrainian warplanes weren’t combat ready.


A lot of warplane on way. From EU.

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## QWECXZ

khansaheeb said:


> Ukraine has approximately 90 war planes. Russia has stated it has destroyed 31 aircraft , which means only 33% of the Ukrainian war planes have been destroyed by Russia. So where are the other 66% of the war planes?


Probably they aren't operational due to lack of spare parts or haven't been overhauled in decades. After all, Ukraine uses Soviet jet fighters and who wants to help Ukraine with the maintenance if not Russia? And maybe the Ukrainian generals think it's better not to use them until they are absolutely obliged to or have received reinforcements.

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## R Wing

CrazyZ said:


> There is a lot of hypocrisy from the Poles. Refugees from Ukraine are OK but not from MENA. Participating in the invasion of Iraq is ok but Russia invading Ukraine is bad.
> 
> The Europeans have obliterated each other numerous times in the past. It was only a matter of time before they did again. I don't know why this is so shocking to folks.



It's not just from the Poles. It's across the West.



Brainsucker said:


> This is my thought to make Kiev to surrender. Russian don't need to enter the city.
> 1. Cut the electricity
> 2. Cut the internet
> 3. Cut the water supply
> 4. Cut the food supply chain to the city
> 5. Cut the telecommunication to the city.
> 6. Cut the medical supply.
> 7. Put jammer around the city so no telecommunication device can active.
> 8. Then terror the nerve of the defenders to destroy their morale. Make they feel hopeless.
> 
> Look how long can they stand on their guard. I'm sure Russian know this already.



Putin's strategy has been interesting. 

Cutting that stuff, at least some of it, is not that difficult - especially power. Ukrainians in the capital would throw their own government out soon after.

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## RescueRanger

khansaheeb said:


> Ukraine has approximately 90 war planes. Russia has stated it has destroyed 31 aircraft , which means only 33% of the Ukrainian war planes have been destroyed by Russia. So where are the other 66% of the war planes?


On the Feb 25th these 4 UAF IL-76's left Ukrain and landed in Poland







Same Day 4 UAF AN-26 landed in Poland 





On Feb 18th 5 UAF aircraft with transponders on were seen headed toward the border with Poland:




*
My guess is some hardware was moved to Poland as a precaution. *

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## merzifonlu

QWECXZ said:


> Probably they aren't operational due to lack of spare parts or haven't been overhauled in decades. After all, Ukraine uses Soviet jet fighters and who wants to help Ukraine with the maintenance if not Russia? And maybe the Ukrainian generals think it's better not to use them until they are absolutely obliged to or have received reinforcements.


Are you joke? Among those who produced these planes were Ukrainian experts. Ukraine can easily maintenance of them. The worst for Russia is this: Turkey specializes in integrating western weapons and sensors into Russian-style aircraft. After becoming an airplane, Ukraine will never have a shortage of ammunition, sensors and spare parts. The best solution for Russia would be to declare a ceasefire immediately. Increasing the dose of violence will only mean more destruction for Russia.

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## retaxis

T


R Wing said:


> It's not just from the Poles. It's across the West.
> 
> 
> 
> Putin's strategy has been interesting.
> 
> Cutting that stuff, at least some of it, is not that difficult - especially power. Ukrainians in the capital would throw their own government out soon after.


Thats why evil white nationalists accrue massive debts in tens of trillions in america, knowing whites will be minorities in the future and will be mexicans/blacks who have to pay off the debt as majority population in the future. Evil white neo nazis happy to spend knowing it will be non whites who will have to pay it back in the future when whites are minority population in the west.

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## RescueRanger

Unconfirmed reports that the first batch of fighter jets have left Belarus for Ukraine. (Source: Whatsapp) - Not Confirmed. 
** Will update **


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Considering Ukraine had 90 Fighter Jets their ability to stop Russians in air was poor as they could not launch a decent counter to stop incursion of Russian ground troops

Germany in WW2 could not win a war with mere Rocket and fireworks and this war has also shown importance of ground troop advancement and having proper ground force

Ukraine had certain rocket tech yet they have not launched a single strike into Russia

Ukraine over dependence on their Allies on paper lead them to be not ready to defend against Russians on ground , the air force was not ready. 

F-35 has been a true stealth in battle so far no where in sight

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## pakpride00090

retaxis said:


> T
> 
> Thats why evil white nationalists accrue massive debts in tens of trillions in america, knowing whites will be minorities in the future and will be mexicans/blacks who have to pay off the debt as majority population in the future. Evil white neo nazis happy to spend knowing it will be non whites who will have to pay it back in the future when whites are minority population in the west.


Damn bro...You gave me another perspective .


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## R Wing

khansaheeb said:


> Ukraine has approximately 90 war planes. Russia has stated it has destroyed 31 aircraft , which means only 33% of the Ukrainian war planes have been destroyed by Russia. So where are the other 66% of the war planes?



And where are 33% of Russian warplanes. We've mainly heard of isolating instances. 

Wouldn't an actual blitzkrieg with devastating spec ops raids/assassinations/sabotage, heavily armed irregulars, dozens of drones and 50+ jets and helos each made the push for Kiev much more concentrated and effective? Why not start with the Dial at 10 to force a quick surrender?

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## RescueRanger

An RAF C17 left Brize Norton (UK) and is landing in Poland.

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## merzifonlu

I say to those who laugh on me: Russia can never win this war. It is currently at war with NATO de facto, though not officially. Even if China stands behind it with all its might, it cannot win. That there is no such thing. Putin better put an end to this madness before the Russian economy and army are destroyed. Unlimited ammo and fighter entry from the borders of Poland and Romania has now started. And the weapons that will enter will not be Javelin and NLAW. They were just appetizing! You'll find every sophisticated weapon you can think of there. Because in continental Europe, "Who will give more military aid to Ukraine?" the race has begun. They immediately stigmatize those who want to avoid it!

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## RescueRanger

merzifonlu said:


> I say to those who laugh on me: Russia can never win this war. It is currently at war with NATO de facto, though not officially. Even if China stands behind it with all its might, it cannot win. That there is no such thing. Putin better put an end to this madness before the Russian economy and army are destroyed. Unlimited ammo and fighter entry from the borders of Poland and Romania has now started. And the weapons that will enter will not be Javelin and NLAW. They were just appetizing! You'll find every sophisticated weapon you can think of there. Because in continental Europe, "Who will give more military aid to Ukraine?" the race has begun. They immediately stigmatize those who want to avoid it!



This is not an unorthodox assessment that much I agree with. But neither side will win this, what is happening now will reverberate for many years to come.

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## mazeto

dbc said:


> how do you know the folks being assaulted are Indian or African?


The person filming is saying in Hindi in a Northern Indian accent " see how they are beating the girls! " while the girls screams of terror is heard in the background. 
People so brutal to others during a time of their own suffering perhaps deserved it themselves

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## pakpride00090

merzifonlu said:


> I say to those who laugh on me: Russia can never win this war. It is currently at war with NATO de facto, though not officially. Even if China stands behind it with all its might, it cannot win. That there is no such thing. Putin better put an end to this madness before the Russian economy and army are destroyed. Unlimited ammo and fighter entry from the borders of Poland and Romania has now started. And the weapons that will enter will not be Javelin and NLAW. They were just appetizing! You'll find every sophisticated weapon you can think of there. Because in continental Europe, "Who will give more military aid to Ukraine?" the race has begun. They immediately stigmatize those who want to avoid it!


The more russians delay the capture of ukraine , the more it is going to difficult . This is a time sensitive manner and that window will not be open indefinitely.


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## merzifonlu

RescueRanger said:


> This is not an unorthodox assessment that much I agree with. But neither side will win this, what is happening now will reverberate for many years to come.


Actually, I said it wrong: Russia will definitely lose the war. And this will not spread for many years. It will be clear within 1 month. Don't expect something that neither side can win.

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## Kraetoz

merzifonlu said:


> I say to those who laugh on me: Russia can never win this war. It is currently at war with NATO de facto, though not officially. Even if China stands behind it with all its might, it cannot win. That there is no such thing. Putin better put an end to this madness before the Russian economy and army are destroyed. Unlimited ammo and fighter entry from the borders of Poland and Romania has now started. And the weapons that will enter will not be Javelin and NLAW. They were just appetizing! You'll find every sophisticated weapon you can think of there. Because in continental Europe, "Who will give more military aid to Ukraine?" the race has begun. They immediately stigmatize those who want to avoid it!


No one can win modern warfare. Not even NATO and it's stooges, period.

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## NotSure

NotSure said:


> Based American streaming from Kiev:


Short Version:


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## tower9

merzifonlu said:


> I say to those who laugh on me: Russia can never win this war. It is currently at war with NATO de facto, though not officially. Even if China stands behind it with all its might, it cannot win. That there is no such thing. Putin better put an end to this madness before the Russian economy and army are destroyed. Unlimited ammo and fighter entry from the borders of Poland and Romania has now started. And the weapons that will enter will not be Javelin and NLAW. They were just appetizing! You'll find every sophisticated weapon you can think of there. Because in continental Europe, "Who will give more military aid to Ukraine?" the race has begun. They immediately stigmatize those who want to avoid it!


You’re half right. Russia will be fucked. But Europe and the US will be fucked too. Europe’s energy costs will triple and their middle class will be completely destroyed. Global inflation will hit the US too and the cutting off of Russia from swift will make sure dollar dominance will decline and the US will lose its magic dollar printer and will be unable to balance its budgets because its government is deeply corrupt and irresponsible, this will lead to a collapse in military spending and social programs leading to great social unrest. 

So yes, once again the short sightedness of the Anglo zionist scum is apparent again.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Russia is in control , simple to tell it has gone into Ukraine from 3 sides and unopposed
Russia's objective was buffer state and that objective is met , Kiev will be icing on cake and it will be used as a bargin chip to negotiate acceptance of new border with Ukraine's new Head of state








The weapons coming in from Poland won't matter as the war will be over in 2-3 weeks after Russian objectives are met , with Ukraine Surrender and acceptance of Kiev Accords , anticipate Kiev will be returned to Ukraine contol from Russia to close out the deal

This is a 100 year lesson Ukraine will learn , never to poke the bear based on verbal assurances

UN security council will meet , and they will talk about Doves and peace , and Putin will reluctantly accept the proposal and NATO will suggest peace has come to Ukraine so no further action needed

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## QWECXZ

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Russia is in control , simple to tell it has gone into Ukraine from 3 sides and unopposed
> Russia's objective was buffer state and that objective is met , Kiev will be icing on cake and it will be used as a bargin chip to negotiate acceptance of new border with Ukraine's new Head of state
> 
> View attachment 819430


Honestly, if Kiev does not surrender and accept Russia's demands, particularly regarding neutrality, Russia can do much more than just the creation of a buffer state. It can turn Ukraine into a landlocked country and wait for it to become the second Moldova, or even worse. It won't take much time for the Ukrainians to change their minds then. If you look at the map, the Russian forces are already advancing fast in the Southern front, probably planning to disconnect Ukraine from the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov.

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## merzifonlu

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Russia is in control , simple to tell it has gone into Ukraine from 3 sides and unopposed
> Russia's objective was buffer state and that objective is met , Kiev will be icing on cake and it will be used as a bargin chip to negotiate acceptance of new border with Ukraine's new Head of state


In fact, the NATO side is also under control at the moment. If Russia loses control, they will respond in kind. Remember, for Russia, winning means keeping it inside. Afghanistan is before your eyes. 

Those who say that Europe's energy bill will increase will have something to say: Qatar and Algeria is under US/EU control. Do you think you can buy gas from Qatar and Algeria as easily as before while Europe is suffering from energy shortages? These countries ignore their contracts with Asia and ship all the gas to Europe. If energy prices increase, it will not only increase for Europe. Asian countries also get their share from it.

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## NotSure

QWECXZ said:


> Honestly, if Kiev does not surrender and accept Russia's demands, particularly regarding neutrality, Russia can do much more than just the creation of a buffer state. It can turn Ukraine into a landlocked country and wait for it to become the second Moldova, or even worse. It won't take much time for the Ukrainians to change their minds then.


No, thats a bait for poland and hungary. Russia can give this western part around Lvov to them and they both want that part! And both are Nato members or in other words a huge problem for the Nato.

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498077404434243591

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## khansaheeb

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Considering Ukraine had 90 Fighter Jets their ability to stop Russians in air was poor as they could not launch a decent counter to stop incursion of Russian ground troops
> 
> Germany in WW2 could not win a war with mere Rocket and fireworks and this war has also shown importance of ground troop advancement and having proper ground force
> 
> Ukraine had certain rocket tech yet they have not launched a single strike into Russia
> 
> Ukraine over dependence on their Allies on paper lead them to be not ready to defend against Russians on ground , the air force was not ready.
> 
> F-35 has been a true stealth in battle so far no where in sight


It seems to be a comedy of errors by a comedian.

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## lastofthepatriots

Ukraini jatt steals ruski BTR 



https://imgur.com/a/iYwIcgj

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## The SC

*The Russian ambassador in Cairo*: *We will stop pumping gas to Europe if sanctions are applied to Russia..*

The Russian ambassador in Cairo, Georgiy Borisenko, said that Biden's decision to impose sanctions on Russia will negatively affect the global economy.

https://gate.ahram.org.eg/News/3424500.aspx

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## Kraetoz

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498077404434243591


Where is all this heading? This is a serious inquiry. All the signs are there for a full blown world war.

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## tower9

The SC said:


> *The Russian ambassador in Cairo*: *We will stop pumping gas to Europe if sanctions are applied to Russia..*
> 
> The Russian ambassador in Cairo, Georgiy Borisenko, said that Biden's decision to impose sanctions on Russia will negatively affect the global economy.
> 
> https://gate.ahram.org.eg/News/3424500.aspx


Great news

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## Paul2

@jhungary good night, or good morning depending on where you are.

I see Russian tried to spear quite deeply to try effect encirclement of cities, then something quickly catches up to them in the middle of nowhere? Is it aviation, or mobile defence going?

Your assessment of how much forces Russia still has on staging grounds. I see there were close to no new advancements other than remaining around trying to re-stage in Belarus, and separated detachments roaming in open fields in the South, trying to do something, likely move to better, more defensible positions.


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## RescueRanger

Kraetoz said:


> Where is all this heading? This is a serious inquiry. All the signs are there for a full blown world war.


Oh I agree with you, this is proof that the negotiations broke down and both sides are leveraging their “sticks” to get the other to backdown.

The next 24 hours should be concerning for everyone.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

*Russian Demand*
> We take the 35-40% of Ukraine, give you back Kiev
> We will review who will be Ukraine Head of state
> Russian will control Kiev for 3-4 Months at least till deals are finalized

*NATO*
> Ok accepted but we will do one big hoopla move for our Pubic over some remote target
> We will also want the Ukraine head of state to be friendly to us 50%

*Ukraine Head of State*
> Out of Job
> Exiled or killed his choice (Most liked will be captured by Russia and then exiled to EU)


Media will Spin it as a win for for *Peace of World *
Refugees will return and settle on Western Front
Ukraine will get some Aid from USA or EU (Financial Aid to rebuild the western Ukraine)
Media will cry a river over Ukraine for 2-4 months and then they will forget about it

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## Paul2

Kraetoz said:


> Where is all this heading? This is a serious inquiry. All the signs are there for a full blown world war.



Last feeds say Russia still dumping its ammo on shelling, but they are no longer advancing, trying to solidify their line where they are.


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## khansaheeb

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498077404434243591


Wow, so either we see Russia back down or a face off technologies we haven't seen for some time. The game gets more even and complicated and the ball is in Russia's court. If the quantity of planes is substantial then we will know NATO is serious about helping the Ukrainians, if it is few in number then we will know they just want to add fuel to a fire just like they did in Syria and it would be obvious the the whole game is the demise of Ukraine for whatever reason. If Russia deploys the S400 and SU57s with SU35s the war will heat up more. The war will then spiral to a ceasefire or escalate to the Russians digging in for tactical warfare.

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## Meengla

QWECXZ said:


> Honestly, if Kiev does not surrender and accept Russia's demands, particularly regarding neutrality, Russia can do much more than just the creation of a buffer state. It can turn Ukraine into a landlocked country and wait for it to become the second Moldova, or even worse. It won't take much time for the Ukrainians to change their minds then. If you look at the map, the Russian forces are already advancing fast in the Southern front, probably planning to disconnect Ukraine from the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov.



A landlocked Ukraine is a distinct possibility. 
A change of the Kiev govt, if planned, was a very bad idea by Russia. Making Ukraine landlocked and occupying just enough to create a few hundred miles buffer in Eastern Ukraine while a tiny sliver of land occupied in the north close to Kiev would have been enough of 'gains' for Russia to ask for a ceasefire.
I don't think Russians had thought through enough of what they wanted out this war. The columns of Russian tanks destroyed show there wasn't enough thought given.

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## mazeto

merzifonlu said:


> In fact, the NATO side is also under control at the moment. If Russia loses control, they will respond in kind. Remember, for Russia, winning means keeping it inside. Afghanistan is before your eyes.
> 
> Those who say that Europe's energy bill will increase will have something to say: Qatar and Algeria is under US/EU control. Do you think you can buy gas from Qatar and Algeria as easily as before while Europe is suffering from energy shortages? These countries ignore their contracts with Asia and ship all the gas to Europe. If energy prices increase, it will not only increase for Europe. Asian countries also get their share from it.


If Russia is under total embargo, I can foresee them warning countries like Qatar and Algeria to stop gas supply to EU or else ballistic missiles start dropping on their gas fields. These countries then use the threats as a good excuse to either raise prices or stop supplying the EU?

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## RescueRanger

khansaheeb said:


> Wow, so either we see Russia back down or a face off technologies we haven't seen for some time. The game gets more even and complicated and the ball is in Russia's court. If the quantity of planes is substantial then we will know NATO is serious about helping the Ukrainians, if it is few in number then we will know they just want to add fuel to a fire just like they did in Syria and it would be obvious the the whole game is the demise of Ukraine for whatever reason. If Russia deploys the S400 and SU57s with SU35s the war will heat up more. The war will then spiral to a ceasefire or escalate to the Russians digging in for tactical warfare.


Well they captured Berdiansk and I’ve already shared footage of soldiers patrolling Mariupol , so then what we see right now is a lull for negotiations.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498117786161139713

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498109138362150912

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## tower9

mazeto said:


> If Russia is under total embargo, I can foresee them warning countries like Qatar and Algeria to stop gas supply to EU or else ballistic missiles start dropping on their gas fields. These countries then use the threats as a good excuse to either raise prices or stop supplying the EU?


Russia wouldn’t do that but by virtue of cutting their supply to Europe, the prices will rise.


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## thetutle

pakpride00090 said:


> Europeans , Russians and Americans can nuke each other for all I care.
> 
> Besides , white people have so much to lose compared to other parts of the world. The world would be better off with less white people.



Lol, you think white people will stay in Europe that becomes a nuclear wasteland? No they will be moving to towns and villages near you.

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## QWECXZ

thetutle said:


> Lol, you think white people will stay in Europe that becomes a nuclear wasteland? No they will be moving to towns and villages near you.


I doubt he would mind that though. Then Muslims can finally take revenge for how they have been treating refugees from war-torn Middle Eastern countries. But it will never get to that point fortunately.

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## khansaheeb

pakpride00090 said:


> The more russians delay the capture of ukraine , the more it is going to difficult . This is a time sensitive manner and that window will not be open indefinitely.


Russians could be using the Python strategy, first strike and grab the prey and then slowly constrict it until it offers no resistance and then gobble it up. But the NATO mongoose has turned up the one creature the Python is extremely wary of.


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## Kraetoz

thetutle said:


> Lol, you think white people will stay in Europe that becomes a nuclear wasteland? No they will be moving to towns and villages near you.



We will give them food, shelter and first aid. Then after some time they will kick us out of our homes and we would start rebuilding those nuclear wastelands.

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## Raja Porus

Inception-06 said:


> @Desert Fox 1 you are absence ? Lessons to learn for Pakistan, regarding convoy movement and protection of communication and logistical lines.


Sir, I qas busy somewhere else,but will try to follow the thread. Thanks.
Look how manstein has again reacted to the post🤣

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## khansaheeb

Meengla said:


> A landlocked Ukraine is a distinct possibility.
> A change of the Kiev govt, if planned, was a very bad idea by Russia. Making Ukraine landlocked and occupying just enough to create a few hundred miles buffer in Eastern Ukraine while a tiny sliver of land occupied in the north close to Kiev would have been enough of 'gains' for Russia to ask for a ceasefire.
> I don't think Russians had thought through enough of what they wanted out this war. The columns of Russian tanks destroyed show there wasn't enough thought given.


Russians could divide Ukraine into 2 and take and occupy the Eastern half up to Dnieper River from the East. That would be a far safer and achievable option and achieve their goal of having a buffer state and the rest of Ukraine under watch.

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## Raja Porus

Signalian said:


> 1. Combined arms
> 
> 2. MBTs are suited for offensive ops. Infantry equipped with variety of weapons and artillery cover is good for defense. Keep armor for counter-attack, flanks, attacking weak supply lines etc


The Soviet doctrine originally was that the airforce would clear out the major bottlenecks. After that Arty with the first wave would destroy the regions with major oppositons and finally the tanks would steam roll the area just as to cover space towards the next objectives while the second and third wave would look after the pockets left. But here the absence of Airforce is the foremost reason why russians are unable to implement what they've trained to do. Also arty is not being used to prevent collateral damage. That's why instead of being used just to cover space, russian forces are forced to fight numerous set piece battles of attrition. 
Also Ukrainian operational planners musr he given credit since they've chosen defensive positions well, kostl those with some sort of natural defensive line and luring them in fighting somewhat non-conventional battles.

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## jhungary

waz said:


> I don't understand the Russian use of heavy armour along well kept roads. They're just funnelling their forces to predetermined kill points (so many burnt out vehicles already). Mass infantry moving through the forests to take the Ukrainian anti-tank teams is what they should be aiming for. I think they're too impatient in all this, or they're running short of money for the war.



NEVER, ever, ever, and never run your armor thru the forest, or this happens






There are two things you don't run your armor button up, in urban city, and in forest area. Because you can't see. And it's actually worse in a forest because you can dig down, which mean enemy AT team are harder to see from the inside and they can hit your tank in the best spot, the belly.

Running along road in the build up area is recommended, only if you screen your flank. You need open field to run armor, the more you can see out of a tank from the inside the better. And the stuff that you cannot see from the inside will need to have infantry walking alongside, they will be your eyes and ears.

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## Indian Libertarian

Desert Fox 1 said:


> The Soviet doctrine originally was that the airforce would clear out the major bottlenecks. After that Arty with the first wave would destroy the regions with major oppositons and finally the tanks would steam roll the area just as to cover space towards the next objectives while the second and third wave would look after the pockets left. But here the absence of Airforce is the foremost reason why russians are unable to implement what they've trained to do. Also arty is not being used to prevent collateral damage. That's why instead of being used just to cover space, russian forces are forced to fight numerous set piece battles of attrition.
> Also Ukrainian operational planners musr he given credit since they've chosen defensive positions well, kostl those with some sort of natural defensive line and luring them in fighting somewhat non-conventional battles.


Russian strategy is called Mario Kart, characterized by speeding into cities and encountering stiff resistance where enemies throw bombs and rockets down at your vehicles from the windows.

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## RescueRanger

Meanwhile the propaganda is still in full swing;

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## Raja Porus

jhungary said:


> NEVER, ever, ever, and never run your armor thru the forest, or this happens
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are two things you don't run your armor button up, in urban city, and in forest area. Because you can't see. And it's actually worse in a forest because you can dig down, which mean enemy AT team are harder to see from the inside and they can hit your tank in the best spot, the belly.
> 
> Running along road in the build up area is recommended, only if you screen your flank. You need open field to run armor, the more you can see out of a tank from the inside the better. And the stuff that you cannot see from the inside will need to have infantry walking alongside, they will be your eyes and ears.


You are back after quite some time.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498112003432493063

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> My take on this...And applies to anyone, not just Germany...
> 
> The closer you are to a potential war adversary, the more you should be ready to display the Big Stick. And I believe post Cold War western Europe have been seduced by wealth, granted generated by themselves, into believing that disputes can be resolved by small sticks. The US is strong enough to stand on its own and maybe NATO is dated. But if not NATO, or even do away with NATO, a mutual defense alliance in the mold of NATO is inevitable. The argument that Poutine was somehow 'pushed' into this war because all he wanted is a neutral Ukraine is ludicrous. There is no such thing as neutrality and the idea of a 'legal' neutral status is a soothing fiction. A sugar pill that everyone is willing to take even though they know it is useless. I said in this thread earlier that there are two types of club membership: explicit and implicit. Those who swallowed that sugar pill of legal neutrality are implicit NATO members and Poutine knows it.



This explicitly means two things. 

1.) Everybody need an alliance. You go neutral, you are the odd man out.
2.) Appeasement does not work.

Set aside Putin narrative for war (I keep telling people this war is not about Ukraine, nobody cares...anyway) what Putin want is not what Putin want, he want to stay on top of things, he wanted to be in control, but that is one thing he can control people within his border, it is another thing he can control the action outside his border, you can say this is where is insecurity come from, while we all accept the fact that people have independent thinking. He can't. This is not about ego, this is not about what other people do, this, the entire wat, is about CONTROL. 

Things is when you ignore other people will and try to control them, they, well, fight back. I sincerely think Putin thought all these people will just drop their arms and go home when he tell them to. Otherwise there are no reasonable explanation that he would actually start this war. This is a zero gain war, basically, in specific term, even Putin win this war, he will lost the batter against NATO, you don't even need a general or half competent politician to see that.

As for Ukraine, Ukraine was a threat to Russia (At least in Putin Mind) is because they are neutral. He can take either they are with them, or they are against them. But neutral give Putin a extra layer of uncertainty, will they turn? will they remain? What will they do? All these question is what playing trick in his mind, not knowing is actually worse then they are hostile. 

I don't know if that make sense to you....

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## Indian Libertarian

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498112003432493063


They say every day is a crucial period but nothing happens.


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## RescueRanger

It would appear the fighter jets being supplied to Ukraine under the EFP will be Slovakian Mig-29’s.

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## khansaheeb

Satellite images show more than three-mile-long Russian military column on roadway to Kyiv


The two sides agree to meet at the Belarus border Monday, Ukrainian President Zelensky's office says, as Russian President Putin put nuclear forces on alert. Follow here for live news updates from the ground in Ukraine.




www.cnn.com




Mayor of southern Ukrainian city says Russians have taken control​From CNN's Tim Lister in Kyiv and Olya Voinovich

Oleksandr Svidlo, the acting mayor of Berdyansk on Ukraine's southern coast, has said that Russian forces have entered and taken control of the city.
Berdyansk, which has a small naval base, has a population of about 100,000.
Svidlo posted a message to the city's residents on his Facebook page Sunday which said, "A few hours ago, you and I witnessed how heavy military equipment and armed soldiers entered the city and began advancing throughout our hometown. As soon as I learned about that, I tried to inform all the residents of the city so that you have the opportunity to hide in shelters."
*Svidlo continued:* "Some time ago, armed soldiers entered the executive committee building and introduced themselves as soldiers of the Russian army, they informed us that all administrative buildings were under their control and that they were taking control of the executive committee building."
Svidlo said that officials were asked to continue working, "but under the control of armed men. I consider this proposal unacceptable, so we, as all members of the operational headquarters, left the building of the executive committee."
Svidlo ended his post, saying, "Today Berdyansk was on the line of fire. I don't know what tomorrow will be like, but I think tonight will be very, very hard."

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## The SC

Russia reported the destruction of an unspecified number of Ukrainian MiG-29s at the Ivano-Frankivsk airstrip on Saturday. Five MiG-29 destroyers, Ukraine's most advanced aircraft, can be counted in a video released by the Russian Defense Ministry..The authenticity of the video could not be confirmed.


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## RescueRanger

khansaheeb said:


> Satellite images show more than three-mile-long Russian military column on roadway to Kyiv
> 
> 
> The two sides agree to meet at the Belarus border Monday, Ukrainian President Zelensky's office says, as Russian President Putin put nuclear forces on alert. Follow here for live news updates from the ground in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mayor of southern Ukrainian city says Russians have taken control​From CNN's Tim Lister in Kyiv and Olya Voinovich
> 
> Oleksandr Svidlo, the acting mayor of Berdyansk on Ukraine's southern coast, has said that Russian forces have entered and taken control of the city.
> Berdyansk, which has a small naval base, has a population of about 100,000.
> Svidlo posted a message to the city's residents on his Facebook page Sunday which said, "A few hours ago, you and I witnessed how heavy military equipment and armed soldiers entered the city and began advancing throughout our hometown. As soon as I learned about that, I tried to inform all the residents of the city so that you have the opportunity to hide in shelters."
> *Svidlo continued:* "Some time ago, armed soldiers entered the executive committee building and introduced themselves as soldiers of the Russian army, they informed us that all administrative buildings were under their control and that they were taking control of the executive committee building."
> Svidlo said that officials were asked to continue working, "but under the control of armed men. I consider this proposal unacceptable, so we, as all members of the operational headquarters, left the building of the executive committee."
> Svidlo ended his post, saying, "Today Berdyansk was on the line of fire. I don't know what tomorrow will be like, but I think tonight will be very, very hard."


It fell into Russian Control at Lunch time yesterday local time , just not reported by so called “credible” sources because unless you are a sheep or are a Russian shill.

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## Stealth



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## AZMwi

One thing is certain. The west has almost won the propaganda war. The twitter handles I am seeing on this forum are mainly european controlled. The social media giants have blocked russian handles/pages. These are too many fake news circulating and unfortunately some PDF members are sharing these tweets/news without any verification. 
This war has at least made one thing clear. The west controls everything. These so called social media giants, news channels etc are controlled by the west.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> @jhungary good night, or good morning depending on where you are.
> 
> I see Russian tried to spear quite deeply to try effect encirclement of cities, then something quickly catches up to them in the middle of nowhere? Is it aviation, or mobile defence going?
> 
> Your assessment of how much forces Russia still has on staging grounds. I see there were close to no new advancements other than remaining around trying to re-stage in Belarus, and separated detachments roaming in open fields in the South, trying to do something, likely move to better, more defensible positions.


I would say if the TASS report I saw is correct, Russia is losing too many equipment already. (about 5000 soldier lost and 150 tanks and some 25 fighters). Remember the battle started when they split up, and conventional number for combat/support force is 1/3 (ever frontline soldier have 3 support personnel) so we can deduce the actual combat strength is somewhere between 60000 to 70000, so losing about 5000 soldier is reaching the 1/10 level. Plus this is day 5 now, supplies would have run low. The map I saw today and yesterday did not change much (if at all) which mean their initial wave is stalled. I would probably hold or pull back to regroup, which is what this "peacetalk" coming from, I don't believe the peace talk is genuine, they are just buying time to reset the battleplan, because they had lost the momentum to the Ukrainian. 

They need to basically restart their battleplan, the old one is not working for them. they need a change.

And I don't think Ukrainian will use mobile defence, that require training and drill, and consider TDF are not at all a sophisticated

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## Indian Libertarian

AZMwi said:


> One thing is certain. The west has almost won the propaganda war. The twitter handles I am seeing on this forum are mainly european controlled. The social media giants have blocked russian handles/pages. These are too many fake news circulating and unfortunately some PDF members are sharing these tweets/news without any verification.
> This war has at least made one thing clear. The west controls everything. These so called social media giants, news channels etc are controlled by the west.


The ground war is not important in the 21st century as much as the information war. I don’t think the West would’ve put as many sanctions if not for the propaganda. The Ukrainians knew they had to fabricate and fake events to get Western support.

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## RescueRanger

AZMwi said:


> One thing is certain. The west has almost won the propaganda war. The twitter handles I am seeing on this forum are mainly european controlled. The social media giants have blocked russian handles/pages. These are too many fake news circulating and unfortunately some PDF members are sharing these tweets/news without any verification.
> This war has at least made one thing clear. The west controls everything. These so called social media giants, news channels etc are controlled by the west.


Well that’s what happens when you don’t control the info sphere.

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## Pappa Alpha

Someone should update the doomsday clock.

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## Indian Libertarian

RescueRanger said:


> Well that’s what happens when you don’t control the info sphere.


I’m surprised by that because people usually credit Russia as being very good with psyops, like all the west was saying that Russian media influenced 2016 election.

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## RescueRanger

Indian Libertarian said:


> I’m surprised by that because people usually credit Russia as being very good with psyops, like all the west was saying that Russian media influenced 2016 election.


Over confidence is a very bad thing.

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## PakAlp

AZMwi said:


> One thing is certain. The west has almost won the propaganda war. The twitter handles I am seeing on this forum are mainly european controlled. The social media giants have blocked russian handles/pages. These are too many fake news circulating and unfortunately some PDF members are sharing these tweets/news without any verification.
> This war has at least made one thing clear. The west controls everything. These so called social media giants, news channels etc are controlled by the west.



The biggest propaganda tool is the TV/Media which is controlled by the west. We all know this but its how its used to change your mindset so majority will fall for their propaganda.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> If he will return Outer Northeast. Otherwise, he will need really to be ready to crawl in front of Xi



Nah, not gonna happen, Russia will win, there are not much of a fight, they will probably lose the initial contact, but they can just call another group. I can't see how Ukraine not crumble under this pressure. As my assessment said, Ukraine probably have 10% chance to come out of this war winning. 

The problem is, even if Russia win, they still lost. Because the price to win is making them a pariah, and Central Asian country may shift to China even if Russia did not. NATO lost nothing in Ukraine (They were never theirs) but will probably gain Sweden and Finland or even Bosnia and Georgia as a member (Both Bosnia and Georgia are in latter stage of NATO membership application than Ukraine) . That creeps into Russia even more.

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## RescueRanger

PakAlp said:


> The biggest propaganda tool is the TV/Media which is controlled by the west. We all know this but its how its used to change your mindset so majority will fall for their propaganda.


More than Television, the younger consumers and target Audience use social media, if you are able to develop a convincing enough narrative and leverage it to garner support for your cause, it can spread like wildfire faster than news on print or TV/Radio ever could. 

That’s what happened here, must admit, well played by the CIA. #GG

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## Indian Libertarian

jhungary said:


> Nah, not gonna happen, Russia will win, there are not much of a fight, they will probably lose the initial contact, but they can just call another group. I can't see how Ukraine not crumble under this pressure. As my assessment said, Ukraine probably have 10% chance to come out of this war winning.
> 
> The problem is, even if Russia win, they still lost. Because the price to win is making them a pariah, and Central Asian country may shift to China even if Russia did not. NATO lost nothing in Ukraine (They were never theirs) but will probably gain Sweden and Finland or even Bosnia and Georgia as a member (Both Bosnia and Georgia are in latter stage of NATO membership application than Ukraine) . That creeps into Russia even more.


Wonder if the sanctions will ever be dropped…Russia might become an Iran or North Korea.


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## jhungary

A1Kaid said:


> As far as I know they first wave of soldiers they've sent to Ukraine are mostly conscripts, Chechen paramilitary, and some conventional forces and they're only using 1/3 of the 100k-130k soldiers they have ready to go.


It wouldn't matter if they are trained to the same regime.

It's like saying Puerto Rican or Samoan soldier in the US Army are second rated....

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498002914362728455
I’m surprised they didn’t include nappies and a kitchen sink.


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## jaybird

Indian Libertarian said:


> I’m surprised by that because people usually credit Russia as being very good with psyops, like all the west was saying that Russian media influenced 2016 election.


Russian are very good with psyops, but you need platforms to do that. The west control all the news outlet and social media around the world. And they just shut down or block all the Pro Russian media and there is nothing Russia can do about it. Russian don't even have a voice with their psyops now.

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## Pappa Alpha

The EU should worry if Putin achieves whatever he is trying to achieve. The EU should be terrified if he fails on the first try.


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## Mustang125

Kraetoz said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446716692353011715
> 
> Strange that you can still identify Indians with your "EYES" when Indians confuse themselves with Africans.


Wtf “Abhilash” himself looks African lmao

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## RescueRanger

Meanwhile:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498084587611865090

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## lastofthepatriots

jhungary said:


> Nah, not gonna happen, Russia will win, there are not much of a fight, they will probably lose the initial contact, but they can just call another group. I can't see how Ukraine not crumble under this pressure. As my assessment said, Ukraine probably have 10% chance to come out of this war winning.
> 
> The problem is, even if Russia win, they still lost. Because the price to win is making them a pariah, and Central Asian country may shift to China even if Russia did not. NATO lost nothing in Ukraine (They were never theirs) but will probably gain Sweden and Finland or even Bosnia and Georgia as a member (Both Bosnia and Georgia are in latter stage of NATO membership application than Ukraine) . That creeps into Russia even more.



Ukrainians put up an insurgency after Stalin took control for 10 years. A diet of potatoes and vodka keeps the gas tank going apparently.


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## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> This explicitly means two things.
> 
> 1.) Everybody need an alliance. You go neutral, you are the odd man out.
> 2.) Appeasement does not work.
> 
> Set aside Putin narrative for war (I keep telling people this war is not about Ukraine, nobody cares...anyway) what Putin want is not what Putin want, he want to stay on top of things, he wanted to be in control, but that is one thing he can control people within his border, it is another thing he can control the action outside his border, you can say this is where is insecurity come from, while we all accept the fact that people have independent thinking. He can't. This is not about ego, this is not about what other people do, this, the entire wat, is about CONTROL.
> 
> Things is when you ignore other people will and try to control them, they, well, fight back. I sincerely think Putin thought all these people will just drop their arms and go home when he tell them to. Otherwise there are no reasonable explanation that he would actually start this war. This is a zero gain war, basically, in specific term, even Putin win this war, he will lost the batter against NATO, you don't even need a general or half competent politician to see that.
> 
> As for Ukraine, Ukraine was a threat to Russia (At least in Putin Mind) is because they are neutral. He can take either they are with them, or they are against them. But neutral give Putin a extra layer of uncertainty, will they turn? will they remain? What will they do? All these question is what playing trick in his mind, not knowing is actually worse then they are hostile.
> 
> I don't know if that make sense to you....


If that was the case Russia wouldn't have sent in an army of 200K + to invade Ukraine and blast them with cruise missiles , thermobarbaric bombs etc-"I sincerely think Putin thought all these people will just drop their arms and go home when he tell them to. "


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## sur

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498109138362150912


Translation by someone in the comment:

"*7.30 this morning I got a call from the commander of a Russian battalion, offering to keep all the infrastructure intact and help maintain order in the city without any impact on the civilians, or face an assault on the city. I agreed.*"




Pappa Alpha said:


> Someone should update the doomsday clock.


It's set at around year ~2250. So I am relaxed. No nuclear war is going to end the world.

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## lastofthepatriots

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498002914362728455
> I’m surprised they didn’t include nappies and a kitchen sink.



IKEA might donate the kitchen sinks.

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## Spetsnaz.frog

Brainsucker said:


> This is my thought to make Kiev to surrender. Russian don't need to enter the city.
> 1. Cut the electricity
> 2. Cut the internet
> 3. Cut the water supply
> 4. Cut the food supply chain to the city
> 5. Cut the telecommunication to the city.
> 6. Cut the medical supply.
> 7. Put jammer around the city so no telecommunication device can active.
> 8. Then terror the nerve of the defenders to destroy their morale. Make they feel hopeless.
> 
> Look how long can they stand on their guard. I'm sure Russian know this already.



We are still withholding firepower and that kind of tactics, I believe this is because we are trying to limit the civilian causalities. But soon we won't have any options left, because this will result in huge losses of military personal. I hope Ukrainian government will change it mind soon.

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## untitled

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498077404434243591


Most likely surplus MiGs and Sukhois , at least at first
Should not be expecting F-16s and AMXs

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## Spetsnaz.frog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498054891981389828

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497998296056569863

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## jaybird

If the nato and the U.S keep moving weapons in Ukraine. Russian could also screw the west with weapon proliferation all over the world to countries that are unfriendly to the west as well. Both side will get hurt and the world just became a much more dangerous place from now on.

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## Spetsnaz.frog

Moral is high


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498006542838386694

Kyiv is not completely surrounded yet. A major Russian push from the south towards the north is still needed, there are still strategic locations in the surroundings of Kyiv that need to be taken before we can speak about 'surrounding'. Process of Russian Army is steadily.

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## Indian Libertarian

untitled said:


> Most likely surplus MiGs and Sukhois , at least at first
> Should not be expecting F-16s and AMXs


If they do begin bringing in F16s with foreign pilots under UKR flag, do you think that would be an act of war?

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## RescueRanger

untitled said:


> Most likely surplus MiGs and Sukhois ... at least at first


It will only be soviet kit because they need kit UAF pilots can just jump in and fly. 

So that will be Mig-29’s from Slovakia, Bulgaria and Poland.


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## Spetsnaz.frog

Because we are russians


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497955463740239872

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## RescueRanger

Indian Libertarian said:


> If they do begin bringing in F16s with foreign pilots under UKR flag, do you think that would be an act of war?


Pilots can’t fly f-16s and there is that issue of EULA approval from the US Congress.

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## jhungary

Signalian said:


> When League of Nations failed in preventing WW2, then UN should be disbanded too, as it is unable to prevent wars from ‘45 till now.


You need an organisation with teeth. 

UN cannot work because you have 2 fractions that hold powers and UN Charter is assuming that these 2 fraction (Russia and China on one, US, UK and France on the other) will not abuse their power. Which is a non-starter to begin with.

Unless UN can function with "majority" and not power of veto, it will remain useless in the foreseeable future.

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## untitled

Indian Libertarian said:


> If they do begin bringing in F16s with foreign pilots under UKR flag, do you think that would be an act of war?


Overtly supplying your enemy is an act of war. During the Afghan war the Soviets did try to bomb Pakistani villages


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## siegecrossbow

RescueRanger said:


> This is not an unorthodox assessment that much I agree with. But neither side will win this, what is happening now will reverberate for many years to come.



Europe is finished… all the money that is needed to reinvigorate the economy will go into rearmament.

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## khansaheeb

jaybird said:


> If the nato and the U.S keep moving weapons in Ukraine. Russian could also screw the west with weapon proliferation all over the world to countries that are unfriendly to the west as well. Both side will get hurt and the world just became a much more dangerous place from now on.


I am sure US and NATO have contingencies for that too. The only nation the Zions in the US really care about is Israel, that is their heart and mind of their whole policies and strategies.

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## untitled

RescueRanger said:


> Pilots can’t fly f-16s and there is that issue of EULA approval from the US Congress.


Civilian contractors?

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## Raja Porus

The major reason why Russian invasion is failing is because of the lack of artillery support. The whole Russian land nased operations revolves around attrition to enemy by arty and preservation of own forces.

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## RescueRanger

untitled said:


> Civilian contractors?


Illegal under act of war. Providing equipment is allowed providing personnel is an act of aggression.

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## gambit

jhungary said:


> This explicitly means two things.
> 
> *1.) Everybody need an alliance. You go neutral, you are the odd man out.
> 2.) Appeasement does not work.*
> 
> Set aside Putin narrative for war (I keep telling people this war is not about Ukraine, nobody cares...anyway) what Putin want is not what Putin want, he want to stay on top of things, he wanted to be in control, but that is one thing he can control people within his border, it is another thing he can control the action outside his border, you can say this is where is insecurity come from, while we all accept the fact that people have independent thinking. He can't. This is not about ego, this is not about what other people do, this, the entire wat, is about CONTROL.
> 
> Things is when you ignore other people will and try to control them, they, well, fight back. I sincerely think Putin thought all these people will just drop their arms and go home when he tell them to. Otherwise there are no reasonable explanation that he would actually start this war. This is a zero gain war, basically, in specific term, even Putin win this war, he will lost the batter against NATO, you don't even need a general or half competent politician to see that.
> 
> As for Ukraine, Ukraine was a threat to Russia (At least in Putin Mind) is because they are neutral. He can take either they are with them, or they are against them. But neutral give Putin a extra layer of uncertainty, will they turn? will they remain? What will they do? All these question is what playing trick in his mind, not knowing is actually worse then they are hostile.
> 
> *I don't know if that make sense to you....*


I get what you said about Poutine wanting to control.

Anyway...What I do not get is why people, from ordinary to the pols, do not get *no. 1* *and 2*. Often I ask myself: Am I too old? But no, that is not it. Many of our political class are as old as I am or older, and lived thru the dive-under-the-table exercise Cold War yrs. I would have thought that yrs plus experience equals cynicism. But what really stuck in my craw is no. 2: *Appeasement does not work*. Why do people persists in believing the opposite? How do such weak people got elected?

What I said about club membership being explicit and implicit, I learned from a US Army 1SG, or 'First Shirt' as we AF call them, when I passed thru Baumholder back in '87. In our conversation, he also added that a country maybe neutral, but implicitly allied with another country and covertly working inside that alliance. I wonder if that is what Poutine worried about, that while NATO stamped 'Rejected' on Ukraine's application, the fact that Ukraine did expressed interest opened the door for that covert alliance, or at least unlocked the door. In his KGB-minded world, the unofficial realm is where the work get done. A long time ago, I read that according to a Congressional staffer, many deals were made by the urinals, and I have no doubt about that.


----------



## Bleek

jaybird said:


> Russian are very good with psyops, but you need platforms to do that. The west control all the news outlet and social media around the world. And they just shut down or block all the Pro Russian media and there is nothing Russia can do about it. Russian don't even have a voice with their psyops now.


Social media? 

Twitter, Instagram, etc, can be powerful.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498138386422509569








Bolsonaro won't condemn Putin, says Brazil will remain neutral over invasion


Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro on Sunday declined to condemn Russian President Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine, while departing from his government's official stance at the United Nations to say Brazil would remain neutral.




www.reuters.com


----------



## Indian Libertarian

untitled said:


> Overtly supplying your enemy is an act of war. During the Afghan war the Soviets did try to bomb Pakistani villages


Really the only time I’ve heard of this being done is when Soviet pilots flew Chinese & North Korean MiGs during the Korean War. I think they shot down some American pilots.



Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498138386422509569
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bolsonaro won't condemn Putin, says Brazil will remain neutral over invasion
> 
> 
> Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro on Sunday declined to condemn Russian President Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine, while departing from his government's official stance at the United Nations to say Brazil would remain neutral.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com


That clearly contradicts what their position was at the UNSC. I thought Brazil condemned?


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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498139101165506566


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## PakAlp

RescueRanger said:


> More than Television, the younger consumers and target Audience use social media, if you are able to develop a convincing enough narrative and leverage it to garner support for your cause, it can spread like wildfire faster than news on print or TV/Radio ever could.
> 
> That’s what happened here, must admit, well played by the CIA. #GG



And the counter narrative force is like 10%. The anti Usa/nato forces failed to deliver on propaganda warfare, the west controls through movies, TV, social media. This is how Middleeast was destroyed and the governments had no answer.

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## Nomad40

Th


Desert Fox 1 said:


> The major reason why Russian invasion is failing is because of the lack of artillery support. The whole Russian land nased operations revolves around attrition to enemy by arty and preservation of own forces.


Their doctrine is also based on Tactical nukes, hence their operational tactics, training and so on. I firmly believe that the Russians have not barraged to their fullest capacity (as mentioned).

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## Bleek

untitled said:


> Overtly supplying your enemy is an act of war. During the Afghan war the Soviets did try to bomb Pakistani villages


Well they are sending fighter jets, what about "volunteer" pilots?

American and British special forces veterans are supposedly going to enter the fight in Ukraine, couldn't the pilots?


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## RescueRanger

I’ll just park this tweet here as a bitter pill for some:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498027108123172870

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## Nomad40

There are rumors of 11 Russian transport ships with a battalion each to join the war effort and Belarussian paratroopers but take this with a Spoon full of salt as credibility is almost non existent.

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## Awan68

RescueRanger said:


> Unconfirmed reports that the first batch of fighter jets have left Belarus for Ukraine. (Source: Whatsapp) - Not Confirmed.
> ** Will update **


Have left Belarus? are u okay?

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## siegecrossbow

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498138386422509569
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bolsonaro won't condemn Putin, says Brazil will remain neutral over invasion
> 
> 
> Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro on Sunday declined to condemn Russian President Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine, while departing from his government's official stance at the United Nations to say Brazil would remain neutral.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com



Are there Brazilian students in Ukraine? If so they better take cover…

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## Raja Porus

Nomad40 said:


> Th
> 
> Their doctrine is also based on Tactical nukes, hence their operational tactics, training and so on. I firmly believe that the Russians have not barraged to their fullest capacity (as mentioned).


This lack of arty support should've been compensated for by use of Airforce, but even that is not being done. The air is still contested. I don't know why russians are reluctant to employ their airforce and the small number of RuAF being used is hampered by the lack of AEWACs. Due to this Russian ground forces are being forced to fight set piece battles.

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## Spetsnaz.frog

Desert Fox 1 said:


> The major reason why Russian invasion is failing is because of the lack of artillery support. The whole Russian land nased operations revolves around attrition to enemy by arty and preservation of own forces.



Failing? It’s only a mere 4 days. Let's break it down a little bit

USA took 300.000 soldiers to Iraq-- a country considerably smaller than Ukraine, and not nearly as densely populated. It took the US 3 weeks to take Iraq. Iraq was getting 0 outside support and had no intelligence capability nor was Iraq being fed intelligence around the clock.

Ukraine, by contrast, has full intel around the clock from the entire NATO, is armed and is still being armed by NATO, is very densely populated, much larger and Russia has only about 30-40k troops inside of Ukraine at the moment. Russia is moving quickly, while doing an outstanding job at avoiding civilian casualties in an invasion of a country this large and majority of Ukraine's forces using cities as strategic assets. From a military perspective, Russia is still employing a minimum of its capability in terms of manpower & especially, firepower. Russia is using very simple weaponry & used nothing it has developed in the last 20 years -- except Kalibr. No evidence of combat drones, loitering munitions, hypersonic missiles, EW, or widespread airstrikes. This is a fraction of what RUS uses in Syria Casualties, a realistic estimate which is still likely inflated if considered for Russian forces on their own -- is from the British MOD, which estimates 400 Russian losses. This is likely accurate IF combined with forces from LPR and DPR.

The most contrasting thing is this: the US was not worried about civilian casualties, they were simply collateral-- and it still took them 3 weeks. Casulties: This is from 2008, number is much higher these days Russia's invasion of Ukraine has only just started, and that is in context of timeline -- and also capability employed. Russia is moving much faster through densely populated land, with 7x less manpower being used.


And yet we are failing?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498119251672059909

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## AZMwi

RescueRanger said:


> Well that’s what happens when you don’t control the info sphere.


well honestly due to this new world order no one can except the west. the western colonial powers have made sure of it. the zionists control every aspect of our lives.


----------



## Nomad40

Desert Fox 1 said:


> This lack of arty support should've been compensated for by use of Airforce, but even that is not being done. The air is still contested. I don't know why russians are reluctant to employ their airforce and the small number of RuAF being used is hampered by the lack of AEWACs. Due to this Russian ground forces are being forced to fight set piece battles.


This has also baffled me, I was expecting a complex set of attacks but instead frog foots are spraying here and there. Putin has seriously miscalculated or his military advisors have stood him up, even though I am glad that the Ruaf has not been used to its full extent and human life should be protected but I am certainly curious as to why this Invasion/war is being fought the way it is.

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## Spetsnaz.frog

Nomad40 said:


> This has also baffled me, I was expecting a complex set of attacks but instead frog foots are spraying here and there. Putin has seriously miscalculated or his military advisors have stood him up, even though I am glad that the Ruaf has not been used to its full extent and human life should be protected but I am certainly curious as to why this Invasion/war is being fought the way it is.



Civilian casualties

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## RescueRanger

Nomad40 said:


> There are rumors of 11 Russian transport ships with a battalion each to join the war effort and Belarussian paratroopers but take this with a Spoon full of salt as credibility is almost non existent.


Don’t believe anything coming out of Ukraine.

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## AZMwi

NATO has become a huge danger for the world peace. Its arrogance and hypocrisy has turned the UN into another league of nations long ago.

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## RescueRanger

AZMwi said:


> well honestly due to this new world order no one can except the west. the western colonial powers have made sure of it. the zionists control every aspect of our lives.


Just go off the grid and live like good old Bert Gummer. 🙂



Awan68 said:


> Have left Belarus? are u okay?


I’m only posting what is sent to me (forwarded as received) perhaps reading is difficult for you.


----------



## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> If that was the case Russia wouldn't have sent in an army of 200K + to invade Ukraine and blast them with cruise missiles , thermobarbaric bombs etc-"I sincerely think Putin thought all these people will just drop their arms and go home when he tell them to. "


You should think of it the other way around. 

If Putin want war, and no mercy, why not send in the entire might of the reserve force? 200,000 men is peanut to them. 

Don't forget the tradition Soviet Doctrine Russia is using is mass their armor and roll them over with numeric superiority, this was NOT done in this case, but rather they make a more "American" approach on the issue.

And if you have listen to Putin Casus Belli. It's quite obvious from the get go he is going after the regime, that's why he split his force and taken 3 Strategic objective at once, those 3 prong are surgical, they aren't there to fight a conventional war.

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## Hamartia Antidote

khansaheeb said:


> What are the Ukrainians going to do with NATO aircraft when they have no landing strips to land them on?



for supplies they land in the grass

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## jhungary

lastofthepatriots said:


> Ukrainians put up an insurgency after Stalin took control for 10 years. A diet of potatoes and vodka keeps the gas tank going apparently.


Well, they will probably last longer if EU is behind them backing them with weapon and money. 

This is all insurgency is about.

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## AZMwi

RescueRanger said:


> Just go off the grid and live like good old Bert Gummer. 🙂


its gonna happen sooner than u think. with the nukes and everything this whole world will revert back to stone age.

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## Spetsnaz.frog

Awan68 said:


> Have left Belarus? are u okay?



To attack ukraine

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## RescueRanger

AZMwi said:


> its gonna happen sooner than u think. with the nukes and everything this whole world will revert back to stone age.


If the nukes start flying, take it from someone who’s made a living teaching survival skills. “we’re all fucked”.

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## Stealth

I am thinking what Putin is thinking …

Can’t see back.. move fwd …. no
Option left…

From his angle, he has to win the war by hook or by crook… and Its pretty much evident western world sucessfully dominating over the media warfare just because Putin and his forces unable to show any constructive Ukraine destruction imagers …

For putin, again he has to win else the consequences of loosing the battle (100 VS 1 realisticus) have serious consequences not only for Russia but also for China… China and Russian, these two are the ones who have capability and capacity to challenge western world. In case of defeat, Not only Russia perhaps China will also lose many things in a bigger picture…

West trying best to push provoke Putin @ some non-Conv side however, Putin forces strictly avoiding civlian casualities and colleteral…

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## Nomad40

Awan68 said:


> Have left Belarus? are u okay?


There was a video showing planes flying in a slavic country other then Ukraine, seemed BS for many reasons.


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## AZMwi

RescueRanger said:


> If the nukes start flying, take it from someone who’s made a living teaching survival skills. “we’re all fucked”.


absolutely no doubt about it.

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## SaadH

Indian Libertarian said:


> *Really the only time I’ve heard of this being done is when Soviet pilots flew Chinese & North Korean MiGs during the Korean War. I think they shot down some American pilots.*
> 
> 
> That clearly contradicts what their position was at the UNSC. I thought Brazil condemned?


16 Pakistani pilots volunteered for the various Arab Air Forces in the Yom Kippur War (also volunteered in the six day war), one of them Abdul Sattar Alvi shot down IDAF's Mirage 3 piloted by Capt. Lutz while flying a Syrian AF's Mig 21.

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## Nomad40

RescueRanger said:


> If the nukes start flying, take it from someone who’s made a living teaching survival skills. “we’re all fucked”.


Vladimir has started something that he will need to finish and I am positive that losing is not in his books either he takes the pill or win's this with what ever means.

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## Spetsnaz.frog

RescueRanger said:


> Don’t believe anything coming out of Ukraine.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497901723716923392

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## Enigma SIG

RescueRanger said:


> Watch this space!!! The west are planning on installing a puppet leader in Belarus:
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/Tsihanouskaya
> 
> 
> 
> Video for further explanation:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497583706038484996


Funny how the west teaches democracy and then there's all sorts of self proclaimed leaders rising up lol.

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## Khan vilatey

QWECXZ said:


> Russia has not opened a front in the west of Ukraine in cities like Lviv. NATO can and will continue to use its access to western regions of Ukraine for reinforcements. This could be due to several factors, including lack of logistics to that part of Ukraine, fear of unintended clashes with neighboring countries or an unofficial agreement with NATO about not invading areas of Ukraine that border NATO members.
> 
> I don't think the Afghan model would work in Ukraine. I have talked about it in detail before.


Link please want to read 

K


----------



## gambit

AMD and Intel Halt Processor Sales to Russia and Belarus (Updated)


A silicon wasteland




www.tomshardware.com





While companies like Intel and AMD are reportedly suspending sales immediately, that won't have an immediate devastating impact on the industry. According to the Semiconductor Industry Association, the Russian government accounts for less than 0.1% of global chip purchases, while the broader Russian market represents roughly $50.3 billion out of the $4.47 trillion global semiconductor market.​​*Instead, the impact is expected to be felt when supercomputers, networking, military chips, and the like fail or need upgrades. In those cases, Russia would be forced to acquire the chips illicitly.*​​The EU closed its airspace to Russian aircrafts. UPS and Fedex stopped deliveries. BP exited. The ruble is becoming rubble. Russian banks are running low.

All of these actions, and more to come, will be in place for yrs after the war ended, no matter how it ended. Their cumulative effects will be devastating to the Russian economy which already in poor shape before the war.

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## RescueRanger

Spetsnaz.frog said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497901723716923392


Exactly this !

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> I get what you said about Poutine wanting to control.
> 
> Anyway...What I do not get is why people, from ordinary to the pols, do not get *no. 1* *and 2*. Often I ask myself: Am I too old? But no, that is not it. Many of our political class are as old as I am or older, and lived thru the dive-under-the-table exercise Cold War yrs. I would have thought that yrs plus experience equals cynicism. But what really stuck in my craw is no. 2: *Appeasement does not work*. Why do people persists in believing the opposite? How do such weak people got elected?
> 
> What I said about club membership being explicit and implicit, I learned from a US Army 1SG, or 'First Shirt' as we AF call them, when I passed thru Baumholder back in '87. In our conversation, he also added that a country maybe neutral, but implicitly allied with another country and covertly working inside that alliance. I wonder if that is what Poutine worried about, that while NATO stamped 'Rejected' on Ukraine's application, the fact that Ukraine did expressed interest opened the door for that covert alliance, or at least unlocked the door. In his KGB-minded world, the unofficial realm is where the work get done. A long time ago, I read that according to a Congressional staffer, many deals were made by the urinals, and I have no doubt about that.


Well, you and me both, my friend.

I think the first thing is, people and country are different. A person can stay out of most thing, because you are in charge of you, On the other hand, for a leader (a free democratic leader, not a dictator) this is more or less a more complicated factor. Because there are always 2 groups of people seeing different things and whatever you do is not going to be satisfy by either one of them. And sometime, the best decision you come up with it not to make any decision at all. but then not doing them does not make them go away, it just delay the inevitable. Not sure if that make any sense to you...That is in most case why leader choose to be neutral and choose to appease.

About the "Club Membership" I can feel what Putin felt as I used to work Military Intelligence as well, the problem intelligence people are generally distrusting. The need to verify, the need to find out the truth. Just because you say something or do something does not mean I need to believe that is your true intention. As the old saying goes, trust but verify. I am pretty sure this is how Putin operate, because this is how I operate.

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## RescueRanger

Million dollar question 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498073849019068418

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498150185037447171

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## Clutch

AZMwi said:


> One thing is certain. The west has almost won the propaganda war. The twitter handles I am seeing on this forum are mainly european controlled. The social media giants have blocked russian handles/pages. These are too many fake news circulating and unfortunately some PDF members are sharing these tweets/news without any verification.
> This war has at least made one thing clear. The west controls everything. These so called social media giants, news channels etc are controlled by the west.




The Western Social media port s the arm of Western Intelligence for psychops.


Need to dig deeper into the dark web to get the real story.

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## jhungary

Desert Fox 1 said:


> You are back after quite some time.


Well, some one send me an email and ask me to come back and talk about the Russian-Ukrainian war, which I did. I wrote a detail piece on that yesterday.

I will be back tomorrow and write a follow up piece, after that, I don't know.

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## RescueRanger

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498150185037447171



Sounds like an old towed ZU 23

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## untitled

Bleek said:


> American and British special forces veterans are supposedly going to enter the fight in Ukraine, couldn't the pilots?


If they ever do and get captured, that could lead to a huge embarrassment for NATO

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## jhungary

Desert Fox 1 said:


> The Soviet doctrine originally was that the airforce would clear out the major bottlenecks. After that Arty with the first wave would destroy the regions with major oppositons and finally the tanks would steam roll the area just as to cover space towards the next objectives while the second and third wave would look after the pockets left. But here the absence of Airforce is the foremost reason why russians are unable to implement what they've trained to do. Also arty is not being used to prevent collateral damage. That's why instead of being used just to cover space, russian forces are forced to fight numerous set piece battles of attrition.
> Also Ukrainian operational planners musr he given credit since they've chosen defensive positions well, kostl those with some sort of natural defensive line and luring them in fighting somewhat non-conventional battles.


Well, you want to know what is wrong with Russia offence? Just look at this picture






This is what's wrong with the Russian offensive.

Bear in mind, this picture were made during the day on day 4 and it was moving down to Kyiv with Ukraine Air Force still sortie. I bet @gambit would be drooling over this big juicy target when he is flying his F-16, If it was me, I would call in Fast Air and Artillery on the head of column, not only they move in a nice double file manner, they move between obstacle and slow. This is a big giant sign that said "Hit me".

This should never have happened on enemy territories. This is not acceptable in US standard, this is not acceptable in Russian standard, probably even Somalian standard. You don't move your troop during the day, you don't move in enemy territories in a single or double file, you don't move a 4 km convoy in an entire length.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498153477213618178

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## khansaheeb

Hamartia Antidote said:


> for supplies they land in the grass


Well it is -3C at the moment in Ukraine so they either wear skis or need to land on concrete. otherwise they will have to wait till the summer to use these babies.


----------



## Nomad40

Spetsnaz.frog said:


> Civilian casualties


The Russians have never cared for collateral damage, there was intelligence which could have been an assertion for brute force and followed by videos of Civilians being armed would have, shooting at convoys, using anti tanks weapons and so on, there have been many reports of Russian air craft attacking civilian settlements. A possible explanation maybe that this war is hiding another much catastrophic war or maybe its economics and the sane will pray that its not the first one.

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## A1Kaid

jhungary said:


> It wouldn't matter if they are trained to the same regime.
> 
> It's like saying Puerto Rican or Samoan soldier in the US Army are second rated....


Level of training, quality of person, and equipment varies. You should know that. Would you compare a Navy Seal to a rank and file Private?


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## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> Well, you want to know what is wrong with Russia offence? Just look at this picture
> 
> View attachment 819443
> 
> This is what's wrong with the Russian offensive.
> 
> Bear in mind, this picture were made during the day on day 4 and it was moving down to Kyiv with Ukraine Air Force still sortie. I bet @gambit would be drooling over this big juicy target when he is flying his F-16, If it was me, I would call in Fast Air and Artillery on the head of column, not only they move in a nice double file manner, they move between obstacle and slow. This is a big giant sign that said "Hit me".
> 
> This should never have happened on enemy territories. This is not acceptable in US standard, this is not acceptable in Russian standard, probably even Somalian standard. You don't move your troop during the day, you don't move in enemy territories in a single or double file, you don't move a 4 km convoy in an entire length.


Because Russians know they are no fighting Nato or US and Russia airforce will control the skies, it's the fastest way to move their troops and equipments, surely they did the necessary analysis and make every maneuver on case by case basis. Judging from the overall result, it's not a bad move at all.

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## khansaheeb

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498153477213618178


Are the tanks following the highway code, that's what I do when I miss a junction.

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## Clutch

The Eagle said:


> I have a general question for understanding and if explained well, it might help others as well.
> 
> Russia said that none should interfere.
> US/EU/West etc all said that they can't intervene or send military since Ukraine isn't NATO...not their responsibility.
> 
> If EU/US are arming Ukraine, I wanted to ask isn't that interference?
> 
> Secondly, why can't other countries can arm their friends against US/EU?
> 
> You can quote and reply particular question separately.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> 
> Let's not wish death for anyone.


I think reports of European weapons and now aircrafts to Ukraine are part of the Fake News and unreliable. .. this is exactly because of the reasons you mentioned. Russia has made it clear that any interference against their campaign in Ukraine will be an escalation and direct conflict with Russia.

The European will not take that step... At least for now. They are only relying on economic warfare through sanctions.

Putin knows he has limited time on his hands to achieve the objectives in Europe before it becomes unbearable for Russia to continue.

So expect the Russians to gain as much ground as possible before everyone sitting on the negotiation table.

The only wildcard is that wars are unpredictable and once begun... Even with intentions of limited scale.. can easily get out of hand and beyond the initial intent.....

I say this... Without a dog in the fight.... But the best thing to happen for world Peace is for the Ukrainians to lose and that will enable Russia to come to the negotiation table having saved face and in turn to be "reasonable". The longer the Ukrainians resist and cause damage to the Russians... They closer the world inches towards total war.

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## Microsoft

gambit said:


> AMD and Intel Halt Processor Sales to Russia and Belarus (Updated)
> 
> 
> A silicon wasteland
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tomshardware.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While companies like Intel and AMD are reportedly suspending sales immediately, that won't have an immediate devastating impact on the industry. According to the Semiconductor Industry Association, the Russian government accounts for less than 0.1% of global chip purchases, while the broader Russian market represents roughly $50.3 billion out of the $4.47 trillion global semiconductor market.​​*Instead, the impact is expected to be felt when supercomputers, networking, military chips, and the like fail or need upgrades. In those cases, Russia would be forced to acquire the chips illicitly.*​​The EU closed its airspace to Russian aircrafts. UPS and Fedex stopped deliveries. BP exited. The ruble is becoming rubble. Russian banks are running low.
> 
> All of these actions, and more to come, will be in place for yrs after the war ended, no matter how it ended. Their cumulative effects will be devastating to the Russian economy which already in poor shape before the war.



What you're describing is a coping mechanism for those blind to Biden's failures. This would never have happened if Biden didn't leave Afghanistan the way he did OR if Trump was still president.

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## jhungary

A1Kaid said:


> Level of training, quality of person, and equipment varies. You should know that. Would you compare a Navy Seal to a rank and file Private?


Well, that's another argument. 

Seal, Ranger and SOF have extra training (I went thru Airborne School and Ranger School myself) so that of course is different than a 88M who just went thru Basic or maybe AIT. That is a different argument you are raising tho, you are saying they are Chechen or Militia so they are second rated. Well, it's like saying Army Reservist or a National Guard, who underwent the same Basic and AIT are any different than Regular Army or An Army private from Idaho who going to have the same training and AIT than a Puerto Rican or Guamanian would be different. 

Or are you saying Russia are trained to a different regime than Chechen?


----------



## jamahir

Malik Alpha said:


> He is not Al Qaeda or Muslim Brotherhood. He is from FSA a Syrian whose country got destroyed by Russians. You hindi second hand Muslim won't understand it.



I agree there have been actual formerly government-side Syrians in the so-called FSA like the former cosmonaut Muhammed Faris and the army officer Salim Idris but the so-called FSA is mostly composed of Syrian "M"B, non-Syrian "M"B and AQ. And you cannot deny that to this humble "Hindi Second-hand Muslim".



terry5 said:


> Typical Brainwashed Indian racist post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Syria rebels arrest renowned fighter over 'mocking Instagram posts'
> 
> 
> The extremist Hayaat Tahrir al-Sham Syrian rebel alliance arrested on Monday well-known opposition fighter 'Abu TOW' after he posted images online making fun of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> english.alaraby.co.uk



Essentially you are posting about infighting among the criminals.  Check this from your link :


> Word of Abu TOW's arrest sparked a street protest on Thursday in the northwestern city of Azaz.
> 
> "The Syrian revolution will not end up trading a tyrannic secular regime for a tyrannic religious regime," one protester said.


They are confused people at best. So if they don't want a Socialist system and they don't want a Western-government-supported mullah system what do they want ?


----------



## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> Because Russians know they are no fighting Nato or US and Russia airforce will control the skies, it's the fastest way to move their troops and equipments, surely they did the necessary analysis and make every maneuver on case by case basis. Judging from the overall result, it's not a bad move at all.


You do know the Ukrainian did intercept this convoy, right?

Second of all, Russia is NOT controlling the sky, that's a problem and even if they do, you still don't travel like this, a well placed MLRS hit in the first 4 vehicles in a formation like this will make them hard to get out and they are going to get stuck. You don't need a fighter jet, or any air support, you just need to have a dude hiding inside some bush talking to an artillery operator that can bring fire into the area. And trust me, they are 30 km from Kyiv, a lot of Artillery inside Kyiv that can hit that convoy 

As I said, no one travel like that, this is taught AGAINST in the US military, Sure, you move from inside Russia or I can excuse it on Belarus, but not in enemy territories, you watch your convoy spacing.


----------



## khansaheeb

Clutch said:


> I think reports of European weapons and now aircrafts to Ukraine are part of the Fake News and unreliable. .. this is exactly because of the reasons you mentioned. Russia has made it clear that any interference against their campaign in Ukraine will be an escalation and direct conflict with Russia.
> 
> The European will not take that step... At least for now. They are only relying on economic warfare through sanctions.
> 
> Putin knows he has limited time on his hands to achieve the objectives in Europe before it becomes unbearable for Russia to continue.
> 
> So expect the Russians to gain as much ground as possible before everyone sitting on the negotiation table.
> 
> The only wildcard is that wars are unpredictable and once begun... Even with intentions of limited scale.. can easily get out of hand and beyond the initial intent.....
> 
> I say this... Without a dog in the fight.... But the best thing to happen for world Peace is for the Ukrainians to lose and that will enable Russia to come to the negotiation table having saved face and in turn to be "reasonable". The longer the Ukrainians resist and cause damage to the Russians... They closer the world inches towards total war.


​







US drones flew overhead as Ukraine attacked Russian ships: Moscow


Russia’s Defense Ministry has pointed to the likely presence of US drones in the air directing an attempted attack on the Russian Black Sea Fleet by Ukrainian gunboats.




www.presstv.ir



US drones flew overhead as Ukraine attacked Russian ships: Moscow​Sunday, 27 February 2022 3:33 AM *[ Last Update: Sunday, 27 February 2022 12:09 PM ]*






File photo of a US RQ-4 Global Hawk unmanned aerial vehicle
*Russia’s Defense Ministry has pointed to the likely presence of US drones in the air directing an attempted attack on the Russian Black Sea Fleet by Ukrainian gunboats.*
"I would like to point special attention to the fact that during the attack by Ukrainian vessels, strategic US RQ-4 Global Hawk and MQ9A Reaper unmanned aerial vehicles were loitering over the area," said Defense Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov in a briefing Saturday, Sputnik News reported.
"There is a strong likelihood that it was the American UAVs that directed Ukrainian boats at the ships of the Russian Black Sea Fleet," Konashenkov added, referring to an operation carried out on Friday night.
According to the official, 16 Ukrainian Navy gunboats using 'swarm tactics' attempted to attack Russian warships near Zmiinyi Island (Snake Island) off Odessa, southwestern Ukraine on Friday night during the evacuation of 82 Ukrainian Border Guard servicemen that surrendered to Russian forces off the island.
Konashenkov further explained that some of the Ukrainian boats attempted to use civilian vessels as cover, adding that during the ensuing battle, six of the Ukrainian boats were destroyed.
He then emphasized that none of the 82 Ukrainian servicemen retrieved from Zmiinyi Island were injured.
According to the report, the reported bravery of the Ukrainian garrison on Zmiinyi soon became the subject of an internet lore, with an audio clip of Ukrainian troops telling a Russian warship to "go f*** yourself" accompanied with reports that all 13 defenders of the island were mowed down by the Russians spread on social media and by news outlets.



Defense Min. spox: Ukraine uses staged videos to accuse Russia, there's no threat to civilian population
Russia’s defense ministry says Ukraine
Ukrainian authorities then decided to honor the island's defenders with the Hero of Ukraine award.
However, on Saturday, the Russian military published footage showing 82 Ukrainian military personnel disembarking in Sevastopol, Crimea and being distributed field rations before being put on buses and sent home.
"They laid down their arms and decided to return to their families," said Maj. Gen. Mikhail Yasnikov, deputy commander of the Black Sea Fleet for logistics, added that a safe corridor was provided for them to leave the area of Russia's military operation.
Meanwhile, Moscow had put its military operation in Ukraine on hold Friday afternoon after Kiev announced its readiness to negotiate, but resumed it on Saturday after Kiev rejected talks on the grounds that the conditions weren't right.

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## Enigma SIG

khansaheeb said:


> Are the tanks following the highway code, that's what I do when I miss a junction.


Seem pretty well mannered following the road. I play BF5 often and the things people do in Tanks lol.

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## jamahir

khansaheeb said:


> Are the tanks following the highway code, that's what I do when I miss a junction.



If it was the American tanks they would simply crush everything and go where ever.

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## Clutch

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497974245737050120
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498030323208269827



Western attitude like this makes me say, "well then, let's hope they just nuke each other off then!"... But the humanity in me says, "no, they are human and deserve dignity."... Perhaps it's our brown skin that is full of love and respect for all... Versus the gas chambers and extermination of natives they have in their blood.



khansaheeb said:


> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US drones flew overhead as Ukraine attacked Russian ships: Moscow
> 
> 
> Russia’s Defense Ministry has pointed to the likely presence of US drones in the air directing an attempted attack on the Russian Black Sea Fleet by Ukrainian gunboats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.presstv.ir
> 
> 
> 
> US drones flew overhead as Ukraine attacked Russian ships: Moscow​Sunday, 27 February 2022 3:33 AM *[ Last Update: Sunday, 27 February 2022 12:09 PM ]*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> File photo of a US RQ-4 Global Hawk unmanned aerial vehicle
> *Russia’s Defense Ministry has pointed to the likely presence of US drones in the air directing an attempted attack on the Russian Black Sea Fleet by Ukrainian gunboats.*
> "I would like to point special attention to the fact that during the attack by Ukrainian vessels, strategic US RQ-4 Global Hawk and MQ9A Reaper unmanned aerial vehicles were loitering over the area," said Defense Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov in a briefing Saturday, Sputnik News reported.
> "There is a strong likelihood that it was the American UAVs that directed Ukrainian boats at the ships of the Russian Black Sea Fleet," Konashenkov added, referring to an operation carried out on Friday night.
> According to the official, 16 Ukrainian Navy gunboats using 'swarm tactics' attempted to attack Russian warships near Zmiinyi Island (Snake Island) off Odessa, southwestern Ukraine on Friday night during the evacuation of 82 Ukrainian Border Guard servicemen that surrendered to Russian forces off the island.
> Konashenkov further explained that some of the Ukrainian boats attempted to use civilian vessels as cover, adding that during the ensuing battle, six of the Ukrainian boats were destroyed.
> He then emphasized that none of the 82 Ukrainian servicemen retrieved from Zmiinyi Island were injured.
> According to the report, the reported bravery of the Ukrainian garrison on Zmiinyi soon became the subject of an internet lore, with an audio clip of Ukrainian troops telling a Russian warship to "go f*** yourself" accompanied with reports that all 13 defenders of the island were mowed down by the Russians spread on social media and by news outlets.
> 
> 
> 
> Defense Min. spox: Ukraine uses staged videos to accuse Russia, there's no threat to civilian population
> Russia’s defense ministry says Ukraine
> Ukrainian authorities then decided to honor the island's defenders with the Hero of Ukraine award.
> However, on Saturday, the Russian military published footage showing 82 Ukrainian military personnel disembarking in Sevastopol, Crimea and being distributed field rations before being put on buses and sent home.
> "They laid down their arms and decided to return to their families," said Maj. Gen. Mikhail Yasnikov, deputy commander of the Black Sea Fleet for logistics, added that a safe corridor was provided for them to leave the area of Russia's military operation.
> Meanwhile, Moscow had put its military operation in Ukraine on hold Friday afternoon after Kiev announced its readiness to negotiate, but resumed it on Saturday after Kiev rejected talks on the grounds that the conditions weren't right.



Russia needs to declare a wide no-fly-zone around Ukraine and say anyone flying into that region will be shot down and would be an act of war.



jamahir said:


> If it was the American tanks they would simply crush everything and go where ever.

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## khansaheeb



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## Awan68

jhungary said:


> Well, you want to know what is wrong with Russia offence? Just look at this picture
> 
> View attachment 819443
> 
> This is what's wrong with the Russian offensive.
> 
> Bear in mind, this picture were made during the day on day 4 and it was moving down to Kyiv with Ukraine Air Force still sortie. I bet @gambit would be drooling over this big juicy target when he is flying his F-16, If it was me, I would call in Fast Air and Artillery on the head of column, not only they move in a nice double file manner, they move between obstacle and slow. This is a big giant sign that said "Hit me".
> 
> This should never have happened on enemy territories. This is not acceptable in US standard, this is not acceptable in Russian standard, probably even Somalian standard. You don't move your troop during the day, you don't move in enemy territories in a single or double file, you don't move a 4 km convoy in an entire length.


Dont u think the Russian military would know this, this is something an imbecile 3 yr old would know, the only plausible explanation as to why they would move towards Kyiv like this is that they dont expect to be attacked via air, this could mean that they have air superiority over regions of Ukarine if not all of the country. With all the fake info floating around, one would have to take educated guesses to figure stuff out and it seems Russia has air superiority over that region atleast.

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## bravo45

I am really busy these days, but you need to understand and decide on whether Russia is actually fighting on your side. Even the western media had to report a little bit.... Talking about denazification, as Putin indicated.... This is a Washington Post article from 2017



https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/ukraine-turns-a-blind-eye-to-ultrarightist-militia/2017/02/12/dbf9ea3c-ecab-11e6-b4ff-ac2cf509efe5_story.html



"

"Giuseppe Donene’s T-shirt echoes a Nazi-era war flag, emblazoned with the word “Hatred.” Despite his extreme ideology, he is disarmingly affable. What prompted him to enlist? “This is Europe, my house. But governments don’t let us fight,” he says. He complains that Europe is losing its identity to Muslims and African immigrants, and maintains that eastern Ukraine is the place to take a stand. “Something big’s happening here. It’s worth fighting for.” *This 47-year-old married father of two has worked in private security in Angola, Iraq, Sudan and Syria*. Every few months, he takes leave to join pro-Ukrainian battalions. “My family don’t support me, but they try to understand,” he says. “It’s tough, though. An eternal conflict.” He doesn’t worry that his presence could lend credence to the Kremlin line about fascists fighting for Ukraine. "

"

Why the hell is no one informed enough to even mention it? Why is everyone sleeping... This region was a Muslim majority at one point (definitely the Crimea was ). Like I said I don't have time these days, and wanted to latch on to some source that would keep me informed without spending too much time, but there simply isn't anyone out there. It took me less than 5 mins on google to find this... I know its not being reported but anyone who know a little something would know where to look.

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## Song Hong

*Kiev Live*




















*Israel on Gaza*

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## khansaheeb

Chechens getting ready for Ukraine:-

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## jhungary

Awan68 said:


> Dont u think the Russian military would know this, this is something an imbecile 3 yr old would know, the inly olausible explanation as to why they would move towards Kyiv like this is that they dont expect to be attacked via air, this could mean that they have air superiority over regions of Ukarine if not all of the country.
> 
> 
> Dont u think the Russian military would know this, this is something an imbecile 3 yr old would know, the inly olausible explanation as to why they would move towards Kyiv like this is that they dont expect to be attacked via air, this could mean that they have air superiority over regions of Ukarine if not all of the country.


You don't need to attack them by air, Russia does not take a lot of ground around Kyiv, there are artillery deployed along. You don't need fast air, a single artillery regiment (15 guns) with a spotter hiding somewhere would reek havoc to this convoy. You don't need to hit the entire length of the convoy, you only need to hit the head of the convoy, it would stop, Because there are like 1000 tanks and truck in there tightly pack without spacing, you can't reverse 1000 tanks and trucks at the same time. 

And Russia does not even have total air superiority anyway, Ukrainian still launch sortie and I am pretty sure Ukraine did intercept this convoy.

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## Awan68

jhungary said:


> You don't need to attack them by air, Russia does not take a lot of ground around Kyiv, there are artillery deployed along. You don't need fast air, a single artillery regiment (15 guns) with a spotter hiding somewhere would reek havoc to this convoy. You don't need to hit the entire length of the convoy, you only need to hit the head of the convoy, it would stop, Because there are like 1000 tanks and truck in there tightly pack without spacing, you can't reverse 1000 tanks and trucks at the same time.
> 
> And Russia does not even have total air superiority anyway, Ukrainian still launch sortie and I am pretty sure Ukraine did intercept this convoy.


Again doesnt seem plausible, it is a mistake not even some rag tag militia would make let alone the Russian military, the only explanation is that there are no Ukranian assets in the Area that could threaten this convoy air or otherwise kyiv is supposed to be almost surrounded by now, the only thing that makes sense is what i am speculating.


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## Enigma SIG

Microsoft said:


> What you're describing is a coping mechanism for those blinded by Biden's failures. This would never have happened if Biden didn't leave Afghanistan like that OR if Trump was still president.








Ok the first part ain't right cuz they have western weapons, but funny nonetheless.

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## TheNoob

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498153477213618178



Even in wartime these people have better road manners than Karachi walay.

Absolute bonkers.

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## Song Hong

Ukraine defected unit in unison with Russian army to guard Chernobyl.

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## jamahir

Clutch said:


>



Plain criminals legitimized by the American government.

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## HAIDER

Russian going for talk with Ukraine in Belarus on Monday. But Putin gave his navy ultimate task to control Ukraine coastline and specially Odessa port. Once the coastline cut off that is the end of game. Russia has no interest in Rest of Ukraine. This is new game, the result will be out in 2023. Actual target is someone else too.

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## Clutch

jamahir said:


> Plain criminals legitimized by the American government.



Plain Criminals when White. Plain Terrorist when Brown. That's the nuance.

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## Enigma SIG

jamahir said:


> Plain criminals legitimized by the American government.


Criminals legitimizing other criminals. It's called a Mafia.

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## jamahir

khansaheeb said:


> Chechens getting ready for Ukraine:-



1. On whose side will they be fighting ? Russian side ?

2. That chant at the end seems quite ancient. Ancient native mixed with Islamic.

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## That Guy

jamahir said:


> 1. On whose side will they be fighting ? Russian side ?
> 
> 2. That chant at the end seems quite ancient. Ancient native mixed with Islamic.


This is an extremely old video.

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## PakAlp

jamahir said:


> 1. On whose side will they be fighting ? Russian side ?
> 
> 2. That chant at the end seems quite ancient. Ancient native mixed with Islamic.



This is old youtube zikr video, Yes Chechens will be fighting as they are from Russia.

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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498171698658648064

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## That Guy

CrazyZ said:


> My guesses are the Russians kept this invasion on the light side since they wanted Ukraine in one piece while forcing a negotiated settlement.


They kept it on the light side to keep Ukrainebin one-piece, I agree with that part.

But not the part about a negotiated settlement.

The Russians thought the Ukrainians would be a cake walk, that they'd be home in a few days after installing a new government. By not using heavy weapons, they'd keep all the infrastructure in place for their puppet government to use.

Now they're stuck, and have committed themselves too much.

The fact that they've resorted to seiging cities is evidence that the Russians have so far achieved nothing, except for unifying Europe and NATO, the exact opposite of what was happening due to infighting, and the exact opposite of what Russia and China wanted.


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## jamahir

PakAlp said:


> Yes Chechens will be fighting as they are from Russia.



Well, I asked because some Chechens seem to be also fighting alongside the Ukranian government. But yes, Kadyrov's Chechens, as you indicated, are on the Russian side.



That Guy said:


> The fact that they've resorted to seiging cities is evidence that the Russians have so far achieved nothing, except for unifying Europe and NATO, the exact opposite of what was happening due to infighting, and the exact opposite of what Russia and China wanted.



Well, Zelensky has become desperate so soon that he has had to resort to making appeal for international fighters to enter the war.

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> You don't need to attack them by air, Russia does not take a lot of ground around Kyiv, there are artillery deployed along. You don't need fast air, a single artillery regiment (15 guns) with a spotter hiding somewhere would reek havoc to this convoy. You don't need to hit the entire length of the convoy, you only need to hit the head of the convoy, it would stop, Because there are like 1000 tanks and truck in there tightly pack without spacing, you can't reverse 1000 tanks and trucks at the same time.
> 
> And Russia does not even have total air superiority anyway, Ukrainian still launch sortie and I am pretty sure Ukraine did intercept this convoy.



According to the video, the "3km" convoy got bombed last night

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498167781572759554


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## TheNoob

Paul2 said:


> According to the video, the "3km" convoy got bombed last night
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498167781572759554



Can't confirm. 
I believe i've seen this video during the "missile bombardment" of one of the cities too before.

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## That Guy

Meengla said:


> That is such a naive reading of the war.
> This war strengthens China, which is Pakistan's strongest ally. And you are talking about some weapons which Pakistan could acquire from other places?? And India paid hard cash for the Russian arms. Even here you'd see some Indian members are siding with the West against Russia. There are no permanent friends or enemies--only permanent interests for nations.
> I don't know how anyone can miss the evolving geopolitical situation of Iran, Pakistan, China and Russia aligning their policies.


Don't call people naive, when you miss basic facts.

It may strengthen China, but it weakens Pakistan, as a vital supplier of military parts for Pakistan is no longer able to supply those parts. Pakistan uses a shit ton of Ukrainian engines for its tank forces, and replacing those tank engines is gonna cost a lot of money and time.

It also limits Pakistan's list of foreign suppliers. Relying entirely on a single supplier will erode Pakistan's sovereignty.

For Russia and India, yes Indians paid cash, but that's because they could afford it. There is a reason why Russians always go to Pakistan, whenever the Indians say they'll side deals with the US. Its blackmail. If the Russians were so friendly towards Pakistan, they'd be selling the RD-93 directly to Pakistan, instead of to China.

Pakistan is not aligning its policy with Iran or any other country. Its aligning itself to a more neutral stance, that just happens to be China friendly. With the Russia sanctions, you can also kiss increased economic and military relations with them goodbye.

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## Bleek

khansaheeb said:


> Chechens getting ready for Ukraine:-


There was a video of Ukranians dipping bullets in pig fat to shoot them


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## Clutch



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## That Guy

jamahir said:


> Well, I asked because some Chechens seem to be also fighting alongside the Ukranian government. But yes, Kadyrov's Chechens, as you indicated, are on the Russian side.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, Zelensky has become desperate so soon that he has had to resort to making appeal for international fighters to enter the war.


Ukraine has always been a weak middling power. While Russia has been one of the great powers for a long time.

Your attempt at comparison is bad. Of course you ask for international help when you're the weaker power.

This isn't video games, this isn't call of duty where every soldier is rambo, and asking for outside help is cheating. This is war.

Zelensky will use every method he can in order to push the Russians out.

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## Dalit

That Guy said:


> Don't call people naive, when you miss basic facts.
> 
> It may strengthen China, but it weakens Pakistan, as a vital supplier of military parts for Pakistan is no longer able to supply those parts. Pakistan uses a shit ton of Ukrainian engines for its tank forces, and replacing those tank engines is gonna cost a lot of money and time.
> 
> It also limits Pakistan's list of foreign suppliers. Relying entirely on a single supplier will erode Pakistan's sovereignty.
> 
> For Russia and India, yes Indians paid cash, but that's because they could afford it. There is a reason why Russians always go to Pakistan, whenever the Indians say they'll side deals with the US. Its blackmail. If the Russians were so friendly towards Pakistan, they'd be selling the RD-93 directly to Pakistan, instead of to China.
> 
> Pakistan is not aligning its policy with Iran or any other country. Its aligning itself to a more neutral stance, that just happens to be China friendly. With the Russia sanctions, you can also kiss increased economic and military relations with them goodbye.



What about the rest of the world including India? Don't these countries buy military equipment from Russia? What would happen to them?


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## jamahir

That Guy said:


> Ukraine has always been a weak middling power. While Russia has been one of the great powers for a long time.
> 
> Your attempt at comparison is bad. Of course you ask for international help when you're the weaker power.
> 
> This isn't video games, this isn't call of duty where every soldier is rambo, and asking for outside help is cheating. This is war.
> 
> Zelensky will use every method he can in order to push the Russians out.



Zelensky was hoping for Western governments to help his Nazi forces but when that didn't come - at least visibly - then he resorted to appeal for foreign non-state fighters. That was my point.

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## Khan vilatey

Good analysis






k


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## That Guy

Falcon29 said:


> @LeGenD @That Guy
> 
> What's your take on this, fellas?


There were reports that Putin gave the Russian army until Monday clean up the mess and take Kyiv, regardless of the human cost.

If this news is true, and I've heard it before (turned out to be fake), then it makes sense, because Putin is probably pissed off. Still, he should have listened to his intelligence, which I can guarantee said tho war was a bad idea and Russia should stick with the rebel held areas.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> According to the video, the "3km" convoy got bombed last night
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498167781572759554


Yeah, that's what I heard too. 

Well, this is just too dumb to run convoy like that....

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## That Guy

jamahir said:


> Zelensky was hoping for Western governments to help his Nazi forces but when that didn't come - at least visibly - then he resorted to appeal for non-state fighters. That was my point.


Who cares? Again, when you're in the weaker position, you take whatever help you can get.

There are reports that Chechens are fighting on both sides of the war.

Also, I still can't believe people are calling Zelensky a nazi. Talk about eating Russian propaganda.



Dalit said:


> What about the rest of the world including India? Don't these countries buy military equipment from Russia? What would happen to them?


India (and similar nations) will likely ask for a temporary waivers under the promise that India will start to move away from using Russian technology...or they won't care about getting sanctioned themselves, like the Venezuelans.



NotSure said:


> Well, this is the third frontline, first and second are from Crimea and Donezk...


Russia is spread too thinly, which is why they keep losing entire convoys.


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## jhungary

Awan68 said:


> Again doesnt seem plausible, it is a mistake not even some rag tag militia would make let alone the Russian military, the only explanation is that there are no Ukranian assets in the Area that could threaten this convoy air or otherwise kyiv is supposed to be almost surrounded by now, the only thing that makes sense is what i am speculating.


For a professional force like Russia, you don't expect stuff that won't happen and goes with it. For starter, How do Russia sure there are no Ukrainian asset in the Area? Would you care to explain to me? I run intelligence with the US Army for 3 years, I never be so certain that there are no enemy asset in any area I operate, remember Robert Ridges? AC-130 with IR also called ahead and say there were no Taliban, do you know what happened in the end? So, how can you be sure at any point there are no enemy that can touch it? You do know camouflaging a position is a thing, right?

As I said, the area is NOT secured, Russia does not have Air Superiority nor Ground control, which mean doing stuff like this is taking a risk that not going to fly, yet they did it anyway, you don't "Assume" you're not going to get hit if you are a competent force, you don't assume there are no enemy asset in the area as situation is dynamic, and as a Army Intelligence Officer, I can tell you, unless Russia have some sort of "God Eye" system, you can't sweep the area with drone and say "Hey there are nothing there"

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## jamahir

That Guy said:


> Also, I still can't believe people are calling Zelensky a nazi. Talk about eating Russian propaganda.



Last evening there were at least two posts in this thread about the Russians taking the Nazi militia base of the Azov Battalion at Mariupol. Read this from the 24th :


> FACEBOOK WILL TEMPORARILY allow its billions of users to praise the Azov Battalion, a Ukrainian neo-Nazi military unit previously banned from being freely discussed under the company’s Dangerous Individuals and Organizations policy, The Intercept has learned.
> 
> The policy shift, made this week, is pegged to the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine and preceding military escalations. The Azov Battalion, which functions as an armed wing of the broader Ukrainian white nationalist Azov movement, began as a volunteer anti-Russia militia before formally joining the Ukrainian National Guard in 2014; the regiment is known for its hardcore right-wing ultranationalism and the neo-Nazi ideology pervasive among its members. Though it has in recent years downplayed its neo-Nazi sympathies, the group’s affinities are not subtle: Azov soldiers march and train wearing uniforms bearing icons of the Third Reich; its leadership has reportedly courted American alt-right and neo-Nazi elements; and in 2010, the battalion’s first commander and a former Ukrainian parliamentarian, Andriy Biletsky, stated that Ukraine’s national purpose was to “lead the white races of the world in a final crusade … against Semite-led Untermenschen [subhumans].” With Russian forces reportedly moving rapidly against targets throughout Ukraine, Facebook’s blunt, list-based approach to moderation puts the company in a bind: What happens when a group you’ve deemed too dangerous to freely discuss is defending its country against a full-scale assault?
> 
> https://theintercept.com/newsletter/?source=Article-In&referrer_post_id=387567
> According to internal policy materials reviewed by The Intercept, Facebook will “allow praise of the Azov Battalion when explicitly and exclusively praising their role in defending Ukraine OR their role as part of the Ukraine’s National Guard.” Internally published examples of speech that Facebook now deems acceptable include “Azov movement volunteers are real heroes, they are a much needed support to our national guard”; “We are under attack. Azov has been courageously defending our town for the last 6 hours”; and “I think Azov is playing a patriotic role during this crisis.”
> 
> The materials stipulate that Azov still can’t use Facebook platforms for recruiting purposes or for publishing its own statements and that the regiment’s uniforms and banners will remain as banned hate symbol imagery, even while Azov soldiers may fight wearing and displaying them. In a tacit acknowledgement of the group’s ideology, the memo provides two examples of posts that would not be allowed under the new policy: “Goebbels, the Fuhrer and Azov, all are great models for national sacrifices and heroism” and “Well done Azov for protecting Ukraine and it’s white nationalist heritage.”
> 
> In a statement to The Intercept, company spokesperson Erica Sackin confirmed the decision but declined to answer questions about the new policy.
> 
> Azov’s formal Facebook ban began in 2019, and the regiment, along with several associated individuals like Biletsky, were designated under the company’s prohibition against hate groups, subject to its harshest “Tier 1” restrictions that bar users from engaging in “praise, support, or representation” of blacklisted entities across the company’s platforms. Facebook’s previously secret roster of banned groups and persons, published by The Intercept last year, categorized the Azov Battalion alongside the likes of the Islamic State and the Ku Klux Klan, all Tier 1 groups because of their propensity for “serious offline harms” and “violence against civilians.” Indeed, a 2016 report by the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights found that Azov soldiers had raped and tortured civilians during Russia’s 2014 invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> The exemption will no doubt create confusion for Facebook’s moderators, tasked with interpreting the company’s muddled and at time contradictory censorship rules under exhausting conditions. While Facebook users may now praise any future battlefield action by Azov soldiers against Russia, the new policy notes that “any praise of violence” committed by the group is still forbidden; it’s unclear what sort of nonviolent warfare the company anticipates.
> 
> 
> 
> Related​Neo-Nazis Not Top of Mind for Senate Democrats Pushing Weapons for Ukraine​Facebook’s new stance on Azov is “nonsensical” in the context of its prohibitions against offline violence, said Dia Kayyali, a researcher specializing in the real-world effects of content moderation at the nonprofit Mnemonic. “It’s typical Facebook,” Kayyali added, noting that while the exemption will permit ordinary Ukrainians to more freely discuss a catastrophe unfolding around them that might otherwise be censored, the fact that such policy tweaks are necessary reflects the dysfunctional state of Facebook’s secret blacklist-based Dangerous Individuals and Organizations policy. “Their assessments of what is a dangerous organization should always be contextual; there shouldn’t be some special carveout for a group that would otherwise fit the policy just because of a specific moment in time. They should have that level of analysis all the time.”
> 
> Though the change may come as welcome news to critics who say that the sprawling, largely secret Dangerous Individuals and Organizations policy can stifle online free expression, it also offers further evidence that Facebook determines what speech is permissible based on the foreign policy judgments of the United States. Last summer, for instance, Motherboard reported that Facebook similarly carved out an exception to its censorship policies in Iran, temporarily allowing users to post “Death to Khamenei” for a two-week period. “I do think it is a direct response to U.S. foreign policy,” Kayyali said of the Azov exemption. “That has always been how the … list works.”

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## LeGenD

pkuser2k12 said:


> did UN mandate sanctioned this
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497172818899144706
> USA used depleted uranium in Yugoslavian war as a result Serbia then part of Yugoslavia has now high cancer rates
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496551705336549380



These are deplorable war excesses without any doubt.

On the other hand, Iraq and Serbia were oppressing Kuwait and Kosovo respectively.









10 Shocking Facts about the Kosovo War | The Borgen Project


The severity of the unrest in Kosovo and the involvement of NATO brought the Kosovo conflict to international attention in the late 1990's. The conflict led to the displacement of thousands and lasting tension between Serbs and Albanians. Here are 5 shocking facts about the Kosovo War.




borgenproject.org





US-led forces liberated Kuwait from Iraq in 1991 (Operation Desert Storm), and liberated Kosovo from Serbia in 1999 (Operation Allied Force). Credit is given on these lines.

I do not appreciate war excesses (or war crimes) in person.


----------



## LeGenD

jhungary said:


> @waz @LeGenD
> 
> IS it possible to take this garbage out to the trash area? Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> In case people are wondering, people like this in this forum is the reason no serious people want to get involved with, maybe coming back here to post my view was a mistake?.


Noted.

Members are advised to stick to the discussion on hand and not subject others to personal attacks in the process. Does not matters if you are in my good books or not. Post sensibly.

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## Clutch

That Guy said:


> Also, I still can't believe people are calling Zelensky a nazi. Talk about eating Russian propaganda.



Are these Russian Propaganda Channels??

























https://youtu.be/jiBXmbkwiSw 
https://youtu.be/xC1oCpnDURc 
https://youtu.be/5SBo0akeDMY 
https://youtu.be/iDG_hWlVda4

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## LeGenD

Dalit said:


> Outrageous. You guys are obviously protecting a filthy animal who openly accused Pakistan after the mosque attack.
> 
> It is clear for me now. There is no purpose to stay on this forum. When the moderators openly side with foreign members who falsely accuse Pakistan it is worthless. If that New Zealander doesn't leave I will leave.


You are subjecting him to personal attack which is against Forum Rules.

If you have complaints about posting history of this member then you may discuss this in GHQ. This thread shall stay on topic.

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## LeGenD

M.AsfandYar said:


> You do realize this person is a bigot hiding under "Professional". He is known Islamophobe.


He could be but this is not the thread to turn on him or any member. WE have a REPORT function.

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## LeGenD

Thread is lock for moderation now.

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## LeGenD

Thread is reopened for discussion.

STAY ON TOPIC - all of you.

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## alimobin memon

Latest Development. 

Anyone Know update current status of kiev after arty fire, without any proper source though.


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## Signalian

Desert Fox 1 said:


> The Soviet doctrine originally was that the airforce would clear out the major bottlenecks. After that Arty with the first wave would destroy the regions with major oppositons and finally the tanks would steam roll the area just as to cover space towards the next objectives while the second and third wave would look after the pockets left. But here the absence of Airforce is the foremost reason why russians are unable to implement what they've trained to do. Also arty is not being used to prevent collateral damage. That's why instead of being used just to cover space, russian forces are forced to fight numerous set piece battles of attrition.
> Also Ukrainian operational planners musr he given credit since they've chosen defensive positions well, kostl those with some sort of natural defensive line and luring them in fighting somewhat non-conventional battles.


Im not sure if your assessment is correct. Russian artillery is being used and there is collateral damage as shown by media. Airforce has been used also in bombing runs. Russians have made a fast advance considering they attacked from 5 sides including amphibious landing ( if I read correctly ), so the bottle necks were cleared.

If the combined arms strategy along with drone attacks are implemented, it could prove quite effective, keeping Russian losses to minimum. Ukraine says it has killed 1000’s of Russian soldiers, if that’s true, it could mean that infantry formations suffered heavy casualties.



LeGenD said:


> Thread is reopened for discussion.
> 
> STAY ON TOPIC - all of you.


Sure thing boss 😎

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## Dustom999

jhungary said:


> For a professional force like Russia, you don't expect stuff that won't happen and goes with it. For starter, How do Russia sure there are no Ukrainian asset in the Area? Would you care to explain to me? I run intelligence with the US Army for 3 years, I never be so certain that there are no enemy asset in any area I operate, remember Robert Ridges? AC-130 with IR also called ahead and say there were no Taliban, do you know what happened in the end? So, how can you be sure at any point there are no enemy that can touch it? You do know camouflaging a position is a thing, right?
> 
> As I said, the area is NOT secured, Russia does not have Air Superiority nor Ground control, which mean doing stuff like this is taking a risk that not going to fly, yet they did it anyway, you don't "Assume" you're not going to get hit if you are a competent force, you don't assume there are no enemy asset in the area as situation is dynamic, and as a Army Intelligence Officer, I can tell you, unless Russia have some sort of "God Eye" system, you can't sweep the area with drone and say "Hey there are nothing there"


If you have to mention every second post how you served in/with US Army, that too in some places investigating Homicide, sometimes running intelligence ops, you seems to be trying too hard. 
With you command of english language, missing and messing up simple past, present and future tenses in short sentences and other basics of the language, probably 18 yr old with CoD installation bought on you papa's credit card.

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## Areesh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498055135519404037
Lets not forget the plight of Tatar Muslims in all of this war

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## jhungary

Signalian said:


> Im not sure if your assessment is correct. Russian artillery is bring used and there is collateral damage as shown by media. Airforce has been used also in bombing runs. Russians have made a fast advance considering they attacked from 5 sides including amphibious landing ( if I read correctly ), so the bottle necks were cleared.
> 
> If the combined arms strategy along with drone attacks are implemented, it could prove quite effective, keeping Russian losses to minimum. Ukraine says it has killer 1000’s of Russian soldiers, if that’s true, it could mean that infantry formations suffered heavy casualties.
> 
> 
> Sure thing boss 😎


The Soviet Doctrine is like how ancient Greek uses Calvary , you mass the entire column side by side and then you roll off after preparatory fire from Artillery, When you roll over your objective, Soviet doctrine require the numeric superiority to overwhelm their enemy number and then swarm the area in the area and armor onto the next target. This is what the Soviet do during Kursk

This war tho, the Russia is using a somewhat American playbook, which is more German Blitz, which is a purposeful spearhead launch for a specific objective, and then using that sphere and screen them with Fast Air and Artillery until they reach the area. Then launch an attack using a combine arms tactics, combining Armor, Troop and Air Support 

The key for this strategy, as shown in battle of 73 Easting, is that you have to have mechanise infantry to travel with your armour column, then dismount them when they reach their objective and work alongside with Armor and Air Asset to take the objective. 

This strategy depends on 24/7 CAS and Gunship support, accurate artillery and a clear defined target , you take the arae quadrant by quadrant, phase line by phase line. As far as I can see, the synergy between the Armor and Infantry does not exist nor the synergy between Air Support and Ground control does not exist. Which mean Column of armor are in one place and the infantry is in another, leaving both exposed. And Air Support did not come in time to save either one. That is the current problem the Russian have. The Command and Control element is not there. Unit are basically fighting on their own...

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## Song Hong

Russian ground forces are not attacking Kiev in earnest.


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## jhungary

Dustom999 said:


> If you have to mention every second post how you served in/with US Army, that too in some places investigating Homicide, sometimes running intelligence ops, you seems to be trying too hard.
> With you command of english language, missing and messing up simple past, present and future tenses in short sentences and other basics of the language, probably 18 yr old with CoD installation bought on you papa's credit card.



Oh good, another grammar nazi.

First of all, English is NOT my first language, Spanish is. A mi papa es espanol y mi mama eres en China. Who said you have to speak English to be in the US Army? You do know there is a place called "Puerto Rico" in the US (Off Cuba and Florida) where nobody speak English, all Spanish, okay?









Puerto Rico - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Second of all, my previous avatar is my CIC card, so well,

No me ninguna de lingua, lo siento.

Dude, judge a person's post by what they say, not how they say it, okay?

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## alimobin memon

Russian forces shift gears: Russian forces appear to shift to siege warfare in Ukraine- U.S. official


WASHINGTON, Feb 27 (Reuters) - Russia, frustrated by early battlefield setbacks in Ukraine, could be shifting its strategy to siege warfare just as President Vladimir Putin raises the risk of a catastrophic miscalculation by putting nuclear forces on heightened alert, a senior U.S. defense...




www.dailymaverick.co.za





Ok so they are back on there usual practice, arty and arty

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## dBSPL

It has been reported that Russian citizens in Europe will be evacuated via Turkey.


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## Signalian

jhungary said:


> This strategy depends on 24/7 CAS and Gunship support, accurate artillery and a clear defined target , you take the arae quadrant by quadrant, phase line by phase line. As far as I can see, the synergy between the Armor and Infantry does not exist nor the synergy between Air Support and Ground control does not exist. Which mean Column of armor are in one place and the infantry is in another, leaving both exposed. And Air Support did not come in time to save either one. That is the current problem the Russian have. The Command and Control element is not there. Unit are basically fighting on their own...


This is another learning curve for the Russians then, the Ukrainian soil, after the Syrian war ofcourse. I was hoping to see more use of aviation assets including UCAVs. The Russians could have mastered their command/control structure by the end of their involvement in Syrian conflict but it seems a lot is left to be desired. Usa, NATO and China would be looking intently at Russian execution of this campaign. If it shows a lot of weak points, NATO will surely be exploiting them in future.

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## dBSPL

Russian ruble suffered the biggest loss in history against the dollar: $1 = 115 rubles

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## Signalian

alimobin memon said:


> Russian forces shift gears: Russian forces appear to shift to siege warfare in Ukraine- U.S. official
> 
> 
> WASHINGTON, Feb 27 (Reuters) - Russia, frustrated by early battlefield setbacks in Ukraine, could be shifting its strategy to siege warfare just as President Vladimir Putin raises the risk of a catastrophic miscalculation by putting nuclear forces on heightened alert, a senior U.S. defense...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymaverick.co.za
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok so they are back on there usual practice, arty and arty


Waiting for Ukrainians to oust their president and take control from him to handover to Russians.

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## serenity

Dustom999 said:


> If you have to mention every second post how you served in/with US Army, that too in some places investigating Homicide, sometimes running intelligence ops, you seems to be trying too hard.
> With you command of english language, missing and messing up simple past, present and future tenses in short sentences and other basics of the language, probably 18 yr old with CoD installation bought on you papa's credit card.



Because Jhungry talks a lot of nonsense. Ignore him. Pretending to be many things and already got heaps of details and conclusions wrong.

For example not realizing that Russia has been holding back somewhat in their first week strategy of prodding to see if they can use minimal force to try and create enough waves of surrender. That seems to not be working. They may scale back and return with heavier firepower. Russia has not sent their more modern weapons at all and the UAF is still operating. If it is not holding back all out war, then they would first take out UAF and key infrastructure everywhere would be destroyed. Russians are actually trying their brother please surrender and don't fight method first. It partially works but overall has not delivered the strategic objective so far. Although to be honest even at this force level, they are at least gaining ground until now. With more NATO amassing and more weapons being sent to Ukraine, Russians may adapt strategically.

Russia sent a few tens of thousands of troops rather than the hundreds of thousands on the borders surrounding Ukraine. I think the first low strength approach and despite higher risk and higher loss for Russia to use this method, they hoped the Ukrainians would go for peace talks ASAP and Zelensky removed or given up. This hasn't worked so now Russians are shifting their strategy. The world is watching both sides (NATO too) closely and worried about escalations.

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## dBSPL

Oleg Anisimov, head of the Russian delegation to the UN climate conference, apologized for the Russian military operation in Ukraine; “Let me apologize on behalf of all Russians who were unable to prevent this conflict,” he said.

Oh Putin, how did you make such a mistake? You ruined the whole plan.

Just a week ago, NATO was in shattered, now even the Russian opposition has gained great courage.

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## gambit

jhungary said:


> Well, you and me both, my friend.
> 
> I think the first thing is, people and country are different. A person can stay out of most thing, because you are in charge of you, On the other hand, for a leader (a free democratic leader, not a dictator) this is more or less a more complicated factor. Because there are always 2 groups of people seeing different things and whatever you do is not going to be satisfy by either one of them. And sometime, the best decision you come up with it not to make any decision at all. but then not doing them does not make them go away, it just delay the inevitable. *Not sure if that make any sense to you*...That is in most case why leader choose to be neutral and choose to appease.


It does make sense. Basically, what type of leader are you? The wishy-washy always seeking consensus type? Or the decision oriented shit-or-get-off-the-pot type? With the latter, you are going to be labeled as a 'strongman' by the side that did not get what they want. Which begs a question, though.

The world is filled with tyrants and none of them really like each other. So the question is: Is the closer you live to a tyrant, the greater the necessity that you are a tyrant in order present a strong image for your country, and if necessary, because you are a tyrant, you would be better and faster to mobilize the country to self defense? Similarly, if you are democratic country and if a tyrant's army is within 48 hrs march proximity, does it make sense to adopt an appeasement foreign affairs policy?

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## Joe Shearer

LeGenD said:


> Noted.
> 
> Members are advised to stick to the discussion on hand and not subject others to personal attacks in the process. Does not matters if you are in my good books or not. Post sensibly.





Dustom999 said:


> With you command of english language, missing and messing up simple past, present and future tenses in short sentences and other basics of the language, probably 18 yr old with CoD installation bought on you papa's credit card.


Please learn about members who have been present in the forum for years before making loose personal comments. Your remarks are embarrassing and avoidable.

Among other things you may find useful, ask the admin what is a Military Professional, and who are designated thus. It is not a compliment, it is a designation.

Stick to the topic and avoid personal attacks, please. The mods have a tough job; let's not make it harder.

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## Titanium100

I think the Russians are gonna take everything on the Eastern of the Dniper river plus some more including Kyiv.

This is my roughly estimation based on the classical Soviet divisions of Ukraine with MaloRossiya and NovoRossiya being annexed or taken by Russia who will create two new countries out of these two territories likely governed by LPR and DPR leaders each getting his own country.. Putin is creating two Belarus out of Ukraine and leave the remanants of Ukraine on the western part in line with historical lines or somewhat close to it. I think Russia will give this new Ukrainian state access to the Black sea on the beneath close to Romania and Moldava section so that they can have their own ports.







1. descalation forces will have to be stationed on the Ukrainian side post war or let me put it this way post first round of fighting. Zelenskyy and co including the rebels will across over to the new Ukrainian held areas.. But a peacekeeping force is needed to be put in between the new Malorossiya and Ukraine borders. Russia doesn't trust US or UK anywhere near them hence it has to be someone Russia can trust.

2. France and Turkey can deploy each 2500 peacekeeping force along the new line and Russia could consider them both neutral in a sense and it has worked with them in the past alot.

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## alimobin memon

dBSPL said:


> Oleg Anisimov, head of the Russian delegation to the UN climate conference, apologized for the Russian military operation in Ukraine; “Let me apologize on behalf of all Russians who were unable to prevent this conflict,” he said.
> 
> Oh Putin, how did you make such a mistake? You ruined the whole plan.
> 
> Just a week ago, NATO was in shattered, now even the Russian opposition has gained great courage.


He isn't against the conflict according to this phrase. It simply means they didn't have any other option so they are sorry to attack.

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## jhungary

Signalian said:


> This is another learning curve for the Russians then, the Ukrainian soil, after the Syrian war ofcourse. I was hoping to see more use of aviation assets including UCAVs. The Russians could have mastered their command/control structure by the end of their involvement in Syrian conflict but it seems a lot is left to be desired. Usa, NATO and China would be looking intently at Russian execution of this campaign. If it shows a lot of weak points, NATO will surely be exploiting them in future.


That's something I found odd too. 

No doubt, anyone would think Russian Air Asset are going to be make short work on Ukrainian, would expect complete air superiority over Ukraine probably the first 24 hours. But that did not happen. I mean I don't see many sortie launch from Russia anyway, I was reading some Intelligence report saying Russia lobbed over 400 missile, but only less than 1000 sorties over 5 days. That's really not a lot. 

I don't know if the Russia try to copy our playbook by starting an "Alpha Strike" and taking out all Air and Anti-Air asset, but that won't work unless you follow up with round the clock air patrol, SEAD and also targeting Radar or Early Warning Infrastructure. Which is something the Russian did not do. 

This seems to bug me the most, I mean it does not hurt anything to launch those aircraft, and with the sheer size of the Russian Air Force, they are more than a match to make Ukraine a "You Fly, You Die" scenario.

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## Mrc

siegecrossbow said:


> How does that make it any worse? That's the loss of several hundred million dollars, which would come in handy during sanctions.




True 

But some has noted absence of t 90s and other higher end stuff and relying on t 72s and bmp which are pretty much obsolete and due to retire anyways


----------



## patero

jhungary said:


> Oh good, another grammar nazi.
> 
> First of all, English is NOT my first language, Spanish is. A mi papa es espanol y mi mama eres en China. Who said you have to speak English to be in the US Army? You do know there is a place called "Puerto Rico" in the US (Off Cuba and Florida) where nobody speak English, all Spanish, okay?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Puerto Rico - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Second of all, my previous avatar is my CIC card, so well,
> 
> No me ninguna de lingua, lo siento.
> 
> Dude, judge a person's post by what they say, not how they say it, okay?


Good to see you back, even if its only temporary. Keep up the informative posts, I enjoy reading them. Hope life is well with you, and just ignore the haters.


----------



## Joe Shearer

serenity said:


> Because Jhungry talks a lot of nonsense. Ignore him. Pretending to be many things and already got heaps of details and conclusions wrong.
> 
> For example not realizing that Russia has been holding back somewhat in their first week strategy of prodding to see if they can use minimal force to try and create enough waves of surrender. That seems to not be working. They may scale back and return with heavier firepower. Russia has not sent their more modern weapons at all and the UAF is still operating. If it is not holding back all out war, then they would first take out UAF and key infrastructure everywhere would be destroyed. Russians are actually trying their brother please surrender and don't fight method first. It partially works but overall has not delivered the strategic objective so far. Although to be honest even at this force level, they are at least gaining ground until now. With more NATO amassing and more weapons being sent to Ukraine, Russians may adapt strategically.
> 
> Russia sent a few tens of thousands of troops rather than the hundreds of thousands on the borders surrounding Ukraine. I think the first low strength approach and despite higher risk and higher loss for Russia to use this method, they hoped the Ukrainians would go for peace talks ASAP and Zelensky removed or given up. This hasn't worked so now Russians are shifting their strategy. The world is watching both sides (NATO too) closely and worried about escalations.


A fair assessment. 

However, I object to people jumping to conclusions about another member's past life-history and actual knowledge and experience; it is sufficient to dismiss his conclusions and opinions, without going into personal matters - and, of course, without being wrong after being intrusive.

This is with reference to a very rude post that someone else wrote, and I hope you will read me in that context.

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## dBSPL

Manipulation and disinformation, which are war tactics, are at an extreme. Psychological superiority is just as important as military superiority. But one thing is clear: Turkey has wanted to be drawn into the war since day one by some other actors.

Russia's mistake reaches a level that will force Turkey strategically as well.

Russia should not be defeated. But the traditional Russian policy is based on constantly increasing hands. That's why it was nicknamed the bear. I do not know how it's going to be. But the nuclear threat is just a show of desperation.

We tried to warn Putin, that's why we invited him to Istanbul, but we could not convince him against this trap.

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> It has been reported that Russian citizens in Europe will be evacuated via Turkey.


And this is a dangerous precedent. Already we can see a rise in xenophobia against Russians. 

People will target Russians and in Europe and further a field anyone with a Slavic name or accent will become the target of hostility.

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## arjunk

Idiots think they will be blowing up farmers with drones 10000 miles away. A peer to peer war will come right to their doorstep and they will be begging for peace (remember the target demographic of CNN).

Besides, NATO and Russia destroying each other leaves China to become the next major power. I hope NATO isn't stupid enough to be blinded by its own twitter warriors' narrative and risk a nuclear apocalypse over Ukraine.


The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497702745024966661


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## Muhammed45

Russia Ukraine negotiating table is ready. 





In Belarus.

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## Steppe Wolff

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498215732684992512


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## Vapnope

arjunk said:


> Idiots think they will be blowing up farmers with drones 10000 miles away. A peer to peer war will come right to their doorstep and they will be begging for peace (remember the target demographic of CNN).
> 
> Besides, NATO and Russia destroying each other leaves China to become the next major power. I hope NATO isn't stupid enough to be blinded by its own twitter warriors' narrative and risk a nuclear apocalypse over Ukraine.


NATO is not fighting yet. Russian side has not also exhausted its military assets. 
It looks more probing by Russia and less war to me.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498217031983935490

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## dBSPL

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497702745024966661


In the NATO-Russia tension, the fall of a single nuclear warhead anywhere in the world initiates a process that leads to complete extinction. And everything happens so fast that people don't even have time to say goodbye. Unfortunately, especially the young generation's brain is like dough because of too much computer games... When they watches a 5 season post-apocalyptic Netflix series and finishes a couple survival games; they thinks can save theirself.

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## Song Hong

Russian army is parking outside Kiev. Action has not began.

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## arjunk

Iron Shrappenel said:


> If I were PA.. I would be taking notes.... Newer anti tank weapons seem pivotal in modern warfare .. considering lack if aps on Indian armored tanks ... Top attack missiles it is...
> Imagine 1-2 launchers with 4 rounds at platoon level....
> APS for current inventory of leading tanks *including * Al-Zarrars should be top priority.....
> Instead of developing Al-Khalid 2 we should invest in anti tank missiles....
> We can work on an urban up armor kit for Al-Khalids with Turkey in line with Altay... And purchase some Altays specifically with Urban warfare in mind....




In the open deserts of Thar, Indian snipers will pick off ATGM wielders.


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## dBSPL

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498217031983935490


In my opinion, Russia will not accept these demands. Or rather, it cannot accept.

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> It does make sense. Basically, what type of leader are you? The wishy-washy always seeking consensus type? Or the decision oriented shit-or-get-off-the-pot type? With the latter, you are going to be labeled as a 'strongman' by the side that did not get what they want. Which begs a question, though.
> 
> The world is filled with tyrants and none of them really like each other. So the question is: Is the closer you live to a tyrant, the greater the necessity that you are a tyrant in order present a strong image for your country, and if necessary, because you are a tyrant, you would be better and faster to mobilize the country to self defense? Similarly, if you are democratic country and if a tyrant's army is within 48 hrs march proximity, does it make sense to adopt an appeasement foreign affairs policy?


I don't think I was a leader, in fact, if you have my 201 file, you will probably see I am not a leader material, I have 2 strikes, I got put back to my promotion queue twice, and had I stayed in the Army, I would still be waiting my board meeting for my promotion to Major.

I am the caring type. I don't send my guys in a situation I won't go, and I don't see order as an absolute form (Now you probably understand why I have 2 strike) I listen and I act, I guess the pleaser type as we called (the one that seek consensus), is bad, because you have to understand, at the end of the day, there are no consensus, I say, you do. But on the other hand, I listen to what my Top (First Sergeant) say and I do that if I think that's right, I don't do that if I don't think so. Not sure how leadership is viewed in the Air Force, in the Army, Leadership is a balance between knowing the limit, and doing that despite your limit. As a 2LT, I have 43 men under my control, and since I cannot be 43 places at once, that mean I need to delegate that detail to my buck (Squad Sergeant) the thing is, you need to know their capability, and trust that they will do that to their best ability. Otherwise you will be micromanaging your platoon all the time and not get things done. So you need to give your men their value, and let go so they can do their job, which mean I don't want to hear them bitching about that, I tell you to do that because I know you can do it, and my word is final. That's my leadership style.

About the appeasement, I guess it is up to a point, I mean, there are no point antagonize a Bully, that's just looking for trouble. But when Bully try to come to you, you hit him, quick and hurt, let them know you are not going to type that is going to be roll over. And if I can't stand up to it, I will go look for help, appeasing a tyrant does not make it go away, it's like Ransom. You pay once, you pay forever. But then, that just me, I am pretty sure there are people who keep paying blackmailer forever.



patero said:


> Good to see you back, even if its only temporary. Keep up the informative posts, I enjoy reading them. Hope life is well with you, and just ignore the haters.


Thanks

you too mate

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## dBSPL

Russian Ministry of Defense:

"All faces, voices, phone numbers, their coordinates, IP addresses, as well as the correspondence of anyone involved in the abuse of our soldiers are recorded and identified. You will all be found and inevitably punished."

Look, if this statement is true, it's a case of utter desperation.

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## jhungary

serenity said:


> Because Jhungry talks a lot of nonsense. Ignore him. Pretending to be many things and already got heaps of details and conclusions wrong.
> 
> For example not realizing that Russia has been holding back somewhat in their first week strategy of prodding to see if they can use minimal force to try and create enough waves of surrender. That seems to not be working. They may scale back and return with heavier firepower. Russia has not sent their more modern weapons at all and the UAF is still operating. If it is not holding back all out war, then they would first take out UAF and key infrastructure everywhere would be destroyed. Russians are actually trying their brother please surrender and don't fight method first. It partially works but overall has not delivered the strategic objective so far. Although to be honest even at this force level, they are at least gaining ground until now. With more NATO amassing and more weapons being sent to Ukraine, Russians may adapt strategically.
> 
> Russia sent a few tens of thousands of troops rather than the hundreds of thousands on the borders surrounding Ukraine. I think the first low strength approach and despite higher risk and higher loss for Russia to use this method, they hoped the Ukrainians would go for peace talks ASAP and Zelensky removed or given up. This hasn't worked so now Russians are shifting their strategy. The world is watching both sides (NATO too) closely and worried about escalations.


I NEVER said what I said is completely correct. In fact, the first thing I said is that I don't know how Russia operate, I was trained by the West, I know what the West do, I studied Soviet and Russia order of battle, take it as you will.

I am not going to contest with you, you have your opinion, I will not come out to everyone and say "Hey you are wrong" I know this is a very Chinese thing to do, this is not my style. I said what I said using my experience of leading my own troop into battle. Unless every war is the same, stuff are going to be different.

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498153501150650368
Translation for non Urdu audience: 

Prime Minister Imran Khan will address the nation this evening, taking the nation into confidence on the economy and global challenges after the Russia-Ukraine conflict.

Tldr: this is mainly for local consumption on file insecurity and rising cost of fuel and industrial / household utilities.

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## Titanium100

Song Hong said:


> Russian army is parking outside Kiev. Action has not began.



The chechens have encircled Kyiv and it is fully besieged nobody can exit or enter Kyiv

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## Enigma SIG

Titanium100 said:


> The chechens have encircled Kyiv and it is fully besieged nobody can exit or enter Kyiv





https://www.rt.com/russia/550814-russia-kiev-safe-passage/



Tells you what's coming in case the talks breakdown.

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## RescueRanger

dear respected and valued members, each of you have opinions and should express them here at PDF. I have learned a lot from people on this forum.

Heated debates can be healthy and can help bring about thought change. But healthy debate should not be used as a means of personally attacking anyone based on their background, profession, personal opinion, race, colour, creed, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, disability or any other factor which makes them a unique and individual person.

Each members self-esteem and human dignity must be respected whilst exercising your own personal views and opinions.

Please let’s keep this thread clear of any further personal attacks on each other, post relevant and necessary replies and fact-check things we share.

I will start giving negative ratings and reporting those who abuse individual members, or troll/detail this thread.

If you have a complaint, please use the report feature or open a thread in GHQ section where the admin of the website will address your complaint.

Finally please may I take a moment to steal myself from this rant and ask that we all take a minute to reflect on every soul lost due to conflict around the world. 

Thank you.

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## dBSPL

Denmark will allow its citizens to go to Ukraine and fight against Russia. After the UK, other European countries follow the same path.

This will allow security companies (you know what I mean) to enter Ukraine in a more open and legitimized way.

On the other hand, many criminal and mentally ill profiles will go to Ukraine. They will receive unconventional warfare training and have access to weapons. If this war takes on a similar character to the Syrian civil war, its sociological consequences could shake Europe to its core.

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## Iron Shrappenel

arjunk said:


> In the open deserts of Thar, Indian snipers will pick off ATGM wielders.


And vice versa.... If the push is anything like the Russian one... It's going to be hell for them.....


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## Muhammed45

@vostok sir, we miss you here. As a Pro Russian Ukrainian you should have a lot of stories to tell us.

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## RescueRanger

Enigma SIG said:


> https://www.rt.com/russia/550814-russia-kiev-safe-passage/
> 
> 
> 
> Tells you what's coming in case the talks breakdown.


Let’s hope both sides let sanity prevail.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498005676488114186

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498221892708311043


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## gambit

beijingwalker said:


> Because Russians know they are no fighting Nato or US and Russia airforce will control the skies, it's the fastest way to move their troops and equipments, surely they did the necessary analysis and make every maneuver on case by case basis. Judging from the overall result, it's not a bad move at all.


Regarding that picture of the Russian army convoy...

A convoy is when individual soldiers and equipment are at their most vulnerable. They are restricted. The soldiers seated. The equipment strapped down.

Except for heavys, every fighter would get engorged at seeing that picture of that Russian army convoy in closed column. A close column is when there are little spacings between vehicles. An open column is when there are tens of meters, or greater, between vehicles. With an open column, individuals have greater room for maneuvers should the convoy come under attack from any direction and/or source. Cluster munitions and artillery have lesser effects on an open column. The JDAM blast radius can reach out to 300 meters. A close column create greater intensity of IR due to the mutual amplification from the vehicles being in near proximity to each other. An open column diffuses IR and even make it easier to mask individual IR. Chemical attacks have lesser effects on an open column.

You do not know if the Russian convoy commander believe that his convoy is safe. But if you are in enemy territory and if you know your air force does not have control above, a close column is a gamble that Vegas would love to give you.

Strikes love close column.

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## Song Hong

I bet Assad troops who participate in Aleppo seige is also joining this Kyiv campaign.

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## OldTwilight

dBSPL said:


> Denmark will allow its citizens to go to Ukraine and fight against Russia. After the UK, other European countries follow the same path.
> 
> This will allow security companies (you know what I mean) to enter Ukraine in a more open and legitimized way.
> 
> On the other hand, many criminal and mentally ill profiles will go to Ukraine. They will receive unconventional warfare training and have access to weapons. If this war takes on a similar character to the Syrian civil war, its sociological consequences could shake Europe to its core.


o EU wants to send its criminal and ruthless people to Ukraine ....


guess who will suffer much , who will get raped and rapers will blame Russians in middle of chaos....


now main export of EU is criminals and mentally ill people ...

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## IblinI

A lots of Nazi inside the encirclement


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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> Denmark will allow its citizens to go to Ukraine and fight against Russia. After the UK, other European countries follow the same path.
> 
> This will allow security companies (you know what I mean) to enter Ukraine in a more open and legitimized way.
> 
> On the other hand, many criminal and mentally ill profiles will go to Ukraine. They will receive unconventional warfare training and have access to weapons. If this war takes on a similar character to the Syrian civil war, its sociological consequences could shake Europe to its core.



This will be the undoing of Europe, the white Taliban 😂. Idiots don’t learn from history.

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## Titanium100

dBSPL said:


> Denmark will allow its citizens to go to Ukraine and fight against Russia. After the UK, other European countries follow the same path.
> 
> This will allow security companies (you know what I mean) to enter Ukraine in a more open and legitimized way.



Wow I am surprised by my gov't..

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## Song Hong

The Russian is sieging these Nazi but not attacking them at the moment. But Russian Electronics Warfare seems to be quite bad at the moment, or not sure if she is getting more EW weapons into action.

Most Nazi will vaporized and surrender once communications are cut between HQ and field

The situation that Zelensky keep broadcasting unfettered shows that Russians EW is not able to cut off Ukraine communications (obviously with help of western EW and secure comms)

I guess Russian is waiting for her EW to work first. Cut off the communications and let Nazi surrenders. Then foot soldiers will flush out the remaining hardcore rats.


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## dBSPL

Su-34s are beautiful birds


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498209148609212418

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498130837702914064


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## Titanium100

Enigma SIG said:


> https://www.rt.com/russia/550814-russia-kiev-safe-passage/
> 
> 
> 
> Tells you what's coming in case the talks breakdown.



the Russians know this talks ain't going anywhere.. Hence they will try to lay down the pipe

28 Feb, 2022 07:20
HomeRussia & FSU
Russian military offers 'safe passage' for evacuation from Kiev​Moscow urges civilians to evacuate from the Ukrainian capital




The Russian Defense Ministry has called on Ukrainian civilians to evacuate from Kiev. They can do so by taking the highway towards Vasilkov, a city located 20km southwest of the capital, it said in a statement on Monday, claiming that _“this direction is open and safe.”_

The ministry added that Russia _“only attacks military objects”_ and insisted that the civilian population will not be at risk.

The call came on Monday as the Ukrainian and Russian delegations are set to start peace talks in Belarus. President Volodymyr Zelensky said in a public address, from Kiev, that he had low expectations for the negotiations. His country does not intend to surrender, he added.

Kiev Mayor Vitali Klitschko told AP on Sunday that the city was fully encircled by Russian troops, but backtracked on the claim later.

READ MORE: Kiev’s mayor says city ‘encircled,’ then backtracks
The Ukrainian government earlier distributed firearms to civilians, released felons with military experience from prison, and called on the people to prepare firebombs to fight Russian troops.

Russia attacked Ukraine on Thursday, claiming that the country had to be demilitarized and _“denazified”_ to protect the breakaway regions of Donetsk and Lugansk, as well as Russia.



https://www.rt.com/russia/550814-russia-kiev-safe-passage/


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## jhungary

serenity said:


> Yeah and I'm a four star general. Come on. We both know your posting history on this forum. You are no more a real solider than I am the President of China.
> 
> We cannot make claims of our identity online and then use those claims to make statements lending credence to claims.
> 
> You cannot say your are a soldier and so you know xyz. Especially when what you have said in entirety represents such a poor understanding of both ground realities and the nuances of the situation.
> 
> Saying hey you are wrong is certainly NOT unique to Chinese. Here you starting this racist bullshit and stereotyping again reveals your true nature. It is not a very Chinese thing to do anymore than it is a very American, Russian, Indian, Pakistani, Islamic, etc etc thing to do.
> 
> If you're annoyed someone responds to your claims of being a soldier with bullshit, either prove it or understand that with your claim of being xyz, there is every right for others to say "lol sure thing buddy".
> 
> I questioned your identity for separate reason because of the pointlessness of trying to get internet people to listen to you because you are supposedly a soldier. The actual content of what you have said is ... simply a poor understanding and analysis of the conflict's details.
> 
> None of us know enough real details to make the crazy judgements and statements you have made. Even then, most of those are already objectively false... let's start with how you can be surprised at how poorly Russia is performing when you don't even know the details as none of us do. There is total fog of war and more misinformation and propaganda than there is shreds of truth. Even the shreds of truth are totally removed from context and the big picture status of things.
> 
> You are currently like a man looking at a microscope of one thing that you are not sure of and then commenting "yep... this is an elephant and I'm surprised how pink this elephant is... guys I'm a veterinarian and know elephants well".
> 
> I won't bother responding to you since all wanted to say has been said.


As @Joe Shearer said Maybe you should ask the mod what is a "Military Professional" in this group and how I come to have that title

I am not pretending to be know it all, I said what I said, using my own experience, you don't believe that experience is real, that's fine. I don't force you to believe what I said is real, in fact, I always say this my own personal experience could be wrong.

I did not ask for that title, someone gave it to me, and judging from why they gave me that title, I would think someone on top of the echelon think I deserve it for whatever reason. But then that have nothing to do with what I say in this forum, with or without the title. I will say the same thing, I don't go around and say "My opinion is correct and yours are wrong" Opinion is an opinion there are no right and wrong.

I mean, If the military thing is really bothering you, I have bunch of photo of me in Iraq and Afghanistan, I have my 201 file, 214 and 215 file I can show you, I can show you my VA card and so on, since you and I both in Australia, this would be easy enough to do. I can even show you my old Uniform, anything you want to know. But then what changes? Nothing, I am not the one that come with this title, I am the person who come with my experience. And I wrote what I wrote according to my own experience. You may not like what I wrote, and if it does, you will not like what I wrote me just because I show you my photo in Iraq and Afghanistan. It will still be the same.

So, you need to make a decision, were I bugging you because you think I am stolen valor? Or just because I say stuff that you don't like? As I said, if this is the first one, that's easy enough to fix, but if this is the latter, then I am sorry, I am ALWAYS going to be that way.

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## dBSPL

Let's measure the level of knowledge of the forum: If you notice, both helicopters and, where possible, fighters and bombers fly very low over residential areas.

What do you think is the reason for this? Does this increase or decrease the threat of MANPADS?


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## NotSure

What if Russia Wins? ​


> When Russia joined the ongoing civil war in Syria, in the summer of 2015, it shocked the United States and its partners. Out of frustration, then President Barack Obama claimed that Syria would become a “quagmire” for Russia and Russian President Vladimir Putin. Syria would be Russia’s Vietnam or Putin’s Afghanistan, a grievous mistake that would eventually rebound against Russian interests.
> 
> 
> Syria did not end up as a quagmire for Putin. Russia changed the course of the war, saving Syrian President Bashar al-Assad from impending defeat, and then translated military force into diplomatic leverage. It kept costs and casualties sustainable. Now Russia cannot be ignored in Syria. There has been no diplomatic settlement. Instead, Moscow has amassed greater regional clout, from Israel to Libya, and retained a loyal partner in Assad for Russia’s power projection. In Syria, what the Obama administration failed to anticipate was the possibility that Russia’s intervention would succeed.



Not a bad read compared to the standard propaganda comes out of Washington and London.

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## Titanium100

dBSPL said:


> Let's measure the level of knowledge of the forum: If you notice, both helicopters and, where possible, fighters and bombers fly very low over residential areas.
> 
> What do you think is the reason for this? Does this increase or decrease the threat of MANPADS?



Good question.. Many layman won't understand.

It is in order to avid Air defense radar's and also surface to air missiles and even enemy fighters


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## jhungary

dBSPL said:


> Let's measure the level of knowledge of the forum: If you notice, both helicopters and, where possible, fighters and bombers fly very low over residential areas.
> 
> What do you think is the reason for this? Does this increase or decrease the threat of MANPADS?


The lower the fly over the less time for the ground threat to engage (That's an angle thing). You can also use the geo-heat to shield your heat signature, if you are in place like Iraq or Afghanistan.

In general, we don't have chopper fly over when there is a creditable MANPAD threat. but Fast Air and sometime AC-130 Gunship is unlimited (mostly at night)

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## Paul2

dBSPL said:


> Let's measure the level of knowledge of the forum: If you notice, both helicopters and, where possible, fighters and bombers fly very low over residential areas.
> 
> What do you think is the reason for this? Does this increase or decrease the threat of MANPADS?



generally decreases, especially over forested terrain.

It's obvious both sides are afraid to fly high because of active AA on both sides

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## RescueRanger

The skies above Europe are busy today.

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## jhungary

dBSPL said:


> Let's measure the level of knowledge of the forum: If you notice, both helicopters and, where possible, fighters and bombers fly very low over residential areas.
> 
> What do you think is the reason for this? Does this increase or decrease the threat of MANPADS?


I have one.

What do you do if you want to take a dump in combat?

LOL

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## Apollon

Putin ruined his country completly. But its amazing how united EU acts. Stay strong Ukraine

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> generally decreases, especially over forested terrain.
> 
> It's obvious both sides are afraid to fly high because of active AA on both sides


Yeah, the "Break Lock" thing is a scam, it only happened on Video Game. If you move your sensor over a tree, you still have the lock, because sometime the IR beam can piece thru the canopy and sometime your system have way to track the target. Most MANPAD is to some degree (have to highlight the "TO SOME DEGREE") fire and forget.


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## gambit

jhungary said:


> I don't think I was a leader,..


I was talking about political leadership. The 'you' was generic. In the end, a decision must be made, even if you ended up disappointing or even offends 1/2 of the people. You can say that since they did not vote for you, why should you care. But this is one area of leadership that I did not received from PME. For people like us, leadership is usually direct. But in the political realm, it is about making deals, the goodies are apportioned, and decision making processes are usually circuitous, not straight 'I say, you do' like we were used to.

So for me looking at the world thru a realpolitik filter, I have no problems with semi-autocratic leaders as allies, especially if they live close to tyrants. That does not say I share their values, but only that if for no other reasons at all, they at least serves as trigger wires should it come down to a war. Right now, it seems the West is realizing that the Cold War never actually ended, and maybe we need to lower our political standards a notch or even two.

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## dBSPL

Titanium100 said:


> Good question.. Many layman won't understand.
> 
> It is in order to avid Air defense radar's and also surface to air missiles and even enemy fighters


Commonly used systems have Infrared homing. In other words, the missile tries to adjust the angle of attack with the engine temperature of the target. Low flight reduces reaction time for countermeasure. So why do pilots ignore this risk for what advantage?

Here is the short answer:


jhungary said:


> The lower the fly over the less time for the ground threat to engage (That's an angle thing). You can also use the geo-heat to shield your heat signature, if you are in place like Iraq or Afghanistan.
> 
> In general, we don't have chopper fly over when there is a creditable MANPAD threat. but Fast Air and sometime AC-130 Gunship is unlimited (mostly at night)

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> I was talking about political leadership. The 'you' was generic. In the end, a decision must be made, even if you ended up disappointing or even offends 1/2 of the people. You can say that since they did not vote for you, why should you care. But this is one area of leadership that I did not received from PME. For people like us, leadership is usually direct. But in the political realm, it is about making deals, the goodies are apportioned, and decision making processes are usually circuitous, not straight 'I say, you do' like we were used to.
> 
> So for me looking at the world thru a realpolitik filter, I have no problems with semi-autocratic leaders as allies, especially if they live close to tyrants. That does not say I share their values, but only that if for no other reasons at all, they at least serves as trigger wires should it come down to a war. Right now, it seems the West is realizing that the Cold War never actually ended, and maybe we need to lower our political standards a notch or even two.


Sorry, thought you asked my command style.....

I think a good political leader is depends on which kind of policy you pursuit. Let me ask you a question, do you think Ronald Regean is a Good Leader? How he comapred with Bill Clinton?

Political leader have to be strong as steel but flexible as Plastic, that does not mean appeasement, no sir. That mean you have to be able to make decision and stick with it, but then you also need to have the flexibility to adjust your policy as it goes, no one policy goes forever, which mean while you need to stand by your decision, but you also need to be able to adjust it.



dBSPL said:


> Commonly used systems have Infrared homing. In other words, the missile tries to adjust the angle of attack with the engine temperature of the target. Low flight reduces reaction time for countermeasure. So why do pilots ignore this risk for what advantage?
> 
> Here is the short answer:


So did I pass??

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## NotSure

Indian Libertarian said:


> Why is Western Media so late to report this stuff. I thought Russia took it many hours ago.


Because it does not fit the "ukraine stronk, Nato stronk" narrative.

Surprise, surprise, but our so called free press is not free, it is a propaganda tool like it always was in ALL countries through all times. Nothing changed.



Apollon said:


> Putin ruined his country completly. But its amazing how united EU acts. Stay strong Ukraine


Sure, sure, the ukropian Endsieg is near. Even the Volkssturm they try to imitate.

Very hard times for our Greek Nazi, thinking he is some kind of a Herrenmensch, because he is living in the Banana Republic Deutschland, aka BRD.

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## RescueRanger

*Geolocation for the large Russian troop position outside Ivankov. *

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## Titanium100

jhungary said:


> Sorry, thought you asked my command style.....
> 
> I think a good political leader is depends on which kind of policy you pursuit. Let me ask you a question, do you think Ronald Regean is a Good Leader? How he comapred with Bill Clinton?
> 
> Political leader have to be strong as steel but flexible as Plastic, that does not mean appeasement, no sir. That mean you have to be able to make decision and stick with it, but then you also need to have the flexibility to adjust your policy as it goes, no one policy goes forever, which mean while you need to stand by your decision, but you also need to be able to adjust it.
> 
> 
> So did I pass??



I think we passed both but you just happened to explain more the anatomy whereas I touch on the surface


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## dBSPL

jhungary said:


> So did I pass??


Assuming you're a pro, you've probably given incomplete information on purpose, but again, that was a good enough answer as far as we need to knew. The part you skipped: We cannot keep the battery that cools the seeker head on all the time. This slightly extends the firing preparation time of the MANPADS operator. If the target is flying too low this gives us a very short interval to angle of attack.

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## alimobin memon

Mrc said:


> True
> 
> But some has noted absence of t 90s and other higher end stuff and relying on t 72s and bmp which are pretty much obsolete and due to retire anyways


In previous pages I said the same, people are confusing t64, t80 with t90. But there is no t90.


----------



## thetutle

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Russia is in control , simple to tell it has gone into Ukraine from 3 sides and unopposed
> Russia's objective was buffer state and that objective is met , Kiev will be icing on cake and it will be used as a bargin chip to negotiate acceptance of new border with Ukraine's new Head of state
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The weapons coming in from Poland won't matter as the war will be over in 2-3 weeks after Russian objectives are met , with Ukraine Surrender and acceptance of Kiev Accords , anticipate Kiev will be returned to Ukraine contol from Russia to close out the deal


This is total fantasy. Russia wants all of Ukraine and even parts of Moldova. Maybe even all of Moldova. And the Baltics. It will go for the Blatics as well. And al the central asian republics and possibly Azerbaijan. 

This is Russias aim long term. But the way things are going, is also quite likely there will be no more Russia soon.

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## Titanium100

thetutle said:


> This is total fantasy. Russia wants all of Ukraine and even parts of Moldova. Maybe even all of Moldova. And the Baltics. It will go for the Blatics as well. And al the central asian republics and possibly Azerbaijan.
> 
> This is Russias aim long term. But the way things are going, is also quite likely there will be no more Russia soon.



I can guaraantee you Russia doesn't want to go for the Central Asian republics they are to different from Russia but rather it wants to go for Ukraine, perhaps part of Moldova and Finland not the baltics or atleast not for now but in the end game due to NATO. Russia seeks Russian people and ethnicities


----------



## jhungary

dBSPL said:


> Assuming you're a pro, you've probably given incomplete information on purpose, but again, that was a good enough answer as far as we need to knew. The part you skipped: We cannot keep the battery that cools the seeker head on all the time. This slightly extends the firing preparation time of the MANPADS operator. If the target is flying too low this gives us a very short interval to angle of attack.


Nah, not a Pro, I am not a MANPAD operator, I trained with it, sure, like if you give me one, I can use it and probably shoot down a chopper (same thing with Javelin) with it and that was 20 years ago. I have forgotten a lot of stuff since then

In the US, depends on your MOS, there are something you need to be proficient for, and something you just need to know how they operate. Anything other than that, is a short course you can take. For example, we can take a course for Force and Personnel Protection in the Army, but then that is an optional course, this is not going to cover the entire program/school for Personal and Force protection (which offered to the MP) You can cross train with almost anything, Medic, Weapon Maintenance, Vehicle Maintenance, cyberwarfare and so on and I just happened to cross train with Heavy Weaponry, I can use a M2, M240B, Carl Gustav 84mm, AT-4, Javelin, Stinger and 120mm mortar. I know how to use TOW missile because my first MOS is 19A...

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## thetutle

QWECXZ said:


> I doubt he would mind that though. Then Muslims can finally take revenge for how they have been treating refugees from war-torn Middle Eastern countries. But it will never get to that point fortunately.



No they will not be coming to seek assylum. They ill be coming to colonise 3.0.



Titanium100 said:


> I can guaraantee you Russia doesn't want to go for the Central Asian republics they are to different from Russia but rather it wants to go for Ukraine, perhaps part of Moldova and Finland not the baltics or atleast not for now but in the end game due to NATO. Russia seeks Russian people and ethnicities


Central asian republics will definitely be taken back Maybe not Tajikistan but Kazakstan definitely, at least any part of Kazakstan where any ethnic Russian ever lived. The Kazaks will have their part, they will get the same rights as Palestinians have in Israel. 

Russia is not seeking a new USSR, they are seeking a new Russian empire, in the image of Catherine the great.


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## QWECXZ

thetutle said:


> No they will not be coming to seek assylum. They ill be coming to colonise 3.0.


Except that this time they will be raped and impregnated as Asians are extremely more powerful than all of Europe combined with not an iota of doubt. So, do tell them to come, we are waiting for them.

By the way, last time we hosted Poles in Iran they were quite meek and submissive. I won't mind them to become refugees again.

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## RescueRanger

Kharkiv: A destroyed Ukrainian BTR-4 armored vehicle outside a school which has been completed destroyed as a result of fighting. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498234753946124288

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## jamahir

RescueRanger said:


> Footage emerges of the Ghost of Kiev:



@lastofthepatriots, they found your hero at last.

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## Apollon

NotSure said:


> Because it does not fit the "ukraine stronk, Nato stronk" narrative.
> 
> Surprise, surprise, but our so called free press is not free, it is a propaganda tool like it always was in ALL countries through all times. Nothing changed.
> 
> 
> Sure, sure, the ukropian Endsieg is near. Even the Volkssturm they try to imitate.
> 
> Very hard times for our Greek Nazi, thinking he is some kind of a Herrenmensch, because he is living in the Banana Republic Deutschland, aka BRD.



Im just happy to see that russia is destroyed. Their banks, airlines companies collapse.

Sberbanks european branch collapsed just today and is closed by ECB.


----------



## gambit

jhungary said:


> I think a good political leader is depends on which kind of policy you pursuit. Let me ask you a question, do you think Ronald Regean is a Good Leader? How he comapred with Bill Clinton?


I believe Raygun was a great leader. This is not idolatry from me. But first, some presidential background...

When I first came to the US, Gerald Ford was president. I had no frame of reference so I could say nothing about Ford whether he was 'good' or 'bad'. Then came Jimmy Carter, the Saudi oil embargo, and the economic downturn. The voters booted Carter and elect Ronald Reagan. To me, Raygun was my first president.

There were many debatable reasons why I believe Raygun was a great leader but I will restrict my reasons that are related to the current topic. Raygun was a great leader because his vision went over the Pacific and the Atlantic oceans. In other words, to Raygun, a tyrant 1000 miles away is no different than one mile away. To him, the geographical distance was irrelevant in terms of preparedness. That farsightedness attracted me. Of course, I was in the UK/CONEUR region to see what he was exhorting the American people about.

To me, an important part of being a great leader is to protect the country from external threats so that the people can have time to deal by themselves the country's internal flaws. Raygun understood that part of the American psyche better than most pols. It is not that the American people do not need leadership on domestic issues, but Raygun understood that to the American people, give them general goals and they prefer to work out the details on their own. Am not sure if Raygun discovered that or he revived that from past American leaders. I prefer Raygun's principles oriented style of leadership over Bill Clinton's often personal relationship 'I feel your pain' approach.


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## Vergennes



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## dBSPL

The Moscow stock exchange closed. It will not open today.

I don't think it will open tomorrow too.

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## jhungary

Ukraine invasion: Former Miss Ukraine picks up assault rifle and says anyone who crosses border 'will be killed'​Anastasia Lenna, who represented her country in the 2015 Miss Grand International beauty contest, has signed up to defend her home from Russian forces.

Monday 28 February 2022 04:38, UK






Image:Former Miss Ukraine has donned army boots and picked up an assault rifle. Pic: anastasiia.lenna

A former Miss Ukraine has donned army boots and picked up an assault rifle and vowed that anyone "who crosses the Ukrainian border with the intent to invade will be killed".
Anastasia Lenna, who represented her country in the 2015 Miss Grand International beauty contest, has signed up to defend her home from Russian forces.

"Everyone who crosses the Ukrainian border with the intent to invade will be killed!" a message posted on her Instagram on Saturday said.






Image:Ms Lenna represented Ukraine country in the 2015 Miss Grand International beauty contest. Pic: anastasiia.lenna
It was accompanied by a photo of armed soldiers blocking a road.
*Follow live updates: Ukraine says '4,300 Russian troops have been killed or injured'*

Advertisement
*'NATO should apply for entry into Ukraine'*

Another post said: "Our (Ukraine's) army is fighting in such a way that NATO should apply for entry into Ukraine."









Ukraine invasion: Former Miss Ukraine picks up assault rifle and says anyone who crosses border 'will be killed'


Anastasia Lenna, who represented her country in the 2015 Miss Grand International beauty contest, has signed up to defend her home from Russian forces.




news.sky.com





Please don't..........you are too beautiful.....

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## TheNoob

jhungary said:


> Ukraine invasion: Former Miss Ukraine picks up assault rifle and says anyone who crosses border 'will be killed'​Anastasia Lenna, who represented her country in the 2015 Miss Grand International beauty contest, has signed up to defend her home from Russian forces.
> 
> Monday 28 February 2022 04:38, UK
> 
> View attachment 819493
> 
> 
> Image:Former Miss Ukraine has donned army boots and picked up an assault rifle. Pic: anastasiia.lenna
> 
> A former Miss Ukraine has donned army boots and picked up an assault rifle and vowed that anyone "who crosses the Ukrainian border with the intent to invade will be killed".
> Anastasia Lenna, who represented her country in the 2015 Miss Grand International beauty contest, has signed up to defend her home from Russian forces.
> 
> "Everyone who crosses the Ukrainian border with the intent to invade will be killed!" a message posted on her Instagram on Saturday said.
> 
> View attachment 819494
> 
> 
> Image:Ms Lenna represented Ukraine country in the 2015 Miss Grand International beauty contest. Pic: anastasiia.lenna
> It was accompanied by a photo of armed soldiers blocking a road.
> *Follow live updates: Ukraine says '4,300 Russian troops have been killed or injured'*
> 
> Advertisement
> *'NATO should apply for entry into Ukraine'*
> 
> Another post said: "Our (Ukraine's) army is fighting in such a way that NATO should apply for entry into Ukraine."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine invasion: Former Miss Ukraine picks up assault rifle and says anyone who crosses border 'will be killed'
> 
> 
> Anastasia Lenna, who represented her country in the 2015 Miss Grand International beauty contest, has signed up to defend her home from Russian forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.sky.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please don't..........you are too beautiful.....



No wonder everyone other than Ukrainians aren't being allowed to cross.


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> NATO lost nothing in Ukraine (They were never theirs) but will probably gain Sweden and Finland or even Bosnia and Georgia as a member (Both Bosnia and Georgia are in latter stage of NATO membership application than Ukraine) . That creeps into Russia even more.



NATO definitely will gain Finland, if they have any sense. Bosnia is being blocked by the Serbs who live in Bosnia and their leader is very very close to Putin. He will soon be in jail or living in Moscow. So Bosnia will join. That will block any chance Russia has of securing a port or access in in the Adriatic. Bosnia is surrounded by NATO anyway, but its just another little nail in Russia's coffin.



Indian Libertarian said:


> Wonder if the sanctions will ever be dropped…Russia might become an Iran or North Korea.


History shows us that Western sanctions are dropped only after regime change.

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## dBSPL

"They are not a developing third world nation, this is Europe."
"Blue-eyed, blond-haired European people are being killed."

▪️These are European journalists, while making statements about the Russia-Ukraine war on live broadcast, horrified sentences they used.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497974245737050120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497974911566061571

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497977015663796229

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497984372414156800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498030323208269827

That's the western mentality.

Racist, discriminatory and arrogant as can be.

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## 313ghazi

jhungary said:


> The lower the fly over the less time for the ground threat to engage (That's an angle thing). You can also use the geo-heat to shield your heat signature, if you are in place like Iraq or Afghanistan.
> 
> In general, we don't have chopper fly over when there is a creditable MANPAD threat. but Fast Air and sometime AC-130 Gunship is unlimited (mostly at night)



@dBSPL thanks for the question, i wanted to know the exact same thing. 
@jhungary thanks for the answer.

It seemed really wierd to me seeing all this footage of low flying aircraft. Correct me if i misunderstood, but what you're saying is that by flying so low, their harder for MANPAD operators to spot because of angles and because the heat signature is hidden (at least in warmer countries). 

I have another question then - why are they flying within manpad range? Is that something they have to do in order to provide CAS? 

I would have assumed that strikes against static targets could be conducted using longer range stand off weaponry?

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## NotSure

Apollon said:


> Im just happy to see that russia is destroyed. Their banks, airlines companies collapse.
> 
> Sberbanks european branch collapsed just today and is closed by ECB.


Wait: I thought, nobody in the west wants to destroy russia? Only putins kremlin bots spreading this disinformation.

Maybe, maybe, many elites here in the west thinks exactly like you? And have exact the same megalomaniac attitude about controlling the whole world?

And after Selensky threatened going nuclear on the Munich Security Conference, and nobody in the west stopped him, the casus belli was there for russia.

YOU have started all this and you know it.

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> I believe Raygun was a great leader. This is not idolatry from me. But first, some presidential background...
> 
> When I first came to the US, Gerald Ford was president. I had no frame of reference so I could say nothing about Ford whether he was 'good' or 'bad'. Then came Jimmy Carter, the Saudi oil embargo, and the economic downturn. The voters booted Carter and elect Ronald Reagan. To me, Raygun was my first president.
> 
> There were many debatable reasons why I believe Raygun was a great leader but I will restrict my reasons that are related to the current topic. Raygun was a great leader because his vision went over the Pacific and the Atlantic oceans. In other words, to Raygun, a tyrant 1000 miles away is no different than one mile away. To him, the geographical distance was irrelevant in terms of preparedness. That farsightedness attracted me. Of course, I was in the UK/CONEUR region to see what he was exhorting the American people about.
> 
> To me, an important part of being a great leader is to protect the country from external threats so that the people can have time to deal by themselves the country's internal flaws. Raygun understood that part of the American psyche better than most pols. It is not that the American people do not need leadership on domestic issues, but Raygun understood that to the American people, give them general goals and they prefer to work out the details on their own. Am not sure if Raygun discovered that or he revived that from past American leaders. I prefer Raygun's principles oriented style of leadership over Bill Clinton's often personal relationship 'I feel your pain' approach.


I was born during Carter (I was 1 when he left) then live under Reagan for the next 8 years, my parent is not a fan of Raygun. I signed up after 1999 so it was during Clinton. 

I would say I won't follow Clinton to war, but I will probably follow Reagan. There are only 3 President I would follow to war. Washington, Eisenhower and Reagan (Yes, I will not follow Lincoln to war) But I have a 4th name. I will probably follow Zelenskyy if I was a Ukrainian.

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## vostok

Muhammed45 said:


> @vostok sir, we miss you here. As a Pro Russian Ukrainian you should have a lot of stories to tell us.


It is quite painful times for me. No will to prove something to anyone.

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## jhungary

TheNoob said:


> No wonder everyone other than Ukrainians aren't being allowed to cross.


LOL. 

I think this is for show tho, she probably wouldn't really pick up a rifle and fight. I am not sure...



vostok said:


> It is quite painful times for me. No will to prove something to anyone.


I know we have our difference, but I do feel for you, must not be good to be in a warzone. Especially under this circumstance.

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## SIPRA

vostok said:


> It is quite painful times for me. No will to prove something to anyone.



If you are in Ukraine, as your location flag shows; are you at some safe place?

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## reflecthofgeismar

QWECXZ said:


> I doubt he would mind that though. Then Muslims can finally take revenge for how they have been treating refugees from war-torn Middle Eastern countries. But it will never get to that point fortunately.


So, 40-50billion € a year spending on them and still let them here after doing a crime is "hard"?!
NOT one muslim country would spend so much money on saving non-muslims.


----------



## Apollon

NotSure said:


> Wait: I thought, nobody in the west wants to destroy russia? Only putins kremlin bots spreading this disinformation.
> 
> Maybe, maybe, many elites here in the west thinks exactly like you? And have exact the same megalomaniac attitude about controlling the whole world?
> 
> And after Selensky threatened going nuclear on the Munich Security Conference, and nobody in the west stopped him, the casus belli was there for russia.
> 
> YOU have started all this and you know it.



Putin also said nobody wants attack Ukraine. 

Things changed..what we see is the complete annihilation of russian interests, economy and aviation in Europe.

Russia plays no role in Europe anymore. Their richest lost 45% of their property in 24 h. 

I admire the will of Ukraine to fight. Our weapons guarantee endless insurgence against russian troops.


----------



## Enigma SIG

dBSPL said:


> "They are not a developing third world nation, this is Europe."
> "Blue-eyed, blond-haired European people are being killed."
> 
> ▪️These are European journalists, while making statements about the Russia-Ukraine war on live broadcast, horrified sentences they used.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497974245737050120
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497974911566061571
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497977015663796229
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497984372414156800
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498030323208269827
> 
> That's the western mentality.
> 
> Racist, discriminatory and arrogant as can be.


Bear in mind this is mainstream media with the majority of the populace sucking up to these fascists and their inhuman rhetoric.

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## QWECXZ

reflecthofgeismar said:


> So, 40-50billion € a year spending on them and still let them here after doing a crime is "hard"?!
> NOT one muslim country would spend so much money on saving non-muslims.


You're damn right that not even a single Muslim country would spend a penny on saving Europeans.
And you forget that the millions of these refugees you talk about are now refugees because of your wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, etc.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498241064347574272So sad. It gets rigid militarly as the pressure on Russia grows.


----------



## Enigma SIG

reflecthofgeismar said:


> So, 40-50billion € a year spending on them and still let them here after doing a crime is "hard"?!
> NOT one muslim country would spend so much money on saving non-muslims.


Doesn't take a genius to figure out that bombing other nations and getting their population to immigrate to your country is a non-starter.

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## NotSure

Apollon said:


> Putin also said nobody wants attack Ukraine.


Did you even read my post? I repeat: Selensky said on the Munich Security Conference, 19.2.22, that he wants nuclear weapons and nobody in the west stopped him!

This was the casus belli for Russia. This was the start of this war. Why nobody here in the west stopped him? Because that is exactly what they wanted. YOU started it all.

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> I have one.
> 
> What do you do if you want to take a dump in combat?
> 
> LOL



And sometimes MAN need PADs too

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> The Moscow stock exchange closed. It will not open today.
> 
> I don't think it will open tomorrow too.

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## Apollon

Russias largest bank Sberbank is about to collapse in Europe. ECB just froze them 









European subsidiary of Russia's Sberbank 'failing or likely to fail': ECB


The European subsidiary of Russia's state-owned Sberbank is facing bankruptcy, the European Central Bank said Monday, in the wake of sanctions aimed at punishing Moscow for its invasion of Ukraine.




www.france24.com


----------



## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> "They are not a developing third world nation, this is Europe."
> "Blue-eyed, blond-haired European people are being killed."
> 
> ▪️These are European journalists, while making statements about the Russia-Ukraine war on live broadcast, horrified sentences they used.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497974245737050120
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497974911566061571
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497977015663796229
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497984372414156800
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498030323208269827
> 
> That's the western mentality.
> 
> Racist, discriminatory and arrogant as can be.


Stomach churning is it not? Its only in times of crisis do you truly measure the mettle of men.

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## Titanium100

vostok said:


> It is quite painful times for me. No will to prove something to anyone.



Are you in Ukraine? and where in Ukraine seems like you can come online from there


----------



## dBSPL

NotSure said:


> Did you even read my post? I repeat: Selensky said on the Munich Security Conference, 19.2.22, that he wants nuclear weapons and nobody in the west stopped him!
> 
> This was the casus belli for Russia. This was the start of this war. Why nobody here in the west stopped him? Because that is exactly what they wanted. YOU started it all.



Ukraine has already chosen its own destiny, relying on the USA and Russia.

Ukraine is a vital lesson for Pakistan.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498239542943535108


----------



## RescueRanger

reflecthofgeismar said:


> So, 40-50billion € a year spending on them and still let them here after doing a crime is "hard"?!
> NOT one muslim country would spend so much money on saving non-muslims.


"Muslim" countries as you so eloquently put it were perfectly fine until someone decided to bring "freedom" to their doors.

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## reflecthofgeismar

QWECXZ said:


> You're damn right that not even a single Muslim country would spend a penny on saving Europeans.
> And you forget that the millions of these refugees you talk about are now refugees because of your wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, etc.


I was always against unnecessary wars/conflicts or which could have solved in a other way.
But I'm completely against taking people from other cultures, societies with other values and other ideologies.
BTW, I mean only Germany, with 40/50 billion spending for "refugees" (mostly young men who don't wanna work/integrate, are in fighting age and were even in their home country useless).


----------



## That Guy

Clutch said:


> Are these Russian Propaganda Channels??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://youtu.be/jiBXmbkwiSw
> https://youtu.be/xC1oCpnDURc
> https://youtu.be/5SBo0akeDMY
> https://youtu.be/iDG_hWlVda4


Azov Brigade is one volunteer battalion, nothing more.

Again, not proof that Zelensky is a nazi.

Russia also has the Russian Orthodox Army, which is a far-right fascist group. Wagner Group is also fascist.

Does that mean Russia deserves to be invaded, or that all of Russia is filled with nazis?

You're talking about a majority white nation, fascism nazi ideology is inevitably going to be there, as it is in all white majority countries.

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## jhungary

313ghazi said:


> @dBSPL thanks for the question, i wanted to know the exact same thing.
> @jhungary thanks for the answer.
> 
> It seemed really wierd to me seeing all this footage of low flying aircraft. Correct me if i misunderstood, but what you're saying is that by flying so low, their harder for MANPAD operators to spot because of angles and because the heat signature is hidden (at least in warmer countries).
> 
> I have another question then - why are they flying within manpad range? Is that something they have to do in order to provide CAS?
> 
> I would have assumed that strikes against static targets could be conducted using longer range stand off weaponry?



As I said, I actually don't know much about Manpad,

I learned how to use them, like how to turn the system on, insert the battery and track target and so on, what I know is that you only get a certain angle to lock your target, and due to the fact the further you are (The Higher) the easier to silhouette you against the sky and the lower you are, the quicker the relative speed toward you and it's hard to get a lock (I was taught something like that) I don't really into the gizmo or the physics/science behind them. @dBSPL probably know more.

I can tell you something about CAS tho, as I called in a few of those in my tour. What my AFO told me is that in order for a CAS to loiter, they need to stay low speed, and you cannot do that in high attitude, the lower the altitude, the more lift it generate to the aircraft, that is why you need them below certain "Envelope" CAS is not tactical strike. Tactical strike is you put a laser det and paint a target, and that would be your target (I have done that too) usually you go on a mission to seek out that specific target. Once that hit, you are gone.

CAS is when you need air support for a certain situation, you want them close to you, look out their cockpit and tell you what's ahead or beside you, they will need to look at the general situation and formulate a solution and provide you with support, that is why CAS usually are low and slow. Maybe @gambit would know more from the air?

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## That Guy

NotSure said:


> Did you even read my post? I repeat: Selensky said on the Munich Security Conference, 19.2.22, that he wants nuclear weapons and nobody in the west stopped him!
> 
> This was the casus belli for Russia. This was the start of this war. Why nobody here in the west stopped him? Because that is exactly what they wanted. YOU started it all.


This was not the casus belli, this is a lie, you are lying.

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## reflecthofgeismar

RescueRanger said:


> "Muslim" countries as you so eloquently put it were perfectly fine until someone decided to bring "freedom" to their doors.



Sure, Assad had that many problems in his country like mostly corruption and overpopulation.
I'm against that US, Saudi, Turks, Qataris and Israelis, "inviting" Russians and Iranians with their actions, set lever and fuel the domestic problems for their interests.
But what have I to do with Syrians?


----------



## RescueRanger

reflecthofgeismar said:


> Sure, Assad had that many problems in his country like mostly corruption and overpopulation.
> I'm against that US, Saudi, Turks, Qataris and Israelis, "inviting" Russians and Iranians with their actions, set lever and fuel the domestic problems for their interests.
> But what have I to do with Syrians?


What did the Syrians have to do with you? *That is the million dollar question! *

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> And sometimes MAN need PADs too


lol, yeah, was told, if you want to live, shit in front of us......Other just do it in their pants.......


----------



## NotSure

That Guy said:


> This was not the casus belli, this is a lie, you are lying.


Of course not, because having a nato puppet in Kiev with nuclear missiles with a flight time of 3-5 mins to moscow is complete irrelevant. It does not matter at all.

And people like you call themselfes "Think Tank". Oh god ...

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> NATO definitely will gain Finland, if they have any sense. Bosnia is being blocked by the Serbs who live in Bosnia and their leader is very very close to Putin. He will soon be in jail or living in Moscow. So Bosnia will join. That will block any chance Russia has of securing a port or access in in the Adriatic. Bosnia is surrounded by NATO anyway, but its just another little nail in Russia's coffin.
> 
> 
> History shows us that Western sanctions are dropped only after regime change.


yeah, that's why I said NATO is not a reason for this war. Because he pull them closer to him now that he started this.


----------



## Bilal.

Paul2 said:


> And sometimes MAN need PADs too



Wait till it gets renamed to a gender neutral nomenclature.


----------



## dBSPL

While 110,000 of our brothers and sisters were massacred in Bosnia, we did not see a tenth of the current arguments such - blue-eyed, blond-haired Europeans - in the western media. Disgusting, simply disgusting! 

Putin, you fell into the trap of these bastards!

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## jhungary

NotSure said:


> Of course not, because having a nato puppet in Kiev with nuclear missiles with a flight time of 3-5 mins to moscow is complete irrelevant. It does not matter at all.
> 
> And people like you call themselfes "Think Tank". Oh god ...


Well, if that is the case, then NATO can deploy their missile in Latvia, the Latvian border to Moscow is similar range than Ukraine (Map distant show Madona, Latvia - Ukraine is 410km, while Kharkiv to Moscow is 390km). 

Now that I am not saying Latvia will go nuclear, but the same toward Ukraine too.

Food for thought?


----------



## RescueRanger

Bilal. said:


> Wait till it gets renamed to a gender neutral nomenclature.


Person Portable Air-Defense System? PANPAD

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## Bilal.

dBSPL said:


> While 110,000 of our brothers and sisters were massacred in Bosnia, we did not see a tenth of the current arguments such - blue-eyed, blond-haired Europeans - in the western media. Disgusting, simply disgusting!
> 
> Putin, you fell into the trap of these bastards!


Back then done of us at least had the spine to fly in weapons and support to turn the tables. Now we are all neutered.

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## Titanium100

thetutle said:


> NATO definitely will gain Finland



He will never allow this to happen as long as his alive. I am talking from a stragetic and security measure level as Finland is a major security concern in Kremlin.. He will not allow NATO to gain that large northern border which is the largest border Russia has with anyone on the western side and difficult to defend in a future war with NATO.. You can write this down and bet your house on it


----------



## NotSure

Regarding the Manpads: The correct term you are searching for is "angular velocity". A low and fast flying target has a very high angular velocity, even if you can react fast enough AND can establish a lock, the missile simply do not have the kinematics to turn fast enough. So you always try to shoot, when the target is flying towards you, the best case, or away from you.

Manpads are good for angular velocities near zero, slow speeds and low altitudes.

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## jhungary

Bilal. said:


> Wait till it gets renamed to a gender neutral nomenclature.


That's quite gender neutral to me......

Man = Male
Pad = What female use for their monthly cycle...

Can't get more gender neutral than this...

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## dBSPL

Bilal. said:


> Wait till it gets renamed to a gender neutral nomenclature.


SJW alert SJW alert! 

- End gender discrimination in weapons systems.- 

LGBTPADS

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## That Guy

Negotiations have now officially begun.

[Edit] live stream of negotiations turned off.

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## jamahir

RescueRanger said:


> Kharkiv: A destroyed Ukrainian BTR-4 armored vehicle outside a school which has been completed destroyed as a result of fighting.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498234753946124288



Soon BBC, CNN etc will claim that the Russians destroyed this school and hide any visibility of the Ukranian BTR or will claim that the BTR came in to stop the Russians from destroying the school.



Apollon said:


> Im just happy to see that russia is destroyed. Their banks, airlines companies collapse.
> 
> Sberbanks european branch collapsed just today and is closed by ECB.



Why do you hate the Russians ?



dBSPL said:


> The Moscow stock exchange closed. It will not open today.
> 
> I don't think it will open tomorrow too.



Good time for the Russian Communists to propagate among the Russian people that stock exchanges, interest-based economics, private banks etc are something to be abolished. The people can appeal to the government.



jhungary said:


> Please don't..........you are too beautiful.....



No, she is definitely not !



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498239542943535108



Syrian army consultants should be enlisted by Russians in Ukraine. The Syrians have experience of such warfare. I say this even being someone not keen or knowledgeable about military matters.



That Guy said:


> Russia also has the Russian Orthodox Army, which is a far-right fascist group. Wagner Group is also fascist.



I believe Wagner is helping the Libyans against the NATO-supported Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood criminals.

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## QWECXZ

reflecthofgeismar said:


> I was always against unnecessary wars/conflicts or which could have solved in a other way.
> But I'm completely against taking people from other cultures, societies with other values and other ideologies.
> BTW, I mean only Germany, with 40/50 billion spending for "refugees" (mostly young men who don't wanna work/integrate, are in fighting age and were even in their home country useless).


Yes, but I wasn't talking about you, singular, as an individual.

Germany, and all European nations, have every right to refuse to accept refugees. I don't have a problem with that actually. But my initial statement that Muslims won't welcome you after the way they have been treated in recent decades, particularly after the Syrian civil war, stands completely valid.

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## jhungary

jamahir said:


> Soon BBC, CNN etc will claim that the Russians destroyed this school and hide any visibility of the Ukranian BTR or will claim that the BTR came in to stop the Russians from destroying the school.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you hate the Russians ?
> 
> 
> 
> Good time for the Russian Communists to propagate among the Russian people that stock exchanges, interest-based economics, private banks etc are something to be abolished. The people can appeal to the government.
> 
> 
> 
> No, she is definitely not !
> 
> 
> 
> Syrian army consultants should be enlisted by Russians in Ukraine. The Syrians have experience of such warfare. I say this even being someone not keen or knowledgeable about military matters.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe Wagner is helping the Libyans against the NATO-supported Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood criminals.


Everyone is.

I feel back for you if you cannot find human being beautiful.


----------



## dBSPL

Another Russian convoy was destroyed. The image is expected to leaked soon.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498249766483988484
*Negotiations started !*

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## Titanium100

Lukashenko warns of 3rd World War, as Belarus prepares to send troops​*The president denied that Belarus was taking part in the fighting, adding that no missiles were being fired from Belarusian territory • "Nuclear war is the end of everything"*​
Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko warned that Western sanctions were pushing Russia towards a "third world war," as _The Washington Post_ reported that Belarus was preparing to send troops into Ukraine on Sunday.


"In a situation like this, we should be aware that there are such sanctions. A great deal is being said about the banking sector. Gas, oil, SWIFT. It’s worse than war," said Lukashenko at a referendum on changing Belarus's constitution, according to the president's website. "Russia is being pushed towards a third world war. We should be very reserved and steer clear of it. Because nuclear war is the end of everything."

The Belarusian president stated that the retaliatory sanctions by Russia and Belarus would be very sensitive in order to ensure that they do not also impact them.









Lukashenko warns of 3rd World War, as Belarus prepares to send troops


The president denied that Belarus was taking part in the fighting, adding that no missiles were being fired from Belarusian territory • "Nuclear war is the end of everything"




www.jpost.com





---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I recall mentioning exactly this months ago that if you force Russia or hunger them they will have no other choice but to declare much bigger war and imho Russia could reach that treeshold as soon as in few weeks time where Russia could start an operation against all NATO nations bordering them? You may ask why and when? Only when Russia reaches a certain point where they have nothing to lose

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## jamahir

That Guy said:


> Does that mean Russia deserves to be invaded, or that all of Russia is filled with nazis?



But unlike in Ukraine the Nazis are not part of the Russian government and military. In fact there have been two photos of two Russian tanks in Ukraine carrying the USSR flag. One of the objectives of the Russian incursion is the de-Nazification of Ukraine.



jhungary said:


> Everyone is.
> 
> I feel back for you if you cannot find human being beautiful.



Come on, you are pretending now. What you write above is not what you meant in the previous post.


----------



## NotSure

jhungary said:


> Well, if that is the case, then NATO can deploy their missile in Latvia, the Latvian border to Moscow is similar range than Ukraine (Map distant show Madona, Latvia - Ukraine is 410km, while Kharkiv to Moscow is 390km).
> 
> Now that I am not saying Latvia will go nuclear, but the same toward Ukraine too.
> 
> Food for thought?


In theory they can do it and starting another wave of escalation. And this is the reason, the anglo saxons need to be kicked out of continental europe.

We need a de-anglonisation in europe and then in the whole world. Means kicking people like you out.

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## That Guy

dBSPL said:


> Another Russian convoy was destroyed. The image is expected to leaked soon.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498249766483988484
> *Negotiations started !*


But but but, I thought sanctions didn't do anything? 😭😭😭

Russia Stronk 🇷🇺 

Russia tank overrun pathetic EU and NATO....eventually, just as soon as they finish with Ukraine and rebuild their economy and military.

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## Ali_Baba

dBSPL said:


> Putin, you fell into the trap of these bastards!



Putin has fallen into a trap of his own making - he was just allowed to make that mistake and not stopped(which he could have been i reckon) - both with Europe where the sanctions will not be lifted until he withdraws from the whole of Ukraine - including Crimea.

Europe is united on not allowing new facts to be established on the ground. Whatever Putin thinks he gains now - he will lose later.

The sanctions are the Russian central bank are the most brutal thing i have seen in a long long long time. That will hurt Russia more than anything else.

The question is - did Putin fall into the Chinese trap also because Russia now will become China's poddle rather than an equal given the economic disparity between the two and the need for Russia to earn money to pay the bills.

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## INS_Vikrant

This war did prove that all the talk of a multipolar world order is pure BS
Balance of power is still highly tipped towards West/NATO

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## Bilal.

dBSPL said:


> SJW alert SJW alert!
> 
> - End gender discrimination in weapons systems.-
> 
> LGBTPADS


Nope LGBTQ+++PAD

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## RescueRanger

RescueRanger said:


> Kharkiv: A destroyed Ukrainian BTR-4 armored vehicle outside a school which has been completed destroyed as a result of fighting.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498234753946124288



I've spent my lunchtime trying to Geolocate the school and some other buildings, here is one of many I will upload later:

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## dBSPL

Another Mi-35 down

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498250644674727942

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## jhungary

NotSure said:


> In theory they can do it and starting another wave of escalation. And this is the reason, the anglo saxons need to be kicked out of continental europe.
> 
> We need a de-anglonisation in europe and then in the whole world. Means kicking people like you out.


So you think an invasion from Russia is NOT enough to call an "Escalation"?

Set aside what you think about European constitution, what next if Russia don't want to stop? Can you speak for your country what do they want? Can you speak for other country what do they want? 

That is the issue here, can't you see it?


----------



## Arbiter

jhungary said:


> Well, if that is the case, then NATO can deploy their missile in Latvia, the Latvian border to Moscow is similar range than Ukraine (Map distant show Madona, Latvia - Ukraine is 410km, while Kharkiv to Moscow is 390km).
> 
> Now that I am not saying Latvia will go nuclear, but the same toward Ukraine too.
> 
> Food for thought?


Strategically baltic nations aren't a threat. They are small nations that can easily be flattened by missile strikes from Russia. Also, Belarus and Kalingrad are a chokepoint for any land reinforcement from europe, so these nations can easily be blocked for european landmass.

But Ukrain is strategically crucial. Not only for the controll of the black sea but also it would put NATO just 400 km away from Volgograd (formerly known as Stalingrad - the name itself speaks of its importance) where most of Russian oil transports into the Russian heartland.

There are more reasons to why Ukraine is absolute necessary for Russian security but I will leave at this

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## jamahir

NotSure said:


> Very hard times for our Greek Nazi, thinking he is some kind of a Herrenmensch, because he is living in the Banana Republic Deutschland, aka BRD.



I have actually twice before told @Apollon that if he was living in Greece during World War 2 he would have been part of the anti-Communist anti-resistance Nazi militia the Security Battalion which was part of the Nazi collaborator government. For others this is a reference for that era.



Ali_Baba said:


> The sanctions are the Russian central bank are the most brutal thing i have seen in a long long long time. That will hurt Russia more than anything else.



If Putin nationalizes the Russian socio-economic system and even if he cuts away from dealing economically with the West and deals within the ally framework and also I think because Russia can self-sustain in many things I am sure Russia will ride the tide.

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## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> Putin has fallen into a trap of his own making - he was just allowed to make that mistake and not stopped(which he could have been i reckon) - both with Europe where the sanctions will not be lifted until he withdraws from the whole of Ukraine - including Crimea.
> 
> Europe is united on not allowing new facts to be established on the ground. Whatever Putin thinks he gains now - he will lose later.
> 
> The sanctions are the Russian central bank are the most brutal thing i have seen in a long long long time. That will hurt Russia more than anything else.
> 
> The question is - did Putin fall into the Chinese trap also because Russia now will become China's poddle rather than an equal given the economic disparity between the two and the need for Russia to earn money to pay the bills.


I think the better question you should ask is.

Do Putin Care?

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## dBSPL

Another Pantsir-S1

The vehicle is undamaged, abandoned because it got stuck in mud. If they're selling, let's raise money together and buy it.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498252630300188676

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## Titanium100

INS_Vikramaditya said:


> This war did prove that all the talk of a multipolar world order is pure BS
> Balance of power is still highly tipped towards West/NATO



That is not true..

The West-NATO has been intimidated into being cheerleaders and bystanders and now they will be threatened to undo the sanctions which they will do mark my words and on top of that Russia will go for Finland post this.

All of the sanctions on Russia will be lifted shortly as in days by that I mean the big once while the irrelevant once will stay


----------



## That Guy

Titanium100 said:


> Lukashenko warns of 3rd World War, as Belarus prepares to send troops​*The president denied that Belarus was taking part in the fighting, adding that no missiles were being fired from Belarusian territory • "Nuclear war is the end of everything"*​
> Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko warned that Western sanctions were pushing Russia towards a "third world war," as _The Washington Post_ reported that Belarus was preparing to send troops into Ukraine on Sunday.
> 
> 
> "In a situation like this, we should be aware that there are such sanctions. A great deal is being said about the banking sector. Gas, oil, SWIFT. It’s worse than war," said Lukashenko at a referendum on changing Belarus's constitution, according to the president's website. "Russia is being pushed towards a third world war. We should be very reserved and steer clear of it. Because nuclear war is the end of everything."
> 
> The Belarusian president stated that the retaliatory sanctions by Russia and Belarus would be very sensitive in order to ensure that they do not also impact them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lukashenko warns of 3rd World War, as Belarus prepares to send troops
> 
> 
> The president denied that Belarus was taking part in the fighting, adding that no missiles were being fired from Belarusian territory • "Nuclear war is the end of everything"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I recall mentioning exactly this months ago that if you force Russia or hunger them they will have no other choice but to declare much bigger war and imho Russia could reach that treeshold as soon as in few weeks time where Russia could start an operation against all NATO nations bordering them? You may ask why and when? Only when Russia reaches a certain point where they have nothing to lose


There is a clear differ3nce between Ukraine, and NATO.

And economic meltdown won't trigger the Russians to declare war on NATO. They'll instead look to China to save their economy. NATO has now seen what Russia is capable of, and its not impressed.

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## jhungary

Arbiter said:


> Strategically baltic nations aren't a threat. They are small nations that can easily be flattened by missile strikes from Russia. Also, Belarus and Kalingrad are a chokepoint for any land reinforcement from europe, so these nations can easily be blocked for european landmass.
> 
> But Ukrain is strategically crucial. Not only for the controll of the black sea but also it would put NATO just 400 km away from Volgograd where most of Russian oil transports into the Russian heartland.
> 
> There are more reasons to why Ukraine is absolute necessary for Russian security but I will leave at this


Actually Turkey control Black Sea, well, they are sitting at the exit of Black Sea....

As for the Baltic, isn't that exactly the reason why Latvia/Baltic need Air Defence system? And as I mentioned before, missile strike can't really level anything, you can literally see the effect of missile strike in this war.

So does the oil field in the Caucasus, you can attack from Turkey and north to reach there, and they can just as easy to take Georgia and Up to secure the oil field..

The only thing I can think of that is important to Russia is the industrial base, but I think it will hardly be any left and it also comes to question whether or not that base or even what you mentioned before worth all the sanction that comes with and the isolation that comes with?

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498254276711391235
lmao ukrainian farmers continue to steal abandoned russian equipments

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## That Guy

jamahir said:


> But unlike in Ukraine the Nazis are not part of the Russian government and military. In fact there have been two photos of two Russian tanks in Ukraine carrying the USSR flag. One of the objectives of the Russian Incursion is the de-Nazification of Ukraine.


Oh come on, you and I both know this is nothing more than propaganda. Why are we playing this game, when you know for a fact that this is a lie?

If you want to have a serious talk about this white war, drop the act and have a serious discussion with me.

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## ZeEa5KPul

That Guy said:


> But but but, I thought sanctions didn't do anything? 😭😭😭
> 
> Russia Stronk 🇷🇺
> 
> Russia tank overrun pathetic EU and NATO....eventually, just as soon as they finish with Ukraine and rebuild their economy and military.


This would mean something if the volume of currency transactions between dollars and rubles was anything above a trickle.


----------



## That Guy

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498254276711391235
> lmao ukrainian farmers continue to steal abandoned russian equipments


Lmao, good way to keep out thieves and cayotes.


----------



## Arbiter

jhungary said:


> Actually Turkey control Black Sea, well, they are sitting at the exit of Black Sea....
> 
> So does the oil field in the Caucasus, you can attack from Turkey and north to reach there, and they can just as easy to take Georgia and Up to secure the oil field..
> 
> The only thing I can think of that is important to Russia is the industrial base, but I think it will hardly be any left and it also comes to question whether or not that base or even what you mentioned before worth all the sanction that comes with and the isolation that comes with?


Turkey has control of the strait. The black sea itself is a Russian lake. Its the reason they annexed Crimea, so to not lose Sevastopol. And no you cant attack from Turkey because of caucasus mountain range. Its far more difficult. The terrain in Ukraine to Volgograd is flat.


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Soon BBC, CNN etc will claim that the Russians destroyed this school and hide any visibility of the Ukranian BTR or will claim that the BTR came in to stop the Russians from destroying the school.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you hate the Russians ?
> 
> 
> 
> Good time for the Russian Communists to propagate among the Russian people that stock exchanges, interest-based economics, private banks etc are something to be abolished. The people can appeal to the government.
> 
> 
> 
> No, she is definitely not !
> 
> 
> 
> Syrian army consultants should be enlisted by Russians in Ukraine. The Syrians have experience of such warfare. I say this even being someone not keen or knowledgeable about military matters.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe Wagner is helping the Libyans against the NATO-supported Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood criminals.




I dont hate russians. I hate their crazy facist dictator who believed he can go full hitler and miscalculated. Its up to russians to get rid of him.

Russian babushkas lost half their hard earned savings in just few hours. Young russians are stuck in russia and can travel nowhere. Even cars are not delivered anymore.

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## NotSure

jhungary said:


> So you think an invasion from Russia is NOT enough to call an "Escalation"?
> 
> Set aside what you think about European constitution, what next if Russia don't want to stop? Can you speak for your country what do they want? Can you speak for other country what do they want?
> 
> That is the issue here, can't you see it?


"Nice" try, wannabe anglosaxon. But i will not discuss european matters with you. And sure not answering such cheap suggestive questions.

Bye, bye.

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## That Guy

ZeEa5KPul said:


> This would mean something if the volume of currency transactions between dollars and rubles was anything above a trickle.


Lol , keep pretending if it helps you sleep at night.

This white people war is nothing more than an amusement for me.


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

dBSPL said:


> While 110,000 of our brothers and sisters were massacred in Bosnia, we did not see a tenth of the current arguments such - blue-eyed, blond-haired Europeans - in the western media. Disgusting, simply disgusting!
> 
> Putin, you fell into the trap of these bastards!


What trap? Russia's national security isn't going to be held hostage because of blond hair and blue eyes. It doesn't matter what your skin colour is, if you existentially threaten Russia you're going to be one colour: red.

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> I have actually twice before told @Apollon that if he was living in Greece during World War 2 he would have been part of the anti-Communist anti-resistance Nazi militia the Security Battalion which was part of the Nazi collaborator government. For others this is a reference for that era.
> 
> 
> 
> If Putin nationalizes the Russian socio-economic system and even if he cuts away from dealing economically with the West and deals within the ally framework and also I think because Russia can self-sustain in many things I am sure Russia will ride the tide.



Sure, on same low level as North Korea.

Chances are higher the oligarch hyenas will pull putins plug


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## dBSPL

dBSPL said:


> Another Pantsir-S1
> 
> The vehicle is undamaged, abandoned because it got stuck in mud. If they're selling, let's raise money together and buy it.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498252630300188676


Kidding aside, the Russian army's military engineering and logistics problems are alarming. Considering that this is a border operation, it is not even possible to imagine an overseas power projection of Russia (navy amphibous assets are not enough anyway).

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## reflecthofgeismar

QWECXZ said:


> Yes, but I wasn't talking about you, singular, as an individual.
> 
> Germany, and all European nations, have every right to refuse to accept refugees. I don't have a problem with that actually. But my initial statement that Muslims won't welcome you after the way they have been treated in recent decades, particularly after the Syrian civil war, stands completely valid.



I think they are fine like they are, in the end most of them wanna see how their children and grandchildren grow up, wanna feed their family, making birthday parties etc. but other culture/society values which are too foreign for me, I dont talk of "€uro-Muslims" who have so much to do with real islamic values like a swine with rocket science. 
Yeah I wouldn't want to go to a Islamic country either. My people have only 1 country.

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## jhungary

NotSure said:


> "Nice" try, wannabe anglosaxon. But i will not discuss european matters with you. And sure not answering such cheap suggestive questions.
> 
> Bye, bye.


Wow, what hostility......Defensive much? LOL 

You do know truth are just going to go away because you refused to talk about it, right? And you are just living in your delusional world.

You don't have to answer me if you don't want to. 

So Adios.

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## OldTwilight

That Guy said:


> There is a clear differ3nce between Ukraine, and NATO.
> 
> And economic meltdown won't trigger the Russians to declare war on NATO. They'll instead look to China to save their economy. NATO has now seen what Russia is capable of, and its not impressed.



Look like others are not impressed by NATO either

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## reflecthofgeismar

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498254276711391235
> lmao ukrainian farmers continue to steal abandoned russian equipments



You don't waste a free pizza, do you?


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## kingQamaR

They have got there and are now wondering what they are meant to do. Who are they going after and what is the objective? I think he thought the mere sight of all those tanks would have made the Ukrainians just give up like Saddam's men. It's not happening as they are resisting them even more. Now the Russians don't know what to do. They are stuck in an alley with the rear blocked. Sitting ducks now. The only hope is some agreement at the meeting.

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## LeGenD

dBSPL said:


> In the NATO-Russia tension, the fall of a single nuclear warhead anywhere in the world initiates a process that leads to complete extinction. And everything happens so fast that people don't even have time to say goodbye. Unfortunately, especially the young generation's brain is like dough because of too much computer games... When they watches a 5 season post-apocalyptic Netflix series and finishes a couple survival games; they thinks can save theirself.



The deployment of mobile ICBM launchers in Moscow is in line with Vladimir Putin's strongman posturing (OPTICS if you will). He will not go too far though.

For general knowledge - American ICBMs are kept in ready-to-fire position on 24/7 basis in silos and submarines - no OPTICS in this case.

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## kingQamaR

ZeEa5KPul said:


> What trap? Russia's national security isn't going to be held hostage because of blond hair and blue eyes. It doesn't matter what your skin colour is, if you existentially threaten Russia you're going to be one colour: red.



Its not a mad world. Its a world inhabited by a majority of decent and brave people but inhabited by a few mad leaders and thier followers.


----------



## jhungary

Arbiter said:


> Turkey has control of the strait. The black sea itself is a Russian lake. Its the reason they annexed Crimea, so to not lose Sevastopol. And no you cant attack from Turkey because of caucasus mountain range. Its far more difficult. The terrain in Ukraine to Volgograd is flat.


What does it do if Black sea become Russian internal lake? That does nothing if you cannot connect Black Sea to North Sea. You may as well build yartch on it instead of warship.

And well, the same terrain argument have been used a thousand time, Sure, Ukraine to Volgograd is flat (Not that flat actually in case you have not noticed) That does not mean they cannot attack over the caucasus Mountain. It's like saying the French should not be defending the Alps because enemy will never come over there as it's harder. Or the US and Canada should not defend the Rockies because it would never be invaded. I can show you both time they were wrong tho.


----------



## WinterFangs

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498259021156864000

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## jamahir

That Guy said:


> Oh come on, you and I both know this is nothing more than propaganda. Why are we playing this game, when you know for a fact that this is a lie?
> 
> If you want to have a serious talk about this white war, drop the act and have a serious discussion with me.



I am not a person to believe in false propaganda. I am always ready for serious discussion and ready to be corrected if I make mistakes so go ahead and make your points.



Apollon said:


> I dont hate russians. I hate their crazy facist dictator who believed he can go full hitler and miscalculated. Its up to russians to get rid of him.
> 
> Russian babushkas lost half their hard earned savings in just few hours. Young russians are stuck in russia and can travel nowhere. Even cars are not delivered anymore.



So if you don't like Putin and if you don't like the Communists whom do you like ? The CIA prop Garry Kasparov ?



Apollon said:


> Sure, on same low level as North Korea.
> 
> Chances are higher the oligarch hyenas will pull putins plug



North Korea has done wonders despite the illegal Western sanctions. OTOH look at my disharmonious and dystopian India which is under no sanctions though it should be instead of North Korea.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498260843867353101

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## Apollon

Bank run in Moscow. People desperatly try to get money.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## OldTwilight

kingQamaR said:


> They have got there and are now wondering what they are meant to do. Who are they going after and what is the objective? I think he thought the mere sight of all those tanks would have made the Ukrainians just give up like Saddam's men. It's not happening as they are resisting them even more. Now the Russians don't know what to do. They are stuck in an alley with the rear blocked. Sitting ducks now. The only hope is some agreement at the meeting.


actually b, Usa was killing Irsqis and bombarding Iraqi cities like rabbid dogs .... Russians still didn't use same savage tactics...


and Iraq was under sanction for a decade and has no real supporters unlike Ukraine ....

it took Usa and all of her alies more than 30 days to neutralize Saddam army in first phase of war

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## maverick1977

Indian Libertarian said:


> Tactical nukes will only isolate Russia more and elicit a NATO response if radiation travels to their countries…



Russia has nothing to loose anymore 


Titanium100 said:


> the Russians know this talks ain't going anywhere.. Hence they will try to lay down the pipe
> 
> 28 Feb, 2022 07:20
> HomeRussia & FSU
> Russian military offers 'safe passage' for evacuation from Kiev​Moscow urges civilians to evacuate from the Ukrainian capital
> View attachment 819482
> 
> The Russian Defense Ministry has called on Ukrainian civilians to evacuate from Kiev. They can do so by taking the highway towards Vasilkov, a city located 20km southwest of the capital, it said in a statement on Monday, claiming that _“this direction is open and safe.”_
> 
> The ministry added that Russia _“only attacks military objects”_ and insisted that the civilian population will not be at risk.
> 
> The call came on Monday as the Ukrainian and Russian delegations are set to start peace talks in Belarus. President Volodymyr Zelensky said in a public address, from Kiev, that he had low expectations for the negotiations. His country does not intend to surrender, he added.
> 
> Kiev Mayor Vitali Klitschko told AP on Sunday that the city was fully encircled by Russian troops, but backtracked on the claim later.
> 
> READ MORE: Kiev’s mayor says city ‘encircled,’ then backtracks
> The Ukrainian government earlier distributed firearms to civilians, released felons with military experience from prison, and called on the people to prepare firebombs to fight Russian troops.
> 
> Russia attacked Ukraine on Thursday, claiming that the country had to be demilitarized and _“denazified”_ to protect the breakaway regions of Donetsk and Lugansk, as well as Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.rt.com/russia/550814-russia-kiev-safe-passage/


if the talks failed today, then we should expect scorch earth policy by Russia…
They are economically devastated, and wont hold back …

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## kingQamaR

Apollon said:


> Bank run in Moscow. People desperatly try to get money.
> 
> View attachment 819500
> 
> 
> View attachment 819501
> 
> View attachment 819502



Those cried the loudest before the SWIFT ban didn't seem to understand that sanctions aren't like rockets and bullets, they usually take time to work and the most effective sanctions aren't necessarily those that cause a shock - like a complete SWIFT ban would do - but those that slowly but surely cut off the air supply of the economy, strangling it to death. There have been also reports that Russians are already having difficulty getting cash from their banks and not just forex. Trade with Russia has pretty much come to a complete halt already also. The sanctions are already working, but that doesn't mean that you can't do more. You just have to be smart about it.

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## That Guy

dBSPL said:


> Kidding aside, the Russian army's military engineering and logistics problems are alarming. Considering that this is a border operation, it is not even possible to imagine an overseas power projection of Russia (navy amphibous assets are not enough anyway).


Russia's two major purely military capability problems seem to be...

1) old equipment requiring heavy maintenance.

2) lack of logistical support.

It's very clear that what Russia lacks is not attack systems, but the logistics required to operate them effectively over long distances. The fact that Russian convoys are running out of food and fuel is a major problem that needs to be addressed on an urgent basis, which is not gonna happen due to a now severe lack of cash.

their over reliance on trains for transport of troops and goods ended up being useless in Ukraine, as the Ukrainians quickly destroyed all lines connecting the two nations very early on in the war. This explains why they ended up having to use Ukrainian roads to transport their old legacy armour, effective turning entire convoys into death traps which Ukrainians ambushed using Javelins and NLAWs, or drone struck using TB-2s.

Also, the Ukrainians are using old Soviet systems to shoot down Russian aircrafts and old Soviet artillery to destroy incoming convoys shows just how vintage Russian armour actually is, and how weak Russian air force actually is (old Ukrainian migs were literally shooting down Russia's latest and heavily upgraded fighters).

On a side note, Russia has also been unable to prevent NATO from sharing real time intelligence with the Ukrainian military about Russian advances, and Russia seems to no even be trying to prevent it. As soon as something happens, the Ukrainians seem to know about it, which also explains how so many Russian sabotage teams keep getting caught entering cities, and why Ukrainian defenses seem to be so effective at repelling Russian offensives.

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## Paul2

I see a following development possible:

Crimea gets SEADed, and then Russia will get a lot of heavy units stuck cut off in the middle of Ukraine.

I believe they moved most of previously entrenched units from Crimea to offensive.


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## dBSPL

France : If Belarus joins the war on the side of Russia, all our rights as NATO are reserved.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498261000587460612
Another bold move by France

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## Apollon

What i find crazy is how incredible weak the russian military appears. I think many watch and study

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## Invicta

kingQamaR said:


> Those cried the loudest before the SWIFT ban didn't seem to understand that sanctions aren't like rockets and bullets, they usually take time to work and the most effective sanctions aren't necessarily those that cause a shock - like a complete SWIFT ban would do - but those that slowly but surely cut off the air supply of the economy, strangling it to death. There have been also reports that Russians are already having difficulty getting cash from their banks and not just forex. Trade with Russia has pretty much come to a complete halt already also. The sanctions are already working, but that doesn't mean that you can't do more. You just have to be smart about it.


A rational mind would contemplate that easily, unfortunately this forum is creeping with trolls who make every attempt of any constructive dialog into a D measuring contest. 

The sanctions will bite Russia hard, Russia is not North Korea, the people will shout and more importantly the oligarchs that support Putin will now seriously question his judgement.

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## FuturePAF

That Guy said:


> Russia's two major purely military capability problems seem to be...
> 
> 1) old equipment requiring heavy maintenance.
> 
> 2) lack of logistical support.
> 
> It's very clear that what Russia lacks is not attack systems, but the logistics required to operate them effectively over long distances. The fact that Russian convoys are running out of food and fuel is a major problem that needs to be addressed on an urgent basis, which is not gonna happen due to a now severe lack of cash.
> 
> their over reliance on trains for transport of troops and goods ended up being useless in Ukraine, as the Ukrainians quickly destroyed all lines connecting the two nations very early on in the war. This explains why they ended up having to use Ukrainian roads to transport their old legacy armour, effective turning entire convoys into death traps which Ukrainians ambushed using Javelins and NLAWs, or drone struck using TB-2s.
> 
> Also, the Ukrainians are using old Soviet systems to shoot down Russian aircrafts and old Soviet artillery to destroy incoming convoys shows just how vintage Russian armour actually is, and how weak Russian air force actually is (old Ukrainian migs were literally shooting down Russia's latest and heavily upgraded fighters).
> 
> On a side note, Russia has also been unable to prevent NATO from sharing real time intelligence with the Ukrainian military about Russian advances, and Russia seems to no even be trying to prevent it. As soon as something happens, the Ukrainians seem to know about it, which also explains how so many Russian sabotage teams keep getting caught entering cities, and why Ukrainian defenses seem to be so effective at repelling Russian offensives.


I found that surprising as well. The Russians didn’t use their best planes to try to destroy the Ukrainian integrated air defenses and fighters first. In the first gulf war; there was a 100 days of air war followed by a 100 hours of ground fighting.

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## That Guy

jamahir said:


> I am not a person to believe in false propaganda. I am always ready for serious discussion and ready to be corrected if I make mistakes so go ahead and make your points.


If you're serious, then the first thing you need to do is get this idea out of your head that Russia went into Ukraine to denazify them. This is a lie, and propaganda to morally justify their invasion, because they couldn't outright admit that their objection was Ukraine (originally) wanting to join the EU, and (later on) NATO.

Of course, the Russians eventually admitted to it, but saying denazify makes it seem like a moral obligation rather than one that's purely due to geopolitics.

Nations are rational actors, they have to be. When a national leader talks about morality, it's nothing more than propaganda to get people on their side.

Same with Europe, they don't give a **** what happens to Ukraine or its people, what they want is for Ukraine to remain a buffer state between the Russians and western Europe. The Europeans talking about a moral responsibility towards saving Ukraine is also nothing more than propaganda.

The truth is that Ukraine is stuck between a geopolitical dilemma. They side with one side, and the other gets mad. Yet, neither side wants Ukraine to remain neutral, so Ukraine suffers for it.

And that's the reality of it.

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## FuturePAF

Invicta said:


> A rational mind would contemplate that easily, unfortunately this forum is creeping with trolls who make every attempt of any constructive dialog into a D measuring contest.
> 
> The sanctions will bite Russia hard, Russia is not North Korea, the people will shout and more importantly the oligarchs that support Putin will now seriously question his judgement.


With Putin under so much pressure, will it make him snap and resort to more indiscriminate use of force? Even the possibly use of tactical nuclear weapons?

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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498263923400880129

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## jamahir

That Guy said:


> If you're serious, then the first thing you need to do is get this idea out of your head that Russia went into Ukraine to denazify them. This is a lie, and propaganda to morally justify their invasion, because they couldn't outright admit that their objection was Ukraine (originally) wanting to join the EU, and (later on) NATO.
> 
> Of course, the Russians eventually admitted to it, but saying denazify makes it seem like a moral obligation rather than one that's purely due to geopolitics.
> 
> Nations are rational actors, they have to be. When a national leader talks about morality, it's nothing more than propaganda to get people on their side.
> 
> Same with Europe, they don't give a **** what happens to Ukraine or its people, what they want is for Ukraine to remain a buffer state between the Russians and western Europe. The Europeans talking about a moral responsibility towards saving Ukraine is also nothing more than propaganda.
> 
> The truth is that Ukraine is stuck between a geopolitical dilemma. They side with one side, and the other gets mad. Yet, neither side wants Ukraine to remain neutral, so Ukraine suffers for it.
> 
> And that's the reality of it.



Can you please rewrite that after removing the snarkyness and arrogance ?

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## pakpride00090

reflecthofgeismar said:


> I was always against unnecessary wars/conflicts or which could have solved in a other way.
> But I'm completely against taking people from other cultures, societies with other values and other ideologies.
> BTW, I mean only Germany, with 40/50 billion spending for "refugees" (mostly young men who don't wanna work/integrate, are in fighting age and were even in their home country useless).



You may be against war personally but that it not the view of your government. 

Europeans helped US in destroying middle east so it is logical for them to accept responsibility for it.

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## That Guy

FuturePAF said:


> I found that surprising as well. The Russians didn’t use their best planes to try to destroy the Ukrainian integrated air defenses and fighters first. In the first gulf war; there was a 100 days of air war followed by a 100 hours of ground fighting.


It's likely the Russians don't have enough new equipment to justify using them on what they thought was gonna be a quick and easy conquest.

They still have NATO to worry about, and using your latest tech on a weaker opponent just gives your enemy more data, and even worse if you lose that tech, it could end up in enemy hands.

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## RescueRanger

Titanium100 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498263923400880129


Metro is so overpriced here in Pakistan.


----------



## hussain0216

Apollon said:


> What i find crazy is how incredible weak the russian military appears. I think many watch and study



They have hardly used their military or airforce

Thus far their progress has been fine

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498256624468828168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498254823392747524

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498254276711391235

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498262717400252472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498265298964819968
There is graphic footage of dead civilians killed in those shellings that I am not going to share here for obvious reasons.


----------



## Titanium100

Day 5.

All focused on Kiev, the capital and largest city. But the most important thing is happening in the Donbass. Mariupol, to the south, is practically surrounded, the same happens in Kramatorsk/Sloviansk and also Severodonetsk/Lysichansk.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498267174363967495

Notice there are two pockets forming in the south forget the Mariupol one but if the upper pocket forms then ''Novorossiya'' Is a reality not a theory anymore

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## That Guy

jamahir said:


> Can you please rewrite that after removing the snarkyness and arrogance ?


Nope. Take it or leave it.

If you want to have a serious discussion, I'm all ears, but I'm not about to change my entire personality.

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## FuturePAF

That Guy said:


> It's likely the Russians don't have enough new equipment to justify using them on what they thought was gonna be a quick and easy conquest.
> 
> They still have NATO to worry about, and using your latest tech on a weaker opponent just gives your enemy more data, and even worse if you lose that tech, it could end up in enemy hands.


The Russians seem to have severely underestimated the Ukrainians and their ability to be resupplied.

Or they are going slow, to avoid loss of civilian life, and to be cautious as much as possible with the equipment and men

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498257993892524041

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498267153056870402

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498227484197896194

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498259982428610560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498241064347574272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498247290569596933


----------



## Ali_Baba

That Guy said:


> On a side note, Russia has also been unable to prevent NATO from sharing real time intelligence with the Ukrainian military about Russian advances, and Russia seems to no even be trying to prevent it. As soon as something happens, the Ukrainians seem to know about it, which also explains how so many Russian sabotage teams keep getting caught entering cities, and why Ukrainian defenses seem to be so effective at repelling Russian offensives.



The problem is that Russia cannot prevent this at all - it would not dare to challenge NATO aerial assets and you can be sure the cables delivering that data is quite secure. The Russian gambit was to try and knock out the AD network on day#1 and to some extent they succeeded - some of the SAMs and almost all of the Radars were all taken down. But the AD network is still effective to some extent as NATO is providing the air picture.

The Su-34s are flying low and fast as any higher and they will get shot down and any slower - the Manpads will take them out. This restricts the ability of the RuAF to get massively involved.

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## Apollon

hussain0216 said:


> They have hardly used their military or airforce
> 
> Thus far their progress has been fine



They look weak. Child soldiers, heavy losses.


----------



## RescueRanger

Multiple casualties being reported following heavy shelling in Kharkiv:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498254388409810944


----------



## Ali_Baba

dBSPL said:


> Another Pantsir-S1
> 
> The vehicle is undamaged, abandoned because it got stuck in mud. If they're selling, let's raise money together and buy it.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498252630300188676



The weather has not worked in Putins favour either - seems like he should have started 2-3 weeks earlier than he did. Alot of russian armour got bogged down and is now forced to use the motorways as the ground is too soft.

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## Bilal.

Titanium100 said:


> Day 5.
> 
> All focused on Kiev, the capital and largest city. But the most important thing is happening in the Donbass. Mariupol, to the south, is practically surrounded, the same happens in Kramatorsk/Sloviansk and also Severodonetsk/Lysichansk.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498267174363967495
> 
> Notice there are two pockets forming in the south forget the Mariupol one but if the upper pocket forms then ''Novorossiya'' Is a reality not a theory anymore


Seems quite rapid to me…


----------



## kingQamaR

Apollon said:


> They look weak. Child soldiers, heavy losses.



Today's Russian war strategy is still 2nd world war style


----------



## dBSPL

That Guy said:


> Russia's two major purely military capability problems seem to be...
> 
> 1) old equipment requiring heavy maintenance.
> 
> 2) lack of logistical support.
> 
> It's very clear that what Russia lacks is not attack systems, but the logistics required to operate them effectively over long distances. The fact that Russian convoys are running out of food and fuel is a major problem that needs to be addressed on an urgent basis, which is not gonna happen due to a now severe lack of cash.
> 
> their over reliance on trains for transport of troops and goods ended up being useless in Ukraine, as the Ukrainians quickly destroyed all lines connecting the two nations very early on in the war. This explains why they ended up having to use Ukrainian roads to transport their old legacy armour, effective turning entire convoys into death traps which Ukrainians ambushed using Javelins and NLAWs, or drone struck using TB-2s.
> 
> Also, the Ukrainians are using old Soviet systems to shoot down Russian aircrafts and old Soviet artillery to destroy incoming convoys shows just how vintage Russian armour actually is, and how weak Russian air force actually is (old Ukrainian migs were literally shooting down Russia's latest and heavily upgraded fighters).
> 
> On a side note, Russia has also been unable to prevent NATO from sharing real time intelligence with the Ukrainian military about Russian advances, and Russia seems to no even be trying to prevent it. As soon as something happens, the Ukrainians seem to know about it, which also explains how so many Russian sabotage teams keep getting caught entering cities, and why Ukrainian defenses seem to be so effective at repelling Russian offensives.


Russia already had difficulties in modernizing its military systems for a long time with the post-Soviet collapse. Russia is traditionally the world's largest land army. So the inventory is huge in every sense... This was not a problem that could be solved in 3-5 years. In terms of the necessary machinery and looms, and for some products, the technology had difficulty in competing.

Before Russia could complete this phase, it inevitably set about consolidating its outer security concept with military measures. Particularly, intervention in Syria is a costly issue for Russia. Resources that should have been spent on military modernization began to flow into military operations.

Russia still has invaluable conventional military assets and, more importantly, doctrines for point operations. However, the consequences of a large-scale invasion were heavy for Russia. (A possible defeat in Ukraine may, first of all, destroy the perception of mighty Russia in the minds. This is what Russia cannot afford either.)

A wave of economic sanctions is now likely to begin on an unprecedented scale. But I think the main critical issue is the disappearance of the activities necessary for Russia's defense and aerospace industry, which I mentioned above. I opened a separate thread on this subject.

In short, the Ukraine war creates a reality in which Russia will be vitally dependent on China in every sense. This will lead to the political regression of Russia.

///

From Turkey's point of view, I think Russia should not be defeated. However, this should not be a decisive NATO victory either. If a certain victory situation occurs, the pressure on Turkey will increase, it doesn't matter from which direction.

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498269654992797700

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498253050464583680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498257161629089796

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498266613002424325

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498269318261481474

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498218557385187328


----------



## That Guy

FuturePAF said:


> The Russians seem to have severely underestimated the Ukrainians and their ability to be resupplied.
> 
> Or they are going slow, to avoid loss of civilian life, and to be cautious as much as possible with the equipment and men


The Russians expected this to be quick and easy, and if they were the USSR, it would have been.

Russia overestimated itself, which allowed the Ukrainians to regroup and put up strong defenses. This gave time for the Ukrainians to launch a diplomatic offensive in Europe. With Europe convinced that Ukraine was not gonna get quickly overrun, they could now seriously consider, and commit to supporting Ukrainian financially, militarily, and humanitarianly as well.

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## FuturePAF

kingQamaR said:


> Today's Russian war strategy is still 2nd world war style


Considering the Indians were trained by and large by the Russian, I hope we are working with Turkey (that has assets in Ukraine and in the Black Sea) to really keep an laser focused eye on how Russia is prosecuting this war.

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## RescueRanger

Another video of Indian students trapped in Ukraine 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498191583186804739

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498141091635339270
There is alot of jokes and bravado in this war.. There is plenty of humor I am loving it so far

Reactions: Like Like:
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## FuturePAF

That Guy said:


> The Russians expected this to be quick and easy, and if they were the USSR, it would have been.
> 
> Russia overestimated itself, which allowed the Ukrainians to regroup and put up strong defenses. This gave time for the Ukrainians to launch a diplomatic offensive in Europe. With Europe convinced that Ukraine was not gonna get quickly overrun, they could now seriously consider, and commit to supporting Ukrainian financially, militarily, and humanitarianly as well.


Now all the Ukrainians need is a massive resupply of longer range air defense systems (like the Sa-6) and dozens of ex-soviet fighters (mig-29) from mothball in Germany, Poland and other Eastern European nations.



RescueRanger said:


> Another video of Indian students trapped in Ukraine
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498191583186804739


Kharkiv is a university city with 300,000 students.

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## 8888888888888

RescueRanger said:


> Multiple casualties being reported following heavy shelling in Kharkiv:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498254388409810944


Bound to happen when you resist. Should have surrendered when your Leander USA tells you that you will lose anyway.

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## Bengal71

dBSPL said:


> Let's measure the level of knowledge of the forum: If you notice, both helicopters and, where possible, fighters and bombers fly very low over residential areas.
> 
> What do you think is the reason for this? Does this increase or decrease the threat of MANPADS?


Decrease the threat of manpads I think.


----------



## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> The problem is that Russia cannot prevent this at all - it would not dare to challenge NATO aerial assets and you can be sure the cables delivering that data is quite secure. The Russian gambit was to try and knock out the AD network on day#1 and to some extent they succeeded - some of the SAMs and almost all of the Radars were all taken down. But the AD network is still effective to some extent as NATO is providing the air picture.
> 
> The Su-34s are flying low and fast as any higher and they will get shot down and any slower - the Manpads will take them out. This restricts the ability of the RuAF to get massively involved.


Another thing is that ZSU-23 is actually quite capable for the low flying aircraft, It was used to fight our A-6 Intruder during Vietnam, and then A-10 in Iraq and Afghanistan, seems to me the Russian is underestimated the Ukrainian Air Defence network. 

Bear in mind NATO intelligence play a big role to Ukraine Air Defence network. And it's a coincident that Ukraine have upgraded their L-3 Communication Network back in 2019 (I want to say it's 2019 but may be later, I forgot) which can plug directly to NATO intelligence sharing, that mean even if Russia have been able to target Ukrainian Radar, it would not work as Ukraine can depends on NATO AWACS asset to vector information. That probably account for the large cache of missile and aircraft being shootdown. Otherwise they would not have painted it.

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## Abid123

dBSPL said:


> France : If Belarus joins the war on the side of Russia, all our rights as NATO are reserved.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498261000587460612
> Another bold move by France


What does that mean?


----------



## jamahir

That Guy said:


> Nope. Take it or leave it.
> 
> If you want to have a serious discussion, I'm all ears, but I'm not about to change my entire personality.



Then I decline that post of yours. You remain snarky and arrogant. Or you can choose not to.



Apollon said:


> They look weak. Child soldiers, heavy losses.



As against Zelensky desperately calling for international non-state fighters ?



FuturePAF said:


> Considering the Indians were trained by and large by the Russian, I hope we are working with Turkey (that has assets in Ukraine and in the Black Sea) to really keep an laser focused eye on how Russia is prosecuting this war.



Erdogan is free to act against Russia.


----------



## Paul2

I think it's clear now, Russia is using talks to reposition its forces.


----------



## Titanium100

the Chechens have been effective as they have all of Kyiv under sieged and encircled the city nothing can exit or enter Kyiv


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498042496051560448


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Then I decline that post of yours. You remain snarky and arrogant. Or you can not to.
> 
> 
> 
> As against Zelensky desperately calling for international non-state fighters ?
> 
> 
> 
> Erdogan is free to act against Russia.



Zelensky is in weak Position. SUPAAAPOWAAA Putler on other side lost on all fronts and has not achieved any objective yet. 

I guess one of the oligarchs pulls the plug


----------



## LeGenD

kingQamaR said:


> Those cried the loudest before the SWIFT ban didn't seem to understand that sanctions aren't like rockets and bullets, they usually take time to work and the most effective sanctions aren't necessarily those that cause a shock - like a complete SWIFT ban would do - but those that slowly but surely cut off the air supply of the economy, strangling it to death. There have been also reports that Russians are already having difficulty getting cash from their banks and not just forex. Trade with Russia has pretty much come to a complete halt already also. The sanctions are already working, but that doesn't mean that you can't do more. You just have to be smart about it.


Well said, bro.

It looks like Putin administration underestimated much of Europe.









Western companies head for the exit in Russia as sanctions tighten | Cyprus Mail


Energy giant BP, global bank HSBC and the world's biggest aircraft leasing firm AerCap joined a growing list of companies looking to exit Russia on Monday, as Western sanctions tightened the screws on Moscow over its invasion of Ukraine. The West has moved to punish Russia with a raft of…




cyprus-mail.com





Russians are feeling the heat already:





__





The Kremlin says Russia's 'economic reality' has 'considerably changed' in the face of 'problematic' Western sanctions






www.msn.com





Belarus is on the line as well.

There are also hints of expanding Ukrainian insurgency.





__





A Ukrainian insurgency could drain Russia's resources and will






www.msn.com





You have to confront the bully to stop him. This is how it works in real life.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498269905870802949

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498271549798891528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498272299111301120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498272343847800836

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498272467193847809

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## dBSPL

Evacuation operations for Turkish citizens continue. I don't know if other country nationals can benefit, but I don't think they will turn Pakistani citizens away.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498254710708572161

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## FuturePAF

Even if the Russians take all of Ukraine, an insurgency by the 40+ million Ukrainians against the few hundreds of thousands of Russian force will keep the Russians and the western alliance preoccupied. This is what India fears, as the attention will shift from China to Europe.

In the following video, we are reminded by the interviewer, that India (which calls itself the largest democracy) sided with the Soviets when they invaded Afghanistan in 1979. The only democratic country to do so. This should be emphasized in today’s context, to highlight India does not stand on principles as it likes to claim but naked national interests.

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## RescueRanger

FuturePAF said:


> Kharkiv is a university city with 300,000 students.


Yes I know that.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498268108427046913

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498272842554687489

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498272873420668930

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498273469640888321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498264116871507971

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498273767906230272


----------



## dBSPL

Abid123 said:


> What does that mean?


Threat. Including Belarus into the same measures as Russia or intervening in Belarus. We don't know. Or maybe he's just talking about copyrighting fight on Youtube videos.

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## thetutle

Awan68 said:


> Its only natural to insult white subhumans, nothing wrong in that. I think for the world to be at peace, White people should be ejected from the US, Australia and where ever else they went with their filth and thrown back into Europe, then Europe needs to be demilitarised and no white country should be allowed to even have a single bullet for defence. This is adamant for the world to survive.



This is very perverse thinking. But I as a white person am not offended because such wishes are so far from reality that they are almost funny.


----------



## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498250818306420740

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RescueRanger

Titanium100 said:


> the Chechens have been effective as they have all of Kyiv under sieged and encircled the city nothing can exit or enter Kyiv
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498042496051560448


Already discussed, these are the bulk of Russian forces on the outskirts of Ivankov 153km from Kyiv.

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## jhungary

Titanium100 said:


> Day 5.
> 
> All focused on Kiev, the capital and largest city. But the most important thing is happening in the Donbass. Mariupol, to the south, is practically surrounded, the same happens in Kramatorsk/Sloviansk and also Severodonetsk/Lysichansk.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498267174363967495
> 
> Notice there are two pockets forming in the south forget the Mariupol one but if the upper pocket forms then ''Novorossiya'' Is a reality not a theory anymore


Was gonna write this on my Day 7 update of the Battle Assessment I did a while ago. But anyway, I am going to say it here.

It was undoubtedly the Russian main objective is for the Eastern Force to be a blocking force, which pin the Eastern Ukrainian defence in place. 

The Northern Arm come down from Belarus would meet the South Arm come up form Crimea and link up and split the country into 2 over the Dnieper River, while the Force at Brest is there to prevent a breakout or Reinforcement from Lviv.

This battleplan, however, heavily depends on two things. 

1.) You have to capture Kyiv in order to make this happen.
2.) You also need to capture Dnipro 

Now, the Southern Arm is blocked in Kherson region, and Northern Arm laying siege of Kyiv. Problem for this battle plan as far as I can see is that First, supply is going to come in from the West from Europe and which mean Lviv and the Western Area is going to become a problem for Russia, the only way Russia can deal with that is to cut off that area using the troop in Brest. Which if that force is engaged no one will be able to screen the Russian Left flank.

Another thing is the longer Kyiv can drag on, the harder would be fore this pincer to move. It is estimated that Russia would take another 2 or 3 days to go up from Kherson (Mykolaiv) and double envelope Dnipro from Left and Right. 

And then Dnipro itself is a large city.

Not sure how much Time Russia have because supply is going to run low and it will get harder and harder to resupply the longer they expanded their lead. Which mean by Day 14, if they cannot take Dnipro AND Kyiv, I would consider this plan failure.



Paul2 said:


> I think it's clear now, Russia is using talks to reposition its forces.


I think it has been clear from the moment they asked for talks...



Paul2 said:


> I think it's clear now, Russia is using talks to reposition its forces.


I think it has been clear from the moment they asked for talks...


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498274281851170821

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498274804566306819


----------



## That Guy

jamahir said:


> Then I decline that post of yours. You remain snarky and arrogant. Or you can choose not to.


It just seem to me that you're making an excuse, but sure. It's up to you to do what you want.

Nothing in my comment was out of arrogance, I just challenged your views was all, and you just don't like that fact.


----------



## EAGLE777

Metal 0-1 said:


> That audio file is really creepy. ngl


Reptilians


----------



## Hack-Hook

dBSPL said:


> Evacuation operations for Turkish citizens continue. I don't know if other country nationals can benefit, but I don't think they will turn Pakistani citizens away.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498254710708572161


Poland already stated , foreign national who reside legally in Ukraine can go to Poland and they can stay there up to 15 day and use the time to facilitate a means to go back to their countries.
obviously this is not the case for illegals


----------



## Abid123

Titanium100 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498250818306420740


It was only a matter of time before the Belarusians got involved.


----------



## Invicta

FuturePAF said:


> With Putin under so much pressure, will it make him snap and resort to more indiscriminate use of force? Even the possibly use of tactical nuclear weapons?


I don't think he is or anyone in Russian Military is stupid enough to use tactical nukes. I do think that if things don't go his way he will escalate and use more force. He is in desperate need of a silver lining, this has not gone to plan, the West and USA need cut him some slack if they wish to deescalate quickly.

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## Muhammed45

*Western hypocrisy *

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## hussain0216

Apollon said:


> They look weak. Child soldiers, heavy losses.



That's the Russian way, if anything apart from their shock troops in Chechens and their special forces they have allowed conscripts to do the job

If you look at the map their battle plan is obvious and with 5 days of war is well under way


Propaganda is deluding people

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## dBSPL

Hack-Hook said:


> Poland already stated , foreign national who reside legally in Ukraine can go to Poland and they can stay there up to 15 day and use the time to facilitate a means to go back to their countries.
> obviously this is not the case for illegals


Train lines stopped on February 25. The roads are not in good and safe condition, gas another problem. Those who cross from western Ukraine to Poland often have to walk tens of kilometers. The rescue operation I mentioned (the announcement above was about Odessa) is provided by buses departing from the city centers. Not only Poland, but until the last stop, Edirne, no country applies visa and passport procedures.


----------



## Titanium100

FuturePAF said:


> Even if the Russians take all of Ukraine, an insurgency by the 40+ million Ukrainians against the few hundreds of thousands of Russian force will keep the Russians and the western alliance preoccupied. This is what India fears, as the attention will shift from China to Europe.
> 
> In the following video, we are reminded by the interviewer, that India (which calls itself the largest democracy) sided with the Soviets when they invaded Afghanistan in 1979. The only democratic country to do so. This should be emphasized in today’s context, to highlight India does not stand on principles as it likes to claim but naked national interests.



India is more afraid of Pakistan then China... Just look at their deployment they have 4 divisions sitting against China and 20 divisions against Pakistan and before that it use to be 24 divisions and due to Galwan they diverted 4 divisions to China..

The question is why? --> Historical muscle memory

Also I don't believe Quad is solely to block China but also directed at Pakistan as well but he doesn't want to say directly that Pakistan is part of the target group because Pakistan has good relations with the US and there is neutrality hence the Indian won't misspeak or drag the US into a political scandal or damage their stragetic significiance but whatever Quad is doing it is also an Anti-Pakistan group secretly

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## RescueRanger

Titanium100 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498250818306420740



These images from MAXAR show a Pontoon bridge being constructed over the Prypyat River in Belarus:

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498276448683102209

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498274083091496963

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## Paul2

I see not much happening today, except Russian side moving forces, and Ukrainian side doing... what? I think they are running out of steam for interdiction.

Russians are obviously wanting to break out of bottlenecks.

Usual shellings along urban frontlines.

I think 1 Baraktar confirmed lost

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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> These images from MAXAR show a Pontoon bridge being constructed over the Prypyat River in Belarus:
> View attachment 819518
> 
> 
> View attachment 819520


They wouldn't move form south from Brest until Kyiv is secured. Otherwise you are looking to get hit by both sides once you run south.......That's No Bueno

That's why they are still at Brest.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498277143863865345

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498276779563302918

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498277421396676618

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498277441772609539


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## Paul2

Both sides are now adapting to each other tactics.

Russian side switching to more conservative, and slow armour crawl

As for Ukrainian side, I only see territorials starting going into the field out of Kiyv

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## Apollon

EU just closed all ports for russian ships. This includes oligarchs yachts. Spain says those russian elited shall not enjoy free europe, they can bring their yachts to cold russian barrent sea.

So far russian oligarchs have lost property worth 46 billion € within 48 h.

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## FuturePAF

RescueRanger said:


> Yes I know that.


Sorry, it was meant as an FYI in general

Btw, an word on Pakistani students and their evacuation?

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498279966588481540

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498279534596136965

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498279067204079619


----------



## FuturePAF

Invicta said:


> I don't think he is or anyone in Russian Military is stupid enough to use tactical nukes. I do think that if things don't go his way he will escalate and use more force. He is in desperate need of a silver lining, this has not gone to plan, the West and USA need cut him some slack if they wish to deescalate quickly.


Probably going to be another East west divided; along the Dnieper River but the Russians will probably take Odessa and the entire southern coast to make Ukraine landlocked.

Such as the following:

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## Muhammed45

Muhammed45 said:


> *Western hypocrisy *
> 
> 
> View attachment 819511
> 
> View attachment 819512
> 
> View attachment 819513
> 
> View attachment 819514
> 
> View attachment 819515
> 
> View attachment 819516


The massage that it conveys, is, hey Muslim you have to suffer. No one cares, no one shows sympathy, no one is interested in seeing your teaeful eyes. You have to suffer And suffer

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## ZeEa5KPul

Apollon said:


> Bank run in Moscow. People desperatly try to get money.
> 
> View attachment 819500
> 
> 
> View attachment 819501
> 
> View attachment 819502


Don't gloat too much, you might be facing a lot of blackouts in Europe very soon.


----------



## Paul2

I counted 6 opportunities for cutoff in the south.

Big inconvenience: lots of air seemingly being projected from the peninsular. Lots of SEAD, and air screens will be needed until airbases are suppressed.

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## dBSPL

lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498076685169676288


----------



## RescueRanger

That's a lot of hardware in the channel:

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## Apollon

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Don't gloat too much, you might be facing a lot of blackouts in Europe very soon.



Doubtful. Very mild winter. Nature works against Putler


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Zelensky is in weak Position. SUPAAAPOWAAA Putler on other side lost on all fronts and has not achieved any objective yet.



"Lost on all fronts" ? Umm, this is just the 5th day of the war and as other members have been saying, the Americans took 30 days to partially defeat Saddam's forces in 2003. Isn't America a SUPAAAPOWAAA ?



Apollon said:


> I guess one of the oligarchs pulls the plug



So you want Putin's oligarchs to be replaced with government that is puppet of the Western governments and controlled by the plutocrats in Wall Street ?



FuturePAF said:


> Even if the Russians take all of Ukraine, an insurgency by the 40+ million Ukrainians against the few hundreds of thousands of Russian force will keep the Russians and the western alliance preoccupied.



Can you tell me how many of those 40+ million Ukranians are from the Russian-speaking regions and also those from other parts of Ukraine who don't support the government because there was a vid yesterday in this thread of street interviews of Kiev women who essentially said "To hell with the central government" and said they won't send their sons to fight for the government ?



FuturePAF said:


> In the following video, we are reminded by the interviewer, that India (which calls itself the largest democracy) sided with the Soviets when they invaded Afghanistan in 1979. The only democratic country to do so. This should be emphasized in today’s context, to highlight India does not stand on principles as it likes to claim but naked national interests.



"Naked national interests" as in maintaining the extreme Capitalist socio-economic system and the actually non-democracy if seen in the context of successive Indian governments from 1947 till now. Indian governments never really sided with the USSR and in the 1980s the Indian government was actually scared of possibly increased USSR's influence in Pakistan. The Indian government of the mid-1980s under PM Rajiv Gandhi saw Zia ul Haq's Pakistan as the buffer which would protect Rajiv's India from increased Soviet presence in India which could very possibly enable the Indian Communists from politically taking over at some point. Rajiv Gandhi was ready to assist Zia to get back into power in case he was toppled by Soviet-assisted Pakistani leftists where the Soviets would try to extend their influence into Pakistan beyond their presence in Afghanistan. From my 2015 thread :


> *Rajiv Gandhi regarded Pakistan as 'strategic buffer' against USSR: CIA document*
> 
> Sep 01, 2015
> 
> Rajiv Gandhi was the seventh Prime Minister of India (Photo: PTI/File)
> *Washington*: Contradicting perceived proximity to the Soviet Union in the Cold War era, India under the then Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi had toyed with the idea of supporting anti-Russian civilian groups in Pakistan if the then Zia regime was thrown out by Moscow, a recent declassified CIA document has claimed.
> 
> According to CIA documents of the era, which were recently declassified and posted on the CIA website under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), which is similar to India's Right to Information Act, Gandhi wanted non-interference from both the United States and the then USSR. "Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi would like both the USSR and the United States to end their involvement in South Asia," noted the 31-page CIA document titled 'The Soviet Presence in Afghanistan: Implications for the Regional Powers and the US'.
> 
> While taking note of the historic India-USSR relationship in particular in the defence field, the CIA report of April 1985 noted that India is likely to become increasingly concerned about long-range Soviet intentions in the region and could find itself moving towards confrontation with the Soviets if Pakistan was effectively neutralised.
> 
> "New Delhi regards Pakistan as a strategic buffer against the USSR and would oppose Moscow's effort to dominate Pakistan. New Delhi and Moscow would find themselves supporting rival factions within Pakistan," said the report, according to which Moscow had plans to change the regime in Pakistan and extend its influence beyond Afghanistan. In that case, the report said, "The Indians would seek to significantly reduce their dependence on Moscow and reorder their strategic relationship with the USSR, the United States and China if they perceived Soviet ambitions as extending beyond Afghanistan toward the subcontinent."
> 
> According to the report, the Soviets tried to heighten India's suspicion about Pakistan's intentions and its security relationship with the US in order to foster Indo-Pakistani tensions and heighten New Delhi’s dependence on Moscow. "In Soviet view, conflict between India and Pakistan would work toward solving Moscow's Afghan problem and would give Moscow opportunities to strengthen its position in South Asia," the report said.
> 
> "If (Gen) Zia (Ul Haq) regime were to fall, the Indians might try to prevent Soviet attempt to dominate Pakistan by supporting rival Pakistani political factions, Soviet military moves against an already neutralised Pakistan could even result in military confrontation with India," it added.
> 
> Six months later when Gandhi was planning to meet General Zia on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly meeting in New York, the CIA analyzed that the then Indian Prime Minister, despite his strong public views on Pakistan's nuclear weapons program, was unlikely to push him hard on it. "Gandhi is unlikely to push Zia hard about the Pakistani nuclear program, although he probably will at least mention his continuing concern," noted the top secret CIA document dated October 21, 1985.
> 
> "For his part, Zia is also likely to propose ideas on ways to improve the bilateral relationship. He may suggest regular high-level diplomatic talks in addition to the formal Joint Commission sessions that focuses on trade, communications and cultural exchanges," the report said. "Zia may also solicit Gandhi's views on whether as the Pakistanis believe the Soviets are becoming serious about a negotiated settlement in Afghanistan," it said.






Titanium100 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498250818306420740



Good !



That Guy said:


> Nothing in my comment was out of arrogance



"If you're serious, then the first thing you need to do is get this idea out of your head"

"Nope. Take it or leave it."

They are not snarky and arrogant.

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## RescueRanger

FuturePAF said:


> Sorry, it was meant as an FYI in general
> 
> Btw, an word on Pakistani students and their evacuation?


Please don't apologize to me, its not necessary. 

Some Pakistani students were evacuated via Poland. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498196569023303684

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## dBSPL

Apollon said:


> So far russian oligarchs have lost property worth 46 billion € within 48 h.


Is Cyprus included? (as you know, one of the centers used for offshore transfers)


----------



## Muhammed45

First shipment of Israeli aid arrives in Kieva

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> "Lost on all fronts" ? Umm, this is just the 5th day of the war and as other members have been saying, the Americans about 30 days to partially defeat Saddam's forces in 2003. Isn't America a SUPAAAPOWAAA ?
> 
> 
> 
> So you want Putin's oligarchs to be replaced with government that is puppet of the Western governments and controlled by the plutocrats in Wall Street ?
> 
> 
> 
> Can you tell me how many of those 40+ million Ukranians are from the Russian-speaking regions and also those from other parts of Ukraine who don't support the government because there was a vid yesterday in this thread of street interviews of Kiev women who essentially said "To hell with the central government" and said they won't send their sons to fight for the government ?
> 
> 
> 
> "Naked national interests" as in maintaining the extreme Capitalist socio-economic system and the actually non-democracy if seen in the context of successive Indian governments from 1947 till now. Indian governments never really sided with the USSR and in the 1980s the Indian government was actually scared of possibly increased USSR's influence in Pakistan. The Indian government of the mid-1980s under PM Rajiv Gandhi saw Zia ul Haq's Pakistan as the buffer which would protect Rajiv's India from increased Soviet presence in India which could very possibly enable the Indian Communists from politically taking over at some point. Rajiv Gandhi was ready to assist Zia to get back into power in case he was toppled by Soviet-assisted Pakistani leftists where the Soviets would try to extend their influence into Pakistan beyond their presence in Afghanistan. From my 2015 thread :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good !
> 
> 
> 
> "If you're serious, then the first thing you need to do is get this idea out of your head"
> 
> "Nope. Take it or leave it."
> 
> They are not snark and arrogant.



Yes all Fronts. Russis got wiped put in Europe. Its economy is destroyed..its aviation blocked. Even Putin cant travel anymore. Russians lost 45% in their savings in 24h. 

Putin faces another problem. His "saving Ukraine" dont work. Ukrainians fiercly fight for their freedom. His narrative breaks 

The biggest issues are his oligarchs. They lose evrything right now.

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## dBSPL

"Russian citizens studying at universities in Europe are expelled from their schools. They will then be deported."

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498275478666465280Is this news true?

That's racism. What is called Western democracy is an illusion!

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## Apollon

dBSPL said:


> Is Cyprus included? (as you know, one of the centers used for offshore transfers)



Yes Cyprus included. Its EU wide ban



dBSPL said:


> "Russian citizens studying at universities in Europe are expelled from their schools. They will then be deported."
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498275478666465280Is this news true?
> 
> That's racism. What is called Western democracy is an illusion!



Thats not racism. Its security. We are at war.


----------



## Zibago

dBSPL said:


> Russia already had difficulties in modernizing its military systems for a long time with the post-Soviet collapse. Russia is traditionally the world's largest land army. So the inventory is huge in every sense... This was not a problem that could be solved in 3-5 years. In terms of the necessary machinery and looms, and for some products, the technology had difficulty in competing.
> 
> Before Russia could complete this phase, it inevitably set about consolidating its outer security concept with military measures. Particularly, intervention in Syria is a costly issue for Russia. Resources that should have been spent on military modernization began to flow into military operations.
> 
> Russia still has invaluable conventional military assets and, more importantly, doctrines for point operations. However, the consequences of a large-scale invasion were heavy for Russia. (A possible defeat in Ukraine may, first of all, destroy the perception of mighty Russia in the minds. This is what Russia cannot afford either.)
> 
> A wave of economic sanctions is now likely to begin on an unprecedented scale. But I think the main critical issue is the disappearance of the activities necessary for Russia's defense and aerospace industry, which I mentioned above. I opened a separate thread on this subject.
> 
> In short, the Ukraine war creates a reality in which Russia will be vitally dependent on China in every sense. This will lead to the political regression of Russia.
> 
> ///
> 
> From Turkey's point of view, I think Russia should not be defeated. However, this should not be a decisive NATO victory either. If a certain victory situation occurs, the pressure on Turkey will increase, it doesn't matter from which direction.


From perspective of Pakistan a Russia that is more dependent on China will force it to reevaluate its commitments with a certain neighbor both Pakistan and China have disputes with 

Whatever the outcome of the war maybe Russia's increased reliance on China will have a positive impact for us security wise


----------



## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> "Russian citizens studying at universities in Europe are expelled from their schools. They will then be deported."
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498275478666465280Is this news true?
> 
> That's racism. What is called Western democracy is an illusion!


*This cannot be true whatsoever. It would be a breach of Article 7 of ECHR and Protocol 1 Article 2 "Right to Education"*
​

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## kingQamaR

Muhammed45 said:


> The massage that it conveys, is, hey Muslim you have to suffer. No one cares, no one shows sympathy, no one is interested in seeing your teaeful eyes. You have to suffer And suffer



Hasn't that happened in all wars. Even the wars in Chechnya and Syria from your hero Putin you Iranians must be on your knees if you are looking up to this guy

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## dBSPL

Apollon said:


> Thats not racism. Its security. We are at war.


The majority of Russians in Europe declare that they are against the Ukrania's invasion. A person cannot be punished just because of race/nation. There is no such thing in the law of war. Do not talk nonsense! other Q, Is there an official declaration of war?

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## That Guy

jamahir said:


> "Lost on all fronts" ? Umm, this is just the 5th day of the war and as other members have been saying, the Americans about 30 days to partially defeat Saddam's forces in 2003. Isn't America a SUPAAAPOWAAA ?
> 
> 
> 
> So you want Putin's oligarchs to be replaced with government that is puppet of the Western governments and controlled by the plutocrats in Wall Street ?
> 
> 
> 
> Can you tell me how many of those 40+ million Ukranians are from the Russian-speaking regions and also those from other parts of Ukraine who don't support the government because there was a vid yesterday in this thread of street interviews of Kiev women who essentially said "To hell with the central government" and said they won't send their sons to fight for the government ?
> 
> 
> 
> "Naked national interests" as in maintaining the extreme Capitalist socio-economic system and the actually non-democracy if seen in the context of successive Indian governments from 1947 till now. Indian governments never really sided with the USSR and in the 1980s the Indian government was actually scared of possibly increased USSR's influence in Pakistan. The Indian government of the mid-1980s under PM Rajiv Gandhi saw Zia ul Haq's Pakistan as the buffer which would protect Rajiv's India from increased Soviet presence in India which could very possibly enable the Indian Communists from politically taking over at some point. Rajiv Gandhi was ready to assist Zia to get back into power in case he was toppled by Soviet-assisted Pakistani leftists where the Soviets would try to extend their influence into Pakistan beyond their presence in Afghanistan. From my 2015 thread :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good !
> 
> 
> 
> "If you're serious, then the first thing you need to do is get this idea out of your head"
> 
> "Nope. Take it or leave it."
> 
> They are not snark and arrogant.


Because you said you don't believe false propaganda, and I was pointing out that you do. Not arrogant to show that what you said was itself arrogant.



Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498279966588481540
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498279534596136965
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498279067204079619


Protests outside an embassy is not a threat. Russians know that nothing is gonna happen to their staff, it's just more propaganda and an empty threat.


----------



## Apollon

dBSPL said:


> The majority of Russians in Europe declare that they are against the Ukrania's invasion. A person cannot be punished just because of race/nation. There is no such thing in the law of war. Do not talk nonsense! other Q, Is there an official declaration of war?



Its not punishment. Its security. They can return when putin is gone.

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## dBSPL

Ukraine demanded that all Russian troops (including Crimea and Donbass) leave the country immediately for peace

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> The majority of Russians in Europe declare that they are against the Ukranian invasion. A person cannot be punished just because of race/nation. There is no such thing in the law of war. Do not talk nonsense! other Q, Is there an official declaration of war?


His low IQ response is indicative of the feeble-minded thinking of some in Europe, who don't even know their own laws and just spout the first thing that comes into their minds. Imagine for a moment if this were true - what message would it send to ordinary Russians - to the world - it would polarize Russians, ordinary Russians, the people the EU/West need on their side for regimen change. 

It would undermine and undo everything that the west has weaved into their narrative of freedoms, liberty and equality for all. Some members on this forum really need to engage their brain before they put their mouths in motion.

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## kingQamaR

Paul2 said:


> I counted 6 opportunities for cutoff in the south.
> 
> Big inconvenience: lots of air seemingly being projected from the peninsular. Lots of SEAD, and air screens will be needed until airbases are suppressed.
> 
> View attachment 819527



Looks like Ukraine has forced Russia into extra time. When you have a motivated and determined nation you have a team. The Russians don't want to be there.

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## Apollon

RescueRanger said:


> His low IQ response is indicative of the feeble-minded thinking of some in Europe, who don't even know their own laws and just spout the first thing that comes into their minds. Imagine for a moment if this were true - what message would it send to ordinary Russians - to the world - it would polarize Russians, ordinary Russians, the people the EU/West need on their side for regimen change.
> 
> It would undermine and undo everything that the west has weaved into their narrative of freedoms, liberty and equality for all. Some members on this forum really need to engage their brain before they put their mouths in motion.



I dont see it that way. Its for their own good. How do they plan to return russia? No russian plane is allowed to enter EU airspace.


----------



## dBSPL

Apollon said:


> Its not punishment. Its security. They can return when putin is gone.


You disregard the presumption of innocence, the universal principle of justice. You cannot prosecute people for a crime they are not partners with, you cannot confiscate their vested rights and property.

Europe can do this. But when it does, should no longer talk about democracy.

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## jamahir

kingQamaR said:


> Hasn't that happened in all wars. Even the wars in Chechnya and Syria from your hero Putin you Iranians must be on your knees if you are looking up to this guy



And what has happened in the Syrian war ?



That Guy said:


> Not arrogant to show that what you said was itself arrogant.



I am never arrogant. We have exchanged posts yesterday or the day before and in those too you have been snarky and arrogant.

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## maverick1977

Based on what is transpiring, talks will fail and the world should expect a nasty war in Ukraine, i am afraid ten of thousands will perish..


----------



## RescueRanger

Maxim Oreshkin, Putin's economic advisor - advising Putin about what to do with the Western sanctions on the country.

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## Invicta

FuturePAF said:


> Probably going to be another East west divided; along the Dnieper River but the Russians will probably take Odessa and the entire southern coast to make Ukraine landlocked.
> 
> Such as the following:
> 
> View attachment 819536


You are right the only finish to this is going to be a more divided Ukraine. But I don't think Kharkiv,Dnepropetrovsk,Mykolaiv and Kherson will be kept by the Russians, these areas have large numbers of Ukrainian sympathizers, Russia will struggle to hold ground and implement its will which might force them to reconsider giving Odesa up as well. 

Luhansk, Donestk and Zaporizhia is a foregone conclusion.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Apollon said:


> Zelensky is in weak Position. SUPAAAPOWAAA Putler on other side lost on all fronts and has not achieved any objective yet.
> 
> I guess one of the oligarchs pulls the plug



Stop chatting shit. The entire foundation of the Freemasonry world has been shaken by President Putin and the Russian state.

This war is a big blow against the Swift and fiat money. And when it is settled and done, many nations will abandon both of them. 

Keep in mind, if Russians feel threatened, they'll start deploying nukes and the next thing you know is malhama (Armageddon).

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## jamahir

RescueRanger said:


> Maxim Oreshkin, Putin's economic advisor - advising Putin about what to do with the Western sanctions on the country.
> View attachment 819539



NATO photoshopping being posted in this thread isn't good, yes ?


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498266799720513541

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## RescueRanger

jamahir said:


> NATO photoshopping being posted in this thread isn't good, yes ?


Consider it an Intermission from the heavy debate over the last 4 days.

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## Titanium100

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498266799720513541



Incorrect map.. Coming from someone whos neutral

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498282198377631749

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## RescueRanger

And so the Xenophobia beings, peanut minded cretins attacking innocent Russians because of decisions made by a man they have no authority or control over.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498063410189250563

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498269905870802949
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498271549798891528
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498272299111301120
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498272343847800836
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498272467193847809




I don't believe it. So much propaganda has been thrown around by the Western media (Dajjal's mouthpieces).

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## FuturePAF

I hope Pakistan votes to Condemn the invasion of Russia at today’s emergency session of the UN. *Based on IK’s stance (per his track record)* that dialogue not war should resolve disputes between nations.

This will not undermine Pakistan’s stance in the *disputed area of Jammu and Kashmir* and the legitimacy resistance of the Kashmir people under occupation, not that different from the Ukrainian people under Russian occupation. (Also, down the line considering most nations regard Taiwan as part of “One China” and not a sovereign nation, Pakistan won’t be penalized for abstaining or even siding with China should that matter come to a head.) 

Pakistan still stand up for the Russian’s people legitimate desire to resolve their security concern via a vi NATO and Ukraine potentially basing offensive systems in Ukraine, but not through Force.


----------



## A1Kaid

Biden banning Russia from US airspace because of Ukraine


What we know about the Russian attack on Ukraine so far.




www.militarytimes.com


----------



## Abid123

dBSPL said:


> "Russian citizens studying at universities in Europe are expelled from their schools. They will then be deported."
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498275478666465280Is this news true?
> 
> That's racism. What is called Western democracy is an illusion!


I am actually glad they are doing this. Now entire world can see their "true colors". Just sad that a war was required to see it.

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## Titanium100

As someone whos neutral in this conflict I think both sides are exaggerating a bit especially the Ukrainian side.

1. Ukraine is putting up resistance which is obvious it has 200k armed forces and paramilitary this was always expected nothing surprising.. I never assumed they would fold even pre-war.

2. Russia has made significiant gains despite the dog-fight

3. Both sides are capable of keep fighting for another 12 months nonestop which will happen until someone is pushed and defeated..

4. I think the Zelenskyy regime will survive this but lose significiant territories and will only survive on the western part of the country as the end game as Russia will consolidate the east including Kyiv

5. After few months of fighting there will be lull including ceasefire that will last for years and Russia will try to consolidate the east before launching another attack on the western part that it has left for Ukraine in the end game

6. Zelenskyy and co will try hard to get funding and rebuild a stronger army on the western portion of the country in order to get back Kyiv and remaining. They will attempt to rebuild for 20 years

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## dBSPL

Russia announced that it is closing its airspace to 36 countries, including France, Germany, Spain and Canada.

Countries that have closed their airspace to Russia






Turkey has announced that it will not close its airspace to Russia. However, there is probably a lot of pressure to Turkey as well.

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## Apollon

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Stop chatting shit. The entire foundation of the Freemasonry world has been shaken by President Putin and the Russian state.
> 
> This war is a big blow against the Swift and fiat money. And when it is settled and done, many nations will abandon both of them.
> 
> Keep in mind, if Russians feel threatened, they'll start deploying nukes and the next thing you know is malhama (Armageddon).



Doesnt look like it.

Putin achieved absolute european unity. He teached the EU power politics. Infact never before threw EU their entire economic power into conflict.

Its positive for us, because the hippies lost power in EU now


----------



## FuturePAF

Invicta said:


> You are right the only finish to this is going to be a more divided Ukraine. But I don't think Kharkiv,Dnepropetrovsk,Mykolaiv and Kherson will be kept by the Russians, these areas have large numbers of Ukrainian sympathizers, Russia will struggle to hold ground and implement its will which might force them to reconsider giving Odesa up as well.
> 
> Luhansk, Donestk and Zaporizhia is a foregone conclusion.


True, it is possible the sanctions could be so severe that Russia is forced to give back all territory it has taken, even Crimea and the two separatist regions under an autonomy agreement.

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## Paul2

kingQamaR said:


> Looks like Ukraine has forced Russia into extra time. When you have a motivated and determined nation you have a team. The Russians don't want to be there.



I see a seachange in Russian tactics. Did they replace their operation commander after all?

No news of entire convoys being destroyed anymore today, or other dumb mistakes.

Much slower, bigger formations now used in the south. Less piecemeal unit formations being ambushed. Few ammo, and fuel trucks.

Russian aviation seemed to have gotten much sneakier due to realisation of AA threat. On 2 videos both the helo, and a bomber were almost hugging the ground.

Also, we see "serious airforce" being used by Russians for the first time, deployed from much further away.

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## beast89

ziolensky is releasing convicts with combat experience

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## dBSPL

Donetsk Volovaha

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498291827623055365


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## Titanium100

beast89 said:


> ziolensky is releasing convicts with combat experience



Lmao you gotta respect Zelenskyy his a dog.. He has fight in him

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## RescueRanger

Unconfirmed reports - non Ukrainian migrants making their way to the Polish border have reported seeing bodies of students of evacuees who appeared to have frozen to death in the cold. Source: AJN . Video included below:

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## Invicta

FuturePAF said:


> True, it is possible the sanctions could be so severe that Russia is forced to give back all territory it has taken, even Crimea and the two separatist regions under an autonomy agreement.


That is highly unlikely, both sides will have to compromise, Putin will loose face if he has to give everything back that would be a Russian red line. They will keep the regions and maybe give back Odessa but one thing is for certain that Ukraine's forces will be beefed up whether they are in NATO or not.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Apollon said:


> Doesnt look like it.
> 
> Putin achieved absolute european unity. He teached the EU power politics. Infact never before threw EU their entire economic power into conflict.
> 
> Its positive for us, because the hippies lost power in EU now




Now, here is Russia bringing the hammer in another angle:



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498283494660886536

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## Titanium100

RescueRanger said:


>



This was expected as Ukraine is cold as hell in the winters and warm as hell in the summer


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## dBSPL

"According to Ukrainian officers in their telegram groups, only 1/7 of the captured prisoners are Russian. The Russians are consuming all the non-Russian peoples and consuming the energy and young population of the Autonomous countries for possible independence. This soldier is Buryat. That is, from the Mongolian autonomous region in Russia."

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498279011209945088

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## RescueRanger

Titanium100 said:


> This was expected as Ukraine is cold as hell in the winters and warm as hell in the summer


No loss of life is "expected".

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Titanium100 said:


> Lmao you gotta respect Zelenskyy his a dog.. He has fight in him



Zelensly is Jewish. The PM is Jewish as well. So the question is, is Ukraine a Jewish state?

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## Apollon

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Now, here is Russia bringing the hammer in another angle:
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498283494660886536



Thats no hammer. Nobody cares. Nobody travels russia. China is closed anyways and Lufthansa changed routes already 3 days ago.

Meanwhile Russians cant go anywhere


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498284746262126597


----------



## Ali_Baba

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Now, here is Russia bringing the hammer in another angle:
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498283494660886536



but .. EU Citizens can go anywhere they want except for Russia and only difference is some extra time/cost.

Russian citzens cannot go anywhere in the western world right now - EU / USA etc.. 

Hurts the Russians alot more...

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498285849355735044

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## TheNoob

RescueRanger said:


> His low IQ response is indicative of the feeble-minded thinking of some in Europe, who don't even know their own laws and just spout the first thing that comes into their minds. Imagine for a moment if this were true - what message would it send to ordinary Russians - to the world - it would polarize Russians, ordinary Russians, the people the EU/West need on their side for regimen change.
> 
> It would undermine and undo everything that the west has weaved into their narrative of freedoms, liberty and equality for all. Some members on this forum really need to engage their brain before they put their mouths in motion.



To be fair, the US made concentration camps for the US-Japanese population for the duration of the entire WW2. lol


PS: Before anyone makes any assumption, a concentration camp is exactly that. A "Concentration" Camp.

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## That Guy

jamahir said:


> And what has happened in the Syrian war ?
> 
> 
> 
> I am never arrogant. We have exchanged posts yesterday or the day before and in those too you have been snarky and arrogant.


Saying you are never arrogant is in itself an arrogant statement. Lol.

This is my last reply to you, considering you don't want to listen to factual information.

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498285849355735044











TheNoob said:


> To be fair, the US made concentration camps for the US-Japanese population for the duration of the entire WW2. lol
> 
> 
> PS: Before anyone makes any assumption, a concentration camp is exactly that. A "Concentration" Camp.


*This is not WWII, there is something called the ECHR which all European nations have subscribed to and are signatories of. *

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## Apollon

Switzerland just announced that they follow EU sanctions. Thats heavy blow for Russians monetary situation. It was their last stand..Oligarchs lose enormous too

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## TheNoob

RescueRanger said:


> *This is not WWII, there is something called the ECHR which all European nations have subscribed to and are signatories of. *



If only the general population gave two hoots about that. 
But let's see.

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## dBSPL

Russian Ministry of Defense: All civilians must leave Kiev now

A call of massacre?

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## RescueRanger

TheNoob said:


> If only the general population gave two hoots about that.
> But let's see.


The general population are not in a position to revoke student visa and eject people from a country which is what my rebuttal was aimed at.



dBSPL said:


> Russian Ministry of Defense: All civilians must leave Kiev now
> 
> A call of massacre?


Scare tactics!

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## Paul2

kingQamaR said:


> Looks like Ukraine has forced Russia into extra time. When you have a motivated and determined nation you have a team. The Russians don't want to be there.



I also don't see individual small detachments sent to do anything. They certainly realised the threat of roaming small units through the countryside full of gorilla warriors. Or... maybe they just noticed how much they lost to AWOL, and desertion?

Russians are starting to entrench in some areas, and retreated from a potential cutoff left of Dnieper.

It will be a question how they will be resupplying theese dugouts far into Ukrainian held territory?

They are starting avoiding fights in some areas, preferring to retreat, and regroup with bigger force.

Artillery, and MLRS got into the field now, and now firing on Ukrainian forces from point blank range.

Certainly, there is a new commander who knows what he is doing.

Still, Russians are severely overextended at their current land gains.


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## dBSPL

In the occupied city of Berdansk, local residents shout “Домой”, meaning “To your homes”


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498296012330393604

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## kingQamaR

Paul2 said:


> I also don't see individual small detachments sent to do anything. They certainly realised the threat of roaming small units through the countryside full of gorilla warriors. Or... maybe they just noticed how much they lost to AWOL, and desertion?
> 
> Russians are starting to entrench in some areas, and retreated from a potential cutoff left of Dnieper.
> 
> It will be a question how they will be resupplying theese dugouts far into Ukrainian held territory?
> 
> They are starting avoiding fights in some areas, preferring to retreat, and regroup with bigger force.
> 
> Artillery, and MLRS got into the field now, and now firing on Ukrainian forces from point blank range.
> 
> Certainly, there is a new commander who knows what he is doing.
> 
> Still, Russians are severely overextended at their current land gains.



To think that is to seek to negate the bravery of the Ukrainians. Please consider how this sounds; that the Russians are only losing because they're not trying hard enough? Absolute BS, the myth of the Russian military is being made clear by the unparalleled bravery of the Ukrainians.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498293986087387139

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498295494900072460

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## QWECXZ

dBSPL said:


> Russian Ministry of Defense: All civilians must leave Kiev now
> 
> A call of massacre?


If the news is true, it could possibly mean that they have managed to suppress the air defense and want to finally use the Russian Air Force extensively and bomb Kiev heavily.

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## Vergennes

Ukrainians have captured a Russian soldier... he's from buryatia


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498298347844780037


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## Paul2

dBSPL said:


> Russian Ministry of Defense: All civilians must leave Kiev now
> 
> A call of massacre?



Kiyv is effectively a fortress now, and the fighting some distance away from it actually benefits Russians.

They will not try the day 1, and 2 bum rush again.

I see now why Ukrainians sent off some territorials now from Kiyv. Maybe they will flank Russian forces near Kiyv, or go relieve Karkiv

The biggest question mark now is Polish jets



Vergennes said:


> Ukrainians have captured a Russian soldier... he's from buryatia
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498298347844780037


蒙古人

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## Titanium100

Nobody is talking about how lackluster NATO preparation was leading upto this.

Despite saying they knew of the Russian invasion the preparation was extremely weak because they were over-confident in themselves that they could scare him away etc etc but boy they miscalculated and I remember saying this that puting approx only 23.000 forces along their eastern flank was utter stupidity because that is not enough and I said this back in November-December when Putin put 129.000 forces on the Ukrainian border?

What if they get blitz they won't be able to do much these but you need atleast 150.000 on the eastern flank period


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## Clutch

RescueRanger said:


> Unconfirmed reports - non Ukrainian migrants making their way to the Polish border have reported seeing bodies of students of evacuees who appeared to have frozen to death in the cold. Source: AJN . Video included below:


This is tragic.

Because he is black the Ukrainians are making the non-white students freeze and die. This is a war crimes. Now you know who the Russians are fighting. Nazis.

Who in the world puts innocent students to death??

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## Meengla

I can't believe Russians would still go for Kiev! Leave the city alone. To capture that is not necessary and the blood of the innocent civilians will be upon Russia. Wrap up the war by limiting territorial gains in the eastern and southern parts of Ukraine and negotiate to get the damn guarantees which were the excuse for this war.


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## TheNoob

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498293986087387139
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498295494900072460



This last tweet, that one is sad. 
Where is their cover?


----------



## Titanium100

Clutch said:


> This is tragic.
> 
> Because he is black the Ukrainians are making the non-white students freeze and dye. This is a war crimes. Now you know who the Russians are fighting. Nazis.
> 
> Who in the world puts innocent students to death??



This is an absolute ridiculous bullshxt conspiracy and how did you come to that conclusion. He basically said he saw people die on the road he didn't say they were students just civilians most likely ukrainians and everyone else fleeing.. Stop this nitpicking stuff that is not there and try to listen to what they are saying instead of using fantasy.. Besides there are very few black ppl in Ukraine hence the fleeing masses dying were majority locals


----------



## kingQamaR

Vergennes said:


> Ukrainians have captured a Russian soldier... he's from buryatia
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498298347844780037



the Geneva convention forbids parading prisoners of war. they are not criminals, they are taken prisoner by the opposing side to take them out of combat. ukraine rightly have the world's public opinion on their side but parading prisoners makes one bad

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## Titanium100

Seems like people are fleeing after the warning to vacate the city 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498303044525645824


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## Ali_Baba

Paul2 said:


> The biggest question mark now is Polish jets
> 
> 
> 蒙古人



Ukraine literally just needs to muster one airstrike of 20+ jets agains the column heading towards the capital - it will be the last mission for most of the pilots for sure but it will really tear up the column as they are all perfectly lined up.

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## Trango Towers

kingQamaR said:


> To think that is to seek to negate the bravery of the Ukrainians. Please consider how this sounds; that the Russians are only losing because they're not trying hard enough? Absolute BS, the myth of the Russian military is being made clear by the unparalleled bravery of the Ukrainians.


OK some simple question.

1. Why is the Internet still on air.
2. Why is Ukrainian TV still on air
3. Why is electricty still function to all of Ukraine 
4. Why are the roads and bridges still in tacts and supplies and free movement in Ukraine
5. Why is the massive Russian airforce not in the air?
6. Why have only limited troops moved into Ukraine?


Now in Iraq they even destroyed water purification and sewage plants let alone electricty.
These are usually the 1stvtargets. Why has Russian not hit these?

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## Vergennes

This is becoming gold comedy


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498303362927898628


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## Apollon

Wow russia gives up to save the ruble. Central bank says there is nothing they can do



https://www.rt.com/business/550861-ruble-off-life-support/


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## Clutch

Titanium100 said:


> This is an absolute ridiculous bullshxt conspiracy and how did you come to that conclusion. He basically said he saw people die on the road he didn't say they were students just civilians most likely ukrainians and everyone else fleeing.. Stop this nitpicking stuff that is not there and try to listen to what they are saying instead of using fantasy.. Besides there are very few black ppl in Ukraine hence the fleeing massing dying were majority locals



There are no good sides in this war. Both are in the wrong. The Ukrainian Nazi alliance is also wrong. That was my highlight. Otherwise I condemn both. You need to relax and allow others to speak.


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## RescueRanger

Talks between Ukraine and Russia have concluded.

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## Mrc

Vergennes said:


> This is becoming gold comedy
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498303362927898628




Pakistan must operationalize several hundred of these Turkish drones of not already done so...

They are ideal tank and air defence busters

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498304310685409281


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## maverick1977

dBSPL said:


> Russian Ministry of Defense: All civilians must leave Kiev now
> 
> A call of massacre?


any link to it ? pls share...


----------



## RescueRanger

Ali_Baba said:


> Ukraine literally just needs to muster one airstrike of 20+ jets agains the column heading towards the capital - it will be the last mission for most of the pilots for sure but it will really tear up the column as they are all perfectly lined up.


They don't have 20 jets, they wont be getting 20 jets in the current trench of supplies from Bulgaria and Poland.


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## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> This is becoming gold comedy
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498303362927898628



The TB2 should be within the engagement parameters of the Buk - but it could not shoot them down. Quite handy against radar sam systems it seems.


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## Stealth

In this conflict btw Russia and Ukraine, dunya may ee kasa mulk hey jisnay zaleel hona he hona huta hey aur phir usnay apni ***** wali karaye hey guess the country 
 aaj kal us desh kay looog dono sides ko ye samjanay ki koshish kar rahay hain kay unhonay kyo vote nahe diya aur kyo nahi dena chahye tha aur kyo na day kar theek kya... matlab zalalaat saath saath hey unkay

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## kingQamaR

Trango Towers said:


> OK some simple question.
> 
> 1. Why is the Internet still on air.
> 2. Why is Ukrainian TV still on air
> 3. Why is electricty still function to all of Ukraine
> 4. Why are the roads and bridges still in tacts and supplies and free movement in Ukraine
> 5. Why is the massive Russian airforce not in the air?
> 6. Why have only limited troops moved into Ukraine?
> 
> 
> Now in Iraq they even destroyed water purification and sewage plants let alone electricty.
> These are usually the 1stvtargets. Why has Russian not hit these?



Your Russian Iraq below 

In September 1999, Russian armed forces launched a military operation in Chechnya, with the declared aim of combating Islamist terrorism. De facto independent from the Russian Federation since 1991, Chechnya had already experienced one war, between December 1994 and August 1996. After intensive bombardment of the capital Grozny and the south of the country, Russian troops moved into Chechen territory, reaching the outskirts of Grozny in December 1999. Their entrance to the city was accompanied by mass violence against civilians, and in January 2000, the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe condemned ‘as totally unacceptable, the current conduct of military operations in Chechnya with its tragic consequences for large numbers of the civil population of this republic.’ It considered that ‘As a result of this indiscriminate and disproportionate use of force, innocent non-combatants in Chechnya are suffering most serious violations of such human rights as the right to life, the right to liberty and the right to security.’ (PACE, 27/01/2000).

Following an investigative mission to Chechnya in February 2000, the International Federation for Human Rights (FIDH) listed these violations as follows: ‘destruction of towns and villages unjustified by military necessity; bombardments of and assaults on undefended towns and villages; summary executions and murders, physical abuse and torture; intentionally causing grave harm to people not directly involved in hostilities; deliberate attacks on the civilian population, on public transport and health workers; arbitrary arrest and detention of civilians; looting of private property.’ The FIDH concluded that these violations ‘constitute war crimes and crimes against humanity due to their massive, systematic and generalised character, according to the definitions of customary international law and the different international bodies.’ (FIDH, February 2000: 49).

The nature of the violence changed from March 2000. With Russian troops now occupying more or less the whole territory, police control operations took the form of arbitrary arrests, torture and disappearances. These were persistent and systematic violations of human rights carried out over an extensive period, facts which led the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe and the European Parliament to describe them as war crimes and crimes against humanity (PACE, 2/04/2003; European Parliament 3/07/2003).

So the period from December 1999 to February 2000 seems to mark a significant phase in the violence carried out in Chechnya; it corresponds with the arrival of Russian troops in the territory and their first contacts with civilians who had not managed to flee from the fighting. It gives us a clear picture of how the Russian troops were deployed (mixed forces under the control of different ministries made up of conscripts and contract soldiers along with career troops) and also how the Russians authorities employed a political rhetoric which ‘in a double movement portrayed the entire Chechen population as combatants and all combatants as terrorists’ (Le Huérou and Regamey, 2008: 115).

This is the period on which our case study will focus. In particular, we will examine the massacres carried out in the surroundings of Grozny (the village of Alkhan-Yurt) and in the city itself (the districts of Staropromyslovski and Novye Aldi). When Russians troops entered the north of the republic they encountered very little resistance; most of the armed clashes took place in the capital, where the majority of the population lives, and in surrounding villages and the south of the country.. The massacres of Alkhan-Yurt, Staropromyslovski and Novye Aldi are the most thoroughly documented ones. What we know about this conflict is limited by the fact that it is a recent one, which was mostly hidden from the eyes of the world. The bulk of our information relies on two sources: firstly, work on the ground during these events carried out by NGOs, either Russian (the Memorial human rights center, the Russian-Chechen Friendship Society) or international (Amnesty International, FIDH, Human Rights Watch), along with press articles and audio-visual material; secondly, the numerous judgements on the conflict handed down by the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) which today provide an extremely valuable resource for precisely establishing what happened and who was responsible.


----------



## Englishman

Dear Mods

@The Eagle 

Please can you do a preemptive strike on @Apollon ?

Or maybe a "special operation". This teenager is going to go bezerk on this thread.

Warm wishes

Englishman (who hasn't drank alcohol or consumed pork since 1988, alhomdillah)

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## dbc

FuturePAF said:


> Even if the Russians take all of Ukraine, an insurgency by the 40+ million Ukrainians against the few hundreds of thousands of Russian force will keep the Russians and the western alliance preoccupied. This is what India fears, as the attention will shift from China to Europe.
> 
> In the following video, we are reminded by the interviewer, that India (which calls itself the largest democracy) sided with the Soviets when they invaded Afghanistan in 1979. The only democratic country to do so. This should be emphasized in today’s context, to highlight India does not stand on principles as it likes to claim but naked national interests.


well when Chinese tanks roll into New Delhi I assume Ukraine will be less than sympathetic. Let's hope Putin's armour does not run out of fuel while he rushes to India's aid.

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## Apollon

Englishman said:


> Dear Mods
> 
> @The Eagle
> 
> Please can you do a preemptive strike on @Apollon ?
> 
> Or maybe a "special operation". This teenager is going to go bezerk on this thread.
> 
> Warm wishes
> 
> Englishman (who hasn't drank alcohol or consumed pork since 1988, alhomdillah)



As you can see in my posts i dont go bezerk.

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## jamahir

FuturePAF said:


> I hope Pakistan votes to Condemn the invasion of Russia at today’s emergency session of the UN. *Based on IK’s stance (per his track record)* that dialogue not war should resolve disputes between nations.



Do you condemn NATO / Western military invasions throughout the world since the end of World War 2 ?



Titanium100 said:


> 3. Both sides are capable of keep fighting for another 12 months nonestop which will happen until someone is pushed and defeated..



"Someone" is NATO which will intervene. I heard on an Indian news channel that some European countries ( forgot the names ) are sending more weapons ( vehicles also I think ) to the Ukraine government.



Apollon said:


> Putin achieved absolute european unity. He teached the EU power politics. Infact never before threw EU their entire economic power into conflict.



Right, NATO came into existence on 2022-02-23. 



beast89 said:


> ziolensky is releasing convicts with combat experience



Zelensky must be asked, how many children in Donetsk, Luhansk etc did his Nazi soldiers kill.



Titanium100 said:


> Lmao you gotta respect Zelenskyy his a dog.. He has fight in him



Dogs are cruel and Zelensky is being cruel. He is unnecessarily subjecting the citizens to war. He should just negotiate with the Russians.



Apollon said:


> I feel sorry for them. I saw videos of captured russkies. Most are kids my age. They looked terrified and i hope they get treated good. I heared they call their moms to tell them they are ok.



I read that the Western governments' and Ukraine government's propaganda about the Ukranian military defenders of "Snake island" being killed by the Russians is false. The defenders were actually arrested by the Russians and treated well. There was a vid in this thread yesterday about one of those 83 defenders being shown by the Russians a vid of Zelensky declaring the defenders dead and doing propaganda using their names and that watching Ukranian soldier crying because Zelensky, who they served with their life, is misusing their names for his selfish benefit.



dBSPL said:


> In the occupied city of Berdansk, local residents shout “Домой”, meaning “To your homes”
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498296012330393604



If the occupiers were American or any other Western military those protestors would have been shot.

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## Paul2

Ali_Baba said:


> Ukraine literally just needs to muster one airstrike of 20+ jets agains the column heading towards the capital - it will be the last mission for most of the pilots for sure but it will really tear up the column as they are all perfectly lined up.



There are no need for that. That "3km" convoy was already bombed repeatedly, and suppressed by artillery. It's too deep behind Russian lines, but I believe losses there are severe.

Instead, there are *free* airstrike opportunities. This following screws strategic options with these small spear pushes, and destroys units with more certainty because they already got very, very extended, and gorillas/territorials may pick them off later at small cost, and grab their equipment.

After that, Ukrainians will need to find out weaknesses in Russian deployment, and use aviation against that.

I repeat, Kiyv area now is a fortress which soaks 1 BTG per day with ease, and Russians are afraid to do anything big there now. Moreover, local mobile defence, and Baraktars are already seemingly doing good at destroying flanking pushes.

Instead, something more daring, and unexpected can be done now. What about bombing Belo? I believe NATO got all Belo air defences mapped now.

Or, the they can thoroughly cleanup Kharkiv surround, push off Russian artillery, and unfold the front there again. I see a lot of artillery there, hide & seek urban battles in suburbs, but not much units capable of holding the line with serious armour/firepower.

South is a big question mark. I believe Russians have air defence from Crimea there now. NATO's eyes should know.

@jhungary I think it's playing into Ukrainian side to not to let the flow of battle to slowdown. Russians will not let them exploit their initial messups for long.

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## mike2000 is back

vostok said:


> It is quite painful times for me. No will to prove something to anyone.


My sympathies. However thought you will be routing for Russia 100%, since its your country of origin.

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## Khanate

*China: Sanctions unacceptable*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498209952883781640

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## NotSure

Probably a downing of a Bayraktar with Tor-M1:

https://****/faceofwar/16135


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## Titanium100

Lmao what is that rapper doing amongst the bureaucrats (Photo from the Ukraine-Russia talks)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498310723612684290


Apollon said:


> As you can see in my posts i dont go bezerk.



unban him @The Eagle

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## mike2000 is back

Non


jamahir said:


> Zelensky must be asked, how many children in Donetsk, Luhansk etc did his Nazi soldiers kill.


Nonsense. Ukraines central government has every right to fight for its territorial intergrity against separatists groups on its territory, just like the Russians did against the Chechens separatists. Did you also condemn Russias "brutal" killings of chechnyans? (Or you didn't because they were commie . Lol) ? Using your logic Russia should have let chechnyans have their own country (which I'm not actually against) instead of fighting and killing them to remain part of Russia isn't it? Lol
When there is a war there will always be collateral damage obviously, however doesn't invalidate the reason for the war. Just like India has every right to get rid of the many separatists groups in its North East and south of the country who have been active for decades, just like Sri Lankas central government had every right to get rid of its Tamil separatists/Militants, just like Pakistan does with baluchistan separatists, just like China does with Tibetan and Uygurs separatists, just like Turkey and Iran does with Kurdish separatist groups/militants, just like a Burmese government does with its many separatists groups trying to divide the country etc etc. The list is so long I can go on and on . No government will tolerate armed separatists groups against its territorial intergrity. 
So Ukraine has every right to get rid of those russian backed separatists like every sovereign country's military does .

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## maverick1977

Trango Towers said:


> OK some simple question.
> 
> 1. Why is the Internet still on air.
> 2. Why is Ukrainian TV still on air
> 3. Why is electricty still function to all of Ukraine
> 4. Why are the roads and bridges still in tacts and supplies and free movement in Ukraine
> 5. Why is the massive Russian airforce not in the air?
> 6. Why have only limited troops moved into Ukraine?
> 
> 
> Now in Iraq they even destroyed water purification and sewage plants let alone electricty.
> These are usually the 1stvtargets. Why has Russian not hit these?


Very good point, Iraq lost it all. and still the perpetrators were liberators... , what a world we live in...

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## The Eagle

Titanium100 said:


> unban



Use of derogatory term or name calling or insulting anyone is not welcome here. Request rejected.

Regards,

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## Titanium100

Europeans on the streets say Ukraine is fighting for their civilization so we need to support them

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498314071514521605
Mariupol is under-siege


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498315336810217481


----------



## mike2000 is back

dBSPL said:


> While 110,000 of our brothers and sisters were massacred in Bosnia, we did not see a tenth of the current arguments such - blue-eyed, blond-haired Europeans - in the western media. Disgusting, simply disgusting!
> 
> Putin, you fell into the trap of these bastards!


Yeah same with tens of thousands of chechnyans isn't it?


----------



## jamahir

mike2000 is back said:


> Did you also condemn Russias "brutal" killings of chechnyans? (Or you didn't because they were commie . Lol) ? Using your logic Russia should have let chechnyans have their own country (which I'm not sctually against) instead of fighting and killing then to remain part of Russia isn't it? Lol



1. Russian governments stopped being commie in 1991.

2. The Chechens, most of them at least, are now proudly part of Russia.



mike2000 is back said:


> When there is a war there will always be collateral damage obviously, however doesn't invalidate the reason for the war.



By that logic what is Zelensky complaining about ?

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## mike2000 is back

Titanium100 said:


> Lukashenko warns of 3rd World War, as Belarus prepares to send troops​*The president denied that Belarus was taking part in the fighting, adding that no missiles were being fired from Belarusian territory • "Nuclear war is the end of everything"*​
> Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko warned that Western sanctions were pushing Russia towards a "third world war," as _The Washington Post_ reported that Belarus was preparing to send troops into Ukraine on Sunday.
> 
> 
> "In a situation like this, we should be aware that there are such sanctions. A great deal is being said about the banking sector. Gas, oil, SWIFT. It’s worse than war," said Lukashenko at a referendum on changing Belarus's constitution, according to the president's website. "Russia is being pushed towards a third world war. We should be very reserved and steer clear of it. Because nuclear war is the end of everything."
> 
> The Belarusian president stated that the retaliatory sanctions by Russia and Belarus would be very sensitive in order to ensure that they do not also impact them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lukashenko warns of 3rd World War, as Belarus prepares to send troops
> 
> 
> The president denied that Belarus was taking part in the fighting, adding that no missiles were being fired from Belarusian territory • "Nuclear war is the end of everything"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I recall mentioning exactly this months ago that if you force Russia or hunger them they will have no other choice but to declare much bigger war and imho Russia could reach that treeshold as soon as in few weeks time where Russia could start an operation against all NATO nations bordering them? You may ask why and when? Only when Russia reaches a certain point where they have nothing to lose


Lol even during ita peak power during Soviet times, Russia never attacked a single NATO country. To think Putin is silly enough to do it now is just wishful thinking on your part to be honest .


----------



## Khanate

*Josep Borrell, EU Foreign Affairs: We cannot block the reserves of the Russian Central Bank*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498075696891060224

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## mike2000 is back

jamahir said:


> 1. Russian governments stopped being commie in 1991.
> 
> 2. The Chechens, most of them at least, are proudly part of Russia.


Ahahaha I was sure you supported Russia's action in Chechnya(though you are now crying crocodile tears against Ukraine's government operation against Russian separatists groups ) . 
So you think Chechnyan's suddenly welcomed Russia and started loving Russia after being massacred brutally during one of the most vicious war since WWII right? Lol They had no choice, after being bombed and massacred indiscriminately, it was either they accepted Putins offer or they will be obliterated. They choose the former and I can't blame them to be honest(I would have done the same. Lol )

Whether Russia seized being commie or not is not the point. Do you supported Russias actions of trying to protect its territorial intergrity against separatists groups YES OR NO? LOL


----------



## Khanate

*FactCheck: This is a brave Palestinian girl*

*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497840712821329923*

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## thetutle

Titanium100 said:


> He will never allow this to happen as long as his alive. I am talking from a stragetic and security measure level as Finland is a major security concern in Kremlin.. He will not allow NATO to gain that large northern border which is the largest border Russia has with anyone on the western side and difficult to defend in a future war with NATO.. You can write this down and bet your house on it



He may not wish for this to happen. But Finland is a sovereign state and will make its own decisions. If you think Russia will decide who joins NATO, I fear you will be surprised quite soon.

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## Vergennes

lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498290289731067905


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> There are no need for that. That "3km" convoy was already bombed repeatedly, and suppressed by artillery. It's too deep behind Russian lines, but I believe losses there are severe.
> 
> Instead, there are *free* airstrike opportunities. This following screws strategic options with these small spear pushes, and destroys units with more certainty because they already got very, very extended, and gorillas/territorials may pick them off later at small cost, and grab their equipment.
> 
> After that, Ukrainians will need to find out weaknesses in Russian deployment, and use aviation against that.
> 
> I repeat, Kiyv area now is a fortress which soaks 1 BTG per day with ease, and Russians are afraid to do anything big there now. Moreover, local mobile defence, and Baraktars are already seemingly doing good at destroying flanking pushes.
> 
> Instead, something more daring, and unexpected can be done now. What about bombing Belo? I believe NATO got all Belo air defences mapped now.
> 
> Or, the they can thoroughly cleanup Kharkiv surround, push off Russian artillery, and unfold the front there again. I see a lot of artillery there, hide & seek urban battles in suburbs, but not much units capable of holding the line with serious armour/firepower.
> 
> South is a big question mark. I believe Russians have air defence from Crimea there now. NATO's eyes should know.
> 
> @jhungary I think it's playing into Ukrainian side to not to let the flow of battle to slowdown. Russians will not let them exploit their initial messups for long.
> 
> 
> View attachment 819547


As with my last post, It is quite clear form the get go for the Russian to lead a "North/South" charge and link up between Northern arm with the southern arm form Crimea .So I would have to say the the keys for Ukrainian defence is going to be to defend both Dnipro (in the south) and Kyiv (in the north)

The problem is, Russia as of now is already seriously behind. Current intel suggested a 96-120 hours delay. Objective that supposed to be taken on the first day is still in Ukrainian hand. Mariupol, which specifically were supposed to be deposed in the first minute of battle, still stay with Ukraine., Kyiv, a day 2 at most objective is still stand. Dnirpo are virtually untouched. Kharkiv is not yet fallen. There are even news that Antonov Airport are under assault by Ukrainian army. All these are the strategic objective, and they are not yet taken, in fact, the only "Major Milestone" for Russia is taken Berdiansk, a city of less than 100,000. That is not a good time table. 

So two things is going to happen. The war is going to have to speed up, which mean more Brutal Russia response, which in turn mean more resolve on Ukrainian resistance. And another thing is going to happen is Russia is going to pour more resource into Ukraine.

Now, the problem is, what people see the problem Russia is suffering is command and control problem and logistic problem and it is not going to solve itself just because you need to hurry up. In fact the entire system failed because they were in a hurry to begin with. So that have to be rethink. All these tanks that ran out of fuel cannot be happen again, and LOGPAK are going to be delivered into the right place on time. That will stress the entire campaign. 

On another thing, more unit got thrown into the fray will magnify the C&C problem and also the logistic problem. That would have to be an issue, how are you going to pipe in reinforcement? Send them to where they needed the most? That is THE problem.

Another issue is that Russia need to think about what happen after they defeated the Ukrainian Defence Force in a conventional battlefield. There are VERY HIGH chance that Ukrainian are going to wage an insurgency toward Russia. Which I can assure you whatever left of that Russian force is not going to be enough to deal with. You also need to think of how to contain such insurgency, now, traditional wisdom would suggest you need to get the entire country in control, and then squeeze the insurgency out. But Ukraine is a country that have 1/3 the population of Russia, I would say except for the Eastern Ukrainian, almost all of them are going to be hostile to the Russian. And I can't see any way Russia can conquer the entire Ukraine, which make Western Ukraine more important than Eastern Ukraine, because this is where it border Poland, Romania and Hungary, that entire region needed to be occupied, otherwise Western Ukraine would become enclave of Ukrainian insurgency activities. Which mean the entire troop deposition as of now need to shift West once Ukraine Defence Force is defeated. Do they even have time to do that? Unlike what we did back in Iraq, we enjoy a honeymoon period, and then half life set in, and the entire country turn on us. In this case, there are no half life, there are no honeymoon, the entire population of Ukraine is going to be hostile to Russian.

And finally, the economy sanction factor, unlike the other, this is one giant swoop. It basically destroy Russian economy and its banking system. And it will take them ages for China to restore it for Russia, on the other hand, would China want to? Because that would include a lot of financial backing, which at the current rate, mean backing a rouble that is currently down at the toilet. Effectively it would probably cheaper for Russia to adopt Yuan as official currency.

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## Titanium100

thetutle said:


> He may not wish for this to happen. But Finland is a sovereign state and will make its own decisions. If you think Russia will decide who joins NATO, I fear you will be surprised quite soon.



You will be in for a major surprise in few years time when the Russian tanks including the Belarussians, Wagner group, Chechens, Tatars, mercerneries, DPR, LPR rebels etc etc and the whole caravan rolls into Finland's cities

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## Khanate

*'Ukrainian first, African last'*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498281490718810116

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## Iron Shrappenel

beast89 said:


> ziolensky is releasing convicts with combat experience


What Europeans think it sounds like lol

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## Maarkhoor

Khanate said:


> *FactCheck: This is a brave Palestinian girl*
> 
> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497840712821329923*


This is Palestinian girl and soldiers from Israel.

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## Khanate

beast89 said:


> ziolensky is releasing convicts with combat experience





Is he taking notes from the Taliban??

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> and so on and I just happened to cross train with Heavy Weaponry, I can use a M2, M240B, Carl Gustav 84mm, AT-4, Javelin, Stinger and 120mm mortar. I know how to use TOW missile because my first MOS is 19A...



How good is the javelin in this type of situation? Can you reply take out a tank at 500m, 2km or 3km? in this terrain? Is this weapon a game changer for a professional insurgent army in this scenario? If you have say 3 launchers and 3 targets, can they target all 3 and take them out at the same time?

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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498314069345984517

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## NotSure

jhungary said:


> You do know truth are just going to go away because you refused to talk about it, right? And you are just living in your delusional world.


That is correct. The truth, facts on the ground currently established by russia, are not going away with all your cheap talk about "nato intel", weak russian military, bs about a russian timeline and so on.

At the first day the russian VDV had captured the Hostomel Airport as a bridgehead and now only in a half a weak all ukrainian big Towns are surrounded or even captured.

The effect will grow in the next days exponentially. Remember my words.

And on the other side we have the "civilised" anglosaxons, bombing Iraq 2003 into ruins, after >10 years of hard sanctions and constant bombing in the no fly zone. After the massive aggression in the beginning of the 90s. And they still needed *3 Weeks* to even reach Baghdad ...

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## Khanate

*Diplomacy with President Putin*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498318222961094656

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1 | Wow Wow:
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## nang2

jhungary said:


> As with my last post, It is quite clear form the get go for the Russian to lead a "North/South" charge and link up between Northern arm with the southern arm form Crimea .So I would have to say the the keys for Ukrainian defence is going to be to defend both Dnipro (in the south) and Kyiv (in the north)
> 
> The problem is, Russia as of now is already seriously behind. Current intel suggested a 96-120 hours delay. Objective that supposed to be taken on the first day is still in Ukrainian hand. Mariupol, which specifically were supposed to be deposed in the first minute of battle, still stay with Ukraine., Kyiv, a day 2 at most objective is still stand. Dnirpo are virtually untouched. Kharkiv is not yet fallen. There are even news that Antonov Airport are under assault by Ukrainian army. All these are the strategic objective, and they are not yet taken, in fact, the only "Major Milestone" for Russia is taken Berdiansk, a city of less than 100,000. That is not a good time table.
> 
> So two things is going to happen. The war is going to have to speed up, which mean more Brutal Russia response, which in turn mean more resolve on Ukrainian resistance. And another thing is going to happen is Russia is going to pour more resource into Ukraine.
> 
> Now, the problem is, what people see the problem Russia is suffering is command and control problem and logistic problem and it is not going to solve itself just because you need to hurry up. In fact the entire system failed because they were in a hurry to begin with. So that have to be rethink. All these tanks that ran out of fuel cannot be happen again, and LOGPAK are going to be delivered into the right place on time. That will stress the entire campaign.
> 
> On another thing, more unit got thrown into the fray will magnify the C&C problem and also the logistic problem. That would have to be an issue, how are you going to pipe in reinforcement? Send them to where they needed the most? That is THE problem.
> 
> Another issue is that Russia need to think about what happen after they defeated the Ukrainian Defence Force in a conventional battlefield. There are VERY HIGH chance that Ukrainian are going to wage an insurgency toward Russia. Which I can assure you whatever left of that Russian force is not going to be enough to deal with. You also need to think of how to contain such insurgency, now, traditional wisdom would suggest you need to get the entire country in control, and then squeeze the insurgency out. But Ukraine is a country that have 1/3 the population of Russia, I would say except for the Eastern Ukrainian, almost all of them are going to be hostile to the Russian. And I can't see any way Russia can conquer the entire Ukraine, which make Western Ukraine more important than Eastern Ukraine, because this is where it border Poland, Romania and Hungary, that entire region needed to be occupied, otherwise Western Ukraine would become enclave of Ukrainian insurgency activities. Which mean the entire troop deposition as of now need to shift West once Ukraine Defence Force is defeated. Do they even have time to do that? Unlike what we did back in Iraq, we enjoy a honeymoon period, and then half life set in, and the entire country turn on us. In this case, there are no half life, there are no honeymoon, the entire population of Ukraine is going to be hostile to Russian.
> 
> And finally, the economy sanction factor, unlike the other, this is one giant swoop. It basically destroy Russian economy and its banking system. And it will take them ages for China to restore it for Russia, on the other hand, would China want to? Because that would include a lot of financial backing, which at the current rate, mean backing a rouble that is currently down at the toilet. Effectively it would probably cheaper for Russia to adopt Yuan as official currency.


If I were Putin, I would leave the western Ukraine untouched. Take the eastern Ukraine and use Dnieper river as the border to divide the country. Ukrainians would still have a place to call their country, which is where most Ukrainian-speaking folks live anyway.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> How good is the javelin in this type of situation? Can you reply take out a tank at 500m, 2km or 3km? in this terrain? Is this weapon a game changer for a professional insurgent army in this scenario? If you have say 3 launchers and 3 targets, can they target all 3 and take them out at the same time?


The reported range for a Javelin missile is 2500m, but you are not going to hit that far, the optimal kill range is between 800 - 1000 meters.

Depends on how you use them and more importantly, how you hide them, it could be a devastated weapon if the enemy uses armor for COIN. But I don't think Russia is going to heavy on tank when they occupied Ukraine. More likely they will be staffed by light skin vehicle. if this is the case, IED is probably the weapon of choice.

You can engage 3 tanks if you have 3 operators using them at the same time, they are 1 launcher 1 missile weapon.

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## That Guy

Titanium100 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498314069345984517


It's not "west", mass reports tend to auto remove or ban. Not social media tend to have this feature. Meaning a bunch of trolls can easily do this.


----------



## Meengla

jhungary said:


> But Ukraine is a country that have 1/3 the population of Russia, I would say except for the Eastern Ukrainian, almost all of them are going to be hostile to the Russian. And I can't see any way Russia can conquer the entire Ukraine, which make Western Ukraine more important than Eastern Ukraine, because this is where it border Poland, Romania and Hungary, that entire region needed to be occupied, otherwise Western Ukraine would become enclave of Ukrainian insurgency activities



Yes, it is mind boggling why would Russia go beyond eastern Ukraine or maybe a tiny sliver in southern Ukraine. Unless we don't know something which Putin knows, the invasion sounds destined to a historic failure.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498322542498656257

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> If I were Putin, I would leave the western Ukraine untouched. Take the eastern Ukraine and use Dnieper river as the border to divide the country. Ukrainians would still have a place to call their country, which is where most Ukrainian-speaking folks live anyway.


It does not work that way.

Ukraine will raise an insurgency as long as Russia is occupying any part of Ukraine. Leaving Western Ukraine unguard would have been a big mistake. 

If they were big on ceding territories, we probably won't have this war to begin with.

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## Khanate

*Western Exceptionalism 😁


 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498316561442127872*

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## Titanium100

Khanate said:


> *Diplomacy with President Putin*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498318222961094656



I don't believe in a word of this.. Russia has gained almost NovoRossiya including almost 20% of Ukraine do you really think he will settle for only fuking Crimea being recognized unrealistic

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## jamahir

mike2000 is back said:


> Whether Russia seized being commie or not is not the point. Do you supported Russias actions of trying to protect its territorial intergrity against separatists groups YES OR NO? LOL



I will instead ask you, are the anti-Ukranian-government people of Donetsk and Luhansk supported by you when those regions were supported for independence by Russia the day before the war started ?



mike2000 is back said:


> Ahahaha I was sure you supported Russia's action in Chechnya(though you are now crying crocodile tears against Ukraine's government operation against Russian separatists groups ) .



AFAIK the Chechen wars were old wars that had stopped for the most part of the USSR's existence. I think the war sentiment got revived after the USSR's dissolution through influence by the India-origin Muslim movement the Tableeghi Jamaat. But all this I think is not within the scope of this thread's discussions.



Khanate said:


> *FactCheck: This is a brave Palestinian girl*
> 
> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497840712821329923*



"The media is presented out of context". LOL, what a bunch of excuse words by Twitter to say that the tweeter was telling a lie.

Also, brave of the Palestinian girl.


----------



## jhungary

Meengla said:


> Yes, it is mind boggling why would Russia go beyond eastern Ukraine or maybe a tiny sliver in southern Ukraine. Unless we don't know something which Putin knows, the invasion sounds destined to a historic failure.


The Russian need Ukrainian government to capitulate, you can only do it by taking Kyiv, and you cannot take Kyiv with a single strike across Belarus. You will get flanked by 3 flanks.

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## Khanate

*COVID and a nuclear war...*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498290121556336646

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> As with my last post, It is quite clear form the get go for the Russian to lead a "North/South" charge and link up between Northern arm with the southern arm form Crimea .So I would have to say the the keys for Ukrainian defence is going to be to defend both Dnipro (in the south) and Kyiv (in the north)
> 
> The problem is, Russia as of now is already seriously behind. Current intel suggested a 96-120 hours delay. Objective that supposed to be taken on the first day is still in Ukrainian hand. Mariupol, which specifically were supposed to be deposed in the first minute of battle, still stay with Ukraine., Kyiv, a day 2 at most objective is still stand. Dnirpo are virtually untouched. Kharkiv is not yet fallen. There are even news that Antonov Airport are under assault by Ukrainian army. All these are the strategic objective, and they are not yet taken, in fact, the only "Major Milestone" for Russia is taken Berdiansk, a city of less than 100,000. That is not a good time table.
> 
> So two things is going to happen. The war is going to have to speed up, which mean more Brutal Russia response, which in turn mean more resolve on Ukrainian resistance. And another thing is going to happen is Russia is going to pour more resource into Ukraine.
> 
> Now, the problem is, what people see the problem Russia is suffering is command and control problem and logistic problem and it is not going to solve itself just because you need to hurry up. In fact the entire system failed because they were in a hurry to begin with. So that have to be rethink. All these tanks that ran out of fuel cannot be happen again, and LOGPAK are going to be delivered into the right place on time. That will stress the entire campaign.
> 
> On another thing, more unit got thrown into the fray will magnify the C&C problem and also the logistic problem. That would have to be an issue, how are you going to pipe in reinforcement? Send them to where they needed the most? That is THE problem.
> 
> Another issue is that Russia need to think about what happen after they defeated the Ukrainian Defence Force in a conventional battlefield. There are VERY HIGH chance that Ukrainian are going to wage an insurgency toward Russia. Which I can assure you whatever left of that Russian force is not going to be enough to deal with. You also need to think of how to contain such insurgency, now, traditional wisdom would suggest you need to get the entire country in control, and then squeeze the insurgency out. But Ukraine is a country that have 1/3 the population of Russia, I would say except for the Eastern Ukrainian, almost all of them are going to be hostile to the Russian. And I can't see any way Russia can conquer the entire Ukraine, which make Western Ukraine more important than Eastern Ukraine, because this is where it border Poland, Romania and Hungary, that entire region needed to be occupied, otherwise Western Ukraine would become enclave of Ukrainian insurgency activities. Which mean the entire troop deposition as of now need to shift West once Ukraine Defence Force is defeated. Do they even have time to do that? Unlike what we did back in Iraq, we enjoy a honeymoon period, and then half life set in, and the entire country turn on us. In this case, there are no half life, there are no honeymoon, the entire population of Ukraine is going to be hostile to Russian.
> 
> And finally, the economy sanction factor, unlike the other, this is one giant swoop. It basically destroy Russian economy and its banking system. And it will take them ages for China to restore it for Russia, on the other hand, would China want to? Because that would include a lot of financial backing, which at the current rate, mean backing a rouble that is currently down at the toilet. Effectively it would probably cheaper for Russia to adopt Yuan as official currency.



From all of this I see an instant opportunity... if it will be the case.

If they will just "add more metaballs" on already congested, and bombed offensive lines in forests near Kiyv, they will get slaughtered under arty fire, and occasional airstrikes even more.

They will try to counter with bombings of their own, and here 30 Polish MiGs will be handy. If these 30 migs can solidly secure skies over the central landmass of the country, they will be able fo pick off Russians bombing raids.

Russians completely unfolded in the south, and their supply lines, and forces there are most stressed I believe. And there are just too many options for a cutoff

The Eastern front I believe would be the easiest target for Russians to overwhelm by classic soviet massive arty/armour/meatball push

All depends on actual intel, which we don't have

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> It does not work that way.
> 
> Ukraine will raise an insurgency as long as Russia is occupying any part of Ukraine. Leaving Western Ukraine unguard would have been a big mistake.
> 
> If they were big on ceding territories, we probably won't have this war to begin with.


They didn't seem to mind that much after Russia took over Crimea. Maybe they thought Crimea wasn't theirs to begin with. However, they may cede territories if they can trade them with NATO membership. I doubt NATO would let them in if they are in constant conflict with Russia.

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> The reported range for a Javelin missile is 2500m, but you are not going to hit that far, the optimal kill range is between 800 - 1000 meters.
> 
> Depends on how you use them and more importantly, how you hide them, it could be a devastated weapon if the enemy uses armor for COIN. But I don't think Russia is going to heavy on tank when they occupied Ukraine. More likely they will be staffed by light skin vehicle. if this is the case, IED is probably the weapon of choice.
> 
> You can engage 3 tanks if you have 3 operators using them at the same time, they are 1 launcher 1 missile weapon.


ok good to know. Thank you, I was just thinking 3 targets 800m away and 3 operators, will they get confused whose target belongs to whom. You dont want to hit the same target 3 times and then the surviving target blows you to hell. 

I just think motivated army that goes insurgent with 5,000 of these, and a few thousand stingers can really really hurt an occupying force. I mean this is a target rich environment. You hit a truck with a javelin you've taken out 10 or 15 troops potentially. 

It just seem like Russia is in trouble if NATO keeps arming the future insurgency.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498315967365066757

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## Khan vilatey

jhungary said:


> As with my last post, It is quite clear form the get go for the Russian to lead a "North/South" charge and link up between Northern arm with the southern arm form Crimea .So I would have to say the the keys for Ukrainian defence is going to be to defend both Dnipro (in the south) and Kyiv (in the north)
> 
> The problem is, Russia as of now is already seriously behind. Current intel suggested a 96-120 hours delay. Objective that supposed to be taken on the first day is still in Ukrainian hand. Mariupol, which specifically were supposed to be deposed in the first minute of battle, still stay with Ukraine., Kyiv, a day 2 at most objective is still stand. Dnirpo are virtually untouched. Kharkiv is not yet fallen. There are even news that Antonov Airport are under assault by Ukrainian army. All these are the strategic objective, and they are not yet taken, in fact, the only "Major Milestone" for Russia is taken Berdiansk, a city of less than 100,000. That is not a good time table.
> 
> So two things is going to happen. The war is going to have to speed up, which mean more Brutal Russia response, which in turn mean more resolve on Ukrainian resistance. And another thing is going to happen is Russia is going to pour more resource into Ukraine.
> 
> Now, the problem is, what people see the problem Russia is suffering is command and control problem and logistic problem and it is not going to solve itself just because you need to hurry up. In fact the entire system failed because they were in a hurry to begin with. So that have to be rethink. All these tanks that ran out of fuel cannot be happen again, and LOGPAK are going to be delivered into the right place on time. That will stress the entire campaign.
> 
> On another thing, more unit got thrown into the fray will magnify the C&C problem and also the logistic problem. That would have to be an issue, how are you going to pipe in reinforcement? Send them to where they needed the most? That is THE problem.
> 
> Another issue is that Russia need to think about what happen after they defeated the Ukrainian Defence Force in a conventional battlefield. There are VERY HIGH chance that Ukrainian are going to wage an insurgency toward Russia. Which I can assure you whatever left of that Russian force is not going to be enough to deal with. You also need to think of how to contain such insurgency, now, traditional wisdom would suggest you need to get the entire country in control, and then squeeze the insurgency out. But Ukraine is a country that have 1/3 the population of Russia, I would say except for the Eastern Ukrainian, almost all of them are going to be hostile to the Russian. And I can't see any way Russia can conquer the entire Ukraine, which make Western Ukraine more important than Eastern Ukraine, because this is where it border Poland, Romania and Hungary, that entire region needed to be occupied, otherwise Western Ukraine would become enclave of Ukrainian insurgency activities. Which mean the entire troop deposition as of now need to shift West once Ukraine Defence Force is defeated. Do they even have time to do that? Unlike what we did back in Iraq, we enjoy a honeymoon period, and then half life set in, and the entire country turn on us. In this case, there are no half life, there are no honeymoon, the entire population of Ukraine is going to be hostile to Russian.
> 
> And finally, the economy sanction factor, unlike the other, this is one giant swoop. It basically destroy Russian economy and its banking system. And it will take them ages for China to restore it for Russia, on the other hand, would China want to? Because that would include a lot of financial backing, which at the current rate, mean backing a rouble that is currently down at the toilet. Effectively it would probably cheaper for Russia to adopt Yuan as official currency.



I disagree, look at this video, it explains quiet well that the Russian advance is exactly on time…. The Russian seem to be avoiding civilian casualties for now and are using conscripts to test enemy strength.






Just to be sure that there is no doubt, I stand with Ukraine 🇺🇦 . This however does not mean we ignore the facts on the ground. I do agree there will be an insurgency after the illegal Russian occupation begins.

K

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## mike2000 is back

jamahir said:


> By that logic what is Zelensky complaining about



I NEVER said it was wrong about Zelensky or any leader for that matter complaining. Obviously they will do so, since its also suite their interests to draw more world support and sympathy for the cause. Civilian casualties are a given in a war. So no question there. Its normal. 
However, as observers we should be able to distinguish between this 2 impartially. So my main point here is not about Ukraine's civilian casualties by Russian troops and mercenaries but about the act of the invasion itself. Just like I'm sure you will be against China if they ever used the excuse of protecting ethnic northeast Asians in India northeast from Indian oppression and descrimanition to invade India. Lol 😆 many countries and powers can also use that excuse for invasions. If the world normalises that then more than half the world will be at war with each other lol

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## Muhammed45

The countries that have closed their airspace to Russia so far. 

*France, Spain, England, Scotland, Germany, Italy, Norway, Denmark, Slovenia, Letonia, Lithuania, Estonia, Bulgaria, Romania, Greece, Sweden and Finland. *

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## Khanate

*Liz Truss was "deaf" and "unprepared", **threatened** nuclear war...*

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said "unacceptable" remarks were made about possible "clashes" between Nato and Moscow over Russia's attack on Ukraine.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498283773808496645

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## Vergennes

What has Putin achieved so far ;

Ukraine is resisting against the Russian army,its invasion currently a disaster
The entire world is teaming up against Russia
An even more united Europe
Sanctions coming from everywhere,the freefall of the ruble and the russian economy
Ukraine arrives at peace talks almost in a position of strength

Mark my words,the oligarchs will soon team up against Putin and his clique because of all the money they lost.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498315847621828610

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498320303067385860

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## thetutle

Apollon said:


> Russias largest bank Sberbank is about to collapse in Europe. ECB just froze them


Lol I have relatives in Bosnia that have money in this bank. I told them to take it out. They trusted a Russian bank. I mean lol. 

Their deposit is guaranteed by Bosnian central bank up to 15,000 Euro, but goodness me. How daft do you have to be to put money in a Russian bank.

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## kingQamaR

Paul2 said:


> From all of this I see an instant opportunity... if it will be the case.
> 
> If they will just "add more metaballs" on already congested, and bombed offensive lines in forests near Kiyv, they will get slaughtered under arty fire, and occasional airstrikes even more.
> 
> They will try to counter with bombings of their own, and here 30 Polish MiGs will be handy. If these 30 migs can solidly secure skies over the central landmass of the country, they will be able fo pick off Russians bombing raids.
> 
> Russians completely unfolded in the south, and their supply lines, and forces there are most stressed I believe. And there are just too many options for a cutoff
> 
> The Eastern front I believe would be the easiest target for Russians to overwhelm by classic soviet massive arty/armour/meatball push
> 
> All depends on actual intel, which we don't have



If he really believed that he could have "overrun" a country as huge as Ukraine in a day or two, he must have been more delusional than anyone could have imagined. The West always knew that Ukraine would eventually lose a conventional war against su perior Russian forces, but they also knew that it would take time for Russia to complete an in vasion, even with little initial resistance by Ukraine. And they knew that they could turn Ukraine into a new Afghanstan for Russia by supporting the resistance and getting Russia stuck in a conflict that it could not win in the long run. So yes, Ukraine's bravery and resistance have made the blunder even more obvious in the short term, but long term, this development was inevitable. Long term, the reaction of the West would have been the same, even if the sanctions may have been implemented slower


----------



## Titanium100

Khanate said:


> *COVID and a nuclear war...*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498290121556336646



Fema is hilarious. You forgot the preppers in the US they are going bunkers and perhaps what they have been preparing for in a lifetime


----------



## jhungary

NotSure said:


> That is correct. The truth, facts on the ground currently established by russia, are not going away with all your cheap talk about "nato intel", weak russian military, bs about a russian timeline and so on.
> 
> At the first day the russian VDV had captured the Hostomel Airport as a bridgehead and now only in a half a weak all ukrainian big Towns are surrounded or even captured.
> 
> The effect will grow in the next days exponentially. Remember my words.
> 
> And on the other side we have the "civilised" anglosaxons, bombing Iraq 2003 into ruins, after >10 years of hard sanctions and constant bombing in the no fly zone. After the massive aggression in the beginning of the 90s. And they still needed *3 Weeks* to even reach Baghdad ...


Oh well, if you think Russia is doing a "Superb" job then well, you go believe that.

Also we took city on the way to our objective within that 3 week, and Baghdad is not 140 km from the point of invasion, like Kyiv.

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## mike2000 is back

jamahir said:


> I will instead ask you, are the anti-Ukranian-government people of Donetsk and Luhansk supported by you when those regions were supported for independence by Russia the day before the war started ?


I don't get your question. Britain doesn't recognise Russia illegal annexationnof crimea from a sovereign country, neither do we recognise Russia covert support for separatists in Eastern Ukraine. We consider that as an internal part of Ukraine just like the whole war does. RUSSIA is the only country that recognises and supports those separatists States , not even China or India recognises them. Lol So.i don't get your point.

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## Zibago

Mrc said:


> Pakistan must operationalize several hundred of these Turkish drones of not already done so...


We have good relations with Turkey from Azerbaijan to Ukraine this drone has made its mark


----------



## thetutle

That Guy said:


> Russia also has the Russian Orthodox Army, which is a far-right fascist group. Wagner Group is also fascist.
> 
> Does that mean Russia deserves to be invaded



hmmm, yeah kind of.

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## pakpride00090

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498315847621828610
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498320303067385860



This post alone shows how mellow and forgiving russian army is ... If they truly were waging a war like the Americans and europeans did on Middle east then all of these civilains would have been dead. 

Russians are portrayed as savages for western Media.

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## dBSPL

Turkish rap performance from a Russian soldier (conflict edition)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498298617790189574

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## mike2000 is back

jamahir said:


> AFAIK the Chechen wars were old wars that had stopped for the most part of the USSR's existence. I think the war sentiment got revived after the USSR's dissolution through influence by the India-origin Muslim movement the Tableeghi Jamaat. But all this I think is not within the scope of this thread's discussions.


I didn't ask you whether the Chechens wars were old or not. I asked you if you also condemn Russia's action against Chechen separatists just like you condemn Ukraine's government action against russia backed separatists in Eastern Ukraine. You keep dodging the question bro. Lol If you were fair and impartial as you said, you will have obviously had no issues condemning both sides at least . However its obvious that you have a huge bias for Russia giving that they are after all the GOD FATHER of communism(an ideology which I know is very dear to you. Lol) albeit not the case anymore . Moreover, Russia supports various separatists groups in many countries in its neighbourhood(like in Georgia, Moldova etc), not just in Ukraine. Do you also support that policy of theirs ? Lol 😆


----------



## PakAlp

Titanium100 said:


> I don't believe in a word of this.. Russia has gained almost NovoRossiya including almost 20% of Ukraine do you really think he will settle for only fuking Crimea being recognized unrealistic



Looks a decent plan. If you add Kiev and the Northern surrounding part then its game over for Ukraine. Yes Ukraine may start insurgency but the Novorossiya Republic will deal with the future Ukraine.


----------



## Zibago

Titanium100 said:


> You will be in for a major surprise in few years time when the Russian tanks including the Belarussians, Wagner group, Chechens, Tatars, mercerneries, DPR, LPR rebels etc etc and the whole caravan rolls into Finland's cities


Not happening

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## RescueRanger

Khanate said:


> *Western Exceptionalism 😁
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498316561442127872*

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498326439380365314

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## Zibago

nang2 said:


> If I were Putin, I would leave the western Ukraine untouched. Take the eastern Ukraine and use Dnieper river as the border to divide the country. Ukrainians would still have a place to call their country, which is where most Ukrainian-speaking folks live anyway.


You make more sense than however is guiding Putin


----------



## RescueRanger

Zibago said:


> Not happening


Let the poor lamb dream.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498293986087387139

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498328035317190656


----------



## Zibago

pakpride00090 said:


> Russians are portrayed as savages for western Media.


Come on man they unleashed brutality in Syria

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## Areesh

Russian have shown poor performance. Disappointing to be honest

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## Zibago

RescueRanger said:


> Let the poor lamb dream.


We are not playing COD here some people are completely delusional but again there was a time I too was like this


----------



## Khanate

*Press freedom under threat (RT banned)*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498324900024573957

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## Primus

Areesh said:


> Russian have shown poor performance. Disappointing to be honest


To be honest Ukraine is acting like India with its immense propaganda campaign and claims. 

One thing for sure regarding this war is the truth is officially dead. 

Guess we will have to wait a year after the war to see the actual combat casualties of this war.

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## pakpride00090

Zibago said:


> Come on man they unleashed brutality in Syria



Invited by none other than the rules of Syria (Shias) to bomb Sunni freedom fighters. 

Most of the support was via air , not boots on ground.

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## Titanium100

Zibago said:


> Not happening



Oright.. Just like people thought Georgia was not gonna happen or Ukraine for the 2nd time or perhaps even Moldova.. Finland will not be as hard as Ukraine and it will take place.. Never doubt Putin at this point


----------



## Zibago

What the fluster cuck

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498326064661078028


Titanium100 said:


> Oright.. Just like people thought Georgia was not gonna happen or Ukraine for the 2nd time or perhaps even Moldova.. Finland will not be as hard as Ukraine and it will take place


Georgia is the size of Gilgit Baltistan its tiny with a small population

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## dBSPL

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498315967365066757
> View attachment 819558



"The location of this incident is roughly 45-50km from the Ukraine-Belarus border. Suppose the Buk system was inactive, its staff was asleep, etc."

"Russia dispatched two battalions of S-400s to Belarus in January. If these were established in the capital Minsk, the bird flight between Minsk and Kyiv around 200 km."


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498311418608865285


----------



## NotSure

jhungary said:


> Oh well, if you think Russia is doing a "Superb" job then well, you go believe that.
> 
> Also we took city on the way to our objective within that 3 week, and Baghdad is not 140 km from the point of invasion, like Kyiv.


I never used the term superb or so. In wartime not all things go as planned.

And yes, a word about "the plan": You and me know a shit about the *exact *russian plan. The russian timeline and so on. We can only guess and speculate.

Do yourself a favor and stop using nato propaganda for a full retard "analysis" about russias capabilitys and so on. This is not a professional behavrior, it is the behavrior of a cheap propaganda chicken.

In Germany we have a saying: Ein Mann, ein Wort ...

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## Titanium100

pakpride00090 said:


> Most of the support was via air , not boots on ground.



Alawites are not shia or muslim in that matter.. Yes Russia had approx 50k forces on the ground as the SAA was useless

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## thetutle

NotSure said:


> In theory they can do it and starting another wave of escalation. And this is the reason, the anglo saxons need to be kicked out of continental europe.
> 
> We need a de-anglonisation in europe and then in the whole world. Means kicking people like you out.



There are about 30 million Saxons living in Germany. Where would you tell them to go?


----------



## Titanium100

Zibago said:


> What the fluster cuck
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498326064661078028
> 
> Georgia is the size of Gilgit Baltistan its tiny with a small population



Finland has less population but it is just a huge land. It will not be even as nearly as tough as it is to take Mariupol


----------



## Khanate

*Russia's UN ambassador at the Emergency Special Session*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498327744882831362

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498295044377395207

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## jamal18

FuturePAF said:


> The 300 billion euro “Global Gateway” development plan to compete against the BRI is probably going to take a big hit.



Please explain.


----------



## NotSure

thetutle said:


> There are about 30 million Saxons living in Germany. Where would you tell them to go?


Apples, oranges ... To you.


----------



## dBSPL

Hungary will not send troops or weapons to Ukraine and will not allow the passage of weapons into Ukraine from its territory.

Hungarian Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto

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## Khanate

Zibago said:


> What the fluster cuck
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498326064661078028
> 
> Georgia is the size of Gilgit Baltistan its tiny with a small population




Tactics from Syria


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498317919956045826


----------



## jhungary

Khan vilatey said:


> I disagree, look at this video, it explains quiet well that the Russian advance is exactly on time…. The Russian seem to be avoiding civilian casualties for now and are using conscripts to test enemy strength.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just to be sure that there is no doubt, I stand with Ukraine 🇺🇦 . This however does not mean we ignore the facts on the ground. I do agree there will be an insurgency after the illegal Russian occupation begins.
> 
> K


Well, I just wasted 20 minutes on that video.

I don't know who that guy is, but he actually did not say Russian advance is on time, he is saying Russian advance is along with the speed of their logistic. But what he did not tell you that in this case, the first wave of the enemy is always positioned forward to your supply line, it's very straight forward because you would not want to bring your entire first LOGPAK into battle. It would be fun if they got destroyed.

What you do is you leave your "Wagon Train" behind the main column, and spearhead with that column, and then bring up the rear guard, that's why you have 7 days of supply to go with your first wave, because that is the time you need for your supply column catch up. So by "going as much as the supplies go" it mean you are behind schedule, simply because your first resupply should not be anytime before the 7 days.

Objective such as Kyiv and Mariupol should not need to wait for supply to attack by the way, they are virtually next to the staging area. 

Here are a better assessment of the current situation in Ukraine by a Professor in Defence Study Michael Clarke

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## pakpride00090

Titanium100 said:


> Alawites are not shia or muslim in that matter.. Yes Russia had approx 50k forces on the ground as the SAA was useless


They fall in Shia category.

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## Titanium100

dBSPL said:


> Hungary will not send troops or weapons to Ukraine and will not allow the passage of weapons into Ukraine from its territory.
> 
> Hungarian Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto



Troops as in volunteers? correct? This leader has been a rebel inside EU but he has no idea that they can actully regime change his azz. He takes the Westernes as pacifists but they are very dangerous don't take their democracy and stuff like that for granted because it is all Bullshit.. His just a fiefdom within there territories


----------



## pakpride00090

thetutle said:


> There are about 30 million Saxons living in Germany. Where would you tell them to go?



If Putin doesn't nuke all of you out of existence , demographic change over few decades will change that. Your TFR is below replacement level.


----------



## Ali_Baba

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60542877





> UK issues more sanctions on Russian banks and shipping​Back in the UK's House of Commons, and Foreign Secretary Liz Truss says she is imposing a "full asset freeze" on three more banks, including "Russia's national development bank", as she tells MPs she is "determined to go much, much further" in taking action against Russia.
> She says "the UK and our allies will have to undergo some economic hardship as a result of our sanctions" but "our hardships are nothing compared to those endured by the people of Ukraine".
> Meanwhile, *the UK has also told ports not to provide access to any Russian-flagged, Russian-registered, Russian-owned or Russian-controlled ships, ahead of new legislation coming into effect."*


​

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## Titanium100

pakpride00090 said:


> They fall in


There Ulema don't recognize them as Muslim because they don't meet the criteria


----------



## Khanate

*"Mr. President, are you worried about nuclear war?" *


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498323440985595915

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498273054413271044


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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> ok good to know. Thank you, I was just thinking 3 targets 800m away and 3 operators, will they get confused whose target belongs to whom. You dont want to hit the same target 3 times and then the surviving target blows you to hell.
> 
> I just think motivated army that goes insurgent with 5,000 of these, and a few thousand stingers can really really hurt an occupying force. I mean this is a target rich environment. You hit a truck with a javelin you've taken out 10 or 15 troops potentially.
> 
> It just seem like Russia is in trouble if NATO keeps arming the future insurgency.



Each launcher set have their own tracking device and laser designator. what you do for multiple target is you swtich on your laser det and "paint" the target, the other guys on the other Javelin would be able to see your paint and he will go shoot something else, usually if you are in a team, you use your laser det and sound out the target before you shoot. 

And I would say if the Russia are armor heavy, then yes, but if they are using soft skin vehicle, then you probably better off using IED, because they are cheaper. It does not worth to kill a truck with a $170,000 Javelin Missile, Tank or Chopper sure, anything else, you probably better off using ID.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498305596709163014

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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> They didn't seem to mind that much after Russia took over Crimea. Maybe they thought Crimea wasn't theirs to begin with. However, they may cede territories if they can trade them with NATO membership. I doubt NATO would let them in if they are in constant conflict with Russia.


I don't know, I am not Ukrainian. Think only them can tell you which part of their country they are willing to cede.

But if this was me, I will go all the way, Russia is not really in a position to do anything if they are raising an insurgency, and with the West backing, why not?

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## Titanium100

Speaking to Sky News on Sunday, Truss said that _“if we don't stop Putin in Ukraine, we are going to see others under threat: the Baltics, Poland, Moldova, and it could end up in a conflict with NATO._


----------



## ESAx

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498322542498656257



He speak Russian and He says well done Turks, they helps us , thanks them for TB2 Armed Drones


----------



## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498334235496701955


----------



## Inception-06

After so many Members writing here the ultimativ bullshit.

I take the right to pick up some rational lessons for my friends @Zarvan as you see it’s not the equipment which decides battfield victory but hard training, discipline and drills to handle and maintain the military equipment, the human and machine factor which I described in the Pakistani mechanise forces thread.

@jhungary I would appreciate your comments regarding Russian, surveillance and intelligence units on the battlefield. And of course if you would loose a word about the Pakistani and Indian combine warfare capability’s compared to the actual conflict, I know I am asking to
Much. But maybe.

@Desert Fox 1 hard lesson’s to
Learn for any military which have neglected logistical arm of their military. After seeing this war, the Indian combined warfare is a useless compared to the Pakistani. India will be never capable enough to strike deep inside Pakistan, conquering and holding Pakistani territory is impossible. The Pakistani Military will disassemble the Indian armour and mechanised forces into metal scrap.

On the other side, Pakistani forces have to check their capabilities regarding live surveillance and intelligence collection on the battlefield. Which is done through special surveillance troops on foot and mobile on jeeps, through Radars, through UAV, through air ESINT. But key to success are UAV and ground surveillance units. As we can see what the Russians have totally missed and neglected during the initial war starting phase, now they have lost the opportunity of the battle. What ever the Russians will try, it won’t work, best for them is to retreat or ask for ceasefire.

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## Khanate

*Shireen Mazari, Pakistan's human rights minister on Indian-**occupied** Kashmir*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498332067817570310

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## mike2000 is back

thetutle said:


> He may not wish for this to happen. But Finland is a sovereign state and will make its own decisions. If you think Russia will decide who joins NATO, I fear you will be surprised quite soon.


Im sure he thinks Russia will also invade Finland if Finland decides to join NATO 🤣


----------



## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498334087953612801


----------



## kingQamaR

Muhammed45 said:


> The countries that have closed their airspace to Russia so far.
> 
> *France, Spain, England, Scotland, Germany, Italy, Norway, Denmark, Slovenia, Letonia, Lithuania, Estonia, Bulgaria, Romania, Greece, Sweden and Finland. *



Entire EU air space snd markets now shut


----------



## monitor

Ukraine's president Zelensky signs EU membership application at a desk with indoor barricades behind him.

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## Titanium100

mike2000 is back said:


> Im sure he thinks Russia will also invade Finland if Finland decides to join NATO 🤣



Whether they threaten to join NATO or not he will invade Finland down the line....

I was talking about this war on here since way back in October and making war threads for it because I knew it was gonna happen but not many people believed in or thought it was gonna happen as people just ignored it and the samething now Finland is a no brainer it will happen


----------



## nang2

jhungary said:


> I don't know, I am not Ukrainian. Think only them can tell you which part of their country they are willing to cede.
> 
> But if this was me, I will go all the way, Russia is not really in a position to do anything if they are raising an insurgency, and with the West backing, why not?


Going all the way is probably what Americans prefer, which is backed by the enormous military and economic strength. For other countries, they may not be able to afford it. For example, China was in much worse shape when it attacked Vietnam. The initial ground invasion was probably much less successful. So, China didn't go all the way. It went in, wreaked havoc and left within one month. For Putin, leaving without much to show for would be a no deal. But I doubt he could swallow the whole Ukraine.

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> And I would say if the Russia are armor heavy, then yes, but if they are using soft skin vehicle, then you probably better off using IED, because they are cheaper. It does not worth to kill a truck with a $170,000 Javelin Missile, Tank or Chopper sure, anything else, you probably better off using ID.


hmmmm, Javelin is free. paid for by US and EU taxpayers, its fire and forget. I'd be using javelin. 

Not gonna risk my life placing an IED and keeping lookout. hoping it will go off. 

Once you've placed your IR laser on a target, wont the Russian see able to see that laser, surely they will have some sort of device that will detect this either in the air or nearby. Or even a guy on top of truck looking with a device that has IR spectrum capabilities, Surely they would have to to avid getting decimated by these things.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Ali_Baba said:


> but .. EU Citizens can go anywhere they want except for Russia and only difference is some extra time/cost.
> 
> Russian citzens cannot go anywhere in the western world right now - EU / USA etc..
> 
> Hurts the Russians alot more...



This is not only a war between Russia and Ukraine; this is a war between Russia and western (Freemasonry) world. So why would a Russian citizens go to countries who are at with their country? It makes no sense.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> From all of this I see an instant opportunity... if it will be the case.
> 
> If they will just "add more metaballs" on already congested, and bombed offensive lines in forests near Kiyv, they will get slaughtered under arty fire, and occasional airstrikes even more.
> 
> They will try to counter with bombings of their own, and here 30 Polish MiGs will be handy. If these 30 migs can solidly secure skies over the central landmass of the country, they will be able fo pick off Russians bombing raids.
> 
> Russians completely unfolded in the south, and their supply lines, and forces there are most stressed I believe. And there are just too many options for a cutoff
> 
> The Eastern front I believe would be the easiest target for Russians to overwhelm by classic soviet massive arty/armour/meatball push
> 
> All depends on actual intel, which we don't have


That is the problem, Russia still has not achieve total air superiority, and it would be risky to stretch our supply line if you still allow Ukrainian to fly either UCAV or Fighter. 

And I don't think they will send those troop in, much rather just reground the troop they are already deployed, unless really number is an issue, I will not send more troop into battle until I know I can handle it.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> hmmmm, Javelin is free. paid for by US and EU taxpayers, its fire and forget. I'd be using javelin.
> 
> Not gonna risk my life placing an IED and keeping lookout. hoping it will go off.
> 
> Once you've placed your IR laser on a target, wont the Russian see able to see that laser, surely they will have some sort of device that will detect this either in the air or nearby. Or even a guy on top of truck looking with a device that has IR spectrum capabilities, Surely they would have to to avid getting decimated by these things.


lol, as an American, I am not about to preach how to waste our tax money....

Anyway, you don't turn it on and leave it on, you flick it on and then off. They probably can see it if they are using NVG. But probably even if they know, it would be too late to react, you probably get 3 to 4 second to react after you are painted.

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## QWECXZ

An Iranian football team in the Premier League wear T-shirts to support Ukraine:





​Ridiculous move if you ask me.

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## Joe Shearer

kingQamaR said:


> Its not a mad world. Its a world inhabited by a majority of decent and brave people but inhabited by a few mad leaders and thier followers.


What chokes your throat and prevents you from saying the same thing about India and Indians? Because that is what it is. 36% of the electorate voted for Modi and his party, NOT anything more (yes, this is bad, but not as bad as some make it out to be). Over the last few years, that faction has not won a single state election; the few new governments it has formed were founded on causing elected reps to defect with the lure of huge sums of money - really huge.

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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> Going all the way is probably what Americans prefer, which is backed by the enormous military and economic strength. For other countries, they may not be able to afford it. For example, China was in much worse shape when it attacked Vietnam. The initial ground invasion was probably much less successful. So, China didn't go all the way. It went in, wreaked havoc and left within one month. For Putin, leaving without much to show for would be a no deal. But I doubt he could swallow the whole Ukraine.


Well, aren't the US and EU already said they will finance Ukrainian military? Or did I heard it wrong?

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## RescueRanger

Khanate said:


> *Press freedom under threat (RT banned)*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498324900024573957


The way I see it and I may be a crazy old goat for thinking this, but the strategy is to forestall and possibility for Russia to resist pressures in the interim, the best way to do this is to target the finances of the country which has been done very effectively. Russia is bleeding just over 20 Billion USD per day on this misadventure and it has started to hurt. 



https://www.rt.com/business/550829-central-bank-steps-up-ruble/



The sanctions coupled with cessation or suspension of diplomatic ties, restrictions on movement for high net worth citizens with links to the Kremlin are having the desired result, in between all this what you are also seeing are "symbolic" or virtue signaling actions such as removal of Russian vodka from US shelves, blocking Russian social and digital media dissemination/access and indirect pressure on the citizenry of the country. 









The end game here is obvious, create a buffer to the east to deal with the "frozen conflicts" along the V4 countries, Ukraine will act as a buttress against human traffic control and act as the regional doorstop preventing Russian ambitions in the Crimea and Slavic nations. By presenting a united front, the EU get to breathe in life into what was increasingly seen as a lumbering disunified behemoth teetering on its last legs above the chasm of fiscal and political crisis. 

EU especially Germany will seek to end dependency on Russian natural gas and oil in the interim, this also sends a strong message to other producers of oil. In the long run by forestalling the Russian advance and through a very meticulously refined disinformation campaign reduce all support for the Russian state and especially Putin by presenting images of a failed operation, captured or dead Russian soldiers and a graveyard of Russian military hardware essentially demoralizing citizens and supports and emasculating the Russian strong man image globally. 

^ for more on this visit : https://200rf.com/ 

The combined effect of loss of income, economic collapse, restriction on movement, global condemnation, loss of privileges previously enjoyed by the upper echelons of the Kremlin and their cronies will have a trickle down effect on the people, the aim will be to keep squeezing the vice until the Russians will be forced to come back to the negotiation table and the terms will be those set by the west. 

*TLDR: Generally if history has taught us anything it is that sanctions often go hand in hand with regime change. *

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## Khanate

monitor said:


> Ukraine's president Zelensky signs EU membership application at a desk with indoor barricades behind him.




NATO application when?


----------



## nang2

jhungary said:


> Well, aren't the US and EU already said they will finance Ukrainian military? Or did I heard it wrong?


Ah, I misunderstood. Apology.


----------



## Daylamite Warrior

Titanium100 said:


> Alawites are not shia or muslim in that matter.. Yes Russia had approx 50k forces on the ground as the SAA was useless


Regardless, Russia was there fighting ISIS while US was arming them and sitting back. Unless you support ISIS...

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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498338480782516224

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> you probably get 3 to 4 second to react after you are painted.


what a great weapon. they should rename in "freedom missile".


----------



## ziaulislam

Titanium100 said:


> I think the Russians are gonna take everything on the Eastern of the Dniper river plus some more including Kyiv.
> 
> This is my roughly estimation based on the classical Soviet divisions of Ukraine with MaloRossiya and NovoRossiya being annexed or taken by Russia who will create two new countries out of these two territories likely governed by LPR and DPR leaders each getting his own country.. Putin is creating two Belarus out of Ukraine and leave the remanants of Ukraine on the western part in line with historical lines or somewhat close to it. I think Russia will give this new Ukrainian state access to the Black sea on the beneath close to Romania and Moldava section so that they can have their own ports.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. descalation forces will have to be stationed on the Ukrainian side post war or let me put it this way post first round of fighting. Zelenskyy and co including the rebels will across over to the new Ukrainian held areas.. But a peacekeeping force is needed to be put in between the new Malorossiya and Ukraine borders. Russia doesn't trust US or UK anywhere near them hence it has to be someone Russia can trust.
> 
> 2. France and Turkey can deploy each 2500 peacekeeping force along the new line and Russia could consider them both neutral in a sense and it has worked with them in the past alot.


No 
Plan seems to be toppling ukrain govt
Or asking for no NATO grantees
And ofocurse the two rebel countries out of it


----------



## jhungary

NotSure said:


> I never used the term superb or so. In wartime not all thing go as planned.
> 
> And yes, a word about "the plan": You and me now a shit about the *exact *russian plan. The russian timeline and so on. We can only guess and speculate.
> 
> Do yourself a favor and stop using nato propaganda for a full retard "analysis" about russias capabilitys and so on. This is not a professional behavrior, it is the behavrior of a cheap propaganda chicken.
> 
> In Germany we have a saying: Ein Mann, ein Wort ...


Oh well, then I guess we should not have said anything, no one is allow to say anything, no commentary. Because either it "What you had approved" or it is "Retard analysis".

Well, I am more than gladly if you can show me what I said was wrong, other than just telling me "you analysis is retarded and shut up", at least that way you did not look like an ***

In America, we have a saying "You Shut Up!!"






And maybe if you joined up and serve sometime in a war, maybe then, we can talk. But now.

"YOU SHUT UP!!!" lol

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## RescueRanger

Khanate said:


> NATO application when?


Its more of a symbolic statement and not an Application, eventually in time Ukraine will join the EU, this is more about "Optics" or as we like to call it topi-drama.

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## Invicta

Ali_Baba said:


> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60542877
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​


Liz Truss the new legend, who would have thought a punny woman can rile up the supreme Macho Putin.

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## kingQamaR

I wish I knew how the majority of Russians are feeling about this war. It's hard to believe they support k:lling their Slavic brothers and sisters.


----------



## pakpride00090

kingQamaR said:


> I wish I knew how the majority of Russians are feeling about this war. It's hard to believe they support k:lling their Slavic brothers and sisters.



If muslims had any brain , they would have supported both sides via disinformation and other tactics in cyberspace. The more these white people fight each other , the better it is for muslim world. We should have added more fuel to the fire.

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## Oublious

the legend is back....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498327518960664587

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498341491831451659


----------



## kingQamaR

Ukraine vetoed many times what India put on the table. In the UN,

1971 war Russia sided with India. Russia has supported india from day one. So it's not surprising it abstained. So why are there so many Pakistanis bots on here as die hard Russian supporters and there leader putin.

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## Ali_Baba

Invicta said:


> Liz Truss the new legend, who would have thought a punny woman can rile up the supreme Macho Putin.



lol - she gave them a good kicking today in parliment just now with more sanctions... give the ruskies something real to get upset about !!!



> UK issues more sanctions on Russian banks and shipping​Back in the UK's House of Commons, and Foreign Secretary Liz Truss says she is *imposing a "full asset freeze" on three more banks, *including "Russia's national development bank", as she tells MPs she is "determined to go much, much further" in taking action against Russia.
> She says "the UK and our allies will have to undergo some economic hardship as a result of our sanctions" but "our hardships are nothing compared to those endured by the people of Ukraine".
> Meanwhile, the UK has also told ports not to provide access to any Russian-flagged, Russian-registered, Russian-owned or Russian-controlled ships, ahead of new legislation coming into effect.





https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60542877

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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498342613853822981


----------



## Daylamite Warrior

Titanium100 said:


> Nah.. They were there to fight a civilian uprising in the midst of arab spring but all in all that is an off-topic as things have now settled into 3 defacto countries in Syria no need to discuss it further and concentrate on this topic..
> 
> Besides all these EU are dead scared whereas Turkey actully made a move to block Russia from harming the Syrians now that is a move I dare anyone to repeat and especially from the EU on behalf of Ukraine


Listening to you deny that ISIS was in Syria just shows that I'm not talking to someone who cares about facts. Turkey was seen giving arms and tending the ISIS wounded, then they created a buffer zone after they realised they were getting it from both US/Kurdish side and Russian/Assad side. Now all they are doing is occupying land which isnt theirs, training Jihadis, while getting their drones blown out the sky by Russians. Turkey was part of the Timber Sycamore Program which brought ISIS into existence. 

Russia and Soleimani came in and stopped a US backed terrorist state forming. Western media foamed at the mouth when they saw Russia fighting ISIS. And they are again on the right side of history in this conflict. Why is it when Turks invade their neighbours it is fine, but Russia does it, it's bad.

Even Turkey doesn't have the balls to step in Ukraine. Remember Turkey invoked article 5 against Russia and was laughed at by all of Nato.

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## QWECXZ

Putin's official conditions for peace with Ukraine:

1. Ukraine must accept the annexation of the Crimea and recognize it as Russian territory
2. Neo-Nazis must leave Ukraine
3. Ukraine must accept neutrality


----------



## Ali_Baba

Oublious said:


> the legend is back....
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498327518960664587



Has Turkey provided any attrition replacements? Could they supply the Americans/Brits who will "happily" forward them to Ukraine ?


----------



## Invicta

Ali_Baba said:


> lol - she gave them a good kicking today in parliment just now with more sanctions... give the ruskies something real to get upset about !!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60542877


She has got balls, it was a good speech until David Lammy stood to speak, can't stand that guy.
Lizz and Kwasi Kwarteng have done an amazing job so far, Kwasi very instrumental in lobbying BP to offload their shares in Rosneft.

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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498342973330935810


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498341119905652740

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498342935007481858

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## Ali_Baba

QWECXZ said:


> 2. Neo-Nazis must leave Ukraine



I dont understand this statement ? What Neo-Nazis ???? Seriously ??

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## Invicta

kingQamaR said:


> Ukraine vetoed many times what India put on the table. In the UN,
> 
> 1971 war Russia sided with India. Russia has supported india from day one. So it's not surprising it abstained. So why are there so many Pakistanis bots on here as die hard Russian supporters and there leader putin.


Same question is making me wonder what's the benifit to them, if the world status quo was other way round it will be more miserable place to live in.

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## Daylamite Warrior

kingQamaR said:


> I wish I knew how the majority of Russians are feeling about this war. It's hard to believe they support k:lling their Slavic brothers and sisters.


Well theyve witnessed 8 years of their own kind being killed by so called slavic brothers. Also Slavic people are very fractuous and often get into racist arguments with each other. It's a myth.

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## QWECXZ

Ali_Baba said:


> I dont understand this statement ? What Neo-Nazis ???? Seriously ??


Well, he claims that Ukraine is ruled by Neo-Nazis and he's sticking to his claim apparently. Nevertheless, we have seen photos of Ukrainians with swastikas in this thread. So, it's not that surprising either.

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## NA71

pakpride00090 said:


> If muslims had any brain , they would have supported both sides via disinformation and other tactics in cyberspace. The more these white people fight each other , the better it is for muslim world. We should have added more fuel to the fire.


----------



## Stealth

Ali_Baba said:


> I dont understand this statement ? What Neo-Nazis ???? Seriously ??



that Ukraine comedian and his comedian tola is neo-nazi tabar lol

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## Titanium100

QWECXZ said:


> Putin's official conditions for peace with Ukraine:
> 
> 1. Ukraine must accept the annexation of the Crimea and recognize it as Russian territory
> 2. Neo-Nazis must leave Ukraine
> 3. Ukraine must accept neutrality



These demands you have qouted a false and if he was to come with these tree demands it would be like accepting defeat but these are his demands the below..

But you must notice there is a catch? They will never disarm and a demand they can't accept


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496942434063986697

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## tower9

Titanium100 said:


> These demands you have qouted a false and if he was to come with these tree demands it would be like accepting defeat but these are his demands the below..
> 
> But you must notice there is a catch? They will never disarm and a demand they can't accept
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496942434063986697


Sounds pretty damn reasonable to me. This is just more proof that this is all Zelensky’s and the Zionists’ fault.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498345675855208451

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## dBSPL

President Erdogan:

"We will not give up neither Ukraine nor Russia." (Both states are our friends.)

"We will use the authority given by Montreux."

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498343752800382977

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## hussain0216

The entire world

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## Oublious

Ali_Baba said:


> Has Turkey provided any attrition replacements? Could they supply the Americans/Brits who will "happily" forward them to Ukraine ?




I don't now that....


----------



## tower9

dBSPL said:


> President Erdogan:
> 
> "We will not give up neither Ukraine nor Russia." (Both states are our friends.)
> 
> "We will use the authority given by Montreux."
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498343752800382977


Yep. Turkey is positioning itself as an independent power and not a servant of NATO interests.

They know which way the wind is blowing.

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## Vergennes

tower9 said:


> Sounds pretty damn reasonable to me. This is just more proof that this is all Zelensky’s and the Zionists’ fault.



LMAO the Russians are literally calling the Ukrainians to renounce to their independence and means of national defense,no sane country would accept such "demands". How is it in Russia's business if Ukraine wants to look to the west instead of east ?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498332884121399307

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## QWECXZ

Vergennes said:


> LMAO the Russians are literally calling the Ukrainians to renounce to their independence and means of national defense,no sane country would accept such "demands". How is it in Russia's business if Ukraine wants to look to the west instead of east ?


No sane country would itch for war with the world's 2nd most powerful country.


----------



## NA71

BREAKING: "Incredible fakes" - Russia slams footage of Ukraine conflict at the United Nations​

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## Iron Shrappenel

dBSPL said:


> Turkish rap performance from a Russian soldier (conflict edition)
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498298617790189574


No Turk I've asked has translated this song for me


----------



## dBSPL

tower9 said:


> Yep. Turkey is positioning itself as an independent power and not a servant of NATO interests.
> 
> They know which way the wind is blowing.


There are some strategic benefits that Russia has providing us while TR moving away from NATO. For this reason, they need to conclude the Ukrainian occupation without a heavy defeat.


----------



## nang2

Vergennes said:


> LMAO the Russians are literally calling the Ukrainians to renounce to their independence and means of national defense,no sane country would accept such "demands". How is it in Russia's business if Ukraine wants to look to the west instead of east ?


They do that one way or the other. Just look at many of NATO member countries. US has to knock on their heads to force them to raise their defense budget to 2%. Russia basically says if you have to renounce your independence, you have to depend on me, not the other guy.

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## dBSPL

Iron Shrappenel said:


> No Turk I've asked has translated this song for me


There may be good reasons

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> what a great weapon. they should rename in "freedom missile".


Maybe 5 second, I forgot.....

Anyway, by the time you paint your target, that's probably like a second before you pull your trigger. so, yeah......

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498338018628882439

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498338800803762177

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498340886324854784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498343710857310216

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## jhungary

dBSPL said:


> There may be good reasons


Is it similar to the reason I don't translate Despacito when people ask me to...?

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498348279972696071

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498348315594965000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498345381289238534

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498343132777353227


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498349268343664645


----------



## jhungary

NotSure said:


> Your "analysis" goes far beyong saying something. You wanna play smart here about the russian tactics, timeline, blabla, but at the end of the day you are a parrot repeating nato propaganda. Because all your input is based on this propaganda.


Am I not being clear in my last post? Am I being too subtle?

As I said, if you can point me to what and why my point is wrong, that's better than this is propaganda, that is propaganda. 

I mean, what is you total experience of Military Service? What is your total experience of being under fire? You must have been there longer than me and done thing better than me to say I am wrong or this is propaganda. Otherwise how would you know? 

Dude, you are like that guy I met in Bus Stop 6 months ago in Sydney, when I told him I was in the US Army, he said "Prove it" I said 'Even if I prove it to you, there are no way you will know if that is authentic, you never served"

As our British friend have this song.

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## Raja Porus

Inception-06 said:


> know I am asking to
> Much. But maybe.
> 
> @Desert Fox 1 hard lesson’s to
> Learn for any military which have neglected logistical arm of their military. After seeing this war, the Indian combined warfare is a useless compared to the Pakistani. India will be never capable enough to strike deep inside Pakistan conquering and holding Pakistani territory is impossible. The Pakistani Military will disassemble the Indian armour and mechanised forces into metal scrap.


_"Logistics is an unglamorous and underappreciated exercise. To be generalized, when the battle is going well the tacticians and strategists ate lionised; it is only when tanks run out of gas that people go head-hunting for the logisticians."_

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498347192817442816Melitopol


----------



## NotSure

Can someone explain this to me? What is that?

Timestamp 7:44:

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## Turingsage

Rouble crashed 40%
Russian inflation through the roof
Central bank raises lending rate to 20% from 9.5%
Stock market closed after the crash and the anticipated complete collapse today

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## dBSPL

President of Ukraine Zelensky

If our airspace is protected, we will chase the invading Russian army.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498346012116672513


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498350458641039363

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498350706960572416


----------



## Trango Towers

Snake Island soldiers who told Russians ‘go f**k yourself’ alive but held prisoner


They surrendered after running out of ammunition, the Ukrainian navy said




www.independent.co.uk





I dont support either side but how much BS is coming out of ukraine

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## Iron Shrappenel

jhungary said:


> Is it similar to the reason I don't translate Despacito when people ask me to...?


No, that song is ear bleed


----------



## RescueRanger

Iron Shrappenel said:


> No Turk I've asked has translated this song for me


 Edited on a brother members request 😂

Reactions: Like Like:
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## dBSPL

NotSure said:


> Can someone explain this to me? What is that?
> 
> Timestamp 7:44:



BAPHOMET ... worshipped by the Knights Templar

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## alimobin memon

NA71 said:


> BREAKING: "Incredible fakes" - Russia slams footage of Ukraine conflict at the United Nations​


It was very clear that if really the way convoys are destroyed Russia would have retreated.


----------



## srshkmr

Trango Towers said:


> Snake Island soldiers who told Russians ‘go f**k yourself’ alive but held prisoner
> 
> 
> They surrendered after running out of ammunition, the Ukrainian navy said
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dont support either side but how much BS is coming out of ukraine


Things like this push neutral civilians to take up arms, by the time the truth is realised, it would be too late for them to drop weapons and go back to normal lives


----------



## R Wing

Turingsage said:


> Rouble crashed 40%
> Russian inflation through the roof
> Central bank raises lending rate to 20% from 9.5%
> Stock market closed after the crash and the anticipated complete collapse today



I'm sure all of this was predicted/expected and gamed for.

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## dBSPL

RescueRanger said:


> Song is called Patlamaya Devam where is the video with English lyrics

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## QWECXZ

dBSPL said:


> President of Ukraine Zelensky
> 
> If our airspace is protected, we will chase the invading Russian army.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498346012116672513


If his aunt had a penis, she would've been his uncle.

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## R Wing

dBSPL said:


> BAPHOMET ... worshipped by the Knights Templar



And most Freemasons today - but you only get to know after the 32nd degree.


----------



## jhungary

Iron Shrappenel said:


> No, that song is ear bleed


Well, considering that song is about 2 people having you know what, i think that's a given...

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## Foinikas

Have you guys seen that?! 









Ukrainian fighters grease bullets against Chechens with pig fat


Video shared by National Guard of Ukraine shows Azov fighters dipping bullets to be used on Chechen fighters in pig fat.




www.aljazeera.com

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jhungary

R Wing said:


> I'm sure all of this was predicted/expected and gamed for.


Probably not. Considering this is really the mother of all sanction.

One of the TV host that was in that sanction cry on live TV because Italy confiscated two of his mansion.

I don't think even people in the west wouldn't expecting they will get these sanction. Not backing the Central Bank in Russia and taking them out from SWIFT? That's death sentence for your economy, I am not sure this is something even the Chinese can help. I mean even Iran wasn't hit that hard.

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## Muhammed45

Russia bombed a NATO related military site funded by Britain.






A coastal area in Ukraine designed to host NATO ships.

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> BAPHOMET ... worshipped by the Knights Templar











Muhammed45 said:


> Russia bombed a NATO related military site funded by Britain.
> View attachment 819580
> 
> 
> A coastal area in Ukraine designed to host NATO ships.


Source ?


----------



## dBSPL

R Wing said:


> And most Freemasons today - but you only get to know after the 32nd degree.


A new addon pack has arrived and new subscribers can now upgrade to lvl-40. They say that with the update, a regulation has been made for unskilled rappers to close one eye in their clips and receive a grammy.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


>


Okay 😂. I knew you’d say that 😂


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498354780468559873
📍Russian operational tactical aviation hit 6 columns of armored vehicles of the Ukrainian armed forces.

📍Since the beginning of the operation, Russian forces have attacked 1,146 Ukrainian military infrastructure facilities, including 31 command posts and communication centers, 81 S-300, Buk M-1 and Osa air defense systems,
as well as 75 radar stations.

📍311 tanks and other armored vehicles, 42 planes and helicopters (including ground ones), 51 multiple rocket launchers, 147 field artillery pieces and mortars were destroyed.

📍In the last 24 hours, another 110 Ukrainian soldiers have voluntarily laid down their arms, the ministry reports.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

mike2000 is back said:


> Ahahaha I was sure you supported Russia's action in Chechnya(though you are now crying crocodile tears against Ukraine's government operation against Russian separatists groups ) .
> So you think Chechnyan's suddenly welcomed Russia and started loving Russia after being massacred brutally during one of the most vicious war since WWII right? Lol They had no choice, after being bombed and massacred indiscriminately, it was either they accepted Putins offer or they will be obliterated. They choose the former and I can't blame them to be honest(I would have done the same. Lol )
> 
> Whether Russia seized being commie or not is not the point. Do you supported Russias actions of trying to protect its territorial intergrity against separatists groups YES OR NO? LOL




UK who has attacked Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and who gave away Palestine to the Jews have no moral authority to question Russian actions.

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## Song Hong

mike2000 is back said:


> Lol You guys are not racist towards black people? Lool Good joke. I'm sure you guys wouldn't mind your women marrying a black man right? Lol
> Dude western Europe US much tolerant compared to you guys towards blacks to be honest. In fact, it's also because we have interacted with them for much more longer than you guys as well. So have gotten more used to living with them here and getting use to inter marriages here. Not the case with you guys, in fact I even know a few cases when I was student here in Britain where Pakistani girl was threatened with death by her brothers/family for dating/planning to marry a black guy and "tarnishing " the image/honour of the family by being together with a dirty "nigga/Kala." 😶
> Anyway,who I'm I to say what is right or wrong, to each his own . Lol Don't throw stones when you live in an even more fragile glass house.
> Anyway, let's get back to the Ukraine's invasion by Russia. Going off topic 😁



Anglo and Jews are the world greatest racial sht stirrer. They spread discord and make everyone kill one another.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498356668735889420

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## QWECXZ

jhungary said:


> I mean even Iran wasn't hit that hard.


Iran was hit much harder than Russia at first, and it was followed by the pandemic and lockdowns later, but we recovered fast. Russia will overcome these sanctions as well.

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## RescueRanger

O/T:
If anyone is tuned into the webcam for Kyiv the sound of the bell chimes from the clock tower every hour is beautiful 😊


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498357384774881283


----------



## Trango Towers

Foinikas said:


> Have you guys seen that?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian fighters grease bullets against Chechens with pig fat
> 
> 
> Video shared by National Guard of Ukraine shows Azov fighters dipping bullets to be used on Chechen fighters in pig fat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com


These asshole are learning from Israeli fascists

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## jhungary

QWECXZ said:


> Iran was hit much harder than Russia at first, and it was followed by the pandemic and lockdowns later, but we recovered fast. Russia will overcome these sanctions as well.


Honestly, not likely

The single biggest sanction in this round is the US stop backing Russian Central Bank. It was never done before and it have a very serious implication.

Because US is the world leading reserve currency, which mean Russian Central Bank (Some 600 billions) are going to be majority in US Dollar either in US or in China, those asset is frozen, last time I heard that is 400 billions. Well, this is not that bad, but. EU and UK also have similar sanction, and altogether it is estimated that 75% of Russian Reserve are gone over night, only left with 15% gold and the rest in Yuan. But still this is just the Piggy Bank

The US also taken away Russian Central bank to raise debt. Which mean they cannot even borrow money to prop up their currency, let's say China is willing to break the sanction and help Russia and lend them everything. You are talking about 1.4 trillions dollar a year, every single year. Seriously, would China want to do that is another business, i mean sure, if Russia can give them back similar amount of resource, but there aren't any, the best Russia can offer is oil and gas, which probably not going to cover half the money

Essentially, Russia become a country without currency. I can't even imagine how a country can survive without its currency.

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## Ashesh

NATO tules out 'no-fly zone' over Ukraine. NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg said that NATO had no intention of entering Ukraine by land or air to stop Russia.


----------



## Trango Towers

Ashesh said:


> NATO tules out 'no-fly zone' over Ukraine. NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg said that NATO had no intention of entering Ukraine by land or air to stop Russia.


Nato is smart. But the economic war is the future.
Bombs do damage but its money that matters.


----------



## QWECXZ

jhungary said:


> Honestly, not likely
> 
> The single biggest sanction in this round is the US stop backing Russian Central Bank. It was never done before and it have a very serious implication.
> 
> Because US is the world leading reserve currency, which mean Russian Central Bank (Some 600 billions) are going to be majority in US Dollar either in US or in China, those asset is frozen, last time I heard that is 400 billions. Well, this is not that bad, but. EU and UK also have similar sanction, and altogether it is estimated that 75% of Russian Reserve are gone over night, only left with 15% gold and the rest in Yuan. But still this is just the Piggy Bank
> 
> The US also taken away Russian Central bank to raise debt. Which mean they cannot even borrow money to prop up their currency, let's say China is willing to break the sanction and help Russia and lend them everything. You are talking about 1.4 trillions dollar a year, every single year. Seriously, would China want to do that is another business, i mean sure, if Russia can give them back similar amount of resource, but there aren't any, the best Russia can offer is oil and gas, which probably not going to cover half the money
> 
> Essentially, Russia become a country without currency. I can't even imagine how a country can survive without its currency.


It has been done before and it happened to Iran twice, once after the hostage crisis in 1980 when the US froze 2 trillion dollars of Iranian assets and later after Trump pulled out of the JCPOA and all sanctions on Iran's Central Bank returned immediately and the Europeans followed those unilateral US sanctions as well. Iran didn't collapse. Neither will Russia.

Iran cannot use the USD for its trade since 2018 unless the OFAC issues waivers for the countries or the companies that want to trade with us. If Iran didn't collapse and our economy is projected to grow by 3% this year, neither will Russia.

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## kingQamaR

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> UK who has attacked Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and who gave away Palestine to the Jews have no moral authority to question Russian actions.



You do know why brits / France were successful against Moslems 

due to your Arabs help given to Lawrence of Arabia fight against the caliphate in the region the last one ever who was defending the Jerusalem they all bravely died doing it. 

So the Arabs are to be blamed for loss of Jerusalem and state of Israel coming

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## pakpride00090

mike2000 is back said:


> Lol You guys are not racist towards black people? Lool Good joke. I'm sure you guys wouldn't mind your women marrying a black man right? Lol
> Dude western Europe US much tolerant compared to you guys towards blacks to be honest. In fact, it's also because we have interacted with them for much more longer than you guys as well. So have gotten more used to living with them here and getting use to inter marriages here. Not the case with you guys, in fact I even know a few cases when I was student here in Britain where Pakistani girl was threatened with death by her brothers/family for dating/planning to marry a black guy and "tarnishing " the image/honour of the family by being together with a dirty "nigga/Kala." 😶
> Anyway,who I'm I to say what is right or wrong, to each his own . Lol Don't throw stones when you live in an even more fragile glass house.
> Anyway, let's get back to the Ukraine's invasion by Russia. Going off topic 😁



Is marriage to other races the only criteria to judge racism lol ? 

I think genocide , slavery and other systemic discrimination are a better metrics to judge hatred and racism. 

That lady's rejection of a black male cannot be compared to historical and current brutalities faced by blacks in white countries. Just because few white women married black man doesn't mean you are better.

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## RescueRanger

*Kyiv: Air Raid Sirens can be heard 

Live Webcam: 




*

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## Oublious

LoL


China will back Russia, lets see what kind backing they will provide.....

War is expensive.

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## shanipisces2002

GamoAccu said:


> Russia-Ukraine crisis: Came to Ukraine for studies, Indian student now taking combat training | Ground report
> 
> 
> Amid the Ukraine-Russia crisis and the fear of possible war, India Today spoke to Sai, an Indian student in Ukraine, who is undergoing combat training. Sai is now part of the Georgian Legion, undergoing training in Kyiv.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.indiatoday.in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 819066


is it me or these guns looks like toy guns


----------



## HttpError

Turingsage said:


> Rouble crashed 40%
> Russian inflation through the roof
> Central bank raises lending rate to 20% from 9.5%
> Stock market closed after the crash and the anticipated complete collapse today



Tsar will be feeling some heat now.

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Maybe 5 second, I forgot.....
> 
> Anyway, by the time you paint your target, that's probably like a second before you pull your trigger. so, yeah......



Russians are still not launching an offensive. What they are waiting for?

There are no news of reinforcements, nor movements, just both sides switching to artillery exchanges.

Is it a stalemate now?


----------



## alimobin memon

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498356668735889420


This video tells that all ukrainian claim of destroyed russian vehicle were actually ukrainian lol.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498362600161267732

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Oublious

Iron Shrappenel said:


> No Turk I've asked has translated this song for me

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## RescueRanger

New high-res image of destroyed bridge is released by MAXAR, the bridge linking Bucha with Irpin was destroyed by UAF fighters at 0900 hrs on the Feb 27th to delay the advance of the Russian federation forces.


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Russians are still not launching an offensive. What they are waiting for?
> 
> There are no news of reinforcements, nor movements, just both sides switching to artillery exchanges.
> 
> Is it a stalemate now?


Usually no movement means it is waiting on a massive airstrike.

They are probably waiting on the bear, just like how we wait for our B-52


----------



## TheNoob

RescueRanger said:


> New high-res image of destroyed bridge is released by MAXAR, the bridge linking Bucha with Irpin was destroyed by UAF fighters at 0900 hrs on the Feb 27th to delay the advance of the Russian federation forces.
> 
> View attachment 819593




In that image, I see 5 rekt armored vehicles at least. 
if the bottom is the way to kiev, most likely russian then. 

Or retreating ukranians.

ON a side note, that road is carpeted so well its bending so perfectly! 

;((

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## SaadH

Trango Towers said:


> These asshole are learning from Israeli fascists


Actually from the British and American benefactors. Brits used this ignorant practice in the colonial wars and from their it made it's way to Americans who used it in Philippines against the Moro Muslims.


----------



## Paul2

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 819591
> 
> 
> New high-res image of destroyed bridge is released by MAXAR, the bridge linking Bucha with Irpin was destroyed by UAF fighters at 0900 hrs on the Feb 27th to delay the advance of the Russian federation forces.
> 
> View attachment 819593



UAF is still very active it seems. Russian offensive on Kiyv still stuck in small towns, and treelines north of the city, where it gets whittled down.

No news from the south, or east besides now regular artillery exchange.

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## R Wing

dBSPL said:


> A new addon pack has arrived and new subscribers can now upgrade to lvl-40. They say that with the update, a regulation has been made for unskilled rappers to close one eye in their clips and receive a grammy.



And the music video must feature triangular shapes

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Thinker3

jhungary said:


> Honestly, not likely
> 
> The single biggest sanction in this round is the US stop backing Russian Central Bank. It was never done before and it have a very serious implication.
> 
> Because US is the world leading reserve currency, which mean Russian Central Bank (Some 600 billions) are going to be majority in US Dollar either in US or in China, those asset is frozen, last time I heard that is 400 billions. Well, this is not that bad, but. EU and UK also have similar sanction, and altogether it is estimated that 75% of Russian Reserve are gone over night, only left with 15% gold and the rest in Yuan. But still this is just the Piggy Bank
> 
> The US also taken away Russian Central bank to raise debt. Which mean they cannot even borrow money to prop up their currency, let's say China is willing to break the sanction and help Russia and lend them everything. You are talking about 1.4 trillions dollar a year, every single year. Seriously, would China want to do that is another business, i mean sure, if Russia can give them back similar amount of resource, but there aren't any, the best Russia can offer is oil and gas, which probably not going to cover half the money
> 
> Essentially, Russia become a country without currency. I can't even imagine how a country can survive without its currency.


I hope and wish the sanctions will not hurt Russia too much and they can manage them, otherwise if it comes to a point where due to sanctions Russia become on verge of collapse, it will not result in regime change, it will result in Russia nuking the EU, US and UK with everything they got. They may also get destroyed in return but they will not go down without destroying all their enemies.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498364843434328064


----------



## NotSure

jhungary said:


> Usually no movement means it is waiting on a massive airstrike.
> 
> They are probably waiting on the bear, just like how we wait for our B-52


More Hellducks and Co.

The Tu-95 is only a cruise missile carrier now.


----------



## RescueRanger

Further High Res Images released from MAXAR this evening show that the column outside IVANKOV may have taken a few hits. The first image is just my geo location, the second is the image from maxar - notice the large craters in the field adjacent:


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

dBSPL said:


> BAPHOMET ... worshipped by the Knights Templar


----------



## RescueRanger

TheNoob said:


> In that image, I see 5 rekt armored vehicles at least.
> if the bottom is the way to kiev, most likely russian then.
> 
> Or retreating ukranians.
> 
> ON a side note, that road is carpeted so well its bending so perfectly!
> 
> ;((


The vehicles you can see most likely belong to the RF forces that tried to push into IRPIN in the early hours of the morning on the 27th.


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498365850839138313

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## RescueRanger

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498365850839138313


Almost killed themselves. Molotov's wont do much unless the hatch is open. Flame throwers are far more effective

Reactions: Like Like:
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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498366360530743297


----------



## Stealth

RescueRanger said:


> Further High Res Images released from MAXAR this evening show that the column outside IVANKOV may have taken a few hits. The first image is just my geo location, the second is the image from maxar - notice the large craters in the field adjacent:
> 
> View attachment 819594
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 819596



I have noticed one thing from the past 2 days, most Russian convoys moving without any air cover... a serious lack of planning esp in the modern battlefield.

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## IblinI

Oublious said:


> LoL
> 
> 
> China will back Russia, lets see what kind backing they will provide.....
> 
> War is expensive.


Speaking of cost and money, you should focus on turkey's 50% inflation and soaring energy bill.

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## beijingwalker

Stealth said:


> I have noticed one thing from the past 2 days, most Russian convoys moving without any air cover... a serious lack of planning esp in the modern battlefield.


How do you know they don't have air cover? how many Russian military vehicles have been destroyed by Ukrainian airforce so far?


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498365850839138313


OMG did they molotov the guy who was towing the ifv 😂😂


----------



## beijingwalker

When you know there'll be no threat from the sky you'll choose the easiest and quickist route to move your troops, that was exactly what Russia did, in a war, time and how quickly you can get to some key positions before your enemy is everything .


----------



## jhungary

Thinker3 said:


> I hope and wish the sanctions will not hurt Russia too much and they can manage them, otherwise if it comes to a point where due to sanctions Russia become on verge of collapse, it will not result in regime change, it will result in Russia nuking the EU, US and UK with everything they got. They may also get destroyed in return but they will not go down without destroying all their enemies.



Well, I don't know, but as far as the sanction goes, that is the idea of how this is going to end until the West lifted it. 

I mean, there are no other way because effectively the west is taken away the Russian currency....

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## LeGenD

Zelensky vs Putin: who’s winning the PR battle?


As Russian bombs fell across Ukraine, the contrast between the leaders of the warring nations could not be starker.




www.scmp.com


----------



## RescueRanger

If the timestamps are correct on these tweets it has taken the Russians 3 days to get all that hardware from Sergiyev (Russian) to Ivankiv (Ukraine) +/- 1 day due to nature of satellite imagery.

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## jhungary

NotSure said:


> More Hellducks and Co.
> 
> The Tu-95 is only a cruise missile carrier now.


Look, it's I don't give a damn because I have not served a day in my life

LOL I wonder what has been hitting Kyiv?






You DO KNOW airstrike can mean both missile strike and bomb run, it's not like there is a rule somewhere when you call in airstrike, it have to drop bomb......


----------



## RescueRanger

Stealth said:


> I have noticed one thing from the past 2 days, most Russian convoys moving without any air cover... a serious lack of planning esp in the modern battlefield.


That is what perplexes me, why move all that vulnerable equipment like it's the 1940's?


----------



## Thinker3

jhungary said:


> Well, I don't know, but as far as the sanction goes, that is the idea of how this is going to end until the West lifted it.
> 
> I mean, there are no other way because effectively the west is taken away the Russian currency....


When Putin ordered his Nuclear forces to be ready he cited two reasons one of them being sanctions. Russia is not Iran, North Korea, or Venezuela, what will happen if a person who has many enemies is brought to a point where he will have to commit suicide? how will that person commit suicide? he will take his gun and kill as many enemies as he can before he dies. The biggest mistake west has done and is doing is that they are treating Russia as an ordinary country, which Russia is not.

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## beijingwalker

RescueRanger said:


> That is what perplexes me, why move all that vulnerable equipment like it's the 1940's?


Cause they knew there'll be no Ukrainian air force in the sky, Russia commanders are not idiots as western media portrayed. How many Russian military assets were destroyed by "Ukrainian airforce" so far? None.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498371175705108483


----------



## terry5

Nigeria condemns treatment of Africans trying to flee Ukraine​Government says citizens are being denied entry into Poland amid growing reports of discrimination

Russia-Ukraine crisis – live news






Emmanuel Akinwotu and Weronika Strzyżyńska
Mon 28 Feb 2022 17.46 GMT



The Nigerian government has condemned the treatment of thousands of its students and citizens fleeing the war in Ukraine, amid growing concerns that African students are facing discrimination by security officials and being denied entry into Poland.
A deluge of reports and footage posted on social media in the past week has shown acts of discrimination and violence against African, Asian and Caribbean citizens – many of them studying in Ukraine – while fleeing Ukrainian cities and at some of the country’s border posts

They are among hundreds of thousands of people trying to escape the country as civilian casualties and destruction mount.

More than half a million people have fled Ukraine since the Russian invasion began last week, according to the UN’s refugee agency, UNHCR.

The Nigerian president, Muhammadu Buhari, said on Monday: “All who flee a conflict situation have the same right to safe passage under UN convention and the colour of their passport or their skin should make no difference,” citing reports that Ukrainian police had obstructed Nigerians.

“From video evidence, first-hand reports, and from those in contact with ... Nigerian consular officials, there have been unfortunate reports of Ukrainian police and security personnel refusing to allow Nigerians to board buses and trains heading towards Ukraine-Poland border,” he said.

“One group of Nigerian students having been repeatedly refused entry into Poland have concluded they have no choice but to travel again across Ukraine and attempt to exit the country via the border with Hungary.”

Nigeria’s special adviser to the president on diaspora affairs, Abike Dabiri-Erewa, said: “Africans are being denied entry through the Ukrainian borders. The minister of foreign affairs, Geoffrey Onyeama, has taken this up with the Ukrainian ambassador. Our people who want to leave must be allowed to.”

Amid chaotic and emotional scenes at Ukraine’s borders with Poland, as well as Romania and Belarus, where a number of African governments have advised citizens to head to, the treatment of African and Asian people has caused outrage.

Many African students have condemned the difficulties they have faced trying to escape the conflict, reporting hostility from security forces, ordinary Ukrainians and border staff.

Samuel George, a 22-year-old Nigerian software engineering student, drove from Kyiv, along with four of his friends, fellow students from Nigeria and South Africa, to the Polish border. Queues of cars full of people trying to leave spanned 31 miles (50km) to the border. Yet when some men who were in the queue noticed they were Africans, he said, they stopped their vehicle.

“They immediately saw that the Ukrainians could pass but when they realised we weren’t Ukrainians they stopped it. They told us we couldn’t move forward and wouldn’t let us join the queue,” George said.

When they tried to defy them, he said the men attacked and vandalised their windscreen. “They demanded $500 – we begged and negotiated to pay $100. We had to leave the car and trek. We were walking for almost five hours to the border with Poland. One of us was sick. The temperature was freezing, it was so tough









Nigeria condemns treatment of Africans trying to flee Ukraine


Government says citizens’ access to Polish border impeded amid growing reports of discrimination




www.theguardian.com

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498372584882249729


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498373952217010177

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Thinker3 said:


> When Putin ordered his Nuclear forces to be ready he cited two reasons one of them being sanctions. Russia is not Iran, North Korea, or Venezuela, what will happen if a person who has many enemies is brought to a point where he will have to commit suicide? how will that person commit suicide? he will take his gun and kill as many enemies as he can before he dies. The biggest mistake west has done and is doing is that they are treating Russia as an ordinary country, which Russia is not.


Again, I am not saying that you are wrong.

I am saying this is the current Economic Sanction going to lead. I mean unless I am mistaken something, this is what the West is trying to do, maybe they want to trigger a nuclear attack? I don't know, but what I do know is the current sanction is to taking Russian Currency away, I mean, there are no other effect other than making Russian Bank failed to raise money.

Again, or am I missing something here?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

jhungary said:


> Well, I don't know, but as far as the sanction goes, that is the idea of how this is going to end until the West lifted it.
> 
> I mean, there are no other way because effectively the west is taken away the Russian currency....



You're really sharing your feelings. Propaganda in the media can't change facts on the ground. And those facts are Russian bombings are returning Ukraine into stone age. For some strange reasons, when the Western elites are at war with a country, there is so much hype they put out in their media. 

Secondly, before the start of this war, Putin went to China and met with Xi. They came to an understanding and agreement. The EU president announced today that the Russians already planned for the expected sanctions into account, and moved most of their funds to either Russia or China. He's also stated those resources are beyond the reach of the Western sanctions. So no matter how much hype you and others put out, Russia already calculated all of these sanctions into an account.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498373675690696707

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498374225358462982

Reactions: Like Like:
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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498373781533990912


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## RescueRanger

Found these images earlier - geo location provided below:

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## beijingwalker

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498373781533990912


So supporting China is US priority.. actually we always know, US is buying up Chinese goods like crazy year on year, US is one of the biggest supporters of China and CCP in the world.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498346428871200770

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## Paul2

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498374225358462982


They are flying into Belarus now...


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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You're really sharing your feelings. Propaganda in the media can't change facts on the ground. And those facts are Russian bombings are returning Ukraine into stone age. For some strange reasons, when the Western elites are at war with a country, there is so much hype they put out in their media.
> 
> Secondly, before the start of this war, Putin went to China and met with Xi. They came to an understanding and agreement. The EU president announced today that the Russians already planned for the expected sanctions into account, and moved most of their funds to either Russia or China. He's also stated those resources are beyond the reach of the Western sanctions. So no matter how much hype you and others put out, Russia already calculated all of these sanctions into an account.


I don't believe I share anything about my feeling.

Again, if you think I am wrong, please tell me what this round of announced sanction are going to lead to, if not a complete collapse of Russian economic system, which, by the way, is already happening......I mean, there are nothing they can achieve other than seizing Russian Asset overseas, frozen asset overseas, refused to exchange the remaining currency in Russia, and refused to back Rouble by limiting Russian Central Bank ability to create new debt. You can't make money unless you can guarantee it and you can't guarantee it without any foreign currency, which is the entire concept of "Foreign Reserve" mean, I mean, what am I missing here?

Also, China may not help Russia because you are talking about a massive undertaking, you are talking about taking in the entire financial backing of 150 million people, numerous corporation and so on, you are talking about around 2 trillions dollar a year. Are you for sure China is going to pick up the piece, no question ask?

As I said, these sanction even surprise the people in the west, I don't think Russia would foresee it. And finally if Russia did see it, they probably would not threaten to use nuclear missile........


----------



## terry5

mike2000 is back said:


> Lol You guys are not racist towards black people? Lool Good joke. I'm sure you guys wouldn't mind your women marrying a black man right? Lol
> Dude western Europe US much tolerant compared to you guys towards blacks to be honest. In fact, it's also because we have interacted with them for much more longer than you guys as well. So have gotten more used to living with them here and getting use to inter marriages here. Not the case with you guys, in fact I even know a few cases when I was student here in Britain where Pakistani girl was threatened with death by her brothers/family for dating/planning to marry a black guy and "tarnishing " the image/honour of the family by being together with a dirty "nigga/Kala." 😶
> Anyway,who I'm I to say what is right or wrong, to each his own . Lol Don't throw stones when you live in an even more fragile glass house.
> Anyway, let's get back to the Ukraine's invasion by Russia. Going off topic 😁


wrong comparison try harder next time

Pakistanis don’t want there sisters daughters to marry a whiteman let alone a black man not even an Indian a Pakistani would marry
Racist ? Nope .

I’m sure you’ve also seen stories of Pakistanis in UK kicking up whites an Indians if they dare even try mingle with a Pakistani girl
Equal opportunities ? no matter what color a beating you will get 

Kala mean black dumbo and no one call black Pakistani aka kala Pakistani a niga

And you’ve lived with black people longer than Pakistanis lol you don’t know anything






I don’t think you’ve travelled the world to see how white man treat someone according to he’s skin tone
You lot ( the whiteman ) kill people just for the color of hes skin

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## maverick1977

jhungary said:


> Honestly, not likely
> 
> The single biggest sanction in this round is the US stop backing Russian Central Bank. It was never done before and it have a very serious implication.
> 
> Because US is the world leading reserve currency, which mean Russian Central Bank (Some 600 billions) are going to be majority in US Dollar either in US or in China, those asset is frozen, last time I heard that is 400 billions. Well, this is not that bad, but. EU and UK also have similar sanction, and altogether it is estimated that 75% of Russian Reserve are gone over night, only left with 15% gold and the rest in Yuan. But still this is just the Piggy Bank
> 
> The US also taken away Russian Central bank to raise debt. Which mean they cannot even borrow money to prop up their currency, let's say China is willing to break the sanction and help Russia and lend them everything. You are talking about 1.4 trillions dollar a year, every single year. Seriously, would China want to do that is another business, i mean sure, if Russia can give them back similar amount of resource, but there aren't any, the best Russia can offer is oil and gas, which probably not going to cover half the money
> 
> Essentially, Russia become a country without currency. I can't even imagine how a country can survive without its currency.


46% dollar reserves are in Russia and China, 18% with china and 28% with Russia itself.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498350965707182082


----------



## QWECXZ

jhungary said:


> Again, I am not saying that you are wrong.
> 
> I am saying this is the current Economic Sanction going to lead. I mean unless I am mistaken something, this is what the West is trying to do, maybe they want to trigger a nuclear attack? I don't know, but what I do know is the current sanction is to taking Russian Currency away, I mean, there are no other effect other than making Russian Bank failed to raise money.
> 
> Again, or am I missing something here?


Yes, you are missing a lot here.

It's not the US that backs the central bank of the Russian federation. You do not seem to fully understand the concept of fiat currency apparently. A country's currency is backed by how much people trust that country to pay them back with goods. The US dollar is the dominant currency because energy (particularly Arab oil) is traded in the US dollar, and the US continues to remain the world's main producer of high-tech stuff. Also, because the US as the world's police offers security to states who accept the US dominion. So, if your forex reserves are in the US dollar, you can always use it to purchase oil or high-tech stuff and the US will protect you militarily against other countries, however the later one has not worked well in recent years, particularly regarding the security of Arabs against Iran.

Your whole assumption about the US backing the currency of other countries is wrong and beyond ridiculous. These sanctions on the central bank of Russia are going to have an impact on the Russian Ruble, but it is not going to make it worthless or make Russia unable to "raise" money. It won't make the Russian economy collapse, not even close. Russia is an energy super power and it can produce many high-tech stuff on her own. And not only it doesn't need others to provide her with security, but it is already providing many countries like Syria and Venezuela with security.

And Russia is much better prepared than Iran for this scenario. When this happened to Iran in 2018, Iran didn't have an alternative system. Russia has already developed SPFS (Система передачи финансовых сообщений) exactly for this day. China has developed their own system as well. They learned their lessons from sanctions on Iran.

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## hussain0216

Foinikas said:


> Have you guys seen that?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian fighters grease bullets against Chechens with pig fat
> 
> 
> Video shared by National Guard of Ukraine shows Azov fighters dipping bullets to be used on Chechen fighters in pig fat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com



Yeah those dumb fcuks think it's kryptonite or something, 

Let's bet on the Chechens taking a few heads


----------



## nang2

maverick1977 said:


> 46% dollar reserves are in Russia and China, 18% with china and 28% with Russia itself.


Have you been living under a rock for the last few years?  China has a massive dollar reserve but Russia has very little.

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## dBSPL

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498372584882249729



These are logistics trains carrying diesel and supplies. Although Russia has only advanced 50 km, it cannot protect its logistics lines. Whichever general planned this operation should be exiled as a sergeant to a village in Siberia.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498373952217010177



They are now being direct because of the activation of the nuclear deterence


----------



## jhungary

maverick1977 said:


> 46% dollar reserves are in Russia and China, 18% with china and 28% with Russia itself.


That mean 54% are overseas,,,,,,,

That mean the number is around $300 billions, and once that gone, that's gone. They can't make anymore,

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## Paul2

RescueRanger said:


> If the timestamps are correct on these tweets it has taken the Russians 3 days to get all that hardware from Sergiyev (Russian) to Ivankiv (Ukraine) +/- 1 day due to nature of satellite imagery.
> View attachment 819602



What is happening with this long, long convoy is completely ridiculous.

It's length is actually... growing! All while under constant shelling. New Russian reinforcements all get stuck in that monumental pileup in woods.

The head of the convoy gets contstant shelling, and the end doesn't seem to be able to comprehend what happens 10km ahead.

@jhungary what in the world is that?

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## Dustom999

QWECXZ said:


> Yes, you are missing a lot here.
> 
> It's not the US that backs the central bank of the Russian federation. You do not seem to fully understand the concept of fiat currency apparently. A country's currency is backed by how much people trust that country to pay them back with goods. The US dollar is the dominant currency because energy (particularly Arab oil) is traded in the US dollar, and the US continues to remain the world's main producer of high-tech stuff. Also, because the US as the world's police offers security to states who accept the US dominion. So, if your forex reserves are in the US dollar, you can always use it to purchase oil or high-tech stuff and the US will protect you militarily against other countries, however the later one has not worked well in recent years, particularly regarding the security of Arabs against Iran.
> 
> Your whole assumption about the US backing the currency of other countries is wrong and beyond ridiculous. These sanctions on the central bank of Russia are going to have an impact on the Russian Ruble, but it is not going to make it worthless or make Russia unable to "raise" money. It won't make the Russian economy collapse, not even close.
> 
> And Russia is much better prepared than Iran for this scenario. When this happened to Iran in 2018, Iran didn't have an alternative system. Russia has already developed SPFS (Система передачи финансовых сообщений) exactly for this day. China has developed their own system as well. They learned their lessons from sanctions on Iran.


Also this time he failed to mention how, while he served, central banks across the world lined up to seek his advice on how to prepare for conflict that they could see looming. But how would you have known, you never served!


----------



## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> I don't believe I share anything about my feeling.
> 
> Again, if you think I am wrong, please tell me what this round of announced sanction are going to lead to, if not a complete collapse of Russian economic system, which, by the way, is already happening......I mean, there are nothing they can achieve other than seizing Russian Asset overseas, frozen asset overseas, refused to exchange the remaining currency in Russia, and refused to back Rouble by limiting Russian Central Bank ability to create new debt. You can't make money unless you can guarantee it and you can't guarantee it without any foreign currency, which is the entire concept of "Foreign Reserve" mean, I mean, what am I missing here?
> 
> Also, China may not help Russia because you are talking about a massive undertaking, you are talking about taking in the entire financial backing of 150 million people, numerous corporation and so on, you are talking about around 2 trillions dollar a year. Are you for sure China is going to pick up the piece, no question ask?
> 
> As I said, these sanction even surprise the people in the west, I don't think Russia would foresee it. And finally if Russia did see it, they probably would not threaten to use nuclear missile........


China opposes US, EU sanctions against Russia; says will carry out normal trade with Moscow​





China opposes US, EU sanctions against Russia; says will carry out normal trade with Moscow


Beijing, Feb 28 (PTI) China, a close ally of Russia, said on Monday that it was opposed to illegal unilateral sanctions and will continue to carry out normal trade cooperation with Moscow, as the US, EU and their allies stepped up punitive measures against Russia, including the interbank...




theprint.in

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## Paul2

Paul2 said:


> They are flying into Belarus now...





dBSPL said:


> These are logistics trains carrying diesel and supplies. Although Russia has only advanced 50 km, it cannot protect its logistics lines. Whichever general planned this operation should be exiled as a sergeant to a village in Siberia.




This railroad is out of commision now, and this is all when they have a 10km pileup of a convoy stuck in woods, with still arriving reinforcements.

This is surreal.

@jhungary I think its nuts

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## beijingwalker

Paul2 said:


> This railroad is out of commision now, and this all when they have 10km convoy stuck in woods. This is surreal.


Too much disinformation

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## RescueRanger

This video on a Russian Telegram channel purports to show Russian soldiers using drones and a RIB while patrolling in Mariupol.



https://zen.yandex.ru/video/watch/621d1286cddbf118aaf32f3f


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498377982771359745

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## nang2

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498377982771359745


That is just bluffing. When stinger missiles were used on Soviet helicopters, how was US held responsible?


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

lol

Putin stripped of honorary taekwondo black belt​The World Taekwondo Federation had presented the item to Putin in 2013



https://www.rt.com/sport/550885-putin-black-belt-taekwondo/

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## Foinikas

dBSPL said:


> These are logistics trains carrying diesel and supplies. Although Russia has only advanced 50 km, it cannot protect its logistics lines. Whichever general planned this operation should be exiled as a sergeant to a village in Siberia.


Well said there. Where's the mobile AA units,the aircraft patrolling for drones,the jamming systems and radars.

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## jhungary

QWECXZ said:


> Yes, you are missing a lot here.
> 
> It's not the US that backs the central bank of the Russian federation. You do not seem to fully understand the concept of fiat currency apparently. A country's currency is backed by how much people trust that country to pay them back with goods. The US dollar is the dominant currency because energy (particularly Arab oil) is traded in the US dollar, and the US continues to remain the world's main producer of high-tech stuff. Also, because the US as the world's police offers security to states who accept the US dominion. So, if your forex reserves are in the US dollar, you can always use it to purchase oil or high-tech stuff and the US will protect you militarily against other countries, however the later one has not worked well in recent years, particularly regarding the security of Arabs against Iran.
> 
> Your whole assumption about the US backing the currency of other countries is wrong and beyond ridiculous. These sanctions on the central bank of Russia are going to have an impact on the Russian Ruble, but it is not going to make it worthless or make Russia unable to "raise" money. It won't make the Russian economy collapse, not even close.
> 
> And Russia is much better prepared than Iran for this scenario. When this happened to Iran in 2018, Iran didn't have an alternative system. Russia has already developed SPFS (Система передачи финансовых сообщений) exactly for this day. China has developed their own system as well. They learned their lessons from sanctions on Iran.


I think you don't understand what I wrote, I never said US back Russian Central Bank, I said US Dollars. Because Central bank have different kind of currency to balance the debt of its own currency. Problem is, rouble is now deflated almost 30% toward the USD. Which mean to prop up the currency, the foreign reserve have to exchange to Rouble, but how? Russia has been taken out of SWIFT, US are no longer trading with Russia Due to sanction, so did UK, EU, Japan the only one that can do it is China, so yes, dump it on China.

Okay, now you dumped 300 billion on China, to balance your own currency, now what? The only way Russian Central Bank can issue new debt to clean out the currency demand is issue Rouble Bond, which, again worth nothing, you cannot get USD, GBP, Euro, JPY (Which is the top 4 world reserve by the way, account for 90% of world currency) which mean you no longer able to balance your own reserve, the only option left is Russia buy a lot of Yuan, but how? Rouble worth nothing to CNY, 1 Rouble is 0.05 Yuan as of now. So You either dump a lot of rouble to exchange with Yuan, which inflate your own currency, or you have China loan you the money.

But how much do you think China can loan you the money? You are talking about Russia, a 1.4 trillion economy, without 90% of world currency, your sole trader is Yuan, are you supposed to have China print 1.4 trillions dollar worth of Yuan every year to support you? Because, honestly that is what I am foreseeing Russia need to do to stay afloat.


----------



## kingQamaR

beijingwalker said:


> Cause they knew there'll be no Ukrainian air force in the sky, Russia commanders are not idiots as western media portrayed. How many Russian military assets were destroyed by "Ukrainian airforce" so far? None.



Yes. Russia has given a masterclass in how not to invade a country, militarily, economically, commercially and diplomatically.

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## dBSPL

Foinikas said:


> Well said there. Where's the mobile AA units,the aircraft patrolling for drones,the jamming systems and radars.


I'm afraid the image of 'mighty Russia' is being badly damaged. Recent developments points to a major decay in the senior military and diplomat cadres in Russia.


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498377702990131202

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## Ali_Baba

Channel 4 news has just announced that there is 20 x attack helicopters heading towards the capital now ...

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## beijingwalker

kingQamaR said:


> Yes. Russia has given a masterclass in how not to invade a country, militarily, economically, commercially and diplomatically.


True, I agree it's not a smart move, Putin should be better than this. I admit that I didn't expect Russia would really launch a full scale war.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498364248291950596

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## nang2

dBSPL said:


> I'm afraid the image of 'mighty Russia' is being badly damaged. Recent developments points to a major decay in the senior military and diplomat cadres in Russia.


Maintain that image would be very costly unless you are constantly in conflict, which is only achieved by US with massive tax and printed dollars.

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## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> China opposes US, EU sanctions against Russia; says will carry out normal trade with Moscow​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China opposes US, EU sanctions against Russia; says will carry out normal trade with Moscow
> 
> 
> Beijing, Feb 28 (PTI) China, a close ally of Russia, said on Monday that it was opposed to illegal unilateral sanctions and will continue to carry out normal trade cooperation with Moscow, as the US, EU and their allies stepped up punitive measures against Russia, including the interbank...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theprint.in


Then good luck printing 1,4 trillion dollars worth of Yuan (which is about 7 trillions yuan) a year to keep it afloat.

I don't think you understand what that actually mean, but well, maybe you don't need to, I mean, I dont think Russia economy is going to worth 1.4 trillions now after the invasion...


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498230066442129408

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498354524498677764
This video has allegedly been filmed by Russian forces in Talakivka 15Km from Mariupol.

*47.18519172409511, 37.72457192254352*

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> Then good luck printing 1,4 trillion dollars worth of Yuan (which is about 7 trillions yuan) a year to keep it afloat.
> 
> I don't think you understand what that actually mean, but well, maybe you don't need to, I mean, I dont think Russia economy is going to worth 1.4 trillions now after the invasion...


You do know that foreign exchange is mostly used for foreign trade, not domestic trade, don't you? How much of that 1.4 trillion economy engages in foreign trade?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498172636647641088

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## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> Then good luck printing 1,4 trillion dollars worth of Yuan (which is about 7 trillions yuan) a year to keep it afloat.
> 
> I don't think you understand what that actually mean, but well, maybe you don't need to, I mean, I dont think Russia economy is going to worth 1.4 trillions now after the invasion...


China knows so well how to deal US trade and economic wars, we are so experienced in dealing with them. China is the world biggest trader, exporter, manufacturer , raw material importer, retail market... sooner or later China will take on dollar, now it's god sent opportunity to do this job.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498382128949522438

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## Mujahid Memon

hussain0216 said:


> View attachment 819576
> 
> 
> The entire world


Eat popcorn before you become a popcorn


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498172638845452293


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> This railroad is out of commision now, and this is all when they have a 10km pileup of a convoy stuck in woods, with still arriving reinforcements.
> 
> This is surreal.
> 
> @jhungary I think its nuts


Yes it is


beijingwalker said:


> China knows so well how to deal US trade and economic wars, we are so experienced in dealing with them.


That did not answer my question tho.

But all in all good luck, don't let the inflation bite.


----------



## Paul2

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498172636647641088



Theya are finally moving both in the north, and the south.

This is what they were waiting for.

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## RescueRanger

terry5 said:


> Nigeria condemns treatment of Africans trying to flee Ukraine​Government says citizens are being denied entry into Poland amid growing reports of discrimination
> 
> Russia-Ukraine crisis – live news
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emmanuel Akinwotu and Weronika Strzyżyńska
> Mon 28 Feb 2022 17.46 GMT
> 
> 
> 
> The Nigerian government has condemned the treatment of thousands of its students and citizens fleeing the war in Ukraine, amid growing concerns that African students are facing discrimination by security officials and being denied entry into Poland.
> A deluge of reports and footage posted on social media in the past week has shown acts of discrimination and violence against African, Asian and Caribbean citizens – many of them studying in Ukraine – while fleeing Ukrainian cities and at some of the country’s border posts
> 
> They are among hundreds of thousands of people trying to escape the country as civilian casualties and destruction mount.
> 
> More than half a million people have fled Ukraine since the Russian invasion began last week, according to the UN’s refugee agency, UNHCR.
> 
> The Nigerian president, Muhammadu Buhari, said on Monday: “All who flee a conflict situation have the same right to safe passage under UN convention and the colour of their passport or their skin should make no difference,” citing reports that Ukrainian police had obstructed Nigerians.
> 
> “From video evidence, first-hand reports, and from those in contact with ... Nigerian consular officials, there have been unfortunate reports of Ukrainian police and security personnel refusing to allow Nigerians to board buses and trains heading towards Ukraine-Poland border,” he said.
> 
> “One group of Nigerian students having been repeatedly refused entry into Poland have concluded they have no choice but to travel again across Ukraine and attempt to exit the country via the border with Hungary.”
> 
> Nigeria’s special adviser to the president on diaspora affairs, Abike Dabiri-Erewa, said: “Africans are being denied entry through the Ukrainian borders. The minister of foreign affairs, Geoffrey Onyeama, has taken this up with the Ukrainian ambassador. Our people who want to leave must be allowed to.”
> 
> Amid chaotic and emotional scenes at Ukraine’s borders with Poland, as well as Romania and Belarus, where a number of African governments have advised citizens to head to, the treatment of African and Asian people has caused outrage.
> 
> Many African students have condemned the difficulties they have faced trying to escape the conflict, reporting hostility from security forces, ordinary Ukrainians and border staff.
> 
> Samuel George, a 22-year-old Nigerian software engineering student, drove from Kyiv, along with four of his friends, fellow students from Nigeria and South Africa, to the Polish border. Queues of cars full of people trying to leave spanned 31 miles (50km) to the border. Yet when some men who were in the queue noticed they were Africans, he said, they stopped their vehicle.
> 
> “They immediately saw that the Ukrainians could pass but when they realised we weren’t Ukrainians they stopped it. They told us we couldn’t move forward and wouldn’t let us join the queue,” George said.
> 
> When they tried to defy them, he said the men attacked and vandalised their windscreen. “They demanded $500 – we begged and negotiated to pay $100. We had to leave the car and trek. We were walking for almost five hours to the border with Poland. One of us was sick. The temperature was freezing, it was so tough
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nigeria condemns treatment of Africans trying to flee Ukraine
> 
> 
> Government says citizens’ access to Polish border impeded amid growing reports of discrimination
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com


The way African students and nationals have been treated is abhorrent and requires attention:

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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> You do know that foreign exchange is mostly used for foreign trade, not domestic trade, don't you? How much of that 1.4 trillion economy engages in foreign trade?


No, foreign currency is used to balance Federal or Central Bank. That is used to "Guarantee" the value of your own currency.

Read this





__





Foreign exchange reserves - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## dBSPL

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498354524498677764
> This video has allegedly been filmed by Russian forces in Talakivka 15Km from Mariupol.
> 
> *47.18519172409511, 37.72457192254352*
> View attachment 819614


The army of a country like Russia that can actually follow up on open intelligence very well; If they can't even prevent their soldiers from posting stories on Instagram and making videos on Tiktok in the most critical military operation in their history, there's something really wrong here.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498172640716017672

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## QWECXZ

jhungary said:


> I think you don't understand what I wrote, I never said US back Russian Central Bank, I said US Dollars. Because Central bank have different kind of currency to balance the debt of its own currency. Problem is, rouble is now deflated almost 30% toward the USD. Which mean to prop up the currency, the foreign reserve have to exchange to Rouble, but how? Russia has been taken out of SWIFT, US are no longer trading with Russia (Due to sanction) the only one that can do it is China, so yes, dump it on China.
> 
> Okay, now you dumped 300 billion on China, to balance your own currency, now what? The only way Russian Central Bank can issue new debt to clean out the currency demand is issue Rouble Bond, which, again worth nothing, you cannot get USD, GBP, Euro, JPY (Which is the top 4 world reserve by the way, account for 90% of world currency) which mean you no longer able to balance your own reserve, the only option left is Russia buy a lot of Yuan, but how? Rouble worth nothing to CNY, 1 Rouble is 0.05 Yuan as of now. So You either dump a lot of rouble to exchange with Yuan, which inflate your own currency, or you have China loan you the money.
> 
> But how much do you think China can loan you the money? You are talking about Russia, a 1.4 trillion economy, without 90% of world currency, your sole trader is Yuan, are you supposed to have China print 1.4 trillions dollar worth of Yuan to support you? Because, honestly that is what I am foreseeing Russia need to do to stay afloat.


The US dollar is printed by the Federal Reserve. So, when you mention the US dollar, you are referring to the US as well.

That's exactly why I said that a country's currency depends on its ability to pay back with goods (and services). Russia can clear its debt by providing goods and services. It doesn't need to switch to any other currency because it is a major power which is self-sufficient in nearly everything. Russia produces 12 million barrels of oil per day. It controls nearly 40% of the world's gas reserves. It is a major nuclear power that is ranked 4th in the world in electricity production and is believed to be the 1st in the number of nuclear warheads. That's what I meant when I said Russia is an energy super power. It is one of the world's major producers of agricultural products, usually in top 5. It is believed to be the world's 2nd most powerful army. It is the second country in the world in freshwater resources. Do I need to continue?

Many countries would accept to be paid back in these goods and services instead of the US dollar. Iran for one would be more than happy to continue trading with Russia. I'm sure many other countries will do the same. If Russia actually occupies Ukraine, the breadbasket of Europe, many Middle Eastern and North African countries will be forced to trade with Russia, including the US allies in the Middle East.

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## kursed

If our folks at the helm are watching this, I sure as hell hope they watch what happens when a nation loses air superiority over its own skies. And thus allocate funds a tad more judicially. =)


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498379877187309569

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## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> But all in all good luck, don't let the inflation bite.


China's inflation is 1%, US inflation is 7.5%, who should worry?









U.S. inflation rate climbs to 7.5% after another sharp increase in consumer prices


The rate of U.S. inflation climbed again in January to 7.5% and stayed at a 40-year high, suggesting upward pressure on consumer prices is unlikely to relent...




www.marketwatch.com

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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> "The US is joined by some European nations and Canada to remove certain Russian banks from SWIFT, the payment system used for most international financial transactions.
> 
> *The move is “unprecedentedly severe,” but is unlikely to deal a fatal blow against Russia, not only because of the latter’s long preparation but also its hard-to-replace economic value to the West, particularly Europe, China’s state-run Global Times reported.*"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China opposes US, EU sanctions against Russia; says will carry out normal trade with Moscow
> 
> 
> Beijing, Feb 28 (PTI) China, a close ally of Russia, said on Monday that it was opposed to illegal unilateral sanctions and will continue to carry out normal trade cooperation with Moscow, as the US, EU and their allies stepped up punitive measures against Russia, including the interbank...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theprint.in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next time, check your facts. When Putin was asked before this war what he'll do when US and its ally sanction him, he's stated, "US sanctions is something we learned to live with".


That is SWIFT, not the Russian Central Bank deal tho......

SWIFT is not really a problem seeing there are not much trade from Russia any way and they did not block Gazprombank from SWIFT, which mean at least for now, the Gas/Oil Trade in Russia is safe. 

For now.

And I did check my fact, you are quoting the wrong fact...

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> No, foreign currency is used to balance Federal or Central Bank. That is used to "Guarantee" the value of your own currency.
> 
> Read this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign exchange reserves - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


You don't really need foreign currency to serve as the reserve in order to back its own currency. China does that because it wants to maintain advantageous rate with US dollar. Russia, on the other hand, has more gold reserve than China has, though its economy is only a fraction of the Chinese.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498104674397966337


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## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> China's inflation is 1%, US inflation is 7.5%, who should worry?


If you pick up Russian tab, it will not be 1%.

Again, good luck if you think you can really do it.


----------



## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> Again, I am not saying that you are wrong.
> 
> I am saying this is the current Economic Sanction going to lead. I mean unless I am mistaken something, this is what the West is trying to do, maybe they want to trigger a nuclear attack? I don't know, but what I do know is the current sanction is to taking Russian Currency away, I mean, there are no other effect other than making Russian Bank failed to raise money.
> 
> Again, or am I missing something here?


Sanctions on Russia are extremely harsh, but not harsh enough to push its currency to extinction.

The worst time after WWII for Russians was most probably 90s, when there was no bread or milk available in markets and Ruble traded like 1:10000 or something.

This time around:
1) Germany and some other key EU countries are dependent upto 55% of their gas on Russia. As of today the gas supply to those countries has not stopped, in fact as we speak, it is still being pumped. And I am very sure, it is not a freebie. 

2) After the initial shock has been absorbed, arrangements made with China will ensure that Russian economy does not reach the point of extinction.

3) Being the 2nd largest power in the world, does give you some sort of leverage to challenge the sanctions. Who is gonna stop Russian shipments to potential buyers in international waters as is the case with Iran, NK etc, for example?

I am no economist by any means, it is just a subjective opinion that Russian economy can absorb these sanctions. They are simply not harsh enough.

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## Deino

Interesting report ...  

Russia's state news agency RIA published an article early on Saturday celebrating Russia's quick victory over Ukraine. Putin is praised there for having restored the "unity of Russia" by defeating Ukraine. The article was obviously prepared in case of the expected quick victory - and then published by mistake. The article was then removed from the web again, but can still be accessed in web archives. 









Kommentar in Staatsmedium: Russische Nachrichtenagentur feiert irrtümlich Sieg


Eine staatliche russische Nachrichtenagentur veröffentlicht irrtümlicherweise einen Siegeskommentar. Russlands Führung rechnete offenbar mit einem raschen Sieg.




www.faz.net







> "Russia is restoring its unity," writes Akopov, referring to the Soviet Union, whose borders Putin has repeatedly described as "historic Russia." The "tragedy of 1991", the collapse of the Soviet Union, was "overcome. Yes, at a high price, yes, about the tragic events of a de facto civil war, because brothers are still shooting at each other,” writes Akopov, apparently as a safeguard in the event that individual Ukrainians should still resist. "But Ukraine as an anti-Russian country will no longer exist," it says, using a quote from Putin that is often used among Moscow's elite.

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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> You don't really need foreign currency to serve as the reserve in order to back its own currency. China does that because it wants to maintain advantageous rate with US dollar. Russia, on the other hand, has more gold reserve than China has, though its economy is only a fraction of the Chinese.


Russia only have 150 billions of gold. That's not even half of what they have in Central Bank. This is going to go in no time.

And you need foreign currency to balance your own currency, this has been done in EVERYCOUNTRY, China included. Of the 3 Trillion Chinese surplus, 1.4 Trillions is US Dollar. within that 1.07 are US T-Bond.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

This woman almost started WW3.. She is Aziqbal's half-sister. She is very aggressive British empire believer.. She said something that could be translated into lets smash putin inside Ukraine which lead to Russia activating the nuclear deterence. Honestly this was not her only hotheaded comment but she has been one of the most aggressive individuals in this whole crisis including Boris Johnson who is also Aziqbal another half-brother.. I gotta admit all 3 are hilarious.. Boris Johnson technically deep down somehow wants to fight Russia in the endgame in eastern europe in his mind his James bond

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## terry5

RescueRanger said:


> The way African students and nationals have been treated is abhorrent and requires attention:



They (the whiteman) will rescue the dogs before them
Unfortunately it is true
Dogs have more rights than black / brown in western utopia .

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## LeGenD

Thinker3 said:


> When Putin ordered his Nuclear forces to be ready he cited two reasons one of them being sanctions. Russia is not Iran, North Korea, or Venezuela, what will happen if a person who has many enemies is brought to a point where he will have to commit suicide? how will that person commit suicide? he will take his gun and kill as many enemies as he can before he dies. The biggest mistake west has done and is doing is that they are treating Russia as an ordinary country, which Russia is not.


You are taking Russian nuclear posturing too seriously. Relax.









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


There is a clear differ3nce between Ukraine, and NATO. And economic meltdown won't trigger the Russians to declare war on NATO. They'll instead look to China to save their economy. NATO has now seen what Russia is capable of, and its not impressed. Look like others are not impressed by NATO...



defence.pk

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## Ali_Baba

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498374225358462982



Wow - was that inside Russia ? If so - good on Ukraine. I am suprised they still have so many Bayraktar left!

Ukraine must be getting top-ups for sure for these drones!

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> Russia only have 150 billions of gold. That's not even half of what they have in Central Bank. This is going to go in no time.
> 
> And you need foreign currency to balance your own currency, this has been done in EVERYCOUNTRY, China included. Of the 3 Trillion Chinese surplus, 1.4 Trillions is US Dollar. within that 1.2 are US T-Bond.


No, you don't. You only need foreign currency to back your debts in foreign currency. Don't let the common practice blind you to think that is the only practice.

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498384752805662723

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## maverick1977

jhungary said:


> That mean 54% are overseas,,,,,,,
> 
> That mean the number is around $300 billions, and once that gone, that's gone. They can't make anymore,


Yes its frozen, and cant be transacted back to Russia, as SWIFT is not working for transfers and US banks or allied banks are not allowed to tranfer back to Russian central bank of to russian banks..

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## Hassan Al-Somal

beijingwalker said:


> True, I agree it's not a smart move, Putin should be better than this. I admit that I didn't expect Russia would really launch a full scale war.



I think they chose Ukraine to set an example to other countries who border with Russia that you buddy buddy with the West against Russia, you know what the consequences are.

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## dBSPL

Heartbreaking for Russian taxpayers

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498249867054960641

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## kingQamaR

China let Russia test the waters first, to see how the world would respond. I think they'll hold off for a bit. They like their money too much.

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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> Sanctions on Russia are extremely harsh, but not harsh enough to push its currency to extinction.
> 
> The worst time after WWII for Russians was most probably 90s, when there was no bread or milk available in markets and Ruble traded like 1:10000 or something.
> 
> This time around:
> 1) Germany and some other key EU countries are dependent upto 55% of their gas on Russia. As of today the gas supply to those countries has not stopped, in fact as we speak, it is still being pumped. And I am very sure, it is not a freebie.
> 
> 2) After the initial shock has been absorbed, arrangements made with China will ensure that Russian economy does not reach the point of extinction.
> 
> 3) Being the 2nd largest power in the world, does give you some sort of leverage to challenge the sanctions. Who is gonna stop Russian shipments to potential buyers in international waters as is the case with Iran, NK etc, for example?
> 
> I am no economist by any means, it is just a subjective opinion that Russian economy can absorb these sanctions. They are simply not harsh enough.


1.) EU also issue a Transaction Ban. Which mean they probably can't buy Russia gas/oil from now on (Will need to check the exemption list) 

2.) This is going to be on-going, because you need to guarantee your currency every year, unless the US and EU lifted the sanction, this is going to be ongoing, Russia will not be able to buy USD/GBP/EURO/JPY this year, they will not going to buy them next year unless the sanction is lifted.

3.) That does not mean anything. IT's not like you can force the west to do business with you despite the sanction because you are number 2 largest power. This is why even people in the west find it unbelievable.

And i Can tell you that even now, their everything is crashing, people are lining up in queue on bank, stock market close, bank close. And SWIFT has been taken out means they cannot transfer and receive funding. Russia technically can use CIPS but it's 80 institution vs 11,000 in SWIFT. Go Figure....


----------



## TheNoob

Deino said:


> Interesting report ...
> 
> Russia's state news agency RIA published an article early on Saturday celebrating Russia's quick victory over Ukraine. Putin is praised there for having restored the "unity of Russia" by defeating Ukraine. The article was obviously prepared in case of the expected quick victory - and then published by mistake. The article was then removed from the web again, but can still be accessed in web archives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kommentar in Staatsmedium: Russische Nachrichtenagentur feiert irrtümlich Sieg
> 
> 
> Eine staatliche russische Nachrichtenagentur veröffentlicht irrtümlicherweise einen Siegeskommentar. Russlands Führung rechnete offenbar mit einem raschen Sieg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.faz.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 819615



Sounds like total bullsh*t lol


----------



## RescueRanger

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> lol
> 
> Putin stripped of honorary taekwondo black belt​The World Taekwondo Federation had presented the item to Putin in 2013
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.rt.com/sport/550885-putin-black-belt-taekwondo/


As a fellow martial artist I think this was petty and virtue signaling but that's just me.

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## nang2

kingQamaR said:


> China let Russia test the waters first, to see how the world would respond. I think they'll hold off for a bit. They like their money too much.


Why would China use its money anyway? They can trade supplies with Russian oil/gas, grains and gold. No money is involved. It is not like Russia hasn't done that before. Lenin sent lots of gold to US/UK to pay back the support from their financiers.

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## dBSPL

This is surreal...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498242286848778240

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## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> It's true everyone hurts, but US will suffer way more than China. China is not dependent on anyone, we have a full complete supply chain which no other countries on this planet does.


Dude, this is not a US vs China thing, this is a US/EU vs Russia.

Why would US be hurting when they have 60 billions trade with Russia.......I mean, if you want to take the debt from Russia, you are welcome, but you are not hurting US for taking the debt form Russia......US will still only lose what they would have trade with Russia anyway.

Unless I missed that China declare a trade war with US? Did I?

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## Mujahid Memon

Foinikas said:


> Have you guys seen that?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian fighters grease bullets against Chechens with pig fat
> 
> 
> Video shared by National Guard of Ukraine shows Azov fighters dipping bullets to be used on Chechen fighters in pig fat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com


OMG evil Ukrainians killing Muslims with haram pig fat bullets while holy Russians blessed Syrians and Chechens with halal cow fat bombs.



dBSPL said:


> This is surreal...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498242286848778240


Civilians minding their business as its just a normal day


----------



## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> Dude, this is not a US vs China thing, this is a US/EU vs Russia.
> 
> Why would US be hurting when they have 60 billions trade with Russia.......I mean, if you want to take the debt from Russia, you are welcome, but you are not hurting US for taking the debt form Russia......US will still only lose what they would have trade with Russia anyway.
> 
> Unless I missed that China declare a trade war with US? Did I?


US also believed that they can easily beat China in a trade war, over 4 years passed, did you see the result?

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## jhungary

maverick1977 said:


> Yes its frozen, and cant be transacted back to Russia, as SWIFT is not working for transfers and US banks or allied banks are not allowed to tranfer back to Russian central bank of to russian banks..


Yeah, this is what the other people do not get.....

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## beijingwalker

Russia boasts the world richest natural resouces which every country covets, in the long run, the world needs Russia more than Russia needs the rest of the world, EU now is trying to hurt Russia by killing itself, it's rather stupid.

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## hussain0216

Mujahid Memon said:


> Eat popcorn before you become a popcorn



Watching Nazis be killed in Ukraine should make everyone happy 😁

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## dBSPL

*BREAKING: Turkey instructs all countries not to send warships through Istanbul and Çanakkale Straits





*

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## Mujahid Memon

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498365850839138313


What was that?


----------



## tower9

Vergennes said:


> LMAO the Russians are literally calling the Ukrainians to renounce to their independence and means of national defense,no sane country would accept such "demands". How is it in Russia's business if Ukraine wants to look to the west instead of east ?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498332884121399307



The same situation would apply if Mexico was getting into a military alliance with Russia and China and those countries were controlling Mexican politicians and launching attacks against American citizens there. Do you think the US would tolerate that for one day? I don't think so. Ukraine has a very large and powerful neighbor, it needs to accept its geopolitical realities instead of playing suicidal games designed by Zionist scum.

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## HttpError

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> This woman almost started WW3.. She is Aziqbal's half-sister. She is very aggressive British empire believer.. She said something that could be translated into lets smash putin inside Ukraine which lead to Russia activating the nuclear deterence. Honestly this was not her only hotheaded comment but she has been one of the most aggressive individuals in this whole crisis including Boris Johnson who is also Aziqbal another half-brother.. I gotta admit all 3 are hilarious.. Boris Johnson technically deep down somehow wants to fight Russia in the endgame in eastern europe in his mind his James bond



We all miss @aziziqbal

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## Ali_Baba

dBSPL said:


> *BREAKING: Turkey instructs all countries not to send warships through Bosporus and Dardanelles Straits*



Good !!!! About time I think - but glad it has happened.

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## jhungary

tower9 said:


> The same situation would apply if Mexico was getting into a military alliance with Russia and China and those countries were controlling Mexican politicians and launching attacks against American citizens there. Do you think the US would tolerate that for one day? I don't think so. Ukraine has a very large and powerful neighbor, it needs to accept its geopolitical realities instead of playing suicidal games designed by Zionist scum.


Don't know about Mexico, but I am pretty sure Cuba is being very cosy with Russia, and they are 90 miles off Florida.

So when did I expect the US launch an invasion?


----------



## Invicta

jhungary said:


> Dude, this is not a US vs China thing, this is a US/EU vs Russia.
> 
> Why would US be hurting when they have 60 billions trade with Russia.......I mean, if you want to take the debt from Russia, you are welcome, but you are not hurting US for taking the debt form Russia......US will still only lose what they would have trade with Russia anyway.
> 
> Unless I missed that China declare a trade war with US? Did I?


This guy is troll numero uno from China, everything is vs China and nothing beats China - I wouldn't waste my time on him.

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## Inception-06

Desert Fox 1 said:


> _"Logistics is an unglamorous and underappreciated exercise. To be generalized, when the battle is going well the tacticians and strategists ate lionised; it is only when tanks run out of gas that people go head-hunting for the logisticians."_



To address one more things or Something which Pakistan military must notice closely by observing this war:

Evacuation and first aid of wounded is neglected if it’s done then not worthy to speak about it, this have a negatively impacts on the moral and motivation of the Russian soldiers. . ….No air lift of wounded, scarcely collection of death body’s. Nor attempts to recover stucked, damaged or destroyed vehicles. This two aspect are not par with NATO standards. The Russians are only great in parading and barking, they should have not chosen the war path.

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> Don't know about Mexico, but I am pretty sure Cuba is being very cosy with Russia, and they are 90 miles off Florida.
> 
> So when did I expect the US launch an invasion?


You didn't know the cuba missile crisis?

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## jhungary

Invicta said:


> This guy is troll numero uno from China, everything is vs China and nothing beats China - I wouldn't waste my time on him.


I know, I am just having fun on him.

I don't know, I feel some kind of jolt when he queam.......

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## The SC

Paul2 said:


> Theya are finally moving both in the north, and the south.
> 
> This is what they were waiting for.


They might be slow..but they are heavyweight..

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## Thinker3

LeGenD said:


> You are taking Russian nuclear posturing too seriously. Relax.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> There is a clear differ3nce between Ukraine, and NATO. And economic meltdown won't trigger the Russians to declare war on NATO. They'll instead look to China to save their economy. NATO has now seen what Russia is capable of, and its not impressed. Look like others are not impressed by NATO...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


No one thought a war of this scale is possible in Europe in the 21st century, but it is happening, if the west will take Nuclear threat lightly and continue to push Russia against the wall then it can lead to Nuclear exchange.

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## Invicta

jhungary said:


> I know, I am just having fun on him.
> 
> *I don't know, I feel some kind of jolt when he queam.......*


I know the feeling...


----------



## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> I know, I am just having fun on him.
> 
> I don't know, I feel some kind of jolt when he queam.......


LoL, It seems the feeling is mutual, I really enjoy to see your squeal.

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## dBSPL

Ali_Baba said:


> Good !!!! About time I think - but glad it has happened.


This decision is technically in Russia's favor.

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## tower9

beijingwalker said:


> Russia boasts the world richest natural resouces which every country covets, in the long run, the world needs Russia more than Russia needs the rest of the world, EU now is trying to hurt Russia by killing itself, it's rather stupid.



That's why these sanctions they are applying are a joke. Because the EU has far more to lose. 

The Euros are dependent little puppies being manipulated by the US/Globo-zion to commit ritual suicide for their masters' interests. Europe is in rapid decline and this situation will only accelerate it.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498381975022940167

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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> You didn't know the cuba missile crisis?


I am sorry, did US invaded Cuba during Cuban Missile Crisis?

And do you know the Spanish Phase "nunca olvidados"?

Ask any Cuba about that? They will all say "When is Russia going to pay me back for the money I lost during Sanction?"

There is a reason why Cuban Missile Crisis happened 50 years ago and never happened again.

By the way, the Phase is Never Forget, Russia owe us money.


----------



## beijingwalker

tower9 said:


> That's why these sanctions they are applying are a joke. Because the EU has far more to lose.
> 
> The Euros are dependent little puppies being manipulated by the US/Globo-zion to commit ritual suicide for their masters' interests. Europe is in rapid decline and this situation will only accelerate it.


Very true, EU is the biggest loser in the long run.

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> I am sorry, did US invaded Cuba during Cuban Missile Crisis?
> 
> And do you know the Spanish Phase "nunca olvidados"?
> 
> Ask any Cuba about that? They will all say "When is Russia going to pay me back for the money I lost during Sanction?"
> 
> There is a reason why Cuban Missile Crisis happened 50 years ago and never happened again.
> 
> By the way, the Phase is Never Forget, Russia owe us money.


It is probably worse than invasion. Forget Cuba. It was at the brink of open conflict with Soviet.


----------



## HaMoTZeMaS

This event seems to have triggered two things
1
the process of realizing an alternate system threatening Petro dollar

2
forcing the rest of the world to realize the hypocrisy of White skins and its hitting the subconsciousness of people who have the slaved mindset towards west

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498381591306981379
NBC warmonger Richard Engel is calling for World War III.

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## Falcon29

Mujahid Memon said:


> What was that?


She burnt herself while trying to throw Molotov at Russian military vehicle.

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## Bilal.

jhungary said:


> I am sorry, did US invaded Cuba during Cuban Missile Crisis?
> 
> And do you know the Spanish Phase "nunca olvidados"?
> 
> Ask any Cuba about that? They will all say "When is Russia going to pay me back for the money I lost during Sanction?"
> 
> There is a reason why Cuban Missile Crisis happened 50 years ago and never happened again.
> 
> By the way, the Phase is Never Forget, Russia owe us money.


Bay of pigs?

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## Hydration

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498381591306981379


yeah they will pass it its isnt even a question

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## tower9

HaMoTZeMaS said:


> This event seems to have triggered two things
> 1
> the process of realizing an alternate system threatening Petro dollar
> 
> 2
> forcing the rest of the world to realize the hypocrisy of White skins and its hitting the subconsciousness of people who have the slaved mindset towards west


These subservient peoples have short memories. Their servitude to Whites are strongly ingrained in their programming. They will forget once this is over.

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## Invicta

This V22 Just came alive off the coast of Norwich - I am guessing there is CVN operating in those waters.


----------



## jhungary

nang2 said:


> It is probably worse than invasion. Forget Cuba. It was at the brink of open conflict with Soviet.


Well, but it didn't and again, people in Cuba ask Russia when are they going to pay back the money? They promised...


beijingwalker said:


> LoL, It seems the feeling is mutual, I really enjoy to see your squeal.


Lol, glad that I am entertaining, I don't mind you enjoy seeing me squeal, as long as I make money off the Chinese.

just give me more, MORE. I say,

Seriously tho, please do let me know what you guys ban next, I am going to town in the stockmarket,


----------



## Hydration

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498365850839138313


bruh we will seeing a rise in civie cassulties


----------



## Mujahid Memon

Falcon29 said:


> She burnt herself while trying to throw Molotov at Russian military vehicle.


That Russian mil didn't do nothing?


----------



## nang2

jhungary said:


> Well, but it didn't and again, people in Cuba ask Russia when are they going to pay back the money? They promised...


You might as well just say it was not a crisis since it didn't happen.


----------



## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> 1.) EU also issue a Transaction Ban. Which mean they probably can't buy Russia gas/oil from now on (Will need to check the exemption list)



There is no quick alternative for gas shipments for Germany or some other EU countries who are dependent on it. Even the EU president was mentioning today the price EU will have to pay for the sanctions.

There is no disputing the fact that the sanctions are one of the harshest we have seen. But will they bring Russians to their knees, say in a year? I seriously doubt that! And there is no way this conflict and sanctions can continue for more than a year without a major war.

And the world is not just West, Japan or Australia. There are dozens of other countries who are neutral and need energy and ready to pay for it with alternative means.

I just hope this ends in couple of weeks and some acceptable solution for all involved is found!

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498370621826338817

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## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> No problem, China makes more money, we've got nothing to complain.


Then that's WIn-Win LOL


----------



## TheNoob

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498370621826338817



Not really easy to spot or hunt down irregulars in urban areas. 
So that's a pass.


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

Most definitely, I refuse to believe that TB2 is so potent that they can't even manage to stop such incursions. We have also seen lack of deployment of ADs for convoys. And where we have seen deployment.... It seems that the platforms are non-operational.

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## Ali_Baba

dBSPL said:


> This decision is technically in Russia's favor.



They keep their advantage - yes - but they cannot resupply easily or add reinforcements or refresh they deployments with fresh replacement ships etc.

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## Hydration

ive seen so many vids of civillians either throwing molotovs or rpgs on veichles cant blame the rise in civie cassulties in the next 2 days

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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> There is no quick alternative for gas shipments for Germany or some other EU countries who are dependent on it. Even the EU president was mentioning today the price EU will have to pay for the sanctions.
> 
> There is no disputing the fact that the sanctions are one of the harshest we have seen. But will they bring Russians to their knees, say in a year? I seriously doubt that! And there is no way this conflict and sanctions can continue for more than a year without a major war.
> 
> And the world is not just West, Japan or Australia. There are dozens of other countries who are neutral and need energy and ready to pay for it with alternative means.
> 
> I just hope this ends in couple of weeks and some acceptable solution for all involved is found!


It may have been a problem 3 months ago, Europe are now in Spring, the need for Gas is not that urgent. Europe have 6-9 months to switch, And there are 3 candidate, form Middle East, North Sea Oil/Gas Field, and US/Canada. All ready to go.

Problem is, sanction will last after the war. As I said, until it was lifted, and I doubt they will be lifted after the war, especially if Russia win, which is very probable.

But then tell me who can buy as much as US, UK,EU, Australia, Japan, South Korea, Singapore et al? Market wise, that's 70% of market right there. I am pretty sure Russia can find some African country or the Usual CAS country to shred some burden but they are no way spending like US, UK and EU et el.



beijingwalker said:


> China doesn't care about side shows, her sight is always on the big picture.


While I had fun with you, but maybe we should stop talking China, this thread is NOT about China. Well, you can make it into your business, but this is not about China, so maybe we should move on and don't be so self-centred, The world does not turn around China.

And most certainly not this war.


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Hydration said:


> ive seen so many vids of civillians either throwing molotovs or rpgs on veichles cant blame the rise in civie cassulties in the next 2 days



That is why Russia ordered civilians to exit Kyiv meaning whomever remains there after may become a potential military target.. But either way I don't see Kyiv falling atleast until months later


----------



## beijingwalker

Europe Faces Harsh Reality of Finding Russian Gas Irreplaceable​
Diverting LNG may spread crisis to Asia: BCS Global Markets
Russia can’t be replaced by one supplier unilaterally: Qatar
ByAnna Shiryaevskaya
and Isis Almeida
February 2, 2022, 5:52 PM GMT+8

Energy-rich countries from Qatar to Azerbaijan have all pledged emergency gas supplies to Europe, but the region is quickly figuring out it can’t replace top supplier Russia.

Ongoing tensions over Ukraine and the threat of a potential conflict interrupting energy flows to Europe have overshadowed the continent’s gas market in recent weeks, causing volatile price swings. War could interfere with the massive volumes that Russia sends to the continent, about a third of which come through Ukraine.

To mitigate the risk of supply disruption, the European Union is speaking with major producers, seeking partnerships and even potential fuel swaps with Asia, where the market is twice the size of the bloc’s. Recent arrivals of liquefied natural gas have helped to ease tightness, as has mild weather, but Europe relies on Russia for more than a third of the gas it uses, and sourcing that fuel from elsewhere could spread the crisis to other regions.

“Europe has no alternative to Russian gas,” said BCS Global Markets Senior Analyst Ron Smith. “You would have to divert half of the LNG that Asia consumes in order to replace Gazprom PJSC. And what would that mean? That would mean massive energy shortages all across Asia, you would export Europe’s energy crisis to Asia.”







Supply Diversions​The volume of gas the EU needs can’t be replaced by any one supplier unilaterally without disturbing deliveries to other regions, Qatar’s energy minister Saad Al-Kaabi said Tuesday after a call with the bloc’s Commissioner for Energy Kadri Simson.

He added that Doha’s supply contracts are “sacrosanct in Qatar,” and the nation’s priority is to fulfill the needs of its existing customers first. Guaranteeing Europe’s energy security will require a collective effort from a number of different suppliers, he said.

For any prolonged disruption lasting through next two winters, Europe would have to curb demand, researchers at the Brussels-based Bruegel think tank said in a blog. And that uncertainty is likely to keep prices high as competition for LNG intensifies.

“As long as the situation in Ukraine is unclear and unresolved, European buyers will be willing to pay enough to attract flexible LNG cargoes to make sure inventories do not run dry,” said Oystein Kalleklev, chief executive officer of LNG shipowner Flex LNG Ltd.

Because gas infrastructure is expensive, most of the world’s volumes are typically sold under long-term contracts between sellers and buyers. Flexible deliveries from the U.S. could help, but only if the price is right.


The U.S. was the biggest LNG supplier to Europe last month and, together with other nations, helped displace Russian gas supply by a few percentage points in January, according to senior European Commission officials.

But that isn’t guaranteed to last. Europe has been the most profitable region to send the super-chilled fuel to since the end of last year but usually it’s Asia, the world’s fastest-growing market. If China’s appetite for gas re-awakens, tankers will be quick to abandon Europe and head eastward.

Filling the Gap​Meanwhile, Gazprom’s daily gas exports via pipeline plunged to its most important markets in January, to the lowest since early 2015, despite the company producing more of the fuel.

On the EU’s radar is also Azerbaijan, the Caspian nation that started sending gas to Europe at the end of 2020. Its deliveries to Europe, Turkey and Georgia are about a 10th of volumes Gazprom sells to its main export markets, and that supply was pre-sold almost a decade ago to help finance production and pipelines.

“Reality is Azerbaijan is not a competitor to Russian gas simply because of the volumes,” Elin Suleymanov, the nation’s ambassador to the U.K., said in an interview last week. “We could help with some deliveries but Azerbaijan volumes are not equal to the Russian volumes, that’s obvious. That’s something which also needs to be thought of by our Western partners.”

For now, Europe relies on the LNG that’s been arriving at its shores, helping to ease high prices. By May, Asia is set to regain its spot as a premium export market for U.S. cargoes of the fuel, according to BloombergNEF calculations.

“This idea that ‘we will fill the gap with LNG’, no, you can’t. It’s physically impossible to do, there’s not enough LNG in the world to do that,” Smith said.









Europe Faces Harsh Reality of Finding Russian Gas Irreplaceable


Energy-rich countries from Qatar to Azerbaijan have all pledged emergency gas supplies to Europe, but the region is quickly figuring out it can’t replace top supplier Russia.




www.bloomberg.com

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## Falcon29

Mujahid Memon said:


> That Russian mil didn't do nothing?



No, they must have orders not to do anything about that because it is civilians throwing them. And I doubt such a thing can take out an armored vehicle like that. If it was in Palestine the Israeli's would have shot and killed everyone. Even if you tossed one across an empty street that hits nothing.

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## vizier

kursed said:


> If our folks at the helm are watching this, I sure as hell hope they watch what happens when a nation loses air superiority over its own skies. And thus allocate funds a tad more judicially. =)
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498379877187309569


Ukraine although having lost most of its airforce is possibly using makeshift runways to launch drones. Mobile ads is prone to small medium altitude armed uavs like TB2 this is proven again. They are almost undetectable. Russia cant provide fighter aircraft coverage for a whole area continiously. They are too fast to provide continious support against an undetected target. Most drones also dont have a2a capability if Russia does the same using makeshift runways and launch their own drones. It seems they didnt even calculate the drones again which had many successes against its systems over and over again. If they planned it like a ww2 style armed column attack they had to use piston engine ww2 style fighters that can land almost anywhere to provide continious coverage.

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## nang2

TheNoob said:


> Not really easy to spot or hunt down irregulars in urban areas.
> So that's a pass.


It works as a double-edge sword. If guerrilla warfare can turn the tide, all is well. It could also bring heavier and more cruel retaliation. It happened during China-Vietnam conflict at the end of 70s. There were many Vietnam irregulars who just wore civilian dresses. After got burnt many times, Chinese army retaliated by burning down the entire villages and shooting anything that was suspicious. Unlike US, such things won't be reported.


----------



## Falcon29

Hydration said:


> ive seen so many vids of civillians either throwing molotovs or rpgs on veichles cant blame the rise in civie cassulties in the next 2 days


Molotov's shouldn't do any damage to armored vehicles. It's wrong in my eyes to kill someone over that. Just fire warning shots to scare people away and nothing more. Oddly enough, killing people over molotovs is more of an US/Israeli army thing. It's dehumanizing and criminal.

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## dBSPL

How It Started...

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425105201317437447How It's Going

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498374412717989893

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## Iron Shrappenel

Balance against foreign payments..


jhungary said:


> No, foreign currency is used to balance Federal or Central Bank. That is used to "Guarantee" the value of your own currency.
> 
> Read this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign exchange reserves - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


----------



## jhungary

Bilal. said:


> Bay of pigs?


Umm, we are talking about Cuban Missile Crisis, Bay of Pig happened 1 year before...


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498390073720680454
Other news say: The Russian side described the talks with Ukraine today as positive #Arabic_Urgent https://alarabiya.ne


----------



## Wood

India To Send Humanitarian Aid, Medicines To Ukraine: Centre


Amid the Russia-Ukraine crisis, India will provide humanitarian assistance including medicines to Ukraine, the Ministry of External Affairs said in a press briefing on Monday.




www.ndtv.com


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

dBSPL said:


> Heartbreaking for Russian taxpayers
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498249867054960641


Isn't that a Ukrainian vehicle ?


----------



## Flight of falcon

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498390073720680454
> Other news say: The Russian side described the talks with Ukraine today as positive #Arabic_Urgent https://alarabiya.ne




Who is this idiot wearing a base ball cap??!

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## Ali_Baba

dBSPL said:


> This decision is technically in Russia's favor.



Also it means that no one can send an aircraft carrier or 2 or 3 to that part of the world to help out if they wanted to....


----------



## dBSPL

Iron Shrappenel said:


> Isn't that a Ukrainian vehicle ?


The tractor used by the farmer? Yup. The vehicle he found in his field? No.


----------



## jhungary

nang2 said:


> No, you don't. You only need foreign currency to back your debts in foreign currency. Don't let the common practice blind you to think that is the only practice.


I am pretty sure Foreign Currency is used to back your own currency, I know for a fact that you can't use your own currency to back your own currency, because that does not guarantee your currency value.

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> It may have been a problem 3 months ago, Europe are now in Spring, the need for Gas is not that urgent. Europe have 6-9 months to switch, And there are 3 candidate, form Middle East, North Sea Oil/Gas Field, and US/Canada. All ready to go.


It is still very cold. The cold season lasts well through middle of April and last year the radiators were on till mid of May. And gas not only heats homes up, it cooks my food as well. For now, many countries in EU are hugely dependent on Russian gas, unfortunately.



jhungary said:


> But then tell me who can buy as much as US, UK,EU, Australia, Japan, South Korea, Singapore et al? Market wise, that's 70% of market right there. I am pretty sure Russia can find some African country or the Usual CAS country to shred some burden but they are no way spending like US, UK and EU et el.



err... what about the largest consumers in the world? Alone China, India, Pakistan, Indonesia, Brazil make up roughly half of the world population and they aint taking no sides.

Just to put things into perspective.

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## dBSPL

Ali_Baba said:


> Also it means that no one can send an aircraft carrier or 2 or 3 to that part of the world to help out if they wanted to....


 Dude, could you please read the Montreux Straits Convention?

Aircraft carriers cannot pass through the Straits. (How did China do? The Chinese are smart men. They also know how the trade.)

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## Bilal.

jhungary said:


> Umm, we are talking about Cuban Missile Crisis, Bay of Pig happened 1 year before...


I know. The point is an invasion was attempted. His example was wrong.


----------



## R Wing

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498390073720680454
> Other news say: The Russian side described the talks with Ukraine today as positive #Arabic_Urgent https://alarabiya.ne



There's a guy in a t-shirt and cap. Interesting choice.


----------



## tower9

jhungary said:


> It may have been a problem 3 months ago, Europe are now in Spring, the need for Gas is not that urgent. Europe have 6-9 months to switch, And there are 3 candidate, form Middle East, North Sea Oil/Gas Field, and US/Canada. All ready to go.
> 
> Problem is, sanction will last after the war. As I said, until it was lifted, and I doubt they will be lifted after the war, especially if Russia win, which is very probable.
> 
> But then tell me who can buy as much as US, UK,EU, Australia, Japan, South Korea, Singapore et al? Market wise, that's 70% of market right there. I am pretty sure Russia can find some African country or the Usual CAS country to shred some burden but they are no way spending like US, UK and EU et el.
> 
> 
> While I had fun with you, but maybe we should stop talking China, this thread is NOT about China. Well, you can make it into your business, but this is not about China, so maybe we should move on and don't be so self-centred, The world does not turn around China.
> 
> And most certainly not this war.


Yes, Europe can source gas from other places. At several times the price. It is a world of difference when massive amounts of gas are piped in from a pipeline vs from LNG tankers an ocean away.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498393913689735172

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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> It is still very cold. The cold season lasts well through middle of April and last year the radiators were on till mid of May. And gas not only heats homes up, it cooks my food as well. For now, many countries in EU are hugely dependent on Russian gas, unfortunately.
> 
> 
> 
> err... what about the largest consumers in the world? Alone China, India, Pakistan, Indonesia, Brazil make up roughly half of the world population and they aint taking no sides.
> 
> Just to put things into perspective.


It's not that cold, and it is not going to last that long anyway.

Of all the market you named, only China is a considerable market. All other does not have big enough market to make a different. just because there are a lot of people does not mean it is going to be a big market, otherwise Chinese market would have been bigger than US and EU and Canada combine.



tower9 said:


> Yes, Europe can source gas from other places. At several times the price. It is a world of difference when massive amounts of gas are piped in from a pipeline vs from LNG tankers an ocean away.


Not really that much, I saw a economist article saying it's 50c to 75c more per liter, we are probably paying more now with the Russian suspended production.


----------



## nang2

jhungary said:


> I am pretty sure Foreign Currency is used to back your own currency, I know for a fact that you can't use your own currency to back your own currency, because that does not guarantee your currency value.


1. What backs that foreign currency?
2. Why would I want to use some foreign paper money with funny pictures to back up my own currency?
3. If my own currency is gold or silver, what do I need the foreign currency for?



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498393913689735172


Starlink has very limited capacity. That is why after you subscribe it, you cannot even move to a different address. They need a precise number of subscribers in each location to regulate the capacity.

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## tower9

jhungary said:


> It's not that cold, and it is not going to last that long anyway.
> 
> Of all the market you named, only China is a considerable market. All other does not have big enough market to make a different. just because there are a lot of people does not mean it is going to be a big market, otherwise Chinese market would have been bigger than US and EU and Canada combine.
> 
> 
> Not really that much, I saw a economist article saying it's 50c to 75c more per liter, we are probably paying more now with the Russian suspended production.


Sure. Keep telling yourself that. With the way inflation is headed, I can assure you that it will be far more expensive than expected to source from other countries. Germany knows this and this is why it has been fighting tooth and nail to protect the Nordstream 2 pipeline. I will not be surprised if they resume certification after all this is over.

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## FuturePAF

jamahir said:


> Do you condemn NATO / Western military invasions throughout the world since the end of World War 2 ?
> 
> 
> 
> "Someone" is NATO which will intervene. I heard on an Indian news channel that some European countries ( forgot the names ) are sending more weapons ( vehicles also I think ) to the Ukraine government.
> 
> 
> 
> Right, NATO came into existence on 2022-02-23.
> 
> 
> 
> Zelensky must be asked, how many children in Donetsk, Luhansk etc did his Nazi soldiers kill.
> 
> 
> 
> Dogs are cruel and Zelensky is being cruel. He is unnecessarily subjecting the citizens to war. He should just negotiate with the Russians.
> 
> 
> 
> I read that the Western governments' and Ukraine government's propaganda about the Ukranian military defenders of "Snake island" being killed by the Russians is false. The defenders were actually arrested by the Russians and treated well. There was a vid in this thread yesterday about one of those 83 defenders being shown by the Russians a vid of Zelensky declaring the defenders dead and doing propaganda using their names and that watching Ukranian soldier crying because Zelensky, who they served with their life, is misusing their names for his selfish benefit.
> 
> 
> 
> If the occupiers were American or any other Western military those protestors would have been shot.


IK condemns them when ever asked. That’s what he stands for. As an FYI, He was also against sending troops to Yemen. So as long as it is the IK administration, he can stand by his record. He’s been saying the same thing for decades.

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## sur

*Zelensky releasing criminals (prisoners) to fight Russians*.
Says that prisoners have "*real combat experience*", and prisoners can "*compensate for their guilt*" 

All those KKs he distributed + these the released poisoners could make future post-Russian-withdrawal Ukraine a difficult to manage place.


Russian military head asks citizens to leave the capital Kyiv for the same reason. Promises a safe exit.


*Russia closes air apace for 36 countries* in response to EU closing air space to Russian passenger planes.

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## jhungary

Bilal. said:


> I know. The point is an invasion was attempted. His example was wrong.


Sure,

But if we go pick up every bone and put it into current perspective. I mean when you talk about current event, you don't pull an event happened 60 years ago, you may also claim We are still hostile to Germany because we fought WW2, not that far off either. Just 78 years ago..


----------



## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498397868918456321

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## dBSPL

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498393913689735172


If something is free, you are the product.

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## FuturePAF

jamal18 said:


> Please explain.


Europe has a development plan for spending partially outside of Europe to compete with China. Now that they are ramping up military spending, the money circulate at home, but they will be less prepared to compete with China and the BRI.

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## KAL-EL

Thinker3 said:


> No one thought a war of this scale is possible in Europe in the 21st century, but it is happening, if the west will take Nuclear threat lightly and continue to push Russia against the wall then it can lead to Nuclear exchange.



Then the last thing Putin will be thinking about is Ukraine.

Putin is many things, but suicidal is not one of them.

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## Bilal.

jhungary said:


> Sure,
> 
> But if we go pick up every bone and put it into current perspective. I mean when you talk about current event, you don't pull an event happened 60 years ago, you may also claim We are still hostile to Germany because we fought WW2, not that far off either. Just 78 years ago..


Well Panama and Grenada are more recent examples. Relatively.


----------



## tower9

FuturePAF said:


> Europe has a development plan for spending partially outside of Europe to compete with China. Now that they are ramping up military spending, the money circulate at home, but they will be less prepared to compete with China and the BRI.



I have been to both places several times, China and Europe. I can guarantee you. Europe has no hope of competing with China.

Only the US is still competitive with China, and I see China surpassing the US in most fields within the next decade.

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## OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ

RescueRanger said:


> The way I see it and I may be a crazy old goat for thinking this, but the strategy is to forestall and possibility for Russia to resist pressures in the interim, the best way to do this is to target the finances of the country which has been done very effectively. Russia is bleeding just over 20 Billion USD per day on this misadventure and it has started to hurt.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.rt.com/business/550829-central-bank-steps-up-ruble/
> 
> 
> 
> The sanctions coupled with cessation or suspension of diplomatic ties, restrictions on movement for high net worth citizens with links to the Kremlin are having the desired result, in between all this what you are also seeing are "symbolic" or virtue signaling actions such as removal of Russian vodka from US shelves, blocking Russian social and digital media dissemination/access and indirect pressure on the citizenry of the country.
> 
> View attachment 819567
> View attachment 819569
> 
> 
> The end game here is obvious, create a buffer to the east to deal with the "frozen conflicts" along the V4 countries, Ukraine will act as a buttress against human traffic control and act as the regional doorstop preventing Russian ambitions in the Crimea and Slavic nations. By presenting a united front, the EU get to breathe in life into what was increasingly seen as a lumbering disunified behemoth teetering on its last legs above the chasm of fiscal and political crisis.
> 
> EU especially Germany will seek to end dependency on Russian natural gas and oil in the interim, this also sends a strong message to other producers of oil. In the long run by forestalling the Russian advance and through a very meticulously refined disinformation campaign reduce all support for the Russian state and especially Putin by presenting images of a failed operation, captured or dead Russian soldiers and a graveyard of Russian military hardware essentially demoralizing citizens and supports and emasculating the Russian strong man image globally.
> 
> ^ for more on this visit : https://200rf.com/
> 
> The combined effect of loss of income, economic collapse, restriction on movement, global condemnation, loss of privileges previously enjoyed by the upper echelons of the Kremlin and their cronies will have a trickle down effect on the people, the aim will be to keep squeezing the vice until the Russians will be forced to come back to the negotiation table and the terms will be those set by the west.
> 
> *TLDR: Generally if history has taught us anything it is that sanctions often go hand in hand with regime change. *



I fear that lines are getting blurred... while Russia is using it's coercive power on Ukraine for a certain end... the combined west is using similar coercive power on Russia.
At what point does that cross the line for Russia and the game changes from it having anything to do about the status of Ukraine but about Russia it's resistance and form it takes against west.

What would be that provocation that breaks the camels back? Is the world ready for those repercussions?

Will we even get a warning‽

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## nang2

tower9 said:


> I have been to both places several times, China and Europe. I can guarantee you. Europe has no hope of competing with China.
> 
> Only the US is still competitive with China, and I see China surpassing the US in most fields within the next decade.


If only China doesn't shoot itself in the foot.



OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ said:


> I fear that lines are getting blurred... while Russia is using it's coercive power on Ukraine for a certain end... the combined west is using similar coercive power on Russia.
> At what point does that cross the line for Russia and the game changes from it having anything to do about the status of Ukraine but about Russia and it's resistance and form it takes against west.
> 
> What would be that provocation that breaks the camels back? Is the world ready for those repercussions?
> 
> Will we even get a warning‽


Don't make the coercive power sound so bad. That is the essence of every government.


----------



## tower9

OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ said:


> I fear that lines are getting blurred... while Russia is using it's coercive power on Ukraine for a certain end... the combined west is using similar coercive power on Russia.
> At what point does that cross the line for Russia and the game changes from it having anything to do about the status of Ukraine but about Russia and it's resistance and form it takes against west.
> 
> What would be that provocation that breaks the camels back? Is the world ready for those repercussions?
> 
> Will we even get a warning‽


The only reason why this war happened is because the West was coercively antagonizing Russia and disrespecting its red lines. The problem is that the West still lives in 1992 and doesn't realize the world has changed. Very soon, the Zog scum that rule the West will realize that they need to recognize the red lines of other powers and respect them.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498389802655363074


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498392179080896521


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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> 1. What backs that foreign currency?
> 2. Why would I want to use some foreign paper money with funny pictures to back up my own currency?
> 3. If my own currency is gold or silver, what do I need the foreign currency for?
> 
> 
> Starlink has very limited capacity. That is why after you subscribe it, you cannot even move to a different address. They need to a precise number of subscribers in each location to regulate the capacity.


1.) You do know the principal of Fiat Curency right?

Let's say I am holding a AUD $100 bill, why it worth $100 when it was just a piece of plastic worth maybe 5c?

This is because the Federal bank of Australia said it worth $100 and guarantee you that you will get $100 of goods when you use that 100 note and not just 5c.

Now, how can the Federal Bank Guarantee that? If the Federal Bank only hold Australian Dollar, it cannot because you cannot use an abstract value (that $100 note) to guarantee another $100 note. There are no value. What you do is you have A$100 equivalent of GBP or USD (Say Federal Bank have 55 British Pound in it to guarantee your $100 bill), so when you can exchange that GBP or USD to a foreign bank, you will have the value of A$100 (Which is your bill value). And that bank (say it was a GBP) did the same, they hold 100 AUD value of for 55 British Pound, and sell it back to Australia when they have to release that value. That how our money worth the denomination, this is the same system with every other currency, RMB included.

2.) Because you cannot use your own currency to back your own currency. Because it is an abstract value you assigned to your own currency, your Central Bank can literally change it, which mean it have no value. Because that $100 bill only worth 5c, and your bank said it worth $100, you can't use another $100 bill to back that up because the paper value of that bill is 5c.

3.) Can you spend gold? Like cut it up and give it to someone when you buy stuff?? How do you do oversea transfer then? Mail it? What if the other guy did not mail the item to you?

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## nang2

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498392179080896521


I guess there would be no tank biathlon this summer.

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## TheNoob

R Wing said:


> There's a guy in a t-shirt and cap. Interesting choice.



Maybe its his manager from the old comedian days.

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## RescueRanger

DNR fighters claim to have captured Granitno.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498399758112763906

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498399968264134660
They shared pictures of damaged UAF equipement:

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498353410797621249


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## khansaheeb

That Guy said:


> Don't call people naive, when you miss basic facts.
> 
> It may strengthen China, but it weakens Pakistan, as a vital supplier of military parts for Pakistan is no longer able to supply those parts. Pakistan uses a shit ton of Ukrainian engines for its tank forces, and replacing those tank engines is gonna cost a lot of money and time.
> 
> It also limits Pakistan's list of foreign suppliers. Relying entirely on a single supplier will erode Pakistan's sovereignty.
> 
> For Russia and India, yes Indians paid cash, but that's because they could afford it. There is a reason why Russians always go to Pakistan, whenever the Indians say they'll side deals with the US. Its blackmail. If the Russians were so friendly towards Pakistan, they'd be selling the RD-93 directly to Pakistan, instead of to China.
> 
> Pakistan is not aligning its policy with Iran or any other country. Its aligning itself to a more neutral stance, that just happens to be China friendly. With the Russia sanctions, you can also kiss increased economic and military relations with them goodbye.


Relationships take time to build.


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## jhungary

Bilal. said:


> Well Panama and Grenada are more recent examples. Relatively.



But was it current? I don't think Panama and Grenada are hostile to US.........


----------



## nang2

jhungary said:


> 1.) You do know the principal of Fiat Curency right?
> 
> Let's say I am holding a AUD $100 bill, why it worth $100 when it was just a piece of plastic worth maybe 5c?
> 
> This is because the Federal bank of Australia said it worth $100 and guarantee you that you will get $100 of goods when you use that 100 note and not just 5c.
> 
> Now, how can the Federal Bank Guarantee that? If the Federal Bank only hold Australian Dollar, it cannot because you cannot use an abstract value (that $100 note) to guarantee another $100 note. There are no value. What you do is you have A$100 equivalent of GBP or USD, so when you can exchange that GBP or USD to a foreign bank, you will have the value of A$100. And bank (say it was a GBP) did the same, they hold 100 Pound value of AUstralian dollar, and sell it back to Australia when they have to release that value. That how our money worth, this is the same system with every other currency, RMB included.
> 
> 2.) Because you cannot use your own currency to back your own currency. Because it is an abstract value you assigned to your own currency, your Central Bank can literally change it, which mean it have no value.
> 
> 3.) Can you spend gold? Like cut it up and give it to someone when you buy stuff?? How do you do oversea transfer then? Mail it? What if the other guy did not mail the item to you?


1). You really need to educate yourself more regarding currency. The principal of fiat currency means there is no backing at all. It says $100 because the government says so. Thus the word "fiat". When a ring of fiat currencies backing each other, it is still no backing.

2). It seems to me that you didn't know US used to have gold standard, which means it uses gold to back up its own currency. It was eventually abolished by Nixon so he could print his way out of budget shortage.

3). Again, check US own history. The first US dollar is a silver dollar, which has 371.5 grains of pure silver.

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## Bilal.

jhungary said:


> But was it current? I don't think Panama and Grenada are hostile to US.........


Same can hypothetical be said for Ukraine if Russia manages to achieve its goals and installs a pro Russian government there.

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## jhungary

Bilal. said:


> Same can hypothetical be said for Ukraine if Russia manages to achieve its goals and installs a pro Russian government there.


Well, no, because we weren't talking about Ukraine and Russia. We are talking about US and Russia. 

His point is, what if Mexico lean on Russia, would US do the same...(invade Mexico)


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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498402532347068420


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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> 1). You really need to educate yourself more regarding currency. The principal of fiat currency means there is no backing at all. It says $100 because the government says so. Thus the word "fiat". When a ring of fiat currencies backing each other, it is still no backing.
> 
> 2). It seems to me that you didn't know US used to have gold standard, which means it uses gold to back up its own currency. It was eventually abolished by Nixon so he could print his way out of budget shortage.
> 
> 3). Again, check US own history. The first US dollar is a silver dollar, which has 371.5 grains of pure silver.


1.) umm, it is, it's call "FOREX' That is the heck we are talking about. Fiat had to tied to something, if you think the government can say it worth anything then the currency will not be standard. Today it's a bill with (I want to say Washington face) on it, tomorrow they can say an apple craved the word 100 to be legal tender and the 3rd day, the government said a grain of salt worth $100, how chaotic would be??......If it's only the government said so.........

I want to know where you study Economy at?

2,) Key word, USED TO, not anymore.

3.) Again, USED TO, and again, that is the exact reason why we don't use gold and silver anymore. Can you use a US Silver dollar and buy stuff from EBay UK? IF so, how you gonna pay for it? Again, mail the silver dollar?

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## khansaheeb

Clutch said:


> Are these Russian Propaganda Channels??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://youtu.be/jiBXmbkwiSw
> https://youtu.be/xC1oCpnDURc
> https://youtu.be/5SBo0akeDMY
> https://youtu.be/iDG_hWlVda4


Hitler's illegitimated children.

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## Thinker3

KAL-EL said:


> Then the last thing Putin will be thinking about is Ukraine.
> 
> Putin is many things, but suicidal is not one of them.


If it comes to the collapse of the Russian economy on a large scale which will seriously hurt Russia, Russia will resort to Nuclear strikes, if the US was in place of Russia, the US will also do the same. some people are seriously underestimating the sensitivity of the situation and as far as Russians are concerned they will try their best to protect Russia against the incoming nukes in case of Nuclear exchange.

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> 1.) umm, it is, it's call "FOREX' That is the heck we are talking about.
> 
> I want to know where you study Economy at?
> 
> 2,) Key word, USED TO, not anymore.
> 
> 3.) Again, USED TO, and again, that is the exact reason why we don't use gold and silver anymore.


Guess why Russia has been hoarding gold in the last few years.

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## Bilal.

jhungary said:


> Well, no, because we weren't talking about Ukraine and Russia. We are talking about US and Russia.
> 
> His point is, what if Mexico lean on Russia, would US do the same...(invade Mexico)



And hence the historical precedents are relevant to project what might happen in such a hypothetical scenario.


----------



## jhungary

Bilal. said:


> And hence the historical precedents are relevant to project what might happen in such a hypothetical scenario.


But we are not talking about the same Current incident.......

One is Ukraine at war with Russia, the other is US at war with Mexico......


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## nang2

Bilal. said:


> And hence the historical precedents are relevant to project what might happen in such a hypothetical scenario.


He is just stuck his head in the sand.

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## Iñigo



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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Hahahaah. This is hilarious Georgia is terrified

Georgian PM says opposition wants to drag Tbilisi into war with Russia​





TBILISI, February 28. /TASS/. Opponents of the Georgian government seek to drag Georgia into a conflict with Russia over Ukraine and repeat the events of August 2008, the country’s Prime Minister Irakli Garibashvili said at a government meeting on Monday.

"We are very familiar with what is happening in Ukraine. We experienced this much earlier, in 2008. It is very sad that our radical opposition is rejoicing over the war in Ukraine and is seeking out benefits and interests for itself from all these calamities. Their goal is to repeat the tragedy from which they themselves failed to protect our people and country," Garibashvili said.

Prime Minister Garibashvili noted that Georgia continues to support Ukraine at all levels, even by way of having sent 100 tonnes of humanitarian aid on Sunday. "Our government, within its capabilities, is doing everything to offer the greatest support to our Ukrainian brothers and sisters, be it political, humanitarian, human, or otherwise," he stressed.


https://tass.com/world/1413305

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## Hassan Al-Somal

jhungary said:


> 1.) EU also issue a Transaction Ban. Which mean they probably can't buy Russia gas/oil from now on (Will need to check the exemption list)
> 
> 2.) This is going to be on-going, because you need to guarantee your currency every year, unless the US and EU lifted the sanction, this is going to be ongoing, Russia will not be able to buy USD/GBP/EURO/JPY this year, they will not going to buy them next year unless the sanction is lifted.
> 
> 3.) That does not mean anything. IT's not like you can force the west to do business with you despite the sanction because you are number 2 largest power. This is why even people in the west find it unbelievable.
> 
> And i Can tell you that even now, their everything is crashing, people are lining up in queue on bank, stock market close, bank close. And SWIFT has been taken out means they cannot transfer and receive funding. Russia technically can use CIPS but it's 80 institution vs 11,000 in SWIFT. Go Figure....



But these sanctions will help the CIPS and System for Transfer of Financial Messages (SPFS) to add more institutions. Especially, anyone who wants to buy Russian products will have to sign up on the SPFS without the US dollar be in the middle. In the long-run, these sanctions will be a blessing-in-disguise for the Russians.

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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> Guess why Russia has been hoarding gold in the last few years.


Again, how do you think you can trade gold worldwide?? You either physically mail that gold coin or bar. Oh, I know, how about a system where you get a piece of paper saying your gold worth X amount of money and exchange that paper to the other side and that side claim that X Amount of money? Umm, this sounded like something oddly familiar.

Oh Oh Oh, maybe a computer system that said you have X amount of gold in a thing called "Account" and then you electronically transfer that amount to another "account" and you complete the transaction that way? Let's call it telegraphic Transfer?



nang2 said:


> He is just stuck his head in the sand.


What? Are you saying US is Russia and Mexico is Ukraine?

I am SHOCK. SHOCK!! I tell you.

But then what Grenada and Panama stand for? Are they Ukraine? US? or Russia

(In case you did not get my joke)

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> Again, how do you think you can trade gold worldwide?? You either physically mail that gold coin or bar. Oh, I know, how about a system where you get a piece of paper saying your gold worth X amount of money and exchange that paper to the other side and that side claim that X Amount of money? Umm, this sounded like something oddly familiar.
> 
> Oh Oh Oh, maybe a computer system that said you have X amount of gold in a thing called "Account" and then you electronically transfer that amount to another "account" and you complete the transaction that way? Let's call it telegraphic Transfer?


You do know that there are rail links between Russia and China, don't you?

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## M. Sarmad

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498379877187309569

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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> But these sanctions will help the CIPS and System for Transfer of Financial Messages (SPFS) to add more institutions. Especially, anyone who wants to buy Russian products will have to sign up on the SPFS without the US dollar be in the middle. In the long-run, these sanctions will be a blessing-in-disguise for the Russians.


Well, doubt it, CIPS only have 80 Bank using it, versus 11,000 bank using SWIFT.

Would Russia focus on CIPS changes anything?



nang2 said:


> You do know that there are rail links between Russia and China, don't you?


How about Africa? If the Russia want more gold, banana or monkey? Are there rail link between Russia and Africa?

Oh maybe they shouldn't trade with Africa at all then? Or Indonesia? Or Cuba? Or Brazil? Or Venezuela? Are there any Russia to Whatever rail link between those country?


----------



## The SC

Iñigo said:


>



https://defense-arab.com/vb/data/video/461/461270-b4bb89e3f59c9ce4f0b8e3aa78f0fca6.mp4


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

dBSPL said:


> This decision is technically in Russia's favor.



It is also good for Turkey and others on those Straits because it keeps the conflict away from their doorstep. Smart move, I think.

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> How about Africa? If the Russia want more gold, banana or monkey? Are there rail link between Russia and Africa?
> 
> Oh maybe they shouldn't trade with Africa at all then? Or Indonesia?


There are ships and planes. Do I have to teach you all the modes of transportation?

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## Bilal.

jhungary said:


> But we are not talking about the same Current incident.......
> 
> One is Ukraine at war with Russia, the other is US at war with Mexico......


I understand. Since Mexico scenario is hypothetical at this point so the best we can do is to see how US dealt with similar situations in the past and project it to a current (or future) hypothetical scenario.


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## jhungary

Bilal. said:


> I understand. Since Mexico scenario is hypothetical at this point so the best we can do is to see how US dealt with similar situations in the past and project it to a current (or future) hypothetical scenario.


Similar is not the same. That was the idea. 

Also Neither Grenada and Panama are close to US like Ukraine is close to Russia, it cannot be compared.


----------



## BigMelatonin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498410754051121162

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498234894979420161

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498234066314878982
Ukraine is mobilizing foreigners and convicts to fight a war pro-Western sources say they're winning.

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## Paul2

M. Sarmad said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498379877187309569



It seems Ukrainians started to lose innitiative in the north.

That humongous convoy manage to break out of woods after all after keeping sustaining casualties for more than a day, and is now flooding plains West of Kiyv.

Russian plan seems to have been to have move vehicles than Ukrainians had projectiles

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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> There are ships and planes. Do I have to teach you all the modes of transportation?


So everytime you need to buy something form Africa, you take a ship and plane and buy it and pay gold and come back, and the next time you want to buy banana, you sail or fly to Africa again, pay gold and comeback?

Are you saying you want to do that?

That must be ONE HELL OF EXPENSIVE BANANA>........<

Do I have to basic principal of how TRADING work? You want to buy low, sell high.....Not the cost of the trip is 10000 times the banana......


----------



## mike2000 is back

pakpride00090 said:


> Is marriage to other races the only criteria to judge racism lol ?
> 
> I think genocide , slavery and other systemic discrimination are a better metrics to judge hatred and racism.
> 
> That lady's rejection of a black male cannot be compared to historical and current brutalities faced by blacks in white countries. Just because few white women married black man doesn't mean you are better.


OK if you really belive that. Let's get back to topic.


----------



## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498408565383573509


----------



## Bilal.

jhungary said:


> Similar is not the same. That was the idea.
> 
> Also Neither Grenada and Panama are close to US like Ukraine is close to Russia, it cannot be compared.


Of course. No two situations are exactly the same. But sufficiently similar situation can be used to extrapolate.


----------



## nang2

jhungary said:


> So everytime you need to buy something form Africa, you take a ship and plane and buy it and pay gold and come back, and the next time you want to buy banana, you sail or fly to Africa again, pay gold and comeback?
> 
> Are you saying you want to do that?


People have been doing that for thousands of years. Don't say it is "used to" so it won't work anymore. People get by with much more difficult obstacles. Using precious metal as payment would be not only welcome but also boost your credibility. Gold is more credit worthy than any fiat currencies out there, including US dollars. After 2008 financial crisis, there have been so few foreign buyers for US treasuries that Federal Reserve has to buy them in mass and call it "QE".

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498409286262743046

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498409357335310343

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## Turingsage

Translation:

Mom: Lesha, why are you taking so long to answer, are you actually at military training?

Lesha: I’m not in Crimea anymore mom and not at training

Mom: Where?? Dad is asking can we send you a package

Lesha: which package mom I just want to kill myself (or like upturn himself, don’t know what the word means)

Mom: what are you talking about? What happened??

Lesha: mom I’m in Ukraine. There is an actual war. I’m scared, we are shooting everyone, even peaceful citizens. Everyone. They told us they are gonna welcome us but they are throwing themselves under the tanks and not letting us move. They call us fascists. Mom it’s really hard.






*PHONE OF A DEAD RUSSIAN SOLDIER*

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## Iron Shrappenel

jhungary said:


> Again, how do you think you can trade gold worldwide?? You either physically mail that gold coin or bar. Oh, I know, how about a system where you get a piece of paper saying your gold worth X amount of money and exchange that paper to the other side and that side claim that X Amount of money? Umm, this sounded like something oddly familiar.
> 
> Oh Oh Oh, maybe a computer system that said you have X amount of gold in a thing called "Account" and then you electronically transfer that amount to another "account" and you complete the transaction that way? Let's call it telegraphic Transfer?


As a student of Chartered Accountancy,I would humbly request you to stop before I get eye cancer.

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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> People have been doing that for thousands of years. Don't say it is "used to" so it won't work anymore. People get by with much more difficult obstacles. Using precious metal as payment would be not only welcome but also boost your credibility. Gold is more credit worthy than any fiat currencies out there, including US dollars. After 2008 financial crisis, there have been so few foreign buyers for US treasuries that Federal Reserve has to buy them in mass and call it "QE".


People have been eating raw meat and dry plant for thousands of year, why we don't do it anymore?

There is a reason why Gold standard is NOT used anymore, not in Russia, not in China, not in anywhere. 

As much as I want to play with you this "Singularity" game, I am tired, and need to go to bed. 

Just my parting word. If you still don't get it, you probably never will.

Now i am a goner.

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## Iron Shrappenel

mike2000 is back said:


> Yes Pakistanis are known to love blacks and very welcoming to Africans. . Lol if you say so. , let's get back to topic.


As a Pakistani who has black friends, yes we do...

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## kingQamaR

I wonder, Are we going to see Russian history repeating it self again here. Will Mr Putin fate be same as to what happened to the then USSR leader’ MR NIKITA KHRUSCHAV, after his disastrous 1962 Cuban crisis’ with the USA he was disposed from leader in 1964 s year later. Can this modern Russian state untangle itself peacefully from Putin that’s all they’ve known for the last 20 years he is after all Russian state symbol of a strong man and pride

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## Primus

Turingsage said:


> View attachment 819645
> 
> 
> 
> Translation:
> 
> Mom: Lesha, why are you taking so long to answer, are you actually at military training?
> 
> Lesha: I’m not in Crimea anymore mom and not at training
> 
> Mom: Where?? Dad is asking can we send you a package
> 
> Lesha: which package mom I just want to kill myself (or like upturn himself, don’t know what the word means)
> 
> Mom: what are you talking about? What happened??
> 
> Lesha: mom I’m in Ukraine. There is an actual war. I’m scared, we are shooting everyone, even peaceful citizens. Everyone. They told us they are gonna welcome us but they are throwing themselves under the tanks and not letting us move. They call us fascists. Mom it’s really hard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PHONE OF A DEAD RUSSIAN SOLDIER*


Thats apparently fake.

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> People have been eating raw meat and dry plant for thousands of year, why we don't do it anymore?
> 
> There is a reason why Gold standard is NOT used anymore, not in Russia, not in China, not in anywhere.
> 
> As much as I want to play with you this "Singularity" game, I am tired, and need to go to bed.
> 
> Just my parting word. If you still don't get it, you probably never will.
> 
> Now i am a goner.


As my parting word, your ignorance about currency is the main reason why US government and any other governments that embrace fiat money are allowed to use inflation to tax their citizens without ramification. You are a sucker who praises the one who loots your wealth away.

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## KAL-EL

Thinker3 said:


> If it comes to the collapse of the Russian economy on a large scale which will seriously hurt Russia, Russia will resort to Nuclear strikes, if the US was in place of Russia, the US will also do the same. some people are seriously underestimating the sensitivity of the situation and as far as Russians are concerned they will try their best to protect Russia against the incoming nukes in case of Nuclear exchange.



They can try and protect all they want, in a full-scale nuclear war, that won't mean a thing.

Anyone thinking otherwise is diluted, or thinking in a video game mentality


----------



## Primus

kingQamaR said:


> I wonder, Are we going to see Russian history repeating it self again here. Will Mr Putin fate be same as to what happened to the then USSR leader’ MR NIKITA KHRUSCHAV, after his disastrous 1962 Cuban crisis’ with the USA he was disposed from leader in 1964 s year later. Can this modern Russian state untangle itself peacefully from Putin that’s all they’ve known for the last 20 years he is after all Russian state symbol of a strong man and pride


It depends. Should Russia emerge the victor of this war, he can use it to his advantage as someone making Russia great again by taking back their former territories. 

Should he lose then, those that oppose him will have a heck of a fight on their hands. He wont go down easily.

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## mike2000 is back

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498346428871200770


Seems Turkey has blocked Russia's access to the bosphorus. Interesting . RUSSIA invasion seems to have united NATO and E.U countries more than ever in their entire history since the formation of this union. Quite ironic actually. Even the historically neutral Switzerland has placed sanctions on Russia and condemn Putins invasion. Quite unprecedented.
Even Germany's ruling colation involving the green party who has always supported peace missions by germanys army and always advocated a very restrictive arms export policy. Now, following intense public pressure and similar promises from other countries, German weapons will be delivered to Ukraine after all, including 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 anti-aircraft missiles and promise mich more to follow. They have also changed their view towards Russia politically. 
Putin has succeeded in achieving what the U.S/U.K have been trying for decades to achieve(I.e to get Germany to take its security and defense spending more seriously and increase their defence budget ). 
Even the center left ruling SDP party who has been a pro Russian peace negotiation party In Germany has now taken a harsh view towards Russia and call for a more sustain military expenditure by Germany from now(at least 2% of GDP) something which nobody could believe would have been possible before this invasion. We tried to get Germany to do just this for decades invain. 😆
Interesting, Putin you have really achieve the unimaginable . 😆


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

The Next guest who will host Russians within there sovereign territories

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498410794010173446


----------



## BigMelatonin

mike2000 is back said:


> Seems Turkey has blocked Russias access to the bosphorus. Interesting . RUSSIA invasion seems to have united NATO and E.U countries more than ever in their entire history since the formation of this union. Quite ironic actually. Even the historically neutral Switzerland has placed sanctions on Russia and condemn Putins invasion. Quite unprecedented.
> Even Germanys ruling colation involving the green party who has always supported peace missions by germanys army and always advocated a very restrictive arms export policy. Now, following intense public pressure and similar promises from other countries, German weapons will be delivered to Ukraine after all, including 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 anti-aircraft missiles. Putin has succeeded in achieving what the U.S/U.K have been trying for decades to achieve(I.e to get Germany to take its security and defense spending more seriously and increase their defence budget ). Even the center left ruling SFP party who has been a pro Russian peace negotiation party In Germany has now taken a harsh view towards Russia and call for a more sustain military expenditure by Germany from now(at least 2% of GDP) something which nobody could believe would have been possible before this invasion.
> Interesting, Putin you have really achieve the unimaginable . 😆


Turkey blocked access to ALL warships, including NATO ones.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

jhungary said:


> I am pretty sure Foreign Currency is used to back your own currency, I know for a fact that you can't use your own currency to back your own currency, because that does not guarantee your currency value.



What about natural resources such as gold, silver, tin, copper, gemstones, oil, natural gas etc? Money itself without resource backing it doesn't mean much. That is why the US dollar is based on the petroleum sales through OPEC. So in this instance, Russia is a major producer rare earth minerals, natural gas, oil, and other minerals. Internally Russia should be fine with some squeeze on the petroleum exports, but over time, it should weather those sanctions as well.

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## nang2

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> The Next guest who will host Russians on their soil...
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498410794010173446


I think the whole NATO idea now is just a scam that only benefits US politicians and other parasitic countries at the cost of US taxpayers.

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## mike2000 is back

Iron Shrappenel said:


> As a Pakistani who has black friends, yes we do...


As a British who has black friends we also do. Lol

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498341488157208576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498317828113510403

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## RescueRanger

Turingsage said:


> View attachment 819645
> 
> 
> 
> Translation:
> 
> Mom: Lesha, why are you taking so long to answer, are you actually at military training?
> 
> Lesha: I’m not in Crimea anymore mom and not at training
> 
> Mom: Where?? Dad is asking can we send you a package
> 
> Lesha: which package mom I just want to kill myself (or like upturn himself, don’t know what the word means)
> 
> Mom: what are you talking about? What happened??
> 
> Lesha: mom I’m in Ukraine. There is an actual war. I’m scared, we are shooting everyone, even peaceful citizens. Everyone. They told us they are gonna welcome us but they are throwing themselves under the tanks and not letting us move. They call us fascists. Mom it’s really hard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PHONE OF A DEAD RUSSIAN SOLDIER*


Excuse my cynicism but I only have one thing to say to this:

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498414700836659202

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## PDF

RAF seems to be operating from Cyprus.

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## Thinker3

KAL-EL said:


> They can try and protect all they want, in a full-scale nuclear war, that won't mean a thing.
> 
> Anyone thinking otherwise is diluted, or thinking in a video game mentality


And if people think they can push Russia against the wall, sanction them to point of economic collapse, send the latest weapons that are killing Russian troops, send people to fight Russian Troops, isolate Russia Internationally, exclude them from the world, cripple their currency, stop their trade and then think that somehow this will force Russia to submission and Russia will just sit back and let itself collapse without retaliating then that is just wishful thinking and ignorance.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

US sends delegation to Taiwan amid ‘invasion’ fears​The trip by former Pentagon and national security figures is a show of support for the island claimed by Beijing


https://www.rt.com/news/550896-biden-trip-taiwan-invasion/

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498416082155188228

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## RescueRanger

mike2000 is back said:


> Yes Pakistanis are known to love blacks and very welcoming to Africans. . Lol if you say so. , let's get back to topic.


Mike you may not know this since your interaction may be limited to Pakistanis in the UK, but here in Pakistan we have our own bantu community known as the Sheedi who live along the Makran coast. We also are host to a small population of Somali refugees via UNHCR and play host to Nigerian's studying at AKUH and IIU. 






Whilst sadly racism is everywhere because racism is taught behavior based on cultural or conscious/unconscious biases based on irrational factors such as skin color, and Pakistan is no exception, we have our own biases, but please don't judge us Pakistanis based on the actions of our overseas variants. 

Thank you.

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## kingQamaR

Hungary is a disgrace. Lets remember them if they ever need our help


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## nang2

RescueRanger said:


> Mike you may not know this since your interaction may be limited to Pakistanis in the UK, but here in Pakistan we have our own bantu community known as the Sheedi who live along the Makran coast. We also are host to a small population of Somali refugees via UNHCR and play host to Nigerian's studying at AKUH and IIU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whilst sadly racism is everywhere because racism is taught behavior based on cultural or conscious/unconscious biases based on irrational factors such as skin color, and Pakistan is no exception, we have our own biases, but please don't judge us Pakistanis based on the actions of our overseas variants.
> 
> Thank you.


I think Europeans in this case are just acting honestly, instead of wearing a mask. The reality is that we are all fellow racists. It is natural for everyone to prefer those who look, talk and act like us to those who don't. World would be a lot better when people are honest to themselves, instead of faking the hell out of it.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498414908379172866

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498416000030711812


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## RescueRanger

PDF said:


> RAF seems to be operating from Cyprus.
> 
> View attachment 819647


That is RAF Akrotiri home to 84 Sqd and 903 Expeditionary Air wing.

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## kingQamaR

Thinker3 said:


> If it comes to the collapse of the Russian economy on a large scale which will seriously hurt Russia, Russia will resort to Nuclear strikes, if the US was in place of Russia, the US will also do the same. some people are seriously underestimating the sensitivity of the situation and as far as Russians are concerned they will try their best to protect Russia against the incoming nukes in case of Nuclear exchange.



Putin has not "threatened nuclear war." He has put a part of his army on nuclear threat deterrent. Enough with the scaremongering, this type of reporting can damage the psychology and health of some people.on here


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## HaMoTZeMaS

RescueRanger said:


> DNR fighters claim to have captured Granitno.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498399758112763906
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498399968264134660
> They shared pictures of damaged UAF equipement:
> View attachment 819636
> 
> View attachment 819637
> 
> View attachment 819638


i dont see somce conscript but rough and tough guys unlike claimed on Social media

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

A Finnish just revealed why Finland is arming Ukraine...

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498409536989937670

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498416997905936384
Russia immediately replied without name dropping anyone

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498418095068753920

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## coffee_cup

RescueRanger said:


> Mike you may not know this since your interaction may be limited to Pakistanis in the UK, but here in Pakistan we have our own bantu community known as the Sheedi who live along the Makran coast. We also are host to a small population of Somali refugees via UNHCR and play host to Nigerian's studying at AKUH and IIU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whilst sadly racism is everywhere because racism is taught behavior based on cultural or conscious/unconscious biases based on irrational factors such as skin color, and Pakistan is no exception, we have our own biases, but please don't judge us Pakistanis based on the actions of our overseas variants.
> 
> Thank you.



In fact, Pakistan is considered one of the least racist countries in the world. There was this report published few years back.


----------



## Turingsage

Those who do not know.
*Ukraine had the third largest arsenal of nuclear weapons until it voluntarily handed them to Russia.*
Russia repaid them my slicing off bits of Ukraine and the whole of Crimea.

Ukraine was the country with the third-largest stockpile of nuclear weapons when the Soviet Union collapsed​
*The story so far:* Russia has launched a large-scale military operation against Ukraine. The act was described as a “full-scale invasion of Ukraine” by the country’s Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba. Loud blasts were heard from the Ukrainian cities of Kyiv, Kharkiv, and Odesa.
As Ukraine battles powerful Russian armed forces, leaders of the country have expressed regrets about giving up their nuclear weapons which they believe might have held off an invasion of their territory by Russian President Vladimir Putin.
*Follow live updates here*

When did Ukraine give up its nuclear weapons?​At the time of its independence from the erstwhile Soviet Union in 1991, Ukraine had the third-largest stockpile of nuclear weapons in the world. Things, however, changed when the country became a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) in 1994 alongside Belarus and Kazakhstan, the other two countries that were left with nuclear weapons after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
At the time of U.S.S.R. dissolution, Ukraine had an estimated 1,900 strategic warheads, 176 intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM), and 44 strategic bombers, according to the Arms Control Association of the U.S.

What is the 1991 Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty?​The Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty (Start) was a bilateral treaty signed by former U.S. President George H.W. Bush and Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev in 1991. It limited the number of ICBMs and nuclear warheads that the countries could possess. The treaty went through a period of turmoil when the Soviet Union ceased to exist, casting aspersions on its legitimacy. Ukraine, Kazakhstan, and Belarus signed a protocol in Lisbon in 1992 making them “successor states” of the Soviet Union.
The treaty obligated the successor states to join the Nuclear NPT at the earliest and the nuclear weapons were to remain under the control of a “single unified authority” until then.
Also Read



Data | 50 years of non-proliferation of nuclear weapons treaty: will disarmament be achieved?​Following the Lisbon protocol, differences between Russia and Ukraine on the latter’s status as a nuclear state came to the fore, raising concerns related to nuclear disarmament.
After extensive political manoeuvring, Ukraine ratified Start in February 1994 when it signed the Trilateral Statement along with the U.S. and Russia. Ukraine committed to full disarmament in exchange for economic compensation and security assurances.
The country had accepted economic assistance from the U.S. to dismantle missiles, bombers, and nuclear infrastructure, and agreed to hand over its warheads to Russia to be dismantled there in exchange for compensation for the commercial value of its highly-enriched uranium.
Ukraine transferred its last nuclear warhead to Russia in 1996 and dismantled its last strategic nuclear delivery vehicle in 2001.
What is the Budapest Memorandum?​The Budapest Memorandum of Security Assurances is a political agreement between Ukraine, Russia, the U.K., and the U.S. It was signed in 1994.
According to the memorandum, signatories Russia, the U.S., and the U.K. agreed to respect the “independence and sovereignty and existing borders of Ukraine” after the country agreed to give up its nuclear stockpile. Ukraine was also promised that its territorial integrity and political independence will be maintained and that the signatories will not use economic coercion against Ukraine to their own advantage.
Was the 2014 invasion of Crimea a violation of the Budapest memorandum?​Russia annexed Crimea, a part of Ukraine, as its territory in March 2014. The move was criticised by governments around the world and called a direct violation of the 1994 Budapest Memorandum. The Russian government, however, denied the charge and defended itself by raising questions about the legitimacy of the leadership in Kyiv.

As Ukraine battles powerful Russian armed forces, leaders of the country have expressed regrets about giving up their nuclear weapons which they believe might have held off an invasion of their territory by Russian President Vladimir Putin.
After extensive political manoeuvring, Ukraine ratified Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty in February 1994 when it signed the Trilateral Statement along with the U.S. and Russia. Ukraine committed to full disarmament in exchange for economic compensation and security assurances.
Ukraine transferred its last nuclear warhead to Russia in 1996 and dismantled its last strategic nuclear delivery vehicle in 2001.


----------



## KAL-EL

kingQamaR said:


> Putin has not "threatened nuclear war." He has put a part of his army on nuclear threat deterrent. Enough with the scaremongering, this type of reporting can damage the psychology and health of some people.on here


Putin is many things, but one of them is not suicidal or wishing to commit National Suicide.

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## Inception-06

@Desert Fox 1 as written and said by you and also many other Members Drones have become the weapon of choice for the Ukraine, this are the key future tool for surveillance and destroying targets, the Russian neglected it to integrate this weapon system in a cohesive manner with their combine warfare doctrine and way to fight, while Pakistan and the rest of the world ordered it and exercised this weapon years ago ! I am happy that Pakistan has Turkeys help and partnership in the new art of warfare. Turkey Pakistan Brothership Zindabad - Long life ! But still I can’t believe that the Ukraines are doing the Drone game alone, the Drones are operated with the help from outside and the losses are refilled for example by Poland.

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## LeGenD

tower9 said:


> I have been to both places several times, China and Europe. I can guarantee you. Europe has no hope of competing with China.
> 
> Only the US is still competitive with China, and I see China surpassing the US in most fields within the next decade.


Let us see.









Economy


The EU is a single market that trades globally and between its member countries




european-union.europa.eu











_The EU accounts for around 15% of the world’s trade in goods. The EU, China and the United States are the three largest global players in international trade._

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## dBSPL



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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Moldova raises the white flag

Moldova to do everything to avoid involvement in Ukrainian situation - MFA​The government is working to "preserve peace in the society, consolidate it and block calls for violence," the minister said

CHISINAU, February 28. /TASS/. Moldova will do everything to avoid involvement in the situation in Ukraine where Russia is conducting a special military operation, Moldovan Foreign Minister Nicolae Popescu said on TV-8 television on Monday.
"We are making every effort to avoid Moldova’s involvement in this conflict," he said. "It’s not easy, given the Transdniestrian conflict and the presence of Russian troops on our territory."
The government is working to "preserve peace in the society, consolidate it and block calls for violence," the minister said.



https://tass.com/world/1413593

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


>


Haha I love this guys charisma and choice of hardware. 😂

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## dBSPL

President Zelensky: "Russia, which commits war crimes, should not be a permanent member of the UN Security Council"

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## lastofthepatriots

https://imgur.com/a/mXKOE2g

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## tower9

Thinker3 said:


> And if people think they can push Russia against the wall, sanction them to point of economic collapse, send the latest weapons that are killing Russian troops, send people to fight Russian Troops, isolate Russia Internationally, exclude them from the world, cripple their currency, stop their trade and then think that somehow this will force Russia to submission and Russia will just sit back and let itself collapse without retaliating then that is just wishful thinking and ignorance.



The clowns in Washington really are this dumb.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498415979038130185

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## lastofthepatriots

https://imgur.com/a/8kJsyMC

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## Turingsage

*A 17 mile convoy of Armour . Tanks, Artillery, logistics vehicles, armoured carriers are moving onto to Kiev .






*


LiveLive
Huge convoy of Russian armour advances on Kyiv​




Stretching for nearly 17 miles, the units include hundreds of tanks, artillery and logistics vehicles.

Europe
Related content​
Video
Pushchair passed over heads in desperate station scenes
Video
Ukrainian fighters battle Russian troops in Kharkiv
Video
Oil depot set ablaze near Kyiv
Ukrainecast: What is Putin thinking?
Video
President Zelensky: We will defend our state
Video
BBC


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## LeGenD

nang2 said:


> I think the whole NATO idea now is just a scam that only benefits US politicians and other parasitic countries at the cost of US taxpayers.


How is NATO a scam? Russia have not taken its chances with a single NATO member state thus far.

Russian is evidently spooked by the prospects of more of its neighbors turning to NATO for security.





__





Now Russia threatens Finland and Sweden with 'military consequences' over Nato






www.msn.com





It works.

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> President Zelensky: "Russia, which commits war crimes, should not be a permanent member of the UN Security Council"


Yes Ukraine should…

Ukraine should become head of NATO, Full member of EU and Chair of the United Nations. That’s not enough, you cannot stop there, Ukraine demands that a cult be established in its honour and every Monday be known as Kyiv day where the only thing you can eat are Chicken Kiev’s.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498374263346237450

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498424070873960449


----------



## Thinker3

kingQamaR said:


> Putin has not "threatened nuclear war." He has put a part of his army on nuclear threat deterrent. Enough with the scaremongering, this type of reporting can damage the psychology and health of some people.on here


What do you think he should say? Nuclear Forces should be ready to launch nukes?


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

dBSPL said:


>


He looks like a guy who they found in a random pub down the corner

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498425379933102082


----------



## HaMoTZeMaS

Turingsage said:


> *A 17 mile convoy of Armour . Tanks, Artillery, logistics vehicles, armoured carriers are moving onto to Kiev .*
> 
> 
> LiveLive
> Huge convoy of Russian armour advances on Kyiv​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stretching for nearly 17 miles, the units include hundreds of tanks, artillery and logistics vehicles.
> 
> Europe
> Related content​
> Video
> Pushchair passed over heads in desperate station scenes
> Video
> Ukrainian fighters battle Russian troops in Kharkiv
> Video
> Oil depot set ablaze near Kyiv
> Ukrainecast: What is Putin thinking?
> Video
> President Zelensky: We will defend our state
> Video
> BBC


where are those mighty Drones bringing down shits onto isolated tanks but not on open conveys

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## 313ghazi

Muhammed45 said:


> The massage that it conveys, is, hey Muslim you have to suffer. No one cares, no one shows sympathy, no one is interested in seeing your teaeful eyes. You have to suffer And suffer


We suffer mostly at the hands of our own. If we weren't divided we wouldn't suffer.

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## Thinker3

tower9 said:


> The clowns in Washington really are this dumb.


Let us hope that Russians have some measures in place to face such sanctions and restrictions so that they won't go to such extremes.

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## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498415979038130185


I’m not defending Russians here but anyone who’s ever been around MREs known 7 years is nothing.

I still have some left over British rations from the 2005 Earthquake and the hot chocolate is still delicious





Still don’t believe me?

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## dBSPL

RescueRanger said:


> Yes Ukraine should…
> 
> Ukraine should become head of NATO, Full member of EU and Chair of the United Nations. That’s not enough, you cannot stop there, Ukraine demands that a cult be established in its honour and every Monday be known as Kyiv day where the only thing you can eat are Chicken Kiev’s.


In 1979, Soviet Russia entered Afghanistan, with its consequences the USSR broke up, Now it has entered Ukraine, with the consequences the Russian Federation will dissolve. This is the West's plan. We'll see if they can achieve this, but the fact we cant sure that this plan is supported/influenced by a conspiracy against Putin within Russia is unlikely given the incomprehensible mistakes within Russia lately. Something is going on in Ukraine, something that cannot be experienced in the face of such a weak enemy, and for me, most of Russians too, can not understand what is happening.

Showing Ukraine completely open to attack. Then there's NATO's rapid development of action, which seems so messy until Russian war decision. Even all of Zelenski's statements. I think it's all the product of a common strategy.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498429916680966145

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## R Wing

dBSPL said:


> President Zelensky: "Russia, which commits war crimes, should not be a permanent member of the UN Security Council"



and the US?

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## gambit

313ghazi said:


> I have another question then - *why are they flying within manpad range?* Is that something they have to do in order to provide CAS?
> 
> I would have assumed that strikes against static targets could be conducted using longer range stand off weaponry?


No choice. Close Air Support means exactly that -- *CLOSE*.

Battlefield details are lost with increasing altitude and speed. Above 10K ft or roughly above 3000 meters, I can have the "God's Eye" view of the area, but it is difficult, if not impossible, for me to figure out the IFF ground lines, in other words, I cannot ID out Friend from Foe. So I have no choice but to descent and slow down, which put me into MANPADS' operational parameters.

Sometimes a Friend will call a 'danger close' delivery so I have to know where/when to pickle. To be 'danger close' mean you are at risk from my munition. That mean I have to descent and slow down to visually see where you want the delivery. Further, I have limited munition, so the more precise the delivery, the greater the odds of your survival, so again, I have to descent and slow down.

The advantage that jets have over helos is acceleration after delivery. If you look closely at how a helo need to accelerate, especially from hover, you will see the helo tilt slightly nose down to use rotor air to push the aircraft forward. There is a slight pause in the motion. Jets do not have that delay. As soon as I pickled, I will throttle forward will pick up speed immediately, giving me an increase odds of escaping out of the MANPADS' operational parameters. Does not guarantee, but I need every edge I can get. If there is sufficient lower altitude, I will even dive to gain speed and if there are topos like low hills nearby, diving into the valleys between the hill tops can give me cover from the MANPADS' IR seeker. So what happens is that my engine's IR is being strobed from the terrain and my flares adds to the IR sources. The F-16's engine is actually seen more as an IR stream while the A-10 guys are seen as diffused blobs, so the F-16 is worse off.

There are a lot of hypothetical scenarios where bombers can deliver bombs that are 'smart' enough to take on CAS, but that day is not yet here. So for now, CAS must be low and slow.

🎶

Slow ride, take it easy
Slow ride, take it easy
Slow down, go down, got to get your lovin' one more time
Hold me, roll me, slow ridin' woman you're so fine

🎶

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## kingQamaR

Thinker3 said:


> What do you think he should say? Nuclear Forces should be ready to launch nukes?



What does it matter who has the most powerful nuclear weapons? We all lose if it gets to that!


----------



## Thinker3

kingQamaR said:


> What does it matter who has the most powerful nuclear weapons? We all lose if it gets to that!


I think you misunderstood me, I did not talk about the power of Nuclear weapons of any country, and yes we can not even imagine the results, if a nuclear exchange happens.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498428447097556995

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498374263346237450


Yes in theory this would work but at the rate Russians are burning through their fuel, just wait for the soldiers to leave the tanks and detain them. 😂

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498433585933598723


----------



## Ali_Baba

dBSPL said:


> In 1979, Soviet Russia entered Afghanistan, with its consequences the USSR broke up, Now it has entered Ukraine, with the consequences the Russian Federation will dissolve. This is the West's plan. We'll see if they can achieve this, but the fact we cant sure that this plan is supported/influenced by a conspiracy against Putin within Russia is unlikely given the incomprehensible mistakes within Russia lately. Something is going on in Ukraine, something that cannot be experienced in the face of such a weak enemy, and for me, most of Russians too, can not understand what is happening.
> 
> Showing Ukraine completely open to attack. Then there's NATO's rapid development of action, which seems so messy until Russian war decision. Even all of Zelenski's statements. I think it's all the product of a common strategy.


People will laugh at me but once the heavy artillery starts pounding the major cities and large scale civilian casualties start taking place on peoples tv screens, public opinion will demand intervention regardless of the cost. Members of NATO may then get involved in stopping this invasion..

No one is scared of Russia‘s conventional threat - only nukes.

A lot of conventions have been breached by a lot of countries in the last few days, and there will be more before this is over.

russians know this is a risk and why they have not used their airforce much - they are saving them for a face off with NATO ( imho …….. )

there is a very fine line here..

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498433459559321602

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

This hilarious russian account will sooner or later get banned from twitter


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498282563412148224


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## RescueRanger

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498433585933598723


The actual number is expected to be close to 1.3 million, but there is so much confusion and due to the it systems breaking down due to the numbers of people leaving Ukraine both Poland and Hungary are resorting to using paper records which are notoriously erroneous and prone to poor data integrity.

The final numbers will be much higher.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498433459559321602


As expected, the Hungarians are sitting on the fence and spooked by the knee knocking from Georgia.



dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498428447097556995


Damn Coca-Cola they’ve got product placement everywhere 😂


----------



## Wood

FIFA and UEFA suspend Russia from international football and clubs from European competition


FIFA has suspended Russia from competing in international games until further notice due to their invasion of Ukraine.The suspension means Russia will not...




theathletic.com

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## QWECXZ

Ali_Baba said:


> No one is scared of Russia‘s conventional threat - only nukes.


You had me rolling on the floor when you said that no one is scared of Russia's conventional threats.

In 5 days, they have managed to occupy a territory that is equal to 4 small European countries. I have many European friends, they are scared shitless right now.
And Ukraine is still one of the better prepared European countries. How many small European countries do you think Russia can invade in a week? My guess would be 5, at least.

Baltic countries would fall like autumn leaves. And let's not forget that Russia is not employing even 20% of its active personnel for this. Russia has over 3 million professionally trained personnel, including 2 million reserved personnel and 1 million active personnel. Add millions of Russian patriots and Russophile Slavs to a potential large scale war as well. And then add Russia's newer military equipment that haven't been used yet as well. It's beyond laughable to say that no one is scared of Russia's conventional capabilities.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498428447097556995



I feel bad about Ukrainian army. All they can do is hit and run. This army is really outgunned. What was their leadership doing all of those years and didn't prepare their armed forces for battle like this one? 

Ukrainian leadership has really missed a great opportunity: They should've opted non-aligned status and refused any Western influences that were setting them against Russia. With such an apparent weakness, they should've opted as the same status as Switzerland, Finland, and Sweden.

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## Kraetoz

Wood said:


> FIFA and UEFA suspend Russia from international football and clubs from European competition
> 
> 
> FIFA has suspended Russia from competing in international games until further notice due to their invasion of Ukraine.The suspension means Russia will not...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theathletic.com



Sports should never be political or choose sides. Shame on UEFA and FIFA.

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## QWECXZ

Kraetoz said:


> Sports should never be political or choose sides. Shame on UEFA and FIFA.


No, sports should never be politicized when it is against the Israeli apartheid regime. It is fully legal and even encouraged when it is politicized against the West's adversaries.

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## gambit

RescueRanger said:


> As expected, the Hungarians are sitting on the fence and spooked by the knee knocking from Georgia.


This is called appeasement and never work.

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## mb444

Ali_Baba said:


> People will laugh at me but once the heavy artillery starts pounding the major cities and large scale civilian casualties start taking place on peoples tv screens, public opinion will demand intervention regardless of the cost. Members of NATO may then get involved in stopping this invasion..
> 
> No one is scared of Russia‘s conventional threat - only nukes.
> 
> A lot of conventions have been breached by a lot of countries in the last few days, and there will be more before this is over.
> 
> russians know this is a risk and why they have not used their airforce much - they are saving them for a face off with NATO ( imho …….. )
> 
> there is a very fine line here..




Would UK really face off a nuclear country over a non entity that is Ukraine.

Bozo and truss will bark for a few days and allow in Ukrainian fruit pickers but thats about it.

No one is going to fight for ukaraine and no ones going to deliver any weapons. Its all talk...the media frenzy is a sign of desperation.

As they say the first casualty of war is the truth. I do not buy that ukranians are putting up an effective defense and nor do i buy that russian invasion is going according ro their plan.

The truth is somewhere in the middle. From what I see russians have not really gone for shock and awe at get go. They have taken out ukranian airforce and degrading logistics surgically.

They will then encircle cities and just probe until they run out of ammunition, fuel and food. From what I see russian do not wish to damage ukraine too much and then have to pay to rebuild it.

They control ukranian borders.... they will let out civilians but probably stop anything and everything coming in. It is just a matter of time before ukraine falls... there is really no need for russia to rush.

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## nang2

LeGenD said:


> How is NATO a scam? Russia have not taken its chances with a single NATO member state thus far.
> 
> Russian is evidently spooked by the prospects of more of its neighbors turning to NATO for security.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now Russia threatens Finland and Sweden with 'military consequences' over Nato
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It works.


Yeah, I mean a scam against US taxpayers. For those that are protected without much paying for it, of course it works

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## Indian Libertarian

gambit said:


> This is called appeasement and never work.


Who is being appeased?

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## kingQamaR

Thinker3 said:


> I think you misunderstood me, I did not talk about the power of Nuclear weapons of any country, and yes we can not even imagine the results, if a nuclear exchange happens.



Sadly your guy Putin thinks its alright to increase the tensions some how help his mess in Ukraine


----------



## lastofthepatriots



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## kingQamaR

gambit said:


> This is called appeasement and never work.



Didn’t Eu and Nato do exactly the sane by allowing Russian to steal land of Georgia And then let Putin take crimea


----------



## Oublious



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## dBSPL

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> All they can do is hit and run. This army is really outgunned.


really? This is exactly what they are supposed to do anyway. Asymmetric warfare. I think you don't understand what the war in Ukraine has turned into now.

The number of atgm Ukraine currently has and will soon receive is probably over 50,000. That's why they brought the war to the cities.

Ukraine's aim is not to win the war. JUST, NOT being SURRENDER. Because as this process continues, the Atlantic pact will continue to beat Russia economically and psychologically.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498440820260802561

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498321143899598856

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## Kraetoz

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498297977366102024
They are also banning Russia from most sporting events. Reports are that ATP and International Tennis Federation are also looking forward to ban Russian athletes from Tennis events.

Can't digest the fact that current World Number 1 in tennis is Russian.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498321143899598856



Russians escalating it?


----------



## nang2

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498321143899598856


Let me guess. A way to neutralize UAVs?

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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498321143899598856


Good. Buy Russian gas! 😂

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498415200462114818

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## RescueRanger

Oublious said:


>


Hahahaha we want to join the Ukrainian Army or whatever innit? 😂🤣

Also did my man just state the map pocket on his chest rig is a plate carrier 😂.

What a shit show! Now just imagine if Leon or Tom were headed to the Middle East? 😂

Thank you for sharing this , I had a good laugh!

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498445336829956096

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## Hassan Al-Somal

dBSPL said:


> really? This is exactly what they are supposed to do anyway. Asymmetric warfare. I think you don't understand what the war in Ukraine has turned into now.
> 
> The number of atgm Ukraine currently has and will soon receive is probably over 50,000. That's why they brought the war to the cities.
> 
> Ukraine's aim is not to win the war. JUST, NOT being SURRENDER. Because as this process continues, the Atlantic pact will continue to beat Russia economically and psychologically.



But Russia will capture Kiev, install a new government, and form a new Pro-Russian army. It remains if the resistance to be seen in Ukraine can be as effective as Afghans and Iraqis.

I think the West has sacrificed Ukraine in order to get at Putin, and stupid Zelenskyy has taken the bait. When he was negitiating with the Russians, they were dictating him to the terms that he should stick with, and when his country was invaded and his cities were placed under bombardment, those powers were nowhere to be found. It seems the lives of Ukrainians don't mean much to the devil-worshiping Western elites.

But I gotta accept one fact: Zelenskyy is an idiot.

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## HAIDER

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498415979038130185


and expired Kalashnikov too. ( this propaganda is amazing, a boiled egg looks fresh since 2015.. it is a miracle )..

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## QWECXZ



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## Vergennes

HAIDER said:


> and expired Kalashnikov too. ( this propaganda is amazing, a boiled egg looks fresh since 2015.. it is a miracle )..



LMAO did you actually mistake a plastic spoon for a boiled egg ?

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## Englishman

RescueRanger said:


> Hahahaha we want to join the Ukrainian Army or whatever innit? 😂🤣
> 
> Also did my man just state the map pocket on his chest rig is a plate carrier 😂.
> 
> What a shit show! Now just imagine if Leon or Tom were headed to the Middle East? 😂
> 
> Thank you for sharing this , I had a good laugh!


Idiots

Don't they know there's no good curry in Ukraine? What are they going to eat?

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## HAIDER

RescueRanger said:


> Hahahaha we want to join the Ukrainian Army or whatever innit? 😂🤣
> 
> Also did my man just state the map pocket on his chest rig is a plate carrier 😂.
> 
> What a shit show! Now just imagine if Leon or Tom were headed to the Middle East? 😂
> 
> Thank you for sharing this , I had a good laugh!


Mr. Leon should offer his service when Russia invades Carrabean .... right now his presence is not suitable in Ukraine for his personal security.

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## RescueRanger

anytime i see an uninitiated mock the A74-M comparing it to the RAS-47 , I only have one thing to say to you heathens:


----------



## FuturePAF

tower9 said:


> I have been to both places several times, China and Europe. I can guarantee you. Europe has no hope of competing with China.
> 
> Only the US is still competitive with China, and I see China surpassing the US in most fields within the next decade.


I wasn’t saying Europe was fully able to compete, but with a 300 billion euro investment they hoped to be as ready as they were able to afford. My point was, even this looks like unlikely now. As for the US, it is still able to keep pace and maintain its lead if it gets its act together, IF.

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## Deino

TheNoob said:


> Sounds like total bullsh*t lol




Really? But you can access this article through the archive - Наступление России и нового мира.

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## RescueRanger

Englishman said:


> Idiots
> 
> Don't they know there's no good curry in Ukraine? What are they going to eat?


Your liz truss has really gone and f’d up big time now. This is going to be a free for all.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

dBSPL said:


> really? This is exactly what they are supposed to do anyway. Asymmetric warfare. I think you don't understand what the war in Ukraine has turned into now.
> 
> The number of atgm Ukraine currently has and will soon receive is probably over 50,000. That's why they brought the war to the cities.
> 
> Ukraine's aim is not to win the war. JUST, NOT being SURRENDER. Because as this process continues, the Atlantic pact will continue to beat Russia economically and psychologically.



Unfortunately Russians started with the idea that Ukrainians were going to break on contact or not resist after a few planes are downed. 

They didn't expect this heavy resistance, but they do have a plan for this situation. It's going to get ugly.


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498449960190320642

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## RescueRanger

Some of the “liberation” force asking themselves the million dollar question right about now:


----------



## terry5

HAIDER said:


> Mr. Leon should offer his service when Russia invades Carrabean .... right now his presence is not suitable in Ukraine for his personal security.


Wait ... what lol 
Mr Leon wouldn’t last a day here if he tries anything 
The mosquitos would be enough for him lol

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## RescueRanger

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498449960190320642








Oh very old school 👍.

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## LeGenD

Total count of Russian cruise missiles used for striking targets in Ukraine as of 28-02-22 = *113*






Total count of Russian cruise (and ballistic missiles) used for striking targets in Ukraine as of 28-02-22 = *380*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498338684822769666

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498440820260802561



Some of the Ukrainian propaganda has been shown to be fake. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498415759512453125

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498414885402816513

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498412720449798150

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498412232459403264

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## Wood

Kraetoz said:


> Sports should never be political or choose sides. Shame on UEFA and FIFA.


Apartheid South Africa comes to mind

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## mkg00179504

mb444 said:


> Would UK really face off a nuclear country over a non entity that is Ukraine.
> 
> Bozo and truss will bark for a few days and allow in Ukrainian fruit pickers but thats about it.
> 
> No one is going to fight for ukaraine and no ones going to deliver any weapons. Its all talk...the media frenzy is a sign of desperation.
> 
> As they say the first casualty of war is the truth. I do not buy that ukranians are putting up an effective defense and nor do i buy that russian invasion is going according ro their plan.
> 
> The truth is somewhere in the middle. From what I see russians have not really gone for shock and awe at get go. They have taken out ukranian airforce and degrading logistics surgically.
> 
> They will then encircle cities and just probe until they run out of ammunition, fuel and food. From what I see russian do not wish to damage ukraine too much and then have to pay to rebuild it.
> 
> They control ukranian borders.... they will let out civilians but probably stop anything and everything coming in. It is just a matter of time before ukraine falls... there is really no need for russia to rush.



Exactly my point. I can't believe people are falling for all this fake propaganda but can't understand that if Russia really wanted to knock out Ukraine they can do it in couple of hours and beat the hell out of it. They have the experience, machine and the men to do it . 
Russia is using its bare minimum resources and are not there to destroy Ukraine like what NATO did in Iraq. 
Right now the power grids are intact, internet is running, water is available , heat and gas is available. They are not even killing Ukrainian soldiers because they don't want people to turn against them if they did any mass killings . Its quiet unfortunate that people on this form don't understand this.

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## WinterFangs

Kraetoz said:


> Sports should never be political or choose sides. Shame on UEFA and FIFA.


They also kicked Russian teams out of the Europa league, the second best European comp after CL. Which is wrong imo as you said, sports should never be political.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498452837306621955

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498453910150950912

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## lastofthepatriots

Oublious said:


>


Mary poppins army to the rescue. At this point they should just offer contracts to the taliban.

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## PakAlp

QWECXZ said:


> You had me rolling on the floor when you said that no one is scared of Russia's conventional threats.
> 
> In 5 days, they have managed to occupy a territory that is equal to 4 small European countries. I have many European friends, they are scared shitless right now.
> And Ukraine is still one of the better prepared European countries. How many small European countries do you think Russia can invade in a week? My guess would be 5, at least.
> 
> Baltic countries would fall like autumn leaves. And let's not forget that Russia is not employing even 20% of its active personnel for this. Russia has over 3 million professionally trained personnel, including 2 million reserved personnel and 1 million active personnel. Add millions of Russian patriots and Russophile Slavs to a potential large scale war as well. And then add Russia's newer military equipment that haven't been used yet as well. It's beyond laughable to say that no one is scared of Russia's conventional capabilities.


Russia proved its might in Syria. Gave the Middle finger to the west and their mercenaries. Libya and Iraq were also close to Russia but back in 2000s Russia was alot weaker, 2022 Russia/China and Asian countries are very powerful. The west will only place sanctions on Russia, this will bring Asia/middleast more closer.

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## QWECXZ

PakAlp said:


> Russia proved their might in Syria. Gave the Middle finger to the west and their mercenaries. Libya and Iraq were also close to Russia but back in 2000s Russia was alot weaker, 2022 Russia/China and Asian countries are very powerful. The west will only place sanctions on Russia, this will bring Asia/middleast more closer.


Putin threw Iraq under the bus because he knew the US would get trapped there and high oil prices would save the Russian economy, and he wasn't wrong. Libya had little value to Russia, unlike Syria which was the only Mediterranean country where Russia, instead of the US, had military presence. And even in Syria, Russia started getting involved only when Assad had managed to remain in power after 4 years against all odds. Russia didn't want to take a risk. Putin waited to see how things would develop and got involved only when he realized that Assad stood a chance and Russia's interests would be served. Russia is not the friend of Muslim countries, but unlike NATO, it isn't our direct enemy either.

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## gambit

kingQamaR said:


> Didn’t Eu and Nato do exactly the sane by allowing Russian to steal land of Georgia And then let Putin take crimea


Yes. I never said there are no appeaser on our side. Appeasers are everywhere.



Indian Libertarian said:


> Who is being appeased?


Russia.


----------



## Abid123

I think the attack on Kiev is gonna start soon.

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## LeGenD

mkg00179504 said:


> Exactly my point. I can't believe people are falling for all this fake propaganda but can't understand that if Russia really wanted to knock out Ukraine they can do it in couple of hours and beat the hell out of it. They have the experience, machine and the men to do it .
> Russia is using its bare minimum resources and are not there to destroy Ukraine like what NATO did in Iraq.
> Right now the power grids are intact, internet is running, water is available , heat and gas is available. They are not even killing Ukrainian soldiers because they don't want people to turn against them if they did any mass killings . Its quiet unfortunate that people on this form don't understand this.


Russian defense budget is lower than that of KSA in current times. Blind shelling = wastage of munitions.

The ongoing Russian military operation in Ukraine is much greater in its scale and scope than Russian military operations witnessed in Syria and Georgia respectively. A lot have happened in a span of 5 days but you will have to go through the entire thread to check relevant updates.

_There has already been growing evidence that Russian forces have been carrying out indiscriminate attacks across Ukraine since the invasion began. “The Russian military has shown a blatant disregard for civilian lives by using ballistic missiles and other explosive weapons with wide-area effects in densely populated areas,” Agnès Callamard, Amnesty International’s secretary-general, said in a statement from February 25, after the opening wave of strikes against Kharkiv, and other objectives. _- Thomas Newdick (The War Zone)

Big cities will not turn to rubble over night, however.

NATO did not carpet bomb Iraq either - majority of the strikes were PRECISION against high value targets.


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498457873881481221

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## RescueRanger

Turkey Warns Against Sending Warships to Black Sea


Turkey has warned all countries against sending warships to the Black Sea through strategic access points it controls, the Turkish foreign minister said Monday, in a likely signal against Russia bringing additional naval firepower into the region. Turkey has yet to receive any requests for navy shi




www.wsj.com





Erdogan just played judo!

Turkey will deny passage to ALL warships through its straits towards the Black Sea. 

So what started as a possible anti-Russia op turned into an ANTI-NATO op.

After all Russian vessels are ALREADY in the Black Sea. 

Brilliant.

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## dBSPL

Which country will deliver how many jets to the Ukrainian army?

Bulgaria: 16 MiG-29s
Bulgaria: 14 SU-25s
Poland: 28 MiG-29s
Slovakia: 12 MiG-29s

(These countries have already bought or are planning to buy new 'western' jets to replace the old soviet planes.)

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> Which country will deliver how many jets to the Ukrainian army?
> 
> Bulgaria: 16 MiG-29s
> Bulgaria: 14 SU-25s
> Poland: 28 MiG-29s
> Slovakia: 12 MiG-29s
> 
> (These countries have already bought or are planning to buy new 'western' jets to replace the old soviet planes.)


Bottom of the barrel stuff those Bulgarian SU-25’s.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498451079654170624


----------



## Englishman

RescueRanger said:


> Your liz truss has really gone and f’d up big time now. This is going to be a free for all.



Johnson needs to think about the people of Britain.

The tories masterfully lined their pockets over the last few years and managed to make incredible sums of financial gain during the covid pandemic. £ Billions worth of contracts handed to companies that appeared out of thin air for example. Unfortunately, most of my countrymen are too docile or perhaps too thick to see it.

For once, they need to not think of lining their pockets and need to act in our best interest - whatever that may be. If it's a more aggressive stance towards Russia then so be it however I don't want their decisions compromised by financial gain.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498445333667459076

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## RescueRanger

Englishman said:


> Johnson needs right now to think about the people of Britain.
> 
> The tories have masterfully lined their pockets over the last few years and managed to make incredible sums of financial gain during the covid pandemic. Billions of pounds worth of contracts handed to companies that literally appeared out of thin air for example. Unfortunately, most of my countrymen are too docile or perhaps too thick to see it.
> 
> For once, they need to not think of lining their pockets and need to act in our best interest - whatever that may be. If it's a more aggressive stance towards Russia then so be it however I don't want their decisions compromised by financial gain.


Well I have a soft spot for the UK so I truly hope that whatever decision your leadership make, it’s in the national interest and they don’t pull a Mr. David Cameron by initiating Brexit and running away with a multi million pound portfolio 😂.

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## dBSPL

Really strange things are happening.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498454947800793092

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## terry5

‘Double standards’: Western coverage of Ukraine war criticised​AlJazeera​


> *Social media users accuse the media of hypocrisy in its coverage of Russia’s war on Ukraine compared with other conflicts.*
> 
> As the Russian invasion of Ukraine continues into a fourth day, an outpouring of support for Ukrainians has been witnessed across much of Europe, Australia, and the West in general.
> 
> The war began on Thursday after Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered his forces to enter Ukraine, following months of a heavy military build-up on the border.
> 
> Ukraine’s health minister said at least 198 Ukrainians, including three children, have been killed so far during the invasion. The United Nations says more than 360,000 Ukrainians have fled the country, with the majority crossing the border into neighbouring Poland.
> 
> The war has triggered swift condemnation by several countries, immediate sanctions by the United States and other countries targeting Russian banks, oil refineries, and military exports, and marathon emergency talks at the UN Security Council (UNSC).
> 
> On social media, the speed of such an international response – which includes the exclusion of Russia from some cultural events and treatment of it as a pariah in sports – has raised eyebrows at the lack of such a reaction to other conflicts across the world.
> 
> Media pundits, journalists, and political figures have been accused of double standards for using their outlets to not only commend Ukraine’s armed resistance to Russian troops, but also to underlying their horror at how such a conflict could happen to a “civilised” nation.
> 
> CBS News senior correspondent in Kyiv Charlie D’Agata said on Friday: “This isn’t a place, with all due respect, like Iraq or Afghanistan that has seen conflict raging for decades. This is a relatively civilised, relatively European – I have to choose those words carefully, too – city where you wouldn’t expect that, or hope that it’s going to happen.”
> 
> His comments were met with derision and anger on social media, with many pointing out how his statements contributed to the further dehumanisation of non-white, non-European people suffering under a conflict within mainstream media.
> 
> D’Agata later apologised, saying he spoke “in a way I regret”.
> 
> On Saturday, the BBC hosted Ukraine’s former deputy general prosecutor, David Sakvarelidze.
> 
> “It’s very emotional for me because I see European people with blonde hair and blue eyes being killed every day with Putin’s missiles and his helicopters and his rockets,” Sakvarelidze said.
> 
> The BBC presenter responded: “I understand and of course respect the emotion.”
> 
> On Sunday, Al Jazeera English presenter Peter Dobbie described Ukrainians fleeing the war as “prosperous, middle class people” who “are not obviously refugees trying to get away from areas in the Middle East that are still in a big state of war; these are not people trying to get away from areas in North Africa, they look like any European family that you would live next door to.”
> 
> The media network later issued an apology, saying the comments “were inappropriate, insensitive, and irresponsible”.
> 
> “Al Jazeera English is committed to impartiality, diversity and professionalism in all its work. This breach of that professionalism will be dealt with through disciplinary measures,” it said in a statement.
> 
> Meanwhile on Friday, Sky News broadcast a video of people in the central Ukrainian city of Dnipro making Molotov cocktails, explaining how grating Styrofoam makes the incendiary device stick to vehicles better.
> 
> “Amazing mainstream Western media gives glowing coverage of people resisting invasion by making molotov cocktails,” one social media user remarked. “If they were brown people in Yemen or Palestine doing the same they would be labeled terrorists deserving US-Israeli or US-Saudi drone bombing.”
> 
> On BFM TV, France’s most-watched cable news channel, journalist Philippe Corbe said: “We’re not talking here about Syrians fleeing the bombing of the Syrian regime backed by Putin, we’re talking about Europeans leaving in cars that look like ours to save their lives.”
> 
> British journalist Daniel Hannan was criticised online for an article in The Telegraph, in which he wrote that war no longer happens in “impoverished and remote populations”.
> 
> European politicians have also expressed support for open borders towards Ukrainian refugees, using terminology such as “intellectuals” and “European” – a far cry from the fear-mongering used by governments against migrants and refugees from Africa, the Middle East and Central Asia.
> 
> “Skin is a passport … epidermal citizenship,” one social media user said.
> 
> Jean-Louis Bourlanges, a member of the French National Assembly, told a TV channel that the Ukrainian refugees will be “an immigration of great quality, intellectuals, one that we will be able to take advantage of”.
> 
> The Russia-Ukraine war has been billed by liberal media as Europe’s worst security crisis since the end of World War II, contributing to the general amnesia of relatively recent conflicts on the continent such as the Bosnian war in the 1990s and the Northern Ireland conflict that lasted from the 1960s until 1998.
> 
> Absent from such generalisations was the fact that in the post-World War era, Europe exported many wars in countries that were previous colonial entities.
> 
> Some commentators have also heaped praise on the steadfastness of Ukrainians and the country’s defence capabilities, in a way that they suggested no other nation or people have undergone such an experience before.
> 
> Critics pointed out the hypocrisy of crowdsourcing and setting up online donations to fund Kyiv’s military without facing any government backlash or suspension of their monetary accounts.
> 
> The double standards regarding calls for excluding Russia from cultural and sporting events and not extending the same move to other occupying entities have not been lost on social media either.
> 
> Examples were drawn between the Palestinian Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement against Israel – often touted by Western governments as anti-Semitic – and the current exclusion of Moscow from events such as the Eurovision contest and stripping the Champions League final from St Petersburg.
> 
> Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison has backed the boycott of Russia from sports, but criticised the boycott of last month’s Sydney Cultural Festival over receiving sponsorship from the Israeli embassy.
> 
> Claudia Webbe, a British member of parliament, tweeted that the people who genuinely care about Ukrainians are the ones who will welcome all refugees with open arms.





> The rest?” she posted, “Well, they’re pretending.”

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## The SC

Ukraine displays the dead Russians..but unfortunately during filming one of the dead forgot that he was killed😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498370121399783425

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## nang2

The SC said:


> Ukraine displays the dead Russians..but unfortunately during filming one of the dead forgot that he was killed😂
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498370121399783425


Miracle!

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498464775965220865


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## Paul2

RescueRanger said:


> Bottom of the barrel stuff those Bulgarian SU-25’s.



SU25 is a very potent plane by firepower. It can take up to 160 unguided 80mm. Excellent against convoys of soft targets.

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## INS_Vikrant

RescueRanger said:


> Turkey Warns Against Sending Warships to Black Sea
> 
> 
> Turkey has warned all countries against sending warships to the Black Sea through strategic access points it controls, the Turkish foreign minister said Monday, in a likely signal against Russia bringing additional naval firepower into the region. Turkey has yet to receive any requests for navy shi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wsj.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Erdogan just played judo!
> 
> Turkey will deny passage to ALL warships through its straits towards the Black Sea.
> 
> So what started as a possible anti-Russia op turned into an ANTI-NATO op.
> 
> After all Russian vessels are ALREADY in the Black Sea.
> 
> Brilliant.




US to Turkey






Turkey to US

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498466755454373896

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## The SC

Zelensky dancing 

https://defense-arab.com/vb/data/video/461/461392-bd294d051444583d9a5f14e67a96e96d.mp4

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## _Nabil_

dBSPL said:


> Which country will deliver how many jets to the Ukrainian army?
> 
> Bulgaria: 16 MiG-29s
> Bulgaria: 14 SU-25s
> Poland: 28 MiG-29s
> Slovakia: 12 MiG-29s
> 
> (These countries have already bought or are planning to buy new 'western' jets to replace the old soviet planes.)




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498429215611527173

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498467554863591433

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498440837830782978

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## RescueRanger

Paul2 said:


> SU25 is a very potent plane by firepower. It can take up to 160 unguided 80mm. Excellent against convoys of soft targets.


I say it for this reason:





__





Sofia gives go-ahead for Su-25 overhaul, upgrade


On 27 February the Bulgarian government approved funding for the agreement between the Bulgarian Ministry of Defence (MoD) and Belarus’s 558th Aircraft Repair Plant (558...



www.janes.com





Keep in mind that these aircraft will be a “soft loan” so why should the Ukrainians settle for the fleet of SU-25 half of which haven’t been overhauled and have 800 or so flight hours remaining.

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## QWECXZ

Abid123 said:


> I think the attack on Kiev is gonna start soon.


Yes, it seems very likely. They asked the citizens to leave the city from the southwest.
Yesterday they were trying to encircle Kiev from the left and the right (although the eastern front won't be near Kiev today)
The Russian troops are already invading the northern part of Kiev. 
Yesterday they were trying to negotiate, even though both sides knew that negotiation is useless. Now it's time for Putin to get a little bit more serious.

The real attack on Kiev will start soon. Either today or tomorrow. It seems that they have already neutralized Ukraine's air defense and they can support their ground troops now.


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## The SC

The process of transferring all the forces designated for the war in Ukraine to the mobilization points took very long months!!!

Watch this video for example (10 months old)






Russia is one of the major exporters of mineral ores and energy. If it decided to sell its goods in gold or a second currency to defy America because of the sanctions, and the market could not adequately compensate for Russian exports, the financial system based on making the dollar a settlement system would be damaged in one way or another..

Today everyone should know that Putin still has the third world war card in his hand ..

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## kingQamaR

Russia never envisioned Ukrainians neighbours will openly come to its help I’m shocked to on this. Donating polish fighter planes if this is true Russian bluff has been called and it is hollow. Russians appear to be completely paralysed in halting anything coming in to Ukraine

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## Clutch

Thinker3 said:


> No one thought a war of this scale is possible in Europe in the 21st century, but it is happening, if the west will take Nuclear threat lightly and continue to push Russia against the wall then it can lead to Nuclear exchange.





mkg00179504 said:


> Exactly my point. I can't believe people are falling for all this fake propaganda but can't understand that if Russia really wanted to knock out Ukraine they can do it in couple of hours and beat the hell out of it. They have the experience, machine and the men to do it .
> Russia is using its bare minimum resources and are not there to destroy Ukraine like what NATO did in Iraq.
> Right now the power grids are intact, internet is running, water is available , heat and gas is available. They are not even killing Ukrainian soldiers because they don't want people to turn against them if they did any mass killings . Its quiet unfortunate that people on this form don't understand this.



People generally think in binary terms. Good versus evil. Positive versus negative. They forgot that the real world is a lot more complex. 

Really... There is no good versus bad here. Russia had legitimate concerns that NATO did not address. Ukraine has a right to self determination but should not become a hub for extremist Nazi ideology. Not all Ukrainians are Nazi. Just like not all Russians are pro-Putin. 

So it's a lot more complex.

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## Paul2

RescueRanger said:


> I say it for this reason:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sofia gives go-ahead for Su-25 overhaul, upgrade
> 
> 
> On 27 February the Bulgarian government approved funding for the agreement between the Bulgarian Ministry of Defence (MoD) and Belarus’s 558th Aircraft Repair Plant (558...
> 
> 
> 
> www.janes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep in mind that these aircraft will be a “soft loan” so why should the Ukrainians settle for the fleet of SU-25 half of which haven’t been overhauled and have 800 or so flight hours remaining.



Givem their circumstances, everything should go. You don't need top avionics to drop 160 missiles on a convoy

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## RescueRanger

INS_Vikramaditya said:


> US to Turkey
> View attachment 819668
> 
> 
> Turkey to US
> View attachment 819669


Hahah 😂

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## Saho

Seeing that their plan A has failed, will Russia resort to their usual shock and awe and seige this time?

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## Titanium100

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498464775965220865



That is absolutely mindblowing convoy


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498406890526683142

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498469865794985993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498471464185569282

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## The SC

Urgent ..Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan in a speech to his people:

Pakistan will import natural gas and wheat from Russia.. I announce to you a reduction in gasoline prices by 10 Pakistani rupees.









Khan After Putin Visit: Pakistan to Import Wheat, Gas from Russia


Prime Minister presses ahead with long-planned two-day trip hours after Russian forces invaded Ukraine




www.voanews.com

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## Khanate

terry5 said:


> ‘Double standards’: Western coverage of Ukraine war criticised​AlJazeera​




*AMEJA took notice*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498042762654015490
*Africa Archives thread*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497958622545989637

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## RescueRanger

Khanate said:


> *AMEJA took notice*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498042762654015490
> *Africa Archives thread*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497958622545989637



Good keep up the pressure, ask your friends and family outside Pakistan to raise this with their congress / parliamentary representatives and focus groups.

They must remember and remember well to not ever use language like this again. We must learn from and adopt the tactics of the BLM movement if we are to have people respect the sanctity and self esteem of people from Latin America, Africa, MENA and Asia.

Russia to withdraw all diplomats from Canada. - AP wire.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498473697207853056

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## Khanate

China 🤝 Russia​Gazprom Paves Way to New China Gas Deal as Sanctions Hit Russia​

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## khansaheeb

nang2 said:


> You do know that there are rail links between Russia and China, don't you?


They only know what uncle Sam gives to them.


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## Raja Porus

Inception-06 said:


> @Desert Fox 1 as written and said by you and also many other Members Drones have become the weapon of choice for the Ukraine, this are the key future tool for surveillance and destroying targets, the Russian neglected it to integrate this weapon system in a cohesive manner with their combine warfare doctrine and way to fight, while Pakistan and the rest of the world ordered it and exercised this weapon years ago ! I am happy that Pakistan has Turkeys help and partnership in the new art of warfare. Turkey Pakistan Brothership Zindabad - Long life ! But still I can’t believe that the Ukraines are doing the Drone game alone, the Drones are operated faith the help from outside and the losses are refilled for example by Poland.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498324064527691777


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## The SC

Opinion poll: 68% of Russian citizens support the Russian military operation in Ukraine

https://interfax.com/newsroom/top-stories/74819/

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## EAGLE777

Muhammed45 said:


> *Western hypocrisy *
> 
> 
> View attachment 819511
> 
> View attachment 819512
> 
> View attachment 819513
> 
> View attachment 819514
> 
> View attachment 819515
> 
> View attachment 819516


Ulan your country did this to Syrians.

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## Khanate

*Afghanistan 2.0*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498431202230996992

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## Indian Libertarian

I’ve been hearing a lot that this war and the sanctions are going to cause large political instability in Russia. How would a revolution or other opposition play out?


----------



## CrazyZ

Khanate said:


> China 🤝 Russia​Gazprom Paves Way to New China Gas Deal as Sanctions Hit Russia​


Asian economy collectively is larger then the rest of worlds economy. Makes sense for Russia to redirect exports to Asian nations from Europe. Europe is the biggest loser from this conflict.

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## CrazyZ

Indian Libertarian said:


> I’ve been hearing a lot that this war and the sanctions are going to cause large political instability in Russia. How would a revolution or other opposition play out?


My guess is that their will be volatility during the initial transitions. Since Russia is largely self sufficient and Asia is remaining neutral with its economy collectively bigger then the western blocs....Russia will ride this out in time.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

kingQamaR said:


> Russia never envisioned Ukrainians neighbours will openly come to its help I’m shocked to on this. Donating polish fighter planes if this is true Russian bluff has been called and it is hollow. Russians appear to be completely paralysed in halting anything coming in to Ukraine



I read a report today that the Russian air force is completely monitoring Ukraine's borders. But seriously, after neutralizing Ukrainian air defenses, what would those Mig-29s achieve against Russia? This is 1-sided conflict and Ukraine has no chance at this point. They've been overwhelmed. The sooner Zelensky takes a deal, the better it is for Ukraine and its people. This is heading to a wholesale massacre unless an agreement is reached that brings the conflicts to a halt.

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## monitor

At the moment, military pilots from Ukraine are in Poland. Today they receive 29 Polish MiG-29s. With full weapons and electronics.





Nato awacs in Poland will provide full information to Ukraine

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## Raja Porus

A logistics convoy almost 17 mile long heading towards kyiv.. It'd have been a sumptuous target for any functional airforce. However if the Russians have the audacity to move such a long convoy then it means that the Ukrainian airforce haa been neutralised. The picture of the the Skies isn't as rosey.

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## The SC

Germany will provide anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles to Ukraine, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz announced on Saturday, in a major policy reversal for Berlin.

Scholz’s decision to supply 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 Stinger missiles to the Ukrainian military, which is facing three lines of Russian assault, comes as other NATO allies are also sending more military aid to Ukraine.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/02/26/germany-weapons-ukraine-russia-war-anti-tank-stinger/






And/Or

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## patero

CrazyZ said:


> Asian economy collectively is larger then the rest of worlds economy. Makes sense for Russia to redirect exports to Asian nations from Europe. Europe is the biggest loser from this conflict.


Not quite, its 38.7% by nominal GDP. And you can remove Japan and several other countries from the potential markets for Russian exports. It doesn't make sense to just export to Asia instead of Europe, how long is it going to take to build new pipelines to get Russias main export to Asia?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498479875115606017


----------



## PakLeader

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I feel bad about Ukrainian army. All they can do is hit and run. This army is really outgunned. What was their leadership doing all of those years and didn't prepare their armed forces for battle like this one?
> 
> Ukrainian leadership has really missed a great opportunity: They should've opted non-aligned status and refused any Western influences that were setting them against Russia. With such an apparent weakness, they should've opted as the same status as Switzerland, Finland, and Sweden.



Exactly...very well said. Unfortunately that's what happens when you have a president whose qualifications to be President was being an actor playing a president on TV and having your brain washed by NATO....lol

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498490160870313987
They are really looking for it! 😂

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## CrazyZ

They got sanctioned by the EU and kicked out swift.......they have to work through Asia now.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498464775965220865

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498487466696843265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498492718225686528


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498354003733745664

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## patero

CrazyZ said:


> They got sanctioned by the EU and kicked out swift.......they have to work through Asia now.


How are they going to deliver their primary export, natural gas, to Asian markets?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498394778286886917


----------



## zartosht

What we see: 

-Day by day Russians capturing more territory. 
-Massive Russian columns moving in broad daylight ( a sure sign of air dominance)
-Russians were inside the capital by day 3, now they are tightening the noose around it by the minute.
-Russians capturing Cities
-no evidence of a functional ukrainian airforce, besides a few drones here and there. Which at best will harrass the Russians, but will be a drop in the ocean in terms of stopping the invasion. And what we dont see, is for every sucessfull drone strike, they dont show you the 10 others that were shot down.


on the west side: 

absolute nothing but propaganda and lies: 

-Case in point, their 13 hercules on that snake island. Which became a "mainstream media hit" and they were given medals by the president for their "martyrdom" ... I dont know how anyone can take the ukies seriously after this?

Random pictures of a single armored vehicle knocked out here and there, with many ending up being fakes. 
-Western media literally censoring the Russian media, and broadcasting outrageously one sided stories ,and routinely end up being fake.

Meanwhile ukraine is losing ground steadily. And are probably taking unbeivable casualties. Imagine trying to make a pitched stance against an army with complete dominance in the air and artillery. Its been an absolute slaughter so far. And the maps dont lie (western media certainly does though)

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## The SC

Zakharova called the delivery of lethal weapons by Germany to Ukraine an outrageous gesture​
According to Zakharova, the Federal Republic of Germany, by its decision, is calling “the ghosts of not a cold war, but the most hot war.”

https://pledgetimes.com/zakharova-c...-by-germany-to-ukraine-an-outrageous-gesture/


----------



## The SC

The White House is closely monitoring the Russian military convoy that, according to new satellite images released by Maxar, has reached the outskirts of Kyiv and appears to be more than 40 miles long, APA reports citing CNN.


----------



## FuturePAF

“We were told that they would welcome us”
Young men have been sent to their deaths with that lie far to many times.

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## Muhammed45

SilentEagle said:


> Ulan your country did this to Syrians.


Let's not go off topic. But for sake of the record, it wasn't Iran that bought ISIS oil and armed Al Qaeda to the teeth. 

Syria suffered in the hands of the so called coalition that armed head Choppers. Same goes on in Yemen, previously Iraq, Afghanistan Libya etc. Not to mention that the same savage that armed ISIS in Syria stained its filthy hands to Libyan blood. Guess the rest

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## Clutch

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I feel bad about Ukrainian army. All they can do is hit and run. This army is really outgunned. What was their leadership doing all of those years and didn't prepare their armed forces for battle like this one?
> 
> Ukrainian leadership has really missed a great opportunity: They should've opted non-aligned status and refused any Western influences that were setting them against Russia. With such an apparent weakness, they should've opted as the same status as Switzerland, Finland, and Sweden.



Easy... You get a clown to become a "democratically elected puppet" using the CIA coup.... so you can use the useful idiot as a fall guy...

Zelensky of Ukraine was their useful idiot... His incompetence brought the Russian wrath upon the common folks of Ukraine. Why did he push for the NATO alliance
.. makes no sense. Now the Russians are trying to do a regime change...

We have them in Pakistan as well: Nawaz (aka Modi's bum-chums)... Maryam (aka daddy's bum-chum)... Bilawal (aka any man's bum-chum) and finally Diesel Fazal Mullah (Bilawal's bum-chum).

With "treasonous" puppets like these who needs enemies..????...

Truth is the new terrorism.

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## kursed

The sheer amount of disinfo in this campaign puts to shame anything we saw in the aftermath of Balakot strikes and SR. This is a whole new level of misinformation.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498492690832502786

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## Bengal71

The SC said:


> The process of transferring all the forces designated for the war in Ukraine to the mobilization points took very long months!!!
> 
> Watch this video for example (10 months old)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia is one of the major exporters of mineral ores and energy. If it decided to sell its goods in gold or a second currency to defy America because of the sanctions, and the market could not adequately compensate for Russian exports, the financial system based on making the dollar a settlement system would be damaged in one way or another..
> 
> Today everyone should know that Putin still has the third world war card in his hand ..



But which country will buy their good in gold or other currency? The US is going to sanction them too.

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## Stealth



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## Flight of falcon

kursed said:


> The sheer amount of disinfo in this campaign puts to shame anything we saw in the aftermath of Balakot strikes and SR. This is a whole new level of misinformation.




The irony is that this joker of a president destroyed his entire country to join NATO but yet NATO is just standing and watching them get destroyed…..

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## khansaheeb

Thinker3 said:


> And if people think they can push Russia against the wall, sanction them to point of economic collapse, send the latest weapons that are killing Russian troops, send people to fight Russian Troops, isolate Russia Internationally, exclude them from the world, cripple their currency, stop their trade and then think that somehow this will force Russia to submission and Russia will just sit back and let itself collapse without retaliating then that is just wishful thinking and ignorance.


Well it may end up like this:-

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## Muhammed45

Syrian Foreign minister Al Ja'fari





"Terrorists in Syria and neo-Nazis in Ukraine take orders from the same place, and both employers are the same," Syrian Deputy Foreign Minister Bashar al-Ja'fari told Russia's Sputnik news agency.

According to the Syrian official, the government of Damascus has documents showing that the American occupier recruits terrorists on Syrian soil and transports them to fight elsewhere.

Emphasizing the impossibility of ignoring Russia's role in the international equation, Ja'fari stressed that Russian President Vladimir Putin was in a defensive position at the time of the decision to conduct special military operations in Ukraine, and that this decision was not considered offensive at all.

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## Flight of falcon

Watching CNN live and they are showing how Ukrainians are beating black and coloured people and making them walk for miles to safety and still not letting them cross the border and only white Ukrainians are allowed to board buses ….. sounds like Putin is right when he talks about Neo Nazis in control. 

Black people are thrown out of trains and buses on gun point.

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## HAIDER

Seems March 2nd is D Day.



terry5 said:


> Wait ... what lol
> Mr Leon wouldn’t last a day here if he tries anything
> The mosquitos would be enough for him lol


Mr Leon misunderstood Ukraine... someone should explain to him, there is no public aid office or subsidized housing or lunch in Ukraine.


یہ تصویر عراق کے دارالحکومت بغداد کی 2004 کی ہے ۔۔۔ اس تصویر میں یوکرینی ٹینک کو وسطی بغداد میں دندناتے ہوئے دیکھا جاسکتا ہے ۔۔۔ یوکرین نے نیٹو کا میمبر نہ ہوتے ہوئے بھی نیٹو کی سپورٹ میں 5000 فوجی بھیجے تھے ۔۔۔۔۔۔۔
یہ تصویر ہمارے ان پاکستانی بھائیوں کے لیے ہے جن کے پیٹ میں درد آٹھ رہا ہے کہ اس طرح ایک ملک پر حملہ ناانصافی ہے ۔۔۔ لیکن ان کے لیے عرض ہے کہ یہ مکافاتِ عمل ہے ۔۔۔ اگر آپ کسی کے ساتھ زیادتی میں کبھی شریک بھی ہونگے تو آپ کو یا آپ کی نسل کو کبھی نہ کبھی ویسی ہی زیادتی کا سامنا کرنا پڑسکتا ہے ۔۔۔۔۔۔

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## khansaheeb

coffee_cup said:


> In fact, Pakistan is considered one of the least racist countries in the world. There was this report published few years back.


I remember when I was a child and was with my uncles in Karachi when I saw some black people across the road, and I said to my uncles oh look there are black people here, they looked around and couldn't understand what I was talking about and then I pointed them and the look I got from them stuck in me for the rest of my life. It was then I realised that they had no concept of brown/black/white and it was the discriminatory/racist colonial language/mentality/disease that I had caught and suffered from and which I had brought from the UK.

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## K_Bin_W

zartosht said:


> What we see:
> 
> -Day by day Russians capturing more territory.
> -Massive Russian columns moving in broad daylight ( a sure sign of air dominance)
> -Russians were inside the capital by day 3, now they are tightening the noose around it by the minute.
> -Russians capturing Cities
> -no evidence of a functional ukrainian airforce, besides a few drones here and there. Which at best will harrass the Russians, but will be a drop in the ocean in terms of stopping the invasion. And what we dont see, is for every sucessfull drone strike, they dont show you the 10 others that were shot down.
> 
> 
> on the west side:
> 
> absolute nothing but propaganda and lies:
> 
> -Case in point, their 13 hercules on that snake island. Which became a "mainstream media hit" and they were given medals by the president for their "martyrdom" ... I dont know how anyone can take the ukies seriously after this?
> 
> Random pictures of a single armored vehicle knocked out here and there, with many ending up being fakes.
> -Western media literally censoring the Russian media, and broadcasting outrageously one sided stories ,and routinely end up being fake.
> 
> Meanwhile ukraine is losing ground steadily. And are probably taking unbeivable casualties. Imagine trying to make a pitched stance against an army with complete dominance in the air and artillery. Its been an absolute slaughter so far. And the maps dont lie (western media certainly does though)



If you want a balanced view / ground realities the 1st action should be to flush western media/sources.. Anyone who trusts the west is the biggest moron, their media is all lies and one-sided BS.

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## CrazyZ

patero said:


> How are they going to deliver their primary export, natural gas, to Asian markets?


As I stated above....their will be a transition period. They already have pipelines connections to China and CAR. In the future this will no doubt be expanded.

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## The SC

Bengal71 said:


> But which country will buy their good in gold or other currency? The US is going to sanction them too.


They are just exchanges of commodities.. no need to declare them..Gold can be moved by air or sea or even land if close by..

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## K_Bin_W

Stealth said:


> View attachment 819700


LMAO.... I was hoping the good old USA will liberate Ukraine just like it has been liberating other countries and bringing democracy to them.....

On a side note, you know what Russkies will do this MC so better stay home and safe after all COVID can be quite deadly... lol


----------



## HAIDER

lolzzz

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## K_Bin_W

HAIDER said:


> View attachment 819709


LAMO... Next time PUTIN Amreeka and Europe so the rest of the world lives in peace..

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## FuturePAF

India trying to save face after two abstentions

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## CrazyZ

Bengal71 said:


> But which country will buy their good in gold or other currency? The US is going to sanction them too.


IMO, most countries will start trading with Russia using CIPS, the Chinese swift equivalent. India wants to create its INR-Ruble trading mechanism. Neither China or India will be sanctioned by the USA or EU. Russian has huge natural resources. Climate change will enhance its agricultural output. It has talented HR. Developing countries in Asia, Africa and Latin America cannot ignore it.

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## The SC

*Russia's ambassador to Washington*: We reject the hostile approach of the US administration against our country..

alarabiya.net

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## patero

CrazyZ said:


> As I stated above....their will be a transition period. They already have pipelines connections to China and CAR. In the future this will no doubt be expanded.


You're clutching at straws. The simple fact is that Russia cannot easily replace the European markets for its main exports. Putin has seriously miscalculated the consequences of his actions and Russia will pay a heavy price in the long run.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498516965941514240

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## CrazyZ

patero said:


> You're clutching at straws. The simple fact is that Russia cannot easily replace the European markets for its main exports. Putin has seriously miscalculated the consequences of his actions and Russia will pay a heavy price in the long run.


Russia is largely self sufficient. It may have a hard time getting BMW's.......but is that really a problem? That will hurt EU as well. History has a tendency to repeat itself....and Russia has shown resilience in far more devastating situations. My guess is that they will do it again.

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## Gripen9

patero said:


> You're clutching at straws. The simple fact is that Russia cannot easily replace the European markets for its main exports. Putin has seriously miscalculated the consequences of his actions and Russia will pay a heavy price in the long run.


Same can be said about the Europeans. They can’t easily replace gas from Russia? 50% German gas comes from Russia.

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## mingle

kursed said:


> The sheer amount of disinfo in this campaign puts to shame anything we saw in the aftermath of Balakot strikes and SR. This is a whole new level of misinformation.


Bad thing about disinfo is when U knowingly start believing on it whole West is suck into it not good at all remember last yr taliban vs Ghani?


----------



## The SC

Away from media lies:

The army of Russia has reached more than 60km of armor on the walls of Kyiv and SU-34s are frolicking in the skies of Ukraine..

Someone comes to you filming a clip of a burned tank, telling you the Russians suffered many losses... in fact Russia's losses are 3% of the 0.02 of Russia's forces..

The strategic forces are on standby if they are issues from the west of any foolishness..

In less than two weeks Russia will swallow Ukraine and make changes to the regime..

The Russian bear is not only angry but also hungry..

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## A1Kaid

It took US/NATO 1 month and 1 week to defeat Saddam's forces in Iraq with 100k-130k troops (US) + x NATO. Russia is doing pretty good in just 5 days. I am seeing signs Kyiv will fall in the next 2-3 days to Russia.


----------



## patero

Gripen9 said:


> Same can be said about the Europeans. They can’t easily replace gas from Russia? 50% German gas comes from Russia.


Germany will experience energy shortages and rising costs for as long as the sanctions are in place. We are all going to experience the effects of this ill conceived war for many years to come, there are no winners. But those most affected will be the Ukrainian and Russian people.

A simple question is: was this worth the cost? The cost in lives as well as the economic and politcal cost. Many Russian people are already asking that question. Violence should always be the absolute last resort, Putin was only too willing to pull the trigger, and who knows how this is going to end (badly for everybody is probably the answer).


----------



## IblinI

zartosht said:


> What we see:
> 
> -Day by day Russians capturing more territory.
> -Massive Russian columns moving in broad daylight ( a sure sign of air dominance)
> -Russians were inside the capital by day 3, now they are tightening the noose around it by the minute.
> -Russians capturing Cities
> -no evidence of a functional ukrainian airforce, besides a few drones here and there. Which at best will harrass the Russians, but will be a drop in the ocean in terms of stopping the invasion. And what we dont see, is for every sucessfull drone strike, they dont show you the 10 others that were shot down.
> 
> 
> on the west side:
> 
> absolute nothing but propaganda and lies:
> 
> -Case in point, their 13 hercules on that snake island. Which became a "mainstream media hit" and they were given medals by the president for their "martyrdom" ... I dont know how anyone can take the ukies seriously after this?
> 
> Random pictures of a single armored vehicle knocked out here and there, with many ending up being fakes.
> -Western media literally censoring the Russian media, and broadcasting outrageously one sided stories ,and routinely end up being fake.
> 
> Meanwhile ukraine is losing ground steadily. And are probably taking unbeivable casualties. Imagine trying to make a pitched stance against an army with complete dominance in the air and artillery. Its been an absolute slaughter so far. And the maps dont lie (western media certainly does though)


like this one, that the damaged military truck that belonged to the Ukraine army in 2014 is poorly photoshopped "Z" and labeled as burned Russian truck.

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## The SC

India's top lender stops handling trade with sanctioned Russian entities - sources​





https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-indias-top-lender-stops-175702495.html


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498528311840063488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498528424436109314

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498529242577084424


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## Clutch

Really great interview on if the Swift banking restrictions will work against Russia:

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## Muhammed45

The SC said:


> India's top lender stops handling trade with sanctioned Russian entities - sources​
> View attachment 819717
> 
> 
> https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-indias-top-lender-stops-175702495.html


The well known traitors. Indian backstbbers. 90 percent of their army is using Russian Hardware, pathetic losers.

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## FairAndUnbiased

patero said:


> Not quite, its 38.7% by nominal GDP. And you can remove Japan and several other countries from the potential markets for Russian exports. It doesn't make sense to just export to Asia instead of Europe, how long is it going to take to build new pipelines to get Russias main export to Asia?


the pipelines already exist.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498531137655820290


----------



## sur

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498530974388264960

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## Saho

A1Kaid said:


> It took US/NATO 1 month and 1 week to defeat Saddam's forces in Iraq with 100k-130k troops (US) + x NATO. Russia is doing pretty good in just 5 days. I am seeing signs Kyiv will fall in the next 2-3 days to Russia.


Really makes you wonder why the EU is desperate to send force and supplies. If Ukraine were doing fine like the media claims then they wouldn’t react this way.

But I really wonder what will happen after they captured Ukraine with the way Russia is being cut off to the world.

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## Tamerlane

This is an American who lives in Kiev. According to him the Zelensky regime handed out weapons to criminals and now they’re looting and raping people. If you search his name he’s made other videos. 

Gonzalo Lira


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498225986088751104

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498536931055091712


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## jamahir

The SC said:


> India's top lender stops handling trade with sanctioned Russian entities - sources​
> View attachment 819717
> 
> 
> https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-indias-top-lender-stops-175702495.html





Muhammed45 said:


> The well known traitors. Indian backstbbers. 90 percent of their army is using Russian Hardware, pathetic losers.



There are people in India who are fond of Russia but the Modi government is not one of them. The Modi government is not affiliated with bringing harmony and justice within India so why will it not support the Nazi government of Zelensky and its Western government masters, why will the Modi government not betray Russia.



Tamerlane said:


> This is an American who lives in Kiev. According to him the Zelensky regime handed out weapons to criminals and now they’re looting and raping people. If you search his name he’s made other videos.
> 
> Gonzalo Lira
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498225986088751104



Nice information, thank you. Zelensky has armed professional criminals within Ukraine and he has also called for criminals from all over the world to fight against Russia in Ukraine.

And I hope Gonzalo Lira doesn't get arrested by Ukraine government.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

One thing is certain: truth is the first causality in a war...

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## Clutch

Pakistan ‘won’t take sides’ in UN debate on Ukraine​Anwar IqbalPublished March 1, 2022 - Updated about 3 hours ago

















40

UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres speaks on the Russia-Ukraine conflict at the General Assembly emergency special session in New York, on Monday. — AFP


UNITED NATIONS: Pakistan has decided not to participate in the emergency session of the UN General Assembly that began on Monday to discuss the Ukrainian crisis.
“Pakistan has decided not to take sides on this issue,” a diplomatic source told _Dawn_. “Islamabad supports a peaceful and negotiated settlement.”

Prime Minister Imran Khan, who visited Moscow on the day the invasion began, defended his decision on Monday, saying that he was there to discuss bilateral issues only.
The General Assembly is expected to wind up its debate on Tuesday and by then representatives of more than 100 countries would have addressed the emergency session. The meeting will decide whether to support a US-sponsored resolution that demands Russia’s immediate withdrawal from Ukraine.

Ukraine’s ambassador to the UN Sergiy Kyslytsya warned the global body that “if Ukraine does not survive, the UN will not survive.”

Polish ambassador Krzysztof Szczerski told the meeting that Pakistani civilians and students were among those thousands of people who were seeking refuge in Poland and the Polish government was sheltering them.

The General Assembly has only held 10 emergency sessions since 1950, in line with a provision widely known as the ‘Uniting for Peace’ resolution.

The resolution gives the assembly the power to take up important matters when the Security Council is unable to act due to differences among its five permanent members.

A General Assembly debate is considered the world body’s second-best option because its resolutions are non-binding, unlike those of the Security Council.
The US, which initiated the debate, first went to the Security Council on Feb. 25, seeking a binding resolution, but Russia vetoed the effort.

As the debate began, UN Secretary-General António Guterres informed the assembly that while Russian strikes were largely targeting Ukrainian military facilities, they had “credible accounts” of non-military targets sustaining heavy damage.

“Enough is enough,” he said. “This escalating violence … is totally unacceptable. Soldiers need to move back to their barracks. Leaders need to move to peace.”

He also emphasized the need to respect “the sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of Ukraine, within its internationally recognized borders.”

Assembly President Abdulla Shahid informed the meeting: “As we convene here in the General Assembly, negotiators from both sides are holding talks in Belarus” to end the crisis that began last week.

Although China and India had abstained from the Feb. 25 vote in the Security Council, they participated in Monday’s debate.

China’s Permanent Representative Zhang Jun said China supports the EU, Nato and Russia resuming dialogue including the “legitimate” security concerns of all, including Moscow’s.
Russia defended its decision to invade Ukraine as member state after member state called for ending the war. Russian ambassador Vassily Nebenzia rejected the suggestion that Moscow launched the military operation to protect residents of breakaway regions in eastern Ukraine.

_Published in Dawn, March 1st, 2022_

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## patero

Saho said:


> Really makes you wonder why the EU is desperate to send force and supplies. If Ukraine were doing fine like the media claims then they wouldn’t react this way.
> 
> But I really wonder what will happen after they captured Ukraine with the way Russia is being cut off to the world.


I don't think it is possible for Russia to fully 'capture' Ukraine, they don't have the numbers to occupy the entire country and supress the on-going insurgency. It's probably going to be a long and bloody conflict with millions displaced and a death toll measured in the 100,000's, with much of the country reduced to rubble.

Putin won't back down, but neither will the Ukrainian people. That should be obvious to anybody at this point.

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## Turingsage

Kenya denounces Russia and this rise of new imperialism with a lesson from Africa's own history

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## Clutch

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> One thing is certain: truth is the first causality in a war...



I would argue even more so these days with Social Media Techno-Feudalism (social internet platform monopolies), misinformation (Fake News), and corrupt media (corporate greed)...

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## alimobin memon

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498374263346237450


Tanks have on board fire extinguishers then how will this work ?

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498539327286095873

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## Clutch

Tamerlane said:


> This is an American who lives in Kiev. According to him the Zelensky regime handed out weapons to criminals and now they’re looting and raping people. If you search his name he’s made other videos.
> 
> Gonzalo Lira
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498225986088751104



I am beginning to think the whole Zelensky regime is a Manchurian candidate (covert CIA) agent... Designed by the Banksters, Israel, and America to start a war for benefit of the war profiteers!

They needed to flush the system after the whole COVID debacle and failing fiat currency federal reserve system!

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## Avicenna

Clutch said:


> I am beginning to think the whole Zelensky regime is a Manchurian candidate (covert CIA) agent... Designed by the Banksters, Israel, and America to start a war for the war profiteers!



I think it goes beyond just profit.

But either the people that have created this are idiots.

Or they are thinking 2 levels above us.

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## Clutch

Avicenna said:


> I think it goes beyond just profit.
> 
> But either the people that have created this are idiots.
> 
> Or they are thinking 2 levels above us.


Power and control.

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## Gripen9

patero said:


> Germany will experience energy shortages and rising costs for as long as the sanctions are in place. We are all going to experience the effects of this ill conceived war for many years to come, there are no winners. But those most affected will be the Ukrainian and Russian people.
> 
> A simple question is: was this worth the cost? The cost in lives as well as the economic and politcal cost. Many Russian people are already asking that question. Violence should always be the absolute last resort, Putin was only too willing to pull the trigger, and who knows how this is going to end (badly for everybody is probably the answer).


Is it ever worth it? War is misery. Unfortunately mankind has been at it for millennia.


----------



## Avicenna

I'm not a fan of Russia.

But Putin has something when he characterizes the West as the "empire of lies".

It's true.

The Western narrative is a pile of crap.

And I'm not talking about just Ukraine.

Whether it was Iraq, or COVID or 9/11, or take your pick.

The recent history has shown this.

In addition, also look at how the Western media is used in essence as propaganda.

It's disgusting.

To be honest, if your really want know, the Russian position is actually quite reasonable.

Examine the history of this conflict and tell me otherwise.

Its the US/NATO that has caused this.

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## gambit

patero said:


> I don't think it is possible for Russia to fully 'capture' Ukraine, they don't have the numbers to occupy the entire country and supress the on-going insurgency. It's probably going to be a long and bloody conflict with millions displaced and a death toll measured in the 100,000's, with much of the country reduced to rubble.
> 
> Putin won't back down, but neither will the Ukrainian people. That should be obvious to anybody at this point.


You cannot say things like that. The bulk of this thread so far is about how powerful Russia is, how Russia is going to win, and how humiliating is America. You are deviating from orthodoxy.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Clutch said:


> Pakistan ‘won’t take sides’ in UN debate on Ukraine​Anwar IqbalPublished March 1, 2022 - Updated about 3 hours ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 40
> 
> UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres speaks on the Russia-Ukraine conflict at the General Assembly emergency special session in New York, on Monday. — AFP
> 
> 
> UNITED NATIONS: Pakistan has decided not to participate in the emergency session of the UN General Assembly that began on Monday to discuss the Ukrainian crisis.
> “Pakistan has decided not to take sides on this issue,” a diplomatic source told _Dawn_. “Islamabad supports a peaceful and negotiated settlement.”
> 
> Prime Minister Imran Khan, who visited Moscow on the day the invasion began, defended his decision on Monday, saying that he was there to discuss bilateral issues only.
> The General Assembly is expected to wind up its debate on Tuesday and by then representatives of more than 100 countries would have addressed the emergency session. The meeting will decide whether to support a US-sponsored resolution that demands Russia’s immediate withdrawal from Ukraine.
> 
> Ukraine’s ambassador to the UN Sergiy Kyslytsya warned the global body that “if Ukraine does not survive, the UN will not survive.”
> 
> Polish ambassador Krzysztof Szczerski told the meeting that Pakistani civilians and students were among those thousands of people who were seeking refuge in Poland and the Polish government was sheltering them.
> 
> The General Assembly has only held 10 emergency sessions since 1950, in line with a provision widely known as the ‘Uniting for Peace’ resolution.
> 
> The resolution gives the assembly the power to take up important matters when the Security Council is unable to act due to differences among its five permanent members.
> 
> A General Assembly debate is considered the world body’s second-best option because its resolutions are non-binding, unlike those of the Security Council.
> The US, which initiated the debate, first went to the Security Council on Feb. 25, seeking a binding resolution, but Russia vetoed the effort.
> 
> As the debate began, UN Secretary-General António Guterres informed the assembly that while Russian strikes were largely targeting Ukrainian military facilities, they had “credible accounts” of non-military targets sustaining heavy damage.
> 
> “Enough is enough,” he said. “This escalating violence … is totally unacceptable. Soldiers need to move back to their barracks. Leaders need to move to peace.”
> 
> He also emphasized the need to respect “the sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of Ukraine, within its internationally recognized borders.”
> 
> Assembly President Abdulla Shahid informed the meeting: “As we convene here in the General Assembly, negotiators from both sides are holding talks in Belarus” to end the crisis that began last week.
> 
> Although China and India had abstained from the Feb. 25 vote in the Security Council, they participated in Monday’s debate.
> 
> China’s Permanent Representative Zhang Jun said China supports the EU, Nato and Russia resuming dialogue including the “legitimate” security concerns of all, including Moscow’s.
> Russia defended its decision to invade Ukraine as member state after member state called for ending the war. Russian ambassador Vassily Nebenzia rejected the suggestion that Moscow launched the military operation to protect residents of breakaway regions in eastern Ukraine.
> 
> _Published in Dawn, March 1st, 2022_


Pak now needs geo-economics more than ever before! She has paid her dues in the geo-politics...

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## Clutch

gambit said:


> You cannot say things like that. The bulk of this thread so far is about how powerful Russia is, how Russia is going to win, and how humiliating is America. You are deviating from orthodoxy.



Diversity of of opinion is what makes for engaging discourse. Who wants to sit in an echo chamber???

I think the bias for Russia in PDF (predominantly Pakistani content site) is due to decades of American and Pakistani antagonism, mistrust, and estranged relations between the two nations...

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## Bengal71

CrazyZ said:


> IMO, most countries will start trading with Russia using CIPS, the Chinese swift equivalent. India wants to create its INR-Ruble trading mechanism. Neither China or India will be sanctioned by the USA or EU. Russian has huge natural resources. Climate change will enhance its agricultural output. It has talented HR. Developing countries in Asia, Africa and Latin America cannot ignore it.



Yeah, India and China won't be sanctioned but other countries will.


----------



## Clutch

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> Pak now needs geo-economics more than ever before! She has paid her dues in the geo-politics...



Agree 100 % ... Enough fighting wars at the behest of others only to our own detriment...

Let them fight it out.... Not our war or cause...

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## FairAndUnbiased

patero said:


> I don't think it is possible for Russia to fully 'capture' Ukraine, they don't have the numbers to occupy the entire country and supress the on-going insurgency. It's probably going to be a long and bloody conflict with millions displaced and a death toll measured in the 100,000's, with much of the country reduced to rubble.
> 
> Putin won't back down, but neither will the Ukrainian people. That should be obvious to anybody at this point.


Given current military stance, Russia will probably partition Ukraine into western Ukraine and either puppeteer or outright annex the east and south with a border on the Dnieper. 

These are the natural boundaries and the ethnolinguistic boundaries between Russian and Ukrainian speakers, and it doesn't require Russia to win Kiev, only win their already winning encirclement in the east and south.

If they win Kiev and the Ukrainian government doesn't surrender, then all bets are off.

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## Bengal71

The SC said:


> They are just exchanges of commodities.. no need to declare them..Gold can be moved by air or sea or even land if close by..



China can do that probably but not other countries. For example, BD, Vietnam, Indonesia or Malaysia can probably do that but why would they do it? Why would they take the risk of exchanging commodities secretly while there is a risk of US and EU finding out and sanctioning them? There is nothing Russia produces that these countries can't get from elsewhere without taking the risk of sanction. Likewise for all countries except for China, NK, Iran and Venezuela.

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## Clutch

Avicenna said:


> I'm not a fan of Russia.
> 
> But Putin has something when he characterizes the West as the "empire of lies".
> 
> It's true.
> 
> The Western narrative is a pile of crap.
> 
> And I'm not talking about just Ukraine.
> 
> Whether it was Iraq, or COVID or 9/11, or take your pick.
> 
> The recent history has shown this.
> 
> In addition, also look at how the Western media is used in essence as propaganda.
> 
> It's disgusting.
> 
> To be honest, if your really want know, the Russian position is actually quite reasonable.
> 
> Examine the history of this conflict and tell me otherwise.
> 
> Its the US/NATO that has caused this.



I agree. I feel sorry for the average Ukrainian that's the scapegoat for NATO's crimes just as the average Afghan was a victim also of the same NATO (West) misinformation, lies, and deceit of 9/11!

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498547835410780166

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498548842001805314

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> As my parting word, your ignorance about currency is the main reason why US government and any other governments that embrace fiat money are allowed to use inflation to tax their citizens without ramification. You are a sucker who praises the one who loots your wealth away.


Well, if this is my ignorant that fiat currency need not to peg on anything, and can be adjust willy-nilly by the government or monetary monitoring body, they are more than welcome to take my Master of International Business degree away from me. I mean, it's only fair if they weren't teaching the stuff that we taught weren't up to *Your Standard*.

And you are right, nobody have any foreign reserve in their federal bank, nah, that 1.07 trillion US Bond is just a myth, and that 300 billion USD in Chinese Central Bank does not exist, actually, currency does not need to back by any of foreign currency, and if so, US/EU sanction would have no effect on Russian economy, you are right and the entire Western Financial system that we all use is wrong. Does that satisfy your ego?

Meanwhile in Russia.







I am pretty sure these people just have nothing to do then queue in their bank and take out money, and this is the usual queue.






These Russian only queuing up in front of an ATM for fun.

I am pretty sure Russian Currency went from 1 Rouble to 0.012 USD from 21 Feb 2022 to 0.0009 USD on 28 Feb 2022 have nothing to do with Russian sanction.

And if you think USD control a lot in "wealth" let's applies "Your Model" What if US Federal Bank say all $100 note now worth $5. They can do that, because as you said, Fiat Currency have no backing, right, which mean the value is what Federal Bank said it is. How do you think it will affect world trade, which China is a part of, given that USD is at 62 % of world currency.......Dude, you don't need tanks fighter plane and warship, you can just tank Chinese or anyone's economy just by doing that.

And finally please refrain from personal attacks as mod like @LeGenD et el is having a tough job as it is, you don't need to make it harder. Just express your point is enough, don't need to throw personal insult.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1494048829372575744

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## patero

gambit said:


> You cannot say things like that. The bulk of this thread so far is about how powerful Russia is, how Russia is going to win, and how humiliating is America. You are deviating from orthodoxy.


I use this thread to read usefull stuff, I've added about 60-70 posters to my already lengthy ignore list from this thread alone. You're on my very short list of people whose posts I bother reading, so I'm missing most of the armchair cheerleading (But I get it second hand everytime you and Jhungary engage with those on my ignore list).

I'm calling this Ukraine situation as I see it, one big mess that's only going to get messier.

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## kingQamaR

Every A10 drivers mouth is salivating at this 40 mile Russian convoy. 

Ukrainian will need to slow convoy down use drones on it or blow up bridges/ IED are no good they will just drive around there burnt out vehicles

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Clutch said:


> Agree 100 % ... Enough fighting wars at the behest of others only to our own detriment...
> 
> Let them fight it out.... Not our war or cause...


But, keep your ears and eyes open, and be stringent with your voice. And, if you have some weapons to test it's the best time....

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## khansaheeb

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> Pak now needs geo-economics more than ever before! She has paid her dues in the geo-politics...


Is the Polish Ambassador implying Pakistani civilians and students are hostages in Poland and dependent on Pakistan's Political stance? A highly obnoxious escalation by the poles indeed if true.

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## Areesh

From what I have noticed till now

Russia has performed poorly in this war. Kiev is still not captured by Russian forces and there are big losses and heavy casualties

I think Russia shouldn't have started this war. They should continue what they do best. Bombing innocent Syrians

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## LeGenD

Clutch said:


> Easy... You get a clown to become a "democratically elected puppet" using the CIA coup.... so you can use the useful idiot as a fall guy...
> 
> Zelensky of Ukraine was their useful idiot... His incompetence brought the Russian wrath upon the common folks of Ukraine. Why did he push for the NATO alliance
> .. makes no sense. Now the Russians are trying to do a regime change...
> 
> We have them in Pakistan as well: Nawaz (aka Modi's bum-chums)... Maryam (aka daddy's bum-chum)... Bilawal (aka any man's bum-chum) and finally Diesel Fazal Mullah (Bilawal's bum-chum).
> 
> With "treasonous" puppets like these who needs enemies..????...
> 
> Truth is the new terrorism.


Read this:









Zelensky vs Putin: who’s winning the PR battle?


As Russian bombs fell across Ukraine, the contrast between the leaders of the warring nations could not be starker.




www.scmp.com





- and understand the difference.

Zelensky was a celebrity and managed to build his political rapport through social media. This is how he came to power.

Everybody is not a CIA stooge or a puppet. Some people are much more politically-savvy than others.

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## alimobin memon

Areesh said:


> From what I have noticed till now
> 
> Russia has performed poorly in this war. Kiev is still not captured by Russian forces and there are big losses and heavy casualties
> 
> I think Russia shouldn't have started this war. They should continued what they do best. Bombing innocent Syrians


its been only 5 days ...

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## The SC

Minced meat " Kefta: love between Russia and Ukraine..

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## sur

Civilians should not suffer. This is bad.



Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498547835410780166
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498548842001805314

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## ytterbium

Areesh said:


> From what I have noticed till now
> 
> Russia has performed poorly in this war. Kiev is still not captured by Russian forces and there are big losses and heavy casualties
> 
> I think Russia shouldn't have started this war. They should continue what they do best. Bombing innocent Syrians



They have performed admirably well. 

Zelensky and gang have performed well in their social media and Western electronic media. 

They don't want Ukrainian infrastructure ruined, civilian casualties to pile up. 

Why do you want Syrians to suffer? Not very decent of you.

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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> What about natural resources such as gold, silver, tin, copper, gemstones, oil, natural gas etc? Money itself without resource backing it doesn't mean much. That is why the US dollar is based on the petroleum sales through OPEC. So in this instance, Russia is a major producer rare earth minerals, natural gas, oil, and other minerals. Internally Russia should be fine with some squeeze on the petroleum exports, but over time, it should weather those sanctions as well.



Actually, US dollars that based on oil is a myth, first of all, US is the largest Oil Production country in the world, at 11.3 billions barrel a day, Trumping the next 2 by 2 billions a day (Russia at 9.8Billions and Saudi at 9.2) so even if USD is based on OPEC, that's still controlled by the US.

But no, because compare to Oil Production. USD itself is a much more valuable commodity, because it has been traded ! 5 Trillions a day, At a whopping 25 quadrillion dollar a year rate with roughly 250 trading day (SWIFT don't trade on the weekend), That 25000 trillions (1 quadrillion = 1000 trillion), Oil market on the other hand, is a 134 Trillion dollar market annum (That's very impressive by the way, that's 6 times of US GDP, but only about 1/200 of what SWIFT Traded a day). And we know US Dollar is 61% of World reserve, which mean 61% of those 25000 trillion transaction would be in USD. And that is just SWIFT, (international bank-bank transfer) I am discounting Currency trade, settlement, and domestic trade, which I have no idea how much of a market those. 









How Much Money Does Swift Banking Handle? - TheCornerStoneBank.com


SWIFT - the systemically important financial institutions - can handle about $5 trillion in transactions daily, approximately 250 business days each year,




www.thecornerstonebank.com





Problem with commodity like gold, oil, silver, tin etc, is that you need a buyer to buy them or it virtually worth nothing but a lump of tin sitting at your desk. Which is what the sanction is about. You have have 300 tons gold sitting in a bank, but with nobody buying it, it worth nothing, not sure does that make sense to you?

But then you will probably ask, how about China? Or other Allies of Russia? Well, specifically speaking, they don't have any trading partner that can have much purchasing power vis-a-vis the west, except China, but then China also have their limit. IT's not like they can swallow the entire Russian economy on their own, even with country like Cuba, Venzuela, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan help. And then China would also need to consider whether or not it's to their advantage to break the sanction and help Russia. Because yes, US cannot hold China responsible if they break the Sanction and trade with Russia, but US Treasury department and EU can stop their own company trading with Chinese company. That is the risk China will take if they decided to help Russia.


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## ytterbium

They should consider sending in special force troops to capture Zelensky and gang and have them tried. Accurate info on his whereabouts need to be established first. 

The suffering of civilians caught up in this political mess should be minimized. 

After a clinical operation, regime change instituted, problem solved. Operation ends.

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## alimobin memon

ytterbium said:


> They have performed admirably well.
> 
> Zelensky and gang have performed well in their social media and Western electronic media.
> 
> They don't want Ukrainian infrastructure ruined, civilian casualties to pile up.
> 
> Why do you want Syrians to suffer? Not very decent of you.


Russians are winning its obvious a country that uses western electronic media to claim they have killed so many Russians, then why Russians aren't retreating? Many videos turn out to be fake, most of the hardware is same except new ones. Ukraine is using its own destroyed hardware and marking Z on them to say that these are Russians.

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## khansaheeb

patero said:


> I use this thread to read usefull stuff, I've added about 60-70 posters to my already lengthy ignore list from this thread alone. You're on my very short list of people whose posts I bother reading, so I'm missing most of the armchair cheerleading (But I get it second hand everytime you and Jhungary engage with those on my ignore list).
> 
> I'm calling this Ukraine situation as I see it, one big mess that's only going to get messier.


What sort of sycophantic post is this? Grow up man and grow some balls.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498554229719453701

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## Areesh

alimobin memon said:


> its been only 5 days ...



Yup. Too late in capturing Kiev

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## mike2000 is back

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Moldova raises the white flag
> 
> Moldova to do everything to avoid involvement in Ukrainian situation - MFA​The government is working to "preserve peace in the society, consolidate it and block calls for violence," the minister said
> 
> CHISINAU, February 28. /TASS/. Moldova will do everything to avoid involvement in the situation in Ukraine where Russia is conducting a special military operation, Moldovan Foreign Minister Nicolae Popescu said on TV-8 television on Monday.
> "We are making every effort to avoid Moldova’s involvement in this conflict," he said. "It’s not easy, given the Transdniestrian conflict and the presence of Russian troops on our territory."
> The government is working to "preserve peace in the society, consolidate it and block calls for violence," the minister said.
> 
> 
> 
> https://tass.com/world/1413593


Yes Russia supporting yet another separatist group in another sovereign country because it wants to protect "ethnic Russians" from oppression. 😂 If this isn't enough for other Eastern European countries to join NATO then they can only submit to Russia as a vassal state . That's their only hope for peace. 🤣
This should be a lesson to every country with a significant ethnic Russian minority. Better be on guard, since your country can be invaded and carved out to "protect the rights of ethic Russians " at any time. 🤣

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498459285117976576


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## alimobin memon

ytterbium said:


> They should consider sending in special force troops to capture Zelensky and gang and have them tried. Accurate info on his whereabouts need to be established first.
> 
> The suffering of civilians caught up in this political mess should be minimized.
> 
> After a clinical operation, regime change instituted, problem solved. Operation ends.


I have a belief he might not even be in Ukraine. US already informed Ukraine of possible invasion he is an actor staged some videos of him with helmet and Kevlar jacket. Its a speculation but I believe it so.



Areesh said:


> Yup. Too late in capturing Kiev


Not too late. You are talking about capturing a capital of a good sized country. This is no joke US had to waste so much time to invade poorer countries than Ukraine and yet they had to successfully capture Baghdad. From 20 march to 9 April and yet with full NATO coalition. Here a single country that is not superpower is fighting alone with some volunteers from Chechnyan force so you need to realize that it takes time.

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## ytterbium

One of the purposes of instigating a war and relentless propaganda about Russian failures by the Yankees, is for Russkies to bring out their big guns and their A game. 

So that the Yankees can closely study it, glean valuable intelligence. 

It would be prudent and wise of the Russkie leadership not to fall for this bait of course.

I think cyberattacks on yankee social media giants may be a good starting point for a counterattack. 

Deploying nuclear weapons and delivery vehicles in Cuba and Venezuala can also be considered unless American nuclear weapons and troops are ejected from Europe. Quid pro quo.

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## Areesh

ytterbium said:


> They have performed admirably well.
> 
> Zelensky and gang have performed well in their social media and Western electronic media.
> 
> They don't want Ukrainian infrastructure ruined, civilian casualties to pile up.
> 
> Why do you want Syrians to suffer? Not very decent of you.



Well we all can give excuses but everyone can see that Russian invasion hasn't gone well. Kiev is still not captured. There are high casualties. A lot of Russian equipment getting captured by Ukrainians. This isn't what I would call "admirably well" 

I pointed out Syrians since bombing Syrian civilians is the only thing that Russians have done admirably well

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## LeGenD

UPDATES

1. Russian forces bombarded Ukranian villages Kyinka and Palivka several hours ago.

2. Russian forces are bombarding Ukranian cities Kyiv and Irpin in the present.

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## Tameem

Areesh said:


> From what I have noticed till now
> 
> Russia has performed poorly in this war. Kiev is still not captured by Russian forces and there are big losses and heavy casualties
> 
> I think Russia shouldn't have started this war. They should continue what they do best. Bombing innocent Syrians


Putin administration made it clear numerously that they didnt want to occupies Ukrine, that if Ukrine Army uprise against its own govt it will be more suitable for Russia but that didnt happening and it definately frustrates Putin. Putin wants in Ukrine a friendly regime just like they have in Belarus who stations Russion Army to face Nato outside of proper Russian Lands. That is the ideal outcome for Putin Admin at the moment. If Russians succeeds in converting Ukrine from Pro-Nato to Pro-Russia and making it a buffer zone their goals are achieved and they are moving towrds that albite slowly but surely.

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## ytterbium

Areesh said:


> Well we all can give excuses but everyone can see that Russian invasion hasn't gone well. Kiev is still not captured. There are high casualties. A lot of Russian equipment getting captured by Ukrainians. This isn't what I would call "admirably well"
> 
> I pointed out Syrians since bombing Syrian civilians is the only thing that Russians have done admirably well



The excuses seem to be for your misunderstanding or misreading of the ground reality in Ukraine. 

Your Pakistan lost half your country in 14 days against India. It still took India 14 days. That too with a very willing population that wanted to defeat Pakistani army, it took Indians 14 days. 

Kiev has already been surrounded. How many days has it been?
We are talking about the largest country exclusively in Europe. 

Despite all the wanton massacres, war crimes and bombing in Iraq, how long did it take them to capture Baghdad?

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## Darius77

Normally, I don't post here because any rational post gets "banned" by the thin skinned clueless folks. After reading 5 days of rants, it is time look from an adult perspective.

1. The war on Ukraine is in reality NATO and western puppet nations war on Russia with the aim of Balkanizing it. The Zionist criminal Blinken has made no secret of it. Russia is the last frontier for the Bilderberg Jews and their global "full spectrum domination" agenda.

2. 90% of Ukrainian racist propaganda is total fabrications. The Ukrainian Nazis brutal treatment of Indians, Africans, Arabs and other "colored people" speaks volumes for itself. The Polish racists are not any better. I just saw a video of an African Nigerian student who was beaten up Ukrainian and Polish police thugs and thrown off a train. There are countless descriptions of racism now flooding the internet.

3. Anyone with real combat experience knows that all military plans falter at the battle field and strategy has to be changed as required. Like any major battle-plan, after some initial glitches the Russian armed forces have regained the initiative. They have built-up supply lines, reinforced troops and have adequate logistics to liberate Kiev. Now they should process with a EMP attack on all Ukrainian infrastructure and cripple electricity, internet, TV stations and radio. Ukraine always as a Nazi and drug peddlers base but now foreign terrorists are making it into another Syria. Russia needs to hit any country where these terrorists are coming from. It is a fight for the survival of Russia and no quarter should be given to the terrorists and their sponsors.

Finally, despite all the shameless western propaganda, Russia will prevail. It has come as no surprise about the blatant racist double standards of the west. If a Muslim had gone to fight anywhere in the world, they would be arrested and charged with "terrorism", but it is more than OK for the west to encourage and transport terrorists to Poland and Romania to kill Russians. This hypocrisy is sickening.

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## mughaljee

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497301943667986432


Sure....


----------



## LeGenD

ytterbium said:


> The excuses seem to be for your misunderstanding or misreading of the ground reality in Ukraine.
> 
> Your Pakistan lost half your country in 14 days against India. It still took India 14 days. That too with a very willing population that wanted to defeat Pakistani army, it took Indians 14 days.
> 
> Kiev has already been surrounded. How many days has it been?
> We are talking about the largest country exclusively in Europe.
> 
> Despite all the wanton massacres, war crimes and bombing in Iraq, how long did it take them to capture Baghdad?


Kyiv is located near the border and was easy to approach. 






Link: https://newsline.news/map-of-the-co...ukraine-assaults-on-kiev-and-kharkiv-proceed/

Russians are shelling Kiyv and Irpin as WE speak.

Baghdad is deep inside Iraq and not easy to approach from Kuwait.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498549239311478786

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498288545273946112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498304528248184832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498251766730739713

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498551511445553158


----------



## Areesh

ytterbium said:


> Your Pakistan lost half your country in 14 days against India. It still took India 14 days. That too with a very willing population that wanted to defeat Pakistani army, it took Indians 14 days.



Again excuses. This time even worse than the previous ones

There are lot of differences between Russian Ukraine situation and Pakistan 1971 situation. Starting from Geography itself

Guess you need to be more creative for finding excuses for Russian failures



LeGenD said:


> Kyiv is located near the border and was easy to approach.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link: https://newsline.news/map-of-the-co...ukraine-assaults-on-kiev-and-kharkiv-proceed/
> 
> Russians are shelling Kiyv and Irpin as WE speak.
> 
> Baghdad is deep inside Iraq and not easy to approach from Kuwait.



And East Pakistan was 1000 kms away from West Pakistan with surrounded by enemy from 3 sides

That is not situation of Russia with Ukraine today

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498522167650226178


----------



## Darius77

mughaljee said:


> Sure....


Yeah, because he is headed to Occupied Palestine after doing the job he was hired to do and cause an inter-Slav fratricide as the Anglo-Zionists have done in Occupied Palestine , India-Pakistan and any place they can. The Jews want endless wars as long as other people die. Russia should have decapitated this worthless clown in the first strike.

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## LeGenD

Areesh said:


> Again excuses. This time even worse than the previous ones
> 
> There are lot of differences between Russian Ukraine situation and Pakistan 1971 situation. Starting from Geography itself
> 
> Guess you need to be more creative for finding excuses for Russian failures
> 
> 
> 
> And East Pakistan was 1000 kms away from West Pakistan with surrounded by enemy from 3 sides
> 
> That is not situation of Russia with Ukraine today


Indeed, bro.

People tend to forget that Ukraine shares border with both Russia and Belarus and Russia was able to assault it from 6 different directions including through Belarus.

Ukraine-Russia situation does not compare to NATO-Iraq situation in 2003 and Pakistan-India situation in 1971 respectively. WE are looking at different landscapes and political situations in each case.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498541548757213186

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498544749388697600

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498510963565383680


----------



## Primus

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498522167650226178


Oh for goodness sake, those are M270 MLRS firing, not grads, smerch or uragan. 

Also it was uploaded 3 years ago








Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498510963565383680


'behold the terrible accuracy of the iskander ballistic missile' 
Proceeds to show the Ukr airfield with craters on its run way

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498559904931581956

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498561066242129924

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498562185055903744

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## alimobin memon

LeGenD said:


> Kyiv is located near the border and was easy to approach.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link: https://newsline.news/map-of-the-co...ukraine-assaults-on-kiev-and-kharkiv-proceed/
> 
> Russians are shelling Kiyv and Irpin as WE speak.
> 
> Baghdad is deep inside Iraq and not easy to approach from Kuwait.


Well sir, it does not mean it has to take 3 to 5 days. Russia is not NATO with so many different types of hardware designated for different tasks. Ukraine is very familiar with Russian weapons and knew some of the weaknesses. Ukraine has s300 Baghdad had poor AA systems. You need to realize NATO used initially at time of invasion around 300K troops while Russia has only sent around 60K along with few brigades of chechnyan forces against a million plus Ukraine soldiers(reserves including). If you wanna talk about geography then talk with some logic, US fired 800 cruise missiles alone at time of invasion Russians in 5 days have only fired 300 most of them of soviet era. Other NATO countries fired missiles are separate from these 800 numbers.

Sir, you also need to keep in account that Putin does not want whole Ukraine that's his whole concentration is till Kiev. If he wanted he would surely have went west side.

Also not to forget that Baghdad was taken by NATO but it took a lot more time to actually claim whole Iraq.

Here is a proof how iraq war went,

"Another estimate numbers the Army and Republican Guard at between 280,000 and 350,000 and 50,000 to 80,000, respectively,[134] and the paramilitary between 20,000 and 40,000.[135] There were an estimated thirteen infantry divisions, ten mechanized and armored divisions, as well as some special forces units. *The Iraqi Air Force and Navy played a negligible role in the conflict. *"

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## Messerschmitt

Huffal said:


> Oh for goodness sake, those are M270 MLRS firing, not grads, smerch or uragan.
> 
> Also it was uploaded 3 years ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'behold the terrible accuracy of the iskander ballistic missile'
> Proceeds to show the Ukr airfield with craters on its run way


The point is that most actually didn't hit the runways.


----------



## Bengal71

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498522167650226178



Old vid


----------



## Mujahid Memon

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498467554863591433


Towards Mariupol?


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498518801993846785

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498562795993976836

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498564520813465601

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## Primus

Messerschmitt said:


> The point is that most actually didn't hit the runways.


2/6 didnt hit


----------



## lcloo

Russia's import partners in 2020. Judge for yourself if economic sanctions and ban from SWIFT will severly affect Russia or not.

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## jhungary

What people til now still don't understand is that

If Russia need this long and this much resource to conquer (Still conquering) Ukraine, how well would they perform when they are inevitably face with a Ukrainian insurgency that are almost certain to guarantee that is coming?

Notice that it took the US 4 months to invade and control the entire Iraq, I don't even think it is possible at this point to control the entire Ukraine. Which mean Western Ukraine is going to be like Fallujah and Tikrit, only with EU supplying and financing a insurgency from there. And we lost 136 men for the entire 4 months of campaign, Russia most likely lost 10 times that and it is still ongoing. And we have around 400,000 troop in the entire Iraq, Russia have what left of those 200,000

This is going to be an insurgent haven, and it get even worse, most of the Ukrainian can speak Russian and know their culture which means any insurgent activities is going to be worse because you can't tell which one is the good guy, which one is the insurgent, as they all speak Russian, they all look the same, and they all live with a similar culture. Which speak for my own COIN experience, make your task 10 times harder. (well, probably not 10 times, but still a lot) 

And then we aren't fighting the insurgency while we are being sanction, we have steady supplies of food, ammunition and replacement. Russia is trying to fight an insurgency which is resource intensive and manpower intensive while under sanction..

Prospect is not good.

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## Tomcats

Huffal said:


> Proceeds to show the Ukr airfield with craters on its run way


None of which have hit target and even if it did would only take it out of operation for a few hours.
I don't blame the the accuracy though but the lack of numbers. Russia's lack of Precision weapons is what the issue is.

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## Messerschmitt

Huffal said:


> 2/6 didnt hit


2/6 did.


----------



## khansaheeb

​







70 Ukrainian soldiers killed in Russian attack, says official


Air raid sirens in Kyiv and Kharkiv as local official says Russian attack killed at least 70 Ukrainian troops on Monday.




www.aljazeera.com




Russia-Ukraine live news: Dozens of Ukrainian soldiers killed​_Air raid sirens in Kyiv and Kharkiv as local official says Russian artillery attack on a military base killed at least 70 Ukrainian soldiers on Monday._





M1-24 attack helicopters prepare for battles in Ukraine on the field, in Russia, on February 28, 2022 [Russian Defence Ministry Press Service/ EPA-EFE]
By Ali Harb and Zaheena Rasheed
Published On 28 Feb 202228 Feb 2022

Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelenskyy calls for no-fly zone to stop Russian bombardment, but White House says US is not considering such a move.
At least 70 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed in a Russian artillery attack in Okhtyrka, a city between Kharkiv and Kyiv, says a local official.
ICC prosecutor says he plans to launch investigation into alleged war crimes, crimes against humanity in Ukraine.
High-level talks between Kyiv and Moscow end with no agreement except to keep talking.
Civilian death toll now stands at 352 people, including 14 children, Ukraine’s health ministry says.
More than 520,000 people have fled Ukraine since Russian invasion began, UN says.
FIFA and UEFA suspend Russia from international football.
Here are the latest updates:
KEEP READING​list of 3 itemslist 1 of 3
Diary from Kyiv: ‘I’m staying in my home no matter what happens’​list 2 of 3
Could economic sanctions on Russia hurt the rest of the world?​list 3 of 3
No breakthrough at Ukraine talks as Russian assault continues​end of list





45 mins ago (07:00 GMT)45 mins ago (07:00 GMT)
Air raid alerts in Kyiv, Kharkiv and other cities: Reports​The Kyiv Independent, a Ukrainian news outlet, is reporting air raid sirens in Kyiv, Kharkiv and other cities, including Vinnytsia, Uman and Cherkasy.


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It also cited a hospital administrator saying that Russian shelling has hit a maternity hospital in the village of Buzova near Kyiv. “All people were evacuated from the building,” it said.


1 hour ago (06:34 GMT)
Russian forces ‘surround city of Kherson’: Reports​Russian troops have surrounded the southern Ukrainian city of Kherson, according to a journalist and a local official.





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“The city is actually surrounded, there are a lot of Russian soldiers and military equipment on all sides, they set up checkpoints at the exits,” Journalist Alyona Panina told the Ukraine 24 TV channel.
The city’s Mayor Igor Kolykhaiev also said on Facebook that the “Russia army is setting up checkpoints at the entrances of Kherson”.
Kherson has a population of around 280,000 and lies north of the Crimea peninsula, annexed by Moscow in 2014. Russia claimed to have besieged the city on Sunday.
2 hours ago (05:57 GMT)
Japan freezes assets of Russia’s central bank​Japan is joining the US and other allies in slapping additional sanctions on Russia, including freezing assets of the country’s leaders and three financial institutions.


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Aside from those held by six individuals including President Vladimir Putin and Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, Japan will freeze assets of Russia state-owned Promsvyazbank and Vnesheconombank, as well as the country’s central bank.




3 hours ago (05:04 GMT)
Dozens of Ukrainian soldiers killed in Russian attack​A Ukrainian official says a Russian artillery attack on a military unit in Okhtyrka, a city between Kharkiv and Kyiv, killed at least 70 Ukrainian soldiers on Monday.

Dmytro Zhyvytskyy, head of the Sumy Regional State Administration, posted photographs of the charred shell of a four-storey building and rescuers searching rubble.

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## Tameem

LeGenD said:


> Indeed, bro.
> 
> People tend to forget that Ukraine shares border with both Russia and Belarus and Russia was able to assault it from 6 different directions including through Belarus.
> 
> Ukraine-Russia situation does not compare to NATO-Iraq situation in 2003 and Pakistan-India situation in 1971 respectively. WE are looking at different landscapes and political situations in each case.



Its seems deliberate from Russian Armed forces. They don't want to go into the trap. Everyone preparing a trap for other party, NATO wants Russia to be bogged down in Ukraine just like their occupation of Afghanistan (1979-1989) fully understanding it, Russians are on fringe of Ukraine and holding it out there, they wants NATO to come for the aid of Ukraine regime at least their mercenaries for the time being they bombard Kiev not to occupies it but to lure NATO to come for the Aid and bogged down just like their occupation of Afghanistan (2001-2020), So everyone is luring other party, its a Cat and mouse situation at the moment.








If you look at the map, Russia have better chances to make Ukraine an Afghanistan for NATO, all three sides covered with Russian troops after Crimea and Odessa Ukraine will becomes almost Landlock. Perfect time and space to engage NATO here and makes it another Syria like situation.

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## khansaheeb

Tameem said:


> Its seems deliberate from Russian Armed forces. They don't want to go into the trap. Everyone preparing a trap for other party, NATO wants Russia to be bogged down in Ukraine just like their occupation of Afghanistan (1979-1989) fully understanding it, Russians are on fringe of Ukraine and holding it out there, they wants NATO to come for the aid of Ukraine regime at least their mercenaries for the time being they bombard Kiev not to occupies it but to lure NATO to come for the Aid and bogged down just like their occupation of Afghanistan (2001-2020), So everyone is luring other party, its a Cat and mouse situation at the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at the map, Russia have better chances to make Ukraine an Afghanistan for NATO, all three sides covered with Russian troops after Crimea and Odessa Ukraine will becomes almost Landlock. Perfect time and space to engage NATO here and makes it another Syria like situation.



Perhaps the Russians are just keeping a withdrawal route open or they are proceeding cautiously. Surely they must realise time is on the side of the resistance and the longer it draws out the the more bogged down the Russians will get and stuck in a quagmire.



Adonis said:


> We can't shrug away the in competencies and bias of our leaders...... Why we didn't develop East Pakistan and kept forces over there right since 1947, proportionate to the threat level (surrounded by 3 sides etc), we had fought 2 wars before 1971 with same enemy...then why was the slumber? and discrimination ? Distance factor comes lot below than some of the blunders done in governance, treatment of Bengalis by our Fair and Tall Punjabi/West Pakistani Generals and politicians.


Pakistan never had money and Bangladesh was being hit by historical rains and floods and Pakistan just couldn't cope.


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## Tomcats

Tameem said:


> hey wants NATO to come for the aid of Ukraine regime at least their mercenaries for the time being they bombard Kiev not to occupies it but to lure NATO to come for the Aid and bogged down just like their occupation of Afghanistan (2001-2020), So everyone is luring other party, its a Cat and mouse situation at the moment.


Not really, Russia's offensive has for the most part stalled. At the moment they are reorganizing and resupplying in this lull of fighting. The convoy in the north is an indication of reshuffling of forces near Kiev. Russia has significantly underestimated Ukrainian defenses but they will adapt soon enough.

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## Areesh

Adonis said:


> We can't shrug away the in competencies and bias of our leaders...... Why we didn't develop East Pakistan and kept forces over there right since 1947, proportionate to the threat level (surrounded by 3 sides etc), we had fought 2 wars before 1971 with same enemy...then why was the slumber? and discrimination ? Distance factor comes lot below than some of the blunders done in governance, treatment of Bengalis by our Fair and Tall Punjabi/West Pakistani Generals and politicians.



You are not even a Pakistani you pajeet

Why are you saying "we" in this post?

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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498371276427177997

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498566084748021761

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498568469658357760


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## mike2000 is back

LeGenD said:


> Kyiv is located near the border and was easy to approach.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link: https://newsline.news/map-of-the-co...ukraine-assaults-on-kiev-and-kharkiv-proceed/
> 
> Russians are shelling Kiyv and Irpin as WE speak.
> 
> Baghdad is deep inside Iraq and not easy to approach from Kuwait.


Yes reason I think it's always better to have capital city in the interior center of the country to avoid it being so vulnerable during an invasion, especially in a hostile neighbourhood. Lessons for other capital cities like Delhi close to China's border, Beijing being close to U.S forces/bases in East Asia in Korea/Japan , Hanoi being close to China's border which made it easier to reach when China invaded in the 70s etc etc

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## MH.Yang

Some poles said that many armored forces were assembled on Ukrainian land only a few kilometers from the Polish border. All equipment is marked with the letter V.
Is this the reason for the first deployment of the NATO rapid response force?
Did the Russian army go from Belarus to the border between Poland and Ukraine?
If the border between Ukraine and Poland is blocked, does NATO have other channels to support Ukraine?

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## Darius77

HydNizam said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498371276427177997


Yeah sure, African students also decided to join the Ukrainian Nazis after being thrown off from trains and beaten. Ukrainian and western propaganda is now just sheer entertainment.

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## RescueRanger

Mujahid Memon said:


> Towards Mariupol?


Yes


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## LeGenD

alimobin memon said:


> Well sir, it does not mean it has to take 3 to 5 days. Russia is not NATO with so many different types of hardware designated for different tasks. Ukraine is very familiar with Russian weapons and knew some of the weaknesses. Ukraine has s300 Baghdad had poor AA systems. You need to realize NATO used initially at time of invasion around 300K troops while Russia has only sent around 60K along with few brigades of chechnyan forces against a million plus Ukraine soldiers(reserves including). If you wanna talk about geography then talk with some logic, US fired 800 cruise missiles alone at time of invasion Russians in 5 days have only fired 300 most of them of soviet era. Other NATO countries fired missiles are separate from these 800 numbers.
> 
> Sir, you also need to keep in account that Putin does not want whole Ukraine that's his whole concentration is till Kiev. If he wanted he would surely have went west side.
> 
> Also not to forget that Baghdad was taken by NATO but it took a lot more time to actually claim whole Iraq.
> 
> Here is a proof how iraq war went,
> 
> "Another estimate numbers the Army and Republican Guard at between 280,000 and 350,000 and 50,000 to 80,000, respectively,[134] and the paramilitary between 20,000 and 40,000.[135] There were an estimated thirteen infantry divisions, ten mechanized and armored divisions, as well as some special forces units. *The Iraqi Air Force and Navy played a negligible role in the conflict. *"



I do NOT think that this war could be concluded in a few days although Putin administration expected it to. It is true that Russia was able to invade Ukraine from 6 different directions including through Belarus, and Kyiv was easy to approach given its location but regime change could not be carried out yet. 60,000 Russian troops on the ground in Ukraine is old figure - Russian force composition inside Ukraine would be much larger by now with militias in the mix.

NATO is a much better equipped force than Russia (without any doubt) *but* factors such as geography and regional political realities will influence the course of war in any landscape at any point in time (humanly constraints also apply). NATO could commit 90,000 troops on the ground to invade Iraq in 2003; other troops were in Navy (Sea) and Air Force (Air) and do not count in this equation. S-300 systems would not have made any difference for Iraq when up against a force like NATO - this is useless point. Iraqi order of battle was to draw NATO forces into urban environments (cities) and select geographical locations where they would be able to ambush invading forces, and they were able to pull this off. Iraqi are determined fighters as well (For perspective: Iran could not take Basra in 8 years). Now keep in mind that NATO could invade Iraq through Kuwait only (1 direction); Iran, KSA and Syria were not accessible to NATO in this matter. Turkey allowed only special forces of NATO to pass through (airborne movements). In spite of this regional political situation, NATO toppled Saddam regime in 21 days.

NATO force composition on the ground was expanded inside Iraq in response to Iraqi insurgency when it expanded in scale and scope in the (2004 - 2008) period.

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## 313ghazi

gambit said:


> No choice. Close Air Support means exactly that -- *CLOSE*.
> 
> Battlefield details are lost with increasing altitude and speed. Above 10K ft or roughly above 3000 meters, I can have the "God's Eye" view of the area, but it is difficult, if not impossible, for me to figure out the IFF ground lines, in other words, I cannot ID out Friend from Foe. So I have no choice but to descent and slow down, which put me into MANPADS' operational parameters.
> 
> Sometimes a Friend will call a 'danger close' delivery so I have to know where/when to pickle. To be 'danger close' mean you are at risk from my munition. That mean I have to descent and slow down to visually see where you want the delivery. Further, I have limited munition, so the more precise the delivery, the greater the odds of your survival, so again, I have to descent and slow down.
> 
> The advantage that jets have over helos is acceleration after delivery. If you look closely at how a helo need to accelerate, especially from hover, you will see the helo tilt slightly nose down to use rotor air to push the aircraft forward. There is a slight pause in the motion. Jets do not have that delay. As soon as I pickled, I will throttle forward will pick up speed immediately, giving me an increase odds of escaping out of the MANPADS' operational parameters. Does not guarantee, but I need every edge I can get. If there is sufficient lower altitude, I will even dive to gain speed and if there are topos like low hills nearby, diving into the valleys between the hill tops can give me cover from the MANPADS' IR seeker. So what happens is that my engine's IR is being strobed from the terrain and my flares adds to the IR sources. The F-16's engine is actually seen more as an IR stream while the A-10 guys are seen as diffused blobs, so the F-16 is worse off.
> 
> There are a lot of hypothetical scenarios where bombers can deliver bombs that are 'smart' enough to take on CAS, but that day is not yet here. So for now, CAS must be low and slow.
> 
> 🎶
> 
> Slow ride, take it easy
> Slow ride, take it easy
> Slow down, go down, got to get your lovin' one more time
> Hold me, roll me, slow ridin' woman you're so fine
> 
> 🎶


Thanks. That was really informative.

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## RescueRanger

Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelenskyy calls for no-fly zone to stop Russian bombardment, but White House says US is not considering such a move.
At least 70 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed in a Russian artillery attack in Okhtyrka, a city between Kharkiv and Kyiv, says a local official.
ICC prosecutor says he plans to launch investigation into alleged war crimes, crimes against humanity in Ukraine. 🙄
High-level talks between Kyiv and Moscow end with no agreementexcept to keep talking.
Civilian death toll now stands at 352 people, including 14 children, Ukraine’s health ministry says.
More than 520,000 people have fled Ukraine since Russian invasion began, UN says.
Kharkiv has seen some of the heaviest fighting in this entire conflict, expect the actual number UAF casualties to be much higher.


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## alimobin memon

LeGenD said:


> I do NOT think that this war could be concluded in a few days although Putin administration expected it to. It is true that Russia was able to invade Ukraine from 6 different directions including through Belarus, and Kyiv was easy to approach given its location but regime change could not be carried out yet. 60,000 Russian troops on the ground in Ukraine is old figure - Russian force composition inside Ukraine would be much larger by now with militias in the mix.
> 
> NATO is a much better equipped force than Russia (without any doubt) *but* factors such as geography and regional political realities will influence the course of war in any landscape at any point in time (humanly constraints also apply). NATO could commit 90,000 troops on the ground to invade Iraq in 2003; other troops were in Navy (Sea) and Air Force (Air) and do not count in this equation. S-300 systems would not have made any difference for Iraq when up against a force like NATO - this is useless point. Iraqi order of battle was to draw NATO forces into urban environments (cities) and select geographical locations where they would be able to ambush invading forces, and they were able to pull this off. Iraqi are determined fighters as well (For perspective: Iran could not take Basra in 8 years). Now keep in mind that NATO could invade Iraq through Kuwait only (1 direction); Iran, KSA and Syria were not accessible to NATO in this matter. Turkey allowed only special forces of NATO to pass through (airborne movements). In spite of this regional political situation, NATO toppled Saddam regime in 21 days.
> 
> NATO force composition on the ground was expanded inside Iraq in response to Iraqi insurgency when it expanded in scale and scope in the (2004 - 2008) period.


You cannot ignore s300 FYI. Plus, you cannot say iraqi are solid fighters while Ukrainians are not I may have misjudged you though. At least we agree to the point that war cannot be concluded in few days & the fact that putin misjudged but in war things can go south...


----------



## patero

jhungary said:


> What people til now still don't understand is that
> 
> If Russia need this long and this much resource to conquer (Still conquering) Ukraine, how well would they perform when they are inevitably face with a Ukrainian insurgency that are almost certain to guarantee that is coming?
> 
> Notice that it took the US 4 months to invade and control the entire Iraq, I don't even think it is possible at this point to control the entire Ukraine. Which mean Western Ukraine is going to be like Fallujah and Tikrit, only with EU supplying and financing a insurgency from there. And we lost 136 men for the entire 4 months of campaign, Russia most likely lost 10 times that and it is still ongoing. And we have around 400,000 troop in the entire Iraq, Russia have what left of those 200,000
> 
> This is going to be an insurgent haven, and it get even worse, most of the Ukrainian can speak Russian and know their culture which means any insurgent activities is going to be worse because you can't tell which one is the good guy, which one is the insurgent, as they all speak Russian, they all look the same, and they all live with a similar culture. Which speak for my own COIN experience, make your task 10 times harder. (well, probably not 10 times, but still a lot)
> 
> And then we aren't fighting the insurgency while we are being sanction, we have steady supplies of food, ammunition and replacement. Russia is trying to fight an insurgency which is resource intensive and manpower intensive while under sanction..
> 
> Prospect is not good.


Great post, I completely agree. Just to add to Russia's growing list of problems, a build up of NATO forces in the Baltics, Poland and Romania will also force Russia to reinforce its borders, which will now include the Belarussian border now that they have basically declared themselves a vassal state. 

Even if NATO isn't directly involved on the ground in Ukraine, it will make it harder for Russia to reinforce those forces already deployed if they have to worry about 'NATO 'aggression'.

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## LeGenD

alimobin memon said:


> You cannot ignore s300 FYI. Plus, you cannot say iraqi are solid fighters while Ukrainians are not I may have misjudged you though. At least we agree to the point that war cannot be concluded in few days & the fact that putin misjudged but in war things can go south...


A volley of Tomahawk cruise missiles will make short work of big ticket items such as S-300 in any landscape at any point in time. Tomahawk cruise missiles are revisited/updated/improved from time-to-time. Block 4 were mass produced after 2001 and Block 5 is under production now.

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## khansaheeb

MH.Yang said:


> Some poles said that many armored forces were assembled on Ukrainian land only a few kilometers from the Polish border. All equipment is marked with the letter V.
> Is this the reason for the first deployment of the NATO rapid response force?
> Did the Russian army go from Belarus to the border between Poland and Ukraine?
> If the border between Ukraine and Poland is blocked, does NATO have other channels to support Ukraine?
> 
> 
> View attachment 819773


It makes sense, the Russians should have sealed all the borders at the initial stage of invasion to ensure no supplies get through. NATO is bound to find or create holes to ensure good supply routes are available.

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## RescueRanger

HydNizam said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498371276427177997


They were on the border with Poland last night on AJN asking to leave.


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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498459994320216064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498574127556440064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498577632266539011


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## khansaheeb

Turkey thinks it is a member of Naughtyo:-









Turkey warns countries not to pass warships through straits


Turkey has warned both Black Sea and non-Black Sea countries not to pass warships through its Bosphorus and Dardanelles Straits, Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu was reported as saying on Monday.




www.reuters.com





Turkey warns countries not to pass warships through straits​Reuters



1 minute read





Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu attends a news conference with Lebanese Foreign Minister Abdallah Bou Habib in Beirut, Lebanon November 16, 2021. REUTERS/Mohamed Azakir/File photo
ANKARA, Feb 28 (Reuters) - Turkey has warned both Black Sea and non-Black Sea countries not to pass warships through its Bosphorus and Dardanelles Straits, Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu was reported as saying on Monday.
The 1936 Montreux Convention allows Turkey to limit naval transit of its straits during wartime but has a clause exempting ships returning to their registered base.
"We implemented what Montreux says, and we will do so from now on. There has been no request for passage through the straits until today," the state news agency Anadolu reported Cavusoglu as saying.
Report ad
At least four Russian ships are currently waiting on Turkey's decision to cross from the Mediterranean.


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## RescueRanger

khansaheeb said:


> Turkey thinks it is a member of Naughtyo:-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey warns countries not to pass warships through straits
> 
> 
> Turkey has warned both Black Sea and non-Black Sea countries not to pass warships through its Bosphorus and Dardanelles Straits, Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu was reported as saying on Monday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey warns countries not to pass warships through straits​Reuters
> 
> 
> 
> 1 minute read
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu attends a news conference with Lebanese Foreign Minister Abdallah Bou Habib in Beirut, Lebanon November 16, 2021. REUTERS/Mohamed Azakir/File photo
> ANKARA, Feb 28 (Reuters) - Turkey has warned both Black Sea and non-Black Sea countries not to pass warships through its Bosphorus and Dardanelles Straits, Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu was reported as saying on Monday.
> The 1936 Montreux Convention allows Turkey to limit naval transit of its straits during wartime but has a clause exempting ships returning to their registered base.
> "We implemented what Montreux says, and we will do so from now on. There has been no request for passage through the straits until today," the state news agency Anadolu reported Cavusoglu as saying.
> Report ad
> At least four Russian ships are currently waiting on Turkey's decision to cross from the Mediterranean.


Turkey has played this very well if you realise that the only foreign military vessels in the Black Sea are Russian and no foreign military vessels will now be allowed pas Haydarpasa

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## Dustom999

RescueRanger said:


> Turkey has played this very well if you realise that the only foreign military vessels in the Black Sea are Russian and no foreign military vessels will now be allowed pas Haydarpasa


Most Russian vessels can still be allowed as they are allowed to reach their home ports!

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498580468895293440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498578656611946496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498580764824596484

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## Darius77

RescueRanger said:


> Turkey has played this very well if you realise that the only foreign military vessels in the Black Sea are Russian and no foreign military vessels will now be allowed pas Haydarpasa


Actually, this helps Russian navy as like you said only Russian ships now dominate the whole Black Sea which in now a defacto Russian lake. Turkish public opinion is pro-Russian, if you read the latest PEW poll, Turks have some of most anti-American views in the region along with Egypt, Pakistan and Iran. Jordan also surprisingly had a 61% poor view of Americans.

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## 8888888888888

Israel is supporting Ukraine so......


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## Darius77

RescueRanger said:


> Yes


In the morning of March 1, a spokesperson for forces of the Donetsk People’s Republic, Eduard Basurin, announced that the DPR will soon fully encircle the city of Mariupol in Donetsk Region.

Mariupol is a key stronghold of the Kiev regime in the area. DPR units reached its outskirts during the advance on February 28.

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## TheDarkKnight

HydNizam said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498371276427177997


That would literally be “phul sapport shir!”

To me this sounds like a forceful draft. Anyway hope unarmed innocent foreigners get a chance to leave the war zone.

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## Jalut

Darius77 said:


> In the morning of March 1, a spokesperson for forces of the Donetsk People’s Republic, Eduard Basurin, announced that the DPR will soon fully encircle the city of Mariupol in Donetsk Region.
> 
> Mariupol is a key stronghold of the Kiev regime in the area. DPR units reached its outskirts during the advance on February 28.



What I understand is that half of Ukraine's army was and is in Donbass region because apparently Ukraine didn't believe Russia will attack from all directions or even attack in that matter and they were caught off guard hence half of their army is still in Donbass which also shows why DPR and LPR made no advance on the north of the rebel held territories but they made advances to east and west including towards Mariupol because it is west of the rebel held areas

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## Primus

Quick headsup, osintdefender has been known to post a lot of false information regarding this war. Take all these osints with a mountain of salt

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## maverick1977

patero said:


> Great post, I completely agree. Just to add to Russia's growing list of problems, a build up of NATO forces in the Baltics, Poland and Romania will also force Russia to reinforce its borders, which will now include the Belarussian border now that they have basically declared themselves a vassal state.
> 
> Even if NATO isn't directly involved on the ground in Ukraine, it will make it harder for Russia to reinforce those forces already deployed if they have to worry about 'NATO 'aggression'.




There will be no insurgency. Ukrainians dont have it in their blood.

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## alimobin memon

LeGenD said:


> A volley of Tomahawk cruise missiles will make short work of big ticket items such as S-300 in any landscape at any point in time. Tomahawk cruise missiles are revisited/updated/improved from time-to-time. Block 4 were mass produced after 2001 and Block 5 is under production now.


Agreed to that sir

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## Darius77

Jalut said:


> What I understand is that half of Ukraine's army was and is in Donbass region because apparently Ukraine didn't believe Russia will attack from all directions and they were caught of guard hence half of their army is still in Donbass which also shows why DPR and LPR made no advance on the north of the rebel held territories but they made advances to east and west including towards Mariupol because it is west of the rebel held areas


That is a largely correct view. Also the Azov battalion Nazis are in the area and will be trapped in a pincer moving from Crimea.

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## RescueRanger

Dustom999 said:


> Most Russian vessels can still be allowed as they are allowed to reach their home ports!


Yes I know that is why if you read my original post, I mention it here:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


I think the attack on Kiev is gonna start soon.



defence.pk

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## kursed

Every major western news media is reporting RuAF to have failed vs Ukrainian AD. Yet, KA-52s are doing low-level runs over Mariupol. And then there's a bloody 60 km long tank and an arty convoy that continues to travel closer to Kyiv, unabated - almost waltzing to the final destination.

The only winner of this war so far has been disinformation/information warfare parties from both sides.

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## RescueRanger

Huffal said:


> Quick headsup, osintdefender has been known to post a lot of false information regarding this war. Take all these osints with a mountain of salt


Yes I concur.


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## Jalut

Darius77 said:


> That is a largely correct view. Also the Azov battalion Nazis are in the area and will be trapped in a pincer moving from Crimea.



Look at the north of the rebel held area no movement there but east and west

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498379451721207819


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## Darius77

kursed said:


> Every major western news media is reporting RuAF to have failed vs Ukrainian AD. Yet, KA-52s are doing low-level runs over Mariupol. And then there's a bloody 60 km long tank and an arty convoy that continues to travel closer to Kyiv, unabated - almost waltzing to the final destination.
> 
> The only winner of this war so far has been disinformation/information warfare parties from both sides.


Never seen the western warmongers and liars sink to such pathetic propaganda. That is why they banned RT and Sputnik.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498585875877351426

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498399306675634180

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498586155016671232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498586516611813382

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498587623014952964

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## RescueRanger

Reports of minor looting last night of some shops in Kyiv/Kiev:


----------



## Ali_Baba

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498516965941514240











Bulgarian PM fires defense minister for promoting Putin’s spin


Bulgaria has long been seen as the Achilles’ heel of NATO and the EU when it comes to Russian influence.




www.politico.eu





things are changing slowly in the right direction.

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## NA71

Just for memory refresher....USA initiated 81 armed conflicts around the world from 1941 to 2022

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## Primus

Ali_Baba said:


> Bulgarian PM fires defense minister for promoting Putin’s spin
> 
> 
> Bulgaria has long been seen as the Achilles’ heel of NATO and the EU when it comes to Russian influence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.politico.eu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> things are changing slowly in the right direction.


Cant trust politico. There were the ones saying some countries will give jets to ukraine and they will arrive within the hour, but evidently none of it happened.

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## A1Kaid

8888888888888 said:


> Israel is supporting Ukraine so......


Israel being an extension of America/Western Europe will likely have very rough relations going forward with Russia and Russia will support the frontline Arab states more than ever.

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## NA71

70% of news coming out from Conflict region in western media are fake....

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## sammuel

~






patero said:


> A simple question is: was this worth the cost? The cost in lives as well as the economic and politcal cost. Many Russian people are already asking that question. Violence should always be the absolute last resort, Putin was only too willing to pull the trigger, and who knows how this is going to end (badly for everybody is probably the answer).



indeed , and add to that the world is recovering from two years of corona , and we are only left to ask :


*Why ?*


~

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## Mujahid Memon

The SC said:


> Zakharova called the delivery of lethal weapons by Germany to Ukraine an outrageous gesture​
> According to Zakharova, the Federal Republic of Germany, by its decision, is calling “the ghosts of not a cold war, but the most hot war.”
> 
> https://pledgetimes.com/zakharova-c...-by-germany-to-ukraine-an-outrageous-gesture/


Germany needs a strong leader


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498587799141949443

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498408659633770504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498588928496267266


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## Vergennes

and the slaughter continues...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498557012342415361

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498450930727067649

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498590316915482630

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498590835407007747

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498411194696323073

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498392515262746630Starlink terminals have arrived in Ukraine.

_Plano, Texas (USA). _

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## srshkmr

khansaheeb said:


> Is the Polish Ambassador implying Pakistani civilians and students are hostages in Poland and dependent on Pakistan's Political stance? A highly obnoxious escalation by the poles indeed if true.


Ukranian ambassador implied the same during UNSC meet for Indian students

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498592583370645504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498593277691727872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498591112188989442

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498593534114512896


----------



## Mujahid Memon

HAIDER said:


> یہ تصویر عراق کے دارالحکومت بغداد کی 2004 کی ہے ۔۔۔ اس تصویر میں یوکرینی ٹینک کو وسطی بغداد میں دندناتے ہوئے دیکھا جاسکتا ہے ۔۔۔ یوکرین نے نیٹو کا میمبر نہ ہوتے ہوئے بھی نیٹو کی سپورٹ میں 5000 فوجی بھیجے تھے ۔۔۔۔۔۔۔
> یہ تصویر ہمارے ان پاکستانی بھائیوں کے لیے ہے جن کے پیٹ میں درد آٹھ رہا ہے کہ اس طرح ایک ملک پر حملہ ناانصافی ہے ۔۔۔ لیکن ان کے لیے عرض ہے کہ یہ مکافاتِ عمل ہے ۔۔۔ اگر آپ کسی کے ساتھ زیادتی میں کبھی شریک بھی ہونگے تو آپ کو یا آپ کی نسل کو کبھی نہ کبھی ویسی ہی زیادتی کا سامنا کرنا پڑسکتا ہے ۔۔۔۔۔۔
> 
> View attachment 819707


Fake propaganda by Ruskies. Ukraine was firmly in Russian camp at that time and was blamed for supplying weapons to Saddam's forces.









Iraq: Are Belarus, Ukraine Selling Arms And Providing Weapons Training?


With U.S. President George W. Bush ratcheting up American rhetoric against Iraq's Saddam Hussein, attention is focusing on the alleged sales of arms systems to Baghdad by Ukraine and Belarus. As RFE/RL correspondent Jeffrey Donovan reports, the systems could help shoot down U.S. and British...




www.rferl.org

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## RescueRanger

srshkmr said:


> Ukranian ambassador implied the same during UNSC meet for Indian students


Yeah our citizens are not collective bargaining chip. Ukraine wanted freedom fries, she is welcome to them, leave us out of it please.

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## Primus

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498590316915482630


Thats not a Russian BMP. The destroyed BMP is a BMP1 which the ukrainians are currently operating

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498594314259251203

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498595216021938177

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498594640920027136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498595178541719553

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## RescueRanger

Huffal said:


> Thats not a Russian BMP. The destroyed BMP is a BMP1 which the ukrainians are currently operating


Beat me to it. Good spot BTW.

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## Mujahid Memon

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498516965941514240


Cowards. They will be Putin's next target

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498592735623888896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498596300828381184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498596436811960332

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498597263614124034


----------



## srshkmr

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498459994320216064
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498574127556440064
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498577632266539011


If jets fly from Poland and strike Russian targets, isnt it an escalation from the side of the Poles?

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## RescueRanger

50.45907612580977, 30.410251309232073 - Peremohy Ave, Kyiv

*Steady stream of civilian traffic leaving the city onwards towards Lviv. *








srshkmr said:


> If jets fly from Poland and strike Russian targets, isnt it an escalation from the side of the Poles?


*Jets wont fly from Poland*


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498599126229196806

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## Vergennes

Huffal said:


> Thats not a Russian BMP. The destroyed BMP is a BMP1 which the ukrainians are currently operating



Yes the Russian army isn't operating BMP1s...


----------



## INS_Vikrant

Ukraine is holding India and Africans students in capital as hostages or human shields. That veiled threat at UNSC meet wasn't a bluff.

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## RescueRanger

Journalist is hot micing over a Webcam, I will share the audio file pretty soon. There is real concern that the city will fall - troop movement from Belarus to Ukraine has been mentioned in this audio clip. 





__





Vimeo







vimeo.com


----------



## Jalut

DPR militia announces evacuation routes from ‘nearly-encircled’ Ukrainian city​Residents of Mariupol can leave the city either west or east, a spokesman for the Donetsk People’s Republic has said


https://www.rt.com/russia/550931-mariupol-evacuation-routes-militia/


----------



## That Guy

srshkmr said:


> If jets fly from Poland and strike Russian targets, isnt it an escalation from the side of the Poles?


Sure, but the Belarusians also allowed Russian forces ro attack from their territory. At this point, the Russians have their hands full, and Belarus has a shit military, nothing is gonna happen to the Poles, they can pretty much do what they want, outside of directly attacking Russia.

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## NA71

Now from Today the War has entered in the most dangerous phase....other countries now physically joind the Ukrainian resistance and from Day 1, Putin warned other to intervene.

in another move Ukrainian comedian has written a letter to EU/NATO to declare Ukraine as part of EU and full member of NATO.

Russia has already said that this will not be acceptable to Russia in any shape....The war will now become more intense and Complete annexation of Ukraine is very near.

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## That Guy

Jalut said:


> DPR militia announces evacuation routes from ‘nearly-encircled’ Ukrainian city​Residents of Mariupol can leave the city either west or east, a spokesman for the Donetsk People’s Republic has said
> 
> 
> https://www.rt.com/russia/550931-mariupol-evacuation-routes-militia/


I can't believe we're still calling them a militia, when we all know it's a bunch of mercs and Russian regulars.



NA71 said:


> Now from Today the War has entered in the most dangerous phase....other countries now physically joind the Ukrainian resistance and from Day 1, Putin warned other to intervene.
> 
> in another move Ukrainian comedian has written a letter to EU/NATO to declare Ukraine as part of EU and full member of NATO.
> 
> Russia has already said that this will be acceptable to Russia in any shape....The war will now become more intense and Complete annexation of Ukraine is very near.


Lol


----------



## Hydration

Falcon29 said:


> Molotov's shouldn't do any damage to armored vehicles. It's wrong in my eyes to kill someone over that. Just fire warning shots to scare people away and nothing more. Oddly enough, killing people over molotovs is more of an US/Israeli army thing. It's dehumanizing and criminal.


it does flatten tires o can leak inside to the crew you will be shot no doubt


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## Jalut

Fighting has started in Mariupol if this is unconfirmed or on the outskirts but this claims that fighting has started in Mariupool


----------



## Wood

Voices of descent from within Russia. Hope that they are not made to disappear


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498269581445632007

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## NA71

CNN/BBC seems covering armed conflict for the very first time .....even a gun shot is making heading....BC how did the bomb Iraq days and nights ...how Israelis are dropping hellfire on unarmed Palestinians every day.....do we see similar coverage?

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## RescueRanger

This video _alledges_ that the Ukrainians shelled this village upon retreating before it was captured by the DPR:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498606301009616898
*Conversation translated:

Cameraman: *This is the neighborhood came under DPR Control

*Woman: *We are healthy and continue to live

*Cameraman:* As the locals tell us the shelling started by the #Ukrainians immediately after they retreaded from this neighborhood. 

*Cameraman: *What time did they leave yesterday 

Cameraman: This is the neighborhood came under DPR Control

Woman: We are healthy and continue to live

Cameraman: As the locals tell us the shelling started by the #Ukrainians immediately after they retreaded from this neighborhood. 

Cameraman: What time did they leave yesterday 

*Man:* About 9 AM

*Cameraman: *After this the Ukrainian military retreated

*Man: *Yes 

*Woman and man talk over each other:* About 9

*Woman: *You are a very kind person - we are sorry!
About 9 AM

*Cameraman:* After this the Ukrainian military retreated

Man: Yes 

Woman and man talk over each other: About 9

Woman: You are a very kind person - we are sorry!

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## Jalut

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498605497703976964

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## jhungary

patero said:


> Great post, I completely agree. Just to add to Russia's growing list of problems, a build up of NATO forces in the Baltics, Poland and Romania will also force Russia to reinforce its borders, which will now include the Belarussian border now that they have basically declared themselves a vassal state.
> 
> Even if NATO isn't directly involved on the ground in Ukraine, it will make it harder for Russia to reinforce those forces already deployed if they have to worry about 'NATO 'aggression'.


I actually have strong ties with Ukraine, I have lived in Ukraine for a while and have quite a few friends I met and I even serve with the man that command the 95th Brigade during 2014 uprising in Iraq. 

A lot of people don't know this but the fact that Russia are going to Ukraine and destroy Ukraine is not a welcome move, a lot of Russian have root in Ukraine, I remember reading a report saying up to 1/3 of Russian either have root in Ukraine or have family member still in Ukraine. 

And this is no doubt sapping the morale of the combat troop in Russia. And that I think would probably be Putin final undoing. He basically underestimated the connection between normal Ukrainian and Russian. It's like Biden ask the people in Chicago or Minnesota to invade Canada, most people have relative on both side...

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498602414986911745


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## Trango Towers

A1Kaid said:


> Israel being an extension of America/Western Europe will likely have very rough relations going forward with Russia and Russia will support the frontline Arab states more than ever.


I have said time and againt that although I am against war as it benefits no one, a bipolar world is good for the Muslims world. In Syria hopefully tye Israeli Air raids can stop if the Russian threaten ti shoot them down. Israel will not want to fight Russia directly.

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## gambit

patero said:


> I use this thread to read usefull stuff, I've added about 60-70 posters to my already lengthy ignore list from this thread alone. You're on my very short list of people whose posts I bother reading, so I'm missing most of the armchair cheerleading (But I get it second hand everytime you and Jhungary engage with those on my ignore list).
> 
> I'm calling this Ukraine situation as I see it, one big mess that's only going to get messier.


Here are the *EXTERNAL* outcomes from what Poutine did...All in one week...

Remind NATO of its original _raison d'etre_
Got NATO to reorganize its forces
Got NATO to rethink its budget
Pushed neutral Finland and Sweden towards NATO
Ruined Russian civil aviation
Further ruined Russian economy
Degrade Russia global image
Revealed flaws and ineffectiveness of the Russian military
Granted, maybe item 8 is debatable because it may came from Poutine's originally restrained battle plans. But if that is true, then Poutine should have stayed a spy and left warfighting to the generals.

By sheer numerical superiority, Russia will take Ukraine. But Russia needs Ukraine and by 'needs', I mean Ukraine must be as functional a country as soon as possible in order to act as a geopolitical buffer. In this, there is little difference between Iraq and Afghanistan because the US needed both countries to be as functional as soon as possible under US guidance for Afghanistan not becoming a terrorist haven and Iraq not becoming a predatory state. Whether the US succeeded or not, there are plenty of existing discussions already so I will not get into those subjects here. Back in 1991, Desert Storm ground war lasted from Feb 24 to 28. On the 28th, the US declared a cease fire. Prior to the cease fire, Desert Storm air campaign lasted 30 days before the ground war. We do not see anything similar Ukraine. There was no 'shock and awe' but more like 'schlock and awshuck' from the Russian military. But by sheer numerical superiority, Russia will win.

So aside from the list of external outcomes, what can we expect from the coming guerrilla warfare? I do not believe the Ukrainians will be any less motivated than the Iraqi and Afghanistan insurgencies. The difference is that the Ukrainian insurgency will be much better supported in terms of global moral outrage, international finance, and qualitatively superior weapons. When Iraq fell, the ME did not got angry but actually breathed a sigh of relief. With Poutine, it is the opposite. Now tension increased, especially after Poutine made the nuclear alertness comment. Support for the Ukrainian insurgency will be even more assured.

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## Trango Towers

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498602414986911745


What indication is there that this is part of an elite unit and nit conscript unit?



gambit said:


> Here are the *EXTERNAL* outcomes from what Poutine did...All in one week...
> 
> Remind NATO of its original _raison d'etre_
> Got NATO to reorganize its forces
> Got NATO to rethink its budget
> Pushed neutral Finland and Sweden towards NATO
> Ruined Russian civil aviation
> Further ruined Russian economy
> Degrade Russian global image
> Revealed flaws and ineffectiveness of the Russian military
> Granted, maybe item 8 is debatable because it may came from Poutine's originally restrained battle plans. But if that is true, then Poutine should have stayed a spy and left warfighting to the generals.
> 
> By sheer numerical superiority, Russia will take Ukraine. But Russia needs Ukraine and by 'needs', I mean Ukraine must be as functional a country as soon as possible in order to act as a geopolitical buffer. In this, there is little difference between Iraq and Afghanistan because the US needed both countries to be as functional as soon as possible under US guidance for Afghanistan not becoming a terrorist haven and Iraq not becoming a predatory state. Whether the US succeeded or not, there are plenty of existing discussions already so I will not get into those subjects here. Back in 1991, Desert Storm ground war lasted from Feb 24 to 28. On the 28th, the US declared a cease fire. Prior to the cease fire, Desert Storm air campaign lasted 30 days before the ground war. We do not see anything similar Ukraine. There was no 'shock and awe' but more like 'schlock and awshuck' from the Russian military. But by sheer numerical superiority, Russia will win.
> 
> So aside from the list of external outcomes, what can we expect from the coming guerrilla warfare? I do not believe the Ukrainians will be any less motivated than the Iraqi and Afghanistan insurgencies. The difference is that the Ukrainian insurgency will be much better supported in terms of global moral outrage, international finance, and qualitatively superior weapons. When Iraq fell, the ME did not got angry but actually breathed a sigh of relief. With Poutine, it is the opposite. Now tension increased, especially after Poutine made the nuclear alertness comment. Support for the Ukrainian insurgency will be even more assured.


And finally the Muslim world will get a break from the genocide committed by America and the west. Shame on you. I really hope you pish the Russians and China is watching. The world now understands...White westerners will unite and use money as a tool. This is good 👍

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## The Eagle

This..... no support for defenders..... this, ...... exposing the hypocrisy..... this, no white being attacked.... this....... no human rights worth action.... this... no UN charter..... this.... is because a non-white is at receiving end.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498477038063484928

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## gambit

Trango Towers said:


> And finally the Muslim world will get a break from the genocide committed by America and the west. *Shame on you.*


Let me go find a hankie to cry...



Trango Towers said:


> I really hope you pish the Russians and China is watching. The world now understands...White westerners will unite and use money as a tool. This is good 👍


I call this a 'Vegas' comment...As in what happened in Vegas, stay in Vegas. So what you said will essentially remain in PDF. Not even the Muslim world shares it.



NA71 said:


> Just for memory refresher....USA initiated 81 armed conflicts around the world from 1941 to 2022


Thanks. Memory refreshed.

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## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498602414986911745


The Iveco LMV Lynx are used by 31st Guards Air Assault Brigade & ССО, so it's impossible to say with 100% certainty that these were being used by CCO or that Russia has decided to commit its most elite commando unit to the conflict.


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## Indos

Bengal71 said:


> China can do that probably but not other countries. For example, BD, Vietnam, Indonesia or Malaysia can probably do that but why would they do it? Why would they take the risk of exchanging commodities secretly while there is a risk of US and EU finding out and sanctioning them? There is nothing Russia produces that these countries can't get from elsewhere without taking the risk of sanction. Likewise for all countries except for China, NK, Iran and Venezuela.



Indonesia and Russia I believe will continue the cooperation to each other despite the sanction, our trade is not large but we have Russian company drilling oil and gas in Indonesia.


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## khail007

K_Bin_W said:


> 330 pages and Amreeka has still not liberated Ukraine I am very disappointed. Amreeka never took that long to liberate Kuwait and Eyraq and half a dozen other places... Is Amreeka OK, hope it's doing well!!!!



USA/West are only busy on media and keyboards.

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## jamahir

Turingsage said:


> Kenya denounces Russia and this rise of new imperialism with a lesson from Africa's own history



So this gentleman will not denounce NATO's imperialism in Eastern Europe and in his own Africa ? Until 1969 Libya had one of the biggest American military bases in the world and Gaddafi and comrades kicked that out. Gaddafi gone in 2011 and American imperialism in Africa is back.

The gentleman should look back at another great African leader, Kwame Nkrumah, who was of leftist persuasion and would have perhaps looked at the speaking gentleman's legitimization of NATO's POV with amusement.

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## NA71

gambit said:


> Let me go find a hankie to cry...
> 
> 
> I call this a 'Vegas' comment...As in what happened in Vegas, stay in Vegas. So what you said will essentially remain in PDF. Not even the Muslim world shares it.
> 
> 
> Thanks. Memory refreshed.



people in USA/UK are fighting Ukrainian War online due to COVID19.

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## Mujahid Memon

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498585875877351426


The excitement though. I wished our Anza MANPADS would be tested in that conflict but so far it seems impossible due to current political environment.


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## Trango Towers

gambit said:


> Let me go find a hankie to cry...
> 
> 
> I call this a 'Vegas' comment...As in what happened in Vegas, stay in Vegas. So what you said will essentially remain in PDF. Not even the Muslim world shares it.
> 
> 
> Thanks. Memory refreshed.


Whilst you are there wash you *** too. I know you like topical creams but it's really disgusting. And you people look at us as uncivilised

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## NA71

Where is Ukrainian Supreme Comedian....looking for American ride now? Russian assault won't stop despite his scripted belligerent statements.

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## khail007

Chacha_Facebooka said:


> He is on US senate intelligence committee.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497772049283969028



USA knows everything, 'hum ko sub maloom'.

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## NA71

Trango Towers said:


> Whilst you are there wash you *** too. I know you like topical creams but it's really disgusting. And you people look at us as uncivilised


Pretending loyal American .....

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498614439695859715

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## Trango Towers

NA71 said:


> Pretending loyal American .....


Well who knows where he is from.. probably an India dalat

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## NA71

khail007 said:


> USA knows everything, 'hum ko sub maloom'.


Did he also say anything about American Plans in Afghanistan? wasn't they were expecting a free cake walk through Afghanistan ?

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## Bengal71

Indos said:


> Indonesia and Russia I believe will continue the cooperation to each other despite the sanction, our trade is not large but we have Russian company drilling oil and gas in Indonesia.



Ok but other than the oil and gas drilling will you engage in any other trade? Do your exports go to US and EU? Don't you think they will sanction you?


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## Ali_Baba

Mujahid Memon said:


> The excitement though. I wished our Anza MANPADS would be tested in that conflict but so far it seems impossible due to current political environment.



That is so quick that it is hard to believe it is a manpad shot. More like a canon hit judging from the sound and the hit on the helicopter.

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## RescueRanger

Ali_Baba said:


> That is so quick that it is hard to believe it is a manpad shot.


😑

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## Arbiter

jhungary said:


> What people til now still don't understand is that
> 
> If Russia need this long and this much resource to conquer (Still conquering) Ukraine, how well would they perform when they are inevitably face with a Ukrainian insurgency that are almost certain to guarantee that is coming?
> 
> Notice that it took the US 4 months to invade and control the entire Iraq, I don't even think it is possible at this point to control the entire Ukraine. Which mean Western Ukraine is going to be like Fallujah and Tikrit, only with EU supplying and financing a insurgency from there. And we lost 136 men for the entire 4 months of campaign, Russia most likely lost 10 times that and it is still ongoing. And we have around 400,000 troop in the entire Iraq, Russia have what left of those 200,000
> 
> This is going to be an insurgent haven, and it get even worse, most of the Ukrainian can speak Russian and know their culture which means any insurgent activities is going to be worse because you can't tell which one is the good guy, which one is the insurgent, as they all speak Russian, they all look the same, and they all live with a similar culture. Which speak for my own COIN experience, make your task 10 times harder. (well, probably not 10 times, but still a lot)
> 
> And then we aren't fighting the insurgency while we are being sanction, we have steady supplies of food, ammunition and replacement. Russia is trying to fight an insurgency which is resource intensive and manpower intensive while under sanction..
> 
> Prospect is not good.


What people like you don't seem to understand is how Russia actually is waging this war. We have seen so many wars from USA that we are used to the American way of warfare, which is indiscriminate bombing and destruction of military and civilian infrastructure.

The fact that internet, mobile services, water, sewage, electricity etc haven't been targeted yet is proof of that. Usually in a war these are destroyed to disrupt communication, create panic and lower the morale. And if Russia wanted to they could easily have done this but so far they haven't. They are deliberately avoiding to destroy as much civilian infrastructure as possible. Now Russia might resort to that if it prolongs too much but so far they haven't. That's a further indication that the advancement they have made are within their planning or at least that they aren't desperate yet to do such kind of destruction.

Also we haven't seen the Russian airforce much in action. So far they have relied mostly on precision missile strikes. Only now we är seeing more use of the Russian airforce and heavy artillery. And we are on 5th day. Reportedly 150 k are mobilized for Ukraine campaign, out of which 50 000 Russian troops are in Ukraine right now while 100k are at the border still. So the territory under Russian control has been done in five days by roughly 50k troops. But now we are seeing more troops coming in now that big cities have been surrounded and under siege - probably preparing for urban warfare.

We also see that no advancement have been made to west Ukraine. Anybody that knows the geography and history of Ukraine knows that western part is the most anti russian. So what I believe Russia will do is simply ignore west Ukraine. They will focus on East, south and central. They will probably take the entire coast line and cut of Ukraine from the black sea. They will take the eastern and central part because that's where majority ethnic Russian and Russian speaking live. Also western Ukraine helped Hitler in fight against the USSR.

So if peace talk don't happen and they don't agree on something then I think western Ukraine will be left alone as a landlocked country.

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## jamahir

Trango Towers said:


> Well who knows where he is from.. probably an India dalat



An Indian Dalit you mean ? A lower caste Hindu oppressed for the last 3000 years. And you are spreading that oppression by using "Dalit" as a slur. I see some Pakistanis on PDF casually using such casteist words. Please desist.

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## EvoluXon

West left no choice for Russia but to attack.. US could not tolerate tiny communist Cuban state in its backyard in past .how can you expect Russia to sit idle while hostile NATO keeps eating its neighbouring states....

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## Vapnope

After all this arming of Ukraine by Europe and America, it would be interesting to see how Russia would react to this. Attacking more European countries seems like a total madness to me. This isn't a passive support of EU and West anymore, this is total active support militarily.


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## RealNapster

NA71 said:


> Just for memory refresher....USA initiated 81 armed conflicts around the world from 1941 to 2022

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498624454888468482

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## 1ndy

A Turkish Airline aircraft flying over Ukraine.


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## RescueRanger

EU Parliament President: 

“THIS MUST BE OUR WHATEVER IT TAKES MOMENT”
Russian officials will be banned from the EU Parliament building.
Europe must develop its own defensive partnership 
Europe will not rely on Russian Gas


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## Wesen Hunter

Looks like Kherson captured by Russians

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## Jalut

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498625983129206792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498625915726839809


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## RescueRanger

1ndy said:


> View attachment 819795
> 
> 
> A Turkish Airline aircraft flying over Ukraine.


Its flying through Poland:


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## jhungary

Arbiter said:


> What people like you don't seem to understand is how Russia actually is waging this war. We have seen so many wars from USA that we are used to the American way of warfare, which is indiscriminate bombing and destruction of military and civilian infrastructure.
> 
> The fact that internet, mobile services, water, sewage, electricity etc haven't been targeted yet is proof of that. Usually in a war these are destroyed to disrupt communication, create panic and lower the morale. And if Russia wanted to they could easily have done this but so far they haven't. They are deliberately avoiding to destroy as much civilian infrastructure as possible. Now Russia might resort to that if it prolongs too much but so far they haven't. That's a further indication that the advancement they have made are within their planning or at least that they aren't desperate yet to do such kind of destruction.
> 
> Also we haven't seen the Russian airforce much in action. So far they have relied mostly on precision missile strikes. Only now we är seeing more use of the Russian airforce and heavy artillery. And we are on 5th day. Reportedly 150 k are mobilized for Ukraine campaign, out of which 50 000 Russian troops are in Ukraine right now while 100k are at the border still. So the territory under Russian control has been done in five days by roughly 50k troops. But now we are seeing more troops coming in now that big cities have been surrounded and under siege - probably preparing for urban warfare.
> 
> We also see that no advancement have been made to west Ukraine. Anybody that knows the geography and history of Ukraine knows that western part is the most anti russian. So what I believe Russia will do is simply ignore west Ukraine. They will focus on East, south and central. They will probably take the entire coast line and cut of Ukraine from the black sea. They will take the eastern and central part because that's where majority ethnic Russian and Russian speaking live. Also western Ukraine helped Hitler in fight against the USSR.
> 
> So if peace talk don't happen and they don't agree on something then I think western Ukraine will be left alone as a landlocked country.


If I were invading Iraq, and I run a single division and go light into Iraq and see "If Saddam will surrender" and then got cut to piece, I would be blasted as "strategic imcompetent"

So, what you people don't understand is. if you are expecting a war, you don't "go light and see" and if you are expecting to "go light" you don't attack by 3 fronts and using tanks and soldier try to take any city.

What you people (Those who had either no military experience, or advance war planning experience) failed to see is, war is about killing people, everyday your people get killed sap your morale, more importantly increase the other side. so for this particular incident.* Either Russia underestimate a war or they miscalculated and think Ukraine will surrender, either way that is a Strategic Mistake* that is going to alter what happened after the war.

As with any military operation. *YOU MUST HAVE A CLEAR GOAL WHEN YOU LAUNCH AN OPERATION*, failure to do that in itself is a mistake. You simply can't say "Oh, I try to leave stuff intact and see how the other side react" You are supposed to know what the other side will react BEFORE you invade.

How hard is it to understand that?

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## Jalut

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498619325044908036


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## Abid123

sur said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498530974388264960


Wait? Did not all 13 Ukraine soldiers die?


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## Darius77

Wesen Hunter said:


> Looks like Kherson captured by Russians


That has been confirmed by Russian and international media. The aim is to trap around 100,000 Ukrainian Nazis in pincer like Zhukov did in 1943.

Russian Ministry of Defense spokesperson Igor Konashenkov announced that the city of Henichesk and Kherson International Airport had surrendered to Russian forces in the morning. Later, Russian forces encircled and captured a part of Kherson. They were eventually able to enter and capture Berdiansk.

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## Indos

Bengal71 said:


> Ok but other than the oil and gas drilling will you engage in any other trade? Do your exports go to US and EU? Don't you think they will sanction you?



I think US and EU will not likely to sanction Indonesia due to geopolitical reasons,

Indonesia is not part of countries that will do sanction to Russia, so we will cooperate normally and if some trade cannot be done due to SWIFT issue, so we can still do the trade using other means, Indonesia has made effort to minimize the trade using USD like what we have done with China and other nations

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## Arbiter

jhungary said:


> If I were invading Iraq, and I run a single division and go light into Iraq and see "If Saddam will surrender" and then got cut to piece, I would be blasted as "strategic imcompetent"
> 
> So, what you people don't understand is. if you are expecting a war, you don't "go light and see" and if you are expecting to "go light" you don't attack by 3 fronts and using tanks and soldier try to take any city.
> 
> What you people (Those who had either no military experience, or advance war planning experience) failed to see is, war is about killing people, everyday your people get killed sap your morale, more importantly increase the other side. so for this particular incident.* Either Russia underestimate a war or they miscalculated and think Ukraine will surrender, either way that is a Strategic Mistake* that is going to alter what happened after the war.
> 
> As with any military operation. *YOU MUST HAVE A CLEAR GOAL WHEN YOU LAUNCH AN OPERATION*, failure to do that in itself is a mistake. You simply can't say "Oh, I try to leave stuff intact and see how the other side react" You are supposed to know what the other side will react BEFORE you invade.
> 
> How hard is it to understand that?


You do realise that people of East, and south Ukraine are ethnic Russian. They have cultural, historical and family ties in Russia. There are cities right on the border of Ukraine and Russia. One and same cities in Ukraine and Russia. People have families across the border. 

Russia isn't attacking just any country. They are on territory where Russians live. That's why you see anti war protests in Russia because it's their own people. So of course Russia wouldn't indiscriminately bomb against what they consider their own people.

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## Darius77

Abid123 said:


> Wait? Did not all 13 Ukraine soldiers die?


Not one died, they all surrendered and are enjoying Russian hospitality. It appears that the western propaganda machine has hired all aspiring Baghdad Bob's . MSM lies are reaching comical propensity.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498627651325603842

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## Jalut

Putin always knew who his enemies were from the get go. It is the western leftists and they are the dominant element across the west whereas the far-right is marginalized political entity. The concept of the leftists aka progressives and Putin don't match and notice Putin is not a far-right or left his more central but his old-school fashion and looks for values whereas the left and progressives don't have values but basically gone full LGBT etc etc in that sense they are filth but they are much more humane in some other aspects

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## Bengal71

Indos said:


> I think US and EU will not likely to sanction Indonesia due to geopolitical reasons,
> 
> Indonesia is not part of countries that will do sanction to Russia, so we will cooperate normally and if some trade cannot be done due to SWIFT issue, so we can still do the trade using other means, Indonesia has made effort to minimize the trade using USD like what we have done with China and other nations



Ok, my point stands then. Some countries will be able to trade with Russia ignoring the sanctions but most countries in the world will not trade with Russia because of fear of sanctions.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498612647729811461

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498627872860389376

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## Trango Towers

jamahir said:


> An Indian Dalit you mean ? A lower caste Hindu oppressed for the last 3000 years. And you are spreading that oppression by using "Dalit" as a slur. I see some Pakistanis on PDF casually using such casteist words. Please desist.


Casteist words...what word would you use to describe a dalat? Do educate us Mr. Sorry must not call you Mr. you are probably binary neutral. 

Get of your Shetland pony and return to the real world

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## Dil Pakistan

EvoluXon said:


> West left no choice for Russia but to attack.. US could not tolerate tiny communist Cuban state in its backyard in past .how can you expect Russia to sit idle while hostile NATO keeps eating its neighbouring states....



Pakistan did not tolerate even the Super Powers (USSR and USA) in her backyard (Afghanistan) and fought two wars.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498630298560516096

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## jhungary

Arbiter said:


> You do realise that people of East, and south Ukraine are ethnic Russian. They have cultural, historical and family ties in Russia. There are cities right on the border of Ukraine and Russia. One and same cities in Ukraine and Russia. People have families across the border.
> 
> Russia isn't attacking just any country. They are on territory where Russians live. That's why you see anti war protests in Russia because it's their own people. So of course Russia wouldn't indiscriminately bomb against what they consider their own people.


The thing is the people who are fighting them see it differently. And that is the one that count. You can unilaterally think whatever you want, but if you blindly think that due to your own illusion, than you are taking an objectivity out of your combat objective.

Just because I think the People of Iraq is friendly, that DOES NOT EQUAL to they are friendly. And if you planned accordingly, that is your fault for not seeing the ground situation as is. 

In short, if the people now fighting them are "Their" people the casualty of Russia will not be that high, and who's fault is it? Are you going to blame the hostile people being hostile?


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## jamahir

Trango Towers said:


> Casteist words...what word would you use to describe a dalat? Do educate us Mr. Sorry must not call you Mr. you are probably binary neutral.
> 
> Get of your Shetland pony and return to the real world



"Dalit" literally means Oppressed. But if you do not empathize with the oppressed and instead participate in their oppression by covert or overt means ( like slurs ) what kind of Muslim are you ? Me hopping off my Shetland pony is immaterial here.

"If you tremble with indignation at every injustice then you are a comrade of mine".
- Che Guevara.

So another chap riding on a Shetland pony ?


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## Indos

Bengal71 said:


> Ok, my point stands then. Some countries will be able to trade with Russia ignoring the sanctions but most countries in the world will not trade with Russia because of fear of sanctions.



We will see what will happen in the next 2-3 weeks, but for European countries they are quite determined to pose the sanction, despite trade in energy commodities and agricultural products still have way to dodge the sanction like Germany I believe will keep buying Russian gas, something that is unaviodable

Indonesia position is condeming Russian invasion but we dont do sanction, part of it I believe due to cooperation between Indonesia and Russia and business deal between two countries that still going on which involve both SOE companies.

Other reason we dont do sanction is because US and Western countries dont sanction Israel despite Israel invade Palestine

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## RescueRanger

Air Raid Sirens heard in Kyiv:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498632101519892486

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## dBSPL

Jalut said:


> Putin always knew who his enemies were from the get go. It is the western leftists and they are the dominant element across the west whereas the far-right is marginalized political entity. The concept of the leftists aka progressives and Putin don't match and notice Putin is not a far-right or left his more central but his old-school fashion and looks for values whereas the left and progressives don't have values but basically gone full LGBT etc etc in that sense they are filth but they are much more humane in some other aspects


I find Putin's opposition to the moral collapse imposed by globalization very sincere and support it.

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## Arbiter

jhungary said:


> The thing is the people who are fighting them see it differently. And that is the one that count. You can unilaterally think whatever you want, but if you blindly think that due to your own illusion, than you are taking an objectivity out of your combat objective.
> 
> Just because I think the People of Iraq is friendly, that DOES NOT EQUAL to they are friendly. And if you planned accordingly, that is your fault for not seeing the ground situation as is.
> 
> In short, if the people now fighting them are "Their" people the casualty of Russia will not be that high, and who's fault is it? Are you going to blame the hostile people being hostile?


They consider the people in power in Ukraine to be anti Russian and infiltrated with neo Nazi, like the Azov regiment. So Russia consider them the enemy and themselves as liberators. Russians are perhaps more humane then they are portrayed in the west.

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## dBSPL

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498624454888468482


Russia is neither the enemy of Pakistan nor any other countries with similar geopolitical realities. This does not mean that we will be under the control of Russia. We should try to maintain relations based on fair and mutual interests and resisting the imposition of the Atlantic pact is the right policy here.

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## 1ndy

Russia trying hard to border itself with NATO countries... If they somehow manage to conquer Ukraine completely.


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## Titanium100

It is safe to assume that SU-57 is inferior to f16s rafale, f35, typhoon, j10, j20 etc etc... It couldn't eliminate MIGs and SU-24s

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## jhungary

Arbiter said:


> They consider the people in power in Ukraine to be anti Russian and infiltrated with neo Nazi, like the Azov regiment. So Russia consider them the enemy and themselves as liberators. Russians are perhaps more humane then they are portrayed in the west.



First of all, you are accusing a Jewish person (Zelenskyy) who have relative who died in the holocaust as a neo-nazi, just let that sink in for a moment.

Second. ALL available intel show that Ukrainian will fight and HAD ALREADY FOUGHT in the frontline of Eastern Ukraine for the last 8 years, and you still think there is a "Chance" they may surrender, that's stupid and absurd.

And finally, again, you expect something does not mean it will happen, and if you involve that calculation into your capability to raise war, *THAT WAS YOUR OWN MISTAKE*. You are* STARTING A WAR WITH AN INVASION*, exactly how humane can that be? Let's kill people humanely? Exactly how do you invade someone else country "Humanely"?

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## Darius77

Abid123 said:


> Wait? Did not all 13 Ukraine soldiers die?


Not one died, they all surrendered and are enjoying Russian hospitality. It appears that the western propaganda machine has hired all aspiring Baghdad Bob's . MSM lies are reaching comical propensity.


Jalut said:


> Putin always knew who his enemies were from the get go. It is the western leftists and they are the dominant element across the west whereas the far-right is marginalized political entity. The concept of the leftists aka progressives and Putin don't match and notice Putin is not a far-right or left his more central but his old-school fashion and looks for values whereas the left and progressives don't have values but basically gone full LGBT etc etc in that sense they are filth but they are much more humane in some other aspects


Putin is a cold war era realist and has a good grasp of REALPOLITIK and will push on with the Ukraine campaign until Russian objectives are met. The Kremlin just confirmed the long term outlook. The hammer is about to fall on Kiev. The days of soft war are coming to an end.

Russia vows to continue attack until its objectives are met​By Rachel Clun​Russia will continue its military operation in Ukraine until it achieves its goals, Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu said, the Interfax news agency reported on Tuesday.
Shoigu said Moscow’s main goal was protecting itself from threats created by the West and said Russia was not occupying Ukraine’s territory.









As it happened: Russia-Ukraine peace talks break up as huge explosions reported in Kyiv; floods worsen in NSW, Queensland as more evacuation orders issued


Russia continues its war on Ukraine as the Ukrainian President says the country’s capital is “constantly in danger”, and Russia’s assault on Kharkiv is a crime that should not go unpunished.




www.smh.com.au

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> Russia is neither the enemy of Pakistan nor any other countries with similar geopolitical realities. This does not mean that we will be under the control of Russia. We should try to maintain relations based on fair and mutual interests and resisting the imposition of the Atlantic pact is the right policy here.


Well said.

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## 1ndy

Indos said:


> We will see what will happen in the next 2-3 weeks, but for European countries they are quite determined to pose the sanction, despite trade in energy commodities and agricultural products still have way to dodge the sanction like Germany I believe will keep buying Russian gas, something that is unaviodable
> 
> Indonesia position is condeming Russian invasion but we dont do sanction, part of it I believe due to cooperation between Indonesia and Russia and business deal between two countries that still going on which involve both SOE companies.
> 
> Other reason we dont do sanction is because US and Western countries dont sanction Israel despite Israel invade Palestine


You can't senction anyone but get senctioned from doing trade with west...

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## Zibago

Indos said:


> Indonesia and Russia I believe will continue the cooperation to each other despite the sanction, our trade is not large but we have Russian company drilling oil and gas in Indonesia.


It would be difficult once Russia is sanctioned I mean US didnt hesitate going nuclear against Huawei so I dont know
That being said mixing of politics and trade will have repercussions in coming years

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## 1ndy

Zibago said:


> It would be difficult once Russia is sanctioned I mean US didnt hesitate going nuclear against Huawei so I dont know
> That being said mixing of politics and trade will have repercussions in coming years


trade with us or trade with them... it is that simple... And he knows very clearly, he can't be on losing side even if wants to.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498634962123345923


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## TNT

In past few days the western propaganda and their supporters portrayed a picture of Ukraine as Afghanistan on steroids. They were writing off russians as losers and total failure, as if in few days the Americans did any good in iraq or Afghanistan. This shows the west and their chamchas have one strong point and that is they lie professionally and can even fool experts. Here they also created a fake picture of Ukraine on verge of victory lolz, i could only laugh. But now as time goes by, their propaganda is being exposed and reality is getting evident. 
I dont support any side clearly but here we try to find the truth and address the reality. Seems most of the western tools here have disappeared or gone mute. In near future we will see how everything becomes evident.

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## Zibago

1ndy said:


> trade with us or trade with them... it is that simple... And he knows very clearly, he can't be on losing side even if wants to.


I think only China has the ability to defy sanctions by US


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## Trango Towers

jamahir said:


> "Dalit" literally means Oppressed. But if you do not empathize with the oppressed and instead participate in their oppression by covert or overt means ( like slurs ) what kind of Muslim are you ? Me hopping off my Shetland pony is immaterial here.
> 
> "If you tremble with indignation at every injustice then you are a comrade of mine".
> - Che Guevara.
> 
> So another chap riding on a Shetland pony ?


OK you have said much but the one question

What should a dalat be called yiu didnt answer?
Why didn't you answer this? If you are such a champion of the oppressed why r u not standing up for muslims oppressed in Palestine by nazis aka Israelis. Or Kashmir by the saffron gandoos 

I bet you won't answer. Because those that live in fairy lands seldom address real world problems

Besides educate your Hindus in India who's word its it. Your casts your problem...personally cast system is disgusting and so are fascists

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> Here are the *EXTERNAL* outcomes from what Poutine did...All in one week...
> 
> Remind NATO of its original _raison d'etre_
> Got NATO to reorganize its forces
> Got NATO to rethink its budget
> Pushed neutral Finland and Sweden towards NATO
> Ruined Russian civil aviation
> Further ruined Russian economy
> Degrade Russia global image
> Revealed flaws and ineffectiveness of the Russian military
> Granted, maybe item 8 is debatable because it may came from Poutine's originally restrained battle plans. But if that is true, then Poutine should have stayed a spy and left warfighting to the generals.
> 
> By sheer numerical superiority, Russia will take Ukraine. But Russia needs Ukraine and by 'needs', I mean Ukraine must be as functional a country as soon as possible in order to act as a geopolitical buffer. In this, there is little difference between Iraq and Afghanistan because the US needed both countries to be as functional as soon as possible under US guidance for Afghanistan not becoming a terrorist haven and Iraq not becoming a predatory state. Whether the US succeeded or not, there are plenty of existing discussions already so I will not get into those subjects here. Back in 1991, Desert Storm ground war lasted from Feb 24 to 28. On the 28th, the US declared a cease fire. Prior to the cease fire, Desert Storm air campaign lasted 30 days before the ground war. We do not see anything similar Ukraine. There was no 'shock and awe' but more like 'schlock and awshuck' from the Russian military. But by sheer numerical superiority, Russia will win.
> 
> So aside from the list of external outcomes, what can we expect from the coming guerrilla warfare? I do not believe the Ukrainians will be any less motivated than the Iraqi and Afghanistan insurgencies. The difference is that the Ukrainian insurgency will be much better supported in terms of global moral outrage, international finance, and qualitatively superior weapons. When Iraq fell, the ME did not got angry but actually breathed a sigh of relief. With Poutine, it is the opposite. Now tension increased, especially after Poutine made the nuclear alertness comment. Support for the Ukrainian insurgency will be even more assured.



This is 3 hours ago

*Finland to discuss joining Nato in wake of Ukraine invasion*

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertain...rnational-festival/ar-AAUsHiE?ocid=uxbndlbing





Finnish lawmakers will discuss the possibility of their country joining Nato in response to Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine on Tuesday.




© Jussi Nukari /AP Sanna Marin, Finland's prime minister, announced Helsinki would send weapons to help Ukraine. - Jussi Nukari /AP
The parliament debate is being held the day after an opinion poll showed that a majority of Finns were in favour of joining the Alliance for the first time.

Finland, which was invaded by the Soviet Union in 1939 and has Europe’s longest border with Russia, avoided taking sides in the Cold War and pursued a policy of non-alignment.

Increasing Russian belligerence, culminating in the invasion of Ukraine, has led to a landmark shift in attitudes in a country that was long reluctant to join Nato.

“It is very understandable that many Finns have changed or are changing their minds after Russia started waging war on Ukraine,” Sanna Marin, the prime minister, said on Monday.

The parliament debate was triggered after a petition to hold a referendum on Nato membership got 50,000 signatures in less than a week

Mr Putin listed Finland and neighbouring Sweden, which is also non-aligned, as countries that should be barred from Alliance membership as part of his security demands to the West before he invaded Ukraine. Finland insists on its right to apply for Nato membership if it wishes.

The poll by Finnish broadcasting company Yle found that 53 per cent of Finns were now in favour of joining Nato. That increases to 66 per cent if neighbouring Sweden, which is also non-aligned, joins at the same time, which has been mooted.

Some 28 per cent of Finns opposed membership and 19 per cent were unsure in the first opinion poll taken since Russia's invasion of Ukraine. It was carried out over three days, including the day before the invasion.

In a January opinion poll, 30 per cent of Finns were in favour of membership. A poll in December found that only 24 per cent of Finnish citizens were positive towards joining, an increase of 2 per cent from last year, with 51 per cent against membership. In 2017, just 19 per cent of Finns were in favour of joining Nato.

Nato insiders believe any membership process would be relatively quick one because the countries already comply with the many of the standards expected by the 30-nation bloc.

Ms Marin, who did not say if she personally backed joining Nato, said in Brussels that Finland would take the “historic” step of offering Ukraine weapons to help fight off the Russian invasion.

Elina Valtonen is a MP and vice-president of the National Coalition Party, which has supported Nato membership for Finland since 2006 and is in opposition to Ms Marin’s centre-Left Social Democratic Party led coalition.

She told the Telegraph in January, “Finland is closer than it has ever been to applying for Nato membership. For the first time people feel that the aggression that Russia has been executing towards its neighbours [...] also concerns Finland and Sweden.”

At the end of December, Atte Harjanne, the parliamentary head of the Green Party, called on it to reverse its long held stance against Nato membership and actively campaign for Finland to join the alliance.

Meanwhile, Alko, the state-owned monopoly that sells alcohol in Finland, has announced it will stop selling Russian vodka because of Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

“The situation in Ukraine is shocking and we have taken it seriously,” Anu Koskinen, a spokeswoman for the group, which offers more than 11,000 products including around 30 Russian products, mostly vodka, told AFP.





__





Finland to discuss joining Nato in wake of Ukraine invasion






www.msn.com

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## Indos

1ndy said:


> You can't senction anyone but get senctioned from doing trade with west...



Who do you think we cant sanction any one ? Indonesia is still embargoing Israel and close our Airspace to their plane.









Netanyahu took 2-hour detour to avoid Indonesia en route to Australia


PM arrived in Sydney after 11 hours in the air from Singapore, a journey that usually lasts 8.5 hours




www.timesofisrael.com

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## Wood

jhungary said:


> This is 3 hours ago
> 
> *Finland to discuss joining Nato in wake of Ukraine invasion*
> 
> https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertain...rnational-festival/ar-AAUsHiE?ocid=uxbndlbing
> View attachment 819801
> 
> Finnish lawmakers will discuss the possibility of their country joining Nato in response to Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine on Tuesday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> © Jussi Nukari /AP Sanna Marin, Finland's prime minister, announced Helsinki would send weapons to help Ukraine. - Jussi Nukari /AP
> The parliament debate is being held the day after an opinion poll showed that a majority of Finns were in favour of joining the Alliance for the first time.
> 
> Finland, which was invaded by the Soviet Union in 1939 and has Europe’s longest border with Russia, avoided taking sides in the Cold War and pursued a policy of non-alignment.
> 
> Increasing Russian belligerence, culminating in the invasion of Ukraine, has led to a landmark shift in attitudes in a country that was long reluctant to join Nato.
> 
> “It is very understandable that many Finns have changed or are changing their minds after Russia started waging war on Ukraine,” Sanna Marin, the prime minister, said on Monday.
> 
> The parliament debate was triggered after a petition to hold a referendum on Nato membership got 50,000 signatures in less than a week
> 
> Mr Putin listed Finland and neighbouring Sweden, which is also non-aligned, as countries that should be barred from Alliance membership as part of his security demands to the West before he invaded Ukraine. Finland insists on its right to apply for Nato membership if it wishes.
> 
> The poll by Finnish broadcasting company Yle found that 53 per cent of Finns were now in favour of joining Nato. That increases to 66 per cent if neighbouring Sweden, which is also non-aligned, joins at the same time, which has been mooted.
> 
> Some 28 per cent of Finns opposed membership and 19 per cent were unsure in the first opinion poll taken since Russia's invasion of Ukraine. It was carried out over three days, including the day before the invasion.
> 
> In a January opinion poll, 30 per cent of Finns were in favour of membership. A poll in December found that only 24 per cent of Finnish citizens were positive towards joining, an increase of 2 per cent from last year, with 51 per cent against membership. In 2017, just 19 per cent of Finns were in favour of joining Nato.
> 
> Nato insiders believe any membership process would be relatively quick one because the countries already comply with the many of the standards expected by the 30-nation bloc.
> 
> Ms Marin, who did not say if she personally backed joining Nato, said in Brussels that Finland would take the “historic” step of offering Ukraine weapons to help fight off the Russian invasion.
> 
> Elina Valtonen is a MP and vice-president of the National Coalition Party, which has supported Nato membership for Finland since 2006 and is in opposition to Ms Marin’s centre-Left Social Democratic Party led coalition.
> 
> She told the Telegraph in January, “Finland is closer than it has ever been to applying for Nato membership. For the first time people feel that the aggression that Russia has been executing towards its neighbours [...] also concerns Finland and Sweden.”
> 
> At the end of December, Atte Harjanne, the parliamentary head of the Green Party, called on it to reverse its long held stance against Nato membership and actively campaign for Finland to join the alliance.
> 
> Meanwhile, Alko, the state-owned monopoly that sells alcohol in Finland, has announced it will stop selling Russian vodka because of Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> “The situation in Ukraine is shocking and we have taken it seriously,” Anu Koskinen, a spokeswoman for the group, which offers more than 11,000 products including around 30 Russian products, mostly vodka, told AFP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finland to discuss joining Nato in wake of Ukraine invasion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com


I'm fairly certain that this is one of the 'red lines' that Putin was threatening about. Would NATO take this request seriously?


----------



## LeGenD

It is learned that Col. Oleksandr Oksanchenko - one of the finest Ukrainian pilots ever - fought and died in aerial clashes with the Russian Air Force near Kyiv on 25-02-22.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498572147907780609
RIP

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## 1ndy

Indos said:


> Who do you think we cant sanction any one ? Indonesia is still embargoing Israel and close our Airspace to their plane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Netanyahu took 2-hour detour to avoid Indonesia en route to Australia
> 
> 
> PM arrived in Sydney after 11 hours in the air from Singapore, a journey that usually lasts 8.5 hours
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com


You lose little for not doing trade with Isreal... and you banned yourself from doing trade with Israel not the other way around. 
It would called sanction if you can stop any other country from trading with Israel.

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## jhungary

Wood said:


> I'm fairly certain that this is one of the 'red lines' that Putin was threatening about. Would NATO take this request seriously?



It will, there are no restriction on Finland joining NATO, I don't see how any of the 26 member will reject this (If they all agree to help Ukraine). And majority of Fins want to join NATO. 

This would be happening if the Finnish parliament pass the legislation.

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## RescueRanger

*EU Commission President: *
*Temporary Protection Mechanism is to be activated to grant Ukrainians refugee status. 
*We feel we had to act 
*Our sanctions will take a toll on Russian Economies and transactions 
*"We have to end this financing of Putin's War"
"We will freeze all Russian Assets"
* "We are suspending the licenses of Sputnik and RT
* More than 30 countries have placed sanctions on Russia
* "WE ARE MORE UNITED THAN EVER"
* We will use the European budget to purchase and deliver weapons to a country that is at war! 
* We will end our dependence on Russian Gas - Norway has reached out
*500 Million Euro has been earmarked for the Humanitarian crisis both inside Ukraine and along its borders
* We extend our hard to the "OTHER RUSSIA AND ITS PEOPLE TO JOIN US".

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## mike2000 is back

Mujahid Memon said:


> Cowards. They will be Putin's next target


Don't worry, one day when Bulgarias government makes a silly move that antagonizes Russia, Russia might also seek a military operation to "protect ethnic Russians " living in Bulgaria. Then Bulgaria will understand what its neighbours have been going through as well. 😆 hopefully no country will come to their aid, can just give them moral support 😁

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## Wood

jhungary said:


> It will, there are no restriction on Finland joining NATO, I don't see how any of the 26 member will reject this (If they all agree to help Ukraine). And majority of Fins want to join NATO.
> 
> This would be happening if the Finnish parliament pass the legislation.


Soviet Union once applied to join the NATO alliance. If Putin is dethroned, then perhaps a pro-democratic Russia will choose to apply for NATO - EU membership as well

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## jhungary

mike2000 is back said:


> Don't worry, one day when Bulgarias government makes a silly move that antagonizes Russia, Russia might also seek a military operation to "protect ethnic Russians " living in Bulgaria. Then Bulgaria will understand what its neighbours have been going through as well. 😆 hopefully no country will come to their aid, can just give them moral support 😁


Well, the war in Ukraine actually shook Putin Allies in EU/NATO (namely Hungarian and Bulgaria President) and you know why?

Russia can do that to someone Russian considered "Little Brothers" what will they think Putin would do to them when they are in an "Enemy Organisation" called NATO?

Everybody want to be dictator, but it's another issue when Dictator turn on you.....

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## Arbiter

jhungary said:


> First of all, you are accusing a Jewish person (Zelenskyy) who have relative who died in the holocaust as a neo-nazi, just let that sink in for a moment.
> 
> Second. ALL available intel show that Ukrainian will fight and HAD ALREADY FOUGHT in the frontline of Eastern Ukraine for the last 8 years, and you still think there is a "Chance" they may surrender, that's stupid and absurd.
> 
> And finally, again, you expect something does not mean it will happen, and if you involve that calculation into your capability to raise war, *THAT WAS YOUR OWN MISTAKE*. You are* STARTING A WAR WITH AN INVASION*, exactly how humane can that be? Let's kill people humanely? Exactly how do you invade someone else country "Humanely"?


I am not accusing anyone, just presented how Russia views this war. And besides, hardly ever do you have one person making every decision in a country. But rather a group of people. 

War is war and war is not humane. But so far Russia hasn't bombed the living shit out of the civilian infrastructure, rather seem to be avoiding to cause such destruction as much as possible. Far cry from liberators of Iraq that killed a million people.

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## jhungary

Wood said:


> Soviet Union once applied to join the NATO alliance. If Putin is dethroned, then perhaps a pro-democratic Russia will choose to apply for NATO - EU membership as well


We don't need Russia.......This is going to be a dump after EU and US done with their economy..........

I will say let the Chinese have it.

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## nufix

Indos said:


> Indonesia and Russia I believe will continue the cooperation to each other despite the sanction, our trade is not large but we have Russian company drilling oil and gas in Indonesia.



The case with CAATSA proves that Russia-Indonesia ties is not that strong the begin with. The decision to abide by CAATSA and drop the Sukhoi deal proved that trade ties with the US and the west weighed heavier than the trade with Russia.

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## Saho

Normalizing discrimination and xenophobia against Russian people everywhere has really left a sour on my mouth. 

Do those idiots know this is what Putin wants and will cause them to hate the West even more?


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## RescueRanger

Polish President Andrzej Duda says to NATO sec gen Jens Stoltenberg:* “Poland will not be sending any jets to Ukrainian airspace.” Stoltenberg says and reiterated “NATO will NOT enter the conflict”





*
15'48" Question on jets for Ukraine
SG NATO: not moving airplane into Ukrainian airspace
19'25" (translated reply Poland)
Duda: not sending any plane

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## Wood

jhungary said:


> We don't need Russia.......This is going to be a dump after EU and US done with their economy..........
> 
> I will say let the Chinese have it.


In my experience, most Russian people that I've dealt with have a pro western outlook in cultural aspects. It is only that their political opinion that is not with the western nations. Political opinions are often based on national media narrative and can change in a relatively quick timeframe. I suspect that a truly democratic Russia would be politically very different from what it seems to be today.

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## Mujahid Memon

Wood said:


> Soviet Union once applied to join the NATO alliance.

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## Zibago

Saho said:


> Normalizing discrimination and xenophobia against Russian people everywhere has really left a sour on my mouth.
> 
> Do those idiots know this is what Putin wants and will cause them to hate the West even more?


Muslims

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## Wood

Mujahid Memon said:


> View attachment 819807











Molotov's Proposal that the USSR Join NATO, March 1954


CWIHP is pleased to announce the addition of a new document to its online Digital Archive. CWIHP e-Dossier No. 27 contains a 1954 proposal by Soviet Foreign Minister V. M. Molotov, in which he proposed that the USSR Join NATO.




www.wilsoncenter.org





Soviet Union was trolling NATO

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## jhungary

Arbiter said:


> I am not accusing anyone, just presented how Russia views this war. And besides, hardly ever do you have one person making every decision in a country. But rather a group of people.
> 
> War is war and war is not humane. But so far Russia hasn't bombed the living shit out of the civilian infrastructure, rather seem to be avoiding to cause such destruction as much as possible. Far cry from liberators of Iraq that killed a million people.


30% of Ukrainian are Jewish or have Jewish root, and 25 out of 450 Rada administration are Jewish. Sure, one man cannot make decision, but a group did, and a large group of Ukrainian are Jewish or have Jewish root. Don't forget, Ukraine is the place where Soviet Union deport almost all the Jews to (another group went to Poland and Belarus.) Can you even see the irony for a country that origin have deported all the Jews out of their territories accusing the place that they send all the Jews to as "Neo-Nazi"? Pretty sure the irony did not lost on me.









History of the Jews in Russia - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Just because you did not bomb the heck out of a country does not mean they are not going to be hostile to you. They hate you not because of whether or not you bomb their country, they hate you because you invaded their country. As I said, this have nothing to do with War Planning, this is what Putin said to "Justify" his war. If he believe in his own delusion then he should not be in charge of the operation, because all those Russian soldier that were killed is directly because of him.

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## jamahir

Trango Towers said:


> OK you have said much but the one question
> 
> What should a dalat be called yiu didnt answer?
> Why didn't you answer this?



Call the Dalit a Dalit for that is the right word but know the oppression against them and don't participate in it.



Trango Towers said:


> If you are such a champion of the oppressed why r u not standing up for muslims oppressed in Palestine by nazis aka Israelis. Or Kashmir by the saffron gandoos
> 
> I bet you won't answer. Because those that live in fairy lands seldom address real world problems
> 
> Besides educate your Hindus in India who's word its it. Your casts your problem...personally cast system is disgusting and so are fascists



Palestine : I have often written about the One State Solution for that region, the Isratin Solution proposed by the Libyans. Since the Palestinians in West Bank, Gaza and elsewhere want to live peacefully and since the Jews in Israel cannot be thrown into the sea there has to be a compromise solution which is Isratin, a democratic country populated with the Palestinians ( Muslims and Christians ) and the people of Israel ( whether Jew or Muslim or other ) and a country which has given up WMDs.

Kashmir : I have presented this solution two years ago :








A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and Pakistan


A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and Pakistan Written by: Jamahir Category cloud: Opinion, analysis India and Pakistan need to settle the long, sad but frankly immature dispute over Kashmir once and for all. Peacefully and politically. Both have similar social...



defence.pk

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## Maarkhoor

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498627651325603842


Bro this was Ukrainian.

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## jhungary

Mujahid Memon said:


> View attachment 819807


They did in *1954.

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## RescueRanger

*Belarussian troops have entered Ukraine: *

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## Trango Towers

jamahir said:


> Call the Dalit a Dalit but know the oppression against them and don't participate in it.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine : I have often written about the One State Solution for that region, the Isratin Solution proposed by the Libyans. Since the Palestinians in West Bank, Gaza and elsewhere want to live peacefully and since the Jews in Israel cannot be thrown into the sea there has to be a compromise solution which is Isratin, a democratic country populated with the Palestinians ( Muslims and Christians ) and the people of Israel ( whether Jew or Muslim or other ) and a country which has given up WMDs.
> 
> Kashmir : I have presented this solution two years ago :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and Pakistan
> 
> 
> A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and Pakistan Written by: Jamahir Category cloud: Opinion, analysis India and Pakistan need to settle the long, sad but frankly immature dispute over Kashmir once and for all. Peacefully and politically. Both have similar social...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


After all that waffling you tell me to call a dalit a dalit. What a waste of time .
Who doesn't know the suffering and oppression of dalats. So I suggest fix your Hindu faith and fix the chappy oppressive caste system. 

Not my monkey not my circus


----------



## Indos

nufix said:


> The case with CAATSA proves that Russia-Indonesia ties is not that strong the begin with. The decision to abide by CAATSA and drop the Sukhoi deal proved that trade ties with the US and the west weighed heavier than the trade with Russia.



Current sanction is not like CAATSA, in CAATSA countries who buy Russian defense equipment will get sanction, while for this current sanction it is just focusing on Russian and make it difficult for any countries to do trade with Russia, there is no clause saying US and the West will sanction country who do trade with Russia.

The US and NATO allies also will band themselves selling technology products to Russian, they dont ask other countries to do similar thing

Actually not all Russian banks will be banned in SWIFT system, countries can still trade with Russia using other Russian banks, and so far trade in energy and commodities can still be done despite some difficulties will exist. This is why oil and gas price dont jump beyond 110 USD perbarrel and still trade within 98-105 USD per barrel.

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## jamahir

Trango Towers said:


> After all that waffling you tell me to call a dalit a dalit. What a waste of time .
> Who doesn't know the suffering and oppression of dalats. So I suggest fix your Hindu faith and fix the chappy oppressive caste system.
> 
> Not my monkey not my circus



You are in the forum for six years yet you don't know my identities ? Here they are : Muslim, Communist, Human. Now reconfigure your reply to me.


----------



## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> *Belarussian troops have entered Ukraine: *
> View attachment 819809
> 
> View attachment 819810
> View attachment 819811
> View attachment 819812
> View attachment 819813
> View attachment 819814


All those vehicle have V marking on it, it's from Vostok, Eastern Russia, not Belarus.

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## Indos

1ndy said:


> You lose little for not doing trade with Isreal... and you banned yourself from doing trade with Israel not the other way around.
> It would called sanction if you can stop any other country from trading with Israel.



Well Indonesian government will sanction Indonesian companies who do trade with Israel, most trade is done within private sectors realm. It is still called a sanction and Israel companies are the ones who has already get the sanction by our government policy, similar think like how US and European sanction Russian

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## Trango Towers

jamahir said:


> You are in the forum for six years yet you don't know my identities ? Here they are : Muslim, Communist, Human. Now reconfigure your reply to me.


Well u are a pixel so not significant to me.
Muslim belive in God
Communists belive in nothing.
I think you don't know who u are.
Configure your brain so you can speak logically.

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## dBSPL

In terms of Turkey, we are faced with a loss of billions of dollars in total. And some uncertainties arose in very critical areas. For example, what will happen to the Ukrainian Milgems?

Absolutely, we live in a Cursed geography.  Maybe we were not affected as much as Pakistan in the Afghanistan war, but we are among the countries that are most affected in all other wars and war-degree tensions in some way.

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## RescueRanger

RescueRanger said:


> These images from MAXAR show a Pontoon bridge being constructed over the Prypyat River in Belarus:
> View attachment 819518
> 
> 
> View attachment 819520



So my Initial spot was correct, Belarusian troops have entered Ukraine via a platoon bridge constructed near to Pripyat River from here they will move to Irpin and onward to Kyiv.

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## 1ndy

Indos said:


> Well Indonesian government will sanction Indonesian companies who do trade with Israel, most trade is done within private sectors realm. It is still a sanction and Israel companies are the ones who has already get the sanction


You sanctioned yourself... and no one can stop you from doing trade with Russia... but then US and Europe will sanctioned themselves from doing trade with Indonesia... 

You still can keep trading with Russia...


----------



## Darius77

RescueRanger said:


> *Belarussian troops have entered Ukraine: *
> View attachment 819809
> 
> View attachment 819810
> View attachment 819811
> View attachment 819812
> View attachment 819813
> View attachment 819814


That was expected and they have RED recognition markers on their vehicles. It is a smaller force but more ethnically cohesive and professional. They are bringing in a lot of AD systems to neutralize any air threats to the advancing Russians.

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## dBSPL

jamahir said:


> You are in the forum for six years yet you don't know my identities ? Here they are : Muslim, Communist, Human. Now reconfigure your reply to me.


We could label it as a green communist who occasionally watches ****.

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## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


> All those vehicle have V marking on it, it's from Vostok, Eastern Russia, not Belarus.


Taken from an official account: 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498626312998727687

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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> Taken from an official account:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498626312998727687


Those are Russian armor on a train going to Ukraine. And the official account did not say they are in Ukraine.....It said ByPol is stopping Russian equipment form going inside Belarus on railway car

"Belarusians are preventing *Russian troops *and vehicles from moving inside *Belarus*. Bypol reported Belarusians started to disrupt the operation of railways that carry Russian tanks and cars to the Belarus-Ukraine. The people of Belarus stand with our neighbors."


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## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


> This one don' have V marking. And the official account did not say they are in Ukraine.....


Follow the thread on Telegram please
https://****/s/motolkohelp
Thanks.


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## jamahir

Trango Towers said:


> Well u are a pixel so not significant to me.
> Muslim belive in God
> Communists belive in nothing.
> I think you don't know who u are.
> Configure your brain so you can speak logically.



Oh man, how many more misinformed people on the forum I have to educate ! Tagging you in my thread from 2016 whose OP is an article by Pakistani journalist Nadeem Paracha and is about Socialist and Communist activism among Muslims since the early 1900s. Long before you were born.



dBSPL said:


> We could label it as a green communist who occasionally watches ****.



Yes we could say that.


----------



## Indos

1ndy said:


> You sanctioned yourself... and no one can stop you from doing trade with Russia... but then US and Europe will sanctioned themselves from doing trade with Indonesia...
> 
> You still can keep trading with Russia...



Hei Indian stop talking nonsense, US sanctioning Russian companies, so why it is different when we sanction Israel companies who want to do trade with Indonesia and sell their products here.

LOL keep dreaming US and Europe try to sanction Indonesia, better you worried on Indian economy due to this war

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## Joe Shearer



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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> Follow the thread on Telegram please
> https://****/s/motolkohelp
> Thanks.


I am not going to follow anything, but I will say the source you quote me is not what you are saying.


----------



## mike2000 is back

dBSPL said:


> In terms of Turkey, we are faced with a loss of billions of dollars in total. And some uncertainties arose in very critical areas. For example, what will happen to the Ukrainian Milgems?
> 
> Absolutely, we live in a Cursed geography.  Maybe we were not affected as much as Pakistan in the Afghanistan war, but we are among the countries that are most affected in all other wars and war-degree tensions in some way.


I think the only issue here for Turkey is that E.U and NATO is very united like ever since the end of the cold War. So sanctions are going to be quite serious and restrictive. So NATO and the West won't be as tolerant for its members to be as cozy with Russia anymore unlike before when E.U overlooked that. A new dynamic is now taking shape . So Turkey might have less room to manoeuvre with Russia. 
Even E.U countries and politicians who were pro Russia and complacent about spending on European security or joining NATO are now seriously reviewing and changing all their policy vis a vis Russia to a hostile one. In fact the US./Trump for example had been lamenting for years about E.U countries been complacent on spending on defence believing there are secure and there will never be an invasion from Russia in any European neighbourhood. Trump ranted and ranted to the point of threatening to pull the U.S out of NATO/E.U if E.U countries don't up their defence spending in line with what was agreed on paper by NATO during its founding and subsequent reviews, but European countries like Germany and others still refused to do that and maintained their passive posture. 
This Russian invasion has changed everything completely. Things the U.S and U.K had not been able to achieve after trying for decades. Ironic actually.

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## TheNoob

Arbiter said:


> I am not accusing anyone, just presented how Russia views this war. And besides, hardly ever do you have one person making every decision in a country. But rather a group of people.
> 
> War is war and war is not humane. But so far Russia hasn't bombed the living shit out of the civilian infrastructure, rather seem to be avoiding to cause such destruction as much as possible. Far cry from liberators of Iraq that killed a million people.



Something that US and its shills wont admit to.

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## Darius77

jhungary said:


> Those are Russian armor on a train going to Ukraine. And the official account did not say they are in Ukraine.....It said ByPol is stopping Russian equipment form going inside Belarus on railway car
> 
> "Belarusians are preventing *Russian troops *and vehicles from moving inside *Belarus*. Bypol reported Belarusians started to disrupt the operation of railways that carry Russian tanks and cars to the Belarus-Ukraine. The people of Belarus stand with our neighbors."


The Ukrainians are telling so many lies that Baghdad Bob is writhing in his grave. I have been fact checking the Ukrainian claims and 95% are total lies. Russian figures are more rare but accurate.

Major _General Igor_ Yevgenyevich Konashenkov is the chief _spokesman_ for the Ministry of Defence of the _Russian_ Federation. He has served in the _Russian_ Aerospace Defence units in Syria and is respected for his professional briefings and veracity.

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498646824269320195

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## 1ndy

Indos said:


> Hei Indian stop talking nonsense, US sanctioning Russian companies, so why it is different when we sanction Israel companies who want to do trade with Indonesia and sell their products here.
> 
> LOL keep dreaming US and Europe try to sanction Indonesia, better you worried on Indian economy due to this war


Now you come to your senses... My economy isn't in good shape right now and I am not one boasting about sanctioning anyone... and yes you still keep trading with Russia while US and Europe gets themselves sanctioned.


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

The life cycle of the eastern European: eat, sleep, hate Russia. They don't even have names, they're all called "I hate Russia."

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## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


> I am not going to follow anything, but I will say the source you quote me is not what you are saying.


 okay, i'll go back to sipping my tea. No skin of my back

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498647741152514050

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## jhungary

TheNoob said:


> Something that US and its shills wont admit to.


Have you even been to Ukraine?? Like Ever?

Maybe you should really go out there and see for yourself before you are calling people shill

It's funny, because staying at home towing line on something you know nothing about is the definition of "Shill"

LOL



RescueRanger said:


> okay, i'll go back to sipping my tea. No skin of my back


I am not saying you are faking it or anything.

I am just saying I won't buy anything unless it is official, I was a Military Intelligence Officer, I only believe what I see. I have no Qualm for you get your information from Telegram or so on.


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## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


> I am not saying you are faking it or anything.


Brother I really couldn't care less. It's all good!

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## jamahir

RescueRanger said:


> Taken from an official account:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498626312998727687



Are these people preventing only Russian units or Belarus units too ?

Perhaps Belarus is being readied for another CIA-initiated color revolution. These particular people must not allow themselves to be influenced by Western populist sentiment. They must allow the units to get into Ukraine.



Joe Shearer said:


> View attachment 819818



Sad. A future doctor for India as well as for others. But I must ask who declared him killed by the Russians ? We have watched vids of Ukranian military and police assaulting Indian students including girls.

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## jhungary

Darius77 said:


> The Ukrainians are telling so many lies that Baghdad Bob is writhing in his grave. I have been fact checking the Ukrainian claims and 95% are total lies. Russian figures are more rare but accurate.
> 
> Major _General Igor_ Yevgenyevich Konashenkov is the chief _spokesman_ for the Ministry of Defence of the _Russian_ Federation. He has served in the _Russian_ Aerospace Defence units in Syria and is respected for his professional briefings and veracity.



Care to share some "fact" that you proof 95% are lies?

Also, it depends on what you use as a yard stick to "fact check" your information. Your "lies" may not be the same of someone else's "lies"


----------



## Arbiter

jhungary said:


> 30% of Ukrainian are Jewish or have Jewish root, and 25 out of 450 Rada administration are Jewish. Sure, one man cannot make decision, but a group did, and a large group of Ukrainian are Jewish or have Jewish root. Don't forget, Ukraine is the place where Soviet Union deport almost all the Jews to (another group went to Poland and Belarus.) Can you even see the irony for a country that origin have deported all the Jews out of their territories accusing the place that they send all the Jews to as "Neo-Nazi"? Pretty sure the irony did not lost on me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> History of the Jews in Russia - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just because you did not bomb the heck out of a country does not mean they are not going to be hostile to you. They hate you not because of whether or not you bomb their country, they hate you because you invaded their country. As I said, this have nothing to do with War Planning, this is what Putin said to "Justify" his war. If he believe in his own delusion then he should not be in charge of the operation, because all those Russian soldier that were killed is directly because of him.


Yeah but that doesn't mean that neo nazi group doesn't exist. In fact, the people who stormed the parliament in 2014 were exactly that. Ever since then they have played a larger role in Ukraine politics. Azov regiment is now officially part of the army. The divide within the country itself is deep. In western Ukraine - their national hero, Stepan Bandera - is someone who helped nazi germany against the USSR. While in the south and east their national heroes are the ones who fought against Stepan Bandera and nazi Germany. That illustrates the divide that exists between ethnic russian and ukranians.

After the storming and overthrow of the government of Ukraine in 2014. The nazists burned 30-40 people while locking them inside a building in Odessa, these people were ethnic russians. This led to Crimeans parliament declaring independence and rebellion in Donbass region. So yes, nazi ideologi has infiltrated the power elite in Ukraine.

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## RescueRanger



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## nufix

Indos said:


> Current sanction is not like CAATSA, in CAATSA countries who buy Russian defense equipment will get sanction, while for this current sanction it is just focusing on Russian and make it difficult for any countries to do trade with Russia, there is no clause saying US and the West will sanction country who do trade with Russia.
> 
> The US and NATO allies also will band themselves selling technology products to Russian, they dont ask other countries to do similar thing
> 
> Actually not all Russian banks will be banned in SWIFT system, countries can still trade with Russia using other Russian banks, and so far trade in energy and commodities can still be done despite some difficulties will exist. This is why oil and gas price dont jump beyond 110 USD perbarrel and still trade within 98-105 USD per barrel.



True, I am not saying CAATSA is equal to the sanction currently enacted on the Russian. I just pointed out that while Indonesia might still do trade with Russia, Indonesia might eventually join the West in limiting trade with Russia given enough pressure from the West. This can be seen from the CAATSA case. Indonesia was still going for Russian jets even as recent as 2021, but when the US increased the pressure and also provided Indonesia with a comparable alternative like F15 EX, Indonesia no longer saw benefits in buying the Russian jets.

And I sense that the West will eventually pressure more countries to impose sanction against Russia, especially countries whose products are irreplaceable for Russia. In the case of Indonesia-Russia trade, Indonesia actually has the upper hand due to the fact that Indonesia's palm oil and rubber products are not easily replaceable. Indonesia maintains surplus trade balance with Russia thanks to those products since Indonesia happens to be the biggest palm oil producers and second biggest rubber producer. Palm oil and rubber account for over 1/3 of Indonesia's export to Russia. Meanwhile, Russia's biggest exports to Indonesia are coal briquettes, semi-finished irons, and petrols... Those are commodities that Indonesia is able to produce on its own (third biggest coal producer, major oil producer, biggest biodiesel producer) or source from other countries (iron products from India, Australia, Japan).









Russia (RUS) and Indonesia (IDN) Trade | OEC


Find the latest trade data and tariffs between Russia and Indonesia.




oec.world

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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498646371129253892


----------



## RescueRanger

Ukraine claims Belarus has crossed border to join Putin's invasion


In a statement on Twitter, the country’s parliament said Belarusian troops had entered the Chernihiv region.




metro.co.uk






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498650260154970112

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## Trango Towers

jamahir said:


> Oh man, how many more misinformed people on the forum I have to educate ! Tagging you in my thread from 2016 whose OP is an article by Pakistani journalist Nadeem Paracha and is about Socialist and Communist activism among Muslims since the early 1900s. Long before you were born.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes we could say that.


As I said pixel. Have a nice day. Conversation over


----------



## jhungary

Arbiter said:


> Yeah but that doesn't mean that neo nazi group doesn't exist. In fact, the people who stormed the parliament in 2014 were exactly that. Ever since they have played a larger role in Ukraine politics. Azov regiment is now officially part of the army. The divide within the country itself is deep. In western Ukraine - their national hero, Stepan Bandera - is somehow who helped nazi germany against the USSR. While in the south and east their national hero is the ones who fought against Stepan Bandera and nazi Germany. That illustrates the divide that exists between ethnic russian and ukranians.
> 
> After the storming and overthrow of the government of Ukraine in 2014. The nazists burned 30-40 people while locking them inside a building in Odessa, these people were ethnic russians. This led to Crimeans parliament declaring independence and rebellion in Donbass region. So yes, nazi ideologi has infiltrated the power elite in Ukraine.


True, but then there are neo-nazi group that exist everywhere, INCLUDING RUSSIA.









Neo-Nazis in Russia - The Borgen Project


With the upcoming Winter Olympics, there is growing concern over the actions of Neo-Nazis in Russia.




borgenproject.org





But then can you name me one "Neo Nazi" influence beside Azov Battalion? You do know that Azov Battalion is a small Military Unit (about 400 men) in Ukrainian National Guard. I mean they aren't even big as a miltiary unit, let alone have any real meaningful effect on the government as a whole.

Also, do you know how Russian treated Captured Ukrainian journalist who cover the Pro-Russian rebel capture and execute the government (Burn them alive) official in Eastern Ukraine?? They broke their fingernail and cut off their arms then execute them. And do you know what those Russia was called by the Ukrainian? - Nazis

So which side is the real Nazis here? Russia or Ukraine? It depends on your perspective, if you are Russian, Ukrainian are the Nazis, and if you are a Ukrainian, then the Russian are Nazis. So tell me, have you been to either place to know which one is Nazi? Or you are just telling me because you took someone view?

Finally, the prespective of Maidan "Overthrowing" a legitimate government is false, Yanukovych government were not a majority government, he only got 48.7% of vote, he has a power sharing deal with Tymoshenko to govern the country. But then he jailed Tymoshenko and rolled back the EU deal (Which is part of the power sharing deal) Before Maidan happen, Tymoshenko party already pull out the power sharing deal and triggered a election, true, by definiton, Yanukovych is still the president, but the government of Ukraine is no longer valid as the parliament is dissolved, that is when Yanukovych realise he cannot possibly win another election and going to jail and flee the country with 2 billions dollars. That is what started Maidan.

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## SABRE

Joe Shearer said:


> View attachment 819818



Diplorable.

There has been, at least, one Pakistani casualty from what I have heard. Details are extremely limited.

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## RescueRanger

jamahir said:


> Are these people preventing only Russian units or Belarus units too ?
> 
> Perhaps Belarus is being readied for another CIA-initiated color revolution. These particular people must not allow themselves to be influenced by Western populist sentiment. They must allow the units to get into Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> Sad. A future doctor for India as well as for others. But I must ask who declared him killed by the Russians ? We have watched vids of Ukranian military and police assaulting Indian students including girls.


Well consider this for a second:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498649984308334604
Either Ms. Zhang didn't get the memo or there is a lot more to this than meets the eye 



Joe Shearer said:


> View attachment 819818


That is really sad to hear, my thoughts are with all victims of conflict at this time.

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## Trango Towers

dBSPL said:


> In terms of Turkey, we are faced with a loss of billions of dollars in total. And some uncertainties arose in very critical areas. For example, what will happen to the Ukrainian Milgems?
> 
> Absolutely, we live in a Cursed geography.  Maybe we were not affected as much as Pakistan in the Afghanistan war, but we are among the countries that are most affected in all other wars and war-degree tensions in some way.


Don't worry. Things have a way of changing for the better alwaysb

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## Ali_Baba

Russians just warned via BBC News that they are "entering a new phase of bombardments of the Capital - with security buildings/goverment buildings as the focus "...

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## RescueRanger

Lukashenko says Belarus deploying more forces to Ukraine border


Belarus is deploying more forces on its border with Ukraine, state news agency Belta quoted Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko as saying on Tuesday.




www.reuters.com





MOSCOW, March 1 (Reuters) - Belarus is deploying more forces on its border with Ukraine, state news agency Belta quoted Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko as saying on Tuesday.

"Those are well trained rapid deployment groups which are ready to stop any provocation and any military action against Belarus," Lukashenko said.


----------



## Meengla

Per my latest understanding, Ukrainian gave a bloody nose to Russia initially but the Russians have regrouped and are gaining ground. Also, *Zelensky had asked Americans for a No Fly Zone for Russian aircrafts but that request has been rejected by Washington* saying America doesn't want to be in a direct conflict with Russia.

I still think it is cruel and even stupid for Russia to try to take Kiev. If they have genuine security concerns--which they do IMO--then a slice of eastern Ukraine would be enough to not only provide some buffer but also used as bargaining chip to negotiate a way to end this conflict.

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## Trango Towers

Ali_Baba said:


> Russians just warned via BBC News that they are "entering a new phase of bombardments of the Capital - with security buildings/goverment buildings as the focus "...


Why is the Ukrainian TV Internet telecoms electricity operative?


----------



## Ali_Baba

World turns its back on Russia: Astonishing moment diplomats WALK OUT as Kremlin minister tells disarmament conference Russia was forced to invade​








Astonishing moment diplomats WALK OUT during Russian minister's speech


Diplomats from countries including UK, U.S. and France stood up and filed out of the room when Sergei Lavrov's pre-recorded video message to the U.N. Human Rights Council began to play.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## jamahir

jhungary said:


> Have you even been to Ukraine?? Like Ever?
> 
> Maybe you should really go out there and see for yourself before you are calling people shill
> 
> It's funny, because staying at home towing line on something you know nothing about is the definition of "Shill"
> 
> LOL



Have you ever been to Iraq ? Libya ? Syria ? Venezuela ? The jungles of Columbia where FARC is based from ? How are you calling @TheNoob a naive person but yourself claim to be all-knowing ? Why are you toeing the American government line ? You have been taken for a ride in your military career.



RescueRanger said:


> Well consider this for a second:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498649984308334604
> Either Ms. Zhang didn't get the memo or there is a lot more to this than meets the eye



Yes, either of those two scenarios.



Trango Towers said:


> As I said pixel. Have a nice day. Conversation over



Good day to you too, mein uneducated friend.

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## RescueRanger

51.49868888168633, 31.30083112334836

Latest footage coming out of Chernihiv allegedly as a result of an assault by Belarusian troops. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498623131971428352

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## NA71



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## Wood

RescueRanger said:


> Well consider this for a second:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498649984308334604
> Either Ms. Zhang didn't get the memo or there is a lot more to this than meets the eye


Putin would like to capture Kyiv before the second round of talks. This will allow him to dictate terms more confidently

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## RescueRanger

jamahir said:


> Have you ever been to Iraq ? Libya ? Syria ? Venezuela ? The jungles of Columbia where FARC is based from ? How are you calling @TheNoob a naive person but yourself claim to be all-knowing ? Why are you toeing the American government line ?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, either of those two scenarios.
> 
> 
> 
> Good day to you too, mein uneducated friend.


Watch the video I have shared above, if true, Belarusians have now entered Ukraine, if so where will talks be held? Will talks be held at all?



Wood said:


> Putin would like to capture Kyiv before the second round of talks. This will allow him to dictate terms more confidently


Good analysis.



NA71 said:


> View attachment 819822


Wrong skin colour I'm afraid.

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## dBSPL

very strange and such details support my thesis

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498634962123345923

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## NA71

Now half of the battle is being fought on PDF.

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## LeGenD

Arbiter said:


> What people like you don't seem to understand is how Russia actually is waging this war. We have seen so many wars from USA that we are used to the American way of warfare, which is indiscriminate bombing and destruction of military and civilian infrastructure.
> 
> The fact that internet, mobile services, water, sewage, electricity etc haven't been targeted yet is proof of that. Usually in a war these are destroyed to disrupt communication, create panic and lower the morale. And if Russia wanted to they could easily have done this but so far they haven't. They are deliberately avoiding to destroy as much civilian infrastructure as possible. Now Russia might resort to that if it prolongs too much but so far they haven't. That's a further indication that the advancement they have made are within their planning or at least that they aren't desperate yet to do such kind of destruction.
> 
> Also we haven't seen the Russian airforce much in action. So far they have relied mostly on precision missile strikes. Only now we är seeing more use of the Russian airforce and heavy artillery. And we are on 5th day. Reportedly 150 k are mobilized for Ukraine campaign, out of which 50 000 Russian troops are in Ukraine right now while 100k are at the border still. So the territory under Russian control has been done in five days by roughly 50k troops. But now we are seeing more troops coming in now that big cities have been surrounded and under siege - probably preparing for urban warfare.
> 
> We also see that no advancement have been made to west Ukraine. Anybody that knows the geography and history of Ukraine knows that western part is the most anti russian. So what I believe Russia will do is simply ignore west Ukraine. They will focus on East, south and central. They will probably take the entire coast line and cut of Ukraine from the black sea. They will take the eastern and central part because that's where majority ethnic Russian and Russian speaking live. Also western Ukraine helped Hitler in fight against the USSR.
> 
> So if peace talk don't happen and they don't agree on something then I think western Ukraine will be left alone as a landlocked country.


There are numerous scenes of death and destruction in Ukraine due to ongoing Russian military activity.









Death, Destruction As Russia's Invasion Of Ukraine Enters Day Six


The Russian war in Ukraine has entered a sixth day, with reports that the Russian Army had set up checkpoints on the outskirts of the southern Ukrainian city of Kherson, a huge military convoy was massing outside Kyiv, and claims that Russian forces aim to encircle the port city of Mariupol.




www.rferl.org













What are thermobaric vacuum bombs? Russia accused of using weapon against Ukraine


Russia may be using thermobaric vacuum bombs in a “bunker-busting” role to destroy Ukrainian defensive positions – but the oxygen-fueled devices can also inflict a brutal death on casualties by suc…




nypost.com













In pictures: Destruction and fear as war hits Ukraine


Russian forces have crossed Ukraine's borders, bombing military targets near big cities.



www.bbc.com













In pictures: civilians suffer from Russian invasion of Ukraine


Heartbreaking images from Ukraine as residential areas are targeted by the Russian army




www.euronews.com













In Pictures: Destruction in Ukraine’s Luhansk


More than 500 people have been killed in the contested city, where a shaky ceasefire holds.




www.aljazeera.com













Massive Explosion From Strike On Government Building In Kharkiv Could Be A Preview Of What's To Come (Updated)


Bombarding dense urban areas looks to be a tactic Russia is introducing on a grander scale to its invasion of Ukraine.




www.thedrive.com





_Russia's invasion of Ukraine is now in its sixth day and it appears to be taking a very dark turn. After being repulsed on multiple fronts by the Ukrainian Army, the Russian military appears to have moved to attacking highly urban areas with artillery barrages. At the same time, a massive convoy is creeping towards Kyiv from the north in what can only be assumed to be preparations for an all-out assault on the capital. You can get up to speed by checking out our prior rolling coverage of this conflict here._

Just wait for the war to progress further.

Russian way of warfare is absolutely apparent in Syria:









Syria: Russia’s shameful failure to acknowledge civilian killings


Russian air strikes in Syria have killed hundreds of civilians and caused massive destruction in residential areas, striking homes, a mosque and a busy market, as well as medical facilities, in a pattern of attacks that show evidence of violations of international humanitarian law, said Amnesty...




www.amnesty.org













Russia/Syria: Flurry of Prohibited Weapons Attacks


The Russian-Syrian joint military operation has used internationally banned and other indiscriminate weapons in unlawful attacks on civilians in northwest Syria in recent weeks, Human Rights Watch said today. According to the United Nations, the area is home to three million civilians, at least...




www.hrw.org













Dumb Bombs, Indiscriminate Strikes And Civilian Casualties In Syrian War


DEAR FRIENDS. IF YOU LIKE THIS TYPE OF CONTENT, SUPPORT SOUTHFRONT WORK: PayPal: southfront@internet.ru Donation alerts: https://donationalerts.com/r/southfront Gumroad: https://gumroad.com/southfront Or...




southfront.org













Russia committed war crimes in Syria, finds UN report


The country was also blamed for indiscriminate attacks in civilian areas without ‘a specific military objective’




www.theguardian.com





Russian war excesses in Aleppo (Syria) are well-documented in particular.






_- - - - -_

NATO is equipped with much higher quantity of precision munitions than any contemporary force in the world and can show much restraint in its operations.

Below are some of the recordings of situation in Baghdad in the Shock & Awe phase of the war back in 2003:
















You can clearly see civilian infrastructure working throughout; you can also see vehicles on the roads.

To be fair, NATO also have history of war excesses in urban environments as witnessed in Fallujah (Iraq) in 2014 and Raqqa (Syria) in 2017 respectively - cities which were under control of militants at the time. But NATO allowed civilians to leave these cities before attacking them in force.

- - - - -

My point is that both Russia and NATO are NOT CLEAN when it comes to warfare.

Let us be fair in our criticism.

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## Dexon

Dexon said:


> Russia has $ 570 million foreign currency deposits in US and British banks, 80 percent of which were blocked in the first two days and now stand at 20 percent.
> This war did not seem so bad for Britain and US . they will steal all that money...


my prediction was right...

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## RescueRanger

NA71 said:


> Now half of the battle is being fought on PDF.


Keyboard Commandoes 1st Chairborne Company .

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## jhungary

jamahir said:


> Have you ever been to Iraq ? Libya ? Syria ? Venezuela ? The jungles of Columbia where FARC is based from ? How are you calling @TheNoob a naive person but yourself claim to be all-knowing ? Why are you toeing the American government line ? You have been taken for a ride in your military career.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, either of those two scenarios.
> 
> 
> 
> Good day to you too, mein uneducated friend.


Como eres en venezuela y Columbia, mi papa eres estan en Bogata.

I have been to Iraq and Syria. Have you ever been?

By the way, the Spanish translate to I used to live in Venezuela and Columbia, my father is from Bogota. EDIT I spend 2 years travelling around South America. And my dad was chicano, his ancestry was from Mexico, Columbia and Cuba.

Please do not question something you have no idea what you are talking about.

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## _Nabil_

jamahir said:


> You are in the forum for six years yet you don't know my identities ? Here they are : Muslim, Communist, Human. Now reconfigure your reply to me.


Nice you changed the order of your identity and put Muslim before Communist, good improvement 👍


----------



## RescueRanger

LeGenD said:


> There are numerous scenes of death and destruction in Ukraine due to ongoing Russian military activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Death, Destruction As Russia's Invasion Of Ukraine Enters Day Six
> 
> 
> The Russian war in Ukraine has entered a sixth day, with reports that the Russian Army had set up checkpoints on the outskirts of the southern Ukrainian city of Kherson, a huge military convoy was massing outside Kyiv, and claims that Russian forces aim to encircle the port city of Mariupol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rferl.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are thermobaric vacuum bombs? Russia accused of using weapon against Ukraine
> 
> 
> Russia may be using thermobaric vacuum bombs in a “bunker-busting” role to destroy Ukrainian defensive positions – but the oxygen-fueled devices can also inflict a brutal death on casualties by suc…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nypost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In pictures: Destruction and fear as war hits Ukraine
> 
> 
> Russian forces have crossed Ukraine's borders, bombing military targets near big cities.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In pictures: civilians suffer from Russian invasion of Ukraine
> 
> 
> Heartbreaking images from Ukraine as residential areas are targeted by the Russian army
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.euronews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Pictures: Destruction in Ukraine’s Luhansk
> 
> 
> More than 500 people have been killed in the contested city, where a shaky ceasefire holds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Massive Explosion From Strike On Government Building In Kharkiv Could Be A Preview Of What's To Come (Updated)
> 
> 
> Bombarding dense urban areas looks to be a tactic Russia is introducing on a grander scale to its invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Russia's invasion of Ukraine is now in its sixth day and it appears to be taking a very dark turn. After being repulsed on multiple fronts by the Ukrainian Army, the Russian military appears to have moved to attacking highly urban areas with artillery barrages. At the same time, a massive convoy is creeping towards Kyiv from the north in what can only be assumed to be preparations for an all-out assault on the capital. You can get up to speed by checking out our prior rolling coverage of this conflict here._
> 
> Just wait for the war to progress further.
> 
> Russian way of warfare is absolutely apparent in Syria:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Syria: Russia’s shameful failure to acknowledge civilian killings
> 
> 
> Russian air strikes in Syria have killed hundreds of civilians and caused massive destruction in residential areas, striking homes, a mosque and a busy market, as well as medical facilities, in a pattern of attacks that show evidence of violations of international humanitarian law, said Amnesty...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.amnesty.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia/Syria: Flurry of Prohibited Weapons Attacks
> 
> 
> The Russian-Syrian joint military operation has used internationally banned and other indiscriminate weapons in unlawful attacks on civilians in northwest Syria in recent weeks, Human Rights Watch said today. According to the United Nations, the area is home to three million civilians, at least...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hrw.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dumb Bombs, Indiscriminate Strikes And Civilian Casualties In Syrian War
> 
> 
> DEAR FRIENDS. IF YOU LIKE THIS TYPE OF CONTENT, SUPPORT SOUTHFRONT WORK: PayPal: southfront@internet.ru Donation alerts: https://donationalerts.com/r/southfront Gumroad: https://gumroad.com/southfront Or...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> southfront.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia committed war crimes in Syria, finds UN report
> 
> 
> The country was also blamed for indiscriminate attacks in civilian areas without ‘a specific military objective’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian war excesses in Aleppo (Syria) are well-documented in particular.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _- - - - -_
> 
> NATO is equipped with much higher quantity of precision munitions than any contemporary force and can show much restraint in its operations.
> 
> Below are some of the recordings of situation in Baghdad in the Shock & Awe phase of the war back in 2003:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can clearly see civilian infrastructure working throughout; you can also see vehicles on the roads.
> 
> To be fair, NATO also have history of war excesses in urban environments as witnessed in Fallujah (Iraq) in 2014 and Raqqa (Syria) in 2017 respectively - cities which were under control of militants at the time. But NATO allowed civilians to leave these cities before attacking them in force.
> 
> - - - - -
> 
> My point is that both Russia and NATO are NOT CLEAN when it comes to warfare.
> 
> Let us be fair in our criticism.


Very well said and very balanced view.

*Further air sirens in Kyiv. *

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## dBSPL

The Ukrainian war could cause a major military purge in Russia for a number of reasons.

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## RescueRanger

*Further air sirens in Kyiv.
*
Footage below:
*





Vimeo







vimeo.com




*


----------



## jhungary

@jamahir

Se dice Espanol? Si no habla Espanol, como a tu digame acerca de Americana de Sur?

I will just leave it at that.


----------



## Joe Shearer

jamahir said:


> Are these people preventing only Russian units or Belarus units too ?
> 
> Perhaps Belarus is being readied for another CIA-initiated color revolution. These particular people must not allow themselves to be influenced by Western populist sentiment. They must allow the units to get into Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> Sad. A future doctor for India as well as for others. But I must ask who declared him killed by the Russians ? We have watched vids of Ukranian military and police assaulting Indian students including girls.


An External Affairs Ministry spokesperson.



> One of our building residents sent out this very bitter message:
> 
> Our PM will call Putin to stop the attack till all our studnets gets evacuated, our PM is number one leader in the world. He is waiting for right Muhurat. 🙏🙏💐💐



He was in a bitter mood, and hence was deeply sarcastic.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498651127335866368

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## Joe Shearer

SABRE said:


> Diplorable.
> 
> There has been, at least, one Pakistani casualty from what I have heard. Details are extremely limited.


I mourn him, as I do our boy. 

What a senseless waste.

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## RescueRanger

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498651127335866368








Brb I'm getting my Mr. Handy fired up!


----------



## Joe Shearer

RescueRanger said:


> Well consider this for a second:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498649984308334604
> Either Ms. Zhang didn't get the memo or there is a lot more to this than meets the eye
> 
> 
> That is really sad to hear, my thoughts are with all victims of conflict at this time.


🙏

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## RescueRanger

Joe Shearer said:


> 🙏


Anytime sir, we are all children of one planet.

Everyone around the world needs to cool their jets, sit down with a cool or warm drink and listen to this song, truly just listen...

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Have you even been to Ukraine?? Like Ever?
> 
> Maybe you should really go out there and see for yourself before you are calling people shill
> 
> It's funny, because staying at home towing line on something you know nothing about is the definition of "Shill"
> 
> LOL
> 
> 
> I am not saying you are faking it or anything.
> 
> I am just saying I won't buy anything unless it is official, I was a Military Intelligence Officer, I only believe what I see. I have no Qualm for you get your information from Telegram or so on.



I been to Moscow with my father in early nineties. I was like 5 yrs old. So many concrete buildings. It toook a loooong trip on a K3 train, it felt like an eternity, that I remember the most.

You sell Russians lether jackets, and instant noodles from the train, and make an average urban Chinese monthly salary in less than 1 week. I also remember Lenin's mummy. It scared me for some reason, unlike Mao's.

Eventually Guangzhou far overshoot North China by income, and amount of business, and our family returned to Guangzhou, before moving to UK in 200X.

For the last few years, I worked for a number of Chinese engineering contractors doing business on OBOR. We were misfortunate to pick a rail in Kazakhstan, now trying to recover our money after Kazakhstanis declared a forcemajeure when a civil war started in the country in the South in January. My job, and and a lot more is now staked on my ability to recover as much of company's money out of the venture. We also declared forcemajeure, to no longer have to pay lay locals as HQ finally realised they will never have anything out of this now. Trying to liquidate by selling heavy equipment we leased to dig trenches for cables now to locals. Shame is we leased it from another Chinese co here.

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## Ali_Baba

Wood said:


> Putin would like to capture Kyiv before the second round of talks. This will allow him to dictate terms more confidently



Not going to happen in the next few days - it will require a siege of the city - and that convoy still has a few miles to cover..

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## Joe Shearer

RescueRanger said:


> Anytime sir, we are all children of one planet.
> 
> Everyone around the world needs to cool their jets, sit down with a cool or warm drink and listen to this song, truly just listen...


"At the beginning, we had one father, one mother..."

What is happening to us?

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## Avicenna

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498647625393975298

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## Musings

jhungary said:


> Have you even been to Ukraine?? Like Ever?
> 
> Maybe you should really go out there and see for yourself before you are calling people shill
> 
> It's funny, because staying at home towing line on something you know nothing about is the definition of "Shill"
> 
> LOL
> 
> 
> I am not saying you are faking it or anything.
> 
> I am just saying I won't buy anything unless it is official, I was a Military Intelligence Officer, I only believe what I see. I have no Qualm for you get your information from Telegram or so on.


We have been made aware in every other post about your vast in depth self opinionated experience of Ukraine. You couldn't miss it if you tried.
Respectfully dont attempt to throw a "put down" to anyone misunderstanding the definition when your own English is as poor as it is.
Its a sad worrying and deeply concerning situation in Ukraine - glad that you - as a "professional" can find the time to "lol" on a thread like this?

I really dont see anything in your posts that merits me to respect or show attention to your posts - someone that has to remind us that you was a military officer in every other post - is frankly embarrassing.

You haven't quite grasped the fact that this war is perhaps like no other. One has to be careful in believing what is factual - what is made up and what is frankly dreams of armchair global internet warriors.

The power of twitter Facebook and ticktock etc have clearly made this war a war like no other. Facts become fiction and fiction becomes fact.
The fact this is "killing white blue eyed" people is giving the western world tremendous distress.
The fact that those hoisting Ukraine to their boisterous stance have mysteriously pushed Ukraine into poking the bear has gone beyond the likes of you.
The fact USA can interfere destroy and demolish nations throughout the world - yet when Russia feel threatened by NATO and a neighbor - it is unacceptable? 

Now please stop putting down others and making yourself looked daft. Attempting to throw put downs to the likes of respected think tanks like Rescueranger doesn't make you look intellectual - quite the opposite.

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## OldTwilight

NA71 said:


> View attachment 819822


sad part is the pro western people of our region have same mentality

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## TheNoob

LeGenD said:


> There are numerous scenes of death and destruction in Ukraine due to ongoing Russian military activity.
> 
> 
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> 
> Death, Destruction As Russia's Invasion Of Ukraine Enters Day Six
> 
> 
> The Russian war in Ukraine has entered a sixth day, with reports that the Russian Army had set up checkpoints on the outskirts of the southern Ukrainian city of Kherson, a huge military convoy was massing outside Kyiv, and claims that Russian forces aim to encircle the port city of Mariupol.
> 
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> www.rferl.org
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> What are thermobaric vacuum bombs? Russia accused of using weapon against Ukraine
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> 
> Russia may be using thermobaric vacuum bombs in a “bunker-busting” role to destroy Ukrainian defensive positions – but the oxygen-fueled devices can also inflict a brutal death on casualties by suc…
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> In pictures: Destruction and fear as war hits Ukraine
> 
> 
> Russian forces have crossed Ukraine's borders, bombing military targets near big cities.
> 
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> www.bbc.com
> 
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> 
> In pictures: civilians suffer from Russian invasion of Ukraine
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> 
> Heartbreaking images from Ukraine as residential areas are targeted by the Russian army
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> www.euronews.com
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> In Pictures: Destruction in Ukraine’s Luhansk
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> More than 500 people have been killed in the contested city, where a shaky ceasefire holds.
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> Massive Explosion From Strike On Government Building In Kharkiv Could Be A Preview Of What's To Come (Updated)
> 
> 
> Bombarding dense urban areas looks to be a tactic Russia is introducing on a grander scale to its invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Russia's invasion of Ukraine is now in its sixth day and it appears to be taking a very dark turn. After being repulsed on multiple fronts by the Ukrainian Army, the Russian military appears to have moved to attacking highly urban areas with artillery barrages. At the same time, a massive convoy is creeping towards Kyiv from the north in what can only be assumed to be preparations for an all-out assault on the capital. You can get up to speed by checking out our prior rolling coverage of this conflict here._
> 
> Just wait for the war to progress further.
> 
> Russian way of warfare is absolutely apparent in Syria:
> 
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> 
> Syria: Russia’s shameful failure to acknowledge civilian killings
> 
> 
> Russian air strikes in Syria have killed hundreds of civilians and caused massive destruction in residential areas, striking homes, a mosque and a busy market, as well as medical facilities, in a pattern of attacks that show evidence of violations of international humanitarian law, said Amnesty...
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> Russia/Syria: Flurry of Prohibited Weapons Attacks
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> The Russian-Syrian joint military operation has used internationally banned and other indiscriminate weapons in unlawful attacks on civilians in northwest Syria in recent weeks, Human Rights Watch said today. According to the United Nations, the area is home to three million civilians, at least...
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> Dumb Bombs, Indiscriminate Strikes And Civilian Casualties In Syrian War
> 
> 
> DEAR FRIENDS. IF YOU LIKE THIS TYPE OF CONTENT, SUPPORT SOUTHFRONT WORK: PayPal: southfront@internet.ru Donation alerts: https://donationalerts.com/r/southfront Gumroad: https://gumroad.com/southfront Or...
> 
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> southfront.org
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> Russia committed war crimes in Syria, finds UN report
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> The country was also blamed for indiscriminate attacks in civilian areas without ‘a specific military objective’
> 
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> www.theguardian.com
> 
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> 
> Russian war excesses in Aleppo (Syria) are well-documented in particular.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _- - - - -_
> 
> NATO is equipped with much higher quantity of precision munitions than any contemporary force in the world and can show much restraint in its operations.
> 
> Below are some of the recordings of situation in Baghdad in the Shock & Awe phase of the war back in 2003:
> 
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> 
> You can clearly see civilian infrastructure working throughout; you can also see vehicles on the roads.
> 
> To be fair, NATO also have history of war excesses in urban environments as witnessed in Fallujah (Iraq) in 2014 and Raqqa (Syria) in 2017 respectively - cities which were under control of militants at the time. But NATO allowed civilians to leave these cities before attacking them in force.
> 
> - - - - -
> 
> My point is that both Russia and NATO are NOT CLEAN when it comes to warfare.
> 
> Let us be fair in our criticism.



Even after a decade, 
Your bias never seems to hide itself.  

it's so blatantly obvious. 

It's just weird for your posts to just keep getting positive ratings regardless of any possible substance outside of whatever fed-narrative.


No offense, of course.

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## Genghis khan1

RescueRanger said:


> Keyboard Commandoes 1st Chairborne Company .


My wrist is hurt during the battle. Where do I file the claim.

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## RescueRanger

Paul2 said:


> I been to Moscow with my father in early nineties. I was like 5 yrs old. So many concrete buildings. It toook a loooong trip on a K3 train, it felt like an eternity, that I remember the most.
> 
> You sell Russians lether jackets, and instant from the train, and make an average urban Chinese monthly salary in 1 week. I also remember Lenin's mummy. It scared me for some reason, unlike Mao's.
> 
> Eventually Guangzhou far overshoot North China by income, and amount of business, and our family return GZ, before moving to UK in 200X.
> 
> For the last few years, I worked for a number of Chinese engineering contractors doing business on OBOR. We were misfortunate to pick a rail in Kazakhstan, now trying to recover our money after Kazakhstanis declared a forcemajeure when a civil war started in the country in the South in January. My job, and and a lot more is now staked on my ability to recover as much of company's money out of the venture.


I remember our trip to Russia, Poland and Bulgaria. Beautiful part of the world, but seldom you would think its a land time had forgotten.

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## Dragons

Dexon said:


> Russia has $ 570 million foreign currency deposits in US and British banks, 80 percent of which were blocked in the first two days and now stand at 20 percent.
> This war did not seem so bad for Britain and US . they will steal all that money...



570 million is not much


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## RescueRanger

Genghis khan1 said:


> My wrist is hurt during the battle. Where do I file the claim.


You will need to file Foms 311B, 311A, 104 and 106 in triplicate.


----------



## TheNoob

Avicenna said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498647625393975298
> View attachment 819825



Damn and that beast flew over my head a bunch of times in Karachi as well. 
Now this, Is what I call a major blow to humanity.


----------



## dBSPL

Learning Russian military vehicle use from 'brave Ukranian woman', by Instagram style editing:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498385161158811652

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498332884121399307
So let see what's the real story?

This is a typical example of Ukrainian fake news. The video is over 1 year old. And the girl speaks Russian. However, this video will be shared for a long time on Instagram and similar media for some purposes.

The sympathetic and heroic female figure is a frequently used tactic in war psyops. Although it is understood by wide circles that this news is a lie after a certain period of time, the perception it leaves is permanent. This kind of information bombardment blunts your ability to question after a certain period of time and leads you psychologically.

As a similar example, women are highlighted in visual materials with the PKK terrorist organization. The dominant Muslim female figure in the orientalist culture is a burqa-wearing and ignorant person. They make you believe that women belonging to this terrorist organization are intellectuals and progressives, killing people for freedom.

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## Paul2

RescueRanger said:


> I remember our trip to Russia, Poland and Bulgaria. Beautiful part of the world, but seldom you would think its a land time had forgotten.



Yes, I remember most of the country is wooden sticks, except for Moscow. Very dusty, and frozen in time. Almost like NorKo

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## RescueRanger

Joe Shearer said:


> "At the beginning, we had one father, one mother..."
> 
> What is happening to us?


I know right, as I get older the inner sufi inside me is like "chad yar mitti paa" and I start to look and I mean truly look at the mesmerizing beauty of the human condition. 

There is more that unites us than divides us, I am reminded of the Shelly's Sonet "Ode to Ozymandias"






I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the dessert. 

Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,

The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:

"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings;
*Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"

Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away."*

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## Wood

Ali_Baba said:


> Not going to happen in the next few days - it will require a siege of the city - and that convoy still has a few miles to cover..


We'll see what happens. In the absence of NATO air support for Ukraine, the Russians will eventually occupy the country. But a successful occupation requires a lack of:

a) sustained resistance from local population
b) International support

Ukraine will have both and therefore I don't see Russia convert the occupation into annexation (even through a puppet gov.).

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## That Guy

Trango Towers said:


> Why is the Ukrainian TV Internet telecoms electricity operative?


You can thank Elon Musk for that. He recently provided Ukraine with a bunch of his starlink receivers to keep Ukraine connected via satellite.

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## TheNoob

jhungary said:


> Have you even been to Ukraine?? Like Ever?
> 
> Maybe you should really go out there and see for yourself before you are calling people shill
> 
> *It's funny, because staying at home towing line on something you know nothing about is the definition of "Shill*"
> 
> LOL



Aren't you doing just that as well?
But then again since you were a intel officer you might as well be doing this professionally.

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## TheNoob

That Guy said:


> You can thank Elon Musk for that. He recently provided Ukraine with a bunch of his starlink receivers to keep Ukraine connected via satellite.



I doubt that little amount is keeping the internet alive. 
The infrastructure is still intact in most cases it seems. 

I don't have doubts given that they've skipped most of the civil infrastructure so far


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498660951100379142

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498661839739174918

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498659831661613060

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## NA71

All PDF Traffic from J-1Oc thread is diverted to Russia Ukraine War thread .....

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## Dragons

The translator for Zelenskyy European union parliament speech breaks down in emtions during translating the speech infront of the European parliament

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## NA71

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498660951100379142
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498661839739174918
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498659831661613060


disinformation swing

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## abrahamova

T-SaGe said:


> Tensions are rising in the east of Europe. It seems that both the Russian forces and Ukrainian forces are mobilized. After the end of the ceasefire, many clashes were recorded in the Donbas region, where separatist Russian militias were located. Due to growing concerns, NATO forces directed many of its platforms to the region.
> 
> The NATO bloc aircrafts constantly patrolling the black sea to support Ukraine and to detect early a possible Russian operation in the direction of Odesa.
> 
> There are largely visible military activities from Romania to Poland. Meanwhile, Russia has raised its military buildup on the Ukrainian border to its highest level since 2014.
> 
> A great storm is approaching, and the worst-case scenario poses such great risks that it can turn into a tragedy for the whole world.
> 
> My wish from the Moderation please make sticky this thread and control it several times a week for a possible troll and spam activities. Let's discuss together the tensest event of 2021 while keeping the thread as clean as possible and not turning it into another troll fest. TY @waz @krash
> 
> Current political map of Territory


this war won't stop.


----------



## RescueRanger

NA71 said:


> All PDF Traffic from J-1Oc thread is diverted to Russia Ukraine War thread .....

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## SIPRA

RescueRanger said:


> Anytime sir, we are all children of one planet.



Easier said, than done:

"Aik deewaar ki doori hae qafas
Taurh saktay, tau chaman main hotay"
(Baqi Siddiqui)

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## Dragons

Here is the speech where the translator breaks down in emotions and starts to tear up crying.. [From today's Zelenskyy speech for the European parliament]






he starts to break down

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## RescueRanger

Dragons said:


> The translator for Zelenskyy European union parliament speech breaks down in emtions during translating the speech infront of the European parliament


Wouldn't anyone when you see your country, the land you love being torn up infront of your eyes and everyone who has the power to put an end to it are saying:

"We believe in you"
"You can do it"
"We support you".... BUT... "We wont send our soldiers, we wont send our aircraft".

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## NA71

dBSPL said:


> Learning Russian military vehicle use from 'brave Ukranian woman', by Instagram style editing:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498385161158811652
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498332884121399307
> So let see what's the real story?
> 
> This is a typical example of Ukrainian fake news. The video is over 1 year old. And the girl speaks Russian. However, this video will be shared for a long time on Instagram and similar media for some purposes.
> 
> The sympathetic and heroic female figure is a frequently used tactic in war psyops. Although it is understood by wide circles that this news is a lie after a certain period of time, the perception it leaves is permanent. This kind of information bombardment blunts your ability to question after a certain period of time and leads you psychologically.
> 
> As a similar example, women are highlighted in visual materials with the PKK terrorist organization. The dominant Muslim female figure in the orientalist culture is a burqa-wearing and ignorant person. They make you believe that women belonging to this terrorist organization are intellectuals and progressives, killing people for freedom.



Indian media experts now assisting Ukrainians ...we might hear Russian SU-35 shot down near Keiv and pilot WC *Shahaz ud Din Alinov *captured.

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## RescueRanger

SIPRA said:


> Easier said, than done:
> 
> "Aik deewaar ki doori hae qafas
> Taurh saktay, tau chaman main hotay"
> (Baqi Siddiqui)


I see you are fellow traveler of the path. 👍👏

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> I been to Moscow with my father in early nineties. I was like 5 yrs old. So many concrete buildings. It toook a loooong trip on a K3 train, it felt like an eternity, that I remember the most.
> 
> You sell Russians lether jackets, and instant noodles from the train, and make an average urban Chinese monthly salary in less than 1 week. I also remember Lenin's mummy. It scared me for some reason, unlike Mao's.
> 
> Eventually Guangzhou far overshoot North China by income, and amount of business, and our family returned to Guangzhou, before moving to UK in 200X.
> 
> For the last few years, I worked for a number of Chinese engineering contractors doing business on OBOR. We were misfortunate to pick a rail in Kazakhstan, now trying to recover our money after Kazakhstanis declared a forcemajeure when a civil war started in the country in the South in January. My job, and and a lot more is now staked on my ability to recover as much of company's money out of the venture. We also declared forcemajeure, to no longer have to pay lay locals as HQ finally realised they will never have anything out of this now. Trying to liquidate by selling heavy equipment we leased to dig trenches for cables now to locals. Shame is we leased it from another Chinese co here.


I remember going to Russia by Heilonggong in the 90s, they sell stuff like fur boots coats and booze and then we go over the Chinese-Russia border, and boarded the train to St. Petersburg on a family vacation. 

I don't remember much, except the cathedral and the and the skiiing

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## Ali_Baba

NA71 said:


> All PDF Traffic from J-1Oc thread is diverted to Russia Ukraine War thread .....



I am amazed the site is still up considering how much traffic it is generating with views/comments etc. Wonder what the traffic in GB/day(+other stats ) is currently compared to normal. Admins doing a good job of keeping it up imho ...

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## NA71

Dragons said:


> Here is the speech where the translator breaks down in emotions and starts to tear up crying.. [From today's Zelenskyy speech for the European parliament]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Around 0:50 he starts to break down


Chutto pehelwan ....

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## Pappa Alpha

Amarullah Saleh 2.0, new and improved. Doesn't run away immediately.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498660070791516162

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498664527759556608

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498625113260011520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498664904357781513


----------



## Paul2

End of the day 1st March.

Russians used talks yesterday to for a very large staging in North, and the South.

Kiyv:

The humongous convoy West of Kiyv broke out of woods, and small towns, and is now spreading out into open areas. Ukrainians seems to have ran out of airforce, and heavy weapons to thrown on it.

The single 300mm MLRS they had which took out 3 convoys in 3 salvos over last few days seems to have either been either taken out, or ran out of ammo. Russians are seemingly in no hurry to besiege the city now, going much slower, and taking positions.

Belo forces joining in from the Eastern direction.

Sumy:

The small town which tackled multiple BTGs seems to have been breached after massive rocket strike on intel. That's the downside of defending small towns without concrete buildings. The few concrete buildings are becoming natural targets.

Karkiv:

Shellings, urban battles. Still holding. Got first supplies of NLAWs. Not much armour in action, but infantry.

South:

The limits of mobile defences which held off Russians seems to be reached. That Russian staging area for offence to the East was attacked a few times, but now a much more massive formation did not rout, or back off, and moved on Maripol.

Khesan offsensive is smaller, back, and forth now.

In overall, bigger, slower Russian formation don't suffer from harassment of small mobile forces as much as smaller groups they sent before. I seen no news of completely abandoned convoys in the South.


It seems 28th was the last day for Ukrainians to keep the initiative, but they did not chose to further harass Russian staging areas, and prepared for defence instead. That was a mistake IMHO. They should've thrown everything to hamper Russian regroup, while buying time for getting more territorials prepared.

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## LeGenD

Darius77 said:


> The Ukrainians are telling so many lies that Baghdad Bob is writhing in his grave. I have been fact checking the Ukrainian claims and 95% are total lies. Russian figures are more rare but accurate.
> 
> Major _General Igor_ Yevgenyevich Konashenkov is the chief _spokesman_ for the Ministry of Defence of the _Russian_ Federation. He has served in the _Russian_ Aerospace Defence units in Syria and is respected for his professional briefings and veracity.


Russians lie and conduct a great deal of propaganda as well - you just don't see it.

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## NA71

Russians are clearly increasing the war momentum ....



LeGenD said:


> Russians lie and conduct a great deal of propaganda as well - you just don't see it.



Both sides...its a part of game.

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## SIPRA

RescueRanger said:


> I see you are fellow traveler of the path. 👍👏



Of course. We, the human beings, are bent upon destructing each other; but in the end, we destruct ourselves:

"*Waris Shah*, aiss khawab saraaye andar, kayi waajarhay gaye waja Mian"
(Heer Waris Shah)

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## jhungary

Musings said:


> We have been made aware in every other post about your vast in depth self opinionated experience of Ukraine. You couldn't miss it if you tried.
> Respectfully dont attempt to throw a "put down" to anyone misunderstanding the definition when your own English is as poor as it is.
> Its a sad worrying and deeply concerning situation in Ukraine - glad that you - as a "professional" can find the time to "lol" on a thread like this?
> 
> I really dont see anything in your posts that merits me to respect or show attention to your posts - someone that has to remind us that you was a military officer in every other post - is frankly embarrassing.
> 
> You haven't quite grasped the fact that this war is perhaps like no other. One has to be careful in believing what is factual - what is made up and what is frankly dreams of armchair global internet warriors.
> 
> The power of twitter Facebook and ticktock etc have clearly made this war a war like no other. Facts become fiction and fiction becomes fact.
> The fact this is "killing white blue eyed" people is giving the western world tremendous distress.
> The fact that those hoisting Ukraine to their boisterous stance have mysteriously pushed Ukraine into poking the bear has gone beyond the likes of you.
> The fact USA can interfere destroy and demolish nations throughout the world - yet when Russia feel threatened by NATO and a neighbor - it is unacceptable?
> 
> Now please stop putting down others and making yourself looked daft. Attempting to throw put downs to the likes of respected think tanks like Rescueranger doesn't make you look intellectual - quite the opposite.


First of all, I don't really care about what you think of me, this is how I wrote my stuff, with or WITHOUT that title that comes below my username, I would write the same thing, I did not ask for this title, I would not care less about this title. someone high (assume they are, well, they can maneuverer the forum format to hand me this title) gave me that title, whether or not I deserve it, you need to ask whoever gave me that title, not me .

I am proud of serving my country, which is US by the way, I don't see what's wrong with that, I have a US flag and an US Army Flag I raise everyday, and I look at the US Flag when I go to bed, I recite the pledge of allegiance everyday I wake up, do you think anything is wrong with that? And I don't every-so-often tell you my background and history.

And just because I am a military man and I can use the shorthand "LOL" REALLY?

As I said MANY, MANY, MANY time, don't EVER judge a man's word on how they say, but what they say, have you ever wonder why I say stuff like that? Have you even see what was I replying to? I mean, if you want to discuss serious matter, I can discuss that with you, but otherwise if you are going to accuse me of something, like in this case, the man I reply to accuse me as a shill, WHY would I have to be serious with him??

As for this war. There are a lot of thing you don't know about this war, and there are a lot of thing I do not know about this war, but judging from the fact that I have seen war and participating in two, and I know the geography and have numerous friend who live in Ukraine, and my own experience living there, I would willing to bet all the money I had in my pocket (around $35) that I know more than you.

Now, if you want to be passive-aggressive, I will be passive-aggressive with you. if you want to honestly discuss issue, I will, but you have to choose. It can only be one way and not the other.

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## hussain0216

NA71 said:


> All PDF Traffic from J-1Oc thread is diverted to Russia Ukraine War thread .....



Ahh yeah, we are supposed to get multiple Jets this month

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## jhungary

TheNoob said:


> Aren't you doing just that as well?
> But then again since you were a intel officer you might as well be doing this professionally.


Well, at least I were there, were you?

That's the different.


----------



## Taimoor Khan

For those Pakistani who are still confused. 

American eagle has been flying high with overgrown wings and talons. It is in need of clipping. The process started a while back in Afghanistan and this is another step towards it. Not saying that it needs to be killed, but it certainly needs to brought back to same level and fly among other eagles. 

A balanced world order is the need of the hour. So when they talk about "rule based order", they are just simply trying to preserve their hegemony, screw them. 

Its not about who is right or wrong, for Pakistan is about helping towards achieving that balanced world order, which since 9/11, has been catastrophically tilted towards America and its minions.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498663349747388422

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## White privilege

Are the Russians going to do a _Market Garden _against Kyiv now??


----------



## jamahir

jhungary said:


> But then can you name me one "Neo Nazi" influence beside Azov Battalion? You do know that Azov Battalion is a small Military Unit (about 400 men) in Ukrainian National Guard. I mean they aren't even big as a miltiary unit, let alone have any real meaningful effect on the government as a whole.



Please stop making excuses for the Nazi-collaborating Ukraine government. Do you think Azov people are not distributed in the official military units other than the Ukranian National Guard ? Do you think the non-Azov Nazis are not embedded in the government ? Yesterday a member posted quite a few vids in this thread about Nazi activism in Ukraine. Search for @That Guy's post where he was denying that Nazis existed in Zelensky's ranks and then a Pakistani member posted those vids for him and I posted an article about it too.



jhungary said:


> Como eres en venezuela y Columbia, mi papa eres estan en Bogata.
> 
> I have been to Iraq and Syria. Have you ever been?
> 
> By the way, the Spanish translate to I used to live in Venezuela and Columbia, my father is from Bogota. EDIT I spend 2 years travelling around South America. And my dad was chicano, his ancestry was from Mexico, Columbia and Cuba.
> 
> Please do not question something you have no idea what you are talking about.



As @Musings indicated you are quite arrogant. So if you speak Spanish and have lived in Venezuela you automatically become an activist spreading the revolution of Hugo Chavez ? Are you his supporter or of the NATO-supported Capitalists seeking to regime-change his successor Maduro ? Do you know that Chavez initiated the direct democracy experiment in Venezuela most possibly inspired from the Libyan Jamahiriya's system ?

As for Iraq and Syria what exactly were you doing there, Mister Military Intelligence Officer ?



_Nabil_ said:


> Nice you changed the order of your identity and put Muslim before Communist, good improvement 👍



Well, I put Human last so what do you think ? 




Musings said:


> We have been made aware in every other post about your vast in depth self opinionated experience of Ukraine. You couldn't miss it if you tried.
> Respectfully dont attempt to throw a "put down" to anyone misunderstanding the definition when your own English is as poor as it is.
> Its a sad worrying and deeply concerning situation in Ukraine - glad that you - as a "professional" can find the time to "lol" on a thread like this?
> 
> I really dont see anything in your posts that merits me to respect or show attention to your posts - someone that has to remind us that you was a military officer in every other post - is frankly embarrassing.
> 
> You haven't quite grasped the fact that this war is perhaps like no other. One has to be careful in believing what is factual - what is made up and what is frankly dreams of armchair global internet warriors.
> 
> The power of twitter Facebook and ticktock etc have clearly made this war a war like no other. Facts become fiction and fiction becomes fact.
> The fact this is "killing white blue eyed" people is giving the western world tremendous distress.
> The fact that those hoisting Ukraine to their boisterous stance have mysteriously pushed Ukraine into poking the bear has gone beyond the likes of you.
> The fact USA can interfere destroy and demolish nations throughout the world - yet when Russia feel threatened by NATO and a neighbor - it is unacceptable?
> 
> Now please stop putting down others and making yourself looked daft. Attempting to throw put downs to the likes of respected think tanks like Rescueranger doesn't make you look intellectual - quite the opposite.



Fantastic post !

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## Mujahid Memon

jamahir said:


> You are in the forum for six years yet you don't know my identities ? Here they are : Muslim, Communist, Human. Now reconfigure your reply to me.


How are you a Muslim when you don't believe in God


----------



## Joe Shearer

RescueRanger said:


> I know right, as I get older the inner sufi inside me is like "chad yar mitti paa" and I start to look and I mean truly look at the mesmerizing beauty of the human condition.
> 
> There is more that unites us than divides us, I am reminded of the Shelly's Sonet "Ode to Ozymandias"
> 
> View attachment 819827
> 
> I met a traveller from an antique land
> Who said: "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
> Stand in the dessert.
> 
> Near them, on the sand,
> Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
> And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
> Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
> Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
> 
> The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
> And on the pedestal these words appear:
> 
> "My name is Ozymandias, king of kings;
> *Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
> 
> Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
> Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
> The lone and level sands stretch far away."*


Apt for the occasion. What arrogance we have.

"...whose frown, and wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command..."

It sends a shiver down one's spine.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498626050233933828

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498668552542371840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498668235767566343

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## jamahir

Mujahid Memon said:


> How are you a Muslim when you don't believe in God



Another time. It's been a long day and we on this thread are speaking about humans killing each other because the Western governments won't stop spreading conspiracy since the end of WW2.

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## Trango Towers

Subhash Chandra Bose on TikTok


Reply to @honeyoatscereal This is a anti national #india #indian #desi #hindu #hinduism #pakistan #islam #muslim #bangladesh #ukraine #russia




vm.tiktok.com







That Guy said:


> You can thank Elon Musk for that. He recently provided Ukraine with a bunch of his starlink receivers to keep Ukraine connected via satellite.


U think Russia cannot take them down?
Take out the electricity and all will stop working. Why is the power still on?


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498668235767566343

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498666499770359814


----------



## LeGenD

TheNoob said:


> Even after a decade,
> Your bias never seems to hide itself.
> 
> it's so blatantly obvious.
> 
> It's just weird for your posts to just keep getting positive ratings regardless of any possible substance outside of whatever fed-narrative.
> 
> 
> No offense, of course.


What bias you see in my post? This is ad-hominem, mind you.

I look at all developments objectively and support my statements with data and evidence on hand.

You need to introspect on the other hand.


----------



## jhungary

jamahir said:


> Please stop making excuses for the Nazi-collaborating Ukraine government. Do you think Azov people are not distributed in the official military units other than the Ukranian National Guard ? Do you think the non-Azov Nazis are not embedded in the government ? Yesterday a member posted quite a few vids in this thread about Nazi activism in Ukraine. Search for @That Guy's post where he was denying that Nazis existed in Zelensky's ranks and then a Pakistani member posted those vids for him and I posted an article about it too.
> 
> 
> 
> As @Musings indicated you are quite arrogant. So if you speak Spanish and have lived in Venezuela you automatically become an activist spreading the revolution of Hugo Chavez ? Are you his supporter or of the NATO-supported Capitalists seeking to regime-change his successor Maduro ? Do you know that Chavez initiated the direct democracy experiment in Venezuela most possibly inspired from the Libyan Jamahiriya's system ?
> 
> As for Iraq and Syria what exactly were you doing there, Mister Military Intelligence Officer ?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I put Human last so what do you think ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fantastic post !


Again, tell me 1, just 1 reference to Neo-Nazism except Azov Battalion?

Set aide that the ONLY connection of Azov Battalion are the person who found that (who no longer involved in Azov Battalion by the way) was a neo Nazi. Boo-F'ing-WOO, when your country is at war, you don't get to choose who fight for you And as a matter of fact, Russia Separatist also have their own Neo Nazi Battalion too, so can you say the Russian Rebel are Nazi?

I really admire the nativity you people exhibit, your ability to laser focus on something people told you, and then blindly follow, and then accuse people who have opposing idea of being an agent, saboteur or Nazi. But then that goes into how you handle information.

And yes, I know about Hugo Chavez, I actually met the man, have you? I can tell you everything about El Comandante, but on one condition, I will only discuss with you in Spanish. How about that?

Man I really love people like you shot your big mouth when you have ZERO actual knowledge on something and the only knowledge is for someone to tell you why you need to hate these people. And it got so complicated so fast, you don't even know what you are hating to begin with, and then challenge everyone and tell them they are a shill or being brainwashed.

LOL

Normally I will say if you want to discuss something seriously, I am all ears. You? I don't think I need to, because I would have already know it's BS. You are like me, who like to Bloat about stuff, but unlike me, you don't have any idea what you are talking about, so it's pointless to even listen to you.

lol, Muslim Communist, the Chinese would love to have you back in the 70s, oh, I forgot, you probably never really lived in China.

Chao

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## Joe Shearer

SIPRA said:


> Easier said, than done:
> 
> "Aik deewaar ki doori hae qafas
> Taurh saktay, tau chaman main hotay"
> (Baqi Siddiqui)


Should we not at least try?


----------



## jamahir

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498668235767566343



Who is the heavy fellow who looks like a motorcycle gang Nazi ? I have seen him in another vid yesterday in another place having caught another Buryatia native. This Nazi seems fond of Buryatia people. Or there is something fishy.



jhungary said:


> And yes, I know about Hugo Chavez, I actually met the man, have you? I can tell you everything about El Comandante, but on one condition, I will only discuss with you in Spanish. How about that?



LOL, did Gaddafi speak to Chavez in Spanish ? What kind of condition is that ?






Please speak in English.

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## LeGenD

NA71 said:


> so AN-225 was destroyed by Ukrainians and blaming Russians ...even claiming it will be rebuild on Russians expense....The is is exactly what happens when you led by a comedian


Evidence?


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498666642284425223

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498670343984238594

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498669909261398020

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498671583476518912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498671726581927941

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498671811860512776

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## SIPRA

Joe Shearer said:


> Should we not at least try?



Of course, we shall, in our own limited capacities.


----------



## Zibago

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498651127335866368


Why do they like fighting so much?


----------



## Ali_Baba

Mariupol surrounded and under heavy shelling as electricity cut off


Russian forces have surrounded the southern Ukrainian port city of Mariupol, cut off its electricity supply and bombarded residents with heavy shelling.




www.telegraph.co.uk





UK says evicting Russia from UN Security Council among 'all options'​*The UK government is open to removing Russia as one of the five permanent members of the UN Security Council following the invasion of Ukraine, Prime Minister Boris Johnson's spokesman has said.*
"I think it's something we want to discuss with the UN obviously," the spokesman, who speaks on condition of anonymity, told reporters.
"*There are the mechanisms in place for that which are well established*," he said, adding that Mr Johnson had yet to stake out a position himself on the question.
"What is right to say is that we want to see Russia isolated diplomatically, and we will consider all options to achieve that."
Britain is also one of the five permanent members alongside Russia, the United States, China and France. The five are meant to guarantee international peace and security, but Russia stands accused of trashing the UN rulebook with its offensive on Ukraine.

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## jhungary

jamahir said:


> Who is the heavy fellow who looks like a motorcycle gang Nazi ? I have seen him in another vid yesterday in another place having caught another Buryatia native. There is something fishy.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, did Gaddafi speak to Chavez in Spanish ? What kind of condition is that ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please speak in English.


Everybody know El Comandante, I was in Venezuela when I was 12, my uncle work for Venezuela army, that's how I met him.

And you don't deserve anything I know about him if you have to ask me in English.

At least try to respect the South American culture and learn Spanish, this is what Chavez stand for.

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## dBSPL

INS_Vikramaditya said:


> US to Turkey
> View attachment 819668
> 
> 
> Turkey to US
> View attachment 819669


Can someone translate?


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498672115314315269

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498672553631621128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498672176463032324

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498672908939444267

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## RescueRanger

Ali_Baba said:


> Mariupol surrounded and under heavy shelling as electricity cut off
> 
> 
> Russian forces have surrounded the southern Ukrainian port city of Mariupol, cut off its electricity supply and bombarded residents with heavy shelling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.telegraph.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UK says evicting Russia from UN Security Council among 'all options'​*The UK government is open to removing Russia as one of the five permanent members of the UN Security Council following the invasion of Ukraine, Prime Minister Boris Johnson's spokesman has said.*
> "I think it's something we want to discuss with the UN obviously," the spokesman, who speaks on condition of anonymity, told reporters.
> "*There are the mechanisms in place for that which are well established*," he said, adding that Mr Johnson had yet to stake out a position himself on the question.
> "What is right to say is that we want to see Russia isolated diplomatically, and we will consider all options to achieve that."
> Britain is also one of the five permanent members alongside Russia, the United States, China and France. The five are meant to guarantee international peace and security, but Russia stands accused of trashing the UN rulebook with its offensive on Ukraine.





dBSPL said:


> Can someone translate?


Sure thing brother:

“Who’s side are you on?”
“I’m with you”
“But then why is your finger pointed at them?”
“I’m with you in my heart”

It’s satire 🙂

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## EvoluXon

China warns US over taiwan.

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## Zibago

Taimoor Khan said:


> For those Pakistani who are still confused.
> 
> American eagle has been flying high with overgrown wings and talons. It is in need of clipping. The process started a while back in Afghanistan and this is another step towards it. Not saying that it needs to be killed, but it certainly needs to brought back to same level and fly among other eagles.
> 
> A balanced world order is the need of the hour. So when they talk about "rule based order", they are just simply trying to preserve their hegemony, screw them.
> 
> Its not about who is right or wrong, for Pakistan is about helping towards achieving that balanced world order, which since 9/11, has been catastrophically tilted towards America and its minions.


Its a European conflict just sit back and let things unfold no need to take sides

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## RescueRanger

EvoluXon said:


> China warns US over taiwan.


Wouldn’t it be hilarious if among all this North Korea turns up and is like:

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498619303717142529

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## jamahir

jhungary said:


> Everybody know El Comandante, I was in Venezuela when I was 12, my uncle work for Venezuela army, that's how I met him.
> 
> And you don't deserve anything I know about him if you have to ask me in English.



You said "I can tell you everything about El Comandante" and and now you say "Everybody know El Comandante". You presented yourself as if you were in his revolution i.e. you were a Chavista. I was surprised by that since you also presented yourself to be an American military intelligence officer. Now that is a contradiction. You cannot be a Chavista while also being the American government agent who is trying to regime-change the Venezuelan Bolivarian revolution. So what are you ?

@Musings, what to say about him ?



jhungary said:


> At least try to respect the South American culture and learn Spanish, this is what Chavez stand for.



So there is no difference between Chavez and the CIA-assisted Venezuelan opposition because they both speak Spanish ?

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## Meengla

Musings said:


> The power of twitter Facebook and ticktock etc have clearly made this war a war like no other. Facts become fiction and fiction becomes fact.



Well, we don't have to go far back to see how wrong the 'news' outlets and social media could be: Look at what happened in Afghanistan in August 2021 alone?! There was so much misinformation, mostly created by Indians, about the events but not only Kabul fell without firing a shot--probably a first in modern human history for a city of that size--but also the Panjshir Lion vanished.
We all know that any non-Western party in any conflict--whether the Chinese or the Russians or the Islamic World or the Venezuelans--are extremely lagging in the social media and news outlets. But, like what the Taliban did, *what happens on the ground holds and sometimes holds on for decades.* Who really knows what's happening in Ukraine right now, given such a lopsided war waged using the keyboards?? But if we are in this forum to find the truth then we must approach this war with open minds--otherwise this forum would be another CNN or Fox News... And we can do better than them, can't we??!!

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## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498619303717142529


I’ve been tuned into their day frequency 4705Khz and it’s pretty dead. Would like to know if they have a night frequency I can tune into and put an audio capture on for the lols 😂


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498674950839885831How many remember when the British media turned into a battlefield for a few thousand Muslim refugees?





Forgotten lives... Their crime is being Muslim.

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## LeGenD

NA71 said:


> View attachment 819844











Bogus Tweet Spreads False Account of 'First American Casualty' in Ukraine - FactCheck.org


“Bernie Gores” was not killed in Afghanistan in August, and he wasn’t the “first American casualty of the Ukraine crisis.” He doesn’t exist. But Facebook users were faked out by fabricated tweets that purport to show CNN announcing the death of the same man twice in six months. The photo of...




www.factcheck.org





Do not post photos like that here - lot of fabricated photos circulating on Twitter. 

Post information with link(s) next time.

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## ameer219

The amount of keyboard warriors and chest thumping on this thread is extremely disappointing. Whether it comes from the Military Professionals to Senior members, most of you have been disappointing. It makes Reddit much more professional than this forum. Really everyone here needs to put away their ego and not resort to mud slinging. Discussion should be done in a more relaxed manner.

My take on this? Russia is going to survive regardless of the sanctions imposed. They may take Ukraine up to the Dniper River. Its going to be a costly invasion but somehow feel they will make it through even if an insurgency props up.

For Pakistan, its a huge lesson. Never give up on our nuclear weapons. Never expect anyone to fight our wars ( Even China). Never ever take National Security for granted. Never expect any country to support us on Kashmir. Keep our heads down, work on our economy. Then work from there to strengthen our deterence and diplomacy.

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## NA71

Russians and Ukrainians are now relying on PDF "Russian Ukraine War" thread for latest updates



LeGenD said:


> Bogus Tweet Spreads False Account of 'First American Casualty' in Ukraine - FactCheck.org
> 
> 
> “Bernie Gores” was not killed in Afghanistan in August, and he wasn’t the “first American casualty of the Ukraine crisis.” He doesn’t exist. But Facebook users were faked out by fabricated tweets that purport to show CNN announcing the death of the same man twice in six months. The photo of...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.factcheck.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do not post photos like that here - lot of fabricated photos circulating on Twitter.
> 
> Post information with link(s) next time.


 OK Boss

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498674950839885831How many remember when the British media turned into a battlefield for a few thousand Muslim refugees?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Forgotten lives... Their crime is being Muslim.


Wrong skins colour!

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## jhungary

jamahir said:


> You said "I can tell you everything about El Comandante" and and now you say "Everybody know El Comandante". You presented yourself as if you were in his revolution i.e. you were a Chavista. I was surprised by that since you also presented yourself to be an American military intelligence officer. Now that is a contradiction. You cannot be a Chavista while also being the American government agent who is trying to regime-change the Venezuelan Bolivarian revolution. So what are you ?
> 
> @Musings, what to say about him ?
> 
> 
> 
> So there is no difference between Chavez and the CIA-assisted Venezuelan opposition because they both speak Spanish ?


I am saying you need to respect South American tradition if you want to learn things about Chavez, telling me to tell you stuff that I know about him in English is like you want Obama Bin Laden to speak to you in English, the laungage he hated.

You have no idea what Hugo Chavez stand for aren't you LOL

No es tu madre en la casa blanca jajaja

Que Saberle Chavista? Bonchitta? Jajaja


----------



## That Guy

jamahir said:


> Search for @That Guy's post where he was denying that Nazis existed in Zelensky's ranks and then a Pakistani member posted those vids for him and I posted an article about it too.


This is a lie, you are lying. I said no such thing.

All you've been doing is posting propaganda, lying about other people, and labelling anyone who challenges your views as arrogant.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498676125786116099

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498676359790575619

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498677171392552960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498677507247255556

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498677383460802560

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## dBSPL

RescueRanger said:


> Wrong skins colour!



They were all European.

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## RescueRanger

ameer219 said:


> The amount of keyboard warriors and chest thumping on this thread is extremely disappointing. Whether it comes from the Military Professionals to Senior members, most of you have been disappointing. It makes Reddit much more professional than this forum. Really everyone here needs to put away their ego and not resort to mud slinging. Discussion should be done in a more relaxed manner.
> 
> My take on this? Russia is going to survive regardless of the sanctions imposed. They may take Ukraine up to the Dniper River. Its going to be a costly invasion but somehow feel they will make it through even if an insurgency props up.
> 
> For Pakistan, its a huge lesson. Never give up on our nuclear weapons. Never expect anyone to fight our wars ( Even China). Never ever take National Security for granted. Never expect any country to support us on Kashmir. Keep our heads down, work on our economy. Then work from there to strengthen our deterence and diplomacy.


Very good post, please post more. 🙂👍



dBSPL said:


> They were all European.


I know and that’s what’s tragic about all this.


----------



## NA71

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498676125786116099
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498676359790575619
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498677171392552960
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498677507247255556
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498677383460802560


How these equipment getting through? long war will deplete Russians resources...

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## ameer219

RescueRanger said:


> Very good post, please post more. 🙂👍
> 
> 
> I know and that’s what’s tragic about all this.



Thank you.Insha'allah I will. More of a reader than a poster, but I will try. May I know what are your views on this invasion?

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## Khanate

*FACT CHECK: **Poland says it will not send jets to Ukraine,* *Polish President Andrzej Duda*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498650789295931399

*Fake news*:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498517263309225984

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498621469357662212

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498678625964597257

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498679681880625159

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## dBSPL

Looking at the latest footages, it is seen that many civilian settlements have been destroyed.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498675305153761287Russia is increasing the dimensions of the destruction, just like in Syria. However, Russia should know that while no European cares about Syria, it will not show the same indifference to Ukraine.

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## RescueRanger

ameer219 said:


> Thank you.Insha'allah I will. More of a reader than a poster, but I will try. May I know what are your views on this invasion?


I want peace to prevail. This situation has gotten well out of hand.

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## NA71

ameer219 said:


> The amount of keyboard warriors and chest thumping on this thread is extremely disappointing. Whether it comes from the Military Professionals to Senior members, most of you have been disappointing. It makes Reddit much more professional than this forum. Really everyone here needs to put away their ego and not resort to mud slinging. Discussion should be done in a more relaxed manner.
> 
> My take on this? Russia is going to survive regardless of the sanctions imposed. They may take Ukraine up to the Dniper River. Its going to be a costly invasion but somehow feel they will make it through even if an insurgency props up.
> 
> For Pakistan, its a huge lesson. Never give up on our nuclear weapons. Never expect anyone to fight our wars ( Even China). Never ever take National Security for granted. Never expect any country to support us on Kashmir. Keep our heads down, work on our economy. Then work from there to strengthen our deterence and diplomacy.


The Best Post of this thread....Yes no one fights for others....

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## sur

Dragons said:


> Here is the speech where the translator breaks down in emotions and starts to tear up crying.. [From today's Zelenskyy speech for the European parliament]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> he starts to break down


My suspicion that *Freedom Square missile attack was a false flag* is strengthened now after Zelensky's speech before EU.

How evil of these Zelensky-&-cronies, if true.

*Zelensky knew he was going to make a pitch before EU the very next day*, and *attacked his own people, again*. Just to generate sympathies.

This criminal Zelensky's whole focus in his speech was on Freedom Square. He kept repeating same thing trying to rub it into EU's face.
Attacked his own building just the day before his speech before EU.
Choose to attack an irrelevant *building's grass lawn*, and hurt people in *adjoining* *parking lot*.
This criminal *Zelensky admitted that this is a pro-Russian city* (*Russia won't send cruise missiles to a pro-Russian city, only Zelensky would*).
Selected the name "_Freedom_" for the target, then tried to rhyme his speech around it. Mentioning Freedom sq @ 4-5 times / minute.
Sorry but the *translator breaking down was fakery*, poor acting skills.

These are hallmarks of a false flag.



That Guy said:


> *Lmao*, this is hilarious. The amount of propaganda people eat is funny.



OK. You don't have to laugh your *** off though. Keep it together please.

Below is another propaganda (according to your reading of things) that I ate yesterday. I don't want you to be laughing your *** off again, so watch calmly please:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498530974388264960


On the other hand, you don't eat any propaganda looks like:


That Guy said:


> You can* thank Elon Musk for that*. He recently provided Ukraine with a bunch of his starlink receivers to keep Ukraine connected via satellite.





That Guy said:


> True, but it probably helped, as the infrastructure was getting damaged and connectivity was slowly going down. It seems to have stabilized, *probably tanks to starlink*.


When was that announcement made, 3-4 days ago?
Delivery time for Starlink in non-war areas is upto 2 weeks.
Yeah, right, thanks to Elon Musk internet is alive in Ukraine. Not because Russians didn't attempt to damage such infrastructure *like that guy who lives in Kiev said* @1:05+ below:









And then this on top of it:



> For any Ukrainians to make use of Starlink, they have to get their hands on one of these Starlink terminals, which are made by SpaceX. (For regular customers, a* Starlink kit costs $499*, and the service is $99 a month.) SpaceX did not respond to questions about the number of active terminals in Ukraine right now, or how many terminals the company plans to send to the country.
> 
> These terminals must be within several hundred miles of ground stations that communicate with Starlink satellites before the satellites beam signals down to those dishes. *There are no such stations inside Ukraine*, but there are enough in neighboring countries to “provide service to the whole of Ukraine without issues,” Mike Puchol, the chief technology officer at an internet start-up who also runs a tracker of Starlink coverage, told me.
> 
> If and when Ukrainians can get connected, there’s also the matter of the service’s quality. Starlink, according to SpaceX’s website, requires a clear view of the sky to maintain a direct line of sight between the terminal and satellites passing overhead. Last spring, when the product was still in its beta-test phase, some users found that trees on the horizon, sometimes even a single tree, could disrupt the signal. Some user reports suggest service has improved since then, but disruptions can still occur. “If a few trees can block your Starlink connection, I’m pretty sure Russia or China or another state actor can,” Weeden said.
> 
> 
> Even if Starlink worked perfectly, the use of satellite technology can be risky in wartime, John Scott-Railton,* a senior researcher at the University of Toronto’s Citizen Lab, told me. Transmissions between ground receivers and satellites can become beacons for air strikes.* “None of this is new,” Scott-Railton said. “The only new thing is Starlink, which has never really been tested in a context of battle.”

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## jamahir

That Guy said:


> This is a lie, you are lying. I said no such thing.



From this post :


> Also, I still can't believe people are calling Zelensky a nazi. Talk about eating Russian propaganda.



And then I corrected you here and @Clutch corrected you here.



jhungary said:


> I am saying you need to respect South American tradition if you want to learn things about Chavez, telling me to tell you stuff that I know about him in English is like you want Obama Bin Laden to speak to you in English, the laungage he hated.
> 
> You have no idea what Hugo Chavez stand for aren't you LOL
> 
> No es tu madre en la casa blanca jajaja
> 
> Que Saberle Chavista? Bonchitta? Jajaja



That's illogical. So an African or Indian peasant fed up of oppression by the local feudal or the king had to learn Arabic to know of the political and socio-economic justice-oriented ideology of Islam ? So the same Indian peasant, in Naxalbari region in the 1960s, had to learn Russian to know of the justice and harmony-seeking ideas of Communism ?

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## jhungary

jamahir said:


> You said "I can tell you everything about El Comandante" and and now you say "Everybody know El Comandante". You presented yourself as if you were in his revolution i.e. you were a Chavista. I was surprised by that since you also presented yourself to be an American military intelligence officer. Now that is a contradiction. You cannot be a Chavista while also being the American government agent who is trying to regime-change the Venezuelan Bolivarian revolution. So what are you ?
> 
> @Musings, what to say about him ?
> 
> 
> 
> So there is no difference between Chavez and the CIA-assisted Venezuelan opposition because they both speak Spanish ?


Face it, you know nothing about Venezuela and Hugo Chavez and you pretend you know what he is standing for

And you either have a mind that can't process information that you have no idea what it is about, yet you use term like Chavista or Bolivarian Revolution. as if you know, no, scratch that, you ARE in those movement.

The movement is not about socialism, the movement is about South American identity, a lot of people who oppose socialism still appreciated what Hugo Chavez or Che stand for, as much as I have no love about Trump and I do understand what US President Stand for, just because he is not what I vote for does not make me opposite the office of US president, but as the old saying goes, if you have to ask, you don't belong here. But then you are even worse, you know shit, but you pretend you do and you refused to ask.

And as I said, this is all I am going to say, don't speak of Hugo Chavez like you know the man. I will not be replying to you anymore, there are no need, because this tell me you know nothing about stuff other than what you want to believe, and that is for me one giant pile of Bullshit.

You have a good night.

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## That Guy

TheNoob said:


> I doubt that little amount is keeping the internet alive.
> The infrastructure is still intact in most cases it seems.
> 
> I don't have doubts given that they've skipped most of the civil infrastructure so far


True, but it probably helped, as the infrastructure was getting damaged and connectivity was slowly going down. It seems to have stabilized, probably tanks to starlink.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

jamahir said:


> So this gentleman will not denounce NATO's imperialism in Eastern Europe and in his own Africa ? Until 1969 Libya had one of the biggest American military bases in the world and Gaddafi and comrades kicked that out. Gaddafi gone in 2011 and American imperialism in Africa is back.
> 
> The gentleman should look back at another great African leader, Kwame Nkrumah, who was of leftist persuasion and would have perhaps looked at the speaking gentleman's legitimization of NATO's POV with amusement.



Kenya is a puppet state for UK and the West. Wherever direction that Queen Elizabath wants them to go, they would abide by it. Zelensky is a puppet of the West. Kenyan leaders are puppets. So puppets go hand in hand.

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## nang2

sur said:


> My suspicion that *Freedom Square missile attack was a false flag* is strengthened now after Zelensky's speech before EU.
> 
> How evil of these Ukrainians.
> 
> Zelensky knew he was going to make a pitch before EU and killed his own people, again. Just to generate sympathies.
> 
> This criminal's whole focus in his speech was on Freedom Square. He kept repeating same thing trying to rub it into EU's face.
> Attacked his own building just the day before his speech before EU.
> Choose to attack an irrelevant *building's grass lawn*, and hurt people in *adjoining* *parking lot*.
> This criminal (Zelensky) admitted that this is a pro-Russian city (*Russia won't send cruise missiles to a pro-Russian city*).
> Selected the name "_Freedom_" for the target, then tried to rhyme his speech around it. Mentioning Freedom sq @ 4-5 times / minute.
> Sorry but the *translator breaking down was fakery*, poor acting skills.
> 
> These are hallmarks of a false flag.


Deception is one of the primary tactics in a war.

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## That Guy

jamahir said:


> From this post :
> 
> 
> And then I corrected you here and @Clutch corrected you here.


Read what you wrote, and what I wrote, and realize just how much of a dishonest arrogant person you are. What I wrote and what you claim I said are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS! ALSO, I ADDRESSED THE AZOV BATTALION ISSUE ALREADY!!


----------



## Wood

I wonder if Putin calculated that the invasion will come down to this level of street fighting and destruction of civilian infrastructure before the start. International attention aside, he now has a big problem even if his military objectives are met. Does he really expect people to forget the destruction and then learn to support whatever puppet gov. he tries to install?!

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## ameer219

RescueRanger said:


> I want peace to prevail. This situation has gotten well out of hand.


I wish for peace too. But it has been long coming since Crimean Invasion in 2014. Both sides are no angels. But I am slightly tilted towards Russia on this due to NATO's continous expansion from the start. It was only a matter of time before the big bear wakes up.

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## Dragons

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498681175984025613


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498593663789813765

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498681486257577993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498682057119215618


----------



## Paul2

@jhungary 

I think facts from first days are solid enough to asses what Ukrainians did wrong militarily. Will you be glad to join in?

No early mobilisation despite Americans keeping nailing them about it.
Territorials only managed to form in Kiyv, West Ukraine. C&C broke down in other places, and where else they did manage to do anything it was like "weapons dumped on the ground, grab one if you want."
Some of the military did get advanced warning, like aviation which went to road basic 1 hours before the attack, but for regular solders, and low-tier officers it was a shock, thus little preparedness, especially in the south.
Own shambolic logistics problems. NLAWs from Kiyv arsenal being late to Karkiv by 5 days. Convoys sent in first days of the war to form territorials in the South, and Karkiv didn't reach before Russian encirclement.
Lack of use of reserves from deep withing the country to initiate own new offensives.
They moved too much resources deep into Kiyv, and doing nothing, while the small detached forces were already proving very good at destroying Russians in the surrounding countryside.
Heavy weapons, artillery, MLRS moved to frontlines too late, and too little ammo despite them knowing that they will have to absorb thousands of units of armour.
Precision weapons started lose oomph when Russians started simply pushing convoys with 100+ pieces of armour. Barakar will takeout 4 vehicles, but can't really break it because they have redundancy for ammo, fuel, and C&C.
Raw firepower being disregarded, as stated above.
Not rebasing their C&C, and intel centres in their majority despite knowing that Russians have had them marked.
Not utilising NATO intel (if they really had it) to their fullest. There were many instances where OSInt brought to the public eye extremely valuable sitting duck targets which should've been traded for few remaining planes Ukraine had, like field logistics bases, parked helis, spotted comms units.
Spent its tactical missiles on Russian airfields, when it was already clear that Russians are afraid to fly above Ukraine.
Failed multiple times to retake the initiative in chokepoints after 27th, especially around Kiyv, when they had an opportunity to push the right to Chernobyl, which would've been the mother of all chokepoints.
More or less the same in the South, but this more or less stems from low number of forces there.
28th was they last day they had the initiative, and they conceded it by switching on defensive too prematurely, while knowing that the enemy is staging, and regrouping

But this all pales to one big elephant in the room:

The worst mistake Ukrainians made was to elect a pacifist.

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## jhungary

Wood said:


> I wonder if Putin calculated that the invasion will come down to this level of street fighting and destruction of civilian infrastructure before the start. International attention aside, he now has a big problem even if his military objectives are met. Does he really expect people to forget the destruction and then learn to support whatever puppet gov. he tries to install?!


That's why he has to take Kyiv, unless he destroyed the previous government, he cannot elect a puppet regime. Because Ukrainian will call him Bullshit. (Even if he toppled Ukrainian government, they will still call him bullshit) 

I don't see any other way but an insurgency, and that would work against Russia, the last time they face insurgency, Soviet Union lost 15 client state. And they weren't doing it under sanction.


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## nang2

Wood said:


> I wonder if Putin calculated that the invasion will come down to this level of street fighting and destruction of civilian infrastructure before the start. International attention aside, he now has a big problem even if his military objectives are met. Does he really expect people to forget the destruction and then learn to support whatever puppet gov. he tries to install?!


No plan survives the first contact with the enemy. I forgot who said it.

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## Dragons

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498681100515921924


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## jamahir

jhungary said:


> And you either have a mind that can't process information that you have no idea what it is about, yet you use term like Chavista or Bolivarian Revolution. as if you know, no, scratch that, you ARE in those movement.



Well yes, how nice to be introduced to *you* - our PDF's Chavismo representative.





jhungary said:


> The movement is not about socialism



Yes not even a bit I hear. 



jhungary said:


> And as I said, this is all I am going to say, don't speak of Hugo Chavez like you know the man. I will not be replying to you anymore, there are no need, because this tell me you know nothing about stuff other than what you want to believe, and that is for me one giant pile of Bullshit.
> 
> You have a good night.



You still didn't tell me what you were doing in Iraq and Syria and how possibly you met Saddam and both Assads themselves. But anyway have a good night. 



sur said:


> My suspicion that *Freedom Square missile attack was a false flag* is strengthened now after Zelensky's speech before EU.
> 
> 
> *Zelensky knew he was going to make a pitch before EU the very next day*, and *attacked his own people, again*. Just to generate sympathies.
> 
> This Zelensky's whole focus in his speech was on Freedom Square. He kept repeating same thing trying to rub it into EU's face.
> Attacked his own building just the day before his speech before EU.
> Choose to attack an irrelevant *building's grass lawn*, and hurt people in *adjoining* *parking lot*.
> This Zelensky admitted that this is a pro-Russian city (*Russia won't send cruise missiles to a pro-Russian city*).
> Selected the name "_Freedom_" for the target, then tried to rhyme his speech around it. Mentioning Freedom sq @ 4-5 times / minute.
> Sorry but the *translator breaking down was fakery*, poor acting skills.
> 
> These are hallmarks of a false flag.



Yes, Zelensky is a confirmed liar. We can look at the report of that Snake Island garrison encounter where the 83 Ukrainian navy soldiers defending the place were arrested by the Russians but Zelensky and Western mainstream media made the 83 to have died especially after bravely cursing the Russian warship and then Zelensky used the dead-while-alive soldiers for propaganda.

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## Wergeland 2.0

LeGenD said:


> What bias you see in my post? This is ad-hominem, mind you.
> 
> I look at all developments objectively and support my statements with data and evidence on hand.
> 
> You need to introspect on the other hand.



Bro youre biased.
But its OK to admit it because its virtually impossible to not be. 
We all paint and interpret the world and its events according to our own subjective experience.

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## maverick1977

dBSPL said:


> They were all European.


Bosnian muslims.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498679543430791173

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498682988997054472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498634848973512706

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498635903186649091

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## That Guy

sur said:


> My suspicion that *Freedom Square missile attack was a false flag* is strengthened now after Zelensky's speech before EU.
> 
> 
> *Zelensky knew he was going to make a pitch before EU the very next day*, and *attacked his own people, again*. Just to generate sympathies.
> 
> This Zelensky's whole focus in his speech was on Freedom Square. He kept repeating same thing trying to rub it into EU's face.
> Attacked his own building just the day before his speech before EU.
> Choose to attack an irrelevant *building's grass lawn*, and hurt people in *adjoining* *parking lot*.
> This Zelensky admitted that this is a pro-Russian city (*Russia won't send cruise missiles to a pro-Russian city*).
> Selected the name "_Freedom_" for the target, then tried to rhyme his speech around it. Mentioning Freedom sq @ 4-5 times / minute.
> Sorry but the *translator breaking down was fakery*, poor acting skills.
> 
> These are hallmarks of a false flag.


Lmao, this is hilarious. The amount of propaganda people eat is funny.

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## nang2

That Guy said:


> Lmao, this is hilarious. The amount of propaganda people eat is funny.


Nowadays, everyone needs to take some heavy dose of salt for the news from either side. I just hope folks don't get high blood pressure after all this.

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## Wood

jhungary said:


> That's why he has to take Kyiv, unless he destroyed the previous government, he cannot elect a puppet regime. Because Ukrainian will call him Bullshit. (Even if he toppled Ukrainian government, they will still call him bullshit)
> 
> I don't see any other way but an insurgency, and that would work against Russia, the last time they face insurgency, Soviet Union lost 15 client state. And they weren't doing it under sanction.


Yes, I've not seen the western world more united than it is right now. Russian strategy to use Trump was right on the money. EU and US were politically a divided house under Trump's able leadership. Biden was unable to do anything about it even after assuming office. But Putin has now shot himself in the foot. Almost every European country is ready to fund the insurgency that is to come and the US need not even spend a dime this turn

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## Khanate

ameer219 said:


> For Pakistan, its a huge lesson. Never give up on our nuclear weapons. Never expect anyone to fight our wars ( Even China). Never ever take National Security for granted. Never expect any country to support us on Kashmir. Keep our heads down, work on our economy. Then work from there to strengthen our deterence and diplomacy.




Said it before, there never will be a joint Sino-Pak war on India. This fear-mongering is manufactured by India's establishment to line their pockets in defence deals and control the population.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498685248095375362

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498684983501799425

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498683653500637186

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## beijingwalker

A war which will destroying the whole western world, Europe needs Russia more than Russia needs Europe, US is experiencing the record high inflation now, the writing is on the wall.

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## That Guy

nang2 said:


> Nowadays, everyone needs to take some heavy dose of salt for the news from either side. I just hope folks don't get high blood pressure after all this.


I certainly ain't.

It's a white people war, I'm just glad they aren't killing brown people.

People taking sides here would be amusing, if it weren't for the fact that brown people are once again taking sides in a war that has nothing to do with them.

The chains of mental-slavery are hard to break, it seems.

@SQ8 @LeGenD @RescueRanger

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## dBSPL

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498679543430791173
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498682988997054472
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498634848973512706
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498635903186649091


Bombing civilian buildings and apartments in Ukraine will not produce the same inaction as bombing hospitals and schools in Syria.

Europe and the USA will highlight this attacks unlike any other. No one will find valid the Russian apology that Ukrainian soldiers use civilian settlements as shields.

If you ask me, these types of attacks are exactly what Ukraine wants right now.

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## LeGenD

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> Bro youre biased.
> But its OK to admit it because its virtually impossible to not be.
> We all paint and interpret the world and its events according to our own subjective experience.


In case you missed the chain of this exchange, one member declared me biased for following post: 









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


"At the beginning, we had one father, one mother..." What is happening to us? I know right, as I get older the inner sufi inside me is like "chad yar mitti paa" and I start to look and I mean truly look at the mesmerizing beauty of the human condition. There is more that unites us than...



defence.pk







Everybody is biased to a certain degree but Russian shills are on another level entirely.

For example:






Putin slams West’s ‘empire of lies’


https://www.rt.com/russia/550888-putin-wests-empire-lies/ I agree it. It's the main characteristic of the West, the permanent and constant lie in everything, in each level of public life. Lies in the West reach the level of permanent fantasy believe by millions.



defence.pk





There I said it.

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## _Nabil_

jamahir said:


> Well, I put Human last so what do you think ?


Islam include human behaviour, so it doesn't matter ....

I you want to understand why the same persons anti Islam are now anti Putin

Putin: Insulting Prophet Muhammad is not freedom of expression​
24 DEC 2021
SHARE












During his annual press conference, Putin expressed the importance of artistic freedom without hindrance to religious freedom.




Putin said artistic freedom should not infringe on other freedoms. ( Reuters )
Russian President Vladimir Putin has said insulting Prophet Muhammad does not count as freedom of expression.
Insults to the prophet are a "violation of religious freedom and the violation of the sacred feelings of people who profess Islam,", Putin said on Thursday during his annual news conference, Russian News Agency TASS reported

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## dBSPL

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> I had some sympathy for Ukraine before the war began. But now i really dont care.
> 
> After seeing all that racist superacist bullshit i had enough. I hope Russia crushes every Ukrainian nazi. That stupid annoying and rude UN ambassador is acting like a cry baby. This whole regime smells like a unprofessional bunch more like hooligan gang.
> 
> When. Russia is at it i hope rhey steamroll all the way to Warsaw, just to see the fascist Polish and their disgusting president get a lesson tgey wont forget.


Bro, did this version change comes from the cause of change of mind?

(Apparently you upgraded to 2.0 stable version)


----------



## nang2

dBSPL said:


> Bro, did this version change comes from the cause of change of mind?
> 
> (Apparently you upgraded to 2.0 stable version)


It is well known that the first release is always buggy.


----------



## dBSPL

nang2 said:


> It is well known that the first release is always buggy.


I'm still seeing stability issues, may need a patch.

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## RescueRanger

That Guy said:


> I certainly ain't.
> 
> It's a white people war, I'm just glad they aren't killing brown people.
> 
> People taking sides here would be amusing, if it weren't for the fact that brown people are once again taking sides in a war that has nothing to do with them.
> 
> The chains of mental-slavery are hard to break, it seems.
> 
> @SQ8 @LeGenD @RescueRanger


Very well said 👍. I think people romanticise warfare and death because they are far removed from the threat or spectre of death looming over their own heads.

That and with video games, we’ve created an entire generation that believes they are tactical and strategic military experts.

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## Wergeland 2.0

LeGenD said:


> In case you missed the chain of this exchange, one member declared me biased for following post:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> "At the beginning, we had one father, one mother..." What is happening to us? I know right, as I get older the inner sufi inside me is like "chad yar mitti paa" and I start to look and I mean truly look at the mesmerizing beauty of the human condition. There is more that unites us than...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody is biased to a certain degree but Russian shills are on another level entirely.
> 
> For example:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin slams West’s ‘empire of lies’
> 
> 
> https://www.rt.com/russia/550888-putin-wests-empire-lies/ I agree it. It's the main characteristic of the West, the permanent and constant lie in everything, in each level of public life. Lies in the West reach the level of permanent fantasy believe by millions.
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There I said it.



Assad regime is undemocratic and evil.
That Russia supported assadists who killed many of my fellow innocent brothers and sisters, is something i find utterly immoral. In that regard they are not an inch better than US or UK or France.

I Think youre entitled to your opinion just like eveyone else on this forum. Although youre a mod i dont see why you should not also express your ideas freely.

That being said, to be diplomatic all the time is also quite boring. I mean who the hell wants to become a diplomat. Be passive agressive and never be allowed to express emotions and opinions unfiltered. Certainly not me.

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## Khanate

*War criminal... 🤫*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498612475142438914

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## mshan44

*one of the funniest sanctions on **Russia*

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## R Wing

jaybird said:


> Lesson of the day, don't be a cannon fodder for another country.



Especially the main defender of human rights (who happily funds Israel as it occupies Palestine, has engineered multiple coups across the world to topple democratically-elected governments to install puppet dictators, and sells billions in arms to the regressive monarchic autocracy that is Saudi Arabia)...

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## ameer219

Khanate said:


> Said it before, there never will be a joint Sino-Pak war on India. This fear-mongering is manufactured by India's establishment to line their pockets in defence deals and control the population.



While we can never be sure of a Sino-Pak joint war will ever occur, I rather assume that no such coordination will ever occur. China has been arguably our best ally, and I am very thankful for their help in almost all areas of Pakistan's development. But as these past few days has shown, no one is willing to help the Ukranians militarily despite their pleas. I hope Imran Khan's government and military planners are observing this as closely as possible.

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## R Wing

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> Bro youre biased.
> But its OK to admit it because its virtually impossible to not be.
> We all paint and interpret the world and its events according to our own subjective experience.



Thank you.

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## nang2

Khanate said:


> *War criminal... 🤫*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498612475142438914


That wouldn't be fair for Putin. Both France and Russia pretty much blocked US attempt to get UN authorization to invade Iraq.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498688423267344391

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498689451027058690

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498688688913625092

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498689391992229890

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## Khanate

That Guy said:


> I certainly ain't.
> 
> It's a white people war, I'm just glad they aren't killing brown people.
> 
> People taking sides here would be amusing, if it weren't for the fact that brown people are once again taking sides in a war that has nothing to do with them.
> 
> The chains of mental-slavery are hard to break, it seems.
> 
> @SQ8 @LeGenD @RescueRanger




Sky news is urging brown people to join the European crusade.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498601716907921408

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## Meengla

Washington Post front page right now. Some highlighted parts. 
I think the Russians have regrouped after learning from their initial debacles in this war. And one thing about Russia to note: They are far more likely to sacrifice their soldiers to achieve their objectives than Western countries; such a sad observation. Also, just as we thought a war like this was unthinkable in Europe again, a direct shooting war between Russia and the West is not out of question. I think Putin is in a different frame of mind right now--he can't be seen to have failed. Also, while there is the power of social media, it probably won't change what's being done on the ground. And lest some Pakistanis think otherwise, Pakistan is only one country away from Europe if you count countries to the north/west of Iran as part of Europe. A Balkanization of Russia will be felt to Pakistan eventually; I think the Chechens would want to breakaway in that case.

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## dBSPL

It'll be come my mind every time my sister take my car.

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## tower9

Khanate said:


> Sky news is urging brown people to join the European crusade.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498601716907921408


Good luck with getting on the train.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> @jhungary
> 
> I think facts from first days are solid enough to asses what Ukrainians did wrong militarily. Will you be glad to join in?
> 
> No early mobilisation despite Americans keeping nailing them about it.
> Territorials only managed to form in Kiyv, West Ukraine. C&C broke down in other places, and where else they did manage to do anything it was like "weapons dumped on the ground, grab one if you want."
> Some of the military did get advanced warning, like aviation which went to road basic 1 hours before the attack, but for regular solders, and low-tier officers it was a shock, thus little preparedness, especially in the south.
> Own shambolic logistics problems. NLAWs from Kiyv arsenal being late to Karkiv by 5 days. Convoys sent in first days of the war to form territorials in the South, and Karkiv didn't reach before Russian encirclement.
> Lack of use of reserves from deep withing the country to initiate own new offensives.
> They moved too much resources deep into Kiyv, and doing nothing, while the small detached forces were already proving very good at destroying Russians in the surrounding countryside.
> Heavy weapons, artillery, MLRS moved to frontlines too late, and too little ammo despite them knowing that they will have to absorb thousands of units of armour.
> Precision weapons started lose oomph when Russians started simply pushing convoys with 100+ pieces of armour. Barakar will takeout 4 vehicles, but can't really break it because they have redundancy for ammo, fuel, and C&C.
> Raw firepower being disregarded, as stated above.
> Not rebasing their C&C, and intel centres in their majority despite knowing that Russians have had them marked.
> Not utilising NATO intel (if they really had it) to their fullest. There were many instances where OSInt brought to the public eye extremely valuable sitting duck targets which should've been traded for few remaining planes Ukraine had, like field logistics bases, parked helis, spotted comms units.
> Spent its tactical missiles on Russian airfields, when it was already clear that Russians are afraid to fly above Ukraine.
> Failed multiple times to retake the initiative in chokepoints after 27th, especially around Kiyv, when they had an opportunity to push the right to Chernobyl, which would've been the mother of all chokepoints.
> More or less the same in the South, but this more or less stems from low number of forces there.
> 28th was they last day they had the initiative, and they conceded it by switching on defensive too prematurely, while knowing that the enemy is staging, and regrouping
> 
> But this all pales to one big elephant in the room:
> 
> The worst mistake Ukrainians made was to elect a pacifist.


1.) No Mobilisation on Convoy mostly because the drone and fighter run out of ammo. IT's a 6 days old war, US/EU only resupplying them 2 days ago, it's not surprise the Ukrainian had run out of bombs and missile.

2.) The Eastern State traditionally is not a strong supporter for the Ukrainian central government, also the difficulty to supply weapon to Eastern province. But despite that, unconfirm info suggest Kharkiv have form a 20,000 TDF,

3.) The south is open woodland, they aren't dense urban area like in the North, and the fact that Southern Urban cities (Mariupol and Odessa) has not yet fall means the progress is largely on the outskirt.

4.) Logistic is going to be a problem in the eastern city, as most of them are close to Russia border, making Russian interdiction easier.

5.) TDF are the reserve, they need to withhold regular troop on the West to hold down the West in order to get supplies in.

6.) Well, consider now 75% of the invasion force are mobilised, it will be hard to do hit and run, it would work in the early stage but not when they started to swing the number at you.

7.) At this point artillery are probably used as COUNTBAT, it would be wise to deploy it closer to Kyiv.

8.) At this point, precision strike are not going to be effective, as they started to mass their troop, in case you have not notice, there is a shift of Russian tactics, now they are more align to old Soviet style Armor Column attack, Precision Strike can be use to target Russian C&C and command structure, but nothing else. And even if they do, the sheer number will still dwarf them

9.) As I said before, now it's the traditional siege, they are going to thrust at Ukrainian defence with overwhelming number of Armor, at this point, you should reposition every available support fire to the rear, and absorb the first strike, then use artillery to mess up the second line.

10.) Don't think this is an Ukrainian C&C problem, this is what we called a static phase, basically Russia is going to come at Ukrainian with everything they got, sure, using support asset take out one or two unit here and there, you can do that, but it would not make any different as you are facing a giant head on assault, Tradition NATO playbook is hunker down, let the Amour rolled thru and then attack the infantry that followed with your unit and artillery support.

11.) I think they are now incapable to act on Intel, again, a combination of trying to preserve force and logistic issue..

12.) It wouldn't do much, as I said before, the Russian tried to disable Ukrainian airfield by launching missile on precision strike, we all know how that goes, and Russian have more advance missile.

13.) Well, as I said before, you can only do so much hit and run. once they are adapted to your strategy, you can't really do that anymore. Now it's way pass that, this is now a siege warfare. You need to be able to absorb damage now, which mean for Ukrainian, every unit counts

14.) That's Russian battleplan tho. The Russian south need to take both Dnipro and Mariupol and another Marine landing over at Odessa

15.) Russia changed their tactics since last night, no doubt, If Ukraine was smart, they should start resupplying the Kyiv. They can lose any city, but they can't lose Kyiv. Now this is going to turn into a siege warfare, which mean support, supply and troop have to be concentrated. I don't think there are anything Ukrainian can do but Hunker down and take the onslaught at this point,

Make no mistake, I still stand by my original assessment. Kyiv WILL fall, it's just the matter of time, this is not even a question, but what happened after Kyiv felt is shaping up, I can foresee a complete insurgency, that would ring headache for Russia,

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## Wood

Norway to send weapons to Ukraine, in change of policy


The Norwegian government will send weapons to Ukraine, it said in a statement on Monday, the latest European nation to do so following Russia's invasion.




www.reuters.com

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## tower9

Meengla said:


> Washington Post front page right now. Some highlighted parts.
> I think the Russians have regrouped after learning from their initial debacles in this war. And one thing about Russia to note: They are far more likely to sacrifice their soldiers to achieve their objectives than Western countries; such a sad observation. Also, just as we thought a war like this was unthinkable in Europe again, a direct shooting war between Russia and the West is not out of question. I think Putin is in a different frame of mind right now--he can't be seen to have failed. Also, while there is the power of social media, it probably won't change what's being done on the ground. And lest some Pakistanis think otherwise, Pakistan is only one country away from Europe if you count countries to the north/west of Iran as part of Europe. A Balkanization of Russia will be felt to Pakistan eventually; I think the Chechens would want to breakaway in that case.
> 
> View attachment 819860



I think things are really getting to a dangerous point because I feel like Putin and Russian nationalists feel like they are totally isolated from Europe in a way they have never experienced in their entire history. So many of the hardcore nationalists feel like they have nothing to lose now by fighting to regain influence in their backyard.

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## Jalut

Khanate said:


> Sky news is urging brown people to join the European crusade.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498601716907921408



The nightclub types and perhaps the nightclub was locked due to covid and they had to burn some steem elsewhere


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## RescueRanger

Foreign envoys urge Pakistan to condemn Russian invasion of Ukraine during emergency UNGA session​- https://www.dawn.com/news/1677704

@That Guy @LeGenD @The Eagle @Chak Bamu @PDF @A1Kaid @Irfan Baloch @jaibi @Horus @Signalian @HRK 

Thoughts? Treading water moment!

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498689103617052689

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498690021376802818

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498689673258012678

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498689677129359369

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498476230798155780

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## dBSPL

Western sources: Belarusian leader Lukashenko, "accidentally" revealed Russia's military action plan against Ukraine during his presentation to the security council.

Normally, such publications are made on purpose. However, considering that the subject of the news is Lukashenko, this claim may be true.

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## CrazyZ

mshan44 said:


> *one of the funniest sanctions on **Russia*
> 
> View attachment 819866


There is a formal application process for this?


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## hussain0216

That Guy said:


> I certainly ain't.
> 
> It's a white people war, I'm just glad they aren't killing brown people.
> 
> People taking sides here would be amusing, if it weren't for the fact that brown people are once again taking sides in a war that has nothing to do with them.
> 
> The chains of mental-slavery are hard to break, it seems.
> 
> @SQ8 @LeGenD @RescueRanger



Phul support Saar brigade

You should see some of the Indians on social media, dear lord those people can be cringy

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## Wergeland 2.0

Khanate said:


> Sky news is urging brown people to join the European crusade.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498601716907921408



These are modern day crusaders. 

Putin should declare himself Khalifah and call for jihad al jihad…jk.

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## Taimoor Khan

Zibago said:


> Its a European conflict just sit back and let things unfold no need to take sides




Yes. But I will also understand if Pakistan contribute towards rebalancing the world order.

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## Khanate

No to No Fly Zone... ✈️​Boris Johnson says imposing no-fly zone over Ukraine ‘not on the agenda of any Nato country’​

*Earlier:*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498621118076309506

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## dBSPL

dBSPL said:


> Western sources: Belarusian leader Lukashenko, "accidentally" revealed Russia's military action plan against Ukraine during his presentation to the security council.
> 
> Normally, such publications are made on purpose. However, considering that the subject of the news is Lukashenko, this claim may be true.


video

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498669166957670416

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498627651325603842



Any proof that it belonged to the Russians?

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## Mujahid Memon

dBSPL said:


> Absolutely, we live in a Cursed geography.  Maybe we were not affected as much as Pakistan in the Afghanistan war, but we are among the countries that are most affected in all other wars and war-degree tensions in some way.


That's why a Muslim econo-military alliance is need of the hour, now after this Russo-Ukraine fiasco the need is more than ever

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## Corax

Fascinating reading this thread.

If this isn't a demonstration of the slow death of the Western world, I don't know what is. While Putin's Russia has the West scrambling around for a response, and potentially escalating the conflict to the rest of Europe, China must be thinking about the potential opportunities to pick up the pieces and vacuum left behind. Let the West fight amongst themselves and with Russia, while it galvanises its position and emerges as the new global power, rather like how the US emerged from the ashes of WWII.

Apart from the blatant hypocrisy on show by the West, it demonstrates to all their partner nations that they cannot be trusted. Time and time again they have shown throughout the World they are more than willing to fuel the fires of conflict when it suites them, and use nations to achieve their means.

This is a massive realignment of global strategic tectonic plates, with the World increasingly split again between the 'West', and a new 'Eastern block' comprising Russia, China, Turkey, Pakistan, and perhaps many more to come. A very interesting time in history to be living in, I must say.

Gotta love those Ruskies for throwing a spanner in the works!

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## Khanate

*The Russian Problem... 🤯*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498652078423609348
@Meengla


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## Wergeland 2.0

Wood said:


> Norway to send weapons to Ukraine, in change of policy
> 
> 
> The Norwegian government will send weapons to Ukraine, it said in a statement on Monday, the latest European nation to do so following Russia's invasion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com



Yeah the Norwegian government has been back and forth about sending anything more than humanitarian aid. Most likely daddy America has been pulling some strings from behind.
Probably gonna send some PRG and stuff like that.

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## Lehrasap

Zibago said:


> Its a European conflict just sit back and let things unfold no need to take sides



Well done. 

Europe also then has to sit back and let Israel kick out all the remaining Palestinians from their lands and occupy the whole land, and then EU simply recognize the Israel right to the whole land.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498634962123345923



Any proof that it belonged to the Russians? The EU is big on propaganda.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498691900836093952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498693066647085058

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498694964276039681


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## Khanate

*Iraq war criminal on Ukraine... 😭*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498674420398780417

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498659982769889287

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## Meengla

tower9 said:


> I think things are really getting to a dangerous point because I feel like Putin and Russian nationalists feel like they are totally isolated from Europe in a way they have never experienced in their entire history. So many of the hardcore nationalists feel like they have nothing to lose now by fighting to regain influence in their backyard.



Yes.
Remember the Balkan conflict in the 90s? I remember NATO was dropping bombs on Belgrade to try to stop Serbia (it may have been 'Yugoslavia' then) from waging the war. And I remember some very angry Russian lawmakers in the Russian parliament (the 'Duma'?) wanting Russia to do something to help their Slav brothers in Serbia. But Russians couldn't do much then.
*The accumulated sense of humiliation seems to be coming to a point of Do-or-Die in the current conflict.* And all this was unnecessary if the West had waited to let the almost-70--year old Putin to pass away. But some people can't wait to grab Russia's riches and that's what I see as the root cause of this conflict.

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## jhungary

Wood said:


> Yes, I've not seen the western world more united than it is right now. Russian strategy to use Trump was right on the money. EU and US were politically a divided house under Trump's able leadership. Biden was unable to do anything about it even after assuming office. But Putin has now shot himself in the foot. Almost every European country is ready to fund the insurgency that is to come and the US need not even spend a dime this turn


Well, I think Trump is in on this.

There are no way this war take less than 1 year to prepare. There are Russian Far East element and other minority element on this invasion, which mean from organisation point of view, they would need at least 2 years time to acclimatized, training , drill, transport, and building fortification, the first two alone can easily last a year, this is not a motley force you just bunch together and invade after 3 months of training (Although it does look like it) because those force are probably reserved or not needed for any other duty. Which mean US intelligence circle must have known, and which mean it would have been alerted to both President.

What I believe had happened is Trump lost the election, and ether Trump encourage Putin to attack or Putin decided this is the right time to move. Because Biden is perceived as a weak leader and if Putin go ahead, this will help Trump with 2024. And I think Putin and Trump both did not expected the reaction from EU. It was EU that blown this thing up, not the US, Biden is expected not to react, and he did, with moderate sanction, while most of the heavy sanction is from EU and it also get the EU closer and break many of its own rule, Germany send weapon to Ukraine, EU break up Russia Oil and Gas dependence (I think Putin probably think this is leverage enough) and EU finance Ukrainian Armed Force and possible Insurgency, I think the EU reaction to this is not expected. And that in turn make this invasion very unpopular. And because of its association. Trump probably just sink his 2024 bid. After the Jan 6 incident, he coming out and praise Putin on day 1 in war does not really help his image, now everyone that hate Russia will hate Trump.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498695937358811138

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498695941276291080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498696083932954629

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498696066765574151

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498695892131618821


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## Wergeland 2.0

dBSPL said:


> Bro, did this version change comes from the cause of change of mind?
> 
> (Apparently you upgraded to 2.0 stable version)



Brother i lost access to V 1.0
Hopefully V 2.0 is stable enough run for a long time 😂💪

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## Khanate

RescueRanger said:


> Foreign envoys urge Pakistan to condemn Russian invasion of Ukraine during emergency UNGA session​- https://www.dawn.com/news/1677704
> 
> @That Guy @LeGenD @The Eagle @Chak Bamu @PDF @A1Kaid @Irfan Baloch @jaibi @Horus @Signalian @HRK
> 
> Thoughts? Treading water moment!





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498285803180642306

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498697710429425672

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## Arbiter

LeGenD said:


> There are numerous scenes of death and destruction in Ukraine due to ongoing Russian military activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Death, Destruction As Russia's Invasion Of Ukraine Enters Day Six
> 
> 
> The Russian war in Ukraine has entered a sixth day, with reports that the Russian Army had set up checkpoints on the outskirts of the southern Ukrainian city of Kherson, a huge military convoy was massing outside Kyiv, and claims that Russian forces aim to encircle the port city of Mariupol.
> 
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> www.rferl.org
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> What are thermobaric vacuum bombs? Russia accused of using weapon against Ukraine
> 
> 
> Russia may be using thermobaric vacuum bombs in a “bunker-busting” role to destroy Ukrainian defensive positions – but the oxygen-fueled devices can also inflict a brutal death on casualties by suc…
> 
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> nypost.com
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> 
> 
> In pictures: Destruction and fear as war hits Ukraine
> 
> 
> Russian forces have crossed Ukraine's borders, bombing military targets near big cities.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> In pictures: civilians suffer from Russian invasion of Ukraine
> 
> 
> Heartbreaking images from Ukraine as residential areas are targeted by the Russian army
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.euronews.com
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> In Pictures: Destruction in Ukraine’s Luhansk
> 
> 
> More than 500 people have been killed in the contested city, where a shaky ceasefire holds.
> 
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> www.aljazeera.com
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> Massive Explosion From Strike On Government Building In Kharkiv Could Be A Preview Of What's To Come (Updated)
> 
> 
> Bombarding dense urban areas looks to be a tactic Russia is introducing on a grander scale to its invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Russia's invasion of Ukraine is now in its sixth day and it appears to be taking a very dark turn. After being repulsed on multiple fronts by the Ukrainian Army, the Russian military appears to have moved to attacking highly urban areas with artillery barrages. At the same time, a massive convoy is creeping towards Kyiv from the north in what can only be assumed to be preparations for an all-out assault on the capital. You can get up to speed by checking out our prior rolling coverage of this conflict here._
> 
> Just wait for the war to progress further.
> 
> Russian way of warfare is absolutely apparent in Syria:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Syria: Russia’s shameful failure to acknowledge civilian killings
> 
> 
> Russian air strikes in Syria have killed hundreds of civilians and caused massive destruction in residential areas, striking homes, a mosque and a busy market, as well as medical facilities, in a pattern of attacks that show evidence of violations of international humanitarian law, said Amnesty...
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> www.amnesty.org
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> Russia/Syria: Flurry of Prohibited Weapons Attacks
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> The Russian-Syrian joint military operation has used internationally banned and other indiscriminate weapons in unlawful attacks on civilians in northwest Syria in recent weeks, Human Rights Watch said today. According to the United Nations, the area is home to three million civilians, at least...
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> www.hrw.org
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> Dumb Bombs, Indiscriminate Strikes And Civilian Casualties In Syrian War
> 
> 
> DEAR FRIENDS. IF YOU LIKE THIS TYPE OF CONTENT, SUPPORT SOUTHFRONT WORK: PayPal: southfront@internet.ru Donation alerts: https://donationalerts.com/r/southfront Gumroad: https://gumroad.com/southfront Or...
> 
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> southfront.org
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> Russia committed war crimes in Syria, finds UN report
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> The country was also blamed for indiscriminate attacks in civilian areas without ‘a specific military objective’
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> www.theguardian.com
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> Russian war excesses in Aleppo (Syria) are well-documented in particular.
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> _- - - - -_
> 
> NATO is equipped with much higher quantity of precision munitions than any contemporary force in the world and can show much restraint in its operations.
> 
> Below are some of the recordings of situation in Baghdad in the Shock & Awe phase of the war back in 2003:
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> You can clearly see civilian infrastructure working throughout; you can also see vehicles on the roads.
> 
> To be fair, NATO also have history of war excesses in urban environments as witnessed in Fallujah (Iraq) in 2014 and Raqqa (Syria) in 2017 respectively - cities which were under control of militants at the time. But NATO allowed civilians to leave these cities before attacking them in force.
> 
> - - - - -
> 
> My point is that both Russia and NATO are NOT CLEAN when it comes to warfare.
> 
> Let us be fair in our criticism.


Fair? This is the kind of mindset I hate. If something is bad then it needs to be called out. And if something is worse then it needs to be called out even more. No ifs and buts. Scale matters. Intensity matters.

Tell me another country that have dropped nuclear bomb on a civilian population. USA is the only country to do it, not once but twice. There is no comparison.

This is the country that dropped more bombs on Laos than it did during entire ww2. Even today unexploded bombs are being found in Laos. People are still dying today because of that. Invaded Iraq on false pretences. Sanctioned international court judges and their family when they simply expressed desire to investigate it's war crimes. This is the country that destroyed many middle East countries, leading to migration crisis that led to rise of anti immigration and far right in Europe. And what about the many and many government overthrows. Even in countries where people have genuine concern and genuine reasons for political change, this country hijacks those movement for its own benefits. Where do I even stop.

But somehow I am not being fair in my criticism? The fact that I choose to call out atrocities of USA more, because they are worse, is somehow not being fair in my criticism. Bruh you are the one not being fair in your criticism.

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## Khanate

Corax said:


> Fascinating reading this thread.
> 
> If this isn't a demonstration of the slow death of the Western world, I don't know what is. While Putin's Russia has the West scrambling around for a response, and potentially escalating the conflict to the rest of Europe, China must be thinking about the potential opportunities to pick up the pieces and vacuum left behind. Let the West fight amongst themselves and with Russia, while it galvanises its position and emerges as the new global power, rather like how the US emerged from the ashes of WWII.
> 
> Apart from the blatant hypocrisy on show by the West, it demonstrates to all their partner nations that they cannot be trusted. Time and time again they have shown throughout the World they are more than willing to fuel the fires of conflict when it suites them, and use nations to achieve their means.
> 
> This is a massive realignment of global strategic tectonic plates, with the World increasingly split again between the 'West', and a new 'Eastern block' comprising Russia, China, Turkey, Pakistan, and perhaps many more to come. A very interesting time in history to be living in, I must say.
> 
> Gotta love those Ruskies for throwing a spanner in the works!




Putin is implementing Aleksandr Dugin doctrine.


As Russian philosopher and political analyst Aleksandr Dugin says, the unipolar world, globalist ideology, and Western hegemony are collapsing, and the US doesn't want to sit idly by. Washington is willing to take any action to stop this from happening. Thus the problem of Ukraine arose when the US declared an "impending Russian invasion."​​*Source: GlobalTimes*​

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## Suriya

It's like the massacre arranged by Mughals against Rajputs. We are asking every time all influential world leaders, among them Modi Ji, to use every resource against Putin to stop bombing and shelling: Dr Igor Polikha, Ambassador of Ukraine to India 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498660141566402562

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498660148671553537

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498700049815117824


----------



## Meengla

Corax said:


> Fascinating reading this thread.
> 
> If this isn't a demonstration of the slow death of the Western world, I don't know what is. While Putin's Russia has the West scrambling around for a response, and potentially escalating the conflict to the rest of Europe, China must be thinking about the potential opportunities to pick up the pieces and vacuum left behind. Let the West fight amongst themselves and with Russia, while it galvanises its position and emerges as the new global power, rather like how the US emerged from the ashes of WWII.
> ...
> This is a massive realignment of global strategic tectonic plates, with the World increasingly split again between the 'West', and a new 'Eastern block' comprising Russia, China, Turkey, Pakistan, and perhaps many more to come. A very interesting time in history to be living in, I must say.
> 
> Gotta love those Ruskies for throwing a spanner in the works!


Correct.
If you read Patrick J. Buchanan, he repeats that the West's decline started from the 2 World Wars. And I believe Bush's invasion of Iraq in 2003, prodded by the Israeli Lobby, has set into motion forces and events which have given the second push to the decline. 
This war is nothing but a Chinese gain!!! And so an indirect gain for Pakistan.

PS. Observing something is not as wishing something. People need to learn to read.

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## Daylamite Warrior

Lehrasap said:


> Well done.
> 
> Europe also then has to sit back and let Israel kick out all the remaining Palestinians from their lands and occupy the whole land, and then EU simply recognize the Israel right to the whole land.


Well Europe is doing that and has been since 1917, so why should we as Muslims get involved?


----------



## CrazyZ

Khanate said:


> *Iraq war criminal on Ukraine... 😭*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498674420398780417
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498659982769889287


Iraqi and Afghans are not civilized so don't count from an international legal perspective.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498702298062757893


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## jamal18

Corax said:


> Fascinating reading this thread.
> 
> If this isn't a demonstration of the slow death of the Western world, I don't know what is. While Putin's Russia has the West scrambling around for a response, and potentially escalating the conflict to the rest of Europe, China must be thinking about the potential opportunities to pick up the pieces and vacuum left behind. Let the West fight amongst themselves and with Russia, while it galvanises its position and emerges as the new global power, rather like how the US emerged from the ashes of WWII.
> 
> Apart from the blatant hypocrisy on show by the West, it demonstrates to all their partner nations that they cannot be trusted. Time and time again they have shown throughout the World they are more than willing to fuel the fires of conflict when it suites them, and use nations to achieve their means.
> 
> This is a massive realignment of global strategic tectonic plates, with the World increasingly split again between the 'West', and a new 'Eastern block' comprising Russia, China, Turkey, Pakistan, and perhaps many more to come. A very interesting time in history to be living in, I must say.
> 
> Gotta love those Ruskies for throwing a spanner in the works!


You are forgetting the fault lines between Europe and America. There is enough benefit for the European countries, and I am including Russia to work with each other. It is the US involvement that is causing conflict in Europe. Germany was essentially told by the US to cancel Nordstream 2, even though it is in it's favor. 

How much longer will Europe drop a sledgehammer on its toes at the behest of the US?

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## lastofthepatriots

hussain0216 said:


> Phul support Saar brigade
> 
> You should see some of the Indians on social media, dear lord those people can be cringy
> 
> View attachment 819877



You win the internet today.

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## Khanate

*Escalate to...*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498596656455229441

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## nang2

jamal18 said:


> You are forgetting the fault lines between Europe and America. There is enough benefit for the European countries, and I am including Russia to work with each other. It is the US involvement that is causing conflict in Europe. Germany was essentially told by the US to cancel Nordstream 2, even though it is in it's favor.
> 
> How much longer will Europe drop a sledgehammer on its toes at the behest of the US?


I suspect that Europe was secretly hoping that Russia had a quick victory in a short war. From what the market has behaved in the past few days, you can sense how investors feel about this conflict. A panic sell at the beginning was immediately followed by a quick recovery in both stock and oil/gold markets in the opposite direction. Now, that hope seems to have dissipated and the market resumes downfall and oil/gold spiked.

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## TheNoob

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498695937358811138
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498695941276291080
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498696083932954629
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498696066765574151
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498695892131618821



Hi, I want to point out that 3 of those videos at least are repeats from the last 3 days.


----------



## Khanate

Suriya said:


> It's like the massacre arranged by Mughals against Rajputs. We are asking every time all influential world leaders, among them Modi Ji, to use every resource against Putin to stop bombing and shelling: Dr Igor Polikha, Ambassador of Ukraine to India
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498660141566402562
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498660148671553537

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## SIPRA

Khanate said:


> View attachment 819891



In this conflict, Modi and India are displaying some bisexual tendencies, by trying to play, on both sides:

"Yazeed say bhi maraasam, Hussain ko bhi salaam"


----------



## obj 705A

So this talk about 70 warplanes donated to Ukraine was also just another massive dose of copium for the neo Nazis..

Poland and Bulgaria deny warplanes supply to Ukraine​
Polish President Andrzej Duda said on Monday Poland and NATO were not part of the conflict between Russia and Ukraine and therefore can’t send jets to join the combat. _“We are not sending any jets to Ukraine because that would open a military interference in the Ukrainian conflict. We are not joining that conflict. NATO is not a party to that conflict,”_ he said at a press conference after his meeting with NATO General Secretary Jens Stoltenberg, adding that they were supporting Ukrainians with humanitarian aid.

NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg has also confirmed that NATO was not to be part of the conflict, and therefore was not to send any troops and planes to Ukraine. However, he confirmed that NATO will continue to provide Ukraine with financial and military support, such as anti-tank weapons, air defense systems, and other types of military equipment.

Earlier on Tuesday, the Ukrainian Air Force officially announced on their Facebook page that three NATO countries – Poland, Slovakia, and Bulgaria – would deliver more than 70 warplanes for the Ukrainian army. The jets were supposed to be able to operate from Polish airfields.

The Bulgarian Defense Ministry told local media on Tuesday that it has not considered providing combat aircraft to Ukraine.

Military conflict between Russia and Ukraine broke out on Thursday after Russian authorities launched a military operation, claiming it was necessary to _“demilitarize”_ and _“denazify”_ Ukraine to protect the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics. The international community imposed heavy sanctions against Russia and closed airspace of more than 30 countries worldwide as a response to the _“unprovoked”_ hostilities.

The first round of negotiations between Russia and Ukraine was held on Monday in an undisclosed location on the Belarus-Ukrainian border. The key goal of the negotiations was to achieve a ceasefire.



https://www.rt.com/news/550955-poland-bulgaria-deny-warplanes-ukraine/

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## coffee_cup

Does someone know where Mexico stands on this conflict?

Has Mexico put sanctions on Russia as well?

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## xuxu1457



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## Oublious

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498692841526251526

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## maverick1977

obj 705A said:


> So this talk about 70 warplanes donated to Ukraine was also just another massive dose of copium for the neo Nazis..
> 
> Poland and Bulgaria deny warplanes supply to Ukraine​
> Polish President Andrzej Duda said on Monday Poland and NATO were not part of the conflict between Russia and Ukraine and therefore can’t send jets to join the combat. _“We are not sending any jets to Ukraine because that would open a military interference in the Ukrainian conflict. We are not joining that conflict. NATO is not a party to that conflict,”_ he said at a press conference after his meeting with NATO General Secretary Jens Stoltenberg, adding that they were supporting Ukrainians with humanitarian aid.
> 
> NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg has also confirmed that NATO was not to be part of the conflict, and therefore was not to send any troops and planes to Ukraine. However, he confirmed that NATO will continue to provide Ukraine with financial and military support, such as anti-tank weapons, air defense systems, and other types of military equipment.
> 
> Earlier on Tuesday, the Ukrainian Air Force officially announced on their Facebook page that three NATO countries – Poland, Slovakia, and Bulgaria – would deliver more than 70 warplanes for the Ukrainian army. The jets were supposed to be able to operate from Polish airfields.
> 
> The Bulgarian Defense Ministry told local media on Tuesday that it has not considered providing combat aircraft to Ukraine.
> 
> Military conflict between Russia and Ukraine broke out on Thursday after Russian authorities launched a military operation, claiming it was necessary to _“demilitarize”_ and _“denazify”_ Ukraine to protect the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics. The international community imposed heavy sanctions against Russia and closed airspace of more than 30 countries worldwide as a response to the _“unprovoked”_ hostilities.
> 
> The first round of negotiations between Russia and Ukraine was held on Monday in an undisclosed location on the Belarus-Ukrainian border. The key goal of the negotiations was to achieve a ceasefire.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.rt.com/news/550955-poland-bulgaria-deny-warplanes-ukraine/




So many lies being spread by Ukranian officials, i am sorta feeling bad, desperate times need desperate measures.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498707579635175433

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## vizier

RescueRanger said:


> Foreign envoys urge Pakistan to condemn Russian invasion of Ukraine during emergency UNGA session​- https://www.dawn.com/news/1677704
> 
> @That Guy @LeGenD @The Eagle @Chak Bamu @PDF @A1Kaid @Irfan Baloch @jaibi @Horus @Signalian @HRK
> 
> Thoughts? Treading water moment!


Just like Turkey and Iran, Pakistan has to pursue a balance policy. If we keep control and dont phase out we can see openings and use the events to our own advantage without blatantly attacking somewhere and risking everything. There can be a hidden motive behind these events for other countries joining to this fire one way or another and momentum of conflict.would then grow worldwide. After the plague-pandemic and looming economic crisis a worldwide conflict turning to a war would be a third blow to the world stability and make it almost irrepairable and the repairer would get everything.

Pakistan has high trade relations with west and can be threatened by trade partners with stopping it but being anti Russia would create a rift with China causing security issues coming from India as well as economic issues. Pakistan does not have much economic relations with Russia anyways and further growth can be planned and maybe trading Russia through China if they are totally isolated from swift which is a low probability. China can come up with Russian imported modified weapons and sell to Pakistan. You can keep this card as leverage balance point as well and be prepared to jump to Chinese swift version immediately if there is too much opposition against you. You can say you are pro peace and against war and similar bendable words in unga session but through China Russia will not think that there wont be negative measures from Pakistan. Iran is already starting from Chinese swift version in practical terms and the western economic relations after the nuclear deal would be the balance point gradually increasing with growth and trust builds up. Same for Eu there would be a similar balance after they come to terms with Russia through time and mideast gas and other products.

On the other side of the coin I am sure there is pressure over India to turn against Russia and they are part of the quad allience. But in that case starting a military op against India would have negative consequences for both China and Pakistan for gaining small parts of disputed land. Knowing from previous world wars it is easy to enter but very hard to exit and not to lose too much. Other forces like usa will later intervene as well. In that case you can together with China pressure India and capture markets start trade wars instead of actual ones. Ofcourse I am not against defensive wars if an attack occurs giving adequate support to allies but unless a crazy guy like trump comes it is low probability and would be very difficult to explain a Usa preemptive strike against China in south China seas or similar.

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## Muhammed45

coffee_cup said:


> Does someone know where Mexico stands on this conflict?
> 
> Has Mexico put sanctions on Russia as well?


Mexico is USA's colony. What do you expect?

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## That Guy

RescueRanger said:


> Foreign envoys urge Pakistan to condemn Russian invasion of Ukraine during emergency UNGA session​- https://www.dawn.com/news/1677704
> 
> @That Guy @LeGenD @The Eagle @Chak Bamu @PDF @A1Kaid @Irfan Baloch @jaibi @Horus @Signalian @HRK
> 
> Thoughts? Treading water moment!


Pakistan should keep quiet. This has nothing to do with Pakistan, and taking a side will only harm Pakistan. 

The most Pakistan should do is make vague comments like "both sides should negotiate".

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## nang2

Muhammed45 said:


> Mexico is USA's colony. What do you expect?


Mexicans probably see USA as their colony. Look how many Mexicans come to US and colonize it each year.

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## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498707579635175433



Holy moly I’ve got boots older than those lambs. ☹️



That Guy said:


> The most Pakistan should do is make vague comments like "both sides should negotiate".


Fully concur.


----------



## dBSPL



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## SIPRA

That Guy said:


> Pakistan should keep quiet. This has nothing to do with Pakistan, and taking a side will only harm Pakistan.
> 
> The most Pakistan should do is make vague comments like "both sides should negotiate".



Yes. Homeopathic type of statements.

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## RescueRanger

Russians took down the Ukrainian Higb Commission website to prevent British weekend warriors from joining 😂









Ukrainian UK embassy website is DOWN stopping Brits from joining foreign legion


THE Ukrainian embassy in London’s website is currently down – meaning Brits can’t use it to sign up to join the foreign legion. A message pops up to anyone trying to log onto the …



www.thesun.co.uk

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## LeGenD

Wood said:


> Yes, I've not seen the western world more united than it is right now. Russian strategy to use Trump was right on the money. EU and US were politically a divided house under Trump's able leadership. Biden was unable to do anything about it even after assuming office. But Putin has now shot himself in the foot. Almost every European country is ready to fund the insurgency that is to come and the US need not even spend a dime this turn


👍

In view of following developments:

[1] Germany approved Nord Stream 2 in 2011 (construction complete in 2021);
[2] Donald Trump courted Vladimir Putin during his Presidency (2017 - 2021);
[3] UK approved Brexit in 2020;

- the impression was that the European Identity is falling apart and it is only a matter of time that NATO will be irrelevant as well.

Putin looked focused and unstoppable - he was winning on the global chess board. The American Deep State was in PANIC mode. Putin's mere smile was sufficient to send a shiver down the spine of anybody in Pentagon.

But Putin shot himself in the foot instead - he decided to bite more than he could chew by attempting 'regime change' in Ukraine. He managed to rally the entire OECD against him with this gross miscalculation. He rejuvenated the Western hemisphere in the process. The American Deep State is on the move now.

Putin did his best to malign his counterpart in Ukraine and created a major humanitarian crises in the country.









Zelensky vs Putin: who’s winning the PR battle?


As Russian bombs fell across Ukraine, the contrast between the leaders of the warring nations could not be starker.




www.scmp.com





There is a lesson to be learnt in this.

There is a saying in Urdu: _Baaz Ajao Khuda Ki Lathi Be Awaz Hoti Hai_

Some will not get it though - the ultimate tragedy of mankind.

Just because another party was oppressive at some point - doesn't means that YOU follow suit and JOIN the club as well.

Where is the mighty Bush family today? It became irrelevant.

Do NOT oppress the weak. Simple.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498710616659402755

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498694966700347396

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## Wergeland 2.0

obj 705A said:


> So this talk about 70 warplanes donated to Ukraine was also just another massive dose of copium for the neo Nazis..
> 
> Poland and Bulgaria deny warplanes supply to Ukraine​
> Polish President Andrzej Duda said on Monday Poland and NATO were not part of the conflict between Russia and Ukraine and therefore can’t send jets to join the combat. _“We are not sending any jets to Ukraine because that would open a military interference in the Ukrainian conflict. We are not joining that conflict. NATO is not a party to that conflict,”_ he said at a press conference after his meeting with NATO General Secretary Jens Stoltenberg, adding that they were supporting Ukrainians with humanitarian aid.
> 
> NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg has also confirmed that NATO was not to be part of the conflict, and therefore was not to send any troops and planes to Ukraine. However, he confirmed that NATO will continue to provide Ukraine with financial and military support, such as anti-tank weapons, air defense systems, and other types of military equipment.
> 
> Earlier on Tuesday, the Ukrainian Air Force officially announced on their Facebook page that three NATO countries – Poland, Slovakia, and Bulgaria – would deliver more than 70 warplanes for the Ukrainian army. The jets were supposed to be able to operate from Polish airfields.
> 
> The Bulgarian Defense Ministry told local media on Tuesday that it has not considered providing combat aircraft to Ukraine.
> 
> Military conflict between Russia and Ukraine broke out on Thursday after Russian authorities launched a military operation, claiming it was necessary to _“demilitarize”_ and _“denazify”_ Ukraine to protect the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics. The international community imposed heavy sanctions against Russia and closed airspace of more than 30 countries worldwide as a response to the _“unprovoked”_ hostilities.
> 
> The first round of negotiations between Russia and Ukraine was held on Monday in an undisclosed location on the Belarus-Ukrainian border. The key goal of the negotiations was to achieve a ceasefire.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.rt.com/news/550955-poland-bulgaria-deny-warplanes-ukraine/



Europe dosent want this war.
If one analyse the whole situation from a geostrategic and geoeconomic standpoint, the Russo-Ukrainian war is completely against the interest of Germany and France.

It is United States that is the Grand Architect of this war, with UK and Poland as its foremost supporters.

The United States dosent trust France and Germany because these are proud, strong and independent minded states who both historically has proven, and still is capable and INTERESTED in, carving out its own spheres in a new multipolar world.

What is the US plan for hindering a Franco-German ascendence? Its AUKUS!!! and using AUKUS to prevent any US competitor from arising in the World Island.
With AUKUS the US now has core group of countries which are linguistically and culturally mirror copies of itself, and whom which it can trust to a much higher degree than forexample Germany. On this AUKUS bandwagon there are codependents like former soviet republics Poland, balticum, Scandinavia etc.

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## monitor

The Ukrainian Army just captured a Russian TOS-1A thermobaric MRL. 🇺🇦🇷🇺








Rob Lee
@RALee85
·
1h
An abandoned Russian Tor-M2 air defense system 9A331M TLAR in Ukraine, which is Russia’s best short-range air defense system.

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## coffee_cup

Muhammed45 said:


> Mexico is USA's colony. What do you expect?



I read in some German news, not only have the refused to be part of sanction regime against Russia but have also criticized banning of RT and Sputnik.

This is why I was wondering whether it is true.

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## HRK

RescueRanger said:


> Foreign envoys urge Pakistan to condemn Russian invasion of Ukraine during emergency UNGA session​- https://www.dawn.com/news/1677704
> 
> @That Guy @LeGenD @The Eagle @Chak Bamu @PDF @A1Kaid @Irfan Baloch @jaibi @Horus @Signalian @HRK
> 
> Thoughts? Treading water moment!


It's our moment to claim our firm position in Non-Aligned Movement and the reason of my opinion is explain below in summarize manner

- Moscow is just 700 Km from Kyiv





so for Russia situation is same as _it was in 1962 during the days of Cuban Missile Crisis _, only thing different today is the reversal of roles previously US was seeking to defend against the '*Potential threats*' to its Nation & was trying to safeguard its Political and Strategic Interest in the region.

Now it's Russia who is defending against the *Potential Threat* you can see that Moscow is Just 750 KM from Ukraine's Capital Kyiv and in the days of Hypersonic missiles it is just negligible, so Moscow and main population centers of Russia could not be defended if hostile forces to Russia manage to install their missiles in Ukraine.

*This thing alone shows the importance of Ukraine for Russia in her defence posture *so Russia could seriously go to any extent to defend itself against the potential threat and by any extent I mean I could not rule out the possibility of use of Nuclear weapon, if need arise.

- We have seen Hillary Clinton remarks about Ukraine crisis in which she hinted the possibility of application of Afghan Jihad Model, *BUT * we must understand Ukraine is not Afghanistan neither in terms of train nor in terms of Social Behaviour, secondly we know to implement a successful model of Afghan Jihad the whole region has to pay the price not just in terms finance but social and political prices as well, we have paid it therefore we know how destructive it could be.

Therefore I don't think Europe would prefer to apply Afghan Jihad Model at their doorstep (Ukraine) so what could be the possible outcome of Ukraine crisis .... ??

- In my opinion Europe would try to resolve the matter on table but till the resolution will keep supporting mid to low scale military operations by Ukraine arms forces and allied militias & mercenaries from all over the world.

One thing for sure is that _this crises would give raise to the feelings and political ideologies of Ultra Nationalism based on Racism in Europe_, we have seen this happening within the first few days of this conflict, I don't want to repeat the media reportings and certain actions of far right groups, this thing will again affect the migrants in Europe negatively.

*IF *Europ chose to defuse conflict in its immediate neighbourhood (which it should) then it will respond to Russia somewhere else may be in Middle East, which mean a _destabilize Syria and possibly Iran as well, Turkey might also face some of the toughest situation on its borders _

In any case this crisis could affect us negatively irrespective of our stance of favoring to any party of the conflict, so rather to pick one side and make other enemy _*it's better IF we stick with our stance that we respect Sovereignty of every State and all the crisis must be resolved diplomatically.*_

One thing is sure general public of west will now understand that the so called Rules based International System which West used to claim to establish was not working for the rest of the world, but now it is not even working for them as well.

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## Shotgunner51

coffee_cup said:


> I read in some German news, not only have the refused to be part of sanction regime against Russia but have also criticized banning of RT and Sputnik.
> 
> This is why I was wondering whether it is true.


MEXICO CITY, March 1 (Reuters) - Mexico will not impose any economic sanctions on Russia for invading Ukraine, Mexican President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador said on Tuesday.

He also criticized what he called censorship of Russian state-sponsored media by social media companies.

_"We are not going to take any sort of economic reprisal because we want to have good relations with all the governments in the world,"_ Lopez Obrador told a news conference.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498685805967155211

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498712709247946755

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498713688009805825

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## nang2

LeGenD said:


> 👍
> 
> In view of following developments:
> 
> [1] Germany approved Nord Stream 2 in 2011 (construction complete in 2021);
> [2] Donald Trump courted Vladimir Putin during his Presidency (2017 - 2021);
> [3] UK approved Brexit in 2020;
> 
> - the impression was that the European Identity is falling apart and it is only a matter of time that NATO will be irrelevant as well.
> 
> Putin looked focused and unstoppable - he was winning on the global chess board. The American Deep State was in PANIC mode. Putin's mere smile was sufficient to send a shiver down the spine of anybody in Pentagon.
> 
> But Putin shot himself in the foot instead - he decided to bite more than he could chew by attempting 'regime change' in Ukraine. He managed to rally the entire OECD against him with this gross miscalculation. He rejuvenated the Western hemisphere in the process. The American Deep State is on the move now.
> 
> There is a lesson to be learnt in this.
> 
> Putin have attempted to malign his peer in Ukraine and created a major humanitarian crises in the country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zelensky vs Putin: who’s winning the PR battle?
> 
> 
> As Russian bombs fell across Ukraine, the contrast between the leaders of the warring nations could not be starker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.scmp.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a saying in Urdu: _Baaz Ajao Khuda Ki Lathi Be Awaz Hoti Hai_
> 
> Some will not get it though - the ultimate tragedy of mankind.
> 
> Just because another party was oppressive at some point - doesn't means that YOU follow suit and JOIN the club as well.
> 
> Where is the mighty Bush family today? It became irrelevant.
> 
> Do NOT oppress the weak. Simple.


NATO is an American creation and bears the American identity, not an European one. Europeans have been searching for their own identity independent from Americans and they haven't found it yet. So, they still rely on Americans and suffer from the latter.

I think Trump is the true pacifist. Those who can acknowledge and listen to the voice of the opposite side have the true capability to maintain peace, unlike those self-righteous people filled with high-sounding words in their mouths and cotton balls in their ears.

With Trump, NATO would not be so aggressive in expansion and other member countries should pick up more responsibility in the effort of self-defense, which means less attractive to those cheap countries that just want something without paying for it. In fact, this would help Europe find its own identity when major European countries step up in maintaining the peace of Europe, instead of relying on NATO.


----------



## Paul2

jhungary said:


> 1.) No Mobilisation on Convoy mostly because the drone and fighter run out of ammo. IT's a 6 days old war, US/EU only resupplying them 2 days ago, it's not surprise the Ukrainian had run out of bombs and missile.
> 
> 2.) The Eastern State traditionally is not a strong supporter for the Ukrainian central government, also the difficulty to supply weapon to Eastern province. But despite that, unconfirm info suggest Kharkiv have form a 20,000 TDF,
> 
> 3.) The south is open woodland, they aren't dense urban area like in the North, and the fact that Southern Urban cities (Mariupol and Odessa) has not yet fall means the progress is largely on the outskirt.
> 
> 4.) Logistic is going to be a problem in the eastern city, as most of them are close to Russia border, making Russian interdiction easier.
> 
> 5.) TDF are the reserve, they need to withhold regular troop on the West to hold down the West in order to get supplies in.
> 
> 6.) Well, consider now 75% of the invasion force are mobilised, it will be hard to do hit and run, it would work in the early stage but not when they started to swing the number at you.
> 
> 7.) At this point artillery are probably used as COUNTBAT, it would be wise to deploy it closer to Kyiv.
> 
> 8.) At this point, precision strike are not going to be effective, as they started to mass their troop, in case you have not notice, there is a shift of Russian tactics, now they are more align to old Soviet style Armor Column attack, Precision Strike can be use to target Russian C&C and command structure, but nothing else. And even if they do, the sheer number will still dwarf them
> 
> 9.) As I said before, now it's the traditional siege, they are going to thrust at Ukrainian defence with overwhelming number of Armor, at this point, you should reposition every available support fire to the rear, and absorb the first strike, then use artillery to mess up the second line.
> 
> 10.) Don't think this is an Ukrainian C&C problem, this is what we called a static phase, basically Russia is going to come at Ukrainian with everything they got, sure, using support asset take out one or two unit here and there, you can do that, but it would not make any different as you are facing a giant head on assault, Tradition NATO playbook is hunker down, let the Amour rolled thru and then attack the infantry that followed with your unit and artillery support.
> 
> 11.) I think they are now incapable to act on Intel, again, a combination of trying to preserve force and logistic issue..
> 
> 12.) It wouldn't do much, as I said before, the Russian tried to disable Ukrainian airfield by launching missile on precision strike, we all know how that goes, and Russian have more advance missile.
> 
> 13.) Well, as I said before, you can only do so much hit and run. once they are adapted to your strategy, you can't really do that anymore. Now it's way pass that, this is now a siege warfare. You need to be able to absorb damage now, which mean for Ukrainian, every unit counts
> 
> 14.) That's Russian battleplan tho. The Russian south need to take both Dnipro and Mariupol and another Marine landing over at Odessa
> 
> 15.) Russia changed their tactics since last night, no doubt, If Ukraine was smart, they should start resupplying the Kyiv. They can lose any city, but they can't lose Kyiv. Now this is going to turn into a siege warfare, which mean support, supply and troop have to be concentrated. I don't think there are anything Ukrainian can do but Hunker down and take the onslaught at this point,



1.) I meant that on 20th, US told them that Russia effectively telexed their commanders an attack plan, and Ukrainian pres didn't call for mobilisation, and draft. It cost them 3-4 days, and ability to do the last minute resupply.

2.) The East Ukraine holds the most remarkable actually, with a lot of armour kills, thus not much reports of fighting with armour there now, but about Russians doing hide & seek, in woods around Kharkiv, and retreating behind the border in few cases.

Donetsk direction had almost a half of all Ukrainian heavy units, because they were there since 2014. It seems it actually working, and well supplied to hold on for quite some time.

3.) I checked few maps, there are no woodlands in the south, as its almost all agricultural land, and very open fields. My guess they were very afraid of scattered ATGM teams, which effectively outrange Russian tanks, and waited for solid air cover to regroup in larger formations before the push.

And I guess, they are also afraid of a chance for cutoff, as I shown on a map few days ago.

4.) True, but they got there, just very slowly. Legacy Soviet logistics hurts Ukraine as much as Russians.

5.) Ukraine had a lot of initiative early on, they had an option to spare at least something to keep it for longer.

6.) Important to say that Russians had enormous early push completely destroyed in woods north of Kiyv, after which they decided to avoid woods, and go through more open terrain around. Their force in Belo was already 40% spent around late 27th. Ukrainians definitely had an option to sent some men forwards at least to blow up some bridges, and let sappers to their job (mining.)

Look at google maps on Ukrainian Belorussian border, terrible terrain, dense woodlands, multiple rivers, and swamps. This is why they captured Chernobyl first of all things.

If they had them still pinned in woods, their attrition rate would've been much more favourable, and they would've won more time, even at the price of these forces.

7.) Do they need to save them for counterbat when they know that they will not have such opportunity in the future? It would've been the best to spend them early on to inflict maximum casualties on pinned enemy forces in first days. Instead, even now I see videos dated 1st of March of assorted MLRS, and tube artillery coming from the West of the country to somewhere without accompanying force. They probably think they still can reach Kiyv to meaningfully employ these MLRS.

8.) Indeed, I wrote on this seashift 2 days ago. It was Ukrainian overexuberance about getting precision weapons which clouded their vision about them having to fight world's No.2 military by size. These days, NATO military thinkers too are often forgetting the importance of raw firepower.

9.) 

11.) 

12.)

13.) It seems to be the siege warfare now, but they had an opportunity to delay this a lot, and get more supplies to territorials in Kiyv, which are numerous, but lack heavy weapons.

14.) I think your are right, and they are not really afraid of scattered ATGM teams which harass them. They just wait for regroup, while absorbing the damage in the South. But... Ukrainians still can blow up more bridges there, and delay them by a lot.

15.)


----------



## The SC

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498700049815117824




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498702323064975371

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## Wergeland 2.0

coffee_cup said:


> I read in some German news, not only have the refused to be part of sanction regime against Russia but have also criticized banning of RT and Sputnik.
> 
> This is why I was wondering whether it is true.



There are many German who support Russia.
Many reasons for this;

-Russia is a natural resource provider.
-Russia is a balancer against the UK-US axis
-Russian state and education is modeled after Preussian Germany
- Russian influence in former DDR area is still significant.
- Germans of Russian heritage
- Russia and Germany are geostrategically natural allies

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498711394518290435

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498711881384660998


----------



## coffee_cup

Shotgunner51 said:


> MEXICO CITY, March 1 (Reuters) - Mexico will not impose any economic sanctions on Russia for invading Ukraine, Mexican President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador said on Tuesday.
> 
> He also criticized what he called censorship of Russian state-sponsored media by social media companies.
> 
> "We are not going to take any sort of economic reprisal because we want to have good relations with all the governments in the world," Lopez Obrador told a news conference.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498685805967155211



Thank you for sharing @Shotgunner51 

So the news was true then.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498701243404926977


----------



## Taimoor Khan

Khanate said:


> *Iraq war criminal on Ukraine... 😭*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498674420398780417
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498659982769889287




People have short memories. Russians are doing nothing as compared to what Americans did to Iraq, and its cities.

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## Wergeland 2.0

Daylamite Warrior said:


> Well Europe is doing that and has been since 1917, so why should we as Muslims get involved?



Brother, the world is no longer separated into disconnected regions like in the old days. Today everyone is interconnected. Small event far from where we live can evolve and have consequences for us that we couldnt imagine.

It is also our duty as muslims to take the side of the opressed against the opressors.

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## Lehrasap

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> There are many German who support Russia.
> Many reasons for this;
> 
> -Russia is a natural resource provider.
> -Russia is a balancer against the UK-US axis
> -Russian state and education is modeled after Preussian Germany
> - Russian influence in former DDR area is still significant.
> - Germans of Russian heritage
> - Russia and Germany are geostrategically natural allies



There may be only a handful of German who think like this. 
Remaining Germans are standing with Ukraine and EU. 
Even the Russian speaking Germans (or at least their majority) are also not in favour of Putin.

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## Big_bud

Western hypocracy. West would cause its own downfall.

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## QWECXZ

You got to love Zelensky's Neo-Nazi gang







Such a fine group of gentlemen. ISIS is bad when it attacks Europe, it's good when it attacks Syria. Al-Qaeda is good when they fight against the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, they're bad when they attack the United States. Nazism is bad when they kill Jews, it's good when they kill Russians and Muslims. I think you get the idea.

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## Wergeland 2.0

Lehrasap said:


> There may be only a handful of German who think like this.
> Remaining Germans are standing with Ukraine and EU.
> Even the Russian speaking Germans (or at least their majority) are also not in favour of Putin.



You are probably right according to present discourse.

Still what i said is valid imo. The thing is people are influenced by current events and media to a large extent. Disliking Putin and Ukrainian invasion is also not the same as hating Russia as whole.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498716529784987653


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu




----------



## Oom

This a defence forum right? Can members please stick to the topic. I’m sure there are other threads where they can discuss other matters.

It’s hard trying to follow the conflict, when page after page is filled with irrelevant matters with some useful post in between.

Just open a new thread for those who want to discuss matter incidental to the invasion.

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## coffee_cup

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> There are many German who support Russia.
> Many reasons for this;
> 
> -Russia is a natural resource provider.
> -Russia is a balancer against the UK-US axis
> -Russian state and education is modeled after Preussian Germany
> - Russian influence in former DDR area is still significant.
> - Germans of Russian heritage
> - Russia and Germany are geostrategically natural allies



Actually there is a significant Russian population in Germany. But Russophobian media onslaught has ensured that the German left (or interestingly German right) will have hard time supporting anything Russian in the coming years.

I feel for both normal Ukranian and Russian populations. They have nothing to do with this war.

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## Lone Ranger

HAIDER said:


> View attachment 819709
> 
> lolzzz


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498718721006882825


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498718014925160452

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498192516985802754

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## Shotgunner51

coffee_cup said:


> Thank you for sharing @Shotgunner51
> 
> So the news was true then.


You are welcome. I didn't pay attention to responses of Latin America until I saw your post, and found those responses quite different from what I've imagined, say Brazil.








https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-news-02-27-22/h_b2ead409d34681d2bd17cd7e29bce505

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## NA71

Taimoor Khan said:


> People have short memories. Russians are doing nothing as compared to what Americans did to Iraq, and its cities.


exactly, from carpet bombing to Mother of all Bomb to depleted Uranium ammunition...they tested every piece of military hardware they developed on Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan....now crying for human loss.

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## PakAlp

Ukraine is being supported by all Europe to N America. Russia is hit with sanctions, propaganda, military support for Ukraine. What are Russia allies like Belarus, Armenia, Syria, Iran, India and China, N Korea, Kazakhstan are planning to do to help Russia.

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## LeGenD

*UPDATE*

Over 600,000 Ukrainians are displaced and have fled to Poland by now.

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## Wergeland 2.0

NA71 said:


> exactly, from carpet bombing to Mother of all Bomb to depleted Uranium ammunition...they tested every piece of military hardware they developed on Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan....now crying for human loss.



Russia could also just fire a N-bomb in the middle of nowhere in Ukraine and the regime would surrender in matter of hours. Of course that is the nuclear option…not something Russia would want to..luckily for everyone.


----------



## R Wing

QWECXZ said:


> You got to love Zelensky's Neo-Nazi gang
> 
> View attachment 819900
> 
> 
> Such a fine group of gentlemen. ISIS is bad when it attacks Europe, it's good when it attacks Syria. Al-Qaeda is good when they fight against the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, they're bad when they attack the United States. Nazism is bad when they kill Jews, it's good when they kill Russians and Muslims. I think you get the idea.



I'm so glad people are waking up to all these double standards. It astounds me that the liberal elite in many countries, including Muslim countries, still fall for Western tropes.

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## RescueRanger

HRK said:


> It's our moment to claim our firm position in Non-Aligned Movement and the reason of my opinion is explain below in summarize manner
> 
> - Moscow is just 700 Km from Kyiv
> View attachment 819886
> 
> 
> so for Russia situation is same as _it was in 1962 during the days of Cuban Missile Crisis _, only thing different today is the reversal of roles previously US was seeking to defend against the '*Potential threats*' to its Nation & was trying to safeguard its Political and Strategic Interest in the region.
> 
> Now it's Russia who is defending against the *Potential Threat* you can see that Moscow is Just 750 KM from Ukraine's Capital Kyiv and in the days of Hypersonic missiles it is just negligible, so Moscow and main population centers of Russia could be defended if hostile forces to Russia manage to install their missiles in Ukraine.
> 
> *This thing alone shows the importance of Ukraine for Russia in her defence posture *so Russia could seriously go to any extent to defend itself against the potential threat and by any extent I mean I could not rule out the possibility of use of Nuclear weapon, if need arise.
> 
> - We have seen Hillary Clinton remarks about Ukraine crisis in which she hinted the possibility of application of Afghan Jihad Model, *BUT * we must understand Ukraine is not Afghanistan neither in terms of train nor in terms of Social Behaviour, secondly we know to implement a successful model of Afghan Jihad the whole region has to pay the price not just in terms finance but social and political prices as well, we have paid it therefore we know how destructive it could be.
> 
> Therefore I don't think Europe would prefer to apply Afghan Jihad Model at their doorstep (Ukraine) so what could be the possible outcome of Ukraine crisis .... ??
> 
> - In my opinion Europe would try to resolve the matter on table but till the resolution will keep supporting mid to low scale military operations by Ukraine arms forces and allied militias & mercenaries from all over the world.
> 
> One thing for sure is that _this crises would give raise to the feelings and political ideologies of Ultra Nationalism based on Racism in Europe_, we have seen this happening within the first few days of this conflict, I don't want to repeat the media reportings and certain actions of far right groups, this thing will again affect the migrants in Europe negatively.
> 
> *IF *Europ chose to defuse conflict in its immediate neighbourhood (which it should) then it will respond to Russia somewhere else may be in Middle East, which mean a _destabilize Syria and possibly Iran as well, Turkey might also face some of the toughest situation on its borders _
> 
> In any case this crisis could affect us negatively irrespective of our stance of favoring to any party of the conflict, so rather to pick one side and make other enemy _*it's better IF we stick with our stance that we respect Sovereignty of every State and all the crisis must be resolved diplomatically.*_
> 
> One thing is sure general public of west will now understand that the so called Rules based International System which West used to claim to establish was not working for the rest of the world, but now it is not even working for them as well.


As always HRK thank you very much for your valuable insight 🙂👍

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## Wergeland 2.0

LeGenD said:


> *UPDATE*
> 
> Over 600,000 Ukrainians are displaced and have fled to Poland by now.



This is the major tragedy of any war. The human cost. Innocent people who has done nothing wrong than to exist and try to build a life for themselves. Now forced to abandon their ancentral land.

Hopefully this war ends quickly so that refugees who wish to, can go back and rebuild their land, hopefully with international help.

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## coffee_cup

Shotgunner51 said:


> You are welcome. I didn't pay attention to responses of Latin America until I saw your post, and found those responses quite different from what I've imagined, say Brazil.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498075892240814090



"Ukrainians "entrusted fate of the nation to a comedian [Zelenskyy]""

He actually said that? wow..

I have a feeling that West reacted in haste and played all their big cards early on. Now, there is not much of leverage left over Russia. The sanctions should have come slowly in waves according to escalations on ground and might have given some space to Putin to go back to his people with a compromise. But instead they have pushed him against the wall with no room to move. Nothing short of a complete take over will soothe his ego.

All announcements of further sanctions have lost their impact. Not many countries outside the Western world left to join in.

My subjective opinion.

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## PakAlp

The history of Ukraine/Russia conflict and why Russia took military action

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498724867717410824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498723256999755777

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## hussain0216

LeGenD said:


> *UPDATE*
> 
> Over 600,000 Ukrainians are displaced and have fled to Poland by now.



Poland didn't want refugees, hope they enjoy them now

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## RescueRanger

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498716529784987653


Outdated ? Brah that shit brought down a SEAL TEAM.

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## Meengla

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> With AUKUS the US now has core group of countries which are* linguistically and culturally mirror copies of itself,* and whom which it can trust to a much higher degree than forexample Germany.



Yes.
People underestimate the linguistic and cultural ties. Japan and Germany have been American allies for 70 odd years--and powerful ones too--but they, and the French--have never been given the same place beside the hearth and heart of Washington as the other 'Anglos' have been given.
We humans are driven by very old evolutionary instincts to align with people of our own kind when all other factors removed from the equation....

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## Mujahid Memon

dBSPL said:


> Can someone translate?


US to Turkey

US: On whose side are you

Turkey: Of course on your side (while pointing finger/hand towards the other side)

Turkey: My finger maybe on other side but my heart is on your side

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## Pappa Alpha

RescueRanger said:


> Outdated ? Brah that shit brought down a SEAL TEAM.


I have seen video of a US Marine platoon suppressed and pinned by a AT sniper probably using a SMLE. Nothing is outdated if used effectively.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498727088152526853

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498726581950648321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498726619124584448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498725396346507269

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## RescueRanger

Pappa Alpha said:


> I have seen video of a US Marine platoon suppressed and pinned by a AT sniper probably using a SMLE. Nothing is outdated if used effectively.


Exactly 🙂👍


----------



## Daylamite Warrior

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> Brother, the world is no longer separated into disconnected regions like in the old days. Today everyone is interconnected. Small event far from where we live can evolve and have consequences for us that we couldnt imagine.
> 
> It is also our duty as muslims to take the side of the opressed against the opressors.


No brother, as Muslims it is our duty to keep with the believers and stay out that which does not concern us. Did Muslims get involved with Heraclius and Kisra when they were fighting? Speak for yourself, though I choose to keep as disconnected as possible with the self-influcted affairs of the non-believers who dont see us as equals and would rather war was fought in our lands as opposed to their "white, blonde, and blue eyed" land...and as a Muslim I am not sinful for it.


----------



## HRK

HRK said:


> It's our moment to claim our firm position in Non-Aligned Movement and the reason of my opinion is explain below in summarize manner
> 
> - Moscow is just 700 Km from Kyiv
> View attachment 819886
> 
> 
> so for Russia situation is same as _it was in 1962 during the days of Cuban Missile Crisis _, only thing different today is the reversal of roles previously US was seeking to defend against the '*Potential threats*' to its Nation & was trying to safeguard its Political and Strategic Interest in the region.
> 
> Now it's Russia who is defending against the *Potential Threat* you can see that Moscow is Just 750 KM from Ukraine's Capital Kyiv and in the days of Hypersonic missiles it is just negligible, so Moscow and main population centers of Russia could be defended if hostile forces to Russia manage to install their missiles in Ukraine.
> 
> *This thing alone shows the importance of Ukraine for Russia in her defence posture *so Russia could seriously go to any extent to defend itself against the potential threat and by any extent I mean I could not rule out the possibility of use of Nuclear weapon, if need arise.
> 
> - We have seen Hillary Clinton remarks about Ukraine crisis in which she hinted the possibility of application of Afghan Jihad Model, *BUT * we must understand Ukraine is not Afghanistan neither in terms of train nor in terms of Social Behaviour, secondly we know to implement a successful model of Afghan Jihad the whole region has to pay the price not just in terms finance but social and political prices as well, we have paid it therefore we know how destructive it could be.
> 
> Therefore I don't think Europe would prefer to apply Afghan Jihad Model at their doorstep (Ukraine) so what could be the possible outcome of Ukraine crisis .... ??
> 
> - In my opinion Europe would try to resolve the matter on table but till the resolution will keep supporting mid to low scale military operations by Ukraine arms forces and allied militias & mercenaries from all over the world.
> 
> One thing for sure is that _this crises would give raise to the feelings and political ideologies of Ultra Nationalism based on Racism in Europe_, we have seen this happening within the first few days of this conflict, I don't want to repeat the media reportings and certain actions of far right groups, this thing will again affect the migrants in Europe negatively.
> 
> *IF *Europ chose to defuse conflict in its immediate neighbourhood (which it should) then it will respond to Russia somewhere else may be in Middle East, which mean a _destabilize Syria and possibly Iran as well, Turkey might also face some of the toughest situation on its borders _
> 
> In any case this crisis could affect us negatively irrespective of our stance of favoring to any party of the conflict, so rather to pick one side and make other enemy _*it's better IF we stick with our stance that we respect Sovereignty of every State and all the crisis must be resolved diplomatically.*_
> 
> One thing is sure general public of west will now understand that the so called Rules based International System which West used to claim to establish was not working for the rest of the world, but now it is not even working for them as well.


@Goenitz I remember you tagged me in one of your post related to the current crisis, at that time I excused myself to reply due to lack of knowledge, _I would say still my knowledge related to this conflict is very shallow_ but after reading about the conflict in past 3-4 days I gathered the following thoughts on this subject.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498726781548961809

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## Daylamite Warrior

Lehrasap said:


> You people then deserve Trump, and not the secular humanist Europe, who still oppose the illegal settlements of Israel.
> 
> No one is perfect. Europe also have problems and right wing elements. Nevertheless, Europe has shown much better humanist behaviour as compared to Muslims.
> 
> Trump ideology means not only illegal settlements, but it also means kick out the remaining Palestinians too from the whole land. It also means to kick out all the Muslims from US and Europe, just like Buddhist did with Muslims in Burma. This Trump ideology means even Pakistan kicked out Afghans from their country, why then Europe should give refuge to Muslims and then the citizenship and equal human rights.


The only people who deserved Trump the most were the Americans themselves and how he singlehandedly turned US into a pariah amongst its own allies. Humanism is not part of Islam, we believe that Muslims shouldn't technically be in non-Muslim lands, especially if it is for financial gain and at the expense of their religion. 

Please stop making this just about Trump, all political spectrums have been harsh to the Palestinians and that does not excuse further oppression on Muslims. Put your violins away, this is not our fight and never will be.


----------



## LeGenD

RescueRanger said:


> Foreign envoys urge Pakistan to condemn Russian invasion of Ukraine during emergency UNGA session​- https://www.dawn.com/news/1677704
> 
> @That Guy @LeGenD @The Eagle @Chak Bamu @PDF @A1Kaid @Irfan Baloch @jaibi @Horus @Signalian @HRK
> 
> Thoughts? Treading water moment!


Bro,

My view is in following post:









Once upon a fault line


Few people would’ve noticed the irony in the PM going to the Moscow and the Credit Suisse expose, the ‘Suisse secrets’, featuring former ISI heavyweight General Akhtar Abdur Rahman in its long list of leaked secret accounts of money launderers, drug traffickers, intelligence officials, etc...



defence.pk





Global push and pull game will continue on many counts but Pakistan should aim for BALANCE in global affairs.

Pakistan's official position should be that sovereignty of every country should be respected and good countries such as Russia, Belarus and Ukraine should resolve their issues peacefully.

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## NA71



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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498726781548961809



This is no proof that is presented those boys are Russians.


----------



## Zibago

Lehrasap said:


> Europe also then has to sit back and let Israel kick out all the remaining Palestinians from their lands and occupy the whole land, and then EU simply recognize the Israel right to the whole land.


It has already done that and even has criminalized BDS in many areas so not sure why you are mentioning this

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498724867717410824
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498723256999755777




Is this Russia's moment of "shock and awe"? 

My sympathies are with the innocent civilians who are caught up in this conflict between the West and Russia.


----------



## Paul2

Corax said:


> Fascinating reading this thread.



This is my best PDF experience so far. This is why I am coming here now.



Corax said:


> If this isn't a demonstration of the slow death of the Western world



The death for the West is premature, but it is 1000% the death of US positions in the Western world. *The eyes in EU capitals are on Washington, as much as on Ukraine.*



Corax said:


> While Putin's Russia has the West scrambling around for a response, and potentially escalating the conflict to the rest of Europe, China must be thinking about the potential opportunities to pick up the pieces and vacuum left behind.



All depends on Xi. Xi completely gutted the cabinet, and whatever professional political institutes we had, and he himself is indeed infatuated with Putin. He thinks of him as his blue eyed boy =D.

I know that the newer generation of 1970-1980 lieutenants in the CPC are way more "ambitious and vicious," than people who grew up old red China. Unlike them, they never seen life in a real communist system as adults. They don't have the same "mental inhibitions" which statist communist/marxist mental framework put on the cultural revolution generation elites.

If Xi will side with young lieutenants, then he will lose power, because they will kick out either him or his supporters, and if Xi will do nothing, and keeps his current course, he will lose power too! He already spends near all his free time fighting the fire in his own political camp, while still having to keep an eye on The Uncle Toad. *If you see the list of all people he purged recently, most never been in Jiang's camp.*



Corax said:


> Let the West fight amongst themselves and with Russia, while it galvanises its position and emerges as the new global power, rather like how the US emerged from the ashes of WWII.



My fear is that Xi will squander this once in a lifetime opportunity. Why I think so:

Xi always been a party politician. Party first, everything else, including the world affairs second. He is completely oblivious to the outside world, and is reliant on his advisers to tell apart Putin from Bush. So far they taught him that "Putin good, Bush bad." He is a natural isolationist.
Even if he will make a move, he will act on advisers advice, and trade China's stance (inaction) for concessions from the West on current issues. He will then use this credit to prop up his standing with the party, thus throwing any opportunity to extract gains from this crisis out of the window. The West will eventually be done with Russia, and return to peck at us.
He is afraid of internal enemies, as much as "internal friends." Any group within the party which comes on top of any major discourse is his next enemy. If somebody will come forward with the idea of "Lets Build a Sinocentric New World Order," and, maybe, even does execute on it with some result, Xi will pounce on him.
Xi's goal, and aim in life of preserving the hollow Old Red Order means inaction, and stagnation for the Country.



Corax said:


> Apart from the blatant hypocrisy on show by the West, it demonstrates to all their partner nations that they cannot be trusted.



100000000000000000000000000000%



Corax said:


> This is a massive realignment of global strategic tectonic plates, with the World increasingly split again between the 'West', and a new 'Eastern block' comprising Russia, China, Turkey, Pakistan, and perhaps many more to come. A very interesting time in history to be living in, I must say.



There is the Western Bloc, it never went away after the cold war, but now it may be losing America.

But is there a new Eastern Bloc? There isn't. The Giants are sleeping. China under Xi is turning more, and more isolationist. India... is India, unless Modi dies tomorrow from a heart attack, or some other miracle happens, India will be out of action on the global stage for the next 5-10 years. Turkey, Pakistan, Middle East, sad to say the truth, but these counties hate each other more than communists, or capitalists, they will never work together. A United Africa with its 1000 tribes is more realistic than united Muslim world😕.

My prognosis, it will be the Western Bloc, and nothing else for the lack of credible alternative, with empty area on the map in between Eastern Europe, and all the way to China.

The rest of Asia will actually be worse off, because Americans, and Europe will lose interest in playing games with them, when all their attention will be thrown to their Eastern border.

The instant evaporation of Russian economy will cause not a realignment of global strategic tectonic plates, but disalignment, and dispersion. No more Russian oil, no more Russian military hardware, no more Russian nuclear engineering, no more Russian resources on global markets, no more Russian klepto-money to prop Gaddafis

The new centre of gravity will not be here for the next 10 years, or more... unless 1) something happens in Beijing, 2) something happens in Delhi

As for Americans, they are really screwed both ways seemingly now. Choice 1 — a Dotard, Choice 2 — the Dotard, Choice 3 — there is no such choice. USA's only chance now would be for Democrats to *NOT* nominate Biden for the re-election.

_This war is definitely restarting the gears history, but not the way you think._

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## Zibago

Taimoor Khan said:


> Yes. But I will also understand if Pakistan contribute towards rebalancing the world order.


Last time we did that New York got some naughty visitors so its best if we stay out 



nang2 said:


> Mexicans probably see USA as their colony. Look how many Mexicans come to US and colonize it each year.


Texas is already 40% Hispanic with many being of Mexican origin

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## Zibago

Lehrasap said:


> You people then deserve Trump, and not the secular humanist Europe, who still oppose the illegal settlements of Israel.


Trump was better than secular humanist who launched war on our lands 
Trump actually laid foundations for ending wars

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## Paul2

Corax said:


> Gotta love those Ruskies for throwing a spanner in the works!




Ruskies weren't ones to throw this spanner really.

_The spanner really belongs to this man_





He 100% correctly predicted that Biden coming to the presidency would be a disaster for the America
He 100% correctly predicted that Western world spending 20 years fighting donkey riders in the mountains will draw all its blood, and allow other jackals on the world stage to pounce
He 100% correctly predicted that 20 years of *War on Error* will completely demoralise the West, break cohesion, and make the West to lose its way

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## Meengla

LeGenD said:


> Bro,
> 
> My view is in following post:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once upon a fault line
> 
> 
> Few people would’ve noticed the irony in the PM going to the Moscow and the Credit Suisse expose, the ‘Suisse secrets’, featuring former ISI heavyweight General Akhtar Abdur Rahman in its long list of leaked secret accounts of money launderers, drug traffickers, intelligence officials, etc...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Global push and pull game will continue on many counts but Pakistan should aim for BALANCE in global affairs.
> 
> Pakistan's official position should be that sovereignty of every country should be respected and good countries such as Russia, Belarus and Ukraine should resolve their issues peacefully.



I tend to agree with you most of the time. But like @Taimoor Khan said some pages before: The world needs to be multipolar and if it takes this war then so be it. Let's stop the 'moral relativism' to achieve that goal. I don't care if it is the Russians or the Chinese or the Martians who bring some balance to the world. But I am tired of my adapted homeland America to be constantly involved in wars because of some Neocons and some dozens of corporations who have a vested stake in wars. My Federal and State taxes alone for the last year were $16,000+ and more on Social Security and Medicare and yet I will be paying thousands more. I don't get much of a benefit from my hard work while some damn warmongers associated with the Military Industrial Complex--and yes, they are real-- make bigger houses, buy privates jets and travel in luxury yachts. 
I don't know how one can not see this decades old Ponzi Scheme of the collusion of the Military Industrial Complex, the Mainstream Media, the Big Tech by now?? If the Big Tech-- a supposed bastion of 'liberal' thoughts really wanted to, they would have worked hard to promote the alternate viewpoints--and there is always an alternate viewpoint. On the contrary, I hear that pro-Russia social media outlets are being banned and even the Russian channel Russia Today RT maybe asked to pack its bags in some Western countries. Where do we stop with muzzling?? If we listen to one only one viewpoint, it may assuage our ego, but it may lead us to a very dark path--especially in a conflict like this.

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## Flight of falcon

What is really strange from these videos and pictures is how most of the armour pictured is intact and shows no sign of combat. Perhaps anything that broke down or ran out of fuel was abandoned to keep up with the moving convoys .

Otherwise why are there so few Russian bodies ??? Infact most troop carriers show signs of burning as if they were abandoned and Ukrainians simply just set them on fire. 

Makes me wonder how truthful media is when reporting true losses on both sides . 

It is almost certain that no paratroopers planes were shot down , no one fought on snake island to death and there was no ghost of Kiev…… all the above were creation of Twitter fantasies…..

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## NotSure

So this is the reality of the "Ghost of Kiev": Ukrainian Colonel Oleksandr Oksanchenko, one of the best fighter pilots in the world, was killed in an air battle.

But hey, Russia is losing and lost at least 10^6 warplanes in the last days.

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## nang2

Flight of falcon said:


> What is really strange from these videos and pictures is how most of the armour pictured is intact and shows no sign of combat. Perhaps anything that broke down or ran out of fuel was abandoned to keep up with the moving convoys .
> 
> Otherwise why are there so few Russian bodies ??? Infact most troop carriers show signs of burning as if they were abandoned and Ukrainians simply just set them on fire.
> 
> Makes me wonder how truthful media is when reporting true losses on both sides .
> 
> It is almost certain that no paratroopers planes were shot down , no one fought on snake island to death and there was no ghost of Kiev…… all the above were creation of Twitter fantasies…..


In the era of eyeball economy, brain is taking the backseat.

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## Lehrasap

Zibago said:


> It has already done that and even has criminalized BDS in many areas so not sure why you are mentioning this



Yes, the the humanist left wing is still opposing BDS and illegal settlements only in the name of humanity, and they don't have any personal gain from it. 

But when Pakistan says "Not our War" and we have no gains to make, then it is simply following the the same right wing Trump ideology.


----------



## NA71

Jab tak J10 nahein aa jata sab issi thread mein chipkey rahein gay...... 😁

Record traffic 🚥

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Daylamite Warrior said:


> No brother, as Muslims it is our duty to keep with the believers and stay out that which does not concern us. Did Muslims get involved with Heraclius and Kisra when they were fighting? Speak for yourself, though I choose to keep as disconnected as possible with the self-influcted affairs of the non-believers who dont see us as equals and would rather war was fought in our lands as opposed to their "white, blonde, and blue eyed" land...and as a Muslim I am not sinful for it.




Surah Ar-Rum was revealed to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah (swt) be upon him) when Herculus and Kisr were at war, and was conveyed by the Almighty (swt) that "T*he Romans have been defeated in a nearby land. Yet following their defeat, they will triumph within three to nine years.1 The ˹whole˺ matter rests with Allah before and after ˹victory˺. And on that day the believers will rejoice........*"

The Romans back then were the Eastern Orthodox Christianity. And it is obvious in those revelations that they were much closer to us than the polytheists. So today, Russia represents Eastern Orthodox Christianity. They are, therefore, much closer to the Muslims in terms of a belief than the Satan-worshiping Freemasonry - whose goal is to uproot the Muslims in Al-Shaam and destroy Al-Aqsa Mosque.


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498578237751906306

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## Mujahid Memon



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## Lehrasap

Daylamite Warrior said:


> The only people who deserved Trump the most were the Americans themselves and how he singlehandedly turned US into a pariah amongst its own allies. *Humanism is not part of Islam,*


Are you sure about it?

This means, without humanity, when the Britishers captured the Islamic countries, then they should have raped all the Muslim women and made them slaves. 

Are you really ready for a world without humanity?

What if Chinese government start raping the Chinese Muslim women, and slaughtering all the Muslim men? 

Does this mean, Burmese were also right in doing the genocide of Rohingya Muslims and raping their girls? 




Daylamite Warrior said:


> we believe that Muslims shouldn't technically be in non-Muslim lands, especially if it is for financial gain and at the expense of their religion.


I don't even know how to answer it. 

Is it the fault of humanist Europe to give refuge to the Muslims and to give them the equal human rights? 

Do you want to say that Europe has to kick out all the Muslims, as Burmese army did with the Rohingya Muslims, or BJP of India wants to do with the Indian Muslims? 



Daylamite Warrior said:


> Please stop making this just about Trump, all political spectrums have been harsh to the Palestinians and that does not excuse further oppression on Muslims. Put your violins away, this is not our fight and never will be.



No one is perfect, but the humanist left Wing of Europe at least try its best for justice and equality, regardless of their personal gains. 

But when you say that it is not Pakistan's war while we don't have personal gain in it, then you are following only the right-wing non-humanist ideology.


----------



## Wergeland 2.0

My post from earlier today has been deleted by mod. Tbh i agree with this desicion.

I admit i was harsh against Ukraine and that my post probably sounded as a character assasination of the Ukrainian people, which of course it wasnt meant as. But i bare responsibility for not making myself more clear.

Still i want to make clear that i hate Nazis and racist so much that it triggers all defensive fibers in my body. As a muslim i see it as my religious duty to fight racism and nazism in all it forms.
Also my upbringing and personal experiences with nazis and racists has made me a ardent opponent of this ideology.

I know that not all Ukranians or Poles are racists, most are probably normal decent human beings. Still i wanna see Azov battalian defeated and disbanded, so that its no more threat for muslims, jews or any people of color.

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## Taimoor Khan

Zibago said:


> Last time we did that New York got some naughty visitors so its best if we stay out




NY has nothing to do with us.

What we did last time to make Yanks and its partners in Europe the king makers of world affairs, and all we got in return is rotten egg on our face. LOL

I am sure lessons learned from that. Unipolar world is dangerous and nasty place, we out of all nations should know that. The unipolar crap needs to be undone for the sake of humanity.

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## PanzerKiel

NotSure said:


> So this is the reality of the "Ghost of Kiev": Ukrainian Colonel Oleksandr Oksanchenko, one of the best fighter pilots in the world, was killed in an air battle.
> 
> But hey, Russia is losing and lost at least 10^6 warplanes in the last days.


With his death, now he has become a real ghost... eerie ...

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## Paul2

Big_bud said:


> Western hypocracy. West would cause its own downfall.



I would instantly add a parallel to WW2, except it's now even worse now for Europe.

During WW2, British military was gigantic, and towering on the paper... because it had millions of Indian troops. It was of course a very sorry scene when Churchill found out that most of them are busy policing India from revolting. In the end, he lost both India, and was 5 minutes away from losing Britain until Hitler attacked USSR.

This is why the appearance of Bose sent chill down their spine, and why wartime censorship in India was cranked to maximum.

Now, Europe is much a much more aged society with a lot of whining zombie elderly leftie electorate, which will sabotage any vote for reform.

Europe will need manpower, but it will not get it because:

Because nazis will block it on the right, and lefties will block it on the left ("they will eat our benefits!")
Few Arabs, Turks, and Africans will go to Europe with prospect of having to defend those bastards during war.

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## kingQamaR

alimobin memon said:


> its been only 5 days ...





Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Surah Ar-Rum was revealed to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah (swt) be upon him) when Herculus and Kisr were at war, and was conveyed by the Almighty (swt) that "T*he Romans have been defeated in a nearby land. Yet following their defeat, they will triumph within three to nine years.1 The ˹whole˺ matter rests with Allah before and after ˹victory˺. And on that day the believers will rejoice........*"
> 
> The Romans back then were the Eastern Orthodox Christianity. And it is obvious in those revelations that they were much closer to us than the polytheists. So today, Russia represents Eastern Orthodox Christianity. They are, therefore, much closer to the Muslims in terms of a belief than the Satan-worshiping Freemasonry - whose goal is to uproot the Muslims in Al-Shaam and destroy Al-Aqsa Mosque.



Russians Orthodox Christianity army invaded Syrian Moslem state killed everyone there destroyed there towns and cities and your giving us a good positive view on Russians belonging a *Abrahamic religions. *


----------



## Lehrasap

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Surah Ar-Rum was revealed to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah (swt) be upon him) when Herculus and Kisr were at war, and was conveyed by the Almighty (swt) that "T*he Romans have been defeated in a nearby land. Yet following their defeat, they will triumph within three to nine years.1 The ˹whole˺ matter rests with Allah before and after ˹victory˺. And on that day the believers will rejoice........*"
> 
> The Romans back then were the Eastern Orthodox Christianity. And it is obvious in those revelations that they were much closer to us than the polytheists. So today, Russia represents Eastern Orthodox Christianity. They are, therefore, much closer to the Muslims in terms of a belief than the Satan-worshiping Freemasonry - whose goal is to uproot the Muslims in Al-Shaam and destroy Al-Aqsa Mosque.



A very bad argument. 

Humanist Europe is neither Satan-Worshippers nor evil, and thus millions of Muslims try their best to immigrate to Europe and enjoy the equal civil rights. 

On one side you bring religion in your life and support orthodox Christians, but when it does not suit you, then you exclude the religion from your life, and hug the atheist Chinese and sit in their lap. 

You close your eyes who this orthodox Russia killed the Chechens and how it was supporting the killing of Muslim Albanians. And it was the Evil West who rescued the Muslim Albania. 

And I believe that Christian US is even more religious than Russia. 

You don't deserve left wing democrats, but perhaps you deserve the religious right wing fanatic Christians, in the leadership of Trump.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498737356739727361

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498725407033602053


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498725413815734272

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498717854736302084


----------



## QWECXZ

Mujahid Memon said:


> View attachment 819912


At this time of darkness, it is so refreshing and pleasant to see that the peace loving people of Israel, who by the way have never committed atrocities against the citizens of their democratic country based on religion or ethnicity, are condemning the occupation of Ukraine by the evil Russians. It just shows how peaceful and wonderful these righteous settlers are.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498711891161620487

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## LeGenD

R Wing said:


> I'm so glad people are waking up to all these double standards. It astounds me that the liberal elite in many countries, including Muslim countries, still fall for Western tropes.


WE should not fall for Russian tropes either.

WE should be evidence-driven, and try to fact-check politically-motivated narratives of all parties.

See below.



QWECXZ said:


> You got to love Zelensky's Neo-Nazi gang
> 
> View attachment 819900
> 
> 
> Such a fine group of gentlemen. ISIS is bad when it attacks Europe, it's good when it attacks Syria. Al-Qaeda is good when they fight against the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, they're bad when they attack the United States. Nazism is bad when they kill Jews, it's good when they kill Russians and Muslims. I think you get the idea.


Neo-Nazim is a matter of concern (agreed) but the narrative surrounding it is overblown:

_However, as per Al Jazeera, it only has 900 members, so it's still considered a fringe element in the army. It was founded eight years ago by Andriy Biletsky from the ultra-nationalist Patriot of Ukraine gang and the neo-Nazi Social National Assembly group; both groups were accused of engaging in neo-Nazi ideals, and the latter is known to have attacked minority groups in Ukraine._









Ukraine: Inside The Neo-Nazi Azov Battalion


A far-right 'neo-Nazi' battalion has joined Ukrainian troops in their fight against invading Russian forces.




www.unilad.co.uk





Details in following link:









Pro-Kremlin fakery and manipulation: What to make of Russian claims of Ukraine's alleged "genocide", Fascism and Nazism? - Romea.cz


zpravodajský server Romea.cz




www.romea.cz





- - - - -

What about (humanitarian) Russian Wagner group?

_The Wagner Group, a private military company backed by Kremlin, has built a reputation for its brutality. In 2019, a disturbing video surfaced showing four Russian-speaking men in military fatigues surrounding a man lying on the ground. They proceeded to break his legs with a sledgehammer, crushed his chest, and hacked off his hands, his head, before setting the corpse on fire. The victim was identified as Hamadi Bouta, a deserter from the Syrian army. He was tortured to death by the Wagner group, whose mercenaries are now said to be tasked with killing President Zelenskyy._









The horrifying truth behind the Wagner Group sent to Ukraine to hunt Zelenskyy


The death squad has now been spotted in Ukraine, where Zelenskyy is said to be 'target number one' on their kill list, while his family is 'target number two'




meaww.com





That is but one example of how Russian Wagner group handles its subjects.

- - - - -

The Al-Qaeda Network was founded by Osama Bin Laden in 1988.

USA confronted and dismantled Al-Qaeda Network in the Af-Pak region with support of Pakistan after 9/11. There is ample information about this development in following book:









In the Line of Fire


It is almost unprecedented for a head of state to publish a memoir while still in office. But Pervez Musharraf is no ordinary head of state. As President of Pakistan since 1999, his is one of the most dangerous jobs in the world, and he continues to play a crucial role in the global war on...



books.google.com.pk





- - - - -

NATO shattered ISIS movement in Syria (Operation Inherent Resolve)





__





Operation Inherent Resolve - American COIN operations against ISIS worldwide


Introduction In the summer of 2014, a new terrorist group which had risen during the chaos of the Syrian Civil War attacked across the Syrian-Iraqi borders and seized large swaths of Iraqi territory in the Euphrates River Valley and northern Iraq. Several Iraqi towns fell to the invaders, who...



defence.pk













Mapping the kinetic aspect of the Operation Inherent Resolve to defeat ISIL (Updated)


"At its peak, IS ruled over 88,000 sq km (34,000 sq miles) stretching across the Iraq-Syria border." - BBC https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-47210891 https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/timeline-the-rise-spread-and-fall-the-islamic-state ------ OPERATION INHERENT RESOLVE...



defence.pk





- - - - -

FORUM RULES REMINDER

*Propaganda*

_Sometimes the news sources are being used to spread propaganda: weaponized information aimed at achieving a certain political goal. Usually this is to incriminate hatred amongst groups of people or vilify them. PDF does not believe in aiding the spread of propaganda that does not mean that PDF is closed to discussions about such pieces. When you are to post such pieces of information for the sake of discussion or clarification, kindly clearly state so in your post otherwise it would be treated as aiding the spread of propaganda and would result in penalization.

*Indoctrination*

Sharing of information garnered at indoctrination of the public are not allowed. That includes political / religious / ethnic indoctrination are not allowed at PDF and would be penalized._

- - - - -

Please stay on topic.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498745704566730765

Reactions: Like Like:
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## sur

Russian FM says that so-called West had been blind, even accomplice, to the crimes committed by Ukraine:








vostok said:


> It is a payback for 8 years of constant shelling of Donbass people.


----------



## Solidify

Russia Ukraine Conflict February 28 Update


----------



## QWECXZ

LeGenD said:


> Neo-Nazim is a matter of concern (agreed) but the narrative surrounding it is overblown:
> 
> _However, as per Al Jazeera, it only has 900 members, so it's still considered a fringe element in the army. It was founded eight years ago by Andriy Biletsky from the ultra-nationalist Patriot of Ukraine gang and the neo-Nazi Social National Assembly group; both groups were accused of engaging in neo-Nazi ideals, and the latter is known to have attacked minority groups in Ukraine._


And it doesn't bother you that the Ukrainians do not let Indians and Africans to get on the trains and escape the war zones?

Would you blame that on just 900 people as well?

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## RescueRanger

LeGenD said:


> WE should not fall for Russian tropes either.
> 
> WE should be evidence-driven, and try to fact-check politically-motivated narratives of all parties.
> 
> See below.
> 
> 
> Neo-Nazim is a matter of concern (agreed) but the narrative surrounding it is overblown:
> 
> _However, as per Al Jazeera, it only has 900 members, so it's still considered a fringe element in the army. It was founded eight years ago by Andriy Biletsky from the ultra-nationalist Patriot of Ukraine gang and the neo-Nazi Social National Assembly group; both groups were accused of engaging in neo-Nazi ideals, and the latter is known to have attacked minority groups in Ukraine._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine: Inside The Neo-Nazi Azov Battalion
> 
> 
> A far-right 'neo-Nazi' battalion has joined Ukrainian troops in their fight against invading Russian forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.unilad.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Details in following link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pro-Kremlin fakery and manipulation: What to make of Russian claims of Ukraine's alleged "genocide", Fascism and Nazism? - Romea.cz
> 
> 
> zpravodajský server Romea.cz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.romea.cz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - - - - -
> 
> What about (humanitarian) Russian Wagner group?
> 
> _The Wagner Group, a private military company backed by Kremlin, has built a reputation for its brutality. In 2019, a disturbing video surfaced showing four Russian-speaking men in military fatigues surrounding a man lying on the ground. They proceeded to break his legs with a sledgehammer, crushed his chest, and hacked off his hands, his head, before setting the corpse on fire. The victim was identified as Hamadi Bouta, a deserter from the Syrian army. He was tortured to death by the Wagner group, whose mercenaries are now said to be tasked with killing President Zelenskyy._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The horrifying truth behind the Wagner Group sent to Ukraine to hunt Zelenskyy
> 
> 
> The death squad has now been spotted in Ukraine, where Zelenskyy is said to be 'target number one' on their kill list, while his family is 'target number two'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> meaww.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is but one example of how Russian Wagner group handles its subjects.
> 
> - - - - -
> 
> The Al-Qaeda Network was founded by Osama Bin Laden in 1988.
> 
> USA confronted and dismantled Al-Qaeda Network in the Af-Pak region with support of Pakistan after 9/11. There is ample information about this development in following book:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the Line of Fire
> 
> 
> It is almost unprecedented for a head of state to publish a memoir while still in office. But Pervez Musharraf is no ordinary head of state. As President of Pakistan since 1999, his is one of the most dangerous jobs in the world, and he continues to play a crucial role in the global war on...
> 
> 
> 
> books.google.com.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - - - - -
> 
> NATO shattered ISIS movement in Syria (Operation Inherent Resolve)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Operation Inherent Resolve - American COIN operations against ISIS worldwide
> 
> 
> Introduction In the summer of 2014, a new terrorist group which had risen during the chaos of the Syrian Civil War attacked across the Syrian-Iraqi borders and seized large swaths of Iraqi territory in the Euphrates River Valley and northern Iraq. Several Iraqi towns fell to the invaders, who...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mapping the kinetic aspect of the Operation Inherent Resolve to defeat ISIL (Updated)
> 
> 
> "At its peak, IS ruled over 88,000 sq km (34,000 sq miles) stretching across the Iraq-Syria border." - BBC https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-47210891 https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/timeline-the-rise-spread-and-fall-the-islamic-state ------ OPERATION INHERENT RESOLVE...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - - - - -
> 
> FORUM RULES REMINDER
> 
> *Propaganda*
> 
> _Sometimes the news sources are being used to spread propaganda: weaponized information aimed at achieving a certain political goal. Usually this is to incriminate hatred amongst groups of people or vilify them. PDF does not believe in aiding the spread of propaganda that does not mean that PDF is closed to discussions about such pieces. When you are to post such pieces of information for the sake of discussion or clarification, kindly clearly state so in your post otherwise it would be treated as aiding the spread of propaganda and would result in penalization.
> 
> *Indoctrination*
> 
> Sharing of information garnered at indoctrination of the public are not allowed. That includes political / religious / ethnic indoctrination are not allowed at PDF and would be penalized._
> 
> - - - - -
> 
> Please stay on topic.


Second this. 👍👏

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## Wergeland 2.0

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498717854736302084



These are normal military responses in the harsh situation Russia currently faces. When we hear rumors of NATO countries being ready to supply advanced hardware like fighter jet, the Russians are forced to make strategic defensive countermeasures.

Ukraine as future NATO member is a existential threat to Russia. OTOH Ukraine NOT becoming a NATO member is NOT a existential threat for NATO members.

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## LeGenD

QWECXZ said:


> And it doesn't bother you that the Ukrainians do not let Indians and Africans to get on the train and escape the war zones?
> 
> Would you blame that on just 900 people as well?


That is unfortunate and I do not condone such actions in person. The problem is underlined below:

_The students, using Twitter and other social media platforms, have been pleading with their governments for help to escape the war-hit nation. The students say they have been prevented from crossing to Poland due to a “Ukrainians first” policy._









African students in the Ukraine plead for help as Poland says 'Ukrainians first' - New York Amsterdam News


Thousands of African students are among the tens of thousands of Ukrainians seeking shelter from a barrage of Russian airstrikes against its southern neighbor in what has been called an unprovoked and unjustified effort to remove and replace the Ukrainian government by the president of Russia.




amsterdamnews.com





I am not sure what the Ukrainian First Policy is about.

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## nang2

LeGenD said:


> I am not sure what the Ukrainian First Policy is about.


It is about Ukrainian first, everyone else second. See, I can read English.

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## Wergeland 2.0

How many mods on PDF are from Russia?
And how many are Americans?

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## Khanate

*NED in Ukraine... 🤔*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498349547482984449
*CIA in Ukraine... 🤔*

The CIA May Be Breeding Nazi Terror in Ukraine​

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## QWECXZ

LeGenD said:


> That is unfortunate and I do not condone such actions in person. The problem is underlined below:
> 
> _The students, using Twitter and other social media platforms, have been pleading with their governments for help to escape the war-hit nation. The students say they have been prevented from crossing to Poland due to a “Ukrainians first” policy._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> African students in the Ukraine plead for help as Poland says 'Ukrainians first' - New York Amsterdam News
> 
> 
> Thousands of African students are among the tens of thousands of Ukrainians seeking shelter from a barrage of Russian airstrikes against its southern neighbor in what has been called an unprovoked and unjustified effort to remove and replace the Ukrainian government by the president of Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amsterdamnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not sure what the Ukrainian First Policy is about.


Well, it is rather a European people first policy.
Immigrants of European origin in Ukraine have not faced a similar issue.
They are probably not even asked to prove that they're Ukrainian.

And I'm not going to mention the obvious that even the Ukrainian First policy is wrong as well. Ensuring the safety of all foreigners in Ukraine is an obligation of Ukraine as a state, which it has failed to observe repeatedly by discriminatory laws like that since the beginning of the conflict.

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## RescueRanger

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> How many mods on PDF are from Russia?
> And how many are Americans?


We had a Ukrainian / Russian mod but he’s retired @vostok 

We have international mods and analysts. Why do you ask?

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## That Guy

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498718014925160452
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498192516985802754


And so, Russia turning into a Chinese puppet state begins. Lol

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## RescueRanger

Khanate said:


> *NED in Ukraine... 🤔*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498349547482984449
> *CIA in Ukraine... 🤔*
> 
> The CIA May Be Breeding Nazi Terror in Ukraine​


It’s basically white Taliban. That old Teutonic Knight mentality.

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## Oom

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498745704566730765


Ukrainians are having a field day with Russian equipment. 

Various videos showing Russian soldiers abandoning equipment speaks as to their professionalism and discipline. 

By the way I remember a while back some members were advocating that Pakistan also adopts the conscription army model. Than this is what you get basically young men just entering adulthood, who lack the psychic of professional soldier (ps I know that the Russian army is a mix, I’m talking about all those kids surrendering)


----------



## LeGenD

nang2 said:


> It is about Ukrainian first, everyone else second. See, I can read English.


Poland is welcoming all nationalities:

_Szczerski said people of some 125 nationalities had been admitted to Poland on Monday morning from Ukraine, including Ukrainian, Uzbek, Nigerian, Indian, Moroccan, Pakistani, Afghan, Belarussian, Algerian and more. Overall, he said, 300,000 people have arrived during the crisis._









Europe welcomes Ukrainian refugees — others, less so


As more people scrambled to flee Ukraine, several reports emerged of non-white residents, including Nigerians, Indians and Lebanese, getting stuck at borders.




www.whas11.com







QWECXZ said:


> Well, it is rather a European people first policy.
> Immigrants of European origin in Ukraine have not faced a similar issue.
> They are probably not even asked to prove that they're Ukrainian.
> 
> And I'm not going to mention the obvious that even the Ukrainian First policy is wrong as well. Ensuring the safety of all foreigners in Ukraine is an obligation of Ukraine as a state, which it has failed to observe repeatedly by discriminatory laws like that since the beginning of the conflict.


See above.

All are being allowed to cross into Poland in fact.

Problems might have occurred in some locations and situations. The entire country (Ukraine) is in PANIC MODE due to war; there will be lapses in management and general mishaps in this situation. MSM blows things out of proportion as usual.


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## _Nabil_

vizier said:


> Just like Turkey and Iran, Pakistan has to pursue a balance policy.


Huh, Turkey is barking against the Russian invasion more than many European countries and that's from day 1,....

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## RescueRanger

million dollar tweet:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498663302435639299

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## _Nabil_

vizier said:


> Just like Turkey and Iran, Pakistan has to pursue a balance policy.


Huh, Turkey is barking against the Russian invasion more than many European countries and that's from day 1,....


----------



## Wergeland 2.0

RescueRanger said:


> We had a Ukrainian / Russian mod but he’s retired @vostok
> 
> We have international mods and analysts. Why do you ask?



I ask because i have observed mods and Think Thank Analysts are americans or located in America. Naturally some bias is expected.

But overally i think mods have been relatively objective. Which is good.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498746528516747271

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498745704566730765

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498749061553340421

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498746560204754944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498750574581452802

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498749907800317954https://twitter.com/CasusBellii/status/1498734577166209026

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## nang2

LeGenD said:


> Poland is welcoming all nationalities:
> 
> _Szczerski said people of some 125 nationalities had been admitted to Poland on Monday morning from Ukraine, including Ukrainian, Uzbek, Nigerian, Indian, Moroccan, Pakistani, Afghan, Belarussian, Algerian and more. Overall, he said, 300,000 people have arrived during the crisis._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Europe welcomes Ukrainian refugees — others, less so
> 
> 
> As more people scrambled to flee Ukraine, several reports emerged of non-white residents, including Nigerians, Indians and Lebanese, getting stuck at borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.whas11.com


I didn't use the word "stop", did I? I said "second". Do you know what "second" means? If someone is the first and you are the second in a line, he gets what he wants before you get it.

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## vizier

_Nabil_ said:


> Huh, Turkey is barking against the Russian invasion more than many European countries and that's from day 1,....


I said we have to ideally. We can make mistakes through the road but I hope we fix them. At least no sanctions and the straits policy is not offending any party.

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## RescueRanger

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> I ask because i have observed mods and Think Thank Analysts are americans or located in America. Naturally some bias is expected.
> 
> But overally i think mods have been relatively objective. Which is good.


Thank you for your feedback if you have any suggestions or complaints use the GHQ feature as the admins here are very proactive.

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## patero

That Guy said:


> I certainly ain't.
> 
> *It's a white people war, I'm just glad they aren't killing brown people.*
> 
> People taking sides here would be amusing, if it weren't for the fact that brown people are once again taking sides in a war that has nothing to do with them.
> 
> The chains of mental-slavery are hard to break, it seems.
> 
> @SQ8 @LeGenD @RescueRanger


I'm half brown and half white (does that make me biege?). I'm of two minds about this statement, the idealist in me says we should respect all people equally and not take any pleasure in the death and suffering inflicted on any side. But the realist in me acknowledges the attitudes that prevail in western society that values 'white' lives more than brown. So I understand your thoughts on the matter, even if I don't entirely agree with them.


----------



## Foinikas

Should we have a separate thread for Ukrainian fake news?

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## RescueRanger

patero said:


> I'm half brown and half white (does that make me biege?). I'm of two minds about this statement, the idealist in me says we should respect all people equally and not take any pleasure in the death and suffering inflicted on any side. But the realist in me acknowledges the attitudes that prevail in western society that values 'white' lives more than brown. So I understand your thoughts on the matter, even if I don't entirely agree with them.


For me it’s not so much skin colour but more about geography.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498751709132296195

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498752136078888963


----------



## gambit

Arbiter said:


> What people like you don't seem to understand is how Russia actually is waging this war. We have seen so many wars from USA that we are used to the American way of warfare, which is indiscriminate bombing and destruction of military and civilian infrastructure.
> 
> The fact that internet, mobile services, water, sewage, electricity etc haven't been targeted yet is proof of that. Usually in a war these are destroyed to disrupt communication, create panic and lower the morale. And if Russia wanted to they could easily have done this but so far they haven't. They are deliberately avoiding to destroy as much civilian infrastructure as possible. Now Russia might resort to that if it prolongs too much but so far they haven't. That's a further indication that the advancement they have made are within their planning or at least that they aren't desperate yet to do such kind of destruction.


Since am Air Force, F-111 Cold War then F-16 Desert Storm, am going to give you an air force perspective.

Just because you think and perceive some attacks as indiscriminate that does not mean they were. Can the USAF truly go indiscriminate? Yes, but why would we? We do not need 'indiscriminate' to induce fear into enemy forces, we certainly did not in Desert Storm. Even with the manufacturing might of the US, and we hauled everything we needed from the Western Hemisphere, any air commander who went truly indiscriminate would lose his stars or eagles. Even if we trapped a division of enemy troops into an area with no civilians, to go truly 'indiscriminate' would still be stupid and wasteful. If we can drop 10 bombs into a specific point in that trap to induce surrender why the hell would we drop 1000 bombs indiscriminately when 10 bombs did the job?

As far as spinning the Russian performance so far...Good job...But...

Have you consider the possibility that the reason why Russia have not done any 'shock and awe' is because they cannot, not because they would not? When you split your invasion plan three-ways, so are your logistic lines: 3 ways. Then once the war is underway, you let your air commanders allocate how each conduct his part of the invasion plan. You do not, or should not, micro manage.

What if -- just what if -- there were no Russian equivalent of 'shock and awe' is because each air commander do not have sufficient munition to create the initial 'shock and awe' effect and still have enough to conduct the rest of the war?​​What if -- just what if -- each air commander does have sufficient munition to create three versions of 'shock and awe' but Poutine underestimated Ukrainian resistance and micro managed his air commanders to restrain themselves?​
Both versions of 'what if' constitute strategic errors that ended with what the world is seeing today -- that the Russian military was flawed and inefficient in its execution of the war. You do not see 'indiscriminate' bombing, like the American way of war, so that mean the Russian military is more humane? Damn...!!! Talk about swallowing propaganda.

Edit:

Let us say that I was allocated 1000 bombs to conduct my air campaign. I believe I need 100 bombs to attack a specific target. So I would add %10 or maybe even %25 overhead just to cover unexpected events, as all wars always have. But even so, I would still do everything I can to avoid using all 100 bombs plus overhead. I would call on satellite imagery. If possible, I would assign special ops to give me real time 'eyes on ground' intelligence. I might just even conduct psyops to induce uncertainty into the enemy. In the end I might just need to use 100 bombs plus overhead or maybe just 90 bombs. But I would not use all 1000 bombs in inventory just because I can afford to.

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## RescueRanger

Foinikas said:


> Should we have a separate thread for Ukrainian fake news?


If you feel any post doesn’t comply with forum rules report it


----------



## nang2

patero said:


> I'm half brown and half white (does that make me biege?). I'm of two minds about this statement, the idealist in me says we should respect all people equally and not take any pleasure in the death and suffering inflicted on any side. But the realist in me acknowledges the attitudes that prevail in western society that values 'white' lives more than brown. So I understand your thoughts on the matter, even if I don't entirely agree with them.


No, my builder told me that it is off-white and the paint bucket actually says "kitten white". No sure what it means but I really like it. It is on all my walls.


----------



## Foinikas

RescueRanger said:


> If you feel any post doesn’t comply with forum rules report it


No no I'm talking about posting posts from other sources that have been debunked

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## nang2

Foinikas said:


> Should we have a separate thread for Ukrainian fake news?


No, as long as they are not duplicates. Fake news are fine. Repeating fake news are not.


----------



## LeGenD

nang2 said:


> I didn't use the word "stop", did I? I said "second". Do you know what "second" means? If someone is the first and you are the second in a line, he gets what he wants before you get it.


I get you but this is semantics at the moment. Polish authorities have clarified that all nationalities are being allowed to cross into Poland. Problems might have occurred in some locations and situations. The entire country (Ukraine) is in PANIC MODE due to war; there will be lapses in management and general mishaps in this situation. MSM blows things out of proportion as usual. Let us move on.

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## KaiserX

The Russians are taking a pounding of epic proportions. This is a pure miscaculation. Idk what Putin was thinking.

Pakistan has a lot to learn and take note of. Dont forget India operates thousands of t72/t90/bmp ifvs prob north of 4500. As ive stated many times on this forum, short range Manpads will take out far more air targets than long range sams which has been confirmed (NATO doctrine since cold war)

We should double down on investment in drones, fighter jets, manpads, fire and forget anti tank missiles, and short range cruise missiles.

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## Pakistan Space Agency

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> Ukraine as future NATO member is a existential threat to Russia. OTOH Ukraine NOT becoming a NATO member is NOT a existential threat for NATO members.


One more:

Ukraine NOT becoming a NATO member is now fighting for its very own existence against Russia.


----------



## LeGenD

M. Sarmad said:


> So, these rules obviously do not apply to the mods .. Otherwise you would've been the first one to be banned here for churning out US/NATO propaganda 24/7 !!
> 
> On a serious note, more than 500 pages of discussion and more than 80% of the posts are outright lies and pro NATO/US propaganda, as you said: "_weaponized information aimed at achieving a certain political goal"_ .. How many such posts have you deleted so far? Not even a single one I believe. You only delete those posts that are anti-NATO/US.
> 
> If PDF has a policy of promoting US narrative only then please make it clear to everyone here. Can post a lot of links proving you wrong on NATO's role in this war but no point wasting energy and time as they are going to be marked 'off topic' and deleted by you anyways


I am setting records straight in this discussion by addressing half-truths (and Fake News) with well-documented information and evidences on hand in line with Forum Rules. I am also removing off-topic posts when I notice them. I have also penalized members of different nationality in this thread including an Israeli member for violating Forum Rules. This is MODERATING behavior in the nutshell.

You are found to be TROLLING as well. 1st Strike issued.

Learn to address arguments and respect Forum Rules.

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## Oublious

It was the work of Ukraine people..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498745704566730765

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## _Nabil_

LeGenD said:


> I am not sure what the Ukrainian First Policy is about.


It's obvious, withe man first, European, Christian, pure genes,......


Many incident reported against African, Indians,... students here
why unsure ???


----------



## Taimoor Khan

Meengla said:


> I tend to agree with you most of the time. But like @Taimoor Khan said some pages before: The world needs to be multipolar and if it takes this war then so be it. Let's stop the 'moral relativism' to achieve that goal. I don't care if it is the Russians or the Chinese or the Martians who bring some balance to the world. But I am tired of my adapted homeland America to be constantly involved in wars because of some Neocons and some dozens of corporations who have a vested stake in wars. My Federal and State taxes alone for the last year were $16,000+ and more on Social Security and Medicare and yet I will be paying thousands more. I don't get much of a benefit from my hard work while some damn warmongers associated with the Military Industrial Complex--and yes, they are real-- make bigger houses, buy privates jets and travel in luxury yachts.
> I don't know how one can not see this decades old Ponzi Scheme of the collusion of the Military Industrial Complex, the Mainstream Media, the Big Tech by now?? If the Big Tech-- a supposed bastion of 'liberal' thoughts really wanted to, they would have worked hard to promote the alternate viewpoints--and there is always an alternate viewpoint. On the contrary, I hear that pro-Russia social media outlets are being banned and even the Russian channel Russia Today RT maybe asked to pack its bags in some Western countries. Where do we stop with muzzling?? If we listen to one only one viewpoint, it may assuage our ego, but it may lead us to a very dark path--especially in a conflict like this.




Apart from "Pakistan punching above its weight" brigade and usual suspects, most of the Pakistanis would agree that we played a major role in making world unipolar. To the horror of the world, and we lived the nightmare ourselves. At the very least, we should have moral obligation to accept the sin and look for ways to undo it. Not suggesting to do go full retard mode, nothing sort of what happened to USSR, but yes, Multipolar world is not just an option, its an absolute must. Specially for the developing world. 

What we need is rebalancing, where centripetal and centrifugal forces are cancelling each other out so the world order is at peace. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupt absolutely. We don't want to replace a hegemon with another.

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## Gripen9

mshan44 said:


> *one of the funniest sanctions on **Russia*
> 
> View attachment 819866


That will teach him!


----------



## LeGenD

_Nabil_ said:


> It's obvious, withe man first, European, Christian, pure genes,......
> 
> 
> Many incident reported against African, Indians,... students here
> why unsure ???


Covered.









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


NED in Ukraine... 🤔 CIA in Ukraine... 🤔 The CIA May Be Breeding Nazi Terror in Ukraine It’s basically white Taliban. That old Teutonic Knight mentality.



defence.pk


----------



## Foinikas

nang2 said:


> No, as long as they are not duplicates. Fake news are fine. Repeating fake news are not.


For example

A friend sent me this







I did a reverse image search

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## Gripen9

RescueRanger said:


> Foreign envoys urge Pakistan to condemn Russian invasion of Ukraine during emergency UNGA session​- https://www.dawn.com/news/1677704
> 
> @That Guy @LeGenD @The Eagle @Chak Bamu @PDF @A1Kaid @Irfan Baloch @jaibi @Horus @Signalian @HRK
> 
> Thoughts? Treading water moment!


Pakistan should ask these European envoys to first get India onboard. We are nobodys on the International Stage.
Then they should commit to raising the Kashmiri cause in UN first, then we'll get onboard the RusCondemnation train.

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## Bearbearbot

Russian losses up to 28th February is about 300 (russian military & donetsk/Lugansk militia combined)
Source:








Proxy war: Russia v EU-NATO and Ukraine (Live)


Proxy war: Russia v EU-NATO and Ukraine (Live) #TheDuran #TheDuranLive




rumble.com




Timestamp: 1:14:00


----------



## Foinikas

I'm starting to think the Ghost of Kiev is that Indian pilot with the '70s pornstar moustache.

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## sur

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498750574581452802



I see houses getting hit. They are missing the vehicles just by a little and hitting the houses.
Military vehicles are in residential areas and civilians are paying the price of the war.

Center of explosions seems to be houses:









Gripen9 said:


> Pakistan should ask these European envoys to first get India onboard. We are nobodys on the International Stage.
> Then* they should commit to raising the Kashmiri cause in UN first*, then we'll get onboard the RusCondemnation train.



They are easy liars (concocted this term). Will be quick to make false promises about Kashmir etc., only to have multiple excuses not to keep them later. Even if they gave it in writing.

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## Wergeland 2.0

Pakistan Space Agency said:


> One more:
> 
> Ukraine NOT becoming a NATO member is now fighting for its very own existence against Russia.



Important detail is missing here: Zelensky regime was determined to make Ukraine a NATO member, and that too very urgently, with americans showing full support for his aspirations. Also Zelensky is overwhelmingly anti-Russian. Which makes it even more hostile for its immidiate nuclear armed neighbor.

If Ukraine and NATO had not pushed for its membership, it would have remained a independent country, but probably with a degree of Russian influence. This means Ukraine also would be open for western influence as it has been since end of cold war. Something proven by it participating in Iraq War.

With NATO membership out of question it would stay a buffer state with a somewhat balanced policy in regards to both Russia and NATO, something Russia could probably accept and live with. By it becoming a NATO member, the balance of power would be havily tilted toward a existential threat to Russia, therefore Russian preemptive invasion was inevtable from Russian POV.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498757965658136577

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## _Nabil_

Foinikas said:


> Should we have a separate thread for Ukrainian fake news?


If we open a thread for debunked fake news, it will be probably almost the size of this Thread.

It's the tendency now, just let it be ....

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## Paul2

gambit said:


> Since am Air Force, F-111 Cold War then F-16 Desert Storm, am going to give you an air force perspective.
> 
> Just because you think and perceive some attacks as indiscriminate that does not mean they were. Can the USAF truly go indiscriminate? Yes, but why would we? We do not need 'indiscriminate' to induce fear into enemy forces, we certainly did not in Desert Storm. Even with the manufacturing might of the US, and we hauled everything we needed from the Western Hemisphere, any air commander who went truly indiscriminate would lose his stars or eagles. Even if we trapped a division of enemy troops into an area with no civilians, to go truly 'indiscriminate' would still be stupid and wasteful. If we can drop 10 bombs into a specific point in that trap to induce surrender why the hell would we drop 1000 bombs indiscriminately when 10 bombs did the job?
> 
> As far as spinning the Russian performance so far...Good job...But...
> 
> Have you consider the possibility that the reason why Russia have not done any 'shock and awe' is because they cannot, not because they would not? When you split your invasion plan three-ways, so are your logistic lines: 3 ways. Then once the war is underway, you let your air commanders allocate how each conduct his part of the invasion plan. You do not, or should not, micro manage.
> 
> What if -- just what if -- there were no Russian equivalent of 'shock and awe' is because each air commander do not have sufficient munition to create the initial 'shock and awe' effect and still have enough to conduct the rest of the war?​​What if -- just what if -- each air commander does have sufficient munition to create three versions of 'shock and awe' but Poutine underestimated Ukrainian resistance and micro managed his air commanders to restrain themselves?​
> Both versions of 'what if' constitute strategic errors that ended with what the world is seeing today -- that the Russian military was flawed and inefficient in its execution of the war. You do not see 'indiscriminate' bombing, like the American way of war, so that mean the Russian military is more humane? Damn...!!! Talk about swallowing propaganda.



War is war, I don't understand the need to argue about it as such. Few month ago we were arguing about US, and China, my home country, having a war in South Sea.

It's about the resolve. Having war, or not having war. China, as far as I know as a person with some connections, has not even remotely any serious regard for that, but is already winning a staredown contest. As I said almost a year ago, US made a strategic decision of not having a war over East Asia, or at most doing "damage control."

I don't hate, or like America. My passport is Chinese, education Canadian, and Singaporean, my parents died, and chose to be buried in UK, and they though of immigration to UK to being their achievement of a lifetime despite them being USD millionaires back in nineties, and having a prospect of becoming even bigger if they stayed.

What I hate is US elites speaking with a split tongue, trading with China and making billions from it, all while throwing poop on China, militarily posturing against China, all while preparing to "strategically betray" their own allies in the region (and constantly doing it, I.E. sabotaging Taiwan nuke project.) Today we all boo Germany for sucking to Russia, but USA is 100 times more like Germany with China.

For as long as USA will be run by Kissingers, prospects are grim. Here, @gambit you have my solidarity, and even sympathy today.

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## NotSure

RescueRanger said:


> million dollar tweet:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498663302435639299


More from him, for our "Experts" here, who say russia is losing and so on:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498635393327054849

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498760693486608392

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## sur

RescueRanger said:


> million dollar tweet:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498663302435639299


Could you please elaborate for non-tech-savvy like myself?

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## LeGenD

Foinikas said:


> I'm starting to think the Ghost of Kiev is that Indian pilot with the '70s pornstar moustache.
> 
> View attachment 819923



The Ghost of Kyiv is a morale-booster account for Ukranians.









The ‘Ghost of Kyiv’ Is The Mythical Hero Ukraine Needs Right Now


There is no evidence that a single MiG pilot shot down multiple Russian warplanes, but, historically, such legends are potent morale boosters.




www.thedrive.com





Reality is rather grim









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Here are the EXTERNAL outcomes from what Poutine did...All in one week... Remind NATO of its original raison d'etre Got NATO to reorganize its forces Got NATO to rethink its budget Pushed neutral Finland and Sweden towards NATO Ruined Russian civil aviation Further ruined Russian economy...



defence.pk

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## RescueRanger

Foinikas said:


> I'm starting to think the Ghost of Kiev is that Indian pilot with the '70s pornstar moustache.
> 
> View attachment 819923


*Now you too can be the Ghost of Kyiv!*

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498753997762707465

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498761576475672576


----------



## Foinikas

By the way

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498753997762707465



Some people will say Ukrainian figures are BS but at the same time trust those provided by Russia,russia being known to exaggerate and minimize their casualties.


----------



## kingQamaR

Belarus is not Part of the EU or Russia So they are attacking the sovereign country of Ukraine They are sitting ducks for any Country that wants to hit them.


----------



## nang2

Vergennes said:


> Some people will say Ukrainian figures are BS but at the same time trust those provided by Russia,russia being known to exaggerate and minimize their casualties.


It is always the case. If you are honest in media during a war, you are an idiot.


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498762457296297991

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## nang2

kingQamaR said:


> Belarus is not Part of the EU or Russia So they are attacking the sovereign country of Ukraine They are sitting ducks for any Country that wants to hit them.


I heard they have asked the nuke back. Better be prepared than sorry.

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## RescueRanger

sur said:


> Could you please elaborate for non-tech-savvy like myself?


He is referring to the hypocrisy of western nations questioning bombing of urban population centers in Ukraine when the West was complect of conducing sorties in downtown Baghdad for 40 days without warning. 

*Under international law:
*
Hague Regulations (1899)
Article 26 of the 1899 Hague Regulations provides: *“The commander of an attacking force, before commencing a bombardment, except in the case of an assault, should do all he can to warn the authorities.”*

Article 57(2)(c) of the 1977 Additional Protocol I provides that, with respect to attacks, the following precautions shall be taken: *“Effective advance warning shall be given of attacks which may affect the civilian population, unless circumstances do not permit.”*

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## nang2

Foinikas said:


> By the way
> 
> View attachment 819933


Damn global warming!

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## Paul2

Shotgunner51 said:


> You are welcome. I didn't pay attention to responses of Latin America until I saw your post, and found those responses quite different from what I've imagined, say Brazil.
> 
> View attachment 819904
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-news-02-27-22/h_b2ead409d34681d2bd17cd7e29bce505



They did not trusted a comedian with the fate of a nation, they trusted it to a Western pacifist.


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498763435026305031

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## LeGenD

*UPDATE *

Numerous Russian weapons and vehicles have ended up in the hands of Ukrainians.









Ukrainians Citizens Are Taking It Upon Themselves To Capture Russian Military Vehicles (Updated)


These actions are symbolic of the problems that have slowed the Russian advance and the will of average Ukrainians to resist the invasion.




www.thedrive.com

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## Titanium100

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498762457296297991



Turkey has to much trade on the line with Russia like over 100B USD that is just to much for sanctioning someone over and throwing 100B in the garbage... The trade treeshold is just over the limit of sanctioning here unfortuantely. If Turkey was to sanction Russia it would be equal to jumping off a cliff..

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## Ali_Baba

Has Lukashenko accidentally revealed MOLDOVA will be invaded next?​








Ukraine war: Belarus dictator stands in front of battle map on live TV


Alexander Lukashenko, dictatorial ruler of Belarus, stood in front of a large map apparently detailing Russia's attack plan for Ukraine as he addressed his security council today.




www.dailymail.co.uk





( or is it all smoke and mirrors )

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## nang2

Titanium100 said:


> Turkey has to much trade on the line with Russia like over 100B USD that is just to much for sanctioning someone and throwing 100B in the garbage


Yeah, not like Canada. We just dump Russian Vodka down the drain. It only costs us fewer DUIs.


----------



## Pakistan Space Agency

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> .... By it becoming a NATO member, the balance of power would be havily tilted toward a existential threat to Russia, therefore Russian preemptive invasion was inevtable from Russian POV.


How on earth a 604,000 sq km Ukraine poses an existential threat to 17.1 million sq km Russia? There are at least 5 NATO countries that border Russia already.

_This myth also ignores geography. Only 6% of Russia’s land borders touch NATO countries. Russia has land borders with 14 countries. Only five of them are NATO members. Source._​
This invasion seems more like a Russian dream of a Greater Russia than a Russia facing existential threat.


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## nang2

Pakistan Space Agency said:


> How on earth a 604,000 sq km Ukraine poses an existential threat to 17.1 million sq km Russia? There are at least 5 NATO countries that border Russia already.
> 
> _This myth also ignores geography. Only 6% of Russia’s land borders touch NATO countries. Russia has land borders with 14 countries. Only five of them are NATO members. Source._​
> This invasion seems more like a Russian dream of a Greater Russia than a Russia facing existential threat.


The fallacy of this argument is to misuse the average. Russians don't spread evenly in 17.1 million sq kms. Guess where most of them live?

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498764994405715973

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## Titanium100

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498764994405715973



This is some high level media game by Ukraine

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## Solidify

40 mile long military convoy heading for Kiev


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## Pakistan Space Agency

nang2 said:


> The fallacy of this argument is to misuse the average. Russians don't spread evenly in 17.1 million sq kms. Guess where most of them live?


Its their choice to live wherever they want within Russia. It's not alright that they should seek a policy of absorbing other sovereign, independent nations to increase Russia's landmass.

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## jamal18

US col Douglas Macgregor tellin it like it is. 2 mins.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498762119432527876

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## Ali_Baba

Apple has just announced it has stopped the sale of its products and services in Russia .. how is Putl-er gonna explain this one?

Update :
( https://www.forexlive.com/news/appl...pment-on-its-online-store-in-russia-20220301/ )

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## nang2

Pakistan Space Agency said:


> Its their choice to live wherever they want within Russia. It's not alright that they should seek a policy of absorbing other sovereign, independent nations to increase Russia's landmass.


It is their choice to choose where to live that influences Russian policy, not the other way around. You don't make a new policy and then force everyone to move. People move and force you to adapt your policy accordingly.


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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498766081590284294

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498766704448524288


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498766783372791818

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## Khanate

Limits of Indo-Pacific alliance... 😞​
Ukraine: Why India is not criticising Russia over invasion​
"One can't tilt both ways at the same time. India has not named any country, which shows it won't go against Moscow. India had to be subtle in picking a side and it has done that," Former Indian diplomat JN Misra adds.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498498270603415552


----------



## Hydration

nang2 said:


> Yeah, not like Canada. We just dump Russian Vodka down the drain. It only costs us fewer DUIs.


the russian vodka that is sent to canada and us is actually from latvia lol



Ali_Baba said:


> Apple has just announced it has stopped the sale of its products and services in Russia .. how is Putl-er gonna explain this one?


my question is why are they targetting the russian people and not the goverment

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## Titanium100

Khanate said:


> Limits of Indo-Pacific alliance... 😞​
> Ukraine: Why India is not criticising Russia over invasion​
> "One can't tilt both ways at the same time. India has not named any country, which shows it won't go against Moscow. India had to be subtle in picking a side and it has done that," Former Indian diplomat JN Misra adds.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498498270603415552



Largest democracy Lmao? They have misused the name. Forget Democracy India is not civilized and have failed at the conception of civilization.. India develops beneath the treeshold of civilized. I see alot of demonization of North Korea and Iran but both are highly civilized countries as I have had the honor of visiting all 3 countries but unfortunately India was uncivilized compared to the two other countries...

If you are a tourist your girlfriend can get snatched and I mean it literally some bandits can throw her into a van and gangrape her up that is the largest democracy

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## nang2

Hydration said:


> the russian vodka that is sent to canada and us is actually from latvia lol


Damn! We should have made it into hand sanitizer to fight pandemic!


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498619523045511168

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## NotSure

jamal18 said:


> US col Douglas Macgregor tellin it like it is. 2 mins.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498762119432527876


I said so! The facts on the ground will grow exponentially in the next days. Talk is cheap, but ...

Edit: Longer version:

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## Titanium100

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498619523045511168



Wow.. His actully speaking the truth here but the fact that it is coming from a highly ranked official like Dmitry Medvedev should be taken serious..

But aside from that economy has always been the root cause of wars

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## Sugarcane

As per PDF, All of Russian weapons, vehicles and planes have been destroyed and soldiers either captured and killed. So, I think comedian will be taking over Russia soon.

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## Solidify

Canada to ban Russian oil imports, send anti-tank weapons & ammunition to Ukraine, says Trudeau


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## Daylamite Warrior

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Surah Ar-Rum was revealed to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah (swt) be upon him) when Herculus and Kisr were at war, and was conveyed by the Almighty (swt) that "T*he Romans have been defeated in a nearby land. Yet following their defeat, they will triumph within three to nine years.1 The ˹whole˺ matter rests with Allah before and after ˹victory˺. And on that day the believers will rejoice........*"
> 
> The Romans back then were the Eastern Orthodox Christianity. And it is obvious in those revelations that they were much closer to us than the polytheists. So today, Russia represents Eastern Orthodox Christianity. They are, therefore, much closer to the Muslims in terms of a belief than the Satan-worshiping Freemasonry - whose goal is to uproot the Muslims in Al-Shaam and destroy Al-Aqsa Mosque.


Agreed brother, I am actually seeing a lot of similarities between Putin and Heraclius, and the liberal arrogant west and Kisra (Khosrow II). The Jews also supported Kisra against Heraclius, and Heraclius kept suing for peace throughout the 23 year war against Kisra, which fell on deaf ears. I still maintain that Putin is the lesser evil in this, which is why we have to be like the Muslims of Medina who merely sat back and did not get involved.

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## RescueRanger

A crazy American Journalist has climbed up a web cam tower to do a piece to camera from the center of Kyiv:


----------



## jamal18

Sugarcane said:


> As per PDF, All of Russian weapons, vehicles and planes have been destroyed and soldiers either captured and killed. So, I think comedian will be taking over Russia soon.


Well, a comedian has already taken over the Ukraine!


----------



## khansaheeb



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## Titanium100

Daylamite Warrior said:


> Agreed brother, I am actually seeing a lot of similarities between Putin and Heraclius, and the liberal arrogant west and Kisra (Khosrow II). The Jews also supported Kisra against Heraclius, and Heraclius kept suing for peace throughout the 23 year war against Kisra, which fell on deaf ears. I still maintain that Putin is the lesser evil in this, which is why we have to be like the Muslims of Medina who merely sat back and did not get involved.



Nah I will have to disagree on this one.

If we have to look for similar and common practices then unfortunately we share more with West Europe then Russia. Because they are globalists just like us. Each country is home to 2-3% of migrants and something we in the muslim world have been doing for centuries being open and also they follow human rights nowadays which is another common ground we share with them.. But Russia's human rights laws are on the low and it is anti-globalism and very ethnic oriented it has not developed as a whole civilization where as Western Europe has peaked and advanced as civilization and understand concepts that are comparable in some aspects with us which was not 100 years ago which means West Europe has matured and evolved..

We have similarities and commonalities as we are both globalists example both Russia and China aren't and the reason West Europe became globalist society is due to the US because they first evolved into one and influenced West Europe to follow that path which was probably the best thing that has ever happened to West Europe that is when they have seen a golden age

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## jamal18

NotSure said:


> I said so! The facts on the ground will grow exponentially in the next days. Talk is cheap, but ...
> 
> Edit: Longer version:


I really felt that the Russian offensive had stalled, but this officer has different views. Scott Ritter, another US ex-military commentator has said the same thing. 

We will see.

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## CrazyZ

jamal18 said:


> Well, a comedian has already taken over the Ukraine!


Jokes on him....he is about to lose eastern Ukraine

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## Daylamite Warrior

Lehrasap said:


> Are you sure about it?
> 
> This means, without humanity, when the Britishers captured the Islamic countries, then they should have raped all the Muslim women and made them slaves.
> 
> Are you really ready for a world without humanity?
> 
> What if Chinese government start raping the Chinese Muslim women, and slaughtering all the Muslim men?
> 
> Does this mean, Burmese were also right in doing the genocide of Rohingya Muslims and raping their girls?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't even know how to answer it.
> 
> Is it the fault of humanist Europe to give refuge to the Muslims and to give them the equal human rights?
> 
> Do you want to say that Europe has to kick out all the Muslims, as Burmese army did with the Rohingya Muslims, or BJP of India wants to do with the Indian Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> No one is perfect, but the humanist left Wing of Europe at least try its best for justice and equality, regardless of their personal gains.
> 
> But when you say that it is not Pakistan's war while we don't have personal gain in it, then you are following only the right-wing non-humanist ideology.


Absolute nonesense! The reason why we live in the West is because the same humanist Europeans have destroyed our own countries and now they want us to clean their toilets or assimilate to their way of life for some more peanuts. The British, Chinese and Burmese have been doing so to us regardless of whatever the Muslims do. They do it to us because we exist. Any mercy that has been shown to us Muslims is from the Justice of Allah! Mind you, it would have been nice if the humanist west minded their own business like we do, there would be fewer deaths animosity. This idea of humanism is fake virtue signalling that doesn't exist.

I never spoke on behalf of Pakistan, but on behalf of ALL Muslims. Muslim leaders are doing the right thing in being neutral in this conflict, and actually they are slightly siding with Russia by maintaining trade with them. 

The virtue signal of the liberal left wing of Europe is all about personal gain, and it took a conflict like this to show their true colours. Like I said, put the violins away. This is my final response to you.

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## gambit

nang2 said:


> Yeah, not like Canada. We just dump Russian Vodka down the drain. It only costs us fewer DUIs.


Am sure the Russian vodka would go good with Poutine.

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## OldTwilight

Sugarcane said:


> As per PDF, All of Russian weapons, vehicles and planes have been destroyed and soldiers either captured and killed. So, I think comedian will be taking over Russia soon.


The poster are saying their wishes ... 

from what I'm seeing , Russians successfully are conquering Ukraine and in less than 7 days already besiege Ukraine capital and second largest city of Ukraine ... 

The moment they decide to go Americans on Ukraine cities ( bombarding them like mad dogs ) the war essentially will turn to bloodbath ... 

Well , Ukraine was producing too much military vehicles and they had strong military backbone , its embracing for them to lose so much strategic land under a week against only 60,000 - 80,000 invasion force ...

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## jamal18

CrazyZ said:


> Jokes on him....he is about to lose eastern Ukraine


Is he a comedian or a magician? He has just made half of Ukraine disappear!

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## nang2

Solidify said:


> Canada to ban Russian oil imports, send anti-tank weapons & ammunition to Ukraine, says Trudeau


Damn! I thought we are an oil producing country. For the record, I didn't vote for him.

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## Khanate

*No comments.. 😳*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498544479971782657

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## NotSure

jamal18 said:


> I really felt that the Russian offensive had stalled, but this officer has different views. Scott Ritter, another US ex-military commentator has said the same thing.
> 
> We will see.


Exponential grow is very, very slow at the beginning. In my understanding the russian strategy was similar to that + the aim not to destroy all the infrastructure. You need to move your forces in the right places etc. and that seems very slow from the outside.

Second point: Putins negotiation strategy was always somewhat like a stairway. His first offer is "good", his second offer is not so good, and his third offer ...

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## nang2

Khanate said:


> *No comments.. 😳*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498544479971782657


Pay with what?


----------



## Daylamite Warrior

Lehrasap said:


> A very bad argument.
> 
> Humanist Europe is neither Satan-Worshippers nor evil, and thus millions of Muslims try their best to immigrate to Europe and enjoy the equal civil rights.
> 
> On one side you bring religion in your life and support orthodox Christians, but when it does not suit you, then you exclude the religion from your life, and hug the atheist Chinese and sit in their lap.
> 
> You close your eyes who this orthodox Russia killed the Chechens and how it was supporting the killing of Muslim Albanians. And it was the Evil West who rescued the Muslim Albania.
> 
> And I believe that Christian US is even more religious than Russia.
> 
> You don't deserve left wing democrats, but perhaps you deserve the religious right wing fanatic Christians, in the leadership of Trump.


Lets not get into doing a tally of how many Muslims the Masonic Liberal west has killed comapared to Russia. Not even comparable. The Chechen war was a civil war which Russia fought in its borders, whereas the Muslims that the Liberal West have killed have been on the back of trumped up accusations of terrorism or fickle support of their once beloved dictators, usually 1000s of miles away from their borders. Westerners are upset that we are monotheists and want to live by the Quran and Sunnah, and not their International man made laws. 

Muslims believe in doing trade with all people, that doesnt mean we will send our men to fight your wars. The fact is both are two cheeks of the same arse and need to kept at arms length by us Muslims. 

Sorry, this is definitely my last post on the matter lol

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## lightning F57

I think many of us are emotionally charged with this conflict for many reasons. Morally this war feels totally wrong, Russia is the aggressor and the Ukrainian people should be helped to resist oppression.

Wouldn't it be nice if the same Europeans politicians, media outlets and people in general would hold other oppressed people with the same standards especially when their own governments go and do what Russia is doing in other countries killing tens of thousands and leaving countries in chaos. Its these double standards and hypocrisy I cant stand.


----------



## Khanate

nang2 said:


> Pay with what?



Payment in Yuan via CIFS

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## R Wing

That Guy said:


> And so, Russia turning into a Chinese puppet state begins. Lol



Are you a child? Using a system devised by a country whose interests align more closely with yours is slavery? 

In that case, is everybody who uses any Western system a Western slave? Are you a Western slave because you benefit from social insurance and mostly free healthcare in Canada? 

The bias by some people here - especially the self-proclaimed enlightened ones - is astonishing.



lightning F57 said:


> I think many of us are emotionally charged with this conflict for many reasons. Morally speaking (from an Islamic perspective) this war is totally wrong, Russia is the aggressor and the Ukrainian people should be helped to resist oppression.
> 
> Wouldn't it be nice if the same Europeans politicians, media outlets and people in general would hold other oppressed people with the same standards especially when their own governments go and do what Russia is doing in other countries killing tens of thousands and leaving countries in chaos. Its these double standards and hypocrisy I cant stand.



That's your interpretation. Please always add that. You're in no position to make sweeping moral claims for a religion that has hundreds, if not thousands, of interpretations for things like politics and foreign wars.

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## CrazyZ

nang2 said:


> Pay with what?


Barter, PKR-Ruble exchange, Yuan or all three my guess.

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## nang2

Khanate said:


> Payment in Yuan via CIFS


It would be interesting to see how CIFS starts to roll.

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## R Wing

nang2 said:


> Damn! I thought we are an oil producing country. For the record, I didn't vote for him.



The US is a net importer of oil despite having reserves and being a producer.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498544479971782657

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## Daylamite Warrior

Titanium100 said:


> Nah I will have to disagree on this one.
> 
> If we have to look for similar and common practices then unfortunately we share more with West Europe then Russia. Because they are globalists just like us. Each country is home to 2-3% of migrants and something we in the muslim world have been doing for centuries being open and also they follow human rights nowadays which is another common ground we share with them.. But Russia's human rights laws are on the low and it is anti-globalism and very ethnic oriented it has not developed as a whole civilization where as Western Europe has peaked and advanced as civilization and understand concepts that are comparable in some aspects with us which was not 100 years ago which means West Europe has matured and evolved..
> 
> We have similarities and commonalities as we are both globalists example both Russia and China aren't and the reason West Europe became globalist society is due to the US because they first evolved into one and influenced West Europe to follow that path which was probably the best thing that has ever happened to West Europe that is when they have seen a golden age


Muslims are not globalist at all, especially in the situation we are in right now. And if for argument sakes we are globalists, then that surely is the only similarity with the west we have. Otherwise, we don't believe in democracy, lgbt, abortion, veganism, gender equality, feminism, Liberalism, zionism, etc ect...we are polar opposites to western liberalism. We have way more in common with conservative values. That's like saying chalk and cheese are the same because they are both white. Ridiculous comparison.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498544479971782657


This! Smart move by IK! Well done Pakistan.

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## nang2

R Wing said:


> The US is a net importer of oil despite having reserves and being a producer.


Canada is a small country, population wise.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498735580213092359

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## Titanium100

Daylamite Warrior said:


> Muslims are not globalist at all, especially in the situation we are in right now. And if for argument sakes we are globalists, then that surely is the only similarity with the west we have. Otherwise, we don't believe in democracy, lgbt, abortion, veganism, gender equality, feminism, Liberalism, zionism, etc ect...we are polar opposites to western liberalism. We have way more in common with conservative values. That's like saying chalk and cheese are the same because they are both white. Ridiculous comparison.
> 
> 
> This! Smart move by IK! Well done Pakistan.



We don't believe in LBGT ofcourse and as I mentioned we were the first globalists meaning we didn't care about ethnics, races or all that as we saw everyone as human being.. It is a bridge the west crossed just less then 100 years ago.

Hence we were the world hegemony for almost 1200 years but they have switched to globalist concept under the US because it is an immegrant country..

In our globalist society you had Arabs, Turks, Moros, Kurds, Pashtuns, East Africans, Asians, Malays, Europeans living as one society and nation..

Then there is the human rights aspect this is also a concept foreign to them but they have got it right in the last 100 years they understand the concept of human rights... You can also add Animal rights.

We were never commiting genocide in medival conquests because we were following a strict code of conduct which had certain laws that saved civilians due to human rights law

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## Khanate

*"Civilized" = White ***


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498660578482479115

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## Patriot forever

Khanate said:


> *No comments.. 😳*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498544479971782657



Uzbekistan president is also coming to Pakistan on a 2 day visit this Thursday. 

Pakistan is making a play for Central Asian connectivity and trade, gas. 

IMO alot is happening at a quick pace since the fall of kabul.

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## nang2

Khanate said:


> *"Civilized" = White ***
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498660578482479115


No, since they exclude Russians. Basically they are calling Russians and Chinese as barbarians.

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## Gripen9

This is a great listen. US had been doing soft regime change followed by the orange revolution and funding protest in Ukraine since 2013.
There is recording of an intercepted call (timestamp 44m onwards) between Victoria Nuland (Asst. Sec of State) and US ambassador to Ukraine where she explicitly shares the game plan. 









UKRAINE ON FIRE. Documentary produced by Oliver Stone. Essential viewing.


Great documentary on the past history of Ukraine, and the actual players that have been involved. You will NOT see any of this information on the MSM. Source Youtube link: https://www.youtube.com/watc




rumble.com

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498709052242763782

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## Daylamite Warrior

lightning F57 said:


> I think many of us are emotionally charged with this conflict for many reasons. Morally speaking (from an Islamic perspective) this war is totally wrong, Russia is the aggressor and the Ukrainian people should be helped to resist oppression.
> 
> Wouldn't it be nice if the same Europeans politicians, media outlets and people in general would hold other oppressed people with the same standards especially when their own governments go and do what Russia is doing in other countries killing tens of thousands and leaving countries in chaos. Its these double standards and hypocrisy I cant stand.


What Islamic perspective is this? Are we going to ignore the lynching and shelling of Russian speaking people in East Ukraine? The aggressors are Ukraine and Russia is stopping the aggression. Islam promotes multi polarity where one power checks another, otherwise there would be corruption in the land (Quran 2:251), Islam also promotes the stopping of injustice by the hands which is what Russia has done for the Eastern Ukrainians.


----------



## CrazyZ

Patriot forever said:


> Uzbekistan president is also coming to Pakistan on a 2 day visit this Thursday.
> 
> Pakistan is making a play for Central Asian connectivity and trade, gas.
> 
> IMO alot is happening at a quick pace since the fall of kabul.


I recall reading an article a few days ago that Pak-Uzbek trade had reached historical record levels this year. North south trade and infrastructure connections in Eurasia will only strengthen going forward.

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## Khanate

Patriot forever said:


> Uzbekistan president is also coming to Pakistan on a 2 day visit this Thursday.
> 
> Pakistan is making a play for Central Asian connectivity and trade, gas.
> 
> IMO alot is happening at a quick pace since the fall of kabul.




Personally, I'm a fog of war enjoyer.

But for all the takes on conflict analysis on this thread, precious little has been said about the impact of the new world (dis)order on CPEC.

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## nang2

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498709052242763782


It was the building close to the tower, not the tower itself.


----------



## jamal18

Patriot forever said:


> Uzbekistan president is also coming to Pakistan on a 2 day visit this Thursday.
> 
> Pakistan is making a play for Central Asian connectivity and trade, gas.
> 
> IMO alot is happening at a quick pace since the fall of kabul.


I have never believed in the sense of a pipeline going through Afghanistan, where every warlord with a pound of plastic explosive can block it. Also there is the unfinished gas pipeline with Iran.

Exactly how many unfinished pipelines does Pakistan want?

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## sur

Khanate said:


> *No comments.. 😳*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498544479971782657


Good news. But I hope one day we could be self-sufficient.

Radio Pakistan also pointed to that:








PM unveils major relief package to protect masses from impact of global inflationary trends


PM unveils major relief package to protect masses from impact of global inflationary trends




www.radio.gov.pk





. . . Talking about his recent visits to China and Russia, the Prime Minister said these tours will have far reaching impact on country's economy.

*He said we are going to import two million tons of wheat and gas from Russia*, while we have better understanding on the second phase of China-Pakistan Economic Corridor that will boost Pakistan's economy.

Imran Khan said he believes in an independent foreign policy in the best interest of the people of Pakistan. . . .



nang2 said:


> Pay with what?



Probably alternatives:



https://www.rt.com/business/442946-russias-analogue-of-swift/





https://www.rt.com/business/455121-russian-banks-chinese-swift/





https://www.rt.com/business/442946-russias-analogue-of-swift/





https://www.rt.com/business/550458-russia-swift-czech-president/



_. . . They also noted that Russia has been developing an alternative payment system . ._ .


If Russia and China could do this feat and hence cause a global devaluation of dollar:

Most of the talent that US has gathered from rest of the world will return back to their countries.
Because there will be no incentive for them as they would be able to make more money in their countries of origin.
US-&-co will not be able to buy cheaper products & will starve themselves of many items that they currently import.



jamal18 said:


> I have never believed in the sense of a pipeline going through Afghanistan, where every warlord with a pound of plastic explosive can block it. Also there is the unfinished gas pipeline with Iran.
> 
> Exactly how many unfinished pipelines does Pakistan want?



Pakistan could either:

Purchase this narrow strip of *Wakhan Corridor* from afghans.
Occupy it.
Incentivize tribal leaders of this strip to join Pakistan.
Go around it.
etc.


I was of this opinion back in 2014 too 



sur said:


> Pakistan should establish *highway and rail links with* both China and Russia. Tajikistan & Uzbekistan & Kyrgyzstan will also be linked. There is a narrow strip of Afghanistan that comes in the way too.
> 
> It is said that Russian invasion of Afghanistan was ambition to reach warm waters!! Making such road\rail links will give these countries access to Arabian-Sea without them needing to invade anyone. It would be a win-win for all.
> 
> At the time *Karakoram Highway* was built, technology was not what engineers have today. It would be much easier, & safer to build high quality road\rail link now. *Breaching the Himalayas* should be relatively easy task now. To shorten the distance, raise it rather high as a bridge to avoid serpentine longer distances.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To avoid that narrow strip of Afghanistan, we can build the main highway+rail to China & the link from Russia & Russian states could join that primary link in China. Thus skipping Afghanistan.
> .

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## CrazyZ

Khanate said:


> *"Civilized" = White ***
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498660578482479115


Common among Nazi types to portray the other side as sub-human.

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## Daylamite Warrior

Titanium100 said:


> We don't believe in LBGT ofcourse and as I mentioned we were the first globalists meaning we didn't care about ethnics, races or all that as we saw everyone as human being.. It is a bridge the west crossed just less then 100 years ago.
> 
> Hence we were the world hegemony for almost 1200 years but they have switched to globalist concept under the US because it is an immegrant country..
> 
> In our globalist society you had Arabs, Turks, Moros, Kurds, Pashtuns, East Africans, Asians, Malays, Europeans living as one society and nation..
> 
> Then there is the human rights aspect this is also a concept foreign to them but they have got it right in the last 100 years they understand the concept of human rights... You can also add Animal rights.
> 
> We were never commiting genocide in medival conquests because we were following a strict code of conduct which had certain laws that saved civilians due to human rights law


No the first globalists were technically the Achemenid Persians, then the Greeks (western), then Romans (Western). Muslims were fairly late to the game of empire builiding. So I dont know where you got this "100 years ago" from.

Muslims were not global hegemon at all, if they were they would have conquered China and Northern Europe, but they didnt and couldn't. Animal rights practiced by the west is actually an injustice since human life, especially Afghans, is seen as inferior than animals. So even in their animal rights there is racism. Their human rights is also racist as well since Ukrainian refugees are okay to fill molotov cocktails and come in droves to escape war, but us brown people are leeches that should stay at home. Genocide is also a western practice that was brought to our lands by the Romans and First Crusades. Islam is NOTHING like the Western liberal globalists. Sorry.


----------



## Wergeland 2.0

Vergennes said:


> Some people will say Ukrainian figures are BS but at the same time trust those provided by Russia,russia being known to exaggerate and minimize their casualties.



The challenge with pro-Ukraian tweets is the magnitude of its figures concerning russian losses, which for any critical mind will sound, lets say, a bit exagerated. Combined with the ongoing steady russian advances every single day, the ukrainian reports seem less and less reliable. This (dis)information is mainly designed for internal consumption and/or for gathering support from external allies. It is also directed against possible russian netizens or soldiers whom they hope to deliver demoralizing news.

The case of Ukraine in fact resemble the recent ANA-Taliban showdown, lasting from Spring to end of Summer 2021. Strings of hopefull tweets and news in favor of ANA and its allies, making it seems as Taliban had been defeated, when evidently the facts on the ground was the opposite.

It is expected from factions in a war to operate with misinformation, deception and exaggeration. After all propaganda is a effective tool when implemented artfully.

The pitfall of propaganda is the risk of self-deception. That a proponent believes so strongly in its own propaganda that it blinds its own strategic judgement and therefore hasten an eventual defeat.

Propaganda is always a dual-edged sword.

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## Falcon29

This is getting really violent. What is Russian endgame? If it is to take over all of Ukraine, conflict could surely spread to others in the neighborhood.


----------



## kingQamaR

RT News channel will be blocked tonight from eu and U.K. on news reporting

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## Gripen9

Thoughts on this @gambit @RescueRanger

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## Khanate

CrazyZ said:


> Jokes on him....he is about to lose eastern Ukraine




Very unfortunate to see NATO and allies standing by and watching ("monitoring") the slow massacre in Ukraine.

What message does their inaction send to Taiwan and Hong Kong?

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## CrazyZ

jamal18 said:


> I have never believed in the sense of a pipeline going through Afghanistan, where every warlord with a pound of plastic explosive can block it. Also there is the unfinished gas pipeline with Iran.
> 
> Exactly how many unfinished pipelines does Pakistan want?


Iran and Russia have the largest reserves of gas in the world. In the future Pakistan should interlink with both. Its in our interests to be able to make Iran, Russia or LNG from Qatar compete for the best price in our local energy markets. If the Indians are smart they would make a deal with Pakistan in Kashmir and enjoy the economics benefits of trade access to Eurasia. The Afghans need to focus on peace and trade and not war and aid (like the old Kabul regime was built on) if they want to lift themselves. I believe the Taliban will choose peace and trade.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498782272819974147



https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ovidjTMskrZqdtep1JcYfWr1VZ3NUJvD/view




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498783517731348480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498783686304620546

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## Wergeland 2.0

Pakistan Space Agency said:


> How on earth a 604,000 sq km Ukraine poses an existential threat to 17.1 million sq km Russia?



This question fall on its own unreasonableness. As sheer size of land does NOT necesarily ALONE define how its affects the defence strategic calculus of its immidiate neighbors.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498783885559226374

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498753981799145478

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498782876887826435

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498782555134468106


----------



## Khanate

Gripen9 said:


> This is a great listen. US had been doing soft regime change followed by the orange revolution and funding protest in Ukraine since 2013.
> There is recording of an intercepted call (timestamp 44m onwards) between Victoria Nuland (Asst. Sec of State) and US ambassador to Ukraine where she explicitly shares the game plan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UKRAINE ON FIRE. Documentary produced by Oliver Stone. Essential viewing.
> 
> 
> Great documentary on the past history of Ukraine, and the actual players that have been involved. You will NOT see any of this information on the MSM. Source Youtube link: https://www.youtube.com/watc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rumble.com




*NED = Spyless coup planners... 😐*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498546635361734656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498353053560356867

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## Ali_Baba

kingQamaR said:


> RT News channel will be blocked tonight from eu and U.K. on news reporting


Already blocked in EU. Not UK (uk wants bbc to publish news into Russia and bbc is globally recognised brand etc).

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## jamal18

Richard Medhurst and Pepe Escobar. Long but entertaining and funny. Mentions Pakistan and India. Could understanding of effect on Europe of sanctions.


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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498784573634879491

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498785495869968388

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498785998242783233

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## lightning F57

Daylamite Warrior said:


> What Islamic perspective is this? Are we going to ignore the lynching and shelling of Russian speaking people in East Ukraine? The aggressors are Ukraine and Russia is stopping the aggression. Islam promotes multi polarity where one power checks another, otherwise there would be corruption in the land (Quran 2:251), Islam also promotes the stopping of injustice by the hands which is what Russia has done for the Eastern Ukrainians.


I have edited my post to stick with my own view. I was referring to an act of aggression generally not going into specifics which will vary in every conflict.


----------



## mingle

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498547835410780166
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498548842001805314


Looks like Kharkov is getting main Russian thrust unlucky city with history bloodshed since ages


----------



## CrazyZ

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498784573634879491
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498785495869968388
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498785998242783233


Turks are not "civilized" enough to join the EU. Ukrainian Neo-Nazi's are.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498788270184046603

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498788803812671492

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## Solidify

Israeli-made weapons are heading to Ukraine

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## Wergeland 2.0

Titanium100 said:


> We don't believe in LBGT ofcourse and as I mentioned we were the first globalists meaning we didn't care about ethnics, races or all that as we saw everyone as human being.. It is a bridge the west crossed just less then 100 years ago.
> 
> Hence we were the world hegemony for almost 1200 years but they have switched to globalist concept under the US because it is an immegrant country..
> 
> In our globalist society you had Arabs, Turks, Moros, Kurds, Pashtuns, East Africans, Asians, Malays, Europeans living as one society and nation..
> 
> Then there is the human rights aspect this is also a concept foreign to them but they have got it right in the last 100 years they understand the concept of human rights... You can also add Animal rights.
> 
> We were never commiting genocide in medival conquests because we were following a strict code of conduct which had certain laws that saved civilians due to human rights law



I think you are broadly correct.
The Caliphate was the first true cosmopolitan civilization. Islam is the only open civilization that exists. Therefore Islam often is described as a *xenophilic civilization*. It integrates and adapts.

This is a fact that have been observed by numerous western historians and sociologists.

The western society borrowed, and elaborated and further developed on the huge advances in different branches of knowledge in the Medieval, Late Medieval and even pre-modern period of the islamicate world.

This is how things works. Many histographers therefore argue that there really dosent exist multiple single civilizations but in fact they all comprise a single world civilization with evolving branches.

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## Solidify

nang2 said:


> Damn! I thought we are an oil producing country. For the record, I didn't vote for him.


Honestly I like the guy, but he's doing all the wrong things inside locally + Internationally recently.


----------



## Khanate

Falcon29 said:


> This is getting really violent. What is Russian endgame? If it is to take over all of Ukraine, conflict could surely spread to others in the neighborhood.




Its the Dugin doctrine. 😉

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## The Eagle

RescueRanger said:


> Foreign envoys urge Pakistan to condemn Russian invasion of Ukraine during emergency UNGA session​- https://www.dawn.com/news/1677704
> 
> @That Guy @LeGenD @The Eagle @Chak Bamu @PDF @A1Kaid @Irfan Baloch @jaibi @Horus @Signalian @HRK
> 
> Thoughts? Treading water moment!



We ain't fighting no blonde blue eyed white war. What past gave Pakistan? Once the purpose is done, hit with sanctions, arm the enemy of Pakistan and gave him all the room to sponsor Pakistan's killings. Haven't Pakistan had enough of fighting others wars? Pakistan has seen enough and tolerates that FATF arm twisting. Few to name.
I believe national interest first.

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## Paul2

The Eagle said:


> We ain't fighting no blonde blue eyed white war. What past gave Pakistan? Once the purpose is done, hit with sanctions, arm the enemy of Pakistan and gave him all the room to sponsor Pakistan's killings. Haven't Pakistan had enough of fighting others wars? Pakistan has seen enough and tolerates that FATF arm twisting. Few to name.
> I believe national interest first.



Well, you know Pakistan been sending its commandos, and pilots to fight Arab wars. What they paid back?

I think it's IK's way of paying back for their stance on Kashmir.


----------



## Aesterix

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498284049609244677

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## Elias MC

Which countries have not imposed sanctions against Russia?

🔹 Moscow partners in the BRICS group (Brazil, India, China, South Africa).

🔹 CSTO Countries: Belarus, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Armenia, Kyrgyzstan.

🔹Azerbaijan and Moldova abandoned anti-Russian restrictions. But the most unexpected was the position of Georgia.
🔹 Latin America (Argentina, Venezuela, Guatemala, Colombia, Cuba, Nicaragua, Chile).

🔹In the Middle East: Syria, Egypt, Turkey.

🔹 There are two non-EU Balkan countries in Europe: Serbia and Bosnia and Herzegovina. Hungary took an ambivalent position.

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## Daylamite Warrior

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> I think you are broadly correct.
> The Caliphate was the first true cosmopolitan civilization. Islam is the only open civilization that exists. Therefore Islam often is described as a xenophilic civilization. It integrates and adapts.


False, Achemenid Persia was the first, followed by a string of others. And Islamic civilisation was about Islamism and not globalism. It was largely centralised and didnt not share any of values of western liberals. That's a false equivocation. Islam is an affront to western liberal values which is why western liberals have killed the most Muslims. This is why any self respecting Muslim should think twice about getting involved in this conflict, and if they do think thrice before joining the western narrative. It's borderline treachery for a Muslim to side with the west considering the past.



The Eagle said:


> We ain't fighting no blonde blue eyed white war. What past gave Pakistan? Once the purpose is done, hit with sanctions, arm the enemy of Pakistan and gave him all the room to sponsor Pakistan's killings. Haven't Pakistan had enough of fighting others wars? Pakistan has seen enough and tolerates that FATF arm twisting. Few to name.
> I believe national interest first.


Thank you, brother!

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## Paul2

Elias MC said:


> 🔹In the Middle East: Syria, Egypt, Turkey.



I believe people in Paris, and to some extend Washington are now biting their nails for slighting Turkey for years for no other point than a dick size contest, and for closing eyes on Egypt because of the previous point.

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## Daylamite Warrior

Paul2 said:


> Well, you know Pakistan been sending its commandos, and pilots to fight Arab wars. What they paid back?
> 
> I think it's IK's way of paying back for their stance on Kashmir.


Let's not compare two Muslims nations helping each other, with a Muslim nation going to fight for an avowed enemy of Muslims and Islam.


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## RescueRanger

Gripen9 said:


> Thoughts on this @gambit @RescueRanger


At this point nothing surprises me. Remember the crate of exploding mangoes et al.

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## R Wing

Falcon29 said:


> This is getting really violent. What is Russian endgame? If it is to take over all of Ukraine, conflict could surely spread to others in the neighborhood.



No. The Kiev government (Zelensky and his gang, who came into power more or less through a CIA-engineered coup) must capitulate or the suffering of its people will increase.

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## NotSure

Probably shot down of ukr missile, maybe Tochka-U by Pantsir-S1:

https://****/faceofwar/16237
Telegram.

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## ziaulislam

Paul2 said:


> Well, you know Pakistan been sending its commandos, and pilots to fight Arab wars. What they paid back?
> 
> I think it's IK's way of paying back for their stance on Kashmir.


Alot of oil subsidies at time of need
Have you seen the news?
Or are you this dumb?

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## RescueRanger

Aesterix said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498284049609244677


Lovely liberal angels . Butter wouldn’t melt in their mouths. 

“Ukrainian First” is a policy that exists be it the mainstream media won’t talk about it, because it doesn’t suit the “aww” “freedom fries” narrative.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498789109673959424

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## The Eagle

Paul2 said:


> Well, you know Pakistan been sending its commandos, and pilots to fight Arab wars. What they paid back?
> 
> I think it's IK's way of paying back for their stance on Kashmir.



Well Pakistanis knows what they were paid back. After all, Israel is no State for Pakistan. Never recognized. 

Kashmir or Palestine, the unarmed civilians are always terrorists but supporting Ukraine is moral and whatever definition they have. Why to press Pakistan? They are stronger and should get in the fight. Pakistan already fought USSR in Afghanistan. What was delivered in return? Pressler... Yes the Pressler with all sanctions. Then comes the WoT. What was returned? Terrorism with full backing of India in Afghanistan and even freezing CSF for the losses. Why should Pakistan now join anyone else's war. Even, denied UAE and KSA for Yemen. People in Kashmir and Palestine are killed. Where was moral police? Arming India and Israel, supporting them everywhere and providing every help.

Neutral and Pakistan centric policy, is the way forward.

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## Thinker3

It seems that Mariupol where Azov Batallion is based is a key target for the Russians, it was completely surrounded by the Russians, DPR, and Chechens from all sides and today attacked.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498674397573533704

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## Zibago

Lehrasap said:


> Yes, the the humanist left wing is still opposing BDS and illegal settlements only in the name of humanity, and they don't have any personal gain from it.
> 
> But when Pakistan says "Not our War" and we have no gains to make, then it is simply following the the same right wing Trump ideology.


The Soviet war kind of stung a little in the long run as we had to fight the people our policy created so forgive us if we have lost the appetite for jumping in geopolitical battles led by the west
This time we will try sitting on the fence

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498782716258660354

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## RescueRanger

Allegedly a captured TOS-1… Bur what’s that on the bottom right hand side?




😷

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## Wergeland 2.0

Daylamite Warrior said:


> False, Achemenid Persia was the first, followed by a string of others. And Islamic civilisation was about Islamism and not globalism. It was largely centralised and didnt not share any of values of western liberals. That's a false equivocation. Islam is an affront to western liberal values which is why western liberals have killed the most Muslims. This is why any self respecting Muslim should think twice about getting involved in this conflict, and if they do think thrice before joining the western narrative. It's borderline treachery for a Muslim to side with the west considering the past.
> 
> 
> Thank you, brother!



Lets just agree to disagree.

Achamenid Empire was multiethnic and broadly tolerant to different faiths, although Zoroastrianism was the official state religion. But Achamenid empire was a ethno-cultural-linguistic empire. It was not a IDEOLOGICAL empire like Islam.

The Caliphate became decentralized after Abbasid revolution.

The caliphate was a PURELY IDEOLOGICAL empire, open for anyone to become muslim and accepted as fullworthy citizen simply on observing the Shahada. That means anyone regardless of skin color, ethnicity and culture could become a muslim, without abandonding the aforementioned identities. Even non-muslims could become a citizen, but they were characterized as dhimmies, which simply means protected. They were extempted from military service (which was mandatory in theory for every male muslim) but had to pay a poll tax.

Concerning the modern western liberal democracy, there is a need for defining what that really means. Because i imagine that you are mixing the post-modernism ideology with the term liberalism. Those two terms had nothing to do with eachother until recent 60 years or so. Classical liberalism has very much in common with Islam. In fact the western world didnt become postmodernist and LGBT oriented until recently, wich is mere a blink in its almost 1000 year long history.

What i am trying to explain to you is that its very hard for modern western world to lay out what is its own real identity. What makes western world western? Until recently it was no question, you had to be some form of christian and white. Today its usually respect for democracy and atleast some form of post-modernism. That is also the reason many westerners feel alianated when they meet a person of color, even though the colored person may be educated,tolerant towards sexual freedom and respecte democracy. Historically you had to be caucasian white and christian or else your life could be in danger. That was never the case in any islamic society. The major red line in islamic society was always blasphemy, if you could steer away from PUBLIC blasphemy, you were accepted as a islamicate citizen.

I could go on and on as this is a field of major interest to me. As much that i would say it has changed my life and world outlook forever.

This is my last but long post(excuse me) on this topic, which tbh is totally offtopic😅

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## Khanate

*Sad development... 😢 *


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498591112188989442
*Priorities *


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498732864149463043

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## khansaheeb

Solidify said:


> Israeli-made weapons are heading to Ukraine


Seems like every Zion controlled country is trying to save the newly setup Zion controlled country Ukraine.

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## Thinker3

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> Lets just agree to disagree.
> 
> Achamenid Empire was multiethnic and broadly tolerant to different faiths, although Zoroastrianism was the official state religion. But Achamenid empire was a ethno-cultural-linguistic empire. It was not a IDEOLOGICAL empire like Islam.
> 
> The Caliphate became decentralized after Abbasid revolution.
> 
> The caliphate was a PURELY IDEOLOGICAL empire, open for anyone to become muslim and accepted as fullworthy citizen simply on observing the Shahada. That means anyone regardless of skin color, ethnicity and culture could become a muslim, without abandonding the aforementioned identities. Even non-muslims could become a citizen, but they were characterized as dhimmies, which simply means protected. They were extempted from military service (which was mandatory in theory for every male muslim) but had to pay a poll tax.
> 
> Concerning the modern western liberal democracy, there is a need for defining what that really means. Because i imagine that you are mixing the post-modernism ideology with the term liberalism. Those two terms had nothing to do with eachother until recent 60 years or so. Classical liberalism has very much in common with Islam. In fact the western world didnt become postmodernist and LGBT oriented until recently, wich is mere a blink in its almost 1000 year long history.
> 
> What i am trying to explain to you is that its very hard for modern western world to lay out what is its own real identity. What makes western world western? Until recently it was no question, you had to be some form of christian and white. Today its usually respect for democracy and atleast sole form of post-modernism. That is also the reason many westerners feel alianated when they meet a person of color, even though the colored person may be educated,tolerant towards sexual freedom and respecte democracy. Historically you had to be caucasian white and christian or else your life could be in danger. That was never the case in any islamic society. The major red line in islamic society was always blasphemy, if you could steer away from PUBLIC blasphemy, you were accepted as a islamicate citizen.
> 
> I could go on and on as this is a field which is of major interest for me. As mich as i would say it has changed my life and world outlook forever.
> 
> This is my last but long post(excuse me) on this topic, which tbh is totally offtopic😅


Are you a Muslim? you have done research on these topics.


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## RescueRanger

LeGenD said:


> *UPDATE *
> 
> Numerous Russian weapons and vehicles have ended up in the hands of Ukrainians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainians Citizens Are Taking It Upon Themselves To Capture Russian Military Vehicles (Updated)
> 
> 
> These actions are symbolic of the problems that have slowed the Russian advance and the will of average Ukrainians to resist the invasion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com


General Andrei Serdyukov & Major General Oleg Tsekov right now…

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## Zibago

RescueRanger said:


> *Now you too can be the Ghost of Kyiv!*
> View attachment 819932


I only know how to fly a paper plane 😔

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## Khanate

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498789109673959424





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498481082018246661

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## jamal18

Zibago said:


> I only know how to fly a paper plane 😔


We all have to start somewhere...

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## Zibago

Daylamite Warrior said:


> What Islamic perspective is this? Are we going to ignore the lynching and shelling of Russian speaking people in East Ukraine? The aggressors are Ukraine and Russia is stopping the aggression. Islam promotes multi polarity where one power checks another, otherwise there would be corruption in the land (Quran 2:251), Islam also promotes the stopping of injustice by the hands which is what Russia has done for the Eastern Ukrainians.


I have no team I hope they stop fighting but I am not picking a side here

Both countries have committed atrocities in past and present

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## Wergeland 2.0

Thinker3 said:


> Are you a Muslim? you have done research on these topics.



Yes i am muslim, Alhamdu liLah

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## HAIDER

Khanate said:


> *Sad development... 😢*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498591112188989442
> *Priorities *
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498732864149463043


That is the problem with Indians, they will die in a foreign land but don't want to go back to the home country....someone should explain to them it's not secured .... All Pakistani students already left... our embassy did a remarkable job.



Zibago said:


> I have no team I hope they stop fighting but I am not picking a side here
> 
> Both countries have committed atrocities in past and present

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## HAIDER

RescueRanger said:


> Lovely liberal angels . Butter wouldn’t melt in their mouths.
> 
> “Ukrainian First” is a policy that exists be it the mainstream media won’t talk about it, because it doesn’t suit the “aww” “freedom fries” narrative.


Call Mr. Leon, he must be on the border of Ukraine and Russia...... he should rescue his brothers in the hood ...

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## RescueRanger

Zibago said:


> I only know how to fly a paper plane 😔


Don’t worry sir, I’ve got you covered too:

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## Daylamite Warrior

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> Lets just agree to disagree.
> 
> Achamenid Empire was multiethnic and broadly tolerant to different faiths, although Zoroastrianism was the official state religion. But Achamenid empire was a ethno-cultural-linguistic empire. It was not a IDEOLOGICAL empire like Islam.
> 
> The Caliphate became decentralized after Abbasid revolution.
> 
> The caliphate was a PURELY IDEOLOGICAL empire, open for anyone to become muslim and accepted as fullworthy citizen simply on observing the Shahada. That means anyone regardless of skin color, ethnicity and culture could become a muslim, without abandonding the aforementioned identities. Even non-muslims could become a citizen, but they were characterized as dhimmies, which simply means protected. They were extempted from military service (which was mandatory in theory for every male muslim) but had to pay a poll tax.
> 
> Concerning the modern western liberal democracy, there is a need for defining what that really means. Because i imagine that you are mixing the post-modernism ideology with the term liberalism. Those two terms had nothing to do with eachother until recent 60 years or so. Classical liberalism has very much in common with Islam. In fact the western world didnt become postmodernist and LGBT oriented until recently, wich is mere a blink in its almost 1000 year long history.
> 
> What i am trying to explain to you is that its very hard for modern western world to lay out what is its own real identity. What makes western world western? Until recently it was no question, you had to be some form of christian and white. Today its usually respect for democracy and atleast some form of post-modernism. That is also the reason many westerners feel alianated when they meet a person of color, even though the colored person may be educated,tolerant towards sexual freedom and respecte democracy. Historically you had to be caucasian white and christian or else your life could be in danger. That was never the case in any islamic society. The major red line in islamic society was always blasphemy, if you could steer away from PUBLIC blasphemy, you were accepted as a islamicate citizen.
> 
> I could go on and on as this is a field of major interest to me. As much that i would say it has changed my life and world outlook forever.
> 
> This is my last but long post(excuse me) on this topic, which tbh is totally offtopic😅


Yeah you really went off on a tangent there. You said the first cosmopolitan empire was Islam and I proved to you that you were wrong. Now you're moving the goalposts. If Zoroastrianism was state religion, and Persians and Medes were first class citizens compared to the rest, then I would argue the Persian Empire were also ideological as well. Rome was also more so ideological than the Persians, and Rome is the backbone of Western ideology.

The west and Islam are chalk and cheese, they both may look white to you but when you take a bite it couldnt be more different. The fact remains that modern western liberalism which has adopted post-modernism, regardless of whether it was 60 years or a 100 years (who cares?!), which is also godless, is an affront to Islamic values. Whereas conservative values are a lot more similar. Nothing you will say can change my mind on that, so let's agree to disagree on this.


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## NotSure

A group of men in Cherson tried to attack a russian convoy with molotov cocktails from the woods around the street. So the convoy opened fire, seems like 30mm HE or so, because even the trees got cut down like nothing. Not even talking about the men, so i will not post the video.

My point is: Selensky and Co. are responsible too for this mess. They gave the order to arm civilians with molotov cocktails etc. Because they want as many ukr. civilians dead as possible. To get Nato dragged in and making the peace process at the end as hard as possible!

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## RescueRanger

HAIDER said:


> Call Mr. Leon, he must be on the border of Ukraine and Russia...... he should rescue his brothers in the hood ...


Speaking of Leon:
Boris Johnson hints UK's 'Lads' Army' could be treated like TERRORISTS on return from Ukraine as he urges them NOT to join Zelensky's civilian fightback - as city banker whose hero is George Orwell and gym boss join ex-SAS soldiers making way to frontline​








British volunteers head to Ukrainian embassy to fight against Russia


Giving a speech in Estonia today, Prime Minister warned Britons wanting to join Ukraine in their war with Russia that they could be breaking UK laws by taking part in the fighting.



www.dailymail.co.uk

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## QWECXZ




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## Wergeland 2.0

NotSure said:


> . So the convoy opened fire, seems like 30mm HE or so, because even the trees got cut down like nothing. Not even talking about the men, so i will not post the video.


This is height of irresponsibility. You dont ask civilians to fight against modern war machine with molotov cocktails.

Molotov cocktails work against hooligans or riot police but barely scratches a well armed Military force.

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## khansaheeb

​

https://www.rt.com/news/550997-mexico-declines-to-sanction-russia/


Mexico declines to join Russia sanctions​President Lopez Obrador says his country won’t take part in trying to punish Moscow over its attack on Ukraine





Mexican President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador is shown at a press briefing last week in Colima, Mexico. © Getty Images / Leonardo Montecillo
Mexico won’t be taking part in the international pile-on to sanction Russia over its invasion of Ukraine, as President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador has said he seeks to keep his country on peaceful terms with all nations.
_“We are not going to take any sort of economic retaliation because we want to maintain good relations with all the governments of the world,”_ Lopez Obrador told reporters on Tuesday. He added that remaining neutral will put Mexico in a position to _“talk with the parties in conflict.”_
The Mexican leader’s position on the Ukraine crisis marks a novel diplomatic strategy as other nations around the world – including former Warsaw Pact nations such as Bulgaria and Romania – join the US in trying to punish Russia. Choosing neutrality could strain Mexico’s close relationship with Washington, but Lopez Obrador has been critical of US foreign policy.
Even as it tries to avoid alienating its dominant trading partner, the US, Mexico also aims to maintain economic ties with Russia and Moscow’s Latin American allies. Russia’s Lukoil this year bought into an offshore oil project in Mexico, and Lopez Obrador said on Monday that his country will keep its airspace open for Aeroflot’s flights to Mexico City.
Mexican Tourism Minister Miguel Torruco was widely criticized this week for posting a Twitter message offering _“warm greetings”_ to Aeroflot and noting that _“tourism is synonymous with peace, friendship and understanding between peoples.”_ He added that Russian tourist visits to Mexico more than doubled last year to over 75,000.
READ MORE: Venezuela’s Maduro gives his take on Russia-Ukraine conflict
Lopez Obrador criticized censorship of Russian media outlets, including RT, by governments and social media companies. _“I don’t agree with the fact that media from Russia or any country is censored,”_ he said.

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## Indian Libertarian

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> This is height of irresponsibility. You dont ask civilians to fight against modern war machine with molotov cocktails.
> 
> Molotov cocktails work against hooligans or riot police but barely scratches a well armed Military force.


Lol I saw a video of Ukrainians with Molotov cocktail burning their own Osa SAM.

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## khansaheeb

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-01-22/index.html



12 min ago
Ukraine's Chief Rabbi condemns violence, says 3 missiles have hit a sacred memorial in Kyiv​From CNN's Tim Lister in Kyiv 






Emergency crews respond to the scene of an airstrike near Kyiv's TV tower on March 1. The nearby Babyn Yar Holocaust memorial site was also hit during the attack. (Wolfgang Schwan/Anadolu Agency/Getty Images)

Moshe Reuven Azman, the Chief Rabbi of Ukraine, has condemned the missile attack close to the Babyn Yar memorial in Kyiv, saying three missiles hit the area. 
"War crimes are taking place here," he said in a video statement on his Facebook page.
"The Russian army, which fought the fascists in 1941, is bombing the civilians of Kyiv, Kharkiv, Odessa. Just now the Babyn Yar was shelled. Three missiles hit the place."
"Babyn Yar - this is symbolic. Babyn Yar is a place where 200,000 innocent elderly, women and kids lie," he added. 
Between 1941 and 1943, the Nazis shot tens of thousands of people at Babyn Yar, including almost the entire Jewish population of Kyiv, according to the memorial's official website.
"I’m constantly receiving calls from Jews, not just Jews, Ukrainians and Russians from all over Kyiv asking for help," the Rabbi said. 
"They need humanitarian aid. Every day I’m trying to help. The elderly [are] calling saying they don’t have the necessary medicines, mothers [are] calling saying they don’t have food for kids, they are suffering from the shelling." 
Azman's Facebook video continued with the Rabbi pledging to no longer keep quiet amid the violence.
"I’ve kept silent for a long time, I will not anymore. I address you, dear Russians, dear Jews, everybody who’s not indifferent: those, who silently agree with what’s happening or those who stay indifferent - are complicit in this military crime. crime against humanity. I’m only saying what I see. I’m not afraid to die. I could never imagine in my worst nightmare that I could die under Russian shelling."

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## RescueRanger

And Pakistanis think Sheikh Rasheed is an embarrassment on TV:

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## jamal18

NotSure said:


> A group of men in Cherson tried to attack a russian convoy with molotov cocktails from the woods around the street. So the convoy opened fire, seems like 30mm HE or so, because even the trees got cut down like nothing. Not even talking about the men, so i will not post the video.
> 
> My point is: Selensky and Co. are responsible too for this mess. They gave the order to arm civilians with molotov cocktails etc. Because they want as many ukr. civilians dead as possible. To get Nato dragged in and making the peace process at the end as hard as possible!


Like I said, anybody who tells people to go forward with molotove cocktails is a murderer. He know nothing of combat. Same with arming civilians and women.

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## Genghis khan1

khansaheeb said:


> Seems like every Zion controlled country is trying to save the newly setup Zion controlled country Ukraine.


Christian Zionist religious believe, Russians along with Arab (Muslims) will be on the opposing (evil) side to them and their final return of massiah. 

Basically thei Dajjal is supported by Russians and Muslims end if times false prophet. That’s what they been preaching to their people.

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## khansaheeb

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-01-22/index.html


POLITICS
Russia's 40-mile convoy appears to have bogged down 15 miles from Kyiv; shells pound Ukrainian city of Kharkiv. Live updates.​Tom Vanden BrookJohn BaconJorge L. OrtizCelina Tebor
USA TODAY

0:17
1:29
A massive, 40-mile convoy of Russian tanks and vehicles appeared to bog down on its push toward the capital of Kyiv on Tuesday while residential areas of Kharkiv, Ukraine's second-largest city, were being pounded by Russian shells.
The Russian military advance drew to within 15 miles of Kyiv’s center amid signs that troops are running out of gas and food, a senior U.S. Defense Department official said Tuesday. Russia has committed about 80% of the combat force President Vladimir Putin deployed to invade Ukraine, the official said.
Ukrainian resistance is continuing, and it has helped stymie the advance, according to the official who briefed reporters on condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence findings. It is also possible the Russians are pausing to regroup and reassess their attack, the official said.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said he spoke with President Joe Biden on Tuesday concerning Russian sanctions and defense assistance to Ukraine. The White House confirmed that they spoke for more than 30 minutes.
"We must stop the aggressor as soon as possible," Zelenskyy tweeted. "Thank you for your support!"
Biden is expected to speak about the crisis in Ukraine on Tuesday night as part of his State of the Union address to a joint session of Congress. Here's how to watch Biden's speech.

In Kharkiv, at least 11 people were killed and 35 wounded in the rocket strike, Interior Ministry adviser Anton Herashchenko said, adding that the death toll is expected to rise. Closed-circuit television footage showed a fireball engulfing a street in front of one building, and a few cars rolled out of the billowing smoke.
Hospital workers transferred a Kharkiv maternity ward to a bomb shelter. Amid mattresses piled up against the walls, pregnant women paced the crowded space to the cries of dozens of newborns.

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Zelenskyy called the attack on the city's main square “frank, undisguised terror. Nobody will forgive. Nobody will forget. This attack on Kharkiv is a war crime.”
Zelenskyy said he believes Russian shelling of civilian areas is an attempt by Russia to put pressure on Ukraine to make concessions. No peace deal can be reached “when one side is hitting another with rocket artillery,” he said.
In Geneva, dozens of diplomats from the U.S., the U.K. and other European countries walked out in protest when Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov was addressing the UN Human Rights Council and Conference on Disarmament.
*THE NEWS COMES TO YOU: * Get the latest updates on the situation in Ukraine. Sign up here





*Latest updates:*
►At least two international humanitarian groups accused Russia of using cluster bombs, which open in the air and rain down multiple explosives over a wide area with little accuracy. Moscow denied the allegation.
►In Moscow, people lined up to withdraw cash as sanctions imposed by the West threatened to drive up prices and reduce the standard of living for millions of ordinary Russians. The Russian currency plunged, making the ruble worth less than a penny.
►At least 677,000 refugees have already fled from Ukraine into neighboring countries, most to Poland, said Filippo Grandi, the U.N. high commissioner for refugees.
►Zelenskyy, in an address to the European parliament Tuesday, said his country is fighting "to be equal members of Europe. We have proven that, as a minimum, we are the same as you.”

►The State Department has closed the U.S. Embassy in Belarus, a Russian neighbor and supporter, and is allowing non-essential staff at the U.S. Embassy in Russia to leave the country.
►The Swiss-based company that built the Nord Stream 2 pipeline that was supposed to transport gas from Russia to Germany before it was shut down by sanctions may file for bankruptcy, Reuters reported.
*TRACK THE INVASION:*Satellite images, surveillance footage, social media posts show the latest on the war in Ukraine
*USA TODAY FACT CHECK ROUNDUP:*What's true and what's false about the Russian invasion of Ukraine
Ukraine: Attack on TV tower kills 5, damages Babi Yar Holocaust Center​Russian strikes on Kyiv’s TV tower killed five people, wounded others and damaged the Babi Yar Holocaust Memorial Center, Ukrainian authorities said. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's office tweeted that a "powerful barrage" was underway and that a missile hit the center.
The Nazis shot tens of thousands of people at Babi Yar, including almost the entire Jewish population of Kyiv.
"To the world: what is the point of saying 'never again' for 80 years, if the world stays silent when a bomb drops on the same site of Babyn Yar?" Zerenskyy tweeted. "At least 5 killed. History repeating…"





US official: Russian force may be regrouping​The 40-mile convoy approaching Kyiv has made little progress because of resistance and a lack of gas and food, according to a senior U.S. Defense Department official who briefed reporters on condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence findings.
The official said the Russians also are likely protecting the convoy, explaining why it does not appear to have been attacked. The airspace over Ukraine continues to be contested by Ukrainian and Russian forces, the official said.

There are also signs that there are morale problems among Russian troops, many of whom have been drafted into service, the official said, declining to say how the Pentagon has made that assessment. Many of the soldiers are young men who have not been thoroughly trained or even aware why they were sent to Ukraine.
The Russians, however, have a potent force in and around Ukraine, the official said.
The Russians have systems capable of launching thermobaric weapons in Ukraine, the official said. Those fuel-air weapons are used primarily to kill people on the ground or in bunkers.
–_ Tom Vanden Brook_
Ukraine refugees find open doors through online sites​At a time when desperate Ukrainians are fleeing their country by the hundreds of thousands, online connections are helping them find refuge in other countries.
Facebook groups such as Host A Sister and Accommodation, Help & Shelter for Ukraine are among the sites serving as a link between those escaping the war in Ukraine and hosts willing to open their doors to them.
Iryna Yarmolenko, who served as a council member for the Ukrainian city of Bucha, fled with her mother and 5-year-old son last week and found a safe place with a couple in Lublin, Poland, after posting a request for help on the Host A Sister page.
"Even if it was just with their words: 'Iryna, we are here. Tell me what you need,' ... I felt myself not so alone." she said. "I was totally broken because I left all my stuff, all my dreams, all my house, all my career, all my everything."
_– Bailey Schulz and Eve Chen_
Ice skating, skiing and basketball join growing list of sports entities barring Russians​
In addition to the economic sanctions piling up against Russia for invading Ukraine, the sports bans continue to mount.
On Tuesday, Russia was barred from competing in international ice skating, skiing, basketball, track and some tennis events, a day after being kicked out of soccer competitions and hockey – President Vladimir Putin’s favorite team sport. The decisions follow the IOC’s request to international sports federations to keep Russian athletes out of events they organize.
The International Skating Union, which runs the sport around the world, said it won't allow any competitors from Russia to participate in its events, which would exclude Olympic champion Anna Shcherbakova and 15-year-old star Kamila Valieva from the world figure skating championships in France later this month. Athletes from Belarus, which has supported Russia's attack, will also be barred.
Court will look into whether Russia has committed war crimes. What exactly are they?​Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has accused Russia of committing war crimes during the invasion, and the International Criminal Court's prosecutor said he would investigate.
But what exactly are war crimes? Are they attacks on civilian populations? Launching rockets into residential areas? Other forms of cruelty in what's an inherently brutal endeavor like war?
The definition of a war crime has evolved over time, but Dustin Lewis, research director for the Harvard Law School Program on International Law and Armed Conflict, said it encompasses two criteria.
"First, the conduct must be committed with a sufficient connection to an armed conflict,'' he said. "Second, the conduct must constitute a serious violation of the laws and customs of international humanitarian law that has been criminalized by international treaty or customary law."
_– Ryan W. Miller_
Mayor describes Kharkiv's situation as 'pretty grave'​Kharkiv Mayor Ihor Terekhov said Tuesday that his government remained in control but said the city is surrounded by Russian troops.

“Military equipment and armored vehicles are coming from different directions,” he told The Washington Post in a phone interview.
Terekhov said a government building and the opera and ballet theater were among buildings shelled. Transformer stations were also struck by artillery, cutting off power to much of the city, he said. The shelling stalled efforts to supply the city with food and medical supplies, he said.
“There are casualties, and by now, there are certainly a lot more of them, after the night and morning shelling,” he told the Post. “The situation is pretty grave.”






Diplomats in Geneva walk out on Lavrov speech​More than 100 diplomats from dozens of nations walked out on a speech by Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov to the U.N. Human Rights Council on Tuesday in protest of the invasion. Lavrov spoke remotely from Russia because he said his flight path to Geneva was blocked by governments that closed their airspace to Russian planes. He accused the West of "Russophobic frenzy."
Ambassador Michèle Taylor, the U.S. representative to the council, said the diplomats were working to ensure Russia's leaders were held accountable for the "illegal war" against Ukraine.
"As widespread human rights abuses continue + civilian casualties mount, we #StandwithUkraine in rejecting Lavrov’s lies," Taylor tweeted. "Russia is isolated."
Actor Sean Penn flees Ukraine on foot​Filmmaker and actor Sean Penn confirmed he has evacuated to Poland after spending time in Ukraine working on a documentary about the conflict. The actor shared a photo of himself Monday carrying a suitcase while walking along the side of a backed-up highway as many others attempted to flee Ukraine.
"Myself & two colleagues walked miles to the Polish border after abandoning our car on the side of the road," Penn wrote. "Almost all the cars in this photo carry women & children only, most without any sign of luggage, and a car their only possession of value."
Penn said Putin has made a "most horrible mistake for all of humankind" and that Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and the Ukrainian people "have risen as historic symbols of courage and principle. Ukraine is the tip of the spear for the democratic embrace of dreams."
Penn's visit drew accolades from Zelenskyy.
"Sean Penn demonstrates the courage that many others, especially western politicians lack," the president's office wrote on Facebook. "The director specially came to Kiev to record all the events that are currently happening in Ukraine and to tell the world the truth about Russia's invasion of our country."
–_ Elise Brisco_
Cities under siege: A look at Kyiv and Kharkiv by the numbers​The war has thrown a global spotlight on Ukraine's two largest cities, Kyiv and Kharkiv. Kyiv's (KEE-ev) population of 2.7 million people would make it the third largest in the U.S. slightly ahead of Chicago. The city covers 330 square miles – bigger than Chicago or New York, about the size of San Diego. Kyiv is in north central Ukraine, not far from the borders with Russia and Belarus. Ukrainian and Russian are commonly spoken in the city, among the oldest in Eastern Europe.
Kharkiv (kar-KEEV), 300 miles east of Kyiv and near the Russian border, has a population of about 1.4 million spread over about 135 square miles – about the size of Philadelphia, which has a population of about 1.5 million.
Ukraine has a population of about 44 million people, 4 million more than California, and is about 233,000 square miles – a bit smaller than Texas.
NATO chief says nuclear alert level unchanged​NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg on Tuesday visited troops in Poland with Polish President Andrzej Duda. Poland shares a border with Ukraine, and the air base in the central Poland city of Lask is home to NATO’s Polish and U.S. F-15 and F-16 fighter jets.
"We are increasing our presence in the east to defend & protect our people," Stoltenberg said in a social media post. "Allies are stepping up support for #Ukraine & imposing costs on #Russia. The world stands with Ukraine in calling for peace."
Despite Russia’s threats about nuclear weapons, the alliance sees no need to change its nuclear weapons alert level, Stoltenberg said. And while Ukraine is not a member of NATO, it is the alliance's responsibility to “ensure that we don’t see a development where a conflict in Ukraine spiraled out of control and becomes a full-fledged confrontation between NATO and Russia in Europe."





Google, other big tech firms grapple with Russian state media, propaganda​Big tech platforms have begun restricting Russian state media from using their platforms to spread propaganda and misinformation. Google announced Tuesday that it's blocking the YouTube channels of those outlets in Europe effective immediately but said it could take some time to get all of them removed. Other U.S.-owned tech companies have also taken steps, including labeling more content so people know it originated with the Russian government and cutting Russian state organizations off from ad revenue.
The changes are intended to slow the Kremlin from pumping propaganda into social media feeds without persuading Russian officials to block their citizens from access to platforms during a crucial time of war, said Katie Harbath, a former public policy director for Facebook. *Read more here*.
"They’re trying to walk this very fine line; they’re doing this dance,” she said.
War threatens Russian space partnerships with US, Europe​Russia's invasion of Ukraine has raised concerns about the country's relationship with the United States in space, a union that has remained intact despite geopolitical rifts between the two countries.
Four NASA astronauts, two Russian cosmonauts and one European Space Agency astronaut are stationed aboard the International Space Station, their home traveling 17,500 mph some 200 mile above Earth – where Russia has drawn international rebuke for its invasion of Ukraine. NASA astronaut Mark Vande Hei is scheduled to return March 30 aboard a Russian spacecraft.
President Joe Biden has promised sanctions will target the Russian aerospace industry, a warning that led to a tweet from Russian space chief Dmitry Rogozin asking "who will save the ISS from an uncontrolled deorbit and fall into the United States or Europe."
The European Space Agency also works with Russia. A planned launch of a European-Russian mission to Mars this year is "very unlikely," the space agency said Monday.
– _Emre Kelly, Florida Today_



Artillery kills over 70 Ukrainian soldiers at military base, official says​More than 70 Ukrainian soldiers were killed after Russian artillery hit a military base in Okhtyrka, a city between Kharkiv and Kyiv, the head of the region wrote on Telegram. Dmytro Zhyvytskyy posted photographs of the charred shell of a four-story building and rescuers searching rubble. In a later Facebook post, he said many Russian soldiers and some residents also were killed during the fighting on Sunday. The report could not immediately be confirmed.
_– Celina Tebor_
Disney, Sony Pictures, Warner Bros. halt release of films in Russia​The Walt Disney Co., Sony Pictures Entertainment and Warner Bros. are joining the list of businesses retaliating against Russia over its invasion of Ukraine. Disney is pausing the release of theatrical films in Russia, including the upcoming “Turning Red” from Pixar, in response to the attack, the company said in a statement Monday. Disney said it is working with nongovernmental organizations to provide aid and other humanitarian assistance to refugees.
WarnerMedia is putting the release of The Batman on hold in Russia. The film starring Robert Pattinson had been set to open in Russia on Thursday. “We will continue to monitor the situation as it evolves,” Warner Bros. said in a statement. “We hope for a swift and peaceful resolution to this tragedy.”
Sony Pictures is also pausing planned theatrical releases in Russia, including the upcoming release of Morbius, which is due out in early April,
"Our thoughts and prayers are with all those who have been impacted and hope this crisis will be resolved quickly," Sony Pictures told USA TODAY in a statement.
_– Michael Collins_
Mastercard blocks financial institutions over sanctions on Russia​Mastercard announced Monday that it was blocking "multiple financial institutions from the Mastercard payment network" as a result of sanctions imposed on Russia over its invasion of Ukraine. The U.S.-based financial services company said in a statement it will continue to work with regulators to stay in compliance and is actively monitoring and preparing to respond to cyberattacks. Mastercard also said it would donate $2 million in humanitarian relief.
The U.S. and EU have sanctioned top Kremin officials and Russian elites as well as taken steps to remove Russian banks from the SWIFT network, which allows for payments between financial institutions, and to restrict Russia’s use of its massive foreign currency reserves.
_– Celina Tebor
Contributing: The Associated Press_


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## HAIDER

RescueRanger said:


> Speaking of Leon:
> Boris Johnson hints UK's 'Lads' Army' could be treated like TERRORISTS on return from Ukraine as he urges them NOT to join Zelensky's civilian fightback - as city banker whose hero is George Orwell and gym boss join ex-SAS soldiers making way to frontline​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> British volunteers head to Ukrainian embassy to fight against Russia
> 
> 
> Giving a speech in Estonia today, Prime Minister warned Britons wanting to join Ukraine in their war with Russia that they could be breaking UK laws by taking part in the fighting.
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk


Mr. Leon's dream shattered ... soon Putin invade the Carrabean islands .. He can join the brothers ...

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498641628478726149

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## gambit

NotSure said:


> A group of men in Cherson tried to attack a russian convoy with molotov cocktails from the woods around the street. So the convoy opened fire, seems like 30mm HE or so, because even the trees got cut down like nothing. Not even talking about the men, so i will not post the video.
> 
> My point is: Selensky and Co. are responsible too for this mess. They gave the order to arm civilians with molotov cocktails etc. Because they want as many ukr. civilians dead as possible. To get Nato dragged in and making the peace process at the end as hard as possible!


Let us get international laws straight...As much as laws can be in wars...

Technically speaking, the correct words are 'combatant' and 'non-combatant'. That mean a civilian can be a combatant, and that is not wordplay. Resistance or partisan fighters are civilians but also are combatants. Guerrilla fighters are civilians as well combatants. Most military members are combatants. Why 'most'? Because chaplains and medics are non-combatants. Chaplains are forbidden to carry arms. Medics can carry arms for self protection and to protect the wounded under their care, but they are non-combatants. If a medic become a member of an attacking force take part in an attack, then he lost his non-combatant status. But if all he does is respond to calls for his service, then he remains a non-combatant.

You can kill a combatant but not a non-combatant. It is a war crime to kill non-combatants.

The leader of a country have the moral right to call civilians to arms for defense of country. If anyone respond, he becomes a combatant. He can fight with his own weapons or that issued to him by the government or by the resistance organization. He can even fight with his bare hands if he want.

For any civilian to be a combatant, he must distinguish himself somehow. He can wear the uniform of the military, or he can, with other civilians, wear some unique piece of clothing to show they are combatants. The Geneva Convention does not require a formal uniform as that of the military. Just as long as the civilian display a unique outerwear of some kind to show that he is a combatant.



Doctors without borders | The Practical Guide to Humanitarian Law



According to the Third Geneva Convention, combatants are:

members of the armed forces of a party to the conflict, as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces (GCIII Art. 4.a.1); or
members of regular armed forces, even those that profess allegiance to a government or authority not recognized by the adverse power (GCIII Art. 4.a.3); or
members of other militias and members of volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements belonging to a party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfill the following conditions:
that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
that of carrying arms openly;
that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war (GCIII Art. 4.a.2);

inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war (GCIII Art. 4.a.6).

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## Madni Bappa

There is soooo much disinfo from Ukrainian camp. They've been showing their own destroyed, damaged or disabled equipment as Russian.

I also get the distinct feeling that Israeli/Jewish lobbies are heavily involved in this war and wanting to incite a greater conflict that drags NATO and US in vs Russia, China and anyone who sides with them.


Lastly, this war has removed mask from White European Judeo Christian supremacist centric way of thinking in this new world order. Many non-white people in Latin America, Africa, MENA and Asia are calling West out on their two faced hypocrisy. Especially muslims who were attacked by the same Western military and media might.



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498641628478726149


These "military exercises" as Ukrainian disinfo keeps calling them is about to become their nightmare 😂

I still don't think Russians want to use full force. They're being quite diligent.

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## HAIDER

RescueRanger said:


> And Pakistanis think Sheikh Rasheed is an embarrassment on TV:
> View attachment 819966


Tag Mr Leon ... this is the best ambush strategy .... just in case if already left for Ukraine..

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## Zibago

RescueRanger said:


> Don’t worry sir, I’ve got you covered too:


Its the most beautiful thing I have ever seen 😍

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## Madni Bappa

Genghis khan1 said:


> Christian Zionist religious believe, Russians along with Arab (Muslims) will be on the opposing (evil) side to them and their final return of massiah.
> 
> Basically thei Dajjal is supported by Russians and Muslims end if times false prophet. That’s what they been preaching to their people.


I wouldn't put it past these far right Nazis

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## Vergennes

Madni Bappa said:


> There is soooo much disinfo from Ukrainian camp. They've been showing their own destroyed, damaged or disabled equipment as Russian.



Do you have any examples of your claim ? Because destroyed or damaged Russian equipments are easily differentiated from Ukrainian ones. 

Some people can't just take it that the "second's most powerful army" is being bullied in Ukraine and that the amount of equipment destroyed or abandoned is astonishing.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498778718256476160

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## Madni Bappa

RescueRanger said:


> Speaking of Leon:
> Boris Johnson hints UK's 'Lads' Army' could be treated like TERRORISTS on return from Ukraine as he urges them NOT to join Zelensky's civilian fightback - as city banker whose hero is George Orwell and gym boss join ex-SAS soldiers making way to frontline​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> British volunteers head to Ukrainian embassy to fight against Russia
> 
> 
> Giving a speech in Estonia today, Prime Minister warned Britons wanting to join Ukraine in their war with Russia that they could be breaking UK laws by taking part in the fighting.
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk


Sounds almost like Lord's Army. Putin was right Ukraine is getting support from far right Nazis.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> 1.) I meant that on 20th, US told them that Russia effectively telexed their commanders an attack plan, and Ukrainian pres didn't call for mobilisation, and draft. It cost them 3-4 days, and ability to do the last minute resupply.
> 
> 2.) The East Ukraine holds the most remarkable actually, with a lot of armour kills, thus not much reports of fighting with armour there now, but about Russians doing hide & seek, in woods around Kharkiv, and retreating behind the border in few cases.
> 
> Donetsk direction had almost a half of all Ukrainian heavy units, because they were there since 2014. It seems it actually working, and well supplied to hold on for quite some time.
> 
> 3.) I checked few maps, there are no woodlands in the south, as its almost all agricultural land, and very open fields. My guess they were very afraid of scattered ATGM teams, which effectively outrange Russian tanks, and waited for solid air cover to regroup in larger formations before the push.
> 
> And I guess, they are also afraid of a chance for cutoff, as I shown on a map few days ago.
> 
> 4.) True, but they got there, just very slowly. Legacy Soviet logistics hurts Ukraine as much as Russians.
> 
> 5.) Ukraine had a lot of initiative early on, they had an option to spare at least something to keep it for longer.
> 
> 6.) Important to say that Russians had enormous early push completely destroyed in woods north of Kiyv, after which they decided to avoid woods, and go through more open terrain around. Their force in Belo was already 40% spent around late 27th. Ukrainians definitely had an option to sent some men forwards at least to blow up some bridges, and let sappers to their job (mining.)
> 
> Look at google maps on Ukrainian Belorussian border, terrible terrain, dense woodlands, multiple rivers, and swamps. This is why they captured Chernobyl first of all things.
> 
> If they had them still pinned in woods, their attrition rate would've been much more favourable, and they would've won more time, even at the price of these forces.
> 
> 7.) Do they need to save them for counterbat when they know that they will not have such opportunity in the future? It would've been the best to spend them early on to inflict maximum casualties on pinned enemy forces in first days. Instead, even now I see videos dated 1st of March of assorted MLRS, and tube artillery coming from the West of the country to somewhere without accompanying force. They probably think they still can reach Kiyv to meaningfully employ these MLRS.
> 
> 8.) Indeed, I wrote on this seashift 2 days ago. It was Ukrainian overexuberance about getting precision weapons which clouded their vision about them having to fight world's No.2 military by size. These days, NATO military thinkers too are often forgetting the importance of raw firepower.
> 
> 9.)
> 
> 11.)
> 
> 12.)
> 
> 13.) It seems to be the siege warfare now, but they had an opportunity to delay this a lot, and get more supplies to territorials in Kiyv, which are numerous, but lack heavy weapons.
> 
> 14.) I think your are right, and they are not really afraid of scattered ATGM teams which harass them. They just wait for regroup, while absorbing the damage in the South. But... Ukrainians still can blow up more bridges there, and delay them by a lot.
> 
> 15.)


1.) True, not saying Zelenskyy's nonchalant attuited did not cost Ukraine, had they listened to US intel as early as Nov 2021, they would have probably better prepared than now, on the other hand, we don't actually know how much Ukrainian had prepared. And as I said, EU/US assume Ukraine is going to fold in the first 3 days, that's why they hold off sending aids to them, which also hamper the supply problem. Don't forget the Ukrainian have extensively used their air asset (Fighter/Bomber/Drone) in the first 6 days of war, there are always going to be a respite on the supply issue.

2.) That is the different between regular force and TDF, regular force is quite battle harden, but the downside is that they are smaller than the traditional force, On the other hand, the Order of Battle see Ukraine deployed 6 combat Brigade to Eastern Command, rather than the 3 or 4 in all other command. That is a given, as they are fighting with Russia/separatist since 2014.

What Russia did essentially is what we did during the first Gulf War. The obvious route of advance is form the East, (as with Iraq Southern Border with Saudi) Which is why Russia did not largely move their Eastern Asset because they want to pin the most concentrated force in place and flank Ukraine with a Armor run, which is like what we did we posted the Marine 2nd Division to pin the Iraq Republican Guard that were in Kuwait/Saudi Border and then flank the Iraqi thru the Western Desert. Only that we make strong progress in Iraq (I think the ground war only lasted 4 days, maybe 5) and the Russian is still fighting in most of the outskirt on day 7.

3.) Sorry was meant to say flat land. The problem is that Russia still have not control the air even after day 6, running large Armor Column in open field is going to make it easy prey on Ukrainian Air Asset.

Also, it's worth notice that the tradition engagement distant for Javelin is 800-1200 meters, somewhat within T-80/ T-90 gun range (Which is about 1500), technically, you can engage Russia Armor with Javelin (Not sure what is the spec of N-LAW) outside T80/T-90 Gun range at 2000 meter, but the operator would have to be very skilful, because there are a lot of adjustment to make, and I am not sure if Ukrainian are that skilled on using Javelin. So I would suggest that they are probably engaging Russian Armor at range about 800 to 1000 meters

4.) That's the problem I mentioned in my first assessment of the situation. By now, front line Russia troop are looking at fuel and munition because the initial LOGPAK is most likely exhausted, hence all the long column (40km or something) of supply and reinforcement. Now, If you are the Russian, you are looking at set up base to refuel and resupply your unit, you will be hit with a dilemma. Put it inside your front line troop, you keep the pressure and resupply the troop at the same time then they are vulnerable of getting attacked. Setting it BEHIND the line, then you will only be able to pull a small amount of troop each time to resupply them, and it took a long time, because that mean you need to pull troop offline and put it back in, and you cant pull everyone out of the line at once.

I am pretty sure the original battleplan for Russia would have them already occupied Kyiv by now, or maybe even beyond that, that is the reason why you see Supply column unescorted, because they probably is following the original plan and the front line would have been 10-20KM further ahead. 

On the other hand, Ukrainian resupply depends on type of resupply, there aren't a big range of option (I don't think Supply by air is an option at all for the Ukrainian) which mean what they are doing is to haul their supply from designated weapon cache to frontline. It is impossible for them to pip any weapon they receive from the West thru western border to the East, Well, they can, but it take time. What I would do if I was the Ukrainian is that I will Lay out Resupply point. So the new supply coming from EU will be going to Kyiv or Dnipro and then send supply from Kyiv and Dnipro to the East.

Both side would have supply problem now, but Russia would have more option.

5.) Well, there are still 40000 Russian Troop near Brest, they have to anchor a bulk amount of troop in the West to prepare for that arm of invasion. You can pipe small unit to help out but that would not do much because I think at most you can sent is platoon level.

6.) Latest US intelligence suggested 75% of Russian troop in all of their staging area are deployed. And you cannot expect the Russian not to adapt to how Ukrainian fight b now. If the Ukrainian is smart, they would have minded or trap the main road as a secondary line of defence, you fight them in the wood, which force them out in the open, and if you mined or trapped the road, they would have a easier fight, but I have no idea whether or not Ukrainian did that.

7.) Well, If this is the western doctrine, yes, there are not much of use for artillery at this point other than working as a Counter Battery fire or probably soften up the rear staging area. The Russian is already at Kyiv door step, they are not 10 mile away (their resupply column is) which mean now is the time they gather all their Support element and use them at once. This is what we did during the siege in Khe Shan, compare to what the French did during Dien Bien Phu, they separate their arty and put them in the hill around the base, which is the first to fall so when they were under siege, arty can't help them and they lose and we survive Khe Shan.

But then that is just what I would do, I can't speak for Ukrainian.

8.) Precision strike is only good when you are at stand off range, it give you the tempo by interfere theirs. At this point, there are not much going on but street by street fighting, which make Precision strike pointless. But ideally, you would need both. And Ideally, NATO would not be under sieged the sheer volume of air power would disperse the Russian before they can mount any siege, I mean just look at how Russia run their battlefield, and if Ukraine have 1/4 of NATO Air Power, Things are going to be a lot different. 

13.) I would say they already did delay this alot. The siege of Lyiv still has not start on Day 7, and most Military Pundit would give the entire Russian Operation 2 - 3 weeks top, after that the ability of Russia to keep the pressure without mobilising another 200,000 troop is in doubt. And they can't mobilise troop without public support. Bear in mind, they still have 4 to 5 key objective, Odessa (If they want to make Ukraine landlock) and Dnipro is largely untouched, Russia still have not control Kyiv and Mariupol, and Kharkiv is probably the next one to fall (Actually Kharkiv and Marupol is neck to neck) . Can they really do all these in the next 14 days? That is the question. And that is assume they don't want a piece of Western Action, which would be a mistake not to attack Lutsk or even Lviv, because that would become insurgent strong hold.

I don't know, if it was the Russian force on the first week, no, if they wised up? Maybe.

14.) Harassing fire is a type of delay action, it probably become pointless when they are already reaching their destination. I mean sure, you can still take pot shot here and there, but largely will not affect the main force.

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## lastofthepatriots

Russians already burning their casualties...

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## Kyusuibu Honbu




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## Maula Jatt

lastofthepatriots said:


> Ruskis already burning their casualties...
> 
> View attachment 819969


Good to see 🌝


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## lastofthepatriots

Sainthood 101 said:


> Good to see 🌝


Not good for the loved ones of the soldiers.


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## Maula Jatt

lastofthepatriots said:


> Not good for the loved ones of the soldiers.


Shouldn't have invaded someone else's lands


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## Madni Bappa

Vergennes said:


> Do you have any examples of your claim ? Because destroyed or damaged Russian equipments are easily differentiated from Ukrainian ones.
> 
> Some people can't just take it that the "second's most powerful army" is being bullied in Ukraine and that the amount of equipment destroyed or abandoned is astonishing.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498778718256476160


There's many examples. One specific if Ukrainian disinfo claiming to capture a Russian officer and making him say Slava Ukraini. But the guy was one of their own Nazi militias. 

His pictures are in this thread if you go back a few pages. 

There's tons of other sh!t like this. So far I believe only Russian Ka52 being shot down and IVECO LAVs being destroyed are real. 

Especially Ukrainian destroyed AD systems being claimed as Russian is total BS.

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## Vergennes

Madni Bappa said:


> There's tons of other sh!t like this. So far I believe only Russian Ka52 being shot down and IVECO LAVs being destroyed are real.
> 
> Especially Ukrainian destroyed AD systems being claimed as Russian is total BS.



Continue to live in your own lala land,everything is just zionist propaganda I guess lol,when all the hardware destroyed shown aren't even in Ukraine's inventory or if they are,of different versions,easily recognizable.

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## Khan vilatey

khansaheeb said:


> https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-01-22/index.html
> 
> 
> POLITICS
> Russia's 40-mile convoy appears to have bogged down 15 miles from Kyiv; shells pound Ukrainian city of Kharkiv. Live updates.​Tom Vanden BrookJohn BaconJorge L. OrtizCelina Tebor
> USA TODAY
> 
> 0:17
> 1:29
> A massive, 40-mile convoy of Russian tanks and vehicles appeared to bog down on its push toward the capital of Kyiv on Tuesday while residential areas of Kharkiv, Ukraine's second-largest city, were being pounded by Russian shells.
> The Russian military advance drew to within 15 miles of Kyiv’s center amid signs that troops are running out of gas and food, a senior U.S. Defense Department official said Tuesday. Russia has committed about 80% of the combat force President Vladimir Putin deployed to invade Ukraine, the official said.
> Ukrainian resistance is continuing, and it has helped stymie the advance, according to the official who briefed reporters on condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence findings. It is also possible the Russians are pausing to regroup and reassess their attack, the official said.
> 
> Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said he spoke with President Joe Biden on Tuesday concerning Russian sanctions and defense assistance to Ukraine. The White House confirmed that they spoke for more than 30 minutes.
> "We must stop the aggressor as soon as possible," Zelenskyy tweeted. "Thank you for your support!"
> Biden is expected to speak about the crisis in Ukraine on Tuesday night as part of his State of the Union address to a joint session of Congress. Here's how to watch Biden's speech.
> 
> In Kharkiv, at least 11 people were killed and 35 wounded in the rocket strike, Interior Ministry adviser Anton Herashchenko said, adding that the death toll is expected to rise. Closed-circuit television footage showed a fireball engulfing a street in front of one building, and a few cars rolled out of the billowing smoke.
> Hospital workers transferred a Kharkiv maternity ward to a bomb shelter. Amid mattresses piled up against the walls, pregnant women paced the crowded space to the cries of dozens of newborns.
> 
> Get the Everyone's Talking newsletter in your inbox.
> Get caught up with the trending news you need to know
> Delivery: Mon - Fri
> 
> Zelenskyy called the attack on the city's main square “frank, undisguised terror. Nobody will forgive. Nobody will forget. This attack on Kharkiv is a war crime.”
> Zelenskyy said he believes Russian shelling of civilian areas is an attempt by Russia to put pressure on Ukraine to make concessions. No peace deal can be reached “when one side is hitting another with rocket artillery,” he said.
> In Geneva, dozens of diplomats from the U.S., the U.K. and other European countries walked out in protest when Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov was addressing the UN Human Rights Council and Conference on Disarmament.
> *THE NEWS COMES TO YOU: * Get the latest updates on the situation in Ukraine. Sign up here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Latest updates:*
> ►At least two international humanitarian groups accused Russia of using cluster bombs, which open in the air and rain down multiple explosives over a wide area with little accuracy. Moscow denied the allegation.
> ►In Moscow, people lined up to withdraw cash as sanctions imposed by the West threatened to drive up prices and reduce the standard of living for millions of ordinary Russians. The Russian currency plunged, making the ruble worth less than a penny.
> ►At least 677,000 refugees have already fled from Ukraine into neighboring countries, most to Poland, said Filippo Grandi, the U.N. high commissioner for refugees.
> ►Zelenskyy, in an address to the European parliament Tuesday, said his country is fighting "to be equal members of Europe. We have proven that, as a minimum, we are the same as you.”
> 
> ►The State Department has closed the U.S. Embassy in Belarus, a Russian neighbor and supporter, and is allowing non-essential staff at the U.S. Embassy in Russia to leave the country.
> ►The Swiss-based company that built the Nord Stream 2 pipeline that was supposed to transport gas from Russia to Germany before it was shut down by sanctions may file for bankruptcy, Reuters reported.
> *TRACK THE INVASION:*Satellite images, surveillance footage, social media posts show the latest on the war in Ukraine
> *USA TODAY FACT CHECK ROUNDUP:*What's true and what's false about the Russian invasion of Ukraine
> Ukraine: Attack on TV tower kills 5, damages Babi Yar Holocaust Center​Russian strikes on Kyiv’s TV tower killed five people, wounded others and damaged the Babi Yar Holocaust Memorial Center, Ukrainian authorities said. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's office tweeted that a "powerful barrage" was underway and that a missile hit the center.
> The Nazis shot tens of thousands of people at Babi Yar, including almost the entire Jewish population of Kyiv.
> "To the world: what is the point of saying 'never again' for 80 years, if the world stays silent when a bomb drops on the same site of Babyn Yar?" Zerenskyy tweeted. "At least 5 killed. History repeating…"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US official: Russian force may be regrouping​The 40-mile convoy approaching Kyiv has made little progress because of resistance and a lack of gas and food, according to a senior U.S. Defense Department official who briefed reporters on condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence findings.
> The official said the Russians also are likely protecting the convoy, explaining why it does not appear to have been attacked. The airspace over Ukraine continues to be contested by Ukrainian and Russian forces, the official said.
> 
> There are also signs that there are morale problems among Russian troops, many of whom have been drafted into service, the official said, declining to say how the Pentagon has made that assessment. Many of the soldiers are young men who have not been thoroughly trained or even aware why they were sent to Ukraine.
> The Russians, however, have a potent force in and around Ukraine, the official said.
> The Russians have systems capable of launching thermobaric weapons in Ukraine, the official said. Those fuel-air weapons are used primarily to kill people on the ground or in bunkers.
> –_ Tom Vanden Brook_
> Ukraine refugees find open doors through online sites​At a time when desperate Ukrainians are fleeing their country by the hundreds of thousands, online connections are helping them find refuge in other countries.
> Facebook groups such as Host A Sister and Accommodation, Help & Shelter for Ukraine are among the sites serving as a link between those escaping the war in Ukraine and hosts willing to open their doors to them.
> Iryna Yarmolenko, who served as a council member for the Ukrainian city of Bucha, fled with her mother and 5-year-old son last week and found a safe place with a couple in Lublin, Poland, after posting a request for help on the Host A Sister page.
> "Even if it was just with their words: 'Iryna, we are here. Tell me what you need,' ... I felt myself not so alone." she said. "I was totally broken because I left all my stuff, all my dreams, all my house, all my career, all my everything."
> _– Bailey Schulz and Eve Chen_
> Ice skating, skiing and basketball join growing list of sports entities barring Russians​
> In addition to the economic sanctions piling up against Russia for invading Ukraine, the sports bans continue to mount.
> On Tuesday, Russia was barred from competing in international ice skating, skiing, basketball, track and some tennis events, a day after being kicked out of soccer competitions and hockey – President Vladimir Putin’s favorite team sport. The decisions follow the IOC’s request to international sports federations to keep Russian athletes out of events they organize.
> The International Skating Union, which runs the sport around the world, said it won't allow any competitors from Russia to participate in its events, which would exclude Olympic champion Anna Shcherbakova and 15-year-old star Kamila Valieva from the world figure skating championships in France later this month. Athletes from Belarus, which has supported Russia's attack, will also be barred.
> Court will look into whether Russia has committed war crimes. What exactly are they?​Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has accused Russia of committing war crimes during the invasion, and the International Criminal Court's prosecutor said he would investigate.
> But what exactly are war crimes? Are they attacks on civilian populations? Launching rockets into residential areas? Other forms of cruelty in what's an inherently brutal endeavor like war?
> The definition of a war crime has evolved over time, but Dustin Lewis, research director for the Harvard Law School Program on International Law and Armed Conflict, said it encompasses two criteria.
> "First, the conduct must be committed with a sufficient connection to an armed conflict,'' he said. "Second, the conduct must constitute a serious violation of the laws and customs of international humanitarian law that has been criminalized by international treaty or customary law."
> _– Ryan W. Miller_
> Mayor describes Kharkiv's situation as 'pretty grave'​Kharkiv Mayor Ihor Terekhov said Tuesday that his government remained in control but said the city is surrounded by Russian troops.
> 
> “Military equipment and armored vehicles are coming from different directions,” he told The Washington Post in a phone interview.
> Terekhov said a government building and the opera and ballet theater were among buildings shelled. Transformer stations were also struck by artillery, cutting off power to much of the city, he said. The shelling stalled efforts to supply the city with food and medical supplies, he said.
> “There are casualties, and by now, there are certainly a lot more of them, after the night and morning shelling,” he told the Post. “The situation is pretty grave.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Diplomats in Geneva walk out on Lavrov speech​More than 100 diplomats from dozens of nations walked out on a speech by Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov to the U.N. Human Rights Council on Tuesday in protest of the invasion. Lavrov spoke remotely from Russia because he said his flight path to Geneva was blocked by governments that closed their airspace to Russian planes. He accused the West of "Russophobic frenzy."
> Ambassador Michèle Taylor, the U.S. representative to the council, said the diplomats were working to ensure Russia's leaders were held accountable for the "illegal war" against Ukraine.
> "As widespread human rights abuses continue + civilian casualties mount, we #StandwithUkraine in rejecting Lavrov’s lies," Taylor tweeted. "Russia is isolated."
> Actor Sean Penn flees Ukraine on foot​Filmmaker and actor Sean Penn confirmed he has evacuated to Poland after spending time in Ukraine working on a documentary about the conflict. The actor shared a photo of himself Monday carrying a suitcase while walking along the side of a backed-up highway as many others attempted to flee Ukraine.
> "Myself & two colleagues walked miles to the Polish border after abandoning our car on the side of the road," Penn wrote. "Almost all the cars in this photo carry women & children only, most without any sign of luggage, and a car their only possession of value."
> Penn said Putin has made a "most horrible mistake for all of humankind" and that Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and the Ukrainian people "have risen as historic symbols of courage and principle. Ukraine is the tip of the spear for the democratic embrace of dreams."
> Penn's visit drew accolades from Zelenskyy.
> "Sean Penn demonstrates the courage that many others, especially western politicians lack," the president's office wrote on Facebook. "The director specially came to Kiev to record all the events that are currently happening in Ukraine and to tell the world the truth about Russia's invasion of our country."
> –_ Elise Brisco_
> Cities under siege: A look at Kyiv and Kharkiv by the numbers​The war has thrown a global spotlight on Ukraine's two largest cities, Kyiv and Kharkiv. Kyiv's (KEE-ev) population of 2.7 million people would make it the third largest in the U.S. slightly ahead of Chicago. The city covers 330 square miles – bigger than Chicago or New York, about the size of San Diego. Kyiv is in north central Ukraine, not far from the borders with Russia and Belarus. Ukrainian and Russian are commonly spoken in the city, among the oldest in Eastern Europe.
> Kharkiv (kar-KEEV), 300 miles east of Kyiv and near the Russian border, has a population of about 1.4 million spread over about 135 square miles – about the size of Philadelphia, which has a population of about 1.5 million.
> Ukraine has a population of about 44 million people, 4 million more than California, and is about 233,000 square miles – a bit smaller than Texas.
> NATO chief says nuclear alert level unchanged​NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg on Tuesday visited troops in Poland with Polish President Andrzej Duda. Poland shares a border with Ukraine, and the air base in the central Poland city of Lask is home to NATO’s Polish and U.S. F-15 and F-16 fighter jets.
> "We are increasing our presence in the east to defend & protect our people," Stoltenberg said in a social media post. "Allies are stepping up support for #Ukraine & imposing costs on #Russia. The world stands with Ukraine in calling for peace."
> Despite Russia’s threats about nuclear weapons, the alliance sees no need to change its nuclear weapons alert level, Stoltenberg said. And while Ukraine is not a member of NATO, it is the alliance's responsibility to “ensure that we don’t see a development where a conflict in Ukraine spiraled out of control and becomes a full-fledged confrontation between NATO and Russia in Europe."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google, other big tech firms grapple with Russian state media, propaganda​Big tech platforms have begun restricting Russian state media from using their platforms to spread propaganda and misinformation. Google announced Tuesday that it's blocking the YouTube channels of those outlets in Europe effective immediately but said it could take some time to get all of them removed. Other U.S.-owned tech companies have also taken steps, including labeling more content so people know it originated with the Russian government and cutting Russian state organizations off from ad revenue.
> The changes are intended to slow the Kremlin from pumping propaganda into social media feeds without persuading Russian officials to block their citizens from access to platforms during a crucial time of war, said Katie Harbath, a former public policy director for Facebook. *Read more here*.
> "They’re trying to walk this very fine line; they’re doing this dance,” she said.
> War threatens Russian space partnerships with US, Europe​Russia's invasion of Ukraine has raised concerns about the country's relationship with the United States in space, a union that has remained intact despite geopolitical rifts between the two countries.
> Four NASA astronauts, two Russian cosmonauts and one European Space Agency astronaut are stationed aboard the International Space Station, their home traveling 17,500 mph some 200 mile above Earth – where Russia has drawn international rebuke for its invasion of Ukraine. NASA astronaut Mark Vande Hei is scheduled to return March 30 aboard a Russian spacecraft.
> President Joe Biden has promised sanctions will target the Russian aerospace industry, a warning that led to a tweet from Russian space chief Dmitry Rogozin asking "who will save the ISS from an uncontrolled deorbit and fall into the United States or Europe."
> The European Space Agency also works with Russia. A planned launch of a European-Russian mission to Mars this year is "very unlikely," the space agency said Monday.
> – _Emre Kelly, Florida Today_
> 
> 
> 
> Artillery kills over 70 Ukrainian soldiers at military base, official says​More than 70 Ukrainian soldiers were killed after Russian artillery hit a military base in Okhtyrka, a city between Kharkiv and Kyiv, the head of the region wrote on Telegram. Dmytro Zhyvytskyy posted photographs of the charred shell of a four-story building and rescuers searching rubble. In a later Facebook post, he said many Russian soldiers and some residents also were killed during the fighting on Sunday. The report could not immediately be confirmed.
> _– Celina Tebor_
> Disney, Sony Pictures, Warner Bros. halt release of films in Russia​The Walt Disney Co., Sony Pictures Entertainment and Warner Bros. are joining the list of businesses retaliating against Russia over its invasion of Ukraine. Disney is pausing the release of theatrical films in Russia, including the upcoming “Turning Red” from Pixar, in response to the attack, the company said in a statement Monday. Disney said it is working with nongovernmental organizations to provide aid and other humanitarian assistance to refugees.
> WarnerMedia is putting the release of The Batman on hold in Russia. The film starring Robert Pattinson had been set to open in Russia on Thursday. “We will continue to monitor the situation as it evolves,” Warner Bros. said in a statement. “We hope for a swift and peaceful resolution to this tragedy.”
> Sony Pictures is also pausing planned theatrical releases in Russia, including the upcoming release of Morbius, which is due out in early April,
> "Our thoughts and prayers are with all those who have been impacted and hope this crisis will be resolved quickly," Sony Pictures told USA TODAY in a statement.
> _– Michael Collins_
> Mastercard blocks financial institutions over sanctions on Russia​Mastercard announced Monday that it was blocking "multiple financial institutions from the Mastercard payment network" as a result of sanctions imposed on Russia over its invasion of Ukraine. The U.S.-based financial services company said in a statement it will continue to work with regulators to stay in compliance and is actively monitoring and preparing to respond to cyberattacks. Mastercard also said it would donate $2 million in humanitarian relief.
> The U.S. and EU have sanctioned top Kremin officials and Russian elites as well as taken steps to remove Russian banks from the SWIFT network, which allows for payments between financial institutions, and to restrict Russia’s use of its massive foreign currency reserves.
> _– Celina Tebor
> Contributing: The Associated Press_


For all who can’t understand *why Russians have not attacked kiyv yet*. I have the answer

*They are waiting for the United Nations General Assembly vote tomorrow Wednesday March 2 ,2022.*

Imagine a vote after visuals of the Russian army raising a capital to the ground!

*I also don’t understand one more thing why would the Russian army follow a western time table for their invasion. People it’s been 6 days so far. The gains they made are significant.

Just so we are all clear I stand with Ukraine 🇺🇦 Russia is illegally occupying a weaker people by force just like India 🇮🇳 is doing to the Kashmiris 

K

*

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## Madni Bappa

Vergennes said:


> Continue to live in your own lala land,everything is just zionist propaganda I guess lol,when all the hardware destroyed shown aren't even in Ukraine's inventory or if they are,of different versions,easily recognizable.


I think what you're trying to do on a Pakistani forum. Will have more impact if you peddle it on Twitter. We people of East i e Asia and Middle East have been targets of Western Judeo Christian militaries and media for too long. Know all the tricks.

In the opening volley of the war. Russians rained down missiles on Ukrainian radar and AD vehicles. Dumb Ukrainian Nazis were showing them hours later as destroyed Russian Air Defense when Russian columns were miles away still from those locations. 

Also I don't think Russians have big need for AD because the mighty "Ghost of Kiev" has turned out to be just that. A ghost. The fake claim by Ukrainians that other E.European countries will give them jets has also been debunked as fake news.



Khan vilatey said:


> For all who can’t understand *why Russians have not attacked kiyv yet*. I have the answer
> 
> *They are waiting for the United Nations General Assembly vote tomorrow Wednesday March 2 ,2022.*
> 
> Imagine a vote after visuals of the Russian army raising a capital to the ground!
> 
> *I also don’t understand one more thing why would the Russian army follow a western time table for their invasion. People it’s been 6 days so far. The gains they made are significant.
> 
> Just so we are all clear I stand with Ukraine 🇺🇦 Russia is illegally occupying a weaker people by force just like India 🇮🇳 is doing to the Kashmiris
> 
> K
> 
> *


If Mexico or Canada suddenly become Russian ally and start hosting Russian ICBMs. What will US do?

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## NotSure

jhungary said:


> 3.) Sorry was meant to say flat land. The problem is that Russia still have not control the air even after day 6, running large Armor Column in open field is going to make it easy prey on Ukrainian Air Asset.
> 
> Also, it's worth notice that the tradition engagement distant for Javelin is 800-1200 meters, somewhat within T-80/ T-90 gun range (Which is about 1500), technically, you can engage Russia Armor with Javelin (Not sure what is the spec of N-LAW) outside T80/T-90 Gun range at 2000 meter, but the operator would have to be very skilful, because there are a lot of adjustment to make, and I am not sure if Ukrainian are that skilled on using Javelin. So I would suggest that they are probably engaging Russian Armor at range about 800 to 1000 meters


Lol, you as a "military expert" really believing the gun range of a T-90 is 1500m? I repeat: 1500*m*? From were you got this utter nonsense?

This is within the effective range of a *30mm* automatic canon like the 2A42, not the 125mm! And you are even talking here about an engagement against infantery, means HE-Frag will be used. Even the 30mm autocanon can shoot your infantery from 2km away to pieces with its 30mm x 165mm HE-Frag rounds like 3UOF8.

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## khansaheeb

gambit said:


> Let us get international laws straight...As much as laws can be in wars...
> 
> Technically speaking, the correct words are 'combatant' and 'non-combatant'. That mean a civilian can be a combatant, and that is not wordplay. Resistance or partisan fighters are civilians but also are combatants. Guerrilla fighters are civilians as well combatants. Most military members are combatants. Why 'most'? Because chaplains and medics are non-combatants. Chaplains are forbidden to carry arms. Medics can carry arms for self protection and to protect the wounded under their care, but they are non-combatants. If a medic become a member of an attacking force take part in an attack, then he lost his non-combatant status. But if all he does is respond to calls for his service, then he remains a non-combatant.
> 
> You can kill a combatant but not a non-combatant. It is a war crime to kill non-combatants.
> 
> The leader of a country have the moral right to call civilians to arms for defense of country. If anyone respond, he becomes a combatant. He can fight with his own weapons or that issued to him by the government or by the resistance organization. He can even fight with his bare hands if he want.
> 
> For any civilian to be a combatant, he must distinguish himself somehow. He can wear the uniform of the military, or he can, with other civilians, wear some unique piece of clothing to show they are combatants. The Geneva Convention does not require a formal uniform as that of the military. Just as long as the civilian display a unique outerwear of some kind to show that he is a combatant.
> 
> 
> 
> Doctors without borders | The Practical Guide to Humanitarian Law
> 
> 
> 
> According to the Third Geneva Convention, combatants are:
> 
> members of the armed forces of a party to the conflict, as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces (GCIII Art. 4.a.1); or
> members of regular armed forces, even those that profess allegiance to a government or authority not recognized by the adverse power (GCIII Art. 4.a.3); or
> members of other militias and members of volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements belonging to a party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfill the following conditions:
> that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
> that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
> that of carrying arms openly;
> that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war (GCIII Art. 4.a.2);
> 
> inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war (GCIII Art. 4.a.6).


Which country believes in rules at times of war? -"You can kill a combatant but not a non-combatant. It is a war crime to kill non-combatants."



NotSure said:


> Lol, you as a "military expert" really believing the gun range of a T-90 is 1500m? I repeat: 1500*m*? From were you got this utter nonsense?
> 
> This is within the effective range of a *30mm* automatic canon like the 2A42, not the 125mm! And you are even talking here about an engagement against infantery, means HE-Frag will be used. Even the 30mm autocanon can shoot your infantery from 2km away to pieces with its 30mm x 165mm HE-Frag rounds like 3UOF8.


The T-90 main battle tank is a armed with a fully-stabilized 2A46M 125 mm smoothbore gun. Effective range of fire with APFSDS round is 2 000-3 000 m day and 2 000-2 600 m at night. Armor penetration is around 590-630 mm at 2 000 m range.





__





T-90 Main Battle Tank | Military-Today.com


The T-90 main battle tank is a further development of the T-72. The T-90 was accepted to service with Russian army in 1993 and it's low-rate production commenced in 1994. It is the most modern tank currently in service with Russian army. The T-90 is also among 10 best main battle tanks in the world.



www.military-today.com


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## Paul2

khansaheeb said:


> The T-90 main battle tank is a armed with a fully-stabilized 2A46M 125 mm smoothbore gun. Effective range of fire with APFSDS round is 2 000-3 000 m day and 2 000-2 600 m at night. Armor penetration is around 590-630 mm at 2 000 m range.



Do you know that these rounds don't explode, and don't have shrapnel? ...


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## Areesh

Adonis said:


> because of person of Pakistan origin...
> 
> By the way Mr. Elite, have you too gained you title by commenting on people's origin, orientation and black humour?



No. You are not of Pakistani origin 

Stop lying pajeet

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## khansaheeb

Paul2 said:


> Do you know that these rounds don't explode, and don't have shrapnel? ...


Guess it depends on the payload they attach.


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## beast89

Russia is showing restraint yet as each day passes it becomes more grim Ukraine.

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## jhungary

NotSure said:


> Lol, you as a "military expert" really believing the gun range of a T-90 is 1500m? I repeat: 1500*m*? From were you got this utter nonsense?
> 
> This is within the effective range of a *30mm* automatic canon like the 2A42, not the 125mm! And you are even talking here about an engagement against infantery, means HE-Frag will be used. Even the 30mm autocanon can shoot your infantery from 2km away to pieces with its 30mm x 165mm HE-Frag rounds like 3UOF8.


I said "*Engagement distant*" and you are quoting "*Maximum Range*", that is why I said the Javelin engagement distant is 800 to 1200 meters, when the "*MAXIMUM RANGE*" is depends on type of missile from 2500 to 4000 (CLU Lightweight) meters









FGM-148 Javelin - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





First of all, ALL AT MISSILE designed to outrange Tank Gun, this is not WW2, we don't hide under foxhole and shoot missile on the tank belly.

Try shooting a AT Round on a T80/T-90 with no computer stabilised system at 2000 meters and you will see what? I was a 19A (Armor Officer) I tried that on a M1 Abrams (with better computer control) and you would not be able to hit a target at what we refer to as "Skirt Range" beyond 2000 meters. But of course, wannabe like you would have no way to know.

Another post showing you know NOTHING about Military And the fact you jump on the wrong term itself is PRICELESS LOL 

HAHAHA.......sorry, I have to laugh....

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## Darius77

Now that the fog of propaganda wars is getting thinner, it is quite obvious that Russian Federation armed forces have regained the initiative after 72 hours of combat operations and have overcome the initial challenges posed by terrain, logistics and sporadic Ukrainian resistance, which the Russian GRU had not expected. However, the Russians have adapted and are methodically degrading Ukrainian infrastructure and now going after C3I. This is going to be a long war and Ukraine has effectively ceased to exist. The Russians have made good progress in the South east and have whole of Sea of Azov coast under their control. I believe that to minimize both Russian military and Ukrainian civilian "collateral damage" the Russians will avoid a quick headlong rush into Kiev, but will methodically choke and wear down the defences. I expect Kiev to fall in 2-4 weeks. There will be no "no fly" zone as Russia and Belarus have flooded the liberated parts of Ukraine with very powerful AD systems like the S-300 and S-400 and Russia has deployed the king of all AD systems the Prometheus S-500 in Belarus. Any NATO air incursion into Ukraine will be sheer suicide. I don't expect any NATO aircraft in Ukraine.


*By February 28th, the Russian military gained air supremacy over the whole of Ukraine, Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said at a briefing.*

On February 27th, the Russian Defence Ministry claimed the destruction of 42 Ukrainian aircraft and helicopters on the ground and in the air. So far, 11 unmanned aerial vehicles of the Ukrainian Armed Forces have been reportedly destroyed. Four more Ukrainian combat aircraft were destroyed on the ground and one more warplane was reportedly shot down in the air on February 28th.

On the first day of the Russian military operation numerous military facilities all over Ukraine were destroyed, including airfields.

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## Areesh

Syama Ayas said:


> His own family are migrants from India



Yeah just like millions others. Who migrated to Pakistan from British India. A British colony 

Now stop obsessing with me and let me handle this your fellow pajeet who is masquerading as a Pakistani here

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Do you know that these rounds don't explode, and don't have shrapnel? ...


You mean the round thing that got stuck into the ground and not explode?

Those thing are casing for Cluster Bomb........


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## Meengla

jamal18 said:


> US col Douglas Macgregor tellin it like it is. 2 mins.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498762119432527876



Some tall claims made in the video by Col. Macgregor?? Some sort of 'understanding' is reached between America, Ukrainians and Russians? I doubt that.

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## Wergeland 2.0

RescueRanger said:


> Speaking of Leon:
> Boris Johnson hints UK's 'Lads' Army' could be treated like TERRORISTS on return from Ukraine as he urges them NOT to join Zelensky's civilian fightback - as city banker whose hero is George Orwell and gym boss join ex-SAS soldiers making way to frontline​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> British volunteers head to Ukrainian embassy to fight against Russia
> 
> 
> Giving a speech in Estonia today, Prime Minister warned Britons wanting to join Ukraine in their war with Russia that they could be breaking UK laws by taking part in the fighting.
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk



well that was a 180 degree turn in less than 18 hours. But that is a good. Bravo Bojo youve made the right choice.



Genghis khan1 said:


> Christian Zionist religious believe, Russians along with Arab (Muslims) will be on the opposing (evil) side to them and their final return of massiah.
> 
> Basically thei Dajjal is supported by Russians and Muslims end if times false prophet. That’s what they been preaching to their people.



Those evangelist are a bunch of wackos.
But tbh Islam has tons of similar sects that is out of touch with reality


----------



## Paul2

jhungary said:


> You mean the round thing that got stuck into the ground and not explode?
> 
> Those thing are casing for Cluster Bomb........



I was telling him (@khansaheeb ) that he was referring to APFSDS rounds of tanks. Those of course don't have shrapnel, and are nearly useless against infantry.

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## jhungary

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> well that was a 180 degree turn in less than 18 hours. But that is a good. Bravo Bojo youve made the right choice.
> 
> 
> 
> Those evangelist are a bunch of wackos.
> But tbh Islam has tons of similar sects that is out of touch with reality


To be fair, that only applies to sole UK citizen, not applies to dual citizen. I am a UK citizens, served in the US Army, I was asked about the same thing, that act excluded if you are the citizen of the country at war that are not currently hostile to UK. Which mean that can be by-passed by Ukrainian giving them citizenship. Which is what Ukrainian is doing. And also what the French Foreign Legion doing to by-pass that same law. Otherwise those ex 2-para serving with FFL in Mail would all been arrested......

In fact, the British themselves are doing the same thing to by-pass similar law from other country, the ability for Commonwealth Citizen (Like New Zealand, Australia, Singapore) to join British Armed Force and at the end of the 5 years service you will be given British Citizenship.

But then you are not talking about 40,000 British joining Ukrainian Military, they already have a 45 millions population roughly 9 millions military aged male. which mean they really don't need to have the so called "Foreign Legion", that's more like a PR stunt than of any actual use.



Paul2 said:


> I was telling him (@khansaheeb ) that he was referring to APFSDS rounds of tanks. Hitting a moving rifleman with one at such distance is like winning a lottery.


fair enough

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## khansaheeb

Adonis said:


> Now, who are you ...Hybrid? ......I will say we....you can continue barking


Can you take squabbling offline plz? We are trying to analyze Ukraine here.

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## Wergeland 2.0

jhungary said:


> In fact, the British themselves are doing the same thing to by-pass similar law from other country, the ability for Commonwealth Citizen (Like New Zealand, Australia, Singapore) to join British Armed Force and at the end of the 5 years service you will be given British Citizenship.



Interesting. 
Would that include commonwealth nations in Africa and Asia?

Do you happen to know if Indian Gurkha regiments in UK Army get UK passport after doing service?


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## kingQamaR

jamal18 said:


> Like I said, anybody who tells people to go forward with molotove cocktails is a murderer. He know nothing of combat. Same with arming civilians and women.



Who the hell wants to live behind an iron curtain with Putin and Belarus nutjob having total power.Raving lunatics the both of them.

Stop making stuff up would you want your country to be invaded and annexed 

Jeez

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498859353620815872


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## Signalian

RescueRanger said:


> Foreign envoys urge Pakistan to condemn Russian invasion of Ukraine during emergency UNGA session​- https://www.dawn.com/news/1677704
> 
> @That Guy @LeGenD @The Eagle @Chak Bamu @PDF @A1Kaid @Irfan Baloch @jaibi @Horus @Signalian @HRK
> 
> Thoughts? Treading water moment!


Diplomacy would dictate something else. However, in all honesty Pakistan should align with russia, turkey and China. Keep cordial relations with others like Europe, Japan,Korea etc. 

China and Russia are the major powers in the region. If usa was in the region or if Pakistan was at border of Europe then strategy would be different.

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## FuturePAF

Syama Ayas said:


> Imran certainly did a great job on that with his Russia visit


What exactly did he do on his Moscow visit, try to talk sense into a leader that was hell bent on war, who had the audacity to invite another leader while he did it. From what I gathered the original intent of the visit was to find a way to stabilize Central Asia with a country that has significant influence in the region, in the hopes of preventing it from collapsing and becoming a vulnerability to the world. Putin’s actions will cause world wheat and fertilizer prices to soar, the ramifications of which are potentially global famine.

IK never endorsed the invasion that way India basically did with the Soviet one in Afghanistan. He did the best he could considering he was a guest and his meeting had been facilitated by the Chinese. Despite the current crisis, Pakistan and Russia are still neighbors across the Central Asia divide, and finding a way to stabilize the region is in the long term interest of all parties. Putin will not be in power forever and as long as there is a Russia and a Pakistan, it is in the interest of the region if both countries could be pillars of stability. 

It’s too bad, Putin had to go and destabilize the world and undermine what could have been an opportunity for rehabilitation finally realized.

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## jhungary

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> Interesting.
> Would that include commonwealth nations in Africa and Asia?
> 
> Do you happen to know if Indian Gurkha regiments in UK Army get UK passport after doing service?


Included EVERYONE, and yes, that included Africa and Asia

Very obvious it include Nepal, that's where they get all the Gurkha, before Hong Kong returned to China and belong to the commonwealth, local were recruited thru the same scheme, I personally know some Hong Konger who served in the British Army and went to Falkland. Quite a few from Singapore (even now) and quite a few from Australia, Fiji and New Zealand.

There are large contingent of Ghanan commonwealth soldier and South African Commonwealth Soldier in the British Army. 

If I remember correctly, Commonwealth Citizen (regardless where you are from) will get Get British Passport after 5 years service and 1 year stay in the UK with Indefinite leave to remain. Which mean 6 years after joining, you will get British Citizenship.









Non-UK Nationals


The British Army is famous across the globe – so it’s no surprise that foreign nationals are eager to join our ranks. And we, in turn, are immensely proud to welcome non-UK nationals to serve in the British Army. Read on to find out about entry requirements, visas and more.




www.army.mod.uk


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## tower9

FuturePAF said:


> What exactly did he do on his Moscow visit, try to talk sense into a leader that was hell bent on war, who had the audacity to invite another leader while he did it. From what I gathered the original intent of the visit was to find a way to stabilize Central Asia with a country that has significant influence in the region, in the hopes of preventing it from collapsing and becoming a vulnerability to the world. Putin’s actions will cause world wheat and fertilizer prices to soar, the ramifications of which are potentially global famine.
> 
> IK never endorsed the invasion that way India basically did with the Soviet one in Afghanistan. He did the best he could considering he was a guest and his meeting had been facilitated by the Chinese. Despite the current crisis, Pakistan and Russia are still neighbors across the Central Asia divide, and finding a way to stabilize the region is in the long term interest of all parties. Putin will not be in power forever and as long as there is a Russia and a Pakistan, it is in the interest of the region if both countries could be pillars of stability.
> 
> It’s too bad, Putin had to go and destabilize the world and undermine what could have been an opportunity for rehabilitation finally realized.



I mean Imran was able to get a deal on Russian gas which would lower gas costs for Pakistan while energy costs are soaring worldwide. I'd consider that a great success. 

What else was he going to do? Jump in front of Russian tanks?

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## kingQamaR

tower9 said:


> I mean Imran was able to get a deal on Russian gas which would lower gas costs for Pakistan while energy costs are soaring worldwide. I'd consider that a great success.
> 
> What else was he going to do? Jump in front of Russian tanks?



Russians gave us a deal. That’s very good of them as they never really bothered before in doing anything meaningful with us, and now I fear are we strong brave in face of western opposition pressure to be put on us :-(

Imran khan is Pashtun very handy with Rocket launcher and sniper gun ……..

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## Paul2

tower9 said:


> I mean Imran was able to get a deal on Russian gas which would lower gas costs for Pakistan while energy costs are soaring worldwide. I'd consider that a great success.
> 
> What else was he going to do? Jump in front of Russian tanks?



Well he got a deal for the pipe, now who will build that pipe, and on whose money?


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## lastofthepatriots

Baby Putin captured by Ukrainian forces. Where is Vladi daddy?

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## FuturePAF

tower9 said:


> I mean Imran was able to get a deal on Russian gas which would lower gas costs for Pakistan while energy costs are soaring worldwide. I'd consider that a great success.
> 
> What else was he going to do? Jump in front of Russian tanks?


That as well. Thanks for reminding me. And before anyone jumps on IK for making such as deal, the Europeans are still buying Russian gas and even the US is buying nearly a half million barrels of oil per day from the Russian today.









How Much Oil Does the U.S. Import From Russia and Why Did Biden Ban It?


Despite being the top global producer, the U.S. had used Russian crude to service more isolated coastal markets and keep refineries running at optimal levels.




www.wsj.com

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## kingQamaR

Paul2 said:


> Well he got a deal for the pipe, now who will build that pipe, and on whose money?



that’s Beijing 

Russia will need every rouble to survive sanctions not going to be building pipe


----------



## OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ

Lehrasap said:


> A very bad argument.
> 
> Humanist Europe is neither Satan-Worshippers nor evil, and thus millions of Muslims try their best to immigrate to Europe and enjoy the equal civil rights.
> 
> On one side you bring religion in your life and support orthodox Christians, but when it does not suit you, then you exclude the religion from your life, and hug the atheist Chinese and sit in their lap.
> 
> You close your eyes who this orthodox Russia killed the Chechens and how it was supporting the killing of Muslim Albanians. And it was the Evil West who rescued the Muslim Albania.
> 
> And I believe that Christian US is even more religious than Russia.
> 
> You don't deserve left wing democrats, but perhaps you deserve the religious right wing fanatic Christians, in the leadership of Trump.



Thus far, the world is an unwilling participant and reluctant but obliged spectator in what is essentially a European Civil War!
These wars and their games of one upmanship, murder and pillage brought about the conquests for nothing more than just resources and control to bring about the world we live in now, only to be poured over in more wars in an otherwise tiny part of the world... that reproduced like rabbits(till very recently) ... conquered and colonized the whole world and only tamed itself... for a short while... after they had exhausted themselves, in again their civil conflict where the whole world was again obliged(ww1 and ww2).
This reign of hell from vikings, kings, feudals, church, schism, republic(s) to communism, capitalism, democracy and autocracy only sheds old skin, dons new... and pours another generation in a feud of blood that seemingly will never end!
Ukraine, a purpose built conflict, a human sacrifice just like the vikings... 
This sacrifice is evident in even the kind of weapons being supplied to Ukrainians... to only drag and prolong the conflict... bleed Russia before the drums role and big guys move in...

I got to give you this much you drink the same kool-aid you're peddling... keep going.

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## Clutch

Probably the best analyst on the current Ukraine crisis to date.... Must watch.

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## FuturePAF

Moldova is next?


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## Madni Bappa

On another note:
Ive said this before. Will say again. Getting some Unit 8200 involvement vibes in this conflict on Ukrainian side.



FuturePAF said:


> Moldova is next?


I think Moldova already declared themselves as Russian vassal


----------



## Khan vilatey

Madni Bappa said:


> I think what you're trying to do on a Pakistani forum. Will have more impact if you peddle it on Twitter. We people of East i e Asia and Middle East have been targets of Western Judeo Christian militaries and media for too long. Know all the tricks.
> 
> In the opening volley of the war. Russians rained down missiles on Ukrainian radar and AD vehicles. Dumb Ukrainian Nazis were showing them hours later as destroyed Russian Air Defense when Russian columns were miles away still from those locations.
> 
> Also I don't think Russians have big need for AD because the mighty "Ghost of Kiev" has turned out to be just that. A ghost. The fake claim by Ukrainians that other E.European countries will give them jets has also been debunked as fake news.
> 
> 
> If Mexico or Canada suddenly become Russian ally and start hosting Russian ICBMs. What will US do?


Build a wall around the US and Mexico will pay for it 😀
K


----------



## Madni Bappa

OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ said:


> Thus far, the world is an unwilling participant and reluctant but obliged spectator in what is essentially a European Civil War!
> These wars and their games of one upmanship, murder and pillage brought about the conquests for nothing more than just resources and control to bring about the world we live in now, only to be poured over in more wars in an otherwise tiny part of the world... that reproduced like rabbits(till very recently) ... conquered and colonized the whole world and only tamed itself... for a short while... after they had exhausted themselves, in again their civil conflict where the whole world was again obliged(ww1 and ww2).
> This reign of hell from vikings, kings, feudals, church, schism, republic(s) to communism, capitalism, democracy and autocracy only sheds old skin, dons new... and pours another generation in a feud of blood that seemingly will never end!
> Ukraine, a purpose built conflict, a human sacrifice just like the vikings...
> This sacrifice is evident in even the kind of weapons being supplied to Ukrainians... to only drag and prolong the conflict... bleed Russia before the drums role and big guys move in...
> 
> I got to give you this much you drink the same kool-aid you're peddling... keep going.


Well said bro. Show em the mirror. It's astonishing why no Western citizen ever questioned why their governments didn't give any big ticket items to Ukrainian military?

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## vi-va

Biden says Putin may encircle Ukraine with tanks, but can't defeat the heart and souls of the Iranian people.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498847898406203394

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## Darius77

vi-va said:


> Biden says Putin may encircle Ukraine with tanks, but can't defeat the heart and souls of the Iranian people.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498847898406203394


LOL, Biden is totally demented.

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## Khanate

Read: And so, Cold War II begins... 😑​


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## sur

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498859353620815872



Russians warned against this multiple times that Ukrainians are setting positions amid civilians to inadvertently cause civilian loses.
Putin claimed it was Americans who advised Zelensky-Clan to do so.

Here a canon right next to apartment building.
Probably Russians rained on this location *to take out these guns* and caused this.

*I hope civilians had left these buildings on seeing these canons set up right next to their residencies*.














.
.
.
.
.
.


Below, some of the fakery explained:

ghost of Kiev
Russian tank running over a civilian car.
Zelensky in military uniform.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498880286440013825

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## Clutch

Sainthood 101 said:


> Shouldn't have invaded someone else's lands



Sometimes you need a good housecleaning especially when Nazis have been squatting and setting up shop...m

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498881926253404160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498884863012782082

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498885057116880897

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## Lehrasap

OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ said:


> Thus far, the world is an unwilling participant and reluctant but obliged spectator in what is essentially a European Civil War!
> These wars and their games of one upmanship, murder and pillage brought about the conquests for nothing more than just resources and control to bring about the world we live in now, only to be poured over in more wars in an otherwise tiny part of the world... that reproduced like rabbits(till very recently) ... conquered and colonized the whole world and only tamed itself... for a short while... after they had exhausted themselves, in again their civil conflict where the whole world was again obliged(ww1 and ww2).
> This reign of hell from vikings, kings, feudals, church, schism, republic(s) to communism, capitalism, democracy and autocracy only sheds old skin, dons new... and pours another generation in a feud of blood that seemingly will never end!
> Ukraine, a purpose built conflict, a human sacrifice just like the vikings...
> This sacrifice is evident in even the kind of weapons being supplied to Ukrainians... to only drag and prolong the conflict... bleed Russia before the drums role and big guys move in...
> 
> I got to give you this much you drink the same kool-aid you're peddling... keep going.



Is the glorified Islamic history any DIFFERENT?
Did the Muslim Kings, Sultans, Caliphs not take the women and children and men as slaves?
Did they not loot every single thing in the name of Ghanimah (war booty)?
Were Muslims not fighting each other too in wars?

Give credit to the West that despite the power, they tried to reform themselves. Despite conquering all the Islamic countries, neither they killed the male prisoners, nor raped the women, nor took the small children as slaves.

Of course, no one is perfect, and they all made mistakes. But the secular left-wing West indeed showed a lot of humanity.

You people are doing nothing else than putting a knife in the back of the secular left-wing West. And as a result, only the right-wing West will get stronger and it will take power in the West.

This new wave of "not our war" in the name of "Personal Benefits" is now getting preference over humanity, which will bring only a downfall of humanity.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498892849156435976

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## Lehrasap

Zibago said:


> The Soviet war kind of stung a little in the long run as we had to fight the people our policy created so forgive us if we have lost the appetite for jumping in geopolitical battles led by the west
> This time we will try sitting on the fence



Dear friend, please try to understand the consequences for humanity for this behavior. 
This means no voice for Rohingya Muslims from the West.
No voice against the fanatic Hindus of BJP against the Indian Muslims.
This also mean no voice against China for killing its Muslim population.

And the peak of this evil will be when even Muslim population in the West will be discriminated and killed and kicked out, then there will be no Voice left in the West against it.

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## kahu



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## Madni Bappa

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498880286440013825


When they going to Pochinki?

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## Darius77

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498881926253404160
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498884863012782082
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498885057116880897


Russians are deploying the right tactics now and bringing in a lot of infantry to support the armor and their losses have almost stopped. They just made a large paradrop on Kharkov and have captured the city. Even the Uki propaganda trolls have shut the f up.

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## Lehrasap

NotSure said:


> My point is: Selensky and Co. are responsible too for this mess. They gave the order to arm civilians with molotov cocktails etc. Because they want as many ukr. civilians dead as possible. To get Nato dragged in and making the peace process at the end as hard as possible!



What should Selensky do? Just surrender? 
It is only deceiving ourselves to give the name of peace to this surrender. 

Not only NATO, but the whole world should have protested against any such invasion much before this resistance. 

It is the failure of the whole world, and the price of this has to pay the Ukrainians citizens.

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## Daylamite Warrior

Lehrasap said:


> Is the glorified Islamic history any DIFFERENT?
> Did the Muslim Kings, Sultans, Caliphs not take the women and children and men as slaves?
> Did they not loot every single thing in the name of Ghanimah (war booty)?
> Were Muslims not fighting each other too in wars?
> 
> Give credit to the West that despite the power, they tried to reform themselves. Despite conquering all the Islamic countries, neither they killed the male prisoners, nor raped the women, nor took the small children as slaves.
> 
> Of course, no one is perfect, and they all made mistakes. But the secular left-wing West indeed showed a lot of humanity.
> 
> You people are doing nothing else than putting a knife in the back of the secular left-wing West. And as a result, only the right-wing West will get stronger and it will take power in the West.
> 
> This new wave of "Personal Benefits" is now getting preference over humanity, which will bring only a downfall of humanity.


Muslims did exactly the same as the empires before then and after them, though they didnt genocide people quite like the Crusaders or Romans did. Yes later Muslim empires adopted these practices after it was shown to them by Western adversaries. They did that to Muslims and worse. Stop revising history it's getting tiresom. Ask the Algerians if there weren't enslaved and raped by the French, ask the Iraqis the same question. Basically what you're saying is just because Muslims dont want to get involved in the wars of the enemies of Islam, then Muslims deserve to get genocided? This is a sick mentality, but not surprising from a civilisation which encourages the genocide of Palestinians and has rampant pedophiles in their higher echelons. We will leave Allah to give the west credit if He so wishes, or not. Please put your fake humanity away. We don't buy this kind of crap anymore. We know exactly who the enemy is.

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## Darius77

kahu said:


>


This overt European racism and abuse of "colored" people has openly exposed the Euro-trash racist thugs, and you expect any decent human being to support the Nazi criminals in Kiev?

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## Madni Bappa

Reason why Germany doubled defense budget yesterday:

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## Suriya

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498712726838788102

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## OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ

Lehrasap said:


> Is the glorified Islamic history any DIFFERENT?
> Did the Muslim Kings, Sultans, Caliphs not take the women and children and men as slaves?
> Did they not loot every single thing in the name of Ghanimah (war booty)?
> Were Muslims not fighting each other too in wars?
> 
> Give credit to the West that despite the power, they tried to reform themselves. Despite conquering all the Islamic countries, neither they killed the male prisoners, nor raped the women, nor took the small children as slaves.
> 
> Of course, no one is perfect, and they all made mistakes. But the secular left-wing West indeed showed a lot of humanity.
> 
> You people are doing nothing else than putting a knife in the back of the secular left-wing West. And as a result, only the right-wing West will get stronger and it will take power in the West.
> 
> This new wave of "Personal Benefits" is now getting preference over humanity, which will bring only a downfall of humanity.



You didn't get it... a true zealot never will.

Anyways, I said it is a European(Western in general) Civil War ... and it is not over! Not by a long shot! 
Eventhough, perhaps for the first time ever the numbers are waning. But so is the primacy... the war to end all wars brought many more and now we stand at the precipice... the time where weapons we wield "will" and can end all...
Like never before!
Western mind is in deepest form of depression, nihilism is rampant and fatalism is its result. Every indicator is heading south from here on in... if you're a numbers guy, just start tallying them in... from population, disparity in wealth, ever increasing debts, an imminent tsunami of inflation from all the paper out in the world, a policy of no near peer competitor to a multiple on horizon, loss of narrative and waning of any real deterrence from reaching the point of no return. 

It is time to reflect...

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## SQ8

That Guy said:


> I certainly ain't.
> 
> It's a white people war, I'm just glad they aren't killing brown people.
> 
> People taking sides here would be amusing, if it weren't for the fact that brown people are once again taking sides in a war that has nothing to do with them.
> 
> The chains of mental-slavery are hard to break, it seems.
> 
> @SQ8 @LeGenD @RescueRanger


The Russians basically went all in instead of bite by bite which would have been more vexing to the west which was their first mistake.
Second is that the majority of their forces really aren’t trained nor operating in any conops manner considering the firepower and numbers superiority they hold. Almost as if their strategic plays are being directed by personal whims rather than some well layered cohesive strategy.

The RuAF isn’t being used in effective CAS or interdiction, attack helicopters are being fed to ambushes with no coordination and the Ukrainian Military is still happily operating leaving most analysts to see Russia as the true paper tiger in any conflict. 
Even Polish forces alone could knock out the Russian military the way it has been performing.

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## jamahir

sur said:


> Russians warned against this multiple times that Ukrainians are setting positions amid civilians to inadvertently cause civilian loses.
> Putin claimed it was Americans who advised Zelensky-Clan to do so.
> 
> Here a canon right net to apartment building.
> Probably Russians rained on this location *to take out these guns* and caused this.
> 
> *I hope civilians had left these buildings on seeing these canons set up right next to their residencies*.
> 
> View attachment 820012
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 820013
> 
> 
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> 
> 
> Below, some of the fakery explained:
> 
> ghost of Kiev
> Russian tank running over a civilian car.
> Zelensky in military uniform.



@Messerschmitt @Vergennes, see above and please stop your disinfo campaign on behalf of NATO.



Lehrasap said:


> What should Selensky do? Just surrender?
> It is only deceiving ourselves to give the name of peace to this surrender.
> 
> Not only NATO, but the whole world should have protested against any such invasion much before this resistance.
> 
> It is the failure of the whole world, and the price of this has to pay the Ukrainians citizens.



Yes, Zelensky should do cease fire and negotiate with Russia on the terms that Ukraine will not join NATO and it will eradicate Nazis within and listen to the people of the Russian-speaking regions.

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## Darius77

Madni Bappa said:


> Reason why Germany doubled defense budget yesterday:


It is one of the most inspiring Russian patriotic song from the great patriotic war. Every Russian child knows it. The German Nazis are still petrified of the Red Army.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498896787159015425

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498897644298588160


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## Enigma SIG

Lehrasap said:


> Dear friend, please try to understand the consequences for humanity for this behavior.
> This means no voice for Rohingya Muslims from the West.
> No voice against the fanatic Hindus of BJP against the Indian Muslims.
> This also mean no voice against China for killing its Muslim population.
> 
> And the peak of this evil will be when even Muslim population in the West will be discriminated and killed and kicked out, then there will be no Voice left in the West against it.


This is just comedy gold. 
What were the consequences of the past 4-5 decades in which millions were killed on non-european lands.
Please spare us your faux indignation.

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## Lehrasap

Daylamite Warrior said:


> Muslims did exactly the same as the empires before then and after them, though they didnt genocide people quite like the Crusaders or Romans did. Yes later Muslim empires adopted these practices after it was shown to them by Western adversaries. They did that to Muslims and worse. Stop revising history it's getting tiresom. Ask the Algerians if there weren't enslaved and raped by the French, ask the Iraqis the same question. Basically what you're saying is just because Muslims dont want to get involved in the wars of the enemies of Islam, then Muslims deserve to get genocided? This is a sick mentality, but not surprising from a civilisation which encourages the genocide of Palestinians and has rampant pedophiles in their higher echelons. We will leave Allah to give the west credit if He so wishes, or not. Please put your fake humanity away. We don't buy this kind of crap anymore. We know exactly who the enemy is.



If Muslims are doing the same throughout their history, which was done by the Empires before them, then what is the difference between them?

You are only putting the blame of those Empires of the past upon the shoulders of the present-day Secular Humanist Western movement. 

This secular humanist movement is against the French invasion and it's crimes, but you are blaming this movement to be criminal. This movement is against the Israeli invasion, but you are blaming this movement for this invasion. 

And this movement is against the genocide of Muslims and it is against the slavery, and it is against the rape of women, but you are putting the blame of all these things upon this movement. 

You don't want to hear about humanity???? 

With this behaviour, you are only putting a knife in the back of this secular humanist movement who wants to hug every human including Muslims.



Enigma SIG said:


> This is just comedy gold.
> What were the consequences of the past 4-5 decades in which millions were killed on non-european lands.
> Please spare us your faux indignation.



You want to know about the consequences? 
The consequences were this that the Muslim women were not raped when British and Europe defeated all the Muslim countries and colonized them. 
The consequences were that they didn't loot the last nail and didn't turn their children into slaves. 

Are these enough consequences, or do you want to know more consequences?

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## Clutch



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## jamahir

Lehrasap said:


> You want to know about the consequences?
> The consequences were this that the Muslim women were not raped when British and Europe defeated all the Muslim countries and colonized them.
> The consequences were that they didn't loot the last nail and didn't turn their children into slaves.
> 
> Are these enough consequences, or do you want to know more consequences?



Umm, there is a photo of French colonial soldiers in Algeria holding in custody a naked Algerian girl. And someone on PDF had posted a photo of some other French colonial soldiers near the severed head of an Algerian man, probably a resistance fighter.

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## Enigma SIG

Lehrasap said:


> You want to know about the consequences?
> The consequences were this that the Muslim women were not raped when British and Europe defeated all the Muslim countries and colonized them.
> The consequences were that they didn't loot the last nail and didn't turn their children into slaves.
> 
> Are these enough consequences, or do you want to know more consequences?



So you're saying if we don't raise our voice for secular LGBTQ++ democracy woke white blue eyed fascist europeans, non-europeans will be raped at will?

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## Darius77

jamahir said:


> Umm, there is a photo of French colonial soldiers in Algeria holding in custody a naked Algerian girl. And someone on PDF had posted a photo of some other French colonial soldiers near the severed head of an Algerian man, probably a resistance fighter.


No one can come close to the western savages in sheer malicious savagery and inhumanity. Just look at the Australian SAS lapdogs did to even injured Afghans on a prosthethic leg, shot him and pushed him down a hill. Shot kids in the back. These are really hateful scum. French killed a million Algerians and rape was used as a weapon of war against a traditional conservative Muslim society.

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## Madni Bappa

Darius77 said:


> It is one of the most inspiring Russian patriotic song from the great patriotic war. Every Russian child knows it. The German Nazis are still petrified of the Red Army.


If it weren't for Russians. US and cronies would not have been able to brag about victory in European theater in WW2

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## Clutch

Lehrasap said:


> Dear friend, please try to understand the consequences for humanity for this behavior.
> This means no voice for Rohingya Muslims from the West.
> No voice against the fanatic Hindus of BJP against the Indian Muslims.
> This also mean no voice against China for killing its Muslim population.
> 
> And the peak of this evil will be when even Muslim population in the West will be discriminated and killed and kicked out, then there will be no Voice left in the West against it.



There are no voices for all those Muslim suffering you mentioned already!!!... Be a man of a steel backbone.... Not a chicken.

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## Enigma SIG

jamahir said:


> Umm, there is a photo of French colonial soldiers in Algeria holding in custody a naked Algerian girl. And someone on PDF had posted a photo of some other French colonial soldiers near the severed head of an Algerian man, probably a resistance fighter.

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## Madni Bappa

Darius77 said:


> It is one of the most inspiring Russian patriotic song from the great patriotic war. Every Russian child knows it. The German Nazis are still petrified of the Red Army.


I listen to it while driving to work to pump myself up a bit


----------



## Lehrasap

Enigma SIG said:


> So you're saying if we don't raise our voice for secular LGBTQ++ democracy woke white blue eyed fascist europeans, non-europeans will be raped at will?
> 
> View attachment 820022



Have I said that????

Or I criticized this behaviour where you say "Not our war, while we gain nothing". 

If you don't raise your voice for humanity, then this world will again go the dark ages, where slavery was a norm, and rape of women too.


----------



## kingQamaR

Madni Bappa said:


> If it weren't for Russians. US and cronies would not have been able to brag about victory in European theater in WW2



We have all admired the sacrifices made by the Russians in WW2 but this puts their legacy to shame


----------



## Darius77

Madni Bappa said:


> If it weren't for Russians. US and cronies would not have been able to brag about victory in European theater in WW2


Objectively, Russians won the war singlehandedly, they defeated the Nazis at a huge human cost of 28-30 million Soviet lives and 10,000 towns, cities and villages destroyed. The west tried its best to stifle Russian advance by denying a second front. But the Russians won anyway. US losses in the whole European theater were 276,000 including North Africa, where they took a beating from Rommel at Kasserine pass Tunisia.

The US Army ( Army Air Corps included) If you count all deaths in the entire war and speculating since the Marines did most the heavy fighting in the Pacific theater with Army support in places like Burma or the Philippines. The grand total dead for the US Army is 318,247. Once again that is including North Africa. About 41,592 Army deaths occurred in the Pacific. So our speculated total for the European theater is *276,655 US Army KIA in Europe/North Africa*

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## mingle

Darius77 said:


> Russians are deploying the right tactics now and bringing in a lot of infantry to support the armor and their losses have almost stopped. They just made a large paradrop on Kharkov and have captured the city. Even the Uki propaganda trolls have shut the f up.


Armour without infantry is a sitting duck no matter how latest it is I was surprised when saw Russian armour without infantry if Marshal Zhukov alive today he probably fire all staff responsible

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## Lehrasap

jamahir said:


> Umm, there is a photo of French colonial soldiers in Algeria holding in custody a naked Algerian girl. And someone on PDF had posted a photo of some other French colonial soldiers near the severed head of an Algerian man, probably a resistance fighter.



So you think that the present humanist western movement is responsible for the killing of this Algerian girl. 
And as a response to this, you want this humanist movement of Europe to suffer and to be killed.


----------



## Madni Bappa

Darius77 said:


> Objectively, Russians won the war singlehandedly, they defeated the Nazis at a huge human cost of 28-30 million Soviet lives and 10,000 towns, cities and villages destroyed. The west tried its best to stifle Russian advance by denying a second front. But the Russians won anyway. US losses in the whole European theater were 276,000 including North Africa, where they took a beating from Rommel at Kasserine pass Tunisia.
> 
> The US Army ( Army Air Corps included) If you count all deaths in the entire war and speculating since the Marines did most the heavy fighting in the Pacific theater with Army support in places like Burma or the Philippines. The grand total dead for the US Army is 318,247. Once again that is including North Africa. About 41,592 Army deaths occurred in the Pacific. So our speculated total for the European theater is *276,655 US Army KIA in Europe/North Africa*


Try telling this to Americans after the cold war conditioning they've been through. 

Americans treat non Americans with a lot of arrogance. They could have made Russia a very important partner post fall of USSR. But they chose to marginalize them instead. Treat them with humiliation.

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## dBSPL

FuturePAF said:


> Moldova is next?











Transnistria War - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org












Transnistria - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





It was first... Ukraine is the third country occupied by Russia in the Black Sea.

A unilateral declaration of independence has already been made long before, under the protection of Russian soldiers. Even with regard to the Ukrainian war, it was said that the Russian troops in this region would support the Ukranian occupation. One of Russia's strategic goals is to get Transnistria out of the enclaved situation, either by subjugating Ukraine completely or dividing it on a north/south axis.


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## jamahir

Lehrasap said:


> So you think that the present humanist western movement is responsible for the killing of this Algerian girl.
> And as a response to this, you want this humanist movement of Europe to suffer and to be killed.



Which Humanist movement are you talking about ? Certainly not the Communists, Socialists and Occupy movement.

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## Enigma SIG

Lehrasap said:


> Have I said that????
> 
> Or I criticized this behaviour where you say "Not our war, while we gain nothing".
> 
> If you don't raise your voice for humanity, then this world will again go the dark ages, where slavery was a norm, and rape of women too.


Where was humanity for the thousands of people killed under the murderous US regime?

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## Darius77

mingle said:


> Armour without infantry is a sitting duck no matter how latest it is I was surprised when saw Russian armour without infantry if Marshal Zhukov alive today he probably fire all staff responsible


Like I explained earlier, that is what the Russians have done, fired 5 generals who were appointed on political connections. Now Putin and Shoigu are running the war with *Lieutenant-General Valeriy Yevgenyevich Yevtukhovich, Commander Airborne Troops who are now playing a major role. *

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## Lehrasap

Madni Bappa said:


> Try telling this to Americans after the cold war conditioning they've been through. Americans treat non Americans with a lot of arrogance. They could have made Russia a very important partner post fall of USSR. But they chose to marginalize them instead. Treat them with humiliation.



Yes, not all is perfect. But the problem of Ukraine was not created by US. It was an internal problem and reason lies in the Russian mindset and their history.


----------



## kingQamaR

This stupid war will haunt the Russians long after Putin has gone. 

It will take a few generations for Ukrainian and Russians to get over this blunder.

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## Lehrasap

Enigma SIG said:


> Where was humanity for the thousands of people killed under the murderous US regime?


They were protesting against their own governments and they were against the wars and killings. 
But US was not alone, and all the time many Islamic countries were standing along with US. 
How many protests did you do against Saudi Arabia for attacking Iraq? 
And how many protests did you do against Saddam Hussain when he attacked Kuwait?
Or how many protests you do against Saddam Hussain when he killed thousands of Kurds in Halabcha by chemically bombing them and killing 5000 Kurds in one night?
Or how many protests you do against Saddam Hussain for attacking Iran and killing one million Iranians in the war? 

Perhaps you protested not a single time against the crimes of Saddam Hussain.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498907736582541312

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## HindK84

Lehrasap said:


> Is the glorified Islamic history any DIFFERENT?


Nop


Lehrasap said:


> Did the Muslim Kings, Sultans, Caliphs not take the women and children and men as slaves?


They already did


Lehrasap said:


> Did they not loot every single thing in the name of Ghanimah (war booty)?


It was a fun for them & war compensation as they consider it


Lehrasap said:


> Were Muslims not fighting each other too in wars?


For centuries till now started long time ago since the time of Caliph Ali against the greedy for power, Muawiyah(The war in Yemen is a living witness to the sectarian conflict in Yemen) But the media frames it within the war to restore legitimacy, and it is far from it


Lehrasap said:


> Give credit to the West that despite the power, they tried to reform themselves. Despite conquering all the Islamic countries, neither they killed the male prisoners, nor raped the women, nor took the small children as slaves.





Lehrasap said:


> Disagree, They did worse than you think, for examples, the atrocities of World War II,, the invasion of Vietnam, the occupation of Iraq, we saw the torture of prisoners, the rape and murder of children (a 13-year-old girl was raped and killed and many other cases) and many other examples over the wolrd,, The West does not differentiate brutality,, It is human nature





Lehrasap said:


> Of course, no one is perfect, and they all made mistakes. But the secular left-wing West indeed showed a lot of humanity.


Not At All as I mentioned above (US/UK/Frech/Turkish/Serb/Ukriani/Russian/German/Danish) actions during the wars


Lehrasap said:


> You people are doing nothing else than putting a knife in the back of the secular left-wing West. And as a result, only the right-wing West will get stronger and it will take power in the West.


There is no relation between right-wing West will get stronger and it will take power in the West and muslims, its an internal race for power between several wings of the economic is the heart of this conflict (the refugee crisis is an economic burden / Islamophobia is also primarily economic in origin, in addition to the Muslims’ lack of understanding of the Christian European society / wars are economic motives ... etc.


Lehrasap said:


> This new wave of "not our war" in the name of "Personal Benefits" is now getting preference over humanity, which will bring only a downfall of humanity.


 There is no such term in the world of international politics
With my regards


----------



## mingle

Darius77 said:


> Like I explained earlier, that is what the Russians have done, fired 5 generals who were appointed on political connections. Now Putin and Shoigu are running the war with *Lieutenant-General Valeriy Yevgenyevich Yevtukhovich, Commander Airborne Troops who are now playing a major role. *


Any Idea what timeline Russia has in mind? I believe Window is up till next winter November or December and what end goal Russia looking far?


----------



## OldTwilight

Lehrasap said:


> If Muslims are doing the same throughout their history, which was done by the Empires before them, then what is the difference between them?
> 
> You are only putting the blame of those Empires of the past upon the shoulders of the present-day Secular Humanist Western movement.
> 
> This secular humanist movement is against the French invasion and it's crimes, but you are blaming this movement to be criminal. This movement is against the Israeli invasion, but you are blaming this movement for this invasion.
> 
> And this movement is against the genocide of Muslims and it is against the slavery, and it is against the rape of women, but you are putting the blame of all these things upon this movement.
> 
> You don't want to hear about humanity????
> 
> With this behaviour, you are only putting a knife in the back of this secular humanist movement who wants to hug every human including Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> You want to know about the consequences?
> The consequences were this that the Muslim women were not raped when British and Europe defeated all the Muslim countries and colonized them.
> The consequences were that they didn't loot the last nail and didn't turn their children into slaves.
> 
> Are these enough consequences, or do you want to know more consequences?


they defeated Muslims because Muslims were divided , if they did theses things Muslim would have become united against them .......



don't just tell half side of the story

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## That Guy

R Wing said:


> Are you a child? Using a system devised by a country whose interests align more closely with yours is slavery?
> 
> In that case, is everybody who uses any Western system a Western slave? Are you a Western slave because you benefit from social insurance and mostly free healthcare in Canada?
> 
> The bias by some people here - especially the self-proclaimed enlightened ones - is astonishing.


Lol, if you read my comments from the beginning, I explained pretty much everything, and so far, it's going exactly like I explained.

Russia's economy is in shambles, and they have only one nation to turn to, China.

China isn't stupid, they'll use this opportunity to turn Russia into a junior partner, basically "do as we say, or your economy is fucked". 

Russia joining the Chinese SWIFT alternative is basically step 2, with step 1 being Russia signing major gas deals with the Chinese to offset the chance the Europeans cut off Russian gas. All that's left is China pouring money into Russia's central bank either directly or indirectly, and it's pretty much over for Russia.

But of course you won't care about what I wrote. The fact that you had to resort to calling me a child is quite telling, and makes me laugh.

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## Madni Bappa

dBSPL said:


> Transnistria War - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Transnistria - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was first... Ukraine is the third country occupied by Russia in the Black Sea.
> 
> A unilateral declaration of independence has already been made long before, under the protection of Russian soldiers. Even with regard to the Ukrainian war, it was said that the Russian troops in this region would support the Ukranian occupation. One of Russia's strategic goals is to get Transnistria out of the enclaved situation, either by subjugating Ukraine completely or dividing it on a north/south axis.


I don't understand why Turks are bouncing up and down so much? In the end they won't let you into EU club cuz y'all muslim man.

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## Enigma SIG

Lehrasap said:


> Perhaps you protested not a single time against the crimes of Saddam Hussain.


Strawman lol.
Not gonna argue further; deviating from the thread. You're welcome to create another thread where you can point to my "inaction" against cruelties being perpetrated globally.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498910127558168580

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## Daylamite Warrior

Lehrasap said:


> If Muslims are doing the same throughout their history, which was done by the Empires before them, then what is the difference between them?
> 
> You are only putting the blame of those Empires of the past upon the shoulders of the present-day Secular Humanist Western movement.
> 
> This secular humanist movement is against the French invasion and it's crimes, but you are blaming this movement to be criminal. This movement is against the Israeli invasion, but you are blaming this movement for this invasion.
> 
> And this movement is against the genocide of Muslims and it is against the slavery, and it is against the rape of women, but you are putting the blame of all these things upon this movement.
> 
> You don't want to hear about humanity????
> 
> With this behaviour, you are only putting a knife in the back of this secular humanist movement who wants to hug every human including Muslims.


I never said Muslims did the same things as the westerners, you're putting words in my mouth. They did conquer, but they never pillaged, rape or genocided like the westerners did or still do today. Even the slave trade of the Muslim under Muhammad was a far cry from the brutal slave conditions by the western colonisers which was still a thing in America in living memory! Please do not compare Islam with the west. Islam is more humanistic than the west. 

You also cant brush the magnitude and multitude of western crimes under the rug under the notion of "we all do bad things". No, the crimes of the west are beyond bad and what makes it even more criminal is they try to hide it with fake virtue signalling or saving dogs in Afghanistan when poor Afghans who gave up their identity for the west are left behind. Not buying it!

Im just showing that the west has a knack for being a lot more brutal than the Muslims, and the historical evidence is clear to see. Humanists are hypocrites since you never hear them support Palestine or Muslims, they just critizise us and boast about taking our lands. We see right through the fakery. Humanists are virtue signallers.

Im not putting a knife in your back, that would imply me being two faced...rather I'm being upfront with you in that no westerner has the right to call themselves humanists especially those who profess a left wing liberal orientation. Fool me once, shame...shame on you lol...

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## Darius77

mingle said:


> Any Idea what timeline Russia has in mind? I believe Window is up till next winter November or December and what end goal Russia looking far?


I see 2-4 weeks around Kiev and then a slow drive across the country with a new pro-Russia government in Kiev. People who think that Ukraine will somehow be another "Afghanistan" are purely deluded. Firstly, there is 20%-30% Russian ethnic and mixed population and most importantly Ukraine is a soft corrupt society with no stomach for a long term insurgency. The Russians are now handling the campaign in a very surgical manner to minimize casualties for their own troops and the civilians. There are over 1500 trucks and tanks coming towards Kiev with large numbers of very motivated professional infantry, so it does not take much imagination to figure out the outcome. Russia will prevail, but unfortunately the Twitter and troll war will continue for a decade

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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498660141566402562

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## Darius77

__
https://www.tiktok.com/video/7048171337420000514

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## HindK84

That Guy said:


> Russia joining the Chinese SWIFT alternative is basically step 2, with step 1 being Russia signing major gas deals with the Chinese to offset the chance the Europeans cut off Russian gas. All that's left is China pouring money into Russia's central bank either directly or indirectly, and it's pretty much over for Russia.


And more than what you mentioned above,, In short, a new world order was born, China, is the heart of it and soon we will witness an Internet system that competes with the Americans, another financial system that does not depend on the dollar, and a banking system that does not depend on Swift alone, and an unannounced alliance in the face of the directions of the United States,Swift will lose big share of the market value

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## onebyone

Why Middle East won’t join US in isolating Russia


The world community is aghast over the acute tensions between the United States and its NATO allies on one side and Russia on the other, which is poised critically on the brink of a military confro…




asiatimes.com

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## khansaheeb

As Russia's Ukraine war intensifies, some warn nuclear escalation is possible


Russian President Vladimir Putin gave orders to his nation's nuclear forces over the weekend, but their exact meaning is unclear. Russia has more nuclear weapons than any other nation.




www.npr.org




As Russia's Ukraine war intensifies, some warn nuclear escalation is possible​
*Facebook*
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March 1, 20222:01 PM ET
Heard on All Things Considered



GEOFF BRUMFIEL
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*LISTEN· 3:49*3-Minute Listen*Add toPLAYLIST*

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*Transcript*







A 2020 test of a ground-based intercontinental ballistic missile from the Plesetsk facility in northwestern Russia. Russia has the world's largest nuclear arsenal.
Russian Defense Ministry Press Service /AP
Over the weekend, Russian President Vladimir Putin gave orders to his nation's nuclear forces. On Monday, the U.S. said it would not respond with changes to its own nuclear posture.
"At this time we see no reason to change our own alert levels," White House press secretary Jen Psaki told reporters on Monday.
Some experts, though, are worried about the possibility of nuclear escalation. Here's why.
The exact meaning of Putin's order remains unclear​In a brief clip, Putin is shown speaking to two stony-faced generals about the country's nuclear forces.
"He basically said, 'Because of all these hostile or aggressive statements and aggressive policies, we should start this special mode of combat duty of our deterrent forces,'" says Pavel Podvig, a senior researcher at the United Nations Institute for Disarmament Research in Geneva.
It's unclear what a "special mode of combat duty" actually is. One possibility, says Podvig, is that the order activated the nation's nuclear command and control system.
"Normally, in peacetime, the command and control system is configured in a way that makes the transmission of an actual command very much impossible," he says. "It's like you could press the button, but then nothing happens, because the button is not connected to anything."
Sponsor Message


Putin's order may have meant he wanted the button activated.
Then again, it may not.
Podvig says a follow-up statement from the Russian Ministry of Defense implied it may just mean upping the staffing at facilities that support nuclear weapons. It could be "they just added a few more people to the crews," Podvig says.
Russia has a lot of nuclear weapons at the ready​Russia has more nuclear weapons than any other nation on Earth, according to Hans Kristensen, director of the nuclear information project at the Federation of American Scientists.
"We estimate that they have about 4,500 or so nuclear warheads in their military stockpile," he says.
For now, Russia's largest nuclear weapons — aboard its submarines, bombers and intercontinental ballistic missiles — appear to be at their usual level of alert, Kristensen says. But the nation's stockpile also includes nearly 2,000 so-called tactical nuclear weapons, which are kept in storage facilities throughout Russia.





Russia's Iskander missile system is currently being used in the conflict in Ukraine. It can launch both conventional missiles and battlefield nuclear weapons.
Russian Defense Ministry Press Service/AP
"They were developed for the purpose of fighting a limited regional battle. Sort of a nuclear war in a very small area," says Kristensen.
The U.S. has about 100 nuclear bombs stationed across Europe that could be used for tactical nuclear warfare.
The Kremlin's battlefield weapons can be launched on the same short-range missiles Russia is currently using to bombard Ukraine, such as its Iskander ballistic missile.
Right now, there's no indication that the battlefield nukes have been pulled out of storage.
Russia says it would use nuclear weapons only as a last resort, but some are skeptical​Russia officially says it would use nuclear weapons only if the nation's very survival was at risk. But not everyone thinks its nuclear rules are so clear-cut.
"A lot of people have questioned whether the bar for Russian nuclear use is as high as its official statements say," says Olga Oliker with the International Crisis Group.
In 2018, the Pentagon's nuclear posture review warned that Russia might use a battlefield nuke to "'de-escalate' a conflict on terms favorable to Russia." In other words, Russia might detonate a smaller weapon to get its opponents to back off.
That statement was somewhat controversial among arms control experts at the time. Oliker believes such action would only possibly happen in a direct war with NATO forces.
In the current conflict with Ukraine, "I think it's very unlikely that Moscow is just going to lob a nuclear weapon at something," she says. "Obviously it's been a week when a lot of people's assumptions have been challenged, but I'll cling to this one for a while."
The risk of miscalculation is higher than it's been in years​Putin's latest statements may amount to little more than nuclear saber-rattling, says Jeffrey Lewis, a senior scholar at the Middlebury Institute of International Studies at Monterey.
"Putin has had a pretty bad-news week," he says. "The Ukrainian army is fighting back, which he didn't expect. The Russian army is performing dreadfully. They are indiscriminately shelling civilian areas. Those things all make him look weak, and the best way to push those headlines down a little bit is a nuclear threat."
But Lewis says there is still plenty of nuclear risk. Putin has already miscalculated in his invasion of Ukraine.
"What would happen if the Russian warning system had a false alarm in the middle of a crisis like this?" he asks. "Would Putin know it was a false alarm? Or would he jump to the wrong conclusion?"
Even if the short-range battlefield nuclear weapons are still on the shelf, thousands of Russian and American long-range missiles are ready to launch in just minutes. That threat hangs over everything as the conflict in Ukraine drags on.


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## srshkmr

HydNizam said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498660141566402562


Says the guy who holds teenager students hostage

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## Zibago

Lehrasap said:


> Dear friend, please try to understand the consequences for humanity for this behavior.
> This means no voice for Rohingya Muslims from the West.
> No voice against the fanatic Hindus of BJP against the Indian Muslims.
> This also mean no voice against China for killing its Muslim population.
> 
> And the peak of this evil will be when even Muslim population in the West will be discriminated and killed and kicked out, then there will be no Voice left in the West against it.


There is never a voice for uncivilized Muslims so I don't know its a bit difficult to show humanity when there is none to be found when we are at the receiving end

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## khansaheeb

Biden happy to see Russians stuck in the Quagmire, never seen him so happy?

4 hr 21 min ago
Biden pledges US forces "will not engage in the conflict with Russian forces in Ukraine"​From CNN's DJ Judd






(Sarahbeth Maney/The New York Times/AP)

President Joe Biden expressed solidarity with Ukrainian people in his State of the Union address on Tuesday -- but reiterated that the US would not deploy troops to Ukraine.
“Let each of us here tonight in this Chamber, if you’re able to stand, stand and send an unmistakable signal to Ukraine and to the world," he said -- receiving a loud standing ovation from the members, many of whom wore blue and yellow in support of Ukraine. Ukraine's Ambassador to the United States, Oksana Markarova, stood beside first lady Jill Biden as the chamber applauded, holding her country’s flag.
“We, the United States of America, stand with the Ukrainian people,” Biden said. 
*But he added:*


> “Let me be clear — our forces are not engaged and will not engage in the conflict with Russian forces in Ukraine," he told members of Congress gathered for his State of the Union address. American troops were deployed to Europe not to fight in Ukraine, “but to defend our NATO allies in the event that Putin decides to keep moving west," he said.


“For that purpose, we have mobilized American ground forces, air squadrons, ship deployments to protect NATO countries including Poland, Romania, Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia,” he added. 
*NATO's Article 5: *Previously, Biden has said the US would hold fast to NATO’s Article 5 principle, which says that an attack on one NATO country is an attack on all member counties.
In Tuesday’s remarks, he pledged, “As I’ve made crystal clear, the United States and our Allies will defend every inch of territory of NATO countries with the full force of our collective power.” 
He added that the US and its allies were providing “more than $1 billion in direct assistance to Ukraine,” including military, economic, and humanitarian aide.
*Follow our live coverage of Biden's State of the Union address **here.*


----------



## Zibago

jamahir said:


> Which Humanist movement are you talking about ? Certainly not the Communists, Socialists and Occupy movement.


The European humanist who used Afghanis and Iraqis as target practice in their sadistic games and got pardoned for doing so

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## dBSPL

Madni Bappa said:


> I don't understand why Turks are bouncing up and down so much?


what a dumb question

I am an individual. This is a forum and I share my own ideas. And these ideas of mine are by no means pro-NATO or pro-EU. Dont be lazy just take look my msg history.

You think you understand the geopolitical dynamics of the region from 4000/10.000 km away. But you can't stand when Turks write something? There is a war on the opposite side of the sea that I am looking at right now. We have familiarity and experience with a form of Russian politics that goes back centuries. Even the stupidest opinion in Turkey is based on more concrete foundations than yours.

I don't want to break your heart, so deal with your own writing, not mine.

By the way, I noticed that your membership date is March 2. Probably another false flag case.

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## jamahir

HydNizam said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498660141566402562



What a shameless appeal to the Hindutvadis !

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## Vapnope

jamahir said:


> What a shameless appeal to the Hindutvadis !


Very clever of him to use these words.

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## Enigma SIG

vi-va said:


> Biden says Putin may encircle Ukraine with tanks, but can't defeat the heart and souls of the Iranian people.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498847898406203394


What a sorry excuse of a President. I wonder if they're injecting him with Ivermectin.

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## Madni Bappa

dBSPL said:


> what a dumb question
> 
> I am an individual. This is a forum and I share my own ideas. And these ideas of mine are by no means pro-NATO or pro-EU. Dont be lazy just take look my msg history.
> 
> You think you understand the geopolitical dynamics of the region from 4000/10.000 km away. But you can't stand when Turks write something? There is a war on the opposite side of the sea that I am looking at right now. We have familiarity and experience with a form of Russian politics that goes back centuries. Even the stupidest opinion in Turkey is based on more concrete foundations than yours.
> 
> I don't want to break your heart, so deal with your own writing, not mine.
> 
> By the way, I noticed that your membership date is March 2. Probably another false flag case.


Damn calm down bro. Just don't get how you buy S400 Erdoğan has goodie goodie chats ice cream and outings with Putin

Then all of a sudden you're all for Ukraine and TB2s etc. 

So confused.



HindK84 said:


> And more than what you mentioned above,, In short, a new world order was born, China, is the heart of it and soon we will witness an Internet system that competes with the Americans, another financial system that does not depend on the dollar, and a banking system that does not depend on Swift alone, and an unannounced alliance in the face of the directions of the United States,Swift will lose big share of the market value


Could the world be divided on color now? Cuz I see a lot of non white and Asian countries not falling for US and EU randi rona



Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498910127558168580


What's sbu?

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## dBSPL

The Ukrainian resistance causes the world public to have “too” optimistic ideas. The Russians can still launch a fairly strong offensive. Despite the great destructions and the loss of personnel/equipment that is not easy to compensate, there may be developments that will make it difficult for Ukraine in the next round of negotiations.


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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498812441068724226

They seem to have some good stuff in Kyiv which this guy took in large quantity

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## Muhammed45

vi-va said:


> Biden says Putin may encircle Ukraine with tanks, but can't defeat the heart and souls of the Iranian people.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498847898406203394


I think he forgot to have the red pills. 

Go to sleep Joe.

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## Elias MC

Madni Bappa said:


> Maldita sea, cálmate hermano. Simplemente no entiendas cómo compras S400 Erdoğan tiene golosinas, charlas, helados y salidas con Putin.
> 
> Entonces, de repente, estás a favor de Ucrania y TB2, etc.
> 
> Muy confundido.
> 
> 
> ¿Podría el mundo estar dividido en color ahora? Porque veo muchos países no blancos y asiáticos que no se enamoran de EE. UU. y la UE randi rona
> 
> 
> ¿Qué es sbu?











Security Service of Ukraine - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## alimobin memon

Live feeds show as if there is no war...


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## Madni Bappa

Muhammed45 said:


> I think he forgot to have the red pills.
> 
> Go to sleep Joe.


Joe Biden and America really need blue pills. If they want to remain policemen of the world.

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## Darius77

onebyone said:


> Why Middle East won’t join US in isolating Russia
> 
> 
> The world community is aghast over the acute tensions between the United States and its NATO allies on one side and Russia on the other, which is poised critically on the brink of a military confro…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asiatimes.com


After what destruction and genocide, the racist American and NATO hyenas have wrought on the Muslim world, only a completely demented moron would support Ukrainian Nazis who sent 7,000 troops to Iraq to kill Muslims. Not a single Russian participated in US and Zionist wars against Russia. This Indian Ambassador is quite smart and his analysis along with Pepe Escobar, a Brazilian are spot on.

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## Madni Bappa

alimobin memon said:


> Live feeds show as if there is no war...







Ruko zara
Sabr karo

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## Lehrasap

Daylamite Warrior said:


> I never said Muslims did the same things as the westerners, you're putting words in my mouth. They did conquer, but they never pillaged, rape or genocided like the westerners did or still do today. Even the slave trade of the Muslim under Muhammad was a far cry from the brutal slave conditions by the western colonisers which was still a thing in America in living memory! Please do not compare Islam with the west. Islam is more humanistic than the west.


Sadly, you are brainwashed about the cruelties of your religion against the slaves. Women were indeed raped (and much worse than Christianity or Judaism). And the male prisoners were indeed slaughtered (like ISIS does today). All this happened on the level of genocide. And all the small children were also enslaved for the whole of their lives. And even the coming generations of those slaves were automatically born as slaves too due to the evil of "slavery by birth" in your religion. 

I am not going to start a religious debate here, but you should come out of your religious propaganda. 

Credit goes only to the Western humanist movement which started in 15th century after breaking the powers of Chruch, which first ended the slavery and all those cruelties. No religion, no Islam, no Christianity, no Judaism could come even close to the blessing of this humanist movement. 



Daylamite Warrior said:


> Im just showing that the west has a knack for being a lot more brutal than the Muslims, and the historical evidence is clear to see. Humanists are hypocrites since you never hear them support Palestine or Muslims, they just critizise us and boast about taking our lands. We see right through the fakery. Humanists are virtue signallers.



It is only due to the opposition and protest of this left-wing movement in the West, which controlled the Israelis not to kick out the remaining Palestinians and occupy the whole land. Otherwise, just as Putin kicked out all the Ukrainians from Crimea, and declared it a part of Russia, same fate would have happened to Palestinians too. 
Sadly, you are not going to do justice, and still keep on blaming this humanitarian movement to be responsible for all the crimes of the past. 



Daylamite Warrior said:


> Im not putting a knife in your back, that would imply me being two faced...rather I'm being upfront with you in that no westerner has the right to call themselves humanists especially those who profess a left wing liberal orientation. Fool me once, shame...shame on you lol...



Either you realize it or not, but you are indeed putting a knife in the back of this humanist movement with this behavior. 
The final results of this behavior will come only in form of right-wing parties getting popularity in the West, and Trump ideology winning all over.


----------



## Muhammed45

Iskander-M TBMs began new phase of deadly attacks against Ukraine. 

Military sites of Kiev bombed.


----------



## arjunk

Corax said:


> This is a massive realignment of global strategic tectonic plates, with the World increasingly split again between the 'West', and a new 'Eastern block' comprising Russia, China, Turkey, Pakistan, and perhaps many more to come. A very interesting time in history to be living in, I must say.


The Second Cold war will be The West (led by the US) vs The World (led by China). The West has shown utter disregard for non whites and China has the money to buy sellout politicians like the US normally would. I actually believe chances of The West winning this one are slim.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498921073471070216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498921698355294210

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498922333813321731

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498925666758234114

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498924621780996101

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498710993391828994https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1498834359151116288?t=q6zqdnKVBR_Gz6vmcssg0g&s=19
https://twitter.com/UNWatch/status/1498778001009426438?t=F1m4IxlkAo9irQpmUsBl1A&s=19


----------



## Muhammed45

Russian military column on its way to Kiev. It is possible that RUssian ground forces conquer Kiev today.

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## Madni Bappa

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498921073471070216
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498921698355294210
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498922333813321731
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498925666758234114
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498924621780996101
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498710993391828994https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1498834359151116288?t=q6zqdnKVBR_Gz6vmcssg0g&s=19
> https://twitter.com/UNWatch/status/1498778001009426438?t=F1m4IxlkAo9irQpmUsBl1A&s=19


Russians doing a great job man

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## dBSPL

Madni Bappa said:


> I don't understand why Turks are bouncing up and down so much? In the end they won't let you into EU club cuz y'all muslim man.





Madni Bappa said:


> Damn calm down bro. Just don't get how you buy S400 Erdoğan has goodie goodie chats ice cream and outings with Putin



What does these have to do with any of the messages I've written here?

You probably noticed my flag and then you are trying to make fun of the nation I belong to in a way that shows your level of intelligence. Typical troll behavior. Now you are trying to develop absurd analogies by taking the subject out of context. If you can use the forum's search function effectively, you can eliminate your ignorance about the topics that are on your mind. But we both know that's not your problem. I've seen countless trolls like you and buried some of them myself. So, please don't be in my area of interest.

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## Enigma SIG

https://www.rt.com/russia/550983-kiev-tv-tower-explosions/



Hitting the propaganda machine

At least two large explosions hit Kiev TV tower on Tuesday, sending a massive column of smoke above the Ukrainian capital, unverified videos show. The blasts disrupted the work of multiple TV channels, the Ukrainian Interior Ministry has confirmed.

The country’s emergency services said that five people were killed and five more were injured as a result of what they referred to as _“shelling.”_ Earlier, Ukrainian minister of culture said that no TV employees were injured or killed in the blasts.

Unverified footage circulating online shows smoke billowing from buildings by the tower moments after the first blast.



Another video shows the broadcasting facility was hit by a second major explosion shortly after the first one.


It was not immediately clear what exactly caused the explosions, but the blasts came shortly after Russia’s Defense Ministry warned about imminent strikes on the Ukrainian capital. The Russian military said it would strike strategically important targets, used by Ukraine’s military and intelligence, including comms installations, urging civilians living nearby to take shelter. However, Moscow is yet to confirm whether its military carried out any such strikes.

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## Bilal.

Adonis said:


> Mine was opposite...they migrated to Pakistan and moved out within 10 years to NZ.
> 
> By the way migrant still sound nice...they call them Muhajir.....in Arabic, Muhajirs were the first convert to Islam on advise of prophet Mohammad (PBUH)...so for Pakistanis Muslims, Indian migrant Muslims were equal to first converts....


You are a liar. Muhajir is a term we are sticking to. In fact, if you go through this very forum you will find people of other communities complaining why we still call ourselves muhajirs after all these years. Which I kind of agree.

Also your concept of first converts as being degrading also shows how much you are aware of Islam. The fact is the first converts have higher position in Islam as compared to later ones. As first converts were literally the first Muslims including the first four Khalifas Rashidun. So *if *someone calls you similar to the first converts (which no one is) it’s actually a great honor being compared to some of the greatest Sahabas.

Third Muhajir term is not limited to first converts. It’s any Muslim who migrate due to oppression. Including the first converts who migrated from Makkah to Medina.

@Areesh @HRK

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498928899295694848

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498929707932397568


----------



## Daylamite Warrior

Lehrasap said:


> Sadly, you are brainwashed about the cruelties of your religion against the slaves. Women were indeed raped (and much worse than Christianity or Judaism). And the male prisoners were indeed slaughtered (like ISIS does today). All this happened on the level of genocide. And all the small children were also enslaved for the whole of their lives. And even the coming generations of those slaves were automatically born as slaves too due to the evil of "slavery by birth" in your religion.
> 
> I am not going to start a religious debate here, but you should come out of your religious propaganda.
> 
> Credit goes only to the Western humanist movement which started in 15th century after breaking the powers of Chruch, which first ended the slavery and all those cruelties. No religion, no Islam, no Christianity, no Judaism could come even close to the blessing of this humanist movement.
> 
> 
> 
> It is only due to the opposition and protest of this left-wing movement in the West, which controlled the Israelis not to kick out the remaining Palestinians and occupy the whole land. Otherwise, just as Putin kicked out all the Ukrainians from Crimea, and declared it a part of Russia, same fate would have happened to Palestinians too.
> Sadly, you are not going to do justice, and still keep on blaming this humanitarian movement to be responsible for all the crimes of the past.
> 
> 
> 
> Either you realize it or not, but you are indeed putting a knife in the back of this humanist movement with this behavior.
> The final results of this behavior will come only in form of right-wing parties getting popularity in the West, and Trump ideology winning all over.


Dont you dare label ISIS as Islamic! They are a western funded proxy group who even the most ardent wahabi scholars denounce as unbelievers! Get a grip. There is no evidence of Muslims, especially Early Caliphate who engaged in rape or pillaging. I need evidence, so open up a thread and show it. Prior to the Crusades and their far greater crimes, you have no evidence of genocide or mass murder by Muslim armies. Yes, if you reneged on a treaty then you deserved what you get...far cry from butchering entire towns like western christians did or like zionists do. Stop revising well documented history.

Slaves in Islam were so easy to get freed, any mistreatment meant they were freed, like as little as a slap would render a slave freed. If they were non-believing slaves and were mistreated, all they had to do was profess to be a Muslim and then they were free even if they lied. Compare that to the brutal slave trade of the much later western slave trade. Born into slavery and you could never escape whatever you tried to do, and constantly raped and mutilated at the whims of the masters.

You need to stop flooding this thread of predominantly Muslims and force us to dance to your hypocrisy, especially with the threat and justification of Muslims being genocided if we choose not to. It's clear to see that the west is the enemy of Muslims from what you're saying.

Lol the humanist movement is a godless hypocrisy which clearly engages in double speak. Slavery was never abolished in 15th Century so you can add bare faced liars to that too.

Both left and right wing westerners have legitimised zionist crimes against palestine and turn a blind eye to the ethnic cleansing of Russians in Ukraine. We dont need humanists to protect us, our faith in Allah is all we need and to stick together with fellow believers.

No I'm stabbing you in the front with my eyes staring in your eyes. Stop your genocidal black mailing...all this chaos that Russia is bringing to the west is justice for the western crimes against non-Europeans....and it's only been 6 days! So maybe you should consider Islam if you don't want Russian nukes to rain on your head.

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## Englishman

lastofthepatriots said:


> View attachment 820008
> 
> 
> Baby Putin captured by Ukrainian forces. Where is Vladi daddy?


Do you really believe this is real?

Take a close look at the red armband. You've been sharing dubious crap on this thread all week.

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## Darius77

More Ukrainian lies falling apart as even the western media resorts to FACT CHECK after insane Ukrainian propaganda and sheer nonsense.

It has also led to mythologising of the Ukrainian air force, including a tale about a Ukrainian jet fighter that purportedly single-handedly downed six Russian aircraft, dubbed online “The Ghost of Kyiv”.


A Reuters Fact Check showed how a clip from the videogame Digital Combat Simulator was miscaptioned online to claim it was an actual Ukrainian fighter jet shooting down a Russian plane.

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## NotSure

Lehrasap said:


> What should Selensky do? Just surrender?


Yes, unconditional surrender.

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## Enigma SIG

Englishman said:


> Do you really believe this is real?
> 
> Take a close look at the red armband. You've been sharing dubious crap on this thread all week.


Russia should've taken out the comms infrastructure on the first day. So much propaganda for willing folks to suck up to.

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## jhungary

That Guy said:


> Lol, if you read my comments from the beginning, I explained pretty much everything, and so far, it's going exactly like I explained.
> 
> Russia's economy is in shambles, and they have only one nation to turn to, China.
> 
> China isn't stupid, they'll use this opportunity to turn Russia into a junior partner, basically "do as we say, or your economy is fucked".
> 
> Russia joining the Chinese SWIFT alternative is basically step 2, with step 1 being Russia signing major gas deals with the Chinese to offset the chance the Europeans cut off Russian gas. All that's left is China pouring money into Russia's central bank either directly or indirectly, and it's pretty much over for Russia.
> 
> But of course you won't care about what I wrote. The fact that you had to resort to calling me a child is quite telling, and makes me laugh.


I actually don't think the Chinese is stupid enough to do that

Free Gas, Oil, Wheat for loan, maybe, propping up the ENTIRE Russian economy? Especially with what happening to Ukraine and most likely asked to rebuild? That's a 1.4 Trillions dollar (as of 2022) size Blackhole that just going to suck money in without any return. Probably not

Many people here forget China is basically a big businessman, which mean unless there are advantage or money to be had, there are going to be no help, and Russia and China are no where near the level of alliance between US and UK. I would consider Russia to be lucky if China did not recover the disputed land from Russia after this...

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## Daylamite Warrior

Lehrasap said:


> Do you really want to start a religious debate here by making such false claims?
> 
> And what household?
> This household in which a captive lady is raped by the owner, and once fulfilling her sexual lust in a Temporary Sexual Relationship (like Shia Muta), he was allowed to sell the captive lady to another owner, who again raped her and sold her to the 3rd owner for raping her .... ?
> 
> Jews and Christians were also notorious for slavery, but at least they had to marry the captive women in order to have sex with her, and after the marriage, she became like a regular wife, and could not be sold further after the temporary sexual Muta type relationship.
> 
> The credit of freeing humanity from slavery goes neither to Islam, nor to any other religion, but only and only to the modern humanist movement of the West.


There has to be consent between a Muslim captor and slave, rape of slaves was punishable by death and the slave was freed in Islamic law. Mutah is forbidden in Sunni Islam so again youre strawmanning us. Mutah in shiaism is also consentual and requires a contract, so again you're the one with false claims. 

Dont lie, western slaves were systematically raped, as were Muslim captives under Christian crusades. Then they were killed in the case of the crusades. Freeing of slaves as a virtue and act of worship is riddled throughout the Quran and Sunnah...so humanists clearly are copying Islamic values.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498932012194881537

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498932118205968388

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498931729159102465

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498932517524709377

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498931920578793472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498931454406967303


----------



## NotSure

jhungary said:


> I said "*Engagement distant*" and you are quoting "*Maximum Range*", that is why I said the Javelin engagement distant is 800 to 1200 meters, when the "*MAXIMUM RANGE*" is depends on type of missile from 2500 to 4000 (CLU Lightweight) meters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FGM-148 Javelin - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, ALL AT MISSILE designed to outrange Tank Gun, this is not WW2, we don't hide under foxhole and shoot missile on the tank belly.
> 
> Try shooting a *AT Round *on a T80/T-90 with no computer stabilised system at 2000 meters and you will see what? I was a 19A (Armor Officer) I tried that on a M1 Abrams (with better computer control) and you would not be able to hit a target at what we refer to as "Skirt Range" beyond 2000 meters. But of course, wannabe like you would have no way to know.
> 
> Another post showing you know NOTHING about Military And the fact you jump on the wrong term itself is PRICELESS LOL
> 
> HAHAHA.......sorry, I have to laugh....


Now you start mixing up things. First my problem with your post was *NOT* the range of the javelin!

Second: You talked not about a fight tank vs. tank, no, but tank with HE-Frag against infantry. Complete different story.

If you miss a tank even by few cm you missed it completely. If your 120/125mm HE-Frag shell hits 1-*2m *near the center and not exactly in the center of the group ... well, you know what happens.

So the engagement range here is much bigger than your quoted value for a tank vs. tank duel. Which is by the way a 1970s value for first batches of T-72.

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## OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ

Lehrasap said:


> Do you really want to start a religious debate here by making such false claims?
> 
> And what household?
> This household in which a captive lady is raped by the owner, and once fulfilling her sexual lust in a Temporary Sexual Relationship (like Shia Muta), he was allowed to sell the captive lady to another owner, who again raped her and sold her to the 3rd owner for raping her .... ?
> 
> Jews and Christians were also notorious for slavery, but at least they had to marry the captive women in order to have sex with her, and after the marriage, she became like a regular wife, and could not be sold further after the temporary sexual Muta type relationship.
> 
> The credit of freeing humanity from slavery goes neither to Islam, nor to any other religion, but only and only to the modern humanist movement of the West.



Stop with the fantasies already, willya?
Enough of pretense and projection... What is modern humanist movement as opposed to it's preceding, former or contemporary humanist? This is Russia-Ukraine war thread... and you're peddling another ruse, smoke and mirrors, another utopia!
Some people are gifted that way... on the fly, like a chameleon drift with changing winds... a kind of coping or defense mechanism, a survival instinct perhaps even an aim to fit in... accepted even... something like a chimera or a multi denominational church etc.

Stop the charade, willya? For your own sanity!

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498932683233284096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498667886168231939

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498748699958198277

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498933253289521153


----------



## Lehrasap

NotSure said:


> Yes, unconditional surrender.



So, do you mean Pakistanis and Kashmiris do unconditional surrender to the Indian Army. 
And Palestinians should also surrender unconditionally to the Israelis too?


----------



## NotSure

Lehrasap said:


> So, do you mean Pakistanis and Kashmiris do unconditional surrender to the Indian Army.
> And Palestinians should also surrender unconditionally to the Israelis too?


We are in the ukrainian war thread ...

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## Lehrasap

Daylamite Warrior said:


> There has to be consent between a Muslim captor and slave, rape of slaves was punishable by death and the slave was freed in Islamic law. Mutah is forbidden in Sunni Islam so again youre strawmanning us. Mutah in shiaism is also consentual and requires a contract, so again you're the one with false claims.
> 
> Dont lie, western slaves were systematically raped, as were Muslim captives under Christian crusades. Then they were killed in the case of the crusades. Freeing of slaves as a virtue and act of worship is riddled throughout the Quran and Sunnah...so humanists clearly are copying Islamic values.



You have no idea how bad the Islamic slavery is, and all that you claimed about Islamic slavery, these are only the lies. 
But it is not your fault as this happens when Muslim hears only the one-sided propaganda.

Forum rules perhaps do not allow me to start any criticism of religion, that is why I stop here. But if you want to really know about the real face of Islamic slavery, and then come to any non-Muslim forum and I will be happy to show the real Truth.


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## dBSPL

Airbus has stopped supplying spare parts to Russian aircraft. It will not be maintained anymore. They ended all operations in Russia.

France and the EU continue to expand the scope of economic sanctions against Russia.

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## Daylamite Warrior

Lehrasap said:


> You have no idea how bad the Islamic slavery is, and all that you claimed about Islamic slavery, these are only the lies.
> But it is not your fault as this happens when Muslim hears only the one-sided propaganda.
> 
> Forum rules perhaps do not allow me to start any criticism of religion, that is why I stop here. But if you want to really know about the real face of Islamic slavery, and then come to any non-Muslim forum and I will be happy to show the real Truth.


I actually have a pretty good idea of Islamic slavery as I have read hadeeth and seera of the Prophet, and studied Muslim Caliphate. Also western historians have documented the crimes of crusades and colonialists so my source is primary and encompasses all sides. It is clear as day you suffer from a lack of reading on the matter and fall into the fallacy of presentism. I dont need some non-Muslim enemies of Islam to tell me about my religion, especially from a so called civilisation that has a vile track record of slavery, pedophilia, racism, genocide and revising history.

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## Hassan Guy

Imagine going back to the Soviet era and telling people this war would happen.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498934045677342724

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498937812636340224


----------



## patero

jhungary said:


> I actually don't think the Chinese is stupid enough to do that
> 
> Free Gas, Oil, Wheat for loan, maybe, propping up the ENTIRE Russian economy? Especially with what happening to Ukraine and most likely asked to rebuild? That's a 1.4 Trillions dollar (as of 2022) size Blackhole that just going to suck money in without any return. Probably not
> 
> Many people here forget China is basically a big businessman, which mean unless there are advantage or money to be had, there are going to be no help, and Russia and China are no where near the level of alliance between US and UK. I would consider Russia to be lucky if China did not recover the disputed land from Russia after this...


Also he's wrong about Russia and China being able to work around the SWIFT system.
'The RMB cross border payment system still relies on banks as nodes, which can be sanctioned and influenced. For example China's own payment system can avoid the SWIFT sytem controlled by the US, but the nodes in the middle are all banks. The United States can sanction these banks. If nobody is allowed to do business with Chinese banks and others really follow up and co-operate, then this Chinese system will not work.' -Xin Chen, professor of Finance at Shanghai Advanced Institute of Finance, Shanghai Jiao Tong University.

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## dBSPL

Countries that have closed their airspace to Russia are shown in red.








According to this map, Albania and Turkey are the only NATO members that have not closed airspace to Russia.

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## Lehrasap

OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ said:


> Stop with the fantasies already, willya?
> Enough of pretense and projection... What is modern humanist movement as opposed to it's preceding, former or contemporary humanist? This is Russia-Ukraine war thread... and you're peddling another ruse, smoke and mirrors, another utopia!
> Some people are gifted that way... on the fly, like a chameleon drift with changing winds... a kind of coping or defense mechanism, a survival instinct perhaps even an aim to fit in... accepted even... something like a chimera or a multi denominational church etc.
> 
> Stop the charade, willya? For your own sanity!




Is the abolition of slavery is a fantasy? 

Is the migration of millions of Muslims towards the Secular European countries is a fantasy? 

You could deny this humanist movement and keep on putting a knife in its back, but then you will get the reply automatically in form of strengthening of the right-wing in form of Trump and in form of Indian BJP and Natenyahu of Israel. 

Things started with only this small request to not to become indifferent to the flowing of human blood in this Ukranian crises by saying "Not our war, as we gain nothing". 

Whenever human blood flows, wherever it flows, it is indeed our war as human beings.

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## jhungary

NotSure said:


> Now you start mixing up things. First my problem with your post was *NOT* the range of the javelin!
> 
> Second: You talked not about a fight tank vs. tank, no, but tank with HE-Frag against infantry. If you miss a tank even by few cm you missed it completely. If your 120/125mm HE-Frag shell hits 1-*2m *near the center and not exactly in the center of the group ... well, you know what happens.



Oh my god, do you have comprehension problem??

This is what I wrote



> 3.) Sorry was meant to say flat land. The problem is that Russia still have not control the air even after day 6, running large Armor Column in open field is going to make it easy prey on Ukrainian Air Asset.
> 
> Also, it's worth notice that the *tradition engagement distant* for Javelin is 800-1200 meters, somewhat within T-80/ T-90 gun range (Which is about 1500), technically, you can engage Russia Armor with Javelin (Not sure what is the spec of N-LAW) outside T80/T-90 Gun range at 2000 meter, but the operator would have to be very skilful, because there are a lot of adjustment to make, and I am not sure if Ukrainian are that skilled on using Javelin. So I would suggest that they are probably engaging Russian Armor at range about 800 to 1000 meters


This is what you wrote



> Lol, you as a "military expert" *really believing the gun range of a T-90 is 1500m? I repeat: 1500m*? From were you got this utter nonsense?



First of all, I NEVER even mentioned the word "Range" any where, Engagement Distant is *NOT* a range. So by quoting my word and then said "Range", that's MISTAKE #1

Engagement distant vary by *A LOT OF DIFFERNET FACTOR*, in the field, we call them "comfort zone" a minimum distant I felt comfortable to engage an enemy, it could range from how you adjust your system, calibration, or even weather. Range on the other end is the lower/upper limit of things. Like Minimum Range is the lowest number you can engage, for example, the minimal Range of a 40mm Grenade is 10 meters because it won't armed unless it spin that many rotation, Maximum Range of an Aircraft is the maximum number of miles (or km or nm) it can travel with maximum fuel on board.

In the case of Javelin, the *MAXIMUM RANGE FOR* a Javelin missile is 4000 meters (If I use CLU Light Weight Missile) but you probably will not be able to hit that target at 4000 meters practically. Because to do that, you would need to adjust for gravitational pull, weight compensation, and also how you follow the missile with your scope, for a trained operator, like me, I can hit a target between 1500 - 2000 meters. That is the engagement distant for most of the Javelin Operator. For less trained guy, I gave them800-1200

A Tank is a different thing. And actually at distant, it's easier to hit a tank than a human size target. Have you ever go to a gun range and fire a gun? The Further away from a target, the Minute of Angle change, for a 1 degree angle you missed to the left or to the right, at 10 meter, that MOA is going to be about 1 centimetre. at 100 meters, the MOA would be at 10 centimetre, at 1000 meters, if your rounds are 1 degree off target, you are talking a miss my 1 meter. Hence you have a better chance to hit a bigger target. Use of explosive HE or Anti-Personnel round does not deviate that degree of inaccuracy, you just compensate by having a blast radius. And tank don't do 1MOA.

And finally, just because your tank gun can shoot 2700 meters, that does not mean you will hit anything at 2700 meters, there is a minimum engaging distant between different target, the furthest is against Hard Target (building and so on) that's because that IS THE BIGGEST TARGET, the next furthest is another Armor, because that is the next biggest target, and finally the closest is human target. That's because it's the smallest. Effectively if you are aiming at a dude at 1500 meters or more, you WILL miss more than you hit, because you are trying to hit the smallest target at a large distant.

Not familiar with how a tank work is your Mistake Number #2.


----------



## dBSPL

Kherson conflicts drone footage

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498936498460184576


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## jhungary

patero said:


> Also he's wrong about Russia and China being able to work around the SWIFT system.
> 'The RMB cross border payment system still relies on banks as nodes, which can be sanctioned and influenced. For example China's own payment system can avoid the SWIFT sytem controlled by the US, but the nodes in the middle are all banks. The United States can sanction these banks. If nobody is allowed to do business with Chinese banks and others really follow up and co-operate, then this Chinese system will not work.' -Xin Chen, professor of Finance at Shanghai Advanced Institute of Finance, Shanghai Jiao Tong University.


True, one thing tho, SWIFT was controlled by EU (They are a Belgium company) but you can still prosecute them for violating sanction thus control them. US have a say with SWIFT (both because of the sheer amount of US bank in the Settlement list and the Political Prosecution) but the ultimate control is under Belgium.

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## dBSPL

National Police building in Kharkiv

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498917644141006849
Current situation according to Russian information sources:

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## NotSure

jhungary said:


> Hence you have a better chance to hit a bigger target. Use of explosive HE or Anti-Personnel round does not deviate that degree of inaccuracy, you just compensate by having a blast radius. And tank don't do MOA 1.


You *DO NOT NEED *to hit the target, here the human itself, directly. Duh.

All your walls of text about MOA etc. will change absolutely nothing about this fact. And you still don't get it.

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## jhungary

NotSure said:


> You *DO NOT NEED *to hit the target, here the human itself, directly. Duh.
> 
> All your walls of text will change nothing about this fact.


Dude, explosive compensation only get you around +/-5 meter accuracy, and I am being Generous. It will do nothing if you miss by -10 to - >50 meters. If you engage your target at 1500m range.

Again, this is something you *WILL NEVER UDNERSTAND* as you never even shoot the gun in a tank. You probably never even saw the inside of a tank.

just because you point your tank gun at something does not mean you will hit it, be it a building, a tank or a human, just because you are using High Explosive round, A MISS IS A MISS, sure, if you miss by an inch, you will probably going to kill that target, but you are talking about long range gunnery like 1500 meters, a miss by an inch on a human size target is basically a hit. In reality it will be more like you will miss that target left and right 50 to 100 meters away.


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498941956185104385


----------



## Daylamite Warrior

Lehrasap said:


> Is the abolition of slavery is a fantasy?
> 
> Is the migration of millions of Muslims towards the Secular European countries is a fantasy?
> 
> You could deny this humanist movement and keep on putting a knife in its back, but then you will get the reply automatically in form of strengthening of the right-wing in form of Trump and in form of Indian BJP and Natenyahu of Israel.
> 
> Things started with only this small request to not to become indifferent to the flowing of human blood in this Ukranian crises by saying "Not our war, as we gain nothing".
> 
> Whenever human blood flows, wherever it flows, it is indeed our war as human beings.


Where was your virtue signalling for the Russian blood that the US backed Zelensky regime has inflicted for 8 years? Gotcha!

Obviously humans will escape from where there is war, especially wars brought by westerners both left and right of the political spectrum. The justice of Allah is such that when you took our Caliphate, Allah allowed hundreds of mosques in the West and Islamisation of European countries....and there is nothing you can do about it short of genocide, which many of your ilk suggest in various forums but dont have the gumption to do.

Us not wanting to subscribe to your godless fake movement doesnt mean we deserve genocide. We are free to choose Who we worship and who we support.

War is a necessity of life from an Islamic perspective. If one power goes unchecked then there will be rampant injustice. If Nato expansion is unchecked and we head to a one world government lead by the west you get abnormalities like turning blind eyes to genocide of non-europeans and selective condemnation according who falls short in subscribing to their ideology. So Russia is Allah sending another power to check another, you will never have this one world globalism based on hypocritical western values.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498928101979471872


----------



## Vergennes

T72BM3*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498931729159102465


----------



## NotSure

jhungary said:


> Dude, explosive compensation only get you around +/-5 meter accuracy, and I am being Generous. It will do nothing if you miss by -10 to -50 meters. If you engage your target at 1500m range.
> 
> Again, this is something you WILL NEVER UDNERSTAND as you never even shoot the gun in a tank. You probably never even saw the inside of a tank.


50m at 1500m with a 125mm cannon? Why not 500m? Or 5km?

It is getting ridiculous now.

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## dBSPL

Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu: "We will not participate in sanctions against Russia. In principle, we are not a party to sanctions."

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Lehrasap

Daylamite Warrior said:


> I actually have a pretty good idea of Islamic slavery as I have read hadeeth and seera of the Prophet, and studied Muslim Caliphate. Also western historians have documented the crimes of crusades and colonialists so my source is primary and encompasses all sides. It is clear as day you suffer from a lack of reading on the matter and fall into the fallacy of presentism. I dont need some non-Muslim enemies of Islam to tell me about my religion, especially from a so called civilisation that has a vile track record of slavery, pedophilia, racism, genocide and revising history.



Your claims will not gain any weight till the time you don't come to debate me one to one along with your proof.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jhungary

NotSure said:


> 50m at 1500m with a 125mm cannon? Why not 500m? Or 5km?
> 
> It is getting ridiculous now.


You do know the accuracy ratio is VERY HIGH if you miss by 50 meters at a 1500 meters range. The Error Probability is 0.3%.....That mean it is *VERY ACCURATE*.

EDI : (TO A HUMAN SIZE TARGET NOT AN ARMOR)

But then again, why would I assume you know that? LOL


----------



## waz

The Russians are levelling the place, Ukrainian forces have taken massive casualties. I don’t see this continuing much longer. There’s talk of gas and water lines being cut although I haven’t seen proof.

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## NotSure

jhungary said:


> The Error Probability is *0.3%.*...

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## HRK

Bilal. said:


> You are a liar.





Bilal. said:


> Also your concept of first converts as being degrading also shows how much you are aware of Islam.


He is an Indian and Hindutva follower ....

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498945673051488256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498946209775595524

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## jhungary

NotSure said:


>


Just as you are stupid as with your navitity.

The probability is calculated based on the target size, the range, and the miss. basically it is Target Size x Distant missed/Distant of Target. This is to calculated the gunnery accuracy. 

LOL......please do say more.


----------



## alimobin memon

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498934045677342724
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498937812636340224


Great example that russians aren't hurting civilians. IF they did you know how many casualities could have been.

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## Daylamite Warrior

Lehrasap said:


> Your claims will not gain any weight till the time you don't come to debate me one to one along with your proof.


Typical western hypocrisy, demands evidence when he himself has not shown anything! My claims have enough weight with academics and intelligent people...I dont care if you accept my facts or not as you dont fall in either category, so wont lose a wink of sleep. Off you go, now.

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## lightning F57

Lehrasap said:


> Sadly, you are brainwashed about the cruelties of your religion against the slaves. Women were indeed raped (and much worse than Christianity or Judaism). And the male prisoners were indeed slaughtered (like ISIS does today). All this happened on the level of genocide. And all the small children were also enslaved for the whole of their lives. And even the coming generations of those slaves were automatically born as slaves too due to the evil of "slavery by birth" in your religion.
> 
> I am not going to start a religious debate here, but you should come out of your religious propaganda.
> 
> Credit goes only to the Western humanist movement which started in 15th century after breaking the powers of Chruch, which first ended the slavery and all those cruelties. No religion, no Islam, no Christianity, no Judaism could come even close to the blessing of this humanist movement.
> 
> 
> 
> It is only due to the opposition and protest of this left-wing movement in the West, which controlled the Israelis not to kick out the remaining Palestinians and occupy the whole land. Otherwise, just as Putin kicked out all the Ukrainians from Crimea, and declared it a part of Russia, same fate would have happened to Palestinians too.
> Sadly, you are not going to do justice, and still keep on blaming this humanitarian movement to be responsible for all the crimes of the past.
> 
> 
> 
> Either you realize it or not, but you are indeed putting a knife in the back of this humanist movement with this behavior.
> The final results of this behavior will come only in form of right-wing parties getting popularity in the West, and Trump ideology winning all over.


Your talking complete rubbish you dont know islamic history that is clear. Il leave it to that.

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## lightning F57

Lehrasap said:


> Do you really want to start a religious debate here by making such false claims?
> -----


This thread is not about a religious topic. What is clear is you havnt a clue. What you are posting is a bunch of lies from islamophobic websites which has been refuted to death. Not wasting time trying to educate you. Keep your blinkers on.

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## HRK

Windjammer said:


> Where is the self proclaimed micropower... India.!!!
> View attachment 820040


oh bhai It is not that we are supporting anyone ....

I don't know who made this infographic but inclusion of our name with countries supporting Russia is wrong .... we are neutral in this dog fight ....

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## OldTwilight

Windjammer said:


> Where is the self proclaimed micropower... India.!!!
> View attachment 820040


Actually Iran didn't support Russia and we are neutral .... 
We don't like west , but that doesn't mean we support Russians ....


----------



## Enigma SIG

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/t4mc2e

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## TheNoob

Windjammer said:


> Where is the self proclaimed micropower... India.!!!
> View attachment 820040



Whoever made this is out of touch with whats happening

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## srshkmr

Windjammer said:


> Where is the self proclaimed micropower... India.!!!
> View attachment 820040


Neutral same as Pakistan. Unless you don’t know your government position


----------



## arjunk

Windjammer said:


> Where is the self proclaimed micropower... India.!!!
> View attachment 820040


Pakistan and Turkey are neutral.


----------



## xuxu1457

Windjammer said:


> Where is the self proclaimed micropower... India.!!!
> View attachment 820040


China, India, the United Arab Emirates all abstained from voting. Why only put China at countries that support Russian military action? 
China supports Ukraine's sovereignty, but China opposes NATO's eastward expansion.

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## 8888888888888

I heard Russian paratroopers just storm a military hospital ?


----------



## Muhammed45

Enigma SIG said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/t4mc2e


The warhead exploded before touching the ground. 

I think we all know what happened there.

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## Enigma SIG

Muhammed45 said:


> The warhead exploded before touching the ground.
> 
> I think we all know what happened there.


FOAB?


----------



## Titanium100

Windjammer said:


> Where is the self proclaimed micropower... India.!!!
> View attachment 820040



Pakistan is neutral

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## TopGun786

Muhammed45 said:


> The warhead exploded before touching the ground.
> 
> I think we all know what happened there.


So what happened? Can you explain ?


----------



## Muhammed45

Muhammed45 said:


> The warhead exploded before touching the ground.
> 
> I think we all know what happened there.





TopGun786 said:


> So what happened? Can you explain ?


I maybe wrong but man, that was a chain reaction. Oh boy

@QWECXZ What say you bro?


----------



## That Guy

jhungary said:


> I actually don't think the Chinese is stupid enough to do that
> 
> Free Gas, Oil, Wheat for loan, maybe, propping up the ENTIRE Russian economy? Especially with what happening to Ukraine and most likely asked to rebuild? That's a 1.4 Trillions dollar (as of 2022) size Blackhole that just going to suck money in without any return. Probably not
> 
> Many people here forget China is basically a big businessman, which mean unless there are advantage or money to be had, there are going to be no help, and Russia and China are no where near the level of alliance between US and UK. I would consider Russia to be lucky if China did not recover the disputed land from Russia after this...


I agree, which is why they'll 100% look to turn Russia into a junior position below them. They'll offer loans, and force Russia to concede on vital interests in Central Asia.

They won't pump enough money into Russia to make it grow, only to make sure it doesn't completely economically collapse. Basically, the Chinese will stop the bleeding by using predatory solutions to keep the Russians permanently in a position thats below China.



Madni Bappa said:


> Russians doing a great job man


Lol. A 2 day job turned into a week, with no realistic timetable on completion of major objectives.

The Russians are doing a fantastic jobs (at showing the world their incompetence).

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## Bengal71

Darius77 said:


> Like I explained earlier, that is what the Russians have done, fired 5 generals who were appointed on political connections. Now Putin and Shoigu are running the war with *Lieutenant-General Valeriy Yevgenyevich Yevtukhovich, Commander Airborne Troops who are now playing a major role. *



Where is this news that they fired 5 generals?


----------



## Titanium100

Looks they will also invade Moldova in this initial invasion
Russia’s secret plot to invade second nation leaked​

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## maverick1977

Enigma SIG said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/t4mc2e




what was that, looked like a nuke ?


----------



## TheNoob

maverick1977 said:


> what was that, looked like a nuke ?



Ammo Dump went boom.

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## dBSPL

Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Turkey:

"If the war will not be stopped, we have made efforts for a humanitarian ceasefire of at least 24 hours, and we are still making efforts. We had initiatives before the two countries and the international community. We had contacts with the UN and OSCE Secretary General."

"Turkey does not have to take sides. Of course it's a NATO member. A country that complies with and contributes to NATO's decisions. Turkey displays a principled stance. Despite the differences of opinion, we are the country that has developed cooperation with both countries. When there is war we don't have to take sides; on the contrary, we are the country that can establish an equal dialogue with both sides in ending the war. But If something is wrong, we have to say it. There is a humanitarian crisis in Ukraine right now."

"We were co-presenters in the draft resolution that went to the UN Security Council. Likewise, an emergency special session began at the UN General Assembly. On March 2, Russia's Ukraine issue will be discussed. Here, too, we were in the group that wrote the draft resolution."

"*Why did we abstain from the resolution on February 25?* In that decision, Russia's right of representation is terminated. Is there any attempt to suspend or completely abolish Russia's right of representation in that organization? Yes. We talked about so much dialogue and negotiation. After all, the expulsion of Russia from here means that Russian citizens cannot go to the ECHR. What good will it do when you cut ties from here? The second option is to initiate the joint complementary process. Initiation of intensive and effective dialogue. Unfortunately, this option was not selected."

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## Hassan Al-Somal

This is crazy. What is the military value of attacking a police station? Are Russians carrying out scotch earth campaign on bringing every Ukrainian infrastructure to the ground?




dBSPL said:


> National Police building in Kharkiv
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498917644141006849
> Current situation according to Russian information sources:

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## TheNoob

Titanium100 said:


> Looks they will also invade Moldova in this initial invasion
> Russia’s secret plot to invade second nation leaked​



This could very well be a ploy to turn false attention elsewhere. 
Which is typical for war.


----------



## Enigma SIG

That Guy said:


> Lol. A 2 day job turned into a week, *with no realistic timetable* on completion of major objectives.
> 
> The Russians are doing a fantastic jobs (at showing the world their incompetence).









Where's the bloody invasion timetable when you need one?
Maybe the Russian's are using Primavera for this invasion which is why it is such a mess.
Maybe we should ask them to use Trello or Asana and make the thing public so everybody knows what the OKR's and the Timetable is.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498952059558797312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498954387254874115

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498955188811583492

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498946830373199874

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498948286383804417

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498943189138685952


----------



## Titanium100

Ukraine made a song for TB2

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/RussiaUkraineWar2022/comments/t4ifn2

Reactions: Love Love:
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## dBSPL

The Turkish Grand National Assembly will hold a closed session today with the Ukraine agenda. In the session, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Ministry of Defense will inform the deputies. It is expected that the 'confidentiality' decision will be taken by majority vote before the session.

The West is putting great pressure on Turkey. The opposition criticizes the government's decision in the European Parliament's Russia decision vote. Turkey may have difficulty in carrying out the process without being caught in this turbulence.

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## Windjammer

HRK said:


> oh bhai It is not that we are supporting anyone ....
> 
> I don't know who made this infographic but inclusion of our name with countries supporting Russia is wrong .... we are neutral in this dog fight ....





xuxu1457 said:


> China, India, the United Arab Emirates all abstained from voting. Why only put China at countries that support Russian military action?
> China supports Ukraine's sovereignty, but China opposes NATO's eastward expansion.





arjunk said:


> Pakistan and Turkey are neutral.





srshkmr said:


> Neutral same as Pakistan. Unless you don’t know your government position





TheNoob said:


> Whoever made this is out of touch with whats happening


Sorry guys, have deleted that false info post.

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## xuxu1457

This time, Russia's method is too rough, and it should be more subtle.
Russia wants to prevent NATO from expanding to its doorstep and to organize Ukraine's offensive in the east.
Russia should continue to expose Ukraine's 15000 civilian deaths in the east over the past eight years, and should expose Ukraine's Massacres of villages by the Azov Battalion. should strongly oppose the adoption of the Ukrainian Language Act by Ukraine, which bans Russian from appearing in government, media, television, and schools. 

Rather than direct military action, when the US army attacked Iraq, it was the media, NGOs, and others who created the issue of Iraq's possession of weapons of mass destruction that led to the military action.

It may have something to do with the national character. Even if the United States does bad things, it will first stand on the moral high ground to make a reason. Russia does not like to explain when it can do it.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498956763781304320

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498940319211130881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498956853128175619

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498913583685840896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498900283010822147


----------



## dBSPL

Titanium100 said:


> Ukraine made a song for TB2
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/RussiaUkraineWar2022/comments/t4ifn2


These are attempts to openly manipulate Turkey's position. In the last 5-6 days, there has been an intense effort from Ukraine to influence Turkish public opinion.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498959342866890756

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498945600754274304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498959856878956544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498959821604855810

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498959952832040961


----------



## Darius77

Muhammed45 said:


> The warhead exploded before touching the ground.
> 
> I think we all know what happened there.


That was the Ukrainian army's largest underground ammo and weapons depot, built during the WW2 after the Nazi defeat at Kharkov and was expanded during the post war era. It was taken out by a Russian precision missile strike. _Russian_ military _analyst_ known for his publications about _Russia's_ political and military leadership was just on TV and he is no friend of Putin, but acknowledged that the Russian army is doing quite well and slowly grinding down the Ukrainian resistance. In the South Russia has total control of all sea ports and Ukraine is now land locked and has very little hope. This ammo dump explosion destroyed 60% of their munitions. Mariupol has also fallen to Russian paratroopers commanded by Colonel General *Andrey Nikolaevich Serdyukov.*

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## Bengal71

Lehrasap said:


> Do you really want to start a religious debate here by making such false claims?
> 
> And what household?
> This household in which a captive lady is raped by the owner, and once fulfilling her sexual lust in a Temporary Sexual Relationship (like Shia Muta), he was allowed to sell the captive lady to another owner, who again raped her and sold her to the 3rd owner for raping her .... ?
> 
> Jews and Christians were also notorious for slavery, but at least they had to marry the captive women in order to have sex with her, and after the marriage, she became like a regular wife, and could not be sold further after the temporary sexual Muta type relationship.
> 
> The credit of freeing humanity from slavery goes neither to Islam, nor to any other religion, but only and only to the modern humanist movement of the West.



This is true.

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## Enigma SIG

Toughest sanctions yet. I bet Russia will go nuclear because of this.

/funnynotreal

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## Wergeland 2.0

Lehrasap said:


> It is only due to the opposition and protest of this left-wing movement in the West, which controlled the Israelis not to kick out the remaining Palestinians and occupy the whole land. Otherwise, just as Putin kicked out all the Ukrainians from Crimea, and declared it a part of Russia, same fate would have happened to Palestinians too.
> Sadly, you are not going to do justice, and still keep on blaming this humanitarian movement to be responsible for all the crimes of the past.



I think youre giving western humanist movement more credit than its due. Much of the reason why left leaning thoughts intergrateted into the society, whas actually effects of policitical and geopolitical neccesseties and interactions. Forexample tte revolution of the 1960s with its flower power and anti-segregation movements was actually a geopolitical driven societal shift in the west. As the Soviet Union official ideology was a left leaning anti-colonial, anti-racists and anti-traditional, thus it had magnetic influence on all non-white people on the planet, because until recently the west was a extremely racists Society. There are of course other factor too like affluence and so on.

There were «humanist» philosophers in Europe from 16th century and onwards but the society at large was still illiberal and feudal well into the french revolution and beyond. Jews werent allowed to live in my country Norway before the early 20th century.

Although slavery in traditional Islam and Modern Western society does not have same cannotations, to me its still one of the more challenging aspects of Islam. Islam seem to simply encourage abolishment of slavery but not outright ban it. The answer i believe has to do with Islam largely being a pragmatic oriented ideology; if i am interpreting this correctly (My faults are only my own and if iam right that is only by help of God), Islam seem to take a realpolitik stand and says that if you can abolish slavery then that is what pleases God the most. BUT IF there is already a system of slavery that is too strong to get rid of immidiately, then you should at minimum treat slaves this and this way; not harm them, feed them, treat the as your own damily members and so on.


----------



## retaxis

Lets talk nuclear war as it is a possibility. What is protocal to nuclear war? Tactical nukes to take out divisions/batalions first? Or straight to the city killers?


----------



## Enigma SIG

Oil rockets to $113, gas hits record on Ukraine conflict


LONDON: Oil prices soared Wednesday above $113 per barrel and natural gas spiked to a record peak, as investors...



www.brecorder.com





Middle Eastern dictators drowning in money. They'll probably want a protracted World War by now.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Foinikas

Indeed,this is what seperates the West from Russia. And this is one of the reasons they want to destroy Russia. 

Because Russia doesn't support their bullshit

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## Muhammed45

Darius77 said:


> That was the Ukrainian army's largest underground ammo and weapons depot, built during the WW2 after the Nazi defeat at Kharkov and was expanded during the post war era. It was taken out by a Russian precision missile strike. _Russian_ military _analyst_ known for his publications about _Russia's_ political and military leadership was just on TV and he is no friend of Putin, but acknowledged that the Russian army is doing quite well and slowly grinding down the Ukrainian resistance. In the South Russia has total control of all sea ports and Ukraine is now land locked and has very little hope. This ammo dump explosion destroyed 60% of their munitions. Mariupol has also fallen to Russian paratroopers commanded by Colonel General *Andrey Nikolaevich Serdyukov.*


Thanks sir, 

More than glad to prove me wrong. But i still have my doubt left in my mind. Hope its not what i thought


----------



## beijingwalker

9 min ago
China Won’t Take Part in Western Financial Sanctions on Russia: Bank Regulator Chief​
China opposed unilateral financial sanctions and won’t participate in such sanctions imposed by Western nations on Russia, Guo Shuqing, the head of China’s banking and insurance regulator, said Wednesday.

In the latest sanctions on Russia's invasion into Ukraine, Western allies decided Tuesday to cut off several Russian banks from Swift global financial messaging system.

“We will not participate in such sanctions, and we will continue to maintain normal economic, trade and financial exchanges with relevant parties,” said Mr. Guo in a briefing.
Unilateral financial sanctions normally don’t show a good effect and lack a legal basis, he said in response to a question in the briefing.

Given close ties between Beijing and Moscow, analysts believe China could provide an alternative by offering to use its own fledgling rival to Swift, called the Cross-Border Interbank Payment System, though the Chinese network has much limited reach.

Regarding the impact of such sanctions on China's economy and financial system, he said that “it is not too obvious now and needs to be observed,” but impact should be limited given the resilience of the Chinese economy.









China Won’t Take Part in Western Financial Sanctions on Russia: Bank Regulator Chief


China opposed unilateral financial sanctions and won’t participate in such sanctions imposed by Western nations on Russia, Guo Shuqing, the head of China’s banking and insurance regulator, said Wednesday. In the latest sanctions on Russia's invasion into Ukraine, Western allies decided Tuesday to c




www.wsj.com

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## dBSPL

- Allahu Akbar!
- Hey man, you're an ukrainian slavian, why are you shouting Allahu Akbar?
- It shoots better that way.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498945417857404930(another psyop product)

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498952199468113925

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498962116228886529

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498960546317672451

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## Wergeland 2.0

dBSPL said:


> Airbus has stopped supplying spare parts to Russian aircraft. It will not be maintained anymore. They ended all operations in Russia.
> 
> France and the EU continue to expand the scope of economic sanctions against Russia.



Stupid Airbus. This will open up the market for COMAC and other future aircraft producers.

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## PaklovesTurkiye

*NUKES ??? !!!!*



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498962679343505409


----------



## Titanium100

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/RussiaUkraineWar2022/comments/t4uhze

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Lehrasap

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> I think youre giving western humanist movement more credit than its due. Much of the reason why left leaning thoughts intergrateted into the society, whas actually effects of policitical and geopolitical neccesseties and interactions. Forexample tte revolution of the 1960s with its flower power and anti-segregation movements was actually a geopolitical driven societal shift in the west. As the Soviet Union official ideology was a left leaning anti-colonial, anti-racists and anti-traditional, and there had magnetic influence on all non-white people on the planet, because until then the west was a extremely racists society. There are of course other factor too like affluence and so on.
> 
> There were «humanist» philosophers in Europe from 16th century and onwards but the society at large was still illiberal and feudal well into the french revolution and beyond. Jews werent allowed to live in my country Norway before the early 20th century.
> 
> Although slavery in traditional Islam and Modern Western society does not have same cannotations, to me its still one of the more challenging aspects of Islam. Islam seem to simply encourage abolishment of slavery but not outright ban it. The answer i believe has to do with Islam largely being a pragmatic oriented ideology; if i am interpreting this correctly (My faults are only my own and if iam right that is only by help of God), Islam seem to take a realpolitik stand and says that if you can abolish slavery then that is what pleases God the most. BUT IF there is already a system of slavery that is too strong to get rid of immidiately, then you should at minimum treat slaves this and this way; not harm them, feed them, treat the as your own damily members and so on.



I already told you I cannot start a religious debate upon slavery on this forum. 

As far as the abolition of slavery is concerned, then at no point in the 1400 years of history of Islam it came anywhere near to abolition. But the numbers of slaves only increased under the Islamic rule, right from the beginning.

Here is the complete TIMELINE of abolition of Slavery. There were almost 200 notable movements against slavery in human history, but NOT even a SINGLE of them came from Islam and its followers. 









Timeline of abolition of slavery and serfdom - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## Ali_Baba

dBSPL said:


> Airbus has stopped supplying spare parts to Russian aircraft. It will not be maintained anymore. They ended all operations in Russia.
> 
> France and the EU continue to expand the scope of economic sanctions against Russia.



Well - lol - Putin wanted to recreate the old Soviet union - that i guess includes the Queues, unsafe Tupolev airlines ...

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## Enigma SIG

Titanium100 said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/RussiaUkraineWar2022/comments/t4uhze


CIA Productions ™



Ali_Baba said:


> Well - lol - Putin wanted to recreate the old Soviet union - that i guess includes the Queues, unsafe Tupolev airlines ...

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498960326854905861

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498935641370939392


----------



## Darius77

Muhammed45 said:


> Thanks sir,
> 
> More than glad to prove me wrong. But i still have my doubt left in my mind. Hope its not what i thought


I know what you meant, Russia has not deployed 5-10 KT tactical nuclear battlefield artillery or SSM warheads yet. They are in case of a NATO attack, which is very doubtful. This explosive force as recorded by seismograph was more than double the explosion set off at Beirut Port. The after shock from Kharkov was felt all the way to Dnipro.

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## Titanium100

dBSPL said:


> - Allahu Akbar!
> - Hey man, you're an ukrainian slavian, why are you shouting Allahu Akbar?
> - It shoots better that way.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498945417857404930(another psyop product)



Ukrainians are very funny and humorous people.. All the videos I have seen of Ukrainians really opened my eyes as to how funny Ukrainians really are... I had no exposure of them before this conflict


----------



## dBSPL

Enigma SIG said:


> CIA Productions ™
> 
> 
> View attachment 820054


There's no need to deny it. Both sides are waging an intense propaganda war.


----------



## Enigma SIG

dBSPL said:


> There's no need to deny it. Both sides are waging an intense propaganda war.


Just stating the obvious. Also not taking sides here. Just enjoying the schadenfreude because of this:

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498924304959954951

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## dBSPL

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> *NUKES ??? !!!!*
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498962679343505409


I am deeply disappointed about Lavrov. I guessed that his talent was much higher. It's not just about this last statement, but I have the idea that for the last few months, the Russian political mind has stopped playing the game by its own rules and pulled into the environment and discourse the enemy wants.

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## unrequitted_love_suzy

Spoiler Alert :
Russia will win
with casualties of course
sorry to disappoint

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498762279466246146

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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497492892826304516

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## dBSPL

Enigma SIG said:


> Just stating the obvious. Also not taking sides here. Just enjoying the schadenfreude because of this:
> 
> View attachment 820055


If you widen your sample range, you should also put a few Russians in the meme you are using. Other than that, I agree with you. Taking sides in this war is completely pointless. Countries like Pakistan and Turkey, should look at the issue only from within their own interests.

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## Enigma SIG

dBSPL said:


> If you widen your sample range, you should also put a few Russians in the meme you are using. Other than that, I agree with you. Taking sides in this war is completely pointless. Countries like Pakistan and Turkey, should look at the issue only from within their own interests.


Just using as is from various sources, can't be bothered to edit 

Here's another one:

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498952824578785282

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498968672462942215

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498968208174460930

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498969267647168514


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## Darius77

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498924304959954951


Russia is choking Kiev before an assault which will come in a few days or weeks. There is food shortage now a break down of even savagery as there criminal gangs armed the government operating, many cases of rapes and murders and empty shelves. The paranoid Ukrainian ill trained thugs are looking for "Russian spies" and shooting anyone, A Jew was shot mistaken for a Chechen because of the beard.

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## dBSPL

Enigma SIG said:


> Just using as is from various sources, can't be bothered to edit
> 
> Here's another one:
> 
> View attachment 820057


Russia's scorecard is not that weak. What purpose does it serve to fill this place with memes?


----------



## Titanium100

dBSPL said:


> I am deeply disappointed about Lavrov. I guessed that his talent was much higher. It's not just about this last statement, but I have the idea that for the last few months, the Russian political mind has stopped playing the game by its own rules and pulled into the environment and discourse the enemy wants.



I seem to understand both sides just fine.. Example you can't enter into the cave of an Animal and assume it will not defend itself with whatever it has.. Hence Lavrov is that Animal just warning others to not enter his cave

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## Enigma SIG

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/t4djty

Tower stood after getting directly hit by God knows what sort of munition. Give the structural engineer a cookie!



dBSPL said:


> Russia's scorecard is not that weak. What purpose does it serve to fill this place with memes?


Showcasing the West's hypocrisy and blatantly criminal lies.

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## FuturePAF

dBSPL said:


> Transnistria War - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Transnistria - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was first... Ukraine is the third country occupied by Russia in the Black Sea.
> 
> A unilateral declaration of independence has already been made long before, under the protection of Russian soldiers. Even with regard to the Ukrainian war, it was said that the Russian troops in this region would support the Ukranian occupation. One of Russia's strategic goals is to get Transnistria out of the enclaved situation, either by subjugating Ukraine completely or dividing it on a north/south axis.


But do you think they will try to take the whole of Moldova or just link up with transnistria


----------



## Wergeland 2.0

Lehrasap said:


> I already told you I cannot start a religious debate upon slavery on this forum.
> 
> As far as the abolition of slavery is concerned, then at no point in the 1400 years of history of Islam it came anywhere near to abolition. But the numbers of slaves only increased under the Islamic rule, right from the beginning.
> 
> Here is the complete TIMELINE of abolition of Slavery. There were almost 200 notable movements against slavery in human history, but NOT even a SINGLE of them came from Islam and its followers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Timeline of abolition of slavery and serfdom - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



I do not neccesary disagree with you, but not completeley agree with you either.

But i still, to my great fustration, often find these type of conversations futile because there are many factors to consider before one discuss the topic, and these are:

- Angle of perception
- Axioms
- Civilizational modus and priorities
- Nature of truth
- Nature of reality

By far the biggest challenge is that the modern western world is a atomized society while Islam and eastern civilizations are holistic. The recent burst of promenon and genderfluidity is precisely the product of atomization. It is also the reason why the west fails to penetrate islamic societies with its ideas. In many ways the western civilization is the youngest of all world civilizations and therefore its philosphies are also young and energetic but in a bigger picture its also foolish.

The western world is so dominant that its axioms are taken as default and universal, often even by well educated people, maybe even more so.


----------



## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498773630112653322

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## Darius77

Enigma SIG said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/t4djty
> 
> Tower stood after getting directly hit by God knows what sort of munition. Give the structural engineer a cookie!
> 
> 
> Showcasing the West's hypocrisy and blatantly criminal lies.


They were using fragment munitions not HEAT so the structure stood. Perhaps the intention is not to destroy the infrastructure as Russia will have to rebuild the place. They are mostly focusing on strategic military targets. I have have a feeling the Kiev internet is about to go down next.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498970067748409344

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## The SC

The United States and its allies have agreed to free up 60 million barrels of their reserves, the White House and the International Energy Agency announced Tuesday; Leaders are seeking to mitigate the impact of the Russian invasion of Ukraine on fuel prices, according to CNN Arabic.


----------



## jamal18

kingQamaR said:


> Who the hell wants to live behind an iron curtain with Putin and Belarus nutjob having total power.Raving lunatics the both of them.
> 
> Stop making stuff up would you want your country to be invaded and annexed
> 
> Jeez


I suggest you read my post. It is simply a technical statement on putting civilians in danger.


----------



## PakAlp

Latest map 02/03/2022 source Wikipedia. 
Looks like Russia will take all the blue area, East Ukraine and West Ukraine will be landlocked country.

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## mingle

waz said:


> The Russians are levelling the place, Ukrainian forces have taken massive casualties. I don’t see this continuing much longer. There’s talk of gas and water lines being cut although I haven’t seen proof.


Russia using WW2 tactics encircle then runover west was guessing German Style blitz from Russia


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## PakAlp

FuturePAF said:


> But do you think they will try to take the whole of Moldova or just link up with transnistria



Russia has close relations with Moldova so I don't see any reason they will threaten it. All propaganda by the west media.

Transnistria will link with the new East Ukraine

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## _Nabil_

jamahir said:


> What a shameless appeal to the Hindutvadis !


They are begging everyone and everywhere, imagine looking for support from tiny Tunisia 😁









TUNISIA : Angered by Kais Saied's silence over Ukraine, EU commissioner Oliver Varhelyi cancels Tunis visit - 01/03/2022 - Africa Intelligence


Angered by Kais Saied's silence over Ukraine, EU commissioner Oliver Varhelyi has cancelled his trip to Tunis planned between 1 and 3 March. - 3/1/2022




www.africaintelligence.com






Tunisia-Marcus Cornaro criticizes Tunisia’s stance on Russian invasion of Ukraine
By Rim Hana on Mar 01, 2022

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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498669434558455810

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498967536779632643

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## jamal18

Titanium100 said:


> I seem to understand both sides just fine.. Example you can't enter into the cave of an Animal and assume it will not defend itself with whatever it has.. Hence Lavrov is that Animal just warning others to not enter his cave


Simple explanation, not understood by many on this forum.


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## mingle

PakAlp said:


> Latest map 02/03/2022 source Wikipedia.
> Looks like Russia will take all the blue area, East Ukraine and West Ukraine will be landlocked country.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 820061


Dneiper river would be next border between Russia and Ukrain

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## retaxis

East Ukraine will be buffer state. Kiev will be bargaining chip. Things be back to normal in a couple of weeks

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## Wergeland 2.0

mingle said:


> Russia using WW2 tactics encircle then runover west was guessing German Style blitz from Russia



What Russia is doing in Ukraine is nothing but staggering. Not only militarily but also geopolitically. Russia effectively is challenging and beating the post-Cold War Euro-American world order.

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## Inception-06

Russia should ask for DMZ, they have nothing to lose, they have lost already and will be loosing more.

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## dBSPL

FuturePAF said:


> But do you think they will try to take the whole of Moldova or just link up with transnistria


The Prinistrovian Republic (Transnistria) is not officially recognized by Russia, but recognized by another legitimacy-problematic states, created by Russia (Abazia, Ossetia, etc.). This tells us that Russia also does not consider these lands as part of Moldova. There are already Russian soldiers stationed in this region and protecting the region from any intervention. Judging by the Russian sources, it is seen that the Russian soldiers in this region actively supported the Ukrainian operation.

My guess was an south focused invasion incl Odessa, followed by a rapid unilateral move for independence. Thus, Transnistria would be physically reach to mother Russia and I thought that Russia would not need confront Moldova directly, since there was already a de facto situation and 30 years of extinguished fire

However, as far as I can understand, Russia trying to invade whole Ukraine with its own army, create a puppet government and create a great Russia (Russia, Belarus, Ukraine), unlike the Georgian operation. In this case, our old predictions no longer matter.

In a political climate where the parties are already threatening each other with nuclear power, the issue of Moldova remains as insignificant and petty as the grass trampled under the elephants. Big ox in the barn is, err, Ukraine. Whoever gets it will become the owner of the farm.

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## Titanium100

PakAlp said:


> Latest map 02/03/2022 source Wikipedia.
> Looks like Russia will take all the blue area, East Ukraine and West Ukraine will be landlocked country.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 820061



A Peacekeeping force needs to be put on the western part of Ukraine to salvage Zelenskyy because NATO or the World shouldn't allow a 100% defeat on him. Meaning we need to conduct an intervention safe the western part of Ukraine after Russia has taken all the blue and put troops on the ground. Let EU and NATO invest in Ukraine again dumping alot of money on them then make a round 2... 20-30 years down the round but in order to do that Ukraine has to become a protectorate meaning signing defense treaty with UK or someone else who can militarily get there and is powerful enough to yard off a further Russian invasion into the western portion of Ukraine..

Move capital to Lviv in this new Western Ukraine country that will emerge from this..

You can safe Western Ukraine with either UK or someone else with Nuclear deterence making defense treaty with Western Ukraine without them joining NATO in order to block further Russian incursions and force status quo


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## LeGenD

Corax said:


> Fascinating reading this thread.
> 
> If this isn't a demonstration of the slow death of the Western world, I don't know what is. While Putin's Russia has the West scrambling around for a response, and potentially escalating the conflict to the rest of Europe, China must be thinking about the potential opportunities to pick up the pieces and vacuum left behind. Let the West fight amongst themselves and with Russia, while it galvanises its position and emerges as the new global power, rather like how the US emerged from the ashes of WWII.
> 
> Apart from the blatant hypocrisy on show by the West, it demonstrates to all their partner nations that they cannot be trusted. Time and time again they have shown throughout the World they are more than willing to fuel the fires of conflict when it suites them, and use nations to achieve their means.
> 
> This is a massive realignment of global strategic tectonic plates, with the World increasingly split again between the 'West', and a new 'Eastern block' comprising Russia, China, Turkey, Pakistan, and perhaps many more to come. A very interesting time in history to be living in, I must say.
> 
> Gotta love those Ruskies for throwing a spanner in the works!


My assessment is that Vladimir Putin have rejuvenated European identity and NATO with his miscalculation in Ukraine. More on this in following post:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Does someone know where Mexico stands on this conflict? Has Mexico put sanctions on Russia as well?



defence.pk







Arbiter said:


> Fair? This is the kind of mindset I hate. If something is bad then it needs to be called out. And if something is worse then it needs to be called out even more. No ifs and buts. Scale matters. Intensity matters.
> 
> Tell me another country that have dropped nuclear bomb on a civilian population. USA is the only country to do it, not once but twice. There is no comparison.
> 
> This is the country that dropped more bombs on Laos than it did during entire ww2. Even today unexploded bombs are being found in Laos. People are still dying today because of that. Invaded Iraq on false pretences. Sanctioned international court judges and their family when they simply expressed desire to investigate it's war crimes. This is the country that destroyed many middle East countries, leading to migration crisis that led to rise of anti immigration and far right in Europe. And what about the many and many government overthrows. Even in countries where people have genuine concern and genuine reasons for political change, this country hijacks those movement for its own benefits. Where do I even stop.
> 
> But somehow I am not being fair in my criticism? The fact that I choose to call out atrocities of USA more, because they are worse, is somehow not being fair in my criticism. Bruh you are the one not being fair in your criticism.



I totally agree with you on the part that if something is bad then it needs to be called out.

My take is in following post:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Does someone know where Mexico stands on this conflict? Has Mexico put sanctions on Russia as well?



defence.pk





I am not telling you (or any member) to dislike Russia. I am all for PAK - Russia relations.

My contention is that PDF communists tend to bash USA and the WEST a lot but make excuses for Russia. This is hypocrisy.

Let us also consider what (humanitarian) USSR was up to:

USSR invaded Hungary (1956), intervened in Czechoslovakia (1968–1989), and invaded Afghanistan (1979 - 1989).

Soviet invasion of Afghanistan had significant cascading effects which haunted Pakistan in times of the War On Terror as well. General Tariq Khan (retired) summed up these effects nicely in one his articles.

You DO NOT realize to what extent USSR corrupted and damaged Pan-Islamic identity in times of the Cold War. USSR also supported creation of Israel. USSR instigated conflicts in the Middle East as well. There is much academic literature and declassified accounts which expand on this theme. This is a topic in itself.

You need to sharpen your searching skills.

Let us also consider what (humanitarian) Russia was up to:

Russia invaded Chechnya *twice* and annexed it.
_First Chechen War (1994 - 1996) 
Second Chechen War (1999 - 2009)_

Russia invaded Georgia in 2008 and annexed parts of its territory.

Russia invaded Ukraine *twice *and attempting to remap it since 2014.

Russia also intervened in Syria to prevent downfall of the brutal and dictatorial Assad regime.

Russia had a rationale for preventing independence of Chechnya - understandable.

But Russian rationale for annexing territory from Georgia and now Ukraine is ridiculous. This is worse than 'regime change' interventions. This is blatant disregard of internationally recognized borders.

Putin administration can also choose to silence its critics everywhere (REPEAT: everywhere).

You asserted that Russians are showing much restraint in Ukraine but I contended that you are wrong. Please check what is happening in Kharkov for instance:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498766081590284294

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498766704448524288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498766783372791818

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498917790845177859
Situation is very bad in Kyiv and its surroundings as well.

As I pointed out to you in my earlier post:

_"Just wait for the war to progress further."_









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Now half of the battle is being fought on PDF.



defence.pk





- - - - -

USA used nuclear weapons in World War 2 - things were different back in the days. USA did not use these weapons in other conflicts, not even in Vietnam.

USA under different Presidencies have done both good and bad things.

Americans helped liberate South Korea (from North Korea) in the 1950s, Kuwait (from Iraq) in 1991, and Kosovo (from Yugoslavia) in 1999. They also helped dismantle Al-Qaeda Network in Af-Pak and ISIL in Middle East in recent years. These were sensible interventions.

Vietnam War (1965 - 1973) was absolutely unnecessary and could be avoided.

Operation Iraqi Freedom (2003 - 2011) could be avoided as well. Saddam Hussein was a crooked man but he wasn't responsible for 9/11. It is true that many Iraqi wanted to get rid of Saddam regime and some Iraqi politicians were in contact with Bush Jr. administration for the needful but the WMD rationale was ridiculous. Iraq had limited stockpiles of chemical weapons at maximum.

What happened in Libya is unfortunate but Muammar Qaddafi is responsible for the mess as well. He had ruled for too long and made too many enemies in the process. Benghazi became the hub of Anti-Qaddafi movement in 2011 but Qaddafi regime's response was to surround and crush Benghazi movement by force instead - Libyan Civil War commenced at this point and NATO decided to intervene in support of Benghazi movement (Operation Odyssey Dawn). This is the problem of dictators - they do not respect common people and have no sense of political dissent. They are so full of themselves.









First Libyan Civil War - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





You need to understand that global affairs are like FIFTY SHADES OF GREY.

My take is very simple: I do not support or condone acts of oppression in any way or form. If a local bully is destroyed by a big bully in this process, so be it. This is called karma.



NotSure said:


> I said so! The facts on the ground will grow exponentially in the next days. Talk is cheap, but ...
> 
> Edit: Longer version:


Now this is the epitome of "pessimistic mentality." Putin administration created a humanitarian crisis in Ukraine to begin with. Putin administration threatened Finland and Sweden as well. The powerful shall be allowed to prey on the weak unabated? This is how the World Order will collapse.

Should Pakistan have assumed that it will be hopeless to resist Soviet forces in Afghanistan?

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## jamal18

PakAlp said:


> Latest map 02/03/2022 source Wikipedia.
> Looks like Russia will take all the blue area, East Ukraine and West Ukraine will be landlocked country.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 820061


No. An aim is the 'de-militarization and de-nazification of the Ukraine'. You have to control the entire country for that to happen. If these aims are achieved, I see no reason for an independent Russian eastern Ukraine. In fact, a Ukraine with a high ethnic Russian component works in Russia's favour.

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## Ali_Baba

PakAlp said:


> Latest map 02/03/2022 source Wikipedia.
> Looks like Russia will take all the blue area, East Ukraine and West Ukraine will be landlocked country.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 820061



They may be able to capture for now ( and that is still debateable right now given the resistence by the UAF and global pressure the Russians are under now and the performance of their military ) - but will they be allowed to hold onto it - that is the question??? Severe sanctions, increasing pressure from ruskies who cannot buy nikes, and iphones will eat away at the Kremlin "narrative" and the inability of russians to participate in life with the west, and a raging ukranian insurgency will be what will liberate that areas in the long run. 

This occupation wont be recognised as legitimate ever in any deal - and Russia will have to ultimately roll it back (imho). The west is determined that this cannot be allowed to stand.

I dont think the Russians have truly realised what they have unleashed here and how it will effect Russia in the long run. 

The west has just drawn a massive line called Ukraine - and they will make the Russians walk back over it.

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## jamahir

_Nabil_ said:


> They are begging everyone and everywhere, imagine looking for support from tiny Tunisia 😁
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TUNISIA : Angered by Kais Saied's silence over Ukraine, EU commissioner Oliver Varhelyi cancels Tunis visit - 01/03/2022 - Africa Intelligence
> 
> 
> Angered by Kais Saied's silence over Ukraine, EU commissioner Oliver Varhelyi has cancelled his trip to Tunis planned between 1 and 3 March. - 3/1/2022
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.africaintelligence.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tunisia-Marcus Cornaro criticizes Tunisia’s stance on Russian invasion of Ukraine
> By Rim Hana on Mar 01, 2022



Yes, they are not just expecting political support but also boots on the ground which Tunisia or India won't provide even given Indian government agencies like the SBI bank agreeing with the sanction conditions of USA, EU and UNO.  

BTW your linked article is paywalled but I got your point. 



Titanium100 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498669434558455810



Nazi terrorists.

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## [TR]AHMET

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> *NUKES ??? !!!!*
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498962679343505409



So please tell us which we dont know lavrov, people doesnt fear from nukes, if you attack someone with nukes they will atack you with nukes, as result all world go into doomsday

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## RescueRanger

Kherson is now under full control of Russian troops with troops patrolling the city centre unchallenged. - CNN

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## jhungary

That Guy said:


> I agree, which is why they'll 100% look to turn Russia into a junior position below them. They'll offer loans, and force Russia to concede on vital interests in Central Asia.
> 
> They won't pump enough money into Russia to make it grow, only to make sure it doesn't completely economically collapse. Basically, the Chinese will stop the bleeding by using predatory solutions to keep the Russians permanently in a position thats below China.
> 
> 
> Lol. A 2 day job turned into a week, with no realistic timetable on completion of major objectives.
> 
> The Russians are doing a fantastic jobs (at showing the world their incompetence).


I am thinking, land grab. Also probably would be taking over the oil rich central Asian country.

You can't ask China to do stuff for you for free. Everything comes with a price.


----------



## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498575535219388418
Lol 😂

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## Titanium100

PakAlp said:


> Latest map 02/03/2022 source Wikipedia.
> Looks like Russia will take all the blue area, East Ukraine and West Ukraine will be landlocked country.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 820061



I agree all the blue will eventually be taken by the Russians after a furious fight thru out Ukraine for months but my issues is that I wanna safe the western portion of Ukraine from further Russian attacks by enforcing status quo for atleast 2 decades and rearming the western portion of Ukraine. Either Uk or Germany will have to first enter via peacekeeping to separate the 2 new states then sign a defense treaty with Ukraine this will keep Russia out from further incursions and let Ukraine rebuild again and let her live to fight another day... Once Russia exceeds a certain limit Germany or UK has to quickly deploy forces into Ukraine and basically once Russia crosses over that blue line an Incursion has to occur from the polish side. Put in 150.000 German forces and then there will be negotiations settle for the western part of Ukraine

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## PakAlp

mingle said:


> Dneiper river would be next border between Russia and Ukrain



From the South they already took alot of land pass the river.

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## RescueRanger

The selective moral hypocrisy of the west:

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## TheNoob

RescueRanger said:


> The selective moral hypocrisy of the west:
> 
> View attachment 820064
> 
> View attachment 820065



That society is a farce. lmao

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498980848615530498


----------



## That Guy

RescueRanger said:


> The selective moral hypocrisy of the west:
> 
> View attachment 820064
> 
> View attachment 820065


It's dailymail, what did you expect?

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## dBSPL

Energodar residents are trying to block the city road.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498951451430854656


----------



## RescueRanger

Meanwhile from Washington:

*Putin may encircle Kiev with tanks, but he'll never gain the hearts and souls of the Iranian people." - Joe Biden





*

Source: 









Joe Biden Mistakenly Calls Ukrainian People 'Iranian' in Address, Video Goes Viral


Putin may circle Kyiv with tanks, but he'll never gain the hearts and souls of the Iranian people, Joe Biden says in the viral video.




www.news18.com





—-
😂



That Guy said:


> It's dailymail, what did you expect?


😂 that’s true to be honest 😂

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## LeGenD

RescueRanger said:


> Meanwhile from Washington:
> 
> *Putin may encircle Kiev with tanks, but he'll never gain the hearts and souls of the Iranian people." - Joe Biden
> 
> View attachment 820066
> *
> 
> Source:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe Biden Mistakenly Calls Ukrainian People 'Iranian' in Address, Video Goes Viral
> 
> 
> Putin may circle Kyiv with tanks, but he'll never gain the hearts and souls of the Iranian people, Joe Biden says in the viral video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.news18.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> —-
> 😂
> 
> 
> 😂 that’s true to be honest 😂


This man should retire - honestly. He is too old for the office.

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## RescueRanger

Kyiv residents use the tram and busses to create roadblocks around the city centre:










LeGenD said:


> This man should retire - honestly. He is too old for the office.


Agree 😂

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## Enigma SIG

RescueRanger said:


> Meanwhile from Washington:
> 
> *Putin may encircle Kiev with tanks, but he'll never gain the hearts and souls of the Iranian people." - Joe Biden*


Nalaiq, na ehal hukmuran. Aj establishment haath utha le to ye hukumat awami samandar ko nahi rok pae gi.

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## That Guy

LeGenD said:


> This man should retire - honestly. He is too old for the office.


To be fair, he has to say this. It's kind of his job.

Still, from how things are going, Russia still isn't anywhere close to taking Kyiv, and Russian control over the few taken cities is gonna definitely be challenged, as Russian forces will need to leave to join other offensives (leaving a vulnerable token force behind). Russia doesn't have enough forces, nor ground support from locals to make an occupation work, not even temporarily...

...and that's Russian's long term problem, even if they win the war. Russia doesn't have the resources or manpower to keep Ukrainian cities under its control.

All of that doesn't even mention Russia's domestic problems.

Either way, this entire situation is pretty much a cluster **** for Putin.

🤣

[Edit] I should mention that the US had this problem in Iraq until the very end. They took the cities and installed their government, but their convoys were still getting constantly targeted, because the US failed to win domestic support (in Patreus's words "hearts and minds"). Keep in mind, the US had significantly more resources, and logistical support than Russian does, or atleast has shown to have used in Ukraine.

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## Dragons

Titanium100 said:


> Once Russia exceeds a certain limit Germany or UK has to quickly deploy forces into Ukraine and basically once Russia crosses over that blue line an Incursion has to occur from the polish side. Put in 150.000 German forces and then there will be negotiations settle for the western part of Ukraine



I agree Germany has to draw a certain redlines because if Russia overruns everything to many refugees will slip into Poland and Germany and I mean in the millions could reach upwards 10m and both countries can't handle it and Poland can't change grund reality it is to weak but Germany could and hence they need to draw a redline and salvage the western portion by deploying 100k+ The Russians by that time have anyways meet their objectives and won't want to bump heads with Germany over that portion..






Germany has to step-up

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## Madni Bappa



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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498984538319597573

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## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498984538319597573


Seriously the Russians have lost so much hardware it’s embarrassing.

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## unrequitted_love_suzy



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## That Guy

Madni Bappa said:


>


Man, this putin worship is hilarious. So many "straight" brown men fantasizing about a 70 year old bald white man, who thinks of them as nothing more than inferior 🐒

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## RescueRanger

That Guy said:


> Man, this putin worship is hilarious. So many "straight" brown men fantasizing about a 70 year old bald white man, who thinks of them as nothing more than inferior 🐒


Well said. 👏

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## thetutle

Elias MC said:


> Which countries have not imposed sanctions against Russia?
> 
> 🔹 Moscow partners in the BRICS group (Brazil, India, China, South Africa).
> 
> 🔹 CSTO Countries: Belarus, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Armenia, Kyrgyzstan.
> 
> 🔹Azerbaijan and Moldova abandoned anti-Russian restrictions. But the most unexpected was the position of Georgia.
> 🔹 Latin America (Argentina, Venezuela, Guatemala, Colombia, Cuba, Nicaragua, Chile).
> 
> 🔹In the Middle East: Syria, Egypt, Turkey.
> 
> 🔹 There are two non-EU Balkan countries in Europe: Serbia and Bosnia and Herzegovina. Hungary took an ambivalent position.



Bosnia will not agree on Russia sancitons because the serbs in Bosnia have a veto over such decisions. 

But, very big but, any policy adopted by all EU states becomes Bosnias Foreign policy automatically by law. So we will be imposing sanctions on Russia at some point. 

Unfortunately, Russia buys $130 million worth of Pharma products from us. And we buy from them crude oil and gas. 

Its not ideal that we lose 130 million of exports especially in the Pharma sector, because who else will buy our pharmaceutical products? I can't even believe Russians would buy so much from us because you really need to trust someone to use their medicine. 

So that will be jobs losses right there if they retaliate with sanctions. But Its probably worth it to stop their behaviour. 

Also Russian Sberbank is destroyed in all Blakan countries. They have closed or been bought by local banks. So my relatives get to keep their savings. I can not believe someone would put their money in a Russian bank. Thats just crazy. When you gave Austrian banks, Italian banks, Local banks and even a Dubai bank.

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## RescueRanger

The prospect of more Russian cyberattacks seems increasingly likely.​








The prospect of more Russian cyberattacks seems increasingly likely. What can you do to protect yourself? Quite a lot, it turns out.


The hacker collective Anonymous said it was stepping up cyberattacks on Russia. Experts say U.S. consumers should also be on alert.




www.marketwatch.com


----------



## unrequitted_love_suzy

UAE gets more than it bargained for with war in Ukraine​








UAE gets more than it bargained for with war in Ukraine


Caught between Russian and American pressure, the new member of the UN Security Council carefully hedges statements to avoid angering a country crucial to its economy




www.timesofisrael.com

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## LeGenD

Madni Bappa said:


> Damn calm down bro. Just don't get how you buy S400 Erdoğan has goodie goodie chats ice cream and outings with Putin
> 
> Then all of a sudden you're all for Ukraine and TB2s etc.
> 
> So confused.


Turkish government and a Turkish national posting on PDF are two different things. Any Turkish national can have different perspective. I hope this clears the confusion.

@dBSPL

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## RescueRanger

It would appear that there is some discord and infighting among factions inside anonymous:


----------



## Madni Bappa

[TR]AHMET said:


> So please tell us which we dont know lavrov, people doesnt fear from nukes, if you attack someone with nukes they will atack you with nukes, as result all world go into doomsday


Ahmet abi naber?

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## Chak Bamu

RescueRanger said:


> Foreign envoys urge Pakistan to condemn Russian invasion of Ukraine during emergency UNGA session​- https://www.dawn.com/news/1677704
> 
> @That Guy @LeGenD @The Eagle @Chak Bamu @PDF @A1Kaid @Irfan Baloch @jaibi @Horus @Signalian @HRK
> 
> Thoughts? Treading water moment!


Its a European war & we would not be sucked into it. The only things that matter are: Trade & optics. We can give diplomatic statements & that would not change anything.

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## Wergeland 2.0

That Guy said:


> Man, this putin worship is hilarious. So many "straight" brown men fantasizing about a 70 year old bald white man, who thinks of them as nothing more than inferior 🐒



It is not brown men but rather the white non-elite who love him. Proven by the admiration he is shown by US republican voters.

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## QWECXZ

Muhammed45 said:


> I maybe wrong but man, that was a chain reaction. Oh boy
> 
> @QWECXZ What say you bro?


I don't know. It's hard to tell if an explosion like that is nuclear or not without measuring radiation levels near the area because some tactical nukes have low yields (below 1 kiloton) that can be similar to thermobaric weapons. Beirut explosion for example was almost the size of an explosion caused by a small tactical nuke and we saw the mushroom cloud there too.

Assuming there's no nuclear fallout, it does seem like a thermobaric explosion though, probably hitting a fuel storage, a power plant or an ammo deposit. The warhead detonated mid-air which is like what FOAB does. The reason that it burns longer than usual is a combination of sucking oxygen in and probably flammable material where the missile hit.

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## unrequitted_love_suzy

Russian helicopter violates Japanese airspace​








Russian helicopter violates Japanese airspace


DUBAI: The Japanese Ministry of Defense announced on Wednesday that a Russian helicopter had violated Japan’s airspace in the northern part of the country. On Twitter, the Defense Ministry said that Russia’s intensification of its activities in sea and airspace is a concern for Japan, especially...




www.arabnews.com


----------



## Madni Bappa

I


That Guy said:


> Man, this putin worship is hilarious. So many "straight" brown men fantasizing about a 70 year old bald white man, who thinks of them as nothing more than inferior 🐒


 I saw a meme of him. That's why I posted it lol

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## That Guy

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> It is not brown men but rather the white non-elite who love him. Proven by the admiration he is shown by US republican voters.


Nah, I've seen plenty of brown men, including on PDF, who adore him.


----------



## QWECXZ

RescueRanger said:


> Meanwhile from Washington:
> 
> *Putin may encircle Kiev with tanks, but he'll never gain the hearts and souls of the Iranian people." - Joe Biden*


As an Iranian, I feel that Putin has definitely not gained my heart or soul, but I am enjoying the war he has started very much.

I know that sounds cold-blooded, but this war has opened my eyes to too many realities that they were only conjectures for me before.

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## Madni Bappa

unrequitted_love_suzy said:


> Russian helicopter violates Japanese airspace​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian helicopter violates Japanese airspace
> 
> 
> DUBAI: The Japanese Ministry of Defense announced on Wednesday that a Russian helicopter had violated Japan’s airspace in the northern part of the country. On Twitter, the Defense Ministry said that Russia’s intensification of its activities in sea and airspace is a concern for Japan, especially...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.arabnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 820075


I guess what we're seeing is real life practical example of when Nawaz and Zardari say:
"Mian sahb inqalabi ho jae gae"
😂

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## Zibago

That Guy said:


> Man, this putin worship is hilarious. So many "straight" brown men fantasizing about a 70 year old bald white man, who thinks of them as nothing more than inferior 🐒


This is what happens when you let youtube be your political teacher

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## unrequitted_love_suzy

The Ukraine-Russia conflict could starve the Middle East​


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498987090876547076

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498990143444815876

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498990020014878721

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498990589794258944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498916514660945921

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## unrequitted_love_suzy

Iran sends plane to Poland to pick up students stranded in Ukraine​








Iran sends plane to Poland to pick up students stranded in Ukraine


TEHRAN- Iran has sent an airplane to Poland to bring back its citizens, mostly students, who have traveled from Ukraine whose airspace has been closed to civilian flights amid a raging conflict with Russia.




www.tehrantimes.com

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## Type59

Enigma SIG said:


> View attachment 820051
> 
> 
> Toughest sanctions yet. I bet Russia will go nuclear because of this.
> 
> /funnynotreal


Alot of Russian youths can always experience the real deal. Thank you Gabe for making recruitment easier😉


----------



## Ali_Baba

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498987090876547076



They are trying to cut off all supply lines including ammunition transfers to the capital - this is a precursor to a seige.

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## dBSPL

EU bans transfer of euro banknotes to Russia.


----------



## _Nabil_

That Guy said:


> Man, this putin worship is hilarious. So many "straight" brown men fantasizing about a 70 year old bald white man, who thinks of them as nothing more than inferior 🐒











Watch: Trump praises Putin amid Russian invasion of Ukraine - CNN Video


Amid Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine, former President Donald Trump has repeatedly praised Russian President Vladimir Putin. CNN's Chris Cillizza explains Trump's affinity for authoritarian leaders.




edition.cnn.com





Also
Putin: Insulting Prophet Muhammad is not freedom of expression​
24 DEC 2021
SHARE












During his annual press conference, Putin expressed the importance of artistic freedom without hindrance to religious freedom.




Putin said artistic freedom should not infringe on other freedoms. ( Reuters )
Russian President Vladimir Putin has said insulting Prophet Muhammad does not count as freedom of expression.
Insults to the prophet are a "violation of religious freedom and the violation of the sacred feelings of people who profess Islam,", Putin said on Thursday during his annual news conference, Russian News Agency TASS reported

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## Chak Bamu

Lehrasap said:


> Is the glorified Islamic history any DIFFERENT?
> Did the Muslim Kings, Sultans, Caliphs not take the women and children and men as slaves?
> Did they not loot every single thing in the name of Ghanimah (war booty)?
> Were Muslims not fighting each other too in wars?
> 
> Give credit to the West that despite the power, they tried to reform themselves. Despite conquering all the Islamic countries, neither they killed the male prisoners, nor raped the women, nor took the small children as slaves.
> 
> Of course, no one is perfect, and they all made mistakes. But the secular left-wing West indeed showed a lot of humanity.
> 
> You people are doing nothing else than putting a knife in the back of the secular left-wing West. And as a result, only the right-wing West will get stronger and it will take power in the West.
> 
> This new wave of "not our war" in the name of "Personal Benefits" is now getting preference over humanity, which will bring only a downfall of humanity.


Read some material on philosophy of war.

Wars started for resources do not aim for destruction. What good is a native population without men? Why destroy a population when you can tax them instead & enjoy the fruits of conquest that way? You did not think along those lines because you are ideologicall (I should say idiologically) committed & that is making you type things that have little backing in history.

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## dBSPL

We can't be sure without doing a full inventory study, but we can say that Russia is among the most important military suppliers of the Ukrainian army at the moment.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498982626224390146

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498989527645437952

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## Zibago

_Nabil_ said:


> Watch: Trump praises Putin amid Russian invasion of Ukraine - CNN Video
> 
> 
> Amid Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine, former President Donald Trump has repeatedly praised Russian President Vladimir Putin. CNN's Chris Cillizza explains Trump's affinity for authoritarian leaders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edition.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also
> Putin: Insulting Prophet Muhammad is not freedom of expression​
> 24 DEC 2021
> SHARE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During his annual press conference, Putin expressed the importance of artistic freedom without hindrance to religious freedom.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin said artistic freedom should not infringe on other freedoms. ( Reuters )
> Russian President Vladimir Putin has said insulting Prophet Muhammad does not count as freedom of expression.
> Insults to the prophet are a "violation of religious freedom and the violation of the sacred feelings of people who profess Islam,", Putin said on Thursday during his annual news conference, Russian News Agency TASS reported


Yeah but he is also backing all kind of anti Muslim politicians in Europe including that French female dog

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498994712111464452

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498995521192660996

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498995651966906368

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## _Nabil_

Zibago said:


> Yeah but he is also backing all kind of anti Muslim politicians in Europe including that French female dog


Last "Pro" Muslim European politicians where Mitterrand and Chirac, all the actual are anti Muslims ....

Whatever one he's backing will return to be an anti Muslim


----------



## Zibago

_Nabil_ said:


> Last "Pro" Muslim European politicians where Mitterrand and Chirac, all the actual are anti Muslims ....
> 
> Whatever one he's backing will return to be an anti Muslim


All are anti Muslim but that female dog and the French in general are just next level 
They view Muslims as less than human

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## Meengla

retaxis said:


> East Ukraine will be buffer state. Kiev will be bargaining chip. Things be back to normal in a couple of weeks



Yes.
And if Russia achieves that goal and consolidates its hold/stamp out any rebellion within the newly occupied region then Russian prestige globally will rise to great heights. Already some countries are sitting on the fence, waiting to see where this will lead to before they show their cards.

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## FuturePAF

A great compilation of some of the racist remarks by some journalists. This was also an aspect of why the west helped Bosnians and Kosovars during the Yugoslav wars of the 90s; the fact that they we’re white people. So it is indicative of a systematic own group preference in the culture, that it comes out so easily; the journalists instinctively know how to make the audience give damn.

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## PakAlp

RescueRanger said:


> Meanwhile from Washington:
> 
> *Putin may encircle Kiev with tanks, but he'll never gain the hearts and souls of the Iranian people." - Joe Biden
> 
> View attachment 820066
> *
> 
> Source:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe Biden Mistakenly Calls Ukrainian People 'Iranian' in Address, Video Goes Viral
> 
> 
> Putin may circle Kyiv with tanks, but he'll never gain the hearts and souls of the Iranian people, Joe Biden says in the viral video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.news18.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> —-
> 😂
> 
> 
> 😂 that’s true to be honest 😂



Haha crazy. Iranianphobia is still there

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## Bilal.

RescueRanger said:


> Meanwhile from Washington:
> 
> *Putin may encircle Kiev with tanks, but he'll never gain the hearts and souls of the Iranian people." - Joe Biden
> 
> View attachment 820066
> *
> 
> Source:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe Biden Mistakenly Calls Ukrainian People 'Iranian' in Address, Video Goes Viral
> 
> 
> Putin may circle Kyiv with tanks, but he'll never gain the hearts and souls of the Iranian people, Joe Biden says in the viral video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.news18.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> —-
> 😂
> 
> 
> 😂 that’s true to be honest 😂


Let’s hope they are not planning to win Iranian “hearts and minds”.

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## _Nabil_

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498987090876547076
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498990143444815876
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498990020014878721
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498990589794258944
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498916514660945921


Do you still believe fake footage and news from the west and the Ukrainian??? Only the sky is their limit in lying ...

Even BBC can't keep silent about it anymore,









Ukraine invasion: Misleading claims continue to go viral


False and misleading content continues to engage millions.



www.bbc.com

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## Patriot forever

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498952447410249731

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498984233594929160

Hypocricy at its peak.

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## dBSPL

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498994712111464452
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498995521192660996
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498995651966906368


Navy ship? 
If it's a navy ship, is it a combatant ship or a auxiliary ship? 
What was the ship shot by?
Countermeasure systems not working?

I'd appreciate it if anyone found anything on this.


----------



## Darius77

PakAlp said:


> Haha crazy. Iranianphobia is still there


This is the new western losers obsession:

1. Russophobia
2. Islamophobia
3. Iranophobia
4. Sinophobia (currently on hold since they need Chinese support against Russia)

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## Madni Bappa

_Nabil_ said:


> Do you still believe fake footage and news from the west and the Ukrainian??? Only the sky is their limit in lying ...
> 
> Even BBC can't keep silent about it anymore,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine invasion: Misleading claims continue to go viral
> 
> 
> False and misleading content continues to engage millions.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com


Some of the stuff coming out of Ukrainian disinfo factories is putting Indian BJP sh!t piles to shame.

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## Darius77

Madni Bappa said:


> Some of the stuff coming out of Ukrainian disinfo factories is putting Indian BJP sh!t piles to shame.


Modi's QUAD and kissing Anglo masters a ss has not worked out well.

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## PakAlp

Darius77 said:


> This is the new western losers obsession:
> 
> 1. Russophobia
> 2. Islamophobia
> 3. Iranophobia
> 4. Sinophobia (currently on hold since they need Chinese support against Russia)


True but I would also say what's stopping these countries from uniting and giving a befitting reply to the loosers. The west is strong because its united. I am still waiting for Russian key allies to respond.

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## _Nabil_

Patriot forever said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498952447410249731
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498984233594929160
> 
> Hypocricy at its peak.


Exactly!!!

At some point around 1789, when being told that her French subjects had no bread, Marie-Antoinette (bride of France's King Louis XVI) supposedly sniffed, “Qu'ils mangent de la brioche”—“Let them eat cake.” With that callous remark, the queen became a hated symbol of the decadent monarchy and fueled the revolution

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## Darius77

PakAlp said:


> True but I would also say what's stopping these countries from uniting and giving a befitting reply to the loosers. The west is strong because its united. I am still waiting for Russian key allies to respond.


China needs to be more assertive and in the long term it poses the real economic challenge to the west. Most of the Muslim world overtly or covertly is backing Russia, which BTW has also played in rather duplicitious role in the Middle east, backing the Zionist criminals. Hopefully, now as Russia faces an existential threat it may have to reconsider its policies.

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## maverick1977

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498952059558797312
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498954387254874115
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498955188811583492
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498946830373199874
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498948286383804417
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498943189138685952




Anyone remembers Fallujah,,wasnt that city indiscriminately destroyed when they resisted occupying forces ?

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## Enigma SIG

Madni Bappa said:


> Some of the stuff coming out of Ukrainian disinfo factories is putting Indian BJP sh!t piles to shame.


They're painting their own hardware with the Z symbols, some even using match moving software to remove Ukrainian flags.

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## Darius77

maverick1977 said:


> Anyone remembers Fallujah,,wasnt that city indiscriminately destroyed when they resisted occupying forces ?


The American cowards used DU ammunition and children are still suffering in Iraq.

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## LeGenD

*UPDATE*

Residents of Ukrainian city Konotop have *rejected* Russian ultimatum to surrender or face massive bombardment. They have decided to resist Russian forces.

Ukrainians are brave souls without any doubt.

Sources added:









Mayor of Konotop: city citizens assembly decided to reject Russian ultimatum to surrender or face massive bombardment Konotop,Sums'ka oblast - Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine Latest news on live map - liveuamap.com


Mayor of Konotop: city citizens assembly decided to reject Russian ultimatum to surrender or face massive bombardment. Live Universal Awareness Map Liveuamap is a leading independent global news and information site dedicated to factual reporting of a variety of important topics including...




liveuamap.com













Konotop residents reject Russia offer to surrender to avoid bombs


UKRAINIANS in the city of Konotop voted against agreeing to surrender to the Russian Army to spare the city further shelling, a new video appears to show.




www.express.co.uk













As Russian invaders demand that Konotop surrender, mayor explicitly defies threats


Russian invaders have offered the mayor of Konotop, Sumy region, Artem Semenikhin, to surrender the city, otherwise threatening to inflict a devastating artillery blow. — Ukrinform.




www.ukrinform.net

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## Avicenna

Darius77 said:


> China needs to be more assertive and in the long term it poses the real economic challenge to the west. Most of the Muslim world overtly or covertly is backing Russia, which BTW has also played in rather duplicitious role in the Middle east, backing the Zionist criminals. Hopefully, now as Russia faces an existential threat it may have to reconsider its policies.



The Russians are no angels.

But consider, what is the West's end game here?

What do they want?

And what's next after this?

If I were China, I would consider helping out the Russians.

What's the next step for the West after a weakened Russia or even a post Putin Russia?

It's straight up confronting a rising China.

A multipolar world would be a much more pleasant place for Muslims (by that I mean Muslim majority states) than a uni or bipolar one.

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## beast89

ziolensky know how palestinians feel

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## Wood

LeGenD said:


> *UPDATE*
> 
> Residents of Ukrainian city Konotop have *rejected* Russian ultimatum to surrender or face massive bombardment. They have decided to resist Russian forces.
> 
> Ukrainians are brave souls without any doubt.


This will soon be a massacre. At some point the world will have to stop cheering for Ukrainian resistance and start active assistance. Russia is still dealing with Ukraine in kid gloves. I'm afraid the local Ukrainians have not fully realized what Putin is capable of despite the aggression that is meted upon them so far.

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## RescueRanger

LeGenD said:


> *UPDATE*
> 
> Residents of Ukrainian city Konotop have *rejected* Russian ultimatum to surrender or face massive bombardment. They have decided to resist Russian forces.
> 
> Ukrainians are brave souls without any doubt.


I have a tremendous respect for the citizens of Ukraine. 👏

Roughly *874,000* people have fled Ukraine and the U.N. refugee agency warned the number could cross the 1 million mark soon. Countless others have taken shelter underground.

The overall death toll from the seven-day war is not clear, with neither Russia nor Ukraine releasing the number of troops lost. *Ukraine’s State Emergency Service said more than 2,000 civilians have died*, _though it was impossible to verify that claim_. 

*The U.N. human rights office has tallied 136 civilian deaths*, while acknowledging the actual toll is surely far higher.

Source: AP Wire

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## dBSPL

Ukraine wants to order corvettes and submarines from Germany​2 MARCH 2022 47






Ukraine wants to order corvettes and submarines from Germany
The Ukrainian Ambassador in Berlin, Andriy Melnyk, said that his country wants to acquire corvettes and submarines from Germany. Speaking to the T-Online website, Ambassador stated that Ukraine intends to purchase many defence materials from Germany.
Germany refused to donate defence materials to Ukraine for a long time. It also prevented other countries from transferring their systems to Ukraine for the same reason. A few days after the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Germany changed its policy and decided to send weapons to a country that was at war. This was the first time since the end of WW II.




Answering questions about Germany supplying arms to Ukraine, Ambassador Melnyk said, “You are very, very late, but hopefully not too late.” He continued, “It is not just about providing tactical help to Ukraine. All of our Partners should now be clear that we need to arm Ukraine to strengthen its defence capabilities. And Germany could play a central role in this. We want to order corvettes and submarines from German armaments companies. Concrete talks about this were impossible until a few days ago because of this political deadlock. Now I’m more confident.
What else does Ukraine need from Germany?




I’m thinking of stationary air defence systems. Germany supplies these systems to Egypt, so why not to us? I take the Chancellor, who spoke of the turning point, at his word. This means that the turning point must also be felt in practice, which is why both of our countries should dare to make an actual new start in the armaments sector.









Ukraine wants to order corvettes and submarines from Germany | TurDef


The Ukrainian Ambassador in Berlin, Andriy Melnyk, said that his country wants to acquire corvettes and submarines from Germany. Speaking to the T-Online website, Ambassador stated that Ukraine intends to purchase many defence materials from Germany.




www.turdef.com

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## maverick1977

LeGenD said:


> *UPDATE*
> 
> Residents of Ukrainian city Konotop have *rejected* Russian ultimatum to surrender or face massive bombardment. They have decided to resist Russian forces.
> 
> Ukrainians are brave souls without any doubt.



Fallujah 2.0 in making

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## _Nabil_

LeGenD said:


> *UPDATE*
> 
> Residents of Ukrainian city Konotop have *rejected* Russian ultimatum to surrender or face massive bombardment. They have decided to resist Russian forces.
> 
> Ukrainians are brave souls without any doubt.


Source please?








In negotiations with aggressor in Konotop, agreement reached on no entry of troops, no shooting at them by Ukrainian side - Head of Sumy regional military administration


Head of Sumy regional military administration Dmytro Zhyvytsky claims that in negotiations with the invaders in Konotop, an agreement was reached that there would be no troops, but the Ukrainian side would not shoot at them.




www.google.com





In negotiations with aggressor in Konotop, agreement reached on no entry of troops, no shooting at them by Ukrainian side - Head of Sumy regional military administration


14:07, 02.03.20221 min read
Head of Sumy regional military administration Dmytro Zhyvytsky claims that in negotiations with the invaders in Konotop, an agreement was reached that there would be no troops, but the Ukrainian side would not shoot at them.

"The conversation with the Russians in Konotop, authorized by me from the military administration, lasted about 12 minutes. I was on speakerphone during the negotiations. The agreement is as follows: There can be no question of any change of power. They are interested in law and order. There will be no entry of troops. The Ukrainian flag is in place," he wrote on the Telegram channel.

At the same time, Zhyvytsky noted that there is an agreement that the Ukrainian side will not shoot at them and there will be no mutual provocations, but they will remain in their positions, and unhindered passage of public transport and services, ambulances, with food, humanitarian cargo will be provided.

"In order to ensure security in the city and control by our volunteers, checkpoints will be additionally installed deep into the town of Konotop," he wrote.

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> Ukraine wants to order corvettes and submarines from Germany​2 MARCH 2022 47
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine wants to order corvettes and submarines from Germany
> The Ukrainian Ambassador in Berlin, Andriy Melnyk, said that his country wants to acquire corvettes and submarines from Germany. Speaking to the T-Online website, Ambassador stated that Ukraine intends to purchase many defence materials from Germany.
> Germany refused to donate defence materials to Ukraine for a long time. It also prevented other countries from transferring their systems to Ukraine for the same reason. A few days after the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Germany changed its policy and decided to send weapons to a country that was at war. This was the first time since the end of WW II.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Answering questions about Germany supplying arms to Ukraine, Ambassador Melnyk said, “You are very, very late, but hopefully not too late.” He continued, “It is not just about providing tactical help to Ukraine. All of our Partners should now be clear that we need to arm Ukraine to strengthen its defence capabilities. And Germany could play a central role in this. We want to order corvettes and submarines from German armaments companies. Concrete talks about this were impossible until a few days ago because of this political deadlock. Now I’m more confident.
> What else does Ukraine need from Germany?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I’m thinking of stationary air defence systems. Germany supplies these systems to Egypt, so why not to us? I take the Chancellor, who spoke of the turning point, at his word. This means that the turning point must also be felt in practice, which is why both of our countries should dare to make an actual new start in the armaments sector.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine wants to order corvettes and submarines from Germany | TurDef
> 
> 
> The Ukrainian Ambassador in Berlin, Andriy Melnyk, said that his country wants to acquire corvettes and submarines from Germany. Speaking to the T-Online website, Ambassador stated that Ukraine intends to purchase many defence materials from Germany.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.turdef.com


This will be very dangerous and will prompt another arms race.


----------



## PakAlp

dBSPL said:


> Ukraine wants to order corvettes and submarines from Germany​2 MARCH 2022 47
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine wants to order corvettes and submarines from Germany
> The Ukrainian Ambassador in Berlin, Andriy Melnyk, said that his country wants to acquire corvettes and submarines from Germany. Speaking to the T-Online website, Ambassador stated that Ukraine intends to purchase many defence materials from Germany.
> Germany refused to donate defence materials to Ukraine for a long time. It also prevented other countries from transferring their systems to Ukraine for the same reason. A few days after the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Germany changed its policy and decided to send weapons to a country that was at war. This was the first time since the end of WW II.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Answering questions about Germany supplying arms to Ukraine, Ambassador Melnyk said, “You are very, very late, but hopefully not too late.” He continued, “It is not just about providing tactical help to Ukraine. All of our Partners should now be clear that we need to arm Ukraine to strengthen its defence capabilities. And Germany could play a central role in this. We want to order corvettes and submarines from German armaments companies. Concrete talks about this were impossible until a few days ago because of this political deadlock. Now I’m more confident.
> What else does Ukraine need from Germany?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I’m thinking of stationary air defence systems. Germany supplies these systems to Egypt, so why not to us? I take the Chancellor, who spoke of the turning point, at his word. This means that the turning point must also be felt in practice, which is why both of our countries should dare to make an actual new start in the armaments sector.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine wants to order corvettes and submarines from Germany | TurDef
> 
> 
> The Ukrainian Ambassador in Berlin, Andriy Melnyk, said that his country wants to acquire corvettes and submarines from Germany. Speaking to the T-Online website, Ambassador stated that Ukraine intends to purchase many defence materials from Germany.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.turdef.com



They will need land operated Corvettes and submarines.

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## LeGenD

_Nabil_ said:


> Source please?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In negotiations with aggressor in Konotop, agreement reached on no entry of troops, no shooting at them by Ukrainian side - Head of Sumy regional military administration
> 
> 
> Head of Sumy regional military administration Dmytro Zhyvytsky claims that in negotiations with the invaders in Konotop, an agreement was reached that there would be no troops, but the Ukrainian side would not shoot at them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In negotiations with aggressor in Konotop, agreement reached on no entry of troops, no shooting at them by Ukrainian side - Head of Sumy regional military administration
> 
> 
> 14:07, 02.03.20221 min read
> Head of Sumy regional military administration Dmytro Zhyvytsky claims that in negotiations with the invaders in Konotop, an agreement was reached that there would be no troops, but the Ukrainian side would not shoot at them.
> 
> "The conversation with the Russians in Konotop, authorized by me from the military administration, lasted about 12 minutes. I was on speakerphone during the negotiations. The agreement is as follows: There can be no question of any change of power. They are interested in law and order. There will be no entry of troops. The Ukrainian flag is in place," he wrote on the Telegram channel.
> 
> At the same time, Zhyvytsky noted that there is an agreement that the Ukrainian side will not shoot at them and there will be no mutual provocations, but they will remain in their positions, and unhindered passage of public transport and services, ambulances, with food, humanitarian cargo will be provided.
> 
> "In order to ensure security in the city and control by our volunteers, checkpoints will be additionally installed deep into the town of Konotop," he wrote.











Mayor of Konotop: city citizens assembly decided to reject Russian ultimatum to surrender or face massive bombardment Konotop,Sums'ka oblast - Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine Latest news on live map - liveuamap.com


Mayor of Konotop: city citizens assembly decided to reject Russian ultimatum to surrender or face massive bombardment. Live Universal Awareness Map Liveuamap is a leading independent global news and information site dedicated to factual reporting of a variety of important topics including...




liveuamap.com













Konotop residents reject Russia offer to surrender to avoid bombs


UKRAINIANS in the city of Konotop voted against agreeing to surrender to the Russian Army to spare the city further shelling, a new video appears to show.




www.express.co.uk













As Russian invaders demand that Konotop surrender, mayor explicitly defies threats


Russian invaders have offered the mayor of Konotop, Sumy region, Artem Semenikhin, to surrender the city, otherwise threatening to inflict a devastating artillery blow. — Ukrinform.




www.ukrinform.net





Things are changing rapidly.

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## beast89

wow what a clown saying they whooping Russian and did not take a single loss during the night. Ironic he was supporting Israel hardcore less than a year ago, now he's crying about being erased. Russia is showing restraint. Clown will lose half his country in due course.

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## The Eagle

In the same world calling for everything against Russia, this is happening since long.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498703716588965893
Speaks volume of priorities for US/West HR police.

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## RescueRanger

Ukrainians are counter attacking Russian forces in southern Donetsk which was captured by Russian forces earlier 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499012328897003523

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## _Nabil_

Absolutely, your source is 3 hours old, the one I have found is 1 hour old

And probably things can change ....

@LeGenD


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## Vergennes

Russian column destroyed in Bucha north of Kyiv... seems like they learned nothing from the battles of Grozny...

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## Wergeland 2.0

That Guy said:


> Nah, I've seen plenty of brown men, including on PDF, who adore him.



I think youre misinterpreting them.


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## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> Russian column destroyed in Bucha north of Kyiv... seems like they learned nothing from the battles of Grozny...
> 
> View attachment 820099
> 
> View attachment 820100


But they have taken Irpin bridge which is the last town before Kyiv:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498999575243276291

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## Madni Bappa

Enigma SIG said:


> They're painting their own hardware with the Z symbols, some even using match moving software to remove Ukrainian flags.


I've noticed same you can clearly see the drip from spray painted Z symbol.

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## Vergennes

More Russian junk being destroyed. The number of material losses and hardware abandoned is just astonishing.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499015114573373441

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## Domobran7

A short article I've written, but... the war had basically proven what I had been talking about for a long time. Doesn't matter if you have the most modern fighters (which Ukrainians don't, mind you) if you left them sitting out in the open on a tarmac that can be seen literally from orbit...








Vulnerability of Modern Air Forces – Case of Ukraine


The war in Ukraine has shown many things, but one of major ones was vulnerability of modern Western-style air forces to destruction on the ground. Operations of modern fighters require long concret…




historyandwarfare.wordpress.com

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## ADIL SHERDIL

Right now nothing is clear. Russians are not releasing any number regarding their losses while if you look at western media it looks like Putin forced every soldier to go to Ukraine. False stories are spreading through out every medium of communication. If we consider what BBC,CNN or even Fox news is saying then it look like Russians are either so unprepared or they are incompetent to go to war.
But unfortunately Ukraine have been left alone. No support is coming and as thing are going in Ukraine ,the people will pay the price. Ukraine and Russia must talk and resolve this issue. What is everyone thinking will happen to Zelensky once he is captured by the enemy forces?

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## RescueRanger

RescueRanger said:


> Ukrainians are counter attacking Russian forces in southern Donetsk which was captured by Russian forces earlier
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499012328897003523


It would appear the Russians are now claiming to have captured the entirety of Donbas after defeating the last pocket of organised counter assault. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499017040937504772

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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499016936067371018

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498986772558196740


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## RescueRanger

The western propaganda machine is falling apart:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498773245339840518

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## Meengla

This war is too destructive and bloody and has too far reaching geopolitical implications to be allowed to last for very long. Not going to be some of those Balkan wars of the 90s which dragged on otherwise this war can lead to a regional or even a World War. I don't think Putin is going to want to look defeated. He has already indicated his *nuclear blackmail*. I go down, I will take you all down. 
While some countries are sitting on the fence to see where this is going, already I hear Iranians are being accommodated by Washington in the nuclear deal to make them break away from China/Russia alignment. The war is also pushing Russia totally into the Chinese side, removing the decades old Russian 'strategic ambiguity'. I also saw somewhere that even Indians will be expected to limit alliances with the West to trade. Among all these, China may be given a primacy in Asia, which of course indirectly benefits Pakistan. 

Anyway, IF--and a big IF--what this American Colonel says is correct then the sooner this is wrapped up the better: Russia gains eastern Ukraine and gets the guarantee of a neutral Ukraine. No need to spill more blood.

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## coffee_cup

That Guy said:


> Nah, I've seen plenty of brown men, including on PDF, who adore him.


I think, people will start adoring even you if you stand up against known bullies of the world going around destroying country after country and no one can bring them to justice for war crimes / genocides.

Just human psychology, "look there is someone who is challenging those hyenas", thats all they see. That man is not a hero/vilian per se.

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## Ali_Baba

RescueRanger said:


> But they have taken Irpin bridge which is the last town before Kyiv:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498999575243276291



If so - very suprised they did not set it to blow up ... and one that will cost ukraine.


----------



## thetutle

OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ said:


> Western mind is in deepest form of depression, nihilism is rampant and fatalism is its result. Every indicator is heading south from here on in... if you're a numbers guy, just start tallying them in... from population, disparity in wealth, ever increasing debts, an imminent tsunami of inflation from all the paper out in the world, a policy of no near peer competitor to a multiple on horizon, loss of narrative and waning of any real deterrence from reaching the point of no return.
> 
> It is time to reflect...


It is heartbreaking and mind boggling that white people that I am relatively closely related to have gone full retard. And as much as I admire their culture and language which is similar to my own, there are just some very evil people out there that need to be stopped for the sake of humanity. There will be may casualties and much suffering, but such conflicts have only ever served to make white people top of their game in science and technology. 

The strength of US and EU is so vast thats its quite scary. Russia, a country I have been to is also very impressive, but is ultimately no match for US and EU. 

As a wise man once said, "the (eastern) dotard will be tamed with fire". And the west will prevail in this conflict. This is so unnecessary and mind boggling but it will work out in the end and Russia will become a normal country and a not a threat to others. 

I can see their point of view, the Yanukovich guy was ousted in a CIA plot but there eave been elections since and they chose their leader. I respect Ukraines choice, even through I would not vote for a jewish comedian to run my own country. 

Interestingly, Jews and gypsies are not allowed to be presidents of Bosnia. even tough they have been in the country for 400 years.

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## RescueRanger

Ali_Baba said:


> If so - very suprised they did not set it to blow up ... and one that will cost ukraine.


Yeah I’m surprised the Ukrainians didn’t blow that bridge up. Either they didn’t expect the Russians to move in so fast and got taken by surprise or it was a tactical oversight. 

Who knows in all this misinformation. We can only watch and observe and pray that all this ends soon.

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## thetutle

Darius77 said:


> It is one of the most inspiring Russian patriotic song from the great patriotic war. Every Russian child knows it. The German Nazis are still petrified of the Red Army.



Its not that patriotic, its about a girl running in the fields and blooming fruit trees.


----------



## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498748704823595008

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## The Eagle

Putin explains earlier as what was wrong and ignored that resulted in attack.





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=665557294564505

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## Vergennes

Constructive exchange between Ukrainian and russian soldiers


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498999740066840583

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## Clutch

Darius77 said:


> The American cowards used DU ammunition and children are still suffering in Iraq.



Also the Phosphorus Bombs Israel dropped while the Western world just watched and laughed.....

This Ukraine war has only highlighted hypocrisy of the Western nations and the fact that they are blatantly racist. The whole human rights mantra was a load of BS!

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## QWECXZ

thetutle said:


> Its not that patriotic, its about a girl running in the fields and blooming fruit trees.


And cherishing in her heart the love of his man whose letters she keeps while he is fighting at the war front for the Fatherland.

More patriotic than what Western creeps could've ever come up with.

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## Madni Bappa

maverick1977 said:


> Anyone remembers Fallujah,,wasnt that city indiscriminately destroyed when they resisted occupying forces ?


Why is every second word blyat in Slavic language sentences?

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## ADIL SHERDIL

Atleast during this war many thing are cleared. Western Media has shown its true colour. They have tried to make this war into crusade and according to them if its Asia or Africa then people dying is fine but when it comes to blonde hair and blue eyes then its a tragedy.
If US invade other countries on false pretext (Like Iraq ) then they are not answerable although they turned a country into ruins just because they didnt like SADDAM who was once their pal.
Western made huge claims to Ukraine but in their hour of need there support is no where to be found while entire Europe is buying Gas from Russia.
The hypocrisy is at the highest level with these racist nations.

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## QWECXZ

Madni Bappa said:


> Why is every second word blyat in Slavic language sentences?


It depends on the language though. Poles would say kurwa. lol

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## Meengla

thetutle said:


> This is so unnecessary and mind boggling but it will work out in the end and Russia will become a normal country and a not a threat to others.



Correct.
However, some countries, led by Washington, were too eager to grab Russia's natural resources, which are *truly *enormous. I believe if NATO had not been extended then Russia would not militarize to this extent again. I believe a post-Putin Russia would naturally join Europe albeit as a reduced state of Russia mostly to the west of Urals. The greatly expanded Russia we see now is a result of ruthless conquests from the CZars times and there is not much in common between Russia's far east and Russia's Muslim Caucasus regions with the Russia west of the Urals. This would have all sorted out given time. But some powers couldn't wait and now we see this very tragic blood bath.

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## Madni Bappa

The Eagle said:


> In the same world calling for everything against Russia, this is happening since long.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498703716588965893
> Speaks volume of priorities for US/West HR police.


Shahadat of Al Aqsa is closer than we think


----------



## Turingsage

Meanwhile Russians are fed a diet of lies and propaganda.
The Russian populace believe this as all other sources of actual events is banned and erased.


Ukraine: Watching the war on Russian TV - a whole different story​*By Simona Kralova & Sandro Vetsko*
BBC Monitoring

Published
12 hours ago






Image source, Getty Images
Image caption, 
A woman in St Petersburg watching footage of President Putin on TV last week
*Never was there a better illustration of the alternative reality presented by Russian state media than at 17:00 GMT on Tuesday. As BBC World TV opened its bulletin with reports of a Russian attack on a TV tower in the capital Kyiv, Russian TV was announcing that Ukraine was responsible for strikes on its own cities.*
So what are Russian TV viewers seeing of the war? What messages are they hearing over the airwaves? Below is a snapshot of what ordinary Russians would have picked up, on Tuesday 1 March, while channel-hopping across the country's key TV stations, which are controlled by the Kremlin and its corporate allies.




Good Morning, on state-controlled *Channel One*, one of Russia's most popular channels, is to the casual observer not unlike the breakfast broadcasting found in many other countries with its mix of news, culture and light entertainment.
On Tuesday the normal running order is interrupted at 05:30 Moscow time [02:30 GMT]. The presenters announce that TV schedules have been changed "due to well known events", and there will be more news and current affairs. The news bulletin suggests that reports about Ukrainian forces destroying Russian military hardware are false, designed to "mislead inexperienced viewers".
"Footage continues to be circulated on the internet which cannot be described as anything but fake," the presenter explains as the viewer is shown photographs of what is described as "unsophisticated virtual manipulations".




Image caption, 
Russia's Channel One presenter showed two photos of the same military vehicle - the top photo is captioned "Donbas 2014" and the bottom one "Ukrainian montage". He claims the top photo is of a Ukrainian vehicle destroyed in the conflict zone in 2014 and that the bottom photo is of the same image, manipulated to make it look like newly destroyed Russian hardware. He says a "Z" has been added - a common marking for Russian military equipment.
Later in the morning, at 08:00 Moscow time, we tune in for the morning bulletin from television channel *NTV*, which is owned by a subsidiary of Gazprom, a Kremlin-controlled firm. It concentrates almost exclusively on events in Donbas, the region in the east of Ukraine where on 24 February, Russia stated it was beginning its "special military operation" to demilitarise and denazify Ukraine.
There is no mention of reports of the ominous miles-long military convoy snaking its way from Belarus in the north to Ukraine's capital Kyiv, which, in the UK, leads the BBC Radio 4 news bulletin half-an-hour later.
"We start with the latest news from Donbas. LNR [Luhansk People's Republic] fighters continue their offensive, having travelled 3km, while DNR [Donetsk People's Republic] units have travelled 16km," the NTV presenter says.
The presenter is referring to the Moscow-backed rebels who have been in control of the so-called Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics since Russia's intervention in east Ukraine eight years ago.




Image caption, 
The caption in white from this report by Rossiya 24 TV reads: "Ukrofascism" -Ukrainian fascism
On *Rossiya 1* and *Channel One* - Russia's two most popular channels, both state-controlled - Ukrainian forces are accused of war crimes in the Donbas region. The threat to civilians in Ukraine comes not from Russian forces, but from "Ukrainian nationalists", says the Rossiya 1 presenter.
"They use civilians as a human shield, deliberately positioning strike systems in residential areas and stepping up the shelling of cities in Donbas."
Channel One's presenter announces that Ukrainian troops "are preparing to shell residential houses" and bomb warehouses with ammonia, in "acts of provocation against civilians and Russian forces".
Events in Ukraine are not referred to as war. Instead, the offensive is described as a demilitarisation operation targeting military infrastructure or a "special [military] operation to defend the people's republics".
Across state-controlled TV, presenters and correspondents use emotive language and images to draw "historical parallels" between Russia's "special military operation" in Ukraine and the Soviet Union's fight against Nazi Germany.
"The tactics of nationalists who use children to shield themselves have not changed since the Second World War," says the presenter of a morning show on Rossiya 1's sister channel,* Rossiya 24*.
"They behave like fascists, in the very sense of this word: neo-Nazis put their hardware not just next to residential houses but where children take shelter in basements," adds the correspondent in a video report captioned "Ukrainian fascism".
Blaming Ukraine​The passage echoes the unproven claims made by Vladimir Putin last week that Ukraine was using women, children and the elderly as human shields.
While media in the West has been asking whether Putin's assault has struggled to make quick progress, Russian TV portrays the Russian operations as very successful. Regular updates give numbers of destroyed Ukrainian hardware and weaponry. More than 1,100 Ukrainian military infrastructure facilities have been disabled and hundreds of pieces of hardware have been destroyed, morning news reports say. There is no mention of any Russian casualties.
Russian morning news bulletins barely acknowledge its army's offensives in other parts of Ukraine. State TV correspondents are not reporting on the ground from places like Kyiv and Kharkiv, the two major cities that have seen shelling of people's homes. Instead, they are embedded with troops in Donbas.
But by the afternoon edition of the news, *NTV *finally mentions the news event that has dominated hours of coverage on the BBC by this stage - the shelling of the city of Kharkiv.
However, it debunks any reports that Russian forces are responsible, calling them "fake".
"Judging by the trajectory of the missile, the strike was delivered from the north-west where there are no Russian forces," the presenter says during the 16:00 Moscow time edition of the news. Four hours later, a bulletin by *Rossiya 1* goes further, blaming Ukraine itself for the bombing.
"To strike Kharkiv and say that it was Russia. Ukraine is hitting its own and is lying to the West. But is it possible to deceive the people?" it asks.
During a 17:00 bulletin, the Rossiya 1 presenter outlines what she says is Russia's "main objective" in Ukraine: "The defence of Russia against the threat from the West, which is using the Ukrainian people in its stand-off with Moscow."
To counter what is described as "fake news and rumours" about Ukraine which are circulating online", she announces that the Russian government is launching a new website where "only true information will be published".



Image source, Reuters
Image caption, 
Blast at a TV mast in Kyiv, 1 March 2022
TV stations are required by the media watchdog Roskomnadzor to follow the official narrative.
But that is not to say that there was no variety in the tone of Tuesday's reporting. While the news bulletins talked of Ukrainian war crimes, Vyacheslav Nikonov, pro-Kremlin host of *Channel One *TV's current affairs talk show The Great Game, spoke about his love of Ukraine as he signed off.
"I very much love Ukraine, I love Ukrainians. I have travelled across the country on multiple occasions. It indeed is a brilliant, wonderful country. And I think Russia is, of course, interested in it being a prosperous, friendly country… Our cause is just. We shall be victorious."
Increasing numbers of younger Russians tend to get their news from independent websites or social media, and the longer the war goes on, the more images and videos of dead soldiers and prisoners of war are surfacing. But the authorities are responding to this and turning the screws on independent reporting.
Roskomnadzor has ordered TikTok to remove military and political content in its suggestions to minors, complaining, "in most cases, these materials have a pronounced anti-Russian character". It also demanded that Google remove what it describes as false information about the Russian army's reported losses, and Reuters reports it has re-imposed a slowdown on Twitter's loading speeds over "fake reports" of Moscow's "special military operation", and restricted access to Facebook.
It has instructed media outlets to use information only from official Russian sources when reporting the invasion, demanding that they take down any reports referring to "a declaration of war" or "an invasion". It has threatened them with fines and blocking if they do not take action. The websites of the independent TV channel *Dozhd *and popular liberal radio station *Ekho Moskvy* have been blocked for alleged calls for extremism and violence, and "systematic spread of false information about the activities of the Russian military".
_With additional reporting by Francis Scarr









Ukraine: Watching the war on Russian TV - a whole different story


The war in Ukraine has led to outrage in the West, but in Russia TV viewers see a very different story.



www.bbc.co.uk




_

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## Avicenna

Meengla said:


> Correct.
> However, some countries, led by Washington, were too eager to grab Russia's natural resources, which are *truly *enormous. I believe if NATO had not been extended then Russia would not militarize to this extent again. I believe a post-Putin Russia would naturally join Europe albeit as a reduced state of Russia mostly to the west of Urals. The greatly expanded Russia we see now is a result of ruthless conquests from the CZars times and there is not much in common between Russia's far east and Russia's Muslim Caucasus regions with the Russia west of the Urals. This would have all sorted out given time. But some powers couldn't wait and now we see this very tragic blood bath.



These muppets in Washington and EU are playing with fire.


----------



## NA71

Russians after 6th day of War could not achieve Air Superiority over Ukrainian Skies despite all the advantages they have....any particular reason?

CNN reporting heaviest air battle took place last night in which two Russian jets were destroyed....


----------



## RescueRanger

Picard578 said:


> A short article I've written, but... the war had basically proven what I had been talking about for a long time. Doesn't matter if you have the most modern fighters (which Ukrainians don't, mind you) if you left them sitting out in the open on a tarmac that can be seen literally from orbit...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vulnerability of Modern Air Forces – Case of Ukraine
> 
> 
> The war in Ukraine has shown many things, but one of major ones was vulnerability of modern Western-style air forces to destruction on the ground. Operations of modern fighters require long concret…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> historyandwarfare.wordpress.com


Very nice article thank you for your insight.

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## Madni Bappa

Vergennes said:


> Constructive exchange between Ukrainian and russian soldiers
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498999740066840583


Cyka blyat nahoy budak blyat!!!

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## jamahir

Titanium100 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498748704823595008



Sure, the rational people of the world will never forget how the Western governments and their pliant media agencies glorified the Nazis of Mariupol.



The Eagle said:


> Putin explains earlier as what was wrong and ignored that resulted in attack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=665557294564505



Wise words. But will BBC, CNN, French and German media and Indian media and others such run this press conference ? Nyet.

Also, I wonder if Modi will ever talk in this simple, clear and intelligent manner.

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## xuxu1457

Allwinyay：

Before I went to sleep, my wife said to me: This Russia is such a bad country, If Ukraine wants to join Nato, it is their business and freedom, Russia has no right to intervene, this is just an excuse for Russia to invade Ukarine.

So I said nothing, I just went to the kitchen and took a knife to bedside, then I said: Let’s go to sleep.

My wife looked at me with her wide eyes: What the heck are you doing, sleeping with a knife?!?!

I said: No worry, let’s go to sleep. Beside, sleeping with a knife is none of your business and it is my freedom.

My wife said: How can I sleep when you are sleeping with a knife? What if you accidentally cut me?

I said: Well, You don’t even trust your own husband, how can you expect Russia to trust Ukraine? Me sleeping with a knife is like Ukraine joining the Nato.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Madni Bappa

NA71 said:


> Russians after 6th day of War could not achieve Air Superiority over Ukrainian Skies despite all the advantages they have....any particular reason?
> 
> CNN reporting heaviest air battle took place last night in which two Russian jets were destroyed....


Ghost of Kiev man. Legend has it he destroyed 9 Russian jets in 1:30 minutes. His jet is lined with special coating. He can become visually invisible.



Turingsage said:


> Meanwhile Russians are fed a diet of lies and propaganda.
> The Russian populace believe this as all other sources of actual events is banned and erased.
> 
> 
> Ukraine: Watching the war on Russian TV - a whole different story​*By Simona Kralova & Sandro Vetsko*
> BBC Monitoring
> 
> Published
> 12 hours ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image source, Getty Images
> Image caption,
> A woman in St Petersburg watching footage of President Putin on TV last week
> *Never was there a better illustration of the alternative reality presented by Russian state media than at 17:00 GMT on Tuesday. As BBC World TV opened its bulletin with reports of a Russian attack on a TV tower in the capital Kyiv, Russian TV was announcing that Ukraine was responsible for strikes on its own cities.*
> So what are Russian TV viewers seeing of the war? What messages are they hearing over the airwaves? Below is a snapshot of what ordinary Russians would have picked up, on Tuesday 1 March, while channel-hopping across the country's key TV stations, which are controlled by the Kremlin and its corporate allies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good Morning, on state-controlled *Channel One*, one of Russia's most popular channels, is to the casual observer not unlike the breakfast broadcasting found in many other countries with its mix of news, culture and light entertainment.
> On Tuesday the normal running order is interrupted at 05:30 Moscow time [02:30 GMT]. The presenters announce that TV schedules have been changed "due to well known events", and there will be more news and current affairs. The news bulletin suggests that reports about Ukrainian forces destroying Russian military hardware are false, designed to "mislead inexperienced viewers".
> "Footage continues to be circulated on the internet which cannot be described as anything but fake," the presenter explains as the viewer is shown photographs of what is described as "unsophisticated virtual manipulations".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image caption,
> Russia's Channel One presenter showed two photos of the same military vehicle - the top photo is captioned "Donbas 2014" and the bottom one "Ukrainian montage". He claims the top photo is of a Ukrainian vehicle destroyed in the conflict zone in 2014 and that the bottom photo is of the same image, manipulated to make it look like newly destroyed Russian hardware. He says a "Z" has been added - a common marking for Russian military equipment.
> Later in the morning, at 08:00 Moscow time, we tune in for the morning bulletin from television channel *NTV*, which is owned by a subsidiary of Gazprom, a Kremlin-controlled firm. It concentrates almost exclusively on events in Donbas, the region in the east of Ukraine where on 24 February, Russia stated it was beginning its "special military operation" to demilitarise and denazify Ukraine.
> There is no mention of reports of the ominous miles-long military convoy snaking its way from Belarus in the north to Ukraine's capital Kyiv, which, in the UK, leads the BBC Radio 4 news bulletin half-an-hour later.
> "We start with the latest news from Donbas. LNR [Luhansk People's Republic] fighters continue their offensive, having travelled 3km, while DNR [Donetsk People's Republic] units have travelled 16km," the NTV presenter says.
> The presenter is referring to the Moscow-backed rebels who have been in control of the so-called Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics since Russia's intervention in east Ukraine eight years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image caption,
> The caption in white from this report by Rossiya 24 TV reads: "Ukrofascism" -Ukrainian fascism
> On *Rossiya 1* and *Channel One* - Russia's two most popular channels, both state-controlled - Ukrainian forces are accused of war crimes in the Donbas region. The threat to civilians in Ukraine comes not from Russian forces, but from "Ukrainian nationalists", says the Rossiya 1 presenter.
> "They use civilians as a human shield, deliberately positioning strike systems in residential areas and stepping up the shelling of cities in Donbas."
> Channel One's presenter announces that Ukrainian troops "are preparing to shell residential houses" and bomb warehouses with ammonia, in "acts of provocation against civilians and Russian forces".
> Events in Ukraine are not referred to as war. Instead, the offensive is described as a demilitarisation operation targeting military infrastructure or a "special [military] operation to defend the people's republics".
> Across state-controlled TV, presenters and correspondents use emotive language and images to draw "historical parallels" between Russia's "special military operation" in Ukraine and the Soviet Union's fight against Nazi Germany.
> "The tactics of nationalists who use children to shield themselves have not changed since the Second World War," says the presenter of a morning show on Rossiya 1's sister channel,* Rossiya 24*.
> "They behave like fascists, in the very sense of this word: neo-Nazis put their hardware not just next to residential houses but where children take shelter in basements," adds the correspondent in a video report captioned "Ukrainian fascism".
> Blaming Ukraine​The passage echoes the unproven claims made by Vladimir Putin last week that Ukraine was using women, children and the elderly as human shields.
> While media in the West has been asking whether Putin's assault has struggled to make quick progress, Russian TV portrays the Russian operations as very successful. Regular updates give numbers of destroyed Ukrainian hardware and weaponry. More than 1,100 Ukrainian military infrastructure facilities have been disabled and hundreds of pieces of hardware have been destroyed, morning news reports say. There is no mention of any Russian casualties.
> Russian morning news bulletins barely acknowledge its army's offensives in other parts of Ukraine. State TV correspondents are not reporting on the ground from places like Kyiv and Kharkiv, the two major cities that have seen shelling of people's homes. Instead, they are embedded with troops in Donbas.
> But by the afternoon edition of the news, *NTV *finally mentions the news event that has dominated hours of coverage on the BBC by this stage - the shelling of the city of Kharkiv.
> However, it debunks any reports that Russian forces are responsible, calling them "fake".
> "Judging by the trajectory of the missile, the strike was delivered from the north-west where there are no Russian forces," the presenter says during the 16:00 Moscow time edition of the news. Four hours later, a bulletin by *Rossiya 1* goes further, blaming Ukraine itself for the bombing.
> "To strike Kharkiv and say that it was Russia. Ukraine is hitting its own and is lying to the West. But is it possible to deceive the people?" it asks.
> During a 17:00 bulletin, the Rossiya 1 presenter outlines what she says is Russia's "main objective" in Ukraine: "The defence of Russia against the threat from the West, which is using the Ukrainian people in its stand-off with Moscow."
> To counter what is described as "fake news and rumours" about Ukraine which are circulating online", she announces that the Russian government is launching a new website where "only true information will be published".
> 
> 
> 
> Image source, Reuters
> Image caption,
> Blast at a TV mast in Kyiv, 1 March 2022
> TV stations are required by the media watchdog Roskomnadzor to follow the official narrative.
> But that is not to say that there was no variety in the tone of Tuesday's reporting. While the news bulletins talked of Ukrainian war crimes, Vyacheslav Nikonov, pro-Kremlin host of *Channel One *TV's current affairs talk show The Great Game, spoke about his love of Ukraine as he signed off.
> "I very much love Ukraine, I love Ukrainians. I have travelled across the country on multiple occasions. It indeed is a brilliant, wonderful country. And I think Russia is, of course, interested in it being a prosperous, friendly country… Our cause is just. We shall be victorious."
> Increasing numbers of younger Russians tend to get their news from independent websites or social media, and the longer the war goes on, the more images and videos of dead soldiers and prisoners of war are surfacing. But the authorities are responding to this and turning the screws on independent reporting.
> Roskomnadzor has ordered TikTok to remove military and political content in its suggestions to minors, complaining, "in most cases, these materials have a pronounced anti-Russian character". It also demanded that Google remove what it describes as false information about the Russian army's reported losses, and Reuters reports it has re-imposed a slowdown on Twitter's loading speeds over "fake reports" of Moscow's "special military operation", and restricted access to Facebook.
> It has instructed media outlets to use information only from official Russian sources when reporting the invasion, demanding that they take down any reports referring to "a declaration of war" or "an invasion". It has threatened them with fines and blocking if they do not take action. The websites of the independent TV channel *Dozhd *and popular liberal radio station *Ekho Moskvy* have been blocked for alleged calls for extremism and violence, and "systematic spread of false information about the activities of the Russian military".
> _With additional reporting by Francis Scarr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine: Watching the war on Russian TV - a whole different story
> 
> 
> The war in Ukraine has led to outrage in the West, but in Russia TV viewers see a very different story.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _


On Twitter I have seen two angles of TV tower bombing. One angle shows a building behind the TV tower being bombed. The other angle makes it look like the actual TV tower being bombed.

You decide who is lying and who is telling the truth.

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## RescueRanger

RescueRanger said:


> But they have taken Irpin bridge which is the last town before Kyiv:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498999575243276291


Al Jazeera now also confirming this account that the Russian Army has captured Kherson:









Latest Ukraine updates: UNGA votes to demand Russian withdrawal


Russia-Ukraine news from March 2: UN General Assembly resolution condemns Russia for the invasion of Ukraine.




www.aljazeera.com

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## Smoke

NA71 said:


> Russians after 6th day of War could not achieve Air Superiority over Ukrainian Skies despite all the advantages they have....any particular reason?
> 
> CNN reporting heaviest air battle took place last night in which two Russian jets were destroyed....



CNN also says that Islam breeds terrorism.


Also, this is GOLD:

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## EvoluXon

RescueRanger said:


> The selective moral hypocrisy of the west:
> 
> View attachment 820064
> 
> View attachment 820065


I feel whatever Russia is doing ..tht shall be remembered as service to humanity .this world needs De-westification .. free from evil clutches of free-masonry west

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## NA71

*Ghost of Kiev* yet another Indian media inspired promotional propaganda initiated by CNN ... previously we have seen *Ghost of Kandahar *and* Ghosts of Afghanistan , Beast of Faluja *Etc....Americans are very funny.
​

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## Wood

The Eagle said:


> Putin explains earlier as what was wrong and ignored that resulted in attack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=665557294564505


If the Russians form a military alliances with Canada and Mexico, that does not give the US a right to invade Canada either. Ukraine is a sovereign territory, it is their right to choose. Putin does not get rights to make demands, he should instead make a request and let his cultural cousins to decide their course.

If Ukrainians keep NATO missiles in their land, then Russia reserves the right to keep targets in Ukraine at crosshairs. This is proportional deterrent

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## torik

Hello
I am new in this forum


xuxu1457 said:


> Allwinyay：
> 
> Before I went to sleep, my wife said to me: This Russia is such a bad country, If Ukraine wants to join Nato, it is their business and freedom, Russia has no right to intervene, this is just an excuse for Russia to invade Ukarine.
> 
> So I said nothing, I just went to the kitchen and took a knife to bedside, then I said: Let’s go to sleep.
> 
> My wife looked at me with her wide eyes: What the heck are you doing, sleeping with a knife?!?!
> 
> I said: No worry, let’s go to sleep. Beside, sleeping with a knife is none of your business and it is my freedom.
> 
> My wife said: How can I sleep when you are sleeping with a knife? What if you accidentally cut me?
> 
> I said: Well, You don’t even trust your own husband, how can you expect Russia to trust Ukraine? Me sleeping with a knife is like Ukraine joining the Nato.



Russia had a knife first. And cut Ukraine earlier twice or even more. Ukraine asked help from friends to get rid of aggressor who carries a knife. Russia replied "noone else can stab you" and stabbed Ukraine.

What a nice(!) excuse

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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> Correct.
> However, some countries, led by Washington, were too eager to grab Russia's natural resources, which are *truly *enormous. I believe if NATO had not been extended then Russia would not militarize to this extent again. I believe a post-Putin Russia would naturally join Europe albeit as a reduced state of Russia mostly to the west of Urals. The greatly expanded Russia we see now is a result of ruthless conquests from the CZars times and there is not much in common between Russia's far east and Russia's Muslim Caucasus regions with the Russia west of the Urals. This would have all sorted out given time. But some powers couldn't wait and now we see this very tragic blood bath.



Look I think Russia would never have accepted todays borders. They are simply too small for their ambitions. These borders are simply unacceptable for Russia and they will never stay in these borders. So there is nothing the west can do to stop Russia taking their land "back", that they lost in the Cold War. 

Now these borders are the borders of the Russian Empire, before USSR. But we are no longer living in the age of empires. So This is why we are having this war. Russia needs to figure this out. 

Lining up to buy toilet paper will help them realise it. Eventually. 

But the way things are going in Russia, they might not even need toilet paper soon because of the large number of muslims in the country. This is not reflected in the census data, but I can tell you Muslims in Russia are everywhere. 

So Russia faces an existential question about its future, Do they keep their colonies and allow muslims to infiltrate and take over slowly which will ultimately lead to a civil war between Russians and various non Russians, or do they let the colonies go and create an ethic country for the Russians. 

Putin is an imperialist and thinks Russia can absorb the Muslims and even ukranians. 

If this goes badly, and Ukraine starts hurting Russia and Russians get sick of having muslims around, they will get rid of Putin, get rid go the muslims by giving them land to just go away and become a normal European country that is just Russian. This is what NATO wants. 

Putins plan is a bit flawed, because Russia can not absorb Muslims, or Muslim culture, they will absorb Russia. And by the time the Russian imperialists figure this out it will be too late for them. Russia will not be the Russia that we know. 

If I was a Russian, I would Carve out a state for white Christian Russians, let go of my colonies (caucasus, central asia - But I would keep tartars as they are too integrated with Russians), and become a normal European Country. 

But we shall see what happens.

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## AZMwi

NotSure said:


> Can someone explain this to me? What is that?
> 
> Timestamp 7:44:


WTF is that


----------



## dbc

xuxu1457 said:


> Allwinyay：
> 
> Before I went to sleep, my wife said to me: This Russia is such a bad country, If Ukraine wants to join Nato, it is their business and freedom, Russia has no right to intervene, this is just an excuse for Russia to invade Ukarine.
> 
> So I said nothing, I just went to the kitchen and took a knife to bedside, then I said: Let’s go to sleep.
> 
> My wife looked at me with her wide eyes: What the heck are you doing, sleeping with a knife?!?!
> 
> I said: No worry, let’s go to sleep. Beside, sleeping with a knife is none of your business and it is my freedom.
> 
> My wife said: How can I sleep when you are sleeping with a knife? What if you accidentally cut me?
> 
> I said: Well, You don’t even trust your own husband, how can you expect Russia to trust Ukraine? Me sleeping with a knife is like Ukraine joining the Nato.



false equivalency in your parable. Your wife has starved, tortured and beaten you repeatedly. Taken your property and killed your siblings so I think you are justified in sleeping with a knife next to your bed.

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## nang2

Wood said:


> If the Russians form a military alliances with Canada and Mexico, that does not give the US a right to invade Canada either. Ukraine is a sovereign territory, it is their right to choose. Putin does not get rights to make demands, he should instead make a request and let his cultural cousins to decide their course.
> 
> If Ukrainians keep NATO missiles in their land, then Russia reserves the right to keep targets in Ukraine at crosshairs. This is proportional deterrent


Canada used to be the target for US invasion. Only the World Wars that brought US and UK together saved Canada.

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## Mohsin A

dBSPL said:


> Ukraine wants to order corvettes and submarines from Germany​2 MARCH 2022 47
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine wants to order corvettes and submarines from Germany
> The Ukrainian Ambassador in Berlin, Andriy Melnyk, said that his country wants to acquire corvettes and submarines from Germany. Speaking to the T-Online website, Ambassador stated that Ukraine intends to purchase many defence materials from Germany.
> Germany refused to donate defence materials to Ukraine for a long time. It also prevented other countries from transferring their systems to Ukraine for the same reason. A few days after the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Germany changed its policy and decided to send weapons to a country that was at war. This was the first time since the end of WW II.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Answering questions about Germany supplying arms to Ukraine, Ambassador Melnyk said, “You are very, very late, but hopefully not too late.” He continued, “It is not just about providing tactical help to Ukraine. All of our Partners should now be clear that we need to arm Ukraine to strengthen its defence capabilities. And Germany could play a central role in this. We want to order corvettes and submarines from German armaments companies. Concrete talks about this were impossible until a few days ago because of this political deadlock. Now I’m more confident.
> What else does Ukraine need from Germany?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I’m thinking of stationary air defence systems. Germany supplies these systems to Egypt, so why not to us? I take the Chancellor, who spoke of the turning point, at his word. This means that the turning point must also be felt in practice, which is why both of our countries should dare to make an actual new start in the armaments sector.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine wants to order corvettes and submarines from Germany | TurDef
> 
> 
> The Ukrainian Ambassador in Berlin, Andriy Melnyk, said that his country wants to acquire corvettes and submarines from Germany. Speaking to the T-Online website, Ambassador stated that Ukraine intends to purchase many defence materials from Germany.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.turdef.com



They won't need Submarines soon as it'll be a landlocked country due to Comedian Zulensky's policies

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## nang2

dbc said:


> false equivalency in your parable. Your wife has starved, tortured and beaten you repeatedly. Taken your property and killed your siblings so I think you are justified in sleeping with a knife next to your bed.


And his wife will simply kill him with that knife.

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## Avicenna

dbc said:


> false equivalency in your parable. Your wife has starved, tortured and beaten you repeatedly. Taken your property and killed your siblings so I think you are justified in sleeping with a knife next to your bed.



What would be the US response to China having a presence on its borders in 20 years?

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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499036119152963584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499016901963440128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499020076913250309
Notice: There is a score to settle here specifically in Mariupol as the Russian ethnics suffered a painful defeat in Mariupol at the hands of Azov in 2014 who commited alot of rapes and destruction along the way and even killed civilians hence all the Russian pain in this war is tied into Mariupol and Azov

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## Meengla

thetutle said:


> If I was a Russian, I would Carve out a state for white Christian Russians, let go of my colonies (caucasus, central asia - But I would keep tartars as they are too integrated with Russians), and become a normal European Country.



Thank you for educating me about the Muslim aspect of Russia.
For sure, Russia under Putin is _missing _the imperial 'glory'. But that glory is gone and never coming back. Another empire bit the dust in our lifetime. But I don't think Putin is stupid enough to try to take back the Baltics or Poland: Russia simply doesn't have the resources, especially to take on NATO members. This is a myth propagated by the Western media and a myth which the American Colonel is trying to dispel--but oddly enough his video as posted above has found not much of an audience even on a major channel like Fox. I see another 'manufacturing consent' a la Chomsky going on in America about yet another war and for anyone to even try to project alternate viewpoint becomes treasonous or worse ignored. 

As to the quoted part, that's what I foresee Russia to become and I have said that several times before in this thread when I saw mostly a country west of the Urals. This all would have sorted out on its own given time! After Putin, at best there is a Medvedev and at worst another Yeltsin. But some powers couldn't wait for that to happen.

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## nang2

ADIL SHERDIL said:


> Atleast during this war many thing are cleared. Western Media has shown its true colour. They have tried to make this war into crusade and according to them if its Asia or Africa then people dying is fine but when it comes to blonde hair and blue eyes then its a tragedy.
> If US invade other countries on false pretext (Like Iraq ) then they are not answerable although they turned a country into ruins just because they didnt like SADDAM who was once their pal.
> Western made huge claims to Ukraine but in their hour of need there support is no where to be found while entire Europe is buying Gas from Russia.
> The hypocrisy is at the highest level with these racist nations.


Hypocrisy is the natural symptom when someone embraces something that is above him. He has to invent all sorts of craps to justify his own inadequacy.



Titanium100 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499036119152963584


Soviet did that with Berlin.


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## xuxu1457

In fact, if you ask the hearts of Americans, Americans also think so. If Mexico had formed a military alliance with Russia, the Americans would have gone to war. This is why Biden said at the beginning that he would not send troops, but that sanctions would be in line with the interests of the United States. The international reality is still power politics. When Russia attacked Ukraine, the United States also bombed Somalia. Who said that the United States violated the sovereignty of Somalia? Because we all know it's out of control.
Big countries and small countries have different ideas， The United States was in the Cuban crisis. Russia is also unlikely to concede in Finland, Ukraine and Belarus, and it also needs a buffer zone. China will not let Vietnam and North Korea loss of the status of a buffer state. 

NATO is Europe and the United States in the expansion of their own buffer zone, the buffer zone has been pushed to the opponent's doorstep.

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## Ali_Baba

Ukraine Mourns Death Of Former Su-27 Flanker Display Pilot Col. Oksanchenko Shot Down Near Kyiv


Col. Oksanchenko, considered one of the world's best display pilots, posthumously awarded the title of "Hero of Ukraine" by President Zelensky. Ukrainian




theaviationist.com
 




"*Oksanchenko lost his life on Friday night when his jet was shot down by Russian S-400 Triumph Air Defence Missile System although this has not been officially confirmed."*

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## QWECXZ

dbc said:


> false equivalency in your parable. Your wife has starved, tortured and beaten you repeatedly. Taken your property and killed your siblings so I think you are justified in sleeping with a knife next to your bed.


I get your point, but that works only if his wife can't beat the crap out of him again if he dares to sleep with a knife in the bed.
And he certainly shouldn't listen to his neighbors and powerful friends of his neighbors when they say they will stop his wife from beating him again.

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## Wood

nang2 said:


> Canada used to be the target for US invasion. Only the World Wars that brought US and UK together saved Canada.


Thankfully, we do not live in the age of imperial colonies anymore.. right?


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## Titanium100

DPR forces show the flags some Azov battlion left behind after being driven out of village 10 kilometers from Mariupol. 

Outskirts of Mariupol Road to Mariupol ~ 5-10 km before the first district where there were clashes today and DPR units displaying the first trophies of Ukraine's far-right sector The mayor of Mariupols told press officials in a call


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499038782053662720

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## SIPRA

Mohsin A said:


> They won't need Submarines soon as it'll be a landlocked country due to Comedian Zulensky's policies



They can install wheels on submarines, and use them as armour.

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## Wergeland 2.0

Mohsin A said:


> They won't need Submarines soon as it'll be a landlocked country due to Comedian Zulensky's policies



Day by day the Ukrainian government seems more like a farce. If these are the best people NATO could muster then someone obviously havent done a good enough job.

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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499038739103899648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499038682489270272

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## Clutch

ADIL SHERDIL said:


> Atleast during this war many thing are cleared. Western Media has shown its true colour. They have tried to make this war into crusade and according to them if its Asia or Africa then people dying is fine but when it comes to blonde hair and blue eyes then its a tragedy.
> If US invade other countries on false pretext (Like Iraq ) then they are not answerable although they turned a country into ruins just because they didnt like SADDAM who was once their pal.
> Western made huge claims to Ukraine but in their hour of need there support is no where to be found while entire Europe is buying Gas from Russia.
> The hypocrisy is at the highest level with these racist nations.



Bingo. Hopefully Pakistani Neoliberals who feed off the Western Human Rights religion now realize their false gods are all BS.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499039421324316676


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## Clutch

Titanium100 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499038739103899648
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499038682489270272



Like the Americas did to Fallujah?

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## Titanium100



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## Clutch

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499039421324316676



Interestingly the Russians are not making a spectacle of captured Ukrainians.... 
The Ukrainian keep confirming their Nazi roots.

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## nang2

Wood said:


> Thankfully, we do not live in the age of imperial colonies anymore.. right?


Yes and for that we have to thank USA. To dismantle British colonial power, USA was actively against imperial colonization. For themselves, they have to resort to more subtle colonization, such as through finance and monetary manipulation. But at least, the country as a form remains.

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## jamahir

Smoke said:


> CNN also says that Islam breeds terrorism.
> 
> 
> Also, this is GOLD:



This Bill Maher fellow, so poisonous, he had fans among whom there was a PDF Indian Hindutvadi member with that name ( no surprise ). He seems to have been deleted from the forum.

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## Clutch

Titanium100 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499036119152963584
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499016901963440128
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499020076913250309
> Notice: There is a score to settle here specifically in Mariupol as the Russian ethnics suffered a painful defeat in Mariupol at the hands of Azov in 2014 who commited alot of rapes and destruction along the way and even killed civilians hence all the Russian pain in this war is tied into Mariupol and Azov

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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> Thank you for educating me about the Muslim aspect of Russia.
> For sure, Russia under Putin is _missing _the imperial 'glory'. But that glory is gone and never coming back. Another empire bit the dust in our lifetime. But I don't think Putin is stupid enough to try to take back the Baltics or Poland: Russia simply doesn't have the resources, especially to take on NATO members. This is a myth propagated by the Western media and a myth which the American Colonel is trying to dispel--but oddly enough his video as posted above has found not much of an audience even on a major channel like Fox. I see another 'manufacturing consent' a la Chomsky going on in America about yet another war and for anyone to even try to project alternate viewpoint becomes treasonous or worse ignored.


They probably wont take Baltics yet. But they will try to "free" the rusisna living there at some point. For now they were satisfied with the low hanging fruit. But Ukraine is is not easy anymore. and it will get progressively harder. So they might take some part of the Baltics in the future. Or they will try. OR they might not. Its not that important for them. 

Kazakstan they down need yet as its basically a colony. Yes Ethnic Russians find it hard to live there and a leaving, but Russia thinks this is ok as long as the control their President. A bit Like Chechnya. I dot think A Russian can safely walk the street there, but Putin is ok with that because they give him people to throw in the meat grinder and any oil if they find it.

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## Wergeland 2.0

Clutch said:


> Interestingly the Russians are not making a spectacle of captured Ukrainians....
> The Ukrainian keep confirming their Nazi roots.



You are not the only one to notice this.
If you look beyond the propaganda which is meant for feeding prepubertal kids, one becomes aware of the glaring differences between the two armies. Ukrainian Army have been behaving very unprofessional. Its UN ambassador behaviour remind of a indian tv anchor, Arnab Goswami i think is his name.

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## HydNizam

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498983242363551747


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## Titanium100

Looks like Ukrainian army and Para-military in Mariupol are ready to embrace martyrdom and fight to the last man standing and last blood. This is gonna be a legendary battle regardless of the outcomes.

*Mariupol. We are alive and legitimate ✌️ There is no light, no water and no normal connection in many areas. But we hold on! Mariupol is Ukraine !!! 🇺🇦 Pray for us! -Translated*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498989575762440196

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## Flight of falcon

Watching CNN and some Ukrainian parliamentarian begging shamelessly for Americans to intervene. 

Perhaps she did not watch TV when Americans abandoned and simply left shooting from Afghanistan. When is the world going to learn their lesson? 

She and the host agreed that the Russians have invaded their country and they have a right to fight back......wasnt this the case in Iraq and Afghanistan as well?????why were we crying when our soldiers were dying there? wasn't that the right of the local population to fight back against the occupation?
How is this any different now?


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## nang2

Flight of falcon said:


> Watching CNN and some Ukrainian parliamentarian begging shamelessly for Americans to intervene.
> 
> Perhaps she did not watch TV when Americans abandoned and simply left shooting from Afghanistan. When is the world going to learn their lesson?
> 
> She and the host agreed that the Russians have invaded their country and they have a right to fight back......wasnt this the case in Iraq and Afghanistan as well?????why were we crying when our soldiers were dying there? wasn't that the right of the local population to fight back against the occupation?
> How is this any different now?


The difference is that she cannot feel for Iraqis and Afghans. Human empathy has a short range.

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## Wergeland 2.0

jamahir said:


> This Bill Maher fellow, so poisonous, he had fans among whom there was a PDF Indian Hindutvadi member with that name ( no surprise ). He seems to have been deleted from the forum.



This is the poison the american media has been feeding its populace for well over 20 years.

The zionist Sam Harris hides behind new Atheism when he dehumanize palestinians and muslims in order to garner support for the Israeli Mass killings of Palestinians. Harris is of course a Zionist Jew himself. The same with Bill Maher.

Now after 20 years of anti-muslim propaganda America try to tell the world that it is China who is bad and opresses muslims.

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## thetutle

Titanium100 said:


> I agree all the blue will eventually be taken by the Russians after a furious fight thru out Ukraine for months but my issues is that I wanna safe the western portion of Ukraine from further Russian attacks by enforcing status quo for atleast 2 decades and rearming the western portion of Ukraine. Either Uk or Germany will have to first enter via peacekeeping to separate the 2 new states then sign a defense treaty with Ukraine this will keep Russia out from further incursions and let Ukraine rebuild again and let her live to fight another day... Once Russia exceeds a certain limit Germany or UK has to quickly deploy forces into Ukraine and basically once Russia crosses over that blue line an Incursion has to occur from the polish side. Put in 150.000 German forces and then there will be negotiations settle for the western part of Ukraine



No NATO army will openly enter any part of Ukraine. That would be the end of them.

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## 8888888888888

Titanium100 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499036119152963584
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499016901963440128
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499020076913250309
> Notice: There is a score to settle here specifically in Mariupol as the Russian ethnics suffered a painful defeat in Mariupol at the hands of Azov in 2014 who commited alot of rapes and destruction along the way and even killed civilians hence all the Russian pain in this war is tied into Mariupol and Azov


That’s pretty much how Russia deal with resistance cities, just flatten it and kill most of anyone and show others that surrender is the best option.

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## SIPRA

Russia is going quite soft in this campaign, and that is a good thing, as, otherwise, human misery would have risen to a colossal scale.


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## OldTwilight

Ukraine had 320,000 military personnel + police + paramilitary ....
how they are falling in every front ?!

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## Titanium100

Apparently there is a wanted PKK member who somehow found a hiding place amongst the Azov battlion in Mariupol area and have been nesting amongst them for years now after fleeing from Turkish MIT radars and found a hiding place in an unexpected place.. I guess going to places people won't assume hiding works after all

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## 8888888888888

Clutch said:


> Like the Americas did to Fallujah?


Didn’t US left that city to the resistance fighters?


----------



## OldTwilight

and why Ukrainians don't dare too attack to Russia main land !?


they already acting as who lost the war and no hope of resistance

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## Titanium100

OldTwilight said:


> Ukraine had 320,000 military personnel + police + paramilitary ....
> how they are falling in every front ?!



War is far from over and Russia could get expelled here and face attrition battle

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## QWECXZ

OldTwilight said:


> and why Ukrainians don't dare too attack to Russia main land !?
> 
> 
> they already acting as who lost the war and no hope of resistance


Dude, they can't even repel or slow down Russia's advances in their territory. Attack where?
Whatever they have now, they are using it to defend themselves, which is what any sane person under tremendous pressure of invasion by the world's 2nd most powerful army would do.

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## nang2

8888888888888 said:


> That’s pretty much how Russia deal with resistance cities, just flatten it and kill most of anyone and show others that surrender is the best option.


It was Mongol army's strategy, too.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Who stands against - or WITH - Putin? Map shows who backs invasion


Many countries have refused to condemn the invasion which has already cost the lives of hundreds of civilians, deciding to preserve their own historic or trade links with the world's largest nation.




www.dailymail.co.uk





Pakistan again ..


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## SIPRA

OldTwilight said:


> and why Ukrainians don't dare too attack to Russia main land !?



They are currently busy and occupied in making fake images and videos.

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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499047964878290952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499045962748203013

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## thetutle

FuturePAF said:


> A great compilation of some of the racist remarks by some journalists. This was also an aspect of why the west helped Bosnians and Kosovars during the Yugoslav wars of the 90s; the fact that they we’re white people. So it is indicative of a systematic own group preference in the culture, that it comes out so easily;


I don't think it's a major reason. They helped but they could have done a lot more a lot sooner. 

Syrians are pretty white to me. Assad is whiter than most white people I know and his wife is fully white as far an I am concerned. And they are doing the opposite of helping them. 

It plays some role, but nothing major I think. The rohyngya are the opposite of white and there is genuine sympathy for them and desire to help. I personally think Rohingya are very attractive people.


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## TheNoob

Titanium100 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499047964878290952
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499045962748203013



Damn the blatant propaganda reeks from the words. 

We're truly in the middle of a full-blown 5th gen war.

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## nang2

thetutle said:


> I don't think it's a major reason. They helped but they could have done a lot more a lot sooner.
> 
> Syrians are pretty white to me. Assad is whiter than most white people I know and his wife is fully white as far an I am concerned. And they are doing the opposite of helping them.
> 
> It plays some role, but nothing major I think. The rohyngya are the opposite of white and there is genuine sympathy for them and desire to help. I personally think Rohingya are very attractive people.


Race is not simply defined by the skin color. It is also defined by culture. Having the same culture makes people feel more comfortable with each other. Without that knowledge, seeing another person with the same skin color may fill his head with an assumption that they have the same culture, which leads more amicable interaction. However, when that assumption is debunked, he goes back to be just a stranger.

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## Meengla

The latest picture. Interesting observation about Asia. Looks like bloody sieges lie ahead and Grozny 2 planned. And Ukraine may lose all sea access. At this point, if Russia throws in all it has, then Ukraine very likely becoming a landlocked country for the foreseeable future. Those submarines would need wings to be useful

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## Flight of falcon

TheNoob said:


> Damn the blatant propaganda reeks from the words.
> 
> We're truly in the middle of a full-blown 5th gen war.




If it wasn't so funny, fake and low level I would take all this propaganda seriously.


By the way isn't this against Geneva convention to photograph, interview and torture prisoners...

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## OldTwilight

QWECXZ said:


> Dude, they can't even repel or slow down Russia's advances in their territory. Attack where?
> Whatever they have now, they are using it to defend themselves, which is what any sane person under tremendous pressure of invasion by the world's 2nd most powerful army would do.


dude , attacking main land and cities of invader is one of classical ways of disrupting invaders focus ...

and if Ukraine have any scud missile , they should lunch those at Moscow and kremlin in retaliation .... anything less than this , mean they already accepted defeat , so they should surrender and don't wast their human resources and infrastructures ...

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## R Wing

The Eagle said:


> In the same world calling for everything against Russia, this is happening since long.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498703716588965893
> Speaks volume of priorities for US/West HR police.



Even worse are the Pakistanis who fall for this hypocrisy. Unforgivable. 

The West has its reasons for these ridiculous double-standards --- but people from Muslim nations (and other places on the wrong end of American hegemony) also buying into these veneers hook, line, and sinker is especially painful.

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## QWECXZ

thetutle said:


> I don't think it's a major reason. They helped but they could have done a lot more a lot sooner.
> 
> Syrians are pretty white to me. Assad is whiter than most white people I know and his wife is fully white as far an I am concerned. And they are doing the opposite of helping them.
> 
> It plays some role, but nothing major I think. The rohyngya are the opposite of white and there is genuine sympathy for them and desire to help. I personally think Rohingya are very attractive people.


I suppose you're a Bosnian. As a Bosnian, you probably know that it goes deeper than just skin color kind of "racism", and yes, I am loosing racism loosely here. It has a religious element to it as well. The Europeans dislike Muslims. Yes, Assad is white but because he's a Muslim that doesn't count.

In fact, xenophobia is usually accompanied by religious bigotry, even when Protestants fought Catholics.

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## nang2

OldTwilight said:


> dude , attacking main land and cities of invader is one of classical ways of disrupting invaders focus ...
> 
> and if Ukraine have any scud missile , they should lunch those at Moscow and kremlin in retaliation .... anything less than this , mean they already accepted defeat , so they should surrender and don't wast their human resources and infrastructures ...


Then they wouldn't play the victim card anymore. In addition, NATO is a defense pack, not an offense pack. Though this kind of offense is really a defensive move, it may not look good to NATO, which doesn't really appreciate aggressive members.

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## Titanium100

OldTwilight said:


> dude , attacking main land and cities of invader is one of classical ways of disrupting invaders focus ...
> 
> and if Ukraine have any scud missile , they should lunch those at Moscow and kremlin in retaliation .... anything less than this , mean they already accepted defeat , so they should surrender and don't wast their human resources and infrastructures ...



No broski..

1. The scud missiles won't really deter Russia or do more then limited damage like one house in the suburbs etc etc

2. This will only force Russia take extreme measures and ground levelling policies hence they will end up paying heavy price for an assualt that didn't do anything whatsoever

Fighting them conventionally is the best choice here and creating a battle of attrition.. chopping off Russia's resources, Manpower and will to continue

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## dbc

Avicenna said:


> What would be the US response to China having a presence on its borders in 20 years?



Its like asking The Terminator how he feels about Count Dracula moving into his neighbourhood.  There is nothing Dracula can do to hurt a T800.

If the US continues to maintain it's lead against her adversaries in military, economy and technology - there is no cause for concern, is there? Any hurt your adversary can visit upon you......if you can return it a thousand fold then we have established a sound security paradigm.

Russia needs to focus on establishing itself, its economy, its lost technology leadership...invading its neighbour isn't going to make Russia more secure.

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## _Nabil_

thetutle said:


> I don't think it's a major reason. They helped but they could have done a lot more a lot sooner.
> 
> Syrians are pretty white to me. Assad is whiter than most white people I know and his wife is fully white as far an I am concerned. And they are doing the opposite of helping them.
> 
> It plays some role, but nothing major I think. The rohyngya are the opposite of white and there is genuine sympathy for them and desire to help. I personally think Rohingya are very attractive people.


Are you dumb or playing the dumb? obviously by the word White it's meant European, westerns, Christians, Jews, .....


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## nang2

dbc said:


> If the US continues to maintain it's lead against her adversaries in military, economy and technology - there is no cause for concern, is there?


Whose concern?


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## QWECXZ

OldTwilight said:


> dude , attacking main land and cities of invader is one of classical ways of disrupting invaders focus ...
> 
> and if Ukraine have any scud missile , they should lunch those at Moscow and kremlin in retaliation .... anything less than this , mean they already accepted defeat , so they should surrender and don't wast their human resources and infrastructures ...


How would they do that? Russia has already invaded most of the east and south of Ukraine.

The UAF is not capable of flying over Russian territory. Not even an iota of chance to even approach Russia's airspace without getting intercepted or shot down.
The best they can do is to fire Tochka missiles and hope that it would hit somewhere because the CEP is not that good. And I believe they did it once, but if they resort to this pitiful tactic which has a high chance of not hitting its target and would most probably lead only to civilian casaulties, assuming that it won't get intercepted by S-300, S-400 and S-500, Russia will literally bomb them to the stone age without mercy. Russia is an extremely large country and Ukraine has only short range missiles if I'm not wrong. Meanwhile, Moscow is like 800 km far from Ukraine's borders. So, there's very little, if anything, that Ukraine can do.

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## OldTwilight

nang2 said:


> Then they wouldn't play the victim card anymore. In addition, NATO is a defense pack, not an offense pack. Though this kind of offense is really a defensive move, it may not look good to NATO, which doesn't really appreciate aggressive members.


They are not part of NATO


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## Titanium100

QWECXZ said:


> How would they do that? Russia has already invaded most of the east and south of Ukraine.
> 
> The UAF is not capable of flying over Russian territory. Not even an iota of chance to even approach Russia's airspace without getting intercepted or shot down.
> The best they can do is to fire Tochka missiles. And I believe they did it once, but if they resort to this pitiful tactic, assuming that it won't get intercepted by S300, S400 and S500, Russia will literally bomb them to the stone age. Russia is an extremely large country and Ukraine has only short range missiles if I'm not wrong.



I have to correct you there. UAV's can access Russia's airspace at will and there air-defence systems are not as good as the Western systems that is just a fact. S-400 is an overhyped dud including SU-57


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## nang2

OldTwilight said:


> They are not part of NATO


Not yet but they are applying. So, consider this as an interview with NATO.


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## OldTwilight

Titanium100 said:


> No broski..
> 
> 1. The scud missiles won't really deter Russia or do more then limited damage like one house in the suburbs etc etc
> 
> 2. This will only force Russia take extreme measures and ground levelling policies hence they will end up paying heavy price for an assualt that didn't do anything whatsoever
> 
> Fighting them conventionally is the best choice here and creating a battle of attrition.. chopping off Russia's resources, Manpower and will to continue


The missile has tremendous psychological effects on Russians ....

They can target military base in Moscow....



simple , if the are afraid wrath of Russia , then they should surrounder immediately and don't turn they country to wastland and act as canon fodder for NATO


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## Titanium100

nang2 said:


> Then they wouldn't play the victim card anymore. In addition, NATO is a defense pack, not an offense pack. Though this kind of offense is really a defensive move, it may not look good to NATO, which doesn't really appreciate aggressive members.



NATO defensive pact? Come one mann.. They are anything but defensive pact but a flatout bully for the last 50 years and one of the biggest bullies. It is an offensive pact.

Many Layman in here think Israel stands because of Israel They have been shouting at the wrong tree and also some even think China is sparing Taiwan? The Israel-Taiwan situation is the same they are both being shielded. NATO is why China has not taken Taiwan.. Also the so-called 6 days war was fake and ended as soon as it started with one phone call from washtingon none of these countries waging the 6 days war were dumb enough to take on NATO... They just rolled out their tanks and basically just rolled in again


----------



## Daylamite Warrior

Lehrasap said:


> I already told you I cannot start a religious debate upon slavery on this forum.
> 
> As far as the abolition of slavery is concerned, then at no point in the 1400 years of history of Islam it came anywhere near to abolition. But the numbers of slaves only increased under the Islamic rule, right from the beginning.
> 
> Here is the complete TIMELINE of abolition of Slavery. There were almost 200 notable movements against slavery in human history, but NOT even a SINGLE of them came from Islam and its followers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Timeline of abolition of slavery and serfdom - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


Sorry but Islam in 7th Century began the idea of freeing slaves for free, fast forward 1000 years and the world witnessed the worst case of animalistic slavery from the colonial powers. Legally aboloshing slavery doesn't justify the fact that the west had the worst record of slavery and American still had slavery in living memory, long after Muslims aboloshed slavery "legally". Islam started all of this. Never compare a Muslim slave with a European. Muslim slaves had always lived better quality of life than European freemen.


----------



## OldTwilight

QWECXZ said:


> How would they do that? Russia has already invaded most of the east and south of Ukraine.
> 
> The UAF is not capable of flying over Russian territory. Not even an iota of chance to even approach Russia's airspace without getting intercepted or shot down.
> The best they can do is to fire Tochka missiles and hope that it would hit somewhere because the CEP is not that good. And I believe they did it once, but if they resort to this pitiful tactic which has a high chance of not hitting its target and would most probably lead only to civilian casaulties, assuming that it won't get intercepted by S-300, S-400 and S-500, Russia will literally bomb them to the stone age without mercy. Russia is an extremely large country and Ukraine has only short range missiles if I'm not wrong. Meanwhile, Moscow is like 800 km far from Ukraine's borders. So, there's very little, if anything, that Ukraine can do.


dude , I was talking about ballistic missiles ....


----------



## nang2

Titanium100 said:


> NATO defensive pact? Come one mann.. They are anything but defensive pact but a flatout bully for the last 50 years and one of the biggest bullies.
> 
> Many Layman in here think Israel stands because of Israel They have been shouting at the wrong and also some even think China is sparing Taiwan? The Israel-Taiwan situation is the same they are both being shielded


OK. Let me correct that. NATO is a defensive pact, which only allows USA to be the offensive one or any country encouraged by USA. I don't think other members, particularly Germany, would like to see some other idiotic member get all of them into a war that they don't want.

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## OldTwilight

nang2 said:


> Not yet but they are applying. So, consider this as an interview with NATO.


At this rate ,there won't be any Ukrain in next 2 month and Im sure eve if Russians are forced to withdraw , the they would destroy all Ukraine infrastructure .....

a lose_lose situation for Ukraine

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## Titanium100

nang2 said:


> OK. Let me correct that. NATO is a defensive pact, which only allows USA to be the offensive one or any country encouraged by USA. I don't think other members, particularly Germany, would like to see some other idiotic member get all of them into a war that they don't want.



No bro NATO is a large wolf pack that is absolutely dangerous and it has an alpha hence they follow the Alpha if he wages war they all go out and fight if they need scale to it etc etc. They are militarily hazardous to many countries or they present an existential threat and they present themselves as defense but most of their wars is actully offense and never fought a defense fight because nobody attacked

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## nang2

Daylamite Warrior said:


> Sorry but Islam in 7th Century began the idea of freeing slaves for free, fast forward 1000 years and the world witnessed the worst case of animalistic slavery from the colonial powers. Legally aboloshing slavery doesn't justify the fact that the west had the worst record of slavery and American still had slavery in living memory, long after Muslims aboloshed slavery "legally". Islam started all of this. Never compare a Muslim slave with a European. Muslim slaves had always lived better quality of life than European freemen.


You may want to check the history of slavery in Ottoman empire, which lasted decades after America has abolished it. Maybe that memory was not living because Muslims choose to ignore it.



Titanium100 said:


> No bro NATO is a large wolf pack that is absolutely dangerous and it has an alpha hence they follow the Alpha if he wages war they all go out and fight if they need scale to it etc etc. They are militarily hazardous to many countries or they present an existential threat


Well, when the alpha waged the war on Iraq, many members didn't follow.

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## Lehrasap

Daylamite Warrior said:


> Sorry but Islam in 7th Century began the idea of freeing slaves for free, fast forward 1000 years and the world witnessed the worst case of animalistic slavery from the colonial powers. Legally aboloshing slavery doesn't justify the fact that the west had the worst record of slavery and American still had slavery in living memory, long after Muslims aboloshed slavery "legally". Islam started all of this. Never compare a Muslim slave with a European. Muslim slaves had always lived better quality of life than European freemen.



I am sorry, but you could not ask me to indulge in a religious debate with you regarding Islam here, while you have the liberty to say all that you want, while I have already got the warning from admins.
Therefore, if you really want to discuss, then you have to face me at any neutral place where we both could bring our proof.


----------



## nang2

OldTwilight said:


> At this rate ,there won't be any Ukrain in next 2 month and Im sure eve if Russians are forced to withdraw , the they would destroy all Ukraine infrastructure .....
> 
> a lose_lose situation for Ukraine


My bet is the Russians will leave the western Ukraine largely alone. You are right that if Russians are forced to withdraw, Ukrainians can kiss their infrastructure good-bye.

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## Titanium100

nang2 said:


> You may want to check the history of slavery in Ottoman empire, which lasted decades after America has abolished it. Maybe that memory was not living because Muslims choose to ignore it.
> 
> 
> Well, when the alpha waged the war on Iraq, many members didn't follow.



Because it was at much lower scale but when need arises for a bigger scale they will all throw their entire armed forces on the table in such conflicts hence they are extremely dangerous from a militarily point of view...

In order to clash with them and take it from them you need scale and mass alliance large enough to collide with them right at the center of the octagon.. But lone wolves stand no chance whatsoever against them militarily


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## nang2

Titanium100 said:


> Because it was at much lower scale but when need arises for a bigger scale they will all throw their entire armed forces on the table in such conflicts hence they are extremely dangerous from a militarily point of view


All wars start from lower scale, even world wars. It is up to how daring the alpha can escalate the offense, which also requires the proper response from the antagonist, without whose cooperation, it will remain to be at the lower scale.


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## thetutle

QWECXZ said:


> I suppose you're a Bosnian. As a Bosnian, you probably know that it goes deeper than just skin color kind of "racism", and yes, I am loosing racism loosely here. It has a religious element to it as well. The Europeans dislike Muslims. Yes, Assad is white but because he's a Muslim that doesn't count.
> 
> In fact, xenophobia is usually accompanied by religious bigotry, even when Protestants fought Catholics.



I dont think so. I have been all over Europe and America. I know how people treat me, if you're a white guy, you can walk around dressed in turbans and people will just think you're a bit eccentric or strange. If you're really into islam they would think of you as they think of a white communist or a hippie, i.e. someone that has just lost their way. They might even hate your ideology or religion, but at the end of the day, you're a white guy. 

If you're an African in Europe or even better, in America, you can dress like a college professor and wear a 6 foot cross around your neck, you still get shot but the police. 

Im sure someone tried this for a joke but if some 6 foot blonde guy dressed like an Arab walked around a nice neighbourhood and a black guy walked around in a suit, the chances are somebody will call the police because the black guy is out of place and looks suspicious. 

People will assume the white guy is going to a fancy dress party and the Black guy is trying to kill them. Thats the world we live in.

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## RescueRanger

Ali_Baba said:


> Who stands against - or WITH - Putin? Map shows who backs invasion
> 
> 
> Many countries have refused to condemn the invasion which has already cost the lives of hundreds of civilians, deciding to preserve their own historic or trade links with the world's largest nation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan again ..


Ask yourself who had a vote in the UNSC and abstained and is conveniently missing from that map...

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## Paul2

thetutle said:


> Kazakstan they down need yet as its basically a colony. Yes Ethnic Russians find it hard to live there and a leaving, but Russia thinks this is ok as long as the control their President. A bit Like Chechnya. I dot think A Russian can safely walk the street there, but Putin is ok with that because they give him people to throw in the meat grinder and any oil if they find it.



Kazakhstan is messy country, just like Arabs. Even if Russians will invade them, they will kill them just so they can come back to fighting each others.

This is why Russians pulled out so early in January.

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## jamahir

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> The zionist Sam Harris hides behind new Atheism when he dehumanize palestinians and muslims in order to garner support for the Israeli Mass killings of Palestinians. Harris is of course a Zionist Jew himself.



So he is a fake atheist like Christopher Hitchens who Google says influenced Harris and both seem to have had the same hate against Islam.

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## R Wing

Clutch said:


> Bingo. Hopefully Pakistani Neoliberals who feed off the Western Human Rights religion now realize their false gods are all BS.



If only they would be so conscious of their own hypocrisy... even when it stares them in the face.

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## Stealth

Western world and this western ************************* media literally provoked Putin. From the beginning, Russians avoided mass casualties and collateral and that was clearly evident from the Russian strategy but this ***** western media continuously provoking Russia by showing that Russians are failing in Ukraine. Now it seems like Russian forces got freehand from Putin the way they end the entire Mariupol with in just 10 - 15 hours (with non-stop bombing)

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## QWECXZ

OldTwilight said:


> dude , I was talking about ballistic missiles ....


I already answered you, dude. There's nothing that Ukraine can do to Moscow.

First of all, they have only SRBMs. So, Moscow is safe from their missiles.
Secondly, their missiles at best have inertial guidance system which puts their CEP at above 100m. So, again, it will be of no value but to terrorize Russian citizens. And Russians can just carpet bomb Kiev and call it a day if they want to. Russians are acting really merciful now. Nobody would like the Russians to get merciless.
Thirdly, Russia is protected by a very dense multi-layered network of air defense systems that are well-prepared for a few scarce shots. Ukraine cannot overwhelm Moscow's AD.
Fourthly, who in his sane mind would dare to target the capital of the world's largest nuclear power?



OldTwilight said:


> At this rate ,there won't be any Ukrain in next 2 month and Im sure eve if Russians are forced to withdraw , the they would destroy all Ukraine infrastructure .....
> 
> a lose_lose situation for Ukraine


The war will be over way sooner than 2 months.

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## R Wing

Titanium100 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499047964878290952
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499045962748203013


LOL

Grow up, man.

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## Aesterix

From twitter. 
Claimed to be J-10C cockpit.

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## Daylamite Warrior

Lehrasap said:


> I am sorry, but you could not ask me to indulge in a religious debate with you regarding Islam here, while you have the liberty to say all that you want, while I have already got the warning from admins.
> Therefore, if you really want to discuss, then you have to face me at any neutral place where we both could bring our proof.


Yeah, a non-Muslim forum is not a neutral place, is it?! Unless you want to meet up in person, which is dangerous...for you. Heed the warning if youve been warned though.



nang2 said:


> You may want to check the history of slavery in Ottoman empire, which lasted decades after America has abolished it. Maybe that memory was not living because Muslims choose to ignore it.


Ottoman Empire was hardly an Islamic state, but slaves were treated better in Ottoman times than the condition of freemen in Europe. I think you have your timelines wrong, there were still slaves in America long after Ottoman empire was dismantled. So I invite you to check your history. You will never catch me comparing Islamic slavery, which was benevolent and necessary, compared to colonial slavery. Nothing you can say will change my mind, so let's agree to disgaree.

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## Pappa Alpha

RescueRanger said:


> Ask yourself who had a vote in the UNSC and abstained and is conveniently missing from that map...


Goes to show that we are literally dealing with the devil on our Eastern border

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## nang2

Daylamite Warrior said:


> Ottoman Empire was hardly an Islamic state, but slaves were treated better in Ottoman times than the condition of freemen in Europe. I think you have your timelines wrong, there were still slaves in America long after Ottoman empire was dismantled. So I invite you to check your history. You will never catch me comparing Islamic slavery, which was benevolent and necessary, compared to colonial slavery. Nothing you can say will change my mind, so let's agree to disgaree.


I am a bit lazy so I just share the wiki link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave...re#Decline_and_suppression_of_Ottoman_slavery


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## Titanium100

nang2 said:


> All wars start from lower scale, even world wars. It is up to how daring the alpha can escalate the offense, which also requires the proper response from the antagonist, without whose cooperation, it will remain to be at the lower scale.



I am confident NATO will be defeated not in the short term future someone will eventually take it from them and figure them out. Planning a war for them also has to include a ridiculous large scale proportion planning. The capability to field a whopping 100-200m fighting force in multiple arena at once and from all axes. It would without a doubt become the biggest war in human history in scale but the key element is to bring it to them invading from the mediterranean, Atlantic ocean, From the Actic, Thru the eastern flank via Russia, thru Balkan, Greece, Italy, Iberia etc etc in one proned multiple offensive launches it would be an unprecedented scale never seen or heard before ever.. The Goal should be to entirely annex whole of West Europe within 6-7 years from top to bottom..


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## QWECXZ

thetutle said:


> I dont think so. I have been all over Europe and America. I know how people treat me, if you're a white guy, you can walk around dressed in turbans and people will just think you're a bit eccentric or strange. If you're really into islam they would think of you as they think of a white communist or a hippie, i.e. someone that has just lost their way. They might even hate your ideology or religion, but at the end of the day, you're a white guy.
> 
> If you're an African in Europe or even better, in America, you can dress like a college professor and wear a 6 foot cross around your neck, you still get shot but the police.
> 
> Im sure someone tried this for a joke but if some 6 foot blonde guy dressed like an Arab walked around a nice neighbourhood and a black guy walked around in a suit, the chances are somebody will call the police because the black guy is out of place and looks suspicious.
> 
> People will assume the white guy is going to a fancy dress party and the Black guy is trying to kill them. Thats the world we live in.


I get your point but that's because they can't tell you're a Muslim. They assume that all Muslims are colored people by default.

You should see what kind of nasty comments people leave on the social media of European women that have converted to Islam or wear hijab. Anti-Muslim sentiments are at a high ever since 9/11. And it's even worse when you have been born a Muslim.


----------



## Daylamite Warrior

nang2 said:


> I am a bit lazy so I just share the wiki link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave...re#Decline_and_suppression_of_Ottoman_slavery


I dont use wiki as a source, though it is funny that ottomans were declining and suppressing their slavery whilst westerners were making it more of a thing and were more brutal in their treatment of slaves compared to Ottoman, thus proving my point. Besides, Ottomans were never a benchmark for Islamic jurisprudence on anything, you need to go to the Sunnah for that and im sure African slaves in the colonial period would rather be enslaved by the early Muslims than the west.


----------



## nang2

Titanium100 said:


> I am confident NATO will be defeated not in the short term future someone will eventually take it from them and figure them out. Planning a war for them also has to include a ridiculous large scale proportion planning. The capability to field a whopping 100-200m fighting force in multiple arena at once and from all axes. It would without a doubt become the biggest war in human history in scale but the key element is to bring it to them invading from the mediterranean, Atlantic ocean, From the Actic, Thru the eastern flank via Russia, thru Balkan, Greece, Italy etc etc in one proned multiple offensive launches it would be an unprecedented scale.. The Goal should be to entirely annex whole of West Europe within 6-7 years from top to bottom..


I think NATO will be defeated from implosion caused by obesity.

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## Falcon29

What are latest updates from the ground?

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## _Nabil_

thetutle said:


> I dont think so. I have been all over Europe and America. I know how people treat me, if you're a white guy, you can walk around dressed in turbans and people will just think you're a bit eccentric or strange. If you're really into islam they would think of you as they think of a white communist or a hippie, i.e. someone that has just lost their way. They might even hate your ideology or religion, but at the end of the day, you're a white guy.
> 
> If you're an African in Europe or even better, in America, you can dress like a college professor and wear a 6 foot cross around your neck, you still get shot but the police.
> 
> Im sure someone tried this for a joke but if some 6 foot blonde guy dressed like an Arab walked around a nice neighbourhood and a black guy walked around in a suit, the chances are somebody will call the police because the black guy is out of place and looks suspicious.
> 
> People will assume the white guy is going to a fancy dress party and the Black guy is trying to kill them. Thats the world we live in.


It's not about the people, they are free to be racist and I won't blame them, their personal choice.

We are talking about Politicians, main stream medias, analysts, Officials,....


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## nang2

Daylamite Warrior said:


> I dont use wiki as a source, though it is funny that ottomans were declining and suppressing their slavery whilst westerners were making it more of a thing and were more brutal in their treatment of slaves compared to Ottoman, thus proving my point. Besides, Ottomans were never a benchmark for Islamic jurisprudence on anything, you need to go to the Sunnah for that and im sure African slaves in the colonial period would rather be enslaved by the early Muslims than the west.


Also keep in mind that Ottoman was largely forced by Western world to stop slavery. It is good that they listened but less merit on their own.


----------



## Daylamite Warrior

nang2 said:


> Also keep in mind that Ottoman was largely forced by Western world to stop slavery. It is good that they listened but less merit on their own.


This is false, since the west still had slaves after the dismantling of Ottoman empire. So pure hypocrisy from the virtue signalling west, as expected.


----------



## Titanium100

nang2 said:


> I think NATO will be defeated from implosion caused by obesity.



I don't see that happening but what I see is live by the sword and die by the sword and that is the only exit for them otherwise we may never enter a new world order but in order for that to happen they will have to be undone and taken from them. There is no charity in the world especially from rising empires or falling empires... Empires come and go like the sunsets and they are just one page and one day their page will come to a conclusion and a new page will be written and that is just how life is in truth.. The Roman Empire, Abbasid, Rashidun, Ottoman, Mughal, Mamlukis, Tang, Russian Empire, Ayubbid, Ancient Egypt, Assyrians, Mongols etc etc all came and went


----------



## nang2

Daylamite Warrior said:


> This is false, since the west still had slaves after the dismantling of Ottoman empire. So pure hypocrisy from the virtue signalling west, as expected.


Evidence?


----------



## Stealth



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## Titanium100

Daylamite Warrior said:


> So pure hypocrisy from the virtue signalling west, as expected.



Can we please stay on topic. I found the muslims are insufferable bunch of people. You guys are very self-centric but you don't see it and as if the whole world revolves around you..

I am tired of this frankly because the world has 8 billion people which 7 of them are not muslims but I don't understand how you guys are so self-centric and I find it to be vain because in topics that are not even about you has to turn into about you...


It is as if you always want to be the star of the movie and the main attraction or topic talked about.. I have been seeing it in this thread and couple of other threads..

When sometimes the topic is not about you take a backseat look into other peoples lives and learn about their cultures how they live etc etc.. Not many even know one town of Ukraine despite this entire war and all they have been talking about is ME, Cairo, Abdul-Fattah Sisi, Imran Khan packages or meeting Putin, Erdogan Black-sea, Iran and the Iranian peoples sentiments, PKK, Hamas and surprising alot of Hamas etc etc

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## Daylamite Warrior

nang2 said:


> Evidence?


Convict leasing was abolished in 1942. Then you had sharecropping which restricted free movement away from cotton fields and could be whipped for trying to leave. And before you say that's not slavery, any forced labour of captives into servitude, that's slavery by any definition. Even though both practices were outlawed the practiced carried on into the 70s and ignored by the authorities by both North and South.


----------



## Stealth

Aesterix said:


> From twitter.
> Claimed to be J-10C cockpit.
> 
> View attachment 820124



*The image available on the internet since 2018 *


----------



## Pappa Alpha

nang2 said:


> Evidence?











Black People in the US Were Enslaved Well into the 1960s


More than 100 years after the Emancipation Proclamation, there were black people in the Deep South who had no idea they were free. These people were forced to work, violently tortured, and raped.




www.vice.com





This is even more appalling than slavery









The Negro Motorist Green Book - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## nang2

Daylamite Warrior said:


> Convict leasing was abolished in 1942. Then you had sharecropping which restricted free movement away from cotton fields and could be whipped for trying to leave. And before you say that's not slavery, any forced labour of captives into servitude, that's slavery by any definition. Even though both practices were outlawed the practiced carried on into the 70s and ignored by the authorities by both North and South.


If that is the case, then slavery is still with us, e.g. H1-B workers.



Pappa Alpha said:


> Black People in the US Were Enslaved Well into the 1960s
> 
> 
> More than 100 years after the Emancipation Proclamation, there were black people in the Deep South who had no idea they were free. These people were forced to work, violently tortured, and raped.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.vice.com


When a debate goes into the phase of exceptions fighting with exceptions, it becomes less productive and more pointless, for every country has exceptions.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498984538319597573



Where is the proof that it belonged to the Russian forces? All I saw is a tank parked on a snow.


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## Pappa Alpha

nang2 said:


> If that is the case, then slavery is still with us, e.g. H1-B workers.
> 
> 
> When a debate goes into the phase of exceptions fighting with exceptions, it becomes less productive and more pointless, for every country has exceptions.


What a convenient excuse


----------



## _Nabil_

nang2 said:


> I am a bit lazy so I just share the wiki link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave...re#Decline_and_suppression_of_Ottoman_slavery


Thanks your sharing the info, linking to








1926 Slavery Convention - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





Turned out that Afghanistan, Irak, Cuba, China, Syria, Philippines, Turkey, Pakistan, .....

Ratified the Slavery Convention before the mighty USA



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Where is the proof that it belonged to the Russian forces? All I saw is a tank parked on a snow.


No proof needed once it's against Russia, also this account is backing the west blatantly

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## Daylamite Warrior

Titanium100 said:


> Can we please stay on topic. I found the muslims are insufferable bunch of people. You guys are very self-centric but you don't see it and as if the whole world revolves around you..
> 
> I am tired of this frankly because the world has 8 billion people which 7 of them are not muslims but I don't understand how you guys are so self-centric and I find it to be vain because in topics that are not even about you has to turn into about you...
> 
> 
> It is as if you always want to be the star of the movie and the main attraction or topic talked about.. I have been seeing it in this thread and couple of other threads


Says the man that wants a one world government whom the world is in servitude to a bunch of western powers. Hypocrisy and double standards. Why cant Muslims look out for their own self interest? Why do we have to fight your wars for you when you hate and kill us? Slavery has finished, snap out of it! I find it hypocritical of westerners crying over another group of people doing exactly the same as they do. We are answerable to Allah, and if that makes us self-centred then I wont lose sleep. The obligatory charity, rights of parents, non-Muslims living under Muslim rule and treatment of non-combattants just proves were anything but self centred. If you ever suggest Muslims have to take a side in this conflict again this is the response you will get from me I'm afraid.


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## nang2

Pappa Alpha said:


> What a convenient excuse


It is also useful because you could use the same example to claim that China also has slavery now. I clearly won't let you do that.


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## Daylamite Warrior

nang2 said:


> If that is the case, then slavery is still with us, e.g. H1-B workers.


It is argued sex slavery and slavery in general hasn't really been abolished, just had a rebranding. Regardless the evidence I gave was slavery that is identical to any other form of slavery.


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## Khanate

*Kosher trade...*



Stealth said:


> View attachment 820126




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498983209035571202


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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Where is the proof that it belonged to the Russian forces? All I saw is a tank parked on a snow.



"All you see" is a T80BVM which is only in Russian army's inventory. You always come with the "muh do you have a proof it beloned to russians" when the vast majority of equipments shown aren't in ukrainian army inventory or when they are,in different versions.

You can't just accept the fact the "world's second most powerful" army is showing pathetic performances in the Ukrainian conflict and that the number of hardware destroyed or abandoned is astonishing. It was the army that supposed to take europe within 48 hours,seeing their performance even the Polish army could 1v1 them.

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## Titanium100

Daylamite Warrior said:


> non-Muslims living under Muslim rule and treatment of non-combattants just proves were anything but self centred. If you ever suggest Muslims have to take a side in this conflict again this is the response you will get from me I'm afraid.



I agree with some of the things you said brother besides I am Muslim myself and I agree we do have higher human rights but my point was the main issue that nobody can deny we are extremely self-centric people to an unhealthy level and I find being this much self-centric to be somewhat vain..

I remember few years back where a thief snatched a purse from an old muslim lady and the social media in my country went bunkers from other muslims and overreacting even dispatching 100 people to search the entire city to find a thief that has left hours ago it was over the top

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## Khanate

*Bidet logic...*

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## nang2

Vergennes said:


> "All you see" is a T80BVM which is only in Russian army's inventory. You always come with the "muh do you have a proof it beloned to russians" when the vast majority of equipments shown aren't in ukrainian army inventory or when they are,in different versions.
> 
> You can't just accept the fact the "world's second most powerful" army is showing pathetic performances in the Ukrainian conflict and that the number of hardware destroyed or abandoned is astonishing. It was the army that supposed to take europe within 48 hours,seeing their performance even the Polish army could 1v1 them.


Please teach us to confirm that it is really a T80BVM. Where are the signs to point to the fact that it is really a T80BVM?



Khanate said:


> *Bidet logic...*
> 
> View attachment 820135


Close enough!


----------



## Daylamite Warrior

Titanium100 said:


> I agree with some of the things you said brother besides I am Muslim myself and I agree we do have higher human rights but my point was the main issue that nobody can deny we are extremely self-centric people to an unhealthy level and I find being this much self-centric to be somewhat vain


You need to read up on your deen my brother, because we are under no obligation to the non-believers other than to deal justly with them provided there is reciprocity, as well as if they are under our rule. Muslims which you hang around with may be self-centric, but Islam certainly isnt.

Just read your edit, see we cant paint all Muslims with the same brush. But our deen is perfect and I make no apology in saying this. We dont need the west or UN.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Chak Bamu said:


> Its a European war & we would not be sucked into it. The only things that matter are: Trade & optics. We can give diplomatic statements & that would not change anything.



Can you imagine the European Union asking Somalia - out of all places - to condemn Russia? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497915176737198081

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## Ich

Falcon29 said:


> What are latest updates from the ground?



System Normal All Fucked Up

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499066719096168450


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## RescueRanger

Titanium100 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499047964878290952
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499045962748203013


🤥 why you lyin man?

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## newb3e

Clutch said:


> Interestingly the Russians are not making a spectacle of captured Ukrainians....
> The Ukrainian keep confirming their Nazi roots.


it seems whitey and their puppets be it jews yindu or eu or ana or ukr put mote effort in propaganda war rather than real war no wonder they end up on the lossing side!

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## Titanium100

RescueRanger said:


> 🤥 why you lyin man?



Is that fake news?


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## Daylamite Warrior

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499066719096168450


Can you provide evidence where Russia claimed they sustained no casualties? I seem to recall all they said was that their casualties were far less than the Ukrainians and what the Ukrainians claimed.

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## RescueRanger

Titanium100 said:


> Is that fake news?


 I’m fed up of this nonsense.


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## waz

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499066719096168450



They’re higher. That being said the Ukrainian forces have not published anything with many independents saying their losses are terrible.


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## Abid123

Stealth said:


> View attachment 820126


Wait I see somebody inside? Is that Aziqbal?

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## Bilal.

RescueRanger said:


> I’m fed up of this nonsense.


The entire Europe buying gas from Russia worth billions is missing from the map.

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## waz

RescueRanger said:


> Who’s missing from the map!!!! I’m fed up of this nonsense.



The map is BS. Africa is not anti-Putin it’s the opposite etc.



Bilal. said:


> The entire Europe buying gas from Russia is missing.


True.

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## thetutle

terry5 said:


> View attachment 820137


Serbia looks very isolated in Europe. 

I love how Afghanistan just came out of a 10 year long occupation by NATO and is till against Putin. lol Tells you a lot about Russia's Afghanistan brutality. Not easily forgotten.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> "All you see" is a T80BVM which is only in Russian army's inventory. You always come with the "muh do you have a proof it beloned to russians" when the vast majority of equipments shown aren't in ukrainian army inventory or when they are,in different versions.
> 
> You can't just accept the fact the "world's second most powerful" army is showing pathetic performances in the Ukrainian conflict and that the number of hardware destroyed or abandoned is astonishing. It was the army that supposed to take europe within 48 hours,seeing their performance even the Polish army could 1v1 them.



I have no skin in this fight and am actually neutral. We just need facts separated from propaganda. The tank was parked there. Where are the Ukrainian troops driving the tank and where are the Russian forces? All I've asked you show were facts - *and not fake propaganda*.

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## Titanium100

thetutle said:


> Serbia looks very isolated in Europe.
> 
> I love how Afghanistan just came out of a 10 year long occupation by NATO and is till against Putin. lol Tells you a lot about Russia's Afghanistan brutality. Not easily forgotten.



They didn't say anything and wrongly included in that but what they say is to refrain from violence and called for peace.. Without chosing a side


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## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499066719096168450


lol, just see how many APC's and tanks and helicopters are destroyed, I suppose Russians just walk out of a burning exploded tank no problem. Or that helicopter or two falling into water at top speed on its way to the front. all empty im sure and if there were soldiers onboard they all lived to tell about how it feels like to fall into water with helicopter at top speed.

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## Vergennes

waz said:


> They’re higher. That being said the Ukrainian forces have not published anything with many independents saying their losses are terrible.



Military losses from both sides should be already in the thousands. Expect much horrific losses when urban warfare will be engaged in Ukraine's most populated cities.



thetutle said:


> lol, just see how many APC's and tanks and helicopters are destroyed, I suppose Russians just walk out of a burning exploded tank no problem. Or that helicopter or two falling into water at top speed on its way to the front. all empty im sure and if there were soldiers onboard they all lived to tell about how it feels like to fall into water with helicopter at top speed.



The Russians have always been known to minimize or hide their casualties. They don't even bother to recover the bodies of their soldiers.

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## obj 705A

so much disinformation from the Ukrainian side like that "ghost of Kiev" BS.​___________________________________​*Russia reveals number of killed and injured troops in Ukraine*​
Some *498* *servicemen* *have been killed* and nearly *1,600* *have been wounded* during the ongoing attack on Ukraine, Russia’s military claimed on Wednesday.

According to Russian military estimates, *Ukrainian army units and far-right paramilitaries* have reportedly *lost at least 2,870 soldiers*, while a further *3,700 have received various wounds*. *Some 572* *Ukrainian servicemen were taken prisoner*, the ministry added.

Russian units involved in the operation are comprised solely of professional soldiers, the military has said, refuting allegations that the invasion force largely consists of _“conscripts.”



https://www.rt.com/russia/551084-military-fatalities-in-ukraine/


_

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## LeGenD

xuxu1457 said:


> Allwinyay：
> 
> Before I went to sleep, my wife said to me: This Russia is such a bad country, If Ukraine wants to join Nato, it is their business and freedom, Russia has no right to intervene, this is just an excuse for Russia to invade Ukarine.
> 
> So I said nothing, I just went to the kitchen and took a knife to bedside, then I said: Let’s go to sleep.
> 
> My wife looked at me with her wide eyes: What the heck are you doing, sleeping with a knife?!?!
> 
> I said: No worry, let’s go to sleep. Beside, sleeping with a knife is none of your business and it is my freedom.
> 
> My wife said: How can I sleep when you are sleeping with a knife? What if you accidentally cut me?
> 
> I said: Well, You don’t even trust your own husband, how can you expect Russia to trust Ukraine? Me sleeping with a knife is like Ukraine joining the Nato.


Is this a joke? The wife should file for divorce. This man is not worth staying with. He is creepy and manipulative.

Russia already share border with NATO member states. There is no justification for assaulting Ukraine.

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## Mujahid Memon

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/pakistan/comments/t4x7rs

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## Vergennes

LeGenD said:


> Is this a joke? The wife should file for divorce. This man is not worth staying with. He is creepy and manipulative.
> 
> Russia already share border with NATO member states. There is no justification for assaulting Ukraine.



LOW IQs who think NATO poses a threat to Russia's integrity. Russia is the very reason countries are pushing west and looking to join NATO,Russia's actions and words are only to blame.

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## Mujahid Memon

Russians getting Fantastic Tea


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/MadeMeSmile/comments/t518ev

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## GamoAccu

China will not join sanctions on Russia, banking regulator says | The Express Tribune


China will not join in sanctions on Russia that have been led by the West, the country's banking regulator said on Wednesday




tribune.com.pk


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## obj 705A

LeGenD said:


> Is this a joke? The wife should file for divorce. This man is not worth staying with. He is creepy and manipulative.
> 
> Russia already share border with NATO member states. There is no justification for assaulting Ukraine.


NATO is a blood lusted, offensive organization whose purpose is to destroy Russia.
Russia has every right to use military force to defend itself against this menace by preventing new members especially those that have borders with Russia from joining NATO. Just because Russia couldn't prevent the Baltics from joining NATO (for various reasons, one of them is that China's economy at that time wasn't anywhere near as big as it is today) that doesn't mean Russia should just roll over and allow this north atlantic menace to expand further at the border.

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## LeGenD

obj 705A said:


> NATO is a blood lusted, offensive organization whose purpose is to destroy Russia.
> Russia has every right to use military force to defend itself against this menace by preventing new members especially those that have borders with Russia from joining NATO. Just because Russia couldn't prevent the Baltics from joining NATO (for various reasons, one of them is that China's economy at that time wasn't anywhere near as big as it is today) that doesn't mean Russia should just roll over and allow this north atlantic menace to expand further at the border.


Did any NATO member state attack Russia?

Russia is not defending itself - it is attacking and stealing lands from neighboring countries under different pretexts.

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## RescueRanger

LeGenD said:


> Is this a joke? The wife should file for divorce. This man is not worth staying with. He is creepy and manipulative.
> 
> Russia already share border with NATO member states. There is no justification for assaulting Ukraine.


100 percent agree it’s interesting he decided to post when he did and draw parallels between domestic abuse and global conflict.

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## obj 705A

LeGenD said:


> Did any NATO member state attack Russia?
> 
> Russia is not defending itself - it is attacking and stealing lands from neighboring countries under different pretexts.


Are you trying to claim that NATO is not an offensive organization?

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## Titanium100

Vergennes said:


> the very reason countries are pushing west and looking to join NATO,Russia's actions and words are only to blame.



NATO is anything but defensive why is NATO containing China and North Korea on the far east by deploying 100.000 US troops which sit against China and NK? NATO is not a defense element but rather offensive and they will take out Russia in the endgame and the whole reason of them gathering on the Russian borders is for the endgame and trying to contain Russia they have militarized the eastern flank slowly but shortly. Estonia is basically inside the Suburb of Sct-Petersbourg that is dangerously close

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## LeGenD

RescueRanger said:


> 100 percent agree it’s interesting he decided to post when he did and draw parallels between domestic abuse and global conflict.


Absolutely. Some members of this forum continue to surprise me.

If I was that woman, I would have taught him a lesson.

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## thetutle

I am pretty sure al least half these soldiers dont wanna be there. they see Ukranians as brothers, they dont get paid enough to do this crap tot heir own people. 

Ok they are not the same people, but they are very close. So many Russians have Ukranian ancestry. 

How about that Russian guy holding up hand grenades walking through a crowd. Thats just desperation. He does not hate that crowd and he is sure that he may very well die walking through there and he does it anyway and he's probably saying he sounds have gone to school and studied harder and found a better job than being Putins cannon fodder. 

You think these Chechens want to be there? Half of them would kill a Russian soldier if they had the chance. All of them have lost family to the Russian army.

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## Suriya

At UNGA emergency session, Ukraine envoy "deeply regrets" death of Indian student in "Russian shelling" in Kharkiv; extends condolences.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499059256812716033




And India doesn’t leave behind anyone…
India student with his pet dog from Ukraine leaving conflict torn Ukraine on IAF C-17.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499072931061592065


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## RescueRanger

UN approves resolution condemning Russia​The United Nations General Assembly has approved a_*non-binding resolution*_ condemning Russia for the invasion of Ukraine and demanding an immediate withdrawal.

The vote saw 141 countries in favour, five against and 35 abstaining.


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## Tameem

China, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh Abstains.......More than half of the world Abstain to condemn Russia.

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## LeGenD

obj 705A said:


> Are you trying to claim that NATO is not an offensive organization?


Answer my question.

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## Ali_Baba

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Where is the proof that it belonged to the Russian forces? All I saw is a tank parked on a snow.



The star next to the number and the Z are give aways. It is Russian for sure.

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## Type59

NATO bombed Gaddafi in 2011, the aftermath caused regional instability that continues today. 

Certain NATO nations love to play general, because their military is superior to rivals.

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## RescueRanger

In pictures: People wait to board an evacuation train from Kyiv to Lviv​A packed platform has been seen at Kyiv central station, where people are waiting for an evacuation train to Lviv. 
















Source: BSKYB.

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## nang2

Type59 said:


> NATO bombed Gaddafi in 2011, the aftermath caused regional instability that continues today.
> 
> Certain NATO nations love to play general, because their military is superior to rivals.


That is why everyone should get a nuke so if someone tries to make the world a hellhole for him, he can return the favor.

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## OldTwilight

Tameem said:


> China, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh Abstains.......More than half of the world Abstain to condemn Russia.



You mean more than half of world population represented by their official governments ...

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## NotSure

AZMwi said:


> WTF is that

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## newb3e

Suriya said:


> At UNGA emergency session, Ukraine envoy "deeply regrets" death of Indian student in "Russian shelling" in Kharkiv; extends condolences.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499059256812716033
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And India doesn’t leave behind anyone…
> India student with his pet dog from Ukraine leaving conflict torn Ukraine on IAF C-17.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499072931061592065


mitaaarrr mujhe toh vijay ki boo arahi hai!

bhai waahhh!


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## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499066719096168450



Multiply by 10 and you get the real value. An attacker - by its nature - will always have more casualties than someone who is defending...

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## RescueRanger

*WHO*:

First shipment of medical aid to arrive in Poland tomorrow.​
Six tonnes of trauma care and emergency supplies - enough to help 150,000 people - will be arriving.
_*However, it is not clear how they will get to Ukrainians in need without a humanitarian corridor established. *_

The World Health Organisation said it had given emergency supplies to 23 hospitals in Ukraine before the conflict, but its supplies in Kyiv are currently inaccessible. 

It also warned it had reports of imminent shortages of cancer medications and insulin, as well as oxygen tanks. 
"There is an urgent need to establish a corridor to ensure humanitarian workers and supplies have safe and continuous access to reach people in need," said WHO director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus.

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## OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ

nang2 said:


> Evidence?



I don't know why the deflection of that other person is still playing out till now on this thread. 
He had other objectives anyway ...
Just check one word "Mamluk"
It's meaning and impact!

Slaves ruled Muslims!
Mahmud Ghaznavi, the son of slave... his grandfather The King...! 
Do find out how... anything further derails the thread even more...

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## thetutle

Tameem said:


> China, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh Abstains.......More than half of the world Abstain to condemn Russia.


Serbia, and Bosnia condemn Russian aggression. Wow. 

Serbia the Russian pet is turning against the master.

Bosnia seems to have adopted the EU stance as it has now become unanimous in EU. And that overrides the Bosnian Serb veto. What great rule, your foreign policy is whatever EU decides. 

Jump off the bridge? sure, the EU agrees. Anyway its rare to get EU to agree on something, Putin did it.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Daylamite Warrior said:


> It is argued sex slavery and slavery in general hasn't really been abolished, just had a rebranding. Regardless the evidence I gave was slavery that is identical to any other form of slavery.



The entire West is a Zionist plantation, so we have slavery right now. The entire Western societies have been enslaved now. They attacked Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan gave Palestine to their Zionist Jewish bosses, and sanction Iran on behalf of their Zionist Jewish masters. Hundreds of thousands of their soldiers are either killed or wounded in Muslim lands in order to create Greater Israel between Euphrates to the Nile. They're trying to squeeze Russia in order to subdue them and bring them under the Zionist Freemasonry control, while sacrificing Ukraine and others. And they changed their religion in the West to the point that Zionist Jews are seen as walking gods. There is no need to go back to history for slavery. It is right here in the West.

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## xuxu1457

LeGenD said:


> Answer my question.


history speaking， NATO Airstriked and dismemberment of Yugoslavia, which has human rights issues with Kosovo. NATO attacks Iraq because it has weapons of mass destruction. NATO did these only to show power and they want, these countries can't threat NATO at all
Russia attacked Ukraine, not right, but Russia did better than NATO, several days ago,U.S. airstrikes on Somalia, and then, is anyone condemning

if russia is US, and as US logic, Russia has full "reason", 
Does the Nazis exist in Ukraine, yes
Over the past eight years, Ukraine has launched an offensive against two republics in the east that voted for independence, 15,000 civilians have died, and the Azov Battalion has even massacred individual villages
Ukrainian legislation prohibits Russian from appearing in courts, government, schools, and media. Ukrainian is the only official language. All civil servants must pass the Ukrainian language exam. One in five people in Ukraine speaks Russian. Is it a cultural genocide?

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## shanipisces2002

Well i dont know where this discussion is heading to but i would say i blame West, Ukraine and Russia also,
however i blame the West, Nato more as they got Russia cornered with so many warnings not to bring Ukraine into NATO.
Meaning West Missles will be on Russian border meaning Russia won't gonna have time to counter them in that senario i am totally with Russia as they are protecting their interest.
Remember CUBA crisis and how USA went bonkers when Russia tried to place their ICBMS at that time there was an immeninet threat of a cold war.
So inorder to avoid that West & NATO should have not expanded but they did and now this idiot Zelensky wanted to align towards NATO he is getting the medicine for that.
If he was a sensible person he would remain Neutral maintain neutral relationship with West and NATO all would have been fine, but people doesn't seem to understand that actually the main culprit behind this is WEST & Nato.

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## RescueRanger

NotSure said:


>


Great movie, for those who haven’t seen it. I really recommend you do.

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## obj 705A

LeGenD said:


> Answer my question.


Why do you think NATO is deploying missiles closer and closer to Russia? Do you actually believe the BS reason that NATO gave that they are deploying those missiles closer to Russia because of Iran and N. Korea? Ofcourse they are deploying these missiles to put military pressure on Russia to bleed them out (because Russia would have to commit more to military spending), they already have been attacking Russia with hybrid warfare long before this invasion happened so they hope this hybrid warfare ( NATO expansion plus sanctions plus colour revolutions) that they waged on Russia (again long before the 2022 invasion) would lead to Russia crumbling from the inside.

Now answer my question were you trying to imply that NATO is not a blood lusted offensive organization?

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## NotSure

RescueRanger said:


> Great movie, for those who haven’t seen it. I really recommend you do.


John Carpenter is a genius. His other movies are superb too.

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## Titanium100

I think the IEA generals and planners were way better tactically then the Russian planners and tacticians.. This is not a knock on Russia but I think IEA just lucked out with someone gifted that came thru the ranks.

Because the way they executed the offensive was pitch perfect whereas the Russian offensive was allover the place in the beginning stages. The IEA used the turkish crescent tactics encirling first from the border areas then going to the villages first and finally encircling the cities themselves and while entering the cities also encirling them which creates siege mentality that defeats the opponents majority of the time it creates uncertainity for the foes and they will rush to open a corridor and to exit the battle majority of the time because being under fully encircled siege is unpleasant feeling mentally.

Example the Soviets failed to take Panjshir in 9 attempts despite having alot of logistics but IEA did it in like 5 days and it is one of the toughest places due to topgraphy hence they found a genius plan which is to send in smaller units of mountaineers to exclusively fight for the mountain tops while NFA was expecting IEA to throw in the cavalry it was a bluff for the first 3 days they were only sending in small units to fight for the mountain tops and zero logistics and once the mountain tops were taken IEA threw in the cavalry even Helicopters and warplanes leading to the complete collapse of a mythical fortress in 5 days.

From the tactical point of view don't know who that guy is within IEA who was in charge but he was genius and if he was the one doing the offensive for Russia then Ukraine would have been paralyzed by now


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## LeGenD

xuxu1457 said:


> history speaking， NATO Airstriked and dismemberment of Yugoslavia, which has human rights issues with Kosovo. NATO attacks Iraq because it has weapons of mass destruction. NATO did these only to show power and they want, these countries can't threat NATO at all
> Russia attacked Ukraine, not right, but Russia did better than NATO, several days ago,U.S. airstrikes on Somalia, and then, is anyone condemning


I have discussed this matter at length in following post:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Russia should ask for DMZ, they have nothing to lose, they have lost already and will be loosing more.



defence.pk







xuxu1457 said:


> if russia is US, and as US logic, Russia has full "reason",
> Does the Nazis exist in Ukraine, yes
> Over the past eight years, Ukraine has launched an offensive against two republics in the east that voted for independence, 15,000 civilians have died, and the Azov Battalion has even massacred individual villages
> Ukrainian legislation prohibits Russian from appearing in courts, government, schools, and media. Ukrainian is the only official language. All civil servants must pass the Ukrainian language exam. One in five people in Ukraine speaks Russian. Is it a cultural genocide?


I have discussed this matter in following post:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments






defence.pk







obj 705A said:


> Why do you think NATO is deploying missiles closer and closer to Russia? Do you actually believe the BS reason that NATO gave that they are deploying those missiles closer to Russia because of Iran and N. Korea? Ofcourse they are deploying these missiles to put military pressure on Russia to bleed them out (because Russia would have to commit more to military spending), they already have been attacking Russia with hybrid warfare long before this invasion happened so they hope this hybrid warfare ( NATO expansion plus sanctions plus colour revolutions) that they waged on Russia (again long before the 2022 invasion) would lead to Russia crumbling from the inside.
> 
> Now answer my question were you trying to imply that NATO is not a blood lusted offensive organization?


See above.

Military buildup is on both sides. Russia profits from sales of arms as well.

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## thetutle

RescueRanger said:


> First shipment of medical aid to arrive in Poland tomorrow.​
> Six tonnes of trauma care and emergency supplies - enough to help 150,000 people - will be arriving.
> _*However, it is not clear how they will get to Ukrainians in need without a humanitarian corridor established. *_



Whats in this medical Aid? Needles, Tylenol, Javelin, band aids, stinger, bandages.

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## _Nabil_

terry5 said:


> View attachment 820137


Tunisia Algeria, Egypt, even Morocco isn't against Russia.

Stop spreading lies .....

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## Solidify

Madni Bappa said:


> If it weren't for Russians. US and cronies would not have been able to brag about victory in European theater in WW2


Every WWII documentary I seen total in my life upto discovering how the Russians defeated Germans in battle of Kursk, shows how far superior the Russians were in all battles compared to Americans in WWII in Western versus the Eastern fronts. 
But in all those western documentaries shows the valor of ONLY US troops in WWII as if Russia didn't do jack.

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## RescueRanger

thetutle said:


> Whats in this medical Aid? Needles, Tylenol, Javelin, band aids, stinger, bandages.


The WHO is an impartial agency they have provided aid in conflict zones from Burma to Palestine.

Implying they would smuggle weapons in via medical aid is shallow— to say the least.

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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The entire West is a Zionist plantation, so we have slavery right now. The entire Western societies have been enslaved now. They attacked Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan gave Palestine to their Zionist Jewish bosses, and sanction Iran on behalf of their Zionist Jewish masters. Hundreds of thousands of their soldiers are either killed or wounded in Muslim lands in order to create Greater Israel between Euphrates to the Nile. They're trying to squeeze Russia in order to subdue them and bring them under the Zionist Freemasonry control, while sacrificing Ukraine and others. And they changed their religion in the West to the point that Zionist Jews are seen as walking gods. There is no need to go back to history for slavery. It is right here in the West.



Not entirely wrong. But except living like slaves, the people under this oppression live pretty good.

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## Suriya

Big Breaking: Russian side is "trying to organise urgent evacuation of group of Indian students from Kharkiv through humanitarian corridor along the shortest route to Russia", says Kremlin on PM Modi- President Putin talks

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## kursed

On a different note, given the sheer number of IFV/MBT losses, even in this war, I wonder if these will change any calculations for us? @iLION12345_1 @PanzerKiel

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## thetutle

RescueRanger said:


> The WHO is an impartial agency they have provided aid in conflict zones from Burma to Palestine.
> 
> Implying they would smuggle weapons in via medical aid is shallow— to say the least.



You're right, NATO would never send spies and arms smuggles under the cover of WHO aid workers into a conflict zone. 

CIA usually wear black coats and talk into their sleeves.

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## Suriya

Russia says Ukrainian Security forces have taken Indian students hostage to use them as human shield to prevent them from leaving. Indian Coordinators had earlier told me that 300+ Indians remain in Kharkiv Metro station unable to leave due to curfew.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

thetutle said:


> Not entirely wrong. But except living like slaves, the people under this oppression live pretty good.



Have any politician in US Congress and a well-know figure condemn Israel and see what happens? 

Have anyone question the billions of USD of given to Israel and see what happens? 

If AIPAC decides today that America must attack Iran, Egypt, or others, no force in America can stop it. 

Federal Reserve takes your hard-earned money and spends it as they see fit. 

We're in the brink of World War III because Blinken and the Deep State decided to bring Russia to its knees. 

We do have slavery in the West, and there is only one group of people who are "Masters".

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## LeGenD

Solidify said:


> Every WWII documentary I seen total in my life upto discovering how the Russians defeated Germans in battle of Kursk, shows how far superior the Russians were in all battles compared to Americans in WWII in Western versus the Eastern fronts.
> But in all those western documentaries shows the valor of ONLY US troops in WWII as if Russia didn't do jack.


US-led forces defeated the legendary German Commander Erwin Rommel in Africa in 1942. They invaded Italy in 1943 - a development which prevented Germany from reinforcing its divisions in the Eastern Front. The battle of Kursk occurred in 1943 in the same time. This is not coincidence. Allied forces were helping each other in different ways.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Meengla said:


> The latest picture. Interesting observation about Asia. Looks like bloody sieges lie ahead and Grozny 2 planned. And Ukraine may lose all sea access. At this point, if Russia throws in all it has, then Ukraine very likely becoming a landlocked country for the foreseeable future. Those submarines would need wings to be useful
> 
> 
> View attachment 820117


At this point maneuver for Ukrainian forces is impossible. They're in prepared defenses but encircled. Prepared defenses don't last long against artillery and air power.

Make no mistake, Russia started fighting this as if it was a COIN operation but Ukraine is 1/4 the population of Russia and 1/9 the GDP.

*This is a similar ratio as US vs Imperial Japan. *Ukraine is definitely the underdog and heavily outmatched but isn't Afghanistan or Iraq by any means. And US, though winning in the end against Imperial Japan with a kill ratio advantage, still struggled quite a bit at the start.

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## nang2

FairAndUnbiased said:


> At this point maneuver for Ukrainian forces is impossible. They're in prepared defenses but encircled. Prepared defenses don't last long against artillery and air power.
> 
> Make no mistake, Russia started fighting this as if it was a COIN operation but Ukraine is 1/4 the population of Russia and 1/9 the GDP.
> 
> *This is a similar ratio as US vs Imperial Japan. *Ukraine is definitely the underdog and heavily outmatched but isn't Afghanistan or Iraq by any means. And US, though winning in the end against Imperial Japan with a kill ratio advantage, still struggled quite a bit at the start.


What is a COIN operation before I start to think it is for coin operated laundry?


----------



## _Nabil_

LeGenD said:


> US-led forces defeated the legendary German Commander Erwin Rommel in Tunisia in 1942. They invaded Italy in 1943 - a development which prevented Germany from reinforcing its divisions in the Eastern Front. The battle of Kursk occurred in 1943 in the same time. This is not coincidence. Allied forces were helping each other in different ways.


Corrected a typo


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## obj 705A

@LeGenD 
Why did you delete my post?

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## Titanium100

obj 705A said:


> @LeGenD
> Why did you delete my post?



You can delete it yourself.. There is a delete option unless it is older then 48 hours


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## Iñigo



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## LeGenD

Madni Bappa said:


> If it weren't for Russians. US and cronies would not have been able to brag about victory in European theater in WW2


This is shortsighted assumption. USSR benefitted a lot from the American Lend Lease program - a large number of aircraft, tanks and trucks were shipped to USSR which contributed to its fighting capacity and mobility.









Lend-Lease tanks and aircrafts


Lend-Lease tanks and aircraft for the Red Army 1941 to 1945. Figures of supplied armored vehicle and aircraft types from the United States and Britain to Soviet Union during the Second World War. The Red




www.ww2-weapons.com





USAF would have destroyed Germany in any case.



obj 705A said:


> @LeGenD
> Why did you delete my post?


I removed a post in which you were found to be trolling me. Your other posts are at display.

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## GiG

"Hang your chemistry and electricity! If you want to make a pile of money, invent something that will enable these Europeans to cut each others' throats with greater facility" 
~ Hiram Maxim 1882 (Inventor of machine gun)

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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> If AIPAC decides today that America must attack Iran, Egypt, or others, no force in America can stop it.
> 
> Federal Reserve takes your hard-earned money and spends it as they see fit.
> 
> We're in the brink of World War III because Blinken and the Deep State decided to bring Russia to its knees.



If APIAC decided that every American should donate their livers to Israelis so they have one just in case, FENA would be rounding up Americans and shipping those livers off while they are still warm. 

And yes, they decided to twist the knife into Russia, they wanted to make sure the corpse was dead. But the corpse is standing and and its moving. And now they will try to hit it on the head with the shovel.

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## FairAndUnbiased

nang2 said:


> What is a COIN operation before I start to think it is for coin operated laundry?


COunter INsurgency. I believe Russia thought that Ukrainian government was weak so all they had to do was do what US did in Afghanistan or what they did in Syria: shock and awe with air power, go in with special forces, shoot up the commanders and organized resistance collapses. This works against poorly motivated insurgents but doesn't work against even inferior organized troops.

Ukraine is not that weak and the government isn't that unpopular though which is why their first assaults failed.

Remember that even when Nazi Germany steamrolled Poland in what is regarded as basically destroying an unarmed opponent as a war crime, they still lost 17k soldiers, 270 planes and 1000+ vehicles even though they had far more planes, vehicles and soldiers. Poland was far smaller and poorer than Germany at the time. Russian expeditionary military is actually smaller than Ukrainian.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

As per the Turkish analysts it's an "Intelligence" warfare. It's obvious from so blatant mistakes at the Staff Planning levels at both sides. A deep "smoke and mirror" game is being played with tons of hard to explain events. The ordinary Ukrainians are paying the price...

My note: As for the countries like Turkey and Pak it's a win-win situation for it's the war of the Imperialists vs Imperialists as per the DIVINE RULE that stipulates an intense hatred brewing 24/7 amongst the Usual Suspects for each other...


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## NotSure

How the Ukrops are faking "russian" loses in this war.

That reminds me of the fake bodybuilders with their adobe gains.

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## A1Kaid

FairAndUnbiased said:


> COunter INsurgency. I believe Russia thought that Ukrainian government was weak so all they had to do was do what US did in Afghanistan or what they did in Syria: shock and awe with air power, go in with special forces, shoot up the commanders and organized resistance collapses. This works against poorly motivated insurgents but doesn't work against even inferior organized troops.
> 
> Ukraine is not that weak and the government isn't that unpopular though which is why their first assaults failed.
> 
> Remember that even when Nazi Germany steamrolled Poland in what is regarded as basically destroying an unarmed opponent as a war crime, they still lost 17k soldiers, 270 planes and 1000+ vehicles even though they had far more planes, vehicles and soldiers. Poland was far smaller and poorer than Germany at the time. Russian expeditionary military is actually smaller than Ukrainian.



Wrong comparison. Russia is using their C class army of paramilitary, Chechen soldiers, and some army regulars for this war. They haven't really used their advanced weapon systems, not even their stealth bomber. US and NATO went into Iraq with strong force and it took them 1 month and 1 week to conventionally defeat Iraq's army.

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## Titanium100

Titanium100 said:


> I think the IEA generals and planners were way better tactically then the Russian planners and tacticians.. This is not a knock on Russia but I think IEA just lucked out with someone gifted that came thru the ranks.
> 
> Because the way they executed the offensive was pitch perfect whereas the Russian offensive was allover the place in the beginning stages. The IEA used the turkish crescent tactics encirling first from the border areas then going to the villages first and finally encircling the cities themselves and while entering the cities also encirling them which creates siege mentality that defeats the opponents majority of the time it creates uncertainity for the foes and they will rush to open a corridor and to exit the battle majority of the time because being under fully encircled siege is unpleasant feeling mentally.
> 
> Example the Soviets failed to take Panjshir in 9 attempts despite having alot of logistics but IEA did it in like 5 days and it is one of the toughest places due to topgraphy hence they found a genius plan which is to send in smaller units of mountaineers to exclusively fight for the mountain tops while NFA was expecting IEA to throw in the cavalry it was a bluff for the first 3 days they were only sending in small units to fight for the mountain tops and zero logistics and once the mountain tops were taken IEA threw in the cavalry even Helicopters and warplanes leading to the complete collapse of a mythical fortress in 5 days.
> 
> From the tactical point of view don't know who that guy is within IEA who was in charge but he was genius and if he was the one doing the offensive for Russia then Ukraine would have been paralyzed by now



I would also like to add...

I heard rumors that they were planning for that blitz for 5 years and laying the ground works and also one thing to notice is he stormed all 34 provinces and cities of the country in one big offensive but left one province and they just kept passing by it during the blitz back and forward withint touching it or attempting on it and that province was Panjshir and the reason they left it be was due to topography and they knew this province will darn their resources hence first take everything come back a month later when you have consolidated the remaining of the country


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## LeGenD

obj 705A said:


> @LeGenD I asked you to answer my question on whether you were implying that NATO is not a blood lusted offensive organization, how is that trolling?


I have given you my answer already. Both Russia and NATO are aggressive forces - both have attacked other countries from time-to-time. Neither camp has the higher moral ground.

Russian narrative in regards to invasion of Ukraine rings hollow, however. Russia already shares border with NATO member states, and no NATO member state have assaulted Russia thus far. Russia is assaulting one neighboring country after another on the other hand. What do you think NATO member states are supposed to do under these circumstances? Leave their borders unguarded? Common sense please.

As for the post which I removed - you know very well why I removed it. Do not put labels on me again.

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## Iñigo

6, six days, 6

It seems to me that the size and speed of what has been done in 6 days is not taken into account

---

And, on top of that, in this corner of the world, in this forum, we refugees, escapees and fugitives from the Western madhouse have to continue to put up with the insufferable Western narrative.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499040883865391107

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## A1Kaid

Iñigo said:


>



Can't believe how honest and accurate that guy was. The only analysis I've heard on western news that was truthful.

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## obj 705A

LeGenD said:


> I have given you my answer already. Both Russia and NATO are aggressive forces - both have attacked other countries from time-to-time. Neither camp has the higher moral ground.


Well that's a good start, at least you are not claiming that the US has the moral high ground.



LeGenD said:


> Russian narrative in regards to invasion of Ukraine rings hollow, however. Russia already shares border with NATO member states, and no NATO member state have assaulted Russia thus far. Russia is assaulting one neighboring country after another on the other hand. What do you think NATO member states are supposed to do under these circumstances? Leave their borders unguarded? Common sense please.



I already answered this part in the previous posts, repeating the same talking point over and over doesn't turn it into reality,if you have no new reply then just don't reply.

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## gambit

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> By far the biggest challenge is that the modern western world is a atomized society while Islam and eastern civilizations are holistic. The recent burst of promenon and genderfluidity is precisely the product of atomization. It is also the reason why the west fails to penetrate islamic societies with its ideas. In many ways the western civilization is the youngest of all world civilizations and therefore its philosphies are also young and energetic but in a bigger picture its also foolish.
> 
> *The western world is so dominant that its axioms are taken as default and universal, often even by well educated people, maybe even more so.*


Or at least most attractive at the moment. The world is filled with ideas. Some parallel and some contestant. Parallel ideas, we can live with. Contestant ideas, not so much.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

A1Kaid said:


> Wrong comparison. Russia is using their C class army of paramilitary, Chechen soldiers, and some army regulars for this war. They haven't really used their advanced weapon systems, not even their stealth bomber. US and NATO went into Iraq with strong force and it took them 1 month and 1 week to conventionally defeat Iraq's army.


US also outnumbered Iraq in 1991 and had almost equal numbers in 2003 while Russia went in with 1/2 the troops Ukraine had. Russia did seem to underestimate Ukraine. Now they're fixing their mistake.

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## Titanium100

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Remember that even when Nazi Germany steamrolled Poland in what is regarded as basically destroying an unarmed opponent as a war crime, they still lost 17k soldiers, 270 planes and 1000+ vehicles even though they had far more planes, vehicles and soldiers. Poland was far smaller and poorer than Germany at the time. Russian expeditionary military is actually smaller than Ukrainian.



Ukraine is not that strong besides can Ukraine fight for years and possible for decades? I don't think so imho Ukraine will have stomach to fight only max 12 months and thats about it.. Example in Afghanistan they just vacated into mountains from the get go and they had no intention of standing infront of US shock and awe invasion they just vanished into the mountains and the question is why because they knew this by experience via the soviets and didn't view this as sprint but as long azz marathon

This is what Mullah said in the first interview at the night of the attack... ''You have all the watches but we have the time'' He already knew this was gonna be a long campaign and extreme battle of attrition his experienced because he was one of them fighting 9 years the Soviets hence he knows how this always plays out and that comment comes from a place of experience

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## Englishman

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499040883865391107



Hey sweetcheeks

Finding the 9/11 hijackers passports from the WTC rubble is more likely..

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## gambit

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> What Russia is doing in Ukraine is nothing but staggering. Not only militarily but also geopolitically. Russia effectively is challenging and beating the post-Cold War Euro-American world order.


Challenging, yes. But beating, no. Russia have many social issues, from declining birth rates to alcoholism to stagnant economy. This is the last gasp of a has-been superpower.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Titanium100 said:


> Ukraine is not that strong besides can Ukraine fight for years and possible for decades? I don't think so imho Ukraine will have stomach to fight only max 12 months and thats about it.. Example in Afghanistan they just vacated into mountains from the get go and they had no intention of standing infront of US shock and awe invasion..
> 
> This is what Mullah said in the first interview at the night of the attack... *''You have all the watches but we have the time''* He already knew this was gonna be a long campaign his experienced because he was one of them fighting 9 years the Soviets hence he knows how this always plays out and that comment comes from a place of experience


They can't. Ukraine is going to be defeated. But this is what happens when 2 even slightly comparable mechanized forces fight each other. France and Poland managed to inflict severe losses on Germany but still got conquered in the end.

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## Vergennes

Ukrainian partisans are very active attacking rear forces of the occupant..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499092583368298499

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499093095153127426


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## A1Kaid

FairAndUnbiased said:


> US also outnumbered Iraq in 1991 and had almost equal numbers in 2003 while Russia went in with 1/2 the troops Ukraine had. Russia did seem to underestimate Ukraine. Now they're fixing their mistake.



I think the underestimation in Ukrainian resistance is true. On top of that I think Russia is trying to minimize civilian casualties in eastern Ukraine because they do intend to hold it directly or hold it by proxy and have the Ukrainian government negotiate and agree to it.

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## NA71

gambit said:


> Challenging, yes. But beating, no. Russia have many social issues, from declining birth rates to alcoholism to stagnant economy. This is the last gasp of a has-been superpower.


CHALO....GAME OVER....


----------



## Clutch

thetutle said:


> Serbia looks very isolated in Europe.
> 
> I love how Afghanistan just came out of a 10 year long occupation by NATO and is till against Putin. lol Tells you a lot about Russia's Afghanistan brutality. Not easily forgotten.



Afghans... Are anti every foreign occupation... Be it Russia, American NATO, or even Pakistani. That's they way they are.

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## LeGenD

Titanium100 said:


> Ukraine is not that strong besides can Ukraine fight for years and possible for decades? I don't think so imho Ukraine will have stomach to fight only max 12 months and thats about it.. Example in Afghanistan they just vacated into mountains from the get go and they had no intention of standing infront of US shock and awe invasion they just vanished into the mountains and the question is why because they knew this by experience via the soviets and didn't view this as sprint but as long azz marathon
> 
> This is what Mullah said in the first interview at the night of the attack... ''You have all the watches but we have the time'' He already knew this was gonna be a long campaign and extreme battle of attrition his experienced because he was one of them fighting 9 years the Soviets hence he knows how this always plays out and that comment comes from a place of experience


This is beautifully put. Good to see someone who understands Afghan insurgency model and tactics, finally. No tall claims but reality. 

Afghan Taliban lost thousands of fighters to NATO forces in direct clashes - Afghan Taliban eventually realized what they were up against and switched to sabotaging tactics. They began to target Afghan government instead. This worked.

Ukrainian fighting spirit surprised many as well. Ukrainian insurgency can last long if NATO provides support.

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## FairAndUnbiased

A1Kaid said:


> I think the underestimation in Ukrainian resistance is true. On top of that I think Russia is trying to minimize civilian casualties in eastern Ukraine because they do intend to hold it directly or hold it by proxy and have the Ukrainian government negotiate and agree to it.


That is also true. But now they're gloves off. They have to win. No choice.

Notice how Ukrainian media only posts individual photos of burning vehicles and single captured Russian soldiers. They've rarely posted video of them shooting, just the aftermath. This shows they're only able to inflict tactical damage.

Russia meanwhile has shown video of entire groups of POWs rounded up, videos of their helicopters opening fire, pictures of entire destroyed convoys... It is strategic victory.

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## Titanium100

FairAndUnbiased said:


> They can't. Ukraine is going to be defeated. But this is what happens when 2 even slightly comparable mechanized forces fight each other. France and Poland managed to inflict severe losses on Germany but still got conquered in the end.



France? damage? Nah brah they surrendered in 9 days. They inflicted nothing and Poland was basically streamrolled by the germans like an afternoon snack.

Ukraine and Russia are not even in armament. Russia is far ahead of Ukraine but Ukraine was arming itself currently at much higher rate but Russia found out about that and intervened here before all of her programs came to be because Ukraine had just activated mass modernization but they never got thru because Russia invaded by 2025 they would have had much stronger army then now.

Ukraine has weak airforce and weak ADS. Taiwan is 10 times better armed and more chellenging both in Airforce and ADS. Taiwanese F-16s may actully shatter the Russian airforce

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## FairAndUnbiased

LeGenD said:


> This is beautifully put. Good to see someone who understands Afghan insurgency model and tactics, finally. No tall claims but reality.
> 
> Afghan Taliban lost thousands of fighters to NATO forces in direct clashes - Afghan Taliban eventually realized what they were up against and switched to sabotaging tactics. They began to target Afghan government instead. This worked.
> 
> Ukrainian fighting spirit surprised many as well. Ukrainian insurgency can last long if NATO provides support.


It won't last. Ukraine has a natural barrier in the middle of the country: the Dnieper River. All bridges on the Dnieper have been blown up by Ukraine.

That means East and West Ukraine are completely isolated from each other. Russia can just wrap up the east while mining the river and no supplies are getting through. Russia isn't active on the western side anyhow so there's no loss.

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## jamal18

gambit said:


> Challenging, yes. But beating, no. Russia have many social issues, from declining birth rates to alcoholism to stagnant economy. This is the last gasp of a has-been superpower.


With trillions of dollars of debt and a dollar that's destined to fall off a cliff, I didn't think America's life expectancy was that high either.

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## gambit

Meengla said:


> I believe if NATO had not been extended then Russia would not militarize to this extent again.


Do you have any idea how perverse this argument really is? That was a rhetorical question. Of course not.

When the Soviet Union collapsed, was that what the satellites wanted? Of course. They are free. The severance was painful, to be sure. But now they are able to make their own decisions. As sovereign states, critical to being sovereign is independent decision making.

This is the gist of the NATO alliance argument: Your skirt is too short and you are wearing too much makeup, so you deserved to be raped.

It is blaming the victim and perverse.



jamal18 said:


> With trillions of dollars of debt and a dolar that's destined to fall off a cliff, I didn't think America's life expectancy was that high either.


Been hearing that since '09 when I was invited here. I would ask you for something more original, but...


----------



## RescueRanger

My time wasting on SDR payed off - Managed to capture Ukrainian's trolling a Russian military frequency. They hijack the conversation and shout "Glory to Ukraine" before playing the Ukrainian National Anthem. Sadly the Russians have jammed it now. I recorded the audio feel free to listen to it: 

Audio File Here:




__





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sndup.net

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## FairAndUnbiased

Titanium100 said:


> France? damage? Nah brah they surrendered in 9 days. They inflicted nothing and Poland was basically streamrolled by the germans like an afternoon snack.
> 
> Ukraine and Russia are not even in armament. Russia is far ahead of Ukraine but Ukraine was arming itself currently at much higher rate but Russia found out about that and intervened here before all of her programs came to be because Ukraine had just activated mass modernization but they never got thru because Russia invaded by 2025 they would have had much stronger army then now.
> 
> Ukraine has weak airforce and weak ADS. Taiwan is 10 times better armed and more chellenging both in Airforce and ADS. Taiwanese F-16s may actully shatter the Russian airforce


I wish you'd look at the statistics.

Poland: inflicted 17k German casualties, destroyed 1000+ vehicles, shot down 270 planes. Took 1 month.









Invasion of Poland - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





France inflicted 27k German casualties, destroyed 800+ tanks, shot down 1000+ planes. Took 3 weeks.









Battle of France - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





Ukrainian own claim is 4000 Russian soldiers, 200 tanks and 4 planes.

They're doing *worse* than France and Poland vs Nazi Germany.

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## RescueRanger

thetutle said:


> You're right, NATO would never send spies and arms smuggles under the cover of WHO aid workers into a conflict zone.
> 
> CIA usually wear black coats and talk into their sleeves.

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## Muhammed45

LeGenD said:


> I have given you my answer already. Both Russia and NATO are aggressive forces - both have attacked other countries from time-to-time. Neither camp has the higher moral ground.
> 
> Russian narrative in regards to invasion of Ukraine rings hollow, however. Russia already shares border with NATO member states, and no NATO member state have assaulted Russia thus far. Russia is assaulting one neighboring country after another on the other hand. What do you think NATO member states are supposed to do under these circumstances? Leave their borders unguarded? Common sense please.
> 
> As for the post which I removed - you know very well why I removed it. Do not put labels on me again.


You have supposed that NATO is designed to protect the member states from External threat. No sir, as we all know well it is not so. 

NATO attacked Iraq without UN permission. They have conducted tens of massacres all over the world specially in Islamic world. 

NATO is in fact extension of US army and it is USA that has planted its nuclear warhead in European countries making them its front line against independent states such as Russia. 

NATO doesn't support its member states, it abuses them to occupy the remaining countries in the neighboring areas of NATO borders. Look at Turkey Syria borders for example. They prepared Syria for invasion based on a false claim of chemical weapons. 

Russians on the other hand are just preventing massacre on Russian ethnics and they are trying to stop the American led humiliation on Russian ethnics. 

They have every right to protect their people from harms of racists NAZIs and fascists of EU.

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## somebozo

The current melt down of global political order was set up by none other than US and its NATO allies. For the last two decades, this alliance has invaded countries at will, propped up revolutions and plunged entire states into social chaos. Ethics and morality vanished from geo-politics and international relations became reduced to psychopathic exploitation for asymmetric benefits. The geo-political and financial system setup post world war two has reached beyond its expiry date. It no longer serves the people, but a few who control the system. From Europe to American, birth rates have drastically fallen despite rise in income and living standards by huge magnitude. Debt, over work and insecurity has crippled individuals and state alike. The global economy and political situation currently is in a phase of stagnation and denigration. It was only a matter of time before a crack head decides to up the pressure and break the chain.

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## gambit

Titanium100 said:


> Ukraine is not that strong besides can Ukraine fight for years and possible for decades? I don't think so imho Ukraine will have stomach to fight only max 12 months and thats about it.. Example in Afghanistan they just vacated into mountains from the get go and they had no intention of standing infront of US shock and awe invasion they just vanished into the mountains and the question is why because they knew this by experience via the soviets and didn't view this as sprint but as long azz marathon


The question is can Russia hang on for that 12 months. The ruble is now worth less than one US penny. I tried to buy some rubles to save up enough for a Russian mail order bride but no reputable sellers available due to sanctions. No one helped Afghanistan when the US was in Afghanistan. But look at how much help Ukraine is receiving today, from military to commercial. Then, it is revealing on how bad and sad is the Russian army overall. Maybe it is Russia that cannot hold Ukraine for 12 months.

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## Titanium100

FairAndUnbiased said:


> I wish you'd look at the statistics.
> 
> Poland: inflicted 17k German casualties, destroyed 1000+ vehicles, shot down 270 planes. Took 1 month.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Invasion of Poland - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> France inflicted 27k German casualties, destroyed 800+ tanks, shot down 1000+ planes. Took 3 weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Battle of France - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian own claim is 4000 Russian soldiers, 200 tanks and 4 planes.
> 
> They're doing *worse* than France and Poland vs Nazi Germany.



Look nobody releases casuality..

I have seen people qouting what nations make official thinking this is actual numbers no sane country will release their actual casuality numbers..

Example the claimed US casualities for Vietnam was extremely low until one guy uncovered the real figures which is much higher around 80.000 US forces died in vietnam and he was being conversative.

According to AFG sources the US lost atleast 150k+ in Afghanistan without counting other nations.. They have no obligation to report these numbers as they have signed their entire army as contractors..

Hence Russia will release untrue numbers and so will Ukraine... Literally nobody will release real casualities numbers in war times


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## Vergennes

Kremlin's mouthpieces banned in the EU,can't access them.

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## RescueRanger

*Hahah I Found another Russian military frequency hijacked this time they play the Cranberries song "Zombie" *
Frequency: 4625 Khz 2.40 filter USB

*Audio file*





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The song that they are playing is this one:

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## A1Kaid

FairAndUnbiased said:


> That is also true. But now they're gloves off. They have to win. No choice.
> 
> Notice how Ukrainian media only posts individual photos of burning vehicles and single captured Russian soldiers. They've rarely posted video of them shooting, just the aftermath. This shows they're only able to inflict tactical damage.
> 
> Russia meanwhile has shown video of entire groups of POWs rounded up, videos of their helicopters opening fire, pictures of entire destroyed convoys... It is strategic victory.



Yeah I noticed that too, Ukrainians are very active on social media. They are winning in social media w/western media backing. They are praising Zelenskyy as he is some hero of liberal democracy, when in actuality the guy is pretty corrupt and has jailed his political and media opposition.

Western world will see the truth soon. I can only imagine what Russia's best army would be like.

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## Suriya



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## RescueRanger

Here the Audio file for the other hijacked Military frequency:






SndUp | Post info


Record, upload, share! SndUp is a social network, for audio! We enable you to upload audio clips and share them with the world. Sharing your talent is simple!



sndup.net





This time there is a recording that says " Glory to Ukraine" before playing the Ukrainian national anthem:

Frequency: 4615 Khz 2.40 Filter USB 



On this second one they have hijacked it and replaced it with an audio file of pigs squealing:






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## FairAndUnbiased

Titanium100 said:


> Look nobody releases casuality..
> 
> I have seen people qouting what nations make official thinking this is actual numbers no sane country will release their actual casuality numbers..
> 
> Example the claimed US casualities for Vietnam was extremely low until one guy uncovered the real figures which is much higher around 80.000 US forces died in vietnam and he was being conversative.
> 
> According to AFG sources the US lost atleast 150k+ in Afghanistan without counting other nations.. They have no obligation to report these numbers as they have signed their entire army as contractors..
> 
> Hence Russia will release untrue numbers and so will Ukraine... Literally nobody will release real casualities numbers in war times


I stated Ukraine's claim of Russian casualties which is a maximalist claim.


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## LeGenD

Titanium100 said:


> France? damage? Nah brah they surrendered in 9 days. They inflicted nothing and Poland was basically streamrolled by the germans like an afternoon snack.
> 
> Ukraine and Russia are not even in armament. Russia is far ahead of Ukraine but Ukraine was arming itself currently at much higher rate but Russia found out about that and intervened here before all of her programs came to be because Ukraine had just activated mass modernization but they never got thru because Russia invaded by 2025 they would have had much stronger army then now.
> 
> Ukraine has weak airforce and weak ADS. Taiwan is 10 times better armed and more chellenging both in Airforce and ADS. Taiwanese F-16s may actully shatter the Russian airforce


Beautifully put again.

Your perspective makes good sense.

When Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014, Ukraine lost some lands including Crimea to Russia due to sheer disparity in military might of both countries. NATO decided to provide anti-tank munitions and UAVs to Ukraine afterwards - it is possible that these supplies spooked Russia. Putin administration might have felt that it must act now before NATO is able to transform Ukrainian military into a capable fighting force.

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## FairAndUnbiased

LeGenD said:


> Beautifully put again.
> 
> Your perspective makes perfect sense as well.
> 
> When Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014, Ukraine lost some lands including Crimea to Russia due to sheer disparity in military might of both countries. NATO decided to provide anti-tank munitions and UAVs to Ukraine afterwards - it is possible that these supplies spooked Russia. Putin administration might have felt that it must act now before NATO is able to transform Ukrainian military into a capable fighting force.


Ukraine is pretty big. 40 million people vs. Russia's 150 million, $200 billion GDP vs. Russian $1.6 trillion GDP.

This is like Imperial Japan vs US which had a similar population and economy ratio.

It can't win a war, but it can definitely make it hurt. And plus they were being armed from the outside. It's not a cakewalk for Russia but now that Russia is taking things seriously the Ukrainians are getting pounded by artillery and air power.


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## somebozo

Euro-American political thought is morally distorted and skewed beyond belief. For decades none spoke about their own dirty act of meddling into states, failing them, invading them at will, destroying them and running away with impunity. However, this time a western power decided to act with in the borders of Europe, repeating the acts conducted in Iraq and Afghanistan earlier in the name of self defense and caused a world wide alarm. The pretext of this rowdy conduct and to attack at will was paved by no other than Euro-American alliance. They even went as far as to hijack a Turkey, A NATO member state by backing political clerics like Gulen.


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## zartosht

Ukrainian t64 captured intact. and some NATO weapons NLAW? and smaw d captured

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## RescueRanger

zartosht said:


> Ukrainian t64 captured intact. and some NATO weapons NLAW? and smaw d captured


Yeah can confirm that's an NLAW that's the transit case which is why it looks so bulky:


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## iLION12345_1

kursed said:


> On a different note, given the sheer number of IFV/MBT losses, even in this war, I wonder if these will change any calculations for us? @iLION12345_1 @PanzerKiel


I’ve been following the war rather closely, just haven’t had the time to talk or discuss it much.

In my opinion, the answer is No.

From what I’ve observed so far, this war has been an absolute tactical shit-show from both sides.

On one hand Ukraine did absolutely nothing to seriously prepare for the war despite having so much time as they either thought Putin was bluffing or they simply couldn’t due to the extremely rampant corruption, morale issues and most importantly maintenance and logistics issues plaguing it’s armed forces. When Russia attacked they were caught with their pants down and started mobilizing only after the invasion. So far they have barely used any of their armor or heavy equipment because they just can’t, the moment they try it’ll be decimated because it didn’t prepare in advance, nor have they used any of their doctrine. The entire defensive doctrine right now is just them converging where ever possible and picking off smaller Russian groups (will get to that in a second) through ambushes. The principle weapons have been ATGMs and MANPADS. They barely have any defensive plan. They were in fact caught so badly off guard that they’ve had to arm their civilians _*before*_ they can mobilize their reserves and entire *active* army. Even if that’s being portrayed as a mark of bravery, it’s certainly not a mark of competence.


Now coming to the other side, the Russians are arguably doing even worst than the Ukrainians. A 5 year old could have planned a better invasion and offensive than the Russians. Not only are there several reports of morale issues among their forces due to them being lied to about the invasion (many of them apparently didn’t know they were going to war, they were told they were going to exercises in nearby Crimea), there are *severe* logistical and planning issues with their forces. Their tanks and armored vehicles are quite literally running out of fuel halfway to targets and being abandoned, they have no proper frontline or movement strategy, they’re just roaming about in small groups like they’re here for a picnic and getting picked off. Tanks and armored vehicles are driving on roads with zero cover or situational awareness. They seem to have no proper objective in mind, at least not till the last day or so.

if anyone wants an example of what happens when you make every single possible bad decision in a war. Ukraine and Russia have presented that.

Relating it to your question, I believe that this just isn’t a good example of what an actual war would be, at least not on the Pakistani-Indian front, where both armies are much much more dependent on their doctrines and battle plans and won’t be running around haplessly as the Russians and Ukrainians are (the Russians are literally losing convoys to drones that are harmless against Fighter jets…while also having complete air superiority and much superior AD). Most of these losses are very easily preventable with better planning and doctrine, as well as better inter-services cooperation.
So this likely doesn’t change all that much for battle plans in the PA and IA, if anything our planners are probably going to study how to prevent what’s going on there right now by simply not doing what they did.



I could go into much deeper detail about how either side is doing things wrong. With how big the Russian army is and how incompetent the Ukrainian one is on paper, they should have overran all of Ukraine by now. On the other hand, given how poorly Russian forces have performed, with the size of Ukraines forces, the Russians never should have gotten this far either. Credit where due to the Ukrainian people in this regard, they’ve held out better than expected. However even with the mess-ups, it’s just delaying the inevitable, the Russian forces are starting to regroup and formulate a proper strategy, and even if they don’t, they can just go on longer than the Ukrainians due to resources and manpower, and that’s starting to show. The Russians will win the military part of this war, but likely not much after that. They will not be able to hold Ukraine at all even if they win, and their economy will suffer *a lot*.

(This is a completely seperate part of the post where I’m just expressing my opinion, don’t relate it to anything above). I also find it funny how half of Ukraines war is being fought by western Media and government PR. Half the western world that didn’t even know Ukraine existed or had anything going on in it less than a month ago is now acting like it has personally been fighting for Ukraine for decades. People that are simply anti-Russian or anti-putin are acting like they’re anti-war humanitarians. They’ve turned Zelensky into some sort of brave war hero, the same one who allows Neo-Nazis in his armed forces with near impunity and sold out his people for votes during the Covid crisis. Imo both the Ukrainian and Russian governments are two sides of the same coin, greedy politicians. They both deserve each other, The only losers here are the Russian and Ukrainian people.

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## Rafi

Have seen some pretty graphic stuff, I don't know how to feel about it, as have family involved in the conflict zone.

The tide has definitely turned, the Russians are steamrolling the Uks, pretty brutal, it is just a matter of time, before the Ukrainians collapse on multiple fronts.

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## INS_Vikrant

Suriya said:


> View attachment 820166


While Russia says they UKR is intentionally holding students as hostages


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499094585955713027

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## Titanium100

gambit said:


> The question is can Russia hang on for that 12 months.



I somewhat agree with this due to the massive support Ukraine is recieving they could bleed russia but they need expertise in insurgency war in the eastern part which Russia intends to fully occupy. But the jury is still out and I wouldn't discount the Ukrainians as they have shown great bravery hence they are in the game and anything can happen



INS_Vikramaditya said:


> While Russia says they UKR is intentionally holding students as hostages
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499094585955713027



India is doing all this bravado shxt because they got humiliated and they failed to help Indians leading to Pakistan Embassy helping them as they were abandoned and now all of sudden the Indians are angry due to this major error occuring. To late the humiliation and the abandoned have already happened and they are trying hard to alter that or undo that..

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## iLION12345_1

Titanium100 said:


> I somewhat agree with this due to the massive support Ukraine is recieving they could bleed russia but they need expertise in insurgency war in the eastern part which Russia intends to fully occupy. But the jury is still out and I wouldn't discount the Ukrainians as they have shown great bravery hence they are in the game and anything can happen


IMO Ukraine will fall sooner or later, there’s just simply no way they can beat Russia military even with all that foreign aid and with how bad the Russian offensive has been. The thing is that this just doesn’t matter. So let’s say Russia takes over Kiev and installs a puppet government as it plans to.…then what? The Ukrainian people will rebel and there will simply be no way Russia can hold on to the country and said government unless they absolutely go full police-state. On the other hand, the economic sanctions will start to kick in and absolutely decimate the Russian economy, forcing them to reconsider their plans. Keep in mind that many of the sanctions placed on Russia have not come into effect yet, such major sanctions take time. In fact all of the American sanctions don’t go into effect till April. So you can guess how little Russian economy is affected right now compared to what it will be then. 

Another way out may be a compromise through peace talks where Ukraine agrees to certain Russian demands and Vice versa. But we will see if anything like that happens.

TLDR: Russia is almost certainly winning the military war, but it won’t be of as much use and one might think.

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## Mujahid Memon

iLION12345_1 said:


> I’ve been following the war rather closely, just haven’t had the time to talk or discuss it much.
> 
> In my opinion, the answer is No.
> 
> From what I’ve observed so far, this war has been an absolute tactical shit-show from both sides.
> 
> On one hand Ukraine did absolutely nothing to seriously prepare for the war despite having so much time as they either thought Putin was bluffing or they simply couldn’t due to the extremely rampant corruption, morale issues and most importantly maintenance and logistics issues plaguing it’s armed forces. When Russia attacked they were caught with their pants down and started mobilizing only after the invasion. So far they have barely used any of their armor or heavy equipment because they just can’t, the moment they try it’ll be decimated because it didn’t prepare in advance, nor have they used any of their doctrine. The entire defensive doctrine right now is just them converging where ever possible and picking off smaller Russian groups (will get to that in a second) through ambushes. The principle weapons have been ATGMs and MANPADS. They barely have any defensive plan. They were in fact caught so badly off guard that they’ve had to arm their civilians _*before*_ they can mobilize their reserves and entire *active* army. Even if that’s being portrayed as a mark of bravery, it’s certainly not a mark of competence.
> 
> 
> Now coming to the other side, the Russians are arguably doing even worst than the Ukrainians. A 5 year old could have planned a better invasion and offensive than the Russians. Not only are there several reports of morale issues among their forces due to them being lied to about the invasion (many of them apparently didn’t know they were going to war, they were told they were going to exercises in nearby Crimea), there are *severe* logistical and planning issues with their forces. Their tanks and armored vehicles are quite literally running out of fuel halfway to targets and being abandoned, they have no proper frontline or movement strategy, they’re just roaming about in small groups like they’re here for a picnic and getting picked off. Tanks and armored vehicles are driving on roads with zero cover or situational awareness. They seem to have no proper objective in mind, at least not till the last day or so.
> 
> if anyone wants an example of what happens when you make every single possible bad decision in a war. Ukraine and Russia have presented that.
> 
> Relating it to your question, I believe that this just isn’t a good example of what an actual war would be, at least not on the Pakistani-Indian front, where both armies are much much more dependent on their doctrines and battle plans and won’t be running around haplessly as the Russians and Ukrainians are (the Russians are literally losing convoys to drones that are harmless against Fighter jets…while also having complete air superiority and much superior AD). Most of these losses are very easily preventable with better planning and doctrine, as well as better inter-services cooperation.
> So this likely doesn’t change all that much for battle plans in the PA and IA, if anything our planners are probably going to study how to prevent what’s going on there right now by simply not doing what they did.
> 
> 
> 
> I could go into much deeper detail about how either side is doing things wrong. With how big the Russian army is and how incompetent the Ukrainian one is on paper, they should have overran all of Ukraine by now. On the other hand, given how poorly Russian forces have performed, with the size of Ukraines forces, the Russians never should have gotten this far either. Credit where due to the Ukrainian people in this regard, they’ve held out better than expected. However even with the mess-ups, it’s just delaying the inevitable, the Russian forces are starting to regroup and formulate a proper strategy, and even if they don’t, they can just go on longer than the Ukrainians due to resources and manpower, and that’s starting to show. The Russians will win the military part of this war, but likely not much after that. They will not be able to hold Ukraine at all and their economy will suffer *a lot*.
> 
> (This is a completely seperate part of the post where I’m just expressing my opinion, don’t relate it to anything above). I also find it funny how half of Ukraines war is being fought by western Media. Half the western world that didn’t even know Ukraine existed or had anything going on in it less than a month ago is now acting like it has personally been fighting for Ukraine for decades. People that are simply anti-Russian or anti-putin are acting like they’re anti-war humanitarians. They’ve turned Zelensky into some sort of brave war hero, the same one who allows Neo-Nazis in his armed forces with near impunity and sold out his people for votes during the Covid crisis. Imo both the Ukrainian and Russian governments are two sides of the same coin, greedy politicians. They both deserve each other, The only losers here are the Russian and Ukrainian people.


Take this poor man's rating:

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## Windjammer

Latest casualty figure disclosed by both sides.
Ukrainians claim that 2000 of their civilians killed while Russia concedes nearly 500 of it's soldiers have died so far in the war.

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## Diviner

Ukraine live TV supposedly filming dead persons in TV killed during the invasion. But during filming one of dead woke up adjusting his /her for conformable posture

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## nang2

Diviner said:


> Ukraine live TV supposedly filming dead persons in TV killed during the invasion. But during filming one of dead woke up adjusting his /her for conformable posture


You think wearing a mask for a long time is not comfortable? Try wearing a body bag!

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## QWECXZ

Vergennes said:


> Kremlin's mouthpieces banned in the EU,can't access them.
> 
> View attachment 820164
> 
> View attachment 820165


So much for freedom of speech.

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## Titanium100

iLION12345_1 said:


> IMO Ukraine will fall sooner or later, there’s just simply no way they can beat Russia military even with all that foreign aid and with how bad the Russian offensive has been. The thing is that this just doesn’t matter. So let’s say Russia takes over Kiev and installs a puppet government as it plans to.…then what? The Ukrainian people will rebel and there will simply be no way Russia can hold on to the country and said government unless they absolutely go full police-state. On the other hand, the economic sanctions will start to kick in and absolutely decimate the Russian economy, forcing them to reconsider their plans. Keep in mind that many of the sanctions placed on Russia have not come into effect yet, such major sanctions take time. In fact all of the American sanctions don’t go into effect till April. So you can guess how little Russian economy is affected right now compared to what it will be then.
> 
> Another way out may be a compromise through peace talks where Ukraine agrees to certain Russian demands and Vice versa. But we will see if anything like that happens.
> 
> TLDR: Russia is almost certainly winning the military war, but it won’t be of as much use and one might think.



A battle of attrition can arise from here hence it is to early to say it won't.. What is even much more dangerous then the army is a civilian insurgency arising from the ashes of this conflict that is extremely driven and could drag out things but hard to predict such outcome but there is possibility hence the jury is out but it can go both ways. The Russians could handle everything or a battle of attrition could rise


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## Meengla

gambit said:


> Do you have any idea how perverse this argument really is? That was a rhetorical question. Of course not.
> 
> When the Soviet Union collapsed, was that what the satellites wanted? Of course. They are free. The severance was painful, to be sure. But now they are able to make their own decisions. As sovereign states, critical to being sovereign is independent decision making.
> 
> This is the gist of the NATO alliance argument: Your skirt is too short and you are wearing too much makeup, so you deserved to be raped.
> 
> It is blaming the victim and perverse.



I stand by I said: We would not be in this situation had militaristic moves were not made against Russia after 1991. Free choice?? Have you given thought to a sovereign Cuba not allowed to host Russian missiles?? At least in case of Cuba there was some sea between the mainland USA and Cuba. Hypocrisy much?? Here, just as USSR fell, the biggest inducement for the West was to make the newly independent countries to join a *military *alliance against Russia right next to its border as in case for the Baltic countries. Russia in 1991 was spent force and I believe would have become part of Europe given time but some powers couldn't wait.

*PS. It is interesting that Iran abstained from the UNGA vote??!! *

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## Kraetoz

What happened to the peace talks that were to take place in Belarus? Does anybody have any info?

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## Clutch

The economic war front of the Russia-Ukraine crisis:


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## Iñigo

And so the West is a gigantic mental kindergarten of silences, lies and fantasies.

Perhaps what most forges the Western mental bubble is silence

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## iLION12345_1

iLION12345_1 said:


> I’ve been following the war rather closely, just haven’t had the time to talk or discuss it much.
> 
> In my opinion, the answer is No.
> 
> From what I’ve observed so far, this war has been an absolute tactical shit-show from both sides.
> 
> On one hand Ukraine did absolutely nothing to seriously prepare for the war despite having so much time as they either thought Putin was bluffing or they simply couldn’t due to the extremely rampant corruption, morale issues and most importantly maintenance and logistics issues plaguing it’s armed forces. When Russia attacked they were caught with their pants down and started mobilizing only after the invasion. So far they have barely used any of their armor or heavy equipment because they just can’t, the moment they try it’ll be decimated because it didn’t prepare in advance, nor have they used any of their doctrine. The entire defensive doctrine right now is just them converging where ever possible and picking off smaller Russian groups (will get to that in a second) through ambushes. The principle weapons have been ATGMs and MANPADS. They barely have any defensive plan. They were in fact caught so badly off guard that they’ve had to arm their civilians _*before*_ they can mobilize their reserves and entire *active* army. Even if that’s being portrayed as a mark of bravery, it’s certainly not a mark of competence.
> 
> 
> Now coming to the other side, the Russians are arguably doing even worst than the Ukrainians. A 5 year old could have planned a better invasion and offensive than the Russians. Not only are there several reports of morale issues among their forces due to them being lied to about the invasion (many of them apparently didn’t know they were going to war, they were told they were going to exercises in nearby Crimea), there are *severe* logistical and planning issues with their forces. Their tanks and armored vehicles are quite literally running out of fuel halfway to targets and being abandoned, they have no proper frontline or movement strategy, they’re just roaming about in small groups like they’re here for a picnic and getting picked off. Tanks and armored vehicles are driving on roads with zero cover or situational awareness. They seem to have no proper objective in mind, at least not till the last day or so.
> 
> if anyone wants an example of what happens when you make every single possible bad decision in a war. Ukraine and Russia have presented that.
> 
> Relating it to your question, I believe that this just isn’t a good example of what an actual war would be, at least not on the Pakistani-Indian front, where both armies are much much more dependent on their doctrines and battle plans and won’t be running around haplessly as the Russians and Ukrainians are (the Russians are literally losing convoys to drones that are harmless against Fighter jets…while also having complete air superiority and much superior AD). Most of these losses are very easily preventable with better planning and doctrine, as well as better inter-services cooperation.
> So this likely doesn’t change all that much for battle plans in the PA and IA, if anything our planners are probably going to study how to prevent what’s going on there right now by simply not doing what they did.
> 
> 
> 
> I could go into much deeper detail about how either side is doing things wrong. With how big the Russian army is and how incompetent the Ukrainian one is on paper, they should have overran all of Ukraine by now. On the other hand, given how poorly Russian forces have performed, with the size of Ukraines forces, the Russians never should have gotten this far either. Credit where due to the Ukrainian people in this regard, they’ve held out better than expected. However even with the mess-ups, it’s just delaying the inevitable, the Russian forces are starting to regroup and formulate a proper strategy, and even if they don’t, they can just go on longer than the Ukrainians due to resources and manpower, and that’s starting to show. The Russians will win the military part of this war, but likely not much after that. They will not be able to hold Ukraine at all even if they win, and their economy will suffer *a lot*.
> 
> (This is a completely seperate part of the post where I’m just expressing my opinion, don’t relate it to anything above). I also find it funny how half of Ukraines war is being fought by western Media and government PR. Half the western world that didn’t even know Ukraine existed or had anything going on in it less than a month ago is now acting like it has personally been fighting for Ukraine for decades. People that are simply anti-Russian or anti-putin are acting like they’re anti-war humanitarians. They’ve turned Zelensky into some sort of brave war hero, the same one who allows Neo-Nazis in his armed forces with near impunity and sold out his people for votes during the Covid crisis. Imo both the Ukrainian and Russian governments are two sides of the same coin, greedy politicians. They both deserve each other, The only losers here are the Russian and Ukrainian people.


Continuing on; the aftermath of this war is going to be _*very *_bad for both countries. On one hand until Russia holds Ukraine, it’ll be basically a puppet state, on the other hand Putin has made a blunder by attacking at this stage, he’s literally made half of Europe (most importantly Germany) increase their defense spending by billions, hence making its own main adversary (NATO) considerably stronger. And that’s after the major economic crisis that will occur in Russia if and when those sanctions fully kick in. 

Both sides are telling a lot of lies right now. That’s kinda how modern media-warfare works. I’d suggest seeing both sides of the war to stay updated. Most of the Pro-Ukrainian/western forums or servers I visit seem to be thinking that only the Russians are losing men and equipment, as all the videos of dead Ukrainian soldiers conveniently don’t reach them and anyone talking about how Ukraine doesn’t have clean hands gets banned for being a Russian Shill. On the other hand the Russians are only now starting to realize how many men they’re losing too, there’s already a major anti-war sentiment back in the federation, people are not going to be happy with Putin and the government, and even then, they don’t see a major portion of their losses because of state media.



Kraetoz said:


> What happened to the peace talks that were to take place in Belarus? Does anybody have any info?


Nothing came out of it yet. They will hold more talks soon.

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## coffee_cup

gambit said:


> [...]. No one helped Afghanistan when the US was in Afghanistan. But look at how much help Ukraine is receiving today, from military to commercial. [...].


Gloating about invading countries breaking all the international laws with impunity and that no one can come to their help "when we do it", is simply pathetic and absolutely shameless. 

-- And then they wonder why the rest of the world outside the usual Western minions dont give a shyt when chickens come back home to roost !

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499109697105842178

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499108162791739396

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499101309345341440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499099581518614528

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499108639315050497

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## Titanium100

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499109697105842178
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499108162791739396
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499101309345341440
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499099581518614528



Japan's airspace was also violated yesterday by Russia

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## FuturePAF

It has been reported that one of Ukraine’s best fighter pilots, Col. Oleksandr Oksanchenko, the Grey Wolf has been shot down and killed over Kyiv at the hands of a Russian S-400 battery. *This would be the best time to test weapons against the S-400 in real world conditions (on Ukrainian aircraft of course).*

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## Mujahid Memon

Comments are lit

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## Titanium100

The one country that benefits from this war then any other countries is ''CHINA'' because the US was about to fortify the far east in Japan, South Korea, Guam and Okinawa but due to NATO eastern flank issues the US attention is diverted from the far east for atleast the next decade or half

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499097139221123072

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## nang2

Titanium100 said:


> The one country that benefits from this war then any other countries is ''CHINA'' because the US was about to fortify the far east in Japan, South Korea, Guam and Okinawa but due to NATO eastern flank issues the US attention is diverted from the far east for atleast the next decade or half


Too early to tell.

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## NA71

Russians are now going all out to expand war zones ...multiple countries shouting Air Violations by Russians ....OR it is some move by Europeans ...as pretext...are the trying to engage in air?

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## Clutch

Diviner said:


> Ukraine live TV supposedly filming dead persons in TV killed during the invasion. But during filming one of dead woke up adjusting his /her for conformable posture


Lol..m that's hilarious. Open deception and lies....

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## Titanium100

nang2 said:


> Too early to tell.



The NATO eastern flank issues will linger for some time besides EU feels under geninue threat


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## LeGenD

Mujahid Memon said:


> Take this poor man's rating:
> 
> View attachment 820181


I have given him positive rating on your behalf. 😉

His perspective is refreshing no doubt.

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## nang2

Titanium100 said:


> The NATO eastern flank issues will linger for some time besides EU feels under geninue threat


Maybe US is just comfortable with a 2-front war.


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## Titanium100

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499097139221123072



The entire east europe hosts no foreign population citizens because nobody even goes there in the first place because they are poor these eastern european countries. It's all West Europe.

Besides I don't even understand why he has to be so passionate about it. It is his home and he has the right to not let anyone he doesn't want in and don't see why some even pressing him for other ways and the woman questioning didn't even asked him about that question.. But either way that is his home and you only let in whomever you want there is no pressure here and no reason even talking about just shout your borders and say no thanks... Example China takes literally nobody doesn't matter who European, African etc etc there is no migration at all zero and they are not insecure about it. No need to shout about it just do you and put it into the constiution



nang2 said:


> Maybe US is just comfortable with a 2-front war.



I don't think they are


----------



## RescueRanger

Rocket strike near the central railway station in Kyiv:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499114295963095043

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## TheNoob

FairAndUnbiased said:


> I wish you'd look at the statistics.
> 
> Poland: inflicted 17k German casualties, destroyed 1000+ vehicles, shot down 270 planes. Took 1 month.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Invasion of Poland - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> France inflicted 27k German casualties, destroyed 800+ tanks, shot down 1000+ planes. Took 3 weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Battle of France - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian own claim is 4000 Russian soldiers, 200 tanks and 4 planes.
> 
> They're doing *worse* than France and Poland vs Nazi Germany.



Why are you comparing two different scales of warfare? 
This post has a useless +ve rating.


----------



## nang2

Titanium100 said:


> The entire east europe hosts no foreign population citizens because nobody even goes there in the first place because they are poor these eastern european countries. It's all West Europe.
> 
> Besides I don't even understand why he has to be so passionate about it. It is his home and he has the right to not let anyone he doesn't want in and don't see why some even pressing him for other ways and the woman questioning didn't even asked him about that question.. But either way that is his home and you only let in whomever you want there is no pressure here


I don't think it is simply a case of someone letting some others in his home. It is a humanitarian crisis and accepting those who run away from a war is a humanitarian act, not some simple hospitality. A humanitarian act means to act based on humanity. Now, in this case, they seem to have different definitions of humanity.


----------



## Titanium100

nang2 said:


> I don't think it is simply a case of someone letting some others in his home. It is a humanitarian crisis and accepting those who run away from a war is a humanitarian act, not some simple hospitality. A humanitarian act means to act based on humanity. Now, in this case, they seem to have different definitions of humanity.



I am a firm believer in free choice whether it is humantarian act or whatever else. A person should have the right to invite whomever he pleases to his home and there is no crime in that..


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

TheNoob said:


> Why are you comparing two different scales of warfare?
> This post has a useless +ve rating.



What's the difference? Poland and France wasn't a total war yet. Right now Russia and Ukraine are in a high intensity conventional war but not total war.


----------



## nang2

Titanium100 said:


> I am firm believer in free choice whether it is humantarian act or whatever else. A person should have the right to invite whomever he pleases to his home and there is no crime in that..


That is true. Through this free choice, they reveal their true feelings and opinions. So long as they don't pretend to be humane, I am OK with it. But I am not OK with bullshit and hypocrisy.

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## Wergeland 2.0

gambit said:


> Or at least most attractive at the moment. The world is filled with ideas. Some parallel and some contestant. Parallel ideas, we can live with. Contestant ideas, not so much.



Absolutely

Essential part of human psychology is the tendency to accept and admire winners. The west no doubt have been the winning team for soon 300 years. To emulate winners and their customs is also very natural for onwatchers.

But there are some pitfalls here too. Like all phenomena i nature, everything has a positive and less positive side. Forexample, what made America great also is becoming its bane; non-regulatory capitalism.

The Romans built a marvelous Empire that lastet for almost 300 years. But it crumbled so easily when it has played out its inner destination. Romans built on knowledge from those who came before them, and those who came after Romans tried to emulate them. So is knowledge improved on and passed onto next generation or next civilization. Just like that did also the west adopt islamic concepts and ideas, and built upon them according to its(wests) own image.

My sincere opinion, *the animosity between Islam and the West is largely a constructed artifact. For all their appearant differences, they are essentially twins*. The competition between them is originated in a geostrategical framework. Metaphysically they are brothers.

The west claims ancient Greek as its own great grandfather. But to the Greek, the western europe of its time was a wilderland full of wild forest and beast, its tribes mere primitive and barbaric. The Greeks had most of their interactions and knowledge exchange with not what was west of Athens, but rather what was to the south and east of it. If islam wanted to it could claim ancient greek as its own heritage, with a even stronger legitimacy than western europe. And for many centuries it did; through the Ottomans who clamied the title Caesar of Rum.

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## AsianLion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499102009781280776


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## nang2

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> But there are some pitfalls here too. Like all phenomena i nature, everything has a positive and less positive side. Forexample, what made America great also is becoming its bane; non-regulatory capitalism.


Good lord! Where have you been in the last 300 years? America is notorious in regulations.


----------



## QWECXZ

Meengla said:


> *PS. It is interesting that Iran abstained from the UNGA vote??!! *


What's interesting about it?
We do not support the Russian aggression in Ukraine. We don't support Ukraine because it is ruled by a Zio-Nazi asshole that is in bed with NATO, but that's all.

If anything, Iran was one of the first countries to recognize Ukraine's independence from the Soviet Union.

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## INS_Vikrant

While there are lots of talk about Indias UN voting related to this war. One country that escaped this kind of discussion is surprisingly China. They have also abstained both the times at UNSC and UNGA while anyone would expect them to have voted in favor of Russia.


----------



## Shotgunner51

Titanium100 said:


> The one country that benefits from this war then any other countries is ''CHINA'' because the US was about to fortify the far east in Japan, South Korea, Guam and Okinawa but due to NATO eastern flank issues the US attention is diverted from the far east for atleast the next decade or half


What's to be fortified is far bigger than just in geographical domain, the 1% US is not stupid.


----------



## nang2

INS_Vikramaditya said:


> While there are lots of talk about Indias UN voting related to this war. One country that escaped this kind of discussion is surprisingly China. They have also abstained both the times at UNSC and UNGA while anyone would expect them to have voted in favor of Russia.


Any country that has some stake in the relationship with US and Russia will likely abstain. It is just to reflect the reality.


----------



## Titanium100

What in the world? Is this a new footage? Propaganda or real? Apparently this is from Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499118869490941956


Shotgunner51 said:


> What's to be fortified is far bigger than just in geographical domain, the 1% US is not stupid.



Elaborate?


----------



## Shotgunner51

Titanium100 said:


> Elaborate?


Sure but perhaps in another thread later, let's stay on Russia-Ukraine here.

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## Wergeland 2.0

gambit said:


> Challenging, yes. But beating, no. Russia have many social issues, from declining birth rates to alcoholism to stagnant economy. This is the last gasp of a has-been superpower.



As much as i wish you are right, i am afraid youre wrong.

The problems of the west are much deeper what meets the eye. The west is akin to a aging man who has fulfilled his full potential and seeded many new ideas and territories.

For religion has no longer any significance in its conciousness, relegated to a mere ceremonial institution, often mocked as the belief of the olds and fools. People no longer see the benefit of children. The postmodern individualization questions the very tradition of childbirth and rationalize anti-natalism as the moral position. Why should a woman choose to give birth when she could spend her youthful years on self-realizing? The west has come to an era where it without immigration could face depopulation. This is the final destiny of all civilization when its detached from its orginal funtional operating system, which is what religion is in its essence.



nang2 said:


> Good lord! Where have you been in the last 300 years? America is notorious in regulations.



I am not talking about regulations like in laws. What i am talking about is the balance between the individual and the society.

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## Titanium100

As I have said previously Mariupol is gonna be a legendary battle because I know the once besieged inside Mariupol they are nuts. Keep an eye on that..

Azov Regiment Official statement released minutes ago translated from the tweet below:

*''Defenders of Mariupol continue to keep the defense on the outskirts of the city. The occupying forces were unable to realize their fantasies of a rapid capture of the city. Therefore, they began to destroy civilian infrastructure and carry out shelling of the civilian population''

''The army detects and gradually destroys enemy artillery to protect Mariupol from shelling. The hunt for enemy equipment is also continuing, today the fighters of the Azov Regiment repulsed 6 attacks on the outskirts of the city. The mercenaries escaped during one of the battles, leaving 2 tanks and 2 infantry fighting vehicles''*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499118712934354945






This is gonna get spicy

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## LeGenD

Russia is now deploying An-2 biplanes to support its ongoing military operation in Ukraine.

_While the air war in the first week of the Kremlin’s invasion of Ukraine has been dominated by apparent cruise missile strikes launched from bombers, extensive rotary-wing activity, and multiple, unconfirmed reports of air combat involving Russian and Ukrainian jets, one surprising participant looks to be waiting in the wings. The Russian Aerospace Forces’ (VKS) An-2 Colt biplane, a rugged, agricultural-looking design first flown in 1947, could well be getting ready for action over Ukraine, although the exact role it might fulfill remains puzzling. 

Although designed primarily for crop-dusting, the An-2 proved to be a highly adaptable aircraft for both civilian and military operators. Even today it remains in frontline service both for various types of special operations work, including in an armed configuration. More commonly, however, it’s used as a training aircraft, especially for paratroopers.

Aerial imagery and accompanying analysis from the satellite imagery and space technology firm Maxar Technologies indicates that a considerable number of An-2s have now been moved to Seshcha Air Base in Bryansk Oblast, a region in western Russia, which shares a border to northern Ukraine._









Russia Appears To Be Preparing Its Ancient An-2 Biplanes For War In Ukraine


A large number of the distinctive Cold War-era utility planes have appeared at an airfield close to the Ukrainian border.




www.thedrive.com

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## Mohsin A

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499114051464568832
Co-incidence?


----------



## Super Falcon

Seems like world has shorting of visionary keaders of 70 s nw every one lives in self egoness
War ifs getting into areas of no waty for return

War getting us to end of the earth


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499113066109227011


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

LeGenD said:


> Beautifully put again.
> 
> Your perspective makes good sense.
> 
> When Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014, Ukraine lost some lands including Crimea to Russia due to sheer disparity in military might of both countries. NATO decided to provide anti-tank munitions and UAVs to Ukraine afterwards - it is possible that these supplies spooked Russia. Putin administration might have felt that it must act now before NATO is able to transform Ukrainian military into a capable fighting force.



It was Selensky idiot who wouldn't keep his mouth shut. He kept talking about getting nuclear weapons, wanting to join NATO, etc. If he would've watched his words, pushed back against Western elites who was instigating him against Russia, he would've been in better position in 10 years time than it is now.

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## Meengla

QWECXZ said:


> What's interesting about it?
> We do not support the Russian aggression in Ukraine. We don't support Ukraine because it is ruled by a Zio-Nazi asshole that is in bed with NATO, but that's all.
> 
> If anything, Iran was one of the first countries to recognize Ukraine's independence from the Soviet Union.



Maybe you are right or maybe this has to do with the ongoing Iran-America deal... And I'd be careful Zelensky govt a 'Zio-Nazi'. People are loosely throwing labels here on the whole govt/people based on apparently a few hundred extremists. 



INS_Vikramaditya said:


> While there are lots of talk about Indias UN voting related to this war. One country that escaped this kind of discussion is surprisingly China. They have also abstained both the times at UNSC and UNGA while anyone would expect them to have voted in favor of Russia.



This way China gets to take a 'principle stand' of non-aggression in other countries while tacitly supporting the Russian invasion of Ukraine. In the UNSC, China didn't have to do much because of the Russian Veto...

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## Titanium100

*There is an intense battle at Volnovakha, north of Mariupol. Tanks with their heads cut off, battleships turned into colanders, soldiers who lost their lives…*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499119583667625992
They are really going at it in this front

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## QWECXZ

Meengla said:


> Maybe you are right or maybe this has to do with the ongoing Iran-America deal... And I'd be careful Zelensky govt a 'Zio-Nazi'. People are loosely throwing labels here on the whole govt/people based on apparently a few hundred extremists.


Yeah. I mean Iran is neutral about the war anyway. We do not support the Russian aggression, but we do not support Ukraine because of Zelensky and NATO either. Also, historically, prior to Zelensky taking power in Ukraine, Iran and Ukraine used to have good relations.

But there's one more reason. Russia voted in favor of the UNSC resolution that called Houthies a terrorist organization. So, that's probably another reason for Iran to abstain. Maybe if it weren't for Zelensky and NATO, Iran would've voted yes to the UNGA resolution.

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## Turingsage

Russian soldiers. Were unaware they had been sent to invade a country.


----------



## torik

1 Mig-21 of Romania lost. And soon after search&rescue helicopter lost. Black sea is getting hotter. I hope we can stay out of this

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499080826599919633

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## Titanium100

torik said:


> 1 Mig-21 of Romania lost. And soon after search&rescue helicopter lost. Black sea is getting hotter. I hope we can stay out of this



Wait what? rescue helicopter also lost? Is this the new Bermuda Triangle

Holyshxt it seems like it is true


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499124715214024716

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## Falcon29

Ich said:


> System Normal All Fucked Up



What's that mean

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## Meengla

QWECXZ said:


> Yeah. I mean Iran is neutral about the war anyway. We do not support the Russian aggression, but we do not support Ukraine because of Zelensky and NATO either. Also, historically, *prior to Zelensky taking power in Ukraine, Iran and Ukraine used to have good relations.*
> 
> But there's one more reason. Russia voted in favor of the UNSC resolution that called Houthies a terrorist organization. So, that's probably another reason for Iran to abstain. Maybe if it weren't for Zelensky and NATO, Iran would've voted yes to the UNGA resolution.



Oh, didn't know that Zelensky election changed Iran's stance.
Anyway, watch for the ongoing Iran-USA talks. America has a lot of tools to make countries change their policies. And this war is changing the geopolitical landscape pretty quickly.

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## Hassan Al-Somal




----------



## Solidify

Russia Ukraine Conflict March 2 Update
watch


----------



## Primus

Titanium100 said:


> *There is an intense battle at Volnovakha, north of Mariupol. Tanks with their heads cut off, battleships turned into colanders, soldiers who lost their lives…*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499119583667625992
> They are really going at it in this front


Which tanks were in the first part of the vid. I couldnt get a clear look at the turrets as the footage is too low res. I want to say t64


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499129214330712065


----------



## QWECXZ

Meengla said:


> Oh, didn't know that Zelensky election changed Iran's stance.
> Anyway, watch for the ongoing Iran-USA talks. America has a lot of tools to make countries change their policies. And this war is changing the geopolitical landscape pretty quickly.


Iran and the US can never get close to each other because of Israel.
There are serious issues between us. Otherwise, yes. You're right. But it doesn't work like that between Iran and the US unfortunately, which reduces the importance of Iran's options on the global stage.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499130011156164615

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## terry5

_Nabil_ said:


> Tunisia Algeria, Egypt, even Morocco isn't against Russia.
> 
> Stop spreading lies .....


I never created the map my boy lol 
Just passing on


----------



## Aesterix

Pakistan refuses to vote Against Russia at UNGA, despite pressure from many Western countries.

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## Titanium100

*Moscow: "Extremists" in Ukraine prevent civilians from leaving Kyiv, Kharkiv, Mariupol and other cities*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499129019060662283


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499132336193130500
The MiG-21 Lancer of the Romanian Air Force crashed in Constanta County.

The Romanian Ministry of Defense confirmed the fact of the accident.

▪️The fighter jet disappeared from radar 13 minutes after takeoff from Mihail Kogalniceanu airbase. The plane was patrolling over Dobruja.

▪️Local residents later reported on 112 that they heard an explosion and then noticed intense flames on the ground.

▪️ Video shows the alleged crash site.

❗️40 minutes after the disappearance of the MiG 21 Lancer from the radar, the Romanian Ministry of Defense reported a second plane crash.
▪️The IAR 303 Puma helicopter, sent to search for the missing aircraft, lost radio contact with the control room and also disappeared from radar. The pilot reported adverse weather conditions and was ordered to return to base.

▪️ There were 5 people on board the helicopter, Romanian media reported.

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## Ali_Baba

Romanian fighter jet and helicopter crash after 'huge explosion' over Black Sea - 7 dead​








Romanian fighter jet and helicopter crash after 'huge explosion' over Black Sea - 7 dead


A ROMANIAN fighter jet "disappeared off the radar" while patrolling near the coast of the Black Sea.




www.express.co.uk





>> There was reports earlier on today of a russian warship on fire - unconfirmed then - but with this - it seems it may have been true(?) and the russian navy is jittery and now is shooting first and asking questions later.


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499134199638466571


----------



## Goenitz

Paul2 said:


> Well he got a deal for the pipe, now who will build that pipe, and on whose money?


I guess LPG, through ships. Even pipeline is built, Pak is not taht big consumer.

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## Madni Bappa

Titanium100 said:


> Wait what? rescue helicopter also lost? Is this the new Bermuda Triangle
> 
> Holyshxt it seems like it is true
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499124715214024716


Ghost of Kiev ate the aircraft alive.


----------



## Ich

Falcon29 said:


> What's that mean











SNAFU - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499135948558381062

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## Madni Bappa

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499130011156164615


Looks like a false flag to me. Maybe I'm wrong

Upon review looks like both aircraft had accident due to bad weather.


----------



## Khan vilatey

Khan vilatey said:


> Pakistan along with China and India abstained from the Russia -Ukraine conflict
> 
> With the vote the way it is over 60-70 % of the worlds population is ok with this invasion
> 
> K
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 141 countries vote to condemn Russia at UN
> 
> 
> 5 countries voted against the resolution, while 35 abstained.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.axios.com



Pakistan along with China and India abstained from the Russia -Ukraine conflict

With the vote the way it is over 60-70 % of the worlds population is ok with this invasion

K

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## Madni Bappa

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499135948558381062


Translationski blyat??

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## terry5



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## kursed

iLION12345_1 said:


> Relating it to your question, I believe that this just isn’t a good example of what an actual war would be, at least not on the Pakistani-Indian front, where both armies are much much more dependent on their doctrines and battle plans and won’t be running around haplessly as the Russians and Ukrainians are (the Russians are literally losing convoys to drones that are harmless against Fighter jets…while also having complete air superiority and much superior AD). Most of these losses are very easily preventable with better planning and doctrine, as well as better inter-services cooperation.
> So this likely doesn’t change all that much for battle plans in the PA and IA, if anything our planners are probably going to study how to prevent what’s going on there right now by simply not doing what they did.


In genuine honesty, I don't think we can compare the Russian/Ukraine war with any wars in the recent past (those were fairly one-sided, with the Western powers enjoying a lop-sided advantage).

Given that Russian armor is facing somewhat modern weaponry at hands of Ukrainians and suffering due to it, where does that put our usage of armor, given Indian anti-armor capability? This is what I am most interested in knowing more about.

Do you anticipate Pakistan or India making fewer logistical, and operational mistakes than Russians or Ukrainians? (Keeping in mind events of Feb 26 and 27th both).

And I am tagging @PanzerKiel since he's written a lot about mistakes from 65', 71' wars. I'd love to know what he thinks of the current situation here and if it tells us anything about what the future might be like at our end.

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## AsianLion



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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499139522302468097


----------



## Madni Bappa

kursed said:


> In genuine honesty, I don't think we can compare the Russian/Ukraine war with any wars in the recent past (those were fairly one-sided, with the Western powers enjoying a lop-sided advantage).
> 
> Given that Russian armor is facing somewhat modern weaponry at hands of Ukrainians and suffering due to it, where does that put our usage of armor, given Indian anti-armor capability? This is what I am most interested in knowing more about.
> 
> Do you anticipate Pakistan or India making fewer logistical, and operational mistakes than Russians or Ukrainians? (Keeping in mind events of Feb 26 and 27th both).
> 
> And I am tagging @PanzerKiel since he's written a lot about mistakes from 65', 71' wars. I'd love to know what he thinks of the current situation here and if it tells us anything about what the future might be like at our end.


I don't Pakistan Air Force airlift capabilities will be able to keep up under pressure in war.


----------



## Rafi

Madni Bappa said:


> I don't Pakistan Air Force airlift capabilities will be able to keep up under pressure in war.



LoL you know nothing.

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## beast89

terry5 said:


> View attachment 820209


Love his pathetic daily briefings and him begging. No one is coming to help apart from Leon from Surrey lol.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499141439212732423

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## FairAndUnbiased

kursed said:


> In genuine honesty, I don't think we can compare the Russian/Ukraine war with any wars in the recent past (those were fairly one-sided, with the Western powers enjoying a lop-sided advantage).
> 
> Given that Russian armor is facing somewhat modern weaponry at hands of Ukrainians and suffering due to it, where does that put our usage of armor, given Indian anti-armor capability? This is what I am most interested in knowing more about.
> 
> Do you anticipate Pakistan or India making fewer logistical, and operational mistakes than Russians or Ukrainians? (Keeping in mind events of Feb 26 and 27th both).
> 
> And I am tagging @PanzerKiel since he's written a lot about mistakes from 65', 71' wars. I'd love to know what he thinks of the current situation here and if it tells us anything about what the future might be like at our end.


Incomparable. Russia is fighting this as a war of attrition now. Note that they're burning through their old stockpile of T-72s first and using artillery to raze enemy troop and supply concentrations.

India and Pakistan both cannot fight a true war of attrition because neither has stockpiles nor can produce more domestically. A few decisive battles and one side will be disarmed. That's what essentially happened in 1965 and 1971.

Russia and Ukraine on the other hand don't fight this way. Ukraine has outside supply and Russia has a gigantic stockpile + can make more.

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## Ali_Baba

Madni Bappa said:


> Looks like a false flag to me. Maybe I'm wrong
> 
> Upon review looks like both aircraft had accident due to bad weather.



that excuse does not work for 2 different types of aircraft… and fast jets are not weather affected like that ….


----------



## Madni Bappa

Rafi said:


> LoL you know nothing.


Ok teach me then

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## LeGenD

Khan vilatey said:


> Pakistan along with China and India abstained from the Russia -Ukraine conflict
> 
> With the vote the way it is over 60-70 % of the worlds population is ok with this invasion
> 
> K


FYI

_UNITED NATIONS - The United Nations General Assembly on Wednesday overwhelmingly voted to reprimand Russia for invading Ukraine and demanded that Moscow stop fighting and withdraw its military forces, an action that aims to diplomatically isolate Russia at the world body.

The resolution, supported by 141 of the assembly's 193 members, passed in a rare emergency session called by the UN Security Council while Ukrainian forces battled to defend the port of Kherson in the face of air strikes and a devastating bombardment that forced hundreds of thousands of people to flee.

The text of the resolution deplores Russia's "aggression against Ukraine." The last time the Security Council convened an emergency session of the General Assembly was in 1982, according to the UN website.

Russia was joined by Belarus, which has served as a launch pad for Russian invasion forces, Eritrea, North Korea and Syria in voting against the resolution. Thirty-five members, including China, abstained.

While General Assembly resolutions are non-binding, they carry political weight, with Wednesday's vote representing a symbolic victory for Ukraine and increasing Moscow's international isolation. Even Russia's traditional ally Serbia voted against it._









UN General Assembly in historic vote denounces Russia over Ukraine invasion


The United Nations General Assembly on Wednesday overwhelmingly voted to reprimand Russia for invading Ukraine and demanded that Moscow stop fighting and withdraw its military forces, an action that aims to diplomatically isolate Russia at the world body.




www.gmanetwork.com





*Vote count statistics*

No. of countries that voted against Russia = 141
No. of countries that remained neutral = 35
No. of countries that supported Russia = 5

Majority have condemned this war.

Many in the countries that remained neutral also condemn this war in personal capacity.

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## RescueRanger

*[Long Post Warning] - Just my thoughts on the current situation and its overreaching security implications.*






Image Source: Modern War Institute.

*War, guns and egos - A dangerous mix:*

Before I start this article, I just want to talk about how we got here. Europe has been suffering from a lack of integration and lack of engagement from its member states. To quote Jean Claude Junker *"Our Europe is not in a good state, there is not enough Europe in this union, and there is not enough union in this union".*

This epigrammatic message underlines perhaps one of the greatest challenges facing the European union, which is how will France and Germany manage their cooperation and the role Germany will play in the new Europe.

Internal power struggles and discord among Western, Central and Eastern European member states and their internal interests provides a glimpse into the general lack of political will to achieve the EU's objectives of building stability in Europe and along its strategic borders, in line with the European Neighborhood Policy, 2004.

*Security:* On the security front, with threats from hybrid warfare and frozen conflicts along the crucial eastern border with Balkan states, uncontrolled migration, risk of returning foreign fighters, asymmetric warfare and individual self-radicalization; Europe faces some considerable security challenges over the coming years.

Furthermore, the European Union's membership of NATO means that Russia sees the Union as a strategic buffer for NATO and a challenge to its long-term interests to exert Russian influence in the region bordering eastern Europe.

Russia has been engaged in testing the E.Us boundary lines and response times through snap exercises. Moscow's doctrine of Anti access and area denial seeks to deny NATO forces any access in key areas bordering Russia such as the Black Sea, Baltic Sea, the far north and eastern Mediterranean by deploying missile batteries and anti-air defenses.

*The hardening of Moscow's posture towards the EU has come as a result of the EU's stance towards Russia, which mirrors NATO policy of maintaining deterrence through superiority.

The E.U's reliance on NATO's deterrence mantra is ultimately no guarantee against small scale surprise Russian offensives such as the one seen in South Ossetia, Georgia in 2008 and the support of partisan forces as witnessed in the Crimea, ultimately due to Russia's ability to leverage its nuclear assets to its tactical advantage.*

Russia's ambition is to regain the strategic depth it lost with the dissolution of the Soviet Union should be a cause for concern for Europe.

In recent years, considering political uncertainty in Europe and U.S frustrations in Afghanistan and Syria, Russia has capitalized on the chaos to showcase its role as a major power broker.

Russia has engaged China and Pakistan to host talks with the Taliban in Afghanistan in at attempt gain importance in the international relations arena as a broker for peace and regional stability.

Russia continues to see the Georgian NATO membership bid as expansionism and thus will continue to pose a risk to E.U ambitions of stability and greater integration.

With frozen conflicts in Georgia and Ukraine, the risk of a flashpoint along the eastern border is a risk that the EU must address by taking the Visegrad group of nations into confidence on EUs future stance on Russia.

Another area of concern for Europe comes from the growing instability the Mediterranean along the border of Greece and Turkey. The slow return of irregular migrants to Turkey from Greece has frustrated EU efforts to strengthen border controls.

The Curiosity of foreign fighters:

Foreign fighters are people who fight in a foreign conflict mainly for non-financial reasons, meaning they are not mere mercenaries, and yet also are not members of a country’s regular armed forces.

What motivates foreign fighters:






Fighter Types Scheme – Adopted from [Foreign Fighters in History Maria Galperin Donnelly Et Al CSIS 2017

*Afghanistan: - Observations:*


Defending Muslims against a non-Muslim invader motivated volunteers to travel to Afghanistan
US, Saudi Arabia and Pakistani assistance allowed recruiting networks to develop
The evolution of volunteers from international humanitarian workers to fighters helped establish credibility and militant networks that would drive future conflict.
In 2001 the presence of foreign fighters before the start of the US-led campaign in October 2001 and promotion of the so called GWOT concept re-established Afghanistan as a key supranational struggle.
*Bosnia – Observations:*

Migrant fighters from Afghanistan brought funding networks, credibility, and military experience to the conflict.
The influx of foreign fighters shifted the conflict from a national struggle to a supranatural jihad.
Foreign fighters began filming and distributing videos and using media more extensively as a recruiting tool.
*Chechnya - Observations:*

A local struggle for autonomy wad co-opted by an inter-connected well-financed and growing group of mobile violent extremists.
The fighters extensive combat experience made them more military effective than in prior conflicts and sped acceptance among local forces.
Enhanced information technology facilitated wider and more effective recruiting, the first example of "jihad through the TV".
*"In the modern age, the media has become more important than rifles and guns." - Emir Khattab*​
*Iraq – Observations:*

GWOT rhetoric and practices inflamed Muslim public opinion against the US and promoted recruitment
AQN brought its networks and brand identity. Veteran fighters offered experience, credibility and funding.
Sectarian conflict deepened the humanitarian crisis, pulling in more fighters.
*Unlike many local fighters who fought for tribal, local or national aims, foreign fighters brought global ideologies to the conflict.
*Syria - Observations:*

Pre-existing networks regrouped for the anti-Assad battle
Sectarian conflict, and a severe humanitarian crisis attracted foreign volunteers, shifting the struggle from a purely national civil war to a supranational jihadist conflict.
The regime fomented militancy to justify a brutal crackdown.
*Islamic state – Observations:*

The declaration of a caliphate enabled the Islamic state to recruit more broadly based on a narrative of statehood.
Territorial control provided for new revenue sources: ushur (taxation), oil proceeds and extortion
The internet and social media expanded networks and recruitment globally
Extraordinary numbers of foreign fighter recruits served as force multipliers
Proto statehood made the Islamic state an easier target to degrade, reducing the space for foreign fighters to operate.
*Present day and Foreign fighters in Ukraine and Russia conflicts:*




In none of the conflicts in the post-Soviet area have so many foreign fighters participated than in the conflict in eastern Ukraine since 2014. It is estimated that more than 17,000 fighters from 55 countries have fought there on either side.




More than 17,000 of these fighters probably have participated on both sides of the conflict in Ukraine, this number is likely to increase subsequently in the coming weeks and months.

The largest group among them are Russians who are not members of the Russian armed forces. These number more than 15,000, including 3,000 on the Ukrainian side. More than 2,000 fighters have come from 54 other countries around the world, including:


Belarus (800)
Germany (160)
Georgia (150)
Serbia (100)
Poland (20)
Most of the fighters are Europeans but others are from the U.S. (30), Canada (10), Australia (10), Brazil (4), Colombia (4), Chile (3), India (2), and New Zealand (1).

About 75% of the total number of fighters have fought on the side of the pro-Russia separatists. Some have been new to combat but many in Ukraine had experience from other conflicts, military service, or even the French Foreign Legion.

The fighters’ motivations have included various ideologies, historical memory (grievance), political attitude, nationalism, or ethnic or religious factors. Even on opposite sides, some fighters have held similar views, such as beliefs in pan-Slavism, far-right ideology, racism, or fascination with authoritarian systems.

Foreign fighters entered on the Ukrainian side in 2014 when state defense structures were weak and some defensive functions were taken over by paramilitary units open to foreign fighters, with the consent of the new authorities. The inflow of fighters on the opposing side was stimulated by Russia, which organized the separatists’ militias, recruited and transported foreign fighters to Ukraine, and conducted propaganda.

Certain formations such as the Azov Regiment, Aidar Battalion, Donbas Battalion, or Right Sector have played a significant role in the fight against the pro-Russia separatists. While foreign fighters themselves have had limited impact on the course of the conflict (only amounting to about 1% of those involved in the fighting), their experience has been important for recruiting new volunteers, conducting paramilitary training, intelligence operations, and propaganda activities.

*Azov Battalion* has direct links and inspired from the banned far-right terrorist group Combat 18. The symbol adopted by the Azov Battalion is the Horizontally aligned Wolfsangel which was used by then 2nd SS panzer Div.











In 2018 Time magazine published a detailed article on Azov Battalion. In his report Simon Shuster wrote


> *“Its fighters resemble the other para-military units—and there are dozens of them—that have helped defend Ukraine against the Russian military over the past six years. But Azov is much more than a militia. It has its own political party; two publishing houses; summer camps for children; and a vigilante force known as the National Militia, which patrols the streets of Ukrainian cities alongside the police. Unlike its ideological peers in the U.S. and Europe, it also has a military wing with at least two training bases and a vast arsenal of weapons, from drones and armoured vehicles to artillery pieces.*
> 
> _*Outside Ukraine, Azov occupies a central role in a network of extremist groups stretching from California across Europe to New Zealand, according to law enforcement officials on three continents. And it acts as a magnet for young men eager for combat experience.”*_



*The threat posed by foreign fighters linked with extremist groups such as Azov is highlighted by Ali Soufan, a security consultant and former FBI agent who has studied Azov, estimates that more than 17,000 foreign fighters have come to Ukraine over the past six years from 50 countries.*









How a White-Supremacist Militia Uses Facebook to Radicalize and Train New Members


This Ukrainian militant group’s use of social media has been key to their international growth




time.com





Furthermore, units in which foreign fighters participated were not part of the chain of command of the Ukrainian armed forces, which gave them broad freedom of action.

Some which draw on neo-Nazi ideology developed contacts with other radical organisations in Europe (such as the British National Action, the German National Democratic Party, the Italian CasaPound, and the Polish Stormtroopers), organising training, conducting propaganda activities, and recruiting other fighters in Ukraine and abroad (e.g., Azov Regiment recruited volunteers during neo-Nazi festivals in the UK and Germany). Some of the units have been involved in criminal activities, including arms smuggling, and in war crimes, such as the dissolved Tornado Group. Some have decided to live in Ukraine and apply for Ukrainian citizenship.

*Notable Far Right extremist groups in Europe with links directly or indirectly to Azov Movement:*





To limit the threats related to paramilitary forces, these units were subordinated to the Ministry of the Interior, Ministry of Defence, or incorporated into the National Guard. Initially, not all agreed, and some were dissolved, but some retained broad autonomy, only coordinating their activities with Ukraine’s army (including Right Sector and formations subordinated to it that include foreign fighters).

*Russia’s Use of Foreign Fighters*

During the annexation of Crimea and in its aggression in eastern Ukraine, Russia has used irregular units, including foreign fighters, employed through private military companies (PMCs), special services, “patriotic organizations,” and criminal groups operating in Russia and other countries, such as Belarus, Moldova, Kazakhstan, and Serbia. On the separatist side, units with foreign fighters, including Bryanka SSSR, the Oplot Brigade, the Ghost Brigade (Prizrak), the Rusich Company, and Vostok Battalion, were directly involved in the fight against Ukrainian forces.

The influx of foreign fighters on the separatist side internationalized the conflict and was intended to provide support by fighters experienced in military tactics. At the same time, foreign fighters on the Ukrainian side have been the subject of Russian propaganda, especially the participation of neo-Nazis in the Azov Regiment or ISIS veterans in Tatar battalions.

Stimulation of the inflow of foreign fighters has become a permanent element of hybrid operations conducted by Russia, including in other countries. Foreign fighters from Ukraine (sometimes also those fighting on the Ukrainian side) have been recruited by Russian PMCs, including the famous Wagner Group. As mercenaries, they took part in other conflicts, including in Syria, Libya, Sudan, Central Africa, and Mozambique.




Russian security services—notably, the special unit GRU 29155—has used foreign fighters for subversive activities and as agents of influence in other countries (including the preparation of a coup in Montenegro in 2016). Some of the foreign fighters leaving Ukraine have infiltrated the security institutions of their home countries.




Guillaume Cuvelier, one of the leaders of the foreign fighters on the separatist side in Ukraine, was awarded a medal of bravery by Igor Girkin, a GRU officer and the creator of the separatist military structures. Cuvelier concealed his past and joined the U.S. Army in 2017 before being discharged a few months later.



*Risks for other countries:*

Beyond individuals operating in theatres in the Middle East and North Africa, Foreign fighters on both sides of the conflict in Ukraine have taken part in subsequent conflicts, including fighting on the side of the Kurds against ISIS in Syria and Iraq or working as mercenaries.

Some have also been involved in radical activities in their own countries (militant activity within the yellow-vest protests in Paris, which started in 2018), building radical organizations, or trading arms on EU territory.






On 15 July, Italian police, investigating far-right groups that had fighters who had been in Ukraine, arrested three suspects, during which an arsenal intended for sale to Libya was discovered, including an air-to-air missile, 26 firearms, and 20 bayonets. Foreign fighters have also engaged in terrorist activities—the perpetrator of the attacks on 15 March in Christchurch, New Zealand, had been involved in the conflict in Ukraine.






Polish territory has been used by foreign fighters, including for transit to Ukraine, some involving illegal crossings—in 2014, a group of Chechens from Denmark crossed the “green” border with Ukraine in the Carpathian Mountains (Eastern Beskids).

*Chetniks Bratislav Živković*






In Poland, foreign fighters have organized lectures (one by the leader of the pro-Russian Serbian Chetniks Bratislav Živković in 2016), given interviews, raised funds, and organized paramilitary exercises (Tactical Group Belarus in Warsaw in 2017).

*Benjamin Fisher*






Foreign fighters have been arrested in Poland (Austrian Benjamin Fisher in April 2017), however, a huge number of them freely conducted their activities in Poland and in other EU countries.




On 27 February 2022, Ukraine invited foreign nationals to join its armed forces as it seeks to repel Russia’s invasion. Volodymyr Zelensky, President of Ukraine, announced the establishment of the “International Legion of Territorial Defence in Ukraine” in a written statement on Sunday.

The move is reminiscent of the International Brigades that fought during the Spanish Civil War (1936-1939) with the Republicans. Foreign ministers in Canada and the United Kingdom voiced support for any of its citizens joining Ukraine’s armed forces. However, critics say this would be "reckless and illegal".

*Lessons not learned:*

A common related concern is that the returnees will serve as heroic examples and recruit, or help the recruiters attract, new fighters for the cause. This seems to be a somewhat valid risk in Ukraine, albeit it seems to be most pronounced while the fighters are still on the battlefield rather than upon their return. Namely, most foreign fighters claim to have been inspired by social media posts by other fighters on the battlefield and have found their way to Ukraine through social networks – reaching out to the fighters they knew or approaching unfamiliar prominent fighters.

For instance, Malet (2015) has found that the heroic effect of foreign fighters serving as inspiration to others through social media is much greater while they are still active in the conflict, compared to when they return home.






A noteworthy example here would be the Christchurch shooter – an Australian extremist, who claims to have visited Ukraine (although does not appear to have participated in the fighting) and references the conflict in the infamous manifesto he distributed as justification for shooting up a mosque in New Zealand in 2019.

With the growing international prevalence of lone-wolf terrorism (as opposed to organized terrorist groups), the concerns about self-radicalization are justifiably on the rise – but it seems yet again that radicalism is feeding into the conflict in Ukraine more so than the other way around: the Christchurch manifesto has been promptly translated into Russian, Ukrainian, and other less-common languages and was reportedly making the rounds among the far right fighters, including the Azov battalion (Bellingcat 2019).

Another example is that of "Mosque Bomb teen" Pavlo Lapshyn A Ukrainian student who travelled to the UK and murdering 82-year-old man and plotted explosions near mosques..






*Conclusion:*

Foreign volunteers intensify the conflicts to which they travel and can destabilize the countries to which they travel next. With the increasingly complexity of the humanitarian crisis on the borders of Ukraine and diversity of combat experience, weapons proliferation and converging risks, nations in Europe need to consider the genuine and ever-present risk promoting and supporting foreign fighters within its borders poses to local, regional and global security.

*References:*
BBC News. 2022. Italy seizes 'combat-ready' missile in raids on far right. [online] Available at: <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48987723> [Accessed 2 March 2022].

Time. 2022. _How a White-Supremacist Militia Uses Facebook to Radicalize and Train New Members_. [online] Available at: <https://time.com/5926750/azov-far-right-movement-facebook/> [Accessed 2 March 2022].

Beliakova, P., 2022. _Volunteer troops can be a curse, not a blessing. But Ukraine may be figuring it out_. [online] Revista de Prensa. Available at: <https://www.almendron.com/tribuna/v...-blessing-but-ukraine-may-be-figuring-it-out/> [Accessed 2 March 2022].

Beliakova, P., 2022. _Volunteer troops can be a curse, not a blessing. But Ukraine may be figuring it out_. [online] Revista de Prensa. Available at: <https://www.almendron.com/tribuna/v...-blessing-but-ukraine-may-be-figuring-it-out/> [Accessed 2 March 2022].

Vilniusinstitute.lt. 2022. [online] Available at: <https://vilniusinstitute.lt/wp-cont...TERS-IN-UKRAINE-ASSESSING-POTENTIAL-RISKS.pdf> [Accessed 2 March 2022].

Donnelly, Maria Galperin, et al. _Foreign Fighters in History_. Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), 2017, http://www.jstor.org/stable/resrep23304.

Arkansas Online. 2022. _Army ousts soldier with militant past_. [online] Available at: <https://www.nwaonline.com/news/2017/may/30/army-ousts-soldier-militant-past/> [Accessed 2 March 2022].

Unodc.org. 2022. [online] Available at: <https://www.unodc.org/documents/terrorism/Publications/FTF SSEA/Foreign_Terrorist_Fighters_Asia_Ebook.pdf> [Accessed 2 March 2022].

Boutin, B., Chauzal, G., Dorsey, J., Jegerings, M., Paulussen, C., Pohl, J., Reed, A. and Zavagli, S., 2016. The Foreign Fighters Phenomenon in the European Union. _International Centre for Counter Terrorism_,.

@LeGenD

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## Pappa Alpha

One thing is clear that when you are fighting against opponents with modern and effective anti tank and anti air capabilities then you are going to take losses. No way around it. You can either play it safe and take your time or do a fast invasion with _acceptable_ losses. 

This also highlights the importance of lower tech tanks and drones which can be mass produced if the war drags on for months or years.

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## Hallian_Khan

LeGenD said:


> FYI
> 
> _UNITED NATIONS - The United Nations General Assembly on Wednesday overwhelmingly voted to reprimand Russia for invading Ukraine and demanded that Moscow stop fighting and withdraw its military forces, an action that aims to diplomatically isolate Russia at the world body.
> 
> The resolution, supported by 141 of the assembly's 193 members, passed in a rare emergency session called by the UN Security Council while Ukrainian forces battled to defend the port of Kherson in the face of air strikes and a devastating bombardment that forced hundreds of thousands of people to flee.
> 
> The text of the resolution deplores Russia's "aggression against Ukraine." The last time the Security Council convened an emergency session of the General Assembly was in 1982, according to the UN website.
> 
> Russia was joined by Belarus, which has served as a launch pad for Russian invasion forces, Eritrea, North Korea and Syria in voting against the resolution. Thirty-five members, including China, abstained.
> 
> While General Assembly resolutions are non-binding, they carry political weight, with Wednesday's vote representing a symbolic victory for Ukraine and increasing Moscow's international isolation. Even Russia's traditional ally Serbia voted against it._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN General Assembly in historic vote denounces Russia over Ukraine invasion
> 
> 
> The United Nations General Assembly on Wednesday overwhelmingly voted to reprimand Russia for invading Ukraine and demanded that Moscow stop fighting and withdraw its military forces, an action that aims to diplomatically isolate Russia at the world body.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gmanetwork.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Vote count statistics*
> 
> No. of countries which voted against Russia = 141
> No. of countries which remained neutral = 35
> No. of countries which supported Russia = 5
> 
> Majority have condemned this war.
> 
> Many in the countries that remained neutral also condemn this war in personal capacity.


FYI, he was talking about population not countries

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## jamal18

Khan vilatey said:


> Pakistan along with China and India abstained from the Russia -Ukraine conflict
> 
> With the vote the way it is over 60-70 % of the worlds population is ok with this invasion
> 
> K


Sure? I thought 130 countries condemned it, 30 abstained.


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## LeGenD

Hallian_Khan said:


> FYI, he was talking about population not countries


I understand what he wrote - it does not make sense. Many in 35 countries which chose neutrality in UN condemn this war on personal level; official position of these countries is another matter.


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## Iñigo

Chechen

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## Khan vilatey

jamal18 said:


> Sure? I thought 130 countries condemned it, 30 abstained.


Here is the link to the news item

35 abstained









141 countries vote to condemn Russia at UN


5 countries voted against the resolution, while 35 abstained.




www.axios.com







LeGenD said:


> FYI
> 
> _UNITED NATIONS - The United Nations General Assembly on Wednesday overwhelmingly voted to reprimand Russia for invading Ukraine and demanded that Moscow stop fighting and withdraw its military forces, an action that aims to diplomatically isolate Russia at the world body.
> 
> The resolution, supported by 141 of the assembly's 193 members, passed in a rare emergency session called by the UN Security Council while Ukrainian forces battled to defend the port of Kherson in the face of air strikes and a devastating bombardment that forced hundreds of thousands of people to flee.
> 
> The text of the resolution deplores Russia's "aggression against Ukraine." The last time the Security Council convened an emergency session of the General Assembly was in 1982, according to the UN website.
> 
> Russia was joined by Belarus, which has served as a launch pad for Russian invasion forces, Eritrea, North Korea and Syria in voting against the resolution. Thirty-five members, including China, abstained.
> 
> While General Assembly resolutions are non-binding, they carry political weight, with Wednesday's vote representing a symbolic victory for Ukraine and increasing Moscow's international isolation. Even Russia's traditional ally Serbia voted against it._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN General Assembly in historic vote denounces Russia over Ukraine invasion
> 
> 
> The United Nations General Assembly on Wednesday overwhelmingly voted to reprimand Russia for invading Ukraine and demanded that Moscow stop fighting and withdraw its military forces, an action that aims to diplomatically isolate Russia at the world body.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gmanetwork.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Vote count statistics*
> 
> No. of countries that voted against Russia = 141
> No. of countries that remained neutral = 35
> No. of countries that supported Russia = 5
> 
> Majority have condemned this war.
> 
> Many in the countries that remained neutral also condemn this war.


The population of Russia , China, Pakistan , India and most of Africa is equal to 70% of the globe yes countries like Singapore ,Tuvalu etc. have very small populations.







K

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499083826886328320


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499115827857133573

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## LeGenD

Khan vilatey said:


> Here is the link to the news item
> 
> 35 abstained
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 141 countries vote to condemn Russia at UN
> 
> 
> 5 countries voted against the resolution, while 35 abstained.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.axios.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The population of Russia , China, Pakistan , India and most of Africa is equal to 70% of the globe yes countries like Singapore ,Tuvalu etc. have very small populations.
> 
> 
> View attachment 820222
> 
> 
> K


Bro, your assumption is flawed.

India and China - these 2 countries have a combined population of 2.8 billion people (roughly 40% of global population).

In United Nations (UN), each country has 1 vote. Both India and China chose neutrality in regards to Russia-Ukraine War - this is OFFICIAL position of these two countries - this does not suggest that everybody in India and China supports Russia-Ukraine War (or is indifferent to it) in personal capacity. Come on now.


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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499145841793191942


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## Windjammer

This war if nothing has laid bare hypocracy in an exemplary manner.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499149914672140291


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## Ali_Baba

Middle-class Russians banned from fleeing with their wealth as sanctions start to bite


Kremlin tightens grip on well-off citizens by barring them from leaving the country with more than $10,000




www.telegraph.co.uk





meltdown of Russia is beginning. Russias best want to leave before the iron curtain comes down.

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## Goenitz

That Guy said:


> Lol. A 2 day job turned into a week, with no realistic timetable on completion of major objectives.


Can be incompetency or poor estimation..
but the main thing is that Russians see at least those regional Slavs their own.. so They are a little soft. It is not like US invading Iraq or Afghansitan where they can fire indiscriminately or bomb Baghdad 40 days straight.

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## RescueRanger

IFC2422 Indian C17 complting evacuation of Indian citizens via Poland Rzeszów-Jasionka Airport.

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## LeGenD

New set of sanctions imposed on Russia have started to impact Pakistan as well.

*Pakistan horticulture exports hit by Russia-Ukraine war*

In a letter to the Ministry of Commerce, Pakistan’s fruit and vegetable exporters have informed that their exports and payments from importers in Russia and Ukraine have stuck-up after the outbreak of war.

“The exporters of our sector who export Kinnow & Potato to Russia & Ukraine have been severely hit by this conflict,” said the exporters in the letter on Wednesday.

“The payments from Russia have been stuck up due to sanctions on Russia and now the exporters are facing liquidity problems. If the war further prolongs, this issue of payment would be further deepened and hence there is a dire need to put some sort of “Financial Mechanism” its place to resolve this serious issue,” the letter which addressed Adbul Razaq Dawood Advisor to Prime Minister on Economy, trade and investment said.

Apart from the payment issue, the horticulture exporters claim that the export proceeds is required to be remitted to Pakistan against E-forms within a time frame of 120 days, however under the prevailing war conditions, it is more likely that the exporters may be unable to meet this time frame as the E-Forms which are now “overdue” would lead to various other problems.

“It is therefore requested that the time frame of these E-Forms may kindly be extended keeping the specific conditions due to war in view between Russia & Ukraine,” it added.

According to Waheed Ahmed head of Pakistan Fruit and Vegetables Exporters, Importers and Merchant Association the war brings misery for everyone and the exporters are no exception to this phenomenon & they pay a huge price by sustaining huge financial losses. Timely intervention of the ministry of commerce could save the exporters from huge losses.

“We strongly anticipate that the issue would be resolved on priority basis to extend relief to the “worried exporters” so that they can focus on the primary objective of exports’ enhancement,” he added.

It may be added here that in the span of just a few days of the Russia-Ukraine war, the global economic outlook has darkened as unexpectedly potent financial sanctions rocked Russia’s economy and threatened to further fuel worldwide inflation.

The price of oil, natural gas and other staples have started rising. At the same time, the groaning weight on supply chains, still laboring from the pandemic, rose as the United States, Europe and their allies tightened the screws on Russia’s financial transactions and froze hundreds of billions of dollars of the central bank’s assets that are held abroad.









Pakistan horticulture exports hit by Russia-Ukraine war


ISLAMABAD: As the financial sanctions imposed following the Russian- Ukraine war have started affecting the global economy, Pakistan’s exports are also going to face the impact.In a letter to t




www.pakistantoday.com.pk

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## gambit

Meengla said:


> I stand by I said: We would not be in this situation had militaristic moves were not made against Russia after 1991. Free choice?? Have you given thought to a sovereign Cuba not allowed to host Russian missiles?? At least in case of Cuba there was some sea between the mainland USA and Cuba. Hypocrisy much?? Here, just as USSR fell, *the biggest inducement for the West was to make the newly independent countries to join a military alliance against Russia right next to its border as in case for the Baltic countries.* Russia in 1991 was spent force and I believe would have become part of Europe given time but some powers couldn't wait.


I thought Russia made a *WRITTEN* promise to Ukraine not to attack Ukraine if Ukraine made themselves vulnerable to Russian attack. Granted, that written promise has no legal enforcement, but once the world see that Ukraine gave up 1700 nuclear warheads on a non-legal promise, it is going to be hard to blame Ukraine for this war.

Each nuclear warhead is a security assurance. Ukraine gave up 1700 security assurances based on a non-legal promise from Russia. Yes, the US/UK gave input as to how the world do not need more nuclear weapons states, etc...etc...But Ukraine was not worried about being invaded by a US/UK alliance for natural resources, nuclear weapons, territorial expansion, or women. Instead, Russia seduced Ukraine. Now, Russia invaded Ukraine for natural resources, territorial expansion, and women. Three out of four ain't bad.

So am going to distill your stance about Ukraine thus:

Girl, you are wearing too much make up and your skirt is too short, so you deserved to be raped.
Girl, you looked at another man, so am going to rape you to teach you a lesson and show others a warning.
Either reason are good enough for what Russia did.



Meengla said:


> *PS. It is interesting that Iran abstained from the UNGA vote??!! *


No one cared, really.



Titanium100 said:


> I somewhat agree with this due to the massive support Ukraine is recieving they could bleed russia but they need expertise in insurgency war in the eastern part which Russia intends to fully occupy. But the jury is still out and I wouldn't discount the Ukrainians as they have shown great bravery hence they are in the game and anything can happen


No country is an 'expert' in insurgency warfare or even need to be in order to create problems for the enemy. Insurgency warfare is pretty much OJT.

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## RescueRanger

LeGenD said:


> Russia is now deploying An-2 biplanes to support its ongoing military operation in Ukraine.
> 
> _While the air war in the first week of the Kremlin’s invasion of Ukraine has been dominated by apparent cruise missile strikes launched from bombers, extensive rotary-wing activity, and multiple, unconfirmed reports of air combat involving Russian and Ukrainian jets, one surprising participant looks to be waiting in the wings. The Russian Aerospace Forces’ (VKS) An-2 Colt biplane, a rugged, agricultural-looking design first flown in 1947, could well be getting ready for action over Ukraine, although the exact role it might fulfill remains puzzling.
> 
> Although designed primarily for crop-dusting, the An-2 proved to be a highly adaptable aircraft for both civilian and military operators. Even today it remains in frontline service both for various types of special operations work, including in an armed configuration. More commonly, however, it’s used as a training aircraft, especially for paratroopers.
> 
> Aerial imagery and accompanying analysis from the satellite imagery and space technology firm Maxar Technologies indicates that a considerable number of An-2s have now been moved to Seshcha Air Base in Bryansk Oblast, a region in western Russia, which shares a border to northern Ukraine._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Appears To Be Preparing Its Ancient An-2 Biplanes For War In Ukraine
> 
> 
> A large number of the distinctive Cold War-era utility planes have appeared at an airfield close to the Ukrainian border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com


Legend I am 100% certain now that soviet commanders play War Thunder:





But seriously though, this is a very smart move by Russia because the Anti Air and Anti Tank capacity of the advanced kit donated to Ukraine has been very effective:

*The An-2s have likely been converted to drones and could be used as decoys to simulate helicopter or UAV formations to draw out Ukraine's air defenses. Malyasov note that Azerbaijan employed this strategy against Armenia with great success in the 2020 conflict over Nagorno-Karabakh. Electronic warfare aircraft have also been deployed to Seshcha, joining the combat aircraft deployed in mid-February."*

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## NotSure

Next level trolling:

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## RescueRanger

Titanium100 said:


> *There is an intense battle at Volnovakha, north of Mariupol. Tanks with their heads cut off, battleships turned into colanders, soldiers who lost their lives…*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499119583667625992
> They are really going at it in this front


They are talking in Russian.


----------



## Madni Bappa

LeGenD said:


> New set of sanctions imposed on Russia have started to impact Pakistan as well.
> 
> *Pakistan horticulture exports hit by Russia-Ukraine war*
> 
> In a letter to the Ministry of Commerce, Pakistan’s fruit and vegetable exporters have informed that their exports and payments from importers in Russia and Ukraine have stuck-up after the outbreak of war.
> 
> “The exporters of our sector who export Kinnow & Potato to Russia & Ukraine have been severely hit by this conflict,” said the exporters in the letter on Wednesday.
> 
> “The payments from Russia have been stuck up due to sanctions on Russia and now the exporters are facing liquidity problems. If the war further prolongs, this issue of payment would be further deepened and hence there is a dire need to put some sort of “Financial Mechanism” its place to resolve this serious issue,” the letter which addressed Adbul Razaq Dawood Advisor to Prime Minister on Economy, trade and investment said.
> 
> Apart from the payment issue, the horticulture exporters claim that the export proceeds is required to be remitted to Pakistan against E-forms within a time frame of 120 days, however under the prevailing war conditions, it is more likely that the exporters may be unable to meet this time frame as the E-Forms which are now “overdue” would lead to various other problems.
> 
> “It is therefore requested that the time frame of these E-Forms may kindly be extended keeping the specific conditions due to war in view between Russia & Ukraine,” it added.
> 
> According to Waheed Ahmed head of Pakistan Fruit and Vegetables Exporters, Importers and Merchant Association the war brings misery for everyone and the exporters are no exception to this phenomenon & they pay a huge price by sustaining huge financial losses. Timely intervention of the ministry of commerce could save the exporters from huge losses.
> 
> “We strongly anticipate that the issue would be resolved on priority basis to extend relief to the “worried exporters” so that they can focus on the primary objective of exports’ enhancement,” he added.
> 
> It may be added here that in the span of just a few days of the Russia-Ukraine war, the global economic outlook has darkened as unexpectedly potent financial sanctions rocked Russia’s economy and threatened to further fuel worldwide inflation.
> 
> The price of oil, natural gas and other staples have started rising. At the same time, the groaning weight on supply chains, still laboring from the pandemic, rose as the United States, Europe and their allies tightened the screws on Russia’s financial transactions and froze hundreds of billions of dollars of the central bank’s assets that are held abroad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan horticulture exports hit by Russia-Ukraine war
> 
> 
> ISLAMABAD: As the financial sanctions imposed following the Russian- Ukraine war have started affecting the global economy, Pakistan’s exports are also going to face the impact.In a letter to t
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pakistantoday.com.pk


Can Russia use China as frontman to trade with other nations?

We put the money in China. Get the product. After some time money goes to Russia through China. 


If these corrupt Nawaz, Zardari can do this. Why can't we do this as a nation???


----------



## Ali_Baba

RescueRanger said:


> *The An-2s have likely been converted to drones and could be used as decoys to simulate helicopter or UAV formations to draw out Ukraine's air defenses. Malyasov note that Azerbaijan employed this strategy against Armenia with great success in the 2020 conflict over Nagorno-Karabakh. Electronic warfare aircraft have also been deployed to Seshcha, joining the combat aircraft deployed in mid-February."*


The nato air picture being provided to Ukraine will detect and report on this - so it won’t have the same value as what was done in Azerbaijan conflict.

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## Elias MC

Madni Bappa said:


> Translationski blyat??




Ukrainian refugees are fleeing en masse from the oppression of Banderivtsi. They are also found in large numbers on the path of our troops. On these shootings, they are assisted by fighters under the leadership of dear BROTHER, commander Hussein Mezhidov. Our guys find them shelter, put them in a safe place, transfer their provisions. No international organization, including the OSCE, cares about these people.


The OSCE, by the way, does nothing but useless rides in large beautiful columns of foreign cars throughout Ukraine. At the same time, unfortunate people are, to put it mildly, in a bad position. They do not know what to do and where to go from Banderivtsi's tyranny.


I ask the leadership of Ukraine and all those who should and are obliged to directly deal with such humanitarian issues not to sit in bunkers and other safe places, but to start saving the destitute people. Help them, equip them, allocate food, support at least somehow. Stop, in the end, thinking only about yourself and about your interests! Your attitude towards these unfortunate people only proves once again that we are on the right track. And therefore, let the whole world unanimously take up arms against us, but we will free them from Nazi domination.

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## jamal18

Goenitz said:


> Can be incompetency or poor estimation..
> but the main thing is that Russians see at least those regional Slavs their own.. so They are a little soft. It is not like US invading Iraq or Afghansitan where they can fire indiscriminately or bomb Baghdad 40 days straight.


The firepower they have unleashed is a fraction of what the Americans unleashed.

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## LeGenD

China’s manufacturers feel the pain of Ukraine crisis as customers have ‘no desire to pay’​
Manufacturers in China are starting to feel the pain of the unfolding crisis in Ukraine as financial sanctions placed on Russia have started to filter through to export customers.

Commerce Minister Wang Wentao said on Tuesday that China was hoping to “promote our normal trade” with both Russia and Ukraine, with Beijing still attempting to walk the diplomatic tightrope between Moscow and Kyiv.

“My Ukrainian and Russian business has been directly impacted,” said Bob Yao, co-founder of a digital printing production company in Guangdong province.

“We lost contact with my Ukraine client. And another Russian customer sounded no desire to pay and let us deliver goods all at once because the rouble has been devalued.”

China is the largest trading partner of both Russia and Ukraine, but Yao said the impact of Russia’s invasion has even spread to customers in other regions.

“A customer in Central Asia informed us on Tuesday that he has decided to postpone payment and shipping plans for six containers, because of concerns over world affairs,” he added.

Manufacturers in the world’s factory, especially small and medium-sized enterprises in the industrial sector, have expressed pessimism about the future of the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) market.

The CIS was formed following the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, with Azerbaijan, Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Moldova, Russia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Ukraine full member states.

*FULL READ* in following link:









‘No desire to pay’: China’s manufacturers feel the pain of Ukraine crisis


China is the largest trading partner of both Russia and Ukraine, but sanctions from the US and its European allies have started to be felt by customers in both countries.




www.scmp.com

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## PakAlp



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## Madni Bappa

gambit said:


> I thought Russia made a *WRITTEN* promise to Ukraine not to attack Ukraine if Ukraine made themselves vulnerable to Russian attack. Granted, that written promise has no legal enforcement, but once the world see that Ukraine gave up 1700 nuclear warheads on a non-legal promise, it is going to be hard to blame Ukraine for this war.
> 
> Each nuclear warhead is a security assurance. Ukraine gave up 1700 security assurances based on a non-legal promise from Russia. Yes, the US/UK gave input as to how the world do not need more nuclear weapons states, etc...etc...But Ukraine was not worried about being invaded by a US/UK alliance for natural resources, nuclear weapons, territorial expansion, or women. Instead, Russia seduced Ukraine. Now, Russia invaded Ukraine for natural resources, territorial expansion, and women. Three out of four ain't bad.
> 
> So am going to distill your stance about Ukraine thus:
> 
> Girl, you are wearing too much make up and your skirt is too short, so you deserved to be raped.
> Girl, you looked at another man, so am going to rape you to teach you a lesson and show others a warning.
> Either reason are good enough for what Russia did.
> 
> 
> No one cared, really.
> 
> 
> No country is an 'expert' in insurgency warfare or even need to be in order to create problems for the enemy. Insurgency warfare is pretty much OJT.


Wassup big bro? You never replied???

You americans have a habit of talking smack about your weaker ill equipped enemies and then getting your asses kicked.

Your military successes were either carried by some other ethnicities or people propped up by you. or countries who were already very weak economically and militarily. or were made weak by coward sanctions together by your cronies

Going all the way back to spanish american war. all your wars started based on yellow dot journalism and lies. in almost all your conflicts some usn ship is conveniently nearby and is attacked. so you can go in and annihiliate countries weaker than you

You set the charge, prep the primer, light the fuse, wait for it to blow up. then storm down from helicopters like team america. you train and fund proxies, tell them through liason officers to do some beheadings. then show up as world police to solve the problem. 










Did you learn this from your own corrupt police that plants fake evidence on suspects??


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499156845222629380

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## RescueRanger

When the US and NATO say they don't have people on the ground. Make of that statement what you will, ofcourse they don't have "Serving" people on the ground in Ukraine. And that explains a lot about the effectiveness of the irregular warfare tactics deployed in defense of many cities. 
Patch of the "Forward Observation Group"




*Alleged "EX" US SF attached to the Forward Observation Group in Kyiv*

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## Primus

RescueRanger said:


> Legend I am 100% certain now that soviet commanders play War Thunder:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But seriously though, this is a very smart move by Russia because the Anti Air and Anti Tank capacity of the advanced kit donated to Ukraine has been very effective:
> 
> *The An-2s have likely been converted to drones and could be used as decoys to simulate helicopter or UAV formations to draw out Ukraine's air defenses. Malyasov note that Azerbaijan employed this strategy against Armenia with great success in the 2020 conflict over Nagorno-Karabakh. Electronic warfare aircraft have also been deployed to Seshcha, joining the combat aircraft deployed in mid-February."*


Quick Q, do you play WT? If so which nation do you main?


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499137403419828224

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## RescueRanger

Huffal said:


> Quick Q, do you play WT? If so which nation do you main?


Yes I do, I mainly play US because they have the best tanks <3.

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## Madni Bappa

Spasiba. Prekrasna Bro


Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499156845222629380


----------



## Primus

RescueRanger said:


> Yes I do, I mainly play US because they have the best tanks <3.


Ew a US main. Cant complain, the top tier lineup is pretty OP and fun... (might get even more OP with the possible addition of the A10 next patch). 

German main over here though. Fear my mighty leo 2a6 which i dont have enough SL for hehehehe....

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499157572556922882
Partisans continue to hunt occupiers...


----------



## RescueRanger

Huffal said:


> Ew a US main. Cant complain, the top tier lineup is pretty OP and fun... (might get even more OP with the possible addition of the A10 next patch).
> 
> German main over here though. Fear my mighty leo 2a6 which i dont have enough SL for hehehehe....


I love the Leopards, especially those who have enough crew points in keen vision and targeting 



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499157572556922882
> Partisans continue to hunt occupiers...


Respectfully we have a policy about showing gore here. Thank you.



Windjammer said:


> This war if nothing has laid bare hypocracy in an exemplary manner.
> 
> View attachment 820224


Hahah elite level trolling.

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## Primus

RescueRanger said:


> I love the Leopards, especially those who have enough crew points in keen vision and targeting


And some say Germany suffers. Those that say it are usually those that havent played in the other nations tech tree. 

P.s how many hours you have in game?


----------



## reflecthofgeismar

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499157572556922882
> Partisans continue to hunt occupiers...



I reject unnecessary wars but partisans who fight without clearly recognizable insignia should always be shot or tortured (extracting information) and then shot. Hanging would also work as a deterrent.
It can't be that the weaker party start to use honorless (but effective) methods and then talk about honorfully fighting.
Everybody who fight without uniform/clearly recognizable insignia vs regulars should not expect any mercy.

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## RescueRanger

Huffal said:


> And some say Germany suffers. Those that say it are usually those that havent played in the other nations tech tree.
> 
> P.s how many hours you have in game?


1700, rookie numbers I know .


----------



## Wood

RescueRanger said:


> When the US and NATO say they don't have people on the ground. Make of that statement what you will, ofcourse they don't have "Serving" people on the ground in Ukraine. And that explains a lot about the effectiveness of the irregular warfare tactics deployed in defense of many cities.
> Patch of the "Forward Observation Group"
> View attachment 820234
> 
> *Alleged "EX" US SF attached to the Forward Observation Group in Kyiv*
> View attachment 820229
> 
> View attachment 820230
> 
> View attachment 820231


Unless the CIA funds their time there, this cannot be the responsibility of NATO. Some of the military guys can simply be conflict junkies (based on what we see in their YouTube interviews)


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499163456460709891


----------



## Gripen9

RescueRanger said:


> *Hahah I Found another Russian military frequency hijacked this time they play the Cranberries song "Zombie" *
> Frequency: 4625 Khz 2.40 filter USB
> 
> *Audio file*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SndUp | Post info
> 
> 
> Record, upload, share! SndUp is a social network, for audio! We enable you to upload audio clips and share them with the world. Sharing your talent is simple!
> 
> 
> 
> sndup.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The song that they are playing is this one:


I miss Deloris

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## RescueRanger

Wood said:


> Unless the CIA funds their time there, this cannot be the responsibility of NATO. Some of the military guys can simply be conflict junkies (based on what we see in their YouTube interviews)


Research about FOG. It's a very special group you won't much on them. There is a reason behind that, I've come across guys like this back when ATAP existed in Pakistan.



Gripen9 said:


> I miss Deloris


Same, wonderful person, amazing voice and a beautiful soul. Taken too soon.

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## Madni Bappa

RescueRanger said:


> ATAP


What's this?


----------



## RescueRanger

I can honestly say hyper religious quackjobs are a nuisance everywhere:









Opinion | Why some white evangelicals are cheerleading Russia


Evangelicals are a long way from how they historically thought about Russia and communism.




www.msnbc.com





Has anyone seen the "The Family" documentary on Youtube? 








Madni Bappa said:


> What's this?


Anti Terrorist Assistance Program






@Madni Bappa if you are interested I did a comprehensive research on this and others, you can read more here:





__





Pakistan orders arrest of Blackwater agents


In addition, how about asking 'our brother' UAE to extradite Eric Prince? Erik Prince doesn't own blackwater anymore....



defence.pk

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## Gripen9

Falcon29 said:


> What's that mean


For real?

Military Jargon/slang for a bad situation

SNAFU - Situation Normal - All Fucked Up
FUBAR - Fucked up Beyond any recognition
BOHICA - Bend Over Here it comes.... AGAIN 

My favorite -- REMF Rear Echelon Mother Fucker

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## Bengal71

Joe Shearer said:


> View attachment 819818



Why would they kill him? Just an innocent student.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499173373288591361


----------



## Wergeland 2.0

ive read through some older post and came across racist comments directed againt white people. This is NOT ok. If you insist that racism is bad then you deffo shouldn act like a racist. Thats what a hypocrite does.

It okey to criticise those who deserve critique, but do NOT use that an excuse to paint people with a broad brush, regardless of their skincolor.

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## ZeEa5KPul

LeGenD said:


> China’s manufacturers feel the pain of Ukraine crisis as customers have ‘no desire to pay’​
> Manufacturers in China are starting to feel the pain of the unfolding crisis in Ukraine as financial sanctions placed on Russia have started to filter through to export customers.
> 
> Commerce Minister Wang Wentao said on Tuesday that China was hoping to “promote our normal trade” with both Russia and Ukraine, with Beijing still attempting to walk the diplomatic tightrope between Moscow and Kyiv.
> 
> “My Ukrainian and Russian business has been directly impacted,” said Bob Yao, co-founder of a digital printing production company in Guangdong province.
> 
> “We lost contact with my Ukraine client. And another Russian customer sounded no desire to pay and let us deliver goods all at once because the rouble has been devalued.”
> 
> China is the largest trading partner of both Russia and Ukraine, but Yao said the impact of Russia’s invasion has even spread to customers in other regions.
> 
> “A customer in Central Asia informed us on Tuesday that he has decided to postpone payment and shipping plans for six containers, because of concerns over world affairs,” he added.
> 
> Manufacturers in the world’s factory, especially small and medium-sized enterprises in the industrial sector, have expressed pessimism about the future of the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) market.
> 
> The CIS was formed following the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, with Azerbaijan, Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Moldova, Russia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Ukraine full member states.
> 
> *FULL READ* in following link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘No desire to pay’: China’s manufacturers feel the pain of Ukraine crisis
> 
> 
> China is the largest trading partner of both Russia and Ukraine, but sanctions from the US and its European allies have started to be felt by customers in both countries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.scmp.com


Of course, the #1 hanjian publication has to spread FUD and disinformation. Why the Party hasn't thrown everyone associated with that rag in prison is beyond me. It points to "liberals" in the Party still wielding excessive influence - although, in truth, any liberal influence above zero in China is excessive.

Anyway, these issues will be sorted in short order once the ruble stabilizes and payment systems like CIPS are brought to bear.



RescueRanger said:


> When the US and NATO say they don't have people on the ground. Make of that statement what you will, ofcourse they don't have "Serving" people on the ground in Ukraine. And that explains a lot about the effectiveness of the irregular warfare tactics deployed in defense of many cities.
> Patch of the "Forward Observation Group"
> View attachment 820234
> 
> *Alleged "EX" US SF attached to the Forward Observation Group in Kyiv*
> View attachment 820229
> 
> View attachment 820230
> 
> View attachment 820231


No surprise there. Nazis stick together.

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## terry5

Hypocrite Macron 
All coming out the woodwork now

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## maverick1977

terry5 said:


> View attachment 820240
> 
> 
> Hypocrite Macron
> All coming out the woodwork now




which countries are paying colonial tax and how much is it per GDP ?


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499175931843428352

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## RescueRanger

And people tell me I over react when I say that these people can't help but expose their inner racist in times of crisis. How the F is this journalism, is being an Asian some sort of dirty word? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499083826886328320

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## maverick1977

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499155800790822913



Seems like executed ?


----------



## RescueRanger

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499175931843428352


Oh my god.



Wergeland 2.0 said:


> ive read through some older post and came across racist comments directed againt white people. This is NOT ok. If you insist that racism is bad then you deffo shouldn act like a racist. Thats what a hypocrite does.
> 
> It okey to criticise those who deserve critique, but do NOT use that an excuse to paint people with a broad brush, regardless of their skincolor.



Who is this in reference to? Racism is not tolerated on this forum can you please @ the member also use the report feature.


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499178790551003136

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## Gripen9

RescueRanger said:


> Same, wonderful person, amazing voice and a beautiful soul. Taken too soon.



My favorite.

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## RescueRanger

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499178790551003136


Yup Air raid sirens still blearing in Kyiv now.


----------



## terry5

Warning : graphic language

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498803573240565763

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## RescueRanger

Captured during a live broadcast just now:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499180156325445640
200 Stinger missiles just delivered to Ukraine: 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499169913201737729

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## terry5

maverick1977 said:


> which countries are paying colonial tax and how much is it per GDP ?







__





14 African Countries Forced By France To Pay Colonial Tax For The Benefits Of Slavery And Colonization – SiliconAfrica






siliconafrica.com





Benin, Burkina Faso, Senegal, Cote d'Ivoire, Mali, Niger, Togo, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Guinea Bissau, Equatorial Guinea, Chad, Congo-Brazaville, and Gabon.

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## beast89

Russia is stepping it up, Ziolensky will be crying in tomorrows briefing. He'll send out pleas to join a west alliance or something which will on deaf ears. All on your own.

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## Joe Shearer

Bengal71 said:


> Why would they kill him? Just an innocent student.


More up to date news - he died being hit by a shell fragment.

Bad enough.

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## Tshering22

beast89 said:


> Russia is stepping it up, Ziolensky will be crying in tomorrows briefing. Send out pleas to join a west alliance which will on deaf ears.


If he were in NATO, then this would have already been a WW3. That is exactly why Russians moved in; they have no interest in fighting Ukrainians at all. They just want to replace him with their own puppet.

The sheer force is just to make an example out of what happens when Russians are pushed too far.

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## RescueRanger

RescueRanger said:


> Captured during a live broadcast just now:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499180156325445640
> 200 Stinger missiles just delivered to Ukraine:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499169913201737729



I just want to say that knowing a thing or two about blast overpressure effects, that must have been a very powerful blast considering the distance between the initial flash and the blast wave overpressure reaching the camera crew. Honestly I am so sad watching this, I know deep down anyone near to that blast will not have survived it.

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## 8888888888888

UN meeting is over, now the gloves are off.

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## RescueRanger

Air Raid sirens blearing over Kyiv again:


----------



## Bengal71

Joe Shearer said:


> More up to date news - he died being hit by a shell fragment.
> 
> Bad enough.



The way Ukraine is showing indifference about international students of colour, countries need to raise the matter seriously with India leading the charge as they probably have the highest number of students. The freaken Ukrainians can't hold foreign students hostages if their respective countries don't support their cause.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499186041173032968

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## Turingsage

Those who are gungho about this invasion should consider.

Russia says Ukraine was part of the Soviet union and has no right to exist after DECADES of recognizing it as a separate country which it has been historically. 

What if India claims Pakistan and says it was part of India and is fully justified in invading it and merging it back into India as it was divided by the British, a foreign colonial power. 

Such reasoning would be dangerous, utterly unjustifiable and a clear example of territorial expansionism.

This is Russian expansionism and has to be denounced by the world community on principle if nothing else.

Pakistanis here seem be supporting this invasion and justifying it, without realising what the consequences would be for many parts of the world.

An endless century of wars across the world as powerful nations justified invasions in the name of correcting a perceived wrongs of history.

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
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## RescueRanger

GENEVA (AP) — UN refugee agency: 1 million have fled Ukraine since Russia’s invasion, the swiftest exodus of refugees this century.

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## RescueRanger

Ladies and gentlemen I give you the the greatest genius that ever lived:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499141353376202759

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## 8888888888888

RescueRanger said:


> GENEVA (AP) — UN refugee agency: 1 million have fled Ukraine since Russia’s invasion, the swiftest exodus of refugees this century.


Only woman and children, they don’t allow the man to cross


----------



## patero

Elias MC said:


> Ukrainian refugees are fleeing en masse from the oppression of Banderivtsi. They are also found in large numbers on the path of our troops. On these shootings, they are assisted by fighters under the leadership of dear BROTHER, commander Hussein Mezhidov. Our guys find them shelter, put them in a safe place, transfer their provisions. No international organization, including the OSCE, cares about these people.
> 
> 
> The OSCE, by the way, does nothing but useless rides in large beautiful columns of foreign cars throughout Ukraine. At the same time, unfortunate people are, to put it mildly, in a bad position. They do not know what to do and where to go from Banderivtsi's tyranny.
> 
> 
> I ask the leadership of Ukraine and all those who should and are obliged to directly deal with such humanitarian issues not to sit in bunkers and other safe places, but to start saving the destitute people. Help them, equip them, allocate food, support at least somehow. Stop, in the end, thinking only about yourself and about your interests! Your attitude towards these unfortunate people only proves once again that we are on the right track. And therefore, let the whole world unanimously take up arms against us, *but we will free them from Nazi domination.*


Um, really? That's such a clumsy attempt at justifying this invasion, oh woops, I mean 'special military operation'.

And I realise that's not your quote, that's from the official Russian MOD social media page.

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499191409718534145
On the 2nd , the draft resolution jointly submitted by more than 90 countries including Ukraine was passed. 141 votes in favor, 5 against, and 35 abstentions. With more than two-thirds of the valid votes cast in favour, the draft resolution was adopted. Russia, Syria, Belarus, North Korea, Eritrea voted against, and China abstained. (CCTV)



8888888888888 said:


> Only woman and children, they don’t allow the man to cross


Even then over 1million people in less than a week, this reminds me of 1986 and Afghanistan.

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## Madni Bappa

Turingsage said:


> Those who are gungho about this invasion should consider.
> 
> Russia says Ukraine was part of the Soviet union and has no right to exist after DECADES of recognizing it as a separate country which it has been historically.
> 
> What if India claims Pakistan and says it was part of India and is fully justified in invading it and merging it back into India as it was divided by the British, a foreign colonial power.
> 
> Such reasoning would be dangerous, utterly unjustifiable and a clear example of territorial expansionism.
> 
> This is Russian expansionism and has to be denounced by the world community on principle if nothing else.
> 
> Pakistanis here seem be supporting this invasion and justifying it, without realising what the consequences would be for many parts of the world.
> 
> An endless century of wars across the world as powerful nations justified invasions in the name of correcting a perceived wrongs of history.


What world are you living in man. Literally every world power is doing what it wants. No one bothers with fake facades of human rights anymore

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## vi-va

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498940971509514241

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## Elias MC

patero said:


> Um, really? That's such a clumsy attempt at justifying this invasion, oh woops, I mean 'special military operation'.
> 
> And I realise that's not your quote, that's from the official Russian MOD social media page.




It's Kadyrov's message

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## RescueRanger

Madni Bappa said:


> What world are you living in man. Literally every world power is doing what it wants. No one bothers with fake facades of human rights anymore


Sad but very true. Human rights and all that care bear stuff just went flying out of the window.


----------



## Englishman

terry5 said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14 African Countries Forced By France To Pay Colonial Tax For The Benefits Of Slavery And Colonization – SiliconAfrica
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> siliconafrica.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Benin, Burkina Faso, Senegal, Cote d'Ivoire, Mali, Niger, Togo, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Guinea Bissau, Equatorial Guinea, Chad, Congo-Brazaville, and Gabon.



Wow

And then they have a go at Muslims for the jizya tax....

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## RescueRanger

The Indians appear to be speeding up the evacuation effort, do they know something others don't? This is the second C17 on its way to Rzeszów-Jasionka Airport, Poland. 





Apparently this is true:








Link to verified Facebook page:




__ https://www.facebook.com/usofcom/posts/3212999028931719





*Also mentioned but later deleted from Ukrainian Newspaper:*


https://kyivindependent.com/uncategorized/ukrainian-special-forces-will-no-longer-capture-russian-artillerymen/

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## sur

Turingsage said:


> Those who are gungho about this invasion should consider.
> 
> *Russia says Ukraine was part of the Soviet union and has no right to exist after* DECADES of recognizing it as a separate country which it has been historically.
> 
> What if India claims Pakistan and says it was part of India and is fully justified in invading it and merging it back into India as it was divided by the British, a foreign colonial power.
> 
> Such reasoning would be dangerous, utterly unjustifiable and a clear example of territorial expansionism.
> 
> This is Russian expansionism and has to be denounced by the world community on principle if nothing else.
> 
> *Pakistanis here seem be supporting this invasion* and justifying it, without realising what the consequences would be for many parts of the world.
> 
> An endless century of wars across the world as powerful nations justified invasions in the name of correcting a perceived wrongs of history.



Except that Russia *NEVER* said or implied that. Utterly clueless claim you made.

Except that Pakistanis are *NOT* supporting this invasion. Just don't like the *hypocrisy *of so-called west that they are free to invade scores of countries but are pious and all all of a sudden. And believe that West is the actual *instigator *here. And that *Russian claim* that Donbas has suffered crimes at the hand of governing party for last 8 years is *valid*.

"*Sau Chohaay Khaa Ke Billi Hajj Ko Challee*" [= After gobbling 100 mice, cat going for the pilgrimage].






(source)

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## patero

Elias MC said:


> It's Kadyrov's message


Have to wonder what Kadyrov was promised for his support in this 'special military operation'? Knowing his barbaric attitude towards women, the pick of young Ukrainian woman as sex slaves for his harem perhaps?

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## sur

RescueRanger said:


> The Indians appear to be speeding up the evacuation effort, do they know something others don't? This is the second C17 on its way to Rzeszów-Jasionka Airport, Poland.
> View attachment 820245
> 
> 
> Apparently this is true:
> View attachment 820248
> View attachment 820249
> 
> 
> Link to verified Facebook page:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/usofcom/posts/3212999028931719
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Also mentioned but later deleted from Ukrainian Newspaper:*
> 
> 
> https://kyivindependent.com/uncategorized/ukrainian-special-forces-will-no-longer-capture-russian-artillerymen/


Has Pakistan closed air space to Indian planes?
Or is it that it is Indian military plane, hence avoiding Pakistani air space!!
Why is this flying bypassing Pakistan, I wonder!
Went over Iran happily.

(copied)

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## Hamartia Antidote

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499191409718534145
> On the 2nd , the draft resolution jointly submitted by more than 90 countries including Ukraine was passed. 141 votes in favor, 5 against, and 35 abstentions. With more than two-thirds of the valid votes cast in favour, the draft resolution was adopted. Russia, Syria, Belarus, North Korea, Eritrea voted against, and China abstained. (CCTV)
> 
> 
> Even then over 1million people in less than a week, this reminds me of 1986 and Afghanistan.











141 countries vote to condemn Russia at UN


5 countries voted against the resolution, while 35 abstained.




www.axios.com





..and people really think Putin was smart doing this







Even much of Africa...a long time sympathizer of Russia has denounced this

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## khansaheeb

Madni Bappa said:


> Damn calm down bro. Just don't get how you buy S400 Erdoğan has goodie goodie chats ice cream and outings with Putin
> 
> Then all of a sudden you're all for Ukraine and TB2s etc.
> 
> So confused.
> 
> 
> Could the world be divided on color now? Cuz I see a lot of non white and Asian countries not falling for US and EU randi rona
> 
> 
> What's sbu?


Seems like the brown, black and yellow have had enough of crazy whites trying to destroy the world.

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## Madni Bappa

Hamartia Antidote said:


> 141 countries vote to condemn Russia at UN
> 
> 
> 5 countries voted against the resolution, while 35 abstained.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.axios.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..and people really think Putin was smart doing this
> 
> View attachment 820251
> 
> 
> Even much of Africa...a long time sympathizer of Russia has denounced this


How many of those yes from Africa are dictatorships or nations that pay colonial tax to some Euro power or how many of them are blackmailed by USAID?

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## RescueRanger

sur said:


> Has Pakistan closed air space to Indian planes?
> Or is it that it is Indian military plane, hence avoiding Pakistani air space!!
> Why is this flying bypassing Pakistan, I wonder!
> 
> (copied)
> View attachment 820252


I think that image makes it look like they were operating in Pak airspace, they are not, why they have chosen not to use Pak airspace could be for any number of reasons, they did the same during Afghan Evac, via Doha to Afghanistan and vice versa. 








sur said:


> Has Pakistan closed air space to Indian planes?
> Or is it that it is Indian military plane, hence avoiding Pakistani air space!!
> Why is this flying bypassing Pakistan, I wonder!
> Went over Iran happily.
> 
> (copied)
> View attachment 820252


Here is one from the Afghan Evac, as you will see they bypass Pakistan go via Iran:

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## Kraetoz

sur said:


> Except that Russia *NEVER* said or implied that. Utterly clueless claim you made.
> 
> Except that Pakistanis are *NOT* supporting this invasion. Just don't like the *hypocrisy *of so-called west that they are free to invade scores of countries but are pious and all all of a sudden. And believe that West is the actual *instigator *here. And that *Russian claim* that Donbas has suffered crimes at the hand of governing party for last 8 years is *valid*.


Not to mention Pakistan is not Ukraine. World saw how Pakistan gave bloody nose to India when they tried to enter our airspace.

That was probably the worst Positive rating i have ever seen on this forum.

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## Maula Jatt

Hamartia Antidote said:


> 141 countries vote to condemn Russia at UN
> 
> 
> 5 countries voted against the resolution, while 35 abstained.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.axios.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..and people really think Putin was smart doing this
> 
> View attachment 820251
> 
> 
> Even much of Africa...a long time sympathizer of Russia has denounced this


Most in the world are against it as it sets a very bad precedent
It's not about west, east or anything like that

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## RescueRanger

Take this tweet with a pinch of salt:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499195429988278278

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## Tamerlane

Interesting historical fact about Ukraine. It used to be the homeland of the Khazars, who are the forefathers of the Jews. There's where the Ashkenazi Jews come from, which is why they look European. They try to deny it, of course, because that would have weakened their claim to Palestine. But they got it anyways.

Originally the Khazars were pagan Turkic people from the Caucasus. Because of wars with Muslim Arabs they moved to the region of Ukraine. Their ruling class converted to Judaism and so did the common people. For a while it was a powerful kingdom. Eventually they were finished off around 968 AD by the Russians and Byzantines. Then they moved to the rest of Europe and today they rule over both Europe and America.






Google search for Khazaria: https://www.google.com/search?q=kha...hUKEwiW0uii7qj2AhVHmnIEHXE5D_YQ_AUoAHoECAEQAA

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## Maula Jatt

Tamerlane said:


> Interesting historical fact about Ukraine. It used to be the homeland of the Khazars, who are the forefathers of the Jews. There's where the Ashkenazi Jews come from, which is why they look European. They try to deny it, of course, because that would have weakened their claim to Palestine. But they got it anyways.
> 
> Originally the Khazars were pagan Turkic people from the Caucasus. Because of wars with Muslim Arabs they moved to the region of Ukraine. Their ruling class converted to Judaism and so did the common people. For a while it was a powerful kingdom. Eventually they were finished off around 968 AD by the Russians and Byzantines. Then they moved to the rest of Europe and *today they rule over both Europe and America.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google search for Khazaria: https://www.google.com/search?q=kha...hUKEwiW0uii7qj2AhVHmnIEHXE5D_YQ_AUoAHoECAEQAA

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## RescueRanger

Freedom of Speech, apparently RT's official twitter account is banned in all of Europe.

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## CrazyZ

RescueRanger said:


> Captured during a live broadcast just now:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499180156325445640
> 200 Stinger missiles just delivered to Ukraine:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499169913201737729


thermobaric munitions?

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## jhungary

Sainthood 101 said:


> Most in the world are against it as it sets a very bad precedent
> It's not about west, east or anything like that


More than that, they can literally "replace" Russian UN membership.

While they cannot "kick" Russia out of Security Council, as Russia can veto that resolution, they can replace Russia UN membership like in 1971 a General Assembly to replace the membership of "China" from "republic of" (which mean Taiwan) to "People Republic of", which mean PRC.

If they replace Russian membership, then Russia will lost the right to sit at Security Council and vote. Which left only China to veto the Security Issue.

There are actually talk about doing that at the UN, whether or not China will vote along with Russia in absentia is another issue though.

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## Madni Bappa

Tamerlane said:


> Interesting historical fact about Ukraine. It used to be the homeland of the Khazars, who are the forefathers of the Jews. There's where the Ashkenazi Jews come from, which is why they look European. They try to deny it, of course, because that would have weakened their claim to Palestine. But they got it anyways.
> 
> Originally the Khazars were pagan Turkic people from the Caucasus. Because of wars with Muslim Arabs they moved to the region of Ukraine. Their ruling class converted to Judaism and so did the common people. For a while it was a powerful kingdom. Eventually they were finished off around 968 AD by the Russians and Byzantines. Then they moved to the rest of Europe and today they rule over both Europe and America.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google search for Khazaria: https://www.google.com/search?q=kha...hUKEwiW0uii7qj2AhVHmnIEHXE5D_YQ_AUoAHoECAEQAA


Firang ki rag e jaan 
Panja e yahood mein hai

This war has Jewish involvement for sure.

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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> Freedom of Speech, apparently RT's official twitter account is banned in all of Europe.
> View attachment 820258


EU is at war with Russia effectively, by actively and openly funding an opposition that are at war with Russia. The "Freedom of Speech" right has long gone, now most of EU labelled RT and Novosti "Hostile Media" or like the US "Agent of a Foreign Country"

I mean if India is at war with Pakistan, you would not expect India to have Pakistan state own media still operating on its soil, right?

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## BHAN85

https://www.rt.com/russia/551084-military-fatalities-in-ukraine/



Russia admit 498 Russian soldiers killed.

I wonder if it was so hard the life in Ukraine before 2014 and so marvelous after Maidan to justify this bloodbath by Ukraine state.

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## Maula Jatt

jhungary said:


> More than that, they can literally "replace" Russian UN membership.
> 
> While they cannot "kick" Russia out of Security Council, as Russia can veto that resolution, they can replace Russia UN membership like in 1971 a General Assembly to replace the membership of "China" from "republic of" (which mean Taiwan) to "People Republic of", which mean PRC.
> 
> If they replace Russian membership, then Russia will lost the right to sit at Security Council and vote. Which left only China to veto the Security Issue.
> 
> There are actually talk about doing that at the UN, whether or not China will vote along with Russia in absentia is another issue though.


In my heart of heart I'd very much prefer that but don't see it happening unfortunately ...
It'll make Russia dependent on China for veto but I doubt China would support any such move as it'll
A- make west more powerful than it already is- France, UK, US and replacing it with another west friendly country (I always wondered why US gave China right to veto as Taiwan from their perspective was a much more friendly country - that's 4 friendly veto power vs USSR all alone (although as a Pakistani I am not complaining  , I love China) )
B-Sino-Russia ties would suffer to the point they may become hostile entities


----------



## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


> I mean if India is at war with Pakistan, you would not expect India to have Pakistan state own media still operating on its soil, right?


Yes, yes I think I know how all that works.



BHAN85 said:


> https://www.rt.com/russia/551084-military-fatalities-in-ukraine/
> 
> 
> 
> Russia admit 498 Russian soldiers killed.


x3 that number.



Sainthood 101 said:


> B-Sino-Russia ties would suffer to the point they may become hostile entities


Agreed.

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## Darius77

maverick1977 said:


> Anyone remembers Fallujah,,wasnt that city indiscriminately destroyed when they resisted occupying forces ?


The American cowards used DU ammunition and children are still suffering in Iraq.


Sainthood 101 said:


> In my heart of heart I'd very much prefer that but don't see it happening unfortunately ...
> It'll make Russia dependent on China for veto but I doubt China would support any such move as it'll
> A- make west more powerful than it already is- France, UK, US and replacing it with another west friendly country
> B-Sino-Russia ties would suffer to the point they may become hostile entities


Sometimes you come across a rational US ex-army officer who is not a warmonger, Colonel Macgregor is causing a lot of discomfort for the neo-con and Zionist chicken hawks who are pushing a fratricidal war in Russian Ukraine. As I posted on day 1, Russia will prevail and all this hyperbole is rather moot. Russian technology is far superior to China as they supply modern weaponry to the PLA including S-300 and SU 27/30 which have been cloned as J-11.









Col. Douglas Macgregor on Putin’s next steps in the Ukraine invasion


The decorated combat veteran says the U.S. should stay out of the conflict in Ukraine, adding it will create a far more severe humanitarian crisis, on 'Sunday Night in America.'




video.foxnews.com

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## khansaheeb

Missile appears to hit building in Ukraine as volunteer records video asking for help


A missile appears to strike a building in Ukraine as a volunteer records a video on his mobile phone asking for donations.Speaking in the video, the man explains that he has brought supplies from a supermarket and has delivered them to those in need, before he is cut off by the sound of an...




www.independent.co.uk





Missile appears to strike Ukraine building as volunteer records video asking for help​A missile appears to strike a building in Ukraine as a volunteer records a video on his mobile phone asking for donations.
Speaking in the video, the man explains that he has brought supplies from a supermarket and has delivered them to those in need, before he is cut off by the sound of an airstrike.
While it is unclear exactly where the missile hit, the blast shatters windows and sends debris flying across the room he's filming in.
The man then quickly picks up the camera before ending his recording.
Click here to sign up to our newsletters.

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## RescueRanger

I can't help but laugh at this, Sheikh Rasheed could do a better job at keeping lines of communication open: 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498984778195996679

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## jhungary

Sainthood 101 said:


> In my heart of heart I'd very much prefer that but don't see it happening unfortunately ...
> It'll make Russia dependent on China for veto but I doubt China would support any such move as it'll
> A- make west more powerful than it already is- France, UK, US and replacing it with another west friendly country (I always wondered why US gave China right to veto as Taiwan from their perspective was a much more friendly country - that's 4 friendly veto power vs USSR all alone (although as a Pakistani I am not complaining  , I love China) )
> B-Sino-Russia ties would suffer to the point they may become hostile entities


Well, there will still be "Russia" just not Putin's Russia representing it. I would imagine it will be the opposition party. You cannot replace a country, but you can replace "representation" of a country with a GA vote, not sure if that make sense to you? 

I too was doubtful this will happen tho, yes, with General Assembly support, it can be done, but that does not change the security council vote parity, unless China is willing to abandon the Putin regime, I don't see the point of doing it. And China still need Putin support but as it goes, Putin would be more and more a liability of China. Which mean at some point, probably when China have no use of Putin's Russia anymore, they will be discarded, but that probably 5 year from now or 10 years from now, nobody knows.

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## RescueRanger

Imagine how stupid you have to be to blame Biden for the global oil price crisis:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499216391601147906

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## AZMwi

NotSure said:


>


capitalism and zionism



GiG said:


> "Hang your chemistry and electricity! If you want to make a pile of money, invent something that will enable these Europeans to cut each others' throats with greater facility"
> ~ Hiram Maxim 1882 (Inventor of machine gun)
> View attachment 820154


these r the real devils. they sell arms to both parties in a war.

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## iLION12345_1

kursed said:


> In genuine honesty, I don't think we can compare the Russian/Ukraine war with any wars in the recent past (those were fairly one-sided, with the Western powers enjoying a lop-sided advantage).
> 
> Given that Russian armor is facing somewhat modern weaponry at hands of Ukrainians and suffering due to it, where does that put our usage of armor, given Indian anti-armor capability? This is what I am most interested in knowing more about.
> 
> Do you anticipate Pakistan or India making fewer logistical, and operational mistakes than Russians or Ukrainians? (Keeping in mind events of Feb 26 and 27th both).
> 
> And I am tagging @PanzerKiel since he's written a lot about mistakes from 65', 71' wars. I'd love to know what he thinks of the current situation here and if it tells us anything about what the future might be like at our end.


That’s an interesting bit to cover, Will reply as soon as I have time

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## AZMwi

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499040883865391107


come on mate u can do better


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## Madni Bappa

RescueRanger said:


> Imagine how stupid you have to be to blame Biden for the global oil price crisis:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499216391601147906


The US state machinary under Biden has produced two failures Afghanistan and now Ukraine. Neo cons not happy at all.


America going to shit because of these deep divisions. Feel like 1880s again with North and South split

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## Max

Madni Bappa said:


> Firang ki rag e jaan
> Panja e yahood mein hai
> 
> This war has Jewish involvement for sure.



@waz @The Eagle ask this sectarian swine to change his profile pic.

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## MultaniGuy

Madni Bappa said:


> The US state machinary has produced two failures Afghanistan and now Ukraine. Neo cons not happy at all.
> 
> 
> America going to shit because of these deep divisions. Feel like 1880s again with North and South split


Lets hope so.

Pax Americana is over now.

Thanks to Allah that there is China and Russia.

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## RescueRanger

AZMwi said:


> capitalism and zionism
> 
> 
> these r the real devils. they sell arms to both parties in a war.


Well that's what happens when people stop thinking for themselves:

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## AZMwi

Diviner said:


> Ukraine live TV supposedly filming dead persons in TV killed during the invasion. But during filming one of dead woke up adjusting his /her for conformable posture


ye to pajeet modi bhakts ko bhi peechay chorr gay


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## Maula Jatt

Max said:


> @waz @The Eagle ask this sectarian swine to change his profile pic.


Lol why?


----------



## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> More than that, they can literally "replace" Russian UN membership.
> 
> While they cannot "kick" Russia out of Security Council, as Russia can veto that resolution, they can replace Russia UN membership like in 1971 a General Assembly to replace the membership of "China" from "republic of" (which mean Taiwan) to "People Republic of", which mean PRC.
> 
> If they replace Russian membership, then Russia will lost the right to sit at Security Council and vote. Which left only China to veto the Security Issue.
> 
> There are actually talk about doing that at the UN, whether or not China will vote along with Russia in absentia is another issue though.


What a wonderful hypocritical world. A European country gets attacked and all the colonialists and their poodles go berserk, what about all the dozens of non-European countries that have been attacked with wars causing millions of deaths?

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## Max

Sainthood 101 said:


> Lol why



If you don't find anything objectionable, let me make a meme on Haji Abdul Wahhab deobandi of Tablighe gang and post it here.

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## Darius77

Russians have given an accurate account of their losses which are around 487 confirmed casualties and about 1600 wounded, they have liberated all of the Azov coast and most of eastern Ukraine till the natural boundary of Dnieper river. All of Ukrainian airforce has been neutralized.


Russia reported its military casualties for the first time since the invasion began last week, stating nearly 500 of its troops have been killed and almost 1600 wounded. Ukraine did not disclose its own military losses but said more than 2000 civilians have died, a claim that could not be independently verified. Most of Ukrainian claims have proven to be gross exaggerations and discounted by Reuters Fact Check.

With fighting going on on multiple fronts across the country, Britain’s Defence Ministry said Mariupol, a large city on the Azov Sea, was encircled by Russian forces, while the status of another vital port, Kherson, a Black Sea shipbuilding city of 280,000, was sealed as Russians established full control over it.

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## Madni Bappa

Max said:


> @waz @The Eagle ask this sectarian swine to change his profile pic.


Whoa are you crazy? how's that sectarian man sheesh it's literally a meme. Calm down bruh

That really is unwarranted.

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## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> Well, there will still be "Russia" just not Putin's Russia representing it. I would imagine it will be the opposition party. You cannot replace a country, but you can replace "representation" of a country with a GA vote, not sure if that make sense to you?
> 
> I too was doubtful this will happen tho, yes, with General Assembly support, it can be done, but that does not change the security council vote parity, unless China is willing to abandon the Putin regime, I don't see the point of doing it. And China still need Putin support but as it goes, Putin would be more and more a liability of China. Which mean at some point, probably when China have no use of Putin's Russia anymore, they will be discarded, but that probably 5 year from now or 10 years from now, nobody knows.


I can see the same hoo-ha and weakly UN votes when China attacks Taiwan and we will hear same things being routed at China from Russia: " respect territorial integrity, respect peace, love thy neighbour etc"


----------



## Maula Jatt

Max said:


> If you don't find anything objectionable, let me make a meme on Haji Abdul Wahhab deobandi of Tablighe gang and post it here.


You should! Not on this thread but make it your DP...


----------



## Madni Bappa

Max said:


> If you don't find anything objectionable, let me make a meme on Haji Abdul Wahhab deobandi of Tablighe gang and post it here.


Go ahead. I don't worship molanas bro. Again this is very unwarranted


----------



## Darius77

khansaheeb said:


> What a wonderful hypocritical world. A European country gets attacked and all the colonialists and their poodles go berserk, what about all the dozens of non-European countries that have been attacked with wars causing millions of deaths?


The coconuts just try to emulate their racist white masters, totally ignoring the FACT that US warmongers have attacked and destroyed half a dozen Muslim and Arab countries since 2001 and killed, maimed and uprooted over 20 million people. In Iraq alone they have killed a million people and half a million children with the most inhumane sanctions and used banned DU and phosphorus ammunition that are still killing the people and children with long term cancers and deformities.

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## satyamev

jhungary said:


> EU is at war with Russia effectively, by actively and openly funding an opposition that are at war with Russia. The "Freedom of Speech" right has long gone, now most of EU labelled RT and Novosti "Hostile Media" or like the US "Agent of a Foreign Country"
> 
> I mean if India is at war with Pakistan, you would not expect India to have Pakistan state own media still operating on its soil, right?


saw bbc telecast live from Moscow yesterday. 
BBC is the biggest propaganda arm of the British. 
So Russia is more democratic than uk. Proof of the pudding.

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## Clutch

RescueRanger said:


> Captured during a live broadcast just now:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499180156325445640
> 200 Stinger missiles just delivered to Ukraine:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499169913201737729



Isn't he the Nazi reporter who said, "these are beautiful blond white skinned children and women dying, so this is wrong.... Not those uncivilized non-human brown skinned slave children"..... ???...

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## MultaniGuy

Clutch said:


> Isn't he the Nazi reporter who said, "these are beautiful blond white skinned children and women dying, so this is wrong.... Not those uncivilized non-human brown skinned slave children"..... ???...


Seriously, who is that fvcking white trash who said that?


----------



## beast89

RescueRanger said:


> The Indians appear to be speeding up the evacuation effort, do they know something others don't? This is the second C17 on its way to Rzeszów-Jasionka Airport, Poland.
> View attachment 820245
> 
> 
> Apparently this is true:
> View attachment 820248
> View attachment 820249
> 
> 
> Link to verified Facebook page:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/usofcom/posts/3212999028931719
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Also mentioned but later deleted from Ukrainian Newspaper:*
> 
> 
> https://kyivindependent.com/uncategorized/ukrainian-special-forces-will-no-longer-capture-russian-artillerymen/


Noble heroes clearly, Russia should go extra hard.

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## Darius77

Clutch said:


> Isn't he the Nazi reporter who said, "these are beautiful blond white skinned children and women dying, so this is wrong.... Not those uncivilized non-human brown skinned slave children"..... ???...


Yes, now the racist bastard is ranting about cute blond refugees who are being welcomed by the Poles, Hungarians and Slovaks. Not a word about the mistreatment of Muslims, Blacks and other who are freezing to death in the open. These western racist scum make me sick.

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## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> I can see the same hoo-ha and weakly UN votes when China attacks Taiwan and we will hear same things being routed at China from Russia: " respect territorial integrity, respect peace, love thy neighbour etc"


China will not invade Taiwan.

First you need a competent Navy to do that, China is NOT at this level to shut out the entire Taiwan Strait.

Second, US Navy may get involved, Taiwan host the major IC hub in the world, while China control rare earth, the reason why China sell rare earther to Taiwan or anyone is because without Taiwan or SK or US, there will be no chips. If China captured Taiwan, and capture the entire IC infrastructure, there are no reason for China to sell rare earth material to US or anyone. That would be a problem US will not afford to have. And when US Navy is involved, China will have a hard time to land in Taiwan, unlike Ukraine and Russia , there is a sea border between Taiwan and China.

And Thirdly, they will not need China to vote in support, they only need China to abstain, which is like what they did now. In both UNSC and GA.

And finally, if US and EU impose the same sanction on Russia to China, China will go bust. 70% of world trade happened related to the West. And China still largely use SWIFT. Unless China think Africa or Fail South American state are good trading partner, they can't find an alternative to EU + US, Chinese market is big, but not as big as US, Canada, EU, UK, Australia, NZ, Japan and SK combine. Actually far from it.

But all that said, Russia is still useful to China, that's why as I said, this is not going to happen as China will not let this go for now, maybe i 10 years or something when China technology is better than Russia, they may, I don't know, but not now. Which make a move to replace Russia pointless.

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## RescueRanger

khansaheeb said:


> What a wonderful hypocritical world. A European country gets attacked and all the colonialists and their poodles go berserk, what about all the dozens of non-European countries that have been attacked with wars causing millions of deaths?


Afraad hathoon ma ha aqwam ki taqdeer 
Har fard ha millat k muqaddar ka sitara

Mehrom raha dolat e darya sy wo gawwas 
Karta nahi jo sohbat e sahi sy kinara

Deen hath sy de kar agar azad ho milat
Ha esi tajarat ma musalman ka khasara

Duniya ko ha phir maarka e rooh o badan paish
Tehzeeb na phr apnay darindon ko ubhara

Allah ko mardi e moman pa bhrosa 
Ibles ko yourap machinon ka shara



Wouldn't you agree.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Madni Bappa said:


> How many of those yes from Africa are dictatorships or nations that pay colonial tax to some Euro power or how many of them are blackmailed by USAID?



Instead of yapping a question why didn't you just go look up the "colonial tax" country map yourself and post it.

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## RescueRanger

beast89 said:


> Noble heroes clearly, Russia should go extra hard.


Well they have just admitted to war crimes and it has now been documented the world over.



satyamev said:


> saw bbc telecast live from Moscow yesterday.
> BBC is the biggest propaganda arm of the British.
> So Russia is more democratic than uk. Proof of the pudding.


Its selective "freedom of speech" those of us living in Asia can identify the odious machinations of authoritarianism ten miles away, that is why were are quick on the uptake.

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## Darius77

*Russian Defence Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said Kherson was under Russian soldiers' "complete control".*

He said that the city's civilian infrastructure, essential facilities and transport were operating as usual and there were no shortages of food or essential goods.

Mr Konashenkov said talks between the Russian commanders, city administrations and regional authorities on how to maintain order in the city were underway on Wednesday (local time).

Russia's Defence Ministry said 498 Russian soldiers had died and another 1,597 had been wounded since the start of the invasion, the first time Moscow has given detailed figures on its casualties.

It said more than 2,870 Ukrainian soldiers and "nationalists" had been killed, Interfax news agency reported.

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## Madni Bappa

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Instead of yapping a question why didn't you just go look up the "colonial tax" country map yourself and post it.


Well that's one aspect covered what about rest of the means you use to blackmail nations?

You were literally blackmailing Africans for humanitarian aid. If they pass pro LGBT laws. Imagine. You consider homosexuality and smearing your own sh!t all over yourself civilization?


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

AZMwi said:


> ye to pajeet modi bhakts ko bhi peechay chorr gay



Stop posting fakeNews








Video of moving ‘corpse' in Ukraine is actually from climate change protest in Vienna


Many on social media assumed the video of a reporter in front of several bodies on a road was from Ukraine. One tweet said the Ukrainian 'PR disaster' was falling apart.




theprint.in




Video of moving ‘corpse’ in Ukraine is actually from climate change protest in Vienna

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## beast89

MultaniGuy said:


> Seriously, who is that fvcking white trash who said that?


some ukrainian state prosecutor on UK national TV and he wasn't challenged at all

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## Madni Bappa

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Instead of yapping a question why didn't you just go look up the "colonial tax" country map yourself and post it.


Cameroon president just died. I wonder why. I think they abstained. Or didn't show up I believe.



Hamartia Antidote said:


> Stop posting fakeNews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Video of moving ‘corpse' in Ukraine is actually from climate change protest in Vienna
> 
> 
> Many on social media assumed the video of a reporter in front of several bodies on a road was from Ukraine. One tweet said the Ukrainian 'PR disaster' was falling apart.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theprint.in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Video of moving ‘corpse’ in Ukraine is actually from climate change protest in Vienna


Yes the only truth comes from the White civilized world.


----------



## Khanate

*Which one of you did this... *

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## jhungary

satyamev said:


> saw bbc telecast live from Moscow yesterday.
> BBC is the biggest propaganda arm of the British.
> So Russia is more democratic than uk. Proof of the pudding.


Dude, what Russian do is what Russian do. How does it related to what EU do? Also *UK is NOT PART OF EU *have not been since 2021 (The whole Brexit thing, ringing any belln?) ........And UK Ofcom is still deciding whether or not to ban RT.

Have it ever occur to you they need the license fee? Or anything from BBC to have them keep operating? Russia already banned DW by the way, which mean they are no qualm on banning EU Media.

SMH..........

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## RescueRanger

*When the "Aww" mask fell off momentarily *




*
Then the amended "PR" friendly version*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499155936207908866

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## Madni Bappa

Khanate said:


> *Which one of you did this... *
> 
> View attachment 820263


Beautiful. Now they put umbrella next to it. To cover it up.


----------



## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499218005842137092

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499218228731645952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499187646538690568

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## MultaniGuy

CBS News’ Charlie D’Agata apologizes for saying Ukraine more ‘civilized’ than Iraq, Afghanistan​ 

By 
Ben Kesslen 


February 26, 2022 9:21pm 
Updated 








US soldiers patrol the downtown area of Tikrit, north of Baghdad. MAURICIO LIMA/AFP via Getty Images  




More On:  cbs news ​ 


 
 
 CBS News hires firm of network co-chief’s brother to advise on layoffs ​ 
 
 
 Top editor exits after clash with CBS News boss over rescue of Afghan journalists ​ 
 
 
 Gayle King signs new deal with CBS, spurning interest from CNN ​ 
 
 
 ‘CBS Evening News’ Jan. 6 broadcast sets tongues wagging about Norah O’Donnell’s future ​ 
 
 


A senior foreign correspondent at CBS News apologized Saturday after he said on air that the war in Ukraine can’t be compared to those in Iraq and Afghanistan — because the Eastern European nation is more “civilized.”
Correspondent Charlie D’Agata was reporting from Kyiv, Ukraine when he said Friday that Ukraine “isn’t a place, with all due respect, like Iraq or Afghanistan, that has seen conflict raging for decades.
“This is a relatively civilized, relatively European — I have to choose those words carefully, too — city, where you wouldn’t expect that or hope that it’s going to happen,” he continued.
D’Agata issued an apology on the broadcaster’s streaming network Saturday, after his comments went viral — racking up more than 1.5 million views on Twitter — and were swiftly condemned as racist and historically inaccurate.
“I spoke in a way I regret, and for that I’m sorry,” he said, adding that he was trying to convey that Ukraine hasn’t seen “this scale of war” in recent years, unlike other countries.



Olena Kurilo, a 52-year-old school teacher in Ukraine, is bandaged up after glass shards were blown into her face following the bombing of a building. ARIS MESSINIS/AFP via Getty Images 

Sisters wait at a checkpoint after fleeing Ukraine into Beregsurany, Hungary. Anna Szilagyi/AP
“You should never compare conflicts anyway, each one is unique…I used a poor choice of words and I apologize for any offense I may have caused.”


Protesters hold anti-war banners and flags of Ukraine in Sopot, Poland.Michal Fludra/NurPhoto via Getty Images
People on the internet were quick to point out that Iraq has long been called the “cradle of civilization” because ancient Mesopotamia — now Iraq — is where “civilization” as the West largely understands it emerged. And Ukraine, of course, is no stranger to war and conflict, with the Russian annexation of Crimea happening less than a decade ago.
Cornell professor Dr. Mostafa Minawi asked on Twitter why D’Agata thought it was permissible “to compare the value of peoples’ lives and who qualifies as ‘civilized.'” 
“CBS News dropped the dog whistle for straight racism today,” Chicago Sun-Times reporter Nader Issa tweeted. “If that’s the version where he chooses his words carefully, was the alternative just going to be “these are civilized white people and not uncivilized brown people”
Laleh Khalili, a professor at Queen Mary University of London, echoed Issa’s sentiment. 
*Get the latest* *updates* *in the Russia-Ukraine conflict with The Post’s live coverage.*
“Oh yes, the deserving civilised victims and those uncivilised non-European savages undeserving of sympathy where war just “rages for decades” (never mind it is US and its allies starting the wars),” she tweeted in response to his comments. “Thanks @cbsnews for explicit laying it out.”


A South Korean soldier checks an Iraqi girl with face burns in the southern Iraqu region of Nasiriyah. ABDELHAK SENNA/AFP via Getty Images 

The British Armed Forces work with the US Military to evacuate eligible civilians and their families from Kabul, Afghanistan. MoD Crown Copyright via Getty Images 

Afghan militia gather with their weapons to support Afghanistan’s security forces against the Taliban. HOSHANG HASHIMI/AFP via Getty Images
Viewers also were shocked that D’Agata bothered to say “with all due respect” on Friday given his words. 
“He hears himself sounding racist, he acknowledges that he should be careful to hide the racism, but ultimately is unable or unwilling to actually stop the racism,” writer Head Amry tweeted.





D’Agata has been a reporter with the network for two decades.


Yes that fvcking redneck white trash known as Charlie D'Gata.

Someone should that racist pig that Iraq and Afghanistan were once centres of great knowledge and learning and it is the outsiders or people from the West who destroyed them

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## Khanate

*PHUL SÜPPORT SAAR TO PUTIN... 🤡*
















From 'Akhand Bharat' With Love: Hindu Sena Backs 'Akhand Russia' Attack On Ukraine


He also accused Ukraine of blackmailing India during the ongoing crisis by holding Indian students hostage.




www.indiatimes.com

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## RescueRanger

MultaniGuy said:


> CBS News’ Charlie D’Agata apologizes for saying Ukraine more ‘civilized’ than Iraq, Afghanistan​
> 
> By
> Ben Kesslen
> 
> 
> February 26, 2022 9:21pm
> Updated
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US soldiers patrol the downtown area of Tikrit, north of Baghdad. MAURICIO LIMA/AFP via Getty Images
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More On:  cbs news ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CBS News hires firm of network co-chief’s brother to advise on layoffs ​
> 
> 
> Top editor exits after clash with CBS News boss over rescue of Afghan journalists ​
> 
> 
> Gayle King signs new deal with CBS, spurning interest from CNN ​
> 
> 
> ‘CBS Evening News’ Jan. 6 broadcast sets tongues wagging about Norah O’Donnell’s future ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A senior foreign correspondent at CBS News apologized Saturday after he said on air that the war in Ukraine can’t be compared to those in Iraq and Afghanistan — because the Eastern European nation is more “civilized.”
> Correspondent Charlie D’Agata was reporting from Kyiv, Ukraine when he said Friday that Ukraine “isn’t a place, with all due respect, like Iraq or Afghanistan, that has seen conflict raging for decades.
> “This is a relatively civilized, relatively European — I have to choose those words carefully, too — city, where you wouldn’t expect that or hope that it’s going to happen,” he continued.
> D’Agata issued an apology on the broadcaster’s streaming network Saturday, after his comments went viral — racking up more than 1.5 million views on Twitter — and were swiftly condemned as racist and historically inaccurate.
> “I spoke in a way I regret, and for that I’m sorry,” he said, adding that he was trying to convey that Ukraine hasn’t seen “this scale of war” in recent years, unlike other countries.
> 
> 
> 
> Olena Kurilo, a 52-year-old school teacher in Ukraine, is bandaged up after glass shards were blown into her face following the bombing of a building. ARIS MESSINIS/AFP via Getty Images
> 
> Sisters wait at a checkpoint after fleeing Ukraine into Beregsurany, Hungary. Anna Szilagyi/AP
> “You should never compare conflicts anyway, each one is unique…I used a poor choice of words and I apologize for any offense I may have caused.”
> 
> 
> Protesters hold anti-war banners and flags of Ukraine in Sopot, Poland.Michal Fludra/NurPhoto via Getty Images
> People on the internet were quick to point out that Iraq has long been called the “cradle of civilization” because ancient Mesopotamia — now Iraq — is where “civilization” as the West largely understands it emerged. And Ukraine, of course, is no stranger to war and conflict, with the Russian annexation of Crimea happening less than a decade ago.
> Cornell professor Dr. Mostafa Minawi asked on Twitter why D’Agata thought it was permissible “to compare the value of peoples’ lives and who qualifies as ‘civilized.'”
> “CBS News dropped the dog whistle for straight racism today,” Chicago Sun-Times reporter Nader Issa tweeted. “If that’s the version where he chooses his words carefully, was the alternative just going to be “these are civilized white people and not uncivilized brown people”
> Laleh Khalili, a professor at Queen Mary University of London, echoed Issa’s sentiment.
> *Get the latest* *updates* *in the Russia-Ukraine conflict with The Post’s live coverage.*
> “Oh yes, the deserving civilised victims and those uncivilised non-European savages undeserving of sympathy where war just “rages for decades” (never mind it is US and its allies starting the wars),” she tweeted in response to his comments. “Thanks @cbsnews for explicit laying it out.”
> 
> 
> A South Korean soldier checks an Iraqi girl with face burns in the southern Iraqu region of Nasiriyah. ABDELHAK SENNA/AFP via Getty Images
> 
> The British Armed Forces work with the US Military to evacuate eligible civilians and their families from Kabul, Afghanistan. MoD Crown Copyright via Getty Images
> 
> Afghan militia gather with their weapons to support Afghanistan’s security forces against the Taliban. HOSHANG HASHIMI/AFP via Getty Images
> Viewers also were shocked that D’Agata bothered to say “with all due respect” on Friday given his words.
> “He hears himself sounding racist, he acknowledges that he should be careful to hide the racism, but ultimately is unable or unwilling to actually stop the racism,” writer Head Amry tweeted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> D’Agata has been a reporter with the network for two decades.
> 
> 
> Yes that fvcking redneck white trash known as Charlie D'Gata.
> 
> Someone should that racist pig that Iraq and Afghanistan were once centres of great knowledge and learning and it is the outsiders or people from the West who destroyed them



Why am I not surprised, I can't find the clip from 2021 Airlift where this wingnut was talking garbage about Afghans, at one point they had to cut to the weather or sports, I can't fully recall. As I keep saying, sometimes the mask falls off .

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## beast89

@MultaniGuy my afghan side looks more european than the ukrainian dude lmao

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## MultaniGuy

RescueRanger said:


> Why am I not surprised, I can't find the clip from 2021 Airlift where this wingnut was talking garbage about Afghans, at one point they had to cut to the weather or sports, I can't fully recall. As I keep saying, sometimes the mask falls off .


lol that fvcking white trash known as Charlie D'gata. Lol we Pakistanis must stay out of the Ukrainian crisis. It is NEVER our problem at all.

Let the Europeans fight themselves over it. lol.

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## RescueRanger

Khanate said:


> *PHUL SÜPPORT SAAR TO PUTIN... 🤡*
> View attachment 820266


These guys need to make up their mind which side they are on, you can't have it both ways. Did you see the look on Biden's face when that Indian Bahi asked him the question about taking India into confidence? 






Anyway, I often praise the Indians for being industrious and a wiley hardworking nation, but they need to start picking a camp and staying in it. You can't be a goalie and a striker at the same time.

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## MultaniGuy

beast89 said:


> @MultaniGuy my afghan side looks more european than the ukrainian dude lmao


LOL...SERIOUSLY?

LOL GO FVCK UKRAINE. I advise all Pakistani nationalists that we stay out of this shithole country called Ukraine.

Let Russia deal with them. *Now I'm convinced I couldn't give a damn for European conflicts.*


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

Madni Bappa said:


> Well that's one aspect covered what about rest of the means you use to blackmail nations?
> 
> You were literally blackmailing Africans for humanitarian aid. If they pass pro LGBT laws. Imagine. You consider homosexuality and smearing your own sh!t all over yourself civilization?



Actually the conspiracy theorists can't even agree which countries are being exploited.

This now appears to be the real map of the "14". Ignore the first one made by a second rate conspiracy theorist who couldn't the narrative correct.


----------



## Madni Bappa

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Actually the conspiracy theorists can't even agree which countries are being exploited.
> 
> This now appears to be the real map. Ignore the first.


Almost every second thing coming out of your mouth or your media is utter lies

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499105158445387781

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## Khanate

Oui Oui Baguette.*.. 🇫🇷*​

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498619523045511168

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## beast89

MultaniGuy said:


> LOL...SERIOUSLY?
> 
> LOL GO FVCK UKRAINE. I advise all Pakistani nationalists that we stay out of this shithole country called Ukraine.
> 
> Let Russia deal with them. *Now I'm convinced I couldn't give a damn for European conflicts.*


Ukrainian nationalists greasing bullets with pig fat for russian chechen fighters. Makes you wonder what they have been doing to ethnic Russians.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498491202810757121

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## Khanate

*Press freedom under threat... 😤*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499156082865942543

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## sur

RescueRanger said:


> I can't help but laugh at this, Sheikh Rasheed could do a better job at keeping lines of communication open:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498984778195996679



I deleted previous reply to this because the tweet I posted himself was in doubt about coordinates.

But one thing they identified was that there were more than 1 tracks visible in the footage from alleged bayraktar attack.

So below is one part of Crimea's rail path just after entering Ukraine that has multiple tracks and some oil tankers visible.


*Coordinates:
46.17881155650204, 33.603816193579824*























Video footage shows *multiple tracks, at least 3*
One has train on it, other 2 visible just after the blast:







__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t3o7ij

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## MultaniGuy

beast89 said:


> Ukrainian nationalists greasing bullets with pig fat for russian chechen fighters


lol. what a bunch of white trash.

Good we Pakistanis stayed neutral in this shithole country called Ukraine.


----------



## RescueRanger

Khanate said:


> Oui Oui Baguette.*.. 🇫🇷*​
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498619523045511168


You know what they say about besti...








sur said:


> I deleted previous reply to this because the tweet I posted himself was in doubt about coordinates.
> 
> But one thing they identified was that there were more than 1 tracks visible in the footage from alleged bayraktar attack.
> 
> So below is one part of Crimea's rail path just after entering Ukraine that has multiple tracks and some oil tankers visible.
> 
> 
> *Coordinates:
> 46.17881155650204, 33.603816193579824*
> 
> View attachment 820270
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 820269
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 820272
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Video footage shows *multiple tracks, at least 3*
> One has train on it, other 2 visible just after the blast:
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t3o7ij


Thank you very much for sharing that, just a word of caution on that reddit, a lot of posts on it have been taken down recently. But this could be very plausible considering that many Turkish accounts have also shared tweets praising TB2 for wrecking a supply train.



Khanate said:


> *Press freedom under threat... 😤*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499156082865942543


It's really infuriating to be honest.

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## Clutch



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## khansaheeb

‘Gunmen asked why don't you join our fight’: Indian students recall nightmare of exiting Ukraine


Thousands of Indians faced a harrowing ordeal as they sought to escape Ukraine in the aftermath of Russia's attack on the European nation, which began last week.




theprint.in




‘Gunmen asked why don’t you join our fight’: Indian students recall nightmare of exiting Ukraine​
Thousands of Indians faced a harrowing ordeal as they sought to escape Ukraine in the aftermath of Russia's attack on the European nation, which began last week.​ABANTIKA GHOSH
2 March, 2022 06:59 pm IST

https://www.facebook.com/sharer.php...s-recall-nightmare-of-exiting-ukraine/855118/
https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?te...-of-exiting-ukraine/855118/&via=ThePrintIndia
https://www.linkedin.com/shareArtic...+students+recall+nightmare+of+exiting+Ukraine

https://api.whatsapp.com/send?text=...s-recall-nightmare-of-exiting-ukraine/855118/




Tiyasha Biswas (extreme left), a student in Lviv, with other Indian students rescued from Ukraine, at Banga Bhawan in New Delhi | Photo by special arrangement
Text Size: A- A+

*New Delhi:* The two years that Kolkata resident Hamza Kabir spent studying medicine at the Uzhhorod National University in Ukraine were quite happy. “People there are very nice,” he said. That’s why nothing could have ever prepared him for the “hostility” he faced as he was leaving the country via the Hungary border in a bus that his university had arranged.
“There was checking at the border, we kept waiting in the bus. They told us ‘you can buy food, use the washroom…’ But we were having problems (in exchanging currency). Then, as we started leaving the country, armed gunmen walked up to us and said: ‘Why are you leaving the country? Why is India doing this? Why don’t you join us and fight?’” recounted Kabir.

This was immediately after India abstained during a United Nations Security Council resolution last week on the Russia-Ukraine war, which has gone on for nearly a week now and is threatening to unravel global security.
“I did not want to argue with them. I said ‘Tobo Bachino’ in my broken Ukrainian, which basically means ‘farewell’…” Kabir said. “Some of my friends, people I used to play basketball with, have joined them (Ukrainian forces), I have heard.”
Kabir is part of one of several batches of students evacuated from Ukraine by the Government of India. Students from West Bengal are currently lodged in Delhi’s Banga Bhawan on their way back home, and are waiting for the state government to hand them flight tickets to get back home.


There are uncertainties now about what the future holds but Kabir is hoping that, maybe after his college break ends on 13 March, he will be able to rejoin his course. “I have to go back, education is important,” he said.
His batchmate Tiyasha Biswas, a student of Ivan Franko National University of Lviv, is hopeful that even if they cannot go back to Ukraine, the students might be allowed to finish their medical education in one of Ukraine’s neighbouring countries, such as Poland, Hungary and Romania.

Biswas got a bruised shoulder in a scuffle at the border where thousands of people were jostling to get out of the country. 
“We arranged for a taxi and went to the Poland border along with our friends. We had to walk 16 km at -5°C temperature because, after a point, the taxi said it could not go any further,” said the Barasat resident. “We walked almost for 11 hours before reaching the border but at the border we had to wait for two hours as Ukraine residents were prioritised for evacuation. There was discrimination. There were no Indian officials there who could push our case.”
Her mother Shibani spoke about the difficulty families like hers faced in reaching government officials and telling them about the hardships the children were facing.

_*Also read:* West’s bid to shut down Russian economy normally an ‘act of war’, says India’s ex-envoy to Moscow_
*Jostling at the borders*​Nistha, another student in Lviv, spoke about how armed Ukrainian border guards “kept pushing students”, saying “go back”, when they were queuing up at the Medyka border to leave the country and enter Poland, where Indian officials had arranged Polish visas.
“The guards were particularly vicious with the Nigerians there. Sometimes they were chasing them away,” said Nistha.
Kalsang, a student from Darjeeling who is also studying in Lviv, said she booked a private cab along with friends to reach the border but the journey proved arduous.
“The cab told us that, from the drop-off point, the border was a distance of 5 km but that was not the case. We had to travel 40-45 km by foot to reach the border,” she added. “A girl in my group fainted because of hypothermia. We called the ambulance for her and we stayed the night in a jungle at -5°C,” said Kalsang.
“We did not even have proper clothes because we had expected to reach the border much earlier. Meanwhile, the friend who had hypothermia was sent back on foot. She walked 20 km to the border,” she added. “In the morning, they started making groups of girls but the Nigerians broke the order and tried to run ahead. The Ukrainian army opened fire with airguns. The Nigerians tried to get into the bus but the police stopped them.”
Kalsang said “there were huge crowds at all points”. “There was jostling, lathicharge. Even at the Poland border, there were huge queues for the stamping but there was again jostling,” she added. “I got hurt in my foot during that melee.”
(Edited by Amit Upadhyaya)
_*Also read:* Russia-Ukraine information warfare is following century-old playbook, dating back to WW1_



Why is Indian TV news focused on Ukraine 24X7? Even BBC & CNN take a break

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## Nomad40

RescueRanger said:


> Here the Audio file for the other hijacked Military frequency:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SndUp | Post info
> 
> 
> Record, upload, share! SndUp is a social network, for audio! We enable you to upload audio clips and share them with the world. Sharing your talent is simple!
> 
> 
> 
> sndup.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This time there is a recording that says " Glory to Ukraine" before playing the Ukrainian national anthem:
> 
> Frequency: 4615 Khz 2.40 Filter USB
> 
> 
> 
> On this second one they have hijacked it and replaced it with an audio file of pigs squealing:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SndUp | Post info
> 
> 
> Record, upload, share! SndUp is a social network, for audio! We enable you to upload audio clips and share them with the world. Sharing your talent is simple!
> 
> 
> 
> sndup.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Frequency: 5125 Khz 2.40 Filter USB
> 
> Enjoy, the audio files are included.


Yup been at these since Day 2, hopefully Buran 30 is okay.

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## Muhammed45

Yemen never had support from so called international community.







Syria on the other hand had to give up to NATO supported terrorists since it was a threat to Israel. Compare it to western campaign in case of Ukraine





Muslims are used to taste NATO bombs under the pretext of fighting terrorism

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## beast89

MultaniGuy said:


> lol. what a bunch of white trash.
> 
> Good we Pakistanis stayed neutral in this shithole country called Ukraine.


Russia gonna Landlock it, you elect a comedian you get clown results

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## RescueRanger

Nomad40 said:


> Yup been at these since Day 2, hopefully Buran 30 is okay.


I've noted down a couple of frequencies that have been hijacked and a few that are still transmitting. Let me know and i'll dm you. The 4x and 5x purportedly operating in Ukraine are now either scrambled or dead air.



sur said:


> I deleted previous reply to this because the tweet I posted himself was in doubt about coordinates.
> 
> But one thing they identified was that there were more than 1 tracks visible in the footage from alleged bayraktar attack.
> 
> So below is one part of Crimea's rail path just after entering Ukraine that has multiple tracks and some oil tankers visible.
> 
> 
> *Coordinates:
> 46.17881155650204, 33.603816193579824*
> 
> View attachment 820270
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 820269
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 820272
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Video footage shows *multiple tracks, at least 3*
> One has train on it, other 2 visible just after the blast:
> 
> View attachment 820274
> 
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t3o7ij



Bellingcat are doing really good work too. 









Documenting and Debunking Dubious Footage from Ukraine’s Frontlines - bellingcat


A number of questionable videos suggesting provocations in eastern Ukraine have appeared online. Bellingcat is looking to track and analyse them.




www.bellingcat.com

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## MultaniGuy

beast89 said:


> Russia gonna Landlock it, you elect a comedian you get clown results







Calling Charlie D'gata a racist idiot.

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## Falcon29

Gripen9 said:


> For real?
> 
> Military Jargon/slang for a bad situation
> 
> SNAFU - Situation Normal - All Fucked Up
> FUBAR - Fucked up Beyond any recognition
> BOHICA - Bend Over Here it comes.... AGAIN
> 
> My favorite -- REMF Rear Echelon Mother Fucker


I need to watch some more war movies.

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## sammuel

Turingsage said:


> Meanwhile Russians are fed a diet of lies and propaganda.
> The Russian populace believe this as all other sources of actual events is banned and erased.
> 
> 
> Ukraine: Watching the war on Russian TV - a whole different story​*By Simona Kralova & Sandro Vetsko*
> BBC Monitoring


Do not call Ukraine invasion a ‘war’, Russia tells media, schools​_Instead, ‘special military operation’ should be used to describe Moscow’s assault on Ukraine, according to officials.

For instance, a statement by Russia’s internet censor board, Roskomnadzor, warns that referring to the ongoing military campaign as an “invasion”, “attack” or “declaration of war” will lead to the offending website being blocked.









Do not call Ukraine invasion a ‘war’, Russia tells media, schools


Instead, ‘special military operation’ should be used to describe Moscow’s assault on Ukraine, according to officials.




www.aljazeera.com




_


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## Darius77

RescueRanger said:


> *When the "Aww" mask fell off momentarily *
> View attachment 820264
> 
> 
> *Then the amended "PR" friendly version*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499155936207908866


That is a war crime and against the Geneva Convention, but also shows the real Nazi criminal nature of the Ukrainians. This will only bring on a harsher Russian response and stiffen the spine of conscripts even. The Ukrainians are losing badly and even western public turning off against their lies and racism.

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## sammuel

beast89 said:


> Russia gonna Landlock it, you elect a comedian you get clown results



I wonder how long would you have stayed in Kiev if the whole Russian army was on your tail . . .

~


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## RescueRanger

*Polite Notice* please avoid personal attacks, quips and nonsense, lets keep on topic and save our energies for positive things. 

Thank you.

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## khansaheeb

This Russian convoy seems to be getting longer and longer, NATO and Ukrainians must be wringing their hands:-​







64-km-long Russian convoy nearing Kyiv made up of 'armoured vehicles, tanks, towed artillery'


The length of the convoy was so large that it could not be entirely captured by the satellites. In some areas, the convoy was nearly two to three rows deep.




theprint.in




64-km-long Russian convoy nearing Kyiv made up of ‘armoured vehicles, tanks, towed artillery’​
The length of the convoy was so large that it could not be entirely captured by the satellites. In some areas, the convoy was nearly two to three rows deep.​SUCHET VIR SINGH
1 March, 2022 09:40 pm IST

https://www.facebook.com/sharer.php...moured-vehicles-tanks-towed-artillery/853846/
https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?te...nks-towed-artillery/853846/&via=ThePrintIndia
https://www.linkedin.com/shareArtic...f+‘armoured+vehicles,+tanks,+towed+artillery’

https://api.whatsapp.com/send?text=...moured-vehicles-tanks-towed-artillery/853846/



Russian tanks in Ukraine | Representational image | ANI
Text Size: A- A+

*New Delhi:* On the sixth day of Russia’s invasion into Ukraine Tuesday, a 64-km-long Russian convoy was assumed to be heading towards Ukraine’s capital city of Kyiv. US-based satellite imagery company Maxar Technologies captured the images.
The length of the convoy was so large that it could not be entirely captured by the satellites. In some areas, the convoy was nearly two to three rows deep.



Further updates showed that the convoy had reached Antonov Airport, a cargo facility, located in the North-West suburbs of Kyiv. The image also showed houses burning along the route of the convoy.

Reports suggest that the convoy is made up of armoured vehicles, tanks, towed artillery and other vehicles.

Some reports also noted that the convoy’s origins can be traced to Belarus. The former Soviet state, which lies to the northwest of Kyiv, can be argued to be where the convoy took off from. All major routes in the northwest of Kyiv end in Belarus.

Russia placed multiple troops, military vehicles, and helicopters in Belarus prior to the invasion, under the pretext of joint exercises by the two countries. However, as the exercises ended, the troops, vehicles and helicopters stayed behind, according to reports.
Russia then built a pontoon bridge across the Pripyat River, crossing the Chernobyl exclusion zone, into Ukraine from Belarus. The day invasions began, and further images depicted that Russia began moving troops and vehicles across that bridge into Ukraine.
Looking at the scale of troops, armoured vehicles, tanks and towed artillery, as part of the convoy and the route which it is following — Belarus’s acquiescence or clandestine support could look implicit.
However, there is still ambiguity whether the convoy is headed towards the centre of Kyiv or to assist and join Russian troops deployed elsewhere in Ukraine. The convoy, however, was judged to be 25-kilometre-long from Kyiv.
As talks between Russia and Ukraine stalled on the first day, with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky stating that there “can be fair negotiations if one side does not hit the other side with rocket artillery at the time of negotiations”, stakes could rest on the fate of this Russian convoy and where it goes from here.
*Also read: *_‘Stepped out to buy groceries’: Indian medical student, 21, dies in Ukraine from shelling_

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## Aesterix

Here in UK all Russian Media websites , Youtube channels and Cable TV channels have been taken down. RT.com is blocked.
Whatever happened of press freedom and freedom of opinion?

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## khansaheeb

sammuel said:


> I wonder how long would you have stayed in Kiev if the whole Russian army was on your tail . . .
> 
> ~


Longer than the time the Israeli army spent in Lebanon after a beating by the Hizbos?

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## Muhammed45

Aesterix said:


> Here in UK all Russian Media websites , Youtube channels and Cable TV channels have been taken down. RT.com is blocked.
> Whatever happened of press freedom and freedom of opinion?


@Vergennes 
Here a million dollar question.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499242473624936455


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## Maula Jatt

Muhammed45 said:


> @Vergennes
> Here a million dollar question.











Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
 

On the 2nd , the draft resolution jointly submitted by more than 90 countries including Ukraine was passed. 141 votes in favor, 5 against, and 35 abstentions. With more than two-thirds of the valid votes cast in favour, the draft resolution was adopted. Russia, Syria, Belarus, North Korea...



defence.pk

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## khansaheeb

Aesterix said:


> Here in UK all Russian Media websites , Youtube channels and Cable TV channels have been taken down. RT.com is blocked.
> Whatever happened of press freedom and freedom of opinion?


RT.com is down in the US too.


----------



## Darius77

It also shows that over 80% of the world's population supports Russia. Iran and Iraq along with 35 countries also abstained.

Countries that voted against the resolution​
Russia
Belarus
North Korea
Eritrea
Syria


Countries that abstained​
Algeria
Angola
Armenia
Bangladesh
Bolivia
Burundi
Central African Republic
China
Congo
Cuba
El Salvador
Equatorial Guinea
India
Iran
Iraq
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Laos
Madagascar
Mali
Mongolia
Mozambique
Namibia
Nicaragua
Pakistan
Senegal
South Africa
South Sudan
Sri Lanka
Sudan
Tajikistan
Tanzania
Uganda
Vietnam
Zimbabwe

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499243728917209092


----------



## newb3e

khansaheeb said:


> This Russian convoy seems to be getting longer and longer, NATO and Ukrainians must be wringing their hands:-​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 64-km-long Russian convoy nearing Kyiv made up of 'armoured vehicles, tanks, towed artillery'
> 
> 
> The length of the convoy was so large that it could not be entirely captured by the satellites. In some areas, the convoy was nearly two to three rows deep.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theprint.in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 64-km-long Russian convoy nearing Kyiv made up of ‘armoured vehicles, tanks, towed artillery’​
> The length of the convoy was so large that it could not be entirely captured by the satellites. In some areas, the convoy was nearly two to three rows deep.​SUCHET VIR SINGH
> 1 March, 2022 09:40 pm IST
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=https://theprint.in/world/64-km-long-russian-convoy-nearing-kyiv-made-up-of-armoured-vehicles-tanks-towed-artillery/853846/
> https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=64-km-long+Russian+convoy+nearing+Kyiv+made+up+of+‘armoured+vehicles,+tanks,+towed+artillery’&url=https://theprint.in/world/64-km-long-russian-convoy-nearing-kyiv-made-up-of-armoured-vehicles-tanks-towed-artillery/853846/&via=ThePrintIndia
> https://www.linkedin.com/shareArticle?mini=true&url=https://theprint.in/world/64-km-long-russian-convoy-nearing-kyiv-made-up-of-armoured-vehicles-tanks-towed-artillery/853846/&title=64-km-long+Russian+convoy+nearing+Kyiv+made+up+of+‘armoured+vehicles,+tanks,+towed+artillery’
> 
> https://api.whatsapp.com/send?text=64-km-long+Russian+convoy+nearing+Kyiv+made+up+of+‘armoured+vehicles,+tanks,+towed+artillery’ https://theprint.in/world/64-km-long-russian-convoy-nearing-kyiv-made-up-of-armoured-vehicles-tanks-towed-artillery/853846/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian tanks in Ukraine | Representational image | ANI
> Text Size: A- A+
> 
> *New Delhi:* On the sixth day of Russia’s invasion into Ukraine Tuesday, a 64-km-long Russian convoy was assumed to be heading towards Ukraine’s capital city of Kyiv. US-based satellite imagery company Maxar Technologies captured the images.
> The length of the convoy was so large that it could not be entirely captured by the satellites. In some areas, the convoy was nearly two to three rows deep.
> 
> 
> 
> Further updates showed that the convoy had reached Antonov Airport, a cargo facility, located in the North-West suburbs of Kyiv. The image also showed houses burning along the route of the convoy.
> 
> Reports suggest that the convoy is made up of armoured vehicles, tanks, towed artillery and other vehicles.
> 
> Some reports also noted that the convoy’s origins can be traced to Belarus. The former Soviet state, which lies to the northwest of Kyiv, can be argued to be where the convoy took off from. All major routes in the northwest of Kyiv end in Belarus.
> 
> Russia placed multiple troops, military vehicles, and helicopters in Belarus prior to the invasion, under the pretext of joint exercises by the two countries. However, as the exercises ended, the troops, vehicles and helicopters stayed behind, according to reports.
> Russia then built a pontoon bridge across the Pripyat River, crossing the Chernobyl exclusion zone, into Ukraine from Belarus. The day invasions began, and further images depicted that Russia began moving troops and vehicles across that bridge into Ukraine.
> Looking at the scale of troops, armoured vehicles, tanks and towed artillery, as part of the convoy and the route which it is following — Belarus’s acquiescence or clandestine support could look implicit.
> However, there is still ambiguity whether the convoy is headed towards the centre of Kyiv or to assist and join Russian troops deployed elsewhere in Ukraine. The convoy, however, was judged to be 25-kilometre-long from Kyiv.
> As talks between Russia and Ukraine stalled on the first day, with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky stating that there “can be fair negotiations if one side does not hit the other side with rocket artillery at the time of negotiations”, stakes could rest on the fate of this Russian convoy and where it goes from here.
> *Also read: *_‘Stepped out to buy groceries’: Indian medical student, 21, dies in Ukraine from shelling_


classic ussr fear tactics! gg Putin!! squeeze that mf clowns neck!



Aesterix said:


> Here in UK all Russian Media websites , Youtube channels and Cable TV channels have been taken down. RT.com is blocked.
> Whatever happened of press freedom and freedom of opinion?


civilized ppl dont like free "uncivilized" voices corrupting their sophisticated "europen" minds!


----------



## sur

‘Pro-Russian’ hacking group hits back at Anonymous​Hackers *Killnet *claim responsibility for the attack that *knocked out Anonymous’ and Zelensky’s website*


A group of purportedly *pro-Russian hackers calling themselves Killnet *has taken down a website associated with the Anonymous hacking collective, a site belonging to the far-right Ukrainian militia group Right Sector, and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky’s own website.

Users who attempted to access anonymoushackers.net on Tuesday were unable to do so,* receiving a 500 internal server error*, and the site appeared to still be down as of Wednesday. Zelensky’s website and that of far-right group Pravy Sektor (Right Sector) were also reportedly rendered inaccessible, though the militia’s site appears to have been restored as of Wednesday.

A video posted to YouTube by Killnet addresses “_Russian people_,” featuring a hooded, voice-distorted figure declaring, “_We welcome you from a nation of a friendly union_.” Explaining that the internet is full of fake news, the voice urges the viewer not to be led astray, and to “_under no circumstances doubt your country_.”

*The hackers blame Zelensky for the war in Ukraine*, arguing that he “_adopted the wrong policies_” and is now “_paying with the lives of his people for that_.” US President Joe Biden was dismissed as a short-termer who “_doesn’t want to die, may he rest in peace_,” while his EU counterparts were merely “_American prostitutes who can do nothing_.”
“_Soon this conflict will be over and peace will be ours_,” the hackers reassured their Russian viewers, snarking that Anonymous had “_better restore your website_,” which “_looks pathetic after the threats you voiced against our nation._”

Little information regarding Killnet is readily available, and it is not clear whether the hacking group existed before Tuesday’s action.
Anonymous had previously conducted a series of distributed denial of service attacks on RT, Sputnik, and other Russian state-funded media, as well as on government and business websites. They also took credit for doxxing members of the Russian military.

A Twitter account claiming to speak for the group, @YourAnonOne, announced on Thursday that the hacker collective had “_officially_” declared cyber-war on the Russian government, while another account, @YourAnonTV, claimed to have hacked Russian state TV channels to broadcast “_the truth about what happens in Ukraine_,” presenting a series of disjointed, context-free clips of bombed-out buildings and injured people.

Anonymous began as a relatively apolitical “_hacktivist_” collective infiltrating and doxxing groups from the Church of Scientology to dark-net child **** rings to US-based private intelligence corporations such as Stratfor and HBGary. It later took on a more political bent, participating in the Arab Spring uprisings, digitally intervening on the side of the US in the wars in Libya and Syria, and joining in anti-government campaigns in Iran.

The formerly anti-establishment hacker collective’s attacks on Russian media have mirrored those of major social media platforms, most of which have banned Russian state outlets from monetizing their content or even appearing in top searches. The EU announced over the weekend that it would ban all RT broadcasts, while Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube have blocked access to both RT and Sputnik in Europe at the EU’s request. Microsoft has de-ranked Russian state outlets on its search engine Bing and ceased displaying their content on MSN.com, while Apple and Google have yanked RT’s app from their stores.




Ukrainians turning against each other?
Zelensky gave away free KKs to these kind of people.
*One comment suggest that these may be deserters*.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499036321679036421
~~~Warning about the comments under this tweet - Graphic~~~

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497941318642941957

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499357330005274625
Some more POW:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499208317641576452

Produce for thought, I mean fruit:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498974422916603907

*Multiple PDF members have shared pictures of Ukrainian civilians preparing Molotov cocktails to throw on Russians.
There's a video of such civilian group butchered* [sorry for lack of a better word]*, cocktails still by their sides. Cannot share that video here.
So don't do that.*

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## Madni Bappa

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498491202810757121


Mersheimer at UChicago said something similar


----------



## RescueRanger

Aesterix said:


> Here in UK all Russian Media websites , Youtube channels and Cable TV channels have been taken down. RT.com is blocked.
> Whatever happened of press freedom and freedom of opinion?


Select any Asian server on your VPN and you should be fine to watch it if you wish to.

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## RescueRanger

If the Ukrainians have got an ace in the hole they better use it now:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499229148065280003

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499239334448451597
The Russians are really bringing in the big guns, these things are fortress busters:

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## Avicenna

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499105158445387781



Bro if you have followed World events over the last many years....the mask has fallen off with this Ukraine war.

The levels of hypocrisy is disgusting at this point.

I mean I cringe every fookin time I see anything about Ukraine.

The world needs multi-polarity.

Not one in which the West is judge, jury and executioner.

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## Darius77

RescueRanger said:


> If the Ukrainians have got an ace in the hole they better use it now:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499229148065280003
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499239334448451597
> The Russians are really bringing in the big guns, these things are fortress busters:


The Russians will give the Kiev Nazis a week to surrender and they have already opened a southern road corridor for civilians to escape. If the Kiev racist Nazis don't surrender, it will be a mega Gronzy on the steppe.

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## RescueRanger

RescueRanger said:


> If the Ukrainians have got an ace in the hole they better use it now:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499229148065280003
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499239334448451597
> The Russians are really bringing in the big guns, these things are fortress busters:



The only saving grace with this is that Tyumen, Tyumen is 2,380Km from Kyiv, that is a 2 1/2 journey via rail but we all know rail networks are inoperable in Ukraine. Unless this video is far older, another interesting fact here is the fact the Russians would have these on open display and not in a Box Car or Tarp. 

Perhaps "optics" or similar tactic to rattle the enemy.


----------



## Vapnope

Gentlemen, this is an invasion from Russian side even if you call it preemptive strikes, it still is an aggression. I have noticed that some posters are justifying it because either they believe that Ukrainians are racists or West has been a hypocrite. While this is true that both things are correct however civilians dying at the hands of forces didn't deserve it and just because West bombed civilians, it doesn't mean we should support Russian bombing as well. 

Think from human perspective and not from East vs West perspective. Thousands have died and thousands will become disabled for life be it Russian or Ukrainians. 

You can always point towards the hypocrisy of west or racism by White people without justifying war crimes by their opponents.

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## RescueRanger

Vapnope said:


> Gentlemen, this is an invasion from Russian side even if you call it preemptive strikes, it still is an aggression. I have noticed that some posters are justifying it because either they believe that Ukrainians are racists or West has been a hypocrite. While this is true that both things are correct however civilians dying at the hands of forces didn't deserve it and just because West bombed civilians, it doesn't mean we should support Russian bombing as well.
> 
> Think from human perspective and not from East vs West perspective. Thousands have died and thousands will become disabled for life be it Russian or Ukrainians.
> 
> You can always point towards the hypocrisy of west or racism by White people without justifying war crimes by their opponents.



Very well said, there is no if or but about it. This is an aggressive act and sensible people would pray that sane minds come to the table and conclude this insanity before it escalates further.

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## newb3e

Darius77 said:


> The Ukrainian Nazis have made it clear that they will kill Russian prisoners, which is totally against the Geneva Convention, so the Russia will now take the velvet glove off and encircle and starve the Uki Nazis. Most of the east up to the traditional Kievan-Rus natural boundary of Dnieper River is now firmly in Russian hands. The whole operation has caused less than 500 lives or less than daily accidents toll in Russia. The Kiev railway station has just been hit by ground to ground missiles, most likely Tochka which the Russians were about to dismantle but getting good use.
> 
> OTR-21 Tochka is a Soviet tactical ballistic missile. Its GRAU designation is 9K79; its NATO reporting name is SS-21 Scarab. It is transported in a 9P129 vehicle and raised prior to launch. It uses an inertial guidance system. Wikipedia
> Length: 6.4 m (21 ft)
> Maximum speed: 1.8 km/s (1.1 mi/s; Mach 5.3)
> Accuracy: 150 m (Scarab A)
> Mass: 2,000 kg (4,400 lb) Scarab A; 2,010 kg (4,430 lb) Scarab B; 1,800 kg (4,000 lb) Scarab C
> Engine: Single-stage Solid-fuel rocket; 96kN
> Guidance system: Inertial guidance, Tochka-R added passive radar against radar installations
> Warhead: Chemical, 100 kt nuclear warhead, EMP, or fragmentation filling


but "civilized" Ukranian can commit war crimes! 

for all the pro western puppies in the world living in as they call it sub human/third world countries this war and this open hypocrisy should be an eye opener! fkers dont even consider such puppies as humans and yet they bow down to western ideas!

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499253741207408640

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## hualushui

Vapnope said:


> Gentlemen, this is an invasion from Russian side even if you call it preemptive strikes, it still is an aggression. I have noticed that some posters are justifying it because either they believe that Ukrainians are racists or West has been a hypocrite. While this is true that both things are correct however civilians dying at the hands of forces didn't deserve it and just because West bombed civilians, it doesn't mean we should support Russian bombing as well.
> 
> Think from human perspective and not from East vs West perspective. Thousands have died and thousands will become disabled for life be it Russian or Ukrainians.
> 
> You can always point towards the hypocrisy of west or racism by White people without justifying war crimes by their opponents.


There are always some people who say the *right nonsense* but can't solve real problems

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## mingle

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499105158445387781


I thought Scott is in jail?


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## Vapnope

hualushui said:


> There are always some people who say the *right nonsense* but can't solve real problems


How would war crimes will deter people from racism?


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## Darius77

hualushui said:


> There are always some people who say the *right nonsense* but can't solve real problems


They are known as coconut apologists for western racist warmongers. The west is full of them. They also were the cheerleaders for US and NATO genocidal wars on Muslim countries. Now these coconuts fail to acknowledge that Ukraine sent 7,000 racist troops to Iraq, who also committed various atrocities. The hypocrisy of these morally bankrupt puppets is beyond appalling.

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## khansaheeb

Vapnope said:


> Gentlemen, this is an invasion from Russian side even if you call it preemptive strikes, it still is an aggression. I have noticed that some posters are justifying it because either they believe that Ukrainians are racists or West has been a hypocrite. While this is true that both things are correct however civilians dying at the hands of forces didn't deserve it and just because West bombed civilians, it doesn't mean we should support Russian bombing as well.
> 
> Think from human perspective and not from East vs West perspective. Thousands have died and thousands will become disabled for life be it Russian or Ukrainians.
> 
> You can always point towards the hypocrisy of west or racism by White people without justifying war crimes by their opponents.


Yes, any war is a war of immense suffering , an exchange of pain with one side hoping to give more than the other.


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## RescueRanger

mingle said:


> I thought Scott is in jail?


Apparently not

… #nocomment 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499244211496968192

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## Vapnope

Darius77 said:


> They are known as coconut apologists for western racist warmongers. The west is full of them. They also were the cheerleaders for US and NATO genocidal wars on Muslim countries. Now these coconuts fail to acknowledge that Ukraine sent 7,000 racist troops to Iraq, who also committed various atrocities. The hypocrisy of these morally bankrupt puppets is beyond appalling.


How war crimes are okay?


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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499223633050234880

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## Vapnope

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499223633050234880


And pushing will have a limit as well. You sanction Russia like North Korea and it might end up doing more harm to the world.


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## mingle

RescueRanger said:


> Apparently not
> 
> … #nocomment
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499244211496968192


Thanks I remember yrs back but lost track but checked Wikipedia got it


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## dBSPL

I would like the Forum Mods to be more sensitive to the FORUM RULES that each member accepts during their membership. I wish you to warn the members, who obviously carry out propaganda activities(by developing political hatred and Indoctrination rhetorics) and trying to constantly erode the forum's ethical stance.

Only in the last few pages, the following rules have been disregarded.
@waz


> *Ethnic / political / nationalistic hate*
> 
> Needless to say, PDF wishes to be a productive exchange of ideas and not a place of spreading communal, national, political or religiously motivated hatred. Members found involved in such activities would be severely penalized.
> 
> *Special Section: using social issues for inciting ethnic / nationalistic / political hatred*
> 
> Social issues such as sexual harassment, rape, child molestation or abuse are not to be used to incite ethnic / nationalistic / race inspired hatred nor political point scoring. PDF management would severely penalize any such threads / posts. If you are a good human being, kindly, be an ally of victims and do not abuse victims for your gains
> 
> *Racism*
> 
> PDF is not a platform for spreading racism nor do we condone it. Any such threads / posts / materials would lead to heavy penalization.
> 
> *Flaming / baiting*
> 
> A special form of trolling whereby, threads or posts aimed at inciting an individual or group of people to be emotionally charged and incite fighting are not allowed. PDF is especially against using such posts or threads to incite hatred against politically belligerent nations or group of people e.g. Indians, Pakistanis or Saudis, Iranians etc. This would only add fuel to the flames. That’s not what PDF stands for.
> 
> *Indoctrination*
> 
> Sharing of information garnered at indoctrination of the public are not allowed. That includes political / religious / ethnic indoctrination are not allowed at PDF and would be penalized.
> 
> *Political name calling*
> 
> Using politically degrading names are not what PDF stands for and this applies for every country. PDF is politically neutral.
> 
> *Political campaigning*
> 
> You are encouraged to engage in political debates as well as project your own views about the political philosophy that you hold. However, PDF is not a platform for garnering political capital such as votes. Such threads or posts would be penalized. That doesn’t mean that you do not project your views or encourage others to vote, voicing your opinion as to who, in your view, should get to be in power. However, running political ads on behalf of political parties and hijacking the platform/ threads/ posts is not what PDF is for.
> 
> *Spamming*
> 
> Repeated messages either nonsensical or intended to scam people would ensue a permanent ban. Posts of business promotion would be considered spamming unless the senior management has been informed before postage.

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## Darius77

Vapnope said:


> How war crimes are okay?


War crimes against "brown, black or yellow" people are quite OK in the western racist hypocrites book. In the genocide of Muslims, It is referred to as "war against terrorism".

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## NA71

Vapnope said:


> Gentlemen, this is an invasion from Russian side even if you call it preemptive strikes, it still is an aggression. I have noticed that some posters are justifying it because either they believe that Ukrainians are racists or West has been a hypocrite. While this is true that both things are correct however civilians dying at the hands of forces didn't deserve it and just because West bombed civilians, it doesn't mean we should support Russian bombing as well.
> 
> Think from human perspective and not from East vs West perspective. Thousands have died and thousands will become disabled for life be it Russian or Ukrainians.
> 
> You can always point towards the hypocrisy of west or racism by White people without justifying war crimes by their opponents.


Very well said. How it could be avoided? The Ukrainian Move is not acceptable to Russians...and the West continued to instigate the conflict and they are succeeded.

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## Microsoft

Vapnope said:


> Gentlemen, this is an invasion from Russian side even if you call it preemptive strikes, it still is an aggression. I have noticed that some posters are justifying it because either they believe that Ukrainians are racists or West has been a hypocrite. While this is true that both things are correct however civilians dying at the hands of forces didn't deserve it and just because West bombed civilians, it doesn't mean we should support Russian bombing as well.
> 
> Think from human perspective and not from East vs West perspective. Thousands have died and thousands will become disabled for life be it Russian or Ukrainians.
> 
> You can always point towards the hypocrisy of west or racism by White people without justifying war crimes by their opponents.



What about the people suffering due to sanctions?

Let's suppose there is no war today and Ukraine goes on to join NATO. Then NATO takes the fight to Russia mainland. Do we go on talking about aggression and how sad it is to see civilian deaths? When its just a repeat of every other western war?

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## Vapnope

Darius77 said:


> War crimes against "brown, black or yellow" people are quite OK in the western racist hypocrites book. In the genocide of Muslims, It is referred to as "war against terrorism".


It is like saying "They are bad, so i am just like them". 
It is not about them, it about you and what you believe. I hope my comment was clear.



Microsoft said:


> What about the people suffering due to sanctions?
> 
> Let's suppose there is no war today and Ukraine goes on to join NATO. Then NATO takes the fight to Russia mainland. Do we go on talking about aggression and how sad it is to see civilian deaths? When its just a repeat of every other western war?


There were other means to stop Ukraine, this certainly was the last resort which Russia used as a first.

If you can just read through my comment, you will realize that i am not saying West is good either.



NA71 said:


> Very well said. How it could be avoided? The Ukrainian Move is not acceptable to Russians...and the West continued to instigate the conflict and they are succeeded.


And now you see whole of Europe is up in arms. Germany spending $100billion on defense, Finland and Sweden thinking about more defense pacts and even the Switzerland is coming out of neutrality.

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## Amigator

Titanium100 said:


> The entire east europe hosts no foreign population citizens because nobody even goes there in the first place because they are poor these eastern european countries. It's all West Europe.
> 
> Besides I don't even understand why he has to be so passionate about it. It is his home and he has the right to not let anyone he doesn't want in and don't see why some even pressing him for other ways and the woman questioning didn't even asked him about that question.. But either way that is his home and you only let in whomever you want there is no pressure here and no reason even talking about just shout your borders and say no thanks... Example China takes literally nobody doesn't matter who European, African etc etc there is no migration at all zero and they are not insecure about it. No need to shout about it just do you and put it into the constiution
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think they are


Next number is of Poland.

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## Whizzack

A brief intermezzo...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499262573409091589
the tune's kinda catchy to me.. ☺️
May peace prevail soon... 🙏

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## dBSPL

Titanium100 said:


> The entire east europe hosts no foreign population citizens because nobody even goes there in the first place because they are poor these eastern european countries. It's all West Europe.
> 
> Besides I don't even understand why he has to be so passionate about it. It is his home and he has the right to not let anyone he doesn't want in and don't see why some even pressing him for other ways and the woman questioning didn't even asked him about that question.. But either way that is his home and you only let in whomever you want there is no pressure here and no reason even talking about just shout your borders and say no thanks... Example China takes literally nobody doesn't matter who European, African etc etc there is no migration at all zero and they are not insecure about it. No need to shout about it just do you and put it into the constiution
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think they are


Eastern European countries are like the villages of Europe. In winter, the population is as low as possible. Because people prefer the central economies of Europe to live and work in better conditions. Bulgaria, Macedonia are the countries I go to regularly, almost all of the educated young population leave the country unfortunately.

If you draw a border from the Eastern Balkans to the Baltic; Except maybe Poland, the economic power of other countries is very limited. They are vitally dependent on EU funds, even for infrastructure investments.

Now let's assume that the Ukrainian war continues for at least 1 more year: And let's distribute 4 million of the 5 million refugees to Romania, Moldova, Slovakia and Poland. This will produce an economically unmanageable result. Not to mention the fights that will arise in the distribution of another lucky million Ukrainians to other European countries.


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## Bengal71

RescueRanger said:


> You know what they say about besti...
> View attachment 820273
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you very much for sharing that, just a word of caution on that reddit, a lot of posts on it have been taken down recently. But this could be very plausible considering that many Turkish accounts have also shared tweets praising TB2 for wrecking a supply train.
> 
> 
> It's really infuriating to be honest.



These hypocrites then criticize China's great firewall.

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## LeGenD

khansaheeb said:


> What a wonderful hypocritical world. A European country gets attacked and all the colonialists and their poodles go berserk, what about all the dozens of non-European countries that have been attacked with wars causing millions of deaths?


I see your point but a major concern is that war in Europe can lead to much bigger crisis like a world war. This is something that much of the world does not want. A stable Europe is in the best interests of all.


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## Microsoft

Vapnope said:


> There were other means to stop Ukraine, this certainly was the last resort which Russia used as a first.
> 
> If you can just read through my comment, you will realize that i am not saying West is good either.



I understand what you're saying and you're correct. But if you look from the Russian POV this is the only way to avert greater suffering for the Russian people, which would happen if Ukraine joined NATO.
I'm not sure what other means they could've used to stop NATO membership and if they could they would have.



LeGenD said:


> I see your point but a major concern is that war in Europe can lead to much bigger crisis like a world war. This is something that much of the world does not want. A stable Europe is in the best interests of all.



What makes a world war? European countries' involvement?


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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499259886189830148

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## Madni Bappa

Damn Doug just said what Bajwa says all the time regions develop. Here he's saying pretty much same thing

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## FairAndUnbiased

Vapnope said:


> There were other means to stop Ukraine, this certainly was the last resort which Russia used as a first.


The problems with Ukraine started in 2013 with Euromaidan protests which led to riots and the overthrow of the Ukrainian president in 2014, which led to marginalization of the Russian speaking minority, which led to the Donbass and Crimea revolution, then a 2015-2021 attempt for Ukraine to retake Donbass and Crimea... which ended in this war.

I'm not saying anything about moral judgments, I'm just giving you the facts.

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## mingle

Amigator said:


> Next number is of Poland.


Zero chance

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## Piotr

One week into the Russian special operation in the Ukraine – update​March 02, 2022

So we are a week in and I think it is time to take short pause and see what happened over the last 7 days.

The Russian attack began, as predicted, mostly by strikes with standoff weapons. *24 hour hours later the Ukie air force and navy ceased to exist*. In this initial phase, few Ukrainian units were directly engaged.
The bulk of the Nazi forces is in Donbass and it took the LDNR forces several days to break through the Nazi defenses, but eventually they did it in two directions. At the same time, while the heavy combats between the Nazi forces in the Donbass and the LDNR forces were taking place, the Russian launched a two pronged offensive from the north and south to envelop the Nazi force concentrations. Interestingly, in spite of the fact that the two Russian forces have not reached each other and in spite of the existing no man’s land between them, *the Ukronazis are not making any serious efforts to break through* since they must realize that the entire area between the two Russian forces is a big “free fire zone” for Russian artillery, CAS aircraft and attack helicopters. *For all practical purposes the entire Nazi concentration of course in the Donbass is now locked into an operational cauldron*.
*The same is true for the Nazi forces in Mariupol*. For them, it’s curtain down, show over.
There is a large Nazi force left in only one location: *Odessa*. It appears that the Russians want to encircle it and then take a final decision on how to deal with this city.
*Kiev is a total mess*, the Russians did not even try to enter the city yet, but the crazy rumors combined with terrified Ukronazis will make this one a particularly difficult situation to resolve. I personally hope that the Russians stay as they are, block the city on all sides, open a humanitarian corridor and wait until the time is right.
*On the informational war, the West gave Russia a thorough thrashing*: RT and Sputnik are banned everywhere, absolutely insane rumors are circulating (see example below), I know for fact that some US colleges have banned their computers from accessing any .ru or .su websites – yes entire domain names are being shut down – Russian diplomats get assaulted (in one of the 3Bs statelets if I remember correctly).
The western PSYOP onslaught is so powerful that even some people in Russia are fearful and sincerely worry “what will happen to us next?!”.
Western IT companies are disconnecting, throttling, while “private” western crackers are unleashing DDoS attack on pretty much all the main Russian websites, not only informational ones, but also those who are used to run the civilian infrastructure of Russia. I am not impressed by how much (or little) Russian PR people did to prepare for this which was easy to see coming. *Here, again, the West so far is winning, but a huge margin*.
*The western society is displaying its hatred of all things Russian in every way it can*: hundereds and maybe thousands of students are summarily expelled from western colleges (which used to be bastions of freedom). In a Swiss city the child of a friend of mine was beat up in school for being an “evil Russian”. Artists are expelled, others pressured to condemn their own country and president, western presstitutes and politicians unceasingly vomit at Russia, Russians and everything Russian!
Which tells me how truly impotent and frustrated they are 

That being said, *here is the good news*: Today, one of our favorite trolls managed to bypass moderation and post this (see comment).






What is important here is to realize that whether this guy does it for money in a NATO troll farm or with utter sincerity, he is about to get a really big, probably huge, mental shock.

Right now, the entire western narrative hangs on this kind of nonsense: Russia is about to be totally defeated, the Ukie army and people have won on all fronts, and Ze, backed by NATO, the EU, the US and the entire planet is about to deliver his conditions for a Russian capitulation.

The maps?
All fakes.
The local reports?
All fakes too.

So far, that has worked pretty well. But here are *the stone cold fact about the Ukie military*:

Air Force: gone
Navy: gone
Long range, standoff capabilities: gone
Air defenses: gone
Regular ground forces: no less than 65% (some say up to 80%) of the Ukie military is surrounded and condemned
Assorted Nazi units: I don’t have the figures, but A LOT of them are now either in the Donbass cauldron or in Mariupol. They will mostly not be taken prisoner, except for the leaders who will be tried and sentenced for their innumerable crimes.
So, in terms of the Russian goals, here is how I would score this:

*Ukrainian disarmament: mostly already done*, the Ukraine has nothing to threaten Russia with
*Ukrainian denazification: only at the early start, but conditions are excellent and I am confident that most of the hardcore Nazis will soon be dead*
One more thing I forgot to mention about the “no man’s land” west of the Donbass operational cauldron. It is shown in the map below where the black and yellow lines touch (and add about 5-10km on each side)

It’s not only that only small groups, maybe civilian cars at high speed can get out, it also means that *the entire Nazi force in the Donbass is not getting resupplied*. *Not by air, not by sea and not by road.*






Right now, amazingly, the Ukronazis are STILL shelling the LDNR, today 5 civilians were murdered by Ukie selling near Donetsk. So they are not even trying to break out, I suppose they know the score and with their supplies running out (many destroyed by heavy bombs) their lifespan is now counted in days.

Please keep in mind that while this force is surrounded, it did have SEVEN YEARS to dig in deep and place tons of concrete over their bunkers. But like the Ligne Maginot, while the LDNR were pinning down the Ukies, the Russian enveloped them from behind.

So one of two things will now happen.

Either the Russians will convince the Ukie commanders to surrender and evacuate safely or
*Russia will start using her really having guns* (MLRS, TOS-1, heavy artillery like the 240mm self-propelled gun-mortar 2S4 _Tyulpan_ or the 203mm self-propelled howitzer 2S7M _Malka_) and even fuel-air explosives like this one: (I know, it’s from CNN, but in this case, it is helpful)





In other words, *the real magnitude of the Ukrainian defeat will become impossible to conceal in just a few days. Then the narrative will shift from the “invincible Ukie Volkssturn” to “Russian atrocities”.*

That narrative will also probably stick since the western free press makes the original Nazi press look outright diverse and objective. But idiots such as the troll above will be very, very butthurt. I expect their “oy veh!!!!” to reach high heavens and heroic Ukies will be replaced by no less heroic celebrities sobbing over Ukie babies.

On a strategic level, the Empire of Lies did successfully force Russia to openly intervene. That is a fact and that is a defeat with the Russians will have to ponder over for many years. I will repeat, *here are two, alas very real, western victories:*

Forcing Russia to openly intervene
Very effectively controlling the narrative
But don’t get too upset too soon. For one thing, the authorities in Russia have FINALLY declared both _Dozhd_ and _Meduza_ as foreign agents and it seems these two zioliberal sewers are finally being shut down. Seeing how Medvedev is trying to repaint himself as a patriot, I think that the Atlantic Integrationists are now realizing that they were stupid to listen to the western propaganda. I have not followed the Russian 6th column at all, so I don’t know if they are still hoping that “Putin” (for them it is all about him, personally) will “lose” or whether they will chose to wrap themselves into the “too little, too late, I could have done better” flag. Frankly, I don’t really care.

Next, they will start seeing Russian 5th columnists and assorted “liberal” their signatures away from their “open letters” or, better, emigrating to the EU or Israel. I sincerely wish them a happy flight and I hope that upon leaving Putin’s Mordor and arriving in the Free West they will all burn their Russian passports (on camera if they want).

*So, what’s my “final intermediate conclusion” after week 1?*​
*The West gave Russia a bloody nose by forcing her intervention*, thereby crushing any chance for the EU to get decolonized in the next decade or more.

*The West gave Russia an even bloodier nose by very effectively controlling the narrative*.

But what’s next?

*Russia will/has disarm(ed) and will soon denazify the Ukraine, that is a given.*

But what after that? * Please remember that this is NOT about the Ukraine, this is about the entire future security architecture of Europe.*

I will just say this: while, no, Russia won’t invade the EU or even Poland, *the Russian war to push back NATO has only begun, it will last MANY MONTHS so be prepared for this. MONTHS*.

http://thesaker.is/one-week-into-the-russian-special-operation-in-the-ukraine-update/

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## Madni Bappa

Sweden and Finland have WMDs??


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## Madni Bappa

Whizzack said:


> A brief intermezzo...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499262573409091589
> the tune's kinda catchy to me.. ☺️
> May peace prevail soon... 🙏


Is he singing toss a coin to your Witcher in Russian? Is he Ukrainian or Russian??

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## Khanate

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498491202810757121




Arnaud did not include the core document in question.

Officially, NATO membership was dangled to Georgia and Ukraine in 2008 at Bucharest where 30+ heads of states met.

Quoting Article 23 of the Bucharest Summit Declaration from NATO's website

*NATO welcomes Ukraine’s and Georgia’s Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership in NATO. We agreed today that these countries will become members of NATO*. Both nations have made valuable contributions to Alliance operations. We welcome the democratic reforms in Ukraine and Georgia and look forward to free and fair parliamentary elections in Georgia in May. MAP is the next step for Ukraine and Georgia on their direct way to membership. Today we make clear that we support these countries’ applications for MAP. Therefore we will now begin a period of intensive engagement with both at a high political level to address the questions still outstanding pertaining to their MAP applications. We have asked Foreign Ministers to make a first assessment of progress at their December 2008 meeting. Foreign Ministers have the authority to decide on the MAP applications of Ukraine and Georgia.​
Unofficially, Georgia and Ukraine were to be made the "Taiwan" of Russia.

Pakistanis can relate because we were made frontline state in many containment strategies (Soviets and War on Islam) and given temporary access to western arms with a SEATO membership or Major non-NATO ally (MNNA) status. What is that worth today? Not a lot.

Like Pakistan, Georgia and Ukraine were sacrificial lambs for blowback.

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## jamahir

Piotr said:


> One week into the Russian special operation in the Ukraine – update​March 02, 2022
> 
> So we are a week in and I think it is time to take short pause and see what happened over the last 7 days.
> 
> The Russian attack began, as predicted, mostly by strikes with standoff weapons. *24 hour hours later the Ukie air force and navy ceased to exist*. In this initial phase, few Ukrainian units were directly engaged.
> The bulk of the Nazi forces is in Donbass and it took the LDNR forces several days to break through the Nazi defenses, but eventually they did it in two directions. At the same time, while the heavy combats between the Nazi forces in the Donbass and the LDNR forces were taking place, the Russian launched a two pronged offensive from the north and south to envelop the Nazi force concentrations. Interestingly, in spite of the fact that the two Russian forces have not reached each other and in spite of the existing no man’s land between them, *the Ukronazis are not making any serious efforts to break through* since they must realize that the entire area between the two Russian forces is a big “free fire zone” for Russian artillery, CAS aircraft and attack helicopters. *For all practical purposes the entire Nazi concentration of course in the Donbass is now locked into an operational cauldron*.
> *The same is true for the Nazi forces in Mariupol*. For them, it’s curtain down, show over.
> There is a large Nazi force left in only one location: *Odessa*. It appears that the Russians want to encircle it and then take a final decision on how to deal with this city.
> *Kiev is a total mess*, the Russians did not even try to enter the city yet, but the crazy rumors combined with terrified Ukronazis will make this one a particularly difficult situation to resolve. I personally hope that the Russians stay as they are, block the city on all sides, open a humanitarian corridor and wait until the time is right.
> *On the informational war, the West gave Russia a thorough thrashing*: RT and Sputnik are banned everywhere, absolutely insane rumors are circulating (see example below), I know for fact that some US colleges have banned their computers from accessing any .ru or .su websites – yes entire domain names are being shut down – Russian diplomats get assaulted (in one of the 3Bs statelets if I remember correctly).
> The western PSYOP onslaught is so powerful that even some people in Russia are fearful and sincerely worry “what will happen to us next?!”.
> Western IT companies are disconnecting, throttling, while “private” western crackers are unleashing DDoS attack on pretty much all the main Russian websites, not only informational ones, but also those who are used to run the civilian infrastructure of Russia. I am not impressed by how much (or little) Russian PR people did to prepare for this which was easy to see coming. *Here, again, the West so far is winning, but a huge margin*.
> *The western society is displaying its hatred of all things Russian in every way it can*: hundereds and maybe thousands of students are summarily expelled from western colleges (which used to be bastions of freedom). In a Swiss city the child of a friend of mine was beat up in school for being an “evil Russian”. Artists are expelled, others pressured to condemn their own country and president, western presstitutes and politicians unceasingly vomit at Russia, Russians and everything Russian!
> Which tells me how truly impotent and frustrated they are
> 
> That being said, *here is the good news*: Today, one of our favorite trolls managed to bypass moderation and post this (see comment).
> 
> View attachment 820313
> 
> What is important here is to realize that whether this guy does it for money in a NATO troll farm or with utter sincerity, he is about to get a really big, probably huge, mental shock.
> 
> Right now, the entire western narrative hangs on this kind of nonsense: Russia is about to be totally defeated, the Ukie army and people have won on all fronts, and Ze, backed by NATO, the EU, the US and the entire planet is about to deliver his conditions for a Russian capitulation.
> 
> The maps?
> All fakes.
> The local reports?
> All fakes too.
> 
> So far, that has worked pretty well. But here are *the stone cold fact about the Ukie military*:
> 
> Air Force: gone
> Navy: gone
> Long range, standoff capabilities: gone
> Air defenses: gone
> Regular ground forces: no less than 65% (some say up to 80%) of the Ukie military is surrounded and condemned
> Assorted Nazi units: I don’t have the figures, but A LOT of them are now either in the Donbass cauldron or in Mariupol. They will mostly not be taken prisoner, except for the leaders who will be tried and sentenced for their innumerable crimes.
> So, in terms of the Russian goals, here is how I would score this:
> 
> *Ukrainian disarmament: mostly already done*, the Ukraine has nothing to threaten Russia with
> *Ukrainian denazification: only at the early start, but conditions are excellent and I am confident that most of the hardcore Nazis will soon be dead*
> One more thing I forgot to mention about the “no man’s land” west of the Donbass operational cauldron. It is shown in the map below where the black and yellow lines touch (and add about 5-10km on each side)
> 
> It’s not only that only small groups, maybe civilian cars at high speed can get out, it also means that *the entire Nazi force in the Donbass is not getting resupplied*. *Not by air, not by sea and not by road.*
> 
> View attachment 820312
> 
> 
> Right now, amazingly, the Ukronazis are STILL shelling the LDNR, today 5 civilians were murdered by Ukie selling near Donetsk. So they are not even trying to break out, I suppose they know the score and with their supplies running out (many destroyed by heavy bombs) their lifespan is now counted in days.
> 
> Please keep in mind that while this force is surrounded, it did have SEVEN YEARS to dig in deep and place tons of concrete over their bunkers. But like the Ligne Maginot, while the LDNR were pinning down the Ukies, the Russian enveloped them from behind.
> 
> So one of two things will now happen.
> 
> Either the Russians will convince the Ukie commanders to surrender and evacuate safely or
> *Russia will start using her really having guns* (MLRS, TOS-1, heavy artillery like the 240mm self-propelled gun-mortar 2S4 _Tyulpan_ or the 203mm self-propelled howitzer 2S7M _Malka_) and even fuel-air explosives like this one: (I know, it’s from CNN, but in this case, it is helpful)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, *the real magnitude of the Ukrainian defeat will become impossible to conceal in just a few days. Then the narrative will shift from the “invincible Ukie Volkssturn” to “Russian atrocities”.*
> 
> That narrative will also probably stick since the western free press makes the original Nazi press look outright diverse and objective. But idiots such as the troll above will be very, very butthurt. I expect their “oy veh!!!!” to reach high heavens and heroic Ukies will be replaced by no less heroic celebrities sobbing over Ukie babies.
> 
> On a strategic level, the Empire of Lies did successfully force Russia to openly intervene. That is a fact and that is a defeat with the Russians will have to ponder over for many years. I will repeat, *here are two, alas very real, western victories:*
> 
> Forcing Russia to openly intervene
> Very effectively controlling the narrative
> But don’t get too upset too soon. For one thing, the authorities in Russia have FINALLY declared both _Dozhd_ and _Meduza_ as foreign agents and it seems these two zioliberal sewers are finally being shut down. Seeing how Medvedev is trying to repaint himself as a patriot, I think that the Atlantic Integrationists are now realizing that they were stupid to listen to the western propaganda. I have not followed the Russian 6th column at all, so I don’t know if they are still hoping that “Putin” (for them it is all about him, personally) will “lose” or whether they will chose to wrap themselves into the “too little, too late, I could have done better” flag. Frankly, I don’t really care.
> 
> Next, they will start seeing Russian 5th columnists and assorted “liberal” their signatures away from their “open letters” or, better, emigrating to the EU or Israel. I sincerely wish them a happy flight and I hope that upon leaving Putin’s Mordor and arriving in the Free West they will all burn their Russian passports (on camera if they want).
> 
> *So, what’s my “final intermediate conclusion” after week 1?*​
> *The West gave Russia a bloody nose by forcing her intervention*, thereby crushing any chance for the EU to get decolonized in the next decade or more.
> 
> *The West gave Russia an even bloodier nose by very effectively controlling the narrative*.
> 
> But what’s next?
> 
> *Russia will/has disarm(ed) and will soon denazify the Ukraine, that is a given.*
> 
> But what after that? * Please remember that this is NOT about the Ukraine, this is about the entire future security architecture of Europe.*
> 
> I will just say this: while, no, Russia won’t invade the EU or even Poland, *the Russian war to push back NATO has only begun, it will last MANY MONTHS so be prepared for this. MONTHS*.
> 
> http://thesaker.is/one-week-into-the-russian-special-operation-in-the-ukraine-update/



A wonderful article. You deserve a +ve rating for this ( I don't have the rights to give it unfortunately ).

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## GamoAccu

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499003256005341187

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## GumNaam

when they say rt it's banned everywhere, I dunno wtf are they talking about cuz I can watch rt news live on YouTube just fine and I'm in Seattle...am missing something here?

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## Gripen9

GumNaam said:


> when they say rt it's banned everywhere, I dunno wtf are they talking about cuz I can watch rt news live on YouTube just fine and *I'm in Seattle*...am missing something here?


Hey I am on the east side as well

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## Titanium100

This is hilarious..

Russian cats slapped with sanctions​Felines owned by Russians have been banned from international competitions as punishment for Moscow’s attack on Ukraine


The International Feline Federation (FIFe) has weighed in on the Ukraine crisis, banning Russian-owned cats from competing in its shows as a sanction for Moscow’s military attack on the former Soviet republic.

_“The FIFe executive board is shocked and horrified that the army of the Russian Federation invaded the Republic of Ukraine and started a war,”_ the Paris-based federation said on Tuesday. The group added that it _“cannot just witness these atrocities and do nothing.”_

As a result, cats belonging to Russian residents will be banned from entry at FIFe shows. In addition, no cats bred in Russia can be imported and registered in a FIFe pedigree book, the group said.


https://www.rt.com/russia/551104-russian-cats-fife-sanctions-ukraine/







GamoAccu said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499003256005341187



Don't know why she is active in US politics she should move out of the US

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## hunter_hunted

RescueRanger said:


> Ask yourself who had a vote in the UNSC and abstained and is conveniently missing from that map...



That is exactly what i was thinking where is that country , Good words for that country and bad words and painting Pakistan is some opportunistic eveil person

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## GumNaam

Gripen9 said:


> Hey I am on the east side as well


aaw no way dude, really? where exactly? Let's grab coffee sometime...🙂


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## Titanium100

Someone may have just entered the menu


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499288473920016387

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499287403273457664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499285641414258691


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## Titanium100




----------



## AZMwi

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Stop posting fakeNews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Video of moving ‘corpse' in Ukraine is actually from climate change protest in Vienna
> 
> 
> Many on social media assumed the video of a reporter in front of several bodies on a road was from Ukraine. One tweet said the Ukrainian 'PR disaster' was falling apart.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theprint.in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Video of moving ‘corpse’ in Ukraine is actually from climate change protest in Vienna


same applies to the western corporate media which is spreading lies so chill


----------



## NA71

Vapnope said:


> And now you see whole of Europe is up in arms. Germany spending $100billion on defense, Finland and Sweden thinking about more defense pacts and even the Switzerland is coming out of neutrality.



The question is why Ukraine is so much important to Both parties. Russians seem very reactive to any move by West to Ukraine inclusion in EU/NATO


----------



## arjunk

Turingsage said:


> What if India claims Pakistan and says it was part of India


India might as well claim the whole British empire by that logic. Unlike the USSR there was no Indian Union before the British Empire for Pakistan to break off.

It's like Luxembourg claiming all of Europe because it was all under Germany in WWII.


----------



## Metal 0-1

RescueRanger said:


> When the US and NATO say they don't have people on the ground. Make of that statement what you will, ofcourse they don't have "Serving" people on the ground in Ukraine. And that explains a lot about the effectiveness of the irregular warfare tactics deployed in defense of many cities.
> Patch of the "Forward Observation Group"
> View attachment 820234
> 
> *Alleged "EX" US SF attached to the Forward Observation Group in Kyiv*
> View attachment 820229
> 
> View attachment 820230
> 
> View attachment 820231


Forward Observation Group isn't a name of a unit in Ukrainian army rather FOG is the name of startup company formed by ex Army Rangers and Green Berets.

They have a YouTube account:


https://youtube.com/c/ForwardObservations



They uploaded their Ukraine trip videos.

Their website




__





Forward Observations Group


Boutique security consulting and tactical training.



forwardobservations.com





They sell their products here

Their Instagram account got deleted


Also the patch in question here is originally a Blackbeard patch belonging to SEAL Team 3

They other flag in picture is US Army MFF school flag.



So their intentions their are debatable no point arguing on that


----------



## Titanium100

Turingsage said:


> What if India claims Pakistan and says it was part of India and is fully justified in invading it and merging it back into India as it was divided by the British, a foreign colonial power.



You forgot the most critical and most important aspect.. We will invade India and annex it not the other way around.. This has never happened and always happened from the north not south. If anyone have claim on anything we have claim on all of India... Besides it would be a task we won't fail in.. If we were to fail to overrun some soft vegeterians we would have to throw ourselves from a cliff..

India doesn't worry us but just a future bread-basket for us and a cow that could potentially be milked financially... In the jungle the strongest eats and we are stronger then these vegetarians and they are useless in numbers

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## PaklovesTurkiye

Look Guys...

Asians, Africans, Central Asia/Middle East DON'T have any dog in this fight yet we may get affected by all of this fiasco.

It is important to understand and interpret who played who here...

US/Europe are actively providing weapons to Ukraine and add to that - continuous incoming sanctions on Russians....It is unprecedented. Power like Russia will/may not tolerate this.

If Russia is behind in crashing of Romanian/NATO air assets, as we just heard the news - then you guys can see where it is heading.

Russians will overtake Ukraine...War clouds on European continent are looming. Russians may not be able to damage US that much but certainly Europe will be *FIRST CASUALTY.*

Russia - like any other major/big player on world's stage is not innocent in any way....They have their quite bad share as well but here in this war, Russians can't be blamed much....US tricked them in. This may prove to be disastrous for everyone....

We can argue for days who is responsible for this war but one thing is clear.....

MULTI POLAR WORLD SUITS OUR NATIONS....In this sense, Russian resistance against US/Europe is welcoming sign....The rise of New Blocs/Strategies may become reality soon. 

People now a days are not stupid to join ONE CAMP.....The way, US/Europe try to pick up their opponent....Countries are realizing that their NUMBER can also come just like Russia/Ukraine are targeted......

US/Europe been over playing for too long....

*This is the time they must be stopped and balance to be restored....*

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## Saho

lmao

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## Titanium100

Saho said:


> lmao



The long tables are trending nowadays.. IKEA needs to up it's game


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## PaklovesTurkiye

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499268657133899776

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## Mohsin A

LMAO!!!!

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## GumNaam

Titanium100 said:


> Someone may have just entered the menu
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499288473920016387
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499287403273457664
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499285641414258691


nato's aim was to prevent war but looks like joining nato will bring war to your doorsteps. Russia is pummeling ukraine to make an frightening example outta them.


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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499299319673139200


----------



## INS_Vikrant

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499043075586469900
Western and Japanese flags removed from Russian Space Rocket

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## coffee_cup

RescueRanger said:


> Freedom of Speech, apparently RT's official twitter account is banned in all of Europe.
> View attachment 820258



When I was growing up, we were fighting against "Evil Soviet" and for the "Free world". Me and friends truly believed in the Western values of "Democracy", "Human Rights", "Freedom of Speech" etc. etc. and always got drawn to it.

Beautiful, magical words. Get you involved emotionally immediately.

But then the facts and reality starts to unfold before your own eyes .... the very same countries running around like mad hyenas committing genocides around the world and none of them is ever held responsible for that - you just shake your head in disbelief.

"Human Rights", "Democracy", "Freedom of Speech" are mere words. Beautiful, yet they do not exist - only self interests do. This is a lesson some growing powers like China etc have already learnt and I think it is right time that Pakistan learns that too. Media is a weapon and just like a lethal gun, only people knowing how to use it responsibily should be allowed to get a license!

Sorry, couldnt resist to write the obvious,

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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499299998739144707


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## dBSPL

Titanium100 said:


> Someone may have just entered the menu
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499288473920016387
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499287403273457664
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499285641414258691


Besides the Slavs, the patroness of the Uralic and Nordic peoples is modern Russia. Same people, same language, same religion, if you can go back far enough. In other words, the peoples of these countries cannot make decisions on their own and without consulting Russia.

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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499300442605600771

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> EU is at war with Russia effectively, by actively and openly funding an opposition that are at war with Russia. The "Freedom of Speech" right has long gone, now most of EU labelled RT and Novosti "Hostile Media" or like the US "Agent of a Foreign Country"
> 
> I mean if India is at war with Pakistan, you would not expect India to have Pakistan state own media still operating on its soil, right?



WRONG. 
EU is *NOT* at war with Russia. All the major countries have categorically stated that.

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## srshkmr

Titanium100 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499299998739144707


Since UK is waging war through media, they are their combat troops.

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## Saho

mingle said:


> Zero chance


I imagine things may change if they succeed taking Ukraine when their morals will boosted knowing they have 2 Russian friendy neighbors (Hungary and Belarus) that can be used as hubs to bully other borders of eastern European countries as an attempt to infiltrate their government.

If it took 7 days for 500K Ukrainians (and counting) to leave then imagine in the next 3 months when key parts of their country will be emptied.

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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499299818447028224
@dBSPL


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## PaklovesTurkiye

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499121363679858688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499115340747448325

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499154459028512778

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## dBSPL

Saho said:


> I imagine things may change if they succeed taking Ukraine when their morals will boosted knowing they have 2 Russian friendy neighbors (Hungary and Belarus) that can be used as hubs to bully other borders of eastern European countries as an attempt to infiltrate their government.
> 
> If it took 7 days for 500K Ukrainians (and counting) to leave then imagine in the next 3 months when key parts of their country will be emptied.


The Hungarian people have a unique position. They are protectionists, but they also lack the political structure to give up Europe enough to jump into the Russian bloc.

Hungarian politics starting kit: kick the azz of refugees, keep buying Russian gas, keep EU funds. Eurasianism and Turanism optional.

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## Titanium100

dBSPL said:


> Besides the Slavs, the patroness of the Uralic and Nordic peoples is modern Russia. Same people, same language, same religion, if you can go back far enough. In other words, the peoples of these countries cannot make decisions on their own and without consulting Russia.



An invasion into Sweden will be extremely bad for Denmark as majority of Swedes would flee into our country and not Norway because they are not part of EU and don't have the free border movement meaning citizens from Sweden can just settle down in Denmark with their passports and vice versa and Russia pushing into Sweden will bring entire of Sweden onto us and we can't handle that many refugees influx and it would be a disaster. If we shout our borders which we would likely love to do in such scenario we would be kicked out of EU and NATO and reason we can't take so many is because we are a small country we can't take 7-8 million fleeing swedes the whole country would collapse from within..

I also have several family members there in Sweden meaning during an invasion our house will personally be filled with fleeing family members

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## dBSPL

Titanium100 said:


> An invasion into Sweden will be extremely bad for Denmark as majority of Swedes would flee into our country and not Norway because they are not part of EU and don't have the free border movement meaning citizens from Sweden can just settle down in Denmark with their passports and vice versa and Russia pushing into Sweden will bring entire of Sweden onto off us and we can't handle that many refugees influx..
> 
> I also have several family members there in Sweden meaning during an invasion our house will personally be filled with fleeing family members


If we push a little harder, we can get Russia to create a legitimate reason to invade Denmark as well. Thus, we will solve the problem you mentioned.

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## Titanium100

dBSPL said:


> If we push a little harder, we can get Russia to create a legitimate reason to invade Denmark as well. Thus, we will solve the problem you mentioned.



Then I would be out in first flight to Malaysia Just like an Ostrich flees the rain before it comes cuz I will be out months or weeks before that song hits and premiers

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499304633164050432

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## TheNoob

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499121363679858688
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499115340747448325
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499154459028512778



Ok, now I really smell false flag fishery.

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## Titanium100

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499304633164050432



Wow


----------



## Trango Towers

Vapnope said:


> Gentlemen, this is an invasion from Russian side even if you call it preemptive strikes, it still is an aggression. I have noticed that some posters are justifying it because either they believe that Ukrainians are racists or West has been a hypocrite. While this is true that both things are correct however civilians dying at the hands of forces didn't deserve it and just because West bombed civilians, it doesn't mean we should support Russian bombing as well.
> 
> Think from human perspective and not from East vs West perspective. Thousands have died and thousands will become disabled for life be it Russian or Ukrainians.
> 
> You can always point towards the hypocrisy of west or racism by White people without justifying war crimes by their opponents.


You are 100% correct.
However,
Where is the war crimes in Palestine. Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, Kashmir.

Pin drop silence even by you

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## dBSPL

Titanium100 said:


> Then I would be out in first flight to Malaysia Just like an Ostrich flees the rain before it comes cuz I will be out months or weeks before that song hits and premiers








Sorry brother, we all belong to Mother Russia, you have nowhere to run.

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## Titanium100

dBSPL said:


> View attachment 820351
> 
> Sorry brother, we all belong to Mother Russia, you have nowhere to run.



I will have to flee somewhere eventually

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## Trango Towers

Mohsin A said:


> LMAO!!!!


Bristish Jews regularly go and serve Israel with no repercussions

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## K_Bin_W

Don't believe a single word coming out of the west and their cronies, below is worth your 10 mins.

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## RescueRanger

Metal 0-1 said:


> Forward Observation Group isn't a name of a unit in Ukrainian army rather FOG is the name of startup company formed by ex Army Rangers and Green Berets.
> 
> They have a YouTube account:
> 
> 
> https://youtube.com/c/ForwardObservations
> 
> 
> 
> They uploaded their Ukraine trip videos.
> 
> Their website
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Forward Observations Group
> 
> 
> Boutique security consulting and tactical training.
> 
> 
> 
> forwardobservations.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They sell their products here
> 
> Their Instagram account got deleted
> 
> 
> Also the patch in question here is originally a Blackbeard patch belonging to SEAL Team 3
> 
> They other flag in picture is US Army MFF school flag.
> 
> 
> 
> So their intentions their are debatable no point arguing on that


You are confusing the company with an actual special unit. Look harder please but nice try.

And no need to be a smart Alec with someone who knows about this perhaps a little more than you.

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## dBSPL

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499304633164050432


Flat prices starting from 340K hryvnia. Prices were very cheap but I guess the contractor will have to rebuild.

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## LeGenD

Trango Towers said:


> You are 100% correct.
> However,
> Where is the war crimes in Palestine. Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, Kashmir.
> 
> Pin drop silence even by you


There is appropriate time and thread for each topic. This thread is about Russia and Ukraine.



Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499304633164050432


I pointed out repeatedly that situation is very bad around Kyiv.

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## RescueRanger

K_Bin_W said:


> Don't believe a single word coming out of the west and their cronies, below is worth your 10 mins.


The young me would be biting his knuckles saying this, but I’m truly done with western media outlets.

The collective hypocrisy and selective amnesia is intolerable and insufferable, especially when you consider their deafening silence on other conflicts around the world.

I’m done, and quite frankly this thread has been a wonderful place to debate because it has exposed a number of people to me, and I’m truly glad for that.

As they say “charity begins at home” — a lesson for not just Pakistan but all developing nations.

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## 8888888888888

Russians are going to encircle Kiev and then they will batter the city into submission like what they did in Syria.

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## LeGenD

RescueRanger said:


> The young me would be biting his knuckles saying this, but I’m truly done with western media outlets.
> 
> The collective hypocrisy and selective amnesia is intolerable and insufferable, especially when you consider their deafening silence on other conflicts around the world.
> 
> I’m done, and quite frankly this thread has been a wonderful place to debate because it has exposed a number of people to me, and I’m truly glad for that.
> 
> As they say “charity begins at home” — a lesson for not just Pakistan but all developing nations.


Bro,

Unfortunately - all camps are guilty of misdirection and propaganda in some way, shape or form. Russians were denying reports of invading Ukraine until they did it. It is up to the individual to do fact-checking.

You may take a break if you feel like it but just to let you know - your contributions are highly valued here.

I will appreciate if you will keep us informed.

I wish I could be near you and treat you with Coke and Pizza to lighten your mood.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499012600826322946

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## jamahir

RescueRanger said:


> Freedom of Speech, apparently RT's official twitter account is banned in all of Europe.
> View attachment 820258



Western governments earlier used to spread propaganda about Communist East Germany doing an amount of surveillance in its society and in the recent past about Libyan Jamahiriya security using a surveillance computer system called Eagle I think but the same Western governments never spoke about the American government surveiling its own people's phone conversations, email exchanges etc and use of Israeli surveillance software ( Pegasus ) by friendly-to-NATO anti-democracy governments such as India's Modi government. So one rule for the Western bloc governments and another for non-Western-bloc countries.



Titanium100 said:


> This is hilarious..
> 
> Russian cats slapped with sanctions​Felines owned by Russians have been banned from international competitions as punishment for Moscow’s attack on Ukraine
> 
> 
> The International Feline Federation (FIFe) has weighed in on the Ukraine crisis, banning Russian-owned cats from competing in its shows as a sanction for Moscow’s military attack on the former Soviet republic.
> 
> _“The FIFe executive board is shocked and horrified that the army of the Russian Federation invaded the Republic of Ukraine and started a war,”_ the Paris-based federation said on Tuesday. The group added that it _“cannot just witness these atrocities and do nothing.”_
> 
> As a result, cats belonging to Russian residents will be banned from entry at FIFe shows. In addition, no cats bred in Russia can be imported and registered in a FIFe pedigree book, the group said.
> 
> 
> https://www.rt.com/russia/551104-russian-cats-fife-sanctions-ukraine/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't know why she is active in US politics she should move out of the US



I am a cat person and cats should bring humanity together but these NATO people are using their evil work using cats as means too.



INS_Vikramaditya said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499043075586469900
> Western and Japanese flags removed from Russian Space Rocket



Nice that they are wiping off the flags of West and Japan but what is the Indian flag doing on a Russian space rocket ? 



Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499304633164050432





Enigma SIG said:


> This is what freedom brings you.
> 
> View attachment 820355



Sirte, Libya, eleven years before, where NATO brought "freedom" and "democracy" :






What say, Mr. Messerschmitt, when will you be posting pictures from Iraq, Libya and Syria ? Do you have words for the above scene ?

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## ejaz007

Russia-Ukraine live news: 1m refugees flee war, ICC opens probe​_*Kherson becomes the first major urban centre to fall in Ukraine as fighting enters a second week and one million people flee war.*_





More than one million people have fled Ukraine since Russia launched its invasion, according to the UN [Markus Schreiber/AP]
By David Child and Farah Najjar
Published On 2 Mar 20222 Mar 2022
|
Updated: 
20 minutes ago

Russian troops have seized control of Kherson, in Ukraine’s south.
Several other cities, including the capital, Kyiv, northeastern Kharkiv and Mariupol, in the southeast, continue to be attacked.
President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says Ukraine’s defence lines are holding.
The United Nations says more than one million people have fled Ukraine amid Russia’s assault.
Western intelligence agencies claim a miles-long Russian military convoy near Kyiv has “stalled”.
The International Criminal Court (ICC) has opened an investigation into potential war crimes by Russia.





KEEP READING​list of 4 itemslist 1 of 4
Russia’s invasion of Ukraine: List of key events from day eight​list 2 of 4
UN General Assembly demands Russia withdraw troops from Ukraine​list 3 of 4
Photos: Shelling continues in Ukraine as Russian forces advance​list 4 of 4
How realistic is Vladimir Putin’s nuclear threat?​end of list

Here are all the latest updates:









Latest Ukraine updates: Talks spur deal on humanitarian corridors


Ukraine-Russia news from March 3: Kyiv and Moscow agree on plan for safe corridors to evacuate civilians.




www.aljazeera.com

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## Ali_Baba

jhungary said:


> Dude, what Russian do is what Russian do. How does it related to what EU do? Also *UK is NOT PART OF EU *have not been since 2021 (The whole Brexit thing, ringing any belln?) ........And UK Ofcom is still deciding whether or not to ban RT.
> 
> Have it ever occur to you they need the license fee? Or anything from BBC to have them keep operating? Russia already banned DW by the way, which mean they are no qualm on banning EU Media.
> 
> SMH..........



RT has not been taken down by UK Ofcom - but it is no longer available in the UK.

This is because the infrastructure in the EU has been shutdown and RT was headquarted in the EU - and the feeds from the EU to the UK were "cut" when all of RT EU was taken down.

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## Titanium100

Ali_Baba said:


> RT has not been taken down by UK Ofcom - but it is no longer available in the UK.
> 
> This is because the infrastructure in the EU has been shutdown and RT was headquarted in the EU - and the feeds from the EU to the UK were "cut" when all of RT EU was taken down.



Have had issues entering RT as it has been taken down several times


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499317778645463041


----------



## Primus

RescueRanger said:


> 1700, rookie numbers I know .


3600+ over here

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## Invicta

Ali_Baba said:


> RT has not been taken down by UK Ofcom - but it is no longer available in the UK.
> 
> This is because the infrastructure in the EU has been shutdown and RT was headquarted in the EU - and the feeds from the EU to the UK were "cut" when all of RT EU was taken down.


Rightly pointed out, this thread is full of uninformed people who don't have a clue on what is going on. It is just lazy to paint all countries with the same brush. They will be the first to complain if it was done to their race, religion or country.

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## Titanium100

More Russians captured 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497764210914172931

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499048268512493568

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## Madni Bappa

TH


K_Bin_W said:


> Don't believe a single word coming out of the west and their cronies, below is worth your 10 mins.


This means they're backing off from Ukraine. Now they'll want to spin the story in a totally different direction. 

Ukrainian info war seemed to have something like unit 8200 fingerprint over it.


----------



## Vapnope

Trango Towers said:


> You are 100% correct.
> However,
> Where is the war crimes in Palestine. Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, Kashmir.
> 
> Pin drop silence even by you


Have you seen my comments here on this forum? Clearly not !

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## Titanium100

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499048268512493568



They ran into stiff resistance it seems


----------



## Trango Towers

Vapnope said:


> Have you seen my comments here on this forum? Clearly not !


OK mate. Have a nice day.

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## NotSure

NotSure said:


> How the Ukrops are faking "russian" loses in this war.
> 
> That reminds me of the fake bodybuilders with their adobe gains.


More:

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## RescueRanger

jamahir said:


> I am a cat person and cats should bring humanity together but these NATO people are using their evil work using cats as means too.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice that they are wiping off the flags of West and Japan but what is the Indian flag doing on a Russian space rocket ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sirte, Libya, eleven years before, where NATO brought "freedom" and "democracy" :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What say, Mr. Messerschmitt, when will you be posting pictures from Iraq, Libya and Syria ? Do you have words for the above scene ?


They will never post pictures from that part of the world because it’s not got any political mileage or “aww” factor, who cares about some brown people in some brown town.

I going to leave it at that 

a) because it’s not fair on the people who genuinely want to discuss the Ukrainian conflict and this is not the fault the poor men, women and children of Ukraine who have lost everything because some man wanted to measure the size of his dick.

b) I don’t wish to derail the thread and get slapped by the mods

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## Titanium100

Ouch this one is big... WATCH


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499187490996899842

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## Trango Towers

LeGenD said:


> There is appropriate time and thread for each topic. This thread is about Russia and Ukraine.
> 
> 
> I pointed out repeatedly that situation is very bad around Kyiv.


Oh but is it? So if its just about Russia and Ukraine why worry about nato? Why the EU why the fascists and over racism. Why genocide and war crimes in Ukraine and not anywhere else.
Actually Ukraine has highlighted the stupidity of the white world and real heart felt racism. 
So please wake up and re adjust your mindset


----------



## RescueRanger

Ali_Baba said:


> RT has not been taken down by UK Ofcom - but it is no longer available in the UK.
> 
> This is because the infrastructure in the EU has been shutdown and RT was headquarted in the EU - and the feeds from the EU to the UK were "cut" when all of RT EU was taken down.


Well said and thank you.


----------



## Madni Bappa

Titanium100 said:


> More Russians captured
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497764210914172931

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## thetutle

FairAndUnbiased said:


> It won't last. Ukraine has a natural barrier in the middle of the country: the Dnieper River. All bridges on the Dnieper have been blown up by Ukraine.
> 
> That means East and West Ukraine are completely isolated from each other. Russia can just wrap up the east while mining the river and no supplies are getting through. Russia isn't active on the western side anyhow so there's no loss.



Russia can just attack from Belarus and bypass the river.


----------



## LeGenD

Trango Towers said:


> Oh but is it? So if its just about Russia and Ukraine why worry about nato? Why the EU why the fascists and over racism. Why genocide and war crimes in Ukraine and not anywhere else.
> Actually Ukraine has highlighted the stupidity of the white world and real heart felt racism.
> So please wake up and re adjust your mindset


You can discuss implications of the Russian - Ukrainian war. I have done so as well. For perspective, I provided an update that the new set-of-sanctions imposed on Russia have started to affect traders in Pakistan and China respectively. I did get some responses but I did not expand much in this regard to keep the thread in line.

You can discuss role of NATO as well. I have done so as well.

My point is that cursory references to what happened in Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Kashmir are fine but WE shall stay on topic.

I am just weary of branch-offs in other directions.

Mods had to remove many off-topic posts in this thread unfortunately.

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## RescueRanger

Titanium100 said:


> Ouch this one is big... WATCH
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499187490996899842





Titanium100 said:


> More Russians captured
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497764210914172931


Geneva convention expressly prohibits such questioning or degrading: inhuman treatment- pows are only entitled to be asked name rank and number.

That’s an old photo from day 2.

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## Titanium100

LeGenD said:


> I am just weary of branch-offs in other directions.



The thread is very self-centric and not focussed on Ukraine at all at times.. We should exclusively discuss Ukraine not off topics and bygones are bygones.. We are in the present inside a Ukraine thread

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## Metal 0-1

RescueRanger said:


> You are confusing the company with an actual special unit. Look harder please but nice try.
> 
> And no need to be a smart Alec with someone who knows about this perhaps a little more than you.


Dude I just told you what I know, 

Chill man. No need to be angry ☹️.


----------



## coffee_cup

Reading reports of media being banned in different countries.

Is the state funded BBC banned in Russia as well? 

Can someone tell?


----------



## Titanium100

RescueRanger said:


> Geneva convention expressly prohibits such questioning or degrading: inhuman treatment- pows are only entitled to be asked name rank and number.
> 
> That’s an old photo from day 2.



But not this..

I would say it is quite big catch

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499187490996899842


----------



## RescueRanger

coffee_cup said:


> Reading reports of media being banned in different countries.
> 
> Is the state funded BBC banned in Russia as well?
> 
> Can someone tell?


@Invicta since your British you’d be best places to answer this regarding BBC’s status.



Titanium100 said:


> But not this..
> 
> I would say it is quite big catch
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499187490996899842


I’m referring to the treatment of the soldier being questioned and asked about putin.

That is a blatant violation of the Geneva convention. 

*Article 14 *

Prisoners of war are entitled in all circumstances to respect for their persons and their honour.

*Article 17 *

Every prisoner of war, when questioned on the subject, is bound to give only his surname, first names and rank, date of birth, and army, regimental, personal or serial number, or failing this, equivalent information.

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## Iñigo

"Russians were denying reports of invading Ukraine until they did it"

Because the decision was taken at the last moment, until the last moment hope was held out for a possible dialogue; but seeing the blind fanaticism of the European rag dolls, then the last to be convinced within the Russian ruling class accepted the inevitable and took this grave, unpleasant and rational decision to on the one hand end with this counter-attack the war that started in 2014 and on the other hand avoid a much worse war in 5-10 years that could have atrocious consequences.

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## Lehrasap

GamoAccu said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499003256005341187



If she says that there were almost no chances of Ukraine joing Nato, then why to blame US and Biden, why don't she then blame Putin for invasion despite rare chance of Ukraine joining NATO?


----------



## LeGenD

Iñigo said:


> "Russians were denying reports of invading Ukraine until they did it"
> 
> Because the decision was taken at the last moment, until the last moment hope was held out for a possible dialogue; but seeing the blind fanaticism of the European rag dolls, then the last to be convinced within the Russian ruling class accepted the inevitable and took this grave, unpleasant and rational decision to on the one hand end with this counter-attack the war that started in 2014 and on the other hand avoid a much worse war in 5-10 years that could have atrocious consequences.


FYI









Russian Rhetoric Ahead of Attack Against Ukraine: Deny, Deflect, Mislead - FactCheck.org


As Russia amassed troops on the Ukrainian border, Russian leaders repeatedly denied that their country had plans to invade Ukraine. They blamed the U.S., Ukraine and others for the tension, insisting that Russia is a "peaceful country" and that it is "not going to attack anyone." Here we round...




www.factcheck.org





Russian military buildup around Ukraine lasted several months and was a clearly visible development since 2021. The intent was obvious and understood.

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## Metal 0-1

@RescueRanger also why don't you give me something to read about "Forward Observation Group" of Ukraine 

Rather going full apeshit
and asserting dominance of being a professional.


----------



## Iñigo

"there were almost no chances of Ukraine joing Nato"

(1) "for the time being" or "immediately" or "in the near future". And the Russians have been deceived for 30 years, 30 years, with promises and words.

(2) If that is so, why not put it in writing?

Enough of taking us as little children of the colossal and deadly Western mental kindergarten.


----------



## Lehrasap

Iñigo said:


> "Russians were denying reports of invading Ukraine until they did it"
> 
> Because the decision was taken at the last moment, until the last moment hope was held out for a possible dialogue; but seeing the blind fanaticism of the European rag dolls, then the last to be convinced within the Russian ruling class accepted the inevitable and took this grave, unpleasant and rational decision to on the one hand end with this counter-attack the war that started in 2014 and on the other hand avoid a much worse war in 5-10 years that could have atrocious consequence



This is not the case. 
The clashes in Ukraine since 2014 didn't stop due to PUTIN. 
If Ukraine wanted to join NATO, then again it was due to PUTIN.

It is due to the reason that PUTIN annexed Crimea since 2014, and consequence of this action of PUTIN have never allowed Ukraine to strive to make itself defendable against Russia. 

The clashes and wish to join NATO would have seized only if PUTIN showed the readiness to give back Crimea to Ukraine if it accepts not to join NATO. 

Therefore, the real culprit here is Putin, and not Ukraine.

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## Titanium100



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## RescueRanger

Metal 0-1 said:


> @RescueRanger also why don't you give me something to read about "Forward Observation Group" of Ukraine
> 
> Rather going full apeshit
> and asserting dominance of being a professional.



Here is one sub Reddit for you, the rest you can Google yourself:


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t38zqi

Enjoy the rabbit hole.

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## jamahir

NotSure said:


> How the Ukrops are faking "russian" loses in this war.
> 
> That reminds me of the fake bodybuilders with their adobe gains.



Caught !

Also, who's the angry cat in your profile picture ?



K_Bin_W said:


> Don't believe a single word coming out of the west and their cronies, below is worth your 10 mins.



Wonderful presentation. Kim Iverson is a good journalist and a decent person but I hope she doesn't betray and go the way of Al Jazeera who seemed at least impartial in the 2003 Iraq war but then in later years became a stooge of NATO.



ejaz007 said:


> The International Criminal Court (ICC) has opened an investigation into potential war crimes by Russia.



LOL, George Bush jr and Tony B'liar are still wanted by an international war crimes court set up in Malaysia and the two wanted on charges of war crimes in Iraq.




Titanium100 said:


> Ouch this one is big... WATCH
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499187490996899842



Ukranian government propaganda under torture is legal ? How will you act under torture ?


----------



## Invicta

RescueRanger said:


> @Invicta since your British you’d be best places to answer this regarding BBC’s status.


Officially BBC is not banned likewise RT is not banned in the UK by OFCOM. RT's transmissions have been suspended EU wide which stops their transmissions in UK as their headquarters and studios are EU based.

As far as ground realities go BBC or anything remotely anti-kremlin is currently banned in Russia or at least not available via normal means. BBC website is still accessible via VPN. Live broadcasts are not being streamed or viewable on Russian TV since the was started. 

This is the information I got from Russian colleagues who told their families in Russia that they were at war with Ukraine. A bit out of the blue for them as they thought it was just a border skirmish.

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## Sineva

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498673641910943756
*UN admits refugees have faced racism at Ukraine borders*
*Filippo Grandi, the organisation’s High Commissioner for Refugees, acknowledged this in a statement on Tuesday afternoon.*
*https://www.independent.co.uk/world/ukraine-racism-refugees-russia-war-un-b2025771.html*
The United Nations has admitted that some non-European refugees have faced discrimination while trying to flee to safety at Ukraine borders after their experiences were dismissed as lies and “Russian disinformation” by online commentators.

Filippo Grandi, the organisation’s High Commissioner for Refugees, acknowledged their plight during a press conference on Tuesday afternoon.



“You have seen reports in the media that there are different treatments – with Ukrainians and non-Ukrainians. Now our observations, and we possibly cannot observe every single post yet – but our observations is that these are not state policies – but there are instances which it has happened,” he said.


“There has been a different treatment (...). There should be absolutely no discrimination between Ukrainians and non-Ukrainians, Europeans and non-Europeans. Everyone is fleeing from the same risks.”


The UN plans to intervene to try to ensure that everybody receives equal treatment, Mr Grandi added.
Prior to this, Christine Pirovolakis, Senior External Relations Officer at the UK branch of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), told _The Independent_: “UNHCR is aware of reports of individuals facing challenges entering Poland from Ukraine and is following up on them.


“We advocate for access to safety for all, regardless their legal status, nationality and race as well as access to asylum for those who want to seek asylum.”

This comes after a number of Black, south Asian and Mediterranean refugees shared accounts of being blocked at borders while trying to make crossings while white Ukranians have been prioritised.

Black people living in the region told _The Independent_that they have been denied assistance during the worsening crisis with some taking to social media in recent days to share their experiences.

Organisations, government officials and public figures around the world have condemned the discriminatory treatment including the Mayor of London Sadiq Khan, the African Union and American entertainer Beyoncé.


The BeyGood charity, which Beyoncé launched in 2013, tweeted on Monday: “We are saddened by the news of African and other international students being denied at the border as they attempt to leave Ukraine. We are hopeful that the various embassies could swiftly rectify the situation to help those in need of support.”

During a visit to Slovakia on Tuesday, the EU Home Affairs Commissioner Ylva Johansson said the European Union must prepare for “millions” more refugees fleeing Russia’s invasion of Ukraine after around 500,000 have passed into the bloc.


Ms Johansson said she hoped the European Council would activate the temporary protection directive on Thursday giving protection to those fleeing, and added they were looking at deploying more people to help the EU country’s bordering Ukraine.

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## dBSPL

Iconic. I think I'll print some photos from the Ukraine war and make them poster.








Dozens of tanks lost from both sides as if passing through a meat grinder.

Ukraine = Tankistan.

In the 80s 90s there were vast tank parks, now there are tank cemeteries.

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## Iñigo

Crimea

(1) Crimea is Russia before California, Texas and Nevada was USA.

(2) And now you argue that you are defending an internal administrative decision of the USSR

(3) You want to argue that the USSR is divisible because it is a man-made thing but Ukraine is indivisible because it is a "God-made" thing, although we all know that it is a conglomerate made by Lenin, Stalin and Khrushchev.

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## Metal 0-1

RescueRanger said:


> Here is one sub Reddit for you, the rest you can Google yourself:
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t38zqi
> 
> Enjoy the rabbit hole.


My man there's no mention of FOG of Ukraine. It's just ex SOF members from FOG(company)with Ukrainian SF. There is simply no need to argue about it. 

There's really nothing to fight over yet you became angry.

And that patch is Blackbeard Queen Annon Revenge patch.


----------



## ILC

Titanium100 said:


> But not this..
> 
> I would say it is quite big catch
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499187490996899842


How do you know that's the same guy on the video?

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## jamahir

Iñigo said:


> Crimea
> 
> (1) Crimea is Russia before California, Texas and Nevada was USA.
> 
> (2) And now you argue that you are defending an internal administrative decision of the USSR
> 
> (3) You want to argue that the USSR is divisible because it is a man-made thing but Ukraine is indivisible because it is a "God-made" thing, although we all know that it is a conglomerate made by Lenin, Stalin and Khrushchev.



Hi, you make good points but sometimes you are reply to someone but you don't quote that member so your post appears random to people who are not continuously following this thread. So please quote that member.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499296094265696256

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## Al_Muhannad

Lehrasap said:


> Is it the fault of humanist Europe to give refuge to the Muslims and to give them the equal human rights?


Their lands were invaded in name of democracy. The immigrants paid the full price. It's West turn to deliver the democracy and freedom.

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## RescueRanger

LeGenD said:


> FYI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Rhetoric Ahead of Attack Against Ukraine: Deny, Deflect, Mislead - FactCheck.org
> 
> 
> As Russia amassed troops on the Ukrainian border, Russian leaders repeatedly denied that their country had plans to invade Ukraine. They blamed the U.S., Ukraine and others for the tension, insisting that Russia is a "peaceful country" and that it is "not going to attack anyone." Here we round...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.factcheck.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian military buildup around Ukraine lasted several months and was a clearly visible development since 2021. The intent was obvious and understood.


Yes and it amazes me that people are commenting here without knowing the full facts of the situation on the ground, I mean there is full Wikipedia page about it now, if you are unsure start there and then start looking at reddit/media and independent outlets

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## Al_Muhannad

Lehrasap said:


> thus millions of Muslims try their best to immigrate to Europe and enjoy the equal civil rights.


Take away the world financial institutions from the west, and it would be 1492 again. The church kaferizing Muslims like in Spain, and selling white-colored blue eyed women as sex slaves.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499335684351528961

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499331990088204294

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499335217613524995

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499335085094588421

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## dBSPL

Ukranian MLRSs

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499328398778408961

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## RescueRanger

Invicta said:


> Officially BBC is not banned likewise RT is not banned in the UK by OFCOM. RT's transmissions have been suspended EU wide which stops their transmissions in UK as their headquarters and studios are EU based.
> 
> As far as ground realities go BBC or anything remotely anti-kremlin is currently banned in Russia or at least not available via normal means. BBC website is still accessible via VPN. Live broadcasts are not being streamed or viewable on Russian TV since the was started.
> 
> This is the information I got from Russian colleagues who told their families in Russia that they were at war with Ukraine. A bit out of the blue for them as they thought it was just a border skirmish.


Thank you so much, for taking the time to reply I appreciate it and your insight on this too . So I checked ofcom and they are like our PTA : https://www.pta.gov.pk/en



dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499296094265696256


Good for the Ukrainian morale if true but you know what they say "screenshot" or it didn't happen.

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## Al_Muhannad

Lehrasap said:


> Humanist Europe is neither Satan-Worshippers nor evil


I am inclined to believe that to some extent. But west actually follows a paganized version of message of Prophet Issa (PBUH). All this humanism, atheism, homosexuality, feminism, secularism are different faces of the same paganised version of message of Prophet Issa (PBUH).
Look how France discovered _*Laïcité (Secularism)*_.


----------



## TheNoob

Titanium100 said:


> More Russians captured
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497764210914172931



...These are ukranian soldiers that surrendered somewhere in the south DAYS ago.

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## coffee_cup

Invicta said:


> Officially BBC is not banned likewise RT is not banned in the UK by OFCOM. RT's transmissions have been suspended EU wide which stops their transmissions in UK as their headquarters and studios are EU based.
> 
> As far as ground realities go BBC or anything remotely anti-kremlin is currently banned in Russia or at least not available via normal means. BBC website is still accessible via VPN. Live broadcasts are not being streamed or viewable on Russian TV since the was started.
> 
> This is the information I got from Russian colleagues who told their families in Russia that they were at war with Ukraine. A bit out of the blue for them as they thought it was just a border skirmish.



Ground realities:

Any media outlet remotely reporting something that might seem favorable to Russia results in direct / indirect ban (like e.g. asking cable operators to remove the channels etc)

The state funded BBC is however still available in Russia, I just read it.

I dont mind, them banning Russian media.

BUT...

Next time if anyone from UK/US gives me a lecture about "freedom of speech", I am gonna give them piece of my mind.

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## Lehrasap

Al_Muhannad said:


> Take away the world financial institutions from the west, and it would be 1492 again. The church kaferizing Muslims like in Spain, and selling white-colored blue eyed women as sex slaves.


Why should we take the world financial institutions from the West?
The humanist pat of West gave refuge to millions of Muslims despite the presence of their financial institutes, although they didn't need to do this favour to Muslims in any way.
Even the rich Muslim countries were not ready to do this favour to their fellow Muslims.

You will be regarded as an unthankful nation if you still deny this blessing of the humanist West, which they bestowed upon you in name of humanity.


----------



## RescueRanger

Please may I recommend readers give this excellent guide by bellingcat a read:









Documenting and Debunking Dubious Footage from Ukraine’s Frontlines - bellingcat


A number of questionable videos suggesting provocations in eastern Ukraine have appeared online. Bellingcat is looking to track and analyse them.




www.bellingcat.com

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## dBSPL

Greek leftists. Protestors burn NATO flag and march with Russia flags in Thessaloniki. @Apollon, Foinikas


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499179013759246340
If they march as far as Alexandroupoli, I will support them from here.


----------



## TheNoob

RescueRanger said:


> Please may I recommend readers give this excellent guide by bellingcat a read:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Documenting and Debunking Dubious Footage from Ukraine’s Frontlines - bellingcat
> 
> 
> A number of questionable videos suggesting provocations in eastern Ukraine have appeared online. Bellingcat is looking to track and analyse them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bellingcat.com



I did, and the bias of this perspective to me is obvious.
They still haven't included the Old videos that were being portrayed as UAF victories or propaganda.

Most of which you can already find on this thread.
so, this article isn't debunking, it's just another mouthpiece.

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## Al_Muhannad

Lehrasap said:


> Why should we take the world financial institutions from the West?
> The humanist pat of West gave refuge to millions of Muslims despite the presence of their financial institutes, although they didn't need to do this favour to Muslims in any way.
> Even the rich Muslim countries were not ready to do this favour to their fellow Muslims.
> 
> You will be regarded as an unthankful nation if you still deny this blessing of the humanist West, which they bestowed upon you in name of humanity.


Ghazawe-e-Badr was actually fought in cause of Economic Warfare. There goes the institution argument. The anglo-saxons took 45 trillions dollars from my lands. Do you know what happens when a person does not return the money it owes to another person in White Man's Law?
*P.S. Hint*: Loss of freedom.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Kraetoz

coffee_cup said:


> Ground realities:
> 
> Any media outlet remotely reporting something that might seem favorable to Russia results in direct / indirect ban (like e.g. asking cable operators to remove the channels etc)
> 
> The state funded BBC is however still available in Russia, I just read it.
> 
> I dont mind, them banning Russian media.
> 
> BUT...
> 
> Next time if anyone from UK/US gives me a lecture about "freedom of speech", I am gonna give them piece of my mind.



West has no legs to stand on when it comes to freedom of speech, human rights violations and war crimes.

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## coffee_cup

Sineva said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498673641910943756
> *UN admits refugees have faced racism at Ukraine borders*
> *Filippo Grandi, the organisation’s High Commissioner for Refugees, acknowledged this in a statement on Tuesday afternoon.*
> *https://www.independent.co.uk/world/ukraine-racism-refugees-russia-war-un-b2025771.html*
> The United Nations has admitted that some non-European refugees have faced discrimination while trying to flee to safety at Ukraine borders after their experiences were dismissed as lies and “Russian disinformation” by online commentators.
> 
> Filippo Grandi, the organisation’s High Commissioner for Refugees, acknowledged their plight during a press conference on Tuesday afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> “You have seen reports in the media that there are different treatments – with Ukrainians and non-Ukrainians. Now our observations, and we possibly cannot observe every single post yet – but our observations is that these are not state policies – but there are instances which it has happened,” he said.
> 
> 
> “There has been a different treatment (...). There should be absolutely no discrimination between Ukrainians and non-Ukrainians, Europeans and non-Europeans. Everyone is fleeing from the same risks.”
> 
> 
> The UN plans to intervene to try to ensure that everybody receives equal treatment, Mr Grandi added.
> Prior to this, Christine Pirovolakis, Senior External Relations Officer at the UK branch of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), told _The Independent_: “UNHCR is aware of reports of individuals facing challenges entering Poland from Ukraine and is following up on them.
> 
> 
> “We advocate for access to safety for all, regardless their legal status, nationality and race as well as access to asylum for those who want to seek asylum.”
> 
> This comes after a number of Black, south Asian and Mediterranean refugees shared accounts of being blocked at borders while trying to make crossings while white Ukranians have been prioritised.
> 
> Black people living in the region told _The Independent_that they have been denied assistance during the worsening crisis with some taking to social media in recent days to share their experiences.
> 
> Organisations, government officials and public figures around the world have condemned the discriminatory treatment including the Mayor of London Sadiq Khan, the African Union and American entertainer Beyoncé.
> 
> 
> The BeyGood charity, which Beyoncé launched in 2013, tweeted on Monday: “We are saddened by the news of African and other international students being denied at the border as they attempt to leave Ukraine. We are hopeful that the various embassies could swiftly rectify the situation to help those in need of support.”
> 
> During a visit to Slovakia on Tuesday, the EU Home Affairs Commissioner Ylva Johansson said the European Union must prepare for “millions” more refugees fleeing Russia’s invasion of Ukraine after around 500,000 have passed into the bloc.
> 
> 
> Ms Johansson said she hoped the European Council would activate the temporary protection directive on Thursday giving protection to those fleeing, and added they were looking at deploying more people to help the EU country’s bordering Ukraine.



Just imagine walking 12 hours with a suitecase trolley in your hand. 

This is beyond outrageous!

Those Ukranian border guards who tried to stop them and tortured them should be brought to The Hague for war crimes!


----------



## RescueRanger

Image Dump for FOG operating in Ukraine:

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ESAx

Ukraine is starting counter attacks against Russian Forces

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## dBSPL

Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov: “The United States has dominated Europe, as Napoleon and Hitler did at the time.”

“The United States will not allow Europe to have strategic autonomy.”

“The hysteria of the West will pass. They will surpass it. We are always ready for dialogue.”

Yeah ! this is the Lavrov we know. Keep calm man, as like this.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RescueRanger

TheNoob said:


> I did, and the bias of this perspective to me is obvious.
> They still haven't included the Old videos that were being portrayed as UAF victories or propaganda.
> 
> Most of which you can already find on this thread.
> so, this article isn't debunking, it's just another mouthpiece.


Fair enough, but it's a starting point.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499338266365120515

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499338742104002560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499335217613524995

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499339115682308096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499332664033222656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499318792094203910

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Trango Towers

LeGenD said:


> You can discuss implications of the Russian - Ukrainian war. I have done so as well. For perspective, I provided an update of how a new set-of-sanctions imposed on Russia have started to affect traders in Pakistan and China respectively. I did get some responses but I did not expand much in this regard to keep the thread in line.
> 
> You can discuss role of NATO as well. I have done so as well.
> 
> My point is that cursory references to what happened in Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, Kashmir are fine but WE shall stay on topic.
> 
> I am just weary of branch-offs in other directions.
> 
> Mods had to remove many off-topic posts in this thread unfortunately.


And that's what it was... a cursory reference to remind that everyone that the west has double standards. There was no long drawn out post with lots of references videos or link. I don't see why you had an issue with it.

Anyways let's move on.

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## Al_Muhannad

Lehrasap said:


> You seem to be a religious fanatic. I need not indulge in any discussion with you.


Everybody has to believe in a value system and choose a side at some point in life. I chose Deen-e-Islam. You believe whatever you want. I am a fanatic in your eyes, and your are a collaborator in my eyes.
As the saying goes,

منم ادنیٰ ثناء خانِ محمد، غلامِ از غلامانِ محمد۔ ﷺ۔

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## Vergennes

TheNoob said:


> ...These are ukranian soldiers that surrendered somewhere in the south DAYS ago.



They were captured by Ukrainian police officers,definitely russians.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499333430173179906

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499334982845845505

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499335720217022465

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499334866571300866

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499341223986929667

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499342193537998848

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## dBSPL

Lavrov: We do not rule out that some others wanted Russia to get bogged down in this factitious conflict created by the West.

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## Xone

how and when will this war come to end?


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499337554402979846

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499342773283180545

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499342925951430657

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499343773389701126

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## RescueRanger

Who is old enough to remember the Muhajir camps in Peshawar in 1986, tell me how this fiasco ends any different.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499300409596329985

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## thetutle

patero said:


> Have to wonder what Kadyrov was promised for his support in this 'special military operation'? Knowing his barbaric attitude towards women, the pick of young Ukrainian woman as sex slaves for his harem perhaps?



thats ridiculous. Why would he be promised anything? He does as he is told and his soldiers are in the chain of command and if they refuse orders they get shot.


----------



## coffee_cup

Is it only me, or the hasty withdrawal of NATO from Afghanistan is making more sense now?

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499335217613524995
Scrapers are printing money.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499335217613524995
> Scrapers are printing money.


Omg this is a PR coup for the Ukranian's. Actually someone shared a clip with me on WhatsApp and that makes sense now why the Russians lost so much equipment in the first week of the conflict:









Russian launches 'war of the cities'


Defence analyst Michael Clarke says Russia is moving to 'Plan A', having begun their campaign aiming to minimise casualties.




news.sky.com

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## Bilal.

Anyone has the big picture of what’s going on. It’s mostly noise on this thread.

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## TheNoob

patero said:


> Have to wonder what Kadyrov was promised for his support in this 'special military operation'? Knowing his barbaric attitude towards women, the pick of young Ukrainian woman as sex slaves for his harem perhaps?



Oh man you're clearly not helping the growing sentiments against your double standards and racism. lmao



coffee_cup said:


> Is it only me, or the hasty withdrawal of NATO from Afghanistan is making more sense now?



How? 
They only had about 800 to 1200 soldiers at most lol

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## dBSPL

!!!

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498647668272373760

The number of refugees from Ukraine surpassed the 1 million threshold. 
Poland: 547,982 
Hungary: 133,009 
Moldova: 97,827 
Other EU nations: 88,147 
Slovakia: 79,059 
Romania: 51,261 
Russia: 47,800 
Belarus: 374

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## RescueRanger

Bilal. said:


> Anyone has the big picture of what’s going on. It’s mostly noise on this thread.


Professor Michael Clarke offers a good insight:








Russian launches 'war of the cities'


Defence analyst Michael Clarke says Russia is moving to 'Plan A', having begun their campaign aiming to minimise casualties.




news.sky.com







dBSPL said:


> !!!
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498647668272373760


The official figure from UNHCR is 1 Million and climbing - "1 million people in less than a week" this is why I am drawing parallels with Afghanistan in the 80's.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499326346522247168

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499331774329069571


----------



## Dragons

dBSPL said:


> !!!
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498647668272373760
> 
> The number of refugees from Ukraine surpassed the 1 million threshold.
> Poland: 547,982
> Hungary: 133,009
> Moldova: 97,827
> Other EU nations: 88,147
> Slovakia: 79,059
> Romania: 51,261
> Russia: 47,800
> Belarus: 374



The refugees figure will hit approx 3-5m in the coming weeks and at end goal would be around 12-15m since Ukraine has 40m and that is quite alot of people



RescueRanger said:


> Professor Michael Clarke offers a good insight:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian launches 'war of the cities'
> 
> 
> Defence analyst Michael Clarke says Russia is moving to 'Plan A', having begun their campaign aiming to minimise casualties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.sky.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The official figure from UNHCR is 1 Million and climbing - "1 million people in less than a week" this is why I am drawing parallels with Afghanistan in the 80's.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499326346522247168



The Russians gave the go ahead for people to leave Kyiv and other cities meaning the refugees crisis will rise. I am understanding that the Hungarys are unwilling to accept to many

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499350749645623296

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## arjunk

RescueRanger said:


> I think that image makes it look like they were operating in Pak airspace, they are not, why they have chosen not to use Pak airspace could be for any number of reasons, they did the same during Afghan Evac, via Doha to Afghanistan and vice versa.
> 
> View attachment 820255
> 
> 
> 
> Here is one from the Afghan Evac, as you will see they bypass Pakistan go via Iran:
> View attachment 820257



Why is Mumbai FIR giant


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Iñigo said:


> "Russians were denying reports of invading Ukraine until they did it"
> 
> Because the decision was taken at the last moment, until the last moment hope was held out for a possible dialogue; but seeing the blind fanaticism of the European rag dolls, then the last to be convinced within the Russian ruling class accepted the inevitable and took this grave, unpleasant and rational decision to on the one hand end with this counter-attack the war that started in 2014 and on the other hand avoid a much worse war in 5-10 years that could have atrocious consequences.



But it seems the progress of the Russian army has stalled now. What do you think?


----------



## dBSPL

@RescueRanger

(I hate this newspaper but let's face it they have a good sense of humor at times)

Reactions: Like Like:
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## beast89

Titanium100 said:


> More Russians captured
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497764210914172931


that's ukrainian men, it was debunked 3 or 4 days ago.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## srshkmr

beast89 said:


> that's ukrainian men, it was debunked 3 or 4 days ago.


Dont say that, someone will post a image containing Russian troops in Ukrainian uniform and then will claim they got caught


----------



## lamdacore

I wanted to reply here for several days but my personal affairs got in the way. Anyhow, much has happened since when I first wanted to write but still relevant as my understanding is with respect to Putin's strategy.

Right now, there is a massive disinformation campaign against Russia. I for one believe that Russia had to act at some point and this is quite understandable. Putin has been appealing to the US and the rest of Europe to not put him in this situation. Although the West emerged victorious from the cold war, it failed to disband Nato which was no longer needed. But sometimes politics loves to keep such organisation alive for one reason or the other.

With its core purpose dead i.e. to stand up to the Soviet Union, the West needed a reason to keep this going and it was not easy. How do you continue to fight when you are all alone and victorious? The US attempted to re-purpose its role in Afghanistan and we all know how that turned out. Twenty plus years and nothing to show for it. Despite the slogans the West throws, they are for internal consumption only and they are never sincere with them. The will do away with them when it best serves them. This naked hypocrisy is on full display and it is evident that it was pent up and building for this very moment.

Anyhow, Putin did try to befriend Europe and did open up Russia to the West. Credit should be given where it is due. But it was his bad luck or misery that the West just did not want to be Russia's friend. Instead, the West provoked, as they always do, despite Putin's appeal not to do so. Putin persisted and sought ways to resolve these things diplomatically. However, the West just never wanted to settle for a simple diplomatic solution, they were not done to continue stomping on the successor of the Soviet Union...a "I spit on your grave" angle.

So, the US and allies planned, they always wanted to hurt Russia and never wanted to be friends with it. They wanted to break up Russia further because, lets face it, it was still a formidable state with an arsenal that could hurt the US.

The West schemed and planned for this very day and encroached bit by bit trying so that Russia could take the bait. And Russia took it.

Now, you may think that this is an unfortunate situation for Russia but it is not. Having observed Putin, he is one of the world's most talented leaders and delivers when least expected. He planned just as the West did. What we see now is his plan in motion and it is easy to dismiss it as a failure based on the disinformation campaign.

Putin trialled the West response with the annexation of Crimea. This was the watershed moment for Russia. This was the time to call bluff on Nato and its allies. They made a lot of noise and failed. This was a warning to Ukraine to not challenge Russia any further. Since 2014 till 2022 i.e. eight years is what it took for Putin to exhaust all options with the West while preparing new options with the East.

Putin did not take the bait, he has made a calculated move against a move the West played years ago. To the West, Putin has taken the bait and is unleashing its strategy based on that. Unfortunately for the West, this is not the 80s or 90s anymore. The days are gone when the leader "of the free world" would instantaneously command all democracies to fall in line against USSR. Russia, has done well to open up and deal with several democracies, it has crept in and on them and addressed their interests. It has fractured that alliance which is now getting tested.

Russia has played its cards pretty well. It is the one of the largest producers of Oil and Gas. Its major market is Europe. It has integrated with the western system, a ploy to play by their rules to be accepted, to be let in. It knows that severe sanctions can and will be imposed upon it

Lets now see where Russia stands:

1) The war in Ukraine does not end the demand for oil & gas. The price per barrel has shot up and may well go higher. Can the West afford such high oil prices? The US may be delighted but it will not give charity.
2) Cutting Russia off Swift is a double edged sword. Yes, it will affect Russia's interest in Europe but what if this pushes Russia to adopt CIPS instead? This will be a profound change and will give Putin immense leverage and the stick to break Nato.

Now, imagine a scenario:

The West has cut Russia off completely, and thoroughly sanctioned. Russia, stops the flow of Oil & Gas and food production to the West. The price oil per barrel is now $130 and every oil producer is merry except Russia.

Then Russia announces it is selling oil at $80 per barrel via CIPS. What do you think will happen? Germany, Turkey and others will be keen to get their hands on this oil. But they are part of the Western bloc and staunch Nato members. They decide to find a way around the current sanctions and start trading.

Eventually, every Western country finds out and this brings about disunity in Nato's ranks. Clearly, it will be obvious that Russia is not the USSR but a country that is selling cheaper oil. Its all a matter of interests for the western countries at the end of the day. This will effectively shatter Nato.


This is just an example of what is to come. The time and era is gone for Nato. The western sanctions and dominance is near its end. This is going to hasten that. Putin has gambled and placed the bait and the west has happily taken it thinking they are outsmarting Putin. Time will tell who is the ultimate loser.

Emotions are high for the west and common sense is absent. Let the war go on for some more days and weeks, then it will no longer be headlines. Ukraine will slip into the background and the momentum in disinformation will be lost. When the effects of sanctions on Russia are felt back home, many Western countries will break rank and file. That is when Nato will be finished and Putin would have won.

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
1 | Like Like:
17


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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> @RescueRanger
> 
> (I hate this newspaper but let's face it they have a good sense of humor at times)


Lol 



lamdacore said:


> I wanted to reply here for several days but my personal affairs got in the way. Anyhow, much has happened since when I first wanted to write but still relevant as my understanding is with respect to Putin's strategy.
> 
> Right now, there is a massive disinformation campaign against Russia. I for one believe that Russia had to act at some point and this is quite understandable. Putin has been appealing to the US and the rest of Europe to not put him in this situation. Although the West emerged victorious from the cold war, it failed to disband Nato which was no longer needed. But sometimes politics loves to keep such organisation alive for one reason or the other.
> 
> With its core purpose dead i.e. to stand up to the Soviet Union, the West needed a reason to keep this going and it was not easy. How do you continue to fight when you are all alone and victorious? The US attempted to re-purpose its role in Afghanistan and we all know how that turned out. Twenty plus years and nothing to show for it. Despite the slogans the West throws, they are for internal consumption only and they are never sincere with them. The will do away with them when it best serves them. This naked hypocrisy is on full display and it is evident that it was pent up and building for this very moment.
> 
> Anyhow, Putin did try to befriend Europe and did open up Russia to the West. Credit should be given where it is due. But it was his bad luck or misery that the West just did not want to be Russia's friend. Instead, the West provoked, as they always do, despite Putin's appeal not to do so. Putin persisted and sought ways to resolve these things diplomatically. However, the West just never wanted to settle for a simple diplomatic solution, they were not done to continue stomping on the successor of the Soviet Union...a "I spit on your grave" angle.
> 
> So, the US and allies planned, they always wanted to hurt Russia and never wanted to be friends with it. They wanted to break up Russia further because, lets face it, it was still a formidable state with an arsenal that could hurt the US.
> 
> The West schemed and planned for this very day and encroached bit by bit trying so that Russia could take the bait. And Russia took it.
> 
> Now, you may think that this is an unfortunate situation for Russia but it is not. Having observed Putin, he is one of the world's most talented leaders and delivers when least expected. He planned just as the West did. What we see now is his plan in motion and it is easy to dismiss it as a failure based on the disinformation campaign.
> 
> Putin trialled the West response with the annexation of Crimea. This was the watershed moment for Russia. This was the time to call bluff on Nato and its allies. They made a lot of noise and failed. This was a warning to Ukraine to not challenge Russia any further. Since 2014 till 2022 i.e. eight years is what it took for Putin to exhaust all options with the West while preparing new options with the East.
> 
> Putin did not take the bait, he has made a calculated move against a move the West played years ago. To the West, Putin has taken the bait and is unleashing its strategy based on that. Unfortunately for the West, this is not the 80s or 90s anymore. The days are gone when the leader "of the free world" would instantaneously command all democracies to fall in line against USSR. Russia, has done well to open up and deal with several democracies, it has crept in and on them and addressed their interests. It has fractured that alliance which is now getting tested.
> 
> Russia has played its cards pretty well. It is the one of the largest producers of Oil and Gas. Its major market is Europe. It has integrated with the western system, a ploy to play by their rules to be accepted, to be let in. It knows that severe sanctions can and will be imposed upon it
> 
> Lets now see where Russia stands:
> 
> 1) The war in Ukraine does not end the demand for oil & gas. The price per barrel has shot up and may well go higher. Can the West afford such high oil prices? The US may be delighted but it will not give charity.
> 2) Cutting Russia off Swift is a double edged sword. Yes, it will affect Russia's interest in Europe but what if this pushes Russia to adopt CIPS instead? This will be a profound change and will give Putin immense leverage and the stick to break Nato.
> 
> Now, imagine a scenario:
> 
> The West has cut Russia off completely, and thoroughly sanctioned. Russia, stops the flow of Oil & Gas and food production to the West. The price oil per barrel is now $130 and every oil producer is merry except Russia.
> 
> Then Russia announces it is selling oil at $80 per barrel via CIPS. What do you think will happen? Germany, Turkey and others will be keen to get their hands on this oil. But they are part of the Western bloc and staunch Nato members. They decide to find a way around the current sanctions and start trading.
> 
> Eventually, every Western country finds out and this brings about disunity in Nato's ranks. Clearly, it will be obvious that Russia is not the USSR but a country that is selling cheaper oil. Its all a matter of interests for the western countries at the end of the day. This will effectively shatter Nato.
> 
> 
> This is just an example of what is to come. The time and era is gone for Nato. The western sanctions and dominance is near its end. This is going to hasten that. Putin has gambled and placed the bait and the west has happily taken it thinking they are outsmarting Putin. Time will tell who is the ultimate loser.
> 
> Emotions are high for the west and common sense is absent. Let the war go on for some more days and weeks, then it will no longer be headlines. Ukraine will slip into the background and the momentum in disinformation will be lost. When the effects of sanctions on Russia are felt back home, many Western countries will break rank and file. That is when Nato will be finished and Putin would have won.


Thank you for sharing your insight, much obliged.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Iñigo

"What do you think?"






A first phase has been concluded (in 6 days); Now if the negotiations fail, then I think a second phase will unfortunately begin

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RescueRanger

arjunk said:


> Why is Mumbai FIR giant


Good sport:

Sometimes, the airspace is further divided vertically into upper and lower regions. India has 4 FIRs - Delhi, Mumbai, Kolkata, and Chennai with a sub-region within the Kolkata FIR for Guwahati. Interestingly, Kolkata FIR also includes the air above Bhutan.

There is another division called ADIZ - Air Defence Identification Zone that is enclosed within an FIR and is more guarded by security. In an ADIZ Region, the identification, location, and control of civil aircraft is done by the country for national security. Only 20 countries in the world including India, China, Pakistan and Bangladesh have it.



Iñigo said:


> "What do you think?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A first phase has been concluded (in 6 days); Now if the negotiations fail, then I think a second phase will unfortunately begin


They are offering Putin an exit strategy because this thing is snowballing pretty fast, despite the optics on twitter.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

Titanium100 said:


> An invasion into Sweden will be extremely bad for Denmark as majority of Swedes would flee into our country and not Norway because they are not part of EU and don't have the free border movement meaning citizens from Sweden can just settle down in Denmark with their passports and vice versa and Russia pushing into Sweden will bring entire of Sweden onto us and we can't handle that many refugees influx and it would be a disaster. If we shout our borders which we would likely love to do in such scenario we would be kicked out of EU and NATO and reason we can't take so many is because we are a small country we can't take 7-8 million fleeing swedes the whole country would collapse from within..
> 
> I also have several family members there in Sweden meaning during an invasion our house will personally be filled with fleeing family members


EU citizens can all settle in Norway, there is no border and they have full settlement rights.


----------



## dBSPL

It seems Russians are using the cheap version of the industrial type electrical panels on the their state of art Kamov Ka-52s.







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499342086499360772

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## The Eagle

Watch till end and suggest a caption. I have no words at all. Indians yelling being clueless and that's not new.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499298691156705282

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499351931847954434

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499352900522463242

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499349053620039681

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499345395335454721

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> It seems Russians are using the cheap version of the industrial type electrical panels on the their state of art Kamov Ka-52s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499342086499360772


*Good spot, read this thread:*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499164245250002944
and this thread:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499185800172474371

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## Ali_Baba

Titanium100 said:


>




This is counterproductive and will not serve their interests - if Russian troops know that their surrender will not be accepted - they will dig and fight harder.

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## Iñigo

lamdacore said:


> I wanted to reply here for several days but my personal affairs got in the way. Anyhow, much has happened since when I first wanted to write but still relevant as my understanding is with respect to Putin's strategy.
> 
> Right now, there is a massive disinformation campaign against Russia. I for one believe that Russia had to act at some point and this is quite understandable. Putin has been appealing to the US and the rest of Europe to not put him in this situation. Although the West emerged victorious from the cold war, it failed to disband Nato which was no longer needed. But sometimes politics loves to keep such organisation alive for one reason or the other.
> 
> With its core purpose dead i.e. to stand up to the Soviet Union, the West needed a reason to keep this going and it was not easy. How do you continue to fight when you are all alone and victorious? The US attempted to re-purpose its role in Afghanistan and we all know how that turned out. Twenty plus years and nothing to show for it. Despite the slogans the West throws, they are for internal consumption only and they are never sincere with them. The will do away with them when it best serves them. This naked hypocrisy is on full display and it is evident that it was pent up and building for this very moment.
> 
> Anyhow, Putin did try to befriend Europe and did open up Russia to the West. Credit should be given where it is due. But it was his bad luck or misery that the West just did not want to be Russia's friend. Instead, the West provoked, as they always do, despite Putin's appeal not to do so. Putin persisted and sought ways to resolve these things diplomatically. However, the West just never wanted to settle for a simple diplomatic solution, they were not done to continue stomping on the successor of the Soviet Union...a "I spit on your grave" angle.
> 
> So, the US and allies planned, they always wanted to hurt Russia and never wanted to be friends with it. They wanted to break up Russia further because, lets face it, it was still a formidable state with an arsenal that could hurt the US.
> 
> The West schemed and planned for this very day and encroached bit by bit trying so that Russia could take the bait. And Russia took it.
> 
> Now, you may think that this is an unfortunate situation for Russia but it is not. Having observed Putin, he is one of the world's most talented leaders and delivers when least expected. He planned just as the West did. What we see now is his plan in motion and it is easy to dismiss it as a failure based on the disinformation campaign.
> 
> Putin trialled the West response with the annexation of Crimea. This was the watershed moment for Russia. This was the time to call bluff on Nato and its allies. They made a lot of noise and failed. This was a warning to Ukraine to not challenge Russia any further. Since 2014 till 2022 i.e. eight years is what it took for Putin to exhaust all options with the West while preparing new options with the East.
> 
> Putin did not take the bait, he has made a calculated move against a move the West played years ago. To the West, Putin has taken the bait and is unleashing its strategy based on that. Unfortunately for the West, this is not the 80s or 90s anymore. The days are gone when the leader "of the free world" would instantaneously command all democracies to fall in line against USSR. Russia, has done well to open up and deal with several democracies, it has crept in and on them and addressed their interests. It has fractured that alliance which is now getting tested.
> 
> Russia has played its cards pretty well. It is the one of the largest producers of Oil and Gas. Its major market is Europe. It has integrated with the western system, a ploy to play by their rules to be accepted, to be let in. It knows that severe sanctions can and will be imposed upon it
> 
> Lets now see where Russia stands:
> 
> 1) The war in Ukraine does not end the demand for oil & gas. The price per barrel has shot up and may well go higher. Can the West afford such high oil prices? The US may be delighted but it will not give charity.
> 2) Cutting Russia off Swift is a double edged sword. Yes, it will affect Russia's interest in Europe but what if this pushes Russia to adopt CIPS instead? This will be a profound change and will give Putin immense leverage and the stick to break Nato.
> 
> Now, imagine a scenario:
> 
> The West has cut Russia off completely, and thoroughly sanctioned. Russia, stops the flow of Oil & Gas and food production to the West. The price oil per barrel is now $130 and every oil producer is merry except Russia.
> 
> Then Russia announces it is selling oil at $80 per barrel via CIPS. What do you think will happen? Germany, Turkey and others will be keen to get their hands on this oil. But they are part of the Western bloc and staunch Nato members. They decide to find a way around the current sanctions and start trading.
> 
> Eventually, every Western country finds out and this brings about disunity in Nato's ranks. Clearly, it will be obvious that Russia is not the USSR but a country that is selling cheaper oil. Its all a matter of interests for the western countries at the end of the day. This will effectively shatter Nato.
> 
> 
> This is just an example of what is to come. The time and era is gone for Nato. The western sanctions and dominance is near its end. This is going to hasten that. Putin has gambled and placed the bait and the west has happily taken it thinking they are outsmarting Putin. Time will tell who is the ultimate loser.
> 
> Emotions are high for the west and common sense is absent. Let the war go on for some more days and weeks, then it will no longer be headlines. Ukraine will slip into the background and the momentum in disinformation will be lost. When the effects of sanctions on Russia are felt back home, many Western countries will break rank and file. That is when Nato will be finished and Putin would have won.



Magnificent text, what envy, I wish I knew how to write with such serenity


----------



## SIPRA

The Eagle said:


> Watch till end and suggest a caption. I have no words at all. Indians yelling being clueless and that's not new.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499298691156705282



This Rahul Shivshankar is an extremely ridiculous and arrogant person, and, additionally, a thoroughly, Hindutvadi scum, which is an icing on the cake.

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## thetutle

Iñigo said:


> Crimea
> 
> (1) Crimea is Russia before California, Texas and Nevada was USA.
> 
> (2) And now you argue that you are defending an internal administrative decision of the USSR
> 
> (3) You want to argue that the USSR is divisible because it is a man-made thing but Ukraine is indivisible because it is a "God-made" thing, although we all know that it is a conglomerate made by Lenin, Stalin and Khrushchev.


Crimea belongs to Muslim Tartars surely? it was theirs before Russia stole it.

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## Dragons

The Eagle said:


> Watch till end and suggest a caption. I have no words at all. Indians yelling being clueless and that's not new.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499298691156705282



Goddamn Indians are uncivilized... What kind of TV panel discussion is that

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## RescueRanger

Mariupol is the key city Russians are bent on taking, taking this key region will allow Russia to carve out a land corridor and link with Kherson. People are ignoring this very key location, this is where the real fight is going to matter for Russian designs.

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## LeGenD

How big is the gap between the forces of Ukraine and Russia?


With one of the largest and strongest armies in the world, Russian power dwarfs neighbouring Ukraine on every measure.




www.scmp.com


----------



## arjunk

RescueRanger said:


> *Good spot, read this thread:*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499164245250002944
> and this thread:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499185800172474371


Mr Muth is my favourite influencer

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## Dragons

RescueRanger said:


> Mariupol is the key city Russians are bent on taking, taking this key region will allow Russia to carve out a land corridor and link with Kherson. People are ignoring this very key location, this is where the real fight is going to matter for Russian designs.
> 
> View attachment 820395



Bro the map doesn't even show Mariupol but rather Poltava and Kharkiv which is central Ukraine while Mariupol is south

Do you even know Ukraine my mann?


----------



## dBSPL

RescueRanger said:


> *Good spot, read this thread:*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499164245250002944
> and this thread:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499185800172474371


I hope the Pakistan army not using the same tires.


----------



## The Eagle

Dragons said:


> What kind of TV panel discussion is that



To make Russia Ukraine war more worse, we only need Indian Media and kind of discussion.

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## TheNoob

dBSPL said:


> I hope the Pakistan army not using the same tires.



We may be and I find that tweet to be more hot air than anything.
I've googled and that's like the only "source" on the tires. 

And if they are using these cheap mass-produced knock-offs, why aren't we seeing more breakdowns?
surely there must be different results depending on the axle load per vehicle.

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## Dragons

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499361782007271425

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1 | Angry Angry:
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## Muhammed45

USA and Germany have sent 700+ stingers to Ukraine. A serious challenge to Russian Helicopters.

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## FuturePAF

An overlooked aspect of this war has been the economic fallout, due to the sanctions, on Central Asians countries. With the Ruble falling, the value of the remittances being sent home by laborers to Central Asia will be worth less. According to the world bank, Remittances make up the following % of GDP of these countries

12% of Uzbekistan’s GDP
28% of Kyrgyzstan’s GDP
30% of Tajikistan’s GDP

Looks like we really are going back to the 90s

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## White privilege

Saho said:


> lmao


He is playing the _long game....!!_

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## dBSPL

NASA announced that sanctions against Russia will not affect cooperation in space between the USA and Russia.

Roskosmos, on the other hand, announced that it has ended all cooperation with the USA and Germany, including the International Space Station. This is exactly what Rogozin said: "Now let them fly into space on their own broomsticks."


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499364858537693195

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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> WRONG.
> EU is *NOT* at war with Russia. All the major countries have categorically stated that.


I see some "Smarties" trying to score some "Brownie" points here, see what I did there?

I did* NOT *say EU is at war with Russia. If it does, it's WW3.

I said EU is "*EFFECTIVELY*" at war with Russia, kind of like US is "*EFFECTIVELY*" at war with Germany in 1940 when they announced "Lend-Lease" policy to help UK. You are not at war, but once you had done that, you are no longer "neutral" in a party. Which in political term is described as "Hostile" as much as US declare RT and CGTN "AGENT OF A FOREIGN POWER" Were US officially at war with China or Russia then?.

Either learn to read or learn some basic politic before you go all CAPS and claims other people were wrong.

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## RescueRanger

Current situation in Mariopol and the Sea of Azov: Fighting in Vinogradnoye, shelling of civilians in Sartan and a humanitarian catastrophe in Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499324400570667009
Vynohradne: Population 1,419

Sartana: Population 10, 177.

*Please excuse my poor cartography skills: *Red is Russian Controlled territory, the white line is the movement of troops reinforcing Vynohradne and Mariupol. Capture of Mariupol will finally give Russia the land corridor it needs in the sea of Azov.







dBSPL said:


> I hope the Pakistan army not using the same tires.


Hahaha, I think people in the GHQ will be making some calls.

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## ADIL SHERDIL

A serious lack of reliable facts related to current situation. If we watch BBC then its allover for Putin, if one scroll through other social media platforms then videos of destroyed tanks are shown. tweets these days provide much more knowledge than the news.
Europeans and US are sending in the arms but will they be enough to stop Russians. A long war will be very dangerous for the people of Ukraine. Russians will only lose their soldiers but Ukrainian civilian population has to pay the price. Question is is it worth it?

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## Dragons

These Azov element are Nefarious elements. The areas they hold are Russian majority hence they are destroying the villages themselves before the Russians even reach there... What a wicked game.. The Azov are simply nuts..


*DNR. Natalya and her children were evacuated from Volnovakha. Natalia says: -Nationalists began shelling the village even before the approaches of the DPR units. Their task was to destroy as many houses as possible, as they understand that they cannot hold the city.*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499346421165740039

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499361168590258178

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## RescueRanger

Dragons said:


> Bro the map doesn't even show Mariupol but rather Poltava and Kharkiv which is central Ukraine while Mariupol is south
> 
> Do you even know Ukraine my mann?


I'm sorry for that oversight, the map is the one being shared in a whatsapp group I am in. I have posted a corrected map, and whilst I don't KNOW Ukraine. Not MANY of us here do, we are mere spectators on the internet.

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## SIPRA

ADIL SHERDIL said:


> A serious lack of reliable facts related to current situation. If we watch BBC then its allover for Putin, if one scroll through other social media platforms then videos of destroyed tanks are shown. tweets these days provide much more knowledge than the news.
> Europeans and US are sending in the arms but will they be enough to stop Russians. A long war will be very dangerous for the people of Ukraine. Russians will only lose their soldiers but Ukrainian civilian population has to pay the price. Question is is it worth it?



Propaganda and misinformation are essential ingredients of modern wars. No escape.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499359471684001794


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## RescueRanger

Dragons said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499361782007271425


This is what happens when you give people with historic grievance guns!

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## Dragons

RescueRanger said:


> This is what happens when you give people with historic grievance guns!



The Ukrofascists are probably the most craziest element in this conflict.. This guys are ISIS-tier...

They are dedicated to a fault and would pillage and kill anything against their view point or standing in their path

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## RescueRanger

Dragons said:


> The Ukrofascists are probably the most craziest element in this conflict.. This guys are ISIS-tier


Yes, 100% agreed, this will snowball in the coming weeks and months, like it or not, this is already a protracted war and will have long lasting consequences that will prove to be a destabilizing factor in the region.

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## ADIL SHERDIL

SIPRA said:


> Propaganda and misinformation are essential ingredients of modern wars. No escape.


Exactly both side looks like each other, uses almost same equipment. If you look at the tweets of material lost or looted a red mark will determine if its Russian or not? Propaganda has always played a vital role in wars , nothing new here.But i at least expected one neutral source of information but ALAS their isn't one.

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## Hamartia Antidote

coffee_cup said:


> Next time if anyone from UK/US gives me a lecture about "freedom of speech", I am gonna give them piece of my mind.



Why? Nothing banned over here. 
https://www.rt.com/ works fine.


----------



## RescueRanger

Ukraine to push for 'humanitarian corridors' at Russia talks — live updates​Representatives of Ukraine and Russia are due to meet for ceasefire talks as an incursion into Kyiv looms. Meanwhile, the ICC has opened a war crimes inquiry. DW has the latest.









Ukraine's Zelenskyy asks Putin for direct talks – DW – 03/03/2022


Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said in a message to Putin: "I don't bite. What are you afraid of?" Meanwhile, the US and UK have unveiled new sanctions on Russian oligarchs. DW has the latest.




www.dw.com







ADIL SHERDIL said:


> Exactly both side looks like each other, uses almost same equipment. If you look at the tweets of material lost or looted a red mark will determine if its Russian or not? Propaganda has always played a vital role in wars , nothing new here.But i at least expected one neutral source of information but ALAS their isn't one.


There is no neutral source in this conflict. See something, assume nothing and check everything.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499306252001808390

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## Muhammed45

France to send 4 Rafale fighters plus 2 fuel tankers to Poland.

Germany sends 2,700 of its Reserved Strela MANPADs to Ukraine along with an unknown number of Pantherfast anti armor ammunitions.

Estonia sends unknown number of FGM-148 anti armor to Ukraine.

USA will Upgrade 141 Taiwanese F-16 to V standard including a phased array radar. They have sent new V versions F-16 to Taiwan airforce. (note the coincidence)

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## SIPRA

RescueRanger said:


> Yes, 100% agreed, this will snowball in the coming weeks and months, like it or not, this is already a protracted war and will have long lasting consequences that will prove to be a destabilizing factor in the region.



Perhaps, in whole of the world, it seems, if I am not grossly mistaken.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## RescueRanger

The UK Department for Transport said on Wednesday that oil and gas from Russia could still be imported into Britain despite Russian ships being banned from entering British ports.









Russia can still send oil and gas to Britain despite port ban


Russia can still send oil and gas to Britain despite a ban on the country's ships visiting British ports, the Department for Transport (DfT) said on Wednesday.




www.reuters.com





Lol...

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## Dragons

RescueRanger said:


> Yes, 100% agreed, this will snowball in the coming weeks and months, like it or not, this is already a protracted war and will have long lasting consequences that will prove to be a destabilizing factor in the region.



I agree

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## RescueRanger

SIPRA said:


> Perhaps, in whole of the world, it seems, if I am not grossly mistaken.


 'Among the calamities of war may be jointly numbered the diminution of the love of truth, by the falsehoods which interest dictates and credulity encourages.' (from The Idler, 1758) - Samuel Johnson



Muhammed45 said:


> #France to send 4 Rafale fighters plus 2 fuel tankers to Poland.
> 
> #Germany sends 2,700 of its Reserved Strela MANPADs to Ukraine along with an unknown number of Pantherfast anti armor ammunitions.
> 
> #Estonia sends unknown number of FGM-148 anti armor to Ukraine.
> 
> #USA will Upgrade 141 Taiwanese F-16 to V standard including a phased array radar. They have sent new V versions F-16 to Taiwan airforce. (note the coincidence)



This is because Poland is jittery that should Kyiv fall, Lviv is next and Lviv borders Poland.

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## SIPRA

ADIL SHERDIL said:


> Exactly both side looks like each other, uses almost same equipment. If you look at the tweets of material lost or looted a red mark will determine if its Russian or not? Propaganda has always played a vital role in wars , nothing new here.But i at least expected one neutral source of information but ALAS their isn't one.



Only LGBT seems to be neutral.

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## White privilege

RescueRanger said:


> The UK Department for Transport said on Wednesday that oil and gas from Russia could still be imported into Britain despite Russian ships being banned from entering British ports.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia can still send oil and gas to Britain despite port ban
> 
> 
> Russia can still send oil and gas to Britain despite a ban on the country's ships visiting British ports, the Department for Transport (DfT) said on Wednesday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol...


Yeah send it via satellite...British _going Dutch _!!! 😁🤣


----------



## NotSure

More horrible videos of ukr nazis executing fleeing people in masses in Mariupol. A whole group of cars was shot up.

This war crimes need to be made a UNSC topic.

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## Ali_Baba

Top Russian General KILLED 'in special operation'​









Putin blow as Belarus morale 'extremely low'


VLADIMIR Putin faced a severe blow on Thursday after Belarusian soldiers said they "do not want to play the role of Russian mercenaries" and that their morale is "extremely low."




www.express.co.uk





"*A comrade of the General announced vis social media that Major General Andrei Sukhovetsky, Deputy Commander of the 41st Combined Arms Army of the Russian Ground Forces had been killed. Sergey Chipilev wrote: "With great pain, we learned the tragic news of the death of our friend, Major General Andrey Sukhovetsky, on the territory of Ukraine during the special operation. We express our deepest condolences to his family."*


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499266194901282817


----------



## Dragons

Muhammed45 said:


> #USA will Upgrade 141 Taiwanese F-16 to V standard including a phased array radar. They have sent new V versions F-16 to Taiwan airforce. (note the coincidence)



@Beast @8888888888888


----------



## SIPRA

RescueRanger said:


> This is because Poland is jittery that should Kyiv fall, Lviv is next and Lviv borders Poland.



Things are not proving to be very encouraging for Russia even. So, I believe that Russia will not go for Western Ukraine, as it seems. It will mostly concentrate on Eastern part.

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## Beast

Dragons said:


> @Beast @8888888888888


LOL.. Isnt the one that crashed recently? Why shall China worry about it? No matter how is upgrade, it is still an old airframe which is prone to crashed or non optimum use due to not able to pull 9G.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499069611215519748


----------



## Corax

lamdacore said:


> I wanted to reply here for several days but my personal affairs got in the way. Anyhow, much has happened since when I first wanted to write but still relevant as my understanding is with respect to Putin's strategy.
> 
> Right now, there is a massive disinformation campaign against Russia. I for one believe that Russia had to act at some point and this is quite understandable. Putin has been appealing to the US and the rest of Europe to not put him in this situation. Although the West emerged victorious from the cold war, it failed to disband Nato which was no longer needed. But sometimes politics loves to keep such organisation alive for one reason or the other.
> 
> With its core purpose dead i.e. to stand up to the Soviet Union, the West needed a reason to keep this going and it was not easy. How do you continue to fight when you are all alone and victorious? The US attempted to re-purpose its role in Afghanistan and we all know how that turned out. Twenty plus years and nothing to show for it. Despite the slogans the West throws, they are for internal consumption only and they are never sincere with them. The will do away with them when it best serves them. This naked hypocrisy is on full display and it is evident that it was pent up and building for this very moment.
> 
> Anyhow, Putin did try to befriend Europe and did open up Russia to the West. Credit should be given where it is due. But it was his bad luck or misery that the West just did not want to be Russia's friend. Instead, the West provoked, as they always do, despite Putin's appeal not to do so. Putin persisted and sought ways to resolve these things diplomatically. However, the West just never wanted to settle for a simple diplomatic solution, they were not done to continue stomping on the successor of the Soviet Union...a "I spit on your grave" angle.
> 
> So, the US and allies planned, they always wanted to hurt Russia and never wanted to be friends with it. They wanted to break up Russia further because, lets face it, it was still a formidable state with an arsenal that could hurt the US.
> 
> The West schemed and planned for this very day and encroached bit by bit trying so that Russia could take the bait. And Russia took it.
> 
> Now, you may think that this is an unfortunate situation for Russia but it is not. Having observed Putin, he is one of the world's most talented leaders and delivers when least expected. He planned just as the West did. What we see now is his plan in motion and it is easy to dismiss it as a failure based on the disinformation campaign.
> 
> Putin trialled the West response with the annexation of Crimea. This was the watershed moment for Russia. This was the time to call bluff on Nato and its allies. They made a lot of noise and failed. This was a warning to Ukraine to not challenge Russia any further. Since 2014 till 2022 i.e. eight years is what it took for Putin to exhaust all options with the West while preparing new options with the East.
> 
> Putin did not take the bait, he has made a calculated move against a move the West played years ago. To the West, Putin has taken the bait and is unleashing its strategy based on that. Unfortunately for the West, this is not the 80s or 90s anymore. The days are gone when the leader "of the free world" would instantaneously command all democracies to fall in line against USSR. Russia, has done well to open up and deal with several democracies, it has crept in and on them and addressed their interests. It has fractured that alliance which is now getting tested.
> 
> Russia has played its cards pretty well. It is the one of the largest producers of Oil and Gas. Its major market is Europe. It has integrated with the western system, a ploy to play by their rules to be accepted, to be let in. It knows that severe sanctions can and will be imposed upon it
> 
> Lets now see where Russia stands:
> 
> 1) The war in Ukraine does not end the demand for oil & gas. The price per barrel has shot up and may well go higher. Can the West afford such high oil prices? The US may be delighted but it will not give charity.
> 2) Cutting Russia off Swift is a double edged sword. Yes, it will affect Russia's interest in Europe but what if this pushes Russia to adopt CIPS instead? This will be a profound change and will give Putin immense leverage and the stick to break Nato.
> 
> Now, imagine a scenario:
> 
> The West has cut Russia off completely, and thoroughly sanctioned. Russia, stops the flow of Oil & Gas and food production to the West. The price oil per barrel is now $130 and every oil producer is merry except Russia.
> 
> Then Russia announces it is selling oil at $80 per barrel via CIPS. What do you think will happen? Germany, Turkey and others will be keen to get their hands on this oil. But they are part of the Western bloc and staunch Nato members. They decide to find a way around the current sanctions and start trading.
> 
> Eventually, every Western country finds out and this brings about disunity in Nato's ranks. Clearly, it will be obvious that Russia is not the USSR but a country that is selling cheaper oil. Its all a matter of interests for the western countries at the end of the day. This will effectively shatter Nato.
> 
> 
> This is just an example of what is to come. The time and era is gone for Nato. The western sanctions and dominance is near its end. This is going to hasten that. Putin has gambled and placed the bait and the west has happily taken it thinking they are outsmarting Putin. Time will tell who is the ultimate loser.
> 
> Emotions are high for the west and common sense is absent. Let the war go on for some more days and weeks, then it will no longer be headlines. Ukraine will slip into the background and the momentum in disinformation will be lost. When the effects of sanctions on Russia are felt back home, many Western countries will break rank and file. That is when Nato will be finished and Putin would have won.



I agree with a lot of your thoughts, there was no reason to keep NATO after the end of the Cold War, and should have been disbanded, much like the Warsaw Pact was. It has been used by the US to keep its grip on European policy, especially towards Russia. However, hasn't Putin played into the US trap here? He's doing the very thing that the US wants, and to justify having NATO in the first place. Won't this only strengthen NATO, not weaken it? The US has been asking European NATO members to increase their defence spending, and this is exactly what Germany has done, and probably more to follow. Moreover, it has also turned Europe against Russian influence in the region. As much as the sanctions will hurt both Russia and Europe, and given the decarbonisation trend anyway, this has only accelerated Europe's attempts to abandon fissile fuels anyway, and move to alternative sources and energy. Russia hasn't done much in that regard, and will probably hurt it more if there is a complete ban on Russian oil and gas. In addition, Europe could source their supplies from the US and Middle East instead.

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## Dragons

Beast said:


> LOL.. Isnt the one that crashed recently? Why shall China worry about it? No matter how is upgrade, it is still an old airframe which is prone to crashed or non optimum use due to not able to pull 9G.



They have long range BVR which means they could by default contest the air superiority


----------



## ADIL SHERDIL

Muhammed45 said:


> France to send 4 Rafale fighters plus 2 fuel tankers to Poland.
> 
> Germany sends 2,700 of its Reserved Strela MANPADs to Ukraine along with an unknown number of Pantherfast anti armor ammunitions.
> 
> Estonia sends unknown number of FGM-148 anti armor to Ukraine.
> 
> USA will Upgrade 141 Taiwanese F-16 to V standard including a phased array radar. They have sent new V versions F-16 to Taiwan airforce. (note the coincidence)


i can understand what the rest are doing but US has its own agenda. If you can destroy one country try your best so that others can destroy them. What has US to gain from this sale. 


SIPRA said:


> Only LGBT seems to be neutral.


lol, you got that right on.


RescueRanger said:


> The UK Department for Transport said on Wednesday that oil and gas from Russia could still be imported into Britain despite Russian ships being banned from entering British ports.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia can still send oil and gas to Britain despite port ban
> 
> 
> Russia can still send oil and gas to Britain despite a ban on the country's ships visiting British ports, the Department for Transport (DfT) said on Wednesday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol...


Just look at the hypocrisy of the Brits, They were the loudest before the war but now they are no where to be found.

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## Primus

Ali_Baba said:


> Top Russian General KILLED 'in special operation'​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin blow as Belarus morale 'extremely low'
> 
> 
> VLADIMIR Putin faced a severe blow on Thursday after Belarusian soldiers said they "do not want to play the role of Russian mercenaries" and that their morale is "extremely low."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.express.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "*A comrade of the General announced vis social media that Major General Andrei Sukhovetsky, Deputy Commander of the 41st Combined Arms Army of the Russian Ground Forces had been killed. Sergey Chipilev wrote: "With great pain, we learned the tragic news of the death of our friend, Major General Andrey Sukhovetsky, on the territory of Ukraine during the special operation. We express our deepest condolences to his family."*


How reliable/true is this?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499037866780811267

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499368007147139072


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## 8888888888888

Dragons said:


> @Beast @8888888888888


 more Chinese sanctions to Lockheed and those responsible.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499037821809483785

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## LeGenD

lamdacore said:


> I wanted to reply here for several days but my personal affairs got in the way. Anyhow, much has happened since when I first wanted to write but still relevant as my understanding is with respect to Putin's strategy.
> 
> Right now, there is a massive disinformation campaign against Russia. I for one believe that Russia had to act at some point and this is quite understandable. Putin has been appealing to the US and the rest of Europe to not put him in this situation. Although the West emerged victorious from the cold war, it failed to disband Nato which was no longer needed. But sometimes politics loves to keep such organisation alive for one reason or the other.
> 
> With its core purpose dead i.e. to stand up to the Soviet Union, the West needed a reason to keep this going and it was not easy. How do you continue to fight when you are all alone and victorious? The US attempted to re-purpose its role in Afghanistan and we all know how that turned out. Twenty plus years and nothing to show for it. Despite the slogans the West throws, they are for internal consumption only and they are never sincere with them. The will do away with them when it best serves them. This naked hypocrisy is on full display and it is evident that it was pent up and building for this very moment.
> 
> Anyhow, Putin did try to befriend Europe and did open up Russia to the West. Credit should be given where it is due. But it was his bad luck or misery that the West just did not want to be Russia's friend. Instead, the West provoked, as they always do, despite Putin's appeal not to do so. Putin persisted and sought ways to resolve these things diplomatically. However, the West just never wanted to settle for a simple diplomatic solution, they were not done to continue stomping on the successor of the Soviet Union...a "I spit on your grave" angle.
> 
> So, the US and allies planned, they always wanted to hurt Russia and never wanted to be friends with it. They wanted to break up Russia further because, lets face it, it was still a formidable state with an arsenal that could hurt the US.
> 
> The West schemed and planned for this very day and encroached bit by bit trying so that Russia could take the bait. And Russia took it.
> 
> Now, you may think that this is an unfortunate situation for Russia but it is not. Having observed Putin, he is one of the world's most talented leaders and delivers when least expected. He planned just as the West did. What we see now is his plan in motion and it is easy to dismiss it as a failure based on the disinformation campaign.
> 
> Putin trialled the West response with the annexation of Crimea. This was the watershed moment for Russia. This was the time to call bluff on Nato and its allies. They made a lot of noise and failed. This was a warning to Ukraine to not challenge Russia any further. Since 2014 till 2022 i.e. eight years is what it took for Putin to exhaust all options with the West while preparing new options with the East.
> 
> Putin did not take the bait, he has made a calculated move against a move the West played years ago. To the West, Putin has taken the bait and is unleashing its strategy based on that. Unfortunately for the West, this is not the 80s or 90s anymore. The days are gone when the leader "of the free world" would instantaneously command all democracies to fall in line against USSR. Russia, has done well to open up and deal with several democracies, it has crept in and on them and addressed their interests. It has fractured that alliance which is now getting tested.
> 
> Russia has played its cards pretty well. It is the one of the largest producers of Oil and Gas. Its major market is Europe. It has integrated with the western system, a ploy to play by their rules to be accepted, to be let in. It knows that severe sanctions can and will be imposed upon it
> 
> Lets now see where Russia stands:
> 
> 1) The war in Ukraine does not end the demand for oil & gas. The price per barrel has shot up and may well go higher. Can the West afford such high oil prices? The US may be delighted but it will not give charity.
> 2) Cutting Russia off Swift is a double edged sword. Yes, it will affect Russia's interest in Europe but what if this pushes Russia to adopt CIPS instead? This will be a profound change and will give Putin immense leverage and the stick to break Nato.
> 
> Now, imagine a scenario:
> 
> The West has cut Russia off completely, and thoroughly sanctioned. Russia, stops the flow of Oil & Gas and food production to the West. The price oil per barrel is now $130 and every oil producer is merry except Russia.
> 
> Then Russia announces it is selling oil at $80 per barrel via CIPS. What do you think will happen? Germany, Turkey and others will be keen to get their hands on this oil. But they are part of the Western bloc and staunch Nato members. They decide to find a way around the current sanctions and start trading.
> 
> Eventually, every Western country finds out and this brings about disunity in Nato's ranks. Clearly, it will be obvious that Russia is not the USSR but a country that is selling cheaper oil. Its all a matter of interests for the western countries at the end of the day. This will effectively shatter Nato.
> 
> 
> This is just an example of what is to come. The time and era is gone for Nato. The western sanctions and dominance is near its end. This is going to hasten that. Putin has gambled and placed the bait and the west has happily taken it thinking they are outsmarting Putin. Time will tell who is the ultimate loser.
> 
> Emotions are high for the west and common sense is absent. Let the war go on for some more days and weeks, then it will no longer be headlines. Ukraine will slip into the background and the momentum in disinformation will be lost. When the effects of sanctions on Russia are felt back home, many Western countries will break rank and file. That is when Nato will be finished and Putin would have won.


You are very optimistic about Russian options and leverage. 

Vladimir Putin was doing well until he decided to invade Ukraine. Have a look at my take on this matter:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Does someone know where Mexico stands on this conflict? Has Mexico put sanctions on Russia as well?



defence.pk





Putin have managed to rejuvenate NATO instead; more countries are willing to join NATO now:



Kosovo parliament urges government to start NATO membership bid











Neutral Finland, Sweden Warm To Idea Of NATO Membership


Through the Cold War and the decades since, nothing could persuade Finns and Swedes that they would be better off joining NATO — until Russia's invasion of Ukraine.




www.huffpost.com










Russian economy took a hit from the sanctions imposed on it by USA in 2014 - dropped from 5th spot to 11th spot in the (2014 - 2021) period. This was the situation when much of Europe was supporting Russia all along.

But things are changing now - and fast.

You mentioned CIPS but is it good enough to rescue Russian economy by itself? It will be a lifeline at most. Fairly good explanation in following article:









‘No desire to pay’: China’s manufacturers feel the pain of Ukraine crisis


China is the largest trading partner of both Russia and Ukraine, but sanctions from the US and its European allies have started to be felt by customers in both countries.




www.scmp.com





And this:

_“Both the US and UK financial sanctions against Russia will lead to an increase in the volume of yuan transactions in terms of Russian-Chinese trade. This may be one reason for the strong yuan, but a strong yuan is bad news for China’s export sector,” Zheng said._

More:



Russia can’t use cryptos on a broad scale to evade sanctions: Experts



Europe is in search for alternative to Russian gas in Africa:



https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/europe-could-reduce-imports-of-russian-gas-by-more-than-a-third-in-a-year-iea-0











AZA Finance FX Week Ahead: Russia trade war puts African gas in focus


As Vladimir Putin’s war in Ukraine continues to intensify and Western sanctions on Russia mount, so the likelihood increases of Moscow retaliating by shutting off its gas supply to European markets.




thebftonline.com







https://www.ippmedia.com/en/features/europe-can-look-africa%C2%A0-preferred-gas-supplier



LNG also stepping up its game:









Energy group safeguarding Europe’s LNG supply


An association of 84 companies involve in global liquefied natural gas (LNG) trade is working to ensure that a stable supply of LNG remains available as the Russia-Ukraine conflict continues to escalate.




www.gasworld.com





Let us not delude ourselves - some of the greatest minds are in the Western hemisphere.

The rules of game will change for all involved. China will also have to come to terms with appreciation in Yuan in coming years. There are trade-offs.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499287417576112128


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## LeGenD

Beast said:


> LOL.. Isnt the one that crashed recently? Why shall China worry about it? No matter how is upgrade, it is still an old airframe which is prone to crashed or non optimum use due to not able to pull 9G.


Airframes can be fixed and life extended.

USAF is revisiting much of its F-16 fleet as well.









608 U.S. Air Force F-16s Are Getting The Type's Largest Combined Upgrade Package Ever


The project will add a new advanced radar, communications suite, and electronic warfare system to the best of the Air Force's fleet of aging Vipers.




www.thedrive.com


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## Zibago

8888888888888 said:


> Russians are going to encircle Kiev and then they will batter the city into submission like what they did in Syria.


Exactly
People dont understand Russian mentality its still the old red army doctrine

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499306252001808390



So on this end, the Russians are making progress.

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## Beast

LeGenD said:


> Airframes can be fixed and life extended.
> 
> USAF is revisiting much of its F-16 fleet as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 608 U.S. Air Force F-16s Are Getting The Type's Largest Combined Upgrade Package Ever
> 
> 
> The project will add a new advanced radar, communications suite, and electronic warfare system to the best of the Air Force's fleet of aging Vipers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com


No necessary true. There is a limit and there are many times, user are warn not to pull 9G for old upgraded airframe.

In war, can you tell your enemy, not to pull 9G to chase your tail?


----------



## OldTwilight

Muhammed45 said:


> France to send 4 Rafale fighters plus 2 fuel tankers to Poland.
> 
> Germany sends 2,700 of its Reserved Strela MANPADs to Ukraine along with an unknown number of Pantherfast anti armor ammunitions.
> 
> Estonia sends unknown number of FGM-148 anti armor to Ukraine.
> 
> USA will Upgrade 141 Taiwanese F-16 to V standard including a phased array radar. They have sent new V versions F-16 to Taiwan airforce. (note the coincidence)



well , they fear China does same thing to Taiwan ...

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## Dragons

Massive explosion in Kharkiv

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499377282112233475


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## NotSure

A in Volnovakha captured ukr soldier says in an audiomesssage, that his 24th brigade literally does not exist anymore, they lost the contact to the ukr military leadership and have no commands.

https://****/boris_rozhin/26902

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## Meengla

Darius77 said:


> It also shows that over 80% of the world's population supports Russia. Iran and Iraq along with 35 countries also abstained.



I am surprised that many countries abstained in the UNGA vote. When it comes to voting against Israeli actions in Palestine, I have seen 180+ countries vote against Israel--even most European countries do that. But, we know, UNGA is meaningless. As is UNSC becoming meaningless. Russian invasion is patently illegal just as was American invasion of Iraq in 2003.
Might is Right. And power does flow from the barrel of a gun, to quote Mao.

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## dBSPL

Ukraine war in a nutshell

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## Zibago




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## Dragons

This city is under Russian control for 3 days now


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499380339860455428


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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499084856566947844


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499376463719669768


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## HttpError

The Eagle said:


> Watch till end and suggest a caption. I have no words at all. Indians yelling being clueless and that's not new.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499298691156705282



WTF, after watching the complete movie we find out the name of the hero was mixed with the villian? lol

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## Vergennes

And the slaughter continues


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499378438343303168


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## dBSPL

An Estonian cargo ship sank after colliding with a mine off Odessa.

The Russian navy also opened fire on a Bangladesh flagged ship.

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## Zibago

RescueRanger said:


> Who is old enough to remember the Muhajir camps in Peshawar in 1986, tell me how this fiasco ends any different.


White Jihad Inshallah

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## The Eagle

HttpError said:


> WTF, after watching the complete movie we find out the name of the hero was mixed with the villian? lol



Imagine, how risky these guys are for international politics and war.

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## LeGenD

Russian military movement towards Kyiv is stalled for now.

But another wave of Russian troops is coming - from the sea this time.

Russian Amphibious Assault Ship Armada Seen Off Crimea As Fears Of Odessa Beach Landing Grow​
The Kremlin's invasion of Ukraine has now into its eighth day. The Russian military continues to face stiff resistance from Ukrainian forces units, as well as protests and civil disobedience from average civilians, but it has also made some gains. While its massive convoy north of Kyiv is stalled, it looks like a beach landing in the southern seaside city of Odessa may be imminent. Before getting into the latest news below, you can first get up to speed on previous developments in the conflict in our earlier rolling coverage here.









Russian Amphibious Assault Ship Armada Seen Off Crimea As Fears Of Odessa Beach Landing Grow


While the huge Russian column north of Kyiv has stalled, a major assault on the Black Sea port city of Odessa might soon begin.




www.thedrive.com





Dang - Ukraine has become a stress-test for Russia lately. Russia now feels the need to throw whatever it can into Ukraine.

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## Flight of falcon

Looks like social media has given Ukraine a free hand in posting their propaganda and fake videos. 

I have noticed Twitter , Instagram and Facebook pages actively shut down if they even mention Ukraine side losses. 

I have lived through both gulf wars and other conflicts since then but the one sided and biased coverage this week sometimes made me mad but often made me laugh. The desperation and lack of objectivity and neutrality is unparalleled in our history. 

Yesterday on CNN they spent few minutes talking about some heating pipeline that was blown up!!!!

I mean same CNN that showed us shock and awe campaign in Iraq was focusing on Russians blowing up heating pipes …..

You gotta give credit to the West for their nauseating hypocrisy ….

On the side note did someone notice our boy in Ukraine ?









’کیئو کا ارب پتی شہزادہ‘: پاکستانی لڑکا جو یوکرین کا ’سٹیل کنگ‘ بنا - BBC News اردو


پاکستان سے بطور طالب علم سنہ 1974 میں سکالرشپ پر ڈونیسک جانے والے محمد ظہور نے یوکرین کو اپنا گھر بنایا، سٹیل کے کاروبار میں نام کمایا اور ارب پتی بن گئے۔ یوکرین پر حملے سے چند دن قبل وہ اپنی جڑواں بیٹیوں کے ہمراہ کیئو سے لندن پہنچے ہیں۔




www.bbc.com

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## Dragons

dBSPL said:


> An Estonian cargo ship sank after colliding with a mine off Odessa.
> 
> The Russian navy also opened fire on a Bangladesh flagged ship.



Not to forget two downed aircrafts one helicopter and MIG belonging to Romania... 

Russia is on hyper-alert and the reason the MIG was taken out is because the Ukrainians used it to a great success hence it was mistaken for Ukrainian and the Helicopter was also showdown due to being mistaken for Ukrainian


----------



## Clutch

Aesterix said:


> Here in UK all Russian Media websites , Youtube channels and Cable TV channels have been taken down. RT.com is blocked.
> Whatever happened of press freedom and freedom of opinion?



It's only freedom of speech that they think should be free. The rest is banned. This war has exposed Western hypocrisy for those who can see.

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## RealNapster

RescueRanger said:


> Who is old enough to remember the Muhajir camps in Peshawar in 1986, tell me how this fiasco ends any different.



You don't have to be that much old to remember that. Those camps were there even around 2007-10.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499357330005274625

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## RescueRanger

RealNapster said:


> You don't have to be that much old to remember that. Those camps were there even around 2007-10.


You don’t know what it was like in 1986 with women and children in their droves suffering from dissentry.

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## dBSPL

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499376463719669768


Very nice Greek weapon

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499358452510085125

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## LeGenD

Flight of falcon said:


> Looks like social media has given Ukraine a free hand in posting their propaganda and fake videos.
> 
> I have noticed Twitter , Instagram and Facebook pages actively shut down if they even mention Ukraine side losses.
> 
> I have lived through both gulf wars and other conflicts since then but the one sided and biased coverage this week sometimes made me mad but often made me laugh. The desperation and lack of objectivity and neutrality is unparalleled in our history.
> 
> Yesterday on CNN they spent few minutes talking about some heating pipeline that was blown up!!!!
> 
> I mean same CNN that showed us shock and awe campaign in Iraq was focusing on Russians blowing up heating pipes …..
> 
> You gotta give credit to the West for their nauseating hypocrisy ….
> 
> On the side note did someone notice our boy in Ukraine ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ’کیئو کا ارب پتی شہزادہ‘: پاکستانی لڑکا جو یوکرین کا ’سٹیل کنگ‘ بنا - BBC News اردو
> 
> 
> پاکستان سے بطور طالب علم سنہ 1974 میں سکالرشپ پر ڈونیسک جانے والے محمد ظہور نے یوکرین کو اپنا گھر بنایا، سٹیل کے کاروبار میں نام کمایا اور ارب پتی بن گئے۔ یوکرین پر حملے سے چند دن قبل وہ اپنی جڑواں بیٹیوں کے ہمراہ کیئو سے لندن پہنچے ہیں۔
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com


All those who are involved in this conflict in any capacity, are into misdirection, disinformation and propaganda in some way, shape or form. This is hardly news.

Fake news notwithstanding, credible sources have hinted that Russia has indeed suffered noticeable losses by now.

Russia has lost hundreds of tanks and armored vehicles and Russian casualties are now in triple digits. Russia have lost some fixed-wing aircraft as well. Details are slowly but surely surfacing. There is good amount of information in this thread as well.

Remember one thing - Ukraine did not had much of an army to begin with. Ukrainian resistance efforts are commendable on the other hand.

It is pointless to jump to conclusions so soon. Everything will become clear in time.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499341236154609666

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## dBSPL

Dragons said:


> Not to forget two downed aircrafts one helicopter and MIG belonging to Romania...
> 
> Russia is on hyper-alert and the reason the MIG was taken out is because the Ukrainians used it to a great success hence it was mistaken for Ukrainian and the Helicopter was also showdown due to being mistaken for Ukrainian


The news of the Bangladesh ship being fired on is true. Because there was a Turkish ship in that area and there are eyewitnesses, even one of the missions of Turkish foreign affairs tweeted about the subject.

However, I am not sure about the alleged sinking Estonian ship. More detailed information will come in the coming hours.

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> I see some "Smarties" trying to score some "Brownie" points here, see what I did there?
> 
> I did* NOT *say EU is at war with Russia. If it does, it's WW3.
> 
> I said EU is "*EFFECTIVELY*" at war with Russia, kind of like US is "*EFFECTIVELY*" at war with Germany in 1940 when they announced "Lend-Lease" policy to help UK. You are not at war, but once you had done that, you are no longer "neutral" in a party. Which in political term is described as "Hostile" as much as US declare RT and CGTN "AGENT OF A FOREIGN POWER" Were US officially at war with China or Russia then?.
> 
> Either learn to read or learn some basic politic before you go all CAPS and claims other people were wrong.



Unless an official war is declared, there is no war and hence war laws dont apply.

Period.


----------



## OldTwilight

Corax said:


> I agree with a lot of your thoughts, there was no reason to keep NATO after the end of the Cold War, and should have been disbanded, much like the Warsaw Pact was. It has been used by the US to keep its grip on European policy, especially towards Russia*. However, hasn't Putin played into the US trap here? He's doing the very thing that the US wants, and to justify having NATO in the first place. *Won't this only strengthen NATO, not weaken it? The US has been asking European NATO members to increase their defence spending, and this is exactly what Germany has done, and probably more to follow. Moreover, it has also turned Europe against Russian influence in the region. As much as the sanctions will hurt both Russia and Europe, and given the decarbonisation trend anyway, this has only accelerated Europe's attempts to abandon fissile fuels anyway, and move to alternative sources and energy. Russia hasn't done much in that regard, and will probably hurt it more if there is a complete ban on Russian oil and gas. In addition, Europe could source their supplies from the US and Middle East instead.



The problem of this kind of analysis is that these assume that NATO was in process of disbanding , while in truth NATO is expanding ...

the basic assumption of these kind of analysis is wrong , so it goes wrong to the end with pretty logical explanation ...

Over militarization of EU would toss Eu to war era once again , just like past 2000 years ... 

this is more danger for them and USA than for Russians which will have both Ukrain and Belarus as it buffer zone backed by 1000s nuclear warheads ...

For example , The history proven that Germans has expansionist racism mindset and if their military power exceed some threshold , they will try to annex more land and will **** up their neighbors ...

map of wars in history



https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.26dc0adfcdfcd9e04570c9640fc469a1?rik=2A89bNQdx2MJyA&pid=ImgRaw&r=0

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## Dragons

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499324601377210372

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499327661885300738

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## MultaniGuy

Aesterix said:


> Here in UK all Russian Media websites , Youtube channels and Cable TV channels have been taken down. RT.com is blocked.
> Whatever happened of press freedom and freedom of opinion?


Excellent point. Whatever happened to Freedom of speech.

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## LeGenD

OldTwilight said:


> The problem of this kind of analysis is that these assume that NATO was in process of disbanding , while in truth NATO is expanding ...
> 
> the basic of assumption of these kind of analysis is wrong , so it goes wrong to end with pretty logical explanation ...


Yes, NATO is expanding over time.

I am not sure what some members are thinking here.


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## Dragons

dBSPL said:


> However, I am not sure about the alleged sinking Estonian ship. More detailed information will come in the coming hours.



There is a large Russian fleet currently inside the Black sea near Odessa preparing to make a landing assualt

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## coffee_cup

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Why? Nothing banned over here.
> https://www.rt.com/ works fine.



While whole of EU/UK etc are banning RT directly/indirectly, we have a friend here who can access RT and this is a proof that EU protects "Freedom of Speech".

And I am speechless!

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## Clutch

The Eagle said:


> Watch till end and suggest a caption. I have no words at all. Indians yelling being clueless and that's not new.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499298691156705282



Indians are such idiots. Their media is completely incompetent and full of Hindutva hate.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499317471752433665


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## The Eagle

Clutch said:


> Indians are such idiots. Their media is completely incompetent and full of Hindutva hate.



Host may be thinking of some call center Kumar pretending to be Mr. Mc. Adams so he will be comfortable with yelling.

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## obj 705A

Russian tank attacked with US anti-tank missile Javelin in battle — Defense Ministry​
MOSCOW, March 2. /TASS/. A Russian tank participating in the special operation in Ukraine has been attacked with a US Javelin anti-tank missile, the crew suffered a concussion but did not stop fighting, Russian Defense Ministry Spokesman Igor Konashenkov said on Wednesday.
"A Russian tank was attacked with a US Javelin anti-tank guided missile during the battle. *The crew sustained a concussion, but did not abandon the battle*," he said adding that *after making sure that the vehicle was in good working order, the tank crew destroyed two more enemy tanks with accurate fire.*
Konashenkov added that the Russian Defense Ministry would continue to inform about Russian service members’ heroic acts.



https://tass.com/defense/1415527

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## The SC

Meengla said:


> I am surprised that many countries abstained in the UNGA vote. When it comes to voting against Israeli actions in Palestine, I have seen 180+ countries vote against Israel--even most European countries do that. But, we know, UNGA is meaningless. As is UNSC becoming meaningless. Russian invasion is patently illegal just as was American invasion of Iraq in 2003.
> Might is Right. And power does flow from the barrel of a gun, to quote Mao.


Caricature of Brazilian artist Carlos Latuff

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## dBSPL

Dragons said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499324601377210372


This is the only true face of wars. You leave everything behind. As people leaves their lands to the smell of blood and gunpowder, they feel inside either the sadness of past memories or the peace of eternal rest. There is no time for anything, neither to say goodbye nor to meet again as you were in the past...

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## Dragons

dBSPL said:


> This is the only true face of wars. You leave everything behind. As people leaves their lands to the smell of blood and gunpowder, they feel inside either the sadness of past memories or the peace of eternal rest. There is no time for anything, neither to say goodbye nor to meet...



When other countries see war happening nearby they appreciate the peace they have currently.. It is divine decree so others can be grateful

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## Hassan Al-Somal

*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499147594924273664*

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## Ali_Baba

Huffal said:


> How reliable/true is this?











Top Russian general killed by Ukrainian sniper


Major General Andrey Sukhovetsky, who was the deputy commander of the 41st Combined Arms Army of Russia's Central Military District, was killed yesterday as Ukraine's defences held firm.




www.dailymail.co.uk





Other sources are reporting too.

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## Meengla

Dragons said:


> There is a large Russian fleet currently inside the Black sea near Odessa preparing to make a landing assualt



Looks like Russians are hellbent to make Ukraine a landlocked country! Major coastal cities taken at great costs to Russia.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499220579936784384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499265992479944705

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## The SC

Lavrov, commenting on the French Foreign Ministry's statement, said, "The French are often "chicken" because the rooster is their national symbol.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499341671502434307

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## LeGenD

Huffal said:


> How reliable/true is this?



Russian Major General Andrei Sukhovetsky is reportedly KIA.









Deputy Commander of the 41st Army, Major General Sukhovetsky, killed in Ukraine


Andrei Sukhovetsky graduated from the Ryazan Higher Airborne Command School in 1995




english.pravda.ru













Top Russian general killed by Ukrainian sniper


Major General Andrey Sukhovetsky, who was the deputy commander of the 41st Combined Arms Army of Russia's Central Military District, was killed yesterday as Ukraine's defences held firm.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## Hassan Al-Somal

This is a great discussion on how America's Deep State triggered this war. 👇



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499148018037186563

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499148427741081603

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## Dragons

The SC said:


> Lavrov, commenting on the French Foreign Ministry's statement, said, "The French are often "chicken" because the rooster is their national symbol.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499341671502434307



Hahahaha. This is savage  But hard to disagree with Lavrov on this one since that 9 days surrender in WW2 the french can't shake that one off


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## Wesen Hunter

LeGenD said:


> Russian Major General Andrei Sukhovetsky is reportedly KIA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deputy Commander of the 41st Army, Major General Sukhovetsky, killed in Ukraine
> 
> 
> Andrei Sukhovetsky graduated from the Ryazan Higher Airborne Command School in 1995
> 
> 
> 
> 
> english.pravda.ru
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Top Russian general killed by Ukrainian sniper
> 
> 
> Major General Andrey Sukhovetsky, who was the deputy commander of the 41st Combined Arms Army of Russia's Central Military District, was killed yesterday as Ukraine's defences held firm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk


Unconfirmed claim


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## Meengla

dBSPL said:


> This is the only true face of wars. You leave everything behind. As people leaves their lands to the smell of blood and gunpowder, they feel inside either the sadness of past memories or the peace of eternal rest. There is no time for anything, neither to say goodbye nor to meet again as you were in the past...



Well put.
And Eurasian continent is $ucked!! Look at the history--and this latest incarnation of another bloody war. Heck, Pakistan is only one country removed from Europe and has borne a direct price for being part of this cursed region for at least 40+ years or more if we go back to the Cold War days. Lucky are the Latinos, the north Americans, the Kiwis, the Aussies, even the Africans and the island nations who are relatively unharmed. I know those regions, especially Africa, have/had conflicts but Eurasia is on another scale.

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## Dragons

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> This is a great discussion on how America's Deep State triggered this war, 👇
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499146832127090694



I hate that bitxht called Tulsi she is extremely cringeworthy please refrain from posting anything with her in here she triggers my cringe-levels


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## Turingsage

sur said:


> Except that Russia *NEVER* said or implied that. Utterly clueless claim you made.
> 
> Except that Pakistanis are *NOT* supporting this invasion. Just don't like the *hypocrisy *of so-called west that they are free to invade scores of countries but are pious and all all of a sudden. And believe that West is the actual *instigator *here. And that *Russian claim* that Donbas has suffered crimes at the hand of governing party for last 8 years is *valid*.
> 
> "*Sau Chohaay Khaa Ke Billi Hajj Ko Challee*" [= After gobbling 100 mice, cat going for the pilgrimage].
> 
> 
> View attachment 820283
> 
> (source)




You should listen less to propaganda and listen to what the Russians say regarding Ukraine.
All countries in the UN sitting on the fence and especially India should vote for what is right and not what is convenient


“There is no Ukraine”: Fact-Checking the Kremlin’s Version of Ukrainian History​_The notion that Ukraine is not a country, but a historical part of Russia, appears to be deeply ingrained in the minds of Russian leadership. Competing interpretations of history have turned into a key ingredient of the deepening dispute between Russia and the West and a subject that Putin in particular appears to feel unusually passionate about. In this article, Dr Björn Alexander Duben explores the question, is it historically accurate to claim has never truly been a nation or state in its own right?_
For more than twenty years, Vladislav Surkov was a known quantity in Vladimir Putin’s Kremlin. Dubbed the ‘Grey Cardinal’ and the Kremlin’s main ideologist, Surkov is commonly regarded as the mastermind of Putin’s Ukraine policy which plunged Moscow into open conflict with the West. By late February 2020, however, he had apparently fallen from grace and was unexpectedly sacked from his position as personal advisor to the president. Surkov has been prone to making frank, off-the-cuff public remarks that stand in marked contrast to the _omertà_ practiced by most of Putin’s inner circle, offering rare glimpses into what policymakers in the Kremlin appear to be thinking. True to form, within days of his dismissal he stirred up fresh controversy by publicly questioning the existence of Ukrainian statehood. In an interview published on 26 February, Surkov stated that “there is no Ukraine. There is Ukrainian-ness. That is, a specific disorder of the mind. An astonishing enthusiasm for ethnography, driven to the extreme.” Surkov went on to claim that Ukraine is “a muddle instead of a state. […] But there is no nation. There is only a brochure, ‘The Self-Styled Ukraine’, but there is no Ukraine.”
*“Ukraine is not even a state”*
Surkov is not the first Russian official to make such a claim. The notion that Ukraine is not a country in its own right, but a historical part of Russia, appears to be deeply ingrained in the minds of many in the Russian leadership. Already long before the Ukraine crisis, at an April 2008 NATO summit in Bucharest, Vladimir Putin reportedly claimed that “Ukraine is not even a state! What is Ukraine? A part of its territory is [in] Eastern Europe, but a[nother] part, a considerable one, was a gift from us!” In his March 18, 2014 speech marking the annexation of Crimea, Putin declared that Russians and Ukrainians “are one people. Kiev is the mother of Russian cities. Ancient Rus’ is our common source and we cannot live without each other.” Since then, Putin has repeated similar claims on many occasions. As recently as February 2020, he once again stated in an interview that Ukrainians and Russians “are one and the same people”, and he insinuated that Ukrainian national identity had emerged as a product of foreign interference. Similarly, Russia’s then-Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev told a perplexed apparatchik in April 2016 that there has been “no state” in Ukraine, neither before nor after the 2014 crisis.
Such slogans and insinuations might be little more than a rhetorical smokescreen concealing a pursuit of sober, hard-nosed _realpolitik_. But there is much to suggest that these beliefs are in fact informing policymaking at the highest levels of power. What’s more, they appear to have rubbed off on other world leaders as well. In an autumn 2017 briefing, US President Donald Trump reportedly exclaimed that Ukraine “wasn’t a ‘real country,’ that it had always been a part of Russia”.
Statements like these from some of the world’s most powerful leaders illustrate that history has become a subject of enormous importance for both sides in the Russian-Ukrainian conflict. Historical arguments have been used to justify and rationalise Russia’s annexation of Crimea. From the moment unmarked troops seized the Peninsula in late February 2014, Russian officials have made any number of misleading claims about Crimea’s past and have greatly exaggerated the extent of its historic connections with Russia. But beyond the status of Crimea, disputes about the correct interpretation of the past have been at the centre of Russia’s policies towards Ukraine as a whole. More broadly, competing interpretations of history – particularly the Stalinist period – have turned into a key ingredient of the deepening dispute between Russia and the West and a subject that Putin in particular appears to feel unusually passionate about. Amid all the mythmaking about Ukraine’s past, a brief reality check is in order: Is it historically accurate to claim that Ukraine has never truly been a nation or a state in its own right?
*Kievan Roots*
Aside from its cultural proximity, Ukraine’s sentimental and spiritual appeal to many Russians derives from the fact that the Kievan Rus’ – a medieval state that came into existence in the 9th century and was centred around present-day Kiev – is regarded as a joint ancestral homeland that laid the foundations for both modern Russia and Ukraine. But from the time of its foundation to its conquest by the Mongols in the 13th century, the Rus’ was an increasingly fragmented federation of principalities. Its south-western territories, including Kiev, were conquered by Poland and Lithuania in the early 14th century. For roughly four hundred years, these territories, encompassing most of present-day Ukraine, were formally ruled by Poland-Lithuania, which left a deep cultural imprint on them. During these four centuries, the Orthodox East Slavic population of these lands gradually developed an identity distinct from that of the East Slavs remaining in the territories under Mongol and later Muscovite rule. A distinct Ukrainian language had already begun to emerge in the dying days of the Kievan Rus’ (notwithstanding Vladimir Putin’s factually incorrect claim that “the first linguistic differences [between Ukrainians and Russians] appeared only around the 16th century”). Following the incorporation of present-day Ukraine into Poland-Lithuania, the Ukrainian language evolved in relative isolation from the Russian language. At the same time, religious divisions developed within Eastern Orthodoxy. From the mid-15th to the late 17th centuries, the Orthodox Churches in Moscow and in Kiev developed as separate entities, initiating a division that eventually resurfaced in later schisms.
Most of what is now Ukraine was formally governed by Polish-Lithuanian nobility prior to the 18th century, but these lands were predominantly inhabited by Orthodox East Slavs who began to form semi-autonomous hosts of peasant warriors – the Cossacks. Most of them felt a cultural affinity for Muscovite Russia but had no particular desire to be a part of the Muscovite state. In the 16th through 18th centuries, the Cossacks in present-day Ukraine began to form their own _de facto_ statelets, the ‘Zaporizhian Sich’ and later the Cossack ‘Hetmanate’. They staged a major uprising against their Polish overlords in 1648. Six years later, the expanding Tsardom of Russia signed a treaty of alliance with the Zaporizhian Cossacks. Notwithstanding this temporary turn towards Moscow, the Cossacks also explored other options: In the Treaty of Hadiach with Poland in 1658, they were on the verge of becoming a fully-fledged constituent member of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Had this treaty been successfully implemented, it would likely have tied the Cossacks’ quasi-state firmly to its western neighbours for the foreseeable future.
The treaty failed, however, and the Cossacks remained divided in their loyalties. Internal disagreements about whether to side with Poland or Russia contributed to a series of civil wars among them in the late 1600s. In a foreshadowing of Ukraine’s present-day dilemma, the Cossacks shifted their allegiance more than once with the ultimate aim of gaining autonomy from both sides. In 1667, Poland-Lithuania had to cede to Moscow control of the territories east of and including Kiev. The Cossack statelet in the eastern territories gradually turned into a Russian vassal state, but its relationship with Russia was rife with conflict. Sporadic Cossack uprisings were now directed against the Tsars. In 1708, for instance, the Cossacks’ leader Ivan Mazepa allied himself with Sweden and fought against Russia in the Great Northern War. In 1775, the Zaporizhian Sich was razed to the ground by Russian forces, and the Cossacks’ institutions of self-governance were liquidated. Following the final Partitions of Poland in the 1790s, the Russian Empire absorbed the remainder of modern-day Ukraine (apart from its extreme west, which was annexed by Austria).
The territories of Ukraine remained a part of the Russian state for the next 120 years. Russia’s imperial authorities systematically persecuted expressions of Ukrainian culture and made continuous attempts to suppress the Ukrainian language. In spite of this, a distinct Ukrainian national consciousness emerged and consolidated in the course of the 19th century, particularly among the elites and intelligentsia, who made various efforts to further cultivate the Ukrainian language. When the Russian Empire collapsed in the aftermath of the revolutions of 1917, the Ukrainians declared a state of their own. After several years of warfare and quasi-independence, however, Ukraine was once again partitioned between the nascent Soviet Union and newly independent Poland. From the early 1930s onwards, nationalist sentiments were rigorously suppressed in the Soviet parts of Ukraine, but they remained latent and gained further traction through the traumatic experience of the ‘Holodomor’, a disastrous famine brought about by Joseph Stalin’s agricultural policies in 1932-33 that killed between three and five million Ukrainians. Armed revolts against Soviet rule were staged during and after World War II and were centred on the western regions of Ukraine that had been annexed from Poland in 1939-40. It was only with the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991 that Ukraine gained lasting independent statehood of its own – but Ukrainian _de facto_ political entities struggling for their autonomy or independence had existed long before that.
*Redrawing Borders in the ‘Wild Fields’*
Even among those who do not question Ukraine’s historic right to independent statehood, it is common to assume that its internationally recognised borders, particularly those with Russia, are in essence artificial. Besides the controversial case of Crimea, many Russians are convinced that the embattled south-eastern regions of Ukraine that have now become the epicentre of the deadly conflict between Kiev and Moscow should rightfully be considered a part of Russia that was accidentally ‘lost’ to Ukraine in the upheavals of the 20th century. Vladimir Putin has routinely referred to these parts of Ukraine as ‘New Russia’ (‘Novorossiya’), an administrative name for these regions during the time when Ukraine was a part of the Tsarist empire. The message conveyed by using this term is that these territories are not historically connected to the remainder of Ukraine.
The precise south-eastern borders of historical Ukraine are indeed difficult to establish. In the days of the Kievan Rus’, control of what is now southern Ukraine was at best sporadic, and it never extended to the east, which was ruled by Turkic tribes. During Polish-Lithuanian rule, these territories became known as the ‘Wild Fields’ – a sparsely populated no-man’s-land that was constantly threatened by Tatar raids. By the 1600s, the Zaporizhian Cossacks were able to establish a modicum of control over these territories, and they also settled in some regions that extend far into present-day Russia. When the eastern parts of today’s Ukraine came under formal Russian control in the 17th century, the Cossacks’ rule there remained largely autonomous. Substantial settlement of these vast territories did not begin until the early 19th century, and their ethnic make-up remained very diverse – as reflected by the fact that it was neither Ukrainians nor Russians, but British industrialists, who founded Luhansk (1795) and Donetsk (1869), the two cities at the centre of the current separatist conflict.
The eastern borders of Ukraine were formally drawn in 1919-1924 as the boundaries of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic (UkrSSR). Vladimir Putin made a reference to this in his March 18, 2014 address to the Russian parliament, when he claimed that “after the revolution, the Bolsheviks, for a number of reasons – may God judge them – added large sections of the historical South of Russia to the Republic of Ukraine. This was done with no consideration for the ethnic make-up of the population, and today these areas form the southeast of Ukraine.” Putin made similar claims on various other occasions. At a January 2016 speech he lamented that the Soviet Union’s internal borders had been “established arbitrarily, without much reason” and called the inclusion of the Donets Basin in the UkrSSR “pure nonsense”. As recently as December 2019, during his annual end-of-year press conference, Putin complained that, “when the Soviet Union was created, primordially Russian territories that never had anything to do with Ukraine (the entire Black Sea region and Russia’s western lands) were turned over to Ukraine”.
Putin’s statements (which he has reiterated on various occasions) are wrong on two counts: For one, the claim that present-day eastern or southern Ukraine should have been considered part of “the historical South of Russia” or “primordially Russian territories” in the 1920s seems preposterous, since there had been no substantial Russian presence in these territories at any time prior to the 19th century. Secondly, Putin’s assertion that Ukraine’s south-eastern borders were established “with no consideration for the ethnic make-up of the population” is equally false. The first Soviet census in 1926, a few years after the eastern borders of the UkrSSR had been finalised, showed that in all territories of eastern Ukraine, including those that are now contested, ethnic Ukrainians still far outnumbered ethnic Russians. What ultimately changed this in the 1930s was the demographic devastation wrought by Stalin’s agricultural genocide, the ‘Holodomor’.
*Conclusion*
The frontlines of the frozen conflict between Ukrainian forces and Russian-backed separatists are criss-crossing the plains of the Donets Basin, but they are also running right through the region’s past. Russia’s incursions into Ukraine have enjoyed tremendous support at home and, in some quarters, abroad. Many have been slow to denounce them – or quick to embrace them – out of a conviction that the Kremlin has history on its side; that Ukraine has never been a ‘real’ country in its own right and that its south-eastern territories in particular are primordial Russian lands. Russia’s political top brass, including Vladimir Putin himself, appear to subscribe to this belief as well, and by all appearances it has directly informed their policy towards Ukraine. But as much as these assumptions may resonate with ordinary Russians, as well as some foreign leaders, a glance into Ukrainian history reveals that they are based on a dangerously distorted reading of the past. Ultimately, by redrawing borders and rewriting history the Kremlin is unlikely to have done itself a favour. Through its intervention in Ukraine it has galvanised most Ukrainians in their aversion to Russia and has thereby done a great deal to demarcate the perceived differences between Ukrainians and Russians more clearly than ever before.

*Dr Björn Alexander Düben *_is an Assistant Professor at the School of International and Public Affairs, Jilin University and has previously taught International Relations and Security Studies at LSE and King’s College London. He holds a PhD in International Relations from the LSE and graduate degrees from the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge._
Featured Image: _The Zaporozhye Cossacks Replying to the Sultan_. The Yorck Procject (2002). Wikimedia Commons
​


History as the consistent and determining driver of Russia’s strategy​February 17, 2022
In “Featured”
The Legitimacy of Russia's Actions in Ukraine​In this post for LSE International History, Björn Alexander Düben analyses the recent outbreak of conflict in Ukraine. Dr Düben examines Russia’s military campaign in Ukraine and its annexation of Ukrainian territory, and argues that Russia’s claims to parts of Ukraine and its annexation of territory in the country has little basis…
March 4, 2015
In "Cold War"
Economic Sanctions: Past & Future​In this post for LSE International History, Borja Guijarro-Usobiaga discusses the past, present and future of sanctions. The article analyses the evolution and effectiveness of sanctions as a deterrence and punishment mechanism. Mr Guijarro-Usobiaga argues that sanctions have come a long-way since the 1990s and do constitute an effective means…
April 16, 2015
In "Diplomatic History"
July 1st, 2020|Uncategorized|6 Comments
6 Comments​







*Catrin* July 13, 2020 at 11:13 pm - Reply
Thank you so much for writing this article. Thank you for researching so well. I’m Ukrainian-American and I’ve never seen such a succinct and accurate summary of Ukrainian history in English. If I ever need to educate someone about the validity of Ukrainian-ness and Ukraine’s borders, I will direct them to this article.





*Victor Rud* July 20, 2020 at 12:40 am - Reply
Dr. Duben gets many points right, but his springboard is unfortunately the repetition of late 18 and 19th century Russian rewriting of history in the search for an extended pedigree.
“Aside from its cultural proximity, Ukraine’s sentimental and spiritual appeal to many Russians derives from the fact that the Kievan Rus’ – a medieval state that came into existence in the 9th century and was centred around present-day Kiev – is regarded as a joint ancestral homeland that laid the foundations for both modern Russia and Ukraine. ”
That means that ancient Rome was the genesis of the ensuing nations that Rome had within its jurisdiction, with today’s Romania (by analogy, today’s Russia), then having the right to claim Rome as its beginning, with today’s Italians simply disoriented Romanians. Indeed, the name, Romania, and also a Latin language, makes the parallel even more complete. If anything, you’d think the argument would be that today’s Ukraine, with it’s center in Kyiv, has ghe right to reassert dominion over its ancient possession, today’s Russia. Indeed, following the logic of Russian historiographers, today’s Ukrainian’s should claim the Scandanavian countries as their begininig, with Oslo or Stockholm, perhaps, a Ukrainian city. You get the point. Harvard University’s late Edward Keenan burst the mythology of “Russia history”, accepted as gospel in the West.
Other observations are that the forced starvation of 1932-33 was not the result of agricultural policies, concluded in early 1932, but the blockading of the country and removal of all edibles in order to break the back of the Ukrainian ethos, originating and secured by the village.





*taras mychalewych* July 27, 2020 at 4:35 pm - Reply
It seems to me that Puti(n) is seeing all this backwards or upsidedown. As the Kievan Rus existed first, and unsatisfied peoples began moving north in search of a better (?) life, where they later mixed with the Finnish tribes and Mongolians, it’d be obvious that Ukraine existed already before Russia became a reality. Kiev would indeed be the Mother of Slavic cities.





*Victoria Malko* August 23, 2020 at 11:59 pm - Reply
Indeed, a nice overview of the Ukrainian history, with few omissions. First, until the 11th century schism in Christianity into Catholic and Eastern Orthodox, Kyivan Rus had common faith with Rome, and dynastic marriages linked Kyiv with faraway Paris. Moscow was founded in 1147, so “Russia” did not exist at the time.
Second, the Ukrainian nation existed for centuries in the minds and hearts of its people without a state. A nation-state concept does not apply. Although the Ukrainian language belongs to the Balto-Slavic language family, it shares less than one percent of root words with Russian (and that is according to Russian etymologists). Most borrowings have entered the Ukrainian language via Latin, German, and Polish, whereas Russian borrowings come mostly from Turkic languages.
Third, the Ukrainians have preserved their democratic tradition of governance, evident from periodic popular revolutions to change the government if it no longer meets the needs of the civil society. Russia, in contrast, has become an authoritarian dictatorship, largely thanks to its founding father Peter the Great, uneducated in any European university, except shipyards of Amsterdam. It was he who appropriated the term “Rus” for Muscovy to make it sound like Britannia and Austria, other imperial powers. It was Peter the Great who labeled himself and his subjects in Muscovy Great Russians, and to avoid tautology used “Little Russians” for his subjects in now nameless region of Ukraine.
Finally, little wonder why Stalin had a portrait of Peter the Great in his bunker in Samara, dug out in 1941 when Nazi troops were advancing on Moscow. Stalin, who did not identify himself with backward Georgia, but with Great Russia, forged this straight jacket identity on the Ukrainians, who spoke the language the Bolsheviks did not understand. The Ukrainians fought for their freedom from autocracy and tyranny, be it Soviet or Nazi, to have the right to live in their own land and speak their own language. Stalin’s attempt to destroy the nation and its culture in 1932-1933 in a GPU operation camouflaged under the “grain procurement” campaign cost twice as many lives as the Russian demographers claim. Think about it!

*Nationalist Myths Drove the Russia-Ukraine and Armenia-Azerbaijan Wars | taktik(z) GDI (Government Defense Infrastructure)* February 16, 2021 at 8:31 pm - Reply
[…] Russian and Armenian eyes there are no Ukrainians or Azerbaijanis. President Vladimir Putin and Russian nationalists have repeatedly said Russians […]

*The World Should Not Ignore Putin’s Ukraine Oppression* July 26, 2021 at 11:53 am - Reply
[…] numerous occasions since 2014, Putin has directly questioned Ukraine’s historical legitimacy and claimed that much of today’s Ukraine was unjustly taken from Russia. This unambiguously […]


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“There is no Ukraine”: Fact-Checking the Kremlin’s Version of Ukrainian History


The notion that Ukraine is not a country, but a historical part of Russia, appears to be deeply ingrained in the minds of Russian leadership. Competing interpretations of history have turned into a…




blogs.lse.ac.uk


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## Wood

jhungary said:


> Well, there will still be "Russia" just not Putin's Russia representing it. I would imagine it will be the opposition party. You cannot replace a country, but you can replace "representation" of a country with a GA vote, not sure if that make sense to you?
> 
> I too was doubtful this will happen tho, yes, with General Assembly support, it can be done, but that does not change the security council vote parity, unless China is willing to abandon the Putin regime, I don't see the point of doing it. And China still need Putin support but as it goes, Putin would be more and more a liability of China. Which mean at some point, probably when China have no use of Putin's Russia anymore, they will be discarded, but that probably 5 year from now or 10 years from now, nobody knows.


Putin is China's only major ally in world stage. Without Putin's Russia, China cannot be confident of taking an allied EU/US in direct confrontation. China will be Putin's sugar daddy for the foreseeable future

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499394162533146626

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## LakeHawk180

ROSCOSMOS removes US, UK and Japanese flags from Baikonur Launch Pad. Indian, Korean and French flags untouched.​

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499342703514959876


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## Dragons



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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499384413041405954
Oh Oh. Things are not looking good for Mr. Leon and Alex

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## Iñigo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> This is a great discussion on how America's Deep State triggered this war, 👇
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499148018037186563
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499148427741081603



Yes ...

in a rational world these few voices and free minds like the commander and former congresswoman Tulsi Gabbar that we hear here or like Colonel Douglas McGregor ... they would have reached very high; but the oligarchic-plutocratic political system of the US military-financial empire is complete madness.

...

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## Dragons

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499384413041405954
> Oh Oh. Things are not looking good for Mr. Leon and Alex
> 
> View attachment 820435

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## RescueRanger

Dragons said:


> There is a large Russian fleet currently inside the Black sea near Odessa preparing to make a landing assualt


Landing crafts in Sea of Azov source : War Gonzo


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## dBSPL

Second Round. The Ukrainian side wearing military tracksuit. The Russian side is in a suit.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499398407110029315

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## Dragons

Iñigo said:


> Yes ...
> 
> in a rational world these few voices and free minds like the commander and former congresswoman Tulsi Gabbar that we hear here or like Colonel Douglas McGregor ... they would have reached very high; but the oligarchic-plutocratic political system of the US military-financial empire is complete madness.
> 
> ...



Tulsi is the definition of cringeworthy because if you are an American why not support the American way of life.. She is a rotten apple that has betrayed her own people and she is even useless at that nor a good person

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## RescueRanger

If Mariupol falls it will mark a shift in this conflict.



dBSPL said:


> Second Round. The Ukrainian side wearing military tracksuit. The Russian side is in a suit.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499398407110029315


🙄


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## khansaheeb

RescueRanger said:


> Apparently not
> 
> … #nocomment
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499244211496968192


An ambitious woman who has forgotten the history of her people and


jhungary said:


> China will not invade Taiwan.
> 
> First you need a competent Navy to do that, China is NOT at this level to shut out the entire Taiwan Strait.
> 
> Second, US Navy may get involved, Taiwan host the major IC hub in the world, while China control rare earth, the reason why China sell rare earther to Taiwan or anyone is because without Taiwan or SK or US, there will be no chips. If China captured Taiwan, and capture the entire IC infrastructure, there are no reason for China to sell rare earth material to US or anyone. That would be a problem US will not afford to have. And when US Navy is involved, China will have a hard time to land in Taiwan, unlike Ukraine and Russia , there is a sea border between Taiwan and China.
> 
> And Thirdly, they will not need China to vote in support, they only need China to abstain, which is like what they did now. In both UNSC and GA.
> 
> And finally, if US and EU impose the same sanction on Russia to China, China will go bust. 70% of world trade happened related to the West. And China still largely use SWIFT. Unless China think Africa or Fail South American state are good trading partner, they can't find an alternative to EU + US, Chinese market is big, but not as big as US, Canada, EU, UK, Australia, NZ, Japan and SK combine. Actually far from it.
> 
> But all that said, Russia is still useful to China, that's why as I said, this is not going to happen as China will not let this go for now, maybe i 10 years or something when China technology is better than Russia, they may, I don't know, but not now. Which make a move to replace Russia pointless.


The same sort of denials Russia made before invading Ukraine. I didn't specify a timescale but China has a national goal of reunifying Taiwan and it is written in black and white.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499377472781139980

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## TheNoob

dBSPL said:


> Second Round. The Ukrainian side wearing military tracksuit. The Russian side is in a suit.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499398407110029315



Now that's just weird show off move. 
I doubt they've even went anywhere near a cat fight.

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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499377472781139980


If they keep cornering the Russians eventually Putinsky will have no choice but to say “F it” and go full retard.

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## 925boy

hualushui said:


> There are always some people who say the *right nonsense* but can't solve real problems


isnt this called an American? just wondering.

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## dBSPL

RescueRanger said:


> If Mariupol falls it will mark a shift in this conflict.
> 
> 
> 🙄


Shall I say something surprising? I think Ukraine is negotiating terms of surrender.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499389744228319235

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## RescueRanger

TheNoob said:


> Now that's just weird show off move.
> I doubt they've even went anywhere near a cat fight.


100 percent agreed that sort of stunt you’d expect of the Shoda riding his 125 on a busy road with his hair slicked back with Chambali oil and rocking to stereo nation

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## TheNoob

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499377472781139980



Aren't these commercial drones just fodder for the weakest EW Countermeasure out there?

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## Hamartia Antidote

coffee_cup said:


> While whole of *EU/UK *etc are banning RT directly/indirectly, we have a friend here who can access RT and this is a proof that EU protects "Freedom of Speech".



Well then don't quickly add the *US* next time in your statement if you can't get the truth straight.

Let me cross that out for you and fix your post.

"Next time if anyone from *UK*/US *EU* gives me a lecture about "freedom of speech", I am gonna give them piece of my mind."



coffee_cup said:


> And I am speechless!


No, you are just writing before thinking.


----------



## dBSPL

TheNoob said:


> Now that's just weird show off move.
> I doubt they've even went anywhere near a cat fight.


One side was in a 4 star hotel. The other side came out of the bunker. It's normal.


----------



## Dragons

dBSPL said:


> Shall I say something surprising? I think Ukraine is negotiating terms of surrender.



I don't think Ukraine will surrender they will fight on imho as arms are being send and also they have hope of keeping onto the western part of the country when everything is said and done

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## TheNoob

RescueRanger said:


> 100 percent agreed that sort of stunt you’d expect of the Shoda riding his 125 on a busy road with his hair slicked back with Chambali oil and rocking to stereo nation



Like I said before about that cap-wearing guy.
he's definitely an ex-manager!

Telling zeleboy how to make the next appearances to make his fangirls go kyaaaa~



dBSPL said:


> One side was in a 4 star hotel. The other side came out of the bunker. It's normal.


Given how clean their clothes are, i'd say they were more or less playing table tennis just before the meet rather than being in a bunker.

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## RescueRanger

TheNoob said:


> Like I said before about that cap-wearing guy.
> he's definitely an ex-manager!
> 
> Telling zeleboy how to make the next appearances to make his fangirls go kyaaaa~


Yes 100% this is all image management. Been in the game long enough to see though the facade.

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## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> An ambitious woman who has forgotten the history of her people and
> 
> The same sort of denials Russia made before invading Ukraine. I didn't specify a timescale but China has a national goal of reunifying Taiwan and it is written in black and white.


Well, you don't need a time scale, all you need is any invasion of Taiwan via force will defeat the purpose to recapture Taiwan in the first place. unless you are thinking of China want Taiwan back as a wasteland. You are ALWAYS going to look at urban fighting if you try to recapture Taiwan by force. Which mean city center is going to lay in ruin, and everything will be destroyed. This may have work in Middle East where nobody really care how destroy or damage done to Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan, but do you really think China want to do that to Taiwan? I mean, would China want Taiwan if Taiwan is a piece of ruinscape that got bombed to piece??

And that is BEFORE there are any possibility of US involvement.

Any reunification is going to be political, any sort of "invasion by force" is going to be rhetorical

EDIT:: I should also say the only scenario I can think of for China to disregard everything and invade Taiwan is either US annex Taiwan (fat chance that happened) or Taiwan declare independence (again, fat chance that would happened) Otherwise any sort of reunification is going to be economic based (as in the TMSC example I used in a post before) SO it virtually no sense for China to destroy Taiwan completely to "recapture" Taiwan


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## Dragons

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499401584882581507


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## dBSPL

Dragons said:


> I don't think Ukraine will surrender they will fight on imho as arms are being send and also they have hope of keeping onto the western part of the country when everything is said and done


Don't be too sure.

Lavrov: "Moscow is ready to discuss Ukrainian President *Zelensky's request* for a 'security guarantee'".

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## jhungary

Wood said:


> Putin is China's only major ally in world stage. Without Putin's Russia, China cannot be confident of taking an allied EU/US in direct confrontation. China will be Putin's sugar daddy for the foreseeable future


As I said, until China had done with them, then Russia is nothing but a liability at that point.

This war is basically for Putin to commit political suicide, maybe he is going to retire, so he wouldn't care? I don't know, but I can't see any strategic or even tactical gain for the Russian from this war.


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## Dragons

dBSPL said:


> Don't be too sure.
> 
> Lavrov: "Moscow is ready to discuss Ukrainian President *Zelensky's request* for a 'security guarantee'".



I don't see surrender happening here because this Admin even if they are defeated they wanna go down fighting and don't wanna enter in a humiliating page of their history hence they will go down swinging

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499392485197451268


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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> Unless an official war is declared, there is no war and hence war laws dont apply.
> 
> Period.


First of all, there are no "WAR LAW" the law of war is to govern how war is conduct, not how war is started.

Second of all, any country CAN choose their own law, and how to start a war, in effect, sanctioning Russia can be seen as a economic WAR on Russia. Or what do you think Trade "*WAR*" means? If it does not imply hostility

Just because you said "Period" does not mean it is "Period"

Again, my advice, go read some political books *BEFORE* you comment.


----------



## Paul2

Kherson is their only major gain West of Dnieper.

And it's mostly light force, without much military hardware. It's only one blown up bridge away from a military cutoff, just like most of their force in the South. If their counteroffensive will start, Russian force in the South is in the most vulnerable position. Logistics hanging by a thread, and they left Crimea undefended by leaving their positions there, and taking their AA with them.

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## Wood

jhungary said:


> As I said, until China had done with them, then Russia is nothing but a liability at that point.
> 
> This war is basically for Putin to commit political suicide, maybe he is going to retire, so he wouldn't care? I don't know, but I can't see any strategic or even tactical gain for the Russian from this war.


Putin is too young to retire. He has tabled changes to Russian constitution that would effectively help him remain President until mid 2030s.

I think Putin's Ukraine invasion is an ideological war. He wants to bring back the Soviet Union before his retirement and does not care about how many bodies he has to step over for that to happen. Political suicide is only possible if an average Russian on the street is reduced to a pauper and the rich in Russia reduced to middle class. The west really needs to find long term alternatives for Russian energy imports. Even then, China will keep Russia on life support.

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## TheNoob

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499392485197451268



I'd take that with a huge bag of salt given the way its written.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499391505051443205


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## Paul2

OldTwilight said:


> The problem of this kind of analysis is that these assume that NATO was in process of disbanding , while in truth NATO is expanding ...



What people were assuming was not so much NATO "dying," but being defunct, because NATO's brain was dead.



NATO will survive, and strengthen, but with much weaker US role. US will likely never again be able to launch something like Iraq war with NATO troops.


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## The SC

TheNoob said:


> I'd take that with a huge bag of salt given the way its written.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499393906634596359


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## Paul2

Ali_Baba said:


> Top Russian general killed by Ukrainian sniper
> 
> 
> Major General Andrey Sukhovetsky, who was the deputy commander of the 41st Combined Arms Army of Russia's Central Military District, was killed yesterday as Ukraine's defences held firm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other sources are reporting too.


Wow, a they sent a ducking general into the field? This is either desperation, or extreme incompetence.

Or... maybe they shot him themselves


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## Dragons

Wood said:


> an allied EU/US in direct confrontation. China will be Putin's sugar daddy for the foreseeable future



China has formidble alliance in the east Pakistan-IEA-Uzbekistan-Turkmenistan-North Korea-China Hence this alliance could field numerous amount of manpower and Russia was never China's strong point or endgame. The power is solely in the east enough to completely shatter EU completely. EU could be turned into Ukraine with mass incursions like a star wars movie.

I don't see what is so funny about this.. As they could field a whopping 50m fighting force that is more then enough rollover the entire of Europe in one go

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## TheNoob

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499393906634596359



Now, this is written more properly. 
even with translation.



Paul2 said:


> Wow, a they sent a ducking general into the field? This is either desperation, or extreme incompetence.
> 
> Or... maybe they shot him themselves



I don't know about you but many countries use their officers differently. 
You should see the casualty rate between the officers in Pakistan.


----------



## Iñigo

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499385395599101953

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## beijingwalker

Russia Removes US, Japan Flags From Space Rocket, Keeps India's​The symbolic move by the space agency Roscosmos that shows ties between Russia and these nations have nosedived comes a week after Russia invaded Ukraine​WorldEdited by Debanish AchomUpdated: March 03, 2022 6:41 pm IST






Russia's Roscosmos removes US and others' flags, keeps India's untouched

*New Delhi: *
The Russian government's space agency has removed the flags of several nations including the US and Japan - but kept India's flag intact - painted on a massive rocket in the spaceport Baikonur.

The symbolic move by the space agency Roscosmos that shows ties between Russia and these nations have nosedived comes a week after Russia invaded Ukraine over the east European nation's attempts to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, or NATO.

As Russian forces swept cities after cities in Ukraine, NATO member states France, Germany and the UK, and nations friendly to the US, such as Japan, have announced harsh sanctions that targeted trade and taken aggressive measures to cut off Russia from the sporting and cultural world.

"The launchers at Baikonur decided that without the flags of some countries, our rocket would look more beautiful," Roscosmos Director General Dmitry Olegovich Rogozin tweeted.

https://twitter.com/Rogozin/status/1499043075586469900?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499043075586469900%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ndtv.com%2Fworld-news%2Fvideo-russia-removes-flags-of-us-japan-from-space-rocket-keeps-indias-2801675

The tweet has a video that shows Russian workers at the spaceport erasing the flags of other nations. India's flag, however, remains untouched. India yesterday supported the international community's call for an immediate ceasefire after abstaining on a UN General Assembly resolution that strongly deplored Russia's aggression against Ukraine, the third abstention in less than a week by India. Russia has thanked India for its stand on the crisis.

Roscosmos, earlier known as the Russian Federal Space Agency, was formed in 1992 after merging the agency and United Rocket and Space Corporation, a joint-stock entity meant to bolster the space sector.

Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky today said "Russia will pay" for the invasion of his country, as Russian forces continue to encircle key Ukrainian cities supported by massive missile and rocket attacks.

On the ground, Russian forces have taken the Black Sea port of Kherson in southern Ukraine, the first major city to fall after a string of setbacks for Moscow. They also pound and encircle the strategic port city of Mariupol, which is without water or electricity.


* https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/vid...-japan-from-space-rocket-keeps-indias-2801675*


----------



## LeGenD

jhungary said:


> Well, you don't need a time scale, all you need is any invasion of Taiwan via force will defeat the purpose to recapture Taiwan in the first place. unless you are thinking of China want Taiwan back as a wasteland. You are ALWAYS going to look at urban fighting if you try to recapture Taiwan by force. Which mean city center is going to lay in ruin, and everything will be destroyed. This may have work in Middle East where nobody really care how destroy or damage done to Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan, but do you really think China want to do that to Taiwan? I mean, would China want Taiwan if Taiwan is a piece of ruinscape that got bombed to piece??
> 
> And that is BEFORE there are any possibility of US involvement.
> 
> Any reunification is going to be political, any sort of "invasion by force" is going to be rhetorical


China is much better equipped than Taiwan but Taiwan has planned its defenses very well; numerous Taiwanese defensive positions are in mountainous locations which can absorb heavy firepower. Taiwan's geography is very well suited for waging guerilla warfare - it is surrounded by ocean and feature a large number of mountains in the middle. It is not easy to insert a large force in Taiwan given its geography and mined spaces. *IF* Taiwanese are courageous and willing to fight, they can win the war on the ground. It will come down to human factor in this case.



Wood said:


> Putin is too young to retire. He has tabled changes to Russian constitution that would effectively help him remain President until mid 2030s.
> 
> I think Putin's Ukraine invasion is an ideological war. He wants to bring back the Soviet Union before his retirement and does not care about how many bodies he has to step over for that to happen. Political suicide is only possible if an average Russian on the street is reduced to a pauper and the rich in Russia reduced to middle class. The west really needs to find long term alternatives for Russian energy imports. Even then, China will keep Russia on life support.


My take in following post:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


@Beast @8888888888888 LOL.. Isnt the one that crashed recently? Why shall China worry about it? No matter how is upgrade, it is still an old airframe which is prone to crashed or non optimum use due to not able to pull 9G.



defence.pk

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499405285433253889

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## Dragons

I would have really love to see IEA make a cameo in this war one way or another.. They are an exciting bunch

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## Wood

LeGenD said:


> You are very optimistic about Russian options and leverage.
> 
> Vladimir Putin was doing well until he decided to invade Ukraine. Have a look at my take on this matter:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> Does someone know where Mexico stands on this conflict? Has Mexico put sanctions on Russia as well?
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin have managed to rejuvenate NATO instead; more countries are willing to join NATO now:
> 
> 
> 
> Kosovo parliament urges government to start NATO membership bid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neutral Finland, Sweden Warm To Idea Of NATO Membership
> 
> 
> Through the Cold War and the decades since, nothing could persuade Finns and Swedes that they would be better off joining NATO — until Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.huffpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian economy took a hit from the sanctions imposed on it by USA in 2014 - dropped from 5th spot to 11th spot in the (2014 - 2021) period. This was the situation when much of Europe was supporting Russia all along.
> 
> But things are changing now - and fast.
> 
> You mentioned CIPS but is it good enough to rescue Russian economy by itself? It will be a lifeline at most. Fairly good explanation in following article:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘No desire to pay’: China’s manufacturers feel the pain of Ukraine crisis
> 
> 
> China is the largest trading partner of both Russia and Ukraine, but sanctions from the US and its European allies have started to be felt by customers in both countries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.scmp.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this:
> 
> _“Both the US and UK financial sanctions against Russia will lead to an increase in the volume of yuan transactions in terms of Russian-Chinese trade. This may be one reason for the strong yuan, but a strong yuan is bad news for China’s export sector,” Zheng said._
> 
> More:
> 
> 
> 
> Russia can’t use cryptos on a broad scale to evade sanctions: Experts
> 
> 
> 
> Europe is in search for alternative to Russian gas in Africa:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/europe-could-reduce-imports-of-russian-gas-by-more-than-a-third-in-a-year-iea-0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AZA Finance FX Week Ahead: Russia trade war puts African gas in focus
> 
> 
> As Vladimir Putin’s war in Ukraine continues to intensify and Western sanctions on Russia mount, so the likelihood increases of Moscow retaliating by shutting off its gas supply to European markets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thebftonline.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.ippmedia.com/en/features/europe-can-look-africa%C2%A0-preferred-gas-supplier
> 
> 
> 
> LNG also stepping up its game:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Energy group safeguarding Europe’s LNG supply
> 
> 
> An association of 84 companies involve in global liquefied natural gas (LNG) trade is working to ensure that a stable supply of LNG remains available as the Russia-Ukraine conflict continues to escalate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gasworld.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let us not delude ourselves - some of the greatest minds are in the Western hemisphere.
> 
> The rules of game will change for all involved. China will also have to come to terms with appreciation in Yuan in coming years. There are trade-offs.


Good point about the effect of an appreciating Yuan. But it have to be a sustained appreciation for industries to move out. It may happen if Ukrainian occupation continues for a few years.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Dragons said:


> I hate that bitxht called Tulsi she is extremely cringeworthy please refrain from posting anything with her in here she triggers my cringe-levels



She is well-informed. I personally don't care about personalities but the content of their message. I understand she kisses the feet of the Modi, but in this instance, she was on the point.

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## JonAsad

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499391505051443205


ukraine will be buffer state, not a russian one.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499403143204859904

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## Paul2

Dragons said:


> China has formidble alliance in the east Pakistan-IEA-Uzbekistan-Turkmenistan-North Korea


----------



## LeGenD

Wood said:


> Good point about the effect of an appreciating Yuan. But it have to be a sustained appreciation for industries to move out. It may happen if Ukrainian occupation continues for a few years.


Europe is looking for alternative to Russian gas supply in Africa. This will pave way for some African countries to grow and prosper.

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## sammuel

dBSPL said:


> Lavrov: We do not rule out that some others wanted Russia to get bogged down in this factitious conflict created by the West.



Seriously , like someone forced you to enter Ukraine.

Also no one believes that Russia entered Ukraine to fight Nazis :









Want to throw out ‘neo-Nazi’ regime in Ukraine, says Russian foreign minister Lavrov


Russia invaded Ukraine as it wanted to throw out the “neo-Nazi” regime, foreign minister Sergei Lavrov said on Friday, adding that Kremlin is ready for talks if the Ukraine military surrenders. “Putin took the decision to conduct a special military operation to demilitarise and de-Nazify...




www.wionews.com

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## nang2

LeGenD said:


> Europe is looking for alternative to Russian gas supply in Africa. This will pave way for some African countries to grow and prosper.


Good luck with environmentalists.


----------



## Dragons

Paul2 said:


>



We could save china. Pakistan could theorically save the Panda


----------



## Clutch

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499341236154609666



Why isn't the media calling a spade a spade....????? They are trying best not to say Ukrainian Nazi ... 

When it comes to middle Eastern conflicts... its Islamic terrorist this Islamic terrorist that....

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## newb3e

Paul2 said:


> Wow, a they sent a ducking general into the field? This is either desperation, or extreme incompetence.
> 
> Or... maybe they shot him themselves


or this is brit tabloid with bs news!


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Dragons said:


> Tulsi is the definition of cringeworthy because if you are an American why not support the American way of life.. She is a rotten apple that has betrayed her own people and she is even useless at that nor a good person



She is a native Hawaiian.


----------



## srshkmr

The Eagle said:


> Imagine, how risky these guys are for international politics and war.


Well unlike them the diplomats are efficient. I stopped watching news altogether too much drama.


----------



## Dragons

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> She is a native Hawaiian.



She should be arrested


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499410808136077312


----------



## jhungary

*Russia – Ukrainian War 2022

Day 7 Update

Introduction*

as stated before, I will write another write up on the 7th day of the war, because today will be a major milestone of an initial war, and the 7th day mark is always a good indicator as how both side fare and what would happen latter on.

This article will deal with matter that’s purely military, not the BS take from either side political. I tried to be as neutral as possible in this write up and just look at the military decision made up to this point as a former Military Officer myself.

*CURRENT SITUATION*






This is the current tactical map as of 1700 03/03/2022 AEST

As the map suggested, Russian gain are largely unchanged since day 4. With the exception of some small city (Berdiansk, Melitopo) Kherson is in doubt as of the time of writing. While Mariupol and Kharkiv is still under siege, and Kyiv is about to.

That suggested a 96-120 hours delay of the objective on the Russian side, and that is a serious delay on the time table and this is, in my opinion, is going to affect the long term strategic goal for Russia negatively.

Also worth notice that the Russian vector of invasion does not cover all the rural area, so that may have a detrimental effect on Russia’s war goal, that mean the spearhead can be attacked and flanked and the route of advance is not completely secure

What is cleared to see also is the method of operation has changed from the original multi-pronged surgical fast strike into more of a siege warfare. With Russia laying siege on several Ukrainian cities (At this point, Kharkiv and Mairupol)

*TACTICAL ANALYSIS*

Tactically the Russian have the upper hand, with their invasion vector largely be able to carry out what they were planned to carry out without much resistance, resistance, however, is expected in heavily populated city center.

On Russian part, the pressure is building around major city such as Kharkiv and Kyiv, and hopefully delivers a decisive blow to the Ukrainian government. The center of gravity is still Kyiv, which would have been the first or second day objective, now 7 days in, the city still stand

On Ukrainian part, the tactical situation is that they do not have enough people (trained people, not Territorial Defence Force) to defend every inch of the country, and the Ukrainian are poised to defend every major city, and probably using smaller city and vita infrastructure as point of delay attack.

Russia route of advance also speak volume, the multi-axis attack aimed at destablising the Ukrainian government has stymied, with advance now slow in the north and east, while the southern advance is the only advance that see some territorial gain. Which suggesting the Russian is focusing on cutting the coastline from Ukraine. And to do that, two major cities have to be taken. Odessa and Mauripol, as of now, both remain in Ukrainian hand.

On the other hand, the Russia tactics seems to be trying to divided the country by pinning the majority of Ukrainian regular troop in the East (with the greatest concentration, 6 Brigade and the West and isolate the North to South Axis, which is where most of the fight as of now, took place.

*STRATEGIC ANALYSIS*

First of all, several strategic mistake were committed on both side

*Ukrainian Mistake*

The prime mistake the Ukrainian made is the ignoring of US/UK intelligence that Russia is going to invade as early as November 2021. Had Ukrainian act on the US/UK intelligence and mobilise in November 2021, they could have doubled the effective Military size, given the training and equipment to arm them would have provided within that 3 months. (Bear in mind US Army basic infantry course is just 13 weeks) This will make the Russian advance a lot harder.

Another issue I have found with how Ukrainian conduct its warfare is that I don’t think the Ukrainian have effectively used the rural area at all, If you look at the vector of advance, those area are unguarded, which mean a single mobile Brigade utilising the rural area would have detrimental effect on the Russian advance. Take the 40 mile convoy for example, a mobile brigade moving between area would have caused havoc in these slow moving convoy in a series of hit and run. However, Ukrainian, also using former Soviet Union tactics, (basically what we see here is Russia fighting Russia) dictate static defence, the “never give an inch” style last stand defence.

Inability to defend or denied Russia use of key infrastructure. The first stage of battle see Russia try to invade south thru the forest area and got beaten down by Ukrainian defence, and only finding undefended roadway to travel, numerous time we can see the local, not military ( from the video of the man offer to tow the Russian BMP to numerous civilian crowded the advancing Russian on the street) Sure, As I said there are not enough troop to lay ambush but that does not mean they cannot deploy delay action or rear guard action on those Russian, or at the very lease “Mined” the area, which I know for sure the road is not mined because civilian still use it for travel (either that or Ukrainian really have some balls)

*Russian Mistake*

Logistics – A great USMC general once said “Amateur talks Tactics, Professional study Logistic” (Which would make me an Amateur)…. Anyway, logistic is probably *THE* problem the Russian military is facing at this point. A I mentioned day 7 is crucial because that would be the time when your original LOGPAK runs out and you are going to look for FARP or Forward Fuel Depot for gas. This is exactly what the 40 mile convoy supposed to do, only that they are stuck on the way to Kyiv, they were supposed to be in Kyiv, ALREADY by now. I don’t know what you see in that 40 mile convoy, for me it spell under prepare. First, you don’t run anything that long, that slow inside the enemy territories and front line. That is a prime target. Second, a 40 mile convoy means they are depending on trucks to resupply, this would be okay for what we called “general store” item such as toilet paper, replacing clothing or furniture, but not Priority item such as food, ammunition and gas. Those are brought in by air. Which bring me to mistake number 2

Russia has NOT achieved total superiority. 7 days in, we can still see aerial engagement between the two country, Drone are continue to fly as usual, not too many airfield is captured by the VDV (In fact, they had only capture one, Antonov Airfield but we still getting unconfirmed report stating they are still fighting in there. Compare to OIF, 173 ABN Brigade took Bashur on day 5, and turn it to logistic hub for the eventual Battle for Baghdad, British Captured Basra International Airport on day 4. It is one thing not to be able to neutralise enemy air power, but another thing not to Capture and turn the airfield into use on future engagement. Judging from the dependence of ground convoy, Russia are either unable or unwilling to use airport as a supply route. Which mean long traffic jam and people don’t know where they are going. And I don’t see a red ball system here.

Initial Miscalculation, what almost everyone expected when Russian started this war is that they are going to break Ukraine as a matter of days, not weeks. NATO did not supply Ukraine weapon and other supply until day 4 suggesting NATO planner think they are going to fold in the first 3 days, and do so only realise they are still within their reasonable parameter of resistance. So why this is like this? For starter, I think Russia seriously underestimated Ukrainian Warfighting capability, this is what I will think because I myself don’t think Ukrainian would put up such as fight. On another ends, we see Russian using inadequate and sometime unmotivated troop to fight the war. War is a nasty business, who you choose for your campaign matter as much as the campaign itself. During D-Day, Omar Bradley specifically requested 1st Infantry division and the Ranger to start the initial phase and a fresh division to support the first wave, that being the first (division) and the Ranger is battle harden and they know what to do, and they need people who are motivated s a fresh division is needed. War does not just fight with random troop you pick up from a random corner of your battlefield; you choose your troop especially for the task. This is NOT done on the Russian part. Which lead to the initial miscalculation.

Multi-Axis Advance, I get it, the initial goal is Kyiv, and the Port city is important too. But the use of multi-axis advance, something very apparent that Russia have no idea how to operate and how to support is an issue, and if you try to attack everywhere at once, and you ended up failing to reach anywhere. If you want Kyiv, concentration your firepower on Kyiv, and then move toward other city along your axis of advance, sure, you can station your force somewhere and pin down enemy concentration, but do so with a more decisive manner. And not committed half the troop here and half the troop there and hoping you can get there on time.

*Strategic Limitation*

For Ukraine, that’s manpower. Sure, Ukraine has a 45 million population but their available force is just north of 200,000, which mean anyone who are conscript into TDF, they are expected to fight with local garrison and defend their city as a sort of general mobilisation. The tradition Western response to Soviet Tactics is to use a mobile force that can manoeuvre in an around the giant Russia spearhead, once the giant Russian force pin you down, then you are fighting the Russian fight, and mostly game over. And you can’t do that if you only have 200,000 troop know what to do for the entire country

TDF is to bolster the city defence, they are useless as an offensive force, and they also cannot function alone as a defensive force. They are only a supplement.

For Russia, that’s time. The longer it drag on, the more money, manpower and resource intensive the war get, and Russia is running out on all 3. With Russian sanction, and domestic pressure on the war, any sort of “mobilisation” are going to meet resistance, you cannot mobilise unless the public is willing to be mobilised. And with sanction, that is going to hurt Russian capability to pay for material and import material to replace lost, which mean the further it got drag on, the harder for Russia to replace their lost. In effect, you are losing Warfighting Power as time goes by.

*RUSSIAN ENDGAME




*

While it’s too early to tell, but by looking at the axis of advance and the preparation and strategic opearation, the end game for Russia is cut the country in half thru a line between Mairupol to Dnipro then to Kyiv (as picture) along with the south end to the west to cover the entire coast, Russia will administer the area left of demarcation line (effectively become Russia territories) and the rest will be administrated by a Russian installed Ukrainian government.

End game is a regime change, with Russian install a government to control Ukraine. With the possible southern end (thru Kherson and Odessa) to be used as a springboard for future territorial gain in Moldova.

*PREDICTION*

This is still too early to call, before this start I can tell you with 100% certainty that Russia will achieve what they set to achieve, however, now? I am not too sure, I gave the chance of Ukrainian survival 10% on day 4, on day 7, I think the chances improved a bit, I will say Ukrainian have 15-20% chance to defeat the Russian. Because from what I see on the map, the result is far from certain.

If we look at the map, the battle plan and end games depends on several factors, which Russia still has not show they have achieve that even after day 7. The country side is still largely untouched, which means Ukrainian only need to have 1 hand defeated or rendered ineffective, the entire situation would have been turn against Russia. And the black arrow on the maps suggest Russian force axis of advance is prone to getting flank, and if Ukraine can somehow disengage some troop (Maybe a Brigade) to conduct mobile warfare, that would hamper those advance shown in black arrow. On the other hand, US Intelligence suggested that Russia have used 75% of the invasion force, which mean they are running out of tactics reserve, which mean they cannot afford any error, both strategic or tactical. Otherwise, it would have to dip into their strategic reserve, which I don’t know if they have any

On the other hand, if the end game is what I predicted, then Russia would need to take 5 key cities (Mariupol, Odessa, Dnipro, Kyiv and Kharkiv.) None of the 5 were fallen. And Odessa and Dnipro is largely Untouched too. The only one close to falling is Mariupol and Kharkiv but we have been saying this for days. So all these are uncertainty. What’s more? Russia is running out of time. Tradition battle would require a Logistic Update every 7 days, and I don’t see any FARP set up for the first 7, which mean the troop in the frontline is running on empty, and the frontline troop itself needs to be replace every 28 days, you can extend it if you have momentum but Russia lost that in the first 7 days, which mean again, as I said, if by day 21, if all of the key objective is not taken, then there will be a problem, and day 21 is only 13 days away. Can they really do that seeing the first 7 days progress?

Another issue I foresee is that now Russia revert to plan B (or Plan A if you think they should have done it initially), siege warfare and massive artillery bombardment would antagonise Civil Population, you don’t make friend by bombing their home. Which make the future plan for Moscow to install a puppet government in doubt, unless there are continue Russian occupation outside their annexation zone. Which mean insurgent warfare, which will turn Moscow position even more untenable

Future insurgency is also a problem, I am very sure (90%) that Russia will not or cannot occupied the entire country, which mean some part of Ukraine have to be delegated by a unpopular puppet regime (I don’t think there are any doubt no one in Ukraine will support that regime, seeing how far they go to defend Ukraine from Russia) which mean Russia theoretically need to conquer or occupy some part in the West to counter the future insurgency, and given they did not achieve any of their key objective on the first 7, unlikely they are going to get all of them by day 14 and slightly possible for the Russian to go beyond 21 days, it’s virtually impossible at this point the Russian have any ability to wage war simultaneously in the western part of the country, which will make it rebellion central.

And finally, can Russia even lasted that long? Russian economy is, in no other word, crumbing, Russia Rouble lost 30% of value toward USD and other currency due to sanction and despite Russian central bank emergency measure to propped up the currency, which mean they have s far failed to do that, and I can’t see they can ever do that unless China help them, which I don’t currently see this is what Chinese is doing (Hence the freefall) and wonder if China will ever do it in the first place. You need money to keep the war going, and money run dry by day unless you can somehow replenish it, and I failed to see how Russia is going to get the economy back up.

*FAQ

Why Russia invasion did not make any head way?*

Numerous factor, the most clear is they either miscalculated Ukrainian response, or underestimated Ukrainian ability to defend their country. Either way, this is a strategic error by Russia. Another factor is that they somehow failed to gain Air Superiority over Ukraine, and most likely Russia underestimate EU response to the conflict I Ukraine. EU literally goes all out to help the Ukrainian.

*Why Russia did not attack Ukrainian Infrastructure.*

This is a good question, many people think that is because Putin have softside with Ukraine, want to leave it untouched as much as possible and easier for them to take over. But if this is the end goal, then a political invasion would be used, and no an actual invasion, you don’t invade people to see if they want to surrender. You invade someone to fight someone, it’s no point BSing yourself or anyone else.

The reason why those item (TV, Radio Station and Power Station) is simple, it no longer a factor. I mean since when is the last time you watch TV? Or Listening to Radio. Today information is all about internet and social media, and while Russia did try to shut down Ukrainian Internet and then Ukrainian switch to Satellite Internet thanks to Elon Musk. Unless Russia send some missile and bring down some Space X satellite, they are not going to take out Ukrainian Internet. Notice that most of Zelenskyy present is social media, since the war start, he is frequently seen on Twitter and Telegram or other social media network. Which mean the value of striking the TV stationor Radio Station have decreased multiple fold since the advance of social media technology and as I said, you cannot shut down Ukrainian internet.

Power on the other had is tricky, bear in mind Ukraine is mostly powered by 5 Nuclear Power Station that was already fuctioning, which mean you cannot bomb them or you are risking a nuclear incident, so the only viable option is to take them by force, which they took 1, Chernobyl, which is off line anyway. Nuclear Power Plant in Khmelnytskyi, Rivne, Yuzhnoukrainsk and Enerhodar thus continue to provide Ukrainian with power. That probably is the true reason why those are untouched.

*Are there any chance Ukrainian could win? *

Theoretically, no In Reality? Not sure, first of all, we know two things for sure, the only way for this war to stop is for Russian to stop, Second thing we know is there are not enough Russian troop to occupy the entire country.

So what does that translate to? Even if Ukrainian lost all their major city, that does not mean it’s game over for them, unlike Russian Operation in Syria, this is not done with majority support of the country (Assad held at least 60% of Syria when Russia intervene, the 2 rebel region hold less than 7%) Which mean you are looking at insurgency and continual resistance. Plus EU already announced that they will finance Ukrainian expense, which will make Ukraine look like Soviet Adventure in Afghanistan.

This is going to be hard for Russia, especially with sanction applies. 

*What is Russia Political or Strategic Gain? *

You have to get something in a war, be it money, oil, gold or salt (If you are talking about Roman time) This have no strategic gain other than try to control Ukraine. I am not sure Russia can holdout even if Russia annexed Eastern Ukraine, again, it’s about personal gain more than National Gain. Putin in his mind think Ukraine belong to him with all the Russian rhetoric, but that does not mean so, and there are no Political gain for him either, because the “Political” goal is to push NATO border away from Russia, but what Putin is doing by invading and at least annexing Southern Half of Ukraine is Push the border into NATO, which relatively is the same thing but instead of the 2 NATO member country that border him before (Latvia and Estonia), now is 4 (Latvia, Estonia, Romania and Poland) and may even be 5 if Finland join NATO.

In effect, what Putin is doing is “extending” the border he is facing with NATO. On the other hand, even if he wins, he is looking at the situation of a status quo, only to wind back to 2014. So I don’t actually see any Strategic or Political gain Russia have come out of this.

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## Iñigo



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## Patriot forever

On a lighter note.. probably explains why Russia is not taking off the gloves in cities. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499262573409091589

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## zartosht

Vergennes said:


> "All you see" is a T80BVM which is only in Russian army's inventory. You always come with the "muh do you have a proof it beloned to russians" when the vast majority of equipments shown aren't in ukrainian army inventory or when they are,in different versions.
> 
> You can't just accept the fact the "world's second most powerful" army is showing pathetic performances in the Ukrainian conflict and that the number of hardware destroyed or abandoned is astonishing. It was the army that supposed to take europe within 48 hours,seeing their performance even the Polish army could 1v1 them.



Russia sees the people of ukraine as its own. Anything that gets destroyed it must repair itself. 

And despite western propagand… anybody with a shred of credibility will tell you Russia is really holding back to avoid civilin casualties. 

This will not be the case for poland. Possibly a bigger nazi/racist country then ukraine. RUSSIA WILL ABSOLUTLY POUND EVERY SINGLE POLISH AREA OF RESISTANCE INTO THE GROUND. They will get carpet bombed into the stone ages. Their cities will all look like berlin may 1945.

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## jhungary

Okay, this is it for me, I am out of here again, I will come back in 7 days (not to make another update) to post the 2 article I wrote on Day 4 and Day 7 on the TTA forum so people can discuss the issue if they want instead of leaving here. And I will also decide whether I will come back here either full time or part time. Anyway. I will see you when I see you,

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## dBSPL

HAARETZ Opinion | The Biggest Winner in Ukraine So Far: Turkey’s Erdogan








The biggest winner in Ukraine so far: Turkey’s Erdogan | Opinion | Opinion


***




www.haaretz.com





They wrote that he implemented a balancing policy that was appreciated by both sides, and that he had the opportunity to improve relations with the West.

There are also many side benefits such as: 
- Understanding the importance of the Southern Gas Corridor by EU 
- Some critical ITAR free systems obtained from Ukraine

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## Dragons

Patriot forever said:


> On a lighter note..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499262573409091589



A Russian invader singing about ''Free Donbass'' To Russian ethnics of Ukraine and there was an old woman who teared up in the video listening to this


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## zartosht

For all the angry poles who hate muslims. This is how they were treated when they escaped a genocide into an evil muslim country






This is despite the fact that Iranians themselves suffered a brutal famine imposed by the occupying genocidal “allied army”. They still treated them like Iranians usually treat their guests..

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## dBSPL

Russia says it will not finish the operation until the current government surrenders or establishes military control over all of Ukraine. The assumptions that the Dinieper river is considered the natural boundary can only be Russian's -worst case- plan.

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## jhungary

Wood said:


> Putin is too young to retire. He has tabled changes to Russian constitution that would effectively help him remain President until mid 2030s.
> 
> I think Putin's Ukraine invasion is an ideological war. He wants to bring back the Soviet Union before his retirement and does not care about how many bodies he has to step over for that to happen. Political suicide is only possible if an average Russian on the street is reduced to a pauper and the rich in Russia reduced to middle class. The west really needs to find long term alternatives for Russian energy imports. Even then, China will keep Russia on life support.


But then this is a non-starter as with his demand of NATO. He can never roll back former Russia territories unless he is risking to go nuclear on NATO. And that is a no go and Russia WILL lost a conventional engagement with NATO (I think they will lose to US alone) and possible further disbanding the country if this is what he wanted

As I explained before, China probably will not hold Russian hand indefinitely and sure, free oil and gas for loan maybe, you are talking about 100-200 billions dollars, not 1.4 trillions every year There are no way China is going to swallow the entire Russia economy, as this is going to be a blackhole for the Chinese, money only going in and not coming out.

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## sammuel

lamdacore said:


> I wanted to reply here for several days but my personal affairs got in the way. Anyhow, much has happened since when I first wanted to write but still relevant as my understanding is with respect to Putin's strategy.
> 
> Right now, there is a massive disinformation campaign against Russia. I for one believe that Russia had to act at some point and this is quite understandable. Putin has been appealing to the US and the rest of Europe to not put him in this situation. Although the West emerged victorious from the cold war, it failed to disband Nato which was no longer needed. But sometimes politics loves to keep such organisation alive for one reason or the other.
> 
> With its core purpose dead i.e. to stand up to the Soviet Union, the West needed a reason to keep this going and it was not easy. How do you continue to fight when you are all alone and victorious? The US attempted to re-purpose its role in Afghanistan and we all know how that turned out. Twenty plus years and nothing to show for it. Despite the slogans the West throws, they are for internal consumption only and they are never sincere with them. The will do away with them when it best serves them. This naked hypocrisy is on full display and it is evident that it was pent up and building for this very moment.
> 
> Anyhow, Putin did try to befriend Europe and did open up Russia to the West. Credit should be given where it is due. But it was his bad luck or misery that the West just did not want to be Russia's friend. Instead, the West provoked, as they always do, despite Putin's appeal not to do so. Putin persisted and sought ways to resolve these things diplomatically. However, the West just never wanted to settle for a simple diplomatic solution, they were not done to continue stomping on the successor of the Soviet Union...a "I spit on your grave" angle.
> 
> So, the US and allies planned, they always wanted to hurt Russia and never wanted to be friends with it. They wanted to break up Russia further because, lets face it, it was still a formidable state with an arsenal that could hurt the US.
> 
> The West schemed and planned for this very day and encroached bit by bit trying so that Russia could take the bait. And Russia took it.
> 
> Now, you may think that this is an unfortunate situation for Russia but it is not. Having observed Putin, he is one of the world's most talented leaders and delivers when least expected. He planned just as the West did. What we see now is his plan in motion and it is easy to dismiss it as a failure based on the disinformation campaign.
> 
> Putin trialled the West response with the annexation of Crimea. This was the watershed moment for Russia. This was the time to call bluff on Nato and its allies. They made a lot of noise and failed. This was a warning to Ukraine to not challenge Russia any further. Since 2014 till 2022 i.e. eight years is what it took for Putin to exhaust all options with the West while preparing new options with the East.
> 
> Putin did not take the bait, he has made a calculated move against a move the West played years ago. To the West, Putin has taken the bait and is unleashing its strategy based on that. Unfortunately for the West, this is not the 80s or 90s anymore. The days are gone when the leader "of the free world" would instantaneously command all democracies to fall in line against USSR. Russia, has done well to open up and deal with several democracies, it has crept in and on them and addressed their interests. It has fractured that alliance which is now getting tested.
> 
> Russia has played its cards pretty well. It is the one of the largest producers of Oil and Gas. Its major market is Europe. It has integrated with the western system, a ploy to play by their rules to be accepted, to be let in. It knows that severe sanctions can and will be imposed upon it
> 
> Lets now see where Russia stands:
> 
> 1) The war in Ukraine does not end the demand for oil & gas. The price per barrel has shot up and may well go higher. Can the West afford such high oil prices? The US may be delighted but it will not give charity.
> 2) Cutting Russia off Swift is a double edged sword. Yes, it will affect Russia's interest in Europe but what if this pushes Russia to adopt CIPS instead? This will be a profound change and will give Putin immense leverage and the stick to break Nato.
> 
> Now, imagine a scenario:
> 
> The West has cut Russia off completely, and thoroughly sanctioned. Russia, stops the flow of Oil & Gas and food production to the West. The price oil per barrel is now $130 and every oil producer is merry except Russia.
> 
> Then Russia announces it is selling oil at $80 per barrel via CIPS. What do you think will happen? Germany, Turkey and others will be keen to get their hands on this oil. But they are part of the Western bloc and staunch Nato members. They decide to find a way around the current sanctions and start trading.
> 
> Eventually, every Western country finds out and this brings about disunity in Nato's ranks. Clearly, it will be obvious that Russia is not the USSR but a country that is selling cheaper oil. Its all a matter of interests for the western countries at the end of the day. This will effectively shatter Nato.
> 
> 
> This is just an example of what is to come. The time and era is gone for Nato. The western sanctions and dominance is near its end. This is going to hasten that. Putin has gambled and placed the bait and the west has happily taken it thinking they are outsmarting Putin. Time will tell who is the ultimate loser.
> 
> Emotions are high for the west and common sense is absent. Let the war go on for some more days and weeks, then it will no longer be headlines. Ukraine will slip into the background and the momentum in disinformation will be lost. When the effects of sanctions on Russia are felt back home, many Western countries will break rank and file. That is when Nato will be finished and Putin would have won.



Putin was offered all he wanted to stop this.

With a flick of his finger he could have spared millions of refugees , who knows how many lives and how many ruined cities. 

But he thought this world crises is what the world needed after two years of corona virus .

Fail to see the admiration.

~

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## Wood

LeGenD said:


> Europe is looking for alternative to Russian gas supply in Africa. This will pave way for some African countries to grow and prosper.


Yes, I've read about this too. Apparently, infrastructure is not ready for that. Building that could take years. North America should be pumping more from Canada and US. The Republicans are right for once. Oil dependency will not just disappear in near future.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499402360782610437


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## dBSPL



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## jamahir

zartosht said:


> Russia sees the people of ukraine as its own. Anything that gets destroyed it must repair itself.
> 
> And despite western propagand… anybody with a shred of credibility will tell you Russia is really holding back to avoid civilin casualties.
> 
> This will not be the case for poland. Possibly a bigger nazi/racist country then ukraine. RUSSIA WILL ABSOLUTLY POUND EVERY SINGLE POLISH AREA OF RESISTANCE INTO THE GROUND. They will get carpet bombed into the stone ages. Their cities will all look like berlin may 1945.



Though your first two paragraphs are correct I think the underlined in the third para will be disagreed by @Piotr who's from Poland.

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## Wood

jhungary said:


> But then this is a non-starter as with his demand of NATO. He can never roll back former Russia territories unless he is risking to go nuclear on NATO. And that is a no go and Russia WILL lost a conventional engagement with NATO (I think they will lose to US alone) and possible further disbanding the country if this is what he wanted
> 
> As I explained before, China probably will not hold Russian hand indefinitely and sure, free oil and gas for loan maybe, you are talking about 100-200 billions dollars, not 1.4 trillions every year There are no way China is going to swallow the entire Russia economy, as this is going to be a blackhole for the Chinese, money only going in and not coming out.


Ukraine is as far as Putin's political ambitions may go. Even that is a big win if he succeeds.

Agree with you about China's role in Russian economy. As I've said earlier, it is just a life support.

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> *Russia – Ukrainian War 2022
> 
> Day 7 Update
> 
> Introduction*
> 
> as stated before, I will write another write up on the 7th day of the war, because today will be a major milestone of an initial war, and the 7th day mark is always a good indicator as how both side fare and what would happen latter on.
> 
> This article will deal with matter that’s purely military, not the BS take from either side political. I tried to be as neutral as possible in this write up and just look at the military decision made up to this point as a former Military Officer myself.
> 
> *CURRENT SITUATION*
> View attachment 820443
> 
> 
> This is the current tactical map as of 1700 03/03/2022 AEST
> 
> As the map suggested, Russian gain are largely unchanged since day 4. With the exception of some small city (Berdiansk, Melitopo) Kherson is in doubt as of the time of writing. While Mariupol and Kharkiv is still under siege, and Kyiv is about to.
> 
> That suggested a 96-120 hours delay of the objective on the Russian side, and that is a serious delay on the time table and this is, in my opinion, is going to affect the long term strategic goal for Russia negatively.
> 
> Also worth notice that the Russian vector of invasion does not cover all the rural area, so that may have a detrimental effect on Russia’s war goal, that mean the spearhead can be attacked and flanked and the route of advance is not completely secure
> 
> What is cleared to see also is the method of operation has changed from the original multi-pronged surgical fast strike into more of a siege warfare. With Russia laying siege on several Ukrainian cities (At this point, Kharkiv and Mairupol)
> 
> *TACTICAL ANALYSIS*
> 
> Tactically the Russian have the upper hand, with their invasion vector largely be able to carry out what they were planned to carry out without much resistance, resistance, however, is expected in heavily populated city center.
> 
> On Russian part, the pressure is building around major city such as Kharkiv and Kyiv, and hopefully delivers a decisive blow to the Ukrainian government. The center of gravity is still Kyiv, which would have been the first or second day objective, now 7 days in, the city still stand
> 
> On Ukrainian part, the tactical situation is that they do not have enough people (trained people, not Territorial Defence Force) to defend every inch of the country, and the Ukrainian are poised to defend every major city, and probably using smaller city and vita infrastructure as point of delay attack.
> 
> Russia route of advance also speak volume, the multi-axis attack aimed at destablising the Ukrainian government has stymied, with advance now slow in the north and east, while the southern advance is the only advance that see some territorial gain. Which suggesting the Russian is focusing on cutting the coastline from Ukraine. And to do that, two major cities have to be taken. Odessa and Mauripol, as of now, both remain in Ukrainian hand.
> 
> On the other hand, the Russia tactics seems to be trying to divided the country by pinning the majority of Ukrainian regular troop in the East (with the greatest concentration, 6 Brigade and the West and isolate the North to South Axis, which is where most of the fight as of now, took place.
> 
> *STRATEGIC ANALYSIS*
> 
> First of all, several strategic mistake were committed on both side
> 
> *Ukrainian Mistake*
> 
> The prime mistake the Ukrainian made is the ignoring of US/UK intelligence that Russia is going to invade as early as November 2021. Had Ukrainian act on the US/UK intelligence and mobilise in November 2021, they could have doubled the effective Military size, given the training and equipment to arm them would have provided within that 3 months. (Bear in mind US Army basic infantry course is just 13 weeks) This will make the Russian advance a lot harder.
> 
> Another issue I have found with how Ukrainian conduct its warfare is that I don’t think the Ukrainian have effectively used the rural area at all, If you look at the vector of advance, those area are unguarded, which mean a single mobile Brigade utilising the rural area would have detrimental effect on the Russian advance. Take the 40 mile convoy for example, a mobile brigade moving between area would have caused havoc in these slow moving convoy in a series of hit and run. However, Ukrainian, also using former Soviet Union tactics, (basically what we see here is Russia fighting Russia) dictate static defence, the “never give an inch” style last stand defence.
> 
> Inability to defend or denied Russia use of key infrastructure. The first stage of battle see Russia try to invade south thru the forest area and got beaten down by Ukrainian defence, and only finding undefended roadway to travel, numerous time we can see the local, not military ( from the video of the man offer to tow the Russian BMP to numerous civilian crowded the advancing Russian on the street) Sure, As I said there are not enough troop to lay ambush but that does not mean they cannot deploy delay action or rear guard action on those Russian, or at the very lease “Mined” the area, which I know for sure the road is not mined because civilian still use it for travel (either that or Ukrainian really have some balls)
> 
> *Russian Mistake*
> 
> Logistics – A great USMC general once said “Amateur talks Tactics, Professional study Logistic” (Which would make me an Amateur)…. Anyway, logistic is probably *THE* problem the Russian military is facing at this point. A I mentioned day 7 is crucial because that would be the time when your original LOGPAK runs out and you are going to look for FARP or Forward Fuel Depot for gas. This is exactly what the 40 mile convoy supposed to do, only that they are stuck on the way to Kyiv, they were supposed to be in Kyiv, ALREADY by now. I don’t know what you see in that 40 mile convoy, for me it spell under prepare. First, you don’t run anything that long, that slow inside the enemy territories and front line. That is a prime target. Second, a 40 mile convoy means they are depending on trucks to resupply, this would be okay for what we called “general store” item such as toilet paper, replacing clothing or furniture, but not Priority item such as food, ammunition and gas. Those are brought in by air. Which bring me to mistake number 2
> 
> Russia has NOT achieved total superiority. 7 days in, we can still see aerial engagement between the two country, Drone are continue to fly as usual, not too many airfield is captured by the VDV (In fact, they had only capture one, Antonov Airfield but we still getting unconfirmed report stating they are still fighting in there. Compare to OIF, 173 ABN Brigade took Bashur on day 5, and turn it to logistic hub for the eventual Battle for Baghdad, British Captured Basra International Airport on day 4. It is one thing not to be able to neutralise enemy air power, but another thing not to Capture and turn the airfield into use on future engagement. Judging from the dependence of ground convoy, Russia are either unable or unwilling to use airport as a supply route. Which mean long traffic jam and people don’t know where they are going. And I don’t see a red ball system here.
> 
> Initial Miscalculation, what almost everyone expected when Russian started this war is that they are going to break Ukraine as a matter of days, not weeks. NATO did not supply Ukraine weapon and other supply until day 4 suggesting NATO planner think they are going to fold in the first 3 days, and do so only realise they are still within their reasonable parameter of resistance. So why this is like this? For starter, I think Russia seriously underestimated Ukrainian Warfighting capability, this is what I will think because I myself don’t think Ukrainian would put up such as fight. On another ends, we see Russian using inadequate and sometime unmotivated troop to fight the war. War is a nasty business, who you choose for your campaign matter as much as the campaign itself. During D-Day, Omar Bradley specifically requested 1st Infantry division and the Ranger to start the initial phase and a fresh division to support the first wave, that being the first (division) and the Ranger is battle harden and they know what to do, and they need people who are motivated s a fresh division is needed. War does not just fight with random troop you pick up from a random corner of your battlefield; you choose your troop especially for the task. This is NOT done on the Russian part. Which lead to the initial miscalculation.
> 
> Multi-Axis Advance, I get it, the initial goal is Kyiv, and the Port city is important too. But the use of multi-axis advance, something very apparent that Russia have no idea how to operate and how to support is an issue, and if you try to attack everywhere at once, and you ended up failing to reach anywhere. If you want Kyiv, concentration your firepower on Kyiv, and then move toward other city along your axis of advance, sure, you can station your force somewhere and pin down enemy concentration, but do so with a more decisive manner. And not committed half the troop here and half the troop there and hoping you can get there on time.
> 
> *Strategic Limitation*
> 
> For Ukraine, that’s manpower. Sure, Ukraine has a 45 million population but their available force is just north of 200,000, which mean anyone who are conscript into TDF, they are expected to fight with local garrison and defend their city as a sort of general mobilisation. The tradition Western response to Soviet Tactics is to use a mobile force that can manoeuvre in an around the giant Russia spearhead, once the giant Russian force pin you down, then you are fighting the Russian fight, and mostly game over. And you can’t do that if you only have 200,000 troop know what to do for the entire country
> 
> TDF is to bolster the city defence, they are useless as an offensive force, and they also cannot function alone as a defensive force. They are only a supplement.
> 
> For Russia, that’s time. The longer it drag on, the more money, manpower and resource intensive the war get, and Russia is running out on all 3. With Russian sanction, and domestic pressure on the war, any sort of “mobilisation” are going to meet resistance, you cannot mobilise unless the public is willing to be mobilised. And with sanction, that is going to hurt Russian capability to pay for material and import material to replace lost, which mean the further it got drag on, the harder for Russia to replace their lost. In effect, you are losing Warfighting Power as time goes by.
> 
> *RUSSIAN ENDGAME
> 
> View attachment 820442
> *
> 
> While it’s too early to tell, but by looking at the axis of advance and the preparation and strategic opearation, the end game for Russia is cut the country in half thru a line between Mairupol to Dnipro then to Kyiv (as picture) along with the south end to the west to cover the entire coast, Russia will administer the area left of demarcation line (effectively become Russia territories) and the rest will be administrated by a Russian installed Ukrainian government.
> 
> End game is a regime change, with Russian install a government to control Ukraine. With the possible southern end (thru Kherson and Odessa) to be used as a springboard for future territorial gain in Moldova.
> 
> *PREDICTION*
> 
> This is still too early to call, before this start I can tell you with 100% certainty that Russia will achieve what they set to achieve, however, now? I am not too sure, I gave the chance of Ukrainian survival 10% on day 4, on day 7, I think the chances improved a bit, I will say Ukrainian have 15-20% chance to defeat the Russian. Because from what I see on the map, the result is far from certain.
> 
> If we look at the map, the battle plan and end games depends on several factors, which Russia still has not show they have achieve that even after day 7. The country side is still largely untouched, which means Ukrainian only need to have 1 hand defeated or rendered ineffective, the entire situation would have been turn against Russia. And the black arrow on the maps suggest Russian force axis of advance is prone to getting flank, and if Ukraine can somehow disengage some troop (Maybe a Brigade) to conduct mobile warfare, that would hamper those advance shown in black arrow. On the other hand, US Intelligence suggested that Russia have used 75% of the invasion force, which mean they are running out of tactics reserve, which mean they cannot afford any error, both strategic or tactical. Otherwise, it would have to dip into their strategic reserve, which I don’t know if they have any
> 
> On the other hand, if the end game is what I predicted, then Russia would need to take 5 key cities (Mariupol, Odessa, Dnipro, Kyiv and Kharkiv.) None of the 5 were fallen. And Odessa and Dnipro is largely Untouched too. The only one close to falling is Mariupol and Kharkiv but we have been saying this for days. So all these are uncertainty. What’s more? Russia is running out of time. Tradition battle would require a Logistic Update every 7 days, and I don’t see any FARP set up for the first 7, which mean the troop in the frontline is running on empty, and the frontline troop itself needs to be replace every 28 days, you can extend it if you have momentum but Russia lost that in the first 7 days, which mean again, as I said, if by day 21, if all of the key objective is not taken, then there will be a problem, and day 21 is only 13 days away. Can they really do that seeing the first 7 days progress?
> 
> Another issue I foresee is that now Russia revert to plan B (or Plan A if you think they should have done it initially), siege warfare and massive artillery bombardment would antagonise Civil Population, you don’t make friend by bombing their home. Which make the future plan for Moscow to install a puppet government in doubt, unless there are continue Russian occupation outside their annexation zone. Which mean insurgent warfare, which will turn Moscow position even more untenable
> 
> Future insurgency is also a problem, I am very sure (90%) that Russia will not or cannot occupied the entire country, which mean some part of Ukraine have to be delegated by a unpopular puppet regime (I don’t think there are any doubt no one in Ukraine will support that regime, seeing how far they go to defend Ukraine from Russia) which mean Russia theoretically need to conquer or occupy some part in the West to counter the future insurgency, and given they did not achieve any of their key objective on the first 7, unlikely they are going to get all of them by day 14 and slightly possible for the Russian to go beyond 21 days, it’s virtually impossible at this point the Russian have any ability to wage war simultaneously in the western part of the country, which will make it rebellion central.
> 
> And finally, can Russia even lasted that long? Russian economy is, in no other word, crumbing, Russia Rouble lost 30% of value toward USD and other currency due to sanction and despite Russian central bank emergency measure to propped up the currency, which mean they have s far failed to do that, and I can’t see they can ever do that unless China help them, which I don’t currently see this is what Chinese is doing (Hence the freefall) and wonder if China will ever do it in the first place. You need money to keep the war going, and money run dry by day unless you can somehow replenish it, and I failed to see how Russia is going to get the economy back up.
> 
> *FAQ
> 
> Why Russia invasion did not make any head way?*
> 
> Numerous factor, the most clear is they either miscalculated Ukrainian response, or underestimated Ukrainian ability to defend their country. Either way, this is a strategic error by Russia. Another factor is that they somehow failed to gain Air Superiority over Ukraine, and most likely Russia underestimate EU response to the conflict I Ukraine. EU literally goes all out to help the Ukrainian.
> 
> *Why Russia did not attack Ukrainian Infrastructure.*
> 
> This is a good question, many people think that is because Putin have softside with Ukraine, want to leave it untouched as much as possible and easier for them to take over. But if this is the end goal, then a political invasion would be used, and no an actual invasion, you don’t invade people to see if they want to surrender. You invade someone to fight someone, it’s no point BSing yourself or anyone else.
> 
> The reason why those item (TV, Radio Station and Power Station) is simple, it no longer a factor. I mean since when is the last time you watch TV? Or Listening to Radio. Today information is all about internet and social media, and while Russia did try to shut down Ukrainian Internet and then Ukrainian switch to Satellite Internet thanks to Elon Musk. Unless Russia send some missile and bring down some Space X satellite, they are not going to take out Ukrainian Internet. Notice that most of Zelenskyy present is social media, since the war start, he is frequently seen on Twitter and Telegram or other social media network. Which mean the value of striking the TV stationor Radio Station have decreased multiple fold since the advance of social media technology and as I said, you cannot shut down Ukrainian internet.
> 
> Power on the other had is tricky, bear in mind Ukraine is mostly powered by 5 Nuclear Power Station that was already fuctioning, which mean you cannot bomb them or you are risking a nuclear incident, so the only viable option is to take them by force, which they took 1, Chernobyl, which is off line anyway. Nuclear Power Plant in Khmelnytskyi, Rivne, Yuzhnoukrainsk and Enerhodar thus continue to provide Ukrainian with power. That probably is the true reason why those are untouched.
> 
> *Are there any chance Ukrainian could win? *
> 
> Theoretically, no In Reality? Not sure, first of all, we know two things for sure, the only way for this war to stop is for Russian to stop, Second thing we know is there are not enough Russian troop to occupy the entire country.
> 
> So what does that translate to? Even if Ukrainian lost all their major city, that does not mean it’s game over for them, unlike Russian Operation in Syria, this is not done with majority support of the country (Assad held at least 60% of Syria when Russia intervene, the 2 rebel region hold less than 7%) Which mean you are looking at insurgency and continual resistance. Plus EU already announced that they will finance Ukrainian expense, which will make Ukraine look like Soviet Adventure in Afghanistan.
> 
> This is going to be hard for Russia, especially with sanction applies. What is Russia Political or Strategic Gain? You have to get something in a war, be it money, oil, gold or salt (If you are talking about Roman time) This have no strategic gain other than try to control Ukraine. I am not sure Russia can holdout even if Russia annexed Eastern Ukraine, again, it’s about personal gain more than National Gain. Putin in his mind think Ukraine belong to him with all the Russian rhetoric, but that does not mean so, and there are no Political gain for him either, because the “Political” goal is to push NATO border away from Russia, but what Putin is doing by invading and at least annexing Southern Half of Ukraine is Push the border into NATO, which relatively is the same thing but instead of the 2 NATO member country that border him before (Latvia and Estonia), now is 4 (Latvia, Estonia, Romania and Poland) and may even be 5 if Finland join NATO.
> 
> In effect, what Putin is doing is “extending” the border he is facing with NATO. On the other hand, even if he wins, he is looking at the situation of a status quo, only to wind back to 2014. So I don’t actually see any Strategic or Political gain Russia have come out of this.


Attacking power plants to disrupt the power supply seems to be a naive thought. Wouldn't it be easier to attack the power grid? It is usually very vulnerable due to the years spent on improving efficiency. One overloaded grid may cause cascading failures.


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## Dragons

dBSPL said:


> Russia says it will not finish the operation until the current government surrenders or establishes military control over all of Ukraine. The assumptions that the Dinieper river is considered the natural boundary can only be Russian's -worst case- plan.



So they want the whole country now and don't want to deal with them again by giving them some kind of buffer zone. The refugee numbers will be high as Ukraine hosts 44m before war almost 15m refugees is realistic estimation now. 

I can understand why they don't want buffer zone because they don't want round 2

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## Gripen9

GumNaam said:


> aaw no way dude, really? where exactly? Let's grab coffee sometime...🙂


Redmond. Sure Inshallah.


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## LeGenD

Patriot forever said:


> On a lighter note.. probably explains why Russia is not taking off the gloves in cities.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499262573409091589


Check footage and images of Kharkov, Mariupol and areas around Kyiv - lot of shelling and scenes of death and destruction in these locations. The gloves are off in these locations.

Do you think Russian army is on picnic? Putin wants results. The longer this war drags, the worse it will get for him.

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## nang2

Wood said:


> Ukraine is as far as Putin's political ambitions may go. Even that is a big win if he succeeds.
> 
> Agree with you about China's role in Russian economy. As I've said earlier, it is just a life support.


I doubt it is solely from Putin's political ambition. Russians have a different kind of mentality from the western europeans. One of many reasons why Europe doesn't accept Russia, instead, treat them like Tartars. The pressure from the west has always been there since Czar's era, which prompted Russia to alternate reform and being reactionary. A similar history is also repeated by Chinese.


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## RescueRanger

I’ve been sent some very disturbing footage of alleged UAF forces looting the corpses of Russian soldiers. 

The true reality of war.

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## Sayfullah

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499353203745431555Indians always embarrassing them selves

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## dBSPL

The Ukrainian ambassador, who could not gather the support he wanted from the Turkish public, is getting aggressive.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499378381577768972
"The meeting of the TÜRSAB President with us in the morning and later with Russia and Belarus is an indication of a two-faced policy. Placing the equal sign between aggressive Russia and self-defense Ukraine is complicity. We urge Ukraine travel agencies not to work with @tursaborgtr."


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## LeGenD

Word is that Russian troops (100 vehicles in total) have assaulted Enerhodar Town. This is massive force for a town.

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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> Attacking power plants to disrupt the power supply seems to be a naive thought. Wouldn't it be easier to attack the power grid? It is usually very vulnerable due to the years spent on improving efficiency. One overloaded grid may cause cascading failures.



How do you attack the power grid? Are you planning on blowing up every exchange station, every power pole and every inch of cable?? Even if you can do that, it will be repair pretty soon. 

In a traditional power plant, you bomb the plant continously so they stop generating electricity, on average, Egyptian Power plant was bomb ed 3 times during Yom Kippur War and North Vietnam power plant were on average bombed 5 times during the entire 10 years of war, some plant were bombed up to 20 times. 

You CAN'T do that on an active Nuclear Power Plant tho, that is the point.



Wood said:


> Ukraine is as far as Putin's political ambitions may go. Even that is a big win if he succeeds.
> 
> Agree with you about China's role in Russian economy. As I've said earlier, it is just a life support.


He can't get the whole Ukraine either, I am pretty sure even if he defeated the entire Ukrainian ground force, he have to leave it to his puppet regime to be in charge, and seeing how the Ukrainian fight, I don't think they are going to support a Pro-Russian government or Russian occupation, which will turn Ukraine into insurgency this is going to be bad for Russia.

And that is a big if they can do that.


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## AZMwi



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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> The Ukrainian ambassador, who could not gather the support he wanted from the Turkish public, is getting aggressive.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499378381577768972
> "The meeting of the TÜRSAB President with us in the morning and later with Russia and Belarus is an indication of a two-faced policy. Placing the equal sign between aggressive Russia and self-defense Ukraine is complicity. We urge Ukraine travel agencies not to work with @tursaborgtr."


Stay out of this brothers, this is not a quagmire your nation needs to get involved in. Please!

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> How do you attack the power grid? Are you planning on blowing up every exchange station, every power pole and every inch of cable?? Even if you can do that, it will be repair pretty soon.
> 
> In a traditional power plant, you bomb the plant continously so they stop generating electricity, on average, Egyptian Power plant was bomb ed 3 times during Yom Kippur War and North Vietnam power plant were on average bombed 5 times during the entire 10 years of war, some plant were bombed up to 20 times.
> 
> You CAN'T do that on an active Nuclear Power Plant tho, that is the point.


I understand the nuclear power plant part. That is why I explore the grid option. The goal is NOT to stop power transmission but to overload it, which, if works as planned, would cause cascading failures. This happened in US and Canada in 2003 and lasted for 4 days.


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## M.AsfandYar

Does somebody have any thoughts as to what will be the aftermath of this shit show vis a vis Manpads and ATGMS, mean the west is pumping 1000s per day into Ukraine and a shit ton of those are bound to be captured lost, this is war in the end, which means will be unaccounted for. It's hard enough fighting the retards without guided weapons, Or am i overthinking this? @RescueRanger your thoughts?

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## Dustom999

jhungary said:


> I see some "Smarties" trying to score some "Brownie" points here, see what I did there?
> 
> I did* NOT *say EU is at war with Russia. If it does, it's WW3.
> 
> I said EU is "*EFFECTIVELY*" at war with Russia, kind of like US is "*EFFECTIVELY*" at war with Germany in 1940 when they announced "Lend-Lease" policy to help UK. You are not at war, but once you had done that, you are no longer "neutral" in a party. Which in political term is described as "Hostile" as much as US declare RT and CGTN "AGENT OF A FOREIGN POWER" Were US officially at war with China or Russia then?.
> 
> Either learn to read or learn some basic politic before you go all CAPS and claims other people were wrong.


Ya! "Smarties" How can there be smarties when you are here! Afterall you got education in China, officer in us armed Forces, pretty much nationality of every nation that gets mentioned and pretty much planned all the wars US got into, in the mean time you gathered intelligence, investigated homicide, probably launched missiles too!
How can anyone else be a smarty! Afterall you are here!
I come from serving for a relatively short time, but i can confirm to you nothing humbles you like serving in difficult places!
I have seen you brag to civilians that they are not even worthy of debate because they haven't served!
For the record, pretty much all professional armies takes orders from civilians, execute them word to word. Use equipment invented, designed, build and manufactured by civilians. ( we all know how things turn up when low educated, gun welding chaps try their hands at invention and science in general).
And when they mess up things like making new system/ weapons/ doctrine they call upon civilians to assist ( clear up the mess) in form of consultants.
Now you are retired! You are a civilian. Don't have to be so arrogant.

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## Ich

LeGenD said:


> Europe is looking for alternative to Russian gas supply in Africa. This will pave way for some African countries to grow and prosper.



22 years ago Germany had the chance to switch to hydrogen economy, getting independent from all fossil fuels within 20 years. But at that time the same idiots were in gov as they are now and the opportunity was blocked cause of ideologie dumb thinking. Today the opportunity is here again, but the same hobos in gov do the same shit as back then.

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## vizier

Aesterix said:


> Pakistan refuses to vote Against Russia at UNGA, despite pressure from many Western countries.
> 
> View attachment 820202



Yellow does not mean those countries support the operation. It could have been solved by other means. However they have no other options and many of them are under threat by the other camp or they are traditional allies that need each other and taking sides at that stage would mean they can be left alone to be eaten by the other side which as we all know from previous conflicts knows no rules.
This condition however can change as the operations continue and civilian casualties mount. For example if the artillery starts leveling down Kiev next week or after high caliber artillery attacks start in major cities leveling them down many of those yellow will turn green in the next Un poll . Ukr cities are densely populated and civilians are armed by their govt as cannon fodder and possibly they are blocked from leaving. Yes there are groups with far right tendencies or similar but this does not mean indiscriminate bombing to a densely populated area. Also Usa bombing cities is not an excuse for Russia to imitate the same as two wrongs do not make one true. It will turn to be the future norm leveling down populated cities and nobody wants to support that idea in a future scenario against themselves and this will carry more weight than keeping alignment which is fragile as we all know while giving the voting decision in the next Un poll. The sanctions imposed by western countries also provoke Russia to do the operations faster and in a more destructive manner to finish it asap. Some sanctions need to be postphoned and there should be open doors that if agreement is reached between parties some sanctions will be lifted from Russia. Otherwise Russia would have too little choice left other than breaking the siege and enter Kiev to achieve objectives by force. The parties will need several weeks to negotiate after a ceasefire in my opinion.

Possible Ukr compromises.
-very strict IAEA control for no nukes.
-azov battalion and similar will be disbanded and wont be recreated
-signing guarantee document for no future nato appliance will be made
-donetsk luhansk regions recognized as fully autonomous in pre 2014 borders.
-Crimea recognized as Russian land

Russian compromises
-Baltic neutral states will possibly soon join nato. As this turned something like as proving their independence from Russia to their public. It will be hard to convince them otherwise after the conflict.
-Many of the sanctions wont be lifted . They will need to find alternative trade routes and rebuild economy and form new security pacts as nato will continue to expand its western borders

It seems both sides can claim that other side lost to gain points in next elections.


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## RescueRanger

The Chinese are buying out all Russian products online in support of Russian businesses:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498932535254040578

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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> I understand the nuclear power plant part. That is why I explore the grid option. The goal is NOT to stop power transmission but to overload it, which, if works as planned, would cause cascading failures. This happened in US and Canada in 2003 and lasted for 4 days.


That is a big if, and as I said, even "if" they can do it, it is easily repairable. What is the point to put the power out for 4 days, and then turn back on.

Also the Northeast Power Grid failure is a complicated issue, it is not simply one thing that failed and bring down the entire grid, it is the combination of failure, software glitch, and human error, this is a once of a lift time occasion, and you are saying the Russian can replicate that in Ukraine every 4 days until the war end?? That's well, impossible


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## dBSPL

RescueRanger said:


> Stay out of this brothers, this is not a quagmire your nation needs to get involved in. Please!


TR takes care to remain equal to both countries. The Ukrainian ambassador's career as a diplomat will probably end, or he will be far from TR. Instead of convincing the Turkish public, he made everyone more pro-Russian with his sassiness.

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## nang2

M.AsfandYar said:


> Does somebody have any thoughts as to what will be the aftermath of this shit show vis a vis Manpads and ATGMS, mean the west is pumping 1000s per day into Ukraine and a shit ton of those are bound to be captured lost, this is war in the end, which means will be unaccounted for. It's hard enough fighting the retards without guided weapons, Or am i overthinking this?


I doubt such an insurgent war would be as effective as the one in Afghanistan. The latter has lots of waste land where you can hide and strike. In Ukraine, it is a very fertile land and every inch is being cultivated. I was quite surprised to see it is largely covered by farm fields. Insurgent war would cause far more refugees since their fields are likely destroyed and it isn't safe for them to cultivate. But they have to eat.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499415002305994759

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## sammuel

dBSPL said:


> Russia says it will not finish the operation until the current government surrenders or establishes military control over all of Ukraine. The assumptions that the Dinieper river is considered the natural boundary can only be Russian's -worst case- plan.



This is more or less what Macron reported not long ago :

" Russian President Vladimir Putin told French leader Emmanuel Macron on Thursday that Russia would achieve the goals of its military intervention in Ukraine whatever happens, the Kremlin said. "









Putin tells Macron Russia will achieve its goals in Ukraine


Russian President Vladimir Putin told French leader Emmanuel Macron on Thursday that Russia would achieve the goals of its military intervention in Ukraine whatever happens, the Kremlin said.




www.reuters.com

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## RescueRanger

Dustom999 said:


> Ya! "Smarties" How can there be smarties when you are here! Afterall you got education in China, officer in us armed Forces, pretty much nationality of every nation that gets mentioned and pretty much planned all the wars US got into, in the mean time you gathered intelligence, investigated homicide, probably launched missiles too!
> How can anyone else be a smarty! Afterall you are here!
> I come from serving for a relatively short time, but i can confirm you nothing humbles you like serving in difficult places!
> I have seen you brag to civilians that they are not even worthy of debate because they haven't served!
> For the record, pretty much all professional armies takes orders from civilians, execute them word to word. Use equipment invented, designed, build and manufactured by civilians. ( we all know how things turn up when low educated, gun welding chaps try their hands at invention and science in general).
> And when they mess up things like making new system/ weapons/ doctrine they call upon civilians to assist ( clear up the mess) in form of consultants.
> Now you are retired! You are a civilian. Don't have to be so arrogant.


Well said and frankly I don’t care if someone is a peon or the pope, everyone should show mutual respect and courtesy to each other especially respect our rules that applies to everyone including so called “title holders” myself included.

If you are unhappy with someone or disagree, don’t reply or hit the ignore button, I know I’ve done that many times in this thread this week. 

Be nice, be kind, it costs nothing.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## nang2

jhungary said:


> That is a big if, and as I said, even "if" they can do it, it is easily repairable. What is the point to put the power out for 4 days, and then turn back on.
> 
> Also the Northeast Power Grid failure is a complicated issue, it is not simply one thing that failed and bring down the entire grid, it is the combination of failure, software glitch, and human error, this is a once of a lift time occasion, and you are saying the Russian can replicate that in Ukraine every 4 days until the war end?? That's well, impossible


First of all, I found it interesting that 4 days don't seem to be much to you while you claimed 96 hours delay would cause issues for Russians down the road.

Second, what happened in US/Canada in 2003 was in peace time. Ukraine has a war in their hands.

Third, it is quite strange that you imagine Russian would just simply replicate that failure. But you may be excused if you have little hacking knowledge.


----------



## M.AsfandYar

nang2 said:


> I doubt such an insurgent war would be as effective as the one in Afghanistan. The latter has lots of waste land where you can hide and strike. In Ukraine, it is a very fertile land and every inch is being cultivated. I was quite surprised to see it is largely covered by farm fields. Insurgent war would cause far more refugees since their fields are likely destroyed and it isn't safe for them to cultivate. But they have to eat.


I meant if they were smuggled out and beyond, i mean that is still in the realm of possibility. It did happen in Afghan war, as captured USSR weapons from 73 conflict made it into the hands of Mujahideen. The shitheads in the west never seem to learn their lessons.


----------



## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> TR takes care to remain equal to both countries. The Ukrainian ambassador's career as a diplomat will probably end, or he will be far from TR. Instead of convincing the Turkish public, he made everyone more pro-Russian with his sassiness.


Hahah, absolutely man. 👍

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## nang2

Ich said:


> 22 years ago Germany had the chance to switch to hydrogen economy, getting independent from all fossil fuels within 20 years. But at that time the same idiots were in gov as they are now and the opportunity was blocked cause of ideologie dumb thinking. Today the opportunity is here again, but the same hobos in gov do the same shit as back then.


What hydrogen economy? If that it is economical feasible, do you think only Germans can do that?

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## The SC

Gas prices in Europe smash previous day’s record​
European prices for natural gas spiked to nearly $2,280 per 1,000 cubic meters on Thursday for the first time in market history, as Russia’s military offensive in Ukraine continues.

Russia provides about 40% of the continent’s gas supplies, while Ukraine is a major transit country for Russian gas. With the conflict now in its eighth day, supply shortage concerns are pushing prices ever higher.

The April futures at the TTF hub in the Netherlands soared to around $2,279 per 1,000 cubic meters, or over €200 per megawatt-hour in household terms, hitting a record high, according to data from London’s ICE exchange.

The latest spike comes a day after prices surpassed the previous record, increasing from around $1,500 to $2,226 per 1,000 cubic meters on Wednesday.

The surge in prices follows a new round of sanctions imposed on Russia by the US and a number of its allies in response to Moscow's invasion of Ukraine. There are fears that Russia could cut off energy supplies to Europe in response.

https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/272354143/gas-prices-in-europe-smash-previous-days-record

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## nang2

M.AsfandYar said:


> I meant if they were smuggled out and beyond, i mean that is still in the realm of possibility. It did happen in Afghan war, as captured USSR weapons from 73 conflict made it into the hands of Mujahideen. The shitheads in the west never seem to learn their lessons.


Weapon wise, yes. Refugees are a different story.


----------



## sur

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499391505051443205



I think (correct me if wrong) that *Russians started to make a big issue* of "no _NATO along our borders_" *around 2014*.
While previous NATO countries bordering Russia happened *BEFORE *2014 (in *2004* as this tweet says).

It doesn't matter whether there was ever a formal promise from NATO of not expanding into Ukraine. It could very well be a one-sided demand by Russia, just like one-sided demand by USA about Cuba. Or it could be a promise made in private meetings that never was scribed into black and white.


*So anyone saying that*, "oh why Russia says we won't accept NATO expansion along our border, when they already have a couple of NATO countries bordering them", *needs to understand this timeline*.



Lets put that out in large font:



*2004 -vs- 2014*


*NATO bordering Russia -vs- No more please or we'll do sth about it like you reacted to Cuba*.





e.g.

(Source)


The Russian Foreign Ministry has made another statement about Ukraine: militants, NATO, provocations​THURSDAY, 27 FEBRUARY *2014*, 18:35


Russia's Foreign Ministry calls on the West, and *in particular NATO, to "refrain from provocative statements* and *respect Ukraine's non-aligned status*."

This is stated in a statement by the Russian Foreign Ministry on the situation in Ukraine, the text of which is posted on its website.

In it, Moscow states that the *agreement on resolving the crisis in Ukraine, signed on February 21*, this year. and certified by the foreign ministers of Germany, Poland and France, is still not being implemented.

"The *militants have not yet surrendered* their weapons, have not vacated administrative buildings, and are announcing their intention to" restore order "in all regions of Ukraine. There are threats of physical violence, as stated in today's statement by President Viktor Yanukovych," it said.

"The agreement on joint investigation of acts of violence has been forgotten, as well as the obligation to create a government of national unity. Instead, as stated on the Maidan, a" government of winners "is being created, which includes representatives of national extremists," Moscow said.

According to the statement, the forgotten agreements on constitutional reform, "which according to the February 21 Agreement must precede the presidential election. We are convinced that only such a constitutional framework that ensures the interests of all responsible political forces and all regions of Ukraine long-term ".

The* Foreign Ministry called on the West to realize its responsibility *for the implementation of this Agreement.

"We call on those foreign partners *who initially encouraged opposition protests*, initiated and supported the February 21 Agreement, to fully realize their responsibility for its implementation," the statement said.

The Kremlin has expressed readiness to cooperate with Western countries on Ukraine.

At the same time in the statement reproaches sounded.
"We emphasize that the calls of Western countries to Russia for cooperation on issues related to the situation in Ukraine have become more frequent. We proposed this long ago, long before the crisis entered a hot phase, but then colleagues were ready to do so," they said. in the Russian Foreign Ministry.

"However, we are ready to cooperate - with a clear understanding that it will be honest, based on the ability not only to negotiate, but also to implement agreements that must take into account the interests of all Ukrainian people and all partners of Ukraine," the Russian Foreign Ministry said. .

Fulfillment of obligations under the February 21 Agreement would be an important step in this direction, it said.

When NATO begins to consider the situation in Ukraine, it sends the wrong signal.* And the NATO Secretary General even said it was appropriate to say that "Ukraine's membership in NATO is not the most urgent priority of the Ukrainian leadership.*" "They are trying to solve for the Ukrainian people again," the Foreign Ministry said in a statement.

Russian diplomats did not hold back and said: "We strongly advise everyone to refrain from provocative statements and* respect the non-aligned status of Ukraine*, enshrined in its law" On the foundations of domestic and foreign policy. "

We will remind, on February 21 the Commissioner for Human Rights in the Russian Federation Vladimir Lukin, being at negotiations in Kiev on February 21 , refused to sign the Agreement on an exit from crisis to which the Russian Foreign Ministry appeals in the statement.

He said he did not understand who the "characters" were.

Ukrainian Pravda



I think *it could be these clauses* in 21-Feb-2014's agreement that Russia may be referring to when it *says no-NATO*:

"Withdrawal of heavy weapons by both sides.",
or "The government and the opposition will refrain from the use of force",
and "Withdrawal of foreign armed formations, military equipment, mercenaries."

i.e. if Ukraine joins NATO that will violate this clause in essence. By tilting the balance between pro & anti Russian Ukrainians.


----------



## nang2

RescueRanger said:


> The Chinese are buying out all Russian products online in support of Russian businesses:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498932535254040578


Or, it shows some difficult to restock their inventory.


----------



## Wood

RescueRanger said:


> The Chinese are buying out all Russian products online in support of Russian businesses:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498932535254040578


This is just a temporary fad. It will last for a long as the sanctions can.


----------



## The SC

sur said:


> I think (correct me if wrong) that *Russians started to make a big issue* of "no _NATO along our borders_" *around 2014*.
> While previous NATO countries bordering Russia happened *BEFORE *2014 (in *2004* as this tweet says).
> 
> It doesn't matter whether there was ever a formal promise from NATO of not expanding into Ukraine. It could very well be a one-sided demand by Russia, just like one-sided demand by USA about Cuba. Or it could be a promise made in private meetings that never was scribed into black and white.
> 
> 
> *So anyone saying that*, "oh why Russia says we won't accept NATO expansion along our border, when they already have a couple of NATO countries bordering them", *needs to understand this timeline*.
> 
> 
> 
> Lets put that out in large font:
> 
> 
> 
> *2004 -vs- 2014*
> 
> 
> *NATO bordering Russia -vs- No more please or we'll do sth about it like you reacted to Cuba*.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498749252763279363






In 2004 there were only 3 very tiny states namely; Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania bordering Russia that NATO added..Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria and Albania are not bordering Russia..


----------



## monitor

Let










s have some other side of the conflict. This war have revealed the hypocrisy of western world and its media more vividly .

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## Dragons

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499391505051443205



They need buffer zone and also regarding the baltics they were severally cheated there


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

Dragons said:


> @Beast @8888888888888



That's old news








F-16 Viper: Taiwan Inducts The Most-Advanced F-16s Ever-Built; Can They Overpower PLAAF Jets In An Aerial-Duel?


F-16V Viper - Taiwan's Air Force has inducted the most powerful variant of F-16 fighter jet to bolster the island's defense against China




eurasiantimes.com


----------



## Musings

jhungary said:


> All the yapping and I do not see any of countering of my point? I mean, if you even counter one of my point I can see how you have a "valid" argument. But the fact is you don't do anything other than just telling me off show you there are gonna be nothing for me other than you try to judge what I did while you have completely no clue what I do.
> 
> Do you just want to talk about my past? Or what I am doing now? Or do you want to talk about my point?
> 
> I mean, sure, you can go against everything I said, but if this is the way you bring about an discussion, that only show how empty your argument was, like @Joe Shearer said, better understand you own position before you talk, a lot of embassament you are causing yourself can be avoided by simply ask people who know stuff that you have no idea.


More abuse on respected members? Is this what military experience taught you? Can you not articulate in a respected way? I thought we were on an open forum with variable opinions educating each other - not having cheap shots at respected members?
On topic - it is extremely difficult to decide who what why is telling us the truth. In the day of instant social media - it’s difficult to cerify facts from fiction. 
With the experience of western media - there is a tendency to portray the “opposition “ ( in this case the boogeyman man is Russia ) - in a poor light - exaggerating it’s losses and minimising it’s gains. 
Please friends please remember the Russians are one of the most feared army in the world. My opinion is so far they have use kids gloves because they do believe Ukrainians and the nation are a “cousin” that has stepped out of line and throwing the full wrath of their power would be a tragedy for all. Let’s wait and see.
Now try to debate in a respectful manner and btw you haven’t told us for at least 3 posts your vast knowledge of military experience and extreme in depth knowledge of all things - here’s your chance - go for it sir.

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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> First of all, I found it interesting that 4 days don't seem to be much to you while you claimed 96 hours delay would cause issues for Russians down the road.
> 
> Second, what happened in US/Canada in 2003 was in peace time. Ukraine has a war in their hands.
> 
> Third, it is quite strange that you imagine Russian would just simply replicate that failure. But you may be excused if you have little hacking knowledge.



That is because "Day" and "Time" is relativity. You will not lose a war simply because you lost 4 days of power, you will if you fall behind your schedule for 4 days. Because objective is compound, you don't lost 4 days because you will keep losing the time until that was compensated, it will be 4 days in this objective, and 6 days the other because you started 4 days behind, and before you know it, it can be weeks or even months off your schedule.

Also, the Northeast Power Failure is a unique event, it is a combination of factor, it cannot be easily replicated in physical damage to the point, I mean, you can try, but as far as I know from the engineer, those can restore almost immediately. And not everywhere stopped power for 4 days, some was fixed as soon as 6 hours (NYC) and some where 21 hours, only a part of NE was out for 4 days, and that would not have any effect on a country as big as Ukraine. They are the SECOND biggest country after Russia, that tell you how big it was.

And hacking is not easy, and hacking cannot last long because you don't physically destroy anything from hacking, and in most hacking incident, (like the pre-war infrastructure hacking in Ukraine, basic function come back within a day, Not to mention Russia itself is suffering from Cyber attack, have you heard that Anonymous had declare war on Russia?


----------



## Khanate

*The limits of Indo-Pacific in public...😏*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499404816564776962


----------



## Dragons

Wood said:


> This is just a temporary fad. It will last for a long as the sanctions can.



Everything is temporary in the world

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> That is because "Day" and "Time" is relativity. You will not lose a war simply because you lost 4 days of power, you will if you fall behind your schedule for 4 days. Because objective is compound, you don't lost 4 days because you will keep losing the time until that was compensated, it will be 4 days in this objective, and 6 days the other because you started 4 days behind, and before you know it, it can be weeks or even months off your schedule.
> 
> Also, the Northeast Power Failure is a unique event, it is a combination of factor, it cannot be easily replicated in physical damage to the point, I mean, you can try, but as far as I know from the engineer, those can restore almost immediately. And not everywhere stopped power for 4 days, some was fixed as soon as 6 hours (NYC) and some where 21 hours, only a part of NE was out for 4 days, and that would not have any effect on a country as big as Ukraine. They are the SECOND biggest country after Russia, that tell you how big it was.
> 
> And hacking is not easy, and hacking cannot last long because you don't physically destroy anything from hacking, and in most hacking incident, (like the pre-war infrastructure hacking in Ukraine, basic function come back within a day, Not to mention Russia itself is suffering from Cyber attack, have you heard that Anonymous had declare war on Russia?


OK. I get your points though I don't agree with all of them. But I won't pin you here and this speculative discussion seems to be frivolous.

One thing I shall point out though is that Canada is the SECOND biggest country after Russia. China follows Canada and USA follows China. Did you really want to say Ukraine is the SECOND biggest country in EUROPE?


----------



## jhungary

Musings said:


> More abuse on respected members? Is this what military experience taught you? Can you not articulate in a respected way? I thought we were on an open forum with variable opinions educating each other - not having cheap shots at respected members?
> On topic - it is extremely difficult to decide who what why is telling us the truth. In the day of instant social media - it’s difficult to cerify facts from fiction.
> With the experience of western media - there is a tendency to portray the “opposition “ ( in this case the boogeyman man is Russia ) - in a poor light - exaggerating it’s losses and minimising it’s gains.
> Please friends please remember the Russians are one of the most feared army in the world. My opinion is so far they have use kids gloves because they do believe Ukrainians and the nation are a “cousin” that has stepped out of line and throwing the full wrath of their power would be a tragedy for all. Let’s wait and see.
> Now try to debate in a respectful manner and btw you haven’t told us for at least 3 posts your vast knowledge of military experience and extreme in depth knowledge of all things - here’s your chance - go for it sir.


I was taught to dish out what getting dish in, if you don't want passive aggressive, then don't use passive aggressive on me, I can talk to you in a most professional manner, only if you do the same. If you come out with the first word having cheap shot at me, I am going to mate with you every move you made.

And if you use "Kid Gloves" and "War" in the same sentence, you already show people you don't know nothing about war. If you want to use kid gloves, you won't start a war, once you did invade, all bets are off. Military planner don't plan a war to make nice. Of course, you can try to justify any result you want, that's your pejorative

I don't think I know more than you, I KNOW I know more than you. I did not ask nor need you to respect me, honestly I don't care. And I don't care if you think I am all that. That's your own personal experience. And the only reason you failed to see my last 3 post haven't told you any military knowledge probably because you don't have any.......How do you know something you don't know? I did not mean that as an offence, I am just saying it like it is.



nang2 said:


> OK. I get your points though I don't agree with all of them. But I won't pin you here and this speculative discussion seems to be frivolous.
> 
> One thing I shall point out though is that Canada is the SECOND biggest country after Russia. China follows Canada and USA follows China. Did you really want to say Ukraine is the SECOND biggest country in EUROPE?


True, Canada is a lot bigger than Ukraine, but then not all of Canada were affected in the black out, in fact, a very small portion of Canada is affected (IIRC it's Ontario, more specifically Toronto)

And you need to have the entire country of Ukraine to be in blackout to take effect. That is the different.


----------



## MultaniGuy

Well after the racist remarks of Charlie D'Gata I couldn't care about Ukrainian crisis.

Now it is our turn to say let the Europeans figure it out for themselves.


----------



## Titanium100

RUSSIA carrying out heavy bombardement on Mariupol

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## Ali_Baba

Dragons said:


> They need buffer zone and also regarding the baltics they were severally cheated there



And - what is so special about the Russian ego - that their need for a buffer is more important the freedom of many countries in Europe that they are looking to invade and occupy?

The sheer Russian arrogance is shocking at times .............

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## Vergennes

Ukrainians partisans continue to hunt Russian soldiers


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499427448240361480

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## Hydration

Ali_Baba said:


> And - what is so special about the Russian ego - that their need for a buffer is more important the freedom of many countries in Europe that they are looking to invade and occupy?
> 
> The sheer Russian arrogance is shocking at times .............


oh please this doesnt come from a british


----------



## Titanium100

Ali_Baba said:


> And - what is so special about the Russian ego - that their need for a buffer is more important the freedom of many countries in Europe that they are looking to invade and occupy?
> 
> The sheer Russian arrogance is shocking at times .............



Not arrogance but security measure if many countries created an alliance solely for you.... You will take all measures to secure yourself


----------



## Ich

nang2 said:


> What hydrogen economy? If that it is economical feasible, do you think only Germans can do that?



Why hydrogen economy? Cause with it every country could be independent from gas/oil imports. Also it is environmentally friendly. Also even planes can fly with it. Also the mobility will change cause everyone could fly with hydrogen vtol. Also everyone could produce power and warmth with a fuel cell at home. It is even possible to produce hydrogen for the fuel cell at home. You will find a lot of examples of power independent hydrogen houses in internet. Hydrogen makes the people more free. I like the hydrogen vtols, like this one: https://www.skai.co/ But there are a lot other hydrogen vtol too.

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## jhungary

LeGenD said:


> China is much better equipped than Taiwan but Taiwan has planned its defenses very well; numerous Taiwanese defensive positions are in mountainous locations which can absorb heavy firepower. Taiwan's geography is very well suited for waging guerilla warfare - it is surrounded by ocean and feature a large number of mountains in the middle. It is not easy to insert a large force in Taiwan given its geography and mined spaces. *IF* Taiwanese are courageous and willing to fight, they can win the war on the ground. It will come down to human factor in this case.
> 
> 
> My take in following post:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> @Beast @8888888888888 LOL.. Isnt the one that crashed recently? Why shall China worry about it? No matter how is upgrade, it is still an old airframe which is prone to crashed or non optimum use due to not able to pull 9G.
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk



Taiwan being an Island have an distinct advantage, you cannot invade an island unless you have ways to control the ENTIRE ocean around it. And at this point, Chinese Navy tho strong, in a sense, is still not enough to do that. You cannot attack an island unless you have both Air and Naval Superiority. That's just not how you do it. 

The problem is, if Chinese Navy reach that point (to secure the entire ocean around Taiwan) then it will tilted toward China and Taiwan would be in bad business. Much like how US Island Hopping Campaign back in 1940s. 

Human factor does surely count, but I am afraid if China achieved Naval Superiority, Human factor is going to make heroic story, the ending would still be tragic.....


----------



## Khanate

*Macron to lose re-election over Ukraine mishandling... ☹️*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499392056564748289
Russian won't end military operations until Putin's demands are met which isn't happening any time soon and now Macron faces a tough re-election bid.


Ukraine invasion: Putin wants all of Ukraine and 'worse is to come', warns Macron after phone call

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## nang2

Ich said:


> Why hydrogen economy? Cause with it every country could be independent from gas/oil imports. Also it is environmentally friendly. Also even planes can fly with it. Also the mobility will change cause everyone could fly with hydrogen vtol. Also everyone could produce power and warmth with a fuel cell at home. It is even possible to produce hydrogen for the fuel cell at home. You will find a lot of examples of power independent hydrogen houses in internet. Hydrogen makes the people more free. I like the hydrogen vtols, like this one: https://www.skai.co/ But there are a lot other hydrogen vtol too.


Well, why don't you raise some capital and pursuit that? I didn't ask "why". I ask "what" since hydrogen economy doesn't really exist. Hydrogen storage is a difficult issue to tackle. Without compression, its energy density is very low. With compression, its storage is very expensive. Liquid hydrogen production is a well guarded secret by US. China is a big space player but still couldn't master efficient way to produce that. Toyota has been pursuiting hydrogen fuel cell cars for years, which has costed them dearly and lose the head start in electric car competition.

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## Vergennes



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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499429772933447683

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## coffee_cup

RescueRanger said:


> Well said and frankly I don’t care if someone is a peon or the pope, everyone should show mutual respect and courtesy to each other especially respect our rules that applies to everyone including so called “title holders” myself included.
> 
> If you are unhappy with someone or disagree, don’t reply or hit the ignore button, I know I’ve done that many times in this thread this week.
> 
> Be nice, be kind, it costs nothing.



Very well said bro!

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## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> View attachment 820459


Hahaha 😂


----------



## dBSPL

Putin: We will give compensation of 7,000,000 rubles for every Russian soldier who died.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499431072391696385

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## Titanium100

jhungary said:


> Taiwan being an Island have an distinct advantage, you cannot invade an island unless you have ways to control the ENTIRE ocean around it. And at this point, Chinese Navy tho strong, in a sense, is still not enough to do that. You cannot attack an island unless you have both Air and Naval Superiority. That's just not how you do it.
> 
> The problem is, if Chinese Navy reach that point (to secure the entire ocean around Taiwan) then it will tilted toward China and Taiwan would be in bad business. Much like how US Island Hopping Campaign back in 1940s.
> 
> Human factor does surely count, but I am afraid if China achieved Naval Superiority, Human factor is going to make heroic story, the ending would still be tragic.....



China can take Taiwan today but they don't wanna miscalculate against the US forces spread around Guam, Okinawa, Japan and South Korea even tho they could even yard them off but still they are risk averse and don't wanna miscalculate meaning they are uncertain or wanna wait out until a certain timeline but Taiwan is not coming peacefully as there Airforce is being upgraded as we speak and intend to fight for democracy since they are staunch supporters


----------



## Wood

Khanate said:


> *Macron to lose re-election over Ukraine mishandling... ☹️*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499392056564748289
> Russian won't end military operations until his demands are met which isn't happening any time soon and Macron faces a tough re-election bid.
> 
> 
> Ukraine invasion: Putin wants all of Ukraine and 'worse is to come', warns Macron after phone call


Seems like a complete breakdown of relationship between the French and Russian leadership.

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## Mujahid Memon

Meanwhile...






US Considers Sanctions On India After It Abstained To Vote On Russia - NDTV


US President Joe Biden will decide whether to apply or waive sanctions on India, one of America's key partners, under the CAATSA law for its purchase of the S-400 missile defence system from Russia, a senior administration official has told lawmakers. The US administration is required under a...



defence.pk

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499428529964036103

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## Wood

dBSPL said:


> Putin: We will give compensation of 7,000,000 rubles for every Russian soldier who died.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499431072391696385


Seems like Russia will print money. Or hide the real toll of death if this promise is sincerely kept.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499430691418877955

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## thetutle

Iñigo said:


> Crimea
> 
> (1) Crimea is Russia before California, Texas and Nevada was USA.
> 
> (2) And now you argue that you are defending an internal administrative decision of the USSR
> 
> (3) You want to argue that the USSR is divisible because it is a man-made thing but Ukraine is indivisible because it is a "God-made" thing, although we all know that it is a conglomerate made by Lenin, Stalin and Khrushchev.


Crimea belongs to Muslim Tartars surely? it was theirs before Russia stole it.


Turingsage said:


> You should listen less to propaganda and listen to what the Russians say regarding Ukraine.
> All countries in the UN sitting on the fence and especially India should vote for what is right and not what is convenient
> 
> 
> “There is no Ukraine”: Fact-Checking the Kremlin’s Version of Ukrainian History​_The notion that Ukraine is not a country, but a historical part of Russia, appears to be deeply ingrained in the minds of Russian leadership. Competing interpretations of history have turned into a key ingredient of the deepening dispute between Russia and the West and a subject that Putin in particular appears to feel unusually passionate about. In this article, Dr Björn Alexander Duben explores the question, is it historically accurate to claim has never truly been a nation or state in its own right?_
> For more than twenty years, Vladislav Surkov was a known quantity in Vladimir Putin’s Kremlin. Dubbed the ‘Grey Cardinal’ and the Kremlin’s main ideologist, Surkov is commonly regarded as the mastermind of Putin’s Ukraine policy which plunged Moscow into open conflict with the West. By late February 2020, however, he had apparently fallen from grace and was unexpectedly sacked from his position as personal advisor to the president. Surkov has been prone to making frank, off-the-cuff public remarks that stand in marked contrast to the _omertà_ practiced by most of Putin’s inner circle, offering rare glimpses into what policymakers in the Kremlin appear to be thinking. True to form, within days of his dismissal he stirred up fresh controversy by publicly questioning the existence of Ukrainian statehood. In an interview published on 26 February, Surkov stated that “there is no Ukraine. There is Ukrainian-ness. That is, a specific disorder of the mind. An astonishing enthusiasm for ethnography, driven to the extreme.” Surkov went on to claim that Ukraine is “a muddle instead of a state. […] But there is no nation. There is only a brochure, ‘The Self-Styled Ukraine’, but there is no Ukraine.”
> *“Ukraine is not even a state”*
> Surkov is not the first Russian official to make such a claim. The notion that Ukraine is not a country in its own right, but a historical part of Russia, appears to be deeply ingrained in the minds of many in the Russian leadership. Already long before the Ukraine crisis, at an April 2008 NATO summit in Bucharest, Vladimir Putin reportedly claimed that “Ukraine is not even a state! What is Ukraine? A part of its territory is [in] Eastern Europe, but a[nother] part, a considerable one, was a gift from us!” In his March 18, 2014 speech marking the annexation of Crimea, Putin declared that Russians and Ukrainians “are one people. Kiev is the mother of Russian cities. Ancient Rus’ is our common source and we cannot live without each other.” Since then, Putin has repeated similar claims on many occasions. As recently as February 2020, he once again stated in an interview that Ukrainians and Russians “are one and the same people”, and he insinuated that Ukrainian national identity had emerged as a product of foreign interference. Similarly, Russia’s then-Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev told a perplexed apparatchik in April 2016 that there has been “no state” in Ukraine, neither before nor after the 2014 crisis.
> Such slogans and insinuations might be little more than a rhetorical smokescreen concealing a pursuit of sober, hard-nosed _realpolitik_. But there is much to suggest that these beliefs are in fact informing policymaking at the highest levels of power. What’s more, they appear to have rubbed off on other world leaders as well. In an autumn 2017 briefing, US President Donald Trump reportedly exclaimed that Ukraine “wasn’t a ‘real country,’ that it had always been a part of Russia”.
> Statements like these from some of the world’s most powerful leaders illustrate that history has become a subject of enormous importance for both sides in the Russian-Ukrainian conflict. Historical arguments have been used to justify and rationalise Russia’s annexation of Crimea. From the moment unmarked troops seized the Peninsula in late February 2014, Russian officials have made any number of misleading claims about Crimea’s past and have greatly exaggerated the extent of its historic connections with Russia. But beyond the status of Crimea, disputes about the correct interpretation of the past have been at the centre of Russia’s policies towards Ukraine as a whole. More broadly, competing interpretations of history – particularly the Stalinist period – have turned into a key ingredient of the deepening dispute between Russia and the West and a subject that Putin in particular appears to feel unusually passionate about. Amid all the mythmaking about Ukraine’s past, a brief reality check is in order: Is it historically accurate to claim that Ukraine has never truly been a nation or a state in its own right?
> *Kievan Roots*
> Aside from its cultural proximity, Ukraine’s sentimental and spiritual appeal to many Russians derives from the fact that the Kievan Rus’ – a medieval state that came into existence in the 9th century and was centred around present-day Kiev – is regarded as a joint ancestral homeland that laid the foundations for both modern Russia and Ukraine. But from the time of its foundation to its conquest by the Mongols in the 13th century, the Rus’ was an increasingly fragmented federation of principalities. Its south-western territories, including Kiev, were conquered by Poland and Lithuania in the early 14th century. For roughly four hundred years, these territories, encompassing most of present-day Ukraine, were formally ruled by Poland-Lithuania, which left a deep cultural imprint on them. During these four centuries, the Orthodox East Slavic population of these lands gradually developed an identity distinct from that of the East Slavs remaining in the territories under Mongol and later Muscovite rule. A distinct Ukrainian language had already begun to emerge in the dying days of the Kievan Rus’ (notwithstanding Vladimir Putin’s factually incorrect claim that “the first linguistic differences [between Ukrainians and Russians] appeared only around the 16th century”). Following the incorporation of present-day Ukraine into Poland-Lithuania, the Ukrainian language evolved in relative isolation from the Russian language. At the same time, religious divisions developed within Eastern Orthodoxy. From the mid-15th to the late 17th centuries, the Orthodox Churches in Moscow and in Kiev developed as separate entities, initiating a division that eventually resurfaced in later schisms.
> Most of what is now Ukraine was formally governed by Polish-Lithuanian nobility prior to the 18th century, but these lands were predominantly inhabited by Orthodox East Slavs who began to form semi-autonomous hosts of peasant warriors – the Cossacks. Most of them felt a cultural affinity for Muscovite Russia but had no particular desire to be a part of the Muscovite state. In the 16th through 18th centuries, the Cossacks in present-day Ukraine began to form their own _de facto_ statelets, the ‘Zaporizhian Sich’ and later the Cossack ‘Hetmanate’. They staged a major uprising against their Polish overlords in 1648. Six years later, the expanding Tsardom of Russia signed a treaty of alliance with the Zaporizhian Cossacks. Notwithstanding this temporary turn towards Moscow, the Cossacks also explored other options: In the Treaty of Hadiach with Poland in 1658, they were on the verge of becoming a fully-fledged constituent member of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Had this treaty been successfully implemented, it would likely have tied the Cossacks’ quasi-state firmly to its western neighbours for the foreseeable future.
> The treaty failed, however, and the Cossacks remained divided in their loyalties. Internal disagreements about whether to side with Poland or Russia contributed to a series of civil wars among them in the late 1600s. In a foreshadowing of Ukraine’s present-day dilemma, the Cossacks shifted their allegiance more than once with the ultimate aim of gaining autonomy from both sides. In 1667, Poland-Lithuania had to cede to Moscow control of the territories east of and including Kiev. The Cossack statelet in the eastern territories gradually turned into a Russian vassal state, but its relationship with Russia was rife with conflict. Sporadic Cossack uprisings were now directed against the Tsars. In 1708, for instance, the Cossacks’ leader Ivan Mazepa allied himself with Sweden and fought against Russia in the Great Northern War. In 1775, the Zaporizhian Sich was razed to the ground by Russian forces, and the Cossacks’ institutions of self-governance were liquidated. Following the final Partitions of Poland in the 1790s, the Russian Empire absorbed the remainder of modern-day Ukraine (apart from its extreme west, which was annexed by Austria).
> The territories of Ukraine remained a part of the Russian state for the next 120 years. Russia’s imperial authorities systematically persecuted expressions of Ukrainian culture and made continuous attempts to suppress the Ukrainian language. In spite of this, a distinct Ukrainian national consciousness emerged and consolidated in the course of the 19th century, particularly among the elites and intelligentsia, who made various efforts to further cultivate the Ukrainian language. When the Russian Empire collapsed in the aftermath of the revolutions of 1917, the Ukrainians declared a state of their own. After several years of warfare and quasi-independence, however, Ukraine was once again partitioned between the nascent Soviet Union and newly independent Poland. From the early 1930s onwards, nationalist sentiments were rigorously suppressed in the Soviet parts of Ukraine, but they remained latent and gained further traction through the traumatic experience of the ‘Holodomor’, a disastrous famine brought about by Joseph Stalin’s agricultural policies in 1932-33 that killed between three and five million Ukrainians. Armed revolts against Soviet rule were staged during and after World War II and were centred on the western regions of Ukraine that had been annexed from Poland in 1939-40. It was only with the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991 that Ukraine gained lasting independent statehood of its own – but Ukrainian _de facto_ political entities struggling for their autonomy or independence had existed long before that.
> *Redrawing Borders in the ‘Wild Fields’*
> Even among those who do not question Ukraine’s historic right to independent statehood, it is common to assume that its internationally recognised borders, particularly those with Russia, are in essence artificial. Besides the controversial case of Crimea, many Russians are convinced that the embattled south-eastern regions of Ukraine that have now become the epicentre of the deadly conflict between Kiev and Moscow should rightfully be considered a part of Russia that was accidentally ‘lost’ to Ukraine in the upheavals of the 20th century. Vladimir Putin has routinely referred to these parts of Ukraine as ‘New Russia’ (‘Novorossiya’), an administrative name for these regions during the time when Ukraine was a part of the Tsarist empire. The message conveyed by using this term is that these territories are not historically connected to the remainder of Ukraine.
> The precise south-eastern borders of historical Ukraine are indeed difficult to establish. In the days of the Kievan Rus’, control of what is now southern Ukraine was at best sporadic, and it never extended to the east, which was ruled by Turkic tribes. During Polish-Lithuanian rule, these territories became known as the ‘Wild Fields’ – a sparsely populated no-man’s-land that was constantly threatened by Tatar raids. By the 1600s, the Zaporizhian Cossacks were able to establish a modicum of control over these territories, and they also settled in some regions that extend far into present-day Russia. When the eastern parts of today’s Ukraine came under formal Russian control in the 17th century, the Cossacks’ rule there remained largely autonomous. Substantial settlement of these vast territories did not begin until the early 19th century, and their ethnic make-up remained very diverse – as reflected by the fact that it was neither Ukrainians nor Russians, but British industrialists, who founded Luhansk (1795) and Donetsk (1869), the two cities at the centre of the current separatist conflict.
> The eastern borders of Ukraine were formally drawn in 1919-1924 as the boundaries of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic (UkrSSR). Vladimir Putin made a reference to this in his March 18, 2014 address to the Russian parliament, when he claimed that “after the revolution, the Bolsheviks, for a number of reasons – may God judge them – added large sections of the historical South of Russia to the Republic of Ukraine. This was done with no consideration for the ethnic make-up of the population, and today these areas form the southeast of Ukraine.” Putin made similar claims on various other occasions. At a January 2016 speech he lamented that the Soviet Union’s internal borders had been “established arbitrarily, without much reason” and called the inclusion of the Donets Basin in the UkrSSR “pure nonsense”. As recently as December 2019, during his annual end-of-year press conference, Putin complained that, “when the Soviet Union was created, primordially Russian territories that never had anything to do with Ukraine (the entire Black Sea region and Russia’s western lands) were turned over to Ukraine”.
> Putin’s statements (which he has reiterated on various occasions) are wrong on two counts: For one, the claim that present-day eastern or southern Ukraine should have been considered part of “the historical South of Russia” or “primordially Russian territories” in the 1920s seems preposterous, since there had been no substantial Russian presence in these territories at any time prior to the 19th century. Secondly, Putin’s assertion that Ukraine’s south-eastern borders were established “with no consideration for the ethnic make-up of the population” is equally false. The first Soviet census in 1926, a few years after the eastern borders of the UkrSSR had been finalised, showed that in all territories of eastern Ukraine, including those that are now contested, ethnic Ukrainians still far outnumbered ethnic Russians. What ultimately changed this in the 1930s was the demographic devastation wrought by Stalin’s agricultural genocide, the ‘Holodomor’.
> *Conclusion*
> The frontlines of the frozen conflict between Ukrainian forces and Russian-backed separatists are criss-crossing the plains of the Donets Basin, but they are also running right through the region’s past. Russia’s incursions into Ukraine have enjoyed tremendous support at home and, in some quarters, abroad. Many have been slow to denounce them – or quick to embrace them – out of a conviction that the Kremlin has history on its side; that Ukraine has never been a ‘real’ country in its own right and that its south-eastern territories in particular are primordial Russian lands. Russia’s political top brass, including Vladimir Putin himself, appear to subscribe to this belief as well, and by all appearances it has directly informed their policy towards Ukraine. But as much as these assumptions may resonate with ordinary Russians, as well as some foreign leaders, a glance into Ukrainian history reveals that they are based on a dangerously distorted reading of the past. Ultimately, by redrawing borders and rewriting history the Kremlin is unlikely to have done itself a favour. Through its intervention in Ukraine it has galvanised most Ukrainians in their aversion to Russia and has thereby done a great deal to demarcate the perceived differences between Ukrainians and Russians more clearly than ever before.
> 
> *Dr Björn Alexander Düben *_is an Assistant Professor at the School of International and Public Affairs, Jilin University and has previously taught International Relations and Security Studies at LSE and King’s College London. He holds a PhD in International Relations from the LSE and graduate degrees from the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge._
> Featured Image: _The Zaporozhye Cossacks Replying to the Sultan_. The Yorck Procject (2002). Wikimedia Commons
> ​
> 
> 
> History as the consistent and determining driver of Russia’s strategy​February 17, 2022
> In “Featured”
> The Legitimacy of Russia's Actions in Ukraine​In this post for LSE International History, Björn Alexander Düben analyses the recent outbreak of conflict in Ukraine. Dr Düben examines Russia’s military campaign in Ukraine and its annexation of Ukrainian territory, and argues that Russia’s claims to parts of Ukraine and its annexation of territory in the country has little basis…
> March 4, 2015
> In "Cold War"
> Economic Sanctions: Past & Future​In this post for LSE International History, Borja Guijarro-Usobiaga discusses the past, present and future of sanctions. The article analyses the evolution and effectiveness of sanctions as a deterrence and punishment mechanism. Mr Guijarro-Usobiaga argues that sanctions have come a long-way since the 1990s and do constitute an effective means…
> April 16, 2015
> In "Diplomatic History"
> July 1st, 2020|Uncategorized|6 Comments
> 6 Comments​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Catrin* July 13, 2020 at 11:13 pm - Reply
> Thank you so much for writing this article. Thank you for researching so well. I’m Ukrainian-American and I’ve never seen such a succinct and accurate summary of Ukrainian history in English. If I ever need to educate someone about the validity of Ukrainian-ness and Ukraine’s borders, I will direct them to this article.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Victor Rud* July 20, 2020 at 12:40 am - Reply
> Dr. Duben gets many points right, but his springboard is unfortunately the repetition of late 18 and 19th century Russian rewriting of history in the search for an extended pedigree.
> “Aside from its cultural proximity, Ukraine’s sentimental and spiritual appeal to many Russians derives from the fact that the Kievan Rus’ – a medieval state that came into existence in the 9th century and was centred around present-day Kiev – is regarded as a joint ancestral homeland that laid the foundations for both modern Russia and Ukraine. ”
> That means that ancient Rome was the genesis of the ensuing nations that Rome had within its jurisdiction, with today’s Romania (by analogy, today’s Russia), then having the right to claim Rome as its beginning, with today’s Italians simply disoriented Romanians. Indeed, the name, Romania, and also a Latin language, makes the parallel even more complete. If anything, you’d think the argument would be that today’s Ukraine, with it’s center in Kyiv, has ghe right to reassert dominion over its ancient possession, today’s Russia. Indeed, following the logic of Russian historiographers, today’s Ukrainian’s should claim the Scandanavian countries as their begininig, with Oslo or Stockholm, perhaps, a Ukrainian city. You get the point. Harvard University’s late Edward Keenan burst the mythology of “Russia history”, accepted as gospel in the West.
> Other observations are that the forced starvation of 1932-33 was not the result of agricultural policies, concluded in early 1932, but the blockading of the country and removal of all edibles in order to break the back of the Ukrainian ethos, originating and secured by the village.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *taras mychalewych* July 27, 2020 at 4:35 pm - Reply
> It seems to me that Puti(n) is seeing all this backwards or upsidedown. As the Kievan Rus existed first, and unsatisfied peoples began moving north in search of a better (?) life, where they later mixed with the Finnish tribes and Mongolians, it’d be obvious that Ukraine existed already before Russia became a reality. Kiev would indeed be the Mother of Slavic cities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Victoria Malko* August 23, 2020 at 11:59 pm - Reply
> Indeed, a nice overview of the Ukrainian history, with few omissions. First, until the 11th century schism in Christianity into Catholic and Eastern Orthodox, Kyivan Rus had common faith with Rome, and dynastic marriages linked Kyiv with faraway Paris. Moscow was founded in 1147, so “Russia” did not exist at the time.
> Second, the Ukrainian nation existed for centuries in the minds and hearts of its people without a state. A nation-state concept does not apply. Although the Ukrainian language belongs to the Balto-Slavic language family, it shares less than one percent of root words with Russian (and that is according to Russian etymologists). Most borrowings have entered the Ukrainian language via Latin, German, and Polish, whereas Russian borrowings come mostly from Turkic languages.
> Third, the Ukrainians have preserved their democratic tradition of governance, evident from periodic popular revolutions to change the government if it no longer meets the needs of the civil society. Russia, in contrast, has become an authoritarian dictatorship, largely thanks to its founding father Peter the Great, uneducated in any European university, except shipyards of Amsterdam. It was he who appropriated the term “Rus” for Muscovy to make it sound like Britannia and Austria, other imperial powers. It was Peter the Great who labeled himself and his subjects in Muscovy Great Russians, and to avoid tautology used “Little Russians” for his subjects in now nameless region of Ukraine.
> Finally, little wonder why Stalin had a portrait of Peter the Great in his bunker in Samara, dug out in 1941 when Nazi troops were advancing on Moscow. Stalin, who did not identify himself with backward Georgia, but with Great Russia, forged this straight jacket identity on the Ukrainians, who spoke the language the Bolsheviks did not understand. The Ukrainians fought for their freedom from autocracy and tyranny, be it Soviet or Nazi, to have the right to live in their own land and speak their own language. Stalin’s attempt to destroy the nation and its culture in 1932-1933 in a GPU operation camouflaged under the “grain procurement” campaign cost twice as many lives as the Russian demographers claim. Think about it!
> 
> *Nationalist Myths Drove the Russia-Ukraine and Armenia-Azerbaijan Wars | taktik(z) GDI (Government Defense Infrastructure)* February 16, 2021 at 8:31 pm - Reply
> […] Russian and Armenian eyes there are no Ukrainians or Azerbaijanis. President Vladimir Putin and Russian nationalists have repeatedly said Russians […]
> 
> *The World Should Not Ignore Putin’s Ukraine Oppression* July 26, 2021 at 11:53 am - Reply
> […] numerous occasions since 2014, Putin has directly questioned Ukraine’s historical legitimacy and claimed that much of today’s Ukraine was unjustly taken from Russia. This unambiguously […]
> 
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> 
> “There is no Ukraine”: Fact-Checking the Kremlin’s Version of Ukrainian History
> 
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> The notion that Ukraine is not a country, but a historical part of Russia, appears to be deeply ingrained in the minds of Russian leadership. Competing interpretations of history have turned into a…
> 
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> blogs.lse.ac.uk



Obviously there is a Ukraine. its a country. Interestingly the name Ukraine is a very odd name in the Slavic languages. It basically means "frontier" in the sense that is a frontier of a country that is facing an enemy. So for example, Bosnia has a "Ukranie" which is called "Kraina" in our language. Croatia has a "Krajina". Bosnian and Croatian "kraina's" faced each other and it was an area where Austrian and Ottoman armies fought. Its basically a forward operating base. FOB. 

The people of the area were always involved in wars and basically lived on the front line. The poeople in Bosnia the live there call them selves "Krayishnici" or basically Ukrainians. 

So when someone says the word "kraina"or "Ukraina" you always think, which one? who does it belong to? just because of the meaning of the world. 

So in Ukranian History it seems these people just developed their own nation and became ukrnaians. Its not unusual that frontier dwellers develop their own identity and nation. And this is what Ukranians are. 

So the idea that its not a country or that they are not a people is just a ridiculous claim. They are more of a country than some countries that have become counties very recently, like Germany or Australia or India.

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## maverick1977

Bilal. said:


> Anyone has the big picture of what’s going on. It’s mostly noise on this thread.





zartosht said:


> Russia sees the people of ukraine as its own. Anything that gets destroyed it must repair itself.
> 
> And despite western propagand… anybody with a shred of credibility will tell you Russia is really holding back to avoid civilin casualties.
> 
> This will not be the case for poland. Possibly a bigger nazi/racist country then ukraine. RUSSIA WILL ABSOLUTLY POUND EVERY SINGLE POLISH AREA OF RESISTANCE INTO THE GROUND. They will get carpet bombed into the stone ages. Their cities will all look like berlin may 1945.



I agree that the firepower Russia has wouldve leveled city by now. If they want, they can send Tu 160/ Tu 95 like B52s are used by the Western Nato forces.

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## Bilal.

Mujahid Memon said:


> Meanwhile...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US Considers Sanctions On India After It Abstained To Vote On Russia - NDTV
> 
> 
> US President Joe Biden will decide whether to apply or waive sanctions on India, one of America's key partners, under the CAATSA law for its purchase of the S-400 missile defence system from Russia, a senior administration official has told lawmakers. The US administration is required under a...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 820464


Jis bhook se yeh humien pichhle das pandra saal se daratay thay aaj woh inhi ko lapat gaya. Enjoy 😉


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## Pappa Alpha

Wood said:


> Seems like Russia will print money. Or hide the real toll of death if this promise is sincerely kept.


He will make Ukraine pay for it.

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## Turingsage



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## TheNoob

Ali_Baba said:


> And - what is so special about the Russian ego - that their need for a buffer is more important the *freedom of many countries in Europe that they are looking to invade and occupy?*
> 
> The sheer Russian arrogance is shocking at times .............



ok, you just pulled that one big time. lol

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## Khanate

*Cancel Russia... 🥰*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499421918629404681

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498825529381769216

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## TheNoob

Vergennes said:


> Ukrainians partisans continue to hunt Russian soldiers
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499427448240361480



Learnt this one from the middle eastern It seems.


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## Patriot forever

LeGenD said:


> Check footage and images of Kharkov, Mariupol and areas around Kyiv - lot of shelling and scenes of death and destruction in these locations. The gloves are off in these locations.
> 
> Do you think Russian army is on picnic? Putin wants results. The longer this war drags, the worse it will get for him.



With all due respect


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496640134606819328
As far as civilians are concerned..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499012182423576586
Do you want me to post images of schools being used as military posts?

There are also images and videos of atrocities on ethnic Russian population crucificied burned and what not by azov.

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## Titanium100

Turingsage said:


>


India and cringe is a better love story then twilight

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499433451069612036

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499435069164953603

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499427874352381956

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499429718281625601

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499414309645991957

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## TheNoob

Wood said:


> Seems like Russia will print money. Or hide the real toll of death if this promise is sincerely kept.



What's 65,000 in front of a reserve of 600b


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## jhungary

Titanium100 said:


> China can take Taiwan today but they don't wanna miscalculate against the US forces spread around Guam, Okinawa, Japan and South Korea even tho they could even yard them off but still they are risk averse and don't wanna miscalculate meaning they are uncertain or wanna wait out until a certain timeline but Taiwan is not coming peacefully as there Airforce is being upgraded as we speak and intend to fight for democracy since they are staunch supporters



China can "Invade" today but as I said unless the Chinese Navy can stop resource and resupply come in from other country, a win is uncertain.

Taiwan is an Island, by that the Chinese Combat Power cannot brought to bear and only limited by the ability of Chinese Navy Sealift Capability, and at this point, It's extremely small, Navy Type 075 is the biggest ship that can land troop in Taiwan, and the Chinese only have 2 of those and they weren't fully operational, and then there are smaller landing dock which can support around 20,000-30,000 troop at any wave, if you put Airborne element on top of that, you probably get around 50,000, Taiwan Western seaboard were defended by at least 200,000 troop and tank. You feed that 50,000 troop in it will just going to get slaughtered...

Also, you can't "Yard" them off like you said because those US Force is in someone else country, you *MAY* have a chance against US Far East Fleet (3rd and 7th) but if you pull Japan, South Korea in, chances are Chinese Navy is going to lose. And you cannot attack US forces in Japan and South Korea without attacking Japan and South Korea

And as long as resource and ammunition and supply keep flow into Taiwan, they will keep fighting, which mean it's by no way certain China will win a war, even without US help. With US help, that's a no contest.


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## Hydration

Patriot forever said:


> With all due respect
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496640134606819328
> As far as civilians are concerned..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499012182423576586
> Do you want me to post images of schools being used as military posts?
> 
> There are also images and videos of atrocities on ethnic Russian population crucificied burned and what not by azov.


my man has some driving skills god damn


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## Wood

TheNoob said:


> What's 65,000 in front of a reserve of 600b


I hope you know that the Russian Central Bank is sanctioned and most of this money is out of reach? The chief of Russian Central Bank declared this himself


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## Pakistani Fighter

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499430691418877955


Too old


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## TheNoob

Wood said:


> I hope you know that the Russian Central Bank is sanctioned and most of this money is out of reach? The chief of Russian Central Bank declared this himself



I hope you know that the west is still buying natural resources from Russia.


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## Mujahid Memon

Ich said:


> 22 years ago Germany had the chance to switch to hydrogen economy, getting independent from all fossil fuels within 20 years. But at that time the same idiots were in gov as they are now and the opportunity was blocked cause of ideologie dumb thinking. Today the opportunity is here again, but the same hobos in gov do the same shit as back then.


I think Germany's biggest mistake was to shutdown running nuclear power plants, Germany needs a strong leader in these desperate times.


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## gambit

Since China-Taiwan was pulled in, here is D-Day in terms of naval resources...



Spoiler: Click to check










It is estimated that the invasion of Taiwan will be greater than D-Day. So can we put aside the argument that China can invade Taiwan 'today' or variations of 'today'? If you think yrs from now, then it is a different issue. But stop using the word 'today' as in within the next yr or even the next couple yrs.


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## Vergennes

Ukrainian soldiers holding the ak12 captured on russian soldiers


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## jhungary

TheNoob said:


> I hope you know that the west is still buying natural resources from Russia.



Not that much, and those money belong to Gazprom, not Russia. 

It's like when US Government ask Microsoft to pay for a war. Microsoft probably will say "Screw You"


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## Khanate

*What could go wrong? 🥳
*

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499363570798243841

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## Hydration

Wood said:


> I hope you know that the Russian Central Bank is sanctioned and most of this money is out of reach? The chief of Russian Central Bank declared this himself


they didnt take all russian banks out of SWIFT so that means sanctioned banks can go to the not yet sanctioned banks to transfer money like nothing happened these sanctions are a media show tbh


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## Wood

TheNoob said:


> I hope you know that the west is still buying natural resources from Russia.


...yes, specifically in the energy sector. Continued Russian actions in Ukraine will eventually force EU and US to look for alternate sources of energy. That will put Russia in real trouble.


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## Vergennes

Russians getting roasted again again again...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499438122718961670

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499438024807092228

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499436624270311429

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499439048330518534

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499438793828581387

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## TheNoob

jhungary said:


> Not that much, and those money belong to Gazprom, not Russia.
> 
> It's like when US Government ask Microsoft to pay for a war. Microsoft probably will say "Screw You"



I'm not gonna start pretending that they're suddenly out of money and resources. 
It's not the end of the world yet.

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## Titanium100

jhungary said:


> China can "Invade" today but as I said unless the Chinese Navy can stop resource and resupply come in from other country, a win is uncertain.
> 
> Taiwan is an Island, by that the Chinese Combat Power cannot brought to bear and only limited by the ability of Chinese Navy Sealift Capability, and at this point, It's extremely small, Navy Type 075 is the biggest ship that can land troop in Taiwan, and the Chinese only have 2 of those and they weren't fully operational, and then there are smaller landing dock which can support around 20,000-30,000 troop at any wave, if you put Airborne element on top of that, you probably get around 50,000, Taiwan Western seaboard were defended by at least 200,000 troop and tank. You feed that 50,000 troop in it will just going to get slaughtered...
> 
> And as long as resource and ammunition and supply keep flow into Taiwan, they will keep fighting, which mean it's by no way certain China will win a war, even without US help. With US help, that's a no contest.



If China can secure air superiority they could starve the Island including blocking all ships coming in without Navy superiorty but just air superiorty but I understand you will need bigger fleets that can carry more logistics and soldiers and ideally it would be better to land on 10 axes points at the same time each around 40.000 X 10 meaning even from the east and north including south and west


----------



## Wood

Hydration said:


> they didnt take all russian banks out of SWIFT so that means sanctioned banks can go to the not yet sanctioned banks to transfer money like nothing happened these sanctions are a media show tbh


Yes, they are all stupid. The guys who run the system do not know anything. Random people on the internet know it all

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## TheNoob

Wood said:


> Yes, they are all stupid. The guys who run the system do not know anything. Random people on the internet know it all



You said it, exactly like how it is right now.

PS: I keep getting confused about the topic in this thread. 



Wood said:


> ...yes, specifically in the energy sector. Continued Russian actions in Ukraine will eventually force EU and US to look for alternate sources of energy. That will put Russia in real trouble.



And that is simply not happening in a month or two, 
The war will be far over by then.


----------



## jhungary

TheNoob said:


> I'm not gonna start pretending that they're suddenly out of money and resources.
> It's not the end of the world yet.


Well, they aren't but they are going to if Sanction keep on coming. Rouble is now below 0.085 to 1 USD. Which mean whatever currency they have, as long as it's not their, they lost a lot of value on those. 

Don't forget, this is when Russia Central Bank try their very hardest to prevent Rouble from falling further. Yet, in 10 days, it drop 31% of value...


----------



## TheNoob

jhungary said:


> Well, they aren't but they are going to if Sanction keep on coming. Rouble is now below 0.085 to 1 USD. Which mean whatever currency they have, as long as it's not their, they lost a lot of value on those.
> 
> Don't forget, this is when Russia Central Bank try their very hardest to prevent Rouble from falling further. Yet, in 10 days, it drop 31% of value...



Being a Pakistani, a 30% drop is nothing.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jhungary

Titanium100 said:


> If China can secure air superiority they could starve the Island including blocking all ships coming in without Navy superiorty but just air superiorty but I understand you will need bigger fleets that can carry more logistics and soldiers and ideally it would be better to land on 10 axes points at the same time each around 40.000 X 10 meaning even from the east and north including south and west


Air Superiority alone cannot stave the population. You cannot have Air Power out 24/7 and you cannot loiter when you are out of ammo, which mean supply is going to come in when your fighter RTB either because they are out of fuel or out of ammo or both. 

You may be able to put the fighter outside their range with Aerial Refuelling but first of all, that's risking your asset (Taiwan can shoot those tanker down) second of all, it didn't do much if they ran out of ammo, unlike Ace Combat, each fighter can carry at most 8 missile, it run out pretty quick...



TheNoob said:


> Being a Pakistani, a 30% drop is nothing.


LOL

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## IceCold

Turingsage said:


> What if India claims Pakistan


There are no Ifs, You already do that, way before the Russian Ukraine war. It's another thing you cant do much more than just claim since you arent Russia and Pakistan isn't Ukraine.

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## LeGenD

jhungary said:


> Taiwan being an Island have an distinct advantage, you cannot invade an island unless you have ways to control the ENTIRE ocean around it. And at this point, Chinese Navy tho strong, in a sense, is still not enough to do that. You cannot attack an island unless you have both Air and Naval Superiority. That's just not how you do it.
> 
> The problem is, if Chinese Navy reach that point (to secure the entire ocean around Taiwan) then it will tilted toward China and Taiwan would be in bad business. Much like how US Island Hopping Campaign back in 1940s.
> 
> Human factor does surely count, but I am afraid if China achieved Naval Superiority, Human factor is going to make heroic story, the ending would still be tragic.....





Spoiler: Click to check



Well, you have greater insight than me given your background so I respect your POV.

I am of the view that modern warfare is increasingly hybrid in character and difficult to fight by extension. Even a moderate country can fight very well if it is motivated enough. Taiwan is much better equipped to fight a war than Ukraine.

PLAN, in its current form, can insert thousands of troops inside Taiwan in theory but a much larger force might be needed to occupy and control the island. PLAN will have to deal with Taiwanese cruise missile, mines, and defensive formations in the process. PLAN can try to soften Taiwanese conventional defenses with jet fighters, cruise missiles and ballistic missiles but as I pointed out before - numerous Taiwanese defensive positions are in mountainous locations and have the capacity to absorb lot of firepower - these formations cannot be cleared in some days (very likely to last much longer). Chinese armed forces can certainly batter and slice their way through Taiwanese conventional forces but they might have to deal with unexpected combination of guerilla warfare and urban warfare when deep inside Taiwan. Taiwan is home to millions of people - their motivation and courage will make difference in the end. These people cannot just pack their bags and leave - all the more reason to fight. Human factor.

WE can discuss this theme some other time though.


----------



## jhungary

Hydration said:


> they didnt take all russian banks out of SWIFT so that means sanctioned banks can go to the not yet sanctioned banks to transfer money like nothing happened these sanctions are a media show tbh


The bank that were not out of SWIFT does not have their own system, they are not what we called "Gateway" Bank (There are only a few out going bank in Russia, all but 1 were out of SWIFT,, and that's Gazprombank), which mean they will either need to connect to SWIFT themselves or they need to find another route that by pass SWIFT. Equally hard for both scenario. And then you also need to run the risk of them being Sanction if they stick their neck out.

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## Titanium100

jhungary said:


> Air Superiority alone cannot stave the population. You cannot have Air Power out 24/7 and you cannot loiter when you are out of ammo, which mean supply is going to come in when your fighter RTB either because they are out of fuel or out of ammo or both.
> 
> You may be able to put the fighter outside their range with Aerial Refuelling but first of all, that's risking your asset (Taiwan can shoot those tanker down) second of all, it didn't do much if they ran out of ammo, unlike Ace Combat, each fighter can carry at most 8 missile, it run out pretty quick...
> 
> 
> LOL



You got radar on all ships approaching Taiwan and all you gotta do is warn them first over the radio to back away if not send in the fighters and keep the ocean clean around the Island


----------



## LeGenD

Patriot forever said:


> With all due respect
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496640134606819328
> As far as civilians are concerned..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499012182423576586
> Do you want me to post images of schools being used as military posts?
> 
> There are also images and videos of atrocities on ethnic Russian population crucificied burned and what not by azov.


I am talking about what is happening in the present - not about what happened in 2014 or what Azov is up to.

Ukraine is a big country and some locations are untouched by war.

My point is this - much of the war is being fought in locations such as Donbas, Kharkiv and around Kyiv. There is ample death and destruction in these locations. The impression that Russian army is taking this war lightly is BS. This is all.


----------



## jhungary

LeGenD said:


> Well, you have greater insight than me given your background so I respect your POV.
> 
> I am of the view that modern warfare is increasingly hybrid in character and difficult to fight by extension. Even a moderate country can fight very well if it is motivated enough. Taiwan is much better equipped to fight a war than Ukraine.
> 
> PLAN, in its current form, can insert thousands of troops inside Taiwan in theory but a much larger force might be needed to occupy and control the island. PLAN will have to deal with Taiwanese cruise missile, mines, and defensive formations in the process. PLAN can try to soften Taiwanese conventional defenses with jet fighters, cruise missiles and ballistic missiles but as I pointed out before - numerous Taiwanese defensive positions are in mountainous locations and have the capacity to absorb lot of firepower - these formations cannot be cleared in some days (very likely to last much longer). Chinese armed forces can certainly batter and slice their way through Taiwanese conventional forces but they might have to deal with unexpected combination of guerilla warfare and urban warfare when deep inside Taiwan. Taiwan is home to millions of people - their motivation and courage will make difference in the end. These people cannot just pack their bags and leave - all the more reason to fight. Human factor.
> 
> WE can discuss this theme some other time though.





Spoiler: Click to check



Probably not going to be any other time, as I am pondering whether or not I will keep on posting here, I still have not made any decision yet, so I don't know. Maybe, maybe not.

The problem I see will work badly for China is Taiwanese Sub, they are not top of the line stuff, but China is not traditionally a great Anti-Sub country, (EU and US have more developed tech for sub hunt) If China fight a war with Taiwan, how many man China can brought to bear is depending on how China can hunt down Taiwanese sub. There are 4, but effectively only 2, and the west may sell them some of the new or second hand stuff if China keep getting the violent rhetoric.

Like most Amphibious Assault. The weakest point of any assault is when your troop is sitting on the ship prepare to launch. That is when you can deal the maximum casualty with minimum effort. In Falkland, one mistake saw the ENTIRE Helicopter Stock of British Army planned to use in Falkland go down when they are all in that one cargoship (I forgot the name and it's 5am here I don't want to go look for it) Which mean unless this problem is dealt and the entire area is closed, no sub, no low flying strike aircraft, there are always going to be risk.

But after that, the ability of keeping the war effort going would determine the winner, Taiwan may be able to fight valiantly, but if the Chinese can brought in wave after wave after wave, Taiwan will fall due to the sheer number.





Titanium100 said:


> You got radar on all ships approaching Taiwan and all you gotta do is warn them first over the radio to back away if not send in the fighters and keep the ocean clean around the Island





Spoiler: Click to check



Well, there are 4 or 5 outlying island in Taiwan that can do the opposite as I said it's almost impossible to put up 24/7 CAS (I never had to but I also never see USAF can do that, and USAF is a larger organisation than PLAAF.) I mean you can try I don't know, maybe @gambit would know more, I am not Air Force....

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## lightning F57

I dont understand something, maybe someone with a military background can explain. 

There seems to be many cases of Russian armour being destroyed, it seems like small units. Why are the Russian forces so fragmented I thought a big army would move together with aircover. Why are there so many small units isolated, no fuel, food, desertion. Are they air dropping armour deep into Ukraine with no cover. Seems like so amateur planning going on.

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## HaMoTZeMaS

Just came by Pakistan's official response in context of Rus-Ukr War

Kuch kaha b nahi aur sab Keh b gaey

"and some States" "newly discovered"


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499039324716908549

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## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> Taiwan may be able to fight valiantly, but if the Chinese can brought in wave after wave after wave, Taiwan will fall due to the sheer number.


This is how valiantly Taiwan youth may fight

*Taiwan TV street interview: How Taiwanese youth think about "2 years Mandatory Military Service law"*




Replies are: It's useless, people will refuse to go to war anyway.
It's waste of time, it's just like a summer camp.
We'll just die if going to a war, there's zero chance we can win a war over mainland China.
Military training won't save our lives, and Taiwan's people are not united.

Question: If Taiwan goes to war with mainland China, would you like to join and fight?
Reply: Certainly not, I'll find a place to hide
We can fight but it's meaningless, we can never win.
No one likes to go to war...
Young people don't want to go to war and don't want to waste such a long time on military service
I won't, I don't want to die. Life is meant for more meaningful things.

In the end of the interview, the host shows the answers for the 5 quesions on board, the most chosen one is: "Come on, stop fooling around, what's the point for this conscription law when no one wants to fight and no one wants to go to war?"


----------



## GumNaam

Gripen9 said:


> Redmond. Sure Inshallah.


cool man, email me: tameeraypakistan@gmail.com, I'll give you my real contact info there...and fyi, we may already know eachother from the MAPS Mosque or ICOR or the bellevue Mosque... 😁

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## Paul2

maverick1977 said:


> I agree that the firepower Russia has wouldve leveled city by now. If they want, they can send Tu 160/ Tu 95 like B52s are used by the Western Nato forces.



They are already dumping dumb bombs from Tu-22, which is a heavy bomber by all definitions.

They will never risk strategic bombers there, but Tu-22 is ok

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## RescueRanger

Wood said:


> Yes, they are all stupid. The guys who run the system do not know anything. Random people on the internet know it all


I love this <3

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## jhungary

lightning F57 said:


> I dont understand something, maybe someone with a military background can explain.
> 
> There seems to be many cases of Russian armour being destroyed, it seems like small units. Why are the Russian forces so fragmented I thought a big army would move together with aircover. Why are there so many small units isolated, no fuel, food, desertion. Are they air dropping armour deep into Ukraine with no cover. Seems like so amateur planning going on.



That's the result of them trying to go everywhere at once. Some unit is going to get lost, or leave behind. or separated.

Even with the US Military, these stuff still happened. Remember the lost convoy, Jessica Lynch, and the entire rescue episode?

If you are not briefed on where you want to go and you have no idea but a map (or GPS) chance of you getting lost is high, and once that happened, you are on your own.

Another issue is seems like Russia is lacking on Logistic, tanks are supposed to be able to run up to 500 km without refuel (On road, off road is about half) if they have a full tank, which mean this is some discipline issue that some tank run out of fuel on the way to Kyiv (Which is 150 km from border) Either fuel is not supplied BEFORE the invasion, or they just did not fill it up before they move. There are no way they run out of fuel on the way to Kyiv....



beijingwalker said:


> This is how valiantly Taiwan youth may fight
> 
> *Taiwan TV street interview: How Taiwanese youth think about "2 years Mandatory Military Service law"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Replies are: It's useless, people will refuse to go to war anyway.
> It's waste of time, it's just like a summer camp.
> We'll just die if going to a war, there's zero chance we can win a war over mainland China.
> Military training won't save our lives, and Taiwan's people are not united.
> 
> Question: If Taiwan goes to war with mainland China, would you like to join and fight?
> Reply: Certainly not, I'll find a place to hide
> We can fight but it's meaningless, we can never win.
> No one likes to go to war...
> Young people don't want to go to war and don't want to waste such a long time on military service
> I won't, I don't want to die. Life is meant for more meaningful things.
> 
> In the end of the interview, the host shows the answers for the 5 quesions on board, the most chosen one is: "Come on, stop fooling around, what's the point for this conscription law when no one wants to fight and no one wants to go to war?"


Well, the same applies to Asking any Russian on the street "Do you want to Fight the Ukrainian" Most of them say no, 7000 of them were arrested for protesting the war. Yet, Russia is at war with Ukraine.

Also if Taiwan is attack by China, its no way to say no, that's the same assumption the Russian made "Oh, they won't fight back, we are brother, such and such" Is this the case tho? No.

I admire your naivety, even after Ukrainian war, you still think if there is a choice in war and people can say no when they were attacked. Reality is if you come to my home and try to take my home, I will fight you, I am not going to say to you "Let's sit down and talk about it"......

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## Wood

TheNoob said:


> And that is simply not happening in a month or two,
> The war will be far over by then.


No one can predict the future. My best guess is that this war will become an insurgency in a couple of months and EU sanctions will continue. Only way for Putin to avoid this is to let Ukraine remain an independent country. At best, he can expect some assurances on security and perhaps some recognition of autonomy in the Eastern border of Ukraine.

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## LeGenD

jhungary said:


> That's the result of them trying to go everywhere at once. Some unit is going to get lost, or leave behind. or separated.
> 
> Even with the US Military, these stuff still happened. Remember the lost convoy, Jessica Lynch, and the entire rescue episode?
> 
> If you are not briefed on where you want to go and you have no idea but a map (or GPS) chance of you getting lost is high, and once that happened, you are on your own.
> 
> Another issue is seems like Russia is lacking on Logistic, tanks are supposed to be able to run up to 500 km without refuel (On road, off road is about half) if they have a full tank, which mean this is some discipline issue that some tank run out of fuel on the way to Kyiv (Which is 150 km from border) Either fuel is not supplied BEFORE the invasion, or they just did not fill it up before they move. There are no way they run out of fuel on the way to Kyiv....
> 
> 
> Well, the same applies to Asking any Russian on the street "Do you want to Fight the Ukrainian" Most of them say no, 7000 of them were arrested for protesting the war. Yet, Russia is at war with Ukraine.
> 
> Also if Taiwan is attack by China, its no way to say no, that's the same assumption the Russian made "Oh, they won't fight back, we are brother, such and such" Is this the case tho? No.


US-led forces were still found to be much better organized in Iraq than Russian forces are found to be in Ukraine; Jessica Lynch-like episodes were rare.

Russian forces have lost lot of stuff in different locations of Ukraine by now - some even to Ukrainian farmers.









Ukrainians Citizens Are Taking It Upon Themselves To Capture Russian Military Vehicles (Updated)


These actions are symbolic of the problems that have slowed the Russian advance and the will of average Ukrainians to resist the invasion.




www.thedrive.com


----------



## Foinikas

What happened to this granny from 2015?

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Ich

We go partiell of topic. Wheras it is partiell in topic cause of the sanctions.



nang2 said:


> Well, why don't you raise some capital and pursuit that? I didn't ask "why". I ask "what" since hydrogen economy doesn't really exist. Hydrogen storage is a difficult issue to tackle. Without compression, its energy density is very low. With compression, its storage is very expensive. Liquid hydrogen production is a well guarded secret by US. China is a big space player but still couldn't master efficient way to produce that. Toyota has been pursuiting hydrogen fuel cell cars for years, which has costed them dearly and lose the head start in electric car competition.



Cause the politics in Germany dont want this. They want battery cars and not hydrogen cars. And they want the people dependent. And cause of that they do not build hydrogen gas stations. In the end 90`s, when the hydrogen hype was high till the hobos came into gov, Germany builded hydrogen gas stations. Then the hobos came into gov and till today there are only 100 hydrogen gas stations build in Germany - by privat firms like "H2". Twenty years ago the company Linde ( https://www.linde-gas.de/de/industr...n_technology/hydrogen_gas_stations/index.html ) said that it would build hundreds of hydrogen gas stations along the highways in Germany but the hobos in gov dont want it. And so for over a decade nothing happens. In the last 5 years privat companies build some hydrogen gas stations and so it is possible to drive through germany with hydrogen driven cars like the Hyundai ( https://www.hyundai.de/modelle/nexo/ ).

Producing hydrogen is easy. E.g. here is one of a lot providers









Product — Home Power Solutions


The first solar-hydrogen system for your home Complete your personal energy transition and step into a self-sufficient, secure and CO₂-free future. picea stands for electricity independence picea is installed in your own family home and supplies you with CO₂-free electricity around the year...




www.homepowersolutions.de


----------



## LeGenD

beijingwalker said:


> This is how valiantly Taiwan youth may fight
> 
> *Taiwan TV street interview: How Taiwanese youth think about "2 years Mandatory Military Service law"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Replies are: It's useless, people will refuse to go to war anyway.
> It's waste of time, it's just like a summer camp.
> We'll just die if going to a war, there's zero chance we can win a war over mainland China.
> Military training won't save our lives, and Taiwan's people are not united.
> 
> Question: If Taiwan goes to war with mainland China, would you like to join and fight?
> Reply: Certainly not, I'll find a place to hide
> We can fight but it's meaningless, we can never win.
> No one likes to go to war...
> Young people don't want to go to war and don't want to waste such a long time on military service
> I won't, I don't want to die. Life is meant for more meaningful things.
> 
> In the end of the interview, the host shows the answers for the 5 quesions on board, the most chosen one is: "Come on, stop fooling around, what's the point for this conscription law when no one wants to fight and no one wants to go to war?"


Well, I do not think anybody can decide about this matter on the basis of a mere YouTube clip. Let us be realistic.

Peaceful reunification is much better option as per all manner of calculations.


----------



## GumNaam

Dragons said:


> So they want the whole country now and don't want to deal with them again by giving them some kind of buffer zone. The refugee numbers will be high as Ukraine hosts 44m before war almost 15m refugees is realistic estimation now.
> 
> I can understand why they don't want buffer zone because they don't want round 2


why would you put amrula saleh's pic in your dp anyway???

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## LeGenD

lightning F57 said:


> I dont understand something, maybe someone with a military background can explain.
> 
> There seems to be many cases of Russian armour being destroyed, it seems like small units. Why are the Russian forces so fragmented I thought a big army would move together with aircover. Why are there so many small units isolated, no fuel, food, desertion. Are they air dropping armour deep into Ukraine with no cover. Seems like so amateur planning going on.


This also happened:









Ukrainians Are Manipulating Road Signs To Confuse Russian Invaders


The Ukrainian transportation authority has encouraged citizens to remove road signs to confuse invading Russian forces.




www.thedrive.com


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499396368749588481

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1 | Wow Wow:
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## Hamartia Antidote

How cheap Chinese tires might explain Russia's 'stalled' 40-mile-long military convoy in Ukraine






theweek.com




How cheap Chinese tires might explain Russia's 'stalled' 40-mile-long military convoy in Ukraine​


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499185800172474371

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## RescueRanger

Foinikas said:


> What happened to this granny from 2015?



O/T but That MP5 brings back memories of my ATS days:

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## Foinikas

RescueRanger said:


> O/T but That MP5 brings back memories of my ATS days:
> View attachment 820488


Pakistan Rangers had MPs?


----------



## RescueRanger

Foinikas said:


> Pakistan Rangers had MPs?


 MP5 is in service in most Police, Paramilitary (which includes rangers) and some still used by the Pak Army.

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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499363570798243841



How he got killed? Commando raid behind lines, or he actually went to frontlines?

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## Mujahid Memon

Khanate said:


> *What could go wrong? 🥳*
> 
> View attachment 820471


Yeah its too boring since 80 yrs only big bullies against little kids. No big bros boom doom

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## RescueRanger

Paul2 said:


> How he got killed? Commando raid behind lines, or he actually went to frontlines?


He's not on the list of the Generals leading the offensive:








Who Are The Russian Generals That Ukraine Says Are Fighting In The Donbas? (UPDATED)


Ukrainian security officials have now identified eight active Russian generals as being in command positions of the separatist military forces in eastern Ukraine.




www.rferl.org





But still he is a very senior man in the Russian military.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499453049726803973


----------



## RescueRanger

*As if out of the blue...*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499451665803579402

Reactions: Haha Haha:
7 | Wow Wow:
5


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## Gripen9

GumNaam said:


> cool man, email me: tameeraypakistan@gmail.com, I'll give you my real contact info there...and fyi, we may already know eachother from the MAPS Mosque or ICOR or the bellevue Mosque... 😁


MAPS for me  I will msg you.


----------



## Imran Khan

Foinikas said:


> Pakistan Rangers had MPs?


every armed force in pakistan have them

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jhungary

LeGenD said:


> US-led forces were still found to be much better organized in Iraq than Russian forces are found to be in Ukraine; Jessica Lynch-like episodes were rare.
> 
> Russian forces have lost lot of stuff in different locations of Ukraine by now - some even to Ukrainian farmers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainians Citizens Are Taking It Upon Themselves To Capture Russian Military Vehicles (Updated)
> 
> 
> These actions are symbolic of the problems that have slowed the Russian advance and the will of average Ukrainians to resist the invasion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com


I know, not remember had I told you, she was lost when I was in Iraq, and we are tasked to be on look out for her, She was at a different AO than us.

As for getting lost, they happened a lot more frequent than you think, especially if you have some incompetent officer on the helm, this is just going to make it hard (I personally know some officer who can't read map for shit...) Just that most of the the time they were found before it getting out of hand.........

And if you have read my Day 7 update, you will know I had pointed out that Russia advance is prone to get flanked, and if Ukrainian have any sort of mobile Brigade, that would make mince meat out of these Russian column.....

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## Khanate

*Macron is weak... 😒*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499409342197608450

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499439944724582419

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## kursed

RescueRanger said:


> *As if out of the blue...*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499451665803579402


Not out of the blue, Iran is being offered the nuclear deal and Iranian oil is about to enter the market. The entire process got expedited due to the Russian war. They stand to make the most of the situation at the moment, even KSA has suddenly issued a very pliant statement.

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## RescueRanger

Imran Khan said:


> every armed force in pakistan have them
> 
> View attachment 820494


Hahahahahaa  don't underestimate the convictionof a toond and a size 11 chillar!

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## Ich

Mujahid Memon said:


> I think Germany's biggest mistake was to shutdown running nuclear power plants, Germany needs a strong leader in these desperate times.



Ha, Germany is total corrupt and ideological blinded. At the moment russians, who lived and worked for decades in Germany, get dismissed cause of they are russians. A lot of russians live here in Germany and at the moment russian shops get attacked and destroyed, workers who dont say somthing against Putin get dismissed, grocery stores sort out russians products - even Wodka is thrown away. You cant by russion products any more. And on the streets russians get attacked. With the hobos in gov and their propaganda. Total censoring of other opinions in internet and TV. You lose your job if your oppinion is not the same as the opinion of the hobo gov. 6/8 of germans turned into idiots. 

And now, after the gas from russia is lost, the same hobos what wanted to shut down the nuclear plants, suddenly talk about to let the nuclear plants last a few years more. This hobos in gov are so dumb, thinking only in their ideology and at best some month into the future.

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## Dustom999

jhungary said:


> Taiwan being an Island have an distinct advantage, you cannot invade an island unless you have ways to control the ENTIRE ocean around it. And at this point, Chinese Navy tho strong, in a sense, is still not enough to do that. You cannot attack an island unless you have both Air and Naval Superiority. That's just not how you do it.
> 
> The problem is, if Chinese Navy reach that point (to secure the entire ocean around Taiwan) then it will tilted toward China and Taiwan would be in bad business. Much like how US Island Hopping Campaign back in 1940s.
> 
> Human factor does surely count, but I am afraid if China achieved Naval Superiority, Human factor is going to make heroic story, the ending would still be tragic.....


Taiwan is just at an arms length away from main land! China doesn't even need one destroyer to send landing crafts to taiwan! Costal defense has enough envelope! 
They are treating Taiwan with kids gloves, just because USA and allies will feel embarrassed and are likely to do something bad and that has potential to escalate to things that are bad for all of humanity!
China is so big a military and economic power it can drown 5 US militaries into itself if they attack the mainland now. It's not 1960ies anymore.

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## LeGenD

kursed said:


> Not out of the blue, Iran is being offered the nuclear deal and Iranian oil is about to enter the market. The entire process got expedited due to the Russian war. They stand to make the most of the situation at the moment, even KSA has suddenly issued a very pliant statement.


Bro, am I missing something? Any update in this respect?


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## Khanate

RescueRanger said:


> *As if out of the blue...*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499451665803579402




Ask him about Syria, Iraq, Yemen and Lebanon.

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## kursed

LeGenD said:


> Bro, am I missing something? Any update in this respect?

















Saudi Prince Says Israel Is a Potential Ally, Not an Enemy


Saudi Arabia’s de facto ruler said he sees Israel as a potential ally with shared interests, not an enemy, but that it must solve its conflict with the Palestinians first.




www.bloomberg.com






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499375622270947331

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## jhungary

Dustom999 said:


> Taiwan is just at an arms length away from main land! China doesn't even need one destroyer to send landing crafts to taiwan! Costal defense has enough envelope!
> They are treating Taiwan with kids gloves, just because USA and allies will feel embarrassed and are likely to do something bad and that has potential to escalate to things that are bad for all of humanity!
> China is so big a military and economic power it can drown 5 US militaries into itself if they attack the mainland now. It's not 1960ies anymore.


I don't know should I take your post seriously......

Please don't quote my post anymore, you don't deserve an input.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499433451069612036




It seems Russian intelligence is top-notch.


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## thetutle

I just saw a great piece of western propaganda. it was a father holding his beautiful teenage son in a hospital, their heads touching. The son had died, from shelling, his legs all blown off. 

The man was on the oldie side. How is he going to have another child? it was probably his only child. 

Its the kind of stuff you see in Palestine, except you know they have plenty of kids, but Ukrainians dont. And when some Russian delusion lead to this, you will naturally blame them. If that is his only son the russian shell has ended his genetic line. It has ended him. He will have no other kids to live and provide for. 

This man, when he gets out of his stage of grieving, will have only one thing on his mind. and unlike the Palestinians, he will have the full might of NATO egging him on and providing him with whatever he needs to repay the Russians. 

This is your insurgency right there. There will be 10's of thousands of fathers like him. Russia will truly pay for this.

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## Khanate

kursed said:


> Not out of the blue, Iran is being offered the nuclear deal and Iranian oil is about to enter the market. The entire process got expedited due to the Russian war. They stand to make the most of the situation at the moment, even KSA has suddenly issued a very pliant statement.




MbS laid out the red carpet.

*Bloomberg: **Saudi Prince Says Israel Is a Potential Ally, Not an Enemy*

*



*

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## Dustom999

jhungary said:


> I don't know should I take your post seriously......
> 
> Please don't quote my post anymore, you don't deserve an input.





jhungary said:


> I don't know should I take your post seriously......
> 
> Please don't quote my post anymore, you don't deserve an input.


You Being out of service from a rank of 2/lt Or Lt, u can call me sir!


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## RescueRanger

Khanate said:


> Ask him about Syria, Iraq, Yemen and Lebanon.


I know and that is what makes me laugh... People suffering from selective memory loss:

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## GumNaam

Hamartia Antidote said:


> How cheap Chinese tires might explain Russia's 'stalled' 40-mile-long military convoy in Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theweek.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How cheap Chinese tires might explain Russia's 'stalled' 40-mile-long military convoy in Ukraine​
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499185800172474371


pull your head outta your behind and see the historical facts. Russia is purposefully moving slow on kiev since historically, kiev is the first place where the eastern orthodox church was established. kiev holds a religious, sentimental value for eastern orthodox christians which is why they are not leveling it via a blitzkrieg type of an attack. not because of some made in China tire! even here your hatred and bias towards China is just APPAULLING...silly woman!

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## The SC



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## RescueRanger

Khanate said:


> MbS laid out the read carpet.
> 
> *Bloomberg: **Saudi Prince Says Israel Is a Potential Ally, Not an Enemy*

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## LeGenD

jhungary said:


> I know, not remember had I told you, she was lost when I was in Iraq, and we are tasked to be on look out for her, She was at a different AO than us.
> 
> As for getting lost, they happened a lot more frequent than you think, especially if you have some incompetent officer on the helm, this is just going to make it hard (I personally know some officer who can't read map for shit...) Just that most of the the time they were found before it getting out of hand.........
> 
> And if you have read my Day 7 update, you will know I had pointed out that Russia advance is prone to get flanked, and if Ukrainian have any sort of mobile Brigade, that would make mince meat out of these Russian column.....


I see.

What about navigation equipment of American armed forces?









Military Applications | Time and Navigation







timeandnavigation.si.edu





Do Americans not have superiority over Russians in this matter?

Things have come a long way since 2003 as well. UAVs are making a lot of difference for instance.

The problem is that WE are looking at Russian army in 2022 and comparing it to American army in 2003.


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## kursed

Iranians are extremely pragmatic, they'd take the deal. It won't change much on the supply side in the near term, since they have been sending oil to China illicitly for the most part but it'll get them help (investments) to up the supply long-term.

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## kingQamaR

, you do realise that membership of NATO and the EU is voluntary and has to be requested and approved? Slightly different to Russian imperialism.


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## Khanate

kursed said:


> View attachment 820495
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saudi Prince Says Israel Is a Potential Ally, Not an Enemy
> 
> 
> Saudi Arabia’s de facto ruler said he sees Israel as a potential ally with shared interests, not an enemy, but that it must solve its conflict with the Palestinians first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bloomberg.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499375622270947331




Important bit is MbS seeking recognition as the de-facto leader of KSA from US. The oil, Israel and Iran are secondary here.

Reuters: Saudi crown prince plays the oil card in quest for U.S. recognition​

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## Tamerlane

Even if we're on Russia's side we don't have anything against Ukrainians and we feel sorry for civilians getting hurt and cities getting damaged. However, Russians have a record of rebuilding a place once they've conquered it. Not like the Anglo-Zionists who attack Muslim countries in a fit of hatred and anger and leave them in ruins.

Here are pictures of Grozny, the capital of Chechnya in 2000 and 2020. Cities in Ukraine will be rebuilt.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499261072787841025

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## kursed

Khanate said:


> Important bit is MbS seeking recognition as the de facto leader of KSA from US. The oil, Israel and Iran are secondary here.


Given US demands to take sides on Russia, everyone's got a price tag. =)

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499448433089855495

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## LeGenD

Tamerlane said:


> Even if we're on Russia's side we don't have anything against Ukrainians and we feel sorry for civilians getting hurt and cities getting damaged. However, Russians have a record of rebuilding a place once they've conquered it. Not like the Anglo-Zionists who attack Muslim countries in a fit of hatred and anger and leave them in ruins.
> 
> Here are pictures of Grozny, the capital of Chechnya in 2000 and 2020. Cities in Ukraine will be rebuilt.


Chechnya is part of Russia - very likely to be rebuild.

What about Syrian cities like Aleppo? Would Russia rebuild it?

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## jhungary

LeGenD said:


> I see.
> 
> What about navigation equipment of American armed forces?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Military Applications | Time and Navigation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> timeandnavigation.si.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do Americans not have superiority over Russians in this matter?
> 
> Things have come a long way since 2003 as well. UAVs are making a lot of difference for instance.
> 
> The problem is that WE are looking at Russian army in 2022 and comparing it to American army in 2003.


Not sure about it now, when I was in, we have something called Battlespace Management system, it's probably a bit less sophisticated than google map now, it show you where your unit and where other vehicle as long as you have lo-jack on your vehicle,

But the map is really, no other way to say it, shit. imagine it's the rudimentary map you get from opening an atlas and then with unit reflash, if you have ever tried to navigate on the street by a map, you will know you need landmark to relate to where you are and where you are going, and landmark is something really hard to find when you are in a desert. It will not do what GPS do now telling you "turn right at 400 meters, then into middle lane" if you missed that 400 meters, you will keep going. And that's how you get lost.

In Ukraine, what I heard is local turn the street sign the other way around or took them down altogether so to confused the Russian, I have no idea what kind of Nav the Russian have, but even if they have a competent system, that still depends on how the people who used those system.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499439693246738433


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## jhungary

Dustom999 said:


> You Being out of service from a rank of 2/lt Or Lt, u can call me sir!


Well, I can't answer a post about a battle with the reference to something only happen during Winter War between a fight with Superman and Batman. I was a soldier and a Military Scientist, not a comic book fan

And seriously, don't quote me again.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499418853238919170

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499436576069365766

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## Wood

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499261072787841025


This looks like propaganda

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## Titanium100

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499439693246738433



Obviously they weren't gonna get the results they wanted as Putin wants to take all of Ukraine. I was hoping for them getting atleast the western part of the country but Putin knows that it will again revolt or make a comeback from that enclave. 

Hence why Germany has to step up and create a buffer zone for the Ukrainian government on the western part of Ukraine

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## Oublious

Tamerlane said:


> Even if we're on Russia's side we don't have anything against Ukrainians and we feel sorry for civilians getting hurt and cities getting damaged. However, Russians have a record of rebuilding a place once they've conquered it. Not like the Anglo-Zionists who attack Muslim countries in a fit of hatred and anger and leave them in ruins.
> 
> Here are pictures of Grozny, the capital of Chechnya in 2000 and 2020. Cities in Ukraine will be rebuilt.




lol


They build it for a price, Russian have destroyed and killed every fighter who have foughted in Checenya. Kadirov is puppet litteraly, you have to pay a price.

Why are chechens fighting in Ukrain today, what kind benefits do they have? Nothing, only thing is they have to pay the price, Russia have rebuild Grozny lol...


Russian are the biggest in assimilating millions muslims in catholics. They have erased muslim identity. But hey anti zionist Palestine and good to go, it seems people like you looks from a tunnel view on life. Give 20 years and that picture will turn in something else.

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## KAL-EL

Invicta said:


> Rightly pointed out, this thread is full of uninformed people who don't have a clue on what is going on. It is just lazy to paint all countries with the same brush. They will be the first to complain if it was done to their race, religion or country.



^^ This ×1000

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## RescueRanger

A sign in Western Ukraine has been painted over and simply reads "Пекло = Hell"


----------



## nang2

Ich said:


> We go partiell of topic. Wheras it is partiell in topic cause of the sanctions.
> 
> 
> 
> Cause the politics in Germany dont want this. They want battery cars and not hydrogen cars. And they want the people dependent. And cause of that they do not build hydrogen gas stations. In the end 90`s, when the hydrogen hype was high till the hobos came into gov, Germany builded hydrogen gas stations. Then the hobos came into gov and till today there are only 100 hydrogen gas stations build in Germany - by privat firms like "H2". Twenty years ago the company Linde ( https://www.linde-gas.de/de/industr...n_technology/hydrogen_gas_stations/index.html ) said that it would build hundreds of hydrogen gas stations along the highways in Germany but the hobos in gov dont want it. And so for over a decade nothing happens. In the last 5 years privat companies build some hydrogen gas stations and so it is possible to drive through germany with hydrogen driven cars like the Hyundai ( https://www.hyundai.de/modelle/nexo/ ).
> 
> Producing hydrogen is easy. E.g. here is one of a lot providers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Product — Home Power Solutions
> 
> 
> The first solar-hydrogen system for your home Complete your personal energy transition and step into a self-sufficient, secure and CO₂-free future. picea stands for electricity independence picea is installed in your own family home and supplies you with CO₂-free electricity around the year...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.homepowersolutions.de


Sounds more like a conspiracy theory. I would rather stick to the actual economic reality.


----------



## jhungary

Titanium100 said:


> Obviously they weren't gonna get the results they wanted as Putin wants to take all of Ukraine. I was hoping for them getting atleast the western part of the country but Putin knows that it will again revolt or make a comeback from that enclave.
> 
> Hence why Germany has to step up and create a buffer zone for the Ukrainian government on the western part of Ukraine


There are going to be insurrection in Ukraine regardless of which part of the country, people that were pro-Russia in Ukraine mostly changed their mind, and as a matter of fact they are one of the fiercest group that are repelling the Russian invasion, because if they were captured, they will be treated worse than Ukrainian.

Invading a country help uniting a defence, people that usually have quarrel set that aside and fight for a common enemy, that's what the Chinese did when they were attacked by the Japanese.....I mean, the nationalist and communist set their different a side to fight the Japanese.


----------



## Titanium100

KAL-EL said:


> ^^ This ×1000



I take more issues with the fact that some very self-centric posters are here and everything has to be about them meaning there is alot of off-topic irrelevance thrown around by some while this is strictly Ukraine-Russian conflict thread.. 

I am not here to talk about Turkey-Pkk, Iranian sentiments or Imran Khan meetings or his view points on this conflict plus trade deals etc etc

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## kursed

US establishment suddenly remembering a nation that went toe to toe with the Soviets at the height of their power.. on their behalf and well, won the damned thing.

Trying to find a Pakistan on NATO territory. =) 















NATO Countries Pour Weapons Into Ukraine, Risking Conflict With Russia


Brussels is proud to be providing military aid, but Moscow may see it as a dangerous intervention.




www.nytimes.com






Proper Teri yaad ai, teray janay kay baad scene. =P

"Pakistanis were not intimidated by the Soviets" - Bruce Ridel.









Could Ukraine be Putin’s Afghanistan?


As Russia invades Ukraine, Bruce Riedel reflects on the insurgency against the Soviet occupation in Afghanistan in the 1980s and lessons for the new war.




www.brookings.edu

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## jhungary

Dustom999 said:


> Being out of service from a rank of 2/lt Or Lt, u can call me sir!
> 
> 
> What happened to a earlier vows of not replying to quotes?
> 
> I wrote that 2/lt shit just to test soldier's temperament.
> Now I am quite sure.


@LeGenD What is with this guy?

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## Titanium100

jhungary said:


> There are going to be insurrection in Ukraine regardless of which part of the country, people that were pro-Russia in Ukraine mostly changed their mind, and as a matter of fact they are one of the fiercest group that are repelling the Russian invasion, because if they were captured, they will be treated worse than Ukrainian.
> 
> Invading a country help uniting a defence, people that usually have quarrel set that aside and fight for a common enemy, that's what the Chinese did when they were attacked by the Japanese.....I mean, the nationalist and communist set their different a side to fight the Japanese.



I don't think anyone changed minds as Ukraine is very ethnic country and so is Russia. They are so ethnic that they are even allowing only Ukrainians first on trains. Hence the Pro-Russians were just ethnic Russians living in Ukraine and they were the once that came under assault in Donbass hence both countries are very ethnic oriented and there is no such thing as pro-russian or not but there is Ukrainian or Russian two ethnic groups

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## RescueRanger

US: 19 oligarchs and 47 family members are facing asset seizures across the US. A special task force has been established and congress has been approached to approve $53 Million for the task force from the DOJ to accomplish this task - 

Source:








Attorney General Merrick B. Garland Announces Launch of Task Force KleptoCapture







www.justice.gov

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## OldTwilight

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 820506
> 
> A sign in Western Ukraine has been painted over and simply reads "Пекло = Hell"



Hell for whom ? 

its Ukrainian who are living there not Russians ...


----------



## Titanium100

kursed said:


> US establishment suddenly remembering a nation that went toe to toe with the Soviets at the height of their power.. on their behalf and well, won the damned thing.
> 
> Trying to find a Pakistan on NATO territory. =)
> 
> View attachment 820507
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO Countries Pour Weapons Into Ukraine, Risking Conflict With Russia
> 
> 
> Brussels is proud to be providing military aid, but Moscow may see it as a dangerous intervention.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proper Teri yaad ai, teray janay kay baad scene. =P
> 
> "Pakistanis were not intimidated by the Soviets" - Bruce Ridel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could Ukraine be Putin’s Afghanistan?
> 
> 
> As Russia invades Ukraine, Bruce Riedel reflects on the insurgency against the Soviet occupation in Afghanistan in the 1980s and lessons for the new war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.brookings.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 820508
> View attachment 820509



Oh my days in that case they want to bleed Russia and they are planning a protracted war


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## RescueRanger

OldTwilight said:


> Hell for whom ?
> 
> its Ukrainian who are living there not Russians ...


For both parties I suppose.


----------



## OldTwilight

RescueRanger said:


> For both parties I suppose.



Well , Its Ukrainian who are living here , Russians are doing what invader were doing in past 3000 years , burning to the ground ...


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499406863250644993

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## mingle

kursed said:


> US establishment suddenly remembering a nation that went toe to toe with the Soviets at the height of their power.. on their behalf and well, won the damned thing.
> 
> Trying to find a Pakistan on NATO territory. =)
> 
> View attachment 820507
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO Countries Pour Weapons Into Ukraine, Risking Conflict With Russia
> 
> 
> Brussels is proud to be providing military aid, but Moscow may see it as a dangerous intervention.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proper Teri yaad ai, teray janay kay baad scene. =P
> 
> "Pakistanis were not intimidated by the Soviets" - Bruce Ridel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could Ukraine be Putin’s Afghanistan?
> 
> 
> As Russia invades Ukraine, Bruce Riedel reflects on the insurgency against the Soviet occupation in Afghanistan in the 1980s and lessons for the new war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.brookings.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 820508
> View attachment 820509


Yeh saw it on ur Twitter account I hope they won't invite Pakistan again at Poland

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## RescueRanger

OldTwilight said:


> Well , Its Ukrainian who are living here , Russians are doing what invader were doing in past 3000 years , burning to the ground ...


Everyone suffers in war, some scars are seen, others are not.


----------



## kursed

mingle said:


> Yeh saw it on ur Twitter account I hope they won't invite Pakistan again at Poland


Nah! Doubt it very much, Pak is pretty much in the Chinese camp now.

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## OldTwilight

RescueRanger said:


> Everyone suffers in war, some scars are seen, others are not.


war is part of humanity , as hell is destination of so many people ... these are reality ...

I hope the war end here ...

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## jhungary

Titanium100 said:


> I don't think anyone changed minds as Ukraine is very ethnic country and so is Russia. They are so ethnic that they are even allowing only Ukrainians first on trains. Hence the Pro-Russians were just ethnic Russians living in Ukraine and they were the once that came under assault in Donbass hence both countries are very ethnic oriented and there is no such thing as pro-russian or not but there is Ukrainian and Russian


Well, that's depends on what's your definition of "Pro-Russia" 

Pro-Russia in Ukraine can mean you have a cordial view of Russia, or you speak Russia or more precisely "Russo-phone" people. If this is the definition of "Pro-Russia" then up to 80% of the entire Population is Pro-Russia

But if your definition of Pro-Russia is to take up arms and fight your local government, and you rather be Russian then Ukrainian, those people represent a very small population even before 2014, those people are in small portion of the population, and they are mostly living in the East. . 

I just today talked to a girl in Australia, she is from Mariupol, she is "Pro-Russia", she speak Russian, she was Russian Educated, and she is, well, was, a fan of Putin and she think 2014 Crimea is acceptable, yet she think the invasion of Ukraine is unacceptable. There are red line Ukrainian, regardless of your ethnicity, will not cross, a general invasion is one of them.



RescueRanger said:


> US: 19 oligarchs and 47 family members are facing asset seizures across the US. A special task force has been established and congress has been approached to approve $53 Million for the task force from the DOJ to accomplish this task -
> 
> Source:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Attorney General Merrick B. Garland Announces Launch of Task Force KleptoCapture
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.justice.gov


It's useless, they need to sanction the friend and the children of Oligarch, not themselves, that's where most of them hiding their asset in the west...

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## khansaheeb

TheNoob said:


> Aren't these commercial drones just fodder for the weakest EW Countermeasure out there?


If you use a transmitter of same frequency it will cause the drone to go all over the place.

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## Titanium100

jhungary said:


> Well, that's depends on what's your definition of "Pro-Russia"
> 
> Pro-Russia in Ukraine can mean you have a cordial view of Russia, or you speak Russia or more precisely "Russo-phone" people. If this is the definition of "Pro-Russia" then up to 80% of the entire Population is Pro-Russia
> 
> But if your definition of Pro-Russia is to take up arms and fight your local government, and you rather be Russian then Ukrainian, those people represent a very small population even before 2014, those people are in small portion of the population, and they are mostly living in the East. .
> 
> I just today talked to a girl in Australia, she is from Mariupol, she is "Pro-Russia", she speak Russian, she was Russian Educated, and she is, well, was, a fan of Putin and she think 2014 Crimea is acceptable, yet she think the invasion of Ukraine is unacceptable. There are red line Ukrainian, regardless of your ethnicity, will not cross, a general invasion is one of them.



Come on? Brother you think Ukraine was 80% pro-Russian prior to the invasion?  I Know what you are trying to do here perhpas you are pro-Russia in this conflict but I am entirely neutral in this conflict.I don't believe in 80% that is slightly over the top figure because Ukraine has been radicalized against Russia for decades now and it only increased during the Maiden revolution. The figure is around max 10% prior to war


----------



## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


> It's useless, they need to sanction the friend and the children of Oligarch, not themselves, that's where most of them hiding their asset in the west...


Well they are going after 47 family members, so that's a start. But these people have so much eye watering wealth that its kind of hard to keep tabs on where it all is.


----------



## jhungary

Titanium100 said:


> Come on? Brother you think Ukraine was 80% pro-Russian prior to the invasion?  I Know what you are trying to do here perhpas you are pro-Russia in this conflict but I am entirely neutral in this conflict.I don't believe in 80% that is laughable figure because Ukraine has been radicalized against Russia for decades now and it only increased during the Maiden revolution. The figure is around max 10% prior to war


I said it depends on how you defined the term "Pro-Russian" 

I said if your definition is that they are "Russo-Phone" people, then yes, 80% of them are pro-Russian.

It's a perspective issue.


----------



## RescueRanger

khansaheeb said:


> If you use a transmitter of same frequency it will cause the drone to go all over the place.


Yes as I found out when we used to play with the old Cystal powered RC model aircraft in college. Same frequency and suddenly... Cyka blyat!

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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> Well they are going after 47 family members, so that's a start. But these people have so much eye watering wealth that its kind of hard to keep tabs on where it all is.


Yeah, that's hard to find out who's wealth belong to who, with all the shell company and many layer of ownership. 

I just know one thing, I am going to save up money to buy some cheap ex-Russian own sport car


----------



## LeGenD

jhungary said:


> Not sure about it now, when I was in, we have something called Battlespace Management system, it's probably a bit less sophisticated than google map now, it show you where your unit and where other vehicle as long as you have lo-jack on your vehicle,
> 
> But the map is really, no other way to say it, shit. imagine it's the rudimentary map you get from opening an atlas and then with unit reflash, if you have ever tried to navigate on the street by a map, you will know you need landmark to relate to where you are and where you are going, and landmark is something really hard to find when you are in a desert. It will not do what GPS do now telling you "turn right at 400 meters, then into middle lane" if you missed that 400 meters, you will keep going. And that's how you get lost.
> 
> In Ukraine, what I heard is local turn the street sign the other way around or took them down altogether so to confused the Russian, I have no idea what kind of Nav the Russian have, but even if they have a competent system, that still depends on how the people who used those system.


Well, much have changed for the US army since 2003 of course.



kursed said:


> US establishment suddenly remembering a nation that went toe to toe with the Soviets at the height of their power.. on their behalf and well, won the damned thing.
> 
> Trying to find a Pakistan on NATO territory. =)
> 
> View attachment 820507
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO Countries Pour Weapons Into Ukraine, Risking Conflict With Russia
> 
> 
> Brussels is proud to be providing military aid, but Moscow may see it as a dangerous intervention.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proper Teri yaad ai, teray janay kay baad scene. =P
> 
> "Pakistanis were not intimidated by the Soviets" - Bruce Ridel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could Ukraine be Putin’s Afghanistan?
> 
> 
> As Russia invades Ukraine, Bruce Riedel reflects on the insurgency against the Soviet occupation in Afghanistan in the 1980s and lessons for the new war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.brookings.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 820508
> View attachment 820509


It depends on the situation.

UK and Poland will be willing to fight.

France will negotiate its surrender on the other hand. 😉

- - - - -

USA and Russia fought a battle in Syria in 2018









American General In Syria Confirms US Forces Killed Hundreds Of Russians In Massive Battle


US Army Brigadier General Jonathan Braga confirms American troops killed hundreds of Russians in one battle and worried it could have escalated.




www.thedrive.com













Battle of Khasham - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





This was the 1st direct clash (and a major battle) between US-led forces and Russia-led forces in a foreign land *after* the Vietnam War. This battle occurred in spite of *deconflict arrangement* between USA and Russia for operations in Syria.

It shows that things can spiral out of control in the thick of war.

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## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


> Yeah, that's hard to find out who's wealth belong to who, with all the shell company and many layer of ownership.
> 
> I just know one thing, I am going to save up money to buy some cheap ex-Russian own sport car


Haha, those asset forfeiture auctions will be interesting no doubt about it.

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## jhungary

LeGenD said:


> Well, much have changed for the US army since 2003 of course.
> 
> 
> It depends on the situation.
> 
> UK and Poland will be willing to fight.
> 
> France will negotiate its surrender as usual. 😉
> 
> - - - - -
> 
> USA and Russia fought a battle in Syria in 2018
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American General In Syria Confirms US Forces Killed Hundreds Of Russians In Massive Battle
> 
> 
> US Army Brigadier General Jonathan Braga confirms American troops killed hundreds of Russians in one battle and worried it could have escalated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Battle of Khasham - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was the 1st direct clash (and a major battle) between US-led forces and Russia-led forces in a foreign land *after* the Vietnam War. This battle occurred in spite of *deconflict arrangement* between USA and Russia for operations in Syria.
> 
> It shows that things can spiral out of control in the thick of war.


LOL, there is an old army saying 

"Things has changed, but idiots never will" 

I remember one of my soldier "Lost" an APC (When I was still a 19A) yes, he manage to lose an APC and don't know where it goes. It took us 6 weeks to track down the damn tank...

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## Ich

nang2 said:


> Sounds more like a conspiracy theory. I would rather stick to the actual economic reality.


Well, this all exist in real. The houses were build/exists. There even exists solar cells which turn solar energy directly into hydrogen what will make independens in energy through hydrogen much more easier. 

*








»H2Demo« – grüner Wasserstoff aus direkter solarer Wasserspaltung - Fraunhofer ISE


Im BMBF-Projekt »H2Demo« arbeiten elf Partner, unter Federführung des Fraunhofer ISE, an Demonstratoren für die direkte solare Wasserspaltung.




www.ise.fraunhofer.de




*
All what is needed already exists. But is blocked by ideological dumbness or uninformedness.


----------



## GumNaam

Khanate said:


> *Cancel Russia... 🥰*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499421918629404681
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498825529381769216


"economic collapse" my foot, u.s. and e.u. are still buying a whopping $1 billion worth of oil and gas from Russia PER DAY!

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## coffee_cup

Just as a side note:

Most of the Russian oligarch's are carrying an Israeli passport, like Roman Abramovich as well. 
Will they be able to dodge some of the sanctions in the West this way?

Abramovich e.g. is not sanctioned in the UK, he has voluntarily announced stepping down. Or am I not properly informed?

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## Titanium100

jhungary said:


> I said it depends on how you defined the term "Pro-Russian"
> 
> I said if your definition is that they are "Russo-Phone" people, then yes, 80% of them are pro-Russian.
> 
> It's a perspective issue.



Russo-phone is not 80% of the population tho and most of these are located in the Novorossiya part but they don't make 80% of the population more like 30% counting to around 14-million and all of them are not ethnic ukrainians meaning around 7-8 million of these are actually ethnic russians and these were the once in the civil war hence this was along ethnic lines


----------



## RescueRanger

Russian soldiers parading AZOV POW: Note Before **I don't agree with parading POW's* * But this is worth a look:

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> Yes as I found out when we used to play with the old Cystal powered RC model aircraft in college. Same frequency and suddenly... Cyka blyat!


I heard that once in one of those auction, they auctioned a super car worth 500,000 for like 95G.

That's a bargain.

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## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


> I heard that once in one of those auction, they auctioned a super car worth 500,000 for like 95G.
> 
> That's a bargain.


Oh my goodness, that's insane.


----------



## jhungary

Titanium100 said:


> Russo-phone is not 80% of the population and most of these are located in the Novorossiya part but they don't make 80% of the population more like 30% counting to around 14-million and all of them are not ethnic ukrainians meaning around 7-8 million of these are actually ethnic russians and these were the once in the civil war hence this was along ethnic lines


It is, you are thinking about "Ethnic" Russian. not "Russo-Phone" Ethnic Russian is people that have root in Russia, people that have relative that was born in Russia, like a Chinese American is Ethnic Chinese, but Russo-Phone people can mean anyone that speak the language and have some degree of connection with Russia. A person form Louisiana can be said as Franco-phone because of the French influence, but they are not ethnic French.

And again, it depends on how you define "Pro-Russia"

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## nang2

Ich said:


> Well, this all exist in real. The houses were build/exists. There even exists solar cells which turn solar energy directly into hydrogen what will make independens in energy through hydrogen much more easier.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> »H2Demo« – grüner Wasserstoff aus direkter solarer Wasserspaltung - Fraunhofer ISE
> 
> 
> Im BMBF-Projekt »H2Demo« arbeiten elf Partner, unter Federführung des Fraunhofer ISE, an Demonstratoren für die direkte solare Wasserspaltung.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ise.fraunhofer.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> All what is needed already exists. But is blocked by ideological dumbness or uninformedness.











The One Big Problem With Green Hydrogen


By Irina Slav From a rarely mentioned, modest member of the renewable energy family to a headline-hogging clickbait, hydrogen has quickly turned from a prop to a star. There is a good reason for it: the most abundant chemical element in the universe can be harnessed to produce and store energy...




energycentral.com


----------



## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> Oh my goodness, that's insane.


Yeah, but then usually something is wrong with that, like maybe there were a body or two in the trunk? People don't like stuff that dead people touches....same thing with properties....

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499414786714619914
*This can't be true! *

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## NA71

european military supply is getting through approval phase in different courtiers. .... while the Russians have completed siege of all major cities of strategic importance....in other words, these supplies may never reach the fighting hands....what a wicked game USA/EU is playing ...

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## Pappa Alpha

RescueRanger said:


> Russian soldiers parading AZOV POW: Note Before **I don't agree with parading POW's* * But this is worth a look:
> View attachment 820511
> 
> View attachment 820512
> 
> View attachment 820513


Like grandfather like grandson.

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## Titanium100

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499414786714619914
> *This can't be true! *



Russia has taken this war as if they were waging a war against gog and magog but this is how you need to fight wars as if it is your last war. I respect this kind of mindset


----------



## GumNaam

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499132336193130500
> The MiG-21 Lancer of the Romanian Air Force crashed in Constanta County.
> 
> The Romanian Ministry of Defense confirmed the fact of the accident.
> 
> ▪️The fighter jet disappeared from radar 13 minutes after takeoff from Mihail Kogalniceanu airbase. The plane was patrolling over Dobruja.
> 
> ▪️Local residents later reported on 112 that they heard an explosion and then noticed intense flames on the ground.
> 
> ▪️ Video shows the alleged crash site.
> 
> ❗️40 minutes after the disappearance of the MiG 21 Lancer from the radar, the Romanian Ministry of Defense reported a second plane crash.
> ▪️The IAR 303 Puma helicopter, sent to search for the missing aircraft, lost radio contact with the control room and also disappeared from radar. The pilot reported adverse weather conditions and was ordered to return to base.
> 
> ▪️ There were 5 people on board the helicopter, Romanian media reported.









the mig21 and the puma rescue chopper either really crashed due to bad weather or were shot down by the Russian Navy and nato is too scared to admit it since it doesn't wanna act on its article 5. This could be a litmus test from the Russians to see if nato has the guts to escalate...

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499472278152695808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499471777096998919

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## Madni Bappa

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499414786714619914
> *This can't be true! *


Translation plz


----------



## Titanium100

GumNaam said:


> View attachment 820515
> 
> 
> the mig21 and the puma rescue chopper either really crashed due to bad weather or were shot down by the Russian Navy and nato is too scared to admit it since it doesn't wanna act on its article 5. This could be a litmus test from the Russians to see if nato has the guts to escalate...



Most probably shoot down and the fact that they send out a freaking MIG of all planes was the reason it was shoot down as Ukraine has used MIGs to greater success


----------



## RescueRanger

*Russia* has taken in 47,800 refugees from Ukraine, Belarus 357. 






Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-60555472



Madni Bappa said:


> Translation plz


_The US now estimates that 90% of Russia's pre-trained combat power has crossed into Ukraine, a senior US Department of Defense official said._

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## OldTwilight

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499472278152695808
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499471777096998919



If Iran didn't fall under much harder sanction with too much more enemy and paying for war in Syria , then Russia won't fall with much more resources and assets and political power ... 

The western take themselves too seriously ...

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## Titanium100

RescueRanger said:


> *Russia* has taken in 47,800 refugees from Ukraine, Belarus 357.
> 
> View attachment 820516
> 
> 
> Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-60555472
> 
> 
> _The US now estimates that 90% of Russia's pre-trained combat power has crossed into Ukraine, a senior US Department of Defense official said._



Hahahah. No wonder 300 has only entered belarus that is a very difficult country to enter even from the airport and customs really suck. Belarus is a back-water and Lukashenko is one paranoid MOFO dictator as I have been there before.. You will even have to provide your hotel details for your duration visit or friends house.. The reason behind that is because according to him everyone is a potential CIA or conspiracy against him he has westophobia

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## FuturePAF

A good assessment of the failures and inadequacies so far in the Russian war effort.

The value of comms, logistics, and maintenance can’t be underscored enough. Also if there is about to be an amphibious invasion in the area of Odessa, you can sure bet the PLAN Marines will be watching very closely to see how it goes.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499438744495181830


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

President Zelensky called for the unity and support of his fellow Jews, reminding them about the specific history of Uman in Kyiv, the recent Russian bombing, what had taken place in that place during World War II, and how the Soviet Union dealt with it. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499470650007703553


----------



## coffee_cup

Once this crisis is over - and I truly hope, it will be soon - some heads in the US deep state must roll for bringing the planet to the brink of 3rd world war.

Starting from George Soros.

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## RescueRanger

Titanium100 said:


> Russia has taken this war as if they were waging a war against gog and magog but this is how you need to fight wars as if it is your last war. I respect this kind of mindset


Even then this is crazy if true, that is why I am having a hard time believing this is true, perhaps a little bit embellishment.

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## Madni Bappa

RescueRanger said:


> Cyka blyat


Piezdiets nahoy blyat mudak.


----------



## Titanium100

RescueRanger said:


> Even then this is crazy if true, that is why I am having a hard time believing this is true, perhaps a little bit embellishment.



Yeah I agree with you it is hard to believe that doesn't make sense and I would say approx 350.000 forces are inside Ukraine now and that includes Belarussians, DPR, LPR, Wagner group, Chechens, and the Russians armed forces..

The Russians armed forces reaches approx 1.1 million not counting Belarus, DPR, LPR, Chechens or Wagner just the russian armed forces. I would say there are approx 200.000 russian armed forces inside Ukraine the remaining 150.000 comes from the allied groups that tagged along

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## Madni Bappa

jhungary said:


> ex-Russian own sport car


And keep fixing it for rest of your life


----------



## Awan68

Lehrasap said:


> You seem to be a religious fanatic. I need not indulge in any discussion with you.


Branding others with a title and refusing debate points to the fact that u urself are a fanatic with a painfully limited mind. @The Eagle take notice of this.

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## RescueRanger

Pages 627 and a few others of the thread have some heated pseudo-religious / religious discussions. Please can I remind members politely to stay on topic, no personal attacks, be nice or get reported and enjoy your ban. It's up to you.

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## maverick1977

Paul2 said:


> They are already dumping dumb bombs from Tu-22, which is a heavy bomber by all definitions.
> 
> They will never risk strategic bombers there, but Tu-22 is ok


where did u get this news.. This is the first i heard.. only thing i heard was Su34 fullback.. pls share any link?


----------



## RescueRanger

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499438744495181830


Seems like they raided the magazine /cote of the reserves and museums and sent it all to Ukraine.

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## Titanium100

I like this Ukrainians spirit


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499466403589640199

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## RescueRanger

*Update*
*Ukraine and Russia tentatively agree to safe corridors, aid delivery*



Titanium100 said:


> I like this Ukrainians spirit
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499466403589640199


Weren't the British going to give the Ukrainian's frigates? Their flagship is ancient

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## Ich

nang2 said:


> The One Big Problem With Green Hydrogen
> 
> 
> By Irina Slav From a rarely mentioned, modest member of the renewable energy family to a headline-hogging clickbait, hydrogen has quickly turned from a prop to a star. There is a good reason for it: the most abundant chemical element in the universe can be harnessed to produce and store energy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> energycentral.com



Well, exactly this is what i mean with "ideological blinded or uninformedness". Thinking only in centralized hydrogen production cause of money generating let the people stay in dependens, do not make them independet. Also this "report" is based on old stuff. Meanwhile with electrolyse there are higher efficiency with 80% and more possible. 

Lets stop here cause it is now far off topic. 

Maybe there comes up a thread with this topic and we can discuss all facettes far more than here.


----------



## TheNoob

khansaheeb said:


> If you use a transmitter of same frequency it will cause the drone to go all over the place.



Ok, wow. 
I did not expect them to be THIS weak. :|

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## coffee_cup

RescueRanger said:


> *Update*
> *Ukraine and Russia tentatively agree to safe corridors, aid delivery*



Wow, this is a very good news! Lets hope and pray for the safe evacuation for the civilians!

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## sur

Zelensky reveals number of foreign ‘volunteers’ for Ukraine​3 Mar, 2022 14:46

The first of some *16,000 fighters have already arrived*, the Ukrainian president has said

Some 16,000 foreign_ “volunteers”_ are heading for Ukraine to fight against Russia, President Volodymyr Zelensky said on Thursday. The militants are coming as the country continues to receive lavish military aid from abroad, he added.

_“Ukraine continues to receive weaponry on a daily basis from our partners, from real friends. And the weapons are more and more powerful every day,”_ Zelensky said in a taped address shared on social media.

*Earlier, Ukraine announced the creation of an International Legion of Territorial Defense, a state-backed paramilitary *unit meant *for foreign fighters to join*. *Several European countries have already said they would not prevent their citizens* from traveling to fight in Ukraine.

International volunteers and alleged mercenaries have long been involved in the conflict in Ukraine’s east, where Kiev’s troops faced off against the breakaway republics of Donetsk and Lugansk. A week before Moscow launched its offensive against Ukraine, Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said it had observed an increase in mercenary hiring, alleging that the foreign fighters were bound for Donbass to prop up Ukraine’s military and target Russia elsewhere.

_“There’s information that mercenaries from Kosovo, Albania, and Bosnia and Herzegovina are being recruited to be transported to Donbass, and other nations, in order to destabilize Russia. We’re checking that,”_ Lavrov told RT back then.

Russia launched its large-scale military operation in neighboring Ukraine last week, arguing it was the only option left to protect Donetsk and Lugansk, as well as outlining goals to _“denazify”_ and _“demilitarize”_ the country. Kiev branded the attack _“unprovoked,”_ stressing that it has had no plans to retake the regions by force. Donetsk and Lugansk split from Ukraine back in 2014 following the Maidan events in Kiev that ousted the country’s government.




Putin comments on Russian offensive in Ukraine​
Russia’s president has announced financial support measures for troops and gave an update on current state of military conflict

Families of Russian soldiers who died in the line of duty in Ukraine are set to receive compensation of over seven million rubles ($65,000) from the government, President Vladimir Putin said on Thursday. Putin made the pledge during a meeting with the members of the country’s Security Council.

The leader has also refuted claims circulated by some media outlets that the payouts amount only to 11,000 rubles ($100). Those who were wounded are eligible for a lump sum of three million rubles ($28,000), while servicemen with permanent disabilities will receive lifetime pensions from Russia, according to the president.

The *offensive is proceeding strictly according to its “schedule,” Putin stressed*, while admitting certain issues were experienced during the military operation. For instance, the *Russian military has established safe corridors for Ukrainian civilians to escape the combat zone, yet local “neo-Nazi” forces and foreign “mercenaries” have been trying to prevent them from leaving*, he said.

_“Nationalist and neo-Nazi groups, *foreign mercenaries, including those from the Middle East*, are using civilians as human shields,”_ Putin stated. _“As I’ve already said, there is absolutely objective data, photos of *how they place heavy military equipment in residential areas of cities*.” [e.g. *see image below*]_

Russia’s president also reiterated his stance on Ukraine, and the goal of protecting it from the far-right groups that have seized control in the country.

_“Russians and Ukrainians are one nation, I will never give that up,”_ he stressed.





sur said:


> View attachment 820012
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 820013

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## RescueRanger

Regarding my previous posts about respecting POWs, after recent outcry on twitter of popular Ukranians taking selfies with injured POWs, *finally the Ukrainians are getting the message that this is NOT a good look:*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499330636355670021


coffee_cup said:


> Wow, this is a very good news! Lets hope and pray for the safe evacuation for the civilians!


Yes, InshaAllah


----------



## nang2

Ich said:


> Well, exactly this is what i mean with "ideological blinded or uninformedness". Thinking only in centralized hydrogen production cause of money generating let the people stay in dependens, do not make them independet. Also this "report" is based on old stuff. Meanwhile with electrolyse there are higher efficiency with 80% and more possible.
> 
> Lets stop here cause it is now far off topic.
> 
> Maybe there comes up a thread with this topic and we can discuss all facettes far more than here.


If you can do it without centralized production, you would have done it already. The fact that you are blaming for policy failure proves you DEPENDS on the centralized production, since you cannot pull it off in a decentralized way.


----------



## RescueRanger

sur said:


> Zelensky reveals number of foreign ‘volunteers’ for Ukraine​3 Mar, 2022 14:46
> 
> The first of some *16,000 fighters have already arrived*, the Ukrainian president has said
> 
> Some 16,000 foreign_ “volunteers”_ are heading for Ukraine to fight against Russia, President Volodymyr Zelensky said on Thursday. The militants are coming as the country continues to receive lavish military aid from abroad, he added.
> 
> _“Ukraine continues to receive weaponry on a daily basis from our partners, from real friends. And the weapons are more and more powerful every day,”_ Zelensky said in a taped address shared on social media.
> 
> *Earlier, Ukraine announced the creation of an International Legion of Territorial Defense, a state-backed paramilitary *unit meant *for foreign fighters to join*. *Several European countries have already said they would not prevent their citizens* from traveling to fight in Ukraine.
> 
> International volunteers and alleged mercenaries have long been involved in the conflict in Ukraine’s east, where Kiev’s troops faced off against the breakaway republics of Donetsk and Lugansk. A week before Moscow launched its offensive against Ukraine, Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said it had observed an increase in mercenary hiring, alleging that the foreign fighters were bound for Donbass to prop up Ukraine’s military and target Russia elsewhere.
> 
> _“There’s information that mercenaries from Kosovo, Albania, and Bosnia and Herzegovina are being recruited to be transported to Donbass, and other nations, in order to destabilize Russia. We’re checking that,”_ Lavrov told RT back then.
> 
> Russia launched its large-scale military operation in neighboring Ukraine last week, arguing it was the only option left to protect Donetsk and Lugansk, as well as outlining goals to _“denazify”_ and _“demilitarize”_ the country. Kiev branded the attack _“unprovoked,”_ stressing that it has had no plans to retake the regions by force. Donetsk and Lugansk split from Ukraine back in 2014 following the Maidan events in Kiev that ousted the country’s government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin comments on Russian offensive in Ukraine​
> Russia’s president has announced financial support measures for troops and gave an update on current state of military conflict
> 
> Families of Russian soldiers who died in the line of duty in Ukraine are set to receive compensation of over seven million rubles ($65,000) from the government, President Vladimir Putin said on Thursday. Putin made the pledge during a meeting with the members of the country’s Security Council.
> 
> The leader has also refuted claims circulated by some media outlets that the payouts amount only to 11,000 rubles ($100). Those who were wounded are eligible for a lump sum of three million rubles ($28,000), while servicemen with permanent disabilities will receive lifetime pensions from Russia, according to the president.
> 
> The *offensive is proceeding strictly according to its “schedule,” Putin stressed*, while admitting certain issues were experienced during the military operation. For instance, the *Russian military has established safe corridors for Ukrainian civilians to escape the combat zone, yet local “neo-Nazi” forces and foreign “mercenaries” have been trying to prevent them from leaving*, he said.
> 
> _“Nationalist and neo-Nazi groups, *foreign mercenaries, including those from the Middle East*, are using civilians as human shields,”_ Putin stated. _“As I’ve already said, there is absolutely objective data, photos of *how they place heavy military equipment in residential areas of cities*.” [e.g. *see image below*]_
> 
> Russia’s president also reiterated his stance on Ukraine, and the goal of protecting it from the far-right groups that have seized control in the country.
> 
> _“Russians and Ukrainians are one nation, I will never give that up,”_ he stressed.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 820523
> 
> 
> View attachment 820524


This is going to end really badly (Re Foreign Fighters) I wrote a detailed post about it here:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments






defence.pk


----------



## Titanium100

Putin says there are also groups from the middle east fighting alongside the Ukrainian armed forces

_“Nationalist and neo-Nazi groups, foreign mercenaries, including those from the Middle East, are using civilians as human shields,”_ Putin stated. _“As I’ve already said, there is absolutely objective data, photos of how they place heavy military equipment in residential areas of cities.”

Russia’s president also reiterated his stance on Ukraine, and the goal of protecting it from the far-right groups that have seized control in the country._

The question is who are these middle eastern? I think Syrian Ukrainians some of them have raised a platoon in the Armed forces and also Kurds and there are also Kurds in Azov Battlion which is strange but they have been white washed and perhaps they have apostated also and majority of kurds are anyways apostates


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

NA71 said:


> european military supply is getting through approval phase in different courtiers. .... while the Russians have completed siege of all major cities of strategic importance....in other words, these supplies may never reach the fighting hands....what a wicked game USA/EU is playing ...



Seems to me the Freemasonry world (read it as the Western world) is carrying out a huge human sacrifice in Ukraine in order to prepare for the imminent arrival of their "*anointed one*".

The last exodus of the "*Chosen*" will leave Europe and from the rest of the Freemasonry world. They'll take residence in the Holy Land - a land that they've already robbed from its indigenous inhabitants: The people of Shaam.

People should understand that nothing happens in Europe and in the West by accident. *A huge event like this has a purpose*. And if we're alive that day once it is settled and done, we'll definitely know what was the whole purpose of his huge, unneeded, and uncalled-for human sacrifice in Europe again.

The wars imposed on Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Lebanon, Somalia, Turkiye, etc all had one purpose.

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## TheNoob

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It seems Russian intelligence is top-notch.



no, i would say the similar ethnicity across both sides of the border is the one play that makes it advantageous, but it works both ways.

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## RescueRanger

Russian forces have captured the key arterial routes around Mariupol:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499472714096070667
Translation (because some people can't be bothered to click on "translate") 

⚡️ Mariupol-Dnepropetrovsk highway controlled by DPR and RF ⚡️

This is reported by the sources of the project @wargonzoo at the forefront. The units of the Russian Federation and the DPR entered the highway connecting Mariupol and Dnepropetrovsk and entrenched themselves on it a few days ago.

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## Titanium100

Guerrilla war insurgency behind enemy lines starting to emerge.... 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499457615016964098
Fasten your seat-belts this is gonna be good


----------



## TheNoob

beijingwalker said:


> This is how valiantly Taiwan youth may fight
> 
> *Taiwan TV street interview: How Taiwanese youth think about "2 years Mandatory Military Service law"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Replies are: It's useless, people will refuse to go to war anyway.
> It's waste of time, it's just like a summer camp.
> We'll just die if going to a war, there's zero chance we can win a war over mainland China.
> Military training won't save our lives, and Taiwan's people are not united.
> 
> Question: If Taiwan goes to war with mainland China, would you like to join and fight?
> Reply: Certainly not, I'll find a place to hide
> We can fight but it's meaningless, we can never win.
> No one likes to go to war...
> Young people don't want to go to war and don't want to waste such a long time on military service
> I won't, I don't want to die. Life is meant for more meaningful things.
> 
> In the end of the interview, the host shows the answers for the 5 quesions on board, the most chosen one is: "Come on, stop fooling around, what's the point for this conscription law when no one wants to fight and no one wants to go to war?"



Ok, I say, I shall now leave PRC for Taiwan because women are different in this video.

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## Wood

RescueRanger said:


> *Update*
> *Ukraine and Russia tentatively agree to safe corridors, aid delivery*
> 
> 
> Weren't the British going to give the Ukrainian's frigates? Their flagship is ancient


How can the Ukrainians train the crew for operating such NATO equipment? I don't think big ticket items can be easily absorbed


----------



## srshkmr

RescueRanger said:


> Russian forces have captured the key arterial routes around Mariupol:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499472714096070667
> Translation (because some people can't be bothered to click on "translate")
> 
> ⚡️ Mariupol-Dnepropetrovsk highway controlled by DPR and RF ⚡️
> 
> This is reported by the sources of the project @wargonzoo at the forefront. The units of the Russian Federation and the DPR entered the highway connecting Mariupol and Dnepropetrovsk and entrenched themselves on it a few days ago.


There is no easy translate on embedded twitter. You have to redirect to twitter to translate


----------



## Meengla

It appears Ukraine will be a landlocked country soon and for the foreseeable future. Russians are determined to achieve that goal and of course to create several hundred miles of buffer zone in eastern Ukraine. I think they will achieve those objectives and should stop right there or at most not beyond the Dnieper River. If the French President's statement from today is true then Russia wants to occupy whole Ukraine. I would say that is cruel and unnecessary. Get the neutrality agreement from Ukraine and stop the slaughter!

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## RescueRanger

Titanium100 said:


> Guerrilla war insurgency behind enemy lines starting to emerge
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499457615016964098


Were the crew in that vehicle sleeping? It looked static.



Meengla said:


> It appears Ukraine will be a landlocked country soon and for the foreseeable future. Russians are determined to achieve that goal and of course to create several hundred miles of buffer zone in eastern Ukraine. I think they will achieve those objectives and should stop right there or at most not beyond the Dnieper River. If the French President's statement from today is true then Russia wants to occupy whole Ukraine. I would say that is cruel and unnecessary. Get the neutrality agreement from Ukraine and stop the slaughter!


Yes appears that way.

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## Gripen9

RescueRanger said:


> Yes as I found out when we used to play with the old Cystal powered RC model aircraft in college. Same frequency and suddenly... Cyka blyat!


blyat blyat suka blyat! my new favorite curse phrase

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## RescueRanger

Wood said:


> How can the Ukrainians train the crew for operating such NATO equipment? I don't think big ticket items can be easily absorbed


It was part of a package which included upgrading and upskilling the Ukranian Navy.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499444779012218890

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## nang2

Meengla said:


> It appears Ukraine will be a landlocked country soon and for the foreseeable future. Russians are determined to achieve that goal and of course to create several hundred miles of buffer zone in eastern Ukraine. I think they will achieve those objectives and should stop right there or at most not beyond the Dnieper River. If the French President's statement from today is true then Russia wants to occupy whole Ukraine. I would say that is cruel and unnecessary. Get the neutrality agreement from Ukraine and stop the slaughter!


I think Russia will pursuit complete occupation to use it as a bargaining chip. During negotiation, there has to be some give and take. Russia won't just stop at the place where it will eventually end up with. If it can occupy the western part, it can use it to negotiate for lifting sanction and neutrality agreement.

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## PakAlp

Meengla said:


> It appears Ukraine will be a landlocked country soon and for the foreseeable future. Russians are determined to achieve that goal and of course to create several hundred miles of buffer zone in eastern Ukraine. I think they will achieve those objectives and should stop right there or at most not beyond the Dnieper River. If the French President's statement from today is true then Russia wants to occupy whole Ukraine. I would say that is cruel and unnecessary. Get the neutrality agreement from Ukraine and stop the slaughter!



03/03/2022 update. Look like they still planning to create East Ukraine along the blue line

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## The SC

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It seems Russian intelligence is top-notch.


They are a space power with a lot of spy satellites..

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## Titanium100

RescueRanger said:


> Were the crew in that vehicle sleeping? It looked static.
> 
> 
> Yes appears that way.



I don't think they say it coming and thats the thing with hit and run then vanishing into thin air


----------



## RescueRanger

The head of Russia's space agency has suggested American astronauts use "broomsticks" to get into orbit after it halted the supply of rocket engines to the United States.









Russia says NASA can use "broomsticks" after stopping rocket engine sales


Dmitry Rogozin, the head of Russia's space agency, said it could "no longer supply the U.S. with our rocket engines that are the best in the world."




www.newsweek.com


----------



## nang2

Titanium100 said:


> I don't think they say it coming and thats the thing with hit and run then vanishing into thin air


Soon, they would shoot at any civilian vehicle that approaches them. Then the world will blame Russia for cruelty.



RescueRanger said:


> The head of Russia's space agency has suggested American astronauts use "broomsticks" to get into orbit after it halted the supply of rocket engines to the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia says NASA can use "broomsticks" after stopping rocket engine sales
> 
> 
> Dmitry Rogozin, the head of Russia's space agency, said it could "no longer supply the U.S. with our rocket engines that are the best in the world."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newsweek.com


SpaceX would get more contracts this time.

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## RescueRanger

Titanium100 said:


> I don't think they say it coming and thats the thing with hit and run then vanishing into thin air


It makes no sense how the Russians are operating no force protection, no situational awareness...


----------



## Madni Bappa

Gripen9 said:


> blyat blyat suka blyat! my new favorite curse phrase


Derelict Eastern European slav country starter pack.

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## Ich

nang2 said:


> If you can do it without centralized production, you would have done it already. The fact that you are blaming for policy failure proves you DEPENDS on the centralized production, since you cannot pull it off in a decentralized way.



LOL

Think about: If you can loose your job or get humiliated on the street if you do not have the same oppinion as the gov, and the gov do not want hydrogen economy, how easy would it be for normal people to go full hydrogen? Whereas if you do something with batteries or windmills , you get much much subsidies. For hydrogen -> energie self-sufficiency - you get nothing.

You know nothing about Germany. And also only a little about hydrogen economy. 

End of discussion.

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## Titanium100

Madni Bappa said:


> Derelict Eastern European slav country starter pack.
> View attachment 820541



The Adidas or sport track suit never gets old and always cracks me up.. That is the most Russian thing

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## nang2

Ich said:


> LOL
> 
> Think about: If you can loose your job or get humiliated on the street if you do not have the same oppinion as the gov, and the gov do not want hydrogen economy, how easy would it be for normal people to go full hydrogen? Whereas if you do something with batteries or windmills , you get much much subsidies. For hydrogen -> energie self-sufficiency - you get nothing.
> 
> You know nothing about Germany. And also only a little about hydrogen economy.
> 
> End of discussion.


Well, then it is too bad for you. You have a government that controls too much. I guess Germany isn't as free as I thought.

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## Meengla

nang2 said:


> I think Russia will pursuit complete occupation to use it as a bargaining chip. During negotiation, there has to be some give and take. Russia won't just stop at the place where it will eventually end up with. If it can occupy the western part, it can use it to negotiate for lifting sanction and neutrality agreement.



I think they could have a bargaining position by limiting to eastern Ukraine. Why slaughter your own and others?? It's repugnant!!

So is Russia holding back from using its full force? Per this article, yes. 









US doesn't stand 'a fighting chance' if Russia and China combine cyber tech, former Pentagon official says


The former chief software officer for the Air Force said it would be a "game changer" in the Ukrainian conflict if China shared technological capabilities with Russia.




www.foxnews.com






China may already be sharing data with Russia, and America wouldn't stand "a fighting chance" if the two superpowers combined their cyberwarfare capabilities, the U.S. Air Force's former chief software officer told Fox News.

"Not many nations would be able to push back," Nicolas Chaillan told Fox News. "*I don't even think the United States would be able to push back if tomorrow Russia and China decide to come together against us*." [He is referring to the cyber warfare, I think]

"I think it would be very difficult for us to be able to even have a fighting chance, let alone a nation like Ukraine," he added. 

*Chaillan said "this is not the full force of the Russian capabilities," which he called "tremendous."

"They have not used the most innovative capabilities yet," Chaillan told Fox News. "They're focusing on the more traditional warfighting capabilities."*

"We have to be cautious. I always remind people that [Russian] President [Vladimir] Putin is not stupid," Chaillan said. "We may not yet understand what his plan was all along."

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## NotSure

Look at his face and his condition. Yep, he is clearly winning the war, only a winner can have this amount of vigor and energy. Or maybe i am wrong, a russian air strike or so destroyed his cocaine supply, who knows. Maybe he should try pervitin, to have more energy ...

At around 3:28 the best part starts:


----------



## Madni Bappa

PakAlp said:


> 03/03/2022 update. Look like they still planning to create East Ukraine along the blue line
> 
> View attachment 820538


If Russia really wants to create Eastern Ukraine the boundary will more likely look like this(Green line):

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## TheNoob

nang2 said:


> Soon, they would shoot at any civilian vehicle that approaches them. Then the world will blame Russia for cruelty.
> 
> 
> SpaceX would get more contracts this time.


SpaceX will also drive the prices up.


----------



## PakAlp

nang2 said:


> I think Russia will pursuit complete occupation to use it as a bargaining chip. During negotiation, there has to be some give and take. Russia won't just stop at the place where it will eventually end up with. If it can occupy the western part, it can use it to negotiate for lifting sanction and neutrality agreement.


It will be difficult to take West Ukraine, not saying its not possible but Russia will have alot more backlash, protests and insurgency. Its better to create Eastern Ukraine and arm it to neutralise West Ukraine. Bring peace to the country.

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## Titanium100

NotSure said:


> Look at his face and his condition. Yep, he is clearly winning the war, only a winner can have this amount of vigor and energy. Or maybe i am wrong a a russian air strike or so destroyed his cocaine supply, who knows. Maybe he should take a lesson from his role model and start takin pervitin, to have more energy.
> 
> At around 3:28 the best part starts:



Looks more like weed but not cocain as that gives different symtoms but this looks like lack of Hashish


----------



## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499420630571261958

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## nang2

Meengla said:


> I think they could have a bargaining position by limiting to eastern Ukraine. Why slaughter your own and others?? It's repugnant!!
> 
> So is Russia holding back from using its full force? Per this article, yes.


It is a war so it is always repugnant. In a war, you try to get something by killing. The goal is to get that something. Killing is just the means to an end. If you don't get the thing you wanted, then all the killing, especially the suffering of your own people and soldiers, is wasted. It is not for the soft-hearted, who may end up causing more killing by prolonging the war.

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## Ali_Baba

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499406863250644993



She had no idea how to react to that - classy!


----------



## RescueRanger

Meengla said:


> I think they could have a bargaining position by limiting to eastern Ukraine. Why slaughter your own and others?? It's repugnant!!
> 
> So is Russia holding back from using its full force? Per this article, yes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US doesn't stand 'a fighting chance' if Russia and China combine cyber tech, former Pentagon official says
> 
> 
> The former chief software officer for the Air Force said it would be a "game changer" in the Ukrainian conflict if China shared technological capabilities with Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.foxnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China may already be sharing data with Russia, and America wouldn't stand "a fighting chance" if the two superpowers combined their cyberwarfare capabilities, the U.S. Air Force's former chief software officer told Fox News.
> 
> "Not many nations would be able to push back," Nicolas Chaillan told Fox News. "*I don't even think the United States would be able to push back if tomorrow Russia and China decide to come together against us*." [He is referring to the cyber warfare, I think]
> 
> "I think it would be very difficult for us to be able to even have a fighting chance, let alone a nation like Ukraine," he added.
> 
> *Chaillan said "this is not the full force of the Russian capabilities," which he called "tremendous."
> 
> "They have not used the most innovative capabilities yet," Chaillan told Fox News. "They're focusing on the more traditional warfighting capabilities."*
> 
> "We have to be cautious. I always remind people that [Russian] President [Vladimir] Putin is not stupid," Chaillan said. "We may not yet understand what his plan was all along."


I agree with this analysis and its very concerning if you think about it. I don't think China will get involved in any conflict, not even a limited offensive cyber capability.

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## nang2

TheNoob said:


> SpaceX will also drive the prices up.


Time to buy its stock?

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## RescueRanger

nang2 said:


> Time to buy its stock?


Shame its not a publicly floated company.

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## TheNoob

nang2 said:


> Time to buy its stock?



no, I absolutely hate Elon and his ways.
He can go to hell for all I care. 




Meengla said:


> I think they could have a bargaining position by limiting to eastern Ukraine. Why slaughter your own and others?? It's repugnant!!
> 
> So is Russia holding back from using its full force? Per this article, yes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US doesn't stand 'a fighting chance' if Russia and China combine cyber tech, former Pentagon official says
> 
> 
> The former chief software officer for the Air Force said it would be a "game changer" in the Ukrainian conflict if China shared technological capabilities with Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.foxnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China may already be sharing data with Russia, and America wouldn't stand "a fighting chance" if the two superpowers combined their cyberwarfare capabilities, the U.S. Air Force's former chief software officer told Fox News.
> 
> "Not many nations would be able to push back," Nicolas Chaillan told Fox News. "*I don't even think the United States would be able to push back if tomorrow Russia and China decide to come together against us*." [He is referring to the cyber warfare, I think]
> 
> "I think it would be very difficult for us to be able to even have a fighting chance, let alone a nation like Ukraine," he added.
> 
> *Chaillan said "this is not the full force of the Russian capabilities," which he called "tremendous."
> 
> "They have not used the most innovative capabilities yet," Chaillan told Fox News. "They're focusing on the more traditional warfighting capabilities."*
> 
> "We have to be cautious. I always remind people that [Russian] President [Vladimir] Putin is not stupid," Chaillan said. "We may not yet understand what his plan was all along."



I liked reading this, but too bad its fox news.


----------



## nang2

PakAlp said:


> It will be difficult to take West Ukraine, not saying its not possible but Russia will have alot more backlash, protests and insurgency. Its better to create Eastern Ukraine and arm it to neutralise West Ukraine. Bring peace to the country.


Maybe not. The west Ukraine is largely bordering with Poland, which is a NATO member. If Russian army approaches to that border, Poland has to think more about how much help it can give to Ukrainian insurgency without bring the conflict to itself. If it doesn't think about that, other NATO members would think about that, because if Poland is attacked, all of them need to counterattack. That is close to WWIII.


----------



## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499483567474327552

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## TheNoob

Titanium100 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499483567474327552



These people are just overcomplicating matters.

Hopefully they get blocked and arrested on their way back to their homes.


----------



## The SC

Ukraine Armed Forces ⚔️ [Military Power]

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## Gripen9

Madni Bappa said:


> Derelict Eastern European slav country starter pack.
> View attachment 820541


LOL, my son used to have the same adidas track suit. I used to call it his Russian Gangster getup.

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## NotSure

Titanium100 said:


> Looks more like weed but not cocain as that gives different symtoms but this looks like lack of Hashish


I have not said he is on cocaine at the moment of this interview!


----------



## Ali_Baba

RescueRanger said:


> The head of Russia's space agency has suggested American astronauts use "broomsticks" to get into orbit after it halted the supply of rocket engines to the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia says NASA can use "broomsticks" after stopping rocket engine sales
> 
> 
> Dmitry Rogozin, the head of Russia's space agency, said it could "no longer supply the U.S. with our rocket engines that are the best in the world."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newsweek.com



Not a problem - it was NASA who saved the Russian space programme as the Ruskies had run out of money - i guess this time - the Russian space programme will be allowed to die - the same way as the russian economy.


----------



## Tamerlane

Ich said:


> LOL
> 
> Think about: If you can loose your job or get humiliated on the street if you do not have the same oppinion as the gov, and the gov do not want hydrogen economy, how easy would it be for normal people to go full hydrogen? Whereas if you do something with batteries or windmills , you get much much subsidies. For hydrogen -> energie self-sufficiency - you get nothing.
> 
> You know nothing about Germany. And also only a little about hydrogen economy.
> 
> End of discussion.



I'm in favor of hydrogen and I think it will be huge in the future. According to the Canadian Hydrogen Strategy document it will be a $11+ trillion industry by 2050.

Having said that, a country like Germany will only be switching from imported gas to imported hydrogen. Gas is the cheapest feedstock for producing hydrogen and the biggest producers will be countries with large reserves of gas. Producing green hydrogen from electricity is very expensive at the moment but will get cheaper. For Germany to produce large amounts of green Hydrogen the only option will be to build dozens of nuclear plants. Not a quick or cheap solution.


----------



## Titanium100

NotSure said:


> I have not said he is on cocaine at the moment of this interview!



You meant cold turkey?


----------



## Ali_Baba

The SC said:


> Ukraine Armed Forces ⚔️ [Military Power]



It is a shame they could not do anything useful with those missile rockets before they got blown up! A small attack against a Russian airfield was all they managed before they were destroyed in cruise missile strikes.


----------



## RescueRanger

Titanium100 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499483567474327552


Yeah, lets have another endless war! Besides the combat chasers who are skilled enough for this kind of theater have already been on the ground for several months, the ones that turn up now will be the following:

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## Ali_Baba

Russian to impose Martial Law :









How imposing martial law would enable Vladimir Putin to crush dissent in Russia


Fears Kremlin will suspend civil law, giving it free rein to tighten censorship, ban protests against Ukraine invasion and shut borders




www.telegraph.co.uk





(it must be going really well for them to consider that .. )


----------



## NotSure

Titanium100 said:


> You meant cold turkey?


I meant you should better read my post and not focus yourself on the cocaine joke ...


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499449852610162696

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## reflecthofgeismar

Imran Khan said:


> every armed force in pakistan have them
> 
> View attachment 820494


Pakistani John Thicc

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## Madni Bappa

Titanium100 said:


> The Adidas or sport track suit never gets old and always cracks me up.. That is the most Russian thing

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## RescueRanger

From Turkey with love. (Before any Ertagul fans freak out - its fake)


Spoiler: Click to check

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## Mercenary

I think Russia should start its own version of NATO.

Call it EATO (Euro-Asian Treaty Organization)

Member states will be:
Russia
Belarus
Kazakhstan
Uzbekistan
Tajikistan
Kyrgyzstan
Turkmenistan
Mongolia
China 

Iran, Turkey, Pakistan and North Korea can join later

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## Madni Bappa

NotSure said:


> Look at his face and his condition. Yep, he is clearly winning the war, only a winner can have this amount of vigor and energy. Or maybe i am wrong, a russian air strike or so destroyed his cocaine supply, who knows. Maybe he should try pervitin, to have more energy ...
> 
> At around 3:28 the best part starts:


Guy looks like he took some drug or alcohol man sheeeet


----------



## Ali_Baba

Russian convoy’s advance on Kyiv deflated by flat tyres and Ukrainian mud


Experts suggest 'truck maintenance corruption' and the changing weather are combining to cause havoc for Vladimir Putin's invading forces




www.telegraph.co.uk





Russian convoy’s advance on Kyiv deflated by flat tyres and Ukrainian mud​
"When you leave military truck tires in one place for months on end. The side walls get rotted/brittle such that using low tire pressure setting for any appreciable distance will cause the tires to fail catastrophically via rips."


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499490260895608844


----------



## Madni Bappa

kursed said:


> US establishment suddenly remembering a nation that went toe to toe with the Soviets at the height of their power.. on their behalf and well, won the damned thing.
> 
> Trying to find a Pakistan on NATO territory. =)
> 
> View attachment 820507
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO Countries Pour Weapons Into Ukraine, Risking Conflict With Russia
> 
> 
> Brussels is proud to be providing military aid, but Moscow may see it as a dangerous intervention.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proper Teri yaad ai, teray janay kay baad scene. =P
> 
> "Pakistanis were not intimidated by the Soviets" - Bruce Ridel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could Ukraine be Putin’s Afghanistan?
> 
> 
> As Russia invades Ukraine, Bruce Riedel reflects on the insurgency against the Soviet occupation in Afghanistan in the 1980s and lessons for the new war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.brookings.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 820508
> View attachment 820509


Two faced white snakes


----------



## torik

Mercenary said:


> I think Russia should start its own version of NATO.
> 
> Call it EATO (Euro-Asian Treaty Organization)
> 
> Member states will be:
> Russia
> Belarus
> Kazakhstan
> Uzbekistan
> Tajikistan
> Kyrgyzstan
> Turkmenistan
> Mongolia
> China
> 
> Iran, Turkey, Pakistan and North Korea can join later


There was


----------



## RescueRanger

Russian military has launched an attack on the town of Enerhodar - 47.509975369609386, 34.61775088878041
Enerhodar is home to Europe's Largest Nuclear Power Plant. 
Source: Al Jazeera


----------



## NotSure

Madni Bappa said:


> Guy looks like he took some drug or alcohol man sheeeet


Maybe, but clearly a huge lack of sleep. And now compare Putins speech and he is nearly 30 years older ...

Btw: Welt is like the BILD a part of Axel Springer, an american propaganda outlet established 1949.


----------



## Madni Bappa

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499490260895608844


There is so much confusion man. This could just be vigilante justice. Since there are so many Nazi groups and literal criminals who have now been armed by Ukrainian government


----------



## beast89

Titanium100 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499483567474327552


he's clearly from the swedish far right.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499495686416572417

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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499490260895608844


This is just the beginning, with every degenerate from Europe and elsewhere joining the "Ukrainian Foreign Legion" expect to see a very Destabilizing effect on law, order, security.


----------



## Gripen9

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499490260895608844


another use of SaranWrap!



RescueRanger said:


> This is just the beginning, with every degenerate from Europe and elsewhere joining the "Ukrainian Foreign Legion" expect to see a very Destabilizing effect on law, order, security.


add to it free automatic weapons provided to anyone who wants it by Ukrainian Gov.

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## beast89

TheNoob said:


> These people are just overcomplicating matters.
> 
> Hopefully they get blocked and arrested on their way back to their homes.


high chance he's a far right fanatic, just trying to be PR friendly cos he know he is doomed. He's probs with the avoz boys but he won't tell you that.

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## Ich

Tamerlane said:


> I'm in favor of hydrogen and I think it will be huge in the future. According to the Canadian Hydrogen Strategy document it will be a $11+ trillion industry by 2050.
> 
> Having said that, a country like Germany will only be switching from imported gas to imported hydrogen. Gas is the cheapest feedstock for producing hydrogen and the biggest producers will be countries with large reserves of gas. Producing green hydrogen from electricity is very expensive at the moment but will get cheaper. For Germany to produce large amounts of green Hydrogen the only option will be to build dozens of nuclear plants. Not a quick or cheap solution.



Do not think in centrlized hydrogen production. Centralized hydrogen production would change nothing. Not in prices, not in logistics, not in dependens of the people. The hydrogen production has to be on spot, at the place where it is needed.


----------



## RescueRanger

NotSure said:


> Look at his face and his condition. Yep, he is clearly winning the war, only a winner can have this amount of vigor and energy. Or maybe i am wrong, a russian air strike or so destroyed his cocaine supply, who knows. Maybe he should try pervitin, to have more energy ...
> 
> At around 3:28 the best part starts:


I don't want to attack a man who is leading his country so I wont comment on his appearance but here is a translation for those interested in the jist of what he is actually saying:

---
_What do you want us to give? Get off our land. If you don't want to leave, then sit with me and negotiate. I'm free. Just don't do it from 30 meters away like with Macron, Scholz, etc. I'm a neighbor after all. Don't put me 30 meters away. I don't bite, I'm a normal guy.

Sit with me. Let's talk. What are you afraid of? We don't threaten anyone. We're not terrorists. We don't rob banks. And we don't rob foreign lands._
---
Thank you to a nice Russian on twitter @_tsarlet for the kind translation.

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## Madni Bappa

RescueRanger said:


> I don't want to attack a man who is leading his country so I wont comment on his appearance but here is a translation for those interested in the jist of what he is actually saying:
> 
> ---
> _What do you want us to give? Get off our land. If you don't want to leave, then sit with me and negotiate. I'm free. Just don't do it from 30 meters away like with Macron, Scholz, etc. I'm a neighbor after all. Don't put me 30 meters away. I don't bite, I'm a normal guy.
> 
> Sit with me. Let's talk. What are you afraid of? We don't threaten anyone. We're not terrorists. We don't rob banks. And we don't rob foreign lands._
> ---
> Thank you to a nice Russian on twitter @_tsarlet for the kind translation.


Looks like the drugs talking man 😂

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## Titanium100

Madni Bappa said:


>


THIS IS GOLD


----------



## beast89



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## Piotr

Putin: Special Op in Ukraine Going According to Plan​5 hours ago






On Thursday, Russia's Defence Ministry spokesman, Igor Konashenkov, said that the West has increased the dispatch to Ukraine of contract soldiers from private military companies and several European countries are sending mercenaries.
The military operation in Ukraine is going according to plan, and all tasks are being implemented "successfully", Russian President Vladimir Putin said during his address to the Russian Security Council.

"Our soldiers fight steadfastly, with a full understanding of the justice of their cause, even after being wounded, they remain in formation, sacrifice themselves [...] in order to save comrades and civilians," Putin said, noting that Russian troops are striving to prevent civilian casualties in Ukraine.
Putin also said that nationalists and foreign mercenaries in Ukraine are using civilians as human shields. They have not kept their promise to remove heavy military equipment from residential areas, he continued.

"Instead of fulfilling promises to remove this equipment from residential areas, from kindergartens, hospitals, on the contrary, tanks, artillery, mortars are being additionally deployed there," he said.
Foreigners Held Hostage​The Russian president also said that foreign citizens are being held hostage in Ukraine: particularly, among them are some 3,179 citizens of India.

"Neo-Nazis also opened fire on Chinese students who were trying to leave Kharkov. Two of them were injured. I repeat: hundreds of foreigners are trying to leave the war zone, but they are not being allowed to do so," Putin stressed.
But the way "neo-nazis treat their own citizens" is even worse, according to him, as Russian soldiers have witnessed residents of apartment buildings being "herded into the middle floors of buildings", while in the lower floors "they break through windows and walls, put up heavy equipment there". On the roofs and on the upper floors, machine guns and snipers are placed, the president said.
Still, the Russian troops "have provided corridors in all collision zones without exception, provided transport so that civilians, foreign citizens have the opportunity to go to a safe place" - something that "nationalists do not allow to be done", Putin outlined.

Putin's address came shortly after Russia's Defence Ministry spokesman, Igor Konashenkov, said that the West has increased the dispatch to Ukraine of contract soldiers from private military companies, with the US military intelligence launching a massive campaign to recruit PMC contractors for Ukraine.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, in his turn, stated that Ukraine expects some 16,000 foreign mercenaries to come and fight for the country.
According to estimations from the Russian Defence Ministry, 200 Croatian mercenaries have already arrived in Ukraine, with the UK, Denmark, Latvia, and Poland also giving the green light to sending mercenaries there. Konashenkov said that foreign soldiers who are already in Ukraine "commit sabotage and raids on Russian convoys of equipment and material supplies, as well as aircraft covering them."

https://sputniknews.com/20220303/pu...use-civilians-as-human-shield-1093560887.html


----------



## NotSure

NotSure said:


> Look at his face and his condition. Yep, he is clearly winning the war, only a winner can have this amount of vigor and energy. Or maybe i am wrong, a russian air strike or so destroyed his cocaine supply, who knows. Maybe he should try pervitin, to have more energy ...
> 
> At around 3:28 the best part starts:


----------



## RescueRanger

Spoiler: Distressing Video of an attack on a residential complex





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499501773458968581



Above video is a few hours old, apparently a massive missile struck a residential complex in the city of Chernihiv - many civilians killed and injured. In line with forum rules I have not posted the video merely the link should you wish to watch it.

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## TNT

Meengla said:


> It appears Ukraine will be a landlocked country soon and for the foreseeable future. Russians are determined to achieve that goal and of course to create several hundred miles of buffer zone in eastern Ukraine. I think they will achieve those objectives and should stop right there or at most not beyond the Dnieper River. If the French President's statement from today is true then Russia wants to occupy whole Ukraine. I would say that is cruel and unnecessary. Get the neutrality agreement from Ukraine and stop the slaughter!



And how much worth is a guarantee on a piece of paper for the western countries? Even after signing agreement and not joining NATO, Ukraine will be heavily funded, rebuilt, armed and trained and who knows in 20 years time they rise up again or get nukes.
The only guarantee of a buffer is for Russia to hold it. I think the Russians want to carve out eastern and southern ukrain, as independent sates/states that may one day vote to be annexed with Russia. This way they put distance between Moscow and a landlocked western Ukraine, that can be a NATO member. This also gives Russia more control in the black sea. We are focusing on land but the black sea is extremely important as well, Ukraine as a whole joining NATO would have meant the black sea belongs to NATO. I also think putin wants to capture kiyv and use it as a bargaining chip for the endgame

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## The SC

Madni Bappa said:


> There is so much confusion man. This could just be vigilante justice. Since there are so many Nazi groups and literal criminals who have now been armed by Ukrainian government


The far right in Ukraine is much worst than doing just that..

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## GumNaam

Meengla said:


> It appears Ukraine will be a landlocked country soon and for the foreseeable future. Russians are determined to achieve that goal and of course to create several hundred miles of buffer zone in eastern Ukraine. I think they will achieve those objectives and should stop right there or at most not beyond the Dnieper River. If the French President's statement from today is true then Russia wants to occupy whole Ukraine. I would say that is cruel and unnecessary. Get the neutrality agreement from Ukraine and stop the slaughter!


Putin isn't gonna occupy ukraine. it is very obvious since the Russian forces are deliberately moving slow. If their intention was to occupy ukraine, they would've arleady done so by moving at a lightening speed which the Russian forces are more than capable of. Their aim is to remove, perhaps arrest zelensky and install a pro-Russian government there, perhaps restore the last guy...the ukrainian people will far too tired and war wary to resist and ukraine will virtually have no military, it has already been virtually decimated. Russia will help the new government rebuild its military as pro-Russian and for the sole purpose of being an offensive buffer against nato.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499491012921724934

Reactions: Wow Wow:

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## RescueRanger

A Ukrainian solider poses with newly donated Yukon Nordforce XQ30 Thermal Image Scope:





*The Irony is these scopes are made in Russia. *

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499501136415543304


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

The SC said:


> The far right in Ukraine is much worst than doing just that..


You know, I watched that video of a residential building hit with a missile and I have to admit, it was hard. I wavered. Your very timely reminder of what this war is about has brought me back.



RescueRanger said:


> A Ukrainian solider poses with newly donated Yukon Nordforce XQ30 Thermal Image Scope:
> View attachment 820573
> 
> 
> *The Irony is these scopes are made in Russia. *


Even money there's a picture of her with some Nazi paraphernalia.

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## The SC

NotSure said:


>


The guy seems extremely tired.. just imagine all the tweets and reports he is getting from the battle fields and the politicians..

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## Vergennes

Another one...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499498437900914693

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499496567639785479

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499502232663998472

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## bobo6661

I hear nazi nazi but why no one talking about DNR LNR nazi ... Like putin supported nazis to create those 2 puppets but i guess its ok 



https://www.ifri.org/sites/default/files/atoms/files/rnv95_uk_likhachev_far-right_radicals_final.pdf

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499507436834758674

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## Wood

Ukraine jets hit Russian column; Russia has used thermobarics, Ukraine military says


Startling new claims in Russia's war on Ukraine by the head of Ukraine's defense intelligence agency.




www.militarytimes.com






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499459262627876865


----------



## RescueRanger

Wood said:


> Ukraine jets hit Russian column; Russia has used thermobarics, Ukraine military says
> 
> 
> Startling new claims in Russia's war on Ukraine by the head of Ukraine's defense intelligence agency.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.militarytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499459262627876865


By jets do they mean drones?


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499509365082103820

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499510795415310344

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## Kraetoz

Wood said:


> Ukraine jets hit Russian column; Russia has used thermobarics, Ukraine military says
> 
> 
> Startling new claims in Russia's war on Ukraine by the head of Ukraine's defense intelligence agency.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.militarytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499459262627876865


Congrats Moldova and Georgia would get free helmets and Javelins along with some chocolates.

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## The Eagle

Awan68 said:


> Branding others with a title and refusing debate points to the fact that u urself are a fanatic with a painfully limited mind. @The Eagle take notice of this.



I will urge all members to keep religion out of this topic please.

Regards

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## Madni Bappa

RescueRanger said:


> A Ukrainian solider poses with newly donated Yukon Nordforce XQ30 Thermal Image Scope:
> View attachment 820573
> 
> 
> *The Irony is these scopes are made in Russia. *


Peshmarga 2.0

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499507304529637389

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## Ali_Baba

According to BBC news night, turkey delivered a new batch of TB2 uav’s to Ukraine yesterday 😍..

update : confirmed.






Ukraine conflict: Turkey airlifts additional TB2 UCAVs to Ukraine


Turkey has airlifted additional Baykar Bayraktar TB2 unmanned combat aerial vehicles (UCAVs) to Ukraine.



www.janes.com

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## Kraetoz

Ali_Baba said:


> According to BBC news night, turkey delivered a new batch of TB2 uav’s to turkey yesterday 😍..


Turkey delivered to Turkey? 🤔

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499515531547791361

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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499507304529637389


Truer words haven't been said since the start of this crisis.

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## Ali_Baba

Kraetoz said:


> Turkey delivered to Turkey? 🤔


Typo … and fixed…

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## RescueRanger

Kraetoz said:


> Turkey delivered to Turkey? 🤔


I think he got a bit excited and got ahead of himself.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499515654587568134


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499515656219152424


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499515657720778753

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## Ali_Baba

Ruskies cry over loss of Ikea









Russian shoppers cram into IKEA for a final bargain as stores close


Shoppers swarmed to stores to pick up last-minute bargains in Moscow and St Petersburg as well as at Siberian outlets in Omsk and Novosibirsk, all of which closed their doors




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498236545584697345

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## Tamerlane

LeGenD said:


> Chechnya is part of Russia - very likely to be rebuild.
> 
> What about Syrian cities like Aleppo? Would Russia rebuild it?



I don't think that Russians will rebuild Aleppo. It can be rebuilt by Syrians, if Israel ever stops bombing them.

What I do believe is that if Russia didn't step in then after the regime change in Syria the Anglo-Zionist war machine would have levelled Iran by now and installed a puppet regime there. In that happens Pakistan can forgot about Baluchistan.

The sad reality is that the death and destruction in Muslim lands has been going on for over forty years, but Muslim rulers still don't get it. I haven't seen any united effort by 57 Muslim countries to put together any joint defense or development plan into effect. Their strategy seems to be to surrender to the enemy and hope they don't attack you.

At least there is a hope that with Russia breaking away from the West the Zionist war machine will slow down.

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## RescueRanger

Ali_Baba said:


> Ruskies cry over loss of Ikea
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian shoppers cram into IKEA for a final bargain as stores close
> 
> 
> Shoppers swarmed to stores to pick up last-minute bargains in Moscow and St Petersburg as well as at Siberian outlets in Omsk and Novosibirsk, all of which closed their doors
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk


Yes lets celebrate the collective punishment of a people who live in an authoritarian regime, because you know it's their fault the tanks and guns are in Ukraine, they signed the directives, they packed the care packages and waved those men to go marching into Ukraine.

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## Wood

RescueRanger said:


> By jets do they mean drones?





> The strikes, he said, are being conducted by Ukraine Su-24 and Su-25 fighter jets, artillery and missile barrages.


If claims are true, then Russia really did not have air superiority

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## Madni Bappa

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499496567639785479
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499502232663998472


The "World" seems to be very White

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## RescueRanger

Wood said:


> If claims are true, then Russia really did not have air superiority


Read this. 








The Mysterious Case of the Missing Russian Air Force


On the fifth day of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, one of many unanswered questions is why Russia has launched a military campaign at huge cost with maximalist objectives, and then declined to use the vast majority of its fixed wing combat aircraft.




rusi.org

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## jamal18

George Galloway. A bit long, but always entertaining. Not essential viewing.








RescueRanger said:


> Truer words haven't been said since the start of this crisis.


Simply brilliant. You won't hear that on the BBC.

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## beast89

Tamerlane said:


> I don't think that Russians will rebuild Aleppo. It can be rebuilt by Syrians, if Israel ever stops bombing them.
> 
> What I do believe is that if Russia didn't step in then after the regime change in Syria the Anglo-Zionist war machine would have levelled Iran by now and installed a puppet regime there. In that happens Pakistan can forgot about Baluchistan.
> 
> The sad reality is that the death and destruction in Muslim lands has been going on for over forty years, but Muslim rulers still don't get it. I haven't seen any united effort by 57 Muslim countries to put together any joint defense or development plan into effect. Their strategy seems to be to surrender to the enemy and hope they don't attack you.
> 
> At least there is a hope that with Russia breaking away from the West the Zionist war machine will slow down.


The gulf nations will always side with zionist same with the salafis

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## RescueRanger

jamal18 said:


> George Galloway. A bit long, but always entertaining. Not essential viewing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Simply brilliant. You won't hear that on the BBC.


I was introduced to this gentleman's politics during the Palestine conflict, I am a very big fan of this man and his voice for those who don't have one.

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## Tamerlane

Oublious said:


> lol
> 
> They build it for a price, Russian have destroyed and killed every fighter who have foughted in Checenya. Kadirov is puppet litteraly, you have to pay a price.
> 
> Why are chechens fighting in Ukrain today, what kind benefits do they have? Nothing, only thing is they have to pay the price, Russia have rebuild Grozny lol...
> 
> Russian are the biggest in assimilating millions muslims in catholics. They have erased muslim identity. But hey anti zionist Palestine and good to go, it seems people like you looks from a tunnel view on life. Give 20 years and that picture will turn in something else.



The past is the past. Our faith teaches us to forgive and forget and move on. If Chechens are willing to fight for Russia and sacrifice their lives then I'm sure they know why they're doing it. No one throws their lives away for someone they hate.

Russia doesn't have a clean history any more than anyone else. But they themselves have suffered the erasure of their history and culture by the (((Jewish))) Bolsheviks. Up to 20 million Russians were killed by the communists. The another 20-30 million were killed by the Nazis. That's a horrendous death toll, something Muslims haven't suffered since the Mongol invasions.

The Bolsheviks killed off the Russian royal family and almost erased Christianity from Russia. Putin has been trying to revive it. Christians have been victims along with Muslims.

The point is that we need to look to the future, not the past. If we can forgive and forget then Russia can be an ally. Otherwise Muslims can carry on doing what they've been doing, which doesn't seem to be leading anywhere.

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## gambit

RescueRanger said:


> Yes lets celebrate the collective punishment of a people who live in an authoritarian regime, because you know it's their fault the tanks and guns are in Ukraine, they signed the directives, they packed the care packages and waved those men to go marching into Ukraine.


But Poutine tacitly threatened other countries' citizens with nuclear war...

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## ZeEa5KPul

Russia's gone too far. This is too much, even for me.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499352901688385547


----------



## pkuser2k12



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## kursed

280 armored vehicles (Tanks and IFVs) taken out by 300 Javelins fired. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499470411964235781
Armor will have a very hard job at hand in next indo-pak conflict.

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## lightning F57

I think Russia will soon resort to continuous airstrikes and carpet bombing. They seem to be losing too many men and equipment and will likely take a more aggressive approach than currently which might be more cautious to avoid civilian deaths. It also might be their way to try and bring the conflict to an end soon and break Ukraines resolve.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499522295311781889

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## RescueRanger

The Ukrainian's have leveraged the internet and social media very effectively to create a network of "observers". A closed Telegram channel shared this guide which explains Russian vehicle markings:





*Signs I have been able to understand:*
Z - Western Military District (ZVO)
V - Eastern Military District (VVO)
/\ - Southern Military District
/ - Central Military District

The Ukranian's have then created a google doc where people can report sightings of the vehicles 







Original Document Translated Document

By leveraging social media (Telegram), the Internet and the public to act as observers, the Ukrainians have built an extensive HUMINT network which has been every effective to date and this explains why some of the defensive operations of the Ukrainians have been so successful.



gambit said:


> But Poutine tacitly threatened other countries' citizens with nuclear war...


But none of those citizens are struggling to get access to the basics of life. Lets be rational, punishing the people never works, show me one conflict where it has actually delivered results. Sanctions are fine, starve the bastard and his finances, but cancelling Russian Orchestra performances, authors, artists and turning people (ordinary Russians) into pariahs is counter-intuitive.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## SQ8

kursed said:


> 280 armored vehicles (Tanks and IFVs) taken out by 300 Javelins fired.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499470411964235781
> Armor will have a very hard job at hand in next indo-pak conflict.


Its the top down attack that the Javelin does that matters - no armor as such in that position. Same deal with CBU-105 skeets.. so it will be Pakistani armor that will have a very hard job at hand until PA also gets a top down ATGM.

That being said - the report doesn’t state which armor? T-72s, BMP-2s or MTLBs?
Armor is a very fickle term

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## Smoke

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Russia's gone too far. This is too much, even for me.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499352901688385547



But you're Canadian, you being spoken to impolitely is enough for you.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499528701788184585

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499530942741950465

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## kursed

SQ8 said:


> Its the top down attack that the Javelin does that matters - no armor as such in that position. Same deal with CBU-105 skeets.. so it will be Pakistani armor that will have a very hard job at hand until PA also gets a top down ATGM.
> 
> That being said - the report doesn’t state which armor? T-72s, BMP-2s or MTLBs?
> Armor is a very fickle term





SQ8 said:


> Its the top down attack that the Javelin does that matters - no armor as such in that position. Same deal with CBU-105 skeets.. so it will be Pakistani armor that will have a very hard job at hand until PA also gets a top down ATGM.
> 
> That being said - the report doesn’t state which armor? T-72s, BMP-2s or MTLBs?
> Armor is a very fickle term


Yep, just didn’t want to say it out loud. Given the other side’s weapons, Pakistani armor will face a very tough time.

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## RescueRanger

SQ8 said:


> Its the top down attack that the Javelin does that matters - no armor as such in that position. Same deal with CBU-105 skeets.. so it will be Pakistani armor that will have a very hard job at hand until PA also gets a top down ATGM.
> 
> That being said - the report doesn’t state which armor? T-72s, BMP-2s or MTLBs?
> Armor is a very fickle term


I remember we were shown this video on a course about stand off weapons and it still shocks me to this day. Bye Bye tank!

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## jamal18

RescueRanger said:


> I was introduced to this gentleman's politics during the Palestine conflict, I am a very big fan of this man and his voice for those who don't have one.


The mainstream media (msm) is now totally unreliable. Full of lies, drum beaters for the establishment. 'Alternative media', like him is the only way to go.

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## RescueRanger

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499528701788184585
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499530942741950465


To be expected, the had encircled it this afternoon.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499522380800184324

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499532693624791040

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499534145504038912

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## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499522380800184324
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499532693624791040


Extremely capable fighters.


----------



## jhungary

Madni Bappa said:


> And keep fixing it for rest of your life



Ex-Russian "Own", not a Russian Sport Car.

It would be an Audi or Ferrari or Beemer or something like that, it would have been the same no matter who owns it,

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## FuturePAF

FuturePAF said:


> A major development of this war; the new German Chancellor has made a speech where he said Germany will spend 100 billion euros on defense this year and go to the 2% minimum nato standard starting next year; which would put it at 70-75 billion euros depending on the size of the German economy. This is a signal that Germany is about to massively rearm and refurbish its equipment.
> 
> We can probably expect the Germans to finally go for the F-35 along with modernizing and buying more Eurofighters. The Germans will probably be building more subs and greatly increase the size of their armored corps.
> 
> Looks like we are back in the Cold War for sure.


A follow-up;

This a huge development, and maybe one of the long lasting shifts in European politics that shouldn’t be overlooked.

The Eurofighter will probably get massive funding to get modernized to deal with fifth Gen fighters more robustly, German tank force will be modernized, which could lead to advances in tank technology, and so on.








RescueRanger said:


> Extremely capable fighters.


All of Russia’s capabilities are being revealed. The reverse engineering departments in the US and the rest of NATO are gonna have a field day with this stuff, especially the EW equipment, after this war.

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## gambit

RescueRanger said:


> But none of those citizens are struggling to get access to the basics of life. Lets be rational, punishing the people never works, show me one conflict where it has actually delivered results. Sanctions are fine, starve the bastard and his finances, but cancelling Russian Orchestra performances, authors, artists and turning people (ordinary Russians) into pariahs is counter-intuitive.


You can consider this action by IKEA, and other businesses, as activist warfare. Instead of joining the military, use whatever leverage you have to act according to your conscience.


----------



## RescueRanger

gambit said:


> You can consider this action by IKEA, and other businesses, as activist warfare. Instead of joining the military, use whatever leverage you have to act according to your conscience.


In a country like Russia? With Putinsky at its helm? Two words = Blood Bath.


----------



## gambit

RescueRanger said:


> In a country like Russia? With Putinsky at its helm? Two words = Blood Bath.


Russians are protesting their own government. That is conscience in action outside of military actions. So the bloodbath are already inevitable.

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## RescueRanger

gambit said:


> Russians are protesting their own government. That is conscience in action outside of military actions. So the bloodbath are already inevitable.


I concur.


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499534160846888961

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499535651716452357

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## Hamartia Antidote

Live Kyiv


----------



## RescueRanger

Live webcam at NPP Zaporizhia Power Plant. Explosions.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499534962915221504

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## RescueRanger




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## Hamartia Antidote

FuturePAF said:


> A follow-up;
> 
> This a huge development, and maybe one of the long lasting shifts in European politics that shouldn’t be overlooked.
> 
> The Eurofighter will probably get massive funding to get modernized to deal with fifth Gen fighters more robustly, German tank force will be modernized, which could lead to advances in tank technology, and so on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All of Russia’s capabilities are being revealed. The reverse engineering departments in the US and the rest of NATO are gonna have a field day with this stuff, especially the EW equipment, after this war.



Wow Putin finally does everything Trump tried to accomplish with the EU in just a week.

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## Wergeland 2.0

FuturePAF said:


> A follow-up;
> 
> This a huge development, and maybe one of the long lasting shifts in European politics that shouldn’t be overlooked.
> 
> The Eurofighter will probably get massive funding to get modernized to deal with fifth Gen fighters more robustly, German tank force will be modernized, which could lead to advances in tank technology, and so on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All of Russia’s capabilities are being revealed. The reverse engineering departments in the US and the rest of NATO are gonna have a field day with this stuff, especially the EW equipment, after this war.



Germany arming itself means a arms race will begin in Europe. Russia will likely respond with more tactical nukes and hypersonic vehicles.

If there is no united european defence force it means the continent will be back to great power rivalry like in the old days. Which of course is beneficial to USA in many ways.

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## Khanate

*Press freedom under threat 😱*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499447876644065285

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## Hassan Al-Somal

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 820599





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499501736725262343

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## Hamartia Antidote

Zaporizhzhya Nuclear Power Plant​


----------



## RescueRanger

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499501736725262343


Its live on 3 webcams: 

here is one link:

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499536544486600706

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## RescueRanger

Column of vehicles moving in:

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## Khanate

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499501736725262343



Unconfirmed reports of fire


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499535843207389186

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## SQ8

The Russian military may eventually prevail but them is stuck in an insurgency. The Russian economy can’t support this invasion let alone an insurgency so these are the last days of Putin unless some godsend situation occurs for him.

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## RescueRanger

Khanate said:


> *Press freedom under threat 😱*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499447876644065285


Because the faceF___ algorithm recognizes the word AZOV which is still a prescribed organization, yet they have allowed people to post photos and stories about them. Bizzarro platform, I'm glad I don't use that trash social engineering trap.

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## Realtalk108

SQ8 said:


> The Russian military may eventually prevail but them is stuck in an insurgency. The Russian economy can’t support this invasion let alone an insurgency so these are the last days of Putin unless some godsend situation occurs for him.


 Ya insurgency is inevitable. Will be heavily supplied by NATO as well. 

The sanctions are comprehensive. They more or less sealed Russia off. China is the only major economy left that Russia can bank on.


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## Type59

Imran Khan said:


> every armed force in pakistan have them
> 
> View attachment 820494


That's cruel to mock fat copper.


----------



## RescueRanger

The powerplant complex is on fire, tracer rounds can be seen intermittently from the left of the screen.

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## SQ8

Realtalk108 said:


> Ya insurgency is inevitable. Will be heavily supplied by NATO as well.
> 
> The sanctions are comprehensive. They more or less sealed Russia off. China is the only major economy left that Russia can bank on.


And if the result is that China does keep Putin just about afloat while literally brain draining Russia of every piece of technology and getting ridiculous terms on fuels then it would be the real winner in this.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499545901496512512

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## Khanate

SQ8 said:


> The Russian military may eventually prevail but them is stuck in an insurgency. The Russian economy can’t support this invasion let alone an insurgency so these are the last days of Putin unless some godsend situation occurs for him.




Putin is 70. He knows he will not be around long.

And, so, this war is Putin's parting gift to the west.

Everything leading up to this war has been choreographed including Imran Khan visit to Russia on the eve of the war.

Putin's departure, whenever that comes, is part of this choreography.

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## SQ8

Khanate said:


> Putin is 70. He knows he will not be around long.
> 
> And, so, this war is Putin's parting gift to the west.
> 
> Everything leading up to this war has been choreographed including Imran Khan visit to Russia on the eve of the war.
> 
> Putin's departure, whenever that comes, is part of this choreography.


So Putin is scuttling Russia?


----------



## Wergeland 2.0

SQ8 said:


> The Russian military may eventually prevail but them is stuck in an insurgency. The Russian economy can’t support this invasion let alone an insurgency so these are the last days of Putin unless some godsend situation occurs for him.



If China could afford to fight America plus its allies at the height of Americas might during the 1950’s in Korea, why wouldnt Russia be able to do that with a relatively less power disparity.

This war boils down to what Russia decides is her priority. Wealth or survival?
Russia is in survival mode as it has been countless times before when it was attacked by West European powers; Napoleon, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, Hitler… and even from the east by Japan.

East Ukraine is easy to reconquor and control for Russia. Western Ukraine is a tougher task as it is more penetrated by Polish and German heritage. Russia may leave it to be a no mans land and let Hungary, Poland and Germany fight over it. Or it could take whole Ukraine and start a re-Russification.


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## Elias MC

This is crazy, the Zaporizhia nuclear power plant is the largest in Europe, if missiles fall there the disaster will be much bigger than Chernobyl and will affect all of Ukraine, Europe and part of Russia

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499514537460080643

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## Khanate

*Business is booming... 👍*




















SQ8 said:


> And if the result is that China does keep Putin just about afloat while literally brain draining Russia of every piece of technology and getting ridiculous terms on fuels then it would be the real winner in this.




Standard practice by China.

China does not pay premium prices like Europe for Russian oil and gas.

They will get an even better deal now and that too in yuan.




SQ8 said:


> So Putin is scuttling Russia?




Hardly.

Putin is changing the map and creating new realities in much the same way US and NATO have done for the last three decades.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499548007443968009





Russia's control of the nuclear plant will enable it to cut off electricity to the regions of central and eastern Ukraine..


----------



## kingQamaR

Apparently, russians are shooting at the power plant...god help us all



Elias MC said:


> This is crazy, the Zaporizhia nuclear power plant is the largest in Europe, if missiles fall there the disaster will be much bigger than Chernobyl and will affect all of Ukraine, Europe and part of Russia



Chernobyl times 20 if that is hit.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499473853113905159

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499551191277187072

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## Paul2

Khanate said:


> Putin is 70. He knows he will not be around long.
> 
> And, so, this war is Putin's parting gift to the west.
> 
> Everything leading up to this war has been choreographed including Imran Khan visit to Russia on the eve of the war.
> 
> Putin's departure, whenever that comes, is part of this choreography.



Yugoslavia 2.0



kingQamaR said:


> Apparently, russians are shooting at the power plant...god help us all
> 
> 
> 
> Chernobyl times 20 if that is hit.



A modern nuclear power plant can survive a hit by a small nuke

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499553397745365010


----------



## sur

RescueRanger said:


> This is going to end really badly (*Re Foreign Fighters*) I wrote a detailed post about it here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk



Here you go.

They are expecting [read planning] to turn it into an *insurgency* @9:53+ again @10:10+ they expect [plan] that *this will continue for a very long time, years*. @15:17+ *we're gonna help them fight* [a protracted insurgency]. [Instead of helping towards a ceasefire, will help them fight].


These instigators talk high of Ukrainian people, how children are suffering in NICUs, but *how do they plan to help mitigate those sufferings? By sending more Javelins and weapons* *and **insurgents**, instead of* hastily bringing a ceasefire solution!. In addition they will help the suffering Ukrainians by banning Russian oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil . . . goes on for half an hour.










SQ8 said:


> The Russian military may eventually prevail but them is *stuck in an insurgency*. The Russian economy can’t support this invasion let alone an insurgency so these are the last days of Putin unless some godsend situation occurs for him.



That may be the plan of instigators but *if Russians are successful at encircling the country, then insurgency won't get fuel and will wither soon*.
Probably *that's why instigators are in a rush to supply as much weapons* as quickly as possible, instead of rushing to achieve some sort of ceasefire.
"Hurry before our routes are blocked".

Why I'm feeling deja-vu I wonder? Hmm, oh yes, the 1000+ NATO containers unaccounted for in Pakistan.

Anyways, if they were sincere about Ukrainian civilians, as they _poorly_ pretend, then they would be heard talking about going to the table. Not the case here.



Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499515531547791361



*@4:23*+
Russians are _trying [not quite successful though] _to *not hit even the barracks of Ukrainian soldiers*. Only the infrastructure.









Ali_Baba said:


> Ruskies cry over loss of Ikea
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian shoppers cram into IKEA for a final bargain as stores close
> 
> 
> Shoppers swarmed to stores to pick up last-minute bargains in Moscow and St Petersburg as well as at Siberian outlets in Omsk and Novosibirsk, all of which closed their doors
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk



I think that's a cheap shot. 
*I see that much crowd in IKEA on a normal day*.

Westerners are seen twice a years, fighting on boxing day/black friday sales over a TV? I thought they were "_more civilized than Iraqis and Syrians/Libyans_"!!.
At least Russians were very disciplined.


(click to watch age-restricted video directly on YouTube instead of embedded here)















Hassan Al-Somal said:


> MEDIA=twitter]1499554819060682754


My thoughts on Zaporizhzhya Nuclear Power Plant footages:

If Russians were to take control of plant, they won't attack the plant itself.
If those CCTV show fires/explosions on the plant itself then it could possibly be the retreating ones sabotaging the plant.

Russian FM _Lavrov_ alluded to such acts by retreating Ukrainian army @2:10+ in his video above.

*And we have precedence of decommissioned Chernobyl nuclear plant under joint protection with Ukrainian forces*. Why would Russians do it differently with a working one.




RescueRanger said:


> So are we all in agreement Russia just committed a war crime live on candid camera:
> 
> Article 56 — Protection of works and installations containing dangerous forces:
> 
> 
> https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/assets/files/other/icrc_002_0321.pdf



Magnitude-wise, those fires and small duds seen on CCTV footage from reactor don't seem to coincide with what Russians have been firing so far on Ukraine.
Unless I missed any big ones!

I at first thought that was just arcing, as there must be electric grid. Or flares.

They did attack a dam though earlier. But they said it was to release the water of Crimea that was blocked. And it was more like a beaver dam with no catastrophic results. Just slowly flowing water.



"*Would you mind not shooting at the . . . *"

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## kingQamaR

has six reactors is on fire now


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499538465981181953


----------



## kingQamaR

Paul2 said:


> Yugoslavia 2.0
> 
> 
> 
> A modern nuclear power plant can survive a hit by a small nuke



If they blow up the power grid to cool it down you not going be stop meltdown

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499491284418977799


----------



## EAGLE777

Zelensky: Erdogan one of few leaders who has opportunity to convey to Russian president understanding it is necessary to end war

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is providing significant support to Ukraine and is taking many steps to end the war, President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky said.

"Honestly, I don't remember all the details, which of the representatives of Turkey could say this. Personally, we have strong personal relations with President Erdogan. Very good relations. Very warm relations. He helps - the issue is not only in drones, the fact that we bought drones there and this is a big help - there are many questions where Erdogan helped Ukraine. I am very grateful to him. At the political level, he also takes many steps so that the president of Russia has an understanding that the war needs to be ended," Zelensky told foreign journalists on Thursday, commenting on Turkey's refusal to join the sanctions against the Russian Federation.

"Not many world leaders have this opportunity. Many people want it, but few people have such an opportunity. It needs to be such a serious, powerful, influential state for everything, for geopolitics and for the global economy. And Erdogan is like that. He is very strong, he is a very serious president, and he helps. Therefore, I have no questions for him," he stressed.

Zelensky also expressed hope that in the future Turkey will become one of the guarantors of Ukraine's security and will influence the process of negotiations with the Russian Federation.

"I think that he is one of those guarantors of security for Ukraine, and he will definitely be one of those countries that should introduce security guarantees for Ukraine. When we sit down at the negotiating table, I believe in this, with the president of Russia, and it is these security guarantees that Ukraine should receive. Therefore, he will influence this process. I really believe in this," the president said.









Zelensky: Erdogan one of few leaders who has opportunity to convey to Russian president understanding it is necessary to end war


Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is providing significant support to Ukraine and is taking many steps to end the war, President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky said.




ua.interfax.com.ua


----------



## gambit

Paul2 said:


> A modern nuclear power plant can survive a hit by a small nuke


Was that ever verified with a live test? Just asking...


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499554819060682754

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## kingQamaR

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499491284418977799



How often are you going to post this garbage news channel on here one is more than enough

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## Bengal71

TNT said:


> And how much worth is a guarantee on a piece of paper for the western countries? Even after signing agreement and not joining NATO, Ukraine will be heavily funded, rebuilt, armed and trained and who knows in 20 years time they rise up again or get nukes.
> The only guarantee of a buffer is for Russia to hold it. I think the Russians want to carve out eastern and southern ukrain, as independent sates/states that may one day vote to be annexed with Russia. This way they put distance between Moscow and a landlocked western Ukraine, that can be a NATO member. This also gives Russia more control in the black sea. We are focusing on land but the black sea is extremely important as well, Ukraine as a whole joining NATO would have meant the black sea belongs to NATO. I also think putin wants to capture kiyv and use it as a bargaining chip for the endgame



Totally agree. I think the best will be for Russia is to take all of Ukraine and annex it. This is going to remove the threat permanently and give clear message what the consequence will be to NATO and other countries wanting to do the same in the future.


----------



## kingQamaR

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499554819060682754



I don’t know how to convince you, but RT has been misleading innocent people about Vladimir Putin’s Russian invasion of Ukraine. Please consider doing some research anywhere you like.


----------



## Paul2

gambit said:


> Was that ever verified with a live test? Just asking...



Ahem... Is an NPP going boom worse than a nuke going off near it?

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## xuxu1457

A large amount of fake news has been concocted, especially in the English media.

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## Khan vilatey

India reprimanded by US diplomats for supporting Russia.

How can the US do this to India, Oh, 80% of Indian export is to the west. India has a choice obey or starve!

K









India reprimanded by US on its stance on Ukraine


India reprimanded by US diplomats for supporting Russia not Ukraine. Why does US think it owns india oh, because 80% of Indian exports are to the west. Either India obeys or it starves K US recalls official memo that hammered nations for being ‘in Russia's camp’ The release of a...



defence.pk

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## Hassan Al-Somal

kingQamaR said:


> I don’t know how to convince you, but RT has been misleading innocent people about Vladimir Putin’s Russian invasion of Ukraine. Please consider doing some research anywhere you like.




Their coverage on the war is actually more balanced. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499525786537271298

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## Meengla

TNT said:


> And how much worth is a guarantee on a piece of paper for the western countries? Even after signing agreement and not joining NATO, Ukraine will be heavily funded, rebuilt, armed and trained and who knows in 20 years time they rise up again or get nukes.
> The only guarantee of a buffer is for Russia to hold it. I think the Russians want to carve out eastern and southern ukrain, as independent sates/states that may one day vote to be annexed with Russia. This way they put distance between Moscow and a landlocked western Ukraine, that can be a NATO member. This also gives Russia more control in the black sea. We are focusing on land but the black sea is extremely important as well, Ukraine as a whole joining NATO would have meant the black sea belongs to NATO. I also think putin wants to capture kiyv and use it as a bargaining chip for the endgame



You are thinking too far ahead, friend. This all will be sorted by time and perhaps in the lifetime of many of the forum members here if given time. I have been repeatedly saying: Putin is a once in a century guy. Let him pass away and things will fall in place. I have been saying the next leader in Russia would be at best another Medvedev or at worst another Yeltsin. Russia, from the west of the Urals, is destined to become part of Europe. Let time be given But some warmongers in America couldn't wait to get to the enormous Russian natural resources.

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## Bengal71

RescueRanger said:


> By jets do they mean drones?



I want to know that too. Ukr should not have any airforce left.

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## Meengla

SQ8 said:


> And if the result is that China does keep Putin just about afloat while literally brain draining Russia of every piece of technology and getting ridiculous terms on fuels then it would be the real winner in this.



China is the biggest victor in this war--closely followed by America. Russia, Ukraine, Europe, and if the war spreads out conventionally or nuclear, then even Pakistan, which is only one country removed from Europe, could be the losers. IF and only IF those weapons being let lose in this war end up with various groups who are fighting there and the whole order falls apart then anything is possible. Chechens with Stingers? Or imagine other possibilities. 
Eurasian continent is cursed!!

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## RescueRanger

So are we all in agreement Russia just committed a war crime live on candid camera:

Article 56 — Protection of works and installations containing dangerous forces:


https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/assets/files/other/icrc_002_0321.pdf

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499557618603507713

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## CrazyZ

kingQamaR said:


> has six reactors is on fire now


All Zelensky had to do to aviod this was say Ukraine would not join NATO.

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## beast89

CrazyZ said:


> All Zelensky had to do to aviod this was say Ukraine would not join NATO.


elect a comedian get clown results

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## Khanate

*Meow meow... 😺




*

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## CrazyZ

beast89 said:


> elect a comedian get clown results


War mongering European tree huggers are about to be radiated.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499563412812091400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499562515340177416

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## RescueRanger

xuxu1457 said:


> A large amount of fake news has been concocted, especially in the English media.


Blame the panicking Ukrainian government who have peddled out some pretty scary statements in the last 52 mins.

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## Song Hong

Chechen fighting in Ukraine.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499563881097838594


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## RescueRanger

Very pertinent discussion on AJN right now about nuclear facility safety and integrity.

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## gambit

CrazyZ said:


> All Zelensky had to do to aviod this was say Ukraine would not join NATO.


But Russia made a *WRITTEN* promise not to attack Ukraine if Ukraine give up 1700 nuclear warheads.



beast89 said:


> elect a comedian get clown results


Zelensky maybe a comedian, but Poutine is the joke.

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## khansaheeb

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499444779012218890


Seems like the Russians made a big big mistake in their strategy. By the summer the Russian bear will look like this:-

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## RescueRanger

khansaheeb said:


> Seems like the Russians made a big big mistake in their strategy. By the summer the Russian bear will look like this:-
> 
> View attachment 820626


Consider this thread for a moment:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499282732307779587

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## EAGLE777

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499554819060682754


It's getting out of control both sides behaving extremely reckless i mean they even launched rpg's there.

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## jhungary

US operations of RT close and staff laid off after carriers cut ties with Russian-owned TV network​
The US version of Russia’s state-owned TV network Russia Today has closed and its staff have been laid off after several carriers cut ties following Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine.

T&R Productions, the production company that handles the operations for RT America, sent a memo to staff on Thursday informing them that it was “ceasing production” at all of its locations.

The memo, sent by General Manager Misha Solodovnikov and obtained by_ CNN_, told staff the company expected the closure to be permanent, blaming d “unforeseen business interruption events”.

Rachel Sharp
Fri, March 4, 2022, 7:56 AM·2 min read






A Russia Today conference in Moscow in 2020 (Corbis)

The US version of Russia’s state-owned TV network Russia Today has closed and its staff have been laid off after several carriers cut ties following Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine.

T&R Productions, the production company that handles the operations for RT America, sent a memo to staff on Thursday informing them that it was “ceasing production” at all of its locations.

The memo, sent by General Manager Misha Solodovnikov and obtained by_ CNN_, told staff the company expected the closure to be permanent, blaming d “unforeseen business interruption events”.


“Unfortunately, we anticipate this layoff will be permanent, meaning that this will result in the permanent separation from employment of most T&R employees at all locations,” the memo read.
The collapse of the company on US soil comes after satellite carrier DirecTV announced on Tuesday that it was dropping RT America from its programming with immediate effect.

DirecTV was one of only two major TV providers in the US to carry the US version of the Kremlin-ran English-language TV network that has long been used as a mouthpiece to push Vladimir Putin’s propaganda.
“In line with our previous agreement with RT America, we are accelerating this year’s contract expiration timeline and will no longer offer their programming effective immediately,” the company said in a statement.

This marked a major blow to Mr Putin’s reach on US soil leaving DISH as the only large US provider still carrying the network.

Beyond the US version, Western countries, TV networks and tech giants have all been cutting ties with RT ever since Russia launched a full-scale invasion on Ukraine one week ago today.

Google, TikTok, Facebook, and Microsoft all limited access to the state-ran network on their platforms.
On Sunday, European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen said that the network as well as the state-owned news agency Sputnik would be blacklisted across the EU.

“Russia Today and Sputnik, as well as their subsidiaries, will no longer be able to spread their lies to justify Putin’s war and to sow division in our union,” she said.

“So we are developing tools to ban their toxic and harmful disinformation in Europe.”









US operations of RT close and staff laid off after carriers cut ties with Russian-owned TV network


T&R Productions sent memo to staff on Thursday informing them that it was ‘ceasing production’ of RT America




www.yahoo.com





And no, US did not ban RT, they close their office themselves, due to untenable financial situation (They have no income after the network was dropped by almost all US cable).

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## khansaheeb

SilentEagle said:


> It's getting out of control both sides behaving extremely reckless i mean they even launched rpg's there.


I would have thought the Russians would have learnt their RPG lessons from Afghanistan, but it seems they were too drunk on Vodka to learn anything in Afghanistan.

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## Meengla

The narrative about this conflict is so lopsided; and there is clear evidence that, just like in case of the Covid pandemic, dissent is being muzzled. I recall the words of CNN's Christian Amanpour, who covered the Iraq war of 2003: "We [media] allowed ourselves to be muzzled". And we know the disastrous consequences of that war for all--for all except some connected corporations. The war was the beginning of decline of America or at least its prestige in the world. 

The same kind of muzzling is going on but there are a few very prominent bloggers who are speaking up and presenting an alternate viewpoint. And there is always an alternate viewpoint! Notables are these. Then there is of course Tucker Carson who, presumably a Republican oriented person, is not shy to criticize Republicans. While on the Left I see dead-quiet from the likes of even Bernie Sanders to present some perspective. 

General G. D. Bakshi [My favorite Indian!]: 






Kim Iverson:






Russel Brand:

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## Khanate

*Not coming slow...*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499414625980407818



Paul2 said:


> Yugoslavia 2.0

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## SuperStar20

gambit said:


> But Russia made a *WRITTEN* promise not to attack Ukraine if Ukraine give up 1700 nuclear warheads.
> 
> 
> Zelensky maybe a comedian, but Poutine is the joke.



Zelensky is an Idiot. Ukraine can't win war against Russia, if he does not know this basic thing. Definitely he is clown.
At least, he should have calmed down situation after war started. What is Zelensky objective ?

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## kingQamaR

CrazyZ said:


> All Zelensky had to do to aviod this was say Ukraine would not join NATO.



Ukrainian is a sovereign state there right to choose not Putins 

Remember, nato did not bully or invade anyone to join nato 

Russians past and its illegal war is a good reason Finland and Sweden are joining if reports are to be believed

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## zartosht

RescueRanger said:


> Regarding my previous posts about respecting POWs, after recent outcry on twitter of popular Ukranians taking selfies with injured POWs, *finally the Ukrainians are getting the message that this is NOT a good look:*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499330636355670021
> 
> Yes, InshaAllah


 
The Ukrainians have been humiliating every Russian they have captured one way or another. a captured POW only has to give you his name and rank. 

Imagine being dumb enough to picture yourself taking a selfie with a captured Russian prisoner... When your side is losing, and the Russians have a very strong intelligence network, and have repeatedly warned they will punish and make examples out of nazis.

Some of these dudes have a polonium chai with their names written all over it.

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## EAGLE777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499560797550391313


----------



## kingQamaR

beast89 said:


> elect a comedian get clown results



you wouldn’t know what democracy is if it hit you on your head 

Just keep building iPhones in your locked chained up factory

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## CrazyZ

gambit said:


> But Russia made a *WRITTEN* promise not to attack Ukraine if Ukraine give up 1700 nuclear warheads.





kingQamaR said:


> Ukrainian is a sovereign state there right to choose not Putins


Valid points but when you corner a bear it may charge at you.

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## Madni Bappa

jhungary said:


> Ex-Russian "Own", not a Russian Sport Car.
> 
> It would be an Audi or Ferrari or Beemer or something like that, it would have been the same no matter who owns it,


Yea I know. It already would have been abused by the guy.


----------



## jhungary

SuperStar20 said:


> Zelensky is an Idiot. Ukraine can't win war against Russia, if he does not know this basic thing. Definitely he is clown.
> At least, he should have calmed down situation after war started. What is Zelensky objective ?


So are you supposed for him to "laid down" an get rolled over if you cannot possibly resist a larger nation?

Then should this world instead of having 197 nations it should have 2? China and US? (Or 1, if you think US is a hegemon). I mean if US invade India for whatever reason, would you just lay down because there are no way India will win a war with US? Both Conventional and Nuclear.

I would not say a persons who fight for their right of existence should be called a "Clown". In fact, he IS the president, he can just leave and have his subordinate take care of the things on the ground, UK and US both offer to evacuate him, he refused both, and he is IN THIS THICK and fighting alongside with his own people. Name me how many "President or Prime Minister" would do that? Would your Modi-Ji do that? Would Xi Do that? Certainly Putin is not doing that.

*You may not like him or disagreed with his policy, but you got to respect he see his people as equal and he is staying even when things are tough. A man like that is someone you should fear. *

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## EAGLE777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499567469710966788


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## jhungary

Madni Bappa said:


> Yea I know. It already would have been abused by the guy.



Well, if I can get a Countach for 97k, I think that's still worth it if that car was abused by the Russian. Will probably go study a diploma in Mechanic or something myself.


----------



## jhungary

SilentEagle said:


> Hot milf detected target at 12 oclock


You think she's hot?


----------



## Madni Bappa

Realtalk108 said:


> Ya insurgency is inevitable. Will be heavily supplied by NATO as well.
> 
> The sanctions are comprehensive. They more or less sealed Russia off. China is the only major economy left that Russia can bank on.


The economic fallout will also hit US and EU. In fact it already is starting to. Gas price have shot up almost immediately. There are so many raw materials that come from Russia for industry in US and EU. The adverse will start to be felt in about a week.


----------



## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


> So are you supposed for him to "laid down" an get rolled over if you cannot possibly resist a larger nation?
> 
> Then should this world instead of having 197 nations it should have 2? China and US? (Or 1, if you think US is a hegemon). I mean if US invade India for whatever reason, would you just lay down because there are no way India will win a war with US? Both Conventional and Nuclear.
> 
> I would not say a persons who fight for their right of existence should be called a "Clown". In fact, he IS the president, he can just leave and have his subordinate take care of the things on the ground, UK and US both offer to evacuate him, he refused both, and he is IN THIS THICK and fighting alongside with his own people. Name me how many "President or Prime Minister" would do that? Would your Modi-Ji do that? Would Xi Do that? Certainly Putin is not doing that.


I wish I could double like this post.!



SilentEagle said:


> Hot milf detected target at 12 oclock


….


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499418220142514177

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## 8888888888888

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499563412812091400
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499562515340177416


I think that is the point take out the electricity.

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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> I wish I could double like this post.!
> 
> 
> ….
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499418220142514177


lol, I just say what I think..

I infact don't like Zelenskyy myself, a lot of people in Ukraine did not like him, but the very fact that he is staying when he could have just leave show you what kind of man he is, I don't like him as a politician, but if I am Ukrainian, I would gladly fight for him, because he fight for you, like literally. That I think anyone should respect that.

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## gambit

Paul2 said:


> Ahem... Is an NPP going boom worse than a nuke going off near it?


Am willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that on this forum, I am the only person who had personal experience with anything nuclear.

When I was active duty on the F-111 and stationed at RAF Upper Heyford, we had something called 'Victor Alert' jets. That is where a few F-111s loaded with the 'cannot-confirm-nor-deny-the-existence-of' weapons. Each jet had two external tanks and two B61s freefall nucs. Each VA crew have a navigation cartridge loaded with coordinates known only at the time of engine start. Each VA aircrew must be in utility uniform at all time, cannot leave the base, and must be within 15 minutes of the flightline. Each VA HAS is a 'no lone zone' where each person must be in full physical view of someone else at all time, and lethal force is authorized to enforce that rule.

The first time I pulled VA duty was the first time I saw a live nuke. I never thought ever in my life would I touch a nuclear bomb but here am looking at two of them. We had to test the jet for readiness so I had to load the nav cartridge to make sure the INS works. Am not going to say the coords but I will say for that jet, it was assigned to fly very far eastward if we ever had to launch for real. Under agreement with the UK, American VA jets are not allowed to leave the HAS fully loaded. We can run up the engines but that was as far as we can do. The fuel load was for 1.5 journey, meaning once the crew delivered the bombs, the jet have enough fuel for 1/2 of the trip home, so if there was no tanker waiting, it would be ejection possibly over enemy territory or even radioactive lands. Every VA aircrew know and resigned to the fact that the launch is probably their last.

In a way, I understand the cavalier attitude people on this forum have about nuclear power in general and weapons in particular. Most are borne after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Anything nuclear are abstract and from entertainment. Easy to say 'nuke this and nuke that'. There is practically no one left from the time of Hiroshima and Nagasaki to remind the world of nuclear horror. So we are left with survivors from Chernobyl and Fukushima.

You, and I say 'you' generically, cannot blame this on the US and NATO. No matter how you might strain the rules of logic, this falls on Vladimir Putin. No one will swallow the NATO is at fault argument. Putin did this on purpose. If he cannot have Ukraine, then you cannot have your country, wherever that might be, because your home soil will be contaminated.

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## jhungary

SilentEagle said:


> I am a Turk if it breaths its hot


even babushka??


----------



## Madni Bappa

If Russia falls or West tries a coup to oust Putin _again._

There will be a lot of destabilization in E.Europe and Central Asia and maybe trickling down to South Asia.

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## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


> lol, I just say what I think..
> 
> I infact don't like Zelenskyy myself, a lot of people in Ukraine did not like him, but the very fact that he is staying when he could have just leave show you what kind of man he is, I don't like him as a politician, but if I am Ukrainian, I would gladly fight for him, because he fight for you, like literally. That I think anyone should respect that.


Couldn’t agree more, the main this is that he’s given his people someone to rally around and that is commendable.

Also his last appeal to Putin in TV felt sincere.

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## kingQamaR

Madni Bappa said:


> The economic fallout will also hit US and EU. In fact it already is starting to. Gas price have shot up almost immediately. There are so many raw materials that come from Russia for industry in US and EU. The adverse will start to be felt in about a week.



In the short term you are correct we consumers in the west are going to take a hit of Putin madness 

During this period we all know west will just simply find others to step in 

And Russians are going to see there living standards and e-commerce total collapses. 

Russians sport media music arts travel bans to Eu and west are now being boycotted , I reckon Moscow did not think sanctions included all

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## sur

SilentEagle said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499560797550391313



More like flaring rather than shelling.

*These are just flares*.

Another flop propaganda.

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## Khanate

*SALE, SALE, SALE 😎*

_Pakistan better stock up_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499446553848823815


Meengla said:


> The narrative about this conflict is so lopsided; and there is clear evidence that, just like in case of the Covid pandemic, dissent is being muzzled. I recall the words of CNN's Christian Amanpour, who covered the Iraq war of 2003: "We [media] allowed ourselves to be muzzled". And we know the disastrous consequences of that war for all--for all except some connected corporations. The war was the beginning of decline of America or at least its prestige in the world.
> 
> The same kind of muzzling is going on but there are a few very prominent bloggers who are speaking up and presenting an alternate viewpoint. And there is always an alternate viewpoint! Notables are these. Then there is of course Tucker Carson who, presumably a Republican oriented person, is not shy to criticize Republicans. While on the Left I see dead-quiet from the likes of even Bernie Sanders to present some perspective.
> 
> General G. D. Bakshi [My favorite Indian!]:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kim Iverson:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russel Brand:




Kim Iverson is repeating Michael Brenner's article word to word. 😆

The Consequences of Humiliating Russia​








The Consequences of Humiliating Russia


Russia’s actions in Ukraine are to a great extent the culmination of the numerous humiliations that the West has inflicted on Russia over the past 30 years, writes Michael Brenner. By Michael Brenner The Mafia is not known for its creative use of language beyond terms like "hitman," "go




web.archive.org





"If you are going to humiliate someone publicly in a really crass manner, make sure that he doesn’t survive to take his inevitable revenge.”

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Ahem... Is an NPP going boom worse than a nuke going off near it?



In my limited CDF training, Nuclear Missile or bomb go boom in the air, it can be 20 ft in the air, it could be 10,000 ft in the air. If Nuclear Power Plant go boom it will be a ground det.

The different is the initial phase of the boom, if you are within the blast zone of an airburst, you will be vaporised by the shock wave and the explosive chain reaction, in ground burst, item such as concrete will block some initial energy and the blast wave, and you are basically cook alive from the inside if you are in the initial containment area. Remember what happened to Chernobyl?

Depends on what do you mean by worse, ground det will not destroy much, but it will have a more horrific death for people inside, Air Burst will destroy most of the area, but your death is most likely painless, hadn't tried that before so I can't tell you........

(edit: corrected a few autocorrect mistake, I need to change my OS....)



SilentEagle said:


> 🤢🤢🤮🤮
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499574209567199235


Take it as a no then.........

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## Madni Bappa

sur said:


> Here you go.
> 
> They are expecting [read planning] to turn it into an *insurgency* @9:53+ again @10:10+ they expect [plan] that *this will continue for a very long time, years*. @15:17+ *we're gonna help them fight* [a protracted insurgency]. [Instead of helping towards a ceasefire, will help them fight].
> 
> 
> These instigators talk high of Ukrainian people, how children are suffering in NICUs, but *how do they plan to help mitigate those sufferings? By sending more Javelins and weapons* *and **insurgents**, instead of* hastily bringing a ceasefire solution!. In addition they will help the suffering Ukrainians by banning Russian oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil . . . goes on for half an hour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That may be the plan of instigators but *if Russians are successful at encircling the country, then insurgency won't get fuel and will wither soon*.
> Probably *that's why instigators are in a rush to supply as much weapons* as quickly as possible, instead of rushing to achieve some sort of ceasefire.
> "Hurry before our routes are blocked".
> 
> Why I'm feeling deja-vu I wonder? Hmm, oh yes, the 1000+ NATO containers unaccounted for in Pakistan.
> 
> Anyways, if they were sincere about Ukrainian civilians, as they _poorly_ pretend, then they would be heard talking about going to the table. Not the case here.
> 
> 
> 
> *@4:23*+
> Russians are _trying [not quite successful though] _to *not hit even the barracks of Ukrainian soldiers*. Only the infrastructure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think that's a cheap shot.
> *I see that much crowd in IKEA on a normal day*.
> 
> Westerners are seen twice a years, fighting on boxing day/black friday sales over a TV? I thought they were "_more civilized than Iraqis and Syrians/Libyans_"!!.
> At least Russians were very disciplined.
> 
> 
> (click to watch age-restricted video directly on YouTube instead of embedded here)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My thoughts on Zaporizhzhya Nuclear Power Plant footages:
> 
> If Russians were to take control of plant, they won't attack the plant itself.
> If those CCTV show fires/explosions on the plant itself then it could possibly be the retreating ones sabotaging the plant.
> 
> Russian FM _Lavrov_ alluded to such acts by retreating Ukrainian army @2:10+ in his video above.
> 
> *And we have precedence of decommissioned Chernobyl nuclear plant under joint protection with Ukrainian forces*. Why would Russians do it differently with a working one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Magnitude-wise, those fires and small duds seen on CCTV footage from reactor don't seem to coincide with what Russians have been firing so far on Ukraine.
> Unless I missed any big ones!
> 
> I at first thought that was just arcing, as there must be electric grid. Or flares.
> 
> They did attack a dam though earlier. But they said it was to release the water of Crimea that was blocked. And it was more like a beaver dam with no catastrophic results. Just slowly flowing water.
> 
> 
> 
> "*Would you mind not shooting at the . . . *"


Does US deep state want revenge for Afghanistan? What will happen if Russia is "neutralized" by the West?

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## RescueRanger

The only knowledge I have of nuclear fission is old Haji’s bun kebabs he was my go to street food guy back in the day. those things have enough spice to blast you to the moon and back. 😂

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## zartosht

Really bad news for all these wannabe western soldiers:



> "I wish to make an official statement that none of the *mercenaries* the West is sending to Ukraine to fight for the nationalist regime in Kyiv can be considered as combatants in accordance with international humanitarian law or enjoy the status of prisoners of war," Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said Thursday, Russia's Tass news agency reported.
> 
> Konashenkov continued, saying that "at best, they can expect to be prosecuted as criminals." He warned foreign nationals "to think a dozen times before" before traveling to fight alongside Ukrainians.



at best lengthy jail term

with a High chance of getting executed on the field 

These clowns have 0 protection under international law.

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## 8888888888888

RescueRanger said:


> Couldn’t agree more, the main this is that he’s given his people someone to rally around and that is commendable.
> 
> Also his last appeal to Putin in TV felt sincere.


He is an actor like Trump.

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## RescueRanger

sur said:


> More like flaring rather than shelling.
> 
> *These are just flares*.
> 
> Another flop propaganda.
> 
> View attachment 820632
> 
> 
> View attachment 820631


Why did you have to go and spoil the fun ?

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## jhungary

DoD confirmed Stinger is on the ground in Ukraine.

This will probably turn into another Afghanistan for Russian...

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## sur

RescueRanger said:


> Why did you have to go and spoil the fun ?



I told Russians twice, they wouldn't disobey me a third time:

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## khansaheeb

SuperStar20 said:


> Zelensky is an Idiot. Ukraine can't win war against Russia, if he does not know this basic thing. Definitely he is clown.
> At least, he should have calmed down situation after war started. What is Zelensky objective ?


He is just a pawn being used to play a game on false promises of money and glory. Zelensky is the Ukrainian version of Syrian Assad, will destroy the whole nation just to cling to power.



jhungary said:


> DoD confirmed Stinger is on the ground of Ukraine.
> 
> This will probably turn into another Afghanistan for Russian...


It was already there before the invasion.


----------



## RescueRanger

sur said:


> I told Russians twice, they wouldn't disobey me a third time:


Back when travolta could still act 😂. Good movie.



Madni Bappa said:


> Jews trying real hard for WW3 man sheeeet


You don’t like Jews huh?

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## jhungary

sur said:


> I told Russians twice, they wouldn't disobey me a third time:







This is a much better clip in my opinion.
Hunt for Red October is twice the Movie than Broken Arrow...

007 vs Grease? (Sean Connelly vs John Travolta) No contest...

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## Madni Bappa

sur said:


> More like flaring rather than shelling.
> 
> *These are just flares*.
> 
> Another flop propaganda.
> 
> View attachment 820632
> 
> 
> View attachment 820631


They(Ukrainians) are really really pushing for a NATO no fly zone. Or some sort of NATO intervention.

I can't shake the feeling that all of this also has Jewish involvement. And I say this not just because of Zelensky.

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## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


> This is a much better clip in my opinion.
> Hunt for Red October is twice the Movie than Broken Arrow...


I’m waiting for Netflix to announce it’s been cancelled 😂

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## SuperStar20

jhungary said:


> So are you supposed for him to "laid down" an get rolled over if you cannot possibly resist a larger nation?
> 
> Then should this world instead of having 197 nations it should have 2? China and US? (Or 1, if you think US is a hegemon). I mean if US invade India for whatever reason, would you just lay down because there are no way India will win a war with US? Both Conventional and Nuclear.
> 
> I would not say a persons who fight for their right of existence should be called a "Clown". In fact, he IS the president, he can just leave and have his subordinate take care of the things on the ground, UK and US both offer to evacuate him, he refused both, and he is IN THIS THICK and fighting alongside with his own people. Name me how many "President or Prime Minister" would do that? Would your Modi-Ji do that? Would Xi Do that? Certainly Putin is not doing that.
> 
> *You may not like him or disagreed with his policy, but you got to respect he see his people as equal and he is staying even when things are tough. A man like that is someone you should fear. *



You are missing the point here. Falling for USA, Europe propaganda. What is the reason for Russian attack? Zelensky knows it. Can't he negotiate with Russia. At least he can be neutral.

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## EAGLE777

sur said:


> More like flaring rather than shelling.
> 
> *These are just flares*.
> 
> Another flop propaganda.
> 
> View attachment 820632
> 
> 
> View attachment 820631


everything is fake right earth is flat, moon landing was a lie. 2Pac is alive.


----------



## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> He is just a pawn being used to play a game on false promises of money and glory. Zelensky is the Ukrainian version of Syrian Assad, will destroy the whole nation just to cling to power.
> 
> 
> It was already there before the invasion.


I mean the new weapon pack that was sent 3 days ago. The one that US said it is estimated 1 billions worth arm aide.

I think they have a few launcher before, now the entire country will be flooded with them. (report said it's "hundred" of launcher) 

My friend at the Pentagon also pretty much confirmed that round of US aid had included some old Predator Drone.

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## Madni Bappa

RescueRanger said:


> Back when travolta could still act 😂. Good movie.
> 
> 
> You don’t like Jews huh?


Jews are closest to muslims in belief and practice. But they have chosen to be against God. Quran speaks extensively about them. To treat them very good but to be cautious of them. 


These days they have gotten another urooj. And have become tyrants on Earth. 


According to their belief a huge war will bring their messiah. And they've recruited Christian Zionists to this belief as well.

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## jhungary

SuperStar20 said:


> You are missing the point here. Falling for USA, Europe propaganda. What is the reason for Russian attack? Zelensky knows it. Can't he negotiate with Russia. At least he can be neutral.



Like Zelenskyy said, you can agree with difference and discuss the question, but if you already have a preset answer to the question (He is talking about Russia) then what is the point of talking? Putin want Ukraine to be part of Russia, that is something already in his mind. There are no changing that, so for Zelenskyy, it's either subjugated or fight back. He chose the later one. 

Also, what make you think even if Ukraine get "temporary" peace and Russia will do nothing? They have already done it once, in 2014, even if Zelenskyy agreed to Putin Demand and Putin said he will let him keep part of the country, even if that is acceptable for him (Which clearly not, but let's assume) what guarantee does Zelenskyy that is going to stop and that and Russia will not invade in another 4 or 8 years?

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## tower9

Titanium100 said:


> THIS IS GOLD


What in the Gopnik shithole did I just watch?


----------



## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> I’m waiting for Netflix to announce it’s been cancelled 😂


Well, you seems to only get "cancelled" if you molest a woman (or in Kevin Spacey case a man), or going full racist on a black man, killing a white woman on a movie set is a nickel and dime thing in America apparently

That said I still feel sad then Brandon Lee was killed by Michael Massee by accident.

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## K_Bin_W

jhungary said:


> This is a much better clip in my opinion.
> Hunt for Red October is twice the Movie than Broken Arrow...



This move brings back good old memories! I use to work with a submariner who was an electronics technician on a US nuclear power submarine. I had seen "The Hunt of Red October" recently and brought up the term "Crazy Ivan" and a TV documentary "Sharks of Steel" and how US subs use to follow Soviet subs without them knowing, Thats when he disclosed something most people don't know. These are his words verbatim "Don't believe a single word of it" Reasons Soviets use to do the same to us without us knowing but its never reported in any western media.

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## Lehrasap

SuperStar20 said:


> You are missing the point here. Falling for USA, Europe propaganda. What is the reason for Russian attack? Zelensky knows it. Can't he negotiate with Russia. At least he can be neutral.


You are falling for Putin's propaganda.
The reality is that it is Putin who closed any doors of negotiations after capturing Crimea.
It is due to Crimea that Ukraine is trying to become a part of NATO, in order to defend itself against the out-of-control Putin.

Putin should have made the offer to release Crimea back to Ukraine if it agrees not to join NATO.
But instead of offering Crimea as a negotiation chip, Putin wants to usurp more parts of Ukraine.

Therefore, it is Putin's mistake for not putting Crimea on the table for negotiations in order to achieve peace.

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## kingQamaR

zartosht said:


> Really bad news for all these wannabe western soldiers:
> 
> 
> 
> at best lengthy jail term
> 
> with a High chance of getting executed on the field
> 
> These clowns have 0 protection under international law.



I thought I would add this also to strengthen your argument against foreign paid mercenaries 

Starting in 2013, large numbers of Pakistani Shia from the Turi tribe of the Kurram tribal region and ethnic Hazaras from Quetta 

Pakistani Shia foreign fighters are believed to have been fighting in their own distinct unit in Syria, The group’s fighters are allegedly trained by Iran’s Quds Force, the military unit responsible for projecting Iran’s influence via proxies across the Middle East.

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## jhungary

K_Bin_W said:


> This move brings back good old memories! I use to work with a submariner who was an electronics technician on a US nuclear power submarine. I had seen "The Hunt of Red October" recently and brought up the term "Crazy Ivan" and a TV documentary "Sharks of Steel" and how US subs use to follow Soviet subs without them knowing, Thats when he disclosed something most people don't know. These are his words verbatim "Don't believe a single word of it" Reasons Soviets use to do the same to us without us knowing but its never reported in any western media.



Yeah, The Hunt For Red October is probably THE GOAT Naval Movie (Not the GOAT Submarine movie, that's Dasboot)

And yes, in my field of work, which is military intelligence, we have an old saying.

"You are doing a good job if nobody know you have done anything. "

Something are meant to be done at the downlow, and the less people know about it the better.

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## Patriot forever

RescueRanger said:


> So are we all in agreement Russia just committed a war crime live on candid camera:
> 
> Article 56 — Protection of works and installations containing dangerous forces:
> 
> 
> https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/assets/files/other/icrc_002_0321.pdf



Can you elaborate what is the actual law?? 

Events are captured live on camera. 

Ukraine forces fled to power station when Russian entered the city, opened fire from the plant. RPG's and Javelins.


----------



## Song Hong

It took EU just 4 days to spread her legs to Ukrainian refugees while doors are still closed to Muslim refugees,









EU agrees to trigger never-before-used law to host Ukrainian refugees


More than one million Ukrainians have fled the country since the invasion began one week ago, with the vast majority arriving at neighbouring EU countries. #EuropeNews




www.euronews.com

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## Madni Bappa

sur said:


> West is just after making some unsuspecting gains. Nothing will happen to Russia.
> 
> By the way, did they force you to change your dp (avatar)?
> What did they say was wrong with that previous dp?


They said its sectarian supposedly. One guy was really pissed at it. I don't even know what sect madni bappa is from. Usually madni bappa is usually speaking for ishq e rasool and ends up in memes


That's just my uninformed understanding. I don't exactly know what sect or school he follows.

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## jhungary

Panic buying in Russian Ikea stores as Swedish retailer announces closure​
Vic commits to offshore wind power targets





Russian customers have flocked to Ikea stores to panic buy furniture and homewares before the retail chain shuts up shop.

The Swedish giant announced yesterday that it would be closing all stores in Russia and Belarus in protest of the invasion of Ukraine.

Massive queues formed outside of their store in St Petersburg before it opened for the last time yesterday.

*LIVE UPDATES:* *Russian forces close in on key cities*




© AP A woman in St Petersburg stocks up on coffee cups at Ikea.
Shoppers were seen loading up their trolleys with trays of coffee cups and boxes of flat-pack furniture.

An Ikea statement spoke of the war in Ukraine as they announced their "pause" on retail.

*READ MORE:* *France warns 'worst yet to come' in Ukraine conflict*




© AP Massive queues outside an Ikea in Russia before it opens for the last time.
"The devastating war in Ukraine is a human tragedy, and our deepest empathy and concerns are with the millions of people impacted," the statement read.

"The immediate actions of Inter Ikea Group and Ingka Group have been to support the personal safety and security of Ikea co-workers and their families, and we will continue to do so."


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499387026440925186Ikea also announced it would pause all Ikea Industry production in Russia.

Overnight Volkswagen also announced it would halt all activities in Russia until further notice.

Volkswagen has two major factories in Russia which will be shut down.

Volkswagen will also stop importing cars into Russia.

*READ MORE:* *Russians besiege Ukrainian ports as armoured column stalls*




© AP Queues for the checkout at an Ikea in St Petersburg ahead of the store shutting down.
Mercedes-Benz, Volvo, and Harley Davidson have also stopped imports into Russia, while Renault is shutting down its Moscow plant.

Apple and Dell have also suspended sales in Russia.

Russian currency continues to drop, with each ruble now worth barely one Australian cent.





__





Panic buying in Russian Ikea stores as Swedish retailer announces closure






www.msn.com





In time of crisis, some panic buy toilet paper (yeah, we've all been there) some panic buy food and medicine. The Russian is taking it into the next level - Flat Pack Furniture....Forget about asking NATO to get off their border, they probably should ask IKEA to stay in their border...


----------



## Thinker3

jhungary said:


> I mean the new weapon pack that was sent 3 days ago. The one that US said it is estimated 1 billions worth arm aide.
> 
> I think they have a few launcher before, now the entire country will be flooded with them. (report said it's "hundred" of launcher)
> 
> My friend at the Pentagon also pretty much confirmed that round of US aid had included some old Predator Drone.


Russians will also do the same now, all enemies of US and NATO will be armed to teeth with latest Russian weapons.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499595600333000708

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## khansaheeb

Ukrainian MPs singing national anthem of Ukraine 🇺🇦

Despite Russian bombs attacking Kyiv, they had a session in the parliament today to vote for the essential laws.

#StandWithUkraine


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499420270108553222

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## FuturePAF

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> Germany arming itself means a arms race will begin in Europe. Russia will likely respond with more tactical nukes and hypersonic vehicles.
> 
> If there is no united european defence force it means the continent will be back to great power rivalry like in the old days. Which of course is beneficial to USA in many ways.


Europe seems more unified to maintain normalcy; the current standard of living. No one really motivated to do much beyond that, as getting back to improving economic opportunities is a high priority, post COVID, once robust defense capabilities are rebuilt.

Europe is stepping up because, as the US shifts to confronting China, the US is stepping back from Europe. Russia is breaking down. We could say this war is “The Second collapse of the Soviet Union”, an “Echo Collapse” one generation post the fall of the wall, where Russia can’t even easily and fully subdue a former Soviet Republic.

The EU, not NATO, will probably be the basis for the “European military” (which is why Ukraine wants to join the EU) with a stronger conventional Germany and stronger Nuclear France (which IMHO, think will increase their nuclear arsenal to approx. 500 warheads, possibly tactical systems) to confront a declining Russia being constrained and a China filling the gap, with the Brits right behind them at nearly the same number of warheads (on larger SSBNs and carried by F-35s) to allow Europe to cross some kind of Psychological Barrier of a “1000 European Warheads to Protect Europe”.

I expect to see Non-defense spending shrink for some time, delaying the recover from COVID till the latter half of the decade if not post 2030.

Large European defense spending in the 2020s (similar to the Reagan Buildup of the 1980s) could lead to a greater chance a dispute could escalate into a new war in the 2030s, akin to the Gulf war of 1991; a hammer in search of a nail. Hopefully history doesn’t repeat.


----------



## jhungary

Unconfirm report on the fight of Hostomel

Russian VDV General killed by Ukrainian Special Force sniper in the fight.








Thinker3 said:


> Russians will also do the same now, all enemies of US and NATO will be armed to teeth with latest Russian weapons.



well, I don't think the American will mind. In fact, Cuba is still looking for Russian to pay up the money they lost during the Missile Crisis Sanction and blockade, maybe they need to do that first.....By the way, Cuban don't want weapon, they want money...


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499582612058296329

Reactions: Haha Haha:
5 | Wow Wow:
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## Beast

jhungary said:


> Panic buying in Russian Ikea stores as Swedish retailer announces closure​
> Vic commits to offshore wind power targets
> View attachment 820634
> 
> Russian customers have flocked to Ikea stores to panic buy furniture and homewares before the retail chain shuts up shop.
> 
> The Swedish giant announced yesterday that it would be closing all stores in Russia and Belarus in protest of the invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> Massive queues formed outside of their store in St Petersburg before it opened for the last time yesterday.
> 
> *LIVE UPDATES:* *Russian forces close in on key cities*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> © AP A woman in St Petersburg stocks up on coffee cups at Ikea.
> Shoppers were seen loading up their trolleys with trays of coffee cups and boxes of flat-pack furniture.
> 
> An Ikea statement spoke of the war in Ukraine as they announced their "pause" on retail.
> 
> *READ MORE:* *France warns 'worst yet to come' in Ukraine conflict*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> © AP Massive queues outside an Ikea in Russia before it opens for the last time.
> "The devastating war in Ukraine is a human tragedy, and our deepest empathy and concerns are with the millions of people impacted," the statement read.
> 
> "The immediate actions of Inter Ikea Group and Ingka Group have been to support the personal safety and security of Ikea co-workers and their families, and we will continue to do so."
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499387026440925186Ikea also announced it would pause all Ikea Industry production in Russia.
> 
> Overnight Volkswagen also announced it would halt all activities in Russia until further notice.
> 
> Volkswagen has two major factories in Russia which will be shut down.
> 
> Volkswagen will also stop importing cars into Russia.
> 
> *READ MORE:* *Russians besiege Ukrainian ports as armoured column stalls*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> © AP Queues for the checkout at an Ikea in St Petersburg ahead of the store shutting down.
> Mercedes-Benz, Volvo, and Harley Davidson have also stopped imports into Russia, while Renault is shutting down its Moscow plant.
> 
> Apple and Dell have also suspended sales in Russia.
> 
> Russian currency continues to drop, with each ruble now worth barely one Australian cent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Panic buying in Russian Ikea stores as Swedish retailer announces closure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In time of crisis, some panic buy toilet paper (yeah, we've all been there) some panic buy food and medicine. The Russian is taking it into the next level - Flat Pack Furniture....Forget about asking NATO to get off their border, they probably should ask IKEA to stay in their border...


China brand and made in China will move in Russia Swiftly.

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## thetutle

PakAlp said:


> 03/03/2022 update. Look like they still planning to create East Ukraine along the blue line
> 
> View attachment 820538


Looks like they will take the whole country.

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## jhungary

Beast said:


> China brand and made in China will move in Russia Swiftly.


Well, if they have any money to buy by then, yeah.....Are you okay for trading oil or gas to furniture?


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499600577268965389


----------



## FuturePAF

jhungary said:


> Yeah, The Hunt For Red October is probably THE GOAT Naval Movie (Not the GOAT Submarine movie, that's Dasboot)
> 
> And yes, in my field of work, which is military intelligence, we have an old saying.
> 
> "You are doing a good job if nobody know you have done anything. "
> 
> Something are meant to be done at the downlow, and the less people know about it the better.


Happy birthday. (Just curious, are you part Hungarian?)
How do you see this conflict impacting Chinese military planning?


----------



## Patriot forever

jhungary said:


> Well, if they have any money to buy by then, yeah.....Are you okay for trading oil or gas to furniture?



What do you mean?

Basically that IKEA furniture is also financed through oil/gas. It is their largest export.

China is one of the world's leading oil consumer if not the biggest. Probably can absorb alot of Russian oil and gas.

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## satyamev

Song Hong said:


> It took EU just 4 days to spread her legs to Ukrainian refugees while doors are still closed to Muslim refugees,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU agrees to trigger never-before-used law to host Ukrainian refugees
> 
> 
> More than one million Ukrainians have fled the country since the invasion began one week ago, with the vast majority arriving at neighbouring EU countries. #EuropeNews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.euronews.com


not all European countries are the same. 
Germany legally accepted 1 m Syrian refugees. 
While uk scaremongered and paid lip service to the refugees.

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## Madni Bappa




----------



## Clutch

SuperStar20 said:


> Zelensky is an Idiot. Ukraine can't win war against Russia, if he does not know this basic thing. Definitely he is clown.
> At least, he should have calmed down situation after war started. What is Zelensky objective ?


He will act like a Clown and goat the Russians until they are at the Gates of Kiev.. then run off to the West to live in Billion $$ house in Beverly Hills....

Cha-ching....$$$$$

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## satyamev

jhungary said:


> Panic buying in Russian Ikea stores as Swedish retailer announces closure​
> Vic commits to offshore wind power targets
> View attachment 820634
> 
> Russian customers have flocked to Ikea stores to panic buy furniture and homewares before the retail chain shuts up shop.
> 
> The Swedish giant announced yesterday that it would be closing all stores in Russia and Belarus in protest of the invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> Massive queues formed outside of their store in St Petersburg before it opened for the last time yesterday.
> 
> *LIVE UPDATES:* *Russian forces close in on key cities*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> © AP A woman in St Petersburg stocks up on coffee cups at Ikea.
> Shoppers were seen loading up their trolleys with trays of coffee cups and boxes of flat-pack furniture.
> 
> An Ikea statement spoke of the war in Ukraine as they announced their "pause" on retail.
> 
> *READ MORE:* *France warns 'worst yet to come' in Ukraine conflict*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> © AP Massive queues outside an Ikea in Russia before it opens for the last time.
> "The devastating war in Ukraine is a human tragedy, and our deepest empathy and concerns are with the millions of people impacted," the statement read.
> 
> "The immediate actions of Inter Ikea Group and Ingka Group have been to support the personal safety and security of Ikea co-workers and their families, and we will continue to do so."
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499387026440925186Ikea also announced it would pause all Ikea Industry production in Russia.
> 
> Overnight Volkswagen also announced it would halt all activities in Russia until further notice.
> 
> Volkswagen has two major factories in Russia which will be shut down.
> 
> Volkswagen will also stop importing cars into Russia.
> 
> *READ MORE:* *Russians besiege Ukrainian ports as armoured column stalls*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> © AP Queues for the checkout at an Ikea in St Petersburg ahead of the store shutting down.
> Mercedes-Benz, Volvo, and Harley Davidson have also stopped imports into Russia, while Renault is shutting down its Moscow plant.
> 
> Apple and Dell have also suspended sales in Russia.
> 
> Russian currency continues to drop, with each ruble now worth barely one Australian cent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Panic buying in Russian Ikea stores as Swedish retailer announces closure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In time of crisis, some panic buy toilet paper (yeah, we've all been there) some panic buy food and medicine. The Russian is taking it into the next level - Flat Pack Furniture....Forget about asking NATO to get off their border, they probably should ask IKEA to stay in their border...


it's for resale. not personal use. 
No one needs 100s of cups suddenly. 
And ikea India is pretty expensive as compared to our local furniture supply. 
They should pack up in India too.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499603675924340736


----------



## Ich

satyamev said:


> not all European countries are the same,
> Germany legally accepted 1 m Syrian refugees.
> While uk scaremongered and paid lip service to the refugees.


It wasnt "legally"! At that time it was a decision by the gov against existing law! It was illegal! They changed the law afterwards. And it was - and is - one of the greatest faults a german gov did since WW2. It is a ugly mess and not an enrichment!

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## Microsoft

Ich said:


> It wasnt "legally"! At that time it was a decision by the gov against existing law! It was illegal! They changed the law afterwards. And it was - and is - one of the greatest faults a german gov did since WW2. It is a ugly mess and not an enrichment!



Should've done more to stop the wars that caused those people to migrate then.

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## Ich

Microsoft said:


> Should've done more to stop the wars that caused those people to migrate then.



Yes. And in first place didnt take part in this wars. But Germany isnt free, has to do what US says. Slaves. And lots of idiots who do what the gov says, e.g. supporting US-wars and any other US-shit.

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## Bengal71

K_Bin_W said:


> This move brings back good old memories! I use to work with a submariner who was an electronics technician on a US nuclear power submarine. I had seen "The Hunt of Red October" recently and brought up the term "Crazy Ivan" and a TV documentary "Sharks of Steel" and how US subs use to follow Soviet subs without them knowing, Thats when he disclosed something most people don't know. These are his words verbatim "Don't believe a single word of it" Reasons Soviets use to do the same to us without us knowing but its never reported in any western media.



Or maybe the Soviets knew but always pretended they didn't know.


----------



## jamahir

RescueRanger said:


> I’ve been sent some very disturbing footage of alleged UAF forces looting the corpses of Russian soldiers.
> 
> The true reality of war.



Ah. But this will not be propagated by crying faces in the UNSC and the media agencies affiliated with NATO. Their tears are reserved only for Zelensky's Nazis.



jhungary said:


> Yeah, The Hunt For Red October is probably THE GOAT Naval Movie



I have watched the film. It was an attempt at filming a pathetic book that sought to create nationalism-based anti-Communist uprising in the Baltics and subvert the USSR. The book was NATO regime-change-attempt propaganda.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499582612058296329



Not surprising that UNO branches are in full support of Zelensky's Nazis. But what authority do the UNO branches have to impose sanctions or speak of war crimes by non-Western-bloc countries when the same UNO branches have never spoken of war crimes, regime-change attempts, illegal invasions and illegal sanctions imposed by Western bloc countries ? In fact from Iraq to Libya and Syria the UNO bodies have acted as rubber stamp of criminal group called NATO.

And speaking of war crimes, the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission instituted by Mahathir Mohamad in 2007 found George Bush jr and Tony B'liar guilty of war crimes in Iraq and called for their arrest which unfortunately has not been done now in 2022. I will say that Iraqis should arrest those two criminals from where ever they find them. But predictable has been the responsible of the NATO rubber stamp UNO to this Malaysian war crimes court :


> The former United Nations Special Rapporteur on the Independence of Judges and Lawyers, Param Cumaraswamy, called the KLWCT a private enterprise with no legal basis, and questioned its legitimacy.[15] It does not possess a mandate from the United Nations, nor does the UN grant it recognition. It has no power to order arrests or impose sentences, and it is unclear if its verdicts are anything other than symbolic.


----------



## Leishangthem

BTW what makes anyone think China will start by ground invasion? That's such asinine logic.
The rocket force,plan and plaf will take out almost everything that can threaten or stage a struggle against the impending invasion by foot soldiers.

If 200k Taiwanese troops concentrated to defend the sea line as someone said ,it will be even easier task for plaf and PLAN to take out everything before arrival of PLA.

I also doubt that even the hundreds of thousands Taiwanese can take out 50k PLA soldiers because,the forces of taiwan would have lots of civilians turned militia,the 50 k Chinese will the absolute elite special forces. Though Taiwanese would be no Afghan farmers,they have the weapons procured from the west but the class of the PLA will likely be different.

Rather than the use of force,China apparently thinks it can take Taiwan just like HK. It's like a contest between CPC vs Tsai regime from Taiwan institute of US. In this context,what China wishes to do is heighten economic,cultural and human to human connection with the island,meanhwile the Taiwan institute's pet project Tsai is opposed to that ,because that will run counter to US's agenda of operating a hostile Taiwanese gov toward China .
Let's make this clear,it's not about democracy, US preserved the dictator Chiang kai sek regime throughout his life,China is more than willing to allow any form of gov in Taiwan,US and their puppet regime want Taiwan and China separate to limit Chinese power projection in China's own backyard.

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## Song Hong

Leishangthem said:


> BTW what makes anyone think China will start by ground invasion? That's such asinine logic.
> The rocket force,plan and plaf will take out almost everything that can threaten or stage a struggle against the impending invasion by foot soldiers.
> 
> If 200k Taiwanese troops concentrated to defend the sea line as someone said ,it will be even easier task for plaf and PLAN to take out everything before arrival of PLA.
> 
> I also doubt that even the 200k Taiwanese can take out 50k chinese soldiers because,the 200k forces of taiwan would have lots of civilians turned militia,the 50 k Chinese will the absolute elite special forces. Though Taiwanese would be no Afghan farmers,they have the weapons procured from the west but the class of the PLA will likely be different.
> 
> Rather than the use of force ,China apparently thinks it can take Taiwan just like HK. It's like a contest between CPC vs Tsai regime from Taiwan institute of US. In this context,what China wishes to do is heighten economic,cultural and human to human connection with the island.meanhwile the Taiwan institute's pet project Tsai is opposed to that ,because that will run counter to US's agenda of operating a hostile Taiwanese gov toward China .
> Let's make this clear,it's not about democracy, China is more than willing to allow any form of gov in Taiwan,US and their puppet regime want Taiwan and China separate to limit Chinese power projection in China's own backyard.


Historically the war is settled at Northern China. The South of China never contest the outcome of Northern China war. Southern Chinese just accept any victors who won the Northern China,


----------



## Beast

jhungary said:


> Well, if they have any money to buy by then, yeah.....Are you okay for trading oil or gas to furniture?


Why not? As if u don't need oil or gas...

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## sammuel

~​​​Putin cracks down on anti-war protests in Russia with ‘more than 6,500 arrests’​Demonstrations said to have been held in scores of Russian cities as Ukraine backlash grows​​​







Putin cracks down on anti-war protests in Russia with ‘more than 6,500 arrests’


Demonstrations said to have been held in scores of Russian cities as Ukraine backlash grows




www.independent.co.uk



​Two independent Russian media outlets forced off air amid Ukraine war​​








Russia cracks down on independent media during Ukraine invasion


Russia is not only attacking Ukraine. Independent media say they are in Moscow's crosshairs, too.




www.euronews.com


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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499610693594669058

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## Ich

In german news papers and media they say that Russia shot with tanks at a nuclear power plant. Its a lie as we all know, meanwhile. But this is how the hating propaganda works in Germany. And lots of germans believe what the german newspaper or media say. 
80 years of brainwashing bring results.

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## sammuel

Ich said:


> In german news papers and media they say that Russia shot with tanks at a nuclear power plant. Its a lie as we all know, meanwhile. But this is how the hating propaganda works in Germany. And lots of germans believe what the german newspaper or media say.
> 80 years of brainwashing bring results.



really ? :

Like the Russians enjoy better freedom of the press . . . 


( btw , this plant generates 25% of Ukraine's electricity. )

















~


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## jhungary

Beast said:


> Why not? As if u don't need oil or gas...



lol, how much would that be for a, say "table" then? 1 litre of oil? 2 litres? 

And you do know Oil and Gas cannot be use right away, right? You will have to refine it. How are your furniture company refine it? Oh I know, buy a refinery.......Then come back to the very first question. How much you are going to charge the Russian for a table??



jamahir said:


> Ah. But this will not be propagated by crying faces in the UNSC and the media agencies affiliated with NATO. Their tears are reserved only for Zelensky's Nazis.
> 
> 
> 
> I have watched the film. It was an attempt at filming a pathetic book that sought to create nationalism-based anti-Communist uprising in the Baltics and subvert the USSR. The book was NATO regime-change-attempt propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> Not surprising that UNO branches are in full support of Zelensky's Nazis. But what authority do the UNO branches have to impose sanctions or speak of war crimes by non-Western-bloc countries when the same UNO branches have never spoken of war crimes, regime-change attempts, illegal invasions and illegal sanctions imposed by Western bloc countries ? In fact from Iraq to Libya and Syria the UNO bodies have acted as rubber stamp of criminal group called NATO.
> 
> And speaking of war crimes, the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission instituted by Mahathir Mohamad in 2007 found George Bush jr and Tony B'liar guilty of war crimes in Iraq and called for their arrest which unfortunately has not been done now in 2022. I will say that Iraqis should arrest those two criminals from where ever they find them. But predictable has been the responsible of the NATO rubber stamp UNO to this Malaysian war crimes court :


Dude, it's a movie, we watch it because of the plot and the acting, not about how it reflect in real life, let it go.


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## Madni Bappa

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499610693594669058


Translation pazaosta!



Ich said:


> In german news papers and media they say that Russia shot with tanks at a nuclear power plant. Its a lie as we all know, meanwhile. But this is how the hating propaganda works in Germany. And lots of germans believe what the german newspaper or media say.
> 80 years of brainwashing bring results.


They still following Goebbels formula


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## jhungary

Patriot forever said:


> What do you mean?
> 
> Basically that IKEA furniture is also financed through oil/gas. It is their largest export.
> 
> China is one of the world's leading oil consumer if not the biggest. Probably can absorb alot of Russian oil and gas.


I don't think IKEA was financed by Oil and Gas. I am not talking about Russia, I am talking about IKEA, it's in Sweden.

And in case you have not noticed, the key to the problem is how you are going to set a price.. First of all, oil price fluctuated, today oil price is not the same as tomorrow oil price or yesterday oil price. Second, it's not like general Russian citizen will get a coke bottle and tap the oil rig themselves.


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## Madni Bappa

sammuel said:


> really ? :
> 
> Like the Russians enjoy better freedom of the press . . .
> 
> 
> ( btw , this plant generates 25% of Ukraine's electricity. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


IAEA has confirmed contrary


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## Ich

sammuel said:


> really ? :
> 
> 
> ( btw , this plant generates 25% of Ukraine's electricity. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


Yes, really. Meanwhile some of the newspaper (some start writing at 0600) changed it into "fire on the premises".


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## jhungary

FuturePAF said:


> Happy birthday. (Just curious, are you part Hungarian?)
> How do you see this conflict impacting Chinese military planning?


Thanks

I am not Hungarian.......My name is Gary, and JHUN is all next to each other...hence my name, some interpret my name as a misspell of Hung(a)ry Jack. But.....

In my opinion, I would think China will need to refine their battleplan, if they have any, you can never underestimate the will of everyday citizen to fight, but as I said, I see Chinese taken Taiwan by force unlikely in any case, as I explained before, any sort of Military Operation will have extensive damage to Taiwan infrastructure (and may even damage Chinese own infrastructure) and the reason why China want it is because it is developed and have a lot of pre-existing infrastructure. I don't think China will not want Taiwan that bad if they were a piece of bombed out land like Somalia or Afghanistan....

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## Enigma SIG

sammuel said:


> really ? :
> 
> Like the Russians enjoy better freedom of the press . . .
> 
> 
> ( btw , this plant generates 25% of Ukraine's electricity. )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


>90% chance of Ukrainian self-sabotage.

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## Microsoft

Ich said:


> Yes. And in first place didnt take part in this wars. But Germany isnt free, has to do what US says. *Slaves*. And lots of idiots who do what the gov says, e.g. supporting US-wars and any other US-shit.



Indeed. It's humiliating (even for a non-German) to see the country referred to as the Fatherland be neutered this way.

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## Khanate

*Must watch... 😑*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499370288802406402

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## jamahir

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499610693594669058



@Messerschmitt @Vergennes, when will you post this news ? Perhaps never ?

@BlindEagle, (a). Can you translate what the elderly man is saying ? (b). When you join the Ukraine Foreign Legion aka Nazis will you kill these civilians and the Russians who have come with the trucks to give emergency supplies to the civilians ?

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## Tamerlane

Ich said:


> In german news papers and media they say that Russia shot with tanks at a nuclear power plant. Its a lie as we all know, meanwhile. But this is how the hating propaganda works in Germany. And lots of germans believe what the german newspaper or media say.
> 80 years of brainwashing bring results.



There’s a theory that Germany is a target of this war, apart from Russia. Notice how the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline was ready to go when Zelensky started threatening to acquire nuclear weapons to make sure Putin is left with no choice but to invade?

Now Germany is back in the grip of the Anglo-Zionists. You can’t have relations with Russia. You’ll be buying LNG from the US for twice the price. You’ll do everything you’re told. Beaten yet again.

There’s a positive side, though. Zelensky will cause as much destruction as possible before flying to Tel Aviv. Therefore there will be lots of Ukrainians to man the industries of Western Europe.

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## jamahir

Tamerlane said:


> There’s a positive side, though. Zelensky will cause as much destruction as possible before flying to Tel Aviv.



Putin should be magnanimous and allow Zelensky the opportunity to escape.


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## Madni Bappa

jamahir said:


> @Messerschmitt @Vergennes, when will you post this news ? Perhaps never ?
> 
> @BlindEagle, (a). Can you translate what the elderly man is saying ? (b). When you join the Ukraine Foreign Legion aka Nazis will you kill these civilians and the Russians who have come with the trucks to give emergency supplies to the civilians ?


Best you can give these white hypocrites is this

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## Khanate

*Nuclear threat... 💀*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499590809913602054

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## jamahir

Madni Bappa said:


> Best you can give these white hypocrites is this
> View attachment 820650



I must clarify i.e. if you don't know this already that among those three, BlindEagle is a Bengali-speaking Bangladesh / East Pakistan ancestry but Kuwait resident medical student in Ukraine. And he wants to join the Nazis. Saddam's forces should have taken over Kuwait because it would have never given the opportunity to BlindEagle to have Nazi ideas.

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## OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ

The resistance is futile! Damned if you do damned if you don't!!!
Someone sane in Ukraine must come to the senses. Their president played a game of chicken with Russia, egged on by the west... no where to be seen except needling Russia to the last Ukrainian.
Hollowness stares us back...
Three security council permanent members in Europe and the seat of countless institutions and finance, threading humanity, using their power of coercion and ability to change regimes by hook or by crook .... something seemingly democratic, of values, ideas and rights but in reality hollow! Funded primarily to meet the needs of Europe and the combined west.
So, these sum of passive aggressive organizations such as NATO, a security alliance, the spear behind the facade ....

Reminds me when Dubya said "we're fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here"

Ukraine is a pile of rubble and lesson isn't learnt! Now mercenaries head that way... foreign legions etc ... to what end? Keep needling Russia?
The rules based order IS upended ... but for whatever reason some want to see the other side...
Is this the time?

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## Ich

Madni Bappa said:


> They still following Goebbels formula



Yes! You got it! The german gov use all the technics Goebbels invented in the 3rd Reich.

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## somebozo

World is witnessing a moral hypocrisy of new magnitude in global affairs. No one came forward to raise voice on the poor middle eastern victims of war and drone strikes. Suddenly, everyone is up to save an eastern European country. The law & order, Financial system, trading and shipping lanes are in the hand of the few. Who ever refuses to bow to them suffers the consequences in the form weakening internal security, external political difficulties, financial crisis and crushing inflation. Putin at least takes the credit for standing up to this one sided global order operating entirely from few capitals in the world.

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## Song Hong

Some of the best performing rockets in US are using rocket engine. NASA engine cant compared with Russian till now.




https://tass.com/science/1415893

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## Enigma SIG

Tamerlane said:


> There’s a theory that Germany is a target of this war, apart from Russia. Notice how the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline was ready to go when Zelensky started threatening to acquire nuclear weapons to make sure Putin is left with no choice but to invade?
> 
> Now Germany is back in the grip of the Anglo-Zionists. You can’t have relations with Russia. You’ll be buying LNG from the US for twice the price. You’ll do everything you’re told. Beaten yet again.
> 
> There’s a positive side, though. Zelensky will cause as much destruction as possible before flying to Tel Aviv. Therefore there will be lots of Ukrainians to man the industries of Western Europe.


Lot of people have fled into neighboring Europe, giving a much needed manpower boost for a fraction of the cost .
Zelensky is just doing the bidding of his master. At the end of the day, Ukraine is the loser, with cities a pile of rubble.

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## That Guy

Song Hong said:


> Some of the best performing rockets in US are using rocket engine. NASA engine cant compared with Russian till now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://tass.com/science/1415893
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 820660


*Laughs in Elon Musk*

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## Areesh

What is the status right now? Is the war still raging on? Is Russia moving forward?


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## Zibago

That Guy said:


> *Laughs in Elon Musk*


Sadar Biden ney NASA ko privatize kar key apney ATM ko relief diya


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## Muhammed45

Russian fighter jets eneter Swedish airspace. 
















Areesh said:


> What is the status right now? Is the war still raging on? Is Russia moving forward?


Ceasefire for humanitarian reasons.

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## Zibago

satyamev said:


> not all European countries are the same.
> Germany legally accepted 1 m Syrian refugees.
> While uk scaremongered and paid lip service to the refugees.


UK nuked its own economy for blue passports 
Germany did suffer from some initial setbacks due to its refugee policy but it has also acquired a huge labor force that places it in a better position compared to other European countries suffering from an aging labor force

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## Whizzack

Mujahid Memon said:


> Meanwhile...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US Considers Sanctions On India After It Abstained To Vote On Russia - NDTV
> 
> 
> US President Joe Biden will decide whether to apply or waive sanctions on India, one of America's key partners, under the CAATSA law for its purchase of the S-400 missile defence system from Russia, a senior administration official has told lawmakers. The US administration is required under a...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk



Whoa..! will the Quad now becomes the Triad...?? 

Actually it's not so bad... "Triad" sounds more threatening... 😁

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## Zibago

Hey Pakistanis its ok to point out western hypocrisy in reporting but why are you guys backing Russia? 
Dude what Russia is doing is exactly what India did to us 
We wont take sides but its not justified

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## jhungary

Zibago said:


> UK nuked its own economy for blue passports
> Germany did suffer from some initial setbacks due to its refugee policy but it has also acquired a huge labor force that places it in a better position compared to other European countries suffering from an aging labor force


That's probably the reason why UK open door to those Hong Konger.

They need that half a million highly educated workforce....

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## Microsoft

That Guy said:


> *Laughs in Elon Musk*


Do Elon Musk's rockets also use Russian oil? Which is still being purchased by most Europeans and USA.



Zibago said:


> Hey Pakistanis its ok to point out western hypocrisy in reporting but why are you guys backing Russia?
> Dude what Russia is doing is exactly what India did to us
> We wont take sides but its not justified


Because Russia is giving Pakistan cheap gas due to the conflict. And Pakistan is in desperate need of cheap energy sources


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## SuperStar20

Zelensky wanted to join NATO for security reasons. why are not part of Nato yet. Who is blocking and why is it taking so much time.
If USA and Europe cares about them. They could have included them long back or ASAP after troops build up. 

Russia/putin is very clear about their objective. What is Ukraine/Zelensky objective?


----------



## Trango Towers

RescueRanger said:


> I wish I could double like this post.!
> 
> 
> ….
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499418220142514177


What an idiot!

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## jhungary

Song Hong said:


> White man planners are getting schizo. One on hand, they destroy their plebs with drugs and perversion. On the other hand, facing a discipline and educated China workforce, they scrambled to find good workers.


Highly educated workforce is highly desirable in the world, not just the UK or not just "White Man World" China also import highly educated worker from overseas. 

And it's basically on China to lose those people, if they did not clamp down on Hong Kong, these people won't leave.


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## Aslan

Tamerlane said:


> That's a horrendous death toll, something Muslims haven't suffered since the Mongol invasions.


Are u sure? 
Or did u just skip over the chapter of Russian genocide of Muslims from their lands from Chechnya to samarkand and bukhara.

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## Microsoft

SuperStar20 said:


> Zelensky wanted to join NATO for security reasons. why are not part of Nato yet. Who is blocking and why is it taking so much time.
> If USA and Europe cares about them. They could have included them long back or ASAP after troops build up.
> 
> Russia/putin is very clear about their objective. What is Ukraine/Zelensky objective?



They are not part of NATO because if NATO membership is about to be approved and Russia attacks it becomes a grey area where NATO may be forced to intervene leading to guaranteed WWIII.


----------



## Trango Towers

Zibago said:


> Hey Pakistanis its ok to point out western hypocrisy in reporting but why are you guys backing Russia?
> Dude what Russia is doing is exactly what India did to us
> We wont take sides but its not justified


After 25 years of warnings that expansion of nato is wrong. Poland and former baltic states are part of nato with missiles at Russia's doorstep. This is not wrong? The west egged Ukraine on that we will let you into NATO and EU did they? Now Ukraine after barking at Russia is left to die alone.
Fact is the west lies and lies and lies and so does Russia when it suits them.
For me a Russian victory in Ukraine will have the west arm against Russia. A bipolar world and cold war again. This will help relive pressure on the Muslim world from western combined aggression that has killed 10s of millions in my life alone. So Christian fighting Christians...lefts not get involved. Sit on the fence and f them as they hate us collectively

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## Song Hong

jhungary said:


> Highly educated workforce is highly desirable in the world, not just the UK or not just "White Man World" China also import highly educated worker from overseas.
> 
> And it's basically on China to lose those people, if they did not clamp down on Hong Kong, these people won't leave.




Discipline citizens and drugs are mutually exclusive.


----------



## That Guy

Microsoft said:


> Do Elon Musk's rockets also use Russian oil? Which is still being purchased by most Europeans and USA.
> 
> 
> Because Russia is giving Pakistan cheap gas due to the conflict. And Pakistan is in desperate need of cheap energy sources


Oil can be replaced by another source. A company replacing its source of oil is much easier than an entire nation.


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## jhungary

SuperStar20 said:


> Zelensky wanted to join NATO for security reasons. why are not part of Nato yet. Who is blocking and why is it taking so much time.
> If USA and Europe cares about them. They could have included them long back or ASAP after troops build up.
> 
> Russia/putin is very clear about their objective. What is Ukraine/Zelensky objective?



I wouldn't buy into Putin "NATO" bullshit. 

There are NATO Border with Russia with or without Ukraine, Latvia and Estonia is already bordering Russia, and Lativa is geographically similar in distant than Ukraine, it may even be shorter from Latvia border to Moscow than any point in Ukraine. And what Putin is doing is to push their own border toward NATO, which is no different than what he said he is afraid of.

Ukraine were rejected by NATO twice (so does Russia and Soviet Union) there were always no plan to allow Ukraine into NATO, NATO know such a move will antagonise Russia, but now the Russia invaded, all bets are off, we are now seeing a dramatic shift of Russian Border Country view on NATO, specifically Finland, just a month ago, Finland is 28% in favour of joining NATO, 3 days ago they have another poll, 56% of Finnish ask the government for a referendum for joining NATO. And they are going to get it, unlike Ukraine.

So in effect, what Putin said it was afraid of - the "NATO Expansion", let see what is the different before and after, before invasion, 2 borders. (Latvia, and Estonia) after invasion, assume Russia swallow the entire Ukraine. you got 7 (Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and Romania ) The Border of NATO is set to expanded for over 2000 kms had Russia successfully invaded Ukraine.

Not to mention Russia scare of NATO so bad that they sold S-400 missile system to Turkey....

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## That Guy

SuperStar20 said:


> Zelensky wanted to join NATO for security reasons. why are not part of Nato yet. Who is blocking and why is it taking so much time.
> If USA and Europe cares about them. They could have included them long back or ASAP after troops build up.
> 
> Russia/putin is very clear about their objective. What is Ukraine/Zelensky objective?


Ukraine cannot join NATO due to its rules. If Ukraine had applied before the Russians took Crimea, than it would have been pretty straightforward. With Russia now invading, it's even more unlikely for Ukraine to join, unless they can manage to push the Russians out from their entire territory.


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## jhungary

Song Hong said:


> Discipline citizens and drugs are mutually exclusive.


You say that as if China do not have a dug problem....

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## Microsoft

That Guy said:


> Oil can be replaced by another source. A company replacing its source of oil is much easier than an entire nation.



Then why is western Europe and North America not sanctioning Russian oil and gas? Instead paying billions daily and funding the invasion.


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## That Guy

Microsoft said:


> Then why is western Europe and North America not sanctioning Russian oil and gas? Instead paying billions daily and funding the invasion.


Did....did you not read my comment

I know it's difficult, but go back and sssslllooooowwwwwlllllyyyyyy read my comment, until you can comprehend it.


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## SuperStar20

Microsoft said:


> They are not part of NATO because if NATO membership is about to be approved and Russia attacks it becomes a grey area where NATO may be forced to intervene leading to guaranteed WWIII.



If NATO can't save them, why does Ukraine wants to join them. looks like NATO bait trapped Ukraine into war with Russia. It is NATO's war fought by Ukraine.

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## 8888888888888

More expensive Tesla Rocket Engines is what US has to use now. Can't buy from China because of some outdated law.


----------



## Microsoft

That Guy said:


> Did....did you not read my comment
> 
> I know it's difficult, but go back and sssslllooooowwwwwlllllyyyyyy read my comment, until you can comprehend it.



Please do explain why oil can be replaced by another source but no country is willing to do it.


----------



## Ich

Zibago said:


> UK nuked its own economy for blue passports
> Germany did suffer from some initial setbacks due to its refugee policy but it has also acquired a huge labor force that places it in a better position compared to other European countries suffering from an aging labor force




Wrong. Most of the refugees in Germany are the former terrorist head choppers from Syria who fled to Turkey after the offensiv of the syrien gov (starting 2013) moved on successful. Also the terrorist head chopper from Libya moved over Italy to Germany. They are all sitting in Germany, resting from the wars they did by order of the USA and cant stop killing people what are now germans. Not forget all the fleeing criminals from all over Afrika. And they do not need to work, get more money than a poor german. They even do not need to vaccinate while germans get humilated by gov if they are against corona vaccination. Millions. Not only one million. They are millions. Costing only for the year 2022 55 billion euro. For 1 year! Hundred of billions since 2015! The greatest shit what happend to germany since WW2!

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## Muhammed45

Ich said:


> Wrong. Most of the refugees in Germany are the former terrorist head choppers from Syria who fled to Turkey after the offensiv of the syrien gov (starting 2013) moved on successful. Also the terrorist head chopper from Libya moved over Italy to Germany. They are all sitting in Germany, resting from the wars they did by order of the USA and cant stop killing people what are now germans. Not forget all the fleeing criminals from all over Afrika. And they do not need to work, get more money than a poor german. They even do not need to vaccinate while germans get humilated by gov if they are against corona vaccination. Millions. Not only one million. They are millions. Costing only for the year 2022 55 billion euro. For 1 year! Hundred of billions since 2015! The greatest shit what happend to germany!


They want to change demography of Germans. 

Like brother @Rafi says, nuff said.

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## jamahir

Zibago said:


> Hey Pakistanis its ok to point out western hypocrisy in reporting but why are you guys backing Russia?
> Dude what Russia is doing is exactly what India did to us
> We wont take sides but its not justified



You have changed. Neither are you posting in the 'Pakistani models and actresses' thread anymore nor are you supporting Russia in its goal of de-Nazifying Ukraine and preventing NATO from installing nuclear missiles there nor are you supporting the Aurat March in Pakistan. When did you become a mullah ?


----------



## jhungary

Microsoft said:


> Please do explain why oil can be replaced by another source but no country is willing to do it.


You can, just not at an instant. By the way, US bought very little Russian oil and gas, it wouldn't matter to Russia if US sanction Russian oil and gas.

Oil pipeline is not like your tap in the kitchen, it's not "turn the tap off" then you turn the tap off, there are a lot of physical, legal procedure to consider. What about the gas/oil that HAD already paid? How about the stuff that already underway in delivery? What about infrastructure? How about the company investment?

EU is already in the process of decoupling with Russia with BP leaving the Russian oil company board, then you negotiate a cut off day, Or how Russia is going to refund the money that's already paid. And then you have to deal with the dismantling of the infrastructure.

If you remember the 2 Mistral Class LHD Russian brought from France and was sanctioned by France when Russia annex Crimea? It took France 2 years to settle that deal and resold the ship to Egypt when they brought them in August 2015. And ships are easy because itself is one giant piece of asset, oil right and gas delivery is not so much.

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## Titanium100

Ich said:


> Wrong. Most of the refugees in Germany are the former terrorist head choppers from Syria who fled to Turkey after the offensiv of the syrien gov (starting 2013) moved on successful. Also the terrorist head chopper from Libya moved over Italy to Germany. They are all sitting in Germany, resting from the wars they did by order of the USA and cant stop killing people what are now germans. Not forget all the fleeing criminals from all over Afrika. And they do not need to work, get more money than a poor german. They even do not need to vaccinate while germans get humilated by gov if they are against corona vaccination. Millions. Not only one million. They are millions. Costing only for the year 2022 55 billion euro. For 1 year! Hundred of billions since 2015! The greatest shit what happend to germany since WW2!



You are overexaggerating because Germany took a controlled amount and nobody told them to take them but they did it for there own benefits to keep the economy monster keep running and to prevent crack in the declining tax payer crack...

Germany stands to benefit more then the other way around.. After they reached there treeshold they stopped taking more..

They have all entered the germany tax payer system and working system..

There are equal amount pro-assadist who fleed into germany due to poverty as there areas are more poverty ridden..

The culprit germany themselves trying to prevent the same phenomenon happening to china now which is population crash which causes economic disruption.. It was not done out of humanity but it was calculated measure once treeshold was reached they stopped


----------



## Microsoft

jhungary said:


> You can, just not at an instant. By the way, US bought very little Russian oil and gas, it wouldn't matter to Russia if US sanction Russian oil and gas.
> 
> Oil pipeline is not like your tap in the kitchen, it's not "turn the tap off" then you turn the tap off, there are a lot of physical, legal procedure to consider. What about the gas/oil that HAD already paid? How about the stuff that already underway? What about infrastructure? How about the company investment?
> 
> EU is already in the process of decoupling with Russia with BP leaving the Russian oil company board, then you negotiate a cut off day, Or how Russia is going to refund the money that's already paid. And then you have to deal with the dismantling of the infrastructure.
> 
> If you remember the 2 Mistral Class LHD Russian brought from France and was sanctioned by France when Russia annex Crimea? It took France 2 years to settle that deal and resold the ship to Egypt when they brought them in August 2015. And ships are easy because itself is one giant piece of asset, oil right and gas deliver is not so much.



US oil and gas sanctions may not matter to Russia but they would matter to US public as they are unhappy with oil prices already. The rest you are describing are also monetary costs the European countries are unwilling to pay. Yet they want to criticize others for purchasing the same oil and gas and offer up lip service for Ukraine instead of taking real measures to harm Russia without getting militarily involved.

Also I interpreted that as switch to renewable source instead of oil.


----------



## jhungary

Microsoft said:


> US oil and gas sanctions may not matter to Russia but they would matter to US public as they are unhappy with oil prices already. The rest you are describing are also monetary costs the European countries are unwilling to pay. Yet they want to criticize others for purchasing the same oil and gas and offer up lip service for Ukraine instead of taking real measures to harm Russia without getting militarily involved.
> 
> Also I interpreted that as switch to renewable source instead of oil.


Russian oil have no affect on US oil price, because it does not affect the stock level as much.

Current estimation for US oil import from Russia is 700,000-750,000 barrel a day, that may seems like a big number to you, but if you compare the daily US oil consumption, which is 18.2 million barrel a day, that number represent 0.02 or 0.03% of daily oil use in the US.






Use of oil - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)


The types and amounts of petroleum products consumed annually in the United States, and a list of the top 5 gasoline consuming states.




www.eia.gov







> In 2020, *U.S. petroleum consumption averaged about 18.12 million barrels per day (b/d)*, which included nearly 1 million b/d of biofuels.1 U.S. total petroleum consumption was about 13% lower in 2020 than the levels in 2018 and 2019 largely because of responses to the COVID-19 pandemic. Consumption of most petroleum products in 2020 was lower than in 2019.



The reason of the price hike is more toward the European side, Nord Stream 2 suspension and eventually cancellation and the shifting of supply to Europe is the reason why the prices goes up, and sanctioning Russia oil and gas industry will not make it stabilise. The only way we can hurt the Russian Oil and Gas industry is for us and Saudi to increase oil and gas production. Which is being done now.

If and when US ramp up the production, that would soothe the demand, and price go down, and Russia can't sell shit because they no longer have the infrastructure to do so. They can try to dump it on China but China can only take a certain amount of oil and gas, they can't take them all.


----------



## sammuel

Ich said:


> Yes! You got it! The german gov use all the technics Goebbels invented in the 3rd Reich.



I don't see Germans being arrested for protesting like in Russia . I don't see news site in Germany closed like they do in Russia , where the public is fed what Putin wants to feed them.

Seems you like to talk about " Nazis " a lot , seems like a Putin trend. ( sure he invaded Ukraine to fight Nazis , what bs )

But your avatar is that of a Nazi war criminal , which tells what you are all about :

*Albert Kesselring* (30 November 1885 – 16 July 1960) was a German _Generalfeldmarschall_ of the Luftwaffe during World War II who was subsequently convicted of war crimes.


----------



## kingQamaR

SuperStar20 said:


> If NATO can't save them, why does Ukraine wants to join them. looks like NATO bait trapped Ukraine into war with Russia. It is NATO's war fought by Ukraine.



because Ukraine is not a NATO member, and that would mean WW3, and no one wants that. I would have thought that much was obvious.


----------



## TheNoob

sammuel said:


> I don't see Germans being arrested for protesting like in Russia . * I don't see news site in Germany closed like they do in Russia *, where the public is fed what Putin wants to feed them.
> 
> Seems you like to talk about " Nazis " a lot , seems like a Putin trend. ( sure he invaded Ukraine to fight Nazis , what bs )
> 
> But your avatar is that of a Nazi war criminal , which tells what you are all about :
> 
> *Albert Kesselring* (30 November 1885 – 16 July 1960) was a German _Generalfeldmarschall_ of the Luftwaffe during World War II who was subsequently convicted of war crimes.



Damn, did you just say that?
Just to make it clear, it was Europe that started banning Russian Television and Russians in response banned the foreign ones in their territory.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Areesh said:


> Yup. Too late in capturing Kiev


It isnot too late. Russia is just not interested in capturing Kiev at this moment as they needed Zalensky team at the negotiating table in Belarus. 

They are just encircling the city like what they did in Syria. 

It is all those cities in the Dombass, Lugansk and Donetsk that are under attacked, where they are striking at military and administrative targets ith precision weapons.


----------



## Ich

Titanium100 said:


> You are overexaggerating because Germany took a controlled amount and nobody told them to take them but they did it for there own benefits to keep the economy monster keep running and to prevent crack in the declining tax payer crack...
> 
> Germany stands to benefit more then the other way around.. After they reached there treeshold they stopped taking more..
> 
> They have all entered the germany tax payer system and working system..
> 
> There are equal amount pro-assadist who fleed into germany due to poverty as there areas are more poverty ridden..
> 
> The culprit germany themselves trying to prevent the same phenomenon happening to china now which is population crash which causes economic disruption.. It was not done out of humanity but it was calculated measure once treeshold was reached they stopped


Bullshit!


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> I mean the new weapon pack that was sent 3 days ago. The one that US said it is estimated 1 billions worth arm aide.
> 
> I think they have a few launcher before, now the entire country will be flooded with them. (report said it's "hundred" of launcher)


Hundreds, hmmmm, but they have thousands of aircraft. so there will have to be many many more shipped?

I dont think the Stingers will help with jets very much, but helicopters definitely and CAS to some extent.


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Hundreds, hmmmm, but they have thousands of aircraft. so there will have to be many many more shipped?
> 
> I dont think the Stingers will help with jets very much, but helicopters definitely and CAS to some extent.


They will be used the way the Iraqi and Afghan used on us.

It's not what they can shoot down is a problem, but they are mobile, means you cannot predict where they may be at, and when you see one, you need to shut down the entire airspace for chopper and support and also CAS, it's not using them is the problem for the Russian, it's they "May" use it and you don't know that's scare them.

You just dont know where will they pop up


----------



## kingQamaR

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> It isnot too late. Russia is just not interested in capturing Kiev at this moment as they needed Zalensky team at the negotiating table in Belarus.
> 
> They are just encircling the city like what they did in Syria.
> 
> It is all those cities in the Dombass, Lugansk and Donetsk that are under attacked, where they are striking at military and administrative targets ith precision weapons.



And how do you think, any Ukrainian PM is going to be able go back to Kiev and sell a Russian deal to 44 million citizens that will strips them off all there freedom and sovereignty, annexation of half there state given to Russia. And no more access to the Black Sea completely land locked depended on Russian agreement to become a vassal state of Moscow.


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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499658285250715648


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## Titanium100

Ich said:


> Bullshit!



This is not BS. I have even talked about it before here about an evacuation plan to pull them out because despite them holding Western nationalities as majority of them over 90%+ are long term resident meaning Second or Third generations like myself while these coming from Syria lately only number 1m and below 3% including the recent comers.

But it is the western governments themselves who would decline such an evacuation plan to happen today pulling 4% population out there economies as they would be the once to be hit by it economically hence they would attempt to deny it until the last minute and hold onto them. All the relevant countries of these ethnic groups will act fast and pull out their people immediately... But the West will be the one imho delaying this as far as possible if this was to be activated as they would stand to lose out on it economically whereas these taking them will not benefit in the short-term but in the long term they would but they would have no other choice but to evacuate them due to blood.. We will pull out every single Individual if we see signs of far-rights, neo-nazi or destabilizing chaos like Ukraine from the normally peaceful western world.

This is from a thread I made before...
-------------------------------
In times of disaster and now don't get me wrong this is not an alarmist thread or anything of that sort just talking about measures that needs to be taken in times of need and this will also be good for our western allies and cooperating with them to withdraw our people fully in disasterous events and god forbid if some sort of far-right groups were to come to power we could trigger this plan which is an evacuation plan. Example I was alarmed hearing someone campaigning with the slogan reconquista that is just insensitive imho and unnecessary but that being said I don't see anything unexpected happening for atleast 2-3 decades but that doesn't mean we shouldn't put measures in place and be-prepared for it to immediately pull our people out.

The amount of Muslims that needs to be pulled and who needs to be doing the pull out I will list it here from the western world.

The Western world (Is basically NATO members + Australia + New Zealand + Ukraine + Switzerland Minus Turkey-Albania and totals 33 countries with a total population of *950m to 1B) *I Didn't know myself the west population wise reached 1 billion ppl but either way our focus is a small tiny numbers amongst these and to be exact we need to pull out 31.2m muslims.

Each country needs to have such plan in place by contacting the host countries and if they were to fail to up hold their security due to rise of populism or far-right extremism in last effort measure the said country has to intervene to do evacuation and the host country can cooperate in contacting ahead before it is activated or instead of that do a timetable and pull in a certain timeline example lets say like 2040s etc etc creating a pull out date if these said countries become unstable via populism, far right extremism or unexpected war happens where an attack by Russia, China or Other elements occur.

Morocco: 5m

Algeria: 1m

Pakistan: 3m

Turkey: 12m

KSA: 1m

Tunisia: 1.2m

Egypt: 1.5m

Sh.Hasina: 2m

Afghan: 1m

Indonesia: 1m

the Rest: 2.5m (UAE, Qatar, Malaysia, Lebanese, Iran, Jordanians and other smaller groups Central Asia etc etc who don't migrate )
31.2m out 950M-1billion westerners that is roughly 3.26% for pull out where approx 1% to 0.5% have apostated and will not want to be evacuated meaning approx 20m will be pulled out by different governments.

We can't allow history to repeat itself we have to learn from what happened to the jews and we can't let our people fall victim to something we know can happen anyday.

Besides this people this are valuable to us and each country will put in place housing units constructions already now and by the time of pull out all their houses, towns and suburbans are ready by the time they return back.

I know we already have 1.5B people and this makes us sound greedy but we can't afford to lose one single invididual to unnecessary causes but either way we need to take them back whether it is via timetable where we just pull them out on our own accord which I am mostly in favor off or doing it in time of need that needs to also be discussed..

But I am more in favor of leaving on a timetable regardless of the situation just pulling all off them out on that exact timetable...

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499661180784291843

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## lamdacore

Corax said:


> I agree with a lot of your thoughts, there was no reason to keep NATO after the end of the Cold War, and should have been disbanded, much like the Warsaw Pact was. It has been used by the US to keep its grip on European policy, especially towards Russia. However, hasn't Putin played into the US trap here? He's doing the very thing that the US wants, and to justify having NATO in the first place. Won't this only strengthen NATO, not weaken it? The US has been asking European NATO members to increase their defence spending, and this is exactly what Germany has done, and probably more to follow. Moreover, it has also turned Europe against Russian influence in the region. As much as the sanctions will hurt both Russia and Europe, and given the decarbonisation trend anyway, this has only accelerated Europe's attempts to abandon fissile fuels anyway, and move to alternative sources and energy. Russia hasn't done much in that regard, and will probably hurt it more if there is a complete ban on Russian oil and gas. In addition, Europe could source their supplies from the US and Middle East instead.



The thing is that the US had laid the trap many years ago before Trump when its used to foot the bill of Nato which other members did not want to pay. This indicates that the US needed Nato more than Europeans themselves. The US has to have an enemy, a nemesis so it can always justify the need to maintain an expensive and large military. Hence, the reason keep pushing the boundaries further towards Russia. This is what military and strategic thinkers did.

However, Trump accendancy to presidency had done away with such arrangements. Being a businessman, he looked at the books and his approach to politics was highly transactional. This is why he put the US at odds with Nato member and pressured them to step forward to pay the bill. Prior to this the Europeans were in for a free lunch. This caused significant dents and fractures in Nato. Guess who was watching while this happened? Putin.

Europeans are equally dependent on Russia for a number of critical imports. Germany leads the EU and it is very comfortable with Russia. The Ukraine war has put it in a difficult position. Generally, whatever direction Germany takes, EU generally follows.

Now, lets assume Russia has played into the hands of the US and Nato and re-energised the bloc, then lets answer some of the following questions:

1) Who will fund Nato and to what degree? As I said, the US footed the bill when Nato was least needed and the Europeans had a problem with that. Now, if Russia's invation of Ukraine has spurred activity to increase and bolster Nato, well...that is not going to be cheap and the US will not foot the bill especially now that is playing catchup and the geo-economic and geo-political status quo is changing. My guess is, not many Europeans will be willing to pay this tall bill.
2) Then, if the EU is not willing to pay the Nato bill what relevance will Nato have? Europeans have come to like peace and will be keen to return to that state. Which is easier, pay for Nato or make peace with Russia? I am inclined to believe that there will be some who will opt for the latter.
3) If some Europeans decide to seek peace with Russia than what unity are we talking about in Nato? How will a disunited Europe be bound in Nato?
4) Germany would love to have this war end quickly so it can resume business with Russia. Its contributions to Ukraine are, honestly, lacklustre and for good reason. As I mentioned before, if Germany seeks peace with Russia then the rest of EU will follow.

This is what Putin senses and is gambling on. I am not rooting for him to win I am simply pointing out is strategy...his chess move. I dont know if this will pan out in the same way or not.

Russia does not want war with Nato, it will equally seek peace with EU once the Ukraine problem is dealt with. The US will have to choose its strategic competitor...is it Russia or China or both. It has resources to deal with only one.

That is why I belive the days of Nato are numbered and all this noise of re-engergising Nato and knee jerk reactions with sanctions are simply going to bite Europeans. It is too expensive to be in a cold war mentality.

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## Ich

sammuel said:


> I don't see Germans being arrested for protesting like in Russia . I don't see news site in Germany closed like they do in Russia , where the public is fed what Putin wants to feed them.
> 
> Seems you like to talk about " Nazis " a lot , seems like a Putin trend. ( sure he invaded Ukraine to fight Nazis , what bs )
> 
> But your avatar is that of a Nazi war criminal , which tells what you are all about :
> 
> *Albert Kesselring* (30 November 1885 – 16 July 1960) was a German _Generalfeldmarschall_ of the Luftwaffe during World War II who was subsequently convicted of war crimes.



Haha, you know nothing about Germany! E.g. on social media hundred of thousends german accounts get deleted cause of not having the official oppinion of the german gov. All newspaper write the official oppinion of the gov. Thousends protesting every Monday against the decissions of the gov and get beaten and arrested by police. Also thousends loose their job for not having the oppinion of the gov and tell it loud. Germany is now the same dictatorship as it was in the 3rd Reich.

Kesselring was great in military logistics and leading airplanes together with land forces while organizing their logistic support (Rommel was an really bad general who messed all up. Kesselring predicted his failing, provided a better plan, but Hitler liked Rommel and so...)

Also:

"May 6: A British military court in Venice-Mestre finds Kesselring guilty of *knowing and tolerating* the shooting of hostages and members of the Italian liberation movement in southern Italy, in violation of international law and the law of war."

The "italian liberation movement" attacked german soldiers and do not captive them, but kill them on spot. So it was tit for tat.

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## jhungary

NotSure said:


> .


Oh for crying out loud, I did a typo, as if you never misspell something.

Since when is typo not allowed??

If this is the best you can get, then well, you probably need to try harder.

@LeGenD is it possible to take action against this member, he has been harassing me for quite some time.


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## NotSure

jhungary said:


> Oh for crying out loud, I did a typo, as if you never misspell something.
> 
> Since when is typo not allowed??
> 
> If this is the best you can get, then well, you probably need to try harder.
> 
> 
> @LeGenD is it possible to take action against this member, he has been harassing me for quite some time.



Yeah, a typo. The same typo with the % you did yesterday. Exactly the same error.


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## gambit

Saho said:


> lmao


I think Poutine is afraid of assassination.






Was this behavior noticed before the Ukraine invasion? I do not think this is about ego. Certainly powerful personalities have more than robust egos, but Poutine have never been known to be flamboyant about himself. Confident of his authority and power, yes. But not flamboyant. So *WHEN* did this staying afaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from his staff and advisers came? Russia's leaders do have a history of unexplained disappearances, so am beginning to suspect that Poutine is on red alert about his own potential disappearance.

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## CAPRICORN-88

kingQamaR said:


> And how do you think, any Ukrainian PM is going to be able go back to Kiev and sell a Russian deal to 44 million citizens that will strips them off all there freedom and sovereignty, annexation of half there state given to Russia. And no more access to the Black Sea completely land locked depended on Russian agreement to become a vassal state of Moscow.


Well. Ukraine did signed the Minsk II agreement.

Comedian Zalensky just have to follow the original script and better stop all the BSing. 

Comply with it if he wants peace or really care about Ukrainian people.

The option is to go into exile. It is not a choice.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499491610513580035

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499500847348256777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499470411964235781

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499652528786616322

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499657667790446595

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499663886466830345

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## jhungary

NotSure said:


> Yeah, a typo. The same typo with the % you did yesterday. Exactly the same error.


I did one just a few days ago in another post without number? And I sometime type number in a otherwise word post. So?

I sometime use my phone and my qwerty keyboard switch to symbol sometime, I don't understand what is your problem with that.

Again, if this is the best you get You need to try harder.

Just a heads up, you need a calculator to get the number and I for one cannot do 750,000/18,200,000 in my mind, and if you used a calculator to do that calculation would have know the result is 0.03, So if that is not a typo, then my calculator is lying to me by showing 0.0003.

What a pillar. What you said is just not making sense.....


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499665642089328640

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499666054758518786

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## Maula Jatt

gambit said:


> I think Poutine is afraid of assassination.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was this behavior noticed before the Ukraine invasion? I do not think this is about ego. Certainly powerful personalities have more than robust egos, but Poutine have never been known to be flamboyant about himself. Confident of his authority and power, yes. But not flamboyant. So *WHEN* did this staying afaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from his staff and advisers came? Russia's leaders do have a history of unexplained disappearances, so am beginning to suspect that Poutine is on red alert about his own potential disappearance.


https://www.dawn.com/news/1678230/us-senator-lindsey-graham-calls-for-putins-assassination

*Senior US senator Lindsey Graham called for “somebody in Russia” to assassinate President Vladimir Putin after Moscow's invasion of Ukraine in a televised interview on Thursday evening.*

“How does this end? Somebody in Russia has to step up to the plate... and take this guy out,” the senator told conservative Fox News TV host Sean Hannity

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499574209567199235Mind games are working people, may a patriotic Russki cleanse us from this mad man

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## Zibago

jhungary said:


> That's probably the reason why UK open door to those Hong Konger.
> 
> They need that half a million highly educated workforce....


Exactly and UK understands that even though they made an oopsie due to reactionism

Even the strength of US economy is its ability to attract the best talent from everywhere be it in form of farm workers or doctors.
That strength of US is highly underrated even by Americans themselves.

Countries in eastern Europe are going through massive population declines that are threatening their economic stability and this surge of migrants will help them greatly no matter how Ukraine crisis ends

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## Piotr

Putin Saved Thousands of Lives in Donbass Republics, Pre-Maidan Ukrainian Prime Minister Says​14 minutes ago

On 24 February, Russia launched a special military operation in Ukraine in response to calls from the Donbass republics to protect them from intensifying attacks by Ukrainian troops.
Former Ukrainian Prime Minister Nikolay Azarov has stated that Russian President *Vladimir Putin has saved thousands of lives in the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics by ordering a special military operation in Ukraine.*
"Only now do we have an opportunity to make public intelligence data on the preparation of a provocation followed by a treacherous strike with the destruction of the population in the territory of LPR and DPR. Putin outpaced Ukraine and NATO and actually saved hundreds of thousands of lives of the [Donbass] republics", Azarov wrote on his Facebook page, in an apparent nod to the ongoing Russian special operation.

https://sputniknews.com/20220304/pu...ukrainian-prime-minister-says-1093577806.html

Thank you President Putin.

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## NotSure

Sainthood 101 said:


> Mind games are working people, may a patriotic Russki cleanse us from this mad man


Another example, how posters do not know even the most basic things, are trying to play smart.
Patriotic people in Russia said 8 years ago, when this mess started, Putin need to attack the bandera regime and end this whole Nato story there.

Now Putin is doing exactly this.

By the way: This Lindsey Lohan, sorry, Graham, is a notorious shit talker. Something like the murican Zhirinovsky.

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## Madni Bappa

Sainthood 101 said:


> https://www.dawn.com/news/1678230/us-senator-lindsey-graham-calls-for-putins-assassination
> 
> *Senior US senator Lindsey Graham called for “somebody in Russia” to assassinate President Vladimir Putin after Moscow's invasion of Ukraine in a televised interview on Thursday evening.*
> 
> “How does this end? Somebody in Russia has to step up to the plate... and take this guy out,” the senator told conservative Fox News TV host Sean Hannity
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499574209567199235Mind games are working people, may a patriotic Russki cleanse us from this mad man


I've seen some Americans posting something like "Beware the ides of March" now seeing this from Graham is very concerning. 

A lot of destabilization and adverse economic effects will come towards Central and South Asia if Putin falls. And there is chaos in Russia. 

So many other factors that can bring instability.


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## Zibago

Ich said:


> Wrong. Most of the refugees in Germany are the former terrorist head choppers from Syria who fled to Turkey after the offensiv of the syrien gov (starting 2013) moved on successful. Also the terrorist head chopper from Libya moved over Italy to Germany. They are all sitting in Germany, resting from the wars they did by order of the USA and cant stop killing people what are now germans. Not forget all the fleeing criminals from all over Afrika. And they do not need to work, get more money than a poor german. They even do not need to vaccinate while germans get humilated by gov if they are against corona vaccination. Millions. Not only one million. They are millions. Costing only for the year 2022 55 billion euro. For 1 year! Hundred of billions since 2015! The greatest shit what happend to germany since WW2!


I don't know doc
Not everyone fleeing war is a terrorist








Germany welcomed refugees. Now it’s reaping the economic benefits


German companies need more skilled workers. Refugees are helping to fill the gap.




www.aljazeera.com







Microsoft said:


> Do Elon Musk's rockets also use Russian oil? Which is still being purchased by most Europeans and USA.
> 
> 
> Because Russia is giving Pakistan cheap gas due to the conflict. And Pakistan is in desperate need of cheap energy sources


Take a neutral stance
Just say bs like west says

We want de escalation and all sides should sit down to resolve their bilateral issues through dialogue

Stop glorifying Russian actions



Muhammed45 said:


> They want to change demography of Germans.
> 
> Like brother @Rafi says, nuff said.


Most second gen immigrants have social values not that different from other Europeans 
Germans saw the American approach and implemented it in their country

They will be in a much better position compared to Italy and Spain

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## Zibago

Trango Towers said:


> After 25 years of warnings that expansion of nato is wrong. Poland and former baltic states are part of nato with missiles at Russia's doorstep. This is not wrong? The west egged Ukraine on that we will let you into NATO and EU did they? Now Ukraine after barking at Russia is left to die alone.
> Fact is the west lies and lies and lies and so does Russia when it suits them.
> For me a Russian victory in Ukraine will have the west arm against Russia. A bipolar world and cold war again. This will help relive pressure on the Muslim world from western combined aggression that has killed 10s of millions in my life alone. So Christian fighting Christians...lefts not get involved. Sit on the fence and f them as they hate us collectively


Both Russia and Ukraine are on good terms with Pakistan
As a Pakistani this conflict doesn't suit us
The concerns of both countries is of no value to us and are issues they should resolve

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## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


> Well, you seems to only get "cancelled" if you molest a woman (or in Kevin Spacey case a man), or going full racist on a black man, killing a white woman on a movie set is a nickel and dime thing in America apparently
> 
> That said I still feel sad then Brandon Lee was killed by Michael Massee by accident.


That was indeed a sad time, another legend taken far too soon.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499656836743843844


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## NotSure

Maybe it's russian propaganda, but it seems, the ukr army is now attacking their own Azov units, because they stopped to obey orders. I c&p the text from the 4chan board:



> "The headquarters of the Azov special-purpose detachment in south-west Mariupol has been hit by a Tochka-U missile defence system, the Ukrainian Armed Forces have said. More than 20 fighters and 10 pieces of equipment were destroyed in the strike.
> 
> The reason for the strike was contradictions between the AFU command and Azov's complete refusal to obey and coordinate its actions with the command of the Ukrainian troops

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## dBSPL

List of embargoes applied to Russia on consumer market(firms) and social(organisations):
(Pay attention to digital services and be careful not to be stuck with these apps/services.)

Apple Pay - full block
Apple - full exit from the market
Adidas - refusal to work with the national football team
Audi - not available anymore
AMD - banned the supply of microchips and soon the supply of video cards will be banned
Amazon - blocked all retail sales
Adobe - fully blocked
British Petrolium - their shares left Rosneft
BBC - cancellation of broadcast licenses
BMW - closes factories, blocks materials
Bolt - market exit
Boeing - exit from the market
Chevrolet - not available
Cannes Festival - block Russian delegation
Cadillac - not available
Carlsberg - export restriction
Cex Io - crypto platform bans ru users
Cinema 4D - application not working
Coca Cola - exit from the market
Danone exits the market with its subsidiary Prostokvashino
Disney - cancel all movies
Dell - exit
Dropbox - will stop working in the country in a few days
DHL - exit from the market
Eurovision - disqualification
Ericsson - exit the market
Exxon Mobil recalls all experts of Russian oil companies
Blocking all balances on Etsy - ru accounts
Facebook - Russian media account ban
FedEx - a complete ban on deliveries
Formula 1 - cancellation of the tournament in Sochi
Ford - closing all stores
FIFA - disqualification of the national team for the World Cup and prohibition of holding any international matches in the Russian Federation
Google Pay - partial blocking
Google Maps - blocked information for Russia
General Motors - suspends exports
HP - import ban
Harley Davidson - cut supplies
Instagram - blocking propaganda
Intel - microchip supply ban
Jaguar - out of the market
Jooble - removed the service and made a statement
KUNA - exit from the market
Lenovo - exit from market
LinkedIn - preparing for a full departure from the country
MOK - cancellation of all competitions
Mastercard - suspension of card production, closure of several banks
Maersk - stop deliveries to / from Russia - farewell equipment with Ali express and ASOS
Mercedes - outside the country
Megogo - deleted all Russian movies
Metro - layoffs of 10 thousand employees
Mitsubishi - dismissal of 141 service center employees
Microsoft Office - a wide variety of measures are discussed
Mobile World Congress - denial of accreditation for a delegation from the Russian Federation
NFT - currency blocks of users of the Russian Federation and the Republic of Belarus, the transfer of their money to Ukraine
NHL - full block for players from Russia
Netflix - block for Russian subscriptions, stop production of Russian TV series
Nike - close all stores
Nintendo - ban on buying in rubles
Nestle closes all 6 factories in Russia
OnlyFans - shutdown in the country
Paysera - blocking
PayPal - freezing accounts for withdrawals
Paramount - movie distribution block
Parimatch - franchise withdrawn
Play Station - payment could not be completed
Pornhub - ban on access to content
Porsche - Exit from Russia
Renault - exit from the market
Samsung payment - service blocking
Snapchat - exited the app in Russia and Belarus
Scania - exit from the Russian Federation
SpaceX - delivery of Starlink to Ukraine
Shell - termination of contract with Gazprom
Spotify - unable to pay for subscription
Sony - movie distribution block
Twitter - You cannot open an account for citizens of the Russian Federation
TikTok - massive ban of aggressive contents and propaganda
Toyota - layoffs of 2,600 employees
UEFA - St. Petersburg, the ban on participation of all clubs in the Champions League and Champions League, termination of the contract with the general sponsor Gazprom
UPS - a complete ban on deliveries
Visa - blocking of banks under sanctions
Volvo - withdraw from the Russian Federation
Yandex - exclusion of company shares from quotes on the NY stock exchange
YouTube - block hundreds of RF channels and their monetization
Warner Bros cancels all movie distribution
Webmoney - prohibition of transactions
Volkswagen - going out of the country
Zoom - revocation of software development licenses

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499671023511392258

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## Ich

Zibago said:


> I don't know doc
> Not everyone fleeing war is a terrorist
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Germany welcomed refugees. Now it’s reaping the economic benefits
> 
> 
> German companies need more skilled workers. Refugees are helping to fill the gap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com



LOL its bullshit. A lot of them cant even read or write. There is no economic benefit for the german people if "refugees" cost up to 55 billion per year. Sure some companies will benefit in the low salary sector cause of subsidies they get for giving a "refugee" a job. But it is a gain for this company, not a benefit for the german people.

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## Zibago

jhungary said:


> Russian oil have no affect on US oil price, because it does not affect the stock level as much.
> 
> Current estimation for US oil import from Russia is 700,000-750,000 barrel a day, that may seems like a big number to you, but if you compare the daily US oil consumption, which is 18.2 million barrel a day, that number represent 0.02 or 0.03% of daily oil use in the US.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Use of oil - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
> 
> 
> The types and amounts of petroleum products consumed annually in the United States, and a list of the top 5 gasoline consuming states.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.eia.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reason of the price hike is more toward the European side, Nord Stream 2 suspension and eventually cancellation and the shifting of supply to Europe is the reason why the prices goes up, and sanctioning Russia oil and gas industry will not make it stabilise. The only way we can hurt the Russian Oil and Gas industry is for us and Saudi to increase oil and gas production. Which is being done now.
> 
> If and when US ramp up the production, that would soothe the demand, and price go down, and Russia can't sell shit because they no longer have the infrastructure to do so. They can try to dump it on China but China can only take a certain amount of oil and gas, they can't take them all.


So how will Americans treat Saudi demand of supporting them without conditions in Yemen and hushing up on criticism of MBS?








Saudi crown prince plays the oil card in quest for U.S. recognition


Saudi Arabia's crown prince says he simply doesn't care whether Joe Biden misunderstands him.




www.reuters.com





Ukraine crisis will have implications for both Yemen and Syria and there are so many directions where this could go

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## Enigma SIG

https://www.rt.com/news/551148-napoleon-hitler-lavrov-interview/



_“The European Union has been shown its place. The Nord Stream 2 story has shown perfectly the real place that the EU has on the world stage,”_ Lavrov asserted.

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## Vergennes

A total massacre...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499649888677732353

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## Enigma SIG

dBSPL said:


> List of embargoes applied to Russia on consumer market(firms) and social(organisations):
> (Pay attention to digital services and be careful not to be stuck with these apps/services.)
> 
> Apple Pay - full block
> Apple - full exit from the market
> Adidas - refusal to work with the national football team
> Audi - not available anymore
> AMD - banned the supply of microchips and soon the supply of video cards will be banned
> Amazon - blocked all retail sales
> Adobe - fully blocked
> British Petrolium - their shares left Rosneft
> BBC - cancellation of broadcast licenses
> BMW - closes factories, blocks materials
> Bolt - market exit
> Boeing - exit from the market
> Chevrolet - not available
> Cannes Festival - block Russian delegation
> Cadillac - not available
> Carlsberg - export restriction
> Cex Io - crypto platform bans ru users
> Cinema 4D - application not working
> Coca Cola - exit from the market
> Danone exits the market with its subsidiary Prostokvashino
> Disney - cancel all movies
> Dell - exit
> Dropbox - will stop working in the country in a few days
> DHL - exit from the market
> Eurovision - disqualification
> Ericsson - exit the market
> Exxon Mobil recalls all experts of Russian oil companies
> Blocking all balances on Etsy - ru accounts
> Facebook - Russian media account ban
> FedEx - a complete ban on deliveries
> Formula 1 - cancellation of the tournament in Sochi
> Ford - closing all stores
> FIFA - disqualification of the national team for the World Cup and prohibition of holding any international matches in the Russian Federation
> Google Pay - partial blocking
> Google Maps - blocked information for Russia
> General Motors - suspends exports
> HP - import ban
> Harley Davidson - cut supplies
> Instagram - blocking propaganda
> Intel - microchip supply ban
> Jaguar - out of the market
> Jooble - removed the service and made a statement
> KUNA - exit from the market
> Lenovo - exit from market
> LinkedIn - preparing for a full departure from the country
> MOK - cancellation of all competitions
> Mastercard - suspension of card production, closure of several banks
> Maersk - stop deliveries to / from Russia - farewell equipment with Ali express and ASOS
> Mercedes - outside the country
> Megogo - deleted all Russian movies
> Metro - layoffs of 10 thousand employees
> Mitsubishi - dismissal of 141 service center employees
> Microsoft Office - a wide variety of measures are discussed
> Mobile World Congress - denial of accreditation for a delegation from the Russian Federation
> NFT - currency blocks of users of the Russian Federation and the Republic of Belarus, the transfer of their money to Ukraine
> NHL - full block for players from Russia
> Netflix - block for Russian subscriptions, stop production of Russian TV series
> Nike - close all stores
> Nintendo - ban on buying in rubles
> Nestle closes all 6 factories in Russia
> OnlyFans - shutdown in the country
> Paysera - blocking
> PayPal - freezing accounts for withdrawals
> Paramount - movie distribution block
> Parimatch - franchise withdrawn
> Play Station - payment could not be completed
> Pornhub - ban on access to content
> Porsche - Exit from Russia
> Renault - exit from the market
> Samsung payment - service blocking
> Snapchat - exited the app in Russia and Belarus
> Scania - exit from the Russian Federation
> SpaceX - delivery of Starlink to Ukraine
> Shell - termination of contract with Gazprom
> Spotify - unable to pay for subscription
> Sony - movie distribution block
> Twitter - You cannot open an account for citizens of the Russian Federation
> TikTok - massive ban of aggressive contents and propaganda
> Toyota - layoffs of 2,600 employees
> UEFA - St. Petersburg, the ban on participation of all clubs in the Champions League and Champions League, termination of the contract with the general sponsor Gazprom
> UPS - a complete ban on deliveries
> Visa - blocking of banks under sanctions
> Volvo - withdraw from the Russian Federation
> Yandex - exclusion of company shares from quotes on the NY stock exchange
> YouTube - block hundreds of RF channels and their monetization
> Warner Bros cancels all movie distribution
> Webmoney - prohibition of transactions
> Volkswagen - going out of the country
> Zoom - revocation of software development licenses

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## 8888888888888



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## Madni Bappa

lamdacore said:


> The thing is that the US had laid the trap many years ago before Trump when its used to foot the bill of Nato which other members did not want to pay. This indicates that the US needed Nato more than Europeans themselves. The US has to have an enemy, a nemesis so it can always justify the need to maintain an expensive and large military. Hence, the reason keep pushing the boundaries further towards Russia. This is what military and strategic thinkers did.
> 
> However, Trump accendancy to presidency had done away with such arrangements. Being a businessman, he looked at the books and his approach to politics was highly transactional. This is why he put the US at odds with Nato member and pressured them to step forward to pay the bill. Prior to this the Europeans were in for a free lunch. This caused significant dents and fractures in Nato. Guess who was watching while this happened? Putin.
> 
> Europeans are equally dependent on Russia for a number of critical imports. Germany leads the EU and it is very comfortable with Russia. The Ukraine war has put it in a difficult position. Generally, whatever direction Germany takes, EU generally follows.
> 
> Now, lets assume Russia has played into the hands of the US and Nato and re-energised the bloc, then lets answer some of the following questions:
> 
> 1) Who will fund Nato and to what degree? As I said, the US footed the bill when Nato was least needed and the Europeans had a problem with that. Now, if Russia's invation of Ukraine has spurred activity to increase and bolster Nato, well...that is not going to be cheap and the US will not foot the bill especially now that is playing catchup and the geo-economic and geo-political status quo is changing. My guess is, not many Europeans will be willing to pay this tall bill.
> 2) Then, if the EU is not willing to pay the Nato bill what relevance will Nato have? Europeans have come to like peace and will be keen to return to that state. Which is easier, pay for Nato or make peace with Russia? I am inclined to believe that there will be some who will opt for the latter.
> 3) If some Europeans decide to seek peace with Russia than what unity are we talking about in Nato? How will a disunited Europe be bound in Nato?
> 4) Germany would love to have this war end quickly so it can resume business with Russia. Its contributions to Ukraine are, honestly, lacklustre and for good reason. As I mentioned before, if Germany seeks peace with Russia then the rest of EU will follow.
> 
> This is what Putin senses and is gambling on. I am not rooting for him to win I am simply pointing out is strategy...his chess move. I dont know if this will pan out in the same way or not.
> 
> Russia does not want war with Nato, it will equally seek peace with EU once the Ukraine problem is dealt with. The US will have to choose its strategic competitor...is it Russia or China or both. It has resources to deal with only one.
> 
> That is why I belive the days of Nato are numbered and all this noise of re-engergising Nato and knee jerk reactions with sanctions are simply going to bite Europeans. It is too expensive to be in a cold war mentality.


I think the new guy Scholz doesn't quite understand this or Russia like Angela did. 

Today I heard a speech made by a German parliamentarian that also highlights that Ukraine essentially is of no principal interest for European countries.

The present situation is essentially US seeking to prove a point against Russia for some reason and Russia saying enough is enough.

Your assessment rhyms with this:





Putin at multiple occasions has passionately stated that the Russians in 90s had given everything up, bent over backwards and literally humiliated themselves in front of Russian and world population to integrate themselves into the emerging global market economy at the time. But they were constantly otherized and treated with arrogance. If US and EU had made Russia a partner. Instead of ignoring it and treating it as a vanquished nation. We wouldn't be at such a crucial cross roads today.

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## gambit

lamdacore said:


> The US has to have an enemy, a nemesis so it can always justify the need to maintain an expensive and large military.


This is a poorly thought out argument, which made it a bad argument.

The world is filled with ideas. Some are parallel. Some are contestant. An example would be when the US rebelled against the British Crown. The colonists have a different idea on how they should live. The Crown disagreed. They fought. The colonists won. Then the US came to be. But was the American colonists against the Crown the only contestant ideas at that time? Hardly.

Here is a list of 18th century conflicts that were about the same time as when the colonists fought against the Crown...



https://www.helion.co.uk/periods/18th-century.php



Today, despite a shared terrible past, the US-UK alliance is one of the world's strongest. The two modern countries have differences but not enough to go to war over. We can say that the US-UK are parallel ideas. The point here is that the US does not 'need' any enemy or nemesis because as long as someone else have a different idea on how to live and does not like the American way, there is going to be conflict. Ideas needs the human agency to survive and propagate. Whenever we encounter a different idea, we naturally recoil. It is a protective move. If I do not protect what I have, I will be changing my mind with every new idea I meet. So I have to initially reject what I just found. Then if I chose to examine the new idea, I will do so, and if I find the new idea attractive, I will change my mind. That is how we all want the world to work.

But not everyone is patient enough to allow others to change their minds, so they resort to conflict, which naturally make me resistant to change my mind. Convince me, not force. If I am powerful enough to resist force, that is your problem, not mine. Do not blame me for taking your believers if they happened to find my idea more attractive than yours. That attraction was why East Germans jumped The Wall or Cubans risked shark infested waters to float to the US. But we do not see West Germans jumped The Wall or Americans floated to Cuba, do we?

Regarding to what is happening today. Poutine have been in power in Russia since 2000. That is 22 yrs of preserving the Russia idea. But why? In those 22 yrs, Poutine got wealthier and wealthier while the Russians got nowhere. Poutine preserved, not improved. If Poutine had improved the Russia idea, maybe Ukraine would have petitioned Russia to share in that idea. Instead, Ukraine looked westward and Poutine got mad because this beautiful Ukrainian girl looked at another man. If you do not improve your house, why should she stay? If you do not improve your body, why should she make love to you? Have you looked at all the critical social and economic statistics for Russia lately? They sucks, and anyone would say that kindly.

The US do not need to 'have an enemy'. They always find US so we have to be ready to defend the America idea. You are free to create your own idea, but do not b!tch if your citizens starts eyeballing US.

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## Zibago

jamahir said:


> You have changed. Neither are you posting in the 'Pakistani models and actresses' thread anymore nor are you supporting Russia in its goal of de-Nazifying Ukraine and preventing NATO from installing nuclear missiles there nor are you supporting the Aurat March in Pakistan. When did you become a mullah ?


Lack of time even now I have multiple files begging for my attention on my table
I just comment on the political stuff now as commenting on that thread requires more thorough research to put it mildly 😏

As for Russian or Ukranian goals Russia is using the same nature excuses US did to invade Iraq so I can't support it however Ukraine has also been horrible to its Russian citizens so its a bloody mess with both sides having a shady past

As for aurat march the leaders of that movement are just racist champagne socialists who have child slaves at home and they complain about women rights on road

That march is just a charba of anti Trump women march 

I am just going to ignore it

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## dBSPL

33 people killed in a missile strike in Chernihiv, yesterday.


Spoiler: adult content





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499455753282899974

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Zibago

dBSPL said:


> List of embargoes applied to Russia on consumer market(firms) and social(organisations):
> (Pay attention to digital services and be careful not to be stuck with these apps/services.)
> 
> Apple Pay - full block
> Apple - full exit from the market
> Adidas - refusal to work with the national football team
> Audi - not available anymore
> AMD - banned the supply of microchips and soon the supply of video cards will be banned
> Amazon - blocked all retail sales
> Adobe - fully blocked
> British Petrolium - their shares left Rosneft
> BBC - cancellation of broadcast licenses
> BMW - closes factories, blocks materials
> Bolt - market exit
> Boeing - exit from the market
> Chevrolet - not available
> Cannes Festival - block Russian delegation
> Cadillac - not available
> Carlsberg - export restriction
> Cex Io - crypto platform bans ru users
> Cinema 4D - application not working
> Coca Cola - exit from the market
> Danone exits the market with its subsidiary Prostokvashino
> Disney - cancel all movies
> Dell - exit
> Dropbox - will stop working in the country in a few days
> DHL - exit from the market
> Eurovision - disqualification
> Ericsson - exit the market
> Exxon Mobil recalls all experts of Russian oil companies
> Blocking all balances on Etsy - ru accounts
> Facebook - Russian media account ban
> FedEx - a complete ban on deliveries
> Formula 1 - cancellation of the tournament in Sochi
> Ford - closing all stores
> FIFA - disqualification of the national team for the World Cup and prohibition of holding any international matches in the Russian Federation
> Google Pay - partial blocking
> Google Maps - blocked information for Russia
> General Motors - suspends exports
> HP - import ban
> Harley Davidson - cut supplies
> Instagram - blocking propaganda
> Intel - microchip supply ban
> Jaguar - out of the market
> Jooble - removed the service and made a statement
> KUNA - exit from the market
> Lenovo - exit from market
> LinkedIn - preparing for a full departure from the country
> MOK - cancellation of all competitions
> Mastercard - suspension of card production, closure of several banks
> Maersk - stop deliveries to / from Russia - farewell equipment with Ali express and ASOS
> Mercedes - outside the country
> Megogo - deleted all Russian movies
> Metro - layoffs of 10 thousand employees
> Mitsubishi - dismissal of 141 service center employees
> Microsoft Office - a wide variety of measures are discussed
> Mobile World Congress - denial of accreditation for a delegation from the Russian Federation
> NFT - currency blocks of users of the Russian Federation and the Republic of Belarus, the transfer of their money to Ukraine
> NHL - full block for players from Russia
> Netflix - block for Russian subscriptions, stop production of Russian TV series
> Nike - close all stores
> Nintendo - ban on buying in rubles
> Nestle closes all 6 factories in Russia
> OnlyFans - shutdown in the country
> Paysera - blocking
> PayPal - freezing accounts for withdrawals
> Paramount - movie distribution block
> Parimatch - franchise withdrawn
> Play Station - payment could not be completed
> Pornhub - ban on access to content
> Porsche - Exit from Russia
> Renault - exit from the market
> Samsung payment - service blocking
> Snapchat - exited the app in Russia and Belarus
> Scania - exit from the Russian Federation
> SpaceX - delivery of Starlink to Ukraine
> Shell - termination of contract with Gazprom
> Spotify - unable to pay for subscription
> Sony - movie distribution block
> Twitter - You cannot open an account for citizens of the Russian Federation
> TikTok - massive ban of aggressive contents and propaganda
> Toyota - layoffs of 2,600 employees
> UEFA - St. Petersburg, the ban on participation of all clubs in the Champions League and Champions League, termination of the contract with the general sponsor Gazprom
> UPS - a complete ban on deliveries
> Visa - blocking of banks under sanctions
> Volvo - withdraw from the Russian Federation
> Yandex - exclusion of company shares from quotes on the NY stock exchange
> YouTube - block hundreds of RF channels and their monetization
> Warner Bros cancels all movie distribution
> Webmoney - prohibition of transactions
> Volkswagen - going out of the country
> Zoom - revocation of software development licenses


Oh no even pornhub 😡

Reactions: Haha Haha:
7 | Wow Wow:
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## Ali_Baba

dBSPL said:


> List of embargoes applied to Russia on consumer market(firms) and social(organisations):
> (Pay attention to digital services and be careful not to be stuck with these apps/services.)
> 
> Apple Pay - full block
> Apple - full exit from the market
> Adidas - refusal to work with the national football team
> Audi - not available anymore
> AMD - banned the supply of microchips and soon the supply of video cards will be banned
> Amazon - blocked all retail sales
> Adobe - fully blocked
> British Petrolium - their shares left Rosneft
> BBC - cancellation of broadcast licenses
> BMW - closes factories, blocks materials
> Bolt - market exit
> Boeing - exit from the market
> Chevrolet - not available
> Cannes Festival - block Russian delegation
> Cadillac - not available
> Carlsberg - export restriction
> Cex Io - crypto platform bans ru users
> Cinema 4D - application not working
> Coca Cola - exit from the market
> Danone exits the market with its subsidiary Prostokvashino
> Disney - cancel all movies
> Dell - exit
> Dropbox - will stop working in the country in a few days
> DHL - exit from the market
> Eurovision - disqualification
> Ericsson - exit the market
> Exxon Mobil recalls all experts of Russian oil companies
> Blocking all balances on Etsy - ru accounts
> Facebook - Russian media account ban
> FedEx - a complete ban on deliveries
> Formula 1 - cancellation of the tournament in Sochi
> Ford - closing all stores
> FIFA - disqualification of the national team for the World Cup and prohibition of holding any international matches in the Russian Federation
> Google Pay - partial blocking
> Google Maps - blocked information for Russia
> General Motors - suspends exports
> HP - import ban
> Harley Davidson - cut supplies
> Instagram - blocking propaganda
> Intel - microchip supply ban
> Jaguar - out of the market
> Jooble - removed the service and made a statement
> KUNA - exit from the market
> Lenovo - exit from market
> LinkedIn - preparing for a full departure from the country
> MOK - cancellation of all competitions
> Mastercard - suspension of card production, closure of several banks
> Maersk - stop deliveries to / from Russia - farewell equipment with Ali express and ASOS
> Mercedes - outside the country
> Megogo - deleted all Russian movies
> Metro - layoffs of 10 thousand employees
> Mitsubishi - dismissal of 141 service center employees
> Microsoft Office - a wide variety of measures are discussed
> Mobile World Congress - denial of accreditation for a delegation from the Russian Federation
> NFT - currency blocks of users of the Russian Federation and the Republic of Belarus, the transfer of their money to Ukraine
> NHL - full block for players from Russia
> Netflix - block for Russian subscriptions, stop production of Russian TV series
> Nike - close all stores
> Nintendo - ban on buying in rubles
> Nestle closes all 6 factories in Russia
> OnlyFans - shutdown in the country
> Paysera - blocking
> PayPal - freezing accounts for withdrawals
> Paramount - movie distribution block
> Parimatch - franchise withdrawn
> Play Station - payment could not be completed
> Pornhub - ban on access to content
> Porsche - Exit from Russia
> Renault - exit from the market
> Samsung payment - service blocking
> Snapchat - exited the app in Russia and Belarus
> Scania - exit from the Russian Federation
> SpaceX - delivery of Starlink to Ukraine
> Shell - termination of contract with Gazprom
> Spotify - unable to pay for subscription
> Sony - movie distribution block
> Twitter - You cannot open an account for citizens of the Russian Federation
> TikTok - massive ban of aggressive contents and propaganda
> Toyota - layoffs of 2,600 employees
> UEFA - St. Petersburg, the ban on participation of all clubs in the Champions League and Champions League, termination of the contract with the general sponsor Gazprom
> UPS - a complete ban on deliveries
> Visa - blocking of banks under sanctions
> Volvo - withdraw from the Russian Federation
> Yandex - exclusion of company shares from quotes on the NY stock exchange
> YouTube - block hundreds of RF channels and their monetization
> Warner Bros cancels all movie distribution
> Webmoney - prohibition of transactions
> Volkswagen - going out of the country
> Zoom - revocation of software development licenses



Suprised(not) that Airbus have not pulled out of Russia !!!


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## Basel

Is this true?


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## dBSPL

Zibago said:


> Oh no even pornhub 😡


Frankly, I did not make any edits in the content. Yes, there are some adult content related services as well. However, according to the general picture, they also aim to affect some of service sectors in Russia.

By the way, I hope most of these services are banned for my country as well. Because when we try to prevent/block it, they cry for internet , media freedom.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499675600252018695


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## Trango Towers

Zibago said:


> Both Russia and Ukraine are on good terms with Pakistan
> As a Pakistani this conflict doesn't suit us
> The concerns of both countries is of no value to us and are issues they should resolve


Agreed war is bad and we have relations with both. Pakistan taking a neutral stance is good. You asked us about our positions. My personal position would not be the same as if I was the leader of Pakistan. 
White people say one thing and do another. Learn baby learn. This is not an honest world brother ... sadly 😥


----------



## TheNoob

dBSPL said:


> Frankly, I did not make any edits in the content. Yes, there are some adult content related services as well. However, according to the general picture, they also aim to affect some of service sectors in Russia.
> 
> By the way, I hope most of these services are banned for my country as well. Because when we try to prevent/block it, they cry for internet , media freedom.



out of them all, I think only google maps is the one thing that'll affect people the most. lol

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## Trango Towers

Zibago said:


> Oh no even pornhub 😡


Over erection (oops typo) to the situation IMHO 😬

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499676829719932935

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499676545991983105


dBSPL said:


> List of embargoes applied to Russia on consumer market(firms) and social(organisations):
> (Pay attention to digital services and be careful not to be stuck with these apps/services.)
> 
> Apple Pay - full block
> Apple - full exit from the market
> Adidas - refusal to work with the national football team
> Audi - not available anymore
> AMD - banned the supply of microchips and soon the supply of video cards will be banned
> Amazon - blocked all retail sales
> Adobe - fully blocked
> British Petrolium - their shares left Rosneft
> BBC - cancellation of broadcast licenses
> BMW - closes factories, blocks materials
> Bolt - market exit
> Boeing - exit from the market
> Chevrolet - not available
> Cannes Festival - block Russian delegation
> Cadillac - not available
> Carlsberg - export restriction
> Cex Io - crypto platform bans ru users
> Cinema 4D - application not working
> Coca Cola - exit from the market
> Danone exits the market with its subsidiary Prostokvashino
> Disney - cancel all movies
> Dell - exit
> Dropbox - will stop working in the country in a few days
> DHL - exit from the market
> Eurovision - disqualification
> Ericsson - exit the market
> Exxon Mobil recalls all experts of Russian oil companies
> Blocking all balances on Etsy - ru accounts
> Facebook - Russian media account ban
> FedEx - a complete ban on deliveries
> Formula 1 - cancellation of the tournament in Sochi
> Ford - closing all stores
> FIFA - disqualification of the national team for the World Cup and prohibition of holding any international matches in the Russian Federation
> Google Pay - partial blocking
> Google Maps - blocked information for Russia
> General Motors - suspends exports
> HP - import ban
> Harley Davidson - cut supplies
> Instagram - blocking propaganda
> Intel - microchip supply ban
> Jaguar - out of the market
> Jooble - removed the service and made a statement
> KUNA - exit from the market
> Lenovo - exit from market
> LinkedIn - preparing for a full departure from the country
> MOK - cancellation of all competitions
> Mastercard - suspension of card production, closure of several banks
> Maersk - stop deliveries to / from Russia - farewell equipment with Ali express and ASOS
> Mercedes - outside the country
> Megogo - deleted all Russian movies
> Metro - layoffs of 10 thousand employees
> Mitsubishi - dismissal of 141 service center employees
> Microsoft Office - a wide variety of measures are discussed
> Mobile World Congress - denial of accreditation for a delegation from the Russian Federation
> NFT - currency blocks of users of the Russian Federation and the Republic of Belarus, the transfer of their money to Ukraine
> NHL - full block for players from Russia
> Netflix - block for Russian subscriptions, stop production of Russian TV series
> Nike - close all stores
> Nintendo - ban on buying in rubles
> Nestle closes all 6 factories in Russia
> OnlyFans - shutdown in the country
> Paysera - blocking
> PayPal - freezing accounts for withdrawals
> Paramount - movie distribution block
> Parimatch - franchise withdrawn
> Play Station - payment could not be completed
> Pornhub - ban on access to content
> Porsche - Exit from Russia
> Renault - exit from the market
> Samsung payment - service blocking
> Snapchat - exited the app in Russia and Belarus
> Scania - exit from the Russian Federation
> SpaceX - delivery of Starlink to Ukraine
> Shell - termination of contract with Gazprom
> Spotify - unable to pay for subscription
> Sony - movie distribution block
> Twitter - You cannot open an account for citizens of the Russian Federation
> TikTok - massive ban of aggressive contents and propaganda
> Toyota - layoffs of 2,600 employees
> UEFA - St. Petersburg, the ban on participation of all clubs in the Champions League and Champions League, termination of the contract with the general sponsor Gazprom
> UPS - a complete ban on deliveries
> Visa - blocking of banks under sanctions
> Volvo - withdraw from the Russian Federation
> Yandex - exclusion of company shares from quotes on the NY stock exchange
> YouTube - block hundreds of RF channels and their monetization
> Warner Bros cancels all movie distribution
> Webmoney - prohibition of transactions
> Volkswagen - going out of the country
> Zoom - revocation of software development licenses




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499356728453967882

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499677750998753284

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## LeGenD

jhungary said:


> Not to mention Russia scare of NATO so bad that they sold S-400 missile system to Turkey....


Good point. Russia has problems with NATO but is willing to sell its advanced military hardware to a NATO member state as well? Strange.



Enigma SIG said:


> https://www.rt.com/news/551148-napoleon-hitler-lavrov-interview/
> 
> 
> 
> _“The European Union has been shown its place. The Nord Stream 2 story has shown perfectly the real place that the EU has on the world stage,”_ Lavrov asserted.





https://www.oreanda.ru/en/tek/scholz-called-the-decision-to-stop-nord-stream-2-timely/article1414771/



EU will look towards Africa now.









African countries to take on German hydrogen production technology


As the EU member nation phases out coal and nuclear energy, its government is looking to H2. The German government has announced that it intends to transfer hy




www.hydrogenfuelnews.com













Ukraine crisis: Could Africa become Europe's next gas station?


Africa’s vast deposits of natural gas and oil have gained renewed international prominence as a shift in global markets away from Russia intensifies.




www.howwemadeitinafrica.com





This is why it is important for a moderate country to not overplay its cards. Russia overplayed its cards in Europe this time.

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## Dragons

Titanium100 said:


> creating a pull out date if these said countries become unstable via populism, far right extremism or unexpected war happens where an attack by Russia, China or Other elements occur.



A pull out will happen without a doubt otherwise it would be no brainer and as a matter fact there has occured pulled out in Ukraine now where KSA, UAE, Jordan, Qatar, Kuwait, Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria and Turkey have pulled their people out and it was only these who supported Russia or these who were neutral that didn't manage to pull out in time lmao the irony in that is hilarious..

Example Indians are being harassed and killed all around Ukraine and then there are the chinese still inside Ukraine and amongst them because their government didn't issue evacuation in time all tho their civilians aren't experiencing progroms on them unlike the Indians.

Pakistan is also another case of late evacuation mistake all tho Pakistan citizens didn't suffer any targettings because of good relations with Ukraine unlike others but still they are pulling out now slowly whereas Saudis, Turks, Algerians, Moroccans, Egyptians, Jordanians, Tunisians started to empty out Ukraine a week before the attack and jump on airplanes before the initial attack came..

But there will be an evacuation exodus out of the entire western world were the 3 things you mentioned to occur. Where a neo-nazi leaning element to overthrow some of the countries or an extremist far-right leaning neo-nazi element both would trigger an evacuation immediately and also a Russian attack which is currently if you ask me much more likelier then Neo-Nazi overthrowing the government institution of Western european hence a Russian + alliance assualt on Western europe is much more likelier to be the cause of the evacuation


----------



## ADIL SHERDIL

dBSPL said:


> ISIS has now commented on the Russia-Ukraine war. Warns Muslims against taking part alongside any camp, saying this is a "Crusader-Crusader war" that Muslims mustn't get invovled in.
> 
> ISIS condemns Chechens who took part in the conflict alongside Russia and also warns against Muslim scholars or influencers who call on Muslims to support or fight for Ukraine.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499366434803175425
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499638404102987776


only If ISIS is saying this then i m going to support chechans here. Seriously who has made them the spokesperson of Muslims. Why would anyone give rat *** what these scums says?

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## dBSPL

ADIL SHERDIL said:


> only If ISIS is saying this then i m going to support chechans here. Seriously who has made them the spokesperson of Muslims. Why would anyone give rat *** what these scums says?


Calm down, these terrorists are not representative of anything. Even lgbt rights were discussed within 600 pages. The terrorist organization ISIS is actively in a relationship/conflict with both the USA and Russia in Syria and Iraq. Therefore, it will not be too irrelevant to share their opinions on this issue. I think you've already decided what you want to believe. Why are you instrumentalizing Isis?


----------



## TheNoob

Dragons said:


> A pull out will happen without a doubt otherwise it would be no brainer and as a matter fact there has occured pulled out in Ukraine now where KSA, UAE, Jordan, Qatar, Kuwait, Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria and Turkey have pulled their people out and it was only these who supported Russia or these who were neutral that didn't manage to pull out in time lmao the irony in that is hilarious..
> 
> Example Indians are being harassed and killed all around Ukraine and then there are the chinese still inside Ukraine and amongst them because their government didn't issue evacuation in time all tho their civilians aren't experiencing progroms on them unlike the Indians.
> 
> Pakistan is also another case of late evacuation mistake all tho Pakistan citizens didn't suffer any targettings because of good relations with Ukraine unlike others but still they are pulling out now slowly whereas Saudis, Turks, Algerians, Moroccans, Egyptians, Jordanians, Tunisians started to empty out Ukraine a week before the attack and jump on airplanes before the initial attack came..
> 
> But there will be an evacuation exodus out of the entire western world were 3 the things you mentioned to occur.. Where a neo-nazi leaning element to overthrow some of the countries or an extremist far-right element both would trigger an evacuation and also a Russian attack which is currently if you ask me much more likelier then Neo-Nazi overthrowing the government institution of Western european hence a Russian + alliance assualt on Western europe is much more likelier to be the cause of the evacuation



I want to smoke what you're smoking right now.

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## jamahir

dBSPL said:


> ISIS has now commented on the Russia-Ukraine war. Warns Muslims against taking part alongside any camp, saying this is a "Crusader-Crusader war" that Muslims mustn't get invovled in.
> 
> ISIS condemns Chechens who took part in the conflict alongside Russia and also warns against Muslim scholars or influencers who call on Muslims to support or fight for Ukraine.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499366434803175425
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499638404102987776



 Crusaders are ISIS' masters the Western governments on whose behalf ISIS did a lot of atrocities including against Syrians including beheading 25 Syrian soldiers in front of the Palmyra ruins in 2015. Russia is not a Crusader. In fact I think it was in 2011 that Putin spoke out against the Western governments as being Crusaders who had launched regime-change operations against Muslim-majority Libya and Syria. Putin and Russia are friends of Muslims. It is unfortunate the some so-called Muslim leaders like Erdogan and the Gulfies are slaving for the Western Crusaders.



Zibago said:


> As for aurat march the leaders of that movement are just racist champagne socialists who have child slaves at home and they complain about women rights on road



How can you judge like that ? You are just succumbing to misogynist propagandists. 



Zibago said:


> That march is just a charba of anti Trump women march



What does "anti-Trump women" mean ?

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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> That was indeed a sad time, another legend taken far too soon.


Yeah, and I really think his family is cursed.....

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## sammuel

Piotr said:


> ​
> On 24 February, Russia launched a special military operation in Ukraine in response to calls from the Donbass republics to protect them from intensifying attacks by Ukrainian troops.



If the purpose was to help Donbass what are the Russians doing around Kiev and Odessa ? ? ?

~


----------



## newb3e

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499677750998753284


ohh the big boys are entering the war!!

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## Madni Bappa

gambit said:


> I think Poutine is afraid of assassination.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was this behavior noticed before the Ukraine invasion? I do not think this is about ego. Certainly powerful personalities have more than robust egos, but Poutine have never been known to be flamboyant about himself. Confident of his authority and power, yes. But not flamboyant. So *WHEN* did this staying afaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from his staff and advisers came? Russia's leaders do have a history of unexplained disappearances, so am beginning to suspect that Poutine is on red alert about his own pot





gambit said:


> This is a poorly thought out argument, which made it a bad argument.
> 
> The world is filled with ideas. Some are parallel. Some are contestant. An example would be when the US rebelled against the British Crown. The colonists have a different idea on how they should live. The Crown disagreed. They fought. The colonists won. Then the US came to be. But was the American colonists against the Crown the only contestant ideas at that time? Hardly.
> 
> Here is a list of 18th century conflicts that were about the same time as when the colonists fought against the Crown...
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.helion.co.uk/periods/18th-century.php
> 
> 
> 
> Today, despite a shared terrible past, the US-UK alliance is one of the world's strongest. The two modern countries have differences but not enough to go to war over. We can say that the US-UK are parallel ideas. The point here is that the US does not 'need' any enemy or nemesis because as long as someone else have a different idea on how to live and does not like the American way, there is going to be conflict. Ideas needs the human agency to survive and propagate. Whenever we encounter a different idea, we naturally recoil. It is a protective move. If I do not protect what I have, I will be changing my mind with every new idea I meet. So I have to initially reject what I just found. Then if I chose to examine the new idea, I will do so, and if I find the new idea attractive, I will change my mind. That is how we all want the world to work.
> 
> But not everyone is patient enough to allow others to change their minds, so they resort to conflict, which naturally make me resistant to change my mind. Convince me, not force. If I am powerful enough to resist force, that is your problem, not mine. Do not blame me for taking your believers if they happened to find my idea more attractive than yours. That attraction was why East Germans jumped The Wall or Cubans risked shark infested waters to float to the US. But we do not see West Germans jumped The Wall or Americans floated to Cuba, do we?
> 
> Regarding to what is happening today. Poutine have been in power in Russia since 2000. That is 22 yrs of preserving the Russia idea. But why? In those 22 yrs, Poutine got wealthier and wealthier while the Russians got nowhere. Poutine preserved, not improved. If Poutine had improved the Russia idea, maybe Ukraine would have petitioned Russia to share in that idea. Instead, Ukraine looked westward and Poutine got mad because this beautiful Ukrainian girl looked at another man. If you do not improve your house, why should she stay? If you do not improve your body, why should she make love to you? Have you looked at all the critical social and economic statistics for Russia lately? They sucks, and anyone would say that kindly.
> 
> The US do not need to 'have an enemy'. They always find US so we have to be ready to defend the America idea. You are free to create your own idea, but do not b!tch if your citizens starts eyeballing US.


C'mon your history is filled with wild witch hunts.
Native Americans
British
French
Canadians
Native Americans
Black Slaves
Southern White Slave owning States
Spanish American Wars
Philippines

Also you never answered why almost every war going back to Spanish American war conveniently has USN war ship or submarine that gets attacked and war ensues?

When this didn't work. You used the "white man's burden" dogma.

Other than this most of the wars I listed had some sort of lie to manufacture war. The American war of Independence and the civil war being slight exceptions.

Texas/US Mexican war was also manufactured on lies. Lie that basically alleged the Mexicans came into Texas and attacked American whities. While the American whities had set up a fiefdom on Texas which was Mexican territory. Kinda like Jewish settlers in Falastine(Palestine).

You are experts at manufacturing war based on lies. If you study something more deeper and meaningful other than sophomore year common core U.S history. That portrays everything as a bed of roses.

Your true nature is exposed by what you did to Native Americans. And what the British did to every Native nation to wherever they went "civilizing" the people.

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## Dragons

TheNoob said:


> I want to smoke what you're smoking right now.



I don't see what I said that is wrong here. There is always an evacuation during disaster events.. If Russia was to attack Western Europe. The Pakistani government will conduct an evacuation. What is there to not understand here


----------



## Madni Bappa

gambit said:


> This is a poorly thought out argument, which made it a bad argument.
> 
> The world is filled with ideas. Some are parallel. Some are contestant. An example would be when the US rebelled against the British Crown. The colonists have a different idea on how they should live. The Crown disagreed. They fought. The colonists won. Then the US came to be. But was the American colonists against the Crown the only contestant ideas at that time? Hardly.
> 
> Here is a list of 18th century conflicts that were about the same time as when the colonists fought against the Crown...
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.helion.co.uk/periods/18th-century.php
> 
> 
> 
> Today, despite a shared terrible past, the US-UK alliance is one of the world's strongest. The two modern countries have differences but not enough to go to war over. We can say that the US-UK are parallel ideas. The point here is that the US does not 'need' any enemy or nemesis because as long as someone else have a different idea on how to live and does not like the American way, there is going to be conflict. Ideas needs the human agency to survive and propagate. Whenever we encounter a different idea, we naturally recoil. It is a protective move. If I do not protect what I have, I will be changing my mind with every new idea I meet. So I have to initially reject what I just found. Then if I chose to examine the new idea, I will do so, and if I find the new idea attractive, I will change my mind. That is how we all want the world to work.
> 
> But not everyone is patient enough to allow others to change their minds, so they resort to conflict, which naturally make me resistant to change my mind. Convince me, not force. If I am powerful enough to resist force, that is your problem, not mine. Do not blame me for taking your believers if they happened to find my idea more attractive than yours. That attraction was why East Germans jumped The Wall or Cubans risked shark infested waters to float to the US. But we do not see West Germans jumped The Wall or Americans floated to Cuba, do we?
> 
> Regarding to what is happening today. Poutine have been in power in Russia since 2000. That is 22 yrs of preserving the Russia idea. But why? In those 22 yrs, Poutine got wealthier and wealthier while the Russians got nowhere. Poutine preserved, not improved. If Poutine had improved the Russia idea, maybe Ukraine would have petitioned Russia to share in that idea. Instead, Ukraine looked westward and Poutine got mad because this beautiful Ukrainian girl looked at another man. If you do not improve your house, why should she stay? If you do not improve your body, why should she make love to you? Have you looked at all the critical social and economic statistics for Russia lately? They sucks, and anyone would say that kindly.
> 
> The US do not need to 'have an enemy'. They always find US so we have to be ready to defend the America idea. You are free to create your own idea, but do not b!tch if your citizens starts eyeballing US.


Also your post is epitome of whataboutism. And baat ko ghumana

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## jhungary

Zibago said:


> So how will Americans treat Saudi demand of supporting them without conditions in Yemen and hushing up on criticism of MBS?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saudi crown prince plays the oil card in quest for U.S. recognition
> 
> 
> Saudi Arabia's crown prince says he simply doesn't care whether Joe Biden misunderstands him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine crisis will have implications for both Yemen and Syria and there are so many directions where this could go


Saudi is holding out, because high oil price is good for them (well, that's a given) but technical US can unilaterally increase supply to quench the demand, but they will need to re-tapping the massive US shale oil and gas, which is political suicide..

Notice that this is what Trump had done during 2018 crisis when Iran shut off oil supply, we have a price hike and US ramp up production in shale, and leading to Saudi ramping up as well. But if this administration do what Trump did 4 years ago, that's political suicide...


----------



## ADIL SHERDIL

dBSPL said:


> Calm down, these terrorists are not representative of anything. Even lgbt rights were discussed within 600 pages. The terrorist organization ISIS is actively in a relationship/conflict with both the USA and Russia in Syria and Iraq. Therefore, it will not be too irrelevant to share their opinions on this issue. I think you've already decided what you want to believe. Why are you instrumentalizing Isis?


Nothing was decided by me it was decided by the western. If any one who isnt blonde with blue eyes dies then its a normal way of life but when European dies then its a tragedy. ISIS has met its demise.I am just amused how people are vocal for Europeans but when it comes to others no one can hear their voice.

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## NotSure

NotSure said:


>

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499681524832215043


----------



## sammuel

LeGenD said:


> Good point. Russia has problems with NATO but is willing to sell its advanced military hardware to a NATO member state as well? Strange.



First it was because of NATO , than it was to help Donbass , now it is to fight Nazis ( left there from WW2 i guess ).

All excuses .

~

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## Madni Bappa

dBSPL said:


> List of embargoes applied to Russia on consumer market(firms) and social(organisations):
> (Pay attention to digital services and be careful not to be stuck with these apps/services.)
> 
> Apple Pay - full block
> Apple - full exit from the market
> Adidas - refusal to work with the national football team
> Audi - not available anymore
> AMD - banned the supply of microchips and soon the supply of video cards will be banned
> Amazon - blocked all retail sales
> Adobe - fully blocked
> British Petrolium - their shares left Rosneft
> BBC - cancellation of broadcast licenses
> BMW - closes factories, blocks materials
> Bolt - market exit
> Boeing - exit from the market
> Chevrolet - not available
> Cannes Festival - block Russian delegation
> Cadillac - not available
> Carlsberg - export restriction
> Cex Io - crypto platform bans ru users
> Cinema 4D - application not working
> Coca Cola - exit from the market
> Danone exits the market with its subsidiary Prostokvashino
> Disney - cancel all movies
> Dell - exit
> Dropbox - will stop working in the country in a few days
> DHL - exit from the market
> Eurovision - disqualification
> Ericsson - exit the market
> Exxon Mobil recalls all experts of Russian oil companies
> Blocking all balances on Etsy - ru accounts
> Facebook - Russian media account ban
> FedEx - a complete ban on deliveries
> Formula 1 - cancellation of the tournament in Sochi
> Ford - closing all stores
> FIFA - disqualification of the national team for the World Cup and prohibition of holding any international matches in the Russian Federation
> Google Pay - partial blocking
> Google Maps - blocked information for Russia
> General Motors - suspends exports
> HP - import ban
> Harley Davidson - cut supplies
> Instagram - blocking propaganda
> Intel - microchip supply ban
> Jaguar - out of the market
> Jooble - removed the service and made a statement
> KUNA - exit from the market
> Lenovo - exit from market
> LinkedIn - preparing for a full departure from the country
> MOK - cancellation of all competitions
> Mastercard - suspension of card production, closure of several banks
> Maersk - stop deliveries to / from Russia - farewell equipment with Ali express and ASOS
> Mercedes - outside the country
> Megogo - deleted all Russian movies
> Metro - layoffs of 10 thousand employees
> Mitsubishi - dismissal of 141 service center employees
> Microsoft Office - a wide variety of measures are discussed
> Mobile World Congress - denial of accreditation for a delegation from the Russian Federation
> NFT - currency blocks of users of the Russian Federation and the Republic of Belarus, the transfer of their money to Ukraine
> NHL - full block for players from Russia
> Netflix - block for Russian subscriptions, stop production of Russian TV series
> Nike - close all stores
> Nintendo - ban on buying in rubles
> Nestle closes all 6 factories in Russia
> OnlyFans - shutdown in the country
> Paysera - blocking
> PayPal - freezing accounts for withdrawals
> Paramount - movie distribution block
> Parimatch - franchise withdrawn
> Play Station - payment could not be completed
> Pornhub - ban on access to content
> Porsche - Exit from Russia
> Renault - exit from the market
> Samsung payment - service blocking
> Snapchat - exited the app in Russia and Belarus
> Scania - exit from the Russian Federation
> SpaceX - delivery of Starlink to Ukraine
> Shell - termination of contract with Gazprom
> Spotify - unable to pay for subscription
> Sony - movie distribution block
> Twitter - You cannot open an account for citizens of the Russian Federation
> TikTok - massive ban of aggressive contents and propaganda
> Toyota - layoffs of 2,600 employees
> UEFA - St. Petersburg, the ban on participation of all clubs in the Champions League and Champions League, termination of the contract with the general sponsor Gazprom
> UPS - a complete ban on deliveries
> Visa - blocking of banks under sanctions
> Volvo - withdraw from the Russian Federation
> Yandex - exclusion of company shares from quotes on the NY stock exchange
> YouTube - block hundreds of RF channels and their monetization
> Warner Bros cancels all movie distribution
> Webmoney - prohibition of transactions
> Volkswagen - going out of the country
> Zoom - revocation of software development licenses


Putin really must have pissed off the Israelis when he made a call to them while they were attacking Al Aqsa. 

I will say again somewhere behind the scenes there is Jewish involvement. Not just because of Zelensky.

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## jhungary

LeGenD said:


> Good point. Russia has problems with NATO but is willing to sell its advanced military hardware to a NATO member state as well? Strange.


Well, not strange, this is a ploy, because normal Russia fear of NATO encroachment, that's the card Putin play to gain public support, NATO have not been in any hostility with Russia directly. But if you read Putin speech (Can't listen to him) you will have a picture on your mind that NATO tank is in Ukraine and those tank are using on the Eastern separatist region. 

But if you look at what Russia do and what NATO did, you know it's one giant pile of..... If NATO want to deploy missile and threaten Russia, they don't really need Ukraine, Latvia is as close as Ukraine, and is already a NATO country. Which means if NATO missile threat is a problem for Russia, the would stack against Latvia border and threaten to invade Latvia if there are hypothetical missile deployed there. Which make why NATO would want Ukraine did not make sense. because of all the country Russia could have threaten anyone next to their border, 4 of them EU, 2 of them NATO, 1 is Belarus, and the other is Ukraine, Putin go after the only non-NATO country for the supposed threat of NATO...

In hindsight tho, they probably should have accept Ukraine back in 2008 when Ukraine applies, and that's probably would avoid this war...


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499682901973102592


----------



## That Guy

Microsoft said:


> Please do explain why oil can be replaced by another source but no country is willing to do it.


Do you not understand the difference between a country and a company?


----------



## Titanium100

Madni Bappa said:


> I will say again somewhere behind the scenes there is Jewish involvement. Not just because of Zelensky.



No brother.

The Jewish have no involvement in it besides alot of people seems to misunderstand things here regarding the jews. In reality the jews are merely servants of the west aka previously known as Rome. The Jewish are not a free entity and used with a tight-rope and I am speaking from ground reality bro not conspiracy theories.

The reason for the reaction is because the western world is under attack right now.. Hence this pains them greatly and this is their war and they may not be able to take on Putin militairly but they will approach from other areas but make no mistake the western world is under attack. Even if Israeli cities were being destroyed they wouldn't react as they are reacting to Ukraine because they consider it part of the west and they are directly under attack


----------



## TheNoob

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499682901973102592



Old, it's from the day 1 of attack.


----------



## Vergennes

Russian VDV...



Spoiler: Graphic content


----------



## TheNoob

Vergennes said:


> Russian VDV...
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic content
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 820704
> 
> View attachment 820703
> 
> View attachment 820702



RIP,
I am not sure how many times they're going to continue showing this same squad on media.

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## Dragons

Titanium100 said:


> No brother.
> 
> The Jewish have no involvement in it besides alot of people seems to misunderstand things here regarding the jews. In reality the jews are merely servants of the west aka previously known as Rome. The Jewish are not a free entity and used with a tight-rope



This is true and nobody knows the west more then we do as we have basically occupied it for centuries and intermingled with them hence we understand who is who and where.. From Iberia, France to Switzerland and to majority of Eastern Europe including Russia.

There is an West and East.. Russia represents the Eastern ortodox and Byzantine empire because they split once as they outgrow each other and became two rivaling entities.

They have even elected Jesus as God in Turkey in the Council of Nicaea.. All of the Mediterranean use to be Eastern Ortodox territory for centuries Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya including Syria, Lebanon and Palestine before the arrival of Muhammad in 610 where he meet Jabril in that cave one night in August 10th of that same year this one single night changed the geopolitics of the whole world


----------



## Song Hong

AN225 was destroyed -- by Ukies according to Russian.


----------



## Enigma SIG

TheNoob said:


> Old, it's from the day 1 of attack.


People finding opportunity for everything. Best time to farm for Reddit Karma. Pro Ukraine posts are getting likes in the 10's of thousands.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499686540196429830captured Russian soldiers


----------



## TheNoob

Enigma SIG said:


> People finding opportunity for everything. Best time to farm for Reddit Karma. Pro Ukraine posts are getting likes in the 10's of thousands.



Despicable.

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## Enigma SIG

Ich said:


> *The greatest shit what happend to germany since WW2!*



Greatest Shit that has happened, so far.

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## jamahir

gambit said:


> That attraction was why East Germans jumped The Wall or Cubans risked shark infested waters to float to the US. But we do not see West Germans jumped The Wall or Americans floated to Cuba, do we?



Give the choice to this homeless American person if he wants to live in Cuba or North Korea or pre-2011 Libya where housing was / is provided by the system or healthcare and education was / is free and water was an untaxable human right and such things :





Those Cubans who fled Cuba to USA, they are tolerated by the American establishment even if they indulge in regular crimes because they can be used by CIA to sabotage and subvert Cuba.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499676256220164098

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## Iñigo

This is the third time the West has brought chaos and destruction to the heart of Russia.

And

This is the third time that the Anglo-Empire has defeated Germany.


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## newb3e

Enigma SIG said:


> People finding opportunity for everything. Best time to farm for Reddit Karma. Pro Ukraine posts are getting likes in the 10's of thousands.


shit i have -ve karma for calling out whities for their hypocricy!

i am PRO UKR NOW!!!

zilenzky mahraj ki jaiiii!

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## Enigma SIG

newb3e said:


> shit i have -ve karma for calling out whities for their hypocricy!
> 
> i am PRO UKR NOW!!!
> 
> zilenzky mahraj ki jaiiii!


just post pro ukraine propaganda, you'll find lots of karma

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## newb3e

Enigma SIG said:


> just post pro ukraine propaganda, you'll find lots of karma


i want karma so i can shitpost on r/indiaspeaks

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## Vergennes

jamahir said:


> NATO / Nazi propaganda.



Just judging at your choice of words I know debate will be futile,it'll be like talking to a wall. 

VDV BMD4M






The Ukrainians ahead of anyone in terms of waste recycling

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## jamahir

Vergennes said:


> Just judging at your choice of words I know debate will be futile,it'll be like talking to a wall.



As if you have been an impartial poster  Why do you think I kept tagging you ? And look at your own choice of words :


> The Ukrainians ahead of anyone in terms of waste recycling



Wonderful. Some mod in his infinite wisdom decided that my question to @Vergennes was "Unproductive" and deleted that post.

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## Vergennes

The Ukrainian flag is flying again in Vorzel in the vincinity of Kyiv... not only the Ukrainians are well defending,they are on the offensive in certain areas...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499638901123735556


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## Iñigo

The nostalgics of the 14th Waffen SS in the Ukraine are a reality that cannot be named in the Western fantasy world.

And in the Western mental kindergarten it is also impossible to point out the obvious and evident: the most influential ethno-nationalist at the beginning of the last century was German and nowadays the most influential ethno-nationalist-fascism is Biblical-Israeli ethno-nationalist-fascism.

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## Song Hong



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## Titanium100

Vergennes said:


> Just judging at your choice of words I know debate will be futile,it'll be like talking to a wall.
> 
> VDV BMD4M
> 
> View attachment 820714
> 
> 
> The Ukrainians ahead of anyone in terms of waste recycling
> 
> View attachment 820715



I couldn't agree more that Indian is unreachable


----------



## jamahir

Titanium100 said:


> I couldn't agree more that Indian is unreachable



OK, Mister Fan of the "I"EA.


----------



## Titanium100

jamahir said:


> OK, Mister Fan of the "I"EA.



Your just irrational when it comes to understanding world politics and that nonsense you spewed..


----------



## jamahir

Titanium100 said:


> Your just irrational when it comes to understanding world politics and that nonsense you spewed..



I said what I had to about you. You can carry on making any excuse.


----------



## kingQamaR

Iñigo said:


> The nostalgics of the 14th Waffen SS in the Ukraine are a reality that cannot be named in the Western fantasy world.
> 
> And in the Western mental kindergarten it is also impossible to point out the obvious and evident: the most influential ethno-nationalist at the beginning of the last century was German and nowadays the most influential ethno-nationalist-fascism is Biblical-Israeli ethno-nationalist-fascism.



What kind of imbecile bombs a bloody nuclear power plant?


----------



## Zibago

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499676256220164098
> View attachment 820711


How did they shoot it down?


----------



## arjunk

A lot of military activity including AH64 attack heli over the UK, near Cambridge.

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## Ali_Baba

Iñigo said:


> This is the third time the West has brought chaos and destruction to the heart of Russia.
> 
> And
> 
> This is the third time that the Anglo-Empire has defeated Germany.



The Russians started this war !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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## jamahir

kingQamaR said:


> What kind of imbecile bombs a bloody nuclear power plant?



The Russians are being precise I think but what kind of imbecile fights against the Russians from within the power plant's area ? The Ukranian soldiers have done other such things like installing artillery in the grounds of schools and in front of apartment complexes and when the Russians responded the NATO-aligned media shouted "Look at the evil Ruskies bombing schools and residences !"


----------



## bobo6661

​https://europe-cities.com/2022/03/0...n-in-response-to-polands-support-for-ukraine/

In Russia, an initiative to demolish part of the museum complex in Katyn in response to Poland’s support for Ukraine​
Just try it ... We got so many soviet memorials here... Theres even one in my town i will go and help demolish it ...

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## reflecthofgeismar

sammuel said:


> I don't see Germans being arrested for protesting like in Russia . I don't see news site in Germany closed like they do in Russia , where the public is fed what Putin wants to feed them.
> 
> Seems you like to talk about " Nazis " a lot , seems like a Putin trend. ( sure he invaded Ukraine to fight Nazis , what bs )
> 
> But your avatar is that of a Nazi war criminal , which tells what you are all about :
> 
> *Albert Kesselring* (30 November 1885 – 16 July 1960) was a German _Generalfeldmarschall_ of the Luftwaffe during World War II who was subsequently convicted of war crimes.


Albert Kesselring was a good man, as most Germans back then.
Aks any NEUTRAL historian, even Jewish historians about him.
They will tell you the allies measure with double standards back then regarding German "war criminals".
I'm not the one who is telling the Israelis are war criminals on a large scale because the story behind all the things happen there since Israels creation are very complex, I suppose you would do the same before calling somebody war criminal instead of repeating the fixed view on some things.


----------



## newb3e

Zibago said:


> How did they shoot it down?


tweeper missile its very powerful!
ANA used it successfully and now UKR are using it!


----------



## Dragons

​


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## Vergennes

T90 captured by the Ukrainians

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## Dragons

... 

*Greek in Mariupol: “The fascist Ukrainians would kill me, they won't let us leave the city” *


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499708113238343682
@Foinikas


----------



## Titanium100

Dragons said:


> ​



Mariupol will become the battle of all battles


----------



## Dragons




----------



## Oom

Dragons said:


> ​


Bro why do you have that piece of shit pic as your Dp. I feel like puking every time I see it.


----------



## kingQamaR

jamahir said:


> The Russians are being precise I think but what kind of imbecile fights against the Russians from within the power plant's area ? The Ukranian soldiers have done other such things like installing artillery in the grounds of schools and in front of apartment complexes and when the Russians responded the NATO-aligned media shouted "Look at the evil Ruskies bombing schools and residences !"



As usual you sad loser you on here to see people suffer and die. I bet if I was to dug hard enough I probably discover Ukraine has insulted india for your cheering the war for Russia. On the nuclear power station, what imbecile army would let it fall in to enemies hands that provides power to its peoples most of the country. And also your imbecile Indian army shot down there own Air Force helicopter down in day time and your here giving us a running a commentary on Ukrainian tactics. unbelievable bot

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## Dragons

Oom said:


> Bro why do you have that piece of shits pic as your Dp. I feel like puking every time I see it.



Good question.. It is for trolling him.. As his a walking joke and a wanted man

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## Oom

Dragons said:


> Good question.. It is for trolling him.. As his a walking joke and a wanted man


He is irrelevant now. That’s worse that being wanted.

He ran away like a coward.


----------



## PakAlp

Update 04/03/2022


----------



## Type59

Ukrainians will soon run low on ammunition for large scale combat. NATO and allies are only resupplying certain weapons, but neglecting artillery and small arms. 








Russian drone in action, they should have ordered Chinese systems. Their military needs to pump out more drones, especially surveillance ones. These surveillance drones would be used for directing artillery.

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## Foinikas

Dragons said:


> ...
> 
> *Greek in Mariupol: “The fascist Ukrainians would kill me, they won't let us leave the city” *
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499708113238343682
> @Foinikas


The TV channels here have "connection" problems when greeks from there try to talk about Ukrainians or neo-nazis killing them in Mariupol. I saw this on Facebook the other day and saved it:







It says: "On SKAI,connection problems stopped the interview. On OPEN,the line went down when a woman was saying the Azov nazis are killing us. On ALPHA,the connection was lost again when a Greek from Donbass accused the the nazis. Goebells had worthy students."

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## CAPRICORN-88

A humanitarian Corrider for Kiev or Green buses as they are called in Syria has been just agreed between Russia and Ukraine in Belarus. 

To allow the civilian population of Kiev to leave and aids to be delivered.

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## Enigma SIG

PakAlp said:


> Update 04/03/2022
> View attachment 820726


So many advancing lines that are probably without logistic support or enough personnel. Which is why their convoys are getting hit hard.


----------



## That Guy

Type59 said:


> Ukrainians will soon run low on ammunition for large scale combat. NATO and allies are only resupplying certain weapons, but neglecting artillery and small arms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian drone in action, they should have ordered Chinese systems. Their military needs to pump out more drones, especially surveillance ones. These surveillance drones would be used for directing artillery.


LOL, nah.

The Russians are resupplying the Ukrainians just fine, no need for NATO to send ammo to them.

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## Dragons

Foinikas said:


> The TV channels here have "connection" problems when greeks from there try to talk about Ukrainians or neo-nazis killing them in Mariupol. I saw this on Facebook the other day and saved it:
> 
> View attachment 820727
> 
> 
> 
> It says: "On SKAI,connection problems stopped the interview. On OPEN,the line went down when a woman was saying the Azov nazis are killing us. On ALPHA,the connection was lost again when a Greek from Donbass accused the the nazis. Goebells had worthy students."



Woow.. The Greek government is full blown obeying NATO in case they get angered.. their sovereignty has truly been limited to some extent



CAPRICORN-88 said:


> A humanitarian Corrider for Kiev or Green buses as they are called in Syria has been just agreed between Russia and Ukraine in Belarus.
> 
> To allow the civilian population of Kiev to leave and aids to be delivered.



Green buses were for fighters from pockets and after SAA exhaustion fighting of years where the regime failed to clear them and in order to save manpower they had to transfer them it was genius move but this is not the same here as the Ukrainian armed forces or militias don't want to be bussed out as this is just the beginning of the war itself and we are not 9 years into this conflict just 9 days


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## kingQamaR

Wish Ukrainians read your Indian nasty behaviour to there suffering. Thousands trapped Indians students in Ukraine will thank you for there misery


----------



## Ali_Baba

Invasion an 'abomination', Boris Johnson tells Ukraine in video message


Boris Johnson has told Ukranians that Russia’s invasion of the country is an “abomination”, as he said he was "heartsick at the destruction and loss of life".




www.telegraph.co.uk






Mouldy' German missiles no good for Ukraine​About 700 anti-aircraft missiles set to be donated by Germany to Ukraine are inoperable because they have been stored in "mouldy" boxes, according to a report.
The German newspaper Der Spiegel said on Friday morning that Berlin had intended to deliver 2,700 Strela anti-aircraft missiles to Ukraine but on closer inspection it was found that a third of the missiles were no longer operational.
The newspaper claimed that some of the rockets were also at least 35 years old and had stopped being used by the German army in 2012 due to a corroded or oxidised propellant charge.
Der Spiegel also said the wooden boxes in which the rockets were stored were so mouldy that in November soldiers were only allowed to enter the storage facilities where the missiles were kept if they wore protective equipment.

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## Dragons

https://twitter.com/search?q=mariupol&src=typed_query&f=live


----------



## Foinikas

Dragons said:


> Woow.. The Greek government is full blown obeying NATO in case they get angered.. NATO truly does limit sovereignty to some extent


The government and the media are pro-Ukrainian and talk all day about "Russians hammering Kiev" and "Heavy bombardments in Mariupol" and "Thousands of dead" and "heavy fighting" etc. and talking about refugees and children all day.

The government wants to gain favor with the EU and show NATO that we are a dependable ally contrary to Turkey. Basically they want to impress the Americans and Western Europeans to get alliances,deals and to get help against Turkey if the Turks decide in the future to do something similar in Thrace or they try to take over some of our islands.

A lot of greeks are pro-Russian on this. Maybe even the majority are pro-Russian or consider NATO to be the ones who provoked the Russians to do that. But a lot of people also go like "Hands off Ukraine! Pray for Ukraine! Help Ukraine!"

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## jamahir

kingQamaR said:


> As usual you sad loser you on here to see people suffer and die. I bet if I was to dug hard enough I probably discover Ukraine has insulted india for your cheering the war for Russia. On the nuclear power station, what imbecile army would let it fall in to enemies hands that provides power to its peoples most of the country. And also your imbecile Indian army shot down there own Air Force helicopter down in day time and your here giving us a running a commentary on Ukrainian tactics. unbelievable bot



You are going all over the place without knowing the connections. Don't you know that Ukranian government's ambassador to India tried to whip up Hindutvadi support for Zelensky by saying that just like "the Mughals massacred the Rajputs" the Russians are massacring the Ukranians and the ambassador said this to entice Modi government to speak to Putin to stop the incursion ? Does this sound like Ukraine ( at least the Zelensky government ) insulting India ? Didn't you read an article posted in this thread two or three days ago about the Indian-government-run State Bank of India is no longer allowing internal transactions between Indians and those Russian individuals and organizations sanctioned by the USA government, EU and the UNO and SBI has also advised other Indian organizations to stop transacting with sanctioned Russian entities ? The Modi government is collaborating and listening to NATO.


----------



## Type59

That Guy said:


> LOL, nah.
> 
> The Russians are resupplying the Ukrainians just fine, no need for NATO to send ammo to them.



I don't share your optimistic viewpoint. Russians have bomb their major stockpiles.


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> They will be used the way the Iraqi and Afghan used on us.
> 
> It's not what they can shoot down is a problem, but they are mobile, means you cannot predict where they may be at, and when you see one, you need to shut down the entire airspace for chopper and support and also CAS, it's not using them is the problem for the Russian, it's they "May" use it and you don't know that's scare them.
> 
> You just dont know where will they pop up


Did the afghans have many of them?



FuturePAF said:


> The EU, not NATO, will probably be the basis for the “European military” (which is why Ukraine wants to join the EU) with a stronger conventional Germany and stronger Nuclear France (which IMHO, think will increase their nuclear arsenal to approx. 500 warheads, possibly tactical systems) to confront a declining Russia being constrained and a China filling the gap, with the Brits right behind them at nearly the same number of warheads (on larger SSBNs and carried by F-35s) to allow Europe to cross some kind of Psychological Barrier of a “1000 European Warheads to Protect Europe”.


A new right wing French government may support Putin.


----------



## PakAlp

Enigma SIG said:


> So many advancing lines that are probably without logistic support or enough personnel. Which is why their convoys are getting hit hard.


I expected Russia to be more organised, after all they claim to be a military super power, eventually Russia will be successful but the damage will be great.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Did the afghans have many of them?
> 
> 
> A new right wing French government may support Putin.


No idea, we never know, but one or two of those stinger would be enough to close the entire airspace, we once have to close the entire AO to low flying aircraft because some ANA guy misplaced 6 stinger, The airspace was close because they think the Insurgent somehow stolen 6 stingers....


----------



## Dragons

Foinikas said:


> The government and the media are pro-Ukrainian and talk all day about "Russians hammering Kiev" and "Heavy bombardments in Mariupol" and "Thousands of dead" and "heavy fighting" etc. and talking about refugees and children all day.
> 
> The government wants to gain favor with the EU and show NATO that we are a dependable ally contrary to Turkey. Basically they want to impress the Americans and Western Europeans to get alliances,deals and to get help against Turkey if the Turks decide in the future to do something similar in Thrace or they try to take over some of our islands.
> 
> A lot of greeks are pro-Russian on this. Maybe even the majority are pro-Russian or consider NATO to be the ones who provoked the Russians to do that. But a lot of people also go like "Hands off Ukraine! Pray for Ukraine! Help Ukraine!"



Why would Turkey takeover Greece doesn't make sense and could it perhaps be due to historical phobia? This is the 21st century don't see why Turkey should want Greece


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499703290170331140

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> No idea, we never know, but one or two of those stinger would be enough to close the entire airspace, we once have to close the entire AO to low flying aircraft because some ANA guy misplaced 6 stinger, The airspace was close because they think the Insurgent somehow stolen 6 stingers....


Wow, I didnt know ANA has stingers? why? to shoot at the Taliban airforce?


----------



## Dragons

DOZENS of British war heroes flock to Ukraine to take on Russia​





Russia issued statements saying it will not treat these voluenteers as POWs yesterday meaning a direct order of execution this is about to get hot..

His from Liverpool some hooligan blood in him hence I could see the hooligan types making the journey into the bears jaws

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## Foinikas

Dragons said:


> Why would Turkey takeover Greece doesn't make sense and could it perhaps be due to historical phobia? This is the 21st century don't see why Turkey should want Greece


Big discussion,not for this thread.

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## Dragons

Foinikas said:


> Big discussion,not for this thread.



Go ahead I am all ears


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Wow, I didnt know ANA has stingers? why? to shoot at the Taliban airforce?


Those were our stinger, we put them in an ANA base, that was at the beginning of the war (05) and we like to prepare for everything.

EDIT:: I also think there are left over stock from Mujahedeen time, not all of those stuff were taken by Taliban.

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## Ali_Baba

Turkey: Erdogan power play over Putin


ERDOGAN has snubbed Vladimir Putin by invoking a sneaky power play as he is set to curb the passage of warships through the Bosphorus.




www.express.co.uk






_Two Western officials told the FT that although four Russian vessels had planned to traverse the Dardanelles and Bosphorus straits, the vessels did not make the journey over the weekend. 

One senior Western diplomat told the publication: “What happens if Russia decides to violate the terms of Montreux, as it has done in the past?_


----------



## Dragons

Both sides seems to exaggerate with their maps but this map seems geninue 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499720964816445446


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499716607471460356

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## RescueRanger

*This video appears to show a convoy Russian has entering Melitopol:*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499727385855418369


----------



## Enigma SIG

PakAlp said:


> I expected Russia to be more organised, after all they claim to be a military super power, eventually Russia will be successful but the damage will be great.


Turn's out they aren't. Forces aren't networked it seems; or lack some level of synchronization even if the network exists.

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## thetutle

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499658285250715648


I hope one of these babies goes to a NATO country for closer inspection. Or maybe NATO knows everything about it already?


----------



## Foinikas

Someone posted this on Facebook:

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## coffee_cup

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499703290170331140



Unfortunately Zelensky is biggest supporter of that AZOB which has been deeply penetrated by Neo-Nazis.

All the world should make sure regardless of the outcome of this conflict that those Nazis are brought to justice who are firing on civilians and not letting them leave.

Anti Nazi Ukranian forces must be strengthened.

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## Dragons

Foinikas said:


> Someone posted this on Facebook:
> 
> View attachment 820742



I reckon the two babies are DPR and LPR

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## Vergennes

coffee_cup said:


> Unfortunately Zelensky is biggest supporter of that AZOB which has been deeply penetrated by Neo-Nazis.
> 
> All the world should make sure regardless of the outcome of this conflict that those Nazis are brought to justice who are firing on civilians and not letting them leave.
> 
> Anti Nazi Ukranian forces must be strengthened.



Labelling Ukrainians as nazis just because some dudes have shown neo nazis tendencies.... meanwhile the real nazis are the Russians who are leveling populated areas just like they did in Syria,Chechnya etc. The real nazis (who don't even hide it) are those wagner mercenaries of which russia works with... among others...

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## Battlion25




----------



## coffee_cup

Vergennes said:


> Labelling Ukrainians as nazis just because some dudes have shown neo nazis tendencies.... meanwhile the real nazis are the Russians who are leveling populated areas just like they did in Syria,Chechnya etc. The real nazis (who don't even hide it) are those wagner mercenaries of which russia works with... among others...



No, not labelling Ukranians as nazis.

Just stating a fact that Azov is heavily penetrated by Neo-Nazis. 

Ukranians in general are normal people just like others.

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## Titanium100

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499686540196429830captured Russian soldiers



More captives


----------



## RescueRanger

NATO must adjust after Russia's invasion of Ukraine - Romania​








NATO must adjust after Russia's invasion of Ukraine - Romania


NATO must adapt military posture at its eastern flank to new reality after Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Romania's Foreign Minister Bogdan Aurescu said on Friday, without spelling out if he wanted permanent presence of allied troops there.




www.reuters.com







coffee_cup said:


> No, not labelling Ukranians as nazis.
> 
> Just stating a fact that Azov is heavily penetrated by Neo-Nazis.
> 
> Ukranians in general are normal people just like others.


Azov are Neo Nazi's anyone who disputes that is fooling themselves.



Battlion25 said:


>

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## Titanium100

RescueRanger said:


> NATO must adjust after Russia's invasion of Ukraine - Romania​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO must adjust after Russia's invasion of Ukraine - Romania
> 
> 
> NATO must adapt military posture at its eastern flank to new reality after Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Romania's Foreign Minister Bogdan Aurescu said on Friday, without spelling out if he wanted permanent presence of allied troops there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com



Things are going as I predicted.. I predicted Russia will benefit

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## Ashesh

Vergennes said:


> Labelling Ukrainians as nazis just because some dudes have shown neo nazis tendencies.... meanwhile the real nazis are the Russians who are leveling populated areas just like they did in Syria,Chechnya etc. The real nazis (who don't even hide it) are those wagner mercenaries of which russia works with... among others...


#US, #EU & #NATO countries are Neo Nazis Terrorists or not? They bombed Libya, Iraq et al., Countries?

#EU didn't sanction Dady America & other Countries who participated in those War?

#US, #EU & #NATO don't have moral compass, shouldn't be lecturing World. They are bunch of Hypocrites!

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## Ashesh

Battlion25 said:


> Can mods really eliminate this folks.. We are having constructive talk here and besides no they are not Neo-Nazi... If you have nothing intelligible to say don't contribute



You can Tag Moderators and get me banned. However, it doesn't change the 'FACT' that US, EU & NATO Countries are Genociders, only carrying for #Ukrainians because they are White Christians.

Another thing- they've used #Ukraine as Bait, so that US and other Defence Companies can earn $$$, War Machinery continues. 😊

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## lightning F57

Battlion25 said:


> Can mods really eliminate this folks.. We are having constructive talk here and besides no they are not Neo-Nazi... If you have nothing intelligible to say don't contribute


The crux of that post is correct in the sense that the west has clear double standards and lack of value for non european life. We see this with the reactions from western media, politicians and companies. I think its valid for discussion here.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499737595789688834

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## Titanium100

RescueRanger said:


> NATO must adjust after Russia's invasion of Ukraine - Romania​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO must adjust after Russia's invasion of Ukraine - Romania
> 
> 
> NATO must adapt military posture at its eastern flank to new reality after Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Romania's Foreign Minister Bogdan Aurescu said on Friday, without spelling out if he wanted permanent presence of allied troops there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Azov are Neo Nazi's anyone who disputes that is fooling themselves.



This is what I have written before the invasion and despite all this sanction thingy still my prediction is correct as the sanctions will be temporary.. I was one of the very few individuals like in 0.1% who believed the invasion was gonna happen since December.

---
Post 1:

The reason the Americans were spamming the invasion was part of their mind games and to disrupt Russia's intentions..

1. Biden said many times with confident look ''He(Putin) will attack cause he put himself where he can't backout''

This means Biden's intel team is top notch...

2. The situation is double edged sword for Putin with two options ''Invade by making an incursion re-enter the revival of new Russian age at the becosting of US or retreat giving initiative back to the US where Russia's influence will slowly begin to fade and that aura of fear will be gone in Europe..

Russian incursion will embolden them into a new Russian golden age while the US will fade influence wise slowly by such outcome where the Russian's will step into the world stage overnight..

3. Hence the Americans have been obsessed with invasion because they don't want it to happen otherwise it will make there prestige suffer including influence will wane down

It is the aftermath outfall what scares the US and loss of influence as consequence and A new belligerent Russia stepping into the world stage.. Russia's stock will go up ridiculously and will mentally gain influence over east europe as few of them will exit for security reasons... Croatia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Greece, Macedonia, Montonegro will leave NATO and the baltics may exit but not guaraanteed..

An Eastern ortodox alliance could take shape as a consequence of that on the eastern-south European territories
----------

Post 2:

But the question is will the decision come.. I would say for now there is 70% of it happening or 30% of him retreating..

Either way it will have a global impact... A subdued Russia or resurgent one..

------
Post 3:
Ukraine will not create war outside of ukraine but influence for the region...

7 billion are watching on social media imagine if Russia dispatch them in few days infront of the world... The impact will be gigantic...

This will implant Russia as the new age future in the back of Peoples minds.. This is the social media age

----

Post 4:

Not really bro.. A russian retreat will also have bad consequences for China as emboldened US will emerge from this crisis.. Russia even doing a limited incursion will halt a re-emergence and emboldened US war hawks something similar to the cold war but at much less scale..

An emboldened US rednecks will heavily fortify Japan, South korea, Guam and japanese islands closer to Taiwan like Okinawa with reinforcements like madman hence this retreat will have consequences and blow-back for Russia and China...

Just watch closely Biden will give orders to dispatch and strengthen these flanks just like he did here succesfully and he will see that it worked..

deployment of rednecks and hillbillies is guaraanted






Source




__





Stragetic setback for Russia - The US will emerge re-fuelled


Are you really trying to convince yourself that over a 25% decline in Russian GDP is a good thing? The state of the Russian economy is so bad, this joker is talking about the price of his home Internet. Had a 25% decline in GDP happened in the US, we’d be crucified. Meanwhile, Roscosmos is on...



defence.pk

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499737208852566016

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499737564412092421


----------



## jamahir

kingQamaR said:


> Big Modi can not safe his Indian girl students now being kidnapped by the Ukrainian locals. Mughals bit, you lost me there , doesn’t matter that’s how Indian mind works muddy the waters prevent being exposed
> 
> Modi the charlatan, you were picking on Muslim girls , now Ukrainian men doing it to your girls you have no answer just hope the red army doesn’t get to them first



1. The underlined : You should be talking about how Zelensky's peoples' minds work. They are the ones inciting Modi's followers to support them against the Russians. And you support Zelensky.

2. The second paragraph : Can you not be crass and uncouth please ?

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## Oracle

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499737595789688834


and they will give it to india ?


----------



## RescueRanger

jamahir said:


> 1. The underlined : You should be talking about how Zelensky's peoples' minds work. They are the ones inciting Modi's followers to support them against the Russians. And you support Zelensky.
> 
> 2. The second paragraph : Can you not be crass and uncouth please ?


I've reported his post, please can you do the same so he gets what he deserves which is a time out.







Apparently the DPR suffered losses overnight:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499740166696669184

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## jamahir

RescueRanger said:


> I've reported his post, please can you do the same so he gets what he deserves which is a time out.
> 
> View attachment 820763



Done.

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## Musings

kingQamaR said:


> Big Modi can not safe his Indian girl students now being kidnapped by the Ukrainian locals. Mughals bit, you lost me there , doesn’t matter that’s how Indian mind works muddy the waters prevent being exposed
> 
> Modi the charlatan, you were picking on Muslim girls , now Ukrainian men doing it to your girls you have no answer just hope the red army doesn’t get to them first



I log on here to gain knowledge and educate myself on current events in this conflict. Reading your abuse and post is disappointing and not helpful. 
As far as this conflict goes - the Ukrainians judge Indian and Pakistanis as brown skinned 2nd class citizens so i suggest you take time off against your rampant rage at the neighbors flag and learn about the real issues going on today....

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## Foinikas

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499703290170331140


Regardez ici,mon frere:

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## TheNoob

Battlion25 said:


> Can mods really eliminate this folks.. We are having constructive talk here and besides no they are not Neo-Nazi... If you have nothing intelligible to say don't contribute



The man's not wrong.


RescueRanger said:


> I've reported his post, please can you do the same so he gets what he deserves which is a time out.
> 
> View attachment 820763
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently the DPR suffered losses overnight:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499740166696669184



Man Modern warfare is a bloody business. 
At this rate, the infantry will become an afterthought and human value in battlefields will degrade further given the way tech has paved itself.

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499439350907559940

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499742246110912518

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## Titanium100

Titanium100 said:


> This is what I have written before the invasion and despite all this sanction thingy still my prediction is correct as the sanctions will be temporary.. I was one of the very few individuals like in 0.1% who believed the invasion was gonna happen since December.
> 
> ---
> Post 1:
> 
> The reason the Americans were spamming the invasion was part of their mind games and to disrupt Russia's intentions..
> 
> 1. Biden said many times with confident look ''He(Putin) will attack cause he put himself where he can't backout''
> 
> This means Biden's intel team is top notch...
> 
> 2. The situation is double edged sword for Putin with two options ''Invade by making an incursion re-enter the revival of new Russian age at the becosting of US or retreat giving initiative back to the US where Russia's influence will slowly begin to fade and that aura of fear will be gone in Europe..
> 
> Russian incursion will embolden them into a new Russian golden age while the US will fade influence wise slowly by such outcome where the Russian's will step into the world stage overnight..
> 
> 3. Hence the Americans have been obsessed with invasion because they don't want it to happen otherwise it will make there prestige suffer including influence will wane down
> 
> It is the aftermath outfall what scares the US and loss of influence as consequence and A new belligerent Russia stepping into the world stage.. Russia's stock will go up ridiculously and will mentally gain influence over east europe as few of them will exit for security reasons... Croatia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Greece, Macedonia, Montonegro will leave NATO and the baltics may exit but not guaraanteed..
> 
> An Eastern ortodox alliance could take shape as a consequence of that on the eastern-south European territories
> ----------
> 
> Post 2:
> 
> But the question is will the decision come.. I would say for now there is 70% of it happening or 30% of him retreating..
> 
> Either way it will have a global impact... A subdued Russia or resurgent one..
> 
> ------
> Post 3:
> Ukraine will not create war outside of ukraine but influence for the region...
> 
> 7 billion are watching on social media imagine if Russia dispatch them in few days infront of the world... The impact will be gigantic...
> 
> This will implant Russia as the new age future in the back of Peoples minds.. This is the social media age
> 
> ----
> 
> Post 4:
> 
> Not really bro.. A russian retreat will also have bad consequences for China as emboldened US will emerge from this crisis.. Russia even doing a limited incursion will halt a re-emergence and emboldened US war hawks something similar to the cold war but at much less scale..
> 
> An emboldened US rednecks will heavily fortify Japan, South korea, Guam and japanese islands closer to Taiwan like Okinawa with reinforcements like madman hence this retreat will have consequences and blow-back for Russia and China...
> 
> Just watch closely Biden will give orders to dispatch and strengthen these flanks just like he did here succesfully and he will see that it worked..
> 
> deployment of rednecks and hillbillies is guaraanted
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stragetic setback for Russia - The US will emerge re-fuelled
> 
> 
> Are you really trying to convince yourself that over a 25% decline in Russian GDP is a good thing? The state of the Russian economy is so bad, this joker is talking about the price of his home Internet. Had a 25% decline in GDP happened in the US, we’d be crucified. Meanwhile, Roscosmos is on...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


Dating back as far back as early December. I see things coming ages before they come and people were shouting me down or the notion of an invasion itself and especially more so from the Russophiles themselves


Titanium100 said:


> Georgia, Donbass and Crimea did occur right after each other.. Nobody is bluffing and mostly certainly Russia





Titanium100 said:


> I think Russia might actully proceed with the Invasion late January because they seem like hell-bent on this


----------



## That Guy

Titanium100 said:


> Things are going as I predicted.. I predicted Russia will benefit


Lol, sure.

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## Titanium100

That Guy said:


> Lol, sure.



All this sanctions is temporary Russia has already scored a moral victory besides the invasion itself and they laid a claim on Europe via Ukraine. I predict right now and mark my words Finland is next and this will be an easy invasion and as a matter fact much much easier incursion as the population is only 5m.

Bearing the sanctions persist because previously the idea would have been him waiting couple of years atleast another 10 years before invading Finland but if the sanctions are in place and heavy he will just go ahead and get it out of the way immediately post Ukraine without any pause and max any pause will be few months just regrouping his forces to enter Finland and then he will use Sweden as bargaining chip...

Threatening to go in and then re-enter negotiations in order for them to remove sanctions.. Voila his gained Ukraine and Finland back to back and all sanctions lifted for sparring Sweden


----------



## That Guy

Titanium100 said:


> Dating back as far back as December. I see things coming ages before they come and people were shouting me down or the notion of an invasion itself and especially more so from the Russophiles themselves


There is a very good reason why everyone with a brain thought the Russians wouldn't be stupid enough to invade, and we're seeing it played out. Russia's military is a joke.

Putin has proven himself to be self-deluded clown, instead of the chess master his totally-straight fan boy base makes him out to be.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499454755214610444


----------



## TheNoob

That Guy said:


> *There is a very good reason why everyone with a brain thought the Russians wouldn't be stupid enough to invade, and we're seeing it played out. Russia's military is a joke.*
> 
> Putin has proven himself to be self-deluded clown, instead of the chess master his totally-straight fan boy base makes him out to be.



And you've judged this from just 9 days of conflict? 
Truly, the armest of the most armchair.

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## That Guy

Titanium100 said:


> All this sanctions is temporary Russia has already scored a moral victory besides the invasion itself and laid a claim on Europe via Ukraine. I predict right now and mark my words Finland is next and this will be an easy invasion and as a matter fact much much easier incursion as the population is only 5m.
> 
> Bearing the sanctions persist because previously the idea would have been him waiting couple of years atleast another 10 years before invading Finland but if the sanctions are in place and heavy he will just go ahead and get it out of the way immediately post Ukraine without any pause and max any pause will be few months just regrouping his forces to enter Finland and then he will use Sweden as bargaining chip...
> 
> Threatening to go in and then re-enter negotiations for them to remove sanctions.. Voila his gained Ukraine and Finland back to back and all sanctions lifted for sparring Sweden


I've both bookmarked and screenshotted your comment.

No going back now, LOL!

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499746350862409731


----------



## That Guy

TheNoob said:


> And you've judged this from just 9 days of conflict?
> Truly, the armest of the most armchair.


Me? No, no. I thought this was gonna be an easy win for Putin. I actually had to completely admit that I was wrong, which I'm fully open to doing, because that's what someone who's wrong should do. I knew he'd suffer some major losses, but I never thought it would be this bad, or that it would take this long.

Still, don't talk about armchairs, when you're literally on an internet defense forum, cheerleading a war. 🤣


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

That Guy said:


> Me? No, no. I thought this was gonna be an easy win for Putin. I actually had to completely admit that I was wrong, which I'm fully open to doing, because that's what someone who's wrong should do. I knew he'd suffer some major losses, but I never thought it would be this bad, or that it would take this long.
> 
> Still, don't talk about armchairs, when you're literally on an internet defense forum, cheerleading a war. 🤣











Russia's chaotic and confusing invasion of Ukraine is baffling military analysts


One week into Russia's invasion of Ukraine and military analysts are united on one front: Russia's invasion has not gone entirely to plan.




www.cnbc.com




Russia’s chaotic and confusing invasion of Ukraine is baffling military analysts​One week into Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and military analysts are united on one front, at least: Russia’s invasion has not gone entirely to plan, looking disorganized, uncoordinated and sluggish to observers.
​

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## uhuru

Ashesh said:


> You can Tag Moderators and get me banned. However, it doesn't change the 'FACT' that #US, #EU & #NATO Countries are Genociders, only carrying for #Ukrainians because they are White Christians.
> 
> Another thing- they've used #Ukraine as Bait, so that US and other Defence Companies can earn $$$, War Machinery continues. 😊


rafiki,

calm down. As a tanzanian - we have experienced and were fortunate to have wisdom of Mwalimu Julius.

First - Neither the East nor the West are our friends. They are all colonisers in their very right. 

Let us take Soviet empire. The attrocities they have supported on this continent will pale to what happened in other continents; at the same time the West supported genocidal dictators like Mobutu and other. Let us not even start with the French. Now the new players are the Chinese who are in their own right a new kind of colonisers.

Until the foundations on Non-Aligned and independent states as a union is not performed, these colonial powers will right to do Might is Right. 

US/UK nor Soviet/Russia have any moral grounds to state anything at this stage. 

Frankly, for us, we dont really care as it is not affecting our continent and we will not take any side. Our country's policy is always been of non interference. When Uganda which was supported by the west decided to harass us via Idi Amin, despite discusssion the meglomaniac invaded our regional areas; that is the first time we had to take action against this lunatic. Entire nations shunned us for what we had to do; only once we arrived there, the actual nature of Amin's regime and attrocities came to forefront. The west was quiet. But that burden cost us over 2 decades to recover from.

My 2 cents; i frankly dont care what happens in Europe. Chickens come home to roost.

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## TheNoob

That Guy said:


> Me? No, no. I thought this was gonna be an easy win for Putin. I actually had to completely admit that I was wrong, which I'm fully open to doing, because that's what someone who's wrong should do. I knew he'd suffer some major losses, but I never thought it would be this bad, or that it would take this long.
> 
> Still, don't talk about armchairs, when you're literally on an internet defense forum, cheerleading a war. 🤣



You thought this was gonna be an easy win for Russia.
Based on your assumption.

You accepted you were wrong,
But then you went ahead and did the same thing regarding the losses.
Based on... your assumptions once again after watching a few videos.

Sooooo, if anything,
You need a new armchair, this one is getting old. 

Now, lets see here.
We have only seen TWO wars recently fought between conventional militaries. 
It is an accepted fact that both sides will go toe to toe. 

The same is the case with the Russians here.
Ukraine wasn't a cakewalk.
They're both former soviet states, 
They both have the same/similar equipment and understanding of each others tactic and former mentality. 

They are also head to head together in this conventional fight. 
There is no superior side from what I see. 

UKAF has done its finest to stop the Russians while Russians have still managed to move on ahead despite the fierce resistance. 
I think the assumptions people here are making based on the fact that most wars in the recent past have been against disorganized armies that have lacked morale In the moment of their fights. 
This is not the case with Russians and the Ukrainians. 


So both of your assumptions are wrong, 
because the reality is that they're equally matched together. 
And the fight is fierce, the losses are tremendous on both sides of the war. 


Only the end will give us the answers we seek, 
Not right now.

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## RescueRanger

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499742246110912518


I just love that ural Ct. I’ve always wanted.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499750547653644296

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## Titanium100

zartosht said:


> What nation was opposing the syrian state jn that war?



You brought in Russia and hide behind them and didn't even win the war... They are still alive and hold territories with sheer power.. Despite inviting in superpowers and Being proud of an stalemate when the Syrian economy was destroyed not theres is utter weakness and hopelessness..

Besides all these countries with rafidh elements have been destroyed because they are expandables not the other way around.. Destruction follows you not because you are causing but it is selected for you...


----------



## That Guy

TheNoob said:


> You thought this was gonna be an easy win for Russia.
> Based on your assumption.
> 
> You accepted you were wrong,
> But then you went ahead and did the same thing regarding the losses.
> Based on... your assumptions once again after watching a few videos.
> 
> Sooooo, if anything,
> You need a new armchair, this one is getting old.
> 
> Now, lets see here.
> We have only seen TWO wars recently fought between conventional militaries.
> It is an accepted fact that both sides will go toe to toe.
> 
> The same is the case with the Russians here.
> Ukraine wasn't a cakewalk.
> They're both former soviet states,
> They both have the same/similar equipment and understanding of each others tactic and former mentality.
> 
> They are also head to head together in this conventional fight.
> There is no superior side from what I see.
> 
> UKAF has done its finest to stop the Russians while Russians have still managed to move on ahead despite the fierce resistance.
> I think the assumptions people here are making based on the fact that most wars in the recent past have been against disorganized armies that have lacked morale In the moment of their fights.
> This is not the case with Russians and the Ukrainians.
> 
> 
> So both of your assumptions are wrong,
> because the reality is that they're equally matched together.
> And the fight is fierce, the losses are tremendous on both sides of the war.
> 
> 
> Only the end will give us the answers we seek,
> Not right now.


Lmao.

If you're gonna talk about armchairs generals, please don't make such basic bad comparisons. It's like saying that the US Army and the Somalian army are equally matched.

🤣🤣


----------



## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499750868979261446

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## That Guy

lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499753688478494721


----------



## dBSPL

There is a group whose entire message history consists of posting to this topic, it is divided into two within itself,
- Those who became members after the war started,
- Those who are a member before, but send their first and all messages to this thread;

There are 6 or 7 members matching this profile, maybe more.

I have the idea that a few accounts in this thread are paid trolls.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RescueRanger

Life under the spectre of war:

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## Vergennes

That Guy said:


> lmao
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499753688478494721



Russians have shown poor battle and units management in this conflict. Units don't know where they go,who are friends or foes...


----------



## INDIAPOSITIVE

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499722858880249858

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## NotSure

That Guy said:


> lmao
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499753688478494721


This time it was not the ghost of kiev?

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## Vergennes

Meanwhile in occupied melitopol..... two realities

shown by the russians






the other...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499732281430323200


----------



## RescueRanger

That Guy said:


> lmao
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499753688478494721


Queue this music in the background:

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499756356936646669


----------



## dBSPL

INDIAPOSITIVE said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499722858880249858


Russia failed to participate directly in the World cup. Russia was going to play a Play-off match with Poland, but now this match is very difficult to be played.

If Russia was going to start another war to go to the world cup without playing a playoff game, that would be a lot of fun.


----------



## That Guy

RescueRanger said:


> Queue this music in the background:


LOL

The Ukrainians didn't even have to do anything this time. The Russians pushed the Russians out.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Trango Towers

That Guy said:


> Lmao.
> 
> If you're gonna talk about armchairs generals, please don't make such basic bad comparisons. It's like saying that the US Army and the Somalian army are equally matched.
> 
> 🤣🤣


Last time the US army tangled with the Somalian people they had their a55es whooped so bad they made movies to get over the butt hurt

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## RescueRanger

A roadside IED in Eastern Ukraine:

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## Maula Jatt

INDIAPOSITIVE said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499722858880249858


Lol 
Is he threatening to nuke FIFA and qatar too? 🤣🤣


----------



## The Eagle

*Interesting side effect of European sanctions on Russia (as per Phil Seymour - President of the association of European Leasing Companies.* 

All over the word airlines don't own their own planes, they lease them. The European Union has imposed sanctions on Russia and obliged European leasing companies to take back all leased aircraft from Russia by March 28th. That's a total of 520 aircraft. Phil Seymour, President of the Association of European Leasing Companies: 

1. Return of 520 aircraft! How is this to be done? The Russians said if you refuse to lease them to us, get them back yourself! How can we get 520 crews to Russia when the airspace in Russia, Belarus and Ukraine is closed? We can't fly in! 

2. Once the handover has taken place in Russian airports, the planes will no longer be Russian. But a non-Russian plane is not allowed to fly in Russian airspace – the Russian airspace is blocked! We won't be able to fly out! 

3. However, the leasing companies are the initiators of the termination of these leases. In the original calculation of the cost of fines in such a case, we will all be bankrupted at once. It's easier and cheaper to go bankrupt than to take back the planes. 

4. February is over and Russia has to pay the lease payments for the month. Russia is willing to pay but cannot pay because it is excluded from SWIFT. We ourselves have to pay fines because of the terminations, but in view of the lack of incoming payments from Russia we have no money for such payments! 

5. Even if we take back these planes, what are we going to do with them? We don't need them, nobody wants them and it's impossible to sell them! 

6. The Boeings of American leasing companies are not affected. If Europe takes the planes away from the Russians, the US will supply Russia with its Boeing planes and become the world's No. 1 airline, bankrupting both the European leasing company and Airbus."

_copied_

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## TheNoob

That Guy said:


> Lmao.
> 
> If you're gonna talk about armchairs generals, please don't make such basic bad comparisons. It's like saying that the US Army and the Somalian army are equally matched.
> 
> 🤣🤣



...No reasoning.

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## RescueRanger

The Russians have allegedly captured Enerhodar a city in Zaporizhzhia Oblast 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499759048308187137

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## That Guy

Trango Towers said:


> Last time the US army tangled with the Somalian people they had their a55es whooped so bad they made movies to get over the but hurt








LOL



TheNoob said:


> ...No reasoning.


No, it's perfect reasoning.

You're literally comparing a major military power with a middling power.

It's a bad comparison.


----------



## TheNoob

That Guy said:


> View attachment 820801
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> 
> No, it's perfect reasoning.
> 
> You're literally comparing a major military power with a middling power.
> 
> It's a bad comparison.



You do you then.
The fault still lies in your own assumptions and exaggerations.


----------



## HttpError

dBSPL said:


> There is a group whose entire message history consists of posting to this topic, it is divided into two within itself,
> - Those who became members after the war started,
> - Those who are a member before, but send their first and all messages to this thread;
> 
> There are 6 or 7 members matching this profile, maybe more.
> 
> I have the idea that a few accounts in this thread are paid trolls.



I'd like to know how much they are getting paid for it? Because I also want to earn some $$.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jamahir

uhuru said:


> Let us take Soviet empire. The attrocities they have supported on this continent will pale to what happened in other continents



The Egyptians, the Libyans, the Algerians, the Congolese and the Mozambicans will not agree with you.

And please don't be patronizing and tell someone unnecessarily "Rafiki, calm down".


----------



## Wergeland 2.0

Titanium100 said:


> All this sanctions is temporary Russia has already scored a moral victory besides the invasion itself and they laid a claim on Europe via Ukraine. I predict right now and mark my words Finland is next and this will be an easy invasion and as a matter fact much much easier incursion as the population is only 5m.
> 
> Bearing the sanctions persist because previously the idea would have been him waiting couple of years atleast another 10 years before invading Finland but if the sanctions are in place and heavy he will just go ahead and get it out of the way immediately post Ukraine without any pause and max any pause will be few months just regrouping his forces to enter Finland and then he will use Sweden as bargaining chip...
> 
> Threatening to go in and then re-enter negotiations in order for them to remove sanctions.. Voila his gained Ukraine and Finland back to back and all sanctions lifted for sparring Sweden



I kindly disagree with the Finland invasion.
There is nothing special for Russia to gain compared to what it would have to spend of recources.

Finland neither gives then access to Atlantic warm water ports or a significantly better position in the Baltic Sea, where they already have Kaliningrad and Access via sealane to the south of Finland. They would still be closed off from the Atlantic by Denmark-Sweden straits.

If Russia were to attack it would be mich easier game with Lithuania, with attack from both Belarus and Kaliningrad. I would say Poland is the major next prize if Russia wanted to go full Soviet mode, but i dont think they want to.

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## RescueRanger

This video claims that the Russians have captured this down:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499761662169075721


----------



## dBSPL

(second video, lmfao)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499749764505772032

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## dbc

Trango Towers said:


> Last time the US army tangled with the Somalian people they had their a55es whooped so bad they made *movies* to get over the butt hurt



what you didn't see in the movie *Black Hawk down* is that there were two AC130 Spectre gunships in orbit over Mogadishu that day. If the US military had no regard for civilian losses they could have flattened several city blocks that day and killed tens of thousands of people. what you didn't see in the movie is that the Italians a NATO ally leaked news of US plans to Farrah Aidid - so the blood of US Rangers is on their hands.

If the US Military was truly unshackled like the Russian military is in Ukraine we wouldn't be having this conversation about Somalia or Afghanistan,

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## beijingwalker

What do Russians think of the war in Ukraine?​

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## That Guy

TheNoob said:


> You do you then.
> The fault still lies in your own assumptions and exaggerations.


It's a military enthusiast forum, dude take a chill pill. We're all speculating.

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## Battlion25

beijingwalker said:


> What do Russians think of the war in Ukraine?​



Interesting the fact that they welcomed it


----------



## jamahir

RescueRanger said:


> This video claims that the Russians have captured this down:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499761662169075721



It is notable how civil the Russians have been with the civilians who easily pass by Russian vehicles and patrols. If instead it had been the Americans here or say in Iraq the civilian cars would have been shot up.

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## dBSPL

Trivia: Turkiye is its only neighbor that has not been occupied or not been militarily intervened by the Russian army since the founding of the Soviet Russia.

///

Just before this war, Russia had defended themselves by claiming to have liberated Ukraine from the Turks. Today, they gave a note to Bulgaria, and in the official message it was emphasized that the Russians saved the Bulgarians from the Turks by liberating them. These are really interesting political messages. It's like an expression of what Russia hides inside...

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499766667819339787


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## Trango Towers

That Guy said:


> View attachment 820801
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> 
> No, it's perfect reasoning.
> 
> You're literally comparing a major military power with a middling power.
> 
> It's a bad comparison.


Yes...if winning was just about casualties then clearly America won. But wars are about who is standing last. America lost my friend. However you paint it

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## Jalut

Kharkiv is slowly being turned into the stone ages


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499767874306514946


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499767776776445959


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## That Guy

Trango Towers said:


> Yes...if winning was just about casualties then clearly America won. But wars are about who is standing last. America lost my friend. However you paint it


Lmao. You said they got their asses handed to them. The numbers suggest that the Americans just lost interest.

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## TheNoob

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499766667819339787



This video in the tweet is either being posted as "Abandoned Russian Equipment" or as "Ambushed Russian Column". 
I wonder what is next 

Looks clearly abandoned.


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## coffee_cup

The Eagle said:


> *Interesting side effect of European sanctions on Russia (as per Phil Seymour - President of the association of European Leasing Companies.*
> 
> All over the word airlines don't own their own planes, they lease them. The European Union has imposed sanctions on Russia and obliged European leasing companies to take back all leased aircraft from Russia by March 28th. That's a total of 520 aircraft. Phil Seymour, President of the Association of European Leasing Companies:
> 
> 1. Return of 520 aircraft! How is this to be done? The Russians said if you refuse to lease them to us, get them back yourself! How can we get 520 crews to Russia when the airspace in Russia, Belarus and Ukraine is closed? We can't fly in!
> 
> 2. Once the handover has taken place in Russian airports, the planes will no longer be Russian. But a non-Russian plane is not allowed to fly in Russian airspace – the Russian airspace is blocked! We won't be able to fly out!
> 
> 3. However, the leasing companies are the initiators of the termination of these leases. In the original calculation of the cost of fines in such a case, we will all be bankrupted at once. It's easier and cheaper to go bankrupt than to take back the planes.
> 
> 4. February is over and Russia has to pay the lease payments for the month. Russia is willing to pay but cannot pay because it is excluded from SWIFT. We ourselves have to pay fines because of the terminations, but in view of the lack of incoming payments from Russia we have no money for such payments!
> 
> 5. Even if we take back these planes, what are we going to do with them? We don't need them, nobody wants them and it's impossible to sell them!
> 
> 6. The Boeings of American leasing companies are not affected. If Europe takes the planes away from the Russians, the US will supply Russia with its Boeing planes and become the world's No. 1 airline, bankrupting both the European leasing company and Airbus."
> 
> _copied_



What on earth! 

So will those planes be rotting in Russia?

I read somewhere, Russia was considering nationalizing them. RT was reporting about something like that.


----------



## uhuru

jamahir said:


> The Egyptians, the Libyans, the Algerians, the Congolese and the Mozambicans will not agree with you.
> 
> And please don't be patronizing and tell someone unnecessarily "Rafiki, calm down".


They are part of the colonialisers puppet regimes. Unfortunately, the colonisers have left but left their puppets behind not only in this continent but elsewhere.

Please kindly write with respect just as I am writing with respect. 

Asante.


----------



## dBSPL

Swiss central bank Freezes the Russian central bank's receivables. Transaction banned.

Switzerland began to plunder Russian assets.


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## That Guy

TheNoob said:


> This video in the tweet is either being posted as "Abandoned Russian Equipment" or as "Ambushed Russian Column".
> I wonder what is next
> 
> Looks clearly abandoned.


Not necessary, it could be both. They were ambushed, so they had to quickly abandon their vehicles and retreat to a safe position.


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## That Guy

dBSPL said:


> Swiss central bank Freezes the Russian central bank's receivables. Transaction banned.
> 
> Switzerland began to plunder Russian assets.


LOL, Swiss doing what they do best. Making any excuse to steal as much money as possible, while facing zero consequences.

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## dBSPL

Using apartments as target practice, 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499757906782216204


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## That Guy

uhuru said:


> They are part of the colonialisers puppet regimes. Unfortunately, the colonisers have left but left their puppets behind not only in this continent but elsewhere.
> 
> Please kindly write with respect just as I am writing with respect.
> 
> Asante.


Bro, don't engage him if you make a reasonable argument, he'll just call you arrogant and start to malign you.

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## nang2

An interesting video recommended on how Russians think. Spoken by a Finnish intelligence officer with English subtitle.


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## coffee_cup

Trango Towers said:


> Yes...if winning was just about casualties then clearly America won. But wars are about who is standing last. America lost my friend. However you paint it



20+ Years in the poorest country of the world.

2 Trillion $ + wasted in a wasteland

Flattened cities by carpet bombings (cluster bombs, mother of all bombs, depleted uranium and what not)

Countless attacks on Funerals, Weddings, Kindergartens, Hospitals

Retreated by installing the same govt they wanted to defeat.

Not a single person prosecuted against war crimes in ICJ (or whatever is that shyt called)

And this is victory for those Western mainstream media consumers.

Simply pathetic on every human level!

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## dBSPL

Pantsir-S1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499651826643255299It is in excellent condition, little used by its owner, the only problem is that gas tank needs repair, and, err, the radar does not work very well.


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## maverick1977

Vergennes said:


> Russians have shown poor battle and units management in this conflict. Units don't know where they go,who are friends or foes...





That Guy said:


> View attachment 820801
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> 
> No, it's perfect reasoning.
> 
> You're literally comparing a major military power with a middling power.
> 
> It's a bad comparison.



The best comparison will between US and China or Russia.


----------



## Microsoft

That Guy said:


> Do you not understand the difference between a country and a company?



Actually I don't understand the need to bypass the real hypocrisy and brag about replacing a component that has minimal impact against the Russian invasion. Sounds like pussyfooting around actual solutions available but still talk about "Muh EViL RuSsIa!"

There now that I've spelled it out for you hopefully it's easier to understand.

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## That Guy

coffee_cup said:


> 20+ Years in the poorest country of the world.
> 
> 2 Trillion $ + wasted in a wasteland
> 
> Flattened cities by carpet bombings (cluster bombs, mother of all bombs, depleted uranium and what not)
> 
> Countless attacks on Funerals, Weddings, Kindergartens, Hospitals
> 
> Retreated by installing the same govt they wanted to defeat.
> 
> Not a single person prosecuted against war crimes in ICJ (or whatever is that shyt called)
> 
> And this is victory for those Western mainstream media consumers.
> 
> Simply pathetic on every human level!


I never said anything about winning.

Lmao, these attempts to attack me, without directly naming or replying to me are hilarious! 🤣🤣



Microsoft said:


> Actually I don't understand the need to bypass the real hypocrisy and brag about replacing a component that has minimal impact against the Russian invasion. Sounds like pussyfooting around actual solutions available but still talk about "Muh EViL RuSsIa!"
> 
> There now that I've spelled it out for you hopefully it's easier to understand.


LMAO, way to side step your own point, because you realized you didn't read my comment properly.

This entire thread is a gift that keeps on giving


----------



## Khanate

*Monopoly on violence**... 🧐*










Zibago said:


> Hey Pakistanis its ok to point out western hypocrisy in reporting but why are you guys backing Russia?
> Dude what Russia is doing is exactly what India did to us
> We wont take sides but its not justified




Who is backing Russia? We don't have such short memories!

We are talking about developments related to Ukraine that we care about.

On Ukraine: I'm absolutely certain posters on this thread have all the sympathy for Ukraine, as I do, but our sympathy is no good.

Best we can do is be fog of war enjoyers.

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## jamahir

uhuru said:


> They are part of the colonialisers puppet regimes. Unfortunately, the colonisers have left but left their puppets behind not only in this continent but elsewhere.



How are "they" the colonizers and how are these "regimes" puppets ?



uhuru said:


> Please kindly write with respect just as I am writing with respect.
> 
> Asante.



Eh what ? When was I disrespectful ? It was you, yes ?

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## PakAlp

Titanium100 said:


> All this sanctions is temporary Russia has already scored a moral victory besides the invasion itself and they laid a claim on Europe via Ukraine. I predict right now and mark my words Finland is next and this will be an easy invasion and as a matter fact much much easier incursion as the population is only 5m.
> 
> Bearing the sanctions persist because previously the idea would have been him waiting couple of years atleast another 10 years before invading Finland but if the sanctions are in place and heavy he will just go ahead and get it out of the way immediately post Ukraine without any pause and max any pause will be few months just regrouping his forces to enter Finland and then he will use Sweden as bargaining chip...
> 
> Threatening to go in and then re-enter negotiations in order for them to remove sanctions.. Voila his gained Ukraine and Finland back to back and all sanctions lifted for sparring Sweden



I doubt they will go further than Ukraine but your comment on East Orthodox alliance could come true. Russia has been slowly trying to promote orthodoxy and disagree with the west extreme liberal/secular ideology, they have no choice aswell, if Russia follows the west then over the years Russia will become the west sidekick. The west ideology is very attractive, they promote it through Hollywood, media, education system and slowly its creeping all over the world and conquering. I've met many European and they are religious and conservative, family type of people.

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## uhuru

That Guy said:


> Bro, don't engage him if you make a reasonable argument, he'll just call you arrogant and start to malign you.


tnx rafiki - why moderators dont clean up this place. no civilised debate can be had.

is he a banyani/muhindi?

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## Meengla

Trango Towers said:


> Yes...if winning was just about casualties then clearly America won. But wars are about who is standing last. America lost my friend. However you paint it



That's correct.
And I think Russia/Soviets were not a competent fighting force against the Germans in WW 2 either but they prevailed over the Germans because of grit and ability to take huge losses. In the end, a chunk of Europe was occupied by the Soviets for decades. Russians maybe a greatly diminished force now and I think Ukrainians are not some babe-in-the-woods weak and defenseless but Russians are going to be more and more ruthless the more resistance they face and eventually they will prevail in securing a chunk of Ukrainian land and hold on to that for decades. Ukrainians are giving a good fight back but honestly nothing so extraordinary about it: *Ukrainians have been preparing for this war, their population numbers are not bad when compared with Russia, they have been well supplied by foreign powers, AND they are fighting on their own turf. I'd wager that it is the Russians who are having to fight a formidable defensive force and Russians are at a slight disadvantage here!!*


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## coffee_cup

That Guy said:


> I never said anything about winning.
> 
> Lmao, these attempts to attack me, without directly naming or replying to me are hilarious! 🤣🤣



I dont have problem engaging directly.

I know we all have our biases and there is nothing wrong in that. But just be human for a little while. Those people killed in those countries indiscriminantly by carpet bombings also had families, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, father, mother...

From one day to the next, they lost their house in which they have been living all life long. Their schools were gone, their hospitals destroyed and no country would even accept them as refugees.

I am not saying, that you should not support the US or the West, I am just saying be a little human and do not blindly support all their actions.

If Russia is doing wrong, so were they. If Russia is to be sanctioned and prosecuted, so should they be.

That would be a more balanced view.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499772691875876872


----------



## Jalut

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499775832239312900


----------



## alimobin memon

Well tanks are useless or less effective. I hope Pakistan gets a lesson and put less effort in tank induction. Should invest in drones


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## Microsoft

That Guy said:


> LMAO, way to side step your own point, because you realized you didn't read my comment properly.
> 
> This entire thread is a gift that keeps on giving



The real gift is hypocrites pussyfooting real issues (such as funding the Russian invasion by buying their oil and gas) but bottom feeding on an issue about rocket engines. My mistake though I didn't expect such blindness to the hypocrisy that you couldn't go from A -> C without having B spoon feed.

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## uhuru

coffee_cup said:


> I dont have problem engaging directly.
> 
> I know we all have our biases and there is nothing wrong in that. But just be human for a little while. Those people killed in those countries indiscriminantly by carpet bombings also had families, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, father, mother...
> 
> From one day to the next, they lost their house in which they have been living all life long. Their schools were gone, their hospitals destroyed and no country would even accept them as refugees.
> 
> I am not saying, that you should not support the US or the West, I am just saying be a little human and do not blindly support all their actions.
> 
> If Russia is doing wrong, so were they. If Russia is to be sanctioned and prosecuted, so should they be.
> 
> That would be a more balanced view.


Yes rafiki. that is my view point. Neither East or West, we need to stand up as a nations of non-aligned. Since independence the demarcation to divide and conquer has remained by leaders being appointed either as proxies or governers for colonials. Until we all take a stand and demand a complete seperation out of the clutches of the east/west/china pivots and carve our way forward = then only we from third world can make progress.


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

Vergennes said:


> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499750868979261446


How many times do you plan on sharing these pics ?

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## Wood

What do you guys think will happen if Trump rides back into office next election? Will he prove his worth to FSB by unraveling the western disapproval of Putin's action in Ukraine?


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## Battlion25

Wood said:


> What do you guys think will happen if Trump rides back into office next election? Will he prove his worth to FSB by unraveling the western disapproval of Putin's action in Ukraine?



Trump or anyone sitting in office including Biden all tho he enjoys more power then Trump would not be dictating anything or any moves but the deep state..


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## Zibago



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## Wood

Battlion25 said:


> Trump or anyone sitting in office including Biden all tho he enjoys more power then Trump would not be dictating anything or any moves but the deep state..


Biden is a traditional guy. But Trump seems to be a loose cannon


----------



## sur

RescueRanger said:


> Life under the spectre of war:
> View attachment 820789





dBSPL said:


> Using apartments as target practice,
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499757906782216204



Not justifying this at all, but to do a fare analysis, that Russian may have received fire from within these buildings as hinted by some of the images and Russian FM and Putin both have repeated this too that Ukr are setting up weapons among residential areas and that on retreating they damage their own. We have seen Ukr shooting their own who attempted to leave. *Look at the circled bags of sand below *and cannon right next to apartments in linked post:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Is the glorified Islamic history any DIFFERENT? Did the Muslim Kings, Sultans, Caliphs not take the women and children and men as slaves? Did they not loot every single thing in the name of Ghanimah (war booty)? Were Muslims not fighting each other too in wars? Give credit to the West that...



defence.pk





(copied)









Thanks for translating @NotSure :


NotSure said:


> Yeah, he says: There is nobody anymore, *they left immediately*, they are in our ...
> 
> What do you think: Who is they? *Maybe some Ukr. Soliders with a Javelin fetish?* They left left after what?




@1:09+ "Accused of placing military hardware next to residential areas"

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499777381539762177

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## That Guy

Microsoft said:


> The real gift is hypocrites pussyfooting real issues (such as funding the Russian invasion by buying their oil and gas) but bottom feeding on an issue about rocket engines. My mistake though I didn't expect such blindness to the hypocrisy that you couldn't go from A -> C without having B spoon feed.


Lmao, keep proving me right.


----------



## nang2

Wood said:


> Biden is a traditional guy. But Trump seems to be a loose cannon


Maybe one of the reasons why Putin attacked. Nobody likes to mess with a loose cannon. Too unpredictable.

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## That Guy

coffee_cup said:


> I dont have problem engaging directly.
> 
> I know we all have our biases and there is nothing wrong in that. But just be human for a little while. Those people killed in those countries indiscriminantly by carpet bombings also had families, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, father, mother...
> 
> From one day to the next, they lost their house in which they have been living all life long. Their schools were gone, their hospitals destroyed and no country would even accept them as refugees.
> 
> I am not saying, that you should not support the US or the West, I am just saying be a little human and do not blindly support all their actions.
> 
> If Russia is doing wrong, so were they. If Russia is to be sanctioned and prosecuted, so should they be.
> 
> That would be a more balanced view.


When did I support or justify anything or anyone?

I've been clear from the beginning, I'm just glad brown people aren't being killed here.

I don't care who wins or loses.

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## Iron Shrappenel

@dBSPL @Vergennes 
You two are reposting the same tweets again and again. The funny thing is you two are frequently posting the videos of each other. 
Kindly Stop making a mess of the thread.

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## NotSure

dBSPL said:


> Using apartments as target practice,
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499757906782216204


Yeah, he says: There is nobody anymore, *they left immediately*, they are in our ...

What do you think: Who is they? Maybe some Ukr. Soliders with a Javelin fetish? They left left after what?

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## Vergennes

Iron Shrappenel said:


> @dBSPL @Vergennes
> You two are reposting the same tweets again and again. The funny thing is you two are frequently posting the videos of each other.
> Kindly Stop making a mess of the thread.



who are you ?

BTW I went through the last 40 pages and there's only one time I posted a video already posted so please keep your BS and butthurt away from me.

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## Type59

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499777381539762177


Called probing attacks. The best Ukrainian forces are stationed in the North. The city will be surrounded in the future.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499779605082816512


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## Battlion25

Wood said:


> Biden is a traditional guy. But Trump seems to be a loose cannon



They restricted the guy basically to nothing and honestly I don't see him coming back to office.

They considered him an insane individual and treated him like one. His own general called China saying don't worry if he declares war or claims to launch nuclear strikes we have restricted him in fear of triggering the Chinese in going for first strike that is the level he was at

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## LeGenD

coffee_cup said:


> 20+ Years in the poorest country of the world.
> 
> 2 Trillion $ + wasted in a wasteland
> 
> Flattened cities by carpet bombings (cluster bombs, mother of all bombs, depleted uranium and what not)
> 
> Countless attacks on Funerals, Weddings, Kindergartens, Hospitals
> 
> Retreated by installing the same govt they wanted to defeat.
> 
> Not a single person prosecuted against war crimes in ICJ (or whatever is that shyt called)
> 
> And this is victory for those Western mainstream media consumers.
> 
> Simply pathetic on every human level!


Send Latvian army to this poorest country in the world and see how long it will last there. Latvia won't be able to hold a province for a month.

Afghans are simple and hardened people on average. They do not have many possessions to loose. Afghan Taliban had too many hideouts in the region. They knew what they had to do - they made sure that the government installed by NATO will not be able to build solid foundations in different provinces (sabotaging activities and shadow governance). They were patient above all else. They knew that that NATO cannot stay for indefinite period.

As the war continued to drag, the costs of logistics and maintaining a government continued to climb for NATO. The costs exceeded 1 Trillion USD mark eventually.

Some countries might not have much of an army but they can fight very well. Keep this fact in mind.

Back to topic now.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499763642170019846


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## Wood

Battlion25 said:


> They restricted the guy basically to nothing and honestly I don't see him coming back to office.
> 
> They considered him an insane individual and treated him like one. His own general called China saying don't worry if he declares war or claims to launch nuclear strikes we have stricted him in fear of triggering the Chinese in going for first strike that is the level he was at


There is a quite a bit of resentment to Biden right now. I'm not so confident that Biden will get reelected.


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## Battlion25

Wood said:


> There is a quite a bit of resentment to Biden right now. I'm not so confident that Biden will get reelected.



Personally I preferred Trump hopefully he buys the right people to get back in office and he will have alot of backing from the GULF and AIPAC.. He was basically their guy and that is why Biden was bitter to these backing him like Israel and the Gulf as soon as he came to power but he shouldn't have brought that into office and local politics should remain local and one shouldn't bring that into the international arena but I could see them trying everything they can to bring him back to power

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499772691875876872

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## BHAN85

What would happen if Russia blow up a Western weapons shipment to Ukraine in Ukraine land/air space?
would it be used the Article V of NATO?


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499788116609150977

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499789029361000455

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## nang2

Battlion25 said:


> Personally I preferred Trump hopefully he buys the right people to get back in office and he will have alot of backing from the GULF and AIPAC.. He was basically their guy and that is why Biden was bitter to these backing him like Israel and the Gulf as soon as he came to power but he shouldn't have brought that into office and local politics should remain local and one shouldn't bring that into the international arena but I could see them trying everything they can to bring him back to power


I doubt. US is too intoxicated in power. They don't want a president to tell them withdraw.


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## Battlion25

nang2 said:


> I doubt. US is too intoxicated in power. They don't want a president to tell them withdraw.



You doubt he will come back to power?



BHAN85 said:


> What would happen if Russia blow up a Western weapons shipment to Ukraine in Ukraine land/air space?
> would it be used the Article V of NATO?



It depends where it happens if it happens inside Ukraine airspace or inside Ukraine it is all fair game

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499790600802996228

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499791662289141760


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## coffee_cup

LeGenD said:


> Send Latvian army to this poorest country in the world and see how long it will last there. Latvia won't be able to hold a province for a month.
> 
> Afghans are simple and hardened people on average. They do not have many possessions to loose. Afghan Taliban had too many hideouts in the region. They knew what they had to do - they made sure that the government installed by NATO will not be able to build solid foundations in different provinces (sabotaging activities and shadow governance). They were patient above all else. They knew that that NATO cannot stay for indefinite period.
> 
> As the war continued to drag, the costs of logistics and maintaining a government continued to climb for NATO. The costs exceeded 1 Trillion USD mark eventually.
> 
> Some countries might not have much of an army but they can fight very well. Keep this fact in mind.
> 
> Back to topic now.



I want justice, I want those who flattened cities, schools, hospitals be prosecuted. All of them.

Once some of them are made an example of, the next wars will become less probable.

Start from George Soros.

PS: My country is the same as yours.

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## dBSPL

Iron Shrappenel said:


> @dBSPL @Vergennes
> You two are reposting the same tweets again and again. The funny thing is you two are frequently posting the videos of each other.
> Kindly Stop making a mess of the thread.


I've been having a problem with displaying twitter media on the forum lately, if I repost a previously posted videos by some other, please warn me by quoting, I'll delete it immediately. Or you can report it to the Mods.

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## nang2

Battlion25 said:


> You doubt he will come back to power?


Yes, although I wish him to come back to power. I am just more pessimistic.


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

dBSPL said:


> I've been having a problem with displaying twitter media on the forum lately, if I repost a previously posted videos by some other, please warn me by quoting, I'll delete it immediately. Or you can report it to the Mods.


Noted

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## SIPRA

Ukraine can still win this war, if India provides "Phull Sapporrtt".

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## A1Kaid

BHAN85 said:


> What would happen if Russia blow up a Western weapons shipment to Ukraine in Ukraine land/air space?
> would it be used the Article V of NATO?



Article VI provides stipulations for Article V, and according to Article VI the answer is yes. With that said NATO is sending in weapons to Ukraine using private contractors, not uniformed soldiers, and they aren't crossing over the border into Ukraine rather driving up to the west of the Ukrainian border. Russia is mostly focused on Kyiv and everything east of the Dneiper river.



> _Article 6
> 
> “For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:_
> 
> 
> _on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France 2, on the territory of Turkey or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;_
> _on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, *when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force* or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer.”_



Article VI

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## maverick1977

SIPRA said:


> Ukraine can still win this war, if India provides "Phull Sapporrtt".




They already provided best of the best, student soldiers but were not taken seriously.

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## nang2

A1Kaid said:


> Article VI provides stipulations for Article V, and according to Article VI the answer is yes. With that said NATO is sending in weapons to Ukraine using private contractors, not uniformed soldiers, and they aren't crossing over the border into Ukraine rather driving up to the west of the Ukrainian border. Russia is mostly focused on Kyiv and everything east of the Dneiper river.
> 
> 
> 
> Article VI


Actually they can send in uniformed soldiers, just in a different kind of uniforms, and call them volunteer corps. We Chinese did that in Korean war. People shouldn't be too dogmatic if they really want to help.

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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499767657716981767

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## nang2

Titanium100 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499767657716981767


I guess China isn't a part of the world. Maybe Chinese are always considered aliens. We are resident aliens in this world.


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## Titanium100

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> I kindly disagree with the Finland invasion.
> There is nothing special for Russia to gain compared to what it would have to spend of recources.
> 
> Finland neither gives then access to Atlantic warm water ports or a significantly better position in the Baltic Sea, where they already have Kaliningrad and Access via sealane to the south of Finland. They would still be closed off from the Atlantic by Denmark-Sweden straits.
> 
> If Russia were to attack it would be mich easier game with Lithuania, with attack from both Belarus and Kaliningrad. I would say Poland is the major next prize if Russia wanted to go full Soviet mode, but i dont think they want to.



Finland is not only a realistic target but it is a significiant target and not because of sea-ports or warm waters but because of border location. It is a gate-way for incursions against Russia hence the reasons for the invasion being viable security measure against the ring of NATO forming against Russia



nang2 said:


> I guess China isn't a part of the world. Maybe Chinese are always considered aliens. We are resident aliens in this world.



How? Care to elaborate?


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## nang2

Titanium100 said:


> How? Care to elaborate?


The twitter says "Russia vs World". I don't think China is at the stage of "vs" with Russia at this moment.


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## Titanium100

nang2 said:


> The twitter says "Russia vs World". I don't think China is at the stage of "vs" with Russia at this moment.



Oh now I get it because they discounted China from the tweet.. China is currently supporting Russia but they are doing it in smart way....

----------

This painting had me rolling

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499801615229927432

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## Mujahid Memon

When even the former leader of USSR is so afraid of him, one can only imagine how dangerous Putin will be for a common Russian.

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## coffee_cup

Titanium100 said:


> Finland is not only a realistic target but it is a significiant target and not because of sea-ports or warm waters but because of border location. It is a gate-way for incursions against Russia hence the reasons for the invasion being viable security measure against the ring of NATO forming against Russia



Finnish foreign minister has stated, talks about joining NATO is not on agenda.
He further said, in such times opinions of people can be influenced very fast, but we have to make rational decisions.

Something like that.


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## A1Kaid

nang2 said:


> Actually they *can* send in uniformed soldiers, just in a different kind of uniforms, and call them volunteer corps. We Chinese did that in Korean war. People shouldn't be too dogmatic if they really want to help.



They *can* do that, and *could* be doing that. As for what I am aware of is individual European/North American countries using private contractors. Rather than a joint-NATO weapons distribution program. I do suspect they probably are using uninformed soldiers.

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## Iñigo

A neutral Ukraine was beneficial for all: beneficial for Ukrainians, for Russians and for Western Europeans. The only losers were the fanatics in London and Washington.

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## sur

Ukrainians have been killing their own countryperson for years and continue to do so now, as per this French journalist:
One-eyed instigators have been and are blind to that.







Why Russians hit schools? Probably because Ukrainian soldiers take positions inside schools:
And make bunkers in apartment buildings:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500044969469685761





Couple of related posts:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russ...nd-developments.706984/page-560#post-13597312
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russ...nd-developments.706984/page-697#post-13603972



Camera persons says it's Ukrainians hitting apartments - Propaganda machines say it's Russians - Whom to believe?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499916458637156354

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## Titanium100

coffee_cup said:


> Finnish foreign minister has stated, talks about joining NATO is not on agenda.
> He further said, in such times opinions of people can be influenced very fast, but we have to make rational decisions.
> 
> Something like that.



It is on the agenda but even if it is not on the agenda you can't fool the Russians because they have ordered 64 F-35s and why would a small country militarize to that extent? Russia knows what is going on and the reasons Ukraine even got invaded was due to militarizing as Russia knew Ukraine was never gonna be accepted in NATO anyways but they were already defacto members and an extension arm that was militarizing and the same with Finland whos even more of an extension then Ukraine


----------



## nang2

A1Kaid said:


> They *can* do that, and *could* be doing that. As for what I am aware of is individual European/North American countries using private contractors. Rather than a joint-NATO weapons distribution program. I do suspect they probably are using uninformed soldiers.


Private contractors could only prolong the war and hope in the end to wear Russians out. In the process, civillians have to suffer for a long time. But a well organized "volunteer" army could drive Russians out quickly with "volunteer" ground troops armed with the best weapons the west can offer and "volunteer" air force armed with F-35s.

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## lightning F57

Looking through this thread and the Twitter and other news bits,it would seem Russia is getting serious losses, men and equipment.

I'm baffled with Putin, maybe he does not care for lives of his men but his losing the PR war as well. Their forces seem to be pushed back constantly and some of these videos show them just sitting there like ducks ready to be taken out. This looks like an army of amateurs not a professional force.

Like I say its perception but it seems his losing propaganda war big time.


----------



## Piotr

lightning F57 said:


> Looking through this thread and the Twitter and other news bits,it would seem Russia is getting serious losses, men and equipment.
> 
> I'm baffled with Putin, maybe he does not care for lives of his men but his losing the PR war as well. Their forces seem to be pushed back constantly and some of these videos show them just sitting there like ducks ready to be taken out. This looks like an army of amateurs not a professional force.
> 
> Like I say its perception but it seems his losing propaganda war big time.



USA and US-founded regime in Kabul were also "wining" on Twitter. This is how it ended:

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## Titanium100

PakAlp said:


> I doubt they will go further than Ukraine but your comment on East Orthodox alliance could come true. Russia has been slowly trying to promote orthodoxy and disagree with the west extreme liberal/secular ideology, they have no choice aswell, if Russia follows the west then over the years Russia will become the west sidekick. The west ideology is very attractive, they promote it through Hollywood, media, education system and slowly its creeping all over the world and conquering. I've met many European and they are religious and conservative, family type of people.



Bookmark it his going to move on Finland as soon as this operation in Ukraine concludes which will be around June-july and move on Finland around October or December-January.

You may ask why? Because his sanctioned and has nothing to lose at this current stage hence no better time to deal with them will come again then currently and then use Sweden as bargaining chip to re-negotiate to remove the sanctions while taking out two security issues back to back in UKR and FL and all sanctions lifted he can rest for decades after that.

Also note Finland is getting cocky behind the scenes their fate is sealed either way

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499796844871925764


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## Oom

Titanium100 said:


> Bookmark it his going to move on Finland as soon as this operation in Ukraine concludes which will be around June-july and move on Finland around October or December-January.
> 
> You may ask why? Because his sanctioned and has nothing to lose at this current stage hence no better time to deal with them will come again then currently and then use Sweden as bargaining chip to re-negotiate to remove the sanctions while taking out two security issues back to back and all sanctions lifted he can rest for decades after that.
> 
> Also note Finland is getting cocky behind the scenes their fate is sealed either way
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499796844871925764


Why would be invade Finland in the dead of winter. It’s impassable during that period.

I think they have learned a lesson from the winter war.


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## Titanium100

Oom said:


> Why would be invade Finland in the dead of winter. It’s impassable during that period.



It is favourable For tanks and heavy equipment movements

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## sur

sur said:


> More like flaring rather than shelling.
> 
> *These are just flares*.
> 
> Another flop propaganda.
> 
> View attachment 820632
> 
> 
> View attachment 820631



Flares in *parking lots*.

(1) = Security Check Post. (not yet constructed in 1st image)
(2) = Road & green belt.
(3) = L-shape Perimeter inside L-shaped wall.
(4) = *Flare#1* (not a shell) falling down *slowly* in parking lot (not constructed yet at the time of 1st image). Flare diminishes momentarily due to wet parking lot, then heat of flare evaporated water & it glows bigger again.
(5) = *Flare#2* burning beside the light pole in parking lot.
(6) = Grass lawn.
(7) = Diagonal foot path.


coordinates = 47.506099102725656, 34.588322377408794





















https://www.rt.com/russia/551210-russian-military-nuclear-station-incident/



*@3:39*+ Fire from ground going up and hitting the "Training Center" adjacent to the plant. Especially *@3:45-46* & @*4:08*+ bullets fired 2 O'clock from the main fire hit two other buildings.

















































Point is, bullets are being fired from one building closer to reactors towards other two buildings further away from reactors.
From news it may be that Russians had already taken control of plant, but there were Ukrainians in this what's being referred to as a "Training Building" and they fired upon Russians TOWARDS THE DIRECTION of reactors. Russians responded by fire which is going away from reactors.

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499811685586120713




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499803976983797761

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499806148265979907


Vergennes said:


> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499811685586120713
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499803976983797761




None of the corpses have a beard. Therefore, not Chechnyans. .


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## LeGenD

Piotr said:


> USA and US-founded regime in Kabul were also "wining" on Twitter. This is how it ended:
> View attachment 820838


This was Joe Biden's call and doing.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Three of Putin’s commanders killed on frontline​








Kyiv vows to ‘hit back harder’ if Putin attacks Kakhovka dam - LIVE


Moscow has resorted to the plot because “nuclear blackmail did not work”, the office of President Zelensky claims




www.independent.co.uk





Three Russian commanders have been killed after moving towards the frontline in a suspected bid to restore momentum to Vladimir Putin’s flagging invasion of Ukraine, Western sources have claimed.

Ukraine still has ‘significant majority’ of military aircraft available, US defence official says​While Ukraine has suffered military losses in the air, experts are surprised that Russia’s far larger military did not quickly destroy Ukraine’s air force and gain domination over the country’s skies as Vladimir Putin launched his invasion, allowing his country’s ground forces to press ahead unimpeded.
“The Ukrainians still have a significant majority of their air combat power available to them, both fixed-wing and rotary wing as well as unmanned systems and surface-to-air systems,” a US defence official speaking on condition of anonymity told Reuters.

( not named yet - will come out in a day or so - but does suggest - russia's communucation lines are totally hacked - and these commanders were specifically targetted to be killed ).


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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499816840205602816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499817377952899079


----------



## That Guy

Piotr said:


> USA and US-founded regime in Kabul were also "wining" on Twitter. This is how it ended:
> View attachment 820838


What? That's absolutely not true. The ANA and US were absolutely getting thrashed on twitter by pro-taliban accounts. Even the media was coming out and predicting the ANA was on the verge of collapsing.


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## Type59

People are confused about how bloody war can be. Russia is losing men and material at a fast rate, but have captured territory and crippled Ukraine as a state.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499704531399102469

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Anti-aircraft missiles Germany offered Ukraine don't work


Soviet-era missiles were declared obsolete in 2014 and have become corroded in storage




www.telegraph.co.uk

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## LeGenD

Total count of Russian strikes in Ukraine involving use of both cruise and ballistic missiles have exceeded 500 by now. These strikes involve use of following types:

3M14 Kalibr LACM
Iskander-K LACM (Hypersonic)
Kh-101 ALCM
Iskander-M SRBM
Tochka-U SRBM

LACM = Land Attack Cruise Missile
ALCM = Air Launched Cruise Missile
SRBM = Short Range Ballistic Missile



lightning F57 said:


> Looking through this thread and the Twitter and other news bits,it would seem Russia is getting serious losses, men and equipment.
> 
> I'm baffled with Putin, maybe he does not care for lives of his men but his losing the PR war as well. Their forces seem to be pushed back constantly and some of these videos show them just sitting there like ducks ready to be taken out. This looks like an army of amateurs not a professional force.
> 
> Like I say its perception but it seems his losing propaganda war big time.


Today - Russian forces lost 2 jet fighters, 1 helicopter, and also suffered losses in Dobre. Ukrainian forces retook control of Kulbakino airfield as well.

Ukrainians continue to surprise all.


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## jamal18

dbc said:


> what you didn't see in the movie *Black Hawk down* is that there were two AC130 Spectre gunships in orbit over Mogadishu that day. If the US military had no regard for civilian losses they could have flattened several city blocks that day and killed tens of thousands of people. what you didn't see in the movie is that the Italians a NATO ally leaked news of US plans to Farrah Aidid - so the blood of US Rangers is on their hands.
> 
> If the US Military was truly unshackled like the Russian military is in Ukraine we wouldn't be having this conversation about Somalia or Afghanistan,





Ali_Baba said:


> Three of Putin’s commanders killed on frontline​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kyiv vows to ‘hit back harder’ if Putin attacks Kakhovka dam - LIVE
> 
> 
> Moscow has resorted to the plot because “nuclear blackmail did not work”, the office of President Zelensky claims
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Three Russian commanders have been killed after moving towards the frontline in a suspected bid to restore momentum to Vladimir Putin’s flagging invasion of Ukraine, Western sources have claimed.
> 
> Ukraine still has ‘significant majority’ of military aircraft available, US defence official says​While Ukraine has suffered military losses in the air, experts are surprised that Russia’s far larger military did not quickly destroy Ukraine’s air force and gain domination over the country’s skies as Vladimir Putin launched his invasion, allowing his country’s ground forces to press ahead unimpeded.
> “The Ukrainians still have a significant majority of their air combat power available to them, both fixed-wing and rotary wing as well as unmanned systems and surface-to-air systems,” a US defence official speaking on condition of anonymity told Reuters.
> 
> ( not named yet - will come out in a day or so - but does suggest - russia's communucation lines are totally hacked - and these commanders were specifically targetted to be killed ).


There's a '40 mile' convoy spread out north of Kiev that has not been attacked for days.

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## nangyale

Mujahid Memon said:


> When even the former leader of USSR is so afraid of him, one can only imagine how dangerous Putin will be for a common Russian.


I just watched it and didn't find any fear.
What are you basing your theory on?


----------



## Piotr

LeGenD said:


> This was Joe Biden's call and doing.



In my opinion with or without Biden US was going to lose war against Afghanistan.
And my point was that all news about military operation in Donbas and the Ukraine should be taken with a bucket of salt.

There are a lot of fakes:

7 FAKE NEWS stories coming out of Ukraine​Kit Knightly​
We’re only three days into Russia’s military operation in Ukraine, and yet the propaganda cogs are whirring fast as lightning, churning out “news”, opinion and content grist for the media mill.

In just the last 48 hours dozens of stories, images, narratives and videos have circulated as being taken from the fighting in Ukraine, a huge percentage of which are fake.

Now, some of it could be attributed to misunderstandings, mistaken identity, misattribution…but many and most are likely deliberate deceptions designed to provoke a response. Let’s dive right in.

1. “The Ghost of Kiev”​
Early Friday morning it was reported that a single Ukrainian plane, a MiG-29, was patrolling the skies above Kiev. The English speaking press called the unnamed pilot “The Ghost of Kiev”, and claimed he had downed 6 Russian jets in air-to-air combat in less than 2 days, making him an official Fighter Ace, and probably one of the fastest to ever earn that title.

The trouble is there is almost no evidence this happened at all. To quote Newsweek:




> There is zero evidence the “Ghost of Kyiv” exists”.



Neither side can confirm Russia has lost six planes in total, let alone to one man inside a single day. And a video alleged to be “the Ghost” in combat – shared by the Ukrainian Armed Forces – is confirmed to _actually_ be footage taken from a video game.


Nevertheless, he already has his own Wikipedia page. A testament to how fast a lie can move while the truth is putting its boots on.


2. “Russian planes flying over Kiev”​
A lot of people have been sharing a short video of Russian planes allegedly flying low over the city of Kiev. The Times used it a still from it in their story _“Will sanctions stop a Russian shell?”_:






The problem with that is it’s not Kiev, it’s Moscow. And it’s not today, it’s two years ago. It’s footage of what is likely a rehearsal for the 2020 Victory Day Parade flyover.







3. “Zelenskiy visiting the troops”​
Possibly no politician in history has had a PR makeover quite as fast as Vlodomyr Zelenskiy. Last week he was just some guy, this week he’s a war hero, there’s talk of building statues of the man. A (not at all staged) “leaked” phone call had him turning down the US offer of an airlift to safety.


Twitter is dotted with people sharing photos of him in combat fatigues, comparing him favourably to Trump and Trudeau and asking _“what other leaders would fight alongside their troops?”_




> This is President Zelensky. He is a brave man fighting shoulder to shoulder with his people. This man was blackmailed and extorted by Trump, who is a corrupt criminal and a coward. So yes, if I have to pay more for a gallon of gas, democracy is worth it. #UkraineStrong pic.twitter.com/4J8x8FnTZH
> — Danielle Candela (@DanielleCandela) February 25, 2022






But the problem with that is the photos are all almost a year old, taken when he visited the troops last April:





4. “Luhansk power station explosion”​
Early on in the confrontation, this video started doing the rounds on social media:




> Luhansk power plant in Ukraine pic.twitter.com/4LaI1uRxCe
> — Oak Redhammer (@OakRedhammer) February 24, 2022






The video went viral, receiving 100,000s of views. Hundreds of accounts shared it, even major news networks used it, all claiming it shows a power station in Luhansk exploding after being hit with Russian missiles.


It does not, it’s a chemical plant exploding in Tianjin, China in 2015.


5. Video games. again.​
This footage, claiming to show Ukrainian ground forces downing Russian aircraft, also went viral recently, even appearing on Spanish television news:





…It’s from the video game ARMA 3.


6. “Russian warship go **** yourself”​
This was the first major propaganda narrative following Russia’s advance onto Ukrainian territory. Allegedly leaked audio showed Ukrainian border guards on tiny Snake Island in the black sea communicating with a Russian warship. Upon being told to surrender, the guards say _“Russian warship go **** yourself”_.


The Western press reported that all 13 of the men were killed, and the Ukrainian government released a statement saying they would all be awarded posthumous honors.


However, while the supposedly fallen heroes were being canonised all over the western world, Russia was reporting that they had not been killed at all, but taken alive and unharmed back to the mainland.


A story both the press and the Ukrainian government have since reluctantly admitted is likely true.


7. Syrian drone strikes footage​
Another video doing the rounds, and again shared by official Ukrainian accounts, was drone footage supposedly showing the destruction of a column of Russian vehicles.





It’s actually footage of a Turkish drone strike in Syria from 2020.


Meanwhile, other accounts were sharing footage of combat from Libya or Israeli bombardments of Gaza under the hashtag #StandWithUkraine. Middle East Eye has compiled a list.


It’s somewhat beautiful irony that so many of the clips prompting outrage in Western liberals actually come from wars their governments started.


There we have it, seven stories about the war in Ukraine that are demonstrably fake, and that’s just the tip of the iceberg.


There’s tons of other fakes out there, not to mention fakes of fakes designed to discredit doubters or just spread chaos.


Ultimately, it’s all a timely reminder that propaganda is at its most potent at times where the news is moving fast and people are feeling emotional.


That is WHY the media whips up fear, anxiety and hatred, because people in that emotional state are less likely to think critically.


It should go without saying that this is equally true for both sides. We shouldn’t blindly accept claims from the Russian side, simply because we know NATO lies. Both sides propagandize, and one-eyed scepticism is only a different kind of bias.


In short, if you see something designed to provoke an emotional reaction, don’t let it. Never get swept along in the narrative, always hold yourself back, keep calm and ask rational questions.


Withhold belief, demand facts. It’s the only way to keep your mind free.

https://off-guardian.org/2022/02/27/7-fake-news-stories-coming-out-of-ukraine/

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## nangyale

Titanium100 said:


> It is on the agenda but even if it is not on the agenda you can't fool the Russians because they have ordered 64 F-35s and why would a small country militarize to that extent? Russia knows what is going on and the reasons Ukraine even got invaded was due to militarizing as Russia knew Ukraine was never gonna be accepted in NATO anyways but they were already defacto members and an extension arm that was militarizing and the same with Finland whos even more of an extension then Ukraine


May be the Fins got the message and are mending their ways.



nang2 said:


> Private contractors could only prolong the war and hope in the end to wear Russians out. In the process, civillians have to suffer for a long time. But a well organized "volunteer" army could drive Russians out quickly with "volunteer" ground troops armed with the best weapons the west can offer and "volunteer" air force armed with F-35s.


And where they will be flying the F35s from?
Any airbase that's used will in itself become a target for incoming Iskanders.

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## nang2

nangyale said:


> And where they will be flying the F35s from?
> Any airbase that's used will in itself become a target for incoming Iskanders.


Poland. When Chinese Air Force (newly formed) operated over Korea, their planes were stationed within China.


----------



## nangyale

Ali_Baba said:


> Three of Putin’s commanders killed on frontline​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kyiv vows to ‘hit back harder’ if Putin attacks Kakhovka dam - LIVE
> 
> 
> Moscow has resorted to the plot because “nuclear blackmail did not work”, the office of President Zelensky claims
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Three Russian commanders have been killed after moving towards the frontline in a suspected bid to restore momentum to Vladimir Putin’s flagging invasion of Ukraine, Western sources have claimed.
> 
> Ukraine still has ‘significant majority’ of military aircraft available, US defence official says​While Ukraine has suffered military losses in the air, experts are surprised that Russia’s far larger military did not quickly destroy Ukraine’s air force and gain domination over the country’s skies as Vladimir Putin launched his invasion, allowing his country’s ground forces to press ahead unimpeded.
> “The Ukrainians still have a significant majority of their air combat power available to them, both fixed-wing and rotary wing as well as unmanned systems and surface-to-air systems,” a US defence official speaking on condition of anonymity told Reuters.
> 
> ( not named yet - will come out in a day or so - but does suggest - russia's communucation lines are totally hacked - and these commanders were specifically targetted to be killed ).


The independent is out doing itself with it's propaganda blitz. 
At this rate Russia will run out of Generals before they even call their first draft.



nang2 said:


> Poland. When Chinese Air Force (newly formed) operated over Korea, their plane were stationed within China.


Poland is no China.
The Russians can simply flaten the place in no time.


----------



## nang2

nangyale said:


> Poland is no China.
> The Russians can simply flaten the place in no time.


I doubt of it from the look of what they have achieved in Ukraine.


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499558580692811776

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## nangyale

nang2 said:


> I doubt of it from the look of what they have achieved in Ukraine.





nang2 said:


> I doubt of it from the look of what they have achieved in Ukraine.


Russians have been treating the Ukrainians with kid gloves, there won't be any such qualms when it comes to Poland.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499821283215024129

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499823752661680133


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499801211293224960

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## nang2

nangyale said:


> Russians have been treating the Ukrainians with kid gloves, there won't be any such qualms when it comes to Poland.


Well, then they have to face the entire NATO.


----------



## nangyale

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499558580692811776


I won't blame the average American for this.
It's the techno-feudalism that is muzzling all independent voices.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499817949519093760

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## NotSure

I think the nobel price in medicine goes this year to putin for winning over the Coronavirus. He kicked omicrons *** literally out of the headlines in all western media.

Few weeks ago our Karl "Angstminister" Lauterbach and his storys about the corona virus were the top headlines in all media.

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## nangyale

nang2 said:


> Well, then they have to face the entire NATO.


Not gonna happen.
If Nato had balls for such a war they would have joined in already.


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## Iron Shrappenel

nangyale said:


> Not gonna happen.
> If Nato had balls for such a war they would have joined in already.


More than Balls it has to do with Nukes... Nobody wants Armageddon

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## pkuser2k12

*Telegram app the so called alternative to "evil" whats app for privacy and freedom of speech*

*I wonder when the other other alternative to whats app and telegram Signal app will do the same*




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499770680237248512

Reactions: Love Love:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499818135159033859


----------



## nang2

pkuser2k12 said:


> *Telegram app the so called alternative to "evil" whats app for privacy and freedom of speech
> 
> I wonder when the other other alternative to whats app and telegram Signal app will do the same*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499770680237248512


Well, they think they are in war so the freedom is the first thing to sacrifice.


----------



## nangyale

Iron Shrappenel said:


> More than Balls it has to do with Nukes... Nobody wants Armageddon


Sure sure.
Call it whatever, my point remains there won't be any airforce coming to the defence of neo-nazis.


----------



## Zibago

jamahir said:


> How can you judge like that ? You are just succumbing to misogynist propagandists.


From Amar ALi Jan owner of billion rs Nayab Garden real estate to western puppet Nighat Dad its full of fifth columnists


jamahir said:


> What does "anti-Trump women" mean ?


There was a woman march in US that was mainly used to pressurize Trump but as soon as it became critical of Israel


That Guy said:


> What? That's absolutely not true. The ANA and US were absolutely getting thrashed on twitter by pro-taliban accounts. Even the media was coming out and predicting the ANA was on the verge of collapsing.


Even in 2013 everyone knew that ANA was nothing more than a gang of hash smoking pedos


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499824103452205062


----------



## Zibago

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499824103452205062


Did the Americans just prank called Russia?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## sur

How to access RT.com​
If you can’t get news from RT due to government restrictions, here are some alternative ways to access our content

Serious attempts have been made in Western nations to silence RT, following Russia’s military offensive in Ukraine. The EU Commission has given regulators in the bloc’s nations powers to ban the media outlet. If you’ve faced difficulties accessing RT’s content due to those restrictions, here are some steps you can take to bypass them.

*1*. If you’re reading RT on your smartphone, you can *use our Android app*, which can be downloaded via this link.

*2*. On your PC, you can *use the Tor browser*, which can be downloaded here. RT’s website address in Tor remains the same: www.rt.com. If Tor doesn’t work for you, or is unavailable via regular means, you can resolve this issue by sending an empty email to gettor@torproject.com and you will be sent the necessary link. 

*3*. Another way of circumventing restrictions is to *use the Psiphon censorship-bypass tool*, which can be downloaded for Windows, Android, and other systems. Alternatively, you can use a VPN service of your choice. (Windows download here, direct Android download here, and other options here).

*4*. You can also stay in touch with RT *through Telegram by subscribing* to RT’s soon-to-be-reborn channel there.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499817680408301581


----------



## Titanium100

Mariupol in early stage ruin


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499832657911468032

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## The SC

Zibago said:


> Did the Americans just prank called Russia?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499817748465172480


----------



## Trango Towers

That Guy said:


> Lmao. You said they got their asses handed to them. The numbers suggest that the Americans just lost interest.


And are wars won simply by how many you kill? What a stupid thing to say?

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499815379828457473

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499822889608044547

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499816861369872384

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499834025774653441


----------



## Mujahid Memon



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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499836418872520713

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499837583890673665

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499817626339627013


----------



## beast89

NotSure said:


> This time it was not the ghost of kiev?


could be this guy

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## A1Kaid

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/03/04/ukraine-russia-siege-tactics-mariupol/



Russia set to capture Mariupol, this will connect Crimea to Donbas region which also has a coastline w/the Black sea. Kharkiv also under siege and only matter of time the city is taken by Russia. Kyiv will probably be taken next week.


----------



## Wood




----------



## Madni Bappa

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499818135159033859


She agreed with countries least dependant on Russian energy lmao 😂


----------



## AsianLion

15 Nuclear Power plants in Ukraine:

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## A1Kaid

beast89 said:


> could be this guy
> View attachment 820856



This is obviously fake, and the photo looks like it was taken in America. Apartments and homes are not built like that in Kyiv.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499813301571801091


----------



## pkuser2k12



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## Pappa Alpha

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499834025774653441


How to turn your country into Afghanistan 101.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499809104923185157

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## Madni Bappa

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499817680408301581


What the handcuffs for man sheet lmao 😂


----------



## Wergeland 2.0

pkuser2k12 said:


> *Telegram app the so called alternative to "evil" whats app for privacy and freedom of speech
> 
> I wonder when the other other alternative to whats app and telegram Signal app will do the same*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499770680237248512



Telegram, Whatsapp, Signal, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Reddit and so on. These are all US government controlled cooporations in every way the East India Company was Imperial UK controll.

AI algorithms are used to create posts, likes and users, that magnify the US government narrative. Things as like and upvotes are totally AI generated to give the impression of popular opinion and then rest is a snowball effect because humans are flock animals.

If countries outside US block these media platforms completely, the US softpower will diminish automatically. Thats why Russia and China to a large extent has their indiginous social media platforms.

The main power lies with google, who can at will direct several billion search results every single day.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499841584380186635

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499735002313015300

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## TheNoob

Things are very dire.


----------



## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499814677232107525


----------



## Wergeland 2.0

Many of the top users that frequent different online social media platforms are in fact bots.
AI generated literary texts cannot be distingushed from a normal human written texts. The technology is so advanced that one cannot distinguish reality from fake or fiction.


----------



## beast89

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499801211293224960


trying to blur out pic of Bandera in his office

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## RescueRanger

Twitter and Facebook is now banned in Russia with access to instragramme blocked.


----------



## The SC



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## beast89

A1Kaid said:


> This is obviously fake, and the photo looks like it was taken in America. Apartments and homes are not built like that in Kyiv.


its a joke, Ukarian media was creating many heroes so it spawned memes

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## RescueRanger

Can I just make one observation: we have seen such bombastic Russian blood and bone and images of scrap metal littering the streets of Ukraine.

And still the Russian military advances, creeps forward and gains territory. 

in this I am yet to see a single image of Ukrainian (military) casualties and losses on any independent source (except handles and telegram which be people will say is propaganda).

So ask yourself- yes the Russians are taking hits and images are coming in thick and fast- but where are the images from the Ukrainian side?

I honestly fear that the losses on the Ukrainian side are equally disturbing if not higher.

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## beast89

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499809104923185157
> View attachment 820862


Went to sleep with Ukraine urging a no fly zone to prevent a nuclear disaster, as expected no chernobyl 2.0 the next day.



RescueRanger said:


> Can I just make one observation: we have seen such bombastic Russian blood and bone and images of scrap metal littering the streets of Ukraine.
> 
> And still the Russian military advances, creeps for are, in this I am yet to see a single image of Ukrainian casualties and losses on any independent source (except handles and telegram which be people will say is propaganda).
> 
> So ask yourself- yes the Russians are taking hits and images are coming in thick and fast- but where are the images from the Ukrainian side?
> 
> I honestly fear that the losses on the Ukrainian side are equally disturbing if not higher.


Like the syrian war, the underdogs do more propaganda. In syria it was to show their backers keep sending the funds victory is nearly here.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499848827661996033

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## TheNoob

RescueRanger said:


> Can I just make one observation: we have seen such bombastic Russian blood and bone and images of scrap metal littering the streets of Ukraine.
> 
> And still the Russian military advances, creeps forward and gains territory.
> 
> in this I am yet to see a single image of Ukrainian (military) casualties and losses on any independent source (except handles and telegram which be people will say is propaganda).
> 
> So ask yourself- yes the Russians are taking hits and images are coming in thick and fast- but where are the images from the Ukrainian side?
> 
> I honestly fear that the losses on the Ukrainian side are equally disturbing if not higher.



this is the thing that is bothering me here. 
And all the shills are adhering and finding it all normal because Russia bad. (in and out of forums)

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## TNT

gambit said:


> But Russia made a *WRITTEN* promise not to attack Ukraine if Ukraine give up 1700 nuclear warheads.
> 
> 
> Zelensky maybe a comedian, but Poutine is the joke.



And that WRITTEN agreement becomes void when Ukraine joins NATO and paves the way to deploy NATO nuclear weapons right next door.


----------



## RescueRanger

beast89 said:


> Went to sleep with Ukraine urging a no fly zone to prevent a nuclear disaster, as expected no chernobyl 2.0
> 
> 
> Like they syrian war, the underdogs do more propaganda. In syria it was to show their backers keep sending the funds victory is nearly here


Yes exactly — and I don’t put on airs or pretend to know everything but this is a genuine observation I’ve made.

I have a LOT of images from both the Ukrainian and Russian side (via WhatsApp and Telegram) but I’d like to see it on an independent source neutral to either side — but all you see there is the same regurgitation.

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## coffee_cup

OMG, is it really him? Zelensky?😳

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499835199131107329


----------



## gambit

Madni Bappa said:


> C'mon your history is filled with wild witch hunts.
> Native Americans
> British
> French
> Canadians
> Native Americans
> Black Slaves
> Southern White Slave owning States
> Spanish American Wars
> Philippines
> 
> Also you never answered why almost every war going back to Spanish American war conveniently has USN war ship or submarine that gets attacked and war ensues?
> 
> When this didn't work. You used the "white man's burden" dogma.
> 
> Other than this most of the wars I listed had some sort of lie to manufacture war. The American war of Independence and the civil war being slight exceptions.
> 
> Texas/US Mexican war was also manufactured on lies. Lie that basically alleged the Mexicans came into Texas and attacked American whities. While the American whities had set up a fiefdom on Texas which was Mexican territory. Kinda like Jewish settlers in Falastine(Palestine).
> 
> You are experts at manufacturing war based on lies. If you study something more deeper and meaningful other than sophomore year common core U.S history. That portrays everything as a bed of roses.
> 
> Your true nature is exposed by what you did to Native Americans. And what the British did to every Native nation to wherever they went "civilizing" the people.


Yes, am sure that those who fled your countries, whatever they are, thought of those events from US history before they made their decisions to take the trip to the US. It looks you guys are doing to poor job of disseminating these facts, buddy. They do not look to be made up. Am sure they in wikipedia, so they must be true. Then why do so many people continue to come to the US? No one forced them to adopt the America idea. Who holds a gun to their heads?

Ultimately, this is about the contest of ideas. Any country is its own idea.

So between the competition of the Pakistan idea vs the America idea, how many Pakistanis are in the US versus how many Americans in Pakistan and for what reasons? Can you answer that? You criticize US while ignoring/missing the irony that *YOU* are in the US living the good life provided by the America idea. Here is the brutal truth: That *YOU* are in the US mean at *YOUR* level, the America idea won, and the same goes for every Pakistani living in the US and refused to return to Pakistan.

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## LeGenD

Piotr said:


> In my opinion with or without Biden US was going to lose war against Afghanistan.
> And my point was that all news about military operation in Donbas and the Ukraine should be taken with a bucket of salt.
> 
> There are a lot of fakes:
> 
> 7 FAKE NEWS stories coming out of Ukraine​Kit Knightly​
> We’re only three days into Russia’s military operation in Ukraine, and yet the propaganda cogs are whirring fast as lightning, churning out “news”, opinion and content grist for the media mill.
> 
> In just the last 48 hours dozens of stories, images, narratives and videos have circulated as being taken from the fighting in Ukraine, a huge percentage of which are fake.
> 
> Now, some of it could be attributed to misunderstandings, mistaken identity, misattribution…but many and most are likely deliberate deceptions designed to provoke a response. Let’s dive right in.
> 
> 1. “The Ghost of Kiev”​
> Early Friday morning it was reported that a single Ukrainian plane, a MiG-29, was patrolling the skies above Kiev. The English speaking press called the unnamed pilot “The Ghost of Kiev”, and claimed he had downed 6 Russian jets in air-to-air combat in less than 2 days, making him an official Fighter Ace, and probably one of the fastest to ever earn that title.
> 
> The trouble is there is almost no evidence this happened at all. To quote Newsweek:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neither side can confirm Russia has lost six planes in total, let alone to one man inside a single day. And a video alleged to be “the Ghost” in combat – shared by the Ukrainian Armed Forces – is confirmed to _actually_ be footage taken from a video game.
> 
> 
> Nevertheless, he already has his own Wikipedia page. A testament to how fast a lie can move while the truth is putting its boots on.
> 
> 
> 2. “Russian planes flying over Kiev”​
> A lot of people have been sharing a short video of Russian planes allegedly flying low over the city of Kiev. The Times used it a still from it in their story _“Will sanctions stop a Russian shell?”_:
> 
> View attachment 820846
> 
> The problem with that is it’s not Kiev, it’s Moscow. And it’s not today, it’s two years ago. It’s footage of what is likely a rehearsal for the 2020 Victory Day Parade flyover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. “Zelenskiy visiting the troops”​
> Possibly no politician in history has had a PR makeover quite as fast as Vlodomyr Zelenskiy. Last week he was just some guy, this week he’s a war hero, there’s talk of building statues of the man. A (not at all staged) “leaked” phone call had him turning down the US offer of an airlift to safety.
> 
> 
> Twitter is dotted with people sharing photos of him in combat fatigues, comparing him favourably to Trump and Trudeau and asking _“what other leaders would fight alongside their troops?”_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But the problem with that is the photos are all almost a year old, taken when he visited the troops last April:
> 
> View attachment 820847
> 
> 4. “Luhansk power station explosion”​
> Early on in the confrontation, this video started doing the rounds on social media:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The video went viral, receiving 100,000s of views. Hundreds of accounts shared it, even major news networks used it, all claiming it shows a power station in Luhansk exploding after being hit with Russian missiles.
> 
> 
> It does not, it’s a chemical plant exploding in Tianjin, China in 2015.
> 
> 
> 5. Video games. again.​
> This footage, claiming to show Ukrainian ground forces downing Russian aircraft, also went viral recently, even appearing on Spanish television news:
> 
> View attachment 820848
> 
> …It’s from the video game ARMA 3.
> 
> 
> 6. “Russian warship go **** yourself”​
> This was the first major propaganda narrative following Russia’s advance onto Ukrainian territory. Allegedly leaked audio showed Ukrainian border guards on tiny Snake Island in the black sea communicating with a Russian warship. Upon being told to surrender, the guards say _“Russian warship go **** yourself”_.
> 
> 
> The Western press reported that all 13 of the men were killed, and the Ukrainian government released a statement saying they would all be awarded posthumous honors.
> 
> 
> However, while the supposedly fallen heroes were being canonised all over the western world, Russia was reporting that they had not been killed at all, but taken alive and unharmed back to the mainland.
> 
> 
> A story both the press and the Ukrainian government have since reluctantly admitted is likely true.
> 
> 
> 7. Syrian drone strikes footage​
> Another video doing the rounds, and again shared by official Ukrainian accounts, was drone footage supposedly showing the destruction of a column of Russian vehicles.
> 
> View attachment 820849
> 
> It’s actually footage of a Turkish drone strike in Syria from 2020.
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, other accounts were sharing footage of combat from Libya or Israeli bombardments of Gaza under the hashtag #StandWithUkraine. Middle East Eye has compiled a list.
> 
> 
> It’s somewhat beautiful irony that so many of the clips prompting outrage in Western liberals actually come from wars their governments started.
> 
> 
> There we have it, seven stories about the war in Ukraine that are demonstrably fake, and that’s just the tip of the iceberg.
> 
> 
> There’s tons of other fakes out there, not to mention fakes of fakes designed to discredit doubters or just spread chaos.
> 
> 
> Ultimately, it’s all a timely reminder that propaganda is at its most potent at times where the news is moving fast and people are feeling emotional.
> 
> 
> That is WHY the media whips up fear, anxiety and hatred, because people in that emotional state are less likely to think critically.
> 
> 
> It should go without saying that this is equally true for both sides. We shouldn’t blindly accept claims from the Russian side, simply because we know NATO lies. Both sides propagandize, and one-eyed scepticism is only a different kind of bias.
> 
> 
> In short, if you see something designed to provoke an emotional reaction, don’t let it. Never get swept along in the narrative, always hold yourself back, keep calm and ask rational questions.
> 
> 
> Withhold belief, demand facts. It’s the only way to keep your mind free.
> 
> https://off-guardian.org/2022/02/27/7-fake-news-stories-coming-out-of-ukraine/


Bro, these contents were discussed in this thread before but thanks. 

I have posted authentic information all along. 😉

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## gambit

TNT said:


> And that WRITTEN agreement becomes void when Ukraine joins NATO and paves the way to deploy NATO nuclear weapons right next door.


Russia made that *WRITTEN* promise before 2008 when Ukraine was in possession of 1700 nuclear warheads. Can *YOU* even find that doc?


----------



## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499835199131107329


That’s already known it’s he main ground line of communication for both refuges and aid (lethal, non lethal and humanitarian).


----------



## Madni Bappa

What the collective white West is doing to Russia is very very concerning. It will not effect Putin or Russian military. But it is making lives of common Russians miserable. There are reports of Russian who live in US or EU being beaten, harassed, businesses being spray painted like jews in Nazi Germany, shops being burnt and children at school being bullied.

Shouldn't the world have done the same to US and NATO when they were going around destroying entire countries and killing millions?

I don't think we've seen such a heavy hand being brought down on anyone else recently.

Mind you we're seeing a lot of anti Russian tropes resurfacing that used to be there in Soviet times. Essentially McCarthyism 2.0. Especially when the collective white West could have made Russia a partner. They were more than willing. But if you treat someone who is willing to compromise with you with humiliation. Then naturally result will be Putin.

This gives a glimpse how these countries will operate once Dajjal gets here.



Sorry if I offend you by posting something even vaguely Islamic. On a forum for a country that is 90% muslim.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499830088803794946

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## coffee_cup

gambit said:


> Russia made that *WRITTEN* promise before 2008 when Ukraine was in possession of 1700 nuclear warheads. Can *YOU* even find that doc?



Can someone post miles long list of *WRITTEN* agreements, which the USA has violated till now.

Please make sure to add *WRITTEN* to those. Or else they dont qualify.

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## gambit

jamahir said:


> Give the choice to this homeless American person if he wants to live in Cuba or North Korea or pre-2011 Libya where housing was / is provided by the system or healthcare and education was / is free and water was an untaxable human right and such things :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those Cubans who fled Cuba to USA, they are tolerated by the American establishment even if they indulge in regular crimes because they can be used by CIA to sabotage and subvert Cuba.


What/who is preventing Cuba or NKR from trying to convince their ideas are superior to the America idea? Do they not have newspaper? Printing? Writing? Technical experts?

The US is not perfect. Never said we are perfect. But the US is a great country and the American people is a great people. You do not have to be perfect in order to be great. In fact, if you are perfect you cannot be great because 'greatness' imply you exceeded an expectation or jumped over a bar that is beyond most reach. Perfection is the nth standard that no one can reach. So when people looks at the America idea, they do not see perfection but only greatness, so many of them booked the next liner passage to America. In the end, *YOU* lose this contest of ideas.


----------



## Trango Towers

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499834025774653441


Now replace that with a Muslim kid? 

Headline...terrorists training

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## Madni Bappa

gambit said:


> Russia made that *WRITTEN* promise before 2008 when Ukraine was in possession of 1700 nuclear warheads. Can *YOU* even find that doc?


Yeah this is the "gotcha" you've been throwing in face of Putin whenever he tried to warn or request you. 

There's even a few months old nbc interview where the reporter throws the same bs on his face.





Diplomats like Kissinger, Mersheimer and others were warning of same things. 

Real horrific to watch Americans push the world into further conflict just to massage their dinged egos. And offcourse to start another. Afterall throughout it's history America has been in war or inciting wars. Only very few years where America was continuously in peace time.

Your campaign on this forum is very worthless. Because there are soooo many skeletons in America's own closet.

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## Piotr

coffee_cup said:


> Can someone post miles long list of *WRITTEN* agreements, which the USA has violated till now.
> 
> Please make sure to add *WRITTEN* to those. Or else they dont qualify.



Just few examples:
Broken Treaties With Native American Tribes: Timeline​

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## LeGenD

RescueRanger said:


> Can I just make one observation: we have seen such bombastic Russian blood and bone and images of scrap metal littering the streets of Ukraine.
> 
> And still the Russian military advances, creeps forward and gains territory.
> 
> in this I am yet to see a single image of Ukrainian (military) casualties and losses on any independent source (except handles and telegram which be people will say is propaganda).
> 
> So ask yourself- yes the Russians are taking hits and images are coming in thick and fast- but where are the images from the Ukrainian side?
> 
> I honestly fear that the losses on the Ukrainian side are equally disturbing if not higher.


Bro,

I am sure that Russian military advances, scenes of Russian military strikes and their aftermath are equally well-documented. What fellow members of the Forum want to post here in this thread is up to them.

Situation on the ground can shift in any location at any point in time as well. A lot is happening on the ground.

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## coffee_cup

Piotr said:


> Just few examples:
> Broken Treaties With Native American Tribes: Timeline​



You forgot to add *WRITTEN* to that bro, so they dont count. ;- )

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## Foinikas

coffee_cup said:


> OMG, is it really him? Zelensky?😳


Yes I posted that video here a few days ago. He's playing the piano with his dick. Now the whole country is sharing his dick.

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## gambit

coffee_cup said:


> Can someone post miles long list of *WRITTEN* agreements, which the USA has violated till now.
> 
> Please make sure to add *WRITTEN* to those. Or else they dont qualify.


Fine, so the US made agreements and broke them. But this is about *RUSSIA AND UKRAINE*, not US. Can *YOU* find that written agreement between Russia and Ukraine where Russia promised not to attack if Ukraine give up 1700 nuclear warheads? Do you think the Ukrainians give a damn about US breaking past agreements? No, they do not.

Each nuclear warhead is one security assurance. Russia seduced/convinced Ukraine to give up 1700 security assurances. It was not a legally enforceable doc but Ukraine gave up anyway. But now, it is so important that Ukraine understand that the US had broken promises therefore Ukraine must self justify Russia's invasion? Is that the main point of your argument?


----------



## Madni Bappa

gambit said:


> Yes, am sure that those who fled your countries, whatever they are, thought of those events from US history before they made their decisions to take the trip to the US. It looks you guys are doing to poor job of disseminating these facts, buddy. They do not look to be made up. Am sure they in wikipedia, so they must be true. Then why do so many people continue to come to the US? No one forced them to adopt the America idea. Who holds a gun to their heads?
> 
> Ultimately, this is about the contest of ideas. Any country is its own idea.
> 
> So between the competition of the Pakistan idea vs the America idea, how many Pakistanis are in the US versus how many Americans in Pakistan and for what reasons? Can you answer that? You criticize US while ignoring/missing the irony that *YOU* are in the US living the good life provided by the America idea. Here is the brutal truth: That *YOU* are in the US mean at *YOUR* level, the America idea won, and the same goes for every Pakistani living in the US and refused to return to Pakistan.


The reason so many people flee to you is because you started wars and bombed the countries to smithereens. 

Same happened to EU when NATO bombed Libya and Syria. You're essentially speeding up the great replacement you're (mainly neo cons and the far right neo nazis but I'm sure it's only time when the left will start singing same tune) so scared of.

Because of your regime changes, land grabs from Mexico and drug wars in South America you have literal refugees camping out at your border. They are sick and tired and simply packing up and lining up at your border.

And I haven't even started on Africa.

So instead veiled personal attacks. Why don't you answer the questions already posed?

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## Kraetoz

The SC said:


> Air battle in Kyiv. (They say)
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499839151646126081


Fake.
Trees at 7 seconds mark, from a video game.


----------



## pkuser2k12



Reactions: Angry Angry:
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## Madni Bappa

coffee_cup said:


> OMG, is it really him? Zelensky?😳


Mujhe to lagta hai ye Zelensky apni marwa kar president bana hai lmao 😂

Based but lewd I admit.



coffee_cup said:


> Can someone post miles long list of *WRITTEN* agreements, which the USA has violated till now.
> 
> Please make sure to add *WRITTEN* to those. Or else they dont qualify.


Literally 10s or 100s with Native Americans alone


----------



## coffee_cup

Foinikas said:


> Yes I posted that video here a few days ago. He's playing the piano with his dick. Now the whole country is sharing his dick.



This is insane! He really looks stoned.

And he is supposed to lead this very dangerous war, which has a potential to become WWIII !

I have no words!


----------



## gambit

Madni Bappa said:


> The reason so many people flee to you is because you started wars and bombed the countries to smithereens.
> 
> Same happened to EU when NATO bombed Libya and Syria. You're essentially speeding up the great replacement you're (mainly neo cons and the far right neo nazis but I'm sure it's only time when the left will start singing same tune) so scared of.
> 
> Because of your regime changes, land grabs from Mexico and drug wars in South America you have literal refugees camping out at your border. They are sick and tired and simply packing up and lining up at your border.
> 
> And I haven't even started on Africa.
> 
> So instead veiled personal attacks.* Why don't you answer the questions already posed?*


Your post made it clear you failed to understand the high level arguments for US in the first place. Your logic is that: The US started wars in other countries so that they have no choice but to come to the US.


----------



## RescueRanger

LeGenD said:


> Bro,
> 
> I am sure that Russian military advances, scenes of Russian military strikes and their aftermath are equally well-documented. What fellow members of the Forum want to post here in this thread is up to them.
> 
> Situation on the ground can shift in any location at any point in time as well. A lot is happening on the ground.


No what I’m referring to here is the the lack of any substantive coverage on the Russian perspective — that is what worries me.

So far all I have seen is analysts sitting in Washington and dull old men pointing at maps.



pkuser2k12 said:


> View attachment 820866
> View attachment 820868


I can’t help but lol.

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## LeGenD

RescueRanger said:


> No what I’m referring to here is the the lack of any substantive coverage on the Russian perspective — that is what worries me.
> 
> So far all I have seen is analysts sitting in Washington and dull old men pointing at maps.


I commonly check livemap.com and The War Zone for updates - both are reliable and cover numerous developments.

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## Madni Bappa

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499830088803794946


The people who were invaded by Nazis abstained or voted against condemning Nazism??


----------



## RescueRanger

LeGenD said:


> I commonly check livemap.com and The War Zone for updates - both are reliable and cover numerous developments.


What I’m referring to is more to do with influence and opinion:





__





Ukraine-Russia crisis: who’s winning the international influence war? | Ukraine | The Guardian


The balance of power in the diplomatic battle is shifting constantly. But are any of the key players making real advances?




amp.theguardian.com





Ask yourself, where does the majority of content pivot ?


----------



## Madni Bappa

gambit said:


> Your post made it clear you failed to understand the high level arguments for US in the first place. Your logic is that: The US started wars in other countries so that they have no choice but to come to the US.


And what I said is exactly true. Why did you take in boatloads of people who were working/fighting for you in wars you started overseas??

Most recently your humiliating departure from Afghanistan and the C17s full of Afghans dumped on third countries or US bases??


----------



## TheNoob

LeGenD said:


> Bro,
> 
> I am sure that Russian military advances, scenes of Russian military strikes and their aftermath are equally well-documented. What fellow members of the Forum want to post here in this thread is up to them.
> 
> Situation on the ground can shift in any location at any point in time as well. A lot is happening on the ground.



You can't deny the fact that the narrative seems heavily one-sided and the reports seem very handpicked.

Sure, the situation changes every minute and is unpredictable.
But given the aftermath reports,
It's just not right.



LeGenD said:


> I commonly check livemap.com and The War Zone for updates - both are reliable and cover numerous developments.



This answers a lot of things!

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## Foinikas

Captured Russian soldier (from a video)













Wait a minute...






😂😂😂

He's actually a Ukrainian soldier. A friend sent me the video and the photo.

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## gambit

RescueRanger said:


> Can I just make one observation: we have seen such bombastic Russian blood and bone and images of scrap metal littering the streets of Ukraine.
> 
> And still the Russian military advances, creeps forward and gains territory.
> 
> in this I am yet to see a single image of Ukrainian (military) casualties and losses on any independent source (except handles and telegram which be people will say is propaganda).
> 
> So ask yourself- yes the Russians are taking hits and images are coming in thick and fast- but where are the images from the Ukrainian side?
> 
> *I honestly fear that the losses on the Ukrainian side are equally disturbing if not higher.*


So what if Ukrainian losses are worse in every way? I ask that in the neutral context.

The Ukrainians are saying: We need to minimize the public perception of our losses while maximizing Russia's.

This does not mean Russia have zero data on how much Ukrainian losses inflicted by its forces. So it seems the more important questions is: Where are those data that should have been collected by the Russian Army at ground level? And please, do not insult everyone's intelligence by saying that the Russian Army is more humane than the US Army.

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## TheNoob

gambit said:


> So what if Ukrainian losses are worse in every way? I ask that in the neutral context.
> 
> The Ukrainians are saying: We need to minimize the public perception of our losses while maximizing Russia's.
> 
> *This does not mean Russia have zero data on how much Ukrainian losses inflicted by its forces. So it seems the more important questions is: Where are those data that should have been collected by the Russian Army at ground level? And please, do not insult everyone's intelligence by saying that the Russian Army is more humane than the US Army.*
> 
> 
> Leave the US for Pakistan, then you can have a credible argument.



To be fair, given the way this war started and played out so far. 
I'd give Russians more credit for humanity than i'd ever give the US. 

Especially if they're holding back on the "Data".


----------



## gambit

TheNoob said:


> To be fair, given the way this war started and played out so far.
> I'd give Russians more credit for humanity than i'd ever give the US.
> 
> Especially if they're holding back on the "Data".


Or is it possible that the Russian Army is more incompetent than thought? I doubt you considered that option. It is too unimaginable. And you said 'To be fair' ?

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## LeGenD

RescueRanger said:


> What I’m referring to is more to do with influence and opinion:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine-Russia crisis: who’s winning the international influence war? | Ukraine | The Guardian
> 
> 
> The balance of power in the diplomatic battle is shifting constantly. But are any of the key players making real advances?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amp.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ask yourself, where does the majority of content pivot ?


Russian military movements are being mapped and discussed in following links:









Russia’s war in Ukraine: complete guide in maps, video and pictures


Where is fighting happening and how did we get here?




www.theguardian.com










Institute for the Study of War


The Russian military has continued its unsuccessful attempts to encircle Kyiv and capture Kharkiv. The Russians continued to attack piecemeal, committing a few battalion tactical groups at a time rather than concentrating overwhelming force to achieve




www.understandingwar.org







TheNoob said:


> You can't deny the fact that the narrative seems heavily one-sided and the reports seem very handpicked.
> 
> Sure, the situation changes every minute and is unpredictable.
> But given the aftermath reports,
> It's just not right.
> 
> 
> 
> This answers a lot of things!


It depends upon which sources you are checking.

I have posted two links above which will help you understand what is happening and how situation on the ground continues to change by the day. I have mentioned the names of other two as well.

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## TheNoob

gambit said:


> Or is it possible that the Russian Army is more incompetent than thought? I doubt you considered that option. It is too unimaginable. And you said 'To be fair' ?



You're really on that drug,
can't blame you though.
You've been like this uber-pro-American for as long as I've been in the forums regarding various political subjects. lol



LeGenD said:


> Russian military movements are being mapped and discussed in following links:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia’s war in Ukraine: complete guide in maps, video and pictures
> 
> 
> Where is fighting happening and how did we get here?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Institute for the Study of War
> 
> 
> The Russian military has continued its unsuccessful attempts to encircle Kyiv and capture Kharkiv. The Russians continued to attack piecemeal, committing a few battalion tactical groups at a time rather than concentrating overwhelming force to achieve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.understandingwar.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It depends upon which sources you are checking.
> 
> I have posted two links above which will help you understand what is happening and how situation on the ground continues to change by the day.



I would most definitely skip the guardian given the past stories I've read with them regarding various subjects and they are definitely not neutral.
Although the second link may be something worth a look.

Still, though, It is very curious.


----------



## RescueRanger

LeGenD said:


> Russian military movements are being mapped and discussed in following links:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia’s war in Ukraine: complete guide in maps, video and pictures
> 
> 
> Where is fighting happening and how did we get here?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Institute for the Study of War
> 
> 
> The Russian military has continued its unsuccessful attempts to encircle Kyiv and capture Kharkiv. The Russians continued to attack piecemeal, committing a few battalion tactical groups at a time rather than concentrating overwhelming force to achieve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.understandingwar.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It depends upon which sources you are checking.
> 
> I have posted two links above which will help you understand what is happening and how situation on the ground continues to change by the day.



I’ll just share one clip — remember turning nations into boogeymen never works:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499858994755739652
It’s all about narrative especially in an age when technology has permeated every bit of our lives , when the gen Z get their information from Snapchat and Instagram influencers.

How many (please be honest) do Independent fact finding — the majority just consume the peddled narrative as a spoon in brought to the mouth.

Just my humble observation, lie o said I am no holy cow and nor do I pretend to be.
😊



gambit said:


> Or is it possible that the Russian Army is more incompetent than thought? I doubt you considered that option. It is too unimaginable. And you said 'To be fair' ?


Oh I agree that the Russian military’s performance this far has been comical to say the least.

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## LeGenD

TheNoob said:


> I would most definitely skip the guardian given the past stories I've read with them regarding various subjects and they are definitely not neutral.
> Although the second link may be something worth a look.
> 
> Still, though, It is very curious.


The Guardian is a brand with numerous authors contributing to it. The Guardian provides best coverage of the conflict in the link which I have shared here. Check it out and then decide. Do not dismiss a source based on journalistic articles.

Numerous members are trying to map the conflict through Twitter handles - this is a mistake. You need to check mapping sources to understand what is happening.

@RescueRanger

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## Avicenna

coffee_cup said:


> OMG, is it really him? Zelensky?😳



Bro this guy in an actor playing another role.


----------



## Vergennes

Avicenna said:


> Bro this guy in an actor playing another role.



Putin getting humiliated by a guy who used to play piano with his d*ck,who transformed from a comedian to a real chief of state and commander,how amazing.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## RescueRanger

LeGenD said:


> The Guardian is a brand with numerous authors contributing to it. The Guardian provides best coverage of the conflict in the link which I have shared here. Check it out and then decide. Do not dismiss a source based on journalistic articles.
> 
> Numerous members are trying to map the conflict through Twitter handles - this is a mistake. You need to check mapping sources to understand what is happening.
> 
> @RescueRanger


I trust the guardian as a valid source, it’s journalist integrity is second to one and I agree fully with everything you’ve said here in your rebuttal.

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## Rafi

RescueRanger said:


> What I’m referring to is more to do with influence and opinion:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine-Russia crisis: who’s winning the international influence war? | Ukraine | The Guardian
> 
> 
> The balance of power in the diplomatic battle is shifting constantly. But are any of the key players making real advances?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amp.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ask yourself, where does the majority of content pivot ?



I have Ukranian family and from what I have have found out, the Ukranian military has taken a great pounding.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1 | Sad Sad:
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## Bilal.

gambit said:


> So what if Ukrainian losses are worse in every way? I ask that in the neutral context.
> 
> The Ukrainians are saying: We need to minimize the public perception of our losses while maximizing Russia's.
> 
> This does not mean Russia have zero data on how much Ukrainian losses inflicted by its forces. So it seems the more important questions is: Where are those data that should have been collected by the Russian Army at ground level? And please, do not insult everyone's intelligence by saying that the Russian Army is more humane than the US Army.
> 
> 
> Leave the US for Pakistan, then you can have a credible argument.


That’s your argument? Is he not a citizen of US? Is he not allowed to criticize? all you got is leave, leave, leave. 

Why you bunch of hypocrites fund media and NGOs in other countries and promote the idea that it’s ok to criticize the government, its policies and the state of the country?

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## Avicenna

gambit said:


> Fine, so the US made agreements and broke them. But this is about *RUSSIA AND UKRAINE*, not US. Can *YOU* find that written agreement between Russia and Ukraine where Russia promised not to attack if Ukraine give up 1700 nuclear warheads? Do you think the Ukrainians give a damn about US breaking past agreements? No, they do not.
> 
> Each nuclear warhead is one security assurance. Russia seduced/convinced Ukraine to give up 1700 security assurances. It was not a legally enforceable doc but Ukraine gave up anyway. But now, it is so important that Ukraine understand that the US had broken promises therefore Ukraine must self justify Russia's invasion? Is that the main point of your argument?



Your arrogance is off the charts.

Wow.

Between you and Lindsey Graham.

No wonder people hate America.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499862529367240704

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## RescueRanger

Rafi said:


> I have Ukranian family and from what I have have found out, the Ukranian military has taken a great pounding.


That is what scares me and that is the thrust of my original post. Old farts sitting on TV pointing at maps doesn’t hide the fact that the the people of Ukraine are in a very difficult position.

Forget anything I say about politics or military or or that nonsense. As a human it pains me to see what is happening and all that is offered are warm words and things that go boom.

Like a clip said “we will fight Russia there so we don’t have to fight Russia here”…

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## Vergennes

Russia blocks Twitter, Youtube and Facebook and will punish authors who write "fake news about the situation in Ukraine and the russian army" with 15 years in prison.


----------



## Avicenna

Vergennes said:


> Putin getting humiliated by a guy who used to play piano with his d*ck,who transformed from a comedian to a real chief of state and commander,how amazing.



Story ain't over buddy.

Let's see.


----------



## LeGenD

RescueRanger said:


> I trust the guardian as a valid source, it’s journalist integrity is second to one and I agree fully with everything you’ve said here in your rebuttal.


It is good source but people should know how to use it. Let me explain to all here.

Mapping of conflict in real time in following link:









Russia’s war in Ukraine: complete guide in maps, video and pictures


Where is fighting happening and how did we get here?




www.theguardian.com





Standard coverage in following link:









News, sport and opinion from the Guardian's global edition | The Guardian


Latest international news, sport and comment from the Guardian




www.theguardian.com





I will check both links but I will concentrate on the mapping link in particular. This source is tracking Russian military advances in the mapping link.

Twitter handles merely show snapshots of events through time.

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## Tamerlane

In his effort to minimize civilian casualties Putin has hobbled his military and sent them in with one hand tied behind their back. That's why this is taking so long, and is causing a lot of casualties among Russian troops. Putin admitted this himself in one of his speeches a day or two ago.

Here's another proof of this. Russian generals won't say this but his ally, Kadyrov, is practically begging Putin to let them finish the job, I'll post a lot of the article because RT is on/off all the time.

*Chechen leader makes Ukraine plea to Putin*

Ramzan Kadyrov claims his solution is the only one that will save the Russian state and its people

If Russian President Vladimir Putin wants to put a quick end to the country’s military operation in Ukraine, he should give Chechen troops the go-ahead to seize the Eastern European nation’s major cities, the leader of Chechnya has claimed.

In a statement on Friday, Ramzan Kadyrov asked for Chechen soldiers to be given the green light to capture towns across the former Soviet republic.

“Give an order to our fighters to seize Kharkov, Kiev, and all the other cities quickly, accurately, and efficiently,” he insisted.

“Comrade President, Comrade Supreme Commander, I have said more than once that I am your infantryman, I am ready to give my life for you,” Kadyrov insisted. “But I cannot watch how our fighters are dying. I beg you turn a blind eye to everything and let them finish in a day or two what is happening there.”

According to Kadyrov, “only this will save our state and people.”

“I ask you to give our fighters the opportunity to prove themselves to the fullest, to give them the opportunity to use all their possible and impossible force in order to finish this once and for all,” he pleaded.

In response to Kadyrov’s request, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Putin was considering all options when it came to Russia’s military campaign in Ukraine.

“It is not my competence to comment on questions of military art. The Commander-in-Chief receives information, including about such proposals. And it is up to him to decide how to conduct the special operation,” he said.

Kadyrov had previously declared that Chechnya was willing to send volunteers from the region to the most dangerous combat zones of Ukraine to fight shoulder to shoulder with the Russian Army. According to the head of the republic, there are currently 12,000 Chechen troops in the Eastern European country.



https://www.rt.com/russia/551246-kadyrov-chechen-troops-ukraine-plea/


----------



## Wergeland 2.0

gambit said:


> So what if Ukrainian losses are worse in every way? I ask that in the neutral context.
> 
> The Ukrainians are saying: We need to minimize the public perception of our losses while maximizing Russia's.
> 
> This does not mean Russia have zero data on how much Ukrainian losses inflicted by its forces. So it seems the more important questions is: Where are those data that should have been collected by the Russian Army at ground level? And please, do not insult everyone's intelligence by saying that the Russian Army is more humane than the US Army.
> 
> 
> Leave the US for Pakistan, then you can have a credible argument.



Isnt his arguments valid though.
Youre skipping incovenient truths and answering them with unrelated one liners meant to attack the man and not adress the ball.You are not the only american on this forum to do this.

To me its seems there is a section of americans who simply, excuse me, have superiority complexes. Not content with being a lone superpower, they want nothing less than total submission of the entire world. God forbid if you dont agree with them, for then you are not freedom loving, you are a terrorist, a tyrant, undemocratic and well you know all those tropes. Everyone knows that superiority complexes deep down is a inferiority complex. Maybe its all boils down to america orginially being a land of people who never made it in their home nation, be it extreme religious sectcs, destitute proverty, hunger or someone who was a outcast.

I am NOT saying this is a bad thing. Because its a good thing that people can come to a foreign nation and get a second chance to improve their lives. When people rise from a disadvantaged position they may do one of two things: be humble or be arrogant and vengeful.

American citizens are on average becoming relatively poorer than rest of the world. Wages has stopped growing since two-three decades ago, except for the richest 5%. Infrastructure is declining and there is huge crime and drug problem, extreme incarceration rates, not only compared to europe but even some developing nations.

Why not stop waging war and regime changes when you instead could spend some of that money on the welfare of the average american?

For all its faults America is still a great nation i to this day choose to admire. But i think America after second world war lost its soul, something which became even more appearant after the end of cold war.

The elephant curve:




__





American Economic Association






www.aeaweb.org

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## RescueRanger

@LeGenD perhaps can we consider making a repository thread for sources for members to use please- that would be fantastic.

Thank you.

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## coffee_cup

Vergennes said:


> Putin getting humiliated by a guy who used to play piano with his d*ck,who transformed from a comedian to a real chief of state and commander,how amazing.



He is mentally unstable and apparently on drugs.

If anything, this is a serious cause for concern. Ruling a country is very serious business, especially in a divided country like Ukraine and in a very dangerous neighborhood.

Lets pray for the safety of Ukranians!


----------



## Madni Bappa

Kraetoz said:


> Fake.
> Trees at 7 seconds mark, from a video game.


Yup


gambit said:


> Leave the US for Pakistan, then you can have a credible argument.


Will you say this to every Latino, African or Asian who points out skeletons in your own closet?

By this logic why did your fathers only couple generations removed decide to come to America?? And forcefully and by deceit take over Native American lands?? Shouldn't you also go back to your European homeland and then have a credible argument with me??


----------



## Avicenna

Bilal. said:


> He’s a Vietnamese working hard to prove his worth.



We all have our reasons for our positions.

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## pkuser2k12

*Most of western public (normies) outrage over Russia attacking Ukraine comes from mainstream media who told them to CARE this time around hence the outrage*

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## RescueRanger

pkuser2k12 said:


> View attachment 820880


Case in point and it’s a bitter pill for some. And a salve for others.



Avicenna said:


> We all have our reasons for our positions.


Very valid point. Someone once said “opinions are a lot like A$$holes—everyone has one” 😂

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## gambit

Bilal. said:


> That’s your argument? Is he a citizen of US? Is he allowed to criticize? all you got is leave, leave, leave.


He is allowed to criticize, but does that mean he is immune from the consequences of his speech? Free speech works both ways, correct?

But the gist of my defense of the US is that beside criticizing any particular policy, cultural issue, or foreign affairs event, if you think the US is inherently 'evil' or 'inferior' to other countries, then find one that is superior and move there.

Take homelessness, for one example. Homelessness is a problem, but that does not mean the US is inherently 'evil' because there are many factors that contributed to homelessness, and many of those factors also exists in other countries. Homelessness is a symptom of incompetence, not malice. Become a homelessness activist, but not anti-US.

Being anti-US mean you hate everything that make up the US. Every speech you make, there is something negative about the US. You minimize the good, even when the US have a good policy or did something excellent that made you or your family come to the US in the first place. In short, you find evil intent behind everything that make up the US. Then why the hell should I take your criticism, even under the Free Speech umbrella, seriously? If the US is that terrible, just pack up and leave.


----------



## deX

The SC said:


> Air battle in Kyiv. (They say)
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499839151646126081


99% 100% its DCS

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## Foinikas

Vergennes said:


> Putin getting humiliated by a guy who used to play piano with his d*ck,who transformed from a comedian to a real chief of state and commander,how amazing.


Commander? Is he planning the war himself? And he ordered a full mobilization in the end of the second day of the war? He's just lucky the West is giving him anti-tank weapons and Turkey is giving him drones. Where are all the super weapons Ukrainians had been designing for years?


----------



## Bilal.

Avicenna said:


> We all have our reasons for our positions.


Yes, true. Sorry to get carried but it’s just pathetic how they would arm twist the rest of the world for freedom of expression, speech and criticism but when it comes to the “country of the emigrants” itself, the best defense to criticism they can come up with is “go back to your country”.



gambit said:


> He is allowed to criticize, but does that mean he is immune from the consequences of his speech? Free speech works both ways, correct?
> 
> But the gist of my defense of the US is that beside criticizing any particular policy, cultural issue, or foreign affairs event, if you think the US is inherently 'evil' or 'inferior' to other countries, then find one that is superior and move there.
> 
> Take homelessness, for one example. Homelessness is a problem, but that does not mean the US is inherently 'evil' because there are many factors that contributed to homelessness, and many of those factors also exists in other countries. Homelessness is a symptom of incompetence, not malice. Become a homelessness activist, but not anti-US.
> 
> Being anti-US mean you hate everything that make up the US. Every speech you make, there is something negative about the US. You minimize the good, even when the US have a good policy or did something excellent that made you or your family come to the US in the first place. In short, you find evil intent behind everything that make up the US. Then why the hell should I take your criticism, even under the Free Speech umbrella, seriously? If the US is that terrible, just pack up and leave.


You have full right to tear him apart with counter argument. But leave the country is not a counter argument.

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## RescueRanger

Bilal. said:


> Yes, true. Sorry to get carried but it’s just pathetic how they would arm twist the rest of the world for freedom of expression, speech and criticism but when it comes to the “country of the emigrants” itself, the best defense to criticism they can come up with is “go back to your country”.


Ah yes the age of “get off ma land” doesn’t wash anymore. People are so quick to forget the east India trading company and what they did to other peoples lands and property and resources. 

Call modern day immigration collective repayment of the debt many of these nations owe.

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## Bilal.

RescueRanger said:


> Call modern day immigration collective repayment of the debt many of these nations owe.


This!!! It’s not a favor. The wealth they have is the product of 300 years of looting. Not to mention that these emigrants (specially from this part of the world) are far from being freeloaders but rather some of the most productive citizens they got.

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## Wergeland 2.0

gambit said:


> Homelessness is a symptom of incompetence, not malice



you didnt really mean that.. come on
there are many reasons for being homeless person. you can be as competent as you wish but sometimes your childhood conditions, accidents, unluck, disease, betrayal… you name it this horrible stuff could happen to anyone regardless of their capabilities.

Its a duty for every man to care for his neighbor to some degree, after all a King without a people is a nobody.


----------



## patero

Bilal. said:


> Yes, true. Sorry to get carried but it’s just pathetic how they would arm twist the rest of the world for freedom of expression, speech and criticism but when it comes to the “country of the emigrants” itself, the best defense to criticism they can come up with is “go back to your country”.
> 
> 
> *You have full right to tear him apart with counter argument. But leave the country is not on of those arguments.*


A person undermines their own arguments against a country and its first principals when they have chosen to live there and benefit from that countries first principals. It's a fair question, why choose to live somewhere if you are so critical of it, a person has the choice not to live there.


----------



## TheNoob

pkuser2k12 said:


> View attachment 820880
> 
> 
> *Most of western public (normies) outrage over Russia attacking Ukraine comes from mainstream media who told them to CARE this time around hence the outrage*



Ouch, the cringe broke my leg.


----------



## RescueRanger

Bilal. said:


> This!!! It’s not a favor. The wealth they have is the product of 300 years of looting.


Exactly my point it’s repayment of a debt.

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## Ali_Baba

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499835199131107329



This is advertised everywhere - it is not a secret !!!

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## TheNoob

gambit said:


> He is allowed to criticize, but does that mean he is immune from the consequences of his speech? Free speech works both ways, correct?
> 
> But the gist of my defense of the US is that beside criticizing any particular policy, cultural issue, or foreign affairs event, if you think the US is inherently 'evil' or 'inferior' to other countries, then find one that is superior and move there.
> *
> Take homelessness, for one example. Homelessness is a problem, but that does not mean the US is inherently 'evil' because there are many factors that contributed to homelessness, and many of those factors also exists in other countries. Homelessness is a symptom of incompetence, not malice. Become a homelessness activist, but not anti-US.*
> 
> Being anti-US mean you hate everything that make up the US. Every speech you make, there is something negative about the US. You minimize the good, even when the US have a good policy or did something excellent that made you or your family come to the US in the first place. In short, you find evil intent behind everything that make up the US. Then why the hell should I take your criticism, even under the Free Speech umbrella, seriously? If the US is that terrible, just pack up and leave.



Gambit, I respect you.
But... Honestly... You need to take a break.

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## Ali_Baba

The SC said:


> Air battle in Kyiv. (They say)
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499839151646126081



This is a DCS video from a Computer Game !!!!!

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## Bilal.

@dbc let me see you give negative rating for your fellow citizen being asked to go back to Pakistan by @gambit? Or that’s ok?

@The Eagle @RescueRanger why negative rating for one and not the other when the cause is berating one’s ethnic background?

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## RescueRanger

Ali_Baba said:


> This is advertised everywhere - it is not a secret !!!


Also that Twitter account name is deeply disturbing. What is with some people and their fascination with world war III?

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## TNT

gambit said:


> Russia made that *WRITTEN* promise before 2008 when Ukraine was in possession of 1700 nuclear warheads. Can *YOU* even find that doc?



So Ukraine removed nukes and Russia let them be. Now they want NATO nukes, so common sense dictates that agreement of not invading is trash.

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## pkuser2k12

TheNoob said:


> Ouch, the cringe broke my leg.



looks like you were saving this line for pdf

thanks for the chuckle now carry on my friend

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## RescueRanger

As always a very balanced analysis from RUSI:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499789265294745604
Well worth watching the full video.


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## Bilal.

patero said:


> A person undermines their own arguments against a country and its first principals when they have chosen to live there and benefit from that countries first principals. It's a fair question, why choose to live somewhere if you are so critical of it, a person has the choice not to live there.


Why US funds NGOs and media around the world along the principle that it’s ok to criticize the state, the government, it’s policies and the state of the country in general and not willing to allow the same at home?

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## dbc

Bilal. said:


> @dbc let me see you give negative rating for your fellow citizen being asked to go back to Pakistan by @gambit? Or that’s ok?


Suggesting an immigrant return to their country of origin if they are dissatisfied with their adopted home is a reasonable argument. While attacking a member for being of Vietnamese origin is not ok and against forum rules.


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## Madni Bappa

RescueRanger said:


> As always a very balanced analysis from RUSI:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499789265294745604
> Well worth watching the full video.


Paywall sadly 😔

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## Bilal.

dbc said:


> Suggesting an immigrant return to their country of origin if they are dissatisfied with their adopted home is a reasonable argument. While attacking a member for being of Vietnamese origin is not ok and against forum rules.


It’s not an argument. It’s just attacking the argument with the ethnicity card. A citizen of country has a right to criticize without the end all argument of you don’t like it then leave. It is an attack on ethnicity and basically denying the right to criticize to a person(or people) of certain ethnic backgrounds. 

Or at least that’s what US preaches and would be nice if it practices the same.

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## Madni Bappa

dbc said:


> Suggesting an immigrant return to their country of origin if they are dissatisfied with their adopted home is a reasonable argument. While attacking a member for being of Vietnamese origin is not ok and against forum rules.


It is a very faulty argument. Because those telling others to go back themselves have stolen land from Native Americans. They themselves are immigrants.



Also it is problematic. Because a good amount of US population ilare immigrants and you're essentially suggesting them to eliminate them from the democratic process protected by very explicit amendments in the Constitution.

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## gambit

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> Isnt his arguments valid though.
> Youre skipping incovenient truths and answering them with unrelated one liners meant to attack the man and not adress the ball.You are not the only american on this forum to do this.


My response here...









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


A person undermines their own arguments against a country and its first principals when they have chosen to live there and benefit from that countries first principals. It's a fair question, why choose to live somewhere if you are so critical of it, a person has the choice not to live there. A...



defence.pk







Wergeland 2.0 said:


> To me its seems there is a section of americans who simply, excuse me, have superiority complexes. Not content with being a lone superpower, they want nothing less than total submission of the entire world. *God forbid if you dont agree with them, for then you are not freedom loving, you are a terrorist, a tyrant, undemocratic and well you know all those tropes.* Everyone knows that superiority complexes deep down is a inferiority complex. Maybe its all boils down to america orginially being a land of people who never made it in their home nation, be it extreme religious sectcs, destitute proverty, hunger or someone who was a outcast.


Fair enough.

But tell me, if you, and I say 'you' generically, are an advocate for theocracy, and given the history of theocracy, why is it unreasonable to call you, and again I say 'you' generically lest there be any misunderstanding, as someone who is undemocratic, not freedom loving, tyrannical, or even terroristic?

What the US stands for, there can be only opposites. The opposite of 'free speech' is 'anti free speech', not 'some free speech' or 'conditional free speech'. You cannot make a little bit of fire. It is physically impossible. Either you have the flame, or you have no fire. Either you have a circle or a square or a triangle, or you do not, there is no middle ground. If you blend a circle with a square, you will have something else, but never a circle or a square. If you want to change a particular policy, that is a different issue and I have no problems with pointing out flaws in policies or cultural issues. As a veteran, I hate to see homeless vets. I do not watch much movies because I think most movies sucks, except just to watch the progress of special effects. I do not like the wealth disparity but I do not condemn capitalism. I think most TV commentators are idiots but I do not believe in suppressing their comments. So in terms of ideological foundation, it is either you like US, or you do not. And if you do not like US, pack up and leave.

If you want to say that we have a superiority complex, do so. We do not care. Just as you chose to immunize yourself from our criticism, expect the same from Americans for yours.



Wergeland 2.0 said:


> Because its a good thing that people can come to a foreign nation and get a second chance to improve their lives.


But why? What conditions are/were there that compelled them to leave their birth countries? Am not interested in debating the particulars of every country, but only to point out that if you criticize US, examine why did you or your family left. It is not resorting to 'whataboutism'. It is about self examination *BEFORE* you criticize the country that made your life better.



Wergeland 2.0 said:


> When people rise from a disadvantaged position they may do one of two things: be humble or be arrogant and vengeful.


Or be protective what made their lives better.



Wergeland 2.0 said:


> American citizens are on average becoming relatively poorer than rest of the world. Wages has stopped growing since two-three decades ago, except for the richest 5%. Infrastructure is declining and there is huge crime and drug problem, extreme incarceration rates, not only compared to europe but even some developing nations.


This is not the place to debate those issues. Use the search feature and resurrect old threads for that.



Wergeland 2.0 said:


> For all its faults America is still a great nation i to this day choose to admire. But i think America after second world war lost its soul, something which became even more appearant after the end of cold war.


Maybe the commies had something to do with that?


----------



## RescueRanger

Polite notice to all - please don’t resort to abuse or personal attacks. Let’s be civilised, the war is in Ukraine and not on PDF.

Long after this conflict comes (hopefully) to a conclusion, we will all still be here and many of us are I’d like to thing (pdf friends).

So everyone please tone down the anger, these debates can get a little emotive but that is no cause for personal attacks or to lose one’s temper.

Might I suggest perhaps dipping out into another thread or listening to whale music 😂. 

Let’s be kind to each other please.

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## Madni Bappa

Bilal. said:


> It’s not an argument. It’s just attacking the argument with the ethnicity card. A citizen of country has a right to criticize without the end all argument of you don’t like it then leave. Or at least that’s what US preaches and would be nice if it practices that same.


By starting this debate @gambit has achieved what he wanted.

To completely side track the line of thought about manufacturing war. Stealing land. Going back on signed treaties. Ignoring US population for foreign security interest. And hypocrisy in general.

Above all historical precedence for all of this. Going back centuries.

This video sums up post Spanish American War, James K Polk, A Jackson and Monroe doctrine United States very nicely.

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## Wergeland 2.0

patero said:


> A person undermines their own arguments against a country and its first principals when they have chosen to live there and benefit from that countries first principals. It's a fair question, why choose to live somewhere if you are so critical of it, a person has the choice not to live there.



A person can like and love aspects of their own country but have distaste for other aspectcs.

If a Russian citizen have a opinion that Russia has been acting agressive and bullying, and condems its foreign policy, you would certainly think he has the right and maybe even SHOULD do that. You would think its kinda strange if some other russian told him to leave russia wouldnt you?

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## gambit

TNT said:


> So Ukraine removed nukes and Russia let them be. Now they want NATO nukes, so common sense dictates that agreement of not invading is trash.


There is nothing in the NATO charter that requires members to have nukes. So your argument is trash.


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## RescueRanger

Bilal. said:


> @dbc let me see you give negative rating for your fellow citizen being asked to go back to Pakistan by @gambit? Or that’s ok?
> 
> @The Eagle @RescueRanger why negative rating for one and not the other when the cause is berating one’s ethnic background?


Bilal I’ve reported both the Vietnamese trope and the other post by both respected members for moderation. 

If you feel a member is breaching forum rules please use the report feature.


----------



## patero

Bilal. said:


> Why US funds NGOs and media around the world along the principle that it’s ok to criticize the state, the government, it’s policies and the state of the country in general and not willing to allow the same at home?


So why choose to live in a country and support these principals that you don't agree with. By living in the US and paying taxes there a person would by supporting those policies they don't agree with.


----------



## Bilal.

RescueRanger said:


> Polite notice to all - please don’t resort to abuse or personal attacks. Let’s be civilised, the war is in Ukraine and not on PDF.
> 
> Long after this conflict comes (hopefully) to a conclusion, we will all still be here and many of us are I’d like to thing (pdf friends).
> 
> So everyone please tone down the anger, these debates can get a little emotive but that is no cause for personal attacks or to lose one’s temper.
> 
> Might I suggest perhaps dipping out into another thread or listening to whale music 😂.
> 
> Let’s be kind to each other please.


Lol. It’s the go back to Pakistan that got me going.

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## Madni Bappa

gambit said:


> My response here...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> A person undermines their own arguments against a country and its first principals when they have chosen to live there and benefit from that countries first principals. It's a fair question, why choose to live somewhere if you are so critical of it, a person has the choice not to live there. A...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fair enough.
> 
> But tell me, if you, and I say 'you' generically, are an advocate for theocracy, and given the history of theocracy, why is it unreasonable to call you, and again I say 'you' generically lest there be any misunderstanding, as someone who is undemocratic, not freedom loving, tyrannical, or even terroristic?
> 
> What the US stands for, there can be only opposites. The opposite of 'free speech' is 'anti free speech', not 'some free speech' or 'conditional free speech'. You cannot make a little bit of fire. It is physically impossible. Either you have the flame, or you have no fire. Either you have a circle or a square or a triangle, or you do not, there is no middle ground. If you blend a circle with a square, you will have something else, but never a circle or a square. If you want to change a particular policy, that is a different issue and I have no problems with pointing out flaws in policies or cultural issues. As a veteran, I hate to see homeless vets. I do not watch much movies because I think most movies sucks, except just to watch the progress of special effects. I do not like the wealth disparity but I do not condemn capitalism. I think most TV commentators are idiots but I do not believe in suppressing their comments. So in terms of ideological foundation, it is either you like US, or you do not. And if you do not like US, pack up and leave.
> 
> If you want to say that we have a superiority complex, do so. We do not care. Just as you chose to immunize yourself from our criticism, expect the same from Americans for yours.
> 
> 
> But why? What conditions are/were there that compelled them to leave their birth countries? Am not interested in debating the particulars of every country, but only to point out that if you criticize US, examine why did you or your family left. It is not resorting to 'whataboutism'. It is about self examination *BEFORE* you criticize the country that made your life better.
> 
> 
> Or be protective what made their lives better.
> 
> 
> This is not the place to debate those issues. Use the search feature and resurrect old threads for that.
> 
> 
> Maybe the commies had something to do with that?


All I can say is Hamartia has a much easier cubicle than you. Or desk if y'all work from home these days lmao 😂

@Hamartia Antidote wassup big bro?


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## TNT

gambit said:


> There is nothing in the NATO charter that requires members to have nukes. So your argument is trash.



It may not "require" but it does give the option, like how nukes placed in Turkey. Doesn't require a genius to see this.


----------



## RescueRanger

Bilal. said:


> Lol. It’s the go back to Pakistan that got me going.


Yeah that was completely unacceptable for him to say that and it has been reported. Such behaviour is unacceptable and he’s not the President to make such demands anyway, just another random on an Internet forum.

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## Madni Bappa

patero said:


> So why choose to live in a country and support these principals that you don't agree with. By living in the US and paying taxes there a person would by supporting those policies they don't agree with.


There are so many people living in so many countries that don't support what their countries are doing.

When China or Russia uses same arguments against Uighurs or Navalny. They are crucified on world media very much like what media is doing right now. 

But Americans should be allowed to use same arguments against it's own people?

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## Bilal.

patero said:


> So why choose to live in a country and support these principals that you don't agree with. By living in the US and paying taxes there a person would by supporting those policies they don't agree with.


So basically your argument is that anyone living in US has no right to disagree with any policy or criticize any aspect of the society? You are confusing principles with policy and in doing so you are actually contradicting with the principles that US at least claims to be based on.

As for paying the tax argument. That is precisely what gives them more right to show their opinion where they disagree.

And again. Why does US preach the exact opposite and actively fund media and NGOs around the world to do exactly that?



RescueRanger said:


> Yeah that was completely unacceptable for him to say that and it has been reported. Such behaviour is unacceptable and he’s not the President to make such demands anyway, just another random on an Internet forum.


Agreed. Then to top it, they support funding “free” media and “liberal” NGOs in Pakistan.

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## Madni Bappa

RescueRanger said:


> Bilal I’ve reported both the Vietnamese trope and the other post by both respected members for moderation.
> 
> If you feel a member is breaching forum rules please use the report feature.


I think I raised some very important questions against some very one sided arguments we're getting from US, Nato posters here. 

Arguments I made essentially stand in line with intellectuals like Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn etc. I believe I haven't done nothing wrong.

I didn't like however my genuine arguments side stepped by my ethnicity and immigration status. Which is very futile to the arguments originally presented.

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## gambit

TNT said:


> It may not "require" but it does give the option, like how nukes placed in Turkey. Doesn't require a genius to see this.


Then admit that the true reason for why Russia invaded Ukraine is not about NATO membership but about taking back what was lost after the Soviet Union collapsed. Is Turkey a former Soviet satellite?


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## RescueRanger

Madni Bappa said:


> I think I raised some very important questions against some very one sided arguments we're getting from US, Nato posters here.
> 
> Arguments I made essentially stand in line with intellectuals like Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn etc. I believe I haven't done nothing wrong.
> 
> I didn't like however my genuine arguments side stepped by my ethnicity and immigration status. Which is very futile to the arguments originally presented.


Please report and they will be reviewed by the mods. Anyone who resorts to attacking one’s opinion with a rebuke based on factors such as gender, race, colour. Ethnicity, nationality, gender identity etc is a shallow person and not worth engaging with.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499876055968100359

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## RescueRanger

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499876055968100359


It’s tragic but what Ukraine must understand and appreciate is a no fly zone will mean NATO aircraft potentially shooting down Russian aircraft and that will have very serious consequences.

Zelensky, like any other National leader is trying to save his nation and people and defend Ukraine and her Independence and integrity but at the same time he needs to understand that at the end of the day despite the warm words and other things Ukraine sadly is not a member of NATO.


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## gambit

Madni Bappa said:


> I think I raised some very important questions against some very one sided arguments we're getting from US, Nato posters here.


One sided? That is hilarious considering how many Americans are in this forum in the first place. Now how many Americans are in this thread? Now what is the volume of comments blaming US for Russia invading Ukraine? Yea...It is one-sided. But sure as the sky is blue, it ain't for US, pal.



Madni Bappa said:


> I didn't like however my genuine arguments side stepped by my ethnicity and immigration status. Which is very futile to the arguments originally presented.


Explain what does this has to do with Russia invading Ukraine?









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


No brother. The Jewish have no involvement in it besides alot of people seems to misunderstand things here regarding the jews. In reality the jews are merely servants of the west aka previously known as Rome. The Jewish are not a free entity and used with a tight-rope This is true and nobody...



defence.pk


----------



## Wergeland 2.0

gambit said:


> But tell me, if you, and I say 'you' generically, are an advocate for theocracy, and given the history of theocracy, why is it unreasonable to call you, and again I say 'you' generically lest there be any misunderstanding, as someone who is undemocratic, not freedom loving, tyrannical, or even terroristic?



Theocracy, democracy, these are are mere words and maybe some «definitions» that have consesus within a certain circle of people.

I am a muslim. I dosent matter to me if the ideal muslim nation calls itself a theocracy or democracy or supersuperbestestcracy. What matters to me is that the leadership of a nation lives upto some ideals and that subjects should be given some responibilites and benefits in a balanced way.

The problem is that most americans and non-muslims, and even muslims, think Islam is a religion, that is religion according to the western definition of religion. Islam is NOT a religion. As i told here before Islam compared to neo-liberalism and postmodernism do not believe in unrestricted individual freedom, and tbh neither does USA. Without regulations there would be no civilization. Islam says freedom is a virtue and should be maximized, but not at the expense of other virtues like family, social life, stability, safety and so on.

Of course you are free to think a «theocracy» is tyrannical. But then i have to ask you what is a theocracy and tyrannical compared to what?? If Iran is a theocracy and in your opinion therefore tyrannical, then you given yourself the right to sanction, bomb, invade and kill iranians? Isnt murdering and killing people in lands far off from your coast, the real tyranny!? Any normal human would think so.

When europeans invaded and killed native americans, the legitimized it by labeling them barbaric and tyrannical. So they were exterminated.

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## Bilal.

patero said:


> This is just going around in circles, you can't accept a very simple premise. Respect a country and its principals or don't choose to live there.


Again you are confusing policies with principles and then proposing the very thing that contradicts what US “claims” to be as one of the basic “principles” it stands on.

You can’t have your cake and eat it too.


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## RescueRanger

patero said:


> This is just going around in circles, you can't accept a very simple premise. Respect a country and its principals or don't choose to live there.


Respectfully YOU are no one to make that demand on a fellow human being. He is entitled to his opinion and his immigration status is NOT up for debate here. 

Everyone stay on topic from now on. No personal attacks no cheap nonsense. 

@The Eagle @LeGenD 

—-


----------



## pkuser2k12

China to pull Premier League TV coverage this weekend over Ukraine support​








China pulls PL TV coverage over Ukraine support


Chinese broadcasters will not air Premier League matches this weekend in response to the league's planned support of Ukraine.



www.espn.in

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## dbc

Bilal. said:


> It’s not an argument. It’s just attacking the argument with the ethnicity card. A citizen of country has a right to criticize without the end all argument of you don’t like it then leave. It is an attack on ethnicity and basically denying the right to criticize to a person(or people) of certain ethnic backgrounds.
> 
> Or at least that’s what US preaches and would be nice if it practices the same.



A US citizen can criticise his or her country, it's done all the time. As a matter of fact I know many who have chosen not to apply for citizenship because they loath the US enough to never want to become permanently associated with the country. 

The US isn't without flaws and it can never be all things to all people. Criticism is ok, but when people bearing our flag on PDF wish harm to befall our country - that is not ok. If the US has caused you to become bitter -then leave.

I don't see a flaw in Gambits reasoning. Suggesting that a US citizen of Vietnamese descent has a higher burden of loyalty is racist.


----------



## NotSure

gambit said:


> Fine, so the US made agreements and broke them. But this is about *RUSSIA AND UKRAINE*, not US. Can *YOU* find that written agreement between Russia and Ukraine where Russia promised not to attack if Ukraine give up 1700 nuclear warheads? Do you think the Ukrainians give a damn about US breaking past agreements? No, they do not.
> 
> Each nuclear warhead is one security assurance. Russia seduced/convinced Ukraine to give up 1700 security assurances. It was not a legally enforceable doc but Ukraine gave up anyway. But now, it is so important that Ukraine understand that the US had broken promises therefore Ukraine must self justify Russia's invasion? Is that the main point of your argument?


This written agreement was obsolete after the Coup happened on 22. february 2014.

Get over it, everybody knows and understand it. Your parroting of the word "written" thousand times will change nothing.

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## deX

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499876055968100359


I don't how big bet this actor/comedian has placed for Nato's direct involvement, but he sure is the main person who brought his country to current situation. 
He reminds me of Altaf bhai while making emotional statements


----------



## Meengla

Pretty interesting discussion on an Indian channel. I know, Pranab is hated by PDF Pakistanis but at least in this episode he shines around minute 27. And around minute 39 the discussion gets really interesting. Here is a video from around minute 39. What is obvious is that Indians are not very happy with the anti-Russia slant and that's not just in this video. As are most Pakistanis but who, more than India, can afford to be totally neutral. Pakistan's main gain is through China's advantage but that's still so tangential gain. Pakistanis could afford to be totally neutral in this.


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## gambit

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> Theocracy, democracy, these are are mere words and maybe some «definitions» that have consesus within a certain circle of people.
> 
> *I am a muslim.* I dosent matter to me if the ideal muslim nation calls itself a theocracy or democracy or supersuperbestestcracy. What matters to me is that the leadership of a nation lives upto some ideals and that subjects should be given some responibilites and benefits in a balanced way.


Never asked what you are and did not know, until now. But ultimately, I do not care and so far in this thread, I never brought in religion. Unlike others who brought in arguments that have nothing to do with the main topic. The reason I brought in theocracy was just to use a contrasting example. Not to indict any particular religion.



Wergeland 2.0 said:


> The problem is that most americans and non-muslims, and even muslims, think Islam is a religion, that is religion according to the western definition of religion. Islam is NOT a religion. As i told here before Islam compared to neo-liberalism and postmodernism do not believe in unrestricted individual freedom, and tbh neither does USA. Without regulations there would be no civilization. *Islam says freemdom is a virtue and should be maximized, but not at the expense of other virtues like family, social life, stability, safety and so on.*


Under that umbrella, anything can be construed as threatening to <whatever>. And that is the point of why the US have such a liberal attitude towards the *IDEA* of 'free speech'. But am not going into the details of that here.



Wergeland 2.0 said:


> Of course you are free to think a «theocracy» is tyrannical. But then i have to ask you what is a theocracy and tyrannical compared to what?? If Iran is a theocracy and in your opinion therefore tyrannical, then you given yourself the right to sanction, bomb, invade and kill iranians? Isnt murdering and killing people in lands far off from your coast, the real tyranny!? Any normal human would think so.


Are you saying that the current hostile relation between Iran and the US is based *SOLELY* on ideological differences and not from other issues/factors?


----------



## pkuser2k12

*What is wrong with these people *


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499880226922319873

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## Wood




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## gambit

NotSure said:


> This written agreement was obsolete after the Coup happened on 22. february 2014.
> 
> Get over it, everybody knows and understand it. Your parroting of the word "written" thousand times will change nothing.


You cannot even produce that agreement, let alone declaring it nullified.

Ukraine was in physical ownership of 1700 Soviet nuclear warheads. Russia was too weak to get them back. Russia seduced/convinced Ukraine to give up the nukes based on a non-legal doc. Ukraine agreed and complied to Russia's wishes. Now Russia is 1700 nuclear warheads more powerful.

And Ukraine is in the wrong?


----------



## Bilal.

dbc said:


> A US citizen can criticise his or her country, it's done all the time. As a matter of fact I know many who have chosen not to apply for citizenship because they loath the US enough to never want to become permanently associated with the country.
> 
> The US isn't without flaws and it can never be all things to all people. Criticism is ok, but when people bearing our flag on PDF wish harm to befall our country - that is not ok. If the US has caused you to become bitter -then leave.
> 
> I don't see a flaw in Gambits reasoning. Suggesting that a US citizen of Vietnamese descent has a higher burden of loyalty is racist.


No one had wished harm to befall on US as far as I read. @Madni Bappa was pointing out how the flawed US “policies” had brought suffering and consequences back home. And the counter argument used to answer that was “go back to Pakistan”. 

I wouldn’t care generally for that argument if it weren’t for US’s constant lecturing and active funding of NGOs across the world to question the policies of their respective countries and when it comes to its own matters, behaving to the contrary. 

Like I said, you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Either accept criticism from your “citizens” or stop your preaching and arm twisting across the globe.

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## Wergeland 2.0

gambit said:


> The opposite of 'free speech' is 'anti free speech', not 'some free speech' or 'conditional free speech'. You cannot make a little bit of fire. It is physically impossible. Either you have the flame, or you have no fire. Either you have a circle or a square or a triangle, or you do not, there is no middle ground. If you blend a circle with a square, you will have something else, but never a circle or a square.



Again youre painting it as if Americans have unrestricted freedom of speech and that voting really counts.

In reality i would sat yes in certain areas America has more freedom of expression and speech but in other areas it prevents freedom of speech. In america you are not allowed to openly say or publish things which compromise national security, and rightly so. But still its a limitation of freedom of speech. You are not allowed to boycott israeli productc in many states. Teachers has to do a oath where they sign that they support Israel.

If we take it to the extreme you can say yes america allows gay marriage in certain states but why not consentual incest? Now let me tell you i am all against consentual incest, but to be fair for the sake of freedom of expression and liberty, why is it disallowed? Why are people disallowed to walk completely naked in public sphere?

In summary: America does not have absolute freedom of speech, what you have is a consensus based framework for what is acceptable or not. By large the limits of freedom of expression is controlled by your media, which in reality are 5-10 big media conglomerates, owned and controlled by only a few people.

When it comes to voting, you think you have a say when in reality its the money and media who decides whos going to win. People only vote according to the information they have access to, and that information is controlled by media.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Madni Bappa said:


> All I can say is Hamartia has a much easier cubicle than you. Or desk if y'all work from home these days lmao 😂
> 
> @Hamartia Antidote wassup big bro?



It gives me a big chuckle when I point out all the so-called experts here who made reply after reply after long winded reply saying there is no way Putin would invade Ukraine and all this talk by the US of an invasion was fakeNews. When Russian officials stood up and actively denied an invasion was imminent the weak minded sheep again got up and pointed out this as proof of US lies.

Then after Putin invades the tune changes from "he would never invade" to "oh..uh..they deserve to be invaded..yes..yes..that's it".


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499881291411509248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499882354290135040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499878400030351360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499877370060226561

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## gambit

Dual Wielder said:


> Nope its the orphan from the Ottomans.. ask @Hakikat ve Hikmet he'll tell you more..


But Turkey is NATO member. Remember the reasoning here...

That because of the *POTENTIAL* for nuclear weapons to be based on a NATO member, Russia is justified to invade Ukraine.


----------



## LeGenD

RescueRanger said:


> @LeGenD perhaps can we consider making a repository thread for sources for members to use please- that would be fantastic.
> 
> Thank you.


Please check:






Repository of journalistic sources and how to use them with Russia - Ukraine War in focus and Fact-checking considerations


Dear members, Some members complain about the issue of reporting bias (and propaganda) in journalistic contents. These complaints were noticed in the following thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/ This thread is created to address the...



defence.pk

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## pkuser2k12




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## NotSure

gambit said:


> You cannot even produce that agreement, let alone declaring it nullified.
> 
> Ukraine was in physical ownership of 1700 Soviet nuclear warheads. Russia was too weak to get them back. Russia seduced/convinced Ukraine to give up the nukes based on a non-legal doc. Ukraine agreed and complied to Russia's wishes. Now Russia is 1700 nuclear warheads more powerful.
> 
> And Ukraine is in the wrong?


This ukraine do not exist any longer after the coup. And YOU, the USA, destroyed it. But keep parroting the same point and don't forget the word *WRITTEN*.

The amount of arrogance and mendacity from you could be straight out of nazi germany. But hey, they copied your nazi ideology back then, you as the anglosaxons are the genuine inventors. So your behavrior is no suprise at all.

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## Trango Towers

gambit said:


> There is nothing in the NATO charter that requires members to have nukes. So your argument is trash.


Stop talking nonesse and allow Russian missiles in Cuba then.

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## The SC

An image showing the remains of the world's largest transport aircraft Antonov An-225

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## RescueRanger

LeGenD said:


> Please check:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Repository of journalistic sources and how to use them with Russia - Ukraine War in focus and Fact-checking considerations
> 
> 
> Dear members, Some members complain about the issue of reporting bias (and propaganda) in journalistic contents. These complaints were noticed in the following thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/ This thread is created to address the...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


Just did and thank you for taking the effort to compile that. I could t offer you a positive on that thread so have offered on here.

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## pkuser2k12



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## The SC

After Ukraine lost the world's largest An-225 Mriya in the ongoing war with Russia, the largest battleship of the Ukrainian Navy faced the same fate.






A photo widely shared on Twitter on March 3 shows the 30-year-old Hetman Sagaidachny (U130) frigate Krivak III/Menzhinskiy sitting half-submerged on its side in the coastal city of Mykolaiv.

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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> An image showing the remains of the world's largest transport aircraft Antonov An-225
> 
> View attachment 820916


This breaks my heart because this majestic aircraft was part of the relief efforts during the 2005 earthquake and not many people may know that. 

☹️

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## FairAndUnbiased

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499834025774653441


They say they're winning so hard.... Then why do they need child soldiers and a penal legion?

Do they realize that soldiers can legally shoot armed civilians on the spot as militants?

This is irresponsible to risk the lives of children.

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## Wergeland 2.0

dbc said:


> The US isn't without flaws and it can never be all things to all people. Criticism is ok, but when people bearing our flag on PDF wish harm to befall our country - that is not ok. If the US has caused you to become bitter -then leave.



Agree. Its ok to critize and even hate sometimes your own countrey, but do not wish for bad things to happen to it.

OTOH Its ok to wish that bad things happen to those who made bad choices for your country.


----------



## gambit

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> Again youre painting it as if Americans have unrestricted freedom of speech and that voting really counts.


Yes and yes.



Wergeland 2.0 said:


> In reality i would sat yes in certain areas America has more freedom of expressiok and speech but in other areas it prevents freedom of speech. In america you are not allowed to openly say or publish things which compromise national security, and rightly so. But still its a limitation of freedom of speech. *You are not allowed to boycott israeli productc in many states. Teachers has to do a oath where they sign that they support Israel.*


Regarding the highlighted, please provide *LEGAL* edicts.



Wergeland 2.0 said:


> In summary: ameica *does not have absolute freedom of speech*, what you have is a consensus based framework for what is acceptable or not.


To say 'absolute' implies conditions. The word 'absolute' overrides all conditions, even future ones. That is not what am talking about.

The US believe in 'free speech' as a philosophical and moral principle for the country, meaning every proposal, not yet law, that even hinted at infringing upon speech must be examined to see if there are political underpinnings of that proposal. An often used example is yelling fire in a crowded theater when there is no fire. That is illegal. Not because there are any political underpinnings of the law but of humane consequences. The word 'humane' means towards people. So from this perspective, the US does have *SITUATIONAL* constraints on speech, but not on restricting speech on general principle.



Wergeland 2.0 said:


> By large the limits of freedom of expression is controlled by your media, which in reality are 5-10 big media conglomerates, owned and controlled by only a few people.
> 
> When it comes to voting, you think you have a say when in reality its the money and media who decides whos going to win. People only vote according to the information they have access to, and that information is controlled by media.


Media is speech. Money is speech. The AARP is a lobby for seniors and they need money to speak for the elderly. Is that wrong?


----------



## GumNaam

pkuser2k12 said:


> View attachment 820917


well DUH! this is Russia, not Iraq, if nato tries to enforce any so called "no fly zone" over ukraine, nato won't have an air force left!

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## RescueRanger

FairAndUnbiased said:


> They say they're winning so hard.... Then why do they need child soldiers and a penal legion?
> 
> Do they realize that soldiers can legally shoot armed civilians on the spot as militants?
> 
> This is irresponsible to risk the lives of children.


This is just for local consumption let’s take stock don’t you remember school children being taught how to shoot in Pakistan following APS







Points we have to accept:

Ukraine is at war with Russia
How Ukraine choose to inspire its people is for her government and people to decide

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## Madni Bappa

Hamartia Antidote said:


> It gives me a big chuckle when I point out all the so-called experts here who made reply after reply after long winded reply saying there is no way Putin would invade Ukraine and all this talk by the US of an invasion was fakeNews. When Russian officials stood up and actively denied an invasion was imminent the weak minded sheep again got up and pointed out this as proof of US lies.
> 
> Then after Putin invades the tune changes from "he would never invade" to "oh..uh..they deserve to be invaded..yes..yes..that's it".


All you could have done was a friendly exchange of pleasantries.

I asked you wassup. You should've said same old same old bro. 

Anyway I think of you as an old chum. Even if the feeling is not reciprocated.


----------



## The SC

RescueRanger said:


> This breaks my heart because this majestic aircraft was part of the relief efforts during the 2005 earthquake and not many people may know that.
> 
> ☹️


It should have been respected.. but Russians were afraid of it being used for transporting more arms and ammunition to Ukraine..

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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> It should have been respected.. but Russians were afraid of it being used for transporting more arms and ammunition to Ukraine..


War is ugly business.

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## gambit

Trango Towers said:


> Stop talking nonesse and allow Russian missiles in Cuba then.


The US did not invade Cuba and the Soviet Union *PEACEFULLY* removed the missiles after negotiations.

The Cuban Missile Crisis actually supports our argument. Yes, we did pressured Cuba to the extent that we did a naval blockade on the island. But at the same time, we negotiated with the Soviet Union on how to resolve the crisis *PEACEFULLY*. In the end, we left Cuba alone to this day. Whereas, Russia seduced/convinced Ukraine to give up nuclear weapons in exchange for sovereignty. All parties worked peacefully. Now Russia invaded Ukraine because Poutine wanted to make a name in Russian history. Not because of perceived NATO threat.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

The SC said:


> It should have been respected.. but Russians were afraid of it being used for transporting more arms and ammunition to Ukraine..


I thought Ukrainians destroyed it though? From my understanding it got taken out when Ukrainians shelled Antonov airport to retake it from Russian airborne troops.

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## RescueRanger

More TB2 drones?

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## Hamartia Antidote

Madni Bappa said:


> All you could have done was a friendly exchange of pleasantries.
> 
> I asked you wassup. You should've said same old same old bro.
> 
> Anyway I think of you as an old chum. Even if the feeling is not reciprocated.



How is my reply an unpleasantly to you?

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## LeGenD

GumNaam said:


> well DUH! this is Russia, not Iraq, if nato tries to enforce any so called "no fly zone" over ukraine, nato won't have an air force left!


NATO has technological superiority.

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499878223848562694


LeGenD said:


> NATO has technological superiority.


This!

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## Wergeland 2.0

gambit said:


> the US does have *SITUATIONAL* constraints on speech, but not on restricting speech on general principle



You are here essentialy describing freedom speech in Islam.

So what is so unique then about USA? You just happen to be at the zenith of your civilization lifecycle, so money and decadence allows more personal freedoms. Ottoman empire during the Late 1700s to late 1800s was also around its zenith and the society was far more liberal than forexample America and Europe at that time.

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## jamal18

Interesting piece on the economic aspects of the sanctions. About 20 minutes.


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

FairAndUnbiased said:


> I thought Ukrainians destroyed it though? From my understanding it got taken out when Ukrainians shelled Antonov airport to retake it from Russian airborne troops.



They said just like how Russia is shelling apartment buildings they shelled the AN-225 hangar.


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## RescueRanger

Heavy fighting on both sides in Volnovakha as Ukrainian snipers have pinned down a Russian unit. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499781410135154691

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499892284896260098

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## RescueRanger

Apparently they “claim” to have captured the town:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499811607207190528
Escalation of the Russia-Ukraine conflict sows fears in minorities of a spike in violent attacks by the far-right in Germany​​







Minorities in Germany fear Putin could mobilise the far-right


Escalation of the Russia-Ukraine conflict sows fears in minorities of a spike in violent attacks by the far-right in Germany




www.trtworld.com


----------



## torik

I havent seen any metal tags from dead bodies during this war. Do Russian-Ukranian troops use metal tags?

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## Wergeland 2.0

gambit said:


> Media is speech. Money is speech. The AARP is a lobby for seniors and they need money to speak for the elderly. Is that wrong?



Speaking from a strictly non-moralistic POV its probably not wrong.

It just happens to be that there will always be someone who is more smarter, clever, ruthless in their hunger for money and power. If we think its OK, fair and good for the common people that a few individuals can control a nation and manipulate the population as they wish, then why should it be called a democracy? What you have is actually a plutocracy or oligarchy who throw some bones at the peasantry and keep them busy with entertainment and illusion that voting matter.

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## RescueRanger

Russia's second biggest oil company calls for an end to Putin's war


Russia's second largest oil company has broken ranks with President Vladimir Putin.




edition.cnn.com


----------



## RescueRanger

torik said:


> I havent seen any metal tags from dead bodies during this war. Do Russian-Ukranian troops use metal tags?


Yes they do. I’ve seen a lot of images on Twitter showing Russian paper IDs

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Dual Wielder said:


> Nope its the orphan from the Ottomans.. ask @Hakikat ve Hikmet he'll tell you more..


_Yi'it dushtu'u yerden kalkar_ - a hero rises up from the place where he falls down.....

TB2 drones are the first step....

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499298691156705282

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## Trango Towers

gambit said:


> The US did not invade Cuba and the Soviet Union *PEACEFULLY* removed the missiles after negotiations.
> 
> The Cuban Missile Crisis actually supports our argument. Yes, we did pressured Cuba to the extent that we did a naval blockade on the island. But at the same time, we negotiated with the Soviet Union on how to resolve the crisis *PEACEFULLY*. In the end, we left Cuba alone to this day. Whereas, Russia seduced/convinced Ukraine to give up nuclear weapons in exchange for sovereignty. All parties worked peacefully. Now Russia invaded Ukraine because Poutine wanted to make a name in Russian history. Not because of perceived NATO threat.


Loooool...Bay of pigs? That wasn't your terrorist country then?

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## RescueRanger

torik said:


> I havent seen any metal tags from dead bodies during this war. Do Russian-Ukranian troops use metal tags?


Yes they do:


PakSarZameen47 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499891410249654275
> Apparently Tarkov is not a real city?


 Tarkov is a town in Belarus and Slovakia, just not in Russia.



Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499298691156705282


I want to buy this man a cigar 👌😂


----------



## Rafi

RescueRanger said:


> That is what scares me and that is the thrust of my original post. Old farts sitting on TV pointing at maps doesn’t hide the fact that the the people of Ukraine are in a very difficult position.
> 
> Forget anything I say about politics or military or or that nonsense. As a human it pains me to see what is happening and all that is offered are warm words and things that go boom.
> 
> Like a clip said “we will fight Russia there so we don’t have to fight Russia here”…



Those who cheer for war, have never seen it.

I knew a simple soldier boy
Who grinned at life in empty joy,
Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
And whistled early with the lark.

In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
He put a bullet through his brain.
No one spoke of him again.

You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
Sneak home and pray you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.

Siegfried Sassoon

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## RescueRanger

Rafi said:


> Those who cheer for war, have never seen it.
> 
> I knew a simple soldier boy
> Who grinned at life in empty joy,
> Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
> And whistled early with the lark.
> 
> In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
> With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
> He put a bullet through his brain.
> No one spoke of him again.
> 
> You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
> Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
> Sneak home and pray you'll never know
> The hell where youth and laughter go.
> 
> Siegfried Sassoon


Exactly 21 years of conflict in Pakistan and on our western border has taught me and many other Pakistanis much. But some still fail to see the pointlessness in war, war it is perhaps the oldest, most archaic and intrinsically primitive method of settling arguments.

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## gambit

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> You are here essentialy describing freedom speech in Islam.


Close, but not quite.

You said so yourself that Islam put situational constraints on speech because of certain *VIRTUES*. Am not going to challenge that aspect of your religion.

What is a 'virtue'? What we casually use the word 'virtue' is actually something that is desirable. For example, having a family is desirable, so a family is *VIRTUOUS*, meaning what we should aspire to have. A truth or fact is not a 'virtue' but being truthful and factual is *VIRTUOUS*. Am not being pedantic but the difference is critical to remove misunderstanding.

The difference between what Islam teaches to desire and what the US Constitution say is that the US Constitution have literally no constraint. The First Amendment simply say:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.​​The First says nothing about what are desirable or *VIRTUOUS* traits, behaviors, customs, or situations. The First simply forbid Congress to make any law that restrict speech.

Now, if you want to make such a law, then you must descent down one level, the practical or situational level, and justify why you must restrict speech based only on this situation. You cannot yell 'Fire' in a crowded theater when there is no fire, that is the law. But if you are in the middle of the ocean, then yell 'Fire' all you want. The law say nothing about the latter situation, so it is implicit that you are allowed to yell 'Fire' if you are alone in the middle of the ocean.

This 'virtue' or 'virtuous' based misunderstanding of the First Amendment is why so many people make flawed criticisms and comparisons to their current beliefs.


----------



## GumNaam

LeGenD said:


> NATO has technological superiority.


it's not that simple...some places Russia has an edge, some places nato has an edge.


----------



## Solidify

RT shutdowns & Russia Ukraine conflict March 4 Update
watch


----------



## RescueRanger

500lbs bomb rendered safe and removed by Ukrainian EOD Techs.

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## reflecthofgeismar

Foinikas said:


> Commander? Is he planning the war himself? And he ordered a full mobilization in the end of the second day of the war? He's just lucky the West is giving him anti-tank weapons and Turkey is giving him drones. Where are all the super weapons Ukrainians had been designing for years?



To be fair, Ukrainians had some good prototypes or what would be worth to try out at least.
They had many good REALISTIC ideas but they didn't work out in the end - too much corruption.
They COULD have had a strong army after 2014 but excactly nothing happened. Now they pay the prize.

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## RescueRanger

How things are taken out of context in the information war:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499807262084325379
And the follow up;


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499872184382234636

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499844401853521922

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## Foinikas

reflecthofgeismar said:


> To be fair, Ukrainians had some good prototypes or what would be worth to try out at least.
> They had many good REALISTIC ideas but they didn't work out in the end - too much corruption.
> They COULD have had a strong army after 2014 but excactly nothing happened. Now they pay the prize.


I know,they just did nothing. They had many ideas but they hardly did anything about it. Those oligarchs could have helped their country by funding the defence,but...they even left the country when war started.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499844401853521922


BMD-4

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## RescueRanger

CNN to stop broadcasts in Russia.


----------



## RescueRanger

Fake news:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499720500637057028
This highlights why checking is so important. I myself am guilty of accidentally sharing fake news on previous threads. 

Please fact check!


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

RescueRanger said:


> Polite notice to all - please don’t resort to abuse or personal attacks. Let’s be civilised, the war is in Ukraine and not on PDF.
> 
> Long after this conflict comes (hopefully) to a conclusion, we will all still be here and many of us are I’d like to thing (pdf friends).
> 
> So everyone please tone down the anger, these debates can get a little emotive but that is no cause for personal attacks or to lose one’s temper.
> 
> Might I suggest perhaps dipping out into another thread or listening to whale music 😂.
> 
> Let’s be kind to each other please.



There is also the ignore option. You can't stand with someone's gibberish, put the cursor on their profile and clock ignore. Bingo, you won't see their gibberish any more. Sigh of relief for not seeing their diarrhea. I'm pretty sure @gambit is a big candidate for being ignored. He is telling people "You don't agree with me, leave America". What kind of gibberish is that?

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## gambit

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> It just happens to be that there will always be someone who is more smarter, clever, ruthless in their hunger for money and power. If we think its OK, fair and good for the common people that a few individuals can control a nation and manipulate the population as they wish, then why should it be called a democracy? What you have is actually a plutocracy or oligarchy who throw some bones at the peasantry and keep them busy with entertainment and illusion that voting matter.


Fine. I will indulge you.

Remove money and silence the media because you fear their negative effects in spite of the fact that they do have positive effects as well. We did experimented with this before, and by 'we', am not saying US but other countries. This goes back to my post about contestant ideas.









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


I want to smoke what you're smoking right now. I don't see what I said that is wrong here. There is always an evacuation during disaster events.. If Russia was to attack Western Europe. The Pakistani government will conduct an evacuation. What is there to not understand here



defence.pk





To be 'contestant' is not merely about competing against each other to win a prize, although, that is one type of contest like a footrace towards a trophy. From a geopolitical perspective, to be 'contestant' is about the *ERASURE* of one side. There is no trophy. Unless you count survival as winning and the trophy. How do you achieve the erasure of the other side? Only two ways...

War
Conversion
In my comment 10,233 I also mentioned parallel ideas. Parallel ideas do not seek to erase the other side. They peacefully coexists. But contestant ideas must conflict against each other. Maybe not now, but eventually they will.

We know of countries that silenced the media, or so tightly controlled the media, that effectively money became pointless in the media. We call those countries 'communists'. The decades of uneasy existence of contestant ideas were called Cold War yrs. I lived thru and helped defended my side because I believe in money, the media, and money in the media.

Thankfully, there was no hot war between the two sides. But one side was erased from method 2: Conversion. It mean there were a lot of people converted to what I believe. So many people converted that eventually the other side was sufficiently weakened that it fell apart. We won that contest. If there is a trophy, that trophy is the people.

Your criticism is not new. I say this kindly, but it is trite, and actually no longer effective. What I believe in will *ALWAYS* win in this contest of ideas because ultimately, it is what the people believe.


----------



## CrazyZ

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499298691156705282


Fog of war.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Someone needs to do something here and end this agony. They need a mediator that guarantees the Russian redlines while ending the tragedy faced by the Ukrainian people. I hope an impartial 3rd country (or countries) come in and mediate them. Perhaps China, Turkey, India, Iran, Pakistan and others can mediate. This suffering 👇needs to come to an end. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499826278056304644
That being said, Western powers sacrificing the Ukrainian people while not coming to their aid is really the culprit here. Why did they encourage the stupid Zelensky guy if they weren't gonna fully back him? This is madness.

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## Vergennes

This might be the VDV that were neutralized today by the Ukrainian forces...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499844401853521922


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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499807349955047427

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## mhosein

LeGenD said:


> NATO has technological superiority.



Really? Does NATO have developed and combat deployed hypersonic weapons?

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## RescueRanger

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Someone needs to do something here and end this agony. They need a mediator that guarantees the Russian redlines while ending the tragedy faced by the Ukrainian people. I hope an impartial 3rd country (or countries) come in and mediate them. Perhaps China, Turkey, India, Iran, Pakistan and others can mediate. This suffering 👇needs to come to an end.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499826278056304644
> That being said, Western powers sacrificing the Ukrainian people while not coming to their aid is really the culprit here. Why did they encourage the stupid Zelensky guy if they weren't gonna fully back him? This is madness.


Turkey is offering to host mediation talks.

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## sur

So much for the sanctions:

"_US Treasury has withdrawn businessman Alisher Usmanov’s companies from sanctions lists_" . . . except for *Dilbar *and *Bourkhan *
What is he a pathaan or something? دلبر , بور خان

Sanctions on tycoon’s empire dropped except for yacht and jet​
UK could struggle to sanction Russian ‘oligarchs’​

I reckon that even other sanctions will stay on paper, on TV, while under the table a lots of business will go on.

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## gambit

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> There is also the ignore option. You can't stand with someone's gibberish, put the cursor on their profile and clock ignore. Bingo, you won't see their gibberish any more. Sigh of relief for not seeing their diarrhea. *I'm pretty sure @gambit is a big candidate for being ignored.* He is telling people "You don't agree with me, leave America". What kind of gibberish is that?


Am going to give you a critical clue on debating on the internet.

Whenever I debate people, I have literally *ZERO* interest in changing their minds. For every participant about any subject, there are unknown number of silent readers out there. They read you, me, and who knows who else. They do not ignore anyone. They seek information and opinions from all sides. It is these silent readers, never you, that interests me.

Who are you and why are you so important that your disregard for me causes me anxiety? Zip. You are a nobody to me. If I quote you, it is not because I care about your opinion. I quote you so that the silent readers out there can have a point of reference. Then they can research regressively if they want. Personally, I received many emails from people asking for clarifications and I *ALWAYS* respond. So why the hell should I care if you ignore me or not? You flatter yourself too much.

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## RescueRanger

sur said:


> So much for the sanctions:
> 
> "_US Treasury has withdrawn businessman Alisher Usmanov’s companies from sanctions lists_" . . . except for *Dilbar *and *Bourkhan *
> What is he a pathann or something? دلبر , بور خان
> 
> Sanctions on tycoon’s empire dropped except for yacht and jet​
> I reckon that even other sanctions will stay on paper, on TV, while under the table a lots of business will go on.


a lot of tartar people use Khan but add ov onto the end of the name I.e ; Aleksandr Khanov.



Vergennes said:


> This might be the VDV that were neutralized today by the Ukrainian forces...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499844401853521922


Vehicles certainly look the same as the ones shown in the tweet by pro Ukrainian accounts.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

RescueRanger said:


> Turkey is offering to host mediation talks.



I hope they succeed and it will be very soon,

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## gambit

mhosein said:


> Really? Does NATO have developed and combat deployed hypersonic weapons?


What does this prove?

In regarding weapons development and deployment, here is my take on it...





__





US NORAD chief claims China is 10 times ahead in developing hypersonic weapons


US NORAD chief claims China is 10 times ahead in developing hypersonic weapons PARIS BEACON MARCH 2, 2022 The head of the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD), Glen VanHerck, warned Tuesday before the US House Armed Services Committee that China is 10 times ahead in developing...



defence.pk


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## RescueRanger

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I hope they succeed and it will be very soon,


It is really important that both sides come to the table. But unless both sides can come to an agreement that is mutually beneficial it’s not going to work.

And based on the assessment of people far more aware of the complexities of this conflict and campaign- the Russians are now looking for a complete crushing defeat of the Ukrainians. 

Madness.

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## gambit

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 820930
> 
> 500lbs bomb rendered safe and removed by Ukrainian EOD Techs.


I have serious doubts about this image...









General-purpose bomb - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





General-purpose bombs are often identified by their weight (e.g., 500 lb, 227 kg). In many cases this is strictly a _nominal weight_ (the counterpart to the _caliber_ of a firearm), and *the actual weight of each individual weapon may vary depending on its retardation, fusing, carriage, and guidance systems.* For example, the actual weight of a U.S. M117 bomb, nominally 750 lb (340 kg), is typically around 820 lb (372 kg).​​Even if the innards are completely removed, the outer casing may still be too heavy for one man to shoulder. There is something funky about this.

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## RescueRanger

Washington Post: Russian forces are advancing rapidly towards Kyiv from the east and could attack the city within the next 24 hours.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/04/russia-ukraine-war-putin-news/





gambit said:


> I have serious doubts about this image...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> General-purpose bomb - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> General-purpose bombs are often identified by their weight (e.g., 500 lb, 227 kg). In many cases this is strictly a _nominal weight_ (the counterpart to the _caliber_ of a firearm), and *the actual weight of each individual weapon may vary depending on its retardation, fusing, carriage, and guidance systems.* For example, the actual weight of a U.S. M117 bomb, nominally 750 lb (340 kg), is typically around 820 lb (372 kg).​​Even if the innards are completely removed, the outer casing may still be too heavy for one man to shoulder. There is something funky about this.


It’s on some sort of hoist if you look at the image. But you know better about aerial munitions so I will accept your assessment. 🙂

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## Wergeland 2.0

gambit said:


> Now, if you want to make such a law, then you must descent down one level, the practical or situational level, and justify why you must restrict speech based only on this situation. You cannot yell 'Fire' in a crowded theater when there is no fire, that is the law. But if you are in the middle of the ocean, then yell 'Fire' all you want. The law say nothing about the latter situation, so it is implicit that you are allowed to yell 'Fire' if you are alone in the middle of the ocean.



Islam also allows freedom of both speech and religion but disallows situational aspectcs if it contradicts islamic laws.

This may look like a debate about religion but in fact i have denied that Islam is a religion. For metaphysically Islam is as much or as little a religion as Americanism is a religion or the US constitutionalism is a religion. Its all about the perception and semantics.

In classical islamic civilization, the constitution and the state is islam itself. Thats why often its hard for westerner to understand what we are talking about. Islam is not comparable to christianity and it has no clergy. In other words Islam is a «decentralized statebuilding philosophy» where the president has to be elected through public approval and be a learned and wise person (sounds like a democracy right?)

In a ideal islamic state you are allowed to practice any religion or even be atheists but you are not allowed to blaspheme openly, because blaspheming means treachery against the islamic constitution and wellbeing of its inhabitants. You are allowed to do what you like when you are alone in private, criticize the president and anyone in public, even openly debate the basis of the islamic law itself - which was quite normal in muslim societies. But you are NOT allowed to express or speak in public in such a manner that it would create anarchy, harm families, lead to people harming themselves or others etc.

In America also you are not allowed to instigate people to do acts that corrupt the state and its apparatus and peoples interests (Instigating robbery or arson, Snowden types etc.)

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## Iñigo

"Because of US ... "

Millions have been sent to hell

Ukraine is the last country in the long line of this colossal and deadly plutocratic-oligarchic military Empire founded in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, heir to the British empire

A neutral Ukraine was beneficial for all: beneficial for Ukrainians, for Russians and for Western Europeans. The only losers were the fanatics in London and Washington

The freedom to spread Chaos and terror across the face of the earth

Gambit

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## RescueRanger

POV from a Brookings Scholar:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499840902512132096

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## Madni Bappa

RescueRanger said:


> a lot of tartar people use Khan but add ov onto the end of the name I.e ; Aleksandr Khanov.
> 
> 
> Vehicles certainly look the same as the ones shown in the tweet by pro Ukrainian accounts.


So this is what they mean by "heavy machine gun" in metal slug lol







Wergeland 2.0 said:


> Islam also allows freedom of bott speach and religion but disallows situational aspectcs if it contradicts islamic laws.
> 
> This may look like a debate about religion but in fact i have denied that Islam is a religion. For metaphysically Islam is as much or as little a religion as Americanism is a religion or the US constitutionalism is a religion. Its all about the perception and semantics.
> 
> In classical islamic civilization, the constitution and the state is islam itself. Thats why often its hard for westerner to understand what we are talking about. Islam is not comparable to christianity and it has no clergy. In other words Islam is a decentralized statebuilding philosophy where the president has to be elected and be a learned and wise person (sounds like a democracy right?)
> 
> In a ideal islamic state you are allowed to practice any religion or even be atheists but you are not allowed to blaspheme openly, because blaspheming means treachery against the islamic constitution and wellbeing of its inhabitants. You are allowed to do what you like when you are alone in private, criticize the president and anyone in public, even openly debate the basis of the islamic law itself - which was quite normal in muslim societies. But you are NOT allowed to express or speak in public in such a manner that it would create anarchy, harm families, lead to people harming themselves or others.
> 
> In America also you are not allowed to instigate people to do acts that corrupt the state and its apparatus and peoples interests (Instigating robbery or arson, Snowden etc.)


Are you Tarrant's lost child?

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## gambit

RescueRanger said:


> Washington Post: Russian forces are advancing rapidly towards Kyiv from the east and could attack the city within the next 24 hours.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/04/russia-ukraine-war-putin-news/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It’s on some sort of hoist if you look at the image. But you know better about aerial munitions so I will accept your assessment. 🙂


You are correct about the hoist. But as far as defusing an unexploded ordnance go, this is still odd.









Bomb disposal - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





*Rarely, the specifics of a munition or bomb will allow the technician to first remove it from the area.* In these cases, a containment vessel is used. Some are shaped like small water tanks, others like large spheres. Using remote methods, the technician places the item in the container and retires to an uninhabited area to complete the neutralization. Because of the instability and complexity of modern bombs, this is rarely done. After the munition or bomb has been rendered safe, the technicians will assist in the removal of the remaining parts so the area can be returned to normal. All of this, called a Render Safe Procedure, can take a great deal of time. Because of the construction of devices, a waiting period must be taken to ensure that whatever render-safe method was used worked as intended.​​I talked to a few guys from Eglin AFB who been deployed and they said they preferred to clear the area and detonate. Large bombs that failed on ground impact are more unstable than IEDs. There are plenty of stories on how they found WW II era bombs that are still dangerous.









What do we know about unexploded WW2 bombs?


During the war Britain was scattered with bombs, but what happened to the ones that never exploded?



www.bbc.com

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499871688237871105


gambit said:


> You are correct about the hoist. But as far as defusing an unexploded ordnance go, this is still odd.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bomb disposal - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Rarely, the specifics of a munition or bomb will allow the technician to first remove it from the area.* In these cases, a containment vessel is used. Some are shaped like small water tanks, others like large spheres. Using remote methods, the technician places the item in the container and retires to an uninhabited area to complete the neutralization. Because of the instability and complexity of modern bombs, this is rarely done. After the munition or bomb has been rendered safe, the technicians will assist in the removal of the remaining parts so the area can be returned to normal. All of this, called a Render Safe Procedure, can take a great deal of time. Because of the construction of devices, a waiting period must be taken to ensure that whatever render-safe method was used worked as intended.​​I talked to a few guys from Eglin AFB who been deployed and they said they preferred to clear the area and detonate. Large bombs that failed on ground impact are more unstable than IEDs. There are plenty of stories on how they found WW II era bombs that are still dangerous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do we know about unexploded WW2 bombs?
> 
> 
> During the war Britain was scattered with bombs, but what happened to the ones that never exploded?
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com


I’ll agree with you about UXO handling. I’ve done an EOD course myself so I do appreciate what you are saying.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499911648387248129

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499615583045783552

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## gambit

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> In America also you are not allowed to instigate people to do acts that corrupt the state and its apparatus and peoples interests (Instigating robbery or arson, Snowden types etc.)


Mmm...Sorry, but still not comparable. This will be my last comment about this issue.

Robbery, arson, or treason produces *MATERIAL* harms. Blasphemy does not. So under the US Constitution, Congress cannot make any law about blasphemy. Further, if there is material harm, it must be direct and not derived or of being secondary effects. In other words, if my words hurt your feelings but not your body, then you have to live with my words. As far as Islam not being a religion, I leave that debate between you and your fellow Muslims. But as far as I am concerned, in this material world, Islam is a religion.


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## Madni Bappa

RescueRanger said:


> POV from a Brookings Scholar:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499840902512132096


Brookings institute also said America wouldn't flee from Afghanistan like it ended up doing.

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## RescueRanger

Khabarovsk, 10 hours ago

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499383504265785353


Madni Bappa said:


> Brookings institute also said America wouldn't flee from Afghanistan like it ended up doing.


😂 you’ve got me at a loss there 🙂



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499615583045783552


Too expensive for ordinary people even by western standards to afford a half decent EV.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499565970062381059

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## Wergeland 2.0

gambit said:


> Congress cannot make any law about blasphemy.


But the congress can make laws against rebelionness, teachery and instigation (all three can be regarded blasphemy) against the constitution and the state right? In other words there is something sacred and that sacred is the state and its people, thus blasphemy is disallowed.

my final post too on this matter.

I am happy to had this discussion with you.

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## RescueRanger

Guide for Ukrainians on using Molotov’s:

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## SQ8

RescueRanger said:


> Khabarovsk, 10 hours ago
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499383504265785353
> 
> 😂 you’ve got me at a loss there 🙂
> 
> 
> Too expensive for ordinary people even by western standards to afford a half decent EV.


Looks like Russians are throwing in the reserves.. good ol ZSU-23 Afghanskis.. no radar.. just auto 23mm rain for urban warfare

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## doorstar

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 820930
> 
> 500lbs bomb rendered safe and removed by Ukrainian EOD Techs.


wow! seen soldiers collapse carrying 50 kgs and this ukranian old dude carrying 250 kilos supporting it with 2 fingers and thumb as if it were a balloon. supernatural, just like that sikh who lifted 6+ chinese and threw them off a cliff

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## Clutch



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## CrazyZ

doorstar said:


> wow! seen soldiers collapse carrying 50 kgs and this ukranian old dude carrying 250 kilos supporting it with 2 fingers and thumb as if it were a balloon. supernatural, just like that sikh who lifted 6+ chinese and threw them off a cliff


Look carefully, There is straps from a crane holding up the bomb.

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## Patriot forever

RescueRanger said:


> Washington Post: Russian forces are advancing rapidly towards Kyiv from the east and could attack the city within the next 24 hours



IMO the Russians are going to encircle Kiev but are not going to attack.

The action is happening on the donesk front. They are going to form a cauldron by encircling major chunk of UA on the South eastern front. Another encirclment is already happening at the luhansk front (North Eastern) . They were waiting to join the donesk army and luhansk army fronts with their front in the south and north. Once the stage is set there are 2 big formations happening one in crimea and one in the North. Will probably dissect Ukraine maybe in a week or a month who knows.

I am no expert but this is the most logical outcome of their troops movement.







South Eastern.








South.

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## Madni Bappa

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499615583045783552


When everyone switches to EV. Won't they just jack up electricity prices??

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## RescueRanger

doorstar said:


> wow! seen soldiers collapse carrying 50 kgs and this ukranian old dude carrying 250 kilos supporting it with 2 fingers and thumb as if it were a balloon. supernatural, just like that sikh who lifted 6+ chinese and threw them off a cliff


Haha everyone thinks he’s lifting it, it’s on a hoist 🙂

Kharkiv earlier today:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499930302688415750

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499762344469176324




This guy here is acting like he’s at a friends Walima and not a war. 😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499913382484484100

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## Hamartia Antidote

Madni Bappa said:


> Brookings institute also said America wouldn't flee from Afghanistan like it ended up doing.



The author is a Pakistani-American and she just said it was the least bad choice.






Madiha Afzal








Why staying in Afghanistan is the least bad choice for Biden


As difficult as it is to remain in this longest war, the most likely outcome of pulling out of Afghanistan would be very ugly, including ethnic cleansing, mass slaughter and the ultimate dismemberment of the country.




www.brookings.edu

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## doorstar

CrazyZ said:


> Look carefully, There is straps from a crane holding up the bomb.





RescueRanger said:


> Haha everyone thinks he’s lifting it, it’s on a hoist 🙂
> 
> Kharkiv earlier today:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499930302688415750


oops! 
need me a new prescription for specs. somebody please start a 'GoFundMe' campaign

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## GumNaam

jamal18 said:


> Interesting piece on the economic aspects of the sanctions. About 20 minutes.


please stop posting stuff like this, you will give @Hamartia Antidote deep depression followed by a nervous breakdown...

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## Tamerlane

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> But the congress can make laws against rebeliouness, teachery and instigation (all three can bee regarded blasphemy) against the constitution and the state right? In other words there is something sacred and that sacred is the state and its people, thus blasphemy is disallowed.
> 
> my final post too on this matter.
> 
> I am happy to had this discussion with you.



Regarding free speech in the West, specifically the US, it's a joke for anyone to claim that they have freedom of speech. The US media is overwhelmingly owned by (((them))) and any opinion that is contrary to the official line is fully suppressed. For example, over half the US population believes that 9/11 was an inside job to kick start wars in the Middle East, but when has the mainstream media ever allowed that discussion?

Try to say anything against Jews and you'll lose your job very quickly and be turned into an outcast. Today this protection extends to the LGTBQ community and some other groups. The only group regarding whom free speech is allowed is Muslims. All kinds of abuse of Muslims is protected by freedom of speech laws.

There used to be something called the alternative media. After 9/11 it was the main source for finding the truth and there were tons of alternative media websites. But over the years (((they))) have either bought them off or shut them down. Now I know of only a couple of alternative media websites that I can trust. Even they are suspected of being sources of information gathering by them.

It an Orwellian world out there.

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## RescueRanger

Looks like this is a preemptive tweet by a Russia for something big tomorrow morning:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499774303314845708

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## satyamev

gambit said:


> He is allowed to criticize, but does that mean he is immune from the consequences of his speech? Free speech works both ways, correct?


sounds more like a threat used in dictatorships.

In democracies, everyone is allowed his opinion, however idiotic it might be , without threats of retaliation.

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## RescueRanger

As to be expected there are a lot of angry Ukrainians right now :


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499848140689715211
🤬 The US, like NATO, believes that it is not worth introducing a "no-fly zone" over Ukraine - Secretary of State Blinken.


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## Hamartia Antidote

Clutch said:


>



I'm a bit lost on all this Neo-Nazi stuff. As far as I know both the Ukrainians and Russians are Slavs and thus on Hitler's sh*t list. Or are they treating others on the list even worse...like the Roma.


----------



## Tamerlane

BTW I commend PDF to allow posts with different opinions. This thread is probably 50/50 in favor or against Russia. Quite balanced, and a good source to learn both sides of the story.

This war, I believe, is as significant, if not more, than 9/11 and may have repercussions for a long time. I haven't found another source for information better than this thread. So good job.

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## doorstar

RescueRanger said:


> As to be expected there are a lot of angry Ukrainians right now :
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499848140689715211
> 🤬 The US, like NATO, believes that it is not worth introducing a "no-fly zone" over Ukraine - Secretary of State Blinken.


The US as well as NATO believe a no-fly zone should not be imposed over Ukraine - Secretary Blinken.

Blinken and NATO chief warn establishing a no-fly zone over Ukraine could lead to a 'full-fledged war in Europe' By Jeremy Herb, CNN

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## Hamartia Antidote

GumNaam said:


> please stop posting stuff like this, you will give @Hamartia Antidote deep depression followed by a nervous breakdown...



Why do you keep tagging my name?? You don't see me keep tagging you? Are you getting triggered over something?

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## Hamartia Antidote

doorstar said:


> are you in Germany or using a proxy?



I'm in the US. Why do you think I am in Germany?


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## gambit

satyamev said:


> sounds more like a threat used in dictatorships.
> 
> In democracies, everyone is allowed his opinion, however idiotic it might be , without threats of retaliation.


The difference here is that verbal retaliations do not hurt, except for your feelings. That is called the 'arena of ideas' and where democracies recommends contests resides.


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## Patriot forever

Hamartia Antidote said:


> The author is a Pakistani-American and she just said it was the least bad choice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Madiha Afzal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why staying in Afghanistan is the least bad choice for Biden
> 
> 
> As difficult as it is to remain in this longest war, the most likely outcome of pulling out of Afghanistan would be very ugly, including ethnic cleansing, mass slaughter and the ultimate dismemberment of the country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.brookings.edu



We know her very well 😂🤡


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## Madni Bappa

Hamartia Antidote said:


> The author is a Pakistani-American and she just said it was the least bad choice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Madiha Afzal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why staying in Afghanistan is the least bad choice for Biden
> 
> 
> As difficult as it is to remain in this longest war, the most likely outcome of pulling out of Afghanistan would be very ugly, including ethnic cleansing, mass slaughter and the ultimate dismemberment of the country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.brookings.edu


Mazel Tov!!!


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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499929669533065217

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## Patriot forever

Combine these 2 tweets and anyone with basic IQ will understand the war..



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499907828600885248(the video lays it bare)


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499837835758604290
The assessment was spot on. Just that CIA saw it as an opportunity and flamed it for its strategic interests. Everything mentioned in 2008 happened, from ethnic cleansing to civil war to Russia ukraine war. Each word has come true.

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## RescueRanger



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## Hamartia Antidote

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499929669533065217
> View attachment 820947



We can send 5000 over tomorrow Jon thanks for the idea. Just need to refill the laser cannons first.

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## RescueRanger

In light of this tweet and the recent tweet from the Russian MoFA there is something brewing for tomorrow:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499833850549125133


Hamartia Antidote said:


> We can send 5000 over tomorrow Jon thanks for the idea. Just need to refill the laser cannons first.


😂


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## doorstar

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 820948
> 
> 
> View attachment 820949


now she says she meant to write 'UN' and it came out as NATO due to dyslexia. she is as brilliant as jon cooper and donalad trump.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499923391104438272to prove it she has started to misspell more words as if no one will notice it from her older tweets











__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499927712323948545




you being dyslexic is in your bio?

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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499929669533065217
> View attachment 820947


Pretty sure they already did, last shipment should have some unused MQ-1 drone that was in storage, not sure if they were armed (because I am pretty sure and almost guaranteed that those drone were ex-Custom and Border Patrol MQ-1 that just retired 4 years ago.)

And whether or not they can destroy everything jon said is..........

You may as well ask for millennium falcon

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## Lehrasap

Patriot forever said:


> Combine these 2 tweets and anyone with basic IQ will understand the war..
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499907828600885248(the video lays it bare)
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499837835758604290
> The assessment was spot on. Just that CIA saw it as an opportunity and flamed it for its strategic interests. Everything mentioned in 2008 happened, from ethnic cleansing to civil war to Russia ukraine war. Each word has come true.



I don't agree. 

Putin closed all the doors for Ukraine to stay neutral by occupying the Crimea.

Still today, Putin didn't put Crimea on the negotiation table i.e. if Ukraine becomes neutral, then Russia will return the Crimea. 

Therefore, it is Putin who pushed Ukraine towards NATO for their defense. 

In simple words, till the time Putin does not put Crimea on the negotiation table for peace, till that time it is impossible for Ukrainians to become a neutral state. 

And Zelensky is not a puppet in the present situation, while MAJORITY of Ukrainians are opposing Putin and majority of them want to join NATO.


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## Patriot forever

RescueRanger said:


> In light of this tweet and the recent tweet from the Russian MoFA there is something brewing for tomorrow:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499833850549125133
> 
> 😂



Someone desperately wants NATO intervention that's all. 😂

The dead giveaway was when Ukrainian side wanted everyone to pass without checks so the nazis can mix with the common people and escape, Russia wants to have a checking point before letting people go.

These nazis are desperately and by force stopping common people from leaving the siege.

This is what Russia is warning. The videos are plenty of them using civilian infra like schools etc as bases. Most likely they plan to attack civilians and blame Russia than cry for intervention.

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## Vapnope

@gambit I saw your comment that why people who criticize American foreign policies go to america?

The reason is that American policies in other countries have brought mayhem and bloodshed however at the same time, US provides excellent financial and social opportunities inside America for almost everyone which are unavailable anywhere. So when you say America is a great country, i understand what you are coming from. 

To be fair, each and every country has skeletons in her closets and anyone can be called an evil state.

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## RescueRanger

Patriot forever said:


> Someone desperately wants NATO intervention that's all. 😂
> 
> The dead giveaway was when Ukrainian side wanted everyone to pass without checks so the nazis can mix with the common people and escape, Russia wants to have a checking point before letting people go.
> 
> These nazis are desperately and by force stopping common people from leaving the siege.
> 
> This is what Russia is warning. The videos are plenty of them using civilian infra like schools etc as bases. Most likely they plan to attack civilians and blame Russia than cry for intervention.


Agreed it’s getting out of hand now: read this 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499942838171312130

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## Patriot forever

Lehrasap said:


> I don't agree.
> 
> Putin closed all the doors for Ukraine to stay neutral by occupying the Crimea.
> 
> Still today, Putin didn't put Crimea on the negotiation table i.e. if Ukraine becomes neutral, then Russia will return the Crimea.
> 
> Therefore, it is Putin who pushed Ukraine towards NATO for their defense.
> 
> In simple words, till the time Putin does not put Crimea on the negotiation table for peace, till that time it is impossible for Ukrainians to become a neutral state.
> 
> And Zelensky is not a puppet in the present situation, while MAJORITY of Ukrainians are opposing Putin and majority of them want to join NATO.



The problem with your post is your time line starts in 2014. 

What were the events that led to crimea ? 

As I said read the letter and connect the dots.

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## AZMwi

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499836418872520713


naah they r just trying to stop this type of fake sh*tfuc*ery








The SC said:


> Air battle in Kyiv. (They say)
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499839151646126081


its from a game called digital combat simulator

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## Patriot forever

RescueRanger said:


> Agreed it’s getting out of hand now: read this
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499942838171312130



Exactly, explains everything that is happening in Ukraine for the last decade ( the war is just an escalation). Its all geostrategic interests.

That's why I hold the opinion. Support the common people not the puppet ( which in turn is support for the actual culprits the ones responsible for bloodshed )

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## RescueRanger

These are the people being provided lethal aid right now: the little man in the photo next to Ivan is *Nestor Shufrych* (Member of Parliament in Ukraine) 






He has been arrested for allegedly taking a photo of a checkpoint and is presently is custody of the vigilante police… 

*Mad Max 5.0 *


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499934121853812740


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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> Agreed it’s getting out of hand now: read this
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499942838171312130


As far as my thought goes. This is probably what Putin have done wrong.

NATO were never going to come into Ukraine assistance except for Arms transfer, the request of No Fly Zone is a no brainer, Zelenskyy knows it, Putin knows it, everyone in NATO knows it.

So if Putin is smart, he should have wait until Zelenskyy losing steam on NATO (like the address he has done yesterday) and when he does, gently remind Zelenskyy that NATO is not coming, and they weren't coming from the get go and he was living in a dream for thinking NATO is going to bail his country out. Everyone in both side knows the American and European will at most just sit infront of their tele and say "How awful is this" and move on. So if Putin make the situation dire enough, and show them his hand, he would probably agree to most of Russian point. I would assume this is the reason why putting did not engage fully with the war in the first 7 days

That is not going to happen now because Putin used a hardline approach, which done too many thing that would cross the line not just to Zelenskyy but to normal Ukrainian. As I said before, you don't make friend with bombs. Which mean the more the Russia side shell civilian, the more you put them against Putin, and there are no way 200,000 troop (probably a lot less now as the war of attrition went on can control the entire country.) Which mean insurgency at this point is all but certain, and this is not going to be driven by the EU or NATO, but simply people losing their home, their love one because Russia choose to target civilian instead of military target. Much like how Germany were at the brink of conquering British RAF but then they choose to bomb civilian, which increased the population resolve and gave reprieve to the military

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## Lehrasap

Patriot forever said:


> The problem with your post is your time line starts in 2014.
> 
> What were the events that led to crimea ?
> 
> As I said read the letter and connect the dots.



Let us assume that Russian rebels were not the problem before 2014, and it was all Ukraine's fault. 

Still, after capturing Crimea, Putin could still put it on the negotiation table if Ukraine agrees for the guarantee of the rights of Russian minorities and staying neutral. 

Nevertheless, Putin didn't offer Crimea as a bargaining chip, but went further to support the rebels in other areas of Ukraine too. 

And after doing so, if Putin still demands that Ukraine should stay neutral and does not join NATO, then it is not going to happen, while he himself closed the doors for the negotiations through his previous invasions.


----------



## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


> As far as my thought goes. This is probably what Putin have done wrong.
> 
> NATO were never going to come into Ukraine assistance except for Arms transfer, the request of No Fly Zone is a no brainer, Zelenskyy knows it, Putin knows it, everyone in NATO knows it.
> 
> So if Putin is smart, he should have wait until Zelenskyy losing steam on NATO (like the address he has done yesterday) and when he does, gently remind Zelenskyy that NATO is not coming, and they weren't coming from the get go and he was living in a dream for thinking NATO is going to bail his country out. Everyone in both side knows the American and European will at most just sit infront of their tele and say "How awful is this" and move on. So if Putin make the situation dire enough, and show them his hand, he would probably agree to most of Russian point. I would assume this is the reason why putting did not engage fully with the war in the first 7 days
> 
> That is not going to happen now because Putin used a hardline approach, which done too many thing that would cross the line not just to Zelenskyy but to normal Ukrainian. As I said before, you don't make friend with bombs. Which mean the more the Russia side shell civilian, the more you put them against Putin, and there are no way 200,000 troop (probably a lot less now as the war of attrition went on can control the entire country. Which mean insurgency at this point is all but certain, and this is not going to be driven by the EU or NATO, but simply people losing their home, their love one because Russia choose to target civilian instead of military target. Much like how Germany were at the brink of conquering British RAF but then they choose to bomb civilian, which increased the population resolve and gave reprieve to the military


Excellent analysis 🙂👍


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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> Excellent analysis 🙂👍


Putin should have just wait.

I don't see how the population of Ukraine will accept a Pro-Russian government? After the same government demolished their home and cause significant civilian casualty. And the more the Russian do it, the deeper the hatred it has become. 

And this is the same cycle we have when we are in Afghanistan. Local hate us because we were there, and because we were there, the Taliban attacks. and because Taliban attacks, we bomb the shit out of their farm, house and so on, because we are under attacks, and because of that, they hated us.

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## thetutle

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499762344469176324
> View attachment 820944
> 
> This guy here is acting like he’s at a friends Walima and not a war. 😂
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499913382484484100


Look at these soldiers, they look pitiful. If this is going to be the occupying force, Russia is finished, Look at their helmets. 

Imagine these soldiers faced a nato country, any nato country. Even Lithuania.

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## tower9

Iñigo said:


> "Because of US ... "
> 
> Millions have been sent to hell
> 
> Ukraine is the last country in the long line of this colossal and deadly plutocratic-oligarchic military Empire founded in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, heir to the British empire
> 
> A neutral Ukraine was beneficial for all: beneficial for Ukrainians, for Russians and for Western Europeans. The only losers were the fanatics in London and Washington
> 
> The freedom to spread Chaos and terror across the face of the earth
> 
> Gambit



Ukraine was used as a sacrificial lamb, no doubt.



jhungary said:


> Putin should have just wait.
> 
> I don't see how the population of Ukraine will accept a Pro-Russian government? After the same government demolished their home and cause significant civilian casualty. And the more the Russian do it, the deeper the hatred it has become.
> 
> And this is the same cycle we have when we are in Afghanistan. Local hate us because we were there, and because we were there, the Taliban attacks. and because Taliban attacks, we bomb the shit out of their farm, house and so on, because we are under attacks, and because of that, they hated us.



I agree. I feel Putin miscalculated badly this time. It might be his isolation from all of the years he has had great power, his old age clouding his judgment, his extreme obsession about Russia's fall from power, but I think he miscalculated and fell for NATO's trap.

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## Menace2Society

So this is why Trump was buttering up Putin when he was president. He tried to save Ukraine as he knew his deep state wanted NATO hardware on the Russian border. Trump was an underrated peacemaker.

The bear has a right to protect its borders.

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## RescueRanger

thetutle said:


> Look at these soldiers, they look pitiful. If this is going to be the occupying force, Russia is finished, Look at their helmets.
> 
> Imagine these soldiers faced a nato country, any nato country. Even Lithuania.


These are conscripts kind of the b team as far as Russia is concerned. It’s well equipped troops are fighting near Donbas.


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## thetutle

Hamartia Antidote said:


> I'm a bit lost on all this Neo-Nazi stuff. As far as I know both the Ukrainians and Russians are Slavs and thus on Hitler's sh*t list. Or are they treating others on the list even worse...like the Roma.



This nazi stuff is just Russian propaganda, its a little odd as you say. Russia basically has no real argument to attack so they invent this nonsense. 

There are neo nazis in Ukraine and in Russia. Its a fringe ideology. Its also a way to hype up young guys for a very difficult war. 

Nazis dd not hate slavs, they kind fo thought them to be inferior to the Germans, and in many respects we are. I am a slav. We often talk about how we can be more like germans. When germans invaded Russia they were shocked at the living conditions and lack of toilets etc. 

Also germans liberated many slavs from a genocide and mass murder being committed by the Soviets. This was the case in Ukraine so they will have some nazi sympathies, All my family survived nazi occupation. They were only quite bad to the jews and gypsies. 

Anyway this nazi stuff is just a Russian smokescreen.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499962368939466754

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## Menace2Society

thetutle said:


> This nazi stuff is just Russian propaganda, its a little odd as you say. Russia basically has no real argument to attack so they invent this nonsense.
> 
> There are neo nazis in Ukraine and in Russia. Its a fringe ideology. Its also a way to hype up young guys for a very difficult war.
> 
> Nazis dd not hate slavs, they kind fo thought them to be inferior to the Germans, and in many respects we are. I am a slav. We often talk about how we can be more like germans. When germans invaded Russia they were shocked at the living conditions and lack of toilets etc.
> 
> Also germans liberated many slavs from a genocide and mass murder being committed by the Soviets. This was the case in Ukraine so they will have some nazi sympathies, All my family survived nazi occupation. They were only quite bad to the jews and gypsies.
> 
> Anyway this nazi stuff is just a Russian smokescreen.



Ukraine is infested with far right and Russian stance is understandable. They will not tolerate NATO hardware on their border.

The Cuban missile crisis was the same scenario.

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## Chak Bamu

jhungary said:


> Putin should have just wait.
> 
> I don't see how the population of Ukraine will accept a Pro-Russian government? After the same government demolished their home and cause significant civilian casualty. And the more the Russian do it, the deeper the hatred it has become.
> 
> And this is the same cycle we have when we are in Afghanistan. Local hate us because we were there, and because we were there, the Taliban attacks. and because Taliban attacks, we bomb the shit out of their farm, house and so on, because we are under attacks, and because of that, they hated us.


Perhaps in Putin's mind Ukraine is just like Chechnya?


----------



## Patriot forever

Lehrasap said:


> Let us assume that Russian rebels were not the problem before 2014, and it was all Ukraine's fault.
> 
> Still, after capturing Crimea, Putin could still put it on the negotiation table if Ukraine agrees for the guarantee of the rights of Russian minorities and staying neutral.
> 
> Nevertheless, Putin didn't offer Crimea as a bargaining chip, but went further to support the rebels in other areas of Ukraine too.
> 
> And after doing so, if Putin still demands that Ukraine should stay neutral and does not join NATO, then it is not going to happen, while he himself closed the doors for the negotiations through his previous invasions.



I will ask you the same question?

Let's for the sake of argument we analyse the current events, had ukraine took negotiations seriously this war would have never happened. Now the 2 independent republics are off the table as well. ( Remember Putin called for neutrality ( a solid agreement) but Ukraine rejected it that forced Russia to accept the independence of these republics.

Had Ukraine not get involved in geostrategic western agenda before they would have crimea with them as well. Now its gone for good.

The sooner the sense prevails the less Ukraine will loose. The West wants Ukraine to be an Afghanistan for Russia.

Now it is argument of blood, prestige and trust, so that territory is lost.

What ones point of view about this conflict differs is just between

1) Either one pursues western ( US/UK) agenda and uses loss of lives of Ukrainians as a cover up. The ones advocating for the puppet that destroyed his country and only intends to prolong the war.

OR

2) Genuinely cares for the lives lost and wants this to end with minimum loss to Ukraine.

You can easily filter out who's agenda is what from their comments.

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## jamahir

sur said:


> Ukrainians have been killing their own countryperson for years and continue to do so now, as per this French journalist:
> One-eyed instigators have been and are blind to that.



A wonderful journalist. But will her words and witnessing be listened in the UN Terrorist Council, the EU, the White House and their minion media houses like BBC and CNN and in allied media houses say in India ?


----------



## thetutle

Menace2Society said:


> Ukraine is infested with far right and Russian stance is understandable. They will not tolerate NATO hardware on their border.
> 
> The Cuban missile crisis was the same scenario.



Well yeah. they might not like it. but nato hardware is already on Russian border. and they cant do anything. 

What Russia is dong now is prevent Ukraine from having future nato membership. And expanding the Russian empire. 

The end result will be destruction snd impoverishment of Russia. and instead of nato peacefully on its border, it will have a non nato country on its border killing Russian soldiers, armed and funded by nato. 

So they only had 2 choices and picked this one.


----------



## jhungary

tower9 said:


> Ukraine was used as a sacrificial lamb, no doubt.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. I feel Putin miscalculated badly this time. It might be his isolation from all of the years he has had great power, his old age clouding his judgment, his extreme obsession about Russia's fall from power, but I think he miscalculated and fell for NATO's trap.


Agreed, except that this is his own dealing, not a NATO trap. 

The writing are on the wall long time ago, and BoJo and Biden both said numerous time that they are not going to put their troop on the ground and they are not going to put up a No-Fly Zone. NATO made this very clear from the beginning and during the entire war that there will not be physical intervention, which is something Putin should have took notice. 

I mean sure, attack the barrack and roll tank over defence, that I understand, shelling the city indiscriminately in the residential area and using missile and what not in a civil population? That's over doing it. 

Traditional wisdom suggest that what Russia should do is roll over the countryside with superior firepower, and then lay siege the town and population center, this is not done, in fact, the opposite was what Putin doing, they allow the countryside to roam free, and they attack the city center, the reason why the 40 miles convoy still has not arrive in Kyiv on day 10 is because the countryside is not secured and the Ukrainian is fighting asymmetrically. Those fight are supposed to be done with by absolutely massive number. I mean Russia is lucky in my opinion, if Ukraine have a spare mobile armor brigade to hit those convoy on the flank of their axis of advance, those convoy will be long gone. 

Part of me is happy that Russian fight like that, another part of me, the Military Officer side, is pissing at the Russian advance...


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Traditional wisdom suggest that what Russia should do is roll over the countryside with superior firepower, and then lay siege the town and population center, this is not done,



How can they hold the countryside of a country that big with only 170,000 troops?

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## tower9

jhungary said:


> Agreed, except that this is his own dealing, not a NATO trap.
> 
> The writing are on the wall long time ago, and BoJo and Biden both said numerous time that they are not going to put their troop on the ground and they are not going to put up a No-Fly Zone. NATO made this very clear from the beginning and during the entire war that there will not be physical intervention, which is something Putin should have took notice.
> 
> I mean sure, attack the barrack and roll tank over defence, that I understand, shelling the city indiscriminately in the residential area and using missile and what not in a civil population? That's over doing it.
> 
> Traditional wisdom suggest that what Russia should do is roll over the countryside with superior firepower, and then lay siege the town and population center, this is not done, in fact, the opposite was what Putin doing, they allow the countryside to roam free, and they attack the city center, the reason why the 40 miles convoy still has not arrive in Kyiv on day 10 is because the countryside is not secured and the Ukrainian is fighting asymmetrically. Those fight are supposed to be done with by absolutely massive number. I mean Russia is lucky in my opinion, if Ukraine have a spare mobile armor brigade to hit those convoy on the flank of their axis of advance, those convoy will be long gone.
> 
> Part of me is happy that Russian fight like that, another part of me, the Military Officer side, is pissing at the Russian advance...



Well, I definitely feel this was a trap set by NATO. NATO has actively recruited Ukraine even though it has not formally accepted it as a member state. In addition, the West was certainly influencing the country from the 90s to move towards an anti-Russian stance which culminated with the Maidan Movement. IMO, Ukraine was used as a sacrificial lamb and Putin took the bait. Now Russia is completely isolated from Europe, the Nordstream 2 pipeline is dead in the water and the military industrial complex is rejoicing because hundreds of billions will be spent in more weapons sales. 

Ukraine would've been best served by a Switzerland style neutrality stand, it sits on major crossroads and would've prospered by being neutral. However, because it has taken such an anti-Russian stand because of encouragement from the West, the result is what we see today.

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## jhungary

Menace2Society said:


> Ukraine is infested with far right and Russian stance is understandable. They will not tolerate NATO hardware on their border.
> 
> The Cuban missile crisis was the same scenario.


Thing is, NATO already had hardware in Russian border.

Latvia is every bit as close as Ukraine vis-a-vis the distant to Moscow, if not closer, and Estonia is a bit further away, the NATO hardware on Russian border is not an valid argument. Which is now going to be heavily militarized now since this war had happened. There are extra 10,000 NATO troop (4000 US) in Latvia and by the end of next month, there are going to be US radar site and another 10,000 after Biden declare the troop surge from 80,000 to 110,000 in Europe, I mean, there were 0 US Troop in Latvia before this started, now, there are 10,000, and by net month, 20,000. Not to mention the look of Putin Face if Finland decided to join NATO, which is highly likely judging from the latest opinion poll.

Also, don't forget Russia is so scare of NATO equipment in Russia border enough to sell their own advance equipment to Turkey (NATO member) not so long ago....

And finally, would you be able to share to me beside the Azov Battalion (which is 450 men) what kind of Neo Nazi influence are applying to Zelenskyy (A Jew) government? If that is this rampant like everybody said, there should be other group not just Azov....

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## beijingwalker

Russia is pushing back, Ukraine is just the first to start with.

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## Menace2Society

thetutle said:


> Well yeah. they might not like it. but nato hardware is already on Russian border. and they cant do anything.
> 
> What Russia is dong now is prevent Ukraine from having future nato membership. And expanding the Russian empire.
> 
> The end result will be destruction snd impoverishment of Russia. and instead of nato peacefully on its border, it will have a non nato country on its border killing Russian soldiers, armed and funded by nato.
> 
> So they only had 2 choices and picked this one.



Russia is a superpower, they will follow through if they see this as an existential threat. I would expect any of the superpowers to behave the same way.

Do you know what would happen if Mexico started loading up on Russian arms on the US border? Mexico would be obliterated.


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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> How can they hold the countryside of a country that big with only 170,000 troops?


They can't, but they don't need to, you only need to hold until your convoy pass thru the area. 

If you look at Russia advance in the North, they were strung-out and flank were not guarded and each advance were not connected to each other. 

This is heaven for any Armor guy like myself.....

Just read the map, this is on day 8, the black arrow is where you can hit them and make them hurt, and if you look at the Southern part, they aren't advance like that...You can clearly see the difference...


----------



## jhungary

tower9 said:


> Well, I definitely feel this was a trap set by NATO. NATO has actively recruited Ukraine even though it has not formally accepted it as a member state. In addition, the West was certainly influencing the country from the 90s to move towards an anti-Russian stance which culminated with the Maidan Movement. IMO, Ukraine was used as a sacrificial lamb and Putin took the bait. Now Russia is completely isolated from Europe, the Nordstream 2 pipeline is dead in the water and the military industrial complex is rejoicing because hundreds of billions will be spent in more weapons sales.
> 
> Ukraine would've been best served by a Switzerland style neutrality stand, it sits on major crossroads and would've prospered by being neutral. However, because it has taken such an anti-Russian stand because of encouragement from the West, the result is what we see today.



Well, if this is a NATO trap, they wouldn't tell EVERYONE IN THE WORLD that they are not going to get involved from the get go. 

Again, if Ukraine is important for NATO, they would have taken them back in 2008 when they apply, and again in 2015, the truth is, as the former Polish Foreign Minister Sikorski said, "Ukraine is not worth NATO to fight for, you can spare the BS they were divided, that's just an excuse, West Germany was divided when they joined NATO. " This is a very clear idea and NATO is not hiding it any. 

Ukraine were only anti-Russian since they took Crimea, I mean, would you be? 

And I am pretty sure if MIC is involved, they would push for a NATO war, you can't make money selling Javelin or Stinger, you need to be able to sell fighters, ships and advance military equipment.

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## FuturePAF

Considering all the equipment being abandoned by the Russians, according to social media, how many countries have special forces units inside Ukraine right now, trying to get at it? Or do you think it will all just be collected after the war?

Russian full quality systems (not export quality)


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## Hamartia Antidote

thetutle said:


> This nazi stuff is just Russian propaganda, its a little odd as you say. Russia basically has no real argument to attack so they invent this nonsense.
> 
> There are neo nazis in Ukraine and in Russia. Its a fringe ideology. Its also a way to hype up young guys for a very difficult war.
> 
> Nazis dd not hate slavs, they kind fo thought them to be inferior to the Germans, and in many respects we are. I am a slav. We often talk about how we can be more like germans. When germans invaded Russia they were shocked at the living conditions and lack of toilets etc.
> 
> Also germans liberated many slavs from a genocide and mass murder being committed by the Soviets. This was the case in Ukraine so they will have some nazi sympathies, All my family survived nazi occupation. They were only quite bad to the jews and gypsies.
> 
> Anyway this nazi stuff is just a Russian smokescreen.



Well I'm glad I'm not the only one puzzled here about all the Neo-Nazi stuff and yes it does seem like some kind of a smokescreen.


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## jhungary

Kashmiri Rebel said:


> Russia or Putin did not fall for the trap, they have a clear plan. Have you ever thought why the 40 mile convoy is just still. Their aim is not to occupy and annex Kyiv but lay a seige of it and use it for negotiation or some deal. Their AIM is to connect a land bridge from Transnistria to Donetsk, which will be named Novorossiya. After Odesa is taken the convoy will move forward.


The very fact that there is a 40 miles convoy is a problem for Russian planning.

If Russia is serious in this war, and planned to a level of competence, they will seize airfield in and around their objective. But none of them are seized, and the are even still battling for the Antonov Airfield where Russia just lost a General there.

Logistic have several level, some you can brought in by truck, some you can't, there are stuff that you urgently needed like food, water and ammunition to sustain the war effort, you can't bring them over with 40 miles convoy which is still stuck in the outskirt of Kyiv.

Not to mention that convoy is a big target and Russia still do not have Air Superiority on day 10, they can hit them with artillery because that convoy spelled 40 mile of vulnerability..


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## Madni Bappa

RescueRanger said:


> These are the people being provided lethal aid right now: the little man in the photo next to Ivan is *Nestor Shufrych* (Member of Parliament in Ukraine)
> 
> View attachment 820956
> 
> 
> He has been arrested for allegedly taking a photo of a checkpoint and is presently is custody of the vigilante police…
> 
> *Mad Max 5.0 *
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499934121853812740


Talibanisation of Yuuuuurop as one journalist called the continent.

Mind you a lot of terrorist involving white supremacists were influenced by or had travelled to Ukraine. Also they mingle together on white supremacists versions of PDF. Walmart shooter in Texas and Tarrant being some examples. 

So this does have potential of creating some chaos in region. And muslims in Europe could become a target.


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## thetutle

Menace2Society said:


> Russia is a superpower, they will follow through if they see this as an existential threat. I would expect any of the superpowers to behave the same way.
> 
> Do you know what would happen if Mexico started loading up on Russian arms on the US border? Mexico would be obliterated.



This raises the question if Russia is a superpower. We will see its ability to project force. If it fails here, it will be even worse for them. 

Nukes dont make a superpower. North Korea has nukes too. Probably enough nukes to destroy America. But its not a superpower


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## tower9

jhungary said:


> Well, if this is a NATO trap, they wouldn't tell EVERYONE IN THE WORLD that they are not going to get involved from the get go.
> 
> Again, if Ukraine is important for NATO, they would have taken them back in 2008 when they apply, and again in 2015, the truth is, as the former Polish Foreign Minister Sikorski said, "Ukraine is not worth NATO to fight for, you can spare the BS they were divided, that's just an excuse, West Germany was divided when they joined NATO. " This is a very clear idea and NATO is not hiding it any.
> 
> Ukraine were only anti-Russian since they took Crimea, I mean, would you be?
> 
> And I am pretty sure if MIC is involved, they would push for a NATO war, you can't make money selling Javelin or Stinger, you need to be able to sell fighters, ships and advance military equipment.



Ukraine took an anti-Russian turn in 2014, that's why Russia seized Crimea. Although I will agree that doing this was opportunistic and impatient and ultimately self-destructive as it made Ukraine even more anti-Russian, but why would Russia seize Crimea if Ukraine was a friendly country? 

Also, NATO did not take Ukraine precisely because the West was using Ukraine as a sacrificial lamb. It constantly teased about taking it to incite Russia, but it had no real intention to because taking Ukraine would set the West up for a direct conflict with Russia, which it was not going to do. Ukraine as a sacrificial lamb was a useful strategic tool and it has worked with completely shutting Russia off from Europe. 

This was very much related to the Nordstream 2 pipeline. If that project went ahead, Germany and much of Europe would be very dependent on Russia for energy, even more so than they are now. This would mean they could not take as hostile a stand against Russia as Washington would like. Integration of Russia with Europe also means greater Eurasian integration and by that extension, the successful implementation of China's Belt and Road. So sacrificing Ukraine to draw Russia in and thus, sending Europe into hysteria, kills many birds with one stone.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499971978127724551

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499967578927738882

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499965611174240256

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## jhungary

Chak Bamu said:


> Perhaps in Putin's mind Ukraine is just like Chechnya?


Well, I don't think I know what Putin Think, I don't pretend to know what Putin Think, but if I was in Putin position, I wouldn't do what he did, that's what I can say.

Maybe he think there are not going to be an insurgency? Or maybe he don't care, I honestly cannot speak for the mind for another person.

But traditional wisdom suggested that he should have know the circumstance is difference.

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## thetutle

tower9 said:


> This was very much related to the Nordstream 2 pipeline. If that project went ahead, Germany and much of Europe would be very dependent on Russia for energy, even more so than they are now.



So why didn't Russia wait 6 months for Nord stream to become operational? Is Putin that stupid?


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## jhungary

tower9 said:


> *Also, NATO did not take Ukraine precisely because the West was using Ukraine as a sacrificial lamb.*


This is why I said this is not a NATO trap, if you can see it, certainly Putin can see it. And NATO is not hiding it, as they are using Ukraine as a cautionary tale for other European member that were not in NATO. This is as open as it gets....

Either that or this is indeed a trap and Putin is more incompetent than I thought.

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## gambit

jhungary said:


> Well, if this is a NATO trap, they wouldn't tell EVERYONE IN THE WORLD that they are not going to get involved from the get go.
> 
> Again, *if Ukraine is important for NATO, they would have taken them back in 2008 when they apply, and again in 2015*, the truth is, as the former Polish Foreign Minister Sikorski said, "Ukraine is not worth NATO to fight for, you can spare the BS they were divided, that's just an excuse, West Germany was divided when they joined NATO. " This is a very clear idea and NATO is not hiding it any.
> 
> Ukraine were only anti-Russian since they took Crimea, I mean, would you be?
> 
> And I am pretty sure if MIC is involved, they would push for a NATO war, you can't make money selling Javelin or Stinger, you need to be able to sell fighters, ships and advance military equipment.


When Russia promised Ukraine that Russia would allow sovereignty if Ukraine give up those 1700 nuclear warheads, that was when Russia was too weak to forcibly retake those warheads, what if NATO offered membership then? That would add 1700 nuclear warheads to NATO arsenal. But not exactly under NATO control because they were legally Russia's. Not only that, Ukraine did not have a reputation of being a stable power, let alone a nuclear weapons state, like the UK or France. Still, I wonder what would have been the responses if NATO made that offer.

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## Madni Bappa

RescueRanger said:


> These are conscripts kind of the b team as far as Russia is concerned. It’s well equipped troops are fighting near Donbas.


I was going to say this. Because I've seen Russian regulars better equipped that were deployed to Syria.

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## Menace2Society

thetutle said:


> This raises the question if Russia is a superpower. We will see its ability to project force. If it fails here, it will be even worse for them.
> 
> Nukes dont make a superpower. North Korea has nukes too. Probably enough nukes to destroy America. But its not a superpower



The US will travel across the world to pre-empt threats to their borders.

If Russia would like a buffer to Europe then thats just the way of the world. Its always been like this. People are just shocked now because its not a middle easterner dying. These powers fight by proxy and through other countries.

Isn't it interesting how NATO withdrawl from Afg preceeded this move? Months apart. I don't think Russia is willing to play the waiting game anymore.

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## Patriot forever

tower9 said:


> Ukraine took an anti-Russian turn in 2014, that's why Russia seized Crimea. Although I will agree that doing this was opportunistic and impatient and ultimately self-destructive as it made Ukraine even more anti-Russian, but why would Russia seize Crimea if Ukraine was a friendly country?
> 
> Also, NATO did not take Ukraine precisely because the West was using Ukraine as a sacrificial lamb. It constantly teased about taking it to incite Russia, but it had no real intention to because taking Ukraine would set the West up for a direct conflict with Russia, which it was not going to do. Ukraine as a sacrificial lamb was a useful strategic tool and it has worked with completely shutting Russia off from Europe.
> 
> This was very much related to the Nordstream 2 pipeline. If that project went ahead, Germany and much of Europe would be very dependent on Russia for energy, even more so than they are now. This would mean they could not take as hostile a stand against Russia as Washington would like. Integration of Russia with Europe also means greater Eurasian integration and by that extension, the successful implementation of China's Belt and Road. So sacrificing Ukraine to draw Russia in and thus, sending Europe into hysteria, kills many birds with one stone.


In the broader aspect yes the intent was to avert the merger of europes industrialization with Russian resources.

It would have greatly harmed the Anglo European nexus.

Anyways IMO the likely outcome of this war will be the emergence of Europe as a 3rd power axis. People might not see it but with Europe ramping up militarization the less they will be dependant on American bases for protection.

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## thetutle

Madni Bappa said:


> I was going to say this. Because I've seen Russian regulars better equipped that were deployed to Syria.


So russia obviously does not like these soldiers, and wants them to die in the occupation of Ukraine.


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## Madni Bappa

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499962368939466754


All these long columns remind me of playing command and conquer generals. Or A bridge too far movie based on market garden.

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> When Russia promised Ukraine that Russia would allow sovereignty if Ukraine give up those 1700 nuclear warheads, that was when Russia was too weak to forcibly retake those warheads, what if NATO offered membership then? That would add 1700 nuclear warheads to NATO arsenal. But not exactly under NATO control because they were legally Russia's. Not only that, Ukraine did not have a reputation of being a stable power, let alone a nuclear weapons state, like the UK or France. Still, I wonder what would have been the responses if NATO made that offer.


Geopolitically, Russia joining NATO is a non-starter. I mean, that is just the way it is. 

Which make Ukraine, back in 2008 as an allies or you can even call it satellite state of Russia, joining impossible. 

What happened in 1994 was another issue. US cannot allow the "loose" Soviet nuke to be in a place they cannot be accounted for, and the most logical choice is to round them up and give them back to Russia. I mean, do we have enough resource to get 1700+ nuke? Soviet Nuke no less? I don't think so, so with or without NATO, we are not going to keep those nuke anyway, the baseline for us is that it will not fall into some extremist group that can turn one of those into a dirty bomb and use it in US. Loose nuke, and out of work nuclear scientist is a dangerous combo in 1994....


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## tower9

thetutle said:


> So why didn't Russia wait 6 months for Nord stream to become operational? Is Putin that stupid?



That's why I said he miscalculated.

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## Microsoft

beijingwalker said:


> Russia is pushing back, Ukraine is just the first to start with.



Would China feel the same way if they invade Taiwan?


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## thetutle

tower9 said:


> That's why I said he miscalculated.


Oh yeah. he certainly did.

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## beijingwalker

Microsoft said:


> Would China feel the same way if they invade Taiwan?


Taiwan is republic of China, it's about two Chinas being united, it has nothing to do with foreign countries and governments.

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## Chak Bamu

jhungary said:


> Well, I don't think I know what Putin Think, I don't pretend to know what Putin Think, but if I was in Putin position, I wouldn't do what he did, that's what I can say.
> 
> Maybe he think there are not going to be an insurgency? Or maybe he don't care, I honestly cannot speak for the mind for another person.
> 
> But tradition wisdom suggested that he should have know the circumstance is difference.


Yes. Ukraine can not be Chechnya. But seeing what he did in Chechnya & got away with it, I think he might be emboldened to the extent that he thinks that he can repeat the same in Ukraine. Very arrogant, but understandable.


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## Madni Bappa

thetutle said:


> So russia obviously does not like these soldiers, and wants them to die in the occupation of Ukraine.


Looks like Gambit has clocked out and you've clocked in. Dayum

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## Microsoft

beijingwalker said:


> Taiwan is republic of China, it's about two Chinas being united, it has nothing to do with foreign countries and governments.



That's what Putin is saying about Ukraine. He has historically claimed Ukraine to be a made up country and the people to be the same.


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## beijingwalker

Microsoft said:


> That's what Putin is saying about Ukraine. He has historically claimed Ukraine to be a made up country and the people to be the same.


It's not what I say, it always is, go and check the official name of Taiwan yourself.

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## Patriot forever

jhungary said:


> Well, I don't think I know what Putin Think, I don't pretend to know what Putin Think, but if I was in Putin position, I wouldn't do what he did, that's what I can say.
> 
> Maybe he think there are not going to be an insurgency? Or maybe he don't care, I honestly cannot speak for the mind for another person.
> 
> But tradition wisdom suggested that he should have know the circumstance is difference.



Russia is not concerned about Eastern Ukraine.

It will have free republics mostly bordering it. Which is an extremely pro Russian area. They fought for 8 years with many dead.

There was a survey done a day or so ago ( conducted by the West). The people in Eastern Ukraine are still less hostile to Russia than western Ukraine given the fact that the conflict is mostly in Eastern Ukraine.
People forget how ethnic Russians dominated areas were treated before the war and the hostility you are shown on media ( mainstream or projected through social media) is heavily filtered to suite a particular narrative.

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## Clutch

Hamartia Antidote said:


> I'm a bit lost on all this Neo-Nazi stuff. As far as I know both the Ukrainians and Russians are Slavs and thus on Hitler's sh*t list. Or are they treating others on the list even worse...like the Roma.




Actually there are racial fault lines that are culturally and historically significant between the two. For an outsider it may be as confusion as those who may look at the Pakistani versus Indian racial differences. We Pakistani and Indian know of them but may not be evident for others.

Ukrainian look as themselves as the pure race of the original Rus' people:

Rus' people (Old East Slavic: Рѹсь; Modern Belarusian, Russian, Rusyn, and Ukrainian: Русь, romanised: Rus'; Old Norse: Garðar; Greek: Ῥῶς, romanised: Rhos) were an ethnos in early medieval eastern Europe. The scholarly consensus holds that they were originally Norse people, mainly originating from present-day Sweden.

While the Ukrainian look at the Russians as a mongrel race and an un-pure mixture of 
Russian-Slavic, Tatars, Bashkir , Turkic, Chuvashs, Mongols,
Chechens, etc. 

Russia is significantly more ethnically diverse than Ukraine.

It's a stupid racial divide.

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## jhungary

Chak Bamu said:


> Yes. Ukraine can not be Chechnya. But seeing what he did in Chechnya & got away with it, I think he might be emboldened to the extent that he thinks that he can repeat the same in Ukraine. Very arrogant, but understandable.


He wasn't completely gotten away tho. And Ukraine is significantly different than Chechnya

Chechen Republic is a small parcel of landlocked land south of Caucasus with 1.3 million people, Ukraine is the second largest country in Europe at the gateway to EU with 45 millions people. The different is enormous.

One thing I am willing to be tho, it's Putin is quite seriously underestimating EU response, bear in mind NATO and US didn't do shit in this, EU done a lot more damage than US did. I mean the SWIFT and the Central Bank sanction and their effort to pick out and squeeze everyone of those oligarch is probably a surprise to Putin, especially EU depends on his gas to survive....

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## beijingwalker

U.S. Has No Good Choices Dealing With Russian Aggression​


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## jhungary

Patriot forever said:


> Russia is not concerned about Eastern Ukraine.
> 
> It will have free republics mostly bordering it. Which is an extremely pro Russian area. They fought for 8 years with many dead.
> 
> There was a survey done a day or so ago ( conducted by the West). The people in Eastern Ukraine are still less hostile to Russia than western Ukraine given the fact that the conflict is mostly in Eastern Ukraine.
> People forget how ethnic Russians dominated areas were treated before the war and the hostility you are shown on media ( mainstream or projected through social media) is heavily filtered to suite a particular narrative.


Well, less hostile is one thing, whether or not they will raise an insurgency is another. I mean, do you think Eastern Ukraine will be spare if Western Ukraine decided to raise an insurgence? Look back at Afghanistan, not all of the Province are hostile to NATO force, but they engage insurgency with Taliban either way, either they are forced to do it, or they are into the clause, either way, just because Eastern Ukraine are more "Forgiving" than the western part does not mean the entire country will not suffer some degree of hard core insurgency...

And insurgency is bad for Russia in a long term.


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## tower9

Microsoft said:


> That's what Putin is saying about Ukraine. He has historically claimed Ukraine to be a made up country and the people to be the same.



It's absolutely not the same in the eyes of international law. 

China-Taiwan is an unfinished civil war. All of the world's countries recognize One China, the only question is whether they recognize Beijing or Taipei as the seat of China's government. Of course, the vast majority of the world's countries, including the West, all recognize Beijing because it is overwhelmingly more powerful. 

Ukraine has been an independent country since 1991. Ukraine and Russia recognized each other as independent countries and have respective embassies in each others' country. The world recognizes that there is a Ukraine and there is a Russia, two separate countries. 

In addition, there is the question of ethnicity. Even though Ukrainians and Russians are very close, basically Eastern Slavs, they are still considered separate ethnic groups. Of course, there are many ethnic Russians in Ukraine and this is why there are huge separatist movements rising in Ukraine as it takes an anti-Russian course. 

However, in Taiwan, the people there are Han Chinese, the exact same ethnic group as the majority of Mainland China. They also speak Mandarin Chinese and even their local dialect, Taiwanese, is basically derived from the same dialect of Southern Fujian province. 

So in both legal and ethnic terms, the Taiwan issue is an unresolved civil war.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Clutch said:


> It's a stupid racial divide.



They have too much free time on their hands if they are going down this road.

More likely they just hate each other and as mentioned earlier they are just using it as a smokescreen since they both are on the wrong side of the Nazi coin.

I'm sure the German NeoNazis would have no problem running both over with a tank...and they'd run over the American Neo Nazis too just for good measure.

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## khansaheeb

Chak Bamu said:


> Yes. Ukraine can not be Chechnya. But seeing what he did in Chechnya & got away with it, I think he might be emboldened to the extent that he thinks that he can repeat the same in Ukraine. Very arrogant, but understandable.


Putin is a very calculating fox, let's see how it plays out. Russians think it is going to plan, not sure whose plan.

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## tower9

Clutch said:


> Actually there are racial fault lines that are culturally and historically significant between the two. For an outsider it may be as confusion as those who may look at the Pakistani versus Indian racial differences. We Pakistani and Indian know of them but may not be evident for others.
> 
> Ukrainian look as themselves as the pure race of the original Rus' people:
> 
> Rus' people (Old East Slavic: Рѹсь; Modern Belarusian, Russian, Rusyn, and Ukrainian: Русь, romanised: Rus'; Old Norse: Garðar; Greek: Ῥῶς, romanised: Rhos) were an ethnos in early medieval eastern Europe. The scholarly consensus holds that they were originally Norse people, mainly originating from present-day Sweden.
> 
> While the Ukrainian look at the Russians as a mongrel race and an un-pure mixture of
> Russian-Slavic, Tatars, Bashkir , Turkic, Chuvashs, Mongols,
> Chechens, etc.
> 
> Russia is significantly more ethnically diverse than Ukraine.
> 
> It's a stupid racial divide.



The ancient Rus people were basically an integration of a Nordic elite who ruled over a Slavic majority, but eventually they fused into one people. 

Ukrainians are more racially pure and are thoroughly Caucasian. Ethnic Russians are European and share a lot of overlap with Ukrainians and Belarussians, but obviously Russia is a massive continental country with many other ethnic groups, so there is a lot more intermixing with Asiatic ethnic groups. Take their defense minister, Shoigu, for example. He is half Tuvan and half Russian. The perception of Russia as a more racially heterogeneous country has often been fuel for the anti-Russian sentiments of certain right wing Neo Nazi groups in Ukraine.

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## thetutle

tower9 said:


> In addition, there is the question of ethnicity. Even though Ukrainians and Russians are very close, basically Eastern Slavs, they are still considered separate ethnic groups. Of course, there are many ethnic Russians in Ukraine and this is why there are huge separatist movements rising in Ukraine as it takes an anti-Russian course.
> 
> However, in Taiwan, the people there are Han Chinese, the exact same ethnic group as the majority of Mainland China. They also speak Mandarin Chinese and even their local dialect, Taiwanese, is basically derived from the same dialect of Southern Fujian province.


I am not sure that the Taiwanese Chinese more similar to Beijing Chinese than Russians are to Ukranians. 

I believe Russians and Ukranians are more similar than different Chinese groups. 

I also think the Bosnian language is way way more similar to Russian than Cantonese is to Mandarin. This "Han Chinese thing is not what many people think". 

I always compare the term "Han Chinese" to the term "white European".


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## Microsoft

tower9 said:


> It's absolutely not the same in the eyes of international law.
> 
> China-Taiwan is an unfinished civil war. All of the world's countries recognize One China, the only question is whether they recognize Beijing or Taipei as the seat of China's government. Of course, the vast majority of the world's countries, including the West, all recognize Beijing because it is overwhelmingly more powerful.
> 
> Ukraine has been an independent country since 1991. Ukraine and Russia recognized each other as independent countries and have respective embassies in each others' country. The world recognizes that there is a Ukraine and there is a Russia, two separate countries.
> 
> In addition, there is the question of ethnicity. Even though Ukrainians and Russians are very close, basically Eastern Slavs, they are still considered separate ethnic groups. Of course, there are many ethnic Russians in Ukraine and this is why there are huge separatist movements rising in Ukraine as it takes an anti-Russian course.
> 
> However, in Taiwan, the people there are Han Chinese, the exact same ethnic group as the majority of Mainland China. They also speak Mandarin Chinese and even their local dialect, Taiwanese, is basically derived from the same dialect of Southern Fujian province.
> 
> So in both legal and ethnic terms, the Taiwan issue is an unresolved civil war.



Sure you can justify it how you like but Putin's justification is valid in its own way too. Many of the reasons (maybe not all) are the same justifications Putin has used for invasion. And for practical purposes during war time international law becomes "open to interpretation". For example in case of war Taiwan may officially declare independence and then international law says something else.


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## tower9

Microsoft said:


> Sure you can justify it how you like but Putin's justification is valid in its own way too. Many of the reasons (maybe not all) are the same justifications Putin has used for invasion. And for practical purposes during war time international law becomes "open to interpretation". For example in case of war Taiwan may officially declare independence and then international law says something else.



No. This is a matter of international law, not opinion. This is why China, even though it is an ally of Russia, won't support Russia's unilateral aggression against Ukraine, because it is a violation of territorial integrity and sovereignty. Those concepts actually protect China's claim on Taiwan, instead of hurt it, in the eyes of international law. This is why China is very committed to defending those concepts.

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## gambit

jhungary said:


> Geopolitically, Russia joining NATO is a non-starter. I mean, that is just the way it is.
> 
> Which make Ukraine, back in 2008 as an allies or you can even call it satellite state of Russia, joining impossible.
> 
> What happened in 1994 was another issue. US cannot allow the "loose" Soviet nuke to be in a place they cannot be accounted for, and the most logical choice is to round them up and give them back to Russia. I mean, *do we have enough resource to get 1700+ nuke? Soviet Nuke no less?* I don't think so, so with or without NATO, we are not going to keep those nuke anyway, the baseline for us is that it will not fall into some extremist group that can turn one of those into a dirty bomb and use it in US. Loose nuke, and out of work nuclear scientist is a dangerous combo in 1994....


Probably not 1700. But...

The Soviet Union collapsed in Dec '91. One night in Aug '92, we just completed some night air refuel training and waiting for four crews to land and that would the end of the shift. I can still remember that night. At about 2200, the wing king called down and effectively shut down all four squadrons' ramps. Not the runway. Just the squadrons' areas. We were told to get off the flightline and no one was to get out until the wing king himself said clear. Then we saw the cops ran all over the place and it looked like they called up even the off duty guys. The next thing shocked the shit out of all of us: They turned off all the stadium lights. The flightline was all dark. We can barely make out any shape from the lights from the rest of the base.

Then we all heard the distinctive whine of a C-5. Any AF guy or gal who have been on the flightline long enough would learn to know that whine. That C-5 taxied all the way to one end of the flightline that was no longer in use. I know that area because the base allowed the local SCCA club to use for racing and I was in that club racing my IROC-Z Camaro. Then a chain of fuel trucks ran out and for a couple hrs they refueled and do whatever some things to that C-5. That C-5 never shut off its engines. Then the C-5 taxied out and took off. Then they turned back on the stadium lights and allowed us to return to regular duties on the flightline.

For yrs, in our reunions and over beers and pizzas we occasionally speculated about that night. Never had a clue what happened. Then on our 2002 reunion, we met a retired CMSGT who was chief of the Transient Alert group in '92. The T/A group is responsible for meeting and taking care of any visiting aircraft. He told us that C-5 flight engineer said they were carrying nukes from an eastern European country that sold US the nukes. We were: *SOLD...???*  Eventually, it came out that the former Soviet satellites were short on cash so they were selling anything they could disassemble.

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## Patriot forever

jhungary said:


> Well, less hostile is one thing, whether or not they will raise an insurgency is another. I mean, do you think Eastern Ukraine will be spare if Western Ukraine decided to raise an insurgence? Look back at Afghanistan, not all of the Province are hostile to NATO force, but they engage insurgency with Taliban either way, either they are forced to do it, or they are into the clause, either way, just because Eastern Ukraine are more "Forgiving" than the western part does not mean the entire country will not suffer some degree of hard core insurgency...
> 
> And insurgency is bad for Russia in a long term.



There was an insurgency in Ukraine for the last 8 years. What were the American mercenaries doing in Ukraine or on the opposite side who was supporting the now independent republics.

Coming to insurgency alot of it depends on the West aswell ( specifically the Anglo block). This will keep the Europe hooked and serve their purpose in this regard.

Any insurgency will not only affect Russia but also Europe. Its in neither of their interests, most of all common folk in Ukraine.


----------



## Clutch

Shooting White journalist --> Bad


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499971978127724551

Shooting Brown Journalist --> Good

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## gambit

Clutch said:


> Shooting White journalist --> Bad
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499971978127724551
> 
> Shooting Brown Journalist --> Good


Let us not jump to conclusion.

You have .1 second to shoot or no shoot.







In that .1 second, your blood pressure is elevated, high on adrenaline to the point of vomiting, some hearing loss and ears ringing, physically stressed from carrying a heavy load as well as tired from running, and your vision is degraded from smoke or dust or rain or tears or even blood.

Shoot or no shoot.

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## That Guy

Trango Towers said:


> And are wars won simply by how many you kill? What a stupid thing to say?


Not what I said. Lol


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## Microsoft

gambit said:


> Let us not jump to conclusion.
> 
> You have .1 second to shoot or no shoot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In that .1 second, your blood pressure is elevated, high on adrenaline to the point of vomiting, some hearing loss and ears ringing, physically stressed from carrying a heavy load as well as tired from running, and your vision is degraded from smoke or dust or rain or tears or even blood.
> 
> Shoot or no shoot.



You mean the Israelis had 0.1second to decide whether or not to carry out their premeditated missile strike at a journalism hq? Also who else gets this special benefit of a doubt? What if the Russians kill a journalist?

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## Mrc

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499962368939466754




All infantry except driver shud b on road when convoy stops .not sitting their trucks


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## jhungary

Patriot forever said:


> There was an insurgency in Ukraine for the last 8 years. What were the American mercenaries doing in Ukraine or on the opposite side who was supporting the now independent republics.
> 
> Coming to insurgency alot of it depends on the West aswell ( specifically the Anglo block). This will keep the Europe hooked and serve their purpose in this regard.
> 
> Any insurgency will not only affect Russia but also Europe. Its in neither of their interests, most of all common folk in Ukraine.


Problem is, neither NATO or EU or Russia can stop an insurgency from coming,

Again, this is no longer about NATO or EU anymore, once Russia uses unrestricted warfare, that is where there are no return for the Ukrainian. It's one thing for normal everyday Ukrainian to hold a cordial view with Russia, another thing when they started bombing your home. 

And as I stated, this is going to be bad for Russia, especially it would be EU who is financing the Insurgency. Problem is, EU is in a financial position to support an Ukrainian insurgency. but Russia is not so much.


----------



## Titanium100

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499929669533065217
> View attachment 820947


To many layman in the US

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## jamahir

Zibago said:


> From Amar ALi Jan owner of billion rs Nayab Garden real estate to western puppet Nighat Dad its full of fifth columnists



1. Amar Ali Jan ? You mean Ammar Ali Jan who is a male progressive activist ? Is he owner of Nayab Garden Real Estate ? If so he will be among a few rich people who have empathy. It has happened before that revolutionaries, revolutions and progressive activism have had rich backers. Karl Marx himself had his friend and comrade Friedrich Engels who contributed to the cause through his wealthy father and there was another wealthy helper, Lion Philips. And Ammar himself is an activist too.

2. Nighat Dad's wiki says she has been involved in various women's causes including helping divorced women get custody of their children and campaigning against acid attack. What's wrong with that ?



Zibago said:


> There was a woman march in US that was mainly used to pressurize Trump but as soon as it became critical of Israel



You didn't complete the sentence. 



gambit said:


> What/who is preventing Cuba or NKR from trying to convince their ideas are superior to the America idea? Do they not have newspaper? Printing? Writing? Technical experts?



Before the 2011 invasion of Libya the Green Book which was the basis of Libya's Communist-Socialist political and socio-economic system called Jamahiriya, that book had been printed in paper form in various European languages and also I think in Russian and of course Arabic and available in various places. From the wiki about it :


> The book caused a scandal in 1987, when West German ice hockey club ECD Iserlohn, led by Heinz Weifenbach, signed a US$900,000 advertising deal for the book.[14]
> 
> On a 2008 visit to Libya it was reported by Libyan state media that Bolivian President Evo Morales remarked "I read the Green Book, studied it and I am enthusiastic about the thinking spelled out in the Green Book"


I will ask you to read the Green Book in its website copy on marxists.org. It is an advancement of the previous progressive left-wing ideas and is written in simple language. A marvelous work. The political system derived from it is what traditional Communism had as one of its desires - true democracy - through direct democracy attached to a progressive socio-economic framework. Please read this post of mine on origin of democracy and what it is, what not, and an article quoted in it about Libya's application of it.



gambit said:


> The US is not perfect. Never said we are perfect. But the US is a great country and the American people is a great people. You do not have to be perfect in order to be great. In fact, if you are perfect you cannot be great because 'greatness' imply you exceeded an expectation or jumped over a bar that is beyond most reach. Perfection is the nth standard that no one can reach. So when people looks at the America idea, they do not see perfection but only greatness, so many of them booked the next liner passage to America. In the end, *YOU* lose this contest of ideas.



If USA is not perfect what was the point of those countless invasions, sabotages, subversions, sanctions and assassinations done by it since the end of World War 2 in its attempt to impose its own "perfect" system upon the world ? Why does the USA government maintain a huge invasions-oriented military - its own and of its allies ?


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## jhungary

gambit said:


> Probably not 1700. But...
> 
> The Soviet Union collapsed in Dec '91. One night in Aug '92, we just completed some night air refuel training and waiting for four crews to land and that would the end of the shift. I can still remember that night. At about 2200, the wing king called down and effectively shut down all four squadrons' ramps. Not the runway. Just the squadrons' areas. We were told to get off the flightline and no one was to get out until the wing king himself said clear. Then we saw the cops ran all over the place and it looked like they called up even the off duty guys. The next thing shocked the shit out of all of us: They turned off all the stadium lights. The flightline was all dark. We can barely make out any shape from the lights from the rest of the base.
> 
> Then we all heard the distinctive whine of a C-5. Any AF guy or gal who have been on the flightline long enough would learn to know that whine. That C-5 taxied all the way to one end of the flightline that was no longer in use. I know that area because the base allowed the local SCCA club to use for racing and I was in that club racing my IROC-Z Camaro. Then a chain of fuel trucks ran out and for a couple hrs they refueled and do whatever some things to that C-5. That C-5 never shut off its engines. Then the C-5 taxied out and took off. Then they turned back on the stadium lights and allowed us to return to regular duties on the flightline.
> 
> For yrs, in our reunions and over beers and pizzas we occasionally speculated about that night. Never had a clue what happened. Then on our 2002 reunion, we met a retired CMSGT who was chief of the Transient Alert group in '92. The T/A group is responsible for meeting and taking care of any visiting aircraft. He told us that C-5 flight engineer said they were carrying nukes from an eastern European country that sold US the nukes. We were: *SOLD...???*  Eventually, it came out that the former Soviet satellites were short on cash so they were selling anything they could disassemble.



When I was in Afghanistan, there was this upper echelon CIA station guy who saw the curtain come down, we would talked to him and he have some crazy account how his team is tasked to recover unaccounted for Soviet Nuke by any mean necessary, and he told us that they were actually working with the KGB on that. A lot of crazy story I have heard.......


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## vizier

Eu or nato countries cannot provide aircover which means a direct war with Russia. They sent manpads and atgms and they have limited effectiveness. They cant send bulky patriot sams or samp/t sams they can be taken out by arm strikes and each are expensive installations.

However just like Russia sent Buk batteries and possibly Pantsyr in first stages of Ukraine civil war inside Donbass , Eu has similar medium altitude smaller sam systems. These are between the manpads and long range sam systems. If the war prolongs Russian capture of areas would also come to a halt because these can be transferred more easily than larger sam systems.


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## Zibago

jamahir said:


> 1. Amar Ali Jan ? You mean Ammar Ali Jan who is a male progressive activist ? Is he owner of Nayab Garden Real Estate ?


His father is but that means he was born into privilege


jamahir said:


> Is he owner of Nayab Garden Real Estate ? If so he will be among a few rich people who have empathy. It has happened before that revolutionaries, revolutions and progressive activism have had rich backers. Karl Marx himself had his friend and comrade Friedrich Engels who


In Pakistan all these socialist clowns are just NED backed puppets with no roots among the actual working class


jamahir said:


> 2. Nighat Dad's wiki says she has been involved in various women's causes including helping divorced women get custody of their children and campaigning against acid attack. What's wrong with that ?


She too is one of those NED clowns 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1311524880400158720Sadly due to Pakistan being a democratic country we really cant do anything about it


jamahir said:


> You didn't complete the sentence.


They were disposed off








Women’s March Roiled by Accusations of Anti-Semitism (Published 2018)


As the second anniversary of the Women’s March approaches, charges of anti-Semitism are overshadowing the movement and plans for more marches.




www.nytimes.com

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## thetutle

jamahir said:


> If USA is not perfect what was the point of those countless invasions, sabotages, subversions, sanctions and assassinations done by it since the end of World War 2 in its attempt to impose its own "perfect" system upon the world ? Why does the USA government maintain a huge invasions-oriented military - its own and of its allies ?


It’s what the USA calculated is in its best interests. And it can get away with it. If post Soviet Russia wants to play that game it is welcome. We will see how that work out for them.


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## lamdacore

LeGenD said:


> You are very optimistic about Russian options and leverage.
> 
> Vladimir Putin was doing well until he decided to invade Ukraine. Have a look at my take on this matter:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> Does someone know where Mexico stands on this conflict? Has Mexico put sanctions on Russia as well?
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin have managed to rejuvenate NATO instead; more countries are willing to join NATO now:
> 
> 
> 
> Kosovo parliament urges government to start NATO membership bid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neutral Finland, Sweden Warm To Idea Of NATO Membership
> 
> 
> Through the Cold War and the decades since, nothing could persuade Finns and Swedes that they would be better off joining NATO — until Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.huffpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian economy took a hit from the sanctions imposed on it by USA in 2014 - dropped from 5th spot to 11th spot in the (2014 - 2021) period. This was the situation when much of Europe was supporting Russia all along.
> 
> But things are changing now - and fast.
> 
> You mentioned CIPS but is it good enough to rescue Russian economy by itself? It will be a lifeline at most. Fairly good explanation in following article:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘No desire to pay’: China’s manufacturers feel the pain of Ukraine crisis
> 
> 
> China is the largest trading partner of both Russia and Ukraine, but sanctions from the US and its European allies have started to be felt by customers in both countries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.scmp.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this:
> 
> _“Both the US and UK financial sanctions against Russia will lead to an increase in the volume of yuan transactions in terms of Russian-Chinese trade. This may be one reason for the strong yuan, but a strong yuan is bad news for China’s export sector,” Zheng said._
> 
> More:
> 
> 
> 
> Russia can’t use cryptos on a broad scale to evade sanctions: Experts
> 
> 
> 
> Europe is in search for alternative to Russian gas in Africa:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/europe-could-reduce-imports-of-russian-gas-by-more-than-a-third-in-a-year-iea-0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AZA Finance FX Week Ahead: Russia trade war puts African gas in focus
> 
> 
> As Vladimir Putin’s war in Ukraine continues to intensify and Western sanctions on Russia mount, so the likelihood increases of Moscow retaliating by shutting off its gas supply to European markets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thebftonline.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.ippmedia.com/en/features/europe-can-look-africa%C2%A0-preferred-gas-supplier
> 
> 
> 
> LNG also stepping up its game:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Energy group safeguarding Europe’s LNG supply
> 
> 
> An association of 84 companies involve in global liquefied natural gas (LNG) trade is working to ensure that a stable supply of LNG remains available as the Russia-Ukraine conflict continues to escalate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gasworld.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let us not delude ourselves - some of the greatest minds are in the Western hemisphere.
> 
> The rules of game will change for all involved. China will also have to come to terms with appreciation in Yuan in coming years. There are trade-offs.



I am not saying that the Russia (Putin) is going to change the world order. He is in for some pain as a result of the war. However, these sanctions are double edged. Russia which up to this point has been pretty tame will now seek to flex muscles elsewhere. Whether those muscles are strong enough is a different matter.

As for countries joining Nato, this is a kneejerk reaction. The cost of the alliance is a significant burden and a bill hardly anyone is willing to pay. Lets not kid ourselves, Russia is relevant and will always be relevant.

You claim that the Western hemisphese has some of the greatest minds....who had to band together to take on a single state...the USSR who was reknowned worldwide for having some of the greatest minds and several occasions beating the western world in achievements.

I am now here to advocate for Putin. I am merely trying to prophesize what may be going through his mind and the reason of launching an invasion of Ukraine.

Right now Zelensky is struggling to even get air cover from Nato even when Ukraine is a sizeable democracy and one that should be protected. Once Puting gets a handle, if he does, then the real politik will come into picture.

If the west can impose sanctions on Russia, then Russia can start arming and helping anti-West elements. This is a state that can cause severe discomfort for the West around the world.

However, I am hopeful, that Putin will not linger in Ukraine and remove zelensky or make a neutrality deal after dishing out punishment. Part of leaving Ukraine would be an expectation to the return of status quo to whatever extent.



sammuel said:


> Putin was offered all he wanted to stop this.
> 
> With a flick of his finger he could have spared millions of refugees , who knows how many lives and how many ruined cities.
> 
> But he thought this world crises is what the world needed after two years of corona virus .
> 
> Fail to see the admiration.
> 
> ~


There is no admiration just attempting to put in perspective the reason for his invasion. As for offering everything he sought, that is a big no. He did not get what he was seeking and there was extreme resistance and threats issued in his face.

Basically, the west cornered him and he reacted. Simple as that. There is no one else to blame but the west for their miscalculation of Putin.

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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500006253187289090

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500006142906449921

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499998135145357312

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## Dungeness

Interesting point of view! Former senior adviser to secretary of defense, Col. Doug McGregor, on Fox News:

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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500008177529675776

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## Lehrasap

Patriot forever said:


> I will ask you the same question?
> 
> Let's for the sake of argument we analyse the current events, had ukraine took negotiations seriously this war would have never happened. Now the 2 independent republics are off the table as well. ( Remember Putin called for neutrality ( a solid agreement) but Ukraine rejected it that forced Russia to accept the independence of these republics.
> 
> Had Ukraine not get involved in geostrategic western agenda before they would have crimea with them as well. Now its gone for good.
> 
> The sooner the sense prevails the less Ukraine will loose. The West wants Ukraine to be an Afghanistan for Russia.
> 
> Now it is argument of blood, prestige and trust, so that territory is lost.
> 
> What ones point of view about this conflict differs is just between
> 
> 1) Either one pursues western ( US/UK) agenda and uses loss of lives of Ukrainians as a cover up. The ones advocating for the puppet that destroyed his country and only intends to prolong the war.
> 
> OR
> 
> 2) Genuinely cares for the lives lost and wants this to end with minimum loss to Ukraine.
> 
> You can easily filter out who's agenda is what from their comments.



Perhaps you are not realizing, but your argument is based only upon "Might is Right". And your suggestion is to lay down weapons to the "Blackmailing".
And if you reject the blackmailing, they you blame the victim to be the traitor and agent of West (which make the majority of Ukrainians to be the agents of west). 
Your recipe is only to become a slave of Putin in order to save their life. Otherwise, you put the loss of lives upon the victims and not upon the aggressor. 

It would be same if someone suggest Pakistan to give away the Kashmir to India, while India has more might, and Pakistan has become bank-corrupt due to these clashes and wars with India. And Pakistan is only fighting due to its false ego ..... etc. etc. etc. 

Please don't be angry after hearing these suggestions about Pakistan. It is the same with the Ukrainians when such suggestions are given to them and they also become angry upon it.


----------



## khansaheeb

RescueRanger said:


> Couldn’t agree more, the main this is that he’s given his people someone to rally around and that is commendable.
> 
> Also his last appeal to Putin in TV felt sincere.


He is got is country invaded as a result of his poor diplomacy. He reminds of UK's Tommy Robinson another extremist who jumped on the cheap nationalist bandwagon. Getting your country destroyed and your people conquered is nothing to be proud of.

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## Titanium100

Lmao at indian viral fake news as they were claiming russia would declare ceasefire to escort Indians but their minister denies this news as made news

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500008988410220547
These Indians failed to evecuate when other nations pulled out their citizens no need for fake news you gotta make way for yourself


----------



## LeGenD

Zibago said:


> His father is but that means he was born into privilege
> 
> In Pakistan all these socialist clowns are just NED backed puppets with no roots among the actual working class
> 
> She too is one of those NED clowns
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1311524880400158720Sadly due to Pakistan being a democratic country we really cant do anything about it
> 
> They were disposed off
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Women’s March Roiled by Accusations of Anti-Semitism (Published 2018)
> 
> 
> As the second anniversary of the Women’s March approaches, charges of anti-Semitism are overshadowing the movement and plans for more marches.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com


My question is this: what is PM Imran Khan doing about it?


----------



## Lehrasap

Patriot forever said:


> There was an insurgency in Ukraine for the last 8 years. What were the American mercenaries doing in Ukraine or on the opposite side who was supporting the now independent republics.
> 
> Coming to insurgency alot of it depends on the West aswell ( specifically the Anglo block). This will keep the Europe hooked and serve their purpose in this regard.
> 
> Any insurgency will not only affect Russia but also Europe. Its in neither of their interests, most of all common folk in Ukraine.



How do you put the blame of insurgency upon the West? They didn't annexed Crimea, but it was Putin who did it, and never offered back Crimean on the negotiation table for peace and neutrality of Ukraine. 

This annexation is the cause that Zelensky came to power, and this is the cause that Ukraine wanted to join NATO. 

Your problem is this that you are asking only and only from Ukraine, but demanding nothing from Putin. 

Putin closed the doors of any negotiation, and peace, and end of surgency by annexing Crimea, and then making more and more demands from Ukraine instead of solving the problem of his illegal annexation.


----------



## GumNaam

Patriot forever said:


> Combine these 2 tweets and anyone with basic IQ will understand the war..
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499907828600885248(the video lays it bare)
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499837835758604290
> The assessment was spot on. Just that CIA saw it as an opportunity and flamed it for its strategic interests. Everything mentioned in 2008 happened, from ethnic cleansing to civil war to Russia ukraine war. Each word has come true.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499853704383500291

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## beijingwalker

thetutle said:


> I also think the Bosnian language is way way more similar to Russian than Cantonese is to Mandarin. This "Han Chinese thing is not what many people think".


What an ignorant remark... you believe Taiwan people speak Cantonese?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Lehrasap

lamdacore said:


> I am not saying that the Russia (Putin) is going to change the world order. He is in for some pain as a result of the war. However, these sanctions are double edged. Russia which up to this point has been pretty tame will now seek to flex muscles elsewhere. Whether those muscles are strong enough is a different matter.



It may be the opposite. If Putin wins it without any serious consequences, then it will be a green light for him to invade other lands. It will also encourage then China to attack Taiwan. It will then encourage all the mightier powers to attack the neighboring weaker countries and impose their demands. 



lamdacore said:


> Basically, the west cornered him and he reacted. Simple as that. There is no one else to blame but the west for their miscalculation of Putin.



Basically, Putin cornered himself by annexing Crimea previously, and then never putting Crimean upon the negotiation table as bargaining chip for peace and neutrality of Ukraine. 

It is exactly the same that Pakistan denied any peace solution with India without the freedom of Kashmir.


----------



## jamahir

Zibago said:


> His father is but that means he was born into privilege



He may have been born into privilege but you should applaud him because he is using that privilege ( money and network ) towards progressive causes. It's not like that he has built a two billion dollar 27-storey "house" and kept 168 cars there like Mukesh Ambani did and he ( Ammar ) goes on three hajjs every five years to collect divine points for himself while the society surrounding him suffers and he doesn't care. 



Zibago said:


> In Pakistan all these socialist clowns are just NED backed puppets with no roots among the actual working class



The "Leather Jacket Girl" Arooj Aurangezb and her Socialist comrades certainly are not NED agents. Please watch this nice interview of hers and of her comrades from 2019. The event from which they because famous, Faiz Mela, celebrates Faiz Ahmed Faiz who was also a Socialist who in 1951 was involved in an attempt in bringing Socialist governance in Pakistan. Would you call Faiz a NED agent too ? On the contrary he received the Lenin Peace Prize. And Arooj's group's inspirations included the late Mashal Khan who was lynched in Pakistan in 2017 by a mob of mullah-minds and it is such mullah-minds who are the real agents of Western governments and are the first ones to stone Aurat March.

@SIPRA, can you present a simple ( for me ) couplet of Faiz, or perhaps you know one of Mashal, that is connected with revolutionary thought including recognizing disparities and wrongs ?



Zibago said:


> She too is one of those NED clowns
> Sadly due to Pakistan being a democratic country we really cant do anything about it



Hmm, she then is one of the co-opted ones who may be good of heart but doesn't see she is being used.



Zibago said:


> They were disposed off
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Women’s March Roiled by Accusations of Anti-Semitism (Published 2018)
> 
> 
> As the second anniversary of the Women’s March approaches, charges of anti-Semitism are overshadowing the movement and plans for more marches.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com



You mean the Jewish woman was used to divide the march ? And the article condemns Louis Farrakhan of the Nation of Islam movement which was supposed to provide security to the march. Farrakhan was one of the few Western bloc people to support Gaddafi and the Libyan Jamahiriya in 2011 when the Western governments used crooks and crooked methods to invade Libya.



thetutle said:


> It’s what the USA calculated is in its best interests. And it can get away with it



Yes, tragedy it is because it can get away with it. The minds of a lot of the world's masses can be so easily controlled by Western government false propaganda.

But USA governments should really be seeing that its best interests are in the welfare of its citizens and in seeing a progressive and peaceful world and peace in the world until now is what USA governments have not been doing. USA's own citizens are miserable in ways big and small while the two-party-cycle USA governments invade other countries to install fake democracy and oppression.



thetutle said:


> If post Soviet Russia wants to play that game it is welcome. We will see how that work out for them.



Can you elaborate ?


----------



## khansaheeb

Ukraine war: Ukraine can absolutely win against Russia - Blinken


US Secretary of State Antony Blinken tells the BBC the Ukrainian people's defeat is not inevitable.



www.bbc.com





Ukraine war: Ukraine can absolutely win against Russia - Blinken​Published7 hours ago
Share

Media caption,
Watch: Secretary of State Anthony Blinken says the US does not seek regime change in Russia
*US Secretary of State Antony Blinken has told the BBC that he is convinced Ukraine can win its war with Russia.*
He could not say how long the conflict would last, but insisted that Ukraine's defeat was not inevitable.
Mr Blinken praised the "extraordinary resilience" of the Ukrainian people.
"If it's the intention of Moscow to try somehow to topple the government and install its own puppet regime, 45 million Ukrainians are going to reject that one way or the other," he said.
The war has already not gone as Russian President Vladimir Putin might have planned, he added.
Stiff resistance by Ukrainian forces continued to hamper Russian advances across the country on the ninth day of the invasion.

In the south, Russian forces captured areas along the Black Sea coast, and the port city of Mariupol remained surrounded. But the governor of Mykolaiv said Russian troops had been driven out of the city.
Ukraine's second city of Kharkiv, in the north, also remained under siege.

Media caption,
Watch: Sarah Rainsford reports from a metro station in Kharkiv where people have been sheltering from attacks
Mr Blinken spoke to BBC diplomatic correspondent James Landale after meeting his European Union counterparts in Brussels at the start of a six-day trip to Europe.
He said the international community was committed to doing everything it could to help Ukraine and also to put "excruciating pressure on Russia to end this war of choice that Vladimir Putin started".
Asked if he was convinced Ukraine could win, he said: "Over time, absolutely."
"I can't tell you how long this will go on. I can't tell you how long it will take. But the idea that Russia can subjugate to its will 45 million people who are ardently fighting for their future and their freedom, that does not involve Russia having its thumb on Ukraine, that tells you a lot."






Russia attacks Ukraine: More coverage​
LIVE: Latest updates from on the ground
THE BASICS: Why is Putin invading Ukraine?
SCENARIOS: Five ways the war in Ukraine might end
INNER CIRCLE: Who's in Putin's entourage, running the war?
IN DEPTH: Full coverage of the conflict





Mr Blinken also said he was concerned about escalation.
"It's something we care about and are focused on because the only thing worse than a war which is contained to Ukraine is one that escalates even further and goes beyond it."
He warned that Russian forces were using "increasingly brutal" methods against civilians in Ukraine, and that there had been tremendous human suffering as a result.
"We're seeing Russia go after critical infrastructure that's denying Ukrainians water, denying them electricity, denying them heat," he said. "Those methods are, unfortunately, tragically, part of the Russian playbook under President Putin. And I think we're likely to see more of that."
Asked if the US would seek a change in Moscow's leadership to bring an end to the invasion, he replied: "We don't seek that, and in any event it's not up to us. The Russian people need to decide their leadership."
"What I would say to the Russian people is: How in the world is this war of aggression... advancing your interests, your needs?" he added.

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## GumNaam

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499929669533065217
> View attachment 820947




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500016300994666497


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## gambit

Microsoft said:


> You mean the Israelis had 0.1second to decide whether or not to carry out their premeditated missile strike at a journalism hq? Also who else gets this special benefit of a doubt? What if the Russians kill a journalist?


No, I mean what I have always say on this forum: Do not jump to conclusion. But again, as I often said, I do not debate people to change their minds but to present an alternative viewpoint to the many unknown silent readers out there. Is it too much to wait for some more details, even incomplete details? You do not have to answer. That was a rhetorical question. The image I posted is evident enough that in the heat of combat, it is not always clear on what you see, or what you think you saw when you finally have time to rest and reflect. Embedded journalists, aka 'embeds', know the dangers of what they do, which includes being mistaken for an enemy soldier. I met a couple from Desert Storm.

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## Iñigo

...

(1) Crimea is Russia before California, Texas, Nevada was USA

(2) Ukraine seceded from the USSR after a referendum, and Crimea seceded from Ukraine after a referendum

Enough of flooding this thread with propaganda.

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## khansaheeb

US: Ukraine has ‘significant majority’ of its military aircraft


NATO rules out ‘no-fly’ zone as Russian forces threaten Kyiv and Odesa, bombard cities of Mariupol and Kherson.




www.aljazeera.com





US: Ukraine has ‘significant majority’ of its military aircraft​_NATO rules out ‘no-fly’ zone as Russian forces threaten Kyiv and Odesa, bombard cities of Mariupol and Kherson._






Wreckage of a Russian Air Force combat fighter is seen in a field outside the town of Volnovakha in the Donetsk region [Ukraine Joint Forces Operation/Handout via Reuters]
Published On 4 Mar 20224 Mar 2022
Ukraine still has a “significant majority” of its military aircraft available nine days after Russian forces started their invasion of the country, a United States defence official told the Reuters news service on Friday.
Vastly outmatched by Russia’s military in terms of numbers and firepower, the fact that Ukraine’s own air force is still flying and its air defenses are still deemed to be viable has surprised military experts.

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## maverick1977

Lehrasap said:


> I don't agree.
> 
> Putin closed all the doors for Ukraine to stay neutral by occupying the Crimea.
> 
> Still today, Putin didn't put Crimea on the negotiation table i.e. if Ukraine becomes neutral, then Russia will return the Crimea.
> 
> Therefore, it is Putin who pushed Ukraine towards NATO for their defense.
> 
> In simple words, till the time Putin does not put Crimea on the negotiation table for peace, till that time it is impossible for Ukrainians to become a neutral state.
> 
> And Zelensky is not a puppet in the present situation, while MAJORITY of Ukrainians are opposing Putin and majority of them want to join NATO.


putin took crimea in 2014, Nato and Ukraine talks started in 2008 onwards.. I do not agree with your analysis.,

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## Iñigo

It is much more reasonable to discuss the annexation of California and negotiate its return to Mexico than to discuss the secession of Crimea, which has been Russia for centuries, but apparently someone is defending an internal administrative decision of the USSR in 1954.

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## gambit

jhungary said:


> When I was in Afghanistan, there was this upper echelon CIA station guy who saw the curtain come down, we would talked to him and he have some crazy account how *his team is tasked to recover unaccounted for Soviet Nuke by any mean necessary, and he told us that they were actually working with the KGB on that.* A lot of crazy story I have heard.......


I have no doubt on that...



https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/04/uranium-on-the-loose/306729/



*You mention that members of the Russian military have actually sold weapons to the men they’re fighting in Chechnya.* *And you suggest that corrupt soldiers could be one channel through which nuclear material could get into the hands of small-time hustlers, or even terrorists. Selling any kind of weapon to one's enemy seems like a surpassingly stupid thing for a military person to do, but selling nuclear material to terrorists would seem to go beyond mere corruption. How likely is that scenario?*​​We do know that it was a widespread practice during the Chechen wars that Russian officers—or soldiers, or conscripts, and generals even—were selling weapons, tanks, all sorts of equipment to the Chechen separatists. It was simply a function of the fact that the country was in disarray. The sense of national purpose had been lost. And the Russian military lived extremely poorly. Even officers were paid a pittance, although that’s been improving recently. The rank and file didn’t believe in the war in Chechnya. They preferred to make a buck and sell their weapons. So it was a very widespread practice.​​Does that mean that there are elements within the Russian security or military services that would actually engage in peddling weapons-grade nuclear material to terrorists? The answer is, we don’t know. But it’s certainly not beyond the realm of imagination.​​Back then, the idea that the former Soviet states were selling military hardware for cash was something in James Bond movies, or so I thought. But after '02 when we were enlightened as to what transpired back in '92, I took the idea seriously. I have always believed that small arms or maybe a truck were sold, but a tank, and now, whole nuclear weapons?

Private to chiefs: small arms
Lts to Capt: trucks
Maj to Col: tanks
Gen/Adm: nukes?


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## Iñigo

The war in Ukraine marks the point of maximum extension of the Anglo-Empire 2.0, which we can also call the Biblical-Roman Empire

We can now summarise the history of this deadly empire and its cult of war

(1846-1920): Wall Street Wars
(1945-1991): Where Adolf left off Washington picked up: Adolf War 2
(1991-2021): Ziocon Wars

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## torik

RescueRanger said:


> Yes they do. I’ve seen a lot of images on Twitter showing Russian paper IDs


I mean metal tag like necklace


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## That Guy

jamal18 said:


> There's a '40 mile' convoy spread out north of Kiev that has not been attacked for days.


Apparently it was attacked. The convoys lead vehicles were struck using artillery, which has further stopped it's advance.



Iñigo said:


> ...
> 
> (1) Crimea is Russia before California, Texas, Nevada was USA
> 
> (2) Ukraine seceded from the USSR after a referendum, and Crimea seceded from Ukraine after a referendum
> 
> Enough of flooding this thread with propaganda.


Crimea was Ottoman before Russia.

Your entire comment makes no sense.

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## Zibago

That Guy said:


> Apparently it was attacked. The convoys lead vehicles were struck using artillery, which has further stopped it's advance.
> 
> 
> Crimea was Ottoman before Russia.
> 
> Your entire comment makes no sense.


Russia was mongol land so how far are we willing to go?

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## patero

gambit said:


> We do know that it was a widespread practice during the Chechen wars that Russian officers—or soldiers, or conscripts, and generals even—were selling weapons, tanks, all sorts of equipment to the Chechen separatists. It was simply a function of the fact that the country was in disarray. The sense of national purpose had been lost. And the Russian military lived extremely poorly. Even officers were paid a pittance, although that’s been improving recently. The rank and file didn’t believe in the war in Chechnya. They preferred to make a buck and sell their weapons. So it was a very widespread practice.​​​​


Make of this what you will, but those practices still persist today in the Russian military (and the PLA as well). There is a theory doing the rounds that Putins generals didn't think Putin was going to actually invade Ukraine until shortly before the order was given. Consequently, field commanders were selling fuel and other supplies to the locals, which has contributed to the logistical problems and poor maintenance of vehicles and equipment currently being observed.


----------



## thetutle

beijingwalker said:


> What an ignorant remark... you believe Taiwan people speak Cantonese?


I didn’t say they speak Cantonese, I said they are more different than Beijing Chinese than Russians are to Ukranians. 

On top of that I also say, accurately that Cantonese and mandarin are more different than Bosnian and russian. 

Which brings into question the concept of Han Chinese being one United group. I say the term is no more accurate to describe a population than the term “white European”


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## dBSPL

Just another Ka-52

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500030375388667904I really could not imagine that Russian army aviation would lose so many aircraft.

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## 8888888888888

khansaheeb said:


> Ukraine war: Ukraine can absolutely win against Russia - Blinken
> 
> 
> US Secretary of State Antony Blinken tells the BBC the Ukrainian people's defeat is not inevitable.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine war: Ukraine can absolutely win against Russia - Blinken​Published7 hours ago
> Share
> 
> Media caption,
> Watch: Secretary of State Anthony Blinken says the US does not seek regime change in Russia
> *US Secretary of State Antony Blinken has told the BBC that he is convinced Ukraine can win its war with Russia.*
> He could not say how long the conflict would last, but insisted that Ukraine's defeat was not inevitable.
> Mr Blinken praised the "extraordinary resilience" of the Ukrainian people.
> "If it's the intention of Moscow to try somehow to topple the government and install its own puppet regime, 45 million Ukrainians are going to reject that one way or the other," he said.
> The war has already not gone as Russian President Vladimir Putin might have planned, he added.
> Stiff resistance by Ukrainian forces continued to hamper Russian advances across the country on the ninth day of the invasion.
> 
> In the south, Russian forces captured areas along the Black Sea coast, and the port city of Mariupol remained surrounded. But the governor of Mykolaiv said Russian troops had been driven out of the city.
> Ukraine's second city of Kharkiv, in the north, also remained under siege.
> 
> Media caption,
> Watch: Sarah Rainsford reports from a metro station in Kharkiv where people have been sheltering from attacks
> Mr Blinken spoke to BBC diplomatic correspondent James Landale after meeting his European Union counterparts in Brussels at the start of a six-day trip to Europe.
> He said the international community was committed to doing everything it could to help Ukraine and also to put "excruciating pressure on Russia to end this war of choice that Vladimir Putin started".
> Asked if he was convinced Ukraine could win, he said: "Over time, absolutely."
> "I can't tell you how long this will go on. I can't tell you how long it will take. But the idea that Russia can subjugate to its will 45 million people who are ardently fighting for their future and their freedom, that does not involve Russia having its thumb on Ukraine, that tells you a lot."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia attacks Ukraine: More coverage​
> LIVE: Latest updates from on the ground
> THE BASICS: Why is Putin invading Ukraine?
> SCENARIOS: Five ways the war in Ukraine might end
> INNER CIRCLE: Who's in Putin's entourage, running the war?
> IN DEPTH: Full coverage of the conflict
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Blinken also said he was concerned about escalation.
> "It's something we care about and are focused on because the only thing worse than a war which is contained to Ukraine is one that escalates even further and goes beyond it."
> He warned that Russian forces were using "increasingly brutal" methods against civilians in Ukraine, and that there had been tremendous human suffering as a result.
> "We're seeing Russia go after critical infrastructure that's denying Ukrainians water, denying them electricity, denying them heat," he said. "Those methods are, unfortunately, tragically, part of the Russian playbook under President Putin. And I think we're likely to see more of that."
> Asked if the US would seek a change in Moscow's leadership to bring an end to the invasion, he replied: "We don't seek that, and in any event it's not up to us. The Russian people need to decide their leadership."
> "What I would say to the Russian people is: How in the world is this war of aggression... advancing your interests, your needs?" he added.


Sounds like misdirection or a distraction or a excuse not to send any USA forces to Ukraine.

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## Iñigo

The cruelty of Anglo-Empire 2.0 towards Ukraine is striking.

The State Department knew perfectly well that Ukraine was divided into two camps, and that is precisely why it provoked a civil war. "Ukraine" means "border", "borderlands", and one part is Polish-Ukrainian and another part is Russian-Ukrainian.

They filled their heads with promises, lies and fantasies, to use them as pawns and cannon fodder. As if impoverished Ukraine could magically become Denmark or Norway as long as they hated the Russians a lot, killed Russians on the Don, and were very obedient to the Master in Washington.

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## Wergeland 2.0

Tamerlane said:


> Try to say anything against Jews and you'll lose your job very quickly and be turned into an outcast. Today this protection extends to the LGTBQ community and some other groups. The only group regarding whom free speech is allowed is Muslims. All kinds of abuse of Muslims is protected by freedom of speech laws.



What you are telling is appearent for anyone who lives outside of America, and probably even for those who live inside America too. Gambit have to admit that America does not have freedom of speech in many areas, he can choose to ignore it but its only for the sake of being willfully ignorant.

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## mhosein

gambit said:


> What does this prove?
> 
> In regarding weapons development and deployment, here is my take on it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US NORAD chief claims China is 10 times ahead in developing hypersonic weapons
> 
> 
> US NORAD chief claims China is 10 times ahead in developing hypersonic weapons PARIS BEACON MARCH 2, 2022 The head of the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD), Glen VanHerck, warned Tuesday before the US House Armed Services Committee that China is 10 times ahead in developing...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk



The Americans had total dominance for two decades, post Cold War. They had the Petrodollar, the World Bank - IMF Cartel, they had the Credit Ratings Agencies, they had the highest immigrant application pool, they had access to the best minds, the best R&D on the planet, they were unchallenged and had no Peer Nation that could match America's military and economic power.

Yet, despite all of this, as the facts on the ground are in black and white .... it is the Russian Federation and the People's Republic of China who have researched, designed, developed and operationally deployed hypersonic weapons and NOT America.

What this proves is that for the first time in nearly a century, the East has gained technological superiority over the West. That the Russian Federation has the ability to stop any military force against it, in their tracks.


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## SIPRA

jamahir said:


> @SIPRA, can you present a simple ( for me ) couplet of Faiz, or perhaps you know one of Mashal, that is connected with revolutionary thought including recognizing disparities and wrongs ?



A part of poem, by Faiz Sahib:

"Ja baja biktay huye koocha o baazaar main jism
Khaak main lithrhay huye, khoon main nehlaaye huye
Laut jaati hae udhar ko bhi nazar, keya kijiye
Ab bhi dilkash hae taira husn, magar keya kijiye"

"Aaj bhi Sipra, uss ki khushboo mill maalik lay jaata hae
Man loyay ki naaf say paeda, jo kasturi karta hoon"
(Tanvir Sipra)

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## mhosein

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499911648387248129



That is a remarkable capability that Russia is displaying. Past experiences have been beneficial in contributing toward the improvements to the air defense systems.


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## Iñigo

Ukraine

*Ukraine is the final delirium of our colossal and deadly empire*

The terror suffered by the Ukrainians at the hands of the Bolsheviks and the terror suffered by the Yiddish people at the hands of the Ukrainians ...

... Now it becomes the nostalgics of the 14th Waffen SS encouraged by the State Department where the four main positions are grandchildren of Ukrainians, Russians and Poles ... and financed by a clan of "our colonial project" (Jabotinsky) in "the land of Canaan" where several Russian-Polish-Ukrainian terrorist groups succeeded


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## Vergennes

It is funny though that eastern Ukraine,where there's a large chunk of russian speaking people (and reportedly lot of people favorable to Russia...) hasn't rapidly fallen or massive uprisings happened supporting Russia.... Kharkiv is still standing and Ukrainians are fighting hard for this town.... so it was all BS ?


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## Titanium100

Ukraine can absolutely win against Russia - Blinken​*US Secretary of State Antony Blinken has told the BBC that he is convinced Ukraine can win its war with Russia.*
He could not say how long the conflict would last, but insisted that Ukraine's defeat was not inevitable.
Mr Blinken praised the "extraordinary resilience" of the Ukrainian people.

"If it's the intention of Moscow to try somehow to topple the government and install its own puppet regime, 45 million Ukrainians are going to reject that one way or the other," he said.

The war has already not gone as Russian President Vladimir Putin might have planned, he added.
Stiff resistance by Ukrainian forces continued to hamper Russian advances across the country on the ninth day of the invasion.


Mr Blinken spoke to BBC diplomatic correspondent James Landale after meeting his European Union counterparts in Brussels at the start of a six-day trip to Europe.

He said the international community was committed to doing everything it could to help Ukraine and also to put "excruciating pressure on Russia to end this war of choice that Vladimir Putin started".
Asked if he was convinced Ukraine could win, he said: "Over time, absolutely."
"I can't tell you how long this will go on. I can't tell you how long it will take. But the idea that Russia can subjugate to its will 45 million people who are ardently fighting for their future and their freedom, that does not involve Russia having its thumb on Ukraine, that tells you a lot."









Ukraine war: Ukraine can absolutely win against Russia - Blinken


US Secretary of State Antony Blinken tells the BBC the Ukrainian people's defeat is not inevitable.



www.bbc.com

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## beijingwalker

thetutle said:


> I didn’t say they speak Cantonese, I said they are more different than Beijing Chinese than Russians are to Ukranians.


How different? can you specify?


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## arjunk

Civvies should avoid standing near radars. There is a risk of cancer.


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## beijingwalker

thetutle said:


> On top of that I also say, accurately that Cantonese and mandarin are more different than Bosnian and russian.


over a billion people in this world speak Englishi, but it doesn't mean they are kins, it's the blood, not languages or dialects, even small Britian has many mutually unintelligible local dialects let alone continetal size country China.

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## Chak Bamu

khansaheeb said:


> Putin is a very calculating fox, let's see how it plays out. Russians think it is going to plan, not sure whose plan.


Quran 08:30

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## Titanium100

Jinjer is a famous Ukrainian band.. Most of them have Muslim sounding last names and probably muslims by hertige.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500042826024828931





Eugene Abdukhanov, the bassist of Ukrainian metal band Jinjer, has shared a video message from the band's YouTube account in which he condemns Russia's invasion of Ukraine and asks for support from metalheads worldwide. You can watch the full video below.

Russia began a large-scale military attack on Ukraine, which is the country's southern border, on Thursday morning. There were reports of Russian attacks on Ukrainian military infrastructure across the country, with Russian convoys entering from all directions, as ordered by Russian President Vladimir Putin.

United States President Joe Biden has accused Putin of choosing to carry out "a premeditated war that will bring a catastrophic loss of life and human suffering." For a full explanation of what is unfolding, as well as live updates on the conflict, go here.

"Hello, the whole world," Abdukhanov begins (as transcribed by _Blabbermouth_). "I'm speaking to you from Kyiv, the capital of Ukraine, which is now under the siege of Russian troops. It's five o'clock in the afternoon [on] Saturday."

He went on to say that all members of Jinjer currently in Kyiv are "relatively safe and O.K., as much as it is possible during these dark days."

He continues, "We appreciate all of our fans worldwide for showing the solidarity with us and our country for opposing the barbarism of war which was started by Putin here in Ukraine on the 24th of February.

"I would like to speak to _all_ the people of the civilized world, _all_ our fans, all music fans, all metalheads worldwide, no matter where you're from, _especially_ if you're from Russia," he continued. "This war cannot be justified by anything, no matter what propaganda says. No one deserves what we are going through now here in Ukraine. The innocent people of Ukraine are suffering. I'm not talking about politicians; I'm not talking about our government. The innocent people of our country are suffering… All the people of Kyiv are spending their days and nights in the shelters in basements. _Children_ are spending their days and nights in the shelters. They are scared. They don't have proper food. They don't have enough water. They don't have any comfort. Do they deserve this?"

*Read More: *Jinjer Condemn Russia's Invasion of Ukraine | https://loudwire.com/jinjer-condemn...witter&utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral

-----------

Ukraine technically use to be Ottoman country for centuries hence there are still remnants and flavors of the Ottoman present in Ukraine to some form and degree


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## jamahir

Titanium100 said:


> Ukraine technically use to be Ottoman country for centuries hence there are still remnants and flavors of the Ottoman present in Ukraine



And what's your point ?


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## Ssan

gambit said:


> Close, but not quite.
> 
> You said so yourself that Islam put situational constraints on speech because of certain *VIRTUES*. Am not going to challenge that aspect of your religion.
> 
> What is a 'virtue'? What we casually use the word 'virtue' is actually something that is desirable. For example, having a family is desirable, so a family is *VIRTUOUS*, meaning what we should aspire to have. A truth or fact is not a 'virtue' but being truthful and factual is *VIRTUOUS*. Am not being pedantic but the difference is critical to remove misunderstanding.
> 
> The difference between what Islam teaches to desire and what the US Constitution say is that the US Constitution have literally no constraint. The First Amendment simply say:
> 
> Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.​​The First says nothing about what are desirable or *VIRTUOUS* traits, behaviors, customs, or situations. The First simply forbid Congress to make any law that restrict speech.
> 
> Now, if you want to make such a law, then you must descent down one level, the practical or situational level, and justify why you must restrict speech based only on this situation. You cannot yell 'Fire' in a crowded theater when there is no fire, that is the law. But if you are in the middle of the ocean, then yell 'Fire' all you want. The law say nothing about the latter situation, so it is implicit that you are allowed to yell 'Fire' if you are alone in the middle of the ocean.
> 
> This 'virtue' or 'virtuous' based misunderstanding of the First Amendment is why so many people make flawed criticisms and comparisons to their current beliefs.


The word virtue was thrown out but more precisely Islam believes in god given sacred rights - the Arabic term is “hurumaat”. Actually the underpinning of the US system borrowed this idea from Islam and it’s maqasid as shariah - loose translation purpose of law.

In Islamic law, the 4 Sunni schools in general provide for 5 specific categories of sacred rights under 3 general categories - life, liberty and social-economic, sound familiar?

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## dBSPL

Must read thread by Kamil Galaev








Thread by @kamilkazani on Thread Reader App


@kamilkazani: Russian economy is super fragile. It's critically dependent upon the: 1. Export of natural resources 2. Technological import It has always been so. That's why Russia could never win a major war without...…




threadreaderapp.com





Russian economy is super fragile. It's critically dependent upon the:

1. Export of natural resources
2. Technological import

It has always been so. That's why Russia could never win a major war without massive economic help of the West. Without Western allies Russia's doomed.

Thread focuses on solid reasons for this.


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## beijingwalker

dBSPL said:


> Must read thread by Kamil Galaev
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thread by @kamilkazani on Thread Reader App
> 
> 
> @kamilkazani: Russian economy is super fragile. It's critically dependent upon the: 1. Export of natural resources 2. Technological import It has always been so. That's why Russia could never win a major war without...…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> threadreaderapp.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian economy is super fragile. It's critically dependent upon the:
> 
> 1. Export of natural resources
> 2. Technological import
> 
> It has always been so. That's why Russia could never win a major war without massive economic help of the West. Without Western allies Russia's doomed



We see Germany , but don't see Russia

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## Titanium100

jamahir said:


> And what's your point ?



I was just surprised by their surnames.. I also found an entire city in Switzerland claiming to be the Al-Andalus moors and they are correct including their last names but they are not muslims anymore but they were the invaders who settled down.. Things like that are obviously interesting


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## dBSPL

Titanium100 said:


> Ukraine technically use to be Ottoman country for centuries hence there are still remnants and flavors of the Ottoman present in Ukraine to some form and degree



Turkish-Muslim traces in today's Ukraine date back to before the Ottomans. And in fact, very few of these traces are related to the Ottoman heritage. If you are talking about the Ottoman domination of the Black Sea, the relationship between the Crimean khanate and the Ottoman Empire is as autonomous and special as possible.

However, when this geography was invaded, the Ottomans and today's Turkey received the most immigration. Both the Northwest Black Sea and the Northeast Black Sea. Anatolia became a safe haven in both Tatar exiles and Circassian genocide.


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## OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ

Lehrasap said:


> Let us assume that Russian rebels were not the problem before 2014, and it was all Ukraine's fault.
> 
> Still, after capturing Crimea, Putin could still put it on the negotiation table if Ukraine agrees for the guarantee of the rights of Russian minorities and staying neutral.
> 
> Nevertheless, Putin didn't offer Crimea as a bargaining chip, but went further to support the rebels in other areas of Ukraine too.
> 
> And after doing so, if Putin still demands that Ukraine should stay neutral and does not join NATO, then it is not going to happen, while he himself closed the doors for the negotiations through his previous invasions.



Wait are you justifying Russian action or denying it? What is your locus standi? If Putin didn't offer Crimea, does it mean the joker had a bargaining chip(in NATO)? If asking for NATO membership was the right thing then the resultant war and it's destruction must squarely be on the joker! No? Because otherwise NATO would join in like a knight in shining armor...
It means he was grandstanding and playing chicken while having no real card(s) in hand...
It means he brought his state and his peoole from relative freedom to no freedom(at least according to him)... the current standoff is utterly meaningless loss of life and destruction of property rought on by an absolute egomaniac, who can neither protect his peoples freedom, property nor a glorified death!
Instead he's become a damnation and indignation for his people.
Simultaneously, the fallacy of peddling security assurance of Budapest memorandum, a set of refrains and respects, on part of Russia and other guarantors... however, sideswipes completely any form of belligerence... antagonism, chauvinism or adventurism on part of the subject state(s) against guarantor(s)... while conveniently missing the fact that weapons in Ukraine were aimed at The U.S. and not Europe and couldn't be redirected to Russia but regions in far east. So, along with assurance(s), they were compensated.

Now what? What is the end goal? Be an Afghanistan for Russia? Break Russia up in many pieces? Hope NATO will finally realize their calling and join in...?
In fact, one thing seems certain... the supremacism and rampant racism boiling over in Poland, Hungary and Baltics will create a reason for NATO to enact article 5(by them instigating something to force the hand of NATO)... who does what and how it is done is yet to be seen... but remains highly likely.

So, I suggest you keep working on your narrative(s).


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## Clutch

Russia declares partial ceasefire to allow humanitarian corridors out of Ukrainian cities​ 




Russia declared a partial ceasefire on Saturday to allow humanitarian corridors out of Ukrainian cities that have suffered heavy casualties during the deadly invasion that has now entered its 10th day.






Russian state media announced the defence ministry approved the ceasefire to allow civilians to leave Mariupol and Volnovakha. The ceasefire take effect at 9 a.m. Kyiv time, the ministry was quoted as saying.

Mykhailo Podoliak, an advisor to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, confirmed the two cities were preparing for evacuations shortly after the ministry’s announcement.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500012357099171843


----------



## Titanium100

dBSPL said:


> Turkish-Muslim traces in today's Ukraine date back to before the Ottomans. And in fact, very few of these traces are related to the Ottoman heritage. If you are talking about the Ottoman domination of the Black Sea, the relationship between the Crimean khanate and the Ottoman Empire is as autonomous and special as possible.
> 
> However, when this geography was invaded, the Ottomans and today's Turkey received the most immigration. Both the Northwest Black Sea and the Northeast Black Sea. Anatolia became a safe haven in both Tatar exiles and Circassian genocide.



I think majority of it came from the Golden Horde whom also were a sultanate that reign in that territory (Ukraine) for centuries before even the Ottomans came..

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## dBSPL

beijingwalker said:


> We see Germany , but don't see Russia
> 
> View attachment 821037


I don't think you read the content. The things mentioned are mostly not even about macroeconomic indicators.


----------



## jamahir

Titanium100 said:


> I was just surprised by their surnames.. I find found an entire city in Switzerland claiming to be the Al-Andalus moors and they are correct including their last names but they are not muslims anymore but they were the invaders who settled down



Interesting. Moors in Switzerland. Did they settle down and assimilate into Christianity after Muslims left Europe in 1492 or did they convert before ?



Titanium100 said:


> Things like that tend to get overlooked



Well, we have to be careful about that. The Donetsk People's Republic, a now-independent pro-Russian region bordering Ukraine has 4987 Tatars who will be mostly Muslims I will say. I am sure all of them support Russia against Zelensky. It will be same for other current or recently-former parts of Ukraine.


----------



## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> You cannot even produce that agreement, let alone declaring it nullified.
> 
> Ukraine was in physical ownership of 1700 Soviet nuclear warheads. Russia was too weak to get them back. Russia seduced/convinced Ukraine to give up the nukes based on a non-legal doc. Ukraine agreed and complied to Russia's wishes. Now Russia is 1700 nuclear warheads more powerful.
> 
> And Ukraine is in the wrong?


those 1700 warhead probably reached their EOL years ago
and UK and USA also agreed on that non legal document , so they are also guilty on that matter


----------



## Titanium100

jamahir said:


> Interesting. Moors in Switzerland. Did they settle down and assimilate into Christianity after Muslims left Europe in 1492 or did they convert before ?



They had colonies in the Alps of Switzerland and settlements but after long duration of time they became christians and assimilated but they still have their beautiful dark hair, white skin and exotic look. They aren't plain looking as the other swiss you can sort of recognize them as they have character and presence

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## Clutch

khansaheeb said:


> Ukraine war: Ukraine can absolutely win against Russia - Blinken
> 
> 
> US Secretary of State Antony Blinken tells the BBC the Ukrainian people's defeat is not inevitable.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine war: Ukraine can absolutely win against Russia - Blinken​Published7 hours ago
> Share
> 
> Media caption,
> Watch: Secretary of State Anthony Blinken says the US does not seek regime change in Russia
> *US Secretary of State Antony Blinken has told the BBC that he is convinced Ukraine can win its war with Russia.*
> He could not say how long the conflict would last, but insisted that Ukraine's defeat was not inevitable.
> Mr Blinken praised the "extraordinary resilience" of the Ukrainian people.
> "If it's the intention of Moscow to try somehow to topple the government and install its own puppet regime, 45 million Ukrainians are going to reject that one way or the other," he said.
> The war has already not gone as Russian President Vladimir Putin might have planned, he added.
> Stiff resistance by Ukrainian forces continued to hamper Russian advances across the country on the ninth day of the invasion.
> 
> In the south, Russian forces captured areas along the Black Sea coast, and the port city of Mariupol remained surrounded. But the governor of Mykolaiv said Russian troops had been driven out of the city.
> Ukraine's second city of Kharkiv, in the north, also remained under siege.
> 
> Media caption,
> Watch: Sarah Rainsford reports from a metro station in Kharkiv where people have been sheltering from attacks
> Mr Blinken spoke to BBC diplomatic correspondent James Landale after meeting his European Union counterparts in Brussels at the start of a six-day trip to Europe.
> He said the international community was committed to doing everything it could to help Ukraine and also to put "excruciating pressure on Russia to end this war of choice that Vladimir Putin started".
> Asked if he was convinced Ukraine could win, he said: "Over time, absolutely."
> "I can't tell you how long this will go on. I can't tell you how long it will take. But the idea that Russia can subjugate to its will 45 million people who are ardently fighting for their future and their freedom, that does not involve Russia having its thumb on Ukraine, that tells you a lot."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia attacks Ukraine: More coverage​
> LIVE: Latest updates from on the ground
> THE BASICS: Why is Putin invading Ukraine?
> SCENARIOS: Five ways the war in Ukraine might end
> INNER CIRCLE: Who's in Putin's entourage, running the war?
> IN DEPTH: Full coverage of the conflict
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Blinken also said he was concerned about escalation.
> "It's something we care about and are focused on because the only thing worse than a war which is contained to Ukraine is one that escalates even further and goes beyond it."
> He warned that Russian forces were using "increasingly brutal" methods against civilians in Ukraine, and that there had been tremendous human suffering as a result.
> "We're seeing Russia go after critical infrastructure that's denying Ukrainians water, denying them electricity, denying them heat," he said. "Those methods are, unfortunately, tragically, part of the Russian playbook under President Putin. And I think we're likely to see more of that."
> Asked if the US would seek a change in Moscow's leadership to bring an end to the invasion, he replied: "We don't seek that, and in any event it's not up to us. The Russian people need to decide their leadership."
> "What I would say to the Russian people is: How in the world is this war of aggression... advancing your interests, your needs?" he added.




Is this from the same people who said that the Kabul Government of ashraf ghani will not fall so easily to the Afghan to Taliban???... The same source??

Nice... Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

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## gambit

mhosein said:


> The Americans had total dominance for two decades, post Cold War. They had the Petrodollar, the World Bank - IMF Cartel, they had the Credit Ratings Agencies, they had the highest immigrant application pool, they had access to the best minds, the best R&D on the planet, they were unchallenged and had no Peer Nation that could match America's military and economic power.
> 
> Yet, despite all of this, as the facts on the ground are in black and white .... it is the Russian Federation and the People's Republic of China who have researched, designed, developed and operationally deployed hypersonic weapons and NOT America.


The X-15 was a hypersonic vehicle. Before the Soviet Union and China had any.



mhosein said:


> What this proves is that for the first time in nearly a century, the East has gained technological superiority over the West. That the Russian Federation has the ability to stop any military force against it, in their tracks.


This is why anyone with intelligence should not take you seriously. You now think that a single weapon platform can make a country militarily superior over everyone else. I hope Pakistani military leadership is filled with people like you.

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## jamahir

Titanium100 said:


> They had colonies in the Alps of Switzerland and settlements but after long duration of time they became christians and assimilated but they still have their beautiful dark hair, white skin and exotic look. They aren't plain looking as the other swiss you can sort of recognize them as they have character and presence



Any famous ones from them to find more info ? Which city is this ?


----------



## reflecthofgeismar

thetutle said:


> This nazi stuff is just Russian propaganda, its a little odd as you say. Russia basically has no real argument to attack so they invent this nonsense.
> 
> There are neo nazis in Ukraine and in Russia. Its a fringe ideology. Its also a way to hype up young guys for a very difficult war.
> 
> Nazis dd not hate slavs, they kind fo thought them to be inferior to the Germans, and in many respects we are. I am a slav. We often talk about how we can be more like germans. When germans invaded Russia they were shocked at the living conditions and lack of toilets etc.
> 
> Also germans liberated many slavs from a genocide and mass murder being committed by the Soviets. This was the case in Ukraine so they will have some nazi sympathies, All my family survived nazi occupation. They were only quite bad to the jews and gypsies.
> 
> Anyway this nazi stuff is just a Russian smokescreen.



TBH, I had a Bosnian girlfriend for a time, knew her parents, brothers and the sister and even her cousins, uncles, autns etc bc of family parties.
They were very secular, culture-"muslims" aka drinking, Haramlevel red, only no pork eating. 
NON of them looked like eastern mongolic roots slavic (Putin moonface).
ALL looked more or less like Western European ergo - "German".
And I know - and thanks for the clarification - that many so called slavs were not really treated like described by Nazi propaganda.
You know, Felix Steiner, one of the main architects for the Waffen-SS had Armenians in his HQ working and allowed his soldiers to marry Ukrainian women.
But THERE are Neo-Nazis in Ukraine AND Russia.
Look at Wagner, they are often really "modern-right-wingers" who make Nazi signs in Mosques in Libya or killing Middle Easterns/Negroids even they are on their own side but did something where they are calling a traitor.

So Putins adventure is NOT because of
"Nazis"
and because there are already 2 NATO states on Russias border NOT because of
"NATO" too near on border, especially if he takes over WHOLE Ukraine he will have even many MORE NATO countries on HIS (new) border. 
But when he takes only western/middle part of Ukraine, he will have a buffer state in which partisan warfare will be rampant and weapons will go in, like Turkey/Syria as an example.


----------



## Titanium100

jamahir said:


> Interesting. Moors in Switzerland. Did they settle down and assimilate into Christianity after Muslims left Europe in 1492 or did they convert before ?



The most widely less talked about is that there has been a moor colony on Island all tho short period of time perhaps couple of years and they just left due to the land being useless for economical growth and to cold..

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## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> The US did not invade Cuba and the Soviet Union *PEACEFULLY* removed the missiles after negotiations.
> 
> The Cuban Missile Crisis actually supports our argument. Yes, we did pressured Cuba to the extent that we did a naval blockade on the island. But at the same time, we negotiated with the Soviet Union on how to resolve the crisis *PEACEFULLY*. In the end, we left Cuba alone to this day. Whereas, Russia seduced/convinced Ukraine to give up nuclear weapons in exchange for sovereignty. All parties worked peacefully. Now Russia invaded Ukraine because Poutine wanted to make a name in Russian history. Not because of perceived NATO threat.


you only sent your navy block ships bound for Cuba and nicely and peacefully negotiated with USSR that you start WW3 if those missile somehow reach Cuba and you sank those ships bound for Cuba

and I wonder how 500 time trying to assassinating Castro is considered leaving alone
how sending terrorists there to attack tourists is considering leaving them alone wonder if you guys that there is a Governmental organization in your country called *CIA*

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500052595200573441


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## Foinikas

Did you hear about this?

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## SuperStar20

My stock portfolio is in deep shit due to this war. What you guys think, how will this war span out. Any expert opinion please.
How long it will last and how will it end.


----------



## Foinikas

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500052595200573441


Yeah because the Russians aren't shooting at them yet. If they start shooting at them,all these civilians with "balls" will run like chickens here and there.



SuperStar20 said:


> My stock portfolio is in deep shit due to this war. What you guys think, how will this war span out. Any expert opinion please.
> How long it will last and how will it end.


730 pages thread and you ask "what you guys think,how will this war span out"? How Indian are you?

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## dBSPL

jamahir said:


> Well, we have to be careful about that. The Donetsk People's Republic, a now-independent pro-Russian region bordering Ukraine has 4987 Tatars who will be mostly Muslims I will say. I am sure all of them support Russia against Zelensky. It will be same for other current or recently-former parts of Ukraine.


Before the war they were about 100,000. Only in Donetsk were about 25-30K. One must first ask, how can a people remain in its homeland with only 5000 people and even lose the qualification of being a significant ethnic minority... There is nothing but Russian atrocities in the history of Tatar-Turks in Ukraine.

Even in Crimea today only about 200,000 Tatars live. From a population of a few million nation, 200,000 remain. The entry of the single highest executive-representative body of the Crimean Tatars, Crimean Leader Refat Çubarov, and also honorary national leader of Crimea Mustafa Abdülcemil Kırımoğlu is prohibited by Russia. Even Mejlis was outlawed by Russia.

If you want to express your Russian sympathy, these are probably the topics that should be avoided.

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## reflecthofgeismar

FuturePAF said:


> Considering all the equipment being abandoned by the Russians, according to social media, how many countries have special forces units inside Ukraine right now, trying to get at it? Or do you think it will all just be collected after the war?
> 
> Russian full quality systems (not export quality)



T-80BVM, T-72B3M and T-90A are nothing special.
Only T-90M would be interesting.

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## Titanium100

jamahir said:


> Any famous ones from them to find more info ? Which city is this ?



It is a village called Isérables and majority of the youth just keep moving to the Urban cities but the village itself has around 1000+ population but normally their could be as high as 50.000 Isérablians spread around the country

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## reflecthofgeismar

Hamartia Antidote said:


> "..."
> 
> I'm sure the German NeoNazis would have no problem running both over with a tank...and they'd run over the American Neo Nazis too just for good measure.

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## Enigma SIG

Foinikas said:


> Did you hear about this?
> 
> View attachment 821042


She's approaching levels of Biden 🤣

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## gambit

patero said:


> Make of this what you will, but those practices still persist today in the Russian military (and the PLA as well).


In my opinion, the worst things to sell are ranks, and this is where the PLA, from available sources, excels at this type of corruption. Not only ranks but assignments. From the decades of officers selling and extorting money for ranks, there is no telling how many incompetent officers are there and where are they, and there is no telling how they will perform if there is a real war, and by the time you find out, it will be too late.



patero said:


> There is a theory doing the rounds that Putins generals didn't think Putin was going to actually invade Ukraine until shortly before the order was given. Consequently, field commanders were selling fuel and other supplies to the locals, which has contributed to the logistical problems and *poor maintenance of vehicles and equipment* currently being observed.


Yes, I saw some pics of Russian trucks with blown tires. The RV guys noticed a familiar pattern on the tires: China bomb. 









What Are The RV 'China Bomb' Tires?


'China bomb' tires can cause accidents on the road, injuring you and others. We talk more about them and how to prevent RV tire troubles.




drivinvibin.com





The term “China bomb” comes from the idea that many lower-quality tires come from China. Unfortunately, many of these tires have blown out while going down the highway.​
Chinese manufacturers have found a profitable business model where RV manufacturers are willing to put low-quality tires on their RVs. Until RV manufacturers decide to stop using these, we’ll likely continue to hear reports of RVs having blowouts.​​

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499185800172474371

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## Foinikas

Enigma SIG said:


> She's approaching levels of Biden 🤣


She said it at a radio show. You can search it on Youtube


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500051806465970177


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## SuperStar20

Foinikas said:


> Yeah because the Russians aren't shooting at them yet. If they start shooting at them,all these civilians with "balls" will run like chickens here and there.
> 
> 
> 730 pages thread and you ask "what you guys think,how will this war span out"? How Indian are you?



It is on going war. What is your analysis/guesses , my question is how long this war will last? and what will end this war?
BTW thanks for the reply.


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## Hack-Hook

SQ8 said:


> Looks like Russians are throwing in the reserves.. good ol ZSU-23 Afghanskis.. no radar.. just auto 23mm rain for urban warfare


if only you knew how fantastic are they against infantries and lightly armored vehicle


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## gambit

Hack-Hook said:


> those 1700 warhead probably reached their EOL years ago


Irrelevant. And how would *YOU* know if a nuclear warhead reached its EOL? What is your reference? Please do not bring on Iranian sources. But let us say that you are correct. What part of the warhead reached its EOL? Are you talking about the 1/2 life of the uranium or plutonium? Does this make the nuclear warhead any less dangerous?



Hack-Hook said:


> and UK and USA also agreed on that non legal document , so they are also guilty on that matter


Guilty of what?


----------



## mhosein

gambit said:


> The X-15 was a hypersonic vehicle. Before the Soviet Union and China had any.



Which weapons' platform are the so-called X-15s deployed on? Care to name them?



gambit said:


> This is why anyone with intelligence should not take you seriously. You now think that a single weapon platform can make a country militarily superior over everyone else. I hope Pakistani military leadership is filled with people like you.



People like me? So now you have resorted to personal attacks! Marvelous tactics applied when conducting a discussion. Bravo!

On a serious note, a direct response to your question .... yes, a single weapons system can make a country militarily superior over everyone else. I direct the readers to 1945, Japan, where America attacked Hiroshima and Nagasaki with single type of weapons' system, that put America ahead and superior to other countries. Oh and in case some have short term memory, Japan surrendered to America, as a consequence of it using nukes against Japan.

If you have an ounce of intelligence, you would not have responded to my post with personal attack. But your response has proven that you don't.

Next time, if someone has not quoted you and is initiating a discussion with someone else (post#10705) .... do yourself a favor and stay out of it, unless of course you have the level etiquettes to hold a civilized discussion.

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## Vergennes

The Russian air force lost in the last 24 hours...

2x SU25
1x MI 24/35
1x MI8
1x another unspecified aircraft.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499970041491640324

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## Clutch



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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500059269357572097

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## dBSPL

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500051806465970177


Flanker probably.

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## Wergeland 2.0

dBSPL said:


> There is nothing but Russian atrocities in the history of Tatar-Turks in Ukraine.



Historically the Russian empire was very brutal against the tatars. Tbh they were very brutal against muslims in genral. Something they adopted by empires further west to it.

Southern Ukraine was Ottoman territory for many centuries and there was thriving muslim communities all along the balck sea coast.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500059007075115009

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500061917125255170

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## dBSPL

I don't know if it was shared, but an interesting detail:

Signal system used by Russian troops especially at night. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496904306888704000

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## Titanium100

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> Historically the Russian empire was very brutal against the tatars. Tbh they were very brutal against muslims in genral. Something they adopted by empires further west to it.
> 
> Southern Ukraine was Ottoman territory for many centuries and there was thriving muslim communities all along the balck sea coast.



Well Ofcourse they were because nobody would be friendly with their former occupiers and it was ''Ivan the Terrible'' who re-conquered or you could say liberated Russia from the Muslims after centuries of occupation and the reason his called terrible is due to barberian nature but all is fair in war and love

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## TNT

gambit said:


> Then admit that the true reason for why Russia invaded Ukraine is not about NATO membership but about taking back what was lost after the Soviet Union collapsed. Is Turkey a former Soviet satellite?



Then admit? Seriously? How did u arrive to this conclusion? The true reason is about NATO membership that opens the door for nukes to be placed in Ukraine. Why is it so hard for u to comprehend this? 
Ukraine got rid of nukes and got assurity that it wont be invaded, now when they join NATO and place nukes in Ukraine, that assurity is void. Do u think once a NATO member, Ukraine wont allow nukes on its land??

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500025872711139329

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## FuturePAF

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500059269357572097


Wow, Somebody survived that. It reminds me of that video from a few years ago from the inside of a Ukrainian attack helicopter, and that it *crashed within 5 seconds* of being hit. They only had moments to realize it was the end. This proves that defenses on helicopters need to automated and constantly on.

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## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> When Russia promised Ukraine that Russia would allow sovereignty if Ukraine give up those 1700 nuclear warheads, that was when Russia was too weak to forcibly retake those warheads, what if NATO offered membership then? That would add 1700 nuclear warheads to NATO arsenal. But not exactly under NATO control because they were legally Russia's. Not only that, Ukraine did not have a reputation of being a stable power, let alone a nuclear weapons state, like the UK or France. Still, I wonder what would have been the responses if NATO made that offer.


Russia was weak , but Ukraine was also weak


----------



## gambit

mhosein said:


> Which weapons' platform are the so-called X-15s deployed on? Care to name them?


The X-15 is a *VEHICLE* designed to study the effects of hypersonic speed on bodies.



mhosein said:


> People like me? So now you have resorted to personal attacks! Marvelous tactics applied when conducting a discussion. Bravo!


Yup, people like you.



mhosein said:


> On a serious note,...


Am shocked...



mhosein said:


> ...a direct response to your question .... yes, a single weapons system can make a country militarily superior over everyone else. I direct the readers to 1945, Japan, where America attacked Hiroshima and Nagasaki with single type of weapons' system, that put America ahead and superior to other countries. Oh and in case some have short term memory, Japan surrendered to America, as a consequence of it using nukes against Japan.


I knew you would bring this up.

A nuclear weapon is primarily a *POLITICAL* weapon. Its sheer destructiveness in a single strike puts it into a separate category, which is to induce a political outcome irrespective of any other weapon. Nuclear weapons are not intended as a countermeasure against AWACS, for example. But if the US did not have nuclear weapons, then the war against JPN would have been prolonged for undetermined time.

Now, if you want to talk about a single weapon system that reduce the effectiveness of multiple platforms against it, then look at low radar observability, aka 'stealth'. A single 'stealth' fighter reduced the effectiveness of opposition fighters, ground air defense, and AWACS. Not only that, the 'stealth' fighter can also serve as a tactical short term point recon platform, meaning it can be sent to any location to gather intel that are short lived. So in terms of true utility, the 'stealth' fighter is even more of a real threat than the nuclear ICBM or even the hypersonic missile. The 'stealth' fighter is in the same class as the SSBN or nuclear missile sub.

Your argument ain't that clever, pal.



mhosein said:


> If you have an ounce of intelligence,...


I have more than an ounce and I have actual military experience to go with it.

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## lcloo

Zibago said:


> Russia was mongol land so how far are we willing to go?


All the ways back to the 2,000 people coming out of Africa 70,000 years ago.

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## Titanium100

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500025872711139329



That is quite a good number if true


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500063738325524481

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## gambit

TNT said:


> Then admit? Seriously? How did u arrive to this conclusion? The true reason is about NATO membership that opens the door for nukes to be placed in Ukraine. Why is it so hard for u to comprehend this?
> Ukraine got rid of nukes and got assurity that it wont be invaded, now when they join NATO and place nukes in Ukraine, that assurity is void. *Do u think once a NATO member, Ukraine wont allow nukes on its land??*


Is there a clause in the NATO charter that compels the placement of nuclear weapons on a host country?





__





The North Atlantic Treaty







www.nato.int





Take your time to examine the charter doc and point out where.

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## mhosein

gambit said:


> The X-15 is a *VEHICLE* designed to study the effects of hypersonic speed on bodies.
> 
> 
> Yup, people like you.
> 
> 
> Am shocked...
> 
> 
> I knew you would bring this up.
> 
> A nuclear weapon is primarily a *POLITICAL* weapon. Its sheer destructiveness in a single strike puts it into a separate category, which is to induce a political outcome irrespective of any other weapon. Nuclear weapons are not intended as a countermeasure against AWACS, for example. But if the US did not have nuclear weapons, then the war against JPN would have been prolonged for undetermined time.
> 
> Now, if you want to talk about a single weapon system that reduce the effectiveness of multiple platforms against it, then look at low radar observability, aka 'stealth'. A single 'stealth' fighter reduced the effectiveness of opposition fighters, ground air defense, and AWACS. Not only that, the 'stealth' fighter can also serve as a tactical short term point recon platform, meaning it can be sent to any location to gather intel that are short lived. So in terms of true utility, the 'stealth' fighter is even more of a real threat than the nuclear ICBM or even the hypersonic missile. The 'stealth' fighter is in the same class as the SSBN or nuclear missile sub.
> 
> Your argument ain't that clever, pal.
> 
> 
> I have more than an ounce and I have actual military experience to go with it.



Congrats you have just made my ignore list. Now kindly do not address me or my posts, as your posts don't warrant any dignified response.

Goodbye.

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## jamal18

GumNaam said:


> please stop posting stuff like this, you will give @Hamartia Antidote deep depression followed by a nervous breakdown...


The truth can be quiet painfyl...

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## jhungary

8888888888888 said:


> Sounds like misdirection or a distraction or a excuse not to send any USA forces to Ukraine.


First of all, US already said even before the war started, they will not send US force in Ukraine.

Second of all, there are ALWAYS chances that Ukraine will win, and in fact, if you ask me on Day 1. I will tell you somewhere 5%, Day 4 I will say 10% and day 7 I will say 20%

Time is on Ukrainian side, Russian already committed 92% of troop staging in the border, which mean at this point, they don't have a "reserve" anymore, they had committed it, and you don't use your reserve this early (This is a 10 days old war) because that is a "Just in case" force. Which mean Russia already think they are in trouble.

Now does that mean they will lost? No, but does that mean they will win too? No, I am just saying, if Russia had another blunder, that's it, because there are no more reserve to turn the tide.

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## gambit

mhosein said:


> Congrats you have just made my ignore list. Now kindly do not address me or my posts, as your posts don't warrant any dignified response.
> 
> Goodbye.


I am so sad...Not.

Am going to give you a critical clue about debating on the internet. When I debate people, I literally have *ZERO* interests on changing their minds. You are a nobody to me. Your disregard for me do not cause me any anxiety. The truly important people are the uncounted and unknown silent readers out there who wants facts and opinions from all sides. You ignoring me does not take that away from them. Your 'Ignore' list is like toilet paper to me.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500065747711713280


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## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> Irrelevant. And how would *YOU* know if a nuclear warhead reached its EOL? What is your reference? Please do not bring on Iranian sources. But let us say that you are correct. What part of the warhead reached its EOL? Are you talking about the 1/2 life of the uranium or plutonium? Does this make the nuclear warhead any less dangerous?
> 
> 
> Guilty of what?


loosing the nukes that you seem so distressed about


----------



## gambit

Hack-Hook said:


> loosing the nukes that you seem so distressed about


Wait...The US-UK is guilty of losing Ukrainian nukes?

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## SIPRA

Enigma SIG said:


> She's approaching levels of Biden 🤣



She might be aspiring for the presidential slot, if Biden is impeached on account of senility.

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## Clutch



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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500066431978905600

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## jhungary

SuperStar20 said:


> It is on going war. What is your analysis/guesses , my question is how long this war will last? and what will end this war?
> BTW thanks for the reply.


Depends on what you mean the "end" 

A conclusion for this war can be "Years" away, if Ukraine do resort to Insurgency, which at this point, very likely.

Conventional War will end in 3 weeks or so, either Russian took all the objective and defeated the Ukrainian, or Ukrainian stalled Russian advance and they ask for a peace deal. 

Notice that the predicted Battleplan for Russia is to annex Ukraine along East of the line between Mariupol, Dinpro and Kyiv, and cut off the entire Southern Ukraine, Which mean to do that, they will need to take Kyiv, Dnipro, Mariupol and Odessa, it will be weeks before any of these objective taken. And in Dnipro and Odessa, it wasn't started yet...

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500064533020303364

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## RescueRanger

torik said:


> I mean metal tag like necklace


Yes they do I have an image of it somewhere on my hard drive I’ll share it later.


----------



## waz

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500064533020303364



This is interesting as the Serbian government seems to be a complete odds with its population which backs Russia to the core.

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## gambit

SIPRA said:


> She might be aspiring for the presidential slot, if Biden is impeached on account of senility.


All veeps want to be prez. But the problem for KH is that she is too unpopular among the Democrats even worse than Trump was dislike among the Republicans. If Biden is out due to either the 25th or resignation, then KH will be prez by default of succession and her unpopularity will push the odds of a Republican prez over the 50/50 threshold. KH is that bad. Even if somehow Biden survives his four yrs, he will not run for reelection. That leave KH and the Democrats are truly worried. My dislike for Trump is known here, but there is no doubt that the entire Biden administration is filled with incompetent affirmative action losers.

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499884903676186633

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## jhungary

SQ8 said:


> Looks like Russians are throwing in the reserves.. good ol ZSU-23 Afghanskis.. no radar.. just auto 23mm rain for urban warfare


According to Pentagon latest Satellite feed, Russian committed 92% of the force, which mean they had thrown everything in, no more tactical reserve....

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## gambit

jhungary said:


> According to Pentagon latest Satellite feed, Russian committed 92% of the force, which mean they had thrown everything in, no more tactical reserve....


I was about to ask you on that figure. How true is it?

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500043586058043393

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## Bengal71

nang2 said:


> Poland. When Chinese Air Force (newly formed) operated over Korea, their planes were stationed within China.



If Poland is used then it's NATO declaring war on Russia. It won't matter if they say it's being flown by private contractors.

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## Type59

SuperStar20 said:


> My stock portfolio is in deep shit due to this war. What you guys think, how will this war span out. Any expert opinion please.
> How long it will last and how will it end.


I wish I could give you an answer. I am holding on my stocks.

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## Titanium100

Is this true and if so I am sign myself up if I am getting paid that much to take on Russia 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500070935709327363

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## RescueRanger

SAM497 C-32A - Bilken enroute to Poland 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500022476968976385


----------



## NA71

Only one sided Western propaganda and disinfo ops is on full swing across the globe led by CNN, SkyNEWS & BBC. The reality is very different, The Russians are moving with controlled pace and up to their plans...

US Senator Lindsay Graham Calling for the assassination of Russian President Vladimir Putin or will loose entire Europe.... this clearly shows what is happening on ground....

Boris Johnson calls for Putin trial for war crime against humanity ....fkrs ...often forget what they have done in Iraq Syria Libya Afghanistan and supporting same crimes in Palestinian Lands.

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## jamahir

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500052595200573441



Let these Ukranians try bravery against American military. They will be shot to bits. The Russians are generally being quite civil.



SuperStar20 said:


> My stock portfolio is in deep shit due to this war. What you guys think, how will this war span out. Any expert opinion please.
> How long it will last and how will it end.



You should take this war as opportunity to realize the wrongness of disparity-spreading and oppression-spreading Capitalist elements like stock markets and the entire artificial needlessness of it all. At immediate personal of the stock market player the losses can cause people to suicide like this Chinese man who jumped into a steel furnace and at a wider societal level and global level the stock markets perpetuate oppression and disparity and non-accessibility to basic human rights which should have been free. Among those who understood this was the Occupy Wall Street movement that started in 2011 in New York's Wall Street area where many of USA's Capitalist organizations are based and then the movement spread to many other places in the Western bloc world. From the wiki about it :


> The OWS slogan, "We are the 99%", refers to income and wealth inequality in the U.S. between the wealthiest 1% and the rest of the population.












Titanium100 said:


> It is a village called Isérables and majority of the youth just keep moving to the Urban cities but the village itself has around 1000+ population but normally their could be as high as 50.000 Isérablians spread around the country



Thanks for the interesting information but I must go off-topic and point out the fashion nowadays of using the dot to separate whole numbers ( like you wrote "50.000" instead of "50,000" where there is a comma instead of a dot ). The dot should only be used in fractional numbers ( example, 50.95 ).



Wergeland 2.0 said:


> Historically the Russian empire was very brutal against the tatars. Tbh they were very brutal against muslims in genral. Something they adopted by empires further west to it.



The Russian language and culture imbibed elements elements from Muslims, whether Tatar or others I don't know. For example, Gorbachev's wife is named Raisa. Now that is a Muslim name usually. And then there is the planned Russian space station called Almaz which means Diamonds in Russian. Now "Diamonds" in Arabic is "Almas". Surely, this imbibing must have been present during the pre-Russian-revolution times. But during the czarist period the Communists became allied with the Tatars who formed their ideas into Islamic Socialism. I quote from my thread from 2016 whose OP is by Pakistani journalist Nadeem Paracha :


> Though one can struggle to pinpoint the exact starting point (or points) from where the many ideas that became associated with Islamic Socialism emerged, historians and intellectuals, Sami A. Hanna and Hanif Ramay – who specialised in critiquing and compiling a dialectic history of Islamic Socialism – are of the view that one of the very first expressions of Islamic Socialism appeared in Russia in the late 19th and early 20th century.
> 
> A movement of Muslim farmers, peasants and petty-bourgeoisie in the Russian state of Tatartan opposed the Russian monarchy but was brutally crushed.
> 
> In the early 2oth century, the movement went underground and began working with communist, socialist and social democratic forces operating in Russia to overthrow the monarchy.
> 
> The leaders of the Muslim movement, that became to be known as the Waisi began explaining themselves as Islamic Socialists when a leftist revolution broke out against the Russian monarchy in 1906.
> 
> During the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution that finally toppled and eliminated the Russian monarchy and imposed communist rule in the country, the Waisi fell in with the Bolsheviks and supported Russian revolutionary leader, Vladimir Lenin’s widespread socialist program and policies.
> 
> However, after Lenin’s death in 1924, the Waisi began to assert that the Muslim community and its socialism in Tatartan were a separate entity from the Bolshevik communism.
> 
> The movement that had formed its own communes became a victim of Stalin’s radical purges of the 1930s and was wiped out.


@dBSPL, please read the above in its full context.


----------



## RescueRanger

Titanium100 said:


> Is this true and if so I am sign myself up if I am getting paid that much to take on Russia
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500070935709327363


That will be for the “circuit” types all fire breathing BAMFO SF guys. Most volunteers will be conscripts working for free.


----------



## Vergennes

lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500072771149348866

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## Xestan

This is one of the clearest footages of a MANPAD hitting an aircraft.

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> I was about to ask you on that figure. How true is it?


Saw the feed myself, Russian camp in the 3 staging area is quite empty, I don't believe the people left there are going into the fight, more like they have packed up camp.

Should have said 92% was what the pentagon given, I saw the photo and the camp provided by Pentagon. (My AKO still works, hehe)


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500073957608857604

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## jamahir

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500066431978905600



@Vergennes @Messerschmitt, were you going to post this ? Or not ?

@BlindEagle, you said Russian military is bombing Russian civilians in Ukraine. What say about the above ?


----------



## NA71

On Propaganda war front Russians have failed miserably.... they should have managed it through social media specially on Twitter & FB. 

It has become an essential ingredient for any successful military campaign ( Remember , DG-ISPR with his team and thousands of volunteers who were engaging rest of the world after Balakot incident.)

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500075948871462915

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## Titanium100

NA71 said:


> On Propaganda war front Russians have failed miserably.... they should have managed it through social media specially on Twitter & FB.
> 
> It has become an essential ingredient for any successful military campaign ( Remember , DG-ISPR with his team and thousands of volunteers who were engaging rest of the world after Balakot incident.)



Not really.. It is not important aspect on the ground example look at IEA.. Ground reality is created by ground forces not image or media


----------



## dBSPL

Another Su34 down?

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## jamahir

NA71 said:


> On Propaganda war front Russians have failed miserably.... they should have managed it through social media specially on Twitter & FB.
> 
> It has become an essential ingredient for any successful military campaign ( Remember , DG-ISPR with his team and thousands of volunteers who were engaging rest of the world after Balakot incident.)



But Western social media websites are censoring the Russian support or Russian side of story and are presenting a different narrative. Look at this Twitter trend story I saw just now :


> *Russia not observing temporary ceasefire as attacks continue on evacuation route*
> 
> The Russian defence ministry said in a statement that it was declaring a ceasefire and opening "humanitarian corridors" to allow civilians to leave the cities of Mariupol and Volnovakha. But Mariupol deputy mayor Serhiy Orlov told the BBC that "the Russians are continuing to bomb us and use artillery" despite the ceasefire. In a message on Telegram, the city council said fighting was also taking place in the Zaporizhzhia region, where the humanitarian corridor ends.


But there was a vid posted on this thread last night which had Azov Battalion Nazis or people inspired by them attacking civilians fleeing the cities by car. It was a short vid with sudden, ganged-up and brutal violence.

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## Vergennes

dBSPL said:


> Another Su34 down?

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## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> Wait...The US-UK is guilty of losing Ukrainian nukes?


they signed the same document , they made the same promises, they are as guilty as Russia that today neo-Nazis don't have nukes . and it seems you are sad because neo-Nazis don't have nukes and blame Russia for that.


----------



## PakAlp

gambit said:


> I am so sad...Not.
> 
> Am going to give you a critical clue about debating on the internet. When I debate people, I literally have *ZERO* interests on changing their minds. You are a nobody to me. Your disregard for me do not cause me any anxiety. The truly important people are the uncounted and unknown silent readers out there who wants facts and opinions from all sides. You ignoring me does not take that away from them. Your 'Ignore' list is like toilet paper to me.



Great advice. Am sure this would change a person life if they apply it in to their daily lives. A happy and stress free


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> they signed the same document , they made the same promises, they are as guilty as Russia that today neo-Nazis don't have nukes . and it seems you are sad because neo-Nazis don't have nukes and blame Russia for that.


If he is sad about neo-nazis not having nuke, we can probably solve that problem by giving them some. No need to blame Russia for that, just saying.

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## RescueRanger

Cook echos my own sentiments perfectly in his latest write up:









Russia-Ukraine: Western media are acting as cheerleaders for war


Journalists are cheering on the arming of militias and civilians making improvised explosives – acts they usually treat as terrorism




www.middleeasteye.net

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## Oom

I want to ask the members here, what has Russia ever done for Pakistan other than arm India to the teeth with systems they wouldn’t be able to get from any where else? Nuclear subs etc.

They sided with Pakistan on Afghan issues because quite frankly they choose the winning side. 

As to arms sales to Pak are almost nil. Used as a leverage against India. S-1 Pantsir was denied (thank god it’s a piece of crap).

We should have atleast retaliated against the S400 sale by sending a couple hundred ATGm and Manpads to Ukraine. Their shelf life is expiring anyways.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499918913169235968

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500068909495603203
Have you ever seen a Russian AF pilot that wasn't old and physically unfit ?

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## Titanium100

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500068909495603203
> Have you ever seen a Russian AF pilot that wasn't old and physically unfit ?



He died of his injuries apparently or is he alive?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500075803320725511

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## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500068909495603203
> Have you ever seen a Russian AF pilot that wasn't old and physically unfit ?



How exactly did they bring down a Su-30? 

I don't think Manpad can do the job (unless the SU-30 is flying low) but even the stupidest fighter pilot would have a pretty good chance to evade a manpad with some manoeuvre....

Are there some other SAM still in use? like Buk? Or was it brought down by Air-Air engagement?


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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500076486086254595


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## Maarkhoor

Oom said:


> I want to ask the members here, what has Russia ever done for Pakistan other than arm India to the teeth with systems they wouldn’t be able to get from any where else? Nuclear subs etc.
> 
> They sided with Pakistan on Afghan issues because quite frankly they choose the winning side.
> 
> As to arms sales to Pak are almost nil. Used as a leverage against India. S-1 Pantsir was denied (thank god it’s a piece of crap).
> 
> We should have atleast retaliated against the S400 sale by sending a couple hundred ATGm and Manpads to Ukraine. Their shelf life is expiring anyways.


Did you forget Russian engines for JF-17?
MI-17 helos.
Etc etc


----------



## Titanium100

jamahir said:


> A hero.
> 
> ---
> 
> @Vergennes, you are just doing one-sided NATO disinfo spamming on this thread.



@Vergennes 

Is one of the best posters here

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## Wood

jhungary said:


> Putin should have just wait.
> 
> I don't see how the population of Ukraine will accept a Pro-Russian government? After the same government demolished their home and cause significant civilian casualty. And the more the Russian do it, the deeper the hatred it has become.
> 
> And this is the same cycle we have when we are in Afghanistan. Local hate us because we were there, and because we were there, the Taliban attacks. and because Taliban attacks, we bomb the shit out of their farm, house and so on, because we are under attacks, and because of that, they hated us.


Ukranians overthrew Russian friendly government even before this invasion. Obviously, they are unlikely to support Russian puppets after the disaster that has been meted out to them.

By staying in the country, the Ukranian government has given the local population an identity to fight for. The Ukrainian military as well has rejected Putin's request to surrender multiple times. These are obvious signs of resistance. Time will tell how successful they are!

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## The SC



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## SIPRA

The SC said:


> View attachment 821055



By what factors, shall we divide these figures???

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## Vergennes

Meanwhile aircrafts of the "second's most powerful army" are flying low altitude fearing medium and long range air defence systems (Wait,I thought Russia achieved aerial supremacy?) and because they don't even have targeting pods... they still use unguided bombs...

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## That Guy

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499913748248727555
The amount of abandoned military vehicles is absolutely staggering, and really does highlight just how important logistics are in a war.

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## mhosein

Clutch said:


>



Indeed, the rot and stench of Western duplicity and lies is becoming harder and more difficult to conceal nowadays.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500053901613150208

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## dBSPL

Confirmed losses today

- 1x Su-34 strike aircraft (pictured)
- 2x Su-25 close air support aircraft
- 1x Mi-24 attack helicopter
- 1 Mi-8 transport helicopter

A few days ago, some members were talking about air supramacy here. However, the Russian air force and army aviation began to lose approximately 1% of its active inventory every day.

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## The SC

SIPRA said:


> By what factors, shall we divide these figures???


At least by 2 or 3..

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## That Guy

Zibago said:


> Russia was mongol land so how far are we willing to go?


As long as possible, if we're gonna play the "historical claims" game.

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## jhungary

Wood said:


> Ukranians overthrew Russian friendly government even before this invasion. Obviously, they are unlikely to support Russian puppets after the disaster that has been meted out to them.
> 
> By staying in the country, the Ukranian government has given the local population an identity to fight for. The Ukrainian military as well has rejected Putin's request to surrender multiple times. These are obvious signs of resistance. Time will tell how successful they are!


Not saying the Ukrainian would capitulate if Russian wait, I am saying they may be willing to talk if they know NATO is not going to come to their aid. 

There are two factors affecting how people rage their resistance, the hatred for the occupation, and the love for their idea/country.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500075118030200846


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## jamahir

Titanium100 said:


> @Vergennes
> 
> Is one of the best posters here



How ?



Vergennes said:


> Yes because posting Russian losses is "one sided NATO disinfo",if I wouldn't,this thread would be full of Russian sided trash. Sorry if you are butthurt seeing your Russian masters being roasted in Ukraine,I think it hurts lot of people seing Russia's military "might" fading in front of us in Ukraine.
> 
> BTW it proves again your butthurt because lot of people here are reposting the same things,I haven't seen you telling them the same thing.



1. How many posts have you made about Zelensky's losses ? Did you consult even one Russian source ?

2. Which reposters am I not complaining about ?



That Guy said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499913748248727555
> The amount of abandoned military vehicles is absolutely staggering, and really does highlight just how important logistics are in a war.



Is that the mythical "Ghost of Kiev" ?


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500085022237278213Worst day for Russian Army Aviation, since Afghanistan.

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## deX



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## That Guy

That Guy said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499913748248727555
> The amount of abandoned military vehicles is absolutely staggering, and really does highlight just how important logistics are in a war.





The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500075118030200846




LOL


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500084468035563523

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## SIPRA

The SC said:


> At least by 2 or 3..



You have to be very meticulous. I believe that for each item, the dividing factor would be different.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500087037721989123

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## nangyale

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500084468035563523


The very definition of a dying defeated organisation. 
The Ukies have started even killing their own negotiators.

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## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> Yes because posting Russian losses is "one sided NATO disinfo",if I wouldn't,this thread would be full of Russian sided trash. Sorry if you are butthurt seeing your Russian masters being roasted in Ukraine,I think it hurts lot of people seing Russia's military "might" fading in front of us in Ukraine.
> 
> BTW it proves again your butthurt because lot of people here are reposting the same things,I haven't seen you telling them the same thing.



@Vergennes
Keep posting them — documenting such things should be neutral.

@jamahir
and Pakistanis should remember that the Ukrainians are our friends in defence procurement M/S Tariq Enterprises of Col Cheema and Brig Niaz fame were instrumental in bringing the Ukrainians to the table for engines for our ageing MI17s and tank engines.

Let’s try to calm down and just observe and it’s not wrong to hold a fondness for either side.

And whilst I have been very openly critical of the one sided journalistic coverage and duplicity is some statements made on experts and observers we should remember and be mindful that history will not judge the Russians lightly for their misadventure in Ukraine.

That much is a fact.

*One sided discussions are not discussions they are an echo chamber. *

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## Vergennes

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500085022237278213Worst day for Russian Army Aviation, since Afghanistan.



The serial number corresponds to a MI35M.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500089234367123461

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## That Guy

RescueRanger said:


> @Vergennes
> Keep posting them — documenting such things should be neutral.
> 
> @jamahir
> and Pakistanis should remember that the Ukrainians are our friends in defence procurement M/S Tariq Enterprises of Col Cheema and Brig Niaz fame were instrumental in bringing the Ukrainians to the table for engines for our ageing MI17s and tank engines.
> 
> Let’s try to calm down and just observe and it’s not wrong to hold a fondness for either side.
> 
> And whilst I have been very openly critical of the one sided journalistic coverage and duplicity is some statements made on experts and observers we should remember and be mindful that history will not judge the Russians lightly for their misadventure in Ukraine.
> 
> That much is a fact.
> 
> *One sided discussions are not discussions they are an echo chamber. *


Damn it, the negative and positive rating REEEAAAALLLYYY shouldn't be next to each other.

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## M.AsfandYar

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499841584380186635


Kuch b chalta hai..... Man at least double check the bullshit you post or captions on it. Check the uniforms and equipment of"DOZENS" of paratroopers killed in the given area and check the damned area too.


----------



## Vergennes

M.AsfandYar said:


> Kuch b chalta hai..... Man at least double check the bullshit you post or captions on it. Check the uniforms and equipment of"DOZENS" of paratroopers killed in the given area and check the damned area too.



Dozens of pictures of Russian VDV equipments destroyed and troops killed yesterday north of Kyiv circulating on the internet,the heck are you even talking about ?


----------



## TNT

gambit said:


> Is there a clause in the NATO charter that compels the placement of nuclear weapons on a host country?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The North Atlantic Treaty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nato.int
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take your time to examine the charter doc and point out where.



And u say u have military experience? Do they select low IQ dumbs in US military? Because since yesterday u cant seem to be able to understand a simple point. 
I am saying this again,I never said it "compels" but it does give the "option", doesnt it?? So even if placing nukes isnt compulsory, it is an option, which means Ukraine joining NATO have the "option" of allowing NATO nukes on its land. Even having this option is enough reason for Russia to invade. Seriously i feel like arguing with a 5 yr old, though 5 yrs old may have more intelligence than u.

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## dBSPL

Combination of NLAW ATGM and Aselsan Digital Vehicular Intercommunication System


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500049734001643521

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## That Guy

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499841584380186635




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499843946578653185
This is the alleged translation.

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## M.AsfandYar

RescueRanger said:


> @Vergennes
> Keep posting them — documenting such things should be neutral.
> 
> @jamahir
> and Pakistanis should remember that the Ukrainians are our friends in defence procurement M/S Tariq Enterprises of Col Cheema and Brig Niaz fame were instrumental in bringing the Ukrainians to the table for engines for our ageing MI17s and tank engines.
> 
> Let’s try to calm down and just observe and it’s not wrong to hold a fondness for either side.
> 
> And whilst I have been very openly critical of the one sided journalistic coverage and duplicity is some statements made on experts and observers we should remember and be mindful that history will not judge the Russians lightly for their misadventure in Ukraine.
> 
> That much is a fact.
> 
> *One sided discussions are not discussions they are an echo chamber. *


That should BE done. Just pointing out some of his sources are propagating repetitive claims

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## 8888888888888



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## Messerschmitt

Vergennes said:


> The serial number corresponds to a MI35M.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500089234367123461




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500090816915820546

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500089175856631808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500092647846957058


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500022432198971397


----------



## RescueRanger

That Guy said:


> Damn it, the negative and positive rating REEEAAAALLLYYY shouldn't be next to each other.


No worries brother. 🙂👍.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> If he is sad about neo-nazis not having nuke, we can probably solve that problem by giving them some. No need to blame Russia for that, just saying.


who knows
well European and American are fighting each other over who arm them more , maybe soon you'll do that.


----------



## RescueRanger

Look at the state of this Ukrainian Village in Donbas— if this continues there won’t be much of a Ukraine left to rebuild. 




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499968102532104193
Consider giving war gonzo a follow on Twitter he has very good coverage on the fighting right now.

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> who knows
> well European and American are fighting each other over who arm them more , maybe soon you'll do that.



Don't know about that, but we are definitely arming Latvia and Estonia, may not be nuclear tho, but we will see.


----------



## SIPRA

RescueRanger said:


> No worries brother. 🙂👍.



What is the latest, Sir, if you can kindly summarize?

I am asking you, because, on this whole thread, you are one of the very few, if I am no mistaken, who appear to be substantially neutral, on this conflict. Most are totally lopsided.

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## jamahir

Vergennes said:


> Meanwhile aircrafts of the "second's most powerful army" are flying low altitude fearing medium and long range air defence systems (Wait,I thought Russia achieved aerial supremacy?) and because they don't even have targeting pods... they still use unguided bombs...



But why are Ukranian military's much vaunted Turkish drones not harassing Russian soldiers everywhere ? I am not much of a military knowledged person but even I have that simple question.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500084468035563523



"Was killed on charges of treason" ? What is the full story ? And yet the tweet has "#StayWithUkraine" ?



RescueRanger said:


> @Vergennes
> Keep posting them — documenting such things should be neutral.
> 
> @jamahir
> and Pakistanis should remember that the Ukrainians are our friends in defence procurement M/S Tariq Enterprises of Col Cheema and Brig Niaz fame were instrumental in bringing the Ukrainians to the table for engines for our ageing MI17s and tank engines.
> 
> Let’s try to calm down and just observe and it’s not wrong to hold a fondness for either side.
> 
> And whilst I have been very openly critical of the one sided journalistic coverage and duplicity is some statements made on experts and observers we should remember and be mindful that history will not judge the Russians lightly for their misadventure in Ukraine.
> 
> That much is a fact.
> 
> *One sided discussions are not discussions they are an echo chamber. *



1. I agree with you that we shouldn't have an echo chamber on this thread and on the entire forum and I too am in the habit of writing elaborate posts to those of views opposite to me so that I can understand their POV and put across my point so that what is rational and sensible is what prevails but do look at @Messerschmitt's and @Vergennes' postings on this thread. Nothing from their postings include anything that NATO wouldn't put out in a one-sided manner. Not one post.

2. That you are a sensible person is what I judged for your posts to me and in general your posts on this thread and that is heartening to know.

3. About military collaboration between Pakistan and Ukraine, well, that is better put into context. The political affiliation of those two gentlemen, the directions given to them by the Pakistani government of that time and the fact that had Pakistani history starting with Faiz Ahmed Faiz and his comrades in their attempt to establish Socialist governance in Pakistan and if Pakistani leftists had succeeded in taking over from Zia ul Haq in the 1980s then Pakistani military would have had Russian tank engines, aircraft, ships and other materiel. Sympathy of Pakistanis in this war should not be looked at from narrow immediate collaborations but from historical as well as from moral and geopolitical point of view.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500045846641090562

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## Ich

RescueRanger said:


> POV from a Brookings Scholar:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499840902512132096




In Aleppo there were humanitarien corridors too and were used by the civilians...in the beginning. Then the terrorist head choppers (living now in Germany) shot at the fleeing civillians to hinder them to use the corridor. It seems that the Ukrainia gov do the same as the terrorist head choppers did in Aleppo.

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## The SC

jamahir said:


> "Was killed on charges of treason" ? What is the full story ? And yet the tweet has "#StayWithUkraine" ?


Yesterday there was a video about him being interrogated harshly by Ukrainian security forces..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500070722797977607

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## Vergennes

jamahir said:


> But why are Ukranian military's much vaunted Turkish drones not harassing Russian soldiers everywhere ? I am not much of a military knowledged person but even I have that simple question.



Maybe because before the war Ukraine only had 20 Bayraktar ? Although Turkey is supplying more drones to Ukraine.


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Don't know about that, but we are definitely arming Latvia and Estonia, may not be nuclear tho, but we will see.


Latavia and Estonia , useless move , they don't have strategic depth necessary to stand against attack by a country as big as Russia


----------



## SIPRA

RescueRanger said:


> Look at the state of this Ukrainian Village in Donbas— if this continues there won’t be much of a Ukraine left to rebuild.



You are mistaken, Sir, if I may say. Human beings have an extraordinary capability to rebuild. World of post-WWII is a proof.

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> Latavia and Estonia , useless move , they don't have strategic depth necessary to stand against attack by a country as big as Russia


......They are in NATO, their strategic depth is the entire Western Europe......

You do know NATO is surrounding Russia on all 3 sides right? 

Alaska, US from the East, Turkey from the South, and Western Europe from the West, and that's before Finland decided to join, which they are seriously considering right now...

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## RescueRanger

M.AsfandYar said:


> That should BE done. Just pointing out some of his sources are propagating repetitive claims


Fair enough sir.



SIPRA said:


> You are mistaken, Sir, if I may say. Human beings have an extraordinary capability to rebuild. World of post-WWII is a proof.


Agreed but did you know that most of Europe and the UK are still paying war debts for the rebuilding effort post WWII?

Besides buildings can be rebuilt— shattered lives cannot.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500045846641090562


Now this is BIG news.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> ......They are in NATO, their strategic depth is the entire Western Europe......


the problem with arming them is that any unit stationed there would be lost in first wave of the war , they are just there to be a buffer zone for rest of Europe , its a lot better to arm the countries behind them countries like Lithuania and Poland


----------



## RescueRanger

jamahir said:


> But why are Ukranian military's much vaunted Turkish drones not harassing Russian soldiers everywhere ? I am not much of a military knowledged person but even I have that simple question.
> 
> 
> 
> "Was killed on charges of treason" ? What is the full story ? And yet the tweet has "#StayWithUkraine" ?
> 
> 
> 
> 1. I agree with you that we shouldn't have an echo chamber on this thread and on the entire forum and I too am in the habit of writing elaborate posts to those of views opposite to me so that I can understand their POV and put across my point so that what is rational and sensible is what prevails but do look at @Messerschmitt's and @Vergennes' postings on this thread. Nothing from their postings include anything that NATO wouldn't put out in a one-sided manner. Not one post.
> 
> 2. That you are a sensible person is what I judged for your posts to me and in general your posts on this thread and that is heartening to know.
> 
> 3. About military collaboration between Pakistan and Ukraine, well, that is better put into context. The political affiliation of those two gentlemen, the directions given to them by the Pakistani government of that time and the fact that had Pakistani history starting with Faiz Ahmed Faiz and his comrades in their attempt to establish Socialist governance in Pakistan and if Pakistani leftists had succeeded in taking over from Zia ul Haq in the 1980s then Pakistani military would have had Russian tank engines, aircraft, ships and other materiel. Sympathy of Pakistanis in this war should not be looked at from narrow immediate collaborations but from historical as well as from moral and geopolitical point of view.


Fully agree and thank you for taking the time write such a detailed and eloquent reply.

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## jamahir

The SC said:


> View attachment 821055





Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500087037721989123



So 269 Russian tanks lost according to pro-Zelensky newspaper The Kyiv Independent but 99 Russian tanks lost according to also pro-Zelensky Oryx Twitter source. All of Zelensky's people are lying !

@SIPRA



Vergennes said:


> Maybe because before the war Ukraine only had 20 Bayraktar ? Although Turkey is supplying more drones to Ukraine.



And how does Erdogan plan to get the drones to Zelensky ? Also, aren't those Turkish drones SUPAPAWA ?



The SC said:


> Yesterday there was a video about him being interrogated harshly by Ukrainian security forces..



Sad. What did he do ?

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500071320746405893

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> the problem with arming them is that any unit stationed there would be lost in first wave of the war , they are just there to be a buffer zone for rest of Europe , its a lot better to arm the countries behind them countries like Lithuania and Poland


You cannot fight a war without any lost, if you are afraid of loses, you should not start a war in the first place.

Anyway, attacking NATO, even as small as Latvia will almost guarantee an Entire European War, set aside whether or not it will lead to Nuclear Exchange. it will trigger an attack in Russia in 3 fronts, and may even be from Finland and Nordic country. I don't think Russia can handle that kind of pressure, seeing how they fare with tiny Ukraine at the moment...this does not give me any confidence

you are talking about 2,300,000 to 900,000 troop (only counted active personnel) and over 500 million population in the West vs 150 million in Russia. I can honestly say the only thing can "save" Russia is their nuclear weapon...

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## SIPRA

RescueRanger said:


> Besides buildings can be rebuilt— shattered lives cannot.



Bitter fact of the life: Who cares for the shattered lives?

"Chhurha kay haath bohat duur beh geya hae chaand
Kisi kay saath samandar main doobta hae koyi?"

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500088932087869445

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500097770027462658

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## Vergennes

jamahir said:


> So 269 Russian tanks lost according to pro-Zelensky newspaper The Kyiv Independent but 99 Russian tanks lost according to Oryx Twitter source. All of Zelensky's people are lying !
> 
> @SIPRA


[/QUOTE]

Oryx takes into account the visually confirmed losses (photos,videos) and he hasn't even completed his list as he told multiple times.



jamahir said:


> And how does Erdogan plan to get the drones to Zelensky ?



By air and by land,you do know that western Ukraine is still untouched and that Russia hasn't sealed off Ukrainian borders ?

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## RescueRanger

Hold your beers guys : (other beverages are available) 







Jeremy Clarkson is on his way to Ukraine 
.

P.S: I’m joking obviously 😂

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> You cannot fight a war without any lost, if you are afraid of loses, you should not start a war in the first place.
> 
> Anyway, attacking NATO, even as small as Latvia will almost guarantee an Entire European War, set aside whether or not it will lead to Nuclear Exchange. it will trigger an attack in Russia in 3 fronts, and may even be from Finland and Nordic country. I don't think Russia can handle that kind of pressure, seeing how they fare with tiny Ukraine at the moment...this does not give me any confidence
> 
> you are talking about 2,300,000 to 900,000 troop (only counted active personnel) and over 500 million population in the West vs 150 million in Russia. I can honestly say the only thing can "save" Russia is their nuclear weapon...


this is a hypothetical war scenario , you said you are arming Estonia and Latvia . i assume you expect a war in that front in that case if it was me I'd have mined those fronts so even a fly could not pass them instead of sending troops there , then gave those countries equipment to fight Russians transport aircraft and helicopters and wat the hell they use to transport their forces behind the lines


----------



## Wood

What are the chances of NATO sending their anti aircraft batteries to Ukraine to help defend the skies? Would it be possible for Ukrainian military to learn his to work with this in a short time? Is this too expensive to consider?

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> this is a hypothetical war scenario , you said you are arming Estonia and Latvia . i assume you expect a war in that front in that case if it was me I'd have mined those fronts so even a fly could not pass them instead of sending troops there , then gave those countries equipment to fight Russians transport aircraft and helicopters and wat the hell they use to transport their forces behind the lines


Well, it's never going to be just in that front, there is a reason they join NATO, and if they are only ever just going to be fought in that front alone, then why bother??

If these two countries goes to war, the entire NATO goes to war..........



RescueRanger said:


> Note Before: I can’t verify the authenticity of this - just sharing as received —
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500075368493068292


Those ICRC box is too clean to be in a warzone......

and this is a video from 2018....









Video showing ICRC boxes loaded with money is not from Syria


Pro-Assad regime social media pages and accounts shared a video showing metal boxes loaded with money with International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) logo. Accounts which shared the videos said this money was sent by Turkey to “ISIS and Nusra Front terrorists in Syria through ICRC t




verify-sy.com

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## sur

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500084468035563523


Killed by which party, I guess Ukr?




.
.
.

Video below is a good summary of recent history of Ukraine issue:










Viet said:


> Welcome gift for Putin tanks


There's a very graphic video on youtube that shows how Russians responded to these "gifts".
Cocktails still by the sides of beheaded bodies.
And you may have seen one Ukrainian burning herself as she tried to throw a cocktail on Russian vehicle.

*So don't encourage un-trained civilians to get into something they shouldn't*.



Clutch said:


> MEDIA=youtube]1H0rCqaGtJw[/MEDIA]


@24:00+
Same guy who encouraged to kill Putin.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499918913169235968



"Most of what comes out of Ukr is debunked as lies within 24-48 hours" 
"Neutral Ukr will be good for *BOTH* us and Rus"



deX said:


>


*@5:25 +*
He makes a good point about the resolve and how important Ukraine is to which party.

Additionally he said:
"We took the stick and poked the bear in the eye"
"Responsibility of Russians doing the dirty work is on US"

*I think all hue and cry from so-called West is because they put so much effort and money into propping Ukr against Rus and they are seeing all that going down the drain*.
In desperation they are squeaking. Paddling frantically right and left as their investment is drowning.


----------



## 8888888888888

RescueRanger said:


> Note Before: I can’t verify the authenticity of this - just sharing as received —
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500075368493068292


So the CIA hired those Neo nazis

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## Viet

Welcome gift for Putin tanks

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500101306043752452

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## RescueRanger

8888888888888 said:


> So the CIA hired those Neo nazis


Like I said I can’t confirm the validity of this video but that is an eye watering amount of money.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500100659072356354

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500100487445635072

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500101401728499715


----------



## jhungary

8888888888888 said:


> So the CIA hired those Neo nazis


Yeah, with a Time Machine maybe

This video has been circulated since 2018....in Syria or not in Syria, I don't know...









Video showing ICRC boxes loaded with money is not from Syria


Pro-Assad regime social media pages and accounts shared a video showing metal boxes loaded with money with International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) logo. Accounts which shared the videos said this money was sent by Turkey to “ISIS and Nusra Front terrorists in Syria through ICRC t




verify-sy.com

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## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


> Well, it's never going to be just in that front, there is a reason they join NATO, and if they are only ever just going to be fought in that front alone, then why bother??
> 
> If these two countries goes to war, the entire NATO goes to war..........
> 
> 
> Those ICRC box is too clean to be in a warzone......
> 
> and this is a video from 2018....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Video showing ICRC boxes loaded with money is not from Syria
> 
> 
> Pro-Assad regime social media pages and accounts shared a video showing metal boxes loaded with money with International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) logo. Accounts which shared the videos said this money was sent by Turkey to “ISIS and Nusra Front terrorists in Syria through ICRC t
> 
> 
> 
> 
> verify-sy.com


And this is why I added the caveat. Thanks for the update 👍👌

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## The SC

sur said:


> Killed by which party, I guess Ukr?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> .
> .
> 
> Video below is a good summary of recent history of Ukraine issue:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's Arabic on paper taped to one of the boxes.
> And Chechens are Muslims.
> 
> View attachment 821067




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500086374896185345

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## Sharma Ji

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500101306043752452


oh please, like they never used them before


----------



## jamahir

Vergennes said:


> Oryx takes into account the visually confirmed losses (photos,videos) and he hasn't even completed his list as he told multiple times.



1. How does Oryx get its info from ? What sources ? Are Oryx people on the battlefield ? Or does Oryx depend on the same sources that The Kyiv Independent depends on ?

2. @NotSure has posted proofs of Ukranian military presenting photoshopped Russian tanks which were supposedly destroyed or captured in this war but were from earlier years.



Vergennes said:


> By air and by land,you do know that western Ukraine is still untouched and that Russia hasn't sealed off Ukrainian borders ?



1. What happened to the superpowers of existing Erdogan's Bayraktar drones in Ukranian military inventory ? Why couldn't they harass the Russians all over the place ?

2. How will Erdogan get the drones into Ukraine by air ? Don't Russians operate over the whole of Ukraine's airspace ? I don't know this so I ask.

3. How will Erdogan get the big drones into Ukranian military hands ? The precise manner please.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500103363328942084


Sharma Ji said:


> oh please, like they never used them before



Ukraine doesn't have AK12s


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500100744980353025

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## The SC

A map of how the situation was *yesterday evening*:







“_Putin is NOT crazy and the Russian invasion is NOT failing. The West’s delusions about this war – and its failure to understand the enemy – will prevent it from saving Ukraine, writes military analyst BILL ROGGIO_“. From UK

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## Sharma Ji

Vergennes said:


> Ukraine doesn't have AK12s


what else, the US doesn't have AKs ?


----------



## jhungary

Wood said:


> What are the chances of NATO sending their anti aircraft batteries to Ukraine to help defend the skies? Would it be possible for Ukrainian military to learn his to work with this in a short time? Is this too expensive to consider?


Too expensive. 

The only possible solution is the old MIM-72 Chaparral (Which is ground base AIM-9) and there are only 1 country in the proximity have it, that's Turkey...

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## Bilal.

The SC said:


> A map of how the situation was *yesterday evening*:
> 
> View attachment 821069


Every map is presenting a different picture. This is the most unclear conflict I have seen.

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## Vergennes

Sharma Ji said:


> what else, the US doesn't have AKs ?



I reiterate,AK12s aren't operated by Ukraine and countless have been captured from killed/captured russian soldiers.


----------



## Oom

What do you guys think about TB2 performance in this war?
Karabakh was different, Armenia capabilities can’t be compared with Russia.

What I have seen is that the TB2 performed remarkably well. In that it certainly has a psychological effect on Russian troops, contrains their freedom of movement, they won’t travel in conveys without SHORADS. For the price it’s definitely worth it.

A lot of people were arguing that drone warfare against a near peer adversary is useless. But seeing the performance in Ukraine, we know it doesn’t replace the need for the airforce, but has its own advantages. And that’s the point, cheap and expendable drones which complement other ground attack assets. And they are excellent reconnaissance assets as well, we should really retire the Mushaks, too risky now for carrying out manned surveillance would be prime target of S400. It’s not about losing Mushakhs but the officers who fly them, they are irreplaceable.


----------



## Messerschmitt

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500103363328942084
> 
> 
> Ukraine doesn't have AK12s




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500105460506112003

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500105899461038081

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499959375536001025


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500095342876008455

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## Vergennes

jamahir said:


> 1. How does Oryx get its info from ? What sources ? Are Oryx people on the battlefield ? Or does Oryx depend on the same sources that The Kyiv Independent depends on ?



Oryx is a well known source who even reported material losses during the Syria civil war. BTW Oryx also reports Ukrainian milkitary losses.



jamahir said:


> 2. @NotSure has posted proofs of Ukranian military presenting photoshopped Russian tanks which were supposedly destroyed or captured in this war but were from earlier years.



The thing is the vast majority of russian equipments shown as destroyed or captured aren't even in Ukrainian inventory,or if they are,in different and RECOGNIZABLE versions. This argument is BS again.

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## jhungary

Ich said:


> Me think you have to recalculate the NATO strength...


Well, what's gender equality have anything to do with military strength?

Israel is one of the first country that look at Gender Equality as an issue, maybe you need to ask the Arab world what about Israeli strength??

And you don't even need to ask, as long as you have a pair of eyes, you are able to see how comical this Russian invasion is........


----------



## dBSPL

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500103363328942084
> 
> 
> Ukraine doesn't have AK12s


The Russians are advancing with Israeli-origin ISTAR drones and Italian-origin MRAPs.

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## LeGenD

@jamahir 

Get a grip on yourself and your emotions.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500109331014033412

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500109800033734657

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500109045709033477

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500109526581891072

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500093774009180166

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500054028079747075

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499983899765706753

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500107090874048513



A bad day for russian pilots....

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## That Guy

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500054028079747075


Pretty much standard procedure, I'm surprised they didn't do this a long time ago.

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## Lehrasap

OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ said:


> Wait are you justifying Russian action or denying it? What is your locus standi? If Putin didn't offer Crimea, does it mean the joker had a bargaining chip(in NATO)? If asking for NATO membership was the right thing then the resultant war and it's destruction must squarely be on the joker! No? Because otherwise NATO would join in like a knight in shining armor...
> It means he was grandstanding and playing chicken while having no real card(s) in hand...
> It means he brought his state and his peoole from relative freedom to no freedom(at least according to him)... the current standoff is utterly meaningless loss of life and destruction of property rought on by an absolute egomaniac, who can neither protect his peoples freedom, property nor a glorified death!
> Instead he's become a damnation and indignation for his people.
> Simultaneously, the fallacy of peddling security assurance of Budapest memorandum, a set of refrains and respects, on part of Russia and other guarantors... however, sideswipes completely any form of belligerence... antagonism, chauvinism or adventurism on part of the subject state(s) against guarantor(s)... while conveniently missing the fact that weapons in Ukraine were aimed at The U.S. and not Europe and couldn't be redirected to Russia but regions in far east. So, along with assurance(s), they were compensated.
> 
> Now what? What is the end goal? Be an Afghanistan for Russia? Break Russia up in many pieces? Hope NATO will finally realize their calling and join in...?
> In fact, one thing seems certain... the supremacism and rampant racism boiling over in Poland, Hungary and Baltics will create a reason for NATO to enact article 5(by them instigating something to force the hand of NATO)... who does what and how it is done is yet to be seen... but remains highly likely.
> 
> So, I suggest you keep working on your narrative(s).



You mean Khomeini was a joker too who kept on fighting against Saddam Hussain and brought all the destruction of war upon his people and he is the killer of 1 million Iranians who died in the war? 

According to International law, Putin is a war criminal. 

You can keep on blaming the victim himself, but there are still people present there who could see the fallacy of your claims.


----------



## dBSPL

The losses last days are unbelievable.

How can a Su-34 be hit by a shoulder-fired missile, lets say one was shot, how can this mistake be repeated? It seems Russian jets are running bombing missions from low altitudes. This could indicates a problem with laser marking for example... It seems Pilots trying to bomb by seeing the target. Possibly for this reason MANPADS teams became a real problem for the Russian air force, as the aircraft did not have modern CM equipment.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499832583919742981

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500109908724924422

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## RescueRanger

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500093774009180166


Good !

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## dBSPL

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500093774009180166


BIG DATA

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## Ich

jhungary said:


> Well, what's gender equality have anything to do with military strength?
> 
> Israel is one of the first country that look at Gender Equality as an issue, maybe you need to ask the Arab world what about Israeli strength??
> 
> And you don't even need to ask, as long as you have a pair of eyes, you are able to see how comical this Russian invasion is........



The pictures i showed (and which were deleted by the mods) are pictures from the german Bundeswehr and have nothiing to do with gender. The "people" shown in the pictures are man, but "define" them self as "woman" and thus they wear wigs ect. while on duty. They even put great unicorns out of wood on the sides of their military vehicles. One of the pictures show the same in the "EU-Army" (lipgloss, earrings ect.). They also are called "Transvestites", what is a mental disorder.

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## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500107090874048513
> A bad day for russian pilots....


Please post a spoiler on that video. Thank you 😊

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## The SC

Rambo

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500062342435905536

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500113036228677633



another su25 downed

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## Lehrasap

maverick1977 said:


> putin took crimea in 2014, Nato and Ukraine talks started in 2008 onwards.. I do not agree with your analysis.,



Ukraine is an independent land, and has the right to wish to join NATO. 

Putin should ask this question why Ukrainian people felt threatened by him even before 2008, and why they wanted to join NATO. 

And what did Putin think by annexing Crimea? Did he think that annexing Crimea will make Ukrainian people to give up their idea of joining NATO? He was so wrong about it. 

And even after annexing Crimea, he still got the chance to put Crimea on the negotiation table as a bargaining chip in order to get a peaceful solution, but he didn't. 

After the annexation of Crimea, no peaceful solution was possible anymore and you know it very well.

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## jhungary

Ich said:


> The pictures i showed (and which were deleted by the mods) are pictures from the german Bundeswehr and have nothiing to do with gender. The "people" shown in the pictures are man, but "define" them self as "woman" and thus they wear wigs ect. while on duty. They even put great unicorns out of wood on the sides of their military vehicles. One of the pictures show the same in the "EU-Army" (lipgloss, earrings ect.). They also are called "Transvestites", what is a mental disorder.


Trans right IS gender equality........

I can most certainly tell you this, as a military man, I don't care what is the pronounce the guy next to me choose to use, I only care if he or she or it or whatever they called themselves can do the job I ask them to do. You can do what you like in your down time,....you can dress like a Santa clause or Marilyn Monroe in your day off, as long as you give me 100% when I need you in a mission.

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## dBSPL

Vergennes said:


> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500113036228677633
> 
> 
> 
> another su25 downed


March 5 became a fiasco day in the operation

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## NA71

Titanium100 said:


> Not really.. It is not important aspect on the ground example look at IEA.. Ground reality is created by ground forces not image or media


Exactly.... Ground forces are just 5 miles away from Kiev..... Two other major cities are already fallen.... 2nd nuclear site would under Russian control in any minute.... Cry for NFZ is ever louder...... The media going crazy.... And Russians have done something to humanity which has never been happened on earth..... 😁

West is full of crap heads....

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## jamahir

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500100744980353025



@Sudarshan, this is the reality of Dear Leader Modi's Operation Ganga.

Cleaning scientifically-built toilets is something citizens should do on rotation as part of their civic duties but would Modi and his minions do it after being forcibly told to after walking long distances in the midst of a war ?




Vergennes said:


> Oryx is a well known source who even reported material losses during the Syria civil war. BTW Oryx also reports Ukrainian milkitary losses.



1. There is no Syrian "civil war". The Syria war which has been happening for the last 11 years is an invasion by AQ and MB criminals in their tens of thousands inserted there by NATO. 

2. With that in mind since Oryx is on the "Syrian" "moderate" "rebel" side it cannot be trusted in the Ukraine war too. So please find better sources for your postings here.



Vergennes said:


> The thing is the vast majority of russian equipments shown as destroyed or captured aren't even in Ukrainian inventory,or if they are,in different and RECOGNIZABLE versions. This argument is BS again



I think you didn't understand my point. The Ukrainian military and its IT Cell is basically finding finding photos of destroyed or intact Russian vehicles, from now and before, in Russian ownership or otherwise, and photoshopping them and showing them as destroyed or captured by Ukranian military. You can go through NotSure's photo posts on this thread.



LeGenD said:


> @jamahir
> 
> Get a grip on yourself and your emotions.



I am as calm as a relaxed cat. On the contrary it is certain others who are raving in this thread. You please notify them. Who they are I have tagged their names multiple times. One of them thanked your post.


----------



## Vergennes

dBSPL said:


> March 5 became a fiasco day in the operation



1x SU30SM
1x SU34
3x SU25
2x MI24/35
1x MI8
1x Orlan UAV

In the last 24 hours.... Ukrainian air defence and manpads making ravages...

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500115682725408770
😂

Someone please put this man out of his misery and send him to bed with a glass of Horlicks please.

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## Vergennes

jamahir said:


> I think you didn't understand my point. The Ukrainian military and its IT Cell is basically finding finding photos of destroyed or intact Russian vehicles, from now and before, in Russian ownership or otherwise, and photoshopping them and showing them as destroyed or captured by Ukranian military. You can go through NotSure's photo posts on this thread.



At this point,nobody can do anything for you.

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## NA71

With supply of so many MANPADs even Afghans managed to shot down many Russian jets..... So is the case here in this war..... Will it stop the Russian Adanvce?


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

reflecthofgeismar said:


>



LOL! Although KKK that's pretty much what I envisioned for the American NeoNazis...they really lucked out in the end as they were just one more bad answer away from being machine gunned.

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## SQ8

jhungary said:


> According to Pentagon latest Satellite feed, Russian committed 92% of the force, which mean they had thrown everything in, no more tactical reserve....


Great time for any other front to lay bare open for others. Not that they really have anything to pick from there.


----------



## jamahir

The SC said:


> Rambo
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500062342435905536



Rambo is the appropriate name for a dog.



Vergennes said:


> At this point,nobody can do anything for you.



You sir are protected by mods on this thread. For what rational reason I cannot make out.

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## NA71

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500115682725408770
> 😂
> 
> Someone please put this man out of his misery and send him to bed with a glass of Horlicks please.


He is America's Nawaz Sharif.....

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## RescueRanger

NA71 said:


> He is America's Nawaz Sharif.....


I miss Obama.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500100865079787523

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## dBSPL

Vergennes said:


> 1x SU30SM
> 1x SU34
> 3x SU25
> 2x MI24/35
> 1x MI8
> 1x Orlan UAV
> 
> In the last 24 hours.... Ukrainian air defence and manpads making ravages...


If it continues for 30 days like this, Russia may be forced to send aircrafts to Ukraine from very critical regions and bases. Because if they can not stop this pace, they will lose at least 20% of their active inventory within 4-6 weeks.

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## jhungary

SQ8 said:


> Great time for any other front to lay bare open for others. Not that they really have anything to pick from there.


Well, 92% of the troop in the initial staging area. Not 92% of the troop of the entire Russia Army.......

But true, now with any hiccup, chances are Russia is not going to do well, as they now don't have the tactical reserve to turn the tide.


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## Vergennes

NA71 said:


> With supply of so many MANPADs even Afghans managed to shot down many Russian jets..... So is the case here in this war..... Will it stop the Russian Adanvce?



The Russians have a hard time achieving air superiority and with the lack of targeting pods and guided bombs they have to fly in low altitude to strike effectively their targets.. making them vulnerable to Manpads. Winning a war without ruling the skies and prodiving your ground troops with air support is quite difficult you see.

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## NA71

One thing is obvious.... Russian War machine needs overhauling..... 😁



Vergennes said:


> The Russians have a hard time achieving air superiority and with the lack of targeting pods and guided bombs they have to fly in low altitude to strike effectively their targets.. making them vulnerable to Manpads. Winning a war without ruling the skies and prodiving your ground troops with air support is quite difficult you see.


100% agreed 🤝

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## Vergennes

Vergennes said:


> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500113036228677633
> 
> 
> 
> another su25 downed



Finally it seems to be a SU34


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500117352867893249

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## RescueRanger

Aeroflot will suspend all international flights from March 8th with the exception of flights to Minsk.

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## Ich

jhungary said:


> Trans right IS gender equality........
> 
> I can most certainly tell you this, as a military man, I don't care what is the pronounce the guy next to me choose to use, I only care if he or she or it or whatever they called themselves can do the job I ask them to do. You can do what you like in your down time,....you can dress like a Santa clause or Marilyn Monroe in your day off, as long as you give me 100% when I need you in a mission.



"in down time"...but this pictures are while duty. And i do not want to be with such in battle, trying to survive, while such one tries to refresh their make up or their wig wind up with the cartridge belt of the MG. While still it is a mental disorder.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500116423460405253^ One might argue that a no-fly zone is not even necessary anymore at this point...


----------



## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500031535797633025
😂

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## NA71

This war has again proved.... 

Must have Strong Air Force and Air Defence.... Rest comes later.

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## dBSPL

Vergennes said:


> Finally it seems to be a SU34
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500117352867893249


Another Su-34? For God's sake, What the hell is the Russian air force doing?

Under NATO, no country's air force with an acceptable military strength, except for its small states, would have made such gross doctrinal errors or revealed technical inadequacies. It's sad but that's the truth.

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## PakAlp

Vergennes said:


> The Russians have a hard time achieving air superiority and with the lack of targeting pods and guided bombs they have to fly in low altitude to strike effectively their targets.. making them vulnerable to Manpads. Winning a war without ruling the skies and prodiving your ground troops with air support is quite difficult you see.


They have 5 Su57s which are 5th generation jets. If Russians are desperate they could use them and they must have targeting pods, guided bombs etc. They have 119 Su30s, 103 su35s. These all are modern 4+ generation jets. Its mysterious why their helicopters and planes are flying really low and getting shot down due to manpads. Also these advanced helicopters must be able pick up the person with manpad, a few errors could happen but not in greater numbers.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500119735488417793

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500070791215558656

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## Messerschmitt

PakAlp said:


> Would be to
> 
> They have 5 Su57s which are 5th generation jets. If Russians are desperate they could use them and they must have targeting pods, guided bombs etc. They have 119 Su30s, 103 su35s. These all are modern 4+ generation jets. Its mysterious why their helicopters and planes are flying really low and getting shot down due to manpads. Also these advanced helicopters must be able pick up the person with manpad, a few errors could happen but not in greater numbers.


My guess is that Russian aviation is flying low to avoid engagements by Ukrainian medium-range SAM systems which however made them more vulnerable to MANPAD attacks.


----------



## thetutle

reflecthofgeismar said:


> TBH, I had a Bosnian girlfriend for a time, knew her parents, brothers and the sister and even her cousins, uncles, autns etc bc of family parties.
> They were very secular, culture-"muslims" aka drinking, Haramlevel red, only no pork eating.
> NON of them looked like eastern mongolic roots slavic (Putin moonface).
> ALL looked more or less like Western European ergo - "German".
> And I know - and thanks for the clarification - that many so called slavs were not really treated like described by Nazi propaganda.



Ok, sounds typical haramlevel. Yes, some Russians have that slight Eskimo or asian mixture, Putin is an excellent example of it. We obviously look more Central European because thats where we have lived for 800 years and we obviously mixed with germans and others in that part fo the world. But also other groups like turks and gypsies and Romanians and native balkan people who lived here before the slavs arrived. I have been all over Europe and noone would ever suspect I am a foreigner until I open my mouth. Except maybe in Norway or Portugal or Spain. I can say I don't look like the typical people in these two countries. 

What is your ancestry? 



reflecthofgeismar said:


> You know, Felix Steiner, one of the main architects for the Waffen-SS had Armenians in his HQ working and allowed his soldiers to marry Ukrainian women.



Herr Steiner is certainly more tolerant than me, I would not let Armenians anywhere near my headquarters. But I would marry a Ukrainian. Of course I would. 



reflecthofgeismar said:


> But THERE are Neo-Nazis in Ukraine AND Russia.
> Look at Wagner, they are often really "modern-right-wingers" who make Nazi signs in Mosques in Libya or killing Middle Easterns/Negroids even they are on their own side but did something where they are calling a traitor.



There is no doubt those Russian mercenaries are the worst kind of people and they certainly caused more death and destruction in the Middle East and North Africa than the real nazis ever did. 



reflecthofgeismar said:


> So Putins adventure is NOT because of
> "Nazis"
> and because there are already 2 NATO states on Russias border NOT because of
> "NATO" too near on border, especially if he takes over WHOLE Ukraine he will have even many MORE NATO countries on HIS (new) border.
> But when he takes only western/middle part of Ukraine, he will have a buffer state in which partisan warfare will be rampant and weapons will go in, like Turkey/Syria as an example.



This is exactly right. His desire to recreate the Russian empire will be opposed by the whole Europe. Europe will not be divided along the Cold War lines, the line will be east of Ukraine or perhaps there should be no line at all, but before that can happen Russia has to become a normal country. This war will help them become that country.


----------



## jhungary

Ich said:


> "in down time"...but this pictures are while duty. And i do not want to be with such in battle, trying to survive, while such one tries to refresh their make up or their wig wind up with the cartridge belt of the MG. While still it is a mental disorder.


Depends on what do you mean by "On-Duty"

And I am pretty sure make up is banned in battlefield even for woman, enemy can spot the gloss and reflection and the red lips from miles away. 

AS I said, if you give me your 100%, I don't really care what you do....


----------



## PakAlp

dBSPL said:


> Another Su-34? For God's sake, What the hell is the Russian air force doing?
> 
> Under NATO, no country's air force with an acceptable military strength, except for its small states, would have made such gross doctrinal errors or revealed technical inadequacies. It's sad but that's the truth.


If the looses are great then they must change tactics. Are the generals asleep? Someone suggested they have no guided bombs, targeting pods. 

The helicopter which was shot is flying really low, could down it with a stone.


----------



## OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ

Lehrasap said:


> You mean Khomeini was a joker too who kept on fighting against Saddam Hussain and brought all the destruction of war upon his people and he is the killer of 1 million Iranians who died in the war?
> 
> According to International law, Putin is a war criminal.
> 
> You can keep on blaming the victim himself, but there are still people present there who could see the fallacy of your claims.



Did you seriously equate Putin's Russia and Joker's Ukraine as peer competitors? No wonder your grasp over reality is so weak.
The position of two is enshrined in the kind of conventions both are a part off... Ukraine is and was never an equal.

It is perhaps people like you who the joker is listening to, and causing further harm to his people.

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## thetutle

SuperStar20 said:


> My stock portfolio is in deep shit due to this war. What you guys think, how will this war span out. Any expert opinion please.
> How long it will last and how will it end.


I can actually tell you the answer to all these questions. The war will end in a few months with a Ukrainian defeat and installation of a puppet government. Putin will declare victory and the insurgency will ensure that Russians have the about the same level of movement as the Americans did in Afghanistan. After 10 years, Russia will be bankrupt and disillusioned, and will leave Ukraine and Ukraine will be free. Russia may then reform.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500121136520212482

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500118619413704704

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500121871890665481

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## jamahir

RescueRanger said:


> Aeroflot will suspend all international flights from March 8th with the exception of flights to Minsk.



Not even to Algeria, China, Cuba, India and North Korea ?

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## Maarkhoor

dBSPL said:


> Another Su-34? For God's sake, What the hell is the Russian air force doing?
> 
> Under NATO, no country's air force with an acceptable military strength, except for its small states, would have made such gross doctrinal errors or revealed technical inadequacies. It's sad but that's the truth.


It seems some neighboring country somehow managed to send some anti aircraft system in Ukrain.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500114799153360900


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## dBSPL

PakAlp said:


> If the looses are great then they must change tactics. Are the generals asleep? Someone suggested they have no guided bombs, targeting pods.
> 
> The helicopter which was shot is flying really low, could down it with a stone.


I shared it here in the first days, maybe someone will remember. Even the most modern attack helicopters in Russia's hands do not even have exhaust suppressors that dissipate the thermal trace of the engine. Strategic attack jets such as the Su-34 fly almost over apartments. Using a few clues, I can list at least 7-8 technical issues where the Russian army is extremely inadequate by NATO standards.

We've talked about it here before, there can be some advantages to flying low, especially in residential areas. But while the enemy had state of the art shoulder-launched missiles, your planes need a litle more than just Soviet era technology.

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## NA71

Watch @The Eagle @PanzerKiel

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## zartosht

Really disturbing video. random thugs with guns are now stopping and interrogating civilians what could go wrong with that?????






They are not building a citizen militia like the Iranian Basij, or the Iranian created national defense forces of syria that played a huge role in the war. 

Those units were armed, organized, and equipped by Iran. In a manner where Iran or Syria had more or less had control over their activities. 

The west has just opened up the floodgates. They are literally handing out assault rifles to any random person on the street. they know they cant hold ukraine, so they just want to turn it into an ungovernable hell hole. *They are absolutely using the ukrainians like toilet paper to achieve geopolitical aims..*

I dont feel sorry for these stupid ukrainians who are too dumb to see how badly they are being played by the west. And behind all their cringe worthy "support ukraine' nonesense. the west is the biggest enemy of the Ukrainian people. Whether they are smart enough to realize it or not.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500123758023036934


----------



## dBSPL

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500121136520212482
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500118619413704704
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500121871890665481


The letter "Z" brings bad luck. My advice to the Russian generals in charge of logistics is to give the letter "U" a chance.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500040348487524354

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## Ich

jhungary said:


> Depends on what do you mean by "On-Duty"
> 
> And I am pretty sure make up is banned in battlefield even for woman, enemy can spot the gloss and reflection and the red lips from miles away.
> 
> AS I said, if you give me your 100%, I don't really care what you do....



"On-duty" means as soon a soldier is called to weapon or even only is in the barracks, ready for action within few minutes (alarm comes in, grap your package fast as you can and jump on the truck what brings you to the deployment point). There is no time for this mental disorder travesty shit.


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## NA71



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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500124603968069633

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## jhungary

Ich said:


> "On-duty" means as soon a soldier is called to weapon or even only is in the barracks, ready for action within few minutes (alarm comes in, grap your package fast as you can and jump on the truck what brings you to the deployment point). There is no time for this mental disorder travesty shit.


On Duty for us is you are holding a weapon and standing guard.

What you described is what we would refer to as off duty.


----------



## RescueRanger

jamahir said:


> Not even to Algeria, China, Cuba, India and North Korea ?


Nope just Minsk.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Too expensive.
> 
> The only possible solution is the old MIM-72 Chaparral (Which is ground base AIM-9) and there are only 1 country in the proximity have it, that's Turkey...


altitude up to 4km range up to 5km , honestly send them more manpad instead of that 60s antique


----------



## RescueRanger

What kind of sub munition is this? Anyone know ? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500077085750087680


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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500121217025597445

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500125294732185612

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## pkuser2k12



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## Hack-Hook

Oom said:


> What I have seen is that the TB2 performed remarkably well. In that it certainly has a psychological effect on Russian troops, contrains their freedom of movement, they won’t travel in conveys without SHORADS. For the price it’s definitely worth it.


Russia built Tor system for such scenarios , its supposed to protect infantries and armored columns , on other hand Pantsir that was failed in Syria never designed for such role , it was supposed to protect bases and command posts


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499884903676186633

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500126342976843782

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## dBSPL

NA71 said:


> Watch @The Eagle @PanzerKiel


The Russians killed incomparably more Muslims than any other imperial power(or imperial protected structures like Israel) and invaded more Muslim countries. But if you look at the general audience of the forum, Russians always lovable while other demonized. However, it is not the moral foundations that feed these feelings, but the conditions and interests of the countries. Russia is a 'distant threat' to many Muslim countries. The western bloc is an 'imminent threat' for some reasons.

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## Hack-Hook

Lehrasap said:


> You mean Khomeini was a joker too who kept on fighting against Saddam Hussain and brought all the destruction of war upon his people and he is the killer of 1 million Iranians who died in the war?
> 
> According to International law, Putin is a war criminal.
> 
> You can keep on blaming the victim himself, but there are still people present there who could see the fallacy of your claims.


well , war criminal have a definition , if any one is a war criminal certainly its the people who ordered shelling of villages in Luhansk and Donetsk in last 7 year

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## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500059269357572097



Interesting, the pilots are blonde Russian guys, the foot soldiers are often Chechens or some asian ethnic group from Siberia.

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## Zibago

lcloo said:


> All the ways back to the 2,000 people coming out of Africa 70,000 years ago.


Lets go even further back Russia is now Neanderthal land Homo Sapiens should go back


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500128264593027081

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500128124582965255

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500128806350303235

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## Zibago

dBSPL said:


> The Russians killed incomparably more Muslims than any other imperial power(or imperial protected structures like Israel) and invaded more Muslim countries. But if you look at the general audience of the forum, Russians always lovable while other demonized. However, it is not the moral foundations that feed these feelings, but the conditions and interests of the countries. Russia is a 'distant threat' to many Muslim countries. The western bloc is an 'imminent threat' for some reasons.


Moscow is no saint I mean some Pakistanis forget few decades ago they were raping and killing women in large number through helicopter execution and we had to give refuge to 25% of Afghani population
We wont take a side but lets not kid ourselves here in our understandable hatred of west

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## Hack-Hook

dBSPL said:


> If it continues for 30 days like this, Russia may be forced to send aircrafts to Ukraine from very critical regions and bases. Because if they can not stop this pace, they will lose at least 20% of their active inventory within 4-6 weeks.


or probably , they will use smart bombs instead of Iron Bombs or say what the heck and start carpet bombing from high altitude .
I cant understand Russian fascination with unguided bombs

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## Ich

jhungary said:


> On Duty for us is you are holding a weapon and standing guard.
> 
> What you described is what we would refer to as off duty.



Well, such is the beginning of the end of an army. What about the maintenance team working in the barracks on a tank? Also not on duty? Which country is the army you refering to?


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## Vergennes



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## Zibago

LeGenD said:


> My question is this: what is PM Imran Khan doing about it?


Nothing
Even the milk toast PECA got axed by high court
Uzma aliya ki jay ho

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## Hack-Hook

Messerschmitt said:


> My guess is that Russian aviation is flying low to avoid engagements by Ukrainian medium-range SAM systems which however made them more vulnerable to MANPAD attacks.


Ukrain SAm are old and useless , they turn them on and they can easily get targeted


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## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> View attachment 821091


Z - Western Military District (ZVO)
V - Eastern Military District (VVO)
/\ - Southern Military District
/ - Central Military District

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## sur

dBSPL said:


> The Russians killed incomparably more Muslims than any other imperial power(or imperial protected structures like Israel) and invaded more Muslim countries.* But if you look at the general audience of the forum, Russians always lovable while other demonized*. However, it is not the moral foundations that feed these feelings, but the conditions and interests of the countries.


It may appear so, but many (at least I) don't hold Russians lovable for invading Ukr, rather hold Western hypocrisy as despicable.
That's where the *psudo-pro-Rus attitude* emanates from.
So *posting against the Western propaganda *may give an impression as if they are pro-Russian.
No they are not. This is a disgusting war between two evils and it was instigated by West.
So they are just *choosing lesser of the two evils*.

*@5:25+*
"We have led Ukr down the primrose path"
"We have pushed really hard . . Urk to become NATO"
"We have poked the bear in the eye"
"*Do the Russians bear the responsibility for this? I don't think so. Rus doing the dirty work indeed, don't wanna make light of that. But what instigated the Rus . . the US*"

This last line sums up my stream of thoughts (and probably of many who *falsely* appear to be pro-Russians = *psudo-pro-Rus * )

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## Mujahid Memon

Least ambiguous Ukrainians

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## jhungary

Ich said:


> Well, such is the beginning of the end of an army. What about the maintenance team working in the barracks on a tank? Also not on duty? Which country is the army you refering to?



Duty is Duty, you have permanent duty and you have TDY.

If you are in motor pool in your barrack, then you are at your work detail, not on duty, That is why I ask you what is your definition of "on duty" if your answer is on the clock then yes, on work detail is on duty. But On Duty in the US Army (Where I serve) specifically mean On "Guard" Duty or being forward deployed..


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## dBSPL

Hack-Hook said:


> or probably , they will use smart bombs instead of Iron Bombs or say what the heck and start carpet bombing from high altitude .
> I cant understand Russian fascination with unguided bombs


These heavy losses make me think that the Russians do not have enough size guidance kits/smart munitions, and may also not enough targeting pods. It's not that it doesn't exist, it's that there isn't enough inventory for an operation of this caliber. The Russians have probably underestimated Kiev a bit and are keeping their expensive smart munitions/kits as a reserve for the later stages of the operation.

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## Zibago

Mujahid Memon said:


> Least ambiguous Ukrainians
> 
> View attachment 821095


They remind me of the Panjshir resistance

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500015091097522176

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## Hack-Hook

dBSPL said:


> The Russians killed incomparably more Muslims than any other imperial power(or imperial protected structures like Israel) and invaded more Muslim countries. But if you look at the general audience of the forum, Russians always lovable while other demonized. However, it is not the moral foundations that feed these feelings, but the conditions and interests of the countries. Russia is a 'distant threat' to many Muslim countries. The western bloc is an 'imminent threat' for some reasons.


Russian and English empire both killed a lot Muslim , but to me England was worse offender

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## RescueRanger

Another issue that humanitarian crisis breeds is human trafficking and exploitation: I’ve seen the same working in relief camps:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500126474145345538
What a disgusting man! This conflict has many layers and a lot of the safeguarding of vulnerable groups (women, children) are sadly an afterthought because the immediate concerns are establishing a humanitarian corridor, getting people out and putting them in homes.

This is why I don’t cheer when I hear families in Poland and Germany are offering people homes or people offering free rides.

No such thing as a free lunch!

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> First of all, US already said even before the war started, they will not send US force in Ukraine.
> 
> Second of all, there are ALWAYS chances that Ukraine will win, and in fact, if you ask me on Day 1. I will tell you somewhere 5%, Day 4 I will say 10% and day 7 I will say 20%
> 
> Time is on Ukrainian side, Russian already committed 92% of troop staging in the border, which mean at this point, they don't have a "reserve" anymore, they had committed it, and you don't use your reserve this early (This is a 10 days old war) because that is a "Just in case" force. Which mean Russia already think they are in trouble.
> 
> Now does that mean they will lost? No, but does that mean they will win too? No, I am just saying, if Russia had another blunder, that's it, because there are no more reserve to turn the tide.


I am just thinking. Logic would say Russia wins the war and takes the whole country. But what I am seeing is that Russia sends tanks they get destroyed. They send helicopters they get destroyed. Russia cant send 5,000 tanks on one target, they down seem to have the logistics for it. If they keep sending small forces and those faces keep getting hit hard, they will eventually runout of tanks or will just conclude its not with it. 

Once they establish complete air supremacy, it will be another matter. But as you said earlier, even complete air supremacy will not allow CAS to operate freely. Is that right thinking?


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500133780350197766

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499791149619462149


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## Ali_Baba

beijingwalker said:


> Russia is pushing back, Ukraine is just the first to start with.



No - Ukraine is the end of Russia - after this - it will become economically and politically irrelevant. Ukraine will kill of Russia's strength and help the west degrade Russia permanently now.

The economic effect of the sanctions are brutal and they will stay ...

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500133728072437764

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500134340788998148

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500134565112954884


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## Wergeland 2.0

dBSPL said:


> The Russians killed incomparably more Muslims than any other imperial power(or imperial protected structures like Israel) and invaded more Muslim countries. But if you look at the general audience of the forum, Russians always lovable while other demonized. However, it is not the moral foundations that feed these feelings, but the conditions and interests of the countries. Russia is a 'distant threat' to many Muslim countries. The western bloc is an 'imminent threat' for some reasons.



Bro i think it has a lot to do with recent memory. Since the second world war and especially end of the of cold war, It is the UK-US Anglo led world that has intervened the most in Muslim world. Russia might have done the same if they were in the position of power like USA has been, but we dont know, since Russia has been a broken power since end of cold war.

Russia was hated and condemned for the gruesome chechen war, i remember that from my childhood. What they did in Syria has also captured attention.

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## RescueRanger



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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500085126428045312


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## Ich

jhungary said:


> Duty is Duty, you have permanent duty and you have TDY.
> 
> If you are in motor pool in your barrack, then you are at your work detail, not on duty, That is why I ask you what is your definition of "on duty" if your answer is on the clock then yes, on work detail is on duty. But On Duty in the US Army (Where I serve) specifically mean On "Guard" Duty or being forward deployed..



Ah, ok. Sounds strange to me. I refere to the german word "Dienst" or "Wehrdienst". As an example: The police officers are also on duty (Dienst) if they are in the police station or driving around with the police car ect. Same is my understanding for army. If you are in the barracks, you are on duty (Dienst), like the police sitting in the police station.


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## thetutle

waz said:


> This is interesting as the Serbian government seems to be a complete odds with its population which backs Russia to the core.


Its not odd. The Serbian population lives in fantasy land, where the Russians are the mightiest empire on earth and Serbs are the second greatest empire on earth and Russia will take one half of the world and Serbia will take the other half. Starting with Bosnia. Because Bosnia is Serbian land and there are no such people as Bosnians, they are really serbs, but lets kill the Bosnians anyway. 

The government of Serbia do not take as many happy pills as the Serbian population and they realise that they lost all 5 wars they recently started and that they need to trade with their neighbours and Europe at large.


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## Clutch

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 821105



China? Really?... Almost all those companies listed depend on china for manufacturing their goods!

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## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500133780350197766


Pakistani truck “Hold My Beer”

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## dBSPL

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500133780350197766


He says "The wooden shields made by the 2nd largest army of the world for their vehicles"

In just 10 days, Russia's conventional military power image was severely damaged.

The state of the navy is already deplorable.

What remained was the balance of nuclear terror.

I think this will also affect the Russian defense exports.

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## reflecthofgeismar

thetutle said:


> Ok, sounds typical haramlevel. Yes, some Russians have that slight Eskimo or asian mixture, Putin is an excellent example of it. We obviously look more Central European because thats where we have lived for 800 years and we obviously mixed with germans and others in that part fo the world. But also other groups like turks and gypsies and Romanians and native balkan people who lived here before the slavs arrived. I have been all over Europe and noone would ever suspect I am a foreigner until I open my mouth. Except maybe in Norway or Portugal or Spain. I can say I don't look like the typical people in these two countries.
> 
> What is your ancestry?
> 
> 
> 
> Herr Steiner is certainly more tolerant than me, I would not let Armenians anywhere near my headquarters. But I would marry a Ukrainian. Of course I would.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no doubt those Russian mercenaries are the worst kind of people and they certainly caused more death and destruction in the Middle East and North Africa than the real nazis ever did.
> 
> 
> 
> This is exactly right. His desire to recreate the Russian empire will be opposed by the whole Europe. Europe will not be divided along the Cold War lines, the line will be east of Ukraine or perhaps there should be no line at all, but before that can happen Russia has to become a normal country. This war will help them become that country.



Most Bosnians (or any Balkan people) just look like typically Germans, except the Germans with mostly north European heritage.
Yeah, Southern Europeans, like Portuguese, Spaniards, Italians are mostly different looking, same goes for "Norse".
I mean, Europe is VERY diverse, we don't need to import completely foreign-cultures etc. I don't say they are bad, they are just too different.
Otherwise when you propagate "diversity", "freedom" etc. you must take them with all their life-style. 
See, you are more racist to Armenians than Steiner.
But I guess Steiner had only good moments with THESE Armenians. 
Yeah Russian mercs are - to be fair like many other mercs too, not the guys you wanna bring to your grandma for a coffee.
I really don't understand how people can think that all this "nazi" and "NATO" bs should be THE reason of that war.
My ancestry is completely German. Sure thing when Huguenots got killed in France, the line of my grandpa fled the country and then this line fought all wars Germany got involved, especially against the French.

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## Ali_Baba

dBSPL said:


> Just another Ka-52
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500030375388667904I really could not imagine that Russian army aviation would lose so many aircraft.



A better quality of that video - 






Brutal - instant kill shot - lights out.

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## Rafi

RescueRanger said:


> Another issue that humanitarian crisis breeds is human trafficking and exploitation: I’ve seen the same working in relief camps:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500126474145345538
> What a disgusting man! This conflict has many layers and a lot of the safeguarding of vulnerable groups (women, children) are sadly an afterthought because the immediate concerns are establishing a humanitarian corridor, getting people out and putting them in homes.
> 
> This is why I don’t cheer when I hear families in Poland and Germany are offering people homes or people offering free rides.
> 
> No such thing as a free lunch!



This guy is a piece of shit, less humanity than a cockroach.

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## Wergeland 2.0

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 821105



Lol😂


If these companies leave Russia China and other dictatorship, they will ceede marketshare to other companies. Most of the future growth in consumer markets will be in emerging market.

Just some food for thoughts.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500138076735213569


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## waz

thetutle said:


> Its not odd. The Serbian population lives in fantasy land, where the Russians are the mightiest empire on earth and Serbs are the second greatest empire on earth and Russia will take one half of the world and Serbia will take the other half. Starting with Bosnia. Because Bosnia is Serbian land and there are no such people as Bosnians, they are really serbs, but lets kill the Bosnians anyway.
> 
> The government of Serbia do not take as many happy pills as the Serbian population and they realise that they lost all 5 wars they recently started and that they need to trade with their neighbours and Europe at large.



No brother i'm not saying what they're doing is 'odd' rather they are at odds i.e. meaning variance of conflict. I'm wondering how that will bode with Serbian citizens accusing their government of treachery.


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## Clutch

* A Week Of War In Ukraine - Russell Bentley
Update From Russian Operation Z Front Lines *​
By Russell Bentley
3-4-22​

The liberation and de-nazification of Ukraine continues apace. The resistance is strong, and the Russian and Republican Liberators face a desperate and ruthless enemy. The ukrop nazis' most effective tactic is the use of civilians as human shields in built up urban areas. Russia's extreme precautions and deliberate pace to avoid the kind of bloody "collateral damage" that is the trademark of every US and NATO invasion, has cost the Russians quite a lot in time, treasure and blood. But the advance continues, and will continue until all Russian strategic objectives are achieved. 

As of 3 March official military reports for the entire Russia/Ukraine operation are as follows - 
Ukrainian soldiers killed and missing - 8395 Russian & Republican soldiers - 498 dead, 1,600 wounded Civilian casualties throughout the area of military operations exceed 300

*1,612 targets were hit by Russian artillery and precision missiles including 62 command and control centers and communication centers, *
*39 S-300, Buk M-1 and Osa anti-aircraft missile systems as well as 52 radar stations. *
*49 military aircraft were destroyed on the ground and 13 in flight, *
*606 tanks and other armored fighting vehicles were destroyed, *
*67 Multiple Rocket Launchers destroyed, *
*227 howitzers and mortars, *
*53 drones. *
The fake news report about Russians shelling a Ukrainian nuclear site is completely false. On Thursday night, a fire broke out at a building near the six-reactor Zaporozhskaya nuclear power plant, with Ukrainian authorities accusing Russian troops of "shelling" the nuclear site. Moscow had informed the international nuclear authorities on Tuesday that Russian forces had secured the territory around the plant and it was operating normally. 

The Russians had already taken the plant under their control, when a Ukrainian sabotage unit fired on a Russian perimeter patrol with small arms. During the attack, a fire started in an office/storage building on the plant grounds but not connected to the actual reactor. The fire was extinguished and the Ukrainian sabotage unit was eliminated. There is currently no danger of radiation leakage or explosion at the plant. 
The fake news report about Russian forces shelling the Jewish Holocaust Memorial at Babi Yar near Kiev are also completely false. A Russian missile strike was carried out on a main Kiev TV broadcast antenna located about 500 meters from the memorial. The TV antenna was destroyed, the memorial was not hit. 

Below is a map of the military situation as of 3 March, courtesy of Erwan Castel 




( https://alawata-rebellion. blogspot.com/ )​
The strategic city of Khersan has been liberated by Russian forces. Though sporadic fighting continues in the city, it has been liberated and will remain so. The three main areas of active combat operations are currently Kiev, Kharkov and Mariupol. 
Kiev is blocked by Russian troops on the north and west, and Russian troops are actually operating inside the north and west parts of the city. Russian troops continue their advance on Kiev from the east, and will soon begin encircling the city in a southern direction, in conjunction with Russian troops to the west. Strategic missile strikes continue to target Ukrainian command centers, troop and equipment concentrations. The Human Shield tactic is being used in Kiev, but to a lesser extent than elsewhere. 

The completely unregulated handing out over 18,000 AK assault rifles and ammunition on the street to anyone who walked up and wanted one has resulted in scores, if not hundreds, of murders, accidental and indiscriminate shootings in Kiev in the last few days. This criminally insane act on the part of the Kiev regime was done intentionally to cause chaos and anarchy among the civilians and to make the job of Russian liberators more dangerous and difficult. 

Kharkov, Ukraine's second largest city, has a significant percentage of Russian speakers in the population, but also a strong concentration of regular and nationalist troops who will use ethnic Russians as human shields. Russian troops are advancing on Kharkov from the north, northeast and northwest. They are operating in northern suburbs of the city, but the urban operations have met heavy resistance and difficult terrain. Russian casualties there have been significant. 

On the east and west outskirts of Kharkov, Russian units continue to move south to complete the encirclement, which should be complete in the next 48 hours or so. Once the city is surrounded, some Russian troops will be freed to advance towards Poltava to the southwest and Kramatorsk to the southeast. Once Kramatorsk and Zaparozhia are liberated, Russian troops will link up and the bulk of the Ukrainian military on the Donbass Front will be surrounded. 

Mariupol remains a heavily contested area. It has been surrounded by Russian and Republican troops, including my comrades in the VOSTOK Battalion. Mariupol, an industrial city on the coast of the AZOV Sea, has been the headquarters and main base of the nazi AZOV Battalion for many years. Other neo-nazi units as well as ISIS units are stationed there as well. These war criminals will fight to the death, because they know the justice that awaits them if they are captured will be harsh and last for the rest of their lives. These are terrorists and murderers who enjoy killing, and will make the most of innocent civilians as last minute victims and human shields. There are multiple videos of cars full of civilians, men, women and children, being murdered by nazis and other terrorists as they try to leave the city. However, as of today, March 4th, some civilians have successfully evacuated via humanitarian corridors. 

It has now been officially confirmed by t he spokesman of the Donetsk People's Republic's Army, Eduard Basurin , that last night the Ukrainian Armed Forces launched a Tochka-U attack on the AZOV headquarters in southwestern Mariupol. According to his information, the reason for the strike was between Azov's complete refusal to obey AFU command orders to coordinate their actions with the command of the Ukrainian forces. As a result of the strike, more than 20 fighters and 10 units of equipment were destroyed. There are some unconfirmed reports of AZOV terrorists murdering a Ukrainian Army General shortly prior to the missile strike. 

My Personal Experiences Of The Last Week


I spent Feb 28th and March 1st on the Front lines deep into territory formerly controlled by ukrop army. Traveling with Russian war correspondent Alexander Sladkov, we made it as far as the village of Andon, almost 50 Km beyond the former front lines. Fighting is heavy, we saw many blown up ukrop block posts, and armored vehicles from both sides, but mostly ukrop. It was like something out of a World War 2 newsreel, with shell shocked civilians gathered in town squares, wary of us as we approached, then breaking into tears of joy when they understood who we were. Ukrops are randomly bombing the areas they retreat from as they retreat, apparently equally as willing to hit newly liberated civilians as they are to hit the Russian liberators.




(Unexploded GRAD missile inside civilian house in the village of Andon)​The Russian liberation forces are huge - multi-hundreds of tanks and armored infantry vehicles, very tough and ready soldiers, led by highly competent officers. The DPR Republican forces are still holding the line along the central Donetsk Front - Donetsk, Makeevka, Yasynuvata, Gorlovka. There are still extremely large and dangerous concentrations of ukrop soldiers on the Front, and while they have been mostly quiet and have not advanced, they are still shelling civilian areas of all our cities daily. One of the major ukrop strongpoints is the Mari'inka area, barely 5 miles from my house in Petrovsky District of Donetsk. There is also a high concentration of nazis and war criminals there, and it will not be taken without a hard fight. Nothing in this war will come easy. 

CONCLUSION - In the first week of February, I wrote an article  predicting with 90% certainty that before the beginning of March, the Ukraine Army would attack Donbass, and Russia would be forced to react immediately to prevent genocide against the civilians and defenders of the Donbass Republics. With the single exception of Scott Ritter, virtually every other self-styled "expert" and "geopolitical analyst" on the subject of the Donbass War, in both the mainstream and "alt" media not only disagreed, but scoffed at my predictions and even at me personally. And just as in the lead up to the Iraq invasion, these "experts" simply ignored Scott Ritter. 
Well, nobody's right all the time, and I do understand that I have a huge advantage over all the pundits "covering" the war from thousands of miles away, since I am in Donetsk, on the ground, and have been here for the last 8 years. My sources include personal friends who are officers in the DPR Army, including in Spetsnaz units, and people, including myself, who have lived, and live (and die) under ukrop shelling on a daily basis.

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## letsrock

thetutle said:


> This nazi stuff is just Russian propaganda, its a little odd as you say. Russia basically has no real argument to attack so they invent this nonsense.
> 
> There are neo nazis in Ukraine and in Russia. Its a fringe ideology. Its also a way to hype up young guys for a very difficult war.
> 
> Nazis dd not hate slavs, they kind fo thought them to be inferior to the Germans, and in many respects we are. I am a slav. We often talk about how we can be more like germans. When germans invaded Russia they were shocked at the living conditions and lack of toilets etc.
> 
> Also germans liberated many slavs from a genocide and mass murder being committed by the Soviets. This was the case in Ukraine so they will have some nazi sympathies, All my family survived nazi occupation. They were only quite bad to the jews and gypsies.
> 
> Anyway this nazi stuff is just a Russian smokescreen.


Interesting how you normalized nazi behaviour of second world war. Nazis thought of slavs as biologically inferior - in other words you cant be them even if you tried.

Soviets saved you.


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## Wood



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## thetutle

Xestan said:


> This is one of the clearest footages of a MANPAD hitting an aircraft.



Goodness gracious, great balls of fire. Now thats a clean hit. went down fight away. So frontal hit is the best. I have seen mujahideen shoot helicopter sand they start spiralling slowly and you think will it ever go down. Maybe the Americans gave them weaker stingers. Because this is nothing like he 1980's, if this was indeed a stinger that is?


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## Madni Bappa

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500133780350197766


I've seen some extreme Russian truck drivers get themselves unstuck using wood. So I guess that's what the wood is for.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499855918309289984

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## Wergeland 2.0

RescueRanger said:


> Pakistani truck “Hold My Beer”
> View attachment 821109


 That is a Piece of Art. Mesmerizing.

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## letsrock

reflecthofgeismar said:


> Most Bosnians (or any Balkan people) just look like typically Germans, except the Germans with mostly north European heritage.
> Yeah, Southern Europeans, like Portuguese, Spaniards, Italians are mostly different looking, same goes for "Norse".
> I mean, Europe is VERY diverse, we don't need to import completely foreign-cultures etc. I don't say they are bad, they are just too different.
> Otherwise when you propagate "diversity", "freedom" etc. you must take them with all their life-style.
> See, you are more racist to Armenians than Steiner.
> But I guess Steiner had only good moments with THESE Armenians.
> Yeah Russian mercs are - to be fair like many other mercs too, not the guys you wanna bring to your grandma for a coffee.
> I really don't understand how people can think that all this "nazi" and "NATO" bs should be THE reason of that war.
> My ancestry is completely German. Sure thing when Huguenots got killed in France, the line of my grandpa fled the country and then this line fought all wars Germany got involved, especially against the French.


It took second world war for europe to tolerate its diversity. There is no need of another world war to end worldwide racism.


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## Mujahid Memon

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 821105


Lenovo and Tiktok are Chinese companies

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## thetutle

NA71 said:


> On Propaganda war front Russians have failed miserably.... they should have managed it through social media specially on Twitter & FB.


And how would you have them do that when they don't control twitter an Facebook?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499803361746604035


----------



## Madni Bappa

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 821105


He might be serious. They are spooked by the joint statement China and Russia made at the winter Olympics about need for a multipolar world and the ramifications that will have of the dollar.

A lot of hot air is going to be released from the dollar, inflation and economic hardship in an economy that is artificially propped up. A lot of movements are going to happen in fiat currency space.

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## Tamerlane

Titanium100 said:


> I think majority of it came from the Golden Horde whom also were a sultanate that reign in that territory (Ukraine) for centuries before even the Ottomans came..



I want my empire back.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## dBSPL

I'm afraid this war will take too long. Even in the cities that were bombed during the week, there is civil resistance.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500067559227461636

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500138179944673280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499844917727842324

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497649185130176529

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## waz

RescueRanger said:


> Another issue that humanitarian crisis breeds is human trafficking and exploitation: I’ve seen the same working in relief camps:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500126474145345538
> What a disgusting man! This conflict has many layers and a lot of the safeguarding of vulnerable groups (women, children) are sadly an afterthought because the immediate concerns are establishing a humanitarian corridor, getting people out and putting them in homes.
> 
> This is why I don’t cheer when I hear families in Poland and Germany are offering people homes or people offering free rides.
> 
> No such thing as a free lunch!



Plenty of these disgusting pieces of $hit around, judgment will come to them.
Heck when the great Pakistani earthquake happened in 2005 pimps, which included men and women were coming from Punjab to find girls who lost their parents to take from Azad Kashmir for their brothels in the big cities. Local militia outright gunned them down and lynched a few, as they weren't aware of the dynamics and danger of the region when going about their filthy crimes.
The armed forces moved quickly into the areas to protect and lead aid efforts before something larger kicked off.

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## Wood

Vergennes said:


> 1x SU30SM
> 1x SU34
> 3x SU25
> 2x MI24/35
> 1x MI8
> 1x Orlan UAV
> 
> In the last 24 hours.... Ukrainian air defence and manpads making ravages...


Is Russia not using top tier fighters like SU 35 or 57?


----------



## RescueRanger

waz said:


> Plenty of these disgusting pieces of $hit around, judgment will come to them.
> Heck when the great Pakistani earthquake happened in 2005 pimps, which included men and women were coming from Punjab to find girls who lost their parents to take from Azad Kashmir for their brothels in the big cities. Local militia outright gunned them down and lynched a few, as they weren't aware of the dynamics and danger of the region when going about their filthy crimes.
> The armed forces moved quickly into the areas to protect and lead aid efforts before something larger kicked off.


Yes we rescued a few young girls who were being smuggled out of Battagram for marriage because their families had died. 

How can 15/16 girls consent to marriage? That time was a very difficult time and test for us. 

Look at what’s happening in Afghanistan. It’s heartbreaking when you think abou that human toll

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500142265246826499

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## Vapnope

RescueRanger said:


> Yes we rescued a few young girls who were being smuggled out of Battagram for marriage because their families had died.
> 
> How can 15/16 girls consent to marriage? That time was a very difficult time and test for us.
> 
> Look at what’s happening in Afghanistan. It’s heartbreaking when you think abou that human toll


Man i really hope that you gave the culprits hell. Such scum should not be allowed to go back in the population, ever.

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## Madni Bappa

Tamerlane said:


> I want my empire back.


Ask Malik Riaz he will sell it back to you.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

Interview from White House adviser to sanctions on Russia. He says that WH is considering steps to increase energy production from America. Hope this will mean Key Stone pipeline will be revived. Announcements are expected next week

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## Madni Bappa

RescueRanger said:


> Hold My Beer


Hold my rooh afza

Keep it halal bro

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## Patriot forever

ANDSF vibes all around this conflict. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500123933168877568
Drugs and media is the hallmark of this conflict. The aidor brigade or azoz is just like warlords during their last day's all over again and the proposed resistance/insurgency is going to end the same as it did with Saleh. ( depends how long US will support it). 

All I can say is Ukraine is wasting time and it will cost the Ukrainian population dearly.


----------



## RescueRanger

Madni Bappa said:


> Hold my rooh afza
> 
> Keep it halal bro









😂

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## thetutle

deX said:


>


What a senile fool. He thinks 45 million ukranians are going to accept living under a tyrant when they have tasted freedom. Not gonna happen grandpa.


----------



## Madni Bappa

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500138076735213569


Just hope they don't turn out to be some bum Ukrainian gopnik 24-48 hours later.

Most Ukrainian fake news gets debunked within this time.


----------



## CrazyZ

Ali_Baba said:


> No - Ukraine is the end of Russia - after this - it will become economically and politically irrelevant. Ukraine will kill of Russia's strength and help the west degrade Russia permanently now.
> 
> The economic effect of the sanctions are brutal and they will stay ...


Easily said then done. Russia has hard assets (wheat oil gas) that the rest of the world wants. EU and USA control the financial high ground but there position is slipping. QE money printing and weaponizing of financial controls.......all these hurt the western economic hegemony as well. From a practical prospective does a third country want Russian wheat oil gas or western e-printed currencies (which comes with sanctions risks)? In the era of massive fiat money printing Russia's hard assets have immense value.


----------



## thetutle

That Guy said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499843946578653185
> This is the alleged translation.


It's the correct translation. 

Wow, 1,500 paratroopers landed.

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## Oublious

Russian modern fighters shot down because of out dated Ukrain airdefence lol. They are trying to avoid to fly low, but if you fly low you will be hunt down with MANPADS. What this means Russian weapon capabilities sucks, if you are not capable with SEAD or DEAD missions you should not go to war  .

Russian troll army on PDF experienced another faillure...


----------



## Patriot forever

Wood said:


> Interview from White House adviser to sanctions on Russia. He says that WH is considering steps to increase energy production from America. Hope this will mean Key Stone pipeline will be revived. Announcements are expected next week



For the Americans but for the Europeans and the rest of the world its only going to be very expensive energy.

Its basic science RLNG through ship is more costly than pipeline and America will not be able to replace in full even if it doubles its capacity which will take alot of time. 

Don't blindly believe what the white house says. With the growing energy consumption globally its only going to get worse. 

You can save this tweet because Europe will be dependant on Russian gas for a long time. If they could they would have done it already instead of going for banning cats, fifa or IKEA. 

China will gain as it will ensure its energy security at a much cheaper cost.

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## tower9

Patriot forever said:


> For the Americans but for the Europeans and the rest of the world its only going to be very expensive energy.
> 
> Its basic science RLNG through ship is more costly than pipeline and America will not be able to replace in full even if it doubles its capacity which will take alot of time.
> 
> Don't blindly believe what the white house says. With the growing energy consumption globally its only going to get worse.
> 
> You can save this tweet because Europe will be dependant on Russian gas for a long time. If they could they would have done it already instead of going for banning cats, fifa or IKEA.
> 
> China will gain as it will ensure its energy security at a much cheaper cost.


Europe cannot afford to ban Russian energy no matter how upset they get. That is a fact.

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## Wood

Patriot forever said:


> For the Americans but for the Europeans and the rest of the world its only going to be very expensive energy.
> 
> Its basic science RLNG through ship is more costly than pipeline and America will not be able to replace in full even if it doubles its capacity which will take alot of time.
> 
> Don't blindly believe what the white house says. With the growing energy consumption globally its only going to get worse.
> 
> You can save this tweet because Europe will be dependant on Russian gas for a long time. If they could they would have done it already instead of going for banning cats, fifa or IKEA.
> 
> China will gain as it will ensure its energy security at a much cheaper cost.


US imports a lot of oil from Middle East and Russia. If these imports are redistributed to countries in Europe, it will help.

It is well known and acknowledged that the switch from Russian energy will be slow. But strategically, it is an imperative now and will happen!


----------



## Vergennes

fresh pictures coming up



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500144147709272068

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Foinikas

Meanwhile in Turkey...


----------



## Rafi

Vapnope said:


> Man i really hope that you gave the culprits hell. Such scum should not be allowed to go back in the population, ever.



Summarily executed by soldiers and buried in mass graves, which would miss a few more corpses in that tragedy.

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## Madni Bappa

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499855918309289984


I can be in his office too.
With a green screen that is good quality

Reactions: Like Like:
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## That Guy

Foinikas said:


> Meanwhile in Turkey...
> 
> View attachment 821124


They're allowing ships that are apart of the black sea fleet, while denying those that aren't.

Turkey is doing all it can, outside of declaring war on Russia.


----------



## Madni Bappa

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499803361746604035


Me running around with Panzerschrek in MOHAA



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500138179944673280
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499844917727842324
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497649185130176529


Russian Ukrainian sentence:
Something something BLYAT something something something BLYAT. BLYAT something BLYAT something something. BLYAT something Cyka BLYAT

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

Nice opinion piece by Johnny Harris!

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## fallschirmjager786

More Russian pilots captured or killed today, expensive hardware like Su 30, Su-34, MIG helos burning. Looks like Russian SEAD worked real well. Now we know why the Russian AF was missing in action. Afraid of loosing the expensive airframes. Worse than the loss of the airframe is the capture/loss of the pilots including the fat dude who was a senior aviator in Syria. Guess bombing defenseless muslims in Syria is not equivalent to a real war with AD. 

All of this on the day Putin claims all Ukrainian AF and AD assets dead.


----------



## Rafi

China is planning to take over the business of Western firms that have left Russia. Looking to have a big export surplus.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Madni Bappa

Oublious said:


> Russian troll army on PDF experienced another faillure...


Yes we are orphaned now. 

What will we do? Bappa jani help us lmao 😂


----------



## LeGenD

GumNaam said:


> it's not that simple...some places Russia has an edge, some places nato has an edge.


True, but NATO is far more capable in the aviation and EW regimes. Meaning? NATO can establish and enforce NO FLY ZONE over entire Ukraine if it wants to but it won't do this due to political factors - no obligation to shield Ukraine.

You should read following article:









Russia’s Involvement In Syria Proves That It's Far Behind The Western World


Russia has made a lot of noise about the modern weapons it has used during combat in Syria and how effective these new weapons are. Fresh Su-34 attack jets scream through the skies, while the latest in small arms test their mettle. But the reality is most of what Russia has used is not as shiny...




jalopnik.com





It explains a lot about Russian military assets (and performance) in Syria. 

There are some Russian technological advances to account for in the present but not much difference on a broader level. 

Russian also have financial constraints.

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> you are talking about 2,300,000 to 900,000 troop (only counted active personnel) and over 500 million population in the West vs 150 million in Russia. I can honestly say the only thing can "save" Russia is their nuclear weapon...



Also we have to remember that the technological capabilities of the US are unparralleled. and the capabilities they have to prevent a full Russian nuclear launch would be tremendous. 

I read or heard somewhere that during the Cold War the Americans pinged every Russian nuclear sub simultaneously to show them that they were aware of their location. Thats quite a scary capability. If true, they had the ability to eliminate one arm of the Russian nuclear triad in one moment using conventional means. With micro drones and hacking capabilities, the nuclear exchange almost seems winnable by the west. 

Not saying its worth trying, but it gives the world a chance.


----------



## notorious_eagle

LeGenD said:


> True, but NATO is far more capable in the aviation and EW regimes. Meaning? NATO can establish and enforce NO FLY ZONE over entire Ukraine if it wants to but it won't do this due to political factors - no obligation to shield Ukraine.
> 
> You should read following article:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia’s Involvement In Syria Proves That It's Far Behind The Western World
> 
> 
> Russia has made a lot of noise about the modern weapons it has used during combat in Syria and how effective these new weapons are. Fresh Su-34 attack jets scream through the skies, while the latest in small arms test their mettle. But the reality is most of what Russia has used is not as shiny...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jalopnik.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It explains a lot about Russian military assets (and performance) in Syria.
> 
> There are some Russian technological advances to account for in the present but not much difference on a broader level.
> 
> Russian also have financial constraints.


NATO spends a combined $1 Trillion on Defense, out of which the US spends $800 billion. Only a fool would think the Russians even stand a chance in a conventional fight against NATO.

I am simply at a loss at how Russia executed this war. The entire Russian General Staff should be fired, and i used to have the highest amount of respect for the Russian General Staff.

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## Mandalorian_CA

notorious_eagle said:


> NATO spends a combined $1 Trillion on Defense, out of which the US spends $800 billion. Only a fool would think the Russians even stand a chance in a conventional fight against NATO.
> 
> I am simply at a loss at how Russia executed this war. The entire Russian General Staff should be fired, and i used to have the highest amount of respect for the Russian General Staff.



Russia has won, its over. West dumped Ukraine already now unless India sends its special forces Ukraine cannot win.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Microsoft

gambit said:


> No, I mean what I have always say on this forum: Do not jump to conclusion. But again, as I often said, I do not debate people to change their minds but to present an alternative viewpoint to the many unknown silent readers out there. Is it too much to wait for some more details, even incomplete details? You do not have to answer. That was a rhetorical question. The image I posted is evident enough that in the heat of combat, it is not always clear on what you see, or what you think you saw when you finally have time to rest and reflect. Embedded journalists, aka 'embeds', know the dangers of what they do, which includes being mistaken for an enemy soldier. I met a couple from Desert Storm.



I just asked a couple of questions it seems like you don't want to give answers. Not really interested in your anecdotes though.


----------



## fallschirmjager786

notorious_eagle said:


> NATO spends a combined $1 Trillion on Defense, out of which the US spends $800 billion. Only a fool would think the Russians even stand a chance in a conventional fight against NATO.
> 
> I am simply at a loss at how Russia executed this war. The entire Russian General Staff should be fired, and i used to have the highest amount of respect for the Russian General Staff.


Well at the rate they seem to be loosing some senior staff officers to snipers etc they may not have to be fired all at once. On a serious note, I guess this is the result of having civilians in positions of power. Putin does not wany any general getting too powerful. Additionally the corrupt nature of Russian society is laid bare where everone is skimming something. True reformers would have likely been sidelined as that would require curtalining corrupt officers and leaders. 

Goes to show, you can't rely on corrupt organization for national defence. Read something somewhere that stated that the Russians are out of the Kalibr missiles and can't make too many more because 60% of the parts are foreign made. The sanctions are going to hurt...

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## notorious_eagle

Hon @Joe Shearer @PanzerKiel 

Have you Gentlemen been following this war? Zhukov would be rolling in his grave right now seeing how the Russians have executed their battle plans. I used to have the highest amount of respect for the Russian General Staff, not anymore. Rather then using out of the box thinking and maneuvers, they seem to be now just relying on brute force to get through. 

The amount of equipment that was abandoned on the road because they had not done the necessary maintenance is just making my head explode. 

Would love to hear what you Gents think

Reactions: Like Like:
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## beijingwalker

thetutle said:


> Also we have to remember that the technological capabilities of the US are unparralleled. and the capabilities they have to prevent a full Russian nuclear launch would be tremendous.
> 
> I read or heard somewhere that during the Cold War the Americans pinged every Russian nuclear sub simultaneously to show them that they were aware of their location. Thats quite a scary capability. If true, they had the ability to eliminate one arm of the Russian nuclear triad in one moment using conventional means. With micro drones and hacking capabilities, the nuclear exchange almost seems winnable by the west.
> 
> Not saying its worth trying, but it gives the world a chance.


We learned their superior unparalleled retreat from Afghanistan barely a year ago, that hasty fleeing was epic.

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## RescueRanger

Volnovakha: vladimir zhoga - Commander of the Pro Russian / Donbas SPARTA battalion (Motorola) has been killed by Ukrainian forces.







This last video shows him leading an operation in Volnkvakha. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500153624986537984


----------



## LeGenD

Titanium100 said:


> It has something to do with against who and what capability they have example back in 2003 the gap was great between US and Iraq and alot of people falsely base their measurement on that. Example if the US had engaged an Iraq that never saw the Saddam toppling in 2022 it would have been 100 times more hard all tho the Americans would get it done but it would come at a great cost and much slower and hack it took the Americans 1 year to take Mosul from freaking small ISIS hence it would have taken the Americans atleast 3-4 years to secure the country with a fairly great cost.
> 
> Example smaller countries could bloody the Americans and it all depends on what type of systems and weaponry they have example Poland, Algeria, South Korea, etc etc


Bro,

You will notice substantial difference in force composition and battle tactics adopted for *Operation Desert Storm* in 1991 (vs. Iraq when it was at the top of its military strength and confidence in the region) and the same for *Operation Iraqi Freedom* in 2003 (vs. Iraq when its military strength had eroded and embraced militias model). Both operations were brilliantly executed nevertheless.

NATO definitely understands the difference between a near-peer adversary and others.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500156105967685633

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500149030495608832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500160597559848961

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500134424368848899

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## Joe Shearer

notorious_eagle said:


> Hon @Joe Shearer @PanzerKiel
> 
> Have you Gentlemen been following this war? Zhukov would be rolling in his grave right now seeing how the Russians have executed their battle plans. I used to have the highest amount of respect for the Russian General Staff, not anymore. Rather then using out of the box thinking and maneuvers, they seem to be now just relying on brute force to get through.
> 
> The amount of equipment that was abandoned on the road because they had not done the necessary maintenance is just making my head explode.
> 
> Would love to hear what you Gents think


I have been looking at this with some wonder, some anguish and some depressed conclusions about the French saying, 'Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.' The more things change, the more they stay the same.

On this, since you have invited @PanzerKeil to offer his comments, it seems appropriate to let him speak first.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## fallschirmjager786

Looks like the Ukrainians are operating Rus origin AA Manpads closer to the frontlines. Where are the stingers?? Any pics of captured stingers??

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Titanium100

LeGenD said:


> NATO definitely understands the difference between a near-peer adversary and others.



Timeline is key here brother.. You may ask why? We are experiencing explosion of technology. Example American carriers is almost useless nowadays and if not it will be completely useless in 5-10 years time. The technological explosion is going at much faster rate in every single sector.. You can call the era since 2005 the great technology explosion I mean in every single sector we advanced at greater speed then we anticipated.. Just look at how fast your phones have been changing in the last 15 years or your Tv's..

2 decades is a long time hence the measurement doesn't paint the picture for me because technically these were 2 different eras taking into account the speed which all sectors advanced and modernized


----------



## Type59

LeGenD said:


> Bro,
> 
> You will notice substantial difference in force composition and battle tactics adopted for *Operation Desert Storm* in 1991 (vs. Iraq when it was at the top of its military strength and confidence in the region) and the same for *Operation Iraqi Freedom* in 2003 (vs. Iraq when its military strength had eroded and embraced militias model). Both operations were brilliantly executed nevertheless.
> 
> NATO definitely understands the difference between a near-peer adversary and others.


Operations were well handed, but Iraq has dragged USA down. Despite huge resources invested that could have better spent at home. Your opinion might be different, these post 9/11 wars have impacted US economy and society in a negative way.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## deX

thetutle said:


> What a senile fool. He thinks 45 million ukranians are going to accept living under a tyrant when they have tasted freedom. Not gonna happen grandpa.


Haha... If i remember correctly from the video, he just talked/focused about/on destruction not "living"


----------



## Nomad40

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500105460506112003
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500105899461038081


Sergei - Squadron Leader/Commander - Operated from Crimea- Born far east Russia- something number 59882



Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500088932087869445
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500097770027462658


Ukrainian interrogators had a long conversation with Major Krasnoruchev. The premise of the conversation as per the Krasnouruchev is that the orders are unclear- not enough time to study maps- Were told civilians evacuated- he does not support Russian political action- did not know where he was being sent. 

Fishy statements by a veteran attack pilot.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500162421138280451

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500164352338497539

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500159409976131584


----------



## maverick1977

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500156105967685633
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500149030495608832
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500160597559848961
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500134424368848899




Huge losses and the video now





__ https://www.facebook.com/148530445855064/posts/940983796609721

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## LeGenD

beijingwalker said:


> We learned their superior unparalleled retreat from Afghanistan barely a year ago, that hasty fleeing was epic.


Dear, 

Responses such as these are not helpful in conversations about conventional military technologies, tactics and doctrines of any country. 

Limited-scale and largely COIN warfare witnessed in Afghanistan is a different topic.

NATO delivered heavy blows to Afghan Taliban in times of Bush administration but situation on the ground changed when Obama administration declared an end to major combat operations in the region in 2014 - NATO was no longer allowed to fight Afghan Taliban on a broader level after this decree. Talks with Afghan Taliban had commenced in times of Obama administration in fact. Biden administration did not give a shit about Afghanistan on the other hand - it called for unconditional withdrawal. 

Afghan Taliban were not idiots either:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


@dBSPL @Vergennes You two are reposting the same tweets again and again. The funny thing is you two are frequently posting the videos of each other. Kindly Stop making a mess of the thread. who are you ? BTW I went through the last 40 pages and there's only one time I posted a video already...



defence.pk





Conventional methods of warfare are not suitable for irregular methods of warfare from cost-benefit standpoint.

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## Oublious

Mandalorian_CA said:


> Russia has won, its over. West dumped Ukraine already now unless India sends its special forces Ukraine cannot win.




what did they gaing of this?


the only one who won is china, they will charge Russian for using ther bank account in china. And buy cheap oil and gas from Russia, other hand Pakistan will pay the double price for gas and oil  .

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## Foinikas

That Guy said:


> They're allowing ships that are apart of the black sea fleet, while denying those that aren't.
> 
> Turkey is doing all it can, outside of declaring war on Russia.


No it's that CBS put the Bosphorus area in the same colors as they show Greece on the map. And Turks were angry about it.

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## Trango Towers

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500100744980353025


Even as a Pakistani I am saddened by this and disgusted by the embassy staff.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ali_Baba

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500156105967685633
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500149030495608832
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500160597559848961
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500134424368848899



Wow - it is snowing in that picture - does that favour Russia now(they wanted it to be cold at the start to help with the movement of heavy vehicles).


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500139878608257029


----------



## Wergeland 2.0

Oublious said:


> what did they gaing of this?
> 
> 
> the only one who won is china, they will charge Russian for using ther bank account in china. And buy cheap oil and gas from Russia, other hand Pakistan will pay the double price for gas and oil  .



That is the major question. I am scratching my head too. I think its as simple as our politicians have miscalculated Russia and its determination to prevent Ukraine from becoming a NATO member.

Too often we think politicians are smarter og superior when it comes to strategies and descisions. But speaking from experience there is a tendency to overestimate how intelligent and wise people in power are in real. Sometimes all you need is sheer tenacity and luck to get rich or powerful. If they are suited to rule a nation is a completely different topic.

In democracy this is one of the major pitfalls, because people elect a likable and popular candidate, which not nessecarily means he or she is the most suitable candidate.

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## thetutle

dBSPL said:


> I shared it here in the first days, maybe someone will remember. Even the most modern attack helicopters in Russia's hands do not even have exhaust suppressors that dissipate the thermal trace of the engine.


I think the one shot over Odessa today is a Mi24 with some sort of engine engine dissipator.

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## mmr

Wood said:


> Interview from White House adviser to sanctions on Russia. He says that WH is considering steps to increase energy production from America. Hope this will mean Key Stone pipeline will be revived. Announcements are expected next week


That would be wonderful if key stone get approve.

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## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500123758023036934



At 20 seconds. Machine gun 10/10, scope 10/10, moustache 10/10.



dBSPL said:


> The letter "Z" brings bad luck. My advice to the Russian generals in charge of logistics is to give the letter "U" a chance.



They can't, its a Croatian ww2 nazi symbol. and they are engaging in a de-nazifiction operation.


----------



## The SC

Russian strategic planning is deep and all western actions will have been considered and planned for. In addition, the cumulative effects of western sanctions are beginning to rebound on their authors.

- NASA is no longer a cutting edge technological concern. For years now it has relied on the import of high precision chip and circuit technologies from China and rocket engines from Russia. The US is so dependent on Russian rocket engines that these technologies have always been exempted from sanctions. Having exposed their dependency, the Russian response was obvious. Russia first announced that would no longer be cooperating with either NASA or the European Space Agencies. Both organizations rely on Russia to supply and man the International Space Station. This was followed by the announcement that Russia would no longer sell rocket engines to the US and Europe..

- Russia and Belorussia are the world's largest aluminum exporters. Due to the sanctions, aluminum prices have jumped on the London Futures Exchange to $1440 per ton. Aluminum is a critical resource in modern industry and construction.. This will cause more Inflation..
Also, according to research firm Techcet, Ukraine supplies more than 90% of the U.S.’s semiconductor-grade neon, a gas integral to the lasers used in the chip-making process, while Russia supplies 35% of the U.S.’s palladium supply, a rare metal that can be used to create semiconductors..Without Neon there is simply no semiconductor industry. Same for titanium sponge. This is the worst choke-point of them all..

- The US claims to be a net oil exporter, but this is not strictly correct. The US requires heavy oil from Russia which is mixed with Canadian and US crude in the refining process to manufacture the variety of petroleum products it consumes and exports, such as diesel.. 25% of US oil imports come from Russia who has announced it will no longer supply the US with oil. And with Europe now openly hostile, it's only a matter of time before Russia cuts off their oil and gas supply.. worsening the inflation rate..

- Another significant Russia and Belorussia exports to Europe is phosphates and fertilizers which are outputs of the Russian petrochemical industry. European agriculture is wholly depending on industrial fertilizers.. and that resource might be cut off too..hence creating a food crisis and yet, more inflation..

- On Day One of the Russian operation, gold and silver prices leapt upwards as investors sought safety and security. Both gold and silver prices are subject to active market suppression and prices returned to the status quo ante on Monday 28th February 2022. Suppression involves the massive purchase of gold futures to flood the market and thereby lower the price. This strategy only pumps up futures liabilities which will need to be repaid at some time in the future..With Russia sanctioned and cut out of SWIFT, we can expect Russia, which holds substantial physical gold reserves, will seek payment for exports in physical gold. The US has virtually no gold reserves.. so the pressure on physical gold prices can be expected to rise. If physical gold prices rise, when the gold futures come due, the higher spot price will apply.. and provoke inflation.. But not much for Russia.. Since the Russian Central Bank's decision to increase lending rates from 9% to 20% was a critically important move. Russia is prepared to weather the inevitable inflation this crisis will cause (inflation in Russia is running at 8% before the crisis). In the west, where near zero official interest rates have been maintained for nearly a decade, there is NO capacity to weather the inflationary storm. An increase of only 2 or 3% will send many national economies to the wall..

- So far the Russian military operation in Ukraine has been a reconnaissance in force preceded by the destruction of the supplies and headquarters of the Ukrainian Armed Forces by standoff weapons. The object being to find out where the Ukrainian forces are, to surround them, to check existing Russian intelligence against reality and, at the same time, destroy known headquarters, air and naval assets, supplies and ammunition depots..
At the moment they are readying for the next phase. The long column that so obsessed the “experts” on CNN and other media is the preparation for the next phase.
What appears so far is that Russia has created three encirclements. Probably the most important one is the one around Mariupol where the main concentration of Azov, the principal nazi force, is.. Another is being established around the main concentration of the Ukrainian Armed Forces facing LDPR. And there appears to be another developing to the east of Kiev. A super encirclement combining all three is visible. The nazis will be exterminated and the ordinary Ukrainian soldier will be allowed to go home.. Azov battalion started as a battalion, but is not battalion size anymore. It was at least at brigade size when it was absorbed into the official Ukrainian military along with the smaller militias. However, its officers were spread throughout the Ukrainian military.







Different sources..

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## thetutle

dBSPL said:


> The Russians killed incomparably more Muslims than any other imperial power(or imperial protected structures like Israel) and invaded more Muslim countries. But if you look at the general audience of the forum, Russians always lovable while other demonized. However, it is not the moral foundations that feed these feelings, but the conditions and interests of the countries. Russia is a 'distant threat' to many Muslim countries. The western bloc is an 'imminent threat' for some reasons.


Yes, its just mind boggling that someone who is a muslim can find the west more of a threat than Russia. 

Yes I know Iraq happened, but I cant see how someone like Saddam is worth fighting for. Or any dictator.


----------



## RescueRanger

Serious question: what’s the value of scrap metal these days? Ukrainians sitting on a potential gold mine right about now.

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## Wesen Hunter

Kharkiv will fall by Wednesday

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## RescueRanger

Trango Towers said:


> Even as a Pakistani I am saddened by this and disgusted by the embassy staff.


Sadly you and I both know this is a common mentality in South Asia, especially among CSS types. Oh how I hate CSS officers.

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## Oublious

The SC said:


> Russian strategic planning is deep and all western actions will have been considered and planned for. In addition, the cumulative effects of western sanctions are beginning to rebound on their authors.
> 
> - NASA is no longer a cutting edge technological concern. For years now it has relied on the import of high precision chip and circuit technologies from China and rocket engines from Russia. The US is so dependent on Russian rocket engines that these technologies have always been exempted from sanctions. Having exposed their dependency, the Russian response was obvious. Russia first announced that would no longer be cooperating with either NASA or the European Space Agencies. Both organizations rely on Russia to supply and man the International Space Station. This was followed by the announcement that Russia would no longer sell rocket engines to the US and Europe..
> 
> - Russia and Belorussia are the world's largest aluminum exporters. Due to the sanctions, aluminum prices have jumped on the London Futures Exchange to $1440 per ton. Aluminum is a critical resource in modern industry and construction.. This will cause more Inflation..
> Also, according to research firm Techcet, Ukraine supplies more than 90% of the U.S.’s semiconductor-grade neon, a gas integral to the lasers used in the chip-making process, while Russia supplies 35% of the U.S.’s palladium supply, a rare metal that can be used to create semiconductors..Without Neon there is simply no semiconductor industry. Same for titanium sponge. This is the worst choke-point of them all..
> 
> - The US claims to be a net oil exporter, but this is not strictly correct. The US requires heavy oil from Russia which is mixed with Canadian and US crude in the refining process to manufacture the variety of petroleum products it consumes and exports, such as diesel.. 25% of US oil imports come from Russia who has announced it will no longer supply the US with oil. And with Europe now openly hostile, it's only a matter of time before Russia cuts off their oil and gas supply.. worsening the inflation rate..
> 
> - Another significant Russia and Belorussia exports to Europe is phosphates and fertilizers which are outputs of the Russian petrochemical industry. European agriculture is wholly depending on industrial fertilizers.. and that resource might be cut off too..hence creating a food crisis and yet, more inflation..
> 
> - On Day One of the Russian operation, gold and silver prices leapt upwards as investors sought safety and security. Both gold and silver prices are subject to active market suppression and prices returned to the status quo ante on Monday 28th February 2022. Suppression involves the massive purchase of gold futures to flood the market and thereby lower the price. This strategy only pumps up futures liabilities which will need to be repaid at some time in the future..With Russia sanctioned and cut out of SWIFT, we can expect Russia, which holds substantial physical gold reserves, will seek payment for exports in physical gold. The US has virtually no gold reserves.. so the pressure on physical gold prices can be expected to rise. If physical gold prices rise, when the gold futures come due, the higher spot price will apply.. and provoke inflation.. But not much for Russia.. Since the Russian Central Bank's decision to increase lending rates from 9% to 20% was a critically important move. Russia is prepared to weather the inevitable inflation this crisis will cause (inflation in Russia is running at 8% before the crisis). In the west, where near zero official interest rates have been maintained for nearly a decade, there is NO capacity to weather the inflationary storm. An increase of only 2 or 3% will send many national economies to the wall..
> 
> - So far the Russian military operation in Ukraine has been a reconnaissance in force preceded by the destruction of the supplies and headquarters of the Ukrainian Armed Forces by standoff weapons. The object being to find out where the Ukrainian forces are, to surround them, to check existing Russian intelligence against reality and, at the same time, destroy known headquarters, air and naval assets, supplies and ammunition depots..
> At the moment they are readying for the next phase. The long column that so obsessed the “experts” on CNN and other media is the preparation for the next phase.
> What appears so far is that Russia has created three encirclements. Probably the most important one is the one around Mariupol where the main concentration of Azov, the principal nazi force, is.. Another is being established around the main concentration of the Ukrainian Armed Forces facing LDPR. And there appears to be another developing to the east of Kiev. A super encirclement combining all three is visible. The nazis will be exterminated and the ordinary Ukrainian soldier will be allowed to go home.. Azov battalion started as a battalion, but is not battalion size anymore. It was at least at brigade size when it was absorbed into the official Ukrainian military along with the smaller militias. However, its officers were spread throughout the Ukrainian military.
> 
> View attachment 821132
> 
> 
> Different sources..




What a BS, source is a PDF member....


----------



## LeGenD

Type59 said:


> Operations were well handed, but Iraq has dragged USA down. Despite huge resources invested that could have better spent at home. Your opinion might be different, these post 9/11 wars have impacted US economy and society in a negative way.


I agree with you on this.

It can be very difficult and expensive to invade and occupy some countries *for long-term basis* due to following factors:

1. Modern warfare is increasingly HYBRID in character (conventional model + insurgency model + cyber model).

2. Technologies are increasingly miniaturized, lethal and suitable for insurgency model of warfare.

3. Regional geopolitical environment - the country which is being subjected to invasion and occupation, might have allies to begin with or find support in neighboring countries. Other countries can choose to intervene and supply arms to the country which is trying to resist invading forces.

4. Costs of logistics, equipment maintenance, and managing a new government will balloon over time.

USA experienced all of the above in Iraq and to some extent in Afghanistan.

There was a discussion on these lines about China as well:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


The problem of this kind of analysis is that these assume that NATO was in process of disbanding , while in truth NATO is expanding ... What people were assuming was not so much NATO "dying," but being defunct, because NATO's brain was dead. NATO will survive, and strengthen, but with much...



defence.pk

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## gambit

TNT said:


> And u say u have military experience? *Do they select low IQ dumbs in US military?* Because since yesterday u cant seem to be able to understand a simple point.


Consider the US military is the most preeminent in the world, looks like our 'IQ dumbs' are smarter than the rest. You better petition the Pakistani Air Force to stop training with US because the USAF is filled with 'IQ dumbs' like myself.



TNT said:


> I am saying this again,I never said it "compels" but it does give the "option", doesnt it?? So even if placing nukes isnt compulsory, it is an option, which means Ukraine joining NATO have the "option" of allowing NATO nukes on its land. Even having this option is enough reason for Russia to invade.


Then why not attack Turkey? Or any other NATO member near to Russia? Did you even researched on which NATO member hosts nuclear weapons in their countries.



TNT said:


> Seriously i feel like arguing with a 5 yr old, though 5 yrs old may have more intelligence than u.


Then you better find a five yr old because you are not doing a good job.

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## EasyNow

Oublious said:


> what did they gaing of this?
> 
> 
> the only one who won is china, they will charge Russian for using ther bank account in china. And buy cheap oil and gas from Russia, other hand Pakistan will pay the double price for gas and oil  .



The more things are unfolding, it seems the west really has forced Russia into suicide. 

I saw an interview with Putin recently explaining why he had to act because nato was encroaching closer and closer. 

He was left in a position damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. So he chose to go down fighting.

All in all, I believe now, it was a bit of a western masterclass. They pushed Putin into hara Kiri - and Russians get to look like the bad guys.

The effectiveness of sanctions is obvious on the Russian economy - it is obliterated. Despite many on this site saying sanctions are useless, already planned for, neutralised by China, etc. Putins declaration today that sanctions are an "act of war" prove that it is hurting badly. 

Chinese miscalculated too and seem to have quietened down their involvement.

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## Clutch



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## The SC

World food prices reached their highest point in the 61-year history of the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization's Food Price Index, pushed higher by supply chain issues and the Ukraine crisis.

The monthly index, released Friday by the organization, best known as FAO, averaged 140.7 points in February. That is 3.9 percent higher than in January, 24.1 percent higher than in February 2021, and 2 percent above its previous all-time high set in February 2011.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202203/1253982.shtml

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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> World food prices reached their highest point in the 61-year history of the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization's Food Price Index, pushed higher by supply chain issues and the Ukraine crisis.
> 
> The monthly index, released Friday by the organization, best known as FAO, averaged 140.7 points in February. That is 3.9 percent higher than in January, 24.1 percent higher than in February 2021, and 2 percent above its previous all-time high set in February 2011.
> 
> https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202203/1253982.shtml


North African nations will suffer here because they rely on a particular finely ground wheat they use for local bread making and with sanctions on Russia they can’t buy it anymore .

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## NA71



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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500173979893608450^ I think we all know that it's not "airlines" what he is actually worried about here.

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## Patriot forever

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500174747350487045
Even Mexico.


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## NA71

Latest Pak & Russian FMs talked on phone.

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## Clutch

Wood said:


> Nice opinion piece by Johnny Harris!



If America can invade Afghanistan because of a 0.01% of the population was Al Qaeda in 2001(remember according to Western polls over 95% of the afghans population had not heard of Al Qaeda) ... Why can't Russia invade Ukraine because of over 10% (according to some stats) of the population being Neo Nazi terrorist???

This guy leaves out the main fact of Russian antagonism ... The expansion of NATO to Ukraine as a redline for Russia ... All he says is Nazi Nazi Nazi ..

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500180474232291330

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500160721388253189

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## Madni Bappa

Mandalorian_CA said:


> Russia has won, its over. West dumped Ukraine already now unless India sends its special forces Ukraine cannot win.


Indian Special Forces Just Arrived

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500181398900125697

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500053901613150208


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## NotSure

Escape from Tarkov. Sorry, trip to Kharkov!

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## Hack-Hook

Oublious said:


> Russian modern fighters shot down because of out dated Ukrain airdefence lol. They are trying to avoid to fly low, but if you fly low you will be hunt down with MANPADS. What this means Russian weapon capabilities sucks, if you are not capable with SEAD or DEAD missions you should not go to war  .
> 
> Russian troll army on PDF experienced another faillure...


they don't fly low to escape useless Ukraine air defense , they fly low because of the use of unguided weaponry

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## Madni Bappa

notorious_eagle said:


> The amount of equipment that was abandoned on the road because they had not done the necessary maintenance is just making my head explode.


Problem is compounded by the muddy season this time of year. With snow, sleet, rain fall. And then all of it melting. 

One of the problems Germans encountered other than deciding between relieving themselves or freezing to death in WW2.

It's difficult to drive a normal car on mid or gravel. It's an impossible nightmare to drive heavy vehicles in such conditions. Especially wheeled. Tracked are not exempt though.


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## Mujahid Memon

Clutch said:


> If America can invade Afghanistan because of a 0.01% of the population was Al Qaeda in 2001(remember according to Western polls over 95% of the afghans population had not heard of Al Qaeda) ... Why can't Russia invade Ukraine because of over 10% (according to some stats) of the population being Neo Nazi terrorist???
> 
> This guy leaves out the main fact of Russian antagonism ... The expansion of NATO to Ukraine as a redline for Russia ... All he says is Nazi Nazi Nazi ..


You should check Johny Haris videos. He has also covered and somewhat criticized American and French imperialism too.


----------



## Clutch

Mujahid Memon said:


> somewhat criticized American and French imperialism too.



Somewhat... Isn't good enough.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500187833688104969


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500016402056749058

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## NA71

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500188025128734725

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## K_Bin_W

99% one-sided news from the west or its cronies... FLUSH.....

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## Mujahid Memon

Clutch said:


> Somewhat... Isn't good enough.


Its still more than nothing considering he is also sitting in a Western country and can possibly end up in a Snowden or Julian Assange type situation. How many Russians criticized Putin's madness?


----------



## gambit

Hack-Hook said:


> they signed the same document , *they made the same promises*, they are as guilty as Russia that today neo-Nazis don't have nukes . and it seems you are sad because neo-Nazis don't have nukes and blame Russia for that.


That is true. Since so many people are too lazy to find the doc after all this time, here it is...



http://www.pircenter.org/media/content/files/12/13943175580.pdf



Memorandum on Security Assurances in connection with Ukraine’s accession to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons​​Budapest, 5 December 1994​​The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland,​​Welcoming the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons as a non-nuclear-weapon State,​​Taking into account the commitment of Ukraine to eliminate all nuclear weapons from its territory within a specified period of time,​​Noting the changes in the world-wide security situation, including the end of the Cold War, which have brought about conditions for deep reductions in nuclear forces.​​Confirm the following:​​1. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, *to respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.*​​2. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and *that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.*​​3. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, *to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.*​​4. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action *to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a nonnuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used.*​​5. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm, in the case of the Ukraine, their commitment not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclear-weapon State Party 2 to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a state in association or alliance with a nuclear weapon state.​​6. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland will consult in the event a situation arises which raises a question concerning these commitments.​​This Memorandum will become applicable upon signature.​​Signed in four copies having equal validity in the English, Russian and Ukrainian languages​​Although this is not a legal document, it is still significant at the moral level, in that three nuclear weapons states, the US, the UK, and Russia, convinced Ukraine to give up 1700 nuclear warheads in various deployment forms in exchange for essentially nothing.

The US, UK, and Russia promised to:

Respect Ukraine sovereignty and independence
Not to attack Ukraine (except in self defense)
Not to use economic coercion against Ukraine
Of all the countries, *COULD* the US-UK do items 2 and 3, especially 2? Of course they could. But *WOULD* they? Not likely. So the real problem country is Russia. And here we are today.

Now, in trying feebly to defend Russia, people are shaming the US-UK for not defending Ukraine. But which broken promise is worse: not to attack or failure to defend? And even if the US-UK militarily defend Ukraine, these people would come up with some other creative reasons why Russia is fully justified any way.

But we are militarily defending Ukraine by arming Ukraine, and defending Ukraine in ways Poutine never expected. He never expected:

the level of global public outrage,
the social ostracization of Russia,
the economic isolation of Russia,
the rebuild of NATO,
the internal dissent in Russia about the war,
the reinforcement of suspicions towards Russia as a responsible power.
And that is not all. The only ally that Russia have is China and Xi is slowly walking away. Eventually, it will become clear that China is holding Russia off except for some insignificant trade deals and mealy mouth diplo-speak.

Each nuclear warhead is one security assurance. Ukraine gave up 1700 security assurances based on Russia's non-legal promise to respect Ukraine independence and sovereignty. This doc is being re-released to the global public. No amount of shaming the US-UK will work in easing the list of punishments Russia is receiving. Calling Ukraine a 'Nazi state' or other forms of victim blaming will not work.

Is Iran coming to Russia's assistance in any way other than internet chatter? Are any Iranian enlisting in the Russian military? Is any Chinese or any citizen from the pathetic short list of countries that defend Russia enlisting in the Russian military? Why not shame those countries? Why are they not signing trade treaties with Russia with promises to buy Russian goods for as long as Russia continue to occupy Ukraine?

The answer to all those questions is that despite the public stance about 'supporting' Russia, the leaders of those countries know that it is over for Poutine. So wank off for every Russian hit to Ukraine for now. That is all your countries are willing to do.

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## Madni Bappa

Oublious said:


> what did they gaing of this?
> 
> 
> the only one who won is china, they will charge Russian for using ther bank account in china. And buy cheap oil and gas from Russia, other hand Pakistan will pay the double price for gas and oil  .


If West sanctions us too, thinking we're with Russia. Then we should buy oil and gas from Iran


----------



## Clutch




----------



## coffee_cup

gambit said:


> That is true. Since so many people are too lazy to find the doc after all this time, here it is...
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.pircenter.org/media/content/files/12/13943175580.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> Memorandum on Security Assurances in connection with Ukraine’s accession to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons​​Budapest, 5 December 1994​​The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland,​​Welcoming the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons as a non-nuclear-weapon State,​​Taking into account the commitment of Ukraine to eliminate all nuclear weapons from its territory within a specified period of time,​​Noting the changes in the world-wide security situation, including the end of the Cold War, which have brought about conditions for deep reductions in nuclear forces.​​Confirm the following:​​1. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, *to respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.*​​2. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and *that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.*​​3. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, *to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.*​​4. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action *to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a nonnuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used.*​​5. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm, in the case of the Ukraine, their commitment not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclear-weapon State Party 2 to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a state in association or alliance with a nuclear weapon state.​​6. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland will consult in the event a situation arises which raises a question concerning these commitments.​​This Memorandum will become applicable upon signature.​​Signed in four copies having equal validity in the English, Russian and Ukrainian languages​​Although this is not a legal document, it is still significant at the moral level, in that three nuclear weapons states, the US, the UK, and Russia, convinced Ukraine to give up 1700 nuclear warheads in various deployment forms in exchange for essentially nothing.
> 
> The US, UK, and Russia promised to:
> 
> Respect Ukraine sovereignty and independence
> Not to attack Ukraine (except in self defense)
> Not to use economic coercion against Ukraine
> Of all the countries, *COULD* the US-UK do items 2 and 3, especially 2? Of course they could. But *WOULD* they? Not likely. So the real problem country is Russia. And here we are today.
> 
> Now, in trying feebly to defend Russia, people are shaming the US-UK for not defending Ukraine. But which broken promise is worse: not to attack or failure to defend? And even if the US-UK militarily defend Ukraine, these people would come up with some other creative reasons why Russia is fully justified any way.
> 
> But we are militarily defending Ukraine by arming Ukraine, and defending Ukraine in ways Poutine never expected. He never expected:
> 
> the level of global public outrage,
> the social ostracization of Russia,
> the economic isolation of Russia,
> the rebuild of NATO,
> the internal dissent in Russia about the war,
> the reinforcement of suspicions towards Russia as a responsible power.
> And that is not all. The only ally that Russia have is China and Xi is slowly walking away. Eventually, it will become clear that China is holding Russia off except for some insignificant trade deals and mealy mouth diplo-speak.
> 
> Each nuclear warhead is one security assurance. Ukraine gave up 1700 security assurances based on Russia's non-legal promise to respect Ukraine independence and sovereignty. This doc is being re-released to the global public. No amount of shaming the US-UK will work in easing the list of punishments Russia is receiving. Calling Ukraine a 'Nazi state' or other forms of victim blaming will not work.
> 
> Is Iran coming to Russia's assistance in any way other than internet chatter? Are any Iranian enlisting in the Russian military? Is any Chinese or any citizen from the pathetic short list of countries that defend Russia enlisting in the Russian military? Why not shame those countries? Why are they not signing trade treaties with Russia with promises to buy Russian goods for as long as Russia continue to occupy Ukraine?
> 
> The answer to all those questions is that despite the public stance about 'supporting' Russia, the leaders of those countries know that it is over for Poutine. So wank off for every Russian hit to Ukraine for now. That is all your countries are willing to do.



Where is the *WRITTEN *promise in it?


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500176098591711238

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Clutch

Mujahid Memon said:


> Its still more than nothing considering he is also sitting in a Western country and can possibly end up in a Snowden or Julian Assange type situation. How many Russians criticized Putin's madness?



Imbalances just highlight hypocrisy.... Crumbs for the less-human Dalits...


----------



## thetutle

reflecthofgeismar said:


> I mean, Europe is VERY diverse, we don't need to import completely foreign-cultures etc. I don't say they are bad, they are just too different.
> Otherwise when you propagate "diversity", "freedom" etc. you must take them with all their life-style.



I don't care, or maybe I should not care who goes to Europe, It's not my job to make these rules on immigration. I live in Australia and you should see the diversity here. When I was young it used to be redneck wonderland in australia, you would not believe the racism of white people here. And its not even our country, the europeans stole it. Now its very tolerant, but even now, people self segregate. knowingly or unknowingly. I have not seen an aboriginal person or a black African person for maybe 2 years. we just dont go to the same places. have different interests. And Europe will become like that too. Self segregation. 



reflecthofgeismar said:


> See, you are more racist to Armenians than Steiner.
> But I guess Steiner had only good moments with THESE Armenians.



Actually all the Armenians I have met have been really nice people, its just that their politics is so anti Turkish, and I support turkey for historical reasons. And the way they look does not really appeal to me. Although I went out with a half Armenian half English girl who was American. 



reflecthofgeismar said:


> I really don't understand how people can think that all this "nazi" and "NATO" bs should be THE reason of that war.



Yeah I think some people here have suffered bad experiences with neo nazis, or know of people that have suffered, and they think that this is a real force in Ukraine due to the Russian propaganda. I can assure them its not. 

Ukraine has nazis, neo nazis, Jews, zionists, liberals, communists, and I am quite sure they will all fight together to protect their country and freedom from the Russians. they are all on the same side when it comes to their country. They all want freedom to to be what they are. And Russians are the same way. of course there are racists Russia. 

And yes some Ukranians don't want muslims who black, brown or white coming to their country and taking their woman or whatever, just as there are Pakistanis who would object to you a white christian coming to some village and taking a woman with you. Thats just human nature. It should not be a reason to support Russia in such imperialistic endeavours.

And we have seen lately Russia sending in their own troops to get massacred with helmets made in 1965 and no body armour, and these soldiers dont look very ethnically Russian to me, and at the same time we have Russian pilots who all look tall and very white with blond hair. Maybe Russia should give some Chechens access to some modern aircraft and powerful bombs and see how that goes. Will those bombs end up in Ukraine or in the Kremlin. hard to say.

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## khansaheeb

SuperStar20 said:


> My stock portfolio is in deep shit due to this war. What you guys think, how will this war span out. Any expert opinion please.
> How long it will last and how will it end.


It really depends on the will of the resistance and how much of a fight they put up. Russia will achieve all its major objectives but a strong guerilla war will sting the Russians and the Russian public opinion may undermine the gains. The US arms industry is hungry for money so this war and more will be fueled further and other targets will be created. More war means more money and it is a cycle we have seen the US arms industry spiral up upon. US does not have the capacity to fight in Europe and the Far East no matter how much they boast as this will make Israel extremely vulnerable to a conventional defeat.

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## LeGenD

Madni Bappa said:


> Problem is compounded by the muddy season this time of year. With snow, sleet, rain fall. And then all of it melting.
> 
> One of the problems Germans encountered other than deciding between relieving themselves or freezing to death in WW2.
> 
> It's difficult to drive a normal car on mid or gravel. It's an impossible nightmare to drive heavy vehicles in such conditions. Especially wheeled. Tracked are not exempt though.


Ukrainian infrastructure was much better in current times with a network of a large number of paved roads and bridges connecting different locations.






2.3 Ukraine Road Network - Logistics Capacity Assessment - Digital Logistics Capacity Assessments







dlca.logcluster.org





Ukrainians blew up bridges and removed numerous road signs to confuse Russian forces as they continued to advance in different directions. Shelling activities ruined some of the roads as well.

Soviet infrastructure was very poor back in the 1940s. German logistics were composed of lorries and horse-drawn wagons in large part and Soviet dirt roads would become impassable for them after prolonged rains. German engineers really struggled to improve logistics situation across USSR.


----------



## Madni Bappa

thetutle said:


> At 20 seconds. Machine gun 10/10, scope 10/10, moustache 10/10.


You missed the beer bottles


----------



## TNT

gambit said:


> Consider the US military is the most preeminent in the world, looks like our 'IQ dumbs' are smarter than the rest. You better petition the Pakistani Air Force to stop training with US because the USAF is filled with 'IQ dumbs' like myself


Well considering the US military performance in Afghanistan, it seems obvious.


gambit said:


> Then why not attack Turkey? Or any other NATO member near to Russia? Did you even researched on which NATO member hosts nuclear weapons in their countries.


Seriously i have to spoon feed u common sense? Turkey is an old NATO member and does not sit next door to moscow like Ukraine. Why the US had problems with missiles in ciba and not in other places? Try harder.


gambit said:


> Then you better find a five yr old because you are not doing a good job.


I guess its evident, i dont need to, and no one can win an argument froma kid or someone dumb.


----------



## EvoluXon

This thread is full of propaganda lol...
Russian jet down. 
Russian armored vehicle set on fire
Russain Abandon tanks. 
Russian commander killed.


Whre the hell are ukranians in this war lol



Lots of lies ... It feels russian are playing winter olympics there and not waging war and suffering losses only ... We all know West is master deception and lies.

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## LeGenD

EvoluXon said:


> This thread if full of propaganda lol...
> Russian jet down.
> Russian armored vehicle set on fire
> Russain Abandon tanks.
> Russian commander killed.
> 
> 
> Whre the hell are ukranians in this war lol
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of lies ... It feels russian are playing winter olympics there and not waging war and suffering losses only ... Ukranians are new master of deception and lies



Let me help you:






Repository of journalistic sources and how to use them with Russia - Ukraine War in focus and Fact-checking considerations


Dear members, Some members complain about the issue of reporting bias (and propaganda) in journalistic contents. These complaints were noticed in the following thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/ This thread is created to address the...



defence.pk


----------



## doorstar

Madni Bappa said:


> If West sanctions us too, thinking we're with Russia. Then we should buy oil and gas from Iran


from Iran? 
for them it is now Russia who is the 'great Satan' not NATO. don't believe it? ask the former President Ahmadinejad.

they will sell it it NATO before Pakistan.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500192445430181897

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500192200361222147


----------



## LeGenD

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500181398900125697


Misreporting.

_The Russian defence ministry said its units had opened humanitarian corridors near Mariupol and Volnovakha, a much smaller city 40 m miles (65km) to the north. But the Mariupol city council said Russia was not observing the ceasefire and asked residents to return to shelters and await further information on evacuation._









Russia’s war in Ukraine: complete guide in maps, video and pictures


Where is fighting happening and how did we get here?




www.theguardian.com















This is why I insist to not trust tweets blindly. Try to double-check information for more clarity about the situation of any location.

This is why I caution against overreliance on tweets to understand what is happening. Some are very clear about what is happening on the ground but others are mere propaganda.

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## thetutle

waz said:


> No brother i'm not saying what they're doing is 'odd' rather they are at odds i.e. meaning variance of conflict. I'm wondering how that will bode with Serbian citizens accusing their government of treachery.



Oh, I see. The Serbian government is democratically elected. And it reflects the will of the people. The will of the Serbian people is for Serbia to be a great power and avenge all historical injustices & destroy: 

Turkey, Germany, America, The Vatican, Albania, Bosnia, Croatia. (in that order). 

And at every election the Serbian government promises to do all this. But, the government also has to feed its people and provide jobs, export goods to Germany, Bosnia, Croatia, Turkey. So these desires at some point clash with reality and its the government's job to deal with reality and the citizens job to live in fantasy. A bit like the Armenians. 

So to serbs every government is treacherous and a sellout. But they know the opposition is the same, because, well, they need to deal with reality. So its just some letting off steam. Protesting is a free form of entertainment and good way to lose some calories and get some exercise.

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## gambit

TNT said:


> Well considering the US military performance in Afghanistan, it seems obvious.


Still a lot better than your Pakistan.



TNT said:


> Seriously i have to spoon feed u common sense? Turkey is an old NATO member and does not sit next door to moscow like Ukraine. Why the US had problems with missiles in ciba and not in other places? Try harder.


Was geolocation specified in your criticism? You made a blanket assertion that the mere option of NATO nukes in Ukraine justified Russia invasion. Yeah...Am not even trying.


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500168326227574786


----------



## gambit

coffee_cup said:


> Where is the *WRITTEN *promise in it?


I gave link and even copied/pasted the entire doc. And you still expect handholding.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500190267726606347


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500165635321516035

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500197186927218688

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## LeGenD

The Russian Air Force Just Had A Terrible Day Over Ukraine


Russia looks to have lost multiple combat jets, helicopters, and a drone in just the past day or so.




www.thedrive.com





Definite list of Russian Air Force losses over #Ukraine in the past 26 hours:

- 1x Su-30SM multirole aircraft (pictured)
- 2 Su-34 strike aircraft
- 2 Su-25 close air support aircraft
- 2 Mi-24/35 attack helicopters
- 2 Mi-8 transport helicopter
- 1 Orlan-10 UAV pic.twitter.com/I2JIj19BUD

— Oryx (@oryxspioenkop) March 5, 2022

@RescueRanger

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500141642472312837

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## khansaheeb

Hack-Hook said:


> Russia was weak , but Ukraine was also weak





pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500064533020303364


Ugly head of Euronazis rising up. If Serbia is to be allowed into the EU in 2025 they need a little more subduing with NATO bombing.

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## Kraetoz

gambit said:


> Still a lot better than your Pakistan.
> 
> 
> Was geolocation specified in your criticism? You made a blanket assertion that the mere option of NATO nukes in Ukraine justified Russia invasion. Yeah...Am not even trying.



Well US made a blanket assertion that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction and justified the invasion.

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## Trango Towers

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500173979893608450^ I think we all know that it's not "airlines" what he is actually worried about here.


Now watch an airline take a hit


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500192715652411398

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500198686873337861

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## khansaheeb

Titanium100 said:


> Is this true and if so I am sign myself up if I am getting paid that much to take on Russia
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500070935709327363


Ukraine is bankrupt it will have to be an IOU chitty and not cash. Unless the money is coming through the US agencies. If that is the case you can expect a lot of Indians and Pakistanis to join the fracas.


----------



## Titanium100

Trango Towers said:


> Now watch an airline take a hit



This is Typical Russian tactics. They will down few airlines and then say ''LOOK DIDN'T I tell you guys and will lament the warning in fake out-cries to rob it in the face of the US or EU'' but in truth they will be the ones who downed the airlines... Russians gon' Russians..

Besides they are predictable


----------



## OldTwilight

Hack-Hook said:


> they don't fly low to escape useless Ukraine air defense , they fly low because of the use of unguided weaponry



well , look like we did give too much credit to Russian air force in Syria ...


----------



## FuturePAF

Having just look at the picture of the destroyed AN-225c a though occurred to me.

If the Russian succeed in their war, or even just part of it, considering they stated they wanted to “demilitarized Ukraine”, will they destroy or transfer back to Russia the entire military industrial complex of Ukraine? The way they did to Germany after WW2. 

Is this war the end of the Ukrainian military industry?

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## gambit

Kraetoz said:


> Well US made a blanket assertion that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction and justified the invasion.


But this invasion is not about nuclear weapons and Russia is not making the 'potential' argument. As far as the Iraq issue, there are more evident of a nuclear weapons program, which the IAEA put under the category of nuclear weapons, than Ukraine is a neo-Nazi state.

So here is the list of justifications that Poutine is using:

NATO membership
Neo-Nazi
Ethnic Russian oppression
Ukraine is making fun of Russia
Ukrainians are making fun of Poutine
Zelensky is ugly
Ukrainians chicks are hotter than Russian chicks
Chicken Kyiv is better than borscht
Ukrainian vodka is better than Russian vodka
Ukrainian weather is better than Russian weather
Am pretty sure the top three are the main reasons, and Poutine considered the rest.


----------



## Madni Bappa

LeGenD said:


> Ukrainian infrastructure was much better in current times with a network of a large number of paved roads and bridges connecting different locations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2.3 Ukraine Road Network - Logistics Capacity Assessment - Digital Logistics Capacity Assessments
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dlca.logcluster.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainians blew up bridges and removed numerous road signs to confuse Russian forces as they continued to advance in different directions. Shelling activities ruined some of the roads as well.
> 
> Soviet infrastructure was very poor back in the 1940s. German logistics were composed of lorries and horse-drawn wagons in large part and Soviet dirt roads would become impassable for them after prolonged rains. German engineers really struggled to improve logistics situation across USSR.


For an invasion you really want to stay off main roads that's my point. 

Since it's muddy season they can't take alternate not so exposed routes.


----------



## sammuel

The SC said:


> World food prices reached their highest point in the 61-year history of the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization's Food Price Index, pushed higher by supply chain issues and the Ukraine crisis.
> 
> The monthly index, released Friday by the organization, best known as FAO, averaged 140.7 points in February. That is 3.9 percent higher than in January, 24.1 percent higher than in February 2021, and 2 percent above its previous all-time high set in February 2011.
> 
> https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202203/1253982.shtml



indeed this war is bad for every one.

~

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## RescueRanger

LeGenD said:


> The Russian Air Force Just Had A Terrible Day Over Ukraine
> 
> 
> Russia looks to have lost multiple combat jets, helicopters, and a drone in just the past day or so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Definite list of Russian Air Force losses over #Ukraine in the past 26 hours:
> 
> - 1x Su-30SM multirole aircraft (pictured)
> - 2 Su-34 strike aircraft
> - 2 Su-25 close air support aircraft
> - 2 Mi-24/35 attack helicopters
> - 2 Mi-8 transport helicopter
> - 1 Orlan-10 UAV pic.twitter.com/I2JIj19BUD
> 
> — Oryx (@oryxspioenkop) March 5, 2022
> 
> @RescueRanger


Fantastic m, yes I’ve already bookmarked his tweets his list is reliable as he documents losses on both sides.

Russians have taken a serious trashing 😂


EDIT: UPDATE -
⚡️
Massive explosion in Kamratorsk - AP

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## V. Makarov



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## Titanium100

RescueRanger said:


> EDIT: UPDATE -
> ⚡️
> Massive explosion in Kamratorsk - AP



Kamratorsk is the concentration of the Ukrainian armed forces

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## RescueRanger

Titanium100 said:


> Kamratorsk is the concentration of the Ukrainian armed forces


Ukrainians claiming they are intercepted a Russian cruise missile.


----------



## Patriot forever

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500199886532321282

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## Ali_Baba

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500190267726606347


I counted about 30 vehicles in that convoy that were taken out/destroy - that was a big hit on the Russians.

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## thetutle

letsrock said:


> Interesting how you normalized nazi behaviour of second world war. Nazis thought of slavs as biologically inferior - in other words you cant be them even if you tried.
> 
> Soviets saved you.



Look this is not the place for such discussions, but you have to understand Germanic tribes and slavic tribes have lived next to one another and intermixed for 1500 to 2000 years. 

I have germans in my family and many germans have slavs in their family. Russian Czars have been all German for 100's of years. The last Russian Czar was like 90% German. 

Germans have excelled in so many areas, and if you look at all the great architecture of Czech or Poland, Slovenia, its all germans responsible for it. Al the good cars. yep that's all germans. 

The list of German achievements are so long it not funny. And historically, the germans have sometimes dominated the slavs and other times the slavs dominated the germans. 

Yes if nazis had won slavs would have worked in German factories. And germans would have been the rich overlords. hmmmm exactly how it is right now. And they would have assimilated most of the slavs over time into germans. That happening now anyway. 

But different slavs were treated differently by the germans depending on the danger they posed to the German state. Those slavs that took germans lands or that did bad things to germans in the past were treated harshly, those slavs that were close to the germans and did not endanger Germany were treated very well.

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## Madni Bappa

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500064533020303364







2:33 onwards

Chickens coming home to roost.

Bhai mujhe lagta poori non muslim dunya aur poora Europe pagal ho gae hain. Khwarij ko bhi apne saath mila liya hai. Pata nai kab 80 jhande le kar charh doren ge ye mongolion ki tarha. Allah maaf kare bai.

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## sur

RescueRanger said:


> Ukrainians claiming they are intercepted a Russian cruise missile.



Some say may be it was an above the surface detonation?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500201234002690049

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## Hassan Al-Somal

https://www.rt.com/news/551291-us-military-aid-ukraine/

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## Madni Bappa

sur said:


> Some say may be it was an above the surface detonation?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500201234002690049


The cruise missile bounced off of Ghost of Kiev and killed 25000 Russian soldaten

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500212250501603328

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## JonAsad

Russia is loosing so much equipment, manpower, aircrafts etc. At this rate Ukrainian army should be at the gates of Moscow. wait what !!!!

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## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> If he is sad about neo-nazis not having nuke, we can probably solve that problem by giving them some. No need to blame Russia for that, just saying.


None of the savage West should have Nukes, this is a blight on humanity. They still have Neanderthal savagery within them which they unleash on themselves or others at any opportunity they can get.

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## HaMoTZeMaS

gambit said:


> That is true. Since so many people are too lazy to find the doc after all this time, here it is...
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.pircenter.org/media/content/files/12/13943175580.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> Memorandum on Security Assurances in connection with Ukraine’s accession to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons​​Budapest, 5 December 1994​​The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland,​​Welcoming the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons as a non-nuclear-weapon State,​​Taking into account the commitment of Ukraine to eliminate all nuclear weapons from its territory within a specified period of time,​​Noting the changes in the world-wide security situation, including the end of the Cold War, which have brought about conditions for deep reductions in nuclear forces.​​Confirm the following:​​1. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, *to respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.*​​2. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and *that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.*​​3. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, *to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.*​​4. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action *to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a nonnuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used.*​​5. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm, in the case of the Ukraine, their commitment not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclear-weapon State Party 2 to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a state in association or alliance with a nuclear weapon state.​​6. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland will consult in the event a situation arises which raises a question concerning these commitments.​​This Memorandum will become applicable upon signature.​​Signed in four copies having equal validity in the English, Russian and Ukrainian languages​​Although this is not a legal document, it is still significant at the moral level, in that three nuclear weapons states, the US, the UK, and Russia, convinced Ukraine to give up 1700 nuclear warheads in various deployment forms in exchange for essentially nothing.
> 
> The US, UK, and Russia promised to:
> 
> Respect Ukraine sovereignty and independence
> Not to attack Ukraine (except in self defense)
> Not to use economic coercion against Ukraine
> Of all the countries, *COULD* the US-UK do items 2 and 3, especially 2? Of course they could. But *WOULD* they? Not likely. So the real problem country is Russia. And here we are today.
> 
> Now, in trying feebly to defend Russia, people are shaming the US-UK for not defending Ukraine. But which broken promise is worse: not to attack or failure to defend? And even if the US-UK militarily defend Ukraine, these people would come up with some other creative reasons why Russia is fully justified any way.
> 
> But we are militarily defending Ukraine by arming Ukraine, and defending Ukraine in ways Poutine never expected. He never expected:
> 
> the level of global public outrage,
> the social ostracization of Russia,
> the economic isolation of Russia,
> the rebuild of NATO,
> the internal dissent in Russia about the war,
> the reinforcement of suspicions towards Russia as a responsible power.
> And that is not all. The only ally that Russia have is China and Xi is slowly walking away. Eventually, it will become clear that China is holding Russia off except for some insignificant trade deals and mealy mouth diplo-speak.
> 
> Each nuclear warhead is one security assurance. Ukraine gave up 1700 security assurances based on Russia's non-legal promise to respect Ukraine independence and sovereignty. This doc is being re-released to the global public. No amount of shaming the US-UK will work in easing the list of punishments Russia is receiving. Calling Ukraine a 'Nazi state' or other forms of victim blaming will not work.
> 
> Is Iran coming to Russia's assistance in any way other than internet chatter? Are any Iranian enlisting in the Russian military? Is any Chinese or any citizen from the pathetic short list of countries that defend Russia enlisting in the Russian military? Why not shame those countries? Why are they not signing trade treaties with Russia with promises to buy Russian goods for as long as Russia continue to occupy Ukraine?
> 
> The answer to all those questions is that despite the public stance about 'supporting' Russia, the leaders of those countries know that it is over for Poutine. So wank off for every Russian hit to Ukraine for now. That is all your countries are willing to do.


and then... Catholics try to take the Orthodox identity > Church

When it comes to religion, Guess Who was Vladimir (not the present Vladimir Putin)

Calling for Nato was not the militarily, It was Religiously that is obviously unacceptable by any of them


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## Patriot forever

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500207379199459328
That's alot of dollars..


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## RescueRanger

sur said:


> Some say may be it was an above the surface detonation?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500201234002690049


That was big.



Patriot forever said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500207379199459328
> That's alot of dollars..


Salam we have been advised in this thread that this video is From 2014.

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## Wood



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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500215738044346371

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500213804872970248


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## Patriot forever

5th of March... Encirclement continues..

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## Iron Shrappenel

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500212250501603328


Beard game stronk man.... Want to know his beard management routine...


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## Patriot forever

RescueRanger said:


> Salam we have been advised in this thread that this video is From 2014.



Does it not further prove why this war was inevitable. This is basically terror financing in collusion with installed Ukrainian governemnt. This is what was happening in Eastern Ukraine. 

One wonders where the financing of these organization like azoz and aidar etc comes from.

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## RescueRanger

Patriot forever said:


> Does it not further prove why this war was inevitable. This is basically terror financing in collusion with installed Ukrainian governemnt. This is what was happening in Eastern Ukraine.
> 
> One wonders where the financing of these organization like azoz and aidar etc comes from.


There is in doubt foreign funding for Azov exists.

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## Madni Bappa

Patriot forever said:


> That's alot of dollars..


Not good enough to help some poor Americans at home. Apparently.


----------



## GumNaam

LeGenD said:


> True, but NATO is far more capable in the aviation and EW regimes. Meaning? NATO can establish and enforce NO FLY ZONE over entire Ukraine if it wants to but it won't do this due to political factors - no obligation to shield Ukraine.
> 
> You should read following article:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia’s Involvement In Syria Proves That It's Far Behind The Western World
> 
> 
> Russia has made a lot of noise about the modern weapons it has used during combat in Syria and how effective these new weapons are. Fresh Su-34 attack jets scream through the skies, while the latest in small arms test their mettle. But the reality is most of what Russia has used is not as shiny...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jalopnik.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It explains a lot about Russian military assets (and performance) in Syria.
> 
> There are some Russian technological advances to account for in the present but not much difference on a broader level.
> 
> Russian also have financial constraints.


it is true that there is a black mark on Russian tech in the sense that their s400s could not prevent any air raids on syria nor are Russian origin planes have been known achieve air superiority in any of the conflicts of the past. We all know the performance the "raptor of the east" gave on Feb 27th. the western militaries are ahead in ew but not by much since Russia tends to keep its true teeth to itself when it comes to military technology so at least I can't say for sure how far ahead the west actually is. Let's see...

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## letsrock

thetutle said:


> Look this is not the place for such discussions, but you have to understand Germanic tribes and slavic tribes have lived next to one another and intermixed for 1500 to 2000 years.
> 
> I have germans in my family and many germans have slavs in their family. Russian Czars have been all German for 100's of years. The last Russian Czar was like 90% German.
> 
> Germans have excelled in so many areas, and if you look at all the great architecture of Czech or Poland, Slovenia, its all germans responsible for it. Al the good cars. yep that's all germans.
> 
> The list of German achievements are so long it not funny. And historically, the germans have sometimes dominated the slavs and other times the slavs dominated the germans.
> 
> Yes if nazis had won slavs would have worked in German factories. And germans would have been the rich overlords. hmmmm exactly how it is right now. And they would have assimilated most of the slavs over time into germans. That happening now anyway.
> 
> But different slavs were treated differently by the germans depending on the danger they posed to the German state. Those slavs that took germans lands or that did bad things to germans in the past were treated harshly, those slavs that were close to the germans and did not endanger Germany were treated very well.


Until Soviets defeated nazis - they definitely had very low opinion of slavs to the extent they were planning wholesale slavery and slaughter for lebensraum.

RIght now slavs are working in german factories because soviet collapsed (due to bad economic mismanagement) but definitely not like the way Nazi would have make them work. For that too you need to be thankful to soviets.

security and dignity comes first - money comes later. If you are now living in europe with this much confidence that your identity is not threatened then you owe that to soviet victory in anti-fascist war.


----------



## jamal18

Bombing of Ukraine....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500140611868971012

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500096225667919877

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## jamal18

A message from UFC on the Ukraine...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500145960990789636

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500237152181014529


----------



## FuturePAF

Wood said:


>


Just about to post this but you beat me to it.

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## FuturePAF

jamal18 said:


> A message from UFC on the Ukraine...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500145960990789636


This how we feel in America; I’ll defend me and mine if they come here, but don’t ask me to go fight in another war, and for what. I’ll sure this is the sentiment in most of the world as well.



Patriot forever said:


> 5th of March... Encirclement continues..
> 
> View attachment 821149
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 821150


Looks like the Russians are trying to take the western side of the river, so they can encircle and destroy or force the capitulation of the Ukrainians on the Eastern side of the country.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500239995927465985

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## Clutch

The logistics failure of the Russian military campaign. A learning lesson for militaries planning deep infiltration and occupation.

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500101908614238210

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500081463852736514
Translation: 

Cyprus has banned access of 5 Russian warships to its port through Ukraine - media

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## Clutch

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500066431978905600



In this world some people are more human than others.

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## Tamerlane

dBSPL said:


> The Russians killed incomparably more Muslims than any other imperial power(or imperial protected structures like Israel) and invaded more Muslim countries. But if you look at the general audience of the forum, Russians always lovable while other demonized. However, it is not the moral foundations that feed these feelings, but the conditions and interests of the countries. Russia is a 'distant threat' to many Muslim countries. The western bloc is an 'imminent threat' for some reasons.



Leaving aside Muslims for a moment, let's discuss the concept of right and wrong. We're told to speak the truth even in front of a tyrant, promote what is right and forbid what is wrong, do justice even if we hate someone.

Where is the justice in what is happening? Both Ukraine and Russia are victims of this. Russians were being killed non-stop for the last eight years. This guy, Zelensky, was baiting Russia on behalf of his foreign masters into attacking Ukraine. Now he's promoting as much death and destruction as he can. 

What is the West doing for Ukraine? Encouraging Zelensky to keep fighting. Sending weapons and mercenaries so that the war goes on no matter how many Ukrainians are killed.

Russia was practically begging the West to accept them, but they refused. Now they're demonizing Russians all over the world, seizing their property, firing them from jobs, trying to create unrest in Russia. Is this fair and just?

If for no other reason, just for the sake of justice I would support Russia in this fiasco.

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## Wergeland 2.0

letsrock said:


> Until Soviets defeated nazis - they definitely had very low opinion of slavs to the extent they were planning wholesale slavery and slaughter for lebensraum.
> 
> RIght now slavs are working in german factories because soviet collapsed (due to bad economic mismanagement) but definitely not like the way Nazi would have make them work. For that too you need to be thankful to soviets.
> 
> security and dignity comes first - money comes later. If you are now living in europe with this much confidence that your identity is not threatened then you owe that to soviet victory in anti-fascist war.



Not only that bro. It was Soviet Union who defeated colonialism. Thats a fact. Ask all Latin Americans and Africans. Even South Asia has a lot to thanks Soviet Union for when it comes to independence from colonialism.

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## Clutch

Patriot forever said:


> Does it not further prove why this war was inevitable. This is basically terror financing in collusion with installed Ukrainian governemnt. This is what was happening in Eastern Ukraine.
> 
> One wonders where the financing of these organization like azoz and aidar etc comes from.




Israel: the enemy of my enemy is my friend.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500241091228053510

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## Mandalorian_CA

Madni Bappa said:


> Indian Special Forces Just Arrived


/
Battle hardened ready for Gorilla war

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500238751011909644


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## Wood

FuturePAF said:


> Just about to post this but you beat me to it.


He made a 20 minute video to say that Russia does not have enough trucks for the invasion

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500207878271123467


Ali_Baba said:


> I counted about 30 vehicles in that convoy that were taken out/destroy - that was a big hit on the Russians.



The same convoy


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500246238083653635
Kharkiv front is a total carnage for the russian army

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## Trango Towers

Madni Bappa said:


> Indian Special Forces Just Arrived


What's worse is they are clapping that he is doing an amazing job

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500109331014033412


----------



## Abid123

When is the invasion of Kiev going to start?


----------



## Wood

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500207878271123467
> 
> 
> The same convoy
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500246238083653635
> Kharkiv front is a total carnage for the russian army


Strange to find crowd control gear there. Maybe it is for the occupation to come. Wish they could put some subs in these videos 🙂


----------



## RescueRanger

Wood said:


> Strange to find crowd control gear there. Maybe it is for the occupation to come. Wish they could put some subs in these videos 🙂


yeah the public order equipment got me thinking this was an advance column and not a relief one.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500239741706551307

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500197649307348994

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## Wood

Wish some media analysts can estimate how effective the Territorial defence forces have been in the defence. They claim 100k volunteers in the force. 



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500197649307348994


Putin has good control over his minion despots. But it seems like these fellows are not competent to keep their army officers in line


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500252521863987206


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500207878271123467
> 
> 
> The same convoy
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500246238083653635
> Kharkiv front is a total carnage for the russian army



None of those vehicles are burning; all I see is vehicles stranded in the snow. It also looks like an old video. Any more proof that supports this was a Russian convoy eliminated by Ukrainians in the current conflict?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Source: https://tass.com/defense/1417609?ut...=referral&utm_campaign=t.co&utm_referrer=t.co


RUSSIAN NEWS AGENCY

https://tass.com/society/1417413
ALL NEWS
MILITARY OPERATION IN UKRAINE
5 MAR, 13:24
Ukraine’s 2,119 military targets destroyed in special operation — Russian Defense Ministry​It was also stressed that Russian troops are not targeting Ukrainian cities

MOSCOW, March 5. /TASS/. Russia’s Armed Forces have destroyed a total of 2,119 targets of Ukraine’s military infrastructure during the special operation, Russian Defense Ministry Spokesman Igor Konashenkov said on Saturday.

"A total of 2,119 targets of Ukraine’s military infrastructure have been hit during the operation. Among them are 74 command posts and communication points of the Ukrainian Armed Forces; 108 air defense missile systems of S-300, Buk-M1 and Osa, as well as 68 radar stations," he said at a briefing.

Konashenkov added that 69 aircraft on the ground and 21 more in midair, 748 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 76 multiple rocket launchers, 274 pieces of field artillery and mortars, 532 pieces of special military vehicles and 59 drones were destroyed.
On February 24, Russian President Vladimir Putin said in a televised address that in response to a request by the heads of the Donbass republics he had made a decision to carry out a special military operation in order to protect people "who have been suffering from abuse and genocide by the Kiev regime for eight years." The Russian leader stressed that Moscow had no plans of occupying Ukrainian territories. The goal is demilitarization and denazification of that country.

When clarifying the unfolding developments, the Russian Defense Ministry reassured that Russian troops are not targeting Ukrainian cities, but are limited to surgically striking and incapacitating Ukrainian military infrastructure. There are no threats whatsoever to the civilian population.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500241392764919815

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## Domobran7

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> None of those vehicles are burning; all I see is vehicles stranded in the snow. It also looks like an old video. Any more proof that supports this was a Russian convoy eliminated by Ukrainians in the current conflict?


"Eliminated" does not necessarily mean "physically destroyed". Maybe troops simply abandoned it upon coming under attack. Also, not every car is a Pinto; small arms fire will not necessarily set a vehicle aflame.


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## mingle

JonAsad said:


> Russia is loosing so much equipment, manpower, aircrafts etc. At this rate Ukrainian army should be at the gates of Moscow. wait what !!!!


Alot of fake stuff is on SM

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> None of those vehicles are burning; all I see is vehicles stranded in the snow. It also looks like an old video. Any more proof that supports this was a Russian convoy eliminated by Ukrainians in the current conflict?



It's not an old video







We can recognize vehicles of the russian national guard. (Rosgvardiya)

BTW in another video posted from a different angle,we can see many bodies on the ground.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Source: https://tass.com/defense/1417609?ut...=referral&utm_campaign=t.co&utm_referrer=t.co
> 
> 
> RUSSIAN NEWS AGENCY
> 
> https://tass.com/society/1417413
> ALL NEWS
> MILITARY OPERATION IN UKRAINE
> 5 MAR, 13:24
> Ukraine’s 2,119 military targets destroyed in special operation — Russian Defense Ministry​It was also stressed that Russian troops are not targeting Ukrainian cities
> 
> MOSCOW, March 5. /TASS/. Russia’s Armed Forces have destroyed a total of 2,119 targets of Ukraine’s military infrastructure during the special operation, Russian Defense Ministry Spokesman Igor Konashenkov said on Saturday.
> 
> "A total of 2,119 targets of Ukraine’s military infrastructure have been hit during the operation. Among them are 74 command posts and communication points of the Ukrainian Armed Forces; 108 air defense missile systems of S-300, Buk-M1 and Osa, as well as 68 radar stations," he said at a briefing.
> 
> Konashenkov added that 69 aircraft on the ground and 21 more in midair, 748 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 76 multiple rocket launchers, 274 pieces of field artillery and mortars, 532 pieces of special military vehicles and 59 drones were destroyed.
> On February 24, Russian President Vladimir Putin said in a televised address that in response to a request by the heads of the Donbass republics he had made a decision to carry out a special military operation in order to protect people "who have been suffering from abuse and genocide by the Kiev regime for eight years." The Russian leader stressed that Moscow had no plans of occupying Ukrainian territories. The goal is demilitarization and denazification of that country.
> 
> When clarifying the unfolding developments, the Russian Defense Ministry reassured that Russian troops are not targeting Ukrainian cities, but are limited to surgically striking and incapacitating Ukrainian military infrastructure. There are no threats whatsoever to the civilian population.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500241392764919815



Do you have any proofs of the 2119 military targets destroyed ? Just doing like you.


----------



## kahu

Man, Indian media trailblazing and setting new standards for international media to cover Ukraine conflict

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## Vergennes

lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500104042181234696

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## PanzerKiel

notorious_eagle said:


> Hon @Joe Shearer @PanzerKiel
> 
> Have you Gentlemen been following this war? Zhukov would be rolling in his grave right now seeing how the Russians have executed their battle plans. I used to have the highest amount of respect for the Russian General Staff, not anymore. Rather then using out of the box thinking and maneuvers, they seem to be now just relying on brute force to get through.
> 
> The amount of equipment that was abandoned on the road because they had not done the necessary maintenance is just making my head explode.
> 
> Would love to hear what you Gents think


As far as I am concerned, the respect for Russian general staff is still there. 

Our conclusions here are mostly based on whatever is available v on western media. 

Equipment losses are in built in any war. Couple of tanks here, couple of aircraft there, c everyday, is always expected. 

We have hardly seen any pics of Ukrainian dead, or their destroyed equipment. They say they are winning this. And every then, they are panicking. 

Is not simple, it's not russia against Ukraine only. It's Russia against the whole NATO, look at the amount and quality of equipment and firepower being given to Ukrainians....

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## jhungary

"War can be fascinating to watch on TV, but up close and personal, that's another story"

Alec Baldwin, V/O, World in Conflict

Just got news from my Ukrainian friend who lived in Nova Kokhovka, she left Nova Kokhovka on the 24th Feb and I can only contact her 3 days ago...She was born in Transnistria (A Pro-Russian breakaway province in Moldova), her husband is Russian, she speak Russian and is Ethnic Russian. And this is what she have to say

I was struggle to post this because this is *MY ACTUAL FACEBOOK* feed, this is on my account...






English Translation

I left Nova Kakhovka on the first day of the war. On February 24, at 5 in the morning, we, like all Ukraine, woke up to the sound of bombs. I called my mom, who spent the night at the cottage, and asked if I had gone crazy. Does she hear the same thing. She heard and heard even harder. The earth trembled at the Energetik cottages, where the Russians have now set up their grads. We managed to fill up a full tank of gas, packed our things and decided to go with the kids. Drive out of the city, drive for the hydroelectric power plant, over the bridge. To anywhere but faster. Two hours later, when we approached Nikolaev, our New Kakhovka was already occupied by the Russian army. We spent the night in Nikolaev, where my dad's friends received us. People whom I never knew before, but who knew what situation I was in, who fled from the "liberators" from native Donetsk 8 years ago. Early in the morning headed to the Moldovan border. We knew the border was closed and no one was allowed in, but we decided to take a chance. We have relatives here in Transnistria, I was born here in 1988, and most of my life was lived by my mother. We've been missed. Us, and another woman with a child. I've been sleeping in silence for the third night, but I still have shivers from the noise of the garbage truck under the window. It's scary for me to imagine what mothers who remained in Ukraine have experienced and are going through now. #glorytoukraine #wewillwin #palyanytsia #russianshipfuckyou

Apologise for the profanity



khansaheeb said:


> None of the savage West should have Nukes, this is a blight on humanity. They still have Neanderthal savagery within them which they unleash on themselves or others at any opportunity they can get.


None of the country should have nuke. Period.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Also we have to remember that the technological capabilities of the US are unparralleled. and the capabilities they have to prevent a full Russian nuclear launch would be tremendous.
> 
> I read or heard somewhere that during the Cold War the Americans pinged every Russian nuclear sub simultaneously to show them that they were aware of their location. Thats quite a scary capability. If true, they had the ability to eliminate one arm of the Russian nuclear triad in one moment using conventional means. With micro drones and hacking capabilities, the nuclear exchange almost seems winnable by the west.
> 
> Not saying its worth trying, but it gives the world a chance.



There are something called "Full Accountability" or "Full Count" in short by the CIA during Cold War, which map every nuclear weapon Soviet Union had and where they are positioned and when can they fire at all time. If and when a NATO-Russia War happened, The Tactical Force in the US is to eliminate as many target listed on the Full Count in the first strike. Then either use nuclear weapon or conventional weapon to cripple Soviet Union C&C and dead of decision. 

That is how advance the US intelligence field even back in the 70s. Imagine the capability they have now...Trust me when I say this, this is peanuts compare to the reach US intel now. I used to work there, with DIA and NSA folks, I know first hand how advance it is now. You probably would not believe me if I have told you.

That is the reason why Biden basically called out Putin every move since Nov 2021 even when Russia themselves denied they were doing that,,,

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## Saho

I can’t keep up to date with this conflict at all.

Guess for now i’ll forget it until I hear “Kiev has fallen” or “Russia retreats Ukraine under agreement” headlines.


----------



## jhungary

Ich said:


> Ah, ok. Sounds strange to me. I refere to the german word "Dienst" or "Wehrdienst". As an example: The police officers are also on duty (Dienst) if they are in the police station or driving around with the police car ect. Same is my understanding for army. If you are in the barracks, you are on duty (Dienst), like the police sitting in the police station.


That's why I ask you what do you mean "On Duty"

In the US, on duty is on duty, you pick up a weapon and guard a post, or you are in a warzone and you are out in operation. Just because you are in Barrack that does not mean they are on duty. There are down time even when you are in your barrack in war.

What you are referring to is what we called "On Uncle Sam dime" which mean the under the time the government pay you, you are working for Uncle Sam (US Government) that usually, you do the job you are paid to do, if you are a mechanic, you fix car for the army, and if you are a cook, you go work in a kitchen. This is like a job when you clock in and clock out

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## FairAndUnbiased

Patriot forever said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500207379199459328


The deliberate flooding is not a sign of winning, it is a sign of desperation.

Chinese (ROC aka Taiwanese) forces did it in 1937 to slow down imperial Japan. Thousands died because of it.

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## mingle

Vergennes said:


> lmao
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500104042181234696


Another fake


----------



## fallschirmjager786

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500177643504910337
State of the art Russian reinforcements on their way to battle. Note invasion markings

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## mingle

PanzerKiel said:


> As far as I am concerned, the respect for Russian general staff is still there.
> 
> Our conclusions here are mostly based on whatever is available v on western media.
> 
> Equipment losses are in built in any war. Couple of tanks here, couple of aircraft there, c everyday, is always expected.
> 
> We have hardly seen any pics of Ukrainian dead, or their destroyed equipment. They say they are winning this. And every then, they are panicking.
> 
> Is not simple, it's not russia against Ukraine only. It's Russia against the whole NATO, look at the amount and quality of equipment and firepower being given to Ukrainians....


Russia is following WW2 tactics encirclement and then destroy. Most of video and pics actually supply columns ppl believe war is like playstation actually it's not 



fallschirmjager786 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500177643504910337
> State of the art Russian reinforcements on their way to battle. Note invasion markings


Again it's all fake


----------



## Wergeland 2.0

jhungary said:


> I used to work there, with DIA and NSA folks,



Is there a place on earth where you havent been or worked?

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> I am just thinking. Logic would say Russia wins the war and takes the whole country. But what I am seeing is that Russia sends tanks they get destroyed. They send helicopters they get destroyed. Russia cant send 5,000 tanks on one target, they down seem to have the logistics for it. If they keep sending small forces and those faces keep getting hit hard, they will eventually runout of tanks or will just conclude its not with it.
> 
> Once they establish complete air supremacy, it will be another matter. But as you said earlier, even complete air supremacy will not allow CAS to operate freely. Is that right thinking?


That is because of one single major problem the Russia is suffering - Logistic.

As I said in my review on Day 7 (which is probably lost in the torrent of post here) The Russia fail spectacularly in term of Logistic support. It's quite evidence that when they try to jam a convoy 40 miles long with literally everything they need for war in it in a double wide column. No other nation on earth will do this. Because you need different things on different time to sustain a war effort, not everything have the same shelve life, you will need ammo, food, gas and water in priority, everything else can be brought in by truck.

That is what happened in the north, troops are going no where and were even started to get counter attacked by the Ukrainian, bear in mind Ukrainian do not have the capability to launch a country wide counter offensive as most of their troop are static and pinned by the attack and siege from Russia. Which mean what they can do is to hamper the advance effort, which is exactly what they did.

The progress from the South is better, but that is only because they have shorter resupply route and they have more ability to support their effort (Sea and Land) but as the southern arm run north, unless Russia change their tactics, they will run into the same problem as supply lines stretched.

That is the reason why they cannot send in a massive strike to overwhelm Ukrainian defence. Because if they move in large dove, then the mass of them will be stuck because they would not have enough supply to do it, that's why they went in piecemeal, because that is what their supply line can support.

As for Air Superiority, Russia would always going to be on upper hand, but analyst predict a complete air superiority on the Russian side (as in if anything flying Ukrainian flag will get shot down) that did not happen. Which mean Russian CAS is hampered by MANPAD and SAM or even Ukrainian fighter, not only that, if the Russian cannot provide global air superiority, they will not be able to contest local air superiority, which mean the role could be reverse, Ukraine could provide CAS to their own troop either with fighter or drone and target the Russian.



Wergeland 2.0 said:


> Is there a place on earth where you havent been or worked?


I worked in Military Intelligence. There are something called "Joint Intelligence Service"

Also, I did not say I worked "*FOR*" or worked "*AT*" DIA and NSA, I said I work "*WITH*" these people, as in inside the same room, side by side. A Standard TOC would have representation on every alphabet agency, CIA, FBI, NSA, DIA and so on.

Although I almost work "FOR" CIA, I was extended an invitation to join the farm (CIA training), I had my TC/SCI clearence (Still do actually) but was wounded and discharged before I get to the farm.

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## Vergennes

mingle said:


> Another fake



It's easy to say "fake" when you don't provide a source to counter this

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## fallschirmjager786

The Russian Air Force Just Had A Terrible Day Over Ukraine


Russia looks to have lost multiple combat jets, helicopters, and a drone in just the past day or so.




www.thedrive.com





Invasion plan definitely working. These are confirmed losses. Add up the $$$.


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## tower9

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500239741706551307
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500197649307348994


There’s nothing in this for Belarus. It’s like an employee getting told by his boss to beat up his boss’s enemy while they are earning minimum wage.

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## fallschirmjager786

mingle said:


> Russia is following WW2 tactics encirclement and then destroy. Most of video and pics actually supply columns ppl believe war is like playstation actually it's not
> 
> 
> Again it's all fake




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500192529215631365
More Elite Russian Vehicles on the way to the front. They'll be joining up with Russian Elite forces waiting just outside Ukraine while the cannon fodder/conscripts go in and mop up the Ukrainians.

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## PK784

Sweet deal for Poland.

"FT reports that the US is working with the Polish government to supply MiG-29s to Ukraine in exchange for US F-16s"


"The deal would involve Ukraine receiving Russian-made warplanes from Poland, which would then be given American F-16s by the US to refill its stocks. It comes amid fears Russia will increase air strikes given the slow progress of parts of its ground campaign."

The White House said it was negotiating with Poland and consulting other Nato allies but that there were “a number of challenging practical questions, including how the planes could actually be transferred from Poland to Ukraine”.

Zelensky had expressed appreciation for the stingers, but said they were insufficient because they were not able to fly high enough to take out some Russian aircraft.

Zelensky opened the call with US lawmakers with a 20-minute plea for more American support. At one point during his emotional presentation, he paused to ask one of the American lawmakers to mute themselves. “Senator Rick Scott, please mute your mic,” said the Ukrainian leader, who was dressed in his customary T-shirt, according to one person on the call.





__





Subscribe to read | Financial Times


News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




www.ft.com

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## Wood

2000 people from Thailand interested in joining Ukraine to fight Russia

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## jhungary

Rafi said:


> China is planning to take over the business of Western firms that have left Russia. Looking to have a big export surplus.


It's harder than you thought, because to do that, China will have to have parallel production line.

Bear in mind US sanction can directly and indirectly affect Chinese business. Directly is for those Chinese company that also have contract in the US, it can still be affected by US (remember how US accuse Huawei for circumventing US sanction and trade with Iran?) and indirectly even if that Chinese company did not have any US contract.

Say for example, Oppo, a Chinese phone company, want to take over Russia after Samsung and Apple left. Yes, they can, because Oppo did not operate in the US, however, Oppo phones uses US technology (Wifi Adapter, CPU, GPU and so on) US Company are not allow to have business with Russia, so if any Oppo phone have any US Technology on it, they will need to rip that off that phone and replace it with Chinese own component.

The problem is, now you have 2 phones, one specifically for Russia without any US or EU technology, and the other is for rest of the world, but you would still have to invest in another production line just for the phone destine for Russia, question is, would Oppo do that?

China may be able to take over Russia market on simple stuff (like Furniture, Primary product and so on) but complex manufacturing would most definitely impacted by the sanction.

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## fallschirmjager786

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499855858456567809
Pretty interesting read. Thoughts?? China will for sure be exploiting the Russian bear. Doesn't look like the Russians thought it would be this bad with Europe completely turning on them.

Read the full twitter thread for context.

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## Wood

PK784 said:


> Sweet deal for Poland.
> 
> "FT reports that the US is working with the Polish government to supply MiG-29s to Ukraine in exchange for US F-16s"
> 
> 
> "The deal would involve Ukraine receiving Russian-made warplanes from Poland, which would then be given American F-16s by the US to refill its stocks. It comes amid fears Russia will increase air strikes given the slow progress of parts of its ground campaign."
> 
> The White House said it was negotiating with Poland and consulting other Nato allies but that there were “a number of challenging practical questions, including how the planes could actually be transferred from Poland to Ukraine”.
> 
> Zelensky had expressed appreciation for the stingers, but said they were insufficient because they were not able to fly high enough to take out some Russian aircraft.
> 
> Zelensky opened the call with US lawmakers with a 20-minute plea for more American support. At one point during his emotional presentation, he paused to ask one of the American lawmakers to mute themselves. “Senator Rick Scott, please mute your mic,” said the Ukrainian leader, who was dressed in his customary T-shirt, according to one person on the call.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Subscribe to read | Financial Times
> 
> 
> News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ft.com


US should offer the same deal to India as well 



jhungary said:


> It's harder than you thought, because to do that, China will have to have parallel production line.
> 
> Bear in mind US sanction can directly and indirectly affect Chinese business. Directly is for those Chinese company that also have contract in the US, it can still be affected by US (remember how US accuse Huawei for circumcising US sanction and trade with Iran?) and indirectly even if that Chinese company did not have any US contract.
> 
> Say for example, Oppo, a Chinese phone company, want to take over Russia after Samsung and Apple left. Yes, they can, because Oppo did not operate in the US, however, Oppo phones uses US technology (Wifi Adapter, CPU, GPU and so on) US Company are not allow to have business with Russia, so if any Oppo phone have any US Technology on it, they will need to rip that off that phone and replace it with Chinese own component.
> 
> The problem is, now you have 2 phones, one specifically for Russia without any US or EU technology, and the other is for rest of the world, but you would still have to invest in another production line just for the phone destine for Russia, question is, would Oppo do that?
> 
> China may be able to take over Russia market on simple stuff (like Furniture, Primary product and so on) but complex manufacturing would most definitely impacted by the sanction.


The problem that I've seen with many people in this forum is that they don't know how sanctions work. They think that sanctions mean that US has given an order that people should not trade with the sanctioned country

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## jhungary

notorious_eagle said:


> NATO spends a combined $1 Trillion on Defense, out of which the US spends $800 billion. Only a fool would think the Russians even stand a chance in a conventional fight against NATO.
> 
> I am simply at a loss at how Russia executed this war. The entire Russian General Staff should be fired, and i used to have the highest amount of respect for the Russian General Staff.


Or killed.....

If you had followed the news, Major General Andrey Sukhovetsky was killed in Hostomel a few days ago, along with 2 other subordinate general.

Normally, a General in that rank would not be in the front, he is 4 or 5 rank above the people that are in the front, this is like Omar Bradley was killed on the landing at Normandy...he is killed either means one of the 2 things. 

1.) He was pushed by Putin to go look at what's wrong on the line, which mean Putin think the progress is unacceptable.
2.) He thought that a place was secured by instead Ukrainian have the ability to penetrate the Russian rear.

Either way it does not spell a rosy picture for the Russian advance, and I can only see Putin would whip their general and they may have to take the risk themselves, I would not be envy those in charge right now..



Wood said:


> US should offer the same deal to India as well
> 
> 
> The problem that I've seen with many people in this forum is that they don't know how sanctions work


Yeah, people are blinded to believe what they want to believe.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500182801580240905

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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> yeah the public order equipment got me thinking this was an advance column and not a relief one.


It's the other way around. 

Russia doctrine dictated that the spearhead force will continue the advance and not occupy the city, that mean those convoy is highly probably be reserve troop that was used to occupy the country. Occupation troop are usually lightly equipment because the bulk of fighting has already been done by the invading troop...

In general, you don't use your invading troop, or your crack troop, to stop to occupy a City, because doing that you lost momentum...you want to keep the momentum going and pressure your enemy.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500100090236702720

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## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


> It's the other way around.
> 
> Russia doctrine dictated that the spearhead force will continue the advance and not occupy the city, that mean those convoy is highly probably be reserve troop that was used to occupy the country. Occupation troop are usually lightly equipment because the bulk of fighting has already been done by the invading troop...
> 
> In general, you don't use your invading troop, or your crack troop, to stop to occupy a City, because doing that you lost momentum...you want to keep the momentum going and pressure your enemy.


Well they’ve made a dogs dinner of it now anyway 😂😅

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## Madni Bappa

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500100090236702720


Damn big for habibis to be saying this.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500189388202037250

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## Microsoft

I wish I could do a q and a with the "anyone but Trump" crowd.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499882430668619780

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## PK784

RescueRanger said:


> Well they’ve made a dogs dinner of it now anyway 😂😅


History is repeating itself: 

"Despite Russia's overwhelming advantages in firepower, manpower, weaponry, artillery, combat vehicles, airstrikes and air support, the resulting widespread demoralization of federal forces and the almost universal opposition of the Russian public to the conflict led Boris Yeltsin's government to declare a ceasefire with the Chechens in 1996, and finally a peace treaty in 1997."

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## The SC

The Yamal-Europe pipeline has halted all westbound gas supplies, meaning the flow from Russia to Germany has been suspended indefinitely.
Russia meets nearly 40% of European gas demand via this route, and the halting of the supply could potentially cause gas prices in Europe to skyrocket.
Utility prices in some European nations have already hit record highs amid the EU’s imposition of sanctions on Russia.

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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> Well they’ve made a dogs dinner of it now anyway 😂😅


Well, latest intel suggested that it still days away before Kharkiv are in any reasonable risk to fall to the Russian. things can change in a minutes tho, if Russia can pick up the pieces and regroup. 

But then I have been saying this for the last 8 days, really....

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## The SC



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## Wood

The SC said:


> View attachment 821170
> 
> The Yamal-Europe pipeline has halted all westbound gas supplies, meaning the flow from Russia to Germany has been suspended indefinitely.
> Russia meets nearly 40% of European gas demand via this route, and the halting of the supply could potentially cause gas prices in Europe to skyrocket.
> Utility prices in some European nations have already hit record highs amid the EU’s imposition of sanctions on Russia.


Aggressive move. This will test European resolve like nothing else can

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## The SC



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## Madni Bappa

Is Russia using any special forces?


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## mingle

Vergennes said:


> It's easy to say "fake" when you don't provide a source to counter this


So U want me to believe any random video and pic??? Absolutely not we have seen such disinfo last yr but this time it's on bigger scale


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## mingle

fallschirmjager786 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500192529215631365
> More Elite Russian Vehicles on the way to the front. They'll be joining up with Russian Elite forces waiting just outside Ukraine while the cannon fodder/conscripts go in and mop up the Ukrainians.


I liked these vehicles better than Talibans Has last yr


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## Smoke

The propaganda has reached the levels of 1942, insane!

I never thought I’d live to see the day that history is unraveling before my eyes in a new era. We were taught this media strategy used by the Nazi’s in school back in 2002-3!

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## Song Hong

__ https://www.facebook.com/RTnews/posts/10160722995969411

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## Wergeland 2.0

Wood said:


> Aggressive move. This will test European resolve like nothing else can



Likely scenarios:

- Germany tones down its anti-Russian actions and rhetoric and forces Poland to do that too.

- Germany starts buying LNG from USA, which is more expensive.

- Germany buys more LNG from USA and Middle East. USA forces its ally Qatar to produce more gas and/or sell it cheaper.

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## jhungary

Wood said:


> Aggressive move. This will test European resolve like nothing else can


The resolved has already been tested, otherwise why would you think it take EU 3 days to sanction Russia?

When they had done that, that mean no more oil and gas is coming from Russia. And this is more or less expected the day they sign the sanction on the 28th.

There are good thing and bad thing, good thing is winter has already came to a close, and while it is still cold but I think the oil and gas reserve can last until next winter, by then a EU pipeline to US or Middle East or both should have been constructed. Another good thing for EU is now the gas and oil being turn off, they can go after Oil Infrastructure in Russia. Which is yet to be sanctioned. I would see EU passing sanction on cutting off the remaining Russia bank on SWIFT

Bad things is all these money for Russia pipelines is going to go down to drain...Somebody is going bust, I suspect it would be Gerhard Schröder

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## doorstar

jhungary said:


> US accuse Huawei for circumcising US sanction and trade with Iran


how on earth were you able to enlist with such inadequate level of English?

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500253795493855240


jhungary said:


> The resolved has already been tested, otherwise why would you think it take EU 3 days to sanction Russia?
> 
> When they had done that, that mean no more oil and gas is coming from Russia. And this is more or less expected the day they sign the sanction on the 28th.
> 
> There are good thing and bad thing, good thing is winter has already came to a close, and while it is still cold but I think the oil and gas reserve can last until next winter, by then a EU pipeline to US or Middle East or both should have been constructed. Another good thing for EU is now the gas and oil being turn off, they can go after Oil Infrastructure in Russia. Which is yet to be sanctioned. I would see EU passing sanction on cutting off the remaining Russia bank on SWIFT
> 
> Bad things is all these money for Russia pipelines is going to go down to drain...Somebody is going bust, I suspect it would be Gerhard Schröder


I think this turn off may be fake news. I don't see it being reported elsewhere

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## jhungary

doorstar said:


> how on earth were you able to enlist into the US forces with such level of English?


Dude, what's English have to do with enlisting in the US Military?

You do know American from American Virgin Island, Puerto Rico and American Samoa do not speak English as Official Language, so I guess there must be no Puerto Rico National Guard then. Hell, a lot of Chicano enlisted in California, Texas and Florida too.









Puerto Rico National Guard - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org










Also, my English is better than you thought, probably better than you, I just don't proof read and I speak 3 different languages, I mean if you want a convo, I can give you my whatapps and you can hear how "shit" is my English.

I simply just gave up on Grammar Nazi a long time ago.



Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500253795493855240
> 
> I think this has turn off may be fake news. I don't see it being reported elsewhere


Don't know, but even if this is real, it is expected....

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## doorstar

jhungary said:


> Dude, what's English have to do with enlisting in the US Military?
> 
> You do know American from American Virgin Island, Puerto Rico and American Samoa do not speak English as Official Language, so I guess there must be no Puerto Rico National Guard then. Hell, a lot of Chicano enlisted in California, Texas and Florida too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Puerto Rico National Guard - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, my English is better than you thought, probably better than you, I just don't proof read and I speak 3 different languages, I mean if you want a convo, I can give you my whatapps and you can hear how "shit" is my English.
> 
> I simply just gave up on Grammar Nazi a long time ago.


so you are ordered to circumvent something and you pass on the order to your subordinates to circumcise it?

in all my born days I never came across a US officer such as yourself who would not know circumventing from circumcision!

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## jhungary

doorstar said:


> so you are ordered to circumvent something and you pass on the order to your subordinates to circumcise it?
> 
> in all my born days I never came across a US officer such as *youeself* who would not know circumventing from circumcision!


Probably the same reason why you type "youeself" instead of "yourself"

I use my phone to post, sometime it got autocorrected to something else, and sometime I caught it, sometime I don't, I don't see the big point of it.

But if you want to blow it up, again, as I said, I can give you my whatsapp and we can discuss it further IN ENGLISH.

As for whether I know what "Circumcision" mean, well, I had one, so, what do you think?

Dude, maybe next time you spell check your own post before call out people who don't spell check theirs..........This would make your argument more valid...

*This is the reason I don't bother to proof read my post anymore, people who criticize someone else's grammar or spelling usually themselves have shit grammar or spelling to begin with. Then what's the point exactly...*

I saw what you did there...you corrected your typo. Maybe you should do it earlier before you post to make your post more legit...Me? As I said I wouldn't be bothered...

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## Microsoft

So even western media agrees on these:
1) Donbas in Russian control
2) Mariupol in Russian control
3) Kherson in Russian control
4) Chernobyl and Zaporzhzhia (at least power plants) in Russian control
5) Kiev almost surrounded

All in the course of 10 days. But the official agenda is Ukraine is winning? Any of the NATO apologists care to explain?

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## tower9

I keep analyzing this situation but what does Russia have to gain from all this? Ok, they will defeat Ukraine at a heavy cost, but it will turn the people there permanently anti-Russian. They can install a puppet, but that person will be overthrown eventually. Also, they might get sucked into a never ending guerilla war which will drain their resources. 

Meanwhile Russia's economy is getting cut off from the West and living standards will eventually drop. 

No doubt, the West will also be hurt as well, but most likely not as badly as Russia. 

It's just becoming more clear that Putin has made a huge miscalculation. Did he start smoking his own propaganda so much that he no longer understood some of the realities he was facing?

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500310457017675777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500311878953746436

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500312124903596034


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## jhungary

Microsoft said:


> So even western media agrees on these:
> 1) Donbas in Russian control
> 2) Mariupol in Russian control
> 3) Kherson in Russian control
> 4) Chernobyl and Zaporzhzhia (at least power plants) in Russian control
> 5) Kiev almost surrounded
> 
> All in the course of 10 days. But the official agenda is Ukraine is winning? Any of the NATO apologists care to explain?



Mariupol is in contest, it's not under Russian control. And should have been under control on day 1 due to its proximity.

Also, Russian aggression route is actually quite slow, because their battleplan as Lukashenko leaked some days ago. Was to cut off Southern Ukraine and annex Eastern Ukraine along the line between Mariupol to Dnipro to Kyiv along the Dnieper River. To do that, Russia would need to take Kyiv, Dnipro, Mariupol and Odessa, none of them felt. 

And the Russian advance is on 11 days, it already committed all tactic reserve, and troop rotation is coming in at 28 days limit by then Russia would need to put in Strategic Reserve, which I don't know if they have any. And then couple to the fact that 11 days in and none of the major city felt to Russia, this time table is not going to be Russian fan.

I will not say Ukrainian is winning, but Russian is not winning either.

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## sur

RT on broken promise about NATO expansion:

German FM claimed:








RT counters that claim:


















sur said:


> I think (correct me if wrong) that *Russians started to make a big issue* of "no _NATO along our borders_" *around 2014*.
> While previous NATO countries bordering Russia happened *BEFORE *2014 (in *2004* as this tweet says).
> 
> It doesn't matter whether there was ever a formal promise from NATO of not expanding into Ukraine. It could very well be a one-sided demand by Russia, just like one-sided demand by USA about Cuba. Or it could be a promise made in private meetings that never was scribed into black and white.
> 
> 
> *So anyone saying that*, "oh why Russia says we won't accept NATO expansion along our border, when they already have a couple of NATO countries bordering them", *needs to understand this timeline*.
> 
> 
> 
> Lets put that out in large font:
> 
> 
> 
> *2004 -vs- 2014*
> 
> 
> *NATO bordering Russia -vs- No more please or we'll do sth about it like you reacted to Cuba*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> e.g.
> 
> (Source)
> 
> 
> The Russian Foreign Ministry has made another statement about Ukraine: militants, NATO, provocations​THURSDAY, 27 FEBRUARY *2014*, 18:35
> 
> 
> Russia's Foreign Ministry calls on the West, and *in particular NATO, to "refrain from provocative statements* and *respect Ukraine's non-aligned status*."
> 
> This is stated in a statement by the Russian Foreign Ministry on the situation in Ukraine, the text of which is posted on its website.
> 
> In it, Moscow states that the *agreement on resolving the crisis in Ukraine, signed on February 21*, this year. and certified by the foreign ministers of Germany, Poland and France, is still not being implemented.
> 
> "The *militants have not yet surrendered* their weapons, have not vacated administrative buildings, and are announcing their intention to" restore order "in all regions of Ukraine. There are threats of physical violence, as stated in today's statement by President Viktor Yanukovych," it said.
> 
> "The agreement on joint investigation of acts of violence has been forgotten, as well as the obligation to create a government of national unity. Instead, as stated on the Maidan, a" government of winners "is being created, which includes representatives of national extremists," Moscow said.
> 
> According to the statement, the forgotten agreements on constitutional reform, "which according to the February 21 Agreement must precede the presidential election. We are convinced that only such a constitutional framework that ensures the interests of all responsible political forces and all regions of Ukraine long-term ".
> 
> The* Foreign Ministry called on the West to realize its responsibility *for the implementation of this Agreement.
> 
> "We call on those foreign partners *who initially encouraged opposition protests*, initiated and supported the February 21 Agreement, to fully realize their responsibility for its implementation," the statement said.
> 
> The Kremlin has expressed readiness to cooperate with Western countries on Ukraine.
> 
> At the same time in the statement reproaches sounded.
> "We emphasize that the calls of Western countries to Russia for cooperation on issues related to the situation in Ukraine have become more frequent. We proposed this long ago, long before the crisis entered a hot phase, but then colleagues were ready to do so," they said. in the Russian Foreign Ministry.
> 
> "However, we are ready to cooperate - with a clear understanding that it will be honest, based on the ability not only to negotiate, but also to implement agreements that must take into account the interests of all Ukrainian people and all partners of Ukraine," the Russian Foreign Ministry said. .
> 
> Fulfillment of obligations under the February 21 Agreement would be an important step in this direction, it said.
> 
> When NATO begins to consider the situation in Ukraine, it sends the wrong signal.* And the NATO Secretary General even said it was appropriate to say that "Ukraine's membership in NATO is not the most urgent priority of the Ukrainian leadership.*" "They are trying to solve for the Ukrainian people again," the Foreign Ministry said in a statement.
> 
> Russian diplomats did not hold back and said: "We strongly advise everyone to refrain from provocative statements and* respect the non-aligned status of Ukraine*, enshrined in its law" On the foundations of domestic and foreign policy. "
> 
> We will remind, on February 21 the Commissioner for Human Rights in the Russian Federation Vladimir Lukin, being at negotiations in Kiev on February 21 , refused to sign the Agreement on an exit from crisis to which the Russian Foreign Ministry appeals in the statement.
> 
> He said he did not understand who the "characters" were.
> 
> Ukrainian Pravda
> 
> 
> 
> I think *it could be these clauses* in 21-Feb-2014's agreement that Russia may be referring to when it *says no-NATO*:
> 
> "Withdrawal of heavy weapons by both sides.",
> or "The government and the opposition will refrain from the use of force",
> and "Withdrawal of foreign armed formations, military equipment, mercenaries."
> 
> i.e. if Ukraine joins NATO that will violate this clause in essence. By tilting the balance between pro & anti Russian Ukrainians.




.
.
.



jhungary said:


> This is an interesting read
> ...


Looks like promises (or lack thereof) that both parties refer to were verbal and hence now subject to memories of participants!
Just like Mikhail Gorbachev remembers it a certain way, Russians may say that German diplomat _Chrobog_ remembers it more accurately.
And that is in writing circulated by UK to Europeans.


----------



## jhungary

tower9 said:


> I keep analyzing this situation but what does Russia have to gain from all this? Ok, they will defeat Ukraine at a heavy cost, but it will turn the people there permanently anti-Russian. They can install a puppet, but that person will be overthrown eventually. Also, they might get sucked into a never ending guerilla war which will drain their resources.
> 
> Meanwhile Russia's economy is getting cut off from the West and living standards will eventually drop.
> 
> No doubt, the West will also be hurt as well, but most likely not as badly as Russia.
> 
> It's just becoming more clear that Putin has made a huge miscalculation. Did he start smoking his own propaganda so much that he no longer understood some of the realities he was facing?



Probably best said by a BBC head line I saw probably day 2 or day 3 on the invasion, the headline read

"Russia has made NATO great again"

The blowback is much, much more further than Ukraine and Russia itself... If we look at the strategic changes after the war, and assuming Russia can win and even successfully repel a Ukrainian insurgency. The Changes is as follow


EU/NATO increase military spending.
Russia/NATO Border increased from 2 (Latvia and Estonia) currently to 6 (the 2 + Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Hungary) 7 if Finland Joining NATO as well
US Troop increase in Eastern Europe
 All these are going to come even after Russia successfully invaded Ukraine and on top of everything you said in your post.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

World War III? 👇



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500296791178285059

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500108117274673154


----------



## jhungary

sur said:


> RT on broken promise about NATO expansion:
> 
> German FM claimed:
> View attachment 821190
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RT counters that claim:
> View attachment 821192
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 821191


This is an interesting read



https://www.rbth.com/international/2014/10/16/mikhail_gorbachev_i_am_against_all_walls_40673.html



Mikhail Gorbachev: I am against all walls​
When asked by the interviewer form "Russian beyond the Headline" (The same company who own RT own RBTH)




> *RBTH: One of the key issues that has arisen in connection with the events in Ukraine is NATO expansion into the East. Do you get the feeling that your Western partners lied to you when they were developing their future plans in Eastern Europe? Why didn’t you insist that the promises made to you – particularly U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s promise that NATO would not expand into the East – be legally encoded? I will quote Baker: “NATO will not move one inch further east.”*




This is what Mikhail Gorbachev, the man who signed the 1991 agreement



> *M.G.: The topic of “NATO expansion” was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years*. I say this with full responsibility. Not a singe Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn’t bring it up, either. Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces from the alliance would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement, mentioned in your question, was made in that context. Kohl and [German Vice Chancellor Hans-Dietrich] Genscher talked about it.
> Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled. The agreement on a final settlement with Germany said that no new military structures would be created in the eastern part of the country; no additional troops would be deployed; no weapons of mass destruction would be placed there. It has been observed all these years. So don’t portray Gorbachev and the then-Soviet authorities as naïve people who were wrapped around the West’s finger. If there was naïveté, it was later, when the issue arose. Russia at first did not object.
> ​


​


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> World War III? 👇
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500296791178285059
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500108117274673154


Think it meant they transfer those article to Ukraine. Not for Poland to use them on Russia....

This is no different than what the West has done already

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## Microsoft

jhungary said:


> Mariupol is in contest, it's not under Russian control. And should have been under control on day 1 due to its proximity.
> 
> Also, Russian aggression route is actually quite slow, because their battleplan as Lukashenko leaked some days ago. Was to cut off Southern Ukraine and annex Eastern Ukraine along the line between Mariupol to Dnipro to Kyiv along the Dnieper River. To do that, Russia would need to take Kyiv, Dnipro, Mariupol and Odessa, none of them felt.
> 
> And the Russian advance is on 11 days, it already committed all tactic reserve, and troop rotation is coming in at 28 days limit by then Russia would need to put in Strategic Reserve, which I don't know if they have any. And then couple to the fact that 11 days in and none of the major city felt to Russia, this time table is not going to be Russian fan.
> 
> I will not say Ukrainian is winning, but Russian is not winning either.



Mariupol is under Russian control according to multiple (including Western) sources. Lukashenko's "leak" could be a red-herring for all we know. It would be silly to believe that a world leader would leak such critical information in that fashion in a life or death situation for his country. 

10 days or 11 days depends on when you consider the start and it could also be time zone difference since you are in Australia. Also Kherson is considered a major city and Odessa will likely be next to fall into Russian hands as the fighting in the southern region has been going well for Russians. Russians have called in forces even from the Eastern part of Russia so they have more forces on the way.

My claim is not that Russia is winning. I'm trying to understand where the narrative of Ukraine winning comes from.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500316774197346308

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500317712500801538

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## Englishman

The SC said:


>


Was just about to post this ACTUAL WAR footage lost in a swamp of dubious tweets. More of this is needed. Fascinating watch.

@RescueRanger
@jhungary
@gambit

Would appreciate your thoughts on this engagement gentlemen. Seems genuine.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500164831428685828

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## jhungary

Microsoft said:


> Mariupol is under Russian control according to multiple (including Western) sources. Lukashenko's "leak" could be a red-herring for all we know. It would be silly to believe that a world leader would leak such critical information in that fashion in a life or death situation for his country.
> 
> 10 days or 11 days depends on when you consider the start and it could also be time zone difference since you are in Australia. Also Kherson is considered a major city and Odessa will likely be next to fall into Russian hands as the fighting in the southern region has been going well for Russians. Russians have called in forces even from the Eastern part of Russia so they have more forces on the way.
> 
> My claim is not that Russia is winning. I'm trying to understand where the narrative of Ukraine winning comes from.


None of the big news organisation (non biased one not like Fox or MSNBC) said Mariupol has felt, The Ukrainian internal ministry has not said Mariupol had failed. While I still cannot connect to people I know in Ukraine to verify whether or not Mariupol had felt, I would say this is not yet fallen. 

It take Russian force 9 days to take Kherson, and Odessa is about 5 times as big (900,000 resident vs 200,000 resident), it would probably be next month if and when Odessa fall. 

The Ukrainian "winning" is coming from the lack of progress on the Russia side, a fact reflected very clearly on the losing of 3 Russian general on the front line. General don't usually tour the frontline unless there is a problem of the offensive, and the fact that the 3 was killed means stuff is not at all going in the Russian direction. 

On the other hand @tower9 said, this is a no sum game for the Russia, even if Russia did manage to conquer Ukraine, ignoring the fact that there are going to be a long and unwieldly insurgency, let's set that aside for a moment, it actually make Russian situation more dire instead of better, NATO is going to step up, Russia lost a chunk of economy, possibly cannot be recover from (Depends on how deep the Chinese want to go to help them) and then they would most likely ended up with MORE NATO border instead of less. I think on a strategic level, Russia already had lost, it's just how they salvage the situation in term of scoring a tactical victory is what left to be discovered.

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## Microsoft

Racist Ukranians:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500153632469233664

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## Wergeland 2.0

The hostile acts between the blocks are getting more intense day by day.

Soon both USA and Russia will have to decide if its worth or not, to declare a full spectrum warfare for the sake of Ukraine.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500139357658832897

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## tower9

jhungary said:


> None of the big news organisation (non biased one not like Fox or MSNBC) said Mariupol has felt, The Ukrainian internal ministry has not said Mariupol had failed. While I still cannot connect to people I know in Ukraine to verify whether or not Mariupol had felt, I would say this is not yet fallen.
> 
> It take Russian force 9 days to take Kherson, and Odessa is about 5 times as big (900,000 resident vs 200,000 resident), it would probably be next month if and when Odessa fall.
> 
> The Ukrainian "winning" is coming from the lack of progress on the Russia side, a fact reflected very clearly on the losing of 3 Russian general on the front line. General don't usually tour the frontline unless there is a problem of the offensive, and the fact that the 3 was killed means stuff is not at all going in the Russian direction.
> 
> On the other hand @tower9 said, this is a no sum game for the Russia, even if Russia did manage to conquer Ukraine, ignoring the fact that there are going to be a long and unwieldly insurgency, let's set that aside for a moment, it actually make Russian situation more dire instead of better, NATO is going to step up, Russia lost a chunk of economy, possibly cannot be recover from (Depends on how deep the Chinese want to go to help them) and then they would most likely ended up with MORE NATO border instead of less. I think on a strategic level, Russia already had lost, it's just how they salvage the situation in term of scoring a tactical victory is what left to be discovered.



At this point, this talk about what ground was captured or not is pointless. Russia is many times more powerful than Ukraine, of course, it will win the war. However, I just can't see how the world after this war would be more advantageous for Russia. I just don't see it. Does Putin have some ace up his sleeve that we don't know about or has he really gone nuts?


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500098646485966852


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## mingle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500098646485966852


I watched on RT its big Heros ran westwards as civilian🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Flight of falcon

I gotta give it to the Western media and Ukrainian supporters . They have shamelessly propagate and peddled fake news like never before in the history . 

Most of the videos are outright fake or exaggerated to say the least. 

Western media created the fake news such as a 40 mile Russian convoy, which was once attacking Kiev , then bogged down , then ran out of fuel, then soldiers deserted and finally ambushed by the brave Ukrainians. The entire story is so outlandish and stupid that any one with an ounce of brain will not be able to stop shaking their heads in disbelief. 

Western media deliberately created the hype that Russians are unable to take Kiev as if it was supposed to be a walk in the park. Ukraine had a large professional and well armed army. They are equally armed and trained as the Russians except they cannot match Russians in number . Ofcourse they were going to fight to death their equally trained and qualitatively equal army.

Why wouldn’t they ? 

So the expectation Russia was to win the war in few days was a deliberate misinformation to create the sense that Russians are stalled and loosing. 

They are neither stalled nor loosing. They are deliberately and methodically moving and capturing area. Their goal is not to just capture the territory but to destroy and disarm Ukrainian army infrastructure . That they are doing well and moving slowly in the process .

Yes in some places they are stalled but that is totally expected from a well armed enemy that is determined to defend their homeland .

The end is not in doubt. The question is how much Russians will destroy …. Both the military and civilian …. To teach their enemy a lesson.

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## Zulfiqar

Kyiv/Kiev front seems to have been flooded.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499786877448200192


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## sur

Related to the quoted post:

U.S. and allies quietly prepare for a Ukrainian government-in-exile and a long insurgency​[. . .] in Washington and European capitals,* officials anticipate that the Russian military will reverse its early losses*, setting the stage for a long, bloody insurgency.
[. . .] Officials have been reluctant to discuss detailed plans, since they’re *premised on a Russian military victory* that, however likely, hasn’t happened yet.
[. . .] Ukraine’s *allies are planning for how to help establish* and support a* government-in-exile*, which could direct guerrilla operations against Russian occupiers.
[. . .] *weapons the United States has provided* to Ukraine’s military, and that continue to flow into the country,* would be crucial to the success of an insurgent movement*
[. . .] take up a $10 billion
[. . .] The *possible Russian takeover of Kyiv has prompted a flurry of planning at* the State Department, Pentagon and other U.S. agencies in the event that the Zelensky government has to flee the capital or the country itself.
[. . .] United States diverted some military aid to Ukraine that it had planned to send to Afghanistan, but that package mostly included small arms, ammunition and medical kits
[. . .] As the *Russian military struggles with logistical challenges *— including fuel and food shortages — Waltz anticipates that the Ukrainians will repeatedly strike Russian supply lines. To do that, they need a steady supply of weapons and the *ability to set improvised explosive devices*, he said. “*Those supply lines are going to be very, very vulnerable, and that’s where you really literally starve the Russian army*.”
[. . .] Continuing a resistance campaign *will require continued clandestine shipments of small arms, ammunition, explosives* and even cold-weather gear. “Think about the kinds of things that would be used by* saboteurs as opposed to an army *repelling a frontal invasion,” Moulton said. *Officials remain cautious about overt support for a Ukrainian insurgency lest it draw NATO member *countries into direct conflict with Russia. In Moscow’s eyes, support for a Zelensky government operating in Poland could constitute an attack by the alliance, some officials warned.
[. . .] *successful insurgencies*. Veterans of such conflicts say that *the Ukrainians so far have demonstrated the key ingredient*. “The number one thing you have to have is people on the ground who want to fight,”
[. . .] If Russian and Ukrainian negotiators who have been meeting near the border in Belarus reach some settlement, that will likely diminish the momentum for an insurgency and support for it [_so the dreamers of protracted insurgency will have a problem with a successful negotiations and would want them to fail ?_]
[. . .] “As occupation progresses and extends for a longer time, what can start out as a more centralized resistance often changes into smaller resistance groups or units. It is not a negative thing,” she said. “In fact, smaller groups allow more resilience.”
[. . .] as stocks of ammunition dwindle and the Russian military extends its encirclement of major cities. . . . Russian occupation forces will try to squeeze supply pipelines and cut off cities.
[. . .] Ukraine should be preparing its citizens for combat in cities . . . they should establish safe areas underground to survive. . .place snipers on rooftops.
[. . .] Putin might attempt to reduce Ukraine “to a much smaller state.” . .western Ukraine would remain independent. The other territories would be incorporated into Russia, occupied, or declared independent states, as the Kremlin has already done with the Donetsk and Luhansk regions. But Russia’s ability to impose that vision is “most improbable,” the diplomat said, given the profound anger in Ukraine against the Russian invasion.



Another similar article:
As war loomed, U.S. armed Ukraine to hit Russian aircraft, tanks and prep for urban combat, declassified shipment list shows​...The list indicates that *as early as December, the Pentagon was equipping Ukrainian* fighters...



sur said:


> Here you go.
> 
> They are expecting [read planning] to turn it into an *insurgency* @9:53+ again @10:10+ they expect [plan] that *this will continue for a very long time, years*. @15:17+ *we're gonna help them fight* [a protracted insurgency]. [Instead of helping towards a ceasefire, will help them fight].
> 
> These instigators talk high of Ukrainian people, how children are suffering in NICUs, but *how do they plan to help mitigate those sufferings? By sending more Javelins and weapons* *and **insurgents**, instead of* hastily bringing a ceasefire solution!. In addition they will help the suffering Ukrainians by banning Russian oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil, oil . . . goes on for half an hour.
> 
> MEDIA=youtube]yiPvbnKy0oY:593[/MEDIA]
> 
> That may be the plan of instigators but *if Russians are successful at encircling the country, then insurgency won't get fuel and will wither soon*.
> Probably *that's why instigators are in a rush to supply as much weapons* as quickly as possible, instead of rushing to achieve some sort of ceasefire.
> "Hurry before our routes are blocked".
> 
> Why I'm feeling deja-vu I wonder? Hmm, oh yes, the 1000+ NATO containers unaccounted for in Pakistan.
> 
> Anyways, if they were sincere about Ukrainian civilians, as they _poorly_ pretend, then they would be heard talking about going to the table. Not the case here.

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## Wergeland 2.0

Ukrainian resistance seems to be on the brink of collapse. It may not last more than a week or two. If Kiev falls then its game over.

If the larger cities to the east and south falls first then Russian units will be freed and redirected towards north (Kiev) and west i believe.

Russia is likely to take the control of the whole area between Transnistria and Russia/Ukraine border. IMO also likely to take west Ukraine to the Polish border but that is probably not priority ATM.

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## mingle

Flight of falcon said:


> I gotta give it to the Western media and Ukrainian supporters . They have shamelessly propagate and peddled fake news like never before in the history .
> 
> Most of the videos are outright fake or exaggerated to say the least.
> 
> Western media created the fake news such as a 40 mile Russian convoy, which was once attacking Kiev , then bogged down , then ran out of fuel, then soldiers deserted and finally ambushed by the brave Ukrainians. The entire story is so outlandish and stupid that any one with an ounce of brain will not be able to stop shaking their heads in disbelief.
> 
> Western media deliberately created the hype that Russians are unable to take Kiev as if it was supposed to be a walk in the park. Ukraine had a large professional and well armed army. They are equally armed and trained as the Russians except they cannot match Russians in number . Ofcourse they were going to fight to death their equally trained and qualitatively equal army.
> 
> Why wouldn’t they ?
> 
> So the expectation Russia was to win the war in few days was a deliberate misinformation to create the sense that Russians are stalled and loosing.
> 
> They are neither stalled nor loosing. They are deliberately and methodically moving and capturing area. Their goal is not to just capture the territory but to destroy and disarm Ukrainian army infrastructure . That they are doing well and moving slowly in the process .
> 
> Yes in some places they are stalled but that is totally expected from a well armed enemy that is determined to defend their homeland .
> 
> The end is not in doubt. The question is how much Russians will destroy …. Both the military and civilian …. To teach their enemy a lesson.


problem with this propaganda is only westren public suck into it When U start believing on Ur own propaganda Ur doomed seen in Afghanistan Iraq even last yr Russian game plan is simple like WW2 quantity with some quality.



Wergeland 2.0 said:


> Ukrainian resistance seems to be on the brink of collapse. It may not last more than a week or two. If Kiev falls then its game over.
> 
> If the larger cities to the east and south falls first then Russian units will be freed and redirected towards north (Kiev) and west i believe.
> 
> Russia i likely to take the whole area between Transnistria and Russia/Ukraine border. IMO also likely to take west Ukraine to the Polish border but that is probably not priority ATM.


Also read somewhere Russia moving S400 now in Ukrain the areas they secured and occupied again it could be another fake news

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## Flight of falcon

i hate Russians for what they did in Syria but I simply cannot believe the clown PM of Ukrainians who single handedly destroyed the entire country just because he wanted to join NATO…….

Perhaps he was too busy to watch Tv and see what Americans did to their Afghan allies just few months back…… 

What a bloody looser….

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## mingle

sur said:


> Related to the quoted post:
> 
> U.S. and allies quietly prepare for a Ukrainian government-in-exile and a long insurgency​[. . .] in Washington and European capitals,* officials anticipate that the Russian military will reverse its early losses*, setting the stage for a long, bloody insurgency.
> [. . .] Officials have been reluctant to discuss detailed plans, since they’re *premised on a Russian military victory* that, however likely, hasn’t happened yet.
> [. . .] Ukraine’s *allies are planning for how to help establish* and support a* government-in-exile*, which could direct guerrilla operations against Russian occupiers.
> [. . .] *weapons the United States has provided* to Ukraine’s military, and that continue to flow into the country,* would be crucial to the success of an insurgent movement*
> [. . .] take up a $10 billion
> [. . .] The *possible Russian takeover of Kyiv has prompted a flurry of planning at* the State Department, Pentagon and other U.S. agencies in the event that the Zelensky government has to flee the capital or the country itself.


I hope it won't happen this will destroy Europe another Afghanistan this time next door


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## sammuel

Flight of falcon said:


> I gotta give it to the Western media and Ukrainian supporters . They have shamelessly propagate and peddled fake news like never before in the history .
> 
> Most of the videos are outright fake or exaggerated to say the least.
> 
> Western media created the fake news such as a 40 mile Russian convoy, which was once attacking Kiev , then bogged down , then ran out of fuel, then soldiers deserted and finally ambushed by the brave Ukrainians. The entire story is so outlandish and stupid that any one with an ounce of brain will not be able to stop shaking their heads in disbelief.
> 
> Western media deliberately created the hype that Russians are unable to take Kiev as if it was supposed to be a walk in the park. Ukraine had a large professional and well armed army. They are equally armed and trained as the Russians except they cannot match Russians in number . Ofcourse they were going to fight to death their equally trained and qualitatively equal army.
> 
> Why wouldn’t they ?
> 
> So the expectation Russia was to win the war in few days was a deliberate misinformation to create the sense that Russians are stalled and loosing.
> 
> They are neither stalled nor loosing. They are deliberately and methodically moving and capturing area. Their goal is not to just capture the territory but to destroy and disarm Ukrainian army infrastructure . That they are doing well and moving slowly in the process .
> 
> Yes in some places they are stalled but that is totally expected from a well armed enemy that is determined to defend their homeland .
> 
> The end is not in doubt. The question is how much Russians will destroy …. Both the military and civilian …. To teach their enemy a lesson.



Like Russian news are more accurate .


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## Tamerlane

It seems like the West has gone bananas. They've raised tensions so high that now the public is demanding military action from NATO. The Canadian PM, Trudeau, had to go out of his way to explain why a No Fly Zone wasn't a good idea.

Western politicians have painted themselves into a corner. To stay in power they have to appear tough. To appear tough they have to keep adding more and more pressure on Russia. There's already a witch hunt going on against Russians. How long before Russians are rounded up in concentration camps?

All these announcements about delivering weapons and mercenaries to Ukraine. Do they think that Russians don't watch the news? That's practically a declaration of war. A cornered animal is dangerous.

Whatever happens now, whoever wins, the time to Armageddon has been reduced drastically. There will now be an all-out race by everyone to acquire weapons, including nuclear, and then there will be the final showdown, sooner rather than later.

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## sammuel

Flight of falcon said:


> i hate Russians for what they did in Syria but I simply cannot believe the clown PM of Ukrainians who single handedly destroyed the entire country just because he wanted to join NATO…….
> 
> Perhaps he was too busy to watch Tv and see what Americans did to their Afghan allies just few months back……
> 
> What a bloody looser….



He wanted to join NATO to prevent exactly that scenario . . . 

And if he was in NATO this invasion would most likely would not have happened . . .

~


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## thetutle

doorstar said:


> so you are ordered to circumvent something and you pass on the order to your subordinates to circumcise it?
> 
> in all my born days I never came across a US officer such as yourself who would not know circumventing from circumcision!



I've seen US and Canadian soldiers that speak English like Pablo Escobar in the movies. Even higher ranking ones.


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## Madni Bappa

sammuel said:


> He wanted to join NATO to prevent exactly that scenario . . .
> 
> And if he was in NATO this invasion would most likely would not have happened . . .
> 
> ~


Yar tu baki sab chor mujhe ye bta ab tere Brahmos, nuclear sub, aircraft carrier, helicopter deal, s400 deal, fighter jet deals, rifle deals etc etc ka kya ho ga???

Parts bhi band ho jae gae. Zara sochiye barkhordar.

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## Flight of falcon

sammuel said:


> He wanted to join NATO to prevent exactly that scenario . . .
> 
> And if he was in NATO this invasion would most likely would not have happened . . .
> 
> ~




How would America feel if Mexico allowed Chinese troops to be based in Mexico ? . How would America respond if the Mexican president dared to say no ???


One thing is for sure …. Americans needed a new market to sell their weapons after their war of terror…. They have hit a jackpot …..

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## Madni Bappa

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500098646485966852


Can Russians reuse these weapons?


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## Wergeland 2.0

Flight of falcon said:


> How would America feel if Mexico allowed Chinese troops to be based in Mexico ? . How would America respond if the Mexican president dared to say no ???



According to this logic, Mexico wouldnt be attacked by USA if the mexicans had become a formal Chinese ally and had chinese IRBM and chinese troops. Because Americans wouldnt dare.


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## Naram_Sin

When your adversary starts banning cats and literary authors, you know that all retaliatory steps he has taken did not have the desired effect and has effectively extinguished all meaningful options to the degree that they are now illegally looting Russian citizens assets.

Regardless of the military losses that Russia might suffer, wether they are exaggerated or underreported, they are ultimately an insignificant price in return for neutralizing a potential nuclear Nato Ukraine, this is the nation that gave 20 million people in WW2, a few thousands personel and some vehicles is a non figure.

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## thetutle

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> The hostile acts between the blocks are getting more intense day by day.
> 
> Soon both USA and Russia will have to decide if its worth or not, to declare a full spectrum warfare for the sake of Ukraine.


NATO already said it will not go to war with Russia over this. There is nothing more to decide.

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## notorious_eagle

PanzerKiel said:


> As far as I am concerned, the respect for Russian general staff is still there.
> 
> Our conclusions here are mostly based on whatever is available v on western media.
> 
> Equipment losses are in built in any war. Couple of tanks here, couple of aircraft there, c everyday, is always expected.
> 
> We have hardly seen any pics of Ukrainian dead, or their destroyed equipment. They say they are winning this. And every then, they are panicking.
> 
> Is not simple, it's not russia against Ukraine only. It's Russia against the whole NATO, look at the amount and quality of equipment and firepower being given to Ukrainians....



Hon @Joe Shearer @PanzerKiel @jhungary 

I agree with the notion that we have been flooded with Pro Ukrainian propaganda and the West is doing everything in its power to promote the notion that Ukraine is winning and will be at the gates of Moscow soon. We know that's not true and eventually the Russians will win using brute force. I think this map is a great illustration that despite the Social Media, the Russian pincers are advancing and soon they will trap Ukraine's most battle hardened troops in the East and surround Kiev as well. They are setting up their FOB's near Kiev as we speak. 







But my point still remains, how could the Russians have underestimated the response of the Ukrainians? What happened to their logistics? Logistics at the end of the day wins wars, and we are seeing Russian troops looting super markets because they are short on food. Vehicles are being abandoned or convoys are stopped because their fuel supplies cannot keep up. The Russians couldn't even keep their basics straight, and as @jhungary pointed out, their Senior Generals are coming to the frontlines and exposing themselves to fire thus increasing danger to themselves.

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## thetutle

Tamerlane said:


> How long before Russians are rounded up in concentration camps?


I would say there is a while to go yet. The Australian government has not even selected a location for the concentration camps yet.


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## Madni Bappa



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## zartosht

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500156105967685633
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500149030495608832
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500160597559848961
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500134424368848899


 
A major consequence of this war not being discussed? 

All these Nato countries openly supplying weapons that kill Russian soldiers. 

Can look forward to nasty surprises the next iraq/afghanistan misadventure they go on. 

I fully expect to see Russian atgms flooding the next war of aggression nato wages against some near defenceless country

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## PanzerKiel

notorious_eagle said:


> ER=143217]@jhungary[/USER] pointed out, their Senior Generals are coming to the frontlines and exposing themselves to fire thus increasing danger to themselves.


Isn't this a good thing, from a common soldier's point of view?

And then is it only Russians who have lost Generals at the frontlines? There are other great nations as well.

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## Zibago

jhungary said:


> Don't know about that, but we are definitely arming Latvia and Estonia, may not be nuclear tho, but we will see.


A question what aerial platforms will be provided to operators that only had experience with Soviet aircraft?


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## thetutle

zartosht said:


> A major consequence of this war not being discussed?
> 
> All these Nato countries openly supplying weapons that kill Russian soldiers.
> 
> Can look forward to nasty surprises the next iraq/afghanistan misadventure they go on.
> 
> I fully expect to see Russian atgms flooding the next war of aggression nato wages against some near defenceless country


True, but until then and endless supply of ATGM's and stingers are on their way to Ukraine.

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## gambit

Flight of falcon said:


> I gotta give it to the Western media and Ukrainian supporters . They have shamelessly propagate and peddled fake news like never before in the history .
> 
> Most of the videos are outright fake or exaggerated to say the least.
> 
> Western media created the fake news such as a 40 mile Russian convoy, which was once attacking Kiev , then bogged down , then ran out of fuel, then soldiers deserted and finally ambushed by the brave Ukrainians. The entire story is so outlandish and stupid that any one with an ounce of brain will not be able to stop shaking their heads in disbelief.
> 
> Western media deliberately created the hype that Russians are unable to take Kiev as if it was supposed to be a walk in the park. Ukraine had a large professional and well armed army. They are equally armed and trained as the Russians except they cannot match Russians in number . Ofcourse they were going to fight to death their equally trained and qualitatively equal army.
> 
> Why wouldn’t they ?
> 
> So the expectation Russia was to win the war in few days was a deliberate misinformation to create the sense that Russians are stalled and loosing.
> 
> *They are neither stalled nor loosing. They are deliberately and methodically moving and capturing area. Their goal is not to just capture the territory but to destroy and disarm Ukrainian army infrastructure . That they are doing well and moving slowly in the process .*
> 
> Yes in some places they are stalled but that is totally expected from a well armed enemy that is determined to defend their homeland .
> 
> The end is not in doubt. The question is how much Russians will destroy …. Both the military and civilian …. To teach their enemy a lesson.


So who is to say that is not fake news and propaganda from you? What if you are wrong?


----------



## K_Bin_W

zartosht said:


> I fully expect to see Russian atgms flooding the next war of aggression nato wages against some near defenceless country


I hope it happens and Russia MUST.


----------



## thetutle

K_Bin_W said:


> I hope it happens and Russia MUST.



Why doesn't Russia supply the Palestinians with some of their best weapons? lol because Russia lives Israel just a such as America.

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## 8888888888888

jhungary said:


> Mariupol is in contest, it's not under Russian control. And should have been under control on day 1 due to its proximity.
> 
> Also, Russian aggression route is actually quite slow, because their battleplan as Lukashenko leaked some days ago. Was to cut off Southern Ukraine and annex Eastern Ukraine along the line between Mariupol to Dnipro to Kyiv along the Dnieper River. To do that, Russia would need to take Kyiv, Dnipro, Mariupol and Odessa, none of them felt.
> 
> And the Russian advance is on 11 days, it already committed all tactic reserve, and troop rotation is coming in at 28 days limit by then Russia would need to put in Strategic Reserve, which I don't know if they have any. And then couple to the fact that 11 days in and none of the major city felt to Russia, this time table is not going to be Russian fan.
> 
> I will not say Ukrainian is winning, but Russian is not winning either.


Putin probably came up with a new plan.


----------



## kursed

PanzerKiel said:


> As far as I am concerned, the respect for Russian general staff is still there.
> 
> Our conclusions here are mostly based on whatever is available v on western media.
> 
> Equipment losses are in built in any war. Couple of tanks here, couple of aircraft there, c everyday, is always expected.
> 
> We have hardly seen any pics of Ukrainian dead, or their destroyed equipment. They say they are winning this. And every then, they are panicking.
> 
> Is not simple, it's not russia against Ukraine only. It's Russia against the whole NATO, look at the amount and quality of equipment and firepower being given to Ukrainians....


Ukrainians keep asking the West to implement an NFZ or to send them more aircraft - a big ask for a country that has in at least news media taken out half the applied Russian inventory. That in itself says a lot.

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## Clutch

zartosht said:


> A major consequence of this war not being discussed?
> 
> All these Nato countries openly supplying weapons that kill Russian soldiers.
> 
> Can look forward to nasty surprises the next iraq/afghanistan misadventure they go on.
> 
> I fully expect to see Russian atgms flooding the next war of aggression nato wages against some near defenceless country



Great point... I didn't think of this. But yes, definitely the Russians will arm to the teeth any opposition to Western misadventures in the middle East or any other region... They will not forget this....


----------



## Zibago

gambit said:


> But this invasion is not about nuclear weapons and Russia is not making the 'potential' argument. As far as the Iraq issue, there are more evident of a nuclear weapons program, which the IAEA put under the category of nuclear weapons, than Ukraine is a neo-Nazi state.
> 
> So here is the list of justifications that Poutine is using:
> 
> NATO membership
> Neo-Nazi
> Ethnic Russian oppression
> Ukraine is making fun of Russia
> Ukrainians are making fun of Poutine
> Zelensky is ugly
> Ukrainians chicks are hotter than Russian chicks
> Chicken Kyiv is better than borscht
> Ukrainian vodka is better than Russian vodka
> Ukrainian weather is better than Russian weather
> Am pretty sure the top three are the main reasons, and Poutine considered the rest.


Agree on point 7


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## mingle

kursed said:


> Ukrainians keep asking the West to implement an NFZ or to send them more aircraft - a big ask for a country that has in at least news media taken out half the applied Russian inventory. That in itself says a lot.


I read Russia now moving S400 inside Ukrain the area occupied and cleared by its forces that would be an interesting move if its true? Only realistic view came by Colonel MacGregor at fox about encirclement of 50/70K Ukrainain troops East of Dneiper by Russian forces

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## Patriot forever

zartosht said:


> A major consequence of this war not being discussed?
> 
> All these Nato countries openly supplying weapons that kill Russian soldiers.
> 
> Can look forward to nasty surprises the next iraq/afghanistan misadventure they go on.
> 
> I fully expect to see Russian atgms flooding the next war of aggression nato wages against some near defenceless country



Had the Taliban been given konkurs atgm and mordern manpads imagine what would they have done to the so called coalition, given what they achieved with RPG's.

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## Zibago

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> Not only that bro. It was Soviet Union who defeated colonialism. Thats a fact. Ask all Latin Americans and Africans. Even South Asia has a lot to thanks Soviet Union for when it comes to independence from colonialism.


Dude the Soviets raped and killed Musims right at our border and if you really want to give credit for decolonization give it to Nazis who weakened Britain so much that it had to let go

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## Clutch

Tamerlane said:


> It seems like the West has gone bananas. They've raised tensions so high that now the public is demanding military action from NATO. The Canadian PM, Trudeau, had to go out of his way to explain why a No Fly Zone wasn't a good idea.
> 
> Western politicians have painted themselves into a corner. To stay in power they have to appear tough. To appear tough they have to keep adding more and more pressure on Russia. There's already a witch hunt going on against Russians. How long before Russians are rounded up in concentration camps?
> 
> All these announcements about delivering weapons and mercenaries to Ukraine. Do they think that Russians don't watch the news? That's practically a declaration of war. A cornered animal is dangerous.
> 
> Whatever happens now, whoever wins, the time to Armageddon has been reduced drastically. There will now be an all-out race by everyone to acquire weapons, including nuclear, and then there will be the final showdown, sooner rather than later.




I don't know where you live... But in the entire West there is an explosion of White Nationalist (i.e. Nazi) rebirth. The old white imperialism is reborn as racist backlash to the societal, economic, cultural, and moral decline of the White working class.

The Canadian Freedom Rally, the Trumpism in USA, the French Islamapbobic Far Right, the British Brexit and growing xenophobia, the Ukrainian Nazi Normalization, etc. Etc. Is a manifestation of the rise of the bloodthirsty imperialist Westerner.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500353641227722755

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500251834040127494

Rubio is the Vice Chairman of the intel committee

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## mingle

Patriot forever said:


> Had the Taliban been given konkurs atgm and mordern manpads imagine what would they have done to the so called coalition, given what they achieved with RPG's.


Good point never thought about this


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## Clutch

Madni Bappa said:


> Damn big for habibis to be saying this.



What the say is for fools to consume.... What they do is more important.... The Habbibis will pump more and and gas and give it at discounted rates to the White masters.... 

Don't listen to the words a slave screams when whipped... Just make sure he obeys....


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## Ali_Baba

White House Says U.S., Poland Working on Warplanes for Ukraine


The U.S. is working with Poland and consulting with other NATO allies on possibly having those countries supply warplanes to Ukraine for use against Russian forces, a White House spokesperson said.




www.bloomberg.com


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## Joe Shearer

jhungary said:


> circumcising US sanction


'circumventing' US sanction 

reads better (pardon my venting, definitely preferable to my inciising).



Wood said:


> US should offer the same deal to India as well


Give up an a/c we know how to maintain, and acquire another that people across the border have been flying for donkeys' years? (yes, I saw the emoji).

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## mingle

Ali_Baba said:


> White House Says U.S., Poland Working on Warplanes for Ukraine
> 
> 
> The U.S. is working with Poland and consulting with other NATO allies on possibly having those countries supply warplanes to Ukraine for use against Russian forces, a White House spokesperson said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bloomberg.com


😂😂😂😂


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## SaadH

Iñigo said:


> Ukraine
> 
> *Ukraine is the final delirium of our colossal and deadly empire*
> 
> The terror suffered by the Ukrainians at the hands of the Bolsheviks and the terror suffered by the Yiddish people at the hands of the Ukrainians ...
> 
> ... Now it becomes the nostalgics of the 14th Waffen SS encouraged by the State Department where the four main positions are grandchildren of Ukrainians, Russians and Poles ... and financed by a clan of "our colonial project" (Jabotinsky) in "the land of Canaan" where several Russian-Polish-Ukrainian terrorist groups succeeded


Isn't it ironic 75% of Bolshevik leadership was Jewish. In fact Lazar Kaganovitch, also known as the "Jewish Himmler" was responsible for the holocaust against Ukrainian people in 1930s.


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## FairAndUnbiased

kursed said:


> Ukrainians keep asking the West to implement an NFZ or to send them more aircraft - a big ask for a country that has in at least news media taken out half the applied Russian inventory. That in itself says a lot.


they claim they're winning, so why the following actions:

1. Penal legions with released convicts
2. Arming random civilians like the Volkstrum
3. Breaking their own reservoir to flood an attack path
4. Asking for foreign volunteers and equipment
5. Asking for foreign intervention

None of these are signs of winning. Germans have done 1-2 when losing, Chinese have done 3-5 when losing.

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## Wood

Joe Shearer said:


> Give up an a/c we know how to maintain, and acquire another that people across the border have been flying for donkeys' years? (yes, I saw the emoji).


We cannot teach an old dog new tricks?!


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## Zibago

FairAndUnbiased said:


> they claim they're winning, so why the following actions:
> 
> 1. Penal legions with released convicts
> 2. Arming random civilians like the Volkstrum
> 3. Breaking their own reservoir to flood an attack path
> 4. Asking for foreign volunteers and equipment
> 5. Asking for foreign intervention
> 
> None of these are signs of winning. Germans have done 1-2 when losing, Chinese have done 3-5 when losing.


The arming of civilians in an ethnically contested area will have disastrous result
Yugoslavia will look like a minor scuffle

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## Oldman1

Clutch said:


> Great point... I didn't think of this. But yes, definitely the Russians will arm to the teeth any opposition to Western misadventures in the middle East or any other region... They will not forget this....


Yes and will never forget it either. Goes both ways.


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## jhungary

Joe Shearer said:


> 'circumventing' US sanction
> 
> reads better (pardon my venting, definitely preferable to my inciising).
> 
> 
> Give up an a/c we know how to maintain, and acquire another that people across the border have been flying for donkeys' years? (yes, I saw the emoji).


Yeah, just told the other guy this is a autocorrect problem, I don't know why Samsung did this to me, I don't know why they change it to that word tho, I don't need another one.

LOL

By the way, that is not the most failed autocorrect of all time I had experienced. I once had a girl facebook me a message wanting to have an interc.....(The one mean sex) with me, when she was asking for an interview....

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## Tamerlane



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## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> Like Russian news are more accurate .


Show me a trustworthy news outlet if you can.
But all aside do you believe western media portrayal of the reason for the war is true ?
What about portrayal or more exactly lack of portrayal of what happened in Donetsk and lohansk in last 7 year ?


----------



## jhungary

8888888888888 said:


> Putin probably came up with a new plan.


He can't, he has committed too deep into the original plan, he can change it, but he can't come up with a new plan.

The only way for him to implement a new plan is to pull every troop out, and then reset and plan for another operation. The Axis of attack, the use of force and the logistic commitment is already there, you can technically implementing a new plan but this will probably do more harm than good

Beside, what kind of plan did he have beside this? His plan is never a problem, the execution of said plan is.


----------



## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> He wanted to join NATO to prevent exactly that scenario . . .
> 
> And if he was in NATO this invasion would most likely would not have happened . . .
> 
> ~


And the scenario happened because of his wanting to join NATO ?
Or let say his policy in eastern Ukraine and wanting to join NATO.

More importantly he wanted to join NATO to stop this scenario or to get a more free hand in dealing with Russian minority in Ukraine.


----------



## jhungary

Zibago said:


> A question what aerial platforms will be provided to operators that only had experience with Soviet aircraft?


Possible Mig-29, Su-27 or Su-25. 

Those are the one that ex-soviet bloc member had.



tower9 said:


> At this point, this talk about what ground was captured or not is pointless. Russia is many times more powerful than Ukraine, of course, it will win the war. However, I just can't see how the world after this war would be more advantageous for Russia. I just don't see it. Does Putin have some ace up his sleeve that we don't know about or has he really gone nuts?


Well, if Putin have some trick up in his sleeve, he is not showing. 

And beside the economic stuff, everything I said WILL happen after Russia conquered and occupied Ukraine, which make people wonder why Putin is willing to do that.

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## Zibago

jhungary said:


> Possible Mig-29, Su-27 or Su-25.
> 
> Those are the one that ex-soviet bloc member had.


Do countries outside of Russia still produce them or is the policy just to upgrade older platforms? I mean Germany is getting new F-35 just for the Russian threat will eastern Europe countries too get newer platforms?


----------



## Brainsucker

Mod, I think that we have change this thread title to : Russian - Ukraine; Bickering and troll war. Because that title fit more than news & development. I come here to read the news and development of the war, but what I see is never ending troll wars and OOT in here.

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## jhungary

lol........saw an local news article today, the editor spell "ruble" or "rouble" to rubble......


----------



## Zibago

jhungary said:


> Well, if Putin have some trick up in his sleeve, he is not showing.









Brainsucker said:


> Mod, I think that we have change this thread title to : Russian - Ukraine; Bickering and troll war. Because that title fit more than news & development. I come here to read the news and development of the war, but what I see is never ending troll wars and OOT in here.


Most people have picked sides

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## jhungary

Zibago said:


> Do countries outside of Russia still produce them or is the policy just to upgrade older platforms? I mean Germany is getting new F-35 just for the Russian threat will eastern Europe countries too get newer platforms?


Just older upgraded stuff, Russia had keep supplying parts to EU nation who flew them. There are a few of them are still frontline fighter (Bulgaria for example).

Germany is getting F-35 because they think they needed that to counter Russian threat, I don't think Germany still fly old Soviet AIrcraft, think they have Eurofighter for it and possibly some tornado. Poland, Bulgaria, Hungary probably still have legacy Soviet fighter in service.



Zibago said:


> Most people have picked sides


That did nothing but increase financial burden when they eventually captured those city (as they are going to need to rebuild it) and piss off the local population. 

It's like American in Iraq and Afghanistan, the more you bomb the people, the more they hated you, and the more they resist, and in turn, you bomb them some more.....

There are going to be an insurgency we are looking at. That is almost certain at this point.


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Possible Mig-29, Su-27 or Su-25.
> 
> Those are the one that ex-soviet bloc member had.


The question is how to gave them in enough number to have effect. Ukraine had many of those but it took two to three days for them to get neutralized.

And again I say what I believe you can't win against Russia by Russian weaponry and you can't win against USA by American weaponry and you can't win against china by Chinese weaponary.if you want to see effect you must send in western airplane and then pop up the bigger question of who gonna pilot them


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## Oldman1

Hack-Hook said:


> The question is how to gave them in enough number to have effect. Ukraine had many of those but it took two to three days for them to get neutralized.
> 
> And again I say what I believe you can't win against Russia by Russian weaponry and you can't win against USA by American weaponry and you can't win against china by Chinese weaponary.if you want to see effect you must send in western airplane and then pop up the bigger question of who gonna pilot them


Neutralize? Who says anything about neutralize. Didn't the Russians claim they shot down a handful Ukrainian jets yesterday? Ukraine lost aircraft but their air force is not neutralized.


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> The question is how to gave them in enough number to have effect. Ukraine had many of those but it took two to three days for them to get neutralized.
> 
> And again I say what I believe you can't win against Russia by Russian weaponry and you can't win against USA by American weaponry and you can't win against china by Chinese weaponary.if you want to see effect you must send in western airplane and then pop up the bigger question of who gonna pilot them



Well this is not about winning or losing, this is about Ukrainian sapping Russian strength and morale and in wait for a certain insurgency. As I said before, even with those blunder, there are virtually no way Ukraine can win a war with Russia when they are next door. (I believe I said 80% Russia will win on day 7, the probability to win is 80% when I said it on day 7, not80% they will win on day 7)

The question now is how demoralise Russian troop is going to be when they win, this factor dictate the tempo of the coming insurgency. The key is going to be how Ukrainian don't want to be Russian, the more they bomb and the more the Russia engage and attack in Civilian sector, the more they are pulling away from Russian.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> , if Putin have some trick up in his sleeve, he is not showing.
> 
> And beside the economic stuff, everything I said WILL happen after Russia conquered and occupied Ukraine, which make people wonder why Putin is willing to do that.


Well there is still the option of targeting civilians like how NATO do it and blame it on bad Intel . Hope it don't come to that and always there is the option of good old fashioned carpet bombing and interestingly Russia inventory of iron bombs are a lot more suitable for that approach.



Oldman1 said:


> Neutralize? Who says anything about neutralize. Didn't the Russians claim they shot down a handful Ukrainian jets yesterday? Ukraine lost aircraft but their air force is not neutralized.


I don't see them in sky so whatever happened to them they are effectively neutralized. Just like Saddam air force buried under sand


----------



## Oldman1

Hack-Hook said:


> I don't see them in sky so whatever happened to them they are effectively neutralized. Just like Saddam air force buried under sand


But the Russians...they claimed they shot down a handful of Ukrainian jets yesterday...


----------



## Zibago

jhungary said:


> Just older upgraded stuff, Russia had keep supplying parts to EU nation who flew them. There are a few of them are still frontline fighter (Bulgaria for example).


Those jets are already showing their age not sure it would be wise of NATO alliance to keep their frontline states so underequipped 
I heard Poland was offered F-16 but I am not sure if that is an actual proposal or just chatter to keep Russia on edge


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> Well there is still the option of targeting civilians like how NATO do it and blame it on bad Intel . Hope it don't come to that and always there is the option of good old fashioned carpet bombing and interestingly Russia inventory of iron bombs are a lot more suitable for that approach.
> 
> 
> I don't see them in sky so whatever happened to them they are effectively neutralized. Just like Saddam air force buried under sond


This is not about NATO or Russian perspective, this may work on the outside third party (like you and me) but it won't work in Ukraine, because you are bombing them, anything you said is going to be an excuse, would you think it is normal for Ukrainian look at the Russian after they bomb their apartment build and said "Aim better next time?"


----------



## Zibago

jhungary said:


> That did nothing but increase financial burden when they eventually captured those city (as they are going to need to rebuild it) and piss off the local population.


The thing is I think Putin will cause destruction in Keiv and after causing a lot of destruction they will create a buffer state where ethnic Russians will be used as proxies to control that region


jhungary said:


> It's like American in Iraq and Afghanistan, the more you bomb the people, the more they hated you, and the more they resist, and in turn, you bomb them some more.....


They dont want to win hearts and minds they jsut want to weaken Ukraine to such a degree that it barely functions and I do think that post war Ukraine will be in a horrible state with so much of its coast turned into a warzone


----------



## jhungary

Zibago said:


> Those jets are already showing their age not sure it would be wise of NATO alliance to keep their frontline states so underequipped
> I heard Poland was offered F-16 but I am not sure if that is an actual proposal or just chatter to keep Russia on edge


Well, they needed money to buy more advance jet, everyone want the latest and most expensive stuff, but can they afford them is another issue. And traditional EU country do not care about their Military to invest in it, they have been neglecting that for a very long time, and this war is going to make EU people think Europe is not secure as they think, not at all. 

That is why all the money coming in.

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## thetutle

Hack-Hook said:


> The question is how to gave them in enough number to have effect. Ukraine had many of those but it took two to three days for them to get neutralized.
> 
> And again I say what I believe you can't win against Russia by Russian weaponry and you can't win against USA by American weaponry and you can't win against china by Chinese weaponary.if you want to see effect you must send in western airplane and then pop up the bigger question of who gonna pilot them



these old fighters wont defeat Russia all by themselves. But before they are destroyed they will cause some damage to Russia and prolog this thing a little longer. The aim is to drag this thing out until Russia collapses or gives up.


----------



## Oldman1

Zibago said:


> Those jets are already showing their age not sure it would be wise of NATO alliance to keep their frontline states so underequipped
> I heard Poland was offered F-16 but I am not sure if that is an actual proposal or just chatter to keep Russia on edge


It may be an alliance but its not like all the countries have a hundred billion dollar budget. Britain for example have a hard time keeping a tank force. Not sure why they trying to keep upgrading them when they are reducing them in large numbers.


----------



## jhungary

Zibago said:


> The thing is I think Putin will cause destruction in Keiv and after causing a lot of destruction they will create a buffer state where ethnic Russians will be used as proxies to control that region
> 
> They dont want to win hearts and minds they jsut want to weaken Ukraine to such a degree that it barely functions and I do think that post war Ukraine will be in a horrible state with so much of its coast turned into a warzone


They do if they have to deal with insurgency.

The formula is simple, the more you have done to deal damage on the country, the more they are going to fight back, the time of the losing side kowtow to the winner is long gone, we have not fought any war like that since 1982 when British fought the Argentinian in Falklands, and that's because the local population is basically British...


----------



## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Well, they needed money to buy more advance jet, everyone want the latest and most expensive stuff, but can they afford them is another issue. And traditional EU country do not care about their Military to invest in it, they have been neglecting that for a very long time, and this war is going to make EU people think Europe is not secure as they think, not at all.
> 
> That is why all the money coming in.


The irony of being NATO has made them complacent.


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Well this is not about winning or losing, this is about Ukrainian sapping Russian strength and morale and in wait for a certain insurgency. As I said before, even with those blunder, there are virtually no way Ukraine can win a war with Russia when they are next door. (I believe I said 80% Russia will win on day 7, the probability to win is 80% when I said it on day 7, not80% they will win on day 7)
> 
> The question now is how demoralise Russian troop is going to be when they win, this factor dictate the tempo of the coming insurgency. The key is going to be how Ukrainian don't want to be Russian, the more they bomb and the more the Russia engage and attack in Civilian sector, the more they are pulling away from Russian.


If you want to demoralizing Russia the way is popping them with sniper weapon antimaterial rifle ,atgm and Man-Pads that's what make an effective insurgency.
Sending airplanes that will get destroyed only increase the morals . Just think about the photos of destroyed western supplied airplanes on Russian medias . To me they act as moral booster . But even you capture 90 percent of those I said it won't increase moral as much they are just some guns in untrained eyes . But the casualties they can inflict are devastating to moral of the Frontline and back home.


----------



## Zibago

jhungary said:


> Well, they needed money to buy more advance jet, everyone want the latest and most expensive stuff, but can they afford them is another issue. And traditional EU country do not care about their Military to invest in it, they have been neglecting that for a very long time, and this war is going to make EU people think Europe is not secure as they think, not at all.
> 
> That is why all the money coming in.


With all this ramping up of military spending i Eastern Europe it would be interesting to see which platforms they choose for modernization of their airforce as I dont think they can continue with older migs for long



Hack-Hook said:


> antibacterial rifle


What?

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> these old fighters wont defeat Russia all by themselves. But before they are destroyed they will cause some damage to Russia and prolog this thing a little longer. The aim is to drag this thing out until Russia collapses or gives up.


A lot of battle Ukrainian fought is either a spoiling attack or delay action. That show you how they think they win their war....


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## Hack-Hook

Oldman1 said:


> But the Russians...they claimed they shot down a handful of Ukrainian jets yesterday...


Don't play coy with me you very well knew right now Ukrainian air force is only consist of some flags and not operating bases


----------



## That Guy

Hack-Hook said:


> Well there is still the option of targeting civilians like how NATO do it and blame it on bad Intel . Hope it don't come to that and always there is the option of good old fashioned carpet bombing and interestingly Russia inventory of iron bombs are a lot more suitable for that approach.
> 
> 
> I don't see them in sky so whatever happened to them they are effectively neutralized. Just like Saddam air force buried under sand


Are you in Ukraine? No? Then don't base your opinion on tweets and a handful of videos/pictures.

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> If you want to demoralizing Russia the way is popping them with sniper weapon antibacterial rifle ,atgm and Man-Pads that's what make an effective insurgency.
> Sending airplanes that will get destroyed only increase the morals . Just think about the photos of destroyed western supplied airplanes on Russian medias . To me they act as moral booster . But even you capture 90 percent of those I said it won't increase moral as much they are just some guns in untrained eyes . But the casualties they can inflict are devastating to moral of the Frontline and back home.


Sending airplane *NOW* when there are still a conventional war going on. That in turn sap Russian morale when they carry into the insurgency...

Of course when you are dealing with an insurgency, you sent them C4 so they can make IED, AT weapon and Manpad is a must, which is also what they are giving to the Ukrainian now...


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## Oldman1

Zibago said:


> With all this ramping up of military spending i Eastern Europe it would be interesting to see which platforms they choose for modernization of their airforce as I dont think they can continue with older migs for long
> 
> 
> What?


Funny enough, they will start making or allowing weapons that Russia fear the most, IRBMs or ground based cruise missiles as well as drones and fighter jets.


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> Don't play coy with me you very well knew right now Ukrainian air force is only consist of some flags and not operating bases



Actually, Russia surprisingly did not destroy/capture many airfield, a lot of them are still intact, I have logged on Satellite feed last night and saw the Satellite image myself, I would have show you if I can find some commercial Satellite image (Can't show you those I saw)

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## Oldman1

Zibago said:


> What?


He's saying anti material rifle.

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## That Guy

Hack-Hook said:


> Don't play coy with me you very well knew right now Ukrainian air force is only consist of some flags and not operating bases


Lol.

This is the 8th time the Russians have completely neutralized the UkrAF since the war started, according to russophiles.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> This is not about NATO or Russian perspective, this may work on the outside third party (like you and me) but it won't work in Ukraine, because you are bombing them, anything you said is going to be an excuse, would you think it is normal for Ukrainian look at the Russian after they bomb their apartment build and said "Aim better next time?"


The apartment bombing can be two edged sword it can rally your opponent it can destroy their morals it all come to the opponent itself . 
It's a gamble one may take the result uncertain but it's a hypothetical option


----------



## jhungary

Zibago said:


> With all this ramping up of military spending i Eastern Europe it would be interesting to see which platforms they choose for modernization of their airforce as I dont think they can continue with older migs for long
> 
> 
> What?


Yeah, that's why they are getting rid of those, but then it take time to train on Western fighter, so they may keep it for a little longer..



Oldman1 said:


> The irony of being NATO has made them complacent.


Yeah, as the BBC headline said

Russia has made NATO great again....

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## Hack-Hook

thetutle said:


> these old fighters wont defeat Russia all by themselves. But before they are destroyed they will cause some damage to Russia and prolog this thing a little longer. The aim is to drag this thing out until Russia collapses or gives up.


If they don't get ambushed before reaching Ukraine didn't you read the news Russia send s400 into ukraine


----------



## Joe Shearer

PanzerKiel said:


> As far as I am concerned, the respect for Russian general staff is still there.
> 
> Our conclusions here are mostly based on whatever is available v on western media.
> 
> Equipment losses are in built in any war. Couple of tanks here, couple of aircraft there, c everyday, is always expected.
> 
> We have hardly seen any pics of Ukrainian dead, or their destroyed equipment. They say they are winning this. And every then, they are panicking.
> 
> Is not simple, it's not russia against Ukraine only. It's Russia against the whole NATO, look at the amount and quality of equipment and firepower being given to Ukrainians....





notorious_eagle said:


> Hon @Joe Shearer @PanzerKiel @jhungary
> 
> I agree with the notion that we have been flooded with Pro Ukrainian propaganda and the West is doing everything in its power to promote the notion that Ukraine is winning and will be at the gates of Moscow soon. We know that's not true and eventually the Russians will win using brute force. I think this map is a great illustration that despite the Social Media, the Russian pincers are advancing and soon they will trap Ukraine's most battle hardened troops in the East and surround Kiev as well. They are setting up their FOB's near Kiev as we speak.
> 
> View attachment 821204
> 
> 
> But my point still remains, how could the Russians have underestimated the response of the Ukrainians? What happened to their logistics? Logistics at the end of the day wins wars, and we are seeing Russian troops looting super markets because they are short on food. Vehicles are being abandoned or convoys are stopped because their fuel supplies cannot keep up. The Russians couldn't even keep their basics straight, and as @jhungary pointed out, their Senior Generals are coming to the frontlines and exposing themselves to fire thus increasing danger to themselves.





PanzerKiel said:


> Isn't this a good thing, from a common soldier's point of view?
> 
> And then is it only Russians who have lost Generals at the frontlines? There are other great nations as well.



As we peer through the fog of war (a not very popular Pakistani military analyst known for his acid tongue believes that this is caused by incompetent senior leadership, and has little to do with inevitability), certain trends seem to be emerging:

The Russians are IN Ukraine;
NATO and others sympathetic are OUTSIDE Ukraine;
The Ukrainian armed forces have not pushed out any Russians; they have killed an admitted 500 and injured thrice that number, but the juggernaut keeps rolling over them;
The south and the east of Ukraine are no longer being reported very much, and that probably means that the Russians no longer have organised resistance in those two sectors;
NATO is trying to flood the Ukraine with weaponry, particularly individual soldiers' weaponry; they still haven't found Charlie Wilson;
They still haven't realised that the Ukrainian is neither an Afghan nor a Chechen; that is not to strike a false religious note, nor to discount the fierce resistance put up by the Ukrainian SSR as a part of the USSR in their Great Patriotic War.
The prognosis:


A Russian victory;
A western media offensive fiercely denying that there has been any kind of victory;
A contradictory western media offensive, illuminating the great resistance put up by brave Ukrainians against the failed Soviet effort, their non-victory (the Ukrainians need to sit down with Tibetan refugees over a mug of butter-tea);
Intermittent hit-and-run raids that will be countered by vigilante action by Russian-speaking volunteers from the eastern provinces that have been declared independent;
A thinning-out of the Russian military, and a significant increase in Russian air activity, as the Russians begin to traverse the same trajectory that the US and NATO followed in Afghanistan;
The Ukraine in ruins; Russia in ruins; a few thousand Indian unfortunates beggared as their parents' financial sacrifices to give them professional educations are flushed down the drain.
The rest, after the clear-sighted insights offered by @notorious_eagle and @PanzerKiel, can only meaningfully extend to lessons to be learnt; in this case, lessons to be learnt by India.

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> The apartment bombing can be two edged sword it can rally your opponent it can destroy their morals it all come to the opponent itself .
> It's a gamble one may take the result uncertain but it's a hypothetical option


That's just an random example. 

When you destroy enough civilian infrastructure, people are going to stand against you, this is not an uncertainty, this is a guarantee, we saw that from every insurgency since the Trouble all the way to Taliban insurgency.


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## Joe Shearer

Zibago said:


> What?



 autocorrect, treating the poor man's efforts at gasping out the phrase 'anti-materiel rifle' with the same clinical cruelty with which it, aah, circumscribed @jhungary (oh, that was a low blow!).

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## Viet

FairAndUnbiased said:


> they claim they're winning, so why the following actions:
> 
> 1. Penal legions with released convicts
> 2. Arming random civilians like the Volkstrum
> 3. Breaking their own reservoir to flood an attack path
> 4. Asking for foreign volunteers and equipment
> 5. Asking for foreign intervention
> 
> None of these are signs of winning. Germans have done 1-2 when losing, Chinese have done 3-5 when losing.


What do you expect?
Russia wages a war of annihilation. Putin wants to erase Ukraine from the map. Should the Ukrainians greet the invaders with flowers instead of Molotov cocktail? Ukraine wages a total war. That’s justified.
What if Japan invades China again?
What would you do?
Kiss the Japanese?


----------



## thetutle

Hack-Hook said:


> If you want to demoralizing Russia the way is popping them with sniper weapon antibacterial rifle ,atgm and Man-Pads that's what make an effective insurgency.
> Sending airplanes that will get destroyed only increase the morals . Just think about the photos of destroyed western supplied airplanes on Russian medias . To me they act as moral booster . But even you capture 90 percent of those I said it won't increase moral as much they are just some guns in untrained eyes . But the casualties they can inflict are devastating to moral of the Frontline and back home.


We are already giving them all that. 

every new mig 29 for Ukraine gives them a platform that can deliver 4,000 kg on target. Thats like 8 ballistic missiles that Iran boasts about, per mission. 

How many columns of armour or trucks can that take out? So even if those migs fly one mission its worth it. Not to mention how many helicopters it can take out. 

I would be surprised if NATO has the nerve to supply them with those new migs.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Zibago said:


> With all this ramping up of military spending i Eastern Europe it would be interesting to see which platforms they choose for modernization of their airforce as I dont think they can continue with older migs for long
> 
> 
> What?


If they care about Europe they choose Grippen or eurofighter if they want their air force consist of 10 airplane they choose f35 
But honestly if it was up to me and I'd have their budget. I'd have selected Grippen as it's a fairly modern airplane that can keep itself against more expensive airplanes like Rafael and Eurofighter and Su-35 and Sweden term for providing it can't be rivalled by anyone else .


----------



## thetutle

Hack-Hook said:


> If they don't get ambushed before reaching Ukraine didn't you read the news Russia send s400 into ukraine



Read my reply above. BTW, do these S400's operate over national borders? how are they suddenly effective only once they cross into Ukraine? can't they be used from Russian now to give coverage over Ukraine?

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## 1ndy

zartosht said:


> A major consequence of this war not being discussed?
> 
> All these Nato countries openly supplying weapons that kill Russian soldiers.
> 
> Can look forward to nasty surprises the next iraq/afghanistan misadventure they go on.
> 
> I fully expect to see Russian atgms flooding the next war of aggression nato wages against some near defenceless country


There only problem here is that, Russian weaponry seems not to be working as expected.


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## Hack-Hook

That Guy said:


> Are you in Ukraine? No? Then don't base your opinion on tweets and a handful of videos/pictures.


So you claim Ukraine air force outside some drone is still operational ?

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## 1ndy

1ndy said:


> There only problem here is that, Russian weaponry seems not to be working as expected.


Another problem is that, Russians can't supply to its own military inside a bordering country... How do you think they can flood atgms in a country far from their borders.

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## Oldman1

thetutle said:


> I would be surprised if NATO has the nerve to supply them with those new migs.


Just paint them in Ukrainian colors and claim the Ukrainian pilots did the Firefox move...

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## That Guy

Hack-Hook said:


> So you claim Ukraine air force outside some drone is still operational ?


No, I'm not making any claims like that. That's you putting words in my mouth.


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## NA71

jhungary said:


> Yeah, that's why they are getting rid of those, but then it take time to train on Western fighter, so they may keep it for a little longer..
> 
> 
> Yeah, as the BBC headline said
> 
> Russia has made NATO great again....


What great???? Bunch of timids... 😁

Try NFZ..... Phir Mano ga.....


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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Actually, Russia surprisingly did not destroy/capture many airfield, a lot of them are still intact, I have logged on Satellite feed last night and saw the Satellite image myself, I would have show you if I can find some commercial Satellite image (Can't show you those I saw)


It's not important if the hanger and runways are intact honestly even USA can't destroy runways of a determined enemy . But an airfield is more than that what about radars ,refueling and maintenance facilities , weapons ?


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## NA71

War is serious business..... NATO is composed of all non serious


----------



## Joe Shearer

Wood said:


> We cannot teach an old dog new tricks?!


Don't EVER estimate the day-to-day bungles that take place.

One of the most interesting jobs that we took up for the IAF was an audio-visual to teach maintenance crew how to service ejection seats without getting their hands blown off.

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## Oldman1

Hack-Hook said:


> So you claim Ukraine air force outside some drone is still operational ?


Russians could have claim handful of drones shot down instead of claiming handful of SU-27s shot down.


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## Hack-Hook

thetutle said:


> We are already giving them all that.
> 
> every new mig 29 for Ukraine gives them a platform that can deliver 4,000 kg on target. Thats like 8 ballistic missiles that Iran boasts about, per mission.
> 
> How many columns of armour or trucks can that take out? So even if those migs fly one mission its worth it. Not to mention how many helicopters it can take out.
> 
> I would be surprised if NATO has the nerve to supply them with those new migs.


Depend on how many su 35 take of to intercept them how many su 30 and how many Russian mig 29 . Also how many s400 and buk will paint them


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## Oldman1

1ndy said:


> Another problem is that, Russians can't supply to its own military inside a bordering country... How do you think they can flood atgms in a country far from their borders.


Easy, arms dealers when delivering overseas. Here next to home they don't have to deal with that.


----------



## LeGenD

Tamerlane said:


> Leaving aside Muslims for a moment, let's discuss the concept of right and wrong. We're told to speak the truth even in front of a tyrant, promote what is right and forbid what is wrong, do justice even if we hate someone.
> 
> Where is the justice in what is happening? Both Ukraine and Russia are victims of this. Russians were being killed non-stop for the last eight years. This guy, Zelensky, was baiting Russia on behalf of his foreign masters into attacking Ukraine. Now he's promoting as much death and destruction as he can.
> 
> What is the West doing for Ukraine? Encouraging Zelensky to keep fighting. Sending weapons and mercenaries so that the war goes on no matter how many Ukrainians are killed.
> 
> Russia was practically begging the West to accept them, but they refused. Now they're demonizing Russians all over the world, seizing their property, firing them from jobs, trying to create unrest in Russia. Is this fair and just?
> 
> If for no other reason, just for the sake of justice I would support Russia in this fiasco.


Russia invaded and annexed parts of Ukraine in 2014. 









Revisiting the 2014 Annexation of Crimea


By reminding themselves of 2014’s sequence of events, and of Crimea’s long and varied history, observers can avoid buying into the Russian narrative that legitimizes the annexation.




carnegieeurope.eu













Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





This is the reason why Zelensky turned to NATO for support. What else could he do?

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## TNT

gambit said:


> Still a lot better than your Pakistan.
> 
> 
> Was geolocation specified in your criticism? You made a blanket assertion that the mere option of NATO nukes in Ukraine justified Russia invasion. Yeah...Am not even trying.



So u have become so desperate that now u compare a so called superpower with a 3rd world country Pakistan lolz. I can understand ur hatred, afterall we shafted u good in Afghanistan and u didnt even realize it untill it was too late lolz, poor superpower lost in the woods. 
You obviously lack common sense so its useless to argue with u. If today China or Russia gives cuba the "option" of having nukes, will the US allow it? Providing an "option" means opening a door to an opportunity, something not acceptable to Russia, or for that matter to any big power. What is the guarantee that Ukraine after joining NATO will not allow NATO nukes on its territory? You are doing nothing but embarrassing urself in this thread and jumping around like a propaganda zombie with zero facts or common sense. Anyways ur entertaining us atleast.

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## Hack-Hook

LeGenD said:


> Russia invaded and annexed parts of Ukraine in 2014. This is the reason why Zelensky turned to NATO for support.


That happened after some people overthrow the legal Ukraine government and the new government banned Russian language in Russian majority area . What you expected happen after the Russians there said no and Kiev wanted to play heavy handedly .


----------



## jhungary

notorious_eagle said:


> Hon @Joe Shearer @PanzerKiel @jhungary
> 
> I agree with the notion that we have been flooded with Pro Ukrainian propaganda and the West is doing everything in its power to promote the notion that Ukraine is winning and will be at the gates of Moscow soon. We know that's not true and eventually the Russians will win using brute force. I think this map is a great illustration that despite the Social Media, the Russian pincers are advancing and soon they will trap Ukraine's most battle hardened troops in the East and surround Kiev as well. They are setting up their FOB's near Kiev as we speak.
> 
> View attachment 821204
> 
> 
> But my point still remains, how could the Russians have underestimated the response of the Ukrainians? What happened to their logistics? Logistics at the end of the day wins wars, and we are seeing Russian troops looting super markets because they are short on food. Vehicles are being abandoned or convoys are stopped because their fuel supplies cannot keep up. The Russians couldn't even keep their basics straight, and as @jhungary pointed out, their Senior Generals are coming to the frontlines and exposing themselves to fire thus increasing danger to themselves.


To start, you cannot fight a war without the media on your side. Even with crazy dictator like Kim Jong family (That's why he has not done anything since Korean War to restart hostilities) and while you can control your own media, like what Russia did to its own domestic media and what China did to theirs. you cannot control the international view. And that is probably what counts at this point. 

To be quite fair, before this, the last news we have in the US about Russia is the Trump Russian election scandal (Or the Russian skater issue but not everyone follow sport so that didn't count), and there are virtually no news on Russia where I am now (Australia) The West don't really care about Russia that much until either they become a big hero, or big villain or big laughing stock. Which make this an opportunities to vilify and the Media jump on the band wagon. Result? The world isolate Russia, and supporting Ukraine. Which is something EU and NATO otherwise will not do. Why? They didn't care enough to care about Ukraine NATO or EU membership since 2014, why would they care about them if not for this war?

That is my opinion on the media angle.

As for the Combat Plan and the problem with Russian Military, before all these started military pundit all have their say on whether or not Russia indeed capable to pull this 3 prongs war. The Logistic undertaking is enormous if you compare the US invasion in Iraq and this invasion, we barely made the invasion without overstretching our supply line, and we are doing the invasion on a single direct multi-prong attack. Which mean even if we have different route of invasion, the supply issue is going to be the same, and the same with other combat support service. We don't need to break into 3 sector for support and air defence, we don't need to dilute our troop while maintain a reasonable pace for our invasion. Result is we manage to keep our troop in one piece until it reaches the branching out point when we have to. And once that was done, we would also have set up Logistic Depot along our axis of invasion, that is how you get your force resupply and not bring stuff from staging area like the Russian is doing with the 40 mile convoy right now.

The issue here with the Russia is 2 fold, they break up too many force and do not have a clear plan to resupply it, nor within a schedule to resupply, kind of like what happened to the US and UK troop during Operation Market Garden. And most of that is because they don't have enough time to prepare, a general invasion like this take years, to undertake. That is the military side of the problem. 

The leadership problem is another issue, Putin, being a former KGB (something I can relate to) means he is more of a surgical guy instead of a broadsword kind of guy. That is the trait of a spy, you see things from the outside and pinpoint your problem and focus on that, and leave before you get caught without any consequence. That did not translate well in a general invasion like this, you want to use Brute Force as soon as possible, as frequent as possible because your job is to overcome the defender, not to put some bomb in the right place and start a regime change. That is probably the reason why Putin is underestimating the Ukrainian, he run into a commander illusion, which he largely depends on his initial plan fall into place and everything goes according to his plan, again, this is a trait of a person who is meticulous and like things in control. But everyone been in war knows, no plan survive the first contact with the enemy. Notice that he is using the same template he had when he successfully annex Crimea, he is thinking why not do this again?

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## Oldman1

LeGenD said:


> Russia invaded and annexed parts of Ukraine in 2014.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Revisiting the 2014 Annexation of Crimea
> 
> 
> By reminding themselves of 2014’s sequence of events, and of Crimea’s long and varied history, observers can avoid buying into the Russian narrative that legitimizes the annexation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> carnegieeurope.eu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the reason why Zelensky turned to NATO for support. What else could he do?


Could have surrendered as most posters here said.


----------



## LeGenD

Hack-Hook said:


> That happened after some people overthrow the legal Ukraine government and the new government banned Russian language in Russian majority area . What you expected happen after the Russians there said no and Kiev wanted to play heavy handedly .


This is a misconception. The older Ukraine government lost ground in elections due to charges of corruption in large part. Recheck my previous post - I have added sources in it.

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## Hack-Hook

Oldman1 said:


> Russians could have claim handful of drones shot down instead of claiming handful of SU-27s shot down.


Honestly I don't knew what Russia destroyed or what it didn't . But what I see in that Ukraine stopped flying it's air force . So what ever Russia did effectively eliminated Ukraine air force just like how Saddam air force get eliminated.


----------



## Domobran7

The most important lesson of the war:








Promises Cannot Replace Weapons


I am not sure whether this is widely known, but Ukraine in fact used to have nuclear warheads. As Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union, it used to have significant elements of Soviet nuclear arsena…




historyandwarfare.wordpress.com

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> It's not important if the hanger and runways are intact honestly even USA can't destroy runways of a determined enemy . But an airfield is more than that what about radars ,refueling and maintenance facilities , weapons ?


Supply is mobile, you can bring a fuel truck and stash weapon and munition off site in their designated weapon cache, this is what most military do, as for losing facilities, you don't really need state of the art equipment to guide, lunch and receive aircraft. 

Just for a quick read, you should read up what USAF Combat Control Team do.









United States Air Force Combat Control Team - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Hack-Hook

LeGenD said:


> This is a misconception. The older Ukraine government lost ground in elections due to charges of corruption in large part. Recheck my previous post - I have added sources in it.


And you claim the ban on Russian language was also a myth , the attack on Russian speaking area was also a myth

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> To start, you cannot fight a war without the media on your side. Even with crazy dictator like Kim Jong family (That's why he has not done anything since Korean War to restart hostilities) and while you can control your own media, like what Russia did to its own domestic media and what China did to theirs. you cannot control the international view. And that is probably what counts at this point.
> 
> To be quite fair, before this, the last news we have in the US about Russia is the Trump Russian election scandal (Or the Russian skater issue but not everyone follow sport so that didn't count), and there are virtually no news on Russia where I am now (Australia) The West don't really care about Russia that much until either they become a big hero, or big villain or big laughing stock. Which make this an opportunities to vilify and the Media jump on the band wagon. Result? The world isolate Russia, and supporting Ukraine. Which is something EU and NATO otherwise will not do. Why? They didn't care enough to care about Ukraine NATO or EU membership since 2014, why would they care about them if not for this war?
> 
> That is my opinion on the media angle.
> 
> As for the Combat Plan and the problem with Russian Military, before all these started military pundit all have their say on whether or not Russia indeed capable to pull this 3 prongs war. The Logistic undertaking is enormous if you compare the US invasion in Iraq and this invasion, we barely made the invasion without overstretching our supply line, and we are doing the invasion on a single direct multi-prong attack. Which mean even if we have different route of invasion, the supply issue is going to be the same, and the same with other combat support service. We don't need to break into 3 sector for support and air defence, we don't need to dilute our troop while maintain a reasonable pace for our invasion. Result is we manage to keep our troop in one piece until it reaches the branching out point when we have to. And once that was done, we would also have set up Logistic Depot along our axis of invasion, that is how you get your force resupply and not bring stuff from staging area like the Russian is doing with the 40 mile convoy right now.
> 
> The issue here with the Russia is 2 fold, they break up too many force and do not have a clear plan to resupply it, nor within a schedule to resupply, kind of like what happened to the US and UK troop during Operation Market Garden. And most of that is because they don't have enough time to prepare, a general invasion like this take years, to undertake. That is the military side of the problem.
> 
> The leadership problem is another issue, Putin, being a former KGB (something I can relate to) means he is more of a surgical guy instead of a broadsword kind of guy. That is the trait of a spy, you see things from the outside and pinpoint your problem and focus on that, and leave before you get caught without any consequence. That did not translate well in a general invasion like this, you want to use Brute Force as soon as possible, as frequent as possible because your job is to overcome the defender, not to put some bomb in the right place and start a regime change. That is probably the reason why Putin is underestimating the Ukrainian, he run into a commander illusion, which he largely depends on his initial plan fall into place and everything goes according to his plan, again, this is a trait of a person who is meticulous and like things in control. But everyone been in war knows, no plan survive the first contact with the enemy. Notice that he is using the same template he had when he successfully annex Crimea, he is thinking why not do this again?











"Ambiguous" Warfare Buys Upgrade Time for Russia's Military


While playing catch-up on technology, Russia opts for cyber attacks, disinformation and other shadowy ways to fight a war with—and sometimes without—plausible deniability




www.scientificamerican.com




Upgrade Time for Russia's Military​While playing catch-up on technology, Russia opts for cyber attacks, disinformation and other shadowy ways to fight a war with—and sometimes without—plausible deniability


By Jeremy Hsu on August 12, 2014
*Showing its age*
"The need to modernize the Russian military became clear during the nation's short, sharp war with neighboring Georgia in 2008. “While Russia’s victory in the Russo-Georgian War was convincing, it still highlighted deficiencies in how the Russian army was armed and equipped,” says Keir Giles, a director of the Conflict Studies Research Center at Chatham House in London. Russia relied more on the shock of overwhelming force rather than the sophisticated use of military intelligence and combined arms, according to a U.S. Army War College Strategic Studies Institute report. For instance, Russia lost a Tu-22 bomber during a reconnaissance mission because its forces lacked drones and satellite imagery to conduct surveillance safely. The incomplete state of Russia’s own global navigation satellite system at the time meant its air force could not effectively use guided bombs or missiles to support ground forces.

On the ground Russian soldiers often fought better-equipped Georgian troops who wore modern body armor—protection they themselves lacked at the time. Russian tanks suffered losses in frontal assaults against more modern Georgian military vehicles equipped with night vision, reactive armor and better communication. The brief conflict also strained Russian supply lines. One Russian tank commander described the loss of two of his tanks this way: “We simply ran out of ammunition and they surrounded us with grenade launchers.” But the sheer size of the Russian military and its strategic positioning of its forces for such a conflict enabled it to win.

The Russian military has already improved since the war six years ago. Russia's fairly bloodless takeover of Crimea this past spring gave the world a look at the modern body armor and other gear worn by the occupying troops. A July 2014 U.K. Parliament report (pdf) has concluded that Russia plans to spend $720 billion over the next decade to create a modern military that could better challenge NATO and the long-term threat of China’s fast-growing military power. The Russian military budget has risen to third-highest in the world, at almost $69 billion in 2013, according to the consulting firm IHS. That amount is still about half of China’s military spending the same year and barely 10 percent of the 2013 U.S. military budget.

*Sowing doubt*
But Russia does not need a fully modern military to achieve a political victory in the ongoing conflict between the Western-backed Ukrainian government and Russian-backed separatist forces. Russia has already mastered the use of an “information war” strategy to influence local populations, confuse the outside world's perception of ground events and shut down opposing sources of online information.

Manipulating and controlling information in ambiguous warfare enables Russia to deny involvement in eastern Ukraine even as it supplies separatist fighters with armored vehicles and air defense missiles, including the Buk missile system that likely was used to shot down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17. The disinformation strategy also worked for Russia when it denied sending troops into Crimea, despite the sudden appearance of well-armed fighters wearing standard uniforms but lacking national uniform insignia or flags on their vehicles.

Part of the information war uses patriotic news outlets and bloggers to broadcast Russia’s version of events on TV, YouTube and on social media, even as the Russian government increasingly restricts independent media voices at home. “There is creeping control over various forms of media, reaching down into the Internet, which was the last means of getting independent information not controlled by the government,” Giles says.

The popularity of social media and mobile phone cameras has posed one of the greater challenges to Russia’s information war strategy. Much initial evidence surrounding the shoot-down of Flight 17 came from Twitter. Careless postings by Russian soldiers betrayed their presence in eastern Ukraine despite official denials, Giles points out. Russia has countered with a law seeking official registration of popular bloggers and requiring social media networks to store six months of data on servers in Russia, according to BBC News."


----------



## jhungary

Joe Shearer said:


> autocorrect, treating the poor man's efforts at gasping out the phrase 'anti-materiel rifle' with the same clinical cruelty with which it, aah, circumscribed @jhungary (oh, that was a low blow!).


lol, i am glad i could be a laughing stock ...


----------



## Oldman1

Hack-Hook said:


> Honestly I don't knew what Russia destroyed or what it didn't . But what I see in that Ukraine stopped flying it's air force . So what ever Russia did effectively eliminated Ukraine air force just like how Saddam air force get eliminated.


Yeah well take it as you will.


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Supply is mobile, you can bring a fuel truck and stash weapon and munition off site in their designated weapon cache, this is what most military do, as for losing facilities, you don't really need state of the art equipment to guide, lunch and receive aircraft.
> 
> Just for a quick read, you should read up what USAF Combat Control Team do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United States Air Force Combat Control Team - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


That reduce effectiveness a lot and Russian airplane maybe cheap to maintain (let say cheaper than American) but they are not that easy to maintain and tend to need somehow more fuel than western counterparts


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Viet said:


> What do you expect?
> Russia wages a war of annihilation. Putin wants to erase Ukraine from the map. Should the Ukrainians greet the invaders with flowers instead of Molotov cocktail? Ukraine wages a total war. That’s justified.
> What if Japan invades China again?
> What would you do?
> Kiss the Japanese?


I'm not saying anything about justification. I'm saying that it doesn't show that they're winning. Big difference.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> "Ambiguous" Warfare Buys Upgrade Time for Russia's Military
> 
> 
> While playing catch-up on technology, Russia opts for cyber attacks, disinformation and other shadowy ways to fight a war with—and sometimes without—plausible deniability
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.scientificamerican.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Upgrade Time for Russia's Military​While playing catch-up on technology, Russia opts for cyber attacks, disinformation and other shadowy ways to fight a war with—and sometimes without—plausible deniability
> 
> 
> By Jeremy Hsu on August 12, 2014
> *Showing its age*
> "The need to modernize the Russian military became clear during the nation's short, sharp war with neighboring Georgia in 2008. “While Russia’s victory in the Russo-Georgian War was convincing, it still highlighted deficiencies in how the Russian army was armed and equipped,” says Keir Giles, a director of the Conflict Studies Research Center at Chatham House in London. Russia relied more on the shock of overwhelming force rather than the sophisticated use of military intelligence and combined arms, according to a U.S. Army War College Strategic Studies Institute report. For instance, Russia lost a Tu-22 bomber during a reconnaissance mission because its forces lacked drones and satellite imagery to conduct surveillance safely. The incomplete state of Russia’s own global navigation satellite system at the time meant its air force could not effectively use guided bombs or missiles to support ground forces.
> 
> On the ground Russian soldiers often fought better-equipped Georgian troops who wore modern body armor—protection they themselves lacked at the time. Russian tanks suffered losses in frontal assaults against more modern Georgian military vehicles equipped with night vision, reactive armor and better communication. The brief conflict also strained Russian supply lines. One Russian tank commander described the loss of two of his tanks this way: “We simply ran out of ammunition and they surrounded us with grenade launchers.” But the sheer size of the Russian military and its strategic positioning of its forces for such a conflict enabled it to win.
> 
> The Russian military has already improved since the war six years ago. Russia's fairly bloodless takeover of Crimea this past spring gave the world a look at the modern body armor and other gear worn by the occupying troops. A July 2014 U.K. Parliament report (pdf) has concluded that Russia plans to spend $720 billion over the next decade to create a modern military that could better challenge NATO and the long-term threat of China’s fast-growing military power. The Russian military budget has risen to third-highest in the world, at almost $69 billion in 2013, according to the consulting firm IHS. That amount is still about half of China’s military spending the same year and barely 10 percent of the 2013 U.S. military budget.
> 
> *Sowing doubt*
> But Russia does not need a fully modern military to achieve a political victory in the ongoing conflict between the Western-backed Ukrainian government and Russian-backed separatist forces. Russia has already mastered the use of an “information war” strategy to influence local populations, confuse the outside world's perception of ground events and shut down opposing sources of online information.
> 
> Manipulating and controlling information in ambiguous warfare enables Russia to deny involvement in eastern Ukraine even as it supplies separatist fighters with armored vehicles and air defense missiles, including the Buk missile system that likely was used to shot down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17. The disinformation strategy also worked for Russia when it denied sending troops into Crimea, despite the sudden appearance of well-armed fighters wearing standard uniforms but lacking national uniform insignia or flags on their vehicles.
> 
> Part of the information war uses patriotic news outlets and bloggers to broadcast Russia’s version of events on TV, YouTube and on social media, even as the Russian government increasingly restricts independent media voices at home. “There is creeping control over various forms of media, reaching down into the Internet, which was the last means of getting independent information not controlled by the government,” Giles says.
> 
> The popularity of social media and mobile phone cameras has posed one of the greater challenges to Russia’s information war strategy. Much initial evidence surrounding the shoot-down of Flight 17 came from Twitter. Careless postings by Russian soldiers betrayed their presence in eastern Ukraine despite official denials, Giles points out. Russia has countered with a law seeking official registration of popular bloggers and requiring social media networks to store six months of data on servers in Russia, according to BBC News."


Russia has lost its warfighting capability a long time ago, that's why they are very heavy on the so called "Hybrid War"

Problem is, once you get to the "Actual" war stage (as in now) you will need to show command structure and leadership, both of which is lacking in Russian side IMO.

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## Joe Shearer

jhungary said:


> lol, i am glad i could be a laughing stock ...


Only in good fun, and NOT a laughing stock.
I don't like the way you are being bullied.


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> That reduce effectiveness a lot and Russian airplane maybe cheap to maintain (let say cheaper than American) but they are not that easy to maintain and tend to need somehow more fuel than western counterparts


Does it really matter tho?

In war, you skip a lot of stuff, sorties is what you wanted most, and as long as an aircraft can still fly, you don't want to sideline it, which essentially make "maintenance" issue secondary.



Joe Shearer said:


> Only in good fun, and NOT a laughing stock.
> I don't like the way you are being bullied.


lol, I know, I am just pulling your finger...

Well, I better watch what I type, especially to sensitive word like "finger" or "circumvent" or "circumstance" or "Interview"

Who knows what my phone are trying to take me.........

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

This guy John R. Schindler gave the most realistic assessment:

The military historian and former counterintelligence officer with the US National Security Agency, John R. Schindler, captured the state of Putin’s war timeline: “Per Twitter, the Russian military in Ukraine looks like a confused, disorganized rabble prone to drunkenness and looting. They were the same when they reached Paris in 1814 and took Berlin in 1945. Don't read too much into it just yet. Russians at war are like this, ever thus.”

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## gambit

TNT said:


> So u have become so desperate that now u compare a so called superpower with a 3rd world country Pakistan lolz. I can understand ur hatred, afterall we shafted u good in Afghanistan and u didnt even realize it untill it was too late lolz, poor superpower lost in the woods.
> You obviously lack common sense so its useless to argue with u. *If today China or Russia gives cuba the "option" of having nukes, will the US allow it?* Providing an "option" means opening a door to an opportunity, something not acceptable to Russia, or for that matter to any big power. What is the guarantee that Ukraine after joining NATO will not allow NATO nukes on its territory? You are doing nothing but embarrassing urself in this thread and jumping around like a propaganda zombie with zero facts or common sense. Anyways ur entertaining us atleast.


You are not as smart as you think.

When Cuba fell under Castro and gained closer ties to the Soviet Union, *INSTANTLY* to the option to have nukes in Cuba was there. And the US did nothing *UNTIL* the Soviet Union actually placed nukes there. Is Cuba friendly to US today? No. So Russia or China can promise Cuba anything, including placing nukes in Cuba. Except this time, we may actually invade Cuba and take those nukes.


----------



## sammuel

Hack-Hook said:


> Show me a trustworthy news outlet if you can.
> But all aside do you believe western media portrayal of the reason for the war is true ?
> What about portrayal or more exactly lack of portrayal of what happened in Donetsk and lohansk in last 7 year ?



MR , in Russia today you get arrested or beaten for demonstrating against the war , social media is blocked , and news agencies are closed if they fail to follow the official government line.

All this does nor happen in the west and is typical to a dictatorship ,like Russia has become.

Sure , all news reports today should be read with caution .

But between news agencies of a democracy and those of a dictatorship , i will choose those of a democracy every time.

You are talking of a totally different world when it comes to free press.

~


----------



## Goritoes

Joe Shearer said:


> NATO is trying to flood the Ukraine with weaponry, particularly individual soldiers' weaponry; they still haven't found Charlie Wilson;


They'll find many Charlie Wilson's for Ukraine, but I doubt there will be a Zia in Ukraine.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Apparently it is not the Russians blocking the Mariupol civilian evacuation despite the Ukrainian side claiming otherwise..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500342795319578625
At 12PM local time the Russians will open a civilian evacuation corridor today on the second attempt of getting the civilian out

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500393219137409028

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500366455799533568
9K330 Tor

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> lol, i am glad i could be a laughing stock ...



Just ignore.
And please tell us how was life in Arctic Circle when you were serving in Submarine force there?

Would you call it better than your time serving at NASA launch site as a consultant? Did you have good interactions with Russian astronauts when you were serving in International Space Station? 

Did those guys have any idea that Russia was going to invade Ukraine?



Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Apparently it is not the Russians blocking the Mariupol civilian evacuation despite the Ukrainian side claiming otherwise..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500342795319578625
> At 12PM local time the Russians will open a civilian evacuation corridor today on the second attempt of getting the civilian out
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500393219137409028



Russians claim they want to check people leaving the city, because many Azov people could try to sneak out.

Whereas Ukraine is refusing the checks and hence stopping people from leaving.

No idea, could be propoganda.

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## gambit

Hack-Hook said:


> It's not important if the hanger and runways are intact honestly *even USA can't destroy runways of a determined enemy *. But an airfield is more than that what about radars ,refueling and maintenance facilities , weapons ?


I doubt you speak from personal experience in the air force.







What is a 'determined' enemy? it is a meaningless phrase. The default position is that all enemies are determined regardless of how much weapons they have, how many soldiers/airmen/sailors available, and so on. We *CANNOT* assume that the enemy is any less determined to defend than we are to attack. So your statement is meaningless to start.

But as far as the USAF go, if your airbase is designated, we *WILL* make it there. In the image above, one B-2 dropped six bombs at the Obvra airbase runway. The four runway-taxiway intersections were cratered to prevent aircraft movements. The two other craters neatly dissected the runways into segments too short to use by any aircraft except for helos. The result is that the runways will be out of operation for at least 1/2 day. In that time, we will see no threat from that base. The mission is called *'runway denial'*. There is a science to this. Just because Iran does not have that knowledge does not mean no one else does.

A flying base without a functional runway is useless. Everything on a flying base is there to support the aircrafts. But if the runway is damaged, the entire base is useless. We can destroy runways, simple as that.

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## Vergennes

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500366455799533568
> 9K330 Tor



Russians being victims of the распутица. nice.


----------



## Dustom999

coffee_cup said:


> Just ignore.
> And please tell us how was life in Arctic Circle when you were serving in Submarine force there?
> 
> Would you call it better than your time serving at NASA launch site as a consultant? Did you have good interactions with Russian astronauts when you were serving in International Space Station?


Employment situation in West seems to be much worse that acknowledged. People with high skill set and experience find it hard to gain meaningful employment and spend most of the time on qwerty keyboard of phone.


----------



## dBSPL

Visa and Mastercard suspend activity in Russia


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

coffee_cup said:


> Just ignore.
> And please tell us how was life in Arctic Circle when you were serving in Submarine force there?
> 
> Would you call it better than your time serving at NASA launch site as a consultant? Did you have good interactions with Russian astronauts when you were serving in International Space Station?
> 
> Did those guys have any idea that Russia was going to invade Ukraine?
> 
> 
> 
> Russians claim they want to check people leaving the city, because many Azov people could try to sneak out.
> 
> Whereas Ukraine is refusing the checks and hence stopping people from leaving.
> 
> No idea, could be propoganda.



So this is what is keeping things from advancing further


----------



## Goritoes

PanzerKiel said:


> As far as I am concerned, the respect for Russian general staff is still there.
> 
> Our conclusions here are mostly based on whatever is available v on western media.
> 
> Equipment losses are in built in any war. Couple of tanks here, couple of aircraft there, c everyday, is always expected.
> 
> We have hardly seen any pics of Ukrainian dead, or their destroyed equipment. They say they are winning this. And every then, they are panicking.
> 
> Is not simple, it's not russia against Ukraine only. It's Russia against the whole NATO, look at the amount and quality of equipment and firepower being given to Ukrainians....


The amount of Propaganda from the west is unbelievable to say the least, I mean I think it should open up people's eyes, even countries like Russia or China can't match the power of Propaganda so countries like Afghanistan, Iraq , Syria or Libya stand no chances. 

Its funny that people are discussing War Strategies and Tactics here but forget that Russians also had this study, they know what they are getting into, calculated their losses, time frame and other parameters, but as the narrative building is in full swing the west is trying to show that Russians are losing and Ukrainians are pushing them back, why? maybe because they want to hide their own failures to intervene in the conflict ? of course people in West are asking the question that why Americans or UK is sending troops to Help Ukraine? but when it comes to invading any ME they are always ready with their War fighting machinery to invade or create a NFZ over the country... Russians must be having the time of their lives as they are not only fighting on ground, but also fight the narrative which is spread over internet, they are getting hit by sanctions, every major business or many companies are closing their businesses with Russians to mount the pressure, The world has not seen anything like that when Iraq and other MErn countries were invaded on false premises.

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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> Just ignore.
> And please tell us how was life in Arctic Circle when you were serving in Submarine force there?
> 
> Would you call it better than your time serving at NASA launch site as a consultant? Did you have good interactions with Russian astronauts when you were serving in International Space Station?
> 
> Did those guys have any idea that Russia was going to invade Ukraine?
> 
> 
> 
> Russians claim they want to check people leaving the city, because many Azov people could try to sneak out.
> 
> Whereas Ukraine is refusing the checks and hence stopping people from leaving.
> 
> No idea, could be propoganda.


Dude, again, you do know Intelligence is a "*JOINT*" operation? Right? There is a thing called "*Intelligence Sharing*"

I mean, if you are too stupid to know that people who work in Military Intelligence would have work *WITH *people from other agency, be it the FBI, NSA or CIA, that was your problem.





__





Joint Intelligence Center - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





I never claim I was a NASA engineer or Whatever the hell you said about else you said, and if you have no idea how the stuff I did work, then don't comment on it.

You people are seriously ignorant. And is it possible for you people to go back to discuss rationally instead of posting stupid arse comment like this?? Especially when it is obvious you have no idea how intelligence work?

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## RescueRanger

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500353641227722755
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500251834040127494
> 
> Rubio is the Vice Chairman of the intel committee


Rubio and Intel those two words in the same sentence are an oxymoron

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500376242410950657

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## LeGenD

notorious_eagle said:


> NATO spends a combined $1 Trillion on Defense, out of which the US spends $800 billion. Only a fool would think the Russians even stand a chance in a conventional fight against NATO.
> 
> I am simply at a loss at how Russia executed this war. The entire Russian General Staff should be fired, and i used to have the highest amount of respect for the Russian General Staff.


Indeed, Sir.

My take is that Russian military operation in Ukraine was well-planned and executed in the opening phase of the war - Russian forces breached Ukraine from 6 different directions including through Belarus in short order. Russians also convinced Belarus and Chechnya to provide reinforcements. This is the best Russia could do in theory. Quality of Russian army is questionable on the other hand. Russians were also of the view that Ukrainian leader Volodymyr Zelenskyy is a Western puppet and will not be able to mobilize Ukrainian resistance effort? well... Russians just found out that they were wrong on this count.

@PanzerKiel

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## maverick1977

zartosht said:


> A major consequence of this war not being discussed?
> 
> All these Nato countries openly supplying weapons that kill Russian soldiers.
> 
> Can look forward to nasty surprises the next iraq/afghanistan misadventure they go on.
> 
> I fully expect to see Russian atgms flooding the next war of aggression nato wages against some near defenceless country




Quite possible that Russia start arming dissident groups in Poland, Romania, Maldova, Hungry and Solvakia as a counter to what NaTO is doing to Russia in ukraine. it wont be a direct Russian intervention and can create a major challenge in Western europe… 
The question is what can NATO do, and you all know the answer, nothing when non state actors are sent across the border

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## Vergennes

"Why are russian aircrafts flying low" ?

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## 8888888888888

LeGenD said:


> Indeed, Sir.
> 
> My take is that Russian military operation in Ukraine was well-planned and executed in the opening phase of the war - Russian forces breached Ukraine from 6 different directions including through Belarus in short order. Russians also convinced Belarus and Chechnya to provide reinforcements. This is the best Russia could do in theory. Quality of Russian army is questionable on the other hand. Russians were also of the view that Ukrainian leader Volodymyr Zelenskyy is a Western puppet and will not be able to mobilize Ukrainian resistance effort? well... Russians just found out that they were wrong on this count.
> 
> @PanzerKiel


I think you are wrong in the 2nd point, they do know Ukraine will put up organized resistance because of the Donbas front.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Russians being victims of the распутица. nice.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500393385986822145

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500353641227722755
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500251834040127494
> 
> Rubio is the Vice Chairman of the intel committee



The Russians will escalate now and come down hard on the Ukrianians and foreigners once the civilians is evacuated


----------



## Joe Shearer

Goritoes said:


> They'll find many Charlie Wilson's for Ukraine, but I doubt there will be a Zia in Ukraine.


I am so ill-informed.

Didn't realise that there was a Zia in Afghanistan.

Really must do my homework next time, before attending your military history lessons.

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## NA71

Ukrainian Tanks manufacturing factory has been completely leveled by Russian Jets this morning...... CNN reports....

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## Joe Shearer

jhungary said:


> Who knows what my phone are trying to take me


Kharkiv, I suspect.

Be afraid, be VERY afraid.


----------



## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500393385986822145



Why didn't you answer my question ? Where's the proof of Russia hitting "2129" targets inside Ukraine ? Any proofs ?


----------



## Joe Shearer

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> They were the same when they reached Paris in 1814 and took Berlin in 1945. Don't read too much into it just yet. Russians at war are like this, ever thus.”


People tend to forget the lessons of history. In this case, European history; we have let ourselves be overwhelmed by the Russian performance in Asia, specifically in Afghanistan, as in Central Asia, they did not do badly.

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## jhungary

Joe Shearer said:


> Kharkiv, I suspect.
> 
> Be afraid, be VERY afraid.


or to PDF 

PDF is much more dangerous than Kharkiv.....

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## Joe Shearer

gambit said:


> I doubt you speak from personal experience in the air force.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is a 'determined' enemy? it is a meaningless phrase. The default position is that all enemies are determined regardless of how much weapons they have, how many soldiers/airmen/sailors available, and so on. We *CANNOT* assume that the enemy is any less determined to defend than we are to attack. So your statement is meaningless to start.
> 
> But as far as the USAF go, if your airbase is designated, we *WILL* make it there. In the image above, one B-2 dropped six bombs at the Obvra airbase runway. The four runway-taxiway intersections were cratered to prevent aircraft movements. The two other craters neatly dissected the runways into segments too short to use by any aircraft except for helos. The result is that the runways will be out of operation for at least 1/2 day. In that time, we will see no threat from that base. The mission is called *'runway denial'*. There is a science to this. Just because Iran does not have that knowledge does not mean no one else does.
> 
> A flying base without a functional runway is useless. Everything on a flying base is there to support the aircrafts. But if the runway is damaged, the entire base is useless. We can destroy runways, simple as that.


Actually, it is not at all clear what @Hack-Hook meant by that phrase. Dhaka 71 did seem different.



jhungary said:


> or to PDF
> 
> PDF is much more dangerous than Kharkiv.....


Can't argue with that!


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500252320591978497

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## dBSPL

Tanks are waiting to the tankers for advance, but it looks like the tankers will be a little late

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500402643553955841

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Why didn't you answer my question ? Where's the proof of Russia hitting "2129" targets inside Ukraine ? Any proofs ?




That was a report from Russian news agency (Tass). You take up with them. But didn't I shown entire bases, full of tanks and other equipment, abandoned by the Ukrainian army?


----------



## V. Makarov

Sorry if this is a repost, but Johnny Harris is an independent journalist who explained this war better than most.


----------



## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> That was a report of Russian news agency (Tass). You take up with them.



So that's what I understood,thank you for showing up your hypocrisy.


----------



## TNT

jhungary said:


> This is not about NATO or Russian perspective, this may work on the outside third party (like you and me) but it won't work in Ukraine, because you are bombing them, anything you said is going to be an excuse, would you think it is normal for Ukrainian look at the Russian after they bomb their apartment build and said "Aim better next time?"


Where was this wisdom when u werw bombing Afghanistan? At that time u ppl werw cocky. Im sure uve learned the lesson.

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## jhungary

Joe Shearer said:


> Actually, it is not at all clear what @Hack-Hook meant by that phrase. Dhaka 71 did seem different.
> 
> 
> Can't argue with that!


I survived 2 years (and some) in 2 different war, I quit this forum less than that.

No joke, the amount of firepower dished out by the like of @coffee_cup et el is more serious than Iraqi or Taliban insurgent ever able to..



TNT said:


> Where was this wisdom when u werw bombing Afghanistan? At that time u ppl werw cocky. Im sure uve learned the lesson.


It is not about learning a lesson.

Well, seems like you have never served or been in war.......(not intended as an offence but that just indicate you don't know the ins and outs of the military/war)

When a military fight a war, you don't "end" that war by the definition of you are fighting and they are fighting back. The war is the reason you were there, but you were there is the reason for war. That's the cycle. Everyone who had ever been in a warzone know that.

Now in Afghanistan, we don't care about anything because it will not lead to an insurgency in America, we ain't bordering Afghanistan, that's why we did we we did over there, Ukraine is next to Russia. It's like if we fight the Canadian in a war, any insurgency in Canada will be undoubtedly spill over to the US...

not sure if that make sense to you.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> So that's what I understood,thank you for showing up your hypocrisy.




Everyday you post Russian military vehicles "destroyed" or "captured", but the Ukrainian cities are getting surrounded by the Russian army, and Ukrainians are resorting to desperate measures like destroying their own bridges and flooding the plains. Those are not the signs of an army winning in battle. And Zelenksy idiot was lately crying to the West to impose a no-fly zone.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500390565623517184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500388612868907011

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## Wergeland 2.0

Clutch said:


> If America can invade Afghanistan because of a 0.01% of the population was Al Qaeda in 2001(remember according to Western polls over 95% of the afghans population had not heard of Al Qaeda) ... Why can't Russia invade Ukraine because of over 10% (according to some stats) of the population being Neo Nazi terrorist???
> 
> This guy leaves out the main fact of Russian antagonism ... The expansion of NATO to Ukraine as a redline for Russia ... All he says is Nazi Nazi Nazi ..



Putin will loose because HE said so.
Isnt that enough!?

Youtube is a strange place. Ive seen bunch of these contentmaker who are very good at sounding smart to their audience.

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## RescueRanger

At times like these it would be excellent to have the learned input of people like @vostok — pdf must try to find Russian posters or members from that region.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Another country being sacrificed? Someone gotta help me to understand why Freemasonries love to sacrifice children who aren't their own? Uh, those goys gotta provide me more of their own as part of the sacrificial lambs to the 'gods', according to Blinken.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500350733396463616

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## dBSPL

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Another country being sacrificed? Someone gotta help me to understand why Freemasonries love to sacrifice children who aren't their own? Uh, those goys gotta provide more of their own as part of the sacrificial lambs to the 'gods', according to Blinken.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500350733396463616


Poland is NATO country...


----------



## Goritoes

Joe Shearer said:


> I am so ill-informed.
> 
> Didn't realise that there was a Zia in Afghanistan.
> 
> Really must do my homework next time, before attending your military history lessons.


Zia wasn't in Afghanistan, but without Zia Charlie Wilson with all that he brings to Afghanistan would mean nothing.

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## TNT

gambit said:


> You are not as smart as you think.
> 
> When Cuba fell under Castro and gained closer ties to the Soviet Union, *INSTANTLY* to the option to have nukes in Cuba was there. And the US did nothing *UNTIL* the Soviet Union actually placed nukes there. Is Cuba friendly to US today? No. So Russia or China can promise Cuba anything, including placing nukes in Cuba. Except this time, we may actually invade Cuba and take those nukes.



I am not smart but u r a dumb***. Gaining closer ties and becoming part of a military alliance that involves deploying nuclear weapons are two totally different things. And u justified Russian invasion by saying that, so dont cry here and spread propaganda.

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## dBSPL

Kherson. The Russian army continues to lose aircraft at full speed. All Ukraine has to do is hold out for a few months. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500405226481889280

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## Bilal.

RescueRanger said:


> At times like these it would be excellent to have the learned input of people like @vostok — pdf must try to find Russian posters or members from that region.


True, because as off now Russia seems to have been humiliatingly brought to a stall. So input from other side would be valuable to understand what’s going on.

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## Joe Shearer

Goritoes said:


> Zia wasn't in Afghanistan, but without Zia Charlie Wilson with all that he brings to Afghanistan would mean nothing.


You MUST be right.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500393165194465283

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## TNT

Vergennes said:


> Why didn't you answer my question ? Where's the proof of Russia hitting "2129" targets inside Ukraine ? Any proofs ?



Where are the proofs for the crap u post? Just propaganda tweets. Now u have a problem with someone showing the other side?

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> Dude, again, you do know Intelligence is a "*JOINT*" operation? Right? There is a thing called "*Intelligence Sharing*"
> 
> I mean, if you are too stupid to know that people who work in Military Intelligence would have work *WITH *people from other agency, be it the FBI, NSA or CIA, that was your problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joint Intelligence Center - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never claim I was a NASA engineer or Whatever the hell you said about else you said, and if you have no idea how the stuff I did work, then don't comment on it.
> 
> You people are seriously ignorant. And is it possible for you people to go back to discuss rationally instead of posting stupid arse comment like this?? Especially when it is obvious you have no idea how intelligence work?



Yes indeed, we mortals are very ignorant. This is why we are asking for guidance from supreme intelligent beings like you for guidance.

So when you were posted in Afghanistan, Arctic, Australia, Venezuella, Iraq, Syria, Ghana, Cambodia, China, Philippines, Intenational Space Station...Mars, did it ever occur to you that the information that media is feeding you might be propaganda to brainwash the public?

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## Vergennes

TNT said:


> Where are the proofs for the crap u post? Just propaganda tweets. Now u have a problem with someone showing the other side?



Sorry for pointing the hypocrisy of some posters here who ask for any proofs of what Ukraine is saying or showing while they swallow everything Russia says without checking a bit if true or not.... just like Russia saying they downed more TB2s than Ukraine has actually in inventory.  When I ask for proofs I don't see them around.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500369088299814914

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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500393165194465283


I bet they're hungry after their tiresome journey. Do they eat stinger missiles, or AAMs?


----------



## TNT

jhungary said:


> I survived 2 years (and some) in 2 different war, I quit this forum less than that.
> 
> No joke, the amount of firepower dished out by the like of @coffee_cup et el is more serious than Iraqi or Taliban insurgent ever able to..
> 
> 
> It is not about learning a lesson.
> 
> Well, seems like you have never served or been in war.......(not intended as an offence but that just indicate you don't know the ins and outs of the military/war)
> 
> When a military fight a war, you don't "end" that war by the definition of you are fighting and they are fighting back. The war is the reason you were there, but you were there is the reason for war. That's the cycle. Everyone who had ever been in a warzone know that.
> 
> Now in Afghanistan, we don't care about anything because it will not lead to an insurgency in America, we ain't bordering Afghanistan, that's why we did we we did over there, Ukraine is next to Russia. It's like if we fight the Canadian in a war, any insurgency in Canada will be undoubtedly spill over to the US...
> 
> not sure if that make sense to you.



Oh yes totally makes sense. Also proves the point u ppl have no humanity or morality of any kind what so ever. Thanks and this justifies the Russian invasion as well, u r creating mess on their border so better they invade and annihilate it.


----------



## Vergennes

Another one,another one...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500417581328523269


----------



## NA71



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## Hassan Al-Somal

Irping is burning........




Vergennes said:


> Another one,another one...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500417581328523269




*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500373973196017667*


----------



## Viet

FairAndUnbiased said:


> I'm not saying anything about justification. I'm saying that it doesn't show that they're winning. Big difference.


Who is they not winning?
Russia or Ukraine?


----------



## RescueRanger

Bilal. said:


> True, because as off now Russia seems to have been humiliatingly brought to a stall. So input from other side would be valuable to understand what’s going on.


I mean Russia has made a mess of things yes but I like to have information from both sides - and whilst we all are chewing the fact - who better to comment o. The situation then someone who lives there.



NA71 said:


> View attachment 821236


Lol 😂

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## jhungary

TNT said:


> Oh yes totally makes sense. Also proves the point u ppl have no humanity or morality of any kind what so ever. Thanks and this justifies the Russian invasion as well, u r creating mess on their border so better they invade and annihilate it.


You say this like I am the one who is in charge of foreign policy.....

You are looking at the wrong people dude, I was just there to survive, if they don't shoot at me, I won't shoot at them.

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## Bilal.



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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> Yes indeed, we mortals are very ignorant. This is why we are asking for guidance from supreme intelligent beings like you for guidance.
> 
> So when you were posted in Afghanistan, Arctic, Australia, Venezuella, Iraq, Syria, Ghana, Cambodia, China, Philippines, Intenational Space Station...Mars, did it ever occur to you that the information that media is feeding you might be propaganda to brainwash the public?


lol, whatever, as if you people are able to hold down an argument without being passive aggressive. 

Please do not ever quote me again.


----------



## TNT

Vergennes said:


> Sorry for pointing the hypocrisy of some posters here who ask for any proofs of what Ukraine is saying or showing while they swallow everything Russia says without checking a bit if true or not.... just like Russia saying they downed more TB2s than Ukraine has actually in inventory.  When I ask for proofs I don't see them around.


U r doing the same, just on the opposite side. What proofs have u brought??? u also post tweets like they do. If u have the freedom to post stuff then they have it too. If u ask them for proof then u should first provide proof for ur stuff.

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## Bilal.

RescueRanger said:


> I mean Russia has made a mess of things yes but I like to have information from both sides - and whilst we all are chewing the fact - who better to comment o. The situation then someone who lives there.
> 
> 
> Lol 😂


Perhaps one very surprising and puzzling aspect of this conflict is the lack of regular official briefs from Russian MOD or any other relevant department. 

The whole information aspect of the war has been left to Twitter and Telegram users.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500374625066307585


That Guy said:


> I bet they're hungry after their tiresome journey. Do they eat stinger missiles, or AAMs?





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500363067850477576

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## Vergennes

TNT said:


> U r doing the same, just on the opposite side. What proofs have u brought??? u also post tweets like they do. If u have the freedom to post stuff then they have it too. If u ask them for proof then u should first provide proof for ur stuff.



I don't care what they post,I just point out hypocrisy.


----------



## That Guy

On a side note, China's military planners are probably learning a lot from this war. I bet China doubles down on its anti-SAM systems and logistics over the coming years, as well as significantly increasing its cruise missiles inventory.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500374625066307585
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500363067850477576


Meh, nothing exciting. I've already seen these :|


----------



## Iñigo

YT has disabled translation of Russian voices so we can't hear them

"Perhaps one very surprising and puzzling aspect of this conflict is the lack of regular official briefs from Russian MOD or any other relevant department."

The Western mental bubble is now complete

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> I don't care what they post,I just point out hypocrisy.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500363186364719106

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Can we all please quit the virtue signalling and concentrate on the war because at the end of the day all that matters is who is stronger because this is not about whos right or whos wrong AND this was never about morality but revenge and powerplay hence lets keep the discussion to the military sphere and also lets exclude past or future events being dragging into this but just this present conflict..

There is no rights or wrongs remember this and this counts anywhere else in the world

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## FairAndUnbiased

Viet said:


> Who is they not winning?
> Russia or Ukraine?


are you deliberately misunderstanding simple English?


----------



## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic



"Russians only sent poorly trained conscripts to Ukraine and kept their best troops for NATO!!". Guess VDV (who are supposed to be elite troops) were conscripts too ?


----------



## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> lol, whatever, as if you people are able to hold down an argument without being passive aggressive.
> 
> Please do not ever quote me again.



What argument?

International law ceased to exist the day US/NATO illegally invaded Yogoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan etc etc, flattening cities and killing millions by carpet bombing, throwing cluster bombs, depleted uranium and what not.

And none of them ever brought to justice in ICC for genocides and war crimes.

So when the supreme intelligent beings from USA tell us "You dont invade smaller countries in 21st century", what does it exactly mean? Can you explain us normal mortals?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Iñigo said:


> YT has disabled translation of Russian voices so we can't hear them
> 
> "Perhaps one very surprising and puzzling aspect of this conflict is the lack of regular official briefs from Russian MOD or any other relevant department."
> 
> The Western mental bubble is now complete




Man, press briefings from Russian defense ministry is lame. They have one guy just talking. No videos. no maps; just one officer speaking in Russian.


----------



## That Guy

Iñigo said:


> YT has disabled translation of Russian voices so we can't hear them
> 
> "Perhaps one very surprising and puzzling aspect of this conflict is the lack of regular official briefs from Russian MOD or any other relevant department."
> 
> The Western mental bubble is now complete


Perhaps because things aren't going to plan, and they're trying to clean up their own mess of an army?


----------



## BHAN85

__





Bennett meets Putin and they talk about Iran Deal


https://www.debka.com/bennett-on-secret-mission-to-moscow-for-talks-with-putin-in-sync-with-us/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/germanys-scholz-says-iran-deal-cant-be-postponed-any-longer/...



defence.pk


----------



## serenity

I think this thread has lost some important perspective.

Russia is at war with a technologically near peer adversary. Despite being 10 times larger and more numerous, it is performing an invasion into Ukrainian home turf. This means the logistics problem is mostly for Russia. Supply lines for this is easy since it is right next door and they have Belarus. Meanwhile Ukraine has also benefited from supply increases before the war and also during of western arms.

Russia losing stuff is to be expected. They are making progress on control of regions. We don't see much of what Ukraine has been losing but the losing control of land shows enough. It would be total loss on Ukrainian side for loss of land or if strategic pull back, then defeated by Russian side. Just to be objective about it.

Maybe some (and this is pushed by media) expected that Russia would have minimal loss or something.

This is an occupation invasion, and a very intense one and fast paced. In Iraq, US took about 2 weeks for control over it and Ukraine is far stronger than Iraq with the military capability between Iraq and then USA compared to Ukraine and Russia now being far greater as well.

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## jhungary

That Guy said:


> On a side note, China's military planners are probably learning a lot from this war. I bet China doubles down on its anti-SAM systems and logistics over the coming years, as well as significantly increasing its cruise missiles inventory.
> 
> 
> Meh, nothing exciting. I've already seen these :|


US SEAD Mission - EA-18G flew over SAM site, plotting their radar and F-15E or other F-18E/F Fire anti-radiation missile
Russia SEAD - Ram the tank into the SAM Battery and destroy them.......

It's worth notice that Russia did not have EA-18G or F-15E equivalent aircraft....

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500358354648117250


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## coffee_cup

Poland has refuted the reports and today again categorically stated, it wont give any war planes to Ukraine.

Furthermore, it has also stated that no airfield will be allowed to use for any war planes in Ukraine.

It will however keep helping Ukraine in other areas.

(German "Tagesschau" is reporting)

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## That Guy

jhungary said:


> US SEAD Mission - EA-18G flew over SAM site, plotting their radar and F-15E or other F-18E/F Fire anti-radiation missile
> Russia SEAD - Ram the tank into the SAM Battery and destroy them.......
> 
> It's worth notice that Russia did not have EA-18G or F-15E equivalent aircraft....


True; the Chinese seem to be developing their own version of the growler called the J-16D. Whichever Chinese guy convinced his boss to develop this fighter may be feeling vindicated by his decision.

If the Russians had such a system, they may have not suffered as many losses.


----------



## Musings

PanzerKiel said:


> As far as I am concerned, the respect for Russian general staff is still there.
> 
> Our conclusions here are mostly based on whatever is available v on western media.
> 
> Equipment losses are in built in any war. Couple of tanks here, couple of aircraft there, c everyday, is always expected.
> 
> We have hardly seen any pics of Ukrainian dead, or their destroyed equipment. They say they are winning this. And every then, they are panicking.
> 
> Is not simple, it's not russia against Ukraine only. It's Russia against the whole NATO, look at the amount and quality of equipment and firepower being given to Ukrainians....


Wholeheartedly agree. Several days ago I suggested this was a war, conflict or engagement like no other because the height of social media and the western press seem to portray everything from a Ukrainian stance - it seems so 1 sided. I am no fan of Putin but I can say with confidence that the Russian army is a well oiled and equipped beast and won’t by a sacrificial pawn in this conflict - not seen ANY casualties from Ukraine of significance.

Wars where the USA and NATO have instigated and attempted to introduce their “democracy” have been different in many aspects - the propaganda lies and poisoning of the mind won’t wash here. As they say Russia ain’t no Iraq Afghanistan Libya et al. 
Btw nice to see a voice like yours on here - always a pleasure sir.

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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> What argument?
> 
> International law ceased to exist the day US/NATO illegally invaded Yogoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan etc etc, flattening cities and killing millions by carpet bombing, throwing cluster bombs, depleted uranium and what not.
> 
> And none of them ever brought to justice in ICC for genocides and war crimes.
> 
> So when the supreme intelligent beings from USA tell us "You dont invade smaller countries in 21st century", what does it exactly mean? Can you explain us normal mortals?


You want the truth?

We can do whatever the hell we want because the people we killed are what the world consider as "Secondary People" They are not equal, they don't sell advertisement slot, and nobody in the west care enough to care about them. And nobody in the West would bat an eyelid when they died a horrible way.

It's like what Nick Nolte said in Hotel Rwanda






The world focus on Power and Money, and if your country did not have neither, then you are dirt, you want to look to the UN to help you? Well, you are either in US camp or in Russia Camp, and if you are stupid enough to go beside either one of those interest, you are stupid enough to get deal with by the UN. This is how UN was set up.

So in what way do you have enough "power" or "money" to put US or Russia or China or UK or France on trial? Nobody care about what you think, you can scream unfair all day long but at the end of the day you are just going to do that until you die and died bitterly in the end.

If you want to bring US to justice? Develop your economy so you can replace us. Otherwise, nobody will listen to you, because your opinion don't worth shit. And I am sorry for that, but that IS the truth. Whether you like it or not. This is how world politic works.

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## LeGenD

Microsoft said:


> So even western media agrees on these:
> 1) Donbas in Russian control
> 2) Mariupol in Russian control
> 3) Kherson in Russian control
> 4) Chernobyl and Zaporzhzhia (at least power plants) in Russian control
> 5) Kiev almost surrounded
> 
> All in the course of 10 days. But the official agenda is Ukraine is winning? Any of the NATO apologists care to explain?


Who said that Ukraine is winning the war? They are fighting back and inflicting losses on invading forces. Observers are rather surprised and intrigued.

Russian advances aren't fluid either. Fighting is very intense in some locations. Russians suffered setbacks in some locations while attempting to overrun them. Mariupol and Kyiv have not fallen to Russian forces yet.

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## Oldman1

coffee_cup said:


> Poland has refuted the reports and today again categorically stated, it wont give any war planes to Ukraine.
> 
> Furthermore, it has also stated that no airfield will be allowed to use for any war planes in Ukraine.
> 
> It will however keep helping Ukraine in other areas.
> 
> (German "Tagesschau" is reporting)


Thats too bad but not unexpected.



LeGenD said:


> Who said that Ukraine is winning the war? They are fighting back and inflicting losses on invading forces. Observers are rather surprised and intrigued.


Ukraine just doesn't need to lose.


----------



## That Guy

Musings said:


> Wholeheartedly agree. Several days ago I suggested this was a war, conflict or engagement like no other because the height of social media and the western press seem to portray everything from a Ukrainian stance - it seems so 1 sided. I am no fan of Putin but I can say with confidence that the Russian army is a well oiled and equipped beast and won’t by a sacrificial pawn in this conflict - not seen ANY casualties from Ukraine of significance.
> 
> Wars where the USA and NATO have instigated and attempted to introduce their “democracy” have been different in many aspects - the propaganda lies and poisoning of the mind won’t wash here. As they say Russia ain’t no Iraq Afghanistan Libya et al.
> Btw nice to see a voice like yours on here - always a pleasure sir.


Oryx has been doing a count of losses of equipment on both sides, if you're interested in the OSINT data currently available.

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## Song Hong

A shining example of Ukrainian "democracy and rule-of-law". Ukrainian negotiator Denis Kireev was murdered in Kiev by the SBU, the secret service of his country. Executed without a trial after they suspected him of treason.
He had been a member of the Ukrainian delegation that negotiated with Russian diplomats in Gomel, Belarus.



https://www.rt.com/russia/551306-ukraine-negotiator-reported-killed/?fbclid=IwAR3296_oRnfSl7xX2zQHVQSNuQKxV7-8-HcA-7u1HanrEkMRiGRTgrvjrBo


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500413285199405059


----------



## That Guy

LeGenD said:


> Who said that Ukraine is winning the war? They are fighting back and inflicting losses on invading forces. Observers are rather surprised and intrigued.
> 
> Russian advances aren't fluid either. Fighting is very intense in some locations. Russians suffered setbacks in some locations while attempting to overrun them. Mariupol and Kyiv have not fallen to Russian forces yet.


Pretty much.

No one actually expects Ukraine to win. It's just a matter of if they can manage to break a few Russian bones in the process.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500424300486086657


That Guy said:


> Pretty much.
> 
> No one actually expects Ukraine to win. It's just a matter of if they can manage to break a few Russian bones in the process.



Russians might probably win in the end but it'll be a phyrric victory. And given the state of the Russian economy,things will be just made worse. Not adding the insurgency that will follow... (if it hasn't already)

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## That Guy

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500424300486086657


Ah, more farming equipment for the Ukrainian farmers, I see.

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> You want the truth?
> 
> We can do whatever the hell we want because the people we killed are what the world consider as "Secondary People" They are not equal, they don't sell advertisement slot, and nobody in the west care enough to care about them. And nobody in the West would bat an eyelid when they died a horrible way.
> 
> It's like what Nick Nolte said in Hotel Rwanda
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world focus on Power and Money, and if your country did not have neither, then you are dirt, you want to look to the UN to help you? Well, you are either in US camp or in Russia Camp, and if you are stupid enough to go beside either one of those interest, you are stupid enough to get deal with by the UN. This is how UN was set up.
> 
> So in what way do you have enough "power" or "money" to put US or Russia or China or UK or France on trial? Nobody care about what you think, you can scream unfair all day long but at the end of the day you are just going to do that until you die and died bitterly in the end.
> 
> If you want to bring US to justice? Develop your economy so you can replace us. Otherwise, nobody will listen to you, because your opinion don't worth shit. And I am sorry for that, but that IS the truth. Whether you like it or not.



Might is right. This is what you saying? And you are fine with it that the country you are serving is nothing but a sham, a con-artist, a pathetic tyrant? And you are fine with the fact that the country you are serving is committing genocides around the world?

The rest of the world might not be as resourceful (propaganda wise) but will hear no more lectures from those hyenas! I agree, our countries should take a clue and abandon these "democracy" dramas. Learn from the West if you want to develop yourself!

In the meanwhile deal with Putin, we aint taking no sides. Time, and not propaganda, will tell how it ends...


----------



## Iñigo

coffee_cup said:


> What argument?
> 
> International law ceased to exist the day US/NATO illegally invaded Yogoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan etc etc, flattening cities and killing millions by carpet bombing, throwing cluster bombs, depleted uranium and what not.
> 
> And none of them ever brought to justice in ICC for genocides and war crimes.
> 
> So when the supreme intelligent beings from USA tell us "You dont invade smaller countries in 21st century", what does it exactly mean? Can you explain us normal mortals?



E x a c t l y

"The West" has only a simple and clear discourse: We are the Masters of the Universe and you poor mortals must obey in silence.

Our interests, wishes, desires, fancies, whims and delusions are sacred things dear to the gods, and your poor lives are worthless when viewed from our high vantage point of imperial arrogance.

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## Oldman1

That Guy said:


> Ah, more farming equipment for the Ukrainian farmers, I see.


A bunch of them, I count 7 intact artillery pieces.

Perhaps they should hunt more artillery besides the ambushes. Blow one up, rest runs away abandoning a whole battery.

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## Wergeland 2.0

If Russia manages to weather the massive sanctions and meet their objectives in Ukraine(which is very likely imo). The West would have played all its non-kinetic soft power cards without having prevented what it was designed to prevent. There will be a serious psychological aftermath around the globe.

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## Dustom999

That Guy said:


> I bet they're hungry after their tiresome journey. Do they eat stinger missiles, or AAMs?


Can't be sure how hungry they might be. May be they will eat the operator along with launchers too! Time will tell.

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## Ali_Baba

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500393165194465283



Wow - they are using dumb bombs - explains their losses from low level attacks for sure.


----------



## nangyale

Oldman1 said:


> Ukraine just doesn't need to lose.


Not lose what?

They have already lost a million of their population to immigration, most of their combat capability, alot of their trained soldiers and all of their navy and airforce.

The Russians can simply hand over the place to something like the NDPR militia and let Ukies kill each other forever, while withdrawing their own professional military.


----------



## That Guy

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500424300486086657
> 
> 
> Russians might probably win in the end but it'll be a phyrric victory. And given the state of the Russian economy,things will be just made worse. Not adding the insurgency that will follow... (if it hasn't already)


The insurgency has already started. Most of the ambushes are being done by militias that are a part of the TDF.

Even if the entire Ukrainian military collapses, the TDF is set up in a way that will guarantee that they will keep fighting. The Russians are pretty much screwed in the long term.


----------



## thetutle

maverick1977 said:


> Quite possible that Russia start arming dissident groups in Poland, Romania, Maldova, Hungry and Solvakia as a counter to what NaTO is doing to Russia in ukraine. it wont be a direct Russian intervention and can create a major challenge in Western europe…
> The question is what can NATO do, and you all know the answer, nothing when non state actors are sent across the border


Let Russia do it. What groups will this be?


----------



## Ali_Baba

That Guy said:


> On a side note, China's military planners are probably learning a lot from this war. I bet China doubles down on its anti-SAM systems and logistics over the coming years, as well as significantly increasing its cruise missiles inventory.
> 
> 
> Meh, nothing exciting. I've already seen these :|



And the need to have CIWS sitting next to your very important Radars and important SAM systems to shoot down cruise missiles that are targetting them !!!!! 

Alot of the radars that were knocked out in Ukraine by Russia could have been saved by having a CIWs type platform defending it.

A lesson for Pakistan for sure.

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## Oldman1

nangyale said:


> Lose what?
> 
> They have already lost a million of their population to immigration, most of their combat capability, alot of their trained soldiers and all of their navy and airforce.
> 
> The Russians can simply hand over the place to something like the NDPR militia and let Ukies kill each other forever, while withdrawing their own professional military.


LOL! Considering what happened in the past wars with superpowers like in Vietnam and Afghanistan, I'm surprised you think they should surrender after all the deaths and destruction. And what makes you think Putin would abandon the country he conquers?


----------



## LeGenD

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500424300486086657
> 
> 
> Russians might probably win in the end but it'll be a phyrric victory. And given the state of the Russian economy,things will be just made worse. Not adding the insurgency that will follow... (if it hasn't already)



Russia might be able to accomplish its short term objectives in Ukraine but it will find it impractical to sustain its occupation of Ukraine in view of the type of sanctions it is being subjected to lately.

Ukrainian insurgency might have much more lifeline then some realize. Even Thailand is willing to support Ukraine in this respect.

@That Guy

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## That Guy

coffee_cup said:


> Might is right. This is what you saying? And you are fine with it that the country you are serving is nothing but a sham, a con-artist, a pathetic tyrant? And you are fine with the fact that the country you are serving is committing genocides around the world?
> 
> The rest of the world might not be as resourceful (propaganda wise) but will hear no more lectures from those hyenas! I agree, our countries should take a clue and abandon these "democracy" dramas. Learn from the West if you want to develop yourself!
> 
> In the meanwhile deal with Putin, we aint taking no sides. Time, and not propaganda, will tell how it ends...


It seems you didn't really pay attention to what he wrote.

You're doing a poor attempt at shaming him, because what you said is simply ridiculous.


----------



## Oldman1

Ali_Baba said:


> Wow - they are using dumb bombs - explains their losses from low level attacks for sure.


Not to mention the cloud cover, can't bomb through clouds what they can't see.


----------



## Dustom999

serenity said:


> I think this thread has lost some important perspective.
> 
> Russia is at war with a technologically near peer adversary. Despite being 10 times larger and more numerous, it is performing an invasion into Ukrainian home turf. This means the logistics problem is mostly for Russia. Supply lines for this is easy since it is right next door and they have Belarus. Meanwhile Ukraine has also benefited from supply increases before the war and also during of western arms.
> 
> Russia losing stuff is to be expected. They are making progress on control of regions. We don't see much of what Ukraine has been losing but the losing control of land shows enough. It would be total loss on Ukrainian side for loss of land or if strategic pull back, then defeated by Russian side. Just to be objective about it.
> 
> Maybe some (and this is pushed by media) expected that Russia would have minimal loss or something.
> 
> This is an occupation invasion, and a very intense one and fast paced. In Iraq, US took about 2 weeks for control over it and Ukraine is far stronger than Iraq with the military capability between Iraq and then USA compared to Ukraine and Russia now being far greater as well.


At whatever location Russian forces finally stops and starts consolidation, media will term as west succeed in halting Russian advance. Even if Russia takes control of entire Ukraine ( which I don't think is the objective here), west will say we saved poland et al

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## nangyale

thetutle said:


> Let Russia do it. What groups will this be?


The right sector that has been armed and weaponised by the West is enough to spread havoc in the EU.
Just give it a few years and everyone will be able to witness the EUs equivalent of Kalashinkov culture.

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## Ali_Baba

For those who have not seen this site - useful to track what being reported as lost for the Russian side : https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

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## RescueRanger

nangyale said:


> The right sector that has been armed and weaponised by the West is enough to spread havoc in the EU.
> Just give it a few years and everyone will be able to witness the EUs equivalent of Kalashinkov culture.


Yes - strong meth vibes from Eastern Europe and now they will have anti tank weapons and stingers 😂

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## nangyale

Oldman1 said:


> LOL! Considering what happened in the past wars with superpowers like in Vietnam and Afghanistan, I'm surprised you think they should surrender after all the deaths and destruction. And what makes you think Putin would abandon the country he conquers?


Not abandon just not part of Russia itself, something akin to Belarus, or Kazakhstan.


----------



## Oldman1

nangyale said:


> The right sector that has been armed and weaponised by the West is enough to spread havoc in the EU.
> Just give it a few years and everyone will be able to witness the EUs equivalent of Kalashinkov culture.


Or spread into Russia as well...



nangyale said:


> Not abandon just not part of Russia itself, something akin to Belarus, or Kazakhstan.


LOL sure!


----------



## nangyale

RescueRanger said:


> Yes - strong meth vibes from Eastern Europe and now they will have anti tank weapons and stingers 😂


I am sure the Brits are thanking their lucky stars for Brexit.

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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> Might is right. This is what you saying? And you are fine with it that the country you are serving is nothing but a sham, a con-artist, a pathetic tyrant? And you are fine with the fact that the country you are serving is committing genocides around the world?
> 
> The rest of the world might not be as resourceful (propaganda wise) but will hear no more lectures from those hyenas! I agree, our countries should take a clue and abandon these "democracy" dramas. Learn from the West if you want to develop yourself!
> 
> In the meanwhile deal with Putin, we aint taking no sides. Time, and not propaganda, will tell how it ends...


You still don't get it.

In any race, there are only 1 winner, you can say you have 2nd place or 3rd place, but in world view, you have 1 winner and 7 loser, nobody is going to remember who come 2nd in 2021 Mens 100 meters sprint race. Because nobody cares about losers, whether or not they are the 1st loser or the 7th,

You can call us Hyena 100 times on your TV, on your internet forum post, so what? How many people see that and care about that? One post from MSNBC calling you (Whatever name they call you) and you got stick with that, you want to talk about fair? Sad, but true. And you know what, vilify people like you who think the Western value is shit make money, they don't care about you, all they want is to make money, and what you are doing is helping them, not hurting them. The more you react this way, the more the west is going to report that and make money. Nothing else make as much money than setting someone as enemy.

And you think you are big enough or strong enough to challenge the existing system? If you really think so, then you are UBER naïve. The system is set up so no one can challenge anything, otherwise how else do you think there are "Veto" in UN security council? In world politic, you are either a prey or predictor, and there are ALWAYS going to be 5 Predators, and everyone else is a prey.

Nobody care about what you think, because to the people who have money and power to do something, you are nothing to them, you don't even worth 30 second on a news segment to talk about your plight, your story worth shit that nobody want to listen, and you think that is propaganda, maybe, but enough people buy that than your crap become mainstream.

I don't honestly care about what you think about the West, or what you think you can do, that does not concern me at all, at the end of the day, you live your life and I live mine, you hatred is none of my business, and none of most people business and people don't care. And you can either keep hating us, or find someone who have similar belief with you and hate us together, either way it didn't change a god damn thing, until you are stupid enough to act on it, then we will come F you up, and you know what, the world don't care about you, and hence don't care about we F you up, because, as I said, you are dirt if you don't have money and power, nobody cares until you give us a reason to care about you.

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## coffee_cup

That Guy said:


> It seems you didn't really pay attention to what he wrote.
> 
> You're doing a poor attempt at shaming him, because what you said is simply ridiculous.



May be I am too naive to believe in rule of law and justice.

That apparently does not exist in this world, might is still right. 

So why are we debating Russian invasion of Ukraine? According to the principal taught by the West, the did it because they could. Period.

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## That Guy

Ali_Baba said:


> For those who have not seen this site - useful to track what being reported as lost for the Russian side : https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html


@Musings 

this is the site I was talking about.

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## LeGenD

Ali_Baba said:


> For those who have not seen this site - useful to track what being reported as lost for the Russian side : https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html


Excellent link.

Added in following thread:






Repository of journalistic sources and how to use them with Russia - Ukraine War in focus and Fact-checking considerations


Dear members, Some members complain about the issue of reporting bias (and propaganda) in journalistic contents. These complaints were noticed in the following thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/ This thread is created to address the...



defence.pk





@PanzerKiel

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## nangyale

Oldman1 said:


> Or spread into Russia as well...
> 
> 
> LOL sure!


That's what NATO will try to do. 

But it would be a lot easier for these Orcs to go West because of open borders and their current herofication plus eventual demonisation.


----------



## dBSPL

still?





/facepalm/


----------



## iLION12345_1

kursed said:


> In genuine honesty, I don't think we can compare the Russian/Ukraine war with any wars in the recent past (those were fairly one-sided, with the Western powers enjoying a lop-sided advantage).
> 
> Given that Russian armor is facing somewhat modern weaponry at hands of Ukrainians and suffering due to it, where does that put our usage of armor, given Indian anti-armor capability? This is what I am most interested in knowing more about.
> 
> Do you anticipate Pakistan or India making fewer logistical, and operational mistakes than Russians or Ukrainians? (Keeping in mind events of Feb 26 and 27th both).
> 
> And I am tagging @PanzerKiel since he's written a lot about mistakes from 65', 71' wars. I'd love to know what he thinks of the current situation here and if it tells us anything about what the future might be like at our end.


Sorry it took me so long to get to this, been rather busy. I agree that this war can’t really be compared to others in recent history, but at the same time, in my opinion, it doesn’t compare too much to the Pakistan-india theatre either. Maybe it would be comparable if Ukraine and Russia had both made certain decisions; on Ukraines part it would have been to prepare for an invasion properly, and on Russias part it would have been to carry out said invasion properly.

The amount of mistakes made by either side are unprecedented, I don’t expect either india or Pakistan to do so poorly in regards to logistics and operational mistakes, simply because both the sides have been preparing for a war with each other for decades. Half the Russian troops didn’t even seem to know they were going to war…

Russia is invading Ukraine with basically no war plan, and Ukraine is defending the same way, in india and Pakistans case they have everything planned meticulously, in fact both the armies have been preparing for so long with war-games and exercises that they might be able to switch countries and Still know exactly what to do lol. They’ve played our more war-game scenarios than could occur in a real war. It’s rather impressive just how many contingencies either side has planned too, which force goes where, what to do in case X or Y occurs, how each other’s logistics work etc, nearly everything is known. 

What I’m trying to say is, the difference between the Indo-Pak and Ukrainian-Russian theatre would be that in our case, nearly everything is pre-planned, both armies will fight the war a certain way according to their doctrine. In the case of Russia-Ukraine, it’s a near sudden invasion and a rush to grab the capital. Pakistan and india have very different goals in a war against each other. So I totally expect them to make less mistakes. 

Another important point in this regard is that both Ukraine and Russia rely heavily on conscripts or reluctant volunteers with morale issues. In those countries the military is a last-ditch career for many. Such is not the case in the volunteer armies of Pakistan and india. Especially on the Pakistani side where the military is quite a respectable job with a larger than life image. Add to that Pakistans war fighting experience in the last 20 years that india lacks as well. 

Now coming to the part about Indian anti-armor capability, that really is a scary thought. In a PAK-IND scenario most of the losses on either side (tanks, armored vehicles etc) will not be to other tanks, they will be to ATGMs and other portable missile launchers, as we are seeing in Ukraine. As well as gunships and drones. And these losses will likely be massive on both sides. 

In this regard, India has rather impressive ATGM Arsenal as well as a lot of gunships on order. Pakistan is obviously trying to keep up with its own purchases in the same regard (Z-10ME, T-129B, HJ-12 etc) but has hit some snags in the way. However Pakistan has been inducting a lot of armed drones to cover for this gap. I’ve said it before that the Indian tank fleet is not really impressive when compared to Pakistans, but it’s all the supporting elements that will make it really dangerous for any Pakistan offensive. I hope both sides are looking at Ukraine and learning some lessons in this regard, Pakistan about ATGMs and India about drones. 

Another major issue in the Ukrainian theatre has been poor use of AD and Air forces. Russia, despite having a clear advantage in both, has failed to use them effectively, something I again don’t expect from Pakistan and India (27th February does make me rethink that at times), at least not to that level. PA and PAF have laid a lot of emphasis on joint exercises in the recent past to improve interoperability as well as SHORAD coverage for advancing armor columns, something I’m sure india and Russia practice too, but only a real war can show how effective said training was.

This is not to say that Pakistani and Indian militaries are better trained than Ukraine and Russia (I personally believe they are), but just that they have prepared for this war a lot longer, and at least on the Pakistani side there are far fewer morale, desertion and ghost soldier issues.

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## Oldman1

nangyale said:


> That's what NATO will try to do.
> 
> But it would be a lot easier for these Orcs to go West because of open borders and their current herofication plus eventual demonisation.


Russia has a very long border, so long you got terrorist attacks going back decades in Moscow and other places because of their conflicts.


----------



## jhungary

That Guy said:


> True; the Chinese seem to be developing their own version of the growler called the J-16D. Whichever Chinese guy convinced his boss to develop this fighter may be feeling vindicated by his decision.
> 
> If the Russians had such a system, they may have not suffered as many losses.


J-16D is far from EA-18G. 

It's not just about Jamming, this is about sensor infusion. I don't think China has any technology associated with this.


----------



## HydNizam

Fooling Indians since 2014

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## thetutle

coffee_cup said:


> What argument?
> 
> International law ceased to exist the day US/NATO illegally invaded Yogoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan etc etc, flattening cities and killing millions by carpet bombing, throwing cluster bombs, depleted uranium and what not.
> 
> And none of them ever brought to justice in ICC for genocides and war crimes.
> 
> So when the supreme intelligent beings from USA tell us "You dont invade smaller countries in 21st century", what does it exactly mean? Can you explain us normal mortals?


it means dont invade democracies that follow international law


----------



## Oldman1

Putin Threatens Ukraine 'Statehood' as Moscow Sanctions Tighten​








Putin Threatens Ukraine 'Statehood' as Moscow Sanctions Tighten - The Moscow Times


Russian President Vladimir Putin threatened the existence of Ukrainian statehood as his army's invasion of the neighbor faces stiff resistance Sunday and his economy is increasingly asphyxiated by sanctions.




www.themoscowtimes.com





Russian President Vladimir Putin threatened the existence of Ukrainian statehood as his army's invasion of the neighbor faces stiff resistance Sunday and his economy is increasingly asphyxiated by sanctions.

In the latest efforts to freeze Moscow out of the world economy, U.S.-based card payment giants Visa and Mastercard announced they will suspend operations in Russia, while world leaders vowed to act over the intensifying onslaught.

"The current (Ukrainian) authorities must understand that if they continue to do what they are doing, they are putting in question the future of Ukrainian statehood," Putin said on Saturday. 

"And if this happens, they will be fully responsible."


----------



## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> You still don't get it.
> 
> In any race, there are only 1 winner, you can say you have 2nd place or 3rd place, but in world view, you have 1 winner and 7 loser, nobody is going to remember who come 2nd in 2021 Mens 100 meters sprint race. Because nobody cares about losers, whether or not they are the 1st loser or the 7th,
> 
> You can call us Hyena 100 times on your TV, on your internet forum post, so what? How many people see that and care about that? One post from MSNBC calling you (Whatever name they call you) and you stuck got with that, you want to talk about fair? Sad, but true. And you know what, vilify people like you who think the Western value is shit make money, they don't care about you, all they want is to make money, and what you are doing is helping them, not hurting them. The more you react this way, the more the west is going to report that and make money. Nothing else make as much money than setting someone as enemy.
> 
> And you think you are big enough or strong enough to challenge the existing system? If you really think so, then you are UBER naïve. The system is set up so no one can challenge anything, otherwise how else do you think there are "Veto" in UN security council? In world politic, you are either a prey or predictor, and there are ALWAYS going to be 5 Predators, and everyone else is a prey.
> 
> Nobody care about what you think, because to the people who have money and power to do something, you are nothing to them, you don't even worth 30 second on a news segment to talk about your plight, your story worth shit that nobody want to listen, and you think that is propaganda, maybe, but enough people buy that than your crap then it become mainstream.
> 
> I don't honestly care about what you think about the West, or what you think you can do, that does not concern me at all, at the end of the day, you live your life and I live mine, you hatred is none of my business, and none of most people business and people don't care. And you can either keep hating us, or find someone who have similar belief with you and hate us together, either way it didn't change a god damn thing, until you are stupid enough to act on it, then we will come F you up, and you know what, the world don't care about you, and hence don't care about we F you up, because, as I said, you are dirt if you don't have money and power, nobody cares until you give us a reason to care about you.



I am not going to respond this long post which is nothing but repetition of the points you have made earlier.

By calling everyone around naive, less intelligent and what not and trying to portray yourself some sort of super hero by bragging about the places you have (not) served is laughable.

Because in reality, you know it and we know it. You are just a keyboard smasher like 60-70% of people here. So please do us all a favor and next time copy/paste texts from readily available online sources without spicing it up by adding some imaginary places where you have (not) served.


----------



## Dustom999

jhungary said:


> J-16D is far from EA-18G.
> 
> "sensor infusion. "

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## RescueRanger

@dBSPL expect some false narrative building against Turkiye based on this video below:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500437437549621256


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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> I am not going to respond this long post which is nothing but repetition of the points you have made earlier.
> 
> By calling everyone around naive, less intelligent and what not and trying to portray yourself some sort of super hero by bragging about the places you have (not) served is laughable.
> 
> Because in reality, you know it and we know it. You are just a keyboard smasher like 60-70% of people here. So please do us all a favor and next time copy/paste texts from readily available online sources without spicing it up by adding some imaginary places where you have (not) served.


I love the optimism you people displayed.

And lol, I don't honestly care about what you think of me, you think I asked for this title? you think I do this on purpose? Well, someone on top think I deserve it, so there are probably not much you can do about that.

As for what I served or where I served, I have mentioned that multiple time on here for everyone to see, what I said, what I didn't say nobody ask you to believe me, nobody force you to believe me, and I don't really care either way.

But stop pretending you know anything when you don't, you get called on and you can't just get away by calling other people a liar.


----------



## RescueRanger

Irpin:



Spoiler: Caution Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500427349132722176

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## jhungary

Dustom999 said:


> View attachment 821253











Sensor Fusion: The Secret Sauce that Makes the F-35 Revolutionary


F-35 jets turn pilots into “true tacticians.”




nationalinterest.org

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## coffee_cup

Meanwhile Russian gas supplies to Europe will continue, Gazprom says 109,5 million cubic meter will be supplied to Europe today alone.

And if another country buys gas from Russia, that would be violations of sanctions.

Interesting.

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## serenity

Dustom999 said:


> At whatever location Russian forces finally stops and starts consolidation, media will term as west succeed in halting Russian advance. Even if Russia takes control of entire Ukraine ( which I don't think is the objective here), west will say we saved poland et al



Some serious propaganda against Russia in full swing.

I don't know what to make of the grand strategy of all the major power groups (not necessarily just about countries/states). We need to realize the world is a dangerous ugly place with those holding power often a lot more invisible than appears.

Western propaganda right now is fucking disgusting. This reaches typical common Russian people and many peoples associated. They are willingly also playing with thermonuclear fire. Europeans at war again and this Hamartia Antidote guy has for the last few months been talking about savage Asians causing mayhem in the world and always fighting lol. Even India and China at the worst of it know how to deal with things and even if it comes to fighting, knowing how to de-escalate and limit severity. As bad as propaganda is, western propaganda is another level of scary and insidious... because it's partly so competent and shrewd.

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## Zibago

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500424300486086657
> 
> 
> Russians might probably win in the end but it'll be a phyrric victory. And given the state of the Russian economy,things will be just made worse. Not adding the insurgency that will follow... (if it hasn't already)


They will just create a puppet state controlled by ethnic Russians right in the middle that will be recognized by no one kind of like Kurdish republic


----------



## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


> Sensor Fusion: The Secret Sauce that Makes the F-35 Revolutionary
> 
> 
> F-35 jets turn pilots into “true tacticians.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nationalinterest.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 821256


How does one even do that to themselves 😂

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## Bilal.

LeGenD said:


> Russia might be able to accomplish its short term objectives in Ukraine but it will find it impractical to sustain its occupation of Ukraine in view of the type of sanctions it is being subjected to lately.
> 
> Ukrainian insurgency might have much more lifeline then some realize. Even Thailand is willing to support Ukraine in this respect.
> 
> @That Guy


And to flip the argument. What will Ukraine accomplish in the end other than utter destruction of their country, it’s towns and cities and it’s infrastructure. 

So strategic goal of neutralizing threat emanating from Ukraine would in a way be achieved. Wouldn’t it have been better if they had assured neutrality in the first place.


----------



## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> How does one even do that to themselves 😂


I don't know, ask the guy with the "haha" emoji

lol

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> You want the truth?
> 
> We can do whatever the hell we want because the people we killed are what the world consider as "Secondary People" They are not equal, they don't sell advertisement slot, and nobody in the west care enough to care about them. And nobody in the West would bat an eyelid when they died a horrible way.
> 
> It's like what Nick Nolte said in Hotel Rwanda
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world focus on Power and Money, and if your country did not have neither, then you are dirt, you want to look to the UN to help you? Well, you are either in US camp or in Russia Camp, and if you are stupid enough to go beside either one of those interest, you are stupid enough to get deal with by the UN. This is how UN was set up.
> 
> So in what way do you have enough "power" or "money" to put US or Russia or China or UK or France on trial? Nobody care about what you think, you can scream unfair all day long but at the end of the day you are just going to do that until you die and died bitterly in the end.
> 
> If you want to bring US to justice? Develop your economy so you can replace us. Otherwise, nobody will listen to you, because your opinion don't worth shit. And I am sorry for that, but that IS the truth. Whether you like it or not. This is how world politic works.



I would not go that far, Its just that these countries west against the western rules based order and got invaded. The problem was the insurgency. I really dont understand why a nation and a population would fight a democratic system, when they can just change it at the ballot box. The Iraqi insurgency really puzzled me.


----------



## nangyale

Oldman1 said:


> Russia has a very long border, so long you got terrorist attacks going back decades in Moscow and other places because of their conflicts.


Agreed. 

Although Russians have a better pain tolerance to these tactics than compared to say Poland, Germany or France.


----------



## Dustom999

jhungary said:


> Sensor Fusion: The Secret Sauce that Makes the F-35 Revolutionary
> 
> 
> F-35 jets turn pilots into “true tacticians.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nationalinterest.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 821256


Fusion= Infusion! Epic

Let= Inlet! 
Crease = Increase! 
Valid = Invalid!


----------



## RescueRanger

coffee_cup said:


> Meanwhile Russian gas supplies to Europe will continue, Gazprom says 109,5 million cubic meter will be supplied to Europe today alone.
> 
> And if another country buys gas from Russia, that would be violations of sanctions.
> 
> Interesting.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jhungary

Dustom999 said:


> Fusion= Infusion! Epic



Have you actually read the article I quote??

Or you are just react like a champ and read the title...

Sensory infusion as in Sensor Infusion Jamming System.......Literally mean a Jammer added Sensor functionality on it. F-35 is NOT a jammer, by the way, in case you missed that obvious fact.


----------



## Dustom999

jhungary said:


> Have you actually read the article I quote??
> 
> Or you are just react like a champ and read the title...
> 
> Sensory infusion as in Sensor Infusionary Jamming System.......Literally mean a Jammer added Sensor functionality on it. F-35 is NOT a jammer, by the way, in case you missed that obvious fact.


Can you post where they call sensor fusion as sensor Infusion?


----------



## thetutle

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> If Russia manages to weather the massive sanctions and meet their objectives in Ukraine(which is very likely imo). The West would have played all its non-kinetic soft power cards without having prevented what it was designed to. There will be a serious pshychological aftermath around the globe.



sanctions are going to work, it will just take time. they will cripple the Russian Military industrial machine in the long term.


----------



## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> MR , in Russia today you get arrested or beaten for demonstrating against the war , social media is blocked , and news agencies are closed if they fail to follow the official government line.
> 
> All this does nor happen in the west and is typical to a dictatorship ,like Russia has become.
> 
> Sure , all news reports today should be read with caution .
> 
> But between news agencies of a democracy and those of a dictatorship , i will choose those of a democracy every time.
> 
> You are talking of a totally different world when it comes to free press.
> 
> ~


in west you can go to prison if you don't have the correct political view , and what freedom of speech at least this conflict show s there is no freedom of speech in west and even cats and Olympic are political and all the talk about non political this and non political that is just lie
news agencies in dictatorial environment serve the dictators and in so called freedom serve the one with bigger money


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> I would not go that far, Its just that these countries west against the western rules based order and got invaded. The problem was the insurgency. I really dont understand why a nation and a population would fight a democratic system, when they can just change it at the ballot box. The Iraqi insurgency really puzzled me.



There are multiple issue for an insurgency, most of which is about power, but I would say mostly it's about power or trying to stay in power 

But I think this is over the scope of this discussion


Dustom999 said:


> Can you post where they call sensor fusion as sensor Infusion?


Oh my god.

Can you do maths? what 1 + 1 equal to?

infusion
[ɪnˈfjuːʒ(ə)n]

the introduction of a new element or quality into something

If you have no idea what infusion is in English, then I can't help you.

Did I ever say "sensor fusion" is called "Sensor infusion"? where did I say that, please let me know.


----------



## Wood

Joe Shearer said:


> Don't EVER estimate the day-to-day bungles that take place.
> 
> One of the most interesting jobs that we took up for the IAF was an audio-visual to teach maintenance crew how to service ejection seats without getting their hands blown off.


I was only half joking with that comment.

I can imagine the practical liabilities with this type of realignment. But I also think that dependency on Russian supplied hardware in any way with China has considerable risk because of current geopolitical alignment. Ideal scenario would be for India to use indigenous equipment. That however seems ever illusive.


----------



## Dustom999

jhungary said:


> There are multiple issue for an insurgency
> 
> Oh my god.
> 
> Can you do maths? what 1 + 1 equal to?
> 
> infusion
> [ɪnˈfjuːʒ(ə)n]
> 
> the introduction of a new element or quality into something
> 
> If you have no idea what infusion is in English, then I can't help you.


So you invented your own tech term for sensor fusion. Sensor Infusion.

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## coffee_cup

thetutle said:


> sanctions are going to work, it will just take time. they will cripple the Russian Military industrial machine in the long term.



Despite mother of all sanctions, Europe is paying around 1 billion Euros per day. That is like 10 billion in the last 10 days.

I dont see Russia becoming next North Korea anytime soon where people are starving to death.

Basic needs such as shelter, food, water, medicine are abundant in Russia. So for the sanctions to work really, they have to stay for 5-10 years.

And I have a feeling, they wont stay in current form for more than a year.

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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500141642472312837



Uncle Jiang will be proud










1938 Yellow River flood - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## sammuel

Hack-Hook said:


> in west you can go to prison if you don't have the correct political view ,



BS

Over 1,000 detained across Russia at anti-war protests: Monitor​_OVD-Info says protests have been held in 35 cities including the Pacific port city of Vladivostok and the Siberian city of Irkutsk._







More than 1,100 people have been detained in 35 cities across Russia at protests against President Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, according to an independent Russian-based protest monitor.

The OVD-Info protest monitoring group said on Sunday the arrests were in cities including the Pacific port city of Vladivostok and the Siberian city of Irkutsk. Opposition activists posted videos showing protests in other cities.

It was not possible to independently verify the information, but various social media posts purportedly showed protests in different parts of Russia on Sunday.

There was no immediate comment by Russian authorities but on Saturday, the interior ministry had warned that any attempt to hold unauthorised protests would be prevented and the organisers would be held to account.

The 1,103 arrests by approximately 2:20pm Moscow time (11:20 GMT) on Sunday brought the total number of people held in anti-war protests since the invasion began on February 24 to 9,472, OVD-Info said.

Navalny call​A video posted on social media showed a protester in a square in the far eastern city of Khabarovsk shouting: “No to war – how are you not ashamed” before two policemen arrested him.

Police used loudspeakers to tell a small group of protesters in Khabarovsk: “Respected citizens, you are taking part in an unsanctioned public event. We demand you disperse.”









Over 4,000 arrested across Russia at anti-war protests: Monitor


OVD-Info says 4,366 arrests made in 56 cities including Pacific port city of Vladivostok and Siberian city of Irkutsk.




www.aljazeera.com


----------



## thetutle

coffee_cup said:


> So why are we debating Russian invasion of Ukraine? According to the principal taught by the West, the did it because they could. Period.


Exactly.And now Russia has to play the price. And if the price not high enough they will just continue until they rule the whole world.


----------



## maverick1977

thetutle said:


> Let Russia do it. What groups will this be?



Lets do it ? it shouldnt happen, but Russia might counter this way…
Russians themselves, including Chechens, Dagestanis, and even central Asian states, they might use local handlers who might be disenfranchised Hungarians, polish, Romanians..
FSB (KGB) might get very busy to counter Wests efforts of pouring manpads, atmgs into Ukraine..
I forsee war escalating… Its sad, i hope sanity will prevail and people can live a normal life..


----------



## jhungary

Dustom999 said:


> So you invented your own tech term for sensor fusion. Sensor Infusion.



What tech term? WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU talking about? This is what I said



jhungary said:


> J-16D is far from EA-18G.
> 
> It's not just about Jamming, this is about sensor infusion. I don't think China has any technology associated with this.



What term did I made up? I am using an English word called "infusion" to express my point that EA-18G have Sensor ADDED to the Jammer,

again, the dictionary definition of Infusion is

infusion
[ɪnˈfjuːʒ(ə)n]

the introduction of a new element or quality into something.

Do tell me how am I using the word 'Infusion" wrong? Or are you saying I cannot use "word" to express my point?


----------



## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> I doubt you speak from personal experience in the air force.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is a 'determined' enemy? it is a meaningless phrase. The default position is that all enemies are determined regardless of how much weapons they have, how many soldiers/airmen/sailors available, and so on. We *CANNOT* assume that the enemy is any less determined to defend than we are to attack. So your statement is meaningless to start.
> 
> But as far as the USAF go, if your airbase is designated, we *WILL* make it there. In the image above, one B-2 dropped six bombs at the Obvra airbase runway. The four runway-taxiway intersections were cratered to prevent aircraft movements. The two other craters neatly dissected the runways into segments too short to use by any aircraft except for helos. The result is that the runways will be out of operation for at least 1/2 day. In that time, we will see no threat from that base. The mission is called *'runway denial'*. There is a science to this. Just because Iran does not have that knowledge does not mean no one else does.
> 
> A flying base without a functional runway is useless. Everything on a flying base is there to support the aircrafts. But if the runway is damaged, the entire base is useless. We can destroy runways, simple as that.


a determined enemy used the road beside the base for taking off those migs .
if its a possibility , runway denial is nothing but a myth








specially when mig-29 can take off like this


----------



## LeGenD

Bilal. said:


> And to flip the argument. What will Ukraine accomplish in the end other than utter destruction of their country, it’s towns and cities and it’s infrastructure.
> 
> So strategic goal of neutralizing threat emanating from Ukraine would in a way be achieved. Wouldn’t it have been better if they had assured neutrality in the first place.


Friend,

This war must be stopped or it will take a tremendous toll on both Ukraine (destruction) and Russia (economy) in the long term. Putin must consider political solution for this war; he has overplayed his cards in this matter. He underestimated Ukraine, European identity, and NATO in the process. This war will also leave Russian military battered, and Russians will be increasingly vulnerable to poverty in the long term.

Pakistani FM has conveyed similar message to Russian FM recently:

_Underlining Islamabad's concerns over the situation in Ukraine today, Qureshi highlighted during his conversation with Lavrov that Pakistan had been emphasising the significance of fundamental principles of the United Nations (UN) Charter to deal with the situation.

He told Lavrov that Pakistan had called for "de-escalation and underscored the need for a diplomatic solution in accordance with the relevant multilateral agreements, international law, and provisions of the UN Charter," the FO statement said.

Qureshi further informed the Russian foreign minister about his recent phone conversations with counterparts from Ukraine, Poland, Romania and Hungary, as well as with the high representative of the European Union, in which he had shared "Pakistan’s principled position and stressed the importance of finding a solution [to the Russia-Ukraine conflict] through dialogue and diplomacy"._






Shah Mahmood Qureshi called Russia FM


ISLAMABAD: Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi held a telephone call with his Russian counterpart,




www.paktribune.com

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500400899189055490


----------



## coffee_cup

thetutle said:


> Exactly.And now Russia has to play the price. And if the price not high enough they will just continue until they rule the whole world.



May be it is a problem for the West.

I seriously doubt that the rest of the world cares who is it who rules the world. 

West or Russia - both are the same.


Though with Russia, they wont have to hear the lectures about democracy, human rights, freedom of expression and so on. Just giving you perspective of a 3rd world country.

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## Naram_Sin

thetutle said:


> I would not go that far, Its just that these countries west against the western rules based order and got invaded. The problem was the insurgency. I really dont understand why a nation and a population would fight a democratic system, when they can just change it at the ballot box. *The Iraqi insurgency really puzzled me*.


No need to be puzzled, one look at the map should clarify everything.

State destroyed, power vacuum, regional actors pour in to compete for influence/minimize potential threats, militias created... Etc.

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## RescueRanger

Further to my write up a few hundred pages back— this is just the beginning :


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498191420703883264

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## jamal18

Nelson Mandela's view.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500055171669401601

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## Dustom999

jhungary said:


> What tech term? WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU talking about? This is what I said
> 
> 
> 
> What term did I made up? I am using an English word called "infusion" to express my point that EA-18G have Sensor ADDED to the Jammer.


Can you point out some credible literature where someone apart from self professed James Bond talk about this particular sensor infusion on EA-18g. Let's see what sensor have they infused. Or were they talking about fusing data from several sensors and assets to paint a reliable real time battlefield situation.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500391169443958785


----------



## That Guy

coffee_cup said:


> May be I am too naive to believe in rule of law and justice.
> 
> That apparently does not exist in this world, might is still right.
> 
> So why are we debating Russian invasion of Ukraine? According to the principal taught by the West, the did it because they could. Period.


No one who's seriously looking at this war is really debating the moral implications of the invasion, because it doesn't matter. What matters is the geopolitical implications.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500436183767306240

Russian artillery unit completely destroyed

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## coffee_cup

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500391169443958785



At the moment only Ukrainian military uses that? 

Why does it smell fishy? I dont want to go that far, but given the current propaganda war, I wont be surprised if it is a preparation for a false flag.

All is so foggy right now...


----------



## Ashesh

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500400899189055490



👇👇👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497849071335264259

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500352783488364546

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## jhungary

Dustom999 said:


> Can you point out some credible literature where someone apart from self professed James Bond talk about this particular sensor infusion on EA-18g. Let's see what sensor have they infused. Or were they talking about fusing data from several sensors and assets to paint a reliable real time battlefield situation.


EA-18G targeting and data systems upgrades demonstrated by US Navy, Boeing​








EA-18G targeting and data systems upgrades demonstrated by US Navy, Boeing - Military Embedded Systems


ST. LOUIS. A demonstration by the U.S. Navy displayed the new data network and sensor system upgrades on the Boeing EA-18G Growler aircraft. The demonstration occurred during the July 15 – 19 Navy Fleet Experimentation (FLEX) campaign at Patuxent River Naval Air Station, Maryland, and showed how...




militaryembedded.com





*ST. LOUIS. A demonstration by the U.S. Navy displayed the new data network and sensor system upgrades on the Boeing EA-18G Growler aircraft. The demonstration occurred during the July 15 – 19 Navy Fleet Experimentation (FLEX) campaign at Patuxent River Naval Air Station, Maryland, and showed how the new capabilities will improve the ability of aircrews to locate threats.*​During the FLEX experiment, an EA-18G Growler operated on secure,* high-speed network technology that allowed real-time sharing of targeting data.* The technology was implemented in the aircraft through a series of upgrades, and will be incorporated into deployed Growler Electronic Attack (EA) aircraft in 2018.

"These enhancements provide a significantly faster, more accurate, and adaptable targeting solution for the Navy and allied forces," says Captain Frank Morley, Program Manager, U.S. Navy F/A-18 and EA-18G. "The result is a more capable EA-18G that is better able to control the EA spectrum."

The targeting and data system upgrades will be standard on future EA-18G platforms, while retrofits are planned for existing Growler aircraft.

*Comon man, it took less than 5 second to look up article, can you just get off your arse just for once and don't need anyone feed you stuff?

I know you may enjoy free lunch, but still..........*


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500381068326752256


----------



## maverick1977

CNN is projecting that 10 thousand Russian troops have died in last 10 days of war. 
😳… i doubt more than a 1000 Russians have died

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## That Guy

jhungary said:


> J-16D is far from EA-18G.
> 
> It's not just about Jamming, this is about sensor infusion. I don't think China has any technology associated with this.


Still, don't be surprised if they're working on it NOW.

While it's certainly not the EA-18G, it doesn't have to be. It just has to be good enough to fulfill its task.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500389688334553094

Destroyed Russian Tor system northeast of Kiev


----------



## That Guy

maverick1977 said:


> CNN is projecting that 10 thousand Russian troops have died in last 10 days of war.
> 😳… i doubt more than a 1000 Russians have died


A few thousand have probably died on both sides. The 10,000 figure comes from the UkrMOD.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500389688334553094
> 
> Destroyed Russian Tor system northeast of Kiev


Nooooo, stop destroying Ukrainian farming equipment 😭😭

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## thetutle

Bilal. said:


> And to flip the argument. What will Ukraine accomplish in the end other than utter destruction of their country, it’s towns and cities and it’s infrastructure.


The slow and steady destruction of Russia its military and economy.


----------



## 8888888888888

V. Makarov said:


> Sorry if this is a repost, but Johnny Harris is an independent journalist who explained this war better than most.
> 
> 
> View attachment 821231


No, he a YouTuber getting money from views so his video is just another Ukraine will win over Russia propaganda.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500438331624206336

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500358130861023232


----------



## jhungary

Dustom999 said:


> Can you point out some credible literature where someone apart from self professed James Bond talk about this particular sensor infusion on EA-18g. Let's see what sensor have they infused. Or were they talking about fusing data from several sensors and assets to paint a reliable real time battlefield situation.


Another article, from USNI.org









Boeing to Retrofit Existing EA-18G Growler Fleet - USNI News


Boeing is developing upgrades to the Navy’s existing EA-18G Growler fleet to quickly deliver a Block II aircraft with improved sensor capabilities and more efficient fuel tanks.




news.usni.org





Aviation Boatswain’s Mate (Equipment) Airman Daniel Brown verifies the weight of an EA-18G Growler, assigned to the “Rooks” of Electronic Attack Squadron (VAQ) 137, on the flight deck aboard the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS Harry S. Truman (CVN-75) on Nov. 8, 2018. US Navy Photo

NATIONAL HARBOR, Md. – Boeing is developing upgrades to the Navy’s existing EA-18G Growler fleet to quickly deliver a *Block II electronic warfare aircraft with improved sensor capabilities* and more efficient fuel tanks.



Boeing plans to have system functional requirements for the Growler Block II upgrades by the end of the year, Jennifer Tebo, Boeing’s director of development for the F-18 Super Hornet. Tebo spoke about the Growler upgrades Tuesday at the 2019 Sea-Air-Space expo.

“The thinking of Growler at this time is that it’s a retrofit program to deliver capability in the 2025-time frame,” Tebo told USNI News.

To deliver new capabilities to the Navy faster, the service opted to have its existing Growler fleet brought in for upgrades, which will incorporate new sensors and some of the Super Hornet Block III upgrades — like conformal fuel tanks.

The Growler is a variant of Boeing’s F-18F Super Hornet. The aircraft provides tactical jamming and electronic protection to the carrier air wing.

Boeing is installing the conformal fuel tanks behind the cockpit. The conformal tanks hold slightly less fuel than external tanks, however, in the case of the Super Hornets, the conformal tanks are lighter and make the jets more aerodynamic, resulting in an increased range of about 129 nautical miles, Boeing officials previously stated.

The Growler’s sensors upgrades will do some of the analysis work previously done by pilots, enabling the pilots to process data more efficiently, Tebo said.

“It’s about bringing in all this data and taking the workload off the pilots,” Tebo said of the Block II upgrades. “As they get data, data, data, what do they do with that? So we’re giving them decision aids and tools in the cockpit. The system will be dynamic and adaptive, able to process large amounts of data but also be easily upgradeable in the future as threats change. Over the life of the aircraft, Tebo said the Navy would be able to upgrade the sensors systems rapidly.

“We know the threats are evolving fast, so we need to keep pace, and that is a key point of Growler Block II,” Tebo said.


----------



## 8888888888888

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500393165194465283


no bombers being used yet.


----------



## LeGenD

Dustom999 said:


> Can you point out some credible literature where someone apart from self professed James Bond talk about this particular sensor infusion on EA-18g. Let's see what sensor have they infused. Or were they talking about fusing data from several sensors and assets to paint a reliable real time battlefield situation.


Sensor infusion? Is this even a valid term?

F/A-18 Super Hornet does have very advanced level of sensor fusion.






Super Hornet Demonstrates ‘Eye-Watering’ Sensor Fusion | Aviation Week Network


During Fleet Exercise 2017, two U.S. Navy Super Hornets were able to fuse data from multiple sensors on both aircraft in near real-time to form a “common tactical picture,” Boeing says.




aviationweek.com

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500412291459784704


----------



## thetutle

coffee_cup said:


> Despite mother of all sanctions, Europe is paying around 1 billion Euros per day. That is like 10 billion in the last 10 days.
> 
> I dont see Russia becoming next North Korea anytime soon where people are starving to death.
> 
> Basic needs such as shelter, food, water, medicine are abundant in Russia. So for the sanctions to work really, they have to stay for 5-10 years.
> 
> And I have a feeling, they wont stay in current form for more than a year.



They wil stay until "regime change". if it takes 50 years, There is no circumstance where the west accepts Russias occupation of Ukraine.


----------



## jhungary

That Guy said:


> Still, don't be surprised if they're working on it NOW.
> 
> While it's certainly not the EA-18G, it doesn't have to be. It just has to be good enough to fulfill its task.


Depends, no one know what's a J-16D is like, If it is like EF-111 or EA-6B then it wouldn't do much, it really depends on the capability of the Chinese.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500436947516461058


----------



## Enigma SIG

Social media just increasing their influence by leveraging the Ukraine war. You could literally post pics of Israeli bombing campaigns on Gaza and pass them off as Russians bombing Ukraine with the world support pouring in.

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## Ashesh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500446536949452803


----------



## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500412291459784704


A friend of mine just got out of there like 10 days ago...







I left Nova Kakhovka on the first day of the war. On February 24, at 5 in the morning, we, like all Ukraine, woke up to the sound of bombs. I called my mom, who spent the night at the cottage, and asked if I had gone crazy. Does she hear the same thing. She heard and heard even harder. The earth trembled at the Energetik cottages, where the Russians have now set up their grads. We managed to fill up a full tank of gas, packed our things and decided to go with the kids. Drive out of the city, drive for the hydroelectric power plant, over the bridge. To anywhere but faster. Two hours later, when we approached Nikolaev, our New Kakhovka was already occupied by the Russian army. We spent the night in Nikolaev, where my dad's friends received us. People whom I never knew before, but who knew what situation I was in, who fled from the "liberators" from native Donetsk 8 years ago. Early in the morning headed to the Moldovan border. We knew the border was closed and no one was allowed in, but we decided to take a chance. We have relatives here in Transnistria, I was born here in 1988, and most of my life was lived by my mother. We've been missed. Us, and another woman with a child. I've been sleeping in silence for the third night, but I still have shivers from the noise of the garbage truck under the window. It's scary for me to imagine what mothers who remained in Ukraine have experienced and are going through now. #glorytoukraine #wewillwin #palyanytsia #russianshipfuckyou


----------



## Song Hong

Russian EW units. You never see any marketing on Turk TB2 drone these days. Russian has low opinion on TB2 and think that it is useless.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500450526131064832


----------



## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Either way it does not spell a rosy picture for the Russian advance, and I can only see Putin would whip their general and they may have to take the risk themselves, I would not be envy those in charge right now..



3) Things are desperate enough, and comms breakdown is bad enough for generals having to go into the field

News of generals being killed instantly rose my eyebrows.

How? Why 3 at the same time? What is in the world their command hierarchy if Putin's colonels are apparently sitting in Minsk running the operation, when their generals are doing god knows what in the field?

Then I remembered the news of Ukrainian arty picking off Russian comms/command vehicles in the first days of war. This is when it all snapped into places.

Ukrainian have solid radio recon capability being used to fire on Russian radio sources.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500423351122206721
Holy crap, that Russian convoy was flattened

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## thetutle

maverick1977 said:


> Lets do it ? it shouldnt happen, but Russia might counter this way…
> Russians themselves, including Chechens, Dagestanis, and even central Asian states, they might use local handlers who might be disenfranchised Hungarians, polish, Romanians..
> FSB (KGB) might get very busy to counter Wests efforts of pouring manpads, atmgs into Ukraine..
> I forsee war escalating… Its sad, i hope sanity will prevail and people can live a normal life..



I think everyone in Europe will choose total war or even nuclear war over living under Russia's control. 

Russian spies wil do whatever they have to do. But they will be hunted down all over the world just like in the cold war. 

Dont forget, we won the Cold War. We will win the new Cold War too.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Every Single Weapon Europe Is Sending to Ukraine (So Far)


Tanks and aircraft-killing weapons top the list.




www.popularmechanics.com


----------



## mmr

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500438331624206336


Yikes.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500443472280625157

Mig-29s and SU-25s looking like a real possibility for Ukraine. Supplied by Poland. Poland would receive F-16s

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## thetutle

Like in the Cold War, all countries will have a choice. Some will choose Russia. And thats fine. They will be in that camp. 

This time around, Russia won't be as destructive as the USSR, but will definitely only offer poverty and destitution to all its allies. 

this is the new Cold War. Biden warned about it. He said if Russia invades it will "change the world". The west will never ever ever allow Russia to control a European democracy and enslave it. 

this can only end 2 ways. Russia controlling all of Europe or Russia pulling back and paying for all the destruction. There is no third option.


----------



## serenity

If Russia is really losing 5% to 10% of equipment sent out and presumably also soldiers, then Russia must rethink the war. They wouldn't last long until totally depleted and whether objectives by then are achieved?

Perhaps this is information from Ukrainian side or a side with interest in perpetuating that false information.

If so, then Putin is potentially the worst traitor for Russia and Russian people IF this "information" is accurate and Russia doesn't re-position and find other strategies for their objectives. Putin willingly and stubbornly losing 5% to 10% Russian military on every move means roughly 2 to 3 weeks before depleted. That willingness to lose things for hardly any real gain means Putin is doing this intentionally. Information needs to be doubted and then doubted, and then ignored until more clarity and further verifications build us a better resolution of the picture of reality.

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## jamahir

thetutle said:


> this can only end 2 ways. Russia controlling all of Europe or Russia pulling back and paying for all the destruction. There is no third option.



So your two options are : Russia iz Evilz and Russia iz Evilz.


----------



## Bilal.

thetutle said:


> The slow and steady destruction of Russia its military and economy.


Except. They will cripple Ukraine even if it pull out. The war is being fought in Ukrainian land. Even a thousand tank destroyed and ten thousand trucks destroyed pale in comparison to the destruction of cities and infrastructure being endured by Ukraine.


----------



## serenity

thetutle said:


> Like in the Cold War, all countries will have a choice. Some will choose Russia. And thats fine. They will be in that camp.
> 
> This time around, Russia won't be as destructive as the USSR, but will definitely only offer poverty and destitution to all its allies.
> 
> this is the new Cold War. Biden warned about it. He said if Russia invades it will "change the world". The west will never ever ever allow Russia to control a European democracy and enslave it.
> 
> this can only end 2 ways. Russia controlling all of Europe or Russia pulling back and paying for all the destruction. There is no third option.



There is an unthinkable third possibility. May God above prevent that and help all who are righteous.


----------



## Joe Shearer

Wood said:


> I was only half joking with that comment.
> 
> I can imagine the practical liabilities with this type of realignment. But I also think that dependency on Russian supplied hardware in any way with China has considerable risk because of current geopolitical alignment. Ideal scenario would be for India to use indigenous equipment. That however seems ever illusive.


The day someone has the guts to cut off imports - ALL imports - our defence will take a quantum leap upwards.


----------



## INDIAPOSITIVE

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500444400752955394


----------



## Hack-Hook

dBSPL said:


> still?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> /facepalm/


they are obsessed with these legacies, they have anything to made these bomb fly at least 50km and hit targets precisely and still .......

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500213943012319252

Very good thread on the disastrous state of Russian logistics. Russian vehicles going to run out of fuel


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> 3) Things are desperate enough, and comms breakdown is bad enough for generals having to go into the field
> 
> News of generals being killed instantly rose my eyebrows.
> 
> How? Why 3 at the same time? What is in the world their command hierarchy if Putin's colonels are apparently sitting in Minsk running the operation, when their generals are doing god knows what in the field?
> 
> Then I remembered the news of Ukrainian arty picking off Russian comms/command vehicles in the first days of war. This is when it all snapped into places.
> 
> Ukrainian have solid radio recon capability being used to fire on Russian radio sources.


Can it be?

If so, then the Russian situation is more dire than I thought. 

Well, to be fair, intelligence is not hard to come by, there are rumour that FSB actually leak intelligence to Ukrainian SZR and Zelenskyy survive 3 assassination attempt because of FSB intelligence









Ukraine president Zelenskyy 'survived three assassination attempts in past week'


Two set of mercenaries are reported to have entered Ukraine and are making attempts on Zelenskyy's life




uk.news.yahoo.com





Which mean if this is true, it's not hard to know where the general will visit and lay ambush on them. But I don't think this is true, because, well, it's too good to be true...


----------



## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500443472280625157
> 
> Mig-29s and SU-25s looking like a real possibility for Ukraine. Supplied by Poland. Poland would receive F-16s



I am guessing that the variant of F16s that Poland already flies are in USAF service already and given that Poland is NATO compatible already - this is the simplest solution. Transfer direct from USAF stocks and backfill the USAF stocks with new builds.


----------



## mili

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500412291459784704


lol, this is actually 'propaganda' for Russia showing the civilians are treated well, they don't fear Russian soldiers & even allowed to rally.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500454880212889602


----------



## coffee_cup

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500443472280625157
> 
> Mig-29s and SU-25s looking like a real possibility for Ukraine. Supplied by Poland. Poland would receive F-16s



Poland has today categorically stated, there wont be any planes for Ukraine and they wont let them use their airstrips as well.


----------



## F-22Raptor

coffee_cup said:


> Poland has today categorically stated, there wont be any planes for Ukraine and they wont let them use their airstrips as well.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500454581767127051


----------



## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> BS
> 
> Over 1,000 detained across Russia at anti-war protests: Monitor​_OVD-Info says protests have been held in 35 cities including the Pacific port city of Vladivostok and the Siberian city of Irkutsk._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More than 1,100 people have been detained in 35 cities across Russia at protests against President Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, according to an independent Russian-based protest monitor.
> 
> The OVD-Info protest monitoring group said on Sunday the arrests were in cities including the Pacific port city of Vladivostok and the Siberian city of Irkutsk. Opposition activists posted videos showing protests in other cities.
> 
> It was not possible to independently verify the information, but various social media posts purportedly showed protests in different parts of Russia on Sunday.
> 
> There was no immediate comment by Russian authorities but on Saturday, the interior ministry had warned that any attempt to hold unauthorised protests would be prevented and the organisers would be held to account.
> 
> The 1,103 arrests by approximately 2:20pm Moscow time (11:20 GMT) on Sunday brought the total number of people held in anti-war protests since the invasion began on February 24 to 9,472, OVD-Info said.
> 
> Navalny call​A video posted on social media showed a protester in a square in the far eastern city of Khabarovsk shouting: “No to war – how are you not ashamed” before two policemen arrested him.
> 
> Police used loudspeakers to tell a small group of protesters in Khabarovsk: “Respected citizens, you are taking part in an unsanctioned public event. We demand you disperse.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over 4,000 arrested across Russia at anti-war protests: Monitor
> 
> 
> OVD-Info says 4,366 arrests made in 56 cities including Pacific port city of Vladivostok and Siberian city of Irkutsk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com


how many arrested in France over protest against Sarkuzy ? what about usa


----------



## jhungary

LeGenD said:


> Sensor infusion? Is this even a valid term?
> 
> F/A-18 Super Hornet does have very advanced level of sensor fusion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Super Hornet Demonstrates ‘Eye-Watering’ Sensor Fusion | Aviation Week Network
> 
> 
> During Fleet Exercise 2017, two U.S. Navy Super Hornets were able to fuse data from multiple sensors on both aircraft in near real-time to form a “common tactical picture,” Boeing says.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aviationweek.com



That guy is playing with my word. I said this



jhungary said:


> J-16D is far from EA-18G.
> 
> It's not just about Jamming, this is about sensor infusion. I don't think China has any technology associated with this.


I used the word "infusion" mean sensor being added into jamming capability into EA-18G, and he go gaga and say I invented some technical term. When I was just literally using the meaning of the word "Infusion"

You can literally see how I use the word, he just taken it out of context and literally ran with it.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500456995186479114

More captured Russian equipment

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## Wood

Joe Shearer said:


> The day someone has the guts to cut off imports - ALL imports - our defence will take a quantum leap upwards.


I'm not in the armed services. But even I can imagine that this type of cold turkey swadeshi attitude is suicidal. The military adversaries for India are now equipped to beat state of the art tech. Indian industries are not capable of rising to the challenge any time soon. 

PS: This may be a conversation for a different thread. So let's park this for a different time

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## Hack-Hook

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500400899189055490


wasn't it the bridge Ukrainian themselves bombed and destroyed to stop advancing of Russians army ?

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## coffee_cup

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500454581767127051



"Actively working with Poland to provide ..." means nothing.

Poland has already refuted those reports and categorically stated there wont be any planes. So why dont we just wait a few more days and see?


----------



## Wood

Hack-Hook said:


> wasn't it the bridge Ukrainian themselves bombed and destroyed to stop advancing of Russians army ?


The shelling reported are after the destruction of the bridge


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500375713748291586

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## Elvin

The amount of disinformation and misuse of social media platforms is baffling. The lack of objective news sources that educate the masses about this conflict is staggering.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500306810749788165


----------



## thetutle

Bilal. said:


> Except. They will cripple Ukraine even if it pull out. The war is being fought in Ukrainian land. Even a thousand tank destroyed and ten thousand trucks destroyed pale in comparison to the destruction of cities and infrastructure being endured by Ukraine.



If Russia pull out, thats fine, EU will help them rebuild and arm them again. Germany is spending 100 billion on weapons this year. If there is no Russia threatening them, they can Gove that to Ukraine for a few years, in the form of investment etc. 

All new cities and factories owned by germans. Its fine.


----------



## Bilal.

thetutle said:


> If Russia pull out, thats fine, EU will help them rebuild and arm them again. Germany is spending 100 billion on weapons this year. If there is no Russia threatening them, they can Gove that to Ukraine for a few years, in the form of investment etc.
> 
> All new cities and factories owned by germans. Its fine.


🤦‍♂️


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500264314875359238

Elon you legend!!!

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## Ashesh

INDIAPOSITIVE said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500444400752955394


 German Chancellor said 'NO' to Ukraine Joining #NATO.


----------



## Joe Shearer

Wood said:


> I'm not in the armed services. But even I can imagine that this type of cold turkey swadeshi attitude is suicidal. The military adversaries for India are now equipped to beat state of the art tech. Indian industries are not capable of rising to the challenge any time soon.
> 
> PS: This may be a conversation for a different thread. So let's park this for a different time


I know what you are saying, but we need to start somewhere.

Yes, you are right, start a thread and I will join you.

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## mmr

thetutle said:


> If Russia pull out, thats fine, EU will help them rebuild and arm them again. Germany is spending 100 billion on weapons this year. If there is no Russia threatening them, they can Gove that to Ukraine for a few years, in the form of investment etc.
> 
> All new cities and factories owned by germans. Its fine.


Ukraine will be re build with the full support of west. With full access to eu membership. Eu already approved any Ukrainian citizens work in eu for 3 years and become permanent citizens after that if they want. Canada has announced it will invite unlimited number of Ukrainian as long they want to come here. There are talks of get rid of even visa for Ukrainian citizens to come to canada. Thats the level of support Ukrainian have in the west. 

Russia one the other hand is done and economy only get worse in coming years.


----------



## Paul2

8888888888888 said:


> no bombers being used yet.



Tu 22 is a heavy bomber by all accounts, and Russians were ready to risk it for Kharkiv


----------



## jamal18

RT, on Ukrainian trops doing a runner. Seems genuine.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500456167910354948

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500463146342965250
More Russian equipment destroyed and Russian POW


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500455680628699139

Anti war protestors in Moscow


----------



## jamal18

President Zelensky's net worth is reported to be $596 million.

Not bad for someone in a poor eastern European country.









Zelensky Net Worth is $596 Million (2022) Rich Lifestyle Ukraine President


Zelensky's Net Worth is $596 Million US Dollars. Volodymyr Zelensky is a Ukrainian politician, former actor and comedian who has been serving as the president




caknowledge.com


----------



## That Guy

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500443472280625157
> 
> Mig-29s and SU-25s looking like a real possibility for Ukraine. Supplied by Poland. Poland would receive F-16s


Either vipers or hornets. The Poles will be glad to be rid of their Russian junk, so long as the US guarantees a fighter supply.



jamal18 said:


> President Zelensky's net worth is reported to be $596 million.
> 
> Not bad for someone in a poor eastern European country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zelensky Net Worth is $596 Million (2022) Rich Lifestyle Ukraine President
> 
> 
> Zelensky's Net Worth is $596 Million US Dollars. Volodymyr Zelensky is a Ukrainian politician, former actor and comedian who has been serving as the president
> 
> 
> 
> 
> caknowledge.com


He's a former actor turned politician. Not really worth mentioning.


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500225498869374989
A little humor

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## Paul2

serenity said:


> If Russia is really losing 5% to 10% of equipment sent out and presumably also soldiers, then Russia must rethink the war. They wouldn't last long until totally depleted and whether objectives by then are achieved?
> 
> Perhaps this is information from Ukrainian side or a side with interest in perpetuating that false information.
> 
> If so, then Putin is potentially the worst traitor for Russia and Russian people IF this "information" is accurate and Russia doesn't re-position and find other strategies for their objectives. Putin willingly and stubbornly losing 5% to 10% Russian military on every move means roughly 2 to 3 weeks before depleted. That willingness to lose things for hardly any real gain means Putin is doing this intentionally. Information needs to be doubted and then doubted, and then ignored until more clarity and further verifications build us a better resolution of the picture of reality.



Half of big name items of Russia is in the Ukrainian theatre.

The rest is "reserve," but more like equipment in storage, and light motorised mounted on light APCs, and trucks.

If Russia flees disorderly, the lose nearly all of their heavy MLRS, more than half of mobile air defence, and god know how much logistics, comms, and armour.

It may well be they sacrificed nearly all of their best tanks on Ukraine with most of them not firing a single shot.


----------



## خره مينه لګته وي

Worth Watching.

The Failed Logistics of Russia's invasion of Ukraine


----------



## serenity

Paul2 said:


> Half of big name items of Russia is in the Ukrainian theatre.
> 
> The rest is "reserve," but more like equipment in storage, and light motorised mounted on light APCs, and trucks.
> 
> If Russia flees disorderly, the lose nearly all of their heavy MLRS, more than half of mobile air defence, and god know how much logistics, comms, and armour.
> 
> It may well be they sacrificed nearly all of their best tanks on Ukraine with most of them not firing a single shot.



Russia lost nearly all of their best tanks on Ukraine with most of them not firing a single shot?

How could anyone here know this? Why wouldn't they fire a single shot unless UAF or Ukrainian operated drones have struck all the many thousands of tanks without those tanks firing a shot.

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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> Half of big name items of Russia is in the Ukrainian theatre.
> 
> The rest is "reserve," but more like equipment in storage, and light motorised mounted on light APCs, and trucks.
> 
> If Russia flees disorderly, the lose nearly all of their heavy MLRS, more than half of mobile air defence, and god know how much logistics, comms, and armour.
> 
> It may well be they sacrificed nearly all of their best tanks on Ukraine with most of them not firing a single shot.




Western ATGMs have obliterated Russian armor. I believe a US Special Forces officer said Javelins had a 90% kill rate.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500429751617478657

God bless them

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## Paul2

serenity said:


> Russia lost nearly all of their best tanks on Ukraine with most of them not firing a single shot?
> 
> How could anyone here know this? Why wouldn't they fire a single shot unless UAF or Ukrainian operated drones have struck all the many thousands of tanks without those tanks firing a shot.


There is a website which does killcount verification on both sides

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## coffee_cup

That Guy said:


> He's a former actor turned politician. Not really worth mentioning.



How much does a top notch comedian make in Ukraine (he is certainly not top notch, but for the arguments sake, lets assume he is) ?

100K $ a year? 200K$ after expenses, including all sorts of promotions (I am being very generous here). Ok lets give him 100K more.... still he would need like 1000+ years to make half a billion$ with that.

Both you and me know, there is only one possible way to pile it up in a corrupt country like Ukraine .... immense corruption!!


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500470830970646536

Ukrainian farmers #2 most powerful military in Europe

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## coffee_cup

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500429751617478657
> 
> God bless them



Happy wedding! 
Beautiful couple.

Hope they dont belong to Azov battalion.


----------



## Wergeland 2.0

serenity said:


> Putin willingly and stubbornly losing 5% to 10% Russian military on every move means roughly 2 to 3 weeks before depleted. That willingness to lose things for hardly any real gain means Putin is doing this intentionally.



How plausible is this scenario? It sounds a bit farfetched tbh.


----------



## That Guy

coffee_cup said:


> How much does a top notch comedian make in Ukraine (he is certainly not top notch, but for the arguments sake, lets assume he is) ?
> 
> 100K $ a year? 200K$ after expenses, including all sorts of promotions (I am being very generous here). Ok lets give him 100K more.... still he would need like 1000+ years to make half a billion$ with that.
> 
> Both you and me know, there is only one possible way to pile it up in a corrupt country like Ukraine .... immense corruption!!


It's called having an accountant. A good accountant will tell you how to invest your money.


----------



## jamahir

INDIAPOSITIVE said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500444400752955394



One NATO country being attacked by an external entity will legally cause the whole of NATO to defend the attacked country, so when Ukraine is given NATO membership now will NATO attack Russians and Belarusians in Ukraine and will NATO take the war to Russia ? 



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500454880212889602



And what will this American carrier strike group do ?



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500375713748291586



Some Ukranian-government-affiliated media says 99 Russian tanks destroyed, another says 269 and here it says 300. 

And just yesterday, wasn't the number of Russian personnel killed 10,000 ? Now it is 11,000. One thousand in a day ?

Who is doing all this counting ?



jamal18 said:


> RT, on Ukrainian trops doing a runner. Seems genuine.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500456167910354948



During the initial bits of the report I was wondering if the Ukranians have left surprises in the base and then the reporter said it. And he also said that the Ukranians soldiers from here may now have mingled with the civilians. It must be pointed that the Russians are being quite decent with the civilians, letting them stop by the Russian vehicles and film. The Russians are also delivering emergency supplies in at least one place. The Ukranians will be doing a wrong thing by dressing up as civilians.

As it is, the Ukranian military, including the embedded Nazis, is preventing the civilians from leaving the cities, holding them hostage and then claiming that the evil Russians are killing civilians. This is the same claim that NATO made about Libyan and Syrian forces in 2011. Bloody liars !

Also, such reports will not be made by our @Vergennes and @Messerschmitt and sorry to say, @dBSPL.

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## LeGenD

Naram_Sin said:


> When your adversary starts banning cats and literary authors, you know that all retaliatory steps he has taken did not have the desired effect and has effectively extinguished all meaningful options to the degree that they are now illegally looting Russian citizens assets.
> 
> Regardless of the military losses that Russia might suffer, wether they are exaggerated or underreported, they are ultimately an insignificant price in return for neutralizing a potential nuclear Nato Ukraine, this is the nation that gave 20 million people in WW2, a few thousands personel and some vehicles is a non figure.


Russia wasn't alone but had 15 other Soviet Socialist Republics (SSR) on its side back in the time of World War 2 - Ukraine being one of the SSR at the time.









Ukraine in World War II


Ukraine in World War II



ww2db.com





This war is different - between two former SSR. Putin, in his hubris, does not seem to realize that his own country will pay a heavy price for this war in the long term. The logical course of action for Putin is to consider political solution for this conflict. He should not take NATO and Ukrainian insurgency for granted.

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## coffee_cup

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500470830970646536
> 
> Ukrainian farmers #2 most powerful military in Europe



This is quite funny actually.

As funny as the rag-tag Talibans driving tanks of the GREATEST military power the world has ever seen. Some of them hadnt driven a 4 wheeler in their whole life, :- D

I wish these things could help end the war. Every one would have a good laughter and conflicts would be resolved peacefully too!


----------



## sammuel

Hack-Hook said:


> how many arrested in France over protest against Sarkuzy ? what about usa



You obviously have lived in a dictatorship too long and have lost any concept of what it is like to live in a democracy.

Sure , some times protesters get arrested when they get violent , some times police get out of line. 

But the basic right to demonstrate and voice your opinion is fundamental yo any democracy. Without it it cant be called a democracy.


~


----------



## coffee_cup

That Guy said:


> It's called having an accountant. A good accountant will tell you how to invest your money.



Even the greatest of accountants can give you few millions 10...20? but here we are talking about more than half a billion!

C'mon...

BTW, afai accountants are not financial advisers. It is out of scope for their mandate.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500475092207349763

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## NA71

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Can we all please quit the virtue signalling and concentrate on the war because at the end of the day all that matters is who is stronger because this is not about whos right or whos wrong AND this was never about morality but revenge and powerplay hence lets keep the discussion to the military sphere and also lets exclude past or future events being dragging into this but just this present conflict..
> 
> There is no rights or wrongs remember this and this counts anywhere else in the world


Aibak bhai your profile DP is very unique....


----------



## That Guy

coffee_cup said:


> Even the greatest of accountants can give you few millions 10...20? but not more than half a billion!
> 
> C'mon...
> 
> BTW, afai accountants are not financial advisers. It is out of scope for their mandate.


It is not. You have no idea about accountants and financial advisers.

You probably don't even know the difference between a financial adviser and a financial advisor.

Regardless, you're making a big deal over nothing. Who cares how much money he has?

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## F-22Raptor

Russia has made little progress in the last 24 hours. Supplies seem to be a huge problem

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## LeGenD

serenity said:


> Russia lost nearly all of their best tanks on Ukraine with most of them not firing a single shot?
> 
> How could anyone here know this? Why wouldn't they fire a single shot unless UAF or Ukrainian operated drones have struck all the many thousands of tanks without those tanks firing a shot.


You will find this information in following thread:





__





Repository of journalistic sources and how to use them with Russia - Ukraine War in focus and Fact-checking considerations


Dear members, Some members complain about the issue of reporting bias (and propaganda) in journalistic contents. These complaints were noticed in the following thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/ This thread is created to address the...



defence.pk

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## NA71

AL Jazeera showing Ukrainian supported group using bullets rubbed with pig hide.... and saying these bullets are for Chechen fighters... These bullets will take you to Hell... 😁

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500453609984733186


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

RescueRanger said:


> Irpin:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Caution Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500427349132722176


What's the backstory.... Those seem to be American accents....


----------



## coffee_cup

That Guy said:


> It is not. You have no idea about accountants and financial advisers.
> 
> You probably don't even know the difference between a financial adviser and a financial advisor.



Ok bro, give me that accountant or financial adviser, I dont need much... just a million or two will do. ; -)

For some reason only crooks like Ashraf Ghani, Sharifs, Zelenskys and co seem to have them.

A massively corrupt person should not be made a hero, you agree?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500238344328032258


----------



## Bengal71

Clutch said:


> Great point... I didn't think of this. But yes, definitely the Russians will arm to the teeth any opposition to Western misadventures in the middle East or any other region... They will not forget this....



They missed their chance in the American Afghan war.

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## INS_Vikrant



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## Bengal71

Zibago said:


> Dude the Soviets raped and killed Musims right at our border and if you really want to give credit for decolonization give it to Nazis who weakened Britain so much that it had to let go



And the Japanese too.

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## Meengla

Flight of falcon said:


> I gotta give it to the Western media and Ukrainian supporters . They have shamelessly propagate and peddled fake news like never before in the history .
> 
> Most of the videos are outright fake or exaggerated to say the least.
> 
> Western media created the fake news such as a 40 mile Russian convoy, which was once attacking Kiev , then bogged down , then ran out of fuel, then soldiers deserted and finally ambushed by the brave Ukrainians. The entire story is so outlandish and stupid that any one with an ounce of brain will not be able to stop shaking their heads in disbelief.
> 
> Western media deliberately created the hype that Russians are unable to take Kiev as if it was supposed to be a walk in the park. Ukraine had a large professional and well armed army. They are equally armed and trained as the Russians except they cannot match Russians in number . Ofcourse they were going to fight to death their equally trained and qualitatively equal army.
> 
> Why wouldn’t they ?
> 
> So the expectation Russia was to win the war in few days was a deliberate misinformation to create the sense that Russians are stalled and loosing.
> 
> They are neither stalled nor loosing. They are deliberately and methodically moving and capturing area. Their goal is not to just capture the territory but to destroy and disarm Ukrainian army infrastructure . That they are doing well and moving slowly in the process .
> 
> Yes in some places they are stalled but that is totally expected from a well armed enemy that is determined to defend their homeland .
> 
> The end is not in doubt. The question is how much Russians will destroy …. Both the military and civilian …. To teach their enemy a lesson.



Good post. No one can win a propaganda war led by Americans in the world. But facts on the ground are the real facts; and I am not sure of them as of now. Remember just six months ago how spectacularly the Taliban conquered Afghanistan despite so much noise about the capabilities of the American-backed Kabul govt. 

To be sure, Ukraine is not some babe in the woods. It is a powerful, large country of 40+ million, generously supplied and trained by the most powerful and richest military and economic block on earth for many years, and is fighting on its home turf. Plus they are putting up a good fight. Let's not forget that in a defensive conventional war, the attackers are supposed to have 3 times superiority. Plus, Russians and Ukrainians are much related and that makes total brutal war by Russia not so easy; it is the soldiers and commanders on the ground who are ultimately the ones to pull the triggers.
But I will still say it will be cruel for Russia to take more than a sliver of land in eastern Ukraine and perhaps block Ukraine's sea access; use those as bargaining chip and end the war. 
PS. Pakistan doesn't have much of stake in this war as long it is confined to the region around Ukraine. At best Pakistan's ally China gains but those gains are not very significant for Pakistan to take sides.


----------



## That Guy

Iron Shrappenel said:


> What's the backstory.... Those seem to be American accents....



I see cameras, so I assume journalist



coffee_cup said:


> Ok bro, give me that accountant or financial adviser, I dont need much... just a million or two will do. ; -)
> 
> For some reason only crooks like Ashraf Ghani, Sharifs, Zelenskys and co seem to have them.
> 
> A massively corrupt person should not be made a hero, you agree?


Holy shit, drop it. This has nothing to do with the thread at hand. Once again, who cares? Every politician is rich. Putin is a multibillionaire. Who cares?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500467530875473931


----------



## RescueRanger

Iron Shrappenel said:


> What's the backstory.... Those seem to be American accents....


They are journalists they were reporting an evacuation.

Two claims here:

UKR: claim that Russians shelled Irpin during civ evacuations resulting in deaths of three civilians 

RUS: claim the Ukrainians staged this by firing an RPG into the street. Lots of videos and maps on Twitter but I am now giving Twitter a very wide berth as it’s full of nonsense.

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## That Guy

INS_Vikrant said:


> View attachment 821308


What if I hate everyone in this picture? Do I win a prize?

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500479931981180933

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499514430001795076

First B-21 bomber set for official roll out. Signaling to Russia?

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## Wood




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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500486027445772289

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500486022337024009

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500486018646036485
The siege has really tighten on the city

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1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500485604223721476

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

There are contradicting claims coming out of Mariupol. The Russian side are claiming Azov is holding them hostage


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500485858838949897


----------



## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500479931981180933



Must be getting rid of most of their stock of these types before bulk ordering a new batch of NLAW's. Good for Ukraine - fast supply for them.

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## sammuel

~

Russian police detain 3,500 people at anti-war protests - TASS​people at anti-war protests in cities across Russia on Sunday, including 1,700 people in Moscow and 750 in St Petersburg, TASS news agency the interior ministry as saying.(Reporting by Reuters)







Russian police detain 3,500 people at anti-war protests - TASS


LONDON — Police detained around 3,500




nationalpost.com




]

~


----------



## RescueRanger

‘We need it fast’: Moldova seeks US support over Ukraine refugees


Some 120,000 people have crossed into small country since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine last week.




www.aljazeera.com


----------



## F-22Raptor

Ali_Baba said:


> Must be getting rid of most of their stock of these types before bulk ordering a new batch of NLAW's. Good for Ukraine - fast supply for them.




14 cargo aircraft landed in Poland on Friday. Western weapons continue to flow into Ukraine.


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

NA71 said:


> Aibak bhai your profile DP is very unique....



Thanks.. She is a hot bird


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500487870494167044

Another Russian artillery unit annihilated

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RescueRanger

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> There are contradicting claims coming out of Mariupol. The Russian side are claiming Azov is holding them hostage
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500485858838949897




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500486984694964229

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500487343127601159

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

The Russian side are insisting that it is the Ukrainian side and specifically Azov holding the civilians hostage


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500489327188627459

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## sur

dBSPL said:


> . . . the conditions and interests of the countries. Russia is a 'distant threat' to many Muslim countries. *The western bloc is an 'imminent threat'* for some reasons.



Just watched _Turkish analyst Yunus Soner_ says that US organized 3 coups in Turkey . . . and says that today it's Russia tomorrow it will be Turkey.






ex Ukr PM says Zelensky allowed US to conduct exercises of a nuclear attack on Russia from Ukrainian air space, thereby putting his country in danger:








Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> There are contradicting claims coming out of Mariupol. The Russian side are claiming Azov is holding them hostage
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500485858838949897


That 3rd part is exactly what _Russia says_ they want to eliminate.
Putin asked Ukrainian military to take over the gang (the likes of Azov+Zelensky type etc.) and talk to Russia directly.


(Source)

Reactions: Love Love:
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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500487870494167044
> 
> Another Russian artillery unit annihilated




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500489642638024709

Counter battery fire using US radars. Russian unit destroyed


----------



## LeGenD

coffee_cup said:


> Ok bro, give me that accountant or financial adviser, I dont need much... just a million or two will do. ; -)
> 
> For some reason only crooks like Ashraf Ghani, Sharifs, Zelenskys and co seem to have them.
> 
> A massively corrupt person should not be made a hero, you agree?


You are comparing Zelenskyy to the likes of Ashraf Ghani and Nawaz Sharif? Like seriously?









Zelensky vs Putin: who’s winning the PR battle?


As Russian bombs fell across Ukraine, the contrast between the leaders of the warring nations could not be starker.




www.scmp.com













Zelensky v. Putin: A Stark Contrast


“The contrast between how Putin and Zelensky are presenting themselves in this war is striking and symbolic of what is happening on the ground.”




www.postalley.org













Ukraine’s Zelenskyy: A wartime statesman for the social media age


Openness, grit and selfie videos. How Ukraine’s comedian-turned-president has become a symbol of national resistance.




www.aljazeera.com


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Russian forces showchase a base they captured from the Ukrainian armed forces whom they say left fled without fighting


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500490583500103687

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## LeGenD

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> There are contradicting claims coming out of Mariupol. The Russian side are claiming Azov is holding them hostage
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500485858838949897


Russians see Azov everywhere now. Only Russians.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500491644675805186
Kharkiv


----------



## Zibago

INS_Vikrant said:


> View attachment 821308


Never thought I would be agreeing with an Indian on pdf 



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500485604223721476


T-90?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500494943143530501

Russian invaders looting stores for food


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

jhungary said:


> J-16D is far from EA-18G.
> 
> It's not just about Jamming, this is about sensor infusion. I don't think China has any technology associated with this.



It's sensor *fusion*. If you want to try throwing shade on China, start by getting the terms right. It's combining data, not making herbal tea.

As for China not having sensor fusion technology, think again.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500495161960415237

Russian mothers


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500494589127503874

Potential ban on Russian oil

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## jhungary

ZeEa5KPul said:


> It's sensor *fusion*. If you want to try throwing shade on China, start by getting the terms right. It's combining data, not making herbal tea.
> 
> As for China not having sensor fusion technology, think again.



Dude, for the third f'king time, it's *NOT A TERM*. Did you even read how I used them.

I said this is *NOT JUST* about Jamming. This is about Sensor *INFUSION*, as in Sensor *ADDED* into JAMMING.

So if I say "Our company operational budget has been expanded with a 100 millions infusion from the latest IPO". Does that mean 100 millions infusion is a "term" and 90 millions infusion is not then?

God, can you people even read? And go look up the meaning of "Infusion"? Or do I need to send you a god damn dictionary?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500488887898185729

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## Messerschmitt

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500494943143530501
> 
> Russian invaders looting stores for food


Maybe there were Ukrainian "Nazis" hiding between the potatoes and cabbage and the Russians liberated the groceries from captivity.

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## Ashesh

As per this article- Nexta.Tv is co owned by member of Azov Battalion


..https://www.revistalacomuna.com/geopolitica-y-antiimperialismo/bielorrusia-quien-diablos-es-roman-protasevich/

Russia publishes documents which show Ukraine was working on biological weapons near russian borders — such as Anthrax and Plague: 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500499470076854272

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500483378742763526

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500459575425880076

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500453609984733186

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500487583649996801

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500500258404683784

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500499495980834824

Good Russia, then you need to attack those air fields. Lets see how well this goes for you once F-22s, F-35s, B-2s, Truman carrier group with 1,200+ VLS enter combat.


----------



## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500499495980834824
> 
> Good Russia, then you need to attack those air fields. Lets see how well this goes for you once F-22s, F-35s, B-2s, Truman carrier group with 1,200+ VLS enter combat.



I support a Russian strike on countries supplying weapons to Ukraine.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500502823355785220

More destroyed Russian personnel and captured equipment



thetutle said:


> I support a Russian strike on countries supplying weapons to Ukraine.




Good, but don't complain once Russian forces are incinerated.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500400899189055490




CNN reported it was the Ukrainian who did it in order to stop or slow the Russian military advance.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500507275697528833

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500457188774584324

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500463674670174212

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500464500281167873

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## Rafi

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500499495980834824
> 
> Good Russia, then you need to attack those air fields. Lets see how well this goes for you once F-22s, F-35s, B-2s, Truman carrier group with 1,200+ VLS enter combat.



You want the world to end. Stupid.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500508202458390529

Wow!

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## Clutch

INS_Vikrant said:


> View attachment 821308



Great post.


----------



## Rafi

**** the Russians, I have personal Ukranian interests in this fight, but this thread is one sided with even the MODs supporting Ukraine (which is think is right morally) but it would be better to have an analytical and more even handed approach so we can study the conflict.

Or are we just gonna be fan boys like the "normies".

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Messerschmitt

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500508202458390529
> 
> Wow!




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500509281073967115

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500506949879795718


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500509486905274373

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500510041601888266

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500481670692192256

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## jamal18

coffee_cup said:


> Ok bro, give me that accountant or financial adviser, I dont need much... just a million or two will do. ; -)
> 
> For some reason only crooks like Ashraf Ghani, Sharifs, Zelenskys and co seem to have them.
> 
> A massively corrupt person should not be made a hero, you agree?


Isn't it strange that all US backed leaders end up having vast amounts of money?


----------



## Wood

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> CNN reported it was the Ukrainian who did it in order to stop or slow the Russian military advance.


Bridge was incapacitated by Ukrainians. Later civilianstook shelter under the part of it that was standing. This is when the Russians have been said to have fired at it.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500509281073967115




Kharkiv still holds.

How does Russia expect to take Kiev? Kiev is TWICE the size of Kharkiv. I don't see how Russia can seize and occupy it for any length of time. Impossible for them IMO.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500500899902468108


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500508202458390529
> 
> Wow!


Hope that the pilot managed to eject!


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

F-22Raptor said:


> Kharkiv still holds.
> 
> How does Russia expect to take Kiev? Kiev is TWICE the size of Kharkiv. I don't see how Russia can seize and occupy it for any length of time. Impossible for them IMO.



They are waiting for civilians to leave and flatten it to the ground.. Then take the city and they could keep onto the city in my honest once they take it like Kherson and several other cities they have taken

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500511107794022400

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500509486905274373
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500510041601888266





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500496923245088774


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500510853807939588

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500510433786187776

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500507743479902211

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500511107794022400




Those stories make no sense. It is pretty lame to claim that Russians are abandoning their equipment when they're pretty much taking over and surrounding town after town and city after city. I'm pretty sure bed-time stories don't belong in war. Goodness grief!


----------



## Clutch

jamal18 said:


> Isn't it strange that all US backed leaders end up having vast amounts of money?




Western power feed their minions well... Even in Afghanistan, the Kabul Government officials always had stashes of money hidden.... That's what Ashraf Ghani ran off with.... Same thing Zelensky the Clown will do...

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500511608694530048


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500179892511592453


----------



## LeGenD

Rafi said:


> **** the Russians, I have personal Ukranian interests in this fight, but this thread is one sided with even the MODs supporting Ukraine (which is think is right morally) but it would be better to have an analytical and more even handed approach so we can study the conflict.
> 
> Or are we just gonna be fan boys like the "normies".


Dear,

Check my thread:





__





Repository of journalistic sources and how to use them with Russia - Ukraine War in focus and Fact-checking considerations


Dear members, Some members complain about the issue of reporting bias (and propaganda) in journalistic contents. These complaints were noticed in the following thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/ This thread is created to address the...



defence.pk





For analytical coverage:






Institute for the Study of War







www.understandingwar.org





For statistics:









Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine







www.oryxspioenkop.com





- - -

People use Twitter to convey information and exchange views in current times though. This tradition is apparent in this thread as well.


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak



Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500510853807939588
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500510433786187776




Looks like that fighter had just dropped bombs before it was hit. Looks like an S300 took it out.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## F-22Raptor

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


>




These maps are also highly misleading. A lot of those red areas Russia may control a road, but not that entire territory.

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## coffee_cup

The British role is the worst in this crisis so far. They were the one throwing most of the oil on fire. And making most of the noise.

And now when it comes to actions, they are not letting Ukrainians into UK. Families who drove all the way from Ukraine to France are being held there and British authorities are asking them to apply for an emergency visa which is very expensive!

This is beyond outrageous!

Europe will pay the price, whereas these cunning foxes will take all the profits!

@Vergennes : Have those Ukrainian families stuck in Calais made any progress yet?

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500455118847856642


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Big find in Ukraine: NATO military equipment are found. It seems NATO military officers are coordinating the war against Russia. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500505238507249664

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

F-22Raptor said:


> These maps are also highly misleading. A lot of those red areas Russia may control a road, but not that entire territory.



I mean connecting villages etc etc. Are under Russian control as per war rule


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500513452577669124


----------



## jamal18

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Big find in Ukraine: NATO military equipment are found. It seems NATO military officers are coordinating the war against Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500505238507249664


Remember Nato 'training teams' were in the Ukraine. This could esily be their leftovers.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Oops, other (Western) countries have already joined the war. World War III has started. It is possible you'll see nukes being deployed very soon. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500503124536143872
(Let the Romans eliminate each other as it was prophesied in authentic hadiths).

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## Patriot forever

I think this thread has gone to the trolls. The fact is not a single Russian BTG has been disabled by the Ukrainians. 

The thread is going in an opposite direction and war is going in an another.

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## LeGenD

Patriot forever said:


> I think this thread has gone to the trolls. The fact is not a single Russian BTG has been disabled by the Ukrainians.
> 
> The thread is going in an opposite direction and war is going in an another.


This is not helpful. There is a lot of good information in this thread as well.

You are welcome to counter any content with evidence on hand.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

This is significiant development.. Russians claiming warplanes that is landing in Romania is attacking them 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500503124536143872

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## LeGenD

Ukrainian roads have quickly become a killing ground for Russian convoys moving through hostile territory amid a reportedly worsening logistics situation. While losses of heavily armored tanks and armored personnel carriers to anti-tank weapons are piling up, far less fortified vehicles are vulnerable even to small arms fire. Losses of light and unarmored vehicles trying to ferry men and materiel to advancing Russian forces are also increasing. As a result, Russian drivers have gotten creative in fortifying their trucks for the deadly roads leading ever deeper into Ukraine.

Images of Russian KAMAZ trucks appeared Saturday showing logs stacked on the front bumper as additional improvised armor. Crews even managed to retain their distinctive “V” markings seen on Russian vehicles in the sector. Other vehicles use wood boards and junk metal to protect their most vulnerable frontal areas.








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500160062354034689
The three vehicles look to be carrying PMP pontoon bridge elements, a valuable logistics asset and one of the Ukrainian forces’ preferred targets alongside fuel trucks. A PMP bridge was likely set up over the Pripyat River in the Belarusian side of the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone in the final days leading up to the war.

The logs themselves appear cut from trees right behind the vehicles and are likely intended to protect the trucks’ radiators from small arms fire. The last thing any Russian vehicle crew wants is to survive an ambush only for the truck to overheat and break down nearby.









Desperate Russian Rear-Area Troops Are Armoring Their Vehicles With Wood Logs


Absent better security, Russian drivers are doing whatever they can to survive Ukrainian ambushes.




www.thedrive.com

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## maverick1977

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500496923245088774


 shot down today ?


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

@dBSPL 

Remember these 2 Romanian MGs and Helicopter that got shoot down it now shows it was not weather.. As the Russians are claiming warplanes attacking them are landing there

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## RescueRanger

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500502823355785220
> 
> More destroyed Russian personnel and captured equipment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good, but don't complain once Russian forces are incinerated.


For the LAST TIME if you are going to post picture or share tweets that contains deceased civ/mil you must put a spoiler!

@LeGenD @The Eagle

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500507864653307911


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500383219627270148


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

maverick1977 said:


> shot down today ?



Yes


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500501528897073157
It looks like Ukrainian nationalists don't want civilians to leave the cities, so anyone who tries to feel gets shot. More like they want to hide amongst the civilian population.


----------



## LeGenD

Fellow members,

When you post graphic content in this thread, please apply spoiler tag to it and label it as graphic. 

PDF does not allow graphic content to be posted but I am showing leniency in this regard in this thread for the sake of conflict-related updates. Please do not take this leniency for granted.

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## coffee_cup

LeGenD said:


> You are comparing Zelenskyy to the likes of Ashraf Ghani and Nawaz Sharif? Like seriously?



Well at least there is one big difference. Both of them cant play piano with their d**ks as Zelensky used to do.






Otherwise all of them are corrupt to the core...

(sorry, couldnt help it . : -) )

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## LeGenD

RescueRanger said:


> For the LAST TIME if you are going to post picture or share tweets that contains deceased civ/mil you must put a spoiler!
> 
> @LeGenD @The Eagle


Second this.

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## Abid123

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> This is significiant development.. Russians claiming warplanes that is landing in Romania is attacking them
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500503124536143872


Russia should give a warning to Romania. If they dont listen flatten the bases they are attacking from in Romania.

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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Those stories make no sense. It is pretty lame to claim that Russians are abandoning their equipment when they're pretty much taking over and surrounding town after town and city after city. I'm pretty sure bed-time stories don't belong in war. Goodness grief!


It's called terrible logistics, and bad terrain conditions. All militaries face it, some more than other's.

The Russian military has shit logistics compared the west, and heavily rely on trains for transport. In fact they have entire battalions dedicated to the military use of trains.

The Russians Also went into Ukraine at the worst time of the year, which is why they've had to rely on roads, due to the terrible terrain which their vehicles can't handle. This has lead to the Ukrainians easily being able to ambush them.

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## Wergeland 2.0

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> @dBSPL
> 
> Remember these 2 Romanian MGs and Helicopter that got shoot down it now shows it was not weather.. As the Russians are claiming warplanes attacking them are landing there



This conflict is a tragedy.
Russia is not gonna back of at all.
Putin really means it when he says Russia is fighting for its survival.

Russia hasnt even gone in with all of its 200K soldiers and machinery that it has amassed since 2021. She is expecting some NATO incursion and keeping most of the army battle ready just outside Ukrainian border.

Russia hasnt even began any mass mobilization of conscripts either.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

RescueRanger said:


> For the LAST TIME if you are going to post picture or share tweets that contains deceased civ/mil you must put a spoiler!
> 
> @LeGenD @The Eagle



@F-22Raptor contribution is significiant for the thread as his providing one side story of the conflict and others are doing the otherside hence it is key that he gets lax free hand to operate as he wishes or sees fit..  The Thread will die if we lose his contribution hence we can't lose him as his an asset

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## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> Good, but don't complain once Russian forces are incinerated.


I definitely won't complain.

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## LeGenD

coffee_cup said:


> Well at least there is one big difference. Both of them cant play piano with their d**ks as Zelensky used to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Otherwise all of them are corrupt to the core...
> 
> (sorry, couldnt help it . : -) )


This is unproductive post.

Zelenskyy was an actor and a comedian. He is a liberal as well. Nobody cares about his plays here.

WE focus on his political career, leadership role and relevant activities in this thread.

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## RescueRanger

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Big find in Ukraine: NATO military equipment are found. It seems NATO military officers are coordinating the war against Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500505238507249664


This is nothing to be concerned about and please allow me to explain:

A) that thinkpad is ancient so most likely a surplus
B) a lot of military and corps put asset tags on their kit 
C) laptops better than this were available at Karkhano from the containers and after Afghanistan. Even if you go to 6th Road inRawalpindi you can snag yourself an old ISAF/US military tough book for 20,000 rupees.

So most likely and the most logical explanation is - this was surplus donated stock with the sticker still or - or it was purchased from a vendor that sells ex military laptops. (It’s very common even here in Pakistan)

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500499470076854272

Things are going to directions that they weren't expected.......Russians seem to be pointing the finger at NATO and US lately.

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## Abid123

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> This conflict is a tragedy.
> Russia is not gonna back of at all.
> Putin really means it when he says Russia is fighting for its survival.
> 
> Russia hasnt even gone in with all of its 200K soldiers and machinery that it has amassed since 2021. She is expecting some NATO incursion and keeping most of the army battle ready just outside Ukrainian border.
> 
> Russia hasnt even began any mass mobilization of conscripts either.


I think Russia is waiting for the civilians to flee. After that they will go "all in".

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> This conflict is a tragedy.
> Russia is not gonna back of at all.
> Putin really means it when he says Russia is fighting for its survival.
> 
> Russia hasnt even gone in with all of its 200K soldiers and machinery that it has amassed since 2021. She is expecting some NATO incursion and keeping most of the army battle ready just outside Ukrainian border.
> 
> Russia hasnt even began any mass mobilization of conscripts either.



The Russians aren't known to back out of a conflict once they commit to it unless forced out ala Afghanistan but that happening here is low but I won't count it out.. Can the Ukrainians fight them in 9 year conflict everywhere in the country perhaps they could bleed the russians enough to exit.. It is to early to say but the Russian resolve is always great but you gotta bleed them to the last dollar and men as there tolerance barometer is high

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/970348700835991554

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## coffee_cup

LeGenD said:


> This is unproductive post.
> 
> Zelenskyy was an actor and a comedian. He is a liberal as well. Nobody cares about his plays here.
> 
> WE focus on his political career, leadership role and relevant activities in this thread.



Bro, the man is mentally unstable, highly racist (check his insults towards Turks or Muslims or minorities), supports neo-nazis (even though he is Jewish) and is on drugs.

What leadership role are you talking about?

Do you think, world should just sit on the side and give leadership role to such a person to ignite WW3?

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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Big find in Ukraine: NATO military equipment are found. It seems NATO military officers are coordinating the war against Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500505238507249664


That's not NATO laptop. 

NATO logo consist of 2 word NATO and OTAN. It is ALWAYS that way. 








NATO is an international organisation, they don't just use NATO. 

Also, NATO uses NSN (NATO Stock Number) not IT Asset number, you can track everything with NSN, IT equipment start with 7010

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Abid123 said:


> Russia should give a warning to Romania. If they dont listen flatten the bases they are attacking from in Romania.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500503226029854727


----------



## Ali_Baba

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Big find in Ukraine: NATO military equipment are found. It seems NATO military officers are coordinating the war against Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500505238507249664



That is so fake ...

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## NA71

[


Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Thanks.. She is a hot bird


Are you with that bird?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Another chilling accusation from Russia 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500505121381359621

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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> This is nothing to be concerned about and please allow me to explain:
> 
> A) that thinkpad is ancient so most likely a surplus
> B) a lot of military and corps put asset tags on their kit
> C) laptops better than this were available at Karkhano from the containers and after Afghanistan. Even if you go to 6th Road inRawalpindi you can snag yourself an old ISAF/US military tough book for 20,000 rupees.
> 
> So most likely and the most logical explanation is - this was surplus donated stock with the sticker still or - or it was purchased from a vendor that sells ex military laptops. (It’s very common even here in Pakistan)


This is NOT a NATO computer lol

NATO computer are ruggedized and they don't use "IT Asset Number" to identify their serial They use NSN









NATO Stock Number - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





That photo is as fake as you can get....

PS I had used a NATO Laptop before.....

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## sammuel

Clutch said:


> Western power feed their minions well... Even in Afghanistan, the Kabul Government officials always had stashes of money hidden.... That's what Ashraf Ghani ran off with.... Same thing Zelensky the Clown will do...



Some hard accusation here without evidence.

Fact is that every day he and his family are in Kiev they risk their lives.

This man has no military background and the Russians likely expected him to flee, yet he decided to stay and fight , though many countries offered him refuge.


~


~


----------



## NA71

Putin warns "West has no idea whats coming next'

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## Oublious

NA71 said:


> Putin warns "West has no idea whats coming next'




lol


----------



## thetutle

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500510433786187776



Its nice that each of them has their own NLAW. So they don't have at argue about who has one and who doesn't.


----------



## Messerschmitt

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500432948390158338

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500491124116500486

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500490242784174085

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## NA71

Oublious said:


> lol


??? It was Putins words not from Comedian Zelensky

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## sur

LeGenD said:


> Fellow members,
> 
> When you post graphic content in this thread, please apply spoiler tag to it and label it as graphic.
> 
> PDF does not allow graphic content to be posted but I am showing leniency in this regard in this thread for the sake of conflict-related updates. Please do not take this leniency for granted.


Just for everyone to find that easily, it's this eye-symbol, once you click the menu (three dots) :



Spoiler: Demo

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## jhungary

By the way, in case of anyone wondering what's a NATO laptop looks like, It looks like this

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## LeGenD

coffee_cup said:


> Bro, the man is mentally unstable, highly racist (check his insults towards Turks or Muslims or minorities), supports neo-nazis (even though he is Jewish) and is on drugs.
> 
> What leadership role are you talking about?
> 
> Do you think, world should just sit on the side and give leadership role to such a person to ignite WW3?


Your critic is duly noted but how did you diagnose his mental instability? Any medical record? You do not have to like him in person but repeatedly ridiculing him in this thread does not contributes much to the topic on hand - rather derails it.

Do you know any human out there who is truly perfect in talks and views? Nobody is. Many have their fair share of embarrassing moments in person. Just check Tik Tok. 😉

The articles which I shared with you - you should check them to understand how Zelenskyy rose to prominence and how he is leading Ukraine in current times. The fact is that he is staying in his country in spite of attempts on his life and he continues to motivate Ukrainians to fight for the country - this is globally noticed and appreciated.

So let us keep this discussion constructive.

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## RescueRanger

If the Russians keep losing inventory the way they are , I fear the next images we see of advancing Russian columns will look something like this:

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## sammuel

NA71 said:


> Putin warns "West has no idea what's coming next'



Really don't know where Putin is going here,

Even if he takes all of Ukraine and places some puppet government there , but for how long can he keep it ?

Thought the Russians have learned that lesson by now from Afghanistan.

As for his threats against the west , this is just irresponsible madness.

~


----------



## RescueRanger

sur said:


> Just for everyone to find that easily, it's this eye-symbol, once you click the menu (three dots) :
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Demo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 821396
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 821394


Thank you — positive rating given for contribution to hopefully positive discussions 🙂

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## LeGenD

@Hassan Al-Somal 

Now you understand that Russians lie too? They do propaganda as well?

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500524146756919310


----------



## LeGenD

RescueRanger said:


> If the Russians keep losing inventory the way they are , I fear the next images we see of advancing Russian columns will look something like this:
> 
> View attachment 821402


Buhahahahaha

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## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


> This is NOT a NATO computer lol
> 
> NATO computer are ruggedized and they don't use "IT Asset Number" to identify their serial They use NSN
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO Stock Number - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That photo is as fake as you can get....
> 
> PS I had used a NATO Laptop before.....


I know that’s not a NATO laptop if you read my post I’m trying to explain how that label possibly ended up on an ancient thinkpad and whilst I don’t advertise my CV here - I’ve been around long enough and far enough and held clearances to know what certain kit means : 🙂

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## NA71

sammuel said:


> Really don't know where Putin is going here,
> 
> Even if he takes all of Ukraine and places some puppet government there , but for how long can he keep it ?
> 
> Thought the Russians have learned that lesson by now from Afghanistan.
> 
> As for his threats against the west , this is just irresponsible madness.
> 
> ~


Just like Americans keeping Israel on the heart of Arab Lands

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## fallschirmjager786

Messerschmitt said:


> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500432948390158338
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500491124116500486



Terrible!!

Unfortunate that some people are just not capable of level headed evaluation of what is happening. The Russians have resorted to indiscriminate firing and civilian targetting. Not a good sign of things to come. Do i think Ukrainians are angels? No, but they are behaving far better than the Russians. 

Look at the equipment losses, Russians are moving in small units in convoys on the roads and trying to seize city centers while heavier forces/police units catch up for crowd control. Rus AF is also facing a lot of attrition and shoot downs. Does not happen if there are no Ukrainian AD existing. There is no air superiority. At best they control the roads and the immediate vicinity on the maps. Only in the South can you say they have an advantage and only North of Crimea, the DPR and LPR "militias" have been incapable of dislodging the Well entrenched Ukrainians. 

Understandably, the Ukrainians are focusing on Kiev and cannot divert huge resources to the South and South East, after all they are at a numbers and material disadvantage. They do seem to have good command and control, the command structures supposedly wiped out by the Russians are functioning, the Ukrainians are conserving firepower and picking off supply and essential logistical units causing huge issues for the Russians. No doubt, having to use unencrypted comms is not helping the Russians.

I understand that some people hate the west/NATO/US etc but that does not make what the Russians are doing as right.

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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> I know that’s not a NATO laptop if you read my post I’m trying to explain how that label possibly ended up on an ancient thinkpad and whilst I don’t advertise my CV here - I’ve been around long enough and far enough and held clearances to know what certain kit means : 🙂
> 
> View attachment 821406
> View attachment 821407
> View attachment 821408
> View attachment 821409


Well, I don't think that's a NATO sticker at all...

All NATO logo are dual language (so always with NATO/OTAN) and they don't generally use full logo in their gear, they uses other the northern compass or just a circle with a cross....

That is like a print out logo....

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## Hassan Al-Somal

LeGenD said:


> @Hassan Al-Somal
> 
> Now you understand that Russians lie too? They do propaganda as well?



Yes. Propaganda and accusations are part of war. However, NATO's direct participation of this conflict is coming to the fore. And in my view, it is a dangerous development since Putin is not backing down. To him, it is a war of survival for Russia. So exposed NATO's participation would mean only one thing: A nuclear conflict. The Russian warning should be understood in this context.

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## fallschirmjager786

jhungary said:


> Well, I don't think that's a NATO sticker at all...
> 
> All NATO logo are dual language (so always with NATO/OTAN) and they don't generally use full logo in their gear, they uses other the northern compass or just a circle with a cross....
> 
> That is like a print out logo....



Propoganda from the Russians. Both sides will be looking to dominate the infosphere with disinformation.

Just like the Russian claims about Chem/nuke/bio weapons. Thats why they wanted the nuke sites so they can manufacture and parade fake evidence of a nuke weapon program.

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## coffee_cup

LeGenD said:


> Your critic is duly noted but how did you diagnose his mental instability? Any medical record? You do not have to like him in person but repeatedly ridiculing him in this thread does not contributes much to the topic on hand - rather derails it.
> 
> Do you know any human out there who is truly perfect in talks and views? Nobody is. Many have their fair share of embarrassing moments in person. Just check Tik Tok. 😉
> 
> The articles which I shared with you - you should check them to understand how Zelenskyy rose to prominence and how he is leading Ukraine in current times. The fact is that he is staying in his country in spite of attempts on his life and he continues to motivate Ukrainians to fight for the country - this is globally noticed and appreciated.
> 
> So let us keep this discussion constructive.



1) How do you know that he is staying in his country? All we see are some videos with background similar to his office with a flag. It can easily be staged somewhere in South Africa or Uganda or Poland.

2) You dont need to check medical record of Joe Biden to see that his mental capacity is in decline. Or you dont need to check "alcohol test" for Boris Yelstin to see that he was drunk. Same logic goes here, there are quite clear indications.

3) I have Ukrainian friends and I can tell you it is very fishy the way was elected. Lets not get into that.

4) Even though we have good relations with Ukraine, Jelensky has started to gradually damage them. His actions for nationalizing shares of companies e.g. where Chinese were holding shares was very unfriendly move. Similarly sooner or later Pakistan was going to get hit.

All the above 4 points would not have bothered me, had it not been a real case that this is actually the person who could lead us to WW3. And that gives me cringe feeling. We need some real leaders on the Western side who could step in, put him in the background and stop this madness. It is not some comedy show where we need his acting skills.

I know, it is not a popular opinion, but I say it as I see it.

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## LeGenD

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Yes. Propaganda and accusations are part of war. However, NATO's direct participation of this conflict is coming to the fore. And in my view, it is a dangerous development since Putin is not backing down. To him, it is a war of survival for Russia. So exposed NATO's participation would mean only one thing: A nuclear conflict. The Russian warning should be understood in this context.


Bro, the war will not go nuclear. Politicians value their lives very much on average.

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## Iñigo

The military intervention in Ukraine is the fault of the rag dolls who claim to be Germany's ruling class.

The proper thing to do would be, to express my gigantic anger, to go to Berlin.

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Putin is not backing down. To him, it is a war of survival for Russia.



Is this a joke ? Survival ? Have you any idea how much power Russia have ?

This is not a war of survival but a war of ego !

One look at this table tells you what it is all about :







does this seem normal to you ?


~

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## NA71

Just look at these folks ....throwing Poland in front of wild bear instead of some joint move.....Russian MoD issuing warnings to Poland .....


----------



## CrazyZ

RescueRanger said:


> If the Russians keep losing inventory the way they are , I fear the next images we see of advancing Russian columns will look something like this:
> 
> View attachment 821402


This worked for the Taliban against NATO.

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## RescueRanger

LeGenD said:


> Bro, the war will not go nuclear. Politicians value their lives very much on average.


To be fair it’s not his fault when all you hear is people yell “the sky is falling” you start to believe it.



CrazyZ said:


> This worked for the Taliban against NATO.


I have with me somewhere an advisory about donkey IEDs Afghans picked up that trick from Iraqis and used it with cruel efficiency.

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## Dustom999

fallschirmjager786 said:


> Propoganda from the Russians. Both sides will be looking to dominate the infosphere with disinformation.
> 
> Just like the Russian claims about Chem/nuke/bio weapons. Thats why they wanted the nuke sites so they can manufacture and parade fake evidence of a nuke weapon program.


They probably wanted to seize nuclear facilities so that a dying nation doesn't mess up with reactors, claim it was done by Russians and invite international invention as a last throw of the dice.


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

NA71 said:


> [
> 
> Are you with that bird?



Why do I get the feeling you wanna bone my girl.. Namak Haram

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## NA71

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Why do I get the feeling you wanna bone my girl.. Namak Haram


jang o jadal mein ...tuba astagfar

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## jhungary

fallschirmjager786 said:


> Propoganda from the Russians. Both sides will be looking to dominate the infosphere with disinformation.
> 
> Just like the Russian claims about Chem/nuke/bio weapons. Thats why they wanted the nuke sites so they can manufacture and parade fake evidence of a nuke weapon program.


Well, I can tell you this, whoever print the logo and do this probably have no idea how NATO work......

NATO keep their equipment record very meticulously...I once lost a NATO standard tubing (yes, NATO have standardized tubing) and I have to fill in 4 forms to replace that air conditioning duct....

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## thetutle

Messerschmitt said:


> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500432948390158338
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500491124116500486



Those bastards just killed a family.

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## Iñigo

Otto von Bismarck in this Ukrainian crisis orchestrated by the heirs of the British empire will turn in his grave seeing once again Germany's blindness as in 1914

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500526863000690689

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## tower9

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Oops, other (Western) countries have already joined the war. World War III has started. It is possible you'll see nukes being deployed very soon.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500503124536143872
> (Let the Romans eliminate each other as it was prophesied in authentic hadiths).


Shit is getting real. Guess we are all getting nuked now, it was fun chatting with you guys while it lasted!

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## Kraetoz

sammuel said:


> Is this a joke ? Survival ? Have you any idea how much power Russia have ?
> 
> This is not a war of survival but a war of ego !
> 
> One look at this table tells you what it is all about :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> does this seem normal to you ?
> 
> 
> ~


Putin doesn't like Macron.

This was taken a night before the Invasion.

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500502688345346052
Ignoring the political correctness / BLm stuff that’s a sign with a powerful message.

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## coffee_cup

RescueRanger said:


> To be fair it’s not his fault when all you hear is people yell “the sky is falling” you start to believe it.



Here is a "What-IF" scenario.
Lets forget nuclear for a while.

We have seen what a virus can do to the world.
What if some of those biological weapon labs gets hit and some nasty virus gets lose? 

Honestly, one wrong move or "minor" mis-calculation can get out of hand very quickly.

And that makes me worried!

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## PaklovesTurkiye

NA71 said:


> Putin warns "West has no idea whats coming next'



He really said that?

I would take the warning very serious.

West has overplayed here.......Russia is not NORTH KOREA.

Russia Will/May/Should extract revenge from US and Europe, at least for sake of bringing_ balance_ in _international order._

West CANNOT BE allowed to CONTINUE TO GANG UP on any certain country it wants....

NATO is literally smuggling weapons into Ukraine...They are *AT WAR* with Russia.

BALL is in Russian Court. Russia has NOTHING TO LOSE now. 

Russia should make an example out of at *least 1 NATO/European Country. That would send a message to Whole Europe/NATO/US*

China must be sensing that the way West has ganged up on Russia....It can be her turn in near future...

Meanwhile....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500516239734714374

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500513880950382595

More abandoned Russian equipment


----------



## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500502688345346052
> Ignoring the political correctness / BLm stuff that’s a sign with a powerful message.



Somehow I read that tweet as *"No Slav are allowed in Paradise"............*

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## RescueRanger

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500526863000690689


AIIB is China backed. 






Joking aside that could be smart risk management on the part of China.



jhungary said:


> Somehow I read that tweet as *"No Slav are allowed in Paradise"............*


Me too I had to do a double take 🤣

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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> AIIB is China backed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joking aside that could be smart risk management on the part of China.
> 
> 
> Me too I had to do a double take 🤣


I think most of us did....and I was like, "what the hell??"

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## F-22Raptor

Russias in trouble if they keep sustaining these types of losses over several more weeks

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## fallschirmjager786

Mass Fire Strike on Ukraine


In NVO, Mikhail Khodarenok has written about how a possible Russian Army campaign in Ukraine won’t be any cake walk. Here’s a translation.




russiandefpolicy.com





Analysis with original russian source, retired staff office.

Good read, this was posted before the invasion and predicts a lot of what is happening now. Don't forget the fact that Russian Senators have acknowledged losses in the Russian BTGs.

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## tower9

coffee_cup said:


> Bro, the man is mentally unstable, highly racist (check his insults towards Turks or Muslims or minorities), supports neo-nazis (even though he is Jewish) and is on drugs.
> 
> What leadership role are you talking about?
> 
> Do you think, world should just sit on the side and give leadership role to such a person to ignite WW3?


Well he was dancing in heels so that’s a pretty good sign a guy is unstable fme.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500526487686062090

Steve Trimble is the lead editor of Aviation Week


----------



## thetutle

sammuel said:


> Is this a joke ? Survival ? Have you any idea how much power Russia have ?
> 
> This is not a war of survival but a war of ego !
> 
> One look at this table tells you what it is all about :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> does this seem normal to you ?
> 
> 
> ~


Could Putin be worried the French president would assassinate him? Did they shake hands?

I have no doubt that they have ways to assassinate him if they get proximity.

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## fallschirmjager786

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498602414986911745
Its not going well when not only the conscripts but the tough as nails Spetsnaz troops are getting captured/surrendering/destroyed. These are not cannon fodder. VDV is supposed to be an Elite force as well.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500530549470998535

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500531070298697729


Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500510896619237382




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500530327491690496


----------



## tower9

RescueRanger said:


> AIIB is China backed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joking aside that could be smart risk management on the part of China.
> 
> 
> Me too I had to do a double take 🤣


I’m pretty sure it had to do with sanctions based on the USD because that’s how these projects are funded. Also it’s a war zone now. No sane person goes ahead with construction projects in a war zone.

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## LeGenD

fallschirmjager786 said:


> Mass Fire Strike on Ukraine
> 
> 
> In NVO, Mikhail Khodarenok has written about how a possible Russian Army campaign in Ukraine won’t be any cake walk. Here’s a translation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> russiandefpolicy.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Analysis with original russian source, retired staff office.
> 
> Good read, this was posted before the invasion and predicts a lot of what is happening now. Don't forget the fact that Russian Senators have acknowledged losses in the Russian BTGs.


Thanks for posting this content.

I have added it in my thread:





__





Repository of journalistic sources and how to use them with Russia - Ukraine War in focus and Fact-checking considerations


Dear members, Some members complain about the issue of reporting bias (and propaganda) in journalistic contents. These complaints were noticed in the following thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/ This thread is created to address the...



defence.pk





You may also post that article independently if you want to.


----------



## NA71

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> He really said that?
> 
> I would take the warning very serious.
> 
> West has overplayed here.......Russia is not NORTH KOREA.
> 
> Russia Will/May/Should extract revenge from US and Europe, at least for sake of bringing_ balance_ in _international order._
> 
> West CANNOT BE allowed to CONTINUE TO GANG UP on any certain country it wants....
> 
> NATO is literally smuggling weapons into Ukraine...They are *AT WAR* with Russia.
> 
> BALL is in Russian Court. Russia has NOTHING TO LOSE now.
> 
> Russia should make an example out of at *least 1 NATO/European Country. That would send a message to Whole Europe/NATO/US*
> 
> China must be sensing that the way West has ganged up on Russia....It can be her turn in near future...
> 
> Meanwhile....
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500516239734714374


Yes, Yes, Yes....This warning was on RT news for some time.....NATO & US taking it like Iraq or Syria ... We are falling on social media and western fake news ....

Poland will be first of direct NATO member confrontation if they have allowed missions from their air field. Russians are now conducting Air strikes with Cruise missiles and Jets are not that much in action....

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## RescueRanger

tower9 said:


> I’m pretty sure it had to do with sanctions based on the USD because that’s how these projects are funded. Also it’s a war zone now. No sane person goes ahead with construction projects in a war zone.


Like I said “risk a management on the part of the Chinese”.

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## jhungary

fallschirmjager786 said:


> Mass Fire Strike on Ukraine
> 
> 
> In NVO, Mikhail Khodarenok has written about how a possible Russian Army campaign in Ukraine won’t be any cake walk. Here’s a translation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> russiandefpolicy.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Analysis with original russian source, retired staff office.
> 
> Good read, this was posted before the invasion and predicts a lot of what is happening now. Don't forget the fact that Russian Senators have acknowledged losses in the Russian BTGs.


One of the major problem I saw is that Russia try to play a tactical role by ordering surgical strike on target. 

Problem is, they are targeting hard target (such as airfield, barrack) where they should have target Ukrainian Communication system, C&C network, and other important facilities. 

I was virtually dumbfounded when they show the damage on the initial missile strike. And put to that as well, their missile is not at all accurate.....You keep seeing missile got skimmed off, hitting other stuff and so on. Or some don't even explode at all. That is the moment I know Russian invasion is in trouble, you don't even need to wait for the Russian Invasion Funny Video Compilation to know

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## F-22Raptor

The Russian stock market has been closed over a week. Once it does open, expect it to collapse. And who is going to invest in Russia again?


----------



## jhungary

tower9 said:


> Well he was dancing in heels so that’s a pretty good sign a guy is unstable fme.


you should know I wear woman stocking and uses tampon in Iraq........

Those things are necessity over there. Almost everyone (men and women) do that.....

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## LeGenD

NA71 said:


> Yes, Yes, Yes....This warning was on RT news for some time.....NATO & US taking it like Iraq or Syria ... We are falling on social media and western fake news ....
> 
> Poland will be first of direct NATO member confrontation if they have allowed missions from their air field. Russians are now conducting Air strikes Cruise missiles and Jets are not that much in action....


There is much NATO airborne activity above NATO member states including Poland. Americans have parked substantial power in the region as well

Russia can threaten all it wants but let us see if it can do something big.

NATO and Russia clashed in Syria once - didn't end well for Russians. The mighty Russian Air Force was nowhere to be seen a the time.

If Russia is not Iraq or Syria - neither is NATO.

So chill.

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500513732002201603


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500532526758174724^ Tunguska SHORAD spotted in Kyiv.


----------



## That Guy

sammuel said:


> Is this a joke ? Survival ? Have you any idea how much power Russia have ?
> 
> This is not a war of survival but a war of ego !
> 
> One look at this table tells you what it is all about :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> does this seem normal to you ?
> 
> 
> ~


What is with this man and his obsession with extremely long tables?

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## Mujahid Memon



Reactions: Like Like:
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2 | Sad Sad:
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## Bilal.

jhungary said:


> Somehow I read that tweet as *"No Slav are allowed in Paradise"............*


Ukrainians are Slavs, no?

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## jhungary

LeGenD said:


> There is much NATO airborne activity above NATO member states including Poland. Americans have parked substantial power in the region as well
> 
> Russia can threaten all it wants but let us see if it can do something big.
> 
> NATO and Russia clashed in Syria once - didn't end well for Russians. The mighty Russian Air Force was nowhere to be seen a the time.
> 
> If Russia is not Iraq or Syria - neither is NATO.
> 
> So chill.








Like this one.......



Bilal. said:


> Ukrainians are Slavs, no?


Yeah, both Ukrainian and Russian were Slav

I misread "Slaves" to "Slav" the first time I saw that tweet...


----------



## RescueRanger

That Guy said:


> What is with this man and his obsession with extremely long tables?


It’s a power thing to alert dominance. Simple things like large desks, clasping a handshake with the hand over the top (assert dominance) , hand on waists - nonsense like that.



Mujahid Memon said:


> View attachment 821431


Stealing this.

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## Dustom999

Special ride.


----------



## jhungary

That Guy said:


> What is with this man and his obsession with extremely long tables?


That's the man who constantly ask for salt and not getting them......

"Pass the Salt Please"
"What??"

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## sammuel

~

Fact reminder :

Russia is the largest country in the world.

It has landmass of 11% of the world. 

After Canada US and china that have about half of what Russia has ( about 6% )






~


----------



## AsianLion

Breaking news:

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## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russian stock market has been closed over a week. Once it does open, expect it to collapse. And who is going to invest in Russia again?



This can only end in regime change in Russia. They must have back channels with Russian generals and powerbrokers. if it gets out of hand I have no doubt US has a decapitation strike option that will not lead to nuclear war.


----------



## sammuel

That Guy said:


> What is with this man and his obsession with extremely long tables?



Maybe compensating for something . . .

~

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## F-22Raptor

LeGenD said:


> There is much NATO airborne activity above NATO member states including Poland. Americans have parked substantial power in the region as well
> 
> Russia can threaten all it wants but let us see if it can do something big.
> 
> NATO and Russia clashed in Syria once - didn't end well for Russians. The mighty Russian Air Force was nowhere to be seen a the time.
> 
> If Russia is not Iraq or Syria - neither is NATO.
> 
> So chill.





The US is providing the Ukrainians near real time intelligence on Russian positions and force movements. It’s one reason why Ukraine has inflicted so many losses on Russia.

US battle space awareness is absurd.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> This can only end in regime change in Russia. They must have back channels with Russian generals and powerbrokers. if it gets out of hand I have no doubt US has a decapitation strike option that will not lead to nuclear war.


Rumour has it that FSB is not exactly loyal to Putin, there are rumor that FSB is piping information to the Ukrainian security Bureau

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## Ali_Baba

NA71 said:


> Yes, Yes, Yes....This warning was on RT news for some time.....NATO & US taking it like Iraq or Syria ... We are falling on social media and western fake news ....
> 
> Poland will be first of direct NATO member confrontation if they have allowed missions from their air field. Russians are now conducting Air strikes Cruise missiles and Jets are not that much in action....



Russia dare not challenge Poland - period. If he does - NATO will impose a no fly zone over Ukraine and there is no way the Russian air force can challenge NATO airpower ever.

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## thetutle

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> Fact reminder :
> 
> Russia is the largest country in the world.
> 
> It has landmass of 11% of the world.
> 
> After Canada US and china that have about half of what Russia has ( about 6% )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


This map is inaccurate. Russia is not even twice the size of china. The map is biased towards the northern hemisphere


----------



## PaklovesTurkiye

Kharkiv in 2019 - Life in a City​




The same city which is _being bombed_ right now and is unrecognisable. 

There is a message in all this......

1. Time changes so be humble always.

2. Smaller countries *should never* give up their NUKES/security on guarantee of big players.

3. Less powerful countries *should never* become a pawn in confrontation of big powers. 

Sadly, Ukraine got sacrificed in confrontation of US and Russia. 

Poor Ukrainians.

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## maverick1977

The war will spread across europe. How atupid of Poland, Romania and Hungry to provide weapons to Ukrainians

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Rumour has it that FSB is not exactly loyal to Putin, there are rumor that FSB is piping information to the Ukrainian security Bureau


Yes for sure. But lets not forget what poster said above. the US battle space awareness is like probably beyond what any of us have even seen on the movies. 

And it would be criminal not to share it with the ukranians.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Zelenskiy asks United Nations’ top court to issue emergency ruling requiring Moscow to stop its attacks – as it happened


Hopes of establishing a humanitarian corridor out of besieged city of Mariupol dashed for second day running




www.theguardian.com





*Pakistan’s prime minister, Imran Khan, has responded to a joint letter from the heads of diplomatic missions urging Pakistan to condemn Russia, *saying, “What do you think of us? Are we your slaves ... that whatever you say, we will do?”

On 1 March, the heads of 22 diplomatic missions had publicised a joint letter calling on Pakistan to support a resolution in the United Nations general assembly to condemn Russia’s aggression against Ukraine, Reuters reports, noting that the move to release the letter was rare:



> In the event, Pakistan, a traditional ally of the west, abstained from voting as the UN general assembly overwhelmingly reprimanded Russia for invading Ukraine.
> “I want to ask the European Union ambassadors: Did you write such a letter to India?” Khan said at a political rally on Sunday, noting that Pakistan’s arch-rival had also abstained. Khan also said European countries had not censured India for its actions in Kashmir, a mountainous region over which Pakistan and India have fought two wars.

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## Microsoft

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> Fact reminder :
> 
> Russia is the largest country in the world.
> 
> It has landmass of 11% of the world.
> 
> After Canada US and china that have about half of what Russia has ( about 6% )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~



How much is it with Ukraine included?


----------



## RescueRanger

Ali_Baba said:


> Zelenskiy asks United Nations’ top court to issue emergency ruling requiring Moscow to stop its attacks – as it happened
> 
> 
> Hopes of establishing a humanitarian corridor out of besieged city of Mariupol dashed for second day running
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Pakistan’s prime minister, Imran Khan, has responded to a joint letter from the heads of diplomatic missions urging Pakistan to condemn Russia, *saying, “What do you think of us? Are we your slaves ... that whatever you say, we will do?”
> 
> On 1 March, the heads of 22 diplomatic missions had publicised a joint letter calling on Pakistan to support a resolution in the United Nations general assembly to condemn Russia’s aggression against Ukraine, Reuters reports, noting that the move to release the letter was rare:


He’s not wrong, I support IK in this 110%

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Yes for sure. But lets not forget what poster said above. the US battle space awareness is like probably beyond what any of us have even seen on the movies.
> 
> And it would be criminal not to share it with the ukranians.


Well, all I can say is, yes, US Battle Space awareness is very good, but intelligence will not be share without limitation. Everything have limitation, which mean you can only share so much before the other side or Russia can guess what you are capable of. 

Intelligence dissimilation is a very complicated process, while I do believe US have Air and Ground asset monitoring what's Russia is doing, I do not believe, speaking on my own experience, that everything the US know shared with the Ukrainian...

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## zartosht

Nice drone footage captures a realistic battle/ambush: 

This is in Kherson feb 24, 2-3 Russian squads (probably special forces) Ambushed a ukranian artillery column. Then waited and ambushed the rescue/recon force coming to asses damage or check for survivors..






Russian forces captured a major city, with barely any damage to infastracture, and even intact ukranian military bases captured. With the Ukrainian defenses falling apart. It is absolutely unprecedented in modern times for an army to capture a major city without absolutely pummeling it first with airstrikes/artillery.

This far better then anything the americans have ever achieved in their entire military history. and a good wakeup call for all the people falling for western propaganda about how the Ukies are putting up a glorious defense and slaughtering the Russians blablabal

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## jhungary

maverick1977 said:


> The war will spread across europe. How atupid of Poland, Romania and Hungry to provide weapons to Ukrainians


At this rate, you are looking at probably next year when this war goes across the border into Moldova.

It's 11 days, the Russian still has not conquered Mariupol, which is 20 km from the Demilitarized Zone........


----------



## EvoluXon

RIP Covert Wars (1945-2022).


----------



## jhungary

zartosht said:


> Nice drone footage captures a realistic battle/ambush:
> 
> This is in Kherson feb 24, 2-3 Russian squads (probably special forces) Ambushed a ukranian artillery column. Then waited and ambushed the rescue/recon force coming to asses damage or check for survivors..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian forces captured a major city, with barely any damage to infastracture, and even intact ukranian military bases captured. With the Ukrainian defenses falling apart. It is absolutely unprecedented in modern times for an army to capture a major city without absolutely pummeling it first with airstrikes/artillery.
> 
> This far better then anything the americans have ever achieved in their entire military history. and a good wakeup call for all the people falling for western propaganda about how the Ukies are putting up a glorious defense and slaughtering the Russians blablabal


You do know the Russian force retreated after this drone video......

Kherson is in ruin and it felt on the 3rd March, not 25th Feb when this drone video was taken...

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500538967925698561

Ukrainian forces are well entrenched in Odessa


----------



## maverick1977

Ali_Baba said:


> Zelenskiy asks United Nations’ top court to issue emergency ruling requiring Moscow to stop its attacks – as it happened
> 
> 
> Hopes of establishing a humanitarian corridor out of besieged city of Mariupol dashed for second day running
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Pakistan’s prime minister, Imran Khan, has responded to a joint letter from the heads of diplomatic missions urging Pakistan to condemn Russia, *saying, “What do you think of us? Are we your slaves ... that whatever you say, we will do?”
> 
> On 1 March, the heads of 22 diplomatic missions had publicised a joint letter calling on Pakistan to support a resolution in the United Nations general assembly to condemn Russia’s aggression against Ukraine, Reuters reports, noting that the move to release the letter was rare:




He might loose his life not just premiership.. slaves do not talk back to their masters


----------



## zartosht

jhungary said:


> You do know the Russian force retreated after this drone video......
> 
> Kherson is in ruin and it felt on the 3rd March, not 25th Feb when this drone video was taken...


I dont see the Russians retreating in the video. I dont know what your looking at. 

and Kherson is not in ruins... a couple of pictures given out by western propaganda doesnt mean a city is in ruins... look at fallujah to see how the americans take a city. 

Also i have lost track my friend. You were special forces, intelligence, and naval diver, and paratrooper with strategic level planning abilities. I suggest you offer your services to the 'dumb' russian officers/generals. Who have no clue what they are doing, and would be winning if they only listened to your spam.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500540223717097480

Russia is overextending its lines. They are ripe for ambushes


----------



## The SC

maverick1977 said:


> The war will spread across europe. How atupid of Poland, Romania and Hungry to provide weapons to Ukrainians


The US will fight Russia to the last ex-Soviet..They are in NATO as a shield for Western Europe..

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## Microsoft

zartosht said:


> look at fallujah to see how the americans take a city.



This is what the hypocrites are comparing the Russian invasion to when they say the "Russian army is too slow"



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500538967925698561
> 
> Ukrainian forces are well entrenched in Odessa



For how long? The Russian army in the south must be moving at lightning speed if some jacks in the street are the sign of their resistance


----------



## jhungary

zartosht said:


> I dont see the Russians retreating in the video. I dont know what your looking at.
> 
> and Kherson is not in ruins... a couple of pictures given out by western propaganda doesnt mean a city is in ruins... look at fallujah to see how the americans take a city.
> 
> Also i have lost track my friend. You were special forces, intelligence, and naval diver, and paratrooper with strategic level planning abilities. I suggest you offer your services to the 'dumb' russian officers/generals. Who have no clue what they are doing, and would be winning if they only listened to your spam.



It is in ruin, and they did retreated.

And I am not a naval diver, never said I was, I think you mistaken me with someone. But I was in the Special Force, am Parachute qualified (a requirement for being in the Special Force) and I work as a staff officer. But then you probably know shit about Military Structure.

And you are stupid to think the Russia invasion is going great.

This happened at that bridge on the 25th at Kherson


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

NA71 said:


> jang o jadal mein ...tuba astagfar



My mann.. You were fishing but it is fair game.. We Men gon' Men


----------



## Messerschmitt

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500533166683168776





Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500463871605325828





Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500377845675311105





Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500357203844345858

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500536549028634631


----------



## EvoluXon

The SC said:


> The US will fight Russia to the last ex-Soviet..They are in NATO as a shield for Western Europe..


Russia cant afford to wait till last ex soviet.. that's why putin has activated deterrence force too early. If russia feels that things are going in downhill direction for them ..they will drag nato members with them


----------



## Microsoft

The countries sending their warplanes to Ukraine are just weakening their own defences. If Russia considers the assistance a declaration of war who will protect them? They are putting too much trust in NATO.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500542292054183947


----------



## sur

sammuel said:


> . . . *One look at this table tells you what it is all about :*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> does this seem normal to you ?
> 
> 
> ~



War of Furniture!

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## RescueRanger

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500542292054183947


I’m not a military aviation man- is it safe to assume whatever was in that green box at 0:56 is bye bye?



sur said:


> War of Furniture!
> 
> 
> View attachment 821446
> 
> 
> View attachment 821447


It’s definitely not ikea that’s for sure.!😂


----------



## K_Bin_W

RescueRanger said:


> He’s not wrong, I support IK in this 110%


Me too.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500543822484455426

Ukrainian forces ambushing a Russian armored vehicle today

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## NA71

RescueRanger said:


> He’s not wrong, I support IK in this 110%


Sir how can I give you *positive rating* for your support to IK....

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## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> Russia dare not challenge Poland - period. If he does - NATO will impose a no fly zone over Ukraine and there is no way the Russian air force can challenge NATO airpower ever.


lol I laugh at people ignorance when they think Russia is in any real contention with NATO in a conventional war.

US defence budget is 2/3 of the entire Russian GDP in 2021. Just let that sink in for a moment.

And then you look at Ukraine and they manage to make a big mess out of it. Against NATO?

I don't remember when is the last time any Army lost 3 generals in combat. Probably have to go all the way to Korean War....

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## RescueRanger

NA71 said:


> Sir how can I give you *positive rating* for your support to IK....


Your words are enough. 🙂. IK is a good man- better than what we’ve had in a very long time. He speaks the truth.

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## NA71

RescueRanger said:


> Your words are enough. 🙂. IK is a good man- better than what we’ve had in a very long time. He speaks the truth.


Good man but surrounded by many nawaz sharif.

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## Pakistani Fighter

RescueRanger said:


> He speaks the truth.


----------



## NA71

IK also said if he survive No confidence Move ...phir dekhna mein in kay saath karta kiya hon.....

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Well, all I can say is, yes, US Battle Space awareness is very good, but intelligence will not be share without limitation. Everything have limitation, which mean you can only share so much before the other side or Russia can guess what you are capable of.
> 
> Intelligence dissimilation is a very complicated process, while I do believe US have Air and Ground asset monitoring what's Russia is doing, I do not believe, speaking on my own experience, that everything the US know shared with the Ukrainian...


Well of course. You can't share so much that the other side figures out how you got it. Although Snowden probably told them the full extent of the capabilities. 

But I hope enough is shared so that Ukraine is denied to them.


----------



## RescueRanger

NA71 said:


> Good man but surrounded by many nawaz sharif.


Yes true.


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Well of course. You can't share so much that the other side figures out how you got it. Although Snowden probably told them the full extent of the capabilities.
> 
> But I hope enough is shared so that Ukraine is denied to them.


Well, Snowden is a contractor, he will know how stuff work, but I doubt he knows everything, information within intelligence circle is compartmentalized, which mean everyone only knows a certain thing, and individually, that does not do anything, but if you put in the group knowledge, then you will know the true capability.

That is why we use a Joint Intelligence system, because the thought of one man (or one group of men) knows everything is very scary. I know what our intelligence services are capable of, but I never know what is their full capacity, and I dare to say, probably no one knows, not even the US President.

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## Messerschmitt

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500543822484455426
> 
> Ukrainian forces ambushing a Russian armored vehicle today




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500546636157796357^ Possibly different angle.

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## Ashesh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500345167211114497

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## LeGenD

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> Kharkiv in 2019 - Life in a City​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The same city which is _being bombed_ right now and is unrecognisable.
> 
> There is a message in all this......
> 
> 1. Time changes so be humble always.
> 
> 2. Smaller countries *should never* give up their NUKES/security on guarantee of big players.
> 
> 3. Less powerful countries *should never* become a pawn in confrontation of big powers.
> 
> Sadly, Ukraine got sacrificed in confrontation of US and Russia.
> 
> Poor Ukrainians.


Well said, bro. Appreciated.

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> lol I laugh at people ignorance when they think Russia is in any real contention with NATO in a conventional war.


Keep laughing, whereas the saner people in Europe and the world are holding their breathe and praying that no incident happens on those nuclear power plants, let alone things getting out of control where nukes start flying around.

Yes, keep laughing. This is what keyboard smashers normally do. Whereas those living in or around war zones are praying for the war to end instead of getting into some d* measure contest.

Talk talk talk... and more talk to add fuel to fire ... typical treat of anglo-saxon bullies. Chinese FM is spot on!

I truly wish the Europe gets its act together and gets rid of these anglo-saxon hyenas!

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## sammuel

thetutle said:


> This map is inaccurate. Russia is not even twice the size of china. The map is biased towards the northern hemisphere



1.8 to be exact 

*Russia is about 1.8 times bigger than China*.

China is approximately 9,596,960 sq km, while Russia is approximately 17,098,242 sq km, making Russia 78% larger than China.

And take into account that China is the third largest country in the world . . .


~


----------



## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500543822484455426
> 
> Ukrainian forces ambushing a Russian armored vehicle today



What kind of a firefight is this? just a vehicle standing there, no enemy troops anywhere, no support vehicles?


----------



## coffee_cup

Ashesh said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500345167211114497


And Poland is doing absolutely right. 

Right now cooler heads are needed to stop this war and not spread it!


----------



## Ashesh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500553480548892679


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500509772625461252


----------



## Tamerlane

View from an American-Russian. This guy goes by the name of 'The Saker' and is probably the best informed Russian blogger on the internet. I'll post extracts from his latest update. You can read the full article on his website and I suggest you bookmark it for future reference.

*Day 10 of the Russian special operation in Banderastan*







According to am internal Ukrainian document which has been circulating on the Runet, apparently a leak from the Ukie security council, which admits *40% of the Ukrainian territory is under Russian control and over 75% of the Ukie military was destroyed.* Considering the amount of fakes out there, I cannot vouch for the authenticity of this document, but I will notice that those two figures (40% territory and 75% of the military) are exactly what I have been estimating myself, especially the size of the remaining military (which is much more important than holding territory).

This is crucial: the Empire of Lies is lying, of course, but it also knows the true score. *Which means that now that the West has lost the war in the Ukraine it needs two things: as many dead (on all sides) as possible and to make the most political capital possible from this war, which means that not only must it last as long as possible, but it has to “deliver” the biggest number of deaths, maimed and injured.* Besides, that kind of stuff pushes all the correct “emotional buttons” and prevents the audience from using its analytical capabilities, however tiny these might be.





__





Day 10 of the Russian special operation in Banderastan | The Vineyard of the Saker


A bird's eye view of the vineyard




thesaker.is

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## Avicenna

LeGenD said:


> Russia invaded and annexed parts of Ukraine in 2014.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Revisiting the 2014 Annexation of Crimea
> 
> 
> By reminding themselves of 2014’s sequence of events, and of Crimea’s long and varied history, observers can avoid buying into the Russian narrative that legitimizes the annexation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> carnegieeurope.eu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the reason why Zelensky turned to NATO for support. What else could he do?



Bullsh*t.

Why don't you go back a little further in history.






Bucharest Summit Declaration issued by NATO Heads of State and Government (2008)







www.nato.int





Check item 23.


*NATO welcomes Ukraine’s and Georgia’s Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership in NATO. We agreed today that these countries will become members of NATO. * Both nations have made valuable contributions to Alliance operations. We welcome the democratic reforms in Ukraine and Georgia and look forward to free and fair parliamentary elections in Georgia in May. MAP is the next step for Ukraine and Georgia on their direct way to membership. Today we make clear that we support these countries’ applications for MAP. Therefore we will now begin a period of intensive engagement with both at a high political level to address the questions still outstanding pertaining to their MAP applications. We have asked Foreign Ministers to make a first assessment of progress at their December 2008 meeting. Foreign Ministers have the authority to decide on the MAP applications of Ukraine and Georgia.

Issued April 3rd *2008*.

That basically set it off.

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## Oublious

It is a disaster Russian airforce, a modern airforce should able to attack in night time. You can fly high above airdefence systems, but they don't PGM(precision guided munitions) so they are using dumb bombs. Even ther FLIR technology sucks, Ukrain war will be saga, really bad saga

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## Viet

Tamerlane said:


> View from an American-Russian. This guy goes by the name of 'The Saker' and is probably the best informed Russian blogger on the internet. I'll post extracts from his latest update. You can read the full article on his website and I suggest you bookmark it for future reference.
> 
> *Day 10 of the Russian special operation in Banderastan*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to am internal Ukrainian document which has been circulating on the Runet, apparently a leak from the Ukie security council, which admits *40% of the Ukrainian territory is under Russian control and over 75% of the Ukie military was destroyed.* Considering the amount of fakes out there, I cannot vouch for the authenticity of this document, but I will notice that those two figures (40% territory and 75% of the military) are exactly what I have been estimating myself, especially the size of the remaining military (which is much more important than holding territory).
> 
> This is crucial: the Empire of Lies is lying, of course, but it also knows the true score. *Which means that now that the West has lost the war in the Ukraine it needs two things: as many dead (on all sides) as possible and to make the most political capital possible from this war, which means that not only must it last as long as possible, but it has to “deliver” the biggest number of deaths, maimed and injured.* Besides, that kind of stuff pushes all the correct “emotional buttons” and prevents the audience from using its analytical capabilities, however tiny these might be.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Day 10 of the Russian special operation in Banderastan | The Vineyard of the Saker
> 
> 
> A bird's eye view of the vineyard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thesaker.is


Extremely unlikely
That is too quick victory.
Russian invasion force is about 200,000 men maximum that’s is impossible to take over a country of size larger than Germany with a population of 44 million.
Putin likely wants to cut Ukraine into 2 half’s.


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## thetutle

Bosnia as you know has some serbs that support Russia. Today NATO is moving troops and equipment into Bosnia to stop any instability or Russian interference. 

Not that Russians can easily get there, but they dont need a visa to come for a holiday, so you never know. 

Better to be safe than sorry.

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## Ali_Baba

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60635927



TikTok suspends livestreaming and new content in Russia​Video app TikTok says it is suspending livestreaming and new content to its video service in Russia while it reviews the safety implication of a new law which threatens to jail anyone the authorities deem to have spread "fake" news on the armed forces.
The platform says its in-app messaging service will not be affected.
"We will continue to evaluate the evolving circumstances in Russia to determine when we might fully resume our services with safety as our top priority," the company says.
There are an estimated 70 million monthly users of TikTok in Russia, but developers there have launched a rival service.
A number of international media organisations have suspended their work in Russia, citing concerns over their workers' safety with the new law. They include the BBC, Bloomberg News, Canada's CBC, German public broadcasters ARD and ZDF and Italy's Rai, among others.
The Russian government meanwhile has banned access to Facebook.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Viet

Go Ukraine go
The US Congress is about to give $10 billion in emergency aid to Ukraine.


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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Ali_Baba said:


> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60635927
> 
> 
> 
> TikTok suspends livestreaming and new content in Russia​Video app TikTok says it is suspending livestreaming and new content to its video service in Russia while it reviews the safety implication of a new law which threatens to jail anyone the authorities deem to have spread "fake" news on the armed forces.
> The platform says its in-app messaging service will not be affected.
> "We will continue to evaluate the evolving circumstances in Russia to determine when we might fully resume our services with safety as our top priority," the company says.
> There are an estimated 70 million monthly users of TikTok in Russia, but developers there have launched a rival service.
> A number of international media organisations have suspended their work in Russia, citing concerns over their workers' safety with the new law. They include the BBC, Bloomberg News, Canada's CBC, German public broadcasters ARD and ZDF and Italy's Rai, among others.
> The Russian government meanwhile has banned access to Facebook.



Wait is TikTok not China controlled?


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## sammuel

`

In Yekaterinburg, security forces beat a man with batons. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500411289058922497


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## Madni Bappa

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> This is significiant development.. Russians claiming warplanes that is landing in Romania is attacking them
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500503124536143872


CBS News: Blinken says NATO countries have "green light" to send fighter jets to Ukraine.








Blinken says NATO countries have "green light" to send fighter jets to Ukraine


The secretary of state says the U.S. is considering providing fighter jets to Poland if the country sends its own to Ukraine.




www.cbsnews.com





Gorey pagal ho gae hain bhai. Lagta youm e hisab a gya hai.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500550763516465155
'
Russian MANPADS captured by Ukrainian forces

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## The SC

They say 5 of these drones were shot down and other news said 8,, it depends on the date of publishing..


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## Ashesh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500559614273892354


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500550719421751303


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## LeGenD

Avicenna said:


> Bullsh*t.
> 
> Why don't you go back a little further in history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bucharest Summit Declaration issued by NATO Heads of State and Government (2008)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nato.int
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check item 23.
> 
> That basically set it off.


Your opening statement is rude but thanks for this information.

Ukraine is a sovereign country and it can decide its security considerations like any other state. 

But Russia does not wants it to - the classic case of the POWERFUL dictating / oppressing the WEAK.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500551253226573826

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## LeGenD

thetutle said:


> Not that Russians can easily get there, but they dont need a visa to come for a holiday, so you never know.


----------



## Meengla

jhungary said:


> lol I laugh at people ignorance when they think Russia is in any real contention with NATO in a conventional war.
> 
> US defence budget is 2/3 of the entire Russian GDP in 2021. Just let that sink in for a moment.
> 
> And then you look at Ukraine and they manage to make a big mess out of it. Against NATO?
> 
> I don't remember when is the last time any Army lost 3 generals in combat. Probably have to go all the way to Korean War....



Yes.
People are still living in the pre 1980s time when the old mighty Soviet Union sent massive amount of troops here and there and did various proxy wars and truly intrepid move like the Cuban Missile crisis. Those days ended a LONG way ago with suckers like Gorbachev and Yeltsin. 

The Russia of today is a* joke with nukes to blackmail the world. A has been, sick power. * This is no 'bear' to poke as a lot of people here saying---and I had suspected that many years before this war. Russia is a spent force with nukes to blow up the world as *its biggest asset*. It's sad for me so say this but it is what it is. 
PS. Not that I have changed my overall reading of this conflict, as mentioned many times above.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Not sure if this is confirmed.. Heavy fighting is going on in Mariupol right now as per some sources


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500564298317320199

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500563780178227202


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## Iñigo

The cruelty towards Ukraine

The State Department knew perfectly well that Ukraine was divided into two camps, and that is precisely why the State Deparment provoked a civil war. "Ukraine" means "border", "borderlands", and one part is Polish-Ukrainian and another part is Russian-Ukrainian.

They filled their heads with promises, lies and fantasies, to use them as pawns and cannon fodder. As if impoverished Ukraine could magically become Denmark or Norway as long as they killed Russians and were very obedient to the Master in Washington.

A neutral Ukraine was beneficial for all: beneficial for Ukrainians, for Russians and for Western Europeans. The only losers were the fanatics in London and Washington.

Washington and London have been spitting on the USSR's grave for 30 years. This war started in 2008 and now the Russian army is ending it.

The blind Western fanaticism can be seen in this very thread: Crimea is Russia before California, Texas and Nevada was USA and yet some say it is sacred an internal administrative decision of the USSR from 1954. This is the degree of fanaticism: the USSR can be divided; but the Ukraine created by Lenin, Stalin and Khrushchev is sacred and cannot be divided. Ukraine can be separated from the USSR but no territory can be separated from Ukraine.

And, of course, Washington should not be upset if Iran's military advisers train Mexico's army, nor should it be upset if China invites Canada to join a military alliance, and London should not be upset if Scotland rents a naval base to the Russian fleet.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## gambit

Hack-Hook said:


> a determined enemy used the road beside the base for taking off those migs .
> if its a possibility ,* runway denial is nothing but a myth*
> 
> 
> specially when mig-29 can take off like this


Myth...??? Yeah...

To start, you need aircrafts *DESIGNED* for partially finished runways. The preferred phrase is 'improvised runway'. But even if the aircraft can use improvised runway, there is still a need to defend, maintain, and repair the normal runway system as much as possible.

Now, here is something for you to consider...

Aircraft load can, not always, be affected by improvised runway. The more 'improvised' the runway, you have two choices: Either you take longer for TO/L or you reduce your combat load to use the same length as the normal runway. The improvised runway do not have the same load rating, surface constant, traction value, and several other factors. You think am making this up?

Here is just *ONE* examples of many docs regarding runways...



https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/ARN20783_TC_3-04x16_FINAL_WEB.pdf



Why did I used a US Army doc? Because the Army have a lot of experience in living/working with improvised runways. Use keyword 'soil' for example. You will see issues such as load rating, jet blasts because often the Army has to make runways for AF cargo jets. There is a section in there for C-130 and C-17 operations.

The following are standard design requirements for *most airfield construction or restoration* missions:​​Design of drainage system structure.​Geometric design of RWY, TWYs, and hardstands (including overruns, blast areas, and turnarounds).​Selection of soils found in cuts and use of soil to improve subgrade.​Compaction or stabilization requirements of the subgrade.​Determination of type and thickness of the base and surface courses.​Selection of grade to minimize earthwork while still meeting specifications.​Design of access and service roads.​Design of ammunition and petroleum, oils, and lubricants (POL) storage areas, NAVAIDs; hardstands, maintenance and warm up aprons, corrosion control facilities, control towers, airfield lighting, and other facilities​
See the highlighted: construction or restoration.

Restoration from what? Maybe the improvised runway was also damaged in the attack. Or maybe harsh weather washed off some surface soil. Or maybe freezing temperature made the improvised runway too slick to be used.

Table 4-1. Army airfield and heliport classes Class Definition (controlling aircraft weights reflect operational weight)​​I Heliports/pads with aircraft 25,000 lbs. (11,340 kgs) or less. Controlling aircraft (UH-60)-16,300 lbs. (7,395 kgs).​​II Heliports/pads with aircraft over 25,000 lbs. (11,340 kgs). Controlling aircraft (CH-47)-50,000 lbs. (22,680 kgs).​​III Airfield with class A runways. Controlling aircraft (combination of C-23 aircraft-24,600 lbs. (11,200 kgs) and a CH-47 aircraft at 50,000 lbs. (22,680 kgs). Class A runways are primarily used for small aircraft (C-12 and C-23).​​IV Airfields w/class B runways. The controlling aircraft is a C-130 aircraft at 155,000 lbs. (70,310 kgs) operational weight or a C-17 aircraft at 580,000 lbs. (263,100 kgs) operational weight. Class B runways are primarily used for high performance and large heavy aircraft (C-130, C-17, and C-141).​​V Heliports/pads supporting Army assault training missions. Controlling aircraft (CH-47)-50,000 lbs. (22,680 kgs).​​VI Assault landing zones for operations supporting Army training missions that have semi-prepared or paved landing surfaces. Controlling aircraft (C-130-155,000 lbs. [70,310 kgs] or C-17-580,000 lbs. [263,100 kgs]). Legend: lbs= pounds, kgs= kilograms​​Do you see those tonnage ratings for different aircrafts? Even smaller and lighters fighters, like my F-16, are affected.

5-36. Weather, terrain, RWY conditions, amount of available equipment and remaining fuel, and crash location are some factors that govern placing equipment at an aircraft's crash operation. Prefire plans can only cover general placement procedures and should allow for flexibility, based on the situation. *Other factors to consider include—*​​Aircraft's landing speed.​Wind direction and speed.​Aircraft's stopping distance.​
Do you see the highlighted above?

The literature on runways and airfields are enormous, even if dealing with austere airfields and improvised runways. Everything in that Army doc are applicable to the AF in either making improvised runways to supplement the main system, or in deploying to austere airfields with improvised runways. I may have no choice but to sortie with reduced loads because the improvised runway cannot handle the full load.

People like you who have no experience looks at a picture and thinks they know everything about the subject. Runway denial is a myth? I hope the entire Iranian military leadership is filled with people like you.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500558000397893637


----------



## Meengla

coffee_cup said:


> Yes, keep laughing. This is what keyboard smashers normally do. Whereas those living in or around war zones are praying for the war to end instead of getting into some d* measure contest.
> 
> Talk talk talk... and more talk to add fuel to fire ... typical treat of anglo-saxon bullies. Chinese FM is spot on!



Let's get one thing straight for this and all other forums: There are NO experts here just as there were/are never about the Covid Pandemic. The Pandemic and the subsequent war/evacuation in Afghanistan has convinced me, without a doubt, that there as many opinions as there are $ssholes...

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## Avicenna

LeGenD said:


> Your opening statement is rude but thanks for this information.
> 
> Ukraine is a sovereign country and it can decide its security considerations like any other state.
> 
> But Russia does not wants it to - the classic case of the POWERFUL dictating / oppressing the WEAK.



Apologize about the rudeness.

But it's getting to be a bit much the double standards and hypocrisy coming from the "West"

I'm old enough and educated enough to have seen all the BS first hand throughout the years.

The narrative that plays out for public consumption is a far different story than what really drives the events.

At first when it came to the Middle East, I recognize that perhaps as a Muslim I may be seeing a biased picture.

But with Russia/Ukraine, I really have no dog in this fight.

Yet, the nonsense I see peddled is even more ridiculously false regarding the reasons for this war.

As for sovereign nations deciding their own security considerations.

Are you kidding me?

The US has meddled with other countries concerns like no other.

Does the cries of "regime change" for other countries ring a bell?

And that's just in public.

Forget all the covert ops.

Come on now.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Kraetoz

jhungary said:


> lol I laugh at people ignorance when they think Russia is in any real contention with *NATO in a conventional war.*
> 
> US defence budget is 2/3 of the entire Russian GDP in 2021. Just let that sink in for a moment.
> 
> And then you look at Ukraine and they manage to make a big mess out of it. Against NATO?
> 
> I don't remember when is the last time any Army lost 3 generals in combat. Probably have to go all the way to Korean War....


Do you really believe war with Russia and NATO will be conventional? Russia doesn't stand a chance in conventional warfare, so would they intentionally let themselves be destroyed?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## oberschlesier

Iñigo said:


> The cruelty towards Ukraine
> 
> The State Department knew perfectly well that Ukraine was divided into two camps, and that is precisely why the State Deparment provoked a civil war. "Ukraine" means "border", "borderlands", and one part is Polish-Ukrainian and another part is Russian-Ukrainian.
> 
> They filled their heads with promises, lies and fantasies, to use them as pawns and cannon fodder. As if impoverished Ukraine could magically become Denmark or Norway as long as they killed Russians and were very obedient to the Master in Washington.
> 
> A neutral Ukraine was beneficial for all: beneficial for Ukrainians, for Russians and for Western Europeans. The only losers were the fanatics in London and Washington.
> 
> Washington and London have been spitting on the USSR's grave for 30 years. This war started in 2008 and now the Russian army is ending it.
> 
> The blind Western fanaticism can be seen in this very thread: Crimea is Russia before California, Texas and Nevada was USA and yet some say it is sacred an internal administrative decision of the USSR from 1954. This is the degree of fanaticism: the USSR can be divided; but the Ukraine created by Lenin, Stalin and Khrushchev is sacred and cannot be divided. Ukraine can be separated from the USSR but no territory can be separated from Ukraine.
> 
> And, of course, Washington should not be upset if Iran's military advisers train Mexico's army, nor should it be upset if China invites Canada to join a military alliance or if Scotland rents a naval base to the Russian fleet.


This was the case. Mr Putin is now creating a ukrainian nation.


----------



## Microsoft

LeGenD said:


> Your opening statement is rude but thanks for this information.
> 
> Ukraine is a sovereign country and it can decide its security considerations like any other state.
> 
> But Russia does not wants it to - the classic case of the POWERFUL dictating / oppressing the WEAK.



At least Russia is doing it for the sake of its national security. What was the reason for the POWERFUL dictating / oppressing the WEAK in Iraq? The WMDS? Where'd they go?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Bilal.

LeGenD said:


> Your opening statement is rude but thanks for this information.
> 
> Ukraine is a sovereign country and it can decide its security considerations like any other state.
> 
> But Russia does not wants it to - the classic case of the POWERFUL dictating / oppressing the WEAK.


Which world power doesn’t? And given that the consequences are understood isn’t it the responsibility of a country’s leadership to avoid getting entangled in situations that will bring nothing but death and destruction to its people?

What did Saddam achieve out of his stubbornness? what did Qaddafi achieve for his tactlessness? And now the same, what did Zelensky achieve for his country and his people with his ill conceived ambitions?

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## tower9

Kraetoz said:


> Do you really believe war with Russia and NATO will be conventional? Russia doesn't stand a chance in conventional warfare, so would they intentionally let themselves be destroyed?


It won't be conventional. Anybody who thinks so is deluding themselves. The Russians have constantly talked about destroying the world with nukes if it comes to it and I do not think they are bluffing.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500565212893696012

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500565879855144962


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## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500551253226573826


He doesn't believe in Russian death toll of 10,000 and says Russia admitted to 500. 

So there is clearly not 10k troops killed. but they have lost so many vehicles surely there were people in those vehicles. It must be over a thousand troops killed. maybe double that. maybe triple that. We'll never know because they incinerate them in mobile crematoriums unfortunately.

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## Kraetoz

tower9 said:


> It won't be conventional. Anybody who thinks so is deluding themselves. The Russians have constantly talked about destroying the world with nukes if it comes to it and I do not think they are bluffing.


That dude himself said US defence budget is 2/3 of the entire Russian GDP, add NATO and it's stooges on top of that and you have David vs Goliath situation. The war would be anything but conventional.

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## F-22Raptor

thetutle said:


> He doesn't believe in Russian death toll of 10,000 and says Russia admitted to 500.
> 
> So there is clearly not 10k troops killed. but they have lost so many vehicles surely there were people in those vehicles. It must be over a thousand troops killed. maybe double that. maybe triple that. We'll never know because they incinerate them in mobile crematoriums unfortunately.




I don't think the Ukrainian number is far off the mark

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Madni Bappa

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500565212893696012
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500565879855144962


Ok seeing the guy holding up MREs definitely US special forces involved


----------



## jamal18

LeGenD said:


> Your opening statement is rude but thanks for this information.
> 
> Ukraine is a sovereign country and it can decide its security considerations like any other state.
> 
> But Russia does not wants it to - the classic case of the POWERFUL dictating / oppressing the WEAK.


Wrong. Just as the US would not allow Cuba to have nuclear missiles, Russia is the same. 

No, it is not up to the Ukraine. A Ukraine in Nato, with nuclear weapons is not acceptable. The Russians regard this as weapons parked on their front porch. This is a crisis in slow motion, everybody has known that this will happen. A neutral Ukraine is in everybody's benefit and the only solution.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500472220346466305


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500556099744894976

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Angry Angry:
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## thetutle

Madni Bappa said:


> CBS News: Blinken says NATO countries have "green light" to send fighter jets to Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blinken says NATO countries have "green light" to send fighter jets to Ukraine
> 
> 
> The secretary of state says the U.S. is considering providing fighter jets to Poland if the country sends its own to Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cbsnews.com



This is beyond what I had ever hoped for. He actually thinks Russia will have to tolerate NATO supplying jets to Ukraine. 

Thats just remarkable of true. The are saying to Russia "you're a joke". Image someone was arming Saddam while US was invading. its unimaginable. 

And another thing he said, "Ukraine will prevail". Let me tell you one thing, the a secretary of state says that, you can take that to the bank. They will never let Ukraine fail. This means Russia has lost and its a just a question what price Russia pays for its folly. a smaller price if it gives up now or a huge price if it keeps attacking.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500571555725967360


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## Trango Towers

Kraetoz said:


> Do you really believe war with Russia and NATO will be conventional? Russia doesn't stand a chance in conventional warfare, so would they intentionally let themselves be destroyed?


It will go nuclear very very quickly

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## tower9

Kraetoz said:


> That dude himself said US defence budget is 2/3 of the entire Russian GDP, add NATO and it's stooges on top of that and you have David vs Goliath situation. The war would be anything but conventional.


Exactly. At this point, when Putin is talking about nukes, you take him seriously. 

The West has been talking down about Russia and humiliating them since the 90s. They are a past superpower with a great deal of pride. You can consider this Ukraine war their snapping point. You do not keep attacking a bear with their backs against the wall. That is the problem with the Western elites, they are ruthless and do not know their limits. Now Russia is snapping and they are ready to take the entire world with them.



thetutle said:


> This is beyond what I had ever hoped for. He actually thinks Russia will have to tolerate NATO supplying jets to Ukraine.
> 
> Thats just remarkable of true. The are saying to Russia "you're a joke". Image someone was arming Saddam while US was invading. its unimaginable.
> 
> And another thing he said, "Ukraine will prevail". Let me tell you one thing, the a secretary of state says that, you can take that to the bank. They will never let Ukraine fail. This means Russia has lost and its a just a question what price Russia pays for its folly. a smaller price if it gives up now or a huge price if it keeps attacking.



I am sorry but Blinken doesn't know what he is doing and the world will pay for it. He didn't take Russia seriously and now Putin is showing him that that was a mistake. 

Trust me, do you want to live through a nuclear war? Because I don't. There is a point when one needs to learn to shut the **** up and Blinken never learned that lesson.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500573643360854016
More Russian supplies for the Ukrainians


----------



## Microsoft

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500573643360854016
> More Russian supplies for the Ukrainians



Russians capturing Ukrainian cities and infrastructure meanwhile Ukrainians celebrating a new truckload of supplies.

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## gambit

ZeEa5KPul said:


> It's sensor *fusion*. If you want to try throwing shade on China, start by getting the terms right. It's combining data, not making herbal tea.
> 
> As for China not having sensor fusion technology, think again.


Am going to give you, and your fellow PDF Chinese members, a simplified explanation of the technical difference between 'infusion' and 'fusion'.

When I transferred from the F-111 to the F-16, we were also transitioning from the analog 16s to the digital 16s. This is before the phrase 'sensor fusion' became chic. We were testing IR and nav pods attached to the newer models.

If you strapped an IR pod to a jet, that is 'infusion'. You added a different sensor package to the jet. The jet's radar and the newly added IR sensor are now side by side, or companion, or complementary. *BUT THEIR DATA STREAMS ARE IN SEPARATE PATHS.* When you fly, you have to turn your head, take your hands of the stick and/or throttle to make switch changes, and some other cockpit movements to better display and view the different data. Then you will have to make some basic analyses of the data, such as: Is that IR blob on the same altitude, speed, and heading as that radar blob? If it is, you have to remember that combo and move to matching other IR blobs to other radar blobs. This is why some jets have two pilots instead of one. Switchology and ergonomics are also why Soviet/Russian/Chinese fighters are inferior to US fighters even though all jets have the same sensors.

But with sensor fusion, *DATA STREAMS ARE COLLECTED AND COLLATED INTO ONE STREAM* and a computer does it for you. The computer will match the IR blobs to radar blobs and display them in a coherent manner. The computer can also prioritize threat levels for you. The computer is your WSO.

So when Gary (@hungary) used 'infusion' he was technically correct. When you mocked him, you end up a fool because you do not know what you are talking about.

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## Dustom999

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500573643360854016
> More Russian supplies for the Ukrainians


Ukrainians are just helping with flat tires, mechanical problems, wear and tear, transporting Russian hardware to their military bases and then are handing over entire base to Russians.
It is sort of an unpaid chauffeur service.

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## thetutle

tower9 said:


> Exactly. At this point, when Putin is talking about nukes, you take him seriously.
> 
> The West has been talking down about Russia and humiliating them since the 90s. They are a past superpower with a great deal of pride. You can consider this Ukraine war their snapping point. You do not keep attacking a bear with their backs against the wall. That is the problem with the Western elites, they are ruthless and do not know their limits. Now Russia is snapping and they are ready to take the entire world with them.
> 
> 
> 
> I am sorry but Blinken doesn't know what he is doing and the world will pay for it. He didn't take Russia seriously and now Putin is showing him that that was a mistake.
> 
> Trust me, do you want to live through a nuclear war? Because I don't. There is a point when one needs to learn to shut the **** up and Blinken never learned that lesson.


As a European, even though I'm in australia, I can tell you, I would rather a nuclear war than live under Russian control. 

And if Russia is not stopped, we will be living under Russian control. 

There are no circumstances where Russia gets to keep Ukraine. This is clear now. It will be defeated and humiliated, and it will learn to live with it, or the world will end, or at least Russia will end, The world will only end if Russia actually manages to launch properly. And it probably won't.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## F-22Raptor

Microsoft said:


> Russians capturing Ukrainian cities and infrastructure meanwhile Ukrainians celebrating a new truckload of supplies.


Russia hasn't captured any major cities outside of Kherson

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

My pet hamster says he wants to be friends with Putin.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500574438089232389

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## HaMoTZeMaS

Viet said:


> Extremely unlikely
> That is too quick victory.
> Russian invasion force is about 200,000 men maximum that’s is impossible to take over a country of size larger than Germany with a population of 44 million.
> Putin likely wants to cut Ukraine into 2 half’s.


Not Likely,
Definitely.. Why?

Need to dig some history of the City Keiv and Who was person Named Vladimir .. Not Vladimir Putin


----------



## Microsoft

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia hasn't captured any major cities outside of Kherson



Moving goalposts is just a coping mechanism. Soon it'll be "Russia hasn't advanced into western Ukraine". I would hope that *any* incursion (a farm, a village, a city) would be indefensible but to be fair a major city is still better than 1 truck of supplies or even 100 trucks.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500577734967365632

Russian equipment losses now, at minimum, exceed 800.



Microsoft said:


> Moving goalposts is just a coping mechanism. Soon it'll be "Russia hasn't advanced into western Ukraine". I would hope that *any* incursion (a farm, a village, a city) would be indefensible but to be fair a major city is still better than 1 truck of supplies or even 100 trucks.




Russia has made little progress in the last 24-48 hours.

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## Paul2

coffee_cup said:


> How much does a top notch comedian make in Ukraine (he is certainly not top notch, but for the arguments sake, lets assume he is) ?
> 
> 100K $ a year? 200K$ after expenses, including all sorts of promotions (I am being very generous here). Ok lets give him 100K more.... still he would need like 1000+ years to make half a billion$ with that.
> 
> Both you and me know, there is only one possible way to pile it up in a corrupt country like Ukraine .... immense corruption!!



If a comedian is a more solid nation leader than Western one, I can only say that Western leaders are poor comedians.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500577734967365632
> 
> Russian equipment losses now, at minimum, exceed 800.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has made little progress in the last 24-48 hours.



Yep, and most of tanks are their best, post-USSR equipment.

I guess it's the equipment of Russian 1st tank army.

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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> If a comedian is a more solid nation leader than Western one, I can only say that Western leaders are poor comedians.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, and most of tanks are their best, post-USSR equipment.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500579080080605192

Another Russian column annihilated in Luhansk


----------



## sur

Messerschmitt said:


> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500432948390158338
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500491124116500486


I am feeling guilty trying to write following because it will seem as if I am defending Russians, I am not. But have to bring this up because *it's important to see if Ukrainians are deliberately trying to have civilian causalities or not*.




This *bridge was demolished on or prior to 25-Feb-2022 by Ukrainians* themselves as reported by multiple pro-Ukrainian accounts (see img #5).
Firstly when they demolished it, they hurt few souls as seen by the *van in the collapsed bridge* (#6).

Then *these civilians* in quoted post* are killed probably around 6-Mar* as per the timestamp of tweets.

From 25-Feb to 6-Mar* for almost 10 days Ukrainians didn't allow civilians to evacuate *despite knowing that Russians were coming from this side.

Russians have repeatedly alleged that Ukrainians are using *civilians as human shield* and have not allowed to leave.

Now I will give weightage to Russian claims* based on other pieces of evidence seen earlier like Ukrainian soldiers taken positions in Daycare/Kindergarten*(#1), canon amid apartments (#2), bunkers on apartment roofs (#3), shooting the escaping civilians, killing mayor of their own city, and killing one of their own negotiators, etc. And based on that precedence I *speculate* that Ukrainians *willfully started evacuation right when Russians were firing*, as indicated by *Ukr soldier's behaviour* (#4) in the footage, and ducking journalist, both indicate that an active fire was going on, yet Ukrainians decided to allow civilians evacuate in direct fire. Based on precedence, Ukrainians wanted to have civilian causalities and a journalist was ready to capture that exact moment.

Lots of civilians can be seen in background (#4) leaving in direction away from collapsed bridge with luggage right when allegedly Russians are firing.


(#1)






(#2)





(#3)





(#4)





(#5)







(#6)

1= civilians killed at this location.
2= cameraperson probably a journalist.
3= collapsed bridge with a fallen van.
4= billboards.
5= church.
6= white high rise buildings.



















After repeatedly watching the clip, it even looks *staged?* to me because fireball was smack in the middle of road and* both civilians and cameraperson and soldier in black was equidistance from that fireball*. Also the* fence did not seem shaken *by the explosion. Soldier in black crawled away then probably returned on feet.

Soldiers immediately turned to victims, Cameraperson to more exposed place, and turned their backs towards alleged Russians were they certain Russians won't fire any more shells?

Apparent injuries on civilians also don't look like they were fatally injured.
And one lady has *clean face and hands* and no apparent injury.
Now it's possible that blast wave might have killed them, but such a strong wave must *scatter the luggage* too.
And *eye glasses* on one guy are as if he laid down slowly and carefully. A body flung by a blast wave won't have eye glasses to well put in place.
*No shrapnel damage* on jackets.
*Railing, coffee cup, plastic water bottle, and even a white tissue paper or a plastic bag*, all indicate there was no blast of any lethal intensity.







Spoiler: Graphic Warning

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500579080080605192
> 
> Another Russian column annihilated in Luhansk



It's recent's footage guessing by the weather.

Ukrainian forces in the east are still active.

Big question is how they are being resupplied so close to the enemy, or they just have a lot of supplies from the start due to them holding the line before the war started?


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

haha..Brian Wang








Putin Chooses to Be China's Flunky Instead of the USA | NextBigFuture.com


There are various reports about Putin having decades long anger at Russia losing the Cold War to the West. Putin felt humiliated that Russia was treated as




www.nextbigfuture.com


----------



## AsianLion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500489718332641282


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500545140611551233

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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> It's recent's footage guessing by the weather.
> 
> Ukrainian forces in the east are still active.
> 
> Big question is how they are being resupplied so close to the enemy, or they just have a lot of supplies from the start due to them holding the line before the war started?




It seems Russias strategy at this point is to brute force this with numbers and mass artillery indirect fires at cities and population centers. Nothing else is working for them.


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500372125143560193

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## Paul2

AsianLion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500489718332641282



The regular tube artillery is still devastating in 2022.

Even old Soviet 122mm can deliver pinpoint accuracy if used by expert gunners, depending on how fresh is the barrel.

The drone video where they pop 3 tanks in a row using the drone as a spotter is good example.

122mm is still the cheapest indirect precision fire weapon armies can afford.

The general trend in armies around the world was to go for bigger bang, longer range, but this ignores that most of range increase will never be used, and a direct hit by 122mm in the roof will still take out any piece of armour today.

There are other means for artillery to deliver more firepower than going for bigger guns: MLRS, tactical missiles, and for bigger targets there is aviation.

For every target big enough for 155mm usage, the target can be taken out quicker, and more reliably by something else today.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500579769850683399

Russia is at serious risk of overextending its lines, being attacked from the rear, and front forces being enveloped and crushed.


----------



## AsianLion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500465032966062082

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## RescueRanger

coffee_cup said:


> Here is a "What-IF" scenario.
> Lets forget nuclear for a while.
> 
> We have seen what a virus can do to the world.
> What if some of those biological weapon labs gets hit and some nasty virus gets lose?
> 
> Honestly, one wrong move or "minor" mis-calculation can get out of hand very quickly.
> 
> And that makes me worried!



Fair enough I’m always open to the possibilities- a few years ago people would have dismissed the SARS Covid virus from Wuhan as the wet dreams of someone whose played too many resident evil games.

But that happened - I think that there is always a possibility for the unexpected but at the same time the propaganda is high on both sides - let’s see what happens- blinkin has authorised the transfer of aircraft to Ukraine.

What fruits will that decision produce - we all await with bated breath.


----------



## Trango Towers

thetutle said:


> As a European, even though I'm in australia, I can tell you, I would rather a nuclear war than live under Russian control.
> 
> And if Russia is not stopped, we will be living under Russian control.
> 
> There are no circumstances where Russia gets to keep Ukraine. This is clear now. It will be defeated and humiliated, and it will learn to live with it, or the world will end, or at least Russia will end, The world will only end if Russia actually manages to launch properly. And it probably won't.


Stop being melodramatic.
Watching American propaganda only kills brain cells

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500581854029783044

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500582856715866126

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500583328285659138

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500586268530462720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500586687277277188

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## Wood



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## AsianLion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500013003844034561

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500587534023368706

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## RescueRanger

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500581854029783044
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500582856715866126
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500583328285659138
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500586268530462720
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500586687277277188


Ukraine is fast becoming a convention for the Who’s Who of Neo Nazis groups in and outside Europe.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500587534023368706


The internet breeds a rabid community that thrives on schadenfreude.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500586783519690753

Russia has now committed 95% of its pre staged forces. Almost no reserves left

Russia has launched over 600 missiles in the last 11 days. For comparisons sake, the US launched 500 missiles on Day 1 of the second Gulf War.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500519200565174274

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500588159113089030
No significant movement in Russian forces in last couple days.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500588738845593604

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500589086754897920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500589562221015041

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500589802298691591

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## AsianLion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499292519192014849

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Zelensky again calling for "humanitarian air support to close Ukrainian skies"



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500472014452273157

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## Paul2

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500519200565174274



Wasn't it the US who send Stoltenberg to Poland to stop exactly that?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500576124195254276


----------



## tower9

thetutle said:


> As a European, even though I'm in australia, I can tell you, I would rather a nuclear war than live under Russian control.
> 
> And if Russia is not stopped, we will be living under Russian control.
> 
> There are no circumstances where Russia gets to keep Ukraine. This is clear now. It will be defeated and humiliated, and it will learn to live with it, or the world will end, or at least Russia will end, The world will only end if Russia actually manages to launch properly. And it probably won't.



First of all, like you said, you are in Australia. You are not getting nuked. So that's easy for you to say. 

Secondly, the world isn't black and white. This did not need to happen. I don't support Russia's invasion of Ukraine but there were many things that could have not been done in the run up to this that would've not led to this unfortunate tragedy.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500590764304347143


----------



## beast89

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500556099744894976


Ukrainian company too


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500591387934351367


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500578893262200833

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500588183662338048

Nightmare for Putin

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500518577698480129

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500592856725135363

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## RescueRanger

This could be a big deal if Putin and zelensky agree to talks hosted by Erdogan

Ukraine open to discussing 'non-NATO models', negotiator tells Fox News:​









Ukraine open to discussing 'non-NATO models', negotiator tells Fox News


Ukraine is not willing to compromise on its territorial integrity in talks with Russia but is open to discussing "non- NATO models" for its future, in a wider forum, one of its negotiators told Fox News.




www.reuters.com

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## beast89

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500519200565174274


USA trying to add more fuel

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## Vergennes

There is no real change on the ground, the Russians are struggling around Mikolaiv. The front is still stuck in Mariupol (still encircled),Kharkiv or Kiev...

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> There is no real change on the ground, the Russians are struggling around Mikolaiv. The front is still stuck in Mariupol (still encircled),Kharkiv or Kiev...





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500590217283227657


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500591734568505350


----------



## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> There is no real change on the ground, the Russians are struggling around Mikolaiv. The front is still stuck in Mariupol (still encircled),Kharkiv or Kiev...




I don't know how they can take Kiev at this point. They don't have nearly enough forces and their supply lines are doo doo. Another 2-3 weeks of stalemate and Russia is in huge trouble.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500594051334250503


----------



## LeGenD

Recommended:









Ukraine War Resource Hub - EU DisinfoLab


Essential information and links to reliable research, analysis and fact-checks to help you navigate during this crisis.




www.disinfo.eu





Also added in following thread:





__





Repository of journalistic sources and how to use them with Russia - Ukraine War in focus and Fact-checking considerations


Dear members, Some members complain about the issue of reporting bias (and propaganda) in journalistic contents. These complaints were noticed in the following thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/ This thread is created to address the...



defence.pk

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500582639547437067

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## Genghis khan1

Tamerlane said:


> Leaving aside Muslims for a moment, let's discuss the concept of right and wrong. We're told to speak the truth even in front of a tyrant, promote what is right and forbid what is wrong, do justice even if we hate someone.
> 
> Where is the justice in what is happening? Both Ukraine and Russia are victims of this. Russians were being killed non-stop for the last eight years. This guy, Zelensky, was baiting Russia on behalf of his foreign masters into attacking Ukraine. Now he's promoting as much death and destruction as he can.
> 
> What is the West doing for Ukraine? Encouraging Zelensky to keep fighting. Sending weapons and mercenaries so that the war goes on no matter how many Ukrainians are killed.
> 
> Russia was practically begging the West to accept them, but they refused. Now they're demonizing Russians all over the world, seizing their property, firing them from jobs, trying to create unrest in Russia. Is this fair and just?
> 
> If for no other reason, just for the sake of justice I would support Russia in this fiasco.


Plot twist: Jew Zelenky is baiting Russians to kill all the NeoNazis in Ukraine.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500548544717111296


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500594809735684097
Only thing Russia can do is commit mass war crimes. Their not even hiding it.


----------



## khansaheeb

Iron Shrappenel said:


> Beard game stronk man.... Want to know his beard management routine...


Chechnyans will demolish the Ukrainians.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Russian armed forces have today virtually decimated what is left of the Ukrainian air force. 👇👇 Today, they shot down 8 fighter jets and 2 helicopters. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500515367675912195

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## F-22Raptor

khansaheeb said:


> Chechnyans will demolish the Ukrainians.




The Chechens that came to fight in Ukraine were annihilated and retreated with their tails between their legs.

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## FairAndUnbiased

F-22Raptor said:


> I don't know how they can take Kiev at this point. They don't have nearly enough forces and their supply lines are doo doo. Another 2-3 weeks of stalemate and Russia is in huge trouble.


Right now one of the main questions is civilian presence.

if Russia was truly at the end of their rope then how come it's Ukrainians pulling desperation moves like releasing prisoners and breaking reservoirs?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500582360093540360

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## Paul2

Russia is moving a lot of hardware from the border with China, judging by the videos on the net. At least a whole division worth of it I think.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> The Chechens that came to fight in Ukraine were annihilated and retreated with their tails between their legs.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500515997819801601

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500539789262704648

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## khansaheeb

F-22Raptor said:


> The Chechens that came to fight in Ukraine were annihilated and retreated with their tails between their legs.


They are still on standby.


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500599641645072388


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500528474401955843

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500599614780682243

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500599744321753099

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500599912094134272

Latest Pentagon assessments


----------



## Flight of falcon

F-22Raptor said:


> The Chechens that came to fight in Ukraine were annihilated and retreated with their tails between their legs.




Right and you were right there watching this happen …..

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## khansaheeb

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500599641645072388


I am glad the Russians haven't invaded Poland or else all we would hear is "Koorva, Koorva and Koorva" from the poles every minute.


----------



## Genghis khan1



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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500584667359195142

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## Hassan Al-Somal

U.S. Army Colonel Douglas Macgregor: "*Frankly, everything that comes out of Ukraine is debunked as lies within 24 hours"*. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500350719639101441

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## F-22Raptor

Flight of falcon said:


> Right and you were right there watching this happen …..




An initial Chechen force was deployed in Ukraine early last week, got destroyed, realized it wasn't 2014 anymore and the Ukrainians had advanced Western small arms, tucked tail and ran.

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## Wood

Appeasement never works with dictators. It did not work with Hitler. It did not work with Putin either

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

*| Ukraine confirmed the death of Denis Kireev, one of the members of the Kiev delegation in the negotiations with Russia, had been arrested by the Ukrainian intelligence accused of "treason". He was shot dead near the Ukrainian capital*



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500257985808982017

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500577734967365632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500578553020272640

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500600523497799681

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500600997504294913


----------



## khansaheeb

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500599614780682243
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500599744321753099
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500599912094134272
> 
> Latest Pentagon assessments


Yes, Russians are consolidating their positions and will attack at a day and time of their choosing when their MI gives the green light.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500581654401888256

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500599912094134272
> Latest Pentagon assessments




So, Russia staked 100 of its 170 BTGs on Ukraine theatre.

Almost 60% of their force is stuck there, with the rest 40% now likely being the low readiness, much lighter force, and much deeper inland.

If anybody attacks Russia now, the attack will go like a hot knife through a butter.

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## Avicenna

Wood said:


> Appeasement never works with dictators. It did not with Hitler. It did not with with Putin either



Liberal Imperialist chickenhawks.


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## F-22Raptor

khansaheeb said:


> Yes, Russians are consolidating their positions and will attack at a day and time of their choosing when their MI gives the green light.





Its more like they don't have the fuel and supplies to continue on. And the resistance is very strong


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500604324187152392

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> An initial Chechen force was deployed in Ukraine early last week, got destroyed, realized it wasn't 2014 anymore and the Ukrainians had advanced Western small arms, tucked tail and ran.



It sounds like you watched too many Hollywood movies and are just sharing what you feel like. Name one area that was captured by Russian forces and then recaptured by Ukrainian forces? 

The Russians are gradually executing their plans by surrounding the Ukrainian forces and cities and then hitting them. The entire Ukrainian air force is decimated, so Western atgms and shoulder-fired SAMs will not have much effect in the initial face of the fighting. May be in the insurgency phase, but in this initial phase, Ukraine's whole cities have been surrounded, and then scotch-earth campaign will follow.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500557635686486023

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500563074616594437

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## RescueRanger

LeGenD said:


> Recommended:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine War Resource Hub - EU DisinfoLab
> 
> 
> Essential information and links to reliable research, analysis and fact-checks to help you navigate during this crisis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.disinfo.eu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also added in following thread:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Repository of journalistic sources and how to use them with Russia - Ukraine War in focus and Fact-checking considerations
> 
> 
> Dear members, Some members complain about the issue of reporting bias (and propaganda) in journalistic contents. These complaints were noticed in the following thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/ This thread is created to address the...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


Another fantastic addition. 👍

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## Ashesh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500602804511117319

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## Wood

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500557635686486023
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500563074616594437


This is a good idea! CIA should fund a program to do this and illegally stream reality of Putin adventure to the Russians binging on fake news


----------



## RescueRanger

F-22Raptor said:


> An initial Chechen force was deployed in Ukraine early last week, got destroyed, realized it wasn't 2014 anymore and the Ukrainians had advanced Western small arms, tucked tail and ran.


Is there proof to support this ?



Ashesh said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500602804511117319


That’s baloney!


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500602398045315075

The Russians are performing so well they now are recruiting Syrians to engage in urban combat in Ukraine.

In other words, the Russians want no part.

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## RescueRanger

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500602398045315075
> 
> The Russians are performing so well they now are recruiting Syrians to engage in urban combat in Ukraine.
> 
> In other words, the Russians want no part.


They are just going back to the cookbook many other nations have employed - use a force multiplier.

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## khansaheeb

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500581654401888256


One psycho terrorists helped by other psycho terrorists.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500565829540323332


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

F-22Raptor said:


> An initial Chechen force was deployed in Ukraine early last week, got destroyed, realized it wasn't 2014 anymore and the Ukrainians had advanced Western small arms, tucked tail and ran.



Talk about jumping the gun here.. Chillax my dude the war is just 11 days old and it has not even properly started.. All the convoys in Kyiv are constructing bases around Kyiv for a long siege hence there has not even been an actual engagement around Kyiv aside from Hoasmtel or whatever it is called but other then that they wanna circle the city and choke it..

The Ukrainian forces are inside the city and have fortified there positions while the Russians, Chechens and Belarussians battlions are outside the city fortifying bases and building new bases around the city for a long haul siege

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500538428542402578

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500605549586665476


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500606406415761409
Near Kharkiv

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500577734967365632

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## F-22Raptor

RescueRanger said:


> They are just going back to the cookbook many other nations have employed - use a force multiplier.




Kiev is defended by the best Ukrainian forces. They are very well equipped, NATO trained, and NATO standard. Thats a brutal fight waiting for the Russians.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500493414281977856

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## RescueRanger

A close look is all you need:

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> Kiev is defended by the best Ukrainian forces. They are very well equipped, NATO trained, and NATO standard. Thats a brutal fight waiting for the Russians.


.. not to mention that they are better motivated given that they are defending their home.

But Russia will eventually overrun them. Perhaps within the next week.

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## RescueRanger

F-22Raptor said:


> Kiev is defended by the best Ukrainian forces. They are very well equipped, NATO trained, and NATO standard. Thats a brutal fight waiting for the Russians.


That is not what I asked. Please don’t confuse me for a Russian sympathisers but I normally expect facts to go with such a bombastic statement as the one I challanged.

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## Paul2

Wood said:


> Appeasement never works with dictators. It did not work with Hitler. It did not work with Putin either



This is why I don't see this ending.

If Russian past track record is and indicator, they are ready to bury enemies their own bodies if needed.

I remember reading about Russian WW2 book. In Chechnya, they took grievous casualties, almost collapsed, but in the end won. Attrition warfare in its finest.

Putins idea is that he has more soldiers than Ukrainians have bullets.

Even if they will be really beaten back to their staging grounds, they will be coming back until a complete defeat.

Ukraine has no power at the moment to really overrun Russians enough for them to consider the war to be lost.

And even if they will hit that "the war is lost moment," they will wrap up, and regroup in a few years with draft covering for all lost troops. Even without military hardware, Russia still has 140 million people, of which most are rather obedient, and well educated to man sophisticated weapons.

Unless Ukraine can really capture territory _from_ Russia, they cannot set a long term defensible line.

In other words, Putin will keep coming back matter what, unless Moscow falls.


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500608974630141952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500609519935754243


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500602398045315075



I always knew this was gonna happen.. But I thought they would bring them in during Summer..


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500471322568187905


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500471322568187905



About one division and half


----------



## Ashesh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500595466580508672


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500461868229533698


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500585896248287236

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## maverick1977

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500594809735684097
> Only thing Russia can do is commit mass war crimes. Their not even hiding it.



Is this becoming Fallujah 2.0, Aleppo 2.0 ?


----------



## Wood

Paul2 said:


> This is why I don't see this ending.
> 
> If Russian past track record is and indicator, they are ready to bury enemies their own bodies if needed.
> 
> I remember reading about Russian WW2 book. In Chechnya, they took grievous casualties, almost collapsed, but in the end won. Attrition warfare in its finest.
> 
> Putins idea is that he has more soldiers than Ukrainians have bullets.


Russians are not the defenders in this war. It is not the same as it was in WW2. Attrition will not be at their side because the Ukranians have endless motivation to defend their homes. Heck, even the foreign legion is 20k strong already!

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## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> The Chechens that came to fight in Ukraine were annihilated and retreated with their tails between their legs.


These words are as real as the news that Kadyrov's right hand man was killed in Ukraine

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500430551265599492

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500565829540323332


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500578553020272640


----------



## jamal18

Gas flow to Germany stopped?









Russia's Yamal-Europe westbound gas pipeline flows stopped on Friday


Westbound natural gas flows through the Yamal-Europe pipeline stopped on Friday while Gazprom's bids for additional transit capacity via Ukraine stand at high levels, data from pipeline operators shows.




www.reuters.com


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500346154189475842


----------



## Wood

WSJ News Exclusive | Russia Recruiting Syrians for Urban Combat in Ukraine, U.S. Officials Say


Moscow is looking for help from foreign fighters to take cities including Kyiv. The move points to a potential escalation of fighting in Ukraine.




www.wsj.com


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500310700010491905

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500609640593248257

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500611483759255555


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500461868229533698





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500464856566276100


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500452923729485824

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## The SC

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> About one division and half


It depends on countries some have divisions of 10 000, some 12 thousand.. and some more..

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## Elias MC

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500430551265599492

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## F-22Raptor

Wood said:


> .. not to mention that they are better motivated given that they are defending their home.
> 
> But Russia will eventually overrun them. Perhaps within the next week.




Not convinced they can take and occupy Kiev. Their still struggling in Kharkiv and smaller cities. Kiev is twice the size of Kharkiv

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500264314875359238


F-22Raptor said:


> Not convinced they can take and occupy Kiev. Their still struggling in Kharkiv and smaller cities. Kiev is twice the size of Kharkiv




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500260660235616260


----------



## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> Not convinced they can take and occupy Kiev. Their still struggling in Kharkiv and smaller cities. Kiev is twice the size of Kharkiv



To be honest I find funny the Russian videos where "they are giving humanitarian aid" to the populations in territories they occupy because they can't even provide enough supplies to their own men so they resort to looting.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500245537626406916


----------



## reflecthofgeismar

Vergennes said:


> To be honest I find funny the Russian videos where "they are giving humanitarian aid" to the populations in territories they occupy because they can't even provide enough supplies to their own men so they resort to looting.

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## Ashesh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500616085351063552

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500615147936698372


----------



## Ashesh

RescueRanger said:


> Is there proof to support this ?
> 
> 
> That’s baloney!



Hope so! 🤞

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> Not convinced they can take and occupy Kiev. Their still struggling in Kharkiv and smaller cities. Kiev is twice the size of Kharkiv



What do you think of Russian determination to potentially wage this war for years?


----------



## reflecthofgeismar

Paul2 said:


> What do you think of Russian determination to potentially wage this war for years?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500301348780199937

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## The SC

Elias MC said:


> View attachment 821507




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500519200565174274

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## Ashesh

Ashesh said:


> Hope so! 🤞



@RescueRanger from official Twitter Handle of Russian Government ! 😮


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500610297463291909

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500610879225794563


Paul2 said:


> What do you think of Russian determination to potentially wage this war for years?



How are they going to fund it with their economy going to hell? And potentially losing tens of thousands of soldiers. And terrible supply lines.

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## RescueRanger

Ashesh said:


> @RescueRanger from official Twitter Handle of Russian Government ! 😮
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500610297463291909


Brother- I fear this another Russian tactic. Too much white noise right now. But looks like the Russians may make a push for Kyiv.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500615633846865926

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500616693101568002


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500587978795757569
When it comes to U.S. energy production – and how we achieve energy security – it’s important to look at the facts. So here are 9 specifics..

1. Production is up, rising, and approaching records, yet Russia’s actions still leave our consumers vulnerable. It’s a reminder that real energy security comes from reducing our dependence on fossil fuels.

2. U.S. production of natural gas and oil is rising and approaching record levels: More natural gas than ever this year, more oil than ever next year, and, even with a global pandemic, more oil production this past year than during the previous administration’s first year.

3. The trendlines also point up. Oil production is up more than 700K b/d from Jan to Dec of last year, and is projected to be up more than 700K b/d from Jan to Dec this year, and to rise nearly 500K b/d to new record over the course of next year.

4. In fact, the U.S. was a net exporter of petroleum + petroleum products in each of the last two years, and will be a net exporter of natural gas for years to come.

5. We also know that producers have no shortage of opportunity, nor – after the high profits experienced last year – do they have any shortage of capital.

6. And on public lands and waters (and let’s not forget that nearly 90% of onshore oil production in the U.S. takes place on non-federal land): The industry holds more than 9,000 unused, approved permits to drill onshore.

7. Despite all this, even at this scale, domestic production has not insulated us from the price volatility of fossil fuels or the whims of those who control them, such as President Putin. Americans know that.

8. The only way to protect US over the long term is to become energy independent. That is why the President is so focused on deploying clean energy technologies that don’t require fossil fuels bought and sold on the global market, which will always be vulnerable to bad actors.

9. So as we navigate how to protect Americans and the global community from Russia’s further invasion of Ukraine, let’s remember to move past the talking points and ground this discussion in facts.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500596428673937409


----------



## Ashesh

RescueRanger said:


> Brother- I fear this another Russian tactic. Too much white noise right now. But looks like the Russians may make a push for Kyiv.


 Brother, I hope & pray that this is some Russian Tactic. If this becomes Nuclear War, it would be Catastrophe for the World.

It makes me sweep when I see images/videos of Ukrainians cities getting bombed, Civilians fleeing their homes, deaths. My Family experienced some of it during Sikh Genocide by then Government of India.

Praying sense prevails & this madness comes to end. 😞

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500619777261379585


----------



## Kraetoz

RescueRanger said:


> Brother- I fear this another Russian tactic. Too much white noise right now. But looks like the Russians may make a push for Kyiv.


How else would Zelenskyy get what he wants? no-fly zone and NATO coming in to his rescue. Seems pretty credible to me, no tactics involved.


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## khansaheeb

Ex-UK Spy master's views on Ukraine-Russian conflict:-


----------



## beast89

chechens cleaning out far right, clearly they live for this.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500616667424071682


----------



## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500623771111247872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500621860194693120



Putin "We don't target civilians",at the same time Russian AF dropping dumb and unguided bombs on Ukrainian cities

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## The SC

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500619777261379585




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500601681888776193


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500617902696939520

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500619975723261954

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## Vergennes

This war has at least shown us that ;

Small and light infantry groups equipped with manpads and anti tank weapons were decimating entire enemies columns and supply convoys. (the most important ones) You can't win a war without effective logistics following your armies' advance on the ground.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500399755024863234





Russians polluting Ukrainian land with their scrap


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500615633846865926
Saint Javelin at work

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## RescueRanger

Senior UK military officers are genuinely worried that some British troops - regulars or reservists - might try to join the battle in Ukraine and, in doing so, risk handing Russia a propaganda victory.

*Last week the Chief of Defence People, Lt Gen James Swift, sent out a message to the chain of command stressing that UK military personnel were "not authorised" to travel there. *

He said that if there was any suspicion that troops were trying to make their way to Ukraine then it should be reported immediately to the Service Police.

The message warned that if serving British military personnel went to fight in Ukraine then they were putting not only their lives in danger but they also risked giving "*the mistaken perception" to Russia that Britain had sent in troops to engage in hostilities.*

*Adm Sir Tony Radakin has now underlined that message, saying it would be "unlawful and unhelpful". *

At present the MoD does not believe there are any examples of full-time British military personnel going absent to fight in Ukraine. 

But it's harder for them to keep tabs on reservists who often also have another career.









Don't go to Ukraine, military boss tells Britons


The head of the UK's armed forces also rejects Ukraine's call for a no-fly zone, saying it will not help.



www.bbc.co.uk

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500607810198982656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500372125143560193


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500464110466891780

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500557487665299461

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## FairAndUnbiased

Paul2 said:


> This is why I don't see this ending.
> 
> If Russian past track record is and indicator, they are ready to bury enemies their own bodies if needed.
> 
> I remember reading about Russian WW2 book. In Chechnya, they took grievous casualties, almost collapsed, but in the end won. Attrition warfare in its finest.
> 
> Putins idea is that he has more soldiers than Ukrainians have bullets.
> 
> Even if they will be really beaten back to their staging grounds, they will be coming back until a complete defeat.
> 
> Ukraine has no power at the moment to really overrun Russians enough for them to consider the war to be lost.
> 
> And even if they will hit that "the war is lost moment," they will wrap up, and regroup in a few years with draft covering for all lost troops. Even without military hardware, Russia still has 140 million people, of which most are rather obedient, and well educated to man sophisticated weapons.
> 
> Unless Ukraine can really capture territory _from_ Russia, they cannot set a long term defensible line.
> 
> In other words, Putin will keep coming back matter what, unless Moscow falls.


lmao why do you keep posting when you're often proven to be factually wrong? Do you not get embarassed when you're proven wrong? You know about Grozny? *they leveled the city with artillery and bombers.*

Ukrainian forces outnumber Russian forces in theater 2:1 yet they're unable to repel an attack on their own soil. Are they winning?

They're supposedly "winning" yet are flooding reservoirs, releasing prisoners and handing out guns to children. Why do this if you're winning conventionally?

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500633549313089539

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500505524395253762

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500626383957114888


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500621819556073475

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500561890124222466

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498979402746630144

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500638658646446088


----------



## Ashesh

And the Drama has unfolded:









Russian forces ‘fire at Kharkiv facility housing nuclear reactor’


Ukraine accuses Putin’s forces of firing missiles at Kharkiv Institute of Physics and Technology




www.independent.co.uk

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500638480703143938

The US and NATO have armed Ukraine with 17,000 antitank weapons in the last 6 days

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## Type59

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500515997819801601



Are they javelins? 

Iran should offer big money for a complete system. Hezbollah would benefit from Iranian copies of Javelin's because Israel Trophy defence system does not protect from top attack weapons.

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## Tamerlane

NA71 said:


> Putin warns "West has no idea whats coming next'



I can try to guess what's coming next.

This war in Ukraine is only a side show. The real war is going to happen in the fields of economics and finance. The West has already declared total economic war on Russia with their sanctions. Russia, with Chinese help, is going to go for the jugular vein that keeps the West afloat: the US dollar. If a chunk of international payments switch to other currencies then the reserve status of the US$ may collapse. If that happens the results would be catastrophic.

Today the US doesn't produce much. Practically everything has to be imported. The US ability to conduct wars and pay for imports and run up trillions of debt depends on being able to print endless money. The federal debt has gone to over $30 trillion. If any other country in the world did that it would suffer such inflation that their currency would be reduced to junk status. Only the US can do it and get away with it is because the dollar is used for world trade.

If this Ukraine situation is not resolved, and Russia is pushed to the wall, which is what is happening now, then they'll retaliate with something that will cause maximum pain. They can cut off exports of oil, gas and precious minerals to the West, which will shut down a lot of industry. The end game will be to bring down Western stock markets and US dollar.

Collapse, or serious devaluation, of the dollar will cause huge price inflation and may result in civil unrest. It's not going to be pretty.

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## Wood

reflecthofgeismar said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500301348780199937


Seems like it may be fake. But I hope that the analysis holds true.


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## K_Bin_W

Type59 said:


> Are they javelins?
> 
> Iran should offer big money for a complete system. Hezbollah would benefit from Iranian copies of Javelin's because Israel Trophy defence system does not protect from top attack weapons.


I think Hizb already used Kornets in 2006 and successfully destroyed Kosher tanks.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500647181627408388


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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500638480703143938
> 
> The US and NATO have armed Ukraine with 17,000 antitank weapons in the last 6 days




The US has also been conducting cyber operations against Russian networks, and intercepting Russian comms.


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## Type59

K_Bin_W said:


> I think Hizb already used Kornets in 2006 and successfully destroyed Kosher tanks.


Israeli armour is equipped with anti missile systems, hence current atgm in Hezbollah's inventory are less effective.

Current anti-atgm systems can't defend against top attack weapons. Therefore Iran and Hezbollah need this system.


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## Microsoft

Tamerlane said:


> I can try to guess what's coming next.
> 
> This war in Ukraine is only a side show. The real war is going to happen in the fields of economics and finance. The West has already declared total economic war on Russia with their sanctions. Russia, with Chinese help, is going to go for the jugular vein that keeps the West afloat: the US dollar. If a chunk of international payments switch to other currencies then the reserve status of the US$ may collapse. If that happens the results would be catastrophic.
> 
> Today the US doesn't produce much. Practically everything has to be imported. The US ability to conduct wars and pay for imports and run up trillions of debt depends on being able to print endless money. The federal debt has gone to over $30 trillion. If any other country in the world did that it would suffer such inflation that their currency would be reduced to junk status. Only the US can do it and get away with it is because the dollar is used for world trade.
> 
> If this Ukraine situation is not resolved, and Russia is pushed to the wall, which is what is happening now, then they'll retaliate with something that will cause maximum pain. They can cut off exports of oil, gas and precious minerals to the West, which will shut down a lot of industry. The end game will be to bring down Western stock markets and US dollar.
> 
> Collapse, or serious devaluation, of the dollar will cause huge price inflation and may result in civil unrest. It's not going to be pretty.



A lot of this may be true especially considering energy prices (and everything else) in the US are already high. But the USA will probably just sacrifice Europe to keep supremacy. NATO is a money pit too that's why Trump wanted to make the other countries more and they pulled out of Afghanistan before telling NATO under Biden. Europe is starting to realize this and that includes Russia too.

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## CrazyZ

Goritoes said:


> If i go by this thread, then no Ukrainian soldier died in this conflict, Russians lost 800,000 billion soldiers already, and they are on full retreat, No Ukrainians are racists towards other races and west is teaching them how to make Molotov's.


And the whole Russian AF was shot down by 1 Mig 29 over Kiev......yet at the same time Ukraine is desperate for for more AC and SAMs.....something is not right with this picture.

For me I will wait one month before I can gauge who is winning or losing. At this point the Russians are making steady gains against stiff resistance. I expect the Russians to encircle and destroy large amounts of Ukrainian forces over the next weeks. Major urban areas will be turned to rubble.

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## Avicenna

I never thought I would say this but.....I miss Trump.

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## jhungary

Meengla said:


> Yes.
> People are still living in the pre 1980s time when the old mighty Soviet Union sent massive amount of troops here and there and did various proxy wars and truly intrepid move like the Cuban Missile crisis. Those days ended a LONG way ago with suckers like Gorbachev and Yeltsin.
> 
> The Russia of today is a* joke with nukes to blackmail the world. A has been, sick power. * This is no 'bear' to poke as a lot of people here saying---and I had suspected that many years before this war. Russia is a spent force with nukes to blow up the world as *its biggest asset*. It's sad for me so say this but it is what it is.
> PS. Not that I have changed my overall reading of this conflict, as mentioned many times above.


Well, most Russian people blame Putin for that.

Putin over the year hollowed out Russian economy and put it in his own pocket. I watched a video a few months ago on Youtube, a Russian vet talk about how much the government neglect the Military, Parts are either manufactured either substandard or do not have any parts at all. And all the defence contract were offered to Putin and his inner circle of Oligarch.

Yeltsin could have made a different, but then Putin is the person who drag Russia down.....

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## Avicenna

jhungary said:


> Well, most Russian people blame Putin for that.
> 
> Putin over the year hollowed out Russian economy and put it in his own pocket. I watched a video a few months ago on Youtube, a Russian vet talk about how much the government neglect the Military, Parts are either manufactured either substandard or do not have any parts at all. And all the defence contract were offered to Putin and his inner circle of Oligarch.
> 
> Yeltsin could have made a different, but then Putin is the person who drag Russia down.....



LOL what a take!

Yeltsin was better for Russia than Putin?

Really?

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## 8888888888888

Video done by a military vet, who actually knows about Russian tactics. It seems to be going well for Russia.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500600030968877058

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500600031879086080


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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> Keep laughing, whereas the saner people in Europe and the world are holding their breathe and praying that no incident happens on those nuclear power plants, let alone things getting out of control where nukes start flying around.
> 
> Yes, keep laughing. This is what keyboard smashers normally do. Whereas those living in or around war zones are praying for the war to end instead of getting into some d* measure contest.
> 
> Talk talk talk... and more talk to add fuel to fire ... typical treat of anglo-saxon bullies. Chinese FM is spot on!
> 
> I truly wish the Europe gets its act together and gets rid of these anglo-saxon hyenas!


Well, the west is not the one that threaten the world with nuke 3 times over the last week.

And as I said, I don't really care about anyone suffering, and you also should stop pretending you do, because it's quite obvious you don't care about the Ukrainian.

I mean, I am just pointing out your hypocracy

Just saying, as I said, don't quote me again.


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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500638480703143938
> 
> The US and NATO have armed Ukraine with 17,000 antitank weapons in the last 6 days




Article also confirms the giant stalled Russian convoy has been hit by Javelins and drone strikes



jhungary said:


> Well, the west is not the one that threaten the world with nuke 3 times over the last week.
> 
> And as I said, I don't really care about anyone suffering, and you also should stop pretending you do, because it's quite obvious you don't care about the Ukrainian.
> 
> I mean, I am just pointing out your hypocracy
> 
> Just saying, as I said, don't quote me again.




Thoughts on 17,000 anti tank missiles being delivered to Ukraine in last 6 days?


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## jhungary

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Wait is TikTok not China controlled?


no, byte dance is

Trump threaten to take Tiktok down until they severer ties with China, Tiktok is based in the US.



F-22Raptor said:


> Article also confirms the giant stalled Russian convoy has been hit by Javelins and drone strikes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thoughts on 17,000 anti tank missiles being delivered to Ukraine in last 6 days?


More missile than Russia have tank. 

This is going to be bad for the Ruskie.

Especially seeing how they use their armour, there are many places Ukrainian can mount an Ambush.



Avicenna said:


> LOL what a take!
> 
> Yeltsin was better for Russia than Putin?
> 
> Really?


Both Corrupted to the core, at least Yeltsin did not neglect his own country.

Ask any Russian, you will know that majority of Russia prefer Yeltsin than Putin. You have no idea how much Putin line his pocket with Oil and Gas expansion money. There is an Russian saying (at least it was a saying 6 years ago when i visited Russia) 

"Oil and Gas everywhere but in the pump." 

There are actually a fuel crisis in Russia even tho Russia is second biggest Oil Production company. That really said a lot.

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## CrazyZ

jhungary said:


> no, byte dance is
> 
> Trump threaten to take Tiktok down until they severer ties with China, Tiktok is based in the US.
> 
> 
> More missile than Russia have tank.
> 
> This is going to be bad for the Ruskie.
> 
> Especially seeing how they use their armour, there are many places Ukrainian can mount an Ambush.
> 
> 
> Both Corrupted to the core, at least Yeltsin did not neglect his own country.
> 
> Ask any Russian, you will know that majority of Russia prefer Yeltsin than Putin. You have no idea how much Putin line his pocket with Oil and Gas expansion money. There is an Russian saying (at least it was a saying 6 years ago when i visited Russia)
> 
> "Oil and Gas everywhere but in the pump."
> 
> There are actually a fuel crisis in Russia even tho Russia is second biggest Oil Production company. That really said a lot.


My sense is the Russians will change tactics. They will relay on artillery and airstrikes more...which Javelins are not effective against. 1000's of Javelins will end in Russian hands. Why do you think Zalensky wants a no fly zone so bad.

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## Kraetoz

jhungary said:


> *Well, the west is not the one that threaten the world with nuke 3 times over the last week.*
> 
> And as I said, I don't really care about anyone suffering, and you also should stop pretending you do, because it's quite obvious you don't care about the Ukrainian.
> 
> I mean, I am just pointing out your hypocracy
> 
> Just saying, as I said, don't quote me again.



Quite right you are, West is not the one that threaten the world with nukes, West remains the only one to have actually used nukes.

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## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> Tiktok is based in the US.


Who told you this? Tiktok is just different name of Douyin for foreign market, they are the same company.

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## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> Who told you this?


Tiktok website

Their headquarter is in Santa Monica Blvd, CA, USA


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500613699417034756

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## jhungary

Kraetoz said:


> Quite right you are, West is not the one that threaten the world with nukes, West remains the only one to have actually used nukes.


Every country have nuke had used nuke, US is the only country to have used nuke in war.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500609458334019586


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## jhungary

CrazyZ said:


> My sense is the Russians will change tactics. They will relay on artillery and airstrikes more...which Javelins are not effective against. 1000's of Javelins will end in Russian hands. Why do you think Zalensky wants a no fly zone so bad.


Well, airstrike can only work up to a point, it does not work on a hunker down enemy, otherwise US would have won every battle in Vietnam with their superior air firepower. And said superior is still yet to achieve in Ukraine by the way.

There are talks that US and NATO are going to provide more advance Anti-Air system and some SPG to Ukraine. 

It didn't alter the result much for the conventional fight, but it will draw blood on the Russian.


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## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> Tiktok website
> 
> Their headquarter is in Santa Monica Blvd, CA, USA


It's more like a branch office operating with a different name, it's still Chinese.

TikTok, known in China as Douyin (Chinese: 抖音; pinyin: Dǒuyīn), is a video-focused social networking service *owned by Chinese company ByteDance Ltd*

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## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> It's more like a branch office operating with a different name, it's still Chinese.
> 
> TikTok, known in China as Douyin (Chinese: 抖音; pinyin: Dǒuyīn), is a video-focused social networking service *owned by Chinese company ByteDance Ltd*


Dude, they separated, they are headquartered in San Fransico. It is not a branch.

If you remember Trump threaten to put Tiktok out of service in 2018 or 2017, and they separated the apps and server from China.

Tiktok is like any Chinese Own US company now.....like AMC Theatre chain or Waldof Astoria hotel.









TikTok CSO says app's services are separate from ByteDance's Chinese operations


He also took the time to clarify some of the big concerns about its security



www.datacenterdynamics.com


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## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> Dude, they separated,


They are not, tik tok is still owned by China, it's part of that company's operation.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500626474616901633


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## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> They are not, tik tok is still owned by China, it's part of that company's operation.


Dude, own by China does not make it a branch.

As said in the previous article, Tik Tok operation are *COMPLETELY* separated to ByteDance, that is the requirement for them to operate in the US. Trump want it sold but they made that deal.

Dude, where have you been, this was a very big news some years ago....


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## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> Dude, own by China does not make it a branch.
> 
> As said in the previous article, Tik Tok operation are *COMPLETELY* separated to ByteDance, that is the requirement for them to operate in the US. Trump want it sold but they made that deal.
> 
> Dude, where have you been, this is a very big news....


Simple question, who owns Tik Tok?


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## The SC

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500616693101568002


Why are they the same camouflage!?


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## K_Bin_W

beijingwalker said:


> Simple question, who owns Tik Tok?


China


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## Kraetoz

jhungary said:


> Dude, they separated, they are headquartered in San Fransico. It is not a branch.
> 
> If you remember Trump threaten to put Tiktok out of service in 2018 or 2017, and they separated the apps and server from China.
> 
> Tiktok is like any Chinese Own US company now.....like AMC Theatre chain or Waldof Astoria hotel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TikTok CSO says app's services are separate from ByteDance's Chinese operations
> 
> 
> He also took the time to clarify some of the big concerns about its security
> 
> 
> 
> www.datacenterdynamics.com











India bans 59 Chinese apps including TikTok, UC Browser and others


The govt said the apps are prejudicial to sovereignty and integrity of India, defence of India, security of state and public order




www.google.com






India recently banned many *Chinese* apps and TikTok was on top of the list.


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## beijingwalker

US still thinks Tik tok is a security risk to US








U.S. Moving—Some Say Too Slowly—to Address TikTok Security Risk


The Commerce Department has proposed a rule that could effectively bar foreign apps deemed unacceptable security threats. Some lawmakers including Sen. Marco Rubio say the White House is taking timid steps on addressing the issue.




www.wsj.com


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## Meengla

Avicenna said:


> LOL what a take!
> 
> Yeltsin was better for Russia than Putin?
> 
> Really?



Nothing could beat Yeltsin in depravity and lack of foresight for a major country's leader. 

While Russia was a spent force in the early 1990s, people like Yeltsin could have tried to pull the country together. Instead, the true 'oligarchs' as we are hearing about now around Putin, were far more powerful and corrupt than they are around Putin. Yeltsin was a darling of the West. I cannot forget the images of him in front of some tanks waiving Russian flag on CNN in front of a small crowd which was made out to be giant crowd. People like Gorbachev and Yeltsin are the 'feel good' suckers, devoid of real politic. Putin, for all his fault--a true dictator and a true anachronistic person--are sometimes the last breath of independence for dying powers. 

The Western media has, over decades, learned the art of condensing their enemies to some bite-sizes propaganda bites: 'Hitler's Henchmen', 'Putin's Oligarchs' 'Iranian Mullahs', 'Venezuela Communists' .... Makes it easy for the masses to digest, don't it. Even the Germans and the French, when they tried to oppose the now-apparently-lost war against Iraq in 2003 were called 'the Hans' and the 'Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys' respectively. The condemnation is focused, powerful, well funded, and convincing. Many people would rather get the bite-size views of the 'news' and go on with their daily lives then to devote brain cells to figuring out what's happening. BUT a sad observation is that people who distrust their govts over domestic policies just on the whole ignore bombing off other countries.

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## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> Simple question, who owns Tik Tok?


China.

Now my turn, where's Tiktok HQ located?



Kraetoz said:


> India bans 59 Chinese apps including TikTok, UC Browser and others
> 
> 
> The govt said the apps are prejudicial to sovereignty and integrity of India, defence of India, security of state and public order
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India recently banned many *Chinese* apps and TikTok was on top of the list.


Tiktok is owned by Chinese (as in a Chinese company, not the country)

But TikTok operation are separated with ByteDance (the Chinese company that own it) as per FCC requirement. They cannot have the same headquarter, same server, same group of people in charge of daily operation.

For example

TikTok CEO is Vanessa Pappas
ByteDance CEO is Zhang Yiming


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## tower9

jhungary said:


> Well, most Russian people blame Putin for that.
> 
> Putin over the year hollowed out Russian economy and put it in his own pocket. I watched a video a few months ago on Youtube, a Russian vet talk about how much the government neglect the Military, Parts are either manufactured either substandard or do not have any parts at all. And all the defence contract were offered to Putin and his inner circle of Oligarch.
> 
> Yeltsin could have made a different, but then Putin is the person who drag Russia down.....


Yes, Yeltsin the CIA agent was the great Russian savior. 

Alright I’m just going to stop reading your posts moving forward if that’s how you perceive reality.

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## jhungary

tower9 said:


> Yes, Yeltsin the CIA agent was the great Russian savior.
> 
> Alright I’m just going to stop reading your posts moving forward if that’s how you perceive reality.


I never said Yeltsin is good, I said people prefer Yeltsin than Putin. They are both shit, I will say this. 

But at lease when Yeltsin is in charge Russian median earning is around 1400 USD, with Putin In charge, that drop to 827. And 17 oligarch control 34% of Russian economy.

Put things in a little prespective, the median earning for an adult Indian is 1100 USD.

You don't have to believe me, ask any Russian if you want.


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## tower9

jhungary said:


> I never said Yeltsin is good, I said people prefer Yeltsin than Putin. They are both shit, I will say this.
> 
> But at lease when Yeltsin is in charge Russian median earning is around 1400 USD, with Putin In charge, that drop to 827. And 17 oligarch control 34% of Russian economy.
> 
> Put things in a little prespective, the median earning for an adult Indian is 1100 USD.
> 
> You don't have to believe me, ask any Russian if you want.


Considering that the 90s are remembered as a nightmare by most Russians, I doubt the vast majority would prefer yeltsin over Putin.

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## Tamerlane

*Day 11 – Putin’s last warning before beginning of the 2nd phase of the operation*

*The west is clearly determined to heroically fight Russia down to the last Ukrainian.* Russia wants to stop this operation as soon as possible, but only after her double goals of 1) disarmament and 2) denazification are achieved.

Right now the big question is Kiev. It’s a big city with plenty of civilians and probably 30-50 thousand combatants of all different kinds (VSU, SBU, Volkssturm, deathsquads, looters, etc.). The logical solution would be to offer the combatants (and the civilians) corridors to exit the city, but the West can’t have that.

Now if the Ukies won’t vacate Kiev, then some rather serious fighting will take place inside the city and *clearing the city from the Nazis will demand the involvement of a major Russian force.* It appears that these forces are now in their staging areas all around the city (except for the south).

Russia was willing, when forced, to intervene in the Ukraine. *If forced, Russia will take on any country, including any NATO member country, which will assist the Ukrainians militarily.* If forced, Russia will even fight all of NATO and the USA together and, if forced, she will use all her weapons, including nuclear ones. And if that means that the entire planet is nuked then, as Putin said, “we have no need for a planet without Russia”. All this is to say that Russia is not bluffing, Putin will not back down and that there is *no price which Russia would not be willing to pay to prevail in this existential war.*

Russia will not stop until her existence is made safe again.

What about the West?

*I believe that the West has a “smartass policy”: we do fight down the the last Ukie, and we get as many Steppe Niggers and Snow Niggers to kill each other, but then we stop just short of nuclear war with Russia.

Question: do you trust the geniuses in power in the West to successfully walk this tightrope?*

I sure don’t.

Reach your own conclusions.

Andrei






Day 11 – Putin’s last warning before beginning of the 2nd phase of the operation | The Vineyard of the Saker


A bird's eye view of the vineyard




thesaker.is

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## jhungary

tower9 said:


> Considering that the 90s are remembered as a nightmare by most Russians, I doubt the vast majority would prefer yeltsin over Putin.


Well, 90s it not at all that bad for most Russian sure, he was blamed for the corruption and the breaking up of Soviet Union, and Putin is not exactly the best leader to the people either. Just look at why Putin want to take Crimea in 2014? Without that, his popularity would have tanked

It's like everyone think GW Bush is shit back in early 2000, but 1 term of Trump, Bush is now seen as a saint by some, depends on your political affiliation

Or like how the Hong Konger want to revert to British control after China start clamping down. Life under British Control is not at all rosy, in fact, they probably did more bad stuff than China ever could (Not so sure about it now) All these are relativity.

As I said, not sure if you know, Russia life even before Putin started this is not rosy either.


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## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> You obviously have lived in a dictatorship too long and have lost any concept of what it is like to live in a democracy.
> 
> Sure , some times protesters get arrested when they get violent , some times police get out of line.
> 
> But the basic right to demonstrate and voice your opinion is fundamental yo any democracy. Without it it cant be called a democracy.
> 
> 
> ~


the protesters get arrested for one and half year and they get violent when they get bitten by police. and you seems for a long time only heard of approved news by big media



gambit said:


> Myth...??? Yeah...
> 
> To start, you need aircrafts *DESIGNED* for partially finished runways. The preferred phrase is 'improvised runway'. But even if the aircraft can use improvised runway, there is still a need to defend, maintain, and repair the normal runway system as much as possible.
> 
> Now, here is something for you to consider...
> 
> Aircraft load can, not always, be affected by improvised runway. The more 'improvised' the runway, you have two choices: Either you take longer for TO/L or you reduce your combat load to use the same length as the normal runway. The improvised runway do not have the same load rating, surface constant, traction value, and several other factors. You think am making this up?
> 
> Here is just *ONE* examples of many docs regarding runways...
> 
> 
> 
> https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/ARN20783_TC_3-04x16_FINAL_WEB.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> Why did I used a US Army doc? Because the Army have a lot of experience in living/working with improvised runways. Use keyword 'soil' for example. You will see issues such as load rating, jet blasts because often the Army has to make runways for AF cargo jets. There is a section in there for C-130 and C-17 operations.
> 
> The following are standard design requirements for *most airfield construction or restoration* missions:​​Design of drainage system structure.​Geometric design of RWY, TWYs, and hardstands (including overruns, blast areas, and turnarounds).​Selection of soils found in cuts and use of soil to improve subgrade.​Compaction or stabilization requirements of the subgrade.​Determination of type and thickness of the base and surface courses.​Selection of grade to minimize earthwork while still meeting specifications.​Design of access and service roads.​Design of ammunition and petroleum, oils, and lubricants (POL) storage areas, NAVAIDs; hardstands, maintenance and warm up aprons, corrosion control facilities, control towers, airfield lighting, and other facilities​
> See the highlighted: construction or restoration.
> 
> Restoration from what? Maybe the improvised runway was also damaged in the attack. Or maybe harsh weather washed off some surface soil. Or maybe freezing temperature made the improvised runway too slick to be used.
> 
> Table 4-1. Army airfield and heliport classes Class Definition (controlling aircraft weights reflect operational weight)​​I Heliports/pads with aircraft 25,000 lbs. (11,340 kgs) or less. Controlling aircraft (UH-60)-16,300 lbs. (7,395 kgs).​​II Heliports/pads with aircraft over 25,000 lbs. (11,340 kgs). Controlling aircraft (CH-47)-50,000 lbs. (22,680 kgs).​​III Airfield with class A runways. Controlling aircraft (combination of C-23 aircraft-24,600 lbs. (11,200 kgs) and a CH-47 aircraft at 50,000 lbs. (22,680 kgs). Class A runways are primarily used for small aircraft (C-12 and C-23).​​IV Airfields w/class B runways. The controlling aircraft is a C-130 aircraft at 155,000 lbs. (70,310 kgs) operational weight or a C-17 aircraft at 580,000 lbs. (263,100 kgs) operational weight. Class B runways are primarily used for high performance and large heavy aircraft (C-130, C-17, and C-141).​​V Heliports/pads supporting Army assault training missions. Controlling aircraft (CH-47)-50,000 lbs. (22,680 kgs).​​VI Assault landing zones for operations supporting Army training missions that have semi-prepared or paved landing surfaces. Controlling aircraft (C-130-155,000 lbs. [70,310 kgs] or C-17-580,000 lbs. [263,100 kgs]). Legend: lbs= pounds, kgs= kilograms​​Do you see those tonnage ratings for different aircrafts? Even smaller and lighters fighters, like my F-16, are affected.
> 
> 5-36. Weather, terrain, RWY conditions, amount of available equipment and remaining fuel, and crash location are some factors that govern placing equipment at an aircraft's crash operation. Prefire plans can only cover general placement procedures and should allow for flexibility, based on the situation. *Other factors to consider include—*​​Aircraft's landing speed.​Wind direction and speed.​Aircraft's stopping distance.​
> Do you see the highlighted above?
> 
> The literature on runways and airfields are enormous, even if dealing with austere airfields and improvised runways. Everything in that Army doc are applicable to the AF in either making improvised runways to supplement the main system, or in deploying to austere airfields with improvised runways. I may have no choice but to sortie with reduced loads because the improvised runway cannot handle the full load.
> 
> People like you who have no experience looks at a picture and thinks they know everything about the subject. Runway denial is a myth? I hope the entire Iranian military leadership is filled with people like you.


I'm sure the heaviest Mig-29 is way lighter than Il-76


----------



## khansaheeb

Brave Ukraine being given a hammering, it is a one sided battle as most weapons they are using are Russian and Russians know their strengths, weaknesses and limitations.






Military Watch Magazine







militarywatchmagazine.com




Four Su-27 Flankers Shot Down Over Western Ukraine in March 5 Battle: Which Russian Asset Could Have Done It?​
March-5th-2022






Russian Su-35 Launches R-37M: UkAF Su-27

On the evening of March 5 it was reported that the Ukrainian Air Force had taken unprecedented losses in air to air engagements, with Russian ground based air defences shooting down an Mi-8 helicopter, Su-25 attack jet and Bayraktar drone while four of Ukraine’s top fighters, the elite Su-27 Flankers, were lost near the city of Zhytomir in the country’s western regions. It was implied that the Su-27s were shot down by Russian aircraft, although this remains uncertain. The engagements of March 5 represent a significant escalation of the air war between Russia and Ukraine, with the former having refrained from making extensive use of its air force since initiating a campaign in Ukraine on February 24. The engagement marks the first confirmed loss of a Su-27 in air to air combat, which was widely considered the most capable fighter fielded by any air force during the Cold War era and from 1985 had formed the elite of the Soviet Air Force. While it remains uncertain which Russian assets were responsible for shooting down the fighters, this can be speculated based on where the engagement took place and the forces Russia has available.






Ukrainian Air Force Su-27 Flanker Heavyweight Fighter

Having taken significant losses, including to friendly fire and to Russian missile strikes on its airfields, the Ukrainian Air Force has increasingly relegated its relatively small fighter fleet to patrolling the county’s western regions. An engagement over Zhytomir, where Russian ground units are not known to be operating, was thus likely initiated by the Russian Air Force as an escalation of the air campaign, with its demonstration of overwhelming superiority potentially grounding the Ukrainian fleet. The large majority of Russian fighters are capable of comfortably prevailing in an air to air engagement with Ukrainian Su-27s, as although the fighter had an elite status when it was first commissioned Ukraine has invested very little in modernising the airframes since the Soviet era leaving them effectively obsolete. Russia’s Su-35 air superiority fighter, its more well balanced Su-30SM multirole fighter, and Su-34 strike fighter, would all potentially be capable, as would its Su-27SM2/3 air superiority fighters which are Su-27s with weaponry, avionics and sensors modernised to Su-35 standards in the 2010s. Nevertheless, it is likely that the Su-35 would have been chosen to contest air superiority against the Ukrainian jets for a number of reasons. 






Russian Air Force Su-35 and Su-34 Fighters

Ukrainian Su-27s, although old and flown by pilots who enjoy few hours of flight training, are still potentially dangerous and represent one of the more capable fighters deployed by an Eastern European country. The Su-35, which enjoys the largest performance advantage over them as Russia’s prime air superiority fighter, would thus be the most likely fighter to be deployed to tackle them and more comfortably ensure superiority. The fact that Russia's most experienced pilots are thought to be assigned to the aircraft is another notable factor. Su-35s are deployed in significant numbers under Russia’s Western Military District, and some were even redeployed from the country’s Far Eastern regions to Baranovichi Airfield in Belarus in January which would have been well positioned to operate over Zhytomir from the north. The Su-35 entered service from 2014, and is based on Su-27’s airframe but with under a third of the radar cross section, new AL-41 engines putting out 17 percent more power, an Irbis-E radar with 500 percent the detection range, and strong improvements in all areas of performance ranging from electronic warfare and data links to armaments and endurance. 






K-77M Missiles Carried by Su-57 Fighter

Although Russia fields newer fighters than the Su-35 which are also well optimised for air to air combat, namely the Su-30SM2 which pairs the Su-30SM’s airframe with the Su-35’s engines, and the Su-57 next generation fighter, the former has only been in service for a number of weeks while the latter is not considered fully combat ready. Thus neither are ideal for such operations. If Russia did indeed deploy Su-35s, it is likely they relied on R-77-1 active radar guided missiles with an estimated 110km engagement range which entered service from around 2015. The missiles are far from the most capable for long range engagements in Russian service, those being the K-77M and R-37M, although neither of these have been widely deployed by Su-35 units meaning reliance on the older R-77 remains likely. With Ukraine lacking any active radar guided air to air missiles whatsoever, and its ageing R-27 missiles having Soviet era electronic warfare countermeasures, the R-77-1 would likely be sufficient to comfortably secure superiority. Another possibility remains that, although it was implied otherwise, the Su-27s were shot down by Russian ground based air defence systems. No long range systems have been observed in Ukraine capable of neutralising targets near Zhytomir from current Russian positions, however, indicating that the four jets from the Ukrainian elite were likely brought down from the air.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500684896746065922


----------



## Wood

4 batteries of S300 from NATO countries could also be moved to Ukraine. US seems to be negotiating with countries for that. Not sure if they can be protected from Russian anti radiation missiles this time?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500667051861368834


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500687635861450752


----------



## Patriot forever

I have to give the West the media victory hands down..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500563055301869573
Put goebbels to shame, didn't even spare this forum. 😂

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## Microsoft

Patriot forever said:


> I have to give the West the media victory hands down..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500563055301869573
> 😂


lmao this can't be real. What channel is this?

Edit: It's fake. The original is from a protest in Austria Feb 4, 2022

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## sammuel

Tamerlane said:


> If forced, Russia will even fight all of NATO and the USA together and, if forced, she will use all her weapons, including nuclear ones. And if that means that the entire planet is nuked then, as Putin said, “we have no need for a planet without Russia”.



Putin nuclear " insinuations " are irresponsible madness.

When he makes them , it is not just a threat to the west but to every one this forum. I take it none of us here wishes to live in a nuclear wasteland.


~


----------



## Clutch

thetutle said:


> Its nice that each of them has their own NLAW. So they don't have at argue about who has one and who doesn't.


.


Tamerlane said:


> I can try to guess what's coming next.
> 
> This war in Ukraine is only a side show. The real war is going to happen in the fields of economics and finance. The West has already declared total economic war on Russia with their sanctions. Russia, with Chinese help, is going to go for the jugular vein that keeps the West afloat: the US dollar. If a chunk of international payments switch to other currencies then the reserve status of the US$ may collapse. If that happens the results would be catastrophic.
> 
> Today the US doesn't produce much. Practically everything has to be imported. The US ability to conduct wars and pay for imports and run up trillions of debt depends on being able to print endless money. The federal debt has gone to over $30 trillion. If any other country in the world did that it would suffer such inflation that their currency would be reduced to junk status. Only the US can do it and get away with it is because the dollar is used for world trade.
> 
> If this Ukraine situation is not resolved, and Russia is pushed to the wall, which is what is happening now, then they'll retaliate with something that will cause maximum pain. They can cut off exports of oil, gas and precious minerals to the West, which will shut down a lot of industry. The end game will be to bring down Western stock markets and US dollar.
> 
> Collapse, or serious devaluation, of the dollar will cause huge price inflation and may result in civil unrest. It's not going to be pretty.



Interesting... 
However, I doubt China is willing to go that far to support Russia in a total economic war with the West. China has too much to lose and not much to gain by doing so.... Russia has no choice.


----------



## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> Is this a joke ? Survival ? Have you any idea how much power Russia have ?
> 
> This is not a war of survival but a war of ego !
> 
> One look at this table tells you what it is all about :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> does this seem normal to you ?
> 
> 
> ~


it seems corona to me



jhungary said:


> Somehow I read that tweet as *"No Slav are allowed in Paradise"............*





RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500502688345346052
> Ignoring the political correctness / BLm stuff that’s a sign with a powerful message.


as far as I'm aware the religion so misrepresented these day that many people think you are not allowed in Heaven unless you are a Slave

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## Patriot forever

Microsoft said:


> lmao this can't be real. What channel is this?
> 
> Edit: It's fake. The original is from a protest in Austria Feb 4, 2022



I know 😂

The audio dubbed over the video is real. It's symbolic of one sided western point of view coverage of this war and their claims. The edit is spot on.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> you should know I wear woman stocking and uses tampon in Iraq........
> 
> Those things are necessity over there. Almost everyone (men and women) do that.....


well women stocking is good in cold winter , but I here they also wear it to reduce bleeding in case of injury , wonder if it do help in such case at all , all the injured women i treated were bleeding as hell , till we do something about their injuries and I work at a hospital that is designated as trauma center

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## Clutch

Paul2 said:


> This is why I don't see this ending.
> 
> If Russian past track record is and indicator, they are ready to bury enemies their own bodies if needed.
> 
> I remember reading about Russian WW2 book. In Chechnya, they took grievous casualties, almost collapsed, but in the end won. Attrition warfare in its finest.
> 
> Putins idea is that he has more soldiers than Ukrainians have bullets.
> 
> Even if they will be really beaten back to their staging grounds, they will be coming back until a complete defeat.
> 
> Ukraine has no power at the moment to really overrun Russians enough for them to consider the war to be lost.
> 
> And even if they will hit that "the war is lost moment," they will wrap up, and regroup in a few years with draft covering for all lost troops. Even without military hardware, Russia still has 140 million people, of which most are rather obedient, and well educated to man sophisticated weapons.
> 
> Unless Ukraine can really capture territory _from_ Russia, they cannot set a long term defensible line.
> 
> In other words, Putin will keep coming back matter what, unless Moscow falls.



A CIA sponsored coup to take out Putin will put a end to the Russian assault right away....


----------



## Tamerlane

sammuel said:


> Putin nuclear " insinuations " are irresponsible madness.
> 
> When he makes them , it is not just a threat to the west but to every one this forum. I take it none of us here wishes to live in a nuclear wasteland.
> 
> 
> ~



In case of a nuclear exchange it would be better to die a quick death rather than to live in a post-apocalyptic wasteland. All the merrier if there's something nice on the other side. Therefore I wish for everyone a quick and painless transition.

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## Vapnope

Has Russia utilized P-800 Oniks yet?


----------



## Clutch

Genghis khan1 said:


> Plot twist: Jew Zelenky is baiting Russians to kill all the NeoNazis in Ukraine.



It's old news now.... The modern day Nazis new enemy is Muslims and the Jews are their allies.

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## Wood

Ukraine crisis: Russian oil companies offer big discounts to India


Bankers said India should be extremely cautious before opening up trade with Russia amid sanctions as it should not be seen as funding Russian invasion of Ukraine.




wap.business-standard.com


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500693991083360258

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500700634550571008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500701314451484676

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500701698809028609

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500708050667200516

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500710119054663681

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## sammuel

Tamerlane said:


> All the merrier if there's something nice on the other side. Therefore I wish for everyone a quick and painless transition.



I guess we will know when we get there.

But i am with you on this , would not want to stay in the world also if something like this happens.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500711700470931456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500712752553381890


----------



## sammuel

Hack-Hook said:


> it seems corona to me



spot the differences .

Zalenski with his minister of defense , Putin with his . . .

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## Vapnope

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500711700470931456
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500712752553381890


Soldiers will commit war crimes due to desperation and human suffering factor would rise exponentially. The rambo syndrome is not gonna help anyone.

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## Patriot forever

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497602531467403270






Explaining the war..



Vapnope said:


> Soldiers will commit war crimes due to desperation and human suffering factor would rise exponentially. The rambo syndrome is not gonna help anyone.



The war was in the making for a along time. These are not just random mercenaries but were prepared for this in advance.


----------



## 8888888888888

sammuel said:


> spot the differences .
> 
> Zalenski with his minister of defense , Putin with his . . .


Probably due to covid, Putin got it before.


----------



## That Guy

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500711700470931456
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500712752553381890


Lol, nice self promotion.


----------



## Tamerlane

Xerxes22 said:


> BTW you are named after a psychpathic butcher and the second most prolific serial rapist after Genghis Khan.



Not to mention pyramids of skulls.

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## Xerxes22

Tamerlane said:


> Not to mention pyramids of skulls.





Tamerlane said:


> Not to mention pyramids of skulls.


Sorry brother,, didn't notice you called the Ukrainians Nazis. I love you. Hail Tamerlane

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## arjunk

sammuel said:


> Is this a joke ? Survival ? Have you any idea how much power Russia have ?
> 
> This is not a war of survival but a war of ego !
> 
> One look at this table tells you what it is all about :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> does this seem normal to you ?
> 
> 
> ~


It's social distancing for the outbreak of nerve gas


----------



## thetutle

Paul2 said:


> And even if they will hit that "the war is lost moment," they will wrap up, and regroup in a few years with draft covering for all lost troops. Even without military hardware, Russia still has 140 million people, of which most are rather obedient, and well educated to man sophisticated weapons.
> 
> Unless Ukraine can really capture territory _from_ Russia, they cannot set a long term defensible line.
> 
> In other words, Putin will keep coming back matter what, unless Moscow falls.


I think this is an acceptable outcome. Let them regroup and start conscripting civvies. Ukraine will be retrained and resupplied and do it over and over until someone gives up. 

The end outcome is a Russia that is not a threat to anyone and the economy the size of north korea.

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## sammuel

~

From bombing Syrians to bombing Ukrainian. ,Russian pilot taken prisoner :
















~


----------



## Enigma SIG

thetutle said:


> I think this is an acceptable outcome. Let them regroup and start conscripting civvies. Ukraine will be retrained and resupplied and do it over and over until someone gives up.
> 
> The end outcome is a Russia that is not a threat to anyone and the economy the size of north korea.


Sounds good from Australia. Not so good when the average Ukrainian is on the receiving end.

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## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> Article also confirms the giant stalled Russian convoy has been hit by Javelins and drone strikes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thoughts on 17,000 anti tank missiles being delivered to Ukraine in last 6 days?



How many are fire and forget? overall a good start. hopefully it lasts till the end of the month.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

thetutle said:


> I think this is an acceptable outcome. Let them regroup and start conscripting civvies. Ukraine will be retrained and resupplied and do it over and over until someone gives up.
> 
> The end outcome is a Russia that is not a threat to anyone and the economy the size of north korea.


you do realize that Ukraine is outnumbering Russia 400k to 200k yet unable to stop the shelling of their major population centers? that's not what winning looks like.

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## LeGenD

CrazyZ said:


> And the whole Russian AF was shot down by 1 Mig 29 over Kiev......yet at the same time Ukraine is desperate for for more AC and SAMs.....something is not right with this picture.
> 
> For me I will wait one month before I can gauge who is winning or losing. At this point the Russians are making steady gains against stiff resistance. I expect the Russians to encircle and destroy large amounts of Ukrainian forces over the next weeks. Major urban areas will be turned to rubble.


The Ghost of Kyiv story is discussed and debunked in this thread many pages ago. Maybe concentrate on latest developments? 

I have also created a related thread in which Facts & Figures are highlighted and propaganda is ummasked.

Members are allowed provide their own updates in this thread.


----------



## Madni Bappa

sammuel said:


> spot the differences .
> 
> Zalenski with his minister of defense , Putin with his . . .


The top looks like a serious discussion

Bottom looks like a selfie on set of a sitcom with a comedian.



Patriot forever said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497602531467403270
> View attachment 821550
> 
> 
> 
> Explaining the war..
> 
> 
> 
> The war was in the making for a along time. These are not just random mercenaries but were prepared for this in advance.


I am amazed how someone can be so stupid to become a puppet and sacrificial lamb for someone else based on very hollow promises?

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## Oldman1

nangyale said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Although Russians have a better pain tolerance to these tactics than compared to say Poland, Germany or France.


Not sure if you call it better pain tolerance with planes getting blown up and schools being taken by the terrorists.



Madni Bappa said:


> The top looks like a serious discussion
> 
> Bottom looks like a selfie on set of a sitcom with a comedian.
> 
> 
> I am amazed how someone can be so stupid to become a puppet and sacrificial lamb for someone else based on very hollow promises?


Just remember who the puppet is like Belarus to allow an invasion of Ukraine in north. Maybe Ukraine has a puppet installed and Russia can attack Poland next. Right now we have Belarusian volunteers coming to help Ukraine and some military officers refusing to invade Ukraine.


----------



## sammuel

FairAndUnbiased said:


> you do realize that Ukraine is outnumbering Russia 400k to 200k yet unable to stop the shelling of their major population centers? that's not what winning looks like.



Really is not about winning . I don't think there is an argument that Russia is much stronger than Ukraine and they can always pour more planes and troops into the conflict and take Ukraine . The Question is at what cost ?

If they devastate Ukraine how will they rule their afterword's ? 

I think most expected Ukraine to fold after a few days. But they did not and are fighting a lot harder than people expected.

~


----------



## alimobin memon

LeGenD said:


> The Ghost of Kyiv story is discussed and debunked in this thread many pages ago. Maybe concentrate on latest developments?
> 
> I have also created a related thread in which Facts & Figures are highlighted and propaganda is ummasked.
> 
> Members are allowed provide their own updates in this thread.


name of thread sir ?


----------



## LeGenD

alimobin memon said:


> name of thread sir ?


Here





__





Repository of journalistic sources and how to use them with Russia - Ukraine War in focus and Fact-checking considerations


Dear members, Some members complain about the issue of reporting bias (and propaganda) in journalistic contents. These complaints were noticed in the following thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/ This thread is created to address the...



defence.pk

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## serenity

Paul2 said:


> There is a website which does killcount verification on both sides



But your claim was that most Russian tanks were probably taken out without firing a shot.

Please link to the count website. How can we trust the numbers on the count website?



Wergeland 2.0 said:


> How plausible is this scenario? It sounds a bit farfetched tbh.



You didn't quote my post in entirety and I think you missed the point. I wasn't saying Russia is losing 5% to 10% forces in every send out mission but was questioning it. I'm not saying that's not the case, we simply don't know. They would deplete entire Russian military within 3 weeks from now if this is the case or the send out on each mission becoming so little that the loss ratio becomes much more than 5% to 10%.

5% to 10% ratio would require some seriously capable Ukrainian air deployment but it's doable for Ukrainian forces because they have geurlla war advantage and home ground advantage. They have lots of good manpads and ATGMs so taking out 5% to 10% of Russian forces that are going into a city for example, is entirely possible.

I just doubt that Ukrainian forces are taking out nearly all Russian tanks before Russian tanks even fire a single shot. For that, they wouldn't just need incredible amount of ATGMs in well trained and positioned troops but also lot's more air capability that is certainly not the case.

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## Oldman1

serenity said:


> But your claim was that most Russian tanks were probably taken out without firing a shot.
> 
> Please link to the count website. How can we trust the numbers on the count website?
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't quote my post in entirety and I think you missed the point. I wasn't saying Russia is losing 5% to 10% forces in every send out mission but was questioning it. I'm not saying that's not the case, we simply don't know. They would deplete entire Russian military within 3 weeks from now if this is the case or the send out on each mission becoming so little that the loss ratio becomes much more than 5% to 10%.
> 
> 5% to 10% ratio would require some seriously capable Ukrainian air deployment but it's doable for Ukrainian forces because they have geurlla war advantage and home ground advantage. They have lots of good manpads and ATGMs so taking out 5% to 10% of Russian forces that are going into a city for example, is entirely possible.
> 
> I just doubt that Ukrainian forces are taking out nearly all Russian tanks before Russian tanks even fire a single shot. For that, they wouldn't just need incredible amount of ATGMs in well trained and positioned troops but also lot's more air capability that is certainly not the case.


If the Russians try to penetrate into Kiev with heavy armor assault, I guarantee you the loss ratio will be higher, at least 50%. You notice there are no videos of Javelins being used...?


----------



## serenity

Oldman1 said:


> If the Russians try to penetrate into Kiev with heavy armor assault, I guarantee you the loss ratio will be higher, at least 50%. You notice there are no videos of Javelins being used...?



I think so too.

There are too many ATGMs around for Russian to use so much armor without clearing infantry. If Russia uses lots of infantry, the losses in lives are huge.

Urban warfare is impossible for the invader and invader that depends on armor. If we put USA in Russia's position, the outcome would be severe losses as well. To perform such a takeover of a well defended city full of ATGMs and snipers in their tens of thousands of troops if not more, the only real way to do it is paradigm shift weapons or strategy. Some suggest drones, robotic infantry with more advanced sensors to counter snipers and ATGMs but in this sort of warfare, no one has proven a way.

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## Oldman1

serenity said:


> I think so too.
> 
> There are too many ATGMs around for Russian to use so much armor without clearing infantry. If Russia uses lots of infantry, the losses in lives are huge.
> 
> Urban warfare is impossible for the invader and invader that depends on armor. If we put USA in Russia's position, the outcome would be severe losses as well. To perform such a takeover of a well defended city full of ATGMs and snipers in their tens of thousands of troops if not more, the only real way to do it is paradigm shift weapons or strategy. Some suggest drones, robotic infantry with more advanced sensors to counter snipers and ATGMs but in this sort of warfare, no one has proven a way.


Urban warfare is one of the worst besides jungle warfare. Can't see anywhere few feet from you, enemy can be just behind the wall next to you. And you can get hit from all directions, top and bottom. I wouldn't be surprise Ukrainians will start using IEDs and so on if they ran out of ATGMs, but with more supplies and more than 14k ATGMs delivered and many more coming in...they don't really have to.

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## coffee_cup

beijingwalker said:


> It's more like a branch office operating with a different name, it's still Chinese.
> 
> TikTok, known in China as Douyin (Chinese: 抖音; pinyin: Dǒuyīn), is a video-focused social networking service *owned by Chinese company ByteDance Ltd*



Please stop exposing the highly "intelligent", "I-have-served-in-every-corner-of-the-universe" faker.

Honestly, most of the people reply this person's post just to have a giggle. No one takes him seriously, :- D

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## 8888888888888

sammuel said:


> Really is not about winning . I don't think there is an argument that Russia is much stronger than Ukraine and they can always pour more planes and troops into the conflict and take Ukraine . The Question is at what cost ?
> 
> If they devastate Ukraine how will they rule their afterword's ?
> 
> I think most expected Ukraine to fold after a few days. But they did not and are fighting a lot harder than people expected.
> 
> ~


Putin already knows they are not going to fold easily, what I assume he will do is do siege warfare and kill as many as those people as possible. Which kind of worked in Chechnya and Syria, even if they ran away into the forest he will just mobilized more troops, trap them inside the forest and root them out.

As long as Nato doesn't interfere he will win.



Oldman1 said:


> Urban warfare is one of the worst besides jungle warfare. Can't see anywhere few feet from you, enemy can be just behind the wall next to you. And you can get hit from all directions, top and bottom. I wouldn't be surprise Ukrainians will start using IEDs and so on if they ran out of ATGMs, but with more supplies and more than 14k ATGMs delivered and many more coming in...they don't really have to.


Can be won like in WW2, by leveling all city blocks as you advance.


----------



## coffee_cup

Microsoft said:


> lmao this can't be real. What channel is this?
> 
> Edit: It's fake. The original is from a protest in Austria Feb 4, 2022



Not defending propaganda by MSM, but this was taken from a demonstration carried some time back against climate change in Germany.

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## RescueRanger

Patriot forever said:


> I have to give the West the media victory hands down..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500563055301869573
> Put goebbels to shame, didn't even spare this forum. 😂


I have to admit the copium in this thread was interesting. 😂

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## Oldman1

8888888888888 said:


> Can be won like in WW2, by leveling all city blocks as you advance.


Yeah but wouldn't paint a good picture for the Ukrainians. But since the cat is out of the bag, Putin will have to do it if he thinks he can get them to surrender which I doubt.


----------



## Dustom999

Oldman1 said:


> Yeah but wouldn't paint a good picture for the Ukrainians. But since the cat is out of the bag, Putin will have to do it if he thinks he can get them to surrender which I doubt.


Besieged city. Just cutting the power and water will make the city fall within a week.
But russians haven't really targeted transmission lines and water supply for now, let's see if it gets to that.
For now Russian offense seems to be limited to military infra only.


----------



## RescueRanger

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500711700470931456
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500712752553381890


One of them says “I’ve made it on CNN”… 

Combat chasers confirmed - the real deal don’t need to advertise their presence nor wear MTP fatigues to show why they are going. 

It’s all shits and giggles till arty shells start landing on their heads. And I’m disappointed that that not one of them have a shovel attached to their day sack. 

*A shovel is your friend! *



coffee_cup said:


> Not defending propaganda by MSM, but this was taken from a demonstration carried some time back against climate change in Germany.


Exactly . Context is important!


----------



## Oldman1

Dustom999 said:


> Besieged city. Just cutting the power and water will make the city fall within a week.
> But russians haven't really targeted transmission lines and water supply for now, let's see if it gets to that.
> For now Russian offense seems to be limited to military infra only.


Well the problem with besieging a city is you have to have your forces all spread out around the city, it's not like a medieval castle or something like the Alamo where it only takes a few thousand troops and surround it on all sides. Cutting power and water is one way to do it. But as you have seen, the Russian forces are having a hard time just going around because there are Ukrainian units waiting for them there. And they can resupply and repair. I mean just look at Starlink satellites, try to cut off the internet, Ukrainians have satellite access internet. Who knows what else they can do...


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500703124323201024


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## Dustom999

Oldman1 said:


> Well the problem with besieging a city is you have to have your forces all spread out around the city, it's not like a medieval castle or something like the Alamo where it only takes a few thousand troops and surround it on all sides. Cutting power and water is one way to do it. But as you have seen, the Russian forces are having a hard time just going around because there are Ukrainian units waiting for them there. And they can resupply and repair. I mean just look at Starlink satellites, try to cut off the internet, Ukrainians have satellite access internet. Who knows what else they can do...


I agree, entrapment isn't yet fully complete and lot of western hardware coming in. It is another matter to see how much of it will actually make it to kyiv.
It will likely take a week to 10 days more.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500763241273823233


----------



## Patriot forever

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500753868719804423

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500741756270354433
Old T-72's goodbye, new armata welcome $💵

( I do not support this war just want to highlight how Europe is paying for the war in Europe at the behest of US/UK, not only they are paying for this war but also will pay for Anglo slavery in terms of higher cost LNG shipments from US in future).

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## Vergennes

The kharkiv forest is becoming the graveyard of the occupier 



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500693080235986947

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## Iñigo

The complete blindness of the US empire's lackeys

Can anyone explain why it was so terrible and costly to grant Ukraine neutrality?

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## Oldman1

Dustom999 said:


> I agree, entrapment isn't yet fully complete and lot of western hardware coming in. It is another matter to see how much of it will actually make it to kyiv.
> It will likely take a week to 10 days more.


If they are just reaching Kiev but not doing anything and their supply line gets constantly disrupted, the whole Russian forces in the North and East can fall as well. In other words, they are the ones being besieged. It be like in the movie Kingdom of Heaven and the Jerusalem Army was wiped out by the Muslim forces led by Saladin.


----------



## Dustom999

Oldman1 said:


> Well the problem with besieging a city is you have to have your forces all spread out around the city, it's not like a medieval castle or something like the Alamo where it only takes a few thousand troops and surround it on all sides. Cutting power and water is one way to do it. But as you have seen, the Russian forces are having a hard time just going around because there are Ukrainian units waiting for them there. And they can resupply and repair. I mean just look at Starlink satellites, try to cut off the internet, Ukrainians have satellite access internet. Who knows what else they can do...


I agree, entrapment isn't yet fully complete and lot of western hardware coming in. It is another matter to yet see how much of it will actually make it to kyiv.
It will likely take a week to 10 days


Oldman1 said:


> If they are just reaching Kiev but not doing anything and their supply line gets constantly disrupted, the whole Russian forces in the North and East can fall as well. In other words, they are the ones being besieged. It be like in the movie Kingdom of Heaven and the Jerusalem Army was wiped out by the Muslim forces lead by Saladin.


Let's revisit the situation in a weeks time.


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## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> The kharkiv forest is becoming the graveyard of the occupier
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500693080235986947
> View attachment 821581
> 
> View attachment 821582
> 
> View attachment 821583


So what part of add a spoiler to dead bodies don’t you understand ? @LeGenD 

It’s a simple rule we are all abiding by please add a spoiler to that video as it shows Deceased bodies.

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## Vergennes

Russia annexes Crimea,invades and funds terrorists in eastern Ukraine yet ask why Ukraine is looking westward and do not trust the Russians anymore. 



RescueRanger said:


> So what part of add a spoiler to dead bodies don’t you understand ? @LeGenD
> 
> It’s a simple rule we are all abiding by please add a spoiler to that video as it shows Deceased bodies.



Sorry for forgetting once

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## gambit

Iñigo said:


> The complete blindness of the US empire's lackeys
> 
> Can anyone explain why it was so terrible and costly to grant Ukraine neutrality?


Because neutrality does not secure independence and sovereignty.

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## FuturePAF

Iñigo said:


> The complete blindness of the US empire's lackeys
> 
> Can anyone explain why it was so terrible and costly to grant Ukraine neutrality?


If your not growing your are losing, not capitalizing on Russian weakness to stabilize Europe. Like they use to tell the US troops in Germany; the mission is “Keep the Russians out, US in, and Germans Down”.

The goal is, globally in general but in Europe specially; Pax Americana

I wonder if foreign countries will start pulling their foreign reserves out of foreign banks considering how vulnerable they are to being seized, and dump the Euro alongside the dollar because western sanctions are more and more tied together.

Btw, considering basically all western entities are pulling out of Russia, and there are threats to stop importing Russian oil and gas, what do you suppose the real Russian GDP is now?

If Adidas is basically shutting down in Russia what will happen to the iconic Russian Gopniks (the de facto “casual wear” of the Russian paramilitaries ) ?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500488840963887114

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500763212333326336

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## Iñigo

The aggressiveness of the West is such that it does not accept any agreement. We have seen it first hand.

A German Admiral expressed an ordinary and even biased opinion towards the West and had to resign. The chairman of the Finnish parliament's foreign affairs committee was forced to resign because of a very reasonable sentence, a single sentence.

The West is a religious sect, a bunch of fanatics. Torquemada was an amateur









Tomás de Torquemada - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org

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## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> Russia annexes Crimea,invades and funds terrorists in eastern Ukraine yet ask why Ukraine is looking westward and do not trust the Russians anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry for forgetting once


It’s not once I’ve actually tolerated a lot of people ignore if this rule but the rules apply to us all.

And it’s not hard to remember - spoiler- we’ve mentioned it multiple times in the thread.

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## Vapnope

@RescueRanger Why Russia is not attacking the areas near Poland where all the weapons are coming from?
I mean usage of ballistic or cruise missiles.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500766873192996865

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## Patriot forever

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500763212333326336
> View attachment 821585



They never wanted the corridors to work, it will erode their human shield factor.

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## Oldman1

gambit said:


> Because neutrality does not secure independence and sovereignty.


Neutrality is not the same as being Russia's puppet as we have seen since Russia taking Crimea and trying to take Donbass and Luhansk.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500762038125088772


----------



## FuturePAF

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500763212333326336
> View attachment 821585


A 60% increase in the price of oil from the beginning of the year and this seems like just the beginning. Wait till spring planting season and the need for fertilizers spike.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500760670652055553

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500751729155051521

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## RescueRanger

Vapnope said:


> @RescueRanger Why Russia is not attacking the areas near Poland where all the weapons are coming from?
> I mean usage of ballistic or cruise missiles.


Brother Poland is part of NATO that will trigger all out war. Russians aren’t suicidal. Yet…

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500749306864750592


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## Oldman1

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500762038125088772


Thats a lot of jets that was supposedly neutralized early in the war as some posters said...


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500729583775412224


----------



## Paul2

Clutch said:


> A CIA sponsored coup to take out Putin will put a end to the Russian assault right away....



Coup? Russia is no Guatemala, it has a spy, and a secret policeman behind every corner. It may likely have a lot more of these than China.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Oldman1 said:


> Thats a lot of jets that was supposedly neutralized early in the war as some posters said...



Those are fighter jets taken down by Russian army recently.


----------



## Oldman1

Vapnope said:


> @RescueRanger Why Russia is not attacking the areas near Poland where all the weapons are coming from?
> I mean usage of ballistic or cruise missiles.


Umm...think of the U.S. trying to stop the supplies, weapons and men going through Cambodia to South Vietnam during the war. It's kind of like that.

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## Vapnope

RescueRanger said:


> Brother Poland is part of NATO that will trigger all out war. Russians aren’t suicidal. Yet…


Not Poland but Ukraine. I mean near their border where the logistics is coming from.

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## Enigma SIG

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500763212333326336
> View attachment 821585


Ok so anybody interested in buying my dino juice operated car. I'd like a bicycle please.

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## Oldman1

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Those are fighter jets taken down by Russian army recently.


Yes I'm aware of that...


----------



## Paul2

FairAndUnbiased said:


> lmao why do you keep posting when you're often proven to be factually wrong? Do you not get embarassed when you're proven wrong? You know about Grozny? *they leveled the city with artillery and bombers.*
> 
> Ukrainian forces outnumber Russian forces in theater 2:1 yet they're unable to repel an attack on their own soil. Are they winning?
> 
> They're supposedly "winning" yet are flooding reservoirs, releasing prisoners and handing out guns to children. Why do this if you're winning conventionally?



If you had made any effort to research things up, you would've known that Russians also initially tried to blitzkrieg Grozni, and were crushed.

Only after that, did they resort to levelling the city, while their land forces were _still there fighting_


----------



## 8888888888888

Oldman1 said:


> Yeah but wouldn't paint a good picture for the Ukrainians. But since the cat is out of the bag, Putin will have to do it if he thinks he can get them to surrender which I doubt.


Ukrainians will just protest anyway so he thinks the bombardment will make them reconsider protesting if they survived.



Dustom999 said:


> Besieged city. Just cutting the power and water will make the city fall within a week.
> But russians haven't really targeted transmission lines and water supply for now, let's see if it gets to that.
> For now Russian offense seems to be limited to military infra only.


I suspect they want to lure in as many as possible and then they will cut off.


----------



## Oldman1

8888888888888 said:


> Ukrainians will just protest anyway so he thinks the bombardment will make them reconsider protesting if they survived.


They will protest and overthrow Putin's installed government if it ever came to that, and then he will have to invade Ukraine again!


----------



## LeGenD

serenity said:


> I think so too.
> 
> There are too many ATGMs around for Russian to use so much armor without clearing infantry. If Russia uses lots of infantry, the losses in lives are huge.
> 
> Urban warfare is impossible for the invader and invader that depends on armor. If we put USA in Russia's position, the outcome would be severe losses as well. To perform such a takeover of a well defended city full of ATGMs and snipers in their tens of thousands of troops if not more, the only real way to do it is paradigm shift weapons or strategy. Some suggest drones, robotic infantry with more advanced sensors to counter snipers and ATGMs but in this sort of warfare, no one has proven a way.


You sure about that? American Tanks are much better armored than Russian Tanks. They can also be equipped with TUSK and Trophy APS for operations in urban warfare in current times.

American Tanks proved their mettle in Najaf (2003), Baghdad (2003), and Fallujah (2004) respectively. Tank losses were low in each.

Baghdad is a big city with substantial population base. American 3rd Infantry Division (and Marines) were able to fight their way to key locations of Baghdad in spite of heavy resistance and also surprised Iraqi defenders in some locations with their pace (Thunder Run tactics). Americans used A10 Warthogs in Baghdad as well although 1 was lost in the process.

Both USAF and USN are much better equipped than Russian Air Force as well. American jet fighters reduced Raqqa (ISIS stronghold in Syria) to a pile of rubble in 2017. US-backed Kurdish militia helped clear the city from ISIS fighters on the ground in tandem. Performance of US-led forces in Raqqa shocked and impressed even Russians (apparent in RT coverage of the time).

US-led forces also liberated Mosul (ISIS stronghold in Iraq) in 2017. New Iraqi army armed with M1A1M Abrams Tanks helped clear the city from ISIS fighters in this battle.

Russian armed forces are not in the league of American armed forces TBH. Too much difference in technology and funding available to both.

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## Iñigo



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## RescueRanger

Vapnope said:


> Not Poland but Ukraine. I mean near their border where the logistics is coming from.


Because it would overstretch their military and their supply lines are non-existent for example the land mass of Kyiv Oblast alone is 28,121 Km2... That puts things in perspective how much land has to be covered.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500622446168322049

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## RescueRanger

Oldman1 said:


> They will protest and overthrow Putin's installed government if it ever came to that, and then he will have to invade Ukraine again!


Putin is more interested in the Donbass and Luhansk region and the sea of Azov.


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak




----------



## jhungary

News report about Russian losing 2 Colonels when Ukraine retake Chuhuiv (North Eastern Ukraine)



Ukraine 'RE-TAKES' Chuhuiv city and kills two Russian commanders





> 'Lieutenant Colonel Dmitry Safronov, Commander of the 61st Separate Marine Brigade of the Russian Armed Forces, and Lieutenant Colonel Denis Glebov, Deputy Commander of the 11th Separate Airborne Assault Brigade of the Russian Armed Forces, were killed.'

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## Iñigo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500488840963887114



Amazing

Judaism was in Greek and Roman times a widespread religion "all over the world" (Flavius Josephus) and in particular it spread like wildfire among women. It was a very widespread religion and spread very widely "throughout all the nations" until the end of the Late Antique period, when under Christian and Islamic pressure it was closed down, giving way over time to a religion-ethnicity.

Of the three branches (Mizrahim, Sefardim, Askenazim) the last one thrived most in the Polish-Lithuanian that stretched halfway across actual Ukraine.

Its success was due to occupying an intermediate position in the "totem pole": (A) Catholic ruling class (B) Yiddish people (C) Christian peasantry.









Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## jhungary

serenity said:


> I think so too.
> 
> There are too many ATGMs around for Russian to use so much armor without clearing infantry. If Russia uses lots of infantry, the losses in lives are huge.
> 
> Urban warfare is impossible for the invader and invader that depends on armor. If we put USA in Russia's position, the outcome would be severe losses as well. To perform such a takeover of a well defended city full of ATGMs and snipers in their tens of thousands of troops if not more, the only real way to do it is paradigm shift weapons or strategy. Some suggest drones, robotic infantry with more advanced sensors to counter snipers and ATGMs but in this sort of warfare, no one has proven a way.



We will not use Tank in Build Up area, period. If you use a single tank, you need at least a squad of soldier (10) to be the tanks eyes and ears. 

We will just leave the tank on the outskirt act as a blocking force and fight urban battle on foot.


----------



## Paul2

jhungary said:


> News report about Russian losing 2 Colonels when Ukraine retake Chuhuiv (North Eastern Ukraine)
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine 'RE-TAKES' Chuhuiv city and kills two Russian commanders



What exactly is Russian command structure for the operation now?


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> What exactly is Russian command structure for the operation now?


Well, Lt Col would have been middle management, midway between Company Officer and Field Officer. 

Which mean they are going to be in charge of either a Brigade or maybe a Battalion. 

Those people would have been in the CIC or TOC when they were killed (If they were indeed killed), which mean they either did not retreat or have no time to retreat.


----------



## serenity

LeGenD said:


> You sure about that? American Tanks are much better armored than Russian Tanks. They can also be equipped with TUSK and Trophy APS for operations in urban warfare in current times.
> 
> American Tanks proved their mettle in Najaf (2003), Baghdad (2003), and Fallujah (2004) respectively. Tank losses were low in each.
> 
> Baghdad is a big city with substantial population base. American 3rd Infantry Division (and Marines) were able to fight their way to key locations of Baghdad in spite of heavy resistance and also surprised Iraqi defenders in some locations with their pace (Thunder Run tactics). Americans used A10 Warthogs in Baghdad as well although 1 was lost in the process.
> 
> Both USAF and USN are much better equipped than Russian Air Force as well. American jet fighters reduced Raqqa (ISIS stronghold in Syria) to a pile of rubble in 2017. US-backed Kurdish militia helped clear the city from ISIS fighters on the ground in tandem. Performance of US-led forces in Raqqa shocked and impressed even Russians (apparent in RT coverage of the time).
> 
> US-led forces also liberated Mosul (ISIS stronghold in Iraq) in 2017. New Iraqi army armed with M1A1M Abrams Tanks helped clear the city from ISIS fighters in this battle.
> 
> Russian armed forces are not in the league of American armed forces TBH. Too much difference in technology and funding available to both.



American tanks are more well protected than Russian ones but also weak at the top, on the sides, from the back. I think they may fare a bit better but against Ukraine, not so much.

There is no comparison between Ukraine and Iraq. USA operated with air superiority and bombed those Iraqi cities and spared more resources to help ground forces. They can afford to in a way Russia simply cannot.

It's like asking a poor country to spend the same amount on an item as a rich country and purchase many thousands of that item for let's say a public good. The poor country realistically cannot afford to and must settle for cheaper item. The "cost" of that cheaper item is lower serviceability but that is the nature of being poorer. Russia cannot afford to shell this building because there is suspicious movement and activity within. USA bombed and shelled more liberally than Russia has for multiple reasons. Same for APS. Russia has APS but cannot afford to put them on every tank.

If it was USA in Russia's boots now but operating as USA, if they didn't bomb and shell any more than Russia has, I think their losses may not be so much better. Who knows. US tanks are better armored but a modern ATGM will go through M1A2's top, side, back armor just as much as it would a T-72. From the front and angled frontal shots, the M1 is a lot better. Then there are the APS systems and superior infantry equipment to support operations and to provide better situational awareness.

No doubt Russia is not as well equipped or anywhere near as rich. They prefer some old brute force military doctrines but I don't think US in that position would fare that much better. Iraq bombarded and shelled is not the same as Ukraine that has been less shelled and bombed than US preliminary strikes on Iraq.

I think Ukraine has always been considerably stronger than Iraq.

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## jamahir

Vergennes said:


> Russia annexes Crimea,invades and funds terrorists in eastern Ukraine yet ask why Ukraine is looking westward and do not trust the Russians anymore.



 If you think the so-called Libyan and Syrian rebels who are actually AQ and "M"B terrorists / criminals can be funded by your French government to fight against the governance systems there for 11 long years now why can't actual rebels in Ukraine be supported by Russia to fight against Zelensky's government ?

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

serenity said:


> I think Ukraine has always been considerably stronger than Iraq.



You also have to keep in mind that Iraq was way far in the past.. 2003 while this is 2022 invasion hence the technology and weapons are much better today then yesterday where the US had somewhat of an unfair advantage but that advantage is closing down everywhere

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## Musings

Vergennes said:


> Russia annexes Crimea,invades and funds terrorists in eastern Ukraine yet ask why Ukraine is looking westward and do not trust the Russians anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry for forgetting once



I have no allegiance with Russia or Putin but find it distasteful when members stoop to putting smile emojis when discussing death of those soldiers that are simply following orders. Do you feel an urge of satisfaction and happiness knowing that sons daughters partners and parents (ordinary people) have lost loved ones? Its down right poor and shows plenty of your mindset.

The West have often been the instigators of wars - sometimes thousands of miles away from their borders - interfering and encouraging on loss of life, often disregarding whether its innocent or non innocent. Now Russia has reason to find extreme concern to their security on their border - the west are attempting to portray them as the "lunatic and rogue" nation? The irony is an eye opener.

Its like the school bully that goes round throwing bricks at anybody that refuses to hand over the dinner money - when someone else throws litter - they scream and rant "foul play". 

Your last comment is another lie. You havent forgotten - you never forget - it just in your nature to troll.

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## xuxu1457

good job，Ukraine player in Beijing

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

xuxu1457 said:


> good job，Ukraine player in Beijing



Is the Winter-O still going


----------



## xuxu1457

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Is the Winter-O still going


yes,After every Olympic Games, there will be Paralympic Games.

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## jhungary

serenity said:


> American tanks are more well protected than Russian ones but also weak at the top, on the sides, from the back. I think they may fare a bit better but against Ukraine, not so much.
> 
> There is no comparison between Ukraine and Iraq. USA operated with air superiority and bombed those Iraqi cities and spared more resources to help ground forces. They can afford to in a way Russia simply cannot.
> 
> It's like asking a poor country to spend the same amount on an item as a rich country and purchase many thousands of that item for let's say a public good. The poor country realistically cannot afford to and must settle for cheaper item. The "cost" of that cheaper item is lower serviceability but that is the nature of being poorer. Russia cannot afford to shell this building because there is suspicious movement and activity within. USA bombed and shelled more liberally than Russia has for multiple reasons. Same for APS. Russia has APS but cannot afford to put them on every tank.
> 
> If it was USA in Russia's boots now but operating as USA, if they didn't bomb and shell any more than Russia has, I think their losses may not be so much better. Who knows. US tanks are better armored but a modern ATGM will go through M1A2's top, side, back armor just as much as it would a T-72. From the front and angled frontal shots, the M1 is a lot better. Then there are the APS systems and superior infantry equipment to support operations and to provide better situational awareness.
> 
> No doubt Russia is not as well equipped or anywhere near as rich. They prefer some old brute force military doctrines but I don't think US in that position would fare that much better. Iraq bombarded and shelled is not the same as Ukraine that has been less shelled and bombed than US preliminary strikes on Iraq.
> 
> I think Ukraine has always been considerably stronger than Iraq.


If this was the US who are fighting Ukraine, the first thing they will not is not to send Javelin to Ukraine and ask NATO member not to as well. 

There are only 1 (ONE) way you don't suffer heavy casualty fighting in Urban environment, and that is by using Shock and Awe tactics, you strike them hard before any meaningful defence is setup, the opening strike would need to work with other support element and taken out tactical target before you start your invasion, anything that can organise defences have to go. That is how we avoid fighting in Baghdad street by street twice (in 1991 and 2003) 

This is what Russia planned to replicated, but they can't, for various reason, now they are facing a what we called an determined and entrenched enemy, this is going to mean a massive lost of live on both side.


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## tower9

Patriot forever said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500753868719804423
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500741756270354433
> Old T-72's goodbye, new armata welcome $💵
> 
> ( I do not support this war just want to highlight how Europe is paying for the war in Europe at the behest of US/UK, not only they are paying for this war but also will pay for Anglo slavery in terms of higher cost LNG shipments from US in future).


Europe and to a lesser extent, the US economy is going to get wrecked. Russia will be the most damaged but the West is going to be hit hard by inflation as well. Not to mention that dollar dominance is going to gradually decline further with a chain of events that these sanctions will put in place. The great middle class of Europe and the US will rapidly shrink.

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## LeGenD

The MIGHTY Russian Armata MBT spotted anywhere?

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## serenity

tower9 said:


> Europe and to a lesser extent, the US economy is going to get wrecked. Russia will be the most damaged but the West is going to be hit hard by inflation as well. Not to mention that dollar dominance is going to gradually decline further with a chain of events that these sanctions will put in place. The great middle class of Europe and the US will rapidly shrink.



Price of energy will go 2x to 10x in short term future.

Energy is what all nations are built on and require. Every task, every business, every motion.

Saudi Arabia and UAE are not going to help them much. Iran won't either.

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## Primus

I wonder if the fighting will escalate to a point where Ukrainian forces are using weaponry that was just made in the factory to fight the Russians. Similar to what the USSR did in ww2


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## tower9

Huffal said:


> I wonder if the fighting will escalate to a point where Ukrainian forces are using weaponry that was just made in the factory to fight the Russians. Similar to what the USSR did in ww2


With the way things are going, there won’t be any Ukrainian factories. The weapons have to be smuggled from nato.

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500497330302238720


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500795418615160833

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500796664507994117


----------



## jhungary

LeGenD said:


> The MIGHTY Russian Armata MBT spotted anywhere?


You will know when one of those Ukrainian farmer is towing it to their farm......and an ad the next day.

"*Brand New Armata, never been fired only towed once*."


----------



## thetutle

FairAndUnbiased said:


> you do realize that Ukraine is outnumbering Russia 400k to 200k yet unable to stop the shelling of their major population centers? that's not what winning looks like.


There will be no winners except the west if this continues. Ukraine has already lost maybe trillions of dollars of infrastructure and maybe 15,000 lives. But denying Russia the resources of this massive land and its 45 million population is the goal and if that is achieved, the west wins and Ukraine will be fee and then they will rebuild with the help of the west. They have done it many times before and they'll do it again. Ukraine will not have a classic total victory, noone has ever suggested that. IF they are lucky they will get their freedom and a ruined country. But one if they are willing to sacrifice 100k to 300k lives for it. 

I think its worth it if I was a Ukrainian.


----------



## tower9

thetutle said:


> There will be no winners except the west if this continues. Ukraine has already lost maybe trillions of dollars of infrastructure and maybe 15,000 lives. But denying Russia the resources of this massive land and its 45 million population is the goal and if that is achieved, the west wins and Ukraine will be fee and then they will rebuild with the help of the west. They have done it many times before and they'll do it again. Ukraine will not have a classic total victory, noone has ever suggested that. IF they are lucky they will get their freedom and a ruined country. But one if they are willing to sacrifice 100k to 300k lives for it.
> 
> I think its worth it if I was a Ukrainian.


Russia will be wrecked by this no doubt. But so will the west, especially Europe. I know that the western media has distorted facts about the global reality so long that most westerners are out of touch with the way the world is changing but Europe’s economy is about to be majorly wrecked. I am talking about the dissipation of much of the middle class.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500797084726964231


----------



## thetutle

Dustom999 said:


> I agree, entrapment isn't yet fully complete and lot of western hardware coming in. It is another matter to see how much of it will actually make it to kyiv.
> It will likely take a week to 10 days more.


I will certainly take 10 or more, if Indians are in charge of logistics.


----------



## Vergennes

Russian supply convoy ambushed in Kharkiv region​

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500796074583330820


----------



## Patriot forever

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500787946424868866
This makes Russian army looks like a Saint.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

Iñigo said:


> The complete blindness of the US empire's lackeys
> 
> Can anyone explain why it was so terrible and costly to grant Ukraine neutrality?


Putin wanted neutrality and demilitarisation so he could invade with no casualties. Sorry, territorial expansion will cost them.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500805455131648001


----------



## maverick1977

There is so much disinformation going on, no real clear scenario of where this war is going.

1) is the war leaning towards Russia or Ukraine? 
2) is it becoming a gureilla warfare with 17 thousand ATGMs being pumped in?
3) Are mercenaries coming in from Russia or from west to fight ?

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## Bengal71

Avicenna said:


> I never thought I would say this but.....I miss Trump.



Yeah Trump seems very war averse.


----------



## Ashesh

Everyone will bear the burnt of Russian Sanctions:



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500808295539425285

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500739535558356993

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## gambit

tower9 said:


> *Russia will be wrecked by this no doubt. But so will the west, especially Europe.* I know that the western media has distorted facts about the global reality so long that most westerners are out of touch with the way the world is changing but Europe’s economy is about to be majorly wrecked. I am talking about the dissipation of much of the middle class.


No, the notional West is more resilient than you think. And when I said 'notional', it includes JPN, SKR, Taiwan, and Singapore.

AIIB seems to be the first bank to refuse to do anything with Russia. Other banks *WILL* follow suit. There will be some reluctance mainly from pressure by The Party, but if The Party allows the financial sector some independence, more financial institutions will back away from Russia. On the other hand, the US with our 20T economy will assist Europe. Look at the current hostility towards Russia in the non-military and non-governmental areas. The longer this war, the more likely Ukraine will win in the end. The US and NATO will tread the legality line to send military aid to Ukraine while China does nothing to help Russia. Russian casualties will build and Elon Musk will be credited. Is there a Chinese Elon Musk equivalent to help Russia?

The bottom line is that the US-Europe will be damaged but it will be nothing like Russia *WILL* receive.

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## tower9

gambit said:


> No, the notional West is more resilient than you think. And when I said 'notional', it includes JPN, SKR, Taiwan, and Singapore.
> 
> AIIB seems to be the first bank to refuse to do anything with Russia. Other banks *WILL* follow suit. There will be some reluctance mainly from pressure by The Party, but if The Party allows the financial sector some independence, more financial institutions will back away from Russia. On the other hand, the US with our 20T economy will assist Europe. Look at the current hostility towards Russia in the non-military and non-governmental areas. The longer this war, the more likely Ukraine will win in the end. The US and NATO will tread the legality line to send military aid to Ukraine while China does nothing to help Russia. Russian casualties will build and Elon Musk will be credited. Is there a Chinese Elon Musk equivalent to help Russia?
> 
> The bottom line is that the US-Europe will be damaged but it will be nothing like Russia *WILL* receive.


Did I say Russia was not going to be wrecked? 

It will. But you are underestimating how wrecked the west’s middle class will be. Just wait and see, no point pondering here.


----------



## gambit

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500739535558356993


If this is true, and allowing the 'fast and furious' nature of internet news, maybe the Russia/Poutine supporters should consider the possibility that while the Ukrainian military maybe lacking in hardware, they are not short in prescience. Given what happened to Georgia, the Ukrainians could have been preparing for this invasion or at least have been laying out at the high level what they could do if Russia invade. And that was unexpected for Poutine.

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## Wood

gambit said:


> If this is true, and allowing the 'fast and furious' nature of internet news, maybe the Russia/Poutine supporters should consider the possibility that while the Ukrainian military maybe lacking in hardware, they are not short in prescience. Given what happened to Georgia, the Ukrainians could have been preparing for this invasion or at least have been laying out at the high level what they could do if Russia invade. And that was unexpected for Poutine.


CIA could also be in ground to support Ukranian defence with intelligence and strategic direction to delay occupation.

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## alimobin memon

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500739535558356993


If true this could a failure greater than this Russian offensive could be greater failure than afghan retreat.

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## RescueRanger

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500739535558356993


I'll withhold judgement until I see clear footage of this.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500815417765470215


----------



## coffee_cup

gambit said:


> If this is true, and allowing the 'fast and furious' nature of internet news, maybe the Russia/*Poutine *supporters should consider the possibility that while the Ukrainian military maybe lacking in hardware, they are not short in prescience. Given what happened to Georgia, the Ukrainians could have been preparing for this invasion or at least have been laying out at the high level what they could do if Russia invade. And that was unexpected for Poutine.



@LeGenD : I am wondering if it is ok to deliberately misspell the country leader in insulting ways? Not that it bothers me, but it would be nice to have clarity, :- )

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## thetutle

tower9 said:


> Russia will be wrecked by this no doubt. But so will the west, especially Europe. I know that the western media has distorted facts about the global reality so long that most westerners are out of touch with the way the world is changing but Europe’s economy is about to be majorly wrecked. I am talking about the dissipation of much of the middle class.



What percentage of GDP of EU is made up of trade with Russia? very very small. Its like 174 billion Euro? out of a 15 trillion economy. My maths says that less than 1% of the GDP. Less than a fraction of 1% of EU economy. 

EU will be fine.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500817067880157185


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

The Ukro side are over-claiming things even if a bird falls down


----------



## coffee_cup

RescueRanger said:


> I'll withhold judgement until I see clear footage of this.



If I count the number of destroyed planes, helicopters, tanks and cars mentioned in Vergennes, Raptor22, Messerschmiit's posts, they are probably more than the Russian have total in their inventory, :- D



thetutle said:


> What percentage of GDP of EU is made up of trade with Russia? very very small. Its like 174 billion Euro? out of a 15 trillion economy. My maths says that less than 1% of the GDP. Less than a fraction of 1% of EU economy.
> 
> EU will be fine.



Dude, the diesel prices have jumped to 2 EUR a liter in Germany, gas prices have reached their historical highs. The whole auto industry is in freefall because Aluminum, wood and other raw material is not coming from Russia. The DAX has lost about 2000 points in the past week.

Inflation jumps up whenever a slight price hike comes in the oil/gas prices and here we are talking about historical hikes.

And you think it will not impact the EU economy? The biggest economy in EU completely disagrees.

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## Primus

A quick TLDR as to whats happening so far in this war


Ukraine is chatting mad shit regarding casualties inflicted and sustained

Russia is keeping relatively civil with its reportings (more civil than Ukraine) but still chatting shit

The fog of war still shrouds the truth regarding the outcome of this war

And SM is going full retard with people showing destroyed ukrainian military vehicles and personnel as Russian, and vice versa. Aka its full of shit.


Oh and f22 raptor is back after his ban, so round of applause for him. Unfortunately hes back to his old habits.

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## Ali_Baba

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500762038125088772



No proof at all of any of it ..

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## Patriot forever

This explains everything.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500782351831662592
Each and every piece is coming together.

This is going to end worse than WMD Iraq fiasco by senile pedos.

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## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> spot the differences .
> 
> Zalenski with his minister of defense , Putin with his . . .


Well what's your idea of antivax . To me seems zelenski and his minister are irresponsible people who don't even observe the basics

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## jamal18

thetutle said:


> Putin wanted neutrality and demilitarisation so he could invade with no casualties. Sorry, territorial expansion will cost them.


You've missed the point. If the Russians had neutrality and demilitarisation there would have been no invasion.

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## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> From bombing Syrians to bombing Ukrainian. ,Russian pilot taken prisoner :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


If you guys care about Syrian , that's called crocodiles tear

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## RescueRanger

Despite numerous discussions - The Hungarians have signed a decree refusing lethal aid shipments into Ukraine to pass through the Hungarian Border. 









PM Orban signs decree allowing deployment of NATO troops in western Hungary


Hungary allows NATO troops to be deployed in western Hungary and weapons shipments to cross its territory to other NATO member states, according to a decree signed by Prime Minister Viktor Orban and published in the official gazette on Monday.




www.reuters.com





---
Russia will STOP invasion if Ukraine agrees to the following demands:
- Constitutional amendment ruling out membership of any blocs (NATO)
- Ukraine must recognise CRIMEA as Russian and Donetsk and Lugansk as Independent states. 
Source: AP Wire
---
Pakistan's opposition leaders have labelled IK's statements re EU diplomats as "Dangerous"
---
Human traffickers are targeting Ukrainian women and children arriving in Berlin, pretending to offer them shelter. Source: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-n...-exploit-ukrainian-refugees-dark-side-exodus/
---
Ukraine FM confirmed that shipments of arms and ammunition are flowing into the country:
Source: Visegrad24
---
Former Ukranian President Yanukovych arrived in Minsk





---
Second round of talks between Russia and Ukraine end with no cease fire:


2nd round of talks between Russia and Ukraine end with no cease-fire


---
European markets eager for diplomatic solution with Russia. - Source: RationalFX








European markets eager for diplomatic solution with Russia — RationalFX


The euro is likely to remain bogged down until the tides turn toward a diplomatic solution, which should underpin USD strength in the interim.



www.rationalfx.com





---
Ukraine's president seeks international trade embargo on Russia:








Ukraine's president seeks international trade embargo on Russia


Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy called on Monday for new international sanctions against Russia over its invasion of Ukraine, proposing a boycott of Russian oil and other Russian exports and a halt of exports to Russia.




www.reuters.com

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Russia’s top diplomat will reportedly meet with his Ukrainian counterpart on Thursday in Turkey.


----------



## maverick1977

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500817067880157185


I am seeing this pic for the third time...

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## Hack-Hook

Oldman1 said:


> Well the problem with besieging a city is you have to have your forces all spread out around the city, it's not like a medieval castle or something like the Alamo where it only takes a few thousand troops and surround it on all sides. Cutting power and water is one way to do it. But as you have seen, the Russian forces are having a hard time just going around because there are Ukrainian units waiting for them there. And they can resupply and repair. I mean just look at Starlink satellites, try to cut off the internet, Ukrainians have satellite access internet. Who knows what else they can do...


You don't need to do that . You need several drones.


----------



## RescueRanger

Dow futures fall nearly 300 points as oil prices spike to multi-year high on Russia-Ukraine war - CNBC









Dow falls on fears Russia-Ukraine war will slow economy, raise inflation — CNBC


Stocks fell again on Monday as investors grew concerned higher energy prices stemming from the Russia-Ukraine conflict would slow the economy.




apple.news


----------



## Hack-Hook

Vergennes said:


> Russia annexes Crimea,invades and funds terrorists in eastern Ukraine yet ask why Ukraine is looking westward and do not trust the Russians anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry for forgetting once


Terrorists ? Interesting in western Ukraine the only terrorist I see is the ones who for seven year shelled villages and killed 14000 civilians

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## Wood

RescueRanger said:


> Despite numerous discussions - The Hungarians have signed a decree refusing lethal aid shipments into Ukraine to pass through the Hungarian Border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PM Orban signs decree allowing deployment of NATO troops in western Hungary
> 
> 
> Hungary allows NATO troops to be deployed in western Hungary and weapons shipments to cross its territory to other NATO member states, according to a decree signed by Prime Minister Viktor Orban and published in the official gazette on Monday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> Russia will STOP invasion if Ukraine agrees to the following demands:
> - Constitutional amendment ruling out membership of any blocs (NATO)
> - Ukraine must recognise CRIMEA as Russian and Donetsk and Lugansk as Independent states.
> Source: AP Wire
> ---
> Pakistan's opposition leaders have labelled IK's statements re EU diplomats as "Dangerous"
> ---
> Human traffickers are targeting Ukrainian women and children arriving in Berlin, pretending to offer them shelter. Source: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-n...-exploit-ukrainian-refugees-dark-side-exodus/
> ---
> Ukraine FM confirmed that shipments of arms and ammunition are flowing into the country:
> Source: Visegrad24
> ---
> Former Ukranian President Yanukovych arrived in Minsk
> View attachment 821635
> 
> 
> ---
> Second round of talks between Russia and Ukraine end with no cease fire:
> 
> 
> 2nd round of talks between Russia and Ukraine end with no cease-fire
> 
> 
> ---
> European markets eager for diplomatic solution with Russia. - Source: RationalFX
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> European markets eager for diplomatic solution with Russia — RationalFX
> 
> 
> The euro is likely to remain bogged down until the tides turn toward a diplomatic solution, which should underpin USD strength in the interim.
> 
> 
> 
> www.rationalfx.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> Ukraine's president seeks international trade embargo on Russia:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine's president seeks international trade embargo on Russia
> 
> 
> Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy called on Monday for new international sanctions against Russia over its invasion of Ukraine, proposing a boycott of Russian oil and other Russian exports and a halt of exports to Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com


So Russia does not want the de-weaponization and de-nazification anymore?! With a little bit more time, Putin may just want some assurances against Ukranians joining NATO

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500822396843999245


----------



## thetutle

coffee_cup said:


> If I count the number of destroyed planes, helicopters, tanks and cars mentioned in Vergennes, Raptor22, Messerschmiit's posts, they are probably more than the Russian have total in their inventory, :- D
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, the diesel prices have jumped to 2 EUR a liter in Germany, gas prices have reached their historical highs. The whole auto industry is in freefall because Aluminum, wood and other raw material is not coming from Russia. The DAX has lost about 2000 points in the past week.
> 
> Inflation jumps up whenever a slight price hike comes in the oil/gas prices and here we are talking about historical hikes.
> 
> And you think it will not impact the EU economy? The biggest economy in EU completely disagrees.


The biggest problem for EU economy will be high energy prices and hopefully it will make Germany restart those nuclear plants and coal plants. Some prices will rise, and people will deal with it.

Even if you are right, and the economy crashes. it will pale in significant to what would happen if Russian army came to the German border or any border. Or if the Russians actually occupy some European country. 

I have no doubt europeans would rather eat grass than be occupied by Russia. Because if Russia takes over we will be eating dirt, which is a lot worse than grass. 

So russia will be stopped here and the price to make that happen can be any price. It does not matter.


----------



## SIPRA

coffee_cup said:


> If I count the number of destroyed planes, helicopters, tanks and cars mentioned in Vergennes, Raptor22, Messerschmiit's posts, they are probably more than the Russian have total in their inventory, :- D

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## tower9

thetutle said:


> What percentage of GDP of EU is made up of trade with Russia? very very small. Its like 174 billion Euro? out of a 15 trillion economy. My maths says that less than 1% of the GDP. Less than a fraction of 1% of EU economy.
> 
> EU will be fine.


You think I was talking about trade? Man you people just don’t get it. Just watch how soaring energy and food costs that are coming will wreck the cost of living among the European middle class. Governments will not be able to reduce interest rates further either because inflation will be so high. How do you think all this will impact the expensive social safety nets that European countries boast about?


----------



## LeGenD

serenity said:


> American tanks are more well protected than Russian ones but also weak at the top, on the sides, from the back. I think they may fare a bit better but against Ukraine, not so much.
> 
> There is no comparison between Ukraine and Iraq. USA operated with air superiority and bombed those Iraqi cities and spared more resources to help ground forces. They can afford to in a way Russia simply cannot.
> 
> It's like asking a poor country to spend the same amount on an item as a rich country and purchase many thousands of that item for let's say a public good. The poor country realistically cannot afford to and must settle for cheaper item. The "cost" of that cheaper item is lower serviceability but that is the nature of being poorer. Russia cannot afford to shell this building because there is suspicious movement and activity within. USA bombed and shelled more liberally than Russia has for multiple reasons. Same for APS. Russia has APS but cannot afford to put them on every tank.
> 
> If it was USA in Russia's boots now but operating as USA, if they didn't bomb and shell any more than Russia has, I think their losses may not be so much better. Who knows. US tanks are better armored but a modern ATGM will go through M1A2's top, side, back armor just as much as it would a T-72. From the front and angled frontal shots, the M1 is a lot better. Then there are the APS systems and superior infantry equipment to support operations and to provide better situational awareness.
> 
> No doubt Russia is not as well equipped or anywhere near as rich. They prefer some old brute force military doctrines but I don't think US in that position would fare that much better. Iraq bombarded and shelled is not the same as Ukraine that has been less shelled and bombed than US preliminary strikes on Iraq.
> 
> I think Ukraine has always been considerably stronger than Iraq.


My friend,

I am not asserting that American tanks are impenetrable - I am simply pointing out that they are much better protected than Russian tanks.

For perspective:






Source: CIA records (declassified)

*NOTE:* M1 Armor Protection figures are BASELINE (without ERA tiles)





Source: fprado





Source: fprado

*NOTE:* M1 Armor Protection figures are BASELINE (without ERA tiles)

- - -

M1 Abrams tanks can also be equipped with ERA tiles:









U.S. Army M1 Abrams Tanks in Europe Are Getting Explosive Armor


Unfortunately, the Abrams Reactive Armor Tiles might not be the best solution for the threats at hand.




www.thedrive.com





- - -

M1 Abrams tanks received TUSK modifications for urban warfare:






Tank Urban Survival Kit (TUSK) | Military-Today.com


The invasion of Iraq in 2003 exposed vulnerability of the Abrams tanks to rocket propelled grenades and mines. These problems were partially resolved by fitting the tanks with the Tank Urban Survival Kit (TUSK).



www.military-today.com





- - -

M1 Abrams tanks also received Trophy APS to counter ATGMs:






TROPHY APS For M1 ABRAMS Delivered - European Security & Defence


The final TROPHY Active Protection Systems have been delivered in order to be fitted to the M1 ABRAMS MBTs of the US Army and Marines.




euro-sd.com













Army tanks are officially rocking a new active protection system in Europe


Photos released on July 10 ahead of the second phase of the Army's Defense Europe exercise show an M1 Abrams main battle tank rocking an Israeli-made Trophy Active Protection System (APS)




taskandpurpose.com





- - -

To say that American tanks may fare a bit better than Russian tanks is gross understatement.

M1 Abrams + TUSK + ERA tiles + Trophy APS = well-equipped for ATGMs and urban warfare in general.

- - -

There is no comparison between Ukraine and Iraq? According to what parameters? Ukraine isn't a military juggernaut.

Both Iraq and Syria presented considerable urban warfare challenges to invading forces. Iraqi insurgents used a combination of RPGs, IEDs and traps to confront American tanks in cities. ISIS introduced ATGMs and UAVs in the mix in later years. Insurgents use buildings for cover and to take up positions from where they can get good shot(s) at invading forces on the streets. Insurgents can subject a tank to a volley of RPGs from different directions.

If you think that ATGMs are deadly then you should check footage of Iraqi IEDs and how these items were used to devastating effect in different environments. IEDs claimed highest number of American lives across Iraq - imagine this.






Urban warfare can become messy and deadly anywhere in the world. Never assume otherwise.

Fallujah is a good example of how brutal urban warfare can become when insurgents have sufficient time to prepare and fortify the city. The battle in Fallujah reached the point of house-to-house fighting and the city could be cleared in two separate attempts (Operation Vigilant Resolve; Operation Phantom Fury). When the battle concluded, over 70% of the infrastructure of the city was in ruins.

- - -

How Russia can fight a war in conventional terms is inconsequential to how USA can fight a war in conventional terms when in the same boat. American forces have access to much superior technology and funding levels; Americans are much better equipped to fight conventional battles and/or execute Major Combat Operations accordingly.

The ongoing Russian military operation in Ukraine is largest in scale and scope since Afghanistan. Russian forces have suffered heavy losses in Ukraine in a span of only 11 days - this is due to substantial shortcomings in Russian technology and logistics in large part.

Now, let me clarify something:

*Few* countries have sufficient military strength and capacity to invade and occupy another country in modern times. Modern warfare methods and technologies increasingly favor the defending party in fact.

Russian military performance in Ukraine is indicative of the fact that how difficult it is to invade and occupy even a moderately large country in modern times. It is indicative of how other large armies in Asia will do on the ground when trying to invade and occupy another country.

USA is an outlier in this game.

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## Type59

thetutle said:


> What percentage of GDP of EU is made up of trade with Russia? very very small. Its like 174 billion Euro? out of a 15 trillion economy. My maths says that less than 1% of the GDP. Less than a fraction of 1% of EU economy.
> 
> EU will be fine.



To generate them GDP figures you need electricity and fuel.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500812687009267712

Russia is now backtracking due to how badly this is going for them

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## Dustom999

thetutle said:


> I have no doubt europeans would rather eat grass than be occupied by Russia.


That is just a way to put words in order to show Defiance. After a few slaps everyone starts saying "yes sir"
"Won't bow down" happens in Disney Ducktails, movies and daily soaps.


----------



## Vergennes

More than 20K volunteers (as of now) from all over the world are helping Ukraine in its struggle against the Russian invader.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500823486264131585


----------



## Dustom999

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500812687009267712
> 
> Russia is now backtracking due to how badly this is going for them


Ya sire! Because tweeter account says so!

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500828050421952519

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500809690619469826

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500804440722493442

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500821110606213129

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Messerschmitt

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500828876171317250


----------



## coffee_cup

RescueRanger said:


> Despite numerous discussions - The Hungarians have signed a decree refusing lethal aid shipments into Ukraine to pass through the Hungarian Border.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PM Orban signs decree allowing deployment of NATO troops in western Hungary
> 
> 
> Hungary allows NATO troops to be deployed in western Hungary and weapons shipments to cross its territory to other NATO member states, according to a decree signed by Prime Minister Viktor Orban and published in the official gazette on Monday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> Russia will STOP invasion if Ukraine agrees to the following demands:
> - Constitutional amendment ruling out membership of any blocs (NATO)
> - Ukraine must recognise CRIMEA as Russian and Donetsk and Lugansk as Independent states.
> Source: AP Wire
> ---
> Pakistan's opposition leaders have labelled IK's statements re EU diplomats as "Dangerous"
> ---
> Human traffickers are targeting Ukrainian women and children arriving in Berlin, pretending to offer them shelter. Source: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-n...-exploit-ukrainian-refugees-dark-side-exodus/
> ---
> Ukraine FM confirmed that shipments of arms and ammunition are flowing into the country:
> Source: Visegrad24
> ---
> Former Ukranian President Yanukovych arrived in Minsk
> View attachment 821635
> 
> 
> ---
> Second round of talks between Russia and Ukraine end with no cease fire:
> 
> 
> 2nd round of talks between Russia and Ukraine end with no cease-fire
> 
> 
> ---
> European markets eager for diplomatic solution with Russia. - Source: RationalFX
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> European markets eager for diplomatic solution with Russia — RationalFX
> 
> 
> The euro is likely to remain bogged down until the tides turn toward a diplomatic solution, which should underpin USD strength in the interim.
> 
> 
> 
> www.rationalfx.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> Ukraine's president seeks international trade embargo on Russia:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine's president seeks international trade embargo on Russia
> 
> 
> Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy called on Monday for new international sanctions against Russia over its invasion of Ukraine, proposing a boycott of Russian oil and other Russian exports and a halt of exports to Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com



Sensible thing to do.

British defence ministry has also ordered to report to service police those people who are going to Ukraine.

Poland has also rejected news that it will be supplying warplanes to Ukraine or allowing it to use her air strips.

I think, this is the right way to deescalate things. Sabre rattling is not advisable.

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## LeGenD

coffee_cup said:


> @LeGenD : I am wondering if it is ok to deliberately misspell the country leader in insulting ways? Not that it bothers me, but it would be nice to have clarity, :- )



I write names properly and advice other members to do the same.

I have noticed some members taking liberty in this respect, however. This should not be the norm in my view.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500828855531192322

Another Russian aircraft shot down


----------



## coffee_cup

thetutle said:


> The biggest problem for EU economy will be high energy prices and hopefully it will make Germany restart those nuclear plants and coal plants. Some prices will rise, and people will deal with it.
> 
> Even if you are right, and the economy crashes. it will pale in significant to what would happen if Russian army came to the German border or any border. Or if the Russians actually occupy some European country.
> 
> I have no doubt europeans would rather eat grass than be occupied by Russia. Because if Russia takes over we will be eating dirt, which is a lot worse than grass.
> 
> So russia will be stopped here and the price to make that happen can be any price. It does not matter.



Dont over dramatize it.

There is no way Russia can ever occupy Germany/France or other European countries without WW3 (in which case there wont be any winners anyway).

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500829731608051714

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500830095963049985

Abandoned and destroyed Russian equipment


----------



## Vapnope

RescueRanger said:


> I'll withhold judgement until I see clear footage of this.


Source: Trust me bro !

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500737195166121990


----------



## Dustom999

LeGenD said:


> My friend,
> 
> I am not asserting that American tanks are impenetrable - I am simply pointing out that they are much better protected than Russian tanks.
> 
> For perspective:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: CIA records (declassified)
> 
> *NOTE:* M1 Armor Protection figures are BASELINE (without ERA tiles)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: fprado
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: fprado
> 
> *NOTE:* M1 Armor Protection figures are BASELINE (without ERA tiles)
> 
> - - -
> 
> M1 Abrams tanks can also be equipped with ERA tiles:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. Army M1 Abrams Tanks in Europe Are Getting Explosive Armor
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, the Abrams Reactive Armor Tiles might not be the best solution for the threats at hand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - - -
> 
> M1 Abrams tanks received TUSK modifications for urban warfare:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank Urban Survival Kit (TUSK) | Military-Today.com
> 
> 
> The invasion of Iraq in 2003 exposed vulnerability of the Abrams tanks to rocket propelled grenades and mines. These problems were partially resolved by fitting the tanks with the Tank Urban Survival Kit (TUSK).
> 
> 
> 
> www.military-today.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - - -
> 
> M1 Abrams tanks also received Trophy APS to counter ATGMs:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TROPHY APS For M1 ABRAMS Delivered - European Security & Defence
> 
> 
> The final TROPHY Active Protection Systems have been delivered in order to be fitted to the M1 ABRAMS MBTs of the US Army and Marines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> euro-sd.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Army tanks are officially rocking a new active protection system in Europe
> 
> 
> Photos released on July 10 ahead of the second phase of the Army's Defense Europe exercise show an M1 Abrams main battle tank rocking an Israeli-made Trophy Active Protection System (APS)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> taskandpurpose.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - - -
> 
> To say that American tanks may fare a bit better than Russian tanks is gross understatement.
> 
> M1 Abrams + TUSK + ERA tiles + Trophy APS = well-equipped for ATGMs and urban warfare in general.
> 
> - - -
> 
> There is no comparison between Ukraine and Iraq? According to what parameters? Ukraine isn't a military juggernaut.
> 
> Both Iraq and Syria presented considerable urban warfare challenges to invading forces. Iraqi insurgents used a combination of RPGs, IEDs and traps to confront American tanks in cities. ISIS introduced ATGMs and UAVs in the mix in later years. Insurgents use buildings for cover and to take up positions from where they can get good shot(s) at invading forces on the streets. Insurgents can subject a tank to a volley of RPGs from different directions.
> 
> If you think that ATGMs are deadly then you should check footage of Iraqi IEDs and how these items were used to devastating effect in different environments. IEDs claimed highest number of American lives across Iraq - imagine this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Urban warfare can become messy and deadly anywhere in the world. Never assume otherwise.
> 
> Fallujah is a good example of how brutal urban warfare can become when insurgents have sufficient time to prepare and fortify the city. The battle in Fallujah reached the point of house-to-house fighting and the city could be cleared in two separate attempts (Operation Vigilant Resolve; Operation Phantom Fury). When the battle concluded, over 70% of the infrastructure of the city was in ruins.
> 
> - - -
> 
> How Russia can fight a war in conventional terms is inconsequential to how USA can fight a war in conventional terms when in the same boat. American forces have access to much superior technology and funding levels; Americans are much better equipped to fight conventional battles and/or execute Major Combat Operations accordingly.
> 
> The ongoing Russian military operation in Ukraine is largest in scale and scope since Afghanistan. Russian forces have suffered heavy losses in Ukraine in a span of only 11 days - this is due to substantial shortcomings in Russian technology and logistics in large part.
> 
> Now, let me clarify something:
> 
> *Few* countries have sufficient military strength and capacity to invade and occupy another country in modern times. Modern warfare methods and technologies increasingly favor the defending party in fact.
> 
> Russian military performance in Ukraine is indicative of the fact that how difficult it is to invade and occupy even a moderately large country in modern times. It is indicative of how other large armies in Asia will do on the ground when trying to invade and occupy another country.
> 
> USA is an outlier in this game.





Vergennes said:


> More than 20K volunteers (as of now) from all over the world are helping Ukraine in its struggle against the Russian invader.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500823486264131585


Rightwingers from world over have been attracted by explosion of azov battalion popularity on social media in past years. Like it did for ISIS, Doesn't mean a cent in context of war between two 21st century countries. Yes they will inflict casualties, but without a states backing will probably bleed out in a back alley.

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## coffee_cup

LeGenD said:


> I write names properly and advice other members to do the same.
> 
> I have noticed some members taking liberty in this respect, however. This should not be the norm in my view.



Very diplomatic bro, I nominate you to replace Munir Akram in the UN. :- D

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## thetutle

Dustom999 said:


> That is just a way to put words in order to show Defiance. After a few slaps everyone starts saying "yes sir"
> "Won't bow down" happens in Disney Ducktails, movies and daily soaps.



Really? what do you think we had the Cold War about? And the west won, and freed Europe. Or most of it. 

Now we have Ukraine, Belarus and Russia to go.

You are seriously deluded if you think europeans will allow Russia troops to conquer them. Not only will that not happen, but there is no scenario in which Russia will be able to stay in Ukraine either. 

Not even Serbia will allow Russian troops there. They are crazy, but not that crazy.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500832001095516162

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## Type59

Donbass separatists are expanding control. A militia member admitted facing unexpected heavy resistance. Putin needs to funnel more men and material to these groups because they more ideologically committed then average Russian army conscript.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500678676920291335

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500678678333865987

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500678679579537414
Former General in US Army Europe

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## coffee_cup

Vergennes said:


> More than 20K volunteers (as of now) from all over the world are helping Ukraine in its struggle against the Russian invader.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500823486264131585



And meanwhile your own country France is checking every bus/train leaving towards the border to make sure there is no extremist nutcases who are going to take part in the Ukraine war.

UK, Germany are doing the same.

This is called pragmatism, eh?

And you my friend can keep living in a parallel univers by creating an alternate reality, :- )

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## Vapnope

@jhungary hey man.

Would like to read your take on Russian war plan and where did it go wrong as per your opinion. Thanks in advance.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500804476306866176

Looks likely that Ukraine successfully hit this Russian war ship

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## coffee_cup

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500821110606213129



Have they found and destroyed the "Red October" as well?


----------



## SIPRA

Vapnope said:


> @jhungary hey man.
> 
> Would like to read your take on Russian war plan and where did it go wrong as per your opinion. Thanks in advance.



Mujhay tau yeh @jhungary faarigh qisam ka banda lagta hae.

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## LeGenD

Poland Still Isn't Interested In Transferring Its MiG-29s To Ukraine


The U.S. is actively pushing for the transfer but Poland still says it won't give its MiG-29s to Ukraine.




www.thedrive.com





Uncle Sam to Poland:







_"Give your Migs to Ukraine."_

Poland to Uncle Sam:






_"These are my toys, I don't want to." (Uaaan Uaaan)_

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500812227867197445
That M240 with that scope though!!


----------



## Dustom999

thetutle said:


> Really? what do you think we had the Cold War about? And the west won, and freed Europe.
> 
> Now we have Ukraine, Belarus and Russia to go.
> 
> You are seriously deluded if you think europeans will allow Russia troops to conquer





thetutle said:


> You are seriously deluded if you think europeans will allow Russia troops to conquer


Just like they did allow Germans to conquer! But why did they allow germans to conquer? Because Then germans slapped them and asked them if they want to say " Yes sir" Until Russians stopped the germans. 
Mankind is probably 60000-150000 year old! How many people claiming they haven't allowed conquest are alive! None! 
Shit Happens! Like it happened to USA in Afghanistan


----------



## coffee_cup

Vapnope said:


> @jhungary hey man.
> 
> Would like to read your take on Russian war plan and where did it go wrong as per your opinion. Thanks in advance.



Seriously bro?

Are you trolling him or us with that? LOL.


----------



## thetutle

coffee_cup said:


> Dont over dramatize it.
> 
> There is no way Russia can ever occupy Germany/France or other European countries without WW3 (in which case there wont be any winners anyway).


yes, well then thats fine. if they stay in Russia its no problem.


----------



## Dustom999

coffee_cup said:


> And meanwhile your own country France.


It's most probably my country India not france.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500816355846766596

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500819143829987333


----------



## Meengla

RescueRanger said:


> Russia will STOP invasion if Ukraine agrees to the following demands:
> - Constitutional amendment ruling out membership of any blocs (NATO)
> - Ukraine must recognise CRIMEA as Russian and Donetsk and Lugansk as Independent states.





Wood said:


> So Russia does not want the de-weaponization and de-nazification anymore?! With a little bit more time, Putin may just want some assurances against Ukranians joining NATO



Ukraine will not accept ceding territory but a ceasefire should be coming along those lines. Once Putin is gone, Russia, from the west of the Urals, will become part of Europe. Let time take care of all this. Stop the killing.

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## I.R.A

Dustom999 said:


> Rightwingers from world over have been attracted by explosion of azov battalion popularity on social media in past years. Like it did for ISIS, Doesn't mean a cent in context of war between two 21st century countries. Yes they will inflict casualties, but without a states backing will probably bleed out in a back alley.



The worst thing to do would be inviting mercenaries to your own country and asking them to fight your war. Once these foreigners start pouring in then this conflict can take any shape and any form. There are some really serious doomsday prophecies which people believe and this can be a perfect start to it.

Russia may have suffered casualties and destroyed equipment, but her citizens and infrastructure are safe. Ukrainians either throw their president out or start fighting themselves. They need to understand it is only them who are suffering and will suffer if this conflict doesn't end soon, the others are just betting like they do on a horse race.

--------------------------------------------

Russia has been planning all this for a very long time, they must considered many options, scenarios and outcomes and changing strategies ........... would they have also tried heavy infiltration and bought sell outs? Whatever they are doing doesn't make any clear sense as of yet. Suppose they are successful in overthrowing current Ukrainian govt. setup who are they going to install?

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## Wood

After the debacle in Afghanistan, Biden badly needed a pick me up. Putin has just offered it to him in a platter.

US congress is more united on this than they have been on anything else. American leadership is once again not just accepted but expected by EU. Soon Fox news may start calling Biden as President 

Biden approval ratings is up and north of 50% for the first time in a long time

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500823051872657416

More Russian armor slaughtered


----------



## sammuel

Hack-Hook said:


> If you guys care about Syrian , that's called crocodiles tear



Why ? did you rejoice when Assad barrel bombed civilians ?

Fact is that while many are shocked about what is happen in Ukraine now , it does not come close to what happened in Syria. half a million dead , more than 5 millions refugees whole cities destroyed.

Hey but that was Just a dictator killing his own people , does that make it ok ?

Fact is that Putin planes bombed cities mercilessly in Syria on a daily bases , otherwise Assad would have lost , and now it seems his pilots are going to do the same in Ukraine.


~


----------



## Wood

Meengla said:


> Ukraine will not accept ceding territory but a ceasefire should be coming along those lines. Once Putin is gone, Russia, from the west of the Urals, will become part of Europe. Let time take care of all this. Stop the killing.


Both superpowers US and Russia/SU do not learn after repeated failures. Invasion and occupation of territory in areas where their enemies are likely to funnel weapons indefinitely is a no win scenario. Better to cut the losses and run away, but they don't learn this at all.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500836098343329796

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500836098343329796




The Russians are losing armor and equipment at an absurd rate.

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## Dustom999

I.R.A said:


> Russia has been planning all this for a very long time, they must considered many options, scenarios and outcomes and changing strategies ........... would they have also tried heavy infiltration and bought sell outs? Whatever they are doing doesn't make any clear sense as of yet. Suppose they are successful in overthrowing current Ukrainian govt. setup who are they going to install?


They are going to install a protectorate government covered by Russian troops there by increasing Russia in size.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500821682503749633

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500833012552015876

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## dBSPL

Ukraine should recognize Crimea as part of Russia, recognize the independence of Donetsk and Luhansk, amend the constitution and abandon claims to join "any bloc" - Kremlin spokesman Peskov

I think these are insufficient. Russia should have requested the abolition of the elections in Ukraine and the authority to appoint a governor also.

(Russia is looking for a honorable way out from full invasion attempt. But it still puts forward unacceptable conditions.)

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## maverick1977

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians are losing armor and equipment at an absurd rate.



Please quantify, share the day to day loss increase, and the rate of this failure and input of new machinery, so we can conclude the downfall of Mother Russia..


----------



## Ashesh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500826641400045571


----------



## I.R.A

Dustom999 said:


> They are going to install a protectorate government covered by Russian troops there by increasing Russia in size.



That doesn't help them buy local Ukrainian loyalty and goodwill. Ukraine needs to have a Ukrainian solution.


----------



## Dustom999

I.R.A said:


> That doesn't help them buy local Ukrainian loyalty and goodwill. Ukraine needs to have a Ukrainian solution.


I think u missed the part of getting slapped repeatedly! Everyone complies, some sooner some later!
Loyalty is over rated , compliance will do!


----------



## thetutle

dBSPL said:


> Ukraine should recognize Crimea as part of Russia, recognize the independence of Donetsk and Luhansk, amend the constitution and abandon claims to join "any bloc" - Kremlin spokesman Peskov
> 
> I think these are insufficient. Russia should have requested the abolition of the elections in Ukraine and the authority to appoint a governor also.
> 
> (Russia is looking for a honorable way out from full invasion attempt. But it still puts forward unacceptable conditions.)



Put Putin on the new ukranian flag? 

This is way to early to think Russia wants out. It will take 3 or 4 moths of Russia having these losses and not advancing before they would even consider such a thing. 

If Ukraine is not occupied totally in 2 months, I think it is the biggest underdog win for a long time.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500473931836407813

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500793598299807746

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> You will know when one of those Ukrainian farmer is towing it to their farm......and an ad the next day.
> 
> "*Brand New Armata, never been fired only towed once*."


 
Tanks get blown up. APS, no APS makes no difference if you are being fired on by a squad of RPG men.

It will be a significant propaganda coup if Russians will let it get destroyed, and photographed.


----------



## AsianLion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500841133274189833

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## Patriot forever

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500840439594856453
😂😂

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## Dustom999

maverick1977 said:


> Please quantify, share the day to day loss increase, and the rate of this failure and input of new machinery, so we can conclude the downfall of Mother Russia..


If and when Russia is at a breaking point, China will help. Not because China loves Russia, but because they have a common enemy . 
China's politics can easily spin this as western hypocrisy, western terrorism et all. 
If China dives into this fight, europe will be China's whore not Russia's. China has the numbers to match, China has industrial might and for the record China now has technological might as well. 
Being an Indian, I hope this settles within europe. 
Also, of nato gets involved and Russia starts losing, they will use tactical nukes. That is a given. Even if Russia uses tactical nukes on battlefield, no one will dare send an icbm to Kremlin. Because everyone knows after that only the martians survive!

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500837036055580672

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## AsianLion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500799855022821382

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500823610688217091
On top of the 17,000 antitank weapons, 2,000 Stingers have been delivered

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## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> Why ? did you rejoice when Assad barrel bombed civilians ?
> 
> Fact is that Putin planes bombed cities mercilessly in Syria on a daily bases , otherwise Assad would have lost , and now it seems his pilots are going to do the same in Ukraine.
> 
> ~


Putin planes didn't use barrel bombs


----------



## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500823610688217091
> On top of the 17,000 antitank weapons, 2,000 Stingers have been delivered


Heard congress will approve another 10 billion dollar worth of arms this week. 

That should definitely help.

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## coffee_cup

Patriot forever said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500840439594856453
> 😂😂



Whereas @Vergennes spends his energies finding some destroyed tanks (real or not), Germany and other European countries who are net payers to EU are more realistic, :- )

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500831304996343817

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500832659479699462


----------



## Paul2

Have anybody noticed how easy Russian light forces melt?

The exception are DPR, LPR guerillas, who seem to be well adapted for combat with minimal hardware.

Ukraine needs to crush them first to win, and move the line.

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## Vapnope

coffee_cup said:


> Seriously bro?
> 
> Are you trolling him or us with that? LOL.


It won't hurt to have his views how he thinks Russia failed to impress West by execution. No?

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## coffee_cup

Vapnope said:


> It won't hurt to have his views how he thinks Russia failed to impress West by execution. No?



Well if you want to have a collection of random copy/paste texts and reminders of how he has served everywhere in the universe, sure. Why not, ;-)

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500759177454628864


----------



## sammuel

Hack-Hook said:


> Putin planes didn't use barrel bombs



No Assad did . But Putin planes had a lot more fire power than Assad had .


----------



## Dustom999

coffee_cup said:


> Well if you want to have a collection of random copy/paste texts and reminders of how he has served everywhere in the universe, sure. Why not, ;-)


Only galaxy force- defender of the galaxy is pending! It's a government office, file will pass eventually m


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500757448407371779

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## Vapnope

coffee_cup said:


> Well if you want to have a collection of random copy/paste texts and reminders of how he has served everywhere in the universe, sure. Why not, ;-)


No. His own work. He posted a good thread before he left PDF but i cant seem to find that thread now.

Found it,
Thread 'Jhungary on Warfare - Part 1 Principles of War' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/jhungary-on-warfare-part-1-principles-of-war.432599/


----------



## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> No Assad did . But Putin planes had a lot more fire power than Assad had .


they were used against militant not civilians ,

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500845770009890816

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500845074711822339


----------



## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500845074711822339





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500845804252278794


----------



## coffee_cup

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498673498633478158

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500774542670811136


----------



## AsianLion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500795472172232704

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## Microsoft

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500845074711822339



Trading cities and entire provinces for some broken down tanks and trucks. Seems fair. All going pretty good for the Ukrainian army.

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## Dustom999

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500845804252278794


550 Sukhoi shot down over ukrain! 
But
Did ukrain breakout of stranglehold this Boa constrictor? Naaah! Is any one willing to help this puppy out of boa constrictors grasp! Yup sure, we will give adrenaline shots to Ukraine, but wont fight! Cuz you know if our white kids get killed, people are gonna ask questions!


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## SIPRA

AsianLion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500795472172232704



Yeh sub loag, Ukraine ko "chuk chuka" kay marwa rahay haen.

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## RescueRanger

UK rejects opening borders to Ukraine refugees -​
But this makes sense since the UK is no longer an EU member state and part of the current government's political mantra has been immigration control.

Still stinks that they are not willing to accept refugees.









UK refuses to drop visa requirement for Ukraine refugees


Prime Minister Boris Johnson rejected calls on Monday for Britain to ease visa requirements for Ukrainian refugees fleeing conflict, saying Britain was a generous country but it needed to maintain checks on who was arriving.




www.reuters.com





_Edited: Source added. _


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500852154269147136

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## coffee_cup

RescueRanger said:


> UK rejects opening borders to Ukraine refugees -​
> But this makes sense since the UK is no longer an EU member state and part of the current government's political mantra has been immigration control.
> 
> Still stinks that they are not willing to accept refugees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UK refuses to drop visa requirement for Ukraine refugees
> 
> 
> Prime Minister Boris Johnson rejected calls on Monday for Britain to ease visa requirements for Ukrainian refugees fleeing conflict, saying Britain was a generous country but it needed to maintain checks on who was arriving.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Edited: Source added. _
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500852154269147136



ouch.... reality check!

Whereas Zelensky's account gets puffy with gold, the ordinary Ukrainian will have to pay the price for following anglo-saxon hyenas!

Germany has taken more than 50k refugees so far and Germany is the one who is getting the most criticism. Unbelievable, those British cunning foxes!

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## Dustom999

RescueRanger said:


> UK rejects opening borders to Ukraine refugees -​
> But this makes sense since the UK is no longer an EU member state and part of the current government's political mantra has been immigration control.
> 
> Still stinks that they are not willing to accept refugees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UK refuses to drop visa requirement for Ukraine refugees
> 
> 
> Prime Minister Boris Johnson rejected calls on Monday for Britain to ease visa requirements for Ukrainian refugees fleeing conflict, saying Britain was a generous country but it needed to maintain checks on who was arriving.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Edited: Source added. _
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500852154269147136


Ukrain like a good baby is going to bow down! Say " Yes sir" And European theatre will change for ever! 
One party (USA) politics is over.

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## RescueRanger

More than 1.8 Million Ukrainians have been displaced as a result of fighting in Ukraine. #UNHCR


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500783803639422977

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## Primus

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500845074711822339


T80U is Ukrainian. Not russian. Note the colours and also lack of markings on both Uragaan and T80U.

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## Wood

RescueRanger said:


> More than 1.8 Million Ukrainians have been displaced as a result of fighting in Ukraine. #UNHCR
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500783803639422977


By the time this is over, we can expect to see the refugee count at 10 million. Europeans are not going to put any kind of restriction on people who are culturally/racially synonymous with them.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500853916514328579


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## Dustom999

RescueRanger said:


> UK rejects opening borders to Ukraine refugees -​
> But this makes sense since the UK is no longer an EU member state and part of the current government's political mantra has been immigration control.
> 
> Still stinks that they are not willing to accept refugees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UK refuses to drop visa requirement for Ukraine refugees
> 
> 
> Prime Minister Boris Johnson rejected calls on Monday for Britain to ease visa requirements for Ukrainian refugees fleeing conflict, saying Britain was a generous country but it needed to maintain checks on who was arriving.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Edited: Source added. _
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500852154269147136


Ukrain like a good baby is going to bow down! Say " Yes sir" And European theatre will change for ever!
One party (USA) politics is over.


Huffal said:


> T80U is Ukrainian. Not russian. Note the colours and also lack of markings on both Uragaan and T80U.


they are just trying to keep the morale up! Let them! If u have seen yesteryear right wing popaganda


----------



## Primus

Dustom999 said:


> Ukrain like a good baby is going to bow down! Say " Yes sir" And European theatre will change for ever!
> One party (USA) politics is over.
> 
> they are just trying to keep the morale up! Let them! If u have seen yesteryear right wing popaganda


Its annoying as hell, but what can you expect during war. Truth is the first casualty.


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## SIPRA

RescueRanger said:


> More than 1.8 Million Ukrainians have been displaced as a result of fighting in Ukraine. #UNHCR
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500783803639422977



Are all or most of these refugees from east of Ukraine, or also from western parts?

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## reflecthofgeismar

LeGenD said:


> The MIGHTY Russian Armata MBT spotted anywhere?


Shoigu and Gerasimov argue over whose Praetorian Guard will get them first...


LeGenD said:


> Poland Still Isn't Interested In Transferring Its MiG-29s To Ukraine
> 
> 
> The U.S. is actively pushing for the transfer but Poland still says it won't give its MiG-29s to Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncle Sam to Poland:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _"Give your Migs to Ukraine."_
> 
> Poland to Uncle Sam:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _"These are my toys, I don't want to." (Uaaan Uaaan)_


Maybe u will recieve F-16 for them.


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## RescueRanger

A dear friend's son has returned from Ukraine where he was studying for his MBBS - after being evacuated via Poland. His account is very sad to hear. 

There was a lot of kindness from ordinary people in both Ukraine and Poland but he recounts blatant racism during the journey out of Ukraine, at one point a contingent of Nigerian, Indian and Pakistani students were detained by Ukrainian forces and told "You will stay - we will give you a gun and you will have to fight". 

They were forced to take shelter in a hostel in Sumy and made their way on foot in the cover of darkness and were helped by a local lecturer who negotiated safe passage for them "on foot". He says he did see a lot of people laying in the side of the road camped, some were clearly dead from hypothermia. 

When arriving at Poland/Ukranian border control at Shehyni they were corralled by Polish security forces in a fenced area and had to spend the night in -15* whilst the Polish prioritised the processing of Ukrainian nationals. 

The intervention of the Polish government officials from Krakow allowed them to proceed into Poland in a government vehicle. 
---

_At this point as a Pakistani I would like to if I could shake the hand of the Ukrainian lecturer and Polish officials who helped our people get to safety. _

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## Vergennes

Huffal said:


> T80U is Ukrainian. Not russian. Note the colours and also lack of markings on both Uragaan and T80U.



Russian army T80U. BTW nowadays most Ukrainian tanks harbor the pixelized camos

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## thetutle

NY Times article:


_On a snowy tarmac at Amari Air Base in northern Estonia on Sunday morning, pallets of rifles, ammunition and other weapons were being loaded onto one of the largest cargo planes in the world, an Antonov AN-124, belonging to the Ukrainian air force. It is an artifact of the Cold War, built and purchased when Ukraine was still part of the Soviet Union.

Now it is being turned back against the Russian invasion of Ukraine,part of a vast airlift that American and European officials describe as a desperate race against time, to get tons of arms into the hands of Ukrainian forces while their supply routes are still open. Scenes like this, reminiscent of the Berlin airlift — the famed race by the Western allies to keep West Berlin supplied with essentials in 1948 and 1949 as the Soviet Union sought to choke it off — are playing out across Europe.

In less than a week, the United States and NATO have pushed more than 17,000 antitank weapons, including Javelin missiles, over the borders of Poland and Romania, unloading them from giant military cargo planes so they can make the trip by land to Kyiv, the Ukrainian capital, and other major cities. So far, Russian forces have been so preoccupied in other parts of the country that they have not targeted the arms supply lines, but few think that can last.
--

In Washington and Germany, intelligence officials race to merge satellite photographs with electronic intercepts of Russian military units, strip them of hints of how they were gathered, and beam them to Ukrainian military units within an hour or two.

--

On Saturday, while Mr. Biden was in Wilmington, Del., his National Security Council staff spent much of the day trying to find a way for Poland to transfer to Ukraine a fleet of well-used, Soviet-made MIG-29 fighter jets that Ukrainian pilots know how to fly. But the deal is contingent on giving Poland, in return, far more capable, American-made F-16s, an operation made more complicated by the fact that many of those fighters are promised to Taiwan — where the United States has greater strategic interests.

“I can’t speak to a timeline, but I can just tell you that we’re looking at it very, very actively,” Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken said on Sunday, during a trip that has taken him to Moldova, another non-NATO country that American officials fear may be next on Russian President Vladimir V. Putin’s hit list of nations to bring back into Moscow’s sphere of influence.

---
U.S. officials say Ukrainian leaders have told them that American and other allied weaponry is making a difference on the battlefield. Ukrainian soldiers armed with shoulder-fired Javelin anti-tank missiles have several times in the past week attacked a mileslong convoy of Russian armor and supply trucks, helping stall the Russian ground advance as it bears down on Kyiv, Pentagon officials said. Some of the vehicles are being abandoned, officials said, because Russian troops fear sitting in the convoy when fuel-supply tanks are being targeted by the Ukrainians, setting off fireballs_

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## RescueRanger

SIPRA said:


> Are all or most of these refugees from east of Ukraine, or also from western parts?


I don't have full information about that, but I'll check the UNHCR website to see if they have a detailed breakdown.

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## SIPRA

Apparently, proper resolution, of this conflict, seems to be surrender of the Ukrainian forces.

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## Primus

Vergennes said:


> Russian army T80U. BTW nowadays most Ukrainian tanks harbor the pixelized camos
> 
> View attachment 821671
> 
> View attachment 821670


This is a UKR T80U/UD

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500822253113651200

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## coffee_cup

RescueRanger said:


> A dear friend's son has returned from Ukraine where he was studying for his MBBS - after being evacuated via Poland. His account is very sad to hear.
> 
> There was a lot of kindness from ordinary people in both Ukraine and Poland but he recounts blatant racism during the journey out of Ukraine, at one point a contingent of Nigerian, Indian and Pakistani students were detained by Ukrainian forces and told "You will stay - we will give you a gun and you will have to fight".
> 
> They were forced to take shelter in a hostel in Sumy and made their way on foot in the cover of darkness and were helped by a local lecturer who negotiated safe passage for them "on foot". He says he did see a lot of people laying in the side of the road camped, some were clearly dead from hypothermia.
> 
> When arriving at Poland/Ukranian border control at Shehyni they were corralled by Polish security forces in a fenced area and had to spend the night in -15* whilst the Polish prioritised the processing of Ukrainian nationals.
> 
> The intervention of the Polish government officials from Krakow allowed them to proceed into Poland in a government vehicle.
> ---
> 
> _At this point as a Pakistani I would like to if I could shake the hand of the Ukrainian lecturer and Polish officials who helped our people get to safety. _



The ordinary people have never been a problem.
It is those Neo-Nazis with the guns who have created all the trouble in the first place.

On a side note:
This is so sad to see how we are treated abroad, only because those stupid imposed leaders on us sitting with their fat arses in London, wont give a damn about a normal citizen.

Only if we could have half decent rulers instead of these idiots who think they have some sort of inherited right to rule us!

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500839283346874370


----------



## Avicenna

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500822253113651200



It's muppets like this that have caused this war in the first place.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500857039551139848

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500857469442183175

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500860135845113865

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500858770825568264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500859356149166084

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## LeGenD

Avicenna said:


> It's muppets like this that have caused this war in the first place.


Blame everybody else but Russia, right?

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## F-22Raptor

Avicenna said:


> It's muppets like this that have caused this war in the first place.




This war has been a humiliation for Russia and Putin. We're not even 2 weeks in and Russia has lost nearly 1,000 pieces of armor, aircraft, and equipment. The Russian economy has been rendered to third world status and Russia is being recognized as a pariah state. 

A complete disaster for Putin.

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## Avicenna

LeGenD said:


> Blame everybody else but Russia, right?



Again look at the origins of this conflict and not the pretty little narrative constructed by Western sources.

Common sense.

What would the US do if China set up shop in Mexico?

Hell, there was a time the US claimed the entire Western hemisphere as its domain.

War is regrettable.

But Russia has her interests too.

Let's try to be objective.

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## White privilege

HydNizam said:


> Fooling Indians since 2014
> View attachment 821252


I thought his _56" male boobies _would do the rescue...!!😁🤣


----------



## F-22Raptor

Avicenna said:


> Again look at the origins of this conflict and not the pretty little narrative constructed by Western sources.
> 
> Common sense.
> 
> What would the US do if China set up shop in Mexico?
> 
> Hell, there was a time the US claimed the entire Western hemisphere as its domain.
> 
> War is regrettable.
> 
> But Russia has her interests too.
> 
> Let's try to be objective.




Ukraine is a sovereign state that has every right to choose its own future. They want no part of Russian oppression and backwardness.

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## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> This war has been a humiliation for Russia and Putin. We're not even 2 weeks in and Russia has lost nearly 1,000 pieces of armor, aircraft, and equipment. The Russian economy has been rendered to third world status and Russia is being recognized as a pariah state, according to Ukraine
> 
> A complete disaster for Putin. Majority of these claims are unverified



Fixed it for you 😉👍

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500861622360936457


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Chechens marching on Kiev 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500862098452193283

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## Avicenna

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraine is a sovereign state that has every right to choose its own future. They want no part of Russian oppression and backwardness.



Right.

And Iran has every right to choose ITS own future.

Yet all the cries from Washington about regime change.

For that matter, the great failed experiment that was the second Iraq war:

An attempt to reshape the middle east with liberal democratic values.

Which resulted in millions killed or injured.

Selective about principles eh?

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## Dustom999

Where is our super commando dhruv today? 


Avicenna said:


> Again look at the origins of this conflict and not the pretty little narrative constructed by Western sources.
> 
> Common sense.
> 
> What would the US do if China set up shop in Mexico?
> 
> Hell, there was a time the US claimed the entire Western hemisphere as its domain.
> 
> War is regrettable.
> 
> But Russia has her interests too.
> 
> Let's try to be objective.


Us wouldn't do shit except arming insurgency! That's what they know how to do . But then they are limited. 
If Russia, india, Pakistan etc used tactical nuke, usa will be absent that day! No show.


----------



## coffee_cup

F-22Raptor said:


> This war has been a humiliation for Russia and Putin. We're not even 2 weeks in and Russia has lost nearly 1,000 pieces of armor, aircraft, and equipment. The Russian economy has been rendered to third world status and Russia is being recognized as a pariah state.
> 
> A complete disaster for Putin.



Man, if you keep adding those numbers, soon they are gonna surpas what Russia could possibly have in her inventory.

I would suggest going easy on the numbers, make it look a bit more believable.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500862766520971267

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500863256528883718

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500863503715999745


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## F-22Raptor

Huffal said:


> Fixed it for you 😉👍




https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html


Its verified here. A minimum of 870 equipment losses for Russia. This is visually VERIFIED. That means losses are likely higher for Russia. 

He also documents Ukrainian losses as well.

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## LeGenD

Huffal said:


> Fixed it for you 😉👍



Russian equipment losses count = 870 in 11 days









Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine







www.oryxspioenkop.com





Russian economy is in trouble as well:






A Complete Summary Of All Russia Sanctions And Developments | ZeroHedge


ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




www.zerohedge.com













Next G7 sanctions should hit Russian oligarchs: minister


FRANKFURT: The next round of G7 sanctions against Russia over its invasion of Ukraine should hit those oligarchs who...



www.brecorder.com













Russian economy to contract by 7% in 2022, to continue to decline in 2023, ruble weakening to accelerate inflation - Moody's







en.trend.az













Russian economy will be decimated by western sanctions, JP Morgan predicts


GDP could fall by 11pc in a recession comparable to the 1998 financial crisis




www.telegraph.co.uk













The West can endure an oil embargo: Putin can't


Venezuela and Iran are now the lesser evils in the effort to dismantle the Kremlin war machine




www.telegraph.co.uk













Analysis: Chinese banks scramble for 'workarounds' as Russia sanctions impinge


Top Chinese banks are rushing to ensure they can maintain business ties with Russian clients without running afoul of a barrage of Western sanctions, people with knowledge of the matter told Reuters.




www.reuters.com













2 China-based development banks have opted to suspend business with Russia


The Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank said it aims to "safeguard" its financial integrity, potentially creating friction between Russia and China.




www.businessinsider.com





Meanwhile:



Thousands arrested during anti-war protests in Russia, authorities say











20,000 foreign volunteers in Ukraine ‘to join fight against Russia’


Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba told US broadcaster CNN: ‘When people saw that Ukrainians are fighting, that Ukrainians are not giving up, many felt motivated to join the fight.’




www.scmp.com





This war did not turn out well for Russia .

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## Vergennes

lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500832256058875909

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## F-22Raptor

coffee_cup said:


> Man, if you keep adding those numbers, soon they are gonna surpas what Russia could possibly have in her inventory.
> 
> I would suggest going easy on the numbers, make it look a bit more believable.



Russia has 870 VISUALLY VERIFIED losses.

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## Vergennes




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## Windjammer



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## F-22Raptor

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500862766520971267




These maps are misleading and inaccurate. Russia does not control all that territory. Maybe some roads, but much of those areas are still contested. Russia has only captured one major city.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Vergennes said:


> View attachment 821680



Honestly speaking the Russian MOD map is incorrect and so is the heavily biased Western or UKRO side maps but quite frankly the Aljazeera maps are the correct assessement of this conflict which is a rare feat seeing Aljazeera of all people get something correct for once their lifetime..

Which means the truth is in between

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500861897251655682

These are the most accurate maps.

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## LeGenD

Any member who declares verifiable information as non-factual reporting will be booted from this thread. Consider this a warning. Trolling is not allowed.

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## SIPRA

Avicenna said:


> It's muppets like this that have caused this war in the first place.



US/NATO, for their geopolitical interests, threw the poor people of Ukraine, into this misery and carnage. These people are really heartless.

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## sammuel

Vergennes said:


> lmao
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500832256058875909




*" With every passing day, Putin sows more and more seeds of hatred between Ukrainians and Russians — who didn’t hate each other before. They were family. This is hatred for generations. By his own hand, he is ensuring there is no chance of them uniting.”*

*Yuval Noah Harari , historian*​
*~*

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## LeGenD

Huffal said:


> Again take it with a grain of salt. Considering how both sides are claiming to have destroyed vehicles belonging to one another, but it turns out it was their own (such as the 2 T80BV tanks that were allegedly captured by Ukriane, but were actually Ukrainian from the get go)


There might be cases of visual misidentification but WE should not handwave an entire source due to such cases.

If you notice a mistake in published records, you can convey it to the relevant source:






Contact







www.oryxspioenkop.com

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## F-22Raptor

LeGenD said:


> There might be cases of visual misidentification but WE should not handwave an entire source due to such cases.
> 
> If you notice a mistake in published records, you can convey it to the relevant source:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contact
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.oryxspioenkop.com




They have their heads buried in sand.

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## Wood

Important maps to consider when we speculate on people support for Ukrainian vs Russian side







Vote share of united pro-russian opposition bloc in 2014






Interesting to see that the pro-Russian opposition bloc vote share roughly matches with Russian ethnic population in the east. If these people want to move into Russia, then a proportional partition with population transfer is not unjustified. With that settled, Ukraine should be allowed to join whatever bloc that they want to

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## Primus

LeGenD said:


> And why should WE take it all with a grain of salt?
> 
> There can be cases of visual misidentification but WE cannot handwave sources like this.


Why should we? Because the fog of war hasnt disappeared yet? Perhaps thats why? As with any war you take ALL claims with a grain of salt. NK2020 war showed everyone why they should. Armenian propaganda is similar to that of Ukraines, with the absurd claims. But as we all saw, Armenia was torn apart by those Azerbaijani drones, and they ultimately lost the war.

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## LeGenD

Huffal said:


> Why should we? Because the fog of war hasnt disappeared yet? Perhaps thats why? As with any war you take ALL claims with a grain of salt. NK2020 war showed everyone why they should. Armenian propaganda is similar to that of Ukraines, with the absurd claims. But as we all saw, Armenia was torn apart by those Azerbaijani drones, and they ultimately lost the war.


I am sorry but WE cannot take all manner of information with a grain of salt as per your suggestion. I did not post Ukrainian statistics of Russian losses in war for your consumption. I understand that Ukraine will exaggerate Russian losses in its books while Russians will try to downplay them.

The source in question is neutral (Turkish) and it is providing visual confirmation of equipment losses of both Russia and Ukraine in war. This is the best it it can get. WE should respect well-researched and/or informative works. 

Every source is NOT propaganda source. Do not be too paranoid or dismissive.

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## Microsoft

Why the concern hasn't Russia lost a gazillion tanks and 1.2 gazillion trucks? Their convoy is stalled only 1 major city has been captured...

Please feel free to add to the cope list.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500867759097491463

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500869008828116995

Another column of Russian fuel trucks destroyed

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## Type59

Wood said:


> Important maps to consider when we speculate on people support for Ukrainian vs Russian side
> 
> View attachment 821682
> 
> 
> Vote share of united pro-russian opposition bloc in 2014
> 
> View attachment 821683
> 
> 
> Interesting to see that the pro-Russian opposition bloc vote share roughly matches with Russian ethnic population in the east. If these people want to move into Russia, then a proportional partition with population transfer is not unjustified. With that settled, Ukraine should be allowed to join whatever bloc that they want to



I noticed people who speak Russian in Ukraine, will identify as Ukrainian. Soo ethnicity is Fluid like gender😉

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Azov is holding children and women hostage inside Mariupol.. Because they don't want the city to fall hence they are keeping them hostage inside the siege.

*DPR troops ordered the Armed Forces of Ukraine to release women and children from Mariupol*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500868012177514504

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## Wood

Type59 said:


> I noticed people who speak Russian in Ukraine, will identify as Ukrainian. Soo ethnicity is Fluid like gender😉


There are ethnic Russians in my social circle who are of Ukrainian nationality. They used to be very pro Putin before the start of the war and do not want their country to join EU. Strangely, they chose to immigrate to the west and even tried to bring their reluctant family members over here .  Having said that, Ukrainians from Kyiv are unambiguously pro EU.

The difference in their preference for geopolitical alignment is stark and real. Soviet Union did a number on these people . Stalin forcibly moved Russians into Ukraine as part of the SU's integration strategy. This was a timebomb set in the region.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

This is propaganda.. The evacuation route is not mined or atleast not by the Russians but Azov don't want the civilians to exit in order to cling on the city so that it doesn't get flatlined hence they are coming up with all this ridiculous narratives..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500871662945796097

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## That Guy

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Azov is holding children and women hostage inside Mariupol.. Because they don't want the city to fall hence they are keeping them hostage inside the siege.
> 
> *DPR troops ordered the Armed Forces of Ukraine to release women and children from Mariupol*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500868012177514504


Lol, wasn't this the same source that claimed the Ukrainians were planning to blow up a nuclear plant, and launch a bioweapon?

@LeGenD

Is it possible to implement a ban on certain sources that are known fake news hubs?



Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> This is propaganda.. The evacuation route is not mined or atleast not by the Russians but Azov don't want the civilians to exit in order to cling on the city so that it doesn't get flatlined hence they are coming up with all this ridiculous narratives..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500871662945796097


🤣 🤣 🤣 

Saying something is propaganda, while spouting propaganda! You can make this stuff up!!!


----------



## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500869008828116995
> 
> Another column of Russian fuel trucks destroyed



One column after another it seems the russians don't learn anything.

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## Meengla

Dustom999 said:


> If and when Russia is at a breaking point, China will help. Not because China loves Russia, but because they have a common enemy .
> China's politics can easily spin this as western hypocrisy, western terrorism et all.
> If China dives into this fight, europe will be China's whore not Russia's. China has the numbers to match, China has industrial might and for the record China now has technological might as well.
> Being an Indian, I hope this settles within europe.
> Also, of nato gets involved and Russia starts losing, they will use tactical nukes. That is a given. Even if Russia uses tactical nukes on battlefield, no one will dare send an icbm to Kremlin. Because everyone knows after that only the martians survive!



Surprised no one gave any 'reaction' to your sensible post and looks like you are even banned?
The biggest winners of this conflict, especially if the conflict remains in Europe, are America and China.

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## AZMwi

F-22Raptor said:


> The Chechens that came to fight in Ukraine were annihilated and retreated with their tails between their legs.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

That Guy said:


> Saying something is propaganda, while spouting propaganda! You can make this stuff up!!!



I am entirely neutral don't get me wrong but I don't agree with fake news.

The Azov is trying to prevent the demolition of the city which is why they are hanging onto the civilians as a lifeline

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500869008828116995
> 
> Another column of Russian fuel trucks destroyed


Insurgency tactics. Seems like Ukrainians do not want to hold the routes captured by Russia. Instead they let the Russian trucks drive in and then ambush the fuel.


----------



## LeGenD

That Guy said:


> Lol, wasn't this the same source that claimed the Ukrainians were planning to blow up a nuclear plant, and launch a bioweapon?
> 
> @LeGenD
> 
> Is it possible to implement a ban on certain sources that are known fake news hubs?
> 
> 
> 🤣 🤣 🤣
> 
> Saying something is propaganda, while spouting propaganda! You can make this stuff up!!!


I would appreciate some pointers of inaccuracy of this source.



Meengla said:


> Surprised no one gave any 'reaction' to your sensible post and looks like you are even banned?
> The biggest winners of this conflict, especially if the conflict remains in Europe, are America and China.


He is banned for dismissing contents in following post:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Chechens marching on Kiev



defence.pk





- as nonfactual reporting, dismissing my warning, and disrespecting me. He won't be back soon I assure you.

Let this be 2nd reminder to all that TROLLING will NOT BE TOLERATED.

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## Paul2

The war nears the 2nd week.

There were last desperate attempts to break the stalemate, without success.

Remaining individual units in the field don't have enough power to punch through, especially in the north.

Russian forces in the south managed to limit their losses by enlarging their formations, and consolidating their units around few big cities, and limiting careless movement in the open field.

The defenders on other hand don't have enough reserve to counterattack, or interdict on large scale.

Only small harassing forces of regular army switching to guerilla tactics keep inflicting losses on isolated Russian forces, and logistics.

DPR, and LPR respond with own counter-ambushes.

Both sides are exhausted, and are thinking what to do next.

Russia is desperately trying to R&R its force with everything, going as far as pulling its tanks from the border with China, which means it's really dire for them. A big gamble. Putin stakes everything in this.

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## AZMwi

F-22Raptor said:


> Kiev is defended by the best Ukrainian forces. They are very well equipped, NATO trained, and NATO standard. Thats a brutal fight waiting for the Russians.


its their fu**ing capital what do u expect.


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Battle of Mariupol in depth analysis and break-down by a Malaysian-Singeporean Brother and his quite good and without bias and extremely neutral view on it.







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500875437995872258


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Ali_Baba said:


> No proof at all of any of it ..




Proof is puppet Zelensky crying to his Western handlers and begging them to close the sky. If his air force was active, he wouldn't be crying to his Western handlers.

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## Paul2

Wood said:


> Insurgency tactics. Seems like Ukrainians do not want to hold the routes captured by Russia. Instead they let the Russian trucks drive in and then ambush the fuel.



I think they simply don't have enough troops.

They have a lot of territorials now, but these people are just men with few days of training, and no gear besides a single AK. At most, they can take towns, while being transported on civilian vehicles.

Training for using even a simplest ATGM like NLAW takes weeks for perfection.

Flooding forests with these militias also wouldn't be the best use of them at this stage, because they will run into same issue as Russians stuck there in a few days.

In the open field, they will be of even lesser effectiveness.

The best what can they do is to get more tube artillery, and steadily purge enemy armour, and strongpoints from towns north of Kiyv.

If they can push Russian force behind Chernobyl, and blow up the bridge. They will get a lot more of breathing room. They will then be able to use Kiyv as the logistics centre for the norther theatre, or possibly even make an offensive into Belarus.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500829731608051714
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500830095963049985
> 
> Abandoned and destroyed Russian equipment




Those are Ukrainian equipment passed around as Russian equipment.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500876567509147650

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Battle of Mariupol in depth analysis and break-down by a Malaysian-Singeporean Brother and his quite good and without bias and extremely neutral view on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500875437995872258



This guy is actully good and go to 8;28 he says when the Russians are gonna enter Mariupol they will enter from the road the evacuation is using hence mining the road that doesn't make logical sense which is absolutely true.. Go to 8;28 point that is where he touches upon it

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500840439594856453

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500792336669884418

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500876567509147650



They unloaded an MLRS onto helis of Russian airborne which reinforced the force in the town.

Now they are stuck there, and cannot continue offensive, because Russia is running out of helis, and force reserve in Crimea.

The way they radiated that much in the south, pouring its force out of Crimea may bite them back in case Ukrainians will block their retreat.

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## LeGenD

@Qutb-ud-din Aybak 

This: 



https://twitter.com/rianru



- is Russian Twitter handle.

I am not sure how objective it is.

For general knowledge:

*Manipulation. A group of telegram channels administered by Russian intelligence services claim that Zelensky is using civilians as a weapon against the Russian military.*
_
Manipulators involve the fact that Ukrainians are not evacuated from cities that are regularly under attack. Detector Media recorded such rhetoric on the fourth day of the war, but it is very dangerous to evacuate civilians in large numbers, both then and now, without green corridors.

The propagandists explain that Zelensky is deliberately making sacrifices among the civilians in order to maintain the image for the media and foreign partners. As if, that's how Ukraine is asking for weapons._









#DisinfoChronicle. Kremlin disinformation about the military offensive in Ukraine


Detector Media collects and documents real-time chronicles of the Kremlin disinformation about the Russian invasion. Ukraine for decades has been suffering from Kremlin disinformation. Here we document all narratives, messages, and tactics, which Russia is using from February 17th, 2022...




detector.media


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500794251545923587


----------



## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Those are Ukrainian equipment passed around as Russian equipment.



Ukraine doesn't have T72B3 OBR2016 and BMP3 (only a handful,4) in active service,thank you,goodbye.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500766087243313157


----------



## That Guy

LeGenD said:


> I would appreciate some pointers of inaccuracy of this source.


It's in this post somewhere, something about bioweapons and blowing up a nuclear plant, neither of which are obviously true.

I'll look for it as soon as I get the time.



AsianLion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500799855022821382


"Russian tank"? Is that what they call Ukrainian farming rquipment?

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## LeGenD

That Guy said:


> It's in this post somewhere, something about bioweapons and blowing up a nuclear plant, neither of which are obviously true.
> 
> I'll look for it as soon as I get the time.
> 
> 
> "Russian tank"? Is that what they call Ukrainian farming rquipment?


It is Russian Twitter handle:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments






defence.pk

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Ukraine doesn't have T72B3 OBR2016 and BMP3 in active service,thank you,goodbye.



"After collapse of the Soviet Union a small number of BMP-3 IFVs (4-6 units) ended up in Ukraine. Some of these armored vehicles have been transferred to USA for examination. The BMP-3 has been exported to Azerbaijan (100), Cyprus (43), Indonesia (54), Kuwait (around 200), South Korea (70), United Arab Emirates (around 650) and Venezuela (130). Morocco ordered 60 of these combat vehicles. The BMP-3 is still being produced."





__





BMP-3 Infantry Fighting Vehicle | Military-Today.com


The BMP-3 Infantry Fighting Vehicle is a new design. This IFV has a considerable anti-armor capability.



www.military-today.com






Busted

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## LeGenD

Ukrainian army vehicles:

https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/modern/Ukraine/ukrainian-tanks.php 

@Hassan Al-Somal 
@Vergennes

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## Foinikas

Even gaming companies are imposing sanctions on Russians now...

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## Paul2

My take from week 2 of warfare on armour, and equipment: light SPGs are still no less deadly for armour as they were in WW2.

People saying that light artillery was dead in 21st century got their dish served.

122mm provides complete carnage on both sides. Any stationary piece of armour is gone within minutes after spotters gets their eyes on it, and today we have DJI drones acting as them.

122mm roof hit is still fully capable of killing any MBT today. Ammo is plentiful, rate of fire is double that of 155mm, no fancy electronics needed.

A quadcopter paired with 2S1 SPG is so far the most deadly weapon of this war.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500885113315508228

Pentagon assesses Russia has committed nearly 100% of its forces into Ukraine

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## Pakistani Fighter



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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500884152937336833
I think PKR will soon be more valuable than Russian Rouble


----------



## F-22Raptor

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500884152937336833




Russian economy is destroyed. Third world state

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## Foinikas

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500884152937336833


Oh great,I'll invest in Ukrainian Hryvnia...

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500871367461380096

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500798954379919362

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500884932410810372

As I've said, Russia doesn't have the forces to occupy Kiev.

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## thetutle

Paul2 said:


> My take from week 2 of warfare on armour, and equipment: light SPGs are still no less deadly for armour as they were in WW2.
> 
> People saying that light artillery was dead in 21st century got their dish served.
> 
> 122mm provides complete carnage on both sides. Any stationary piece of armour is gone within minutes after spotters gets their eyes on it, and today we have DJI drones acting as them.
> 
> 122mm roof hit is still fully capable of killing any MBT today. Ammo is plentiful, rate of fire is double that of 155mm, no fancy electronics needed.



How easy is to hit a stationary tank with a 122mm piece of artillery? I would not think its very easy. 

To put this war into perspective. USSR invasion of Hungary in the 1950's took about 7 days. with very few casualties. 

USSR invasion of Czeckoslovakia too 2 or so days and the lost a handful of troops. The main airport was taken within an hour before the war even started.

Crimea was taken without a shot being fired almost. 

Did Putin really think this would go the same way? Could be. Did he think 200k troops could do the job, clearly he did. 

Germany needed 3.5 million troops to take France and they only even conquered half of it. Ukraine is huge. 

Could this be the biggest military blunder? could definitely be.

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500884932410810372
> 
> As I've said, Russia doesn't have the forces to occupy Kiev.



Seeing how the Russians are struggling,they might reconsider their objectives. Occupying entire Ukraine seems now impossible. Russians even brought parade uniforms with them. "victory parade" will probably have to wait a bit.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500885068633583616
Latest Pentagon assessment


----------



## That Guy

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500884152937336833
> I think PKR will soon be more valuable than Russian Rouble


Almost...

1 Pakistani Rupee equals 0.87 Russian Ruble, give it another week, and Russia might consider using PKR as a reserve currency, lol.

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## Genghis khan1

Xerxes22 said:


> BTW you are named after a psychpathic butcher and the second most prolific serial rapist after Genghis Khan.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500884932410810372
> 
> As I've said, Russia doesn't have the forces to occupy Kiev.




Wth, if Iraqis had a fraction of what is available to the Ukrainians, there wouldn't have been the occupation of Iraq. You can't even compare the two. Mosul alone took the arial and ground attacks of 80 countries against roughly 4,000 ISIS fighters, and it took them a whole year to turn the city into a rubble. Meanwhile 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500875174383656960

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500888400068554758

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## RescueRanger

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500884932410810372
> 
> As I've said, Russia doesn't have the forces to occupy Kiev.


If people on PDF don’t know John Spencer - the man is the real deal.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Russian forces have seized 100 LELEKA -100 UAVs from the Ukrainians


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500884126181773323


----------



## F-22Raptor

RescueRanger said:


> If people on PDF don’t know John Spencer - the man is the real deal.




Chair of Urban Warfare Studies with the Madison Policy Forum and former Major in the US Army

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## coffee_cup

Can someone remind me how many Refugees UK and US have taken? And that too without Visa?

They were the loudest of all to throw fuel on fire, as also mentioned by Chinese FM.

Right now, Poland has taken close to a million and Germany 50K+.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500890800380682243


----------



## mmr

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500884152937336833
> I think PKR will soon be more valuable than Russian Rouble


we can use it as toilet paper soon.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500890771544752129

Yet another Russian convoy wiped out

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## ZeEa5KPul

F-22Raptor said:


> The Chechens that came to fight in Ukraine were annihilated and retreated with their tails between their legs.


The Ghost of Kiev killed them all.

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## Wood

That Guy said:


> Almost...
> 
> 1 Pakistani Rupee equals 0.87 Russian Ruble, give it another week, and Russia might consider using PKR as a reserve currency, lol.


Russian oil companies have offered oil at 30% discount for India. Because of lack of SWIFT access, only way for India to pay them is by setting up a Rouble Rupee account. Now imagine the loss for these oil companies even if India takes their offer.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500890800380682243



Stalled, yeah. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500873298128822275

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## coffee_cup

There is a news in German media that Russian Embassy in Ireland was attacked.

Attacker drove a truck to the main gate of the embassy and broke through it. He was however over powered and arrested afterwards.

Well this is not good! Protection of embassies are job of the host nations!

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## mmr

Wood said:


> Russian oil companies have offered oil at 30% discount for India. Because of lack of SWIFT access, only way for India to pay them is by setting up a Rouble Rupee account. Now imagine the loss for these oil companies even if India takes their offer.


Good for india. india will be milking russia along with china.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500879877741891589

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## coffee_cup

That Guy said:


> Almost...
> 
> 1 Pakistani Rupee equals 0.87 Russian Ruble, give it another week, and Russia might consider using PKR as a reserve currency, lol.



In 90s there was a time when 1 US $ was traded like 50,000 Rubles.

Russia survived those times. This is nothing in comparison!

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## Wood

mmr said:


> Good for india. they will be milking russia along with china.


India may not take this deal because of International pressure. There is a reason that this commodity is given at a 30% discount. There is no such thing as free lunch


----------



## sammuel



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## mmr

Wood said:


> India may not take this deal because of International pressure. There is a reason that this commodity is given at a 30% discount. There is no such thing as free lunch


I will be surprised if india does not. india getting dirt cheap oil without even burning massive FX india has. Russian's will be paid in rupee lol.

putin better getting used to butter chicken

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## F-22Raptor

ZeEa5KPul said:


> The Ghost of Kiev killed them all.




17,000 anti tank weapons, and 2,000 Stingers delivered to Ukraine in the last week alone. As the Ukrainians say, Russia is not a strong army, there's just a lot of them to kill.

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## Paul2

thetutle said:


> How easy is to hit a stationary tank with a 122mm piece of artillery? I would not think its very easy.
> 
> To put this war into perspective. USSR invasion of Hungary in the 1950's took about 7 days. with very few casualties.
> 
> USSR invasion of Czeckoslovakia too 2 or so days and the lost a handful of troops. The main airport was taken within an hour before the war even started.
> 
> Crimea was taken without a shot being fired almost.
> 
> Did Putin really think this would go the same way? Could be. Did he think 200k troops could do the job, clearly he did.
> 
> Germany needed 3.5 million troops to take France and they only even conquered half of it. Ukraine is huge.
> 
> Could this be the biggest military blunder? could definitely be.



When I was on drills with my high school class, artillerymen showed they hit a mock tank target with a first hit just at the limit of naked eye sight 5-6 kms with type 83 towed howitzer.

Nowadays, all kinds of computerised gun sights would make it even easier.

The point is that a properly maintained gun is very accurate at below 10km, and is physically capable of bullseyeing tank sized targets just as well as modern tank guns can guarantee hit inside 1m diameter target at limit of their effective range because of fancy ballistic computers.

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## That Guy

coffee_cup said:


> In 90s there was a time when 1 US $ was traded like 50,000 Rubles.
> 
> Russia survived those times. This is nothing in comparison!


Lol

It's funny how everyone went from sanctions won't do a thing, to saying the Russians will survive! If you're talking about mere survival, you're not in good shape.

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## Wood

mmr said:


> I will be surprised if india does not. india getting dirt cheap oil without even burning massive FX india has. Russian's will be paid in rupee lol.
> 
> putin better getting used to butter chicken


Yes, Indian budget deficit is beyond control. So this may be very tempting for the government. We'll see what happens.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500894140837605376

Russian logistics continue to get obliterated.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500874139841835013

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## That Guy

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500894140837605376
> 
> Russian logistics continue to get obliterated.


I bet they learned this from the US and UK, and how they would get ambushed in Afghanistan and especially Iraq.

Militants would either let the heavy tanks and IFVs roll by and attack the logistics support behind them, or they'd destroy the front and rear vehicles to create a kill box.


----------



## LeGenD

ZeEa5KPul said:


> The Ghost of Kiev killed them all.


It is exaggeration but a Chechen mission failed:









Kadyrov Admits Chechen Casualties in Ukraine - The Moscow Times


Russia’s military has admitted there were "killed and injured" soldiers among its troops in Ukraine without saying how many have died.




www.themoscowtimes.com













Ramzan Kadyrov reported on the losses among the Chechen security forces during a special operation in Ukraine


On March 1, 2022, the Head of the Chechen Republic addressed the people of Ukraine in his Telegram channel. In his appeal, Kadyrov pointed to the absence of a legitimate centralized government in Ukraine, which would be interested in preserving the lives and well-being of the country's...




en.topwar.ru





Even Russians are admitting it.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500801648876212226

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500892638354026499

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> Seeing how the Russians are struggling,they might reconsider their objectives. Occupying entire Ukraine seems now impossible. Russians even brought parade uniforms with them. "victory parade" will probably have to wait a bit.




The Russians are way overextending their lines, especially to the north, leaving their rears exposed, and logistics and fuel trucks obliterated.


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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Russia when they take Mariupol

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## coffee_cup

That Guy said:


> Lol
> 
> It's funny how everyone went from sanctions won't do a thing, to saying the Russians will survive! If you're talking about mere survival, you're not in good shape.



Just putting things in perspective.

Russians are kinda used to have those harder times and can live with less. We cant say the same about spoiled brats elsewhere in the West.

And right now signs are not good. Diesel selling for 2 EUR a liter, Shell Germany just said that they will limit supplies to bigger players, meaning costs going even higher. Dont even start me about gas prices!

1 Billion $ are being paid by EU to Russia every single day for Gas. For the last 11 days, that would make like 11 billion. Heck, this alone is more than what Pakistan earns in a month?

The point is, there is absolutely no doubt in it that sanctions are gonna bite Russia hard. I have never seen this amount of sanctions on any other country in my lifetime. But you can not destroy economy of country of Russia's size without hurting yourself deeply.

Right now German auto industry is in crisis due to lack of raw materials coming from Russia and do you have any idea what kind of influence German auto industry has on German politics? Well stay tuned. Germany not allowing Ukraine into EU or opposing NATO membership is just the beginning.

Bottom line: These sanctions on Russia can not stay for a longer period of time. This is my personal forecast, :- )

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## That Guy

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500801648876212226
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500892638354026499


South Korean SOF are deadly from what I've heard. If the rumors are true, the Russians are gonna have a bad time.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500896081105891337

Reactions: Angry Angry:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500896081105891337

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500896520450846728


----------



## That Guy

coffee_cup said:


> Just putting things in perspective.
> 
> Russians are kinda used to have those harder times and can live with less. We cant say the same about spoiled brats elsewhere in the West.
> 
> And right now signs are not good. Diesel selling for 2 EUR a liter, Shell Germany just said that they will limit supplies to bigger players, meaning costs going even higher. Dont even start me about gas prices!
> 
> 1 Billion $ are being paid by EU to Russia every single day for Gas. For the last 11 days, that would make like 11 billion. Heck, this alone is more than what Pakistan earns in a month?
> 
> The point is, there is absolutely no doubt in it that sanctions are gonna bite Russia hard. I have never seen this amount of sanctions on any other country in my lifetime. But you can not destroy economy of country of Russia's size without hurting yourself deeply.
> 
> Right now German auto industry is in crisis due to lack of raw materials coming from Russia and do you have any idea what kind of influence German auto industry has on German politics? Well stay tuned. Germany not allowing Ukraine into EU or opposing NATO membership is just the beginning.
> 
> Bottom line: These sanctions on Russia can not stay for a longer period of time. This is my personal forecast, :- )


They'll stay, the EU can afford it, they have the liquidity to afford it. Russia does not, thus it can't.

Russia will survive, no one doubts that, but we may either see a change in leadership, or a purge in the military. Either way, things are not gonna be pretty for the Kremlin. I fully expect there to be riots within Russia, even if they are used to it.

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500890771544752129
> 
> Yet another Russian convoy wiped out



Take a note, they got them inside a wood.

I bet they were trying to sneak along the road, avoiding open terrain.


----------



## coffee_cup

That Guy said:


> They'll stay, the EU can afford it, they have the liquidity to afford it. Russia does not, thus it can't.
> 
> Russia will survive, no one doubts that, but we may either see a change in leadership, or a purge in the military. Either way, things are not gonna be pretty for the Kremlin. I fully expect there to be riots within Russia, even if they are used to it.



Yeah we will see that. Right now things are not looking good for bigger economies.

OK, make your forecast for one year about Russia. 

Do you see riots on streets and govt change in Kremlin till March 2023?


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500896735517974530

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500898264547274761

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500898776692801542

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## srshkmr

Wood said:


> Russian oil companies have offered oil at 30% discount for India. Because of lack of SWIFT access, only way for India to pay them is by setting up a Rouble Rupee account. Now imagine the loss for these oil companies even if India takes their offer.


Oil is not like a tap where you can close it to stop production at moments notice, it takes a while to reduce the production. And since its costlier to store than to produce. They are offering it cheap. Pakistan should fill up their strategic reserves as well. Its a great opportunity for Asians not so much for Europeans

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## That Guy

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians are way overextending their lines, especially to the north, leaving their rears exposed, and logistics and fuel trucks obliterated.


I've said it before, the Russians simply don't have the man power to maintain an occupation of major cities. They can't afford to keep a large enough force in them to maintain order, because they need to move on to their next objectives, leaving behind a token force which will inevitably get crushed.

The Russians can take villages, due to the fact that the Ukrainians don't even seem to be trying to contest small villages. The Ukrainians know their major advantage is the cities, the terrain, and the fact that Russian forces are having to stretch their troops thin across the occupied territories. The more the Russians occupy, the worse the situation becomes for them.

The fact that the Ukrainians are on the defensive, yet have enough forces to match the Russians 1:1 is a huge blessing for them. They can spare troops to harass enemy lines, or even attempt retakes of occupied territory where Russian troops are thinning out.

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## Constantin84

That Guy said:


> Lol
> 
> It's funny how everyone went from sanctions won't do a thing, to saying the Russians will survive! If you're talking about mere survival, you're not in good shape.


Today's Russians are not the early 90s Russians, they're not Soviet era Russians, they're not tsarist era Russians, used to extreme poverty and a boot on their neck. Today's Russians know about Western culture, freedoms and, most importantly...Western luxury and way of life, abroad hollydays,smartphones and the Internet. Once you're used to that, there's no way to revert to a North Koreean, Soviet way of life

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## hussain0216

mshan44 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500653776234942465



Not that I'm complaining, but why is western feminists solution or protest to anything is to get their tits out

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500869373292163072


----------



## coffee_cup

hussain0216 said:


> Not that I'm complaining, but why is western feminists solution or protest to anything is to get their tits out


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500900732064649218

Reporter in Kiev


----------



## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians are way overextending their lines, especially to the north, leaving their rears exposed, and logistics and fuel trucks obliterated.



They are not overextending that much in the north, it's just they literally got stuck.

Their head of the spear been blunted, and the frontlines are now full of defunct units trying to regroup, while at the same time they get bombed by aviation, and artillery the moment they do it.

Russia is trying to resupply, and rearm a force which is on its last legs. No amount of supplies will help them now, but roads are now jammed with MTLBs with ammo, and fuel tankers because they themselves can't go anywhere.

Another point is that while their FOBs in Belarus are very close, the roads from them a very few.

If they will go off-road, they get into impassable bogs, and marshes.

They are trying to break the stalemate using their last Tochkas, and attack aircrafts.

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## Meengla

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians are way overextending their lines, especially to the north, leaving their rears exposed, and logistics and fuel trucks obliterated.



Sounds like a colossal mistake to try to take Kiev or even threaten Kiev. Should have concentrated on eastern Ukraine and southern/coastal Ukraine and bargained to get neutrality from Ukraine.

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## SIPRA

hussain0216 said:


> Not that I'm complaining, but why is western feminists solution or protest to anything is to get their tits out



In this way, you can see a "variety" of protests.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Paul2 said:


> If you had made any effort to research things up, you would've known that Russians also initially tried to blitzkrieg Grozni, and were crushed.
> 
> Only after that, did they resort to levelling the city, while their land forces were _still there fighting_


Uh Russia has a kill ratio advantage in every battle including first battle of Grozny. Try again.

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## srshkmr

hussain0216 said:


> Not that I'm complaining, but why is western feminists solution or protest to anything is to get their tits out


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500902170304126976

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500801648876212226
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500892638354026499



What the fuk... This is hotbed of terrorism. Russia really needs to let go of the mercy angle and come down hard on cities and infrastrastructure as this is breach of international law

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## That Guy

coffee_cup said:


> Yeah we will see that. Right now things are not looking good for bigger economies.
> 
> OK, make your forecast for one year about Russia.
> 
> Do you see riots on streets and govt change in Kremlin till March 2023?


By March 2023?

If Putin wins... (I expect him to win the war inevitably)

I expect massive protests, but I expect Putin to survive. I also expect that a lot of people are gonna end up dead, and the military is gonna go through a purge of sorts.

If Putin loses...(I don't think he'll lose, but his reputation will take a beating)

I expect there to be a push within influential parts of Russian power circles to remove Putin. We could very well see a coup take place, either funded by the oligarchs which Putin screwed with this war, or by an upset military he's sent into Ukraine, clearly unprepared.

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## SIPRA

Meengla said:


> Sounds like a colossal mistake to try to take Kiev or even threaten Kiev. Should have concentrated on eastern Ukraine and southern/coastal Ukraine and bargained to get neutrality from Ukraine.



Russia has placed 4 demands. Neutrality is only one of them.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Crimes of the Ukrainian armed forces against Donbass and Lugansk people. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500786974990471172

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## That Guy

hussain0216 said:


> I'll be honest western coverage of this war has me wanting Ukrainians to suffer


Do yourself a favor, turn off the internet, and take a walk. Do come back on until you feel better.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500902154994921476

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## That Guy

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> What the fuk... This is hotbed of terrorism. Russia really needs to let go of the mercy angle and come down hard on cities and infrastrastructure as this is breach of international law


Oh really? What law would that be?


----------



## Paul2

That Guy said:


> I've said it before, the Russians simply don't have the man power to maintain an occupation of major cities. They can't afford to keep a large enough force in them to maintain order, because they need to move on to their next objectives, leaving behind a token force which will inevitably get crushed.
> 
> The Russians can take villages, due to the fact that the Ukrainians don't even seem to be trying to contest small villages. The Ukrainians know their major advantage is the cities, the terrain, and the fact that Russian forces are having to stretch their troops thin across the occupied territories. The more the Russians occupy, the worse the situation becomes for them.
> 
> The fact that the Ukrainians are on the defensive, yet have enough forces to match the Russians 1:1 is a huge blessing for them. They can spare troops to harass enemy lines, or even attempt retakes of occupied territory where Russian troops are thinning out.



@That Guy @jhungary just how much forces do Russians have in the South now?

There were around 14 BTGs stationed in Crimea before action started. Were they reinforced at the last moment?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500903285439541249

US set to ban Russian oil imports

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## OldTwilight

Ukraine is turning to another Afghanistan by USA ...

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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Crimes of the Ukrainian armed forces against Donbass and Lugansk people.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500786974990471172


And we're just supposed to believe him?


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500904149281652736

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500902429881253893

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## LeGenD

coffee_cup said:


> In 90s there was a time when 1 US $ was traded like 50,000 Rubles.
> 
> Russia survived those times. This is nothing in comparison!


When did that happen?









USD/RUB exchange rate 1992-1998 | Statista


The exchange rate of the U.S.




www.statista.com





Russian economic meltdown occurred in 1998:









The Russian Crisis 1998


Russia’s fixed exchange rate regime together with its fragile fiscal position appeared to be unsustainable in the course of 1998. By then an outbreak of a severe banking, currency and sovereign debt crisis could not be prevented.




economics.rabobank.com





But Russian economy slowly recovered under Vladimir Putin:









20 Years of Vladimir Putin: The Transformation of the Economy - The Moscow Times


Opinion | EBRD Chief Economist Sergey Guriev on the two decade achievements and challenges of Putin's economy.




www.themoscowtimes.com





Russian economy became 5th largest in the world for a time. This changed when Putin decided to intervene in Ukraine in 2014 which resulted in USA imposing well-calculated sanctions on Russia due to which Russian economy dropped from 5th spot to 11th spot in the (2014 - 2021) period.

But the WEST is escalating sanctions to a whole new level for Russia now:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Chechens marching on Kiev



defence.pk





Survival is not the point - countries like Somalia also exist.

Point is that Russia is facing crippling sanctions and will loose much of its hard-earned gains if the trend continues. Even Russian oligarchs are in trouble this time due to confiscation of their overseas assets and more.

Cost of living and life-styles of people have changed a lot since the 1990s.

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## coffee_cup

That Guy said:


> By March 2023?
> 
> If Putin wins... (I expect him to win the war inevitably)
> 
> I expect massive protests, but I expect Putin to survive. I also expect that a lot of people are gonna end up dead, and the military is gonna go through a purge of sorts.
> 
> If Putin loses...(I don't think he'll lose, but his reputation will take a beating)
> 
> I expect there to be a push within influential parts of Russian power circles to remove Putin. We could very well see a coup take place, either funded by the oligarchs which Putin screwed with this war, or by an upset military he's sent into Ukraine, clearly unprepared.



And you dont see any scenario like this:

- Russia wins, Putin continues as president and there are no significant riots or massive protests (with massive protests we mean 100s of thousands of people in cities around Russia) and Russian economy starts to recover? 

?


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

thetutle said:


> There will be no winners except the west if this continues. Ukraine has already lost maybe trillions of dollars of infrastructure and maybe 15,000 lives. But denying Russia the resources of this massive land and its 45 million population is the goal and if that is achieved, the west wins and Ukraine will be fee and then they will rebuild with the help of the west. They have done it many times before and they'll do it again. Ukraine will not have a classic total victory, noone has ever suggested that. IF they are lucky they will get their freedom and a ruined country. But one if they are willing to sacrifice 100k to 300k lives for it.
> 
> I think its worth it if I was a Ukrainian.


Did west help any country in former Yugoslavia rebuild? How come every one is still poor after 20 years? Seems like everyone that can has left. why stay in a war torn and impoverished country when you can leave by walking across a border? But if everyone capable leaves how do you rebuild?

Ukraine is going to be even worse. Their GDP per capita was already not so good. At this rate it is going to be like Afghanistan. Everyone with even 0.1% capability to leave will leave even if they have to scrub dishes. They're used to modern amenities and it's much easier to move to Germany or UK than to struggle in Ukraine, they aren't a traditional society like Afghanistan.

For a comparison, Libya used to be a modern country. Thanks to war their GDP dropped from $14k in 2010 to $3k today and they have oil. If Ukraine drops similarly (gets EU aid but balanced out with no oil) then Ukraine is looking at GDP per capita around $1000. Almost Afghanistan level, inside Europe.


----------



## That Guy

Paul2 said:


> @That Guy @jhungary just how much forces do Russians have in the South now?
> 
> There were around 14 BTGs stationed in Crimea before action started. Were they reinforced at the last moment?


Not sure, we know they made a huge push, and most of their gains since the war started have been in the south, for obvious strategic reasons (land bridge, encirclement, consolidation...Yada Yada Yada....etc).

We also know that the Russians have committed almost their entire combat force in Ukraine, so if reinforcements are coming from across the border, they probably won't be much. It might be the reason why the Russians are having to (reportedly) rely on Chechens and Syrian mercs.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500860833802461186


----------



## bobo6661

That Guy said:


> Oh really? What law would that be?


He means the one russia breaking right now using other nationalities in the army

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## That Guy

coffee_cup said:


> And you dont see any scenario like this:
> 
> - Russia wins, Putin continues as president and there are no significant riots or massive protests (with massive protests we mean 100s of thousands of people in cities around Russia) and Russian economy starts to recover?
> 
> ?


Nope, I don't.

I would define thousands of people as massive, not just 100s of thousands. I don't like the fact that you're arbitrarily adding a goal post by suggesting as such.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500906134449922048

Seen reports that Russia is running low on Iskanders and now having to use Tochka-U missiles

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500873899059388419


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500906584041562113

Reactions: Like Like:
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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500873899059388419


That's...that's not how war strategies work. You don't give up cities without a fight, unless you plan to take them back.

But hey, you know what else could have avoided this entire situation? The Russians not invading. Lol

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500861777948680199

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500906875574968324

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## hussain0216

That Guy said:


> Do yourself a favor, turn off the internet, and take a walk. Do come back on until you feel better.



Tried that, just ended up hating the Ukrainians even more after I thought about it


----------



## Mujahid Memon

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> What the fuk... This is hotbed of terrorism. Russia really needs to let go of the mercy angle and come down hard on cities and infrastrastructure as this is breach of international law


What are you smoking?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500904207892697090

Reactions: Like Like:
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## LeGenD

For general knowledge:

*Manipulation. A group of telegram channels administered by Russian intelligence services claim that Zelensky is using civilians as a weapon against the Russian military.*

_Manipulators involve the fact that Ukrainians are not evacuated from cities that are regularly under attack. Detector Media recorded such rhetoric on the fourth day of the war, but it is very dangerous to evacuate civilians in large numbers, both then and now, without green corridors.

The propagandists explain that Zelensky is deliberately making sacrifices among the civilians in order to maintain the image for the media and foreign partners. As if, that's how Ukraine is asking for weapons._









#DisinfoChronicle. Kremlin disinformation about the military offensive in Ukraine


Detector Media collects and documents real-time chronicles of the Kremlin disinformation about the Russian invasion. Ukraine for decades has been suffering from Kremlin disinformation. Here we document all narratives, messages, and tactics, which Russia is using from February 17th, 2022...




detector.media





@Hassan Al-Somal 
@coffee_cup

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## That Guy

hussain0216 said:


> Tried that, just ended up hating the Ukrainians even more after I thought about it


Welp, I tried.🤷🏽‍♂️


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500907535867555845

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500907871441244164

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

That Guy said:


> That's...that's not how war strategies work. You don't give up cities without a fight, unless you plan to take them back.
> 
> But hey, you know what else could have avoided this entire situation? The Russians not invading. Lol




Well, Ukrainian NAZIs should've stopped attacking the people of Donbass and Luhansk in Eastern Ukraine. They should've also stopped flirting with NATO and putting Russian security at risk. And they should've stopped banning Russian language in Ukrainian government offices even though they have huge Russian citizens in Eastern Ukraine. The root causes of this conflict go at the feet of Zelensky and his fellow NAZI backers.

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## coffee_cup

LeGenD said:


> When did that happen?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USD/RUB exchange rate 1992-1998 | Statista
> 
> 
> The exchange rate of the U.S.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.statista.com


Ok I stand corrected, I mixed, should have been 10$ and not 1$ against 50K or so Rubles. But it was still pretty bad. There were even bank notes in 500,000 Ruble denomination lol. 


"Survival is not the point - countries like Somalia also exist."

Ok where do you want to start:

1) Russia produces everything which she needs - Food, Raw Materials, Oil, Gas in abundance
2) China can fill the gap for technology related imports
3) Russia even now, under the worst sanctions, getting 1 billion $ dollars a day (!) from those very same countries which have put sanctions on her
4) Russia and China have a massive Gas export deal
5) German car industry is completely dependent on Russian raw material
6) Russia sits on some of the largest reserves of gold
7) Russia is a major military power
8) Russia has stuff which world needs and she will find customers with innovative ways of payment

It is not mere survival, it is living like a middle income country. Do you expect given all the above factors Russia will collapse? Well my friend you are in for a big surprise. Stay tuned. I will ask you after a year or 2 when Russian Oligarch boats again start sailing to forbidden ports.

If anything, by cutting off Russia from SWIFT, US has shoot herself in the foot. Even for a non economist like me it is obvious that it will put US Dollar as a reserve currency of the world under huge pressure.

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## Trango Towers

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500578893262200833


Why r they fighting for nothing 😕


----------



## gambit

coffee_cup said:


> @LeGenD : I am wondering if it is ok to deliberately misspell the country leader in insulting ways? Not that it bothers me, but it would be nice to have clarity, :- )


Are you that much of a baby?

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## That Guy

coffee_cup said:


> @LeGenD : I am wondering if it is ok to deliberately misspell the country leader in insulting ways? Not that it bothers me, but it would be nice to have clarity, :- )


It's a world leader, not a religious figure. I assume it's fine. I do it all the time.


----------



## Trango Towers

People are talking about 95% of the forces allocated to Ukraine theatre are active. Well the country the size of Ukraine that's quite a small force.


----------



## coffee_cup

That Guy said:


> Nope, I don't.
> 
> I would define thousands of people as massive, not just 100s of thousands. I don't like the fact that you're arbitrarily adding a goal post by suggesting as such.



Ok, you dont like 100s of thousands and consider 1000s as massive, fine.

Lets fine tune then: Do you see BLM sorta riots in Russia then? Because though anything less than that could be significant for Western media consumption but has no real value on ground.


Heck, in London alone more than million people marched to stop the war in Iraq and it didnt do a shyt.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500898188869447686

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## HaMoTZeMaS

Trango Towers said:


> Why r they fighting for nothing 😕


Just give them a call and they may surely reply


----------



## Wood

Ukraine's army is using a nimble 'game-changing' drone called The Punisher that has completed scores of successful missions against the Russians, say reports


Developed by Ukrainian veterans, say reports, the light drones, invisible to radar, carries a 3kg of explosives to strike the Russian forces.




www.businessinsider.com





Seems like Ukrainians are using these small drones effectively to hit Russian supply lines.


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500912435930320904

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500909957696434181

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500908820637392898

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## sur

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499787486758936577


coffee_cup said:


> Can someone remind me *how many Refugees UK and US have taken?* And that too without Visa?
> 
> They were the loudest of all to throw fuel on fire, as also mentioned by Chinese FM.
> 
> Right now, Poland has taken close to a million and Germany 50K+.



Oh come on! they are "sensible" instigators.


UK refuses to ease visa rules for Ukrainians​. . . *Prime Minister Boris Johnson has rejected calls for the UK to open the door to any Ukrainian refugees* who are fleeing the conflict in their country and wish to seek safety in Britain, saying his government wants to be able to check who is wishing to cross the border.

Speaking on Monday, Johnson defended his government’s response, saying the UK is a “very, very generous country” but officials still want to maintain “control” and “be able to check” anyone who claims to be fleeing Ukraine before granting them a visa.

“*I think it's sensible* given what's going on in Ukraine to make sure that we have some basic ability to check who is coming in,” Johnson said, *dismissing criticism over the UK’s slow admittance of Ukrainian refugees*. . . .




Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500898188869447686



Looks like after these 2 major cities, Ukraine will be land locked ?

Mykolaiv / Nikolayev and Odesa.
Not sure how important is access to the sea to Urk at the moment!









And my guess would be that post-landlock, Rus will get started on this side in rectangle, thereby almost completing the encirclement of the whole country:







A repeat of Ukrainian setting up tanks next to residential apartments and houses, thereby resulting in civilian damage when Rus attempt to destroy them:
This is Mykolaiv. (source)











coffee_cup said:


> . . . African students video few pages back who are protesting that Ukranian people are not letting them go and asking them to stay or even fight instead?
> 
> Propaganda?
> 
> PS: I just want to make it clear, I am not pro Russia or anti Ukraine, I like them both.
> Just too tired of one sided Western propaganda and brainwashing of general public ... and all those non-stop revolutions and Western ignited wars everywhere.



And when they did evacuate, one video shows surprisingly no women or children or elderly in the whole bus:

*Selective-Evacuation?*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500055720036864001
Other video shows them evacuating when Russians were allegedly firing at them (although there are very strong inductions of that footage being staged.) :

.
.
.
.
.

In other news:

"[China's] Friendship with Russia is rock solid."

I take that as an subtle message to whom it may concern.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500771411450896385
.
.
.

Airlines Scramble for Routes Around Russia as [reciprocal] Flight Bans Intensify​...*flying around the giant country may add hundreds of miles and up to two hours to some flights, incurring higher fuel, labor and maintenance costs*
...[*German*] Deutsche Lufthansa AG’s cargo division has canceled flights to some Asian cities including to Hong Kong and Beijing until the end of March.
...*London*-based Virgin Atlantic Airways Ltd. suspended a four-times-a-week cargo service from London to Shanghai
...[*Finland*'s] Finnair Oyj suspended key cargo and passenger routes to cities in South Korea, Japan and China.
...*Russian *flag carrier Aeroflot-Russian Airlines PJSC, meanwhile, scrapped its entire European network
...[*American*] United Airlines Holdings Inc. said it would stop flying over Russia on its route to India
...[*Australias*] Qantas Airways Ltd.’s nonstop service from Australia to London is going over the Middle East and southern Europe instead of Russia,* adding about an hour *to the flight.
...*Ireland*-based ASL Aviation Holdings said its flights to and from Asia are now flying over Kazakhstan instead of Russia. That is *adding around 100 minutes* to a flight between Belgium and South Korea,

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Paul2

In the south, they need to work on getting Russian airforce denied access from the mainland Russia, and Crimea.

Then, Russian forces in the south will find themselves with no supply routes as anything coming from Crimea/mainland Russia through Crimea will be very easily intercepted because the South is an open plain, and salty desert in Crimea itself.

They are still very deep inside Ukraine, with most of force without remotest hope of reaching Russia overland.

Bombing FOBs, and bridges is of prime importance in the Southern theatre.


----------



## That Guy

coffee_cup said:


> Ok I stand corrected, I mixed, should have been 10$ and not 1$ against 50K or so Rubles. But it was still pretty bad. There were even bank notes in 500,000 Ruble denomination lol.
> 
> 
> "Survival is not the point - countries like Somalia also exist."
> 
> Ok where do you want to start:
> 
> 1) Russia produces everything which she needs - Food, Raw Materials, Oil, Gas in abundance
> 2) China can fill the gap for technology related imports
> 3) Russia even now, under the worst sanctions, getting 1 billion $ dollars a day (!) from those very same countries which have put sanctions on her
> 4) Russia and China have a massive Gas export deal
> 5) German car industry is completely dependent on Russian raw material
> 6) Russia sits on some of the largest reserves of gold
> 7) Russia is a major military power
> 8) Russia has stuff which world needs and she will find customers with innovative ways of payment
> 
> It is not mere survival, it is living like a middle income country. Do you expect given all the above factors Russia will collapse? Well my friend you are in for a big surprise. Stay tuned. I will ask you after a year or 2 when Russian Oligarch boats again start sailing to forbidden ports.
> 
> If anything, by cutting off Russia from SWIFT, US has shoot herself in the foot. Even for a non economist like me it is obvious that it will put US Dollar as a reserve currency of the world under huge pressure.


1) Not really. The Russians rely on raw material from foreign forces as well.

2) Sure, but considering what happened with the tires, not only would the Russians be nervous about it, but they'd consider it humiliating to rely on foreign tech, when they've for decades said they have superior tech to the Chinese.

3) $1 billion, yes. However, they're losing $10 billion a day on this war, so they're $9 billion in the red.

4) and the Chinese are gonna absolutely blackmail them. The Chinese are businessmen, before they're allies. This is a golden opportunity to turn Russia into an economic puppet.

5) they'll survive and find other sources.

6) good luck.

7) ha...haha...HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA..

8)..HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHA! Man that's funny. Other than wheat, no one really cares much about Russian tech, at least not after this war, which has been humiliating for the Russians.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## coffee_cup

LeGenD said:


> For general knowledge:
> 
> *Manipulation. A group of telegram channels administered by Russian intelligence services claim that Zelensky is using civilians as a weapon against the Russian military.*
> 
> _Manipulators involve the fact that Ukrainians are not evacuated from cities that are regularly under attack. Detector Media recorded such rhetoric on the fourth day of the war, but it is very dangerous to evacuate civilians in large numbers, both then and now, without green corridors.
> 
> The propagandists explain that Zelensky is deliberately making sacrifices among the civilians in order to maintain the image for the media and foreign partners. As if, that's how Ukraine is asking for weapons._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #DisinfoChronicle. Kremlin disinformation about the military offensive in Ukraine
> 
> 
> Detector Media collects and documents real-time chronicles of the Kremlin disinformation about the Russian invasion. Ukraine for decades has been suffering from Kremlin disinformation. Here we document all narratives, messages, and tactics, which Russia is using from February 17th, 2022...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> detector.media
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Hassan Al-Somal
> @coffee_cup



Ok fine.

What do you make of those African students video few pages back who are protesting that Ukranian people are not letting them go and asking them to stay or even fight instead?

Propaganda?



PS: I just want to make it clear, I am not pro Russia or anti Ukraine, I like them both.
Just too tired of one sided Western propaganda and brainwashing of general public ... and all those non-stop revolutions and Western ignited wars everywhere.

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## sammuel

~



" Russia will stop 'in a moment' if Ukraine meets terms "​
Sounds optimistic does it not ?

So here are the terms :


1. "They should make amendments to the constitution according to which Ukraine would reject any aims to enter any bloc." ( in other words no NATO )


2. they should recognize that Crimea is Russian territory and that they need to recognize that Donetsk and Lugansk are independent states.


3. * Russia "will finish" demilitarization of the country . . .*


I think that this third term reveals clearly what Putin is all about , and hope I would not have to read on this forum those who try to understand Putin's side .

No , it is not about NATO , No it is not like the Cuba missile crises like some here tried to argue. It is about a cruel dictator that invaded a country and wishes to leave it helpless , at his mercy and under his control.












Russia will stop 'in a moment' if Ukraine meets terms - Kremlin


Russia has told Ukraine it is ready to halt military operations "in a moment" if Kyiv meets a list of conditions, the Kremlin spokesman said on Monday.




www.reuters.com

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## That Guy

coffee_cup said:


> Ok, you dont like 100s of thousands and consider 1000s as massive, fine.
> 
> Lets fine tune then: Do you see BLM sorta riots in Russia then? Because though anything less than that could be significant for Western media consumption but has no real value on ground.
> 
> 
> Heck, in London alone more than million people marched to stop the war in Iraq and it didnt do a shyt.


Whatever form they take, there will be people on the streets.

Also, the war protests were not meant to topple the government, if it was, they would have done a lot more.


----------



## Wood




----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500914661545451525

Reactions: Like Like:
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## coffee_cup

That Guy said:


> 1) Not really. The Russians rely on raw material from foreign forces as well.



Can you list which raw material is Russia dependent on and who provides it?



That Guy said:


> 2) Sure, but considering what happened with the tires, not only would the Russians be nervous about it, but they'd consider it humiliating to rely on foreign tech, when they've for decades said they have superior tech to the Chinese.



This is not an argument, it is rhetoric.



That Guy said:


> 3) $1 billion, yes. However, they're losing $10 billion a day on this war, so they're $9 billion in the red.


Can you back up your claim with some authentic sources? That right now Russia is losing $10 billion a day? And with authentic sources I mean neutral and not that usual Western propaganda mouth pieces.



That Guy said:


> 4) and the Chinese are gonna absolutely blackmail them. The Chinese are businessmen, before they're allies. This is a golden opportunity to turn Russia into an economic puppet.


The argument is about Russia surviving and living as a middle income country and not about whose political camp she will end up.



That Guy said:


> 5) they'll survive and find other sources.


And until then, they will have to do business with Russia, ;-)


That Guy said:


> 6) good luck.


So Russian gold reserves are not disputed. Good that we agree on some point.


That Guy said:


> 7) ha...haha...HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA..


Hysteria? Out of arguments? Rhetoric?


That Guy said:


> 8)..HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHA! Man that's funny. Other than wheat, no one really cares much about Russian tech, at least not after this war, which has been humiliating for the Russians.


More rhetoric.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500916476726984708

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500915669168267264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500916771091533830

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## thetutle

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Did west help any country in former Yugoslavia rebuild?



Of course it did. Croatia, Bosnia and Serbian. Especially Bosnia. Whole cities and villages were rebuilt. Just have a look at pictures of Mostar and Sarajevo, before and after. 



FairAndUnbiased said:


> How come every one is still poor after 20 years?



Poor is a relative term. When you have a country like Austria 140km away, yes you are poor. But on a world or even eastern European level, its not that poor. The average wage in Bosnia is over 500 Euro per month and things are pretty cheap. Few have a mortgage and they all live in properties they own without any debt. Bosnia has abut 1.1 million registered cars in a population of about 3 milion. 



FairAndUnbiased said:


> Seems like everyone that can has left. why stay in a war torn and impoverished country when you can leave by walking across a border?



People dont leave because they are poor necessarily, most leave because they want a bit if an adventure and try something new. Some want to live in a country with cleaner streets. Where things are better organised. Some hear about the tremendous wealth of the EU and go to Austria and work as cleaners for 1,200 Euro per month even though they had a job in Bosnia working in shop for 400 Euro per month. After having to pay rent in Austria they aren't any better off and return to Bosnia. Some go to Sweden and get paid pretty good but realise noone wants to be their friend and and up being depressed and come back to Bosnia. And some just stay depressed and live in Sweden all their life. So no migration is permanent. 



FairAndUnbiased said:


> But if everyone capable leaves how do you rebuild?



Bosnias industrial output is increasing by over 10% per year, so the people left behind seem to be more productive the less of them there are. In the last 10 years Bosnias exports increased form 4 billion Euro to almost 8 billion Euro this year. InshaAllah. 



FairAndUnbiased said:


> Ukraine is going to be even worse. Their GDP per capita was already not so good. At this rate it is going to be like Afghanistan. Everyone with even 0.1% capability to leave will leave even if they have to scrub dishes. They're used to modern amenities and it's much easier to move to Germany or UK than to struggle in Ukraine, they aren't a traditional society like Afghanistan.


Ukraine was quite poor, maybe the poorest in Europe, but even after it has been levelled to the gound, it will be richer than places like afganstan, and once EU starts investing into a free and democratic Ukraine it will quickly Cath up like other eastern EU countries. 

Ukranians are a capable and clever people.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500694924412563456

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## LeGenD

coffee_cup said:


> Ok I stand corrected, I mixed, should have been 10$ and not 1$ against 50K or so Rubles. But it was still pretty bad. There were even bank notes in 500,000 Ruble denomination lol.
> 
> 
> "Survival is not the point - countries like Somalia also exist."
> 
> Ok where do you want to start:
> 
> 1) Russia produces everything which she needs - Food, Raw Materials, Oil, Gas in abundance
> 2) China can fill the gap for technology related imports
> 3) Russia even now, under the worst sanctions, getting 1 billion $ dollars a day (!) from those very same countries which have put sanctions on her
> 4) Russia and China have a massive Gas export deal
> 5) German car industry is completely dependent on Russian raw material
> 6) Russia sits on some of the largest reserves of gold
> 7) Russia is a major military power
> 8) Russia has stuff which world needs and she will find customers with innovative ways of payment
> 
> It is not mere survival, it is living like a middle income country. Do you expect given all the above factors Russia will collapse? Well my friend you are in for a big surprise. Stay tuned. I will ask you after a year or 2 when Russian Oligarch boats again start sailing to forbidden ports.
> 
> If anything, by cutting off Russia from SWIFT, US has shoot herself in the foot. Even for a non economist like me it is obvious that it will put US Dollar as a reserve currency of the world under huge pressure.


Venezuela has largest reserves of oil in the world:









The World’s Largest Oil Reserves By Country


Oil is everywhere in our lives. From the fuel in our car to our shampoo bottles, roads, and more, petroleum is actually very difficult to escape from.




www.worldatlas.com













In Venezuela, a Single Oil Rig Works World’s Biggest Reserves


Venezuela’s fall from oil superpower to failing producer can be illustrated in one image: a single drilling rig working the world’s largest oil reserves.




www.bloomberg.com





Yet Venezuelan economy is in shambles. Why?

China could not rescue Venezuela either:









China (CHN) and Venezuela (VEN) Trade | OEC


Find the latest trade data and tariffs between China and Venezuela.




oec.world













Venezuela’s Oil Industry: Challenges and Illusions


Venezuelan collective Tatuy TV examines the roots of the Venezuelan oil crisis and future prospects for recovery in the industry.




venezuelanalysis.com





_Venezuela's oil industry faces serious obstacles on all levels. The most important hindrance is US sanctions (we will return to the theme later). These unilateral coercive measures reinforce and aggravate other problems._

A country can be blessed with natural resources but it needs customers (EXPORTS), political stability, anti-corruption measures, and a sound economic policy to be prosperous. Conflicts are not helpful.

Now let us have a look at Russian EXPORTS for perspective:






Russia Exports By Country


Trading Economics provides data for 20 million economic indicators from 196 countries including actual values, consensus figures, forecasts, historical time series and news. Russia Exports By Country - was last updated on Wednesday, December 21, 2022.




tradingeconomics.com













Russia's 2021 Exports By Sector And Country - Russia Briefing News


Russia is diversifying, widening and increasing its export base The Russian Federal Customs Service (FCS) has released data that shows for the first ten months of 2021, Russia’s total exports reached $388.4 billion, an increase of 42.8% over 2020. This has been due to a number of factors, not...



www.russia-briefing.com





Russia's Top Five Trading Partners were responsible for 86.9% of all trade between January-October last year and were as follows;

China (US$112.4 billion)
Germany (US$46.1 billion)
Netherlands (US$37 billion)
US (US$28.8 billion)
Turkey (US$25.7 billion)

When you consider Europe as a collective - it is the largest EXPORT destination for Russian goods.

How can Russia substitute much of Europe with other countries? China can only do so much for Russia.

Does China even need to buy numerous Russian goods when it produces so much by itself?

Russia is a major military power? No shit sherlock. This military power will erode through time as crippling sanctions will take full effect and bite very hard. A country needs handsome budget to afford a large and advanced military force.









J.P. Morgan: War Spells Doom for Russian Economy - TheStreet


Western sanctions are making their mark on Russia's economy, with supposed advantages turning into problems.




www.thestreet.com













Morgan Stanley Says Russia’s Set for Venezuela-Style Default


(Bloomberg) -- The odds of Russia making its foreign debt payments are diminishing as bond prices fall, recession in the nation looms and various payment restrictions pile up after the invasion of Ukraine, according to Morgan Stanley & Co.Most Read from BloombergStakes Rise as Putin Says His War...




ca.finance.yahoo.com





If Putin is sensible, he will come to terms with impending Russian economic meltdown and consider political solution for Ukraine.

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## coffee_cup

That Guy said:


> Whatever form they take, there will be people on the streets.
> 
> Also, the war protests were not meant to topple the government, if it was, they would have done a lot more.



So you see George Soros funding and Victoria Nuland kinda people finding their way into Russia and starting Maidan type of "revolution" to topple the president? ;-)


----------



## mmr

That Guy said:


> 1) Not really. The Russians rely on raw material from foreign forces as well.
> 
> 2) Sure, but considering what happened with the tires, not only would the Russians be nervous about it, but they'd consider it humiliating to rely on foreign tech, when they've for decades said they have superior tech to the Chinese.
> 
> 3) $1 billion, yes. However, they're losing $10 billion a day on this war, so they're $9 billion in the red.
> 
> 4) and the Chinese are gonna absolutely blackmail them. The Chinese are businessmen, before they're allies. This is a golden opportunity to turn Russia into an economic puppet.
> 
> 5) they'll survive and find other sources.
> 
> 6) good luck.
> 
> 7) ha...haha...HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA..
> 
> 8)..HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHA! Man that's funny. Other than wheat, no one really cares much about Russian tech, at least not after this war, which has been humiliating for the Russians.


seems ppl dont understand basic economic fundamentals how west will make Russia a bankrupt country which will soon default and will be the like of Venezuela or north Koreans.

they really need to understand why london and ny handle trillions daily. how bond market work...how corporate world works...and importance of *access to liquidity and foreign currency*. its just waste of time lecturing these ppl

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## That Guy

coffee_cup said:


> Can you list which raw material is Russia dependent on and who provides it?
> 
> 
> 
> This is not an argument, it is rhetoric.
> 
> 
> Can you back up your claim with some authentic sources? That right now Russia is losing $10 billion a day? And with authentic sources I mean neutral and not that usual Western propaganda mouth pieces.
> 
> 
> The argument is about Russia surviving and living as a middle income country and not about whose political camp she will end up.
> 
> 
> And until then, they will have to do business with Russia, ;-)
> 
> So Russian gold reserves are not disputed. Good that we agree on some point.
> 
> Hysteria? Out of arguments? Rhetoric?
> 
> More rhetoric.


Be back tomorrow, gonna go to bed. I'll answer you tomorrow. What you wrote is funny.


----------



## gambit

That Guy said:


> It's a world leader, not a religious figure. I assume it's fine. I do it all the time.


He said: _it would be nice to have clarity_

As if it truly strained his mental faculties to associate Putin <=> Poutine.

This is not about 'clarity' but about idol worshipping. He is just ticked off that an American *DARED* to insult his idol.

I had poutine before. It is a good Canadian comfort food dish. So am not sure what he is complaining about.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500863327265861636

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500859240780603398

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## mmr

gambit said:


> He said: _it would be nice to have clarity_
> 
> As if it truly strained his mental faculties to associate Putin <=> Poutine.
> 
> This is not about 'clarity' but about idol worshipping. He is just ticked off that an American *DARED* to insult his idol.
> 
> I had poutine before. It is a good Canadian comfort food dish. So am not sure what he is complaining about.


love poutine ha ha


----------



## LeGenD

coffee_cup said:


> Ok fine.
> 
> What do you make of those African students video few pages back who are protesting that Ukranian people are not letting them go and asking them to stay or even fight instead?
> 
> Propaganda?
> 
> 
> 
> PS: I just want to make it clear, I am not pro Russia or anti Ukraine, I like them both.
> Just too tired of one sided Western propaganda and brainwashing of general public ... and all those non-stop revolutions and Western ignited wars everywhere.


That happened and the issue was discussed at length in this thread many pages earlier.

Poland addressed the problem to large extent:









Information on the refugee situation at the Polish-Ukrainian border - Poland in Nigeria - Gov.pl website


Ukraine is being torn apart by war. Poland is providing both humanitarian and military aid to Ukraine.




www.gov.pl





One of the good members provided an update as well:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Yeh sub loag, Ukraine ko "chuk chuka" kay marwa rahay haen. :-)



defence.pk





I do not deny issues of racism in Ukraine but situation on the ground is very bad and management lapses are very likely. Bad things happen in any country in times of crisis unfortunately.


----------



## gambit

mmr said:


> love poutine ha ha


My dislike, to put it mildly, for Donald Trump is well known on this forum. I used 'Dump' or 'Frump' or 'Stump' or 'The Orange One', and no one complained. No one had any problems figuring out who I was talking about. But the coffee guy have a beef with 'Poutine'.

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## RescueRanger

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500801648876212226
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500892638354026499


1. I see they broke out the donated Belgian FNCs 
2.






Righhhht…..


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500694924412563456



They can take Odessa from the inside which is a major twist

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500923607517696007

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Haha Haha:
1 | Wow Wow:
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## coffee_cup

LeGenD said:


> Venezuela has largest reserves of oil in the world:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The World’s Largest Oil Reserves By Country
> 
> 
> Oil is everywhere in our lives. From the fuel in our car to our shampoo bottles, roads, and more, petroleum is actually very difficult to escape from.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldatlas.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Venezuela, a Single Oil Rig Works World’s Biggest Reserves
> 
> 
> Venezuela’s fall from oil superpower to failing producer can be illustrated in one image: a single drilling rig working the world’s largest oil reserves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bloomberg.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet Venezuelan economy is in shambles. Why?
> 
> China could not rescue Venezuela either:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China (CHN) and Venezuela (VEN) Trade | OEC
> 
> 
> Find the latest trade data and tariffs between China and Venezuela.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oec.world
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Venezuela’s Oil Industry: Challenges and Illusions
> 
> 
> Venezuelan collective Tatuy TV examines the roots of the Venezuelan oil crisis and future prospects for recovery in the industry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> venezuelanalysis.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Venezuela's oil industry faces serious obstacles on all levels. The most important hindrance is US sanctions (we will return to the theme later). These unilateral coercive measures reinforce and aggravate other problems._
> 
> A country can be blessed with natural resources but it needs customers (EXPORTS), political stability, anti-corruption measures, and a sound economic policy to be prosperous. Conflicts are not helpful.
> 
> Now let us have a look at Russian EXPORTS for perspective:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Exports By Country
> 
> 
> Trading Economics provides data for 20 million economic indicators from 196 countries including actual values, consensus figures, forecasts, historical time series and news. Russia Exports By Country - was last updated on Wednesday, December 21, 2022.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tradingeconomics.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia's 2021 Exports By Sector And Country - Russia Briefing News
> 
> 
> Russia is diversifying, widening and increasing its export base The Russian Federal Customs Service (FCS) has released data that shows for the first ten months of 2021, Russia’s total exports reached $388.4 billion, an increase of 42.8% over 2020. This has been due to a number of factors, not...
> 
> 
> 
> www.russia-briefing.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia‘s Top Five Trading Partners were responsible for 86.9% of all trade between January-October last year and were as follows;
> 
> China (US$112.4 billion)
> Germany (US$46.1 billion)
> Netherlands (US$37 billion)
> US (US$28.8 billion)
> Turkey (US$25.7 billion)
> 
> When you consider Europe as a collective - it is the largest EXPORT destination for Russian goods.
> 
> How can Russia substitute much of Europe with other countries? China can only do so much for Russia.
> 
> Does China even need to buy numerous Russian goods when it produces so much by itself?


Come to think of it logically. If _YOU_ can consider those factors, do you think a cunning spy like Putin and his advisors are just plain idiots and they wouldnt have taken that into consideration?

Venezuela and Russia = Apples / Oranges.

Because one is a major power in the world with veto card and other is a third world country in the backyard of USA without any significant military or say in the UN. Venezuala and China/Russia do not share any border either.

Everyone in Europe agrees that though volume will decrease, but Russia and Europe are gonna stay trading partners as long as EU is dependent on Russia's natural resources. Period.

Russia - China trade is going to grow and so will chances of an alternative finance system.



LeGenD said:


> Russia is a major military power? No shit sherlock. This military power will erode through time as crippling sanctions will take full effect and bite very hard. A country needs handsome budget to afford a large and advanced military force.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> J.P. Morgan: War Spells Doom for Russian Economy - TheStreet
> 
> 
> Western sanctions are making their mark on Russia's economy, with supposed advantages turning into problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thestreet.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Morgan Stanley Says Russia’s Set for Venezuela-Style Default
> 
> 
> (Bloomberg) -- The odds of Russia making its foreign debt payments are diminishing as bond prices fall, recession in the nation looms and various payment restrictions pile up after the invasion of Ukraine, according to Morgan Stanley & Co.Most Read from BloombergStakes Rise as Putin Says His War...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ca.finance.yahoo.com


With all due respect, I am no military expert, but by discarding Russia as if she is not even North Korea, you are not stating a fact but more a wish. Just like I dont believe in Russian propaganda, I dont believe these Western propaganda sources as well.

Just think of it, despite all the normal Western Media bullshyt, if it were to be the case, "the greatest military might on earth" would have rolled it flat by now instead of categorically stating how they dont want to enter into war with Russia.

I do believe Russia is a major military power and it will remain that way. And just like you, I am entitled to my opinion.



LeGenD said:


> If Putin is sensible, he will come to terms with impending Russian economic meltdown and consider political solution for Ukraine.



And he has laid down his conditions for that which are quite sensible. Neutrality, no NATO membership and no persecution of Russian minorities. Now Ukraine should show some flexibility as well.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500918368202891271

Reactions: Love Love:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500924465798168586

Reactions: Like Like:
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## TNT

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500923607517696007



Its evident the US and few other countries knew exactly what they were doing all along, they wanted this. These are the biggest warmongers actually and responsible for all these deaths and suffering. Its funny how this war is further exposing hypocrisy of west and their cheerleaders. So much for champions of free speech and equality.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Trango Towers

HaMoTZeMaS said:


> Just give them a call and they may surely reply


As you are so well connected. Give me the number

Reactions: Like Like:
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## coffee_cup

gambit said:


> He said: _it would be nice to have clarity_
> 
> As if it truly strained his mental faculties to associate Putin <=> Poutine.



I wanted to have a *WRITTEN* promise man, that we can do that here.


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500925781396054017

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle



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## Trango Towers

sur said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499787486758936577
> 
> Oh come on! they are "sensible" instigators.
> 
> 
> UK refuses to ease visa rules for Ukrainians​. . . *Prime Minister Boris Johnson has rejected calls for the UK to open the door to any Ukrainian refugees* who are fleeing the conflict in their country and wish to seek safety in Britain, saying his government wants to be able to check who is wishing to cross the border.
> 
> Speaking on Monday, Johnson defended his government’s response, saying the UK is a “very, very generous country” but officials still want to maintain “control” and “be able to check” anyone who claims to be fleeing Ukraine before granting them a visa.
> 
> “*I think it's sensible* given what's going on in Ukraine to make sure that we have some basic ability to check who is coming in,” Johnson said, *dismissing criticism over the UK’s slow admittance of Ukrainian refugees*. . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like after these 2 major cities, Ukraine will be land locked ?
> 
> Mykolaiv / Nikolayev and Odesa.
> Not sure how important is access to the sea to Urk at the moment!
> 
> View attachment 821743
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And my guess would be that post-landlock, Rus will get started on this side in rectangle, thereby almost completing the encirclement of the whole country:
> 
> View attachment 821747
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And when they did evacuate, one video shows surprisingly no women or children or elderly in the whole bus:
> 
> *Selective-Evacuation?*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500055720036864001
> Other video shows them evacuating when Russians were allegedly firing at them (although there are very strong inductions of that footage being staged.) :
> 
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> 
> In other news:
> 
> "[China's] Friendship with Russia is rock solid."
> 
> I take that as an subtle message to whom it may concern.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500771411450896385
> .
> .
> .
> 
> Airlines Scramble for Routes Around Russia as [reciprocal] Flight Bans Intensify​...*flying around the giant country may add hundreds of miles and up to two hours to some flights, incurring higher fuel, labor and maintenance costs*
> ...[*German*] Deutsche Lufthansa AG’s cargo division has canceled flights to some Asian cities including to Hong Kong and Beijing until the end of March.
> ...*London*-based Virgin Atlantic Airways Ltd. suspended a four-times-a-week cargo service from London to Shanghai
> ...[*Finland*'s] Finnair Oyj suspended key cargo and passenger routes to cities in South Korea, Japan and China.
> ...*Russian *flag carrier Aeroflot-Russian Airlines PJSC, meanwhile, scrapped its entire European network
> ...[*American*] United Airlines Holdings Inc. said it would stop flying over Russia on its route to India
> ...[*Australias*] Qantas Airways Ltd.’s nonstop service from Australia to London is going over the Middle East and southern Europe instead of Russia,* adding about an hour *to the flight.
> ...*Ireland*-based ASL Aviation Holdings said its flights to and from Asia are now flying over Kazakhstan instead of Russia. That is *adding around 100 minutes* to a flight between Belgium and South Korea,


China is seeing what the west does. Unites to destroy nations economically. China knows its next.



Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500925781396054017


One thing is for sure.

Pakistan needs to dictionary the doctrine of focusing on tanks and move to drones. 
Light agile fast and effective in destroying armour. 

Spend little on tanks and lot on drones



RescueRanger said:


> 1. I see they broke out the donated Belgian FNCs
> 2.
> 
> View attachment 821753
> 
> Righhhht…..


Why do they all want yo fight the Russians...
If the capture any volunteers....if I was Russian I would castrate them and let them live. This is not a joke

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## Hack-Hook

LeGenD said:


> That happened and the issue was discussed at length in this thread many pages earlier.
> 
> Poland addressed the problem to large extent:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Information on the refugee situation at the Polish-Ukrainian border - Poland in Nigeria - Gov.pl website
> 
> 
> Ukraine is being torn apart by war. Poland is providing both humanitarian and military aid to Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gov.pl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the good members provided an update as well:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> Yeh sub loag, Ukraine ko "chuk chuka" kay marwa rahay haen. :-)
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not deny issues of racism in Ukraine but situation on the ground is very bad and management lapses are very likely. Bad things happen in any country in times of crisis unfortunately.


even before the crisis , racism in Ukraine was an eyesore

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## LeGenD

coffee_cup said:


> Come to think of it logically. If _YOU_ can consider those factors, do you think a cunning spy like Putin and his advisors are just plain idiots and they wouldnt have taken that into consideration?
> 
> Venezuela and Russia = Apples / Oranges.
> 
> Because one is a major power in the world with veto card and other is a third world country in the backyard of USA without any significant military or say in the UN. Venezuala and China/Russia do not share any border either.
> 
> Everyone in Europe agrees that though volume will decrease, but Russia and Europe are gonna stay trading partners as long as EU is dependent on Russia's natural resources. Period.
> 
> Russia - China trade is going to grow and so will chances of an alternative finance system.
> 
> 
> With all due respect, I am no military expert, but by discarding Russia as if she is not even North Korea, you are not stating a fact but more a wish. Just like I dont believe in Russian propaganda, I dont believe these Western propaganda sources as well.
> 
> Just think of it, despite all the normal Western Media bullshyt, if it were to be the case, "the greatest military might on earth" would have rolled it flat by now instead of categorically stating how they dont want to enter into war with Russia.
> 
> I do believe Russia is a major military power and it will remain that way. And just like you, I am entitled to my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> And he has laid down his conditions for that which are quite sensible. Neutrality, no NATO membership and no persecution of Russian minorities. Now Ukraine should show some flexibility as well.



It depends upon what kind of feedback Putin gets from his advisors. You should watch the video shared in following post for valuable insight:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments






defence.pk





All I see in your post is dismissals for the sake of it. A well-explained analogy, Facts & Figures and actual developments do not count in your worldview. Venezuela has tremendous room and potential for growth but it is not in the good books of the WEST and its internal political system did not help its prospects either. China and Russia could not rescue Venezuelan economy either. The so-called economic alternatives are not much of an alternative to begin with. Does it occur to you that USA and Europe represent a tremendous consumer base for countless goods and have much to offer in exchange as well?


----------



## RescueRanger

Ukrainian Il-76 flying out of eastern Poland.


----------



## beast89

Trango Towers said:


> Why r they fighting for nothing 😕


Part of Russia


----------



## coffee_cup

LeGenD said:


> That happened and the issue was discussed at length in this thread many pages earlier.
> 
> Poland addressed the problem to large extent:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Information on the refugee situation at the Polish-Ukrainian border - Poland in Nigeria - Gov.pl website
> 
> 
> Ukraine is being torn apart by war. Poland is providing both humanitarian and military aid to Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gov.pl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the good members provided an update as well:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> Yeh sub loag, Ukraine ko "chuk chuka" kay marwa rahay haen. :-)
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not deny issues of racism in Ukraine but situation on the ground is very bad and management lapses are very likely. Bad things happen in any country in times of crisis unfortunately.



Black Lives Matter. Just like others.

The issue is there and we have to make sure that it does not happen again. 

And we can do it only by making sure that this topic is discussed in media, over and over and over again. In the same way as Western media creates other issues to put pressure on their govts to solve them.

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## Paul2

@LeGenD check my post in GHQ please


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500931915750203397

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## thetutle

I wonder what Putin thought when US picked the day he was going to invade Ukraine and announced it to the world. I wonder if the thought "will they be giving Ukraine all the details they know about by forced and plans?" 

and I wonder if he thought about what effect this information will have on the war.

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## coffee_cup

LeGenD said:


> It depends upon what kind of feedback Putin gets from his advisors. You should watch the video shared in following post for valuable insight:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All I see in your post is dismissals for the sake of it. A well-explained analogy, Facts & Figures and actual developments do not count in your worldview. Venezuela has tremendous room and potential for growth but it is not in the good books of the WEST and its internal political system did not help its prospects either. China and Russia could not rescue Venezuelan economy either. The so-called economic alternatives are not much of an alternative to begin with. Does it occur to you that USA and Europe represent a tremendous consumer base for countless goods and have much to offer in exchange as well?


Sorry, but I am soooo done with Western propaganda machines. Used to read/watch Guardian, BBC, some German ones but have given up many years ago. No more brainwashing for me.

I am not convinced that Russia will be completely ruined in few years with Western sanctions. I hold other opinion. I think, Russia will survive and continue playing major role in world politics.

Lets agree to disagree. Time will tell.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500931493673250829

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2


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500900732064649218

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1


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## Clutch

TNT said:


> Its evident the US and few other countries knew exactly what they were doing all along, they wanted this. These are the biggest warmongers actually and responsible for all these deaths and suffering. Its funny how this war is further exposing hypocrisy of west and their cheerleaders. So much for champions of free speech and equality.



This is my exact contention here vis-a-vis Ukrain-Russia crisis.... They (NATO, West, America) knew exactly how to trigger this conflict and still come out as looking like the champions of "human rights"....

The West plays the role of the good guy versus bad guys so well.... They even have our Pakistani Neoliberals confused....

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## gambit

I understand that there are many people who defends Russia here. But you should also understand that wars are now less opaque than before in this age of fast information. And fast information is why Russia and China have fast responses in controlling information in their countries. The longer this war goes on, the less sympathetic the world will be to Russia as more information about the war is made available thanks to Elon Musk.

No amount of 'What if China or Russia is in Mexico' will create or increase sympathy for Russia. The Ukrainian refugees will not take that hypothetical scenario with their luggage to mull over while stuffed in evac trains. The Euros will not think about that hypothetical scenario as they struggles with the thought and fear that their countries maybe next. Right now, the Ukrainians are calling for the US to set up a no-fly zone, not 'What if' as they lay bleeding and dying. The Euros leadership are regretting they laughed at US when Trump criticized them about depending on Russian oil, not 'What if' as they see Russian oil mixed with Ukrainian blood imported into their countries. So even if there were similarities in the past with the 'What if' the Russia cheerleaders are using now, your efforts will be in vain.

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## Clutch

Trango Towers said:


> Why r they fighting for nothing 😕



They are fighting and dying for Imam Putin


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500917449419411456

Reactions: Like Like:
6 | Love Love:
1


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## AsianLion




----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500872221958492176


----------



## Paul2

thetutle said:


> I wonder what Putin thought when US picked the day he was going to invade Ukraine and announced it to the world. I wonder if the thought "will they be giving Ukraine all the details they know about by forced and plans?"
> 
> and I wonder if he thought about what effect this information will have on the war.



I guess it was intentional:

"See, we know this, and we show the world we don't do anything, but talk"

Putin didn't fully understand that Biden can say a lot of things simply because he is not well mentally due to age.

He interpreted a daily brainfart of a declining 80 years old man as an ok sign, but in reality he got baited by that.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500925000089493510

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## coffee_cup

gambit said:


> I understand that there are many people who defends Russia here. But you should also understand that wars are now less opaque than before in this age of fast information. And fast information is why Russia and China have fast responses in controlling information in their countries. The longer this war goes on, the less sympathetic the world will be to Russia as more information about the war is made available thanks to Elon Musk.
> 
> No amount of 'What if China or Russia is in Mexico' will create or increase sympathy for Russia. The Ukrainian refugees will not take that hypothetical scenario with their luggage to mull over while stuffed in evac trains. The Euros will not think about that hypothetical scenario as they struggles with the thought and fear that their countries maybe next. Right now, the Ukrainians are calling for the US to set up a no-fly zone, not 'What if' as they lay bleeding and dying. The Euros leadership are regretting they laughed at US when Trump criticized them about depending on Russian oil, not 'What if' as they see Russian oil mixed with Ukrainian blood imported into their countries. So even if there were similarities in the past with the 'What if' the Russia cheerleaders are using now, your efforts will be in vain.



Yes.

Iraq had weapons of mass destruction in 2003 and everyone in the world should believe it.

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## oberschlesier

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500917449419411456


This does not justify Putin.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500907595825094664


----------



## oberschlesier

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500872221958492176


Trolling


----------



## The SC

oberschlesier said:


> This does not justify Putin.


Not at all.. but exposes the hypocrisy..

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## Genghis khan1

Media Says Spike In Myocarditis May Be Linked To Ukraine Crisis


U.S.—Thousands of people across the US have been diagnosed with some form of myocarditis, a potentially deadly but rare inflammation of the heart muscle. Media reports say the dramatic spike in cases may be linked to the Ukraine crisis.




babylonbee.com


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500919507606454275

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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500925000089493510



Really today?

If so, it means Ukrainian arty got significantly behind enemy lines, far beyond small towns Russians hold near Bucha.


----------



## zartosht

thetutle said:


> There will be no winners except the west if this continues. Ukraine has already lost maybe trillions of dollars of infrastructure and maybe 15,000 lives. But denying Russia the resources of this massive land and its 45 million population is the goal and if that is achieved, the west wins and Ukraine will be fee and then they will rebuild with the help of the west. They have done it many times before and they'll do it again. Ukraine will not have a classic total victory, noone has ever suggested that. IF they are lucky they will get their freedom and a ruined country. But one if they are willing to sacrifice 100k to 300k lives for it.
> 
> I think its worth it if I was a Ukrainian.



Ukies will get landlocked, and have a rump nazi state left on the west end. Their strategic importance to NATO will decline as a result, and they will become completely irrelevant. If i were a ukranian, i wouldnt think its worth it.




F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500804440722493442
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500821110606213129


seriously dude? first you post random twitter comment by a heavily bias source that makes an outrageous claim of 30 planes being destroyed on the ground with 0 proof whatsover...

then you post a some response. from someone even less relevant but just as bias. Saying how everyone should trust this dudes words. This is just worthless spam.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500937136480165892


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500939272324530176


----------



## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500925000089493510


Hahaha 😂

Learning and innovation go hand in hand. The arrogance of success is to think that what you did yesterday will be sufficient for tomorrow. — William Pollard

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500937704082706434

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## oberschlesier

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500925000089493510


This exactly what they need to do. Target logistics.


----------



## Trango Towers

thetutle said:


>


Delusional twat

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500934803985682439

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500940096966701064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500941407296577538


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500704035611029504

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Sad Sad:
1


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500942046009438208


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500938342074093569

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500943375079456768


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500932803424309248


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500784522023034882

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## gambit

coffee_cup said:


> Yes.
> 
> Iraq had weapons of mass destruction in 2003 and everyone in the world should believe it.


So you are saying that there is no war in Ukraine.


----------



## oberschlesier

Trango Towers said:


> Delusional twat


Well, it`s possible. If the Ukrainians hold couple of days more, target russian logistics, they can even make it. The russian would have to move fresh troops from other strategic directions or send unmotivated constripts. We are seeing, they have a bit of logistic issues and sancions does not help.

Listen, I remember the times of the Warsaw pact and how haff of the stuff in the army did not work. When the whole thing started I was scared, but now I think, that just nothing changed there. It`s mostly a potemkin village. Probably half of russia defence budget is being stolen and lands in swiss banks or something.


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

That Guy said:


> the military is gonna go through a purge of sorts.


Heck yes.... This is a learning curve not only for the Russians but also all audience and decision makers in the top brass around the world... We will see doctrine changes....
Other " side effects " of the war maybe reverse engineering of equipment from both sides... Especially NLAWs and Javelins.... And the Russians won't be so merciful to the Europeans and Nato in there next venture as well...


----------



## 925boy

mmr said:


> seems ppl dont understand basic economic fundamentals how west will make Russia a bankrupt country which will soon default and will be the like of Venezuela or north Koreans.
> 
> they really need to understand why london and ny handle trillions daily. how bond market work...how corporate world works...and importance of *access to liquidity and foreign currency*. its just waste of time lecturing these ppl


troll post since you didnt address any of the argued points.

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## RescueRanger

Comrade Putler is not happy with Twitter. Multiple people reporting that they are unable to see threads or replies to threads. 

Also shows reports on down detector.

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## mmr

925boy said:


> troll post since you didnt address any of the argued points.


already explained by others.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500946869899378689

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## oberschlesier

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500784522023034882


"vigorous and hostile" Russian response would be if NATO expanded as far as the Baltic states"

It did not. Baltic states are in NATO. The whole thing is not about NATO, but russian thinking, that Ukraine is their colony.

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## mmr

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500938342074093569


inflation will impact not just US but everyone as well. 

Expect 1970s type of condition. High inflation and low growth. bad for everyone.


----------



## coffee_cup

gambit said:


> So you are saying that there is no war in Ukraine.



Dont think for a moment that you can put words into my mouth, ;-)

It is about how Anglo-Saxon propaganda machinery adds fuel to the fire and instigates wars around the world.


----------



## kingQamaR

Absolutely. All that Russian military kit may look mightily impressive in military parades, but a lot of it isn't very effective in modern combat, e.g. the predominant T-72 battle tank that is vulnerable to an ti tank missiles of which Ukraine has a large supply. The helicopters are perfect targets for Stin ger rock ets (the Russians hate them since the disastrous Afghanistan war in the 80s) and so on. So yes, Russia has the stronger military and would very likely win a conventional war on the open battle field. But war is never really like that in reality. Hence, the Russian advantage may not be as strong in reality as many believe


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500868562302513161

Reactions: Like Like:
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## coffee_cup

mmr said:


> inflation will impact not just US but everyone as well.
> 
> Expect 1970s type of condition. High inflation and low growth. bad for everyone.



For everyone?

Some are gonna make shyt load of money out of it, :- )


----------



## LeGenD

Top Diplomats From Ukraine And Russia Agree To Meet As The Kremlin Tweaks Its Demands​The twelfth day of the Kremlin's invasion of Ukraine has been marked by new diplomatic efforts to resolve the conflict, as well as continued fighting on multiple fronts. This comes as Ukrainian forces continue to put up a spirited defense of their country, inflicting significant losses on their Russian opponents in terms of personnel and materiel, both in the air and on the ground. Readers can bring themselves up to speed on the current state of the war in our preceding rolling coverage here.









Russia's Invasion Of Ukraine Enters Day 13


Here's a full update on everything going on with the conflict in Ukraine as it approaches the two-week point.




www.thedrive.com

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## Iron Shrappenel

Trango Towers said:


> China is seeing what the west does. Unites to destroy nations economically. China knows its next.
> 
> 
> One thing is for sure.
> 
> Pakistan needs to dictionary the doctrine of focusing on tanks and move to drones.
> Light agile fast and effective in destroying armour.
> 
> Spend little on tanks and lot on drones
> 
> 
> Why do they all want yo fight the Russians...
> If the capture any volunteers....if I was Russian I would castrate them and let them live. This is not a joke


And active protection systems for the VT-4s, Al-khalids and T80UDs...


----------



## oberschlesier

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500868562302513161


Yes, with the help of Reptilians.


----------



## alimobin memon

History tells russians have always had tremendous losses in war but eventually they overwhelm the enemy. Its also true that offensive can have greater losses than defenders and still win. Here I think just like ww2 the russians are slowly gonna throw better and greater punch until ukraine wears out.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500932134911021059

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## mmr

coffee_cup said:


> For everyone?
> 
> Some are gonna make shyt load of money out of it, :- )


yes but think of developing countries. where people spend almost 50 percent on food and transportation cost.

there are talks of shortage of bread in middle east since Russia and Ukraine is bread basket of the world. or even south Asian countries import lot of oil gas and other food items.


----------



## RescueRanger

🚨reported attack on Russian Embbassy in Dublin.

Apparently a protestor reversed a truck into the gates of the embassy:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500920529934598146


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500945013966086146

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500546504410472456

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
1 | Sad Sad:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500909737721876483

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500948151489892355

Reactions: Like Like:
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## oberschlesier

alimobin memon said:


> History tells russians have always had tremendous losses in war but eventually they overwhelm the enemy. Its also true that offensive can have greater losses than defenders and still win. Here I think just like ww2 the russians are slowly gonna throw better and greater punch until ukraine wears out.


ww2, was the "great patriotic war" against the Germans, that have invaded. And here ? We have to fight against Russian speaking people, that are being lead by a neonazi drug addicts ? Who will really believe this bulls**t ?

They could try to make a provocation to justify it, but it`s weak as well.



pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500546504410472456


Does not justify Putin.


----------



## Kraetoz

oberschlesier said:


> Does not justify Putin.



More like exposing hypocrisy of the West. As if they didn't know any attack on civilian is a war crime when they were murdering Afghani civilians left, right and centre.


----------



## Iñigo

coffee_cup said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498673498633478158



Ukraine devoured by fantasies, Ukraine would magically become Denmark if they were obedient to Washington's Master and if they killed many Russians in the Don in addition to the 50 Russian-Ukrainians burned alive in Odessa

Until a few days ago I was a Germanophile and was very fond of Germany where I studied for my doctoral thesis, now after this crisis I wish that the Russian army will advance and overrun Berlin

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## oberschlesier

Kraetoz said:


> More like exposing hypocrisy of the West. As if they didn't know any attack on civilian is a war crime when they were murdering Afghani civilians left, right and centre.


Possible. Was it investigated or just headline ?


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500951765579087873

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## RescueRanger

I know we talk a lot about Azov and adir but in the interests of fairness let’s look at this bombastic video from Russias own “Putler Youth”. 

We were all wondering where those captured young lambs were coming from, well here’s your answer:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499075983437139976

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500948531749830656

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## kingQamaR

Kraetoz said:


> More like exposing hypocrisy of the West. As if they didn't know any attack on civilian is a war crime when they were murdering Afghani civilians left, right and centre.



Killing of poor afghans civilians has been happenings started by then USSR Russians in 1979?

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## Iñigo

This Ukrainian crisis will provide us with the beautiful spectacle of seeing the beginning of a great damage to Germany's industry

As the architect of Ukraine's destruction, the witch Victoria Nuland, said: "fxxx EU"

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## oberschlesier

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500948531749830656


They don`t have these capabilities! It`s all bullsh**


----------



## bobo6661

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500909737721876483
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500948151489892355


Oh no the ukrainians don't want to go to agressor so they want to push them there so they will be the "good guys" so pathetic stunt, and act of desperation of putler to save his image ...


----------



## Paul2

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500937704082706434





kingQamaR said:


> Absolutely. All that Russian military kit may look mightily impressive in military parades, but a lot of it isn't very effective in modern combat, e.g. the predominant T-72 battle tank that is vulnerable to an ti tank missiles of which Ukraine has a large supply. The helicopters are perfect targets for Stin ger rock ets (the Russians hate them since the disastrous Afghanistan war in the 80s) and so on. So yes, Russia has the stronger military and would very likely win a conventional war on the open battle field. But war is never really like that in reality. Hence, the Russian advantage may not be as strong in reality as many believe



Well, besides Russian flaws, there are inherent imbalances today in weapon<>armour struggle.

Top attack munitions basically negate any armour.

MANPADS got so potent, even purpose made attack helos drop down like flies.

ATGMs like NLAW are single use, and disposable. You can give them to every light infantryman, and make crossing woods, and urban terrain a suicide for any armour.

Toy quadcopter drones made 60 years old artillery pieces superbly lethal again

Light strike drones launched from the field gives a country an undeniable air 2 ground force for pennies

Nobody seen all that even 2 years ago, but military planners who were proponents of all of that

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500945013966086146



Denmark has been a NATO member for 73 years plus still a NATO member and I don't understand the panic over joining European security. The Russian fear most be real out here folks.

Or maybe they have been refused to join them by the US as denmark is basically a satellite state for the Americans and the place they used to spy on other European leaders like Merkel


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500804902972530688

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## RescueRanger

oberschlesier said:


> Why do they have the slogans in english ? lol


This video has some serious hitler youth meets Squidgame Vibes.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500791290019172354

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500936843675721728

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500904194294919170

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## Avicenna

Iñigo said:


> This Ukrainian crisis will provide us with the beautiful spectacle of seeing the beginning of a great damage to Germany's industry
> 
> As the architect of Ukraine's destruction, the witch Victoria Nuland, said: "fxxx EU"



I see you are aware.

There is a special place in hell for her and those like her.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500849481801433091

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500928609376251904


----------



## The SC

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Denmark has been a NATO member for 73 years plus still a NATO member and I don't understand the panic over joining European security. The Russian fear most be real out here folks.
> 
> Or maybe they have been refused to join them by the US as denmark is basically a satellite state for the Americans and the place they used to spy on other European leaders like Merkel




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500906173427499013


----------



## RescueRanger

It would appear that the Ukrainians are claiming to have killed the senior most Russian officer leading the campaign in Kharkiv






Gen. major Vitaliy Gerasimov





Source: Telegram.

Will post anyone links once confirmed.



RescueRanger said:


> It would appear that the Ukrainians are claiming to have killed the senior most Russian officer leading the campaign in Kharkiv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gen. major Vitaliy Gerasimov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Telegram.
> 
> Will post anyone links once confirmed.



Bellingcat corroborated this telegram message:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500959074653024259

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## Clutch

oberschlesier said:


> Does not justify Putin.



The condemnation of Putin has to wait in line... The Yemeni, Iraqi, Syrian, Palestinians, Kashmiri, Libyan, Yemeni are all ahead of the line of moral condemnation. If there was unbiased justice those would have been resolved. Ukrainian don't get to jump the line because of Skin Color.

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## oberschlesier

Clutch said:


> The condemnation of Putin has to wait in line... The Yemeni, Iraqi, Syrian, Palestinians, Kashmiri, Libyan, Yemeni are all ahead of the line of moral condemnation. If there was unbiased justice those would have been resolved. Ukrainian don't get to jump the line because of Skin Color.


They should not, but this topic is about Russia - Ukraine war.

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## Clutch

oberschlesier said:


> They should not, but this topic is about Russia - Ukraine war.



Yes... Then this topic of condemning Putin needs to wait until the others are processed first. Let agree to put it on a backburner...

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500958722776051714
Turkish drones are set to have a lot of customers!

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## Madni Bappa

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500958722776051714
> Turkish drones are set to have a lot of customers!


Unsanction those drone makers first. Stupid crackers.

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## Wood

RescueRanger said:


> It would appear that the Ukrainians are claiming to have killed the senior most Russian officer leading the campaign in Kharkiv
> 
> View attachment 821777
> 
> Gen. major Vitaliy Gerasimov
> 
> View attachment 821780
> 
> Source: Telegram.
> 
> Will post anyone links once confirmed.
> 
> 
> 
> Bellingcat corroborated this telegram message:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500959074653024259


Suggests that the Ukranian intelligence is very effective. If they keep targeting commanders like this, Putin will not be able to replace them soon enough.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

oberschlesier said:


> They should not, but this topic is about Russia - Ukraine war.



Well said. These folks who bring in other topics outside of the main topic get on my nerve bro. Hope the mods tackle them

.......................................


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500961885746827272

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## RescueRanger

Wood said:


> Suggests that the Ukranian intelligence is very effective. If they keep targeting commanders like this, Putin will not be able to replace them soon enough.


Well they have support from some very capable people if you know what I mean 😉

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## Avicenna

TNT said:


> Its evident the US and few other countries knew exactly what they were doing all along, they wanted this. These are the biggest warmongers actually and responsible for all these deaths and suffering. Its funny how this war is further exposing hypocrisy of west and their cheerleaders. So much for champions of free speech and equality.



That is the only logical conclusion when examining the facts in detail.

I grew up watching the evening news, and then CNN when cable 24/7 became a thing, and then added in some FOX and MSNBC as well for some diversity of thought.

The reality is that is not news.

Just entertainment most of the time.

And when there is consensus, a propaganda tool.

This is a dirty dirty world.

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## 925boy

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Denmark has been a NATO member for 73 years plus still a NATO member and I don't understand the panic over joining European security.


They want to join the EU pact and ditch NATO because of only 1 real reason : they sense NATO is hollowed out and too big to fight succesfully and effectively, maybe loss in Afghanistan plus this Ukraine situation is really hitting home to NATO members the true reality- they also probably realize US is the main party in it, and wont fight anyone until it fights China, which shows a divergence of priorities within NATO. UK has made outside-NATO alliances, recently with Poland and Ukraine.

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## Wood

RescueRanger said:


> Well they have support from some very capable people if you know what I mean 😉


Ukrainian tactics is clearly to fight this like an insurgency. Hitting supply lines and target commanders. 
Maybe these capable people gave the Ukrainians this idea based on their own recent experiences.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500961535291805707

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## Paul2

Russia has just pushed its last reserves bypassing Kharkiv northwest. I guess they will go for supply lines, and deeper into the country to disrupt Ukrainian rear. 3-5 brigades.

Also, some real airborne staging seems to be happening in Belarus. They will try to do the last big airdrop on Mi26.

Ukraine needs to floor forests with as much MANPADSes as they can on Norther direction.

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## Primus

RescueRanger said:


> Well they have support from some very capable people if you know what I mean 😉


Something seems off about it though... 

Also if true, i suspect Russia wont let this go.

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## reflecthofgeismar



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## Tamerlane

Iñigo said:


> This Ukrainian crisis will provide us with the beautiful spectacle of seeing the beginning of a great damage to Germany's industry
> 
> As the architect of Ukraine's destruction, the witch Victoria Nuland, said: "fxxx EU"



I feel sorry for the people supporting the West in this conflict. They think that they're being very patriotic, when in reality their rulers are wrecking their own countries.

The West spent 20+ years killing Muslim on false pretexts (9/11, Iraqi nukes etc.). The price they paid was over $10 trillion in costs, thousands of their people killed, damage to their reputation and worst of all, it gave China time to become the biggest economy in the world.

What did the West gain from the war on Islam? Zero, cero, null.

Nearly 40% of Americans can’t last a month on savings if they lose their job. Tens of millions don't have health care. The only people who gained were the weapons manufacturers and Israel. The elites are rolling in money while the sheep are barely surviving. People don't seem to know or care that their rulers are 100% controlled by Israel and all policies are made with the interest of Israel in mind.

Again, we see the same thing happening. Russia could have been an ally but their greatest sin was supporting Syria and Iran and not letting the Zionist elites loot them. So there is war and Russia has to be crushed. The average person is the West will be the one cheering the campaign against Russia, dying in wars, being impoverished by inflation, and becoming homeless if they lose their job.

This is an Alice in Wonderland world. Up is down, good is bad.

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## Paul2

RescueRanger said:


> It would appear that the Ukrainians are claiming to have killed the senior most Russian officer leading the campaign in Kharkiv
> 
> View attachment 821777
> 
> Gen. major Vitaliy Gerasimov
> 
> View attachment 821780
> 
> Source: Telegram.
> 
> Will post anyone links once confirmed.
> 
> 
> 
> Bellingcat corroborated this telegram message:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500959074653024259



A 3 star general? How in the world?

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## Wood



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## Primus

I bet this war will end in a stalemate

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500948088868978690


----------



## Madni Bappa

Wood said:


> own recent experiences


What might these experiences be?


----------



## kingQamaR

925boy said:


> They want to join the EU pact and ditch NATO because of only 1 real reason : they sense NATO is hollowed out and too big to fight succesfully and effectively, maybe loss in Afghanistan plus this Ukraine situation is really hitting home to NATO members the true reality- they also probably realize US is the main party in it, and wont fight anyone until it fights China, which shows a divergence of priorities within NATO. UK has made outside-NATO alliances, recently with Poland and Ukraine.



Putin knows he wouldn't stand a chance against NATO and has said as much. It's also why he's telling them to keep out on the threat of nuclear destruction.


----------



## RescueRanger

For the glory seekers - stay at home:









Ukraine military turns volunteers away as 140K Ukrainians come home to fight Russia


Although 1.5 million Ukrainians have fled the country amid the Russian invasion, more than 100,000 Ukrainians and others have flocked to Ukraine in order to fight Russian President Vladimir Putin's forces, according to Ukraine Defense Minister Oleksiy Reznikov.




www.foxnews.com

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## tower9

Tamerlane said:


> I feel sorry for the people supporting the West in this conflict. They think that they're being very patriotic, when in reality their rulers are wrecking their own countries.
> 
> The West spent 20+ years killing Muslim on false pretexts (9/11, Iraqi nukes etc.). The price they paid was over $10 trillion in costs, thousands of their people killed, damage to their reputation and worst of all, it gave China time to become the biggest economy in the world.
> 
> What did the West gain from the war on Islam? Zero, cero, null.
> 
> Nearly 40% of Americans can’t last a month on savings if they lose their job. Tens of millions don't have health care. The only people who gained were the weapons manufacturers and Israel. The elites are rolling in money while the sheep are barely surviving. People don't seem to know or care that their rulers are 100% controlled by Israel and all policies are made with the interest of Israel in mind.
> 
> Again, we see the same thing happening. Russia could have been an ally but their greatest sin was supporting Syria and Iran and not letting the Zionist elites loot them. So there is war and Russia has to be crushed. The average person is the West will be the one cheering the campaign against Russia, dying in wars, being impoverished by inflation, and becoming homeless if they lose their job.
> 
> This is an Alice in Wonderland world. Up is down, good is bad.



Agreed 100%. The average person is dumb that's why it is easy for the elites to fool everyone over and over. The propaganda machine here is way too strong.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500972120372830211

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## KAL-EL

kingQamaR said:


> Putin knows he wouldn't stand a chance against NATO and has said as much. It's also why he's telling them to keep out on the threat of nuclear destruction.



And then he would be the recipient of nuclear destruction

Putin is many things, but he's not dumb or suicidal.

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## RescueRanger

Paul2 said:


> A 3 star general? How in the world?


If this is true then it just goes to show all is not well if they can’t even muster enough force protection to safeguard senior officers.

It also shows the Ukrainians are definitely getting help from secrets men from various three letter agencies and support from foreign SF types acting as advisors.

Re loss of a general in active combat zone, happens- I myself lost a family member who was a 2 star general during the fighting with the Taliban in SWAT province, Pakistan.

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## Brainsucker

KAL-EL said:


> And then he would be the recipient of nuclear destruction
> 
> Putin is many things, but he's not dumb or suicidal.


Well, but Russia has the largest land territory in the world. Even larger than the whole European minus Russia. In a nuclear exchange against Europe, They can manage to engulf the whole Europe with Nuclear radiation before NATO can reach every metre's of Russian land. So in a nuclear war, European will be extinct first before Russian.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500925697010941957

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## K_Bin_W

KAL-EL said:


> And then he would be the recipient of nuclear destruction
> 
> Putin is many things, but he's not dumb or suicidal.


Well that's easy to find out, just call his bluff and liberate UA.


----------



## 8888888888888

Oldman1 said:


> They will protest and overthrow Putin's installed government if it ever came to that, and then he will have to invade Ukraine again!


He will put them in camps


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500925697010941957



The Western media is busy declaring this as failed campaign while Russia is grabbing territories

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500913696176021505

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500914403943849989

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## ZeEa5KPul

KAL-EL said:


> Putin is many things, but he's not dumb or suicidal.


Too bad Western leaders are both.


----------



## KAL-EL

K_Bin_W said:


> Well that's easy to find out, just call his bluff and liberate UA.



It just may come to that.

But unlike some of you here who act like you control yours (or others) country's military, I have absolutely no power over mine

And have no access to the mighty nuclear codes that control the nuclear Triad.

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## Paul2

RescueRanger said:


> For the glory seekers - stay at home:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine military turns volunteers away as 140K Ukrainians come home to fight Russia
> 
> 
> Although 1.5 million Ukrainians have fled the country amid the Russian invasion, more than 100,000 Ukrainians and others have flocked to Ukraine in order to fight Russian President Vladimir Putin's forces, according to Ukraine Defense Minister Oleksiy Reznikov.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.foxnews.com



I see them having a lot of territorials now, but no armour, or heavy armaments to arm them now.

The best use of them is to send them to southwest to take cities.

Russians show follow patterning: they capture a city, extinguish resistance by regular forces, and then jump to the next one, while leaving only a token force begin to protect supply lines, and control the population/finish off stragglers.

I only seen very light forces on APCs intimidating the population there.

I bet they immediately wrapped their heavier force, and sent it eastward to Marioupol.

100k men with Kalashnikovs can probably do something about few APCs.

Marioupol cutoff will be dreadful for the large Russian formation in the open field.

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## K_Bin_W

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Too bad Western leaders are both.


Big time


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500892214188195840

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## ZeEa5KPul

KAL-EL said:


> It just may come to that.


Not even in your wildest dreams.

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## 925boy

kingQamaR said:


> Putin knows he wouldn't stand a chance against NATO and has said as much. It's also why he's telling them to keep out on the threat of nuclear destruction.


But is this your tootless NATO that just lost in Afghanistan up to win any war against Russia? you just make a blank claim that surely doesnt match reality on the ground now does it? NATO is too scared to fight, all those wapons in Poland will just stay there and Ukraine will get operated on. NATO is mad cuz it talks tough but couldnt match it, now they're sending mercenaries, just like in the syrian war.

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## K_Bin_W

KAL-EL said:


> It just may come to that.
> 
> But unlike some of you here who act like you control yours
> (or others) country's military, I have absolutely no power over mine
> 
> And have no access to the mighty nuclear codes that control the nuclear Triad.


Amreeka did not waste a sec in liberating Kuwait, Eyraq and half a dozen more.. I wonder what happened this time. LMAO..



ZeEa5KPul said:


> Not even in your wildest dreams.


Wet dreams that is..


----------



## zartosht

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> The Western media is busy declaring this as failed campaign while Russia is grabbing territories



Only a fool believes the western media narrative. 

One only needs to look at the map, and absolute desperTion of zionist zelensky. 

Its ironic how baghdad bob became such a cult hit in the west. Little they knew that their own media would put him to shame a few years later

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500940021523783683

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## KAL-EL

K_Bin_W said:


> Amreeka did not waste a sec in liberating Kuwait, Eyraq and half a dozen more.. I wonder what happened this time. LMAO..



Ahh I see now.

You're one of the usual cookie cutter America hater types.

Not worth having any kind of intellectual debate with you. Find someone else to play with. Thanks

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## Primus

RescueRanger said:


> Re loss of a general in active combat zone, happens- I myself lost a family member who was a 2 star general during the fighting with the Taliban in SWAT province, Pakistan.


What was his name?


----------



## kingQamaR

KAL-EL said:


> And then he would be the recipient of nuclear destruction
> 
> Putin is many things, but he's not dumb or suicidal.



Got to be careful, A Cornered rat will fight for its life.

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## K_Bin_W

KAL-EL said:


> Ahh I see now.
> 
> You're one of the usual cookie cutter America hater types.
> 
> Not worth having any kind of intellectual debate with you. Find someone else to play with. Thanks


Lol, the usual rant, come back when amreek liberates UA until then go waste twitter BW.

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## Madni Bappa

West has even disabled dirty video websites in Russia. I wish someone did that for rest world too man. Healtier men. Healthier relationships.

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## KAL-EL

kingQamaR said:


> Got to be careful, A Cornered rat will fight for its life.



Absolutely! 

And I certainly hope it doesn't come to that.


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

KAL-EL said:


> Putin is many things, but he's not dumb or suicidal.



His not dumb but a bit Suicidal cause his Russian which is natural. I honestly don't think Putin is intimidated by NATO at all whatsoever but it is the other way around.. He plays the mad-man role and NATO always takes the grounded guy role and gets out of the way..

I would say China is intimidated by NATO to some degree but not Putin and in fact it is the other way around


----------



## K_Bin_W

Madni Bappa said:


> West has even disabled dirty video websites in Russia. I wish someone did that for rest world too man. Healtier men. Healthier relationships.


LOL 😆


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500225378870345731

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## Flight of falcon

Everyday I see the Ukrainian map shrinking as if it is being swallowed by some shark…..

Meanwhile Twitter is celebrating few tanks that they have managed to destroy. 

Russians have 32000 armoured vehicles !!!!!!

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## beast89



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## Madni Bappa

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500225378870345731


Some team members of Zelensky might be in this too 😂

What if Zelensky is fooling Ukrainians with a green screen from Tel Aviv?? Lmao 😂

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Also @Tamerlane and others trying to manipulate the thread please stop it guys. 

This war is an entity by it's self stop using propaganda means to gather sympathy for one side. 

I am completely neutral in this war and I won't break that for anyone

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## K_Bin_W

beast89 said:


>


Is Russia getting fighters from Chechnya?



Madni Bappa said:


> What if Zelensky is fooling Ukrainians with a green screen from Tel Aviv?? Lmao 😂


I bet he is driving that police car 😀


----------



## kingQamaR

925boy said:


> But is this your tootless NATO that just lost in Afghanistan up to win any war against Russia? you just make a blank claim that surely doesnt match reality on the ground now does it? NATO is too scared to fight, all those wapons in Poland will just stay there and Ukraine will get operated on. NATO is mad cuz it talks tough but couldnt match it, now they're sending mercenaries, just like in the syrian war.



You’ve got it wrong way round mate. Firstly , Ukrainian were never a fully paid up member of Nato Putin knew this. And if anything it’s Putins weakness or his huge army failure to stop all the arms given openly to the Ukrainian forces killing hundred.s of Russian troops armour and planes by nato . So I don’t think your argument really stands up here describing nato as weak if anything they are the more aggressive towards Russia now openly releasing information on each nato member who and how much they are giving to Ukrainian. I said it from the start putin as walked into a war his country will not win.


----------



## Avicenna

KAL-EL said:


> Ahh I see now.
> 
> You're one of the usual cookie cutter America hater types.
> 
> Not worth having any kind of intellectual debate with you. Find someone else to play with. Thanks



It's not cookie cutter hate.

Do yourself a favor and read up on the Russian rationale for war.

And examine the events chronologically for yourself.

Here's a starting point

Check the facts.






There are alot of viewpoints.

But I find his to be the most intellectually honest.

Also, note the date of this talk.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

You gotta respect Zelenskyy the guy is fearless as Kiev is almost besieged his still in his office in Kyiv.. 

*President Zelensky reported that he continues his work in his office at #Kiev , responding to the disinformation of the Russian media. #Rusya #RussiaUkraine #Ukrayna*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500989273411100675

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500944733660659712


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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Foinikas said:


> Have you noticed something about refugees in Ukraine and refugees in Syria?
> 
> Ukrainians: "My family leave,I go back to fight"
> 
> Syrians: "I come here first,my family come later ok"
> 
> View attachment 821807



This poster is constantly provocative but can't handle getting it back and constantly reports you to the mods

throwing stones from a glass house.. If I was to make some thread I would get banned because you would be reporting me so much

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## Foinikas

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> This poster is constantly provocative but can't handle getting it back and constantly reports you to the mods


Why am I "constantly" provocative? I'm stating a fact. About 66,000 Ukrainian men RETURNED to Ukraine from Poland,to fight for their country. Hundreds of thousands of men from the Middle-East,left their countries to go to Europe to avoid fighting for their country. Single men. Just men. Many had their families still in in the Middle-East and went ahead first. 

Yala,if you don't know about it,don't accuse me of being "provocative". About 100,000 Ukrainians even volunteered to defend Kiev. Men send their families away and stay to fight. 

Meanwhile,hundreds of thousands of Syrian,Iraqi,Libyan and Afghan men left their countries to avoid the war. Men of fighting age.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500987270085718016


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## ZeEa5KPul

Foinikas said:


> Why am I "constantly" provocative? I'm stating a fact. About 66,000 Ukrainian men RETURNED to Ukraine from Poland,to fight for their country. Hundreds of thousands of men from the Middle-East,left their countries to go to Europe to avoid fighting for their country. Single men. Just men. Many had their families still in in the Middle-East and went ahead first.
> 
> Yala,if you don't know about it,don't accuse me of being "provocative". About 100,000 Ukrainians even volunteered to defend Kiev. Men send their families away and stay to fight.
> 
> Meanwhile,hundreds of thousands of Syrian,Iraqi,Libyan and Afghan men left their countries to avoid the war. Men of fighting age.


Do you know what the term "forced conscription" means?


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## Foinikas

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Do you know what the term "forced conscription" means?


Yes sir


----------



## 8888888888888

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia has 870 VISUALLY VERIFIED losses.


By twitter posts

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Bayraktar will be out of stock it performed magically for Ukraine to the point where a song for Bayraktar was introduced in Ukraine

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500946729918775302

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## Vergennes

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> His not dumb but a bit Suicidal cause his Russian which is natural. I honestly don't think Putin is intimidated by NATO at all whatsoever but it is the other way around.. He plays the mad-man role and NATO always takes the grounded guy role and gets out of the way..
> 
> I would say China is intimidated by NATO to some degree but not Putin and in fact it is the other way around



NATO isn't intimidated by Russia,if anything Putin agitates the nuclear threat because he knows his armed forces on the conventional matter are utter junk,meanwhile NATO is flooding Ukraine with thousands and thousands of weapons that are decimating russian troops yet he can nothing about it.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

shanipisces2002 said:


> What about Israel attacking palestine now days there is no media outcry about that only Russia attacking Ukraine what hypocrisy and double standards



Where do all of you guys come from this is Ukraine-Russia thread.. Why do the mods let this stuff continue



Vergennes said:


> NATO isn't intimidated by Russia,if anything Putin agitates the nuclear threat because he knows his armed forces on the conventional matter are utter junk,meanwhile NATO is flooding Ukraine with thousands and thousands of weapons that are decimating russian troops yet he can nothing about it.



He doesn't seek direct war but the great question is that NATO needs an endgame plan to take Russia of the playing table for good by annexing it because I can't believe there would be a world where NATO would tolerate Russia's longevity existence but regime changed Russia with smaller borders that is de-nuclearized and under NATO control would benefit the US and that is what they seek and to put it short a model state like Germany or Japan out of Russia in post-ww3


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## 8888888888888

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500885113315508228
> 
> Pentagon assesses Russia has committed nearly 100% of its forces into Ukraine


We did see Russian 203 and 240mm artillery pieces going west on an earlier post. Russia probably sending more divisions to Ukraine.



Vergennes said:


> Seeing how the Russians are struggling,they might reconsider their objectives. Occupying entire Ukraine seems now impossible. Russians even brought parade uniforms with them. "victory parade" will probably have to wait a bit.


They actually can if they go full dictatorship.


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## Gripen9

Madni Bappa said:


>


The beat is catchy... need to add blyat blyat in it

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## Foinikas

Vergennes said:


> NATO isn't intimidated by Russia,if anything Putin agitates the nuclear threat because he knows his armed forces on the conventional matter are utter junk,meanwhile NATO is flooding Ukraine with thousands and thousands of weapons that are decimating russian troops yet he can nothing about it.


Question is why aren't the Russians sending their "good" vehicles to Ukraine? Where are the T-90SMs and the BTRTs and all those dozens of MRAPs they developed and showed in exhibitions? Where is the Armata? The tank modifications with APS and all the "smart weapons"?

Is this how they will fight the West? By sending thousands of BMP-2s,MT-LBs and T-72s while staying out of gas?


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## Wood

Interesting interview from a Ukranian member of Parliament. Apparently Kiev is preparing for a siege and they have stocked food for a couple of weeks

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## Vergennes

Foinikas said:


> Question is why aren't the Russians sending their "good" vehicles to Ukraine? Where are the T-90SMs and the BTRTs and all those dozens of MRAPs they developed and showed in exhibitions? Where is the Armata? The tank modifications with APS and all the "smart weapons"?
> 
> Is this how they will fight the West? By sending thousands of BMP-2s,MT-LBs and T-72s while staying out of gas?



The grime reality is the Russian army is still composed in vast majority of soviet era junk albeit a small part of them are modernized. All the new IFVs,artillery,armatas etc. didn't go into full production mode because of delays and costs which Russia can't afford. Russian army was supposed to field 2300 armatas by 2020. Same goes for navy and air force.

The argument some are giving "they don't send their best units,they send conscripts as cannon fodder" is BS because the russian army doesn't enjoy the same mass as the soviet army and quickly replaceable losses.

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## Gripen9

LeGenD said:


> This is a misconception. The older Ukraine government lost ground in elections due to charges of corruption in large part. Recheck my previous post - I have added sources in it.


Asst. Sec of the State Victoria Nuland on a recorded conversation with the then US amb. to Ukraine essentially identifying members of the coup.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500970659333169155

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## PK784

Major general of Russian army 'liquidated', says Ukraine​A senior Russian army commander has been killed in fighting near Kharkiv, according to Ukraine's ministry of defence.
It says in a statement that Major General Vitaly Gerasimov died alongside a number of other army officers, with others wounded.
He is said to have taken part in previous Russian operations in Chechnya and Syria.
The claims come after Western officials said on Friday that three Russian commanders had so far been killed; including another major general, Andrei Sukhovetsky, apparently shot by a sniper. 
Ukraine also claimed on Monday that more than 11,000 Russian personnel had so far died in the war - with 110 aircraft destroyed.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500998761841152004

Italians delivering more weapons for Ukraine

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500968629747085312

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## Hamartia Antidote

Vergennes said:


> The grime reality is the Russian army is still composed in vast majority of soviet era junk albeit a small part of them are modernized.



Actually I think it might be junk vs junk as I'm sure that's pretty much what the Ukrainians have


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## Microsoft

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Actually I think it might be junk vs junk.



Don't give them perspective they don't like that.


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## RescueRanger

Paul2 said:


> I see them having a lot of territorials now, but no armour, or heavy armaments to arm them now.
> 
> The best use of them is to send them to southwest to take cities.
> 
> Russians show follow pattern: they capture a city, extinguish resistance by regular forces, and then jump to the next one, while leaving only a token force begin to protect supply lines, and control the population.
> 
> I only seen very light forces on APCs intimidating the population there.
> 
> I bet they immediately wrapped their heavier force, and sent it eastward to Marioupol.
> 
> 100k men with Kalashnikovs can probably do something about few APCs.


I’m more concerned about young men from the US and UK mainly coming to Ukraine with false expectations and having no idea an active war zone is like. 

A few things to digest here really since we are on the subject:

1. Ukraine should focus on arming and. Developing it’s national volunteers into reserves and whilst they lack any real resemblance of a military that’s not to say you can’t branch people out based on previous life skills ie mechanics, electricians and plumbers (make good sappers), drivers, anyone with comms experience slap them on radios and BTS maintainance - Russians have been taking our repeater towers and BTS and shot themselves in the foot since they are using short range Moto’s and Baofengs.

2. Foreign volunteers should only be accepted if they are ex military with add on skills such as sappers, medics, SF types - the rest of the Call of Duty types should be thanked and advised to go back home( and I’ll explain why I feel this way).

I’ve already made my position on foreign fighters very clear in a previous post but I strongly feel that the mixed messages from politicians in the west and the soft cuddly messages from the Ukrainians are misleading.

Here is why, judging by some of the videos of volunteers on telegram and elsewhere there are two categories of volunteers joining the Ukrainian foreign legion:

1. Ex military with plenty of experience and seasoned vets 

2. Complete greenhorns who don’t have a clue what they are doing.

Whilst I have explained my concern for combat chasers and disgruntled vets in my previous post and the need to risk manage them post their return - for now I am more concerned about those who’s only introduction to combat are movies and video games.

*To those people who fall into the second category I would like to say the following:

Firstly ask yourself why you are going? Is it for the right reasons?

Pre travel:*

Research where you are going: medical issues there and other associated risks such as the fact that Ukraine is dealing with Multiple Drug Resistant Tuberculosis.
Have you had your teeth checked (dentists won’t be available)
Checked you have all your shots (heb b etc) 
Had a full once over from a doctor to ensure you are fit and well and your sciatica or asthma isn’t going to flare up in the middle of nowhere. 
*Documents: *

have you got all your docs (Poland requires all non Schengen country travellers to have a passport no older than 10 years with a minimum of 6 months validity remaining from the point of entry to the day of your return)
Have you applied for the correct visa(s) - polish visas are incredibly confusing (*I should know I’ve been there).*
Flights: Open return/one way or flex?
Flash money?? 
PCR tests = Poland still needs them. 
Are you vaccinated - if you’re not fully vaccinated (2 shots and a booster) you will be refused entry or required to undergo a 10 day quarantine at your own expense? 
Have you made a will ( yes because there is a high chance you will die)
Have you taken photographs of your face and profile and any tattoos and shared these wit your family or trusted contact 
Have you discussed proof of life safe word with trusted contact or family member back home 
Have you kept your medical history and immunisation record with you on a usb/phone/paper? 
Have you considered a big out plan and how you will extract yourself should things go wrong (and they will).
Insurance? People ignore this. 
Research where you are going- route and mode of transport- have a travel plan of some sort
Write down your blood type and any allergies on the rear of your helmet or on your body armour
*Equipment: 

Comms:* do you have a phone - did you wipe it or get a burner phone

Will your sim work in that part of the world? 
Satcoms or SPOT terminal? do you have or can you afford a sat phone or similar terminal?
Radios: Ukrainians are asking volunteers to bring their own FRS or UHF radio - can you travel from your country of origin with one and so you know how to use it? 
*PPE & Clothing:*

The Ukrainians have expressly stressed that all foreign volunteers are to bring their own PPE (helmet- body armour/ PC etc) so with that in mind:
Do you have the right Clothing for inclement weather including decent thermal layers ? 
How about Weather resistant outers? 
High quality boots: did you break them in? 
Socks & underwear (never leave for a remote place with most enough socks and underwear)
ear muffs 
Cover/lid (hat) a good quality thinsulate beanie hat is a minimum. 
Stockings (yes this works) 
Woollen or insulated gloves 
Neoprene or shooting gloves 
*PPE:*

Once again can you afford body armour - do you know what level of protection you need or the cut of the inserts/plates? I’ve seen a lot of folks on Twitter with steel plate in their carriers - if volunteers are going out and they try to save money do they know the difference between anti spall armour and steel plates that can spall? 
Image attached:








Helmets: do you go for a ASB style helmet to protect your noggin from bumps or are you going to invest in a ballistic helmet?

*Transport: does your country permit the carriage of such equipment in hold luggage? 


Eye and Ear Protection: this is basic stuff but again do you have it? 
Leather gloves / riggers gloves - at least 2 pairs 
Respirators: do you carry one or do you not? Do you know how to use it and take care of it? 
If not the minimum should be a few n95 and partical masks in case you need to help in search and rescue after an explosion or building collapse - also useful when helping in human remain retrieval.
*Food:*

if all you are taking with your is that plate carrier and helmet from eBay and a positive smile you are in for a rude awakening.

These people are at war and food & water among other things will be scarce - the last thing they need is some well intentioned lemon to turn up and become another mouth to feed - be self sufficient.

With that in mind it is important to remember the survival rules of threes:

3 minutes without air 
3 hours without shelter (in harsh climate) 
3 days without water
3 weeks without food
For food the minimum emergency food supply you should take is 72 hours in your grab bag and another 2 weeks supply in your tab/ruck. This sounds like a lot but in reality it isn’t and you can just buy dried food or expensive MREs it’s up to your choice and budget.

*Water: *waterborne diseases can really do a number on your system - so either consider a filter straw system or get a few boxes of coffee filters - a decent rugged canteen and a shit ton of aqua tabs - know how to use them. 

(In an emergency you can also take water from the cistern of a toilet flush- although you will want to purify and filter the water first). 

a few sachets of instant coffee/tea/chock milk and juice mix 
*Tools:*

E-Tool (Shovel) for digging - if you don’t know how valuable this is - you really shouldn’t be going in the first place. 
Knife: any full tang knife is your best friend/ failing that get a decent leather man. 
Glow sticks? Need them? Get a set including IR 
Fire starter kit or similar kit (poor man’s version is to get a waterproof container and store two or three lighters and matchboxes inside) 
Paracord 50 meters 
Flagging table /survey tape (orange)- can be used to mark our UXO /Hazard (but unless people know what they are looking for may be useless). 
Compass & map (topographic)
Handheld GPS terminal 
Sharpie pens
Chalk 
Notepad and pens(pencils) 
Spare batteries 
Flashlight or headlamp 
Elephant tape (duct tape)
Signal mirror and whistle 
*Shelter: *

Sleeping bag 
Ground mat
Bivvy sheet 
Extra paracord 50m
*Hygiene:*

Paper roll or wet wipes (obvious)
Wash kit and tooth brush 
Talcum powder - perf non perfumed 
Roll on deodorant 
Nail clippers 
*Medical(self):*

IFAK: Individual first aid kit with NP airway
Chetosan or similar hemostatic dressing 
Tourniquet x 2 
Sterile syringes /w needles (multiple gauges) 
Spare combat dressing or gauze and rolls 
Blunt tip scissors or EMT shares 
Forceps 
Chest seal (if trained) 
Decompression kit (if trained) 
SAM split or similar portable split 
Salt sachets or hydration tabs 
ORS sachets 2 weeks supply 
Laxatives 
Calcium Tablets 
Broad spectrum antibiotic 
Oral pain relief : Paracetamol 
Anti inflammatory : Ibuprofen
lidocaine cream or spray 
A small packet of cloves or clove oil (excellent temporary pain relief for damaged teeth or cavities and also is an excellent field antibiotic)
Anti Septic cream or powder 
Anti fungal powder
Insect repellant 
Anti bite kit 
Personal medication min x 2 months supply with prescription included 
Spare spectacles in case with prescription written inside case
*Good to have;*

Wind up or battery radio: world band ones are good to keep up with the news
Book: pack a book with you - it can be anything that helps keep you sane and during the periods where it is “HURRY UP AND WAIT”. 
Cigarettes - get local ones even if you don’t smoke as you can use these to barter with especially at checkpoints or with locals 
Chocolate- great morale booster and also can use to barter with 
——

As you can see this is a lot of kit and this is just personal stuff you would be expected to have on you to be moderately self reliant for a short period of time.

Now add to this skill at arms training, map and compass, field craft, being able to identify potential UXOs and basic principles of soldiering - all the basic bread and butter stuff and you can quickly see why letting these young and old well intentioned volunteers join an active war zone is a very bad idea. 

Add to this the language barrier - only 18% of Ukrainians can speak English- this can prose a serious problem during combat where comms is key. 

It’s not just turn up in some eBay tactical gear, grab a gun and yell up yours putin. I seriously worry about them. 

Sorry if digressed but this is a very sore subject for me.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Foinikas said:


> Have you noticed something about refugees in Ukraine and refugees in Syria?
> 
> Ukrainians: "My family leave,I go back to fight"
> 
> Syrians: "I come here first,my family come later ok"
> 
> View attachment 821807




Syrians didn't have the whole world arming them and supporting them. Stop comparing two situations that aren't comparable. It was a planned stalemate to make sure neither side wins the civil war. While both Russia and the West care about the Ukrainian cities and civilians, both powers were flattening Syrian towns and massacring Syrian civilians.

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## RescueRanger

Huffal said:


> What was his name?


Sorry I was distracted in another thread 

Maj Gen. Sanaullah Khan Niazi (Shaheed)

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500961829509636099
Some US Congress members want to strike Russian fighters with electronic and cyber attacks

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Stop comparing two situations



Never feed the troll... Just wait 20m+ will flee Ukraine and today is only 12th day of war.. It has not even barely started let it fester for years and see where things stand then.. We will then have serious talk..

I wanna see consistency, persistance, steadfastness and patience.. Years of grind not a month of engagements or months in that matter that is for pussies.. Show me years or decades of grind

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## Microsoft

France to consider surrendering even before war has begun for them. 




__





Russia-Ukraine conflict spurs more sentiment in France to leave NATO - Global Times







www.globaltimes.cn

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## Tamerlane

Russian side of the story.

*Major military and political developments and major risks next (Excerpts)*

Conclusions:

From the point of view of Russian combat operations, today has been most successful and tomorrow promises an even quicker domino effect on the Ukrainian defenses pretty much everywhere except the far west (what I now call the mini-Banderastan).

Politically, the only important news is that Lavrov and Kuleba are supposed to meet soon.

And yet, I will end with an area of great concern to me.

Here is how I see it and PLEASE tell me I am wrong!


The Ukraine has lost the war, she will be disarmed and denazified
The West is waging total informational and economic war against Russia and believing much of its own propaganda (which is fantastically dangerous!)
The western public has been sold nonsense about the Ukies being at the gates of Moscow and Russia being ready to surrender. Which means that when the reality will become undeniable there will be A LOT of VERY butthurt folks out there pointing fingers.
Economically speaking, Zerohedge put it best: “Carnage everywhere“!
Even much worse will be the folks who will try to still overturn this outcome. I am talking about the true nutcases in NATO (and in some sections of the USA ruling elites) which simply cannot even *imagine* that Russia holds all the cards, including the military one.
I can easily imagine, say, a Polish column with weapons and mercenaries crossing into the Ukraine and being wiped out by Russian missiles. I ask you this: what will NATO do next?
In fact, let me rephrase my question this way: *is it at all possible that this war can end without a direct military confrontation between NATO and Russia, keeping in mind that NATO cannot win and NATO cannot accept defeat?*

Sadly, I don’t think so anymore, that kind of folly is a direct consequence of the Western PSYOPs which have convinced the folks in the West of two crucial things: 1) Russia cannot win and 2) Putin is bluffing.

I think that the folks in the Pentagon are smart enough to know that this is all bull, but the Eurorodents inside NATO and the EU?

Wouldn’t a military/political defeat of NATO in Banderastan not risk bringing down NATO as an organization?

Again, please tell me that I am wrong, but I don’t see how this war can stop before Russia shows NATO that *nobody in Russia is bluffing and that any NATO country dumb enough to test that will be the target of missile strikes.*

So, militarily, this war is pretty much over.

The future of a min-Banderastan is impossible for me to guess.

But I am seriously concerned that this war might expand and directly involve NATO/EU countries.

And it might involve nuclear strikes by either/both sides.

So, please tell me I am wrong and that the West does still have enough brains to step back from this abyss?

Does it?

Andrei

UPDATE: for the first time Russian TV has shown the Donbass operational cauldron. I added the contours of this cauldron in the making with the think black line:

(That blue area is where the Nazi types are surrounded)










__





Major military and political developments and major risks next (UPDATED!) | The Vineyard of the Saker


A bird's eye view of the vineyard




thesaker.is

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## K_Bin_W

Microsoft said:


> France to consider surrendering even before war has begun for them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine conflict spurs more sentiment in France to leave NATO - Global Times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.globaltimes.cn


Well, while Ru spanks on the ground Amreeka spanks on Twitter, what a change. 😀


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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500961829509636099
> Some US Congress members want to strike Russian fighters with electronic and cyber attacks


Why would this not be an act of war?!

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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500968629747085312


And this is why I grow what I eat. 🙂

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## Madni Bappa

Wood said:


> Interesting interview from a Ukranian member of Parliament. Apparently Kiev is preparing for a siege and they have stocked food for a couple of weeks


Kiera Rudik is probably running away in one of those BMWs or Porsche's escorted by Police

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## Wood




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## Paul2

When I was writing my term work for the high school defence class, I picked Russia as a topic because I always had a butthurt in my youth about the outer northeast.

"How to defeat Russia?"

I put forward a paradox: the easiest way to attrition Russia into defeat is to starve it of fuel.

Russia as a country is bathing in oil, and gas, but the infrastructure to deliver hydrocarbons from Siberia, and the South is extremely fragile.

3 blown pipelines, and 1 rail line is enough to make Russia run out of hydrocarbon reserves in 6 months, and much faster if oil stockpiles will be actively sabotaged, or used in warfare.

The lieutenant who was the teacher read it, and told "hide it well"

It's surprising how energy insecure Russia is.

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## beast89

K_Bin_W said:


> Is Russia getting fighters from Chechnya?


10 to 12 thousand already there


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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

The propaganda is getting way out of hand and reaches proportions that are ridiculous and blatant where you can see this is propaganda


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501019395048493060

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## RescueRanger

What won’t make the news today is that there was a massive cyber attack against international calls to Russia where callers where greeted with this message:

"Due to the attack by the fascist Russia on Ukraine, and starting the war.
The current phone call is blocked.

Russian phone call,
go f*** yourself."

Video proof in this tweet:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500289207872339968

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500213584760033293

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500108645656367117

Such an evil people. May Russia destroy the whole Ukrain to the ground. What is wrong with these people? It is like humanity escaped them.

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## zartosht

Captured Ukrainian base with lots of abondoned armor/ammo






Looks like they left in a hurry

Only censored media will show you this.

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## Wood



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## 8888888888888

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500213584760033293
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500108645656367117
> 
> Such an evil people. May Russia destroy the whole Ukrain to the ground. What is wrong with these people? It is like humanity escaped them.


Proof that Neo Nazis are in power

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## Dual Wielder

zartosht said:


> Captured Ukrainian base with lots of abondoned armor/ammo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like they left in a hurry
> 
> Only censored media will show you this.



"This video is not available in your country.." [UK]

what network is it?

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## mmr

Wood said:


>


True leader.

What an inspiration.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500949638458880002

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500609125721559044

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500589595834130440
Thread shows that many Russian celebrities are against the war. They have been reprimanded for publicly stating their opinion against Putin's invasion

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500965668589604872
Oryx has now visually confirmed over 900 Russian losses

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## Wood

Gary Kasprov's take on Putin

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## gambit

Wood said:


> Why would this not be an act of war?!


As of now, any country that supplies weapons to Ukraine can be interpreted under the Geneva Convention as at war against Russia.

Convention (V) respecting the Rights and Duties of Neutral Powers and Persons in Case of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907.

CHAPTER I​​THE RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF NEUTRAL POWERS​​Article 1. The territory of neutral Powers is inviolable.​​Art. 2. Belligerents are forbidden to move troops or convoys of either munitions of war or supplies across the territory of a neutral Power.​​Art. 3. Belligerents are likewise forbidden to:​(a) Erect on the territory of a neutral Power a wireless telegraphy station or other apparatus forthe purpose of communicating with belligerent forces on land or sea;​(b) Use any installation of this kind established by them before the war on the territory of a neutral Power for purely military purposes, and which has not been opened for the service of public messages.​​Art. 4. Corps of combatants cannot be formed nor recruiting agencies opened on the territory of a neutral Power to assist the belligerents.​​Art. 5. A neutral Power must not allow any of the acts referred to in Articles 2 to 4 to occur on its territory. It is not called upon to punish acts in violation of its neutrality unless the said acts have been committed on its own territory.​​Art. 6. The responsibility of a neutral Power is not engaged by the fact of persons crossing the frontier separately to offer their services to one of the belligerents.​​Art. 7. A neutral Power is not called upon to prevent the export or transport, on behalf of one or other of the belligerents, of arms, munitions of war, or, in general, of anything which can be of use to an army or a fleet.​​Art. 8. A neutral Power is not called upon to forbid or restrict the use on behalf of the belligerents of telegraph or telephone cables or of wireless telegraphy apparatus belonging to it or to companies or private individuals.​​Art. 9. Every measure of restriction or prohibition taken by a neutral Power in regard to the matters referred to in Articles 7 and 8 must be impartially applied by it to both belligerents. A neutral Power must see to the same obligation being observed by companies or private individuals owning telegraph or telephone cables or wireless telegraphy apparatus.​​Art. 10. The fact of a neutral Power resisting, even by force, attempts to violate its neutrality cannot be regarded as a hostile act.​​The default position is article 1. Borders are inviolable.

Neutral powers must not allow articles 2 thru 4 on their territories in order for article 1 to be inviolable. But articles 2 thru 4 forbids belligerents, not the neutral powers. What Poland et al are doing are articles 6 thru 8. If anyone want to cross borders to join a belligerent, that does not mean the neutral power is taking a side. Same for weapons. So as long as neither Ukraine nor Russia uses the territory of neutral powers, Poland et al are safe.

The problem is if Russia chose to interpret articles 6 thru 8 differently or even do away with them, thereby dragging everyone who are arming Ukraine into the war. If Poland sends Ukraine its jets, that could constitute taking one side. If Poland merely allows transit of jets destined for Ukraine, that is not taking one side. The legal issues can be murky.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501012167902040067

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## 8888888888888

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501012167902040067


Like another Trade war ?

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## Bleek

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501012167902040067


USA trying to forefully police the world again on what they should do

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## F-22Raptor

gambit said:


> As of now, any country that supplies weapons to Ukraine can be interpreted under the Geneva Convention as at war against Russia.
> 
> Convention (V) respecting the Rights and Duties of Neutral Powers and Persons in Case of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907.
> 
> CHAPTER I​​THE RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF NEUTRAL POWERS​​Article 1. The territory of neutral Powers is inviolable.​​Art. 2. Belligerents are forbidden to move troops or convoys of either munitions of war or supplies across the territory of a neutral Power.​​Art. 3. Belligerents are likewise forbidden to:​(a) Erect on the territory of a neutral Power a wireless telegraphy station or other apparatus forthe purpose of communicating with belligerent forces on land or sea;​(b) Use any installation of this kind established by them before the war on the territory of a neutral Power for purely military purposes, and which has not been opened for the service of public messages.​​Art. 4. Corps of combatants cannot be formed nor recruiting agencies opened on the territory of a neutral Power to assist the belligerents.​​Art. 5. A neutral Power must not allow any of the acts referred to in Articles 2 to 4 to occur on its territory. It is not called upon to punish acts in violation of its neutrality unless the said acts have been committed on its own territory.​​Art. 6. The responsibility of a neutral Power is not engaged by the fact of persons crossing the frontier separately to offer their services to one of the belligerents.​​Art. 7. A neutral Power is not called upon to prevent the export or transport, on behalf of one or other of the belligerents, of arms, munitions of war, or, in general, of anything which can be of use to an army or a fleet.​​Art. 8. A neutral Power is not called upon to forbid or restrict the use on behalf of the belligerents of telegraph or telephone cables or of wireless telegraphy apparatus belonging to it or to companies or private individuals.​​Art. 9. Every measure of restriction or prohibition taken by a neutral Power in regard to the matters referred to in Articles 7 and 8 must be impartially applied by it to both belligerents. A neutral Power must see to the same obligation being observed by companies or private individuals owning telegraph or telephone cables or wireless telegraphy apparatus.​​Art. 10. The fact of a neutral Power resisting, even by force, attempts to violate its neutrality cannot be regarded as a hostile act.​​The default position is article 1. Borders are inviolable.
> 
> Neutral powers must not allow articles 2 thru 4 on their territories in order for article 1 to be inviolable. But articles 2 thru 4 forbids belligerents, not the neutral powers. What Poland et al are doing are articles 6 thru 8. If anyone want to cross borders to join a belligerent, that does not mean the neutral power is taking a side. Same for weapons. So as long as neither Ukraine nor Russia uses the territory of neutral powers, Poland et al are safe.
> 
> The problem is if Russia chose to interpret articles 6 thru 8 differently or even do away with them, thereby dragging everyone who are arming Ukraine into the war. If Poland sends Ukraine its jets, that could constitute taking one side. If Poland merely allows transit of jets destined for Ukraine, that is not taking one side. The legal issues can be murky.




Gambit, for how long can Russia sustain these types of losses and still achieve its military goals? 

900 confirmed losses in 12 days.


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## zartosht

Dual Wielder said:


> "This video is not available in your country.." [UK]
> 
> what network is it?



(Evil) Russia Today RT


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## Oldman1

8888888888888 said:


> He will put them in camps


He can try.


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## Madni Bappa

RescueRanger said:


> What won’t make the news today is that there was a massive cyber attack against international calls to Russia where callers where greeted with this message:
> 
> "Due to the attack by the fascist Russia on Ukraine, and starting the war.
> The current phone call is blocked.
> 
> Russian phone call,
> go f*** yourself."
> 
> Video proof in this tweet:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500289207872339968


Normal everyday Russians do not deserve this treatment.


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## Oldman1

Hack-Hook said:


> You don't need to do that . You need several drones.


Might as well say you need several aircraft.


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## 8888888888888

Oldman1 said:


> He can try.


NATO is doing want it can now with Russian nukes pointing at them. If Russia wants them in camps due to insurgents they can do so.


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## Madni Bappa

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501012167902040067


Bro you're basically gonna have to sanction most of the non white world at this point lmao 😂

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## Oldman1

8888888888888 said:


> NATO is doing want it can now with Russian nukes pointing at them. If Russia wants them in camps due to insurgents they can do so.


I said he can try...



Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Bayraktar will be out of stock it performed magically for Ukraine to the point where a song for Bayraktar was introduced in Ukraine
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500946729918775302


Thats why as I have said in another thread, Ukraine needs to get many before they are out of stock of backlogged.



Flight of falcon said:


> Everyday I see the Ukrainian map shrinking as if it is being swallowed by some shark…..
> 
> Meanwhile Twitter is celebrating few tanks that they have managed to destroy.
> 
> Russians have 32000 armoured vehicles !!!!!!


The Russians can't resupply fuel and ammo with 32k armored vehicles at the same time. Don't even have enough personnel to crew them.


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## Oldman1

RescueRanger said:


> For the glory seekers - stay at home:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine military turns volunteers away as 140K Ukrainians come home to fight Russia
> 
> 
> Although 1.5 million Ukrainians have fled the country amid the Russian invasion, more than 100,000 Ukrainians and others have flocked to Ukraine in order to fight Russian President Vladimir Putin's forces, according to Ukraine Defense Minister Oleksiy Reznikov.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.foxnews.com


Volunteers will have to bring their own supplies and weapons. Or NATO and other European countries supply more small arms. We have millions in the states.


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## gambit

F-22Raptor said:


> Gambit, for how long can Russia sustain these types of losses and still achieve its military goals?
> 
> 900 confirmed losses in 12 days.


Am an Air Force guy, so I try to focus on the air force side of this war. Back in Desert Storm, our airpower went in on the first day and we went in hard and fast. From the start of this war, I have been generous to the Russian Air Force because am looking for some tactics that we have not seen before. But 12 days without the kind of airpower we expects from the Russia is puzzling. We are not seeing anything overwhelming. Ukrainian fighter losses should not have came from a combination of air and ground losses. *ALL* of them should have been ground destroyed. Instead, Ukrainian fighters continues to sortie and make damages. The Russian Air Force is essentially taking potshots at Ukraine. This is unacceptable.

*Air Dominance*. The ability of an air force to compel other air forces to rearray themselves, usually into subordinate postures.

*Air Superiority*. The ability of an air force to achieve tactical control of contested airspace and repeat when necessary. If there are losses, those losses would not be a statistical deterrence to that ability.

*Air Supremacy*. He flies, he dies.

The Russian Air Force is failing all of the above. The Ukrainian Air Force should not be fearful of SAM because Russian SAM sites can be taken out by combined air and ground troops forces. The Ukrainian Air Force should be fearful of the Russian Air Force, and that is not happening. Any more air losses by the Russian Air Force and it *WILL* be the opposite. The US is determined that our ground troops will not face enemy air force and the last time that happened was in WW II. If the Russian Air Force is even weakened, not yet removed, from Ukrainian airspace, the ground war will turn in favor of the Ukrainians, even if they are outnumbered. That supply convoy have not moved in days. That convoy cannot be defended. It must move to survive and serve a purpose. The Ukrainian Air Force do not need to destroy it. If the Ukrainian Air Force managed to get a hold of that convoy, we will see Russian troops abandoning their trucks. Trying to survive air attacks is demoralizing, tiring, and stressful beyond belief. Ask the Iraqis and the Taliban.

Here is my horrible suspicion...

I believe the Russians will trap Ukrainian civilians in order to try to keep the Ukrainian Air Force busy. Defending your fellow countrymen, especially if the bulk of them are women, children, and the elderly will be highest priority. If Ukrainian fighters are busy attacking Russian ground forces in trying to protect civilians, they have to descent to below 5000 ft and *STAY* there and that will leave them vulnerable to SAM and Russian fighters. If this scenario plays out, Russia can drag this war out for weeks even if they take more losses in tanks, trucks, and soldiers.

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## Oldman1

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500909737721876483
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500948151489892355


Corridor to Belarus and Russia is dumb, the Ukrainians won't be able to come back after the war if they go there.



Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> They can take Odessa from the inside which is a major twist


They could but they haven't.


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## Madni Bappa

Nato can't just annex Klaniningrad?


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## Bleek

gambit said:


> Am an Air Force guy, so I try to focus on the air force side of this war. Back in Desert Storm, our airpower went in on the first day and we went in hard and fast. From the start of this war, I have been generous to the Russian Air Force because am looking for some tactics that we have not seen before. But 12 days without the kind of airpower we expects from the Russia is puzzling. We are not seeing anything overwhelming. Ukrainian fighter losses should not have came from a combination of air and ground losses. *ALL* of them should have been ground destroyed. Instead, Ukrainian fighters continues to sortie and make damages. The Russian Air Force is essentially taking potshots at Ukraine. This is unacceptable.
> 
> *Air Dominance*. The ability of an air force to compel other air forces to rearray themselves, usually into subordinate postures.
> 
> *Air Superiority*. The ability of an air force to achieve tactical control of contested airspace and repeat when necessary. If there are losses, those losses would not be a statistical deterrence to that ability.
> 
> *Air Supremacy*. He flies, he dies.
> 
> The Russian Air Force is failing all of the above. The Ukrainian Air Force should not be fearful of SAM because Russian SAM sites can be taken out by combined air and ground troops forces. The Ukrainian Air Force should be fearful of the Russian Air Force, and that is not happening. Any more air losses by the Russian Air Force and it *WILL* be the opposite. The US is determined that our ground troops will not face enemy air force and the last time that happened was in WW II. If the Russian Air Force is even weakened, not yet removed, from Ukrainian airspace, the ground war will turn in favor of the Ukrainians, even if they are outnumbered. That supply convoy have not moved in days. That convoy cannot be defended. It must move to survive and serve a purpose. The Ukrainian Air Force do not need to destroy it. If the Ukrainian Air Force managed to get a hold of that convoy, we will see Russian troops abandoning their trucks. Trying to survive air attacks is demoralizing, tiring, and stressful beyond belief. Ask the Iraqis and the Taliban.
> 
> Here is my horrible suspicion...
> 
> I believe the Russians will trap Ukrainian civilians in order to try to keep the Ukrainian Air Force busy. Defending your fellow countrymen, especially if the bulk of them are women, children, and the elderly will be highest priority. If Ukrainian fighters are busy attacking Russian ground forces in trying to protect civilians, they have to descent to below 5000 ft and *STAY* there and that will leave them vulnerable to SAM and Russian fighters. If this scenario plays out, Russia can drag this war out for weeks even if they take more losses in tanks, trucks, and soldiers.


But why do you think they are failing at all of those things stated?

Considering their fleet, shouldn't they be able to achieve that?


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## Oldman1

Bleek said:


> But why do you think they are failing at all of those things stated?
> 
> Considering their fleet, shouldn't they be able to achieve that?


If they are having problems with logistics and not maintaining their vehicles, I suspect they are having the same problem with the aircraft they sent into this operation. I mean they have a vast army personnel, million strong, but only 200k were sent for this operation alone. Same thing, they can't send all their aircraft in this theater because they are assigned somewhere else.


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## 8888888888888

Putin probably wants to drag this war on ? Killing as much as anti Russian Ukrainians as they can ?

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## Oldman1

8888888888888 said:


> Putin probably wants to drag this war on ? Killing as much as anti Russian Ukrainians as they can ?


LOL why? Nope, he lost the initiative. Tried to tell the Ukrainian government to unconditional surrender and Ukrainian military to overthrow the government on the 2nd day of the war. That all failed.

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## kingQamaR

To quote: "Moscow claims that 'humanitarian corridors' are being opened out of Mariupol, Kharkiv, Sumy and Kyiv this morning to allow hundreds of thousands of civilians to evacuate" "Important detail - the routes go into either Belarus or Russia." Said the spider to the fly.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Another abandoned Ukrainian base


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## Oldman1

kingQamaR said:


> To quote: "Moscow claims that 'humanitarian corridors' are being opened out of Mariupol, Kharkiv, Sumy and Kyiv this morning to allow hundreds of thousands of civilians to evacuate" "Important detail - the routes go into either Belarus or Russia." Said the spider to the fly.


Not to mention bringing in his own people to replace them.

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## kingQamaR

Russians were just to over optimistic on Ukraine

Stalin policies of 19th century forced displacing of locals with Russians added with fake history of Russian past

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## Microsoft

Oldman1 said:


> They will protest and overthrow Putin's installed government if it ever came to that, and then he will have to invade Ukraine again!



Most seemed happy to be leaving their country so much so they had to enforce a ban on men aged 18-*60. *so they would have some people to defend the cities. Then the media can call them civilian casualties.


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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Such an evil people. May Russia destroy the whole Ukrain to the ground. What is wrong with these people? It is like humanity escaped them.




Wishing a country with 40 million people to be destroyed : " destroy the whole Ukrain to the ground " and than speak about " humanity " in the same sentence.

Just WOW.


~

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## Oldman1

Microsoft said:


> Most seemed happy to be leaving their country so much so they had to enforce a ban on men aged 18-*60. *so they would have some people to defend the cities. Then the media can call them civilian casualties.


Only at the beginning of the war, but now you have tens of thousands of Ukrainians that were outside when it happened rushing to get back in, not to mention many volunteers who are veterans or trained.

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## kingQamaR

Microsoft said:


> Most seemed happy to be leaving their country so much so they had to enforce a ban on men aged 18-*60. *so they would have some people to defend the cities. Then the media can call them civilian casualties.



Did all the afghans remained in Afghanistan to fight or did we not get millions entering Pakistan to be safe. War is not for everyone people behave differently in crisis

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## srshkmr

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501012167902040067


Good knowing everyone here. Green is not my color. I prefer blue 🥲


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500858799497924612

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## srshkmr

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500858799497924612


 As long as it can shoot down other aircrafts and bomb the positions, it doesn’t matter if it uses a commercial GPS or a magnetic compass

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## That Guy

Iron Shrappenel said:


> Heck yes.... This is a learning curve not only for the Russians but also all audience and decision makers in the top brass around the world... We will see doctrine changes....
> Other " side effects " of the war maybe reverse engineering of equipment from both sides... Especially NLAWs and Javelins.... And the Russians won't be so merciful to the Europeans and Nato in there next venture as well...


The next venture, if there even is a next venture, won't happen for literally decades. Russia will be spending the next 20 to 30 years rebuilding what they lost, both military and economy.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501056584134320129


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## khansaheeb

kingQamaR said:


> To quote: "Moscow claims that 'humanitarian corridors' are being opened out of Mariupol, Kharkiv, Sumy and Kyiv this morning to allow hundreds of thousands of civilians to evacuate" "Important detail - the routes go into either Belarus or Russia." Said the spider to the fly.


So they will be prisoners of war?


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## alimobin memon

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500858799497924612


There are multiple examples where traditional methods over highly effective ones tend to work great.


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## kingQamaR

khansaheeb said:


> So they will be prisoners of war?



Who knows, why Putin and his henchmen do this! 

Maybe use them as a bargaining chip or just stop them from telling outsiders of Russian crimes in indiscriminate attacks on them

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501075789525225475

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## Song Hong

West Ukraine has tradition of joining Nazi to kill Russians. 

Not good.

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## Enigma SIG

Madni Bappa said:


> Nato can't just annex Klaniningrad?




__
https://www.reddit.com/r/HolUp/comments/t93z8l

Biden doing what he said decades earlier.

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## kingQamaR

Song Hong said:


> West Ukraine has tradition of joining Nazi to kill Russians.
> 
> Not good.
> 
> View attachment 821830



Yes it would to all you Putin trolls. Russia = the world masters of disinformation and propaganda along with China. They have perfected the art of it.

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## 8888888888888

Need to note down he is not an expert at economics.

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## Madni Bappa

8888888888888 said:


> Need to note down he is not an expert at economics.

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## SIPRA

Enigma SIG said:


> Biden doing what he said decades earlier.



Now, Biden is nothing more than a "Gawaachi Gaan" (Lost Cow).

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## Patriot forever

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500793168060727298

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## Saho

Zibago said:


> Muslims


Upgraded version

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## Enigma SIG

SIPRA said:


> Now, Biden is nothing more than a "Gawaachi Gaan" (Lost Cow).


Trust me when I say this: That senile pae** knows exactly what he's doing.

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## 8888888888888

Madni Bappa said:


> View attachment 821831


He is better than a keyboard warrior.


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## bobo6661

Song Hong said:


> West Ukraine has tradition of joining Nazi to kill Russians.


you mean like those
German officer with the Russian Liberation Army (ROA) soldiers and Orthodox priests.​





or like those ?





Theres much more of other nazi russians from military groups like wagner or the donetsk separatists

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500968793299894275

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500939069412491270

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500949095317450752

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## Clutch

How Badly Vladimir Putin Miscalculated Russia's Invasion Of Ukraine ​

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## 8888888888888

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500968793299894275^ Alright then...


Could be true, one video shot of an arty attack on the civilians was too conveniently at the right place and time



Clutch said:


> How Badly Vladimir Putin Miscalculated Russia's Invasion Of Ukraine ​


Not done by an ex military vet.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500962442532241414

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500886096837849099^ Yes, you read it correctly.

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## Hack-Hook

Oldman1 said:


> Might as well say you need several aircraft.


aircraft operation is expensive and they can't have 24/7hours surveillance of drones.
drones can stay up there and direct your forces to where its needed , tell you what happens there before entering there , and if needed can engage target .
they are cheep to operate and if you fly at 7km pretty much no stinger can engage them even be aware of their existence . and even by chance you lose one no big deal


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## Paul2

Day 13, Russians still trying to regroup for assault on Kiyv. Some massive airborne last ditch staging happening in Minsk.

Stalemate across much of the country.

A last reserve of 7 BTGs bypassed Kharkiv, and Sumy by going through empty fields.

Russians have now switched to bigger formations in many places, and no longer rout after losing a single vehicle in a convoy.

These slightly bigger formations still get scattered when met with enough firepower like a coordinated ATGM ambush, artillery strikes, or tanks, but Ukraine lacks that everywhere except for their defence strongpoints.

In other words, Ukraine really needs to get 1 more functioning division free of defence duties some way to regain the initiative. Too much defence now, when they can really be pushing them back where they stretched thin, and regaining ground.


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## Madni Bappa

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501075789525225475


If we end up getting cut off from Western and Turkish helicopters. Definitely get Russian Ka or Mi28. We need heavier helicopters. Z10 is pretty light man.


ALSO:
Hungarians saying they don't want mufft ka phadda with Roosya. They're not willing to end gas and oil purchase from Roosya


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## Clutch

*Russia’s Air Force Can’t Own the Skies Over Ukraine. We Know Why*





By
Sandboxx News

Published
5 mins ago

Su-57 Fighter Russia
Su-57 Fighter. Image Credit: Creative Commons.

*Why can’t Russia’s might Air Force dominate over Ukraine?* The reason are complicated: As experts the world over continue to try to divine why Russia has failed to capture air dominance over Ukraine nearly two weeks into the fighting, stories, pictures and videos of Russian aircraft being downed by Ukraine’s military continue to surface. It would seem that popular perceptions of Russia’s military—which have been intentionally shaped by Moscow for years—are beginning to unravel as Russian forces pour further into its embattled neighbor.

*On paper, Russia’s Air Force outnumber Ukraine’s by more than 20 to 1*, and while no one expected Russia to send every combat aircraft they have into Ukraine, Russia’s inability to dominate the skies despite such a massive numbers advantage, and *while further bolstered by advanced surface-to-air defense systems like the S-400* is hard to wrap your head around.


Regardless of the reasons behind Russia’s failure to secure air supremacy, the nation’s inability to do so has allowed for valuable tactical and political victories for Ukraine over the past two weeks, from the legends of a Ukrainian ACE MiG-29 pilot known as the Ghost of Kyiv inspiring Ukrainians and others around the world, to stories of small Ukrainian drones destroying Russian armor in a 40-kilometer long traffic jam of Russian hardware headed toward Kyiv.

Because of Russia’s dominant numbers, the story tends to be focused on what Russia’s doing wrong, but that shouldn’t discount the incredible bravery and heroism shown by Ukrainian warfighters and civilians alike, often using man-portable anti-air weapons (MANPADs) to take on Russian aircraft directly. And not to be dismissed either are the incredible Ukrainian pilots, men and women like the Grey Wolf—who was shot down near Kyiv last week—who are taking to the sky despite overwhelming odds to square off with some of Russia’s best as they defend their nation.

Russia’s Air Force isn’t facing one problem, but a symphony of them

Numerous arguments have surfaced to explain Russia’s lack of air supremacy, from their lack of precision ordnance limiting the pace of sorties to Russian pilots’ and air defense system operators lacking combat competency—making the chances of friendly fire too high. In an excellent piece of analysis from the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI), research fellow Justin Bronk offers a number of insights into Russia’s air superiority struggle. While the article warrants reading, here are some important conclusions from Bronk’s essay:


*Russia’s small stockpile and long resupply timelines for precision-guided munitions* have limited their air force’s ability to conduct viable strike missions. As Bronk points out, this isn’t just a problem today, but also means Russian pilots have very limited experience leveraging these types of weapons.

*A lack of targeting pods makes precision strikes difficult, meaning most fixed-wing assets* may be waiting for authorization to commence Russia’s more traditional approach of unguided bombardments.

Russia may be uncertain of its ability to deconflict in a target-saturated environment, as evidenced by Russia’s history of friendly fire incidents.

*Lack of pilot training makes Russian aviators less capable and competent* in such a volatile combat environment, meaning they may not be comfortable using some of the most advanced systems at their disposal.

In another story from The Aviationist, defense analyst Guy Plopsky offers some further explanation for Russia’s inability to dominate the skies over Ukraine, adding to Bronk’s list. Plopsky highlights how some Ukrainian air defense systems seem to still be in operation days after the war began, and points to *Russia’s lack of a dedicated suppression of enemy air defenses (SEAD) platform akin to America’s Wild Weasel F-16s*, which are modified specifically for their role in hunting down and destroying air defense systems.






“On this note, while Russia’s operational-tactical aviation includes many aircraft types capable of employing anti-radiation missiles, it lacks a dedicated SEAD platform. There are no Russian ‘Wild Weasels,’” Plopsky explains.

*A lack of a dedicated SEAD platform and training alone isn’t the culprit, but it may be when added to Russia’s very slow processing of strike packages* followed by even slower battle assessments of those strikes, Plopsky points out. In short, Russia’s approach to attacking air defenses is proving rather ineffective.

The most logical explanation, as laid out by experts around the world, seems to be an unwieldy combination of problems, some of which are related to the current fighting, and many of which can likely be attributed to Russia’s funding priorities in recent years.

*Russia’s military prioritizes perception of capability over actual capability*

As we’ve covered time and time again at Sandboxx News, *Russia has devoted a huge amount of resources into converting its defense apparatus into a rolling advertising platform for foreign weapons and equipment sales.* The nation’s stagnating economy, already struggling under international sanctions, has severely limited Russia’s ability to modernize its military force. But Russia has continued to fund the development of new weapons and systems aimed at garnering a great deal of attention, rather than focusing on maintaining or improving its existing equipment fleets. Why would Russia do such a thing?

*Well, to put it simply, Russia just can’t afford to mass-produce advanced platforms like the Su-57 stealth fighter or T-14 Armata tank without foreign interests footing the bill.

Russia’s annual defense budget floats at right around $60 billion* annually, but to be fair, that figure can be a bit misleading. Russia spends less on just about everything across the board, from salaries and benefits for personnel to manufacturing and material costs, but even when accounting for these discrepancies, their total spending power is still a mere fraction of America’s or China’s.






We’ve discussed before how China hides a great deal of its defense spending behind the guise of domestic programs, as well as how China pays its troops significantly less than other developed nations, but even if we didn’t include those factors, China’s claimed budget remains nearly three-times that of Russia’s.

But whenever the media covers advanced military capabilities like stealth fighters or hypersonic weapons, Russia is presented not just as a peer to big spenders in the East and West, but it’s often even suggested that Russia may be ahead of the United States in developing and fielding new technologies. This isn’t just the result of wanton sensationalism in Western media (though that certainly plays a role), it’s important to remember that this hype is a product of Russian design.




Reflexive Control and stealth fighters

*The Kremlin’s approach to information operations (IO) has long been based on the Reflexive Control methodology* that’s taught in Russian military academies and leveraged within Russian military doctrine.

“Reflexive control is a ‘uniquely Russian’ concept based on maskirovka, an old Soviet notion in which one ‘conveys to an opponent specifically prepared information to incline him/her to voluntarily make the predetermined decision desired by the initiator of the action’. That is, reflexive control is a sustained campaign that feeds an opponent select information so that the opponent makes the decisions that one wants him/her to. “

“Disinformation and Reflexive Control: The New Cold War” by Annie Kowalewski; published by the Georgetown Security Studies Review

Reflexive Control is usually brought up in conversations about Russia’s efforts to meddle in foreign elections, sew discord in foreign populations, or discredit efforts to hold Russia accountable for its aggressive actions, but it has proven just as effective in managing perceptions of Russia’s military-industrial complex in recent years.

The Kremlin is well aware of how the world’s media reports on advanced military technologies, leaning hard on sensationalized headlines based on national or manufacturer claims and almost always without any broader context into the history or potential use of the new hardware. *When Russia unveiled their new Su-75 Checkmate—said to be a budget-busting stealth fighter many compared to America’s F-35—we saw the media* flood the world with coverage, highlighting what Russia says this new fighter will do and comparing it to what we know (or believe) other 5th generation platforms are capable of.

*But was the fervor surrounding Checkmate actually justified?* Russia unveiled what proved to be a largely wooden mock-up of what this notional fighter might look like if one is ever built, but as far as most of the world’s coverage was concerned, Russia might as well have already put this jet into production. The media wasn’t forced to report as such, nor were they colluding with Moscow. It’s just a matter of the modern media industry and Russia’s willingness and ability to manipulate it for their own ends.

The truth, however, is that Russia’s Checkmate is currently nothing more than a design on a sheet of paper. To date, Russia has struggled to kick-start production on their existing stealth fighter, the Su-57 Felon. In fact, while the U.S. and China both operate stealth fighter fleets with unit counts in the triple digits, Russia has only 12 hand-built prototypes and 2 serial production stealth fighters in all.

Without a foreign investor willing to pay to build the Checkmate, we’ll likely see it follow in the Felon’s footsteps… with a token number of hand-built jets flown in parades and called “highly capable” as Russia continues to court partners with deeper pockets.

Russia knows exactly how to stir the media into a frenzy over dramatic new advances in military technology, but it’s also well aware of how the media won’t be nearly as interested in corrections to come weeks or months later. Russia’s Uran-9 ground combat drone, for instance, was deployed to Syria with great fanfare for Russia. Months later, when reports of the drone’s repeated and egregious failures finally bubbled to the surface, media coverage of its failure was simply drowned out by the trending outrages and anxieties of the day.

*Russia’s first hypersonic weapon, the Kh-47M2 Kinzhal, is another excellent example. It’s actually a 1988-era Iskander short-range ballistic missile married to a new targeting apparatus* and mounted on a dated fighter (the MiG-31). Once again, Russia’s stockpile of Kinzhals is reportedly limited to just 10 weapons, but that hasn’t stopped outlet after outlet from reporting on them as though the Kinzhal represents a significant leap in Russian weapons technology.
Su-35 Russia

Su-35 fighter. Image Credit: Creative Commons.

*With so little money to go around, Russia’s heavy investment in problem-ridden but headline-grabbing programs like nuclear-powered cruise missiles, stealth fighters, infantry drones, UCAVs, nuclear drone torpedoes, hypersonic weapons, and others has clearly come at the expense of modernizing or even maintaining large swaths of the force.*

After nearly two weeks of fighting over Ukraine, that problem with priorities seems to extend into Russia’s air power apparatus, substantiating conclusions others have made about a lack of training, a lack of precision weapons, and a lack of capability to conduct complex operations in a hectic environment.

Russia still poses a threat, despite its failings

The problem with writing stories like this, especially while Russian forces continue to push into Kyiv, is that our modern upvote/downvote culture struggles to appreciate the nuance in saying Russia is not nearly as capable as they may seem but are also capable enough to warrant concern. As such, demonstrating Russia’s ineffectual approach to military priorities might read a lot like a dismissal of the threat Russia poses to the U.S., its allies, or its interests at large.

That isn’t the case. Instead, this sort of analysis is aimed at ensuring our efforts to mitigate Russia’s threats are based on the reality of their capabilities, rather than public perceptions of them.

Russia’s military, despite floundering in Ukraine, remains among the largest in the world, and of course, Russia’s nuclear arsenal is nothing to be dismissed. But concerns about Russia expanding this conflict into a global war, invading Europe, or taking on the United States are based more on Russia’s hard-earned perception of might than on Russia’s mediocre military reality.
Russian Military

Image Credit: Russian Military.
Russia New Stealth Fighter

Image of Russia’s Su-57 fighter. Creative Commons.

*Russia’s massive collection of air assets could feasibly lay waste to huge swaths of Ukraine *if ordered to do so. The nation boasts the airframes and ordnance necessary, but blanketing the nation in unguided bombs has—thus far—not been a part of Putin’s plan to quickly replace Ukraine’s government with a friendly asset. Their inability to perform complex operations with high precision shouldn’t be seen as an inability to kill thousands if their objectives shift.

*But to be clear, Russia should have already been able to secure air dominance over Ukraine without resorting to carpet-bombing anything that even resembles an air-defense system or soldier carrying a MANPAD*. *The fact that they haven’t is a solid argument in favor of the idea that… maybe they simply lack the ability to do so, lack faith in their troops to pull it off, or lack the training necessary to succeed.*

*In any regard, the perceptions of Russia’s military prowess are finally starting to align with Russia’s military reality, and nowhere is that more clear than in the skies over Ukraine. *

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## Madni Bappa

Paul2 said:


> Day 13, Russians still trying to regroup for assault on Kiyv. Some massive airborne last ditch staging happening in Minsk.
> 
> Stalemate across much of the country.
> 
> A last reserve of 7 BTGs bypassed Kharkiv, and Sumy by going through empty fields.
> 
> Russians have now switched to bigger formations in many places, and no longer rout after losing a single vehicle in a convoy.
> 
> These slightly bigger formations still get scattered when met with enough firepower like a coordinated ATGM ambush, artillery strikes, or tanks, but Ukraine lacks that everywhere except for their defence strongpoints.


Any Central Asian troops called in as reinforcement??


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## RescueRanger

8888888888888 said:


> Need to note down he is not an expert at economics.

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## Clutch

​


​* Putin’s biggest mistake of the Ukraine war? Trusting the Western financial system *​ 
Published: March 7, 2022 11.32pm EST

 Peter Martin, _Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University_ 





 

 

 

 

 

The West is arraying financial weapons never deployed before against a country of Russia’s size, forsaking some of the principles that have defined it.
Part of what has defined the West – and most of what has been the world’s engine of prosperity for the past century and a half – has been the free flow of goods across borders, a working banking system, and property rights.
There’s been an implicit understanding that no sizeable nation (Russia’s economy is about the size of Australia’s) would be denied access to these things. Otherwise the financial system wouldn’t be the financial system.
That seems to have been the understanding of Russian President Vladimir Putin. But ten days ago, the West did the unthinkable, and the global financial system may never be the same again.
Join thousands of Canadians who subscribe to free evidence-based news.​Russia’s vast war chest​
Over the seven years since Putin last invaded Ukraine (and annexed Crimea) in 2014, Russia’s central bank has almost doubled its holdings of foreign currency and foreign bonds and gold, building up a reserve of US$630 billion at a considerable cost to the living standards of ordinary Russians.


It was a war chest that would enable Russia to continue to buy things that could only be bought in foreign currency, even if customers overseas refused to trade with it and supply it with that currency. It was Russia’s insurance policy.



_ * Read more: 'Just short of nuclear': these sanctions will cripple Russia's economy * _



And although it could have been stored in Russia, much of it was kept in banks in the UK, Western Europe and the US, for easy access when it was needed to buy things on those markets.


Whatever his other suspicions of the West, Putin seemed to think its financial system wouldn’t be turned off – not to a nation of Russia’s size.


China will learn from Russia’s mistake​
On February 27 the West froze the assets and travel of named oligarchs and Russian officials, as was expected.


Also, and less expected, it stopped named Russian banks from accessing the messaging system used to transfer money across borders, ensuring they were “disconnected from the international financial system”.


And, much less expected, it froze the reserves of Russia’s central bank stored in France, Germany, Italy, the United Kingdom, Canada, and the US – the hundreds of billions of savings legitimately placed in foreign banks for safekeeping.



_ * Read more: US-EU sanctions will pummel the Russian economy – two experts explain why they are likely to stick and sting * _



That action broke the bond of trust that makes a bank a bank. And while effective – Russia can’t get access to hundreds of billions of foreign dollars it has painstakingly built up to buy supplies and support the ruble on currency markets – it can only be done at this scale once.


China will have taken note and won’t be entrusting any more foreign assets to banks in France, Germany, Italy, the UK and the US than it can afford to lose.


Freezing foreign reserves has been done before – but only to the less powerful nations like Iran, Afghanistan and Venezuela. This is the first time it’s ever been done to a member of the G20 or the UN Security Council.


The battle of the fridge vs the TV​
The ruble has collapsed 40%. Denied access to the foreign currency it would need to support the ruble in the market, Russia’s central bank has attempted to stem the tide by more than doubling its key interest rate, lifting it from 9.5% to 20%.



*The ruble falls off a cliff*






Fraction of a ruble per US cent. Trading Economics 






Russia has blocked Russians from sending money abroad, stopped paying foreigners interest payments on government debt and required every Russian firm earning dollars to hand over 80% of them in exchange for rubles.


For ordinary Russians, there’s a “battle of the fridge versus the television”: the stark contrast between the reality of daily life against the claims of state media.


Until recently, Russian TV wasn’t even using the word “war” (although it has started). The television has been telling Russians things are normal.


But Russians’ fridges, ATMs, and their blocked Visa, Mastercard and ApplePay accounts are all telling them something else.


From buying a washing machine to getting a mortgage, an awful lot is suddenly expensive or unavailable. But official polls (for what they are worth) show public support for the “special military operation”. Television has been using the realities of shortages and price increases to attack the West for becoming anti-Russian.


Hitting Russia’s elite and military where it hurts​
Whatever ordinary Russians actually think about the war, the impact of the West’s unprecedented sanctions on the Russian elite is likely to matter more. No longer able to travel aboard, access their offshore savings or pay the school fees of their children abroad, the oligarchs have at least the potential to exert influence.


The final way in which the financial embargo might succeed is by starving Russia of foreign exchange to the point where it can’t buy spare parts for its military or the computer chips and other materials needed to make those parts.



_ * Read more: Russian sanctions are biting harder than imagined, and it'll get worse * _



There’s every chance none of these will work quickly, every chance they will further impoverish Russians, and every chance that, if Russia subjugates Ukraine, the West will find the sanctions impossible withdraw without losing face.


The global financial system changed when the West did the barely thinkable on February 27. It’s hard to see a way back.


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## Paul2

Madni Bappa said:


> Any Central Asian troops called in as reinforcement??



I guess no, Kazakhstan also launched some suspicious "drills" few weeks ago, but so far no movement, probably seeing how bad Russians are faring.


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## Goritoes

Propaganda is hard on this one...

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## Clutch

Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission
Dave Lawler

Dave Lawler




Civilians attempt to evacuate from the Kyiv suburb of Irpin. Photo: Aaris Messinis/AFP via Getty

Vladimir Putin likely won't be able to take Kyiv without destroying much of the city and subjecting its population to a brutal siege, military analysts say. But Putin has a track record of doing just that.

Why it matters: U.S. and Ukrainian officials believe that Putin's primary focus remains on Kyiv, even after his plans to swiftly take the city and force a capitulation from the government were thwarted. The city's defenders — soldiers and civilians alike — are very hostile to the invaders and bracing for a fight.

On the ground: Residents of Kyiv are stocking up on food, medicine, and other essentials in preparation for a siege, says Parliament member Maryan Zablotskyy from President Volodymyr Zelensky’s party, and who remains in the city.

In addition to the army and police force, around 30,000 Kyiv residents volunteered to defend the city and have received guns, he says.
“So basically, Kyiv is turning into a fortress, and everybody is expecting a major assault on Kyiv,” he tells Axios.

Data: Institute for the Study of War; Map: Jared Whalen/Axios

12 days into the war, there has been fighting on the city's outskirts and bombing closer to the center, but a senior Pentagon official told reporters today that “the main advance is still stalled outside the city.”

Flashback: Michael Kofman, a leading expert on Russia’s military at the Center for Naval Analyses, says that watching an enormous Russian convoy move slowly toward Kyiv to help encircle the city is giving him “very bad Grozny 1999 vibes" — a reference to the notoriously brutal Russian bombardment and capture of the Chechen capital.

By the time Putin, newly installed as president, declared the city “liberated,” it was by the UN’s estimation “the most destroyed city on Earth.”
Kofman says Putin's bombardments of Grozny and Aleppo in Syria suggest he would be willing to "level" Kyiv. "If you don’t think that’s true you haven’t been following Vladimir Putin’s track record.”
Kofman is expecting a massive artillery and air assault on the city once the Russian forces are in position. 

Yes, but: “Even if they try and reduce the city to rubble, you can still fight from rubble if you really want to,” says Rob Lee of the Foreign Policy Research Institute and who is another close observer of the Russian war effort.

He says encircling Kyiv will require a massive Russian force that could then be vulnerable to counterattacks. Troops that enter the city would be at a disadvantage in street-by-street fighting.
"If you’re trying to occupy a country that doesn’t want to be occupied, your prospects are always going to be poor,” Lee says.
He also thinks the Russians will be operating on a timeline, both because of the difficulties of sustaining and supplying their operation and because of domestic pressure over the war and its economic fallout.

The aftermath, in Grozny. Photo: Antoine Gyori/Sygma via Getty Images

What to watch: The Pentagon official said Russian forces are trying to “seal off the eastern part of the country” to prevent the large Ukrainian force there from joining the defense of Kyiv.

Some Russian forces fighting in the east could also join the effort to encircle Kyiv once they have taken Kharkiv, the official added.
The U.S. and European countries are working to provide weapons and other supplies while it’s still possible to get them into the capital.
Even killing or capturing Zelensky would be unlikely to end the battle. Secretary of State Tony Blinken said Sunday that Ukraine has a "continuity of government" plan. 

Driving the news: At least four civilians attempting to evacuate the Kyiv suburb of Irpin were killed by Russian shelling on Sunday. On Monday, at least 13 civilians were reportedly killed when a bakery in another suburb was struck.

The Pentagon official said Russia has now deployed "nearly 100%" of its amassed forces into Ukraine and launched over 625 missiles.

The bottom line: Like Ukraine as a whole, Kyiv would be difficult to take and more difficult to hold. But if there is a prolonged battle for Kyiv, the Ukrainian people will bear the brunt of the suffering.


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## Madni Bappa

Paul2 said:


> I guess no, Kazakhstan also launched some suspicious "drills" few weeks ago, but so far no movement, probably seeing how bad Russians are faring.


On Twitter there were videos showing Kazak motorized units moving towards Ukraine. 


Could be fake news using footage from recent instability in Kazakhstan


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## Iron Shrappenel

That Guy said:


> The next venture, if there even is a next venture, won't happen for literally decades. Russia will be spending the next 20 to 30 years rebuilding what they lost, both military and economy.


There are many other competitors that the west will face... The world is going to turn multipolar whether it likes it or not.


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## LeGenD

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Do you know what the term "forced conscription" means?


Do you have proof? Maybe many want to fight for their country?



Gripen9 said:


> Asst. Sec of the State Victoria Nuland on a recorded conversation with the then US amb. to Ukraine essentially identifying members of the coup.








Consortium News Bias and Reliability | Ad Fontes Media


Ad Fontes Media rates Consortium News, an online investigative news magazine, as hyper-partisan left in terms of bias and mixed reliability...




adfontesmedia.com

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## alimobin memon

Armenia had tor and BUK m1's too, right ? that TB2 Bayraktar footage of Ukrainian's destroying convoy could actually be of Armenian's. Russia knows how vulnerable ground systems and tanks are to tb2 why would Russia risk it ? 

The way convoys are destroyed and systems like Pantsir S1 abandoned seems like footage of abandoned systems. Could be videos of exercises in terrain closer to Ukraine.


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## Ashesh

I don’t know who lies more: Ukraine or NATO

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## RescueRanger

This time the sanctions have gone too far:









Adidas Halts Sales in Russia and Appoints New China Manager


Adidas AG halted sales in Russia, following other athletic-wear makers like Puma SE and Nike Inc. in response to the country’s invasion of Ukraine.




www.bloomberg.com





I can already imagine an army of angry Gopniks running down the Addidas HQ armed with 2 litre bottles of cheap light beer:

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## CAPRICORN-88




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## Ashesh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501115194826764288

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## 8888888888888

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 821848


Someone is not happy



Clutch said:


> Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission
> Dave Lawler
> 
> Dave Lawler
> View attachment 821851
> 
> Civilians attempt to evacuate from the Kyiv suburb of Irpin. Photo: Aaris Messinis/AFP via Getty
> 
> Vladimir Putin likely won't be able to take Kyiv without destroying much of the city and subjecting its population to a brutal siege, military analysts say. But Putin has a track record of doing just that.
> 
> Why it matters: U.S. and Ukrainian officials believe that Putin's primary focus remains on Kyiv, even after his plans to swiftly take the city and force a capitulation from the government were thwarted. The city's defenders — soldiers and civilians alike — are very hostile to the invaders and bracing for a fight.
> 
> On the ground: Residents of Kyiv are stocking up on food, medicine, and other essentials in preparation for a siege, says Parliament member Maryan Zablotskyy from President Volodymyr Zelensky’s party, and who remains in the city.
> 
> In addition to the army and police force, around 30,000 Kyiv residents volunteered to defend the city and have received guns, he says.
> “So basically, Kyiv is turning into a fortress, and everybody is expecting a major assault on Kyiv,” he tells Axios.
> 
> Data: Institute for the Study of War; Map: Jared Whalen/Axios
> 
> 12 days into the war, there has been fighting on the city's outskirts and bombing closer to the center, but a senior Pentagon official told reporters today that “the main advance is still stalled outside the city.”
> 
> Flashback: Michael Kofman, a leading expert on Russia’s military at the Center for Naval Analyses, says that watching an enormous Russian convoy move slowly toward Kyiv to help encircle the city is giving him “very bad Grozny 1999 vibes" — a reference to the notoriously brutal Russian bombardment and capture of the Chechen capital.
> 
> By the time Putin, newly installed as president, declared the city “liberated,” it was by the UN’s estimation “the most destroyed city on Earth.”
> Kofman says Putin's bombardments of Grozny and Aleppo in Syria suggest he would be willing to "level" Kyiv. "If you don’t think that’s true you haven’t been following Vladimir Putin’s track record.”
> Kofman is expecting a massive artillery and air assault on the city once the Russian forces are in position.
> 
> Yes, but: “Even if they try and reduce the city to rubble, you can still fight from rubble if you really want to,” says Rob Lee of the Foreign Policy Research Institute and who is another close observer of the Russian war effort.
> 
> He says encircling Kyiv will require a massive Russian force that could then be vulnerable to counterattacks. Troops that enter the city would be at a disadvantage in street-by-street fighting.
> "If you’re trying to occupy a country that doesn’t want to be occupied, your prospects are always going to be poor,” Lee says.
> He also thinks the Russians will be operating on a timeline, both because of the difficulties of sustaining and supplying their operation and because of domestic pressure over the war and its economic fallout.
> 
> The aftermath, in Grozny. Photo: Antoine Gyori/Sygma via Getty Images
> 
> What to watch: The Pentagon official said Russian forces are trying to “seal off the eastern part of the country” to prevent the large Ukrainian force there from joining the defense of Kyiv.
> 
> Some Russian forces fighting in the east could also join the effort to encircle Kyiv once they have taken Kharkiv, the official added.
> The U.S. and European countries are working to provide weapons and other supplies while it’s still possible to get them into the capital.
> Even killing or capturing Zelensky would be unlikely to end the battle. Secretary of State Tony Blinken said Sunday that Ukraine has a "continuity of government" plan.
> 
> Driving the news: At least four civilians attempting to evacuate the Kyiv suburb of Irpin were killed by Russian shelling on Sunday. On Monday, at least 13 civilians were reportedly killed when a bakery in another suburb was struck.
> 
> The Pentagon official said Russia has now deployed "nearly 100%" of its amassed forces into Ukraine and launched over 625 missiles.
> 
> The bottom line: Like Ukraine as a whole, Kyiv would be difficult to take and more difficult to hold. But if there is a prolonged battle for Kyiv, the Ukrainian people will bear the brunt of the suffering.


Russian tactics see this as the case, but that wouldn't happen until they encircle the city which they are doing now.


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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> @That Guy @jhungary just how much forces do Russians have in the South now?
> 
> There were around 14 BTGs stationed in Crimea before action started. Were they reinforced at the last moment?



Judging from the attack momentum, I would say it's anywhere between 6-10 Battalions, which is about 9000-12000 combat troop.

I believe Russian Battalion is reinforced, usually there are 950/battalion, but pre-war intel suggest each Battalion is between 1100-1200 troop. Which is not at all surprised as they are going to war.



dBSPL said:


> Ukraine should recognize Crimea as part of Russia, recognize the independence of Donetsk and Luhansk, amend the constitution and abandon claims to join "any bloc" - Kremlin spokesman Peskov
> 
> I think these are insufficient. Russia should have requested the abolition of the elections in Ukraine and the authority to appoint a governor also.
> 
> (Russia is looking for a honorable way out from full invasion attempt. But it still puts forward unacceptable conditions.)


That is why I think Putin know he is losing the long game..

Those condition is not at all align to the pre-war condition (Ie demilitarize and denazify Ukraine)...If they ask for peace now, one of the condition should be disbanding Zelenskyy government. Which Putin didn't ask.

Also, if things are going your way, you usually will not extend a peace deal...



Paul2 said:


> Tanks get blown up. APS, no APS makes no difference if you are being fired on by a squad of RPG men.
> 
> It will be a significant propaganda coup if Russians will let it get destroyed, and photographed.



Or Tank got towed, the Ukrainian fashion..

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## sur

Excerpts from horse's mouth

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## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> Judging from the attack momentum, I would say it's anywhere between 6-10 Battalions, which is about 9000-12000 combat troop.
> 
> I believe Russian Battalion is reinforced, usually there are 950/battalion, but pre-war intel suggest each Battalion is between 1100-1200 troop. Which is not at all surprised as they are going to war.
> 
> 
> That is why I think Putin know he is losing the long game..
> 
> Those condition is not at all align to the pre-war condition (Ie demilitarize and denazify Ukraine)...If they ask for peace now, one of the condition should be disbanding Zelenskyy government. Which Putin didn't ask.
> 
> Also, if things are going your way, you usually will not extend a peace deal...


It's not a peace deal in the traditional sense. It's a conditional surrender offer.

Bookmark it. See if the terms get better or worse for Ukraine as time goes on. You can gauge who is winning or losing by who is relaxing conditions and who is making more requests.

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## jhungary

Vapnope said:


> @jhungary hey man.
> 
> Would like to read your take on Russian war plan and where did it go wrong as per your opinion. Thanks in advance.



I did a Day 4 and Day 7 analysis and I went in detail on what Russia War Plan/Goal is and what did the Russia (and Ukrainian) had done wrong.

Day 4


jhungary said:


> *Foreword*
> 
> Okay, so, I’ve got an email from a PDF member ask me to comment on the Russian-Ukrainian war in 2022. I am not going to say who, but the same member asked me to comment on the US withdraw from Afghanistan last year, I wasn’t about to comment on that as I see no military value to talk about a military withdrawal. But I think this war has a lot of military value people can learn from and this is the first conventional war the Russia fought post Soviet Union, so I am going to give you a no-BS assessment on the situation
> 
> For those who know me, you know what I do for a living (Or what I used to do), and for those who don’t know, I was a former US Army Infantry Officer, served 2 tours in the middle east. And I like to comment all things military.
> 
> This post will look at Military situation in Ukraine, and I may also answer some of the most commonly asked question. But majority this will be like the Military Report I used to write.
> 
> 
> 
> *Russian invasion of Ukraine, 2022.
> 
> 
> 
> Introduction*
> 
> On 0500 Europe Eastern time, 24th February 2022, Russian start a special military operation. The Russian invaded Ukraine with 3 Arms, over the North via Belarus , Over the south from Crimea Occupied Territories, and Over the East via Donetsk and Luhansk. Russian force are said to be between 180,000 to 200,000 Ukrainian force are said to be between 210,000-240,000
> 
> *Tactical Consideration for Ukraine*
> 
> Ukraine has 3 Tactical Considerations
> 
> 
> Defend of Capital Kyiv
> Defend of the Western Corridor (From Brest to Odessa) to keep the logistic afloat
> Avoid being capitulation of government.
> 
> *Tactical Consideration for Russia*
> 
> There are also 3 tactical considerations for Russia
> 
> Occupied Kyiv
> Locate and Secure the current Ukrainian government
> Install a Pro-Russian Government
> 
> *Strategic Consideration for Ukraine*
> 
> There is only one, repel the Russian Invasion
> 
> *Strategic Consideration for Russia*
> 
> There are 2 strategic considerations for Russia.
> 
> 
> Occupy the country
> Overturn the Government of Ukraine
> 
> *Current Situation in Ukraine*
> 
> As of 27 February, 2022 5pm AEST, Russia have launched a 3 pronged attack, A north arm attack across the Belarusian Border. That force is currently surrounding Kyiv. Another prong is from the south, Now currently outside Kherson, and the Amphibous element are landed in both Odessa and Mariupol, and the third prong is attacking from the East, surrounding Kharkiv and Sumy, and also launching a double envelopment on Mariupol
> 
> 
> Refer to this map here
> 
> View attachment 819277
> 
> 
> *My Appraisement*
> 
> First of all, this is the fourth day of war; the first thing to notice is that none of the Ukraine City has fallen to Russia. That is surprising for me, because I am expecting some heavy fighting in the Eastern and Southern city, and with overwhelming infantry, air and artillery support, Russia should have been able to at least secure Kharkiv or Odessa which is closest to Russian starting point.
> 
> Another issue I have found is that the land Russia travel is quite short. Considering Soviet Armor assault usually travel 10 km per hour, which mean by now, they should have covered more than 450KM (15 hours a day, with 9 hours rest) Judging by the map, there are no where near that 450km limit.
> 
> Now going back to General Detail, Russia attack along the North/South and East axis, preceded by Missile Strike (approximately 200 cruise missile was launched) follow by CAS and Helicopter gunship strike. With Armor column closing the gap and Airborne unit secure important objective (such as Antonov Airport).
> 
> Now, this is different than conventional US attack where US would launch a single spear Armor attack supported by gunship and CAS, which tell me 3 things.
> 
> 
> Russia is in a hurry
> Russia is try to maximize territorial gain
> Russia is splitting their command and support structure.
> 
> So what does that mean? First attack with 3 prongs 100 of kilometre apart would mean they have separated their logistic zone and support zone, which mean each prong would have their own staging area, logistic and resupply element, air/ground support element. In other words, the invading force is diverse.
> 
> This could mean good thing and bad things for Ukrainian. Good thing is, Russia force is diluted, instead of facing a giant fist of 50,000-70,000 troops, Ukrainian is facing 3 front with 20,000 troop each, diluted troop concentration is susceptible to Ukrainian harassment, plus, these troop are supposed to secure key city and infrastructure. Which call into doubt whether it is doable for them to work, not to mention the risk of being defeated in detail, which if one arm failed, the whole operation gone kaput (unless there are reinforcement, which I would assume)
> 
> The Bad thing is, the general area Ukraine is focusing on is going to be huge. And as a general rules, if you defend every inch of your country, you defend nothing.
> 
> The second thing I noticed is that if the Russian sole goal is to relieve Ukrainian government, then they would have done what we had done during Iraq war, we concentrate our effort to go into Baghdad and secure the government and then fan out and secure the individual objective (like TV station, airport, port, village and so on) But Russian did not do that, suggesting their motive is territorial gain. Ie capture and occupied as many land as you can.
> 
> On the other hand, Ukraine seems to be playing a territorial defence role, where each element was assigned a sector to protect, I personally will not choose this except for Kyiv, if I am outgun and outnumber, I will choose a more dynamic defence rather than a static defence, organise your Brigade into mobile brigade, conduct hit and run on the Russian invading route. That way I can protect more with fewer troops. But then I will have to concede that in order to do that, Ukraine intelligence must be up to the task, maybe they think their intelligence is not up to the game? Or maybe they prefer to defend this way? I don’t know.
> 
> Another observation from me is that Ukraine process a strong will to fight, so it is highly unlikely that Ukraine will do an Afghanistan. People are staying there, most likely fight to their death.
> 
> *My Assessment*
> 
> My first assessment is Russia highly probable underestimate the Ukrainian defence. They either anticipate Ukrainian defence will crumble once they encounter Russian troop, or they have expected a lower capability to hold back Russian Troop. Form the fact that Russia willing to split their operation into 3, it said they expected light resistance
> 
> Also I would say Russia failed to capture many first day objective, Kyiv, Odessa, Kharkiv should be the first day objective on the first phase line, all three cities still in Ukrainian hand as of 27 Feb. 22, and I would say Russian schedule is between 48-72 hours late. By now the 3 prongs should have converge over Kyiv by now. The key for Russian operation is speed, as Putin put it, Russia are there to liberate Ukrainian brother and “Demilitarize and Denazify the Neo Nazi regime in Ukraine” and emphasis on the objective being military, not civilian, which mean what Putin is selling is a Crimea style take over. And it won’t work if this operation is taking a long time, because if it take any longer than 2 or even 3 weeks, people will start asking question why the people in Ukraine has not risen up yet
> 
> Also, key infrastructure in Ukraine is still on, things like electricity, telephone, internet, TV station and Radio station, which mean Russia have not either destroy/taken over them yet, which also tell you that Russia is behind their schedule, those things should have been targeted within the first 48 hours. Controlling information should be Russian first day objective too.
> 
> Another assessment from me is the Russian pre-invasion bombardment is not effective. You can see Ukraine still able to sorties after day 4. As I said many time here before, missile cannot be used to disable enemy infrastructure. By this point, Russia should have obtain complete air superiority because their battle plan depends on Air Mobile Troop, and helicopter is prone to Anti-Air attacks.
> 
> *My Prediction*
> 
> First thing first, I don’t believe Ukraine can survive this war, the number from Russia is just too many, too close, there will be heroic defences, but if we took the entire Russia might and compare to Ukrainian might, there are absolutely no contest. Russia currently are using approximately 1/8 to 1/10 of the national force, which mean even if Ukraine be able to fend off the first wave, this 200,000 Russian soldier currently surrounding Ukraine. There are no way they will survive the next, and the next and the next.
> 
> On the other hand, how much Russia are willing to give is another issue, because this is not a popular war in Russia, and all the factor give me the impression that Russia has seriously underestimating Ukraine warfighting capability. As this drag on, this is going to be bad for Russia. Yes, theoretically, Russia can send enough soldier to flood Ukraine, but can they do it without public support is another matter, because anything after this 200,000 soldier will require another mobilisation, by then the public would ask why, if this is just a Crimea style take over. It will create problem for Russian draft, and it may also have wide range of protest and push back from Public.
> 
> Another issue is we called “War Chest” ie, how much money you can use to wage war. Keep in mind, Russia economy performed quite badly these last 2 years due to COVID, which mean the economy is not going to be good, now with Western sanction, it will further hamper Russia ability to raise money for war, and without money, you get no replacement part, you can’t pay your soldier etc and that will create a whole other morale problem. Current estimation on Russian war chest is 60 billions. Which will probably last them 2 months. After that, money have to some how be raised to continue the war. But that is before Western Sanction kicks in. So the current war chest for Russia is unknown, as Western countries had frozen Russian Asset and cease their debt raising capability and had been kicked out SWIFT.
> 
> On the other hand, Ukraine is currently sitting on a better situation than what I expect, or what NATO expected. NATO just announced they will send in Missile, SAM and other supplies to Ukraine 3 days after the war, which suggested that the initial NATO estimation is that Ukraine should have folded within the first 3 days. So no doubt 4 days passed and Russia still has not gain any meaningful ground.
> 
> The tradition Russia tactics would suggest a massive bombardment and carpet bombing to city center and military staging point to accelerate their time table, but I seriously doubt they are going to do that, after all these “Brother” speech, because once you send in Tu-95 or Tu-160, then Russian would have no doubt that this is going to target their “brother” This will alter the public narrative.
> 
> All in all, as with any invasion, the 7th day is the major point, that’s when your initial LogPak (Logistic Package) runs out, by then they should have been able to set up Forward Arming and Refuelling Point (FARP). Now this is important, because by day 7, they should have set it up beyond the first phase line (after Kyiv) if they still have not taken Kyiv and other objective, then the Russian have to set up their FARP behind their line, which mean they will need to retreat from their position back to FRAP to refuel and rearm, which mean it will further hamper with the time table.
> 
> Another issue I can foresee is that looking at the last 4 days, we probably anticipating a insurgency campaign even after Russian conquered entire Ukraine, which in itself is a long time away, I don’t see Ukrainian force drop their weapon and flee across the country, and that is very important, it show us that Ukrainian have the will to fight back. Now, what happened after Kyiv felt or Zelenskyy is captured is unknown, that may hamper the Ukrainian will but that remained to be seen
> 
> *Common Question
> 
> Why NATO is not sending boots on the ground?*
> 
> NATO direct involvement is a non-starter, because it will play into Putin’s narrative, which would mean the public will support Putin perspective more than they have now. And as I said, Public support is a key to Putin’s operation. Especially if Putin needed a next round of mobilisation.
> 
> So, any NATO boots on the ground will expand the war, which make it complicated, and if war expanded, Ukraine will be lost anyway (as said before I don’t think Ukraine can withstand a total invasion from Russia) and the battle will spill over to other NATO member, namely Latvia, Estonia, Poland and Romania.
> 
> And Russia will most likely resort to Nuclear Weapon if this happen because there are no way Russia can in turn survive an NATO onslaught
> 
> *What can Ukraine do to win the war?*
> 
> Well, the chance of Ukrainians winning this conventional fight is slim, very slim, it’s about 10% chances, it is that slim. But it’s not undoable.
> 
> The first thing Ukraine need to do is to keep dragging this on, the longer this war drag on, the longer Russia support aboard, most importantly China, will wean, the Chinese are not that keen on a war between Russia and Ukraine to begin with, as Ukraine is a important strategic partner with China, Chinese first and second carrier are serious Ukraine input and Chinese aviation was helped by Antonov a lot to develop their home grown fighter jet, which mean the longer the war drag on, the bigger of the mess it create, and this won’t go well to China.
> 
> Another thing is that as the war drag on, more and more Russia will suffer from the sanction the west have just dished out. Which mean it hamper Russia material and warfighting capability, that inturn interrupt equipment replacement and resupply, to issue such as food, water, fuel and transport?
> 
> And finally, Ukraine can make this war as unpleasant to Russian as possible. It wont affect the soldier side because Russian Army is a professional force, but home support largely depends on this is a clean, quick operation, and if Ukrainian can make this war unclean and slow, this will help alter Public Opinion.
> 
> *Would this war achieve what Russian or Putin want?*
> 
> No. It will not achieve what Putin want In term of Political and Strategic objective. In fact, it will do the opposite.
> 
> First of all, the Casus Belli for Putin is in two. 1.) Ukraine permanently bar form NATO. 2.) NATO stops their eastern expansion.
> 
> While Ukraine can be sway into not joining NATO, but NATO will not stop expanding just because Russia said so. In fact, this war will give the country on the fence more stacks to join NATO after seeing the naked aggression of what Russia will do to its perceived enemy. Country like Moldova, Sweden and Finland will probably look at NATO membership to ensure their own survival, BECAUSE of this Russian invasion.
> 
> Second of all, this is a no gain operation, because the best outcome for Russia to hope for is a pre-2014 Ukraine, that is pro-Russia, since NATO never had Ukraine (or even intent to have them) which mean this is going to be a status quo, which mean the best Russia can hope for is a draw, and that is if Ukraine did not raise an insurgency and Russia survive this round of Sanction. So literally any other option for Russia is a lost.
> 
> *Will China invade Taiwan now that they see NATO Inactiveness on Ukraine issue?*
> 
> Highly unlikely. First of all, China and Taiwan did not share a land border. Which mean whatever timetable China on invading and regain Taiwan is based on their Naval And Air capability, and at this point, China is yet to achieve neither capability to launch an invasion to do so.
> 
> Second, China is not Russia, Russia economy is almost bottomed out, sanction on Russia does not really work that good because Russia economy has been stagnate since 2013. Chinese Economy on the other hand, depend largely on European and American market. Sanction on the scale of the one that Russia having is going to reek devastation to Chinese economy. Think about it, if China cannot trade with US, EU and country like Australia, Japan and South Korea, who can they trade with? Africa is not a nice or even tempting market and Middle East are traditional US allies.
> 
> Which mean Sanction would be more than enough to deter China from invading Taiwan, at least for now.



Day 7

*



Russia – Ukrainian War 2022

Day 7 Update

Introduction

Click to expand...

*


> as stated before, I will write another write up on the 7th day of the war, because today will be a major milestone of an initial war, and the 7th day mark is always a good indicator as how both side fare and what would happen latter on.
> 
> This article will deal with matter that’s purely military, not the BS take from either side political. I tried to be as neutral as possible in this write up and just look at the military decision made up to this point as a former Military Officer myself.
> 
> *CURRENT SITUATION*
> View attachment 820443
> 
> 
> This is the current tactical map as of 1700 03/03/2022 AEST
> 
> As the map suggested, Russian gain are largely unchanged since day 4. With the exception of some small city (Berdiansk, Melitopo) Kherson is in doubt as of the time of writing. While Mariupol and Kharkiv is still under siege, and Kyiv is about to.
> 
> That suggested a 96-120 hours delay of the objective on the Russian side, and that is a serious delay on the time table and this is, in my opinion, is going to affect the long term strategic goal for Russia negatively.
> 
> Also worth notice that the Russian vector of invasion does not cover all the rural area, so that may have a detrimental effect on Russia’s war goal, that mean the spearhead can be attacked and flanked and the route of advance is not completely secure
> 
> What is cleared to see also is the method of operation has changed from the original multi-pronged surgical fast strike into more of a siege warfare. With Russia laying siege on several Ukrainian cities (At this point, Kharkiv and Mairupol)
> 
> *TACTICAL ANALYSIS*
> 
> Tactically the Russian have the upper hand, with their invasion vector largely be able to carry out what they were planned to carry out without much resistance, resistance, however, is expected in heavily populated city center.
> 
> On Russian part, the pressure is building around major city such as Kharkiv and Kyiv, and hopefully delivers a decisive blow to the Ukrainian government. The center of gravity is still Kyiv, which would have been the first or second day objective, now 7 days in, the city still stand
> 
> On Ukrainian part, the tactical situation is that they do not have enough people (trained people, not Territorial Defence Force) to defend every inch of the country, and the Ukrainian are poised to defend every major city, and probably using smaller city and vita infrastructure as point of delay attack.
> 
> Russia route of advance also speak volume, the multi-axis attack aimed at destablising the Ukrainian government has stymied, with advance now slow in the north and east, while the southern advance is the only advance that see some territorial gain. Which suggesting the Russian is focusing on cutting the coastline from Ukraine. And to do that, two major cities have to be taken. Odessa and Mauripol, as of now, both remain in Ukrainian hand.
> 
> On the other hand, the Russia tactics seems to be trying to divided the country by pinning the majority of Ukrainian regular troop in the East (with the greatest concentration, 6 Brigade and the West and isolate the North to South Axis, which is where most of the fight as of now, took place.
> 
> *STRATEGIC ANALYSIS*
> 
> First of all, several strategic mistake were committed on both side
> 
> *Ukrainian Mistake*
> 
> The prime mistake the Ukrainian made is the ignoring of US/UK intelligence that Russia is going to invade as early as November 2021. Had Ukrainian act on the US/UK intelligence and mobilise in November 2021, they could have doubled the effective Military size, given the training and equipment to arm them would have provided within that 3 months. (Bear in mind US Army basic infantry course is just 13 weeks) This will make the Russian advance a lot harder.
> 
> Another issue I have found with how Ukrainian conduct its warfare is that I don’t think the Ukrainian have effectively used the rural area at all, If you look at the vector of advance, those area are unguarded, which mean a single mobile Brigade utilising the rural area would have detrimental effect on the Russian advance. Take the 40 mile convoy for example, a mobile brigade moving between area would have caused havoc in these slow moving convoy in a series of hit and run. However, Ukrainian, also using former Soviet Union tactics, (basically what we see here is Russia fighting Russia) dictate static defence, the “never give an inch” style last stand defence.
> 
> Inability to defend or denied Russia use of key infrastructure. The first stage of battle see Russia try to invade south thru the forest area and got beaten down by Ukrainian defence, and only finding undefended roadway to travel, numerous time we can see the local, not military ( from the video of the man offer to tow the Russian BMP to numerous civilian crowded the advancing Russian on the street) Sure, As I said there are not enough troop to lay ambush but that does not mean they cannot deploy delay action or rear guard action on those Russian, or at the very lease “Mined” the area, which I know for sure the road is not mined because civilian still use it for travel (either that or Ukrainian really have some balls)
> 
> *Russian Mistake*
> 
> Logistics – A great USMC general once said “Amateur talks Tactics, Professional study Logistic” (Which would make me an Amateur)…. Anyway, logistic is probably *THE* problem the Russian military is facing at this point. A I mentioned day 7 is crucial because that would be the time when your original LOGPAK runs out and you are going to look for FARP or Forward Fuel Depot for gas. This is exactly what the 40 mile convoy supposed to do, only that they are stuck on the way to Kyiv, they were supposed to be in Kyiv, ALREADY by now. I don’t know what you see in that 40 mile convoy, for me it spell under prepare. First, you don’t run anything that long, that slow inside the enemy territories and front line. That is a prime target. Second, a 40 mile convoy means they are depending on trucks to resupply, this would be okay for what we called “general store” item such as toilet paper, replacing clothing or furniture, but not Priority item such as food, ammunition and gas. Those are brought in by air. Which bring me to mistake number 2
> 
> Russia has NOT achieved total superiority. 7 days in, we can still see aerial engagement between the two country, Drone are continue to fly as usual, not too many airfield is captured by the VDV (In fact, they had only capture one, Antonov Airfield but we still getting unconfirmed report stating they are still fighting in there. Compare to OIF, 173 ABN Brigade took Bashur on day 5, and turn it to logistic hub for the eventual Battle for Baghdad, British Captured Basra International Airport on day 4. It is one thing not to be able to neutralise enemy air power, but another thing not to Capture and turn the airfield into use on future engagement. Judging from the dependence of ground convoy, Russia are either unable or unwilling to use airport as a supply route. Which mean long traffic jam and people don’t know where they are going. And I don’t see a red ball system here.
> 
> Initial Miscalculation, what almost everyone expected when Russian started this war is that they are going to break Ukraine as a matter of days, not weeks. NATO did not supply Ukraine weapon and other supply until day 4 suggesting NATO planner think they are going to fold in the first 3 days, and do so only realise they are still within their reasonable parameter of resistance. So why this is like this? For starter, I think Russia seriously underestimated Ukrainian Warfighting capability, this is what I will think because I myself don’t think Ukrainian would put up such as fight. On another ends, we see Russian using inadequate and sometime unmotivated troop to fight the war. War is a nasty business, who you choose for your campaign matter as much as the campaign itself. During D-Day, Omar Bradley specifically requested 1st Infantry division and the Ranger to start the initial phase and a fresh division to support the first wave, that being the first (division) and the Ranger is battle harden and they know what to do, and they need people who are motivated s a fresh division is needed. War does not just fight with random troop you pick up from a random corner of your battlefield; you choose your troop especially for the task. This is NOT done on the Russian part. Which lead to the initial miscalculation.
> 
> Multi-Axis Advance, I get it, the initial goal is Kyiv, and the Port city is important too. But the use of multi-axis advance, something very apparent that Russia have no idea how to operate and how to support is an issue, and if you try to attack everywhere at once, and you ended up failing to reach anywhere. If you want Kyiv, concentration your firepower on Kyiv, and then move toward other city along your axis of advance, sure, you can station your force somewhere and pin down enemy concentration, but do so with a more decisive manner. And not committed half the troop here and half the troop there and hoping you can get there on time.
> 
> *Strategic Limitation*
> 
> For Ukraine, that’s manpower. Sure, Ukraine has a 45 million population but their available force is just north of 200,000, which mean anyone who are conscript into TDF, they are expected to fight with local garrison and defend their city as a sort of general mobilisation. The tradition Western response to Soviet Tactics is to use a mobile force that can manoeuvre in an around the giant Russia spearhead, once the giant Russian force pin you down, then you are fighting the Russian fight, and mostly game over. And you can’t do that if you only have 200,000 troop know what to do for the entire country
> 
> TDF is to bolster the city defence, they are useless as an offensive force, and they also cannot function alone as a defensive force. They are only a supplement.
> 
> For Russia, that’s time. The longer it drag on, the more money, manpower and resource intensive the war get, and Russia is running out on all 3. With Russian sanction, and domestic pressure on the war, any sort of “mobilisation” are going to meet resistance, you cannot mobilise unless the public is willing to be mobilised. And with sanction, that is going to hurt Russian capability to pay for material and import material to replace lost, which mean the further it got drag on, the harder for Russia to replace their lost. In effect, you are losing Warfighting Power as time goes by.
> 
> *RUSSIAN ENDGAME
> 
> View attachment 820442
> *
> 
> While it’s too early to tell, but by looking at the axis of advance and the preparation and strategic opearation, the end game for Russia is cut the country in half thru a line between Mairupol to Dnipro then to Kyiv (as picture) along with the south end to the west to cover the entire coast, Russia will administer the area left of demarcation line (effectively become Russia territories) and the rest will be administrated by a Russian installed Ukrainian government.
> 
> End game is a regime change, with Russian install a government to control Ukraine. With the possible southern end (thru Kherson and Odessa) to be used as a springboard for future territorial gain in Moldova.
> 
> *PREDICTION*
> 
> This is still too early to call, before this start I can tell you with 100% certainty that Russia will achieve what they set to achieve, however, now? I am not too sure, I gave the chance of Ukrainian survival 10% on day 4, on day 7, I think the chances improved a bit, I will say Ukrainian have 15-20% chance to defeat the Russian. Because from what I see on the map, the result is far from certain.
> 
> If we look at the map, the battle plan and end games depends on several factors, which Russia still has not show they have achieve that even after day 7. The country side is still largely untouched, which means Ukrainian only need to have 1 hand defeated or rendered ineffective, the entire situation would have been turn against Russia. And the black arrow on the maps suggest Russian force axis of advance is prone to getting flank, and if Ukraine can somehow disengage some troop (Maybe a Brigade) to conduct mobile warfare, that would hamper those advance shown in black arrow. On the other hand, US Intelligence suggested that Russia have used 75% of the invasion force, which mean they are running out of tactics reserve, which mean they cannot afford any error, both strategic or tactical. Otherwise, it would have to dip into their strategic reserve, which I don’t know if they have any
> 
> On the other hand, if the end game is what I predicted, then Russia would need to take 5 key cities (Mariupol, Odessa, Dnipro, Kyiv and Kharkiv.) None of the 5 were fallen. And Odessa and Dnipro is largely Untouched too. The only one close to falling is Mariupol and Kharkiv but we have been saying this for days. So all these are uncertainty. What’s more? Russia is running out of time. Tradition battle would require a Logistic Update every 7 days, and I don’t see any FARP set up for the first 7, which mean the troop in the frontline is running on empty, and the frontline troop itself needs to be replace every 28 days, you can extend it if you have momentum but Russia lost that in the first 7 days, which mean again, as I said, if by day 21, if all of the key objective is not taken, then there will be a problem, and day 21 is only 13 days away. Can they really do that seeing the first 7 days progress?
> 
> Another issue I foresee is that now Russia revert to plan B (or Plan A if you think they should have done it initially), siege warfare and massive artillery bombardment would antagonise Civil Population, you don’t make friend by bombing their home. Which make the future plan for Moscow to install a puppet government in doubt, unless there are continue Russian occupation outside their annexation zone. Which mean insurgent warfare, which will turn Moscow position even more untenable
> 
> Future insurgency is also a problem, I am very sure (90%) that Russia will not or cannot occupied the entire country, which mean some part of Ukraine have to be delegated by a unpopular puppet regime (I don’t think there are any doubt no one in Ukraine will support that regime, seeing how far they go to defend Ukraine from Russia) which mean Russia theoretically need to conquer or occupy some part in the West to counter the future insurgency, and given they did not achieve any of their key objective on the first 7, unlikely they are going to get all of them by day 14 and slightly possible for the Russian to go beyond 21 days, it’s virtually impossible at this point the Russian have any ability to wage war simultaneously in the western part of the country, which will make it rebellion central.
> 
> And finally, can Russia even lasted that long? Russian economy is, in no other word, crumbing, Russia Rouble lost 30% of value toward USD and other currency due to sanction and despite Russian central bank emergency measure to propped up the currency, which mean they have s far failed to do that, and I can’t see they can ever do that unless China help them, which I don’t currently see this is what Chinese is doing (Hence the freefall) and wonder if China will ever do it in the first place. You need money to keep the war going, and money run dry by day unless you can somehow replenish it, and I failed to see how Russia is going to get the economy back up.
> 
> *FAQ
> 
> Why Russia invasion did not make any head way?*
> 
> Numerous factor, the most clear is they either miscalculated Ukrainian response, or underestimated Ukrainian ability to defend their country. Either way, this is a strategic error by Russia. Another factor is that they somehow failed to gain Air Superiority over Ukraine, and most likely Russia underestimate EU response to the conflict I Ukraine. EU literally goes all out to help the Ukrainian.
> 
> *Why Russia did not attack Ukrainian Infrastructure.*
> 
> This is a good question, many people think that is because Putin have softside with Ukraine, want to leave it untouched as much as possible and easier for them to take over. But if this is the end goal, then a political invasion would be used, and no an actual invasion, you don’t invade people to see if they want to surrender. You invade someone to fight someone, it’s no point BSing yourself or anyone else.
> 
> The reason why those item (TV, Radio Station and Power Station) is simple, it no longer a factor. I mean since when is the last time you watch TV? Or Listening to Radio. Today information is all about internet and social media, and while Russia did try to shut down Ukrainian Internet and then Ukrainian switch to Satellite Internet thanks to Elon Musk. Unless Russia send some missile and bring down some Space X satellite, they are not going to take out Ukrainian Internet. Notice that most of Zelenskyy present is social media, since the war start, he is frequently seen on Twitter and Telegram or other social media network. Which mean the value of striking the TV stationor Radio Station have decreased multiple fold since the advance of social media technology and as I said, you cannot shut down Ukrainian internet.
> 
> Power on the other had is tricky, bear in mind Ukraine is mostly powered by 5 Nuclear Power Station that was already fuctioning, which mean you cannot bomb them or you are risking a nuclear incident, so the only viable option is to take them by force, which they took 1, Chernobyl, which is off line anyway. Nuclear Power Plant in Khmelnytskyi, Rivne, Yuzhnoukrainsk and Enerhodar thus continue to provide Ukrainian with power. That probably is the true reason why those are untouched.
> 
> *Are there any chance Ukrainian could win? *
> 
> Theoretically, no In Reality? Not sure, first of all, we know two things for sure, the only way for this war to stop is for Russian to stop, Second thing we know is there are not enough Russian troop to occupy the entire country.
> 
> So what does that translate to? Even if Ukrainian lost all their major city, that does not mean it’s game over for them, unlike Russian Operation in Syria, this is not done with majority support of the country (Assad held at least 60% of Syria when Russia intervene, the 2 rebel region hold less than 7%) Which mean you are looking at insurgency and continual resistance. Plus EU already announced that they will finance Ukrainian expense, which will make Ukraine look like Soviet Adventure in Afghanistan.
> 
> This is going to be hard for Russia, especially with sanction applies.
> 
> *What is Russia Political or Strategic Gain? *
> 
> You have to get something in a war, be it money, oil, gold or salt (If you are talking about Roman time) This have no strategic gain other than try to control Ukraine. I am not sure Russia can holdout even if Russia annexed Eastern Ukraine, again, it’s about personal gain more than National Gain. Putin in his mind think Ukraine belong to him with all the Russian rhetoric, but that does not mean so, and there are no Political gain for him either, because the “Political” goal is to push NATO border away from Russia, but what Putin is doing by invading and at least annexing Southern Half of Ukraine is Push the border into NATO, which relatively is the same thing but instead of the 2 NATO member country that border him before (Latvia and Estonia), now is 4 (Latvia, Estonia, Romania and Poland) and may even be 5 if Finland join NATO.
> 
> In effect, what Putin is doing is “extending” the border he is facing with NATO. On the other hand, even if he wins, he is looking at the situation of a status quo, only to wind back to 2014. So I don’t actually see any Strategic or Political gain Russia have come out of this.

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## reflecthofgeismar

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Do you know what the term "forced conscription" means?



Yes, the Germans did that. Imagine if by December 31, 1944, the entire Wehrmacht would have - rounded up - drafted about 7 million soldiers. It didn't take long for the war to end. From January 1, 1945 to May 8, 1945, more Germans died than before! In the end, the entire Wehrmacht (Heer, Luftwaffe, Kriegsmarine) had called up 16-18 million, you can imagine the qualitative differences. And about 20-25,000 were hanged/shot for "cowardice before the enemy"/desertion.
These are the rules, especially when you have "leaders" who have gone insane and the system is failing.
From 1943 onwards it was dangerous to make jokes about the German "leadership".


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## thetutle

Tamerlane said:


> Again, we see the same thing happening. Russia could have been an ally but their greatest sin was supporting Syria and Iran



So you think it would have been better if Russia was allied with the west in fighting the Islamic world?


----------



## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> It's not a peace deal in the traditional sense. It's a conditional surrender offer.
> 
> Bookmark it. See if the terms get better or worse for Ukraine as time goes on. You can gauge who is winning or losing by who is relaxing conditions and who is making more requests.



lol, you do know there are no territorial change except Crimea and Donetsk and Luhansk are changed, any they were already occupied by Russian and separatist since 2014

So, do tell me what kind of surrender offer is "You get the keep the government, and military, and the country and we get to have what we already had before"?? None of the "Surrender Offer" have anything that Putin said at the beginning of the war. Which is "Demilitarize and Denazify" Ukraine. 

LOL, and in case you don't know, Russia already LOST the strategic outcome, now NATO are going to have more border (Finland is fast tracking NATO application), more NATO member equipment and more defence budget than Russia, and Russia on the other hand, is going to eat the sanction for which China seems reluctant to bail out. For what? Eastern Ukraine?


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## RescueRanger

8888888888888 said:


> Someone is not happy
> 
> 
> Russian tactics see this as the case, but that wouldn't happen until they encircle the city which they are doing now.


Oh no - you misunderstand me. I’ve been openly critical about the one sided reporting in some instances at the start of the conflict - I do believe that whilst we have seen the sheer incompetence exhibited by the Russian military we’ve not seen losses from the Ukrainian military side (I’m not referring to the volunteers) and each Ukrainian loss matters.


I’m just perplexed that somehow everyone and their cat is now an expert on Ukraine.

You know Ive seen this during conflicts in Pakistan and Afghanistan , complete random people who’ve never been there, never taken an interest in the situation and now because it’s big news they suddenly start chiming in.

I’ve been to Russia twice, Poland once and Bulgaria three times - once with the United Nations on a CM-COORD course - does that make me an expert (hell no, and I never profess to be).

I’m just observing and chiming in every now and then when I think I have something to contribute.

But these people who give their so called “expert analysis” and then decided to make YouTube videos on which they place monetized adverts are the worst- worst kinds of people.

And whilst people sit in their comfy houses with nice amenities and chew the fat about 20 deaths here and 10 deaths there like these are okay? The scale of the human tragedy unfolding and the long term physiological, psychological and social impact of this bastard affair will reverberate and be carried by the victims of this sordid business for years to come.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500913960274612228

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## reflecthofgeismar

Foinikas said:


> Question is why aren't the Russians sending their "good" vehicles to Ukraine? Where are the T-90SMs and the BTRTs and all those dozens of MRAPs they developed and showed in exhibitions? Where is the Armata? The tank modifications with APS and all the "smart weapons"?
> 
> Is this how they will fight the West? By sending thousands of BMP-2s,MT-LBs and T-72s while staying out of gas?


T-90MS = export variant.
T-90M.
The Russians just don't have many T-90M...
Most T-90 obrig 1992 are in Syria, some T-90A are there too.

I personally think 2 things about the most modern equipment.
They just don't have much of the stuff (no money for them)
Use them as reserve, Soviets/Russians NEVER cared about the ordinary men.
The whole operation reminds me of Soviet Afghan war, where 100.000-110.000 were first a "C-class army".
Many ad hoc formations, only quality troops in Soviet-Afghan-War were 20k troops, rest were stationary-city-holding conscripts.

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## 8888888888888

RescueRanger said:


> Oh no - you misunderstand me. I’ve been openly critical about the one sided reporting in some instances at the start of the conflict - I do believe that whilst we have seen the sheer incompetence exhibited by the Russian military we’ve not seen losses from the Ukrainian military side (I’m not referring to the volunteers) and each Ukrainian loss matters.
> 
> 
> I’m just perplexed that somehow everyone and their cat is now an expert on Ukraine.
> 
> You know Ive seen this during conflicts in Pakistan and Afghanistan , complete random people who’ve never been there, never taken an interest in the situation and now because it’s big news they suddenly start chiming in.
> 
> I’ve been to Russia twice, Poland once and Bulgaria three times - once with the United Nations on a CM-COORD course - does that make me an expert (hell no, and I never profess to be).
> 
> I’m just observing and chiming in every now and then when I think I have something to contribute.
> 
> But these people who give their so. Allied “expert analysis” and then decided to make YouTube videos on which they place monetized adverts are the worst- worst kinds of people.
> 
> And whilst people sit in their comfy houses with nice amenities and chew the fat about 20 deaths here and 10 deaths there like these are okay? The scale of the human tragedy unfolding and the long term physiological, psychological and social impact of this bastard affair will reverberate and be carried by the victims of this sordid business for years to come.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500913960274612228


Majority of those experts are using Western Tactics so they have no clue how the Russian military tactics work. US was right to bring out all theirs civilians out before the Russian Invasion and Biden kept on saying that Russia will win so they do have someone in the Pentagon that knows Russian Tactics.

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## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> lol, you do know there are no territorial change except Crimea and Donetsk and Luhansk are changed, any they were already occupied by Russian and separatist since 2014
> 
> So, do tell me what kind of surrender offer is "You get the keep the government, and military, and the country and we get to have what we already had before"??
> 
> LOL, and in case you don't know, Russia already LOST the strategic outcome, now NATO are going to have more border (Finland is joining NATO), more equipment and more defence budget than Russia, and Russia on the other hand, is going to eat the sanction for which China seems reluctant to bail out. For what? Eastern Ukraine?


Donetsk and Luhansk was only half in Russian hands. The offer is for the entire Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts.

If it is truly so great for Ukraine then they should take the deal. But they're not taking it. OK then. That means they believe they can get more and in fact can take back Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk.

Do you want to make a mod witnessed bet on who controls Crimea, current Donetsk DPR and Luhansk LPR within 3 months or the end of the war, whichever comes earlier?

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## RescueRanger

The identity documents 5 Ukrainian soldiers including one Lieutenant of the 53 mechanised brigade have been posted on a Russian telegram. These five were reportedly killed in the city of Volnovakha-Donetsk.

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## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Donetsk and Luhansk was only half in Russian hands. The offer is for the entire Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
> 
> If it is truly so great for Ukraine then they should take the deal. But they're not taking it. OK then. That means they believe they can get more and in fact can take back Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk.
> 
> Do you want to make a mod witnessed bet on who controls Crimea, current Donetsk DPR and Luhansk LPR within 3 months or the end of the war, whichever comes earlier?



First of all, do you have idea any of the size of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts? They are smaller than what the Russia took now according to the current maps. Their advance is already cover half of Kharkiv Oblast, half of Sumy Oblast, All of Kherson Oblast, almost the entire Chernihiv Oblast and almost half of Kyiv. Not to mention the separatist already occupied more than half of Donbas before this started.

And if Zelenskyy agree on the condition, Russian troop will have to withdraw from all these Oblast, in exchange for the recognize the three region. And in case you are wondering Here are the land Russia occupied vs Donbas region.





And why Zelenskyy even want to Negotiate? He did not "Surrender" on day 1, he did not "Surrender" on day 2, he did not "Surrender" on day 3-11, what make you think he will agree to this?

And what bet? I have already said *MANY TIME* Russia *WILL WIN THIS CAMPAIGN*, I mean if anyone look at the conventional power between Russia and Ukraine and you pick Ukraine then you will have some sort of problem. I said Russia will lose the war because there are no way Putin can achieve his strategic goal, which is limit NATO, as I said times and time before, even if the Russia occupied the entire Ukraine (Which is not remotely possible in this schedule) They would still have lose the Strategic Objective. Because NATO would expand either way, and all he did is to roll back to pre-2014 level. Just with 2022 sanction and the lost of military power during the war, in effect, even if Russia occupied entire Ukraine, all he get is a giant Reset. NATO border is not going anywhere, NATO member is more united as before, and NATO are going to up the game with Russia, while Russia is eating sanction..

And that is before Russia is going to drag on for years of insurgency in Ukraine

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501074717201022976

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## PakAlp

D


Tamerlane said:


> Russian side of the story.
> 
> *Major military and political developments and major risks next (Excerpts)*
> 
> Conclusions:
> 
> From the point of view of Russian combat operations, today has been most successful and tomorrow promises an even quicker domino effect on the Ukrainian defenses pretty much everywhere except the far west (what I now call the mini-Banderastan).
> 
> Politically, the only important news is that Lavrov and Kuleba are supposed to meet soon.
> 
> And yet, I will end with an area of great concern to me.
> 
> Here is how I see it and PLEASE tell me I am wrong!
> 
> 
> The Ukraine has lost the war, she will be disarmed and denazified
> The West is waging total informational and economic war against Russia and believing much of its own propaganda (which is fantastically dangerous!)
> The western public has been sold nonsense about the Ukies being at the gates of Moscow and Russia being ready to surrender. Which means that when the reality will become undeniable there will be A LOT of VERY butthurt folks out there pointing fingers.
> Economically speaking, Zerohedge put it best: “Carnage everywhere“!
> Even much worse will be the folks who will try to still overturn this outcome. I am talking about the true nutcases in NATO (and in some sections of the USA ruling elites) which simply cannot even *imagine* that Russia holds all the cards, including the military one.
> I can easily imagine, say, a Polish column with weapons and mercenaries crossing into the Ukraine and being wiped out by Russian missiles. I ask you this: what will NATO do next?
> In fact, let me rephrase my question this way: *is it at all possible that this war can end without a direct military confrontation between NATO and Russia, keeping in mind that NATO cannot win and NATO cannot accept defeat?*
> 
> Sadly, I don’t think so anymore, that kind of folly is a direct consequence of the Western PSYOPs which have convinced the folks in the West of two crucial things: 1) Russia cannot win and 2) Putin is bluffing.
> 
> I think that the folks in the Pentagon are smart enough to know that this is all bull, but the Eurorodents inside NATO and the EU?
> 
> Wouldn’t a military/political defeat of NATO in Banderastan not risk bringing down NATO as an organization?
> 
> Again, please tell me that I am wrong, but I don’t see how this war can stop before Russia shows NATO that *nobody in Russia is bluffing and that any NATO country dumb enough to test that will be the target of missile strikes.*
> 
> So, militarily, this war is pretty much over.
> 
> The future of a min-Banderastan is impossible for me to guess.
> 
> But I am seriously concerned that this war might expand and directly involve NATO/EU countries.
> 
> And it might involve nuclear strikes by either/both sides.
> 
> So, please tell me I am wrong and that the West does still have enough brains to step back from this abyss?
> 
> Does it?
> 
> Andrei
> 
> UPDATE: for the first time Russian TV has shown the Donbass operational cauldron. I added the contours of this cauldron in the making with the think black line:
> 
> (That blue area is where the Nazi types are surrounded)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Major military and political developments and major risks next (UPDATED!) | The Vineyard of the Saker
> 
> 
> A bird's eye view of the vineyard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thesaker.is



If this is the ground reality in Ukraine then Russia has won the war. The western maps show Russians are only controlling the roads. A big contradiction. The Russian map makes Eastern Ukraine a reality, the allied rebels will form the government and have own army. It would be the buffer state between Russia and West Ukraine

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## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> First of all, do you have idea any of the size of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts? They are smaller than what the Russia took now according to the current maps. Their advance is already cover half of Kharkiv Oblast, half of Sumy Oblast, All of Kherson Oblast, almost the entire Chernihiv Oblast and almost half of Kyiv
> 
> And if Zelenskyy agree on the condition, Russian troop will have to withdraw from all these Oblast, in exchange for the recognize the three region. And in case you are wondering Here are the land Russia occupied vs Donbas region.
> 
> View attachment 821864
> 
> And why Zelenskyy even want to Negotiate? He did not "Surrender" on day 1, he did not "Surrender" on day 2, he did not "Surrender" on day 3-11, what make you think he will agree to this?
> 
> And what bet? I have already said *MANY TIME* Russia *WILL WIN THIS CAMPAIGN*, I mean if anyone look at the conventional power between Russia and Ukraine and you pick Ukraine then you will have some sort of problem. I said Russia will lose the war because there are no way Putin can achieve his strategic goal, which is limit NATO, as I said times and time before, even if the Russia occupied the entire Ukraine (Which is not remotely possible in this schedule) They would still have lose the Strategic Objective. Because NATO would expand either way, and all he did is to roll back to pre-2014 level. Just with 2022 sanction and the lost of military power during the war, in effect, even if Russia occupied entire Ukraine, all he get is a giant Reset. NATO border is not going anywhere, NATO member is more united as before, and NATO are going to up the game with Russia, while Russia is eating sanction..


The bet isn't on who wins. The bet is on who controls Crimea, Donetsk (current DPR territory) and Luhansk (current LPR territory) in 3 months or end of the war.

It's very simple. Do you think Ukraine can retake these territories? If so, then we can make a bet. If not, then you agree with me.

If you agree with me, that is to say, Ukraine cannot retake these territories militarily, the logical choice is that Zelensky agrees to this deal and Russia withdraws from the rest of the territories. 

Otherwise it means Zelensky believes that he can defeat Russia and get them to either surrender or extract a better deal.


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## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500965668589604872
> Oryx has now visually confirmed over 900 Russian losses


Russia has no T64BV

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## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> The bet isn't on who wins. The bet is on who controls Crimea, Donetsk (current DPR territory) and Luhansk (current LPR territory) in 3 months or end of the war.
> 
> It's very simple. Do you think Ukraine can retake these territories? If so, then we can make a bet. If not, then you agree with me.
> 
> If you agree with me, that is to say, Ukraine cannot retake these territories militarily, the logical choice is that Zelensky agrees to this deal and Russia withdraws from the rest of the territories.
> 
> Otherwise it means Zelensky believes that he can defeat Russia and get them to either surrender or extract a better deal.


Well, taking those city DOES NOT mean the end of this war. Especially if you are talking about an Active "Insurgency", which is undoubtedly going to start. Sure Russia can take Crimea, Donbas or even the Entire Ukraine by force in this campaign, I am not disagreeing with you. But can they hold them and can they last an insurgency war with Ukrainian is another matter.

*US took the entire Afghanistan from Taliban in 2001 in 4 months, tell me who is in control of Afghanistan now in 2022? *If you want to bet, then you will need to make this bet 10 or 20 years long, and I have no interest in this.

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## 8888888888888

Ukraine doesn't have mountains.


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## RescueRanger

8888888888888 said:


> Ukraine doesn't have mountains.


The Carpathian Mountains are within Ukrainian borders.

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## 8888888888888

A small part of Ukraine.


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## Primus

RescueRanger said:


> The Carpathian Mountains are within Ukrainian borders.


Wait, the ground RB map in war thunder, Carpathians, is in Ukraine? Oh damn this is gonna get based

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## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> Well, taking those city DOES NOT mean the end of this war. Especially if you are talking about an Active "Insurgency", which is undoubtedly going to start. Sure Russia can take Crimea, Donbas or even the Entire Ukraine by force in this campaign, I am not disagreeing with you. But can they hold them and can they last an insurgency war with Ukrainian is another matter.
> 
> *US took the entire Afghanistan from Taliban in 2001 in 4 months, tell me who is now in control of Afghanistan now in 2022? *If you want to bet, then you will need to make this bet 10 or 20 years long, and I have no interest in this.


Insurgencies work when they know that there's a chance of the occupiers leaving if enough casualties are inflicted.

But insurgencies can also be demoralized and crushed.especially if the occupiers simply refuse to lose and escalate the brutality.

Simple example: India vs. Kashmir. Kashmiris fought. They failed. They have resigned themselves to the Indian boot. India won. Kashmir got fully annexed. There was no further resistance.


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## bobo6661

Huffal said:


> Russia has no T64BV


But the separatists(or should i call them terrorists if trowing nazi all around is so normal or better nazi terrorist sounds perfect for them ) from lugansk and donetsk use them


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## RescueRanger

2 Million Ukrainians have been displaced from their country as a result of the war. Source: UNHCR


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501130493781286913


Huffal said:


> Wait, the ground RB map in war thunder, Carpathians, is in Ukraine? Oh damn this is gonna get based


Part of it yes, other half runs from Czech Republic, Moldova, Romania, Poland.

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## Ali_Baba

A SECOND Russian army general is killed in Ukraine​









A SECOND Russian army general is killed in Ukraine


Major General Vitaly Gerasimov, 45, was killed on Monday, the Chief Directorate of Intelligence of Ukraine's defence ministry said in a statement.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## thetutle

Madni Bappa said:


> Bro you're basically gonna have to sanction most of the non white world at this point lmao 😂


Anyone supplying Russia with the means to expand its territory will have to pay an economic price, or be regime changed. There is little chance any country reliant on America will be able to profit from this situation. They just wont allow it.

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501074722536185856


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## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Insurgencies work when they know that there's a chance of the occupiers leaving if enough casualties are inflicted.
> 
> But insurgencies can also be demoralized and crushed.especially if the occupiers simply refuse to lose and escalate the brutality.
> 
> Simple example: India vs. Kashmir. Kashmiris fought. They failed. They have resigned themselves to the Indian boot. India won. Kashmir got fully annexed. There was no further resistance.


Insurgency work as long as there are support, either local support or international support. Insurgency have nothing to do with Occupier because as long as they are designated as Occupied, that mean they are a "Foreign" force, which mean they would have to leave some time.

Russia in this case is NOT annexing the entire Ukraine, which mean whatever they are not annexing would be delegated to a puppet government, which depends on the support of the local population and whether or not any insurgency is supported by outside factor. And I can almost certainly guarantee you that Ukrainian will NOT support a Russian Puppet and NATO and EU is going to finance a Ukrainian Insurgency. These two factors dictate whether or not an insurgency is successful or not. Not whether or not the "Occupier" would vacate.

Kashmir is not a good example for you, because India only control half of Kashmir, Pakistan control 1/3 while the rest are still in an Active Insurgency









Insurgency in Jammu and Kashmir - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal



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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501082132034248704

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## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> Insurgency work as long as there are support, either local support or international support. Insurgency have nothing to do with Occupier because as long as they are designated as Occupied, that mean they are a "Foreign" force, which mean they would have to leave some time.
> 
> Russia in this case is NOT annexing the entire Ukraine, which mean whatever they are not annexing would be delegated to a puppet government, which depends on the support of the local population and whether or not any insurgency is supported by outside factor. These two factors dictate whether or not an insurgency is successful or not. Not whether or not the "Occupier" would vacate.
> 
> Kashmir is not a good example for you, because India only control half of Kashmir, Pakistan control 1/3 while the rest are still in an Insurgency
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insurgency in Jammu and Kashmir - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


back on topic of the deal offered:

So by your logic, because Russia would lose in an insurgency, Zelensky should refuse the deal. OK. Let's see what that means:

1. Zelensky refuses the deal.

If Ukraine loses Zelensky won't be a president of a whole Ukraine. He'll be president of a rump state at best. At worst he'll be an insurgent leader living horribly or living in exile with no power. Ukrainians will be at the mercy of the Russians. Their resources will get carted away to Russia. Their economy will be exploited by Russians. Then maybe in 50-60 years, Ukraine might gain independence again, after decades of exploitation and suffering. Or maybe not, maybe they'll remain under the Russian boot, that's always a possibility.

2. Zelensky takes the deal.

Zelensky gets to keep ruling Ukraine in Kiev. He is a recognized president living in luxury. Ukrainians stop dying. Russian soldiers return to Russia. Ukrainian resources remain Ukrainian. The war lasts less than a month. He signs away territories Ukraine mostly didn't control anyways, and only a bit more than the status quo. He's remembered as a peacemaker that made the best of a bad situation. He may or may not get voted out but even if he does, he's at least in no physical danger.

Hmmm. So are you saying option 1 is better? He should refuse the deal?

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## Vergennes




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## Primus

bobo6661 said:


> But the separatists(or should i call them terrorists if trowing nazi all around is so normal or better nazi terrorist sounds perfect for them ) from lugansk and donetsk use them


The whatever the hell you want to call them DPR and LPR use captured Ukrainian equipment. Russia retired them all in 1992 on wards


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## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> back on topic of the deal offered:
> 
> So by your logic, because Russia would lose in an insurgency, Zelensky should refuse the deal. OK. Let's see what that means:
> 
> 1. Zelensky refuses the deal.
> 
> If Ukraine loses Zelensky won't be a president of a whole Ukraine. He'll be president of a rump state at best. At worst he'll be an insurgent leader living horribly or living in exile with no power. Ukrainians will get killed in disproportionate numbers and their civilians will be at the mercy of the Russians. Their resources will get carted away to Russia. Their economy will be exploited by Russians. Then maybe in 50-60 years, Ukraine might gain independence again, after decades of exploitation and suffering.
> 
> 2. Zelensky takes the deal.
> 
> Zelensky gets to keep ruling Ukraine in Kiev. He is a recognized president living in luxury. Ukrainians stop dying. Russian soldiers return to Russia. Ukrainian resources remain Ukrainian. The war lasts less than a month. He signs away territories Ukraine mostly didn't control anyways, and only a bit more than the status quo. He's remembered as a peacemaker that made the worst of a bad situation. He may or may not get voted out but even if he does, he's at least in no physical danger.
> 
> Hmmm. So are you saying option 1 is better? He should refuse the deal?


I *DID NOT* say Zelenskyy refused this deal because he believe he will win an insurgency, I said he did not ask for "Surrendering" on day 1-11. why now?

This is not about Zelenskyy, this is about Ukraine, and what you failed to see is Ukraine is behind Zelenskyy, not the other way around. I don't think Zelenskyy even care about his Presidency at this point, If he did, he would had already done a Ghani and leave with the first plane available and start an "Exile" government. He is staying not because he has some sort of death wish, and that's because his people want him to, that's why I can say for certainty that there are going to be an active insurgency in Ukraine, and if you really believe Ukraine would just roll over as soon as Russian occupied Kyiv (Which is another certainty) then you fail to interpret the entire situation.

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## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501082132034248704


i wish he wouldn’t do that with the barrel of his FNC.





Off topic: those boots look like Altbergs, fantastic boots.

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## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> I *DID NOT* say Zelenskyy refused this deal because he believe he will win an insurgency, I said he did not ask for "Surrendering" on day 1-11. why now?
> 
> This is not about Zelenskyy, this is about Ukraine, and what you failed to see is Ukraine is behind Zelenskyy, not the other way around. I don't think Zelenskyy even care about his Presidency at this point, If he did, he would had already done a Ghani and leave with the first plane available and start an "Exile" government. He is staying not because he has some sort of death wish, and that's because his people want him to, that's why I can say for certainty that there are going to be an active insurgency in Ukraine, and if you really believe Ukraine would just roll over as soon as Russian occupied Kyiv (Which is another certainty) then you fail to interpret the entire situation.


it doesn't matter what the reasons for refusing the deal are. Those are the bottom line end results:

Deal refused: ok, war keeps going. Russia won't be militarily defeated as you admitted. They'll continue escalating if things don't go their way. Every second the war goes on, Ukraine's GDP and living standard drops.

Deal accepted: ok, war ends, Ukraine loses only a little bit and can rebuild.

If I were Zelensky I'd take the deal now. Even if it's unpopular, even if it's technically a surrender, I'd take it. Live to fight another day. He doesn't care about the presidency? Great. More reason to take the deal.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500858799497924612




That is an old image documented in this story in 2021. 









Russian pilots use US-made GPS receivers during combat missions in Syria


Russian military pilots use commercial GPS receivers during their combat operations in Syria, according to Viktor Alksnis. Nationalist politician and Soviet Air Force veteran Viktor Alksnis drew attention to recent images of Su-34 Fullback fighter-bomber aircraft in Syria, writing on Facebook...




defence-blog.com

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## JonAsad

Ali_Baba said:


> A SECOND Russian army general is killed in Ukraine​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A SECOND Russian army general is killed in Ukraine
> 
> 
> Major General Vitaly Gerasimov, 45, was killed on Monday, the Chief Directorate of Intelligence of Ukraine's defence ministry said in a statement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk


Putin is deliberately sending his generals to the front lines for execution for bad planning of invasion -


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## Iñigo

Kay-Achim Schönbach - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





(the last free German)

In this Ukrainian crisis the European puppets still do not explain the Big question: what is/was so terrible about conceding Ukraine's neutrality.

What the Russian government was asking for was fair, reasonable and beneficial for all (except for the fanatics in London and Washington).

Once again the Germans deceived by the Anglo-Empire as in 1914

If the Russian government had asked for 900 billion Euros and half of the Western females ... then I could understand that maybe the price was a bit high. But what was the cost of granting something as fair and reasonable as (1) no more killing Russian-Ukrainians and (2) a neutral Ukraine

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## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> it doesn't matter what the reasons for refusing the deal are. Those are the bottom line end results:
> 
> Deal refused: ok, war keeps going. Russia won't be militarily defeated as you admitted. They'll continue escalating if things don't go their way. Every second the war goes on, Ukraine's GDP and living standard drops.
> 
> Deal accepted: ok, war ends, Ukraine loses only a little bit and can rebuild.
> 
> If I were Zelensky I'd take the deal now. Even if it's unpopular, even if it's technically a surrender, I'd take it. Live to fight another day. He doesn't care about the presidency? Great. More reason to take the deal.



I can only say you are not Zelenskyy, and you probably should not ever be in any command position.

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## alimobin memon

Ashesh said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501115194826764288


This is actual status of war. All this babbling about Ukraine destroying so much of enemy might.


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## RescueRanger

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> That is an old image documented in this story in 2021.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian pilots use US-made GPS receivers during combat missions in Syria
> 
> 
> Russian military pilots use commercial GPS receivers during their combat operations in Syria, according to Viktor Alksnis. Nationalist politician and Soviet Air Force veteran Viktor Alksnis drew attention to recent images of Su-34 Fullback fighter-bomber aircraft in Syria, writing on Facebook...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> defence-blog.com








These are the gps terminals used by Russians in Ukraine.

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## Hassan Al-Somal



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## bobo6661

Huffal said:


> The whatever the hell you want to call them DPR and LPR use captured Ukrainian equipment. Russia retired them all in 1992 on wards


They are fighting there on russian side ... " In 2014, Russia had approximately 2,000 of t-64 which it had phased out of service and slated for destruction" so they send them guess where and guess where they are ussed now ...









T-64 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Insurgencies work when they know that there's a chance of the occupiers leaving if enough casualties are inflicted.
> 
> But insurgencies can also be demoralized and crushed.especially if the occupiers simply refuse to lose and escalate the brutality.
> 
> Simple example: India vs. Kashmir. Kashmiris fought. They failed. They have resigned themselves to the Indian boot. India won. Kashmir got fully annexed. There was no further resistance.



What do you mean Kashmir annexed? You mean JK? but it has always been with India (since 1947) It is a half province. Besides there is scale to this. The kashmiris number less then a million. Hence the insurgency is technically not even an insurgency but sporadic hit and run once in a month kind of thing more like BLA and India is large country with 1.5B hence they can just feed constripts to it for eternity if they want. Jammu and Kashmir is a province part of India for more then continued 75 years.

You can't compare that to a country of 44m vs invader 140m where the scale is very good for insurgency or continued conflicts conventional wars

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## Ashesh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501138433112256512

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## Trango Towers

RescueRanger said:


> i wish he wouldn’t do that with the barrel of his FNC.
> View attachment 821887
> 
> 
> Off topic: those boots look like Altbergs, fantastic boots.


Got a pair of Albergs. I use them for hiking in the mountains. Best boots ever. Better than the crappy hiking boots i had previously spent hundreds on

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## Vergennes

JonAsad said:


> Putin is deliberately sending his generals to the front lines for execution for bad planning of invasion -



Don't forget to add just like in Chechnya the russians don't even bother to recover their deads.

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## alimobin memon

bobo6661 said:


> They are fighting there on russian side ... " In 2014, Russia had approximately 2,000 of t-64 which it had phased out of service and slated for destruction" so they send them guess where and guess where they are ussed now ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T-64 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


Exactly most of the equipment is outdated about to retire or retired. Why would russians abandon so much equipment until or unless its doctrine or about to be retired vehicles.


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## Foinikas

reflecthofgeismar said:


> I personally think 2 things about the most modern equipment.
> They just don't have much of the stuff (no money for them)


Yeah. All these dozens of different IFV modifications,MRAPs and new weapons for years and just prototypes or in very small numbers. The only ones that I see in big numbers are the Tigr and the KAMAZ Typhoon. 

They haven't even found a solution for the Bayraktar and other drones.


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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Ashesh said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501138433112256512



He seems like he wants to surrender... 

Which I don't think he will do


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## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> I can only say you are not Zelenskyy, and you probably should not ever be in any command position.


that's your opinion. I know when to take a small hit so I can come back later. It's all about patience. Finland did it in 1944 and 1948. They agreed to those exact terms: they gave up territory lost in the Soviet counterattack against them in WW2 since they were allies with Nazi Germany, they agreed to neutrality. Now where is Finland? They've basically won in the end.

By your logic they shouldn't have surrendered in 1944. They should've fought to the death alongside Nazi Germany. No surrender. But what would that have gotten them?

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501139085657878529

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## Trango Towers

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> He seems like he wants to surrender...
> 
> Which I don't think he will do


Re writing the constitution will lead to a truly independent Ukraine and guarantee peace from the west and Russia. Ukraine got played by the west


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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

White House warns China over sanctions​Beijing called Russia its “most important” partner despite the West’s backlash to the military campaign in Ukraine

The US has hinted at retaliation against China should it avoid following sanctions imposed on Russia after its attack on Ukraine late last month. Beijing, meanwhile, consistently argued that economic restrictions only exacerbate conflicts.

During Monday’s press briefing, White House spokesperson Jen Psaki was asked if sanctions will push Moscow into deeper ties with Beijing.

_“They can’t backfill the impact of these sanctions from China. It’s just not possible,”_ Psaki argued. _“Now, we’ve also seen China abide by the sanctions that have been put in place.”_

At the same time, Psaki noted that Beijing abstained when the UN General Assembly voted to condemn Russia’s attack on Ukraine last week.

_“If they don’t abide by the sanctions, we always have – you know, we clearly have means to take steps, but that’s what we’ve seen to date,”_ the White House spokesperson said.




Read more
Australia demands China end ‘chilling silence’
China has backed a diplomatic solution to the conflict and has consistently spoken out against economic restrictions. _“We are deeply concerned with the ever-increasing unilateral sanctions, which are not a fundamental and effective way to solve the problem,”_ Zhang Jun, China’s envoy to the UN, said on Monday. _“They will have serious humanitarian consequences and spillover effects that will hurt other countries.”_

Speaking to reporters the same day, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi called Moscow his country’s _“most important strategic partner.”_ The friendship between the two is _“ironclad,”_ he said.

Many countries, including the US, UK, and EU member states, imposed sweeping sanctions on Russia in response to its military campaign launched against Ukraine on February 24. Russia insisted that it was defending the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics, which broke away from Ukraine shortly after the 2014 coup in Kiev. Russia also said it wants Ukraine to become a neutral country that will never join NATO.

Kiev said the attack was entirely unjustified and denied claims that it was planning to retake the breakaway republics by force.





__





Loading…






www.rt.com


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501137381394726915


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## bobo6661

alimobin memon said:


> Exactly most of the equipment is outdated about to retire or retired. Why would russians abandon so much equipment until or unless its doctrine or about to be retired vehicles.


they where sent to ukraine in 2014, 








Guide to Russian T-64 tanks in Donbas: Part 1 - InformNapalm.org (English)


The current information on the Russian T-64 tanks operating in Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts of Ukraine.




informnapalm.org


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## kahu




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## Trango Towers

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> White House warns China over sanctions​Beijing called Russia its “most important” partner despite the West’s backlash to the military campaign in Ukraine
> 
> The US has hinted at retaliation against China should it avoid following sanctions imposed on Russia after its attack on Ukraine late last month. Beijing, meanwhile, consistently argued that economic restrictions only exacerbate conflicts.
> 
> During Monday’s press briefing, White House spokesperson Jen Psaki was asked if sanctions will push Moscow into deeper ties with Beijing.
> 
> _“They can’t backfill the impact of these sanctions from China. It’s just not possible,”_ Psaki argued. _“Now, we’ve also seen China abide by the sanctions that have been put in place.”_
> 
> At the same time, Psaki noted that Beijing abstained when the UN General Assembly voted to condemn Russia’s attack on Ukraine last week.
> 
> _“If they don’t abide by the sanctions, we always have – you know, we clearly have means to take steps, but that’s what we’ve seen to date,”_ the White House spokesperson said.
> 
> 
> View attachment 821891
> 
> Read more
> Australia demands China end ‘chilling silence’
> China has backed a diplomatic solution to the conflict and has consistently spoken out against economic restrictions. _“We are deeply concerned with the ever-increasing unilateral sanctions, which are not a fundamental and effective way to solve the problem,”_ Zhang Jun, China’s envoy to the UN, said on Monday. _“They will have serious humanitarian consequences and spillover effects that will hurt other countries.”_
> 
> Speaking to reporters the same day, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi called Moscow his country’s _“most important strategic partner.”_ The friendship between the two is _“ironclad,”_ he said.
> 
> Many countries, including the US, UK, and EU member states, imposed sweeping sanctions on Russia in response to its military campaign launched against Ukraine on February 24. Russia insisted that it was defending the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics, which broke away from Ukraine shortly after the 2014 coup in Kiev. Russia also said it wants Ukraine to become a neutral country that will never join NATO.
> 
> Kiev said the attack was entirely unjustified and denied claims that it was planning to retake the breakaway republics by force.
> 
> [U unfurl="true"]https://www.rt.com/news/551456-us-china-russian-sanctions/[/URL]


Oh sanction China and global economy is in a 💩


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500799740849577986

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## Foinikas

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> He seems like he wants to surrender...
> 
> Which I don't think he will do


Changing the constitution to make Ukraine neutral is the most basic part of the deal,along with Crimea recognized as Russian land.

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## RescueRanger

Just the beginning of the xenophobia against ordinary Russians. Many Muslims will know what it feels like:

In this video an alleged Ukrainian man is harassing this Russian owned souvenir store in Portugal yelling “we don’t need moskals here”.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501138051568918538
Moskal is a pejorative term for Russians.

Below Bulgarian students vandalise a memorial depicting soviet troops liberating Bulgaria from the Nazis in WWII:

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## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> that's your opinion. I know when to take a small hit so I can come back later. It's all about patience. Finland did it in 1944 and 1948. They agreed to those exact terms: they gave up territory lost in the Soviet counterattack against them in WW2 since they were allies with Nazi Germany, they agreed to neutrality. Now where is Finland? They've basically won in the end.
> 
> By your logic they shouldn't have surrendered in 1944. They should've fought to the death alongside Nazi Germany. No surrender. But what would that have gotten them?



That is not what I mean.

First of all, Finland/Soviet Union war in 1941 is different than Ukrainian War in 2022.

Finland cannot do anything BUT ask to finish (pun intended) a deal with Soviet Union. Because 2 things, 1.) The instability of its government, risk a wider war with other Allies nation (SU is in the Allies back then)

And I don't see Finland "win" at the end, had they win, they would have Karelia, Pechengsky District returned to Finland.

Second of all, had Zelenskyy taken this "Deal" what guarantee the Russian will not back track on it? They cannot join NATO if the agree on this deal, so this is basically up to Russia to tore up that agreement when they see fits.

In case you had not noticed, Putin changes his mind more frequent than I changes girlfriend...


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## vizier

Donbass region can be given high autonomy similar to other examples in various countries. However some problems need to be solved. North Iraq region for example is also rich in natural resources sells oil without central govt share or control. This creates problems. High autonomy and some share of donbass mining resources profit with Ukraine central govt can rebuild those areas as well as war torn Ukraine.

Crimea recognized as Russia would be more difficult but not only for Ukraine. Any area with some ethnicity can make referandum to join somewhere else and create wars between countries. This will result in population shifts mass forced migrations and similar issues seeing this as a threat by many countries. Russia has many ethnic based regions daghestan, ingushetia chechnia etc. that can make referandums to join somewhere else. China has xingjiang region. Also what if kurdish regions join together making referandum in Syria and Iraq. It will be very complicated for majority of countries having diverse ethnic backgrounds and nonhomogeneous distribution of these population. It is crazy for Russia forcing it over Ukraine shooting themselves as well.

High autonomy like Donbass. accepting existing Russian bases there and non agression guarantee as a war outcome can be a solution in my opinion for Crimea.


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## gambit

Bleek said:


> But why do you think they are failing at all of those things stated?
> 
> Considering their fleet, shouldn't they be able to achieve that?


If you have one thousand soldiers but 500 swords, how many swordsmen can you send to battle? Now expand that analogy to logistics, from bombs to missiles to tires to rifles and so on. After 12 days, even the most conservative of analysts, armchair generals, and real generals have been forced to the logistics path -- that the Russian military is bad at it. When I said 'conservative' I do not mean the political context but the reserves they have before speaking.

Here is the US Air Force perspective...





__





Targeting the Luftwaffe | Air & Space Forces Magazine


When Spaatz and Doolittle changed the fighter strategy, it was the beginning of the end for German air




www.airforcemag.com





In January 1944, the new commander of Eighth Air Force, Maj. Gen. James H. Doolittle, was visiting his subordinate commander, Maj. Gen. William A. Kepner, at VIII Fighter Command, when he noticed a slogan on the wall. It read: *“The first duty of Eighth Air Force fighters is to bring the bombers back alive.”* Kepner said the sign was there when he got there. Doolittle told him to take it down, that it was wrong.​​*A new sign went up:* *“The first duty of Eighth Air Force fighters is to destroy German fighters.”*​​This was considerably more than a moment of fighter pilot bravado. It marked a key change in strategy in the air war in Europe.​​“As far as I’m concerned, this was the most important and far-reaching military decision I made during the war.” Doolittle said. “It was also the most controversial.”​​The fighters were no longer constrained to holding close formation with bombers. Instead, they would fly ahead, look for German fighters, and attack them where they found them.​​Bomber crews were dismayed at first, but the results were dramatic. Within a few months, the Allies had seized air superiority from the Germans and held it for the rest of the war. *The average monthly loss rate for Eighth Air Force heavy bombers fell from 5.1 percent in 1943 to 1.9 percent in 1944.*​​The highlighted is more than important, it is *CRITICAL*. Fighters are hunter-killers. Bombers, and everyone else, are preys. If you want everyone else to survive, you must kill the killers. Doolittle changed the mindset of the Eight Air Force from that of passivity -- protection -- to that of proactive -- hunt. That mindset never changed since WW II. It is even more noticeable that the world's air forces are filled with fighter-bombers, principally because few countries can afford diverse platforms like how the US or the Soviet Union can. That mean if you are a pilot, of any air force, and if you are not flying transports, your primary air skills must be ACM.

The Russian Air Force can reach just about all of Ukraine from inside Russia. Not only that, every air base can host other squadrons and even that of different platforms. So in theory, the VKS can have its entire fleet at Ukraine's borders which also in theory, should have achieved air superiority over Ukraine on the first day.

If I have to do this on a *LIMITED* aircraft budget...

*Day 1*. Strike all Ukrainian air fields with most Ukrainian fighters either destroyed or damaged while grounded. I will have the pilots do hot refuel and rearm if necessary to strike as many airfields as many times as possible.​​*Day 2*. Runway denial. Even though the MIG and Su platforms can take off from improvised runways. I would already know that and would damage associated areas that can be build up or already built as improvised runways.​​*Day 3*. Major airspace denial. This mean combat air patrol (CAP) over areas that the army required, major cities, and critical infrastructures. I want to preserve bridges and finished roads for the army.​
The longer the absence of the VKS over Ukraine, the more protracted and bloody the ground war will become for both sides because Russian artillery and ballistic missiles will replace the VKS but they are less accurate and precise. Not only that, without air suppression the Ukrainians will gain more experience with MANPADS and the Javelins which are pouring in essentially unchecked. The lower the flight altitude, the less situational awareness you have, and if you are a Russian Army helo pilot flying at treetop level, you will not have any time to avoid a MANPADS rocket as that video showed.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501080148568944642


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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Putin's goal is to cut off 🇺🇦 form Black sea access by "claiming" a russian territory from Odessa to Mariupol! Then by insurgents in Moldova to topple the government and by infiltrating more insurgents


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Nowhere to hide, they're forced to get their helis to hide in Romania. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501115081475559424

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## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> That is not what I mean.
> 
> First of all, Finland/Soviet Union war in 1941 is different than Ukrainian War in 2022.
> 
> Finland cannot do anything BUT ask to finish (pun intended) a deal with Soviet Union. Because 2 things, 1.) The instability of its government, risk a wider war with other Allies nation (SU is in the Allies back then)
> 
> And I don't see Finland "win" at the end, had they win, they would have Karelia, Pechengsky District returned to Finland.
> 
> Second of all, had Zelenskyy taken this "Deal" what guarantee the Russian will not back track on it? They cannot join NATO if the agree on this deal, so this is basically up to Russia to tore up that agreement when they see fits.
> 
> In case you had not noticed, Putin changes his mind more frequent than I changes girlfriend...


Finland also had no real guarantee. But they took the deal.

Finland won in the end because they are now a developed country with high standards of living and kept most of their territory.

Ukraine could still join EU under the deal. They can still become a developed country. They've spent decades stagnating. They had about the same GDP as today, back in 2006. Aren't they tired of this shit? What's to say that if they take this deal, they won't be like Finland and become a developed country in 20-30 years?


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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Foinikas said:


> Changing the constitution to make Ukraine neutral is the most basic part of the deal,along with Crimea recognized as Russian land.



He wants to surrender but Putin wants Odessa to Luhansk meaning I don't see him settling for Donbass

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## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Finland also had no real guarantee. But they took the deal.
> 
> Finland won in the end because they are now a developed country with high standards of living and kept most of their territory.
> 
> Ukraine could still join EU under the deal. They can still become a developed country. They've spent decades stagnating. They had about the same GDP as today, back in 2006. Aren't they tired of this shit? What's to say that if they take this deal, they won't be like Finland and become a developed country in 20-30 years?


Finland does not have guarantee, but it have a choice. They can join anyone, anytime, there are no restriction

And no, Ukraine do not have guarantee, nor choice, Ukraine will not be able to join ANY union, and have to remain neutral (The point read "Including neutrality in the constitution", I am pretty sure joining EU is not Neutral.) That is for both Political and Military Union, EU is the former.

And I would disagree your definition o Finnish "Won". It's like you are saying South Korea has "Won" the Korean war because they became a developed country with high living standard......


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## thetutle

Clutch said:


> That action broke the bond of trust that makes a bank a bank. And while effective – Russia can’t get access to hundreds of billions of foreign dollars it has painstakingly built up to buy supplies and support the ruble on currency markets – it can only be done at this scale once.



Broke the bond of trust? lol, Please dont tell me Russia thought that it could use western banks to help it expand its empire. Thats pretty naive. 



Clutch said:


> Freezing foreign reserves has been done before – but only to the less powerful nations like Iran, Afghanistan and Venezuela. This is the first time it’s ever been done to a member of the G20 or the UN Security Council.



this was only done to the less powerful before? Now that its done to Russia, does it mean its being done to the powerful countries? or have western countries concluded that Russia is not that powerful?



Clutch said:


> Russia has blocked Russians from sending money abroad, stopped paying foreigners interest payments on government debt and required every Russian firm earning dollars to hand over 80% of them in exchange for rubles.



What happened to that sacred bond and trust, between financial institutions and customers? How much will this encourage others to buy Russian debt? Would you buy Russian debt with your own money?



Clutch said:


> The global financial system changed when the West did the barely thinkable on February 27. It’s hard to see a way back.


It was always going to happen, Putin didnt see it the sae way sadder didnt see it, and gadhaffi didnt see it, and Assad didnt see it despite it happening to all the others. In the same way Putin didnt see it. And china wont learn any lesson, they hold all the American debt. they have trillions of American debt. If china fights the west, which it wont hopefully, US will just not pay any of the debt back. Thats how it works when you control the world financial system.

but there is no need to be in the world financial system, you can set up your own right? do it. Who is stopping anyone?

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## Iñigo

In this Ukrainian crisis (which began in 2008 and 2014) it has become clear that the so-called "The West" is not a rational actor, but a religious cult. The Taliban leaders are by comparison reasonable people who are capable of compromise.

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## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> Finland does not have guarantee, but it have a choice. They can join anyone, anytime, there are no restriction
> 
> And no, Ukraine do not have guarantee, nor choice, Ukraine will not be able to join ANY union, and have to remain neutral (The point read "Including neutrality in the constitution", I am pretty sure joining EU is not Neutral.) That is for both Political and Military Union, EU is the former.


ok, that means can still keep their economic association with EU. Like I said, aren't they tired of economic stagnation and struggling?


----------



## Ashesh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501149096949608451

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## gambit

jhungary said:


> Finland does not have guarantee, but it have a choice. They can join anyone, anytime, there are no restriction
> 
> And no, Ukraine do not have guarantee, nor choice, Ukraine will not be able to join ANY union, and have to remain neutral (The point read "Including neutrality in the constitution", I am pretty sure joining EU is not Neutral.) That is for both Political and Military Union, EU is the former.


I read somewhere that the Russia deal include the demand that the Ukrainian PM be approved by Russia, essentially making the Ukrainian president, whoever he/she maybe, a puppet. So why should Zelensky take that deal when he would condemn Ukraine to become a vassal state anyway?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501146185180008448

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CAPRICORN-88

Russia reveals evidence of U.S.-funded bio-program in Ukraine
CGTN







Graphic shows part of U.S.-funded overseas bio-labs. /CGTN
Russian defense ministry spokesperson said on Sunday that evidence of a U.S.-financed military biological program developed in Ukraine has been revealed during Russia's special operation on Ukraine.
The spokesperson Igor Konashenkov said, "In the course of the special military operation, evidence of the Kyiv regime's hasty measures to conceal any traces of the military biological program, financed by the U.S. Department of Defense in Ukraine, has been revealed."
Konashenkov pointed out that the employees of Ukrainian bio laboratories had provided information that especially hazardous pathogens: plague, anthrax, cholera, tularemia and other lethal diseases infecting agents had been urgently destroyed following the beginning of Russia's special military operation in Ukraine on February 24.
The defense ministry further informed that the results of the analysis of the documents will be shared in the near future.
"We will share the results of the analysis of the documents we have received in the near future. Some of them, in particular the Ukrainian health ministry's instruction to destroy pathogens and certificates of completion from the Kharkov and Poltava bio laboratories we are publishing right now," Konashenkov added.





A screenshot of The Rio Times' online page.
*U.S. embassy deletes files on Ukrainian bio-labs*
According to a report of The Rio Times and a Twitter message posted by the Brazilian new agency's investigative journalist Dilyana Gaytandzhieva, the American Embassy in Ukraine on February 26 removed all documents about Pentagon-financed bio-labs in Ukraine from its website. But they forgot to remove a document showing that the Pentagon is funding two new biolabs in Kyiv and Odesa.
One of the old labs financed by the U.S. in Ukraine is located in Kharkiv, the country's second-largest city. In January 2016, at least 20 Ukrainian soldiers died there from a flu-like virus in two days while another 200 soldiers were hospitalized. However, the Ukrainian government did not provide details on the soldiers who died.





A screenshot of The Rio Times' investigative journalist Dilyana Gaytandzhieva's Tweet.
*U.S.-funded overseas bio-labs concerns*
The U.S. has set up over 200 bio-labs in 25 countries and regions across the Middle East, Africa, Southeast Asia and the former Soviet Union, with 16 in Ukraine alone.
Some of the places where the labs are based have seen large-scale outbreaks of measles and other dangerous infectious diseases, triggering international concerns about the safety of U.S. overseas laboratories.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Russians are claiming Ukrainian nationalists has refused to let the civilians go again..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501145245064613888


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## Trango Towers

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Nowhere to hide, they're forced to get their helis to hide in Romania.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501115081475559424


Oh wait ukranins airforce is intact and fighting? The ghost of Kiev farted and Russians in Siberia died.



Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Russians are claiming Ukrainian nationalists has refused to let the civilians go again..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501145245064613888


Always two sides to a story

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## Iñigo



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## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> ok, that means can still keep their economic association with EU. Like I said, aren't they tired of economic stagnation and struggling?


Actually, if you look at Ukraine economic development, you will see they had been improving from 93 billions in 2015 to 170 billions estimated in 2021, and IMF pegged that to become 201 Billions before the war, their economy is actually better than when they were pre-maidan.

Russia on the other hand have steadily go down since 2013, when they had around 2.3 Trillion dollars, down to 1.46 in 2021.





__





Ukraine GDP 1987-2022


GDP at purchaser's prices is the sum of gross value added by all resident producers in the economy plus any product taxes and minus any subsidies not included in the value of the products. It is calculated without making deductions for depreciation of fabricated assets or for depletion and...




www.macrotrends.net








__





Russia GDP 1988-2022


GDP at purchaser's prices is the sum of gross value added by all resident producers in the economy plus any product taxes and minus any subsidies not included in the value of the products. It is calculated without making deductions for depreciation of fabricated assets or for depletion and...




 www.macrotrends.net





And no, association of EU will not provide Security Guarantee for Ukraine. I would say they won't be guarantee even if they were actually in EU.


----------



## Trango Towers

Iñigo said:


>


Looool Russians will hit Poland and its NATOS fault

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501136476674924544

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## AZMwi

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500949638458880002


u r posting same sh*t twice and thrice. stop it mate.

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## Foinikas

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> He wants to surrender but Putin wants Odessa to Luhansk meaning I don't see him settling for Donbass


That would make Ukrainians turn against Zelensky. I understand the Russians for wanting that part,but Ukrainians would never accept it. And I don't think Zelensky will either.


----------



## jhungary

gambit said:


> I read somewhere that the Russia deal include the demand that the Ukrainian PM be approved by Russia, essentially making the Ukrainian president, whoever he/she maybe, a puppet. So why should Zelensky take that deal when he would condemn Ukraine to become a vassal state anyway?



Never heard of this from this deal. I only know 3 condition.

1.) remain Neutral
2.) Crimea is Russian
3.) Donbas independent.

I have not heard of Russia being to "Confirm" any future leader in this deal, although I think they were in the peacetalk before.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

jhungary said:


> Never heard of this from this deal. I only know 3 condition.
> 
> 1.) remain Neutral
> 2.) Crimea is Russian
> 3.) Donbas independent.
> 
> I have not heard of Russia being to "Confirm" any future leader in this deal, although I think they were in the peacetalk before.



There is more then just Donbass is independent but an enlarged donbass that includes Odessa to Luhansk


----------



## coffee_cup

FairAndUnbiased said:


> ok, that means can still keep their economic association with EU. Like I said, aren't they tired of economic stagnation and struggling?



Normal Ukrainians are but not Zelensky types who are swimming in gold.

And the reason why they are filthy rich is the very reason the other Ukrainians are kept poor.

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## jhungary

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> There is more then just Donbass is independent but an enlarged donbass that includes Odessa to Luhansk



Think the condition is read exactly as

*Recognition of the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics as independent states*

Well, Odessa is on the other side of Ukraine, and Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics in reality is smaller than Donbas.


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

jhungary said:


> Think the condition is read exactly as
> 
> *Recognition of the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics as independent states*
> 
> Well, Odessa is on the other side of Ukraine, and Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics in reality is smaller than Donbas.



The republics of Donetsk and Luhansk could lay claim on it..


----------



## jhungary

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> The republics of Donetsk and Luhansk could lay claim on it..


Sure, if they want to lay claim on Kyiv, does that mean they should give them that too??

Their Region is in Donbas, and if this goes outside of their region then there aren't really point of accepting anything. Because if they can lay claim on Odessa, they can lay claim to any or all Ukrainian City or Oblast.


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

jhungary said:


> Sure, if they want to lay claim on Kyiv, does that mean they should give them that too??
> 
> Their Region is in Donbas, and if this goes outside of their region then there aren't really point of accepting anything. Because if they can lay claim on Odessa, they can lay claim to any or all Ukrainian City or Oblast.



That is the whole point. Putin doesn't believe Ukraine is an independent country and is of the opinion over half of the territories given to them happened via mistake made by Lenin


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501157750348423178

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## jhungary

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> That is the whole point. Putin doesn't believe Ukraine is an independent country and is of the opinion over half of the territories given to them happened via mistake made by Lenin


The point is, if this is the case, then why bother listing it in the first place? Why even extend this "deal" to begin with, you think Russia will believe Ukrainian would fall for this quickie?


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501160082800787459


jhungary said:


> The point is, if this is the case, then why bother listing it in the first place? Why even extend this "deal" to begin with, you think Russia will believe Ukrainian would fall for this quickie?



I don't think the Ukrainians would even fail for Donbass but the Russians want to give impossible options the Ukrainians can't agree to in order to take the whole country


----------



## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501080148568944642


Correct me if I am wrong, but this looks like the vehicle was hit from above?


----------



## Iñigo

"Putin doesn't believe Ukraine is an independent country"

This is the intolerable level of lies and propaganda to which we have become accustomed as if it were the most natural thing in the world.

This Ukraine crisis started in 2008 and 2014, the Russian government has been very patient. What it asked for was fair and reasonable: (1) stop killing Russian-Ukrainians and (2) a neutral Ukraine.

Now, after this colossal tragedy, Ukraine will no longer be 'independent' and 'free' to threaten Russia.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500823580572995593

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## Foinikas

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> The republics of Donetsk and Luhansk could lay claim on it..


I think this map is kind of bull. Crimea had a far larger percentage of Russians and the percentage in the rest of the areas is just too small. Unless they probably considered Russian-speaking people as Ukrainians. It doesn't add-up. There are way more Russians and pro-Russians especially in the East.

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## Foinikas

RescueRanger said:


> Just the beginning of the xenophobia against ordinary Russians. Many Muslims will know what it feels like:
> 
> In this video an alleged Ukrainian man is harassing this Russian owned souvenir store in Portugal yelling “we don’t need moskals here”.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501138051568918538
> Moskal is a pejorative term for Russians.
> 
> Below Bulgarian students vandalise a memorial depicting soviet troops liberating Bulgaria from the Nazis in WWII:
> View attachment 821893


Bulgarians have changed sides a gazillion times in modern history.

1912 Bulgaria joins the Balkan League against the Ottoman Empire
1913 they attack their former Balkan League allies
WWI they ally themselves with the Germans and Ottomans
WWII they ally themselves with the Germans and switch sides when the Soviets are about to invade Bulgaria
Cold War they become part of the Warsaw Pact
After the Cold War they join NATO

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## Vergennes

"Russian army doesn't target civilians". Meanwhile...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501163159138275331


Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498489491589406722

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## jhungary

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501160082800787459
> 
> 
> I don't think the Ukrainians would even fail for Donbass but the Russians want to give impossible options the Ukrainians can't agree to in order to take the whole country



There are not enough troop to take the whole country, Law Enforcement effort alone would need at least twice the amount of the current Russia Troop in Ukraine, then you have the Construction Side (Hearts and Mind) and Military Operation Side. You will need approximate 3 to 4 times the troop they have in Ukraine right now. Not to mention you are talking about a 45 millions hostile population, not the 1.3 million in Chechen.

And all that the Russian have to done on top of being Sanction....

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## Ali_Baba

Russia BREAKS ceasefire to shell evacuation routes out of besieged Mariupol​








Heartbreaking pictures show Ukrainian kids hiding from Russian bombs


The port city of Mariupol is one of the Ukrainian cities worst hit since the invasion began, with Russian bombardments bringing widespread destruction (children pictured in makeshift bomb shelter)




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## Ashesh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501166861156818947


----------



## FuturePAF

The hundreds of Indian students stuck in SUMY university in Ukraine is being highlighted in last night’s news on one of the major news channels (NBC) here in the US.

India has had to reach out to Putin to try to find a way to get their students out. Seems like their MEA is dropping the ball on doing it themselves.


----------



## thetutle

Iñigo said:


> The Russians dismantled the USSR and hoped in return to be accepted in the West (which is an old wish) and that NATO would not consider them their enemy.
> 
> But the Anglo-imperial oligarchy suffers from a deep, pathological and incurable Russophobia that permeates everything, and London and Washington have been spitting on the USSR's tomb/grave for 30 years.
> 
> And the matter has culminated in demands for 'freedom' to kill Russian-Ukrainians and 'independence' to corner and threaten Russia.


So why doesn't Russia attack the "anglo-imperial oligarchy"? Why does Russia need to extend its empire into Ukraine?

BTW, Roamanian courts just seized 650 million Euro in assets from Russian owned Lukoil relating to their criminal activities.


----------



## Trango Towers

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500823580572995593


A human catastrophe. But being blonde hair and blue eyed they are the chosen ones.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501149671229636608


----------



## Patriot forever

Foinikas said:


> That would make Ukrainians turn against Zelensky. I understand the Russians for wanting that part,but Ukrainians would never accept it. And I don't think Zelensky will either.
> 
> View attachment 821905



People don't know what was happening in Ukraine. Just to give a brief account. 

1) Russian language was banned in Ukraine. 
2) 2 major Eastern Ukrainian parties were banned in elections to bring the nazis to power. 

If you looked at any genuine map Russia has taken more than 50% of that green belt already and is taking more day by day.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501175649796509699

Fresh shipment of anti tank missiles


----------



## Foinikas

Patriot forever said:


> People don't know what was happening in Ukraine. Just to give a brief account.
> 
> 1) Russian language was banned in Ukraine.
> 2) 2 major Eastern Ukrainian parties were banned in elections to bring the nazis to power.
> 
> If you looked at any genuine map Russia has taken more than 50% of that green belt already and is taking more day by day.


They also banned all minorities except the Tatar one.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501177982731407365


----------



## Paul2

No new phase of combat still.

Russians still avoid contact warfare. Few sporadic flanking, diversion, recon moves, but still trying to regroup using the ceasefire.

Attrition rates seem to be getting linearised.

They currently trade better than 1:1, and it will be not enough Russian army in Ukraine to out-attrite Ukrainians. They will have to mobilise the remaining 30% of its military from all over the country.

As the war goes, Ukrainians will have to employ more territorials, which it has plenty, but with nearly no war experience, or training (which is the same as with Russian draftees.)

While Ukrainian regulars last, they need to start prioritising targets. Locating, and gunting down Russian top units is a must to preserve force, and let territorials have easier time.

Ukrainian weakness now is that their territorials are not being used even against weakest Russian formations offensively. Even fighting off smallest towns from a single Russian platoon takes too much attention from Ukrainian regular army.


----------



## Messerschmitt

Vergennes said:


> "Russian army doesn't target civilians". Meanwhile...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501163159138275331
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498489491589406722


I hope the Russian public will see this...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501184985629347840

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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> No new phase of combat still.
> 
> Russians still avoid contact warfare. Few sporadic flanking, diversion, recon moves, but still trying to regroup using the ceasefire.
> 
> Attrition rates seem to be getting linearised.
> 
> They currently trade better than 1:1, and it will be not enough Russian army in Ukraine to out-attrite Ukrainians. They will have to mobilise the remaining 30% of its military from all over the country.
> 
> As the war goes, Ukrainians will have to employ more territorials, which it has plenty, but with nearly no war experience, or training (which is the same as with Russian draftees.)
> 
> While Ukrainian regulars last, they need to start prioritising targets. Locating, and gunting down Russian top units is a must to preserve force, and let territorials have easier time.
> 
> Ukrainian weakness now is that their territorials are not being used even against weakest Russian formations offensively.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501171543371665408

Fresh shipments of anti tank weapons continue to flow to Ukrainian units. Even in the Far East of Ukraine

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## Ashesh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501188389445390338

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501183729359802372

US to ban the import of Russian oil

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501171543371665408
> 
> Fresh shipments of anti tank weapons continue to flow to Ukrainian units. Even in the Far East of Ukraine



It's only the second shipment to Kharkiv I managed to count.

They really need more fresh crack troops with support weapons, and APCs to scout, and clear softer Russian forces like artillery around the city. Ideally, they need arty for counterbat, but mortars will probably the only thing they can get into the city now.

It's a blessing though that most Russian armour just decided to bypass Kharkiv, and went deeper into the country, while not doing anything. They will be basically just guzzling diesel, and losing heavy armour to breakdowns, and mud in the middle of nowhere for the next 2-3 days, while trying to reach Kiyv from the East.


----------



## Ashesh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501189428647276561


----------



## Messerschmitt

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501183729359802372
> 
> US to ban the import of Russian oil




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501184707479932928

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501133808996921345
I misread this as $10 and thought he was trolling. But $10 million is a considerable amount

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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> It's only the second shipment to Kharkiv I managed to count.
> 
> They really need more crack troops, and APCs to scout, and clear softer Russian forces like artillery around the city.
> 
> It's a blessing though that most Russian armour just decided to bypass Kharkiv, and went deeper into the country, while not doing anything. They will be basically just guzzling diesel, and losing heavy armour to breakdowns, and mud in the middle of nowhere for the next 2-3 days, while trying to reach Kiyv from the East.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501170083976126464

Russians now having to transport their troops in garbage trucks in some regions.

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501170083976126464
> 
> Russians now having to transport their troops in garbage trucks in some regions.




Yes, Russia lost so much armour, but they will unlikely go into bum rush offensive across open country again, and not give Ukraine another opportunity to use its ATGM advantage.

But if they will, Ukrainians need to seize it, and deploy inlaws behind every bush, and tree on the axis of Russian offensive.

Russian army's decision to integrate low value draftees into their regulars backfired massively.

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## Iñigo

Kay-Achim Schönbach - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





the last free German ... reminds us that Tomas Torquemada was a fuxxxx amateur









Tomás de Torquemada - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## Wood



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## Dalit

Forget the Ukraine Russia conflict for a moment. What I have enjoyed most is the hypocritical US/Western outrage against Pakistan for remaining neutral. At times it felt like the Americans and Europeans want to blame Pakistan for the entire fiasco. Just have a look at the insane amount of coverage given to Pakistan:









Pak Official's UK Visit Cancelled Apparently Over Policy On Russia-Ukraine War: Report


The UK government has unilaterally called off the scheduled visit of Pakistan's National Security Adviser Moeed Yusuf to London apparently because of Islamabad's policy towards Russia's military offensive against Ukraine, according to a media report




www.ndtv.com












Western-Led Pressure Grows on Pakistan to Condemn Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine


Islamabad has avoided criticizing the Russian assault on Ukraine and called on both sides to seek a negotiated settlement to the conflict




www.voanews.com












Pakistan Walks Thin Line Between Russia, Ukraine


Pakistan, a key non-NATO ally of US, abstained from voting on UN General Assembly's condemnation resolution against Russia




www.voanews.com












Pakistan’s Prime Minister Takes on the West


Imran’s Khan’s tirade against the U.S. comes at a time when he is facing serious political challenges at home.



thediplomat.com












'Are we your slaves?' Pakistan PM lashes out against EU


Pakistani PM Imran Khan's comments were in response to foreign pressure pushing Islamabad to criticise Russia's invasion of Ukraine.




english.alaraby.co.uk












US warns Pakistan of Ukraine war consequences


FO objects to envoys’ letter issued earlier this week urging Islamabad to denounce Moscow’s actions.



www.dawn.com












Pakistan under western pressure to condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine


The NATO, US, UK and the European Union (EU) are taking to global platforms like the UN General Assembly (UNGA) to gather global support in condemning Russia over its aggression in Ukraine




www.business-standard.com












Why was Pakistan’s PM in Russia amid the Ukraine invasion?


Prime Minister Imran Khan had little to gain and much to lose from backing out of his planned visit to Moscow.




www.aljazeera.com












Podcast: US choices, global consequences: Hina Khar on India, Pakistan, Afghanistan & broken democracy


Listen: As Russian forces invaded Ukraine, Pakistan's PM Imran Khan, one of Vladimir Putin’s few friends, visited Moscow. But his trip did not go down well in the US. With Washington ready to downgrade its relationship with Islamabad, Khan is looking to form new friendships to protect Pakistan's...




www.gzeromedia.com












EU Council president speaks with PM amid hiccup in ties | The Express Tribune


Imran hopes for a diplomatic deal over Ukraine conflict




tribune.com.pk

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## thetutle

The Russian general that was killed today was near the Russian border and had to use the an unencrypted phone. The ukranian forces triangulated his position and killed him with a precise stand off weapon. 

The FSB guy with him contacted his commanders in Tula and that conversation was also intercepted and will be published at some point. 

So thats clearly not a capability that Ukraine has.

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## Ashesh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501197560354013185

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## F-22Raptor

thetutle said:


> The Russian general that was killed today was near the Russian border and had to use the an unencrypted phone. The ukranian forces triangulated his position and killed him with a precise stand off weapon.
> 
> The FSB guy with him contacted his commanders in Tula and that conversation was also intercepted and will be published at some point.
> 
> So thats clearly not a capability that Ukraine has.




Its an open secret that the US is attacking Russian networks and intercepting their comms and passing that info to the Ukrainians.

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## Paul2

thetutle said:


> The Russian general that was killed today was near the Russian border and had to use the an unencrypted phone. The ukranian forces triangulated his position and killed him with a precise stand off weapon.
> 
> The FSB guy with him contacted his commanders in Tula and that conversation was also intercepted and will be published at some point.
> 
> So thats clearly not a capability that Ukraine has.



Ukrainians were getting phone intercepts in the 2014 war.

In the first days of war, they were already going after Russian comms very purposefully on scale bigger than any kind of "tipoff" action can.

Radio direction finding is not a rocket science, but what every self-respecting army had since sixties/seventies.

In fact, enemy commanders subject themselves to a greater danger by using encrypted communications, because frequencies they use instantly out them.

The enemy sees "hey look, somebody has a fancy encrypted radio here, it must be somebody big!" This is why Russian use of unencrypted radios along with encrypted is such a tragedy. Anybody using encrypted transmission is instantly being suspected of being a member of the command chain, and gets few arty rounds coming in his direction.


----------



## thetutle

Paul2 said:


> Ukrainians were getting phone intercepts in the 2014 war.
> 
> In the first days of war, they were already going after Russian comms very purposefully on scale bigger than any kind of "tipoff" can.


Yeah, they were also told of the exact day of the invasion. On CNN by Biden himself.

How easily could the Russians reverse engineer the javelin once they have some samples?



Paul2 said:


> The enemy sees "hey look, somebody has a fancy encrypted radio here, it must be somebody big!" This is why Russian use of unencrypted radios along with encrypted is such a tragedy. Anybody using encrypted transmission instantly recognised as s member of the command chain, and killed.


Well it means that the Americans have the ability to recognise the voice of the person on an unencrypted line out of al the 10's of thousands of call being made at the same time. Pretty impressive.


----------



## Paul2

thetutle said:


> How easily could the Russians reverse engineer the javelin once they have some samples?



Even if they will do, how they will make them?

Javelin is not some kind of secret bomber. If Russians wanted to get hands on few samples, they would've already done that with ease.


----------



## Kraetoz

Dalit said:


> Forget the Ukraine Russia conflict for a moment. What I have enjoyed most is the hypocritical US/Western outrage against Pakistan for remaining neutral. At times it felt like the Americans and Europeans want to blame Pakistan for the entire fiasco. Just have a look at the insane amount of coverage given to Pakistan:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pak Official's UK Visit Cancelled Apparently Over Policy On Russia-Ukraine War: Report
> 
> 
> The UK government has unilaterally called off the scheduled visit of Pakistan's National Security Adviser Moeed Yusuf to London apparently because of Islamabad's policy towards Russia's military offensive against Ukraine, according to a media report
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ndtv.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Western-Led Pressure Grows on Pakistan to Condemn Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine
> 
> 
> Islamabad has avoided criticizing the Russian assault on Ukraine and called on both sides to seek a negotiated settlement to the conflict
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.voanews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan Walks Thin Line Between Russia, Ukraine
> 
> 
> Pakistan, a key non-NATO ally of US, abstained from voting on UN General Assembly's condemnation resolution against Russia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.voanews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan’s Prime Minister Takes on the West
> 
> 
> Imran’s Khan’s tirade against the U.S. comes at a time when he is facing serious political challenges at home.
> 
> 
> 
> thediplomat.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Are we your slaves?' Pakistan PM lashes out against EU
> 
> 
> Pakistani PM Imran Khan's comments were in response to foreign pressure pushing Islamabad to criticise Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> english.alaraby.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US warns Pakistan of Ukraine war consequences
> 
> 
> FO objects to envoys’ letter issued earlier this week urging Islamabad to denounce Moscow’s actions.
> 
> 
> 
> www.dawn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan under western pressure to condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine
> 
> 
> The NATO, US, UK and the European Union (EU) are taking to global platforms like the UN General Assembly (UNGA) to gather global support in condemning Russia over its aggression in Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.business-standard.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why was Pakistan’s PM in Russia amid the Ukraine invasion?
> 
> 
> Prime Minister Imran Khan had little to gain and much to lose from backing out of his planned visit to Moscow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Podcast: US choices, global consequences: Hina Khar on India, Pakistan, Afghanistan & broken democracy
> 
> 
> Listen: As Russian forces invaded Ukraine, Pakistan's PM Imran Khan, one of Vladimir Putin’s few friends, visited Moscow. But his trip did not go down well in the US. With Washington ready to downgrade its relationship with Islamabad, Khan is looking to form new friendships to protect Pakistan's...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gzeromedia.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU Council president speaks with PM amid hiccup in ties | The Express Tribune
> 
> 
> Imran hopes for a diplomatic deal over Ukraine conflict
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tribune.com.pk


We would have condemned Russia, if they had condemned, imposed sanctions and cut trade ties with India when they abrogated article 370. Now we would just stay neutral, have them both sit on negotiation table if we can and strive for peace.

Imran Khan snubbed and brushed them off already, when they wanted us to Condemn Russia. "Are we your slaves?" - PM Imran Khan

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## HaMoTZeMaS

Trango Towers said:


> As you are so well connected. Give me the number


that might be the last thing i would consider to do .. let me enjoy the devastation a few more days

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## Meengla

F-22Raptor said:


> Its an open secret that the US is attacking Russian networks and intercepting their comms and passing that info to the Ukrainians.



Everyone knows that Russia is fighting the entire West and for years in Ukraine. And that makes the conflict much more dangerous! A seemingly defeated Russia likely to throw in everything into Ukraine and the foreign suppliers when they are inside Ukraine. Possibly some massive bombs and even tactical nukes could be used. Russia has already made accusations of chemical and/or biological weapons factory inside Ukraine; they could use that as an excuse to really cross some boundaries in a do or die situation. 

We should not rule out anything once some thresholds are reached. *If a Russian victory would be bad for Ukraine then a Russian loss would be bad for not just Ukraine but for a much wider region!*

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## Dalit

Kraetoz said:


> We would have condemned Russia, if they had condemned, imposed sanctions and cut trade ties with India when they abrogated article 370. Now we would just stay neutral, have them both sit on negotiation table if we can and strive for peace.
> 
> Imran Khan snubbed and brushed them off already, when they wanted us to Condemn Russia. "Are we your slaves?" - PM Imran Khan



We made the mistake of choosing the US over Russia during Liaquat Ali Khan's days. The country paid in blood and never recovered. Finally we have some neutrality and the entire Western diplomatic bandwagon again wants to derail the new development. Imran Khan did exactly the right thing. He should do it all over again if the situation demands it.

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501195844690796553

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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> We should not rule out anything once some thresholds are reached. *If a Russian victory would be bad for Ukraine then a Russian loss would be bad for not just Ukraine but for a much wider region!*


I think we'll take our chances.


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## Avicenna

thetutle said:


> I think we'll take our chances.



Speak for yourself.

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## F-22Raptor

The 21st century has been full of conflict. From Kosovo, to the Horn of Africa, to Afghanistan, to Iraq, to Syria, and now Ukraine the battlefield keeps changing and evolving. Many of you have been following the events in Ukraine extremely closely. To help you make better sense of the situation in Ukraine, I’m going to introduce you to three military terms — Battalion Tactical Groups (BTGs), Order of Battle (OoB), and Crowd Sourced Battle Damage Assessments (BDA) — which will help deepen your understanding of the invasion. Along the way, you’ll also get a better grasp of one way that the US Army looks at measuring how the war is going.

*Battalion Tactical Group (BTGs)*

A Battalion Tactical Group, or BTG, is the primary combined-arms maneuver unit used by the Russian Army. In NATO militaries, this grouping would be called a Task Force. (I wrote an article about Task Forces (corporate people might call this a matrix’ed organization) last year). A typical BTG is comprised of one tank company, three infantry companies, one Anti-Tank (AT) missile company, one engineer company, two field artillery batteries, and one Surface to Air Missile (SAM) Battery. Each BTG has approximately 600 soldiers assigned to it.

BTGs formed the mainstay of Russia's military intervention in Ukraine from 2013–2015 and now in 2022. In other words, the BTGs are the “tip of the spear” for the conventional Russian military. As of August 2021, Russia had approximately 170 BTGs scattered across the country.

The diagram below depicts the organization of a typical BTG.

*BTG Sub Units:*

To further understand the BTG, let’s look at each subunit in detail. The subunits in a Battalion Tactical Group are BTG’s command and control, one tank company, three infantry companies, one Anti-Tank (AT) missile company, one engineer company, two field artillery batteries, and one Surface to Air Missile (SAM) Battery. A company or a battery is an organization of about 50-100 people.

BTG Command and Control: 3x MT-LB for the BTG commander and his staff.

_Total: 3x MT-LBs_

One Tank Company — A Russian Tank Company typically has 30 soldiers who man 10x T-72B3 tanks.

_Total: 10x T-72B3s _(-72, -80, -90)

Three Infantry Companies — A Russian Infantry Company typically has 50 soldiers who work out of 11x BMPs or BTR-80s Armored Personnel Carriers.

_Total: 33x BMPs (-1,-2,-3) or BTR-80s _

AT Company — A Russian Anti-Tank (AT) Missile Company typically has 4x BMP-3s type-vehicles armed with the AT-11 “Sniper” or AT-14 “Spriggan” Anti-Tank guided missiles (Shturm-S ATGM Carrier).

_Total: 4x BMP-3s w/ AT-14s (Shturm-S ATGM Carrier)_

One Engineer Company — Engineer Companies can be task organized to support proposed BTG missions. Most Engineer companies have 3x BAT-2 and 2x IMR-2

_Total: 3x BAT-2s and 2x IMR-2s_

Two Field Artillery Batteries — A Russian Field Artillery Battery typically has 6x 152mm self propelled howitzers (6x 2S19 Msta*) *and 2x MT-LBu ACRVs (commander and fire direction center). These weapons can fire XX distance. A Russian Multiple Launch Rocket System Battery typically has 6x 122mm BM-21 Grad rocket systems along with support trucks. These weapons can fire XX distance.

_Total: 6 x 152 mm 2S19 Msta + 2x MT-LB ACRV + 6x BM-21 122mm MLRS_

One Surface to Air Missile (SAM) or Air Defense Artillery (ADA) Battery — A Russian SAM Battery typically has 6x anti-aircraft systems in it. A Pantsir-S1 equipped battery has 6 trucks, each which has 2x 30mm cannons and 12 x 57E6-E Surface to Air Missiles.

_Total: 6x Pantsir-S1 + 2x MT-LB ACRV_


*So, the total vehicles in a Prototypical BTG = 33x BMPs, 10x T-72s, 4x Shturm-S ATGM Carrier, 3x BAT-2s and 2x IMR-2s, 6 x 152 mm 2S19 Msta, 6x BM-21 122mm MLRS, 6x Pantsir-S1, and 7x MT-LB ACRV. There would be approximately 600 soldiers in the BTG.

Order of Battle*

The order of battle tries to depict the hierarchical organization, command structure, strength, disposition of personnel, and disposition of equipment of military units participating in a military operation. Corporate types would recognize this as an org chart. For the purpose of this blog post, I’m only going to focus on the Order of Battle/potential disposition of the Russian military equipment involved in the invasion of Ukraine.

The Institute for the Study of War is a Washington, DC based think-tank that has tracked wars for the past two decades. On January 25, 2022, ISW assessed that there were at least 66 BTGs postured around Ukraine.

I’m going to make the assumption that ISW didn’t get their picture exactly right and that Russia moved a few more units into the region to participate in the invasion from January 26 to February 23. If Russia invaded the Ukraine with 75x BTGs, there would be approximately:


*750x T-72/80/90 Tanks*
*2,475x BMPs/BTRs (Armored Personnel Carriers),*
*300x Shturm-S ATGM Carriers*
*225x BAT-2s and 150x IMR-2s (Engineer Vehicles)*
*450 x 152 mm 2S19 Msta*
*450x BM-21 122mm MLRS*
*450x Pantsir-S1*
*525x MT-LB ACRV *
in the invasion force. There would also be about 45,000 troops in the BTG formations. The rest of the Russian invasion force (reported to be over 100,000+) is in the support forces.

*Crowd Sourcing Battle Damage Assessment*

The invasion of Ukraine began on February 24, 2022. Each day the conflict continues, both Russian and Ukraine forces lose vehicles from combat. These vehicles were destroyed, damaged, abandoned, or captured in battle. Battle Damage Assessment, or BDA, is “the estimate of damage composed of physical and functional damage assessment, as well as target system assessment, resulting from the application of lethal or nonlethal military force.” In the old days, the Battalion or Brigade Intelligence Officer had to collect reports from helicopter pilots, Air Force pilots, forward observers, and ground forces who engaged the enemy. Based on these reports, the Intelligence Officer would make an assessment of how badly the enemy had been damaged from the actions of friendly forces.

Stijn Mitzer, along with Joost Oliemans, Kemal Janovsky, Dan Janovsky, and Jakub Janovsky, have taken this idea into the 21st Century. The five people are attempting to crowd source battle damage assessments in real-time from both the Russian and Ukraine armed forces during the invasion of Ukraine on *The Oryx Website*. The team finds photos of destroyed, abandoned, and captured vehicles and then tries to count them based on the vehicle type. They also categories them based on the vehicle being destroyed, abandoned, or captured. The team does its best to make sure that they are not counting the same vehicle twice and are updating it daily. Check it our yourself — the link to their regularly updated article is here.

As of March 7, 2022 at 3:00 PM EST *the Oryx Website* assesses that the Russian forces have lost (the numbers had already changed before I finished writing the post):


*140 Tanks* (T-72s, 80s, and 90s — 42 destroyed, 2 damaged, 26 abandoned, and 69 captured)
*181 Armored Personnel Carriers* (BMPs or BTRs — 65 destroyed, 35 abandoned, and 81 captured)
*2 Shtrum-S ATGM Carriers *(1 destroyed and 1 abandoned)
*36 Engineering Vehicles* (including 1x BAT-2, 1x IMR-2)
*63 Field Artillery pieces *(including 9x 2S19 Mstas and 16x 122mm BM-21 Grads)
*23 SAM Systems* (including 4x Pantsir-S1s)
*63 MT-LB *(17 destroyed, 12 abandoned, and 34 captured)
*Advanced BDA:*

Just counting damaged, destroyed, and captured vehicles in Basic BDA. Taking the raw numbers and then assessing the impact on the invasion force is Advanced BDA. Advanced BDA helps military leaders understand the context and make better decisions.

The military uses three categories to measure the impact on enemy units: suppressed, neutralized, or destroyed. As you would expect, each of these terms has a military definition. *Suppress* is a tactical mission task that results in temporary degradation of the performance of a force or weapons system below the level needed to accomplish its mission. It is the lowest level and typically equates to 3% of a friendly or enemy unit’s equipment being destroyed, damaged, abandoned, or captured. *Neutralize* is a tactical mission task that results in rendering enemy personnel or materiel incapable of interfering with a particular operation. It is in the middle and usually equates to 10% of a friendly or enemy unit’s equipment being destroyed, damaged, abandoned, or captured. *Destroy* is a tactical mission task that physically renders an enemy force combat-ineffective until it is reconstituted. It is the highest level and usually equals to 30% of a friendly or enemy unit’s equipment being destroyed, damaged, abandoned, or captured.

Remember the order of battle of the invasion force? I will use the OoB numbers as our denominator, as I try to figure out if the Russians are suppressed (3%), neutralized (10%), or destroyed (30%) as part of the Advanced BDA process. This helps to provide context for the losses reported on the web. Based on the crowd-sourced losses on the *Oryx website* on March 7, 2022:


*140 Losses out of an estimated 750x T-72/80/90s Tanks — 18.6% Losses (Neutralized)*
Average of 12x tanks damaged, destroyed, abandoned and captured per day of the conflict

*181 Losses out of an estimated 2,475x BMPs/BTRs (Armored Personnel Carriers) — 7.3% Losses (Suppressed)*
Average of 15x BMPs/BTRs damaged, destroyed, abandoned and captured per day of the conflict

*2 Losses out of an estimated 300x Shturm-S ATGM Carriers — .6% Losses (No impact)*
*26 Losses out of an estimated 225x BAT-2s and 150x IMR-2s (Engineer Vehicles) — 6.9% Losses (Suppressed)*
*63 Losses out of an estimated 450x 152 mm 2S19 Msta and 450x BM-21 122mm MLRS (Field Artillery) — 7% Losses (Suppressed) *
*23 Losses out of an estimated 450x Pantsir-S1 (SAMs) — 5% Losses (Suppressed)*
*63 MT-LB out of an estimated 525x MT-LB ACRV (Command and Control) — 12% Losses (Neutralized)*
Average of 5x MT-LBs damaged, destroyed, abandoned and captured per day of the conflict

So what, right? Neither the crowd sourced BDA or the OoB is perfect. But it gives me, and hopefully you, a better understanding that the Russians’ tank and command and control (MT-LB) forces have suffered pretty significant losses. The rest of the BTGs have also taken a hit, especially the artillery. But, the Russian’s SAMs seem to be relatively intact, which means that the Ukrainian Air Force will continue to have a tough time attacking the Russian troops from the air.

Watch the *Oryx Website* in coming days to see if the Russian tanks, BMP/BTRs, and MT-LBs keep taking losses. For instance, I’m watching very closely to see if the Russians have 85 more tanks destroyed, abandoned, or captured (March 15 if they keep losing 12 tanks per day) as the conflict drags on. At that point in time, their invasion could grind to a halt with almost a third of their estimated tanks out of the fight.

https://www.thefivecoatconsultinggroup.com/the-coronavirus-crisis/perspective-ukraine


Good breakdown of Russian forces and their losses to date

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## thetutle

Avicenna said:


> Speak for yourself.


I do. Any I think the whole west agrees with me that Russia must lose here regardless of the consequences. He cant be appeased. If he wins he will keep rolling west and none of us will achieve security by giving him countries to swallow.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501205860919431179


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## Vergennes

Meanwhile the Russians are facing another enemy that isn't human... but natural. Read about the "rasputitsa". Things are going to get just worse for the russian army. By accepting to delay the invasion due to the olympic games in China at Xi Jinping's demand,Putin has launched the invasion too late... and the invasion isn't going at a fast path as hoped initially.

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## alimobin memon



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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501077774873808896

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## kursed

Slat roof or not, modern top attack ATGMs are running through Russian armor.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501211234925953029

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## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> The 21st century has been full of conflict. From Kosovo, to the Horn of Africa, to Afghanistan, to Iraq, to Syria, and now Ukraine the battlefield keeps changing and evolving. Many of you have been following the events in Ukraine extremely closely. To help you make better sense of the situation in Ukraine, I’m going to introduce you to three military terms — Battalion Tactical Groups (BTGs), Order of Battle (OoB), and Crowd Sourced Battle Damage Assessments (BDA) — which will help deepen your understanding of the invasion. Along the way, you’ll also get a better grasp of one way that the US Army looks at measuring how the war is going.
> 
> *Battalion Tactical Group (BTGs)*
> 
> A Battalion Tactical Group, or BTG, is the primary combined-arms maneuver unit used by the Russian Army. In NATO militaries, this grouping would be called a Task Force. (I wrote an article about Task Forces (corporate people might call this a matrix’ed organization) last year). A typical BTG is comprised of one tank company, three infantry companies, one Anti-Tank (AT) missile company, one engineer company, two field artillery batteries, and one Surface to Air Missile (SAM) Battery. Each BTG has approximately 600 soldiers assigned to it.
> 
> BTGs formed the mainstay of Russia's military intervention in Ukraine from 2013–2015 and now in 2022. In other words, the BTGs are the “tip of the spear” for the conventional Russian military. As of August 2021, Russia had approximately 170 BTGs scattered across the country.
> 
> The diagram below depicts the organization of a typical BTG.
> 
> *BTG Sub Units:*
> 
> To further understand the BTG, let’s look at each subunit in detail. The subunits in a Battalion Tactical Group are BTG’s command and control, one tank company, three infantry companies, one Anti-Tank (AT) missile company, one engineer company, two field artillery batteries, and one Surface to Air Missile (SAM) Battery. A company or a battery is an organization of about 50-100 people.
> 
> BTG Command and Control: 3x MT-LB for the BTG commander and his staff.
> 
> _Total: 3x MT-LBs_
> 
> One Tank Company — A Russian Tank Company typically has 30 soldiers who man 10x T-72B3 tanks.
> 
> _Total: 10x T-72B3s _(-72, -80, -90)
> 
> Three Infantry Companies — A Russian Infantry Company typically has 50 soldiers who work out of 11x BMPs or BTR-80s Armored Personnel Carriers.
> 
> _Total: 33x BMPs (-1,-2,-3) or BTR-80s _
> 
> AT Company — A Russian Anti-Tank (AT) Missile Company typically has 4x BMP-3s type-vehicles armed with the AT-11 “Sniper” or AT-14 “Spriggan” Anti-Tank guided missiles (Shturm-S ATGM Carrier).
> 
> _Total: 4x BMP-3s w/ AT-14s (Shturm-S ATGM Carrier)_
> 
> One Engineer Company — Engineer Companies can be task organized to support proposed BTG missions. Most Engineer companies have 3x BAT-2 and 2x IMR-2
> 
> _Total: 3x BAT-2s and 2x IMR-2s_
> 
> Two Field Artillery Batteries — A Russian Field Artillery Battery typically has 6x 152mm self propelled howitzers (6x 2S19 Msta*) *and 2x MT-LBu ACRVs (commander and fire direction center). These weapons can fire XX distance. A Russian Multiple Launch Rocket System Battery typically has 6x 122mm BM-21 Grad rocket systems along with support trucks. These weapons can fire XX distance.
> 
> _Total: 6 x 152 mm 2S19 Msta + 2x MT-LB ACRV + 6x BM-21 122mm MLRS_
> 
> One Surface to Air Missile (SAM) or Air Defense Artillery (ADA) Battery — A Russian SAM Battery typically has 6x anti-aircraft systems in it. A Pantsir-S1 equipped battery has 6 trucks, each which has 2x 30mm cannons and 12 x 57E6-E Surface to Air Missiles.
> 
> _Total: 6x Pantsir-S1 + 2x MT-LB ACRV_
> 
> 
> *So, the total vehicles in a Prototypical BTG = 33x BMPs, 10x T-72s, 4x Shturm-S ATGM Carrier, 3x BAT-2s and 2x IMR-2s, 6 x 152 mm 2S19 Msta, 6x BM-21 122mm MLRS, 6x Pantsir-S1, and 7x MT-LB ACRV. There would be approximately 600 soldiers in the BTG.
> 
> Order of Battle*
> 
> The order of battle tries to depict the hierarchical organization, command structure, strength, disposition of personnel, and disposition of equipment of military units participating in a military operation. Corporate types would recognize this as an org chart. For the purpose of this blog post, I’m only going to focus on the Order of Battle/potential disposition of the Russian military equipment involved in the invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> The Institute for the Study of War is a Washington, DC based think-tank that has tracked wars for the past two decades. On January 25, 2022, ISW assessed that there were at least 66 BTGs postured around Ukraine.
> 
> I’m going to make the assumption that ISW didn’t get their picture exactly right and that Russia moved a few more units into the region to participate in the invasion from January 26 to February 23. If Russia invaded the Ukraine with 75x BTGs, there would be approximately:
> 
> 
> *750x T-72/80/90 Tanks*
> *2,475x BMPs/BTRs (Armored Personnel Carriers),*
> *300x Shturm-S ATGM Carriers*
> *225x BAT-2s and 150x IMR-2s (Engineer Vehicles)*
> *450 x 152 mm 2S19 Msta*
> *450x BM-21 122mm MLRS*
> *450x Pantsir-S1*
> *525x MT-LB ACRV *
> in the invasion force. There would also be about 45,000 troops in the BTG formations. The rest of the Russian invasion force (reported to be over 100,000+) is in the support forces.
> 
> *Crowd Sourcing Battle Damage Assessment*
> 
> The invasion of Ukraine began on February 24, 2022. Each day the conflict continues, both Russian and Ukraine forces lose vehicles from combat. These vehicles were destroyed, damaged, abandoned, or captured in battle. Battle Damage Assessment, or BDA, is “the estimate of damage composed of physical and functional damage assessment, as well as target system assessment, resulting from the application of lethal or nonlethal military force.” In the old days, the Battalion or Brigade Intelligence Officer had to collect reports from helicopter pilots, Air Force pilots, forward observers, and ground forces who engaged the enemy. Based on these reports, the Intelligence Officer would make an assessment of how badly the enemy had been damaged from the actions of friendly forces.
> 
> Stijn Mitzer, along with Joost Oliemans, Kemal Janovsky, Dan Janovsky, and Jakub Janovsky, have taken this idea into the 21st Century. The five people are attempting to crowd source battle damage assessments in real-time from both the Russian and Ukraine armed forces during the invasion of Ukraine on *The Oryx Website*. The team finds photos of destroyed, abandoned, and captured vehicles and then tries to count them based on the vehicle type. They also categories them based on the vehicle being destroyed, abandoned, or captured. The team does its best to make sure that they are not counting the same vehicle twice and are updating it daily. Check it our yourself — the link to their regularly updated article is here.
> 
> As of March 7, 2022 at 3:00 PM EST *the Oryx Website* assesses that the Russian forces have lost (the numbers had already changed before I finished writing the post):
> 
> 
> *140 Tanks* (T-72s, 80s, and 90s — 42 destroyed, 2 damaged, 26 abandoned, and 69 captured)
> *181 Armored Personnel Carriers* (BMPs or BTRs — 65 destroyed, 35 abandoned, and 81 captured)
> *2 Shtrum-S ATGM Carriers *(1 destroyed and 1 abandoned)
> *36 Engineering Vehicles* (including 1x BAT-2, 1x IMR-2)
> *63 Field Artillery pieces *(including 9x 2S19 Mstas and 16x 122mm BM-21 Grads)
> *23 SAM Systems* (including 4x Pantsir-S1s)
> *63 MT-LB *(17 destroyed, 12 abandoned, and 34 captured)
> *Advanced BDA:*
> 
> Just counting damaged, destroyed, and captured vehicles in Basic BDA. Taking the raw numbers and then assessing the impact on the invasion force is Advanced BDA. Advanced BDA helps military leaders understand the context and make better decisions.
> 
> The military uses three categories to measure the impact on enemy units: suppressed, neutralized, or destroyed. As you would expect, each of these terms has a military definition. *Suppress* is a tactical mission task that results in temporary degradation of the performance of a force or weapons system below the level needed to accomplish its mission. It is the lowest level and typically equates to 3% of a friendly or enemy unit’s equipment being destroyed, damaged, abandoned, or captured. *Neutralize* is a tactical mission task that results in rendering enemy personnel or materiel incapable of interfering with a particular operation. It is in the middle and usually equates to 10% of a friendly or enemy unit’s equipment being destroyed, damaged, abandoned, or captured. *Destroy* is a tactical mission task that physically renders an enemy force combat-ineffective until it is reconstituted. It is the highest level and usually equals to 30% of a friendly or enemy unit’s equipment being destroyed, damaged, abandoned, or captured.
> 
> Remember the order of battle of the invasion force? I will use the OoB numbers as our denominator, as I try to figure out if the Russians are suppressed (3%), neutralized (10%), or destroyed (30%) as part of the Advanced BDA process. This helps to provide context for the losses reported on the web. Based on the crowd-sourced losses on the *Oryx website* on March 7, 2022:
> 
> 
> *140 Losses out of an estimated 750x T-72/80/90s Tanks — 18.6% Losses (Neutralized)*
> Average of 12x tanks damaged, destroyed, abandoned and captured per day of the conflict
> 
> *181 Losses out of an estimated 2,475x BMPs/BTRs (Armored Personnel Carriers) — 7.3% Losses (Suppressed)*
> Average of 15x BMPs/BTRs damaged, destroyed, abandoned and captured per day of the conflict
> 
> *2 Losses out of an estimated 300x Shturm-S ATGM Carriers — .6% Losses (No impact)*
> *26 Losses out of an estimated 225x BAT-2s and 150x IMR-2s (Engineer Vehicles) — 6.9% Losses (Suppressed)*
> *63 Losses out of an estimated 450x 152 mm 2S19 Msta and 450x BM-21 122mm MLRS (Field Artillery) — 7% Losses (Suppressed) *
> *23 Losses out of an estimated 450x Pantsir-S1 (SAMs) — 5% Losses (Suppressed)*
> *63 MT-LB out of an estimated 525x MT-LB ACRV (Command and Control) — 12% Losses (Neutralized)*
> Average of 5x MT-LBs damaged, destroyed, abandoned and captured per day of the conflict
> 
> So what, right? Neither the crowd sourced BDA or the OoB is perfect. But it gives me, and hopefully you, a better understanding that the Russians’ tank and command and control (MT-LB) forces have suffered pretty significant losses. The rest of the BTGs have also taken a hit, especially the artillery. But, the Russian’s SAMs seem to be relatively intact, which means that the Ukrainian Air Force will continue to have a tough time attacking the Russian troops from the air.
> 
> Watch the *Oryx Website* in coming days to see if the Russian tanks, BMP/BTRs, and MT-LBs keep taking losses. For instance, I’m watching very closely to see if the Russians have 85 more tanks destroyed, abandoned, or captured (March 15 if they keep losing 12 tanks per day) as the conflict drags on. At that point in time, their invasion could grind to a halt with almost a third of their estimated tanks out of the fight.
> 
> https://www.thefivecoatconsultinggroup.com/the-coronavirus-crisis/perspective-ukraine
> 
> 
> Good breakdown of Russian forces and their losses to date


Amazing analysis, but dont Russians have 15,000 tanks. Cant they just replenish the BTG with more tanks and keep going?


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## Abid123

Dalit said:


> Forget the Ukraine Russia conflict for a moment. What I have enjoyed most is the hypocritical US/Western outrage against Pakistan for remaining neutral. At times it felt like the Americans and Europeans want to blame Pakistan for the entire fiasco. Just have a look at the insane amount of coverage given to Pakistan:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pak Official's UK Visit Cancelled Apparently Over Policy On Russia-Ukraine War: Report
> 
> 
> The UK government has unilaterally called off the scheduled visit of Pakistan's National Security Adviser Moeed Yusuf to London apparently because of Islamabad's policy towards Russia's military offensive against Ukraine, according to a media report
> 
> 
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> www.ndtv.com
> 
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> 
> 
> Western-Led Pressure Grows on Pakistan to Condemn Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine
> 
> 
> Islamabad has avoided criticizing the Russian assault on Ukraine and called on both sides to seek a negotiated settlement to the conflict
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.voanews.com
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan Walks Thin Line Between Russia, Ukraine
> 
> 
> Pakistan, a key non-NATO ally of US, abstained from voting on UN General Assembly's condemnation resolution against Russia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.voanews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan’s Prime Minister Takes on the West
> 
> 
> Imran’s Khan’s tirade against the U.S. comes at a time when he is facing serious political challenges at home.
> 
> 
> 
> thediplomat.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Are we your slaves?' Pakistan PM lashes out against EU
> 
> 
> Pakistani PM Imran Khan's comments were in response to foreign pressure pushing Islamabad to criticise Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> english.alaraby.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> US warns Pakistan of Ukraine war consequences
> 
> 
> FO objects to envoys’ letter issued earlier this week urging Islamabad to denounce Moscow’s actions.
> 
> 
> 
> www.dawn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan under western pressure to condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine
> 
> 
> The NATO, US, UK and the European Union (EU) are taking to global platforms like the UN General Assembly (UNGA) to gather global support in condemning Russia over its aggression in Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.business-standard.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why was Pakistan’s PM in Russia amid the Ukraine invasion?
> 
> 
> Prime Minister Imran Khan had little to gain and much to lose from backing out of his planned visit to Moscow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Podcast: US choices, global consequences: Hina Khar on India, Pakistan, Afghanistan & broken democracy
> 
> 
> Listen: As Russian forces invaded Ukraine, Pakistan's PM Imran Khan, one of Vladimir Putin’s few friends, visited Moscow. But his trip did not go down well in the US. With Washington ready to downgrade its relationship with Islamabad, Khan is looking to form new friendships to protect Pakistan's...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gzeromedia.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU Council president speaks with PM amid hiccup in ties | The Express Tribune
> 
> 
> Imran hopes for a diplomatic deal over Ukraine conflict
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tribune.com.pk


We stand with Russia.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501209093234638859

And here we go

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## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501205860919431179



The first vehicle that gets hit has 2 people walking towards it a mere 5 or 10 metres away? they seem to survive. Is it normal to survive in such close proximity?


----------



## Vergennes

kursed said:


> Slat roof or not, modern top attack ATGMs are running through Russian armor.
> 
> View attachment 821984



The Russians falsely believed those cages would protect them or at least limit the damages against missiles like Javelins while in reality those offer no tactical or protection advantages,only adding weight to the tanks. Probably something to improve the morale of russian tankists.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501208611497857026

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## thetutle

alimobin memon said:


> View attachment 821983


WW 2 start date is inaccurate


----------



## F-22Raptor

thetutle said:


> The first vehicle that gets hit has 2 people walking towards it a mere 5 or 10 metres away? they seem to survive. Is it normal to survive in such close proximity?




Hard to tell, but one of them dropped like a sack of potatoes on impact. He's likely dead.


----------



## Ashesh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501213025239453700


----------



## SIPRA

Abid123 said:


> We stand with Russia.



But, this thread is filled and overwhelmed by anti-Russia posters. Kuchh tau lagta hae, kay bilkul he faarigh haen, aur issi thread per baethay huye haen.

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## HaMoTZeMaS

alimobin memon said:


> View attachment 821983


so we need to develop an algorithm to locate all combinations of 68 in near future/ Bang we have list of possible conflicts dates


----------



## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> Hard to tell, but one of them dropped like a sack of potatoes on impact. He's likely dead.


The one further away dropped first. the first was left standing. Interesting.


----------



## Paul2

thetutle said:


> Well it means that the Americans have the ability to recognise the voice of the person on an unencrypted line out of al the 10's of thousands of call being made at the same time. Pretty impressive.



You don't get the idea. Now, Russia can only go through the pain of issuing encrypted radios to its top officers, and people in the command chain. They use very powerful, vehicle mounted radios, and everybody else uses Baofeng.

So, anybody using encrypted comms instantly stand out from unencrypted comms of the rest of the army, pointing to them being commanders, or a radio relay point.

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## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501209093234638859
> 
> And here we go


Politico is known to peddle false info. I doubt it will happen


----------



## Kraetoz

thetutle said:


> WW 2 start date is inaccurate


And what's the correct date? 🤔


----------



## Paul2

thetutle said:


> Amazing analysis, but dont Russians have 15,000 tanks. Cant they just replenish the BTG with more tanks and keep going?



They have T-54 - good, accurate gun, but will lose to T-72. No autoloader, and all trained loaders for T-54 are likely 60+ now.

T-54 cannot stand modern RPG hit to the front. It is patently ancient, very likely with most of its electronics dead due to aging of capacitors.

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## zartosht

interestingly, the Russians have yet to use their serious artillery. I have not seen any footage of tos-1 being used, or at least used in signficant quantities. These thermobaric weapons are literally the most effective weapons to use in such fighting conditions.

This tells you the Russian losses have been so minimal, that the top leadership hasnt even decided to bring the big guns out yet (literally). If these reports of 10s of thousands of Russians killed the western media is putting out were remotely true, then the russians would have started carpet bombing resistance areas long ago.

The Russians are making excellent steady progress. even with the gloves on.

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## Avicenna

thetutle said:


> I do. Any I think the whole west agrees with me that Russia must lose here regardless of the consequences. He cant be appeased. If he wins he will keep rolling west and none of us will achieve security by giving him countries to swallow.



There is no way Russia has any intentions beyond Ukraine.

Putin is an intelligent man.

He is quite aware that Russia CAN NOT take on NATO conventionally.

Ukraine was a core security issue for Russia which they have stated for quite some time.

It was the West that was pushing the conflict.

The Russian position is quite reasonable.

A neutral Ukraine.

A buffer so to speak.

Again, if Putin had the means to go Westward, then YES.

I would agree with you.

I am SURE he would love to bring back the Soviet Union territorially.

But he knows he can't.

And thus this is not his intention in regards to this intervention in Ukraine.

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## Primus

Paul2 said:


> They have T-54 - good, accurate gun, but will lose to T-72. No autoloader, and all trained loaders for T-54 are likely 60+ now.
> 
> T-54 cannot stand modern RPG hit to the front. It is patently ancient, very likely with most of its electronics dead due to aging of capacitors.


What what what what what what what what what what? 

Russia doesnt have any T54 or T55 im service. They only have t72, t80 and t90


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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501216489189294087


----------



## F-22Raptor

zartosht said:


> interestingly, the Russians have yet to use their serious artillery. I have not seen any footage of tos-1 being used, or at least used in signficant quantities. These thermobaric weapons are literally the most effective weapons to use in such fighting conditions.
> 
> This tells you the Russian losses have been so minimal, that the top leadership hasnt even decided to bring the big guns out yet (literally). If these reports of 10s of thousands of Russians killed the western media is putting out were remotely true, then the russians would have started carpet bombing resistance areas long ago.
> 
> The Russians are making excellent steady progress. even with the gloves on.




Russia has used all of its artillery capability outside of TOS-1. TOS-1 would only bring mass civilian casualties. 

Russia is now approaching 1,000 losses in 2 weeks.



zartosht said:


> interestingly, the Russians have yet to use their serious artillery. I have not seen any footage of tos-1 being used, or at least used in signficant quantities. These thermobaric weapons are literally the most effective weapons to use in such fighting conditions.
> 
> This tells you the Russian losses have been so minimal, that the top leadership hasnt even decided to bring the big guns out yet (literally). If these reports of 10s of thousands of Russians killed the western media is putting out were remotely true, then the russians would have started carpet bombing resistance areas long ago.
> 
> The Russians are making excellent steady progress. even with the gloves on.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501219414594707461

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501219656052400133
CIA director Burns

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## Paul2

Huffal said:


> What what what what what what what what what what?
> 
> Russia doesnt have any T54 or T55 im service. They only have t72, t80 and t90



They have T-54/55 not in service, but in storage in huge quantities.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501220102515179520

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## zartosht

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia has used all of its artillery capability outside of TOS-1. TOS-1 would only bring mass civilian casualties.
> 
> Russia is now approaching 1,000 losses in 2 weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501219414594707461
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501219656052400133
> CIA director Burns



These CIA twitter crap coming out of the US inteligence community has less than 0 value. you can continue spamming their propaganda, it does not change reality. 

and no, tos-1 will not equal mass civilian casualties. If the Ukies stopped using civilians as human shields, Those things can easily clear out areas of resistance. 

I think Russia has held back so far because of the psycological effect it would have on propaganda ("OMGGG EVIL RUSSIA VACUUM BOMBING BABIES" - western media)

but mostly because it hasnt had the operational need to. Despite what twitter tells you, the Russians have taken virtually any territory they seriously contested, have complete initiative in the war, And are systematically massing around and encircling large cities. The only chance the ukies have to hold the cities is to take human hostages, to prevent Russia from using their serious artillery. 

Thats why you are seeing these disgraceful nazis abusing civilians, not letting them go and using them as human shields. Its the only chance they have to fight Russia, hiding behind women and kids.

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## Meengla

Avicenna said:


> There is no way Russia has any intentions beyond Ukraine.
> 
> Putin is an intelligent man.
> 
> He is quite aware that Russia CAN NOT take on NATO conventionally.
> 
> Ukraine was a core security issue for Russia which they have stated for quite some time.
> 
> It was the West that was pushing the conflict.



You are probably correct and there ARE some voices even in the West which would agree with you.

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## thetutle

Paul2 said:


> You don't get the idea. Now, Russia can only go through the pain of issuing encrypted radios to its top officers, and people in the command chain. They use very powerful, vehicle mounted radios, and everybody else uses Baofeng.
> 
> So, anybody using encrypted comms instantly stand out from unencrypted comms of the rest of the army, pointing to them being commanders, or a radio relay point.


Yes but this general wasn't using that. Allegedly. He was using an unsecured line.


----------



## Primus

Paul2 said:


> They have T-54/55 not in service, but in storage in huge quantities.


They dont. They really dont. 

They have 7000 t72, 4000 t80 and about 200 t90 in storage/reserves. No other tanks are im reserves/stotage

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## Avicenna

Meengla said:


> You are probably correct and there ARE some voices even in the West which would agree with you.



What's going on is bordering on insanity.

Senseless killing of innocent people.

From our religious tradition a perfect example of those who spread corruption on earth.

OMG.

Read carefully.









Victoria Nuland - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





We be fooked.

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## thetutle

Kraetoz said:


> And what's the correct date? 🤔


There are many, do you consider the invasion of Poland or UK declaration of war? or USSR declaration or war? Or even Japanese invasion of China? 

These dates are just made up. Its whenever you want it to be.



Avicenna said:


> There is no way Russia has any intentions beyond Ukraine.
> 
> Putin is an intelligent man.
> 
> He is quite aware that Russia CAN NOT take on NATO conventionally.
> 
> Ukraine was a core security issue for Russia which they have stated for quite some time.
> 
> It was the West that was pushing the conflict.
> 
> The Russian position is quite reasonable.
> 
> A neutral Ukraine.
> 
> A buffer so to speak.
> 
> Again, if Putin had the means to go Westward, then YES.
> 
> I would agree with you.
> 
> I am SURE he would love to bring back the Soviet Union territorially.
> 
> But he knows he can't.
> 
> And thus this is not his intention in regards to this intervention in Ukraine.


I'm afraid you dont know Russia well enough. 

And he is not an intelligent many anymore since he just made a decision which will without any shadow of doubt destroy Russia. Either through Nuclear war, or civil war. Most likely civil war.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501223646198702081

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## Avicenna

thetutle said:


> There are many, do you consider the invasion of Poland or UK declaration of war? or USSR declaration or war? Or even Japanese invasion of China?
> 
> These dates are just made up. Its whenever you want it to be.
> 
> 
> I'm afraid you dont know Russia well enough.
> 
> And he is not an intelligent many anymore since he just made a decision which will without any shadow of doubt destroy Russia. Either through Nuclear war, or civil war. Most likely civil war.



Ok chief.


----------



## Kraetoz

thetutle said:


> These dates are just made up. Its whenever you want it to be.


But there would be one mutually agreed start date? That we read in history books? 

Surely ww2 start date isn't *1 september 2015* just because i want it to be?


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## alimobin memon

thetutle said:


> WW 2 start date is inaccurate


There is no one date


----------



## sur

Can it be considered a gradual acceptance of Russian requests? A softening. Probably as a consequence of the negotiations!

"Less passionate to join NATO" (One of Rus demands)
"Denied that it plans to retake Donbas" (Second of Rus demands)
Zelensky ‘less passionate’ about Ukraine joining NATO​“I’ve become less passionate about this issue *after we understood that NATO isn’t ready to accept Ukraine*. The alliance is afraid of controversial things and a confrontation with Russia,” Zelensky said. . . . confirmed that he was ready for direct negotiations with his Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin. . . . *Russia demands that Ukraine officially declare itself a neutral* country that will never join NATO. . . . * Kiev denied claims that it was planning to retake the rebellious republics by force*.




F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501223646198702081



CIA said twice that *Rus is going to double down*.
i.e. CIA is foreseeing a more stronger push coming from Rus. Which is in-line with a military analyst that Rus/USSR had a habit of *phase#1* of sending worst equipment/personnel followed by* phase#2*.

Rest was hokus pokus for public consumption. e.g. we have not seen any tangible effects of sanctions on Rus yet, other than a graph of RUB vs USD which until translated into tangible effects could just mean *more remittances from Russians*. So CIA made *a false claim that Putin has been proven wrong* about financial aspect. Nothing has been proven yet on sanctions front, they are still waiting to see (link). Hence CIA's other claim that Putin will not be able to sustain automatically nullifies. *The ONLY thing that's proven is* West is paying a lot more for fuel and metals and airline costs.

CIA makes another false claim that Putin's estimate about _Urk resistance_ is proven wrong. Because it's Urk+almost whole of NATO/EU countries, not just Urk. So the statement is factually incorrect.

As for the claim of 2000-4000 Rusi deaths, they admitted "*with low confidence*" reports. *i.e. possibly just self-appeasing guesses*.


Examples of the only proven effects of sanctions:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7

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## Ashesh

Hope they are true to their words & Sanction China. This can lead to dethrone $$$ as the currency to trade. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501226556802232325


----------



## F-22Raptor

zartosht said:


> These CIA twitter crap coming out of the US inteligence community has less than 0 value. you can continue spamming their propaganda, it does not change reality.
> 
> and no, tos-1 will not equal mass civilian casualties. If the Ukies stopped using civilians as human shields, Those things can easily clear out areas of resistance.
> 
> I think Russia has held back so far because of the psycological effect it would have on propaganda ("OMGGG EVIL RUSSIA VACUUM BOMBING BABIES" - western media)
> 
> but mostly because it hasnt had the operational need to. Despite what twitter tells you, the Russians have taken virtually any territory they seriously contested, have complete initiative in the war, And are systematically massing around and encircling large cities. The only chance the ukies have to hold the cities is to take human hostages, to prevent Russia from using their serious artillery.
> 
> Thats why you are seeing these disgraceful nazis abusing civilians, not letting them go and using them as human shields. Its the only chance they have to fight Russia, hiding behind women and kids.




As the CIA Director said the video below, the Russian military has been "largely ineffective" in the war to date. And the 2000-4000 Russians killed is from the DIA director below. 

Your just a keyboard warrior on PDF. You have no credibility whatsoever


----------



## thetutle

Kraetoz said:


> But there would be one mutually agreed start date? That we read in history books?
> 
> Surely ww2 start date isn't *1 september 2015* just because i want it to be?


Well its not in 2015 thats for sure. 

But interestingly, Japan and Russia have still not ended WW2 amongst themselves. There is no peace treaty and Russia still holds Japanese territory.


----------



## Kraetoz

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501135277859000320
Zelenskyy trusted the back stabbers. Glad that Pakistan doesn't trust the west or US anymore. The reason why India choose to be neutral in this conflict too.

Yankees strategy was plain and simple from the start, they will fight Russia till the last Ukrainian.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501218815572684806

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## coffee_cup

Meanwhile Volkswagen stops taking any more orders for its hybrid cars. There are massive problems due to sanctions and materials required are not available. 

Car industry or other industry in general is in big trouble. Hope this war comes to a quick end!


----------



## AZMwi

Ashesh said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501214497847054341


so the bi product of the west is now going home to save europe

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## Lehrasap

Kraetoz said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501135277859000320
> Zelenskyy trusted the back stabbers. Glad that Pakistan doesn't trust the west or US anymore. The reason why India choose to be neutral in this conflict too.
> 
> Yankees strategy was plain and simple from the start, they will fight Russia till the last Ukrainian.



Please stop coming up with your Conspiracy Theories . 

It is not the CIA, but the western people too who don't want a war with Russia at this stage. 

As a Pakistani, could you tell me India usurped the Kashmir, and Pakistani leaders and Army were giving only the speeches against India, but practically did nothing to stop the Indian invasion. 

It is a reality that Pakistani people don't want a war with India on the issue of occupied Kashmir at this particular moment. 

This is exactly the same with Western people too. They don't want a war with Russia at this particular moment. 

But unfortunately, people have always a lot of Conspiracy Theories in their minds and no one could stop them.

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## zartosht

F-22Raptor said:


> I As the CIA Director said the video below, the Russian military has been "largely ineffective" in the war to date. And the 2000-4000 Russians killed is from the DIA director below.
> 
> Your just a keyboard warrior on PDF. You have no credibility whatsoever



Because whatever the CIA sais is the truth? thats why their words are all thats needed as proof ?

and I dont remember using myself as a source for anything... so i dont know how your last 'keyboard warrior' comment is even relevant to anything... But do go on, the official retweeter of state department/intelligence propaganda.

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## dBSPL

Ashesh said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501214497847054341


HTS is a terrorist organization. However, even the sins of HTS remain light compared to the Wagner terrorist organization, which has killed thousands of civilians, including acts of terrorism and fueling civil war in 6-7 different countries of the world. People are still dying in Tripoli from the traps and mines left by Wagner.

There is no doubt that the Russian propaganda tools have learned very well to instrumentalize this Islamic terrorism. The last time they were in Kazakhstan, so they went to Ukraine from there. After all, this could not be a post-truth method that could only be monopolized by the USA.

Honestly, that's not the part I'm interested in. Because both sides are trying to use their propaganda tools and their powers of persuading societies to the fullest in order to establish an ethical basis for themselves. So understandable.

The interesting detail is: The photo selection of the relevant Russian information unit and even your reason for sharing this tweet, but at the same time, I think most people understand why. Let me make two reminders though: HTS dont uses the Turkish patch on camouflage. The news itself is a typical Russian propaganda and the photograph used is even irrelevant to this propagative claim.

Such a thing would never be allowed. HTS is a terrorist organization according to Turkish law. Many wanted members and managers of this terrorist organization were caught by Turkish law enforcement, and there is a search and arrest record for others. The reasons why Turkey does not directly fight HTS in Idlib is related to the situation of millions of Syrians pushed to the Hatay border by the Assad regime. These are a separate story, and if anyone wishes, we can discuss these issues in the related thread.

The second reason is Russia's direct protection of the PKK, which threatens Turkey, especially in Tel Rifat and Manbij, north of Aleppo. While Russia protects a terrorist organization that threatens Turkey, it cannot be among Turkey's priorities that it consumes its human and financial resources against another terrorist organization that does not threaten it.

We all know very well why the Russian propaganda tools are so uncomfortable. But if they can rein in their arrogance and understand how Turkey is trying to hold on to a neutral position, they will go a long way. And again, reminder, there are no Turkish drones flying in Ukraine.

In any case, I will report this 'purposed' post and I will follow what the decision will be. If even such low-level psyops are allowed now, I assure the entire pals in advance I will literally flood the thread with similar style.

@waz @RescueRanger @LeGenD

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
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## Kraetoz

Lehrasap said:


> As a Pakistani, could you tell me India usurped the Kashmir, and Pakistani leaders and Army were giving only the speeches against India, but practically did nothing to stop the Indian invasion.


Indian Invasion in Indian occupied Kashmir? That doesn't count as Invasion of Pakistan territory. Do you really have any idea what happened when India actually invaded/breached LOC? They were forced to turn back in their tracks all the while dropping payloads on trees and crows.

Abhinandan got a bloody nose when he breached LOC too. Pakistan Army dominated the escalation ladder and tamed them down. India can't dare to Invade Pakistan because we are ready to defend every inch of it.


----------



## Paul2

dBSPL said:


> HTS is a terrorist organization. However, even the sins of HTS remain light compared to the Wagner terrorist organization, which has killed thousands of civilians, including acts of terrorism and fueling civil war in 6-7 different countries of the world. People are still dying in Tripoli from the traps and mines left by Wagner.
> 
> There is no doubt that the Russian propaganda tools have learned very well to instrumentalize this Islamic terrorism. The last time they were in Kazakhstan, so they went to Ukraine from there. After all, this could not be a post-truth method that could only be monopolized by the USA.
> 
> Honestly, that's not the part I'm interested in. Because both sides are trying to use their propaganda tools and their powers of persuading societies to the fullest in order to establish an ethical basis for themselves. So understandable.
> 
> The interesting detail is: The photo selection of the relevant Russian information unit and even your reason for sharing this tweet, but at the same time, I think most people understand why. Let me make two reminders though: HTS dont uses the Turkish patch on camouflage. The news itself is a typical Russian propaganda and the photograph used is even irrelevant to this propagative claim.
> 
> Such a thing would never be allowed. HTS is a terrorist organization according to Turkish law. Many wanted members and managers of this terrorist organization were caught by Turkish law enforcement, and there is a search and arrest record for others. The reasons why Turkey does not directly fight HTS in Idlib is related to the situation of millions of Syrians pushed to the Hatay border by the Assad regime. These are a separate story, and if anyone wishes, we can discuss these issues in the related thread.
> 
> The second reason is Russia's direct protection of the PKK, which threatens Turkey, especially in Tel Rifat and Manbij, north of Aleppo. While Russia protects a terrorist organization that threatens Turkey, it cannot be among Turkey's priorities that it consumes its human and financial resources against another terrorist organization that does not threaten it.
> 
> We all know very well why the Russian propaganda tools are so uncomfortable. But if they can rein in their arrogance and understand how Turkey is trying to hold on to a neutral position, they will go a long way. And again, reminder, there are no Turkish drones flying in Ukraine.
> 
> In any case, I will report this 'purposed' post and I will follow what the decision will be. If even such low-level psyops are allowed now, I assure the entire pals in advance I will literally flood the thread with similar style.
> 
> @waz @RescueRanger @LeGenD



By the way, it's Turkey's once in a decade opportunity to smack good whomever it wants to smack in Syria now.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Kraetoz said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501135277859000320
> Zelenskyy trusted the back stabbers. Glad that Pakistan doesn't trust the west or US anymore. The reason why India choose to be neutral in this conflict too.
> 
> Yankees strategy was plain and simple from the start, they will fight Russia till the last Ukrainian.



His bashing the west for cowardice

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501231117739126785


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501029874491875334


Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501231117739126785


This may be related to the claim that 30 aircrafts were destroyed in Kherson. They were likely referring to rotary aircrafts


----------



## 313ghazi

Lehrasap said:


> Please stop coming up with your Conspiracy Theories .
> 
> It is not the CIA, but the western people too who don't want a war with Russia at this stage.
> 
> As a Pakistani, could you tell me India usurped the Kashmir, and Pakistani leaders and Army were giving only the speeches against India, but practically did nothing to stop the Indian invasion.
> 
> It is a reality that Pakistani people don't want a war with India on the issue of occupied Kashmir at this particular moment.
> 
> This is exactly the same with Western people too. They don't want a war with Russia at this particular moment.
> 
> But unfortunately, people have always a lot of Conspiracy Theories in their minds and no one could stop them.



Actually when India invaded Kashmir in 1947 Pakistani tribals as well as the army fought back and recaptured the area today known as Azad Kashmir. 

In August 2019 when article 370 (which gave occupied Kashmir a special status in the Indian constitution) was revoked, the only difference was the change in the legal status of Kashmir in Indian law. The occupation has been ongoing since 1947.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501218269734359041

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501028230718967817


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501234713662525447


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501233820850339847
lmao

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501231995526934528

Reactions: Like Like:
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## dBSPL

Paul2 said:


> By the way, it's Turkey's once in a decade opportunity to smack good whomever it wants to smack in Syria now.


Although Turkey and Russia express different political aims in Syria in some extent, there is one issue they agree on, the integrity of Syrian territory. If Turkey gets into a deep conflict with Russia, it will be a bonus for other factors, especially the US, who want to create a state in eastern Syria.

Neither Karabakh, nor Libya, nor Syria... Even though Russia is trying to completely invade Turkey's close friend Ukraine, effective coordination in all other regions continues at full speed. Why should we lose Russia? We ask the same question for other 'demonized'(by some other) countries... For example, why should we lose Iran?

Unless there is a last-minute provocation, we will bring together the foreign ministers of Ukraine and Russia in a trio format at the Antalya Diplomacy Forum on March 10.

Now, in response to your question, my counter-question is: Isn't it more appropriate for Turkish interests to trying to open a dialogue channel that will discourage Ukraine and Russia from this pointless fighting?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501235805645426699

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## kingQamaR

A Russian general has been killed in fighting around Kharkiv , general Vitaly Gerasimov?


----------



## Maarkhoor

Ashesh said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501214497847054341


This proves they are on US payroll.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501237463712419846

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## jamal18

Scott Ritter, very good. About 40 minutes.

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## kingQamaR

Wait till Putin emulates Stalin and executes all his generals.

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## Paul2

dBSPL said:


> Although Turkey and Russia express different political aims in Syria in some extent, there is one issue they agree on, the integrity of Syrian territory. If Turkey gets into a deep conflict with Russia, it will be a bonus for other factors, especially the US, who want to create a state in eastern Syria.
> 
> Neither Karabakh, nor Libya, nor Syria... Even though Russia is trying to completely invade Turkey's close friend Ukraine, effective coordination in all other regions continues at full speed. Why should we lose Russia? We ask the same question for other 'demonized'(by some other) countries... For example, why should we lose Iran?
> 
> Unless there is a last-minute provocation, we will bring together the foreign ministers of Ukraine and Russia in a trio format at the Antalya Diplomacy Forum on March 10.
> 
> Now, in response to your question, my counter-question is: Isn't it more appropriate for Turkish interests to trying to open a dialogue channel that will discourage Ukraine and Russia from this pointless fighting?



Minus Russia also means minus Iran, and minus Baathists, and minus Greece, and minus Balkans, and minua Armenia.

If you look at the map, the other country being surrounded by Russian deployments, other than Ukraine, is Turkey.

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## Vergennes

kingQamaR said:


> Wait till Putin emulates Stalin and executes all his generals.



He's already sending them on the frontline in Ukraine.


----------



## jamahir

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501235805645426699



Look which country's president is calling someone else to be on a murderous path.


----------



## kingQamaR

Vergennes said:


> He's already sending them on the frontline in Ukraine.



A cornered animal is at its most dangerous

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501241385936109578

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501241385936109578



Funny though how majority Russian speaking towns are resisting so hard against the Russian army while many expected them to fall quickly one by one and to rally the Russian cause..... 

At the same time,while the Russian troops expected to be welcomed as liberators in the Russian-speaking areas, it has to face the hostility of the Ukrainians.

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501231995526934528


I wonder if it is abandoned, or taken during battle.

If they took it, it means they got into Russian rear.

152mm SPG will never be deployed on the frontline unless in desperation.


----------



## coffee_cup

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501235805645426699


Seems like reality has started to dawn on those who sit in the power corridors. 

Whereas fanboys continue dismissing Russia as already gone and destroyed country.

Well ... Zelensky knows no body is coming to help him. It would be best to talk to Russia and get a deal.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> Funny though how majority Russian speaking towns are resisting so hard against the Russian army while many expected them to fall quickly one by one and to rally the Russian cause.....
> 
> At the same time,while the Russian troops expected to be welcomed as liberators in the Russian-speaking areas, it has to face the hostility of the Ukrainians.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501224356973666310

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501224535940550661

From the US Director of National Intelligence.

Putin has gotten himself into a quagmire because he believes its a war he can't lose. The reality is that he doesn't have the forces to occupy Ukraine. He's already being defeated..

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## dBSPL

Paul2 said:


> Minus Russia also means minus Iran, and minus Baathists, and minus Greece, and minus Balkans, and minua Armenia.
> 
> If you look at the map, the other country being surrounded by Russian deployments, other than Ukraine, is Turkey.


If Russia suffers a heavy defeat from the process of the Ukraine war, it may draw a similar picture as how the US military presence begins to encircle Turkey. An army is being established in eastern Syria with the help of tens of thousands of trucks of military equipment and heavy weapons, and on the other hand, there is a noteworthy US structring in our west, which I shared this in detail in a seperate thread.

Therefore, this entire geopolitical structure requires Turkey to carry out its national security policies on a delicate balance. If we summarize this through the Ukraine issue, which is our subject; Russia should not completely patronize the region or become untrustable empire again, but the weakening of the USA in the region should continue.


----------



## jamahir

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501241385936109578



Right, Ukranian military fires rockets from within cities and when the Russians respond the NATO-affiliated media and Zelensky government scream that Russia has been killing civilians by firing into buildings.

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> HTS is a terrorist organization. However, even the sins of HTS remain light compared to the Wagner terrorist organization, which has killed thousands of civilians, including acts of terrorism and fueling civil war in 6-7 different countries of the world. People are still dying in Tripoli from the traps and mines left by Wagner.
> 
> There is no doubt that the Russian propaganda tools have learned very well to instrumentalize this Islamic terrorism. The last time they were in Kazakhstan, so they went to Ukraine from there. After all, this could not be a post-truth method that could only be monopolized by the USA.
> 
> Honestly, that's not the part I'm interested in. Because both sides are trying to use their propaganda tools and their powers of persuading societies to the fullest in order to establish an ethical basis for themselves. So understandable.
> 
> The interesting detail is: The photo selection of the relevant Russian information unit and even your reason for sharing this tweet, but at the same time, I think most people understand why. Let me make two reminders though: HTS dont uses the Turkish patch on camouflage. The news itself is a typical Russian propaganda and the photograph used is even irrelevant to this propagative claim.
> 
> Such a thing would never be allowed. HTS is a terrorist organization according to Turkish law. Many wanted members and managers of this terrorist organization were caught by Turkish law enforcement, and there is a search and arrest record for others. The reasons why Turkey does not directly fight HTS in Idlib is related to the situation of millions of Syrians pushed to the Hatay border by the Assad regime. These are a separate story, and if anyone wishes, we can discuss these issues in the related thread.
> 
> The second reason is Russia's direct protection of the PKK, which threatens Turkey, especially in Tel Rifat and Manbij, north of Aleppo. While Russia protects a terrorist organization that threatens Turkey, it cannot be among Turkey's priorities that it consumes its human and financial resources against another terrorist organization that does not threaten it.
> 
> We all know very well why the Russian propaganda tools are so uncomfortable. But if they can rein in their arrogance and understand how Turkey is trying to hold on to a neutral position, they will go a long way. And again, reminder, there are no Turkish drones flying in Ukraine.
> 
> In any case, I will report this 'purposed' post and I will follow what the decision will be. If even such low-level psyops are allowed now, I assure the entire pals in advance I will literally flood the thread with similar style.
> 
> @waz @RescueRanger @LeGenD


I fully agree and support your protest could perhaps mods @LeGenD look at this tweet that has been shared by the original poster who @dBSPL is rebuking:

Al Mayadeen is a well known mouthpiece for Hazbollah, The Iranians and the Syrian regimes so it’s a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501240215133999105

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501240812096655364

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501242060778655746


----------



## kingQamaR

Shame on those Chechnya who fight for putin in Ukraine, For money 

Russian Major General Vitaly Gerasimov, the butcher of Chachnya and chief of staff and first deputy commander of the 41st Army of the Central Military District of Russia, has been liquidated by Ukrainian forces near Kharkiv.

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## sur

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501028230718967817


What does he mean by "I am working on"! who is he?


Sudden surge in *CIPS-o-phobic* posts a day after China announced a "*rock* solid" friendship with Rus is obvious sign of pant-pissing scare among US sections.

They are trying to deter other countries from waking up to this idea of drifting towards alternate payment systems.

Turkey may use ruble for Russia trade​. . . Turkish TV channel A Haber reported on Monday, quoting President Recep Tayyip Erdogan. . . .

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## RescueRanger

coffee_cup said:


> Meanwhile Volkswagen stops taking any more orders for its hybrid cars. There are massive problems due to sanctions and materials required are not available.
> 
> Car industry or other industry in general is in big trouble. Hope this war comes to a quick end!


This may have something to do with that decision:









LME forced to halt nickel trading, cancel deals, after prices top $100,000


The London Metal Exchange (LME) was forced to halt nickel trading and cancel trades after prices doubled on Tuesday to more than $100,000 per tonne in a surge sources blamed on short covering by one of the world's top producers.




www.reuters.com













sur said:


> What does he mean by "I am working on"! who is he?
> 
> 
> Sudden surge in *CIPS-o-phobic* posts a day after China announced a "*rock* solid" friendship with Rus is obvious sign of pant-pissing scare among US sections.
> 
> They are trying to deter other countries from waking up to this idea of drifting towards alternate payment systems.


Marco Rubio is mentally deranged - even Americans don’t take him serious as neither should anyone else.

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## Wood

sur said:


> What does he mean by "I am working on"! who is he?
> 
> 
> Sudden surge in *CIPS-o-phobic* posts a day after China announced a "*rock* solid" friendship with Rus is obvious sign of pant-pissing scare among US sections.
> 
> They are trying to deter other countries from waking up to this idea of drifting towards alternate payment systems.


He is a US senator. To work on this is his day job 






The tragedy of urban warfare.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501244677974069253
At this rate, Russia will lose 1/3 of its forces by the end of May.

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## Mrc

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501244677974069253
> At this rate, Russia will lose 1/3 of its forces by the end of May.




By end of may what will b left of kiev?

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## coffee_cup

Is Europe moving to absolute dictatorship?

There is an official complaint about Ex-Chancelor Gerhard Schröder of Germany which could land him in the Jail. Why? Because he has not criticized Putin yet! 

The violoation of Human Rights, Democracy and Freedom of Speech must stop!

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## Iñigo

This war

At night I saw the images of a flare, an illuminating shell, slowly descending, an illuminating shell launched by the Russian army.

The next day the press, radio and televisions were repeating all day long "Putin attacks a nuclear power plant". And the funny thing is that the images of the illuminating projectile descending were played over and over again.

And so on


----------



## dBSPL

Mrc said:


> By end of may what will b left of kiev?


There probably won't be much left.


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501244677974069253
> At this rate, Russia will lose 1/3 of its forces by the end of May.


The resistance will loose steam over time. While NATO will keep them equipped, I think that the food, water and other supplies may become a problem. Of course, the Russians will also have similar issues.

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## FuturePAF

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501175649796509699
> 
> Fresh shipment of anti tank missiles


Where are the french, didn’t they promise the Ukrainians some ATGMs?


----------



## coffee_cup

RescueRanger said:


> This may have something to do with that decision:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LME forced to halt nickel trading, cancel deals, after prices top $100,000
> 
> 
> The London Metal Exchange (LME) was forced to halt nickel trading and cancel trades after prices doubled on Tuesday to more than $100,000 per tonne in a surge sources blamed on short covering by one of the world's top producers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 822017
> 
> 
> 
> Marco Rubio is mentally deranged - even Americans don’t take him serious as neither should anyone else.



Yep. And also Palladium and other metal prices are going through the roof!

But the prices of Nickel ...

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## FuturePAF

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501244677974069253
> At this rate, Russia will lose 1/3 of its forces by the end of May.


If it reaches 50% Russian military will be combat ineffective the way Iraq was in the first gulf war.

Although, the Russians will probably start using more force long before that. I’m surprised they haven’t taken out the Kiev government buildings. Seems like they are still focused on regime change.

Russia has General Winter, but Ukraine seems to have General Spring Thaw.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501244288969105412

Russian forces still 40 miles outside Kiev.


----------



## Wood




----------



## Flight of falcon

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501244288969105412
> 
> Russian forces still 40 miles outside Kiev.




Wow they are moving backwards because they were 16 miles earlier …..

But I guess in Twitter world one does not need a brain to make a point

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501244687289667586


FuturePAF said:


> If it reaches 50% Russian military will be combat ineffective the way Iraq was in the first gulf war.
> 
> Although, the Russians will probably start using more force long before that. I’m surprised they haven’t taken out the Kiev government buildings. Seems like they are still focused on regime change.
> 
> Russia has General Winter, but Ukraine seems to have General Spring Thaw.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501250051452067843


----------



## LeGenD

jamahir said:


> Why did you report ? Are you denying that HTS / Syrian Al Qaeda is in Ukraine to fight alongside Zelensky's NATO Nazis ? And Erdogan and his government / military / intelligence are part reason in the destruction of Syria and murder of Syrians and the only source of the chemical attack in Syria in 2014 was Erdogan's people. Also, *you* have been already flooding the thread with NATO propaganda along with Vergennes, Messerschmitt and @F-22Raptor.


You need to provide evidence of this.


----------



## RescueRanger

Folks if we can stop the Twitter spam for a moment and just have some reasonable analysis or opinion on Ukraines latest offer for negotiation with Russia and agreeing to key terms set by Russia in return of legal guarantees that its security will be protected in light of no assistance from NATO et Al.









Ukraine news live: US changes military posture in Europe over Russia threat - Biden to send new F-35 squadrons


Ukraine latest as Volodymyr Zelenskyy released footage of the shopping centre bombing in which 18 people died; Boris Johnson claims the war in Ukraine would never have started if Vladimir Putin was a woman; Joe Biden changes the US's military posture in Europe over the Russia threat.




news.sky.com

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## Iñigo

Kay-Achim Schönbach - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





Sorry to repeat myself, but ... 

Gentlemen, let us stand for a minute of silence in memory of the last free German.

European slavery is now complete, let us recognize the delusional power of the Anglo-Master.

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## Messerschmitt

dBSPL said:


> HTS is a terrorist organization. However, even the sins of HTS remain light compared to the Wagner terrorist organization, which has killed thousands of civilians, including acts of terrorism and fueling civil war in 6-7 different countries of the world. People are still dying in Tripoli from the traps and mines left by Wagner.
> 
> There is no doubt that the Russian propaganda tools have learned very well to instrumentalize this Islamic terrorism. The last time they were in Kazakhstan, so they went to Ukraine from there. After all, this could not be a post-truth method that could only be monopolized by the USA.
> 
> Honestly, that's not the part I'm interested in. Because both sides are trying to use their propaganda tools and their powers of persuading societies to the fullest in order to establish an ethical basis for themselves. So understandable.
> 
> The interesting detail is: The photo selection of the relevant Russian information unit and even your reason for sharing this tweet, but at the same time, I think most people understand why. Let me make two reminders though: HTS dont uses the Turkish patch on camouflage. The news itself is a typical Russian propaganda and the photograph used is even irrelevant to this propagative claim.
> 
> Such a thing would never be allowed. HTS is a terrorist organization according to Turkish law. Many wanted members and managers of this terrorist organization were caught by Turkish law enforcement, and there is a search and arrest record for others. The reasons why Turkey does not directly fight HTS in Idlib is related to the situation of millions of Syrians pushed to the Hatay border by the Assad regime. These are a separate story, and if anyone wishes, we can discuss these issues in the related thread.
> 
> The second reason is Russia's direct protection of the PKK, which threatens Turkey, especially in Tel Rifat and Manbij, north of Aleppo. While Russia protects a terrorist organization that threatens Turkey, it cannot be among Turkey's priorities that it consumes its human and financial resources against another terrorist organization that does not threaten it.
> 
> We all know very well why the Russian propaganda tools are so uncomfortable. But if they can rein in their arrogance and understand how Turkey is trying to hold on to a neutral position, they will go a long way. And again, reminder, there are no Turkish drones flying in Ukraine.
> 
> In any case, I will report this 'purposed' post and I will follow what the decision will be. If even such low-level psyops are allowed now, I assure the entire pals in advance I will literally flood the thread with similar style.
> 
> @waz @RescueRanger @LeGenD


The source for these claims in the article are "sources", not to mention that the article is written by pro-Hezbollah "Al Mayadeen" which is dubious to say the least.

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## FuturePAF

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501244288969105412
> 
> Russian forces still 40 miles outside Kiev.


Kyiv Is probably about to be leveled in a massive artillery barrage over the course of the next few days. The world didn’t stop the Russians in Grozny and Allepo, and now this has come to Kyiv.


----------



## RescueRanger

coffee_cup said:


> Yep. And also Palladium and other metal prices are going through the roof!
> 
> But the prices of Nickel ...


Aur lo panga. I’m watching this quietly now, also just a word to the wise - if you know someone selling rubles buy some while they are cheap. #justsaying

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501240215133999105
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501240812096655364
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501242060778655746



Ukraine must be ready to destroy Hostomel airport - it must never be allowed to fall into Russian hands - or Ukraines problems will start to multiply.


----------



## kingQamaR

Wood said:


> The resistance will loose steam over time. While NATO will keep them equipped, I think that the food, water and other supplies may become a problem. Of course, the Russians will also have similar issues.



He's running out or soldiers, support, money, weapons, logistics, the world has turned against him,

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## monitor

Ukraine says it is no longer insisting on joining NATO — AFP

Ukraine says it is no longer insisting on joining NATO — AFP

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## LeGenD

dBSPL said:


> HTS is a terrorist organization. However, even the sins of HTS remain light compared to the Wagner terrorist organization, which has killed thousands of civilians, including acts of terrorism and fueling civil war in 6-7 different countries of the world. People are still dying in Tripoli from the traps and mines left by Wagner.
> 
> There is no doubt that the Russian propaganda tools have learned very well to instrumentalize this Islamic terrorism. The last time they were in Kazakhstan, so they went to Ukraine from there. After all, this could not be a post-truth method that could only be monopolized by the USA.
> 
> Honestly, that's not the part I'm interested in. Because both sides are trying to use their propaganda tools and their powers of persuading societies to the fullest in order to establish an ethical basis for themselves. So understandable.
> 
> The interesting detail is: The photo selection of the relevant Russian information unit and even your reason for sharing this tweet, but at the same time, I think most people understand why. Let me make two reminders though: HTS dont uses the Turkish patch on camouflage. The news itself is a typical Russian propaganda and the photograph used is even irrelevant to this propagative claim.
> 
> Such a thing would never be allowed. HTS is a terrorist organization according to Turkish law. Many wanted members and managers of this terrorist organization were caught by Turkish law enforcement, and there is a search and arrest record for others. The reasons why Turkey does not directly fight HTS in Idlib is related to the situation of millions of Syrians pushed to the Hatay border by the Assad regime. These are a separate story, and if anyone wishes, we can discuss these issues in the related thread.
> 
> The second reason is Russia's direct protection of the PKK, which threatens Turkey, especially in Tel Rifat and Manbij, north of Aleppo. While Russia protects a terrorist organization that threatens Turkey, it cannot be among Turkey's priorities that it consumes its human and financial resources against another terrorist organization that does not threaten it.
> 
> We all know very well why the Russian propaganda tools are so uncomfortable. But if they can rein in their arrogance and understand how Turkey is trying to hold on to a neutral position, they will go a long way. And again, reminder, there are no Turkish drones flying in Ukraine.
> 
> In any case, I will report this 'purposed' post and I will follow what the decision will be. If even such low-level psyops are allowed now, I assure the entire pals in advance I will literally flood the thread with similar style.
> 
> @waz @RescueRanger @LeGenD


Thanks for your input. I have removed that post.

Some members are posting any tweet that they find interesting without fact-checking them. This is how disinformation starts to creep in and narratives take shape.

There were attempts to blanket-brand Ukranians as Nazi in this thread before. Now Al-Qaeda affiliates? Not funny.

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## RescueRanger

Flight of falcon said:


> View attachment 822024


That’s been proven to be fake. Please delete this post.

- Update: - 
Ukraine now on table willing to discuss Russias key terms - provided a binding security document and protections are signed.

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## Iñigo

Why you deny the reality: among the Polish-Ukrainians there are a lot of nostalgics of the 14th Waffen SS and they form the hard core of the current Ukrainian regime.

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## RescueRanger

Iñigo said:


> Why you deny the reality: among the Polish-Ukrainians there are a lot of nostalgics of the 14th Waffen SS and they form the hard core of the current Ukrainian regime.


We all agree that but not every Ukrainian is a Nazi.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501253140674396160
That's a lot of Russians without jobs


----------



## kingQamaR

Putin should NEVER be trusted. He's KGB I think from east Germany 

Did Russia not announced that it would stop its onslaught 'in a moment' if Ukraine agrees to a raft of extraordinary demands..... Didn't Russia, some years ago, agree NOT TO ATTACK THE UKRAINE if it it gave up its nuclear weapons? If so. Russia's current demands are meaningless and not to be trusted. Like Israel he wants to annex land make a greater Russia Israel

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## dBSPL

Sorry for my laziness, I can't provide a link right now, but some recently leaked documents have revealed some information about that Ukraine was preparing for city wars by the United States at the expense of Ukrainian cities' destruction.

On the basis of conventional systems (especially the air force), the rather weak look of the Ukrainian military inventory was preserved (this was the weakness that provoked Russia), but it seems that the asymmetric warfare capabilities have been improved a lot (and this created possibility of getting bogged down while Russia awaits victory in days) .

I think that most of the atgm aids made now are just symbolic. Probably, Ukrainians already with the most ATGM missiles per kilometer in the world at the moment. But not only that, they probably have better ISTAR facilities(bcs of nato) than the russians, appropriate arrangements on at squad levels, and other preprations underneath some cities



LeGenD said:


> Thanks for your input. I have removed that post.
> 
> Some members are posting any tweet that they find interesting without fact-checking them. This is how disinformation starts to creep in and narratives take shape.
> 
> There were attempts to blanket-brand Ukranians as Nazi in this thread before. Now Al-Qaeda affiliates? Not funny.


I appreciated for your sensitivity about post-truth style. Thank you very much.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501241080343412749

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## coffee_cup

RescueRanger said:


> Aur lo panga. I’m watching this quietly now, also just a word to the wise - if you know someone selling rubles buy some while they are cheap. #justsaying



pssstt, you know we have here some so top notch "finance experts" who are predicting a total demise of Russia very very soon. And that she would be worst than even North Korea, : -D

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501204883390742545

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## coffee_cup

Ali_Baba said:


> Ukraine must be ready to destroy Hostomel airport - it must never be allowed to fall into Russian hands - or Ukraines problems will start to multiply.



And then your next post is gonna be blaming Russia for destroying an airport. LOL.

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## HaMoTZeMaS

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501223646198702081


As per that Logic ... Afghanistan has been so far more than a real country


----------



## coffee_cup

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501204883390742545



If true, these nutters are itching for a direct war between US and Russia !

And they think for some miraculous reason it would not impact them or their families. hmmm

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## HaMoTZeMaS

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501218815572684806


Idiots might believe that... 

All those have been there from the beginning ... things are unveiled with time


----------



## Wood

RescueRanger said:


> That’s been proven to be fake. Please delete this post.
> 
> - Update: -
> Ukraine now on table willing to discuss Russias key terms - provided a binding security document and protections are signed.


I think that the Ukrainians have said that NATO membership will not be pursued because NATO is not willing to allow them in anyway. But Zelensky has refused to enshrine this in the constitution. With respect to the eastern provinces claimed by Russia, I suspect Ukraine will be ready to offer autonomous status only.

Considering that Ukraine's resistance is fighting the war largely fueled by nationalism, I don't expect Zelensky to be in a position to give away everything that Putin expects him to.

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## Kraetoz

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501253140674396160
> That's a lot of Russians without jobs


Any article?


----------



## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501244677974069253
> At this rate, Russia will lose 1/3 of its forces by the end of May.



Remember, it's the force on paper. Exact composition is important.

Russia has committed nearly all of its modern tanks to Ukraine. Logistics losses is double digit of entire Russian army capacity. 1000 IFVs, and APCs is also a tremendous loss.

It doesn't matter if their remaining force is 2/3 of original if all they got left will be conscripts in civilian trucks, and eighties era armour from mothballs.

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## sammuel

Iñigo said:


> Why you deny the reality: among the Polish-Ukrainians there are a lot of nostalgics of the 14th Waffen SS and they form the hard core of the current Ukrainian regime.



This such nonsense.

Far right parties in the last elections got like 2% of the votes, to blame the whole Ukrainian political system of this Is ridiculous.

And trying to sell us that a Jewish president whose members of family fought the Nazis with the soviet army in WW2, formed a Nazi government ,is not just nonsense but a dirty lie , written with bad intent to justify this war.


~

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## RescueRanger

U.N. Denies Banning Staff From Calling Russia’s Attack On Ukraine An ‘Invasion’ Or ‘War’​








UN Denies Banning Staff From Calling Russia’s Attack On Ukraine An ‘Invasion’ Or ‘War’


The UN communications department reportedly told staffers they “have a responsibility to be impartial” when posting about the Russian invasion of Ukraine.




www.forbes.com

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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> Remember, it's the force on paper. Exact composition is important.
> 
> Russia has committed nearly all of its modern tanks to Ukraine. Logistics losses is double digit of entire Russian army capacity. 1000 IFVs, and APCs is also a tremendous loss.
> 
> It doesn't matter if their remaining force is 2/3 of original if all they got left will be conscripts in civilian trucks, and eighties era armour from mothballs.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501232831237865479

This tells me the US has every intention to keep supplying Ukraine with weapons.

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## HaMoTZeMaS

dBSPL said:


> HTS is a terrorist organization. However, even the sins of HTS remain light compared to the Wagner terrorist organization, which has killed thousands of civilians, including acts of terrorism and fueling civil war in 6-7 different countries of the world. People are still dying in Tripoli from the traps and mines left by Wagner.
> 
> There is no doubt that the Russian propaganda tools have learned very well to instrumentalize this Islamic terrorism. The last time they were in Kazakhstan, so they went to Ukraine from there. After all, this could not be a post-truth method that could only be monopolized by the USA.
> 
> Honestly, that's not the part I'm interested in. Because both sides are trying to use their propaganda tools and their powers of persuading societies to the fullest in order to establish an ethical basis for themselves. So understandable.
> 
> The interesting detail is: The photo selection of the relevant Russian information unit and even your reason for sharing this tweet, but at the same time, I think most people understand why. Let me make two reminders though: HTS dont uses the Turkish patch on camouflage. The news itself is a typical Russian propaganda and the photograph used is even irrelevant to this propagative claim.
> 
> Such a thing would never be allowed. HTS is a terrorist organization according to Turkish law. Many wanted members and managers of this terrorist organization were caught by Turkish law enforcement, and there is a search and arrest record for others. The reasons why Turkey does not directly fight HTS in Idlib is related to the situation of millions of Syrians pushed to the Hatay border by the Assad regime. These are a separate story, and if anyone wishes, we can discuss these issues in the related thread.
> 
> The second reason is Russia's direct protection of the PKK, which threatens Turkey, especially in Tel Rifat and Manbij, north of Aleppo. While Russia protects a terrorist organization that threatens Turkey, it cannot be among Turkey's priorities that it consumes its human and financial resources against another terrorist organization that does not threaten it.
> 
> We all know very well why the Russian propaganda tools are so uncomfortable. But if they can rein in their arrogance and understand how Turkey is trying to hold on to a neutral position, they will go a long way. And again, reminder, there are no Turkish drones flying in Ukraine.
> 
> In any case, I will report this 'purposed' post and I will follow what the decision will be. If even such low-level psyops are allowed now, I assure the entire pals in advance I will literally flood the thread with similar style.
> 
> @waz @RescueRanger @LeGenD


i am also curious and amazed that Keyboard Wariors are Peddling the Turkish drones a little too much in this conflict

Seems like, some are intentionally want to Drag Turkey in this conflict Against Russian by broadcasting the socalled Havocs of TB2 or whatsoever system 

I cant even believe that some Drone is flying destroying the conveys of Russia and Russia is doing nothing but having fun time watching its conveys burning
Some Afro country, i can believe, however Russia has been cornered by Drones (after Azer-Armenia conflict because everybody have definitely learnt alot from it) is unacceptable to me

An Airforce is kept rendered by Russia but somehow some Drone hand alone is annihilating Russian Convey - Total Crapshit

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## coffee_cup

RescueRanger said:


> U.N. Denies Banning Staff From Calling Russia’s Attack On Ukraine An ‘Invasion’ Or ‘War’​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN Denies Banning Staff From Calling Russia’s Attack On Ukraine An ‘Invasion’ Or ‘War’
> 
> 
> The UN communications department reportedly told staffers they “have a responsibility to be impartial” when posting about the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com



Anything which is lawful and right is an enemy of these champions of "rule of law and democracy". This system is rotten to the core!

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## LeGenD

coffee_cup said:


> pssstt, you know we have here some so top notch "finance experts" who are predicting a total demise of Russia very very soon. And that she would be worst than even North Korea, : -D


You were addressed on this theme before and you could not come up with rebuttals besides 'in my opinion' statements.

Following article provides a good overview of what is happening:









What it means to cut off Russia's economy with sanctions


Closing off an economy as large and complicated as Russia's has far-reaching implications.




www.marketplace.org





Sit back and watch the show.

I think that Putin will blink at some point.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501244703899070464

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## coffee_cup

sammuel said:


> This such nonsense.
> 
> Far right parties in the last elections got like 2% of the votes, to blame the whole Ukrainian political system of this Is ridiculous.
> 
> And trying to sell us that a Jewish president whose members of family fought the Nazis with the soviet army in ww2 formed a Nazi government is not just nonsense but a dirty lie.
> 
> 
> ~



Ram Chand bhai, he might be a Jew by religion, but there is no denying the fact that he has been supporting those neo-nazi groups in Ukraine. There are plenty of videos available in the internet showing him supporting them.


----------



## sur

RescueRanger said:


> Aur lo panga. I’m watching this quietly now, also just a word to the wise - *if you know someone selling rubles buy some while they are cheap*. #justsaying



_Excuse me! . . . Aap bhee!_

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501259375037628422

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501230385157795845

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501230944002670593

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## coffee_cup

LeGenD said:


> You were addressed on this theme before and you could not come up with rebuttals besides 'in my opinion' statements.
> 
> Following article provides a good overview of what is happening:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What it means to cut off Russia's economy with sanctions
> 
> 
> Closing off an economy as large and complicated as Russia's has far-reaching implications.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.marketplace.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now sit back and watch the show.



Bhai meray, you want to have my honest opinion? You are not gonna like it .... but here it is:

Russia and Urkaine are going to settle this soon, sooner than you think!

Few more months and the impact of sanctions will start wearing down. Like it or not, the largest economies of Europe are totally dependent on Russia for all sorts of metals, minerals, raw materials, oil, gas and what not. The car industry in Germany has already started to put pressure on the govt and articles have started to appear in the media questioning sanctions.

It wont take long. Today's warning from Russian top official about closing down Nordstream 1 if it continues should not be taken light.

Russia will remain a major power in the world. I know it is not something you want to hear, but it is how it is.

Make your own prediction and lets bet.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

*Head of rocket and artillery unit hiding "in a women's fur coat in the private sector?"* 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501258249126961156

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## Messerschmitt

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501254474396053510


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501256513633009671

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## RescueRanger

coffee_cup said:


> Anything which is lawful and right is an enemy of these champions of "rule of law and democracy". This system is rotten to the core!







__





Russia restricts import and export of listed goods and raw materials - Interfax







financialpost.com

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## HaMoTZeMaS

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501029874491875334
> 
> This may be related to the claim that 30 aircrafts were destroyed in Kherson. They were likely referring to rotary aircrafts


Oh


monitor said:


> Ukraine says it is no longer insisting on joining NATO — AFP
> 
> Ukraine says it is no longer insisting on joining NATO — AFP


Boht Der ki Meherban Atay Atay

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## RescueRanger

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501256513633009671


Old school Russian tactics



sur said:


> _Excuse me! . . . Aap bhee!_


I’m just following the advice of someone who’s in the know.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501247354992836608

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## Iñigo




----------



## Type59

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501230385157795845
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501230944002670593


Which settlement?


----------



## reflecthofgeismar

Huffal said:


> They dont. They really dont.
> 
> They have 7000 t72, 4000 t80 and about 200 t90 in storage/reserves. No other tanks are im reserves/stotage



They still have 150 T-62M/MV in service, which will be upgraded to T-62M3. (I know, even english Wiki doesn't shows that.)
And they have "some" T-62M/MV in reserve/in depots but mostly for Syria.


----------



## coffee_cup

RescueRanger said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia restricts import and export of listed goods and raw materials - Interfax
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> financialpost.com



Now here we go.
Time to invest in precious metals? : -)

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501230385157795845
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501230944002670593


This sounds more like an opinion than a fact 🙂

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## Hassan Al-Somal




----------



## dBSPL

HaMoTZeMaS said:


> i am also curious and amazed that Keyboard Wariors are Peddling the Turkish drones a little too much in this conflict
> 
> Seems like, some are intentionally want to Drag Turkey in this conflict Against Russian by broadcasting the socalled Havocs of TB2 or whatsoever system
> 
> I cant even believe that some Drone is flying destroying the conveys of Russia and Russia is doing nothing but having fun time watching its conveys burning
> Some Afro country, i can believe, however Russia has been cornered by Drones (after Azer-Armenia conflict because everybody have definitely learnt alot from it) is unacceptable to me
> 
> An Airforce is kept rendered by Russia but somehow some Drone hand alone is annihilating Russian Convey - Total Crapshit


Drones are definitely very effective, no doubt about it. What I'm talking about is not that. I'm just saying that there is no Turkish drone in Ukraine at the moment. The pilots are ukrainian, and the flying planes have the ukrainian air force mark on their wings.

///

I hope that a ceasefire will be agreed upon in a short time, this agenda will lose some of its intensity, so that I can explain to you with a few examples what kind of 'perception' operations are being carried out on the Turkish public opinion. As I have tried to explain several times before, Turkey has to proceed on a delicate balance. We are not a party to the Ukrainian war. In the last two weeks, countless manipulations have been made to make Turkey lose its neutral position. There has also been great pressure to close our airspace, not enforce Montreux, and participate in economic sanctions.

On the Ukrainian side: We give Ukraine some military technologies, we get other military technologies in return. In fact, we have implemented and are carrying out the joint production of some military sub-systems over buying or JVs, especially on the engine area, which other countries have imposed export restrictions on Turkey. For Turkey, the real reason for developing such a strategic defense industry relationship with Ukraine was not Russia, but the other side.

However, the reasons of Ukraine was mostly accelerate its preparations against the risk of Russian invasion, while these systems could not be get or financed by west.

Sounds too complicated? The war of hegemony between the West and Russia necessitates a special alliance area between Ukraine and Turkey to combine their skills on some issues.

However, Turkey's geopolitical conditions also necessitate the continuation of a similarly complex relationship with Russia. This makes Turkey the only truly neutral country, west of Russia.

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## patero

Meengla said:


> Everyone knows that Russia is fighting the entire West and for years in Ukraine. And that makes the conflict much more dangerous! A seemingly defeated Russia likely to throw in everything into Ukraine and the foreign suppliers when they are inside Ukraine. Possibly some massive bombs and even tactical nukes could be used. Russia has already made accusations of chemical and/or biological weapons factory inside Ukraine; they could use that as an excuse to really cross some boundaries in a do or die situation.
> 
> We should not rule out anything once some thresholds are reached. *If a Russian victory would be bad for Ukraine then a Russian loss would be bad for not just Ukraine but for a much wider region!*


Pootin may well decide to nuke Kyiv if a siege drags on long enough and Russian casualties keep on mounting. This could possibly end the war if they take out Zelensky and decapitiate the Ukrainian government, but would Ukrainian resistance necesarily falter in the wake of a nuclear strike? And what would NATOs response be?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501189428647276561

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## thetutle

coffee_cup said:


> Seems like reality has started to dawn on those who sit in the power corridors.
> 
> Well ... Zelensky knows no body is coming to help him. It would be best to talk to Russia and get a deal.


He has the same chance of getting a deal as the Palestinians.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500851668270956552


thetutle said:


> He has the same chance of getting a deal as the Palestinians.




Once the US Dollar is no longer the fiat money of the world, the Holy Land will come back to the hands of its rightful owners. This war is indeed setting the stage for that moment. Palestinians are patient and resilient. They'll have their promised day.

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## sammuel

~

On a different perspective.

Two years ago the world has experienced a first of a kind global event where all the world got sick together.

Now , when we started feeling that this corona is ( hopefully ) , starting to fade away , we are hit by another global event , that already starting to effect every one .

Maybe there is a lesson to be learnt here ? Your thoughts ?



~


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501269433750372359

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501223758094389248

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501268895939837954

Big news

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501204772145315844

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501269433750372359



Can the Mig-29 withstand with S-400 and S-500 air defense systems? I just don't understand the significance of these Mig-29s? Did they forget the fact that they were originally built by Russia? It seems the US government just wants to satisfy the Zelensky's call for air support. But I am pretty sure they know that Russians will be ready for them.

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## RescueRanger

Meanwhile somewhere in suburban America:

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501263561938538503


----------



## sur

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501269433750372359





F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501268895939837954 Big news


They will be flown all the way to US Air Base Rammstein?
And then back to Ukraine?


----------



## coffee_cup

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501269433750372359





F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501268895939837954
> 
> Big news

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## Paul2

coffee_cup said:


> Bhai meray, you want to have my honest opinion? You are not gonna like it .... but here it is:
> 
> Russia and Urkaine are going to settle this soon, sooner than you think!
> 
> Few more months and the impact of sanctions will start wearing down. Like it or not, the largest economies of Europe are totally dependent on Russia for all sorts of metals, minerals, raw materials, oil, gas and what not. The car industry in Germany has already started to put pressure on the govt and articles have started to appear in the media questioning sanctions.
> 
> It wont take long. Today's warning from Russian top official about closing down Nordstream 1 if it continues should not be taken light.
> 
> Russia will remain a major power in the world. I know it is not something you want to hear, but it is how it is.
> 
> Make your own prediction and lets bet.



It will be the ultimate irony if the US will have to buy oil from Iran now. Saudis will be very hurt.

I can't imagine what their facial expression would look like.

I fact, US making a deal with Iran is probably US' only remaining way to extricate itself out of the middle east in an any much dignified manner.

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## Kraetoz

sur said:


> They will be flown all the way to US?
> And then back to Ukraine?


Stay in Poland and use against Russia.


----------



## CIA Mole



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## dBSPL

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> On a different perspective.
> 
> Two years ago the world has experienced a first of a kind global event where all the world got sick together.
> 
> Now , when we started feeling that this corona is ( hopefully ) , starting to fade away , we are hit by another global event , that already starting to effect every one .
> 
> Maybe there is a lesson to be learnt here ? Your thoughts ?
> 
> 
> 
> ~


Imo, the Ukrainian war is not a main event, but the first step in a series of events. The agenda of the world will be famine, permanent food inflation, climate change crisis, permanent energy inflation between many wars.

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## Wood

patero said:


> Pootin may well decide to nuke Kyiv if a siege drags on long enough and Russian casualties keep on mounting. This could possibly end the war if they take out Zelensky and decapitiate the Ukrainian government, but would Ukrainian resistance necesarily falter in the wake of a nuclear strike? And what would NATOs response be?


There are rumors that he already sent a Chechen hit squad for Zelensky but sources within the FSB betrayed them.









Elite Chechen hit squad sent to assassinate Volodymyr Zelensky ‘eliminated’, says Ukraine


Russian-allied fighters 'came to kill our president' but did not succeed, say Ukrainian defence officials




www.telegraph.co.uk

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## coffee_cup

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> On a different perspective.
> 
> Two years ago the world has experienced a first of a kind global event where all the world got sick together.
> 
> Now , when we started feeling that this corona is ( hopefully ) , starting to fade away , we are hit by another global event , that already starting to effect every one .
> 
> Maybe there is a lesson to be learnt here ? Your thoughts ?
> 
> 
> 
> ~



The Great Reset?


----------



## Messerschmitt

sur said:


> They will be flown all the way to US?
> And then back to Ukraine?


Apparently they will first be deployed to Ramstein AB in Germany before being transfered to Ukraine.

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## thetutle

Mrc said:


> By end of may what will b left of kiev?


Who cares. Thats the price of freedom. If they valued Kiyev more than freedom they would have surrendered on day 1. No casualties, no destruction. Just occupation and enslavement. 

Freedom has a price. And its very expensive.


----------



## RescueRanger

sur said:


> They will be flown all the way to US Air Base Rammstein?
> And then back to Ukraine?


They will be flown to rammstine airbase in Germany.


----------



## sur

Messerschmitt said:


> Apparently they will first be deployed to Ramstein AB in Germany before being transfered to Ukraine.





RescueRanger said:


> They will be flown to rammstine airbase in Germany.



Oh it's in Germany.
I thought that was some base in US. My bad.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501265294681165827

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## Paul2

dBSPL said:


> Imo, the Ukrainian war is not a main event, but the first step in a series of events. The agenda of the world will be famine, permanent food inflation, climate change crisis, permanent energy inflation between many wars.



I see it too

Take a notice of news from Egypt. A new revolution is brewing

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## coffee_cup

Paul2 said:


> It will be the ultimate irony if the US will have to buy oil from Iran now. Saudis will be very hurt.
> 
> I can't imagine what their facial expression would look like.
> 
> I fact, US making a deal with Iran is probably US' only remaining way to extricate itself out of the middle east in an any much dignified manner.



As if the West in general and Anglo-Saxon in particular have any morals when it comes to own interests.

LoL.

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## RescueRanger

Paul2 said:


> It will be the ultimate irony if the US will have to buy oil from Iran now. Saudis will be very hurt.
> 
> I can't imagine what their facial expression would look like.
> 
> I fact, US making a deal with Iran is probably US' only remaining way to extricate itself out of the middle east in an any much dignified manner.


The US will position itself as a provider of LPG to Europe. <Watch this space.

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## HttpError

patero said:


> Pootin may well decide to nuke Kyiv if a siege drags on long enough and Russian casualties keep on mounting. This could possibly end the war if they take out Zelensky and decapitiate the Ukrainian government, but would Ukrainian resistance necesarily falter in the wake of a nuclear strike? And what would NATOs response be?



Did he personally tell you this that he will be using Tsar Bomba v2? or you just had a dream?

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## RescueRanger

Kraetoz said:


> Stay in Poland and use against Russia.


No Duda has stressed he won’t have Poland be used as an airbase. We’ve discussed this some time back in this thread.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501273161798762500

Looks to be confirmed. I believe Poland has 28 MiG-29s?

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## Meengla

patero said:


> Pootin may well decide to nuke Kyiv if a siege drags on long enough and Russian casualties keep on mounting. This could possibly end the war if they take out Zelensky and decapitiate the Ukrainian government, but would Ukrainian resistance necesarily falter in the wake of a nuclear strike? And what would NATOs response be?



No one knows the answer and we don't want to find out what is going to happen in that scenario. Yesterday saw a video in which the former US House Speaker Newt Gingritch was asked about enforcing a No Fly Zone over Ukraine. Newt, a realist, said no, can't do. He said America had a long cold war and some proxy wars against the Soviets/Russians but we carefully avoided direct conflict. He said Russia has 6000 nukes. He was corrected by the anchor: 7000 nukes.
The wisdom lies in giving Putin an 'off ramp'. Let him pass away. Stop the stupid war and the killing. This will all be sorted by time.

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## kingQamaR

Kraetoz said:


> Stay in Poland and use against Russia.



They got a good deal Poland off USA who will replace these polish migs29 with USA fighters


----------



## RescueRanger

sur said:


> Oh it's in Germany.
> I thought that was some base in US. My bad.


It’s okay I mainly remember the name of the base because of the Industrial Rock band by the same name

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501274154116558855

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## RescueRanger

kingQamaR said:


> They got a good deal Poland off USA who will replace these polish migs29 with USA fighters


They were part of an ongoing package for Bulgaria and Poland.


----------



## coffee_cup

RescueRanger said:


> The US will position itself as a provider of LPG to Europe. <Watch this space.



This!

They have been aggressively lobbying Germany to abandon Nordstream 2 and buy LPG from the US at higher prices instead.

And now they got it, :- )

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501274390734020610

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## dBSPL

coffee_cup said:


> The Great Reset?


Inevitable end.

Key term: Nation states. Moving to the second stage before the nation-state term is sufficiently destroyed creates some side-effect fears for globalists.

All the wars right now, all the conflicts, all the political camps are just the result of disagreements about when that should happen.

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## Trailer23

Hard to believe that I was Kiev on New Years Eve. Hope everyone I know there is safe.

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## Meengla

dBSPL said:


> Imo, the Ukrainian war is not a main event, but the first step in a series of events. The agenda of the world will be famine, permanent food inflation, climate change crisis, permanent energy inflation between many wars.



Well, if this becomes a regional war then it will only accelerate some of what you are saying. In the end, unless nukes are used, the West will prevail over Russia. But the cost will be heavy for Europe especially and possibly for many other countries. 
Already a friend in California is envying that I live on so much land and that I can grow and hunt my food. Some others are stocking up on supplies. One friend saying learn to hunt wild turkeys, raccoons and dears on our land. One complaining that bullets are sold out in stores. I am not panicking--yet!

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## RescueRanger

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501274390734020610

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## F-22Raptor

Meengla said:


> Well, if this becomes a regional war then it will only accelerate some of what you are saying. In the end, unless nukes are used, the West will prevail over Russia. But the cost will be heavy for Europe especially and possibly for many other countries.
> Already a friend in California is envying that I live on so much land and that I can grow and hunt my food. Some others are stocking up on supplies. One friend saying learn to hunt wild turkeys, raccoons and dears on our land. One complaining that bullets are sold out in stores. I am not panicking--yet!




You thinking tracking of Russian losses is hard now? Wait until US forces get involved. 

The US has several hundred thousand precision guided bombs and 10,000+ cruise missiles.

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## dBSPL

Meengla said:


> Well, if this becomes a regional war then it will only accelerate some of what you are saying. In the end, unless nukes are used, the West will prevail over Russia. But the cost will be heavy for Europe especially and possibly for many other countries.
> Already a friend in California is envying that I live on so much land and that I can grow and hunt my food. Some others are stocking up on supplies. One friend saying learn to hunt wild turkeys, raccoons and dears on our land. One complaining that bullets are sold out in stores. I am not panicking--yet!


Before the Ukraine war started, there was only one thing I wrote here many times: Even if you have 1 square meter of land, learn to grow something there. The wheat crisis is only the leading indicator, the real crisis has not started yet.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501209218099163147


----------



## Ali_Baba

*On Channel 4 TV News :*

Poland to transfer 29 x Mig29s to a German Airbase - from which Ukraine can pickup these fighters. This has been agreed now.

(others have posted this news aswell it seems)









US v Russia! Poland transfers ALL its jets as war takes to the skies - boost for Ukraine


POLAND has handed over all of its fighter jets to the US in a bid to provide support to Ukraine.




www.express.co.uk

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501143933237276674


----------



## HaMoTZeMaS

(CNN) Zelensky's heroism is coming up against Western red lines​https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/08/politics/zelensky-ukraine-western-red-lines-analysis/index.html



Its going to end faster than some thought


----------



## SQ8

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501274390734020610


Ive seen both active national guard kids drive humvees and trucks into ditches near fort benning and drum hot dogging or plain not knowing how to drive but you really have to make an effort to put a tracked SPH into a ditch

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## RescueRanger

Chinese journalist embedded with Russian forces:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501278264551260163


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501143933237276674


Already on it .


----------



## dBSPL

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501204772145315844


Field tests continue

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


>


Those cope bags 😂 here’s another one:

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## kingQamaR

A no fly zone would achieve little anyway. Russia cannot afford to lose very expensive fighter jets, that's why his main offensive is ground based, tanks, artillery, rockets etc. The killing would just increase, as would the risk of all out war.

Give them javelins


----------



## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501273161798762500
> 
> Looks to be confirmed. I believe Poland has 28 MiG-29s?











List of Mikoyan MiG-29 operators - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





United States​The United States bought 21 aircraft from Moldova.[32] Different private owned companies and individuals bought MiG-29s from former USSR republics.[33]


The Americans have some aswell - though they may have been militarily deactivated? If they can be re-activated - then they can be useful ? At a minimum they could be useful as ground attack/mud movers if they cannot get the radars reactivated etc.


----------



## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501274390734020610



All Soviet armour is very hard to drive, like physically hard. There is no steering wheel, only 2 sticks.

I tried driving type 59 on drills: pulling the stick with 2 legs on the floor, and it's barely turning. You need to slowdown, turn, and accelerate again. Visibility is also terrible because decades old plastic glass turned into schmoo. Driver's seat also has very low hatch. Near impossible to sit there for somebody >180cm

I can imagine somebody getting used to it over the years, but I think a lot of Russian armour loss is because of draftee drivers losing their shit under combat stress.

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## TNT

dBSPL said:


> Before the Ukraine war started, there was only one thing I wrote here many times: Even if you have 1 square meter of land, learn to grow something there. The wheat crisis is only the leading indicator, the real crisis has not started yet.



I knew a time would come for my mountain lands.

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## Gripen9

Dalit said:


> Forget the Ukraine Russia conflict for a moment. What I have enjoyed most is the hypocritical US/Western outrage against Pakistan for remaining neutral. At times it felt like the Americans and Europeans want to blame Pakistan for the entire fiasco. Just have a look at the insane amount of coverage given to Pakistan:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pak Official's UK Visit Cancelled Apparently Over Policy On Russia-Ukraine War: Report
> 
> 
> The UK government has unilaterally called off the scheduled visit of Pakistan's National Security Adviser Moeed Yusuf to London apparently because of Islamabad's policy towards Russia's military offensive against Ukraine, according to a media report
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ndtv.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Western-Led Pressure Grows on Pakistan to Condemn Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine
> 
> 
> Islamabad has avoided criticizing the Russian assault on Ukraine and called on both sides to seek a negotiated settlement to the conflict
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.voanews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan Walks Thin Line Between Russia, Ukraine
> 
> 
> Pakistan, a key non-NATO ally of US, abstained from voting on UN General Assembly's condemnation resolution against Russia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.voanews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan’s Prime Minister Takes on the West
> 
> 
> Imran’s Khan’s tirade against the U.S. comes at a time when he is facing serious political challenges at home.
> 
> 
> 
> thediplomat.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Are we your slaves?' Pakistan PM lashes out against EU
> 
> 
> Pakistani PM Imran Khan's comments were in response to foreign pressure pushing Islamabad to criticise Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> english.alaraby.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US warns Pakistan of Ukraine war consequences
> 
> 
> FO objects to envoys’ letter issued earlier this week urging Islamabad to denounce Moscow’s actions.
> 
> 
> 
> www.dawn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan under western pressure to condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine
> 
> 
> The NATO, US, UK and the European Union (EU) are taking to global platforms like the UN General Assembly (UNGA) to gather global support in condemning Russia over its aggression in Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.business-standard.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why was Pakistan’s PM in Russia amid the Ukraine invasion?
> 
> 
> Prime Minister Imran Khan had little to gain and much to lose from backing out of his planned visit to Moscow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Podcast: US choices, global consequences: Hina Khar on India, Pakistan, Afghanistan & broken democracy
> 
> 
> Listen: As Russian forces invaded Ukraine, Pakistan's PM Imran Khan, one of Vladimir Putin’s few friends, visited Moscow. But his trip did not go down well in the US. With Washington ready to downgrade its relationship with Islamabad, Khan is looking to form new friendships to protect Pakistan's...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gzeromedia.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU Council president speaks with PM amid hiccup in ties | The Express Tribune
> 
> 
> Imran hopes for a diplomatic deal over Ukraine conflict
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tribune.com.pk


LOL why aren't they asking the same from India? Aren't they the shooopapowa?

We are irrelevant on the international stage esp. vis a vis european conflicts.

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## HttpError

sur said:


> _Excuse me! . . . Aap bhee!_



I want 4 minutes back of my life which I just wasted on this video and also I'd like to have my wasted internet bandwidth.

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## F-22Raptor

kingQamaR said:


> A no fly zone would achieve little anyway. Russia cannot afford to lose very expensive fighter jets, that's why his main offensive is ground based, tanks, artillery, rockets etc. The killing would just increase, as would the risk of all out war.
> 
> Give them javelins




A run of 2-3 B-2 bombers would annihilate those Russian columns. B-2s can launch up to 80 PGMs in one pass.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501278983207501831

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501280091023630350

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501280990433472515

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501282019506106373

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1 | Sad Sad:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501279141781454857

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501278345106972673

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## sammuel

~

Is it just my impression or have the reports on the fighting today subsided ?

Maybe there is still a chance to make some deal after all ?

Maybe Putin's demand of the " demilitarization " of Ukraine was just a starting point in order to get a better deal ?

Does anyone here sees a scenario where in a week or two , those Russian convoy around Kiev just turns around and go home ?


~

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## F-22Raptor

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> Is it just my impression or have the reports on the fighting today subsided ?
> 
> Maybe there is still a chance to make some deal after all ?
> 
> Maybe Putin's demand of the " demilitarization " of Ukraine was just a starting point in order to get a better deal ?
> 
> Does anyone here sees a scenario where in a week or two , those Russian convoy around Kiev just turns around and go home ?
> 
> 
> ~




Russia is stuck, that’s the problem


----------



## oberschlesier

Ali_Baba said:


> *On Channel 4 TV News :*
> 
> Poland to transfer 29 x Mig29s to a German Airbase - from which Ukraine can pickup these fighters. This has been agreed now.
> 
> (others have posted this news aswell it seems)











Oświadczenie Ministra Spraw Zagranicznych Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej w związku z wypowiedzią Sekretarza Stanu USA w sprawie przekazania samolotów Ukrainie - Ministerstwo Spraw Zagranicznych - Portal Gov.pl







www.gov.pl





Poland is ready to move their mig 29 to Rammstein and give it to the USA. Poland ask for aircraft with similar capabilities in return.


----------



## RescueRanger

Several online stores and streaming services in the US have reported sudden outages:



https://downdetector.com/

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Iron Shrappenel

RescueRanger said:


> Several online stores and streaming services in the US have reported sudden outages:
> 
> 
> 
> https://downdetector.com/


Possible revenge attack by Russian hackers ?

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## LeGenD

coffee_cup said:


> Bhai meray, you want to have my honest opinion? You are not gonna like it .... but here it is:
> 
> Russia and Urkaine are going to settle this soon, sooner than you think!
> 
> Few more months and the impact of sanctions will start wearing down. Like it or not, the largest economies of Europe are totally dependent on Russia for all sorts of metals, minerals, raw materials, oil, gas and what not. The car industry in Germany has already started to put pressure on the govt and articles have started to appear in the media questioning sanctions.
> 
> It wont take long. Today's warning from Russian top official about closing down Nordstream 1 if it continues should not be taken light.
> 
> Russia will remain a major power in the world. I know it is not something you want to hear, but it is how it is.
> 
> Make your own prediction and lets bet.


Russian military intervention in Ukraine is proving costly to Putin administration. Russia is very likely to consider political solution for Ukraine, therefore. 3 rounds of talks have taken place by now. I am not surprised.

Few more months and the impact of sanctions will start wearing down? How easily you draw conclusions, right? Did the impact of American sanctions imposed on Russian economy in 2014 start to wear out? NO. Russian economy dropped from 5th spot to 11th spot in the (2014 - 2021) period. American sanctions produced the desired effects in passing years.

Russia could benefit from Nord Stream 2 with Germany but fate of this project is uncertain now.

Multiple countries have imposed sanctions on Russia by now. These will collectively bite very hard. You will see desired effects in time.

Europe has been crucial to sustaining Russian economy but European countries are now realizing that they need to find ways to decouple from Russia. UK has made a decision in this regard just now:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501240098356183046
Germany and Italy are in a bind due to heavy reliance on Russian gas. Russia can counter-hurt these two rather easily. I give you this. But can Russia take this risk in current situation?









Russia’s attempt to sanction-proof its economy has been in vain


Western co-ordination has shut off much of its currency reserve




www.economist.com













Western sanctions on Russia are like none the world has seen


But they may weaken the system they are meant to defend




www.economist.com













The chilling effect of sanctions on Russia


Economic warfare against Vladimir Putin cannot be fine-tuned to spare the energy sector




www.ft.com













“The results so far for Russia’s economy have been devastating”—a brutal array of sanctions bites


Also on the daily podcast: the view from Asia of Ukraine’s war and the centenary of polymathic auteur Pier Paolo Pasolini




www.economist.com





Speaking of alternatives, some Asian countries can provide some relief to Russia but they do not substitute European markets. USA is watching this development closely as well.

Sanctions imposed on Russia will affect many countries in time.









Far from Putin’s Russia, Tajikistan’s people feel sanctions pain


Remittances to Central Asian republic have plunged in value amid sanctions intended to hit Russia over war in Ukraine.




www.aljazeera.com





Even PM Imran khan has voiced his concern that crippling sanctions on Russia will harm developing countries including Pakistan down the road.

- - -

You are mistaking my critic of Russian miscalculations for disliking Russia. This might surprise you but I am one of the unspoken distant fans of Vladimir Putin. I like Russia very much as well. I wasn't very expressive in this regard here on PDF.

I am of the view that Putin was doing very well until he miscalculated in Ukraine.









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Does someone know where Mexico stands on this conflict? Has Mexico put sanctions on Russia as well?



defence.pk





Putin can do some Damage Control by considering a political solution for Ukraine. He can soothe tempers in this manner. This might convince some countries to reduce sanctions on Russia. However, he cannot reverse everything in motion against Russia now.

When the dust will settle, there will be numerous humbling lessons to write about.

You need to stop assuming about my likes and dislikes while addressing me.

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## Wood

Will Ukrainians be able to get weapons for their MIGs from Poland? Do they have enough pilots to fly these planes?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501271724217745409

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## thetutle

sammuel said:


> This such nonsense.
> 
> Far right parties in the last elections got like 2% of the votes, to blame the whole Ukrainian political system of this Is ridiculous.
> 
> And trying to sell us that a Jewish president whose members of family fought the Nazis with the soviet army in WW2, formed a Nazi government ,is not just nonsense but a dirty lie , written with bad intent to justify this war.
> 
> 
> ~


and you know what else, if this nonsense is true and if zelinsky after synagog goes to bed with a picture of hitler on his pillow, it still does not justify an invasion.



HaMoTZeMaS said:


> i am also curious and amazed that Keyboard Wariors are Peddling the Turkish drones a little too much in this conflict
> 
> Seems like, some are intentionally want to Drag Turkey in this conflict Against Russian by broadcasting the socalled Havocs of TB2 or whatsoever system
> 
> I cant even believe that some Drone is flying destroying the conveys of Russia and Russia is doing nothing but having fun time watching its conveys burning
> Some Afro country, i can believe, however Russia has been cornered by Drones (after Azer-Armenia conflict because everybody have definitely learnt alot from it) is unacceptable to me
> 
> An Airforce is kept rendered by Russia but somehow some Drone hand alone is annihilating Russian Convey - Total Crapshit


yes Turkish drones are very bad, Russia does need to worry about them. Also Armenia doesn't have to worry about them. Its all Turkish propaganda.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501271724217745409



Odessa


----------



## Kraetoz

This thread has more posts than this thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/27-f...fts-inside-pakistani-airspace-dg-ispr.604031/

How can anyone think this is not the start of world war 3?

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## Meengla

F-22Raptor said:


> You thinking tracking of Russian losses is hard now? Wait until US forces get involved.
> 
> The US has several hundred thousand precision guided bombs and 10,000+ cruise missiles.



I agree.
And ironically, Western Europe needed nukes to deter a superior USSR conventional attack but now it is reversed: Russia uses nukes as the ultimate weapon / threat to try to get what it wants or needs.

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## pkuser2k12

RT on Gab: 'China urges Pentagon to disclose alleged “biolabs…'


RT on Gab: 'China urges Pentagon to disclose alleged “biolabs” in Ukraine “as soon as possible” FM spox Zhao Lijian claimed Tuesday that Beijing believes the laboratories in Ukraine are just the "tip of an iceberg” and that the US Dept of Defense “controls 336 biological laboratories in 30...




gab.com

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## Wood



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## Meengla

Paul2 said:


> All Soviet armour is very hard to drive, like physically hard. There is no steering wheel, only 2 sticks.
> 
> I tried driving type 59 on drills: pulling the stick with 2 legs on the floor, and it's barely turning. You need to slowdown, turn, and accelerate again. Visibility is also terrible because decades old plastic glass turned into schmoo. Driver's seat also has very low hatch. Near impossible to sit there for somebody >180cm
> 
> I can imagine somebody getting used to it over the years, but I think a lot of Russian armour loss is because of draftee drivers losing their shit under combat stress.



Then you have probably seen this movie ('The Beast' or 'The Beast of War' - 1988) multiple times. I have plenty of times. Fantastic stuff!!

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## Paul2

Meengla said:


> I agree.
> And ironically, Western Europe needed nukes to deter a superior USSR conventional attack but now it is reversed: Russia uses nukes as the ultimate weapon / threat to try to get what it wants or needs.



Ironically, the force built according to Soviet military doctrine is the most adept at fighting another Soviet style force. Tons of raw firepower against ******** of cheap armour.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501269735505289221

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## coffee_cup

LeGenD said:


> Russian military intervention in Ukraine is proving costly to Putin administration. Russia is very likely to consider political solution for Ukraine, therefore. 3 rounds of talks have taken place by now. I am not surprised.
> 
> Few more months and the impact of sanctions will start wearing down? How easily you draw conclusions, right? Did the impact of American sanctions imposed on Russian economy in 2014 start to wear out? NO. Russian economy dropped from 5th spot to 11th spot in the (2014 - 2021) period. American sanctions produced the desired effects in passing years.
> 
> Russia could benefit from Nord Stream 2 with Germany but fate of this project is uncertain now.
> 
> Multiple countries have imposed sanctions on Russia by now. These will collectively bite very hard. You will see desired effects in time.
> 
> Europe has been crucial to sustaining Russian economy but European countries are now realizing that they need to find ways to decouple from Russia. UK has made a decision in this regard just now:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501240098356183046
> Germany and Italy are in a bind due to heavy reliance on Russian gas. Russia can counter-hurt these two rather easily. I give you this. But can Russia take this risk in current situation?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia’s attempt to sanction-proof its economy has been in vain
> 
> 
> Western co-ordination has shut off much of its currency reserve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.economist.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Western sanctions on Russia are like none the world has seen
> 
> 
> But they may weaken the system they are meant to defend
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.economist.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The chilling effect of sanctions on Russia
> 
> 
> Economic warfare against Vladimir Putin cannot be fine-tuned to spare the energy sector
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ft.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “The results so far for Russia’s economy have been devastating”—a brutal array of sanctions bites
> 
> 
> Also on the daily podcast: the view from Asia of Ukraine’s war and the centenary of polymathic auteur Pier Paolo Pasolini
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.economist.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of alternatives, some Asian countries can provide some relief to Russia but they do not substitute European markets. USA is watching this development closely as well.
> 
> Sanctions imposed on Russia will affect many countries in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Far from Putin’s Russia, Tajikistan’s people feel sanctions pain
> 
> 
> Remittances to Central Asian republic have plunged in value amid sanctions intended to hit Russia over war in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even PM Imran khan has voiced his concern that crippling sanctions on Russia will harm developing countries including Pakistan down the road.
> 
> - - -
> 
> You are mistaking my critic of Russian miscalculations for disliking Russia. This might surprise you but I am one of the unspoken distant fans of Vladimir Putin. I like Russia very much as well. I wasn't very expressive in this regard here on PDF.
> 
> I am of the view that Putin was doing very well until he miscalculated in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> Does someone know where Mexico stands on this conflict? Has Mexico put sanctions on Russia as well?
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin can do some Damage Control by considering a political solution for Ukraine. He can soothe tempers in this manner. This might convince some countries to reduce sanctions on Russia. However, he cannot reverse everything in motion against Russia now.
> 
> When the dust will settle, there will be numerous humbling lessons to write about.
> 
> You need to stop assuming about my likes and dislikes while addressing me.



Well, if you listen to the man himself, he says the Western sanction would have come anyway, no matter whether he invaded Ukraine or not. This is his version.

Russians might have known few things that you or me could never know sitting here.

Even though, I dont support his invasion, but one thing seems certain, the USA would have not settled on anything less than arming Ukraine to the teeth for various reasons.

Every country has red-lines, USA has it, Pakistan has it, China has it and so does Russia.

My opinion is a bit non-mainstream and I think despite all the media circus and all the sanction cries, the saner heads will find a way out of this mess. Or the world will cease to exist as we know it. No one wants that. Even all those George Soros' pulling the strings know it.

From one day to the other media will find something else to go nuts about and life will carry on. Russia will take a hit economically but to dismiss her as a non-entity in the world politics is a grave misjudgement.

---
And lastly, my post was directed towards some people who have already declared Russia dead and that sanctions will bring her to her knees and Russia will start begging for mercy from Anglo-Saxon clan.

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## Wood

LeGenD said:


> Russian military intervention in Ukraine is proving costly to Putin administration. Russia is very likely to consider political solution for Ukraine, therefore. 3 rounds of talks have taken place by now. I am not surprised.
> 
> Few more months and the impact of sanctions will start wearing down? How easily you draw conclusions, right? Did the impact of American sanctions imposed on Russian economy in 2014 start to wear out? NO. Russian economy dropped from 5th spot to 11th spot in the (2014 - 2021) period. American sanctions produced the desired effects in passing years.
> 
> Russia could benefit from Nord Stream 2 with Germany but fate of this project is uncertain now.
> 
> Multiple countries have imposed sanctions on Russia by now. These will collectively bite very hard. You will see desired effects in time.
> 
> Europe has been crucial to sustaining Russian economy but European countries are now realizing that they need to find ways to decouple from Russia. UK has made a decision in this regard just now:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501240098356183046
> Germany and Italy are in a bind due to heavy reliance on Russian gas. Russia can counter-hurt these two rather easily. I give you this. But can Russia take this risk in current situation?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia’s attempt to sanction-proof its economy has been in vain
> 
> 
> Western co-ordination has shut off much of its currency reserve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.economist.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Western sanctions on Russia are like none the world has seen
> 
> 
> But they may weaken the system they are meant to defend
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.economist.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The chilling effect of sanctions on Russia
> 
> 
> Economic warfare against Vladimir Putin cannot be fine-tuned to spare the energy sector
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ft.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “The results so far for Russia’s economy have been devastating”—a brutal array of sanctions bites
> 
> 
> Also on the daily podcast: the view from Asia of Ukraine’s war and the centenary of polymathic auteur Pier Paolo Pasolini
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.economist.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of alternatives, some Asian countries can provide some relief to Russia but they do not substitute European markets. USA is watching this development closely as well.
> 
> Sanctions imposed on Russia will affect many countries in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Far from Putin’s Russia, Tajikistan’s people feel sanctions pain
> 
> 
> Remittances to Central Asian republic have plunged in value amid sanctions intended to hit Russia over war in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even PM Imran khan has voiced his concern that crippling sanctions on Russia will harm developing countries including Pakistan down the road.
> 
> - - -
> 
> You are mistaking my critic of Russian miscalculations for disliking Russia. This might surprise you but I am one of the unspoken distant fans of Vladimir Putin. I like Russia very much as well. I wasn't very expressive in this regard here on PDF.
> 
> I am of the view that Putin was doing very well until he miscalculated in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> Does someone know where Mexico stands on this conflict? Has Mexico put sanctions on Russia as well?
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin can do some Damage Control by considering a political solution for Ukraine. He can soothe tempers in this manner. This might convince some countries to reduce sanctions on Russia. However, he cannot reverse everything in motion against Russia now.
> 
> When the dust will settle, there will be numerous humbling lessons to write about.
> 
> You need to stop assuming about my likes and dislikes while addressing me.


The decision for Europe and US to move away from Russian oil and gas is strategic and not a tactical response. Unless and until Russia turns into a pro western democracy, Putin's mistake will continue to extract its toll on Russian economy. If it takes too long for Russians to reform, then the world will successfully shift to alternate energy technologies in a few decades. China will be the winner in this scenario.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> Ironically, the force built according to Soviet military doctrine is the most adept at fighting another Soviet style force. Tons of raw firepower against ******** of cheap armour.




The integrated fires of US Air Force and Navy PGMs and cruise missiles with US Army guided rocket and self propelled artillery would devastate Russian Forces. And fast IMO

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501277341963767809


----------



## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501268895939837954
> 
> Big news


Do you realise what this means? US is actively arming a country at war with Russia, and doing it openly. With startegic weapons. 

Ukraine will not fall. US has decided this. Naturally poles are too scared to send the planes over for fear of getting bombed, but US of A fears noone. Bring it on.

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## RescueRanger

Meengla said:


> Then you have probably seen this movie ('The Beast' or 'The Beast of War' - 1988) multiple times. I have plenty of times. Fantastic stuff!!


One of my favourite movies. The best part is the Kipling quote at the start.

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## Gripen9

sur said:


> They will be flown all the way to US Air Base Rammstein?
> And then back to Ukraine?


Poland is shitting bricks and wants to avoid any blowback. So this round about way of transfer.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501288850055995396
The Ukrainian farmers though

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## Wood

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501269735505289221


This clown has a point. Russia can choose to interpret the fighter jets transfer to Ukraine as an act of war and go after NATO. But I doubt that Putin has the balls to take NATO on a conventional war without a green light from China.

Despite Putin's threats, I doubt that he wants a nuclear war. He will most definitely not have a kingdom to rule at the end of it.


----------



## The SC

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Odessa


Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister: The situation in Mariupol is catastrophic

Russian Defense: 5,881 Ukrainian military infrastructure sites have been destroyed since the start of the operation..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501246862191378432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499126424594178050

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498953946794278912


----------



## Basel

Type59 said:


> People are confused about how bloody war can be. Russia is losing men and material at a fast rate, but have captured territory and crippled Ukraine as a state.



Russian historically absorbed casualties in war and still won them.

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## A1Kaid

Kharkiv about to fall to Russia, solidifying Russian control of all key eastern territories in Ukraine.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

RescueRanger said:


> Those cope bags 😂 here’s another one:
> 
> View attachment 822065


yes the effect of the roof shield was very limited. It looks like the turret was not blown completely out and the charred occupants were easier to locate inside the tank.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The English Telegram channel of the Russian Ministry of Defense:

❗️1,634 foreigners are kept as human shields by Kiev radicals, including:

in Kharkov – 257 citizens of Jordan (200), Egypt (40), Vietnam (15) and Indonesia (2);
in Sumy – 1,140 citizens of India (576), Tanzania (159), China (121), Ghana (100), Jordan (70), Egypt (60), Pakistan (16), Tunisia (15), Zambia (14 ), Kazakhstan (8) and Serbia (1);
in Mariupol – 88 citizens of Turkey (70) and Kazakhstan (18);
in Kherson – 15 Egyptian citizens;
in Odessa – 7 Indonesian citizens;
in Kiev – 20 citizens of the Republic of Togo (7), Great Britain (7) and the Republic of Benin (6);
in Chernigov – 21 citizens of Pakistan (12) and Indonesia (9).

▪️ Regarding the fate of these foreign citizens, we are working around the clock with the relevant diplomatic departments of these states.

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## RescueRanger

thetutle said:


> yes the effect of the roof shield was very limited. It looks like the turret was not blown completely out and the charred occupants were easier to locate inside the tank.


Cope cages only have about a 50% change of effectiveness and that too based on tests vs RPGs 









BAEs L-ROD Cage Armor


Russian-designed RPG shoulder-fired rockets are a widespread threat in many parts of the world, including the current conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq. At present, the most common threats involve RPG-7 single warhead variants, which are also produced in



www.defenseindustrydaily.com

Reactions: Like Like:
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## BHAN85

Ukraine war: Poland offers all its MIG-29 fighter jets to US in plan to provide aircraft to Kyiv


Washington has been looking at a proposal under which Poland would supply Ukraine with Soviet-era fighters and in turn receive American F-16s to make up for their loss.




news.sky.com





I guess USA wants to monitor RF comms as MiG-29 fly in Ukraine airspace to know if Russia enable some remote kill switch.


----------



## F-22Raptor

A1Kaid said:


> View attachment 822069
> 
> 
> 
> Kharkiv about to fall to Russia, solidifying Russian control of all key eastern territories in Ukraine.




I’ve seen no evidence Kharkiv is about to fall to Russia


----------



## That Guy

@LeGenD @RescueRanger 

Okay, gents. I'm off. Probably not gonna log in for a long while. Things to do, luggage bags to fill, and traveling to be done.

It was interesting.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Haha Haha:
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## RescueRanger

That Guy said:


> @LeGenD @RescueRanger
> 
> Okay, gents. I'm off. Probably not gonna log in for a long while. Things to do, luggage bags to fill, and traveling to be done.
> 
> It was interesting.


Have a good one. 👍

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501279768762793990


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501290281483780104

Reactions: Like Like:
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1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## thetutle

LeGenD said:


> Russian military intervention in Ukraine is proving costly to Putin administration. Russia is very likely to consider political solution for Ukraine, therefore. 3 rounds of talks have taken place by now. I am not surprised.
> 
> Few more months and the impact of sanctions will start wearing down? How easily you draw conclusions, right? Did the impact of American sanctions imposed on Russian economy in 2014 start to wear out? NO. Russian economy dropped from 5th spot to 11th spot in the (2014 - 2021) period. American sanctions produced the desired effects in passing years.
> 
> Russia could benefit from Nord Stream 2 with Germany but fate of this project is uncertain now.
> 
> Multiple countries have imposed sanctions on Russia by now. These will collectively bite very hard. You will see desired effects in time.
> 
> Europe has been crucial to sustaining Russian economy but European countries are now realizing that they need to find ways to decouple from Russia. UK has made a decision in this regard just now:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501240098356183046
> Germany and Italy are in a bind due to heavy reliance on Russian gas. Russia can counter-hurt these two rather easily. I give you this. But can Russia take this risk in current situation?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia’s attempt to sanction-proof its economy has been in vain
> 
> 
> Western co-ordination has shut off much of its currency reserve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.economist.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Western sanctions on Russia are like none the world has seen
> 
> 
> But they may weaken the system they are meant to defend
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.economist.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The chilling effect of sanctions on Russia
> 
> 
> Economic warfare against Vladimir Putin cannot be fine-tuned to spare the energy sector
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ft.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “The results so far for Russia’s economy have been devastating”—a brutal array of sanctions bites
> 
> 
> Also on the daily podcast: the view from Asia of Ukraine’s war and the centenary of polymathic auteur Pier Paolo Pasolini
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.economist.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of alternatives, some Asian countries can provide some relief to Russia but they do not substitute European markets. USA is watching this development closely as well.
> 
> Sanctions imposed on Russia will affect many countries in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Far from Putin’s Russia, Tajikistan’s people feel sanctions pain
> 
> 
> Remittances to Central Asian republic have plunged in value amid sanctions intended to hit Russia over war in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even PM Imran khan has voiced his concern that crippling sanctions on Russia will harm developing countries including Pakistan down the road.
> 
> - - -
> 
> You are mistaking my critic of Russian miscalculations for disliking Russia. This might surprise you but I am one of the unspoken distant fans of Vladimir Putin. I like Russia very much as well. I wasn't very expressive in this regard here on PDF.
> 
> I am of the view that Putin was doing very well until he miscalculated in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> Does someone know where Mexico stands on this conflict? Has Mexico put sanctions on Russia as well?
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin can do some Damage Control by considering a political solution for Ukraine. He can soothe tempers in this manner. This might convince some countries to reduce sanctions on Russia. However, he cannot reverse everything in motion against Russia now.
> 
> When the dust will settle, there will be numerous humbling lessons to write about.
> 
> You need to stop assuming about my likes and dislikes while addressing me.


Yes Putin did well for Russia, until Crimea. I can see why he did it. CIA maidan coup. But invading Crimea, an area which UK and Ottomans went to war with Russia over. That really ruined him in the eyes of the west, and this invasion has buried him. 

Even if he goes home tomorrow and leaves Ukraine. Who will pay for all the damage? It will have to be Russia, so sanctions cant be lifted until there is regime change and Russia agrees to pay for it all. 

Its all over for him and all over for Russia while they harbour him. it could take 15 years to sort all this out.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Meengla

Wood said:


> This clown has a point. Russia can choose to interpret the fighter jets transfer to Ukraine as an act of war and go after NATO. But I doubt that Putin has the balls to take NATO on a conventional war without a green light from China.
> 
> Despite Putin's threats, I doubt that he wants a nuclear war. *He will most definitely not have a kingdom to rule at the end of it.*



Maybe Putin wouldn't care and maybe those around him would be powerless or complicit themselves to stop Putin from going 'the whole hog'?? You see, if rumors are true, Trump was going to be stopped from launching the nukes/attacks against China after Trump's loss in the 2020 elections. Who is going to stop Putin if it comes to that?? *A cornered Putin is extremely dangerous!* That's a reality people need to truly understand and give him an 'off ramp'. Russia's issues will be sorted out in time, as I keep repeating. Give time a chance!

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## Indus Pakistan

gambit said:


> But Russia made a *WRITTEN* promise not to attack Ukraine if Ukraine give up 1700 nuclear warheads.


Iran nuclear deal? Or was the ink used dissolvable?

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501296117933297669


----------



## Khan vilatey

Shit he is right, I am living in a bizzaro world






k

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## Ali_Baba

thetutle said:


> Even if he goes home tomorrow and leaves Ukraine. Who will pay for all the damage? It will have to be Russia, so sanctions cant be lifted until there is regime change and Russia agrees to pay for it all.



Agree - this is the point that most people are forgetting - the sanctions will remain until we have proof that Russia cannot do this again - either economically or politically or militarily ever again.

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## Gripen9

That Guy said:


> @LeGenD @RescueRanger
> 
> Okay, gents. I'm off. Probably not gonna log in for a long while. Things to do, luggage bags to fill, and traveling to be done.
> 
> It was interesting.


Safe travels


----------



## Meengla

Khan vilatey said:


> Shit he is right, I am living in a bizzaro world
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> k



He's phenomenal! I don't think I had ever seen him for more than 5-10 minutes of videos before but he's the Tucker Carlson of India or vice versa. And looking at his Indian invitees, there is strong anti-Americanism in Indian intelligentsia. I am surprised. 
Which brings to me say: Pakistan really has no dog in this fight. India is far more affected because of the India-Russia decades old relations but for Pakistan, except for some potential benefits for Pakistan's main ally China gaining some leverage, Pakistanis can afford to be truly neutral. An immediate Russian loss or cutting to size and a Russian over dependence on China or an American UNPivoting from the Pacific back to Europe is not good for India. 

I still wish the killing ends and ends asap!

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## Hassan Al-Somal

From the Telegram of the Russian Ministry of Defense:

▪️ The grouping of troops of Lugansk People's Republic, continuing offensive operations, took control of *Pudovka* and *Nizhnee*. 

▪️ The units of the People's Militia of the Donetsk People's Republic took control over* Olenovka, Pol'noe *and *Yuzhno-Donbass.* 

*In Mariupol, after the end of cease-fire, the units of the Donetsk Republic advanced another 800-900 meters. *

▪️ The units of the Russian Armed Forces took control of *Peredovoe* and *Kariernaya. *

▪️* During the day, bomber and assault aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces destroyed 32 military facilities. 
*
💥 Among them: 4 command posts, 3 radar station, 2 fuel depots and 11 areas of concentration of weapons and military equipment. 

*▪️ In total, 2,581 military infrastructure facilities of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation. *

💥 Among them: 90 command posts and communication centres of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, 1*23 S-300, Buk M-1 and Osa anti-aircraft missile systems, as well as 81 radar stations. *

💥 Destroyed: 897 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 95 multiple rocket launch systems, 336 field artillery and mortars, 662 units of special military vehicles, 84 unmanned aerial vehicles. 

#MoD #Briefing #Russia #Ukraine 
@mod_russia_en

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## thetutle

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501269735505289221


This grotesque maniac and Putin apologist, is actually right. But we are at war with Russia.


----------



## The SC

Biden: I said from the beginning that the American citizen will pay the price for sanctions against Russia..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501271790068412417
Meanwhile.. the average Americans:

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## gambit

Indus Pakistan said:


> Iran nuclear deal? Or was the ink used dissolvable?


You should try this wonderful American invention call 'the internet'. And no, it is not the Iran nuclear negotiation.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501290294423302148


Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501290532076544000

Reactions: Like Like:
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## kingQamaR

A1Kaid said:


> View attachment 822069
> 
> 
> 
> Kharkiv about to fall to Russia, solidifying Russian control of all key eastern territories in Ukraine.



Seems two Russian generals have been killed putting themselves in harms way. Did they choose a soldiers death, rather than returning with a defeated army?


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Huffal said:


> They dont. They really dont.
> 
> They have 7000 t72, 4000 t80 and about 200 t90 in storage/reserves. No other tanks are im reserves/stotage


It gets proven factually wrong multiple times and instead of admitting fault just goes on to the next topic to lie about with its copium dreams.

What an interesting creature.


----------



## Meengla

We all need to be cautious of the outcome. We just saw what happened in Afghanistan in August 2021. So many 'experts' proved wrong. So many nice words from Biden when meeting Ghani in the White House were just words. So much social media support for the then 'democratically elected' Afghan govt. amounted to nothing once the Taliban took over Kabul. So who is to say what we are hearing about the Russian losses, however factual, may amount to nothing if and when Russia truly captures and consolidates its hold on Ukraine in a chunk of Eastern Ukraine and cuts off Ukraine from its sea access?? *Wars were never won on social media in human history and likely not now either.*

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## lightning F57

Putins got a few options to consider

1) Accept a stalemate and withdraw with some narrative they achieved their objectives
2) Hunker down and continue to take big losses
3) Hunker down and switch tactics to indiscriminatory carpet bombing to bomb the Ukrainians into submission
4) Cut a deal with the west and end the war

Is there any other options? which one is he likely to go with. I think hel end up with option 3.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501300844649615362

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
1 | Wow Wow:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501243034641518607

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> Maybe Putin wouldn't care and maybe those around him would be powerless or complicit themselves to stop Putin from going 'the whole hog'?? You see, if rumors are true, Trump was going to be stopped from launching the nukes/attacks against China after Trump's loss in the 2020 elections. Who is going to stop Putin if it comes to that?? *A cornered Putin is extremely dangerous!* That's a reality people need to truly understand and give him an 'off ramp'. Russia's issues will be sorted out in time, as I keep repeating. Give time a chance!


He cant be stopped. He has to lose. Appeasement wont stop him unfortunately. he will do what he has to do. If someone in Russia manages to get rid of him good, but otherwise he will do what he thinks is best for Russia.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501298139403206658
Ukraine putting captured Russian hardware back into action


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Wood said:


> I think that the Ukrainians have said that NATO membership will not be pursued because NATO is not willing to allow them in anyway. But Zelensky has refused to enshrine this in the constitution. With respect to the eastern provinces claimed by Russia, I suspect Ukraine will be ready to offer autonomous status only.
> 
> Considering that Ukraine's resistance is fighting the war largely fueled by nationalism, I don't expect Zelensky to be in a position to give away everything that Putin expects him to.


Like I said watch for who gives concessions and who sticks to their terms or makes them more onerous.

From what I see, Russia is just adding terms, while Ukraine is giving up concessions.

Why give concessions if you are winning?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501303979153711108
Ukraine now receiving their German antitank weapons

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## Indian Libertarian

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501243034641518607


So Ukraine was lying again?


----------



## Wood

Meengla said:


> Maybe Putin wouldn't care and maybe those around him would be powerless or complicit themselves to stop Putin from going 'the whole hog'?? You see, if rumors are true, Trump was going to be stopped from launching the nukes/attacks against China after Trump's loss in the 2020 elections. Who is going to stop Putin if it comes to that?? *A cornered Putin is extremely dangerous!* That's a reality people need to truly understand and give him an 'off ramp'. Russia's issues will be sorted out in time, as I keep repeating. Give time a chance!


Both US and EU want to give him an off ramp. But will the autocrat be able to keep his position in the throne after taking a face saving exit? Will he not fear the sharks around him?

Time will tell


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501302518336339981

Are you kidding me?

Reactions: Love Love:
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7


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## Gripen9

My go to book for casual reading is Tom Clancy's "Red Storm Rising". It is a modern warfare masterpiece which predates his Jack Ryan Series.

Some of these events unfolding feel eerily similar....

And he wrote that in early 1980s!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Like I said watch for who gives concessions and who sticks to their terms or makes them more onerous.
> 
> From what I see, Russia is just adding terms, while Ukraine is giving up concessions.
> 
> Why give concessions if you are winning?


Putin set out to achieve a regime change in Ukraine. Any dialogue outcome that is less than a regime change is a step down for him. Let's see what happens.

If Putin simply takes control of Ukraine by force, he will deal with a bigger insurgency than what the Americans had to deal with in Afghanistan. Unlike in places like Kashmir or Chechnya, the whole EU/US block will sanction Putin and fund this insurgency until the to be puppet regime is overthrown.


----------



## Primus

FairAndUnbiased said:


> It gets proven factually wrong multiple times and instead of admitting fault just goes on to the next topic to lie about with its copium dreams.
> 
> What an interesting creature.


Who are you talking about?


----------



## Patriot forever

Dombas region. 






Kharkov region







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501244703899070464


----------



## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501302518336339981
> 
> Are you kidding me?


We have a saying in Bosnia, "God always looks after a drunk". Its probably a pre islamic saying. Proven right this time. Who with a heart would shoot a drunkard sleeping in a war zone?

Reactions: Love Love:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501290098716860417

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501308158253404169

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## FairAndUnbiased

Wood said:


> Putin set out to achieve a regime change in Ukraine. Any dialogue outcome that is less than a regime change is a step down for him. Let's see what happens.
> 
> If Putin simply takes control of Ukraine by force, he will deal with a bigger insurgency than what the Americans had to deal with in Afghanistan. Unlike in places like Kashmir or Chechnya, the whole EU/US block will sanction Putin and fund this insurgency until the to be puppet regime is overthrown.


We'll see. Ukraine also set out to join NATO, then retake Crimea and Eastern Donbass. They're failing to do all 3 and in fact may be forced to give up entire Donbass plus Kherson Oblast north of Crimea, in addition to possibly getting Kiev flattened. Their GDP per capita is likely to drop below India's this year.

So far a smaller Russian force has invaded Ukraine, inflicted disproportionate casualties, and Ukrainian forces cannot remove them. This is the fact on the ground right now.



Huffal said:


> Who are you talking about?


The person you replied to claiming Russia still has T-56 in storage.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


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## LeGenD

Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments






defence.pk













U.S. Has Issues With Poland's Plan To Turn Over Its MiG-29s For Eventual Use By Ukraine (Updated)


Over two dozen MiG-29s could help Ukraine keep challenging the Russian Air Force, but it won't be simple getting them there.




www.thedrive.com





This is BIG.

US is looking forward to rebuild Ukrainian Air Force.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## SQ8

LeGenD said:


> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. Has Issues With Poland's Plan To Turn Over Its MiG-29s For Eventual Use By Ukraine (Updated)
> 
> 
> Over two dozen MiG-29s could help Ukraine keep challenging the Russian Air Force, but it won't be simple getting them there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is BIG.
> 
> US is looking forward to rebuild Ukrainian Air Force.


Have they agreed to? Its been a debated news back and forth with the poles walking it back.

Those migs need a base though and the Russians are likely to have better luck hitting military targets than holding civilian centers.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## FuturePAF

A sensible livestream evaluation of the war. Ex. Through the information campaign Ukraine a has made itself look like it’s winning and it’s destroying three times more then it is actually destroying. While the reality is Russian progress is slow but still moving forward day by day.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

The weather may be working against Putin | CNN


Rapid renewal of the JCPOA -- with or without a Russian signature -- represents an opportunity to strike a major blow at everything Putin stands for, even the foundations of his power and influence, writes David Andelman.




edition.cnn.com





even the international jewery now supports Iran deal to get the oil flowing. 

Iran can now be rich, and Russia in the naughty room.


----------



## LeGenD

SQ8 said:


> Have they agreed to? Its been a debated news back and forth with the poles walking it back.
> 
> Those migs need a base though and the Russians are likely to have better luck hitting military targets than holding civilian centers.


YES.

_After multiple carefully worded denials regarding reports about planned sales or donations of MiG-29 Fulcrum fighter jets to Ukraine, the Polish government has formally announced plans to transfer its entire fleet of these aircraft to the U.S. government. Though not stated, it seems all but certain that American authorities will pass these jets to the Ukrainian Air Force. Secretary of State Antony Blinken said this past weekend that such a transfer would, unequivocally, get a "green light" from the United States.

The Polish Ministry of Foreign Affairs announced the deal today, adding that it had requested the U.S. government provide sufficient numbers of other fighter jets to make up for the loss of these MiG-29s. The Polish Air Force's current fighter jet fleets consist of around 28 Fulcrums and some 48 Block 52+ F-16C/D Vipers. In terms of combat jets, Poland's Air Force also operates a smaller number of Su-22M4 Fitter ground-attack jets. The country also has F-35A Joint Strike Fighters on order, but does not expect to take delivery of the first one of these jets until 2024._

From the link I shared in previous post.


----------



## RescueRanger

Nuland - another embarrassment for the US government - don’t these people coordinate press statements?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501297440741539840

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## LeGenD

Poland offers to hand over MiG jet fighters to U.S. for use by Ukraine


The Polish government said Tuesday it is prepared to hand over its entire fleet of MiG-29 fighters to the United States for possible use in Ukraine, so long as Washington and its NATO allies provide Warsaw with comparable combat aircraft.




www.washingtontimes.com













US dismisses Polish plan to provide fighter jets to be sent to Ukraine


Pentagon says plan for Poles to give Soviet-era jets to US ‘not tenable’ as Ukraine cities await promised Russian ceasefire




www.theguardian.com













US rejects Poland offer to give it Russian-made jets for Ukraine


The United States rejected a Polish offer to send MiG-29 fighter jets to Ukraine via a US airbase, saying the proposal raised ‘serious concerns’ for the entire Nato alliance.




www.scmp.com













Poland to send MiG-29 fighter jets to US base to help Ukraine


POLAND has said it will give all of its MiG-29 fighter jets to the US, apparently agreeing to an arrangement that would allow them to be used by…




www.thenational.scot









__





Subscribe to read | Financial Times


News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




www.ft.com

Reactions: Like Like:
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## gambit

Wood said:


> Will Ukrainians be able to get weapons for their MIGs from Poland?


Most likely -- yes. Let us go with the US F-16 deal for now. Ordnance from the MIGs are probably not compatible with the F-16, so there is no logic in keeping them. Send'em all to Ukraine.



Wood said:


> Do they have enough pilots to fly these planes?


Am Air Force, so am always going to be partial to air force people, no matter their country. 

Pilots are normally valuable assets. As long as there is a functional airfield, jets will fly. But in this particular situation with the Ukrainians, the longer the absence of the VKS over Ukrainian airspace, the greater the value of the Ukrainian pilots. This valuation is tactical. As long as the VKS either failed or refused to achieve air superiority over Ukraine, maybe they refused for some mysterious tactics we do not know yet, Ukrainian pilots must act quickly to deny airspace to the VKS and to attack Russian ground forces, especially that stalled supply convoy. The longer and greater presence of Ukrainian jets over Ukrainian ground forces, the morale factor cannot be understated. So whatever amount of pilots Ukraine have, those guys are national treasure right now.

That said, it will not be easy taking over the Polish MIGs.

For starter, how will the Ukrainian pilots get over to Germany? How many jets determine how many pilots.

Next, the Ukrainian pilots will have to examine the Polish MIGs to see what are the differences, and there *WILL* be at least minor differences between what they are used to vs what the Poles have done to these MIGs. But am willing to say that the Ukrainians pilots will be able to adjust.

Next, the Ukrainian pilots will have to make familiarization or functional check flights. They have to know how each jet perform in the air. All jets are essentially hand built, no matter the country. So inevitably, there will be the usual 'product variations' but this will not be a major problem. As long as the pilots are comfortable with the functional check flights, they will accept the jets. But they have to make these flights.

Next, on the return trip to Ukraine, will these jets be armed? No doubt the Russians will know of this deal so now, even though the VKS is largely absent over Ukrainian airspace, I am *%100* confident that the VKS will sortie to hunt them down. From my personal perspective, it would be foolish not to preempt the Ukrainians, and the Ukrainians would be foolish not to assume the same, so most likely, the return flights will be armed and treated as a combat sortie. The Americans, the Germans, and the Poles would follow the same reasoning, so the MIGs will be armed with air-air missiles to defend themselves until they make it home and begin to use the jets for other missions.

For the long term, if these MIGs make it to Ukrainian hands, and if the VKS do not show whatever mysterious tactics they have been withholding or that the VKS is truly incompetent in this war, the fight will be tougher for Russia.

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Love Love:
1


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## thetutle

FairAndUnbiased said:


> We'll see. Ukraine also set out to join NATO, then retake Crimea and Eastern Donbass. They're failing to do all 3 and in fact may be forced to give up entire Donbass plus Kherson Oblast north of Crimea, in addition to possibly getting Kiev flattened. Their GDP per capita is likely to drop below India's this year.
> 
> So far a smaller Russian force has invaded Ukraine, inflicted disproportionate casualties, and Ukrainian forces cannot remove them. This is the fact on the ground right now.
> 
> 
> The person you replied to claiming Russia still has T-56 in storage.


this is irrelevant. The facts are that Russia has the whole developed world against it and is facing a cliff. Ukraine is just a piece on the chess board. Russia has taken the pawn but has exposed the king.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501295452863578117

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501311464057057285

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## coffee_cup

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501295452863578117



And Iraq has weapons of mass destruction.

And Taliban can never take over Kabul.

...

These people never get tired!

Reactions: Like Like:
9 | Haha Haha:
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## thetutle

gambit said:


> Most likely -- yes. Let us go with the US F-16 deal for now. Ordnance from the MIGs are probably not compatible with the F-16, so there is no logic in keeping them. Send'em all to Ukraine.
> 
> 
> Am Air Force, so am always going to be partial to air force people, no matter their country.
> 
> Pilots are normally valuable assets. As long as there is a functional airfield, jets will fly. But in this particular situation with the Ukrainians, the longer the absence of the VKS over Ukrainian airspace, the greater the value of the Ukrainian pilots. This valuation is tactical. As long as the VKS either failed or refused to achieve air superiority over Ukraine, maybe they refused for some mysterious tactics we do not know yet, Ukrainian pilots must act quickly to deny airspace to the VKS and to attack Russian ground forces, especially that stalled supply convoy. The longer and greater presence of Ukrainian jets over Ukrainian ground forces, the morale factor cannot be understated. So whatever amount of pilots Ukraine have, those guys are national treasure right now.
> 
> That said, it will not be easy taking over the Polish MIGs.
> 
> For starter, how will the Ukrainian pilots get over to Germany? How many jets determine how many pilots.
> 
> Next, the Ukrainian pilots will have to examine the Polish MIGs to see what are the differences, and there *WILL* be at least minor differences between what they are used to vs what the Poles have done to these MIGs. But am willing to say that the Ukrainians pilots will be able to adjust.
> 
> Next, the Ukrainian pilots will have to make familiarization or functional check flights. They have to know how each jet perform in the air. All jets are essentially hand built, no matter the country. So inevitably, there will be the usual 'product variations' but this will not be a major problem. As long as the pilots are comfortable with the functional check flights, they will accept the jets. But they have to make these flights.
> 
> Next, on the return trip to Ukraine, will these jets be armed? No doubt the Russians will know of this deal so now, even though the VKS is largely absent over Ukrainian airspace, I am *%100* confident that the VKS will sortie to hunt them down. From my personal perspective, it would be foolish not to preempt the Ukrainians, and the Ukrainians would be foolish not to assume the same, so most likely, the return flights will be armed and treated as a combat sortie. The Americans, the Germans, and the Poles would follow the same reasoning, so the MIGs will be armed with air-air missiles to defend themselves until they make it home and begin to use the jets for other missions.
> 
> For the long term, if these MIGs make it to Ukrainian hands, and if the VKS do not show whatever mysterious tactics they have been withholding or that the VKS is truly incompetent in this war, the fight will be tougher for Russia.


They must have highway sections and tunnels where these aircraft can go. Or even old hardened soviet bases. They must be disbursed. Even if each one delivers one full payload on target, it will buy ukranians time.


----------



## Flight of falcon

LeGenD said:


> YES.
> 
> _After multiple carefully worded denials regarding reports about planned sales or donations of MiG-29 Fulcrum fighter jets to Ukraine, the Polish government has formally announced plans to transfer its entire fleet of these aircraft to the U.S. government. Though not stated, it seems all but certain that American authorities will pass these jets to the Ukrainian Air Force. Secretary of State Antony Blinken said this past weekend that such a transfer would, unequivocally, get a "green light" from the United States.
> 
> The Polish Ministry of Foreign Affairs announced the deal today, adding that it had requested the U.S. government provide sufficient numbers of other fighter jets to make up for the loss of these MiG-29s. The Polish Air Force's current fighter jet fleets consist of around 28 Fulcrums and some 48 Block 52+ F-16C/D Vipers. In terms of combat jets, Poland's Air Force also operates a smaller number of Su-22M4 Fitter ground-attack jets. The country also has F-35A Joint Strike Fighters on order, but does not expect to take delivery of the first one of these jets until 2024._
> 
> From the link I shared in previous post.




Russia should declare any country giving bases to Ukraine to be a hostile country and destroy any base supporting them. 

Racist Polish need to be spanked ….

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Wood

LeGenD said:


> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. Has Issues With Poland's Plan To Turn Over Its MiG-29s For Eventual Use By Ukraine (Updated)
> 
> 
> Over two dozen MiG-29s could help Ukraine keep challenging the Russian Air Force, but it won't be simple getting them there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is BIG.
> 
> US is looking forward to rebuild Ukrainian Air Force.


I think the Ukrainians may not have pilots to fly or the ammunition to arm these jets. 

Finally, how will they dodge the SAMs used by Russians? I think this has more symbolic meaning than real ability to change the air cover in this conflict.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Flight of falcon

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501295452863578117




Americans have also discovered two fully functioning nuclear reactors in Iraq producing nuclear weapons .

Reactions: Haha Haha:
3


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501298060248461312


----------



## kingQamaR

FairAndUnbiased said:


> We'll see. Ukraine also set out to join NATO, then retake Crimea and Eastern Donbass. They're failing to do all 3 and in fact may be forced to give up entire Donbass plus Kherson Oblast north of Crimea, in addition to possibly getting Kiev flattened. Their GDP per capita is likely to drop below India's this year.
> 
> So far a smaller Russian force has invaded Ukraine, inflicted disproportionate casualties, and Ukrainian forces cannot remove them. This is the fact on the ground right now.
> 
> 
> The person you replied to claiming Russia still has T-56 in storage.



He wants to recreate the old soviet empire, nothing more nothing less.

However it demonstrates one thing though. Never ever give up nuclear weapons. Ukrainians were a bit foolish to give up nuclear weapons in exchance of western guarantees for security. Now western countries cannot come to their rescue aside from funding and giving some money and weapons here and there. One can still be part of the western world while keeping your nuclear weapons.


----------



## Oublious

Flight of falcon said:


> Russia should declare any country giving bases to Ukraine to be a hostile country and destroy any base supporting them.
> 
> Racist Polish need to be spanked ….




but how? They are not capable to get Ukrain...


----------



## Wood

gambit said:


> Most likely -- yes. Let us go with the US F-16 deal for now. Ordnance from the MIGs are probably not compatible with the F-16, so there is no logic in keeping them. Send'em all to Ukraine.
> 
> 
> Am Air Force, so am always going to be partial to air force people, no matter their country.
> 
> Pilots are normally valuable assets. As long as there is a functional airfield, jets will fly. But in this particular situation with the Ukrainians, the longer the absence of the VKS over Ukrainian airspace, the greater the value of the Ukrainian pilots. This valuation is tactical. As long as the VKS either failed or refused to achieve air superiority over Ukraine, maybe they refused for some mysterious tactics we do not know yet, Ukrainian pilots must act quickly to deny airspace to the VKS and to attack Russian ground forces, especially that stalled supply convoy. The longer and greater presence of Ukrainian jets over Ukrainian ground forces, the morale factor cannot be understated. So whatever amount of pilots Ukraine have, those guys are national treasure right now.
> 
> That said, it will not be easy taking over the Polish MIGs.
> 
> For starter, how will the Ukrainian pilots get over to Germany? How many jets determine how many pilots.
> 
> Next, the Ukrainian pilots will have to examine the Polish MIGs to see what are the differences, and there *WILL* be at least minor differences between what they are used to vs what the Poles have done to these MIGs. But am willing to say that the Ukrainians pilots will be able to adjust.
> 
> Next, the Ukrainian pilots will have to make familiarization or functional check flights. They have to know how each jet perform in the air. All jets are essentially hand built, no matter the country. So inevitably, there will be the usual 'product variations' but this will not be a major problem. As long as the pilots are comfortable with the functional check flights, they will accept the jets. But they have to make these flights.
> 
> Next, on the return trip to Ukraine, will these jets be armed? No doubt the Russians will know of this deal so now, even though the VKS is largely absent over Ukrainian airspace, I am *%100* confident that the VKS will sortie to hunt them down. From my personal perspective, it would be foolish not to preempt the Ukrainians, and the Ukrainians would be foolish not to assume the same, so most likely, the return flights will be armed and treated as a combat sortie. The Americans, the Germans, and the Poles would follow the same reasoning, so the MIGs will be armed with air-air missiles to defend themselves until they make it home and begin to use the jets for other missions.
> 
> For the long term, if these MIGs make it to Ukrainian hands, and if the VKS do not show whatever mysterious tactics they have been withholding or that the VKS is truly incompetent in this war, the fight will be tougher for Russia.


Nice post


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Ukrainian weakness now is that their territorials are not being used even against weakest Russian formations offensively. Even fighting off smallest towns from a single Russian platoon takes too much attention from Ukrainian regular army.



In My Opinion, Ukrainian is not fighting what we called "Occupation" warfare. 

In any hostile occupation, the occupying force will force to leave some troop behind to fight off local counterattack, because the territories they occupied is hostile, which in turn sap the combat strength as the invading army move forward, And this is something the Russian cannot afford to do (They are spreading thin with 200000 troops in a 3 frontal axis) Which mean Ukraine regular and irregular can and should exploit this by launching counter offensive, both within their region or more global. 

But I don't see much counter offensive going on, there are some In Hostemel and Chuhuiv. They should have organise a more structural counter offensive either by the regular or irregular so they can either disrupt the Russian offensive or even push back a little bit...


----------



## Dalit

RescueRanger said:


> Nuland - another embarrassment for the US government - don’t these people coordinate press statements?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501297440741539840



The Americans have gone full-time crazy. What a crazy fvcks. After getting their rear kicked in Afghanistan one would have imagined some sobering up and introspection. It didn't take a month and we are back into another conflict. I can only imagine that the Americans will only rest if the world is destroyed.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


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## FuturePAF

gambit said:


> Most likely -- yes. Let us go with the US F-16 deal for now. Ordnance from the MIGs are probably not compatible with the F-16, so there is no logic in keeping them. Send'em all to Ukraine.
> 
> 
> Am Air Force, so am always going to be partial to air force people, no matter their country.
> 
> Pilots are normally valuable assets. As long as there is a functional airfield, jets will fly. But in this particular situation with the Ukrainians, the longer the absence of the VKS over Ukrainian airspace, the greater the value of the Ukrainian pilots. This valuation is tactical. As long as the VKS either failed or refused to achieve air superiority over Ukraine, maybe they refused for some mysterious tactics we do not know yet, Ukrainian pilots must act quickly to deny airspace to the VKS and to attack Russian ground forces, especially that stalled supply convoy. The longer and greater presence of Ukrainian jets over Ukrainian ground forces, the morale factor cannot be understated. So whatever amount of pilots Ukraine have, those guys are national treasure right now.
> 
> That said, it will not be easy taking over the Polish MIGs.
> 
> For starter, how will the Ukrainian pilots get over to Germany? How many jets determine how many pilots.
> 
> Next, the Ukrainian pilots will have to examine the Polish MIGs to see what are the differences, and there *WILL* be at least minor differences between what they are used to vs what the Poles have done to these MIGs. But am willing to say that the Ukrainians pilots will be able to adjust.
> 
> Next, the Ukrainian pilots will have to make familiarization or functional check flights. They have to know how each jet perform in the air. All jets are essentially hand built, no matter the country. So inevitably, there will be the usual 'product variations' but this will not be a major problem. As long as the pilots are comfortable with the functional check flights, they will accept the jets. But they have to make these flights.
> 
> Next, on the return trip to Ukraine, will these jets be armed? No doubt the Russians will know of this deal so now, even though the VKS is largely absent over Ukrainian airspace, I am *%100* confident that the VKS will sortie to hunt them down. From my personal perspective, it would be foolish not to preempt the Ukrainians, and the Ukrainians would be foolish not to assume the same, so most likely, the return flights will be armed and treated as a combat sortie. The Americans, the Germans, and the Poles would follow the same reasoning, so the MIGs will be armed with air-air missiles to defend themselves until they make it home and begin to use the jets for other missions.
> 
> For the long term, if these MIGs make it to Ukrainian hands, and if the VKS do not show whatever mysterious tactics they have been withholding or that the VKS is truly incompetent in this war, the fight will be tougher for Russia.


While Warsaw Pact Migs and Sukhois are nearly Soviet quality, I’m surprised the boys on the Potomac aren't trying to Buy up decent condition East bloc planes from around the world and Sprucing them up before handing them over to the Ukrainians.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501316525340434439


----------



## FuturePAF

jhungary said:


> In My Opinion, Ukrainian is not fighting what we called "Occupation" warfare.
> 
> In any hostile occupation, the occupying force will force to leave some troop behind to fight off local counterattack, because the territories they occupied is hostile, which in turn sap the combat strength as the invading army move forward, And this is something the Russian cannot afford to do (They are spreading thin with 200000 troops in a 3 frontal axis) Which mean Ukraine regular and irregular can and should exploit this by launching counter offensive, both within their region or more global.
> 
> But I don't see much counter offensive going on, there are some In Hostemel and Chuhuiv. They should have organise a more structural counter offensive either by the regular or irregular so they can either disrupt the Russian offensive or even push back a little bit...


Probably letting the Russians move over them and poping up behind them, in small units as in the operation Gladio strategy.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501297383258394624

How the Russians feel about losing McDonalds

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Madni Bappa

thetutle said:


> This grotesque maniac and Putin apologist, is actually right. But we are at war with Russia.


Fertilizer going from 200 to 800 dollars is just crazy. These Washington mfers are destroying America and Europe to please Israelis.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## gambit

FuturePAF said:


> While Warsaw Pact Migs and Sukhois are nearly Soviet quality, I’m surprised the boys on the Potomac aren't trying to Buy up decent condition East bloc planes from around the world and Sprucing them up before handing them over to the Ukrainians.


We do have some MIG and Su in government and private hands. Just that no one expected this mess...


----------



## Kraetoz

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501298060248461312


Translation: Its alright, Russia can take Ukraine.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501297383258394624
> 
> How the Russians feel about losing McDonalds



Oh no. McDonalds the junk food chain of the world is leaving Russia. Terrible.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
7


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## Madni Bappa

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501300844649615362


You can tell from her voice she's lying.



Wood said:


> Putin set out to achieve a regime change in Ukraine. Any dialogue outcome that is less than a regime change is a step down for him. Let's see what happens.
> 
> If Putin simply takes control of Ukraine by force, he will deal with a bigger insurgency than what the Americans had to deal with in Afghanistan. Unlike in places like Kashmir or Chechnya, the whole EU/US block will sanction Putin and fund this insurgency until the to be puppet regime is overthrown.


US /EU will also deal with severe economic problems at home as well.

For both blocs it is a catch 22



kingQamaR said:


> He wants to recreate the old soviet empire, nothing more nothing less.


That is a very naive, uneducated and frankly a stupid statement to make.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


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## Type59

F-22Raptor said:


> A run of 2-3 B-2 bombers would annihilate those Russian columns. B-2s can launch up to 80 PGMs in one pass.


Nuclear deterrence. Why should Russia remain conventional. People are getting giddy in UK and USA.


----------



## V. Makarov

Can somebody please explain why Russians have started executing civilians with their families? The videos have started to flood the social media. I recently saw a video of an old couple (in their 70s) in their car, being mercilessly executed by a Russian BMP, using the automatic grenade launcher. Then there was this young couple that was shot through their necks at close range.

Reactions: Sad Sad:
4


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501285838193410051


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501279421826752515


----------



## reflecthofgeismar

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501302518336339981
> 
> Are you kidding me?



Hippity hoppity, take my T-72B3M, I only want your alcoholic property.


----------



## FuturePAF

gambit said:


> We do have some MIG and Su in government and private hands. Just that no one expected this mess...


True, but here we are. A lot of those private red air contractor aircraft could really get some use if they were handed over to the Ukrainians.


----------



## CIA Mole

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501300844649615362

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2 | Wow Wow:
1


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## jhungary

FuturePAF said:


> While Warsaw Pact Migs and Sukhois are nearly Soviet quality, I’m surprised the boys on the Potomac aren't trying to Buy up decent condition East bloc planes from around the world and Sprucing them up before handing them over to the Ukrainians.


There were this rumor that one part of the Davis Monahan Air Base (309th AMRG, otherwise known as "The Boneyard") have a section reserved for ex-Soviet Aircraft the US collected (Buy/Steal/Capture) from around the world and the sole intention for that is to supply those to Former Soviet Republic to fight a US backed revolution.

Not sure if they are still doing it tho, I am not sure if this is indeed real actually, but this is the rumor I have heard back when I was in the Military....

Maybe @gambit have more idead as an Airforce guy? I don't know

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## Hamartia Antidote

US spy chiefs say Putin is likely to escalate in Ukraine with no concern for civilian casualties


The US intelligence community believes that Russian President Vladimir Putin views the conflict in Ukraine as a "war he cannot afford to lose," suggesting he is likely to escalate the conflict without any concern for the number of civilians killed, the US's top intelligence chiefs told Congress.




www.cnn.com




US spy chiefs say Putin is likely to escalate in Ukraine with no concern for civilian casualties​The US intelligence community believes that Russian President Vladimir Putin views the conflict in Ukraine as a "war he cannot afford to lose," suggesting he is likely to escalate the conflict without any concern for the number of civilians killed, the US's top intelligence chiefs told Congress.
​


----------



## jhungary

FuturePAF said:


> Probably letting the Russians move over them and poping up behind them, in small units as in the operation Gladio strategy.



Maybe, I don't know, but they should be able to do it as the Russian advance is thin enough to pull off a disruption battle

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Paul2

Kraetoz said:


> Translation: Its alright, Russia can take Ukraine.



I kinda don't get this Stoltenberb guy is Americans blocking him, or him blocking Americans?

Anyways he is here only until September.


----------



## LeGenD

Wood said:


> I think the Ukrainians may not have pilots to fly or the ammunition to arm these jets.
> 
> Finally, how will they dodge the SAMs used by Russians? I think this has more symbolic meaning than real ability to change the air cover in this conflict.











Ukraine says its pilots are in Poland picking up donated MiG-29 fighter jets. Poland isn't commenting.


Ukraine says its pilots are in Poland picking up donated MiG-29 fighter jets. Poland isn't commenting.




news.yahoo.com





NATO can provide EW cover to these jet fighters over Ukrainian airspace.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## FuturePAF

Hamartia Antidote said:


> US spy chiefs say Putin is likely to escalate in Ukraine with no concern for civilian casualties
> 
> 
> The US intelligence community believes that Russian President Vladimir Putin views the conflict in Ukraine as a "war he cannot afford to lose," suggesting he is likely to escalate the conflict without any concern for the number of civilians killed, the US's top intelligence chiefs told Congress.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US spy chiefs say Putin is likely to escalate in Ukraine with no concern for civilian casualties​The US intelligence community believes that Russian President Vladimir Putin views the conflict in Ukraine as a "war he cannot afford to lose," suggesting he is likely to escalate the conflict without any concern for the number of civilians killed, the US's top intelligence chiefs told Congress.
> ​


Putin probably about to go full Grozny on Kyiv


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500853652671860739
Carnage!


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501321893143621645

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501322375979319298

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501323198348115976


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501289102003646468


----------



## Orca16

V. Makarov said:


> Can somebody please explain why Russians have started executing civilians with their families? The videos have started to flood the social media. I recently saw a video of an old couple (in their 70s) in their car, being mercilessly executed by a Russian BMP, using the automatic grenade launcher. Then there was this young couple that was shot through their necks at close range.



Where are you seeing these videos?


----------



## FuturePAF

LeGenD said:


> Ukraine says its pilots are in Poland picking up donated MiG-29 fighter jets. Poland isn't commenting.
> 
> 
> Ukraine says its pilots are in Poland picking up donated MiG-29 fighter jets. Poland isn't commenting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.yahoo.com


Poland still trying to avoid getting dragged in directly, so it’s being as careful as possible, but it seems everyone wants regular updates so no one is even hiding the transfer, also because Russia doesn’t want to touch NATO directly and everyone knows it.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501289102003646468


Any update on the planning for an amphibious landing to take Odessa?


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500937765814517774
Worst case scenario for Germany in stopping Russian energy is estimated to be 3% GDP loss.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## Oldman1

Dalit said:


> The Americans have gone full-time crazy. What a crazy fvcks. After getting their rear kicked in Afghanistan one would have imagined some sobering up and introspection. It didn't take a month and we are back into another conflict. I can only imagine that the Americans will only rest if the world is destroyed.


Say what? Remember Vietnam War? You think that was enough to force the U.S. to sober up and introspect? Look what they did to the Russians in Afghanistan during the 1980s. Not sure if you were alive at the time for that.


----------



## Iñigo

V. Makarov said:


> Can somebody please explain why Russians have started executing civilians with their families? The videos have started to flood the social media. I recently saw a video of an old couple (in their 70s) in their car, being mercilessly executed by a Russian BMP, using the automatic grenade launcher. Then there was this young couple that was shot through their necks at close range.



The video I have seen was Ukrainian

I've seen a handful of videos, and so far the ones I've seen were Ukrainians killing civilians.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Oldman1

gambit said:


> Most likely -- yes. Let us go with the US F-16 deal for now. Ordnance from the MIGs are probably not compatible with the F-16, so there is no logic in keeping them. Send'em all to Ukraine.
> 
> 
> Am Air Force, so am always going to be partial to air force people, no matter their country.
> 
> Pilots are normally valuable assets. As long as there is a functional airfield, jets will fly. But in this particular situation with the Ukrainians, the longer the absence of the VKS over Ukrainian airspace, the greater the value of the Ukrainian pilots. This valuation is tactical. As long as the VKS either failed or refused to achieve air superiority over Ukraine, maybe they refused for some mysterious tactics we do not know yet, Ukrainian pilots must act quickly to deny airspace to the VKS and to attack Russian ground forces, especially that stalled supply convoy. The longer and greater presence of Ukrainian jets over Ukrainian ground forces, the morale factor cannot be understated. So whatever amount of pilots Ukraine have, those guys are national treasure right now.
> 
> That said, it will not be easy taking over the Polish MIGs.
> 
> For starter, how will the Ukrainian pilots get over to Germany? How many jets determine how many pilots.
> 
> Next, the Ukrainian pilots will have to examine the Polish MIGs to see what are the differences, and there *WILL* be at least minor differences between what they are used to vs what the Poles have done to these MIGs. But am willing to say that the Ukrainians pilots will be able to adjust.
> 
> Next, the Ukrainian pilots will have to make familiarization or functional check flights. They have to know how each jet perform in the air. All jets are essentially hand built, no matter the country. So inevitably, there will be the usual 'product variations' but this will not be a major problem. As long as the pilots are comfortable with the functional check flights, they will accept the jets. But they have to make these flights.
> 
> Next, on the return trip to Ukraine, will these jets be armed? No doubt the Russians will know of this deal so now, even though the VKS is largely absent over Ukrainian airspace, I am *%100* confident that the VKS will sortie to hunt them down. From my personal perspective, it would be foolish not to preempt the Ukrainians, and the Ukrainians would be foolish not to assume the same, so most likely, the return flights will be armed and treated as a combat sortie. The Americans, the Germans, and the Poles would follow the same reasoning, so the MIGs will be armed with air-air missiles to defend themselves until they make it home and begin to use the jets for other missions.
> 
> For the long term, if these MIGs make it to Ukrainian hands, and if the VKS do not show whatever mysterious tactics they have been withholding or that the VKS is truly incompetent in this war, the fight will be tougher for Russia.


Definitely will be armed and need to be dispersed and hidden quickly. Probably where there is less surveillance at the time or a gap in sensors somewhere when it is the right time.



FairAndUnbiased said:


> Like I said watch for who gives concessions and who sticks to their terms or makes them more onerous.
> 
> From what I see, Russia is just adding terms, while Ukraine is giving up concessions.
> 
> Why give concessions if you are winning?


Russia gave up trying to demilitarize Ukraine...probably because Russia keeps sending arms to Ukraine.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Paul2

LeGenD said:


> Ukraine says its pilots are in Poland picking up donated MiG-29 fighter jets. Poland isn't commenting.
> 
> 
> Ukraine says its pilots are in Poland picking up donated MiG-29 fighter jets. Poland isn't commenting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO can provide EW cover to these jet fighters over Ukrainian airspace.



First, they can just avoid SAMs if NATO EW got their locations by now. Then send whatever standoff weapons remaining they have to destroy S300s in Belarus.

Everything else will not threaten them flying inland, but Russian planes will have to fly through a still relatively dense AA net if they will want to engage.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501244017320857606
Zelensky speaking to the UK house of commons

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501324066178879489


----------



## Madni Bappa

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501321893143621645
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501322375979319298
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501323198348115976


Ooi ooi cyka blyat. Menya mama. Looks like ammo dump exploding.


----------



## LeGenD

V. Makarov said:


> Can somebody please explain why Russians have started executing civilians with their families? The videos have started to flood the social media. I recently saw a video of an old couple (in their 70s) in their car, being mercilessly executed by a Russian BMP, using the automatic grenade launcher. Then there was this young couple that was shot through their necks at close range.


I recall some members in this thread who were trying to convey how humanitarian Russians are - that they are trying their best to not harm civilians.

I pointed out that all should wait for the war to prolong and more information to surface. Numerous atrocities will come to light in time.

This is WAR, kids. Russian army is not in Ukraine to give flowers to Ukrainians.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Oldman1

Ali_Baba said:


> Agree - this is the point that most people are forgetting - the sanctions will remain until we have proof that Russia cannot do this again - either economically or politically or militarily ever again.


Any assets seized that belongs to Putin and his cronies. The U.S. and EU can help financed the rebuilding to make up for needing more money like stocks, dividends and bonds, etc.


----------



## reflecthofgeismar

Orca16 said:


> Where are you seeing these videos?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501169985179238403


----------



## Oldman1

thetutle said:


> Do you realise what this means? US is actively arming a country at war with Russia, and doing it openly. With startegic weapons.
> 
> Ukraine will not fall. US has decided this. Naturally poles are too scared to send the planes over for fear of getting bombed, but US of A fears noone. Bring it on.


LOL! I mean you have anti tank missiles that Ukraine doesn't usually make so the Russians ARE NOT that stupid.


----------



## V. Makarov

Iñigo said:


> The video I have seen was Ukrainian
> 
> I've seen a handful of videos, and so far the ones I've seen were Ukrainians killing civilians.


Oh! So they were Ukrainians who may have commandeered the Russian BMP to kill their own civilians in order to damage the excellent reputation the Russians have when invading neighbouring countries throughout history? Silly me.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501326106267426821

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1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501322504341655552
Russian default now imminent

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## Hamartia Antidote

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500853652671860739
> Carnage!



Not a good idea by Putin. It is pretty hard to tell the difference between a Moscovite and a suicidal Ukrainian. He's going to have to live the rest of his life behind a wall.

Well looks like he's been minimizing his trips anyway lately so maybe no big deal.









List of international presidential trips made by Vladimir Putin - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501240098356183046


----------



## Madni Bappa

Oldman1 said:


> Russia keeps sending arms to Ukraine.


----------



## reflecthofgeismar

LeGenD said:


> I recall some members in this thread who were trying to convey how humanitarian Russians are - that they are trying their best to not harm civilians.
> 
> I pointed out that all should wait for the war to prolong and more information to surface. Numerous atrocities will come to light in time.
> 
> This is WAR, kids. Russian army is not in Ukraine to give flowers to Ukrainians.



So funny how some people think one side consists of white knights vs orcs or so.
War is sadly deep in the human DNA because in the end we are only the most sophisticated mammals and will do what happens every day in nature.
Especially ugly it will get when completely different ideologies are fighting with each other.
NS-Germany/USSR
Americans/Muslims
etc.
Then you could talk about who started the war, what were the motives etc. but in the end, there are no really THE good or THE bad guys.
Open eyes, sadly in this forum are too many with "white/black" view on certain themes.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Oldman1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501274356881764355
You hear that? Poland says do what they just did.


----------



## gambit

jhungary said:


> There were this rumor that one part of the Davis Monahan Air Base (309th AMRG, otherwise known as "The Boneyard") have a section reserved for ex-Soviet Aircraft the US collected (Buy/Steal/Capture) from around the world and the sole intention for that is to supply those to Former Soviet Republic to fight a US backed revolution.
> 
> Not sure if they are still doing it tho, I am not sure if this is indeed real actually, but this is the rumor I have heard back when I was in the Military....
> 
> Maybe @gambit have more idead as an Airforce guy? I don't know


It is true that after the collapse of the Soviet Union, we bought several MIG and Su from the former Soviet satellites because they needed cash to survive.

Every branch of the US military have its own version of 'foreign technology exploitation' office. The Air Force office was at Wright-Patterson AFB, now merged to other sections. We got the MIG and Su jets out in Area 52...I mean...Area 51...for testing purposes, but nothing more. We learned much and the particular impressive parts was the aerodynamics of the Soviet era designs. The Soviets had great aerodynamicists, but not too good avionics engineers, though.

However...There are some MIG and Su jets in private hands.









U.S. Air Force awards $6.4 billion for private adversary training - AeroTime


The Pentagon announced that seven contractors would be awarded $6.4 billion in contracts to provide realistic training, known as adversary air services (ADAIR), to the US Air Force. The panel of companies will offer a diversified fleet of aircraft. Air USA, Airborne Tactical Advantage Company...




www.aerotime.aero





For example, the company Air USA operates at least three Mikoyan MiG-29s bought from Kyrgyzstan. On December 10, 2010, they flew their first private MiG-29 in the United States.​​The USAF contracted these guys for 'Red Air' along with our own Aggressors Squadron.


----------



## Madni Bappa

LeGenD said:


> I recall some members in this thread who were trying to convey how humanitarian Russians are - that they are trying their best to not harm civilians.
> 
> I pointed out that all should wait for the war to prolong and more information to surface. Numerous atrocities will come to light in time.
> 
> This is WAR, kids. Russian army is not in Ukraine to give flowers to Ukrainians.


The guy didn't provide any video just words


----------



## Oldman1

gambit said:


> It is true that after the collapse of the Soviet Union, we bought several MIG and Su from the former Soviet satellites because they needed cash to survive.
> 
> Every branch of the US military have its own version of 'foreign technology exploitation' office. The Air Force office was at Wright-Patterson AFB, now merged to other sections. We got the MIG and Su jets out in Area 52...I mean...Area 51...for testing purposes, but nothing more. We learned much and the particular impressive parts was the aerodynamics of the Soviet era designs. The Soviets had great aerodynamicists, but not too good avionics engineers, though.
> 
> However...There are some MIG and Su jets in private hands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. Air Force awards $6.4 billion for private adversary training - AeroTime
> 
> 
> The Pentagon announced that seven contractors would be awarded $6.4 billion in contracts to provide realistic training, known as adversary air services (ADAIR), to the US Air Force. The panel of companies will offer a diversified fleet of aircraft. Air USA, Airborne Tactical Advantage Company...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aerotime.aero
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For example, the company Air USA operates at least three Mikoyan MiG-29s bought from Kyrgyzstan. On December 10, 2010, they flew their first private MiG-29 in the United States.​​The USAF contracted these guys for 'Red Air' along with our own Aggressors Squadron.


Hmm...maybe we can persuade them to part ways with it, like a couple of F-16s in Russian colors. Been done before.


----------



## Madni Bappa

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501326106267426821


Chechen language sounds like a cross between a turkman dialect and slavic languages.


----------



## Iñigo

reflecthofgeismar said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501169985179238403



Date and location

"shows" (!?) What


----------



## Madni Bappa

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501322504341655552
> Russian default now imminent


Taliban surrender was imminent 6 months ago at hands of panjsher Ahmed Shah Mehsud 2.0

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## LeGenD

Iñigo said:


> The video I have seen was Ukrainian
> 
> I've seen a handful of videos, and so far the ones I've seen were Ukrainians killing civilians.


*FYI*









Russia ‘deliberately’ killing civilians as ‘cluster bomb’ attack left 47 dead


VLADIMIR Putin’s forces were accused of deliberately killing Ukrainian civilians today after 47 people died in one attack allegedly using deadly cluster bombs. Elsewhere Russia launched a ter…




www.the-sun.com













27 civilians killed in Russian attacks on Kharkiv, Ukraine


At least 170 civilians, including 5 children, killed in Kharkiv amid war with Russia, says local police official - Anadolu Agency




www.aa.com.tr













Russia-Ukraine war: 21 killed in Sumy; Moscow calls ceasefire in 5 cities


Ukraine begins evacuating civilians from the northeastern city of Sumy under a deal with Moscow to set up humanitarian corridors out of cities besieged by Russian forces.




www.livemint.com

















Madni Bappa said:


> The guy didn't provide any video just words


See above.

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Oldman1

gambit said:


> It is true that after the collapse of the Soviet Union, we bought several MIG and Su from the former Soviet satellites because they needed cash to survive.
> 
> Every branch of the US military have its own version of 'foreign technology exploitation' office. The Air Force office was at Wright-Patterson AFB, now merged to other sections. We got the MIG and Su jets out in Area 52...I mean...Area 51...for testing purposes,


Is it true? Is there such thing as Area 7?


----------



## Elvin

Type59 said:


> Nuclear deterrence. Why should Russia remain conventional. People are getting giddy in UK and USA.



Yep, the USA hasn’t been in a real war since Vietnam, many think bombers can roma and fly freely in the skies like they did in Iraq and Afghanistan. Btw, I haven’t seen reports of Russia deploying the S-400 on the battle lines, no idea why.


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501330228043337729


----------



## Patriot forever

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501321918468829191
Nuland is the same women that was involved in regime change in Ukraine. It was not propaganda after all. Biolabs exists and were involved in biological weapons.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501323020723392512


----------



## gambit

Oldman1 said:


> Is it true? Is there such thing as Area 7?


I have *NEVER* said anything on this forum that may jeopardize our state secrets. Am not one to say anything about UFOs and such, but there are a lot of strange sh!7 going on out in the desert past Las Vegas.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hamartia Antidote

official statement from the Polish government website








Statement of the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Poland in connection with the statement by the US Secretary of State on providing airplanes to Ukraine - Ministry of Foreign Affairs Republic of Poland - Gov.pl website







www.gov.pl




Statement of the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Poland in connection with the statement by the US Secretary of State on providing airplanes to Ukraine​
The authorities of the Republic of Poland, after consultations between the President and the Government, are ready to deploy – immediately and free of charge – all their MIG-29 jets to the Ramstein Air Base and place them at the disposal of the Government of the United States of America. 

At the same time, Poland requests the United States to provide us with used aircraft with corresponding operational capabilities. Poland is ready to immediately establish the conditions of purchase of the planes. 

The Polish Government also requests other NATO Allies – owners of MIG-29 jets – to act in the same vein.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Oldman1

Elvin said:


> Yep, the USA hasn’t been in a real war since Vietnam, many think bombers can roma and fly freely in the skies like they did in Iraq and Afghanistan. Btw, I haven’t seen reports of Russia deploying the S-400 on the battle lines, no idea why.


Desert Storm don't count? Russian tactics? Massive SAMs?


----------



## Wood

The Rise, Fall and Resurrection of Zelensky!

Reactions: Love Love:
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## LeGenD

Iñigo said:


> This thread about the Ukrainian war is the living example of reality: if a message bothers the Master, he erases it with his imperial power, and the same thing happens in reality but with whole countries



You are TROLLING and will be booted from this thread.

Have a good look at my post:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


It is true that after the collapse of the Soviet Union, we bought several MIG and Su from the former Soviet satellites because they needed cash to survive. Every branch of the US military have its own version of 'foreign technology exploitation' office. The Air Force office was at...



defence.pk





Do not like The Sun, fine? but to dismiss the entire post? People like you are part of the problem.

Post sensibly and nothing will happen.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## lightning F57

Hamartia Antidote said:


> official statement from the Polish government website
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statement of the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Poland in connection with the statement by the US Secretary of State on providing airplanes to Ukraine - Ministry of Foreign Affairs Republic of Poland - Gov.pl website
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gov.pl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statement of the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Poland in connection with the statement by the US Secretary of State on providing airplanes to Ukraine​
> The authorities of the Republic of Poland, after consultations between the President and the Government, are ready to deploy – immediately and free of charge – all their MIG-29 jets to the Ramstein Air Base and place them at the disposal of the Government of the United States of America.
> 
> At the same time, Poland requests the United States to provide us with used aircraft with corresponding operational capabilities. Poland is ready to immediately establish the conditions of purchase of the planes.
> 
> The Polish Government also requests other NATO Allies – owners of MIG-29 jets – to act in the same vein.



What I dont understand is, if they send them over to Ukraine good chance they will be destroyed, but launching attacks from Poland or other surrounding countries will give the Russians the excuse to launch strikes at airbases there. Could turn messy.


----------



## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501329902930468874

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Oldman1

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501329902930468874


You sure they didn't mistake it for scam call message?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501333861451501573

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501322317557018624

Reactions: Like Like:
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## LeGenD

Elvin said:


> Yep, the USA hasn’t been in a real war since Vietnam, many think bombers can roma and fly freely in the skies like they did in Iraq and Afghanistan. Btw, I haven’t seen reports of Russia deploying the S-400 on the battle lines, no idea why.



US - Iraq War lasted much longer (1991 - 2011) and is one of the most destructive to have been fought in the Middle East. This war produced substantial cascading effects in the region* and claimed millions of lives in the process.

*_ISIS movement was unexpected byproduct of this war. NATO had to launch a new military operation to defeat ISIS in response (2014 - 2020)_.

Russia has deployed an S-400 system in Belarus. It was used to engage Ukrainian jet fighters.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501138557829890050

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Solidify

Ukraine vs Afghan Conflict similarities & differences Version 2 0
watch

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## lightning F57

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501138557829890050



The irony is they produce along with Ukraine a large portion of the worlds wheat. This conflict will affect that world wide.


----------



## Elias MC

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501333861451501573

Reactions: Like Like:
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## BHAN85

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501303979153711108
> Ukraine now receiving their German antitank weapons


I wonder how those weapons can enter in Ukraine in war time.
doesnt have spy satellites Russia? 

It should be easy monitor the very few people who enters in Ukraine right now.

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## CIA Mole

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501333050248081417

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## RescueRanger

Update on the supply of the fighter jets to Ukraine:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501334216851828737

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## Madni Bappa

Solidify said:


> Ukraine vs Afghan Conflict similarities & differences Version 2 0
> watch


Sir nice attempt to become Haqeeqat TV

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## RescueRanger

BHAN85 said:


> I wonder how those weapons can enter in Ukraine in war time.
> doesnt have spy satellites Russia?
> 
> It should be easy monitor the very few people who enters in Ukraine right now.


Aircraft carry them to Poland and they enter Ukraine via lviv. Simple 🙂


----------



## BHAN85

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501138557829890050


Here in Spain we have shortage of sunflower oil in supermarkets (Ukraine is the main supplier). And I guess that is only the begining.

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## Messerschmitt

RescueRanger said:


> Update on the supply of the fighter jets to Ukraine:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501334216851828737


You were a couple of seconds faster than me.

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## Elias MC

Elvin said:


> Yep, the USA hasn’t been in a real war since Vietnam, many think bombers can roma and fly freely in the skies like they did in Iraq and Afghanistan. Btw, I haven’t seen reports of Russia deploying the S-400 on the battle lines, no idea why.



Russian long-range anti-aircraft systems (S400, S300 V4) are operational in Crimea and Belarus and the range of both covers the whole of Ukraine

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## RescueRanger

Messerschmitt said:


> You were a couple of seconds faster than me.


😂


----------



## Oldman1

BHAN85 said:


> I wonder how those weapons can enter in Ukraine in war time.
> doesnt have spy satellites Russia?
> 
> It should be easy monitor the very few people who enters in Ukraine right now.


Have you looked at the map?





And you think monitoring a few people entering Ukraine is easy even though Russia doesn't have any forces there to implement such action. Thousands of volunteers are going through there. Not to mention more Ukrainians coming back in to fight.

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## BHAN85

RescueRanger said:


> Aircraft carry them to Poland and they enter Ukraine via lviv. Simple 🙂


Why Russia doesnt bomb the shipments in Ukraine land? They have fighters jets, cruise missiles...


----------



## LeGenD

RescueRanger said:


> Update on the supply of the fighter jets to Ukraine:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501334216851828737


Poland have more balls than Pentagon.









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Aren't these commercial drones just fodder for the weakest EW Countermeasure out there? If you use a transmitter of same frequency it will cause the drone to go all over the place.



defence.pk





😉

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## jamal18

Statement by Boris Johnson that Ukraine will not be allowed to join Nato. Similar statements from France and Germany. Could be the begining of the end of this war.

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## Hamartia Antidote

lightning F57 said:


> What I dont understand is, if they send them over to Ukraine good chance they will be destroyed, but launching attacks from Poland or other surrounding countries will give the Russians the excuse to launch strikes at airbases there. Could turn messy.



Well I'm guessing flying over Ukraine wont be their top priority.

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## thetutle

reflecthofgeismar said:


> So funny how some people think one side consists of white knights vs orcs or so.
> War is sadly deep in the human DNA because in the end we are only the most sophisticated mammals and will do what happens every day in nature.
> Especially ugly it will get when completely different ideologies are fighting with each other.
> NS-Germany/USSR
> Americans/Muslims
> etc.


Imperial germany vs Russia. 
Nazi germany vs russia
Democratic Germany vs Russia

I think im beginning to see some sort of pattern developing here.

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## Oldman1

jamal18 said:


> Statement by Boris Johnson that Ukraine will not be allowed to join Nato. Similar statements from France and Germany. Could be the begining of the end of this war.


Doubt it, I haven't read the statement, but I'm assuming it has to do with Ukraine asking to join NATO now, not later. If now, you know it's WW3.


----------



## thetutle

Madni Bappa said:


> Chechen language sounds like a cross between a turkman dialect and slavic languages.


I didnt hear a single slavic word


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501313109520175104


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501314062591877124

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## thetutle

Elvin said:


> Yep, the USA hasn’t been in a real war since Vietnam, many think bombers can roma and fly freely in the skies like they did in Iraq and Afghanistan. Btw, I haven’t seen reports of Russia deploying the S-400 on the battle lines, no idea why.


They dont want the whole world to see them getting taken out by a Turkish drone?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501341671115538433

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501340598976057345

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## Oldman1

thetutle said:


> They dont want the whole world to see them getting taken out by a Turkish drone?


It would have been good promotion.


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501340598976057345



I hope they take the long route around the warzone.


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501318874708553728

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## Solidify

Madni Bappa said:


> Sir nice attempt to become Haqeeqat TV


Seriously thank you for compliment, I am studying for a course & at the same time single handedly editing video's as time permits

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## RescueRanger

I’m sorry but I cannot help myself from posting this:

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## BHAN85

jamal18 said:


> Statement by Boris Johnson that Ukraine will not be allowed to join Nato. Similar statements from France and Germany. Could be the begining of the end of this war.


From a Western military point of view is a good thing see how Russia attacks their own military hardware like Poland MiG29. Because nobody knows better than Russia the weak points to attack them.

From a Western economic point of view, sanctions will go on even if war stop right now, so it doesnt matter stop the war now or later.

But it's hard say this in public, and "democratric" rulers have to pretend.


----------



## thetutle

Looks like Poland called the US bluff. noone has the courage to deliver the jets.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501344494184185860


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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501348009308794881

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## lightning F57

thetutle said:


> Looks like Poland called the US bluff. noone has the courage to deliver the jets.


Yes both dont want the Russian wrath. Supplying manpads and anti tank weapons is one thing, war planes something else

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501304537306517504
Get those Big Macs while you can!

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## Oldman1

lightning F57 said:


> Yes both dont want the Russian wrath. Supplying manpads and anti tank weapons is one thing, war planes something else


Not sure if it would be a problem. Russians supply the jets during Korean and Vietnam War as well as SAMs.


----------



## jhungary

Hamartia Antidote said:


> US spy chiefs say Putin is likely to escalate in Ukraine with no concern for civilian casualties
> 
> 
> The US intelligence community believes that Russian President Vladimir Putin views the conflict in Ukraine as a "war he cannot afford to lose," suggesting he is likely to escalate the conflict without any concern for the number of civilians killed, the US's top intelligence chiefs told Congress.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US spy chiefs say Putin is likely to escalate in Ukraine with no concern for civilian casualties​The US intelligence community believes that Russian President Vladimir Putin views the conflict in Ukraine as a "war he cannot afford to lose," suggesting he is likely to escalate the conflict without any concern for the number of civilians killed, the US's top intelligence chiefs told Congress.
> ​


That has been done since last week, I mean what else can they do? Destroy an Apartment twice?

LOL

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## Hamartia Antidote

jhungary said:


> That has been done since last week, I mean what else can they do? Destroy an Apartment twice?
> 
> LOL



Well he can bring in the Tu-95's or the TU-160s and start carpet bombing.


----------



## jamal18

thetutle said:


> Imperial germany vs Russia.
> Nazi germany vs russia
> Democratic Germany vs Russia
> 
> I think im beginning to see some sort of pattern developing here.


The West is telling Germany to re-arm, and regard Russia as it's main enemy.

It didn't end too well the last time...


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Looks like Poland called the US bluff. noone has the courage to deliver the jets.


Think The Ukrainian said they are going to Poland to pick it up.

But the thing is, any fighter flew from NATO country to Ukraine may trigger Russian response. (Whether or not they will attack Poland or Germany or anyone is another question) So the aircraft would most likely to be delivered in truck and assemble in Ukraine.

That is probably why they are headed to Germany, I don't think Poland have the facilities to take down the plane.



Hamartia Antidote said:


> Well he can bring in the TU-160s.


That's still the same, as they are already engaging Civilian Area. You cannot destroy a Civic center twice....

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## Hamartia Antidote

jhungary said:


> That's still the same, as they are already engaging Civilian Area. You cannot destroy a Civic center twice....



Let's take a looky at Syria...


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Oldman1 said:


> Desert Storm don't count? Russian tactics? Massive SAMs?


Vietnam is the appropriate comparison since they used a full Russian system. Iraq had French data networks.

Vietnam shot down 3700+ fixed wing planes over 10 years. 3 planes a day.


----------



## Oldman1

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Vietnam is the appropriate comparison since they used a full Russian system. Iraq had French data networks.
> 
> Vietnam shot down 3700+ fixed wing planes over 10 years. 3 planes a day.


Losing 75 aircraft is nothing to sneeze at either during Desert Storm.


----------



## jhungary

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Let's take a looky at Syria...


I know, I am not discussing how Russia will be able to do it, I am saying the end result is the same. 

City centre will be destroyed whether or not they send in Tu-95 or Tu-160 or just by Grad and 155 howitzer. Saying they will destroy them faster or more throughout does not alter the cards that's are already on the table.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Oldman1 said:


> Losing 75 aircraft is nothing to sneeze at either during Desert Storm.


OK. Let's compare. Desert Storm air campaign was 1 week, 75 coalition planes lost. 52 fixed wing, 23 helicopters.

This is week 2 of Russian campaign. Ukraine claims 44 fixed wing and 48 helicopters downed.

So Russia is losing less fixed wing planes per week and equal helicopters per week compared to US led coalition did in Desert Storm by *Ukrainian* claims.


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

FairAndUnbiased said:


> *V**ietnam shot down 3700+ fixed wing planes* over 10 years. 3 planes a day.



No, please list your source.









List of aircraft losses of the Vietnam War - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




All told, the U.S. Air Force flew 5.25 million sorties over South Vietnam, North Vietnam, northern and southern Laos, and Cambodia, losing 2,251 aircraft: *1,737 to hostile action*, and 514 in accidents. 2,197 of the losses were fixed-wing, and the remainder rotary-wing


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Hamartia Antidote said:


> No
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List of aircraft losses of the Vietnam War - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All told, the U.S. Air Force flew 5.25 million sorties over South Vietnam, North Vietnam, northern and southern Laos, and Cambodia, losing 2,251 aircraft: 1,737 to hostile action, and 514 in accidents. 2,197 of the losses were fixed-wing, and the remainder rotary-wing


See line 4 of your link:


> In total, the United States military lost in Vietnam almost 10,000 aircraft, helicopters and UAVs (3,744 planes,[3] 5,607 helicopters[2] and 578 UAVs[1] ).


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

FairAndUnbiased said:


> See line 4 of your link:



Ah yes my mistake that was only air force losses.

Actually it says
"In total, the U.S. lost *3,374 *fixed wing aircraft *in combat* during the war; in both North and South Vietnam"


----------



## Wood

jhungary said:


> Think The Ukrainian said they are going to Poland to pick it up.
> 
> But the thing is, any fighter flew from NATO country to Ukraine may trigger Russian response. (Whether or not they will attack Poland or Germany or anyone is another question) So the aircraft would most likely to be delivered in truck and assemble in Ukraine.
> 
> That is probably why they are headed to Germany, I don't think Poland have the facilities to take down the plane.
> 
> 
> That's still the same, as they are already engaging Civilian Area. You cannot destroy a Civic center twice....


I was also thinking that the aircrafts have to be disassembled and reassembled. But what is the practical feasibility for this in such a war? In a week from now, Russia could have air dominance and seize all run ways. Would the Ukranians be able to put the aircraft together by themselves before the Russians can pummel them? Would they even know how to do it? This is not IKEA furniture afterall


----------



## Oldman1

FairAndUnbiased said:


> OK. Let's compare. Desert Storm air campaign was 1 week, 75 coalition planes lost. 52 fixed wing, 23 helicopters.
> 
> This is week 2 of Russian campaign. Ukraine claims 44 fixed wing and 48 helicopters downed.
> 
> So Russia is losing less fixed wing planes per week and equal helicopters per week compared to US led coalition did in Desert Storm by *Ukrainian* claims.


Have you not seen how formidable Iraq's SAMs and other air defense systems were?

You don't see this crap in Ukraine.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Ah yes my mistake that was only air force losses.


no problem. the reality is that Russian losses going by historical precedent aren't all that bad. The real problem is that they're on a clock.


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## Wood

Covert Cabals take on the Russian campaign so far

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## FairAndUnbiased

Oldman1 said:


> Have you not seen how formidable Iraq's SAMs and other air defense systems were?
> 
> You don't see this crap in Ukraine.


That's anti air gun tracer rounds. After rocket motor flameout I don't think you can see a SAM anymore.


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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501344494184185860



I have hard time believing this but would be interesting to see how they will do that nonetheless


----------



## Oldman1

FairAndUnbiased said:


> That's anti air gun tracer rounds. After rocket motor flameout I don't think you can see a SAM anymore.


Yes anti air guns, we lost aircraft to that. You don't see anything like that in Ukraine. Not to mention multiple SAMs firing at the aircraft, famous one was the F-16 with 6 SAM missiles fired at it and able to dodged them.


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## Elias MC

Oldman1 said:


> Have you not seen how formidable Iraq's SAMs and other air defense systems were?
> 
> You don't see this crap in Ukraine.

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## Oldman1

Elias MC said:


>


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501359659118219272

Yikes Russia

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## Microsoft



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## RescueRanger

It was at this exact moment Nuland knew… She F****d up!

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## Meengla

Wood said:


> Both US and EU want to give him an off ramp. But will the autocrat be able to keep his position in the throne after taking a face saving exit? Will he not fear the sharks around him?
> 
> Time will tell



He's an autocrat for sure. There is no Nancy Pelosi or General Milley to stop him unlike Trump was supposed to be stopped. And that makes Putin extremely dangerous. WTH can the West do if Putin really activates his nukes and put them on trigger alert??? I don't know why people are missing that?? 
A 'face saving exit' is the least Putin needs. Those like @thetutle sitting in a VERY far off country willing to say, as he said above, that Europe is willing to take a chance are too comfortable in their own remote environments to realize what might happen. 

Here in a map as I keep saying, Pakistan is ONLY one country from Europe, depending on your definition of Europe and radiation doesn't know geographical boundaries! Pakistan is closer to Europe than Ireland! Much more!

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## Oldman1

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501359659118219272
> 
> Yikes Russia


Thats surprising, I saw some videos showing building damage, but I assumed they hit the runways as well, but the people recording probably couldn't access the runways so couldn't show the possible damage.

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## 8888888888888

FuturePAF said:


> Kyiv Is probably about to be leveled in a massive artillery barrage over the course of the next few days. The world didn’t stop the Russians in Grozny and Allepo, and now this has come to Kyiv.


Russian tactics doesn’t allow them to attack cities until it’s encircled which they are attempting to do to Kiev.


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## F-22Raptor

Oldman1 said:


> Thats surprising, I saw some videos showing building damage, but I assumed they hit the runways as well, but the people recording probably couldn't access the runways so couldn't show the possible damage.


 

I can’t tell if we’ve just grossly overestimated Russian capabilities or the US is royally screwing with Russian targeting capability. This is not the first time this has happened. It also occurred with their Iskanders


----------



## Oldman1

F-22Raptor said:


> I can’t tell if we’ve just grossly overestimated Russian capabilities or the US is royally screwing with Russian targeting capability. This is not the first time this has happened. It also occurred with their Iskanders


Don't think so. Could just be the guidance problems, not to mention didn't want to waste their precious and scarce missiles to try to destroy the whole airport. Just like targeting an airbase with only 6 missiles.

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## dbc

FairAndUnbiased said:


> OK. Let's compare. Desert Storm air campaign was 1 week, 75 coalition planes lost. 52 fixed wing, 23 helicopters.



Apples and watermelons..In 1991, most allied fighters had chaff and flare for self defense, no self protection suite, no towed decoy , no missile approach warning..

The Iraqis had hundreds of batteries of Russian and European SAMS - Ukraine does not. In 1991 Iraq had IADS on a fiber optic backbone, Ukraine does not.





__





Iraqi Air Defense - Introduction







www.globalsecurity.org

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## Microsoft

Zelensky: Please give me a no fly zone, please give me more weapons, please stop buying Russian oil and gas
European officials: Best we can do is give you a standing ovation
Zelensky:

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## Flight of falcon

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501359659118219272
> 
> Yikes Russia


ever crossed your mind that may be they want to save the runway for their own use in the near future?

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## FairAndUnbiased

Oldman1 said:


> Thats surprising, I saw some videos showing building damage, but I assumed they hit the runways as well, but the people recording probably couldn't access the runways so couldn't show the possible damage.



@F-22Raptor

Cruise missiles are used for hitting buildings. the Tomahawk strike on Syria in 2017 also did not damage the runways.



> U.S. Central Command stated in a press release that Tomahawk missiles hit *"aircraft, hardened aircraft shelters, petroleum and logistical storage, ammunition supply bunkers, defense systems, and radars".*[30] Initial U.S. reports claimed "approximately 20 planes" were destroyed, and that 58 out of the 59 cruise missiles launched "severely degraded or destroyed" their intended target.[31][32]* According to the satellite images the runways[33] and the taxiways have been reportedly undamaged* and combat flights from the attacked airbase resumed on 7 April a few hours after the attack, although U.S. officials did not state that the runway was a target.[34][35] In a later statement on 10 April 2017, the US Secretary of Defense James Mattis claimed that the strike destroyed about 20% of the Syrian government's operational aircraft and the base had lost the ability to refuel or rearm aircraft.[36]

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## Type59

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501359659118219272
> 
> Yikes Russia


Does not make sense to use CM to hit runaway. Btw runaway is easier to repair versus buildings.


----------



## RescueRanger

They need to retire Biden to the glue factory;


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501353751403065345

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## PakAlp

Looks like the operation has stalled on the East and South. It was expected the rebels on the east would make great advances. Kiev is nearly surrounded.


----------



## Saho

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501297383258394624
> 
> How the Russians feel about losing McDonalds


I’m trying to wrap my head ans figure out what Russia’s long term in this. They’ve been cut off from the world completely so what will they do when they capture Ukraine and succeed installing a Russian friendly government? How are they going to convince the world to lift sanctions?

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## retaxis

Mongols like to surround a city or army and give them one way out. When they take that one way out they kill them while they are running away rather than fighting like cornered beats. Russia likes this strategy as well.

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## 8888888888888

reflecthofgeismar said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501169985179238403


That's what happens when you give arms to civilians, it gives the enemy an excuse to shot.



Oldman1 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501274356881764355
> You hear that? Poland says do what they just did.


By giving the planes to US without asking them first ?


----------



## PK784

The de-facto leaders of Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates have declined to arrange calls with US president Joe Biden in recent weeks as the US and it allies have sought to contain a surge in energy prices caused by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

According to the Wall Street Journal, citing Middle East and US officials, both Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and the UAE’s Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed al Nahyan have been unavailable to Biden after US requests were made for discussions.


“There was some expectation of a phone call, but it didn’t happen,“ a US official said of a plan for Saudi Prince Mohammed and Biden to speak. “It was part of turning on the spigot [of Saudi oil].”

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Oldman1 said:


> Not sure if it would be a problem. Russians supply the jets during Korean and Vietnam War as well as SAMs.



Soviet Union provided SAMs and fighter jets to North Vietnam govt, while the US supported the South Vietnam. So both powers were propping up different entities in Vietnam; however, the conflict wasn't an existential threat to either US or Soviet Union. Russia views the NATO involvement in Ukraine as an *existential threat*. Therefore, any escalation from NATO side in Russia - Ukraine conflict has the potential of triggering an Armageddon.

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## gambit

Flight of falcon said:


> ever crossed your mind that may be they want to save the runway for their own use in the near future?


No. The craters indicate the attack was runway denial. Two on the flightline ramp. Two on the taxiway. Two on the runway. The attack failed.


----------



## Flight of falcon

PK784 said:


> The de-facto leaders of Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates have declined to arrange calls with US president Joe Biden in recent weeks as the US and it allies have sought to contain a surge in energy prices caused by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> According to the Wall Street Journal, citing Middle East and US officials, both Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and the UAE’s Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed al Nahyan have been unavailable to Biden after US requests were made for discussions.
> 
> 
> “There was some expectation of a phone call, but it didn’t happen,“ a US official said of a plan for Saudi Prince Mohammed and Biden to speak. “It was part of turning on the spigot [of Saudi oil].”




They should beg Iran …. Suits them .

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## kingQamaR

Saho said:


> I’m trying to wrap my head ans figure out what Russia’s long term in this. They’ve been cut off from the world completely so what will they do when they capture Ukraine and succeed installing a Russian friendly government? How are they going to convince the world to lift sanctions?



I think Putin called west bluff thinking it would be giving up to him, what I think caught Russia Washington London by surprise is Ukrainian fierce resistance caught them all out. did USA not offer Ukraine Pm a helicopter ride out he declined it demanding guns and arms. I don’t honestly west cares before now probably thru real security threats they’ve hit Putin with sanctions on everyone every thing that is connected to Russia. No puppet government from Moscow will ever be able to survive in Ukraine with 44 million people against it. Neither will Putins Russia diplomatically and economically now frozen with sanctions move on looks like a stalemate to me for all of sides. only hope is for the Russians to deal with Putin when there living standards falls pre communism time and that is not that far off. he’s wrecked his country ignore his cheer leaders on here. Ukraine have successfully made the world recognised them as a sovereign state something that has never happened before all thanks to Putins miscalculation

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## Microsoft

Flight of falcon said:


> They should beg Iran …. Suits them .



Wrong they should just restart American oil production and open up pipelines with Canada. This left wing administration has gone full ape on energy blinded by their hate for anything remotely related to Trump.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

dbc said:


> Apples and watermelons..In 1991, most allied fighters had chaff and flare for self defense, no self protection suite, no towed decoy , no missile approach warning..
> 
> The Iraqis had hundreds of batteries of Russian and European SAMS - Ukraine does not. In 1991 Iraq had IADS on a fiber optic backbone, Ukraine does not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iraqi Air Defense - Introduction
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.globalsecurity.org



Ukraine had countless S-300s. The Iraqis didn't have such weapons.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501304127552471042


----------



## xuxu1457



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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501325953477214210

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## AZMwi

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501241385936109578


so its true than. the ukrainians are using civilian areas for military purposes and when russians strike these targets the westerners start ranting about russian committing war crimes

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501293834428424194


----------



## gambit

jhungary said:


> Think The Ukrainian said they are going to Poland to pick it up.
> 
> But the thing is, *any fighter flew from NATO country to Ukraine may trigger Russian response.* (Whether or not they will attack Poland or Germany or anyone is another question) So the aircraft would most likely to be delivered in truck and assemble in Ukraine.
> 
> That is probably why they are headed to Germany, I don't think Poland have the facilities to take down the plane.
> 
> 
> That's still the same, as they are already engaging Civilian Area. You cannot destroy a Civic center twice....


This is where it gets *LEGALLY* dicey.

Convention (V) respecting the Rights and Duties of Neutral Powers and Persons in Case of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907.

CHAPTER I​​THE RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF NEUTRAL POWERS​​*Article 1. The territory of neutral Powers is inviolable.*​​Art. 2. Belligerents are forbidden to move troops or convoys of either munitions of war or supplies across the territory of a neutral Power.​​Art. 3. Belligerents are likewise forbidden to:​(a) Erect on the territory of a neutral Power a wireless telegraphy station or other apparatus forthe purpose of communicating with belligerent forces on land or sea;​(b) Use any installation of this kind established by them before the war on the territory of a neutral Power for purely military purposes, and which has not been opened for the service of public messages.​​Art. 4. Corps of combatants cannot be formed nor recruiting agencies opened on the territory of a neutral Power to assist the belligerents.​​Art. 5. A neutral Power must not allow any of the acts referred to in Articles 2 to 4 to occur on its territory. It is not called upon to punish acts in violation of its neutrality unless the said acts have been committed on its own territory.​​*Art. 6. The responsibility of a neutral Power is not engaged by the fact of persons crossing the frontier separately to offer their services to one of the belligerents.*​​*Art. 7. A neutral Power is not called upon to prevent the export or transport, on behalf of one or other of the belligerents, of arms, munitions of war, or, in general, of anything which can be of use to an army or a fleet.*​​Art. 8. A neutral Power is not called upon to forbid or restrict the use on behalf of the belligerents of telegraph or telephone cables or of wireless telegraphy apparatus belonging to it or to companies or private individuals.​​Art. 9. Every measure of restriction or prohibition taken by a neutral Power in regard to the matters referred to in Articles 7 and 8 must be impartially applied by it to both belligerents. A neutral Power must see to the same obligation being observed by companies or private individuals owning telegraph or telephone cables or wireless telegraphy apparatus.​​Art. 10. The fact of a neutral Power resisting, even by force, attempts to violate its neutrality cannot be regarded as a hostile act.​​*Art. 6.* If Ukrainian pilots go to any other country to pick up arms, that is allowed. Article 1 remains valid.

*Art. 7.* Here is where it gets legally questionable. Who is doing the transport?

If I am moving arms for a belligerent thru the neutral power's territory, I am only passing thru *PEACEFULLY*. The neutral power have no legal obligation to stop me. Article 1 remains valid.

But it is Poland who is moving arms, the MIGs. Not just anyone's but *POLAND'S OWN MIGS*, putting Poland close to being a co-belligerent, aka ally of Ukraine. Article 1 is now at risk.

I think this is why Poland proposed Germany so that articles 6 and 7 will apply to Germany. The problem now is the US with the objection from the Pentagon because the proposal involves Ramstein, a military installation that hosts the USAF. An alternate solution is to use a German civilian airport and cordoned off an area to make the jet transfer.

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## Madni Bappa

Oldman1 said:


> You sure they didn't mistake it for scam call message?


We are calling you about your car's extended warranty.

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## Clutch

xuxu1457 said:


> View attachment 822127



Looks like a White on White Christian bloodshed... Let them take each other out...

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## Clutch




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## dbc

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Ukraine had countless S-300s.



countless? 
Only 6 batteries of which 4 were assessed to be in working order in 2014.




__





Украинская рулетка: 20-летние С-300 попадают в цель один раз из четырех | Ракетная техника


Украина обречена защищаться от потенциального воздушного противника советскими зенитно-ракетными комплексами С-300, возраст основной части которых составляет более 20 лет, сообщается в сюжете




missilery.info

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## LeGenD

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Ukraine had countless S-300s. The Iraqis didn't have such weapons.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501304127552471042


Countless?

_On paper, the force isn’t insignificant. The Ukrainian army possesses nearly 100 SAM launchers, including a few long-range S-300s, six short-range Tor-Ms and 75 or more Strela-10s, Osa-AKMs and Tunguskas for point-defense. Some army formations travel with Igla shoulder-fired SAMs and ZU-23 air-defense guns._









Kiev’s Missiles Are All That Stand Between The Russian Air Force And Control Of Ukraine’s Skies


If and when the Russians cross the border, it might be up to Ukraine’s ground-based air-defenses—alone—to fight back against Moscow’s warplanes.




www.forbes.com





- - - - 

Iraqi air defense system was integrated and extensive in 1991 with hundreds of radar systems, hundreds of SAM systems, and thousands of AAA systems in the mix. Iraqi SAM systems were SA-2, SA-3, SA-6, SA-7, SA-8, SA-9, SA-13 , SA-14, Roland and I-HAWK respectively. SA-2 and SA-3 could be used to engage jet fighters at impressive altitudes in particular. Iraqi air defense system claimed dozens of Coalition aircraft in the war.

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## 8888888888888

Clutch said:


>


Video has no clue on why Russia has invaded in the first place.

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## Indian Libertarian

8888888888888 said:


> Video has no clue on why Russia has invaded in the first place.


These videos are pretty good:


----------



## Clutch

Russian Armed Forces Destroy Almost 2,600 Ukrainian Military Facilities, MoD Says
11 hours ago

Donetsk People's Republic forces' serviceman at a checkpoint in the vicinity of Mariupol. - Sputnik International, 1920, 08.03.2022
© Sputnik / Alexei Kudenko
/ Go to the photo bank
SubscribeGoogle news
The destroyed targets included elements of Ukraine's military infrastructure, such as command facilities and radar stations, and a wide assortment of military hardware.

As Russia's military operation in Ukraine continues, the Russian Ministry of Defence has released new figures about the damage inflicted upon Ukraine's military capability.

As Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov, spokesman for the Russian MoD, told media on Tuesday, Russian armed forces have destroyed 2581 military targets in Ukraine since the launch of the military operation on 24 February.

Said targets, Konashenkov said, include 90 command and control facilities and military communication centers, 123 air defense systems (S-300, Buk M-1 and Osa) and 81 radar stations.

He also stated that 897 Ukrainian tanks and other armored vehicles, 95 multiple launch rocket systems, 336 field artillery systems and mortars, as well as 662 special military vehicles and 84 UAVs have been destroyed by Russian forces.
On Tuesday, Russian combat aircraft have destroyed 32 military targets in Ukraine, including four control facilities, three radar stations, two fuel dumps and 23 "areas of concentration of armaments and military hardware".
Convention of Ukraine's Sluha Narodu party. - Sputnik International, 1920, 08.03.2022
Situation in Ukraine
Ukraine's Ruling Party Proposes New Security Guarantees Assuming Russian Recognition of Statehood
14 hours ago

In February, Russia formally recognised the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics (DPR and LPR respectively) and launched a military operation in Ukraine after DPR and LPR authorities asked for assistance to defend themselves from attacks by Ukrainian troops.
The Russian government stated that the operation's goal is to neutralise Ukraine's military capacity.

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## Madni Bappa

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501304537306517504
> Get those Big Macs while you can!


I was so excited to go back to Pakistan and actually try a halal one. It looked so horrible I gave it to my cousin. There's better burgers at Halal restaurants man.

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## F-22Raptor

2 weeks in, and most every major Ukrainian city still stands.


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## kingQamaR

AZMwi said:


> so its true than. the ukrainians are using civilian areas for military purposes and when russians strike these targets the westerners start ranting about russian committing war crimes



Stalingrad all over again

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## jamahir

LeGenD said:


> You need to provide evidence of this.



I see that the post for the tweet for AQ in Ukraine has been deleted.


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

U.S. general: Starlink in Ukraine showing what megaconstellations can do - SpaceNews


U.S. Space Command has been impressed by SpaceX’s ability to provide internet access in war-torn parts of Ukraine, the head of the command told lawmakers March 8.




spacenews.com




U.S. general: Starlink in Ukraine showing what megaconstellations can do​
_Dickinson: A proliferated architecture can provide 'redundancy and capability'_

U.S. Space Command has been impressed by SpaceX’s ability to provide internet access in war-torn parts of Ukraine, the head of the command told lawmakers March 8.

“What we’re seeing with Elon Musk and the Starlink capabilities is really showing us what a megaconstellation or a proliferated architecture can provide in terms of redundancy and capability,” Gen. James Dickinson, commander of U.S. Space Command, said during a hearing the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Dickinson’s comments were in response to questions from Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.), who noted that Starlink’s ability to deliver communications from space over Ukraine is “positive news” and also an example of “private actors in space entering into contested environments.”

“Russia has been trying to jam the signals and block coverage, and that’s made me wonder,” Kaine said. He asked Dickinson if there is a “legal framework” for U.S. commercial space companies that become involved in contested situations.

“We do look at that, senator,” said Dickinson. “We work very closely in our commercial integration cell on that very issue.”

The commercial integration cell, or CIC, is a group of 10 commercial satellite operators that work side-by-side with U.S. Space Command at Vandenberg Space Force Base, California. U.S. Strategic Command originally created the CIC to share intelligence about threats in space and other issues of concern given the military’s dependence on commercial space services.

The CIC includes Intelsat, SES Government Solutions, Inmarsat, Eutelsat, Maxar, Viasat, XTAR, SpaceX, Iridium Communications and Hughes Network Systems.

Starlink, with nearly 2,000 satellites in low Earth orbit, is by far the world’s largest commercial satellite constellation. SpaceX has permission to launch 12,000 satellites and is seeking approval to deploy 30,000 more.

SpaceX’s president Gwynne Shotwell said March 7 that the company had been working for weeks to secure approval for Starlink services in Ukraine before a government minister tweeted a request to Elon Musk.






Elon Musk videoconferencing with Ukrainian President despite jamming attempts.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501337662887759881
Interesting thread from chief investigative correspondent for yahoo news


----------



## Genghis khan1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501186294961082369

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## Iron Shrappenel

Madni Bappa said:


> I was so excited to go back to Pakistan and actually try a halal one. It looked so horrible I gave it to my cousin. There's better burgers at Halal restaurants man.


Agreed overpriced and tasteless....

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## Madni Bappa

F-22Raptor said:


> I can’t tell if we’ve just grossly overestimated Russian capabilities or the US is royally screwing with Russian targeting capability. This is not the first time this has happened. It also occurred with their Iskanders


Yeah America also has a secret brain chip in all Russian generals and Putin directing them to make all these mistakes 🤡


----------



## Madni Bappa

Flight of falcon said:


> ever crossed your mind that may be they want to save the runway for their own use in the near future?


----------



## 8888888888888

Indian Libertarian said:


> These videos are pretty good:


2nd vide has no clue in Russian tactics, 3rd video also has no clue why Russia invaded Ukraine.


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## Madni Bappa

People here acting like Russians can't make their own Burgers, soda or movies. 

Or find a way around it.



gambit said:


> This is where it gets *LEGALLY* dicey.
> 
> Convention (V) respecting the Rights and Duties of Neutral Powers and Persons in Case of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907.
> 
> CHAPTER I​​THE RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF NEUTRAL POWERS​​*Article 1. The territory of neutral Powers is inviolable.*​​Art. 2. Belligerents are forbidden to move troops or convoys of either munitions of war or supplies across the territory of a neutral Power.​​Art. 3. Belligerents are likewise forbidden to:​(a) Erect on the territory of a neutral Power a wireless telegraphy station or other apparatus forthe purpose of communicating with belligerent forces on land or sea;​(b) Use any installation of this kind established by them before the war on the territory of a neutral Power for purely military purposes, and which has not been opened for the service of public messages.​​Art. 4. Corps of combatants cannot be formed nor recruiting agencies opened on the territory of a neutral Power to assist the belligerents.​​Art. 5. A neutral Power must not allow any of the acts referred to in Articles 2 to 4 to occur on its territory. It is not called upon to punish acts in violation of its neutrality unless the said acts have been committed on its own territory.​​*Art. 6. The responsibility of a neutral Power is not engaged by the fact of persons crossing the frontier separately to offer their services to one of the belligerents.*​​*Art. 7. A neutral Power is not called upon to prevent the export or transport, on behalf of one or other of the belligerents, of arms, munitions of war, or, in general, of anything which can be of use to an army or a fleet.*​​Art. 8. A neutral Power is not called upon to forbid or restrict the use on behalf of the belligerents of telegraph or telephone cables or of wireless telegraphy apparatus belonging to it or to companies or private individuals.​​Art. 9. Every measure of restriction or prohibition taken by a neutral Power in regard to the matters referred to in Articles 7 and 8 must be impartially applied by it to both belligerents. A neutral Power must see to the same obligation being observed by companies or private individuals owning telegraph or telephone cables or wireless telegraphy apparatus.​​Art. 10. The fact of a neutral Power resisting, even by force, attempts to violate its neutrality cannot be regarded as a hostile act.​​*Art. 6.* If Ukrainian pilots go to any other country to pick up arms, that is allowed. Article 1 remains valid.
> 
> *Art. 7.* Here is where it gets legally questionable. Who is doing the transport?
> 
> If I am moving arms for a belligerent thru the neutral power's territory, I am only passing thru *PEACEFULLY*. The neutral power have no legal obligation to stop me. Article 1 remains valid.
> 
> But it is Poland who is moving arms, the MIGs. Not just anyone's but *POLAND'S OWN MIGS*, putting Poland close to being a co-belligerent, aka ally of Ukraine. Article 1 is now at risk.
> 
> I think this is why Poland proposed Germany so that articles 6 and 7 will apply to Germany. The problem now is the US with the objection from the Pentagon because the proposal involves Ramstein, a military installation that hosts the USAF. An alternate solution is to use a German civilian airport and cordoned off an area to make the jet transfer.


Meanwhile America can invade Hague if it tries to sue US troops

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501360272442896388

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## Madni Bappa

jamahir said:


> I see that the post for the tweet for AQ in Ukraine has been deleted.


He cleanses anything from the thread that goes against gora narrative.

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## Genghis khan1

8888888888888 said:


> 2nd vide has no clue in Russian tactics, 3rd video also has no clue why Russia invaded Ukraine.


First video is govt funded propaganda cuck.


----------



## cocomo

Hot potato.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501351279079174145

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## Madni Bappa

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501337662887759881
> Interesting thread from chief investigative correspondent for yahoo news


If only we had done same with countless stooges living in Switzerland. Especially that snake Hussain Haqqani.

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## Genghis khan1

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Yes, remember one of them was in Wuhan, China...but the Chinese won't admit they accidentally let it out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NIH acknowledges US funded gain-of-function at Wuhan lab, Sen. Rand Paul reacts
> 
> 
> "And there’s also been a cover up of this for over a year now. He should accept responsibility and immediately resign and step down from government,” Sen. Paul said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wbko.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a letter to Rep. James Comer, ranking member of the House Committee on Oversight and Reform, an NIH official admits that a “limited experiment” was conducted in order to test if “spike proteins from naturally occurring bat coronaviruses circulating in China were capable of binding to the human ace2 receptor in a mouse model.”


Chinese are basically stating, Don’t blame us when we start stockpiling Bioweapons.


----------



## Oldman1

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Soviet Union provided SAMs and fighter jets to North Vietnam govt, while the US supported the South Vietnam. So both powers were propping up different entities in Vietnam; however, the conflict wasn't an existential threat to either US or Soviet Union. Russia views the NATO involvement in Ukraine as an *existential threat*. Therefore, any escalation from NATO side in Russia - Ukraine conflict has the potential of triggering an Armageddon.


Russia can view it as an existential threat but having a puppet installed next to Poland might as view as an existential threat to NATO considering Belarus joined the invasion. Poland next? The Baltics? They are next to Russia or Belarus.


----------



## Gul_Khan_Peshawar

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Yes, remember one of them was in Wuhan, China...but the Chinese won't admit they accidentally let it out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NIH acknowledges US funded gain-of-function at Wuhan lab, Sen. Rand Paul reacts
> 
> 
> "And there’s also been a cover up of this for over a year now. He should accept responsibility and immediately resign and step down from government,” Sen. Paul said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wbko.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a letter to Rep. James Comer, ranking member of the House Committee on Oversight and Reform, an NIH official admits that a “limited experiment” was conducted in order to test if “spike proteins from naturally occurring bat coronaviruses circulating in China were capable of binding to the human ace2 receptor in a mouse model.”



Since US ran this program, it goes without saying that it has to be for the greater good of humanity. Just like all the wars, dropping nukes on Japan, toppling Egyption democratically elected government and ignoring dictators etc.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501429924497866754

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## kingQamaR

All fault of Putin for getting Ukrainians resistance badly wrong

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## HAIDER

Russians seems going according to the plan. Destroy Ukraine infrastructure, create refugee crisis in Europe, control coastline, bring extreme economic hardship those who left. Once Ukraine destroyed that will be massive liability for Europe and US to rebuilt this country and right now everyone is broke.

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## Oldman1

FairAndUnbiased said:


> @F-22Raptor
> 
> Cruise missiles are used for hitting buildings. the Tomahawk strike on Syria in 2017 also did not damage the runways.


Depends on the payload but also what their plan was. Cruise missiles can actually hit the runways besides buildings or ships. But in this case Russia didn't.


----------



## HAIDER

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501429924497866754


This volunteer things will create more chaos and hate. Dialogue is only solution. Ukraine will be weaponized lawless state.

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## Oldman1

8888888888888 said:


> That's what happens when you give arms to civilians, it gives the enemy an excuse to shot.
> 
> 
> By giving the planes to US without asking them first ?


Probably some confusion how they are going to deliver it. But Poland giving it to the U.S. instead of directly to Ukraine is treating the MiGs like hot potato.



HAIDER said:


> This volunteer things will create more chaos and hate. Dialogue is only solution.


Well Russia needs to do something quick because more anti tanks and volunteers are flowing in. And many of these guys are veterans and have training. Not something the Russian forces want to have to deal with long term...



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501429924497866754











A Korean YouTuber and former navy seal says he has arrived in Ukraine to fight, despite his government's travel ban to the country


"If I return alive, then I will take responsibility for everything and receive the punishment I'm given," Ken Rhee said amid a travel ban to Ukraine.




www.yahoo.com





A Korean YouTuber and former navy seal says he has arrived in Ukraine to fight, despite his government's travel ban to the country​

The South Korean YouTuber Ken Rhee says he is in Ukraine to fight, despite Korea's travel ban there.
Koreans who enter Ukraine without authorization may be subject to a jail sentence or a fine.
"If I return alive, then I will take responsibility for everything," Rhee said on Instagram.
Ken Rhee, a popular South Korean YouTuber and former Korean navy seal said he has landed in Ukraine to fight as a volunteer soldier — despite his government's travel ban to the country.

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## 8888888888888

Genghis khan1 said:


> First video is govt funded propaganda cuck.


No evidence of that


----------



## Indian Libertarian

Oldman1 said:


> Probably some confusion how they are going to deliver it. But Poland giving it to the U.S. instead of directly to Ukraine is treating the MiGs like hot potato.
> 
> 
> Well Russia needs to do something quick because more anti tanks and volunteers are flowing in. And many of these guys are veterans and have training. Not something the Russian forces want to have to deal with long term...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Korean YouTuber and former navy seal says he has arrived in Ukraine to fight, despite his government's travel ban to the country
> 
> 
> "If I return alive, then I will take responsibility for everything and receive the punishment I'm given," Ken Rhee said amid a travel ban to Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Korean YouTuber and former navy seal says he has arrived in Ukraine to fight, despite his government's travel ban to the country​
> 
> The South Korean YouTuber Ken Rhee says he is in Ukraine to fight, despite Korea's travel ban there.
> Koreans who enter Ukraine without authorization may be subject to a jail sentence or a fine.
> "If I return alive, then I will take responsibility for everything," Rhee said on Instagram.
> Ken Rhee, a popular South Korean YouTuber and former Korean navy seal said he has landed in Ukraine to fight as a volunteer soldier — despite his government's travel ban to the country.


What’s with all the foreign fighters? Are they trying to be the next ISIS? I thought mercenaries are not entitled to the same rights as combatants. Would not be good if they get captured

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## 8888888888888

Indian Libertarian said:


> What’s with all the foreign fighters? Are they trying to be the next ISIS? I thought mercenaries are not entitled to the same rights as combatants. Would not be good if they get captured


They actually believe that the Russian military is failing BS.


----------



## kingQamaR

HAIDER said:


> Russians seems going according to the plan. Destroy Ukraine infrastructure, create refugee crisis in Europe, control coastline, bring extreme economic hardship those who left. Once Ukraine destroyed that will be massive liability for Europe and US to rebuilt this country and right now everyone is broke.



These are war crimes my friend and it’s against his own very Slavic brothers who he was arguing he had launched this operations to liberate them from those nazis!

Please remember Europeans are not sitting back now they have replied back to with economically and not military they are going to bankrupt his country which will be lot more brutal for Russians to

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## sammuel

~

The daily show take on the situation . Specially watch from minute 9:30






~

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## Oldman1

Indian Libertarian said:


> What’s with all the foreign fighters? Are they trying to be the next ISIS? I thought mercenaries are not entitled to the same rights as combatants. Would not be good if they get captured


Does a former South Korean Navy SEAL want to be ISIS? How about a British sniper? Or Belarusian volunteers who refuse to invade Ukraine but joins Ukraine? Or a former Georgian politician joining the war? They know the consequences of what the Russians will do. 









The former Minister of Defense of Georgia joins the International Legion


The former Minister of Defense of Georgia Irakli Okruashvili has joined the ranks of volunteers.




en.lb.ua





The former Minister of Defense of Georgia joins the International Legion​The former Minister of Defense of Georgia Irakli Okruashvili has joined the ranks of volunteers.​​





Gripen9 said:


> My go to book for casual reading is Tom Clancy's "Red Storm Rising". It is a modern warfare masterpiece which predates his Jack Ryan Series.
> 
> Some of these events unfolding feel eerily similar....
> 
> And he wrote that in early 1980s!


Good book, but if you want something more related to the current events read *Command Authority *by Tom Clancy.


----------



## ProudPak

gambit said:


> We do have some MIG and Su in government and private hands. Just that no one expected this mess...


For 25 years you didn't. Gorbachev warned you. I saw a video a couple of days ago


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

Gul_Khan_Peshawar said:


> Since US ran this program, it goes without saying that it has to be for the greater good of humanity. Just like all the wars, dropping nukes on Japan, toppling Egyption democratically elected government and ignoring dictators etc.



This is just one of the labs the Chinese official is talking about that the US helped fund. It doesn't mean US personnel were in there doing the experiments.


----------



## Genghis khan1

8888888888888 said:


> No evidence of that


Evidence is my word.


----------



## 8888888888888

Genghis khan1 said:


> Evidence is my word.


So nothing, OK.


----------



## jhungary

Indian Libertarian said:


> What’s with all the foreign fighters? Are they trying to be the next ISIS? I thought mercenaries are not entitled to the same rights as combatants. Would not be good if they get captured


Mercenary and Foreign Fighter are two different concepts.

A Mercenary is a person who fight in a conflict without any official government representation. Ie. Not part of Government Force, that can include insurgent, terrorist and militia (Not government sponsored one like the US National Guard)

A foreign fighter is a concept to accept foreign national into a country own Military Force. As long as proper Visas and Citizenship process is involved, you are allowed to hire a Non-Citizen into your own armed force, this is done in almost all western country. The most famous one is British Commonwealth Soldier (they came from Nepal (Gurkhas), Australia, South Africa, Fiji and commonwealth country) and French (Foreign Legion) US, Australia, New Zealand, Canada all accept Non-Citizen Permanent Resident to join their Military.

While Mercenary did not enjoy Geneva Convention Protection, Foreign Fighter do, if they fought under a Government Military Force, it would have the same right as a soldier born in that country and hold citizenship of that country

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## Oldman1

kingQamaR said:


> These are war crimes my friend and it’s against his own very Slavic brothers who he was arguing he had launched this operations to liberate them from those nazis!
> 
> Please remember Europeans are not sitting back now they have replied back to with economically and not military they are going to bankrupt his country which will be lot more brutal for Russians to


Liberation or annexation?




Time index 1 minute. Looks like the independence would be pretty short.


----------



## CIA Mole

how much cleaner would the russian invasion be had they not had to sit and wait till after olympics? 

during that period nato did send in lot of equipment

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## Clutch



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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> Those like @thetutle sitting in a VERY far off country willing to say, as he said above, that Europe is willing to take a chance are too comfortable in their own remote environments to realize what might happen.


I talked to some relatives all over Europe and posed this question to them. Even the ones that are all for peace and have a lot to lose agree with me that nuclear war beats Russian occupation. All of them. They all have kids. They are of the view that if Putin is determined to launch, he will launch, and doing things to try to prevent that or surrendering is a mistake. 

Thay all agree that if he wins in Ukraine he has no reason to stop.


----------



## Oldman1

8888888888888 said:


> They actually believe that the Russian military is failing BS.


----------



## 8888888888888

More more sense for Russia to occupy Ukraine in the long run.


----------



## Avicenna

thetutle said:


> I talked to some relatives all over Europe and posed this question to them. Even the ones that are all for peace and have a lot to lose agree with me that nuclear war beats Russian occupation. All of them. They all have kids. They are of the view that if Putin is determined to launch, he will launch, and doing things to try to prevent that or surrendering is a mistake.
> 
> Thay all agree that if he wins in Ukraine he has no reason to stop.



Yeah no.

That's the stupidest thing I've heard in a long time.

Anything beats a nuclear armageddon.

And I hate to break it to you.

Ukraine ain't worth it.

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## Oldman1

Clutch said:


>







Time index 7:30. Neo-nazis in Ukraine.

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## Clutch

thetutle said:


> Thay all agree that if he wins in Ukraine he has no reason to stop.



I doubt it... Even if Putin wins in Ukraine... The Russians would have lost too much in the process to progress any further... There will be no momentum left after Ukraine for the Russians.

Putin's war in Ukraine is unpopular amongst Russians.... He has limited options and time.


----------



## F-22Raptor

8888888888888 said:


> More more sense for Russia to occupy Ukraine in the long run.



They don’t have the forces to do it and certainly won’t have the funds.


----------



## Clutch

Oldman1 said:


> Time index 7:30. Neo-nazis in Ukraine.


Lol...


























https://youtu.be/iDG_hWlVda4


----------



## Indian Libertarian

thetutle said:


> I talked to some relatives all over Europe and posed this question to them. Even the ones that are all for peace and have a lot to lose agree with me that nuclear war beats Russian occupation. All of them. They all have kids. They are of the view that if Putin is determined to launch, he will launch, and doing things to try to prevent that or surrendering is a mistake.
> 
> Thay all agree that if he wins in Ukraine he has no reason to stop.


Lol I’m not willing to die for what happens in Ukraine. No one in far off America wants to die. The lives of billions in the world are worth more than the Ukrainian state “surviving”.

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## 8888888888888

F-22Raptor said:


> They don’t have the forces to do it and certainly won’t have the funds.


They can do it if they close the EU border, funds are OK because China will come in to help.


----------



## 8888888888888

CIA Mole said:


> how much cleaner would the russian invasion be had they not had to sit and wait till after olympics?
> 
> during that period nato did send in lot of equipment


This is why there are rumors that the top Chinese leaderships has some kind of scolding going on recently.


----------



## Oldman1

Clutch said:


> Lol...









Neo nazis in Russia.


----------



## Indian Libertarian

8888888888888 said:


> This is why there are rumors that the top Chinese leaderships has some kind of scolding going on recently.


Do you have a source on that?


----------



## arjunk

Khan vilatey said:


> Shit he is right, I am living in a bizzaro world
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> k


You know the end is near when Arnab Goswami talks sense

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## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## kingQamaR

Oldman1 said:


> Liberation or annexation?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time index 1 minute. Looks like the independence would be pretty short.



that was really uncomfortable to watch the guy was afraid for his life


----------



## CIA Mole

8888888888888 said:


> This is why there are rumors that the top Chinese leaderships has some kind of scolding going on recently.


who scolding who?


----------



## 8888888888888

Oldman1 said:


> Neo nazis in Russia.


They are more like the Fascist movement



CIA Mole said:


> who scolding who?


Just a rumor so no idea who but I heard someone on top scolded someone.


----------



## Microsoft

The US is only helping European complainers by giving them a greater supply of Russian oil especially in a time where energy costs are high. Why must Americans pay for these ungrateful countries that are giving money to Chinese and Russian businesses? To save them from Russia and China?


----------



## Oldman1

CIA Mole said:


> how much cleaner would the russian invasion be had they not had to sit and wait till after olympics?
> 
> during that period nato did send in lot of equipment


How much cleaner? I would say more insurgency, would have taken longer to bring in weapons with European and U.S. scrambling to send in weapons, Ukrainian forces would have withdrew westward. Also there would be many protests and trying to overthrow the newly installed government and fights and arrests with riot police. Putin would have to send forces back in.

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## CIA Mole

8888888888888 said:


> They are more like the Fascist movement
> 
> 
> Just a rumor so no idea who but I heard someone on top scolded someone.




isnt it ultimately xi’s decision? perhaps be did not expect a full invasion?


so perhaps xi got played by putin?


----------



## Oldman1

8888888888888 said:


> They are more like the Fascist movement






kingQamaR said:


> that was really uncomfortable to watch the guy was afraid for his life


Well it is Putin...


----------



## ProudPak

xuxu1457 said:


> View attachment 822127


Notice Israel has not imposed sanctions


----------



## jhungary

Saho said:


> I’m trying to wrap my head ans figure out what Russia’s long term in this. They’ve been cut off from the world completely so what will they do when they capture Ukraine and succeed installing a Russian friendly government? How are they going to convince the world to lift sanctions?



There are no end game for Putin, conventional wisdom suggest he either overplayed his hand or underestimated the European and US response, along with the defence of Ukraine (13 days in, none of the major city felt, Mariupol in particular would have been day 1 objective.)

The only way Putin can go is move forward, and try to gain enough leverage on the issue to bow out with a Peace Deal, hopefully took some Sanction out with the peace deal. 

Notice that there are no way Putin can achieve what he said is the reason on why he is going to war in Ukraine, which is NATO expansion, because NATO border will not shrink (Ukraine were never part of NATO) even if he occupied the Entire Ukraine and it may actually increase if Sweden, Finland and Moldova joined NATO, which is very likely on the first 2.





kingQamaR said:


> I think Putin called west bluff thinking it would be giving up to him, what I think caught Russia Washington London by surprise is Ukrainian fierce resistance caught them all out. did USA not offer Ukraine Pm a helicopter ride out he declined it demanding guns and arms. I don’t honestly west cares before now probably thru real security threats they’ve hit Putin with sanctions on everyone every thing that is connected to Russia. No puppet government from Moscow will ever be able to survive in Ukraine with 44 million people against it. Neither will Putins Russia diplomatically and economically now frozen with sanctions move on looks like a stalemate to me for all of sides. only hope is for the Russians to deal with Putin when there living standards falls pre communism time and that is not that far off. he’s wrecked his country ignore his cheer leaders on here. Ukraine have successfully made the world recognised them as a sovereign state something that has never happened before all thanks to Putins miscalculation



Funny thing, was watching a TV program here who compare the two leader in this war (Zelenskyy and Putin) The guy on TV ( think he is an analyst or something) point out how different between Zelenskyy and Putin appearence during the war. And that show how the situation is actually presenting. 

You can see Zelenskyy out and about shooting Instagram Video here and Telegram video there, he is in the city, you literally can see him everywhere, Putin on the other hand have a reserved and retreated style, he is always in his room, the same room that happen to almost all of his appearance for the last 13 days. The analyst then said it should how Zelenskyy is connected to the actual situation happened to him and in Ukraine and he knows what's going on, and where Putin is insulated to the fact, he is in his own corner. 

That said a lot on the actual progress of the war.



8888888888888 said:


> They are more like the Fascist movement
> 
> 
> Just a rumor so no idea who but I heard someone on top scolded someone.


Those are Nazi Salute......

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## Enigma SIG

Oldman1 said:


> We got a bunch of Neo-Nazis in the U.S. Russia going to attack the U.S.? Because its a nuclear power, things are pretty dangerous...Russia may need to do something.


If the situation has come to this, the US might wanna look at nuking it self.


----------



## thetutle

Avicenna said:


> Yeah no.
> 
> That's the stupidest thing I've heard in a long time.
> 
> Anything beats a nuclear armageddon.
> 
> And I hate to break it to you.
> 
> Ukraine ain't worth it.



Thats your view. I'm telling you the view of my own mother who lived in communism and saw Russian brutality dished out to Eastern Europe. That is not life. Eastern Europe didnt have a nuclear umbrella then, but now they have a military that can fight and maybe a US nuclear umbrella. To avoid testing that nuclear umbrella and to avoid testing their military, they know that Ukraine is fighting for their freedom right now and if Ukraine fails, they are next. They must resist, worrying about what Putin will do wont help anyone.


----------



## Goritoes

Why these White Volunteers never go to Palestine or Kashmir to fight invasion's and oppression ?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

Clutch said:


> I doubt it... Even if Putin wins in Ukraine... The Russians would have lost too much in the process to progress any further... There will be no momentum left after Ukraine for the Russians.
> 
> Putin's war in Ukraine is unpopular amongst Russians.... He has limited options and time.


Just like he uses the conquered Chechens to sow death and destruction to Ukraine, He will use the conquered ukanians to do the same to other europeans. 

But dont worry, he wil be stopped here. Europe and America realise this.



Indian Libertarian said:


> Lol I’m not willing to die for what happens in Ukraine. No one in far off America wants to die. The lives of billions in the world are worth more than the Ukrainian state “surviving”.


Its not to save Ukraine, its to prevent Russia growing. People in America wont be asked thankfully. This has bipartisan support.


----------



## Oldman1

Enigma SIG said:


> If the situation has come to this, the US might wanna look at nuking it self.


Yeah so should Russia.


----------



## Enigma SIG

Oldman1 said:


> Yeah so should Russia.


Why not.


----------



## Patriot forever

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501329902930468874




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501441419440971784
Pakistan is getting famous 😂

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## Madni Bappa

Oldman1 said:


> Probably some confusion how they are going to deliver it. But Poland giving it to the U.S. instead of directly to Ukraine is treating the MiGs like hot potato.
> 
> 
> Well Russia needs to do something quick because more anti tanks and volunteers are flowing in. And many of these guys are veterans and have training. Not something the Russian forces want to have to deal with long term...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Korean YouTuber and former navy seal says he has arrived in Ukraine to fight, despite his government's travel ban to the country
> 
> 
> "If I return alive, then I will take responsibility for everything and receive the punishment I'm given," Ken Rhee said amid a travel ban to Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Korean YouTuber and former navy seal says he has arrived in Ukraine to fight, despite his government's travel ban to the country​
> 
> The South Korean YouTuber Ken Rhee says he is in Ukraine to fight, despite Korea's travel ban there.
> Koreans who enter Ukraine without authorization may be subject to a jail sentence or a fine.
> "If I return alive, then I will take responsibility for everything," Rhee said on Instagram.
> Ken Rhee, a popular South Korean YouTuber and former Korean navy seal said he has landed in Ukraine to fight as a volunteer soldier — despite his government's travel ban to the country.


Poles are smart unlike Ukrainians. They know if something happens or Russia retaliates. Yanks will run away and leave them to fend for themselves. Just like they left Ukraine in the lurch.


----------



## SIPRA

Madni Bappa said:


> Poles are smart unlike Ukrainians. They know if something happens or Russia retaliates. Yanks will run away and leave them to fend for themselves. Just like they left Ukraine in the lurch.



Yes. Message of US, to countries surrounding Russia, is crystal clear:

"Jaagday raena; saaday tay na raena"

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## thetutle



Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## alimobin memon

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501440037937950720


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501367664295706624^ USSR flashback?

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## CIA Mole

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501367664295706624^ USSR flashback?


stuff like mcdonalds and coke and kfc are easily to replicate to 95%+ 
but the car plants need chips and russians cant get chips and the chinese probably cant even help with that


----------



## 8888888888888

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501367664295706624^ USSR flashback?


I think Chinese companies will take over and/or be sold off to Russian business



CIA Mole said:


> stuff like mcdonalds and coke and kfc are easily to replicate to 95%+
> but the car plants need chips and russians cant get chips and the chinese probably cant even help with that


China can make chips, not as advance as US but near enough.

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## CIA Mole

8888888888888 said:


> I think Chinese companies will take over and/or be sold off to Russian business
> 
> 
> China can make chips, not as advance as US but near enough.


nah secondary sanctions will cripple any chinese companies unless its dedicated for russian trade

i will take a #5 mcputin with fries please


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501464791222824966


----------



## Wergeland 2.0

This thread is becoming a US fanboyz circle jerk bonanza.

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## 8888888888888

CIA Mole said:


> nah secondary sanctions will cripple any chinese companies unless its dedicated for russian trade
> 
> i will take a #5 mcputin with fries please


Should be no issues, already got certain companies trading with Iran.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501469696150880256


----------



## Wergeland 2.0

Im afraid most people dont yet realize how dangerous this conflict is.

What we have now is exactly what the entire cold war was designed to prevent. During cold war there were mechanism and checks and balances in place. US and Soviets regardless of their rivalry, still respected eachother to a certain extent. But all of that is now gone completely.

Russia may or may not win this war. But IF Russia wins this war, it will be looking for revenge on those who supported anti-Russian Ukraine. America is too far away but Europe will have to face the consequences. The Russians are known to have long memories. Soviet massacre on Poles during WW2 was a tit for tat for previous Polish massacre on Russians many decades earlier.

The fanboyz on both sides are sitting comfortable in their home and cheering for destruction. Disconnected from reality, real world and its harsh consequences. The world is a mere video game, a soap opera, virtual reality. But in Ukraine there are real people, flesh and blood, Poles, Ukrainians, Russians living and breathing and dying in the most horrible ways. Families and lives shattered.

I am getting sick of this world and its bloodlust. F**k every warmonger.

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## RescueRanger

Time to inject some reality into the thread again:






Price of wheat today 1327 dollars per bushel. A lot of countries will feel the pinch!

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## Madni Bappa

With gas prices sky high, here are pro tips to make a tank last longer


“Hypermiler” Wayne Gerdes is the guru of gas-saving, having broken the the Guinness World Record for the longest distance traveled on a single tank of gasoline (2,254.4 miles, or 164 mi…




nypost.com





This is as stupid_. _As stupid can get.


----------



## jhungary

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> This thread is becoming a US fanboyz circle jerk bonanza.



Do you really think the Russian really do perform well in this war??

Let me tell you this

It took US 1st Marine Division and numerous Army Units 4 weeks to clear house to house in Fallujah, and 1st Marine is probably the VDV in Russian Army, and Kyiv is about 10 times as big, 20 times as populated, do you really think Bombing the city into rubble would help Russian take the city? 

No doubt they will win, but how long it take and how many people they lost is also an important factor. At this rate, it would be May or later we could potentially see Kyiv fall. And that is if Russian economy can hold on that long. Rouble almost lost 50% of its value to USD in just 13 days. It goes from 0.012 to now 0.0071 USD per rouble.....another 1/10 of a cents, and it will hit the 50% mark. And I don't see China is doing anything to help stabilise rouble

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## Paul2

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> What we have now a exactly what the entire cold war was designed to prevent. During cold cold there were mechanism and checks and balances in place. US and Societs regardless of their rivalry, still respected eachother to a certain extent. But all of that is now gone completely.



There never were any "checks, and balances," but a nuke staring at Moscow, and 10 Soviet divisions on the border ready to flatten Beijing

That's what 90% of the cold war was about. Everything else, coups, proxy wars, and Vietnam was not important.


----------



## Madni Bappa

RescueRanger said:


> Time to inject some reality into the thread again:
> View attachment 822196
> 
> 
> Price of wheat today 1327 dollars per bushel. A lot of countries will feel the pinch!


Sen Türk misin abi?



jhungary said:


> Do you really think the Russian really do perform well in this war??
> 
> Let me tell you this
> 
> It took US 1st Marine Division and numerous Army Units 4 weeks to clear house to house in Fallujah, and 1st Marine is probably the VDV in Russian Army, and Kyiv is about 10 times as big, 20 times as populated, do you really think Bombing the city into rubble would help Russian take the city?
> 
> No doubt they will win, but how long it take and how many people they lost is also an important factor. At this rate, it would be May or later we could potentially see Kyiv fall. And that is if Russian economy can hold on that long. Rouble almost lost 50% of its value to USD in just 13 days. It goes from 0.012 to now 0.0071 USD per rouble.....another 1/10 of a cents, and it will hit the 50% mark. And I don't see China is doing anything to help stabilise rouble


Man you and others sound like BeijingWalker and Beast


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501466246163968001

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501466248378560514

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501466250450456576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501466253126418432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501466255060090884

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501466257253703682

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
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## CIA Mole

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> I afraid most people dont yet realize how dangerous this conflict is.
> 
> What we have now is exactly what the entire cold war was designed to prevent. During cold war there were mechanism and checks and balances in place. US and Soviets regardless of their rivalry, still respected eachother to a certain extent. But all of that is now gone completely.
> 
> Russia may or may not win this war. But IF Russia wins this war, it will be looking for revenge on those who supported anti-Russian Ukraine. America is too far away but Europe will have to face the consequences. The Russians are known to have long memories. Soviet massacre on Poles during WW2 was a tit for tat for previous Polish massacre on Russians many decades earlier.
> 
> The fanboyz on both sides are sitting comfortable in their home and cheering for destruction. Disconnected from reality, real world and its harsh consequences. The world is a mere video game, a soap opera, virtual reality. But in Ukraine there are real people, flesh and blood, Poles, Ukrainians, Russians living and breathing and dying in the most horrible ways. Families and lives shattered.
> 
> I am getting sick of this world and its bloodlust. F**k every warmonger.


there are uglier things happening constantly 24/7 everywhere and western media decided to full throttle on this issue

3 million children die every year from starvation

for most of the world they couldnt care less what happens in ukraine


----------



## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501466246163968001
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501466248378560514
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501466250450456576
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501466253126418432
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501466255060090884
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501466257253703682



The Russians have calculated every move. The Russians knew from day one what the worst case scenario's were going to be. They didn't step into this half-heartedly. Expect the Russians to go all the way now.



Wergeland 2.0 said:


> I afraid most people dont yet realize how dangerous this conflict is.
> 
> What we have now is exactly what the entire cold war was designed to prevent. During cold war there were mechanism and checks and balances in place. US and Soviets regardless of their rivalry, still respected eachother to a certain extent. But all of that is now gone completely.
> 
> Russia may or may not win this war. But IF Russia wins this war, it will be looking for revenge on those who supported anti-Russian Ukraine. America is too far away but Europe will have to face the consequences. The Russians are known to have long memories. Soviet massacre on Poles during WW2 was a tit for tat for previous Polish massacre on Russians many decades earlier.
> 
> The fanboyz on both sides are sitting comfortable in their home and cheering for destruction. Disconnected from reality, real world and its harsh consequences. The world is a mere video game, a soap opera, virtual reality. But in Ukraine there are real people, flesh and blood, Poles, Ukrainians, Russians living and breathing and dying in the most horrible ways. Families and lives shattered.
> 
> I am getting sick of this world and its bloodlust. F**k every warmonger.



Let's face it. Everyone only cares about their own pain. I can tell you that most developing countries have a similar feeling towards their colonizers. Ask the ordinary Joe how he/she feels about Western interventions in their lands. They also feel sick and abandoned. You are getting a tiny taste of your own medicine I am afraid.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501466259061452805

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501466261104082944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501466262844719107

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501466264383934465

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501466266250489856


----------



## Vergennes

jhungary said:


> Do you really think the Russian really do perform well in this war??
> 
> Let me tell you this
> 
> It took US 1st Marine Division and numerous Army Units 4 weeks to clear house to house in Fallujah, and 1st Marine is probably the VDV in Russian Army, and Kyiv is about 10 times as big, 20 times as populated, do you really think Bombing the city into rubble would help Russian take the city?
> 
> No doubt they will win, but how long it take and how many people they lost is also an important factor. At this rate, it would be May or later we could potentially see Kyiv fall. And that is if Russian economy can hold on that long. Rouble almost lost 50% of its value to USD in just 13 days. It goes from 0.012 to now 0.0071 USD per rouble.....another 1/10 of a cents, and it will hit the 50% mark. And I don't see China is doing anything to help stabilise rouble



Those who think China will risk its economic relations with the west for Putin's sake are so mistaken. Trillions of $ are much more important than relations with Russia. The only thing "China will support Putin" for is only to get russian natural ressources at bargain prices.

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## CIA Mole

Vergennes said:


> Those who think China will risk its economic relations with the west for Putin's sake are so mistaken. Trillions of $ are much more important than relations with Russia. The only thing "China will support Putin" for is only to get russian natural ressources at bargain prices.


5000 nukes can coerce people into anything


----------



## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> The Russians have calculator every move. The Russians knew from day one what the worst case scenario's were going to be.
> 
> 
> 
> Let's face it. Everyone only cares about their own pain. I can tell you that most developing countries have a similar feeling towards their colonizers.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501448128104390667
Putin has completely annihilated Russias economy. Straight to African third world type status in 2 weeks.

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## Dalit

Vergennes said:


> Those who think China will risk its economic relations with the west for Putin's sake are so mistaken. Trillions of $ are much more important than relations with Russia. The only thing "China will support Putin" for is only to get russian natural ressources at bargain prices.



If you think that China is going to appease the West you are mistaken too. China fully realizes that Western powers are coming after them. China and Russia makes no different. Both are on the hitlist of Western powers.

What China will do at most is take a neutral stance. Not very favourable for Western powers. The Western powers cannot even accept a neutral stance from other nations.

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## Vergennes

CIA Mole said:


> 5000 nukes can coerce people into anything



Agitating the nuclear threat left and right sums up pretty much Russia's insecurity and probably inferiority complex,the only way for Putin to be considered as "a big of this world" is to threaten countries left and right with nuclear weapons. Having no trust in its own economy and conventional armed forces,you get this result.


----------



## RescueRanger

Madni Bappa said:


> Sen Türk misin abi?
> 
> 
> Man you and others sound like BeijingWalker and Beast


kardeşim yok - A friend sent it to me who is from Turkiye. 🙂


----------



## Madni Bappa

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501466246163968001
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501466248378560514
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501466250450456576
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501466253126418432
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501466255060090884
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501466257253703682


Yet again Captain America saves the day:







Rejoice ye oppressed people of color. Democracy has arrived:








Democracy has arrived!


American Dad - Democracy has arrived!




m.youtube.com

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Dalit

Vergennes said:


> Agitating the nuclear threat left and right sums up pretty much Russia's insecurity and probably inferiority complex,the only way for Putin to be considered as "a big of this world" is to threaten countries left and right with nuclear weapons. Having no trust in its own economy and conventional armed forces,you get this result.



The Russians fully trust their conventional capability. That is why they went ahead in Ukraine. The Russians knew the economic risk. They were willing to take it.

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## CIA Mole

Vergennes said:


> Agitating the nuclear threat left and right sums up pretty much Russia's insecurity and probably inferiority complex,the only way for Putin to be considered as "a big of this world" is to threaten countries left and right with nuclear weapons. Having no trust in its own economy and conventional armed forces,you get this result.


the point US and Russia can control the world by its balls

what they say goes

the chinese barely have enough nukes to get through US missle defence



even lil bitch *** north korea has significant leverage and uses it to extort regularly


----------



## RescueRanger

The Ukrainians will allow foreign fighters who have volunteered to apply for Ukrainian citizenship should they wish to:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501392340405178369

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

Dalit said:


> The Russians fully trust their conventional capability. That is why they went ahead in Ukraine. The Russians knew the economic risk. They were willing to take it.



Putin knows very well his armed forces could never be on par with NATO forces. Seeing Russian armed forces' overall performance in Ukraine just shows how incompetent,unprepared and the general junk state of the Russian armed forces are in.

Those who were saying the Russian army would steamroll Europe within 48 hours are probably amazed at "Putin's army performance". It would be a miracle if they reached Tallinn,let alone the rest.


----------



## Dalit

Vergennes said:


> Putin knows very well his armed forces could never be on par with NATO forces. Seeing Russian armed forces' overall performance in Ukraine just shows how incompetent,unprepared and the general junk state of the Russian armed forces are in.
> 
> Those who were saying the Russian army would steamroll Europe within 48 hours are probably amazed at "Putin's army performance". It would be a miracle if they reached Tallinn,let alone the rest.



That is what you claim. Let's put this theory to test. NATO is free to challange Russian forces in Ukraine.

As Ukrainian people are moving out there will be lesser lives lost. The Russians will pounce the remaining Ukrainian forces.


----------



## thetutle

Dalit said:


> The Russians have calculator every move. The Russians knew from day one what the worst case scenario's were going to be.



So Russia just gave 315 billion in foreign reserves to EU and USA on purpose? What nice bunch of guys. Because as you say they knew the west was taking this money and they left it in western banks anyway. such generosity.


----------



## Dalit

thetutle said:


> So Russia just gave 315 billion in foreign reserves to EU and USA on purpose? What nice bunch of guys. Because as you say they knew the west was taking this money and they left it in western banks anyway. such generosity.



Are you telling us that the Russians didn't know what was coming after their Ukraine actions? The Russians knew that Western powers would at best economically sanction them. A no-brainer.

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## gambit

Dalit said:


> That is what you claim. Let's put this theory to test. NATO is free to challange Russian forces in Ukraine.


What for? A non NATO country seems to be doing Russia damages pretty good.

There is a recent joke about Ukraine...

Zelensky, as a concession to Russia, turned down NATO potential membership offer. But considering how Zelensky have been leading Ukraine and how Ukrainians fought despite being outnumbered and outgunned, Zelensky offered NATO to join Ukraine.

This is Day 13. Where is the VKS?


----------



## Madni Bappa

thetutle said:


> So Russia just gave 315 billion in foreign reserves to EU and USA on purpose? What nice bunch of guys. Because as you say they knew the west was taking this money and they left it in western banks anyway. such generosity.


This move by West devalues usd cuz other people and nations are watching Afghan and now Russian sovereign money and assets confiscated.

So this decreases their confidence.


----------



## gambit

Dalit said:


> Are you telling us that the Russians didn't know what was coming after their Ukraine actions?


Yes.



Dalit said:


> The Russians knew that Western powers would at best economically sanction them. A no-brainer.


Maybe it is true Poutine have no brain.


----------



## Dalit

RescueRanger said:


> The Ukrainians will allow foreign fighters who have volunteered to apply for Ukrainian citizenship should they wish to:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501392340405178369



This clearly illustrates the US/NATO aren't protecting Ukraine. Just sending weapons to wash their hands. Why else would Ukraine be pleading to foreigners to join the war?



gambit said:


> Yes.
> 
> 
> Maybe it is true Poutine have no brain.



Wrong. The Russians knew it all along. Anyone who starts a war knows the consequences.

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## gambit

Dalit said:


> This clearly illustrates the US/NATO aren't protecting Ukraine. Just sending weapons to wash their hands. *Why else would Ukraine be pleading to foreigners to join the war?*


So NATO could join the war.


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## Madni Bappa

gambit said:


> What for? A non NATO country seems to be doing Russia damages pretty good.
> 
> There is a recent joke about Ukraine...
> 
> Zelensky, as a concession to Russia, turned down NATO potential membership offer. But considering how Zelensky have been leading Ukraine and how Ukrainians fought despite being outnumbered and outgunned, Zelensky offered NATO to join Ukraine.
> 
> This is Day 13. Where is the VKS?


Whenever someone says Zelensky I think of him playing piano with his weewee. Then I imagine how he's playing with Ukrainian people and their lives in the same way.

In the end they will pay price. While he'll flee to Tel Aviv.

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## CIA Mole

Madni Bappa said:


> This move by West devalues usd cuz other people and nations are watching Afghan and now Russian sovereign money and assets confiscated.
> 
> So this decreases their confidence.


hope switzerland gets screwed

all these western countries have been protecting corrupt criminals from developing worlds and thus enabling corruption

its certainly one way to get back the trade deficits that they incur while still being able to sit back and call those countries corrupt while continuously undermining their development and institutions

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## Zibago

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501244677974069253
> At this rate, Russia will lose 1/3 of its forces by the end of May.


I still don't get why are they holding back their airpower ?

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## Madni Bappa

Zibago said:


> I still don't get why are they holding back their airpower ?


They're starting to use it a little bit now.


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## CIA Mole

Zibago said:


> I still don't get why are they holding back their airpower ?


some say its in case they need it for nato intervention


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## Madni Bappa

CIA Mole said:


> hope switzerland gets screwed
> 
> all these western countries have been protecting corrupt criminals from developing worlds and thus enabling corruption
> 
> its certainly one way to get back the trade deficits that they incur while still being able to sit back and call those countries corrupt while continuously undermining their development and institutions


I'm trying to watch this very closely from a ahadis perspective as well. This could turn big in no time indeed.

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## Malik Alpha

RescueRanger said:


> Time to inject some reality into the thread again:
> View attachment 822196
> 
> 
> Price of wheat today 1327 dollars per bushel. A lot of countries will feel the pinch!


How much kilos in one bushel?


----------



## newb3e

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> This thread is becoming a US fanboyz circle jerk bonanza.


Zelenzky is the new Amraullah Saleh! 

and UKr is the new ANA!


----------



## Crystal-Clear

100% effective against an air assault.

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## CIA Mole

Madni Bappa said:


> I'm trying to watch this very closely from a ahadis perspective as well. This could turn big in no time indeed.





Madni Bappa said:


> I'm trying to watch this very closely from a ahadis perspective as well. This could turn big in no time indeed.


so far UK has refused to punish the oligarchs i guess they want to pounce on the opportunity to become the main place to store corruption gains

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## A1Kaid

CIA Mole said:


> some say its in case they need it for nato intervention



Exactly, Russia is using the minimal amount of force and resources it needs to take and complete its objectives. The rest of the force and resources are on standby in case NATO gets involved or the homeland comes under attack. On top of that Russia is fighting this war mainly with conscripts, paramilitary and some military regulars.

Ukrainian cities Kyiv and Mariupol are all about done for.

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## RescueRanger

Dalit said:


> This clearly illustrates the US/NATO aren't protecting Ukraine. Just sending weapons to wash their hands. Why else would Ukraine be pleading to foreigners to join the war?
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong. The Russians knew it all along. Anyone who starts a war knows the consequences



Just to add onto this - unskilled volunteers going to Poland no matter how well intentioned are making a very big mistake - if you are not trained or skilled in combat or medicine or working in conflict/disaster zones - you will be a complete liability.

There are a lot of people spreading misinformation online that the Ukrainians will “train” new volunteers this I believe is a lie as they “Ukrainians” are in a state of war, they have 120,000 news Ukrainians to train and equip and they will be priority. 

I have read multiple tweets from disgruntled people who went to Poland only to be refused by the Ukrainian recruiters on the border for lack of skill and preparedness - people turning up without basic kit- basic language skills - nothing.

I wrote a very detailed post on the practicalities of deploying to conflict zones in my previous post which is found here:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Oryx has now visually confirmed over 900 Russian losses



defence.pk





If you know anyone who is NOT skilled and toying with the idea of wasting money to fly to Poland only to waste their time and the time of the Ukrainians - please share this information with them.

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## jhungary

CIA Mole said:


> 5000 nukes can coerce people into anything



Quoting what the French said

"May I remind the government of Russia, not only you have nuke..."


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## CIA Mole

A1Kaid said:


> Exactly, Russia is using the minimal amount of force and resources it needs to take and complete its objectives. The rest of the force and resources is on standby in case NATO gets involved or the homeland comes under attack.
> 
> Ukrainian cities Kyiv and Mariupol are all about done for.


i would imagine the chinese have similar plans for taiwan

they would obviously allocate assets for potential us, japan, etc forces


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## Type59

thetutle said:


> So Russia just gave 315 billion in foreign reserves to EU and USA on purpose? What nice bunch of guys. Because as you say they knew the west was taking this money and they left it in western banks anyway. such generosity.


Money is frozen. The money will be returned to Russia in the future.

USA and Russia relations won't forever remained strained.


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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> Just to add onto this - unskilled volunteers going to Poland no matter how well intentioned are making a very big mistake - if you are not trained or skilled in combat or medicine or working in conflict/disaster zones - you will be a complete liability.
> 
> There are a lot of people spreading misinformation online that the Ukrainians will “train” new volunteers this I believe is a lie as they “Ukrainians” are in a state of war, they have 120,000 news Ukrainians to train and equip and they will be priority.
> 
> I have read multiple tweets from disgruntled people who went to Poland only to be refused by the Ukrainian recruiters on the border for lack of skill and preparedness - people turning up without basic kit- basic language skills - nothing.
> 
> I wrote a very detailed post on the practicalities of deploying to conflict zones in my previous post which is found here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> Oryx has now visually confirmed over 900 Russian losses
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you know anyone who is NOT skilled and toying with the idea of wasting money to fly to Poland only to waste their time and the time of the Ukrainians - please share this information with them.



I have read the "Recruitment Application" of the international legion. It said you must have combat experience and also your own equipment.

They aren't taking anyone without Combat Experience, and they don't have time to train them. You can go to Ukraine to help out but if you do not have combat experience, you can still do stuff, just not combat.

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## CIA Mole

jhungary said:


> Quoting what the French said
> 
> "May I remind the government of Russia, not only you have nuke..."


but russia can end the world and has much less to lose compared to the world which has 60 times the russian population and 100 times the gdp

mugging at gun point only works if the other side has more to live for than you do



because of this theres less chance of nuclear conflict between us and china than russian and china/us


----------



## RescueRanger

Malik Alpha said:


> How much kilos in one bushel?


60 lbs.

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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> Those who were saying the Russian army would steamroll Europe within 48 hours are probably amazed at "Putin's army performance". It would be a miracle if they reached Tallinn,let alone the rest.



Well, if it wasn't Ukraine they were attacking, they could've had a lot more success.

First, Western politicians would've folded in days. Second, Western overemphasis on long range precision weapons would've not helped them with a tank army on their doorsteps. Third, Europe has way better roads, and more civilian fuel stations to loot.

The West universally has more advanced airforce, but an F16 has only that much of bomb payload.


----------



## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


> I have read the "Recruitment Application" of the international legion. It said you must have combat experience and also your own equipment.
> 
> They aren't taking anyone without Combat Experience, and they don't have time to train them. You can go to Ukraine to help out but if you do not have combat experience, you can still do stuff, just not combat.



Exactly. People need to stop romanticising war - sign up with the Polish Red Cross at any of the border control points - they are crying out for volunteers.

Here is a cautionary tale:









Ukraine war: Briton who volunteered to join fight against Russia turned down and told he would be 'a liability'


Leon Dawson tells Sky News he has now travelled to Poland's border with Ukraine to deliver aid to the war-torn country - and he is still willing to take up arms if required.




news.sky.com

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## SIPRA

A1Kaid said:


> Exactly, Russia is using the minimal amount of force and resources it needs to take and complete its objectives. The rest of the force and resources is on standby in case NATO gets involved or the homeland comes under attack. On top of that Russia is fighting this war mainly with conscripts, paramilitary and some military regulars.
> 
> Ukrainian cities Kyiv and Mariupol are all about done for.



A sane post, after quite some time.


----------



## jhungary

CIA Mole said:


> but russia can end the world and has much less to lose compared to the world which has 60 times the russian population and 100 times the gdp



Well, everyone have nuke could have ended the world several time over (Probably not North Korea) 

It is one thing to say* YOU WILL USE* Nuke. And it is another thing to *ACTUALLY USE IT*.

If you are talking about a deterrence manner, then anyone can blow anyone away, which negated your threat.
However, if you are really hell bend of using it, you use it anyway, you don't care about population or GDP or anything.

Which mean if you use it, you use it, if you are just talking about it, then you need to know it not just you who had this "edge"

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## thetutle

Dalit said:


> Are you telling us that the Russians didn't know what was coming after their Ukraine actions? The Russians knew that Western powers would at best economically sanction them. A no-brainer.


Well thats what I am asking you. Did Russia allow the west to have 315 billion USD on purpose?


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## lamdacore

A lot of analysts do not believe the shit going around on twitterland that Russia this curling up to die. We are still witnessing the early stages of the war. This is going to become a war of attrition and both sides will suffer losses. Its strange that only the West knows how well Ukraine is doing and how bad the war is going for Russia. That is what happens when you control information.

To be honest, even a person with an iota of common sense will know that a war of this nature will see losses, with parity, on both sides till one side is no longer able to bring forth assets and units as part of its war effort.

Take the WW2 for example. The Germans invaded successfully, deep into Soviet Union only to be held back at Stalingrad. During this time when the fighting was most extreme, Soviet Union rebuilt its forces and managed to out produce war material than Germany. The Soviets suffered heavily but because it could bring to bear its resources for the war effort and out-produced their enemies, they were able to take the fight all the way to Germany.

What we see today is something similar. To what extent will these volunteers keep Ukraine fighting and to what extent will these supplies come in. At the end of the day, when push comes to shove, these very volunteers are going to become mere numbers in the overall casualty statistics.

Everyone knows that despite the losses Russia is suffering, it is still very much restrained. However, those gloves are going to come off by the time a number of civilians leave through the humanitarian corridors. It is during this time and only this time that the Russian army will effectively regroup to prepare for the next phase of war. Also, it is during this time that diplomancy has a chance to win and negotiations can effectively end the war.

Once the ceasefire is over, we will see some of the most brutal fighting that the world will ever witness. These unfortunate volunteers, the so called western heros from across the world, will not be fighting Taliban or middle eastern terrorists, but an army poised to bring immense harm towards them. These volunteers are like dogs who travel far away when they know their lives are close to an end ready and prepared to be eaten by predators of the wild. Expect some brutal publications coming out of Ukraine in regards to them in couple of weeks and months.

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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> Exactly. People need to stop romanticising war - sign up with the Polish Red Cross at any of the border control points - they are crying out for volunteers.
> 
> Here is a cautionary tale:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine war: Briton who volunteered to join fight against Russia turned down and told he would be 'a liability'
> 
> 
> Leon Dawson tells Sky News he has now travelled to Poland's border with Ukraine to deliver aid to the war-torn country - and he is still willing to take up arms if required.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.sky.com


Well, War is not a playground where you only play and the only one you can hurt is yourself, probably another kid to stand too close to the swing set when you swing on it. In a War, untrained people don't just risk themselves, but they risk literally everyone around him.

Think about it for a second. Would you give a weapon to someone who has no training of weapon discipline? He is probably be more dangerous than a Russian Soldier.........

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## CIA Mole

jhungary said:


> Well, everyone have nuke could have ended the world several time over (Probably not North Korea)
> 
> It is one thing to say* YOU WILL USE* Nuke. And it is another thing to *ACTUALLY USE IT*.
> 
> If you are talking about a deterrence manner, then anyone can blow anyone away, which negated your threat.
> However, if you are really hell bend of using it, you use it anyway, you don't care about population or GDP or anything.
> 
> Which mean if you use it, you use it, if you are just talking about it, then you need to know it not just you who had this "edge"


i think he can definitely use it on ukraine unless ukraine is place under US nuke umbrella



jhungary said:


> Well, War is not a playground where you only play and the only one you can hurt is yourself, probably another kid to stand too close to the swing set when you swing on it. In a War, untrained people don't just risk themselves, but they risk literally everyone around him.
> 
> Think about it for a second. Would you give a weapon to someone who has no training of weapon discipline? He is probably be more dangerous than a Russian Soldier.........


Yes and not to mention a lot of the people that went to ukraine to fight are like this:

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/christopherm51/craig-lang-ukraine-war-crimes-alleged


no normal person would just say “ima go to ukraine and kill russians” 

it takes a certain mindset to want to go up against the russian army


----------



## thetutle

Madni Bappa said:


> This move by West devalues usd cuz other people and nations are watching Afghan and now Russian sovereign money and assets confiscated.
> 
> So this decreases their confidence.


Decreases value of USD in comparison to what currency?


----------



## jhungary

CIA Mole said:


> i think he can definitely use it on ukraine unless ukraine is place under US nuke umbrella
> 
> 
> Yes and not to mention a lot of the people that went to ukraine to fight are like this:https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/christopherm51/craig-lang-ukraine-war-crimes-alleged


You can't use nuke in Ukraine and expect no damage on other.

If you remember the Chernobyl Incident. It affect Germany and Sweden, and that was an accident, and that was probably less than a 1kt device being detonated. You use a tactical nuke in Ukraine would undoubtedly spread into NATO or blow back to Russia if you are using it in Eastern Ukraine.

Don't forget Moscow is *EXTREMELY CLOSE* to Ukraine Eastern Border, It's only 390km away, it is well within any tactical nuke radioactive fall out range.


----------



## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


> Well, War is not a playground where you only play and the only one you can hurt is yourself, probably another kid to stand too close to the swing set when you swing on it. In a War, untrained people don't just risk themselves, but they risk literally everyone around him.
> 
> Think about it for a second. Would you give a weapon to someone who has no training of weapon discipline? He is probably be more dangerous than a Russian Soldier.........


100 percent I mean the first thing drilled into us in basic during principles of marksmanship was LMFT. Not just that there are other considerations about self sustainability (turning up there without your own rations - med kit- PPE etc) and basic survival and evasion skills - basic language skills (phrase card) - ability to identify basic UXOs and let’s be honest how many people off the street would be able to identify a PFM (butterfly mine)?

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## jhungary

CIA Mole said:


> Yes and not to mention a lot of the people that went to ukraine to fight are like this:
> 
> https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/christopherm51/craig-lang-ukraine-war-crimes-alleged
> 
> 
> no normal person would just say “ima go to ukraine and kill russians”
> 
> it takes a certain mindset to want to go up against the russian army



Define normal person? 

Would a normal person invade another country just to base that off some "historical" believe that many don't believe in? Would a normal person bomb someone home until they are submitted? Would a normal person would much rather the entire country suffer so that he can pursuit his own agenda?

If the world is full of "Normal" person, this war would probably wouldn't even start to begin with.

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Well, everyone have nuke could have ended the world several time over (Probably not North Korea)
> 
> It is one thing to say* YOU WILL USE* Nuke. And it is another thing to *ACTUALLY USE IT*.
> 
> If you are talking about a deterrence manner, then anyone can blow anyone away, which negated your threat.
> However, if you are really hell bend of using it, you use it anyway, you don't care about population or GDP or anything.
> 
> Which mean if you use it, you use it, if you are just talking about it, then you need to know it not just you who had this "edge"



Wait... NATO in Europe simply don't have enough nukes to physically destroy enough armour were Russians to attack "by the book"

1mt gravity bomb has at most enough range to destroy a tank battalion if they were to bunch up, but in wartime they would obviously spread out few kms apart，that at most gives you 1 company per nuke.

Obviously not enough to defeat full scale tank invasion of the size you could've seen during the cold war.


----------



## thetutle

Type59 said:


> Money is frozen. The money will be returned to Russia in the future.
> 
> USA and Russia relations won't forever remained strained.


yes it will be returned the same way it was returned to Libya and Iraq. 

There will be bill to pay for Ukraine damage and the money spent on saving ukariane. and that money will go to them. or actually western companies who will rebuild Ukraine.


----------



## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> 100 percent I mean the first thing drilled into us in basic during principles of marksmanship was LMFT. Not just that there are other considerations about self sustainability (turning up there without your own rations - med kit- PPE etc) and basic survival and evasion skills - basic language skills (phrase card) - ability to identify basic UXOs and let’s be honest how many people off the street would be able to identify a PFM (butterfly mine)?


Well, people have this kind of notion described as "Robinhood Complex" in which they are pre-deposed to think they can do this without thinking about consequence. This is not a "free-for-all" zone where you can do whatever you want like it's a video game, real war is nasty, complicated, crazy for anyone who was involved. 

People watch movie and play video game and think war is the same, it is far from it.

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## Enigma SIG

thetutle said:


> So Russia just gave 315 billion in foreign reserves to EU and USA on purpose? What nice bunch of guys. Because as you say they knew the west was taking this money and they left it in western banks anyway. such generosity.








Russia Total External Debt - 2022 Data - 2023 Forecast - 2002-2021 Historical - Chart


External Debt in Russia decreased to 436.80 USD Billion in the third quarter of 2022 from 472.80 USD Billion in the second quarter of 2022. External Debt in Russia averaged 455.55 USD Billion from 2002 until 2022, reaching an all time high of 732.80 USD Billion in the second quarter of 2014 and...




tradingeconomics.com




External Debt in Russia decreased to 478.20 USD Billion in the fourth quarter of 2021 from 489.20 USD Billion in the third quarter of 2021​
Russian's are laughing all the way to the bank here.


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Wait... NATO in Europe simply don't have enough nukes to physically destroy enough armour were Russians to attack "by the book"
> 
> 1mt gravity bomb has at most enough range to destroy a tank battalion if they were to bunch up, but in wartime they would obviously spread out few kms apart，that at most gives you 1 company per nuke.
> 
> Obviously not enough to defeat full scale tank invasion of the size you could've seen during the cold war.


Well, depends on how you define "NATO in Europe" 

If you are just talking about France and the UK, yes, they probably can level Russia with the 500 or so nuclear device, probably not every corner. And I would think this is enough to deter a massive armor strike.

However, US asset is also in Europe, which mean unless Russia did not nuke back, once US asset is touched by Nuke, America will nuke back. And then you are not talking about 500 or so nuke. You are talking about the full might.


----------



## thetutle

lamdacore said:


> Take the WW2 for example. The Germans invaded successfully, deep into Soviet Union only to be held back at Stalingrad. During this time when the fighting was most extreme, Soviet Union rebuilt its forces and managed to out produce war material than Germany. The Soviets suffered heavily but because it could bring to bear its resources for the war effort and out-produced their enemies, they were able to take the fight all the way to Germany.


And unlimited supplies from the US, including one million trucks only from Detroit factories. Just from Detroit.


----------



## blueazure

8888888888888 said:


> As long as Nato doesn't interfere he will win.




javelins, NLAW, panzerfaust 3's , GROM manpads, ammo, are flowing into ukraine like butter


----------



## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> Define normal person?
> 
> Would a normal person invade another country just to base that off some "historical" believe that many don't believe in? Would a normal person bomb someone home until they are submitted? Would a normal person would much rather the entire country suffer so that he can pursuit his own agenda?
> 
> If the world is full of "Normal" person, this war would probably wouldn't even start to begin with.



Good mention.

There is no doubt that all the US/NATO leaders invading countries around the world are abnormal people with mental disorders.

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Well, people have this kind of notion described as "Robinhood Complex" in which they are pre-deposed to think they can do this without thinking about consequence. This is not a "free-for-all" zone where you can do whatever you want like it's a video game, real war is nasty, complicated, crazy for anyone who was involved.
> 
> People watch movie and play video game and think war is the same, it is far from it.



Most of the time, soldiers are just doing nothing during war.

Ukrainians already have a lot of territorials which they can't do much with, besides giving then an AK, and telling them "wait for Russians to come"

Soldiers need to be fed, supplied, and trained in use of heavy armaments, know at least basics of tactics, and driven around in some semblance of an armoured vehicle.

A single man with nothing, but small arms can only help holding cities, and only fighting similar very lightly prepared forces.

That's why Russian decision to dilute their best forces with conscripts to draw impressive size numbers spectacularly backfired.


----------



## jhungary

Enigma SIG said:


> Russia Total External Debt - 2022 Data - 2023 Forecast - 2002-2021 Historical - Chart
> 
> 
> External Debt in Russia decreased to 436.80 USD Billion in the third quarter of 2022 from 472.80 USD Billion in the second quarter of 2022. External Debt in Russia averaged 455.55 USD Billion from 2002 until 2022, reaching an all time high of 732.80 USD Billion in the second quarter of 2014 and...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tradingeconomics.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> External Debt in Russia decreased to 478.20 USD Billion in the fourth quarter of 2021 from 489.20 USD Billion in the third quarter of 2021​
> Russian's are laughing all the way to the bank here.


If I was Russian, I wouldn't be laughing.

Rouble is almost halved its value against USD, and considering USD/GBP/Euro together formed 90% of world currency reserve, which mean Russian Reserve almost halved in just 13 days, with the rest frozen, the inability of stopping Rouble from free-falling is nothing but an alarming trend for Russian Economy.


----------



## Indos

thetutle said:


> Well thats what I am asking you. Did Russia allow the west to have 315 billion USD on purpose?



That money will stay, most probably Russian will give back Ukraine after Putin is no longer Russia President. That money is not gone, just cannot be touch by Russian until they pull out from Ukraine


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> If I was Russian, I wouldn't be laughing.
> 
> Rouble is almost halved its value against USD, and considering USD/GBP/Euro together formed 90% of world currency reserve, which mean Russian Reserve almost halved in just 13 days, with the rest frozen, the inability of stopping Rouble from free-falling is nothing but an alarming trend for Russian Economy.


its not actually free falling. its kind of stabilised at the 130 mark to the USD. Proabbylbeign propped up at great expense but the Russian central bank with the 315 billion they do have access to in foreign reserves and laws preventing the purchasing of foreign currency.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Most of the time, soldiers are just doing nothing during war.
> 
> Ukrainians already have a lot of territorials which they can't do much with, besides giving then an AK, and telling them "wait for Russians to come"
> 
> Soldiers need to be fed, supplied, and trained in use of heavy armaments, know at least basics of tactics, and driven around in some semblance of an armoured vehicle.
> 
> A single man with nothing, but small arms can only help holding cities, and only fighting similar very lightly prepared forces.
> 
> That's why Russian decision to dilute their best forces with conscripts to draw impressive size numbers spectacularly backfired.


Well, it is one thing to have you tell a guy "This is a rifle, shoot everything that come thru this door" and to ask a guy to go on complex manoeuvre. 

In the military, we have a concept called "Combat Effectiveness" Which mean the actual firepower a unit can spend is directly proportion to how many people in that unit needs their hand hold. Traditionally for every wounded soldier, 2 guys have to pull from combat duty to take care of them, and if you have more wounded then you can handle, then your unit would become combat ineffective.

That's the same as any Territorial Defence Force, for every single guy who hold an AK pointing at a door, there have to be 1 or 2 guys that constantly look over them. Which make the effectiveness decrease. That is why General Mobilisation is very flown upon in any professional military.

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## RescueRanger

So now that KFC and McDonald’s have exited Russia. Perhaps it’s times for Colonel Zulfiqar to make an entry:

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## thetutle

Indos said:


> That money will stay, most probably Russian will give back Ukraine after Putin is no longer Russia President. That money is not gone, just cannot be touch by Russian until they pull out from Ukraine


Pulling out of Ukraine wil not get them that money back. Only regime change.


----------



## 8888888888888

blueazure said:


> javelins, NLAW, panzerfaust 3's , GROM manpads, ammo, are flowing into ukraine like butter


Russia will still win, they had this kind of problem in Syria and they still won.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> its not actually free falling. its kind of stabilised at the 130 mark to the USD. Proabbylbeign propped up at great expense but the Russian central bank with the 315 billion they do have access to in foreign reserves and laws preventing the purchasing of foreign currency.


Well, I would consider a currency losing 50% of its value (or close to) in just 13 days free falling. 

You and I may have a different interpretation.

But in your case, what happened if and when the domestic reserve ran out? And if this (falling 50% in 13 days) is not free falling, and that one would be.


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## Enigma SIG

jhungary said:


> If I was Russian, I wouldn't be laughing.
> 
> Rouble is almost halved its value against USD, and considering USD/GBP/Euro together formed 90% of world currency reserve, which mean Russian Reserve almost halved in just 13 days, with the rest frozen, the inability of stopping Rouble from free-falling is nothing but an alarming trend for Russian Economy.


Of course.
I was just pointing out to another poster that the USD reserves blocked do not even come close to the External Debt owed by Russia.


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## Indos

RescueRanger said:


> So now that KFC and McDonald’s have exited Russia. Perhaps it’s times for Colonel Zulfiqar to make an entry:
> 
> View attachment 822204



How can they exit ? In Indonesia the stores are owned by locals here, they just buy the franchise from KFC


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## jhungary

8888888888888 said:


> Russia will still win, they had this kind of problem in Syria and they still won.


That is the same train of thought Hitler had in April 1945 when he is in that bunker......


----------



## Indos

thetutle said:


> Pulling out of Ukraine wil not get them that money back. Only regime change.



How do you know ? Are you Biden staff in White House ??


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## jhungary

Enigma SIG said:


> Of course.
> I was just pointing out to another poster that the USD reserves blocked do not even come close to the External Debt owed by Russia.


Well, those two things are different tho. You cannot use one thing and try to go after the other.

And by the way, Debt has been frozen by Western Bank because nobody is willing to lend money to Russia, that itself is probably be the most scary part if you ask me.


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## RescueRanger

Indos said:


> How can they exit ? In Indonesia the stores are owned by locals here, they just buy the franchise from KFC


Yum foods has suspended all operations in Russia:









KFC parent Yum pausing development in Russia, a key market


Yum Brands Inc , parent company of fried chicken chain KFC, said it was pausing investment in Russia, a key market that helped the brand achieve record development last year.




www.reuters.com

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## jhungary

Indos said:


> How can they exit ? In Indonesia the stores are owned by locals here, they just buy the franchise from KFC


Franchisee own the right to use the brand name and the operation, equipment like the coke machine or ice cream machine were owned by the Franchise.

When they pull the plug, they pull the equipment away because those belong to the franchise not the person who own the license to operate

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## Enigma SIG

jhungary said:


> Well, those two things are different tho. You cannot use one thing and try to go after the other.
> 
> And by the way, Debt has been frozen by Western Bank because nobody is willing to lend money to Russia, that itself is probably be the most scary part if you ask me.


Debt can be weaponized too.
If I owe the bank 1000 dollars that's my problem.
If I owe the bank 1000 billion dollars that's the bank's problem.

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Well, I would consider a currency losing 50% of its value (or close to) in just 13 days free falling.
> 
> You and I may have a different interpretation.
> 
> But in your case, what happened if and when the domestic reserve ran out? And if this (falling 50% in 13 days) is not free falling, and that one would be.


Zimbabwe had freefalling currency. Even Turkish lira was doing worse than ruble. But yes over time, the ruble will disappear. maybe. They have resources and can make most things themselves. The rest they can smuggle. For a vast majority of people life had not been easy there but they are an incredibly developed country. Walk down any street of any town and you could be in in any European city. To some degree, isolating Russia will be like like isolating America. Not much difference.

Now they wont have Volkswagen, but they will buy Russian or Turkish cars. even cheaper.

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## jhungary

Enigma SIG said:


> Debt can be weaponized too.
> If I owe the bank 1000 dollars that's my problem.
> If I owe the bank 1000 billion dollars that's the bank's problem.


hence my point. 

Stop lending money means they stop their involvement of Russian Economy, and without the bank backing, where is the Russian money come from? 

It's like you have such a bad credit record no bank will ever issue you a loan, it would be extra difficult for you to raise money and buy stuff like a car or an apartment.


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## thetutle

Indos said:


> How do you know ? Are you Biden staff in White House ??


no, but I've seen what america does since 1991. Who has had sanctions removed and lived to tell the tale?


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Zimbabwe had freefalling currency. Even Turkish lira was doing worse than ruble. But yes over time, the ruble will disappear. maybe. They have resources and can make most things themselves. The rest they can smuggle. For a vast majority of people life had not been easy there but they are an incredibly developed country. Walk down any street of any town and you could be in in any European city. To some degree, isolating Russia will be like like isolating America. Not much difference.
> 
> Now they wont have Volkswagen, but they will buy Russian or Turkish cars. even cheaper.


They don't have a lot of resource and make thing themselves. 

And Russian is not exactly like North Korean, they have some expectation of life, and isolating Russia would mean they cannot gain access to a lot of things in life, and unless Russian fancy buying Chinese Car and only going to Minsk for vacation for the next 20-50 years, they would want to change....


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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Franchisee own the right to use the brand name and the operation, equipment like the coke machine or ice cream machine were owned by the Franchise.
> 
> When they pull the plug, they pull the equipment away because those belong to the franchise not the person who own the license to operate


They cant really go to Russia and tale the coke machine away can they?



jhungary said:


> They don't have a lot of resource and make thing themselves.
> 
> And Russian is not exactly like North Korean, they have some expectation of life, and isolating Russia would mean they cannot gain access to a lot of things in life, and unless Russian fancy buying Chinese Car and only going to Minsk for vacation for the next 20-50 years, they would want to change....


Actually, they often go to Crimea for a holiday. 

They also go to Tukery, Thailand and Vietnam. Most Russians will not even dream about going to France or UK. 

But, no they have the ability to make all the stuff they need. It will just take time. It into like Iran, or some Arab country how odnt know how to make anything. Russian scan actually make pretty much everything. Most will be pretty crap, but they will get by.

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## Viet

Fitch rating lowers Russia to C. Ruble lost 40 pct in value against USD. Russia government bonds are worth 17 cents per 1 dollar. Putin pushes the country to bankruptcy, while the war stalls.





__





Ratingagentur Fitch stuft herab: Russland steht "unmittelbar vor Zahlungsausfall" - n-tv.de


Die Ratingagentur Fitch drückt ihre Bewertung für die Kreditwürdigkeit von Russland noch tiefer in den Ramsch-Bereich. Die Bonitätsnote werde um sechs Stufen auf "C" von zuvor "B" zurückgenommen. Der erste Zahlungsausfall Russlands seit 1998 droht.



amp.n-tv.de


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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> They cant really go to Russia and tale the coke machine away can they?


Their Headquarter in Russia will, and either way, if they can't those thing will not be serviced and eventually broke down. 

Have you ever wonder why McDonald's Ice Cream machine always broken down while Hungry's Jack Frozen Coke machine always broken down? Those thing were supposed to service regularly but the Franchise people usually don't come regularly to keep the franchisee in check.

I need to stop talking about Franchise, it bring back a lot of bad memory. Even worse than my time in Iraq.....

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> I need to stop talking about Franchise, it bring back a lot of bad memory. Even worse than my time in Iraq.....


I believe you, more franchisees take their life than veterans probably.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> They cant really go to Russia and tale the coke machine away can they?
> 
> 
> Actually, they often go to Crimea for a holiday.
> 
> They also go to Tukery, Thailand and Vietnam. Most Russians will not even dream about going to France or UK.
> 
> But, no they have the ability to make all the stuff they need. It will just take time. It into like Iran, or some Arab country how odnt know how to make anything. Russian scan actually make pretty much everything. Most will be pretty crap, but they will get by.


Depends on what "things" you mean. 

Russia have capability to make primary and secondary manufacture, but they do import a lot of heavy machinery and electronic from around the world. Basic necessity, yes, they can make clothes, motors cars and so on, but anything else, they lack the capability

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## Zibago

Madni Bappa said:


> They're starting to use it a little bit now.


Its hard to get a clear picture from news as every channel is biased 



jhungary said:


> They don't have a lot of resource and make thing themselves.
> 
> And Russian is not exactly like North Korean, they have some expectation of life, and isolating Russia would mean they cannot gain access to a lot of things in life, and unless Russian fancy buying Chinese Car and only going to Minsk for vacation for the next 20-50 years, they would want to change....


Russia has mostly existed under hyper authoritarians 

I think it will not see that much public backlash as some think it would
If it could've worked Iran wouldn't be still hanging on


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## dBSPL

jamahir said:


> That is just sad. Also, I am just saddened that clear NATO propagandists like @Vergennes, @Messerschmitt, @dBSPL ( who used to be a good person ) and @F-22Raptor ( what a cringey name ) are being given a free run on this thread.


I can't say I'm not happy that I'm not in your dreams anymore.

Because you draw a profile that constantly slanders my country with completly propagative discourses, or being only parrots of a certain ideological source, and cannot leave your comfort zone in your mind.

I have never been a pro-NATO individual. I've fought this mindset my whole life. I defended my homeland on the streets of my country against the NATO gladio who tried to take over my country. During my military service, I defended my country's mountains against the NATO-backed terrorist organization. Regarding the Ukraine war: Everything I wrote, starting from the pre-war, is clear, if you want, you can browse a little in my message history. what has someone like you struggled with in your life? Green communist of my ***... Don't push your limits! You will be on my ignored list for a while.

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## Zibago

jhungary said:


> Depends on what "things" you mean.
> 
> Russia have capability to make primary and secondary manufacture, but they do import a lot of heavy machinery and electronic from around the world. Basic necessity, yes, they can make clothes, motors cars and so on, but anything else, they lack the capability


This is the number one fault of Putin 
Self reliance was a big thing in USSR and he let it go focusing only on natural resources to make things even

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> I believe you, more franchisees take their life than veterans probably.


Dude, I have more PTSD dealing with Franchise Corporate people than dealing with Iraqi Republican guard.

And this is not a joke, my family own 2 Pizza Hut (and I used to work in one when I was younger) those people are the epitome of Evil Corporation. You negotiate with them for pretty much everything, and that's after you have paid hundred of thousand of dollars in franchise fee, and they decide who get what and if they don't like you, they open 2 franchise in your area to bump you off.

You may as well just ask you for your money and then close your shop.

I mean, I can deal with Iraqi Republican Guard with my M4 and my Bradley, you can never get rid of those corporate people.

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## 8888888888888

jhungary said:


> That is the same train of thought Hitler had in April 1945 when he is in that bunker......


Russian still won in Syria and they are not losing against Ukraine.

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## jhungary

8888888888888 said:


> Russian still won in Syria and they are not losing against Ukraine.


Again, that's what Hitler said in his bunker in that April.



Zibago said:


> This is the number one fault of Putin
> Self reliance was a big thing in USSR and he let it go focusing only on natural resources to make things even


well, in all seriousness, do you think Russia have any chances against China? You can develop anything you like but you probably can never compete with China and their manufacturing capability, and you eventually would turn to China for everything you need. Pretty much it is what the world has been doing in the last 30 years..



Zibago said:


> Its hard to get a clear picture from news as every channel is biased
> 
> 
> Russia has mostly existed under hyper authoritarians
> 
> I think it will not see that much public backlash as some think it would
> If it could've worked Iran wouldn't be still hanging on


Well, not being a Russian myself, I don't know.

But what I do know is Russia is heading to the territories of North Korean level of economy, would the Russian mind? Ask them.....


----------



## jamahir

dBSPL said:


> Because you draw a profile that constantly slanders my country with completly propagative discourses, or being only parrots of a certain ideological source, and cannot leave your comfort zone in your mind.



I never slandered your country. I am not a mindless racist, you should know this. I only condemn Erdogan, his loyalists in the bureaucracy, military and intelligence. In early-to-mid-2011 when the Syria war started there was a Turkish group called Progressive Lawyers Association who took out a march demanding that Erdogan withdraw his involvement from the NATO+GCC+AQ+"M"B invasion of Syria. There are many people in Turkey who are progressive and from among them I communicated with a man on Facebook for sometime and he was a supporter of the Libyan Jamahiriya system and he told me of the obvious belief that the Ankara bombing of 2015 against a peace march that killed 109 civilians and injured 500 was arranged by Erdogan's people. That march called for calling peace talks with Kurdish militants of the PKK. Erdogan doesn't want peace in his country and in the region and in the world ( look at his support for AQ and "M"B in Libya ). Do you support him ? He is an intimate part of NATO and you said you don't support NATO. And if you don't support NATO why are you support them in the Ukraine conflict and why are you opposed to the Russian involvement ?



dBSPL said:


> During my military service, I defended my country's mountains against the NATO-backed terrorist organization.



Which is this organization ?



dBSPL said:


> How dare you question me, what has someone like you struggled with in your life? Green communist of my ***... Don't push your limits! You will be on my ignored list for a while.



How do you know if I struggled or not ? Just because you were in the military you say this ? And please don't be arrogant.



dBSPL said:


> I defended my homeland on the streets of my country against the NATO gladio who tried to take over my country.



What was this version of Gladio ?


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## beijingwalker

Russia will be hurt, but so will be the west if not more. In the long run, Russia has rich resources which everyone needs, so Russia will recover and bounce back, as for the west, if they didn't handle this crisis wisely, they will lose their centuries old global domination for good sooner than everyone expects and there'll be no bouncing back.

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> But what I do know is Russia is heading to the territories of North Korean level of economy, would the Russian mind? Ask them.....



I dont think it will get that bad for them. It will be worse but not that bad. They will be just fine. 

This comes back the the great debate about the wealth of nations. and what causes poverty. They are a European nation, a twice great empire with all the resources they could ever need. 

They cant be an Africa or Asia because they have the resources and human capital. They have a well educated capable population, they will not be living in mud begging for food handouts. 

The will mainly have trouble purchasing outside goods and wil have reduced spending power. They could even be a type of apartheid south Africa. Living quite well in their won courtly but isolated from the western world.

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## gambit

jhungary said:


> I have read the "Recruitment Application" of the international legion. It said you must have combat experience and also *your own equipment.*


Sh!t...I do not have my own F-16.

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## TNT

jhungary said:


> Don't forget Moscow is *EXTREMELY CLOSE* to Ukraine Eastern Border, It's only 390km away, it is well within any tactical nuke radioactive fall out range.



And this is the reason russia had to invade. The US and allies know this and made russia invade ukraine. The west also miscalculated many things and time will show how much they will pay for their evil plans.

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## comci

thetutle said:


> The biggest problem for EU economy will be high energy prices and hopefully it will make Germany restart those nuclear plants and coal plants. Some prices will rise, and people will deal with it.
> 
> Even if you are right, and the economy crashes. it will pale in significant to what would happen if Russian army came to the German border or any border. Or if the Russians actually occupy some European country.
> 
> *I have no doubt europeans would rather eat grass than be occupied by Russia. Because if Russia takes over we will be eating dirt, which is a lot worse than grass.*
> 
> So russia will be stopped here and the price to make that happen can be any price. It does not matter.



Speak for yourself! You are not european! you are just bosnia-australian


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## bobo6661

gambit said:


> Sh!t...I do not have my own F-16.


Didnt you know you can buy those cheap in any store in poland



TNT said:


> And this is the reason russia had to invade. The US and allies know this and made russia invade ukraine. The west also miscalculated many things and time will show how much they will pay for their evil plans.


Guess you didnt see the borders of nato with russia Estonia Latvia ... Soon maybee Finland ?


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## thetutle

comci said:


> Speak for yourself! You are not european! you are just bosnia-australian



Lol, I am a European, Bosnia is European and Australia is a European country. In even way except geography. Australia is even in Eurovision. Australia is basically a European colony.

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> But what I do know is Russia is heading to the territories of North Korean level of economy, would the Russian mind? Ask them.....



Things probably changed a bit since my last time in Russia in nineties, but I've never seen such disparity in "on paper" wealth, and reality.

My father told me we are going to see a rich country with oil, but only Moscow was rich, everything else were sticks. We only seen 1 city along the way with concrete buildings.

Very much like how North Korea been until the last Kim.

After googling pictures how most of Russia looks now, I'm it's surprised how little has changed given the amount of oil they have.

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## jhungary

TNT said:


> And this is the reason russia had to invade. The US and allies know this and made russia invade ukraine. The west also miscalculated many things and time will show how much they will pay for their evil plans.


Well, I will say this to whoever said Ukrainian proximity is the reason why Russian Invade.

People seems to forget Latvia is as close as Eastern Ukraine if not even closer, the reason that NATO or US wanted Ukraine to set up missile on Russia toward Moscow is absurd, why do it when they can already deploy missile on Latvia and Estonia (which is only 20 km further away from Latvia)

The West gain literally nothing for Russia to invade Ukraine, in fact, Russia themselves gain nothing from Invading Ukraine in term of strategic standpoint, in fact, invading Ukraine would make Russia Position even worse, because it increase NATO border from 2 to 6 (7 if Finland is joining) which added 1000s of kilometre of NATO border. And it also stimulate NATO spending on Military, all that in exchange for a re-2014 Ukraine, and that is if they can take it, assuming the Russian do not need to fight an insurgency. Which is almost certainly coming.


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## Gul_Khan_Peshawar

thetutle said:


> The biggest problem for EU economy will be high energy prices and hopefully it will make Germany restart those nuclear plants and coal plants. Some prices will rise, and people will deal with it.
> 
> Even if you are right, and the economy crashes. it will pale in significant to what would happen if Russian army came to the German border or any border. Or if the Russians actually occupy some European country.
> 
> I have no doubt europeans would rather *eat grass* than be occupied by Russia. Because if Russia takes over we will be eating dirt, which is a lot worse than grass.
> 
> So russia will be stopped here and the price to make that happen can be any price. It does not matter.


 
Eating grass is not an expression an Australian would use. Dude, are you sure you're actually not Krishna Kumar?

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## thetutle

Gul_Khan_Peshawar said:


> Eating grass is not an expression an Australian would use. Dude, are you sure you're actually not Krishna Kumar?


you got me, I am actually an Indian Australian. Im typing from a 7/11.

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## TNT

Its funny how the western media have dumbed the people with their propaganda. People actually believe russia will become north korea lolz. Russia have the largest land mass, the largest natural resources and the technology to extract those resources. Countries like Venezuela struggle because they lack the technology to extract their resources. Russia can not only independently extract its natural resources but also use them in their industry. Russia produces its own food and medicine, along with weapons. The sanctions will only affect the rich people who cant get their imported stuff but the rest it wont matter much. Also not to forget russia have allies and friends as well, the largest being china. Apart from that, central asia, iran, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Turkey and other Europeans will trade with Russia. With every passing day we can see the western propaganda intensifying and the pro west ppl here getting desperate, shows they see the writing on the wall.

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## retaxis

Gul_Khan_Peshawar said:


> Eating grass is not an expression an Australian would use. Dude, are you sure you're actually not Krishna Kumar?


The guy is a little pro west troll who often gets banned then comes back spewing more fascist western ideas.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> I dont think it will get that bad for them. It will be worse but not that bad. They will be just fine.
> 
> This comes back the the great debate about the wealth of nations. and what causes poverty. They are a European nation, a twice great empire with all the resources they could ever need.
> 
> They cant be an Africa or Asia because they have the resources and human capital. They have a well educated capable population, they will not be living in mud begging for food handouts.
> 
> The will mainly have trouble purchasing outside goods and wil have reduced spending power. They could even be a type of apartheid south Africa. Living quite well in their won courtly but isolated from the western world.


Well, the "Lifeline" for Russia is their oil and gas industry, which EU is actively finding a way to leave the Russian controlled oil and gas, without that, there are nothing Russia can offer other than resource and commodity which largely depends on Western Market, their economy has already shrink to almost halved even before the war. Things will not "Automatically" be alright. 

And judging from the way this war is handle, the Russian is going to be more engaged to Civilian Population, which mean this may attract more sanction.....

The same is said when Cuba hunkerdown with the embargo and sanction issued by the US during the Cuban Missile crisis, a highly educated population alone is useless, you need trading partner, and Russia cannot replace EU with China, and China most likely would not be interested to bail Russian out of this one.



gambit said:


> Sh!t...I do not have my own F-16.


Body Armor and Helmet dude. Or Combat Boots.


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## thetutle

retaxis said:


> The guy is a little pro west troll who often gets banned


I am pro western because I live in the west, and my future kind of depends on the west being successful. Not at the expense of others, but in a fair way. 

I am naturally mind boggled at the Russian invasion and its failure is necessary for my family and I in Europe and Australia to succeed and prosper. This is why I am glued to these events, 

And if you live in the west I suggest you try being a bit more pro western also.

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## Gul_Khan_Peshawar

thetutle said:


> you got me, I am actually an Indian Australian. Im typing from a 7/11.


Great. Can you please take those slurpees off the store? They are as unhealthy as they're addictive. Thanks.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501517822043865089

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501519621492510720

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## TNT

jhungary said:


> Well, I will say this to whoever said Ukrainian proximity is the reason why Russian Invade.
> 
> People seems to forget Latvia is as close as Eastern Ukraine if not even closer, the reason that NATO or US wanted Ukraine to set up missile on Russia toward Moscow is absurd, why do it when they can already deploy missile on Latvia and Estonia (which is only 20 km further away from Latvia)
> 
> The West gain literally nothing for Russia to invade Ukraine, in fact, Russia themselves gain nothing from Invading Ukraine in term of strategic standpoint, in fact, invading Ukraine would make Russia Position even worse, because it increase NATO border from 2 to 6 (7 if Finland is joining) which added 1000s of kilometre of NATO border. And it also stimulate NATO spending on Military, all that in exchange for a re-2014 Ukraine, and that is if they can take it, assuming the Russian do not need to fight an insurgency. Which is almost certainly coming.



The US actually did gain and wanted this to happen. Yes latvia border is near but that does not mean its ok for NATO to gain more. Ukraine becoming NATO means encircling russia and not just that but squeezing russia in the black sea too. The black sea wouldve practically belonged to NATO had Ukraine joined. Tje west was expanding NATO and at some point Russia had to step in, though the Russians did wait alot and wanted to avoid war bit they were forced by US and allies.

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## unrequitted_love_suzy

it's funny how people get excited when something is going on in Eastern Europe.
btw the started of this thread was Turkish .


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## retaxis

thetutle said:


> I am pro western because I live in the west, and my future kind of depends on the west being successful. Not at the expense of others, but in a fair way.
> 
> I am naturally mind boggled at the Russian invasion and its failure is necessary for my family and I in Europe and Australia to succeed and prosper. This is why I am glued to these events,
> 
> And if you live in the west I suggest you try being a bit more pro western also.


I am not a mindless sheep and can think for myself. What is best for me is a strong united Asia led by China. Australia is already an Eurasian country as it is and as time goes it will be more Asian then European so why the hell would we support white fascists?

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Things probably changed a bit since my last time in Russia in nineties, but I've never seen such disparity in "on paper" wealth, and reality.
> 
> My father told me we are going to see a rich country with oil, but only Moscow was rich, everything else were sticks. We only seen 1 city along the way with concrete buildings.
> 
> Very much like how North Korea been until the last Kim.
> 
> After googling pictures how most of Russia looks now, I'm it's surprised how little has changed given the amount of oil they have.


Well, according to IMF, average Russia earn less than an Average Indian, so they are below Indian level now, and they are about 2/3 of what an Indian earn, and that is BEFORE this war. Now imagine what it will be look like when 70% of world economy stop trading with you?


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## comci

thetutle said:


> Lol, I am a European, Bosnia is European and Australia is a European country. In even way except geography. Australia is even in Eurovision. Australia is basically a European colony.



Let me put this differently: Your claimed that European would rather eat grass than live under putin which is a big joke on your part. West-European citizen dont care about Easten Europan. Average western european see everyone in balkan countries and East-Europe as ex-sovjet commie countries with so much corruption and backward culture. Why do you think there is so much racist attitude against those immigrants from balkan, baltic states and East Europe in western europe countries?
I live in the Netherlands and i can tell you average dutch hate the war, rejected Ukraine as EU member in 2016 referendum and oppose sending war materials to Ukraine. Dutch prime minister with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz oppose sanctioning the oil and gas from Russia. Why is that? It is because these western european countries refuse to *eat local grass* unlike what you claimed. 
Frankly these 2 countries that care about the economic and social stability are at least honest with their opinion unlike France, Italy and other countries that depend on Russian oil and gas for their economy but pretend all is well and gone well.

European leaders wary of cutting off Russian oil and gas​
Quickly cutting off energy revenues with oil and gas embargoes would hit Moscow where it hurts. But European leaders have argued for a phased approach, openly admitting their dependency on Russian energy supplies.








Germany's dependence on Russian gas is complicating moves to put pressure on Moscow

The leaders of Germany, the United Kingdom and the Netherlands on Monday said Europe was too dependent on Russian energy supplies to stop imports overnight as part of any eventual sanctions package in response to the invasion of Ukraine.

Energy exports are a key source of income for Russia, and there are growing calls for oil and gas embargoes to increase pressure on the Kremlin.

However, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said that although Berlin supported tough measures against Moscow, Russian energy supplies remained "essential" for daily life in Europe.

"Europe's supply with energy for heating, for mobility, power supply and for industry cannot at the moment be secured otherwise," Scholz said in a statement.

Russia is the largest supplier of natural gas to Germany, currently accounting for more than half of imports, according to the government. Gas accounts for around a fifth of German power production.



Watch video 04:54

Germany's gas addiction 'a European problem'​ 

A 'step-by-step' process​ 
On Monday, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson said cutting dependency on Russian oil and gas was "the right thing to do," however it must be done in a "step by step" process.


"We have got to make sure we have substitute supply. One of the things we are looking at is the possibility of using more of our own hydrocarbons," Johnson told a press conference following talks with his Dutch and Canadian counterparts in London.


Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced a halt to Russian oil imports last week. However, Canada is the world's fourth-largest oil producer and its imports from Russia were comparatively negligible.


Although the UK relies much less on Russian gas than other countries in Europe, Johnson said it was important that "everyone moves in the same direction."


"There are different dependencies in different countries, and we have to mindful of that," he said. "You can't simply close down the use of oil and gas overnight, even from Russia." 


Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte told the press conference that weaning Europe off Russian energy would "take time" and it was a "painful reality" that Europeans were still "very much dependent" on Russian gas and oil.


EU looking for alternatives to Russia


German Chancellor Scholz said this dependency was why Europe had "deliberately exempted" Russian energy supplies from sanctions packages, allowing commercial activities in the energy sector to continue.


Scholz added that Germany and its partners in the EU had been working "at full speed" for months to develop alternatives to Russian energy. "However, this cannot be done overnight," he said.


Last week, Germany said it would take steps to diversify its energy supply away from Russia, announcing a €1.5 billion ($1.6 billion) order for non-Russian liquefied natural gas and a possible slowdown of its exit from coal.




Watch video 02:56

Russia's Gazprom lets Yamal pipeline to Europe dry up​ 

At a summit planned for Thursday in France, EU leaders are expected to declare a gradual "phaseout" of oil and gas imports from Russia. The European Commission is also expected to release a plan this week on reducing its dependence on Russian gas.


US wants quicker action​ 
For the United States, Europe's gradual approach may be too slow.


Washington is pushing for a more immediate ban on Russian energy imports, although as a major producer of gas and oil, the US is far less dependent on Russian sources than Europe.


As US legislators discussed fast-tracking an oil embargo from Russia, US President Joe Biden held a video conference Monday with the leaders of Germany, France, Germany and the UK. The four European leaders only pledged to "continue raising the costs on Russia for its unprovoked and unjustified invasion," without specifying how.









European leaders wary of cutting off Russian oil, gas – DW – 03/07/2022


Quickly cutting off energy revenues with oil and gas embargoes would hit Moscow where it hurts. But European leaders have argued for a phased approach, openly admitting their dependency on Russian energy supplies.




www.dw.com

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## unrequitted_love_suzy

btw look at 'Americas' , subForum. look how much the far easterners are happy to see Russians and Ukrainians kill each other.


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## thetutle

retaxis said:


> Australia is already an Eurasian country as it is and as time goes it will be more Asian then European so why the hell would we support white fascists?


only because they run the country and have laws where they can take your citizenship away for being against the government. Thats all.


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## RescueRanger

*More drones:*


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## jhungary

TNT said:


> The US actually did gain and wanted this to happen. Yes latvia border is near but that does not mean its ok for NATO to gain more. Ukraine becoming NATO means encircling russia and not just that but squeezing russia in the black sea too. The black sea wouldve practically belonged to NATO had Ukraine joined. Tje west was expanding NATO and at some point Russia had to step in, though the Russians did wait alot and wanted to avoid war bit they were forced by US and allies.


Things is, Russia has *ALREADY* been surrounded by 3 sides by NATO (Latvia and Estonia in the West, Alaska in the East and Turkey in the South). And about to be all 4 if and when Finland joining, which is very likely (as last poll a week ago show 58% of Finnish support) Invading and Occupying Ukraine does not change this fact.

NATO is not an equal organisation, which mean other than the people who actually do support NATO in a meaningful manner (ie US, UK and France) everyone else is a liability, which mean the more the country signed up, the more liability because people are not about to fight themselves and asking for other to fight for them, that is the reason why people join NATO. Ie the more people join, the more people US, UK and France needed to protect.

As for Black sea, Turkey, not Ukraine hold the cards there, because it sat on the exit of Black Seas, if you cannot transit from Black Sea into the Med, then it is useless because without Turkey (which was in NATO) okay, Black Seas is just an inland lake.

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> Well, according to IMF, average Russia earn less than an Average Indian, so they are below Indian level now, and they are about 2/3 of what an Indian earn, and that is BEFORE this war. Now imagine what it will be look like when 70% of world economy stop trading with you?



Can you show us an official source where it says that an average Russian earns less that an average Indian? Or is just some made up stuff from you?

That would be interesting to see.

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## obj 705A

coffee_cup said:


> Can you show us an official source where it says that an average Russian earns less that an average Indian? Or is just some made up stuff from you?
> 
> That would be interesting to see.


The source is his backside.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501519184806973441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501514068296880133


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## dBSPL

The gist of what I wrote probably 50 times here and in a few other threads was this: The United States did not thwart Putin's ideal, but, adopted a strategy of forcing him into a much more risky preterm birth. For this purpose US(and UK) made warmongering and got what it wanted. Now there is terrible pressure on Europe. The USA will definitely not take part in this war, but will watch the fire from the best place.

Russian air force and ground aviation lost nearly 100 aircraft in 2 weeks. May thousands of soldiers died... The Russian economy shrank by half in two weeks and lost access to a large number of intermediates and subproducts, services especially critical for the defense industry and the oil-gas industries. An isolation unseen even in the cold war is emerging. It aims to cut off all of Russia's arms in Europe and leave it dependent on China.

March 10 could be a critical day. If Russia sees the trap, albeit late, it can create an honorable way out with Turkey's support. Will Russia have to destroy Ukraine, for what? It is not possible for the destruction to create more than Pyrrhus victory for Russia. But before it's too late, it can still thwart the US's European hegemony - with some cost- .

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## RescueRanger

Slovakia:

Another war monument to Red Army soldiers who liberated the city of Bratislava from Nazi occupation was vandalised yesterday







Say what you will - curse the Russians - make memes but for gods sake leave war monuments alone.

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## thetutle

comci said:


> West-European citizen dont care about Easten Europan.


They care enough to admit them into EU and and have no border with them and have a single currency together, because they realise that having an iron curtain in Europe is very destructive. 



comci said:


> Average western european see everyone in balkan countries and East-Europe as ex-sovjet commie countries with so much corruption and backward culture. Why do you think there is so much racist attitude against those immigrants from balkan, baltic states and East Europe in western europe countries?


I dont know about this. There is nationalism in every country, but I cant say I have never received any bad treatment in any western european country. I also have friends and relatives all over Europe and they dont share that view. This obviously does not change the fact that western europe is more developed than post communist Europe. And its people tend to be a little more polite and cultured. 


comci said:


> I live in the Netherlands and i can tell you average dutch hate the war, rejected Ukraine as EU member in 2016 referendum and oppose sending war materials to Ukraine. Dutch prime minister with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz oppose sanctioning the oil and gas from Russia. Why is that? It is because these western european countries refuse to *eat local grass* unlike what you claimed


The Dutch might care a lot less because they know they will be last country to fall to the Russian empire. But ask Germans in Leipzig if they want to be a part of a Russian puppet state? or if they want to be in a free democratic Germany? No, I assure you they wil fight to the end and the fight is on now. There are volunteers from all over Europe risking their lives to save Ukraine. 

Russians have tried this strategy of division, to try and divide Europe so they can have their way. Its not going to work, you can see that in the actions of the EU governments and the people.

Europe is united like never before. This was unimaginable 12 days ago.


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## TNT

thetutle said:


> I am pro western because I live in the west, and my future kind of depends on the west being successful. Not at the expense of others, but in a fair way.
> 
> I am naturally mind boggled at the Russian invasion and its failure is necessary for my family and I in Europe and Australia to succeed and prosper. This is why I am glued to these events,
> 
> And if you live in the west I suggest you try being a bit more pro western also.



@retaxis he is actually one of the sane and realistic pro western posters. Look at how delusional others are like @F22Raptor and he is Indonesian lolz. 

You being a bosnian should know it were the eastern countries that came to ur help when everyone abandoned u. In turn, u ppl should have turned east and established strong relations but instead u joined NATO and want to join EU.

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## comci

thetutle said:


> They care enough to admit them into EU and and have no border with them and have a single currency together, because they realise that having an iron curtain in Europe is very destructive.
> 
> 
> I dont know about this. There is nationalism in every country, but I cant say I have never received any bad treatment in any western european country. I also have friends and relatives all over Europe and they dont share that view. This obviously does not change the fact that western europe is more developed than post communist Europe. And its people tend to be a little more polite and cultured.
> 
> The Dutch might care a lot less because they know they will be last country to fall to the Russian empire. But ask Germans in Leipzig if they want to be a part of a Russian puppet state? or if they want to be in a free democratic Germany? No, I assure you they wil fight to the end and the fight is on now. There are volunteers from all over Europe risking their lives to save Ukraine.
> 
> Russians have tried this strategy of division, to try and divide Europe so they can have their way. Its not going to work, you can see that in the actions of the EU governments and the people.
> 
> Europe is united like never before. This was unimaginable 12 days ago.



Sure...If you believe in your fairy tale. I am going to teach you a lesson in EU history. EU was a economic cooperation between West-european countries to advance their common economy which they believe will lead to common prosperity. The organisation founded in 1957 which is now known as the European Union, originally had six members: *Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg and the Netherlands*. After the fall of the Sovjet Union, there was some sense to include eastern europe into the EU for common prosperity. The idea was: ''making money and not wars''. 

The problem with this line of thinking was that the Western European countries were/are more advance whether economy, technology,social, political system etc than their Eastern Europe counter parts. It would be impossible to make backwards countries like Eastern European countries to be advance as Western Europe in short terms. So there need to be put more money in education, technology, social, justice system etc by Western EU members to Eastern EU members. Decades of experience has shown that until now East-Europe is a failed story whether in politic or economic sense. 
Political failure because Eastern Europe always followed USA orders instead of consulting with Western Europe counterparts. Anyone remember when USA defence secretary Rumsfeld try to divide the EU by claiming Old Europe=Western Europe didnt matter? And what did Eastern Europe did? Nothing at all, and smiling bcause they think they will be the new EU power backed by USA. Foolish folks. See Iraq war
Anger at Rumsfeld attack on 'old Europe'​Transatlantic row as Berlin and Paris hit back at US defence chief


John Hooper in Berlin and Ian Black in Brussels
Fri 24 Jan 2003 02.06 GMT


Transatlantic differences over Iraq turned bitterly personal yesterday as political leaders in France and Germany hit back at the US defence secretary's dismissal of their cherished alliance as representing "old Europe".
So heated was the response to Donald Rumsfeld's remarks, particularly and all the more surprisingly on the right, that the French president, Jacques Chirac, appealed for calm.

Nato's secretary-general, George Robertson, also tried to play down the rift, insisting that there was no row within the military alliance over providing logistical and other support for US-led action against Iraq. He said Washington's European allies were divided only over timing of action.
But Germany's foreign minister, Joschka Fischer, confirmed that Berlin was working on a plan aimed at slowing the drift to war. The German representative on the UN security council is to call for a further report from the weapons inspectors to be delivered in mid-February.
"We want them to continue working," Mr Fischer said after he and his French counterpart, Dominique de Villepin, had appeared before a joint session of their countries' parliamentary foreign affairs committees. "If they are to continue working, then they must also report."
Shortly afterwards, he set off on a visit to Turkey, Egypt and Jordan in search of a peaceful solution to the crisis.
In responding to a reporter's question about French and German qualms, Mr Rumsfeld hinted on Wednesday that Washington would turn to Nato's new members in eastern Europe for support.
"You're thinking of Europe as Germany and France. I don't," he said. "I think that's old Europe. If you look at the entire Nato Europe today, the centre of gravity is shifting to the east and there are a lot of new members."
Mr Chirac's spokeswoman, Catherine Colonna, said the president, who was visiting Berlin to celebrate the 40th anniversary of the Franco-German friendship treaty, wanted to see the debate over Mr Rumsfeld's remarks "take place with seriousness and calmness". But back in Paris, the tone was one of spluttering outrage.
"If you knew what I felt like telling Mr. Rumsfeld ... " the ecology minister, Roselyne Bachelot, told a radio interviewer, before resorting to a well-known regional expression for a four-letter word. Her cabinet colleague, the finance minister, Francis Mer, said he was "profoundly vexed".
Even the reaction of the government's official spokesman, Jean-François Copé, was distinctly sardonic. Mr Rumsfeld would do well to listen to "old Europe", he said.
"When one is an old continent, a continent with an old historic, cultural and economic tradition, one can sometimes inherit a certain wisdom, and wisdom can be a good adviser," he said.
Germany's centre-left government, which has had troubled relations with the US since last summer when the chancellor, Gerhard Schröder, ruled out German involvement in a war, made no official comment. The general secretary of the chancellor's Social Democratic party was critical, but restrained. "Rumsfeld does not understand Europe," said Olaf Scholz. "It is good to heed Europe."
By far the strongest response came from the arch-conservative Bavarian Christian Social Union. Its spokesman on European affairs, Bernd Posselt, accused Mr Rumsfeld of "neo-colonialism". He added: "The US has to learn that the European Union is a partner and not a protectorate."
Washington last week formally asked its allies to help defend Turkey and provide Awac radar planes and ships to patrol the Mediterranean. But on Wednesday, Nato ambassadors postponed a decision on military planning after objections from Germany, France and other states worried about a slide towards war.
"We have not yet achieved a consensus on proposals that have been put forward," Lord Robertson admitted. "There is a disagreement on timing by a small number of nations, but there is no disagreement on substance. This is not some sort of bust-up."
But diplomats in Brussels said last night that Germany was unlikely to approve the same wish-list as long as the arms inspections were continuing.
"We knew the Germans had a problem, but we were surprised that the French joined them," said one alliance official. Washington also wants to use Nato planning facilities and equipment and has suggested it could play a role in postwar humanitarian operations in Iraq, as it has done in Afghanistan.
The EU divisions are likely to resurface when foreign ministers meet in Brussels next Monday, hours before Hans Blix, the chief weapons inspector, presents his long-awaited report to the UN security council.









Anger at Rumsfeld attack on 'old Europe'


Transatlantic row as Berlin and Paris hit back at US defence chief.




www.theguardian.com





Economic failure: No progression at all, even China which start more or less at the same, has progressed leap and bound.
Had Western Europe realised how different and challenging East Europe was in the 20th century, there would be no direct EU members for East European countries like Bulgaria,Romania, Hungaria, Poland etc. Membership will only be allowed based on EU criteria which some countries in balkan still struggle to fulfill. Even then it is still the matter of voting, which Western European countries still hold the weight unlike their Eastern European counterpart.

To avoid being played out by USA, France proposed to make the EU smaller to their origin members because France like Western Europe see East-Europe, Balkan, Baltic states as backward corrupt beggar countries that have nothing substantial to offers. Take a look at recent proposal to make Ukraine direct member of EU. Here in the Netherlands, you will find nobody who want Ukraine being member of EU because of the moneypit story and corruption etc.

Some EU Nations Balk at Push to Advance Ukraine’s Membership Bid​
Nine nations have asked EU to grant Ukraine candidate status
Germany among those looking to buy time before taking decision





Volodymyr Zelenskiy speaks in Kyiv on March 3.
Photographer: Sergei Supinksky/AFP/Getty Images
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Several western European Union countries are pushing back against calls for the bloc to grant Ukraine so-called candidate status this week, a first step on the long road to EU membership, according to several diplomats.
Germany, the Netherlands and others first want the EU’s executive arm to deliver its opinion on Ukraine’s readiness for the membership process before taking a political decision, said the diplomats, describing private discussions taking place ahead of a summit in France this week. Those countries want to focus on delivering practical support to Ukraine and ending the war rather than embarking on a process that could take at least a decade, one of the diplomats said.

Countries in favor of the proposal argue that it would be symbolically important for EU leaders to put their weight behind Ukraine’s bid, even if the actual membership process itself remains long and complicated.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy formally applied to join the EU at the end of last month and nine member states from central and eastern Europe, led by Poland and the three Baltic nations, have publicly called on the bloc to grant Ukraine candidate status and start the accession process.
EU leaders are due to discuss Ukraine’s request when they meet over two days near Paris starting Thursday. 

EU Club​ 
The European Union began with six members and now has 27



Source: European Commission, Bloomberg

Note: The U.K. joined in 1973 and left in 2020

The leaders could decide to back Ukraine’s candidate status and start the long process of negotiating full membership, they could buy time by punting the issue to the European Commission, or they could find a compromise position, such as recognizing that Ukraine has a long-term relationship with the EU without formally backing its candidate status.

“There is still a long path ahead. We have to end this war. And we should talk about the next steps,” Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said last week to the European Parliament. “But nobody can doubt that a people that stands up so bravely for our European values belongs in our European family.”



Leaders at the summit may ask the commission to provide an opinion on Ukraine’s candidacy faster than usual, in a show of political support for Kyiv, EU diplomats said. The process usually lasts between 15 and 18 months.

But even coming up with an opinion would be a fraught undertaking amid an invasion, as it involves the commission sending a lengthy list of questions to the government, and dispatching fact-finding missions to the country.
Read More: NATO Faces Reality of Emboldened Russia on Its Doorstep

A diplomat from one of the countries opposed to making Ukraine a candidate said their government was wary of offering false expectations and Kyiv isn’t ready to begin the formal accession process. Some countries in western Europe are concerned about further expansion after long-running disputes over the rule of law with newer members such as Hungary and Poland, as well as how other long-standing candidates in the Balkans would view a preferential approach for Ukraine. 
Gaining EU membership is an arduous process requiring dozens of criteria to be met -- from the rule of law to judicial reforms -- and can take more than a decade. Croatia was the last country to join the bloc and its application lasted 10 years before it was formally accepted in 2013. Starting the process requires the unanimous approval of all EU member states, the European Commission and the European Parliament.










Some EU Nations Balk at Push to Advance Ukraine’s Membership Bid







www.bloomberg.com






*I am dealing with facts, numbers and not wishes.*

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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> Can you show us an official source where it says that an average Russian earns less that an average Indian? Or is just some made up stuff from you?
> 
> That would be interesting to see.


Can't find the IMF report I read some days ago.

But here are what Wikipedia show under "Average Gross Salary"









Economy of Russia - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org












Economy of India - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Which show similar figure, go dispute their source if you want.


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## thetutle

TNT said:


> You being a bosnian should know it were the eastern countries that came to ur help when everyone abandoned u. In turn, u ppl should have turned east and established strong relations but instead u joined NATO and want to join EU.


NATO gave us a "no fly zone" at the start of the bosnain war. Your anti tank missiles saved thousands of lives, but No fly zone was absolutely essential. What ukranians would give for a no fly zone. 

Of course we wil join EU and NATO. EU is about trade and our trading partners are Germany, Italy, Austria, Croatia and Serbia. We aren't going to join ASEAN. we can't. 

And NATO, well, seeing what is happening, if you were a Bosnian wouldn't you want to Jon NATO now? or you want to be like Ukraine?


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## dBSPL

unrequitted_love_suzy said:


> it's funny how people get excited when something is going on in Eastern Europe.
> btw the started of this thread was Turkish .


Turkey is a neighbor of both countries by sea. Responsible for the execution of the Montreux convention. The 'officially' (no longer practically) eastern flank of NATO. Russia and Turkey are among the most important trade partners of each other, and Ukraine is also Turkey's solution partner in critical areas. There are thousands of Turkish businesses in Ukraine. Ukraine is the homeland of about 2 million people living in Turkey, and even now, about half a million descendants live in Ukraine. Do you think these are valid reasons for an ordinary Turkish citizen to follow this issue closely?

Hundreds of messages have been written, but I have not seen any such implication in any of them. Why exactly might it bother you that this thread was opened by a Turk?

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Ukraine is suggesting the Syrian stalemate model with the exact same 3 state actors playing the guaraantors.. The same treepeat..

This was suggested by Zelenskyy himself as NATO membership won't be possible for the next 15 years hence bringing in the same Syrian actors that has agreed on 3 part partition. Namely America, Turkey and Russia. I assume Russia will hold onto the eastern parts from Odessa to Luhansk main while US and Turkish armed forces joint will ethablish a secure state for the Ukrainians on the western side of Ukraine and there shall be no doubt of another russian invasion this time they are under guraantee.

But this will not be 3 part partition but rather 2 part partition. A Russian zone and Turkish-American Zone. All 3 work as guraantors basically.

Alternative to NATO proposed by Zelensky's party​The Servant of the People Party is proposing to sign a new security agreement for Ukraine with the United States, Turkey and Russia instead of NATO membership.​
With ongoing negotiations between Ukraine and Russia, Zelensky's Servant of the People Party has proposed a new security agreement as an alternative to the country joining NATO. The party believes that in such an agreement, the guarantors may be the United States, Turkey, and neighboring countries – even including Russia.


By signing such an agreement, Russia will allegedly have legal obligations to recognize Ukrainian statehood and refrain from threatening the Ukrainian people and government.


The party acknowledges that such an agreement may seem absurd given the current situation, but insists that the new treaty will set out specific steps taken by other guarantor states against the violating party.



"The alliance is not ready to accept Ukraine for at least the next 15 years, and it clearly says so. We do not even have support in a completely just war from the alliance - only from individual states." A party spokesperson said.


"As it is impossible to join NATO in the coming years, we cannot use only the lines of the Constitution [expressing our desire to join NATO on our] course to the alliance, to defend our country," he said. "The course is politics – but not weapons, not planes, not state protection."






In addition, the party gave assurance that in no case will Ukraine cede its claim to Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk nor agree to any ultimatums on its sovereignty and territorial integrity.


"We hear Russia's demand to recognize the so-called "DNR" and "LNR", [Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics, and] to recognize the occupation of Crimea." The party claimed. "It is clear that we will not do that. But we need to decide how the lives of people in these territories will be regulated within our integral state."









Alternative to NATO proposed by Zelensky's party


The Servant of the People Party is proposing to sign a new security agreement for Ukraine with the United States, Turkey and Russia instead of NATO membership.




www.jpost.com

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## TNT

thetutle said:


> NATO gave us a "no fly zone" at the start of the bosnain war. Your anti tank missiles saved thousands of lives, but No fly zone was absolutely essential. What ukranians would give for a no fly zone.
> 
> Of course we wil join EU and NATO. EU is about trade and our trading partners are Germany, Italy, Austria, Croatia and Serbia. We aren't going to join ASEAN. we can't.
> 
> And NATO, well, seeing what is happening, if you were a Bosnian wouldn't you want to Jon NATO now? or you want to be like Ukraine?



You guys are putting all ur eggs in one basket now. They provided a no fly zone because they knew it wont stop the serbs from butchering u. You are free to choose what u want but be prepared to be betrayed by the west and this time, no help may arrive from east.

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## Madni Bappa

TNT said:


> You guys are putting all ur eggs in one basket now. They provided a no fly zone because they knew it wont stop the serbs from butchering u. You are free to choose what u want but be prepared to be betrayed by the west and this time, no help may arrive from east.


A lot of Muslim bosniaks I encountered are nice. While those who believe in their white European superiority are aholes.

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## TNT

jhungary said:


> Things is, Russia has *ALREADY* been surrounded by 3 sides by NATO (Latvia and Estonia in the West, Alaska in the East and Turkey in the South). And about to be all 4 if and when Finland joining, which is very likely (as last poll a week ago show 58% of Finnish support) Invading and Occupying Ukraine does not change this fact.
> 
> NATO is not an equal organisation, which mean other than the people who actually do support NATO in a meaningful manner (ie US, UK and France) everyone else is a liability, which mean the more the country signed up, the more liability because people are not about to fight themselves and asking for other to fight for them, that is the reason why people join NATO. Ie the more people join, the more people US, UK and France needed to protect.
> 
> As for Black sea, Turkey, not Ukraine hold the cards there, because it sat on the exit of Black Seas, if you cannot transit from Black Sea into the Med, then it is useless because without Turkey (which was in NATO) okay, Black Seas is just an inland lake.



So first u say the west gains nothing and now say russia is encircled. The east is too far away and the south is Turkey which wont fight for NATO against Russia, even NATO knows this. Turkey will also not block the passage for russia as now the black sea is practically half russian and half Turkish. This only leaves the west and north, Ukraine is already taken care of and the Russians will focus and defend the north and north west. 
Its funny how westerners were bad-mouthing Turkey until very recently, u think turks will forget? They will forget the attempted coup and economic war? Along with US support to kurds?

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Ukraine is suggesting the Syrian stalemate model with the exact same 3 state actors playing the guaraantors.. The same treepeat..
> 
> This was suggested by Zelenskyy himself as NATO membership won't be possible for the next 15 years hence bringing in the same Syrian actors that has agreed on 3 part partition. Namely America, Turkey and Russia. I assume Russia will hold onto the eastern parts from Odessa to Luhansk main while US and Turkish armed forces joint will ethablish a secure state for the Ukrainians on the western side of Ukraine and there shall be no doubt of another russian invasion this time they are under guraantee.
> 
> But this will not be 3 part partition but rather 2 part partition. A Russian zone and Turkish-American Zone. All 3 work as guraantors basically.
> 
> Alternative to NATO proposed by Zelensky's party​The Servant of the People Party is proposing to sign a new security agreement for Ukraine with the United States, Turkey and Russia instead of NATO membership.​
> With ongoing negotiations between Ukraine and Russia, Zelensky's Servant of the People Party has proposed a new security agreement as an alternative to the country joining NATO. The party believes that in such an agreement, the guarantors may be the United States, Turkey, and neighboring countries – even including Russia.
> 
> 
> By signing such an agreement, Russia will allegedly have legal obligations to recognize Ukrainian statehood and refrain from threatening the Ukrainian people and government.
> 
> 
> The party acknowledges that such an agreement may seem absurd given the current situation, but insists that the new treaty will set out specific steps taken by other guarantor states against the violating party.
> 
> 
> 
> "The alliance is not ready to accept Ukraine for at least the next 15 years, and it clearly says so. We do not even have support in a completely just war from the alliance - only from individual states." A party spokesperson said.
> 
> 
> "As it is impossible to join NATO in the coming years, we cannot use only the lines of the Constitution [expressing our desire to join NATO on our] course to the alliance, to defend our country," he said. "The course is politics – but not weapons, not planes, not state protection."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In addition, the party gave assurance that in no case will Ukraine cede its claim to Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk nor agree to any ultimatums on its sovereignty and territorial integrity.
> 
> 
> "We hear Russia's demand to recognize the so-called "DNR" and "LNR", [Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics, and] to recognize the occupation of Crimea." The party claimed. "It is clear that we will not do that. But we need to decide how the lives of people in these territories will be regulated within our integral state."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alternative to NATO proposed by Zelensky's party
> 
> 
> The Servant of the People Party is proposing to sign a new security agreement for Ukraine with the United States, Turkey and Russia instead of NATO membership.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com



Russia is even desparately going for Odessa and honestly if anyone of you think that Russia will ever vacate cities like Odessa and everything all the way to Luhansk to Ukraine then you are being naive.

What can now be saved is the western portion of the country with a solid guaraante where guraantors will directly deploy on the ground each around 5000-10000 forces along the friction line and the newly deconfliction lines that will be ethablished as borders between Russian held areas and Ukrainian held areas.

Ukraine will be able to safely rebuild on the western side without ever doubting again a Russian invasion again as there are guaraantors on the ground now and Russia is bound by the deal also

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> Can't find the IMF report I read some days ago.



So there is no official IMF report and you made it up?

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## jhungary

TNT said:


> So first u say the west gains nothing and now say russia is encircled. The east is too far away and the south is Turkey which wont fight for NATO against Russia, even NATO knows this. Turkey will also not block the passage for russia as now the black sea is practically half russian and half Turkish. This only leaves the west and north, Ukraine is already taken care of and the Russians will focus and defend the north and north west.
> Its funny how westerners were bad-mouthing Turkey until very recently, u think turks will forget? They will forget the attempted coup and economic war? Along with US support to kurds?


Turkey CANNOT not fight for NATO, this is "Absurd" and "Naive" to think otherwise, if Turkey are not capable or willing to perform their duty as NATO member, they would have either withdraw or been kick out of NATO. It's like saying US will not fight for NATO because Latvia is too small..........They can't do that...

And Turkey *ALREADY* Blocking black seas now, they had invoked the Montreux Convention on the 28th February.



coffee_cup said:


> So there is no official IMF report and you made it up?


First of all I didn't say that was an official IMF report, I said that was an IMF figure, I read an article that quote that.

As for whether or not I made it up, well, unless I also made up those Wikipedia Entry, otherwise someone somewhere have appraise the exact same data.

So it depend on what you are trying to say

"Were there IMF report?" or "Were the figure accurate?"

If it is the first one, I read that a few days ago, and I can no longer find the article that quote the IMF of that value. I read thousand of article every week, I cannot backtrack every article I have read on any given day.

If it is the second one, then check the Wikipedia and the Source.

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## TNT

jhungary said:


> Turkey CANNOT not fight for NATO, this is "Absurd" and "Naive" to think otherwise, if Turkey are not capable or willing to perform their duty as NATO member, they would have either withdraw or been kick out of NATO. It's like saying US will not fight for NATO because Latvia is too small..........They can't do that...
> 
> And Turkey *ALREADY* Blocking black seas now, they had invoked the Montreux Convention on the 28th February.



Turkey will retain NATO membership for as long as possible and if it comes to a critical juncture, the Turks may well leave NATO. Turkey is already on the way to self reliance in defence and enhancing relations with China. They may even obtain nukes from Pakistan. I know this seems absurd to u because its not in ur manual, this is real politik.

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## AZMwi

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501517822043865089
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501519621492510720


posting the same picture twice won't make it 2 tank loses of the russians. i know u guys r desperate but please don't post same thing twice.

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## jhungary

TNT said:


> Turkey will retain NATO membership for as long as possible and if it comes to a critical juncture, the Turks may well leave NATO. Turkey is already on the way to self reliance in defence and enhancing relations with China. They may even obtain nukes from Pakistan. I know this seems absurd to u because its not in ur manual, this is real politik.


Well, this is absurd because what you say is absurd.

First of all, Turkey have beef (Land dispute) with Greece, and if Turkey withdraw form NATO, Greece will most likely be attacking Turkey (or vice versa) and which mean unless you are telling me Turkey can withstand a full NATO assault, that's suicide. 

This is the exact reason why Turkey joined NATO in the first place.......

Second of all, you real politik is not exactly how you say. This is not a "take all you want" situation here. And do you really think if you can think of that, the NATO Member would not and wouldn't kick Turkey Out already??


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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> First of all I didn't say that was an official IMF report, I said that was an IMF figure, I read an article that quote that.



So you build all your argument on the basis of "some article that you read" and make it sound like it was based on some official IMF source. WOW!

Everyone reads shyt load of different articles everyday. I read today that US $ was about to collapse and poverty in the US was about to jump to 1000 folds. 

But I would not start argument on the basis of that article because I know everyone has emotional opinions which are not always based on Facts.

This is called propaganda. And we know you are deployed for that.

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## dBSPL

thetutle said:


> NATO gave us a "no fly zone" at the start of the bosnain war. Your anti tank missiles saved thousands of lives, but No fly zone was absolutely essential. What ukranians would give for a no fly zone.
> 
> Of course we wil join EU and NATO. EU is about trade and our trading partners are Germany, Italy, Austria, Croatia and Serbia. We aren't going to join ASEAN. we can't.
> 
> And NATO, well, seeing what is happening, if you were a Bosnian wouldn't you want to Jon NATO now? or you want to be like Ukraine?


Unfortunately, we cannot evaluate it much what is happening Bosnia right now... Especially in the last year, things to reviving by both the serbian parliamenters and some influence agents have become a source of concern for the people of Bosnia. I regret to see that several parts of the Balkans are boiling 'at the same time'.

Let's put aside Bosnia's war of freedom and the genocide it suffered, even today most of dont want to realize the conditions surrounding the Bosnian people.

My observation is that unfortunately most of the posters here evaluate the facts only from their own perspective (with their national interests) and accept this as a moral basis. Without leaving comfort zones of mind, a sufficiently inclusive empathy cannot be developed about how the stories are written differently in many other corners of the world, and which peoples are actually tested suffered with what.

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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> So you build all your argument on the basis of "some article that you read" and make it sound like it was based on some official IMF source. WOW!
> 
> Everyone reads shyt load of different articles everyday. I read today that US $ was about to collapse and poverty in the US was about to jump to 1000 folds.
> 
> But I would not start argument on the basis of that article because I know everyone has emotional opinions which are not always based on Facts.
> 
> This is called propaganda. And we know you are deployed for that.


Again, you are asking a different question here.

*So are you disputing that average Russian earn 2/3 of average Indian? in term of Average Gross Salary? Or IMF never said that? *

Would you be feeling better if I go back and change the word from "IMF" to "Wikipedia" or to whatever the quote Wikipedia come from? Because everything else is exactly the same.

I like how you argue, you use Wikipedia when you demonstrate your point and when I use it, you said "oh this is propaganda"

About the figure, there are numerous employment agency, economic firm support the figure, all you need to do is to go google it yourselves, I mean its easy to discount anything as propaganda if that did not support your narrative, but when multiple source claim the same thing, you need to think if yours are the propaganda.


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## M.AsfandYar

jhungary said:


> Can't find the IMF report I read some days ago.
> 
> But here are what Wikipedia show under "Average Gross Salary"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Economy of Russia - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Economy of India - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which show similar figure, go dispute their source if you want.


OMG @coffee_cup


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## coffee_cup

M.AsfandYar said:


> OMG @coffee_cup





And the funny thing is that even in that Wikipedia the average Russian seem to earn about 4 times more than an average Indian.

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## Zibago

8888888888888 said:


> Russian still won in Syria and they are not losing against Ukraine.


Did they? I mean a lot of territory and 500000 dead later the country still is divided


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## TNT

jhungary said:


> Well, this is absurd because what you say is absurd.
> 
> First of all, Turkey have beef (Land dispute) with Greece, and if Turkey withdraw form NATO, Greece will most likely be attacking Turkey (or vice versa) and which mean unless you are telling me Turkey can withstand a full NATO assault, that's suicide.
> 
> This is the exact reason why Turkey joined NATO in the first place.......
> 
> Second of all, you real politik is not exactly how you say. This is not a "take all you want" situation here. And do you really think if you can think of that, the NATO Member would not and wouldn't kick Turkey Out already??



Wasnt there talk of kicking Turkey out of NATO recently in western countries? Greece doesn't have the courage to attack Turkey, they will be destroyed. NATO needs Turkey against Russia and Turkey have used that to its advantage. The Turkish and Russian weapons trade will only increase. You people waged an economic war on Turkey very recently, u deny them their rightful share of the Mediterranean sea, u help kurds, u help greece and u think Turkey will save u from Russia at its own expense? 😂That is not absurd at all, that is downright stupid.

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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> And the funny thing is that even in that Wikipedia the average Russian seem to earn about 4 times more than an average Indian.


Funny things is, you MUST BE blinded

Please read the circled portion in USD?










Either I am Blinded and that 361 USD russian earn is 4 times the 440 USD Indian earned monthly, or you read some other number which I don't know.


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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> Again, you are asking a different question here.
> 
> *So are you disputing that average Russian earn 2/3 of average Indian? in term of Average Gross Salary? Or IMF never said that? *
> 
> Would you be feeling better if I go back and change the word from "IMF" to "Wikipedia" or to whatever the quote Wikipedia come from? Because everything else is exactly the same.
> 
> I like how you argue, you use Wikipedia when you demonstrate your point and when I use it, you said "oh this is propaganda"
> 
> About the figure, there are numerous employment agency, economic firm support the figure, all you need to do is to go google it yourselves, I mean its easy to discount anything as propaganda if that did not support your narrative, but when multiple source claim the same thing, you need to think if yours are the propaganda.



First of all: You build your argument on "according to IMF ..." and you could not produce an official source for that when challenged. Hence completely nullifying whatever the contents come after that.

Second: Even in the same Wikipedia pages that you have provided it states that *Russian* GDP per capita is "*$11,654*" whereas* Indian* one is *$2,313*

Now I dont know which school you have learned mathematics, but the normal mathematics shows that an *average Indians has aprox. five times less than a Russian.*

Next time try harder.

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## dBSPL

jhungary said:


> Well, this is absurd because what you say is absurd.
> 
> First of all, Turkey have beef (Land dispute) with Greece, and if Turkey withdraw form NATO, Greece will most likely be attacking Turkey (or vice versa) and which mean unless you are telling me Turkey can withstand a full NATO assault, that's suicide.
> 
> This is the exact reason why Turkey joined NATO in the first place.......
> 
> Second of all, you real politik is not exactly how you say. This is not a "take all you want" situation here. And do you really think if you can think of that, the NATO Member would not and wouldn't kick Turkey Out already??


The only reason for Turkey to join NATO is Stalin's Russia's sovereignty debate over the straits and territorial claims in eastern Anatolia. (NATO has provided an assurance against Russian imperialisim, but nothing is free.)

Until 50s, relations between Turkey and Greece were mostly at a very good level. When Greece announced that it had increased its territorial waters to 6 miles in violation of the Lausanne agreement, Turkey did not even object to this as a sign of goodwill. The deterioration of relations between Turkey and Greece began with the explosion of social events in Cyprus and the EOKA movement. It reached its peak with the military coup in Greece. But the thing is, NATO gladio has penetrated both states and aimed to produce two socially conflicted two states.

Why doesn't Turkey leave NATO today? There are so many reasons. And most of these reasons are not about non-NATO threats... The final nail in the alliance's coffin was hit by US in 2016.

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## TNT

coffee_cup said:


> And the funny thing is that even in that Wikipedia the average Russian seem to earn about 4 times more than an average Indian.



Just like western media, their puppets lie openly and spread propaganda. Funny thing is no mod will warn this idiot for constant trolling. Shows even Pakistan have a huge western propaganda inflicted zombie problem. In any conflict with the west in future, these ppl will be western spies and cheerleaders.

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## jhungary

TNT said:


> Wasnt there talk of kicking Turkey out of NATO recently in western countries? Greece doesn't have the courage to attack Turkey, they will be destroyed. NATO needs Turkey against Russia and Turkey have used that to its advantage. The Turkish and Russian weapons trade will only increase. You people waged an economic war on Turkey very recently, u deny them their rightful share of the Mediterranean sea, u help kurds, u help greece and u think Turkey will save u from Russia at its own expense? 😂That is not absurd at all, that is downright stupid.



Well, if you want to keep talking about conjecture, then I will stop talking to you, because all these are simply "What you want to believe"

I have no intention on listening to what you believe is a just world......



coffee_cup said:


> First of all: You build your argument on "according to IMF ..." and you could not produce an official source for that when challenged. Hence completely nullifying whatever the contents come after that.
> 
> Second: Even in the same Wikipedia pages that you have provided it states that *Russian* GDP per capita is "*$11,654*" whereas* Indian* one is *$2,313*
> 
> Now I dont know which school you have learned mathematics, but the normal mathematics shows that an *average Indians earns aprox. five times less than a Russian.*
> 
> Next time try harder.



Wow, you don't even know what is Average Earning and you use GDP (PPP)?? And you talk to me about it? LOL

GDP per capita is NOT average earning. That is NOT across the globe. It has not been the case ALL OVER THE WORLD...

GDP is an mean value, while Average Earning is an Average value. Do you even know the statistical difference between Mean and Average? I mean, seriously? 









Difference Between Average and Mean | Average vs. Mean


Learn the major differences between average and mean. Visit BYJU'S to get the definition, formulas and the differences between them with examples.




byjus.com





Dude, do you even know Economy before you talk Economy to me?


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## Patriot forever

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501494185467252737

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> Wow, you don't even know what is Average Earning and you use GDP (PPP)?? And you talk to me about it? LOL
> 
> GDP per capita is NOT average earning. That is NOT across the globe. It has not been the case ALL OVER THE WORLD...
> 
> GDP is an mean value, while Average Earning is an Average value. Do you even know the statistical difference between Mean and Average?
> 
> Dude, do you even know Economy before you talk Economy to me?



Provide the official IMF source you built your argument opon.

You cant? Then that discussion is over. 

Initiate another post with proper sources so that people can reply you accordingly.

Most of your rants are based on some phony OpEds without anything solid to back them up. Just like your deployments across the globe which no one can verify, :- D

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## thetutle

TNT said:


> You guys are putting all ur eggs in one basket now. They provided a no fly zone because they knew it wont stop the serbs from butchering u. You are free to choose what u want but be prepared to be betrayed by the west and this time, no help may arrive from east.


True, this is very true. but its unavoidable. We had to turn against Iran. this is very sad. we had to go into Iraq and Afghanistan, had to recognise one country in the Middle East and other bitter pills. 

In the future, if we need help we will get it from someone that thinks there should be a muslim country in Europe. Turkey will be there, maybe Pakistan will be there again. it all depends on who is in power at the time. 

we have had a kingdom in Europe even 800 years ago, we are not new to this, we aren't there by accident, and were still here unlike many others. Not even jews could carve out a country in Europe. Jews have been a nation in Europe longer than we have even been a nation or ethnic group. and they are still fighting over a little patch of desert in an inhospitable place in the Middle East.

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## TNT

jhungary said:


> Well, if you want to keep talking about conjecture, then I will stop talking to you, because all these are simply "What you want to believe"
> 
> I have no intention on listening to what you believe is a just world......



Yeah instead believe fox news or CNN lolz. Or maybe see whats written in ur manual for a just world lead by murica.


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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> Provide the official IMF source you built your argument opon.
> 
> You cant? Then that discussion is over.
> 
> Initiate another post with proper sources so that people can reply you accordingly.
> 
> Most of your rants are based on some phony OpEds without anything solid to back them up. Just like your deployments across the globe which no one can verify, :- D


Okay. Then if that is the case, I go back and change to Wikipedia.

Now, challenge that point please.

If not, then discussion is *REALLY OVER
*
Thank You

P.S. I can't believe someone is so freaking booge and do not even know the different between average salary and use GDP (PPP), LOL, dude, you are the first booge.



TNT said:


> Yeah instead believe fox news or CNN lolz. Or maybe see whats written in ur manual for a just world lead by murica.


Well, this is not about Media, this is about you think abandoning the value of International Law is a okay act and the President of Turkey will do that just because you think that's suitable to your own narrative, and you arent even Turkish to begin with.

This is about your conjecture, not about media representation or "Manual". 

I mean, in your mind it's okay for Turkey not to follow NATO order even when they are part of NATO and taken numerous benefit within NATO, if that's okay for you, who am I to argue then? LOL


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## sandip mishra

Just a training exercise & nothing more

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

jhungary said:


> Okay. Then if that is the case, I go back and change to Wikipedia.
> 
> Now, challenge that point please.
> 
> If not, then discussion is *REALLY OVER*
> 
> Thank You
> 
> P.S. I can't believe someone is so freaking booge and do not even know the different between average salary and use GDP (PPP), LOL, dude, you are the first booge.
> 
> 
> Well, this is not about Media, this is about you think abandoning the value of International Law is a okay act and the President of Turkey will do that just because you think that's suitable to your own narrative, and you arent even Turkish to begin with.
> 
> This is about your conjecture, not about media representation or "Manual".
> 
> I mean, in your mind it's okay for Turkey not to follow NATO order even when they are part of NATO and taken numerous benefit within NATO, if that's okay for you, who am I to argue then? LOL



It is a futile debate really because Turkey is NATO and bond by treaty hence it makes no sense to argu otherwise unless they disband but other then that it is futile debate


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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> Provide the official IMF source you built your argument opon.
> 
> You cant? Then that discussion is over.
> 
> Initiate another post with proper sources so that people can reply you accordingly.
> 
> Most of your rants are based on some phony OpEds without anything solid to back them up. Just like your deployments across the globe which no one can verify, :- D


I don't see you go challege my "OPEDS" piece. lol.

If you are all that, why not challenge my knowledge of all my article in a public setting? I dare you

Dude, have you ever wonder why people like Vapnope would write something like this?


Vapnope said:


> No. His own work. He posted a good thread before he left PDF but i cant seem to find that thread now.
> 
> Found it,
> Thread 'Jhungary on Warfare - Part 1 Principles of War' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/jhungary-on-warfare-part-1-principles-of-war.432599/



And if you really think all I do is to look for article and pretend to be a very knowledge person,* I DARE YOU TO CHALLENGE ANY OF MY ARTICLE.*

Otherwise all you do is talk, and talk is cheap.



Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> It is a futile debate really because Turkey is NATO and bond by treaty hence it makes no sense to argu otherwise unless they disband but other then that it is futile debate


Yes, it is, that's why I don't want to debate someone's conjecture.


----------



## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> Okay. Then if that is the case, I go back and change to Wikipedia.
> 
> Now, challenge that point please.
> 
> If not, then discussion is *REALLY OVER*
> 
> Thank You
> 
> P.S. I can't believe someone is so freaking booge and do not even know the different between average salary and use GDP (PPP), LOL, dude, you are the first booge.



Dude now this is another discussion which I gladly leave to people with economic background. May be some knowledgeable person can answer if "average salary" is even an economic indicator for countries as a big picture?

But your original claim citing imaginary_ IMF sources_ was *FAKE* propaganda.

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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> Dude now this is another discussion which I gladly leave to people with economic background. May be some knowledgeable person can answer if "average salary" is even an economic indicator for countries as a big picture?
> 
> But your original claim citing imaginary_ IMF sources_ was *FAKE* propaganda.


First of all, set aside that, you still have the outstanding question about how "average" and "mean" work. Which mean you really have no idea how "statistic analysis" work. Because everyone knows GDP is a imperial mean value (the hypothetical value got split in the middle simply by dividing GDP to the number of population) while Average Salary is a "Sample Value, which achieve by summation of all available data and took the median value, hence 50/50) 

You obviously did not know that.

Okay, even if I concede the IMF thing is make up (I am not, but let's just say for this instant, I conceded that) does that mean anything when other value point to the same trend I described? Or are you saying I make up that Wikipedia post and all the salary reporting post on the internet?

Now, what that mean even if this is not from IMF? No fricking different at all. But if you really want to go around with the IMF thing, then okay, I will concede the IMF thing is make up, now argue the value with me please. 

If you cannot do that, then you lost all creditability. Not me.


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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Funny things is, you MUST BE blinded
> 
> Please read the circled portion in USD?
> 
> View attachment 822236
> View attachment 822237
> 
> 
> Either I am Blinded and that 361 USD russian earn is 4 times the 440 USD Indian earned monthly, or you read some other number which I don't know.


I am sure you are not blind, but some of these numbers and statistics are a bit strange and I can't explain it. 

But I've been to Russia and many different cities. Even in Siberia and Russia is really developed, and the people live quite well. Particularly "normal" white ethnic Russians. All the dirty jobs and construction jobs and stuff like that are done by what clearly to me dont look like ethnic Russians. But even those people doing the "crappy" jobs seem to live pretty good. And walking down the street in even poor cities in Russia you would think you are in Scandinavia or at worst, parts of Eastern Europe. 

compare that with India where you have people live in literally their own poo, where dead animals and human bodies float down the river and you watch this while eating your lunch. Where people dont have water to drink in their own homes.Comparing India to Russia is just perverse despite what any statistics say. I think if the average Indian woke up and found themselves in Russia they would think they died and went to heaven.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> I am sure you are not blind, but some of these numbers and statistics are a bit strange and I can't explain it.
> 
> But I've been to Russia and many different cities. Even in Siberia and Russia is really developed, and the people live quite well. Particularly "normal" white ethnic Russians. All the dirty jobs and construction jobs and stuff like that are done by what clearly to me dont look like ethnic Russians. But even those people doing the "crappy" jobs seem to live pretty good. And walking down the street in even poor cities in Russia you would think you are in Scandinavia or at worst, parts of Eastern Europe.
> 
> compare that with India where you have people live in literally their own poo, where dead animals and human bodies float down the river and you watch this while eating your lunch. Where people dont have water to drink in their own homes.Comparing India to Russia is just perverse despite what any statistics say. I think if the average Indian woke up and found themselves in Russia they would think they died and went to heaven.



I don't know, but that is the general data I got from numerous source, the data are pretty consistent.

As for possible explanation, statistically, that can be achieve if a country have higher than normal wealth gap.

Bear in mind Average Gross Salary is a set of data which you put them together and divided by the data entries. And GDP is the product of entirety of the country, if a lot of wealth is focused on just a few people, then the sample side would have been on a lowered scale. Because while those people with a lot of money did not appear normal on the standard deviation. Which make the average salary lower. 

Which mean it could have been just a few rich Russian, as long as they are uber rich and propped up the entire Russian economy, they will still have a large GDP (due to those rich Russian) with large GDP PPP (because they are based on GDP) but lower average salary because the majority of Russia do not earn that much. 

While Indian GDP is more evenly distributed, even if they are low, they can still be better off than the average Russian.

It's like America, Anyone wanted to go to America and promise big buck, an average Chinese landed in America would think that is heaven, but it won't be if you have a PhD and drive Taxi (or uber), which seems like a lot of immigrant is doing now


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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> First of all, set aside that, you still have the outstanding question about how "average" and "mean" work. Which mean you really have no idea how "statistic analysis" work. Because everyone knows GDP is a imperial mean value (the hypothetical value got split in the middle simply by dividing GDP to the number of population) while Average Salary is a "Sample Value, which achieve by summation of all available data and took the median value, hence 50/50)
> 
> You obviously did not know that.
> 
> Okay, even if I concede the IMF thing is make up (I am not, but let's just say for this instant, I conceded that) does that mean anything when other value point to the same trend I described? Or are you saying I make up that Wikipedia post and all the salary reporting post on the internet?
> 
> Now, what that mean even if this is not from IMF? No fricking different at all. But if you really want to go around with the IMF thing, then okay, I will concede the IMF thing is make up, now argue the value with me please.
> 
> If you cannot do that, then you lost all creditability. Not me.



Dear economists reading this thread.

Can you please give your input? Is "Average Salary" an economic indicator which is taken into consideration by Financial institutions of the world (because it is mentioned in Wikipedia cited by the dude)?

Or is it Median Income which is considered relevant?

I read this on the following source and I dont see "Average Salary" mentioned anywhere here.

( https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-income-by-country )

"World Bank tracks a number of income- and poverty-related metrics, *including GDP per capita, GNI per capita, GINI coefficient per country, and median income."*


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## jhungary

Vapnope said:


> No. His own work. He posted a good thread before he left PDF but i cant seem to find that thread now.
> 
> Found it,
> Thread 'Jhungary on Warfare - Part 1 Principles of War' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/jhungary-on-warfare-part-1-principles-of-war.432599/



Thanks, some day I will probably finished the 7 parts series, but people like the one you replying to is the reason this never got finished....



coffee_cup said:


> Dear economists reading this thread.
> 
> Can you please give your input? Is "Average Salary" an economic indicator which is taken into consideration by Financial institutions of the world (because it is mentioned in Wikipedia cited by the dude)?
> 
> Or is it Median Income which is considered relevant?
> 
> I read this on the following source and I dont see "Average Salary" mentioned anywhere here.
> 
> ( https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-income-by-country )
> 
> "World Bank tracks a number of income- and poverty-related metrics, *including GDP per capita, GNI per capita, GINI coefficient per country, and median income."*


Now that's ANOTHER question together.

Where do I say Average Gross (Have to be Gross by the way) Salary" is an economic indicator?

By the way, *MEDIAN income is Average Gross Salary.*





__





Median income - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Dude, just use your brain and think for a second, how do you get the "Median Salary"? You add all the data together and divided by the sample size to see median line of that salary. Now, how do you get "Average Gross Salary"? You added all the data together and divided by the sample size..........

You really should have talked more, because you are exposing yourself as incompetent before I even need to lift a finger.....

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## coffee_cup

thetutle said:


> I am sure you are not blind, but some of these numbers and statistics are a bit strange and I can't explain it.
> 
> But I've been to Russia and many different cities. Even in Siberia and Russia is really developed, and the people live quite well. Particularly "normal" white ethnic Russians. All the dirty jobs and construction jobs and stuff like that are done by what clearly to me dont look like ethnic Russians. But even those people doing the "crappy" jobs seem to live pretty good. And walking down the street in even poor cities in Russia you would think you are in Scandinavia or at worst, parts of Eastern Europe.
> 
> compare that with India where you have people live in literally their own poo, where dead animals and human bodies float down the river and you watch this while eating your lunch. Where people dont have water to drink in their own homes.Comparing India to Russia is just perverse despite what any statistics say. I think if the average Indian woke up and found themselves in Russia they would think they died and went to heaven.



You are right, Russia is a very developed country in every aspect. Russia ranks 52 in HDI whereas India is far below... 130 something.

And this dude thinks because some people earn more in average in India (completely ignoring other costs of living related things), Russia would collapse.

Holding on straws, propaganda at its worst!!


(PS: My position is this... I do believe Russia will take a huge economic hit, but so will other countries of the world as well. And all of them will recover slowly)

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak




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## Type59

RescueRanger said:


> Slovakia:
> 
> Another war monument to Red Army soldiers who liberated the city of Bratislava from Nazi occupation was vandalised yesterday
> 
> View attachment 822219
> 
> 
> Say what you will - curse the Russians - make memes but for gods sake leave war monuments alone.


Destroying statues and books, when it happened with Taliban and Isis, the world rightly condemned it. Eastern Europeans consistently destroy their "communist" history and west applauds.

Ukrainians are actually burning Soviet era books, regardless of subject and content.


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Type59 said:


> Ukrainians are actually burning Soviet era books, regardless of subject and content.



Soviet era books are not religious books. It was an empire and has no cultural significiance beyond that


----------



## jhungary

@coffee_cup I have sent you like 10 challenge invitation on my article, I think you said I just OPED them.

Com'on, I am still waiting on ya.

Come on, talk is cheap, chop chop, I ain't got all day.


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## Orange

VIDEO ⚡️ Azov ATGM crews on the roofs of high-rise buildings in Mariupol ⚡️


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501554931169435651

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## Type59

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Soviet era books are not religious books. It was an empire and has no cultural significiance beyond



Wow. Don't know how to respond to that. I could write many points to support my statement. But won't waste my time any further.

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> Now that's ANOTHER question together.
> 
> Where do I say Average Gross (Have to be Gross by the way) Salary" is an economic indicator?



You built all your propaganda on the premises that Russian economy will collapse.

And to support that, you cited some non-existing IMF source which was debunked.

So now you are saying that you didnt mean to mention what you mentioned as "economic indicator".

First come up with some clear statement what you want to say. You are all over the place right now.

Let me make it easier for you:

*Based on what concrete globally acceptable economic indicators you see an average Russian living worst than an average Indian?*

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## TNT

jhungary said:


> Okay. Then if that is the case, I go back and change to Wikipedia.
> 
> Now, challenge that point please.
> 
> If not, then discussion is *REALLY OVER*
> 
> Thank You
> 
> P.S. I can't believe someone is so freaking booge and do not even know the different between average salary and use GDP (PPP), LOL, dude, you are the first booge.
> 
> 
> Well, this is not about Media, this is about you think abandoning the value of International Law is a okay act and the President of Turkey will do that just because you think that's suitable to your own narrative, and you arent even Turkish to begin with.
> 
> This is about your conjecture, not about media representation or "Manual".
> 
> I mean, in your mind it's okay for Turkey not to follow NATO order even when they are part of NATO and taken numerous benefit within NATO, if that's okay for you, who am I to argue then? LOL



Its funny when a US person talks about law, i mean really?? Have the US ever followed any law? Its not what i want as i am not even Turkish, its what i forsee and is evident. You just completely ignored what US did and doing to Turkey, u must be dumb to think Turkey or any country will forget it. 
I told u its real politik and Turkey will do whats best for its interest. Obviously a propaganda mouthpiece deployed to PDF for this one thread wont have enough intellect to understand. Enjoy ur stay.

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> I don't know, but that is the general data I got from numerous source, the data are pretty consistent.
> 
> As for possible explanation, statistically, that can be achieve if a country have higher than normal wealth gap.
> 
> Bear in mind Average Gross Salary is a set of data which you put them together and divided by the data entries. And GDP is the product of entirety of the country, if a lot of wealth is focused on just a few people, then the sample side would have been on a lowered scale. Because while those people with a lot of money did not appear normal on the standard deviation. Which make the average salary lower.
> 
> Which mean it could have been just a few rich Russian, as long as they are uber rich and propped up the entire Russian economy, they will still have a large GDP (due to those rich Russian) with large GDP PPP (because they are based on GDP) but lower average salary because the majority of Russia do not earn that much.
> 
> While Indian GDP is more evenly distributed, even if they are low, they can still be better off than the average Russian.
> 
> It's like America, Anyone wanted to go to America and promise big buck, an average Chinese landed in America would think that is heaven, but it won't be if you have a PhD and drive Taxi (or uber), which seems like a lot of immigrant is doing now



I have thought about this still for a long time. And it makes little sense. But explanation is definitely NOT that India had more even distribution of wealth. 

I have experiences in Bosnia where the average (not median, but average) salary is 500 euro per month. but, salary does not include what we in Australia call "fringe benefits" like "transport" and "lunch" and "bonuses". So almost every Bosnian gets transport and lunch cash in their hand every day in addition to their salary. Why is this done? because the government has to pay the old age pension on the basis of the average salary and the smaller the average salary is the better for the government because they then pay lower salaries. This might happen in Russia also. So the average salary lets you know very little, and median salary also tells you very little. 

Also Bosnia had at one stage unemployment level of 60%. can you imagine unemployment of 60%. And you walk around people are well dressed well fed, nice cars, restaurants full. try to open factory and find a worker, noone will come, you can't get workers. why not? you would think there are lines of unemployed lines up waiting for work? no.

It because in order to get free healthcare, your employer has to pay for your heath insurance. OR if you dont want to work or are a house wife or living with your parents and just bumming around the only way to get health insurance is to register and unemployed. But these people will never work and they have no interest in working. Now in Australia, these people are not even counted as a part fo the workforce. And in Australia everyone working for more than 1 hour per week, paid or unpaid is employed. lol 

So a lot of these statistics have a hidden story. Let me assure you, If Russia was nuclear bombed, they would have better lifestyle in their bunkers than India has now.

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## Kraetoz

Why are there so many off topic posts in this thread?

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## jhungary

TNT said:


> Its funny when a US person talks about law, i mean really?? Have the US ever followed any law? Its not what i want as i am not even Turkish, its what i forsee and is evident. You just completely ignored what US did and doing to Turkey, u must be dumb to think Turkey or any country will forget it.
> I told u its real politik and Turkey will do whats best for its interest. Obviously a propaganda mouthpiece deployed to PDF for this one thread wont have enough intellect to understand. Enjoy ur stay.


Again, just because that is what you think does not equate to being "Real politik".....

As I said the third time now, I have no interest nor determination to debate with you what is your version of just world, because my view is the world is not just. 

What if US is friendly to the Muslim and not Israeli? This, all this, will not change, only that instead of Muslim complaining, it would be a Jew. 

For me? I don't really care about either side. You can think whatever you want, I mean even if your country is not free, you mind always is.


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> how do you get the "Median Salary"? You add all the data together and divided by the sample size to see median line of that salary. Now, how do you get "Average Gross Salary"? You added all the data together and divided by the sample size..........



To get "median" salary, you take every salary of every person, and you write them down from smallest all the way to the highest. Then you take away the lowest and the highest one by one. until you get to the middle. That middle one left behind is the median.

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## Paul2

TNT said:


> Turkey will retain NATO membership for as long as possible and if it comes to a critical juncture, the Turks may well leave NATO. Turkey is already on the way to self reliance in defence and enhancing relations with China. They may even obtain nukes from Pakistan. I know this seems absurd to u because its not in ur manual, this is real politik.



Turkey's elections are coming, and results are now very predictable


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## Ich

jhungary said:


> Because everyone knows GDP is a imperial mean value (the hypothetical value got split in the middle simply by dividing GDP to the number of population) while Average Salary is a "Sample Value, which achieve by summation of all available data and took the median value, hence 50/50)



In Germany the Average Salary is the added value of the income of the employed ONLY, divided through the number of the employed. Employed are dependent workers who work for someone. But it is nonsense to convert it into Dollar and then compare the result. To compare different countries you have to look what the employed have topay in their currencys for a living. In Germany the average income is about 55000 Dollar, but the energy costs (heating, gas, gasoline ect.) and rental costs take around the half of it away. So how much have a russian have to pay for energy and rental costs? For sure not the half of their average income. You see that this "average income converted in Dollar" comparison is no thing of value. Its useless.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501543775700762633

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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> You built all your propaganda on the premises that Russian economy will collapse.
> 
> And to support that, you cited some non-existing IMF source which was debunked.
> 
> So now you are saying that you didnt mean to mention what you mentioned as "economic indicator".
> 
> First come up with some clear statement what you want to say. You are all over the place right now.
> 
> Let me make it easier for you:
> 
> *Based on what concrete globally acceptable economic indicators you see an average Russian living worst than an average Indian?*


Again, are you disputing the *FIGURE*? Or are you disputing the *SOURCE*?

As I said, let's say I concede that the IMF figure is made up, how DO YOU dispute the number as appear in Wikipedia? Simply saying "Oh it's my propaganda...." But then I did not come up with that figure? Or are you accusing me who alter the public information of Wikipedia? 

And again, where DO I SAY average salary is an economic indicator? In fact what is an "Economic Indicator"? Just because you make this term up does not mean it make sense. I can tell you if there are really "Economic Indicator" it would not have been a one dimension value. So as I said, what is your point?

And finally, How do you go from Average Russian earning Less than Average Indian to * economic indicators you see an average Russian living worst than an average Indian*? Just because someone earn less means they are living worse off than another? Dude, where did I say that? You really do put a lot of word in my mouth and then claim I am wrong. 

Dude, I am pretty sure a man earn $1000 USD in Cambodia would have better living standard than a man earning $1000 USD in US. I never even said anything about living standard.......


----------



## TNT

jhungary said:


> Thanks, some day I will probably finished the 7 parts series, but people like the one you replying to is the reason this never got finished....
> 
> 
> Now that's ANOTHER question together.
> 
> Where do I say Average Gross (Have to be Gross by the way) Salary" is an economic indicator?
> 
> By the way, *MEDIAN income is Average Gross Salary.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Median income - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, just use your brain and think for a second, how do you get the "Median Salary"? You add all the data together and divided by the sample size to see median line of that salary. Now, how do you get "Average Gross Salary"? You added all the data together and divided by the sample size..........
> 
> You really should have talked more, because you are exposing yourself as incompetent before I even need to lift a finger.....



Sorry to jump in but u describe both median and average as the same lolz. What u described is average and median is the middle value. By the way, why u mention IMF? Lolz 
But again if person thinks Russia will become north korea, then there isnt much left to argue. Would love to see ur embarrassment ina year's time but ull be gone by then and wont have the courage to show ur face here.

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## jhungary

Ich said:


> In Germany the Average Salary is the added value of the income of the employed ONLY, divided through the number of the employed. Employed are dependent workers who work for someone. But it is nonsense to convert it into Dollar and then compare the result. To compare different countries you have to look what the employed have topay in their currencys for a living. In Germany the average income is about 55000 Dollar, but the energy costs (heating, gas, gasoline ect.) and rental costs take around the half of it away. So how much have a russian have to pay for energy and rental costs? For sure not the half of their average income. You see that this "average income converted in Dollar" comparison is no thing of value. Its useless.


That's why the word "Gross" is important, because factor such as tax rate, expenditure would affect the indication. 

How much you earn is how much you earn, how much you use is how much you use.



TNT said:


> Sorry to jump in but u describe both median and average as the same lolz. What u described is average and median is the middle value. By the way, why u mention IMF? Lolz
> But again if person thinks Russia will become north korea, then there isnt much left to argue. Would love to see ur embarrassment ina year's time but ull be gone by then and wont have the courage to show ur face here


How else do you think the Median Income and Average Gross Salary is calculated?


----------



## Wood

Dalit said:


> Wrong. The Russians knew it all along. Anyone who starts a war knows the consequences.


Many people here have made the argument that Russia knew all along what western sanctions are capable of. But I see evidence to the contrary.

Putin accumulated $600 Billion in reserves as a war chest to weather the sanctions that west may impose. But he held most of it outside the country and is now not able to access them. If Putin is so clever and has everything in control, why would his central bank chief say that he cannot do anything about this?!

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## thetutle

Ich said:


> To compare different countries you have to look what the employed have topay in their currencys for a living. In Germany the average income is about 55000 Dollar, but the energy costs (heating, gas, gasoline ect.) and rental costs take around the half of it away. So how much have a russian have to pay for energy and rental costs? For sure not the half of their average income. You see that this "average income converted in Dollar" comparison is no thing of value. Its useless.


The Russians pay about 45 cents USD per litre in petrol "unleaded 95".

In Australia I pay $1.50 USD per litre. 

So we will see how things go in Russia. 

My heating bill in Australia is about $0 so thats good at least.

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## TNT

jhungary said:


> Again, just because that is what you think does not equate to being "Real politik".....
> 
> As I said the third time now, I have no interest nor determination to debate with you what is your version of just world, because my view is the world is not just.
> 
> What if US is friendly to the Muslim and not Israeli? This, all this, will not change, only that instead of Muslim complaining, it would be a Jew.
> 
> For me? I don't really care about either side. You can think whatever you want, I mean even if your country is not free, you mind always is.



Well then don't reply. By the way some countries claim to be free but the mind of their citizens are not lolz. Also its not abt muslims or jews, it only shows ur internal bias.


----------



## Paul2

coffee_cup said:


> You are right, Russia is a very developed country in every aspect. Russia ranks 52 in HDI whereas India is far below... 130 something.
> 
> And this dude thinks because some people earn more in average in India (completely ignoring other costs of living related things), Russia would collapse.
> 
> Holding on straws, propaganda at its worst!!
> 
> 
> (PS: My position is this... I do believe Russia will take a huge economic hit, but so will other countries of the world as well. And all of them will recover slowly)



Well, numbers don't lie. I've been to Bangladesh just few months ago to fix few things at a client's factory.

BD passed India on per-capita GDP, AND their urban professional salaries are bigger than in most of India, sans Mumbai, and Delhi. Yet, some parts of Dhaka still do look like a warzone, there are plenty of older workers doing much worse on average, and overall feeling consistent with a country which just got out of abyss only around 10 years ago.

Russia is a polar opposite - 50% higher education rate, yet very poor

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## jhungary

TNT said:


> Well then don't reply. By the way some countries claim to be free but the mind of their citizens are not lolz. Also its not abt muslims or jews, it only shows ur internal bias.


Well, the failure to see the example I use is probably showing your own internal bias.


----------



## Foinikas

Reports are now saying that it was the Ukrainians who accidentally shot down the Romanian Mig-21 and the rescue helicopter







Ukrainian air defense system S-300 mistakenly shot down a Romanian fighter


Ukraine mistakenly shot down a Romanian MiG-21 fighter




avia-pro.net






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501223758094389248


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## coffee_cup

German Chancellor in joint press conference with Canadian PM has categorically stated that no polish fighter jets will be provided to Ukraine in order to avoid the conflict spreading to NATO.


Wise decision. War must be stopped with dialog and not adding fuel to the fire.

Sorry all those fanboys who were expecting to see Polish Mig29 flying over Kiev today.

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## Orange

Finally, truth been spoken 🙌 👏 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501565371580657665

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## Bleek

Foinikas said:


> Reports are now saying that it was the Ukrainians who accidentally shot down the Romanian Mig-21 and the rescue helicopter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian air defense system S-300 mistakenly shot down a Romanian fighter
> 
> 
> Ukraine mistakenly shot down a Romanian MiG-21 fighter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avia-pro.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501223758094389248


Took a page out of the Indian book!

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Well, numbers don't lie. I've been to Bangladesh just few months ago to fix few things at a client's factory.
> 
> BD passed India on per-capita GDP, AND their urban professional salaries are bigger than in most of India, sans Mumbai, and Delhi. Yet, some parts of Dhaka still do look like a warzone, there are plenty of older workers doing much worse on average, and overall feeling consistent with a country which just got out from the bottom of abyss 10 years ago.
> 
> Russia is a polar opposite - 50% higher education rate, yet very poor


Well, how a country perform is a "Perception" of anyone. But like you said, number don't lie. 

I mean, I can tell you probably about 100 things I admire the Russia, or even China, does that mean both places have better working environment than Australia or United States?

Again, number don't lies, and to think people quote number instead of perception is propagating propaganda is absurd, the reverse is true...

LOL, but well, what do you expect? It's PDF...


----------



## CrazyZ

The Mig 29 deal has hit some road blocks. My guess is that the Russians have told NATO that the transfer would be seen as an act of war.


----------



## onebyone

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501555402709864456

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## jhungary

CrazyZ said:


> The Mig 29 deal has hit some road blocks. My guess is that the Russians have told NATO that the transfer would be seen as an act of war.


Already discussed this with @gambit

There are virtually no way Poland can transfer those aircraft without going back on NATO neutrality in this. That is probably a non-starter and probably would be better off keep shipping those Stinger.

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## mmr

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501543775700762633


When? Not sure why usa and nato delaying all this


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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Already discussed this with @gambit
> 
> There are virtually no way Poland can transfer those aircraft without going back on NATO neutrality in this. That is probably a non-starter and probably would be better off keep shipping those Stinger.


So what the heck was Blinken talking about when he said it gets our green light?

USSR suppled aircraft to North Vietnam. 

ah well.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501120045887508482

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## mshan44

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=286167033597601


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## CrazyZ

thetutle said:


> So what the heck was Blinken talking about when he said it gets our green light?
> 
> USSR suppled aircraft to North Vietnam.
> 
> ah well.


Ukrainian pilots can only fly Mig 29. They are not trained for USA or western types. NATO would have to send pilots as well if Ukraine is provided with NATO type AC. Plus what ever they send, some of it will end up in Russian hands.

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## Ich

jhungary said:


> That's why the word "Gross" is important, because factor such as tax rate, expenditure would affect the indication.
> 
> How much you earn is how much you earn, how much you use is how much you use.
> 
> 
> How else do you think the Median Income and Average Gross Salary is calculated?



It doesnt matter if you add the word "gross". Its still nonsense. See my comment below to thetutle. According to your "gross" Germans have a little less income than Australiens. But then look at the prices Germans have to pay and Australiens have to pay. Your "gross" does not include this.



thetutle said:


> The Russians pay about 45 cents USD per litre in petrol "unleaded 95".
> 
> In Australia I pay $1.50 USD per litre.
> 
> So we will see how things go in Russia.
> 
> My heating bill in Australia is about $0 so thats good at least.



Well, you are a lucky one  At the moment i pay ~2,50 Dollar per litre in Germany. A lot of workers already quit their jobs cause they need to drive to their work 50+ kilometers a day and thus of the gasoline prices they have a negativ result in income. Also heating. Most in Germany do heat with gas. Gas prices in Germany go through the roof. We could buy it from Russia for 50-70$ the measuring unit, but it is sold for 700+$ (and in the next weeks up to 2000$) per measuring unit. That is why comparing "average income converted into dollar" is complete nonsense.

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## RescueRanger

The Ukrainians have had to issue this advisory to this fighters following a case of attacks on journalists:


----------



## Oldman1

Madni Bappa said:


> Poles are smart unlike Ukrainians. They know if something happens or Russia retaliates. Yanks will run away and leave them to fend for themselves. Just like they left Ukraine in the lurch.


The U.S. government needs to not dilly dally on the situation. The Poles are giving them the opportunity to take the jets off their hands and give it to Ukraine. Need to make a decisive move especially with NATO watching. If the Poles fear possible retaliation then the U.S. should take the lead and get the jets, paint them and give it to the Ukrainian pilots and done deal.


----------



## sur

Orange said:


> Finally, truth been spoken 🙌 👏
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501565371580657665


Bumping this post. Should be bumped once every day as a daily reminder for those who have very short memory or are blind in one eye, or are deliberate hypocrites.

Being a Muslim (*non-Muslims can look away and move along from what I'm going to say*) I want to remind that there's a death sentence in Islam and then there's a sentence bigger than death sentence.

That bigger one is:
*Quran:5:33*: "*cut hand and feet from opposite sides and cruicify*",
and you know whom it is for? For the instigators of mischief in earth, aka "fasadi" (فسادی). Same Fasadi who committed fasad in Muslim world very very recently and Pakistan is still suffering from it's consequences and see our soldiers and countrymen die weekly. Same fasadi instigated the fasad that we are discussing in this thread.






Rasool ALLAH prescribes similar punishment to three men who faked a conversion to Islam (*like a foreign agent who was arrested by Pakistan faked a conversion [Aaron Mark DeHaven, see his pictures below]*), them asked for Camel, Prophet gave them a driver as well, then they killed the driver and camel and bragged that they were just faking it. Prophet had them arrested, cut their hand and feet, and told everyone that no one will feed them and let them die of hunger in desert.

This is the punishment for فسادی.

.
.
.

Aaron Mark DeHaven.
Spoke Pashto, faked conversion to Islam, married to a Pakistani woman for 7 years. Applied for Pakistani citizenship. detained "under suspicion of espionage".
Ran "*Catalyst Services LLC*". Lived in _Falcon Complex_, right in the middle of Peshawar's military cantonment, located between Army Flats and the Pakistan Army Signals Post. But unfortunately simply deported by gutless people along with Raymond Davis. (Quran:5:33 does also prescribe exile though!!, ISI choose to go with that I guess)






















.
.
.
.
.
.
.


We have seen Vinnitsa airport attacked and members discussing why runway was not damaged as much.
Following tweet may explains why, Probably because there is intelligence sharing center there and that was the primary target, like communication equipment etc.?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501568900055638021
Also Following statement by NATO indicates that their intel indicates Rus doubling down on supply lines and comm lines coming from NATO to Urk:

NATO chief warns Russia away from attacking supply lines supporting Ukraine​
Then in last few hours we see multiple possible *air raids sirens at*:
Kiev, Bila Tserkva, Vasylkiv, Myronivka, and Vinnytsia.

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## Oldman1

Enigma SIG said:


> Why not.


Good question.


----------



## sammuel

mshan44 said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=286167033597601



Was it not Russia that fought Chechnya ? Why you try to pin those atrocities on Ukraine ?

~


----------



## coffee_cup

thetutle said:


> So what the heck was Blinken talking about when he said it gets our green light?
> 
> USSR suppled aircraft to North Vietnam.
> 
> ah well.



It means all talk.

Hot air. 

Giving something to their media to feed to their ignorant public.


----------



## thetutle

Ich said:


> It doesnt matter if you add the word "gross". Its still nonsense. See my comment below to thetutle. According to your "gross" Germans have a little less income than Australiens. But then look at the prices Germans have to pay and Australiens have to pay. Your "gross" does not include this.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you are a lucky one  At the moment i pay ~2,50 Dollar per litre in Germany. A lot of workers already quit their jobs cause they need to drive to their work 50+ kilometers a day and thus of the gasoline prices they have a negativ result in income. Also heating. Most in Germany do heat with gas. Gas prices in Germany go through the roof. We could buy it from Russia for 50-70$ the measuring unit, but it is sold for 700+$ (and in the next weeks up to 2000$) per measuring unit. That is why comparing "average income converted into dollar" is complete nonsense.



Well you better find alternative energy sources by next winter. It will be tough for you guys. australia wont suffer anything probably because of this. we export 66% of all the food we make and its just an extremely wealthy country. The biggest cost is housing. everything else is pretty cheap. 

And if worst comes to worst, there are 50 milion kangaroos running wild. Each has 40kg of meat. I have gun, so... I will not be running out of food. We also have quite a large coastline and more than a few fish. 

Germans could perhaps restart those nuclear plants that Merkel foolishly closed down.

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## coffee_cup

Ich said:


> It doesnt matter if you add the word "gross". Its still nonsense. See my comment below to thetutle. According to your "gross" Germans have a little less income than Australiens. But then look at the prices Germans have to pay and Australiens have to pay. Your "gross" does not include this.


You are wasting your time bro. 

When he was serving at IMF headquarters as personal assistant to the president, he got all this info.

Dont challenge him. Just like you dont challenge his postings all around the globe and beyond.

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## Oldman1

coffee_cup said:


> It means all talk.
> 
> Hot air.
> 
> Giving something to their media to feed to their ignorant public.


Russians already all talk warning and threatening those who already being delivering weapons killing thousands of Russian soldiers and wounding many more along with preventing them from achieving their goals.


----------



## Solidify

Ukraine Vs Afghan Conflict Similarities & Differences Version 2.0
watch


----------



## Clutch




----------



## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501554927465910277
Russians spying on Ukrainian defenders - here we can see a solider perched atop a roof of a high rise building next to him is an Anti Tank missile - then the camera pans and you can see two tanks within a residential complex.

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## coffee_cup

mshan44 said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=286167033597601


Graphic. Please use spoiler.

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## thetutle

sammuel said:


> Was it not Russia that fought Chechnya ? Why you try pin those atrocities on Ukraine ?
> 
> ~


This Chechen man and his wife so brutally executed by Russians were in the 67th SS division of the NAZI army. Thats the only explanation I can give.

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## coffee_cup

Oldman1 said:


> Russians already all talk warning and threatening those who already being delivering weapons killing thousands of Russian soldiers and wounding many more along with preventing them from achieving their goals.



When the so hotly discussed Polish Mig29 are delivered to Ukraine, come back and talk.

Till then it is just that... talk ... hot air!


----------



## Khan vilatey

thetutle said:


> So what the heck was Blinken talking about when he said it gets our green light?
> 
> USSR suppled aircraft to North Vietnam.
> 
> ah well.


Yes but flying jets from a polish/nato air field to Ukraine will be seen as an act of war by Poland against Russia. Imagine the jets taking off and shot down by Russian air force and the wreckage falls in Poland and kills 10 polls on the ground. What would we say then. What would happen when the Ukrainian mig-29 runs back to polish air space and the Russians shoot down mig -29s and f-16s providing CAP?

the only way they can provide weapons to Ukraine is by road. When they do so liviv will be leveled by the Russians to set an example 

k

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## Oldman1

coffee_cup said:


> When the so hotly discussed Polish Mig29 are delivered to Ukraine, come back and talk.
> 
> Till then it is just that... talk ... hot air!


So is threatening countries supplying weapons currently, we can talk about that.



Khan vilatey said:


> Yes but flying jets from a polish/nato air field to Ukraine will be seen as an act of war by Poland against Russia. Imagine the jets taking off and shot down by Russian air force and the wreckage falls in Poland and kills 10 polls on the ground. What would we say then. What would happen when the Ukrainian mig-29 runs back to polish air space and the Russians shoot down mig -29s and f-16s providing CAP?
> 
> the only way they can provide weapons to Ukraine is by road. When they do so liviv will be leveled by the Russians to set an example
> 
> k


No they haven’t leveled Liviv cause they haven’t done it and anything else in westward and wasting their missiles trying to. Why else is the Ukrainian Air Force still intact?


----------



## sammuel

~

A Russian governor in Siberia was recently engaged in an emotional confrontation with angry local people, who blamed him for deploying a local riot police unit as “cannon fodder” in Ukraine







~

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## RescueRanger

mshan44 said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=286167033597601


Hi, please use the spoiler button to hide graphic images - we don’t allow posting of graphic images on PDF - kindly edit the post.

Here is a guide on using the spoiler feature:

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## Constantin84

Foinikas said:


> Reports are now saying that it was the Ukrainians who accidentally shot down the Romanian Mig-21 and the rescue helicopter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian air defense system S-300 mistakenly shot down a Romanian fighter
> 
> 
> Ukraine mistakenly shot down a Romanian MiG-21 fighter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avia-pro.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501223758094389248


That is no report, just propaganda . No Romanian official channel has even peddled that crappy information. Stop polluting the thread which such nonsense.

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## Ich

thetutle said:


> Well you better find alternative energy sources by next winter. It will be tough for you guys. australia wont suffer anything probably because of this. we export 66% of all the food we make and its just an extremely wealthy country. The biggest cost is housing. everything else is pretty cheap.
> 
> And if worst comes to worst, there are 50 milion kangaroos running wild. Each has 40kg of meat. I have gun, so... I will not be running out of food. We also have quite a large coastline and more than a few fish.
> 
> Germans could perhaps restart those nuclear plants that Merkel foolishly closed down.



For two days there was a discussion about reopening the nuclear plants, but the idiots in gov denied it. The complete political class is of shitty idiots.

Germany has to switch to hydrogen economy to become independent of importing energy. 22 years ago we were on the way to it, but it was cancelled by the idiots politician. They all work for USA idiots and so do not want that Germany gets independent. Also we need 3-4 "atomic waste burner" nuclear plants from Russia (the BN Series, e.g. BN-1200 and better). It is always better to destroy the long radients of the nuclear waste by consuming it than buried it somewhere in the earth and dont knowing what happend then in 100+ years with it.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

The situation in Mariupol is getting worse by the day it is turning into hell on earth

Looks like scenes from Armageddon

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501577673218342915

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501574690682376198


----------



## Meengla

thetutle said:


> Well you better find alternative energy sources by next winter. It will be tough for you guys. australia wont suffer anything probably because of this. we export 66% of all the food we make and its just an extremely wealthy country. The biggest cost is housing. everything else is pretty cheap.
> 
> And if worst comes to worst, there are 50 milion kangaroos running wild. Each has 40kg of meat. I have gun, so... I will not be running out of food. We also have quite a large coastline and more than a few fish.
> 
> Germans could perhaps restart those nuclear plants that Merkel foolishly closed down.



Australia is very blessed indeed. As are the Americas and Africa below the northern regions as are the island nations. Screwed are the Eurasian people!! Wars, terrible wars. Constant wars. Long wars. Probably historically the most violent region in the world. 

As for Russia, you are right in a post above: Even Russians living in nuclear bunker would have better life than many Indians living relatively unscathed by the war. But let's not get too hung up on that; we have wasted too much time on this thread over someone's mistake about India vs Russia. We all make mistakes. 

I don't think sanctions are going to hurt Russia to the point of major socioeconomic pain except to the already well off. Russia has enormous resources. Their standard of living is going to go down for sure but probably not enough to cause a mass uprising. The best to be expected for is a military coup against Putin.

Speaking of Russian soldiers' mutiny, worth watching this scene. Yes, I have seen this movie and the newer one (2002) many times!


----------



## RescueRanger

The US embassy in Moscow has requested that all American citizens leave the country immediately:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501553273001684995


----------



## comci

Indian Libertarian said:


> Lol I’m not willing to die for what happens in Ukraine. No one in far off America wants to die. The lives of billions in the world are worth more than the Ukrainian state “surviving”.



According to thetutle, we should all die to stop putin. You know thetutle bosnian guy can predict what we will do hence he speaks for all of us. he has telepathic skill.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Meengla said:


> Australia is very blessed indeed. As are the Americas and Africa below the northern regions as are the island nations. Screwed are the Eurasian people!! Wars, terrible wars. Constant wars. Long wars. Probably historically the most violent region in the world.



America is not out of the big Eurasian mess. This will eventually come to the American streets and the same with Australia including Maghreeb and Egypt they are not out of sight but Sub-Sharan Africa is and some Islanders in the east and west like Jamaica, DR, Boliva etc etc Samao islands so on and so furth but not the Americans and aussies. They are suked into the never-ending competition on the Eurasian plain.


----------



## thetutle

Khan vilatey said:


> Imagine the jets taking off and shot down by Russian air force and the wreckage falls in Poland and kills 10 polls on the ground. What would we say then.


Surah Al-Fatiha?



Khan vilatey said:


> What would happen when the Ukrainian mig-29 runs back to polish air space and the Russians shoot down mig -29s and f-16s providing CAP?


Mayday Mayday Mayday! we have 2 friendlies down! ?


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501560205800259592

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## Paul2

RescueRanger said:


> The US embassy in Moscow has requested that all American citizens leave the country immediately:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501553273001684995



They feel how weak is the Biden 100%, I feel they are about to throw something directly at US presence in Europe now to humiliate him.

Biden is as irrational now, as Putin

He is a toast if USA enter the conflict
He is a toast if USA not enters the conflict
He is a toast if USA enters the conflict, but things go sideways
He is a toast if USA backstabs Eastern European NATO members
He is a toast if USA's inaction causes EU to seize leadership in NATO bloc
He is a toast if he continues being humiliated 24/7 by things like Polish plane deal
He is a toast basically in any arrangement, and he is still attempting to vaingloriously secure his 2nd term at any cost.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Something really big was dropped on Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501584534063783950

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## Hassan Al-Somal

VIDEO ⚡️ Azov ATGM crews on the roofs of high-rise buildings in Mariupol ⚡️

The project @wargonzoo drone footage showing how neo-Nazis from Azov use high-rise buildings in Mariupol to equip firing positions.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501554927465910277

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak



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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501483312044466178

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## thetutle

comci said:


> According to thetutle, we should all die to stop putin. You know thetutle bosnian guy can predict what we will do hence he speaks for all of us. he has telepathic skill.



We just have to stop this territorial expansion and emerging democracies being swallowed up by a tyranny. I think there is a Europe wide, a western world wide consensus on this. 

Now you are in holland, I dont know if you are dutch or maybe Chinese but if you are not on the side of Europe and your loyalties dont lie with the free people of Europe thats fine, but one day soon if this becomes more serious the liberal Europe that we know today will become a lot lot less tolerant against people that dont have its best interest at heart.

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## zartosht

Gas prices are absolutely skyrocketing... With no hope in sight.

All these stupid western cheerleaders cheering on sanctions, I hope they have a good horse or a donkey to ride on soon. And get a good wood stove, and chop wood down for heat like your ancestors had for centuries.

Western people know their media lies to them, they are highly suspicious of that media when it comes to politics. But for whatever reason, they believe their media 110% every single time they get into some military adventure. Its ALWAYS justified, and altruistic. And when shit hits the fan, they just ignore it and move on to the next country to destroy. 

Get them donkeys and gas stoves ready... you will be needing it soon. Perhaps start growing your own food as well. cause higher energery prices and supply disruptions will make food prices and inflation go thru the roof.....

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## PakAlp

Ceasefire should be announced soon.

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## Wergeland 2.0

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> The situation in Mariupol is getting worse by the day it is turning into hell on earth
> 
> Looks like scenes from Armageddon
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501577673218342915
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501574690682376198



Is a creepy Silen Hill vibe to those footages

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

zartosht said:


> Gas prices are absolutely skyrocketing... With no hope in sight.
> 
> All these stupid western cheerleaders cheering on sanctions, I hope they have a good horse or a donkey to ride on soon. And get a good wood stove, and chop wood down for heat like your ancestors had for centuries.
> 
> Western people know their media lies to them, they are highly suspicious of that media when it comes to politics. But for whatever reason, they believe their media 110% every single time they get into some military adventure. Its ALWAYS justified, and altruistic. And when shit hits the fan, they just ignore it and move on to the next country to destroy.
> 
> Get them donkeys and gas stoves ready... you will be needing it soon. Perhaps start growing your own food as well. cause higher energery prices and supply disruptions will make food prices and inflation go thru the roof.....



Europe will be hit next winter not in this winter because it is almost summer and in few weeks time it is spring it will get warmer and gas won't be necessary but look out for next winter


----------



## thetutle

zartosht said:


> Gas prices are absolutely skyrocketing... With no hope in sight.
> 
> All these stupid western cheerleaders cheering on sanctions, I hope they have a good horse or a donkey to ride on soon. And get a good wood stove, and chop wood down for heat like your ancestors had for centuries.
> 
> Western people know their media lies to them, they are highly suspicious of that media when it comes to politics. But for whatever reason, they believe their media 110% every single time they get into some military adventure. Its ALWAYS justified, and altruistic. And when shit hits the fan, they just ignore it and move on to the next country to destroy.
> 
> Get them donkeys and gas stoves ready... you will be needing it soon. Perhaps start growing your own food as well. cause higher energery prices and supply disruptions will make food prices and inflation go thru the roof.....


It will certainly be difficult. But dont worry too much, if prices get out of control there must be some Middle East dictatorship that westerners will find to "liberate" in order to plunder their oil and gas.

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## RescueRanger

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Something really big was dropped on Mariupol
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501584534063783950


For comparison this is what 1300lbs of ANFO (fertiliser bomb) mixed with aluminium did at Marriott in Islamabad:

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## Malik Alpha

mshan44 said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=286167033597601


This is why I don't support any party in this conflict. Both are mad dogs and if they die fighting each other good for humanity.


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

thetutle said:


> It will certainly be difficult. But dont worry too much, if prices get out of control there must be some Middle East dictatorship that westerners will find to "liberate" in order to plunder their oil and gas.



Outside of Iran or Venezuela there is nobody to plunder..

There is nobody to plunder unless you wanna try a suicidal attempt on KSA and start mother of all wars aka WW3 which is the Kabba and trigger biblical proportion events. Venezuela and Iran remain viable options but other then that there is nobody else on the table.. If they set foot on KSA they will get tactical nuked


----------



## CIA Mole

PakAlp said:


> Ceasefire should be announced soon.






nah US will never allow

we like watching the rest of the world floundering about over resources

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## thetutle

Malik Alpha said:


> This is why I don't support any party in this conflict. Both are mad dogs and if they die fighting each other good for humanity.


Thats a more rational approach then supporting Russia in this. 

also. regarding that video posted about about the Russian army interaction with that Muslim family. Can you guys try to guess why those Russians didn't kill the girl in the video at that point?



Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Outside of Iran or Venezuela there is nobody to plunder..
> 
> There is nobody to plunder unless you wanna try a suicidal attempt on KSA and start mother of all wars aka WW3 which is the Kabba. Venezuela and Iran remain viable options but other then that there is nobody else on the table.. If the set foot on KSA they will get tactical nuked


Who would nuke them? 

maybe they dont even need to set foot in it, just ask one of his relatives to take over. The current guy would just meet some CIA guy, get a bad headache and pass away. and a cousin would take over that wants to increase oil production.

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## CIA Mole

thetutle said:


> Thats a more rational approach then supporting Russia in this.
> 
> also. regarding that video posted about about the Russian army interaction with that Muslim family. Can you guys try to guess why those Russians didn't kill the girl in the video at that point?
> 
> 
> Who would nuke them?
> 
> maybe they dont even need to set foot in it, just ask one of his relatives to take over. The current guy would just meet some CIA guy, get a bad headache and pass away. and a cousin would take over that wants to increase oil production.


lol stop it we dont support either side


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

thetutle said:


> Thats a more rational approach then supporting Russia in this.
> 
> also. regarding that video posted about about the Russian army interaction with that Muslim family. Can you guys try to guess why those Russians didn't kill the girl in the video at that point?
> 
> 
> Who would nuke them?
> 
> maybe they dont even need to set foot in it, just ask one of his relatives to take over. The current guy would just meet some CIA guy, get a bad headache and pass away. and a cousin would take over that wants to increase oil production.



Good luck with that.. Who else do you think.. The world is not build on fantasy. All these attempts backfire if anything a hardline group will takeover if just a slight friction was to occur. If just a small unrest occurs in the holy areas the world goes out of the window.. It could setup biblical events that nobody wants and carnage.. Everything will get crushed as if an elephant has overrun them...

You can't try to even remove Mullah Baradar from power by touching a button for a first? prove it and let us see the magic? What do you think the world is locked inside a comicbook


----------



## Foinikas

Constantin84 said:


> That is no report, just propaganda . No Romanian official channel has even peddled that crappy information. Stop polluting the thread which such nonsense.


"Polluting?"


----------



## LeGenD

A1Kaid said:


> Exactly, Russia is using the minimal amount of force and resources it needs to take and complete its objectives. The rest of the force and resources are on standby in case NATO gets involved or the homeland comes under attack. On top of that Russia is fighting this war mainly with conscripts, paramilitary and some military regulars.
> 
> Ukrainian cities Kyiv and Mariupol are all about done for.



Minimum force? Russian military operation in Ukraine seems to be bigger in scale and scope than Soviet military operation in Afghanistan. Besides directing a large number of Russian troops to this end, Putin administration felt the need to call Belarusian troops, Wagner mercenaries and even Chechens to assist them in Ukraine. Given the size of Russian economy, this is significant deployment to fight a war. Much of Russian navy is deployed in Black Sea as well. Russia have its hands full in Ukraine in short.

Russia is not equipped to challenge NATO in conventional terms. It can keep NATO at bay with its nuclear force but NATO is not looking forward to invade Russia or something on these lines.



SIPRA said:


> A sane post, after quite some time.


See above.

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## Constantin84

Foinikas said:


> "Polluting?"


Yes.. polluting....stop peddling random tweets when this is not even for debate in Romania. Guys like you spreading random propaganda should be instantly banned


----------



## TNT

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501120045887508482



They are only warmongers and cheerleader for wars. The main reason for brexit was because they didnt want eastern Europeans to come to UK. Now even after pushing them to war, they still wont accept them living in UK.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

*Russian Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Maria Zakharova: We confirm the facts revealed during the special military operation in Ukraine of the Kiev regime’s emergency cleansing of traces of the military biological program implemented by Kiev with funding from the US Department of Defense.*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501591718310957057


----------



## LeGenD

lamdacore said:


> A lot of analysts do not believe the shit going around on twitterland that Russia this curling up to die. We are still witnessing the early stages of the war. This is going to become a war of attrition and both sides will suffer losses. Its strange that only the West knows how well Ukraine is doing and how bad the war is going for Russia. That is what happens when you control information.


NATO can monitor developments in Ukraine in real time with its extensive surveillance apparatus. Others are not in the position to do this.

Reports such as these:









Nearly all of Russia's initial invasion forces now in Ukraine, Pentagon says


Nearly all of the 190,000 Russian troops that were amassed on Ukraine's border are now fighting inside the country, a senior Pentagon official said Monday.




www.cnbc.com





- are informed by observations through surveillance apparatus.


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501594460521742338


----------



## Wood

This did not age well

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501592653418442752

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## sur

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> The situation in Mariupol is getting worse by the day it is turning into hell on earth
> 
> Looks like scenes from Armageddon
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501577673218342915
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501574690682376198


Question: "What sick person destroys children’s hospital????"
Answer#1: "Americans" when they invaded Baghdad "US aircraft hit a Red Crescent maternity hospital in Baghdad".
Answer#2: Those in camo attire who took positions inside/on roof tops of hospital.
















An intact one for comparison of camo dress:







.
.
.
.
.

And some older evidence, as reminder is necessary:


















Inside a day care:






Another Kindergarten used by Urk soldiers:

__
https://www.tiktok.com/video/7072760912523955462




Amid apartments:





















And also inside nuclear reactor's office buildings:









Weapons/NLAW transported in civilian cars (2nd tweet) :


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501420846078107650

2nd tweet has translation:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501902656348082185

2nd tweet shows another proof of Ukr using human shield.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500497078534955014

Tank running over car lie of Ukr/West:








Ukraine: These videos do not show a Russian tank running over a civilian in Kyiv


On Twitter, videos from February 25 showing a military tank running over a car in the Obolon district of Ukraine's capital city Kyiv have garnered over ten million views. But contrary to what some users…




amp.observers.france24.com

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501595177592541187

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501514434807795713


----------



## thetutle



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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501502800429207555


----------



## thetutle

One option being floated is that polish aircraft be sent to Kosovo and form there taken by the ukranian pilots and flown to Ukraine. 

Kosovo is unrecognised by Russia or Ukraine. In Russian eyes it is Serbian territory. 

Kosovars will do this gladly I think. Russia could bomb them. But there are US bases there. 

And if they bombed it no Russian would ever walk the streets of Kosovo again. Already any slavic language spoken in Kosovo would invite very dangerous stares from the locals. 

If the locals catch you, you would very quickly have to prove you are not Serbian or Russian. 

so Kosovo is being considered.


----------



## Meengla

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501592653418442752



A real Chechen leader would look for an historic opportunity to break free from Russia should this war go really bad for Russia! Russia is destined to be a country limited to the west of the Urals, and integrated with Europe, and the lands acquired through conquests of last few centuries is not some permanent 'lease' given to the Russians.
As always, noting something is not the same as wishing something. It is just an observation.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501437172502642690

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## Meengla

thetutle said:


> One option being floated is that polish aircraft be sent to Kosovo and form there taken by the ukranian pilots and flown to Ukraine.
> 
> Kosovo is unrecognised by Russia or Ukraine. In Russian eyes it is Serbian territory.
> 
> Kosovars will do this gladly I think. Russia could bomb them. But there are US bases there.
> 
> And if they bombed it no Russian would ever walk the streets of Kosovo again. Already any slavic language spoken in Kosovo would invite very dangerous stares from the locals.
> 
> If the locals catch you, you would very quickly have to prove you are not Serbian or Russian.
> 
> so Kosovo is being considered.



I think now you are losing it!!


----------



## nang2

thetutle said:


> One option being floated is that polish aircraft be sent to Kosovo and form there taken by the ukranian pilots and flown to Ukraine.
> 
> Kosovo is unrecognised by Russia or Ukraine. In Russian eyes it is Serbian territory.
> 
> Kosovars will do this gladly I think. Russia could bomb them. But there are US bases there.
> 
> And if they bombed it no Russian would ever walk the streets of Kosovo again. Already any slavic language spoken in Kosovo would invite very dangerous stares from the locals.
> 
> If the locals catch you, you would very quickly have to prove you are not Serbian or Russian.
> 
> so Kosovo is being considered.


Ukrainian is also another slavic language.


----------



## Madni Bappa

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501514434807795713


I'm seeing this video second time. Last time it said Belarusians joining Russian invasion. Now it say joining Ukrainians.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501518911543693319

The US now assesses that Russia has lost 8-10% of its forces in the first 2 weeks of fighting. That’s up from 5% a couple days ago.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> A real Chechen leader would look for an historic opportunity to break free from Russia should this war go really bad for Russia! Russia is destined to be a country limited to the west of the Urals, and integrated with Europe, and the lands acquired through conquests of last few centuries is not some permanent 'lease' given to the Russians.
> As always, noting something is not the same as wishing something. It is just an observation.


I have no doubt, all of these guys would turn on Russia in a heartbeat when the time comes. 

Every one of them you can almost guarantee had a father killed, sister or aunty raped just like on that video. These a tribal people and they dont forgive or forget. 

Arming these guys and giving them any power will be the biggest mistake Russia has ever make.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501292495342292994

Reactions: Love Love:
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## nang2

Meengla said:


> A real Chechen leader would look for an historic opportunity to break free from Russia should this war go really bad for Russia! Russia is destined to be a country limited to the west of the Urals, and integrated with Europe, and the lands acquired through conquests of last few centuries is not some permanent 'lease' given to the Russians.
> As always, noting something is not the same as wishing something. It is just an observation.


Chechen is also at the west of the Urals.


----------



## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501518911543693319
> 
> The US now assesses that Russia has lost 8-10% of its forces in the first 2 weeks of fighting. That’s up from 5% a couple days ago.




If Russia continues to lose assets at this pace, it could be game over for Russia by early to mid April.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Clutch

thetutle said:


>



Great video... Thanks for sharing


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501577368049176584

Reactions: Love Love:
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## thetutle

nang2 said:


> Ukrainian is also another slavic language.


Yeah I know, Albanians in the region are not fond of it. I walked into a take away food place once in Macedonia in an Albanian majority city (me not knowing it was Albanian), and greeted the workers with a "good evening" which is the same in Serbian, Bosnian, Russian, ukrnaian. and the whole restaurant stopped and turned around and looked at me. 

If I went to KKK meeting and soured Allahuakbar! I would not have has such a response. 

So I sat there and ate my food and it wasn't long before I was greeted by a customer who politely inquired where I was from. and then he just got up and told everyone I'm a Bosnian and they all just laughed. 

Albanians are not concerned about Russian threats one little bit. But we'll see what the Americans do about the migs

Reactions: Like Like:
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## nang2

thetutle said:


> Yeah I know, Albanians in the region are not fond of it. I walked into a take away food place once in Macedonia in an Albanian majority city (me not knowing it was Albanian), and greeted the workers with a "good evening" which is the same in Serbian, Bosnian, Russian, ukrnaian. and the whole restaurant stopped and turned around and looked at me.
> 
> If I went to KKK meeting and soured Allahuakbar! I would not have has such a response.
> 
> So I sat there and ate my food and it wasn't long before I was greeted by a customer who politely inquired where I was from. and then he just got up and told everyone I'm a Bosnian and they all just laughed.
> 
> Albanians are not concerned about Russian threats one little bit. But we'll see what the Americans do about the migs


Great story. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501592741469429765

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## ProudPak

Foinikas said:


> Reports are now saying that it was the Ukrainians who accidentally shot down the Romanian Mig-21 and the rescue helicopter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian air defense system S-300 mistakenly shot down a Romanian fighter
> 
> 
> Ukraine mistakenly shot down a Romanian MiG-21 fighter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> avia-pro.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501223758094389248


And this news has been suppressed.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501606982536601608
US Sec of State

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## RescueRanger

Britain is planning on sending the worlds most advanced anti aircraft system to Ukraine:









Defence Secretary statement to the House of Commons on Ukraine: 9 March 2022


Defence Secretary Ben Wallace gave a statement to the House of Commons on Ukraine.




www.gov.uk





You can read more about the weapon system here:









STARStreak


Starstreak II is an evolution of the in-service Starstreak High Velocity Missile...




www.thalesgroup.com





_*Edit*_: after speaking to someone who knows a lot more about these systems - the shipment will be the Star Streak HVM and not the Star Streak II.

Still a lethal addition to Ukraine’s Arsenal.


----------



## Primus

RescueRanger said:


> Britain is planning on sending the worlds most advanced anti aircraft system to Ukraine:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Defence Secretary statement to the House of Commons on Ukraine: 9 March 2022
> 
> 
> Defence Secretary Ben Wallace gave a statement to the House of Commons on Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gov.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can read more about the weapon system here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> STARStreak
> 
> 
> Starstreak II is an evolution of the in-service Starstreak High Velocity Missile...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thalesgroup.com


Ugh. I hate that SAM when im in my heli

All the time some British main camping in his spawn with the starstreaks. The f*cking tri force from zelda coming strsight at you at mach speeds. Knowing you cantshoot it down with either dumb rockets or vikhrs. Knowing you are baisically f-ed

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501590449676554244


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501610704847134720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501612898594004993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501613522400202760

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## RescueRanger

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501590449676554244


We kinda knew that from day 1 looking at the state of some of the soldiers who surrendered. 

Open secret. 😂



Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501610704847134720
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501612898594004993
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501613522400202760


This madness has to end.


----------



## bobo6661

> We kinda knew that from day 1 looking at the state of some of the soldiers who surrendered.
> 
> Open secret. 😂


Of course it just to show how much putin word is worth 😂 And that means there where realy a great number of them killed if they stoped hidding it .


----------



## RescueRanger

Huffal said:


> Ugh. I hate that SAM when im in my heli
> 
> All the time some British main camping in his spawn with the starstreaks. The f*cking tri force from zelda coming strsight at you at mach speeds. Knowing you cantshoot it down with either dumb rockets or vikhrs. Knowing you are baisically f-ed


OT but are you in the military or reserves? A friend of mine is a British Pakistani studying for his masters in IA and is in the reserves.



bobo6661 said:


> Of course it just to show how much putin word is worth 😂


What does a war memorial have to do with Putins words?


----------



## Meengla

nang2 said:


> Chechen is also at the west of the Urals.



I know. But of course I was referring to the Christian/White European Russia roughly west of the Urals which is very distinct from the Caucasus Muslim regions like Chechnya. 



thetutle said:


> Yeah I know, Albanians in the region are not fond of it. I walked into a take away food place once in Macedonia in an Albanian majority city (me not knowing it was Albanian), and greeted the workers with a "good evening" which is the same in Serbian, Bosnian, Russian, ukrnaian. and the whole restaurant stopped and turned around and looked at me.
> 
> If I went to KKK meeting and soured Allahuakbar! I would not have has such a response.
> 
> So I sat there and ate my food and it wasn't long before I was greeted by a customer who politely inquired where I was from. and then he just got up and told everyone I'm a Bosnian and they all just laughed.
> 
> Albanians are not concerned about Russian threats one little bit. But we'll see what the Americans do about the migs



I don't know how my account relates to what you are saying because I don't know the ethnic sensitivities of the Balkans much but here it is: Once on a multiday ocean cruise there was a young bartender which had 'Macedonia' written on his badge. So I asked him, naively: "Are you from the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia?' (FYOM. I had probably heard that in some blog or something like that). The guy glared at me and said: "You must be from Greece!". After that, no apology or extra tips would please him and he remained barely courteous to me for rest of the cruise!!

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Primus

RescueRanger said:


> OT but are you in the military or reserves? A friend of mine is a British Pakistani studying for his masters in IA and is in the reserves.


O_O

I... I was referring to war thunder...

Also im not in the military

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## bobo6661

RescueRanger said:


> What does a war memorial have to do with Putins words?


wrong quote

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501593425891807235
The Russians now looting chickens for food

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## RescueRanger

Lol the UK government is panicking over troops going AWOL to fight in Ukraine:









Black Isle Media - MoD Scrambles to Stop UK Squaddies Going to Ukraine


The UK Ministry of Defence has launched into action to discourage British Soldiers travelling to Ukraine following some already going AWOL.




universalcreditsuffer.com







bobo6661 said:


> wrong quote


That’s okay. 🙂



Huffal said:


> O_O
> 
> I... I was referring to war thunder...
> 
> Also im not in the military


Haha of course I know you were referring to WT 😂. I was just curious that’s why I asked. 🙂👍

For those of you who were wondering what happened to *Mr. Leon*, turns out the Ukrainians didn’t want him and sent him home 😂















Ukraine war: Briton who volunteered to join fight against Russia turned down and told he would be 'a liability'


Leon Dawson tells Sky News he has now travelled to Poland's border with Ukraine to deliver aid to the war-torn country - and he is still willing to take up arms if required.




news.sky.com

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501599403353726978


----------



## thetutle

Meengla said:


> I don't know how my account relates to what you are saying because I don't know the ethnic sensitivities of the Balkans much but here it is: Once on a multiday ocean cruise there was a young bartender which had 'Macedonia' written on his badge. So I asked him, naively: "Are you from the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia?' (FYOM. I had probably heard that in some blog or something like that). The guy glared at me and said: "You must be from Greece!". After that, no apology or extra tips would please him and he remained barely courteous to me for rest of the cruise!!


Hes a slavic Macedonian. They get very sensitive about their country's name. People call them FYROM-ians. It upsets them. I dont see the big deal. We call Bosnia Herzegovina "BH". its just easier and quicker.

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## zartosht

RescueRanger said:


> Lol the UK government is panicking over troops going AWOL to fight in Ukraine:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Black Isle Media - MoD Scrambles to Stop UK Squaddies Going to Ukraine
> 
> 
> The UK Ministry of Defence has launched into action to discourage British Soldiers travelling to Ukraine following some already going AWOL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> universalcreditsuffer.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That’s okay. 🙂
> 
> 
> Haha of course I know you were referring to WT 😂. I was just curious that’s why I asked. 🙂👍
> 
> For those of you who were wondering what happened to *Mr. Leon*, turns out the Ukrainians didn’t want him and sent him home 😂
> 
> View attachment 822398
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine war: Briton who volunteered to join fight against Russia turned down and told he would be 'a liability'
> 
> 
> Leon Dawson tells Sky News he has now travelled to Poland's border with Ukraine to deliver aid to the war-torn country - and he is still willing to take up arms if required.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.sky.com



He would be a propaganda "liability".. as a black man joining the Neo-nazi ukrainian army would have had alot more to fear from his "Ukrainian comrades" then any Russian. This guy would have gone back to Britain, and validated Russian statements about a nazi army..

thats why hes a "liability"

Hearing that phone call between nuland and the ukies. Where she was literally telling the ukies who she prefers in what position was absolutely sickening.. How can any ukie with pride see that, and still believe in this western installed junta?

This is an existential battle for Russia. Russia will exterminate these nazis come what may...... The west has already thrown every economic card they had at Russia. They have 0 escalatory moves left. While Russia has infinite. Starting with actually using their serious artillery like tos-1s..

anybody predicting a "putin loss" or a "ukie win" as the western media is telling you, is in for a nasty shock.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501621810806284296

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501620736452145157

Russia committing mass war crimes now

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## sur

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501593425891807235
> The Russians now looting chickens for food



Sorry man but following is for Urdu speaking folks: 







It says "Your hens are running around in my house, if someone fries them for me what can I do!" 
Though not quite fit for the video of Russians.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501593698336976899


----------



## seoiscisi

I hope this war ends.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501363027765080070


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501476568522240003

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501623766429966340

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Wood said:


> This did not age well
> 
> View attachment 822356



What does ASB stand for?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501558597959835656

SpaceX trolling Russia again

Reactions: Love Love:
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## thetutle

jamal18 said:


> Scott Ritter, very good. About 40 minutes.


What a guy, Putins useful idiot, has a Russian wife, went to jail for trying to have sex with a child. A standup guy.


----------



## HaMoTZeMaS

Alright in parallel universe, Ukraine is turning the tide

IN real world, surrender preparations on way

In nod to Russia, Ukraine says no longer insisting on NATO membership​








In nod to Russia, Ukraine says no longer insisting on NATO membership


President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said he is no longer pressing for NATO membership for Ukraine, a delicate issue that was one of Russia's stated reasons for




english.alarabiya.net

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

HaMoTZeMaS said:


> Alright in parallel universe, Ukraine is turning the tide
> 
> IN real world, surrender preparations on way
> 
> In nod to Russia, Ukraine says no longer insisting on NATO membership​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In nod to Russia, Ukraine says no longer insisting on NATO membership
> 
> 
> President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said he is no longer pressing for NATO membership for Ukraine, a delicate issue that was one of Russia's stated reasons for
> 
> 
> 
> 
> english.alarabiya.net



This is no surrender. As Ukraine can't join NATO anyways and this is not even way the war itself happened but they were aligned to the west.

Besides Russia seeks Odessa to Luhansk which the Ukrainians can't surrender or acknowledge ever hence the Russians will have to take it from them by force and will continue this operation probably taking all of Ukraine in the next few months which will shake the world.

The Russians understand they just gotta be patient to secure all of Ukraine

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> What does ASB stand for?


Don't know / care


----------



## CrazyZ

RescueRanger said:


> Lol the UK government is panicking over troops going AWOL to fight in Ukraine:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Black Isle Media - MoD Scrambles to Stop UK Squaddies Going to Ukraine
> 
> 
> The UK Ministry of Defence has launched into action to discourage British Soldiers travelling to Ukraine following some already going AWOL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> universalcreditsuffer.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That’s okay. 🙂
> 
> 
> Haha of course I know you were referring to WT 😂. I was just curious that’s why I asked. 🙂👍
> 
> For those of you who were wondering what happened to *Mr. Leon*, turns out the Ukrainians didn’t want him and sent him home 😂
> 
> View attachment 822398
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine war: Briton who volunteered to join fight against Russia turned down and told he would be 'a liability'
> 
> 
> Leon Dawson tells Sky News he has now travelled to Poland's border with Ukraine to deliver aid to the war-torn country - and he is still willing to take up arms if required.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.sky.com


I thought it was confirmed that this British "volunteer" was an actor.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Kraetoz

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> This is no surrender. As Ukraine can't join NATO anyways and this is not even way the war itself happened but they were aligned to the west.


Yes no surrender, West will fight Russia till the last Ukrainian.

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## CrazyZ

HaMoTZeMaS said:


> Alright in parallel universe, Ukraine is turning the tide
> 
> IN real world, surrender preparations on way
> 
> In nod to Russia, Ukraine says no longer insisting on NATO membership​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In nod to Russia, Ukraine says no longer insisting on NATO membership
> 
> 
> President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said he is no longer pressing for NATO membership for Ukraine, a delicate issue that was one of Russia's stated reasons for
> 
> 
> 
> 
> english.alarabiya.net


If they stated that a month ago......they could have avoided all this death and destruction.

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## Tamerlane

A video on BitChute with a Russian guy's analysis. In Russian with English subtitles.









Украинский фронт Стратегия без тактики with English subtitles


Украинский фронт Стратегия без тактики with English subtitles




www.bitchute.com

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## reflecthofgeismar

sur said:


> Question: "What sick person destroys children’s hospital????"
> Answer#1: "Americans" when they invaded Baghdad "US aircraft hit a Red Crescent maternity hospital in Baghdad".
> Answer#2: Those in camo attire who took positions inside/on roof tops of hospital.
> 
> View attachment 822355
> 
> 
> View attachment 822357
> 
> 
> View attachment 822358
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An intact one for comparison of camo dress:
> View attachment 822359
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> 
> And some older evidence, as reminder is necessary:
> 
> 
> View attachment 822374
> 
> 
> View attachment 822380
> 
> 
> View attachment 822360
> 
> 
> 
> Inside a day care:
> 
> View attachment 822362
> 
> 
> 
> Amid apartments:
> 
> View attachment 822365
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 822378
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 822379
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And also inside nuclear reactor's office buildings:
> 
> View attachment 822408


Well, could say the same about all ME/WA insurgent groups, especially Hamas.
Russians don't do roof-knocking (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roof_knocking) as much as I know.

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## Gripen9

RescueRanger said:


> So now that KFC and McDonald’s have exited Russia. Perhaps it’s times for Colonel Zulfiqar to make an entry:
> 
> View attachment 822204


ZFC still says kentucky in Arabic

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501496001814839297

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RescueRanger

App


CrazyZ said:


> I thought it was confirmed that this British "volunteer" was an actor.


Apparently not.



reflecthofgeismar said:


> Well, could say the same about all ME/WA insurgent groups, especially Hamas.
> Russians don't do roof-knocking (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roof_knocking) as much as I know.


Well said



Gripen9 said:


> ZFC still says kentucky in Arabic


I know that’s why I posted it 😂


----------



## OldTwilight

Meengla said:


> A real Chechen leader would look for an historic opportunity to break free from Russia should this war go really bad for Russia! Russia is destined to be a country limited to the west of the Urals, and integrated with Europe, and the lands acquired through conquests of last few centuries is not some permanent 'lease' given to the Russians.
> As always, noting something is not the same as wishing something. It is just an observation.


that why Russians are using best of Chechens as main attacking force


----------



## HaMoTZeMaS

Hints of a Ukraine-Russia Deal?​
_Seems US is trying hard to keep the War going.._

Zelensky appears to float suggestions of a compromise, but U.S. officials fear Putin could double down.​








Hints of a Ukraine-Russia Deal?


Zelensky appears to float suggestions of a compromise, but U.S. officials fear Putin could double down.




foreignpolicy.com

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## NA71

Ukrainians are now nodding to Russian primary demand after having much of their infrastructure destroyed....The war front may stop ...but the foundation of long enmity has been successfully laid. The sanctions enforcing countries have already been listed by kremlin....

Welcome to Cold War 2.0

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

HaMoTZeMaS said:


> Hints of a Ukraine-Russia Deal?​
> _Seems US is trying hard to keep the War going.._
> 
> Zelensky appears to float suggestions of a compromise, but U.S. officials fear Putin could double down.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hints of a Ukraine-Russia Deal?
> 
> 
> Zelensky appears to float suggestions of a compromise, but U.S. officials fear Putin could double down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> foreignpolicy.com



I don't think the US has anything to say in it.. The Ukrainians will not accept giving away over 50% of their territories including being demilitarized by Russia.. Including recognizing Crimea and DPR and LPR..

The offer was given to them so that they don't accept it and it was on purpose and Ukraine won't accept anything short of Russia withdrawing

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501634012451946497

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## HaMoTZeMaS

Thing getting Nasty for US...

USA admits there are Biolabs in Ukraine, says if a biological attack happens ‘it is Russia’s fault’​









USA admits there are Biolabs in Ukraine, says any biological attack will be 'Russia's fault'


The Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland admitted that Ukraine has "biological research facilities" and the USA is concerned that a biological attack may happen, because of Russia. | OpIndia News




www.opindia.com





They called it a conspiracy theory but United States just acknowledged existence of bio labs in Ukraine​








They called it a conspiracy theory but United States just acknowledged existence of bio labs in Ukraine


The US admitted on Tuesday that Ukraine houses “biological research facilities” with Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs Victoria Nuland telling Senator Marco Rubio saying that the US is concerned the ‘research facilities’ could come under the control of Russian forces. We are working...




www.timesnownews.com






Interestingly India is Talking against Masters Lol

*"Ukraine has biological research facilities," says Under Secretary Victoria Nuland. She has "no doubt" that in the event of a biological or chemical attack, #Russia would be responsible.


 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501547268553711619*

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501319736197619712

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## thetutle

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501513137589309441
Russia soldier: lets have a moments silence for those Russians killed in ukraine
TV presenter: no our soldiers haven't died there. they are just eliminating nazis.

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## bobo6661

HaMoTZeMaS said:


> Thing getting Nasty for US...
> 
> USA admits there are Biolabs in Ukraine, says if a biological attack happens ‘it is Russia’s fault’​



Why nasty ? Show me a country that does not have biolabs ....


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501612458879897603

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## coffee_cup

bobo6661 said:


> Why nasty ? Show me a country that does not have biolabs ....



Illegal biological weapons labs.

Big difference.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501641271194050561


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501565371580657665

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501641683108347911


----------



## Madni Bappa

F-22Raptor said:


> US Sec of


The guy paying your salary?

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501508166802190336

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Foinikas

thetutle said:


> Hes a slavic Macedonian. They get very sensitive about their country's name. People call them FYROM-ians. It upsets them. I dont see the big deal. We call Bosnia Herzegovina "BH". its just easier and quicker.


@Meengla It's a very big deal for us in Greece as well. Especially in northern Greece. We call them Skopjans. We mostly call their country Skopje because I its capital.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501600810903425025

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501637668978974727


----------



## Foinikas

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501496001814839297


Freedom of speech! Unlike evil dictator Putin! 😋

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501560387556233217


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501562420334112779

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> I don't think the US has anything to say in it.. The Ukrainians will not accept giving away over 50% of their territories including being demilitarized by Russia.. Including recognizing Crimea and DPR and LPR..
> 
> The offer was given to them so that they don't accept it and it was on purpose and Ukraine won't accept anything short of Russia withdrawing




I think the Ukrainians would recognize LPR and DNR since the inhabitants in theses region are Russians. However, Crimea has Tatar population who want to be with Ukraine than Russia. So it doubtful at this point Zelensky would signoff that region.

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## thetutle

Foinikas said:


> @Meengla It's a very big deal for us in Greece as well. Especially in northern Greece. We call them Skopjans. We mostly call their country Skopje because I its capital.


I dont see the problem if they want to call themselves after your greek historical region. I mean its obviously a greek historical name, us slavs came only 1000 years ago at the most. but why dont you take it as a compliment and move on?

Also how do greeks view this in Ukraine? who does the majority support?


----------



## Orange

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501647032175538180

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501645648994738182

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501563245085315072


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501644239641493511
This country seems completely mobilized to fight the war. It is not just Ukrainian armed forces that the Russians are fighting, but the broad civil society itself. It is for this reason more than anything else, I doubt Russia could have a political victory at the end. Considering that wars are fought for political objectives, I'm sure Putin must be worried.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501612535560220684

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## F-22Raptor

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501644239641493511
> This country seems completely mobilized to fight the war. It is not just Ukrainian armed forces that the Russians are fighting, but the broad civil society itself. It is for this reason more than anything else, I doubt Russia could have a political victory at the end. Considering that wars are fought for political objectives, I'm sure Putin must be worried.




This is becoming a vast strategic defeat for Putin and Russia. There's almost no upside here for Putin anymore.

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## Orange

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501650341347176451

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## RescueRanger

Slightly unrelated - but the EU will vote on economic sanctions on Poland:





__





European Parliament Multimedia Centre


European Parliament Multimedia Centre




multimedia.europarl.europa.eu

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## thetutle

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501563245085315072


Did you know that Oliver stone is is is fake name. his real surname is Silverstein, and he bows at the temple of Israel. He is very loyal and patriotic jewish man and you really take his documentary as a source of information?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501648932824301570

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501653057825824777

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## Orange

I pray for sence to Prevail. The comedian is turning it's Country in to Syria on behest of his masters: 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501653976160342020

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## thetutle




----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501565371580657665


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501654814429749249

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## lightning F57

Do the Russians not have decent jamming equipment to stop manpads/anti tank weapons


----------



## Madni Bappa

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501496001814839297


McCarthy-ism

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## Mujahid Memon

RescueRanger said:


> Slightly unrelated - but the EU will vote on economic sanctions on Poland:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> European Parliament Multimedia Centre
> 
> 
> European Parliament Multimedia Centre
> 
> 
> 
> 
> multimedia.europarl.europa.eu


Why?

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## coffee_cup

RescueRanger said:


> Slightly unrelated - but the EU will vote on economic sanctions on Poland:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> European Parliament Multimedia Centre
> 
> 
> European Parliament Multimedia Centre
> 
> 
> 
> 
> multimedia.europarl.europa.eu



Economic sanctions on Poland?

What for?

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## 8888888888888

jhungary said:


> Again, that's what Hitler said in his bunker in that April.
> 
> 
> well, in all seriousness, do you think Russia have any chances against China? You can develop anything you like but you probably can never compete with China and their manufacturing capability, and you eventually would turn to China for everything you need. Pretty much it is what the world has been doing in the last 30 years..
> 
> 
> Well, not being a Russian myself, I don't know.
> 
> But what I do know is Russia is heading to the territories of North Korean level of economy, would the Russian mind? Ask them.....


You are weird if you think the Russians are losing like hitler, no explanation at all and just claim that. Probably using western tactics and say Russia will lose. It’s Ukraine that is like hitler in his bunker in 1945,

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## Madni Bappa

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501565371580657665


If Ottoman Sultan gave aid to other European countries maybe they would have spoken truth like this. My grandad used to say halal k lume ki barakat bohat door tak jati hain. Maybe the halal lukma Ottoman sultan gave to Ireland is reaping good results lol

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## RescueRanger

Mujahid Memon said:


> Why?





coffee_cup said:


> Economic sanctions on Poland?
> 
> What for?



Due to Poland breaching EU law on independent judiciary - It's stems from the Polish constitutional crisis from way before the war where the legislature and executive of the Polish government has taken de facto control over judges and their appointments _*threatening the separation of powers and thus democracy.*_

There’s that word again_* *_


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501658405416624133

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## RescueRanger

Meme time:

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## 8888888888888

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Ukraine is suggesting the Syrian stalemate model with the exact same 3 state actors playing the guaraantors.. The same treepeat..
> 
> This was suggested by Zelenskyy himself as NATO membership won't be possible for the next 15 years hence bringing in the same Syrian actors that has agreed on 3 part partition. Namely America, Turkey and Russia. I assume Russia will hold onto the eastern parts from Odessa to Luhansk main while US and Turkish armed forces joint will ethablish a secure state for the Ukrainians on the western side of Ukraine and there shall be no doubt of another russian invasion this time they are under guraantee.
> 
> But this will not be 3 part partition but rather 2 part partition. A Russian zone and Turkish-American Zone. All 3 work as guraantors basically.
> 
> Alternative to NATO proposed by Zelensky's party​The Servant of the People Party is proposing to sign a new security agreement for Ukraine with the United States, Turkey and Russia instead of NATO membership.​
> With ongoing negotiations between Ukraine and Russia, Zelensky's Servant of the People Party has proposed a new security agreement as an alternative to the country joining NATO. The party believes that in such an agreement, the guarantors may be the United States, Turkey, and neighboring countries – even including Russia.
> 
> 
> By signing such an agreement, Russia will allegedly have legal obligations to recognize Ukrainian statehood and refrain from threatening the Ukrainian people and government.
> 
> 
> The party acknowledges that such an agreement may seem absurd given the current situation, but insists that the new treaty will set out specific steps taken by other guarantor states against the violating party.
> 
> 
> 
> "The alliance is not ready to accept Ukraine for at least the next 15 years, and it clearly says so. We do not even have support in a completely just war from the alliance - only from individual states." A party spokesperson said.
> 
> 
> "As it is impossible to join NATO in the coming years, we cannot use only the lines of the Constitution [expressing our desire to join NATO on our] course to the alliance, to defend our country," he said. "The course is politics – but not weapons, not planes, not state protection."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In addition, the party gave assurance that in no case will Ukraine cede its claim to Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk nor agree to any ultimatums on its sovereignty and territorial integrity.
> 
> 
> "We hear Russia's demand to recognize the so-called "DNR" and "LNR", [Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics, and] to recognize the occupation of Crimea." The party claimed. "It is clear that we will not do that. But we need to decide how the lives of people in these territories will be regulated within our integral state."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alternative to NATO proposed by Zelensky's party
> 
> 
> The Servant of the People Party is proposing to sign a new security agreement for Ukraine with the United States, Turkey and Russia instead of NATO membership.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com


He is just asking Putin to take over the whole of Ukraine,

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## RescueRanger

Orange said:


> I pray for sence to Prevails. The comedian is turning it's Country in to Syria on behest of his masters:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501653976160342020


This is very dangerous - I fully understand that Ukraine is fighting a war for its survival - but this turns citizens into targets.

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## bobo6661

Mujahid Memon said:


> Why?


It's about courts this thing is dragging for like 6 years now .









EU wants daily fines for Poland over its contentious judiciary reforms


The European Commission has asked for daily penalties to be imposed on Poland until the country agrees to change its controversial disciplinary chamber of judges. #EuropeNews




www.euronews.com


----------



## 8888888888888

Zibago said:


> Did they? I mean a lot of territory and 500000 dead later the country still is divided


ISIS is pretty much dead and the Kurds hate turkey and don’t mind being autonomous so they don’t mind letting them have that area.

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## Madni Bappa

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501600810903425025


The Palestinians are fkin angry bro. Your post is so tone deaf.


----------



## Foinikas

thetutle said:


> I dont see the problem if they want to call themselves after your greek historical region. I mean its obviously a greek historical name, us slavs came only 1000 years ago at the most. but why dont you take it as a compliment and move on?
> 
> Also how do greeks view this in Ukraine? who does the majority support



Well the problem is that they don't only claim the name,but everything that comes with the name. They claim the history,the heroes,the lands. They claim that Macedonians were never greek,that Solun(Thessaloniki) is their capital,they print maps of "Greater Macedonia" etc.

You probably know it,but they've erected statues of Alexander the Great,Phillip, Aristotle,Tsar Samuil,other Byzantine and Bulgarian emperors and heroes. 

Their language is called "Makedonski" but it's actually a Serbo-Bulgarian dialect,as you know. The last 10-15 years the started making even more ridiculous claims,like they appeared before other humans,that their alphabet can be found in ancient monuments,so it was Greek that was influenced by them and many other stuff.
You should check on YouTube "10 ridiculous claims by FYROM" or I could give you some nice links.

As for Ukraine,the government in Greece and the majority of the TV channels are pro-Ukrainian,but a lot of the people are pro-Russian. There's a big greek community in Ukraine and a lot of Ukrainians in Greece,but I think the majority of the people here think we should have stayed neutral and not send help to Ukraine and that also it's NATO's fault for expanding and making Russia angry. A lot are also talking about the neo-nazis in the Ukrainian army.

The Russians are very displeased with our government's stance towards them right now. And the government keeps talking about invasion,democracy,evil dictator and NATO and EU values of freedom...

The news keep talking about brave Ukrainians who resist the invasion and show women and kids crying all day.

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## Indian Libertarian

8888888888888 said:


> He is just asking Putin to take over the whole of Ukraine,


Those idiots really can’t learn. This conflict was clearly provoked by their stupidity in violating Russia’s red lines. If they keep moving in the same direction Russia will just double down on the attacks. Ukraine wouldn’t be in this mess if it had accepted neutrality to be a buffer state. Atleast then they could’ve ripped off both Russia and the West to enrich their corrupt elite.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501659933162586117

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## coffee_cup

RescueRanger said:


> Due to Poland breaching EU law on independent judiciary - It's stems from the Polish constitutional crisis from way before the war where the legislature and executive of the Polish government has taken de facto control over judges and their appointments _*threatening the separation of powers and thus democracy.*_
> 
> There’s that word again_**_



God, I have started to DESPISE this word!

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## beast89

Madni Bappa said:


> The Palestinians are fkin angry bro. Your post is so tone deaf.







Bet zelensky feels like a palestinian now

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501652226330316802

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501652227605372940

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501652228825927680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501652229996138501

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501652231082369024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501652232101584896
https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/1501652233175326722?s=20&t=1lTJFf1nbHZqXMbNz7DUOw

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## Orange

RescueRanger said:


> This is very dangerous - I fully understand that Ukraine is fighting a war for its survival - but this turns citizens into targets.



💯. Russian will kill them with impunity. I think Zelensky is surrounded by Dolts. With each step of his, he's taking his country on a Point of no return.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501652234198818816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501652235473854471

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501652236488916996

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## RescueRanger

The war in Ukraine has rattled many nations who had quietly and deathly been reducing their military spending and size. The UK is no exception- a nation with tremendous global reach and influence has a standing army of *73,000 *soldiers. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501662555944669189

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## Foinikas

RescueRanger said:


> This is very dangerous - I fully understand that Ukraine is fighting a war for its survival - but this turns citizens into targets.


They give weapons to civilians. Civilians shoot at the Russians,the Russians kill them. Zelensky will say "Oh look,the Russians are killing civilians. Putin kills people just like that!"

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## Orange

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501663359162146817

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501652234198818816
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501652235473854471
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501652236488916996


The part about cloudy skies necessitating the fixed wing aircrafts to fly lower was interesting. I was also wondering how Stingers were effective against high flying aircrafts especially since Ukraine is not particularly mountainous like Afghanistan. 

This charm may not last forever though.


----------



## Madni Bappa

Orange said:


> I pray for sence to Prevail. The comedian is turning it's Country in to Syria on behest of his masters:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501653976160342020


Zelensky and his masters literally bringing terrorists from Syria to fight man. Totally insane.

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## Wood

RescueRanger said:


> The war in Ukraine has rattled many nations who had quietly and deathly been reducing their military spending and size. The UK is no exception- a nation with tremendous global reach and influence has a standing army of *73,000 *soldiers.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501662555944669189


That is nothing. What a surprise! Maybe they have a bigger navy ?


----------



## Indian Libertarian

Foinikas said:


> They give weapons to civilians. Civilians shoot at the Russians,the Russians kill them. Zelensky will say "Oh look,the Russians are killing civilians. Putin kills people just like that!"


Is that what the school & hospital bombing news was about?


----------



## RescueRanger

Foinikas said:


> They give weapons to civilians. Civilians shoot at the Russians,the Russians kill them. Zelensky will say "Oh look,the Russians are killing civilians. Putin kills people just like that!"


I’ve read on Twitter that the Ukrainian losses are 6:1 which is seriously troubling. 

Now add to that the destruction of historic downs and critical infrastructure worth billions and the countless civilian casualties running into the hundreds with 2.1 million people displaced - sanity must prevail and both parties have to sit at the negotiating table.

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## Madni Bappa

RescueRanger said:


> Due to Poland breaching EU law on independent judiciary - It's stems from the Polish constitutional crisis from way before the war where the legislature and executive of the Polish government has taken de facto control over judges and their appointments _*threatening the separation of powers and thus democracy.*_
> 
> There’s that word again_**_


Why now? I think Poland didn't bow as exactly as US wanted that's why.


----------



## RescueRanger

Wood said:


> That is nothing. What a surprise! Maybe they have a bigger navy ?


The Royal Navy is no longer the Armada it once was and it is a surprise considering that just 5 years ago their standing army was 130,000.



Madni Bappa said:


> Why now? I think Poland didn't bow as exactly as US wanted that's why.


Yes that’s what I’m guessing too. People don’t do what you say- hit them with sanctions.

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## thetutle

Foinikas said:


> You probably know it,but they've erected statues of Alexander the Great,Phillip, Aristotle,Tsar Samuil,other Byzantine and Bulgarian emperors and heroes.
> 
> Their language is called "Makedonski" but it's actually a Serbo-Bulgarian dialect,as you know. The last 10-15 years the started making even more ridiculous claims,like they appeared before other humans,that their alphabet can be found in ancient monuments,so it was Greek that was influenced by them and many other stuff.
> You should check on YouTube "10 ridiculous claims by FYROM" or I could give you some nice links.


heheheh, amazing. I've heard about the statues. as for other things, it sounds like a joke. probably a publicity stunt. I'm sure noone believes that stuff, and even if they do so what? there is 1.5 milion of them. Greece is 10 million and in NATO. Why would you worry about stuff like that?


Foinikas said:


> As for Ukraine,the government in Greece and the majority of the TV channels are pro-Ukrainian,but a lot of the people are pro-Russian. There's a big greek community in Ukraine and a lot of Ukrainians in Greece,but I think the majority of the people here think we should have stayed neutral and not send help to Ukraine and that also it's NATO's fault for expanding and making Russia angry. A lot are also talking about the neo-nazis in the Ukrainian army.


Good. Stay neutral but be a part of a military alliance? hmmm interesting 


Foinikas said:


> The Russians are very displeased with our government's stance towards them right now. And the government keeps talking about invasion,democracy,evil dictator and NATO and EU values of freedom...


good. if the people dont like government action they can vote for a new one and leave NATO. just to see how that goes. and compare. Thats the good thing about democracy. (isn't democracy invented in Skopje?) something Russians can only wish for. 


Foinikas said:


> The news keep talking about brave Ukrainians who resist the invasion and show women and kids crying all day.


good.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501549605066059778

Russian looters get kicked out

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501623779751075846

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## Indian Libertarian

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501631349580521487


I’m confused, someone else posted this as being a Ukrainian convoy…


----------



## Orange

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501664732587114504

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## Wood

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501623779751075846


I fail to see the political risk for an autocratic despot


----------



## oberschlesier

Madni Bappa said:


> Why now? I think Poland didn't bow as exactly as US wanted that's why.


These are not sanctions, but fines for not implementing EU law. Nothing to do with the US.


----------



## Madni Bappa

American stooges playing from Modi G's playbook

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## RescueRanger

Madni Bappa said:


> Why now? I think Poland didn't bow as exactly as US wanted that's why.


Yes that’s what I’m guessing too. People don’t do what you say- hit them with sanctions.


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501549605066059778
> 
> Russian looters get kicked out


hahaha bizarre 😂


----------



## Orange

Good decision 👏:



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501665841628463106

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501347099748802568

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## Foinikas

Indian Libertarian said:


> Is that what the school & hospital bombing news was about?


I don't know,but I've seen Ukrainians fielding artillery in residential areas. Supposedly a kindergarten or school.

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## RescueRanger

Wood said:


> I fail to see the political risk for an autocratic despot


He’s just talking out of his hat. Putin says jump - they ask “how high.”.

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## bobo6661

Madni Bappa said:


> Why now? I think Poland didn't bow as exactly as US wanted that's why.


Ehhh this does not have anything to do with US(you guys look like paranoics see murica every where you move) ... It's just an unconstitutional move of our government made, (that's what oposition says) before they changed the Constitutional Court for their own people so they will not veto this idea. And when EU said hey what are you doing? Morons went to TSUE and it backfired on them and now its dragging.


----------



## Paul2

Orange said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501663359162146817



Ukraine don't have 9k33M3, only 9k33M2 according to wikipedia


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501666554613800964

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501667458842828804


----------



## Primus

Indian Libertarian said:


> I’m confused, someone else posted this as being a Ukrainian convoy…


T72 is definitely Russian. 

9k33 osa and the rest im not too sure of. Lack of markings on the SAM system would idicate its UKR


----------



## Madni Bappa

oberschlesier said:


> Nothing to do with the US


Yes offcourse. I totally believe you.

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501347099748802568


The UK tax payer should be thanked. Not the monarch.

It is surprising that these ATGMs could do so much damage to the tank. The damaged tank looks like it was gutted and abandoned some 50 years ago


----------



## CrazyZ

Sounds like the Ukrainians are trying to find and end to war by offering concessions to the Russians. Zelensky is offering the Russians items he could have offered before the war. West wants to show him as a hero, but from a neutral perspective he was an idiot.

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## Madni Bappa

Orange said:


> Good decision 👏:
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501665841628463106


Iss ko kehte hain phat kar hath mein a jana
😂😂


----------



## F-22Raptor

Seeing several reports that Russian soldiers are getting slaughtered to the northwest of Kiev and they have little will to fight and push forward.

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## Orange

Paul2 said:


> Ukraine don't have 9k33M3, only 9k33M2 according to wikipedia



They do. I'd post a link in few moments & Tag you.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501574367578316803


----------



## CrazyZ

F-22Raptor said:


> Seeing several reports that Russian soldiers are getting slaughtered to the northwest of Kiev and they have little will to fight and push forward.


In the end all that matters is the strategic outcome. A few thousand soldiers dead and a few hundred vehicles destroyed is not significant to the Russians. The Ukrainians are suffering far worse then the Russians. They will be forced to settle in the next few days or weeks,IMO.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501629076859199495


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## Foinikas

thetutle said:


> there is 1.5 milion of them. Greece is 10 million and in NATO. Why would you worry about stuff like that?


No we don't worry about them militarily. They even have problems with the Albanians in their country,you know it. 
The problem is that they do propaganda worldwide claiming Greek history,names and historical figures and millions of people around the world that have no idea about Macedonia,believe them.

Even the Bulgarians are angry,because they claim Bulgarian history now too. 

Some hilarious videos for you:
























thetutle said:


> Good. Stay neutral but be a part of a military alliance? hmmm interesting


We used to be neutral between the Americans and Russia all these years. But now the government wants to get influence with NATO and the EU.




thetutle said:


> d. if the people dont like government action they can vote for a new one and leave NATO. just to see how that goes. and compare.


The problem is...if we leave NATO,Turkey is waiting for us. Plus the Americans and the Western Europeans wouldn't just let us leave NATO like that. The Communists and all kinds of leftists have been nagging about Greece leaving NATO for decades.

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## gambit

CrazyZ said:


> Sounds like the Ukrainians are trying to find and end to war by offering concessions to the Russians. Zelensky is offering the Russians items he could have offered before the war. West wants to show him as a hero, but from a neutral perspective he was an idiot.


What if Poutine refuse the offer?

If NATO membership was truly the only assurance Poutine wanted, that mean a declaration of neutrality would immediately compel Russia to lose, right? But what if Poutine refuse?

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## kingQamaR

Indian Libertarian said:


> Those idiots really can’t learn. This conflict was clearly provoked by their stupidity in violating Russia’s red lines. If they keep moving in the same direction Russia will just double down on the attacks. Ukraine wouldn’t be in this mess if it had accepted neutrality to be a buffer state. Atleast then they could’ve ripped off both Russia and the West to enrich their corrupt elite.



Russia demanding Ukraine ceases its military action??? It's Russia's military action that caused Ukraine's military re-action, so it should be Russia that stops killing innocent men, women and children, and withdraw its forces from Ukraine before there's any consideration of peace. Hardly logical a weaker state like Ukraine is going to start a war with Russia when nato membership has been declined to them. How is Ukraine a buffer zone to west when Russia borders nato Baltic’s states , fck sake I got in trouble last week with a mod I’m going to quit now

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## F-22Raptor

CrazyZ said:


> In the end all that matters is the strategic outcome. A few thousand soldiers dead and a few hundred vehicles destroyed is not significant to the Russians. The Ukrainians are suffering far worse then the Russians. They will be forced to settle in the next few days or weeks.




Strategically Russia is already defeated, with almost no upside for Putin. Destroyed Ukrainian cities is not a victory for Putin. The Russian military has been humiliated, the Russian economy is cratering, and Russia is being treated as a pariah state by the international community.

Russia has already lost.

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## CrazyZ

In the end war is about getting a political settlement in your favor. Russia can still get this in Ukraine. Russia has suffered economic consequences. But, based on history they will probably overcome this in time, especially if oil is over $100 a barrel. They cannot be completely isolated as long as they have hard assets to trade.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501670648606777345


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501469696150880256


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501673683940786179


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## retaxis

Russia has now surrounded all major cities and is giving Ukraine time to surrender. Otherwise Russian artillery will turn them to ashes like in Syria or Chechnya. Russian patience is not forever tho, if no quick surrender, Russia will level the city, take it forever. Game over.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501595992126279684

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501482591618318336

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## F-22Raptor

retaxis said:


> Russia has now surrounded all major cities and is giving Ukraine time to surrender. Otherwise Russian artillery will turn them to ashes like in Syria or Chechnya. Russian patience is not forever tho, if no quick surrender, Russia will level the city, take it forever. Game over.




Russia has not surrounded all major cities. Thats 100% false.

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## Paul2

These 7 reserve BTGs which bypassed Kharkiv I wrote about few days ago are heading do Kiyv.

My guess they will want to add a new axis of attack on Kiyv, so their stalled forces northeast of Kiyv can properly regroup, and advance.

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## retaxis

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia has not surrounded all major cities. Thats 100% false.


60miles of military vehicles parked around kyiv says different. You will see in following days that if Ukraine does not behave, Russia will level all major cities

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## Foinikas

F-22Raptor said:


> Strategically Russia is already defeated, with almost no upside for Putin. Destroyed Ukrainian cities is not a victory for Putin. The Russian military has been humiliated, the Russian economy is cratering, and Russia is being treated as a pariah state by the international community.
> 
> Russia has already lost.


I'm not saying they are winning,but they haven't lost either. The war is not over yet. Remember when the Germans went in the Soviet Union in 1941 and the Red Army was had almost collapsed? They seemed incapable of winning. But in the end,they turned the tide. Who knows? Maybe they will change their strategy. Bring more forces. Maybe the Chinese will help them.

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## oberschlesier

retaxis said:


> 60miles of military vehicles parked around kyiv says different. You will see in following days that if Ukraine does not behave, Russia will level all major cities


And what then ? Level minor cities?


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501677980887752706

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

8888888888888 said:


> He is just asking Putin to take over the whole of Ukraine,


Putin will attempt to grab as much as we can but he will want at some point to stop it hence such a guraantee will also suit his interests. He will release the portions he has no desire of and by this guraantee type of things he can secure a big portion of Ukraine under the disquises of deconfliction hence this plays also into his hands but it also will mean he will not have other opportunity to attack them again in the future in that portion hence he has to make his mind up clearly which portions and grab them


8888888888888 said:


> ISIS is pretty much dead and the Kurds hate turkey and don’t mind being autonomous so they don’t mind letting them have that area.


The SDF are American protectorate hence it is the Americans who hold these territories not the kurds as they are an American protectorate partitioned part of the country and an American influence zone and partially Russian army police peacekeepers only in the north. But the territories are American held portion of Syria. That is ground reality hence there is no such thing as claiming Autonomous etc etc. They are already a defacto country.. The Americans don't view Assad more then a warlord hence why they took whatever they wanted and they wouldn't recognize him meaning all this Autonomous stuff is just a pipe-dream and the same with the Turks they don't even talk to him only to the Russians. Hence it is 3 defacto states ruled independently from each other and hack there is not even same currency used in North Syria and the rest of the country.

The SDF held areas and TFSA held areas are surprisingly doing better economically currently as the SDF held areas have oil and American dollar assistance while the other one has connected to the turkish economy with alot of agri lands meaning they transport food now main while in the Assad held areas immegration is increasing and the only way out including severe sanctions.

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## thetutle

Foinikas said:


> The problem is...if we leave NATO,Turkey is waiting for us. Plus the Americans and the Western Europeans wouldn't just let us leave NATO like that. The Communists and all kinds of leftists have been nagging about Greece leaving NATO for decades.


you are NATO hostages. Good. We cant have all those ports going to the new Russian empire. 


Foinikas said:


> We used to be neutral between the Americans and Russia all these years. But now the government wants to get influence with NATO and the EU.


Neutral days are over as you can see. This will not end in 10 years at least. more like 20 or 30. 


Foinikas said:


> Even the Bulgarians are angry,because they claim Bulgarian history now too.
> 
> Some hilarious videos for you:


Their language is definitely an offshoot of Bulgarian and we would barely be able to converse with them. You could if they speak slowly. but that geographical area down there is definitely hellenic. and our area up north belonged to the Illirians and Romans. and since we arrived 800 to 1,000 years ago it has been ours. But us and Serbs dont argue about who was there before the slavs arrived. We clearly took it from someone. And now we will fight over it. But we all like the slavic Macedonians, they dont bother any of us or have any quarrel with us.

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## retaxis

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia has not surrounded all major cities. Thats 100% false.


60miles of military vehicles parked around kyiv says different. You will see in following days that if Ukraine does not behave, Russia will level all major cities


oberschlesier said:


> And what then ? Level minor cities?


cities are the crown jewels. Ukraine two biggest cities are surrounded and about to be leveled and then taken over by Russians. Russia has just been negotiating to see what happens but any time Putin can give the order to level the cities like aleppo or grozny and take it.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501671703298121729

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## kingQamaR

retaxis said:


> 60miles of military vehicles parked around kyiv says different. You will see in following days that if Ukraine does not behave, Russia will level all major cities



Keep waiting. Your original 2 day invasion of Ukraine war, is now looking like a disaster for Russia on everything

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501671747841576976


----------



## Orange

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501679661058859009

Reactions: Love Love:
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## oberschlesier

retaxis said:


> 60miles of military vehicles parked around kyiv says different. You will see in following days that if Ukraine does not behave, Russia will level all major cities
> 
> cities are the crown jewels. Ukraine two biggest cities are surrounded and about to be leveled and then taken over by Russians. Russia has just been negotiating to see what happens but any time Putin can give the order to level the cities like aleppo or grozny and take it.


And what then ? Install a puppet gov on the rubble ? What about the rest of ukraine ? Level it as well ? This will rather not break the ukraine nation, just increase the cost for Russia.


----------



## Foinikas

thetutle said:


> you are NATO hostages.


There's a lot of hostages in NATO,but neither Russia nor the Chinese have managed to create a strong alliance. Russians have Belarus,Chinese have North Korea.


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Alternative to NATO proposed by Zelensky's party​The Servant of the People Party is proposing to sign a new security agreement for Ukraine with the United States, Turkey and Russia instead of NATO membership.​



Russia's Lavrov arrives in Turkey for talks with Ukraine counterpart​Russia's foreign minister Sergei Lavrov arrived after a flight to Turkey's southern city of Antalya on Wednesday, according to a Reuters witness, ahead of planned talks Thursday with his Ukrainian counterpart Dmytro Kuleba.


The meeting would be the first between the nations' top diplomats since Russia invaded Ukraine two weeks ago.









Russia's Lavrov arrives in Turkey for talks with Ukraine counterpart


Russia's foreign minister Sergei Lavrov arrived after a flight to Turkey's southern city of Antalya on Wednesd




www.jpost.com

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## Orange

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501680989877194762

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## thetutle

Foinikas said:


> I'm not saying they are winning,but they haven't lost either. The war is not over yet. Remember when the Germans went in the Soviet Union in 1941 and the Red Army was had almost collapsed? They seemed incapable of winning. But in the end,they turned the tide. Who knows? Maybe they will change their strategy. Bring more forces. Maybe the Chinese will help them.


Whether Ukraine wins or loses doest make much of a difference. They will never totally lose because they have US and EU with them. in the end there will be CIA guys dressed and ukranians blowing stuff up. 

The important thing is that the structure of sanctions and isolation is in place against Russia and that only ends with Russian surrender to the the Anglo empire. be it in 10 or 50 years. Its up to them. 

In the meantime, the economic pressure stays, the military pressure stays and the espionage and special information warfare pressure stays. 

The writing is on the wall for the Russian regime. Notice they always call it "regime" now. They didnt 10 years ago. Now its always regime, Putin regime, Putins army. 

Yeah, it will be a long Cold War.

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## lightning F57

These foreign mercenaries going over from many European capitals going to create the European version of Al-Qaeda. Far right extreme, xenophobic groups with military experience, armoury and kills.

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## Wood

You know that Americans are united when Republicans have a jolly good time in MSNBC

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## F-22Raptor

thetutle said:


> Whether Ukraine wins or loses doest make much of a difference. They will never totally lose because they have US and EU with them. in the end there will be CIA guys dressed and ukranians blowing stuff up.
> 
> The important thing is that the structure of sanctions and isolation is in place against Russia and that only ends with Russian surrender to the the Anglo empire. be it in 10 or 50 years. Its up to them.
> 
> In the meantime, the economic pressure stays, the military pressure stays and the espionage and special information warfare pressure stays.
> 
> The writing is on the wall for the Russian regime. Notice they always call it "regime" now. They didnt 10 years ago. Now its always regime, Putin regime, Putins army.
> 
> Yeah, it will be a long Cold War.




They don’t get it. Russia has already lost strategically. Can anyone say Russias strategic position is better today than it was 2-3 weeks ago? Anyone that says yes is a clown.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

This is extremely unfair offer for Ukraine but I think the Russians would settle for something like this..

But US and Turkey has to deploy forces to the Ukraine post deal to make sure that there is no further attacks on that portion...

Russia gets Malorossiya and Novorossiya main while the Yellow goes to Ukraine again this is extremely unfair deal to the ukrainians but to salvage the government it is fair deal plus there comes an additional bonus Russia won't attack again

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## thetutle

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> This is extremely unfair offer for Ukraine but I think the Russians would settle for something like this..
> 
> But US and Turkey has to deploy forces to the Ukraine post deal to make sure that there is no further attacks on that portion...
> 
> Russia gets Malorossiya and Novorossiya main while the Yellow goes to Ukraine again this is extremely unfair deal to the ukrainians but to salvage the government it is fair deal plus there comes an additional bonus Russia won't attack again


Russia wont take this offer. They want the whole thing. that yellow bit Russia wants as a puppet state, the rest will be part of Russia. 

then Russia will make sure the yellow puppet state attacks ancient Russian lands of Poland or Slovakia or Romania. its not Russias fault. Its the yellow puppet states fault. Russia can come as peacekeeper to Poland and Romania. 

hhehehe thats their plan. it wont work.

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## dBSPL

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Russia's Lavrov arrives in Turkey for talks with Ukraine counterpart​Russia's foreign minister Sergei Lavrov arrived after a flight to Turkey's southern city of Antalya on Wednesday, according to a Reuters witness, ahead of planned talks Thursday with his Ukrainian counterpart Dmytro Kuleba.
> 
> 
> The meeting would be the first between the nations' top diplomats since Russia invaded Ukraine two weeks ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia's Lavrov arrives in Turkey for talks with Ukraine counterpart
> 
> 
> Russia's foreign minister Sergei Lavrov arrived after a flight to Turkey's southern city of Antalya on Wednesd
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com


It is very difficult to come up with a permanent solution at the moment. There are so many issues to deal with. However, if a ceasefire plan can be established and a permanent dialogue channel can be created, the Antalya summit may be the most successful diplomatic initiative of recent times. In order to reduce the military tension, if the parties consent, the TAF can actively support the peace efforts.

Lavrov and Çavuşoğlu are close friends. Also, the first country that Ukraine proposed for mediatiator is Turkey. If the two countries prefer the way of negotiation instead of fighting and we host it; We will honored from that as friend of both countries.

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## thetutle

Foinikas said:


> There's a lot of hostages in NATO,but neither Russia nor the Chinese have managed to create a strong alliance. Russians have Belarus,Chinese have North Korea.


You cant possibly believe Greece will be better off under Putin?

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## Baghial

Foinikas said:


> I'm not saying they are winning,but they haven't lost either. The war is not over yet. Remember when the Germans went in the Soviet Union in 1941 and the Red Army was had almost collapsed? They seemed incapable of winning. But in the end,they turned the tide. Who knows? Maybe they will change their strategy. Bring more forces. Maybe the Chinese will help them.





Russia thinks it’s fighting Ukraine whereas they’re actually fighting their own corruption


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

thetutle said:


> Russia wont take this offer. They want the whole thing. that yellow bit Russia wants as a puppet state, the rest will be part of Russia.
> 
> then Russia will make sure the yellow puppet state attacks ancient Russian lands of Poland or Slovakia or Romania. its not Russias fault. Its the yellow puppet states fault. Russia can come as peacekeeper to Poland and Romania.
> 
> hhehehe thats their plan. it wont work.



I don't think even Ukraine will accept this deal in a million years if you were to offer them and besides nobody has offered this deal to Ukraine but it was just me But to think Russia itself would deny it means we got a problem here


----------



## RescueRanger

The EU have finally become that which they profess to hate most:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501670379898630146

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## thetutle

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> But to think Russia itself would deny it means we got a problem here


Oh we got a problem here. oh yeah!


----------



## Foinikas

thetutle said:


> You cant possibly believe Greece will be better off under Putin?


No,no. Look at their economy.


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

dBSPL said:


> It is very difficult to come up with a permanent solution at the moment. There are so many issues to deal with. However, if a ceasefire plan can be established and a permanent dialogue channel can be created, the Antalya summit may be the most successful diplomatic initiative of recent times. In order to reduce the military tension, if the parties consent, the TAF can actively support the peace efforts.
> 
> Lavrov and Çavuşoğlu are close friends. Also, the first country that Ukraine proposed for mediatiator is Turkey. If the two countries prefer the way of negotiation instead of fighting and we host it; We will honored from that as friend of both countries.



I think the Russians will only begin serious negotiation once they feel like they have made all the necessary gains they seek. Which is ofcourse 100% Novorossiya not sure if they wanna add Malorossiya because honestly I don't think they care about that.

Once they have achieved Novorossiya they won't mind guraantors to come in between their newly created nations out of Ukraine and the remaining entity of Ukraine that they have no desire of..

Hence I believe Russia has not meet it's objectives yet and once you see Odessa, Kharkiv, Mariupol start falling including Dnipro that is when they have reached their objectives and I think Kiev is just a faint attack to draw away forces from the critical parts they seek

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## Indian Libertarian

Wood said:


> You know that Americans are united when Republicans have a jolly good time in MSNBC


Their differences have always been a facade. Both parties have growing their pockets as the only objective. Both of them support war, only difference is that one holds the gay flag

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501642647173218315

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## RescueRanger

U.S. threatens to 'shut down' Chinese chipmakers if they violate Russian sanctions​U.S. Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo warned Chinese chip manufacturers such as SMIC could face consequences for violating a ban on exporting semiconductors to Russia.​








US threatens to 'shut down' Chinese chipmakers if they violate Russian sanctions


U.S. Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo warned Chinese chip manufacturers such as SMIC could face consequences for violating a ban on exporting semiconductors to Russia.



www.protocol.com

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501683517977202689


----------



## Baghial

Another update on the 40-mile column of Russian doom that was descending on Kyiv a week ago. It hasnt moved. In that space of time according to google maps I could have driven to Kyiv and back from Scotland.

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## pkuser2k12



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## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501642647173218315


I can’t believe this is true but one bit did make me laugh out loud:


“There’s no more Coca Cola?”
“**^# Mut*^%#ers” 😂







pkuser2k12 said:


> View attachment 822473



I read the times of Israel article it’s just one former solider who’s actually in Ukraine right now.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501688135960379395

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501687031595945989

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501685276376186882

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501689325020397569

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501692090316644352

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501679182119682048


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501691690121416710


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

pkuser2k12 said:


> View attachment 822473



I Fail to understad how this is relevant to this thread tho? @The Eagle @waz

Don't spam with off-topics this is stricly Ukraine-Russia thread... This is spam according to thread rules

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## RescueRanger

Another bizarre video of the Putler a youth:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501676038090379267


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501691366304325635
Ukrainian forces making gains in Kiev and Kharkiv

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501693419974008844


----------



## Baghial

The video here shows about ~eight VDV airborne infantry combat vehicles abandoned in a field with the missiles still in the launchers. A understrength VDV company abandoned their gear intact & went walk-about?!? What the h--l, over?


GENERAL MUDD? OR COMMANDER IN THIEF?


https://****/dvish_alive/9242


Baghial said:


> The video here shows about ~eight VDV airborne infantry combat vehicles abandoned in a field with the missiles still in the launchers. A understrength VDV company abandoned their gear intact & went walk-about?!? What the h--l, over?
> 
> 
> GENERAL MUDD? OR COMMANDER IN THIEF?
> 
> 
> https://****/dvish_alive/9242




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500515962919006208


----------



## Wood

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501688135960379395
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501687031595945989
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501685276376186882
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501689325020397569
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501692090316644352


Kamil threads are awesome read. He mixes humor and has reasoning that makes sense. Very entertaining 🙂

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## The Eagle

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> I Fail to understad how this is relevant to this thread tho? @The Eagle @waz
> 
> Don't spam with off-topics this is stricly Ukraine-Russia thread... This is spam according to thread rules



Did you read both tweets?

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501571907296104456


----------



## Baghial

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499481208849317889
HERE GOES ANOTHER ONE..

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## Wergeland 2.0

Sanctions work sometimes and sometimes not. Has sanctions worked against North Korea? No. Worked against Serbia? Yes.

Problem with EU-US sanctions on such a massive scale is that its beyond the treshold of having a coercive effect.

Russia now is in a existential mode. What does it has to loose? Nothing. It has everything to win by keeping this war going. As Putin said, Russia will be sanctioned anyway so he dosent care anymore.

Btw, somebody here mentioned Ukraine as a potential Afghanistan replay for Russia. Well it could be.

OTOH this could also be in Russian favour. First of all Ukraine has totally different geography compared to Afg., as Ukraine has few mountains and a terrain thats familiar and similiar to the Russian homeland. Its the birthplace of Kievan Rus after all.

To me this war is akin to American Civil War. Essentially a intra civilization war. While the southern states were mostly blocked from recieving foreign aid (vast oceans), Ukraine is a different story. Thats why this conflict is so complex and potentially unpredictable. Russia could use armed irregular volunteers or similar forces to actually increase its influence, first in Ukraine, then in forexample Poland.

What happens if a fighting between irregular forces takes place along the NATO border and it slowly intensified and spread to Poland, Baltic, Romania etc.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Kharkiv under severe bombardment tonight 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501695422338945027

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501667813240549379

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## pkuser2k12



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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> Sanctions work sometimes and sometimes not. Has sanctions worked against North Korea? No. Worked against Serbia? Yes.
> 
> Problem with EU-US sanctions on such a massive scale is that its beyond the treshold of having a coercive effect.
> 
> Russia now is in a existential mode. What does it has to loose? Nothing. It has everything to win by keeping this war going. As Putin said, Russia will be sanctioned anyway so he dosent care anymore.
> 
> Btw, somebody here mentioned Ukraine as a potential Afghanistan replay for Russia. Well it could be.
> 
> OTOH this could also be in Russian favour. First of all Ukraine has totally different geography, few mountains and a terrain thats familiar to the Russian homeland. Its the birthplace of Kievan Rus after all.
> 
> To me this war is akin to American Civil War. Essentially a intra cuvilization war. While the southern states were mostly blocked from recieving foreign aid (vast oceans), Ukraine is a different story. Thats why this conflict is so complex and potentially unpredictable. Russi could use armed irregular volunteers or similar forces to actually increase its influence, first in Ukrsine, then in forexample Poland.
> 
> What happens if a fighting between irregular forces takes place along the NATO border and it slowly intensified and spread to Poland, Baltic, Romani etc.



Yes Sanctions work sometimes but not against proud countries and especially not Russia.

Now that being said Could Ukraine become another Afghanistan for Russia? To early to say that but if we go by topography I would say no. The best element they have is Urban fighting which Russia can negate by levelling cities.

Another thing to keep in mind is that this is relatively a new war and only 2 weeks old and we don't know yet how well Ukraine will react to the grind that will be telling of this conflict. The Longevity and patience of the Ukrainians which we don't know anything about yet but will have to find out about as this war continues.. 

Khalid banu Walid famously once said ''God was testing our resolve and patience with the grind but now is the time to strike''


----------



## jamal18

George Galloway/Scott Ritter. A belief that if the Ukraine doesn't accede to Russia's demand tomorrow's meeting in Turkey, the Russians will change their 'softly softly' tactics and use far greater firepower.

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## Baghial

$$$$$$$$$$ STUCK IN MUDD.

the trucks use “Chinese military tires, and I believe specifically the Yellow Sea YS20.”

“This is a tire I first encountered in Somalia and Sudan. it’s a bad Chinese copy of the excellent Michelin XZL military tire design,


I have lots of skepticism about reports claiming to explain Russia's poor military performance. But it makes me smile to think it's because they bought cheap tires from China. How cheap Chinese tires might explain Russia's 'stalled' 40-mile-long convoy

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501700101584134144


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## Wood

EU has set itself a target to reduce 2/3 dependence on Russian gas by the end of this year

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## retaxis

oberschlesier said:


> And what then ? Level minor cities?


Use kyiv as bargaining chip to take over Eastern Russian dominated Ukraine. Russia will take everything East of Dneiper and give back Kyiv. Thats the logical deal.


----------



## Wergeland 2.0

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Yes Sanctions work sometimes but not against proud countries and especially not Russia.
> 
> Now that being said Could Ukraine become another Afghanistan for Russia? To early to say that but if we go by topography I would say no. The best element they have is Urban fighting which Russia can negate by levelling cities.
> 
> Another thing to keep in mind is that this is relatively a new war and only 2 weeks old and we don't know yet how well Ukraine will react to the grind that will be telling of this conflict. The Longevity and patience of the Ukrainians which we don't know anything about yet but will have to find out about as this war continues



Bro i am convinced that Russia, or atleast Putin and his most closest confidants in the russian leadership, has choosen this path after calculating the effects.

I recommend everyone to read the book «Antifragilty» written by author Nicholas Taleb.
Its a profound book and yet so intuitive concept.

Basically there are systems in nature that are fragile, robust and third category: Antifragile, which are things, beings, systems, that not only survives during stress but in fact it THRIVES during stress. So much that if you remove stressors then a Antifragile system will simply become weak and fragile and dissolve. Antifragile systems MUST HAVE chaos and stress experiences in order to thrive.

Think about it; the human body and mind is essentialy a antifragile system. It only gets stronger by experiencing challenges. When a man get luxurious and lazy life, he simply becomes soft and weak.

This is what i believe Russian leadership, especially Putin have understood. He simply is letting Russia feel pain and scorn, so that Russia learns to manage and weather it, making it stronger and more independent.

Just to mention, there is a another metaphysical system that is also Antifragile. Can you guess what it is bro?
I will give a hint, it starts with I and ends with M….

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501700947038425100


----------



## Wood



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## Meengla

lightning F57 said:


> These foreign mercenaries going over from many European capitals going to create the European version of Al-Qaeda. Far right extreme, xenophobic groups with military experience, armoury and kills.



It is possible.
Saw an Indian strategist a couple of days ago saying that the abundance of the Stinger Missiles could likely end up in the wrong hands and down the road some European airports could become targets. Or weapons ending up with the ISIS/Al-Qaida types who must be sensing opportunity. In the fog of war, a lot happens.

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## Wergeland 2.0

Meengla said:


> It is possible.
> Saw an Indian strategist a couple of days ago saying that the abundance of the Stinger Missiles could likely end up in the wrong hands and down the road some European airports could become targets. Or weapons ending up with the ISIS/Al-Qaida types who must be sensing opportunity. In the fog of war, a lot happens.



Absolutely.
This missiles could end up with harming NATO countries that border Ukraine.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> Bro i am convinced that Russia, or atleast Putin and his most closest confidants in the russian leadership, has choosen this path after calculating the effects.
> 
> I recommend everyone to read the book «Antifragilty» written by author Nicholas Taleb.
> Its a profound book and yet so intuitive concept.
> 
> Basically there are systems in nature that are fragile, robust and third category: Antifragile, which are things, beings, systems, that not only survives during stress but in fact it THRIVES during stress. So much that if you remove stressors then a Antifragile system will simply become weak and fragile and dissolve. Antifragile systems MUST HAVE chais and stress around it in order to thrive.
> 
> Think about it; the human body and mind is essentialy a antifragile system. It only gets stronger by experiencing challenges. When a man get luxurious and lazy life, he simply becomes soft and weak.
> 
> This is what i believe Russian leadership, especially Putin have understood. He simply is letting Russia feel pain and scorn, so that Russia learns to manage and weather it, making it stronger and more independent.
> 
> Just to mention, there is a another metaphysical system that is also Antifragile. Can you guess what it is bro?
> Il vive a hint, it starts with I and ends with M….



Soviet union was an Antifragile state and workhorses. It honestly works majority of the time.

Example Allah himself caused antifragility in Medina and they were put under 50 years of civil war before Muhammad came to them in that city where men became extremely disciplined to the point where he would sleep on time and wake up early and into the frontline on repeat and inspect the frontline etc etc. They started to live in a highly militaristic disciplined lifestyle.. By the time he reached them and in fact they sought after him from another city as mediator to just stop this sickening lifestyle they find themselves in and it was nonestop brutal civil war.

The question is why? They were being prepared for a bigger goal then just Arabia but to storm the world but they didn't know that at all but it was divine work they have been made into gladitors out of life necessity. They never lost 1v1 duals in international conflicts because they were just so damn good and overly trained because a militaristic lifestyle was forced upon them for over a half-century..

The blitzkrieg ended around late 700s AD because they started to go with luxury lifestyle and wealth hence majority of the old-school in that time were always romanticising their hard-life and anti-fragility lives in poems and several books with a touch of nostalgia as they became overly wealthy but these holding out felt like a dying breed who were vocal people like Abu Darda he never left that lifestyle despite becoming a governor and publically lamenting and shaming all these who left this life-style and accepted luxury.. He was all about the grind and tear despite being the governor of a major city he chose to live in a poor-mans house with only few garments as his sole belongings he was just about that life whereas some of his other friends and now governors themselves in other cities lived in palaces with 100s of concubines and workers serving them with plenty of gold to the point where some of them had parts of their inner houses build with gold blocks


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

CrazyZ said:


> I thought it was confirmed that this British "volunteer" was an actor.


So are you not entertained ?

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## CrazyZ

Iron Shrappenel said:


> So are you not entertained ?


I saw some news reports of westerners going to Ukraine to sign up and fight. When they learn the contract is open ended and they are not allowed to go home.......they refuse to commit and leave Ukraine.

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## lamdacore

LeGenD said:


> NATO can monitor developments in Ukraine in real time with its extensive surveillance apparatus. Others are not in the position to do this.
> 
> Reports such as these:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nearly all of Russia's initial invasion forces now in Ukraine, Pentagon says
> 
> 
> Nearly all of the 190,000 Russian troops that were amassed on Ukraine's border are now fighting inside the country, a senior Pentagon official said Monday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - are informed by observations through surveillance apparatus.


No doubt they can and so can Russia. My point is that they are deducing things on the ground according to how they would do things. Russia has a very different approach to warfare. Russia is willing to lose soliders, and lots of them, just to achieve an objective. The West, does not have appetite for such an approach and so use air power to devastating effect.

Russian way of war is most costly in terms of lives but financially more affordable. The West way of war is financially draining with reduced cost in war. That is why it is entirely possible that the Russian war effort will continue despite the sanctions. Of course, the sanctions are intended for many different effect to throw a spanner in the war effort but if Russia can control those other effects, its military will still be in a position to continue the war of attrition in Ukraine.

That is why the assessment that West makes is often very much skewed.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501688351920988164

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## Iron Shrappenel

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501677980887752706


Kharkov is to be ash then...


----------



## Wood



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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501718944725577732

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## F-22Raptor

The US is close to passing a $13.6B package for Ukraine with $3.5B of that for new weapons and training.

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## kingQamaR

CrazyZ said:


> I saw some news reports of westerners going to Ukraine to sign up and fight. When they learn the contract is open ended and they are not allowed to go home.......they refuse to commit and leave Ukraine.



Nope. The fight will go on for years like the Middle Eastern wars. It's not possible for either side to win.


----------



## RescueRanger

Unrelated - But decided to make some civil protection guides in Ukrainian and share those in a group for Ukrainian volunteers. Just attaching a few of the ones I made here:

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## kingQamaR

retaxis said:


> Use kyiv as bargaining chip to take over Eastern Russian dominated Ukraine. Russia will take everything East of Dneiper and give back Kyiv. Thats the logical deal.



Blimey making advances ?? How useless are they you could get there quicker on a skateboard. The Ukrainian forces have proper embarrassed the Russians !!

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501720188298805250


----------



## tower9

HaMoTZeMaS said:


> Thing getting Nasty for US...
> 
> USA admits there are Biolabs in Ukraine, says if a biological attack happens ‘it is Russia’s fault’​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USA admits there are Biolabs in Ukraine, says any biological attack will be 'Russia's fault'
> 
> 
> The Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland admitted that Ukraine has "biological research facilities" and the USA is concerned that a biological attack may happen, because of Russia. | OpIndia News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.opindia.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They called it a conspiracy theory but United States just acknowledged existence of bio labs in Ukraine​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They called it a conspiracy theory but United States just acknowledged existence of bio labs in Ukraine
> 
> 
> The US admitted on Tuesday that Ukraine houses “biological research facilities” with Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs Victoria Nuland telling Senator Marco Rubio saying that the US is concerned the ‘research facilities’ could come under the control of Russian forces. We are working...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesnownews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly India is Talking against Masters Lol
> 
> *"Ukraine has biological research facilities," says Under Secretary Victoria Nuland. She has "no doubt" that in the event of a biological or chemical attack, #Russia would be responsible.
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501547268553711619*


I am pretty sure Covid was created in one of the 100 plus biowarfare labs run by the deep state.



Wergeland 2.0 said:


> Sanctions work sometimes and sometimes not. Has sanctions worked against North Korea? No. Worked against Serbia? Yes.
> 
> Problem with EU-US sanctions on such a massive scale is that its beyond the treshold of having a coercive effect.
> 
> Russia now is in a existential mode. What does it has to loose? Nothing. It has everything to win by keeping this war going. As Putin said, Russia will be sanctioned anyway so he dosent care anymore.
> 
> Btw, somebody here mentioned Ukraine as a potential Afghanistan replay for Russia. Well it could be.
> 
> OTOH this could also be in Russian favour. First of all Ukraine has totally different geography compared to Afg., as Ukraine has few mountains and a terrain thats familiar and similiar to the Russian homeland. Its the birthplace of Kievan Rus after all.
> 
> To me this war is akin to American Civil War. Essentially a intra civilization war. While the southern states were mostly blocked from recieving foreign aid (vast oceans), Ukraine is a different story. Thats why this conflict is so complex and potentially unpredictable. Russia could use armed irregular volunteers or similar forces to actually increase its influence, first in Ukraine, then in forexample Poland.
> 
> What happens if a fighting between irregular forces takes place along the NATO border and it slowly intensified and spread to Poland, Baltic, Romania etc.



IMO, the sanctions will hurt Russia but the backfire will be big. Russia is already listing all of the countries it deems unfriendly, these countries will also be the target of sanctions and export controls which will wreck their economies. Europe will be fucked big time.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501699893576048643

Lada will cease production

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## Patriot forever

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501565371580657665

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501718359099981835

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501718472979591173

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501719955158540290
Brand new assessment of Russian casualties

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## Microsoft

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501720188298805250



Austin is a disgrace to his post should've been removed after Afghanistan.


----------



## CrazyZ

kingQamaR said:


> Nope. The fight will go on for years like the Middle Eastern wars. It's not possible for either side to win.


Yep that's why some "volunteers" are going home. The contract they are given is open ended......they could be stuck in Ukraine for many years with no permission to go home.


----------



## Madni Bappa

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501691366304325635
> Ukrainian forces making gains in Kiev and Kharkiv


Taliban are almost surrendering to Panjsher. Sources.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501734747357294596

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501730892464771073

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501733011376812036


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501660053023211524

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501739564511240192


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## Clutch

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Example Allah himself caused antifragility in Medina and they were put under 50 years of civil war before Muhammad came to them in that city where men became extremely disciplined



Learn to speak with respect when it comes to Allah and His Prophet.

Not on this forum. 

Just FYI.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501734428367798280

US civilians now arming Ukrainians


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

I owe India an apology. I thought they were the world's biggest liars after the Galwan thing, but they're nowhere near. Ukrainians are *by far* the most prolific liars on the planet. A single Ukrainian can tell more lies than a billion Indians.

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## F-22Raptor

ZeEa5KPul said:


> I owe India an apology. I thought they were the world's biggest liars after the Galwan thing, but they're nowhere near. Ukrainians are *by far* the most prolific liars on the planet. A single Ukrainian can tell more lies than a billion Indians.




Your coping about as well as those cope cages on incinerated Russian tanks.

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## baqai

everything aside, west and US is winning this war hands down as far as media is concerned, God damn almost all trends are anti Russian and there is very very limited Russian aspect or side of story being shown

These sanctions are going to bite them back, Russia isn't Iraq and America/NATO don't have the wide spread support like they did on their false war on terror after 9/11 

Biggest war criminal EVER was/is/will be United States Of America which since it's existence (which itself was based on invasion) has been involved in one war or the other, directly or indirectly. Hypocrites they are.

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## Clutch

RescueRanger said:


> Lol the UK government is panicking over troops going AWOL to fight in Ukraine:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Black Isle Media - MoD Scrambles to Stop UK Squaddies Going to Ukraine
> 
> 
> The UK Ministry of Defence has launched into action to discourage British Soldiers travelling to Ukraine following some already going AWOL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> universalcreditsuffer.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That’s okay. 🙂
> 
> 
> Haha of course I know you were referring to WT 😂. I was just curious that’s why I asked. 🙂👍
> 
> For those of you who were wondering what happened to *Mr. Leon*, turns out the Ukrainians didn’t want him and sent him home 😂
> 
> View attachment 822398
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine war: Briton who volunteered to join fight against Russia turned down and told he would be 'a liability'
> 
> 
> Leon Dawson tells Sky News he has now travelled to Poland's border with Ukraine to deliver aid to the war-torn country - and he is still willing to take up arms if required.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.sky.com



He still doesn't get it... The Ukrainian are telling him... No blacks wanted.. they are say, "you are black and a liability, our Nazi troops will waste time lynching you instead of shooting at the Russians!"... He probably didn't pass grade 5 and doesn't understand...

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501755373664960512

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## Gul_Khan_Peshawar

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501755373664960512



Thanks for copy and pasting every tweet about Ukrain-Russia conflict on this forum.

Your service will be remembered and tales would be told to generations to come.

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## python-000



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## Madni Bappa

Why Russians having so many flat tires.

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## F-22Raptor

Gul_Khan_Peshawar said:


> Thanks for copy and pasting every tweet about Ukrain-Russia conflict on this forum.
> 
> Your service will be remembered and tales would be told to generations to come.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501762715756466176
Keep coping

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## kingQamaR

CrazyZ said:


> Yep that's why some "volunteers" are going home. The contract they are given is open ended......they could be stuck in Ukraine for many years with no permission to go home.



That’s not the point I made. mercenaries you brought up and to me are really insignificant to Ukraine having 44 million citizens fighting in this war and I really doubt these outsiders tourists watchers could fill up a 12 a side football team. Kiex given regular supplies thousands javelin stingers to continue fight for years against Putin.


----------



## Madni Bappa

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501762715756466176
> Keep coping


Keep spamming lol

Bro even you win. Faces of gora lands are exposed.



The SC said:


> Russian intelligence official:
> Soon, documents will be published publicly on Russian satellites that prove the truth of what happened..On September 11
> Beirut port bombing
> And the killing of Lebanon Prime Minister Hariri
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501606902937104388
> The famous saying: When thieves disagree, the truth comes out..


This war is world zionists/world jewry vs Putin.

Aur Putin sahb inqalabi ho gae hain.

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## Wood

Exclusive: So many Canadian fighters in Ukraine, they have their own battalion, source says


The International Legion for the Territorial Defence of Ukraine says the 550 would-be fighters from Canada are based in Kyiv




nationalpost.com





Canadians have their own battalion in Ukraine

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501673170528612360
The White House tried unsuccessfully to arrange calls between President Biden and the de facto leaders of Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates as the United States was working to build international support to counter Russia's invasion of Ukraine and contain rising oil prices. and American officials.

Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and Emirati Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed Al Nahyan have rejected US requests to speak with Biden in recent weeks, "There were some expectations of a phone call, but it didn't happen," a US official said of the planned discussion between Saudi Prince Mohammed and Biden.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501332167401500674

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## Orange

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501735660629200896

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## Indos

jhungary said:


> Franchisee own the right to use the brand name and the operation, equipment like the coke machine or ice cream machine were owned by the Franchise.
> 
> When they pull the plug, they pull the equipment away because those belong to the franchise not the person who own the license to operate



Well there is contract and investment done by the local partners, pulling out suddenly from Russia is not a wise thing to do. Contracts needs to be respected and the war is not the fault of their Russian partners.


----------



## Clutch

The SC said:


> Russian intelligence official:
> Soon, documents will be published publicly on Russian satellites that prove the truth of what happened..On September 11
> Beirut port bombing
> And the killing of Lebanon Prime Minister Hariri
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501606902937104388
> The famous saying: When thieves disagree, the truth comes out..



Love that quote about thieves


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501735841810554885

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501707302000287746

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## The SC



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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501784520147808257

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## Clutch

*Oliver Stone documentary maybe banned by the West because of forced Western Propaganda soon... 





*

If you live in a media suppressed Western country and its blocked... You can still watch it here on Rumble...








Ukraine On Fire


Ukraine. Across its eastern border is Russia and to its west-Europe. For centuries, it has been at the center of a tug-of-war between powers seeking to control its rich lands and access to the Black S




rumble.com





Ukraine. Across its eastern border is Russia and to its west-Europe. For centuries, it has been at the center of a tug-of-war between powers seeking to control its rich lands and access to the Black Sea. 2014's Maidan Massacre triggered a bloody uprising that ousted president Viktor Yanukovych and painted Russia as the perpetrator by Western media. But was it? "Ukraine on Fire" by Igor Lopatonok..


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501785574230966276


----------



## mmr

Wood said:


> Exclusive: So many Canadian fighters in Ukraine, they have their own battalion, source says
> 
> 
> The International Legion for the Territorial Defence of Ukraine says the 550 would-be fighters from Canada are based in Kyiv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nationalpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Canadians have their own battalion in Ukraine


Canada has 1.5 million Ukrainian Canadian. Even our deputy prime Minister is Ukrainian origin.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501783343226142721

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## LeGenD

ZeEa5KPul said:


> I owe India an apology. I thought they were the world's biggest liars after the Galwan thing, but they're nowhere near. Ukrainians are *by far* the most prolific liars on the planet. A single Ukrainian can tell more lies than a billion Indians.


Disagreed. Indians had nothing to show in Galwan.

Independent sources can show what Ukranians have achieved on the ground on the other hand.









Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine







www.oryxspioenkop.com





If Ukranians had not put up a fight, Russia would have swallowed the entire country by now. Kiyv is located very close to border and this city has not fallen yet.

Russians have also faced much resistance in Mariupol which is located in Donetsk Oblast and linked to Black Sea.









Mariupol bombing: before and after satellite images show destruction in Ukraine city


More than 1,000 people have been killed by Russian shelling, says mayor, amid outcry over attacks on residential areas and maternity hospital




www.theguardian.com





Something is not right in Russian narrative when Mariupol stood up to Russians like that.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501796765200175108

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501795949110255617

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501796171592962053


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## kingQamaR

He’s behaving like Israel state annexing others peoples countries on his own historically lies


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501800650291748864

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501801441941405697

Latest UK assessment


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501807870979026946

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## Madni Bappa

Clutch said:


> *Oliver Stone documentary maybe banned by the West because of forced Western Propaganda soon...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> If you live in a media suppressed Western country and its blocked... You can still watch it here on Rumble...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine On Fire
> 
> 
> Ukraine. Across its eastern border is Russia and to its west-Europe. For centuries, it has been at the center of a tug-of-war between powers seeking to control its rich lands and access to the Black S
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rumble.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine. Across its eastern border is Russia and to its west-Europe. For centuries, it has been at the center of a tug-of-war between powers seeking to control its rich lands and access to the Black Sea. 2014's Maidan Massacre triggered a bloody uprising that ousted president Viktor Yanukovych and painted Russia as the perpetrator by Western media. But was it? "Ukraine on Fire" by Igor Lopatonok..


Someone had stipulated earlier in this thread that Russia will form new boundaries around Dneper river.

To which I replied that the Russia boundaries wil look a bit like this:





(Red Line my assessment)
Seems like it coincides with this documentary.

Also notice how NGOs, IMF and the opposition are used to blackmail the government of a country which they(West/US etc) want to control.

Many parallels from this documentary can be applied to Pakistan as well.

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## Clutch

mmr said:


> Canada has 1.5 million Ukrainian Canadian. Even our deputy prime Minister is Ukrainian origin.



She shouldn't be allowed to force Canada to go to war because of her ethnicity.



Madni Bappa said:


> Also notice how NGOs, IMF and the opposition are used to blackmail the government of a country which they(West/US etc) want to control.
> 
> Many parallels from this





Madni Bappa said:


> Also notice how NGOs, IMF and the opposition are used to blackmail the government of a country which they(West/US etc) want to control.
> 
> Many parallels from this documentary can be applied to Pakistan as well.



Exactly my thoughts... I think they are doing it right now with the Opposition Vote of no confidence.

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## LeGenD

Clutch said:


> Love that quote about thieves



This approach is not conducive to Russian narrative.

Russians are using cruise missiles and ballistic missiles to strike at high value targets and powerful artillery pieces to bombard urban locations where resistance is stiff.

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## Clutch

LeGenD said:


> This approach is not conducive to Russian narrative.
> 
> Russians are using cruise missiles and ballistic missiles to strike at high value targets and powerful artillery pieces to bombard urban locations where resistance is stiff.



Their approach may change from caution over collateral damage to one of scorched earth if their military objectives fail and frustration dominates.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501802175646904320

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501802146395795457

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501802477628366848

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501813826169278466

Almost every Russian unit trying to enter into the outskirts of Kiev is getting obliterated

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## Viet

Russia army suffers a military disaster since invasion began.
12.000 killed
317 tanks destroyed 
Also 
1070 armored verhicles 
120 artillery 
56 Mlrs 
destroyed 









Krieg gegen die Ukraine: Wie hoch sind Russlands Verluste?


Die ukrainische Regierung schreibt Angreifer Russland im Krieg horrende Verluste zu - der Kreml hält sich bedeckt und berichtet von eigenen Erfolgen. Wie viel ist über Todesopfer auf beiden Seiten bekannt? Von Jasper Steinlein.




www.tagesschau.de





12.000 russische Soldaten gefallen, 317 Panzer sowie 1070 gepanzerte Fahrzeuge, 120 Artilleriesysteme sowie 56 Mehrfachraketenwerfer-Systeme (MLRS) zerstört worden, teilt das Verteidigungsministerium am Mittwochmorgen mit.

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## Kambojaric

This conflict will escalate unfortunately. I like the way Shirvan from the Caspian Report described the Russian invasion as a "handbrake invasion". The Russians have so far shown relative restraint hoping to make gains at little cost (civilian and military). However the Ukrainians are putting up resistance at all corners and it's only a matter of time before the big Russian guns enter the picture as pressure on Moscow mounts. It would be wise for both sides to negotiate a peace agreement soon.

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## Ich

Viet said:


> Russia army suffers a military disaster since invasion began.
> 12.000 killed
> 317 tanks destroyed
> Also
> 1070 armored verhicles
> 120 artillery
> 56 Mlrs
> destroyed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Krieg gegen die Ukraine: Wie hoch sind Russlands Verluste?
> 
> 
> Die ukrainische Regierung schreibt Angreifer Russland im Krieg horrende Verluste zu - der Kreml hält sich bedeckt und berichtet von eigenen Erfolgen. Wie viel ist über Todesopfer auf beiden Seiten bekannt? Von Jasper Steinlein.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tagesschau.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 12.000 russische Soldaten gefallen, 317 Panzer sowie 1070 gepanzerte Fahrzeuge, 120 Artilleriesysteme sowie 56 Mehrfachraketenwerfer-Systeme (MLRS) zerstört worden, teilt das Verteidigungsministerium am Mittwochmorgen mit.



Do you really believe this numbers?

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## mmr

Clutch said:


> She shouldn't be allowed to force Canada to go to war because of her ethnicity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly my thoughts... I think they are doing it right now with the Opposition Vote of no confidence.


She didn't. 

All three main political parties agree to help Ukraine.


----------



## zartosht

F-22Raptor said:


> They don’t get it. Russia has already lost strategically. Can anyone say Russias strategic position is better today than it was 2-3 weeks ago? Anyone that says yes is a clown.



the only clown here is you. absolutely spamming the forum with random tweets of heavily biased sources with 0 evidence most of the time. trying to spam the MSM narrative on this forum.

And yes, Russia's strategic position is much stronger today. With hypersonic missiles. the distance to moscow would be a couple of minutes. A permanent knife to the throat. Taking Ukraine is an existential threat to Russia. its not about putin, its about the Russian state..

I know as a mutt race 200 year old country~ you lack perspective. But I assure you people and leaders from old worlds do not. for americans, 100 years is a loooooong time. While others measure time in centuries.

nobody remember economics when reading about history. History will judge putin as the man that returned Crimea, Ukraine, and the entire black sea to Russia at a minimum.

It wasnt putin or Russia whos started this. It was the disgusting neocons and zionists at NATO.

These Ukie slaves are a hilarious bunch. Being all "nationalist" and puffing their chest at Russia. While Fat mutt raced zionist karen named Nuland sits in washington, and hand picks their top government officials. Thats totally ok with them..

"Putin" will anahilate these animals. Regardless of the amount of twitter spam you put here. And he will go down as one of histories great men. Unlike the toilet paper trash puppet western woke politicians, who will enter the trash cans of history.

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## F-22Raptor

Kambojaric said:


> This conflict will escalate unfortunately. I like the way Shirvan from the Caspian Report described the Russian invasion as a "handbrake invasion". The Russians have so far shown relative restraint hoping to make gains at little cost (civilian and military). However the Ukrainians are putting up resistance at all corners and it's only a matter of time before the big Russian guns enter the picture as pressure on Moscow mounts. It would be wise for both sides to negotiate a peace agreement soon.



They’ve used almost every weapon system in their arsenal. I don’t believe for a second their holding back. Not with the casualties we’re seeing.


----------



## thetutle

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> Problem with EU-US sanctions on such a massive scale is that its beyond the treshold of having a coercive effect.
> 
> Russia now is in a existential mode. What does it has to loose? Nothing. It has everything to win by keeping this war going. As Putin said, Russia will be sanctioned anyway so he dosent care anymore.


If Russia is immune from sanctions, it should just keep going. we will see how that works out for them. We will see in 10 years if they are stronger or weaker. 

If they are stronger, then other countries might also like to make themselves stronger by getting sanctions put against them.

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## GamoAccu

I can't believe this lunatic was a general.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501752778934591490

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## retaxis

F-22Raptor said:


> They’ve used almost every weapon system in their arsenal. I don’t believe for a second their holding back. Not with the casualties we’re seeing.


Then you don't know anything about war. Its hard to know whats going on from moms basement but understand russia has been doing everything it can to minimise casualties. Soon big howitzers will be deployed and major cities turned to dust. too much brainwashing is bad for the mind.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Ich said:


> Do you really believe this numbers?



The US assesses they’ve lost 5-6K KIA in the first 2 weeks. And 15K-18K WIA, deserters, and POWs. 

We’ve also seen nearly 1,000 pieces of equipment destroyed or abandoned. That’s visually confirmed. 

Russia has sustained significant losses in 2 weeks.


----------



## Tamerlane

Those who want a Russian expert to explain their strategy please read the following article. He says things like:

—They’re not surrounding cities completely on purpose to allow civilians to escape. 

—They’re going to kill all the neo-Nazis. No prisoners. 

—They’re going to kill the foreign mercenaries. 

—Putin has ordered a harder line with regard to civilian deaths. The gloves are off. 

The opinion of a professional about the special operation in Ukraine​





The opinion of a professional about the special operation in Ukraine (MUST READ!) | The Vineyard of the Saker


A bird's eye view of the vineyard




thesaker.is

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## F-22Raptor

zartosht said:


> the only clown here is you. absolutely spamming the forum with random tweets of heavily biased sources with 0 evidence most of the time. trying to spam the MSM narrative on this forum.
> 
> And yes, Russia's strategic position is much stronger today. With hypersonic missiles. the distance to moscow would be a couple of minutes. A permanent knife to the throat. Taking Ukraine is an existential threat to Russia. its not about putin, its about the Russian state..
> 
> I know as a mutt race 200 year old country~ you lack perspective. But I assure you people and leaders from old worlds do not. for americans, 100 years is a loooooong time. While others measure time in centuries.
> 
> nobody remember economics when reading about history. History will judge putin as the man that returned Crimea, Ukraine, and the entire black sea to Russia at a minimum.
> 
> It wasnt putin or Russia whos started this. It was the disgusting neocons and zionists at NATO.
> 
> These Ukie slaves are a hilarious bunch. Being all "nationalist" and puffing their chest at Russia. While Fat mutt raced zionist karen named Nuland sits in washington, and hand picks their top government officials. Thats totally ok with them..
> 
> "Putin" will anahilate these animals. Regardless of the amount of twitter spam you put here. And he will go down as one of histories great men. Unlike the toilet paper trash puppet western woke politicians, who will enter the trash cans of history.




Talk about an emotional, angry rant.  

Putin and Russia are getting obliterated. Cope

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## Laser

*Third World War: According to the predictions, a great world war will be started between Two “Alifs” and Two “Geems”. Russia would attack on Western “Alif” and then it would surrender in front of China. Upon the destruction, Russia would ask the mercy from China. Later on One Geem would make alliance with Russia and China against rest of the “Alif”. Most lethal and Massive destructive weapons will wipe majority of the people from the earth. Finally the “Alif” against which alliance was made will totally be wiped out from the map of the world and its name will only persist in the books of History.*
*




*
is it going to happen ???????????

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## Messerschmitt

Madni Bappa said:


> Keep spamming lol
> 
> Bro even you win. Faces of gora lands are exposed.
> 
> 
> This war is world zionists/world jewry vs Putin.
> 
> Aur Putin sahb inqalabi ho gae hain.


Hold on, I thought Putin is fighting "Nazis" not "Jewry"?


----------



## Viet

Ich said:


> Do you really believe this numbers?


Why not?
Russia old fashioned military meets hardcore ukrainischen fighters armed with latest western weapons.


----------



## Clutch

mmr said:


> She didn't.
> 
> All three main political parties agree to help Ukraine.




Perhaps they should watch this first before jumping in unilaterally...








Messerschmitt said:


> Hold on, I thought Putin is fighting "Nazis" not "Jewry"?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501821926456672258

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## zartosht

F-22Raptor said:


> Talk about an emotional, angry rant.
> 
> Putin and Russia are getting obliterated. Cope



You must be getting paid by the post. Because only a person trying to cope would be spamming the forum with random
spaaaaaaam of tweets. but ignore all the maps and the situation on the ground.. all to try and paint the western media narrative with absolutely 0 evidence.

talk about coping. Or getting paid to spread propaganda..... one of the 2

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## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> They’ve used almost every weapon system in their arsenal. I don’t believe for a second their holding back. Not with the casualties we’re seeing.


Russia old T72 tanks have no chance against western modern antitank missiles. The Ukraine army shoots them like chickens.
Now it’s time for Putin he must field T90 and Armata tanks.


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## Madni Bappa

F-22Raptor said:


> They’ve used almost every weapon system in their arsenal. I don’t believe for a second their holding back. Not with the casualties we’re seeing.


🙄



thetutle said:


> If Russia is immune from sanctions, it should just keep going. we will see how that works out for them. We will see in 10 years if they are stronger or weaker.
> 
> If they are stronger, then other countries might also like to make themselves stronger by getting sanctions put against them.


You already have half the world sanctioned.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501823312003051523


----------



## Madni Bappa

Laser said:


> *Third World War: According to the predictions, a great world war will be started between Two “Alifs” and Two “Geems”. Russia would attack on Western “Alif” and then it would surrender in front of China. Upon the destruction, Russia would ask the mercy from China. Later on One Geem would make alliance with Russia and China against rest of the “Alif”. Most lethal and Massive destructive weapons will wipe majority of the people from the earth. Finally the “Alif” against which alliance was made will totally be wiped out from the map of the world and its name will only persist in the books of History.*
> *
> View attachment 822564
> *
> is it going to happen ???????????


Yes. If you go to your local amil baba or people who have palm signboards in almost every chowk of Pakistan.

They will ask you for your name, your mother's name, your date of birth, your parents date of birth. OR they will tell you things about yourself, without you telling them those things. And predict the future.

These people are henchmen of shaytan. They mix 1 truth with 99 lies and serve you this lovely cocktail to consume.

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## LeGenD

Kambojaric said:


> This conflict will escalate unfortunately. I like the way Shirvan from the Caspian Report described the Russian invasion as a "handbrake invasion". The Russians have so far shown relative restraint hoping to make gains at little cost (civilian and military). However the Ukrainians are putting up resistance at all corners and it's only a matter of time before the big Russian guns enter the picture as pressure on Moscow mounts. It would be wise for both sides to negotiate a peace agreement soon.


Russians are not showing restraint.









Russian rockets are falling indiscriminately on Ukrainian cities


The goal may be to spread terror




www.economist.com





Ukrainians are using UAVs to take out Russian artillery pieces on the other hand.














Ukrainian Bayraktar TB2 UAV destroys Russian military column in second operational strike


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQF4r_fNlGI A Ukrainian Bayraktar TB2 unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) hit a Russian military column in the Chornobaivka, in southern Ukraine, in what is the second known operation of the UAV against Russian assets since October 2021. In a video shared by the Ukra




defbrief.com













The Russian Army Has A Problem: Ukraine Keeps Killing Its Tanks


Overall, Ukraine is fighting gallantly against Russian armor and tanks forces. But the Russians have paused and re-grouped.




www.19fortyfive.com





Some PDF members are in disbelief though. Mighty Russian army not living up to its usual hype.

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## F-22Raptor

Viet said:


> Russia old T72 tanks have no chance against western modern antitank missiles. The Ukraine army shoots them like chickens.
> Now it’s time for Putin he must field T90 and Armata tanks.


 

T-90s have been destroyed as well. At least 14


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## Madni Bappa

@F-22Raptor all this evangelizing you're doing with all the right buzz words i.e freedom, liberty, democracy and all the usual Captain America saves the day bull schtik. Will one day come to bite you really really hard.

The Neo Nazi Nuland has fostered and nurtured with the serum of her own bossom. Will one day come to bite you. You've already seen one episode on Jan 6. These Neo Nazi groups will be retained by your own state agencies. When they decide it's their time to shine against their own rulers.


----------



## serenity

yeah I do think Russia isn't really holding back that much.

Basically every conventional weapon is being used and of course this is not including strategic weapons like strategic bombers and ICBMs and SSNs but basically everything they should be using are being used.

However isn't Russia holding control over a lot of Ukraine? Ukraine shouldn't be underestimated. Lots of modern weapons for insurgent war and home turf advantage. Guerilla warfare and constant stream of supply from the West.

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## TNT

F-22Raptor said:


> Strategically Russia is already defeated, with almost no upside for Putin. Destroyed Ukrainian cities is not a victory for Putin. The Russian military has been humiliated, the Russian economy is cratering, and Russia is being treated as a pariah state by the international community.
> 
> Russia has already lost.



Oh yes Russia destroyed and lost and murica wins lolz while the ground reality is that Ukraine ready to give concessions 😂.
By the way, when will u go to Ukraine and fight? U would be the only Indonesian cheerleader of murica fighting in Ukraine, u can make headlines, plz go quickly.

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## Clutch

Kambojaric said:


> This conflict will escalate unfortunately. I like the way Shirvan from the Caspian Report described the Russian invasion as a "handbrake invasion". The Russians have so far shown relative restraint hoping to make gains at little cost (civilian and military). However the Ukrainians are putting up resistance at all corners and it's only a matter of time before the big Russian guns enter the picture as pressure on Moscow mounts. It would be wise for both sides to negotiate a peace agreement soon.



Unfortunately the NATO Western parties are not interested in a peaceful resolution right now. This is their planned knee-jerk response by Russia and they will fight Russia to the last Ukrainian.

Zelensky is playing the role perfectly as the "hero" who never surrenders.

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## Madni Bappa

This guy was doing same jrking off to and cheerleading for Panjsher. Then him and his other work from home colleagues like gambit and jhungary etc all disappeared on the morning Taliban entered Kabul and Ghani's palace. 

Before Panjsher they were salivating over the one or two good generals they had in ANA.

And before that they were getting all worked up about the 300k ANA army, air force etc. 


retaxis said:


> Then you don't know anything about war. Its hard to know whats going on from moms basement but understand russia has been doing everything it can to minimise casualties. Soon big howitzers will be deployed and major cities turned to dust. too much brainwashing is bad for the mind.


 These fools don't realize that it's not the 70s, 80s or 90s or even 2000s anymore. People in non white countries can see through their "Captain America" or "James Bond" bullsh!t.

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## gambit

zartosht said:


> I know as a *mutt race* 200 year old country~ you lack perspective. But I assure you people and leaders from old worlds do not. for americans, 100 years is a loooooong time. *While others measure time in centuries.*


Maybe that is why the Mutt Race Americans accomplished so much in such short time, because others have bad clocks. When a people and a culture measure time in centuries increments, there would not be a sense of urgency about life. You would always put things off to tomorrow, and tomorrow, and so on. On that metaphorical clock, not only are the time markers wide apart, the hands moves slowly, inducing lethargy into the culture. So now, the Mutts lead while others struggles to follow and make best use of the scraps the Mutts left behind.

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## Madni Bappa

Messerschmitt said:


> Hold on, I thought Putin is fighting "Nazis" not "Jewry"?


In America you will find half the right wing ready to give their lives for Israel and the other half shooting up synagoouougues.

Come to think of it. They all want to give their lives for Israel just to bring Jesus. Then team up with Jesus to destroy or convert jews.

Twisted I know. So yea. Both Zionists in same camp. For now. At least until Meschiach Ben David for jews. And Jesus H Christ for Christian Zionists comes.


----------



## RescueRanger

Russia is no longer going to participate in the Council of Europe - Russian Foreign Ministry.
— 
Russia is returning to Cold War levels of diplomatic relations with Europe and the US.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak



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## sammuel

Laser said:


> *Third World War: According to the predictions, a great world war will be started between Two “Alifs” and Two “Geems”. Russia would attack on Western “Alif” and then it would surrender in front of China. Upon the destruction, Russia would ask the mercy from China. Later on One Geem would make alliance with Russia and China against rest of the “Alif”. Most lethal and Massive destructive weapons will wipe majority of the people from the earth. Finally the “Alif” against which alliance was made will totally be wiped out from the map of the world and its name will only persist in the books of History.*
> *
> View attachment 822564
> *
> is it going to happen ???????????





Madni Bappa said:


> Yes. If you go to your local amil baba or people who have palm signboards in almost every chowk of Pakistan.
> 
> They will ask you for your name, your mother's name, your date of birth, your parents date of birth. OR they will tell you things about yourself, without you telling them those things. And predict the future.
> 
> These people are henchmen of shaytan. They mix 1 truth with 99 lies and serve you this lovely cocktail to consume.




According to the Jewish Kabalistic perspective what we see today is the starting process of what is called in Hebrew : Tikkon,

Which means in translation : repair; correction , amendment , that would lead to healing of the world.

The reason they say that is that in the last century we see events that are Global and effect every person on this planet. Something that never happened before in human history.

Take for example the Corona virus , for the first time in history all the world got sick together.

According to Kabala , those difficulties we experience hurt us exactly in the areas that we need to work on and improve ourselves.

If we go back to the corona virus , think where did it hurt people ?

In our connection and relation with one another !

Suddenly we where not able to meet with friends , go to public places , meet relatives. Our mouths ( the basic tool to we use to communicate with one another ) got covered with a mask.

And this is the most important thing that we need to work on. On how we treat one another. Or in other world the most fundamental rule :

*"You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against any of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord."*

Leviticus 19:18


All the hate , all the grudge , all the egoistic behavior is meant to be replaced with love.

And if we do not start walking in this direction, those global blows would just keep on coming , not as punishment , but as means to put us on the right track.

May peace and love triumph , and may we see the day where humanity suffering will be be over.

Peace


This ancient promise , is what inspired the following song by Matisyahu :





'


~



Peace

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501832628080676871

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## srshkmr

GamoAccu said:


> I can't believe this lunatic was a general.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501752778934591490


Well some clearly don’t understand sarcasm


----------



## LeGenD

Members are advised to not become personal with each other. Control your tempers.

Some members watch this thread as guests as well and can login to respond to a post or two.

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## Paul2

Viet said:


> Russia old T72 tanks have no chance against western modern antitank missiles. The Ukraine army shoots them like chickens.
> Now it’s time for Putin he must field T90 and Armata tanks.



T-90s of Russia's strongest units were also popped in the first week of war.

T-90 doesn't bring much on top of T-72 as a chassis, it's mostly new electronics, and a new turret + a better ERA.

LAWs cannot penetrate T-72 front anyways, so new ERA doesn't make much difference, but everything else is even more vulnerable to modern weapons.

Very few Russian tanks were lost to tank on tank combat, and those which were, were destroyed by 9k112 tank launched ATGMs, and possibly the new Ukrainian tank launchable Kombat ATGM

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## LeGenD

Paul2 said:


> T-90s of Russia's strongest units were also popped in the first week of war.
> 
> T-90 doesn't bring much on top of T-72 as a chassis, it's mostly new electronics, and a new turret + a better ERA.
> 
> LAWs cannot penetrate T-72 front anyways, so new ERA doesn't make much difference, but everything else is even more vulnerable to modern weapons.
> 
> Very few Russian tanks were lost to tank on tank combat, and those which were, were destroyed by 9k112 tank launched ATGMs


Some members are forgetting that Ukraine is not Afghanistan.

Ukrainian forces are armed with ATGMs and UAVs to strike at Russian forces and knock out Russian tanks and artillery pieces in clashes.


----------



## Gul_Khan_Peshawar

Ich said:


> Do you really believe this numbers?



Irony is that he really believes it, along with few other members on this forum.


----------



## Madni Bappa

LeGenD said:


> Members are advised to not become personal with each other. Control your tempers.
> 
> Some members watch this thread as guests as well and can login to respond to a post or two.


Nothing personal or angry. Just pointing out people on foreign payroll.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501833768834904066

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## LeGenD

Madni Bappa said:


> Nothing personal or angry. Just pointing out people on foreign payroll.


I have a fairly good idea of PDF membership base. Becoming personal with members is not helpful.

Let us keep this discussion straightforward and facts-driven.

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## dBSPL

How about a tbm themed decorative seat in your garden?

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## thetutle

Messerschmitt said:


> Hold on, I thought Putin is fighting "Nazis" not "Jewry"?


Yeah thats right, I thought Russia is fighting Nazis and trying to help the jews. 

Remember de-Nazification? Losing track of your own propaganda?

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## LeGenD

Goritoes said:


> Has Russia surrendered yet? I mean after having 100,000,000 trillion soldiers lost, 300,000 Billions fighter jets lost, 900,000 Billion Tanks lost they should have surrendered... NO ?


Bro, is this post of any value? Honestly?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501839032728358915

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501833768834904066



These are likely those 7 BTGs which bypassed Kharkiv 5 days ago, and went to Kiyv

They got artillery, Baraktar, some tank fire on them. It's evident Ukrainians didn't use heaviest options they had (300mm MLRS, bigger tube artillery, or airstrikes)

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## RescueRanger

The Canadians fighting in Ukraine have their own brigade and now their own patch:

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Goritoes

LeGenD said:


> Bro, is this post of any value? Honestly?


I was actually arguing with @WebMaster regarding the same issue, your question is subjective as from your POV my post adds no value but from many it does add, as It's a personal observation and a hit to the Propaganda which we see on Social media including PDF which is flooded with one sided narrative. So yes you delete the post of constructive Sarcasm but it will just strengthen my argument that PDF is pushing a very limited and selective narrative (As usual) and the forum I know where you are free to post constructive critics/Arguments/sarcasm is dead.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501839861522837504

Lithuanias Minister of Defense


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501820101095399426


----------



## F-22Raptor

Goritoes said:


> I was actually arguing with @WebMaster regarding the same issue, your question is subjective as from your POV my post adds no value but from many it does add, as It's a personal observation and a hit to the Propaganda which we see on Social media including PDF which is flooded with one sided narrative. So yes you delete the post of constructive Sarcasm but it will just strengthen my argument that PDF is pushing a very limited and selective narrative (As usual) and the forum I know where you are free to post constructive critics/Arguments/sarcasm is dead.




If you don’t like the content I post or others then there’s nothing stopping you from blocking us.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501825404604198921


----------



## LeGenD

Some of the best contributors in this thread are following:

@dBSPL
@RescueRanger
@Vergennes
@Messerschmitt
@Elias MC
@Paul2

Less politics, no drama, more focused on the topic and providing valuable information.

@RescueRanger bhai make us laugh at times as well.

This is how it should be.

Unfortunately, some members are like: This forum is compromised. USA this and that. Zionists. Nazis. Petty politics. Maybe try contributing to a topic constructively for a change?



Gul_Khan_Peshawar said:


> Irony is that he really believes it, along with few other members on this forum.


How would @Ich or you know?

Russians have certainly lost hundreds of military vehicles in this conflict by now. Troop losses would be high as well.

This is a war - not a joke.

Maybe, some countries can fight back and inflict losses?

USSR suffered heavy losses in Finland in WW2 (1939 - 1940).
Germany suffered heavy losses and were unable to achieve breakthrough in the Battle of Britain in WW2 in 1941.
US-led forces were unable to achieve breakthrough in Italy in WW2 in 1943.

It happens.

Russia should try its luck with UK perhaps. The British will knock Russian teeth in.

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## dBSPL

#Meet4Diplomacy
#Antalya


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501491915539296257

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## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501833768834904066


They bunched up, got shelled, retreated after a few losses. 

Concentrated artillery fire would have taken them all out. And 200 casualties.

They were very lucky.

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## Madni Bappa

Goritoes said:


> I was actually arguing with @WebMaster regarding the same issue, your question is subjective as from your POV my post adds no value but from many it does add, as It's a personal observation and a hit to the Propaganda which we see on Social media including PDF which is flooded with one sided narrative. So yes you delete the post of constructive Sarcasm but it will just strengthen my argument that PDF is pushing a very limited and selective narrative (As usual) and the forum I know where you are free to post constructive critics/Arguments/sarcasm is dead.


It absolutely is dead. I think PDF has been infiltrated already. Sad sight to see.


----------



## RescueRanger

Spoiler: Health warning: disturbing 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501834558823616513



The lifeless body of a young girl lay wrapped in a blanket - found among the rubble in donets village. 

A stark reminder for all those cheerleading for conflict that war tends to take away the future of nations.

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Madni Bappa

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501825404604198921


They still won't let you into EU my bro 🤣


----------



## Bengal71

Laser said:


> *Third World War: According to the predictions, a great world war will be started between Two “Alifs” and Two “Geems”. Russia would attack on Western “Alif” and then it would surrender in front of China. Upon the destruction, Russia would ask the mercy from China. Later on One Geem would make alliance with Russia and China against rest of the “Alif”. Most lethal and Massive destructive weapons will wipe majority of the people from the earth. Finally the “Alif” against which alliance was made will totally be wiped out from the map of the world and its name will only persist in the books of History.*
> *
> View attachment 822564
> *
> is it going to happen ???????????



Who are the jims?


----------



## Madni Bappa

RescueRanger said:


> Spoiler: Health warning: disturbing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501834558823616513
> 
> 
> 
> The lifeless body of a young girl lay wrapped in a blanket - found among the rubble in donets village.
> 
> A stark reminder for all those cheerleading for conflict that war tends to take away the future of nations.


The cheerleading is mainly being done by those willing to fight Russia till the last Ukrainian.

Most of Pakistani posters on other hand are continuously pointing out the two faced nature of Western gora countries.



Bengal71 said:


> Who are the jims?


Jims are usually tall white bacon loving Americans 🤣 لماو

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## RescueRanger

LeGenD said:


> Some of the best contributors in this thread are following:
> 
> @dBSPL
> @RescueRanger
> @Vergennes
> @Messerschmitt
> @Elias MC
> 
> Less politics, no drama, more focused on the topic and providing valuable information.
> 
> @RescueRanger bhai make us laugh at times as well.
> 
> This is how it should be.
> 
> Unfortunately, some members are like: This forum is compromised. USA this and that. Zionists. Nazis. Petty politics. Maybe try contributing to a topic constructively for a change?
> 
> 
> How would @Ich or you know?
> 
> Russians have certainly lost hundreds of military vehicles in this conflict by now. Troop losses would be high as well.
> 
> This is a war - not a joke.
> 
> Maybe, some countries can fight back and inflict losses?
> 
> USSR suffered heavy losses in Finland in WW2 (1939 - 1940).
> Germany suffered heavy losses and were unable to achieve breakthrough in the Battle of Britain in WW2 in 1941.
> US-led forces were unable to achieve breakthrough in Italy in WW2 in 1943.
> 
> It happens.
> 
> Russia should try its luck with UK perhaps. The British will knock Russian teeth in.


Brother thank you for your kind words - I am trying my best to look at this dreadful business from both sides but we should remember that Russia is the aggressor and every time I see civilian casualties it makes me so angry.

This madness must end- and that decision will be made behind closed doors by people much more powerful than you and I but but I cannot help but feel a sense of helplessness.

Being a medic we take an oath on the Quran to help anyone - and it breaks my heart when I see needless loss of life.

I try to inject some humour because I know all too well the impact such graphic images can have on one’s mental health.

I will urge members here to take time for mindfulness exercises and to avoid getting de-sensitised to Juan tragedy - it’s all to easy to look at figures and say oh 377 people have died - each number was a person, with dreams and hopes and loved ones - with each death part of a family dies too.

Just recently it was announced that Europes leading future mathematician was a 29 y/o Ukrainian girl who died in shelling.

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
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## Tamerlane

Laser said:


> *Third World War: According to the predictions, a great world war will be started between Two “Alifs” and Two “Geems”. Russia would attack on Western “Alif” and then it would surrender in front of China. Upon the destruction, Russia would ask the mercy from China. Later on One Geem would make alliance with Russia and China against rest of the “Alif”. Most lethal and Massive destructive weapons will wipe majority of the people from the earth. Finally the “Alif” against which alliance was made will totally be wiped out from the map of the world and its name will only persist in the books of History.*
> *
> View attachment 822564
> *
> is it going to happen ???????????



These prophecies are attributed to Shah Naimatullah Wali, a poet who lived in Iran in the 14/15th century. It’s not proven that he wrote them, or someone else. The prophecy verses do not exist in his main collection. Some people think that they may have been written much later and attributed to him.

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## dBSPL

Madni Bappa said:


> They still won't let you into EU my bro 🤣



You are so ignorant and unfamiliar with the part of the subject that concerns Turkey that all you can do is be silly. What you wrote has nothing to do with the topic. Turkey's dialogue efforts have nothing to do with the EU-Turkey relations...

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## LeGenD

RescueRanger said:


> Brother thank you for your kind words - I am trying my best to look at this dreadful business from both sides but we should remember that Russia is the aggressor and every time I see civilian casualties it makes me so angry.
> 
> This madness must end- and that decision will be made behind closed doors by people much more powerful than you and I but but I cannot help but feel a sense of helplessness.
> 
> Being a medic we take an oath on the Quran to help anyone - and it breaks my heart when I see needless loss of life.
> 
> I try to inject some humour because I know all too well the impact such graphic images can have on one’s mental health.
> 
> I will urge members here to take time for mindfulness exercises and to avoid getting de-sensitised to Juan tragedy - it’s all to easy to look at figures and say oh 377 people have died - each number was a person, with dreams and hopes and loved ones - with each death part of a family dies too.
> 
> Just recently it was announced that Europes leading future mathematician was a 29 y/o Ukrainian girl who died in shelling.


100% agreed with you, bro.

My thoughts are same about this conflict.

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## Madni Bappa

dBSPL said:


> You are so ignorant and unfamiliar with the part of the subject that concerns Turkey that all you can do is be silly. What you wrote has nothing to do with the topic. Turkey's dialogue efforts have nothing to do with the EU-Turkey relations...


Şaka ediyorum abi. Sakin ol!


----------



## Tamerlane

Bengal71 said:


> Who are the jims?



Germany or Japan.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501850944073523205

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## beijingwalker

Fact Check: Old, unrelated images passed off as recent photos from war-torn Ukraine​




​








Fact Check: Old, unrelated images passed off as recent photos from war-torn Ukraine


India Today Anti Fake News War Room found that five images in this post are old and not related to the ongoing Ukraine conflict.




www.indiatoday.in

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## dBSPL

Madni Bappa said:


> Şaka ediyorum abi. Sakin ol!


Estağfirullah. Kusura bakmayın, konudan devam edelim.

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## beijingwalker

How to Spot Fake News in the Ukraine-Russia Disinformation War​Mar 07, 2022 9:53 AM

The blonde Ukrainian girl raised her fist at the Russian soldier. “Go back to your country,” she yelled at him – at least according to the caption for the video that has been shared widely on social media and been watched millions of times over the past week.

The problem, as numerous fact-checkers have revealed, is that the soldier isn’t Russian and the girl isn’t Ukrainian. The soldier is Israeli and the girl is none other than Palestinian Ahed Tamimi, who rose to fame a decade ago thanks to footage shot in the West Bank showing her confronting an Israeli soldier.









How to spot fake news in the Ukraine-Russia disinformation war


***




www.haaretz.com

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## dBSPL

beijingwalker said:


> Fact Check: Old, unrelated images passed off as recent photos from war-torn Ukraine​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fact Check: Old, unrelated images passed off as recent photos from war-torn Ukraine
> 
> 
> India Today Anti Fake News War Room found that five images in this post are old and not related to the ongoing Ukraine conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.indiatoday.in


This is one of the frequently used post-truth methods. The blunting of interest and sensitivities in information flows is one of the main work of false flag activities.


----------



## Goritoes

F-22Raptor said:


> If you don’t like the content I post or others then there’s nothing stopping you from blocking us.


No, You are free to post whatever you want as long as its on topic and not insulting, I am only arguing that everyone should have that same right.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501852887823134720

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ich

LeGenD said:


> How would @Ich or you know?



I dont know. That is why i did not offer any numbers about losses of russian or ukrain side. And that also is why i asked him if he believes the numbers he gave. And the link he gave was from the german "Tagesschau", a state TV and propaganda mouth pipe of the criminal and corrupt german gov. And at least this "Tagesschau" tells a statement from some ukrainien who came up with this numbers. So...

To make it clear: I dont care about such numbers, wether it is from russia or it is from ukrain. I only care about the progress or degress on the ground. Thats my way to get a small picture about what is happen there.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501854712508915712

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Paul2

LeGenD said:


> Some of the best contributors in this thread are following:
> 
> @dBSPL
> @RescueRanger
> @Vergennes
> @Messerschmitt
> @Elias MC
> @Paul2
> 
> Less politics, no drama, more focused on the topic and providing valuable information.
> 
> @RescueRanger bhai make us laugh at times as well.
> 
> This is how it should be.
> 
> Unfortunately, some members are like: This forum is compromised. USA this and that. Zionists. Nazis. Petty politics. Maybe try contributing to a topic constructively for a change?
> 
> 
> How would @Ich or you know?
> 
> Russians have certainly lost hundreds of military vehicles in this conflict by now. Troop losses would be high as well.
> 
> This is a war - not a joke.
> 
> Maybe, some countries can fight back and inflict losses?
> 
> USSR suffered heavy losses in Finland in WW2 (1939 - 1940).
> Germany suffered heavy losses and were unable to achieve breakthrough in the Battle of Britain in WW2 in 1941.
> US-led forces were unable to achieve breakthrough in Italy in WW2 in 1943.
> 
> It happens.
> 
> Russia should try its luck with UK perhaps. The British will knock Russian teeth in.



I think Iranian-Iraqi war is the best comparison. Both countries had serious modern armies from hardware standpoint. And one side attacked another on assumption of a "walk in the park" war.

I think it's reasonable to think now that Russia after this will turn into a new Iraq, than a new North Korea.


----------



## Baghial

NO -WONDER IVAN IS FUC**ED...


He does this incredibly brave thing…and his hands don’t even quiver. Buy this man a case of whatever he drinks and send me the bill.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501649099828912133

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## Paul2

thetutle said:


> They bunched up, got shelled, retreated after a few losses.
> 
> Concentrated artillery fire would have taken them all out. And 200 casualties.
> 
> They were very lucky.



Indeed, Ukrainians ran out of heavy firepower


----------



## Type59

Paul2 said:


> I think Iranian-Iraqi war is the best comparison. Both countries had serious modern armies from hardware standpoint. And one side attacked another on assumption of a "walk in the park" war.
> 
> I think it's reasonable to think now that Russia after this will turn into a new Iraq, than a new North Korea.



Agree with first part. Russia thought war would be easy, however initial failures does not mean war is lost.

The second part, NATO might be supplying weapons against Russia today, but when NATO invades another country then Russia will do same.

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## vi-va

jhungary said:


> Their Headquarter in Russia will, and either way, if they can't those thing will not be serviced and eventually broke down.
> 
> Have you ever wonder why McDonald's Ice Cream machine always broken down while Hungry's Jack Frozen Coke machine always broken down? Those thing were supposed to service regularly but the Franchise people usually don't come regularly to keep the franchisee in check.
> 
> I need to stop talking about Franchise, it bring back a lot of bad memory. Even worse than my time in Iraq.....


No offense.
Does Green Card take you to Iraq? You are Vietnamese, right?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501858923409780736
More captured Russian equipment

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## Tamerlane

Messerschmitt said:


> Hold on, I thought Putin is fighting "Nazis" not "Jewry"?



Israel is the elephant in the room. People may see it but no one wants to discuss it. 

I would suggest that if people don’t understand the total control of Jews/Israel over the US they will never understand anything going on in the world. 

US policy is Israeli policy. When the US does something we need to ask what Israel’s objective is. 

Jews have a hatred for Russia going back to the time of the czars. The Bolshevik revolution resulted in them killing off the royal family and taking over the country. 

After the end of the USSR the bulk of Russian resources were stolen by the Jewish oligarchs. When Putin threw them out they moved to Israel. 

Then Putin got them angrier by getting involved in Syria and Iran, targets of Israeli regime change. 

The bulk of supremacistsright wingers, white supremacists in the West are on Israeli payroll. That explains why nationalist European politicians mainly target Muslims, never Jews. Traditional nazis obviously hated Jews, but very few of them exist now. The neo-nazis in Ukraine were working under a Jewish President and Prime Minister, so obviously they didn’t have a problem with Jews. 

This war is an Israeli declaration of war on Russia. Nothing short of the collapse of Russia will be tolerated. Putin has to go and a government friendly to Israel has to be installed. They want a penis-piano-playing guy like Jewlensky running Russia. That’s the objective. If Putin survives then Zion will be in a lot of trouble.

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## Paul2

Type59 said:


> Agree with first part. Russia thought war would be easy, however initial failures does not mean war is lost.



One thing for sure, this war cannot be won. There are inlaws behind every tree in north Ukraine, and land army is Russian military biggest element.

Iranians took grievous losses, but fought until Saddam had no option, but to give up or risk running out of military to police its own cities.

Both sides waved the religion flag, but Iranian were clearly the ones who followed on it with true fanatical zeal, and Iraqis not. This was a morale defeat for the Iraqis who started poking jokes at Saddam, and their leadership at large suddenly becoming religious after years of following Baathism ideology, and crushing religion.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Paul2 said:


> I think Iranian-Iraqi war is the best comparison. Both countries had serious modern armies from hardware standpoint. And one side attacked another on assumption of a "walk in the park" war.
> 
> I think it's reasonable to think now that Russia after this will turn into a new Iraq, than a new North Korea.


You have the sides mixed up. Another case of factual incorrectness with absolutely zero shame.

Ukraine started attacking Donetsk and Lugansk first. So Russia might be the new Iran (isolated oil producer) but it is actually Ukraine being the new Iraq.

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501833768834904066






F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501832628080676871



It seems like the Russian army is in a marathon of "everything not to do" in a war.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Paul2 said:


> One thing for sure, this war cannot be won. There are inlaws behind every tree in north Ukraine, and land army is Russian military biggest element.
> 
> Iranians took grievous losses, but fought until Saddam had no option, but to give up or risk running out of military to police its own cities.
> 
> Both sides waved the religion flag, but Iranian were clearly the ones who followed on it with true fanatical zeal, and Iraqis not. This greatly demoralised the Iraqis who started poking jokes at Saddam, and their leadership at large suddenly becoming religious after years of following Baathism ideology, and crushing religion.


another factual inaccuracy. Russia is a federal democracy that doesn't need far right paramilitaries like Azov Battalion to police its own cities. There are no Russian paramilitaries or militias like Azov Battalion.


----------



## dBSPL

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501833768834904066




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501842243115790339
"The Ukrainian heavy artillery, which marked the targets with Bayraktar Tb2, finished the job." This indicates that Ukrainian artillery units have now achieved fully integrated operational capability with tactical drones. A very important talent acquisition for the Ukrainian army.

"It is understood from the Russian radio conversations that the 6th Armored Regiment was almost destroyed and its commander(Colonel Zakharov ) was also killed." Another disgraceful event for the Russian army. How can the entire convoy be lost together with the regiment commander... the explanation for ignoring such a tactical error/technical defect is something that needs to be clarified with a military investigation.

Russian radio record:
- 6th Regiment, I can't report right now, there are too many casualties, they are waiting, we were ambushed, the Regimental Commander died, I'm looking at the rest.
-Now get everyone together and then you're reporting to me, got it?
-They shoot from there with Artillery, Tank, UCAV, as far as I understand Bayraktar is flying.



Ukrainian intelligence anouncment about their ambush:
"The 6th Armored Regiment of the 90th Tank Division advancing in the direction of Borvary was largely destroyed. The commander of the regiment, Colonel Zakharov, was killed. The 256th Mechanized Infantry regiment suffered heavy losses. Russian troops withdrew."

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## bobo6661

FairAndUnbiased said:


> another factual inaccuracy. Russia is a federal democracy that doesn't need far right paramilitaries like Azov Battalion to police its own cities. There are no Russian paramilitaries or militias like Azov Battalion.


Sadly for you they using them... wagner grup and whole donetsk/lugansk republik its a right wing paramilitarie sponsored by russia ...

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## Paul2

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501842243115790339
> "The Ukrainian heavy artillery, which marked the targets with Bayraktar Tb2, finished the job." This indicates that Ukrainian artillery units have now achieved fully integrated operational capability with tactical drones. A very important talent acquisition for the Ukrainian army.
> 
> "It is understood from the Russian radio conversations that the 6th Armored Regiment was almost destroyed and its commander(Colonel Zakharov ) was also killed." Another disgraceful event for the Russian army. How can the entire convoy be lost together with the regiment commander... the explanation for ignoring such a tactical error/technical defect is something that needs to be clarified with a military investigation.
> 
> Russian radio record:
> - 6th Regiment, I can't report right now, there are too many casualties, they are waiting, we were ambushed, the Regimental Commander died, I'm looking at the rest.
> -Now get everyone together and then you're reporting to me, got it?
> -They shoot from there with Artillery, Tank, UCAV, as far as I understand Bayraktar is flying.
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian intelligence anouncment about their ambush:
> "The 6th Armored Regiment of the 90th Tank Division advancing in the direction of Borvary was largely destroyed. The commander of the regiment, Colonel Zakharov, was killed. The 256th Mechanized Infantry regiment suffered heavy losses. Russian troops withdrew."



Just confirming our previous conclusions that drones made conventional light artillery so much more deadly even without any smart munitions. UAVs take out ends of the column, and artillery delivers firepower using UAV feeds for fire direction, and correction.

I feel old 122mm SPGs will be a very well selling item around the world after this war.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501858087111729152
Russia doesn’t have enough forces


----------



## Vergennes

RescueRanger said:


> Spoiler: Health warning: disturbing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501834558823616513
> 
> 
> 
> The lifeless body of a young girl lay wrapped in a blanket - found among the rubble in donets village.
> 
> A stark reminder for all those cheerleading for conflict that war tends to take away the future of nations.



"Yes but if it could have been avoided if Ukraine surrendered and accepted Russian demands!!". Yes it could have been avoided at the first place if Russia didn't invade Ukraine with the most absurds casus belli ever.

As always,those who romanticize war aren't those who are losing family members in conflicts,have never seen real combat and are sitting comfortably behind their computer,their only real combat experience being battlefield or call of duty.

(Just some humor for a bit of a change)


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501756652483190786

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## Messerschmitt

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501828458812370949

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## LeGenD

Ich said:


> I dont know. That is why i did not offer any numbers about losses of russian or ukrain side. And that also is why i asked him if he believes the numbers he gave. And the link he gave was from the german "Tagesschau", a state TV and propaganda mouth pipe of the criminal and corrupt german gov. And at least this "Tagesschau" tells a statement from some ukrainien who came up with this numbers. So...
> 
> To make it clear: I dont care about such numbers, wether it is from russia or it is from ukrain. I only care about the progress or degress on the ground. Thats my way to get a small picture about what is happen there.


I see.

There is ample evidence of the fact that Russian forces have suffered heavy losses in this war on the ground by now. Russians have lost two very senior military officials in this war as well. @dBSPL is providing good insight from time-to-time.

This is not to say that Russians are finished in Ukraine - 190,000 Russian troops are involved in Ukraine in the present. Additional forces include Belarusian troops, Wagner mercenaries, and Chechens. This force will not diminish anytime soon.

But Ukrainians look determined to fight back and inflicting losses left, right and center. This is surprising and admirable.



FairAndUnbiased said:


> another factual inaccuracy. Russia is a federal democracy that doesn't need far right paramilitaries like Azov Battalion to police its own cities. There are no Russian paramilitaries or militias like Azov Battalion.



Russians have called in Belarusian troops, Wagner mercenaries, and Chechens to fight in Ukraine. This war is stress-testing Russia unlike any other in its history since 1992.

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## Menthol

Laser said:


> *Third World War: According to the predictions, a great world war will be started between Two “Alifs” and Two “Geems”. Russia would attack on Western “Alif” and then it would surrender in front of China. Upon the destruction, Russia would ask the mercy from China. Later on One Geem would make alliance with Russia and China against rest of the “Alif”. Most lethal and Massive destructive weapons will wipe majority of the people from the earth. Finally the “Alif” against which alliance was made will totally be wiped out from the map of the world and its name will only persist in the books of History.*
> *
> View attachment 822564
> *
> is it going to happen ???????????



It's true!

There will be the great war as mentioned above.


But it's just saying about one war.

While actually there are two wars that are going to happen.


The first big war, as what happened today, will be ended with a big bang.

Then there will be the second great war not long after.


If the first war is the start of the great tribulation.

The second war is the end of the tribulation.

We are going to live and see it!


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501865330104225793

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## serenity

I read a few days back there were some suggestions and evidence that China is turning against Russia with certain moves. These were I think twitter posts. Does anyone remember them or have those links?

Trying to work out what is real and propaganda.


----------



## dBSPL

At the meeting in Turkey, the Ukrainian side offered to arrange a meeting between Putin and Zelensky. The way to the meeting can be opened.

— Russia | Kremlin


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501849401580531714

Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov: The meeting showed that there is nothing to replace the negotiations

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501867886142537731

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## Bengal71

Tamerlane said:


> Those who want a Russian expert to explain their strategy please read the following article. He says things like:
> 
> —They’re not surrounding cities completely on purpose to allow civilians to escape.
> 
> —They’re going to kill all the neo-Nazis. No prisoners.
> 
> —They’re going to kill the foreign mercenaries.
> 
> —Putin has ordered a harder line with regard to civilian deaths. The gloves are off.
> 
> The opinion of a professional about the special operation in Ukraine​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The opinion of a professional about the special operation in Ukraine (MUST READ!) | The Vineyard of the Saker
> 
> 
> A bird's eye view of the vineyard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thesaker.is



This was a good read. Thanks for sharing.

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## BHAN85

RescueRanger said:


> Russia is no longer going to participate in the Council of Europe - Russian Foreign Ministry.
> —
> Russia is returning to Cold War levels of diplomatic relations with Europe and the US.


This is worst than cold war, in the cold war USA had some respect for Mutual Assured Destruction doctrine.

Remember 1968 Prague Spring and how all West remain silent about that, and compare it to now.

Anyone would say MAD doctrine doesnt exists anymore, at least USA acts like if they could win a nuclear war against Russia.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501667513662423044

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501869969130274830

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501713392675004417


----------



## jamahir

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501867886142537731



USA and Turkey have no business in being "guarantors" of Ukraine in this conflict. Russia is right in rejecting it. This conflict is for securing Russia's security and expelling Nazis. I don't see why Zelensky will have objection specially to the latter. And if Zelensky will not accept to those demands then the sufferings of the Ukranians is on him. He may not mind being the puppet of NATO but what about he people his forces are holding hostage, not allowing to leave the cities and placing artillery and rocketry in civilian areas ?


----------



## Paul2

BHAN85 said:


> Anyone would say MAD doctrine doesnt exists anymore, at least USA acts like if they could win a nuclear war against Russia.



Because they can. If we believe that Russian maximum launch capacity is 1000 warheads in the best hypothetically possible scenario. It's not a lot for US alone, and if you take the whole of NATO, it's near nothing.

Remember, Russian missiles are targeted on US, some on China, some on Europe. Russian missiles in the far east can't target Europe, and their missiles in Europe can't reach most of USA besides Alaska. 550 of Russian warheads are 2nd strike only: submarines, and road mobile. They will out themselves when they stop to erect the TEL, or raise to the surface and wait for the launch command.

*At most, 450 warheads will be heading for North America, and Europe, with 3:1 split, if they don't want to save anything as a reserve.*


----------



## TNT

zartosht said:


> You must be getting paid by the post. Because only a person trying to cope would be spamming the forum with random
> spaaaaaaam of tweets. but ignore all the maps and the situation on the ground.. all to try and paint the western media narrative with absolutely 0 evidence.
> 
> talk about coping. Or getting paid to spread propaganda..... one of the 2


Of course he is getting paid. He is a poor Indonesian living on a poor island and working from home, making money by cheerleading for america. His other work is making fish traps so dont expect any intellectual debate, its why he avoids debating, just troll replies.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501871250955722755


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501805047977594882


----------



## V. Makarov

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> I recommend everyone to read* the book «Antifragilty» written by author Nicholas Taleb.*
> Its a profound book and yet so intuitive concept.
> 
> Basically there are systems in nature that are fragile, robust and third category: Antifragile, which are things, beings, systems, that not only survives during stress but in fact it THRIVES during stress. So much that if you remove stressors then a Antifragile system will simply become weak and fragile and dissolve. Antifragile systems MUST HAVE chaos and stress experiences in order to thrive.
> 
> Think about it; the human body and mind is essentialy a antifragile system. It only gets stronger by experiencing challenges. When a man get luxurious and lazy life, he simply becomes soft and weak.
> 
> *This is what i believe Russian leadership, especially Putin have understood. He simply is letting Russia feel pain and scorn, so that Russia learns to manage and weather it, making it stronger and more independent.*



At this point, you are just shooting in the dark in an attempt to explain why Putin took this initiative. I don't think he has anything to do with "strengthening" the people of Russia. Rather, he wants the opposite; a population disconnected and unaware of the West. 
If Putin was so adamant about strengthening Russia, why is the conventional military arm of the Russian forces in such a bad condition? To a point, where is has become a joke, and Western nations are scratching their heads trying to understand the complete collapse of their forces.

I think that the George Orwell's Animal Farm is much more applicable to the Russian oligarchs and the Putin himself, rather than the book you recommend. Imagine Putin, his esteemed generals, and the Russian oligarch billionaires sitting in a meeting:


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501864258723848199"We're not planning to attack other countries. We didn't even attack Ukraine."

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## Menthol

BHAN85 said:


> This is worst than cold war, in the cold war USA had some respect for Mutual Assured Destruction doctrine.
> 
> Remember 1968 Prague Spring and how all West remain silent about that, and compare it to now.
> 
> Anyone would say MAD doctrine doesnt exists anymore, at least USA acts like if they could win a nuclear war against Russia.



USA will believe that he is going to win the nuclear war.

Because without it, there will be no nuclear war.


----------



## serenity

Paul2 said:


> Because they can. If we believe that Russian maximum launch capacity is 1000 warheads in the best hypothetically possible scenario. It's not a lot for US alone, and if you take the whole of NATO, it's near nothing.
> 
> Remember, Russian missiles are targeted on US, some on China, some on Europe. Russian missiles in the far east can't target Europe, and their missiles in Europe can't reach most of USA besides Alaska. 550 of Russian warheads are 2nd strike only: submarines, and road mobile. They will out themselves when they stop to erect the TEL, or raise to the surface and wait for the launch command.
> 
> *At most, 450 warheads will be heading for North America, and Europe, with 3:1 split, if they don't want to save anything as a reserve.*



Not accurate. Russia's eastern based missiles can reach Europe through the poles. They can reach north Africa even.

Russia's western based missiles can reach USA again through poles. Shortest distance between Valdivostok and London is not as far as on a 2D map as you cannot project 3D spherical geometries onto 2D and with globe it is particularly misleading nearer to the poles.

Russia has over 2000 nukes.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501871897641996289Some Ukrainian soldiers and paramilitaries captured by the Russians


----------



## Paul2

serenity said:


> Not accurate. Russia's eastern based missiles can reach Europe through the poles. They can reach north Africa even.
> 
> Russia's western based missiles can reach USA again through poles. Shortest distance between Valdivostok and London is not as far as on a 2D map as you cannot project 3D spherical geometries onto 2D and with globe it is particularly misleading nearer to the poles.
> 
> Russia has over 2000 nukes.



I am very well aware of that, but the range suffers if they are fully loaded with MIRVs.

The range enough to reach Europe is only achievable with minimum amount of MIRVs, and adding, or removing them, and then reprogramming the missile is impossible in the field. Only R-36 can hit "anywhere in the world," with full complement of MIRVs, but it's likely they will be firing on where their units will be firing. 33rd rocket army's primary target is China. 31st rocket army on Europe, with some US capability. 27th - USA

Russian missile base placement makes it evident what base targets what.


----------



## Ich

LeGenD said:


> I see.
> 
> There is ample evidence of the fact that Russian forces have suffered heavy losses in this war on the ground by now. Russians have lost two very senior military officials in this war as well. @dBSPL is providing good insight from time-to-time.
> 
> This is not to say that Russians are finished in Ukraine - 190,000 Russian troops are involved in Ukraine in the present. Additional forces include Belarusian troops, Wagner mercenaries, and Chechens. This force will not diminish anytime soon.
> 
> But Ukrainians look determined to fight back and inflicting losses left, right and center. This is surprising and admirable



Well, numbers. 600 posts ago i wrote this:



Ich said:


> Me think that after encircling Kievv, Russia will block the Ukrain borders in the west. Then do other cities and pockets while still offering talks.




There will be more talks. Me think it was a good move from Turkey to offer a neutral place for talks. The independence of Donezk and Lugansk in their original borders wil not be taken off the table. Russia also wants the complete coast, but it ony will be Mariupol and the coast between Krim and Donezk what will be left of russias plan.

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## serenity

Paul2 said:


> I am very well aware of that, but the range suffers if they are fully loaded with MIRVs.
> 
> The range enough to reach Europe is only achievable with minimum amount of MIRVs, and adding, or removing them, and then reprogramming the missile is impossible in the field.
> 
> Russian missile base placement makes it evident what base targets what.



I don't think anyone should consider that Russia is a nuclear weakling and so we can take the risk to prod it. I don't know what the point of this conversation is. Russia can nuke USA and Europe and everyone else to dust and there is no sense in doubting this and trying it out.

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## TNT

Laser said:


> *Third World War: According to the predictions, a great world war will be started between Two “Alifs” and Two “Geems”. Russia would attack on Western “Alif” and then it would surrender in front of China. Upon the destruction, Russia would ask the mercy from China. Later on One Geem would make alliance with Russia and China against rest of the “Alif”. Most lethal and Massive destructive weapons will wipe majority of the people from the earth. Finally the “Alif” against which alliance was made will totally be wiped out from the map of the world and its name will only persist in the books of History.*
> *
> View attachment 822564
> *
> is it going to happen ???????????



Frankly don't take these so called predictions seriously. They are not written by a Prophet or not from Allah. These are mostly by old persian peers who had nothing better to do. Infact fortune telling and future prediction is haram in Islam as everything is done by Allah at His own will.

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## Orange

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501880851319173121


Madni Bappa said:


> Ask her if she wants to do 90 day fiance with me 🤣لماو



You should mark email to Ukrainian Embassy!


----------



## Paul2

serenity said:


> I don't think anyone should consider that Russia is a nuclear weakling and so we can take the risk to prod it. I don't know what the point of this conversation is. Russia can nuke USA and Europe and everyone else to dust and there is no sense in doubting this and trying it out.



There is a very good point to this conversation, it is because we are nearing the point where actual use of nuclear weapons is very close to reality.

A nuclear exchange in between Russia, and US will result in US getting solid thrashing, no doubt, but Russia will end its existence as a state, given Moscow turning into a crater. Russia is more politically centralised as a state than even China. China can lose Beijing, and then either Shanghai, or GZ, or CQ will eagerly run to take up the flag, but in case of Russia, there are no other political centres.

If a nuclear launch will not be the reason for Europe to declare an offensive war on Russia, then I don't know what else will be.


----------



## kingQamaR

They have literally been in the same spot for 11-12 days and Kyiv is not far from the Belarus border where they crossed. So much for all that talk about the Russian game plan


----------



## Orange

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501882993358647303

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501884525793746944

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## TNT

It seems another country that will benefit alot from this war is Turkey. Erdogan have played smart and positioned himself to benefit from both sides. Not so long ago the same american cheerleaders were abusing erdogan and making fun of him, its evident he wanted to raise the stature of his country and now everyone sees it clearly. 
After this war, it seems Turkey will get a good chunk of rebuilding ukraine infrastructure and defence. Due to their neutral stance, its also possible Turkey will help modernize Russian military as well and we may see collaborations. Turkey will definitely achieve economic and technology success, they might get engine technology as well. Well played Turkey.

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## Vergennes

Meanwhile the russian army has released a video titled "Logistics support for a special military operation"

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## serenity

Paul2 said:


> There is a very good point to this conversation, it is because we are nearing the point where actual use of nuclear weapons is very close to reality.
> 
> A nuclear exchange in between Russia, and US will result in US getting solid thrashing, no doubt, but Russia will end its existence as a state, given Moscow turning into a crater. Russia is more politically centralised as a state than even China. China can lose Beijing, and then either Shanghai, or GZ, or CQ will eagerly run to take up the flag, but in case of Russia, there are no other political centres.
> 
> If a nuclear launch will not be the reason for Europe to declare an offensive war on Russia, then I don't know what else will be.



In that case Russia would end the existence of Washington DC, New York, LA, SF, and every other major US city. They have over 2000 warheads. They can spend all the high yield ones on Europe and over 1000 for the US.

This is more than solid thrashing my friend. Even half of this would end the US forever not just to come back from.

Russia is the world's largest landmass country. Lots of it is total wilderness. It could be targeted by US but like you said, Russia stands to lose three or 20 major cities and towns and US and Europe stands to lose multi trillion dollar economies and over 20 important cities. Let's hope no one ever uses nuclear weapons.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501885852426940418


----------



## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> Meanwhile the russian army has released a video titled "Logistics support for a special military operation"


The propaganda is strong in this video.

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## Vergennes

RescueRanger said:


> The propaganda is strong in this video.



Russia is badly losing the information/propaganda war,they have to catch up. Of course the point of this video is to show the strong logistical support Russian armed forces are benefiting of.

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> Russia is badly losing the information/propaganda war,they have to catch up. Of course the point of this video is to show the strong logistical support Russian armed forces are benefiting of.



Russia has logistical support?

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## sammuel

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501871897641996289Some Ukrainian soldiers and paramilitaries captured by the Russians



They are forced to say " let Ukraine be a part of Russia. "

Seriously out of order , what does Russia gain from posting such images ?


~

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## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> Russia is badly losing the information/propaganda war,they have to catch up. Of course the point of this video is to show the strong logistical support Russian armed forces are benefiting of.


My favourite part are the beds. 😂

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## dBSPL

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501884525793746944


Better resolution:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501887889478717442

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## newb3e

propaganda posted by clowns followers the war should have ended now and Clown should have become ruler of ukr and russia! but that jewish clown and his minions still posting just videos and nothing else!

dont be panjsheris and fight on tweeper fight the real fight jewish clown!

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## Foinikas

Lol I just saw this on Facebook

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## Menthol

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501842243115790339
> "The Ukrainian heavy artillery, which marked the targets with Bayraktar Tb2, finished the job." This indicates that Ukrainian artillery units have now achieved fully integrated operational capability with tactical drones. A very important talent acquisition for the Ukrainian army.
> 
> "It is understood from the Russian radio conversations that the 6th Armored Regiment was almost destroyed and its commander(Colonel Zakharov ) was also killed." Another disgraceful event for the Russian army. How can the entire convoy be lost together with the regiment commander... the explanation for ignoring such a tactical error/technical defect is something that needs to be clarified with a military investigation.
> 
> Russian radio record:
> - 6th Regiment, I can't report right now, there are too many casualties, they are waiting, we were ambushed, the Regimental Commander died, I'm looking at the rest.
> -Now get everyone together and then you're reporting to me, got it?
> -They shoot from there with Artillery, Tank, UCAV, as far as I understand Bayraktar is flying.
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian intelligence anouncment about their ambush:
> "The 6th Armored Regiment of the 90th Tank Division advancing in the direction of Borvary was largely destroyed. The commander of the regiment, Colonel Zakharov, was killed. The 256th Mechanized Infantry regiment suffered heavy losses. Russian troops withdrew."



Russia's military tactic is outdated.

It's great on paper, it's great on military specification, but they don't know how to use it.

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501889462636527617



Another SU25 downed,pilot KIA.

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## dBSPL

2022 Ukrainian war? At least six Su-25s, four Su-34 and two Su-30s in two weeks. And don't ask about helicopters.

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## Type59

sammuel said:


> They are forced to say " let Ukraine be a part of Russia. "
> 
> Seriously out of order , what does Russia gain from posting such images ?
> 
> 
> ~


Russian at start of war refrained from publishing photos or videos of captured or destroyed UA forces. Now "hearts and minds" policy has been abandoned. Once enough civilians have been evacuated, they gonna drop 9000kg bombs on urban areas. We might see "FOAB" being deployed.


----------



## sammuel

~

No good news on the talks in turkey :


Ukraine foreign minister says Russian officials ‘live in their own reality’ after talks fail​









Ukraine foreign minister says Russian officials 'live in their own reality' after talks fail


Ukraine Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba hit back at claims made Thursday by Russia's foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, saying the leadership in Moscow "live in their own reality."




www.cnbc.com

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## dBSPL

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> No good news on the talks in turkey :
> 
> 
> Ukraine foreign minister says Russian officials ‘live in their own reality’ after talks fail​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine foreign minister says Russian officials 'live in their own reality' after talks fail
> 
> 
> Ukraine Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba hit back at claims made Thursday by Russia's foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, saying the leadership in Moscow "live in their own reality."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com


They expect Ukraine to give up on Crimea and the Black Sea and recognize the independence of Eastern Ukraine. They also want Ukraine to be disarmed, to be supervised by Russia, and take the guarentee that it will not join a military or political union.

In short, unacceptable conditions are put forward. Russia will not give the green light for peace until it achieves satisfactory results on the ground. Because if it cannot save its face, Russia's neo-Eurasian policies will dead.

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## Menthol

Vergennes said:


> "Yes but if it could have been avoided if Ukraine surrendered and accepted Russian demands!!". Yes it could have been avoided at the first place if Russia didn't invade Ukraine with the most absurds casus belli ever.
> 
> As always,those who romanticize war aren't those who are losing family members in conflicts,have never seen real combat and are sitting comfortably behind their computer,their only real combat experience being battlefield or call of duty.
> 
> (Just some humor for a bit of a change)
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501756652483190786



Yup.

And not to mention how they are crying for one girl dead, but it's okay for the dead of 70 people during the flower revolution years ago.

Heart and sanity can so easy to change.

It's like saying violence is bad, 100% so bad!!! But one minute later he is in a brawl with someone.



sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> No good news on the talks in turkey :
> 
> 
> Ukraine foreign minister says Russian officials ‘live in their own reality’ after talks fail​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine foreign minister says Russian officials 'live in their own reality' after talks fail
> 
> 
> Ukraine Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba hit back at claims made Thursday by Russia's foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, saying the leadership in Moscow "live in their own reality."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com



Their own reality, just like our own reality.

The empire of lies!

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## Orange

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501895526924623877


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501897967124496389
So... it means Russia doesn't have much to show ? If they had,they would. 🤔

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## RescueRanger

Menthol said:


> Russia's military tactic is outdated.
> 
> It's great on paper, it's great on military specification, but they don't know how to use it.


another problem is Russia has a serious issue with C2 which many are ignoring is this:

Russia has a serious problem of communication - they are allegedly relying of unencrypted baofeng and Motorola hf radios which are notoriously unreliable in mission critical communication.

Baofeng UV 82HP





Secondly the encrypted radios that Russia do have apparently rely of 4G enabled BTS (Base Tower Stations) - as Russians have targeted Ukrainian Teleco BTS - they have discovered they cannot use their shiny encrypted radios.

Russian Encrypted VHF/UHF Azart Radio:
Azart 187-P1




The Azart a sixth-generation digital tactical SDR with built-in encryption designed to provide Russian troops with secure and jam-resistant communications.

It operates in the very high frequency (VHF)/ultra high frequency (UHF) bands, has a range of 18 km in ground communications depending on configuration, can be used as a repeater station and can utilise GLONASS or GPS to provide positioning.

R168-25UE:
The Russians also utilise the R168-25UE at a battalion level which can provide a range of up to 300km depending on configuration:





The Russians and indeed the Ukrainians too have been utilising satellite phones and ordinary cellphones to communicate.

Videos from the Russian War Report Wargonzo shows Russian commanders using the Thurya Sat Seleve:





So why is there such a lack of encrypted military grade communication kit in the Russian military? Reading some Russian radio forums shows that there is a case of rampant corruption in the delivery and procurement of the Azart family of radios in the Russian army:

Link the the forum for your own reading pleasure: http://www.radioscanner.ru/forum/topic48460-2.html

An account provided by a captured Russian soldier states, ‘The officers started stationing themselves further and further away from the fighting … they are out of radio range at this point, and no one can contact them’.

The soldier proceeds to explain that a lack of long-range communications equipment was preventing anyone from contacting the Central Command of the deployed forces.

It follows that some Russian soldiers may have resorted to the use of mobile phones to communicate with officers and each other in order to gain some situational awareness.

Radios like the *BaoFeng UV-82HP* will be relatively easy for electronic warfare (EW) practitioners to exploit. Firstly, their lack of discernible military-grade COMSEC/TRANSEC means the radios should be relatively susceptible to straightforward jamming. 

Secondly, this lack of COMSEC/TRANSEC could make it easy to feed false or misleading traffic into networks depending on these radios. This could pay tactical dividends for the Ukrainians, allowing them to sow disorganisation, doubt and demoralisation into Russian units.

It is highly likely these radios are being used for squad communications at the tactical edge by dismounted infantry. Attacking networks at the tactical edge using these radios could help blunt or slow Russian manoeuvres.

Moreover, transmissions from these radios could be relatively easy to detect using rudimentary communications intelligence (COMINT) equipment. 

Once these transmissions are detected, COMINT systems could be used to follow the movement of the transmissions, and hence the movements of troops.

The communication of the Russians is so vulnerable that I was able to pick up a Russian transmission using SDR software where Ukrainians had hijacked comms and played the Ukrainian National Anthem over their transmission:






SndUp | Post info


Record, upload, share! SndUp is a social network, for audio! We enable you to upload audio clips and share them with the world. Sharing your talent is simple!



sndup.net

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## Primus

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501897967124496389
> So... it means Russia doesn't have much to show ? If they had,they would. 🤔


Or perhaps they didnt film it


----------



## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> 2022 Ukrainian war? At least six Su-25s, four Su-34 and two Su-30s in two weeks. And don't ask about helicopters.


Breaking: following heavy losses to aerial assets - this previously unseen image shows Russian reinforcements from specialised fighter jets:

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## dBSPL

Orange said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501895526924623877


Most of people probably remember that this twitter account is one of the well-known trolls of the Syrian war. Even in this message, she talking so illogical.

Ukraine is not gaining anything. Because it has nothing to gain. With every Russian military convoy that enters the country, it is constantly losing. The occupying party is Russia. In other words, it is the side that should lead its troops into the defender side and manage its logistics. What the Ukrainian side needs to do is to slow down the invasion and stop it wherever possible.

In addition, just two weeks ago, exactly same type twitter accounts found that Russia's 'extraordinary' military power cannot be compared with Ukraine's, but 'for some reason', recently changed their minds, as if two equal military powers were colliding. On one side is Russia, the world's largest ground army, and on the other, poor Ukraine, which has not had a single western jet in the past 8 years after its air force was completely destroyed in 2014.

Are they blowing down their own bridges? So what, blowed bridge may hold an enemy convoy for a day, and that day can give the time to push it back by defender position. Vietnamese did something different? This is a war, you have to use anything that will disrupt the logistics of the enemy, slow down its advance.

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## Menthol

Clutch said:


> Unfortunately the NATO Western parties are not interested in a peaceful resolution right now. This is their planned knee-jerk response by Russia and they will fight Russia to the last Ukrainian.
> 
> Zelensky is playing the role perfectly as the "hero" who never surrenders.



They will see and make a judgment on how good the Russian military is.

But it turns out Russia's military is weak and outdated.

It could be even if Russia is winning in Ukraine, it will lead to greater war which is USA and its allies will be brave enough to invade Russia.



RescueRanger said:


> another problem is Russia has a serious issue with C2 which many are ignoring is this:
> 
> Russia has a serious problem of communication - they are allegedly relying of unencrypted baofeng and Motorola hf radios which are notoriously unreliable in mission critical communication.
> 
> Baofeng UV 82HP
> View attachment 822621
> 
> Secondly the encrypted radios that Russia do have apparently rely of 4G enabled BTS (Base Tower Stations) - as Russians have targeted Ukrainian Teleco BTS - they have discovered they cannot use their shiny encrypted radios.
> 
> Russian Encrypted VHF/UHF Azart Radio:
> Azart 187-P1
> View attachment 822623
> 
> The Azart a sixth-generation digital tactical SDR with built-in encryption designed to provide Russian troops with secure and jam-resistant communications.
> 
> It operates in the very high frequency (VHF)/ultra high frequency (UHF) bands, has a range of 18 km in ground communications depending on configuration, can be used as a repeater station and can utilise GLONASS or GPS to provide positioning.
> 
> R168-25UE:
> The Russians also utilise the R168-25UE at a battalion level which can provide a range of up to 300km depending on configuration:
> View attachment 822622
> 
> 
> The Russians and indeed the Ukrainians too have been utilising satellite phones and ordinary cellphones to communicate.
> 
> Videos from the Russian War Report Wargonzo shows Russian commanders using the Thurya Sat Seleve:
> View attachment 822624
> 
> 
> So why is there such a lack of encrypted military grade communication kit in the Russian military? Reading some Russian radio forums shows that there is a case of rampant corruption in the delivery and procurement of the Azart family of radios in the Russian army:
> 
> Link the the forum for your own reading pleasure: http://www.radioscanner.ru/forum/topic48460-2.html
> 
> An account provided by a captured Russian soldier states, ‘The officers started stationing themselves further and further away from the fighting … they are out of radio range at this point, and no one can contact them’.
> 
> The soldier proceeds to explain that a lack of long-range communications equipment was preventing anyone from contacting the Central Command of the deployed forces.
> 
> It follows that some Russian soldiers may have resorted to the use of mobile phones to communicate with officers and each other in order to gain some situational awareness.
> 
> Radios like the *BaoFeng UV-82HP* will be relatively easy for electronic warfare (EW) practitioners to exploit. Firstly, their lack of discernible military-grade COMSEC/TRANSEC means the radios should be relatively susceptible to straightforward jamming.
> 
> Secondly, this lack of COMSEC/TRANSEC could make it easy to feed false or misleading traffic into networks depending on these radios. This could pay tactical dividends for the Ukrainians, allowing them to sow disorganisation, doubt and demoralisation into Russian units.
> 
> It is highly likely these radios are being used for squad communications at the tactical edge by dismounted infantry. Attacking networks at the tactical edge using these radios could help blunt or slow Russian manoeuvres.
> 
> Moreover, transmissions from these radios could be relatively easy to detect using rudimentary communications intelligence (COMINT) equipment.
> 
> Once these transmissions are detected, COMINT systems could be used to follow the movement of the transmissions, and hence the movements of troops.
> 
> The communication of the Russians is so vulnerable that I was able to pick up a Russian transmission using SDR software where Ukrainians had hijacked comms and played the Ukrainian National Anthem over their transmission:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SndUp | Post info
> 
> 
> Record, upload, share! SndUp is a social network, for audio! We enable you to upload audio clips and share them with the world. Sharing your talent is simple!
> 
> 
> 
> sndup.net



Uncomparable to USA military.

USA military has a command center with live satellite or drone images of the entire battlefield.

And each soldier on the ground is backed with an airstrike.

USA has the eye and tools needed for every situation.

One good thing about USA, USA doesn't want to take the risk, try to minimize the loss.

If it can strike heavily at the beginning to destroy the enemy, USA will do it.

It's better to lose hundreds of missiles rather than one tank on the ground.

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## Rafi

The Ukranians have done well, but the destruction of infrastructure will cost hundreds of billions of dollars to repair.

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## dBSPL

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 822626


Some say it cant get detect by radars because the Iman power. It is 7th generation.

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> Some say it cant get detect by radars because the Iman power. It is 7th generation.


😂


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## Vergennes

What Russia wanted to avoid is just happening before our eyes.

Putin bet on a clean and swift operation,the quick surrender of Ukraine and eastern Ukraine rallying on the Russian cause,towns falling one by one,welcoming Russian troops as liberators,a quick war that would limit the worldwide outrage and the world's response to the Russian invasion as well as the cost of the operation. (in terms of money and human lives)

The exact opposite happened. Ukraine is resisting,more united than ever,majority Russian speaking towns are the ones resisting the most to Russian assaults,Zelensky didn't surrender,Ukrainians living under Russian occupation haven't welcomed Russian as liberators,but are protesting against the occupier.

Meanwhile the operation is pretty much stalling,what Putin didn't want. Because the longer the operation lasts,the higher the cost is in Russian lives (already thousands killed,even more wounded....) and for Russian finances. (You've got to fund that 200K strong force.... and they can't forever).

The longer the conflict lasts,the more destructions Ukraine will suffer,higher the international outrage would be and higher the sanctions would be,higher the international support for Ukraine would be...

What has Putin achieved so far is ruining Russia's economy,turning Russia into a pariah state on par with North Korea,getting Europe and NATO even more united,making more and neutral countries wanting to join NATO (NATO expension which the Russians do not want) and last but not least showing the whole world the questionnable performance and quality of the Russian armed forces on the ground.

@LeGenD @RescueRanger

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## vizier

Russian demands for outcome of the war seems to be not clear. For example Ukraine giving high autonomy to Donetsk Luhansk and Crimea region(similar to north Iraq) and accepts Russian bases military presence there with non aggression packt and non militarized zone around Azov sea region connecting Donetsk with Crimea. This gives those strategic Azov sea area to Russian control. But If putin wants whole black sea control that is another issue.
In return maybe some sanctions can be lifted from Russia as well depending on the bargain rolling back the situation as much as possible before the war conditions. It is easy to disband azov battalion and similar groups and full iaea control on Ukraine future nuclear activities also non nato membership guarantee. But what are Russian terms.full scale submission or demilitarization and control of whole black sea coast that would be very hard to accept unless Ukr is totally defeated costing high both sides especially the civilians trapped in cities.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88



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## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> What Russia wanted to avoid is just happening before our eyes.
> 
> Putin bet on a clean and swift operation,the quick surrender of Ukraine and eastern Ukraine rallying on the Russian cause,towns falling one by one,welcoming Russian troops as liberators,a quick war that would limit the worldwide outrage and the world's response to the Russian invasion as well as the cost of the operation. (in terms of money and human lives)
> 
> The exact opposite happened. Ukraine is resisting,more united than ever,majority Russian speaking towns are the ones resisting the most to Russian assaults,Zelensky didn't surrender,Ukrainians living under Russian occupation haven't welcomed Russian as liberators,but are protesting against the occupier.
> 
> Meanwhile the operation is pretty much stalling,what Putin didn't want. Because the longer the operation lasts,the higher the cost is in Russian lives (already thousands killed,even more wounded....) and for Russian finances. (You've got to fund that 200K strong force.... and they can't forever).
> 
> The longer the conflict lasts,the more destructions Ukraine will suffer,higher the international outrage would be and higher the sanctions would be,higher the international support for Ukraine would be...
> 
> What has Putin achieved so far is ruining Russia's economy,turning Russia into a pariah state on par with North Korea,getting Europe and NATO even more united,making more and neutral countries wanting to join NATO (NATO expension which the Russians do not want) and last but not least showing the whole world the questionnable performance and quality of the Russian armed forces on the ground.
> 
> @LeGenD @RescueRanger


Very well said and personally Russia should accept the off ramp being provided during negotiations.

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## Invicta

RescueRanger said:


> another problem is Russia has a serious issue with C2 which many are ignoring is this:
> 
> Russia has a serious problem of communication - they are allegedly relying of unencrypted baofeng and Motorola hf radios which are notoriously unreliable in mission critical communication.
> 
> Baofeng UV 82HP
> View attachment 822621
> 
> Secondly the encrypted radios that Russia do have apparently rely of 4G enabled BTS (Base Tower Stations) - as Russians have targeted Ukrainian Teleco BTS - they have discovered they cannot use their shiny encrypted radios.
> 
> Russian Encrypted VHF/UHF Azart Radio:
> Azart 187-P1
> View attachment 822623
> 
> The Azart a sixth-generation digital tactical SDR with built-in encryption designed to provide Russian troops with secure and jam-resistant communications.
> 
> It operates in the very high frequency (VHF)/ultra high frequency (UHF) bands, has a range of 18 km in ground communications depending on configuration, can be used as a repeater station and can utilise GLONASS or GPS to provide positioning.
> 
> R168-25UE:
> The Russians also utilise the R168-25UE at a battalion level which can provide a range of up to 300km depending on configuration:
> View attachment 822622
> 
> 
> The Russians and indeed the Ukrainians too have been utilising satellite phones and ordinary cellphones to communicate.
> 
> Videos from the Russian War Report Wargonzo shows Russian commanders using the Thurya Sat Seleve:
> View attachment 822624
> 
> 
> So why is there such a lack of encrypted military grade communication kit in the Russian military? Reading some Russian radio forums shows that there is a case of rampant corruption in the delivery and procurement of the Azart family of radios in the Russian army:
> 
> Link the the forum for your own reading pleasure: http://www.radioscanner.ru/forum/topic48460-2.html
> 
> An account provided by a captured Russian soldier states, ‘The officers started stationing themselves further and further away from the fighting … they are out of radio range at this point, and no one can contact them’.
> 
> The soldier proceeds to explain that a lack of long-range communications equipment was preventing anyone from contacting the Central Command of the deployed forces.
> 
> It follows that some Russian soldiers may have resorted to the use of mobile phones to communicate with officers and each other in order to gain some situational awareness.
> 
> Radios like the *BaoFeng UV-82HP* will be relatively easy for electronic warfare (EW) practitioners to exploit. Firstly, their lack of discernible military-grade COMSEC/TRANSEC means the radios should be relatively susceptible to straightforward jamming.
> 
> Secondly, this lack of COMSEC/TRANSEC could make it easy to feed false or misleading traffic into networks depending on these radios. This could pay tactical dividends for the Ukrainians, allowing them to sow disorganisation, doubt and demoralisation into Russian units.
> 
> It is highly likely these radios are being used for squad communications at the tactical edge by dismounted infantry. Attacking networks at the tactical edge using these radios could help blunt or slow Russian manoeuvres.
> 
> Moreover, transmissions from these radios could be relatively easy to detect using rudimentary communications intelligence (COMINT) equipment.
> 
> Once these transmissions are detected, COMINT systems could be used to follow the movement of the transmissions, and hence the movements of troops.
> 
> *The communication of the Russians is so vulnerable that I was able to pick up a Russian transmission using SDR software where Ukrainians had hijacked comms and played the Ukrainian National Anthem over their transmission:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SndUp | Post info
> 
> 
> Record, upload, share! SndUp is a social network, for audio! We enable you to upload audio clips and share them with the world. Sharing your talent is simple!
> 
> 
> 
> sndup.net


And I enjoyed listening to it. This just confirms how much overrated the Russian military has been all these years. Don't get me wrong no country even the mighty USA cannot take Russia head on but these small conflicts define and establish a precedent, Russia and Russian commanders have been seriously a let down.

People on this forum were comparing USA in Iraq vs Russian progression what they always conveniently forget is how USA was fighting 1000s of miles away from USA mainland and still managed to maintain logistics/communication network etc. Russia is fighting in its backyard and struggling to keep a lid on thing.

I heard an ex-Royal Army logistics man on a podcast and he was very right in saying that the Ukrainians don't need to target everything in the Russian convoys, they just need to use the Turkish drones to take out the actual support vehicles, fuel and ammo carriers.

An army marches on its Stomach - something Putin should have learned from Napoleon.

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## SIPRA

A severe global geopolitical conflict between US/West and China/Russia was in the offing, for quite some time, in somewhat covert form. It had to take an an overt manifestation; so it has happened, now, in the form of this Russia-Ukraine War. The world has changed from now onward.

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## TheNoob

Goritoes said:


> I was actually arguing with @WebMaster regarding the same issue, your question is subjective as from your POV my post adds no value but from many it does add, as It's a personal observation and a hit to the Propaganda which we see on Social media including PDF which is flooded with one sided narrative. So yes you delete the post of constructive Sarcasm but it will just strengthen my argument that PDF is pushing a very limited and selective narrative (As usual) and the forum I know where you are free to post constructive critics/Arguments/sarcasm is dead.



This.
I would like to think that legend is just getting old and his sharpness has dulled.

Personally would agree with you to whats happening in this thread though.


----------



## coffee_cup

Diesel prices skyrocketing to EUR 2,39 per liter.

They are definitely gonna go up!

This is insane and Harder times ahead...

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1 | Sad Sad:
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## mmr

Rafi said:


> The Ukranians have done well, but the destruction of infrastructure will cost hundreds of billions of dollars to repair.











Use Russian money to rebuild Ukraine, says bank boss


In a BBC interview, the Ukraine central bank boss proposes a list of extra financial sanctions on Russia.



www.bbc.com





Use Russian money to rebuild Ukraine, says bank boss​

Reactions: Love Love:
1 | Wow Wow:
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## Invicta

Vergennes said:


> What Russia wanted to avoid is just happening before our eyes.
> 
> Putin bet on a clean and swift operation,the quick surrender of Ukraine and eastern Ukraine rallying on the Russian cause,towns falling one by one,welcoming Russian troops as liberators,a quick war that would limit the worldwide outrage and the world's response to the Russian invasion as well as the cost of the operation. (in terms of money and human lives)
> 
> The exact opposite happened. Ukraine is resisting,more united than ever,majority Russian speaking towns are the ones resisting the most to Russian assaults,Zelensky didn't surrender,Ukrainians living under Russian occupation haven't welcomed Russian as liberators,but are protesting against the occupier.
> 
> Meanwhile the operation is pretty much stalling,what Putin didn't want. Because the longer the operation lasts,the higher the cost is in Russian lives (already thousands killed,even more wounded....) and for Russian finances. (You've got to fund that 200K strong force.... and they can't forever).
> 
> The longer the conflict lasts,the more destructions Ukraine will suffer,higher the international outrage would be and higher the sanctions would be,higher the international support for Ukraine would be...
> 
> What has Putin achieved so far is ruining Russia's economy,turning Russia into a pariah state on par with North Korea,getting Europe and NATO even more united,making more and neutral countries wanting to join NATO (NATO expension which the Russians do not want) and last but not least showing the whole world the questionnable performance and quality of the Russian armed forces on the ground.
> 
> @LeGenD @RescueRanger


I think we as the West have overplayed our hand in eagerness as well. If the situation was not ending up in a stalemate there could be peace on the horizon. 
To start off with all the sanctions that we can implement have been implemented, there is nothing else we can do but to arm Ukraine defensively or get involved directly - direct involvement will not happen as thing can spiral out of control and into WW3.

However, when Russia invaded a first tranche of sanctions should have been brought in and Russia should have been warned to get back to the table and pursue peace with a warning on further sanctions. With the current resistance they would have seen how their plan would have failed and would have come to a compromise.

Right now their backs are against the wall - they need to have some positive take away otherwise Putin will lose public trust and that is why Russia will keep its unrealistic demands up in negotiations. 

Unfortunately we are where are but it must be a lesson for the future.

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## Rafi

I think the Indians should really worry, upto 75% of their military is Soviet or Russian, and it has not performed well.

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## LeGenD

serenity said:


> In that case Russia would end the existence of Washington DC, New York, LA, SF, and every other major US city. They have over 2000 warheads. They can spend all the high yield ones on Europe and over 1000 for the US.
> 
> This is more than solid thrashing my friend. Even half of this would end the US forever not just to come back from.
> 
> Russia is the world's largest landmass country. Lots of it is total wilderness. It could be targeted by US but like you said, Russia stands to lose three or 20 major cities and towns and US and Europe stands to lose multi trillion dollar economies and over 20 important cities. Let's hope no one ever uses nuclear weapons.


Russia has landmass but how Russian population base is distributed across it? This is the point. USA can eliminate anything of value in Russia; from Russian military positions to ports. USN will be directed to wipe out Russian navy as well. Everything is marked.

American military communication networks are designed with nuclear war in mind. They keep a fleet in every ocean as well. Survivors can regroup and rebuild USA in Canada or another country if necessary. Russians cannot take out Americans around the world.

Anyways, this is discussion for another time.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501911408644177925

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## Thinker3

LeGenD said:


> Russia has landmass but how Russian population base is distributed?
> 
> USA can eliminate anything of value in Russia; from Russia military positions to ports. Everything is marked.
> 
> Americans have numerous overseas bases and a fleet in every ocean. Survivors can rebuild USA in Canada or another if necessary.
> 
> Russia are much more concentrated in their activities and cannot take out Americans everywhere.


In case of Nuclear exchange there would be nothing left in USA or Russia to rebuild for hundreds of years.



LeGenD said:


> Russia has landmass but how Russian population base is distributed across it? This is the point. USA can eliminate anything of value in Russia; from Russian military positions to ports. USN will be directed to wipe out Russian navy as well. Everything is marked.
> 
> American military communication networks are designed with nuclear war in mind. They keep a fleet in every ocean as well. Survivors can regroup and rebuild USA in Canada or another country if necessary. Russians cannot take out Americans around the world.
> 
> Anyways, this is discussion for another time.


Also what makes you think Russia will not nuke Canada? They will, along with UK, Europe and all of the countries they recently made list of.

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## Foinikas

I saw this from a friend's post

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## sammuel

dBSPL said:


> They expect Ukraine to give up on Crimea and the Black Sea and recognize the independence of Eastern Ukraine. They also want Ukraine to be disarmed, to be supervised by Russia, and take the guarentee that it will not join a military or political union.
> 
> In short, unacceptable conditions are put forward. Russia will not give the green light for peace until it achieves satisfactory results on the ground. Because if it cannot save its face, Russia's neo-Eurasian policies will dead.



Yesterday i was more optimistic that some sort of a deal could be reached.

Those here who tried to justify Putin argued , that Ukraine joining NATO was the main issue here. But Ukraine already indicated that they are willing to compromise on that.

Every day that passes , where no deal is reached, and this avoidable war continues , give reason to suspect that Putin's intention are much more sinister .

Though it is hard to say exactly what his intentions are . Who knows what goes on in the head of a dictator.

~

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## LeGenD

Thinker3 said:


> In case of Nuclear exchange there would be nothing left in USA or Russia to rebuild for hundreds of years.
> 
> 
> Also what makes you think Russia will not nuke Canada? They will, along with UK, Europe and all of the countries they recently made list of.


They will nuke empty forests and mountains as well? Much of Canada is unpopulated.

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## coffee_cup

Thinker3 said:


> Also what makes you think Russia will not nuke Canada? They will along with UK, Europe and all of the countries they recently made list of.


This!

And the whole world will have to face the consequences for this for decades to come (that is, if anyone survives at all).

Even explosion of one single nuclear weapon anywhere in the world has after effects everywhere and here we are speaking about 100s and 1000s!

God have mercy on us all!

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## Paul2

RescueRanger said:


> Videos from the Russian War Report Wargonzo shows Russian commanders using the Thurya Sat Seleve:



I wonder if UAE gives Russian comms to the US.



RescueRanger said:


> It is highly likely these radios are being used for squad communications at the tactical edge by dismounted infantry. Attacking networks at the tactical edge using these radios could help blunt or slow Russian manoeuvres.



Handheld HF is unlikely for squad manoeuvres. UHF radios are much more practical in the field, and their batteries last like 10 times more. It's an ad-hoc long range replacement of relay stations which Ukrainians been locating since first days of war. HF is not what you use to avoid detection. VHF 400Mhz+ is much more safe due to weaker, and wider signal



RescueRanger said:


> Moreover, transmissions from these radios could be relatively easy to detect using rudimentary communications intelligence (COMINT) equipment.



Detection is not everything, you need to know exactly which radio is used for relaying orders, or used by high rank officers In case of Russia, it's _the presence_ of encrypted radio comms which outs them.

Ukrainians probably already got all of their radio maps, and know which systems, and frequencies are used by Russian chain of command.

Say, they hear encrypted TX on 20.705, and already know it's Russian generals talking because nobody else in the regular C&C has encrypted radio sets with 100W+ power.

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## Thinker3

LeGenD said:


> They will nuke empty forests and mountains as well? Much of Canada is unpopulated.


Nuclear radiation and radiation wind's will make whole area impossible to live in for hundreds of years.

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## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501911408644177925


Exactly. But don’t count the Russians out just yet, they haven’t revealed their trump card. 

Legend has it that there is exists material so durable, so rugged, it’s unlike another know to man.

Presenting Russia’s secret weapon against ATGM - something that puts trophy to shame:

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## RescueRanger

Foinikas said:


> I saw this from a friend's post
> 
> View attachment 822648
> 
> 
> View attachment 822649


I’m sorry maybe I’m getting decrepit in my old ag. But how do those images show fakes? What’s fake?


----------



## Foinikas

RescueRanger said:


> I’m sorry maybe I’m getting decrepit in my old ag. But how do those images show fakes? What’s fake?


Actress pretending to be a victim. That's a fake. A staged event.


----------



## sammuel

Foinikas said:


> Actress pretending to be a victim. That's a fake. A staged event.



And you know this how ?

~


----------



## Foinikas

sammuel said:


> And you know this how ?
> 
> ~


I don't. I posted this,that was from what I guess,researched by others. So you can research it too and find if it's true or not.

It might be true,it might be fake. But there's something going on about the whole "Russia bombed a hospital" thing.


----------



## bobo6661

Foinikas said:


> I don't. I posted this,that was from what I guess,researched by others. So you can research it too and find if it's true or not.
> 
> It might be true,it might be fake. But there's something going on about the whole "Russia bombed a hospital" thing.


So you posted 2 pictures(i dont realy see whats fake in those) that dont mean anything, make a statement and tell us to belive it becose someone somewhere said something ... Its not that i dont belive you propaganda is high on boths sides but atleast give a link to source.


----------



## Foinikas

bobo6661 said:


> So you posted 2 pictures(i dont realy see whats fake in those) that dont mean anything, make a statement and tell us to belive it becose someone somewhere said something ...


Did you read what the first picture says?


----------



## sammuel

Foinikas said:


> I don't. I posted this,that was from what I guess,researched by others. So you can research it too and find if it's true or not.
> 
> It might be true,it might be fake. But there's something going on about the whole "Russia bombed a hospital" thing.



Did research it and found nothing wrong with the image .

Do base your claims on evidence and if you don't know , kindly avoid screaming fake on stuff you know nothing about.

We have enough nonsense posted here already.

Mariupol's children hospital | Before & after​












~

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## bobo6661

Foinikas said:


> Did you read what the first picture says?


did you get a closer look to those pictures , in one shes inside got the blanket on her back on the other shes outside with the same blanket on her, those pictures dont realy say much 🤷‍♂️


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501826308329947137


----------



## Foinikas

bobo6661 said:


> did you get a closer look to those pictures , in one shes inside got the blanket on her back on the other shes outside with the same blanket on her


Take a closer look. Same woman,different clothes.


----------



## bobo6661

Foinikas said:


> Take a closer look. Same woman,different clothes.


She looks a bit(and im generous here) similar but it does not mean they are the same woman( im talking about the one on the stretcher)...


----------



## Foinikas

bobo6661 said:


> She looks a bit(and im generous here) similar but it does not mean they are the same woman ...


I know you're Polish,but not everything the Ukrainians and NATO is saying is true. I know Russians often lie about stuff during war,but NATO has become an expert on propaganda the last 30 years. 

Another example. This photo had circulated on social media as a real scene from the war. I did a search on google and foud out it's from a movie. 







Also this one

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Where would these Iskander-M missiles be targeted at? I doubt they'll be only be used in Ukraine only. Something may be cooking. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501793266135707650


----------



## sammuel

Foinikas said:


> Take a closer look. Same woman,different clothes.
> 
> View attachment 822678
> View attachment 822679
> 
> 
> View attachment 822683





bobo6661 said:


> She looks a bit(and im generous here) similar but it does not mean they are the same woman( im talking about the one on the stretcher)...



Simply a lie.

This is the Instagram page of the model where the idiot who made this assertion of photos copied and pasted from , clearly not the same woman , enough with the lies you are grasping at straws now.









𝕄𝕒𝕡𝕦-𝕄𝕒𝕡𝕦 🌸✨ (@krevvetochka) • Instagram photos and videos


6,854 Followers, 273 Following, 242 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from 𝕄𝕒𝕡𝕦-𝕄𝕒𝕡𝕦 🌸✨ (@krevvetochka)




www.instagram.com





~

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## bobo6661

Foinikas said:


> I know you're Polish,but not everything the Ukrainians and NATO is saying is true. I know Russians often lie about stuff during war,but NATO has become an expert on propaganda the last 30 years.
> 
> Another example. This photo had circulated on social media as a real scene from the war. I did a search on google and foud out it's from a movie.




Man after what i heard from the russians past few days is enough to tell me that russian propaganda is high on crack, Yee Ukrainians do propaganda oh my god who would have thought, they are beeing invaided and they need postive press for the help to continue to flow ...


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501928278394765315


----------



## Foinikas

sammuel said:


> Simply a lie.
> 
> This is the Instagram page of the model where the idiot who made this assertion of photos copied and pasted from , clearly not the same woman , enough with the lies you are grasping at straws now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 𝕄𝕒𝕡𝕦-𝕄𝕒𝕡𝕦 🌸✨ (@krevvetochka) • Instagram photos and videos
> 
> 
> 6,854 Followers, 273 Following, 242 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from 𝕄𝕒𝕡𝕦-𝕄𝕒𝕡𝕦 🌸✨ (@krevvetochka)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.instagram.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


And how do you know it's a lie? How are YOU so sure? Can you prove it? 

And she's the same woman,if you can't see that,then get glasses.


----------



## newb3e

Foinikas said:


> Take a closer look. Same woman,different clothes.
> 
> View attachment 822678
> View attachment 822679
> 
> 
> View attachment 822683


the only casualty of war


----------



## Foinikas

bobo6661 said:


> Man after what i heard from the russians past few days is enough to tell me that russian propaganda is high on crack, Yee Ukrainians do propaganda oh my god who would have thought, they are beeing invaided and they need postive press for the help to continue to flow ...


Oh then Ukrainian propaganda is ok?


----------



## bobo6661

Foinikas said:


> And how do you know it's a lie? How are YOU so sure? Can you prove it?
> 
> And she's the same woman,if you can't see that,then get glasses.


i mean like your photos didn't really prove anything more than she looks a bit similar 🤷‍♂️

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## LeGenD

Thinker3 said:


> Nuclear Radiation and Radiation wind's will make whole area impossible to live in for hundreds of years.





Spoiler: Click to check.



A major nuclear exchange between USA and Russia will be a catastrophic event for mankind and billions might die around the world consequently. Global Order might collapse by extension.

However, Soviet spy Sergei Tretyakov disclosed in his accounts that KGB created and advanced Nuclear Winter argument and many have bought it.









Book Details the Defection of 'Comrade J'


In 2000, Sergei Tretyakov became one of the highest-ranking Russian spies ever to defect to the United States. Pete Earley, author of a new book about Tretyakov called Comrade J, and the former Russian spy discuss his case and his motivation.




www.npr.org










Is Nuclear Winter a Myth? – Defence Tactical







defencetactical.com





American forces are made to operate around the world - this makes sense and could be in line with a contingency plan. There are some well-prepared locations in USA which can continue to function after a nuclear war. Raven Rock is one of these locations. Regrouping and relocation of survivors to a new landscape is possible. If Canada is not suitable, another place could be. It depends.



Let us focus on the topic on hand.


----------



## Foinikas

bobo6661 said:


> i mean like your photos didn't really prove anything more than she looks a bit similar 🤷‍♂️


All that bull in this war and you're still not skeptical about all that stuff? 

It's the same story again from 1991 Iraq War,to Yugoslavia to Syria. "Evil guy bombs hospitals and kills women and children,good American ally is fighting,NATO must intervene to save them".


----------



## bobo6661

Foinikas said:


> All that bull in this war and you're still not skeptical about all that stuff?


Nope i have Ukrainins in family so im biased 🤷‍♂️ Sceptical to what russia invading our neighbour bombing it and making us take 2 mln refugee? guess i should only blame the Ukraine ? Because russia only wants to bring peace ?

Like after lawrow said "We didn't even attack Ukraine" i will ignore russian sources it lost all means to take it serious.


----------



## Foinikas

bobo6661 said:


> Nope i have Ukrainins in family so im biased 🤷‍♂️ Sceptical to what russia invading our neighbour bombing it and making us take 2 mln refugee? guess i should only blame the Ukraine ? Because russia only wants to bring peace ?


I'm not saying the Russians should have invaded,but the Ukrainian governments after 2014 and the Americans and British are to blame for this situation. They pushed the Russians to react and invade. Ukraine should have been neutral for both sides and the West should have tried to persuade the Ukrainians to be neutral as well. They wanted Ukraine in their sphere of influence as well.

This crazy NATO expansion should have stopped a long time ago. Or they should at least not try to grab Ukraine as well. Zelensky fell for their promises as well...

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## thetutle

Tamerlane said:


> Jews have a hatred for Russia going back to the time of the czars. The Bolshevik revolution resulted in them killing off the royal family and taking over the country.


Yes. 


Tamerlane said:


> After the end of the USSR the bulk of Russian resources were stolen by the Jewish oligarchs. When Putin threw them out they moved to Israel.


yes


Tamerlane said:


> Then Putin got them angrier by getting involved in Syria and Iran, targets of Israeli regime change.


not really. Israel does not care one way or another who runs syria. They just want a destroyed syria who will leave them alone and let them keep Golan heights. 


Tamerlane said:


> The bulk of supremacistsright wingers, white supremacists in the West are on Israeli payroll. That explains why nationalist European politicians mainly target Muslims, never Jews.


yes. its more like 50% 50%. The problem is that most of these neo nazi groups are infiltrated by the secret service and as you say paid off by Israel.


Tamerlane said:


> Traditional nazis obviously hated Jews, but very few of them exist now. The neo-nazis in Ukraine were working under a Jewish President and Prime Minister, so obviously they didn’t have a problem with Jews.


Its about 50% of the nazis that hate the jews. In the end, the far right ideology will always come to the conclusion that white europeans should never be jewish, muslim or black slaves and that white people should rule. this will be the outcome no matter how much money anyone throws at them. 


Tamerlane said:


> This war is an Israeli declaration of war on Russia.


no. This war is Russia recreating its empire which was so "foolishly given away" by Gorbachev. 


Tamerlane said:


> Nothing short of the collapse of Russia will be tolerated.


yes. 


Tamerlane said:


> Putin has to go and a government friendly to Israel has to be installed. They want a penis-piano-playing guy like Jewlensky running Russia. That’s the objective.


not important if its friendly to Israel, like Putin is now, but yes, that would be ideal yes. a comedian penis player in charge of Russia would be ideal for the west. 


Tamerlane said:


> If Putin survives then Zion will be in a lot of trouble.


no. Putin loves Israel. he allows them to operate in syria. He wont help Iran get nukes because it endangers Israel.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Not sure about the logic of dropping these huge bombs on a city where civilians can't be distinguished from combatants. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501899067722506242

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## Menthol

vizier said:


> Russian demands for outcome of the war seems to be not clear. For example Ukraine giving high autonomy to Donetsk Luhansk and Crimea region(similar to north Iraq) and accepts Russian bases military presence there with non aggression packt and non militarized zone around Azov sea region connecting Donetsk with Crimea. This gives those strategic Azov sea area to Russian control. But If putin wants whole black sea control that is another issue.
> In return maybe some sanctions can be lifted from Russia as well depending on the bargain rolling back the situation as much as possible before the war conditions. It is easy to disband azov battalion and similar groups and full iaea control on Ukraine future nuclear activities also non nato membership guarantee. But what are Russian terms.full scale submission or demilitarization and control of whole black sea coast that would be very hard to accept unless Ukr is totally defeated costing high both sides especially the civilians trapped in cities.



I think Russia wants a puppet government in Ukraine.

Just like USA did.

Once the president is captured or killed or runs away, Russia will install a puppet government there.

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## bobo6661

Foinikas said:


> I'm not saying the Russians should have invaded,but the Ukrainian governments after 2014 and the Americans and British are to blame for this situation. They pushed the Russians to react and invade. Ukraine should have been neutral for both sides and the West should have tried to persuade the Ukrainians to be neutral as well. They wanted Ukraine in their sphere of influence as well


the 2014 was people dont wanting more russia presents they were protesting against more ties with russia ... the ex president was pushing for it so your neutrality is just fake... russia wanted and still wants ukraine to be under it shoe...


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Not sure if someone already posted, but gotta share this video. Things don't look good on civilians who are caught in this conflict.

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## Orange

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501937857216192521

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501891359766200324


----------



## Foinikas

bobo6661 said:


> the 2014 was people dont wanting more russia presents they were protesting against more ties with russia ... the ex president was pushing for it so your neutrality is just fake... russia wanted and still wants ukraine to be under it shoe...


What people? Pravii Sektor,Svoboda and pro-Western politicians? What about all those who protested against the riots in Eastern and South Ukraine? 

Zelensky could have made Ukraine neutral to both sides,but he wanted NATO and EU. The Russians aren't stupid to let an enemy in their front yard.

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## thetutle

sammuel said:


> They are forced to say " let Ukraine be a part of Russia. "
> 
> Seriously out of order , what does Russia gain from posting such images ?
> 
> 
> ~


this tells us that the Russian war objective is the annexation of Ukraine. But we knew that.


----------



## LeGenD

Foinikas said:


> All that bull in this war and you're still not skeptical about all that stuff?
> 
> It's the same story again from 1991 Iraq War,to Yugoslavia to Syria. "Evil guy bombs hospitals and kills women and children,good American ally is fighting,NATO must intervene to save them".


Russians have bombed hospitals in Syria as well as in Ukraine. These events are well-documented.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501934433124831241


----------



## RescueRanger

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501891359766200324


Whenever it was it was morning because you can hear him say “good morning mothers******”.

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## Foinikas

LeGenD said:


> Russians have bombed hospitals in Syria as well as in Ukraine. These events are well-documented.


And NATO has bombed hospitals in Serbia,Iraq and Afghanistan. Where's the outcry and sanctions?

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## LeGenD

Foinikas said:


> And NATO has bombed hospitals in Serbia,Iraq and Afghanistan. Where's the outcry and sanctions?


They were shamed and ridiculed for these developments in relevant topics.

Now back to current topic. The point is not to deny Russian atrocities.

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## letsrock

LeGenD said:


> They were shamed and ridiculed for these developments in relevant topics.
> 
> Now back to current topic. The point is not to deny Russian atrocities.


"thoughts and prayers"

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## Rafi

LeGenD said:


> Russia has landmass but how Russian population base is distributed across it? This is the point. USA can eliminate anything of value in Russia; from Russian military positions to ports. USN will be directed to wipe out Russian navy as well. Everything is marked.
> 
> American military communication networks are designed with nuclear war in mind. They keep a fleet in every ocean as well. Survivors can regroup and rebuild USA in Canada or another country if necessary. Russians cannot take out Americans around the world.
> 
> Anyways, this is discussion for another time.





LeGenD said:


> They will nuke empty forests and mountains as well? Much of Canada is unpopulated.



If the main cities are gone, we are taking vast majority of population, economy, the scientific community. In other words nations cannot survive as viable states, talking about some post apocalyptic mad max type world.

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## Foinikas

LeGenD said:


> They were shamed and ridiculed for these developments in relevant topics.
> 
> Now back to current topic. The point is not to deny Russian atrocities.


Back on topic,but don't rush to condemn everything as Russian brutality. Wait and see. That's all I'm saying. There's a lot of fake news in this war.

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## Menthol

Invicta said:


> I think we as the West have overplayed our hand in eagerness as well. If the situation was not ending up in a stalemate there could be peace on the horizon.
> To start off with all the sanctions that we can implement have been implemented, there is nothing else we can do but to arm Ukraine defensively or get involved directly - direct involvement will not happen as thing can spiral out of control and into WW3.
> 
> However, when Russia invaded a first tranche of sanctions should have been brought in and Russia should have been warned to get back to the table and pursue peace with a warning on further sanctions. With the current resistance they would have seen how their plan would have failed and would have come to a compromise.
> 
> Right now their backs are against the wall - they need to have some positive take away otherwise Putin will lose public trust and that is why Russia will keep its unrealistic demands up in negotiations.
> 
> Unfortunately we are where are but it must be a lesson for the future.



Why do you think indirect involvement is not an act of aggression?

Someone is kidnapping your little sister, to hurt you indirectly, but indirectly it's not directly, since it's not you who is being kidnapped, so there's no reason for you to be angry and panic.

But you know, that logic is misleading.


I think between the end of the year or next year, you will see the result of Russia's action.

WW3 will be quick, very quick, just an hour.

You will know it's WW3 just an hour later, assuming you are still alive in the UK, and you know suddenly the conflict is ended.


I don't know whatever today is a fake peace or a fake danger.

But many say we are living in a fake peace while a huge huge huge danger that all humanity in the past has never seen before is actually the real reality.

Someone is blind and playing with big fire right now.

I don't think people in UK, Europe, USA, Russia, China, and the rest of the world want a war or any conflict.

But that is what we are being pushed by idiots.



coffee_cup said:


> This!
> 
> And the whole world will have to face the consequences for this for decades to come (that is, if anyone survives at all).
> 
> Even explosion of one single nuclear weapon anywhere in the world has after effects everywhere and here we are speaking about 100s and 1000s!
> 
> God have mercy on us all!



I hope it's not going to happen.

We can change our actions today.

Today is not tomorrow, luckily.

We are already very very close.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501931357198438401


----------



## thetutle

Invicta said:


> Right now their backs are against the wall - they need to have some positive take away otherwise Putin will lose public trust and that is why Russia will keep its unrealistic demands up in negotiations.


let them keep their demands. Russia is all in now. This will play out to the end.


----------



## Meengla

So my liberal, staunchly Democrat neighbor friend was over last night for some Daal (lentils) dish and homemade pomegranate wine and we chatted for 6 hours--till past midnight. He is against wars and the Military Industrial Complex. He is also a WASP (White Anglo Saxon Protestant). And apparently has a soft spot for Russia but would never directly criticize President Biden. And I generally value is opinion.
His view is that there is no way Ukraine could win this conflict. And he also said that it is the Neo Cons who have pushed Biden to such aggressive policies just as they pushed Obama to let CIA topple the pro Russia govt in 2014. I think he has blinders or too much faith in the Democratic Party. But he did say something which more and more people not only in this forum but also outside of this forum are saying: *Russia could use a tactical nuke 'with about 1/10th of the Hiroshima power' [his words] to conquer Kiev and there is nothing the West would be able to do about that.
Think about where we are going???*

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## Clutch

Foinikas said:


> And NATO has bombed hospitals in Serbia,Iraq and Afghanistan. Where's the outcry and sanctions?



Only White patient hospitals matter ....

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## LeGenD

Foinikas said:


> Back on topic,but don't rush to condemn everything as Russian brutality. Wait and see. That's all I'm saying. There's a lot of fake news in this war.


Following incidents are confirmed:









Ukraine: Russian Cluster Munition Hits Hospital


A Russian ballistic missile carrying a cluster munition struck just outside a hospital in Vuhledar, a town in the Ukrainian government-controlled Donetska region, on February 24, 2022.




www.hrw.org













Russia bombs Ukrainian maternity hospital as mothers and children ‘flee to basement’


Russian airstrike on residential area of Zhytomyr killed two people and damaged hospital




www.independent.co.uk













Sheltering in a hospital basement, Ukrainian kids long for home


Children who are too sick to go home or flee the capital shelter from Russian missiles in a Kyiv hospital.




www.aljazeera.com













Russia attacked Ukrainian hospitals, violating humanitarian law, WHO says


WHO called for a safe corridor to deliver oxygen, trauma kits, and other medical supplies.




arstechnica.com


----------



## Menthol

Rafi said:


> If the main cities are gone, we are taking vast majority of population, economy, the scientific community. In other words nations cannot survive as viable states, talking about some post apocalyptic mad max type world.



You should see the nuclear war scenario video from the Cold War.

It's complete destruction.

Every place in USA and Russia is already being targeted and calculating the damage.

It's more like a complete extinction rather than just a small "but rather big" explosive on some main cities.

That will explain, why it needs thousands of nuclear warheads instead of just one or two.

Not just the nuclear missile itself, but the mechanism of defense against nuclear missiles before arriving is also massive.

The wars in Ukraine, Syria, and Iraq are child play compared to it.

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## Kraetoz

LeGenD said:


> They were shamed and ridiculed for these developments in relevant topics.
> 
> Now back to current topic. The point is not to deny Russian atrocities.


Shamed and ridiculed? Why not sanctioned? 

Russia has been rightly sanctioned already.

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## Rafi

Kraetoz said:


> Shamed and ridiculed? Why not sanctioned?
> 
> Russia has been rightly sanctioned already.



The world is not fair, it is a jungle out there, might is right, China has done it the right way, you can't sanction China without suffering yourself.

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## Microsoft

Meengla said:


> So my liberal, staunchly Democrat neighbor friend was over last night for some Daal (lentils) dish and homemade pomegranate wine and we chatted for 6 hours--till past midnight. He is against wars and the Military Industrial Complex. He is also a WASP (White Anglo Saxon Protestant). And apparently has a soft spot for Russia but would never directly criticize President Biden. And I generally value is opinion.
> His view is that there is no way Ukraine could win this conflict. And he also said that it is the Neo Cons who have pushed Biden to such aggressive policies just as they pushed Obama to let CIA topple the pro Russia govt in 2014. I think he has blinders or too much faith in the Democratic Party. But he did say something which more and more people not only in this forum but also outside of this forum are saying: *Russia could use a tactical nuke 'with about 1/10th of the Hiroshima power' [his words] to conquer Kiev and there is nothing the West would be able to do about that.
> Think about where we are going???*



Before using the tactical nuke option Russia would try to use more conventional force. Nobody wants to join the nuke user club and considering Russia's "gentle" approach so far they can definitely escalate their use of force before getting to nuke territory. Also, if Russia plans on occupying the territory, a no-nuke policy would be a must otherwise even their supporters/neutrals will turn against them.

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## Meengla

Menthol said:


> Why do you think indirect involvement is not an act of aggression?
> 
> Someone is kidnapping your little sister, to hurt you indirectly, but indirectly it's not directly, since it's not you who is being kidnapped, so there's no reason for you to be angry and panic.
> 
> But you know, that logic is misleading.
> 
> 
> I think between the end of the year or next year, you will see the result of Russia's action.
> 
> WW3 will be quick, very quick, just an hour.
> 
> You will know it's WW3 just an hour later, assuming you are still alive in the UK, and you know suddenly the conflict is ended.
> 
> 
> I don't know whatever today is a fake peace or a fake danger.
> 
> But many say we are living in a fake peace while a huge huge huge danger that all humanity in the past has never seen before is actually the real reality.
> 
> Someone is blind and playing with big fire right now.
> 
> I don't think people in UK, Europe, USA, Russia, China, and the rest of the world want a war or any conflict.
> 
> But that is what we are being pushed by idiots.
> 
> 
> 
> I hope it's not going to happen.
> 
> We can change our actions today.
> 
> Today is not tomorrow, luckily.
> 
> We are already very very close.



Your post should be read very carefully by all and truly mentally absorbed. An unthinkable is happening right now with this war and far worse could happen if we don't pull back.


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Menthol said:


> Why do you think indirect involvement is not an act of aggression?
> 
> Someone is kidnapping your little sister, to hurt you indirectly, but indirectly it's not directly, since it's not you who is being kidnapped, so there's no reason for you to be angry and panic.
> 
> But you know, that logic is misleading.
> 
> 
> I think between the end of the year or next year, you will see the result of Russia's action.
> 
> WW3 will be quick, very quick, just an hour.
> 
> You will know it's WW3 just an hour later, assuming you are still alive in the UK, and you know suddenly the conflict is ended.
> 
> 
> I don't know whatever today is a fake peace or a fake danger.
> 
> But many say we are living in a fake peace while a huge huge huge danger that all humanity in the past has never seen before is actually the real reality.
> 
> Someone is blind and playing with big fire right now.
> 
> I don't think people in UK, Europe, USA, Russia, China, and the rest of the world want a war or any conflict.
> 
> But that is what we are being pushed by idiots.
> 
> 
> 
> I hope it's not going to happen.
> 
> We can change our actions today.
> 
> Today is not tomorrow, luckily.
> 
> We are already very very close.



What an hour? You are daydreaming if you think it will last an hour?.. In my estimation WW3 will be running for a whopping 10 years with multiple series of conflicts nonestop

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## Microsoft

LeGenD said:


> Following incidents are confirmed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine: Russian Cluster Munition Hits Hospital
> 
> 
> A Russian ballistic missile carrying a cluster munition struck just outside a hospital in Vuhledar, a town in the Ukrainian government-controlled Donetska region, on February 24, 2022.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hrw.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia bombs Ukrainian maternity hospital as mothers and children ‘flee to basement’
> 
> 
> Russian airstrike on residential area of Zhytomyr killed two people and damaged hospital
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sheltering in a hospital basement, Ukrainian kids long for home
> 
> 
> Children who are too sick to go home or flee the capital shelter from Russian missiles in a Kyiv hospital.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia attacked Ukrainian hospitals, violating humanitarian law, WHO says
> 
> 
> WHO called for a safe corridor to deliver oxygen, trauma kits, and other medical supplies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> arstechnica.com



Part and parcel of war what if Ukrainian nazis were using hospitals as bases? Mistakes also happen, read it from a professional yourself:


gambit said:


> Let us not jump to conclusion.
> 
> You have .1 second to shoot or no shoot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In that .1 second, your blood pressure is elevated, high on adrenaline to the point of vomiting, some hearing loss and ears ringing, physically stressed from carrying a heavy load as well as tired from running, and your vision is degraded from smoke or dust or rain or tears or even blood.
> 
> Shoot or no shoot.


----------



## thetutle

Meengla said:


> *Russia could use a tactical nuke 'with about 1/10th of the Hiroshima power' [his words] to conquer Kiev and there is nothing the West would be able to do about that.
> Think about where we are going???*


And then Russia would send its troops to occupy ground zero? Im Sure they would love that and follow those orders to walk over radioactive terrain and stay there.

Russia can achieve the same goal with conventional bombs.

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## Vergennes

Russian soldiers captured in Ukraine today. Probably conscripts...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501947559660584967

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## SIPRA

Meengla said:


> So my liberal, staunchly Democrat neighbor friend was over last night for some Daal (lentils) dish and homemade pomegranate wine and we chatted for 6 hours--till past midnight. He is against wars and the Military Industrial Complex. He is also a WASP (White Anglo Saxon Protestant). And apparently has a soft spot for Russia but would never directly criticize President Biden. And I generally value is opinion.
> His view is that there is no way Ukraine could win this conflict. And he also said that it is the Neo Cons who have pushed Biden to such aggressive policies just as they pushed Obama to let CIA topple the pro Russia govt in 2014. I think he has blinders or too much faith in the Democratic Party. But he did say something which more and more people not only in this forum but also outside of this forum are saying: *Russia could use a tactical nuke 'with about 1/10th of the Hiroshima power' [his words] to conquer Kiev and there is nothing the West would be able to do about that.
> Think about where we are going???*



Real question is that how much home-made wine was in him, when he made these predictions?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Menthol

LeGenD said:


> Following incidents are confirmed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine: Russian Cluster Munition Hits Hospital
> 
> 
> A Russian ballistic missile carrying a cluster munition struck just outside a hospital in Vuhledar, a town in the Ukrainian government-controlled Donetska region, on February 24, 2022.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hrw.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia bombs Ukrainian maternity hospital as mothers and children ‘flee to basement’
> 
> 
> Russian airstrike on residential area of Zhytomyr killed two people and damaged hospital
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sheltering in a hospital basement, Ukrainian kids long for home
> 
> 
> Children who are too sick to go home or flee the capital shelter from Russian missiles in a Kyiv hospital.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia attacked Ukrainian hospitals, violating humanitarian law, WHO says
> 
> 
> WHO called for a safe corridor to deliver oxygen, trauma kits, and other medical supplies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> arstechnica.com



Because it's under international law, it's the safest place to hide for Ukrainian soldiers, to lunch nasty and evil attacks.

More like, I can hit you, but you can't hit me, because I'm in children's hospital.

So basically both of them are wrong.

But Ukraine's side is more wrong than Russia's in this case.


It's like some criminal taking a hostage in a children's hospital.

And the policeman arrives and storms the building...

But the policeman is wrong, and the criminal is right.

Because the hospital is under international protection law.

And then the journalist is even crazy by publishing articles to justify the criminal as the good guy and policeman deserve jail and heavy punishment.

Ah, the empire of lies.



Meengla said:


> So my liberal, staunchly Democrat neighbor friend was over last night for some Daal (lentils) dish and homemade pomegranate wine and we chatted for 6 hours--till past midnight. He is against wars and the Military Industrial Complex. He is also a WASP (White Anglo Saxon Protestant). And apparently has a soft spot for Russia but would never directly criticize President Biden. And I generally value is opinion.
> His view is that there is no way Ukraine could win this conflict. And he also said that it is the Neo Cons who have pushed Biden to such aggressive policies just as they pushed Obama to let CIA topple the pro Russia govt in 2014. I think he has blinders or too much faith in the Democratic Party. But he did say something which more and more people not only in this forum but also outside of this forum are saying: *Russia could use a tactical nuke 'with about 1/10th of the Hiroshima power' [his words] to conquer Kiev and there is nothing the West would be able to do about that.
> Think about where we are going???*



If the West is still sane and afraid to die...

Russia can do anything toward Ukraine and nuke it if Russia wants.

It's an analogy.

Basically, your friend is right.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Chechnyan forces assisting civilians in Kiev


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501930473274023936

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## LeGenD

Kraetoz said:


> Shamed and ridiculed? Why not sanctioned?
> 
> Russia has been rightly sanctioned already.


Dear, can I impose sanctions on them? For general knowledge - this matter can be taken to the International Court of Justice (ICJ).

I recall China imposing limited-scale sanctions on USA but this was in relation to Hong Kong. China is a big and powerful country though - an economic giant.



Microsoft said:


> Part and parcel of war what if Ukrainian nazis were using hospitals as bases?


How many Ukrainians are Nazis? What about Russian Nazis?

@Foinikas
@Kraetoz

Any word for this generalization?


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501946509612384263

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## Menthol

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> What an hour? You are daydreaming if you think it will last an hour?.. In my estimation WW3 will be running for a whopping 10 years with multiple series of conflicts nonestop



Multiple conflicts have already happened.

Started by the USA after the Cold War, especially 9/11, continued with the Iraq invasion, Arab Springs, Libya, Syria, Hongkong, and now we are arriving at the near climax of the war, the Russia-Ukraine conflict.

WW3 is basically the World War by USA.

We all are just waiting for "the hour" before everyone can conclude that this is the WW3.

Without the hour no one is going to believe that WW3 has already happened.

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## Microsoft

LeGenD said:


> How many Ukrainians are Nazis? What about Russian Nazis?
> 
> @Foinikas
> @Kraetoz
> 
> Any word for this generalization?



If we start getting into "what about" we'll never get to discuss anything else. As to how many Ukrainian Nazis? Not sure but their military denying safe passage and even beating blacks, Indians, Arabs or anyone non-white should tell you the problem cannot be ignored.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501896887816929281

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## EAGLE777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501836288319762436

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501848242060988418


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Russian soldiers captured in Ukraine today. Probably conscripts...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501947559660584967





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501893705560641544

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## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> Russian soldiers captured in Ukraine today. Probably conscripts...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501947559660584967


55% of them on this picture are not even ethnic Russians. Smart move by Putin, thin out the ethnic minorities a bit.

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## coffee_cup

No one knows what will happen in this war, but one thing is for sure:

Every city in Ukraine has become famous around the world. LOL.

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## nang2

coffee_cup said:


> No one knows what will happen in this war, but one thing is for sure:
> 
> Every city in Ukraine has become famous around the world. LOL.


Before long, you won't need maps to walk around Ukraine the next time you visit.

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## LeGenD

Microsoft said:


> Before using the tactical nuke option Russia would try to use more conventional force. Nobody wants to join the nuke user club and considering Russia's "gentle" approach so far they can definitely escalate their use of force before getting to nuke territory. Also, if Russia plans on occupying the territory, a no-nuke policy would be a must otherwise even their supporters/neutrals will turn against them.


Gentle approach? NO.

Russians have used over 600 cruise missiles and ballistic missiles in Ukraine by now.

Russian forces are shelling Ukrainian cities as well:









Russian rockets are falling indiscriminately on Ukrainian cities


The goal may be to spread terror




www.economist.com













In Photos: Russian Artillery, Bombs Pound Ukrainian Cities As Civilians Continue To Die


Russia's invasion of Ukraine continued unabated over the weekend, with Ukraine saying Russian forces had launched hundreds of missiles and artillery attacks across the country, including dropping powerful bombs on residential areas of Chernihiv, a city north of the capital, Kyiv.




www.rferl.org





Even Indian sources are noticing:









Russia-Ukraine War: Here's list of some major cities attacked by Russian forces so far


Since Russia launched a special military operation on February 24, the country's military has attacked several major cities in Ukraine. Read on.




www.republicworld.com





Ukrainians are using UAVs to take out Russian artillery pieces on the other hand:














Ukrainian Bayraktar TB2 UAV destroys Russian military column in second operational strike


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQF4r_fNlGI A Ukrainian Bayraktar TB2 unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) hit a Russian military column in the Chornobaivka, in southern Ukraine, in what is the second known operation of the UAV against Russian assets since October 2021. In a video shared by the Ukra




defbrief.com













The Russian Army Has A Problem: Ukraine Keeps Killing Its Tanks


Overall, Ukraine is fighting gallantly against Russian armor and tanks forces. But the Russians have paused and re-grouped.




www.19fortyfive.com





Some PDF members are in disbelief though. Mighty Russian army not living up to its usual hype.



Microsoft said:


> If we start getting into "what about" we'll never get to discuss anything else. As to how many Ukrainian Nazis? Not sure but their military denying safe passage and even beating blacks, Indians, Arabs or anyone non-white should tell you the problem cannot be ignored.


You are not up-to-date on developments in Ukraine. This much is clear.

Bombing hospitals is wrong and unethical - even if enemy troops are there. Fight them outside.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Kharkov last night


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501670915364560905


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## Kraetoz

LeGenD said:


> How many Ukrainians are Nazis? What about Russian Nazis?
> 
> @Foinikas
> @Kraetoz
> 
> Any word for this generalization?


Bombarding hospital or other civilian areas is never on, period.

But use of human shields is forbidden by the *Geneva convention. *That's how Israel, US and now Russia will get away with it, by just using the magical term "Human Shields"

Bombing civilian areas is a big no no, but for that to change, we need to amend Geneva conventions.

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## thetutle

General clark is right when he says, if we are afraid to act because of a nuclear threat, what will we do if he goes after the next country? 

His use of nuclear force should not in any way prevent us from acting. He will use it if he wants to. That is his right and his decision. All we can do in that respect is have retaliatory capabilities ready and all the secret capabilities ready that will deny him the ability to launch as many as possible. Nuclear war is definitely winnable by the US, it always has been. US has always believed that and thats why they have all the things in place if it should ever happen. Obviously best avoided.

He also says that the future of the western world will depend upon Russia succeeding or failing here in Ukraine. I agree with this.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501641164906287107


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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501938378878558220Igor found the easter egg.

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## Beast

thetutle said:


> General clark is right when he says, if we are afraid to act because of a nuclear threat, what will we do if he goes after the next country?
> 
> His use of nuclear force should not in any way prevent us from acting. He will use it if he wants to. That is his right and his decision. All we can do in that respect is have retaliatory capabilities ready and all the secret capabilities ready that will deny him the ability to launch as many as possible. Nuclear war is definitely winnable by the US, it always has been. US has always believed that and thats why they have all the things in place if it should ever happen. Obviously best avoided.
> 
> He also says that the future of the western world will depend upon Russia succeeding or failing here in Ukraine. I agree with this.


That is the not problem. Everybody has a red line. Nobody will doubt US will nuke any countries dare to attack pearl harbour again.

Same as Russia on Ukraine.
Same as China on Taiwan if other Interfere.
This general is bringing the world closer to complete destruction of the world.

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## Wood

Meengla said:


> So my liberal, staunchly Democrat neighbor friend was over last night for some Daal (lentils) dish and homemade pomegranate wine and we chatted for 6 hours--till past midnight. He is against wars and the Military Industrial Complex. He is also a WASP (White Anglo Saxon Protestant). And apparently has a soft spot for Russia but would never directly criticize President Biden. And I generally value is opinion.
> His view is that there is no way Ukraine could win this conflict. And he also said that it is the Neo Cons who have pushed Biden to such aggressive policies just as they pushed Obama to let CIA topple the pro Russia govt in 2014. I think he has blinders or too much faith in the Democratic Party. But he did say something which more and more people not only in this forum but also outside of this forum are saying: *Russia could use a tactical nuke 'with about 1/10th of the Hiroshima power' [his words] to conquer Kiev and there is nothing the West would be able to do about that.
> Think about where we are going???*


Tactical nukes have made the nuclear peace theory meaningless. Seems like nuclear countries can use a tactical nuke and still claim that they have not used real nukes

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## Kraetoz

Wood said:


> Tactical nukes have made the nuclear peace theory meaningless. Seems like nuclear countries can use a tactical nuke and still claim that they have not used real nukes


That's so true. Only ICBMs are in the nuclear threshold or the real nukes.

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## Meengla

Menthol said:


> Multiple conflicts have already happened.
> 
> Started by the USA after the Cold War, especially 9/11, continued with the Iraq invasion, Arab Springs, Libya, Syria, Hongkong, and now we are arriving at the near climax of the war, the Russia-Ukraine conflict.
> 
> WW3 is basically the World War by USA.
> 
> We all are just waiting for "the hour" before everyone can conclude that this is the WW3.
> 
> Without the hour no one is going to believe that WW3 has already happened.



Good insight!
World War 3, if this conflict goes out of hand, will not have a definite start date. *Sometimes dominoes fall too slowly to know when they had started falling.* But I believe the West's myopic belligerence after the end of the Cold War would be regarded by History as the first and number one reason for the Armageddon should it come to that.
Idiots here don't know what could happen if this war goes out of hand. A dictator in charge of Russia could go to anything length to 'secure' his place in 'history'.

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## nang2

thetutle said:


> General clark is right when he says, if we are afraid to act because of a nuclear threat, what will we do if he goes after the next country?
> 
> His use of nuclear force should not in any way prevent us from acting. He will use it if he wants to. That is his right and his decision. All we can do in that respect is have retaliatory capabilities ready and all the secret capabilities ready that will deny him the ability to launch as many as possible. Nuclear war is definitely winnable by the US, it always has been. US has always believed that and thats why they have all the things in place if it should ever happen. Obviously best avoided.
> 
> He also says that the future of the western world will depend upon Russia succeeding or failing here in Ukraine. I agree with this.


This general apparently didn't study history. He forgot about Afghanistan.

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## thetutle

Beast said:


> That is the not problem. Everybody has a red line. Nobody will doubt US will nuke any countries dare to attack pearl harbour again.
> 
> Same as Russia on Ukraine.
> Same as China on Taiwan if other Interfere.
> This general is bringing the world closer to complete destruction of the world.


In your world view defence of Ukraine is the equivalent as attacking pearl harbour. 

In my word view, attacking a democracy is the red line warranting full intervention. 

It wont happen. They will instead wear Putin down slowly.


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## bobo6661

Kraetoz said:


> That's so true. Only ICBMs are in the nuclear threshold or the real nukes.


Tsar bomb was not a ICBM 🤷‍♂️ was Tsar bomb not a real nuke then?


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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> Idiots here don't know what could happen if this war goes out of hand. A dictator in charge of Russia could go to anything length to 'secure' his place in 'history'.


Armageddon is living under enslavement by a Russian dictator. There will be nuclear war before that happens. But we wont see it because they will fail in Ukraine and be pushed back eventually.

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## dBSPL

Wood said:


> Tactical nukes have made the nuclear peace theory meaningless. Seems like nuclear countries can use a tactical nuke and still claim that they have not used real nukes


(March 10 2022) Lavrov: We have not attacked any country, (bcs we dont see Ukr as a country) and we do not intend to attack

(March 10, 2023, Doomsday) Lavrov: We have not launched nuclear warheads to any country, man, they are just tactical, and we dont intend to use ICBM

(2024)

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## thetutle

bobo6661 said:


> Tsar bomb was not a ICBM 🤷‍♂️ was Tsar bomb not a real nuke then?


What about you? are you polish? if he asks fir disarmament of Poland and hits a base with a tactical nuke? is it better to Surender and save innocent polish lives or push for a full NATO intervention and all that it would bring?


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## Meengla

thetutle said:


> General clark is right when he says, if we are afraid to act because of a nuclear threat, what will we do if he goes after the next country?
> 
> His use of nuclear force should not in any way prevent us from acting. He will use it if he wants to. That is his right and his decision. All we can do in that respect is have retaliatory capabilities ready and all the secret capabilities ready that will deny him the ability to launch as many as possible. Nuclear war is definitely winnable by the US, it always has been. US has always believed that and thats why they have all the things in place if it should ever happen. *Obviously best avoided.*
> He also says that the future of the western world will depend upon Russia succeeding or failing here in Ukraine. I agree with this.



No, General Clark it must be avoided. If I recall you wanted to be in a frontal war against Russia when Russia invaded Georgia?? What you call 'Obviously best avoided' should be 'Absolutely best avoided'. Warmonger RETIRED GENERAL!
Why couldn't the West wait till Putin passes away?? Why couldn't a simple Declaration be made that Ukraine be neutral? 
The world is seeing what's happening and I believe there ARE plenty in the West too who question the prevailing narrative--which is not 'Western' but *simply the American Neo Cons' narrative*. Time would have solved this problem! But Paranoid warmongering idiots in America couldn't wait!

I'd say keep an eye on the events and run to some remote Pacific Ocean or other remote island nations. We really can't predict what is going to happen now without some 'off ramp' given to Putin.

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## nang2

bobo6661 said:


> Tsar bomb was not a ICBM 🤷‍♂️ was Tsar bomb not a real nuke then?


I am pretty sure Tsar never heard of nuke or ICBM.


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## bobo6661

thetutle said:


> What about you? are you polish? if he asks fir disarmament of Poland and hits a base with a tactical nuke? is it better to Surender and save innocent polish lives or push for a full NATO intervention and all that it would bring?


Let just all surrender xD I realy want my goverment to push for nukes

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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> Why couldn't the West wait till Putin passes away?? Why couldn't a simple Declaration be made that Ukraine be neutral?



This would not stop Putin. He wants the land. Land that in his own words is Russian land. and Ukraine is not a country. He cant be stopped with appeasement. Only force. unfortunately.



bobo6661 said:


> Let just all surrender xD I realy want my goverment to push for nukes


Poland will have to have nukes. You cant rely on USA to launch them. They wont launch them for you. They will fight with you but if you lose the war, its your arse on the line. 

Only polish nukes will deter him. We can see that in Ukraine. if it had its old nukes it would now be a free democratic country.


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## nang2

thetutle said:


> This would not stop Putin. He wants the land. Land that in his own words is Russian land. and Ukraine is not a country. He cant be stopped with appeasement. Only force. unfortunately.
> 
> 
> Poland will have to have nukes. You cant rely on USA to launch them. They wont launch them for you. They will fight with you but if you lose the war, its your arse on the line.
> 
> Only polish nukes will deter him. We can see that in Ukraine. if it had its old nukes it would now be a free democratic country.


Everytime I see the phrase "free democratic", I frown. People really should know that it is an oxymoron.

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## Foinikas

LeGenD said:


> How many Ukrainians are Nazis? What about Russian Nazis?
> 
> @Foinikas
> @Kraetoz
> 
> Any word for this generalization?


I don't know how many,but there were a lot of them in the militias that were fighting in eastern Ukraine. Militias like Azov,Aidar and others had many nationalists and neo-nazis in them.

If you check the memberships,not the voters,just the memberships for Pravii Sektor it's around 10,000 and for Svoboda it was around 15,000 in 2010. National Corps has about 10,000-15,000.

Russian Nazis? If I remember correctly,in the 2000s Russia had about half of Europe's neo-nazi population according to a documentary I had watched on TV back then. But I'm not sure. There are definetely a lot.

The problem is that Ukraine's government was formed of ultranationalists and neo-nazis after 2014. Thousands of these people went to fight against the pro-Russian militias in Donbass,in volunteer units that were incorporated to the National Guard of Ukraine.


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## Meengla

thetutle said:


> Armageddon is living under enslavement by a Russian dictator. There will be nuclear war before that happens. But we wont see it because they will fail in Ukraine and be pushed back eventually.



I generally value your opinions and especially about the eastern European geopolitics and ethnic dimensions. But I believe you have bought a little too much of Bosnia as 'Europe' part of the narrative, drank too much of the 'democracy' Kool-Aid, and living too far from Europe to be truly objective about this conflict. While YOU (and I) live far from the conflict, where the bulk of the humanity lives, including even Pakistan, not that far from the consequences of a nuclear war in Europe. Life, as we know it, will end for most if not all of humanity. Russia truly has the destructive power which is Russia's nuclear blackmail for the world. And you don't seem to grasp the real Armageddon seen on the horizon. 

This war is so unnecessary! A simple neutrality would have done the job. A simple wait-it-out-till-Putin-goes-away would have done the job. But instead you are in some very paranoid mindset about Russia going after NATO countries after Ukraine. Russia is a has-been power and time was already proving it. It could not do and would not do what you have been saying in this forum again and again. 
And your endless faith about 'democracy' is laughable when America supports the most repressive countries like Saudi Arabia for more than half a century and launched abjectly illegal wars like the invasion of Iraq in 2003. The current conflict has its roots in the illegal US invasion of Iraq with destructive consequences for millions of people. Blood on the hands of the Neo Cons whom you indirectly support. 

I know, you know which side YOUR OWN bread is buttered. Bosnia gains by being part of the West and not by being part of a has-been force like Russia. But please don't presume to know the same about the rest of the humanity.

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## A1Kaid

LeGenD said:


> Minimum force? Russian military operation in Ukraine seems to be bigger in scale and scope than Soviet military operation in Afghanistan. Besides directing a large number of Russian troops to this end, Putin administration felt the need to call Belarusian troops, Wagner mercenaries and even Chechens to assist them in Ukraine. Given the size of Russian economy, this is significant deployment to fight a war. Much of Russian navy is deployed in Black Sea as well. Russia have its hands full in Ukraine in short.
> 
> Russia is not equipped to challenge NATO in conventional terms. It can keep NATO at bay with its nuclear force but NATO is not looking forward to invade Russia or something on these lines.
> 
> 
> See above.



Yes it's minimal for a country with 900k active duty soldiers. The invading force they used was 130k troops most of whom are conscripts, paramilitary (Chechens), and some regular military. Ukrainian military in total is 200k active duty soldiers. In the first wave of the invasion they used 1/3 of the 130k, then 2/3rds on the second wave Russia is using their C class army at best to inflict as much damage on Ukrainian military. They barely used any of their air power or naval power.

You also have to keep in mind Russia isn't trying to destroy Ukraine and views eastern Ukrainians as their own people so they aren't as careless as typical invading countries can be.

They are keeping the vast majority of their forces, air and naval power on standby at home such as their 1st armored division. As per NATO, Russia would steamroll most NATO countries only several can put up a real fight outside the US, like Turkey, Germany, France, and UK...

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## mike2000 is back

coffee_cup said:


> Might is right. This is what you saying? And you are fine with it that the country you are serving is nothing but a sham, a con-artist, a pathetic tyrant? And you are fine with the fact that the country you are serving is committing genocides around the world?
> 
> The rest of the world might not be as resourceful (propaganda wise) but will hear no more lectures from those hyenas! I agree, our countries should take a clue and abandon these "democracy" dramas. Learn from the West if you want to develop yourself!
> 
> In the meanwhile deal with Putin, we aint taking no sides. Time, and not propaganda, will tell how it ends...


He is not wrong. The world has always worked like that since mankind was made. Those people that complain are those that are weak and can only ask for mercy and pity from the strong. The strong have the privilege to decide if they will take mercy or pity on you and if they will treat you "fairly" All this talk of "fair play" or "equality" is just a way of the poor and weak asking for a favour from the strong and powerful. Since its the only way the weak can have some form of belonging among this group of nations. it's actually up to the strong to decide if they will grant them this "equality". 
So yes the rule of the world is MIGHT MAKES RIGHT. If Ukraine was a strong powerful country do you think Russia would have dared invade them? If Afghanistan was strong advanced, powerful country do you think US/Russia would have invaded them? Etc etc. 
So yes the strong and mighty can adhere to fairness and equality but that's up to them to decide if they want to do so. It's not up to the weak and poor one to decide. He can only hope they have mercy on him and give him some semblance of equality. That's how the world works unfortunately. Nothing we can do about it as much as we complain and whine about it being "unfair" . Lol

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## Madni Bappa

Tamerlane said:


> Israel is the elephant in the room. People may see it but no one wants to discuss it.
> 
> I would suggest that if people don’t understand the total control of Jews/Israel over the US they will never understand anything going on in the world.
> 
> US policy is Israeli policy. When the US does something we need to ask what Israel’s objective is.
> 
> Jews have a hatred for Russia going back to the time of the czars. The Bolshevik revolution resulted in them killing off the royal family and taking over the country.
> 
> After the end of the USSR the bulk of Russian resources were stolen by the Jewish oligarchs. When Putin threw them out they moved to Israel.
> 
> Then Putin got them angrier by getting involved in Syria and Iran, targets of Israeli regime change.
> 
> The bulk of supremacistsright wingers, white supremacists in the West are on Israeli payroll. That explains why nationalist European politicians mainly target Muslims, never Jews. Traditional nazis obviously hated Jews, but very few of them exist now. The neo-nazis in Ukraine were working under a Jewish President and Prime Minister, so obviously they didn’t have a problem with Jews.
> 
> This war is an Israeli declaration of war on Russia. Nothing short of the collapse of Russia will be tolerated. Putin has to go and a government friendly to Israel has to be installed. They want a penis-piano-playing guy like Jewlensky running Russia. That’s the objective. If Putin survives then Zion will be in a lot of trouble.


Absolutely that's what so many people don't understand.

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## Wood

thetutle said:


> General clark is right when he says, if we are afraid to act because of a nuclear threat, what will we do if he goes after the next country?
> 
> His use of nuclear force should not in any way prevent us from acting. He will use it if he wants to. That is his right and his decision. All we can do in that respect is have retaliatory capabilities ready and all the secret capabilities ready that will deny him the ability to launch as many as possible. Nuclear war is definitely winnable by the US, it always has been. US has always believed that and thats why they have all the things in place if it should ever happen. Obviously best avoided.
> 
> He also says that the future of the western world will depend upon Russia succeeding or failing here in Ukraine. I agree with this.


Throughout the interview, this general looked like he was itching to fight the war against Putin. Start commanding troops left and right 

One good thing he said was that he cannot make any comments about what is the right military plan without being privy to any real time intelligence like people who are in command now. This is something that people in forums like PDF often neglect


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## bobo6661

this is little wagner he is a nice kid from russia














Signs of Neo-Nazi Ideology Amongst Russian Mercenaries


This research is done by Lukas Andriukaitis exclusively for Res Publica – Civic Resilience Center. Lukas Andriukaitis is an open source researcher and trainer, focusing on Kremlin disinformation and military involvement in conflicts around the globe. For the past several years he has focused on...




en.respublica.lt





this is little pavel he is a nice kid that was the leader of donbas






https://euromaidanpress.com/2014/08/18/russian-neo-nazis-in-the-ranks-of-terrorists-in-eastern-ukraine/










Russian National Unity - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




more nice nice russian boys

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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> I generally value your opinions and especially about the eastern European geopolitics and ethnic dimensions. But I believe you have bought a little too much of Bosnia as 'Europe' part of the narrative, drank too much of the 'democracy' Kool-Aid, and living too far from Europe to be truly objective about this conflict. While YOU (and I) live far from the conflict, where the bulk of the humanity lives, including even Pakistan, not that far from the consequences of a nuclear war in Europe. Life, as we know it, will end for most if not all of humanity. Russia truly has the destructive power which is Russia's nuclear blackmail for the world. And you don't seem to grasp the real Armageddon seen on the horizon.
> 
> This war is so unnecessary! A simple neutrality would have done the job. A simple wait-it-out-till-Putin-goes-away would have done the job. But instead you are in some very paranoid mindset about Russia going after NATO countries after Ukraine. Russia is a has-been power and time was already proving it. It could not do and would not do what you have been saying in this forum again and again.
> And your endless faith about 'democracy' is laughable when America supports the most repressive countries like Saudi Arabia for more than half a century and launched abjectly illegal wars like the invasion of Iraq in 2003. The current conflict has its roots in the illegal US invasion of Iraq with destructive consequences for millions of people. Blood on the hands of the Neo Cons whom you indirectly support.
> 
> I know, you know which side YOUR OWN bread is buttered. Bosnia gains by being part of the West and not by being part of a has-been force like Russia. But please don't presume to know the same about the rest of the humanity.


I would only ever live in a democratic country. Anything else would for me be the equivalent of slavery. 

I feel terribly sorry for the people forced to live in US supported dictatorships. Its criminal. But when the US overthrows such a dictatorship, everyone turns on the US.

I bet if US removed the Saudi leadership and replaced them with a democratic government, the same anger would be directed to US again. 

Russias nuclear blackmail can't be stopped with surrender. You must realise that. Only with technological and military dominance. As will be shown in Ukraine. 

BTW, I really do believe in freedom and democracy, I used to live in a communist dictatorship. I would fight to the end to preserve the freedoms that we have. Because I know the difference and Ive tried both.

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## LeGenD

A1Kaid said:


> Yes it's minimal for a country with 900k active duty soldiers. The invading force they used was 130k troops most of whom are conscripts, paramilitary (Chechens), and some regular military. In the first wave of the invasion they used 1/3 of the 130k, then 2/3rds on the second wave Russia is using their C class army at best to inflict as much damage on Ukraine. They barely used any of their air power or naval power.


It is not feasible for Russia to divert its entire army to Ukraine and expose itself in other borders. Russia has dispatched 190,000 troops to Ukraine in total. Rotations and replacement of casualties in Ukraine are important considerations now. Russians have also called in Belarusian troops, Wagner mercenaries and Chechens in Ukraine. This is substantial military deployment and commitment on the whole. Russia is taking Ukraine very seriously in other words.

Russian navy is deployed in Black Sea and actively involved in the war. Russians have used over 600 cruise missiles and ballistic missiles in Ukraine by now. These are safer methods to project power from a distance, to take out high value targets in the process.

Russian Air Force have suffered losses in Ukraine on the other hand. Russians might be reluctant to use it very proactively, therefore.

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## Viet

Paul2 said:


> T-90s of Russia's strongest units were also popped in the first week of war.
> 
> T-90 doesn't bring much on top of T-72 as a chassis, it's mostly new electronics, and a new turret + a better ERA.
> 
> LAWs cannot penetrate T-72 front anyways, so new ERA doesn't make much difference, but everything else is even more vulnerable to modern weapons.
> 
> Very few Russian tanks were lost to tank on tank combat, and those which were, were destroyed by 9k112 tank launched ATGMs, and possibly the new Ukrainian tank launchable Kombat ATGM


On some vids russian tanks are lined up in rows, clearly visible on highways. I believe the Russians themselves think they are the almighty, the Ukrainians are too afraid just run away. I hope the PLA will learn that tactic from Putin.


----------



## Paul2

thetutle said:


> General clark is right when he says, if we are afraid to act because of a nuclear threat, what will we do if he goes after the next country?
> 
> His use of nuclear force should not in any way prevent us from acting. He will use it if he wants to. That is his right and his decision. All we can do in that respect is have retaliatory capabilities ready and all the secret capabilities ready that will deny him the ability to launch as many as possible. Nuclear war is definitely winnable by the US, it always has been. US has always believed that and thats why they have all the things in place if it should ever happen. Obviously best avoided.
> 
> He also says that the future of the western world will depend upon Russia succeeding or failing here in Ukraine. I agree with this.



Simply put it, if Putin was capable of escalating, he would've done so already given how visibly desperate they are.


----------



## thetutle

bobo6661 said:


> this is little wagner he is a nice kid from russia
> View attachment 822738
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Signs of Neo-Nazi Ideology Amongst Russian Mercenaries
> 
> 
> This research is done by Lukas Andriukaitis exclusively for Res Publica – Civic Resilience Center. Lukas Andriukaitis is an open source researcher and trainer, focusing on Kremlin disinformation and military involvement in conflicts around the globe. For the past several years he has focused on...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.respublica.lt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is little pavel he is a nice kid that was the leader of donbas
> View attachment 822741
> 
> 
> 
> https://euromaidanpress.com/2014/08/18/russian-neo-nazis-in-the-ranks-of-terrorists-in-eastern-ukraine/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian National Unity - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> more nice nice russian boys
> 
> View attachment 822742


Its funny how some people think non whites would receive nice treatment from Russians. 

We have seen the encounter of the Chechen family with Russian troops yesterday. The hatred Russian people have for people of colour and muslims generally is probably not found anywhere. 

anyone like to guess ho many muslim groups have been genocided by the Russians? Any guesses?

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## Madni Bappa

thetutle said:


> attacking a democracy


Pot calling kettle black


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501966399098470412

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501970474263265285

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501967817247281158

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## Madni Bappa

dBSPL said:


> (March 10 2022) Lavrov: We have not attacked any country, (bcs we dont see Ukr as a country) and we do not intend to attack
> 
> (March 10, 2023, Doomsday) Lavrov: We have not launched nuclear warheads to any country, man, they are just tactical, and we dont intend to use ICBM
> 
> (2024)


Omg I love that movie.

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## BHAN85

RescueRanger said:


> another problem is Russia has a serious issue with C2 which many are ignoring is this:
> 
> Russia has a serious problem of communication - they are allegedly relying of unencrypted baofeng and Motorola hf radios which are notoriously unreliable in mission critical communication.
> 
> Baofeng UV 82HP
> View attachment 822621
> 
> Secondly the encrypted radios that Russia do have apparently rely of 4G enabled BTS (Base Tower Stations) - as Russians have targeted Ukrainian Teleco BTS - they have discovered they cannot use their shiny encrypted radios.
> 
> Russian Encrypted VHF/UHF Azart Radio:
> Azart 187-P1
> View attachment 822623
> 
> The Azart a sixth-generation digital tactical SDR with built-in encryption designed to provide Russian troops with secure and jam-resistant communications.
> 
> It operates in the very high frequency (VHF)/ultra high frequency (UHF) bands, has a range of 18 km in ground communications depending on configuration, can be used as a repeater station and can utilise GLONASS or GPS to provide positioning.
> 
> R168-25UE:
> The Russians also utilise the R168-25UE at a battalion level which can provide a range of up to 300km depending on configuration:
> View attachment 822622
> 
> 
> The Russians and indeed the Ukrainians too have been utilising satellite phones and ordinary cellphones to communicate.
> 
> Videos from the Russian War Report Wargonzo shows Russian commanders using the Thurya Sat Seleve:
> View attachment 822624
> 
> 
> So why is there such a lack of encrypted military grade communication kit in the Russian military? Reading some Russian radio forums shows that there is a case of rampant corruption in the delivery and procurement of the Azart family of radios in the Russian army:
> 
> Link the the forum for your own reading pleasure: http://www.radioscanner.ru/forum/topic48460-2.html
> 
> An account provided by a captured Russian soldier states, ‘The officers started stationing themselves further and further away from the fighting … they are out of radio range at this point, and no one can contact them’.
> 
> The soldier proceeds to explain that a lack of long-range communications equipment was preventing anyone from contacting the Central Command of the deployed forces.
> 
> It follows that some Russian soldiers may have resorted to the use of mobile phones to communicate with officers and each other in order to gain some situational awareness.
> 
> Radios like the *BaoFeng UV-82HP* will be relatively easy for electronic warfare (EW) practitioners to exploit. Firstly, their lack of discernible military-grade COMSEC/TRANSEC means the radios should be relatively susceptible to straightforward jamming.
> 
> Secondly, this lack of COMSEC/TRANSEC could make it easy to feed false or misleading traffic into networks depending on these radios. This could pay tactical dividends for the Ukrainians, allowing them to sow disorganisation, doubt and demoralisation into Russian units.
> 
> It is highly likely these radios are being used for squad communications at the tactical edge by dismounted infantry. Attacking networks at the tactical edge using these radios could help blunt or slow Russian manoeuvres.
> 
> Moreover, transmissions from these radios could be relatively easy to detect using rudimentary communications intelligence (COMINT) equipment.
> 
> Once these transmissions are detected, COMINT systems could be used to follow the movement of the transmissions, and hence the movements of troops.
> 
> The communication of the Russians is so vulnerable that I was able to pick up a Russian transmission using SDR software where Ukrainians had hijacked comms and played the Ukrainian National Anthem over their transmission:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SndUp | Post info
> 
> 
> Record, upload, share! SndUp is a social network, for audio! We enable you to upload audio clips and share them with the world. Sharing your talent is simple!
> 
> 
> 
> sndup.net



Shocking, UAE has Thuraya, and Russia with one thousand millions and one satellites, doesnt have a similar system?.

Russian soldiers can make a crowdfunding and make their own wifi mesh system with encrypted voice comm, it's something so cheap and widely available nowadays that is hard to understand.


----------



## LeGenD

A1Kaid said:


> You also have to keep in mind Russia isn't trying to destroy Ukraine and views eastern Ukrainians as their own people so they aren't as careless as typical invading countries can be.
> 
> They are keeping the vast majority of their forces, air and naval power on standby at home such as their 1st armored division. As per NATO, Russia would steamroll most NATO countries only several can put up a real fight outside the US, like Turkey, Germany, France, and UK...



No, Russia is *not* showing leniency in Ukraine:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Chechnyan forces assisting civilians in Kiev



defence.pk





Russia *cannot* take Ukraine lightly because it is loosing troops and equipment on a daily basis.

Statistics for reference:









Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine







www.oryxspioenkop.com





Russian losses are staggering and will be unbearable at this rate.

Russian Air Force have suffered losses in Ukraine as well:









The Russian Air Force Just Had A Terrible Day Over Ukraine


Russia looks to have lost multiple combat jets, helicopters, and a drone in just the past day or so.




www.thedrive.com





Russian navy is deployed in Black Sea and actively involved in the war. Russian navy is used to counter Ukrainian naval activity, enforce blockade, and to engage high value targets in Ukraine with cruise missiles.

Russians are also using ballistic missiles to strike at high value targets in Ukraine.

This war is as intense as it can get.



A1Kaid said:


> As per NATO, Russia would steamroll most NATO countries only several can put up a real fight outside the US, like Turkey, Germany, France, and UK...



NATO did not make this claim but RAND which is a Think Tank. It is laughable assessment. Russia cannot steamroll Baltics. Too much terrain to cover and NATO will destroy much of Russian army in the process.


----------



## nang2

LeGenD said:


> This war is as intense as it can get.


No it is not. Check China-Vietnam conflict in 1979. 27 days only. China alone suffered 30K casualty by its own estimate.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501956398355210249


----------



## dBSPL

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501938378878558220Igor found the easter egg.


Well, another easter egg found

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501970791872749569
War is boring, but if you dnt have Russian style humor.


----------



## Wood

I remember RT now celebrating US troop casualties in Afghanistan. Now it is the turn for CNN to do the same.

About 15K Soviet troops are said to have been killed in Afghanistan. Hope the Russians have the sense to abandon this campaign before their losses inevitably crawl up to that figure

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RescueRanger

Ladies and gentlemen I present a very stable genius:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501733405423251456

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## LeGenD

nang2 said:


> No it is not. Check China-Vietnam conflict in 1979. 27 days only. China alone suffered 30K casualty by its own estimate.


Chinese military technologies were much less capable back then. Conflicts in Vietnam were infantry-focused as well.


----------



## Meengla

thetutle said:


> I would only ever live in a democratic country. Anything else would for me be the equivalent of slavery.
> 
> I feel terribly sorry for the people forced to live in US supported dictatorships. Its criminal. But when the US overthrows such a dictatorship, everyone turns on the US.
> 
> I bet if US removed the Saudi leadership and replaced them with a democratic government, the same anger would be directed to US again.
> 
> Russias nuclear blackmail can't be stopped with surrender. You must realise that. Only with technological and military dominance. As will be shown in Ukraine.
> 
> BTW, I really do believe in freedom and democracy, I used to live in a communist dictatorship. I would fight to the end to preserve the freedoms that we have. Because I know the difference and Ive tried both.



Pakistan has been, despite all it's fault, far more democratic than you Balkan people ever knew. Pakistan never tolerated its dictators for long but we know the Yugoslavia history!! That's for another topic though.

I repeat, you have drank a lot of Kool Aid. This war was unnecessary and I would BET if and only if America had not pushed for it then all of Europe and people like you living in a safe distance in Australia would oppose the war. And if America today decides to make some kind of 'deal' with Russia then the tune of people like you would change quickly. Time was the solution but YOU never saw that! A post Putin Russia would become part of Europe organically but you keep coming up with some bizarre theories about Russia gobbling up even the NATO countries! 
An opinion, based on the driven agenda from a few hundred Neo Cons, is pretty malleable!

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> Well, another easter egg found
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501970791872749569
> War is boring, but if you dnt have Russian style humor.


Seriously Russia should just delete their army at this point. 😂

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## nang2

LeGenD said:


> Chinese military technologies were much less capable back then. Conflicts in Vietnam were infantry-focused as well.


Who cares about the technologies? It is the life we are talking about. If not, then video war games would be the most intense.


----------



## LeGenD

nang2 said:


> Who cares about the technologies? It is the life we are talking about. If not, then video war games would be the most intense.


You missed the point.


----------



## dBSPL

RescueRanger said:


> Seriously Russia should just delete their army at this point. 😂


Here I wrote something about the extent of corruption in the Russian army on the 3rd day of the war. Unfortunately, this is a situation that has shown itself from time to time in the history of the Russian army. I think it's going to be a big purge after war, may be even before the end of war.

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## nang2

LeGenD said:


> You missed the point.


And you missed mine.


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501957170157568011

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## Vergennes

lmao everyone in Ukraine has now some sort of anti tank weapons


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501967817247281158

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501973588752179201


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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> Pakistan has been, despite all it's fault, far more democratic than you Balkan people ever knew. Pakistan never tolerated its dictators for long but we know the Yugoslavia history!!


I dont deny this. 


Meengla said:


> And if America today decides to make some kind of 'deal' with Russia then the tune of people like you would change quickly.


it would be sad if a deal was made. It would be repeating the mistakes made with Poland and abandoning them to the soviets. 

No nation that wants freedom should be ensalved by the Russians. 

I think this is going very well. terrible price is being paid, but its the only hope for a free Europe. 

I think Putin miscalculated so bad, he was doing very well dividing Europe, alsmot made nato obsolete. had a grip over several EU countries. But miscalculated soooo badly. It was a nato trap.

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## LeGenD

nang2 said:


> And you missed mine.


Your comparison does not make sense.

How many tanks China could dispatch to Vietnam? How capable were these back then?
How many jet fighters China could dispatch to Vietnam? How capable were these back then?
Did China had cruise missiles back then?
Did China had highly accurate ballistic missiles back then?
Did China had network-centric warfare capabilities back then?
Did China had precision munitions back then?

Chinese troops (infantry) were EXPOSED to gunfire, shelling and traps inside Vietnamese terrain on a broader level. Vietnamese terrain restricts mechanized movements in fact. This is the reason for China loosing so many men in Vietnam in a span of 30 days.

You cannot compare Chinese forces of the 1970s to Russian forces in the present. Technologies have changed on all counts. Russian forces could strike at numerous targets inside Ukraine from a safe distance using cruise missiles and ballistic missiles. Russian troops move with tanks and armored vehicles for protection and cover. Russian forces use jet fighters, UAVs, tanks, armored vehicles, helicopters gunships and heavy artillery to soften enemy positions when spotted. Russian forces have advanced surveillance capabilities to monitor enemy movements inside Ukraine and decide their course of action accordingly. Russians will not loose troops in Ukraine at the same rate as the Chinese did in Vietnam, therefore.

Russian losses are heavy in Ukraine in the context of modern warfare.


----------



## Mujahid Memon

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501659933162586117


Mulk jang me hai aur in logo ko chaddiyon ki pari hai


----------



## kingQamaR

Sadly, Pootin is following his past behavior in Allepo and Chechnya. Scorched earth. Kill all living organisms. Long pattern more consistent with patho-psychological

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## Beast

thetutle said:


> In your world view defence of Ukraine is the equivalent as attacking pearl harbour.
> 
> In my word view, attacking a democracy is the red line warranting full intervention.
> 
> It wont happen. They will instead wear Putin down slowly.


Don't deluded yourself. There is no democracy in Ukraine or so called but stage orange revolution. If you want the world go into Armageddon with nuke throwing around as a mad man. Go ahead and ignore Putin warning. 

Ukraine is just 1km away from Russia territory. While when has Russia ever threaten even 1km away from Pearl harbour?

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## kingQamaR

Putin will be running out of generals at this rate. Those that don't die on the battlefield are fired...

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## thetutle

Beast said:


> Don't deluded yourself. There is no democracy in Ukraine or so called but stage orange revolution. If you want the world go into Armageddon with nuke throwing around as a mad man. Go ahead and ignore Putin warning.
> 
> Ukraine is just 1km away from Russia territory. While when has Russia ever threaten even 1km away from Pearl harbour?


He is a guy that is finished. he wont come closer than 20 meters to his own generals. He's more scared of his own people than NATO now. 

if he gets out of this he's a magician. 

the way he treated the FSB guy on TV, that tells us there are real divisions between FSB and military. 

Russia might have a civil war if sanctions continue. Plus there is CIA strring things up, making promises and bribing people. 

He must be desperate to make these nuclear threats.

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## sur

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501957499448180745

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Foinikas

bobo6661 said:


> this is little wagner he is a nice kid from russia
> View attachment 822738
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Signs of Neo-Nazi Ideology Amongst Russian Mercenaries
> 
> 
> This research is done by Lukas Andriukaitis exclusively for Res Publica – Civic Resilience Center. Lukas Andriukaitis is an open source researcher and trainer, focusing on Kremlin disinformation and military involvement in conflicts around the globe. For the past several years he has focused on...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.respublica.lt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is little pavel he is a nice kid that was the leader of donbas
> View attachment 822741
> 
> 
> 
> https://euromaidanpress.com/2014/08/18/russian-neo-nazis-in-the-ranks-of-terrorists-in-eastern-ukraine/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian National Unity - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> more nice nice russian boys
> 
> View attachment 822742


I think Moscow or Russia in general had 50,000 Neo-nazis. That's what I heard in that documentary I watched many years ago.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

LeGenD said:


> Russians have called in Belarusian troops, Wagner mercenaries, and Chechens to fight in Ukraine. This war is stress-testing Russia unlike any other in its history since 1992.


Factually incorrect according to your media. They just said Belarusian troops have refused to participate.



https://www.israelhayom.com/2022/03/07/defections-and-resignations-in-belarusian-military-prevented-country-from-joining-ukraine-invasion/











Belarusian military reluctant to join Vladimir Putin’s Ukraine War


Belarus was widely expected to join the Russian invasion of Ukraine but indications are growing that the Belarusian military is strongly opposed to any involvement in Vladimir Putin's war of aggression.




www.atlanticcouncil.org





So which is it, are Belarusian troops involved on Russia's side or not?

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## Foinikas

thetutle said:


> He is a guy that is finished. he wont come closer than 20 meters to his own generals. He's more scared of his own people than NATO now.
> 
> if he gets out of this he's a magician.
> 
> the way he treated the FSB guy on TV, that tells us there are real divisions between FSB and military.


That's bullshit though.



kingQamaR said:


> Sadly, Pootin is following his past behavior in Allepo and Chechnya. Scorched earth. Kill all living organisms. Long pattern more consistent with patho-psychological


Give me a break...stop smoking that weed.

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## A1Kaid

LeGenD said:


> It is not feasible for Russia to divert its entire army to Ukraine and expose itself in other borders. Russia has dispatched 190,000 troops to Ukraine in total. Rotations and replacement of casualties in Ukraine are important considerations now. Russians have also called in Belarusian troops, Wagner mercenaries and Chechens in Ukraine. This is substantial military deployment and commitment on the whole. Russia is taking Ukraine very seriously in other words.
> 
> Russian navy is deployed in Black Sea and actively involved in the war. Russians have used over 600 cruise missiles and ballistic missiles in Ukraine by now. These are safer methods to project power from a distance, to take out high value targets in the process.
> 
> Russian Air Force have suffered losses in Ukraine on the other hand. Russians might be reluctant to use it very proactively, therefore.



Use of naval and air power has been pretty limited and use of naval power in Black Sea came later in the invasion. That’s what those pro-western articles don’t tell you. Again they have been fighting this war with their C grade forces.

As of today Russia has blocked off and controls much of Ukraine’s southern coast, and pretty much everything east of the Dneiper river and that’s with limited force.

Russian losses have been exaggerated as of today they’ve only lost 5% of their invasion force. How much has Ukraine lost?

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## Wood




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## LeGenD

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Factually incorrect according to your media. They just said Belarusian troops have refused to participate.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.israelhayom.com/2022/03/07/defections-and-resignations-in-belarusian-military-prevented-country-from-joining-ukraine-invasion/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Belarusian military reluctant to join Vladimir Putin’s Ukraine War
> 
> 
> Belarus was widely expected to join the Russian invasion of Ukraine but indications are growing that the Belarusian military is strongly opposed to any involvement in Vladimir Putin's war of aggression.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.atlanticcouncil.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So which is it, are Belarusian troops involved on Russia's side or not?


Belarusian troops were spotted inside Ukraine but they were probably called off due to sanctions imposed on Belarus.

Russian Wagner Group and Chechens are operating inside Ukraine for sure.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501988594130604033

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501978908060798983

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501955780437757954

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## Foinikas

Wood said:


>


VICE news? They were pro-Ukrainian in 2014 and when they don't talk about drug users,gay rights,transexuals in conservative countries and leftist weirdos,they start the anti-Russian rhetoric and record Azov batallion fighting.

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## Tamerlane

Meengla said:


> So my liberal, staunchly Democrat neighbor friend was over last night
> ...
> *And he also said that it is the Neo Cons who have pushed Biden to such aggressive policies just as they pushed Obama to let CIA topple the pro Russia govt in 2014.*



I'm glad you posted that. An average Democratic voting American is saying that the the neocons made America do this. In case people are unsure, "neocon" is another word for "Jew."

The word neocon, (neo-conservative), originally referred to Jews who used to be part of the Democratic left-wing. They joined the Republican party during the time of Ronald Reagan, hence called "new conservative."

They were the ones in the Republican party who were in the forefront of promoting 9/11 and the wars on Muslim countries.

Now all the warmongering Jews in the US are called neocons irrespective of which party they belong to. It's a codeword for Israel-first, war promoting Jews in the US. But saying the "J" word is too scary for the average American, so they say neocon.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501871280152367107

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## OldTwilight

Well , Russian army performance is not as good at it was excepted , but for russians , this is good , at least they have time to correct it before a serious war which threaten their heartland ...

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## Wood




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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501673748151390214

Reactions: Like Like:
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## kingQamaR

Beast said:


> Don't deluded yourself. There is no democracy in Ukraine or so called but stage orange revolution. If you want the world go into Armageddon with nuke throwing around as a mad man. Go ahead and ignore Putin warning.
> 
> Ukraine is just 1km away from Russia territory. While when has Russia ever threaten even 1km away from Pearl harbour?



Oh for goodness sake, this propaganda may have worked in WW2, but does he not realise that today we have satellites, that are allowing us to see exactly what they are doing?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501989829172551683


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501959155061563393


----------



## The SC

Russian Defense: Today we destroyed 3 Bayraktar drones in Ukraine #Al-Arabiya_Urgent https://alarabiya.net


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501970815956443140

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## nang2

LeGenD said:


> Your comparison does not make sense.
> 
> How many tanks China could dispatch to Vietnam? How capable were these back then?
> How many jet fighters China could dispatch to Vietnam? How capable were these back then?
> Did China had cruise missiles back then?
> Did China had highly accurate ballistic missiles back then?
> Did China had network-centric warfare capabilities back then?
> Did China had precision munitions back then?
> 
> Chinese troops (infantry) were EXPOSED to gunfire, shelling and traps inside Vietnamese terrain on a broader level. Vietnamese terrain restricts mechanized movements in fact. This is the reason for China loosing so many men in Vietnam in a span of 30 days.
> 
> You cannot compare Chinese forces of the 1970s to Russian forces in the present. Technologies have changed on all counts. Russian forces could strike at numerous targets inside Ukraine from a safe distance using cruise missiles and ballistic missiles. Russian troops move with tanks and armored vehicles for protection and cover. Russian forces use jet fighters, UAVs, tanks, armored vehicles, helicopters gunships and heavy artillery to soften enemy positions when spotted. Russian forces have advanced surveillance capabilities to monitor enemy movements inside Ukraine and decide their course of action accordingly. Russians will not loose troops in Ukraine at the same rate as the Chinese did in Vietnam, therefore.
> 
> Russian losses are heavy in Ukraine in the context of modern warfare.


You win a war by killing people, not by destroying tanks or whatever fancy toys you would like to destroy. People without tanks can still find some other way to fight. Tanks without people are just piles of junk.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501998051141029890

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501992200321871876

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## kingQamaR

Worlds worst Army. Maybe if the Ukranians leave bottles of Vodka by the roadside it will slow them down even more.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501992039264698371

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## bobo6661

kingQamaR said:


> Worlds worst Army. Maybe if the Ukranians leave bottles of Vodka by the roadside it will slow them down even more.


Good idea poland should supply now more vodka to ukraine

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501994155882557442


----------



## BHAN85

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501673748151390214


Give a weapon to that woman and send her to a warzone, she can defeat any army she alone with his speeches.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501996642911895559

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## BHAN85

bobo6661 said:


> Good idea poland should supply now more vodka to ukraine


Vodka, heroin and whores infected of venereal disease.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501992461534744580


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502002256035594247


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502002865992310786

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501992825600233475
US collecting evidence of war crimes by Russian leaders

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## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501992825600233475
> US collecting evidence of war crimes by Russian leaders


Putler will be jailed

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501967817247281158
RPO PDM-A, RPO-A , Panzer Faust 3, RPG-7, NLAW, MANPADS (stinger?)


----------



## bobo6661




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501963984085434369


mmr said:


> Putler will be jailed




This is the most well documented war in human history. Russia is commiting mass war crimes

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## LeGenD

A1Kaid said:


> Use of naval and air power has been pretty limited and use of naval power in Black Sea came later in the invasion. That’s what those pro-western articles don’t tell you. Again they have been fighting this war with their C grade forces.
> 
> As of today Russia has blocked off and controls much of Ukraine’s southern coast, eastern territories and everything east of the Dneiper river and that’s with limited force.
> 
> Russian losses have been exaggerated as of today they’ve only lost 5% of their invasion force. How much has Ukraine lost?



Russian Air Force is much less capable than its NATO counterpart:









Russia’s Involvement In Syria Proves That It's Far Behind The Western World


Russia has made a lot of noise about the modern weapons it has used during combat in Syria and how effective these new weapons are. Fresh Su-34 attack jets scream through the skies, while the latest in small arms test their mettle. But the reality is most of what Russia has used is not as shiny...




jalopnik.com





Russian Air Force have suffered losses over Ukraine:









The Russian Air Force Just Had A Terrible Day Over Ukraine


Russia looks to have lost multiple combat jets, helicopters, and a drone in just the past day or so.




www.thedrive.com













Russian aircraft losses in Ukraine ‘unsustainable for more than a fortnight’


Verified images show 11 planes, 11 helicopters and two drones have been shot down since invasion began, including nine at the weekend




www.telegraph.co.uk









__





List of aircraft losses during the Russo-Ukrainian War - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





This might be the reason why Russian Air Force is not very active in Ukraine airspace.

Russian forces are using *cruise missiles* and *ballistic missiles* as much safer alternatives to strike at high value targets inside Ukraine:

_The U.S. military now assesses that the Kremlin has committed almost 100 percent of the forces it had arrayed around Ukraine in recent months and that it has lost around five percent of that combat capacity since the invasion began. Russian forces have now launched more than 670 ballistic and cruise missiles against Ukrainian targets, according to the Pentagon and appears to be stepping up those and other kinds of strikes._









Russia's Invasion Of Ukraine Turns Two Weeks Old


Here's our latest update on what is happening in the conflict in Ukraine, which has now entered its 14th day.




www.thedrive.com





- - - -

Russian C grade forces are equipped with latest Russian AK-12 rifles, sophisticated main battle tanks including T-90 variants, different types of helicopter gunships, and heavy artillery pieces including TOS-1A MLRS ???









Captured Russian AK-12 Rifles Appear To Be The Trophy Guns Of Choice For Ukrainians


Captured Russian AK-12 assault rifles are becoming practical trophies for Ukrainian officials and troops.




www.thedrive.com


















Ukraine war: Drone footage shows Russian tank column retreat after artillery ambush


The footage, taken from a Ukrainian drone, shows the Russian tank column thrown into disarray by the attack as artillery shells and rockets explode around them.




news.sky.com













New Helicopter Units Appear To Be Joining Russian Forces Massing On Ukraine’s Borders


The apparent forward deployment of additional rotorcraft boosts Russian air assault assets on Ukraine’s doorstep.




www.thedrive.com





WRONG, my friend.

- - - -

I am well-aware of Russian military movements inside Ukraine. I can check mapping sources myself.

My thread for reference:





__





Repository of journalistic sources and how to use them with Russia - Ukraine War in focus and Fact-checking considerations


Dear members, Some members complain about the issue of reporting bias (and propaganda) in journalistic contents. These complaints were noticed in the following thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/ This thread is created to address the...



defence.pk





Russian forces have advances to show on the ground in Ukraine (huge number of troops involved) but this war has proved very costly to Russia on all counts as well. Russia has also earned the trophy of becoming the most heavily sanctioned country in the world due to this war effort.

- - - -

How cute.









Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine







www.oryxspioenkop.com





Russian equipment losses in Ukraine in a span of 13 days:

Tanks = 164
Armored Vehicles = 352
Logistics Vehicles = 303
Mobile A2/AD systems = 37
Engineering vehicles = 36
Towed Artillery = 26
Self-propelled Artillery = 25
MLRS = 19
Aircraft = 12
Helicopters = 11
Communication Stations = 8
UAV = 3
Logistics Trains = 2
Jamming Systems = 1

*NOTE:* Actual count is higher than the aforementioned figures but contents are being processed for verification.

No big deal, right?

From one of the links shared above:

_Russia's invasion of Ukraine kicked off two weeks ago, although it feels like much longer ago. The Kremlin's advances on the ground appear to have largely stalled out in the face of Ukrainian resistance and major supply chain problems. Its forces have now shifted their focus to a brutal campaign of encircling and bombarding major cities. At the same time, the United States and other countries continue to levy new sanctions on Russia and work to isolate it politically on the international stage while pouring thousands of weapons into the country to support Ukraine's defense._

Russians have also lost thousands of troops in Ukraine by now:









More Russian troops were killed in Ukraine in 2 weeks than U.S. troops in entire Iraq War, U.S. estimates


More Russian troops were killed in Ukraine in 2 weeks than U.S. troops in entire Iraq War, U.S. estimates




news.yahoo.com













Fuming Putin fires generals over invasion losses, says Ukraine


Vladimir Putin has gone on a tear, firing as many as eight generals over Moscow’s military losses in the invasion of Ukraine, Kyiv’s defense chief claims.




nypost.com













Vitaly Gerasimov: second Russian general killed, Ukraine defence ministry claims


Ukrainian intelligence says major general in Russia’s 41st army died outside Kharkiv along with other senior officers




www.theguardian.com





All of the above is no issue, right?

Wasn't Russia supposed to steamroll Ukraine and NATO by extension?

Vladimir Putin have grossly miscalculated his options in Ukraine; Russian prestige is on the line now. RAND fooled him perhaps.

This war will haunt Russians in the years to come. My sympathies are with Russian commoners.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501982876644040709

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502009093673865223

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## Foinikas

mmr said:


> Putler will be jailed


And what about Bush,Clinton and Albright?

Can someone find this video?

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501994155882557442



This operation is turning into a whole circus,I would laugh if Ukrainians weren't suffering because of the Russian invasion.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501763583117389827


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502006304654696455

Huge losses for Russia today

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## Vergennes

The "world's second most powerful army" getting humiliated by drunk farmers and bunch of gopniks.

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> This operation is turning into a whole circus,I would laugh if Ukrainians weren't suffering because of the Russian invasion.



Massive losses for Russia today


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502012142228324362


----------



## gambit

A1Kaid said:


> Yes it's minimal for a country with 900k active duty soldiers. The invading force they used was 130k troops most of whom are conscripts, paramilitary (Chechens), and some regular military. Ukrainian military in total is 200k active duty soldiers. In the first wave of the invasion they used 1/3 of the 130k, then 2/3rds on the second wave Russia is using their C class army at best to inflict as much damage on Ukrainian military. They barely used any of their air power or naval power.
> 
> You also have to keep in mind *Russia isn't trying to destroy Ukraine* and views eastern Ukrainians as their own people so they aren't as careless as typical invading countries can be.
> 
> They are keeping the vast majority of their forces, air and naval power on standby at home such as their 1st armored division. As per NATO, Russia would steamroll most NATO countries only several can put up a real fight outside the US, like Turkey, Germany, France, and UK...


With each 24 hrs passed, this argument (highlighted) become increasingly less tenable. Am going to look at this from an airpower perspective.






Ukraine is a sophisticated country. More than Iraq and definitely more than Afghanistan. Why does this matter? Because the more sophisticated a country, the greater its wealth are concentrated in the cities, and Russia is slowly destroying the cities via first encirclement then artillery to reduce the cities to rubble. Essentially, destroying the country's wealth.

The longer the absence of Russian airpower over Ukraine per the relative power levels chart above, the greater the intensity and destruction of ground Ukraine if Russia is going to commit their 1st tier combat forces *LATER* as you posited.

Airpower requires the best of everything a country has just to create a basic air force. It is only when an air force meet against another air force in combat is when that sophistication manifest in a binary win or lose outcome, and because airpower operate at higher speed of operations than other powers, airpower have a greater affect on time than other powers. In simpler language, the sooner you take control of an airspace, the more time you give to ground forces, especially if they are directly below the contested airspace. Because airpower operate at speed greater than other forces, when an air force attack a ground force, time is compressed for the enemy ground force. Each attack is faster than the ground forces can response. The only respite the ground force have is when the attacker reorient himself to attack again. But if there are multiple air attackers, the ground forces will have no respite at all. Ask the Iraqi Army for this experience.

In the air, there is no negotiated settlement possible. Either you win or you lose, and if you lose, you die. Am not saying the pilot die, even though he often does, but that you lose a valuable asset: the pilot-aircraft asset. Without one, the other is useless. An aircraft is not like a rifle where anyone can learn how to become lethal in one day. An aircraft require complex and sophisticated training methodologies and time in order for that pilot-aircraft combination to become valuable, so instead of one day it is more like one yr.

Currently, air forces all over the world are seeing 'Air parity' in Ukraine when it should be 'Air supremacy' in Russia's favor. Each air asset that Russia lose, whether fixed or rotary wing, in this slow march that you are saying for Russia in order to conserve forces, it will be tougher for Russia to subjugate Ukraine and greater destruction on Ukrainian wealth which equals to destroying Ukraine. What am saying is that to give your argument validity, that Russia is not seeking to destroy Ukraine but only capitulation thru ground pressure, Russian airpower should have been at the 'Air superiority - Air denial' on the first day and escalated to 'Air supremacy - Air incapability' on the second day.

Does this mean Russia cannot win? Russia will win even at this pace. But the longer this 'Air parity - Air parity' status exists, Ukraine will suffer greater destruction as time go by as Russian ground forces struggles against Ukrainian ground forces because Russian airpower is not putting enough pressure on Ukrainian ground forces. The longer this 'Air parity - Air parity' status exists, the less impressive the VKS will be. The negative impression maybe unwarranted, but it will occur even if Russia eventually raised that status in its favor. The airpower lesson here is this: achieve Air Superiority ASAP no matter what may happen on the ground.

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## Vergennes

It seems among the whole russian armed forces,the chechens have the highest morale..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501896643469262859

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## nang2

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502012142228324362


What matters in a sanction isn't the head count. It is the money count.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501991763602464768


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501896298584174596


nang2 said:


> What matters in a sanction isn't the head count. It is the money count.


I understand that.. they might represent only 14% of the world population .. but they control 40% of world economy.. more or less!

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501955491467075585

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## Madni Bappa

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501896298584174596
> 
> I understand that.. they might represent only 14% of the world population .. but they control 40% of world economy.. more or less!


Then there's rest of 60% market share in the world to be hunted and chased after.


----------



## BHAN85

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501955491467075585


I've never seen Putin talking about cryptoscams, only cryptoscammers talking about Putin.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502003916002762755

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501676038090379267
Just add one more Z on those t-shirts and change chant to hail


----------



## TheNoob

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501676038090379267
> Just add one more Z on those t-shirts and change chant to hail


The guy who wrote the tweet is disgusting and making me sick.


Smh


----------



## Dalit

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502002865992310786



Is this the same guy who visited Pakistan and pleaded for military bases?


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

Vergennes said:


> This operation is turning into a whole circus,I would laugh if Ukrainians weren't suffering because of the Russian invasion.



So instead of wasting money on ugly tanktraps we should simply invest in making mudflats.

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## bobo6661

TheNoob said:


> The guy who wrote the tweet is disgusting and making me sick.
> 
> 
> Smh


no idea who that is 🤷‍♂️


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502030285436772359

Russian "progress" has been brutally slow in recent days.


----------



## comci

Ich said:


> Do you really believe this numbers?



Ofcourse this Vietnamese believed the numbers. Hell, he believed the numbers even before the newspapers reported the numbers. After all he is pro NATO so he believes anything NATO countries stated as ''facts''. Dont ever doubt his intelligence.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502026854882066432

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## lightning F57

Regardless of nationality, tribalism, one should never turn a blind eye to oppression wherever it is.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502033063831871497

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502032038051860483

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502032708960202757

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## Wood

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501676038090379267
> Just add one more Z on those t-shirts and change chant to hail







Imagine a world where Faux news is your only source for information.. that seems to Russia 



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502033063831871497


haha.. I suspect that these fellows were running an organized disinformation campaign for FSB.

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## Vergennes

Well, things excalated quickly!

Central african armed forces are expriming their will to help Russia against "Ukrainian nationalists".

I've made a quick translation of their little speech ;

"Dear Russian brother of arms we are aware of what is happening in Ukraine... Russian soldiers are conducting military operations to bring peace and order against Ukrainian nationalists. 

We,African soldiers,are ready to go and support our Russian brothers,dear Russian brothers don't give up,we africans are soon coming,courage courage courage..."


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502007767556669444

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## bobo6661

Wood said:


> Imagine a world where Faux news is your only source for information.. that seems to Russia


When i see CNN on the label i run away as fast as i can 😂

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## Wood

bobo6661 said:


> When i see CNN on the label i run away as fast as i can 😂


I will not hold that against you for that either


----------



## Clutch

Latest Oliver Stone documentary on Ukraine


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502029225720791046

Trent worked in the US DOD for over 30 years.

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## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> Well, things excalated quickly!
> 
> Central african armed forces are expriming their will to help Russia against "Ukrainian nationalists".
> 
> I've made a quick translation of their little speech ;
> 
> "Dear Russian brother of arms we are aware of what is happening in Ukraine... Russian soldiers are conducting military operations to bring peace and order against Ukrainian nationalists.
> 
> We,African soldiers,are ready to go and support our Russian brothers,dear Russian brothers don't give up,we africans are soon coming,courage courage courage..."
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502007767556669444


lol, can someone in Washington after they have their morning coffee, please push a button and order an airstrike against these people.


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502032038051860483
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502032708960202757


They seem to be the most successful of all the military groups in russian camp rn....


----------



## A1Kaid

March 10 update, virtually all land east of Dneiper river is under Russian control. Kyiv and Kharkiv will be captured soon. Negotiations will then start and Ukraine will formally accept Crimea and eastern Ukraine states as independent republics among other agreements. Russia has also captured the most oil rich parts of Ukraine.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501964195608371200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502033573695655943

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502023291594182660

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Kharkiv frontline.. Seems like the Russians have pinned down the Ukrainians inside the city 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502000265490227206

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## bobo6661

Foinikas said:


> I saw this from a friend's post
> 
> View attachment 822648
> 
> 
> View attachment 822649


here for you the nice russians telling this girl to die and that they will find her and kill her 









Read and Share Twitter Threads easily!


Thread Reader helps you read and share the best of Twitter Threads




threadreaderapp.com





her insta 
https://www.instagram.com/gixie_beauty/ 

so looks like russian trash campaign to save face

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## Wergeland 2.0

A1Kaid said:


> View attachment 822811
> 
> 
> March 10 update, virtually all land east of Dneiper river is under Russian control. Kyiv and Kharkiv will be captured soon. Negotiations will then start and Ukraine will formally accept Crimea and eastern Ukraine states as independent republics among other agreements. Russia has also captured the most oil rich parts of Ukraine.



After reading all that pro-Ukrainian regime propaganda and its eccentric cheerleaders it surely sounds like Russia and its army were on the verge of collapse.

Then you get hit by reality and maps like this.
Propagandists really has no shame.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502036358747074561

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502040214826532872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502035167006933001


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502041637962371080


Wergeland 2.0 said:


> I am not saying Putin is following this antifragile concept wittingly.
> 
> What you mentioned about the Russian Army and society, and its shortmings..if thats the case it would only strengthen a antifragile methodology. If there is no pain there is no gain. You cannot strengthen a system before testing it and see its weak points.
> 
> That being said,
> 
> 
> After reading all that pro-Ukrainian regime propaganda and its eccentric cheerleaders it surely sounds like Russia and its army were on the verge of collapse.
> 
> Then you get hit by reality and maps like this.
> Propagandists really has no shame.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502030285436772359

That map is not accurate whatsoever. Russian progress has been brutally slow in recent days.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502036358747074561
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502040214826532872
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502035167006933001

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## coffee_cup

mike2000 is back said:


> He is not wrong. The world has always worked like that since mankind was made. Those people that complain are those that are weak and can only ask for mercy and pity from the strong. The strong have the privilege to decide if they will take mercy or pity on you and if they will treat you "fairly" All this talk of "fair play" or "equality" is just a way of the poor and weak asking for a favour from the strong and powerful. Since its the only way the weak can have some form of belonging among this group of nations. it's actually up to the strong to decide if they will grant them this "equality".
> So yes the rule of the world is MIGHT MAKES RIGHT. If Ukraine was a strong powerful country do you think Russia would have dared invade them? If Afghanistan was strong advanced, powerful country do you think US/Russia would have invaded them? Etc etc.
> So yes the strong and mighty can adhere to fairness and equality but that's up to them to decide if they want to do so. It's not up to the weak and poor one to decide. He can only hope they have mercy on him and give him some semblance of equality. That's how the world works unfortunately. Nothing we can do about it as much as we complain and whine about it being "unfair" . Lol



Its a good lesson brother.

We need to teach this in our schools.

And also the importance of keeping media under control so that it spreads systematic lies playing all sorts of psychological tricks on general public to keep them in line. 

Just like the West has brainwashed its people to the extent that they see black as white or white as black if the media tells them to.

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## Ali_Baba

Russia has fired 'about EIGHT' generals for failing to 'complete the task' of taking Ukraine​








Putin 'fires eight generals and rages at FSB' over Ukraine failures


Vladimir Putin has fired eight of his generals, Ukraine has claimed, and is said to be furious at his security services for feeding him bogus intelligence before he decided to invade Ukraine.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## Foinikas

bobo6661 said:


> here for you the nice russians telling this girl to die and that they will find her and kill her
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read and Share Twitter Threads easily!
> 
> 
> Thread Reader helps you read and share the best of Twitter Threads
> 
> 
> 
> 
> threadreaderapp.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> her insta
> https://www.instagram.com/gixie_beauty/
> 
> so looks like russian trash campaign to save face


Here's another one for you:

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## Indian Libertarian

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502035377762177040








Facebook allows war posts urging violence against Russian invaders


Meta Platforms will allow Facebook and Instagram users in some countries to call for violence against Russians and Russian soldiers in the context of the Ukraine invasion, according to internal emails seen by Reuters on Thursday, in a temporary change to its hate speech policy.




www.reuters.com


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## bobo6661

Foinikas said:


> Here's another one for you:


😂 maybe tomorow now im seeply

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501917300676571140
No idea what they saying and no idea how they know it's the school basement 🤷‍♂️


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## Wergeland 2.0

Ali_Baba said:


> Russia has fired 'about EIGHT' generals for failing to 'complete the task' of taking Ukraine​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin 'fires eight generals and rages at FSB' over Ukraine failures
> 
> 
> Vladimir Putin has fired eight of his generals, Ukraine has claimed, and is said to be furious at his security services for feeding him bogus intelligence before he decided to invade Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk



I heard it was 180 generals he has fired so far. Its not normal for a highly acclaimed and non-tabloid news paper like Daily Mail to do this type of mistakes. Surely it must have been a typo.

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## The SC

Director of US Intelligence: We do not want the war in Ukraine to turn into a conflict between Russia and the United States or NATO


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501997100128686083

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501442662813122560


----------



## Foinikas

bobo6661 said:


> 😂 maybe tomorow now im seeply


Famous anti-Russian photographer happened to be on spot?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

https://twitter.com/RWApodcast




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502034385419264011


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501229473236201473

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## NotSure

Western aka Nazi values at work:

*EXCLUSIVE Facebook and Instagram to temporarily allow calls for violence against Russians 









Facebook allows war posts urging violence against Russian invaders


Meta Platforms will allow Facebook and Instagram users in some countries to call for violence against Russians and Russian soldiers in the context of the Ukraine invasion, according to internal emails seen by Reuters on Thursday, in a temporary change to its hate speech policy.




www.reuters.com






 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502036658979495940*

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## bobo6661

Foinikas said:


> Famous anti-Russian photographer happened to be on spot?
> 
> View attachment 822819


Ok so becose russian embasy said it fake its fake like the war that they didnt start

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## Hassan Al-Somal



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## Wergeland 2.0

From american stategists PoV the Ukraine war is a win win.

Russia stays quiet, Ukraine become a NATO member and a US outpost on the doorstep of Russia.

Russian attacks and occupy Ukraine, USA creates friction between Europe and Russia, creating a second Iron Curtain and making Europe a exclusively US controlled territory. Europe looses its strategic depth.

Next man out is China… Taiwan independene call will force China with the same choices. Again win win for USA. China stays quiet, Taiwan get independence and hosts US bases on 200 km from chinese coast. China attacks Taiwan to quell rebellion, USA answer by forcing Taiwan, Japan, SK, Singapore, Vietnam and Thailand into exclusively US orbit.

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## Hassan Al-Somal




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## Wergeland 2.0

Clutch said:


> Latest Oliver Stone documentary on Ukraine



Where are the freedom fries @gambit?


----------



## patero

bobo6661 said:


> 😂 maybe tomorow now im seeply
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501917300676571140
> No idea what they saying and no idea how they know it's the hospital basement 🤷‍♂️


If I am following this correctly, all of the civilian buildings being bombed in Ukraine have Nazi battalions situated in their basements. But they haven't been bombed by Russians because Russia hasn't attacked Ukraine (straight from Lavrovs mouth), the Ukrainians are bombing their own buildings (according to another Russian officer). There have only been light Russian casualities in this non-existant conflict, a couple of sprained ankles and a Russian soldier lost his teddy bear.

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## Indian Libertarian

NotSure said:


> Western aka Nazi values at work:
> 
> *EXCLUSIVE Facebook and Instagram to temporarily allow calls for violence against Russians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Facebook allows war posts urging violence against Russian invaders
> 
> 
> Meta Platforms will allow Facebook and Instagram users in some countries to call for violence against Russians and Russian soldiers in the context of the Ukraine invasion, according to internal emails seen by Reuters on Thursday, in a temporary change to its hate speech policy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502036658979495940*


If they keep censoring Twitter sources seems like the information will move elsewhere, probably Telegram.


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## Wergeland 2.0

The SC said:


> Director of US Intelligence: We do not want the war in Ukraine to turn into a conflict between Russia and the United States or NATO
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501997100128686083
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501442662813122560



2000 Dead russian soldiers dosent sound farfetched. Probably real number so far is somewhere between 1000 and 3000 dead soldiers.


----------



## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501833768834904066



Those tanks were v.v. lucky to get away - you can see the UAF targetted the first and last tank in that convoy with a view of attempting to destroy all of them.


----------



## comci

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502033063831871497



Freedom of speech anyone? Or Freedom of speech is only reserved for NATO and Western Europe only?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501599351751122945


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## comci

thetutle said:


> lol, can someone in Washington after they have their morning coffee, please push a button and order an airstrike against *these people*.


Racist much?


----------



## mmr

Foinikas said:


> And what about Bush,Clinton and Albright?
> 
> Can someone find this video?
> View attachment 822799


We are talking about Putler. Not past.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501547509973495810

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501414311603752960


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Spoiler

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## pkuser2k12




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## thetutle

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501547509973495810
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501414311603752960


Why do I fear china less than Russia? Maybe because I have faith that they are a country that has a proper government that makes responsible decisions. And not some mafia run state like...


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502055652587634688

Reactions: Like Like:
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## pkuser2k12



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## Wergeland 2.0

My sarcastic post about Daily Fail got deleted?
Goodness, is PDF starting to sensor post wiich are critical of tabloid yellow journalism?

Is PDF a cladestine US controlled website or sometin?

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## Foinikas

bobo6661 said:


> Ok so becose russian embasy said it fake its fake like the war that they didnt start


There's no war. Go back to sleep. It's all fake news. It's 1992.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501747501619363841

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## Foinikas

mmr said:


> We are talking about Putler. Not past.


So the others go unpunished? No trial for them? For the pain that caused to millions of people? 

Stop calling Putin idiotic names. I thought we had made this clear on this thread that leader names will not be altered to mock them.



thetutle said:


> Why do I fear china less than Russia? Maybe because I have faith that they are a country that has a proper government that makes responsible decisions. And not some mafia run state like...


That's until they invade Taiwan

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502057827661230100


Foinikas said:


> So the others go unpunished? No trial for them? For the pain that caused to millions of people?
> 
> Stop calling Putin idiotic names. I thought we had made this clear on this thread that leader names will not be altered to mock them.
> 
> 
> That's until they invade Taiwan



Invading Taiwan is about a million times harder than what’s happening in Ukraine. You think Russia is having a hard time supplying Ukraine? Try supplying Taiwan

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## kingQamaR

A1Kaid said:


> View attachment 822811
> 
> 
> March 10 update, virtually all land east of Dneiper river is under Russian control. Kyiv and Kharkiv will be captured soon. Negotiations will then start and Ukraine will formally accept Crimea and eastern Ukraine states as independent republics among other agreements. Russia has also captured the most oil rich parts of Ukraine.



They call it a "special operation", not a war. Just playing shameless semantic games

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502035209981673480

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502052010924945417

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502055893474717715

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502045951610994700
US weapons continue to flow into Ukraine


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502051392646795268

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502052773772288004

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## beast89

The SC said:


> Director of US Intelligence: We do not want the war in Ukraine to turn into a conflict between Russia and the United States or NATO
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501997100128686083
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501442662813122560


translation we will let ukraine fight russia until the last ukrainian


----------



## gambit

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> Where are the freedom fries @gambit?


I ate them all.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496939172640489473

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## thetutle

Foinikas said:


> That's until they invade Taiwan



It's the same country. You cant really invade your own country can you? 

I am hoping they can negotiate a away. They probably can. I am hoping china is not an imperialist power. They haven't shown themselves to be so far. But Russia has in the last 200 years. 

I am definitely less concerned about china. Or maybe I just dont understand them like I understand Russians.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502056706095910916


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## lightning F57

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501229473236201473


Dont need to be an intelligence director to work that one out.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502007937581129728

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## Wergeland 2.0

gambit said:


> I ate them all.


👍🤝


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## mmr

Foinikas said:


> So the others go unpunished? No trial for them? For the pain that caused to millions of people?
> 
> Stop calling Putin idiotic names. I thought we had made this clear on this thread that leader names will not be altered to mock them.
> 
> 
> That's until they invade Taiwan


Not my fault if dear leader want to be the new Hitler. hence the Putler.


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## thetutle

Weapons of the war in Ukraine


From ballistic missiles to armed drones, Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is proving the devastating power of modern weaponry.




graphics.reuters.com

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502001349071978506

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## SQ8

@gambit @jhungary just looking at the videos of Russian troops it seems that other than shooting rifles everything else is “no idea how this works so Im winging it”


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## Paul2

gambit said:


> With each 24 hrs passed, this argument (highlighted) become increasingly less tenable. Am going to look at this from an airpower perspective.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine is a sophisticated country. More than Iraq and definitely more than Afghanistan. Why does this matter? Because the more sophisticated a country, the greater its wealth are concentrated in the cities, and Russia is slowly destroying the cities via first encirclement then artillery to reduce the cities to rubble. Essentially, destroying the country's wealth.
> 
> The longer the absence of Russian airpower over Ukraine per the relative power levels chart above, the greater the intensity and destruction of ground Ukraine if Russia is going to commit their 1st tier combat forces *LATER* as you posited.
> 
> Airpower requires the best of everything a country has just to create a basic air force. It is only when an air force meet against another air force in combat is when that sophistication manifest in a binary win or lose outcome, and because airpower operate at higher speed of operations than other powers, airpower have a greater affect on time than other powers. In simpler language, the sooner you take control of an airspace, the more time you give to ground forces, especially if they are directly below the contested airspace. Because airpower operate at speed greater than other forces, when an air force attack a ground force, time is compressed for the enemy ground force. Each attack is faster than the ground forces can response. The only respite the ground force have is when the attacker reorient himself to attack again. But if there are multiple air attackers, the ground forces will have no respite at all. Ask the Iraqi Army for this experience.
> 
> In the air, there is no negotiated settlement possible. Either you win or you lose, and if you lose, you die. Am not saying the pilot die, even though he often does, but that you lose a valuable asset: the pilot-aircraft asset. Without one, the other is useless. An aircraft is not like a rifle where anyone can learn how to become lethal in one day. An aircraft require complex and sophisticated training methodologies and time in order for that pilot-aircraft combination to become valuable, so instead of one day it is more like one yr.
> 
> Currently, air forces all over the world are seeing 'Air parity' in Ukraine when it should be 'Air supremacy' in Russia's favor. Each air asset that Russia lose, whether fixed or rotary wing, in this slow march that you are saying for Russia in order to conserve forces, it will be tougher for Russia to subjugate Ukraine and greater destruction on Ukrainian wealth which equals to destroying Ukraine. What am saying is that to give your argument validity, that Russia is not seeking to destroy Ukraine but only capitulation thru ground pressure, Russian airpower should have been at the 'Air superiority - Air denial' on the first day and escalated to 'Air supremacy - Air incapability' on the second day.
> 
> Does this mean Russia cannot win? Russia will win even at this pace. But the longer this 'Air parity - Air parity' status exists, Ukraine will suffer greater destruction as time go by as Russian ground forces struggles against Ukrainian ground forces because Russian airpower is not putting enough pressure on Ukrainian ground forces. The longer this 'Air parity - Air parity' status exists, the less impressive the VKS will be. The negative impression maybe unwarranted, but it will occur even if Russia eventually raised that status in its favor. The airpower lesson here is this: achieve Air Superiority ASAP no matter what may happen on the ground.



Few adjustment to your assumptions:

1. Ukrainian air defence is simply huge, and fully complete

2. Current SAMs on both sides are generation 4+ SAMs, which should be resistant to Soviet era anti-radiation weapons of both sides.

3. Ukrainian planes were road/field basing for weeks already. Their airforce cannot be killed in one big decisive swoop now.


No side can hope to gain air superiority in a red on red conflict. The air defence always beats air offence for as long as both sides use Soviet hardware.

Even if Russia will wear down Ukrainians to near nothing, they will still have some minimal form of air defence, and air cover to the last day.

IMHO, they are not following the Soviet military doctrine for as long as the order of battle goes.

I would say what we see now is a crystallisation of what we can call a modern Russian doctrine instead. We are still figuring out what it is, but it is what Russian military been sticking to consistently in all its post-Soviet conflicts.

Nearly all Russian wars after 1991 were wars in between Ex-USSR states, and their satellites.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502066255854981126


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## thetutle

Russian ministry of foreign affairs says that advanced weapons deliveries to Ukraine risk the safety of civilian air traffic. 

It sounds like a threat to shoot down civilian airliners by Russia. 

I think This is a certainty, because the stingers and javelins are really starting to hurt them.


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## Paul2

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501747501619363841



Ukraine has 9k33 m2, but no m3

If it's Ukrainian, why it is in the middle of the road, and not under a camo net somewhere in the forest, far from commotion?


----------



## Gripen9

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> From american stategists PoV the Ukraine war is a win win.
> 
> Russia stays quiet, Ukraine become a NATO member and a US outpost on the doorstep of Russia.
> 
> Russian attacks and occupy Ukraine, USA creates friction between Europe and Russia, creating a second Iron Curtain and making Europe a exclusively US controlled territory. Europe looses its strategic depth.
> 
> Next man out is China… Taiwan independene call will force China with the same choices. Again win win for USA. China stays quiet, Taiwan get independence and hosts US bases on 200 km from chinese coast. China attacks Taiwan to quell rebellion, USA answer by forcing Taiwan, Japan, SK, Singapore, Vietnam and Thailand into exclusively US orbit.


And the great game keeps playing out.

Biggest winner is the US. Russia after this misadventure will be significantly weakened. US only has to worry about China

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## Paul2

Gripen9 said:


> And the great game keeps playing out.
> 
> Biggest winner is the US. Russia after this misadventure will be significantly weakened. US only has to worry about China



Russia crushed without a single US bullet fired.

Actually worse than crushed. They will be stuck in this rut for the next 4-6 years at least, way worse than just a military defeat, which is a single time event.

The senile old man put up a very good trap, probably without even realising it.

By 4-6 years mark, the US will likely come back, and decide to finish the business.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502071607736549377


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## tower9

Russia’s military is performing subpar and I don’t think Putin expected this much resistance because in his head, he thought the Ukrainian people were really with him. Unfortunately because Russia is very determined to reach its goals, the only option left will be brute force and the leveling of cities. I think this is why they are allowing for civilian corridors to get as much civilians out before they really pound these cities into the ground.

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## thetutle

Paul2 said:


> Russia crushed without a single US bullet fired.
> 
> Actually worse than crushed. They will be stuck in this rut for the next 4-6 years at least, way worse than just a military defeat, which is a single time event.
> 
> The senile old man put up a very good trap, probably without even realising it.
> 
> By 4-6 years mark, the US will likely come back, and decide to finish the business.


So true, so true. The old fox knew the trap was set. The military industrial complex set it in motion in 2014. 

In 4 - 6 years. Can you even imagine Russia? What will their industrial output look like? will they have civil aviation? What will their unemployment be like? 

Will a country with some of the hottest women also be the poorest in Europe? What does this mean for my 2nd and 3rd marriage?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502038598283104256

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## Vergennes

Russia buries 18-year-old conscript - its youngest victim of the Ukraine war - as anger grows over Putin sending teenage soldiers as cannon fodder​








Russia buries 18-year-old conscript - youngest victim of Ukraine war


Yegor Pochkaenko was killed the day before his 19th birthday, after being moved 5,360 miles across his country to fight in Vladimir Putin's war amid row over sending teenage soldiers to Ukraine.




www.dailymail.co.uk

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Foinikas

thetutle said:


> It's the same country. You cant really invade your own country can you?
> 
> I am hoping they can negotiate a away. They probably can. I am hoping china is not an imperialist power. They haven't shown themselves to be so far. But Russia has in the last 200 years.
> 
> I am definitely less concerned about china. Or maybe I just dont understand them like I understand Russians.


They have been two different countries for more than 70 years



mmr said:


> Not my fault if dear leader want to be the new Hitler. hence the Putler.


It's far more complicated than that. So if you can't understand the politics and geopolitics behind the whole war,then don't act like silly kid that makes up names.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

A huge number of Ukrainian armaments were captured by the Russian army. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502034644593790979

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502003531112501249


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## Hassan Al-Somal

The chechnyan contingent of the Russian army encircling Kiev, and providing stability areas around the capital. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502031464472457219

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502078673196920839

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## gambit

F-22Raptor said:


> Invading Taiwan is about a million times harder than what’s happening in Ukraine. You think Russia is having a hard time supplying Ukraine? Try supplying Taiwan


Invading Taiwan is a different issue. Land vs water. China is not looking at this *LAND* invasion for a *WATER* invasion example.

But China is looking at how the world respond to this war. Neither Poutine nor Xi expected the intense global reaction. Ukraine is being supported on the military and civilian fronts. In essence, warfare at the truly full spectrum level. All this time, we have been hearing on how China will conduct 'full spectrum' warfare with the addition of cyber warfare. But now, China is actually seeing what 'full spectrum' really mean and who can wield it. We got credit card transactions, financial messaging, entertainers locked out, currency attacked, restaurants withdrew, and more. And it looks like China will not be able to rally such non-military allies to see China's justifications to invade Taiwan. The NBA and LeBron James, and John Cena will stay silent on Taiwan, as if what they can say will matter anyway.

The more serious problem is the occupation of Taiwan and this is where Ukraine *WILL* be instructive.

Before the war, the world was bombarded with how Ukrainians and Russians are 'brothers', and that most Ukrainians will welcome their Russian 'liberators'. We are seeing the same on how Taiwanese are ethnic Chinese and there will be little to no resistance to a Chinese invasion. That Ukrainians were 'oppressing' ethnic Russians, but Taiwanese are oppressing no one. That there are neo-Nazis in Ukraine, but we have yet to see Taiwanese neo-Nazis which would truly be an odd sight. Ukraine is a sophisticated country with global reach exports of valuable agricultural goods, and Taiwan have global exports of technological goods. So the longer this war go on, the more global sympathy will go to the Ukrainians, which *WILL* transfer to Taiwan as well.

Global militaries are watching the war with interests.

So far, the Russian Air Force have been less than impressive, and to be blunt about it, not even mediocre considering the numerical superiority in all airborne platforms. The oft assertion from the forum's Chinese members that the PLAAF and ROCAF are not technological peers and that the ROCAF will be defeated, is diminished if not outright nulled. The PLAAF is wondering if its generals can do better and if its airmen can survive Taiwanese air defense with enough numbers to support the invasion fleet. We are looking at an air force that has combat experience vs one without, and the former is currently underperforming. Maybe the VKS will pull something out and surprise everyone, who knows, but we are willing to consider that possibility.

On the ground, the Russian Army can afford to split its invasion into three fronts, but the PLA do not have that option. The PLAN will be restricted to one landing site and Taiwan is prepared on all possible sites. The PLAN fleet final destination will be known and the Taiwanese will be able to redirect their defense to that site. For the occupation, the PLA will now have to wonder if the US and allies have been talking with the Taiwanese defense on how to fight the occupation using the Ukrainian defenders as example. The recent Russian tank column destroyed by the Ukrainians showed how soldiers can lead civilian defenders to make damages to an armor force, and that civilians can learn how to effectively use MANPADS in a trap.

China is certainly gauging how Asian countries are responding to the Russian-Ukrainian war, and they are putting themselves in Ukraine's position. If Taiwan fall, so can they. If China control the South China Sea, their access to global trade will be under China's pleasure. No promises from China will be seriously taken because Russia broke a written to Ukraine and invaded. So what would happen if the US lead a coalition of Asian navies, from SKR and JPN to southern countries like Viet Nam and Australia, to help Taiwan? What if we allow the invasion? What if the invasion succeeded and came an occupation? Then we cut off the Chinese occupation force from mainland China.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502035436180549635


----------



## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502003531112501249



Russians threw all reserves, and abandoned efforts to advance. They are trying to scrape last ditch reserves it seems from bases as far as Pacific coast.

Actually, this gives Ukrainians a chance to regroup, and do its first major offensive.

Small sieges like Kherson, which is guarded by a single BTG, will be easy.

More importantly, they will finally start to gain in territory control, and be able to free more forces for offensive as they clear more cities.

South Ukraine is all open field for kilometres. Lanchester laws will be exploited to the maximum. Snowball effect will be huge here.

If Ukraine gets a brigade sized offensive going in the South, single BTGs spread around city perimeters will not hold, and will be pressed to choose whether hold the siege, or roll back when they still can, and regroup in a bigger formation.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood




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## CrazyZ

Any reports of NATO or Ukraine spoofing Glonass?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502035167006933001


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## Type59

Iron Shrappenel said:


> They seem to be the most successful of all the military groups in russian camp rn....


Donbass and southern front have been slowly advancing. Bulk of UA is in North.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501946912085135366

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Su-25 from the 299 Tactical Aviation Brigade of the Ukrainian air force shot down today


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502055434336841735

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## Thinker3

LeGenD said:


> Spoiler: Click to check.
> 
> 
> 
> A major nuclear exchange between USA and Russia will be a catastrophic event for mankind and billions might die around the world consequently. Global Order might collapse by extension.
> 
> However, Soviet spy Sergei Tretyakov disclosed in his accounts that KGB created and advanced Nuclear Winter argument and many have bought it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Book Details the Defection of 'Comrade J'
> 
> 
> In 2000, Sergei Tretyakov became one of the highest-ranking Russian spies ever to defect to the United States. Pete Earley, author of a new book about Tretyakov called Comrade J, and the former Russian spy discuss his case and his motivation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.npr.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Nuclear Winter a Myth? – Defence Tactical
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> defencetactical.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American forces are made to operate around the world - this makes sense and could be in line with a contingency plan. There are some well-prepared locations in USA which can continue to function after a nuclear war. Raven Rock is one of these locations. Regrouping and relocation of survivors to a new landscape is possible. If Canada is not suitable, another place could be. It depends.
> 
> 
> 
> Let us focus on the topic on hand.


What makes you think Russia will not hit the major bases around the world?
Russia also have such plans and places. 
But the truth is that it will not be possible to rehabilitate such areas for hundreds of years not because of Nuclear winter but because of Nuclear fallout, Nuclear winds that will take radiation around, Radiation rain, radiated water and radiated land.


----------



## gambit

Paul2 said:


> Few adjustment to your assumptions:
> 
> 1. Ukrainian air defence is simply huge, and fully complete
> 
> 2. Current SAMs on both sides are generation 4+ SAMs, which should be resistant to Soviet era anti-radiation weapons of both sides.
> 
> 3. Ukrainian planes were road/field basing for weeks already. Their airforce cannot be killed in one big decisive swoop now.


If what you say is true, then this would a monumental F-up: Intelligence and Planning.



Paul2 said:


> No side can hope to gain air superiority in a red on red conflict. The air defence always beats air offence for as long as both sides use Soviet hardware.


This would mean both sides know each other's capabilities. So the advantage falls on numerical superiority, which Russia have. When I was active duty and on the F-16, our squadron did exercised against the Red air defense unit from Nellis. You can see *SOME* of the Threat Center Soviet hardware here...









The Nellis Air Force Base 'Threat Center' in Las Vegas, NV (Google Maps)


The Nellis Air Force Base 'Threat Center' (Google Maps). The Threat Center showcases opposition Anti Aircraft missiles, and other anti air threats so pilots can gain a better familiarity of what they are up against. Visible here are a Hind Helicopter, an SA-13 mobile missile launcher, six...




virtualglobetrotting.com





Out in the desert range, they have lots and lots more in full functionality.

We trained in going against the air defense threat in a typical 4-ship force and more. We learned to recognize threat freqs and their characteristics in search and focused modes. So I have to disagree with you here. The VKS have numerical superiority over the Ukrainian Air Force. On the first day, the VKS should have overwhelmed the Ukrainian air defense, or at least destroyed %50 of them.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502018861557714946
Urgent | Ukrainian President: Moscow claims that we want to restore nuclear capability, and this may be a prelude to the use of nuclear bombs..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502049675351928860
#Ukraine — Ukrainian parliamentarian to the event: Russian bombing will soon reach Kyiv and Ukraine will not win the war..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501968676014235656


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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502085931645423624


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## Wood




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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501990079706845190


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502078984015650816

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502084617775501334

Putin realizes he’s losing

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502065880645218312


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## Menthol

thetutle said:


> General clark is right when he says, if we are afraid to act because of a nuclear threat, what will we do if he goes after the next country?
> 
> His use of nuclear force should not in any way prevent us from acting. He will use it if he wants to. That is his right and his decision. All we can do in that respect is have retaliatory capabilities ready and all the secret capabilities ready that will deny him the ability to launch as many as possible. Nuclear war is definitely winnable by the US, it always has been. US has always believed that and thats why they have all the things in place if it should ever happen. Obviously best avoided.
> 
> He also says that the future of the western world will depend upon Russia succeeding or failing here in Ukraine. I agree with this.



I think his brain is twisted.

There will be no conflict and problem like today if USA + allies are not acting crazily.

And now he is trapped under a choice between not acting because afraid of a nuclear attack and acting.

Winning a brawl with losing some limbs and becoming cripples forever vs winning friends are still the same winning.

But I still prefer winning friends over losing some limbs, cripples forever, and maybe soon after death.... although winning.

Sometimes people need to know where is the stop line is.

A businessman went bankrupt and lost everything because he is still wanted more.

An athlete is humiliated despite gold medals for straight 10 times in the past.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502083710858022915


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502084617775501334
> 
> Putin realizes he’s losing


With the weather clearing, bombardment from the air will begin from high altitude. Russia will justify that because they've allowed some people to evacuate. Stingers will not cut it anymore. 

Sad reality for the Ukrainians. They have to stay alive for the street fight.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502090113064521735

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502090115702738968

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502115365018648614


----------



## khansaheeb

Kyiv about to fall as Russian forces creep 3 miles close.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Menthol

OldTwilight said:


> Well , Russian army performance is not as good at it was excepted , but for russians , this is good , at least they have time to correct it before a serious war which threaten their heartland ...



There's no way Russia can correct this.

Russian people don't have a strong hardworking culture like elsewhere.

The more time passed, the more Russia will be left behind by the rest of the world.

What is left for Russia is just USSR-era nuclear weapons.

We all have seen the USA war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

All the Turkish drones, etc.

It has been passed decades, but Russia learn nothing.

They know and they have time, but they can't do a thing because they are not hardworking, to get the job done.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502002865992310786



It's hard to say who is losing the information war.

But definitely, he doesn't know that the whole world hates him.

He is so confident to believe that he is doing the right thing.


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## A1Kaid

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> After reading all that pro-Ukrainian regime propaganda and its eccentric cheerleaders it surely sounds like Russia and its army were on the verge of collapse.
> 
> Then you get hit by reality and maps like this.
> Propagandists really has no shame.


The Ukrainian Twitter army would have you believing they were having a miraculous victory overcoming Russia but ground reality is far different. On top of that the western media is pushing that narrative and banning outlets that publish anything contrary.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502122496300130304


A1Kaid said:


> The Ukrainian Twitter army would have you believing they were having a miraculous victory overcoming Russia but ground reality is far different. On top of that the western media is pushing that narrative and banning outlets that publish anything contrary.



Motti


----------



## Indian Libertarian

Menthol said:


> There's no way Russia can correct this.
> 
> Russian people don't have a strong hardworking culture like elsewhere.
> 
> The more time passed, the more Russia will be left behind by the rest of the world.
> 
> What is left for Russia is just USSR-era nuclear weapons.
> 
> We all have seen the USA war in Iraq and Afghanistan.
> 
> All the Turkish drones, etc.
> 
> It has been passed decades, but Russia learn nothing.
> 
> They know and they have time, but they can't do a thing because they are not hardworking, to get the job done.
> 
> 
> 
> It's hard to say who is losing the information war.
> 
> But definitely, he doesn't know that the whole world hates him.
> 
> He is so confident to believe that he is doing the right thing.


Russia is clearly losing the information war. All information is essentially coming from the Ukrainian side only. The question is, who is actually winning on the frontlines?


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## Menthol

Indian Libertarian said:


> Russia is clearly losing the information war. All information is essentially coming from the Ukrainian side only. The question is, who is actually winning on the frontlines?



That will depend on which news media you read.

In my country, the news media that was established by USA during the Cold War definitely will pro-Ukraine.

But the other news media is fairer.


While Russia is taking over the whole of Ukraine, one by one.

What Western media report is just killing an ant on the street.


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## Microsoft

LeGenD said:


> Gentle approach? NO.
> 
> Russians have used over 600 cruise missiles and ballistic missiles in Ukraine by now.
> 
> Russian forces are shelling Ukrainian cities as well:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian rockets are falling indiscriminately on Ukrainian cities
> 
> 
> The goal may be to spread terror
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.economist.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Photos: Russian Artillery, Bombs Pound Ukrainian Cities As Civilians Continue To Die
> 
> 
> Russia's invasion of Ukraine continued unabated over the weekend, with Ukraine saying Russian forces had launched hundreds of missiles and artillery attacks across the country, including dropping powerful bombs on residential areas of Chernihiv, a city north of the capital, Kyiv.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rferl.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even Indian sources are noticing:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War: Here's list of some major cities attacked by Russian forces so far
> 
> 
> Since Russia launched a special military operation on February 24, the country's military has attacked several major cities in Ukraine. Read on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.republicworld.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainians are using UAVs to take out Russian artillery pieces on the other hand:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian Bayraktar TB2 UAV destroys Russian military column in second operational strike
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQF4r_fNlGI A Ukrainian Bayraktar TB2 unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) hit a Russian military column in the Chornobaivka, in southern Ukraine, in what is the second known operation of the UAV against Russian assets since October 2021. In a video shared by the Ukra
> 
> 
> 
> 
> defbrief.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Russian Army Has A Problem: Ukraine Keeps Killing Its Tanks
> 
> 
> Overall, Ukraine is fighting gallantly against Russian armor and tanks forces. But the Russians have paused and re-grouped.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.19fortyfive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some PDF members are in disbelief though. Mighty Russian army not living up to its usual hype.



Gentle compared to what they could do, try to understand context.


LeGenD said:


> You are not up-to-date on developments in Ukraine. This much is clear.
> 
> Bombing hospitals is wrong and unethical - even if enemy troops are there. Fight them outside.



What's with this hypocrisy about morals? When I brought up Ukrainian nazification you retorted with "what about Russian nazis"
So what if I said "What about the hospitals bombed in Afghanistan"? I'm confused as to where your morals lie.

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## khansaheeb

Kyiv about to fall as Russian forces creep 3 miles close.








The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502018861557714946
> Urgent | Ukrainian President: Moscow claims that we want to restore nuclear capability, and this may be a prelude to the use of nuclear bombs..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502049675351928860
> #Ukraine — Ukrainian parliamentarian to the event: Russian bombing will soon reach Kyiv and Ukraine will not win the war..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501968676014235656


Russians are thinking: Why not add another Chernobyl , world wouldn't notice.


----------



## F-22Raptor

A1Kaid said:


> The Ukrainian Twitter army would have you believing they were having a miraculous victory overcoming Russia but ground reality is far different. On top of that the western media is pushing that narrative and banning outlets that publish anything contrary.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502129069923737601

Senator Rubio has access to all the intel coming from Ukraine

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## beijingwalker

F-22Raptor said:


> Senator Rubio has access to all the intel coming from Ukraine


Senator Rubio has access to all the lies coming from Ukraine, and he himself is also an expert in making them.

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## A1Kaid

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502129069923737601
> 
> Senator Rubio has access to all the intel coming from Ukraine



Yeah and Iraq has WMDs..."all" the intel...you can believe him if you want.

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502129069923737601
> 
> Senator Rubio has access to all the intel coming from Ukraine


I don't hope for him to be wrong. But he sounds a bit like Baghdad Bob


----------



## beijingwalker

A1Kaid said:


> Yeah and Iraq has WMDs..."all" the intel...you can believe him if you want.


US senator Marco Rubio, A habitual liar

LATEST FALSE FACT-CHECKS ON MARCO RUBIO​





| PolitiFact


PolitiFact is a fact-checking website that rates the accuracy of claims by elected officials and others on its Truth-O-Meter.




www.politifact.com

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## A1Kaid

95% of Putin's forces still intact, plan to surround Kyiv: Pentagon update


Russian bombardment of key cities has increased as ground troops have stalled.




abcnews.go.com













Russian convoy outside Kyiv seen dispersing as US says offensive nearing capital


* * *




www.timesofisrael.com





Not looking good for NATO's sacrificial lamb.

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## F-22Raptor

beijingwalker said:


> Senator Rubio has access to all the lies coming from Ukraine, and he himself is also an expert in making them.





A1Kaid said:


> Yeah and Iraq has WMDs..."all" the intel...you can believe him if you want.





Wood said:


> I don't hope for him to be wrong. But he sounds a bit like Baghdad Bob





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502138915007844352
The Institute for the Study of War is now also concluding the same as Senator Rubio

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## beijingwalker

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502138915007844352
> The Institute for the Study of War is now also concluding the same as Senator Rubio


What is that? are you a member of it?

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## Madni Bappa

Wood said:


>


A lot of friendly fire incidents comin up I imagine

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502139700391280646


----------



## khansaheeb

A1Kaid said:


> Yeah and Iraq has WMDs..."all" the intel...you can believe him if you want.


Russian soldiers will be throwing babies out of incubators soon.

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## F-22Raptor

khansaheeb said:


> Russian soldiers will be throwing babies out of incubators soon.



US intelligence has been dead on this entire time.

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## A1Kaid

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502138915007844352
> The Institute for the Study of War is now also concluding the same as Senator Rubio



Yeah and the Pentagon is concluding something different.









95% of Putin's forces still intact, plan to surround Kyiv: Pentagon update


Russian bombardment of key cities has increased as ground troops have stalled.




abcnews.go.com

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## khansaheeb

Seems like poor Ukraine has been sacrificed in the power game.









The West Must Accept Reality in Ukraine | by Nancy Qian - Project Syndicate


Nancy Qian thinks NATO leaders should acknowledge that Russia's motivation to fight is stronger than their own.




www.project-syndicate.org




The West Must Accept Reality in Ukraine​Feb 10, 2022NANCY QIAN
In the fraught standoff between NATO and Russia over Ukraine, it is clear that Russia is far more committed to its cause than NATO is to the defense of Ukrainian sovereignty. The sooner the West recognizes this harsh reality, the better it will be for everyone, including Ukrainians.
CHICAGO – The buildup of Russian forces near Ukraine’s border has led to fears of a new war. But the conflict is hardly new, and nor are Russia’s objectives. Ukraine, which has been indirectly controlled or directly repressed by Moscow-based governments for centuries, wants NATO to protect it from future Russian incursions, like the one the Kremlin launched in 2014. But Russian President Vladimir Putin is demanding that NATO promise not to expand into any more Eastern European countries that border Russia (which already shares a border with five NATO members).






FREE TO READ
The Monetary Consequences of Vladimir Putin​BARRY EICHENGREEN
The sanctions imposed on Russia in response to its invasion of Ukraine are financially and economically devastating, which is precisely their intent. Having witnessed this demonstration of financial shock and awe, will other countries re-think how and where they hold their foreign assets?
0Add to Bookmarks
PreviousNext
NATO, led by the United States, is refusing Putin’s demand on the grounds that all countries have a right to decide their own fates. But protecting Ukraine’s independence is not as straightforward as it seems. There is an asymmetry between the cost that Russia is willing to pay to control Ukraine and the cost that NATO countries are willing to pay to protect it from Russian suzerainty.
Russia has few allies, whereas NATO comprises 30 of the world’s richest countries, many of which have modernized militaries. Nonetheless, over the past 200 years, Russia has managed – almost always through force and aggression – to use small neighboring countries as a buffer against Western European countries that might threaten it.
Putin views today’s geopolitical landscape in much the same way. He worries that, since the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia’s western buffer has been reduced to Belarus. Keeping Ukraine within the Kremlin’s sphere of influence is thus critical for his strategy of ensuring Russia’s national security and boosting its geopolitical standing.
Most NATO members, including the US, almost certainly do not have the same level of motivation as Putin does. Moreover, history has shown how difficult it is to secure the independence of states with large belligerent neighbors. During the Cold War, the US fought a costly war to preserve South Korean independence. It then fought an even costlier war to keep South Vietnam independent, and failed. All told, those two wars in Asia lasted 20 years and cost around $1.2 trillion, resulting in more than 90,000 US military deaths.
The US has recently relearned some of the lessons from those earlier wars. Last year, it withdrew from Afghanistan after 20 years of failing to establish political order or a functioning national economy. Before Western personnel had even left the country, it had already been retaken by the Taliban. And although Afghanistan is very different from Ukraine, the fact is that the American public has little appetite for another foreign military campaign.
Subscribe to Project Syndicate​Our newest magazine, *The Year Ahead 2022: Reckonings*, is here. To receive your print copy, delivered wherever you are in the world, *subscribe to PS for less than $9 a month*. 
As a _PS_ subscriber, you’ll also enjoy unlimited access to our On Point suite of premium long-form content, Say More contributor interviews, The Big Picture topical collections, and the full _PS_ archive.
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These facts are well known to Putin, an authoritarian leader who is not constrained by domestic public opinion in the way that his Western counterparts are. Whereas the US and its allies will have a hard time convincing constituents that a war to defend Ukraine is worthwhile, Putin can capitalize on the fact that Russian nationalism has been rising steadily in recent years. Putin’s approval ratings soared after Russia’s annexation of Crimea in 2014.
True, Putin’s approval has declined significantly since then, and the Russian public appears to be wary of war in Ukraine. But Putin knows from historical episodes, such as the Soviet Great Famine, that it is possible to impose significant costs on the Russian population to achieve major political objectives.
Moreover, NATO’s own behavior may have strengthened Putin’s resolve to pursue a strategy of aggression. When Russian GDP and military spending were at all-time lows after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, NATO did not disband, even though it had been established for the explicit purpose of Cold War containment of the Soviet Union. Instead, it expanded to include the Soviet Union’s former satellites in Central and Eastern Europe – and even three ex-Soviet republics.
By 2008, Russian GDP and military spending had recovered, and France and Germany had begun to express reservations about provoking Russia by inviting Ukraine and Georgia to join NATO. This put them at odds with US President George W. Bush’s administration, and it was agreed that NATO would issue a vague promise of future membership to Ukraine (the Bucharest Compromise).
A few months later, Russia invaded Georgia, and the West put up little resistance. Moreover, this strategic victory for Putin coincided with an economic boom, all of which helped to entrench his political power.
From Putin’s perspective, NATO is likely to absorb Ukraine sooner or later if it thinks that Russia will no longer fight to prevent it. But if Russia demonstrates credibly that it will fight for control of Ukraine, one of two things may happen: the West will negotiate for peace; or there will be a war that NATO will have little appetite to fight. Either way, credibly threatening a war maximizes Putin’s chances of keeping Ukraine in Russia’s sphere of influence.

The US, historically the most outspoken proponent of NATO expansion, needs to assess the situation soberly. Russia will fight, and unless the US can credibly show that it will fight, too, Ukraine will be unable to escape from Russian influence and be truly independent. In the worst scenario, the US and the West, indecisive and half-hearted, end up in a war that they will ultimately abandon, with Ukrainians bearing the brunt of the human and economic costs.
While some in the West are showing signs of accepting today’s harsh realities, others argue that any willingness to reach an agreement with Putin would be equivalent to British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain’s appeasement of Nazi Germany at Munich. This is incorrect. Preventing a war is the best thing that the US and its allies can do to preserve Ukraine’s well-being, if not the ideal of full independence.


----------



## F-22Raptor

A1Kaid said:


> Yeah and the Pentagon is concluding something different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 95% of Putin's forces still intact, plan to surround Kyiv: Pentagon update
> 
> 
> Russian bombardment of key cities has increased as ground troops have stalled.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abcnews.go.com



First, that assessment has now dropped to 90%.

Second, your looking at it entirely wrong. Once that number drops to 70-80% the Russian military is in dire trouble. It won’t be able to fulfill its military objectives.

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## gambit

Menthol said:


> There's no way Russia can correct this.
> 
> Russian people don't have a strong hardworking culture like elsewhere.
> 
> The more time passed, the more *Russia will be left behind by the rest of the world.*
> 
> What is left for Russia is just USSR-era nuclear weapons.


The harsh reality is that no matter the outcome of this Russia-Ukraine war, negotiated settlement or outright conquest, whenever there is any future dealing with Russia, hard power will come to mind, meaning that country will always be wary of the Russian military threat, instead of both exercising soft power in reaching any agreement. The more and more of this hard power diplomacy occurs, the less and less desirable Russia will appear in everyone's eyes which will equals to being left behind.

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## gambit

Basically, Poutine really wanted to reconstitute the Soviet empire under a different name.









Putin’s Fraudulent Foundation for Attacking Ukraine


At a rambling photo-op, Putin rehashed the fake historical narrative he’s constructed to justify attacking Ukraine.




www.polygraph.info

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## F-22Raptor

gambit said:


> Basically, Poutine really wanted to reconstitute the Soviet empire under a different name.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin’s Fraudulent Foundation for Attacking Ukraine
> 
> 
> At a rambling photo-op, Putin rehashed the fake historical narrative he’s constructed to justify attacking Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.polygraph.info




Looks like Ukraine is going for a motti/kettle battle annihilation of Russian forces to the northwest of Kiev. If successful, a Russian siege and occupation of Kiev will be impossible.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88



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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502148978103574534

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502149195746013186

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502149945310154755

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502150512828825605

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502150964496592899

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## SQ8

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502129069923737601
> 
> Senator Rubio has access to all the intel coming from Ukraine


He also tends to exaggerate but it isn’t going well for the Russians. Literally an example of how not to execute a war when you hold superiority on paper

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502152268451225600

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502152679190982668

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## patero

gambit said:


> Basically, Poutine really wanted to reconstitute the Soviet empire under a different name.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin’s Fraudulent Foundation for Attacking Ukraine
> 
> 
> At a rambling photo-op, Putin rehashed the fake historical narrative he’s constructed to justify attacking Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.polygraph.info


And he has skipped past any pretense of communism in his ideology going straight to Stalinist authoritarian rule. No need to bother with a workers revolution, or collectivisation. And he has a populace already conditioned to accept it, and the state apparatus basically intact to enforce it. Where he seems to be miscalculating is his belief that citizens in other former Soviet states and 'liberated' Warsaw Pact nations share this conditioning and want to return to Soviet style governance.

Has anybody read the books published by the former GRU colonel and defector Vladimir Rezun under the pen name Victor Suvorov? The Liberators in particular gives some real insight into an historical context for current events.

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## F-22Raptor

SQ8 said:


> He also tends to exaggerate but it isn’t going well for the Russians. Literally an example of how not to execute a war when you hold superiority on paper



Russia would need 200K combat troops to take and control Kiev. After KIAs, WIAs, deserters Russia probably has 80-85K currently. The rest are all logistics, support, etc. This is going to be very hard for Russia to achieve.

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## SQ8

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia would need 200K combat troops to take and control Kiev. After KIAs, WIAs, deserters Russia probably has 80-85K currently. The rest are all logistics, support, etc. This is going to be very hard for Russia to achieve.


If anyone is to blame besides Putin it would be his advisors. I understand the need to lick cojones to survive but give such detached assessment just tells you either how incompetent or how survivalist these advisors are

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## A1Kaid

F-22Raptor said:


> First, that assessment has now dropped to 90%.
> 
> Second, your looking at it entirely wrong. Once that number drops to 70-80% the Russian military is in dire trouble. It won’t be able to fulfill its military objectives.



The number I quoted is from 2 days ago. What 90% are you referring to? If its the info below then this 90% figure has nothing to do what number of Russian forces intact.



> U.S. officials assess that Russian President Vladimir Putin has placed “90 percent of his pre-staged combat power across the border into Ukraine,” and Russian forces “have available to them — in and outside of Ukraine — the vast, vast majority of their total combat power,” said the official, who spoke to reporters on condition of anonymity.











Pentagon: 90% of Russian combat power pre-staged at Ukraine’s borders have already entered Ukraine.







kyivindependent.com





Where did you get this "once that number drops 70-80%..." info from? Is this also from Sen. Rubio? lol. Let's say Ukrainian forces were at 30-40%, so Russian forces being at 70-80% would still be more than enough to accomplish their objectives. Don't just look at one side of the equation. Smh



F-22Raptor said:


> Russia would need 200K combat troops to take and control Kiev. After KIAs, WIAs, deserters Russia probably has 80-85K currently. The rest are all logistics, support, etc. This is going to be very hard for Russia to achieve.



200k to take and control Kyiv? Where the hell are you getting your numbers from? Never mind. You seem to just make up fictitious numbers. Half the cities population has fled, and you think 200k troops are needed to take and control Kyiv. Russia is occupying a much bigger land mass (albeit less urban and more pro-Russian popln.) than Kyiv called Crimea and with much less troops.

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## Madni Bappa

gambit said:


> Basically, Poutine really wanted to reconstitute the Soviet empire under a different name.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin’s Fraudulent Foundation for Attacking Ukraine
> 
> 
> At a rambling photo-op, Putin rehashed the fake historical narrative he’s constructed to justify attacking Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.polygraph.info


The Article:
Distorting the Origins – The Maidan “Coup”
Putin retold his distorted history of the conflict with Ukraine. About Ukraine’s Maidan uprising in February 2014, he said:

“The fact is that after the state unconstitutional coup in Ukraine, which was actively supported, unfortunately, by Western countries … they said directly that they spent five billion dollars on it, they distributed hot pies on the Maidan and so on.”

Response to article:





The Karen is literally handing out food what may very well be meat pies lmao 😂

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## MMM-E

*TB-2 UCAV destroyed another Russian BUK SAM in Ukraine*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501902683409637377

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## beijingwalker

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia would need 200K combat troops to take and control Kiev. After KIAs, WIAs, deserters Russia probably has 80-85K currently. The rest are all logistics, support, etc. This is going to be very hard for Russia to achieve.


If Russia is not that weak as you depicted, Nato and US won't be such a chicken repeatedly making statement to assure Russia it won't militarily intervene.


----------



## F-22Raptor

SQ8 said:


> If anyone is to blame besides Putin it would be his advisors. I understand the need to lick cojones to survive but give such detached assessment just tells you either how incompetent or how survivalist these advisors ar



Putin is surrounded by imbeciles. The fact they invaded during Rasputitsa just confirms the idiocy.

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## lightning F57

MMM-E said:


> *TB-2 UCAV destroyed another Russian BUK SAM in Ukraine*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501902683409637377


These air defence systems seem to be napping.


----------



## Shakuni Mama

Thanks @LeGenD @RescueRanger @Vergennes @dBSPL @gambit @F-22Raptor for sharing your views and sharing the information from the battle field. All power to Ukrainians to defend their motherland.

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## gambit

patero said:


> And he has skipped past any pretense of communism in his ideology going straight to Stalinist authoritarian rule. No need to bother with a workers revolution, or collectivisation. And he has a populace already conditioned to accept it, and the state apparatus basically intact to enforce it. Where he seems to be miscalculating is his belief that citizens in other former Soviet states and 'liberated' Warsaw Pact nations share this conditioning and want to return to Soviet style governance.
> 
> *Has anybody read the books published by the former GRU colonel and defector Vladimir Rezun under the pen name Victor Suvorov? The Liberators in particular gives some real insight into an historical context for current events.*


Yes, I do have Suvurov's four major books. 







The first one I read was _Spetnaz_, then I got the rest. Those four books have been with me for decades.

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## Sharma Ji

gambit said:


> Yes, I do have Suvurov's four major books.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first one I read was _Spetnaz_, then I got the rest. Those four books have been with me for decades.


Ha, nice1. 

I might pick up a couple of those.


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502169863657168899

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502164450647830528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502170394161074177

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502171249899819011

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502171913514143748

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## kingQamaR

SQ8 said:


> If anyone is to blame besides Putin it would be his advisors. I understand the need to lick cojones to survive but give such detached assessment just tells you either how incompetent or how survivalist these advisors are



The truth - where Putin likes it or not - will out eventually, even in Russia. Authoritarian weak leaders like Putin do not see anything wrong in what he his doing. That's the whole problem. Putin is not listening he’s running every thing

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## Bleek

kingQamaR said:


> The truth - where Putin likes it or not - will out eventually, even in Russia. Authoritarian weak leaders like Putin do not see anything wrong in what he his doing. That's the whole problem. Putin is not listening he’s running every thing


Putin ain't weak, he just doesn't have the best situation to work with here

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## Menthol

gambit said:


> The harsh reality is that no matter the outcome of this Russia-Ukraine war, negotiated settlement or outright conquest, whenever there is any future dealing with Russia, hard power will come to mind, meaning that country will always be wary of the Russian military threat, instead of both exercising soft power in reaching any agreement. The more and more of this hard power diplomacy occurs, the less and less desirable Russia will appear in everyone's eyes which will equals to being left behind.



But Russia is needed to balance the world power for whatever it is.

As well as the West is needed to balance out Russia and China.

And why do you think the West is not going to misuse its power once Russia is gone?

Let the world be like that.



Bleek said:


> Putin ain't weak, he just doesn't have the best situation to work with here



Putin is a strong man.

But Russia as a country is weak because its people are weak.

Russian people are unproductive, they rich because of mining from a large landmass.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502174082640408583


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## Madni Bappa

gambit said:


> Yes, I do have Suvurov's four major books.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first one I read was _Spetnaz_, then I got the rest. Those four books have been with me for decades.


You also have Captain America figure. Why am I not surprised. Given all the Captain America-ism you give us 24/7 on this thread







This was supposed to be a totally separate post:

Big question in my mind is why Russia hasn't sent in Special Forces? They've sent in conscripts and Chechen militia. But I know Russians have better trained and equipped troops.

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## Clutch

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502001349071978506




That's got to be the world's slowest least efficient artillery firing ever.... One shell per 30 min???


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502179837003264000

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## patero

gambit said:


> Yes, I do have Suvurov's four major books.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first one I read was _Spetnaz_, then I got the rest. Those four books have been with me for decades.


Know thy enemy I'm guessing looking at that collection, and nice touch with Tony Stark and Steve Rogers. 

I was thinking the other day there was some mention of Russian mobile crematoriums, it reminded me of Suvorovs first day on the job with GRU when his new CO showed him the film of a man being thrown alive into a furnace and being told 'dead or alive, there is only one way to leave our organisation: the furnace.' I wonder if deceased Russian soldiers in this conflict will be cremated and 'unpersoned'.


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## kingQamaR

Menthol said:


> But Russia is needed to balance the world power for whatever it is.
> 
> As well as the West is needed to balance out Russia and China.
> 
> And why do you think the West is not going to misuse its power once Russia is gone?
> 
> Let the world be like that.
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a strong man.
> 
> But Russia as a country is weak because its people are weak.
> 
> Russian people are unproductive, they rich because of mining from a large landmass.



Anyone who goes against Putin is jailed and tortured , or pushed out a window , poisoned or has an accident . This is even overseas as he has a long reach . Not everyone is brave .



newb3e said:


> jewish clown will catch them in mid air if tweeter is to be believed!
> 
> western tweep fan boys trusted Kurdish tweeps,Ana tweepe and tweeps from "lion of panjshir" so if jewish clown end up losing this war will fanboys keep believing west?




Putin is not laughing at him now

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502184522238070786

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502181918871199745



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502183324785205249

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## kingQamaR

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502179837003264000



Russia lost the war in the first 48 hours.

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## RescueRanger

gambit said:


> Yes, I do have Suvurov's four major books.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first one I read was _Spetnaz_, then I got the rest. Those four books have been with me for decades.


That is a mighty fine book collection you have there. Also Props for the Iron Man figurine.

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## kingQamaR

Indian Libertarian said:


> Russia is clearly losing the information war. All information is essentially coming from the Ukrainian side only. The question is, who is actually winning on the frontlines?



Its a battle that cant be won. You cant defeat an ideology. Even if they take the city the ukrainians will turn it into a full scale insurgency just like what happened to the US in the war on terror

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## Genghis khan1

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501832628080676871


Ukrainians along with covert operators and foreign contractors all are getting real time Intel to carry out targeted attacks and upload videos.

This is Gorilla warfare with guided weapons and real time Intel and satellite imagery support. 

Russians were covertly supporting Taliban in Afghanistan, US want a payback.

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## OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ

Madni Bappa said:


> Big question in my mind is why Russia hasn't sent in Special Forces? They've sent in conscripts and Chechen militia. But I know Russians have better trained and equipped troops.



One word... Escalation!

Russians are hedging. 
They are expecting this to escalate.
The assumption is a false flag or something hatched in one of the bordering NATO states, which triggers article 5.

If it doesn't happen, it doesn't matter!

Keep your eyes taped open...

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## LeGenD

Microsoft said:


> Gentle compared to what they could do, try to understand context.
> 
> 
> What's with this hypocrisy about morals? When I brought up Ukrainian nazification you retorted with "what about Russian nazis"
> So what if I said "What about the hospitals bombed in Afghanistan"? I'm confused as to where your morals lie.


Russians are doing whatever they can in Ukraine but they are suffering heavy losses - they are loosing tanks and artillery pieces in ongoing clashes. They are unable to bomb Ukrainians with impunity like they could in Syria. They are up against a foe which can fight back this time. Understand the difference.

Even Ukraine does not have much of an army to begin with. If Russia were to fight a technologically advanced and well-armed country like UK, Russia will suffer DEFEAT. Reality check.

Neo-Nazi Far-right groups exist in several countries including Russia. In case of Ukraine, entire country is being victimized for the Azov Group?

_A Pew Research Center survey from 2018 found that Ukraine is the most accepting nation in Central and Eastern European countries for Jews. White nationalism does exist in Ukraine, but not to the extent that Vladimir Putin appeared to imply – and certainly not enough to justify a full-scale invasion that has killed thousands of soldiers and innocent people._









Putin's Big War Lie: Ukraine Doesn't Have a Nazi Problem


While Nazi do exist in Ukraine, they are an extreme minority, with only 5% of Ukrainians stating that they would not accept Jews as citizens




www.19fortyfive.com





I have mentioned before that Bombing hospitals is NOT OK - no country should do this. My morals are fine. Thank you.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502189000521568258

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502185643174211586

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502184522238070786

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## 8888888888888

Clutch said:


> That's got to be the world's slowest least efficient artillery firing ever.... One shell per 30 min???


More like terror shell strikes



Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502189000521568258
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502185643174211586
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502184522238070786


Russians are going to copy the javelin, maybe China can buy a copy from Russia at a high price.

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## Shakuni Mama

Ukraine should have the means to strike few missiles at Russia. They are fighting in their backyard, though they are able to hit Ruskies there but the damage should have happen in Russia to make them understand what a war looks like. They should not be the one suffering alone in this war.


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## Madni Bappa

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502189000521568258
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502185643174211586
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502184522238070786


Damn Ukies trying really really hard to get NATO involved.

Hope Russia makes a copy or passes them Javelins onto China so we can get out hands on some top attack fire and forget systems.

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## beijingwalker

Shakuni Mama said:


> Ukraine should have the means to strike few missiles at Russia. They are fighting in their backyard, though they are able to hit Ruskies there but the damage should have happen in Russia to make them understand what a war looks like. They should not be the one suffering alone in this war.


A few missiles in Russia, Russian public sentiment and opinions on this war will no longer be divided, what a smart move. Russia might want to shoot some missiles to Russia themselves now, better killing some Russian civilians too. So dumb.

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## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> Russia buries 18-year-old conscript - its youngest victim of the Ukraine war - as anger grows over Putin sending teenage soldiers as cannon fodder​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia buries 18-year-old conscript - youngest victim of Ukraine war
> 
> 
> Yegor Pochkaenko was killed the day before his 19th birthday, after being moved 5,360 miles across his country to fight in Vladimir Putin's war amid row over sending teenage soldiers to Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk


Probably not too much anger. He's an ethnic Ukranian.



Foinikas said:


> They have been two different countries for more than 70 years


Is there anyone that recognises this? or just your own view?


----------



## sammuel

F-22Raptor said:


> Putin is surrounded by imbeciles. The fact they invaded during Rasputitsa just confirms the idiocy.




Really can't understand selecting this timing.

Have Putin not learned anything history ? Not read about Hitler in Russia ? Napoleon in Russia ?

Russian main advantage is not in soldiers . Ukrainians have no less man power on the ground now , and their troops are more familiar with the territory and are 10 time more motivated to fight , because they are protecting their homes and families.

Russia has a huge advantage is in heavy armor , artillery and countless number of planes that they can deploy.

Now this advantage is much reduced cause the armor find it hard to maneuver on anything but roads , and the planes find it harder to see targets cause of clouds.

I wonder who is the genius that came up with that plan.


A reminder from history :







Painting : Napoleon retreat from Russia 1812

~

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## LeGenD

Thinker3 said:


> What makes you think Russia will not hit the major bases around the world?
> Russia also have such plans and places.
> But the truth is that it will not be possible to rehabilitate such areas for hundreds of years not because of Nuclear winter but because of Nuclear fallout, Nuclear winds that will take radiation around, Radiation rain, radiated water and radiated land.





Spoiler: Click to check



Russians want the world to believe that they can do anything - this is not true.

Russian nuclear forces are composed of different types of ballistic missiles. Many are old designs and not accurate. CEP of relatively new RS-24 (Yars) is poor as well. Russian nuclear force is suitable for strategic military applications - to wipe out cities and other clearly visible targets. Russians cannot wipe out well-prepared American military installations, however.

American nuclear forces are optimized for tactical military applications on the other hand - to wipe out anything of value including military installations and deeply-buried facilities.









How US nuclear force modernization is undermining strategic stability: The burst-height compensating super-fuze


The combination of a lack of Russian situational awareness, dangerously short warning times, high-readiness alert postures, and the increasing US strike capacity resulting from a new fuzing system for submarine-based nuclear missiles has created a deeply destabilizing and dangerous strategic...




thebulletin.org









__





Warhead “Super-Fuze” Increases Targeting Capability Of US SSBN Force


By Hans M. Kristensen Under the cover of an otherwise legitimate life-extension of the W76 warhead, the Navy has quietly added a new super-fuze to the warhead that dramatically increases the ability of the Navy to destroy hard targets in Russia and other adversaries. In a new article in the Bu




fas.org





There are also classified American military technologies to factor-in. How many Russian ICBMs can they disable without firing a shot? One American military official hinted something to this effect recently.

Your assumption is based on Nuclear Winter hypothesis. Russia will be able to radiate some locations but not every location on Earth in a nuclear war. What you see in Terminator movies is the most likely outcome *minus* the machines trying to kill every human.



If you want to discuss this matter with me then request Private Conversation or open a new thread. This thread should stay on course.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502203504575885312


----------



## Shakuni Mama

beijingwalker said:


> A few missiles in Russia, Russian public sentiment and opinions on this war will no longer be divided, what a smart move. Russia might want to shoot some missiles to Russia themselves now, better killing some Russian civilians too. So dumb.



Lol so just to keep Russian sentiments and opinions for Ukraine, Ukraine must not do anything. BTW what these sentiments or opinions has done so far ? Does dictator like Putin or XI think of their people feelings before doing anything ? This is efffing war and there must not be only one side seeing the suffering. Ukrainians are dying, they are migrating from their land, their infrastructure is bombed..Do they need think of themselves or perception of Russians ?


----------



## Madni Bappa

sammuel said:


> and the planes find it harder to see targets cause of clouds.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502204259647041541


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## Madni Bappa

Shakuni Mama said:


> Lol so just to keep Russian sentiments and opinions for Ukraine, Ukraine must not do anything. BTW what these sentiments or opinions has done so far ? Does dictator like Putin or XI think of their people feelings before doing anything ? This is efffing war and there must not be only one side seeing the suffering. Ukrainians are dying, they are migrating from their land, their infrastructure is bombed..Do they need think of themselves or perception of Russians ?


Bad news for Ukraine if Putin sends even more gung ho badass mullah in addition to Chechens.

Is this the hadis you will fight with Christians. You will win. But Christians will say we won because of cross being fulfilled??


----------



## beijingwalker

Shakuni Mama said:


> Does dictator like Putin or XI think of their people feelings before doing anything ?


I don't know about Putin, but Xi cares, much better than your almighty Modi.

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## TNT

F-22Raptor said:


> First, that assessment has now dropped to 90%.
> 
> Second, your looking at it entirely wrong. Once that number drops to 70-80% the Russian military is in dire trouble. It won’t be able to fulfill its military objectives.



Says an Indonesian fisherman 😂😂😂.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502207976286953476Hint: To understand how fair and sincere people are, pay attention to their comments on this 'big' news. 

Here, some members said that Islamic terrorists were fighting in the ranks of Ukraine (no proof just propaganda), and they even made these claims a pure propaganda material by associating some countries. The same accounts will probably present Russia's move with a completely different story to you. As like 'brave muslim warriors', invader but, anti nazi, anti dictatorship freedom thugs, err, fighters.

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## Viet

Paul2 said:


> T-90s of Russia's strongest units were also popped in the first week of war.
> 
> T-90 doesn't bring much on top of T-72 as a chassis, it's mostly new electronics, and a new turret + a better ERA.
> 
> LAWs cannot penetrate T-72 front anyways, so new ERA doesn't make much difference, but everything else is even more vulnerable to modern weapons.
> 
> Very few Russian tanks were lost to tank on tank combat, and those which were, were destroyed by 9k112 tank launched ATGMs, and possibly the new Ukrainian tank launchable Kombat ATGM


That will be interesting to see whether or not Putin will deploy all tanks to the ukraine front. He will expose Russia naked to the Far East. I think he has 100 percent trust to communist China and imperial Japan.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502189126241726465

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## TNT

kingQamaR said:


> Its a battle that cant be won. You cant defeat an ideology. Even if they take the city the ukrainians will turn it into a full scale insurgency just like what happened to the US in the war on terror



Ok russia will loose and murica will win and then u can dance. Why are u posting similar stuff in each and every page? If u have some new stuff to share then do it, why are u cheerleading nonstop and trying to convince urself that ukrain is winning? 
Do the mods not call this trolling?
I doubt if ull ever be that much cheerleading for Pakistan if it comes to it. I am making a list of western cheerleaders here and next time Pakistan have issues with the west, i will be monitoring these cheerleaders, but am certain most are loyal murican servants.

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## LeGenD

gambit said:


> Basically, Poutine really wanted to reconstitute the Soviet empire under a different name.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin’s Fraudulent Foundation for Attacking Ukraine
> 
> 
> At a rambling photo-op, Putin rehashed the fake historical narrative he’s constructed to justify attacking Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.polygraph.info


Nice find.

Added to my thread.

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## gambit

patero said:


> *Know thy enemy I'm guessing looking at that collection*, and nice touch with Tony Stark and Steve Rogers.
> 
> I was thinking the other day there was some mention of Russian mobile crematoriums, it reminded me of Suvorovs first day on the job with GRU when his new CO showed him the film of a man being thrown alive into a furnace and being told 'dead or alive, there is only one way to leave our organisation: the furnace.' I wonder if deceased Russian soldiers in this conflict will be cremated and 'unpersoned'.


The Soviet/Russia section in my home library is three shelves. My current book count is 832 books, mostly nonfiction. One of my favorite books in the Soviet/Russia section is _'Reluctant Farewell'_ by Andrew Nagorski, American journalist for Newsweek in several countries. You can see his book in that photo behind Tony Stark. Another favorite is _'A Time For Peace'_ by Mikhail Gorbachev. Both men gave valuable and insightful perspectives of the Soviet Union from unique positions.

As far as Suvurov go, the GRU have always been more mysterious than the KGB and for what it is worth, and if we take him at face value, the GRU is even more dangerous than the KGB. Here is why the GRU had more operational latitude regarding what it is allowed to do to anyone, even to its own, in the book 'Soviet Military Intelligence':

In Chapter Seven, "The GRU and the KGB":

The basic function of the KGB may be expressed in one guiding phrase, _not to allow the collapse of the Soviet Union from inside. _Every specific function stems from this.​​The function of the GRU may also be stated in one parallel, but quite different phrase: _to prevent the collapse of the Soviet Union from an external blow._​
So when we see the scope of the GRU's mission, it is understandable of the brutality of the GRU when you mentioned Suvurov's incident. The GRU have to deal with external threats unknown to common Soviet citizens so the organization had to be harsh.

Suvurov was also blunt about other countries. In Chapter Six, "The GRU and the Younger Brothers":

It is a fact that the peoples of all countries in thrall to the Soviet Union hate the Soviet communists; but none the less their intelligence services services work to the full extent of their powers in the interests of the elder brother. The solution to this riddle is this. By means of harsh economic treaties the Soviet Union has enchained all its 'younger brothers'. For Soviet oil and coal, electric energy and gas they all have to pay very heavily. The Soviet Union proposes to its satellites that 'you may pay by means of your own wares or you may pay by providing the secrets of other people'.​​So it seemed during the Cold War yrs, the KGB and the GRU had greater multiples of intelligence sources than the West did.

Western states have been surprised by the extent of the intelligence interests of the communist states. Why should Mongolian intelligence be interested in atomic reactors, or Cuban intelligence in high-powered rocket engines? These questions are easily answered as soon as one realises that they are all part of one gigantic information. In the ranks of officials of Soviet state institutions overseas it is almost impossible to find one 'clean' one. All Soviet citizens, from ambassadors to cleaning staff, in one way or another co-operate with the KGB or the GRU. The same thing is true of the official institutions of the 'fraternal countries'.​​As a side note, China's 'National Security Law' seems to be fashioned similarly to the Soviet version, that every Chinese citizen can be co-opted at any time into state intelligence service.

Fast forward to today with Vladimir Putin, with what we learned from Suvurov of the KGB and the GRU, Poutine made the various American CIA directors downright amateurish, and now he has been ruling Russia for 20 yrs with the combined services and global experience of the KGB and GRU under his command. A KGB man now able to override the institutional rivalries and barriers between the KGB and the GRU for his own benefits.

I see people in this forum, and in this Russia-Ukraine war topic, admires and praises Poutine without a clue of the world he came from and how it shaped him to what we see today. The literature I have are nearly 40 yrs old but they are still relevant because the people that are shaped by the information from inside these literature are *STILL* alive and no less ambitious than when they were clawing their ways bloodily up the Soviet institutions of power.

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## Metal 0-1

Madni Bappa said:


> Big question in my mind is why Russia hasn't sent in Special Forces?











Toyotas of War on Instagram: "Hilux convoy on way to Ukraine border. Russian SSO vehicles. Dear zuk- This video is for documentation and historical purposes only."


Toyotas of War shared a post on Instagram: "Hilux convoy on way to Ukraine border. Russian SSO vehicles. Dear zuk- This video is for documentation and historical purposes only.". Follow their account to see 1389 posts.




www.instagram.com


----------



## sammuel

Madni Bappa said:


> View attachment 822950


your point ?


----------



## Vergennes

Situation must be very bad if Putin needs mercenaries from the middle east lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502213393289478147

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## gambit

Menthol said:


> But Russia is needed to balance the world power for whatever it is.
> 
> As well as the West is needed to balance out Russia and China.
> 
> And why do you think the West is not going to misuse its power once Russia is gone?
> 
> Let the world be like that.


So you are saying that metaphysically, a yin-yang status is required. That globally speaking, there has to be 1/2 of the population under oppressive governments.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502202424467075073


----------



## Zibago

Vergennes said:


> Situation must be very bad if Putin needs mercenaries from the middle east lmao
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502213393289478147


So Syrian forces? This is going to get really messy


----------



## vizier

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502202424467075073




Volunteers will be used possibly in Mariopol attack soon. Civilians are not evacuated as yet but a smaller theater emulating Kiev can be replicated there with artillery strikes followed by volunteers flooding to take the city and take out azov battalion. There would be possibly no holding back for civilians trapped there as well.

Possible solutions can be brokering a safe exit with Un for civilians as well as anyone that give up heavy arms and no id check. Similar to safe exit routes used in Syria that Russian side might also accept. Otherwise civilians there will be trapped and it seems to be unwinnable for Ukraine military inside as well. Then use the soldiers elsewhere instead of attrition warfare against volunteers and continious bombing. That can be considered if Mariopol is not considered to be too strategic and also not defendable long term by Ukraine side depending on the arms inside.

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## Invicta

Menthol said:


> Why do you think indirect involvement is not an act of aggression?
> 
> Someone is kidnapping your little sister, to hurt you indirectly, but indirectly it's not directly, since it's not you who is being kidnapped, so there's no reason for you to be angry and panic.
> 
> But you know, that logic is misleading.
> 
> 
> I think between the end of the year or next year, you will see the result of Russia's action.
> 
> WW3 will be quick, very quick, just an hour.
> 
> You will know it's WW3 just an hour later, assuming you are still alive in the UK, and you know suddenly the conflict is ended.
> 
> 
> I don't know whatever today is a fake peace or a fake danger.
> 
> But many say we are living in a fake peace while a huge huge huge danger that all humanity in the past has never seen before is actually the real reality.
> 
> Someone is blind and playing with big fire right now.
> 
> I don't think people in UK, Europe, USA, Russia, China, and the rest of the world want a war or any conflict.
> 
> But that is what we are being pushed by idiots.


Because it is not, anti-tank weapons and anti-air weapons are being used to protect cities from Russian aircraft and armour, they are useless if there is no Russian armour/aircraft to fire these on. So the solution is simple for Russians if they don't want to risk getting shot by these weapons they can stay away in Russia.

As far as doomsday is concerned its quite enjoyable watching the change in tone on this forum.
First it was the almighty bear claiming its rightful place, the brave Chechens moving in to help their savior Putin. Now it's about MAD and how Russia is using third or fourth Tier forces - and I am supposed to imagine how bad things would have been if they used their first tier forces.

Maybe Putin could have done us all a favour and used his top tier force in the first instance and this would have been over by now as most Russian fanboys keep on harping about it.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502190819817803777

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## UKBengali

Invicta said:


> Because it is not, anti-tank weapons and anti-air weapons are being used to protect cities from Russian aircraft and armour, they are useless if there is no Russian armour/aircraft to fire these on. So the solution is simple for Russians if they don't want to risk getting shot by these weapons they can stay away in Russia.
> 
> As far as doomsday is concerned its quite enjoyable watching the change in tone on this forum.
> First it was the almighty bear claiming its rightful place, the brave Chechens moving in to help their savior Putin. Now it's about MAD and how Russia is using third or fourth Tier forces - and I am supposed to imagine how bad things would have been if they used their first tier forces.
> 
> Maybe Putin could have done us all a favour and used his top tier force in the first instance and this would have been over by now as most Russian fanboys keep on harping about it.





Yep the Russians are not a good conventional military at all.

If you look at the size of the military budget and the number of service personnel and equipment they have it makes total sense.

Remember around half their defence budget goes on nuclear weapons and delivery system and so there is no much left over for purchasing, training and operating costs in the conventional sector.

The other important point is the motivation is wildly different between the two sides - Ukrainians are fighting on their land while the Russians have been sent into someone else's.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502220730016182272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502220145925705729

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## Invicta

UKBengali said:


> Yep the Russians are not a good conventional military at all.
> 
> If you look at the size of the military budget and the number of service personnel and equipment they have it makes total sense.
> 
> Remember around *half their defence budget goes on nuclear weapons and delivery system* and so there is no much left over for purchasing, training and operating costs in the conventional sector.
> 
> The other important point is the motivation is wildly different between the two sides - Ukrainians are fighting on their land while the Russians have been sent into someone else's.


They do lack an overall good military, yes there is no denying that they have some crack units which are renowned world over. Like we found in Falklands you cannot send SAS for every mission these crack units have their own mission profiles and they excel in them. Throw in a Para or RM or even a Guardsman and you have a different caliber of grunt- jack of all trades master of none.

And yes the motivation factor is with the Ukrainians and will remain so even if they loose all the cities. If anything they will become more bitter towards the occupation forces and Putin doesn't have time to take on an insurgency.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502230284376367108

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## Vergennes

Invicta said:


> They do lack an overall good military, yes there is no denying that they have some crack units which are renowned world over. Like we found in Falklands you cannot send SAS for every mission these crack units have their own mission profiles and they excel in them. Throw in a Para or RM or even a Guardsman and you have a different caliber of grunt- jack of all trades master of none.
> 
> And yes the motivation factor is with the Ukrainians and will remain so even if they loose all the cities. If anything they will become more bitter towards the occupation forces and Putin doesn't have time to take on an insurgency.



The VDV which are supposed to be "Russia's crème de la crème" are being humiliated left and right,I couldn't imagine the rest of the army.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502230643291430917


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## Invicta

Vergennes said:


> The VDV which are supposed to be "Russia's crème de la crème" are being humiliated left and right,I couldn't imagine the rest of the army.


Yes rumor's are that they have lost quite a few senior officers and many of their raids have gone pear shaped. Only think left now is for Russia to actually release information on their losses - which will probably never happen.

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## dBSPL

Not Photoshop, and there is no use of images unrelated to the news. A real video totally on the topic. But With Russian flag.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502232208781762560

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502219304728621057

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## Foinikas

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502078673196920839


You should also notice that Oryx is heavily pro-Ukrainian,but like OSINT said,it's more or less ok. From what I've heard,the Russian tank losses were a bit above 100,not 173.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502215534837960704


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## Foinikas

dBSPL said:


> Not Photoshop, and there is no use of images unrelated to the news. A real video totally on the topic. But With Russian flag.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502232208781762560


If you have to resort to taking Syrians from the SAA to fight for you in Ukraine...then your army has problems. The Syrians have manpower problems and he accepted to take them there?


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## LeGenD

Russia Makes Crazy Claim That U.S. Is Training Birds To Spread A Ukrainian Bioweapon (Updated)​The Kremlin's invasion has now entered its 16th day and Russian forces continue to struggle to make real progress toward their objectives on the ground in Ukraine. In addition to turning to increasingly more brutal siege tactics in efforts to secure a number of important cities, which is causing a growing number of civilian casualties, Russian authorities look to be stepping up their disinformation campaign. Today, among other things, the Russian Ministry of Defense made a wholly unsubstantiated and outright bizarre claim that the U.S. government is somehow training birds infected with or otherwise carrying biological weapons to fly from Ukraine to Russia.

You can get yourself up to speed on the current state of the war in Ukraine with our previous rolling coverage here and then dive into the latest news below.









Russia Makes Crazy Claim That U.S. Is Training Birds To Spread A Ukrainian Bioweapon (Updated)


The Kremlin appears to be ramping up its disinformation campaign to a totally absurd degree as the conflict in Ukraine drags on.




www.thedrive.com

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## dBSPL

Foinikas said:


> If you have to resort to taking Syrians from the SAA to fight for you in Ukraine...then your army has problems. The Syrians have manpower problems and he accepted to take them there?





LeGenD said:


> Russia Makes Crazy Claim That U.S. Is Training Birds To Spread A Ukrainian Bioweapon (Updated)​The Kremlin's invasion has now entered its 16th day and Russian forces continue to struggle to make real progress toward their objectives on the ground in Ukraine. In addition to turning to increasingly more brutal siege tactics in efforts to secure a number of important cities, which is causing a growing number of civilian casualties, Russian authorities look to be stepping up their disinformation campaign. Today, among other things, the Russian Ministry of Defense made a wholly unsubstantiated and outright bizarre claim that the U.S. government is somehow training birds infected with or otherwise carrying biological weapons to fly from Ukraine to Russia.
> 
> You can get yourself up to speed on the current state of the war in Ukraine with our previous rolling coverage here and then dive into the latest news below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Makes Crazy Claim That U.S. Is Training Birds To Spread A Ukrainian Bioweapon (Updated)
> 
> 
> The Kremlin appears to be ramping up its disinformation campaign to a totally absurd degree as the conflict in Ukraine drags on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com



We are fighting against the Nazis
We are fighting against Islamic terrorists in Ukraine
We are destroying biological/nuclear weapons in Ukraine.

Sound familiar from somewhere?

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## LeGenD

Tu-141 "Strizh" Missile-Like Drone From The War In Ukraine Looks To Have Crashed In Croatia​In what can only be deemed a totally bizarre event, Croatia's capital of Zagreb was awakened to a loud blast just hours ago only to find a large crater filled with what appeared to be aircraft parts. Some said it was a plane that crashed and that parachutes were seen nearby, others said it was a missile. After close examination of the visual evidence, _The War Zone_ strongly believes this was actually a Tu-141 "Strizh" reconnaissance drone that must have severely malfunctioned and crossed over the entirety of Hungary or parts of neighboring countries and into Croatia from Ukraine. Flying direct from Ukraine's border to Zagreb is nearly a 350-mile journey. It has been reported that Ukraine has been putting the high-speed, Soviet-era drones to work in recent days following Russia's invasion of the country. Ukraine is the only known current operator of the Tu-141.

We were first alerted to the mysterious crash by @Darkstar_OSINT who quickly briefed us on the strange situation and the claims surrounding it. Upon inspecting the wreckage and considering the odd and somewhat conflicting reports, as well as the biggest news story of the year occurring in the region, we concluded only one aircraft really fit the bill—the Tu-141. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502075701926797316

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502073947629699076
It just so happens one of the wings was left largely intact, allowing us to verify our hunch. Still, the fact that this drone flew so far off course is both puzzling and alarming. But it would not be the first loss of the Tu-141 of the war. Another went down in Ukraine just days ago.

The Tu-141 is a fascinating piece of Soviet-era hardware that Ukraine has upgraded and made useful following the invasion of Crimea in 2014. More of a cruise missile than a traditional drone, the aircraft is rocket-launched from its trailer and flies a predetermined course at transonic speed, collecting various forms of intelligence, before recovering via parachute. It can then be reset and used again. 









Tu-141 "Strizh" Missile-Like Drone From The War In Ukraine Looks To Have Crashed In Croatia (Updated)


The mysterious craft that slammed into Croatia's capital appears to be a Soviet-era jet-powered drone that only Ukraine operates.




www.thedrive.com


----------



## jamahir

dBSPL said:


> Not Photoshop, and there is no use of images unrelated to the news. A real video totally on the topic. But With Russian flag.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502232208781762560





Foinikas said:


> If you have to resort to taking Syrians from the SAA to fight for you in Ukraine...then your army has problems. The Syrians have manpower problems and he accepted to take them there?



It is a reciprocal action that the Syrians and possibly some Palestinians will now be helping Russia in Ukraine just like how Russia has been helping Syria defend against the same puppet master - NATO.



Foinikas said:


> You should also notice that Oryx is heavily pro-Ukrainian,but like OSINT said,it's more or less ok. From what I've heard,the Russian tank losses were a bit above 100,not 173.



Don't bother debating these mindless people. One day they will claim that 99 Russian tanks were lost ( Oryx ), the next day 300+ ( The Kyiv "Independent" ). A bunch of liars and disinfo experts.

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## Foinikas

dBSPL said:


> We are fighting against the Nazis
> We are fighting against Islamic terrorists in Ukraine
> We are destroying biological/nuclear weapons in Ukraine.
> 
> Sound familiar from somewhere?


America?

Lol I just saw this video on Facebook,someone had shared it saying "So how did the sea reach Kharkov?" 

The person who originally uploaded it must have taken a video from Beirut and said it's from Kharkov...


----------



## dBSPL

Aggressor side's AD systems and Aircraft losses, during first 2 week:​
Self-propelled Anti-Aircraft Guns (8, of which destroyed: 5, abandoned: 3)​
8 2K22M1 Tunguska: (1, 2, 3 and 4, abandoned and later destroyed) (5, abandoned and later destroyed) (6, damaged and abandoned) (7, abandoned) (8, abandoned)
 
Surface-To-Air Missile Systems (28, of which destroyed: 11, damaged: 1, abandoned: 6, captured: 10)​
6 9K33 Osa: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, damaged and abandoned) (4, abandoned) (5, captured) (6, captured)
4 9K35 Strela-10: (1, abandoned) (2, abandoned) (3, abandoned) (4, captured)
2 9A310M1 TELAR (for Buk-M1-2): (1, destroyed by Bayraktar TB2) (2, damaged)
1 9A39M1 TEL (for Buk-M1-2): (1, destroyed by Bayraktar TB2)
3 9A310M2 TELAR (for Buk-M2): (1, destroyed by Bayraktar TB2) (2, destroyed by Bayraktar TB2) (3, destroyed by Bayraktar TB2)
1 9A39M2 TEL (for Buk-M2): (1, destroyed by Bayraktar TB2)
3 9A330 Tor TLAR (for 9K330 Tor-M): (1, abandoned) (2, captured) (3, captured)
2 9A331 TLAR (for 9K331 Tor-M1): (1, abandoned and destroyed) (2, captured)
2 9A331M TLAR (for 9K332 Tor-M2): (1, destroyed by Bayraktar TB2) (2, captured) 
4 Pantsir-S1: (1, abandoned and destroyed) (2, captured) (3, captured) (4, captured)

Radars (1, of which destroyed: 1)​
1 9S18М1(-1) (for Buk-M1-2): (1, destroyed)
 
Jammers And Deception Systems (1, of which damaged: 1)​
1 R-330BMV Borisoglebsk-2B: (1, damaged)

Aircraft (12, of which destroyed: 12)​
5 Su-25 close air support aircraft: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, destroyed) (4, destroyed) (5, destroyed)
2 Su-30SM multirole aircraft: (1, destroyed on the ground) (2, destroyed)
4 Su-34 strike aircraft: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, destroyed) (4, destroyed)
1 An-26 transport aircraft: (1, destroyed)

Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (3, of which destroyed: 1, captured: 2)​
1 E95M target drone (likely used as unmanned bait in order for Ukraine to reveal the location of air defence systems): (1, captured)
1 Orlan-10 reconnaissance UAV: (1, destroyed)
1 Eleron-3 reconnaissance UAV: (1, captured)
 
Helicopters (12, of which destroyed: 9, damaged: 1, abandoned: 2)​
2 Mi-8 transport helicopter: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed)
2 Mi-24V/P attack helicopter: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed)
2 Mi-35M attack helicopter: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed)
3 Unknown Mi-24/35 attack helicopter: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, damaged)
3 Ka-52 'Alligator' attack helicopter: (1, destroyed) (2, damaged and abandoned) (3, damaged and abandoned)
 _________________________________________________________________________________________

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## sammuel

LeGenD said:


> Russia Makes Crazy Claim That U.S. Is Training Birds To Spread A Ukrainian Bioweapon (Updated)​The Kremlin's invasion has now entered its 16th day and Russian forces continue to struggle to make real progress toward their objectives on the ground in Ukraine. In addition to turning to increasingly more brutal siege tactics in efforts to secure a number of important cities, which is causing a growing number of civilian casualties, Russian authorities look to be stepping up their disinformation campaign. Today, among other things, the Russian Ministry of Defense made a wholly unsubstantiated and outright bizarre claim that the U.S. government is somehow training birds infected with or otherwise carrying biological weapons to fly from Ukraine to Russia.
> 
> You can get yourself up to speed on the current state of the war in Ukraine with our previous rolling coverage here and then dive into the latest news below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Makes Crazy Claim That U.S. Is Training Birds To Spread A Ukrainian Bioweapon (Updated)
> 
> 
> The Kremlin appears to be ramping up its disinformation campaign to a totally absurd degree as the conflict in Ukraine drags on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com





dBSPL said:


> We are fighting against the Nazis
> We are fighting against Islamic terrorists in Ukraine
> We are destroying biological/nuclear weapons in Ukraine.
> 
> Sound familiar from somewhere?


"
We are fighting against the Nazis
We are fighting against Islamic terrorists in Ukraine
We are destroying biological/nuclear weapons in Ukraine. "



We are fighting birds !

It is bird season






~

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## UKBengali

Invicta said:


> Yes rumor's are that they have lost quite a few senior officers and many of their raids have gone pear shaped. Only think left now is for Russia to actually release information on their losses - which will probably never happen.





Yes they got booted out of the airport outside Kyiv after they took it on the 2nd day.

I think they have certainly lost thousands killed so far but probably nowhere near the 11,000 claimed by Ukraine.

Losses on both sides are a tragedy as 99% of Russian personnel in Ukraine had no say in going in and probably don't want to be there to kill or be killed.

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## dBSPL

sammuel said:


> "
> We are fighting against the Nazis
> We are fighting against Islamic terrorists in Ukraine
> We are destroying biological/nuclear weapons in Ukraine. "
> 
> 
> 
> We are fighting birds !
> 
> It is bird season
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


Your 'bird' analogy reminds that:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502127111980605449

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## Invicta

UKBengali said:


> Yes they got booted out of the airport outside Kyiv after they took it on the 2nd day.
> 
> I think they have certainly lost thousands killed so far but probably nowhere near the 11,000 claimed by Ukraine.
> 
> Losses on both sides are a tragedy as 99% of Russian personnel in Ukraine had no say in going in and probably don't want to be there to kill or be killed.


I was going to mention that but wasn't sure if they were VDV or other Heli borne units.


----------



## Type59

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502189000521568258
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502185643174211586
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502184522238070786



I be shocked, if Iran does not purchase any of these captured weapons. Reverse engineered Javelin would be a key asset for Hezbollah. Trophy anti atgm system is not effective against top attack weapons.


----------



## Wood

Putin should be made to pay financially for all this damage.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502246428105756673


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502232208781762560


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502241760784883714

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Foinikas

dBSPL said:


> Aggressor side's AD systems and Aircraft losses, during first 2 week:​
> Self-propelled Anti-Aircraft Guns (8, of which destroyed: 5, abandoned: 3)​
> 8 2K22M1 Tunguska: (1, 2, 3 and 4, abandoned and later destroyed) (5, abandoned and later destroyed) (6, damaged and abandoned) (7, abandoned) (8, abandoned)
> 
> Surface-To-Air Missile Systems (28, of which destroyed: 11, damaged: 1, abandoned: 6, captured: 10)​
> 6 9K33 Osa: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, damaged and abandoned) (4, abandoned) (5, captured) (6, captured)
> 4 9K35 Strela-10: (1, abandoned) (2, abandoned) (3, abandoned) (4, captured)
> 2 9A310M1 TELAR (for Buk-M1-2): (1, destroyed by Bayraktar TB2) (2, damaged)
> 1 9A39M1 TEL (for Buk-M1-2): (1, destroyed by Bayraktar TB2)
> 3 9A310M2 TELAR (for Buk-M2): (1, destroyed by Bayraktar TB2) (2, destroyed by Bayraktar TB2) (3, destroyed by Bayraktar TB2)
> 1 9A39M2 TEL (for Buk-M2): (1, destroyed by Bayraktar TB2)
> 3 9A330 Tor TLAR (for 9K330 Tor-M): (1, abandoned) (2, captured) (3, captured)
> 2 9A331 TLAR (for 9K331 Tor-M1): (1, abandoned and destroyed) (2, captured)
> 2 9A331M TLAR (for 9K332 Tor-M2): (1, destroyed by Bayraktar TB2) (2, captured)
> 4 Pantsir-S1: (1, abandoned and destroyed) (2, captured) (3, captured) (4, captured)
> 
> Radars (1, of which destroyed: 1)​
> 1 9S18М1(-1) (for Buk-M1-2): (1, destroyed)
> 
> Jammers And Deception Systems (1, of which damaged: 1)​
> 1 R-330BMV Borisoglebsk-2B: (1, damaged)
> 
> Aircraft (12, of which destroyed: 12)​
> 5 Su-25 close air support aircraft: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, destroyed) (4, destroyed) (5, destroyed)
> 2 Su-30SM multirole aircraft: (1, destroyed on the ground) (2, destroyed)
> 4 Su-34 strike aircraft: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, destroyed) (4, destroyed)
> 1 An-26 transport aircraft: (1, destroyed)
> 
> Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (3, of which destroyed: 1, captured: 2)​
> 1 E95M target drone (likely used as unmanned bait in order for Ukraine to reveal the location of air defence systems): (1, captured)
> 1 Orlan-10 reconnaissance UAV: (1, destroyed)
> 1 Eleron-3 reconnaissance UAV: (1, captured)
> 
> Helicopters (12, of which destroyed: 9, damaged: 1, abandoned: 2)​
> 2 Mi-8 transport helicopter: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed)
> 2 Mi-24V/P attack helicopter: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed)
> 2 Mi-35M attack helicopter: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed)
> 3 Unknown Mi-24/35 attack helicopter: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, damaged)
> 3 Ka-52 'Alligator' attack helicopter: (1, destroyed) (2, damaged and abandoned) (3, damaged and abandoned)
> _________________________________________________________________________________________


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502258217035907072

Reactions: Like Like:
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## UKBengali

Russians will be mainly relegated to high-altitude regime when the Ukrainians get supplies of the UK's StarStreak missile.

It flies at Mach 3+, max altitude of 5km and is very difficult to jam.

The war is just going to be more costly for both sides.

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## dBSPL

NATO General Secretary, Stoltenberg:

"We asked Turkey to impose sanctions on Russia."

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502264206237786113First, everyone lift the sanctions on Turkey, give back stolen jets, stop arming terrorists, then we can talk about...

(Russia must act quickly btw.)

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502260149163073539
Another Russian General killed

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## Wood

dBSPL said:


> NATO General Secretary, Stoltenberg:
> 
> "We asked Turkey to impose sanctions on Russia."
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502264206237786113First, everyone lift the sanctions on Turkey, give back stolen jets, stop arming terrorists, then we can talk about...
> 
> (Russia must act quickly btw.)


If Turkey keeps supplying them drones to Ukraine, it may be welcomed back into the F 35 program

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## RescueRanger

CrazyZ said:


> I saw some news reports of westerners going to Ukraine to sign up and fight. When they learn the contract is open ended and they are not allowed to go home.......they refuse to commit and leave Ukraine.


A lot of foreign volunteers have been rejected by the Ukrainians - they only want people with skills and experience / such as military- combat- medical and engineering.

The thrill chases who thought that they would go for a few weeks and come back with selfies have found out the following:


You are a volunteer so you won’t be paid 
Your citizenship when you return may be revoked or you may face criminal charges
As food and resources run out the Ukranians are busy equipping and supporting their own -120,000 Ukrainian nationals who joined as volunteers
No training will be provided because they expect you to turn up knowing what to do
There is very limited primitive medical care facilities - so if you get injured or suffer from trauma you may not be able to get medical care beyond first aid.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502269876999757831

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502269878622994440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502269880036474882

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502269881449861124

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502269882892800007

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502269884289503233

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## thetutle

dBSPL said:


> Not Photoshop, and there is no use of images unrelated to the news. A real video totally on the topic. But With Russian flag.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502232208781762560



Anyone that has Arabs fighting for them is in truly big trouble. When have they ever won a war? 1300 years ago?

And if these Syrians ever make it to Ukraine, how many of them will go straight to the polish border to surrender and claim asylum in the EU? Their choice is die for Russia or free social security in Germany.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502269885593882624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502269886961262593

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502269888324411392

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502269889955999748

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502269891189092358


----------



## Menthol

gambit said:


> So you are saying that metaphysically, a yin-yang status is required. That globally speaking, there has to be 1/2 of the population under oppressive governments.



That is the blind and selfishness of the USA, that destroyed the world.


----------



## thetutle

Type59 said:


> I be shocked, if Iran does not purchase any of these captured weapons. Reverse engineered Javelin would be a key asset for Hezbollah. Trophy anti atgm system is not effective against top attack weapons.


They are game changing weapons. Th only Thing is, how would Iran reverse engineer it? do they have that capability?


----------



## Menthol

LeGenD said:


> Russia Makes Crazy Claim That U.S. Is Training Birds To Spread A Ukrainian Bioweapon (Updated)​The Kremlin's invasion has now entered its 16th day and Russian forces continue to struggle to make real progress toward their objectives on the ground in Ukraine. In addition to turning to increasingly more brutal siege tactics in efforts to secure a number of important cities, which is causing a growing number of civilian casualties, Russian authorities look to be stepping up their disinformation campaign. Today, among other things, the Russian Ministry of Defense made a wholly unsubstantiated and outright bizarre claim that the U.S. government is somehow training birds infected with or otherwise carrying biological weapons to fly from Ukraine to Russia.
> 
> You can get yourself up to speed on the current state of the war in Ukraine with our previous rolling coverage here and then dive into the latest news below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Makes Crazy Claim That U.S. Is Training Birds To Spread A Ukrainian Bioweapon (Updated)
> 
> 
> The Kremlin appears to be ramping up its disinformation campaign to a totally absurd degree as the conflict in Ukraine drags on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com



It's not 100% crazy.

If you ever read many articles in the past, USA bioweapons are related to the birds.

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502274947594522633


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502233315348209668

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## خره مينه لګته وي

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502276590876692485

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## maverick1977

since conventional warfare is stalling, tactical nukes might become a new thing in battlefields

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502269730496913414
USAF veteran

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## Messerschmitt

Type59 said:


> I be shocked, if Iran does not purchase any of these captured weapons. Reverse engineered Javelin would be a key asset for Hezbollah. Trophy anti atgm system is not effective against top attack weapons.


Iran already reverse engineered the Israeli Spike ATGM which is capable of performing a top-attack.

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## bobo6661

maverick1977 said:


> since conventional warfare is stalling, tactical nukes might become a new thing in battlefields


if they use nukes forget about sanction getting lifted and guess even more countrys could join the ban ...


----------



## Invicta

UKBengali said:


> Russians will be mainly relegated to high-altitude regime when the Ukrainians get supplies of the UK's StarStreak missile.
> 
> It flies at Mach 3+, max altitude of 5km and is very difficult to jam.
> 
> The war is just going to be more costly for both sides.


High altitude restriction means more indiscriminate bombardment by the Russians and they are already struggling with hitting military targets as things stand. Expect the civilian casualty count to sky rocket.

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## Boxer1122

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502269876999757831
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502269878622994440
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502269880036474882
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502269881449861124
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502269882892800007
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502269884289503233



Russia is changing tactics. More focus is headed towards the South / East and the 40 mile column will be dispersed. It wasn't 'ALL' meant for Kiev. They'll try to cut the land routes from Dniper river all the way back to Russia.

More Russian air assaults to start as well as efforts for amphibious and land assault on Odessa, moving towards Poland.

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## Wood




----------



## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502274947594522633



The guy clearly ejected, his seat is still on him.


----------



## dBSPL

A group trained by the Russian mercenary force Wagner in the Central African Republic shared a video explaining that they want to volunteer to fight on the side of Russia against Ukraine.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502283995324854278

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## Paul2

Day 15:

Ukraine detached multiple platoon size units to go into the field, and pick off stragglers from the retreating Russian reserve, and flanking Russians north of Kiyv.

Same thing around Kharkiv. Remains of units previously enacting encirclement from the West are being picked off.

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## oberschlesier

dBSPL said:


> A group trained by the Russian mercenary force Wagner in the Central African Republic shared a video explaining that they want to volunteer to fight on the side of Russia against Ukraine.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502283995324854278


It`s -7 Degrees in the night in Kiev. A bit cold, even for me.


----------



## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502269889955999748



It's both a threat, and opportunity.

Big open fields = rule of big guns

Take a look











Very long, straight roads, and no cover:

Air cover, and its denial will be crucial
Enfilade conditions
Whomever catches enemy in the open field, and outranges him wins
Possible attack plans:

Swiftly retaking towns with small forces, driving out smaller, single platoon Russian deployments
Building a defence line with the main force: artillery, armour, SAMs, infantry cordon with MANPADS, and ATGM teams
Advance the line with each cleared town
Let flushed enemies, and enemy reinforcements crash into the firepower concentration

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## dBSPL

Ukroboronprom announced that it will pay $1 million for each working Russian fixed-wing aircraft and $500,000 for each rotary-wing aircraft. There will be full protection and freedom, as well as wealth, for these pilots and their families.

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## dBSPL

Kazakhstan will deliver 82 tons of humanitarian aid to Ukraine, including 25 kinds of medicines worth $2.2 million, according to the statement from the Embassy of Kazakhstan in Brussels.

Kazakhstan does not hesitate to help Ukraine.

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## F-22Raptor

dBSPL said:


> Ukroboronprom announced that it will pay $1 million for each working Russian fixed-wing aircraft and $500,000 for each rotary-wing aircraft. There will be full protection and freedom, as well as wealth, for these pilots and their families.



If true, that's a life changing opportunity for Russian pilots.


----------



## Clutch




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502290574770163712
Ukrainian farmers strike again

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## Baghial

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502290574770163712
> Ukrainian farmers strike agai




GRAND THEFT IVAN-ARMORY UKRAINE EDITION 2022 UKRAINE


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502285002041700360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502039033689612289

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502293369078358024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502295080987672581


----------



## beast89

RescueRanger said:


> A lot of foreign volunteers have been rejected by the Ukrainians - they only want people with skills and experience / such as military- combat- medical and engineering.
> 
> The thrill chases who thought that they would go for a few weeks and come back with selfies have found out the following:
> 
> 
> You are a volunteer so you won’t be paid
> Your citizenship when you return may be revoked or you may face criminal charges
> As food and resources run out the Ukranians are busy equipping and supporting their own -120,000 Ukrainian nationals who joined as volunteers
> No training will be provided because they expect you to turn up knowing what to do
> There is very limited primitive medical care facilities - so if you get injured or suffer from trauma you may not be able to get medical care beyond first aid.


also it is a contract, you stay til the war is over

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## dBSPL

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502290574770163712
> Ukrainian farmers strike again


Now I'm sure that this farmer is building his own layered air defense system. There should also be many armored combat vehicles, size of a battalion.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502287783204999171
21st century Heinrich Himmler

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## RescueRanger

beast89 said:


> also it is a contract, you stay til the war is over


That’s if you survive 😂


----------



## Madni Bappa

Vergennes said:


> Situation must be very bad if Putin needs mercenaries from the middle east lmao
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502213393289478147


When Ukraine begs people to come and fight from London. Then it's all good.

Russia does it then it's not going bad for them?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502302866148675587

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## Madni Bappa

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502287783204999171
> 21st century Heinrich Himmler







21st century Karen

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## sammuel

~

 Instagram banned in Russia over 'calls to violence'​
*Russia's state media watchdog Roskomnadzor says Instagram will be blocked in the country due to "calls for violence" against Russian soldiers.*

Instagram owner Meta said it would let its users in some countries call for violence against Russian President Vladimir Putin and Russian soldiers.

It will temporarily allow some violent posts such as "death to the Russian invaders" that usually break its rules.
However, it says it won't permit calls for violence against Russian civilians.

In response to Meta's shift in policy, Russia called on the US to stop the social media giant's "extremist activities".
On Friday, the Russian Prosecutor General's Office called for a criminal investigation to be launched against Meta, citing Russian propaganda and extremism laws, according to a statement quoted by privately-owned news agency Interfax.









War in Ukraine: Instagram banned in Russia over 'calls to violence'


Instagram owner Meta has allowed users in some countries to call for violence against Russia's army.



www.bbc.com


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502305232210046980
Russian command and control is absolute dogs**t

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502305232210046980
> Russian command and control is absolute dogs**t


are they just being sniped?


----------



## F-22Raptor

Wood said:


> are they just being sniped?




Russians comms are such trash that Generals are having to operate closer to the lines of contact. I think the US is attacking Russian comms and networks to be honest.

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## beijingwalker

Biden to call for end of trade relations with Russia​




Putin offers warning as Western companies pause operations in Russia, their assets in China could be seized​


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502311504904863749

Russian Generals and advisors to Putin are complete imbeciles

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## dBSPL

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502311504904863749
> 
> Russian Generals and advisors to Putin are complete imbeciles


flattery > merit


----------



## Madni Bappa

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502311504904863749
> 
> Russian Generals and advisors to Putin are complete imbeciles


Winter Olympics


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502309515743666177


----------



## dBSPL

Ukrainian intelligence

The Belarusian Army is preparing to enter the territory of Ukraine at 21:00.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502312603120553997

Turkiye moving its embassy in Ukraine from Kyiv to Chernivtsi city

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502318600442548232


----------



## Baghial

“Putin’s invasion of Ukraine has primarily succeeded in materializing his worst fears: a unified West, a more militarized Europe, and a stronger, more attractive NATO.”. Putin Is Creating the NATO He Feared

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502319419032285191

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502319684368142338


----------



## Baghial

AND AGAIN THE UKRAINE FARMERS BRIDGRADE IN ACTION,

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502319110201516038

Utter incompetence and corruption from Russian military and intelligence. You always plan to the worst case scenario.

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## Baghial

AND A RUSSIAN SECRET SUBMARINE IN UKRANIAN WATERS?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502074438409498631


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502323685859991556


----------



## kingQamaR

beijingwalker said:


> A few missiles in Russia, Russian public sentiment and opinions on this war will no longer be divided, what a smart move. Russia might want to shoot some missiles to Russia themselves now, better killing some Russian civilians too. So dumb.



The Russians are so used to lying to everyone, including themselves, that they simply lied themselves into an unprecedented slaughter.

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## Baghial

Galen Watson

@galencwatson

Third Russian general 'killed' in #Ukraine in eight days: Major General Andrei Kolesnikov of the 29th Combined Arms Army is Russia's latest high profile casualty His death follows Major General Vitaly Gerasimov and Major General Andrei Sukhovetsky
https://t.co/kjXXJLfPHh

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502324255077421056


----------



## LeGenD

@Microsoft

I had to remove your previous post due to baseless accusations - I was flabbergasted. There is no rocket science in my previous post. If you see agenda in it then your mentality is in question. *Nobody* here is a fan of Ukrainian Azov Brigade.

Ukrainian Azov Brigade is very small in size:

_The Azov Battalion is a far-right all-volunteer infantry military unit that allegedly supports white supremacist ideologies, and has also been involved in training civilians to fight against invading troops. They first fought alongside Ukrainian soldiers against pro-separatist troops in 2014, and have since been embedded in the military.

*However, as per Al Jazeera, it only has 900 members,* *so it's still considered a fringe element in the army. *It was founded eight years ago by Andriy Biletsky from the ultra-nationalist Patriot of Ukraine gang and the neo-Nazi Social National Assembly group; both groups were accused of engaging in neo-Nazi ideals, and the latter is known to have attacked minority groups in Ukraine._









Ukraine: Inside The Neo-Nazi Azov Battalion


A far-right 'neo-Nazi' battalion has joined Ukrainian troops in their fight against invading Russian forces.




www.unilad.co.uk





_The unit received backing from Ukraine’s interior minister in 2014, as the government had recognised its own military was too weak to fight off the pro-Russian separatists and relied on paramilitary volunteer forces.

These forces were privately funded by oligarchs – the most known being Igor Kolomoisky, an energy magnate billionaire and then-governor of the Dnipropetrovska region.

In addition to Azov, Kolomoisky funded other volunteer battalions such as the Dnipro 1 and Dnipro 2, Aidar and Donbas units.

Azov received early funding and assistance from another oligarch: Serhiy Taruta, the billionaire governor of Donetsk region._









Profile: Who are Ukraine’s far-right Azov regiment?


The far-right neo-Nazi group has expanded to be part of Ukraine’s armed forces, a street militia and a political party.




www.aljazeera.com





- a fringe element.

Ukrainian Azov Brigade is involved in training Ukrainian civilians how to fight Russian forces. Russians cannot take this matter lightly of-course; Putin administration has overblown Ukrainian neo-Nazi theme in its narrative to justify invasion of Ukraine by extension. But is this sufficient grounds to invade a country? Who destroys an entire country for an extremist group or two? Should India be allowed to invade and destroy Pakistan because of TLP or another extremist group? Get my drift now?

Ukrainian Azov Brigade has local footprint - nothing suggests that it is involved in overseas conflicts or worse. You might want to dig into activities of Russian Wagner Group on the other hand (if morality is your greatest concern). This matter was brought up in this thread before and I posted a spine-chilling account of how Russian Wagner members treated their subjects in Syria. You have no idea.

Talk about selective morality.

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## Baghial

RUSSIAN SITTING DUCKS,
HUNTING SEASON 2022..



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501913108633337856
Javelins. MOAR Javelins!


----------



## Baghial

Boxer1122 said:


> Russia is changing tactics. More focus is headed towards the South / East and the 40 mile column will be dispersed. It wasn't 'ALL' meant for Kiev. They'll try to cut the land routes from Dniper river all the way back to Russia.
> 
> More Russian air assaults to start as well as efforts for amphibious and land assault on Odessa, moving towards Poland.

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## Boxer1122

Baghial said:


> View attachment 823188




Not sure if I understood the purpose of your images, I've seen all these....?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502328144463859717

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## Boxer1122

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502328144463859717



I thought Zilinsky said his forces had replenished their arsenals primarily by capturing Russian equipment? That would mean they have a ton of Russian equipment being used against the Russians...


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502144627440173060

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502243166006689804

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## kingQamaR

TNT said:


> Ok russia will loose and murica will win and then u can dance. Why are u posting similar stuff in each and every page? If u have some new stuff to share then do it, why are u cheerleading nonstop and trying to convince urself that ukrain is winning?
> Do the mods not call this trolling?
> I doubt if ull ever be that much cheerleading for Pakistan if it comes to it. I am making a list of western cheerleaders here and next time Pakistan have issues with the west, i will be monitoring these cheerleaders, but am certain most are loyal murican servants.



If you can not see what’s wrong with a country invading another country then I can not help you here mate. And I do Hope Pakistanis will fight hard like Ukrainians to defend there own country when the times comes. And of course if it’s Putins or west who invade us we should not fight back because it’s for the greater good for mankind these powers invading others. No cheers, only supporting Ukraine defending itself against a tyrant and its army’s trying to wipe them off from history.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Mass graves in Mariupol



Spoiler





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502018926116581383

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## Boxer1122

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502309515743666177



I have a feeling the US might get involved here and also help EU impose a no-fly zone....


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502243166006689804




Comedian. They're being bombarded and their people are thrown into mass graves, and then we have these lame calls. They need to be realistic. Russian army and its affiliated militia groups are making a gradual progress in the North, east, and south of Ukraine.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Assad got himself in alot of problems as the US won't let this one slide

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502328336235868163

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502326346332131329


----------



## dbc

maverick1977 said:


> since conventional warfare is stalling, tactical nukes might become a new thing in battlefields



Nope, a non starter for crazy Ivan. China is treaty bound to retaliate against any nuclear threat or attack against Ukraine.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502310828057534465

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## Sharma Ji

dbc said:


> China is treaty bound to retaliate against any nuclear threat or attack against Ukraine.


eh ?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502338386509668358

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## dbc

Sharma Ji said:


> eh ?



https://www.wsj.com/articles/under-new-scrutiny-chinas-nuclear-pledge-to-ukraine-11647007200

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502298139570626565

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## Flight of falcon

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502305232210046980
> Russian command and control is absolute dogs**t




Seems like Russian officers are leading and fighting from the front. Respect. 

Where are the Ukrainian generals ??? Never mind found them:

Hiding in the bunkers and doing press conferences and begging NATO for help.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Ukrainians abandoning their tanks in the East, collected by the Donetsk People's Republic and Lugansk People's Republic (_DNR_ and LNR) forces. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502334719366684675

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502339193028190212

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## dBSPL

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502144627440173060



That account's most famous intelligence report:

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502317757358084107

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## Mujahid Memon

sur said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501957499448180745


Imagine something like this happened in Pakistan...

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## LeGenD

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Mass graves in Mariupol
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502018926116581383





Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Comedian. They're being bombarded and their people are thrown into mass graves, and then we have these lame calls. They need to be realistic. Russian army and its affiliated militia groups are making a gradual progress in the North, east, and south of Ukraine.
> 
> View attachment 823193



Dear Hassan,

Many Ukrainians are brave and willing to fight invading forces no matter the odds. Mykolaiv governor Vitaly Kim's statement might be aimed to galvanize and motivate local fighters for the needful.

Russians might wipe them out of-course but Kim's followers will go down fighting. This is the story of local unsung heroes.

@RescueRanger

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The remaining Ukrainian planes getting taken out.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502317174110797827


LeGenD said:


> Dear Hassan,
> 
> Many Ukrainians are brave and willing to fight invading forces no matter the odds. Mykolaiv governor Vitaly Kim's statement might be aimed to galvanize and motivate local fighters for the needful.
> 
> Russians might wipe them out of-course but Kim's followers will go down fighting. This is the story of local unsung heroes.
> 
> @RescueRanger




I would've sympathized with them had they treated their fellow Ukrainians in the East (DNR and LNR) decently and humanely - and had they stayed clear from Russia - West "big power" competition. They're being sacrificed for the West's goals of destabilizing Russia. Ukraine didn't belong in this competition, but sadly having a comedian president who most likely loves Israel more than Ukraine is what led them to this tragedy.

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## zartosht

I wonder if Iran will join Russia in teaching turkey a lesson? Im sure the Russians are keeping tabs, and will be giving some new toys to the PKK.. But im not sure if Iran would follow. Since it has a strict "no pissing in your own pool" policy when it comes to neighbour instability. time will tell, But the Turks are crossing lines.

Regardless though, Turkey should expect some nasty surprised going forward... Especially their illegal occupying troops/terrorists in northern syria. Russia has alot of tools in its hands to make the turks bleed. Maybe Erdogan might get on his knees again and apologize again publicly?

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## LeGenD

Mujahid Memon said:


> Imagine something like this happened in Pakistan...


Related:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Not Photoshop, and there is no use of images unrelated to the news. A real video totally on the topic. But With Russian flag. If you have to resort to taking Syrians from the SAA to fight for you in Ukraine...then your army has problems. The Syrians have manpower problems and he accepted to...



defence.pk


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502345108733186053

Russian losses now visually confirmed at 1100

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## Mujahid Memon

1000 pages milestone reached

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## Baghial

Boxer1122 said:


> Not sure if I understood the purpose of your images, I've seen all these....?





Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Assad got himself in alot of problems as the US won't let this one slide
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502328336235868163





SOME SYRIAN CANNON FODDER FOR PUTIN BY ASSAD!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502243888416890880

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## Boxer1122

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502326346332131329



My understanding is they are just 9 miles out of the city center........ this guy's saying 90 minutes out that's probably like 40-45 miles out? Do you know?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502280830835740673

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## Boxer1122

Baghial said:


> SOME SYRIAN CANNON FODDER FOR PUTIN BY ASSAD!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502243888416890880



The stakes for Russia have become VERY high. Even though it's bombarding Ukraine without discretion, the reality is, they might lose the Russian federation this time if they don't fix stuff. Economically, Russia will be bankrupted in the next few months to a year or so. They will start to miss payments on their debt soon and military wise, hundreds of Russian equipment is going to be destroyed (a lot already has been) and that's going to be many billions lost, and not to mention, inability to do business with majority of the globe.

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## ZeEa5KPul

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502280830835740673


He can team up with the Ghost of Kiev.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Russian forces have fully encircled Kiev and been focusing on clearing all of the nearby towns and regions.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502201353023770624

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## Baghial

Boxer1122 said:


> The stakes for Russia have become VERY high. Even though it's bombarding Ukraine without discretion, the reality is, they might lose the Russian federation this time if they don't fix stuff. Economically, Russia will be bankrupted in the next few months to a year or so. They will start to miss payments on their debt soon and military wise, hundreds of Russian equipment is going to be destroyed (a lot already has been) and that's going to be many billions lost, and not to mention, inability to do business with majority of the globe.

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Russian forces have fully encircled Kiev and been focusing on clearing all of the nearby towns and regions.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502201353023770624




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502329482966880265
100% false. Stop peddling lies. Kiev is not even close to being encircled.

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## Boxer1122

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Russian forces have fully encircled Kiev and been focusing on clearing all of the nearby towns and regions.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502201353023770624



Why did Putin not think through once that the NATO / West he's about to go threaten, would respond to cripple him financially and militarily?
Secondly, why did he not think about his soldier to Ukraine's soldier ration (with 150K Russian attacking military, it's almost 1:1). You DON'T win anything with an equal ratio with an adversary and if you can't produce 2:1 or 3:1, you shouldn't venture into destroying yourself and another country. Effing stupid!



Baghial said:


> View attachment 823232




Myria was detroyed in a Russian attack. This might be a reuse of a call sign. Seems like NATO equipment coming?

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## Zibago




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## Boxer1122

ZeEa5KPul said:


> He can team up with the Ghost of Kiev.



You know there is no such thing right? It's a myth created to inspire others....

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## Baghial

Boxer1122 said:


> My understanding is they are just 9 miles out of the city center........ this guy's saying 90 minutes out that's probably like 40-45 miles out? Do you know?






bring it on IVAN..............



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498372873987186689


----------



## Boxer1122

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502329482966880265
> 100% false. Stop peddling lies. Kiev is not even close to being encircled.



Bro, that map in yellow in your message, is outdated. Get an updated one. Russia is about to attack Kiev big times. Their artillery is within 11 miles now and being put into firing positions as shown by Maxar Sats.


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## Baghial

Baghial said:


> bring it on IVAN..............
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498372873987186689





THE GUY WITH RPG,,,,,,,,,,,,, fckng awesome bassissist..


----------



## F-22Raptor

Boxer1122 said:


> Bro, that map in yellow in your message, is outdated. Get an updated one. Russia is about to attack Kiev big times. Their artillery is within 11 miles now and being put into firing positions as shown by Maxar Sats.



Its not outdated at all. And no, Russia is not close to encircling Kiev. Once again, stop peddling lies.


----------



## dBSPL

zartosht said:


> I wonder if Iran will join Russia in teaching turkey a lesson? Im sure the Russians are keeping tabs, and will be giving some new toys to the PKK.. But im not sure if Iran would follow. Since it has a strict "no pissing in your own pool" policy when it comes to neighbour instability. time will tell, But the Turks are crossing lines.
> 
> Regardless though, Turkey should expect some nasty surprised going forward... Especially their illegal occupying troops/terrorists in northern syria. Russia has alot of tools in its hands to make the turks bleed. Maybe Erdogan might get on his knees again and apologize again publicly?


Again? Ahaha... That much wank is not good. Also, these people, who are more tsarist than tsar's himself, always make me laugh.

Technically, Turkey is at least as neutral as Iran is. We refuse to participate in any form of sanctions. (We also opposed the embargoes against Iran as best we could, and in some cases, we created bilateral private commercial channels) We closed the Black Sea to NATO ships, Although we are NATO member. We refuse to close our airspace to Russia. Russia has tens of billions of dollars worth of fixed investments in Turkey. All of them continue to be supported by the state. We continue to buy and market Russian gas.

In fact, Turkey has so far been the only country that has brought two countries together in a meeting. Turkey's efforts are appreciated by both sides. Although some losers in a corner are sad about it...

If Russia defends the legitimacy of the invasion of Ukraine, on what grounds can it defend the unlawfulness of the Turkish buffer zone? Moreover, we do not claim sovereignty over these lands, while Russia is annexing the regions one by one. Even in Syria, all underground resources were confiscated for 50 years thanks to the puppet regime. Some parts of Tartus is unofficial Russian land.

Russia has been giving weapons to the PKK for 40 years. Pkk/kck have offices in Moscow. And currently, tel rifat and manbij are under the auspices of Russia. PKK shot down the Turkish helicopter with Russian-sold MANPADS. Which of these did we retaliate for, we did not close the dialogue channel even when 32 of our soldiers were killed by a cowardly attack by a Russian bomber.

There are no Turkish soldiers in Ukraine. There are no Turkish weapons in Ukraine, also. Ukraine is a solution partner to Turkey in some critical areas and in return, TR provides some UAV technologies to them. Thats all. If Russia want some asistance, Turkish companies could also bring some offers to them.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

zartosht said:


> I wonder if Iran will join Russia in teaching turkey a lesson?


Lmao. That is cute if you think Russia will attack Turkey that is one of the nuclear sharing countries with NATO and has the right to use and hosts them.. You will be disappointed but regardless Iran may not reach 2024 and all that hangs on them refusing to sign the nuclear deal which is hijacked.. NATO and US will react militarily here if the deal falls apart which it will most likely they will have no other option... Hold your horses as the cavalry may come in via Turkey or as a matter from every direction

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502352399595446276

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## Boxer1122

F-22Raptor said:


> Its not outdated at all. And no, Russia is not close to encircling Kiev. Once again, stop peddling lies.



I am pro-Ukraine genius! It was 10 miles per the following credible sources. Today's been more advances. No matter how much we love Ukraine, the sad part is, the sheer size of Russian land forces, backed by rocket forces and now air assault is hard to deal with. Just a sad fact.









Russia's invasion of Ukraine mapped - what happened on day 12


More talk of humanitarian corridors coincides with lethal air strikes and Ukrainian counter-attacks.




news.sky.com













Russian forces move within 9 miles of Kyiv's city center: Pentagon Ukraine update


Russian forces have moved within 9 miles of Kyiv's city center, the Pentagon said Thursday.




abcnews.go.com

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502280830835740673


Is there no more fighting in Syria? Seems like it is a forgotten war after 10 years of mayhem

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## F-22Raptor

Boxer1122 said:


> I am pro-Ukraine genius! It was 10 miles per the following credible sources. Today's been more advances. No matter how much we love Ukraine, the sad part is, the sheer size of Russian land forces, backed by rocket forces and now air assault is hard to deal with. Just a sad fact.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia's invasion of Ukraine mapped - what happened on day 12
> 
> 
> More talk of humanitarian corridors coincides with lethal air strikes and Ukrainian counter-attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.sky.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian forces move within 9 miles of Kyiv's city center: Pentagon Ukraine update
> 
> 
> Russian forces have moved within 9 miles of Kyiv's city center, the Pentagon said Thursday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abcnews.go.com




I don't think you understand what encircle means. The Russians only have one main axis on Kiev right now, the northwest. The North to Chernihiv axis is nonexistent. Russian forces to the east of Kiev are small currently.
The South of Kiev is wide open. Kiev is a massive city. It will take 200K combat troops to take and control Kiev, forces that Russia doesn't have.

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## Baghial

Can you imagine being the one to report this to putin? - There are reports of Ukrainian farmers stealing and operating our tanks. - Wait, what? How?! - They find manuals on Google......


At the end of the conversation: Q - did you serve in tank troops? A - No Q - How do you even know how to start a tank? A - Google



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502330101127593989

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## Wood

By the end of all this, any Ukranian we run into would be able to fire an ATGM


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## dBSPL

Baghial said:


> Can you imagine being the one to report this to putin? - There are reports of Ukrainian farmers stealing and operating our tanks. - Wait, what? How?! - They find manuals on Google......
> 
> 
> At the end of the conversation: Q - did you serve in tank troops? A - No Q - How do you even know how to start a tank? A - Google
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502330101127593989


Russia is currently the most important supplier of the Ukrainian army.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502358027978088452


----------



## dBSPL

The Russian civil aviation agency announced that they will contact Turkey and India for the supply of parts *due to China's refusal to supply aircraft parts to Russia*.

Turkey is one of Russia's sincere friends. We are one of the very few countries that try to warn Russia at the presidential level against this damn trap.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Bennet is one weird guy. He told Zelensky to surrender flatout. Dude Russia seeks the territory to create novorossiya and push out the Ukrainian ethnics. It is like telling the British to surrender to the germans back in 1939









Ukrainian defense official: We appreciate Bennett’s mediation


Lubkivskyi was positive about Jerusalem and showed understanding of its delicate situation with Moscow, which is the dominant force over Israel’s northern border with Syria.




www.jpost.com

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## Gripen9

Madni Bappa said:


> Damn Ukies trying really really hard to get NATO involved.
> 
> Hope Russia makes a copy or passes them Javelins onto China so we can get out hands on some top attack fire and forget systems.


I believe China already had a version similar to Javelins -- HJ-12




__





HJ-12 Anti-Tank Guided Missile | Military-Today.com


The HJ-12 is a new Chinese anti-tank guided missile. It is a fire-and-forget type weapon, which is extremely similar to a US FGM-148 Javelin. It is one of the most advanced man-portable anti-tank guide missile system in the world today.



www.military-today.com

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502321763614613511
a) Both US and EU remove MFN status for Russia
b) More goods from Russia under sanctions
c) More Oligarchs under sanctioned list

More sanctions to come..

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502360311126540293


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## Muhammed45

Vergennes said:


> T90 captured by the Ukrainians
> 
> View attachment 820723


That's not a T90

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## PakAlp

The amount of military equipment lost by Russia is alarming. Ukraine is certainly not a walk in the park. Kiev is a few days away from being surrounded from North East and West

Source NewYorktimes and Sky news

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## Muhammed45

PakAlp said:


> The amount of military equipment lost by Russia is alarming. Ukraine is certainly not a walk in the park.


Russian army is too regular and Classic. They cannot Manage Urban warfare. The only way left for them is bombing the hell out of Ukrainian cities. USA successfuly turned it into a trap for Russians. 

Moreover Russian army wasn't good at AI/autonomous warfare. 

Still they hold a considerable portion of Ukrainian territories. So they can encircle Kiev.

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## Baghial

What might a Russian encirclement of Kyiv look like?​

First, the Russians need to physically cut the city off on the ground. This will be an enormous undertaking.

The Russians will need to create (at least) a 90km-long cordon around the city. In normal military operations, a battalion-sized organisation (what the Russians call a battalion tactical groups, or BTG) occupies a "frontage" of about 1-2 kilometres.

Surrounding Kyiv will require a large military force — around 40-50 BTGs. This is about half of Russia's overall combat power. 

They will need to cut the city off to prevent defenders and others from leaving. This will be the mission of the "inner cordon" of the Russian encirclement. The Russians will also need an "outer cordon" to prevent supplies and reinforcements getting into Kyiv. The magnitude of Russian forces required to do this means it probably isn't viable given the other requirements for combat units in the east and south.

The Russians might therefore opt for a looser cordon around Kyiv. But this would allow the Ukrainians to resupply the defenders, prolonging any siege and providing reinforcements to defend the city in the event of a Russian assault.

'Shaping operations'​At the same time the Russians will seek to cut off power to Kyiv. This will have a major impact on civilian morale. It also prevents long-term storage of perishable food. 

The Russians will also attempt to destroy communications networks. This breaks down the coordination of defenders. It would also thwart their attempts to communicate with outside military forces to coordinate resupply and reinforcements.
Importantly, if the Russians destroy communications networks in Kyiv, they will stop the Ukrainian President talking to, and rallying, his people. 

All of these manoeuvres are what are called "shaping operations". They are Russian activities that are required to provide a foundation for any subsequent attack on the city. 

What might a Russian assault on Kyiv look like?​In short, dreadful. A Russian attack on Kyiv would seek to capture the city (and the President). Russians may not seek to hold the entire urban area. They may instead opt to only seize key nodes and portions of the city where Ukrainian politicians, government officials and the military are located.


But in undertaking a nodal approach, large segments of the city will remain in Ukrainian hands. These become urban bastions to provide logistical support from which attacks on the Russians can continue over time.

​


The size of Kyiv (840 square kilometres) will have a significant impact on attackers and defenders. Kyiv has tall buildings and a grid of roads both wide and narrow. Because of this, neither side will be able to concentrate large numbers of troops at any place and time. It will be a battle of thousands of small military teams against each other at very close quarters. Every building is a potential bunker, every road a potential ambush zone. 

There are also extensive underground tunnels and spaces. The Ukrainian defenders, who have out-thought and out-fought the Russians in most tactical engagements, will be able use these to great effect.

Subways and other tunnels can become safe manoeuvre corridors which the Ukrainians can use to disappear in one place and reappear in others. They can also be employed as reliable logistic supply lines and shelters for civilians.

Two critical decisions​As witnessed in Mariupol and Kharkiv, the Russians will use massed firepower in any assault on Kyiv. There will be widespread destruction and deaths of civilians. The Russians are likely to use a combination of artillery, rockets and airdropped bombs (including cluster munitions), as well as their hugely destructive thermobaric weapons.

At some point in the defence of Kyiv, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy will have two critical decisions to make. First, how long is his presence in the city viable and when should he leave? It is unlikely his country will gain by him becoming a martyr. He may need to leave and continue leading the fight. 
Second, how long should the Ukrainian military continue to defend the city? While it is the capital, with significant political value to both sides, there may be more value at some point in the Ukrainian military focusing on its self-preservation if it becomes obvious the city may fall. Neither of these are simple decisions.

There is a final risk of an attack on Kyiv. The Russians may finally conduct the kind of atrocity that forces NATO or the United States to intervene. This is not a certainty.


However, the Russians appear to have now reverted to a more brutal form of military operations which will result in large numbers of civilian casualties. The risk of further escalation in the war cannot be discounted.


----------



## Wood

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Bennet is one weird guy. He told Zelensky to surrender flatout. Dude Russia seeks the territory to create novorossiya and push out the Ukrainian ethnics. It is like telling the British to surrender to the germans back in 1939
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian defense official: We appreciate Bennett’s mediation
> 
> 
> Lubkivskyi was positive about Jerusalem and showed understanding of its delicate situation with Moscow, which is the dominant force over Israel’s northern border with Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com


This is an interesting twist in geopolitics.

Saudi Arabia and UAE don't want to take Biden's call but they will talk to Putin. Israeli PM wants Ukraine to surrender to Putin. Seems like everyone in the middle east is switching stripes and are cozying up to Russia. While the Arabs can afford to be independent of the US, I'm surprised that the Israelis would go against the interest of their patrons in the west.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502364801523232768


----------



## jamal18

Long discussion of the conflict. Informative but not essential.


----------



## OldTwilight

Muhammed45 said:


> Russian army is too regular and Classic. They cannot Manage Urban warfare. The only way left for them is bombing the hell out of Ukrainian cities. USA successfuly turned it into a trap for Russians.
> 
> Moreover Russian army wasn't good at AI/autonomous warfare.
> 
> Still they hold a considerable portion of Ukrainian territories. So they can encircle Kiev.



Well , I think this is alarming for us , our army have same or even worst mentality than Russian generals and our armed forced is more antique ... 

this is like 1970s armor division against 2020s anti armor equipment ... 

Well , Russia need to order bath of uav and ucav from china , immediately ... 

side note : Russians are conspiring against us with Israelis , If It was me , I would teach them a lesson by blowing their assets in Latakia ...

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## Vergennes

Muhammed45 said:


> That's not a T90



That's definitely a T90A with shtora systems on the front.

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## Flight of falcon

Baghial said:


> What might a Russian encirclement of Kyiv look like?​
> 
> First, the Russians need to physically cut the city off on the ground. This will be an enormous undertaking.
> 
> The Russians will need to create (at least) a 90km-long cordon around the city. In normal military operations, a battalion-sized organisation (what the Russians call a battalion tactical groups, or BTG) occupies a "frontage" of about 1-2 kilometres.
> 
> Surrounding Kyiv will require a large military force — around 40-50 BTGs. This is about half of Russia's overall combat power.
> 
> They will need to cut the city off to prevent defenders and others from leaving. This will be the mission of the "inner cordon" of the Russian encirclement. The Russians will also need an "outer cordon" to prevent supplies and reinforcements getting into Kyiv. The magnitude of Russian forces required to do this means it probably isn't viable given the other requirements for combat units in the east and south.
> 
> The Russians might therefore opt for a looser cordon around Kyiv. But this would allow the Ukrainians to resupply the defenders, prolonging any siege and providing reinforcements to defend the city in the event of a Russian assault.
> 
> 'Shaping operations'​At the same time the Russians will seek to cut off power to Kyiv. This will have a major impact on civilian morale. It also prevents long-term storage of perishable food.
> 
> The Russians will also attempt to destroy communications networks. This breaks down the coordination of defenders. It would also thwart their attempts to communicate with outside military forces to coordinate resupply and reinforcements.
> Importantly, if the Russians destroy communications networks in Kyiv, they will stop the Ukrainian President talking to, and rallying, his people.
> 
> All of these manoeuvres are what are called "shaping operations". They are Russian activities that are required to provide a foundation for any subsequent attack on the city.
> 
> What might a Russian assault on Kyiv look like?​In short, dreadful. A Russian attack on Kyiv would seek to capture the city (and the President). Russians may not seek to hold the entire urban area. They may instead opt to only seize key nodes and portions of the city where Ukrainian politicians, government officials and the military are located.
> 
> 
> But in undertaking a nodal approach, large segments of the city will remain in Ukrainian hands. These become urban bastions to provide logistical support from which attacks on the Russians can continue over time.
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> The size of Kyiv (840 square kilometres) will have a significant impact on attackers and defenders. Kyiv has tall buildings and a grid of roads both wide and narrow. Because of this, neither side will be able to concentrate large numbers of troops at any place and time. It will be a battle of thousands of small military teams against each other at very close quarters. Every building is a potential bunker, every road a potential ambush zone.
> 
> There are also extensive underground tunnels and spaces. The Ukrainian defenders, who have out-thought and out-fought the Russians in most tactical engagements, will be able use these to great effect.
> 
> Subways and other tunnels can become safe manoeuvre corridors which the Ukrainians can use to disappear in one place and reappear in others. They can also be employed as reliable logistic supply lines and shelters for civilians.
> 
> Two critical decisions​As witnessed in Mariupol and Kharkiv, the Russians will use massed firepower in any assault on Kyiv. There will be widespread destruction and deaths of civilians. The Russians are likely to use a combination of artillery, rockets and airdropped bombs (including cluster munitions), as well as their hugely destructive thermobaric weapons.
> 
> At some point in the defence of Kyiv, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy will have two critical decisions to make. First, how long is his presence in the city viable and when should he leave? It is unlikely his country will gain by him becoming a martyr. He may need to leave and continue leading the fight.
> Second, how long should the Ukrainian military continue to defend the city? While it is the capital, with significant political value to both sides, there may be more value at some point in the Ukrainian military focusing on its self-preservation if it becomes obvious the city may fall. Neither of these are simple decisions.
> 
> There is a final risk of an attack on Kyiv. The Russians may finally conduct the kind of atrocity that forces NATO or the United States to intervene. This is not a certainty.
> 
> 
> However, the Russians appear to have now reverted to a more brutal form of military operations which will result in large numbers of civilian casualties. The risk of further escalation in the war cannot be discounted.




Good plan to legitimize Clown president and his generals to escape from Ukraine …..

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502000264944963589At the press conference after the tripartite summit in Antalya, Lavrov said that Russia's pressure on the Crimean Tatars "lies". But the could not answer Crimean Tatar journalist's question. 




Just 1 day later: Russian court sentenced Crimean Tatars Riza Izetov 19 years, Remzi Bekirov 19 years, Şaban Umerov 18 years, Rahim Ayvazov 17 years, Ferhat Bezzârov 15 years in prison . Their crimes is, not consenting to 1783 -1944 - 2014.

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## OldTwilight

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502321763614613511
> a) Both US and EU remove MFN status for Russia
> b) More goods from Russia under sanctions
> c) More Oligarchs under sanctioned list
> 
> More sanctions to come..



Why they don't sanction our thieves officials and their families just like Russians oligarchs

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## Flight of falcon

As long as the illegal Russian money was creating jobs and used to buy their expensive real eatate it was all good .

Now it’s not good because Russia invaded Ukraine . Talk about Uber hypocrisy …..

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## Baghial

Flight of falcon said:


> Good plan to legitimize Clown president and his generals to escape from Ukraine …..


 AT LEAST HE,S BETTER THEN OUR CLOWN!


----------



## sur

Scared of balanced coverage, embarrassed of their lies and propaganda getting exposed, so-called bearers of freedom are blocking RT.
YouTube just started blocking RT globally.
Here's a couple of options left to watch RT:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502338814056009731



sur said:


> How to access RT.com​
> If you can’t get news from RT due to government restrictions, here are some alternative ways to access our content
> 
> Serious attempts have been made in Western nations to silence RT, following Russia’s military offensive in Ukraine. The EU Commission has given regulators in the bloc’s nations powers to ban the media outlet. If you’ve faced difficulties accessing RT’s content due to those restrictions, here are some steps you can take to bypass them.
> 
> *1*. If you’re reading RT on your smartphone, you can *use our Android app*, which can be downloaded via this link.
> 
> *2*. On your PC, you can *use the Tor browser*, which can be downloaded here. RT’s website address in Tor remains the same: www.rt.com. If Tor doesn’t work for you, or is unavailable via regular means, you can resolve this issue by sending an empty email to gettor@torproject.com and you will be sent the necessary link.
> 
> *3*. Another way of circumventing restrictions is to *use the Psiphon censorship-bypass tool*, which can be downloaded for Windows, Android, and other systems. Alternatively, you can use a VPN service of your choice. (Windows download here, direct Android download here, and other options here).
> 
> *4*. You can also stay in touch with RT *through Telegram by subscribing* to RT’s soon-to-be-reborn channel there.

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## Wood

OldTwilight said:


> Why they don't sanction our thieves officials and their families just like Russians oligarchs


...you guys should invade an European country for that.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502372878569857028

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## dBSPL

Russia has started active work with Turkey for the supply of basic goods. (Sputnik)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502322011674230785The economic situation in Russia is getting difficult.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502329482966880265
> 100% false. Stop peddling lies. Kiev is not even close to being encircled.



TRT World, which is a reputable institution, has confirmed that "the Russian forces have encircled the city from different directions". You could wish they didn't, but it has been confirmed.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502201353023770624


----------



## RescueRanger

LeGenD said:


> Dear Hassan,
> 
> Many Ukrainians are brave and willing to fight invading forces no matter the odds. Mykolaiv governor Vitaly Kim's statement might be aimed to galvanize and motivate local fighters for the needful.
> 
> Russians might wipe them out of-course but Kim's followers will go down fighting. This is the story of local unsung heroes.
> 
> @RescueRanger


Brother thank you so much for tagging me in this. 

This is a travesty - yet an image we have become so accustom to in the last 22 year years that people don’t seem to fathom the incredible humanitarian, economy and long term mental cost of such images.

The Ukrainians are absolute heroes, every single on of them from infant to the elderly woman with osteoarthritis who throws rocks at passing Russian tanks. 

And as you have correctly summarised that some observers and experts believe that the Russians will eventually break the defences - but not before these brave men and women dispatch a good number Russian forces into hell.

I have a tremendous respect for the fortitude and tenacity of the Ukrainians and pray every night for their success and survival.

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## Meengla

OldTwilight said:


> Well , I think this is alarming for us , our army have same or even worst mentality than Russian generals and our armed forced is more antique ...
> 
> this is like 1970s armor division against 2020s anti armor equipment ...
> 
> Well , Russia need to order bath of uav and ucav from china , immediately ...
> 
> side note : Russians are conspiring against us with Israelis , If It was me , I would teach them a lesson by blowing their assets in Latakia ...



Russia missed a chance to bleed America in Afghanistan for 20 years. Yes, there was supposed to be some support given to the Taliban but, being a regional power, a LOT more could have been done by Russia to hurt America in Afghanistan. Also, i*f Russia decides to make the war too forbidding for the West even right now, it could arm various anti-Israel forces with lethality never seen before. It will be a regional war but it will end one way or another soon because Israel's American backers wouldn't put up with blood spilling in Israel.*

Having said this... observing something is not the same as wishing something. I'd rather this war be over asap.

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## Boxer1122

F-22Raptor said:


> I don't think you understand what encircle means. The Russians only have one main axis on Kiev right now, the northwest. The North to Chernihiv axis is nonexistent. Russian forces to the east of Kiev are small currently.
> The South of Kiev is wide open. Kiev is a massive city. It will take 200K combat troops to take and control Kiev, forces that Russia doesn't have.



3 sides, Northwest, East and Northeast. Check the compass again on the right map. Secondly, who told you they were coming in to take over the city? I think they've learned their lesson on urban warfare. At this time, the Russia military is now acting like old school USSR military, in other words, encircle, demolish and force surrender, or, level it. There is no limits to how barbaric this would gets when the generals behind this land at this last strategy. At this point, Russia is now fighting for it's own federation's survival so no care for anything else.

The US needed to impose a no fly zone with EU. That was the only hope left.

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## zartosht

dBSPL said:


> Again? Ahaha... That much wank is not good. Also, these people, who are more tsarist than tsar's himself, always make me laugh.
> 
> Technically, Turkey is at least as neutral as Iran is. We refuse to participate in any form of sanctions. (We also opposed the embargoes against Iran as best we could, and in some cases, we created bilateral private commercial channels) We closed the Black Sea to NATO ships, Although we are NATO member. We refuse to close our airspace to Russia. Russia has tens of billions of dollars worth of fixed investments in Turkey. All of them continue to be supported by the state. We continue to buy and market Russian gas.
> 
> In fact, Turkey has so far been the only country that has brought two countries together in a meeting. Turkey's efforts are appreciated by both sides. Although some losers in a corner are sad about it...
> 
> If Russia defends the legitimacy of the invasion of Ukraine, on what grounds can it defend the unlawfulness of the Turkish buffer zone? Moreover, we do not claim sovereignty over these lands, while Russia is annexing the regions one by one. Even in Syria, all underground resources were confiscated for 50 years thanks to the puppet regime. Some parts of Tartus is unofficial Russian land.
> 
> Russia has been giving weapons to the PKK for 40 years. Pkk/kck have offices in Moscow. And currently, tel rifat and manbij are under the auspices of Russia. PKK shot down the Turkish helicopter with Russian-sold MANPADS. Which of these did we retaliate for, we did not close the dialogue channel even when 32 of our soldiers were killed by a cowardly attack by a Russian bomber.
> 
> There are no Turkish soldiers in Ukraine. There are no Turkish weapons in Ukraine, also. Ukraine is a solution partner to Turkey in some critical areas and in return, TR provides some UAV technologies to them. Thats all. If Russia want some asistance, Turkish companies could also bring some offers to them.



post-cold war there was an unwritten agreement that Russia and the NATO would not directly arm an adversary during a hot war.

NATO did not openly supply the chechens
NATO did not openly supply georgia

Russia never openly supplied the taliban or any afghan insurgent group.
Russia never openly or ever supply anybody in iraq,
Russia never openly supplied serbia
Russia never openly supplied weapons to any nato military adventure.

This line was crossed in this war.

There are weaponry that are killing Russians that have unquestionable places of origin. Such as the NLAW and the bayraktar (even though we only see a video every 1-2 days. Suggesting they are being shot down en masse, with the exception of a few here and there)

This is a line that has been crossed. and you would be an utter fool to think that Russia will not be returning the favor at the earliest opportunity. ABSOLUTE FOOL. lines have been crossed, and certain gloves have come off. And its all thanks to Aggresive NATO, we all will live in a much more dangerous world. Perhaps a Russian-Iranian plan to slaughter the turks out of northern Syria while simultaneously threatning to dismember the turkish state by using the kurds would cause alot of underwear stains in turkey...

Imagine the kurds of occupied western kurdistan getting unlimited Iranian-russian support... goood luck

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## Hassan Al-Somal

https://sputniknews.com/20220311/nationalists-blew-up-institute-building-in-kharkov-to-hide-nuclear-research-russian-mod-says-1093784030.html

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Wood said:


> This is an interesting twist in geopolitics.
> 
> Saudi Arabia and UAE don't want to take Biden's call but they will talk to Putin. Israeli PM wants Ukraine to surrender to Putin. Seems like everyone in the middle east is switching stripes and are cozying up to Russia. While the Arabs can afford to be independent of the US, I'm surprised that the Israelis would go against the interest of their patrons in the west.



They are not switicing sides but they just want some concessions and to emerge from this with better ties as ties between GULF-Israel and the US has deteroriated compared to Trump-Obama-Bush eras. Hence they want to emerge from this with better ties but they need some minor concessions in some areas they deem beneficial to themselves

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502374274748850181

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502377724521893893


----------



## Shakuni Mama

dBSPL said:


> The Russian civil aviation agency announced that they will contact Turkey and India for the supply of parts *due to China's refusal to supply aircraft parts to Russia*.



Any credible link to support your claim ?


----------



## Madni Bappa

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502352399595446276


Let's go. Brandon.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502380888864301064


----------



## Madni Bappa

Baghial said:


> Can you imagine being the one to report this to putin? - There are reports of Ukrainian farmers stealing and operating our tanks. - Wait, what? How?! - They find manuals on Google......
> 
> 
> At the end of the conversation: Q - did you serve in tank troops? A - No Q - How do you even know how to start a tank? A - Google
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502330101127593989


Looks like Oplot


----------



## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502374274748850181




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502374993551839234

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## Madni Bappa

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Bennet is one weird guy. He told Zelensky to surrender flatout. Dude Russia seeks the territory to create novorossiya and push out the Ukrainian ethnics. It is like telling the British to surrender to the germans back in 1939
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian defense official: We appreciate Bennett’s mediation
> 
> 
> Lubkivskyi was positive about Jerusalem and showed understanding of its delicate situation with Moscow, which is the dominant force over Israel’s northern border with Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com


He's essentially saying kaka chup kar k Tel Aviv wapas a ja.


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Mariupol turns out to be a formidable fortress 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502242278286499841


----------



## WinterFangs

Ukrainians holding up very well, I thought kyiv would’ve been taken in a week. Ukrainians and afghans are totally different, one putting a hell of a resistance, the other runs to foreign countries and cries on Twitter.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502382404459241473


----------



## Madni Bappa

Muhammed45 said:


> That's not a T90


Yea looks like T72

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## Hassan Al-Somal

zartosht said:


> I wonder if Iran will join Russia in teaching turkey a lesson? Im sure the Russians are keeping tabs, and will be giving some new toys to the PKK.. But im not sure if Iran would follow. Since it has a strict "no pissing in your own pool" policy when it comes to neighbour instability. time will tell, But the Turks are crossing lines.
> 
> Regardless though, Turkey should expect some nasty surprised going forward... Especially their illegal occupying troops/terrorists in northern syria. Russia has alot of tools in its hands to make the turks bleed. Maybe Erdogan might get on his knees again and apologize again publicly?




Turkey is not sanctioning Russia, so Putin would be a fool if he tries to support the PKK. Besides, Turkey had huge investments in Ukraine, and the 2 countries were cooperating in many areas; so Turkey can still cooperate with Ukraine by selling drones while at the same time maintaining a relationship with the Kremlin.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502370184966901763

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## Madni Bappa

jamal18 said:


> Long discussion of the conflict. Informative but not essential.


Duran 😍😍

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## zartosht

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Turkey is not sanctioning Russia, so Putin would be a fool if he tries to support the PKK. Besides, Turkey had huge investments in Ukraine, and the 2 countries were cooperating in many areas; so Turkey can still cooperate with Ukraine by selling drones while at the same time maintaining a relationship with the Kremlin.



If you think Russia will just ignore the fact that Turkey is directly Arming a russian enemy in war time, and contributing to Russian deaths... 

if you think that? then we can agree to disagree..

there is no question in my mind that both turkish and nato troops will be paying full price + tax with blood for the actions of their countries in this war.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

zartosht said:


> If you think Russia will just ignore the fact that Turkey is directly Arming a russian enemy in war time, and contributing to Russian deaths...
> 
> if you think that? then we can agree to disagree..
> 
> there is no question in my mind that both turkish and nato troops will be paying full price + tax with blood for the actions of their countries in this war.



The TB2s where there before the Invasion.. Weapons are sold as means for business the Russians themselves understand this better then anyone else.

I just think you are frustrated at Iran's geopolitical situation. Which is basically under Putin now even the nuclear deal meaning the level of puppet'ness of Iran has no boundaries. The Assad held areas and the russian held regions within russia is the same really both are defacto areas ruled by putin with iron-fist meaning he can re-direct forces from both areas. Atleast Turkey and US held areas are independent from that kind of cuckhold mentality and from that carnage of servitude


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502386516181594118

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502386285297778688

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## Madni Bappa

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Mariupol turns out to be a formidable fortress
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502242278286499841


Same Assad line of propaganda??


----------



## thetutle

dBSPL said:


> The Russian civil aviation agency announced that they will contact Turkey and India for the supply of parts *due to China's refusal to supply aircraft parts to Russia*.
> 
> Turkey is one of Russia's sincere friends. We are one of the very few countries that try to warn Russia at the presidential level against this damn trap.


If you supply them, the west might cut you off as well. Its a tough situation for turkey.

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## gambit

Given how many Russian colonels and generals were KIA-ed, am wondering if Poutine started and use a war to eliminate potential political rivals and prevent a coup. Am not sure whether to take this seriously instead of a joke or believe the Russian Army is truly this incompetent. Or worse -- both.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502350570434273281

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502374682112282638

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## Madni Bappa

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502374682112282638


Yar ye banda bawla ho gya hai kya?


----------



## thetutle

Wood said:


> This is an interesting twist in geopolitics.
> 
> Saudi Arabia and UAE don't want to take Biden's call but they will talk to Putin. Israeli PM wants Ukraine to surrender to Putin. Seems like everyone in the middle east is switching stripes and are cozying up to Russia. While the Arabs can afford to be independent of the US, I'm surprised that the Israelis would go against the interest of their patrons in the west.


This is interesting and I cant figure it out. Its hard to believe that Americans wold allow these dictators they installed in the gulf to run again them.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502386516181594118
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502386285297778688




Whoever left of the Neo Nazis (Azov) be saying now:


----------



## Type59

Gripen9 said:


> I believe China already had a version similar to Javelins -- HJ-12
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HJ-12 Anti-Tank Guided Missile | Military-Today.com
> 
> 
> The HJ-12 is a new Chinese anti-tank guided missile. It is a fire-and-forget type weapon, which is extremely similar to a US FGM-148 Javelin. It is one of the most advanced man-portable anti-tank guide missile system in the world today.
> 
> 
> 
> www.military-today.com


Iranians would appreciate samples. Hezbollah would benefit from system.


----------



## thetutle

Meengla said:


> Russia missed a chance to bleed America in Afghanistan for 20 years. Yes, there was supposed to be some support given to the Taliban but, being a regional power, a LOT more could have been done by Russia to hurt America in Afghanistan. Also, i*f Russia decides to make the war too forbidding for the West even right now, it could arm various anti-Israel forces with lethality never seen before. It will be a regional war but it will end one way or another soon because Israel's American backers wouldn't put up with blood spilling in Israel.*
> 
> Having said this... observing something is not the same as wishing something. I'd rather this war be over asap.


Russia would never in a million years arm people that seek to harm Israel.



Boxer1122 said:


> 3 sides, Northwest, East and Northeast. Check the compass again on the right map. Secondly, who told you they were coming in to take over the city? I think they've learned their lesson on urban warfare. At this time, the Russia military is now acting like old school USSR military, in other words, encircle, demolish and force surrender, or, level it. There is no limits to how barbaric this would gets when the generals behind this land at this last strategy. At this point, Russia is now fighting for it's own federation's survival so no care for anything else.
> 
> The US needed to impose a no fly zone with EU. That was the only hope left.


Why do Russians need to encircle a city in order to bomb it into rubble?


----------



## mmr

thetutle said:


> Russia would never in a million years arm people that seek to harm Israel.
> 
> 
> Why do Russians need to encircle a city in order to bomb it into rubble?


25 percent israeli citizens speak russian. They are originally from russia. 

Bond between israel and russia is very strong.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502293369078358024


----------



## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502374274748850181


Ouch but thats one launcher against 7 tanks. He exposed his position and is now dead. Heroic for sure but sad. You need coordinated fire from multiple locations in this situation.


----------



## khansaheeb

beijingwalker said:


> If Russia is not that weak as you depicted, Nato and US won't be such a chicken repeatedly making statement to assure Russia it won't militarily intervene.


They can directly intervene, but why not go in for the indirect conflict when the same goals can be achieved through half the costs and fraction of the losses? It's just military common sense learnt from decades of warfare.


----------



## kingQamaR

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Russian forces have fully encircled Kiev and been focusing on clearing all of the nearby towns and regions.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502201353023770624



They tried the "western" approach earlier in the war but they were getting scattered and conscripts aren't drilled enough, so they were getting mauled, now getting mauled and throwing everyone in the direction of enemy bullets is their tactic.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502391754942726144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502395084528144385


----------



## Tamerlane

A hardcore Anglo-Zionist newspaper, The Times (of London), leads its list of countries that don't follow Western policies by mentioning Imran Khan of Pakistan on top of the list. That's even though their bosom friend, Modi of India the Butcher of Gujrat, is not following their demand either.

Why are they so obsessed with Pakistan? Many reasons. For one thing, Pakistan may be economically weak, but is strong militarily. Second, Pakistan still has some credibility among Muslims. The West wouldn't want a Russia-China-Muslim alliance. Third, Pakistan is going to be the target of more sanctions, so they need to demonize it,


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502231959422054406

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## Ali_Baba

Putin 'has placed the head of the FSB's foreign intelligence branch under house arrest​








Putin places head of the FSB's foreign intelligence under house arrest


Also arrested is Anatoly Bolyukh, Beseda's deputy, according to respected author Andrey Soldatov, who said Putin is 'truly unhappy' with the agency - which he ran before becoming president.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## zartosht

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> The TB2s where there before the Invasion.. Weapons are sold as means for business the Russians themselves understand this better then anyone else.
> 
> I just think you are frustrated at Iran's geopolitical situation. Which is basically under Putin now even the nuclear deal meaning the level of puppet'ness of Iran has no boundaries. The Assad held areas and the russian held regions within russia is the same really both are defacto areas ruled by putin with iron-fist meaning he can re-direct forces from both areas. Atleast Turkey and US held areas are independent from that kind of cuckhold mentality and from that carnage of servitude



frustrated at Irans geopolitical situation? are you kidding? Iran hasnt been sitting this pretty since Nader Shahs time.... just as we secured our geopolitical sphere of foreign influence, ended our dependence on oil revenue, made a durable economy able to withstand any sanction the west can throw at it.

on top of that, were drowning in oil, prices are skyrocketing, and western leaders are tripping over themselves to re-sign the deal with Iran.

i think the butthurt is coming from you.. lots of leftover butthurt from you wahabi buddies in syria to iraq. with the combination of your Iranian username.... i think we all know where the butthurt is coming from..


----------



## Ali_Baba

Russia has lost enough armoured vehicles to equip the ENTIRE German army​








Ukraine: 'Inept' Russian tactics baffle military experts


The devastating artillery strikes came yesterday as Putin's troops inched closer to Kyiv. Military experts have said they are surprised by the tactics used by Moscow's armies.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## khansaheeb

Shakuni Mama said:


> Ukraine should have the means to strike few missiles at Russia. They are fighting in their backyard, though they are able to hit Ruskies there but the damage should have happen in Russia to make them understand what a war looks like. They should not be the one suffering alone in this war.


and risk the Russians taking off the gloves and bombing them into stone age?

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## Madni Bappa

sur said:


> بزرگوں کا مزاق نہیں اڑاتے
> 
> "Bazurgoon Ka Mazak Nahi Oraatay"
> = "don't make fun of elderly"

















Some entertainment for everybody.


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502347608068702212

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## beast89

RescueRanger said:


> That’s if you survive 😂







indeed, 

The contract is turning people away.

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## jamal18

Russian allied forces in the centre of Mariupul, and the city begins with a 'v', sorry can't pronounce it, has been captured. The belief is that this is the end for the Ukrainian army in the East, considered to be the most important part of the Ukrainian army.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502393913000316936


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502395625668759553

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## F-22Raptor

The Pentagon assessed today that Ukraine still has slightly more than 90% of its combat power.

And they are still training territorials and reservists. Manpower should continue to grow.

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## zartosht

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502391754942726144
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502395084528144385




It looks like a white blood cell devouring bacteria. Kind of a fitting analogy as well. 

On the ground the Russians are taking territory at will. Taking their time setting up their convoys in position in broad daylight.

in an alternate universe where all media except the western shitstream media is censored. The ukies are winning a glorious victory. just ignore the maps, The need to censor any opposition voices, zelensky's absolute desperation. 

just shut up and listen to your shitstream media narrative, or get cancelled. - free west

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

zartosht said:


> frustrated at Irans geopolitical situation? are you kidding? Iran hasnt been sitting this pretty since Nader Shahs time.... just as we secured our geopolitical sphere of foreign influence, ended our dependence on oil revenue, made a durable economy able to withstand any sanction the west can throw at it.
> 
> on top of that, were drowning in oil, prices are skyrocketing, and western leaders are tripping over themselves to re-sign the deal with Iran..



You are just a puppet everywhere and can't stand on your own feet nothing to be frustrated about. Nothing is called Wahhibs but you belong to them including your country and they will come to re-claim you eventually. you have no control of these areas but just a puppet.. The fictional wabbish claim Farsis and others to be their property forget country and to be part of the ummah outrunning that one will be extremely difficult.

You can outrun a man whos claiming your country but not a man whos claiming you and your ethnics as part of him 


Do you really think they gonna just allow the Farsis and other ethnics of Iran to just walk away from the sacred Ummah.. Just like the battle of ridda wars. The prophet prepared an army saying fight them until they agree to return to the fold by accepting to pay Zakat because they refused that.. It may sound clingy but it is what it is once you took that oath the sahada there is no turning back


----------



## RescueRanger

beast89 said:


> indeed,
> 
> The contract is turning people away.









*Tell me you've never packed for a ruck/tab without telling me you've never tabbed.* What TAF is up with at rucksack.  Too many destiny players treating real war like Xbox.

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## beast89

Flight of falcon said:


> Seems like Russian officers are leading and fighting from the front. Respect.
> 
> Where are the Ukrainian generals ??? Never mind found them:
> 
> Hiding in the bunkers and doing press conferences and begging NATO for help.


also talking crap about NATO who keep rejecting direct involvement


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502397603694141446


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## RescueRanger

From CivMilAir

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502403764787032070

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502403764787032070


Assuming this to be true, it seems like Russia will be trouble in a month from now

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## RescueRanger

Town of Moshchun, less than five miles north of Kyiv:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502374929114832896

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502403764787032070



Some don't realize that according to most accurate estimates Russia has lost up to 6.000 soldiers,if we apply a ratio of killed to wounded at 1 for 3 that's close to 20.000 soldiers wounded and put out of action,out of the ~200.000 soldiers mobilized,not even adding more than one thousand vehicles assessed as lost. (destroyed,captured,abandoned),that's huge.

Not even adding losses of the DPR and LNR. But "operation is going according to the plans".

Russians have been proved to hide ammunations and weapons in vehicles marked with the red cross.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502410518778241026
Just bomb them.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502408544301326336

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## maverick1977

Mujahid Memon said:


> Imagine something like this happened in Pakistan...




so US is setting the stage for US checmical and bio weapons on ukranians and will blame Russia ???

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502413096253538306

Former US Army General

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## Madni Bappa

maverick1977 said:


> so US is setting the stage for US checmical and bio weapons on ukranians and will blame Russia ???

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## LeGenD

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I would've sympathized with them had they treated their fellow Ukrainians in the East (DNR and LNR) decently and humanely - and had they stayed clear from Russia - West "big power" competition. They're being sacrificed for the West's goals of destabilizing Russia. Ukraine didn't belong in this competition, but sadly having a comedian president who most likely loves Israel more than Ukraine is what led them to this tragedy.



No country accepts a separatist movement by default. Russia did not accept Chechen separatist movement for example.

There were largely peaceful protests against Zelenskyy administration in Donbas but Russia was able to escalate this matter to a whole new level with its influence and intervention in said region in 2014. There is ample information in following sources:









Lessons from Russia's Operations in Ukraine


Russia's annexation of Crimea was a decisive use of military force toward political ends. But Russia benefited from favorable circumstances that make this hard to replicate. Moscow likely considers its campaign in Eastern Ukraine a strategic success but an unsuccessful operation.




www.rand.org













The Russian Statelets in the Donbas Are No “People’s Republics”


Vladimir Putin claims to be defending populations in the Donbas. In fact, the Kremlin-controlled statelets there are dominated by military rule and repression of organized labor — a troubling indicator of the future Putin has in store for neighboring regions.




jacobinmag.com





Donbas was certainly home to pro-Russian group(s) and figureheads but not in its entirety - numerous sectors of Donbas were stable and under control of Zelenskyy administration. Heroic resistance effort to Russian invasion in Mariupol casts doubt on Russian narrative for Donbas at large.

Zelenskyy administration might be guilty of some miscalculations but its legitimacy should not be in doubt - a large number of Ukrainians answered the call of Zelenskyy administration to fight Russians. NATO can supply arms to Ukrainians but Ukrainians should be willing to fight Russians as well (which is the case). Volodymyr Zelenskyy himself is in Kyiv and continues to motivate his followers to fight for the country in spite of attempts on his life - this is hallmark of being a true leader. Credit where due.

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## RescueRanger

Maxar captures artillery shelling by Russian Forces:

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502374274748850181

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## Ali_Baba

UKBengali said:


> Russians will be mainly relegated to high-altitude regime when the Ukrainians get supplies of the UK's StarStreak missile.
> 
> It flies at Mach 3+, max altitude of 5km and is very difficult to jam.
> 
> The war is just going to be more costly for both sides.



Given the lack of precision giuded munitions for Russia - they will be left with using Dumb bombs from high altitude - Russia is lucky that these systems will only be provided in the low hundreds - if that - so they will be centred around key locations that Ukraine needs to defend, C&C/ airfields/big cities etc..


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## F-22Raptor

Ali_Baba said:


> Given the lack of precision giuded munitions for Russia - they will be left with using Dumb bombs from high altitude - Russia is lucky that these systems will only be provided in the low hundreds - if that - so they will be centred around key locations that Ukraine needs to defend, C&C/ airfields/big cities etc..




I'm wondering how many more long range missiles Russia can fire into Ukraine without endangering its homeland defense posture. They've already fired over 800. I imagine they've used a significant portion of their stocks set aside for this invasion.


----------



## CrazyZ

Tamerlane said:


> A hardcore Anglo-Zionist newspaper, The Times (of London), leads its list of countries that don't follow Western policies by mentioning Imran Khan of Pakistan on top of the list. That's even though their bosom friend, Modi of India the Butcher of Gujrat, is not following their demand either.
> 
> Why are they so obsessed with Pakistan? Many reasons. For one thing, Pakistan may be economically weak, but is strong militarily. Second, Pakistan still has some credibility among Muslims. The West wouldn't want a Russia-China-Muslim alliance. Third, Pakistan is going to be the target of more sanctions, so they need to demonize it,
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502231959422054406


Hypocrisy and double standards on this issue are massive in the west. Pakistan did some critical things to help the west win CW1 but was not respected as a partner. Same reason why MBS won't take Biden phone call. India is in the Quad go bug them.

Pakistan has good relations with Ukraine. Pakistani's don't want to see Ukraine destroyed by war. That said.....Pakistan has too be neutral from a geopolitical perspective. Pakistan is focused on peace trade and development and won't be sucked into this conflict.

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## jhungary

SQ8 said:


> @gambit @jhungary just looking at the videos of Russian troops it seems that other than shooting rifles everything else is “no idea how this works so Im winging it”


Well, I am assuming you are referring to the Brovary Ambush. Yeah, that was really bad......I mean, if they are trained with armor assault or any type of training like that, they should know they should not run Armor up the MSR like that in tight column and without infantry support. 

First of all, I would avoid running my tank on MSR at all, you would not see me doing that unless there are no other way of approach (And even if you don't have other way of approach, you can make one, I means that's what that 125mm gun is for) Then if I have to travel on any MSR in my tank, I would travel in a single file, that way if your lead tank is hit and disabled, you can just drove around it. And I most certainly would have dismounted infantry support my tank when I traverse thru an MSR. 

That video, I don't know what's that. Honestly, I would expect the Ukrainian to do that, not the Russian.

Also, this is day 15, and Russia lost 2 other General, now it's up to 3 or 4 (I lost count, really) and the majority of the fight have not started yet, they have not attack Odessa, they have not attacked Kyiv and they have not attacked Dnipro yet, I mean, you are losing 3 or 4 general, about half a dozen Lt Col or Colonel and god knows how many soldier killed and captured for simply GETTING INTO POSITION OF ATTACK. You can already see how many Russia will lose during the main event. 

You think getting into Kyiv is tough? I am pretty sure the Ukrainian would make every Russian bleed if they try to fight street to street. I honestly see the only way Russia can do that is with Chemical Weapon. Even then, this is not Aleppo, they are not fighting a rebel army or ISIS, Ukrainian have Civil Defence Training and proper MOPP equipment, I am not going to see any change other than the wholesale massacre of civilian, which in turn only further inflame the Ukrainian...

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## khansaheeb

Stalled 40-mile 'death convoy' moving again as battle of Kyiv edges closer


The convoy has split up and fanned out into towns and forests near Kyiv, with artillery pieces raised into firing position.




metro.co.uk





Stalled 40-mile ‘death convoy’ moving again as battle of Kyiv edges closer​Comment



Faye BrownFriday 11 Mar 2022 10:28 am

64SHARES





The convoy has fanned out into towns and forests near Kyiv (Picture: EPA/MAXAR TECHNOLOGIES)
Russia is feared to be readying a massive assault on Kyiv after a stalled 40-mile ‘death convoy’ redeployed to surround the Ukrainian capital.
Satellite images reveal the huge mass of tanks and troops have now fanned out into nearby towns and forests, in an apparent bid to conceal themselves in civilian areas and prevent attacks.
Artillery pieces have been raised into firing position in a potentially ominous movement.
Tanks were also seen regrouping in towns near the Antonov Airport north of Kyiv – signalling a renewed push for control of the city.






























The convoy had massed outside Kyiv early last week, but its advance appeared to stall as reports of food and fuel shortages circulated.


US officials said Ukrainian troops also targeted it with anti-tank missiles
Yesterday, a top Russian commander was reportedly killed after some of the convoy was destroyed in a Ukrainian ambush that saw Moscow suffer another setback in its goal of seizing the capital.
Ukrainian forces unleash devastating ambush on Russian tank column near Kyiv

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Still, the immediacy of the threat to Kyiv was unclear as of Friday. A US defence official speaking on condition of anonymity said Russian forces moving toward Kyiv had advanced about three miles in the past 24 hours, with some elements as close as nine miles from the city.
The official gave no indication that the convoy had dispersed or otherwise repositioned in a significant way, saying some vehicles were seen moving off the road into the tree line in recent days.
Meanwhile, the UK’s Ministry of Defence (MoD) sad it is still ‘highly unlikely’ Russia has successfully achieved its invasion plan but will likely ‘re-posture’ for a renewed offensive.
‘Russian ground forces continue to make limited progress. Logistical issues that have hampered the Russian advance persist, as does strong Ukrainian resistance,’ MoD said in an intelligence update.
‘Russia is likely seeking to reset and re-posture its forces for renewed offensive activity in the coming days. This will probably include operations against the capital Kyiv.’




The convoy has dispersed int forests surrounding Kyiv (Picture: EPA)




The convoy was slowly advancing directly towards Kyiv but appears to have regrouped (Picture: Reuters)
It comes after Vladimir Putin reportedly sacked eight top generals in anger over the slow pace of the invasion. The Russian leader is also said to be enraged with leaders of the FSB security service for handing him intelligence suggesting that Ukraine was weak, riddled with neo-Nazi groups, and would give up easily if attacked.


Oleksiy Danilov, head of Ukraine’s security council, said Moscow believed it would seize Kyiv in two to three days.
‘It hasn’t happened and never will,’ he said, adding ‘desperate’ Putin has ‘now switched to a different tactic’ by changing leadership.
Western officials said Russian forces have made little progress on the ground in recent days and are seeing heavier losses and stiffer Ukrainian resistance than Moscow anticipated.
But Putin’s forces have used air power and artillery to pummel Ukraine’s cities.
There are fears that as the isolated despot grows increasingly frustrated, he may resort to more extreme measures to achieve his aim, such as using chemical weapons.
The West has stepped up efforts to isolate and sanction Russia, particularly after a deadly airstrike on a maternity hospital in the port city of Mariupol that Western and Ukrainian officials decried as a war crime.


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## Madni Bappa

RescueRanger said:


> Maxar captures artillery shelling by Russian Forces:
> View attachment 823309


I'm scared now. What if Maxar also captured the time I took a leak on side of I-65 enroute to Ohio 😯. I'll be in big trouble if Ohio staties find out. Damn.

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## jhungary

vi-va said:


> No offense.
> Does Green Card take you to Iraq? You are Vietnamese, right?


I was born in Kansas.


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## Wood




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## Clutch

Ali_Baba said:


> Russia has lost enough armoured vehicles to equip the ENTIRE German army​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine: 'Inept' Russian tactics baffle military experts
> 
> 
> The devastating artillery strikes came yesterday as Putin's troops inched closer to Kyiv. Military experts have said they are surprised by the tactics used by Moscow's armies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk



The Russians had to use the roads because offroad mechanised infantry would be stuck in Ukranian mud plains... Unfortunately, the Russians didn't anticipate that every Ukrainian will be armed with a shoulder mounted MANPAD and rocket launchers and their assault will turn into the highway of death....

As a Russian strategists, you need to carpet bomb all convoy approach areas just ahead of the mechanized decision.... For that you need air superiority and close air support. 

Reach city centres and use artillery and turn rubble before entering. 

War is bloody. You cannot do it in a clean manner if the West has armed the local population to the teeth. 

Iraq was different... The population was not armed so the Americas could afford to do the shock and awe with precision weapons on TV and then roll in.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502345407350730755

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## jhungary

Indos said:


> Well there is contract and investment done by the local partners, pulling out suddenly from Russia is not a wise thing to do. Contracts needs to be respected and the war is not the fault of their Russian partners.


I wouldn't say that if I own any Franchise in Russia.

And no, if they continue the control, they will get punished by the US State Department, I would rather break contract than pay the fine if I was the head of McDonald or Yum. You are talking about a fine that's about 10-20 times of what that contract forfeiture will cost, not to mention the chances of getting Boycott in the US. People are already talking about boycotting Subway in the US. 

At the end of the day, it's about whose market is more important for those US Franchise? Russia or US.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502412686776315909

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## Clutch

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Whoever left of the Neo Nazis (Azov) be saying now:



Any good Azov; is a dead Azov. 

Goodbye Nazis.



Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Mariupol turns out to be a formidable fortress
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502242278286499841



If the USA and Israel can use depleted Uranium bombs and Phosphorus Bombs in Palestine and the rest of the middle East.... What's the issue with the same in Ukraine. Let hell rain!.... No double standards.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502405952326230017


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## Clutch

Baghial said:


> “Putin’s invasion of Ukraine has primarily succeeded in materializing his worst fears: a unified West, a more militarized Europe, and a stronger, more attractive NATO.”. Putin Is Creating the NATO He Feared



I think NATO is creating the NATO Putin feared. Damned if he did, and damned if he didn't.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

the Russian casualities has been overstated imho. I see this from an angle free of bias and the truth is always somewhere in the middle of what both rivals are claiming

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## RescueRanger

Fire and damage at Antonov airport, north-west of Kyiv - Image (c) Maxar - Image taken 1100 hrs today.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502400038802186244
Pentagon spokesman to Fox News: Russian forces have made progress towards Kyiv during the past 24 hours


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502401137835659277

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## RescueRanger

Ukraine / Russia Monitor map - authored and maintained by the Centre for Information Resilience:









Eyes on Russia: The Russia-Ukraine Monitor Map by Cen4infoRes · MapHub


The Russia-Ukraine Monitor Map is a crowdsourced effort by the Centre for Information Resilience as part of the 'Eyes on Russia' project. We work with Bellingcat, GeoConfirmed, Conflict Intelligence Team, Advance Democracy and the open source community to map, document, archive and investigate...




maphub.net


----------



## pkuser2k12



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## Ali_Baba

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502405952326230017



I must be missing something - but why haven't the Ukranians made this airfield inoperable ? What exactly can they use it for ? Just take it off the table interms of value.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502336891395489793

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## khansaheeb

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> the Russian casualities has been overstated imho. I see this from an angle free of bias and the truth is always somewhere in the middle of what both rivals are claiming


How do you know? -" Russian casualities has been overstated imho"


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502383481158082572


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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

khansaheeb said:


> How do you know? -" Russian casualities has been overstated imho"



Because they have actully made geninue advances and hold approx 35% of the country and you can't do that if what the other side is claiming was true

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## Oublious

zartosht said:


> I wonder if Iran will join Russia in teaching turkey a lesson? Im sure the Russians are keeping tabs, and will be giving some new toys to the PKK.. But im not sure if Iran would follow. Since it has a strict "no pissing in your own pool" policy when it comes to neighbour instability. time will tell, But the Turks are crossing lines.
> 
> Regardless though, Turkey should expect some nasty surprised going forward... Especially their illegal occupying troops/terrorists in northern syria. Russia has alot of tools in its hands to make the turks bleed. Maybe Erdogan might get on his knees again and apologize again publicly?




Iran should give weapons to or cannon fodders from Afghanistam and Pakistan. Russia should give Pantsir and Buk, how many times can Turks humilate trolls like you?

Iran should give them ther SAM systems so we could humilate it to.... 

Operators should be Persians and not export version so you people not have excuses...


----------



## Clutch

Meengla said:


> Russia missed a chance to bleed America in Afghanistan for 20 years. Yes, there was supposed to be some support given to the Taliban but, being a regional power, a LOT more could have been done by Russia to hurt America in Afghanistan. Also, i*f Russia decides to make the war too forbidding for the West even right now, it could arm various anti-Israel forces with lethality never seen before. It will be a regional war but it will end one way or another soon because Israel's American backers wouldn't put up with blood spilling in Israel.*
> 
> Having said this... observing something is not the same as wishing something. I'd rather this war be over asap.



This is a spillover from the Ukraine-Russia conflict. The issue is that after this, the Russians will definitely arm to the teeth any Middle Eastern Extremist group that is oppossed to the West in order to get revenge.

That will really harm innocent Muslims who will be caught in the crossfire and those living in the West as guilty by association.


----------



## The SC

Ali_Baba said:


> I must be missing something - but why haven't the Ukranians made this airfield inoperable ? What exactly can they use it for ? Just take it off the table interms of value.


It looks already inoperable.. but has a tactical or strategic value somehow..


----------



## Clutch

RT News website:



https://www.rt.com/on-air/rt-player/


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502353759455821833

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

The song from money heist rendered into a Ukrianian freedom song.. It sounds quite good


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500588076648865794

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## Meengla

Clutch said:


> This is a spillover from the Ukraine-Russia conflict. The issue is that after this, the Russians will definitely arm to the teeth any Middle Eastern Extremist group that is oppossed to the West in order to get revenge.
> 
> That will really harm innocent Muslims who will be caught in the crossfire and those living in the West as guilty by association.



+ @thetutle 
If there are indeed volunteers from Israel or even indirect Israeli help to Ukraine then all this Putin love for Israel will be gone if he's pushed to a corner. It maybe that Israel has lots of its citizens of Russian origin but don't forget a lot of Ukrainian citizens also have very close ties with Russia. But in the end, all those are different countries. 

And let's be clear: The moment politicians in Washington decide to wind down this war, it will be wrapped up soon, even if that would mean giving concessions to Russia in Ukraine. While that maybe an unlikely scenario right now but IF that happens then all the noise you are hearing from Ukraine's supposed allies will subside very quickly. The West is nothing without America, at least not militarily! And so if Israel's security is greatly threatened by a regional war or lethally armed middle eastern actors then the usual bipartisan support in America is going to move into action to secure a peace. Putin has a potential card to play should it come to that.


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502425607170273280


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502428910641897472


----------



## RescueRanger

Cannon fodder en route from Syria.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502300785115381761

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## WinterFangs

khansaheeb said:


> How do you know? -" Russian casualities has been overstated imho"


Well the second day in, Ukrainians said that Russians had 2000 causalities whilst they only had 50, that’s how I atleast know it is very much overstated even now.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 823325
> 
> Cannon fodder en route from Syria.



I thought they were gonna wait until may when it gets warm.. The Ukrainians will grill these fodders

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502430513281310732


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502382967485779973


----------



## sur

Won't comment on who did it, you conclude yourself.
Allegedly, this is an image from Ukrainians controlled area where there are no Russians.
Rather US mercenaries are present in this city (so it has to be a safe city, far from Russians). This image is from a video that mercenaries made while travelling in their car.
Could be that civilians were trying to leave in this bus.

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## Clutch




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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502428796317835270

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## RescueRanger

There are intermittent explosions on the Horizon in Pereiaslav 95 Km south of Kyiv. 
*





50.04065970847179, 31.266428707932064 *Geo Location of the estimated location of the explosions.

*



*

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## sur

Congressman Darrell Issa
"*Fortunately, Zelensky doesn't go to our classified briefings, where it has repeatedly been said he has no chance*."







[Israeli PM] Bennett advises Zelensky to surrender to Russia, Zelensky refuses​Prime Minister Naftali Bennett told Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenksy that he recommends Ukraine take the offer made by Russian President Vladimir Putin to end the war - which includes many Ukrainian sacrifices - in a phone call on Tuesday, according to an official in Ukraine's government. According to the official,* Zelenksy did not take Bennett's advice*.

The source claimed that the phone call was initiated by Bennett. "If I were you, I would think about the lives of my people and take the offer," Bennett reportedly said.

Zelenksy's response was short. "I hear you," he said.

According to the report, Zelenksy and his people did not like the advice.

"Bennett told us to surrender," said the official. "We have no intention of doing so. We know Putin's offer is only the beginning."

*The official also said that Israel asked Ukraine not to request more military and defense aid because such a request could harm the mediation efforts*.

[Zelenksy's office said ] If Bennett wants to be neutral and mediate, we would expect to see him appoint someone to work on it day and night and try to get a compromise.


----------



## oberschlesier

What do you think will be the end game of this conflict ?


----------



## Madni Bappa

pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502353759455821833
> View attachment 823322


C'mon man





Know what I mean??


----------



## Flight of falcon

Ali_Baba said:


> Putin 'has placed the head of the FSB's foreign intelligence branch under house arrest​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin places head of the FSB's foreign intelligence under house arrest
> 
> 
> Also arrested is Anatoly Bolyukh, Beseda's deputy, according to respected author Andrey Soldatov, who said Putin is 'truly unhappy' with the agency - which he ran before becoming president.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk




Not that I would ever bother clicking on the link for this newspaper but Boy their reporting will put North Korean official media to shame.

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## Madni Bappa

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 823325
> 
> Cannon fodder en route from Syria.






Not canon fodder??


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## RescueRanger

Complete list of Web cam feeds of Ukraine - https://nagix.github.io/ukraine-livecams/#4.46/53/32.12/0/70



Madni Bappa said:


> Not canon fodder??


What do you mean by that? Could you elaborate?

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## oberschlesier

Madni Bappa said:


> C'mon man
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Know what I mean??


Yeah, good message. From NATO perspective, it`s about reinforcing the east flank, supporting the Ukrainians as much as possible in their just defence war and watch how Russia destroys itself in this idiotic and brutal war.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

oberschlesier said:


> Yeah, good message. From NATO perspective, it`s about reinforcing the east flank, supporting the Ukrainians as much as possible in their just defence war and watch how Russia destroys itself in this idiotic and brutal war.



Russia has to much on the line to lose here and won't wanna lose


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## oberschlesier

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Russia has to much on the line to lose here and won't wanna lose


sure, but do they have the capability ? Economically Russia it`s the size of Italy, and probably will go bankrupt in a couple of weeks. Sure, they have a lot of people and potential, but will they be able to mobilize, what is their morale ? Is this a just war? Rather a fantom move by a already died empire. As well don`t forget It`s a de facto proxy war with the West and the potential here, is at least 20:1 against Russia. The Chinese won`t help in the long run. It`s really sad that the Ukraine has to suffer, because of bad decision of Politicians, that belive in their own propaganda and have relly bad Intelligence services.

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## Abid123

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502287783204999171
> 21st century Heinrich Himmler


As if your country/people are any better....

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## Madni Bappa



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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502417292327596035


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## oberschlesier

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502417292327596035


It`s sad. Russia is destroying itself.


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## Tamerlane

oberschlesier said:


> What do you think will be the end game of this conflict ?



In my view the objective of this conflict is to overthrow Putin and install a puppet government in Russia. Someone like Yeltzin. A side benefit is that Germany and Europe come under Anglo-Zionist control, which has already happened. 

If Putin is overthrown I will accept that Russia lost. If he survives but Russia is isolated and its economy collapses then Russia would still have lost. 

If Putin survives and Russia doesn’t collapse then the Russians would have won. They can, and probably will, make a lot of trouble for the West and the unipolar world would have ended. 

Time will tell what will happen.

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## zartosht

Strategic town of volnovakha captured. 

Highway between mariupol and Donetsk goes thru here.

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## oberschlesier

Tamerlane said:


> In my view the objective of this conflict is to overthrow Putin and install a puppet government in Russia. Someone like Yeltzin. A side benefit is that Germany and Europe come under Anglo-Zionist control, which has already happened.
> 
> If Putin is overthrown I will accept that Russia lost. If he survives but Russia is isolated and its economy collapses then Russia would still have lost.
> 
> If Putin survives and Russia doesn’t collapse then the Russians would have won. They can, and probably will, make a lot of trouble for the West and the unipolar world would have ended.
> 
> Time will tell what will happen.


Thanks for your opinion. I think something in the middle. The end effect would be Russia rotting into a grey zone between China nad Europe. Something like a European-Chinese Condominium, The guys in Russia are just too emotional, not calculating, not looking on the numbers.

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## Vergennes

I'm still amazed at how so few people show up to Russian army's "delivery of humanitarian aid",while their soldiers have resorted to looting to feed themselves.

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## LeGenD

Clutch said:


> The Russians had to use the roads because offroad mechanised infantry would be stuck in Ukranian mud plains... Unfortunately, the Russians didn't anticipate that every Ukrainian will be armed with a shoulder mounted MANPAD and rocket launchers and their assault will turn into the highway of death....
> 
> As a Russian strategists, you need to carpet bomb all convoy approach areas just ahead of the mechanized decision.... For that you need air superiority and close air support.
> 
> Reach city centres and use artillery and turn rubble before entering.
> 
> War is bloody. You cannot do it in a clean manner if the West has armed the local population to the teeth.
> 
> Iraq was different... The population was not armed so the Americas could afford to do the shock and awe with precision weapons on TV and then roll in.



For general knowledge:









Battle of Nasiriyah - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





From well-respected Iraqi General Raad Hamdani:



Spoiler: Click to check



"The battle of Nasiriya, and the many [American] deaths and prisoners in the hands of militias -- The morale were very high; you can't imagine how high it was. There was an increasing positive attitude during the battles of Basra, Nasiriya, and Umm Qasr. I was tracing news through my own satellite receiver in my quarters, and I saw how the forces took the western side of Euphrates to avoid city battles. It's well known that when you have air cover, you can move freely and safely, beyond the reach of weapons situated in cities. Therefore, Nasiriya battle created a lot of optimism in our forces.

[But my personal view was] that we should take maximum precautions to face the enemy. Others took this lightly, saying "Why should we worry if this is the behavior of the attacking forces? They didn't show high competence." …

I was optimistic that the war will last for two months. If we passed those two months, the results would be reasonable for a simple army like ours against the biggest army in the world, attacking with these capabilities. So I was hoping that we could pass two months, and even if we lose, it would be an honorable stand."











Battle of Najaf (2003) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













Battle of Basra (2003) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













Battle of Karbala (2003) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













Battle of the Karbala Gap (2003) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





From well-respected Iraqi General Raad Hamdani:



Spoiler: Click to check



"In Usfiyah area. I convened a meeting of the leading officers in the army, along with the army's chief of staff. We reassessed the situation on the new facts that we have only two divisions, and the enemy is advancing on three axes. But the Republican Guard chief of staff conveyed orders from high command to launch an attack immediately, with available force. We carried out this order. Units from the Medina Al-Monawara Division launched an attack, the 10th Armored Brigade and special forces, and the 22nd Armored Brigade from Nabukhath Nassar Division. I tried also to deploy all artillery units available.

It was a terrible night, because the crossing of the Americans on the Euphrates were speeding up the advancement of the enemy to its strategic goal, which is Baghdad.

The advancement of our troops -- and this is my sixth war during my service -- was truly remarkable. They had high spirits and a strong will to fight, in spite of all dangers ahead. I used to tell them that the honor of Iraq and the fate of Baghdad depended on this battle.

I joined the front lines in battle. … I was advancing along with the commander of the Medina Al-Monawara Division, with special forces 3rd Brigade on three axes. On two axes, armored troops were advancing based on the 10th Armored Brigade. On the other axis, special forces were advancing, and I was in the middle.

A fierce battle took place. The enemy used enormous firepower. It looked like napalm. Rocket launchers would fire groups of rockets, about 12 rockets each, that would explode in the air, burning whatever it faces on its way with its flames. The battle continued during April 3 and April 4. The enemy was advancing on two axes. One axis was on the area of Qasr through the bridge heading to Usfiyah, the other one from the bridge heading to Radwaniyah. Another action was from the bridge to the south, heading to the military industrial area.

The battle that took place didn't look even like action movies, because events were so fast. I didn't have a single tank intact; it was either damaged or destroyed. I didn't have a single vehicle left. The battle reached a point where the army commander was fighting with a machine gun. The groups of command and communications were completely destroyed. The soldiers and officers were fighting as a personal effort. The spirit of sacrifice and martyrdom was an honor to our army and all Iraqis and Arabs.

From the dawn of April 3 until sunset, the Air Force destroyed anything that moved. Then the Americans broke through fiercely, as if it was programmed. Anything that moved was hit by tanks, armored vehicles, Apaches, and jet fighters, whether it was civilian or military, Republican Guard or not.

I tried to get back to my headquarters to gather troops, because even my mobile phone was out of order, because our communication group was hit, and all of its members were martyred. There were no leading figures; everybody was fighting. I asked the security personnel of the Medina division to bring me a vehicle, and they did -- a vehicle driven by a major. I got in. He was a poor driver, so I left the vehicle, and returned to my headquarters, going along with the American convoy advancing to Usfiyah.

The amount of fire and destruction was beyond description. The tragedy witnessed by civilians was horrible. Women, children, civilian cars were burned. It was chaos. I entered with American front lines, and my vehicle was hit every moment. There was no windows left in it, and the tires were hit. Lieutenant Hadir, that hero, was martyred in it. At one point, we were driving on the metal wheels. I saw one of the crew bringing me another vehicle. I changed cars, and went to my headquarters.

We had a quick meeting. There were three officers, along with the party official of the army, and the security group. At this moment, I issued many orders to move the units, to withdraw the 2nd Armored breakthrough to Baghdad that had happened.

It was only minutes before the American tanks and vehicles were storming into the headquarters. An engagement was on inside the headquarters. Half of security forces were martyred. An Abrams tank was under my room window. I noticed it from the look on the faces of the officers, pointing to the tank. So the party official said, "Sir, there is no room here for bravery or manhood. We should leave this place." I replied, "I'm already dead. The enemy tanks breached us. They are on their way to Baghdad, and there is no meaning left for life."

The enemy stormed into the headquarters. The fighting was on from room to room, street to street. We were almost surrounded. We were fighting with machine guns, towards the houses of this small area, which was countryside. At this place and in this moment, I felt I was making a wrong decision of killing the rest of those officers. So I permitted them to rescue themselves in any way and any direction. As for me, I felt as the captain of this ship, I should sink with it. They all left the place."











Battle of Baghdad (2003) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


















The Thunder Run


'Are You Kidding, Sir?': Fewer Than 1,000 Soldiers Were Ordered to Capture a City of 5 Million Iraqis. Theirs Is a Story That May Become Military Legend.




www.latimes.com













The 2003 Battle of Baghdad A Case Study of Urban Battle during Large-Scale Combat Operations


Doctrine regarding large-scale combat operations anticipates U.S. Army and allied land forces replicating the exceptionally low destruction of the 2003 Battle of Baghdad, even when fighting peer adversaries



www.armyupress.army.mil





US-led forces encountered resistance in other locations as well.

Wikipedia documents losses of Iraqi army in these battles but not Iraqi Fedayeen (volunteers). For perspective, over 2000 Fedayeen lost their lives in just Nasiriyah.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502436927194116099


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502429176007217162

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## oberschlesier

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502436927194116099


Is this going to be the miracle of the dnieper ?


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502353759455821833


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## Oldman1

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502353759455821833


You read that? NATO only. So Finland and Sweden are not NATO, countries that Russia has threaten as well.



jhungary said:


> Well, I am assuming you are referring to the Brovary Ambush. Yeah, that was really bad......I mean, if they are trained with armor assault or any type of training like that, they should know they should not run Armor up the MSR like that in tight column and without infantry support.
> 
> First of all, I would avoid running my tank on MSR at all, you would not see me doing that unless there are no other way of approach (And even if you don't have other way of approach, you can make one, I means that's what that 125mm gun is for) Then if I have to travel on any MSR in my tank, I would travel in a single file, that way if your lead tank is hit and disabled, you can just drove around it. And I most certainly would have dismounted infantry support my tank when I traverse thru an MSR.
> 
> That video, I don't know what's that. Honestly, I would expect the Ukrainian to do that, not the Russian.
> 
> Also, this is day 15, and Russia lost 2 other General, now it's up to 3 or 4 (I lost count, really) and the majority of the fight have not started yet, they have not attack Odessa, they have not attacked Kyiv and they have not attacked Dnipro yet, I mean, you are losing 3 or 4 general, about half a dozen Lt Col or Colonel and god knows how many soldier killed and captured for simply GETTING INTO POSITION OF ATTACK. You can already see how many Russia will lose during the main event.
> 
> You think getting into Kyiv is tough? I am pretty sure the Ukrainian would make every Russian bleed if they try to fight street to street. I honestly see the only way Russia can do that is with Chemical Weapon. Even then, this is not Aleppo, they are not fighting a rebel army or ISIS, Ukrainian have Civil Defence Training and proper MOPP equipment, I am not going to see any change other than the wholesale massacre of civilian, which in turn only further inflame the Ukrainian...


Not to mention more abandoned vehicles that the Ukrainians are being better equipped than what they lost, not to mention more anti tank weapons as well as body armor, helmets, small arms, etc. being flowing in from its neighbors. I can see why Russia is urging Belarus to help invade possibly Western Ukraine.

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## Madni Bappa

Vergennes said:


> I'm still amazed at how so few people show up to Russian army's "delivery of humanitarian aid",while their soldiers have resorted to looting to feed themselves.


Awww the kid saying spasiba 🥰


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## oberschlesier

Oldman1 said:


> You read that? NATO only. So Finland and Sweden are not NATO, countries that Russia has threaten as well.
> 
> 
> Not to mention more abandoned vehicles that the Ukrainians are being better equipped than what they lost, not to mention more anti tank weapons as well as body armor, helmets, small arms, etc. being flowing in from its neighbors. I can see why Russia is urging Belarus to help invade possibly Western Ukraine.


Yeah, probably Finland and Sweden are going to join the Nato soon, when situation calms a bit.

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## Madni Bappa

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502436927194116099


The war is still quite far from decisive.

Coming few days. Yes. Right now. No

The war still hasn't reached 30 day mark.


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## Oldman1

Madni Bappa said:


> The war is still quite far from decisive.
> 
> Coming few days. Yes. Right now. No
> 
> The war still hasn't reached 30 day mark.


I thought some posters say this war was going to be over in 2 days from the beginning.

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## oberschlesier

Madni Bappa said:


> The war is still quite far from decisive.
> 
> Coming few days. Yes. Right now. No
> 
> The war still hasn't reached 30 day mark.


Strategictly Russia already lost on 27.02.2022, when this happended:








Deutschland: 100 Milliarden Euro für Bundeswehr & Flüssiggas-Terminals - WELT


Die Bundeswehr soll über ein Sondervermögen 100 Milliarden Euro für Investitionen und Rüstungsvorhaben aus dem Bundeshaushalt erhalten. Bundeskanzler Scholz kündigte außerdem an, dass Deutschland in Zukunft mehr als zwei Prozent des Bruttoinlandsprodukts in die Verteidigung investieren werde.




www.welt.de

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## Oldman1

Muhammed45 said:


> Russian army is too regular and Classic. They cannot Manage Urban warfare. The only way left for them is bombing the hell out of Ukrainian cities. USA successfuly turned it into a trap for Russians.
> 
> Moreover Russian army wasn't good at AI/autonomous warfare.
> 
> Still they hold a considerable portion of Ukrainian territories. So they can encircle Kiev.


Don't believe that crap they hold considerable amount of territory. Just cause you drive fast on the road everything from left and right of you 50km away is now under your control. If you were in one of the supply convoys, you be scared to death driving along the road.

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## gambit

Here is the purported list of officers KIA-ed.









Russian Command Losses Are Staggering: THE LATEST ON THE INVASION OF UKRAINE - The Debrief


While the Kremlin has been largely silent on its combat losses in Ukraine, an exclusive investigation by The Debrief reveals Russia's loss of command officers is staggering.




thedebrief.org

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## vi-va

jhungary said:


> I was born in Kansas.


Your parents are South Vietnam refugee, relocated to Hong Kong?

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## Madni Bappa

Oldman1 said:


> I thought some posters say this war was going to be over in 2 days from the beginning.


I never believed that tbh. It's hard to gauge how long this will go. Since there is tons of disinfo from US and NATO. And comedic, I mean BJP RSS levels of disinfo and clownary from Ukrainians.

Russian perspective has totally been shut down. So it's hard to gauge.

Russia despite losses continues to gain territory. Ukrainians are armed to the teeth by NATO. Both sides are flying in foreign fighters. After this weekend and into next week things will get very intense given Russians now also flying in battle hardened fighters from overseas. We might see the moral-less conscripts falling back and giving way to better caliber of troops. 

Above is all conjecture tho.



oberschlesier said:


> Strategictly Russia already lost on 27.02.2022, when this happended:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deutschland: 100 Milliarden Euro für Bundeswehr & Flüssiggas-Terminals - WELT
> 
> 
> Die Bundeswehr soll über ein Sondervermögen 100 Milliarden Euro für Investitionen und Rüstungsvorhaben aus dem Bundeshaushalt erhalten. Bundeskanzler Scholz kündigte außerdem an, dass Deutschland in Zukunft mehr als zwei Prozent des Bruttoinlandsprodukts in die Verteidigung investieren werde.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.welt.de


One door closes another opens.

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## K_Bin_W

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502353759455821833


Well of course, 6500 war heads that is! why would NATO liberate Ukraine and bring democracy. Lol..


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## jhungary

vi-va said:


> Your parents are South Vietnam refugee, relocated to Hong Kong?


Let me put things in prespective.

Sino-Vietnamese War is in 1978-1979 (My mother left before it ends) I was born in 1980s

Can you just do the maths for once?

I will also give you another 2 hints, my dad is a Chicano. And people took a boat to Hong Kong may not settle in Hong Kong. Now, put the dot together if you will, I am not going further with this conversation

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## Shakuni Mama

khansaheeb said:


> and risk the Russians taking off the gloves and bombing them into stone age?


What is left there ? Ain't they already there in stone age ? People are migrating,entire infrastructure got broken. What will you find there apart from fighters thirsty for Russian blood ?

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## Muhammed45

Vergennes said:


> That's definitely a T90A with shtora systems on the front.


With that small turret, it is a modified T72.


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## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> Some don't realize that according to most accurate estimates Russia has lost up to 6.000 soldiers,if we apply a ratio of killed to wounded at 1 for 3 that's close to 20.000 soldiers wounded and put out of action,out of the ~200.000 soldiers mobilized,not even adding more than one thousand vehicles assessed as lost. (destroyed,captured,abandoned),that's huge.
> 
> Not even adding losses of the DPR and LNR. But "operation is going according to the plans".
> 
> Russians have been proved to hide ammunations and weapons in vehicles marked with the red cross.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502410518778241026
> Just bomb them.


This is evidence that Russia lost 4 general that we knows of 5 if you count the "Maybe" that was brought down in Hostemol the other day. (It was said that Ukrainian brought down 3 general in that battle)

You don't generally lose your general unless the enemy is cutting that deep into your line, which mean by then you would have looking at 1000s of deaths and wounded. And that's just 1 general. Unless you are telling me Russian is stupid enough to have 2 or more general going on the same truck/car/plane. That mean you are looking at possible 5 digit lost for Russia.

Another thing is, all these is before they really go down street by street fighting in any of the major city that they need to take (Kharkiv, Odessa, Kyiv, Dnipro and Mairupol) You are expecting casualty to go up exponentially when they start go into urban conflict.

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## vi-va

jhungary said:


> Let me put things in prespective.
> 
> Sino-Vietnamese War is in 1978-1979 (My mother left before it ends) I was born in 1980s
> 
> Can you just do the maths for once?
> 
> I will also give you another 2 hints, my dad is a Chicano. And people took a boat to Hong Kong may not settle in Hong Kong. Now, put the dot together if you will, I am not going further with this conversation


Thanks, just curious because of your Chinese flag.


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## jhungary

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> the Russian casualities has been overstated imho. I see this from an angle free of bias and the truth is always somewhere in the middle of what both rivals are claiming


You can make an educated guess from the number of Staff/Flag officer Russia lost.

At this point Russia lost 4 generals, 6 or 7 LTC/Col, all those are from official Russian source.

You usually don't get to Staff/Flag Officer until your enemy reached into their line (which was defended by thousand of troop.) So you can estimate the number of troop lost (Killed/Wounded/Missing/Capture) by how many lost in command position.

1 General would usually corresponded to 2000 + Casualty
1 Colonel would usually corresponded to 1000+ Casualty
1 LTC would usually corresponded to 800+ Casualty

Considering General commanding a Division or Army with 12,000 + troop, and a Colonel command a Brigade with 6000+ troop and 1 LTC control a battalion with 600-1000 troop.

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## zartosht

jhungary said:


> This is evidence that Russia lost 4 general that we knows of 5 if you count the "Maybe" that was brought down in Hostemol the other day. (It was said that Ukrainian brought down 3 general in that battle)
> 
> *You don't generally lose your general unless the enemy is cutting that deep into your line, *which mean by then you would have looking at 1000s of deaths and wounded. And that's just 1 general. Unless you are telling me Russian is stupid enough to have 2 or more general going on the same truck/car/plane. That mean you are looking at possible 5 digit lost for .



What a ridiculous thing to say. Military culture plays a huge role in where a general is on the battlefield

It appears that Russia has adopted the Iranian style jn syria. They also lost a general there who was personally on the field directing his troops

Iran lost alot of top officers including general hanadani who was the second mos senior officer in suria after soleimani. Though it was not in vain as it played a huge role in the syrian forces comeback

It is a massive morale boost when a high ranking officer is personally on the frontline with his men. And shows incredible bravery

A very famous example of this was the battles of bint jbail and maroon ar ras between hezbollah and israel. 

Zionist officers were sitting safely in a comfortable car giving orders to their men

While hezbollah commanders such as khalid bazzi. 




__





Khalid Bazzi - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





Disobeyed personal orders from nasrallah to leave bint jbail as another commander was there and there was no need to risk them both. He replied that “i will leave as a martyr”

He personally fought israelis, gave them a huge bloody nose in those battles that convinced them to retreat and accept humiliating defeat. 

There are pros and cons to both approaches. Its all about culture and the personal character of the officers in my opinion

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## beijingwalker

Horror claim Ukraine war is 'fake' sparks frenzy – Kyiv accused of using 'crisis actors'​

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1335969839052173317








Horror claim Ukraine war is 'fake' sparks frenzy


A SERIES of social media posts falsely claiming that the invasion of Ukraine is "fake" have been going viral, and some even falsely accuse the country of using "crisis actors" to fabricate the impacts of the Russian invasion.




www.express.co.uk

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## khansaheeb

beijingwalker said:


> Horror claim Ukraine war is 'fake' sparks frenzy – Kyiv accused of using 'crisis actors'​
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1335969839052173317
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Horror claim Ukraine war is 'fake' sparks frenzy
> 
> 
> A SERIES of social media posts falsely claiming that the invasion of Ukraine is "fake" have been going viral, and some even falsely accuse the country of using "crisis actors" to fabricate the impacts of the Russian invasion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.express.co.uk


Latest images from Ukraine:-

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## beijingwalker

Any "news" from western or Ukraine media is not trustworthy, must be taken with a lot of salt.

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## Madni Bappa

beijingwalker said:


> Any "news" from western or Ukraine media is not trustworthy, must be taken with a lot of salt.


Nice to have you here as counterweight to all the American bots.

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## oberschlesier

Madni Bappa said:


> I never believed that tbh. It's hard to gauge how long this will go. Since there is tons of disinfo from US and NATO. And comedic, I mean BJP RSS levels of disinfo and clownary from Ukrainians.
> 
> Russian perspective has totally been shut down. So it's hard to gauge.
> 
> Russia despite losses continues to gain territory. Ukrainians are armed to the teeth by NATO. Both sides are flying in foreign fighters. After this weekend and into next week things will get very intense given Russians now also flying in battle hardened fighters from overseas. We might see the moral-less conscripts falling back and giving way to better caliber of troops.
> 
> Above is all conjecture tho.
> 
> 
> One door closes another opens.



The Situation is like this:
The second military power on the planet according to: https://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.php?country_id=russia fights the poorest country in Europe... and gets.... stuck in the mud. Does not achieve their goals for 2 weeks+, maybe it will further with huge costs. Now it`s already getting desperate and shoots civilians, which is an outrage.

Ukrainians got training and light weapons from NATO and yes, they have learnt and improved their QUALITY by this, but their morale makes the difference here. In the end the whole thing is extremely tragic and sad. In eastern UA Russians are shooting other russians for nobody knows what end ?

btw. "flying in battle hardened fighters from overseas" - yeah, middle east, africa ? it`s -10 C there, this is "rather cold" for eastern european and for those troops it will be shocking. I want to see this.

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## Madni Bappa

oberschlesier said:


> The Situation is like this:
> The second military power on the planet according to: https://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.php?country_id=russia fights the poorest country in Europe... and gets.... stuck in the mud. Does not achieve their goals for 2 weeks+, maybe it will further with huge costs. Now it`s already getting desperate and shoots civilians, which is an outrage.
> 
> Ukrainians got training and light weapons from NATO and yes, they have learnt and improved their QUALITY by this, but their morale makes the difference here. In the end the whole thing is extremely tragic and sad. In eastern UA Russians are shooting other russians for nobody knows what end ?
> 
> btw. "flying in battle hardened fighters from overseas" - yeah, middle east, africa ? it`s -10 C there, this is "rather cold" for eastern european and for those troops it will be shocking. I want to see this.


I came from 37°C weather to sub zero temps as well. It's not as big of a deal you make it out to be. With proper gear. Without proper gear even natives would struggle as well.


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## Tamerlane

oberschlesier said:


> Thanks for your opinion. I think something in the middle. The end effect would be Russia rotting into a grey zone between China nad Europe. Something like a European-Chinese Condominium, The guys in Russia are just too emotional, not calculating, not looking on the numbers.



I think that it would be a mistake to assume that Russia will become a, non-entity, a larger version of North Korea.

More likely, Russia's break from the West will encourage many countries that are hiding in the closet to come out. These are countries that are acting like they're pro-West, but they're only doing it out of fear. When they see an alternative they will jump into the Sino-Russian camp. 

There are many countries, especially Muslim, were the public is anti-Western because of recent experience, but they have pro-West rulers. These may be overthrown or switch sides. There could be 'achromatic' revolutions (opposite of colour) to overthrow pro-West rulers and replace them with pro-Sino-Russian ones. 

There will also be countries that remain in the Western camp but will become defiant. This is already visible with the behaviour of some Arab countries that wouldn't talk to Biden.

Every country will be forced to decide between one side or the other, like during the Cold War. Lots of smaller wars and revolutions etc. A lot of things will be going on in the future.

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## oberschlesier

Madni Bappa said:


> I came from 37°C weather to sub zero temps as well. It's not as big of a deal you make it out to be. With proper gear. Without proper gear even natives would struggle as well.


If you are now used to this, it`s could be a problem. Have you ever dealt with a cold of < -10C ?


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## tower9

Tamerlane said:


> I think that it would be a mistake to assume that Russia will become a, non-entity, a larger version of North Korea.
> 
> More likely, Russia's break from the West will encourage many countries that are hiding in the closet to come out. These are countries that are acting like they're pro-West, but they're only doing it out of fear. When they see an alternative they will jump into the Sino-Russian camp.
> 
> There are many countries, especially Muslim, were the public is anti-Western because of recent experience, but they have pro-West rulers. These may be overthrown or switch sides. There could be 'achromatic' revolutions (opposite of colour) to overthrow pro-West rulers and replace them with pro-Sino-Russian ones.
> 
> There will also be countries that remain in the Western camp but will become defiant. This is already visible with the behaviour of some Arab countries that wouldn't talk to Biden.
> 
> Every country will be forced to decide between one side or the other, like during the Cold War. Lots of smaller wars and revolutions etc. A lot of things will be going on in the future.


Plenty of Muslim, Latin and African countries fall under this category. That’s a huge chunk of the global population.

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## Wood

Putin Places Spies Under House Arrest


After two weeks of halting war against Ukraine, Vladimir Putin just suddenly launched an attack in a surprising direction — his beloved agency, the FSB.




cepa.org

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## tower9

Wood said:


> Putin Places Spies Under House Arrest
> 
> 
> After two weeks of halting war against Ukraine, Vladimir Putin just suddenly launched an attack in a surprising direction — his beloved agency, the FSB.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cepa.org


It’s putins own fault, he surrounded himself with yes men who were afraid to contradict him.

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## Madni Bappa

oberschlesier said:


> If you are now used to this, it`s could be a problem. Have you ever dealt with a cold of < -10C ?


Routinely that's kinda I want to move to Texas or something. Not necessarily cuz of the weather. More because of the seasonal disorder.


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## CAPRICORN-88



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## Wood

tower9 said:


> It’s putins own fault, he surrounded himself with yes men who were afraid to contradict him.


You cannot be an autocratic ruler without keeping yes men around you!

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## mmr

Wood said:


> You cannot be an autocratic ruler without keeping yes men around you!


Seems putler now understand he is about to get fucked.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501123330262380551

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## Shakuni Mama

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> The song from money heist rendered into a Ukrianian freedom song.. It sounds quite good
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500588076648865794





vi-va said:


> Your parents are South Vietnam refugee, relocated to Hong Kong?


@LeGenD could you please take care of this troll ?

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## Madni Bappa

tower9 said:


> Plenty of Muslim, Latin and African countries fall under this category. That’s a huge chunk of the global population.


The UN vote clearly shows that it's mostly rich white nations and their minions/poodles on a leash. Who are pro Ukrainian. Others I think can see quite clearly through their bs.



tower9 said:


> It’s putins own fault, he surrounded himself with yes men who were afraid to contradict him.


I think sergei was about to make a move. Or you could be right. He could just be a yes man fell prey.

But all the Intel failures that are happening I think Sergei and a chunk of FSB were growing disgruntled or colluding with US.


Side note:
Seriously when I look at how Russia has been otherized and humiliated since 90s. Even though when they wanted to become part of the "West"it all seems really unjust and unfair to me.

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## Shakuni Mama

Tamerlane said:


> There will also be countries that remain in the Western camp but will become defiant. This is already visible with the behaviour of some Arab countries that wouldn't talk to Biden.



I read it somewhere it is because of the reason that they want United States to come to their rescue in Yemen War otherwise they very well know that they can be toppled in a day at the max.They are just throwing tantrums.


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## Clutch

tower9 said:


> It’s putins own fault, he surrounded himself with yes men who were afraid to contradict him.




"_The Fifth Service was responsible for providing Putin with intelligence on political developments in Ukraine on the eve of the invasion. And it looks like two weeks into the war, it finally dawned on Putin that he was completely misled. The department, fearful of his responses, seems to have told Putin what he wanted to hear._"
.... This is the problem with most draconian authoritarian leaders.... They are often told everything is fine by yes men because honest feedback is feared as there may be reprisal by the dictator who can't hear the critical truth...

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## jhungary

zartosht said:


> What a ridiculous thing to say. Military culture plays a huge role in where a general is on the battlefield
> 
> It appears that Russia has adopted the Iranian style jn syria. They also lost a general there who was personally on the field directing his troops
> 
> Iran lost alot of top officers including general hanadani who was the second mos senior officer in suria after soleimani. Though it was not in vain as it played a huge role in the syrian forces comeback
> 
> It is a massive morale boost when a high ranking officer is personally on the frontline with his men. And shows incredible bravery
> 
> A very famous example of this was the battles of bint jbail and maroon ar ras between hezbollah and israel.
> 
> Zionist officers were sitting safely in a comfortable car giving orders to their men
> 
> While hezbollah commanders such as khalid bazzi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Khalid Bazzi - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disobeyed personal orders from nasrallah to leave bint jbail as another commander was there and there was no need to risk them both. He replied that “i will leave as a martyr”
> 
> He personally fought israelis, gave them a huge bloody nose in those battles that convinced them to retreat and accept humiliating defeat.
> 
> There are pros and cons to both approaches. Its all about culture and the personal character of the officers in my opinion


Well, it depends on what kind of Battlefield Information Support you have. General goes up front is not at all a valid option because General is the person who stand behind the entire operation. When you are in that particular Part of Battlefield, you only able to see how that part of battlefield doing, if you are the guy who plan the whole thing, you need to look at the Big Picture. Which is something you will not get when you are standing at the frontline.

*It may make sense for Iranian Army or Hezbollah to have the General to be as close to the front as possible because their Battlespace Awareness is most certainly lower than Russia or US or even non-existence*, you don't have a lot of Satellite, ISTAR asset, Joint Intelligence Service asset to provide you with the latest movement on the ground within your AO, maybe you need to move closer to the front, but Russia are very much in a matured state of all those, General Staff don't really need to go up to the front line and risk getting shot for information.

Professional Force in the East (Russia, China) and West (US UK, France) do not depend on "Morale" factor the general give you, we are not fighting in medieval time when leading up front and charge is one of the valid strategy to attack your enemy. In fact, when a general come into the frontline and started to kick your ***, that's where you know your advance is not going anywhere.

Think of it like this, there are generally 10-20 Theater General deployed with the troop in battle, that's 20 brains at most to all battle related decision, they lost 4 (or 25-40%) of that brain. That's a big lost in case you are wondering.

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## Clutch

LeGenD said:


> For general knowledge:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Battle of Nasiriyah - Wikipedia
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> en.wikipedia.org
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> 
> 
> From well-respected Iraqi General Raad Hamdani:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Click to check
> 
> 
> 
> "The battle of Nasiriya, and the many [American] deaths and prisoners in the hands of militias -- The morale were very high; you can't imagine how high it was. There was an increasing positive attitude during the battles of Basra, Nasiriya, and Umm Qasr. I was tracing news through my own satellite receiver in my quarters, and I saw how the forces took the western side of Euphrates to avoid city battles. It's well known that when you have air cover, you can move freely and safely, beyond the reach of weapons situated in cities. Therefore, Nasiriya battle created a lot of optimism in our forces.
> 
> [But my personal view was] that we should take maximum precautions to face the enemy. Others took this lightly, saying "Why should we worry if this is the behavior of the attacking forces? They didn't show high competence." …
> 
> I was optimistic that the war will last for two months. If we passed those two months, the results would be reasonable for a simple army like ours against the biggest army in the world, attacking with these capabilities. So I was hoping that we could pass two months, and even if we lose, it would be an honorable stand."
> 
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> 
> Battle of Najaf (2003) - Wikipedia
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> 
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> en.wikipedia.org
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> Battle of Basra (2003) - Wikipedia
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> en.wikipedia.org
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> Battle of Karbala (2003) - Wikipedia
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> en.wikipedia.org
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> Battle of the Karbala Gap (2003) - Wikipedia
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> en.wikipedia.org
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> From well-respected Iraqi General Raad Hamdani:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Click to check
> 
> 
> 
> "In Usfiyah area. I convened a meeting of the leading officers in the army, along with the army's chief of staff. We reassessed the situation on the new facts that we have only two divisions, and the enemy is advancing on three axes. But the Republican Guard chief of staff conveyed orders from high command to launch an attack immediately, with available force. We carried out this order. Units from the Medina Al-Monawara Division launched an attack, the 10th Armored Brigade and special forces, and the 22nd Armored Brigade from Nabukhath Nassar Division. I tried also to deploy all artillery units available.
> 
> It was a terrible night, because the crossing of the Americans on the Euphrates were speeding up the advancement of the enemy to its strategic goal, which is Baghdad.
> 
> The advancement of our troops -- and this is my sixth war during my service -- was truly remarkable. They had high spirits and a strong will to fight, in spite of all dangers ahead. I used to tell them that the honor of Iraq and the fate of Baghdad depended on this battle.
> 
> I joined the front lines in battle. … I was advancing along with the commander of the Medina Al-Monawara Division, with special forces 3rd Brigade on three axes. On two axes, armored troops were advancing based on the 10th Armored Brigade. On the other axis, special forces were advancing, and I was in the middle.
> 
> A fierce battle took place. The enemy used enormous firepower. It looked like napalm. Rocket launchers would fire groups of rockets, about 12 rockets each, that would explode in the air, burning whatever it faces on its way with its flames. The battle continued during April 3 and April 4. The enemy was advancing on two axes. One axis was on the area of Qasr through the bridge heading to Usfiyah, the other one from the bridge heading to Radwaniyah. Another action was from the bridge to the south, heading to the military industrial area.
> 
> The battle that took place didn't look even like action movies, because events were so fast. I didn't have a single tank intact; it was either damaged or destroyed. I didn't have a single vehicle left. The battle reached a point where the army commander was fighting with a machine gun. The groups of command and communications were completely destroyed. The soldiers and officers were fighting as a personal effort. The spirit of sacrifice and martyrdom was an honor to our army and all Iraqis and Arabs.
> 
> From the dawn of April 3 until sunset, the Air Force destroyed anything that moved. Then the Americans broke through fiercely, as if it was programmed. Anything that moved was hit by tanks, armored vehicles, Apaches, and jet fighters, whether it was civilian or military, Republican Guard or not.
> 
> I tried to get back to my headquarters to gather troops, because even my mobile phone was out of order, because our communication group was hit, and all of its members were martyred. There were no leading figures; everybody was fighting. I asked the security personnel of the Medina division to bring me a vehicle, and they did -- a vehicle driven by a major. I got in. He was a poor driver, so I left the vehicle, and returned to my headquarters, going along with the American convoy advancing to Usfiyah.
> 
> The amount of fire and destruction was beyond description. The tragedy witnessed by civilians was horrible. Women, children, civilian cars were burned. It was chaos. I entered with American front lines, and my vehicle was hit every moment. There was no windows left in it, and the tires were hit. Lieutenant Hadir, that hero, was martyred in it. At one point, we were driving on the metal wheels. I saw one of the crew bringing me another vehicle. I changed cars, and went to my headquarters.
> 
> We had a quick meeting. There were three officers, along with the party official of the army, and the security group. At this moment, I issued many orders to move the units, to withdraw the 2nd Armored breakthrough to Baghdad that had happened.
> 
> It was only minutes before the American tanks and vehicles were storming into the headquarters. An engagement was on inside the headquarters. Half of security forces were martyred. An Abrams tank was under my room window. I noticed it from the look on the faces of the officers, pointing to the tank. So the party official said, "Sir, there is no room here for bravery or manhood. We should leave this place." I replied, "I'm already dead. The enemy tanks breached us. They are on their way to Baghdad, and there is no meaning left for life."
> 
> The enemy stormed into the headquarters. The fighting was on from room to room, street to street. We were almost surrounded. We were fighting with machine guns, towards the houses of this small area, which was countryside. At this place and in this moment, I felt I was making a wrong decision of killing the rest of those officers. So I permitted them to rescue themselves in any way and any direction. As for me, I felt as the captain of this ship, I should sink with it. They all left the place."
> 
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> Battle of Baghdad (2003) - Wikipedia
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> The Thunder Run
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> 'Are You Kidding, Sir?': Fewer Than 1,000 Soldiers Were Ordered to Capture a City of 5 Million Iraqis. Theirs Is a Story That May Become Military Legend.
> 
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> www.latimes.com
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> The 2003 Battle of Baghdad A Case Study of Urban Battle during Large-Scale Combat Operations
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> Doctrine regarding large-scale combat operations anticipates U.S. Army and allied land forces replicating the exceptionally low destruction of the 2003 Battle of Baghdad, even when fighting peer adversaries
> 
> 
> 
> www.armyupress.army.mil
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US-led forces encountered resistance in other locations as well.
> 
> Wikipedia documents losses of Iraqi army in these battles but not Iraqi Fedayeen (volunteers). For perspective, over 2000 Fedayeen lost their lives in just Nasiriyah.



Thanks for that informative response... And for correction my over simplification...

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## oberschlesier

Tamerlane said:


> I think that it would be a mistake to assume that Russia will become a, non-entity, a larger version of North Korea.
> 
> More likely, Russia's break from the West will encourage many countries that are hiding in the closet to come out. These are countries that are acting like they're pro-West, but they're only doing it out of fear. When they see an alternative they will jump into the Sino-Russian camp.
> 
> There are many countries, especially Muslim, were the public is anti-Western because of recent experience, but they have pro-West rulers. These may be overthrown or switch sides. There could be 'achromatic' revolutions (opposite of colour) to overthrow pro-West rulers and replace them with pro-Sino-Russian ones.
> 
> There will also be countries that remain in the Western camp but will become defiant. This is already visible with the behaviour of some Arab countries that wouldn't talk to Biden.
> 
> Every country will be forced to decide between one side or the other, like during the Cold War. Lots of smaller wars and revolutions etc. A lot of things will be going on in the future.


What russia is trying to do right now, is to have it`s own block (rusky mir)., I generally belive Russia is too weak for having it`s own block , well the Ukrainian tractors shows us why 
Russia is generally a "gas station" with rockets, that desperatelly needs technologies. I believe there will be only two blocks, Sino( Autocratic ) and the West( Democratic ), maybe some unaligned. Russia is trying to win something here, by playing the "influence zone" game to matter something in couple of years. Before "the war" Russia was de facto the "gas station" for the EU, delivered raw materials , got for this money and access to western technologies. This relationship was good and could continue, Russia could be another Norway, but Russia decided to go well "Russia" due to "we have to have an emprire like in 1979" ideology and started this idiotic war in the Ukraine. A lot could be said about why this happened, a generally an effect of the Naivität of german policy of "Wandel durch Handel", a stagneted power system, Chinese influence and other stuff, but it hapenned,

How do we look now ?

Forget about Russia being a Superpower. it`s a great power. The Ukraine war it`s just a fantom movement of a lost empire. Putin and old Soviets are trying to get something, that is already gone..

There 3 Options:
1. Russia gets back to the Western Camp, continous to deliver recources to the center and has more/less acesss to the technologies but it`s stops going wacko.
2. Russia becomes a "comdominium" West vs. China. It`s neutral and delivers recources to both sides, This is not so bad.
3. Russia lands in the Sino Camp.

"More likely, Russia's break from the West" - for now the West have broken up with Russia, remember the West is the stronger Partner,

Generally in the end Democracy always wins, because it produced unpredictable situation and actors out of nothing ( e.g. Zelensky ) .

btw. The rotten Western world it`s collapsing at least since the time of french revolution, if not from of the time of the Roman Empire, and it`s still there. It will continue to collapse forever, its called change.

just some thoughts from my side.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502532792630099970

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502533951491133443


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## thetutle

oberschlesier said:


> What russia is trying to do right now, is to have it`s own block (rusky mir)., I generally belive Russia is too weak for having it`s own block , well the Ukrainian tractors shows us why
> Russia is generally a "gas station" with rockets, that desperatelly needs technologies. I believe there will be only two blocks, Sino( Autocratic ) and the West( Democratic ), maybe some unaligned. Russia is trying to win something here, by playing the "influence zone" game to matter something in couple of years. Before "the war" Russia was de facto the "gas station" for the EU, delivered raw materials , got for this money and access to western technologies. This relationship was good and could continue, Russia could be another Norway, but Russia decided to go well "Russia" due to "we have to have an emprire like in 1979" ideology and started this idiotic war in the Ukraine. A lot could be said about why this happened, a generally an effect of the Naivität of german policy of "Wandel durch Handel", a stagneted power system, Chinese influence and other stuff, but it hapenned,
> 
> How do we look now ?
> 
> Forget about Russia being a Superpower. it`s a great power. The Ukraine war it`s just a fantom movement of a lost empire. Putin and old Soviets are trying to get something, that is already gone..
> 
> There 3 Options:
> 1. Russia gets back to the Western Camp, continous to deliver recources to the center and has more/less acesss to the technologies but it`s stops going wacko.
> 2. Russia becomes a "comdominium" West vs. China. It`s neutral and delivers recources to both sides, This is not so bad.
> 3. Russia lands in the Sino Camp.
> 
> "More likely, Russia's break from the West" - for now the West have broken up with Russia, remember the West is the stronger Partner,
> 
> Generally in the end Democracy always wins, because it produced unpredictable situation and actors out of nothing ( e.g. Zelensky ) .
> 
> btw. The rotten Western world it`s collapsing at least since the time of french revolution, if not from of the time of the Roman Empire, and it`s still there. It will continue to collapse forever, its called change.
> 
> just some thoughts from my side.


What do you think it would take for the west to lift sanctions on Russia? I just dont see how it could be done even if Russia pulls out of Ukraine tomorrow. Which of course it wont. 

I dont see how sanctions are lifted without total regime change.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

https://www.rt.com/business/551698-turkey-russia-trade-dollar-swift/

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## Dai Toruko

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502303077369585666

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## LeGenD

More information about Neo-Nazi angle coming to light now:

Apparently oblivious to these historical parallels, Putin sees Nazis on the march everywhere but at home. Yet it is he who routinely enlists the help of neo-Nazis like Dmitry Utkin, a mercenary with the Wagner Group, a private army financed by pro-Kremlin oligarchs, who bears Waffen-SS tattoos on his collarbone and chest.

As with Nazi Germany, the Kremlin’s provocations seem extraordinarily inept. Russia is ostentatiously and brutally violating international law in an effort to humiliate Ukraine and frighten a dissolute West. That is why the Kremlin’s propaganda has gone to such lengths to smear Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky as a drug addict and a neo-Nazi, even though he is a Jew whose grandfather fought the Nazis in World War II, and who lost many other relatives in the Holocaust.


Until recently, Russian propaganda has worked not only in Russia but also in the West. Beyond the US Republicans who have openly sided with Putin, many Germans have long failed to appreciate that the Soviet victims of Nazism were not all Russian. In fact, Nazism claimed proportionally more Ukrainian victims, and a Ukrainian soldier was the first to open the gates of Auschwitz.









Who's the Nazi? | by Sławomir Sierakowski - Project Syndicate


Sławomir Sierakowski highlights the resemblance of Vladimir Putin's war on Ukraine to Adolf Hitler's destruction of Czechoslovakia.




www.project-syndicate.org





Related:









Putin's claim of fighting against Ukraine 'neo-Nazis' distorts history, scholars say


Scholars dismiss the Russian leader's claims as a "mythical use of history." For one: Ukraine overwhelmingly elected a Jewish president, and has a relatively small right-wing movement.




www.npr.org





Even Indians are not buying it:









Why Putin is so totally wrong when accusing Ukrainian leadership of being Nazis


In the era of ultra-Right nationalism, Putin is trying to play up Slav nationalism, carrying the legacy of the Russians’ deep distrust of the Jews.




theprint.in





@dBSPL
@RescueRanger
@The SC
@Hassan Al-Somal
@Elias MC

- - - -

Wagner Group in spotlight again for all the wrong reasons. Hmm.

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## RescueRanger

LeGenD said:


> More information about Neo-Nazi angle coming to light now:
> 
> Apparently oblivious to these historical parallels, Putin sees Nazis on the march everywhere but at home. Yet it is he who routinely enlists the help of neo-Nazis like Dmitry Utkin, a mercenary with the Wagner Group, a private army financed by pro-Kremlin oligarchs, who bears Waffen-SS tattoos on his collarbone and chest.
> 
> As with Nazi Germany, the Kremlin’s provocations seem extraordinarily inept. Russia is ostentatiously and brutally violating international law in an effort to humiliate Ukraine and frighten a dissolute West. That is why the Kremlin’s propaganda has gone to such lengths to smear Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky as a drug addict and a neo-Nazi, even though he is a Jew whose grandfather fought the Nazis in World War II, and who lost many other relatives in the Holocaust.
> 
> 
> Until recently, Russian propaganda has worked not only in Russia but also in the West. Beyond the US Republicans who have openly sided with Putin, many Germans have long failed to appreciate that the Soviet victims of Nazism were not all Russian. In fact, Nazism claimed proportionally more Ukrainian victims, and a Ukrainian soldier was the first to open the gates of Auschwitz.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who's the Nazi? | by Sławomir Sierakowski - Project Syndicate
> 
> 
> Sławomir Sierakowski highlights the resemblance of Vladimir Putin's war on Ukraine to Adolf Hitler's destruction of Czechoslovakia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.project-syndicate.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Related:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin's claim of fighting against Ukraine 'neo-Nazis' distorts history, scholars say
> 
> 
> Scholars dismiss the Russian leader's claims as a "mythical use of history." For one: Ukraine overwhelmingly elected a Jewish president, and has a relatively small right-wing movement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.npr.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even Indians are not buying it:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Putin is so totally wrong when accusing Ukrainian leadership of being Nazis
> 
> 
> In the era of ultra-Right nationalism, Putin is trying to play up Slav nationalism, carrying the legacy of the Russians’ deep distrust of the Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theprint.in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @dBSPL
> @RescueRanger
> @The SC
> @Hassan Al-Somal
> @Elias MC
> 
> - - - -
> 
> Wagner Group in spotlight again for all the wrong reasons. Hmm.


Brother all these type of people have Nazi tendencies it doesn't matter if they are Russian or Ukrainian or American. A US instructor on loan to Pakistan under the ATAP/ICITAP program was removed after a neo-Nazi tattoo was found on his left wrist which he covered with a large watch strap. 

_*It's all too common and as I have been to Russia I know all too well- Russia has a serious problem with Skinheads in it's own borders. < Personal Experience*_

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

EU leaders announce intention to collectively rearm in face of Putin threat


Versailles declaration says Russia’s war in Ukraine has heralded ‘tectonic shift in European history’




www.theguardian.com

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## ADIL SHERDIL

IF one really believe what western media is saying than this war should have ended long before. We are not getting any solid reliable information. But people here are acting like they are on the front lines. Thing is why did things get this worse? I mean arming Ukraine to the teeth will bring what to the table. Another unstable country going through guerrilla warfare. Russia can always send in more men. 
Quite ironic or should i say Hypocritical thing is that US and its allies are acting all pious and virtuous. Nothing achieved in 2 weeks Putin is losing . US spend 20+yrs with its NATO allies in Afghanistan and then ran like rats in the darkness of night. Same thing happened in Vietnam. Remember Korea which is still at the state of war thanks to Uncle Sam.

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## RescueRanger

Air Raid sirens 1 min ago- Kyiv Oblast: Bila tserkva, Skvyra, Fastiv.


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## Genghis khan1

US isn’t going to send troop for any ex Soviet states and or Turks. There is no binding obligation.​​The principle of providing assistance​With the invocation of Article 5, Allies can provide any form of assistance they deem necessary to respond to a situation. *This is an individual obligation on each Ally and each Ally is responsible for determining what it deems necessary in the particular circumstances.*

_This assistance is taken forward in concert with other Allies. *It is not necessarily military and depends on the material resources of each country. *It is therefore left to the judgment of each individual member country to determine how it will contribute._ Each country will consult with the other members, bearing in mind that the ultimate aim is to “to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area”.

_At the drafting of Article 5 in the late 1940s, there was consensus on the principle of mutual assistance, but fundamental disagreement on the modalities of implementing this commitment. _*The European participants wanted to ensure that the United States would automatically come to their assistance should one of the signatories come under attack; the United States did not want to make such a pledge*_ and obtained that this be reflected in the wording of Article 5._


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## khansaheeb

The Entire System Is Corrupt No God,No Peace, God Knows That Evil Is Not Combated With Love and Understanding… | Most of the trouble in the world is caused by people wanting to be important (Trump)…(Bill Gates)…(Soros) God said that man is bad, and


Most of the trouble in the world is caused by people wanting to be important (Trump)…(Bill Gates)…(Soros) God said that man is bad, and God said that there will be no world peace. Isaiah 57:20-21 says, “But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire...




ussanews.com
















Peace Negotiator Shot Under Mysterious Circumstances​
Posted on March 7, 2022 by Constitutional Nobody
Ukrainian and Russian negotiators have met three times now to discuss terms for securing a peace deal and to arrange temporary ceasefires for civilian evacuations, but beyond the negotiating table it is beginning to seem doubtful that anyone is taking the talks seriously. The most striking evidence for this is the fact that a negotiator from the Ukrainian delegation was shot in the head in the streets of Kiev under circumstances that remain a mystery.
Ukrainian negotiator executed​Denis Kireev was a former banker who had been appointed to the Ukrainian government’s negotiating team and could be seen seated opposite the Russian delegation in photos taken at the first meeting.
The next time the world saw pictures of Mr. Kireev, he was lying on the streets of Kiev in a pool of blood after having been shot twice in the head in an apparent execution.

Ukrainian politicians and local media quickly began to circulate reports that Kireev had been “liquidated” by intelligence agents from the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) for suspected treason.
Bizarrely, the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense soon followed these reports by announcing that Denis Kireev was actually a Ukrainian intelligence agent who was killed in the line of duty. He was described as a hero in the announcement and condolences are offered to his family.






So was the negotiator a traitor working for the Russians or was her a hero agent working for Ukrainian intelligence? Neither story makes much sense at this point, especially when we consider the details.
What we can be fairly certain about is that Kireev was killed by the SBU in the Ukrainian capital after the first round of negotiations and that Ukrainian sources said that the government had convincing evidence that he was a traitor.

Contradictory stories emerge​If that evidence exists, then why is the Ukrainian government still claiming him as one of their own and why has the SBU itself said nothing about the killing?
A negotiator actually being a Russian asset would be powerful proof for the Ukrainians to show the world that Russia is not negotiating in good faith.
There have been suggestions that Kireev was actually a double agent for the Ukrainians who was mistakenly executed by the SBU, who thought that he really was a traitor.






The more grim possibility is that Kireev was simply shot because the SBU and other forces believed that his peace efforts amounted to treason against the Ukrainian state.
With tensions understandably high, several Ukrainian political figures have already been killed or arrested after being accused of having pro-Russian sympathies.
Unfortunately, we may never have a coherent explanation for Kireev’s death. Whatever the reason for the killing, the death of one negotiator means that there is even more pressure and anxiety hanging over the already challenging and urgent talks.
The post Peace Negotiator Shot Under Mysterious Circumstances appeared first on The GOP Times.
Click this link for the original source of this article.
Author: Scott Moore


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502213511895973893

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## Kambojaric

*John Mearsheimer on why the West is principally responsible for the Ukrainian crisis
The political scientist believes the reckless expansion of NATO provoked Russia*

The war in Ukraine is the most dangerous international conflict since the 1962 Cuban missile crisis. Understanding its root causes is essential if we are to prevent it from getting worse and, instead, to find a way to bring it to a close.

There is no question that Vladimir Putin started the war and is responsible for how it is being waged. But why he did so is another matter. The mainstream view in the West is that he is an irrational, out-of-touch aggressor bent on creating a greater Russia in the mould of the former Soviet Union. Thus, he alone bears full responsibility for the Ukraine crisis.

But that story is wrong. The West, and especially America, is principally responsible for the crisis which began in February 2014. It has now turned into a war that not only threatens to destroy Ukraine, but also has the potential to escalate into a nuclear war between Russia and nato.

The trouble over Ukraine actually started at nato’s Bucharest summit in April 2008, when George W. Bush’s administration pushed the alliance to announce that Ukraine and Georgia “will become members”. Russian leaders responded immediately with outrage, characterising this decision as an existential threat to Russia and vowing to thwart it. According to a respected Russian journalist, Mr Putin “flew into a rage” and warned that “if Ukraine joins nato, it will do so without Crimea and the eastern regions. It will simply fall apart.” America ignored Moscow’s red line, however, and pushed forward to make Ukraine a Western bulwark on Russia’s border. That strategy included two other elements: bringing Ukraine closer to the eu and making it a pro-American democracy.

These efforts eventually sparked hostilities in February 2014, after an uprising (which was supported by America) caused Ukraine’s pro-Russian president, Viktor Yanukovych, to flee the country. In response, Russia took Crimea from Ukraine and helped fuel a civil war that broke out in the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine.

The next major confrontation came in December 2021 and led directly to the current war. The main cause was that Ukraine was becoming a de facto member of nato. The process started in December 2017, when the Trump administration decided to sell Kyiv “defensive weapons”. What counts as “defensive” is hardly clear-cut, however, and these weapons certainly looked offensive to Moscow and its allies in the Donbas region. Other nato countries got in on the act, shipping weapons to Ukraine, training its armed forces and allowing it to participate in joint air and naval exercises. In July 2021, Ukraine and America co-hosted a major naval exercise in the Black Sea region involving navies from 32 countries. Operation Sea Breeze almost provoked Russia to fire at a British naval destroyer that deliberately entered what Russia considers its territorial waters.

The links between Ukraine and America continued growing under the Biden administration. This commitment is reflected throughout an important document—the “us-Ukraine Charter on Strategic Partnership”—that was signed in November by Antony Blinken, America’s secretary of state, and Dmytro Kuleba, his Ukrainian counterpart. The aim was to “underscore … a commitment to Ukraine’s implementation of the deep and comprehensive reforms necessary for full integration into European and Euro-Atlantic institutions.” The document explicitly builds on “the commitments made to strengthen the Ukraine-u.s. strategic partnership by Presidents Zelensky and Biden,” and also emphasises that the two countries will be guided by the “2008 Bucharest Summit Declaration.

Unsurprisingly, Moscow found this evolving situation intolerable and began mobilising its army on Ukraine’s border last spring to signal its resolve to Washington. But it had no effect, as the Biden administration continued to move closer to Ukraine. This led Russia to precipitate a full-blown diplomatic stand-off in December. As Sergey Lavrov, Russia’s foreign minister, put it: “We reached our boiling point.” Russia demanded a written guarantee that Ukraine would never become a part of nato and that the alliance remove the military assets it had deployed in eastern Europe since 1997. The subsequent negotiations failed, as Mr Blinken made clear: “There is no change. There will be no change.” A month later Mr Putin launched an invasion of Ukraine to eliminate the threat he saw from nato.

This interpretation of events is at odds with the prevailing mantra in the West, which portrays nato expansion as irrelevant to the Ukraine crisis, blaming instead Mr Putin’s expansionist goals. According to a recent nato document sent to Russian leaders, “nato is a defensive Alliance and poses no threat to Russia.” The available evidence contradicts these claims. For starters, the issue at hand is not what Western leaders say nato’s purpose or intentions are; it is how Moscow sees nato’s actions.

Mr Putin surely knows that the costs of conquering and occupying large amounts of territory in eastern Europe would be prohibitive for Russia. As he once put it, “Whoever does not miss the Soviet Union has no heart. Whoever wants it back has no brain.” His beliefs about the tight bonds between Russia and Ukraine notwithstanding, trying to take back all of Ukraine would be like trying to swallow a porcupine. Furthermore, Russian policymakers—including Mr Putin—have said hardly anything about conquering new territory to recreate the Soviet Union or build a greater Russia. Rather, since the 2008 Bucharest summit Russian leaders have repeatedly said that they view Ukraine joining nato as an existential threat that must be prevented. As Mr Lavrov noted in January, “the key to everything is the guarantee that nato will not expand eastward.”

Tellingly, Western leaders rarely described Russia as a military threat to Europe before 2014. As America’s former ambassador to Moscow Michael McFaul notes, Mr Putin’s seizure of Crimea was not planned for long; it was an impulsive move in response to the coup that overthrew Ukraine’s pro-Russian leader. In fact, until then, nato expansion was aimed at turning all of Europe into a giant zone of peace, not containing a dangerous Russia. Once the crisis started, however, American and European policymakers could not admit they had provoked it by trying to integrate Ukraine into the West. They declared the real source of the problem was Russia’s revanchism and its desire to dominate if not conquer Ukraine.

My story about the conflict’s causes should not be controversial, given that many prominent American foreign-policy experts have warned against nato expansion since the late 1990s. America’s secretary of defence at the time of the Bucharest summit, Robert Gates, recognised that “trying to bring Georgia and Ukraine into nato was truly overreaching”. Indeed, at that summit, both the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, and the French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, were opposed to moving forward on nato membership for Ukraine because they feared it would infuriate Russia.

The upshot of my interpretation is that we are in an extremely dangerous situation, and Western policy is exacerbating these risks. For Russia’s leaders, what happens in Ukraine has little to do with their imperial ambitions being thwarted; it is about dealing with what they regard as a direct threat to Russia’s future. Mr Putin may have misjudged Russia’s military capabilities, the effectiveness of the Ukrainian resistance and the scope and speed of the Western response, but one should never underestimate how ruthless great powers can be when they believe they are in dire straits. America and its allies, however, are doubling down, hoping to inflict a humiliating defeat on Mr Putin and to maybe even trigger his removal. They are increasing aid to Ukraine while using economic sanctions to inflict massive punishment on Russia, a step that Putin now sees as “akin to a declaration of war”.

America and its allies may be able to prevent a Russian victory in Ukraine, but the country will be gravely damaged, if not dismembered. Moreover, there is a serious threat of escalation beyond Ukraine, not to mention the danger of nuclear war. If the West not only thwarts Moscow on Ukraine’s battlefields, but also does serious, lasting damage to Russia’s economy, it is in effect pushing a great power to the brink. Mr Putin might then turn to nuclear weapons.

At this point it is impossible to know the terms on which this conflict will be settled. But, if we do not understand its deep cause, we will be unable to end it before Ukraine is wrecked and nato ends up in a war with Russia. ■

John J. Mearsheimer is the R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor of Political Science at the University of Chicago.









John Mearsheimer on why the West is principally responsible for the Ukrainian crisis


The political scientist believes the reckless expansion of NATO provoked Russia




www.economist.com

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502570218631143425

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## Kambojaric

Find myself in agreement with Meirsheimer. My only objection would be the use of the "West". It seems that France, Germany and other European countries had enough sense to foresee what further eastward expansion would entail. It's the reckless and arrogant push from the US that caused this mess. Merkel, Sarkozy knew European history and the balance of power order.

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## sammuel

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Bennet is one weird guy. He told Zelensky to surrender flatout. Dude Russia seeks the territory to create novorossiya and push out the Ukrainian ethnics. It is like telling the British to surrender to the germans back in 1939
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian defense official: We appreciate Bennett’s mediation
> 
> 
> Lubkivskyi was positive about Jerusalem and showed understanding of its delicate situation with Moscow, which is the dominant force over Israel’s northern border with Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com



Not true 

Ukraine deny report Bennett recommended yielding to Russian demands​
LVIV, Ukraine, March 12 (Reuters) - A top Ukrainian adviser and an Israeli official on Saturday pushed back against a media report suggesting Israel tried to nudge Ukraine into caving to Russian demands during talks.

Israel has been engaged in diplomatic efforts to try to end the war in Ukraine. Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett has held talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin and spoke by phone with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy.


A senior Israeli official, who requested anonymity due to the sensitivity of the matter, called the report "patently false".

"At no point did Prime Minister Bennett advise President Zelenskiy to take a deal from Putin - because no such deal was offered to Israel for us to be able to do so," the official said.

"Bennett has at no point told Zelenskiy how to act, nor does he have any intention to."









Israel, Ukraine deny report Bennett recommended yielding to Russian demands


A top Ukrainian adviser and an Israeli official on Saturday pushed back against a media report suggesting Israel tried to nudge Ukraine into caving to Russian demands during talks.




www.reuters.com


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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502593032524341249
A video from a pro Russian account claims to show the remains of a wrecked Ukrainian column of vehicles. At 0:36 onwards damage to the van would suggest the convoy came under artillery barrage.



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502213511895973893


Some strong Baghdad Bob vibes there!


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## FairAndUnbiased

Clutch said:


> "_The Fifth Service was responsible for providing Putin with intelligence on political developments in Ukraine on the eve of the invasion. And it looks like two weeks into the war, it finally dawned on Putin that he was completely misled. The department, fearful of his responses, seems to have told Putin what he wanted to hear._"
> .... This is the problem with most draconian authoritarian leaders.... They are often told everything is fine by yes men because honest feedback is feared as there may be reprisal by the dictator who can't hear the critical truth...


seems that a certain self proclaimed 100% western liberal capitalist democracy in South Asia also has this problem.

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## RescueRanger

POM-2 spotted in Ukraine. 

For those that don't know what a POM 2 is, it is a type of mine banned by the Ottawa Treaty since 1997 - here is a video of the mine in operation.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502587539626020873
Turkish citizens have been sheltering in the mosque.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502583296403730432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502368064695934979

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## Foinikas

I'm sorry @LeGenD I had to make it

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502594561838923778

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502594622018793477

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## LeGenD

vi-va said:


> Your parents are South Vietnam refugee, relocated to Hong Kong?


You are mature and better than this, my friend. This was in poor taste.


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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502579861713567751
*50.234568351325066, 30.29534671863335*




* The Air Force Base is less that 30Km from Kyiv city centre. *

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502605989400489990


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## zartosht

jhungary said:


> Well, it depends on what kind of Battlefield Information Support you have. General goes up front is not at all a valid option because General is the person who stand behind the entire operation. When you are in that particular Part of Battlefield, you only able to see how that part of battlefield doing, if you are the guy who plan the whole thing, you need to look at the Big Picture. Which is something you will not get when you are standing at the frontline.
> 
> *It may make sense for Iranian Army or Hezbollah to have the General to be as close to the front as possible because their Battlespace Awareness is most certainly lower than Russia or US or even non-existence*, you don't have a lot of Satellite, ISTAR asset, Joint Intelligence Service asset to provide you with the latest movement on the ground within your AO, maybe you need to move closer to the front, but Russia are very much in a matured state of all those, General Staff don't really need to go up to the front line and risk getting shot for information.
> 
> Professional Force in the East (Russia, China) and West (US UK, France) do not depend on "Morale" factor the general give you, we are not fighting in medieval time when leading up front and charge is one of the valid strategy to attack your enemy. In fact, when a general come into the frontline and started to kick your ***, that's where you know your advance is not going anywhere.
> 
> Think of it like this, there are generally 10-20 Theater General deployed with the troop in battle, that's 20 brains at most to all battle related decision, they lost 4 (or 25-40%) of that brain. That's a big lost in case you are wondering.



well soldier boy. I dont know what army you have served in. But there are very few soldiers who enjoy some officer sitting comfortably behind his desk and send them on dangerous missions.

infact many over ambitious american field seargants were "fragged" in vietnam . (had a grenade thrown into their tent at night) from disgruntled soldiers who didnt want to put their lives on the line on dangerous missions to advance that guys career. Let alone desk jockeys sitting in air conditioned rooms.. 

It is well documented that Russian officers are taking a front line role. regardless of your opinion of the matter. I can assure you with 100% certainty that the fatalities are not because ukies overran russian positions and killed the general in his office. *that is laughable.*

The reason the US can get away with it. Is because they sit an ocean away. with mexico/canada being their border neighbours. And they can afford to pick and choose their battles at the exact time they want. And overwhelm a weak enemy with superior resources.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Air drop of the Russian army on Hostomel, a town in Ukraine's Kyiv Oblast, north-western suburb to the capital city of Kyiv.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502600743295016960


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## gambit

Kambojaric said:


> Find myself in agreement with Meirsheimer. My only objection would be the use of the "West". It seems that France, Germany and other European countries had enough sense to foresee what further eastward expansion would entail. It's the reckless and arrogant push from the US that caused this mess. Merkel, Sarkozy knew European history and the balance of power order.


Then why did Russia not create a successor to the Warsaw Pact to counter NATO?

A country must *PETITION* for NATO membership. Now, you can argue that NATO made offhanded remarks that hinted at membership and that would constitute 'expansion'. But that does not negate the fact that a country must ask for membership and that NATO can refuse. So why did Russia not create a successor to the Warsaw Pact to counter NATO?


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## Windjammer



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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502528863175389186

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502529080859705347

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502529222656638979

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502529440642912257


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502598661141848067


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502588622503288832


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502553513112612865

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502556442187943937

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## jhungary

zartosht said:


> well soldier boy. I dont know what army you have served in. But there are very few soldiers who enjoy some officer sitting comfortably behind his desk and send them on dangerous missions.
> 
> infact many over ambitious american field seargants were "fragged" in vietnam . (had a grenade thrown into their tent at night) from disgruntled soldiers who didnt want to put their lives on the line on dangerous missions to advance that guys career. Let alone desk jockeys sitting in air conditioned rooms..
> 
> It is well documented that Russian officers are taking a front line role. regardless of your opinion of the matter. I can assure you with 100% certainty that the fatalities are not because ukies overran russian positions and killed the general in his office. *that is laughable.*
> 
> The reason the US can get away with it. Is because they sit an ocean away. with mexico/canada being their border neighbours. And they can afford to pick and choose their battles at the exact time they want. And overwhelm a weak enemy with superior resources.


First of all, I *COMPLETELY* agree with what you said, Officer should *NEVER* be sitting in the office while people under his command fighting. 

But then you are not talking about a company grade officer or even NCO (in this case, sergeant you mentioned) you are talking about a *FLAG OFFICER*, now, I don't know what you know about military, and I am not in a mood or at all interested in argue with your "version" of reality. I mean, if you think losing "Generals" (Bear in mind, multiple, with s) is normal, well, I can only say you should not be in the military at all.

I mean, do you have enough general to accompanied every company in operation? I mean, maybe for you, everyone is a general, but for most military, it's 1 general to roughly 10,000 troop. So if you have any sense of how military work, you would know what you are saying is impossible, 

But as I said, if you want to live in your "version" of reality, I don't really mind, just don't call me on it, I have no interest in discussing with you what you think and what we really do.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502614972756598787


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502616426783416320


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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> First of all, I *COMPLETELY* agree with what you said, Officer should *NEVER* be sitting in the office while people under his command fighting.
> 
> But then you are not talking about a company grade officer or even NCO (in this case, sergeant you mentioned) you are talking about a *FLAG OFFICER*, now, I don't know what you know about military, and I am not in a mood or at all interested in argue with your "version" of reality. I mean, if you think losing "Generals" (Bear in mind, multiple, with s) is normal, well, I can only say you should not be in the military at all.
> 
> I mean, do you have enough general to accompanied every company in operation? I mean, maybe for you, everyone is a general, but for most military, it's 1 general to roughly 10,000 troop. So if you have any sense of how military work, you would know what you are saying is impossible,
> 
> But as I said, if you want to live in your "version" of reality, I don't really mind, just don't call me on it, I have no interest in discussing with you what you think and what we really do.



Russia has a lot of generals.

In US I know you legislatively limited their number to 231

Russia has certainly more than that


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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Russia has a lot of generals.
> 
> In US I know you legislatively limited their number to 231
> 
> Russia has more than double of that


Russia have a bigger force than we do, and we don't use military personnel for civilian work (ie anything above JCS is civilian while it would be held by a general in similar posting in Russia, ie all the secretary, under secretary, all the homeland security council member, national security council member)

By the way, Russia have between 15 to 20 general in this AO. That's from the number of unit and group deployed, the extra 5 figure is on the staff side, which is as I said, they would be civilian in the US

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502597484677406723


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502619211750912000
The new face of warfare. People sitting behind a desk with a joystick,bringing death and destruction on live. Amazing and frightening at the same time.

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## TNT

How can reserves of a country be taken like this? I mean it belongs to the ppl of russia and is their money. But i guess the russians can make it even because Russia have around 400 billion of external debt as well, so Russia is justified not to pay any of that, they are also banned from the swift so no way either. I think Russia will also not pay lease of the planes and other stuff. Seems the west is shooting itself in the foot with these sanctions.

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## Shakuni Mama

Kambojaric said:


> Find myself in agreement with Meirsheimer. My only objection would be the use of the "West". It seems that France, Germany and other European countries had enough sense to foresee what further eastward expansion would entail. It's the reckless and arrogant push from the US that caused this mess. Merkel, Sarkozy knew European history and the balance of power order.



Historically Indians are ardent supporters of Russia and even now our Nation will try to help as small as we can do to Russia but as an individual I can say that it was not the best thing to do by Russia. Not only they are seeing demonstrations against it in Russia but no Nations has a right to attack other country just because he wanted to join another bloc. It is Russian mistake that they let out Ukraine out of its influence but how can they influence a country with its own broken currency ? I did not even heard about Zelensky before the start of the war. He might be a comedian but the way he acted during the whole scenario shows he has man of steels whereas he was asked twice to be evacuated. He consolidated Ukrainians as one people and that's what Russia did not expect. I can feel the pain of Ukrainians dying at the hands of Russia, my hearts goes out to Women,Kids and old people who has been forced to leave their country, their home and they have lost everything. Putin not only killed Ukrainians but he killed humanity as well. One should give pain to other which other can be able to withhold. Whatever we are seeing in Ukraine are the will power of common Ukrainian who does not accept the hegemony of Russia and are ready to die defending their land rather than living the life of a slave under Russia occupation.

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## RescueRanger

If anyone is on any Ukranian telegram groups / discord etc please can you kindly share these guides I have made for lay-responders / civilians caught up in this nightmare.

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## TNT

Kambojaric said:


> *John Mearsheimer on why the West is principally responsible for the Ukrainian crisis
> The political scientist believes the reckless expansion of NATO provoked Russia*
> 
> The war in Ukraine is the most dangerous international conflict since the 1962 Cuban missile crisis. Understanding its root causes is essential if we are to prevent it from getting worse and, instead, to find a way to bring it to a close.
> 
> There is no question that Vladimir Putin started the war and is responsible for how it is being waged. But why he did so is another matter. The mainstream view in the West is that he is an irrational, out-of-touch aggressor bent on creating a greater Russia in the mould of the former Soviet Union. Thus, he alone bears full responsibility for the Ukraine crisis.
> 
> But that story is wrong. The West, and especially America, is principally responsible for the crisis which began in February 2014. It has now turned into a war that not only threatens to destroy Ukraine, but also has the potential to escalate into a nuclear war between Russia and nato.
> 
> The trouble over Ukraine actually started at nato’s Bucharest summit in April 2008, when George W. Bush’s administration pushed the alliance to announce that Ukraine and Georgia “will become members”. Russian leaders responded immediately with outrage, characterising this decision as an existential threat to Russia and vowing to thwart it. According to a respected Russian journalist, Mr Putin “flew into a rage” and warned that “if Ukraine joins nato, it will do so without Crimea and the eastern regions. It will simply fall apart.” America ignored Moscow’s red line, however, and pushed forward to make Ukraine a Western bulwark on Russia’s border. That strategy included two other elements: bringing Ukraine closer to the eu and making it a pro-American democracy.
> 
> These efforts eventually sparked hostilities in February 2014, after an uprising (which was supported by America) caused Ukraine’s pro-Russian president, Viktor Yanukovych, to flee the country. In response, Russia took Crimea from Ukraine and helped fuel a civil war that broke out in the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine.
> 
> The next major confrontation came in December 2021 and led directly to the current war. The main cause was that Ukraine was becoming a de facto member of nato. The process started in December 2017, when the Trump administration decided to sell Kyiv “defensive weapons”. What counts as “defensive” is hardly clear-cut, however, and these weapons certainly looked offensive to Moscow and its allies in the Donbas region. Other nato countries got in on the act, shipping weapons to Ukraine, training its armed forces and allowing it to participate in joint air and naval exercises. In July 2021, Ukraine and America co-hosted a major naval exercise in the Black Sea region involving navies from 32 countries. Operation Sea Breeze almost provoked Russia to fire at a British naval destroyer that deliberately entered what Russia considers its territorial waters.
> 
> The links between Ukraine and America continued growing under the Biden administration. This commitment is reflected throughout an important document—the “us-Ukraine Charter on Strategic Partnership”—that was signed in November by Antony Blinken, America’s secretary of state, and Dmytro Kuleba, his Ukrainian counterpart. The aim was to “underscore … a commitment to Ukraine’s implementation of the deep and comprehensive reforms necessary for full integration into European and Euro-Atlantic institutions.” The document explicitly builds on “the commitments made to strengthen the Ukraine-u.s. strategic partnership by Presidents Zelensky and Biden,” and also emphasises that the two countries will be guided by the “2008 Bucharest Summit Declaration.
> 
> Unsurprisingly, Moscow found this evolving situation intolerable and began mobilising its army on Ukraine’s border last spring to signal its resolve to Washington. But it had no effect, as the Biden administration continued to move closer to Ukraine. This led Russia to precipitate a full-blown diplomatic stand-off in December. As Sergey Lavrov, Russia’s foreign minister, put it: “We reached our boiling point.” Russia demanded a written guarantee that Ukraine would never become a part of nato and that the alliance remove the military assets it had deployed in eastern Europe since 1997. The subsequent negotiations failed, as Mr Blinken made clear: “There is no change. There will be no change.” A month later Mr Putin launched an invasion of Ukraine to eliminate the threat he saw from nato.
> 
> This interpretation of events is at odds with the prevailing mantra in the West, which portrays nato expansion as irrelevant to the Ukraine crisis, blaming instead Mr Putin’s expansionist goals. According to a recent nato document sent to Russian leaders, “nato is a defensive Alliance and poses no threat to Russia.” The available evidence contradicts these claims. For starters, the issue at hand is not what Western leaders say nato’s purpose or intentions are; it is how Moscow sees nato’s actions.
> 
> Mr Putin surely knows that the costs of conquering and occupying large amounts of territory in eastern Europe would be prohibitive for Russia. As he once put it, “Whoever does not miss the Soviet Union has no heart. Whoever wants it back has no brain.” His beliefs about the tight bonds between Russia and Ukraine notwithstanding, trying to take back all of Ukraine would be like trying to swallow a porcupine. Furthermore, Russian policymakers—including Mr Putin—have said hardly anything about conquering new territory to recreate the Soviet Union or build a greater Russia. Rather, since the 2008 Bucharest summit Russian leaders have repeatedly said that they view Ukraine joining nato as an existential threat that must be prevented. As Mr Lavrov noted in January, “the key to everything is the guarantee that nato will not expand eastward.”
> 
> Tellingly, Western leaders rarely described Russia as a military threat to Europe before 2014. As America’s former ambassador to Moscow Michael McFaul notes, Mr Putin’s seizure of Crimea was not planned for long; it was an impulsive move in response to the coup that overthrew Ukraine’s pro-Russian leader. In fact, until then, nato expansion was aimed at turning all of Europe into a giant zone of peace, not containing a dangerous Russia. Once the crisis started, however, American and European policymakers could not admit they had provoked it by trying to integrate Ukraine into the West. They declared the real source of the problem was Russia’s revanchism and its desire to dominate if not conquer Ukraine.
> 
> My story about the conflict’s causes should not be controversial, given that many prominent American foreign-policy experts have warned against nato expansion since the late 1990s. America’s secretary of defence at the time of the Bucharest summit, Robert Gates, recognised that “trying to bring Georgia and Ukraine into nato was truly overreaching”. Indeed, at that summit, both the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, and the French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, were opposed to moving forward on nato membership for Ukraine because they feared it would infuriate Russia.
> 
> The upshot of my interpretation is that we are in an extremely dangerous situation, and Western policy is exacerbating these risks. For Russia’s leaders, what happens in Ukraine has little to do with their imperial ambitions being thwarted; it is about dealing with what they regard as a direct threat to Russia’s future. Mr Putin may have misjudged Russia’s military capabilities, the effectiveness of the Ukrainian resistance and the scope and speed of the Western response, but one should never underestimate how ruthless great powers can be when they believe they are in dire straits. America and its allies, however, are doubling down, hoping to inflict a humiliating defeat on Mr Putin and to maybe even trigger his removal. They are increasing aid to Ukraine while using economic sanctions to inflict massive punishment on Russia, a step that Putin now sees as “akin to a declaration of war”.
> 
> America and its allies may be able to prevent a Russian victory in Ukraine, but the country will be gravely damaged, if not dismembered. Moreover, there is a serious threat of escalation beyond Ukraine, not to mention the danger of nuclear war. If the West not only thwarts Moscow on Ukraine’s battlefields, but also does serious, lasting damage to Russia’s economy, it is in effect pushing a great power to the brink. Mr Putin might then turn to nuclear weapons.
> 
> At this point it is impossible to know the terms on which this conflict will be settled. But, if we do not understand its deep cause, we will be unable to end it before Ukraine is wrecked and nato ends up in a war with Russia. ■
> 
> John J. Mearsheimer is the R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor of Political Science at the University of Chicago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John Mearsheimer on why the West is principally responsible for the Ukrainian crisis
> 
> 
> The political scientist believes the reckless expansion of NATO provoked Russia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.economist.com



This is something that memebers with abit of brains have been saying here but the americans and their cheerleaders say otherwise. Its always been the US that wanted this war to happen.

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502588459797692424
This thread from the ICRC in Ukraine is worth reading for anyone gleefully cheering the conflict on either side of the divide. People running out of life saving medicine, 3/4 hours of generator fuel remaining, food running out, water running out, 65 people trapped in a basement!

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## Avicenna

gambit said:


> Then why did Russia not create a successor to the Warsaw Pact to counter NATO?
> 
> A country must *PETITION* for NATO membership. Now, you can argue that NATO made offhanded remarks that hinted at membership and that would constitute 'expansion'. But that does not negate the fact that a country must ask for membership and that NATO can refuse. So why did Russia not create a successor to the Warsaw Pact to counter NATO?








Why are Americans talking about Ukrainian internal politics like this?









Victoria Nuland - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





For your listening and reading pleasure.

And most of all, education.

@Kambojaric


----------



## Paul2

Shakuni Mama said:


> Historically Indians are ardent supporters of Russia and even now our Nation will try to help as small as we can do to Russia but as an individual I can say that it was not the best thing to do by Russia. Not only they are seeing demonstrations against it in Russia but no Nations has a right to attack other country just because he wanted to join another bloc. It is Russian mistake that they let out Ukraine out of its influence but how can they influence a country with its own broken currency ? I did not even heard about Zelensky before the start of the war. He might be a comedian but the way he acted during the whole scenario shows he has man of steels whereas he was asked twice to be evacuated. He consolidated Ukrainians as one people and that's what Russia did not expect. I can feel the pain of Ukrainians dying at the hands of Russia, my hearts goes out to Women,Kids and old people who has been forced to leave their country, their home and they have lost everything. Putin not only killed Ukrainians but he killed humanity as well. One should give pain to other which other can be able to withhold. Whatever we are seeing in Ukraine are the will power of common Ukrainian who does not accept the hegemony of Russia and are ready to die defending their land rather than living the life of a slave under Russia occupation.



India is definitely in Russian camp despite now switching to the US military equipment.

From my 2 sources with diplomats, and engineering contractors, Russians been trying to wrestle Pakistan from the US, and China axis for at least 3 years since Modi made his first solid overtures to the West.

Russians are meeting Pakistani elites, and I don't know what they are promising you.









Russian woman jailed for trying to enter Diplomatic Enclave


She was arrested earlier in Multan after she was found roaming around the city and entering restricted areas.



www.dawn.com





Russia has no real use for Pakistan. The one, and only reason thing they want from you is to spook India, and keep it in Russian camp.

I cannot wrap my head around in just what way they can bring Russian gas to Pakistan physically, and how can they make it cheaper than energy from the gulf, which is already coming super cheap.

For coming future Pakistan needs to develop its own gas, your teratons of unexploited coal reserves, TAPI, and regularise Iranian energy supplies (which despite official denial, are very evident on satellite photos of huge lines of tankers loaded with Iranian fuel on the border)

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## SIPRA

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502588459797692424
> This thread from the ICRC in Ukraine is worth reading for anyone gleefully cheering the conflict on either side of the divide. People running out of life saving medicine, 3/4 hours of generator fuel remaining, food running out, water running out, 65 people trapped in a basement!



Well. That is how life of human beings have been, since thousands of years, when they started living in form of communities. Since those immemorial time till date, we have failed to devise appropriate mechanisms, by which we can settle our trans-community and trans-state disputes in an amicable and peaceful manner, on the principle of justice and fair play. That is our collective main ailment. No escape in sight.

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## vi-va

LeGenD said:


> You are mature and better than this, my friend. This was in poor taste.


He is not Chinese, he should not carry Chinese flag.

edit:
I made mistake. He uses China as location, not nationality.


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## kingQamaR

zartosht said:


> well soldier boy. I dont know what army you have served in. But there are very few soldiers who enjoy some officer sitting comfortably behind his desk and send them on dangerous missions.
> 
> infact many over ambitious american field seargants were "fragged" in vietnam . (had a grenade thrown into their tent at night) from disgruntled soldiers who didnt want to put their lives on the line on dangerous missions to advance that guys career. Let alone desk jockeys sitting in air conditioned rooms..
> 
> It is well documented that Russian officers are taking a front line role. regardless of your opinion of the matter. I can assure you with 100% certainty that the fatalities are not because ukies overran russian positions and killed the general in his office. *that is laughable.*
> 
> The reason the US can get away with it. Is because they sit an ocean away. with mexico/canada being their border neighbours. And they can afford to pick and choose their battles at the exact time they want. And overwhelm a weak enemy with superior resources.



The fact that Russians generals are in the front line ...shows that the whole thing is crumbling 

And Why do you give these killers such attention, feels almost like a eulogy to your great Russian leaders. Gerasimov was overseeing the most vile human rights abuses imaginable in Syria and Chechnya. It's good to rid the World of types like him, let's forget him as quickly as possible.

are we sure they aren't getting shot by their own side for failure.

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## Meengla

Kambojaric said:


> Find myself in agreement with Meirsheimer. My only objection would be the use of the "West". It seems that France, Germany and other European countries had enough sense to foresee what further eastward expansion would entail. It's the reckless and arrogant push from the US that caused this mess. Merkel, Sarkozy knew European history and the balance of power order.



Yup.
There is no 'West' as people often used the term when it comes to geopolitics. Just a few hundreds giant businesses, in-bed media, and paid-for politicians working together in America under various guises and governments. And war is big business in America. Untold billions gets transferred to some hands. Europeans have to get along. America carries big sticks and big bucks and can even afford to lose what may happen thousands of miles from its shores. Even the two Great Wars didn't affect America's mainland much--on the contrary, propelled America's rise.
As I said above, if today America decides to stop this war even after offering some concessions to Russia then all the Zelenskys and all the Western leaders and media will forget about the war and democracy and freedom for Ukraine blah blah. There is no Western narrative here except that of the vested interests in Washington DC.

*This may be the first war in human history where humanity is under grave threat from what a losing side might do....*

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## sur

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502213511895973893


When and by whom a claim of "*two days*" was made? I may have missed it, help me to the genuine source of Two-Day claim. *Or else it's a false claim*.



But I did not miss the "*short war*" claim by US about Iraq, that officially *lasted almost 9 years* and from Iraqi perspective, war has yet not ended, it's still an ongoing struggle:

(source)
Feb 7, 2003: Rumsfeld ups war length estimate: “_It could last…six days, six weeks. I doubt six months._”
Nov 14, 2002: Rumsfeld handicaps war length: “_Five days or five weeks or five months, but it certainly isn’t going to last any longer than that._”

Rumsfeld: It Would Be A Short War​Link#1 = https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rumsfeld-it-would-be-a-short-war/
Link#2 = https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/30/abuse-and-torture-us-reacts-to-donald-rumsfelds-death



So by applying the rule of equality, US being more advanced than Rus and that 30+ NATO countries were not backing Iraq like they do Ukraine, *I'd give Rus more than 9 years* before saying that they performed any poorer than US/NATO.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502644762016468994

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502004861734371331


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## Oom

I am happy Russian equipment is being destroyed left right and centre and their armoured thrust was a complete failure. 

Would be wise for the Indians to learn a lesson or two and drop their cold start fallacies. Ukraine doesn’t have nukes either, Pakistan does

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## dBSPL

BREAKING 
The International Committee of the Red Cross warns of a shortage of food, medicine and gas supplies for heating in Mariupol.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502635747467309061

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## maverick1977

Russians are claiming to have uncovered Bio weapon grade material from Ukraines Bio lab funded by US ?????? Has anyone heard anything like this?

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502633561161146371


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## sur

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502004861734371331


If Europe/US were any sincere about Ukraine, they would be talking about "ceasefire", negotiations etc.
Instead they are heard talking about supplying more and more weapons and heard encouraging Ukrainians to fight. 

That is evidence who is the instigator.

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## dBSPL

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502647714919723013


Mehmet Uce, the imam of the mosque, said that the mosque was not directly targeted. He said they were stocking up on food in the mosque before the siege began. 84 people, 34 of whom are children, are protected in the mosque. The mosque does not have a historical feature. It was built in 2005 in memory of Suleiman the Magnificent and his wife Hürrem Sultan. There is also a Turkish-Islamic Cultural Center inside the mosque. It is an organization that helps people in need in the region and survives with the donations of philanthropists.

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## sur

dBSPL said:


> Mehmet Uce, the imam of the mosque, said that the mosque was not directly targeted. He said they were stocking up on food in the mosque before the siege began. 84 people, 34 of whom are children, are protected in the mosque. The mosque does not have a historical feature. It was built in 2005 in memory of Suleiman the Magnificent and his wife Hürrem Sultan. There is also a Turkish-Islamic Cultural Center inside the mosque. It is an organization that helps people in need in the region and survives with the donations of philanthropists.


That was a deliberate inflammatory tweet by *embassy *to provoke Muslims and Turkey against Russians.

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## dBSPL

sur said:


> That was a deliberate inflammatory tweet by American *embassy *to provoke Muslims and Turkey against Russians.
> That's what they are good at.


I don't want to take the subject out of context by sharing every detail here. But there is a very intense effort to move Turkey away from the neutral position. There is both diplomatic pressure and psychological operations, as you can see in such news.

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## LeGenD

I have removed some offtopic posts.

Members are advised to stay on topic.

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## Muhammed45

maverick1977 said:


> View attachment 823494
> 
> 
> 
> Russians are claiming to have uncovered Bio weapon grade material from Ukraines Bio lab funded by US ?????? Has anyone heard anything like this?
> 
> 
> View attachment 823498


Ukrainians have been USA's laboratory mice for bio weapons. There are several reports indicating that USA abused Ukrainians. The increasing diseases among thousands of Ukrainians well recorded in the country's health Ministry.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502656110813188100

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502644976001425409

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## Clutch

Avicenna said:


> Why are Americans talking about Ukrainian internal politics like this?


Nuland and the Americans instigated a coup in Ukraine ....



Foinikas said:


> I'm sorry @LeGenD I had to make it
> 
> View attachment 823449


Baghdad Bob meets Moscow Mark..... "We are totally winning, look away, nothing to see here!".

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## Muhammed45



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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502415478748237833

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## Jugger

dBSPL said:


> Mehmet Uce, the imam of the mosque, said that the mosque was not directly targeted. He said they were stocking up on food in the mosque before the siege began. 84 people, 34 of whom are children, are protected in the mosque. The mosque does not have a historical feature. It was built in 2005 in memory of Suleiman the Magnificent and his wife Hürrem Sultan. There is also a Turkish-Islamic Cultural Center inside the mosque. It is an organization that helps people in need in the region and survives with the donations of philanthropists.


OMG this mosque is so beautiful....!
Wonderful.

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## LeGenD

Muhammed45 said:


> Ukrainians have been USA's laboratory mice for bio weapons. There are several reports indicating that USA abused Ukrainians. The increasing diseases among thousands of Ukrainians well recorded in the country's health Ministry.


No, this is false.









Social Media Posts Misrepresent U.S.-Ukraine Threat Reduction Program - FactCheck.org


The U.S. Department of Defense's Biological Threat Reduction Program has provided technical support to improve and protect Ukraine's public health laboratories. Social media posts, however, falsely claim the program created "bioweapons labs" that are being targeted by Russian forces as part of...




www.factcheck.org













PolitiFact - China repeats false claim that U.S has biolabs in Ukraine


China’s government is amplifying debunked claims about non-existent U.S. biological weapons labs in Ukraine, bringing th




www.politifact.com













Fact Check: No, There Are No U.S.-Funded Bioweapons Labs in Ukraine


False claims are going viral on social media.




factcheck.thedispatch.com













Russia Makes Crazy Claim That U.S. Is Training Birds To Spread A Ukrainian Bioweapon (Updated)


The Kremlin appears to be ramping up its disinformation campaign to a totally absurd degree as the conflict in Ukraine drags on.




www.thedrive.com

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502654368725835778

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## sammuel

~

Still waiting for this to be confirmed , but this is what the Ukranian news site is reporting :

Zelensky calls Jerusalem possible place to meet with Putin​
President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky called Israel a possible place to meet with the Russian president to end the war.

"We spoke with Bennett. I told him that I consider it wrong, unconstructive to meet in Ukraine, Russia and Belarus. These are not the points where we can find understanding and stop the war. I'm not talking about technical meetings, but about a meeting of leaders. Do I think that Israel can be such a land, and especially Jerusalem? I think yes," Zelensky said during a meeting with foreign media representatives in Kyiv on Saturday.

He also said that he had a positive attitude towards the mediation of Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett in the settlement of peace issues between Ukraine and Russia.

"On Israel and Prime Minister Bennett's mediation. We are generally positive. I am personally positive about anyone's mediation... But I don't call Bennett 'anyone' because I think he can play an important role. First of all, because Israel is an important country. It has a lot of history and parallels. It has a large migration of Jews from Ukraine, Russia... I think that historically it is very good to have such mediation," Zelensky said.

He also said that Israel should be among the security guarantors for Ukraine.









Zelensky calls Jerusalem possible place to meet with Putin


President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky called Israel a possible place to meet with the Russian president to end the war.




ua.interfax.com.ua

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## kingQamaR

Muhammed45 said:


> Ukrainians have been USA's laboratory mice for bio weapons. There are several reports indicating that USA abused Ukrainians. The increasing diseases among thousands of Ukrainians well recorded in the country's health Ministry.



Every country has biolabs to deal and study diseases, and many countries work together. Just like even the biolab in China had US and France co-operation until at one point China went in alone. That said, a biolab studying diseases is not the same thing as a weapons biolab. Even if US had a weapons biolab, Ukraine would be the last place anyone would put it. They might as well as make a weapons biolab in Putin's basement while at it.

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## Baghial

NEW TACTICS OF IVAN!









ukranie tractor bridgade wont steal it?✔✔✔✔✔✔✔✔


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502542757964890114

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502664863662936069


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## Baghial

DUCK SEASON IS FULLY OPEN !



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502477956215713794

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502648195108818944

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## Amli

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501843321425125377


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## Hassan Al-Somal

The Neo Nazi Azov regiment is taking a heavy beating in Mariupol. The central command of the Ukrainian armed forces has sent a distress call to Zelensky about the situation in Mariupol.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502650922836631561

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## Muhammed45

kingQamaR said:


> Every country has biolabs to deal and study diseases, and many countries work together. Just like even the biolab in China had US and France co-operation until at one point China went in alone. That said, a biolab studying diseases is not the same thing as a weapons biolab. Even if US had a weapons biolab, Ukraine would be the last place anyone would put it. They might as well as make a weapons biolab in Putin's basement while at it.


Americans will surely deny it. But we all know that they attacked Afghanistan on a false claim, they attacked Iraq for non existent WMDs. 

Call me a conspiracy theorist, Americans have been working on different genetics of different races from different countries in order make specialized bio weapons for the target nations. Slavs are no exception. 

Russia did the best to invade Ukraine, the traitors like Zelensky or Pinochet of chile are good at destroying countries in favor of American imperialists. Hope they remove American installer puppet.


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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502664863662936069


These Russian POWs may become a liability for Ukraine if they are not able to hold ground in a seige. How are the Ukrainians supposed to feed and detain these POWs in this situation? Killing these POWs will also be an international PR nightmare

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502670357970440200


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## Hassan Al-Somal



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## Jim Robinson

Wood said:


> These Russian POWs may become a liability for Ukraine if they are not able to hold ground in a seige. How are the Ukrainians supposed to feed and detain these POWs in this situation? Killing these POWs will also be an international PR nightmare


They would be killed as Putin has also asked his soldiers to go for a kill especially the volunteers.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Muhammed45 said:


> Americans will surely deny it. But we all know that they attacked Afghanistan on a false claim, they attacked Iraq for non existent WMDs.
> 
> Call me a conspiracy theorist, Americans have been working on different genetics of different races from different countries in order make specialized bio weapons for the target nations. Slavs are no exception.
> 
> Russia did the best to invade Ukraine, the traitors like Zelensky or Pinochet of chile are good at destroying countries in favor of American imperialists. Hope they remove American installer puppet.



I agree with you they were mislead into Afghanistan to dry their coffers empty it was a certified bait and it was never a fluke but the Iraq one was entirely on Bush junior trying to revenge bush senior it was more or less personal family stuff hence they came up with something.

Think about it for once from a stragetic point of view what difference would Afghanistan do stragetically win or lose to the worldwide picture? Exactly pretty much nothing meaning these who baited them into Afghanistan knew how notoriously difficult this place was and a black-hole that sucks money into nothingness with difficult terrain hack the Soviet union collapsed here. Afghanistan is not graveyard of empires only from mythical views but it is bulit like one as it is extremely difficult to navigate logistically hence the Americans have been baited and rivals were benefitting from them being stuck and I mean folks like China, Russia and to be fairly honest the whole Asian continent was indirectly benefitting from them being stuck there but Trump and his team were the first once to figure out this whole game but it was already to late by the time they figured out as their foes has reached the targetted goal which was their rise. China was silently arming the Taliban thru out these years.

Biden Admin also understood this trick and pulled out and some people blamed them but that was probably one of the most levelled headed and smartest stragetical decision they made. Afghanistan is a wasteland back water. Lose or win it added nothing to them they were just stuck in a timeloop burning thru 20-trillion USD

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502614972756598787

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502667856772747266

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502667858010066945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502667859180376066

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502667860283375619

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502667861432614924

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502667862611222531
Former US Army General in Europe

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502656351285170177

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502672816625401865

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502663786309853191


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502667863760547844

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502667864842588165

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502667865970851840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502667867162132482

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Think of what is coming? 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502663051815931907


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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502676100710809601


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502672848829259779


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## TheNoob

Wood said:


> View attachment 823398
> 
> 
> View attachment 823399
> 
> 
> View attachment 823400
> 
> 
> View attachment 823401
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501123330262380551



So, where does this put all the americans who supported like bloodthirsty hyenas regarding every war america waged.

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## F-22Raptor

Now seen several assessments that Russia does not have enough troops to occupy Mauripol or any of the larger cities. Former 3 star General of US Army Europe Mark Hertling also agrees with that assessment.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502580374282678273

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

The fight for Mariupol is the toughest of all the other areas and the most intense

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502675905528963078

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502680019386212365

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## kingQamaR

Muhammed45 said:


> Americans will surely deny it. But we all know that they attacked Afghanistan on a false claim, they attacked Iraq for non existent WMDs.
> 
> Call me a conspiracy theorist, Americans have been working on different genetics of different races from different countries in order make specialized bio weapons for the target nations. Slavs are no exception.
> 
> Russia did the best to invade Ukraine, the traitors like Zelensky or Pinochet of chile are good at destroying countries in favor of American imperialists. Hope they remove American installer puppet.



So far, 3 dead Russians generals , thousands dead injured pows in Ukraine custody. All because of Ukrainian bogey man pm in kiev sounds so ridiculous of him putin attacked , why simply Putin not send a hit squad to do the job avoid a Iraq Afghanistan war now his army is facing USA enters illegal wars In Iraq and Afghanistan far away from its shores when they became a problem Americans packed up went home. What is Russian exit strategy now, a mess it created on its own door step!


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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502674059800326152


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502639162314403852

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## Baghial

WHAT PLANS DOES IVAN HAS FOR........







Good luck to Putin with that. Stalin built the Ukrainian metro to with stand nuclear attack and double as a huge bomb shelter. The Soviets dug tunnels and detonated nukes to pick a depth for the metro. They went with over 100 meters deep. It’s the deepest in the world.


a reminder to IVAN.

Putin imagining that the capture of Kyiv will finish the job is exactly like Napoleon assuming taking Moscow would ensure a Russian capitulation. And now Kremlin panicking they may have to attack civilian population in big cities. Not in their plans


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## sur

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502674194747830280


Target was *not school*. Rather things like these parked in school's playground:

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## Hassan Al-Somal



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## Amli

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502684616720896001


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502676157984124930

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502452881177329666

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502452884704837633

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## Madni Bappa

Avicenna said:


> Why are Americans talking about Ukrainian internal politics like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Victoria Nuland - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For your listening and reading pleasure.
> 
> And most of all, education.
> 
> @Kambojaric


Bet he didn't reply to this post 😂


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502687897706659840

Time to bury the Russian stock market.

The New York Stock Exchange never closed during WW2.

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## Madni Bappa

sur said:


> That was a deliberate inflammatory tweet by *embassy *to provoke Muslims and Turkey against Russians.


So they know non white and muslim world is not with them?
I think so.

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## Wood

Must watch to get an idea of how messed up Putin's Russia is for political opposition. Makes it impossible for anyone to topple him

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## Madni Bappa

kingQamaR said:


> Every country has biolabs to deal and study diseases, and many countries work together. Just like even the biolab in China had US and France co-operation until at one point China went in alone. That said, a biolab studying diseases is not the same thing as a weapons biolab. Even if US had a weapons biolab, Ukraine would be the last place anyone would put it. They might as well as make a weapons biolab in Putin's basement while at it.


But 26 of them spread out in Ukraine alone??


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## sur

Before propagandists pass this on as a Rusi soldier.
Here's a Ukrainian soldier chained to a tree.
It had to be chained by Ukrainians themselves because he's holding his anti-tank weapon. Probably was reluctant to fight.
He was probably not a POW.




Spoiler: Ukr Chained Their Soldier to Tree - Dead body





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502065078568374277









More treatment of Ukr soldiers at hands of their own (probably disgruntled civilians?):


Spoiler: Physical beating of Ukr soldiers by civilians





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502086648120627205


Comments translated what's being said ( @vostok or any other who knows the language, could you help verify translation?) :










What!! Ukrainians kill children?
Western media told us otherwise!

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## Madni Bappa

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> View attachment 823524


@f-22 mighty Ukraine defeated the measley Russia

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502689396293787653

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## Paul2

Ukraine has local dominance, and numerical superiority in a few direction, but not enough concentrations, and SAM cover to advance.

Freeing up offensive capacity is essential for breaking the stalemate.

If you think it up, even while they do have numeric superiority along the frontlines, the enemy strongpoints are not challenged enough to make the enemy to rout from them.

For as long as frontlines are stretched, Ukraine will not be able to turn numerical superiority to advantage.

Russia been turned to defensive only near Kiyv, where Ukraine has solid numeric advantage, supply lines, air defence, etc.

Kharkiv is a real stalemate because Russia overconcentrated soft units there, and nobody to take on a decisive assault. Ukrainian veteran units go out of the city every day, and attack Russian camps, artillery, supplies etc.

South, and southeast is where Russia has manoeuvre advantage due to territory control. As I said before, there is very good chance for counteroffensive, and cutoff there.

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502689396293787653


This is all part of Putin's plan

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502696746496974851

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## Amli

Russian army hit civilians!!! Ah no, this is the ukranian army that hit Donetsk. Nobody cares..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502689543178395650

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502700119791185928
Trent worked in the US DOD over 30 years

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## coffee_cup

F-22Raptor said:


> Now seen several assessments that Russia does not have enough troops to occupy Mauripol or any of the larger cities. Former 3 star General of US Army Europe Mark Hertling also agrees with that assessment.



And if in few days time they did capture Mariupol or some other cities, would you stop spreading fake "facts" here?

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## Pappa Alpha

coffee_cup said:


> And if in few days time they did capture Mariupol or some other cities, would you stop spreading fake "facts" here?


"They haven't occupied any large city so far, haha"

a few days later...

"They have only occupied one large city so far, haha"

a few days later...

"They have only occupied two large cities so far, haha"

a few days later...

"They have not entered Kiev yet, haha"

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502701731746099200
This Russian officer recognizes what's up. And those propagandists humiliated him. No respect whatsoever

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## Amli

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502702937700814849


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## Jim Robinson

Madni Bappa said:


> So they know non white and muslim world is not with them?
> I think so.



Who gives a damn to them ? Does it mean they stand with Russian aggression ? I have not seen anyone coming forward to save poor Ruskies.


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## Madni Bappa

Jim Robinson said:


> Who gives a damn to them ? Does it mean they stand with Russian aggression ? I have not seen anyone coming forward to save poor Ruskies.


Don't know about all that. But we certainly stand against Amreeka and cronies white superiority and wars based on lies. This war and the ensuing propaganda from your side has revealed rich white nations hypocrisy on soooo many levels.

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## F-22Raptor

Madni Bappa said:


> Don't know about all that. But we certainly stand against Amreeka and cronies white superiority and wars based on lies. This war and the ensuing propaganda from your side has revealed rich white nations hypocrisy on soooo many levels.



Says the guy........living in America.

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## Amli

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502704792111624194

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502696746496974851



Even streaks don't make much difference.

Nothing, but theatre level SAM can deny the airspace, if the enemy is determined to lose planes to force through the SAM line.

This is why 9 out of 10 SAMs are point defence, vs area defence SAMs like S300 which can shoot down planes far enough for even a flight of 10+ planes to have a chance to attrite it. And even if they do get some very long range standoff weapon delivered, the line will still be held by neighbouring theatre level SAMs.

Planes on patrol are so far the best "SAM," because local losses can be replaced within 30 minutes, vs. days


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## kingQamaR

Madni Bappa said:


> But 26 of them spread out in Ukraine alone??



Don't know about all that. But we certainly stand against Amreeka and cronies white superiority and wars based on lies. This war and the ensuing propaganda from your side has revealed rich white nations hypocrisy on soooo many levels.

The problem is Putin's inept decisions have put him into a corner with few options. If he loses the war he is done and he has little chance of winning it. His only option to to keep the land he has stolen and claim victory then let his propaganda machine spin the Russian people. And I did check the fake news reported on the Ukrainian laboratories you tagged us , they are not military labs but opposite the 26 labs is irreverent whats important is there usage, they were set up in 2005, by Ukrainian health ministry with USA help into prevention of disease and did play a important role into Ukrainian recent corvid fight. I dunno if it helps this.

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> Says the guy........living in America.


American tax payer is funding the Ukrainian resistance 

Online frustration does not mean anything

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502711028257366017

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502701731746099200
> This Russian officer recognizes what's up. And those propagandists humiliated him. No respect whatsoever



Interesting thread.


----------



## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> Says the guy........living in America.


These ppl will do anything to live in the west and then bitch about west all the time. It must be sucks for them to live in a country which they also hate lol.

The irony.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502710182933106697

Another round of Javelins and Stingers for Ukraine

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## _Nabil_

Amli said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502704792111624194


Really funny 🤣😂

But what "negative rating" on your post means? ?

How do you give negative or positive rating?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502706968745623553

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## sal29

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502710182933106697
> 
> Another round of Javelins and Stingers for Ukraine


Sure why not ... I mean why not use Ukrainians as cannon fodder while being too chicken shit to engage the Russians directly even though you have clear military advantage. But I guess fighting even just barely a near peer is still not something you wanna do.

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## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502710182933106697
> 
> Another round of Javelins and Stingers for Ukraine


Excellent. They need thousands more. 

Putler was crying saying weapon supplies not fair ha ha.

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## Tamerlane

Madni Bappa said:


> Please don't tell me you're gonna throw the same "leave if you don't like it here" argument. Gambit threw my way.
> Got it handed to him in response by everyone else.
> 
> That line of argument really doesn't work and is highly problematic.



I like your posts, but I would agree with the other guy. It comes across as very hypocritical when we live in a country and condemn it in a blanket way. 

America is not a single entity that deserves to be condemned. It has 1,000 moving parts, like people, businesses, politicians, tech companies, universities, ethnic groups, etc. It may make more sense to pick out the 1 or 2 parts for criticism rather than condemn the whole country. E.g. you could criticize foreign control of America (Israel), or the military industrial complex. That would make more sense and plenty, if not most, Americans will agree with you.

Just my opinion.

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## Vergennes

sal29 said:


> Sure why not ... I mean why not use Ukrainians as cannon fodder while being too chicken shit to engage the Russians directly even though you have clear military advantage. But I guess fighting even just barely a near peer is still not something you wanna do.



"a near peer". Russian armed forces are junk and this war proves it. NATO has no obligation to intervene against Russia in Ukraine. NATO will not go to war against Russia just to prove some points to nobodys like you. Russian armed forces on the conventional matter are total junk and in no way a "peer" to NATO,that is why Russia is always agitating the nuclear threat.

NATO keeps delivering weapons that kill Russian soldiers in the thousands and Russia can nothing about it.

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## coffee_cup

United Nations Human Rights Commission confirms *579 dead* civilians and *1000 injured.*

Lets pray for the safety of all people living in the war zone!


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## Kraetoz

_Nabil_ said:


> Really funny 🤣😂
> 
> But what "negative rating" on your post means? ?
> 
> How do you give negative or positive rating?


It is embarrassing for the pro western peeps on this forum, hence the negative rating.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502680019386212365






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502617566359044097

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## sal29

Vergennes said:


> "a near peer". Russian armed forces are junk and this war proves it. NATO has no obligation to intervene against Russia in Ukraine. NATO will not go to war against Russia just to prove some points to nobodys like you. Russian armed forces on the conventional matter are total junk and in no way a "peer" to NATO,that is why Russia is always agitating the nuclear threat.
> 
> NATO keeps delivering weapons that kill Russian soldiers in the thousands and Russia can nothing about it.



Man you are just making my point. If they are not even near peer then why not engage them. Why such a chicken shit behaviour.

Why use Ukrainian lives as cannon fodder for your strategic interests. Do you even stop and think that you supplying weapons is in American strategic interests but not the Ukrainians. Are their lives worth less than yours ? If you really want to help then engage the Russians directly and not this cowardly act of arming civilians and untrained people to fight a war purely for western strategic interest. Have a heart I know you have one somewhere still beating a bit !!!

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## K_Bin_W

Despite massive western propaganda against Russia and one-sided stories the Risskies are marching ahead and making advances... The west can win on twitter I don't mind

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## Kraetoz

sal29 said:


> Sure why not ... I mean why not use Ukrainians as cannon fodder while being too chicken shit to engage the Russians directly even though you have clear military advantage. But I guess fighting even just barely a near peer is still not something you wanna do.


As i have always said. US strategy is simple since day 1, US will only fight Russia till the last Ukrainian.

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## _Nabil_

Kraetoz said:


> It is embarrassing for the pro western peeps on this forum, hence the negative rating.


So this forum is ruled by pro Western peeps??

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502365078292684807

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502719380026802187


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Some would like us to believe the Russian army and pro-Russian forces are losing, but then we could easily ask them how is it possible that they're seizing towns, cities, and encircling others if they are losing?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502553760937222145

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## Madni Bappa

Hamartia Antidote said:


> China Asks State-Owned Refiners To Halt Gasoline, Diesel Exports | OilPrice.com
> 
> 
> Chinese authorities have asked state refiners in the country to consider halting diesel and gasoline exports next month due to heightened concerns about oil supply after Russia invaded Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oilprice.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China to state-owned refiners: please halt all gasoline and diesel exports for April.
> The upward price pressure on energy and agricultural commodities poses a challenge for China.
> China plans to increase its crude oil, natural gas, and coal production, boost reserves of energy commodities, and keep stable imports to ensure its energy security.
> Chinese authorities have asked state refiners in the country to consider halting diesel and gasoline exports next month due to heightened concerns about oil supply after Russia invaded Ukraine, Reuters reported on Wednesday, quoting sources familiar with the issue.
> 
> "This is to prevent a shortage as independent refiners are under big pressure to lower throughput in the face of soaring crude oil prices," a source with knowledge of the talks with state refiners told Reuters.
> 
> China, the world's largest crude oil importer, hasn't condemned Russia's invasion of Ukraine and is likely the country that will continue to trade with Russia regardless of any sanctions the Western allies decide to impose in the future.
> 
> However, China is concerned about its energy security, too, considering the skyrocketing prices of energy commodities, of which it is a major importer.
> 
> 
> China plans to increase its crude oil, natural gas, and coal production, boost reserves of energy commodities, and keep stable imports to ensure its energy security amid skyrocketing commodities prices, the top Chinese economic planner said earlier this week.
> 
> "Since the beginning of this year, under the combined influence of multiple factors such as the Covid-19 pandemic, the monetary policy shift of major economies, and especially the escalation of geopolitical conflicts, the international commodity price situation has become more severe, complex and uncertain," Lian Weiliang, a vice-director at the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC), said at a press briefing as carried by South China Morning Post.
> 
> The upward price pressure on energy and agricultural commodities "poses a new challenge to ensure domestic supply and price stability," Lian said.
> 
> 
> The planning body NDRC said over the weekend that the country would raise coal production and reserves, develop "major petroleum reserve projects," and increase petroleum reserves, too, per Reuters.
> 
> Last month, China said it would help run its coal-fired power plants at full capacity in a bid to ensure energy security, despite the climate goals of the world's largest polluter.
> 
> By Tsvetana Paraskova for Oilprice.com





Oracle said:


> Is china expecting global recession or another war front or any sanctions ?





F-22Raptor said:


> Says the guy........living in America.





Jim Robinson said:


> We were the one and still are the one (White Countries) feeding you since your independence else you are the slaves of China. Living in a white Country and talking trash about it is hypocrisy. Aargh I was expecting too much from you.





Jim Robinson said:


> Do I really need to tell you genius ? Where do your most of the export goes ? Who has given you GSP Status ? From where were you getting most of the aid ? All this coming from White countries where you do all hypocrites live and talk shit about them.





mmr said:


> These ppl will do anything to live in the west and then bitch about west all the time. It must be sucks for them to live in a country which they also hate lol.
> 
> The irony.





Tamerlane said:


> I like your posts, but I would agree with the other guy. It comes across as very hypocritical when we live in a country and condemn it in a blanket way.
> 
> America is not a single entity that deserves to be condemned. It has 1,000 moving parts, like people, businesses, politicians, tech companies, universities, ethnic groups, etc. It may make more sense to pick out the 1 or 2 parts for criticism rather than condemn the whole country. E.g. you could criticize foreign control of America (Israel), or the military industrial complex. That would make more sense and plenty, if not most, Americans will agree with you.
> 
> Just my opinion.


If you say I am an immigrant in goraland. Then I say you are also immigrants who's ancestors stole this land from brown Native Americans. Either with lies/deceit or outright slaughter.

I say to you if you don't like me practicing my constitutional rights to point out the hypocrisy. Then what will you say about those who protested against US imperial/colonial design in Vietnam? What will you say to the Freedom Riders and Civil rights activists?? Who protested against the "My best friend is black" hypocrisy?

Let me tell you a story. A Sikh man(beard, turban Sardar G) was sitting in a park in Southall, London. A white supremacist skullhead came up to him and said "why are you even in our country"??

The Sardari G replied "We are here because you were there". Referring to British colonisation of Indian subcontinent. And the subsequent murder, deceit and pillaging of resources that ensued at hands of Gora British in India. There are countless massacres committed by British taught in Indian and Pakistani history classes. We all remember the famine orchestrated by Churchill who proclaimed the White people as "superior race". British Indian troops used as literal cannon fodder but never mentioned in Gung Ho "Band of Brothers" or "Dunkirk" etc

And what about the Gora Britain unfair partioning of MENA according to their whims and fetish for geometry. Without regard for linguistic, ethnic or cultural or tribal differences. That have left nothing but unresolved conflicts in their wake? Palestine, Kashmir and Kurds sandwiched between big examples of this.

Similarly how many nations has America destroyed in the last two decades alone? How many families? How many individual lives? How many puppets/cronies/ they had to take in?? Those they themselves propped up to fight one Boogeyman or another? How many legit refugees US had to take in just because of this mad pillaging?

Only few months ago we have seen the Afghan refugee episode where US struggled to find 3rd countries or old derelict bases to dump the Afghans "translators".

Also notice the Latin Americans who are sick and tired of systematic exploitation at hands of US installed dictators, autocrats and mafias/cartels and are simply saying enough is enough and lining up at US borders.

The point is summarized by this video of Altaf Bhai(MI6 asset):





When you go in, destroy nations, steal natural resources and do all of that on pretext that you're some guardian angel. It will eventually come back to haunt you. And I'm sorry to say people like me would do a disservice to humanity to not speak up.

Same thing you've done to Russians. Even though they were defeated, willing to cooperate and assimilate into the new Emerging European or Western bloc. You still treated them with humiliation, a vanquished enemy in face of whom Western power must boast. Eventually putting them in a corner where they lashed out in the end.

Now you've stooped low to ban cats, dystyovsky, chess players, athletes, bullying ethnic Russian school children, painting russian shops with RUS like the star of David for jews in Nazi Germany.

And begging the very people you tried to assassinate with small drones or hire PMC to carry out regime change. Or beg from people you have painted as vicious animals.

Where does this stop? You have gobbled up vast majority of world's resources. Creating so much disparity. To the point people are literally giving up and lining up your door.

The non white world is sick and tired of wars started by you with all the usual catch phrases(lies) like freedom, democracy and liberation etc. Something which I aptly have labelled Captain America-ism.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Amli said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502702937700814849




It is documented in this Russia Today link: https://www.rt.com/russia/551762-ukrainian-airfield-assault-video/


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## Madni Bappa

Clutch said:


> The oil from Muslim lands feeds you. Now bow down to the real master race.


@Jim Robinson hun das puttar??

Translation:
Well Google translate it my bro.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502719026522431492

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502719028732829697

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502719711234174981
The siege of Mauripol has been potentially lifted

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## Vergennes

Humiliation of the second's most powerful army by drunk farmers and gopniks continue


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502683533659234304

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502547783009673217


Vergennes said:


> Humiliation of the second's most powerful army by drunk farmers and gopniks continue
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502683533659234304

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## LeGenD

Muhammed45 said:


> Americans will surely deny it. But we all know that they attacked Afghanistan on a false claim, they attacked Iraq for non existent WMDs.
> 
> Call me a conspiracy theorist, Americans have been working on different genetics of different races from different countries in order make specialized bio weapons for the target nations. Slavs are no exception.
> 
> Russia did the best to invade Ukraine, the traitors like Zelensky or Pinochet of chile are good at destroying countries in favor of American imperialists. Hope they remove American installer puppet.


This is a lengthy discussion and it won't be easy to change your mind either. A large number of arguments were addressed in this thread thus far but it looks like WE will have to start from scratch in your case.

Let me put this in simple terms for you:

American assault on Iraq = controversial/unwelcome/unnecessary

Russian assault on Ukraine = controversial/unwelcome/unnecessary

For the sake of argument, Bush junior closed the chapter of Saddam Hussein in Iraq. This man was oppressive to his own and disrespected sovereignity of neighboring countries. Iranians should be happy though.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy is not Saddam Hussein on the other hand.









Zelensky vs Putin: who’s winning the PR battle?


As Russian bombs fell across Ukraine, the contrast between the leaders of the warring nations could not be starker.




amp.scmp.com





Zelenskyy motivated Ukranians to pick up arms and fight Russians through administrative channels and social media. Many answered his call in fact.









Volodymyr Zelensky - The Man, Mystic and Messiah of the Ukranians | The Avenue Mail


Volodymyr Zelensky - The Man, Mystic and Messiah of the Ukranians | News News | The Avenue Mail




avenuemail.in













Ukraine: How is 'voice of resistance' Volodymyr Zelensky uniting his people?


"A patriot and a performer and he's putting on the performance of his life" – how Volodymyr Zelensky is leading Ukraine's resistance.




www.forces.net





Not bad for alleged puppet or is he?

Therefore.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502482166676135938

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## Baghial

INTRESTING BIRD!..

another new occupying "bird", captured by the soldiers of the SSO of Ukraine


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## thetutle

TNT said:


> How can reserves of a country be taken like this? I mean it belongs to the ppl of russia and is their money. But i guess the russians can make it even because Russia have around 400 billion of external debt as well, so Russia is justified not to pay any of that, they are also banned from the swift so no way either. I think Russia will also not pay lease of the planes and other stuff. Seems the west is shooting itself in the foot with these sanctions.



Some measures will hurt the west. But will absolutely cripple Russia. Putin is already saying sanctions are a warlike act. The west is not saying that. The west is fine. 

Russian company (Rosatom) today became the owner of a ukranian nuclear power plant. They just took it after the military conquered it. This didnt happen before, when US invaded Iraq, it did not take over Iraqi companies and give it to Microsoft or google or General Electric. They remained Iraqi companies. This has now changed. 

These are the new rules of the game. These are rules that Russia set. If they can take a country or land and declare it theirs, someone can take their money. 

This is the new Cold War. The new rules seem to be if you are stronger, you can take it. Lets see how that works out. Today a billion dollar yacht was taken form a Russian in Italy. money he made in russia. Usually thats just called state sanctioned theft. 

Russia has hundreds of Boeing and airbus aircraft, each is worth hundreds of millions. The leasing companies want them back. where will russia fly them? To Minsk. to Damascus. OK, what if it want sot fly to Singapore or Dubai? and there is a demand that Dubai or Singapore confiscate those planes and return them? They will have to. Or they themselves will get the same treatment. 

The world will be split into the West and Russian supporters. If you want aircraft, whose side will you choose?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

ASB Military News on Gab: 'EXCLUSIVE FOOTAGE shows 200 Russian Spetsnaz taki…'


ASB Military News on Gab: 'EXCLUSIVE FOOTAGE shows 200 Russian Spetsnaz taking control of Gostomel airport in Ukraine — about 2 weeks ago. The most revealing part to us from this footage is the Ka-52 helicopter differentiating angle of attacks and specific weapons. At the end, you can hear the...




gab.com


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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502719026522431492
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502719028732829697
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502719711234174981
> The siege of Mauripol has been potentially lifted



Important to note that Volnovakha is 50km from Mauripol, but a strategic city. Russians may have to divert forces to protect their rear, thereby relieving pressure off Mauripol.

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## Messerschmitt

sal29 said:


> Man you are just making my point. If they are not even near peer then why not engage them. Why such a chicken shit behaviour.


Because NATO wants to avoid a nuclear war (WW3).


sal29 said:


> Why use Ukrainian lives as cannon fodder for your strategic interests. Do you even stop and think that you supplying weapons is in American strategic interests but not the Ukrainians. Are their lives worth less than yours ?


How is it not in the interest of Ukrainians to get supplied with weapons at a time when they are under constant Russian attacks?


sal29 said:


> If you really want to help then engage the Russians directly and not this cowardly act of arming civilians and untrained people to fight a war purely for western strategic interest.


You are not seriously suggesting that NATO should directly engage with Russia and risk causing a nuclear war? This is not a video game.

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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> "a near peer". Russian armed forces are junk and this war proves it. NATO has no obligation to intervene against Russia in Ukraine. NATO will not go to war against Russia just to prove some points to nobodys like you. Russian armed forces on the conventional matter are total junk and in no way a "peer" to NATO,that is why Russia is always agitating the nuclear threat.
> 
> NATO keeps delivering weapons that kill Russian soldiers in the thousands and Russia can nothing about it.



Honestly, they are very lucky Russians screwed so bad. From the material side, if not for inept leadership, they had 50/50 chance to consolidate their force into a WW2 style "firewall," which would've left near no chances for Ukrainians.

It's just a broken from the start strategy with doomed them.

If Europe will let Russia to regroup, and recover in a few years, they can replace asshat generals, and make Europe a new one

They will greatly regret leaving the Russia problem for later, in 4-6 years.


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## Madni Bappa

thetutle said:


> Some measures will hurt the west. But will absolutely cripple Russia. Putin is already saying sanctions are a warlike act. The west is not saying that. The west is fine.
> 
> Russian company (Rosatom) today became the owner of a ukranian nuclear power plant. They just took it after the military conquered it. This didnt happen before, when US invaded Iraq, it did not take over Iraqi companies and give it to Microsoft or google or General Electric. They remained Iraqi companies. This has now changed.
> 
> These are the new rules of the game. These are rules that Russia set. If they can take a country or land and declare it theirs, someone can take their money.
> 
> This is the new Cold War. The new rules seem to be if you are stronger, you can take it. Lets see how that works out. Today a billion dollar yacht was taken form a Russian in Italy. money he made in russia. Usually thats just called state sanctioned theft.
> 
> Russia has hundreds of Boeing and airbus aircraft, each is worth hundreds of millions. The leasing companies want them back. where will russia fly them? To Minsk. to Damascus. OK, what if it want sot fly to Singapore or Dubai? and there is a demand that Dubai or Singapore confiscate those planes and return them? They will have to. Or they themselves will get the same treatment.
> 
> The world will be split into the West and Russian supporters. If you want aircraft, whose side will you choose?


The Western leaders however directly and indirectly are telling their people to pay the price for "democracy" and for backing the Hero piano player. 

Why is Biden running around like a headless chicken and begging Venezuela, UAE, Iran and Columbia for petes sake for oil??

Fuel prices have hiked by whopping 75 cents 

And Jen Psaki is still saying "temporary inflation"

My relatives in UK have just recently received notice that their energy bills could go up as much as 54%. 

These elite go around fomenting adventurism, neo nazis, coupes and wars. And we are left to pay the price??

To this again you will say. If you don't like it leave West. Or how dare you speak against this while living in US?? Biaach you answer to me for every hard earned dollar I give you in taxes!

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> Important to note that Volnovakha is 50km from Mauripol, but a strategic city. Russians may have to divert forces to protect their rear, thereby relieving pressure off Mauripol.



Not sure who spread this news, but it is totally BS. Here is the CGTN correspondent visiting the town after it was seized by the pro-Russian forces. The town is totally destroyed, and CGTN posted the news today. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502730063506288645








CGTN correspondent Dmitriy Maslak's war diary in Volnovakha







news.cgtn.com

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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> Honestly, they are very lucky Russians screwed so bad. From the material side, if not for inept leadership, they had 50/50 chance to consolidate their force into a WW2 style "firewall," which would've left near no chances for Ukrainians.
> 
> It's just a broken from the start strategy with doomed them.
> 
> If Europe will let Russia to regroup, and recover in a few years, they can replace asshat generals, and make Europe a new one
> 
> They will greatly regret leaving the Russia problem for later, in 4-6 years.



Russia only modernized a small portion of its forces in the last decade. If sanctions hold, they certainly won't have the money in 5 years time.

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## Madni Bappa

thetutle said:


> If you want aircraft, whose side will you choose?


China

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## Paul2

Messerschmitt said:


> You are not seriously suggesting that NATO should directly engage with Russia and risk causing a nuclear war? This is not a video game.



Yes, and this is why Europe's best interest to Yugoslavia Russia now, while they still can.

There is no telling how many Chamberlains are lining up in European capitals now to offer populace low taxes, and cheap petrol in exchange for votes.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502722311287451648

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502616766823944195

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## Madni Bappa

Madni Bappa said:


> If you say I am an immigrant in goraland. Then I say you are also immigrants who's ancestors stole this land from brown Native Americans. Either with lies/deceit or outright slaughter.
> 
> I say to you if you don't like me practicing my constitutional rights to point out the hypocrisy. Then what will you say about those who protested against US imperial/colonial design in Vietnam? What will you say to the Freedom Riders and Civil rights activists?? Who protested against the "My best friend is black" hypocrisy?
> 
> Let me tell you a story. A Sikh man(beard, turban Sardar G) was sitting in a park in Southall, London. A white supremacist skullhead came up to him and said "why are you even in our country"??
> 
> The Sardari G replied "We are here because you were there". Referring to British colonisation of Indian subcontinent. And the subsequent murder, deceit and pillaging of resources that ensued at hands of Gora British in India. There are countless massacres committed by British taught in Indian and Pakistani history classes. We all remember the famine orchestrated by Churchill who proclaimed the White people as "superior race". British Indian troops used as literal cannon fodder but never mentioned in Gung Ho "Band of Brothers" or "Dunkirk" etc
> 
> And what about the Gora Britain unfair partioning of MENA according to their whims and fetish for geometry. Without regard for linguistic, ethnic or cultural or tribal differences. That have left nothing but unresolved conflicts in their wake? Palestine, Kashmir and Kurds sandwiched between big examples of this.
> 
> Similarly how many nations has America destroyed in the last two decades alone? How many families? How many individual lives? How many puppets/cronies/ they had to take in?? Those they themselves propped up to fight one Boogeyman or another? How many legit refugees US had to take in just because of this mad pillaging?
> 
> Only few months ago we have seen the Afghan refugee episode where US struggled to find 3rd countries or old derelict bases to dump the Afghans "translators".
> 
> Also notice the Latin Americans who are sick and tired of systematic exploitation at hands of US installed dictators, autocrats and mafias/cartels and are simply saying enough is enough and lining up at US borders.
> 
> The point is summarized by this video of Altaf Bhai(MI6 asset):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you go in, destroy nations, steal natural resources and do all of that on pretext that you're some guardian angel. It will eventually come back to haunt you. And I'm sorry to say people like me would do a disservice to humanity to not speak up.
> 
> Same thing you've done to Russians. Even though they were defeated, willing to cooperate and assimilate into the new Emerging European or Western bloc. You still treated them with humiliation, a vanquished enemy in face of whom Western power must boast. Eventually putting them in a corner where they lashed out in the end.
> 
> Now you've stooped low to ban cats, dystyovsky, chess players, athletes, bullying ethnic Russian school children, painting russian shops with RUS like the star of David for jews in Nazi Germany.
> 
> And begging the very people you tried to assassinate with small drones or hire PMC to carry out regime change. Or beg from people you have painted as vicious animals.
> 
> Where does this stop? You have gobbled up vast majority of world's resources. Creating so much disparity. To the point people are literally giving up and lining up your door.
> 
> The non white world is sick and tired of wars started by you with all the usual catch phrases(lies) like freedom, democracy and liberation etc. Something which I aptly have labelled Captain America-ism.







GORON KI BOLTI BAND
THE DAMAGE HAS BEEN DONE!!!


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## sal29

Messerschmitt said:


> Because NATO wants to avoid a nuclear war (WW3).
> 
> How is it not in the interest of Ukrainians to get supplied with weapons at a time when they are under constant Russian attacks?
> 
> You are not seriously suggesting that NATO should directly engage with Russia and risk causing a nuclear war? This is not a video game.



So you don't want to die in WW3 but it is ok for the Ukrainians to die and for the west to use them as cannon fodder for western strategic interests. 

I mean if you don't want to directly engage the Russians then also don't provide weaponry to their adversaries which lead them to use more lethal force in urban centers causing more casualties. Instead of striving for peace and telling the Ukrainian power center to strive for neutrality of Ukraine and to end this conflict you are actively engaged in prolonging it. 

This is not a video game ... Exactly it is not so don't treat Ukrainian lives as one. Thousands more will die for western interests for something that Ukrainians will never achieve which is Nato membership because as you said it will be WW3 if they do .. the Russians have clear red line on this. So behind this façade of helping the Ukrainians all you are doing as someone in this forum aptly put ... Is fighting the Russians till the last Ukrainian and treating them as cannon fodder for an objective they cannot achieve.

And before you climb the high horse of fighting for freedom look into western history of mass murders and atrocities committed under the name of spreading democracy in Vietnam, Afghanistan, WMD in Iraq, Libya and countless others. Your hands are painted red with blood of innocent lives lost by the bombs & chemicals dropped by the West. Shame on you and shame on the west who think they have the moral high ground here.

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## Baghial

!!!! ATTENTION GRAPHIC IMAGES



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501631638345854993


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502627346158923778

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia only modernized a small portion of its forces in the last decade. If sanctions hold, they certainly won't have the money in 5 years time.



Russia needs no modernisation to repeat Ukraine many times with even WW2 era weapons.

Tanks, SPGs, APCs, minimum aviation. None really changed much from late USSR times.

There is no question NATO can flatten Russian military if it has the initiative, but, in 4-6 years, EU capitals will be full of defeatist Biden/Chamberlain clones of their own who will come to power on promise of "relieving pain" of taxes, military budgets, and petrol prices.

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## Dai Toruko

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502627346158923778
> 
> View attachment 823594




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502633561161146371

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## F-22Raptor

Baghial said:


> !!!! ATTENTION GRAPHIC IMAGES
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501631638345854993




Russian soldiers continue to get obliterated.....for a dictator with little man syndrome. Those soldiers should be at home with their families today.

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## Wood

Russia's less than stellar performance in Ukraine invasion would factor into Beijing's calculations in planning any future war with Western countries.

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## LeGenD

Madni Bappa said:


> Please don't tell me you're gonna throw the same "leave if you don't like it here" argument. Gambit threw my way.
> Got it handed to him in response by everyone else.
> 
> That line of argument really doesn't work and is highly problematic.
> 
> 
> Here have some of this:
> View attachment 823561


The point in question is valid.

If you dislike USA, you shouldn't be there in the 1st place. You do not disrespect a country that provides you opportunities in life. This is a matter of having principles.

You can logically argue that American history is not clean but this topic is about Ukraine-Russia War and how it affects NATO and EU. This is sufficient reason for USA to be involved in this matter. Clear enough?

Gambit was stopped by Mods on this line. Your Posts of No Value are drawing attention as well.

You are requested to make constructive contributions as well.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Equipment from Ukrainian forces captured by pro-Russian DNR forces in the last few days


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502696592213790726

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## The SC



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## kingQamaR

K_Bin_W said:


> Despite massive western propaganda against Russia and one-sided stories the Risskies are marching ahead and making advances... The west can win on twitter I don't mind




Putin's forces may eventually prevail through sheer numbers, ignoring casualties, and viciously annihilating whole areas. But then comes the occupation, and no Russian soldier or administrator will ever be safe. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians who have lost husbands, wives, children, grandparents - as well as home and country - will exact a terrible revenge.

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## thetutle

Madni Bappa said:


> My relatives in UK have just recently received notice that their energy bills could go up as much as 54%.
> 
> These elite go around fomenting adventurism, neo nazis, coupes and wars. And we are left to pay the price??
> 
> To this again you will say. If you don't like it leave West. Or how dare you speak against this while living in US?? Biaach you answer to me for every hard earned dollar I give you in taxes!


yes there needs to be government accountability. But people now realise that there is no freedom and prosperity while your enemies are conquering other countries and taking their resources. 

We wont have a good standard in the west if russia departs from the rules based order and implements conqueror takes it all. We in the west will seek to do the same thing. The world will go back to the 17th century. I dont know if thats a good idea.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Dai Toruko said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502633561161146371




Bro, the ASB military who has posted the news stated they shared the photo for illustration purposes. 👇👇

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## thetutle

Madni Bappa said:


> China


China cant operate modern passenger aircraft without US tech. They are developing one to be able to. but they are a long way off.

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## Paul2

LeGenD said:


> The point in question is valid.
> 
> If you dislike USA, you shouldn't be there in the 1st place. You do not disrespect a country that provides you opportunities in life. This is a matter of having principles.
> 
> You can logically argue that American history is not clean but this topic is about Ukraine-Russia War and how it affects NATO and EU. This is sufficient reason for USA to be involved in this matter. Clear enough?
> 
> Gambit was stopped by Mods on this line. Your Posts of No Value are drawing attention as well.
> 
> You are requested to make constructive contributions as well.


@LeGenD can you check the posts in GHQ?


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## Baghial

F-22Raptor said:


> Russian soldiers continue to get obliterated.....for a dictator with little man syndrome. Those soldiers should be at home with their families today.




AN UGLY TRUTH/ 
VS
A SAFE LIE..


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## RescueRanger

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Bro, the ASB military who has posted the news stated they shared the photo for illustration purposes. 👇👇
> 
> 
> View attachment 823599


That is an old photo friend.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502739360369848334

Another TB2 strike

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## Baghial

The SC said:


> View attachment 823597





SOME DETAIL......


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## Hassan Al-Somal

RescueRanger said:


> That is an old photo friend.



They (ASB Military) stated the photo was for illustration purposes.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502673533025009664


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## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> Time to bury the Russian stock market.
> 
> The New York Stock Exchange never closed during WW2.


Short sellers cant crystallise gains until market opens. when it does there are going to be a lot of new billionaires in the west and a lot of bankrupt people that bet on russia. So the Russian stock market might not open again. I dont see what reopening the market will achieve for russia. It is not a place to raise capital anymore. Its where companies go do die.


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## Messerschmitt

sal29 said:


> So you don't want to die in WW3 but it is ok for the Ukrainians to die and for the west to use them as cannon fodder for western strategic interests.


What does that even mean? Nobody "uses" Ukrainians as cannon fodder. Their country is being invaded under a false pretext and they are defending it with their lives.


sal29 said:


> I mean if you don't want to directly engage the Russians then also don't provide weaponry to their adversaries which lead them to use more lethal force in urban centers causing more casualties.


I simply cannot follow your logic. If NATO intents to support Ukraine in defending their country against an invader (Russia) but cannot confront the invader (Russia) directly for obvious reasons, then supplying the Ukrainians with means to defend themselves is the least they can do.


sal29 said:


> Instead of striving for peace and telling the Ukrainian power center to strive for neutrality of Ukraine and to end this conflict you are actively engaged in prolonging it.


One cannot expect Ukraine to be neutral towards Russia after all what happened.


sal29 said:


> So behind this façade of helping the Ukrainians all you are doing as someone in this forum aptly put ... Is fighting the Russians till the last Ukrainian and treating them as cannon fodder for an objective they cannot achieve.


When have I claimed to be helping Ukrainians? This was never about me? You are jumping from one assumption to the other.


sal29 said:


> And before you climb the high horse of fighting for freedom look into western history of mass murders and atrocities committed under the name of spreading democracy in Vietnam, Afghanistan, WMD in Iraq, Libya and countless others. Your hands are painted red with blood of innocent lives lost by the bombs & chemicals dropped by the West. Shame on you and shame on the west who think they have the moral high ground here.


This is totally unrelated to both the discussion and the thread. You can send a letter or an essay to Stoltenberg and complain if you like but I am not a NATO representative. I merely gave you the reason why NATO refrains from entering a direct confrontation with Russia. Relax.

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## The SC

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Equipment from Ukrainian forces captured by pro-Russian DNR forces in the last few days
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502696592213790726


The Russian army seizes more Nlaw launchers, Uragan launchers and tanks from a Ukrainian camp







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502739784812355586

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## RescueRanger

Kyiv lots of loud booms heard, right bank of the Dnipro , started about 9 pm. Source: Telegram

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502723347825709057

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## Ali_Baba

What the UK is planning on sending to Ukraine - interesting platform :

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## RescueRanger

Ali_Baba said:


> What the UK is planning on sending to Ukraine - interesting platform :


Yes we discussed this a couple of hundred pages back = this thread is getting hard to monitor at this stage. This is a game changer for sure, but still not as good as actual fighter aircraft.

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## Primus

The SC said:


> The Russian army seizes more Nlaw launchers, Uragan launchers and tanks from a Ukrainian camp
> 
> View attachment 823601
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502739784812355586


Wait. Ukraine doesnt have a t72b3.


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## dBSPL

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502627346158923778
> 
> View attachment 823594


You were one of my favorite member. But here I am watching with amazement you turn into an account that mediates fake news/ propaganda in favor of Russia. It seems You never questioning the things you share. Normally, I don't interfere in such situations, but since you keep repeating the same thing, I have to say stop.

*The photo you used here is from the 2020 Karabagh war.* There is currently no visual evidence that supports the downing of any Ukrainian TB2s.

Btw, While the whole world, including Russia, imposes a heavy weapons embargo on your country, this TB-2 will fly with your country's emblem.

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## LeGenD

Members are advised to provide updates on the conflict and be mindful of Forum Rules in the process.

Those who stir contoversy, Flamebait, troll, or have nothing constructive to post will be booted.

Thank you.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502677081880158215

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## sal29

Messerschmitt said:


> What does that even mean? Nobody "uses" Ukrainians as cannon fodder. Their country is being invaded under a false pretext and they are defending it with their lives.
> 
> I simply cannot follow your logic. If NATO intents to support Ukraine in defending their country against an invader (Russia) but cannot confront the invader (Russia) directly for obvious reasons, then supplying the Ukrainians with means to defend themselves is the least they can do.
> 
> One cannot expect Ukraine to be neutral towards Russia after all what happened.
> 
> When have I claimed to be helping Ukrainians? This was never about me? You are jumping from one assumption to the other.
> 
> This is totally unrelated to both the discussion and the thread. You can send a letter or an essay to Stoltenberg and complain if you like but I am not a NATO representative. I merely gave you the reason why NATO refrains from entering a direct confrontation with Russia. Relax.



Oh come on !!!! really you cant understand.

Nato is like a big kid who gives money to a naïve smaller kid and ask him to slap another big kid who took his lunch money. He does and gets beaten really hard. He comes back and the first big kid gives him money again and a glove and ask to slap again saying it would be better this time. This small kid who is already angry of the beating & is emotional he takes the money and the glove and goes back and slaps again. This time he gets twice the beating and cycle continues.

Do you see anything wrong with the scenarios or do you think the big kid giving money is doing the right thing ? I tried to make it simple so you can understand it easily but please don't take it literally.

Why can't you expect Ukraine to be neutral. You expected the exact neutrality from the Taliban when you left, that their land and government won't be used to create trouble for the west why not the Ukrainians ?

I understand you are trying to explain why Nato is avoiding direct confrontation and I agree with you 100% that it should not do a direct confrontation (my chicken shit comment does not mean they should enter the conflict actively). What I am trying to convey to you is to stop arming Ukrainians which will lead to nothing but more bloodshed and loss of life. The other thing I am trying to convey is that the West does not care about Ukrainian lives as long as they can be used as cannon fodder to fulfill their bottom line. That is where the blood lust of the west and the naivety of the Ukrainians can be observed.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502690084507770881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502689204098277378

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502721082339610625


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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Some would like us to believe the Russian army and pro-Russian forces are losing, but then we could easily ask them how is it possible that they're seizing towns, cities, and encircling others if they are losing?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502553760937222145



What you fail to realise is that when we say they are losing, they are losing against the west and Europe and USA. Even though they are currently militarily dominating Ukraine and causing terrible suffering. 

Ukraine is a battle in a larger war. A war that will end with a western victory and a Russian loss.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502686874393092097


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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502690084507770881
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502689204098277378


The loss to the civil infrastructure in Ukraine is running into the Billions.

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## bobo6661

The SC said:


> The Russian army seizes more Nlaw launchers, Uragan launchers and tanks from a Ukrainian camp




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498676125786116099
Looks like those where captured by Ukraine

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502683374594502665


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## dBSPL

@Hassan Al-Somal , Isn't the Ukrainian side making fake news? A lot. Maybe @RescueRanger could approve me, I've wrote at least 3-4 posts about explaining some fake news from Ukraine side. Unfortunately, PSYOPs are also part of this dirty work. My expectation here is to provide a forum environment with higher awareness and not being a tool/parrot for such activities, unlike the rest of social media.

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## The SC

RescueRanger said:


> The loss to the civil infrastructure in Ukraine is running into the Billions.


Yes.. they said a few days ago it was at $100 already..

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## Hassan Al-Somal

dBSPL said:


> You were one of my favorite member. But here I am watching with amazement you turn into an account that mediates fake news/ propaganda in favor of Russia. It seems You never questioning the things you share. Normally, I don't interfere in such situations, but since you keep repeating the same thing, I have to say stop.
> 
> *The photo you used here is from the 2020 Karabagh war.* There is currently no visual evidence that supports the downing of any Ukrainian TB2s.
> 
> Btw, While the whole world, including Russia, imposes a heavy weapons embargo on your country, this TB-2 will fly with your country's emblem.



If it is between Russia and Turkey, I will definitely be with Turkey to the point where I'll volunteer to fight on the side of Turkey!!

In this conflict, I would've been neutral had the West not been involved. Any neutral observer would've been with Ukraine since they're the underdog and their country is invaded. But the reality is different though, as their leadership chose to be a cannon-fodder for other powers. They seem to put other powers' national interests before their people and country's interest.

Besides, the embargo on us and the destabilization that we face are from these powers. So anyone who can break this one-sided so-called "International Order" is welcome in my book. Putin may be evil, especially in Syria and in other places, but the truth is in Africa, Midde East, Asia, and South America, the West is the evil that we face.

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## The SC

dBSPL said:


> @Hassan Al-Somal , Isn't the Ukrainian side making fake news? A lot. Maybe @RescueRanger could approve me, I've wrote at least 3-4 posts about explaining some fake news from Ukraine side. Unfortunately, PSYOPs are also part of this dirty work. My expectation here is to provide a forum environment with higher awareness and not being a tool/parrot for such activities, unlike the rest of social media.


An old saying: "The first causality of war is the truth"..

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## thetutle

sal29 said:


> I mean if you don't want to directly engage the Russians then also don't provide weaponry to their adversaries which lead them to use more lethal force in urban centers causing more casualties. Instead of striving for peace and telling the Ukrainian power center to strive for neutrality of Ukraine and to end this conflict you are actively engaged in prolonging it.


Ukranians are showing that they would rather die than live under russia. I can understand it. So they are given weapons to defend themselves, They dont have to fight. they can leave or surrender. But they are not a people with a slave mentality.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502677816831262729

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502574902796328961


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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502739354761977863

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502748398721503233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502745510062530568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502740080368177154

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502740314662092804

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502743008520937477

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## LeGenD

For those who think that coverage of the ongoing conflict in this thread is not balanced:

@Hassan Al-Somal
@Elias MC

These two gentlemen are providing Russian updates and POV on a regular basis.

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> @Hassan Al-Somal , Isn't the Ukrainian side making fake news? A lot. Maybe @RescueRanger could approve me, I've wrote at least 3-4 posts about explaining some fake news from Ukraine side. Unfortunately, PSYOPs are also part of this dirty work. My expectation here is to provide a forum environment with higher awareness and not being a tool/parrot for such activities, unlike the rest of social media.


I agree there the propaganda war is being fought on both sides, in fact I was one of the first people in this thread to highlight the apparent one-sidedness of the coverage by some elements of the media, as for twitter we have a phrase in Urdu "Tooba Tooba" xD. 

Anyway, you know about the song and the pro Turkish overtones from Ukraine and then when that didn't work the Embassy sent a very smelly tweet in protest against the Turkish and now they say the Russians targeted a mosque - I am sure you have also seen the footage of Mufti joining the Ukrainian National Guard. 

I really don't want any friendly nation getting dragged into this because this is going to become a protracted quagmire which will be very difficult to extract yourself from and the economic, security and geo-political implications of this are blatantly obvious for all to see. 

That said, mabye I am a little biased but I am rooting for Ukraine to give the Russians a damn good trashing, even though I know Russia is too big to fail and behind closed doors there will be dicussions between the big EU players (Germany, France, UK et al) to bring Russia back into the fold after a time out on the naughty step. 

As for the US, they want to treat Ukraine like a proxy and make Russia suffer the kind of humiliation they had to endure during the fall of Kabul when a bunch of "savages and goat headers" in flip flops were able to defeat a modern, well equipped military funded by the 20 years of US and ISAF funds. 

The images of Taliban dressed as some sort of pseudo SF operator mimicking western operators and riding Humvees and even Blackhawks was a two finger salute to the West. Russia was insulated from this and had been emboldened by its adventure in Syria. 

This was the moment the US was looking for to deliver a strategic defeat to Russia and neuter a global headache and pivot in the region - and in doing so will position itself as a stable and reliable partner to supply gas to EU nations. 

Also we should remember that frozen conflicts have always been a barrier for NATO membership for nations bordering visegard nations. 

I might be completely wrong but this is my opinion.

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## Hamartia Antidote

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502721082339610625



I just thought of another benefit of the Bell V-280 tiltrotor - MediVac. Having Russian troops sent to Belarus hospitals is not ideal. I'm sure they'd rather treat them in Russia. 400 miles from Kharkiv, Ukraine to Moscow is easy for a V-280.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502730906565586946


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## sammuel

​


thetutle said:


> Ukranians are showing that they would rather die than live under russia. I can understand it. So they are given weapons to defend themselves, They dont have to fight. they can leave or surrender. But they are not a people with a slave mentality.



They are willing to compromise , they already said the are willing to give up on NATO and are willing to negotiate every thig else. But so far Putin demands complete surrender , which means giving up their independence , and this they are not willing to do.

~


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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502750579138994184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502742535055290371

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502742140555776003


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## sal29

thetutle said:


> Ukranians are showing that they would rather die than live under russia. I can understand it. So they are given weapons to defend themselves, They dont have to fight. they can leave or surrender. But they are not a people with a slave mentality.


 Really ... tell me how many refugees have EU received up till now ? By western sources it is around 2+ million. Around hundred thousand fled to Russia. 

These broad statement about they would rather die than live under Russia works very well to rile up emotions by MSM controlled by the west but has nothing to do with reality. A very large percentage of Ukrainians are ethnic Russians and I am sure they would want peace rather than war against an adversary with which they have no parity.

In the fog of war it is very hard to tell who wants to fight and who is being made to fight by force. There have been numerus reports of forceful conscriptions and the Nazi Azov battalion using women and children as shields.

Now personally I will take these reports with a pinch of salt but same goes regarding reports from the west as both sides are biased and are not actually telling the ground realities of the Ukrainians especially not the Ukrainian media brigade who have spread false rumors and have been factually proven. 

So statement from you regarding Ukrainians want to get their women and children killed is either naïve of you if you believe it or heartless if you actually don't believe it but still want to propagate the narrative.

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## Vergennes

Hamartia Antidote said:


> I just thought of another benefit of the Bell V-280 tiltrotor - MediVac. Having Russian troops sent to Belarus hospitals is not ideal. 400 miles is easy for a V-280.
> 
> View attachment 823609



Russians don't even bother recovering their deads and wounded,those were probably lucky enough.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502703590950985729

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502701311090954242

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502684423837429765


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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502752248845070339

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502752934026747904

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## The SC

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498676125786116099
> Looks like those where captured by Ukraine


With those yellow markings on them..they seem Ukrainian..

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## RescueRanger

LeGenD said:


> For those who think that coverage of the ongoing conflict in this thread is not balanced:
> 
> @Hassan Al-Somal
> @Elias MC
> 
> These two gentlemen are providing Russian updates and POV on a regular basis.


This! Also if you want some excellent Russia POV - consider following War Gonzo on twitter he is embedded with the Russians and the DPM. This is his twitter handle: https://twitter.com/wargonzoo

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502676866909491204

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502670371182583810


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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502754567645241347

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502753796832829449


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## Messerschmitt

sal29 said:


> Oh come on !!!! really you cant understand.
> 
> Nato is like a big kid who gives money to a naïve smaller kid and ask him to slap another big kid who took his lunch money. He does and gets beaten really hard. He comes back and the first big kid gives him money again and a glove and ask to slap again saying it would be better this time. This small kid who is already angry of the beating & is emotional he takes the money and the glove and goes back and slaps again. This time he gets twice the beating and cycle continues.
> 
> Do you see anything wrong with the scenarios or do you think the big kid giving money is doing the right thing ? I tried to make it simple so you can understand it easily but please don't take it literally.


Yes, I do believe supporting Ukraine in their fight and supplying them with weapons to defend themselves is the right thing to do but I don't think your analogy describes the actual situation even remotely. Ukraine is a sovereign nation and is therefore allowed to freely choose who to align with. If they perceived Russia to be a threat and saw joining the NATO as a way to protect themselves, so be it.


sal29 said:


> Why can't you expect Ukraine to be neutral. You expected the exact neutrality from the Taliban when you left, that their land and government won't be used to create trouble for the west why not the Ukrainians ?


Because Russia started a war with Ukraine by invading their country and clearly has ill intent.


sal29 said:


> I understand you are trying to explain why Nato is avoiding direct confrontation and I agree with you 100% that it should not do a direct confrontation (my chicken shit comment does not mean they should enter the conflict actively). What I am trying to convey to you is to stop arming Ukrainians which will lead to nothing but more bloodshed and loss of life. The other thing I am trying to convey is that the West does not care about Ukrainian lives as long as they can be used as cannon fodder to fulfill their bottom line. That is where the blood lust of the west and the naivety of the Ukrainians can be observed.


By not arming Ukraine you let Russia capture Ukrainian cities easier and reach their objectives quicker. I fail to see how this would be more desirable to the Ukrainians than supporting them in their struggle to defend their own country against an invading Russian army.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1325389177177960448@Hassan Al-Somal

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502750960434696193
Ukrainian mlrs

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502609620392681473


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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502756052445671426

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502756327323537413

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## RescueRanger

Hamartia Antidote said:


> I just thought of another benefit of the Bell V-280 tiltrotor - MediVac. Having Russian troops sent to Belarus hospitals is not ideal. I'm sure they'd rather treat them in Russia. 400 miles from Kharkiv, Ukraine to Moscow is easy for a V-280.
> 
> View attachment 823609


Well the Russians have established three field hospitals that we know about so far:




Field hospital on the outskirts of Belgorod on the Russian/Ukraine Border:





Crimea 





Belarusian border.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502620241926541313

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502660753396019204

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501230771096657921


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## sal29

Messerschmitt said:


> Yes, I do believe supporting Ukraine in their fight and supplying them with weapons to defend themselves is the right thing to do but I don't think your analogy describes the actual situation even remotely. Ukraine is a sovereign nation and is therefore allowed to freely choose who to align with. If they perceived Russia to be a threat and saw joining the NATO as a way to protect themselves, so be it.
> 
> Because Russia started a war with Ukraine by invading their country and clearly has ill intent.
> 
> By not arming Ukraine you let Russia capture Ukrainian cities easier and reach their objectives quicker. I fail to see how this would be more desirable to the Ukrainians than supporting them in their struggle to defend their own country against an invading Russian army.





> Yes, I do believe supporting Ukraine in their fight and supplying them with weapons to defend themselves is the right thing to do but I don't think your analogy describes the actual situation even remotely. Ukraine is a sovereign nation and is therefore allowed to freely choose who to align with. If they perceived Russia to be a threat and saw joining the NATO as a way to protect themselves, so be it.


Really ... Funny how Cuba was not a sovereign nation and how the whole missile crisis happened in cold war. I guess the sovereign part only works if it is in western interest.



> Because Russia started a war with Ukraine by invading their country and clearly has ill intent.


No the war started because instead of striving for neutrality and seeking guarantees on that neutrality from both West and Russia the puppet regime installed by the West in Kiev decided to cross red lines. What did you think would have happened if during Cuban missile crisis the Cubans and Russians had not budged from their position.



> By not arming Ukraine you let Russia capture Ukrainian cities easier and reach their objectives quicker. I fail to see how this would be more desirable to the Ukrainians than supporting them in their struggle to defend their own country against an invading Russian army.


So you agree that you are only making it difficult for the Russians but in no way preventing it. What do you think the result would be on the Ukrainians for creating that difficulty. More lives lost more women and children killed, more teenagers dead. You really want to rationalize that giving them weaponry is a good thing for them ... or is it for you ... keep Russians occupied for as long as possible and while simultaneously fund privatized western military industrial complex. I guess few people will be getting really really rich from this war but I assure you it wont be the Ukrainian public.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502757752627769346

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## Foinikas

Clutch said:


> Any good Azov; is a dead Azov.
> 
> Goodbye Nazis.
> 
> 
> 
> If the USA and Israel can use depleted Uranium bombs and Phosphorus Bombs in Palestine and the rest of the middle East.... What's the issue with the same in Ukraine. Let hell rain!.... No double standards.


Phosporus and depleted uranium ok for the Americans,but when the Russians use thermobaric or phosphorus it's haram! 
Halp NATO help! Oh Putin dictator,look at that! 

I expect Call of Duty and Battlefield to have even more games with evil Russians now. Not that they ever stopped. In their games the enemy was always the Russian,the Arab,sometimes the Chinese and the German.


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## RescueRanger

*Situation map as of March 11, 2022:*





Kyiv AO:





Northeast AO:





Kharkiv & Donbas AO





Southern AO

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502757884744110082

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## RescueRanger

Even pro Ukrainian analysts and opinionators now seem to realise the ever present threat of a protracted war that may draw the US and NATO into a quagmire. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502761117839372288


The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502757884744110082
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502738685388902404

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## Foinikas

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502757752627769346


Oh f...it's Communists shouting anti-NATO comments again:

"No water and earth to the murderers of the peoples"... and something about imperialism. Communist Party rally unfortunately. These people protest against the Americans and NATO about everything. Economy? Politics? Racism? Real vs Manchester United?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502744305001242627

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502732964475592713
In Volnovakha, liberated from the Ukrainian army, the flag of the DPR was raised


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502679430690480132

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502723221371731976

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502655754943225858

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## RescueRanger

_Important tweet from the IAEA about the status of the Zaporizhzhya NPP:_


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502751877427048454


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502653046140063747

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## RescueRanger

RescueRanger said:


> Even pro Ukrainian analysts and opinionators now seem to realise the ever present threat of a protracted war that may draw the US and NATO into a quagmire.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502761117839372288
> 
> View attachment 823627


Here we go:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502768327214698503

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502767739722768396


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## thetutle

sal29 said:


> So you agree that you are only making it difficult for the Russians but in no way preventing it. What do you think the result would be on the Ukrainians for creating that difficulty. More lives lost more women and children killed, more teenagers dead. You really want to rationalize that giving them weaponry is a good thing for them ... or is it for you ... keep Russians occupied for as long as possible and while simultaneously fund privatized western military industrial complex. I guess few people will be getting really really rich from this war but I assure you it wont be the Ukrainian public.


By that logic do you agree that the Palestinians have lost the war and no one should arm them, because its just creating more suffering and deaths? Is giving weaponry to them really a good thing?


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502615485480902656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502643544376414211

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502613191502749697

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502569132474179590

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## LeGenD

A young Ukrainian woman's shout-out from her underground shelter in Kyiv:

*Olha Oltarzhevska* has explained how before the war started, she lived “without knowing grief”, studied at university in Kyiv, played musical instruments, started taking Spanish courses and “lived a happy life” – and has for the past four years worked as a public relations specialist.

"Previously, I communicated with local media, but now, due to circumstances, I switched to international ones,” she said, adding that amid Russians having been “mercilessly” bombing her city for a fortnight, she and her family have been living in the basement for more than a week now, with children, the youngest of whom is a two-year-old.

"It’s the gates of insanity on the edge of humanity,” she states. "Explosions are heard every day. For the time being, we are not going to run anywhere from the city or from the country. Firstly, it is very risky, and secondly, our neighbours brought their children and a large number of pets to us. Therefore, we must take care of them. We are the only ones who have a basement in the house.”

She also cited a friend saying her mother gave an update on the situation in Mariupol. The city, which has a population of 446,000, has come under attack, with a children's hospital and maternity ward severely damaged last week, killing three people, and which Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky denounced as an “atrocity”. Mariupol has seen its death toll pass 1,500 in 12 days of attack, the mayor's office said.

The Ukrainian government said on Saturday that Russian forces pounding the port city shelled a mosque that was sheltering more than 80 people, including children, while fighting raged in the outskirts of Ukraine's capital, Kyiv, and Russia kept up its bombardment of other resisting cities.

Ukraine's military said on Saturday that Russian forces captured Mariupol's eastern outskirts, tightening the armed squeeze on the strategic city. Taking Mariupol and other ports on the Azov Sea could allow Russia to establish a land corridor to Crimea, which it seized from Ukraine in 2014.

Ms Oltarzhevska said her friend said: “There is no water, no food, people are sitting in the bunker, everyone is vomiting... people are dying just from dehydration, all humanitarian convoys heading to Mariupol are being shelled by the Russian military, people are lying in the streets, they are gone. It's genocide.

"The Russian military wanted to blow up a nuclear power plant in our country, they are aiming at hospitals, kindergartens and even dropped a bomb on... cemeteries.”

Ms Oltarzhevska added that Russia is waging war “not only on the battlefield, but also on the information front” – while she praised Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky as “very brave”.

Her update adds to the reports coming from the besieged country that reveal the impact of attacks, including an image from photographer Sergei Supinsky showing an abandoned doll next to a car riddled with bullets in Irpin, just north of Kyiv.

Other developments include President Zelensky accusing Russia of kidnapping the mayor of the southern port city of Melitopol.





__





'The gates of insanity on the edge of humanity': Ukrainian woman sends video showing life in bunker amid Russian siege






www.msn.com





Related:









Ukraine student shares video from inside makeshift bomb shelter in Kyiv


22-year-old student Olha Oltarzhevska has given a tour of the makeshift bomb shelter




www.dailypost.co.uk













Ukrainian tells of terrifying experiences - The Shetland Times


Shetland has continued to show its solidarity with Ukraine.




www.shetlandtimes.co.uk

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502600743295016960


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## thetutle

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502732964475592713
> In Volnovakha, liberated from the Ukrainian army, the flag of the DPR was raised
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502679430690480132


Australian ACDC music being played on a Russian propaganda video. I hope the account holder gets sued. Russia show down a passenger plane full of Australians.

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## sal29

thetutle said:


> By that logic do you agree that the Palestinians have lost the war and no one should arm them, because its just creating more suffering and deaths? Is giving weaponry to them really a good thing?


I certainly don't agree that we should arm every Palestinians and ask them to fight fully armed and trained Israeli military. I would rather have the Muslim world fight on their behalf for their right of existence and their land and their history. I would rather see the Muslim world reign those 2000Ib bombs (that Israel drops on innocent people of Gaza) on Tel Aviv but that would be heartless of me considering loss of woman and children living there even though they enjoy the suffering caused by them on the Palestinians. 

And by the way no one is arming them not like the west is arming Ukraine. Those small rockets they fire are mostly out of frustration and really doesn't make any impact on the wider scope of things. But the Israelis raise building with civilians to the ground through their western supplied weapons so please don't dare to say 70+ years of rape, murder, torture and genocide committed by the Zionists is the same as what Russians are doing to the Ukrainians.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502751607175323649


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502598661141848067


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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502681715428380678

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502769007602008066

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502583308445798401

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## V. Makarov

In response to a PDF member who was spewing out propaganda that Ukraine is run by Neo-Nazis, and Pro-Russians are executed on sight, I wrote the following comment:


......this is Cherry picking of the highest order. The Neo-Nazis in Ukraine account for less than 2% of the voters. They are the American equivalent of the Neo-confederates of America. Stop generalizing Ukrainian extremist to the whole country, and claiming that they are in charge of the country.

These are the same concerns every modern Islamic country is crying about: to stop generalizing extremism. But for some reason PDF members like you, want to do the same thing for Ukraine. I don't understand why you spew out biased Russian propaganda. You are the equivalent of western journalists who were supporting US claims of Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction in the early 2000s, just for the sake of justifying the hawkish rhetoric.

You and your hostility towards the West aside, you must not let go of the ground realities and facts. If you call the Iraq war a crime against humanity, you MUST call the Ukraine war a crime against humanity. Modern people who have access to facts, and have access to social media, will never pay heed to your baseless emotional propaganda.

Just for a reference, I have attached a picture of the atrocities of USSR against Ukraine for 70 years. This image might help you conceptualize the reasons given by the Ukrainian president, and almost every citizen of Ukraine, for why they are fighting against Russia with everything they have got.








THESE ATROCITIES, ABOVE, ARE WHAT EVERY EAST EUROPEAN STATE IS RUNNING AWAY FROM.

Every person in Ukraine has heard stories from their grandparents about the lives they lived under Moscow's reign. Ukrainians might fight Russia till the end.

@dBSPL @F-22Raptor

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502575061487820800

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RescueRanger

*The Russians have effectively wiped the city of Volnovakha off the face of the Ukrainian map: *


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502773110533148678

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498290252548616192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499704100379934721

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## FairAndUnbiased

Paul2 said:


> Yes, and this is why Europe's best interest to Yugoslavia Russia now, while they still can.
> 
> There is no telling how many Chamberlains are lining up in European capitals now to offer populace low taxes, and cheap petrol in exchange for votes.


try it and find out lmao


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502569815189463041

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502760615848427520


----------



## thetutle

sal29 said:


> I certainly don't agree that we should arm every Palestinians and ask them to fight fully armed and trained Israeli military. I would rather have the Muslim world fight on their behalf for their right of existence and their land and their history. I would rather see the Muslim world reign those 2000Ib bombs (that Israel drops on innocent people of Gaza) on Tel Aviv but that would be heartless of me considering loss of woman and children living there even though they enjoy the suffering caused by them on the Palestinians.
> 
> And by the way no one is arming them not like the west is arming Ukraine. Those small rockets they fire are mostly out of frustration and really doesn't make any impact on the wider scope of things. But the Israelis raise building with civilians to the ground through their western supplied weapons so please don't dare to say 70+ years of rape, murder, torture and genocide committed by the Zionists is the same as what Russians are doing to the Ukrainians.


yeah ok fair enough, at least you apply the same standards to all. Some nations and people are more inclined to surrender and be subservient and some a more inclined to fight for their freedom. even at the expense of total annihilation. compare American Indians and africans. American natives could not be used as slaves, they just wont do it. you can kill them they wont do it. 

Once the Ukrainians are defeated, if they are defeated, they, just like the Chechens will be mustered and unleashed onto the western world. It will take 5 to years but just like the Chechens they will forget what was done to them, it will be illegal to talk about in the greater Russian empire and their Russian overlords will send them to their deaths against Poland or turkey or whoever russia choses to occupy next. 

So it makes every sense to arm them now and give the a fighting chance, and if russia does win, they get a wasteland that will take generations to rebuild given the crippling economic sanctions. 

The west did not become the global leader and conquer the world by being stupid.

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## FairAndUnbiased

RescueRanger said:


> *The Russians have effectively wiped the city of Volnovakha off the face of the Ukrainian map: *
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502773110533148678
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498290252548616192
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499704100379934721


didn't they say this city was 'retaken' by Ukrainian forces in this post according to this twitter???

so was this a horrible war crime by Russia wiping Volnovakha off the map or a stomping of weak Russian forces and retaking of the hero city Volnovakha by the holy, strong, brave Ukrainian forces?

Which is it? It can't be both. Either the city still exists and was retaken, or it doesn't exist.

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## Iron Shrappenel

RescueRanger said:


> Here we go:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502768327214698503


Hopefully middle east would get a breather now.... All concentration on Europe.... I wonder how the Russians would return the favor for French and other european nation soldiers deployed in Africa...

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## Iron Shrappenel

sur said:


> They probably took the wrong highway.
> When the war will be over, brother will still be on their way coming.
> 
> I am tired of watching their "arrival" videos for last 2 weeks.
> 
> "ارے اب آ بھی چکو"
> 
> Besides the way they walk in tight group, if that became a habit, they will be an easy target.
> Angels may not be able to supply _hoerrs_ at a rate quick enough for such a large group of brothers showing up at once.


They've been deployed... These seem like auxiliary units.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502762910933782528

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1 | Sad Sad:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502758607489843201

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502732479513481222


----------



## RescueRanger

Iron Shrappenel said:


> Hopefully middle east would get a breather now.... All concentration on Europe.... I wonder how the Russians would return the favor for French and other european nation soldiers deployed in Africa...


Off topic check this thread out - developing story: US Consulate in Erbil attacked with multiple rockets - 









Erbil, Iraq: Ballistic Missiles used to strike a house near US Consulate


Reports that the rockets were fired from within Iran: - - - - - Update # 1 https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/erbil-iraq-reported-rocket-attack-near-us-consulate.737451/post-13624370 Update # 2...



defence.pk


----------



## sal29

thetutle said:


> yeah ok fair enough, at least you apply the same standards to all. Some nations and people are more inclined to surrender and be subservient and some a more inclined to fight for their freedom. even at the expense of total annihilation. compare American Indians and africans. American natives could not be used as slaves, they just wont do it. you can kill them they wont do it.
> 
> Once the Ukrainians are defeated, if they are defeated, they, just like the Chechens will be mustered and unleashed onto the western world. It will take 5 to years but just like the Chechens they will forget what was done to them, it will be illegal to talk about in the greater Russian empire and their Russian overlords will send them to their deaths against Poland or turkey or whoever russia choses to occupy next.
> 
> So it makes every sense to arm them now and give the a fighting chance, and if russia does win, they get a wasteland that will take generations to rebuild given the crippling economic sanctions.
> 
> The west did not become the global leader and conquer the world by being stupid.



First of you all you are no longer a global leader .. you were but not anymore. It is a multipolar world.

If you really want to know of which people did not surrender then those would be the Afghanis who never stopped fighting even after 20 years of constant brutal occupation by 30+ NATO nations lead by the so called global leader. And this time around they didn't even had the stingers which they had during the Russian invasion. I guess the Russians were too stupid not to have used this opportunity but that is water under the bridge. You were kicked in the as* and sent home.



> The west did not become the global leader and conquer the world by being stupid.


Of course not the west did not become global leader by being stupid. They became global leader by genocide and robbing people's land and resources. They became global leaders by commiting crimes so horrendous that even the Mongols would be horrified.

Talking about Native Americans ... they could not be used as slaves ... well that is entirely true do read some history. One would think that they would learn from crimes they committed against them and African but apparently not. Now you keep them in reservations where they have no access to clean water or good healthcare. It is nothing to be proud of how you became global leaders. Your ancestors and your current regimes especially the American have their hands sullied with blood of innocent people you maimed, raped and tortured.

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## zartosht

A question for nazi apologists here:

If they are a fringe 1-2% minority the western shitstream media yells you. Then why the shit didnt ukraine get rid of them loooong time ago. 

If they are aupposedly so small and fringe, then their bad PR would not even remotely be worth their battlefield contributions. 

But off course shitstream media of the west is lying. Pictures dont lie. In the 2014 coup, if you look at all the armed thugs that invaded ukrainian government buildings in kiev… 90% were skinhead/nazi looking turds. 

In addition azov and right wing formations are the ukies best troops by faaar. These nazis are what saved the ukies from collapse in 2015 war. 

They are the absolute heart and muscle of the ukie military. Anybody who denies this has been force fed too much western propaganda, has an agenda.. or are simply stupid.

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## thetutle

sal29 said:


> Your ancestors and your current regimes especially the American have their hands sullied with blood of innocent people you maimed, raped and tortured.


My ancestors were ottomans, for a while, but yes I get the drift. You are not wrong.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502635747467309061


----------



## sal29

thetutle said:


> My ancestors were ottomans, for a while, but yes I get the drift. You are not wrong.


By you I don't really mean you personally (I by no means have any personal issues with anyone in the west) I mean the west in general, there policies as a whole.


----------



## thetutle

zartosht said:


> A question for nazi apologists here:
> 
> If they are a fringe 1-2% minority the western shitstream media yells you. Then why the shit didnt ukraine get rid of them loooong time ago.
> 
> If they are aupposedly so small and fringe, then their bad PR would not even remotely be worth their battlefield contributions.
> 
> But off course shitstream media of the west is lying. Pictures dont lie. In the 2014 coup, if you look at all the armed thugs that invaded ukrainian government buildings in kiev… 90% were skinhead/nazi looking turds.
> 
> In addition azov and right wing formations are the ukies best troops by faaar. These nazis are what saved the ukies from collapse in 2015 war.
> 
> They are the absolute heart and muscle of the ukie military. Anybody who denies this has been force fed too much western propaganda, has an agenda.. or are simply stupid.


You are more obsessed with Nazis and fear them more than the world zionist congress.

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## LeGenD

zartosht said:


> A question for nazi apologists here:
> 
> If they are a fringe 1-2% minority the western shitstream media yells you. Then why the shit didnt ukraine get rid of them loooong time ago.
> 
> If they are aupposedly so small and fringe, then their bad PR would not even remotely be worth their battlefield contributions.
> 
> But off course shitstream media of the west is lying. Pictures dont lie. In the 2014 coup, if you look at all the armed thugs that invaded ukrainian government buildings in kiev… 90% were skinhead/nazi looking turds.
> 
> In addition azov and right wing formations are the ukies best troops by faaar. These nazis are what saved the ukies from collapse in 2015 war.
> 
> They are the absolute heart and muscle of the ukie military. Anybody who denies this has been force fed too much western propaganda, has an agenda.. or are simply stupid.











Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


What a ridiculous thing to say. Military culture plays a huge role in where a general is on the battlefield It appears that Russia has adopted the Iranian style jn syria. They also lost a general there who was personally on the field directing his troops Iran lost alot of top officers...



 defence.pk





+









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


What a ridiculous thing to say. Military culture plays a huge role in where a general is on the battlefield It appears that Russia has adopted the Iranian style jn syria. They also lost a general there who was personally on the field directing his troops Iran lost alot of top officers...



defence.pk





- - - -

Russian narrative of Donbas is half-baked and misleading on many counts as well. 









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


frustrated at Irans geopolitical situation? are you kidding? Iran hasnt been sitting this pretty since Nader Shahs time.... just as we secured our geopolitical sphere of foreign influence, ended our dependence on oil revenue, made a durable economy able to withstand any sanction the west can...



defence.pk





The sheer amount of resistance that Russian forces encountered in Mariupol is but a reminder.


----------



## Wood

Vice news interviews Zelenskyy!

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502753326965874689

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502532986729807872


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## thetutle

sal29 said:


> By you I don't really mean you personally (I by no means have any personal issues with anyone in the west) I mean the west in general, there policies as a whole.


yeah sure. Everyone will support the side that gives them more. The victims of the west will watch this an think Christmas (or Bayram) has come early for them.

Anyone exploited or murdered by the west will see russia as a white knight. And thats fine. Russia does not need any support from anyone to do what they are doing. 

Similarly, the west does not need any support. If anyone gets in their way and threatens them and does not have nukes or Russia as support will get crushed like an ant. This is natural. 

So I respect your views even though they are against my interests, knowing that you have no say in this like me. 

Its a spectacle of human misery done in order for one ruling empire (west) to crush another dying empire (russia).

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## Iron Shrappenel

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> This Z sign is iconic and trending. I think this may become the major ICONIC sign just like that German Nazi sign was the major popular sign that went down in folklore but this ''Z'' Will become the father of WW3 and enter folklore


There is going to be no ww3 chill bro.
This is all a ploy by NATO. Here are some of the things that they have achieved through this conflict....
>Increase military spending by Europe.
> Reduce Russian influence in other parts of the world.
> Destroying Ukrainian Industrial might that was a key partner in many " rogue " country projects that don't fall in either block such as Turkey and Pakistan.
> Polarisation to achieve their objectives.
Most probably the fall of Kiev would be the nail in the coffin for this conflict. Ukraine would sign a treaty to not join Nato... Donetsk may become her own republic... And in worst case scenario. Ukraine might become a land locked country... In the meanwhile sanctions on Russia would mean Middle east would mint money through soaring oil prices.... How would you pay for that oil ? Through US bills... Creating demand for dollars and offsetting the previous minting spree they've been on.....
All during this most of Europe would be suffering through Russian sanctions.... Now how long would they play ball with US in paying higher crude prices could be a question....

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## zartosht

thetutle said:


> You are more obsessed with Nazis and fear them more than the world zionist congress.



Depends on what nazi you talking about. Modern day nazis are a zionist tool. 

Its unfortunate that you cant see that.

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## sal29

thetutle said:


> yeah sure. Everyone will support the side that gives them more. The victims of the west will watch this an think Christmas (or Bayram) has come early for them.
> 
> Anyone exploited or murdered by the west will see russia as a white knight. And thats fine. Russia does not need any support from anyone to do what they are doing.
> 
> Similarly, the west does not need any support. If anyone gets in their way and threatens them and does not have nukes or Russia as support will get crushed like an ant. This is natural.
> 
> So I respect your views even though they are against my interests, knowing that you have no say in this like me.
> 
> Its a spectacle of human misery done in order for one ruling empire (west) to crush another dying empire (russia).



Yea I get your point. 

Just an addition I certainly don't see Russians as the white knights. I consider them the aggressors which are spilling blood just like they have spilled blood in Afghanistan and in Chechnya before. What I am trying to convey is that the Ukrainians are not fighting for their interests but rather they are fighting for interests of the west which really pisses me off because their so called leaders are using their own people as cannon fodder to promote someone else's strategic interests.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502716705981804547

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## Tamerlane

thetutle said:


> Ukraine is a battle in a larger war. A war that will end with a western victory and a Russian loss.



This war is setting the stage for a final showdown which will involve a nuclear exchange. I think that no matter which side we support in this conflict, every single one of us is going to emerge out of this as a loser.

After the collapse of the USSR there was an opportunity for the US to become the undisputed leader of the whole world. That is, if they used their power to genuinely promote peace, democracy, economic and technological development etc. around the world. That would have included solving conflicts like Palestine, Kashmir etc and ridding the world of hunger and disease. They had the power to do that, but they didn't.

Instead they went berserk and launched a war on 1.8 billion Muslims, killing up to 20 million people or more. That was a horrendous crime.

What does "Western" culture mean anymore? Christianity, which taught morality, has been thrown away. What we're left with is free sex, pornography, drugs, alcoholism, LGBTQ, unstable relationships, high divorce, low birth rates, obsessive materialism, neo-nazis, etc. In America there are fully armed black and white militias that look like militaries that are ready to go to war against each other when the time comes.

Additionally, there's huge gaps in income, with some millionaires and billionaires enjoying life while the masses are poor and are barely surviving from week to week.

You know that the West has lost all claim to being arbiters of morality when the US embassy hangs LGBTQ flags outside.

Sorry, but I don't think that the West, as it is, is sustainable. It's a failed society. The world can do much better than that. I think that, sooner or later, this conflict will result in a nuclear holocaust, and then the people who are left alive will build a better world.

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## CrazyZ

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> This Z sign is iconic and trending. I think this may become the major ICONIC sign just like that German Nazi sign was the major popular sign that went down in folklore but this ''Z'' Will become the father of WW3 and enter folklore


WORLD WAR Z!


----------



## LeGenD

sal29 said:


> Yea I get your point.
> 
> Just an addition I certainly don't see Russians as the white knights. I consider them the aggressors which are spilling blood just like they have spilled blood in Afghanistan and in Chechnya before. What I am trying to convey is that the Ukrainians are not fighting for their interests but rather they are fighting for interests of the west which really pisses me off because their so called leaders are using their own people as cannon fodder to promote someone else's strategic interests.


FYI









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


frustrated at Irans geopolitical situation? are you kidding? Iran hasnt been sitting this pretty since Nader Shahs time.... just as we secured our geopolitical sphere of foreign influence, ended our dependence on oil revenue, made a durable economy able to withstand any sanction the west can...



defence.pk


----------



## thetutle

sal29 said:


> Yea I get your point.
> 
> Just an addition I certainly don't see Russians as the white knights. I consider them the aggressors which are spilling blood just like they have spilled blood in Afghanistan and in Chechnya before. What I am trying to convey is that the Ukrainians are not fighting for their interests but rather they are fighting for interests of the west which really pisses me off because their so called leaders are using their own people as cannon fodder to promote someone else's strategic interests.


is it so hard to understand that ukranians dont want to be Russian slaves. They've had enough. Nobody would vote to be with russia. Let the Chechens, dagestanis, tatars, Belorussians vote. Ask them. No one wants to be with russia. Noone. Most Russians in ukaraine dont want to be with russia. They are fighting for their freedom right now.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502671401895010313

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Iron Shrappenel

RescueRanger said:


> Off topic check this thread out - developing story: US Consulate in Erbil attacked with multiple rockets -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Erbil, Iraq: Ballistic Missiles used to strike a house near US Consulate
> 
> 
> Reports that the rockets were fired from within Iran: - - - - - Update # 1 https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/erbil-iraq-reported-rocket-attack-near-us-consulate.737451/post-13624370 Update # 2...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


Meri kaali zaban 🤣


----------



## Wood

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502671401895010313


Is Belarus not already sanctioned? Neither US nor EU would think twice about putting economic sanctions on this country even under normal circumstances

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## thetutle

Tamerlane said:


> I think that, sooner or later, this conflict will result in a nuclear holocaust, and then the people who are left alive will build a better world.


Or probably kill each other over the remaining scarce resources,


----------



## sal29

thetutle said:


> is it so hard to understand that ukranians dont want to be Russian slaves. They've had enough. Nobody would vote to be with russia. Let the Chechens, dagestanis, tatars, Belorussians vote. Ask them. No one wants to be with russia. Noone. Most Russians in ukaraine dont want to be with russia. They are fighting for their freedom right now.


Really where did you get these facts ... the cnn or the bbc. 

Chechnens have came to fight on Russian behalf because they really are against the Russians. The Donbass region people are fighting with the Russian because they really dont want to be with Russia. Crimea opened doors for the Russian without even a fight because they really want to join the west. It is this kind of MSM brainwashing that west have done that program their people to accept any wishful thinking to be accepted as a fact.


----------



## thetutle

sal29 said:


> Really where did you get these facts ... the cnn or the bbc.
> 
> Chechnens have came to fight on Russian behalf because they really are against the Russians. The Donbass region people are fighting with the Russian because they really dont want to be with Russia. Crimea opened doors for the Russian without even a fight because they really want to join the west. It is this kind of MSM brainwashing that west have done that program their people to accept any wishful thinking to be accepted as a fact.


Do you really think Chechens support russia or like russia, or want to fight for russia? Do you really believe that? Did you know that Russians killed about 15% of their entire population 20 years ago?

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## Indian Libertarian

thetutle said:


> is it so hard to understand that ukranians dont want to be Russian slaves. They've had enough. Nobody would vote to be with russia. Let the Chechens, dagestanis, tatars, Belorussians vote. Ask them. No one wants to be with russia. Noone. Most Russians in ukaraine dont want to be with russia. They are fighting for their freedom right now.


Russia is essentially justifying the war based on security issues. That on itself won’t pacify an occupied populace. If one engages in conquest there has to be an ideology or end goal. Russian Empire was kept together by admiration of the Tsar, Soviet Union was united with socialism, what is modern day Russia seeking? That’s what I question.

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## The SC

Wheat prices / ton:







2 years ago: $506

A year ago: $638

Now with the war in Ukraine: $1106

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## Iron Shrappenel

Indian Libertarian said:


> Russia is essentially justifying the war based on security issues. That on itself won’t pacify an occupied populace. If one engages in conquest there has to be an ideology or end goal. Russian Empire was kept together by admiration of the Tsar, Soviet Union was united with socialism, what is modern day Russia seeking? That’s what I question.


Long term occupation might not be the plan... Holding strategic locations and mass migration would be... Another explanation for the all inclusive bombardment....


----------



## Indian Libertarian

The SC said:


> Wheat prices / ton:
> 
> View attachment 823655
> 
> 
> 2 years ago: $506
> 
> A year ago: $638
> 
> Now with the war in Ukraine: $1106


The high wheat prices caused Arab Spring, right? There may be instability in the Middle East.


----------



## sal29

thetutle said:


> Do you really think Chechens support russia or like russia, or want to fight for russia? Do you really believe that? Did you know that Russians killed about 15% of their entire population 20 years ago?



And the Germans killed millions in western Europe in world war 2 and they are best friends now. The blacks were enslaved and killed by the millions yet they live together and have joined American armed forces. The Americans wiped two Japanese cities off the planet yet they are allies. Should I go on ?

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## Indian Libertarian

Iron Shrappenel said:


> Long term occupation might not be the plan... Holding strategic locations and mass migration would be... Another explanation for the all inclusive bombardment....


Mass Migration doesn’t make sense considering Putin justifies his actions by speaking of the brotherly bond between Russia and Ukraine. Obviously the war shows that such a belief is not held in most of Ukraine. Loss of population will make those lands Russia captures essentially useless.


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

Indian Libertarian said:


> Mass Migration doesn’t make sense considering Putin justifies his actions by speaking of the brotherly bond between Russia and Ukraine. Obviously the war shows that such a belief is not held in most of Ukraine. Loss of population will make those lands Russia captures essentially useless.


Let's see how things unfold....

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## Tamerlane

thetutle said:


> Or probably kill each other over the remaining scarce resources,



There's only one person from human history who can prevent mankind from destroying itself. Someone who can stop Christians from killing each other or Muslims.

Jesus Christ.

hmm

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## thetutle

sal29 said:


> And the Germans killed millions in western Europe in world war 2


ummmm, no they didn't kill millions in western europe. 


sal29 said:


> The blacks were enslaved and killed by the millions yet they live together and have joined American armed forces.


they do have a history of subservience. unfortunately, they were bred for subservient traits by genocidal white slave masters over 300 years. Yes white masters literally selected who was going to breed with whom and eliminated the ones that were deemed not suitable. its quite sick when you think about it. 


sal29 said:


> The Americans wiped two Japanese cities off the planet yet they are allies. Should I go on ?


Japanese are still occupied by the US armed forces and dont have a say on who their allies are and dont have a say on which weapons they can build and have. If given the choice, you might be surprised. 

Chechens are the afghan national government with whiter skin. Ready to desert ready to kill Russians at the first opportunity. If a Chechen soldier sees an unarmed Russian Soldier in the field together with a Ukrainian unarmed soldier in the field, and the Chechen is the only one with a gun, and there is noone anywhere, ask yourself, would you rather be the Ukranian or the Russian facing that Chechen? I'll tell you, I would rather be the Ukrainian.


----------



## beast89

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502615485480902656
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502643544376414211
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502613191502749697
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502569132474179590


Chechens are on a warpath. Real life Sardaukar


----------



## K_Bin_W

kingQamaR said:


> Putin's forces may eventually prevail through sheer numbers, ignoring casualties, and viciously annihilating whole areas. But then comes the occupation, and no Russian soldier or administrator will ever be safe. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians who have lost husbands, wives, children, grandparents - as well as home and country - will exact a terrible revenge.


If Put-Ins objectives are met rest is irrelevant, no NATO at its door steps...PEROID.


----------



## The SC

beast89 said:


> Chechens are on a warpath. Real life Sardaukar


Apparently.. so far the Chechens play the role of military Police.. that's it..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502677641790476288


----------



## Tamerlane

K_Bin_W said:


> If Put-Ins objectives are met rest is irrelevant, no NATO at its door steps...PEROID.



Put-In hasn't put it all the way in yet. When he does there will be a lot more shrieking and no more periods.


----------



## sal29

thetutle said:


> ummmm, no they didn't kill millions in western europe.
> 
> they do have a history of subservience. unfortunately, they were bred for subservient traits by genocidal white slave masters over 300 years. Yes white masters literally selected who was going to breed with whom and eliminated the ones that were deemed not suitable. its quite sick when you think about it.
> 
> Japanese are still occupied by the US armed forces and dont have a say on who their allies are and dont have a say on which weapons they can build and have. If given the choice, you might be surprised.
> 
> Chechens are the afghan national government with whiter skin. Ready to desert ready to kill Russians at the first opportunity. If a Chechen soldier sees an unarmed Russian Soldier in the field together with a Ukrainian unarmed soldier in the field, and the Chechen is the only one with a gun, and there is noone anywhere, ask yourself, would you rather be the Ukranian or the Russian facing that Chechen? I'll tell you, I would rather be the Ukrainian.



Yea you might think that but it doesn't make them facts.



> ummmm, no they didn't kill millions in western europe.


Really I thought they killed millions in the holocaust alone not to mention people killed in the war. Yet the Germans and the Zionists are best friend these days. Maybe you are just considering only western Europe then ok.



> Japanese are still occupied by the US armed forces


The Japs are no longer occupied and do make their own decision much more independently compared to EU. They have treaty which is different from occupation.



> Chechens are the afghan national government with whiter skin


I am sorry to say but your regard for ANA is way out of proportion. The ANA had no legs and no chest just a head which ran. They are nothing alike. The Chechnyans fought valiantly against an overwhelming adversary but now they have come to terms with them just like the Germans and the French and the British came to terms with each other. It is now quite stable and progressing so I don't think they will start a fight with the Russians the first , the second or even the third chance they get. They are allowed to live in peace, practice their religion as they deem fit unlike the west where few countries have banned Hijab or even in extreme cases just a basic covering of the body on a beach (The French).

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## LeGenD

Proof Of Russia Using Suicide Drones In Ukraine Emerges​Well into its third week, Russia's invasion of Ukraine continues to morph as new capabilities are brought to bear and new tactics are deployed. While Russia's side of the conflict appears to have been surprisingly light on the use of unmanned aerial vehicles, that is changing. Russia is now posting UAS footage from the front lines much as it did with Syria. And now, for the first time, it is confirmed that Russian suicide drones/loitering munitions have been employed, as well. 









Proof Of Russia Using Suicide Drones In Ukraine Emerges


The latest from Russia's invasion of Ukraine as it nears its 18th day.




www.thedrive.com

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## thetutle

sal29 said:


> They are allowed to live in peace, practice their religion as they deem fit unlike the west where few countries have banned Hijab or even in extreme cases just a basic covering of the body on a beach (The French).


they are are allowed to live in a dictatorship within a tyranny. if they go to Russia where actual Russians live, they face bans on hijab in places, 









The Islamic veil across Europe


How approaches to the Muslim veil differ across Europe.



www.bbc.com






> Russia's Stavropol region has a ban on hijabs - the first of its kind imposed by a region in the Russian federation. The ruling was upheld by Russia's Supreme Court in July 2013.



The few places where muslims can wear wear what they want in the evil Angloshpere.


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## K_Bin_W

Tamerlane said:


> Put-In hasn't put it all the way in yet. When he does there will be a lot more shrieking and no more periods.


You missing the big picture, Put-In say no NATO so no NATO..PEROID.. The rest is all noise.

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## SQ8

If the Russians knew how to fight and were prepared with logistics they could have finished this in a awek with the equipment they had in theatre. Instead the state of preparation of the Russians makes me think if they ever went up against even a single US battlegroup it would be a cake walk for US forces.

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## sal29

thetutle said:


> they are are allowed to live in a dictatorship within a tyranny. if they go to Russia where actual Russians live, they face bans on hijab in places,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Islamic veil across Europe
> 
> 
> How approaches to the Muslim veil differ across Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The few places where muslims can wear wear what they want in the evil Angloshpere.


 
As I said I am not talking about Russia in general just Chechnya.

On a different note ... To be honest I don't really care what west does regarding these ban on women. It is there country and they can make whatever law they deem fit. Just don't pretend to be working for human rights and thinking you have moral high ground.


----------



## RescueRanger

LeGenD said:


> Proof Of Russia Using Suicide Drones In Ukraine Emerges​Well into its third week, Russia's invasion of Ukraine continues to morph as new capabilities are brought to bear and new tactics are deployed. While Russia's side of the conflict appears to have been surprisingly light on the use of unmanned aerial vehicles, that is changing. Russia is now posting UAS footage from the front lines much as it did with Syria. And now, for the first time, it is confirmed that Russian suicide drones/loitering munitions have been employed, as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof Of Russia Using Suicide Drones In Ukraine Emerges
> 
> 
> The latest from Russia's invasion of Ukraine as it nears its 18th day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com




The bellow images show the remains of a shot down Kalashnikov Zala Aero roving munition (Suicide Drone). You can see the warhead failed to detonate with the explosive lattice still containing the ball bearings. 











March 12th 2022 - Kyiv

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Hard to disagree with this Emiriti journalist.. The outcome of Ukraine will be significiant and he put it down precisely and note his perspective is neutral but his just weighing on the geopolitical outfall and significiance it will have post-ukraine war


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502739019205066762

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## thetutle

Tamerlane said:


> After the collapse of the USSR there was an opportunity for the US to become the undisputed leader of the whole world. That is, if they used their power to genuinely promote peace, democracy, economic and technological development etc. around the world. That would have included solving conflicts like Palestine, Kashmir etc and ridding the world of hunger and disease. They had the power to do that, but they didn't.
> 
> Instead they went berserk and launched a war on 1.8 billion Muslims, killing up to 20 million people or more. That was a horrendous crime.


yeah we blew it man. Our leaders blew it. hijacked by zionism and greed. 

year 2000 was it seems the zenith of power of the west, and instead of solving these critical problems they/we went to war with islam. Giving china time to develop, build cars and stop using bicycles. Russia to turn from an ideological regime to a mafia regime. 

but im not sure if anything could have been done to steer russia to something like Poland. It was probably always destined to be run by the KGB who were out of work. 

And now we all have to pay for it.

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## Tamerlane

thetutle said:


> yeah we blew it man. Our leaders blew it. hijacked by zionism and greed.
> 
> year 2000 was it seems the zenith of power of the west, and instead of solving these critical problems they/we went to war with islam. Giving china time to develop, build cars and stop using bicycles. Russia to turn from an ideological regime to a mafia regime.
> 
> but im not sure if anything could have been done to steer russia to something like Poland. It was probably always destined to be run by the KGB who were out of work.
> 
> And now we all have to pay for it.



If you listen to Putin’s speech he said that in the year 2000 he asked Bill Clinton to let Russia into NATO. There was the chance to integrate Russia into the Western world. They refused. It’s a separate issue that having Russia in NATO might have meant a total holocaust of Muslims. 

The point is that Russians think of themselves as European Christians and part of the West. But some vested interests did not let them in. Who? Probably Zionists and the weapons industry. 

America and the West seem to be in a self-destruct mode. People like you and I will go down with it.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

New mayor installed in Russia-controlled Melitopol after the Ukrainian city's elected mayor was detained​From CNN's Paul P. Murphy and Josh Pennington

The Zaporozhye regional administration says a new mayor has been installed in the Ukrainian city of Melitopol, which is under Russian military control, after the elected mayor was detained on Friday. 

Ivan Fedorov, the elected mayor of Melitopol, was detained by armed men on Friday and accused of terrorism offenses by the prosecutor's office for the separatist Russia-backed Luhansk region.

The newly installed mayor is Galina Danilchenko, a former member of the city council, according to a statement on the Zaporozhye regional administration website.

Danilchenko, who was not elected by the people, was introduced as the acting mayor on local TV, the statement said.
In her televised statement, which was posted by the administration on Telegram, Danilchenko said her "main task is to take all necessary steps to get the city back to normal." 
She claimed there were people still in Melitopol who would try to destabilize "the situation and provoke a reaction of bad behavior."

"I ask you to keep your wits about you and not to give in to these provocations," Danilchenko said. "I appeal to the deputies, elected by the people, on all levels. Since you were elected by the people, it is your duty to care about the well-being of your citizens." 

Danilchenko proposed the creation of a "People's Choice Committee" to "solve all the critical issues for Melitopol and the Melitopol region." 









March 12, 2022 Russia-Ukraine news


Russian forces are expanding their offensive in Ukraine to the west for the first time. Major cities, including Dnipro and Lutsk, were struck Friday, Ukrainian officials said, as fighting intensified closer to Kyiv. Follow here for live news updates.




www.cnn.com

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## Type59

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502818697743851521


T 64 and old video before conflict.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502828804062035972

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502828806150754306

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502828806918320133

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502828807702687744

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## Avicenna

Tamerlane said:


> This war is setting the stage for a final showdown which will involve a nuclear exchange. I think that no matter which side we support in this conflict, every single one of us is going to emerge out of this as a loser.
> 
> After the collapse of the USSR there was an opportunity for the US to become the undisputed leader of the whole world. That is, if they used their power to genuinely promote peace, democracy, economic and technological development etc. around the world. That would have included solving conflicts like Palestine, Kashmir etc and ridding the world of hunger and disease. They had the power to do that, but they didn't.
> 
> Instead they went berserk and launched a war on 1.8 billion Muslims, killing up to 20 million people or more. That was a horrendous crime.
> 
> What does "Western" culture mean anymore? Christianity, which taught morality, has been thrown away. What we're left with is free sex, pornography, drugs, alcoholism, LGBTQ, unstable relationships, high divorce, low birth rates, obsessive materialism, neo-nazis, etc. In America there are fully armed black and white militias that look like militaries that are ready to go to war against each other when the time comes.
> 
> Additionally, there's huge gaps in income, with some millionaires and billionaires enjoying life while the masses are poor and are barely surviving from week to week.
> 
> You know that the West has lost all claim to being arbiters of morality when the US embassy hangs LGBTQ flags outside.
> 
> Sorry, but I don't think that the West, as it is, is sustainable. It's a failed society. The world can do much better than that. I think that, sooner or later, this conflict will result in a nuclear holocaust, and then the people who are left alive will build a better world.



Almost perfect post.

I just hope you are wrong about the nuclear exchange part.

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## thetutle

Tamerlane said:


> If you listen to Putin’s speech he said that in the year 2000 he asked Bill Clinton to let Russia into NATO. There was the chance to integrate Russia into the Western world. They refused. It’s a separate issue that having Russia in NATO might have meant a total holocaust of Muslims.
> 
> The point is that Russians think of themselves as European Christians and part of the West. But some vested interests did not let them in. Who? Probably Zionists and the weapons industry.
> 
> America and the West seem to be in a self-destruct mode. People like you and I will go down with it.


They could not join nato. because you cant become nato when you are run by the KGB. 

you need to reform the country, make it into a functioning democracy, have rule of law. give up ideas of reviving your empire. They could never be NATO. not without real reforms.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502795827235885065

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502812940545626112

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502807844428656640


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## clockwork

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502280830835740673


I can't help but cringe every time I see Charles Molister: infamous jihadist, Al-Nusra Front recruitment department, posted unironically.

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## tower9

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> New mayor installed in Russia-controlled Melitopol after the Ukrainian city's elected mayor was detained​From CNN's Paul P. Murphy and Josh Pennington
> 
> The Zaporozhye regional administration says a new mayor has been installed in the Ukrainian city of Melitopol, which is under Russian military control, after the elected mayor was detained on Friday.
> 
> Ivan Fedorov, the elected mayor of Melitopol, was detained by armed men on Friday and accused of terrorism offenses by the prosecutor's office for the separatist Russia-backed Luhansk region.
> 
> The newly installed mayor is Galina Danilchenko, a former member of the city council, according to a statement on the Zaporozhye regional administration website.
> 
> Danilchenko, who was not elected by the people, was introduced as the acting mayor on local TV, the statement said.
> In her televised statement, which was posted by the administration on Telegram, Danilchenko said her "main task is to take all necessary steps to get the city back to normal."
> She claimed there were people still in Melitopol who would try to destabilize "the situation and provoke a reaction of bad behavior."
> 
> "I ask you to keep your wits about you and not to give in to these provocations," Danilchenko said. "I appeal to the deputies, elected by the people, on all levels. Since you were elected by the people, it is your duty to care about the well-being of your citizens."
> 
> Danilchenko proposed the creation of a "People's Choice Committee" to "solve all the critical issues for Melitopol and the Melitopol region."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> March 12, 2022 Russia-Ukraine news
> 
> 
> Russian forces are expanding their offensive in Ukraine to the west for the first time. Major cities, including Dnipro and Lutsk, were struck Friday, Ukrainian officials said, as fighting intensified closer to Kyiv. Follow here for live news updates.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com


I wonder if this model is a sign of what is to come. If they topple Zelensky’s govt.


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## Wood

tower9 said:


> I wonder if this model is a sign of what is to come. If they topple Zelensky’s govt.


It will be more interesting to see how such puppet administrations are recieved by the people


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## thetutle



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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

tower9 said:


> I wonder if this model is a sign of what is to come. If they topple Zelensky’s govt.



Hate them or love them but there is one thing nobody can disagree with about the russians which I deeply admire. They are so freaking ice-cold and unapologetic about it.

They didn't yield to all this gibberish sounds being made and imho they showchased true character of strength and a giant.

Russia is gonna eat it's fill without asking for it and the fact that they are already appointing new mayor's is completely badass

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## thetutle




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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502751905294032902

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501018554933653506

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## Titanium100

Mariupol is one hell'va fortress and stand strong... Russians have been grilled here


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502709410904387588


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## Wood

Good breakdown of technology sanctions on Russia.

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## sammuel

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Hate them or love them but there is one thing nobody can disagree with about the russians which I deeply admire. They are so freaking ice-cold and unapologetic about it.



Bad a*s ? 

2.5 million refuges ? whole cities that might get demolished ?

I can think of many other words to describe a dictator that does stuff like that. . .

Specially when there is no reason for it. War could end right now if Putin wanted , instead of playing dice with the fate of the world.

~

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## Indian Libertarian

What was the furthest advance of LPR/DPR troops in 2014?


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## patero

sammuel said:


> Bad a*s ?
> 
> 2.5 million refuges ? whole cities that might get demolished ?
> 
> *I can think of many other words to describe a dictator that does stuff like that. . .*
> 
> Specially when there is no reason for it. War could end right now if Putin wanted , instead of playing dice with the fate of the world.
> 
> ~


I'll give you three specific words to describe his state of mind: Advanced Onset Dementia.


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## Flight of falcon

sammuel said:


> Bad a*s ?
> 
> 2.5 million refuges ? whole cities that might get demolished ?
> 
> I can think of many other words to describe a dictator that does stuff like that. . .
> 
> Specially when there is no reason for it. War could end right now if Putin wanted , instead of playing dice with the fate of the world.
> 
> ~




Israelis do that for fun every few month...demolishing cities and houses of million of Palestinian refugees on their own land.

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## sammuel

Flight of falcon said:


> Israelis do that for fun every few month...demolishing cities and houses of million of Palestinian refugees on their own land.



When missiles fly on our cities we fight back. Have the Ukrainians attacked Russia ?


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## Flight of falcon

sammuel said:


> When missiles fly on our cities we fight back. Have the Ukrainians attacked Russia ?




really ever heard of pre emptive attacks? then why are you guys attacking Syrian targets?

would you not attack Iran if they became a serious threat to Israel?

Russians are doing the same to eliminate the future threats just on a much bigger scale.

At least Russians are not delibaretly targeting civilian houses and shooting little kids to show their manhood.....something Israeli inbred army specializes in.


----------



## sammuel

Flight of falcon said:


> Russians are doing the same to eliminate the future threats just on a much bigger scale.



What future threat ? Ukraine already agreed not to join NATO and military Ukraine is no threat to Russia .

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502866800912093186

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## Flight of falcon

sammuel said:


> What future threat ? Ukraine already agreed not to join NATO and military Ukraine is no threat to Russia .




Please show when they did that before the war started ???


----------



## unrequitted_love_suzy

As Israel avoids sanctioning oligarchs, 14 private jets arrive from Russia​








As Israel avoids sanctioning oligarchs, 14 private jets arrive from Russia — report


Some planes landing in past 10 days appear to be rented, a possible sign wealthy Russians are looking to slip around financial penalties imposed after Moscow's Ukraine invasion




www.timesofisrael.com






Fourteen private jets that have taken off from Russia have landed at Ben Gurion Airport in the past 10 days, Channel 12 news reported Friday, as Israel continues to avoid joining Western sanctions against Russian oligarchs in the wake of Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine.

Last week, Channel 12 reported that an unusual number of rented private jets have been flying from Russia to Israel since the invasion of Ukraine, a possible indication that some wealthy Russians are looking at ways to slip around sanctions imposed to punish their country for the attack.

The outlet said at least seven private jets were chartered from a company that provides jets for hire in Europe, and originated in Turkey. Tracking data showed the planes made trips from Turkey to Moscow and St. Petersburg, then from those cities to Tel Aviv.









At least 14 private jets from Russia landed in Israel in the past 10 days amid the latest round of oligarch sanctions


Multiple planes reportedly took off from St. Petersburg and landed at Ben Gurion Airport in recent days, according to reports.




news.yahoo.com






At least 14 private jets from Russia have landed in Israel in the past 10 days amid the latest round of sanctions targeting oligarchs​
Bennett advises Zelensky to surrender to Russia, Zelensky refuses​









Ukrainian defense official: We appreciate Bennett’s mediation


Lubkivskyi was positive about Jerusalem and showed understanding of its delicate situation with Moscow, which is the dominant force over Israel’s northern border with Syria.




www.jpost.com

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502804357527580672

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## sammuel

Flight of falcon said:


> Please show when they did that before the war started ???



I am talking about today , about stopping this pointless destruction of a country NOW !

Ukraine says no longer insisting on NATO membership​









In nod to Russia, Ukraine says no longer insisting on NATO membership


President Volodymyr Zelensky said he is no longer pressing for NATO membership for Ukraine, a delicate issue that was one of Russia's stated reasons for invading its pro-Western neighbor.




www.france24.com







Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502804357527580672



mmm , they can go back to the old trading ways :

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## unrequitted_love_suzy

Russia shells mosque housing 80 civilians in Mariupol: Ukraine​
_Kyiv says more than 80 people, including Turkish citizens, were seeking refuge at the mosque when it was bombarded._


----------



## khansaheeb

thetutle said:


> By that logic do you agree that the Palestinians have lost the war and no one should arm them, because its just creating more suffering and deaths? Is giving weaponry to them really a good thing?


This was UK and EU position on Bosnia and they imposed an arms embargo on all sides, which basically meant Bosnia would not have any weapons to defend it self as the Serbs had plenty already and were sent shipments from Russia. UK with that evil Tory Douglas Hurd felt an arms embargo would reduce bloodshed just as they felt imposing sanctions on Apartheid South Africa would hurt the black natives.

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## Bleek

unrequitted_love_suzy said:


> Russia shells mosque housing 80 civilians in Mariupol: Ukraine​
> _Kyiv says more than 80 people, including Turkish citizens, were seeking refuge at the mosque when it was bombarded._


"Kyiv says" 

Lol, don't believe a word coming from them

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## Wood

sammuel said:


> I am talking about today , about stopping this pointless destruction of a country NOW !
> 
> Ukraine says no longer insisting on NATO membership​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In nod to Russia, Ukraine says no longer insisting on NATO membership
> 
> 
> President Volodymyr Zelensky said he is no longer pressing for NATO membership for Ukraine, a delicate issue that was one of Russia's stated reasons for invading its pro-Western neighbor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.france24.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mmm , they can go back to the old trading ways :


They will probably use swipe cards

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502812062820544512


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502888238226231298
Another Russian fighter shot down

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## Clutch




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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502888765714534400


----------



## Clutch

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502812062820544512




The fist ✊ symbol is the same one that American "NGO" for regime change have used around the world!!!
.. watch here...






Now you know who is sponsoring and manufacturing dissent



unrequitted_love_suzy said:


> Russia shells mosque housing 80 civilians in Mariupol: Ukraine​
> _Kyiv says more than 80 people, including Turkish citizens, were seeking refuge at the mosque when it was bombarded._



This has already been proven to be fake News...



sammuel said:


> When missiles fly on our cities we fight back. Have the Ukrainians attacked Russia ?



Hindu cities???

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## Clutch

thetutle said:


> is it so hard to understand that ukranians dont want to be Russian slaves. They've had enough. Nobody would vote to be with russia. Let the Chechens, dagestanis, tatars, Belorussians vote. Ask them. No one wants to be with russia. Noone. Most Russians in ukaraine dont want to be with russia. They are fighting for their freedom right now.



Ukrainian have always switched sides throughout history... Care to refute this???....








thetutle said:


> Do you really think Chechens support russia or like russia, or want to fight for russia? Do you really believe that? Did you know that Russians killed about 15% of their entire population 20 years ago?



You are correct. Most Chechens are of that thinking. However, the Chechens under Ramzan Kadyrov are supporting Putin.


----------



## Clutch

Tamerlane said:


> This war is setting the stage for a final showdown which will involve a nuclear exchange. I think that no matter which side we support in this conflict, every single one of us is going to emerge out of this as a loser.
> 
> After the collapse of the USSR there was an opportunity for the US to become the undisputed leader of the whole world. That is, if they used their power to genuinely promote peace, democracy, economic and technological development etc. around the world. That would have included solving conflicts like Palestine, Kashmir etc and ridding the world of hunger and disease. They had the power to do that, but they didn't.
> 
> Instead they went berserk and launched a war on 1.8 billion Muslims, killing up to 20 million people or more. That was a horrendous crime.
> 
> What does "Western" culture mean anymore? Christianity, which taught morality, has been thrown away. What we're left with is free sex, pornography, drugs, alcoholism, LGBTQ, unstable relationships, high divorce, low birth rates, obsessive materialism, neo-nazis, etc. In America there are fully armed black and white militias that look like militaries that are ready to go to war against each other when the time comes.
> 
> Additionally, there's huge gaps in income, with some millionaires and billionaires enjoying life while the masses are poor and are barely surviving from week to week.
> 
> You know that the West has lost all claim to being arbiters of morality when the US embassy hangs LGBTQ flags outside.
> 
> Sorry, but I don't think that the West, as it is, is sustainable. It's a failed society. The world can do much better than that. I think that, sooner or later, this conflict will result in a nuclear holocaust, and then the people who are left alive will build a better world.



Truer words haven't been spoken on this thread! +1

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502899141999013891

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502900675574960128

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## CIA Mole

Indian Who Joined Ukrainian Paramilitary To Fight Russia Wants 'To Return Home'


Twenty-one-year-old R Sainikhesh, an engineering student from Tamil Nadu had joined the Ukrainian paramilitary force to fight Russia. However, back in the country, his parents are worried and expect him to return soon. His father Ravichandran said that Sainikhesh is willing to return to his...



www.indiatimes.com

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## kingQamaR

K_Bin_W said:


> If Put-Ins objectives are met rest is irrelevant, no NATO at its door steps...PEROID.



Putin lied to you , Russia already borders nato baltic states you’ve been swept up with Russia disinformation, Ukraine was a buffer zone between nato Poland and Russia now what !

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502904080355794946

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502905594692395008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502904774135623683

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502902937839882245

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502757477712027654

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## CIA Mole

kingQamaR said:


> Putin lied to you , Russia already borders nato baltic states you’ve been swept up with Russia disinformation, Ukraine was a buffer zone between nato Poland and Russia now what !


thats why this was the last straw

russia held back their complaints during every NATO expansion

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## Clutch

*Uncle Sam's Nazi Warriors*

By Mike Whitney
March 11, 2022:

“I have spoken with my Western colleagues about denazification. They say:” What’s the problem? You also have radical nationalists, don’t you?” Yes, we do, but we don’t have them in our government like Ukraine. And we don’t have thousands of people marching in the streets with torches and swastikas like Nazi Germany in the 1930s? And we don’t praise the men who killed Russians, Jews, and Poles during the war. But in Ukraine, they do.” Vladimir Putin, Russian President

*The United States has been arming and training far-right militants that are the ideological descendants of Nazi war criminals *that were directly involved in the mass-extermination of Jews, Slavs and Gypsies during the Second World War. These Ukrainian storm troopers are among the most vicious and malignant combatants Washington has ever employed to implement its foreign policy agenda. Naturally, Washington sees these fascist-zealots as mere pawns in its proxy war on Russia. Even so, the ‘alliance of convenience’ does not diminish the fact that Uncle Sam is now in bed with right-wing militants whose spiritual leader, Adolph Hitler, was responsible for the deaths of tens of millions of people as well as the destruction of large parts of Europe and Russia. Check out this clip from an article titled “*Can Ukraine have a ‘Nazi problem’ with a Jewish president?:*
“Ukraine really does have a far-right problem, and it’s not a fiction of Kremlin propaganda. And it’s well past time to talk about it,” explained journalist and expert on the Ukrainian far right, Michael Colborne.
The most known neo-Nazi group on Ukraine’s far right is the Azov movement. The movement grew out of the Azov Regiment (originally a Battalion), formed in the chaos of war in early 2014.
It was formed by a “ragtag group of far-right thugs, football hooligans and international hangers-on, including dozens of Russian citizens,” said Colborne, who wrote a book on the movement.”(“Can Ukraine have a ‘Nazi problem’ with a Jewish president?”, Jewish Unpacked)
While Russian President Vladimir Putin is committed to removing Ukraine’s Nazis from power, it is uncertain how he will do so. Self-identified fascists now hold positions of authority in the military, the government and the Security Services. They have also been the driving force behind the 8 year-long siege of the Donbass region in east Ukraine that is mainly inhabited by ethnic Russians. The militants’ hatred for their Slavic brothers suggests that Hitler’s racial theories are being ruthlessly applied in 21st Century Europe. Here’s an excerpt from an article at The Saker Blog:

*“Since the Western-backed coup in Kiev in 2014, political organizations associated with neo-Nazis infiltrated Ukrainian mainstream politics as the Ukrainian government sent troops to try to crush the Donbass uprisings by force.*
As Ukraine waged war against breakaway forces in the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics, the Neo-Nazi Groups in Ukraine gained notoriety for their belligerent rhetoric towards the population of the country’s east, as well as for eagerly participating in the civil war….
The (Azov Battalion’s) first commander was right-wing nationalist Andriy Biletsky, who led the paramilitary national socialist group called “Patriot of Ukraine” and was the founder of a neo-Nazi group, the Social-National Assembly (SNA) in 2008. In 2010, Biletsky, a former parliamentarian, apparently said that Ukraine was meant to “lead the white races of the world in a final crusade … against Semite-led Untermenschen (subhumans) ”by reports in a spate of Western mainstream outlets.” (“Ukrainian bad guys and a fair Russian response“, Batko Milacic for the Saker Blog)
Readers should take a minute to savor Washington’s duplicity on this matter, after all, while the Biden administration and the entire MSM was denouncing the January 6 protestors as “racists” and “white supremacists”, the US government was busy arming and training “white crusader” Nazis to carry out its war on Russia. What’s that all about? If there was an Academy Award for hypocrisy, Uncle Sam would be the hands-down favorite. Here’s more from the same piece:
“Azov took part in subsequent hostilities in Donbass and was incorporated into the National Guard of Ukraine in November 2014, although its members continued to wear neo-Nazi and SS-like symbols and regalia and openly express neo-Nazi views.

Their logo echoes the Wolfsangel, one of the original symbols used by the 2nd SS Panzer Division Das Reich. Representatives of the Azov Battalion, however, have claimed their symbol is an abbreviation for the slogan “National Idea” in Ukrainian.
Ukrainian authorities did not bother to conceal the fact that in 2014, *Azov comprised neo-Nazi-leaning volunteers from countries such as Sweden, Italy, France, Belarus, Canada, and Slovenia.*

Despite the adoption of the 2015 Minsk Accords that were aimed at ending the civil war by reintegrating the Donbass into Ukraine in exchange for constitutionally-guaranteed autonomy, Kiev refused to implement a peace deal. Azov members took an active part in Donbass hostilities.

In 2016, the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) accused the Azov Battalion, officially upgraded to a regiment in January 2015, of committing war crimes such as mass looting, unlawful detention, and torture. Currently, the Azov “Special Operations Detachment” is engaged in the Ukrainian army’s counter-reconnaissance and special weapons operations.

The Russian Investigative Committee has opened a criminal case against a number of fighters from Azov units for crimes such as kidnapping, torture, use of prohibited means, and methods of warfare.” (“Ukrainian bad guys and a fair Russian response”, Batko Milacic for the Saker Blog)

Again, these are not your garden-variety, right-wing militants. These are full-fledged, battle-hardened Nazi storm troopers that have engaged in all-manner of illegal and sadistic activities including “the mass killing of prisoners, the concealment of corpses in mass graves and the systematic use of physical and psychological torture techniques.” And while they are lavishly supported by the United States, they oppose everything that America claims to stand for. They are universally opposed to liberal democracy, parliamentary government and racial equality. Instead, they advocate social regimentation, autocratic rule and glorification of the state. Race is very much at the core of Nazi Doctrine. (which may explain the animus these fascist groups have for the ethnic Russians in the east.) A few quotes from Hitler’s manifesto Mein Kampt help to illustrate this point:
“A stronger race will drive out the weaker ones, for the vital urge in its ultimate form will break down the absurd barriers of the so-called humanity of individuals to make way for the humanity of nature which destroys the weak to give their place to the strong.”

“Blood sin and desecration of the race are the original sin of this world and the end of a humanity that surrenders to it.” (“Adolf Hitler, Quotes on Race”, quotetab)

The above quotes provide a window into the ideology that was used to justify a world war against “inferior people” who were seen as expendable in the eyes of their Aryan overlords. Why– you may ask– is the US supporting the adherents of this same fiendish dogma in Ukraine today?

We can’t answer that, but here’s more background from an article by Monseigneur Carlo Maria Vigano:
“*Neo-Nazi movements engaged in military and paramilitary actions operate freely in Ukraine, often with the official support of public institutions. These include the following: Stepan Bandera’s Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN), a movement with a Nazi, anti-Semitic and racist matrix already active in Chechnya and which is part of the Right Sector, an association of far-right movements formed at the time of the Euromaidan coup in 2013/2014; the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA);* the UNA/UNSO, paramilitary wing of the far-right political party Ukraine National Assembly; the Korchinsky Brotherhood, which offered protection in Kiev to ISIS members;

*Misanthropic Vision (MD), a neo-Nazi network spread across 19 countries that publicly incites terrorism, extremism and hatred against Christians, Muslims, Jews, Communists, homosexuals, Americans and people of color.*

It should be remembered that the government has given explicit support to these extremist organizations both by sending the presidential guard to the funerals of their representatives, as well as by supporting the *Azov Battalion, a paramilitary organization that is officially part of the Ukrainian Army under the new name of Azov Special Operations* Regiment and organized into the National Guard. ..

In March 2015, Ukrainian Interior Minister Arsen Avakov announced that the Azov Battalion would be one of the first units to be trained by US Army troops, as part of their Operation Fearless Guard training mission. … “We have been training these guys for eight years now. They are really good fighters. That’s where the Agency’s program could have a serious impact.” (“Declaration of Msgr. Carlo Maria Viganò on the Russia-Ukraine Crisis”, marcotosatti.com)

Vigano is right, the US has been providing combat training to Ukrainian Nazis and other far-right groups in secret camps since 2015. These ultra nationalist militias will now pass along these same skills to tens of thousands of other like-minded militants increasing the global spread of fascism by many orders of magnitude. Here’s more from an article at Jacobin Magazine:
“*Not just the Ukrainian far right, but neo-fascist forces from all over the world, including the US and Europe, will now receive combat experience with the most advanced weapons in the world. They will also be able to continue developing their international networks, to which the Ukrainian far right, and especially the Azov Battalion, have long been central…*
… *since 2015, the CIA has been secretly training forces in Ukraine to serve as “insurgent leaders,” in the words of one former intelligence official, in case Russia ends up invading the country.* Current officials are claiming the training is purely for intelligence collection, but the former officials Yahoo! spoke to said the program involved training in firearms, “cover and move,” and camouflage, among other things.

Given the facts, there’s a good chance that the CIA is training actual, literal Nazis as part of this effort. The year the program started, 2015, also happened to be the same year that Congress passed a spending bill that featured hundreds of millions of dollars’ worth of economic and military support for Ukraine… (“*The CIA May Be Breeding Nazi Terror in Ukraine”*, Branko Marcetic, Jacobin Magazine)
But why has the United States gone to so much trouble to arm and train these combatants when it appears that the

Russian army is clearly going to win the war?
The plan to defeat Russia was never intended to succeed in the initial phase of the conflict, but to lay the groundwork for a bloody and protracted insurgency fought by these same CIA-trained paramilitaries who now act as Uncle Sam’s Nazi warriors. Here’s the story from Yahoo News:
“The CIA is overseeing a secret intensive training program in the U.S. for elite Ukrainian special operations forces and other intelligence personnel, according to five former intelligence and national security officials familiar with the initiative. The program, which started in 2015, is based at an undisclosed facility in the Southern U.S., according to some of those officials….
The training, which has included “tactical stuff,” is “going to start looking pretty offensive if Russians invade Ukraine,” said the former official. One person familiar with the program put it more bluntly. “The United States is training an insurgency,” said a former CIA official, adding that the program has taught the Ukrainians how “to kill Russians.”
Though the agency’s paramilitary resources have been otherwise stretched thin in Afghanistan and on other counterterrorism missions, the U.S.-based training program has been a “high priority” for the CIA since its Obama-era inception, said the former senior intelligence official…. The Biden administration has reportedly assembled a task force to determine how the CIA and other U.S. agencies could support a Ukrainian insurgency, should Russia launch a large-scale incursion.
“If the Russians invade, those [graduates of the CIA programs] are going to be your militia, your insurgent leaders,” said the former senior intelligence official. “We’ve been training these guys now for eight years. They’re really good fighters. That’s where the agency’s program could have a serious impact.”
Both U.S. and Ukrainian officials believe that Ukrainian forces will not be able to withstand a large-scale Russian incursion, according to former U.S. officials. But representatives from both countries also believe that Russia won’t be able to hold on to new territory indefinitely because of stiff resistance from Ukrainian insurgents, according to former officials.
If the Russians launch a new invasion, “there’s going to be people who make their life miserable,” said the former senior intelligence official. The CIA-trained paramilitaries “will organize the resistance” using the specialized training they’ve received.
“All that stuff that happened to us in Afghanistan,” said the former senior intelligence official, “they can expect to see that in spades with these guys.” (“CIA-trained Ukrainian paramilitaries may take central role if Russia invades”, Yahoo News)

*Let’s summarize:*

*1. * The United States has been arming and training Ukrainian fascist combatants in secret locations.
*2. * The CIA training program began in 2015 which suggests there must have been a plan for goading Russia into invading. Nothing would have been left to chance. Strategic planners must have settled on what provocations they would use. (like the threat of NATO membership)
*3. * Official Washington never thought the Ukrainian army could prevail against a conflict with the Russian Army, which suggests that the media’s stories about “the brave Ukrainian resistance” are reckless propaganda designed to garner greater public support.
*4. * The country of Ukraine and the Ukrainian people are of no interest to the United States. Ukraine is only valuable in as much as it provides a staging ground (and the manpower) for Washington to prosecute a war against Russia.
*5.* The clear strategic objective of the CIA program is to create an “Afghanistan-type” quagmire for Russia that will deplete its resources, inflict massive reputational damage, and kill as many Russian servicemen as possible.
*6.* The ultimate goal of the CIA-generated insurgency is to destroy the Russian economy, isolate the Russian leadership, and send home as many Russian boys in body-bags as possible in order to affect a regime change that will replace arch-rival Putin with a compliant stooge like Ukrainian Puppet Zelensky.
*7.* All the evidence suggests that the developments on the ground– including the luring of Russian troops into Ukraine– is part of a long-standing strategic plan to prevent the economic integration of Russia and Europe in order to control China’s development and preserve US hegemony into the next century. Thus, current US foreign policy can be summarized in just 10 words:
“*We’ll deal with Russia first, then move on to China.*



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502757477712027654



Hopefully they weren't Nazis.

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## sammuel

kingQamaR said:


> Putin lied to you , Russia already borders nato baltic states you’ve been swept up with Russia disinformation, Ukraine was a buffer zone between nato Poland and Russia now what !



Indeed , enough with with this NATO excuse , Ukraine already said they are willing to give up on this.

For two month Putin lied to the whole world , saying they had no intention to invade Ukraine , and they are just conducting drills on the border.

When a leader of a superpower , who holds so much power and the fate of the world in his hands , lies so bluntly to the whole world, i find this very disturbing.


Some here have a short memory , this was only 3 weeks ago :









'Russia has no plans to invade Ukraine or any other country'


Claims that Moscow is about to invade Ukraine are a "bluff", Vladimir Chizhov, Russia's ambassador to the EU, told Euronews. #Globalconversation




www.euronews.com





~

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## NotSure

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502757477712027654


"Russian tank" means in reality Azov opened the fire against fleeing civilians.

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## The SC

The base is Yavoryev base near the border with Poland


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502899572644978690

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502535437231046656

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## The SC

Syrian fighters volunteer to fight alongside Russia..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502913602461700096

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## kingQamaR

sammuel said:


> Indeed , enough with with this NATO excuse , Ukraine already said they are willing to give up on this.
> 
> For two month Putin lied to the whole world , saying they had no intention to invade Ukraine , and they are just conducting drills on the border.
> 
> When a leader of a superpower , who holds so much power and the fate of the world in his hands , lies so bluntly to the whole world, i find this very disturbing.
> 
> 
> Some here have a short memory , this was only 3 weeks ago :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Russia has no plans to invade Ukraine or any other country'
> 
> 
> Claims that Moscow is about to invade Ukraine are a "bluff", Vladimir Chizhov, Russia's ambassador to the EU, told Euronews. #Globalconversation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.euronews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~



Vlad doesn't care if anyone is left! he doesn't want the people, the roads, nothing, he wants the LAND and RESOURCES. These lot on here still go long saying it’s about nato what a joke Ukraine was never joining nato the then German chancellor metkel rejected it saying it was not right to let them in.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502805057770823682

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## The SC

@AlArabiya_Brk

The Syrian Observatory: More than 40,000 people have registered to fight in Ukraine

Russian news agency: Some Lebanese are ready to fight in Ukraine for Russia

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## coffee_cup

LeGenD said:


> Proof Of Russia Using Suicide Drones In Ukraine Emerges​Well into its third week, Russia's invasion of Ukraine continues to morph as new capabilities are brought to bear and new tactics are deployed. While Russia's side of the conflict appears to have been surprisingly light on the use of unmanned aerial vehicles, that is changing. Russia is now posting UAS footage from the front lines much as it did with Syria. And now, for the first time, it is confirmed that Russian suicide drones/loitering munitions have been employed, as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof Of Russia Using Suicide Drones In Ukraine Emerges
> 
> 
> The latest from Russia's invasion of Ukraine as it nears its 18th day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com



LOL @ Suicide drones!

When you think the Western media cant do any worse, they always surprise you! :-D

What next? Suicide rockets, suicide missiles? suicide mortars? 

LOL... seriously! 

Isnt a drone just another flying projectile which can be used in anyway seem fit by the user?

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## Ali_Baba

Russia jet plummers from sky after Ukrainian defence forces down it


A Russian jet was reportedly shot down in the Kharkiv region after footage emerged showing a plane plummeting to the ground in a ball of fire.




www.express.co.uk





Another one - a 2 seater today ? ( Su30SM or Su34? )

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## LeGenD

coffee_cup said:


> LOL @ Suicide drones!
> 
> When you think the Western media cant do any worse, they always surprise you! :-D
> 
> What next? Suicide rockets, suicide missiles? suicide mortars?
> 
> LOL... seriously!
> 
> Isnt a drone just another flying projectile which can be used in anyway seem fit by the user?



UAVs are utilized in following ways:

1. For surveillance.

2. As a platform to launch munitions much like a jet fighter:






3. As munitions (kamikaze):






Also identified as suicide drones - kamikaze UAV types have been used in conflicts before. Israeli HEROP is a notable example.

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## coffee_cup

LeGenD said:


> UAVs are utilized in following ways:
> 
> 1. For surveillance.
> 
> 2. As a platform to launch munitions much like a jet fighter:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. As munitions (kamikaze):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also identified as suicide drones - kamikaze UAV types have been used in conflicts before. Israeli HEROP is a notable example.



Thats the point.

Now the media is just trying to over dramatize it by using the word "SUICIDE" in headlines to evoke some kind of negative emotional reaction from the the public.

"Kamikaze" drone is not so sexy and would not have much of impact. :-D

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## kingQamaR

The SC said:


> Syrian fighters volunteer to fight alongside Russia..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502913602461700096
> View attachment 823733




Or an Apache with Hellfire missiles


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502942605289656322


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502964070084923398

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502814202305654786

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## Iñigo

From 6 years ago

This war started in 2014 and now the Russian army is ending it

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502930181773791235

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502959816100265984

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## thetutle

With these developments, I'd say the chances of NATO and russia military exchange is about 100%. 

It will most likely stay conventional. US base in Erbil attacked, Americans in Ukraine will start dying soon. There will be a response from the US,


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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502972671344189444

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## BHAN85

__





George Soros: "Vladimir Putin and the Risk of World War III"


Mar 11, 2022 GEORGE SOROS After receiving a green light from Chinese President Xi Jinping, Russian President Vladimir Putin launched his war in Ukraine in an effort to reclaim the old Russian empire. But both leaders appear to have misjudged the situation, raising the prospect of a global...



defence.pk

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## EvoluXon

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502930181773791235
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502959816100265984


lyiv is located near poland border so i am not surprised if russia has decided to take out west foreign legionnaires in these military camps.

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## Pehalwan Pintu Dedha

The country which has given you a place to live. You dream to live in a first world country and once you get there you get ample opportunities to live a good life for you and your coming generations,get good education,make good money and everything. Have some shame and stop talking shit about that country. You may not be happy with some of their policies but you cannot complain about the whole country.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

EvoluXon said:


> lyiv is located near poland border so i am not surprised if russia has decided to take out west foreign legionnaires in these military camps.




Yes, the ASB Military is reporting that it was a "training ground filled with NATO instructors”. Not sure how much truth to their claims though.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502963515207958528

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502962283391160320

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## M.AsfandYar

Only Specific people can do that, namely mods, professionals, and think tanks.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502965865150615559

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502989395078651907

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## Pehalwan Pintu Dedha

Bad news coming in - One of the New York Times Journalist Eye Hazel has been shot dead in Irpin.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502988193779625988

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502978365136986112

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502590221703168001

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## Kraetoz

Pehalwan Pintu Dedha said:


> Bad news coming in - One of the New York Times Journalist Eye Hazel has been shot dead in Irpin.


What kind of a name is Eye Hazel? Stop the Propaganda

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## Pehalwan Pintu Dedha

Kraetoz said:


> What kind of a name is Eye Hazel? Stop the Propaganda



It is in the news.









US vows 'consequences' as journalist shot dead by Russian forces in Ukraine


Tributes have been paid to the 'talented photographer and filmmaker'




inews.co.uk

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## Menthol

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502590221703168001



It's too bad that Russia fails to prevent genocide in Ukraine.

All people who still have hearts will weep about it.

Only the evil who will laugh over genocide!

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502990875210797062


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502956661979426816


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## Kraetoz

Pehalwan Pintu Dedha said:


> It is in the news.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US vows 'consequences' as journalist shot dead by Russian forces in Ukraine
> 
> 
> Tributes have been paid to the 'talented photographer and filmmaker'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> inews.co.uk


Appreciate you sharing the link. The article also doesn't mention Eye Hazel, or Eye Red or Eye Blue. That sounded like a propaganda.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502853582063915009

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502790665947779075


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## K_Bin_W

kingQamaR said:


> Putin lied to you , Russia already borders nato baltic states you’ve been swept up with Russia disinformation, Ukraine was a buffer zone between nato Poland and Russia now what !


Forget about Martians and Aliens that are bordering Russkies just stick to the situation at hand... When Shri Putin Says no NATO in Ukraine means no NATO in Ukraine. You should get out more often and listen to Shri Ukraine below.









In nod to Russia, Ukraine says no longer insisting on NATO membership


President Volodymyr Zelensky said he is no longer pressing for NATO membership for Ukraine, a delicate issue that was one of Russia's stated reasons for invading its pro-Western neighbor.




www.france24.com












Ukraine Nato Membership: In nod to Russia, Ukraine says no longer insisting on Nato membership | World News - Times of India


Europe News: President Volodymyr Zelensky said he is no longer pressing for Nato membership for Ukraine, a delicate issue that was one of Russia's stated reasons f




timesofindia.indiatimes.com





Shanti baba Shanti


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502998142949765121


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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502732210960482309

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502732318439522305

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502732547586932746

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502732760712155142

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## dBSPL

Pehalwan Pintu Dedha said:


> Bad news coming in - One of the New York Times Journalist Eye Hazel has been shot dead in Irpin.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502999522426949634


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## maverick1977

I blame everyone for this war... everyone has ego and agendas.

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## Wood

Economic Times: Tata Steel looks at other markets for coal imports.








Tata Steel looks at other markets for coal imports


Tata Steel will look at alternative markets for coal imports as transactions with Russian suppliers and bankers at present come with a "lot of uncertainties," managing director TV Narendran, told reporters on the sidelines of an event in Kolkata. The company used to buy upto 15% of its coal...




economictimes.indiatimes.com





For people who boast that X or Y country is 'stronk' and will therefore not abide by Western sanctions, this is a good illustration for how sanctions actually work.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503016810563702786

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## Lehrasap

Clutch said:


> Ukrainian have always switched sides throughout history... Care to refute this???....


What has the history to do with the present conflict?
You are wrong if you want to solve the present conflict in light of the history ... Care to refute this???

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## reflecthofgeismar

Ukraine Farming Simulator 2022: Armed Assault Expansion​

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## Daylamite Warrior

Lehrasap said:


> What has the history to do with the present conflict?
> You are wrong if you want to solve the present conflict in light of the history ... Care to refute this???


Sorry to state the blatantly obvious, but history is the background and context to everything that happens in the present and the future. It is all to do with history. Only people who want to pull the wool over people's eyes have disregard for history...and the irony is they are the first to resort to history when their own narrative needs to be aired. This is childsplay and totally off-topic.

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## Paul2

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503016810563702786



They didn't even need a pontoon there. It's shallow enough for a snorkel...

Or maybe their vehicles are so old, that all the sealing broke down

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## bobo6661

Looks like not to many happy with the saviors. 
If you dont understand what they chanting "russian soldier a Fascist occupier"

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## Pehalwan Pintu Dedha

Kraetoz said:


> Appreciate you sharing the link. The article also doesn't mention Eye Hazel, or Eye Red or Eye Blue. That sounded like a propaganda.



His ID card was shown on TV and that is where I read his name. I really don't understand why would I make up a name when the killing of a journalist news is true.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503028600878026752

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## zartosht

bobo6661 said:


> Looks like not to many happy with the saviors.
> If you dont understand what they chanting "russian soldier a Fascist occupier"



CIA has openly admitted to leaving "stay behind forces" in ukraine. 

these are agents trained to provoke agitation against Russians. Looks like we are seeing them in action . always have a similar script. Some innocent looking woman/man with a camera recording and provoking anti-Russia chants. This is the bread and butter of the CIA. Using animals to cause riots.

dont worry though, The Russians know how to take care of these animals.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502696598542893061

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503017600384745473

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## Lehrasap

Daylamite Warrior said:


> Sorry to state the blatantly obvious, but history is the background and context to everything that happens in the present and the future. It is all to do with history. Only people who want to pull the wool over people's eyes have disregard for history...and the irony is they are the first to resort to history when their own narrative needs to be aired. This is childsplay and totally off-topic.



Putin himself never mentioned this history of older centuries as a reason for his attack.

But we have people here whose minds are the center of "Conspiracy Theories", and thus they want to punish the Ukrainians of the present day of the behavior of the Ukrainians who passed away hundreds of years ago.


----------



## Meengla

kingQamaR said:


> Every country has biolabs to deal and study diseases, and many countries work together. Just like even the biolab in China had US and France co-operation until at one point China went in alone. That said, a biolab studying diseases is not the same thing as a weapons biolab. Even if US had a weapons biolab, Ukraine would be the last place anyone would put it. They might as well as make a weapons biolab in Putin's basement while at it.



Correct.
And unfortunately either Russia or other parties could blow up some biolab and blame the other side to really escalate the violence. Especially Putin could use the biological or chemical weapons to do something really drastic like tactical nukes or some massive bombs. There is no way Putin is going to accept to have lost the war if it comes to that. Dictators know their fate when that happens.

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## Pehalwan Pintu Dedha

zartosht said:


> CIA has openly admitted to leaving "stay behind forces" in ukraine.
> 
> these are agents trained to provoke agitation against Russians. Looks like we are seeing them in action . always have a similar script. Some innocent looking woman/man with a camera recording and provoking anti-Russia chants. This is the bread and butter of the CIA. Using animals to cause riots.
> 
> dont worry though, The Russians know how to take care of these animals.



Why don't you give your fifth generation stealth fighter Qaher to Russia as US & NATO is also gifting its weapons to Ukraine. Seeing performance of it in the battle field may help you to get more potential customer or is it not for export ?



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503017600384745473



Wrenched my heart. What a lovely lady and what a beautiful boy lost their life because of one crazy man. May they rest in eternal peace.

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## patero

Meengla said:


> Correct.
> And unfortunately either Russia or other parties could blow up some biolab and blame the other side to really escalate the violence. Especially Putin could use the biological or chemical weapons to do something really drastic like tactical nukes or some massive bombs. There is no way Putin is going to accept to have lost the war if it comes to that. Dictators know their fate when that happens.


Unleashing a Chimera virus in Ukraine and blaming those research labs is a real possibility, and Putin is fully capable of such a move. Both China and Russia are directing an unusual amount of attention on these research labs which are clearly not conducting bioweapons research.

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## CrazyZ

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502930181773791235
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502959816100265984


I expected the Russians to launch airstrikes western Ukraine much earlier to interdict the weapons flow from the west. Initially they were probably afraid of mishap with NATO......now it looks like gloves have come off.

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## Type59

patero said:


> Unleashing a *Chimera* virus in Ukraine and blaming those research labs is a real possibility, and Putin is fully capable of such a move. Both China and Russia are directing an unusual amount of attention on these research labs which are clearly not conducting bioweapons research.


Reference to Resistance game series on PlayStation?


----------



## patero

Type59 said:


> Reference to Resistance game series on PlayStation?


I'm not familiar with that game, the term was coined during the Soviet era referring to bioweapons programs.
_The Chimera Project attempted in the late 1980s and early 1990s to combine DNA from Venezuelan equine encephalitis and smallpox at Obolensk, and Ebola virus and smallpox at Vector. The existence of these chimeric viruses programmes was one reason why Alibek defected to the United States in 1992. Journal articles by scientists suggest that in 1999 the experiments were still being continued._








Soviet biological weapons program - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503018492999749639

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503042299147788289

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503052687293702156

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503054719610150921
An army of looters...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503059766909804545
@LeGenD @RescueRanger @F-22Raptor

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## beast89

Daylamite Warrior said:


> Sorry to state the blatantly obvious, but history is the background and context to everything that happens in the present and the future. It is all to do with history. Only people who want to pull the wool over people's eyes have disregard for history...and the irony is they are the first to resort to history when their own narrative needs to be aired. This is childsplay and totally off-topic.


lol he's an iranian exile dreaming about the shah

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503056840078331919

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## CrazyZ

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503056840078331919


Zelensky is going to start pleading for a no fly zone again very soon. Russians have left western Ukraine alone and it become a staging area for foreign insurgents and weapons. My sense is after the Mig 29 back down......the Russians calculated west would back down in western Ukraine as well if they went after it.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503026529915310085


----------



## ProudPak

Pehalwan Pintu Dedha said:


> Why don't you give your fifth generation stealth fighter Qaher to Russia as US & NATO is also gifting its weapons to Ukraine. Seeing performance of it in the battle field may help you to get more potential customer or is it not for export ?
> 
> 
> 
> Wrenched my heart. What a lovely lady and what a beautiful boy lost their life because of one crazy man. May they rest in eternal peace.


What did your heart do when Ukrainian forces were in Iraq killing Muslims. Oh sorry they were not blonde and blued eyed so it didn't matter. Carry on

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503000681787146241


----------



## Wood




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503004625963728896

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## coffee_cup

According to UNO, the number of dead civilians has increased to* 596* as of today.

This is really sad!

In another development, Russians claim to have killed upto 180 foreign mercenaries in an airstrike today morning and have destroyed a huge amount of weapons delivered by the West.

Ukraine however is giving the number of dead upto 35 or so. In any case it was a massive airstrike.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503053277210030084


----------



## CrazyZ

Tamerlane said:


> *Ukraine war: 'Sky turned red' as missiles hit Lviv military base*
> 
> At least 35 people died in the strike on the Yavoriv training base, near a major crossing point into Poland used by refugees from the conflict.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502997629914996739


Should I start digging out my dooms day bunker? NATO and Russia are about to go eye ball to eye ball.

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## Pehalwan Pintu Dedha

ProudPak said:


> What did your heart do when Ukrainian forces were in Iraq killing Muslims. Oh sorry they were not blonde and blued eyed so it didn't matter. Carry on



I had the same feeling when one of yours are blowing fellow pakistanis in mosque.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503066219661901836
Russian invaders destroyed


----------



## coffee_cup

@F-22Raptor Do you have any information about the massive airstrike on a military training center near Poland? They say 100s of foreign mercenaries are killed there, including dozens of Americans.

And also a huge amount of Western delivered weapons was destroyed.

Reading through your tweets, I thought Ukraine has completely destroyed the Russians, :- S 

Is it not so? Are you just trying to keep our morale high by some random tactical tweets? :- (


----------



## F-22Raptor

coffee_cup said:


> @F-22Raptor Do you have any information about the massive airstrike on a military training center near Poland? They say 100s of foreign mercenaries are killed there, including dozens of Americans.
> 
> And also a huge amount of Western delivered weapons was destroyed.
> 
> Reading through your tweets, I thought Ukraine has completely destroyed the Russians, :- S
> 
> Is it not so? Are you just trying to keep our morale high by some random tactical tweets? :- (




I’ve not seen any of that information, nor foreign soldiers killed, nor American. Weapons will continue to flow into Ukraine.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503073803576004611

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502990019585359873

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503081380644900867
Entire Russian convoy annihilated today


----------



## Microsoft

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503004625963728896





gambit said:


> Let us not jump to conclusion.
> 
> You have .1 second to shoot or no shoot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In that .1 second, your blood pressure is elevated, high on adrenaline to the point of vomiting, some hearing loss and ears ringing, physically stressed from carrying a heavy load as well as tired from running, and your vision is degraded from smoke or dust or rain or tears or even blood.
> 
> Shoot or no shoot.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503083485065535495

Another Russian convoy completely flattened

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## Mrc

Any updated maps of the conflict ?


----------



## coffee_cup

F-22Raptor said:


> I’ve not seen any of that information, nor foreign soldiers killed, nor American. Weapons will continue to flow into Ukraine.



Here ....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503056840078331919
In another news, Ukraine has admitted at least 35 dead and close to 200 injured. Plus weapons destroyed. : -(

So it must be somewhere in between...

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503085436889149441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503085438436786179

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503076475439915010

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503085527196700680

Russian losses have now passed 1,200 at minimum.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The Russian army has captured Izumy. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503037370660229120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503088067879608324

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## Ali_Baba

coffee_cup said:


> Here ....
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503056840078331919
> In another news, Ukraine has admitted at least 35 dead and close to 200 injured. Plus weapons destroyed. : -(
> 
> So it must be somewhere in between...



Unlikely to be true - the transport of weapons to Ukraine is being done via the land border via Poland and Romania / Slovkia and from there - using road routes to UAF depots - none of which have any reason to go to an airport as a staging area.

Whatever they "hit" at the airbase/port - it was not NATO supplied weapons .. 

The report / strike is more of a feel good good story for the Russia's for their own morale than one that has actual military value given that Nato are not sending supplies to UAF Airbases or airports ...

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503026525725147140


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503092006649745410

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503093431442288641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503093611830943746

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503093967012958214


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503055249313083393


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503088533057290240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503069155465080843

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## Pehalwan Pintu Dedha

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503085436889149441
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503085438436786179
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503076475439915010



Do you want to say Wali also died ?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Pehalwan Pintu Dedha said:


> Brother don't get me wrong but were you recruited by ISIS ? because your handle sounds like that only al hind, al kabul, al somal ?



ISIS members wouldn't be sharing Russian army advances. 



Pehalwan Pintu Dedha said:


> Do you want to say Wali also died ?



I have no idea what you mean by "Wali". Can you stay on topic?


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503096183425806342

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503096970226905093


----------



## Pehalwan Pintu Dedha

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I live in the West. ISIS members wouldn't be sharing Russian army advances.
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea what you mean by "Wali". Can you stay on topic?



Don't forget many of the ISIS members were from West and they use to name their fighter as like your handle. Sorry to say but I believe you are impressed with their ideology and that is the reason why you are loving this genocide.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503093943315042304

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## coffee_cup

I am utterly disgusted by the role of UNO.

This organization is completely useless. It was created to prevent wars (or looming world wars), but by becoming of tool for few powerful countries it has lost all its value. 

By not punishing all those war criminals in the previous decades and hence setting an example for anyone who would in future want to do such an adventure, it has become a lame duck.

So sad!

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## Tamerlane

A good source for getting the Russian side of the story is the Russian MOD Telegram app.

It can be found here: https://thesaker.is/russian-mod-early-morning-update/

▪️On the morning of March 13, a high-precision long-range weapon struck the training centres of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Starichi and at Yavorovsky training ground.

On the basis of these centres, the Kiev regime deployed: a training and combat coordination point for foreign mercenaries before being sent to combat areas against Russian military personnel, as well as a storage base for weapons and military equipment coming from foreign countries.

As a result of the strike, up to 180 foreign mercenaries and a large batch of foreign weapons were destroyed. 

The destruction of foreign mercenaries who have arrived on the territory of Ukraine will continue.

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## Pehalwan Pintu Dedha

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> ISIS members wouldn't be sharing Russian army advances.
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea what you mean by "Wali". Can you stay on topic?



I am not sure what are you doing on this thread if you have not heard about Wali. He is a canadian Sniper fighting for Ukraine, served in Afghanistan and Syria. He hold a world record of sniping an ISIS militant from approx 3.7 KM. What I came to learn that he killed seven Ruskies yesterday only.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503097642003628033

Russia has now been cut off from Western parts and certainly won’t have the money to modernize. The Russian military has decapitated itself for the next decade+.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502994051016052739

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502988725088931842

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503098811765436422

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503100152369889285


----------



## Vergennes

Chechens neutralized



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503080683924770821

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## Pehalwan Pintu Dedha

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502994051016052739
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502988725088931842



Hope you understand it now









World's Best Sniper 'Wali' Has Joined Ukrainian Forces Against Russia. Here's All You Need to Know About Him


According to reports, Wali reached Ukraine last week along with three former Canadian soldiers.




www.news18.com







Vergennes said:


> Chechens neutralized
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503080683924770821



Whoa they all must go to hell.


----------



## coffee_cup

Ali_Baba said:


> Unlikely to be true - the transport of weapons to Ukraine is being done via the land border via Poland and Romania / Slovkia and from there - using road routes to UAF depots - none of which have any reason to go to an airport as a staging area.
> 
> Whatever they "hit" at the airbase/port - it was not NATO supplied weapons ..
> 
> The report / strike is more of a feel good good story for the Russia's for their own morale than one that has actual military value given that Nato are not sending supplies to UAF Airbases or airports ...



This was not an airbase but some military training facility with 100s of foreign fighters stationed (foreign legion).

There is this video circulating from few Brazilians who survived it and got out just before the strike. They are telling that everyone inside it from many countries got eliminated.

I hope it is just propaganda and those people actually survived and will go back home to their families. War without massive air and logistic support, which they are used to in Iraq, Afghanistan etc, is no joke.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503087355636469763

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503100496550236167
The Russians now crying to the Chinese

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## sur

sur said:


> Won't comment on who did it, you conclude yourself.
> Allegedly, this is an image from Ukrainians controlled area where there are no Russians.
> Rather US mercenaries are present in this city (so it has to be a safe city, far from Russians). This image is from a video that mercenaries made while travelling in their car.
> Could be that civilians were trying to leave in this bus.
> 
> View attachment 823327




Source of img of *bullet riddled bus* probably inside *downtown* Kiev (Cannot be Russian fire, small bullets small weapon like KK etc used) :

Insta says it's *downtown* Kiev (apparently coming from *horse's mouth*).




__





Login • Instagram


Welcome back to Instagram. Sign in to check out what your friends, family & interests have been capturing & sharing around the world.




www.instagram.com






Notice that they used img of bullet riddled bus as the main picture for this video.
Probably bragging their deed (of killing civilians who were trying to escape?)?








Another source of same clip:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499632170159296513

One comment:









Vergennes said:


> Chechens neutralized
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503080683924770821



Very credible 👎.
*3 different floors* including a higher level apartment floor, in a post about one Chechen incidence.


----------



## Flight of falcon

Pehalwan Pintu Dedha said:


> I am not sure what are you doing on this thread if you have not heard about Wali. He is a canadian Sniper fighting for Ukraine, served in Afghanistan and Syria. He hold a world record of sniping an ISIS militant from approx 3.7 KM. What I came to learn that he killed seven Ruskies yesterday only.




Yes yes this guy killed 2300090 ISIS agents and 230002 ordinary citizens as well......absolutely a true fact.

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## LeGenD

coffee_cup said:


> Here ....
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503056840078331919
> In another news, Ukraine has admitted at least 35 dead and close to 200 injured. Plus weapons destroyed. : -(
> 
> So it must be somewhere in between...





coffee_cup said:


> This was not an airbase but some military training facility with 100s of foreign fighters stationed (foreign legion).
> 
> There is this video circulating from few Brazilians who survived it and got out just before the strike. They are telling that everyone inside it from many countries got eliminated.
> 
> I hope it is just propaganda and those people actually survived and will go back home to their families. War without massive air and logistic support, which they are used to in Iraq, Afghanistan etc, is no joke.


Weapons Shipments Are In Russia’s Crosshairs After Missiles Hit Ukrainian Border Base​*The cruise missile strike alarmingly close to the Polish border comes a day after Russia warned it considers arms shipments to be legitimate targets.*​Serious damage and casualties have been reported after a missile strike at a Ukrainian military base less than 20 kilometers from the Polish border on Sunday. The strike, which killed 35 and left 134 wounded (Russia claims 180 "foreign mercenaries" were killed in the strike), came within hours of Russia threatening to attack arms shipments to Ukraine.

Eight Russian missiles hit the International Center for Peacekeeping and Security northeast of Yavoriv, Ukraine, just before dawn, according to the Ukrainian Armed Forces. The attack was part of a larger raid on west Ukraine. The damage appeared widespread according to reports on the ground, with large columns of smoke rising over the horizon and devastation seen on the base’s perimeter.



> Large Columns of Smoke can be seen rising from the direction of the Yavoriv Military Training Ground 25 miles to the Northwest of the Western Ukrainian city of Lviv which was reportedly hit by Russian Airstrikes a little bit ago. pic.twitter.com/nW4fQ0EiL8
> — OSINTdefender (@sentdefender) March 13, 2022​











Weapons Shipments Are In Russia’s Crosshairs After Missiles Hit Ukrainian Border Base


The cruise missile strike alarmingly close to the Polish border comes a day after Russia warned it considers arms shipments to be legitimate targets.




www.thedrive.com


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503102616238280706


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503096030795120651

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## CrazyZ

Flight of falcon said:


> Yes yes this guy killed 2300090 ISIS agents and 230002 ordinary citizens as well......absolutely a true fact.


Its back up by twitter.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502937737514696705
▪️The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation during the offensive took control over Pavlovka, Nikolskoye, Blagodatnoye Vodianovka and Vladimirovka. The advance was 9 kilometers.

▪️The grouping of troops of the Lugansk People's Republic, continuing offensive operation, liberated Popasnaya city from the nationalists. 

▪️On the morning of March 13, a high-precision long-range weapon struck the training centres of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Starichi and at Yavorovsky training ground.

On the basis of these centres, the Kiev regime deployed: a training and combat coordination point for foreign mercenaries before being sent to combat areas against Russian military personnel, as well as a storage base for weapons and military equipment coming from foreign countries.

As a result of the strike, up to 180 foreign mercenaries and a large batch of foreign weapons were destroyed. 
The destruction of foreign mercenaries who have arrived on the territory of Ukraine will continue.

▪️💥On the afternoon of March 13, aviation and air defence of the Russian Aerospace Forces shot down in the air: 1 Su-24 aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force near Novy Bykiv settlement, as well as 11 unmanned aerial vehicles, including 2 Bayraktar TB-2.

✈️💥Operational-tactical, army and unmanned aviation hit 46 military infrastructure assets of Ukraine, including: 3 command posts, 1 anti-aircraft missile systems, 3 MLRS, 1 electronic warfare station, 2 ammunition and fuel depots and 33 areas of military equipment concentration.

💥In total, during the operation, 3,736 objects of the military infrastructure of Ukraine were disabled. Destroyed: 100 aircraft, 139 unmanned aerial vehicles, 1,234 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 122 multiple launch rocket systems, 452 field artillery guns and mortars, 1,013 units of special military vehicles.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing
@mod_russia_en

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## Pehalwan Pintu Dedha

Flight of falcon said:


> Yes yes this guy killed 2300090 ISIS agents and 230002 ordinary citizens as well......absolutely a true fact.



You are sounding like a true Pakistani now.


----------



## Flight of falcon

Pehalwan Pintu Dedha said:


> You are sounding like a true Pakistani now.




Yeah there was no guessing who you were.....I could smell you from far away....

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## thetutle

zartosht said:


> CIA has openly admitted to leaving "stay behind forces" in ukraine.
> 
> these are agents trained to provoke agitation against Russians. Looks like we are seeing them in action . always have a similar script. Some innocent looking woman/man with a camera recording and provoking anti-Russia chants. This is the bread and butter of the CIA. Using animals to cause riots.


Thank God the CIA is doing something useful for a change


----------



## LeGenD

Tamerlane said:


> A good source for getting the Russian side of the story is the Russian MOD Telegram app.
> 
> It can be found here: https://thesaker.is/russian-mod-early-morning-update/
> 
> ▪️On the morning of March 13, a high-precision long-range weapon struck the training centres of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Starichi and at Yavorovsky training ground.
> 
> On the basis of these centres, the Kiev regime deployed: a training and combat coordination point for foreign mercenaries before being sent to combat areas against Russian military personnel, as well as a storage base for weapons and military equipment coming from foreign countries.
> 
> As a result of the strike, up to 180 foreign mercenaries and a large batch of foreign weapons were destroyed.
> 
> The destruction of foreign mercenaries who have arrived on the territory of Ukraine will continue.


It would be better to double-check information provided by these telegrams.

Some Russian telegrams were found to be spreading disinformation.









A Russian Telegram channel is claiming to fact check the Kremlin's war on Ukraine. It's actually spreading disinformation to hundreds of thousands of followers.


The Telegram channel is posting deceptive fact checks with false information about the Kremlin's war in Ukraine.




www.insider.com













Russia Launches Social Media Offensive Alongside Missiles


Telegram has been the main vector for invasion disinformation.




foreignpolicy.com

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503104430341767174

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503103802903306256

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502677830152298497

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## LeGenD

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502677830152298497


Ouch.

This happened to me a few times. I am feeling better now. 🙃

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## coffee_cup

LeGenD said:


> Weapons Shipments Are In Russia’s Crosshairs After Missiles Hit Ukrainian Border Base​*The cruise missile strike alarmingly close to the Polish border comes a day after Russia warned it considers arms shipments to be legitimate targets.*​Serious damage and casualties have been reported after a missile strike at a Ukrainian military base less than 20 kilometers from the Polish border on Sunday. The strike, which killed 35 and left 134 wounded (Russia claims 180 "foreign mercenaries" were killed in the strike), came within hours of Russia threatening to attack arms shipments to Ukraine.
> 
> Eight Russian missiles hit the International Center for Peacekeeping and Security northeast of Yavoriv, Ukraine, just before dawn, according to the Ukrainian Armed Forces. The attack was part of a larger raid on west Ukraine. The damage appeared widespread according to reports on the ground, with large columns of smoke rising over the horizon and devastation seen on the base’s perimeter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weapons Shipments Are In Russia’s Crosshairs After Missiles Hit Ukrainian Border Base
> 
> 
> The cruise missile strike alarmingly close to the Polish border comes a day after Russia warned it considers arms shipments to be legitimate targets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com



Yes bro, this is what I also read in other reports too.

This thing is getting damn serious. Especially now that the NATO is also starting exercises near Russian border.

I hope mankind on this earth, as we know it, survives!

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## dBSPL

just watch

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503098492885118979

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503025424720437255


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

MoD Russia, [3/12/2022 11:22 PM]
[ Video ]
🇷🇺🇺🇦 Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry (March 12, 9:00 p.m.)

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing
@mod_russia_en

MoD Russia, [3/13/2022 3:04 AM]
🇷🇺🇺🇦 Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry 

▪️ Units of the Russian Armed Forces advanced up to 14 kilometers in a day. During the offensive, control was established over the southern districts of Blagodatnoye, Vladimirovka, Pavlovka and Nikolskoye settlements.

▪️ In Nikolskoye, the militants of Aidar national battalion, having equipped firing positions right on the territory of the Orthodox Holy Dormition Nikolo-Vasilievsky Monastery, held about 300 civilians and monks hostage. 

During the liberation of this settlement by Russian units, some of the nationalists were wiped out, the rest were scattered. The hostages and buildings of the monastery were not harmed.

▪️ The grouping of the People's Militia troops of the Lugansk Republic, continuing offensive actions, completely blocked Borovskoye and gained a foothold in the northern districts of Popasnaya city. 

▪️ In Severodonetsk, units of the Lugansk People's Republic blocked the eastern and southern parts of the city. 

✈️💥 Aviation and air defence of the Russian Aerospace Forces shot down 1 Su-24 aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force in Lyubimovka area and 2 unmanned aerial vehicles.

💥 188 assets of the Ukrainian military infrastructure were hit by operational-tactical, army and unmanned aircraft, including: 4 control points and communication centres, 2 Buk-M1 anti-aircraft missile systems, 1 guidance and target designation radar station, 3 multiple launch rocket systems, 1 electronic warfare station, 3 ammunition depots and 56 areas of military equipment concentration.

💥 In total, 3,687 assets of military infrastructure of Ukraine were neutralized during the operation. 

💥 Destroyed: 128 unmanned aerial vehicles, 1,194 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 121 multiple rocket launchers, 443 field artillery and mortars, 991 units of special military vehicles. 

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing 
@mod_russia_en

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503098209262092289

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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503025424720437255




Very good point from the General. It’s been almost a week now, and Russia has achieved little in advances. This is beginning to look like operational paralysis, not operational pause. Russia is also having to use a ton of supplies for this “pause.”


----------



## reflecthofgeismar

ProudPak said:


> What did your heart do when Ukrainian forces were in Iraq killing Muslims. Oh sorry they were not blonde and blued eyed so it didn't matter. Carry on


What did your heart do when Pakistani forces were in Somalia killing Muslims. Oh sorry they were not blonde and blued eyed so it didn't matter. Carry on

NOT the fault of ordinary Ukrainian soldiers.
They helped mostly. Most Iraqis got killed by other Iraqis, Muslim foreigners who waged secterian war.
Sure, main mistake was to take down Saddam, who ruled with iron fist. And Murricans were warned about consequences, even by their own, when Saddam got his *** kicked. There were other ways to dismantle Saddam or to bring him on the table... but thats another theme.


----------



## Pehalwan Pintu Dedha

dBSPL said:


> just watch
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503098492885118979



Heard it before. She is an Irish MP if i am not wrong. She is impressive and delievered the right message.

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## coffee_cup

reflecthofgeismar said:


> What did your heart do when Pakistani forces were in Somalia killing Muslims. Oh sorry they were not blonde and blued eyed so it didn't matter. Carry on



They were peacekeepers with blue helmets.

Not to kill anyone there but to help in providing security to civilians under UN mandate. Pakistan being one of the largest contributor to UN peacekeeping mission is present in many African countries as well.

See the difference?

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503088702293262338
If any russian authority watched this video, they should revoke all licenses of the vehicle's integrator company. Literally shattered.

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## LeGenD

ProudPak said:


> What did your heart do when Ukrainian forces were in Iraq killing Muslims. Oh sorry they were not blonde and blued eyed so it didn't matter. Carry on





pkuser2k12 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503101140396826633
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503103040856985600



Gentlemen, your sentiments are appreciated but let us stay on course.

Muslims should condemn acts of oppression when they learn about them or bear witness to them - racism has no bearing in this matter. These 'not blonde and blue-eyed' statements are disingenuous.

1. USA provided much-needed assistance to Pakistan and the Mujahideen to fight Soviet forces in Afghanistan in the 1980s.






Afghan War and the Stinger Saga: Lt. Col. (R) Mahmood Ahmed Ghazi Y. Bt.: 9789699225154: Amazon.com: Books


Afghan War and the Stinger Saga [Lt. Col. (R) Mahmood Ahmed Ghazi Y. Bt.] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Afghan War and the Stinger Saga



www.amazon.com





2. US-led forces liberated Kuwait from Iraq in 1991.






Desert Storm: Volume 2 - Operation Desert Storm and the Coalition Liberation of Kuwait 1991 (Middle East@War): Hooton, E.R., Cooper, Tom: 9781913336356: Amazon.com: Books


Desert Storm: Volume 2 - Operation Desert Storm and the Coalition Liberation of Kuwait 1991 (Middle East@War) [Hooton, E.R., Cooper, Tom] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Desert Storm: Volume 2 - Operation Desert Storm and the Coalition Liberation of Kuwait 1991 (Middle East@War)



www.amazon.com





Americans have supported different Islamic countries and/or political entities in varying capacities throughout the years in fact. These decisions are informed by mutual interests from region to region.

For example:









Celebrations in Benghazi to mark anniversary of first NATO strikes


By Maha Ellawati. Benghazi, March 19: Celebrations took place in Benghazi today to mark the first anniversary of the first




www.libyaherald.com

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## gambit

So we are approaching 3 weeks of this war and still the Russian Air Force is practically useless. Or I could be more generous and say %50 useless. The worlds' air forces have seen the VKS inability, meaning no skills, at conducting complex coordinated air operations. The VKS outnumber the Ukrainian Air Force by at least 5-1 in-theater and yet could not establish air superiority. We see the lack of PGM which forces increased sorties in order to assure target destruction. No SEAD/DEAD against Ukrainian air defense. The likelihood of the VKS pulling something out of the bag to surprise the world is getting more remote day by day.

Make no mistake, US SIGINT flights are working overtime, gaining valuable technical and tactical data. Red Flag analysts will be orgasmic over what they see and the Aggressors will have another 'classified' folder in their cabinet.

For yrs, US airpower is mocked for never having to face a 'near peer' adversary implying the only two possible near peer adversary airpowers left: Russia and China. Now scratch one from that list. And the other one never been in combat, never been innovative, and the one loss against the US was from a mid-air collision. Looks like _feng shui_ is not going to be favorable to the other guy.

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## khansaheeb

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502757477712027654


How come you don't get so personal when Palestinian, Syrian, Yemen families are wiped out?

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## Paul2

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503088702293262338
> If any russian authority watched this video, they should revoke all licenses of the vehicle's integrator company. Literally shattered.



300mm direct hit? Even 152mm can't tear the IFV like that, even with ammo detonation. Maybe 203mm tube

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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503088533057290240
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503069155465080843


No ATGM's being fired from balconies. hmmmm



coffee_cup said:


> I am utterly disgusted by the role of UNO.
> 
> This organization is completely useless. It was created to prevent wars (or looming world wars), but by becoming of tool for few powerful countries it has lost all its value.


I think you have been misinformed about what nato does or is.


----------



## dBSPL

Russian influencers are crying because of no more Instagram.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502569484405587971

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## Primus

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502677830152298497


The real reason why he declared war on Ukraine.

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## Realtalk108

Wood said:


> Economic Times: Tata Steel looks at other markets for coal imports.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tata Steel looks at other markets for coal imports
> 
> 
> Tata Steel will look at alternative markets for coal imports as transactions with Russian suppliers and bankers at present come with a "lot of uncertainties," managing director TV Narendran, told reporters on the sidelines of an event in Kolkata. The company used to buy upto 15% of its coal...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> economictimes.indiatimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For people who boast that X or Y country is 'stronk' and will therefore not abide by Western sanctions, this is a good illustration for how sanctions actually work.



Russia will win the war and gobble most of Ukraine. Digesting it would be a different matter.

The real question here is what China will do. China can't let Russia fail, because if it happens, they will stand alone to face America. Beijing may not like it, but they are now locked in this conflict. Xi probably didn't expect the epic showdown's timeline to speed up. Let's see.



gambit said:


> So we are approaching 3 weeks of this war and still the Russian Air Force is practically useless. Or I could be more generous and say %50 useless. The worlds' air forces have seen the VKS inability, meaning no skills, at conducting complex coordinated air operations. The VKS outnumber the Ukrainian Air Force by at least 5-1 in-theater and yet could not establish air superiority. We see the lack of PGM which forces increased sorties in order to assure target destruction. No SEAD/DEAD against Ukrainian air defense. The likelihood of the VKS pulling something out of the bag to surprise the world is getting more remote day by day.
> 
> Make no mistake, US SIGINT flights are working overtime, gaining valuable technical and tactical data. Red Flag analysts will be orgasmic over what they see and the Aggressors will have another 'classified' folder in their cabinet.
> 
> For yrs, US airpower is mocked for never having to face a 'near peer' adversary implying the only two possible near peer adversary airpowers left: Russia and China. Now scratch one from that list. And the other one never been in combat, never been innovative, and the one loss against the US was from a mid-air collision. Looks like _feng shui_ is not going to be favorable to the other guy.



Yes, very cogent analysis but they just blew up a bunch of NATO mercenaries near the Polish border. Precision strikes are something, isn't it?

Respect to the American reporter. The guy took his job seriously and paid with his life. Not many like that.

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## thetutle

coffee_cup said:


> This was not an airbase but some military training facility with 100s of foreign fighters stationed (foreign legion).
> 
> There is this video circulating from few Brazilians who survived it and got out just before the strike. They are telling that everyone inside it from many countries got eliminated.
> 
> I hope it is just propaganda and those people actually survived and will go back home to their families. War without massive air and logistic support, which they are used to in Iraq, Afghanistan etc, is no joke.


There is a massive crater near one building. I suppose the Russian precision strike targeted something very important next to that building.


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## dBSPL

The biggest customer of this factory was India. If I'm not mistaken, it has also helped China a lot. It was a surprise to me that Russia bombed the Zorya turbine factory.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502948290316451840

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503053336483876867

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## CrazyZ

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503053336483876867

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503115211057909765

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503083587939319810

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503117040059666438

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## coffee_cup

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503117040059666438



He should personally lead the British SAS unit to do that.

Whereas that senator from the US should lead the Navy Seals unit.

The less idiots we have, the better for the peace!

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## sur

LeGenD said:


> Weapons Shipments Are In Russia’s Crosshairs After Missiles Hit Ukrainian Border Base​*The cruise missile strike alarmingly close to the Polish border comes a day after Russia warned it considers arms shipments to be legitimate targets.*​Serious damage and casualties have been reported after a missile strike at a Ukrainian military base less than 20 kilometers from the Polish border on Sunday. The strike, which killed 35 and left 134 wounded (Russia claims 180 "foreign mercenaries" were killed in the strike), came within hours of Russia threatening to attack arms shipments to Ukraine.
> 
> Eight Russian missiles hit the International Center for Peacekeeping and Security northeast of Yavoriv, Ukraine, just before dawn, according to the Ukrainian Armed Forces. The attack was part of a larger raid on west Ukraine. The damage appeared widespread according to reports on the ground, with large columns of smoke rising over the horizon and devastation seen on the base’s perimeter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weapons Shipments Are In Russia’s Crosshairs After Missiles Hit Ukrainian Border Base
> 
> 
> The cruise missile strike alarmingly close to the Polish border comes a day after Russia warned it considers arms shipments to be legitimate targets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com



If this base was well known to have trainers in past, I doubt foreign trainers would have stayed in there knowing that Russians may come after this base sooner or later.
But who knows.


In Ukraine, the US Trains an Army in the West to Fight in the East​BY BEN WATSON
SENIOR MULTIMEDIA EDITOR
OCTOBER 5, *2017*


For more than two years, the* U.S. military’s contingent of 300 or so soldiers* have been quietly helping train an enormous allied military in western Ukraine. Meanwhile, Russian-backed separatists appear to be keeping pace some 800 miles to the east, showcasing entire parking lots full of new tanks and artillery just a 15-minute drive from the front lines.

*“Every 55 days we have a new battalion come in and we train them,” said U.S. Army National Guard Capt*. Kayla Christopher, spokesperson for the Joint Multinational Training Group-Ukraine, *at Yavoriv Combat Training Center** in western Ukraine. “And at the end of that 55-day period, we’ll do a field training exercise with that battalion.” The U.S. and partnered armies have trained seven battalions in the past roughly two years or so.

“Our overall *goal is essentially to help the Ukrainian military become NATO-interoperable*,” Christopher said.


[admission of crime against Donbas?]
*The U.S. has also sent . . . radars to track the hundreds of artillery shells that have fallen on the eastern Donetsk and Luhansk regions*. Maybe Javelin anti-tank missiles, Defense Secretary Mattis said in August. . . Most of the *civilians killed* in the fighting were killed *by tanks and artillery*, 55 percent;

But that is a world away from the *U.S. Army in Yavoriv,* and even the fighting on the other side of Ukraine feels remote, Christopher said. “It's actually *pretty remarkable how little you feel the effect of the conflict on the western side* of Ukraine. It's almost as if nothing is happening,” she said. [Can you feel it now?]






* 'Sky turned red' - BBC​. . . *strike on the* *Yavoriv *training base, . . . Russian jets fired around* 30 cruise missiles* at the site, also known as the International *Peacekeeping *[Yeah right, peacekeeping] and Security Center








*English speakers* can be heard, probably watching attack from some distance:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503092803189940225



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503117040059666438


"British Army, Colonel Richard Camp . . *eliminating Putin, as* they did with the terrorist *Osama *bin Laden"
"اوئے ماں صدقے تے پیوء واری"




The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503113311893741571


He may have been acting as a spy or something.
New York Times disowned that he was on any assignment.
And was wearing an old tag.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502994874068762629

Wearing an *unauthorized *tag (source):






The word "Peacekeeper" on his jacket's pocket . . . relate it to BBC article in above.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503109636106428418

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503116356979503111


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503123881753784334

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503115597537812484


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503122806174887937

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## Wood

Realtalk108 said:


> Russia will win the war and gobble most of Ukraine. Digesting it would be a different matter.
> 
> The real question here is what China will do. China can't let Russia fail, because if it happens, they will stand alone to face America. Beijing may not like it, but they are now locked in this conflict. Xi probably didn't expect the epic showdown's timeline to speed up. Let's see.


I have a creeping suspicion that Russia would have discussed with China about launching an attack across Taiwan if NATO should engage Russia in Ukraine. That would be his insurance in case this conflict escalates into an all out war with NATO.

From the Chinese perspective, Russia would be a good cannon fodder to keep European countries busy should they try to militarily deter China's operation in Taiwan.

Now that NATO has declared to not involve itself in Ukraine militarily but instead has torpedoed Russian economy, Putin seems dumbfounded. He would have not expected a seizure of his war chest and strategic disinvestment in oil and gas from West. Putin's industries are integrated into Western supply chain for production. Moving them to Chinese tech may take longer than what it takes for the industries to stay afloat. Politically also, the Ukranians are unlikely to accept Russian puppets to rule them even after an eventual military defeat. Putin cannot keep his military infinitely there. This puts him in a no win scenario strategically.

Perhaps he will take the military win and then dress up the strategic defeat in some sort of treaty. Thus he may be able to roll back his army and get the economic sanctions lifted for no big gain from pre war position.

Or like a deranged gambler, Putin can attack NATO and hope that China will join the war and somehow turn this into a world war. The end of the story then would largely depend on how good the Chinese can fight in such a conflict. We've already seen that Russian capabilities are not impressive.

Final possibility is that the Western countries play chicken and give up on Ukraine and sanctions (for nothing) like Tucker Carlson would like Biden to do. But this seems least likely based on public sentiment right now.

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## lightning F57

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503122806174887937


Think its fake news to put pressure on China.


----------



## NotSure

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503122806174887937


Another proof, that US spokespersons are cheap liars. And F-22 here is spamming non stop the thread with their cheap propaganda.

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## Realtalk108

Wood said:


> I have a creeping suspicion that Russia would have discussed with China about launching an attack across Taiwan if NATO should engage Russia in Ukraine. That would be his insurance in case this conflict escalates into an all out war with NATO.



Absolutely. China knew. Can't say about Taiwan but that big declaration about "comprehensive strategic partnership" with all the festivities just before the invasion can mean only one thing.



Wood said:


> Now that NATO has declared to not involve itself in Ukraine militarily but instead has torpedoed Russian economy, Putin seems dumbfounded. He would have not expected a seizure of his war chest and strategic disinvestment in oil and gas from West. Putin's industries are integrated into Western supply chain for production. Moving them to Chinese tech may take longer than what it takes for the industries to stay afloat. Politically also, the Ukranians are unlikely to accept Russian puppets to rule them even after an eventual military defeat. Putin cannot keep his military infinitely there. This puts him in a no win scenario strategically.



I don't think China even has replacements for the most crucial tech. Huawei may cover some mobile chips. But who will supply Intel, nVidia, ARM, AMD? Chinese manufacturers are going to lose their license if they do. China will buy oil and gas tho.

Ukranians aren't going to roll over and accept the occupation either. We are looking at a massive insurgency that will make Iraq in 2005 look like picnic. And they will be supplied heavily by NATO. Putin may not last.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503016576546574337

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## CrazyZ

Wood said:


> I have a creeping suspicion that Russia would have discussed with China about launching an attack across Taiwan if NATO should engage Russia in Ukraine. That would be his insurance in case this conflict escalates into an all out war with NATO.
> 
> From the Chinese perspective, Russia would be a good cannon fodder to keep European countries busy should they try to militarily deter China's operation in Taiwan.
> 
> Now that NATO has declared to not involve itself in Ukraine militarily but instead has torpedoed Russian economy, Putin seems dumbfounded. He would have not expected a seizure of his war chest and strategic disinvestment in oil and gas from West. Putin's industries are integrated into Western supply chain for production. Moving them to Chinese tech may take longer than what it takes for the industries to stay afloat. Politically also, the Ukranians are unlikely to accept Russian puppets to rule them even after an eventual military defeat. Putin cannot keep his military infinitely there. This puts him in a no win scenario strategically.
> 
> Perhaps he will take the military win and then dress up the strategic defeat in some sort of treaty. Thus he may be able to roll back his army and get the economic sanctions lifted for no big gain from pre war position.
> 
> Or like a deranged gambler, Putin can attack NATO and hope that China will join the war and somehow turn this into a world war. The end of the story then would largely depend on how good the Chinese can fight in such a conflict. We've already seen that Russian capabilities are not impressive.
> 
> Final possibility is that the Western countries play chicken and give up on Ukraine and sanctions (for nothing) like Tucker Carlson would like Biden to do. But this seems least likely based on public sentiment right now.


NATO will have to yield Ukraine to Russia. NATO will just make Russia pay a pound of flesh in the process. Bigger issues on the global chess board will be economic in nature. China can prosper from this as well as the MENA nations. Western nations will go into recession for sure in the next year. If China can secure Russian commodities paid for in yuan at discount then it will continue growing and become the worlds largest economy faster then expected. EU will be the biggest losers economically in the long run Russia the biggest loser economically in the short run. Impacts on USA will be most muted but I expect USA to go into recession very soon and have to deal with the rise of yuan as a reserve currency longer term.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503060494474780675


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## NotSure

Dogs opinion about the weapons (Javelin) shipment to ukraine:

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503113311893741571

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## Microsoft

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503016576546574337



More weak posturing by this administration! This is the USA negotiating on Russian and Chinese terms all the while American population pays higher costs just to lose prestige. Absolutely disgusting!

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## Clutch

Lehrasap said:


> What has the history to do with the present conflict?
> You are wrong if you want to solve the present conflict in light of the history ... Care to refute this???



They have switched sides even during modern times.... The Ukrainian are a pretty corrupt society...

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503127810533167106

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503129426401374213

Reactions: Like Like:
4 | Wow Wow:
2


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503126429713764352


----------



## CrazyZ

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503060494474780675


Lets hope the Russians don't use Brahmos.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503128596650602502

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## Microsoft

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503128596650602502



You got two conflicting tweets in there bud which one should be ignore and which one do we read?


----------



## Clutch

reflecthofgeismar said:


> What did your heart do when Pakistani forces were in Somalia killing Muslims. Oh sorry they were not blonde and blued eyed so it didn't matter. Carry on
> 
> NOT the fault of ordinary Ukrainian soldiers.
> They helped mostly. Most Iraqis got killed by other Iraqis, Muslim foreigners who waged secterian war.
> Sure, main mistake was to take down Saddam, who ruled with iron fist. And Murricans were warned about consequences, even by their own, when Saddam got his *** kicked. There were other ways to dismantle Saddam or to bring him on the table... but thats another theme.



Do you the meaning of false equivalency?... Please tell me... And you know what you are saying is false. Please define "false equivalency".


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502968093999570946

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## Clutch

Vergennes said:


> Chechens neutralized
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503080683924770821



One guy?


----------



## Clutch

Pehalwan Pintu Dedha said:


> Brother don't get me wrong but were you recruited by ISIS ? because your handle sounds like that only al hind, al kabul, al somal ?



"Al" means "the" in Arabic. Just FYI for the ignorant.


----------



## Ali_Baba

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503098209262092289



Maybe the Chinese can sell back to the Russians - the Su35s they bought for a cheap price? China has learnt all it wanted/needed to learn from them - so might as well get some money back ..... lol..

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## Wood

Realtalk108 said:


> Absolutely. China knew. Can't say about Taiwan but that big declaration about "comprehensive strategic partnership" with all the festivities just before the invasion can mean only one thing.


If China wants to launch a military operation across Taiwan, then it would be a good time to launch when the west is busy in a war with Russia. It just seems like common sense to me from a layman perspective. I doubt that the 'comprehensive strategic partnership without limits' is a mere economic co-operation type of deal.

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## Clutch

Pehalwan Pintu Dedha said:


> I had the same feeling when one of yours are blowing fellow pakistanis in mosque.



They are paid for and funded by Hindu Extremist in Delhi.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502966733036003330

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## Clutch

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503085436889149441
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503085438436786179
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503076475439915010



Good riddance to White Nazi who went there for their false-jihad.

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## Wood

CrazyZ said:


> NATO will have to yield Ukraine to Russia. NATO will just make Russia pay a pound of flesh in the process. Bigger issues on the global chess board will be economic in nature. China can prosper from this as well as the MENA nations. Western nations will go into recession for sure in the next year. If China can secure Russian commodities paid for in yuan at discount then it will continue growing and become the worlds largest economy faster then expected. EU will be the biggest losers economically in the long run Russia the biggest loser economically in the short run. Impacts on USA will be most muted but I expect USA to go into recession very soon and have to deal with the rise of yuan as a reserve currency longer term.


The idea that China will simply buy all the oil from Russia is built on the underlying assumption that Russia will be able to extract the oil without Western technology and supply chain. Many analysts who claim proficiency in the subject say that this is not easily doable.

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## CrazyZ

Wood said:


> The idea that China will simply buy all the oil from Russia is built on the underlying assumption that Russia will be able to extract the oil without Western technology and supply chain. Many analysts who claim proficiency in the subject say that this is not easily doable.


If USSR could extract oil without western tech then so can Russia.

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## thetutle

Wood said:


> Or like a deranged gambler, Putin can attack NATO and hope that China will join the war and somehow turn this into a world war.


He doesn't need china to turn this into a world war, he just needs to hit America with a few missiles. If we wanted to start a world war he could to so in 15 minutes.


Wood said:


> The end of the story then would largely depend on how good the Chinese can fight in such a conflict. We've already seen that Russian capabilities are not impressive.


Chinese ability to fight in a world war are irrelevant. They would be obliterated in a US nuclear attack. 


CrazyZ said:


> If China can secure Russian commodities paid for in yuan at discount then it will continue growing and become the worlds largest economy faster then expected.


China will not be able to trade with the west of it uses cheap Russian oil to subsidise its industries. No western courtly would allow that. You can either trade with the west on their terms or find other partners. If you want hard cash for your products you trade with the west. If you want to not get paid you trade with Africa and now Russia.

T


Microsoft said:


> You got two conflicting tweets in there bud which one should be ignore and which one do we read?


read the one you think is more credible.


----------



## LeGenD

Wood said:


> If China wants to launch a military operation across Taiwan, then it would be a good time to launch when the west is busy in a war with Russia. It just seems like common sense to me from a layman perspective. I doubt that the 'comprehensive strategic partnership without limits' is a mere economic co-operation type of deal.


No, it is not a good idea.









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


The problem of this kind of analysis is that these assume that NATO was in process of disbanding , while in truth NATO is expanding ... What people were assuming was not so much NATO "dying," but being defunct, because NATO's brain was dead. NATO will survive, and strengthen, but with much...



defence.pk













Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


I'm not gonna start pretending that they're suddenly out of money and resources. It's not the end of the world yet. Well, they aren't but they are going to if Sanction keep on coming. Rouble is now below 0.085 to 1 USD. Which mean whatever currency they have, as long as it's not their, they...



defence.pk





TSMC factor is significant as well.


----------



## Wood

CrazyZ said:


> If USSR could extract oil without western tech then so can Russia.


Do you think the same oil fields and extraction methods used by USSR are still used in Russia?!

Sometimes, we have to concede that our assumptions are just that and wait to see how things will play out.


----------



## The SC



Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Clutch

Pehalwan Pintu Dedha said:


> Why don't you give your fifth generation stealth fighter Qaher to Russia as US & NATO is also gifting its weapons to Ukraine. Seeing performance of it in the battle field may help you to get more potential customer or is it not for export ?
> 
> 
> 
> Wrenched my heart. What a lovely lady and what a beautiful boy lost their life because of one crazy man. May they rest in eternal peace.



They need to get in line so we can mourn Palestinian, Yemeni, Iraqi, Syrian, Kashmiri, Libyan, mother and child burials first.... Then we will mourn her as well .. because all lives matter . However, some lives cannot jump the line in front of others....


----------



## LeGenD

The SC said:


> View attachment 823892


*FYI*

The rumor originated from a misinterpretation of a 2005 agreement between the U.S. and Ukraine: “Concerning Cooperation in the Area of *Prevention* of Proliferation of Technology, Pathogens and Expertise that could be Used in the Development of Biological Weapons.” For years Russia has alleged that American involvement in securing labs in former Soviet states is part of a massive conspiracy to develop biological weapons, in violation of the Biological Weapons Convention.

In an April 2020 statement, the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine clarified the U.S.-Ukrainian partnership in an effort “to set the record straight regarding disinformation” on what is described as a “strong U.S.-Ukrainian partnership to reduce biological threats.” The statement explained that the U.S. Ukraine partnership is part of the Biological Threat Reduction Program, which “works with the Ukrainian Government to consolidate and secure pathogens and toxins of security concern in Ukrainian government facilities, while allowing for peaceful research and vaccine development.”









Fact Check: No, There Are No U.S.-Funded Bioweapons Labs in Ukraine


False claims are going viral on social media.




factcheck.thedispatch.com





Related:









EXCLUSIVE WHO says it advised Ukraine to destroy pathogens in health labs to prevent disease spread


The World Health Organization advised Ukraine to destroy high-threat pathogens housed in the country's public health laboratories to prevent "any potential spills" that would spread disease among the population, the agency told Reuters.




www.reuters.com


----------



## manpk77

It will be most probably restricted to Ukraine only I think.


----------



## thetutle

sur said:


> He may have been acting as a spy or something.


of course he was a spy. 


The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502966733036003330


does this mean Putin has decided to get rid of khadyrov and his armed gang? we know what happens to Russian commanders near the front line. Although I am not sure western intel wants to get rid fo this guy, he's probably more a danger to russia than the west in the long run. 

I have no doubt western agencies would want Putin to be alone with armed Chechens in a room one day. The way he is going, he might one day actually make that mistake.

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## K_Bin_W

CrazyZ said:


> If USSR could extract oil without western tech then so can Russia.


I was going to say the same, at least technology is not an issue for Russia.


----------



## CrazyZ

thetutle said:


> China will not be able to trade with the west of it uses cheap Russian oil to subsidise its industries. No western courtly would allow that. You can either trade with the west on their terms or find other partners. If you want hard cash for your products you trade with the west. If you want to not get paid you trade with Africa and now Russia.


Fiat Cash is trash.....doesn't matter if its USA or Zimbabwe any more.....they both are running the printing presses. Western position economically is weaker then you think and is only going to get worse. Asia combined already has a larger economy then the rest of the world. MENA and Africa are the future growth markets. Western camp will only decline more in relative global economic position so its ability to dictate terms is long behind it.

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## NotSure

thetutle said:


> China will not be able to trade with the west of it uses cheap Russian oil to subsidise its industries. No western courtly would allow that. You can either trade with the west on their terms or find other partners. If you want hard cash for your products you trade with the west. If you want to not get paid you trade with Africa and now Russia.


You really should consume less "west is stronk" propaganda. The west can not allow itself to stop trading with china. It is absolutely impossible. It can't even stop buying russian oil, gas and uran without years of preparation. Even the US import stop is simply fake, they are still buying russian oil and uran.

And now you think they will isolate itself from russia AND China? When both countries will continue to trade with all countries except the western? So who is gonna get isolated?

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## Wood

LeGenD said:


> No, it is not a good idea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> The problem of this kind of analysis is that these assume that NATO was in process of disbanding , while in truth NATO is expanding ... What people were assuming was not so much NATO "dying," but being defunct, because NATO's brain was dead. NATO will survive, and strengthen, but with much...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> I'm not gonna start pretending that they're suddenly out of money and resources. It's not the end of the world yet. Well, they aren't but they are going to if Sanction keep on coming. Rouble is now below 0.085 to 1 USD. Which mean whatever currency they have, as long as it's not their, they...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TSMC factor is significant as well.


I don't mean to say that Taiwan is a lamb that is waiting to get slaughtered. But the statements from Chinese side are very belligerent in this issue. So I think that they may be determined to take their chances.

Secondly, I think from the perspective of Taiwanese - they may not be too averse to the idea of joining China permanently. The Ukranians may think of Russians as losers compared to EU economically, but the Taiwanese could have more respect for China. Taiwanese opposition party seems to be a bit pro China as well. So their urge to resist may not be as strong as the Ukrainian side against Russia.

Lastly, I have the very unscientific notion that about 30% of Taiwanese want to integrate with China. This is based on random public opinion videos that I've watched on YouTube

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## beast89

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503053336483876867


war is hell boys get out before its too late,

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## Oublious

TB2 shining like a star in Ukrain, Russian command post.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503127672427274243

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## CrazyZ

Oublious said:


> TB2 shining like a star in Ukrain, Russian command post.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503127672427274243


TB2 is one the best combat drones in the world currently.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503132350217170953

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Sad Sad:
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## thetutle

CrazyZ said:


> Fiat Cash is trash.....doesn't matter if its USA or Zimbabwe any more.....they both are running the printing presses. Western position economically is weaker then you think and is only going to get worse. Asia combined already has a larger economy then the rest of the world. MENA and Africa are the future growth markets. Western camp will only decline more in relative global economic position so its ability to dictate terms is long behind it.


You dont have to accept US dollars for trade. You can go open a factory and accept Russian rubles. 

Also, simple addition will show that USA and Europe (excluding russia) had a larger GDP than Asia combined (which includes India, Middle East, Israel, arab gulf & Turkey). BTW did you know Indias GDP is 10 times bigger than Israel. 




NotSure said:


> The west can not allow itself to stop trading with china. It is absolutely impossible.


Westren girls would just close Chinese factories and open in Vietnam or some place else if china used unfair trading practices to undermine western security or western firms. Dont take my word for it, wait and see. Look what trump did. 


NotSure said:


> And now you think they will isolate itself from russia AND China? When both countries will continue to trade with all countries except the western? So who is gonna get isolated?


as far as I know, in the 1970's the west was doing good, not trading with china, and china had just recovered from a famine that killed 20 milion people. The west is not rich beacause of trade with china. China is no longer dirt poor because of its trade with the west. But china doesn't have to trade With the west, they are welcome sell their products to Africa.

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## Tamerlane

thetutle said:


> China will not be able to trade with the west of it uses cheap Russian oil to subsidise its industries. No western courtly would allow that. You can either trade with the west on their terms or find other partners. If you want hard cash for your products you trade with the west. If you want to not get paid you trade with Africa and now Russia.



If America stops trading with China, practically the whole US economy will grind to a halt. Almost everything is made in China. If there are shortages or prices of things in Walmart go up these are the scenes you'll be seeing.


----------



## gambit

Realtalk108 said:


> Yes, very cogent analysis but they just blew up a bunch of NATO mercenaries near the Polish border. Precision strikes are something, isn't it?


Never said the VKS could not drop bombs at the individual level. But with coordinated air attacks, every fighter must wait his turn and there should be a controller somewhere directing traffic. Dropping bombs into a city will put VKS fighters in vulnerable positions. For starter, each fighter have to get target coordinates, then maneuver into positions. Now here is where it gets dangerous. The Ukrainian air defense units will know the VKS will go after the cities and urban areas trying to support Russian troopers going house to house. They know VKS fighters will have to descent below 15K ft just to try to be precise. Even with the lower altitude Stingers, if any VKS fighter get below 10K altitude, he will encounter multiple Stingers coming at him from different directions. Given the performance of the VKS so far, one or two losses below 10K ft will compel the rest to go back up above 10K, making it more difficult to deliver with precision, leaving Russian ground troopers unsupported.

SEAD/DEAD missions are just as deadly as trying to gain air superiority against other fighters. While smaller ground missiles do not have the altitude as their larger cousins, they are nearly as fast but accelerate just as quick due to their lighter weight per poundage of thrust. The VKS have not, or have yet, to demonstrate the US level of sophisticated SEAD/DEAD attacks, so until the VKS steps up, here is the harsh reality for our remaining supposedly 'near peer' air adversary. Up to now, the world's air forces, especially that other guy, were anticipating a replacement for Desert Storm but the VKS failed to deliver. Now everybody have to go back to Desert Storm for guidance and standards, as if anyone else can achieve that to the scale we did. What comes next will be a lesson for the world's air forces should any of them have to fight -- that without air superiority in the first three days of a conflict, once air defense forces are in position, SEAD/DEAD will be harder and longer, if accomplished at all.

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## CrazyZ

thetutle said:


> You dont have to accept US dollars for trade. You can go open a factory and accept Russian rubles.
> 
> Also, simple addition will show that USA and Europe (excluding russia) had a larger GDP than Asia combined (which includes India, Middle East, Israel, arab gulf & Turkey). BTW did you know Indias GDP is 10 times bigger than Israel.


Even Americans are looking to invest in hard assets and not hold dollars. Trumps trade war with China failed miserably. That should be a wake call. Personally, I'm looking into investments in the MENA.....UAE & KSA are a more attractive places to invest right now then EU.


----------



## Foinikas

Clutch said:


> Good riddance to White Nazi who went their for their false-jihad.


What exactly did they expect? By the way, you can't call them "White Nazis" nor talk any jihad. Lol. They're Brazilians! 

But what did they expect when they went there? That they would walk to Kiev and destroy entire brigades and be welcomed as heroes?


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Congrats to Russians 

Russians have taken what they wished , hopefully Ukraine admits surrender and comes to senses it is just a tiny state vs Russia

Social media does not means zilch against Russians

I could see a big retaliation on western front if weapons supply from western border does not stops

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## thetutle

Tamerlane said:


> If America stops trading with China, practically the whole US economy will grind to a halt. Almost everything is made in China. If there are shortages or prices of things in Walmart go up these are the scenes you'll be seeing.


It would be a painful transition. And when I say painful I mean the big screen TV in the study room would not be able to be easily replaced at a decent price so the whole family would have to watch TV together in the living room or on their Mac books. 

But sooner or later the western firms or Korean firms would find some other 3rd world place to assemble the TV's and other widgets. 

But yes, I concede the crowds would fight each other at Walmart for that last Chinese made TV.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Interesting twist on TV

Seeing Jews in Western media doing what they always have done in last 100 years run TV ads , "Jews need help in Ukraine", This add came on for 3rd time on TV in 30 minutes

Similar ads used to run prior to WW1 against Russia (1890-1900 periods) and prior to WW2 against Germany

While banning Russians from Financial system

As a neutral observe wondering how this will unfold

I was not quite sure , Is Ukraine a Jewish state ? I am not quite familiar with the demographics in Ukraine

While simultaneously Israel is playing double game


----------



## thetutle

CrazyZ said:


> Even Americans are looking to invest in hard assets and not hold dollars. Trumps trade war with China failed miserably. That should be a wake call. Personally, I'm looking into investments in the MENA.....UAE & KSA are a more attractive places to invest right now then EU.


you are absolutely right, inflation is eating away our money in the west. Its hard to get a good return. In australia property prices have increased to dramatic levels. A lot of people are being priced out. Particularly new immigrants (Chinese and Indians are the majority of immigrants). 

UAE and KSA are riskier than EU, although given at what's happening this might not be true for much longer. 

Those are undemocratic governments prone to western regime change on one side and threatened by Iran on the other. But there is no safe investment anywhere. Personally I would buy shares in the company that makes Bayraktar.



AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Interesting twist on TV
> 
> Seeing Jews in Western media doing what they always have done in last 100 years run TV ads , "Jews need help in Ukraine"
> 
> While banning Russians from Financial system


A broken clock is right twice a day.

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## Tamerlane

thetutle said:


> It would be a painful transition. And when I say painful I mean the big screen TV in the study room would not be able to be easily replaced at a decent price so the whole family would have to watch TV together in the living room or on their Mac books.
> 
> But sooner or later the western firms or Korean firms would find some other 3rd world place to assemble the TV's and other widgets.
> 
> But yes, I concede the crowds would fight each other at Walmart for that last Chinese made TV.



MY dear tutle, it's not as simple as that. An economic emergency with shortage of goods will trigger massive inflation and there will be societal collapse level of civil unrest.

America is joined by the hip to China. If they break off, both die. I don't think that a conflict with China will happen any time soon. Both know the consequences.

*40% of Americans only one missed paycheck away from poverty*

Millions of middle-class Americans are just one missed paycheck away from poverty, with 4 of 10 considered "liquid-asset poor," or without enough money socked away to cope with even a sudden disruption in income.









40% of Americans only one missed paycheck away from poverty


Many otherwise middle-class people are "liquid-asset poor," meaning they can't withstand even a brief financial shock




www.cbsnews.com

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## ProudPak

Oublious said:


> TB2 shining like a star in Ukrain, Russian command post.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503127672427274243


Tb2 and Turkish drones will make a killing on the defence market


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503048996205600769


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

While the whole Ukraine-Russia story is ok interesting but the real retaliation will come for this theft once Russia reestablish control

The world is ready for a new financial system
Seems like Russian people had *700 Billion Dollar* saved in international outlets for trade , and *300 Billion* has been sanctioned , seems pretty nasty that Russian wealth is being stolen

This will be big

Source RT.COM (Russian)


https://www.rt.com/business/551803-siluanov-russia-reserves-frozen/










Nato has launched the financial Bomb against Russia

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Dil Pakistan

thetutle said:


> yeah we blew it man. Our leaders blew it. hijacked by zionism and greed.
> 
> year 2000 was it seems the zenith of power of the west, and instead of solving these critical problems they/we went to war with islam. Giving china time to develop, build cars and stop using bicycles. Russia to turn from an ideological regime to a mafia regime.
> 
> but im not sure if anything could have been done to steer russia to something like Poland. It was probably always destined to be run by the KGB who were out of work.
> 
> And now we all have to pay for it.



You cracked it.

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## The SC

The Ukrainian President on an inspection tour of the situation of the wounded in the capital, Kyiv


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503072384601014273


----------



## Wood

Could it be possible for Putin to hold on to conquered territory in Ukraine and keep Russia economically afloat until his man Trump gets back into the White House in 2024? That may also be a good way out for him.

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## Flight of falcon

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503115211057909765
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503083587939319810
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503117040059666438




Idiot…. How do these people rise above corporal level….
Osama didn’t have 3500 nuclear weapons .


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503149282978848769

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## thetutle

Tamerlane said:


> *40% of Americans only one missed paycheck away from poverty*


Its probably true, but: 

1) read the definition of poverty in the USA. 

2) those people who are in poverty by a large margin are Blacks and hispanics and other people who are not the white ruling class in America. The poor white people are mainly junkies, mentally ill and those that make the life style choice of being homeless. 

And if America is so bad, a large portion of white Americans would probably say that all those from the third world trying to get there should just stay away and make a future in their own counties.

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## gambit

NotSure said:


> The west can not allow itself to stop trading with china. It is absolutely impossible.


It is very possible. All it take is political will. The best odds is for China to continue bribing/owning Western leaders. Critical items such as semiconductor will either exit or minimize in China. But the Russia-China alliance is already a wake up call for Western leaders to reassess their countries' relationships with China.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503140634139545606


----------



## Clutch

Foinikas said:


> White Nazis" nor talk any jihad.



False jihad.... Not the real one... It's meant to point the hypocrisy.


----------



## Wood

Tanks, bombs, shootings: Ukrainians describe Russian takeover of villages


Witnesses describe soldiers shooting people dead in the street and confiscating phones and laptops




www.theguardian.com


----------



## Clutch

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503132350217170953



These foreign fighters will blow up innocent people when they return from Ukraine. They should be shipped to Guantanamo...

Oops sorry, wrong race of people. That's reserved for those 3rd worlders...

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

CIA Mole said:


> Indian Who Joined Ukrainian Paramilitary To Fight Russia Wants 'To Return Home'
> 
> 
> Twenty-one-year-old R Sainikhesh, an engineering student from Tamil Nadu had joined the Ukrainian paramilitary force to fight Russia. However, back in the country, his parents are worried and expect him to return soon. His father Ravichandran said that Sainikhesh is willing to return to his...
> 
> 
> 
> www.indiatimes.com

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503162793683566598


Spoiler: GRAPHIC CONTENT 18+





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503132284202983426


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503142515008016388

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## Brainsucker

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503162793683566598
> 
> 
> Spoiler: GRAPHIC CONTENT 18+
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503132284202983426


Elias, can you tell me who is losing 16.000, who is losing 2300 and who is losing 398?


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## Wood




----------



## Elias MC

Brainsucker said:


> Elias, me puedes decir quien esta perdiendo 16.000, quien esta perdiendo 2300 y quien esta perdiendo 398?








National Guard of Ukraine : 2342​

​*Armed Forces of Ukraine: 16647*
*

*
State Border Guard Service of Ukraine : 398​

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## Tamerlane

thetutle said:


> Its probably true, but:
> 
> 1) read the definition of poverty in the USA.
> 
> 2) those people who are in poverty by a large margin are Blacks and hispanics and other people who are not the white ruling class in America. The poor white people are mainly junkies, mentally ill and those that make the life style choice of being homeless.
> 
> And if America is so bad, a large portion of white Americans would probably say that all those from the third world trying to get there should just stay away and make a future in their own counties.



The question that needs to be answered is why should America or the West get into a conflict with China, or even with Russia? 

Everyone benefits from free trade. The whole world is better off today then 100 years ago. The War on Terror was a huge loss. So who’s starting these conflicts when they aren’t even for the benefit of the country? 

I think it’s people who don’t care for the people of any of those countries. Zionist backed Zelensky is a classic example of politicians who’re installed in Western countries and proceed to destroy them for the benefit of their foreign masters. 

Ukraine and America have a thing in common. Both have Zionist puppet regimes in power who’re destroying their countries. A real patriot should keep that in mind.


----------



## Menthol

zartosht said:


> CIA has openly admitted to leaving "stay behind forces" in ukraine.
> 
> these are agents trained to provoke agitation against Russians. Looks like we are seeing them in action . always have a similar script. Some innocent looking woman/man with a camera recording and provoking anti-Russia chants. This is the bread and butter of the CIA. Using animals to cause riots.
> 
> dont worry though, The Russians know how to take care of these animals.



Provoking, and let the people do the rest.

Then running away to save himself.

The more people are brutally beaten and arrested, the better.

And if one or some of them are killed, it's even better, hit the jackpot.

And he is praying if it's toddlers and the elderly who are the victims.


It's like, luring innocent people to the lion's den and then escaping.

The more people get eaten alive by the lions, the better.

Oh, all of them in the name of goodness.


So basically it's okay to poison people at a party.

The more people die because of poison, the better.

Why?

Because it's in the name of goodness.


By seeing this case, the difference between Biden and Putin is huge.

Between USA and Russia.


----------



## unrequitted_love_suzy

American journalist is killed in Ukraine​


----------



## thetutle

Possible Outcomes of the Russo-Ukrainian War and China's Choice | U.S.-China Perception Monitor


Hu Wei is the vice-chairman of the Public Policy Research Center of the Counselor's Office of the State Council.




uscnpm.org

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## The SC

The moment a command center of the Ukrainian forces was destroyed by a "Krasnopol" 155mm KM-1 laser-guided artillery weapon system..

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## unrequitted_love_suzy

Israeli foreign minister condemns Russia​








Israeli foreign minister condemns Russia


Yair Lapid’s criticism is among the strongest that has come from Israeli officials.




www.politico.com


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503145514769997831

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503154148161765383

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## thetutle

Tamerlane said:


> The question that needs to be answered is why should America or the West get into a conflict with China, or even with Russia?


The west did not start any conflict with russia. Russia invaded a sovereign country and refuses to accept that the country exists, thus upending the Westphalian system of sovereignty established during the in 30 years war in 1648. So the west will be defending the Westphalian system of sovereignty to the end. This is a conflict that Russia foolishly chose. 

West is not in open conflict of china. it recognises Taiwan as part of china. There might be a war over South China Sea amongst Asian countries, or they might want to negotiate a settlement. Its up to them. USA will back the small countries in that conflict. So its up to them to work it out. 

Otherwise there is no conflict with china. 


Tamerlane said:


> Everyone benefits from free trade. The whole world is better off today then 100 years ago. The War on Terror was a huge loss. So who’s starting these conflicts when they aren’t even for the benefit of the country?


Russia is starting the conflicts. Yes, the west made some regime changes previously to regimes that they installed themselves in countries they created out of thin air. Like all the Middle East. 

But west still recognises these countries sovereignty and had pushed for democratic government. The fact there are people in the middle east willing to give their life to have a dictatorship is not something I full understand. 


Tamerlane said:


> I think it’s people who don’t care for the people of any of those countries. Zionist backed Zelensky is a classic example of politicians who’re installed in Western countries and proceed to destroy them for the benefit of their foreign masters.


All gulf states including Saudi are zionist backed. So what. zionists exist and they sometimes back some people. What to do?


Tamerlane said:


> Ukraine and America have a thing in common. Both have Zionist puppet regimes in power who’re destroying their countries. A real patriot should keep that in mind.


Well Ukraine and USA have democratically elected governments that they change from time to time. the only way to stop that is to eliminate the right of people to vote. As russia is doing now. Its not easy to defeat the democratic will off the people. As you can see.

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## BHAN85

__





US, China aides to meet as tensions mount over Russia


WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. and China are sending top aides to meet in Rome on Monday amid mounting tensions between the two countries over the Russia-Ukraine war and as the U.S. said Russia has asked China for military equipment to help press its campaign. In advance of the talks, White House...



defence.pk


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

The SC said:


> View attachment 823733



This is even nuttier




McDonalds announces closure and people get in line to stock up. WTF?

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## Wood

thetutle said:


> Possible Outcomes of the Russo-Ukrainian War and China's Choice | U.S.-China Perception Monitor
> 
> 
> Hu Wei is the vice-chairman of the Public Policy Research Center of the Counselor's Office of the State Council.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uscnpm.org


Seems like this Chinese think tank is sponsored by American dole 

Curious to know how close this analysis is to the weighed average opinion of such policy think tanks in PRC. 


Edit: Seems like this is not a Chinese opinion at all. It is from the Carter center based in the US

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## The SC

Russian Ministry of Defense:

The spread of toxic smoke in urban areas in Donetsk, eastern Ukraine.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503169267059023880


----------



## The SC

Hamartia Antidote said:


> This is even nuttier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> McDonalds announces closure and people get in line to stock up.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503081127606878212

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503191931739901955

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501587776097165312

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503182810869374983

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503176564242006017

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## tower9

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503191931739901955



That dude should be thanking the sanctions for saving his fat assss.

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## Tamerlane

thetutle said:


> The west did not start any conflict with russia. Russia invaded a sovereign country and refuses to accept that the country exists, thus upending the Westphalian system of sovereignty established during the in 30 years war in 1648. So the west will be defending the Westphalian system of sovereignty to the end. This is a conflict that Russia foolishly chose.



I think that the West deliberately provoked Russia into this. You think Russia acted without provocation. So we can agree to disagree.



thetutle said:


> West is not in open conflict of china. it recognises Taiwan as part of china. There might be a war over South China Sea amongst Asian countries, or they might want to negotiate a settlement. Its up to them. USA will back the small countries in that conflict. So its up to them to work it out.
> 
> Otherwise there is no conflict with china.



That’s fine as long as China is left alone and not dragged into this. Starting a trade war with China will be a disaster. I’ve seen empty shelves and panic buying during covid. A trade war with China will be far worse.



thetutle said:


> Russia is starting the conflicts. Yes, the west made some regime changes previously to regimes that they installed themselves in countries they created out of thin air. Like all the Middle East.
> 
> But west still recognises these countries sovereignty and had pushed for democratic government. The fact there are people in the middle east willing to give their life to have a dictatorship is not something I full understand.



It’s disingenuous to say that the West created countries and installed regimes, but it’s okay because they respect their sovereignty. There’s a whole series of countries whose sovereignty wasn’t respected. Afghanistan and Iraq come to mind.



thetutle said:


> All gulf states including Saudi are zionist backed. So what. zionists exist and they sometimes back some people. What to do?
> 
> Well Ukraine and USA have democratically elected governments that they change from time to time. the only way to stop that is to eliminate the right of people to vote. As russia is doing now. Its not easy to defeat the democratic will off the people. As you can see.



All Zionist regimes are bad and should go. They’re not good for mankind.

Ukraine and the US are classic examples of how democracy can be subverted. Money will buy you any government you want.

A Zionist comedian can be installed in power through funding from a Jewish Ukrainian oligarch, Ihor Kolomoisky. What were the Ukrainians thinking?

Both candidates in US presidential elections are backed by Jewish American oligarchs. E.g. Sheldon Adelson for Trump.

Any proper democracy needs to have safeguards in place to prevent a takeover by foreign interests. That’s what people who care for their countries should be working for.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503078151655546880
This is brutal. Perhaps medical supplies could be exempted from sanctions


----------



## Menthol

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503115211057909765
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503083587939319810
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503117040059666438



The death of the world leader will launch the nuclear attacks.

But I believe 100% the West is going to kill Putin.


----------



## Microsoft

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503078151655546880
> This is brutal. Perhaps medical supplies could be exempted from sanctions



When Iran was suffering medical supply shortage during the pandemic no sanctions were lifted for them. It probably won't help Russians to ask for medical supplies either.


----------



## thetutle

You can buy dental drill in any country and bring in in your luggage back to russia. Its no big deal


----------



## Type59

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503100496550236167
> The Russians now crying to the Chinese


Chinese have advanced drones, soo nothing insulting about it. Winning is more important then saving face.


----------



## Menthol

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503081127606878212
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503191931739901955
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501587776097165312



Not for long.

USA people can't any longer eat McD anymore as well.

So basically, it's not Russian people who are going to miss it.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503100496550236167
> The Russians now crying to the Chinese



It's funny.

Is that so hard for Russia to beat out a tiny country like Ukraine???


----------



## Indian Libertarian

Type59 said:


> Chinese have advanced drones, soo nothing insulting about it. Winning is more important then saving face.


I was surprised about this since Russia clearly witnessed how their friend, Armenia, got decimated by Azerbaijani TB2s. Russia has been using drones for target spotting & artillery reconnaissance pretty liberally but they severely lack armed drones.


----------



## RescueRanger

Can we please keep the posts on the thread relevant to the political/security discourse and limit the ****posting please. 

Having to filter through 15 pages of spam to try and read some sensible posts is not fair on those of us who actually care about the conflict and want to see reasonable debate.

Thank you.

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## CAPRICORN-88



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## CrazyZ

thetutle said:


> UAE and KSA are riskier than EU, although given at what's happening this might not be true for much longer.


Oil is at record levels and NATO and Russia are eyeball to eyeball, plus I need to diversify my portfolio......MENA seems the best long term spot to me. Biden may not like it but I would invest in NEOM in a heartbeat. Either that or a doomsday bunker in the backyard.


----------



## sur

Old interview and he's about west funded NGO's, but mindset can be extrapolated to current situation . . .






(source)

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## Menthol

Tamerlane said:


> I think that the West deliberately provoked Russia into this. You think Russia acted without provocation. So we can agree to disagree.
> 
> 
> 
> That’s fine as long as China is left alone and not dragged into this. Starting a trade war with China will be a disaster. I’ve seen empty shelves and panic buying during covid. A trade war with China will be far worse.
> 
> 
> 
> It’s disingenuous to say that the West created countries and installed regimes, but it’s okay because they respect their sovereignty. There’s a whole series of countries whose sovereignty wasn’t respected. Afghanistan and Iraq come to mind.
> 
> 
> 
> All Zionist regimes are bad and should go. They’re not good for mankind.
> 
> Ukraine and the US are classic examples of how democracy can be subverted. Money will buy you any government you want.
> 
> A Zionist comedian can be installed in power through funding from a Jewish Ukrainian oligarch, Ihor Kolomoisky. What were the Ukrainians thinking?
> 
> Both candidates in US presidential elections are backed by Jewish American oligarchs. E.g. Sheldon Adelson for Trump.
> 
> Any proper democracy needs to have safeguards in place to prevent a takeover by foreign interests. That’s what people who care for their countries should be working for.



Jewish is loyal to USA.

So if people say that he is installed by USA, I believe it.

There's no better candidate than him.

Of course, he was elected thru public election... with CIA help.

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## CAPRICORN-88




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## CAPRICORN-88



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## CAPRICORN-88



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## FairAndUnbiased

Here is a first hand account of what a foreign volunteer (army vet) experienced when they came under fire from Russian cruise missiles and air power.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/volunteersForUkraine/comments/tdnmlj

Turns out that being on the receiving end of heavy firepower is scary and fighting Russia isn't exactly like war criming Iraqis or Afghans.

He left after that.

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## thetutle

Russia is drawing down troops From Syria and Nagrono Karabakh in order to deploy in Ukraine. As well as troops from the Far East and the Syrians themselves. 

They have truly humiliated themselves. 

To be fair they are fighting 150,000 ukranians who have full logistical, Intel and financial support from nato. I'd say that Ukranians have better battlespace awareness Than the Russians. 

More satellites, more airborne radar. Ukranians are probably fed every flightpath of every Russian air asset. I would be very worried if I was a Russian soldier.

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## FairAndUnbiased

thetutle said:


> Russia is drawing down troops From Syria and Nagrono Karabakh in order to deploy in Ukraine. As well as troops from the Far East and the Syrians themselves.
> 
> They have truly humiliated themselves.
> 
> To be fair they are fighting 150,000 ukranians who have full logistical, Intel and financial support from nato. I'd say that Ukranians have better battlespace awareness Than the Russians.
> 
> More satellites, more airborne radar. Ukranians are probably fed every flightpath of every Russian air asset. I would be very worried if I was a Russian soldier.


You can always volunteer for Ukraine. You seem much tougher than those ex US soldiers who ran away. You're from the internet after all.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Russia is merely copying and applying the tactics used by US in Syria. That was how the civil war got started there.

So Russia are now mulling to ship 50,000 mercenaries from Syria and Iraq to the Western part of Ukraine if Zalensky still refuses to comply to their demand about not joining NATO and amending the constitution. Ukraine will be engulf in a long civil war and after that, what good is Ukraine to NATO then?

It is a smart Chess move by President Putin.

The main Russian Army are assisting the pro-Russia militia, and by encircling the cities in breakaway Republics in Donbass, Lugansky and Denetsk, the success of the militia are ensured.

Today I read Mariopul, Odessa, etc have just fallen and new mayors are appointed.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503231646501421056

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503226808778604547

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503227639615610881

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## F-22Raptor

FairAndUnbiased said:


> You can always volunteer for Ukraine. You seem much tougher than those ex US soldiers who ran away. You're from the internet after all.



The last time the US and Russia faced off 200-300 Russian mercenaries were blown to bits in Syria. 

The US can inflict horrible effects on Russian units and quickly with mass. Russia doesn’t have anywhere near the PGM stockpile the US does.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503139842561130508

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## vizier

One thing is for sure after this conflict certain changes should be made to Un body for not repeating these types of cases.

The veto power for cases involving outside interference to internal conflicts should be increased with extra steps and extra measures. For example troop buildup, threats should each have measures and loss of veto power if attacking country has veto power on that case or similar related cases can be added as well. For example if it is not Russia but Usa fighting against Ukraine most of us with Usa control of media power would be believing that all donbass residents are killed and there is a genocide going on and zelensky would be the new wannabe fuhrer. Most green votes on last Un vote would be then approve Usa intervention in that country as most of the countries are economically dependent to west and fear sanctions or internal conflicts supported by them and later outside interventions claiming oppression etc.

The veto power involing measures against countries attacking others should be decreased so measures can pass more easily to dampen out the attacking force or best detterrance against doing so. Russia attacking Ukraine or similar or Israel attacking Labennon, Syria etc. should not be easily vetoed by Russia-China in 1st case and Usa-Britain or France which is more neutral but after Russia-Ukraine conflict is naturally more towards Nato side in 2nd case. Using economic power to influence Un votes should also be blocked with measures as Usa can use all types of sanctions even unilaterraly to curb nagetive voting countries and Russia can use gas and materials.


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## EvoluXon

vizier said:


> One thing is for sure after this conflict certain changes should be made to Un body for not repeating these types of cases.
> 
> The veto power for cases involving outside interference to internal conflicts should be increased with extra steps and extra measures. For example troop buildup, threats should each have measures and loss of veto power if attacking country has veto power on that case or similar related cases can be added as well. For example if it is not Russia but Usa fighting against Ukraine most of us with Usa control of media power would be believing that all donbass residents are killed and there is a genocide going on and zelensky would be the new wannabe fuhrer. Most green votes on last Un vote would be then approve Usa intervention in that country as most of the countries are economically dependent to west and fear sanctions or internal conflicts supported by them and later outside interventions claiming oppression etc.
> 
> The veto power involing measures against countries attacking others should be decreased so measures can pass more easily to dampen out the attacking force or best detterrance against doing so. Russia attacking Ukraine or similar or Israel attacking Labennon, Syria etc. should not be easily vetoed by Russia-China in 1st case and Usa-Britain or France which is more neutral but after Russia-Ukraine conflict is naturally more towards Nato side in 2nd case. Using economic power to influence Un votes should also be blocked with measures as Usa can use all types of sanctions even unilaterraly to curb nagetive voting countries and Russia can use gas and materials.


Does Veto power or UN even matter when US is aggressor? . Now Russia is following US footsteps .enjoy because its fair game now

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## nangyale

Clutch said:


> False jihad.... Not the real one... It's meant to point the hypocrisy.


A more appropriate term is Crusaders.

Think of this war as the modern version of the northern Crusade.

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## vizier

EvoluXon said:


> Does Veto power or UN even matter when US is aggressor? . Now Russia is following US footsteps .enjoy because its fair game now


It doesnt matter currently because of unipolar economic order with dollar at the center of it but Un if modified to work correctly should consider the economic hegemony of Usa as well. Other currencies should not be discouraged in inter country trade like Yuan etc. even encouraged. Dollar as the single inter-country trade will always shift the balance towards Usa in every Un decision and without any economic backlash. Iraq also didnt get much outside help. This conflict also showed that in any future scenario attacking party would have difficulties even if it is Usa because of atgms, manpads, mini-less detectable attack drones(TB2), possibly kamikaze drones-mini cruise missiles to attack static positions which is very easy to deliver.

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## Clutch

nangyale said:


> A more appropriate term is Crusaders.
> 
> Think of this war as the modern version of the northern Crusade.


True...


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503282085477425153


----------



## thetutle

FairAndUnbiased said:


> You can always volunteer for Ukraine. You seem much tougher than those ex US soldiers who ran away. You're from the internet after all.


I am too rich to die. There is no need anyway. Ukraine is not my country. They are living on lands stolen from Muslims. There are 450 million people in the EU that will finance this and go fight as they know that their freedom depends on russia being destroyed. 

Also, I, like trump has a bone in my foot and military wont take me.

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## NotSure

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503113311893741571


He was shot dead by the ukr. military. They thought he was a russian spy.

Btw: Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Seems like the US awacs non stop circling over poland failed completely to warn the ukr. side about this incoming missile attack from russian jets. I am curious about the weapons the russians used here. Maybe some Kh-35 aka SS-N-25 in the air to ground variant. But looking at one of the huge craters, i think of something like Kh-101 too. It has a huge warhead and is stealthy ...
​

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## thetutle

Ive been reading Russian forums, and the general gist of what si being said is this:

1) Sanctions are a joke. it is not affecting russia. Al goods are im stock. only type of oil that has increased on price is olive oil and its 4 times more expensive. Otherwise all sanctions will hit the west much more than they will hit russia.

2) russia has run out of the Kalibir missile but they are woking in 3 shifts to produce more. 

3) a certain type of gas (neon?) that only russia and Ukraine have is necessary for the electronics and microprocessor industry to function. 

4) Chechens are a joke and PR stunt. "our boys" are dying and Chechens are taking pictures of their beards in the back. Chechens are useless fighters since they were so easily defeated by the mighty Russians. 

5) There should be no ukrianian army, and russia should not leave until they only have police with handguns. 

6) Ukranians should accept being a part of the Russian empire. How can English have Scotland and Irish people in their empire but Russians cant even have ukranians? Ukranisn dont have to like it, just as the Scots dont like England. But they will get used to it. 

7) the west is shocked at the level of efficiency and strength of the Russian army. 

So, there, this is what's going on in the Russian mind at least as expressed in certain Russian language forums.

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## F-22Raptor

thetutle said:


> Ive been reading Russian forums, and the general gist of what si being said is this:
> 
> 1) Sanctions are a joke. it is not affecting russia. Al goods are im stock. only type of oil that has increased on price is olive oil and its 4 times more expensive. Otherwise all sanctions will hit the west much more than they will hit russia.
> 
> 2) russia has run out of the Kalibir missile but they are woking in 3 shifts to produce more.
> 
> 3) a certain type of gas (neon?) that only russia and Ukraine have is necessary for the electronics and microprocessor industry to function.
> 
> 4) Chechens are a joke and PR stunt. "our boys" are dying and Chechens are taking pictures of their beards in the back. Chechens are useless fighters since they were so easily defeated by the mighty Russians.
> 
> 5) There should be no ukrianian army, and russia should not leave until they only have police with handguns.
> 
> 6) Ukranians should accept being a part of the Russian empire. How can English have Scotland and Irish people in their empire but Russians cant even have ukranians? Ukranisn dont have to like it, just as the Scots dont like England. But they will get used to it.
> 
> 7) the west is shocked at the level of efficiency and strength of the Russian army.
> 
> So, there, this is what's going on in the Russian mind at least as expressed in certain Russian language forums.




They are completely delusional.

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## lightning F57

F-22Raptor said:


> They are completely delusional.


I have to agree


----------



## mohd497

thetutle said:


> 3) a certain type of gas (neon?) that only russia and Ukraine have is necessary for the electronics and microprocessor industry to function.


This! Why no one is saying that Ukraine is largest provider of neon gas? If russia occupy ukraine not only west will be dependent on its oil, gas but also neon!


----------



## gambit

mohd497 said:


> This! Why no one is saying that Ukraine is largest provider of neon gas? If russia occupy ukraine not only west will be dependent on its oil, gas but also neon!


The largest provider of a product does not mean the only provider of that product. If the largest provider is impaired for whatever reason, other providers will increase their output to try to meet demands.

Did you know that the US SR-71 was built with Soviet titanium? Lockheed is a famous weapons company in the US and the Soviet Union was the world's highest, not the only, output source of titanium. If Lockheed openly went to the Soviet Union to buy titanium, the Soviet would suspect something new in US aviation. Lockheed cannot afford that. So Lockheed created shell companies to buy as much titanium as possible from the Soviet Union to meet deadline.

Assuming that the neon gas story is true. Russia has to sell. The economic damages inflicted on Russia is just as terrible as the physical damages Russia is inflicting on Ukraine. The Ukrainians must fight. Russia must sell.

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## coffee_cup

It would be a wise decision for all those foreign mercenaries to hear their govt's advice and stay back home. They are not up against Afghanistan or Iraq where they march on completely destroyed cities and armies. Neither is it a computer game where a "reset button" will give them another life.

Here they are up against an actual military force. US/UK/European govts are right to discourage them from joining. 

Do something useful with your lives and help people back home who are in need instead.

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## EvoluXon

No


thetutle said:


> Ive been reading Russian forums, and the general gist of what si being said is this:
> 
> 1) Sanctions are a joke. it is not affecting russia. Al goods are im stock. only type of oil that has increased on price is olive oil and its 4 times more expensive. Otherwise all sanctions will hit the west much more than they will hit russia.
> 
> 2) russia has run out of the Kalibir missile but they are woking in 3 shifts to produce more.
> 
> 3) a certain type of gas (neon?) that only russia and Ukraine have is necessary for the electronics and microprocessor industry to function.
> 
> 4) Chechens are a joke and PR stunt. "our boys" are dying and Chechens are taking pictures of their beards in the back. Chechens are useless fighters since they were so easily defeated by the mighty Russians.
> 
> 5) There should be no ukrianian army, and russia should not leave until they only have police with handguns.
> 
> 6) Ukranians should accept being a part of the Russian empire. How can English have Scotland and Irish people in their empire but Russians cant even have ukranians? Ukranisn dont have to like it, just as the Scots dont like England. But they will get used to it.
> 
> 7) the west is shocked at the level of efficiency and strength of the Russian army.
> 
> So, there, this is what's going on in the Russian mind at least as expressed in certain Russian language forums.


North korean public - version 2.0


----------



## 8888888888888

thetutle said:


> Ive been reading Russian forums, and the general gist of what si being said is this:
> 
> 1) Sanctions are a joke. it is not affecting russia. Al goods are im stock. only type of oil that has increased on price is olive oil and its 4 times more expensive. Otherwise all sanctions will hit the west much more than they will hit russia.
> 
> 2) russia has run out of the Kalibir missile but they are woking in 3 shifts to produce more.
> 
> 3) a certain type of gas (neon?) that only russia and Ukraine have is necessary for the electronics and microprocessor industry to function.
> 
> 4) Chechens are a joke and PR stunt. "our boys" are dying and Chechens are taking pictures of their beards in the back. Chechens are useless fighters since they were so easily defeated by the mighty Russians.
> 
> 5) There should be no ukrianian army, and russia should not leave until they only have police with handguns.
> 
> 6) Ukranians should accept being a part of the Russian empire. How can English have Scotland and Irish people in their empire but Russians cant even have ukranians? Ukranisn dont have to like it, just as the Scots dont like England. But they will get used to it.
> 
> 7) the west is shocked at the level of efficiency and strength of the Russian army.
> 
> So, there, this is what's going on in the Russian mind at least as expressed in certain Russian language forums.


US and co should be worried about No.1 because this means their Sanctions are not working,


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503275437962764288


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503297270355271681

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## Enigma SIG

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503297270355271681


Tough bird.

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## Maarkhoor

Enigma SIG said:


> Tough bird.


Miracle of duel engines, it can save pilot and jet both...sadly we don't have any duel engines aircraft in our inventory.

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## thetutle

8888888888888 said:


> US and co should be worried about No.1 because this means their Sanctions are not working,


No, it means they are delusional.

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## nangyale

Maarkhoor said:


> Miracle of duel engines, it can safe pilot and jet both...sadly we don't have any duel engines aircraft in our inventory.


Don't believe many other dual engined aircrafts could have survived such a strike.

The Su25 is one of the best ground attack aircraft because of this.

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## Invicta

thetutle said:


> 6) Ukranians should accept being a part of the Russian empire. How can English have Scotland and Irish people in their empire but Russians cant even have ukranians? Ukranisn dont have to like it, just as the Scots dont like England. But they will get used to it.
> 
> 7) the west is shocked at the level of efficiency and strength of the Russian army.


Have you seen weee old Krankie cross the border, have you heard her squeem freeddddoooooommm. If she was in Russia under Russian Empire her only audience would be the empty wall of gulag cell. That is the difference why in all the animosity constant verbal fights UK is still united. 

The only shock west has got is how it had overestimated Russian competence.


----------



## Maarkhoor

nangyale said:


> Don't believe many other dual engined aircrafts could have survived such a strike.
> 
> The Su25 is one of the best ground attack aircraft because of this.


F-18 and many others did it.

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## Invicta

Maarkhoor said:


> F-18 and many others did it.


I don't know if A10-Thunderbolt faced such a situation but it was built along the same principles so would be classed as a flying tank.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503321892865941504

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## RescueRanger

The Ukrainian authorities have asked to suspend sending of French volunteers to the country after a Russian *Strike* on the *Yavoriv* military training ground in the Lviv region, as a result of which up to 180 *Foreign* mercenaries were killed.








The #Ukrainian Authorities Have Asked to Suspend Sending of #French Volunteers to the ... - Latest Tweet by IANS India | 📰 LatestLY


The latest Tweet by IANS India states, 'The #Ukrainian authorities have asked to suspend sending of #French volunteers to the country after a Russian strike on the #Yavoriv military training ground in the Lviv region, as a result of which up to 180 foreign mercenaries were killed.' 📰 The...




www.latestly.com




*---Informational---*
A large number of foreign volunteers were killed by Russian shelling in Western Ukraine. This centre which was located on the outskirt of Lviv close to the Polish border was home to the contingent of foreign volunteers, military advisors "instructors/trainers" and a reception/staging post for new volunteers. 






_Out of a team of 200 combat experienced volunteers_ - *only 30 remain*, complaints of food, water, power and ammo running out with low morale throughout:





Another Brazilian national reported surviving the attack stating that close to 180 foreign volunteers were killed in the Russian strike on the reception and training centre:




---



Enigma SIG said:


> Tough bird.


They don't call them the flying tank for nothing.

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## Iñigo

At this point in the film (ca. 2022) ...

... it is clear "like the broth of an asylum" that ThutMoses III and Tiglath-Pileser III were fucxxxx amateurs compared to the colossal and deadly Anglo-Empire in its first (1814-) and second (1945-) version

Spreading chaos and terror across the face of the earth ... non stop

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## Paul2

nangyale said:


> Don't believe many other dual engined aircrafts could have survived such a strike.
> 
> The Su25 is one of the best ground attack aircraft because of this.



Dual engine will save you from a SMALL MANPAD, but even a heavier, tripod mounted one like RBS 70 will take it down in 9 out of 10 times.

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## Vergennes

For the first time, Moscow recognizes that the invasion in Ukraine is not going entirely according to the plans. “I would say that everything is not going as fast as we wanted,” explained the head of the Russian National Guard, Viktor Zolotov, on Sunday evening. @F-22Raptor

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## coffee_cup

RescueRanger said:


> The Ukrainian authorities have asked to suspend sending of French volunteers to the country after a Russian *Strike* on the *Yavoriv* military training ground in the Lviv region, as a result of which up to 180 *Foreign* mercenaries were killed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The #Ukrainian Authorities Have Asked to Suspend Sending of #French Volunteers to the ... - Latest Tweet by IANS India | 📰 LatestLY
> 
> 
> The latest Tweet by IANS India states, 'The #Ukrainian authorities have asked to suspend sending of #French volunteers to the country after a Russian strike on the #Yavoriv military training ground in the Lviv region, as a result of which up to 180 foreign mercenaries were killed.' 📰 The...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.latestly.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *---Informational---*
> A large number of foreign volunteers were killed by Russian shelling in Western Ukraine. This centre which was located on the outskirt of Lviv close to the Polish border was home to the contingent of foreign volunteers, military advisors "instructors/trainers" and a reception/staging post for new volunteers.
> View attachment 823985
> 
> 
> _Out of a team of 200 combat experienced volunteers_ - *only 30 remain*, complaints of food, water, power and ammo running out with low morale throughout:
> View attachment 823986
> 
> 
> Another Brazilian national reported surviving the attack stating that close to 180 foreign volunteers were killed in the Russian strike on the reception and training centre:
> View attachment 823987
> 
> ---
> 
> 
> They don't call them the flying tank for nothing.



Of course this war is much different:

1) Unlike Afghanistan, Iraq they are up against an enemy who actually has air force and other deadly weapons

2) There is no real active NATO air / logistics support which they are quite used to when they are in Afghanistan/Iraq up against rag tag militants

It would be better to provide support online in Twitter e.g. or waving some Ukraine flags. Moral support is also good support, no need to put life on risk.

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## Vergennes

Vergennes said:


> For the first time, Moscow recognizes that the invasion in Ukraine is not going entirely according to the plans. “I would say that everything is not going as fast as we wanted,” explained the head of the Russian National Guard, Viktor Zolotov, on Sunday evening. @F-22Raptor



Kadyrov's presence in Ukraine is another sign that all is not going as the Russians would have liked.


----------



## reflecthofgeismar

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503191931739901955



Now we know why Russian soldiers are looting food rations from Ukrainian stores.
Not enough that their generals sold the fuel, no, T-90MF(at) was rolling through the camps before the war.


----------



## coffee_cup

Vergennes said:


> Kadyrov's presence in Ukraine is another sign that all is not going as the Russians would have liked.



And what is it according to you that "Russians would have liked" ? Can you tell us about what Russian actual plan was?


----------



## Iñigo



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## sammuel

~

Hope they stop this pointless war which is bad for the whole world.

This is from yesterday , lets see how the talks go today :

Russia and Ukraine give brightest assessment yet of progress in talks on war​
March 13 (Reuters) - Russian and Ukrainian officials gave their most upbeat assessments yet on Sunday of progress in their talks on the war in Ukraine, suggesting there could be positive results within days.

Separately, U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman said Russia was showing signs of willingness to engage in substantive negotiations about ending a conflict in which thousands have died. More than 2.5 million people have fled.

Ukraine has said it is willing to negotiate, but not to surrender or accept any ultimatums.

"We will not concede in principle on any positions. Russia now understands this. Russia is already beginning to talk constructively," Ukrainian negotiator and presidential adviser Mykhailo Podolyak said in a video posted online.

"I think that we will achieve some results literally in a matter of days," he said.

RIA news agency quoted a Russian delegate, Leonid Slutsky, as saying the talks had made substantial progress.

"According to my personal expectations, this progress may grow in the coming days into a joint position of both delegations, into documents for signing," Slutsky said.

Neither side indicated what the scope of any agreement might be.









Russia and Ukraine give brightest assessment yet of progress in talks on war


Russian and Ukrainian officials gave their most upbeat assessments yet on Sunday of progress in their talks on the war in Ukraine, suggesting there could be positive results within days.




www.reuters.com

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## Vergennes

coffee_cup said:


> And what is it according to you that "Russians would have liked" ? Can you tell us about what Russian actual plan was?



What was "Russia's plan"?

Putin bet on a clean and swift operation,the quick surrender of Ukraine and eastern Ukraine rallying on the Russian cause,welcoming Russian troops as liberators,a quick war that would limit the worldwide outrage and the world's response to the Russian invasion.

The exact opposite happened. Ukraine is resisting,majority Russian speaking towns are the ones resisting the most to Russian assaults,Zelensky didn't surrender,Ukrainians living under Russian occupation haven't welcomed Russian as liberators,but are protesting against the occupier. Belarus troops were supposed to join the war much earlier,they haven't to this day.

Meanwhile the operation is pretty much stalling. Because the longer the operation lasts,the higher the cost is in Russian lives and for Russian finances. (You've got to fund that 200K strong force.... and they can't forever).

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503301117429620736

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## Wood

thetutle said:


> Ive been reading Russian forums, and the general gist of what si being said is this:
> 
> 1) Sanctions are a joke. it is not affecting russia. Al goods are im stock. only type of oil that has increased on price is olive oil and its 4 times more expensive. Otherwise all sanctions will hit the west much more than they will hit russia.
> 
> 2) russia has run out of the Kalibir missile but they are woking in 3 shifts to produce more.
> 
> 3) a certain type of gas (neon?) that only russia and Ukraine have is necessary for the electronics and microprocessor industry to function.
> 
> 4) Chechens are a joke and PR stunt. "our boys" are dying and Chechens are taking pictures of their beards in the back. Chechens are useless fighters since they were so easily defeated by the mighty Russians.
> 
> 5) There should be no ukrianian army, and russia should not leave until they only have police with handguns.
> 
> 6) Ukranians should accept being a part of the Russian empire. How can English have Scotland and Irish people in their empire but Russians cant even have ukranians? Ukranisn dont have to like it, just as the Scots dont like England. But they will get used to it.
> 
> 7) the west is shocked at the level of efficiency and strength of the Russian army.
> 
> So, there, this is what's going on in the Russian mind at least as expressed in certain Russian language forums.


Very interesting view. Wish there were more Z boys in this discussion.

It is surprising to see that Chechen group is not respected despite their obvious loyalty to Putin. Seems like Russian Z boys are no less racist than the Ukranian Nazi afterall

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503304316114948101


----------



## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503234229412397056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503340122703548422


----------



## RescueRanger

Belarusian forces seen in convoy next to the Ukrainian border:

52.15899632270519, 25.57757971739496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503343812449603586






Drone footage emerges capturing the scale of the destruction inside Mariupol at present:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503289867387740162

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## Meengla

thetutle said:


> Russia is drawing down troops From Syria and Nagrono Karabakh in order to deploy in Ukraine. As well as troops from the Far East and the Syrians themselves.
> 
> They have truly humiliated themselves.
> 
> To be fair they are fighting 150,000 ukranians who have full logistical, Intel and financial support from nato. I'd say that Ukranians have better battlespace awareness Than the Russians.
> 
> More satellites, more airborne radar. Ukranians are probably fed every flightpath of every Russian air asset. I would be very worried if I was a Russian soldier.



As I have been saying, Ukraine is no babe in the woods. Ukraine has the backing of the mightiest military alliance on Earth and Ukraine has its own resources, huge population, and is fighting on its home turf--and fighting for their own country. I think in a war, at least a 3 times superiority is needed by the invaders. If anything, Ukraine has some advantages over Russia.


----------



## coffee_cup

Vergennes said:


> What was "Russia's plan"?
> 
> Putin bet on a clean and swift operation,the quick surrender of Ukraine and eastern Ukraine rallying on the Russian cause,welcoming Russian troops as liberators,a quick war that would limit the worldwide outrage and the world's response to the Russian invasion.
> 
> The exact opposite happened. Ukraine is resisting,majority Russian speaking towns are the ones resisting the most to Russian assaults,Zelensky didn't surrender,Ukrainians living under Russian occupation haven't welcomed Russian as liberators,but are protesting against the occupier. Belarus troops were supposed to join the war much earlier,they haven't to this day.
> 
> Meanwhile the operation is pretty much stalling. Because the longer the operation lasts,the higher the cost is in Russian lives and for Russian finances. (You've got to fund that 200K strong force.... and they can't forever).



What is clean and swift operation?

Completed in 1 month? 2 months? 6 months?


Since I havent seen anywhere written about the duration, I am hoping you could help with that.


PS: Of course you are right about prolonged war, it is no one's interest. The faster it ends the better for everyone and above all for Ukrainian people who have to leave their houses to live in other countries.

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## RescueRanger

_Russian military activity from Belarus. Source: Motolko




_
Source: Rochan Consulting





POL storage tanks on fire at Hostomel airport March 11.





Russian attack helicopters in Valyuki, Russia: 38.109926, 50.225098

Russian Naval vessels in the Black Sea (Russian Occupied Ukraine): 
32.9861055, 45.2979871 




32.9687637, 45.2716594




32.9903485, 45.2546928 




30.2075381, 45.2395354

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## Paul2

I think we are clear now about tanks.

Very, very few tanks, and other pieces of armour were destroyed by other tanks direct fire. Less than 1 in 10, I'd say, and those are from tank launched ATGMs.

From now on, we know: armour is about active protection systems, and anti-armour is more about long range, indirect firepower on intel.

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## RescueRanger

Russians troops seen with captured Javelins:






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503350333451472902
Just in: President Zelensky has informed the Council of Europe that he is now unable to address them given urgent matters in Ukraine, and the Ukrainian Prime Minister will address the council instead later today.

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## xuxu1457

Think about it, the missiles Germany gave Ukraine were all produced during the Soviet period, so Russia must have a lot of military stocks, and there is no need to ask China for military assistance, which is impossible.

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## sur

We never heard of *last 8 years* of bombing of Donbass at the hands of criminals within Ukrainian. Because MSM never mentioned that.
All are so sad about last 2 weeks only. Because *Western media and instigators told us to be sad about one side of the story only*.

Civilians attacked by the likes of Azov, *whom US/UK admitted training to fight Donbas & a government installed by US *for last 8 years; instigators don't want us to sad about those.

For Pakistani members, think of "کشمیر". Crimea is like "آزاد کشمیر", Donbas is like "مقبوضہ کشمیر".
So vouching for propagandist instigators is like vouching for oppressors of last many years while ignoring the plight of "کشمیری".

So if you want to be sad, be sad for losses on both sides. But practice a *first come first serve*.



Spoiler: Civilian Casualties in Donetsk





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503321952160780288






Spoiler: Graphic - Civilian in bus















Spoiler: Graphic - Donbas attacked by Ukrainians





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503311373434032129




Bank:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503340600078315521
Residential:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503351363639689216
.
.
.


*2015*​
Azov funding Banned:





(src) (src)




*2016*​Under *pressure from Pentagon*:
Ban removed:





(src) (src)
.

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## Wood

Paul2 said:


> I think we are clear now about tanks.
> 
> Very, very few tanks, and other pieces of armour were destroyed by other tanks direct fire. Less than 1 in 10, I'd say, and those are from tank launched ATGMs.
> 
> From now on, we know: armour is about active protection systems, and anti-armour is more about long range, indirect firepower on intel.


Have the Russians had success in employing active protection systems in their tanks? I don't remember reading anything about that in this thread so far


----------



## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503351879455150087
Just in:

Russian warships approaching the city of Berdyansk

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503352786456662017
Geo located: 46.741555499569586, 36.792994019746956

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503294485517713415
Seems like GOI may take the bait

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503352707251322885

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503353061183524867

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503353220495728645

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## Pehalwan Pintu Dedha

Wood said:


> Could it be possible for Putin to hold on to conquered territory in Ukraine and keep Russia economically afloat until his man Trump gets back into the White House in 2024? That may also be a good way out for him.



Russia cannot survive two years with these sanctionss. Even Trump would not be able to lift those sanctions because of backlash.There is so many blood fall in this war which even Gurjan won't allow;

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503355647726870537


----------



## Meengla

As I have been saying, China is the biggest winner of this conflict. While that victory is not guaranteed for long term but then nothing is guaranteed in life. Here is an article worth reading.









China Sees at Least One Winner Emerging From Ukraine War: China


The country’s leaders think it can shield itself from economic and diplomatic fallout and eventually be seen as a pillar of stability.




www.nytimes.com





"In recent weeks, Chinese analysts have repeatedly cited the century-old writings of a British geographer, Sir Halford John Mackinder. *Whoever controls Central Europe controls the vast landmass stretching from Europe to Asia, he argued. Whoever controls Eurasia can dominate the world*.

A modern Russian proponent of such thinking, Aleksandr G. Dugin, has written extensively on what he sees as a growing clash between the liberal, decadent West and a conservative Eurasian continent with Russia as its soul."

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## Vergennes

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503352707251322885
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503353061183524867



Amazing footage,looks like something straight outta battlefield 3/4.

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503356591906734089

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503176152755716097

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## xuxu1457



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## Vergennes

The Kremlin says the Russian army does not rule out gaining “full control” of major Ukrainian cities.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503334525253914631


----------



## Bengal71

Wood said:


> Very interesting view. Wish there were more Z boys in this discussion.
> 
> It is surprising to see that Chechen group is not respected despite their obvious loyalty to Putin. Seems like Russian Z boys are no less racist than the Ukranian Nazi afterall



I doubt the Chechens are loyal to Putin, only Kadyrov is.

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## Iñigo

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503321952160780288
Since 2014 killing Russian-Ukrainians

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## Pehalwan Pintu Dedha

Type59 said:


> Chinese have advanced drones, soo nothing insulting about it. Winning is more important then saving face.



Is it better than Turkish one ? I learnt only Americans and Israelis has better drones than Turkish.


----------



## RescueRanger



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## sal29

thetutle said:


> Chinese ability to fight in a world war are irrelevant. They would be obliterated in a US nuclear attack.



And yes they reciprocate equally or do you think their nuclear bombs don't work or they don't have second strike capability? So the argument the Chinese ability to fight world war is irrelevant as much as the western ability to fight it.

Stop smoking that weed man !!

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503367218452652033


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503367343606575108

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503367619453280256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503365400939147273

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503368370137272321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503311483328995328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503368582742384644

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503367619453280256


----------



## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503370205640146949


----------



## PakAlp

Aljazeera

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## dBSPL

S-300 TEL abandoned by the Ukrainian army

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## maverick1977

It seems like that the tide of war is tilting towards Russia as they are unleashing more firepower day by day... I hope Zelensky will get some sense and negotiate and will save his people.

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## Wood

Meengla said:


> As I have been saying, China is the biggest winner of this conflict. While that victory is not guaranteed for long term but then nothing is guaranteed in life. Here is an article worth reading.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China Sees at Least One Winner Emerging From Ukraine War: China
> 
> 
> The country’s leaders think it can shield itself from economic and diplomatic fallout and eventually be seen as a pillar of stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com


Very interesting read.

But do you think that it is fair to say that China is the only winner? At best, you can say that China is a winner in the economic sense. In the geopolitical sphere, US has regained its leadership role among western countries. Biden formed AUKUS because of his frustration in not being able to convince EU countries to put their security interests over economic interests. EU was under the notion that both interests can be mutually exclusive. This philosophy led them to get into bed with Russia for energy needs. Now that is not the case anymore. Is this not a win for US?

Secondly, the prediction that China will be a winner rests on the assumption that Putin (or his ilk) will continue to lead Russia for the next decade or more. Can anyone be sure of that? What if the dictator gets an unforeseen ailment? Or gradually looses his appeal under economic decline? Will the racist Russian skin heads who support Z be willing to accept Chinese whim for ever and ever?

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## kuge

Menthol said:


> Not for long.
> 
> USA people can't any longer eat McD anymore as well.
> 
> So basically, it's not Russian people who are going to miss it.
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny.
> 
> Is that so hard for Russia to beat out a tiny country like Ukraine???


why not? it is just like tiny countries beat the crap out of biggies in soccer


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## kuge

kuge said:


> why not? it is just like tiny countries beat the crap out of biggies in soccer





thetutle said:


> I am too rich to die. There is no need anyway. Ukraine is not my country. They are living on lands stolen from Muslims. There are 450 million people in the EU that will finance this and go fight as they know that their freedom depends on russia being destroyed.
> 
> Also, I, like trump has a bone in my foot and military wont take me.


you should be the commander of No Action Talk Only....

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## nang2

Meengla said:


> As I have been saying, China is the biggest winner of this conflict. While that victory is not guaranteed for long term but then nothing is guaranteed in life. Here is an article worth reading.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China Sees at Least One Winner Emerging From Ukraine War: China
> 
> 
> The country’s leaders think it can shield itself from economic and diplomatic fallout and eventually be seen as a pillar of stability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "In recent weeks, Chinese analysts have repeatedly cited the century-old writings of a British geographer, Sir Halford John Mackinder. *Whoever controls Central Europe controls the vast landmass stretching from Europe to Asia, he argued. Whoever controls Eurasia can dominate the world*.
> 
> A modern Russian proponent of such thinking, Aleksandr G. Dugin, has written extensively on what he sees as a growing clash between the liberal, decadent West and a conservative Eurasian continent with Russia as its soul."


I think the recent claim that China is the biggest winner is mostly a propaganda piece, aiming at preventing China from supplying Russia. China, if it is a winner, is only a very small winner benefited from US being distracted. It gets very little material gain with fairly large publicity risk.

I think the biggest winner is US with its brinkmanship policy that keeps on pushing Russia. If Russia pushes back, like this case, Russia loses due to the massive backlash. If Russia doesn't, US further strengthens its position in Ukraine against Russia. Either way, US wins.

As of losers, Russia is certainly one of them but the biggest is Ukraine.

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## Wood

nang2 said:


> As of losers, Russia is certainly one of them but the *biggest is Ukraine.*


Ukraine is a victim of Russian hyper nationalism. The US to an extent allowed it to happen. If NATO countries had imposed more strict sanctions against Russia after 2014, things would have not reached this crescendo.


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## Meengla

Wood said:


> Very interesting read.
> 
> But do you think that it is fair to say that China is the only winner? At best, you can say that China is a winner in the economic sense. In the geopolitical sphere, US has regained its leadership role among western countries. Biden formed AUKUS because of his frustration in not being able to convince EU countries to put their security interests over economic interests. EU was under the notion that both interests can be mutually exclusive. This philosophy led them to get into bed with Russia for energy needs. Now that is not the case anymore. Is this not a win for US?
> 
> Secondly, the prediction that China will be a winner rests on the assumption that Putin (or his ilk) will continue to lead Russia for the next decade or more. Can anyone be sure of that? What if the dictator gets an unforeseen ailment? Or gradually looses his appeal under economic decline? Will the racist Russian skin heads who support Z be willing to accept Chinese whim for ever and ever?



Good Points.
No, China is not the only winner. I had said in a post above that China is the No. 1 winner and America is the No. 2 from this conflict. The cost will be borne by Russians, Ukrainians, and other European countries.
But you are right: Who knows what a post-Putin Russia would look like? China gains in short term at least. But Russia, at least to the west of the Urals (minus the Caucasus region) is destined to be part of Europe. Only if some powers had waited for a few more decades...

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## Al_Muhannad

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503240203884019712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503212791813095424


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## nang2

Wood said:


> Ukraine is a victim of Russian hyper nationalism. The US to an extent allowed it to happen. If NATO countries had imposed more strict sanctions against Russia after 2014, things would have not reached this crescendo.


No, Ukraine is a victim of their own naivety. If you sit next to a big fire, play it carefully or you will be burned. US played right into the internal conflict in Ukraine and encouraged its reckless policy. Its democracy is a joke. It is just a tool for some groups of people to oppress other groups. US knows it well and they indoctrinate Ukrainian into it. They always promote democracy, never freedom, certainly never about the freedom of the minority.

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## Wood

Meengla said:


> Good Points.
> No, China is not the only winner. I had said in a post above that China is the No. 1 winner and America is the No. 2 from this conflict. The cost will be borne by Russians, Ukrainians, and other European countries.
> But you are right: Who knows what a post-Putin Russia would look like? China gains in short term at least. But Russia, at least to the west of the Urals (minus the Caucasus region) is destined to be part of Europe. Only if some powers had waited for a few more decades...


One of the problems with Russia - China economic integration is that the Russian industries are concentrated close to its European border. As you know, the Chinese industries are concentrated on the coastal region. The rail based connectivity between the regions will be a choke point. But of course, this is not a limitation for resource extraction from other parts of Russia.

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## nang2

Wood said:


> One of the problems with Russia - China economic integration is that the Russian industries are concentrated close to its European border. As you know, the Chinese industries are concentrated on the coastal region. The rail based connectivity between the regions will be a choke point. But of course, this is not a limitation for resource extraction from other parts of Russia.


It won't be a choke point since nobody dares to attack it. Given the size of the Russian economy, I think that rail link works just fine.

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## Wood

nang2 said:


> No, Ukraine is a victim of their own naivety. If you sit next to a big fire, play it carefully or you will be burned. US played right into the internal conflict in Ukraine and encouraged its reckless policy. Its democracy is a joke. It is just a tool for some groups of people to oppress other groups. *US knows it well and they indoctrinate Ukrainian into it. They always promote democracy, never freedom*, certainly never about the freedom of the minority.


I don't buy this narrative of 'US the big bad bully' that many Chinese like to proselytize the internet with.  

Ukraine is a sovereign nation. The Russians are not willing to accept their sovereignty and want suzerainty over them. This is the core of the problem in my view.



nang2 said:


> It won't be a choke point since nobody dares to attack it. Given the size of the Russian economy, I think that rail link works just fine.


Not every corridor needs to be attacked. Even simply maintenance can be troublesome. We can all 'think' whatever suits our comfort


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## Al_Muhannad

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503381415249035268

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## Meengla

Wood said:


> I don't buy this narrative of 'US the big bad bully' that many Chinese like to proselytize the internet with.
> 
> Ukraine is a sovereign nation. The Russians are not willing to accept their sovereignty and want suzerainty over them. This is the core of the problem in my view.



I think you are very conveniently forgetting that America has claimed an entire _hemisphere _for itself and also launched a totally illegal war against Iraq in 2003. Add to them, some other acts of hypocrisy: Cuba was a sovereign country in 60 years ago but you know what happened during the Cuban Missile Crisis. These contradictions are pointed out by even some prominent Americans...
It's best to not throw stones while sitting in a glass house.

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## Wood

Meengla said:


> I think you are very conveniently forgetting that America has claimed an entire _hemisphere _for itself and also launched a totally illegal war against Iraq in 2003. Add to them, some other acts of hypocrisy: Cuba was a sovereign country in 60 years ago but you know what happened during the Cuban Missile Crisis. These contradictions are pointed out by even some prominent Americans...
> It's best to not throw stones while sitting in a glass house.


I've not said that the Americans or any great power for that matter is noble. Even many Americans are critical about American adventures in Iraq and Cuba. But this does not mean that every crisis in the world is because of America. Anti-American zealots always hope to paint this picture.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503383122787938312


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## nang2

Wood said:


> I don't buy this narrative of 'US the big bad bully' that many Chinese like to proselytize the internet with.
> 
> Ukraine is a sovereign nation. The Russians are not willing to accept their sovereignty and want suzerainty over them. This is the core of the problem in my view.
> 
> 
> Not every corridor needs to be attacked. Even simply maintenance can be troublesome. We can all 'think' whatever suits our comfort


No, US is not the big bad bully. Being a bully usually means to beat up little guys, which, of course, is also what US likes to do. But in this case, it is not beating up a little guy. It is pushing a guy with fair size. That is what all great powers do and they do it through proxies. In this case, the proxy is Ukraine who is naive enough to get himself into such a role.

In addition, all great powers like to have their neighbors to be either their suzerainty or their dependencies, not just Russia/US. China also acts that way. That is why after US withdrew from Vietnam, China refused North Vietnam's request for help to invade the south. It is for China's benefit that Vietnam remains divided and weak.

As of the rail corridor, if that becomes critical for China, it certainly has enough skills and manpower to take care of that. Need I remind you the rail building frenzy China has in recent years?



Wood said:


> I've not said that the Americans or any great power for that matter is noble. Even many Americans are critical about American adventures in Iraq and Cuba. But this does not mean that every crisis in the world is because of America. Anti-American zealots always hope to paint this picture.


Definitely not every crisis is because of America. But in this case, especially where NATO is the center of discussion, it is certainly because of America.

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## Wood

nang2 said:


> No, US is not the big bad bully. Being a bully usually means to beat up little guys, which, of course, is also what US likes to do. But in this case, it is not beating up a little guy. It is pushing a guy with fair size. That is what all great powers do and they do it through proxies. In this case, the proxy is Ukraine who is naive enough to get himself into such a role.
> 
> In addition, all great powers like to have their neighbors to be either their suzerainty or their dependencies, not just Russia/US. China also acts that way. That is why after US withdrew from Vietnam, China refused North Vietnam's request for help to invade the south. It is for China's benefit that Vietnam remains divided and weak.
> 
> As of the rail corridor, if that becomes critical for China, it certainly has enough skills and manpower to take care of that. Need I remind you the rail building frenzy China has in recent years?
> 
> 
> Definitely not every crisis is because of America. But in this case, especially where NATO is the center of discussion, it is certainly because of America.


Before people blame US /NATO for pushing Ukraine into this position, do they consider that Ukraine will have no use for NATO without Russian hyper nationalism breathing down their neck? Why is that never in question?! 

If Russians don't try to install a puppet regime in Ukraine and establish suzerainty over the ex-soviet states, then why would they both with NATO in the first place?

As for the rail link, I remember reading that a maintenance of this line caused a back up of good shipped between these two regions. This is where my knowledge of this rail link comes from. Just because Chinese have the man power and expertise to fix any such issue does not mean that they are born with a magic wand. Everything takes time and time is money!


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## nang2

Wood said:


> Before people blame US /NATO for pushing Ukraine into this position, do they consider that Ukraine will have no use for NATO without Russian hyper nationalism breathing down their neck? Why is that never in question?!
> 
> If Russians don't try to install a puppet regime in Ukraine and establish suzerainty over the ex-soviet states, then why would they both with NATO in the first place?
> 
> As for the rail link, I remember reading that a maintenance of this line caused a back up of good shipped between these two regions. This is where my knowledge of this rail link comes from. Just because Chinese have the man power and expertise to fix any such issue does not mean that they are born with a magic wand. Everything takes time and time is money!


That is why I said Ukrainians are naive. The moment they feel threatened from one side, they run for the other side. Did it never occur to them to strengthen themselves? You don't need to join NATO or Russia to be a militarily strong country. Look at it, for 3 decades after independence, Ukraine's own military and industrial base is still a joke. This is a country blessed with fertile lands and acquired a sizeable industrial sector from Soviet.

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## CrazyZ

sur said:


> *2015*​
> Azov funding Banned:
> 
> View attachment 824045
> 
> (src) (src)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *2016*​Under *pressure from Pentagon*:
> Unbanned:
> 
> View attachment 824047
> 
> (src) (src)
> .


USA has become a terrorist sponsor.


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## Wood

nang2 said:


> That is why I said Ukrainians are naive. The moment they feel threatened from one side, they run for the other side. Did it never occur to them to strengthen themselves? You don't need to join NATO or Russia to be a militarily strong country. Look at it, for 3 decades after independence, Ukraine's own military and industrial base is still a joke. This is a country blessed with fertile lands and acquired a sizeable industrial sector from Soviet.


Even Germany and France require US support to handle Russia. You expect a poor erstwhile Soviet state to be able to establish credible deterrence to Russia? New countries have incredible challenges in their formative years to establish their economy. Under such circumstances, I'll not blame Ukraine (or any other Baltic state) to run towards bigger powers for protection.

Even India is seeking a closet alliance with the West because of its inability to unilaterally deal with China. I will certainly not call Ukraine naive for seeking protection in NATO. It is just too bad for them that Putin is an uncompromising bully.

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## nang2

CrazyZ said:


> USA has become a terrorist sponsor.


There is always a distinction between "good" terrorists and "bad" terrorists.


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## Meengla

nang2 said:


> In addition, all great powers like to have their neighbors to be either their suzerainty or their dependencies, not just Russia/US. China also acts that way. That is why after US withdrew from Vietnam, China refused North Vietnam's request for help to invade the south. It is for China's benefit that Vietnam remains divided and weak.



I respect your honesty!!
It is Might is Right in entire human history. The Russian aggression is but the latest manifestation of that. And those who claim to own an entire hemisphere have no right to talk about 'sovereignty'. 
This world, the humanity is condemned to have eternal wars unless we are honest and informed about the causes and motivations behind wars. Our common enemies are war profiteers.

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## nang2

Wood said:


> Even Germany and France require US support to handle Russia. You expect a poor erstwhile Soviet state to be able to establish credible deterrence to Russia? New countries have incredible challenges in their formative years to establish their economy. Under such circumstances, I'll not blame Ukraine (or any other Baltic state) to run towards bigger powers for protection.
> 
> Even India is seeking a closet alliance with the West because of its inability to unilaterally deal with China. I will certainly not call Ukraine naive for seeking protection in NATO. It is just too bad for them that Putin is an uncompromising bully.


Germany is a sorry case since they would face strong suspicion if they massively rebuild their military. But France left NATO before. Not sure why they chose to come back later. They certainly have more independent mind in this area than Germany.

Actually, I give India more credit than you would. India plays a balanced game between Russia and US. It seeks economic benefit from US but its close relationship with Russia helps maintain its own independence and freedom. It is a lot smarter than Ukraine which has given up its own independence and freedom long ago. There is a saying that says: if you trade freedom for safety, you deserve neither freedom nor safety.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503394052208738304

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## nang2

Meengla said:


> I respect your honesty!!
> It is Might is Right in entire human history. The Russian aggression is but the latest manifestation of that. And those who claim to own an entire hemisphere have no right to talk about 'sovereignty'.
> This world, the humanity is condemned to have eternal wars unless we are honest and informed about the causes and motivations behind wars. Our common enemies are war profiteers.


Thanks. The sad news is that Might is Right is still with us. Each individual country may strive to achieve the protection of human right and the rule of law based on sound and humane principles. But among countries, might is still right. There is no meaningful enforcement of international laws, which are also not really respected internally by powerful countries.

But it is just a stage in the human evolution, which, like all other kinds of evolution, is a long and slow process. Human beings have come a long way from barbarity. I am still hopeful for the future.

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## SIPRA

nang2 said:


> Thanks. The sad news is that Might is Right is still with us. Each individual country may strive to achieve the protection of human right and the rule of law based on sound and humane principles. But among countries, might is still right. There is no meaningful enforcement of international laws, which are also not really respected internally by powerful countries.
> 
> But it is just a stage in the human evolution, which, like all other kinds of evolution, is a long and slow process. Human beings have come a long way from barbarity. I am still hopeful for the future.



Excellent post. A jist of collective human tragedy.

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## Apollon

dBSPL said:


> Greek leftists. Protestors burn NATO flag and march with Russia flags in Thessaloniki. @Apollon, Foinikas
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499179013759246340
> If they march as far as Alexandroupoli, I will support them from here.



There is a 5th column in evry country buddy. You have those in turkey too

Stugna P in action against a russian tank.

Those manpads and fire and forget rockets are the main reason why russia has such extreme high losses

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503397795323162633

The Pentagon assesses that Russia can’t encircle or take Kiev.


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## BHAN85

Russia has nothing to lost (and a lot to win) if they bomb Poland east military bases when they receive Western weapons shipments for Ukraine.

Biden and EU chiefs talking about WWIII is a bluf, a nonsense, nobody will move a finger militarily due to Poland, NATO is a false and corrupt organization, and USA lie without stop.

And Russia is already all the economic sanctioned they can be.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503401052250554370
The US now assesses that almost all of Russian advances have stalled

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## kingQamaR

BHAN85 said:


> Russia has nothing to lost (and a lot to win) if they bomb Poland east military bases when they receive Western weapons shipments for Ukraine.
> 
> Biden and EU chiefs talking about WWIII is a bluf, a nonsense, nobody will move a finger militarily due to Poland, NATO is a false and corrupt organization, and USA lie without stop.
> 
> And Russia is already all the economic sanctioned they can be.




We'd always feared the Russian army but this war has proven they aren't the threat we thought they were, I reckon NATO could walk all over them within about a week, I can see now why Putin is terrified of NATO.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503371066026217478

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## Apollon

BHAN85 said:


> Russia has nothing to lost (and a lot to win) if they bomb Poland east military bases when they receive Western weapons shipments for Ukraine.
> 
> Biden and EU chiefs talking about WWIII is a bluf, a nonsense, nobody will move a finger militarily due to Poland, NATO is a false and corrupt organization, and USA lie without stop.
> 
> And Russia is already all the economic sanctioned they can be.




Considering how weak russia is against Ukraine its doubtful that Poland would even need NATO support to march through to Moscow. With his botched attack Putin revealed weakness. Something that does not only interest NATO but also China.


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## Meengla

kingQamaR said:


> We'd always feared the Russian army but this war has proven they aren't the threat we thought they were, I reckon NATO could walk all over them within about a week, I can see now why Putin is terrified of NATO.



Are you serious??
Russia has the nuclear blackmail, pointing hundreds, if not thousands, of nukes over several countries, from God knows where. They would pulverize any approaching armies with tactical nukes and if they feel all will be lost then they will go down bringing the world down with them.
But, yes, in a conventional war, Russia is crap. It is so ironic that the Western nukes were the deterrent against the Soviet conventional power and now the situation is reversed. How the mighties [Russians] have fallen!!


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503368254840090629

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## kingQamaR

I wonder who has more satellites over looking Ukraine: the allies, choosing to do nothing or Putin giving orders to destroy everything there? Judging by these pictures and videos, it looks like the Russian satellites lead to nefarious acts on the poor population.


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## Wood

nang2 said:


> Germany is a sorry case since they would face strong suspicion if they massively rebuild their military. But France left NATO before. Not sure why they chose to come back later. They certainly have more independent mind in this area than Germany.
> 
> Actually, I give India more credit than you would. India plays a balanced game between Russia and US. It seeks economic benefit from US but its close relationship with Russia helps maintain its own independence and freedom. It is a lot smarter than Ukraine which has given up its own independence and freedom long ago. There is a saying that says: if you trade freedom for safety, you deserve neither freedom nor safety.


If seeking an alliance with NATO is giving up freedom, then none of the European countries are free. The trope about freedom vs security usually reserved for domestic surveillance. It does not translate well when there is a invading bully who is trying to takeover the country. This idea of blaming the victim and calling the smaller country 'naive' for wanting to remain independent of a hegemon is no different from blaming a rape victim 

As for India's 'balanced' game, India does not have a choice in the matter. India has an illusion of choice, not a real choice given its dependency on Russian military hardware. If you look at the narrative in Indian media, majority support Ukraine's sovereignty. This is true from across the political spectrum except for left/right wingers. But everyone is just in a muted agreement that India does not have a choice in this matter.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503370145921654789

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## nang2

Wood said:


> If seeking an alliance with NATO is giving up freedom, then none of the European countries are free. The trope about freedom vs security usually reserved for domestic surveillance. It does not translate well when there is a invading bully who is trying to takeover the country. This idea of blaming the victim and calling the smaller country 'naive' for wanting to remain independent of a hegemon is no different from blaming a rape victim
> 
> As for India's 'balanced' game, India does not have a choice in the matter. India has an illusion of choice, not a real choice given its dependency on Russian military hardware. If you look at the narrative in Indian media, majority support Ukraine's sovereignty. This is true from across the political spectrum except for left/right wingers. But everyone is just in a muted agreement that India does not have a choice in this matter.


Seeking an alliance with NATO WITHOUT your own strong defense is giving up freedom. In another word, a country without its own strong defense but relying on NATO is more of a leech on US taxpayers. It is not independence. It is dependence.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503408204734242819

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503408692800143361

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## kingQamaR

Meengla said:


> Are you serious??
> Russia has the nuclear blackmail, pointing hundreds, if not thousands, of nukes over several countries, from God knows where. They would pulverize any approaching armies with tactical nukes and if they feel all will be lost then they will go down bringing the world down with them.
> But, yes, in a conventional war, Russia is crap. It is so ironic that the Western nukes were the deterrent against the Soviet conventional power and now the situation is reversed. How the mighties [Russians] have fallen!!



Putin fears a nuclear war as much as anyone else...Every country that has nuclear weapons have had them trained on Moscow since the beginning of the cold war. he knows what would happen if he pressed the button. NATO should call his bluff.


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## Wood

nang2 said:


> Seeking an alliance with NATO WITHOUT your own strong defense is giving up freedom. In another word, a country without its own strong defense but relying on NATO is more of a leech on US taxpayers. It is not independence. It is dependence.


Most NATO countries are dependent on the US. That is why US gets to be the leader. 

You don't think Ukrainians are fighting well on their own so far? 

They don't have technical parity because they are poor. That does not mean that they are a push over.. as Putin is starting to acknowledge.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503378446369579015


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## Apollon

I think whats rarely discussed here is another factor. Germany turned 180*C and now started the worldwide biggest armament program. Its defense budget now is 3rd largest worldwide only topped by USA and China. In last 70 years Germany was rather a trade and technological super power but Putins attack on Ukraine changed this overnight.

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## kingQamaR

nang2 said:


> Seeking an alliance with NATO WITHOUT your own strong defense is giving up freedom. In another word, a country without its own strong defense but relying on NATO is more of a leech on US taxpayers. It is not independence. It is dependence.



NATO, is a defensive organization, they're hardly likely to attack Russia.. Ukrainian mess is proving this to be the case 
Not sure what your point is supposed to be. We know Russia doesn't have a reasonable or responsible leadership, that's been made perfectly clear. So relying on that as a goal is patently ridiculous.

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## nang2

Wood said:


> Most NATO countries are dependent on the US. That is why US gets to be the leader.
> 
> You don't think Ukrainians are fighting well on their own so far?
> 
> They don't have technical parity because they are poor. That does not mean that they are a push over.. as Putin is starting to acknowledge.


US politicians want to be the leader. Its taxpayers are the suckers.

I don't really know anything about who fights well in this war. All we have on the Internet is propaganda of various sorts. I don't pretend to know the ground reality through my browser. I only wish for a quick ending of the conflict so civilians can get back to their own lives and don't get themselves in the cross fire. So far, Russians are incompetent in bring in quick victories. So are Ukrainians. As I mentioned before, the thing I hate more than an unjust war is a prolonged war.

Wars are ugly business and often stupid. In 1949, Chinese communists and nationalists fought intensively and both soldiers and civilians suffered great casualty. 30 years later, those nationalists were invited back to China as honored guests to help investing in China and participating in China's great economic reform. What the heck was that war fought for?!



kingQamaR said:


> NATO, is a defensive organization, they're hardly likely to attack Russia.. Ukrainian mess is proving this to be the case
> Not sure what your point is supposed to be. We know Russia doesn't have a reasonable or responsible leadership, that's been made perfectly clear. So relying on that as a goal is patently ridiculous.


The transition from defense to offense is very easy. At the moment when the opponent is so weak that it feels like a ripen fruit to pick, all you need is an excuse to begin offense. NATO has already transited in the name of peacekeeping. It isn't only when a NATO member is attacked, it authorizes an offense.



Apollon said:


> I think whats rarely discussed here is another factor. Germany turned 180*C and now started the worldwide biggest armament program. Its defense budget now is 3rd largest worldwide only topped by USA and China. In last 70 years Germany was rather a trade and technological super power but Putins attack on Ukraine changed this overnight.


It should if Europe needs its anchor to be strong.

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## Wood

nang2 said:


> US politicians want to be the leader. Its taxpayers are the suckers.
> 
> I don't really know anything about who fights well in this war. All we have on the Internet is propaganda of various sorts. I don't pretend to know the ground reality through my browser. I only wish for a quick ending of the conflict so civilians can get back to their own lives and don't get themselves in the cross fire. So far, Russians are incompetent in bring in quick victories. So are Ukrainians. As I mentioned before, the thing I hate more than an unjust war is a prolonged war.
> 
> Wars are ugly business and often stupid. In 1949, Chinese communists and nationalists fought intensively and both soldiers and civilians suffered great casualty. 30 years later, those nationalists were invited back to China as honored guests to help investing in China and participating in China's great economic reform. What the heck was that war fought for?!
> 
> 
> The transition from defense to offense is very easy. At the moment when the opponent is so weak that it feels like a ripen fruit to pick, all you need is an excuse to begin offense. NATO has already transited in the name of peacekeeping. It isn't only when a NATO member is attacked, it authorizes an offense.


US politicians want US to be a leader and the taxpayers do not? Do you really believe that the average American does not want America to be the predominant power that it is today?! I'm not sure why that is a question in your quest to make the case for Ukraine is 'naive'  

I'm also an internet pleb no different from you. But I think Ukraine is punching above its weight from the fact that a country considered to be military super power is reduced to recruiting mercenaries from Syria and Africa to fight this war. 



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503371066026217478


We should wait for such assessments from Pentagon to take them seriously. But they are certain to boost morale in the Ukrainian camp

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## Apollon

Wood said:


> US politicians want US to be a leader and the taxpayers do not? Do you really believe that the average American does not want America to be the predominant power that it is today?! I'm not sure why that is a question in your quest to make the case for Ukraine is 'naive'
> 
> I'm also an internet pleb no different from you. But I think Ukraine is punching above its weight from the fact that a country considered to be military super power is reduced to recruiting mercenaries from Syria and Africa to fight this war.



Add the fact that Ukraine capital is like only 60km away from that "super powers border".

I think thats the main thing we see now, how incredible weak Russia is. Its basicly contained by manpads and fire and forget weapons.

This is the best symbol for this:







Ukrainian farmers have taken more tanks than Stinger rockets 🤣

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## beijingwalker

Apollon said:


> Add the fact that Ukraine capital is like only 60km away from that "super powers border".
> 
> I think thats the main thing we see now, how incredible weak Russia is. Its basicly contained by manpads and fire and forget weapons.


Like the superpower's hasty fleeing from Afghanistan?

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## Wood

Germany to buy US-made F-35s to replace aging bombers


Germany says that it will replace some of its aging Tornado bomber jets with U.S.-made F-35 Lightning II aircraft capable of carrying nuclear weapons




abcnews.go.com





US taxpayer will thank Russia's invasion of Ukraine for this gift.


----------



## nang2

Wood said:


> US politicians want US to be a leader and the taxpayers do not? Do you really believe that the average American does not want America to be the predominant power that it is today?! I'm not sure why that is a question in your quest to make the case for Ukraine is 'naive'
> 
> I'm also an internet pleb no different from you. But I think Ukraine is punching above its weight from the fact that a country considered to be military super power is reduced to recruiting mercenaries from Syria and Africa to fight this war.


Taxpayers could care less. They may feel pumped when they think US is a world leader but it really has little to do with their own private lives. They care more about getting ends meet, getting their children through schools, getting enough nest eggs for comfortable retirement. Few of them even know where Ukraine is on the map.

If anyone really cares about Ukraine, he should try his best to prevent this country from getting into such a mess in the first place. If he is the leading politician, that would be his primary job. Praising their bravery AFTER getting into such a mess is cheap.

Getting back to the naivety comment, well, it is not just Ukrainians who are naive. Many people who worship democracy are in the same boat, too. It is amazing to see how US destroys one country after another through democracy.

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## Invicta

beijingwalker said:


> Like the superpower's hasty fleeing from Afghanistan?


Yes fighting 1000s of miles away from its mainland, compared to fighting in its backyard. How low can you stoop to score a cheap low IQ shot Elite Member.


----------



## beijingwalker

Invicta said:


> Yes fighting 1000s of miles away from its mainland, compared to fighting in its backyard. How low can you stoop to score a cheap low IQ shot Elite Member.


What's the difference? US always fights thousands of miles from it's home, its homeland is in Americas, when was the last time it didn't fight thousands of miles away from their home? How low can you stoop to score a cheap low IQ shot ?


----------



## nang2

Wood said:


> Germany to buy US-made F-35s to replace aging bombers
> 
> 
> Germany says that it will replace some of its aging Tornado bomber jets with U.S.-made F-35 Lightning II aircraft capable of carrying nuclear weapons
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abcnews.go.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US taxpayer will thank Russia's invasion of Ukraine for this gift.


How is that really a gift? It will boost US military industrial complex, which produces nothing that regular folks can enjoy, while siphoning off capital from those that actually do. It only boost its power to destroy when it is already the most powerful country in the world.


----------



## Foinikas

kingQamaR said:


> NATO, is a defensive organization, they're hardly likely to attack Russia.. Ukrainian mess is proving this to be the case
> Not sure what your point is supposed to be. We know Russia doesn't have a reasonable or responsible leadership, that's been made perfectly clear. So relying on that as a goal is patently ridiculous.


NATO is a what? Defensive Organization? How many countries has NATO bombed that had nothing to do with it and didn't threaten it in any way?

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## Wood

nang2 said:


> Taxpayers could care less. They may feel pumped when they think US is a world leader but it really has little to do with their own private lives. They care more about getting ends meet, getting their children through schools, getting enough nest eggs for comfortable retirement. Few of them even know where Ukraine is on the map.
> 
> If anyone really cares about Ukraine, he should try his best to prevent this country from getting into such a mess in the first place. If he is the leading politician, that would be his primary job. Praising their bravery AFTER getting into such a mess is cheap.
> 
> Getting back to the naivety comment, well, it is not just Ukrainians who are naive. Many people who worship democracy are in the same boat, too. It is amazing to see how US destroys one country after another through democracy.


US Taxpayer is a direct beneficiary of US leadership in the established global order. I don't feel like making an argument for this obvious case 

It is also incorrect to say that Ukrainian politicians and their intelligentsia are naive for wanting to be a free democratic society. Please consider that more people from authoritarian countries have moved to liberal democracies than vice versa when politics is the reason for immigration. 



nang2 said:


> How is that really a gift? It will boost US military industrial complex, which produces nothing that regular folks can enjoy, while siphoning off capital from those that actually do. It only boost its power to destroy when it is already the most powerful country in the world.


F 35 is built mostly by American tax payers. Every direct job from this order will also promote indirect employment.

Those who criticize military industry complex should realize that its clout in the US congress is not just because of campaign contributions. The F35 production chain is in fact distributed across many US states employing a lot of Americans throughout the country.


----------



## nang2

Wood said:


> US Taxpayer is a direct beneficiary of US leadership in the established global order. I don't feel like making an argument for this obvious case
> 
> It is also incorrect to say that Ukrainian politicians and their intelligentsia are naive for wanting to be a free democratic society. Please consider that more people from authoritarian countries have moved to liberal democracies than vice versa when politics is the reason for immigration.


But it is just some breadcrumbs falling off the large pie those politicians get. Those who think that is sufficient to justify US overseas intervention are double suckers. I remember when US decided to invade Iraq, there was a guy in San Francisco hanging a banner on his apartment window that said "I want cheap oil!". Well, guess which direction the oil price went after that.

I don't think Ukrainian politicians want a free democratic country. They want their power and they use whatever ideology to boost their power and position. It is their primary instinct.

"Mistaken ideas always end in bloodshed, but in every case it is someone else's blood." -- Albert Camus​


Wood said:


> F 35 is built mostly by American tax payers. Every direct job from this order will also promote indirect employment.
> 
> Those who criticize military industry complex should realize that its clout in the US congress is not just because of campaign contributions. The F35 production chain is in fact distributed across many US states employing a lot of Americans throughout the country.


No country becomes rich by building weapons. Individuals could, however, e.g. Nobel.


----------



## Gripen9

RescueRanger said:


> The loss to the civil infrastructure in Ukraine is running into the Billions.


All that frozen Russian assets will pay for rebuilding (if US has any say )

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## mshan44

*When Indians take Bollywood too seriousily*

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Apollon

Interesting fact from German BND, they say Russia logistics are so bad, they cant move further than 140km from their border at best conditions and this will get worse in next days and weeks. They lack trucks, gas, fuel.


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## Wood

nang2 said:


> But it is just some breadcrumbs falling off the large pie those politicians get. Those who think that is sufficient to justify US overseas intervention are double suckers. I remember when US decided to invade Iraq, there was a guy in San Francisco hanging a banner on his apartment window that said "I want cheap oil!". Well, guess which direction the oil price went after that.
> 
> I don't think Ukrainian politicians want a free democratic country. They want their power and they use whatever ideology to boost their power and position. It is their primary instinct.
> 
> "Mistaken ideas always end in bloodshed, but in every case it is someone else's blood." -- Albert Camus​


Now that there is not much rope to keep up the Ukraine is 'naive' narrative, you've resorted to big and bold lettered quotes and straw man arguments about Iraqi oil. It has nothing to do with Putin's invasion  

US, like all major powers before it and all that will come after it - will intervene in international affairs to maintain world order. Some of them may be unjustified, that is not in question. But to make a blanket claim that Ukrainian politicians do not want their country to be free and are just stupid/naive for wanting to keep their way of life is just a callous opinion that suits your preconceived biases. Your claims remain unsubstantiated and meritless.

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## Apollon

beijingwalker said:


> Like the superpower's hasty fleeing from Afghanistan?



Russia fled Afghanistan before i think in late 80th. Difference now is, that Putin suffers in one week heavier casualties in Ukraine than Breshniev in 7 years afghanistan.

That said i respect Chinas intelligent approach to not help Russia in its war.


----------



## Oublious

lets play....  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503065795022278657

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## beijingwalker

Apollon said:


> Russia fled Afghanistan before i think in late 80th. Difference now is, that Putin suffers in one week heavier casualties in Ukraine than Breshniev in 7 years afghanistan.
> 
> That said i respect Chinas intelligent approach to not help Russia in its war.


If Russia is really this weak, why Nato poops their pants at the very thought of military involvement?

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> NATO is a what? Defensive Organization? How many countries has NATO bombed that had nothing to do with it and didn't threaten it in any way?



Let me answer your question: none. Zero. 

You are free to name a country that NATO bombed.



beijingwalker said:


> If Russia is really this weak, why Nato poops their pants at the very thought of military involvement?



We stop Russia with mere delivery of manpads and stingers.

Russia has no working military its only assets are nuclear weapons and we try to avoid a nuclear war. Conventional the russian military is shown as dead. The question is, why is it dead? Corruption?


----------



## beijingwalker

Apollon said:


> Let me answer your question: none. Zero.
> 
> You are free to name a country that NATO bombed.


Actually when it comes to small and weak countries, Nato can never control its fury. But Russia is a different story.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATo_Operations


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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503424765448671239


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## Apollon

beijingwalker said:


> Actually when it comes to small and weak countries, Nato can never control its fury. But Russia is a different story.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATo_Operations



Seeing how weak russias military is, is also interesting for China regarding future influence in siberia.


----------



## beijingwalker

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503424765448671239


If so is it considered a direct attack on Nato?


----------



## Gripen9

RescueRanger said:


> Here we go:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502768327214698503


Cannon fodder.

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## beijingwalker

Apollon said:


> Seeing how weak russias military is,


If Russia is really this weak, why Nato poops their pants at the very thought of military involvement?

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## Kraetoz

beijingwalker said:


> If Russia is really this weak, why Nato poops their pants at the very thought of military involvement?



Russia weak.
US and NATO Stronk.

But let us not give Zelensky a no fly zone, we will fight Russia till the last Ukrainian.


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## Elias MC

beijingwalker said:


> If so is it considered a direct attack on Nato?



The strange thing about all this is that a few days ago a Tupolev Tu-141 drone crashed in Zagreb, Croatia, passed by several NATO members without being shot down, where is the NATO air defense?

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## beijingwalker

Spain asks China to use influence to end Russia’s war against Ukraine​








Spain asks China to use influence to end Russia’s war against Ukraine


* * *




www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503425825689026566


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## Apollon

Kraetoz said:


> Russia weak.
> US and NATO Stronk.
> 
> But let us not give Zelensky a no fly zone, we will fight Russia till the last Ukrainian.



With all due respect, its not NATO tanks that ukrainian farmers snatch en mass at moment.


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## Ich

Apollon said:


> Interesting fact from German BND, they say Russia logistics are so bad, they cant move further than 140km from their border at best conditions and this will get worse in next days and weeks. They lack trucks, gas, fuel.



Hahaha "BND" ^^

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## beijingwalker

Apollon said:


> With all due respect, its not NATO tanks that ukrainian farmers snatch en mass at moment.


This war shows how weak Nato is, a complete paper tiger.


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Let me answer your question: none. Zero.
> 
> You are free to name a country that NATO bombed.


You want one? Serbia.

Two? Iraq. 

Three? Afghanistan.

Four? Libya.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503379439475957763


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## beijingwalker

Foinikas said:


> You want one? Serbia.
> 
> Two? Iraq.
> 
> Three? Afghanistan.
> 
> Four? Libya.


Nato is very good at bullying weak nations. but Russia makes them poop their pants.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503429355355127817


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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> You want one? Serbia.
> 
> Two? Iraq.
> 
> Three? Afghanistan.
> 
> Four? Libya.



Serbia committed genocide and threatend NATO completly justified.

NATO was not involved in Iraq.

Afghanistan attacked USA at 911 and this caused the alliance for first time in its existence to react on an attack of a NATO member.

NATO was not involved in Libya. 

You appear to mistake USA with NATO.


----------



## Wood

Interesting video from Caspian report

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## beijingwalker

Apollon said:


> Serbia committed genocide and threatend NATO completly justified.


Isn't Russia doing the same based on western report? what stopped Nato from getting involved?

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## Apollon

Interesting tank battle that ends when the russian tank gets cooked by the ukrainians


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## beijingwalker

The more western propaganists try to cry how weak Russia is, the more fear they show to Russia

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## Apollon

beijingwalker said:


> Isn't Russia doing the same based on western report? what stopped Nato from getting involved?



We are involved. Each day we flood thousands of stingers, manpads and other weapons to Ukraine. Its the main reason why russia suffers so heavy losses. Beside that we give the ukrainians constant intelligence data. 

Plus add the fact we destroyed russias economy.


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Serbia committed genocide and threatend NATO completly justified.


If you believe that,you're ignorant or naive. Also,Serbia and Montenegro could not threaten NATO at all. In any case,all wars in Yugoslavia were an internal matter. 



Apollon said:


> NATO was not involved in Iraq.


Officially as NATO,no. But the majority of countries that invaded Iraq both in 1991 war and 2003,were NATO members.



Apollon said:


> Afghanistan attacked USA at 911 and this caused the alliance for first time in its existence to react on an attack of a NATO member.


And they bombed hospitals,schools,wedding parties and civilians and nobody imposed sanctions on them and nobody grabbed their money and nobody procesuted them to the ICTY.



Apollon said:


> NATO was not involved in Libya.


Wake up. 









Apollon said:


> We are involved. Each day we flood thousands of stingers, manpads and other weapons to Ukraine. Its the main reason why russia suffers so heavy losses. Beside that we give the ukrainians constant intelligence data.
> 
> Plus add the fact we destroyed russias economy.


Why are you so happy? Oh yes. You "hate Putin",you're not Orthodox and you believe in real "democracy". Olo malakies...

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## kingQamaR

Foinikas said:


> NATO is a what? Defensive Organization? How many countries has NATO bombed that had nothing to do with it and didn't threaten it in any way?



Nato has done good as much as people have negative thoughts on them. They forget it was nato nato stopped Serbian bloodshed in Bosnia and Kosovo:Albanians. Worst ethnic cleansing since Hitler, and saving the region from being destabilised by thousands of refugees.

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## Apollon

News comes in EU now sanctions Abramowitsch as well. All his assets get taken and he us banned from entering europe.

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## beijingwalker

Apollon said:


> We are involved. Each day we flood thousands of stingers, manpads and other weapons to Ukraine. Its the main reason why russia suffers so heavy losses. Beside that we give the ukrainians constant intelligence data.
> 
> Plus add the fact we destroyed russias economy.


LOL, You call this involvement? China also sells weapons to other countries, it's business, is Nato an arms sale company? You coward.


----------



## Vergennes

beijingwalker said:


> The more western propaganists try to cry how weak Russia is, the more fear they show to Russia



The myth the Russians have made around their armed forces is just fading away in front of us and calling "propaganda" the fact their army is being trashed left and right won't hide their incompetence. Their armed forces are trash,their economy is trash. Agitating the nuclear threat everydays is just inferiority complex.

Some were so fooled by Russia's propaganda thought they could invade whole western Europe in 48hours when they can't fight a proper war against a country bordering Russia. Reaching Tallinn would have been a miracle,let alone the rest.

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> If you believe that,you're ignorant or naive. Also,Serbia and Montenegro could not threaten NATO at all. In any case,all wars in Yugoslavia were an internal matter.
> 
> 
> Officially as NATO,no. But the majority of countries that invaded Iraq both in 1991 war and 2003,were NATO members.
> 
> 
> And they bombed hospitals,schools,wedding parties and civilians and nobody imposed sanctions on them and nobody grabbed their money and nobody procesuted them to the ICTY.
> 
> 
> Wake up.
> 
> View attachment 824083
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you so happy? Oh yes. You "hate Putin",you're not Orthodox and you believe in real "democracy". Olo malakies...




Putin is not orthodox either. He is a facist through and through. 

On a sidenote if you would be orthodox you would know that patriarchs of Constantinople, Alexandria condemn Russias crimes against Ukraine and also distance from moscows position.


----------



## beijingwalker

Vergennes said:


> The myth the Russians have made around their armed forces is just fading away in front of us and calling "propaganda" the fact their army is being trashed left and right won't hide their incompetence. Their armed forces are trash,their economy is trash.
> 
> Some were so fooled by Russia's propaganda thought they could invade whole western Europe in 48hours when they can't fight a proper war against a country bordering Russia. Reaching Tallinn would have been a miracle,let alone the rest.


If so why the west dares not to get involved? you guys can only fool yourself.


----------



## Apollon

beijingwalker said:


> LOL, You call this involvement? China also sells weapons to other countries, it's business, is Nato an arms sale company? You coward.



We dont sell it, they get it for free, evry day thousands of stingers.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503371324584083456


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Interesting tank battle that ends when the russian tank gets cooked by the ukrainians


That's not a tank. That's a BMP-2. It's an IFV. And from that distance it can't resist multiple shots from a 30mm gun. It must be a 30mm gun on the Ukrainian vehicle.


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503432605819146241

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503431829247963152


----------



## beijingwalker

Apollon said:


> We dont sell it, they get it for free, evry day thousands of stingers.


Is Nato a supply company? what's the difference between Serbia and Russia? why the different policies?

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503413793107365894


The Catholics learned their lesson and separated state from religion via Vatican. But the Orthodoxy does not seem to have the same maturity


----------



## Foinikas

kingQamaR said:


> Nato has done good as much as people have negative thoughts on them. They forget it was nato nato stopped Serbian bloodshed in Bosnia and Kosovo:Albanians. Worst ethnic cleansing since Hitler, and saving the region from being destabilised by thousands of refugees.


If we start this conversation here again,we'll have a flame war. The idiocy of you people who blame the Americans and the West day and night and suddenly believe their propaganda when it comes to Bosnia and Kosovo....

Wake up. Izetbegovic and the Americans used the same tactics to fool the public opinion back then as they do now. They did it in Syria,they do it in Ukraine.

Tell me something,why is it ok for Kosovar Albanians to wage guerilla warfare and attack Serbian police and Army and then declare independence and be given their own country...and when the DNR and LNR declare independence,they are fought by the West? Talk about lies and double standards.

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## beijingwalker

If Nato is all that powerful , why it needs to beg China to mediate?

A 'cold-blooded' alliance? China could be a pivotal force in Russia's war against Ukraine​








A 'cold-blooded' alliance? China could be a pivotal force in Russia's war against Ukraine


Ahead of a high-stakes U.S.-China meeting, the Biden administration warned Beijing not to help Russia evade sanctions for its invasion of Ukraine.



www.usatoday.com


----------



## Apollon

Another Mi-24 shot down






That russia still uses helicopters makes no sense. Its obvious those things are death traps with that amount of manpads around there


----------



## beijingwalker

Apollon said:


> Another Mi-24 shot down
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That russia still uses helicopters makes no sense. Its obvious those things are death traps with that amount of manpads around there


Only fools believe those propaganda, Nato has exhausted all their resources, begging could be the last resort they can turn to.


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Putin is not orthodox either. He is a facist through and through.
> 
> On a sidenote if you would be orthodox you would know that patriarchs of Constantinople, Alexandria condemn Russias crimes against Ukraine and also distance from moscows position.


Fascism fascism! All I here is fascism! But blocking Russian media from Facebook,Twitter and other sites and allowing comments that are anti-Russian,even if they talk about violence against Russians,that's ok? That's not fascism? That's not hypocrisy? 

*Here,democrat. Enjoy your democracy. *

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> If we start this conversation here again,we'll have a flame war. The idiocy of you people who blame the Americans and the West day and night and suddenly believe their propaganda when it comes to Bosnia and Kosovo....
> 
> Wake up. Izetbegovic and the Americans used the same tactics to fool the public opinion back then as they do now. They did it in Syria,they do it in Ukraine.
> 
> Tell me something,why is it ok for Kosovar Albanians to wage guerilla warfare and attack Serbian police and Army and then declare independence and be given their own country...and when the DNR and LNR declare independence,they are fought by the West? Talk about lies and double standards.



There are no lies and double standards, only interests. Fact is, Serbia interests nobody. Welcome to hard reality of diplomacy. I think you are much older than me, sad that i have to explain this to you.


----------



## bobo6661

beijingwalker said:


> LOL, You call this involvement? China also sells weapons to other countries, it's business, is Nato an arms sale company? You coward.


Yee we should join but don't blame us if some nukes or radioactive clouds go to china... Like wtf people think that a nuclear war between NATO russia does not have anything to do with them 😂 Like the radiation will stay in Europe Usa only ...

And russia is strong not as strong like we all where scared that they will roll over Europe in a week or two, but expect nukes they dont have anything impresive.


----------



## beijingwalker

Now what Nato can do to stop Russians ? Nothing, bad mouthing and disinformation won't stop armies on the ground.



bobo6661 said:


> Yee we should join but don't blame us if some nukes or radioactive clouds go to china... Like wtf people think that a nuclear war between NATO russia does not have anything to do with them 😂 Like the radiation will stay in Europe Usa only ...
> 
> And russia is strong not as strong like we all where scared that they will roll over Europe in a week or two, but expect nukes they dont have anything impresive.


Thank you for admitting fear factor, which is hard to swallow by some guys here.

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> There are no lies and double standards, only interests. Fact is, Serbia interests nobody. Welcome to hard reality of diplomacy. I think you are much older than me, sad that i have to explain this to you.


Then stfu about "evil Russians" and "dictator Putin"? If you consider NATO to be a benevolent organization after the Cold War,then you're naive. If you are aware of what they've done to Serbia,Afghanistan,Iraq and Libya and you still love it,then what is wrong with you?

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Fascism fascism! All I here is fascism! But blocking Russian media from Facebook,Twitter and other sites and allowing comments that are anti-Russian,even if they talk about violence against Russians,that's ok? That's not fascism? That's not hypocrisy?
> 
> *Here,democrat. Enjoy your democracy. *
> 
> 
> View attachment 824084



We always had russian apologists in Greece.

The only thing that protects Greece is NATO. Only because NATO we have over 70 years peace in Europe. 

Have you ever been to russia? Do you understand why people run away from there? I have news for you, its not some heavenly utopia. Its a grey and depressing state.

Russia attacked a country in Europe and now has to accpet the consequences.


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## bobo6661

beijingwalker said:


> Thank you for admitting fear factor, which is hard to swallow by some guys here.


Im not realy scared im so close to the front seat that i will only see a big mushroom the people that stay behind need to be scared

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Then stfu about "evil Russians" and "dictator Putin"? If you consider NATO to be a benevolent organization after the Cold War,then you're naive. If you are aware of what they've done to Serbia,Afghanistan,Iraq and Libya and you still love it,then what is wrong with you?



I care about one only: myself, my country and by extense Europe. For us, NATO has done very good. I dont care about Serbia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iraq or Libya.


----------



## beijingwalker

bobo6661 said:


> Im not realy scared im so close to the front seat that i will only see a big mushroom the people that stay behind need to be scared


It's a right decision not to get involved, it's just some guys here trying so hard to portrait that Russia is a weak pushover which I find it's funny and ridiculous.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503434654992510986

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## Apollon

S-34 shot down and pilot arrested


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> We always had russian apologists in Greece.
> 
> The only thing that protects Greece is NATO. Only because NATO we have over 70 years peace in Europe.
> 
> Have you ever been to russia? Do you understand why people run away from there? I have news for you, its not some heavenly utopia. Its a grey and depressing state.
> 
> Russia attacked a country in Europe and now has to accpet the consequences.


And where was NATO when Turkey was invading Cyprus? Where was NATO to impose sanctions to Turkey for Cyprus? Where was NATO for 40 years to support the Greek Cypriots? 

You have to see this objectively: NATO surrounded Russia the last 20 years. Now they wanted Ukraine too. The ones who pushed Russia to invade were the Americans and British.

Did the West give a chance to peace? For 20 years they were obsessed with surrounding Russia with bases. Bases here and there. They made them re-arm themselves and spend trillions of dollars to weapons. 

Before this war started,France and Germany wanted to find a diplomatic solution,But the Americans and the British insisted on sanctions and giving weapons to Ukraine. 

Ukraine isn't any country in Europe. It isn't Sweden,it isn't Germany,it isn't Austria,it isn't Poland,it isn't even Slovakia.

Ukraine has always been part of Russian history and territory.

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## zartosht

Pehalwan Pintu Dedha said:


> Why don't you give your fifth generation stealth fighter Qaher to Russia as US & NATO is also gifting its weapons to Ukraine. Seeing performance of it in the battle field may help you to get more potential customer or is it not for export ?



Why dont you learn how to use a toilet first, then start teaching us about plane making.... Maybe when indias population reaches 3 billion, the accumulation of balls might.... mighttt be enough to actually talk back to your western white masters for once.. we will eagerly await that day.

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Haha Haha:
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## beijingwalker

A lot of fake news and disinformation even directly from the White House and US state departement

Russia, China deny US claims of military assistance​








US warns China on support for Russia’s war in Ukraine


Washington has warned ‘it won’t stand by’ if Beijing aids Russia’s war in Ukraine.




www.afr.com





U.S. told NATO, Asia allies that China willing to supply arms to Russia -U.S. official​








U.S. told NATO, Asia allies China willing to supply arms to Russia -U.S. official


The United States told allies in NATO and several Asian countries on Monday that China had signaled willingness to provide military and economic aid to Russia, at Moscow's request, to support its war in Ukraine, a U.S. official said as top U.S. and Chinese officials met in Rome.




www.reuters.com


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503436783526322186

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503437308523167752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503437655392014348

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503438175443820548

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> I care about one only: myself, my country and by extense Europe. For us, NATO has done very good. I dont care about Serbia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iraq or Libya.


And if I tell you that the West wants to destroy the largest Orthodox country in the world? The one Orthodox country that resists political correctness and globalisation? You wouldn't care. You don't believe. You don't care about it. 

But tell me,if Kosovo has the right to declare independence,then why can't DNR and LNR do the same? If NATO can attack Libya to change the government,why can't Russia do the same?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503439362733838337

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## zartosht

The americans have literally banned even Russian piano players... 

yet this NASA rat stuck on the space station has no problem coming back to earth on a russian rocket... russians should leave this peice of shit in space, and let the ukies bring him home.





__





US astronaut to ride Russian spacecraft home during tensions






www.msn.com


----------



## oberschlesier

beijingwalker said:


> It's a right decision not to get involved, it's just some guys here trying so hard to portrait that Russia is a weak pushover which I find it's funny and ridiculous.


They are not doing very well, are they ?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503365400939147273


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## nang2

Wood said:


> Now that there is not much rope to keep up the Ukraine is 'naive' narrative, you've resorted to big and bold lettered quotes and straw man arguments about Iraqi oil. It has nothing to do with Putin's invasion
> 
> US, like all major powers before it and all that will come after it - will intervene in international affairs to maintain world order. Some of them may be unjustified, that is not in question. But to make a blanket claim that Ukrainian politicians do not want their country to be free and are just stupid/naive for wanting to keep their way of life is just a callous opinion that suits your preconceived biases. Your claims remain unsubstantiated and meritless.


The problem is that you define Ukrainian way of life from what you read from Ukrainian politicians supported by the west. How much do you know about the Ukrainian way of life from Russia supported Ukrainian politicians? The reality is that Ukraine is a mixed bag caused by all the foreign imperial influence throughout the history. When you see some Ukrainian politicians boost one type of way of life and oppress different types, you would know they are not for a free Ukraine. They want a version of Ukraine that they like. A politician who truly wants a free Ukraine would let people live the way they choose, instead of the way the politician dictates. Now, tell me one Ukrainian politician that supports this idea and let's count how many there are, before you conclude that my claim is unsubstantiated.

That should give you an idea about "mistaken ideas always end in bloodshed".

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## bobo6661

Foinikas said:


> Ukraine has always been part of Russian history and territory.


thats a bad lie it was polish to for a long time  and it was independent then polish then russian and now it independent again it's not faking russia it's like saying Greece should not exist it belongs to Turks ...

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## F-22Raptor

In the late fall of 2021, as Russian forces massed at the border of Ukraine, U.S. lawmakers pressed the Pentagon on why the Biden administration wasn’t sending Stinger antiaircraft missiles to help Kyiv. The option wasn’t available, they were told, because the weapons in the U.S. inventory contained classified equipment.

Months later, the Pentagon came up with a solution to the problem. By removing several screws, the military was able to withdraw a sensitive item from the missile’s hand-held launcher, opening the way to sending the weapons from U.S. stocks.









WSJ News Exclusive | How Removing a Handful of Screws Allowed the Pentagon to Deliver Stingers to Ukraine


Taking out classified gear enabled the military to send the antiaircraft missiles after the Russian invasion began.




www.wsj.com






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503159742230941696


----------



## beijingwalker

oberschlesier said:


> They are not doing very well, are they ?


It depends on how they like to operate, deep inside they still think Ukraine is part of their common culture and origin, they didn't really unleash their full power in this war, if they did unrestrained, indiscrimate shelling and bombing like US did in Serbia and Syria, situation could be totally different.


----------



## oberschlesier

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503439362733838337


Yeah, using expensive cruise missiles to destroy a training camp is a bit exaggerated. Why not just bomb it ?


----------



## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> And where was NATO when Turkey was invading Cyprus? Where was NATO to impose sanctions to Turkey for Cyprus? Where was NATO for 40 years to support the Greek Cypriots?
> 
> You have to see this objectively: NATO surrounded Russia the last 20 years. Now they wanted Ukraine too. The ones who pushed Russia to invade were the Americans and British.
> 
> Did the West give a chance to peace? For 20 years they were obsessed with surrounding Russia with bases. Bases here and there. They made them re-arm themselves and spend trillions of dollars to weapons.
> 
> Before this war started,France and Germany wanted to find a diplomatic solution,But the Americans and the British insisted on sanctions and giving weapons to Ukraine.
> 
> Ukraine isn't any country in Europe. It isn't Sweden,it isn't Germany,it isn't Austria,it isn't Poland,it isn't even Slovakia.
> 
> Ukraine has always been part of Russian history and territory.



Nato did not soround Russia. Russia opressed all its countries around for decades. Ukraine is one of the nations that suffered most from russian agression. Nations join NATO to be secure by russian agression. 

If Ukraine would have joined NATO in 2008, it would be save today. 

And you know who decides Ukraines future? Ukrainains, not russians and certainly not we greeks.

The way the ukrainians give the russians hell shows they indeed play an important part for russian history, a massive defeat in russian history. 

Slava Ukraine!


----------



## nang2

Apollon said:


> And you know who decides Ukraines future? Ukrainains, not russians and certainly not we greeks.


That is all ideal but not real. Guess who decided Korean future? Certainly not Koreans. You only get to decide your own future when you are strong.


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## kingQamaR

beijingwalker said:


> If so why the west dares not to get involved? you guys can only fool yourself.



NATO exists to protect NATO countries. Ukraine is not a member.

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## Foinikas

bobo6661 said:


> thats a bad lie it was polish to for a long time  and it was independent then polish then russian and now it independent again it's not faking russia it's like saying Greece should not exist it belongs to Turks ...


Kievan Rus is the craddle of Russian civilization. The areas around it,the whole place,it was Russian. Mongols came,Tatars came,Poles came,but it remained Russian. Then Lenin made the SSR of Ukraine.

Throughout the centuries,the foreigners managed to create a seperate identity for the Rus' living there. They came up with the name Ukraina,they deleted the names Malorossia,Novorossia etc.


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## oberschlesier

beijingwalker said:


> It depends on how they like to operate, deep inside they still think Ukraine is part of their common culture and origin, they didn't really unleash their full power in this war, if they did unrestrained, indiscrimate shelling and bombing like US did in Serbia and Syria, situation could be totally different.


So, too convice them, they are the common culture, the Russias invaded them with tanks ? I just think, this will cause the reverse effect.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503380306174357511

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## beijingwalker

oberschlesier said:


> So, too convice them, they are the common culture, the Russias invaded them with tanks ? I just think, this will cause the reverse effect.


they were as one country for 300 years, Russians don't hate Ukrainians, it's nothing like how they fought Nazi Germany.


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## kingQamaR

beijingwalker said:


> LOL, You call this involvement? China also sells weapons to other countries, it's business, is Nato an arms sale company? You coward.



China have seen the financial sanctions put in place and as China loves money they will step back from Putin

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## beijingwalker

kingQamaR said:


> NATO exists to protect NATO countries. Ukraine is not a member.


Then why Nato is so worked up?


----------



## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> And if I tell you that the West wants to destroy the largest Orthodox country in the world? The one Orthodox country that resists political correctness and globalisation? You wouldn't care. You don't believe. You don't care about it.
> 
> But tell me,if Kosovo has the right to declare independence,then why can't DNR and LNR do the same? If NATO can attack Libya to change the government,why can't Russia do the same?




Im more than willing to help sending Russia to hell. Its not just that i dont care buddy, i actively support and fully stand for it. Im happy to see how russia is crushed economicly and on the war front as well. 

I have friends in Ukraine and their fight against the russians is inspireing. Russia will never rule Ukraine. Its hated so much there, that they will suffer extreme losses evry day from partisan attacks. There are so many stingers and manpads in ukraine now, the nation cant be stabilized by russia.


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## beijingwalker

kingQamaR said:


> China have seen the financial sanctions put in place and as China loves money they will step back from Putin


Trump started trade war with China over 4 years ago and he claimed : trade war is good and it's easy to win. Do you want to know the result?

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## bobo6661

Foinikas said:


> Kievan Rus is the craddle of Russian civilization. The areas around it,the whole place,it was Russian. Mongols came,Tatars came,Poles came,but it remained Russian. Then Lenin made the SSR of Ukraine.
> 
> Throughout the centuries,the foreigners managed to create a seperate identity for the Rus' living there. They came up with the name Ukraina,they deleted the names Malorossia,Novorossia etc.


man just stop your russian propaganda its realy bad ...









History of Ukraine - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




Novorossia is just , is a historical term of the russian empire denoting a region north of the Black Sea nothing more no culture no anything. now they trying to print it as something special so they can grab land nothing more

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## gambit

beijingwalker said:


> A lot of fake news and disinformation even directly from the White House and US state departement
> 
> Russia, China deny US claims of military assistance​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US warns China on support for Russia’s war in Ukraine
> 
> 
> Washington has warned ‘it won’t stand by’ if Beijing aids Russia’s war in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.afr.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. told NATO, Asia allies that China willing to supply arms to Russia -U.S. official​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. told NATO, Asia allies China willing to supply arms to Russia -U.S. official
> 
> 
> The United States told allies in NATO and several Asian countries on Monday that China had signaled willingness to provide military and economic aid to Russia, at Moscow's request, to support its war in Ukraine, a U.S. official said as top U.S. and Chinese officials met in Rome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com


Am going to give a closer to home analogy of the Russia-China relationship.

*Situation 1:*
I drive you to work.​I use your money to buy grocery for you.​
*Situation 2:*
I give you the key to my car.​I buy you grocery with my money.​​In *Situation 1*, there is zero to nearly zero costs to me. We could be working in the same building or I may just drive a few minutes out of my way. And when the time come to buy food, I am using your money, it may take a few extra minutes, but it is still your money.

But in *Situation 2*, I would be out of my car for a while, maybe even the whole day. You may pay me back with a full tank of gas, but I still do not have my car for as long as you have it. And when the time come to buy food, it is out of my budget, you may pay me back later, but it is an actual burden on me until that time of repayment.

What China is doing for Russia all this time is essentially *Situation 1* with the credit card processing, buying Russian oil, etc. But if it is true that Russia asked China for economic and military assistance, that would be cutting into China's wallet, today and tomorrow and until who knows when Russia can pay back. Considering that Russia is using Syrian fighters, what happened to the rest of the Russian Army? What if Russia even asked for Chinese troops which would mean China have to budget out Chinese blood to help Russia? Why not? The PLA have no combat experience so this would be a valuable learning experience prior to invading Taiwan. Chinese troops dying in Ukraine would definitely elevate Taiwan's morale.

China is sloooooow walking aawaaay from Russia. Neither country can admit to this story because that would be an acknowledgement to the world that Russia truly failed and that China gambled wrong. So all China can do is continuing with *Situation 1* as Xi seethe with anger behind closed doors because the Russian military failed him.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Apollon

bobo6661 said:


> man just stop your russian propaganda its realy bad ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> History of Ukraine - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Novorossia is just , is a historical term of the russian empire denoting a region north of the Black Sea nothing more no culture no anything




I must apology for him, not all greeks are like him.

We have a small group who believe that Russia is some orthodox saint, when infact its just a facist hellhole and always was. I know what crimes Russia did. Poland, Ukraine all suffered from them. 

I have deep respect for you guys.


----------



## beijingwalker

gambit said:


> Am going to give a closer to home analogy of the Russia-China relationship.
> 
> *Situation 1:*
> I drive you to work.​I use your money to buy grocery for you.​
> *Situation 2:*
> I give you the key to my car.​I buy you grocery with my money.​​In *Situation 1*, there is zero to nearly zero costs to me. We could be working in the same building or I may just drive a few minutes out of my way. And when the time come to buy food, I am using your money, it may take a few extra minutes, but it is still your money.
> 
> But in *Situation 2*, I would be out of my car for a while, maybe even the whole day. You may pay me back with a full tank of gas, but I still do not have my car for as long as you have it. And when the time come to buy food, it is out of my budget, you may pay me back later, but it is an actual burden on me until that time of repayment.
> 
> What China is doing for Russia all this time is essentially *Situation 1* with the credit card processing, buying Russian oil, etc. But if it is true that Russia asked China for economic and military assistance, that would be cutting into China's wallet, today and tomorrow and until who knows when Russia can pay back. Considering that Russia is using Syrian fighters, what happened to the rest of the Russian Army? What if Russia even asked for Chinese troops which would mean China have to budget out Chinese blood to help Russia? Why not? The PLA have no combat experience so this would be a valuable learning experience prior to invading Taiwan. Chinese troops dying in Ukraine would definitely elevate Taiwan's morale.
> 
> China is sloooooow walking aawaaay from Russia. Neither country can admit to this story because that would be an acknowledgement to the world that Russia truly failed and that China gambled wrong. So all China can do is continuing with *Situation 1* as Xi seethe with anger behind closed doors because the Russian military failed him.


And you think China and Russia will follow your instruction map?


----------



## gambit

beijingwalker said:


> And you think China and Russia will follow your instruction map?


Yes. Xi is following my orders.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## oberschlesier

beijingwalker said:


> they were as one country for 300 years, Russians don't hate Ukrainians, it's nothing like how they fought Nazi Germany.


The eastern part, yes. western part no.
It already takes almost 3 weeks in mostly russian speaking eastern part of Ukraine to conviced them they are one culture. I would rather say, speaking russian does not make you russian.


----------



## Wood

nang2 said:


> The problem is that you define Ukrainian way of life from what you read from Ukrainian politicians supported by the west. How much do you know about the Ukrainian way of life from Russia supported Ukrainian politicians? The reality is that Ukraine is a mixed bag caused by all the foreign imperial influence throughout the history. When you see some Ukrainian politicians boost one type of way of life and oppress different types, you would know they are not for a free Ukraine. They want a version of Ukraine that they like. A politician who truly wants a free Ukraine would let people live the way they choose, instead of the way the politician dictates. Now, tell me one Ukrainian politician that supports this idea and let's count how many there are, before you conclude that my claim is unsubstantiated.
> 
> That should give you an idea about "mistaken ideas always end in bloodshed".


I've worked as an external consultant for a big Ukrainian corporation, travelled to Kyiv several times and have stayed there months every time. There are plenty of Ukrainian people in my social circle from different ethnic affiliations within the country. Even my realtor is a Ukrainian and there is still some Ukrainian currency left in my wallet from my last travel there before COVID. What about you?  

But I'll not claim that any of this is basis for me to say that I know anything about Ukrainian way of life. The majority sentiment in Ukraine is to not be a Belarus and instead be in EU. This should be apparent to anyone who is not myopic to the resistance from the local population against this Russian invasion. The pro Russian - Putin loving - Ukrainians that I know are crying in Whatsapp because some family are still in Kyiv and do not want to leave with refugees. Why do they want to stay back and resist? Even these Putin loving people don't like Putin so much anymore.

Politicians have let Ukrainians free to choose. The majority have chosen EU. Now, even the eastern part is mostly disgusted with the invaders. This is the reality. You can live in your made up fantasy. Don't expect the rest of us to join you


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Nato did not soround Russia.










Then what is that? 



Apollon said:


> Russia opressed all its countries around for decades.


That was the Soviet Union. With the collapse of the Soviet Union,there was no need for NATO to expand.



Apollon said:


> Nations join NATO to be secure by russian agression.


Imaginary aggression. Most of them joined NATO and the European Union to get money.



Apollon said:


> If Ukraine would have joined NATO in 2008, it would be save today.


No,we would have had a war in 2008. You don't remember the war in Georgia in 2008,do you? 



Apollon said:


> And you know who decides Ukraines future? Ukrainains, not russians and certainly not we greeks.


And they did. They voted for Yanukovich and the ultranationalists and pro-Western parties started the Euromaidan protests and riots and took over the government. They kicked out the legally elected government of the country. 




Apollon said:


> Slava Ukraine!



I thought you're not a fascist?  






Tell me again how you like Ukrainian Nazi-collaborationists

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503445150797860866


----------



## bobo6661

Foinikas said:


> Tell me again how you like Ukrainian Nazi-collaborationists


Slava Ukraine! Man that word means glory for ukraine ...

AND tell me about russian collaborationists russians were the biggest collaborators during ww2









Collaboration in the German-occupied Soviet Union - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





and








Golden Dawn (Greece) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




we should invide Greece now ?


----------



## gambit

Wood said:


> I've worked as an external consultant for a big Ukrainian corporation, travelled to Kyiv several times and have stayed there months every time. There are plenty of Ukrainian people in my social circle from different ethnic affiliations within the country. Even my realtor is a Ukrainian and there is still some Ukrainian currency left in my wallet from my last travel there before COVID. What about you?
> 
> But I'll not claim that any of this is basis for me to say that I know anything about Ukrainian way of life. The majority sentiment in Ukraine is to not be a Belarus and instead be in EU. This should be apparent to anyone who is not myopic to the resistance from the local population against this Russian invasion. The pro Russian - Putin loving - Ukrainians that I know are crying in Whatsapp because some family are still in Kyiv and do not want to leave with refugees. Why do they want to stay back and resist? Even these Putin loving people don't like Putin so much anymore.
> 
> Politicians have let Ukrainians free to choose. The majority have chosen EU. Now, even the eastern part is mostly disgusted with the invaders. This is the reality. You can live in your made up fantasy. Don't expect the rest of us to join you


The Chinese here are cheering for Russia is because the situation is anti-US/NATO, not because they know anything about Ukraine or the geopolitics of that region.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## nang2

Wood said:


> I've worked as a consultant for a big Ukrainian corporation, travelled to Kyiv several times and have stayed there months every time. There are plenty of Ukrainian people in my social circle from different ethnic affiliations within the country. Even my realtor is a Ukrainian and there is still some Ukrainian currency left in my wallet from my last travel there before COVID. What about you?
> 
> But I'll not claim that any of this is basis for me to say that I know anything about Ukrainian way of life. The majority sentiment in Ukraine is to not be a Belarus and instead be in EU. This should be apparent to anyone who is not myopic to the resistance from the local population against this Russian invasion. The pro Russian - Putin loving - Ukrainians that I know are crying in Whatsapp because some family are still in Kyiv and do not want to leave with refugees. Why do they want to stay back and resist? Even these Putin loving people don't like Putin so much anymore.
> 
> Politicians have let Ukrainians free to choose. The majority have chosen EU. Now, even the eastern part is mostly disgusted with the invaders. This is the reality. You can live in your made up fantasy. Don't expect the rest of us to join you


That is the problem of democracy, which only speaks for the majority. It is easily converted to a tool for the majority to oppress the minority. If you think that oppression is justified because it comes out of democracy, then you are an enemy of freedom. I don't care about democracy. I only care about freedom, which is what people can really enjoy.

Ukrainian politicians certainly DID NOT let Ukrainians free to choose. They just let the majority to choose for the minority. How is that free?

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> View attachment 824089
> 
> 
> 
> Then what is that?
> 
> 
> That was the Soviet Union. With the collapse of the Soviet Union,there was no need for NATO to expand.
> 
> 
> Imaginary aggression. Most of them joined NATO and the European Union to get money.
> 
> 
> No,we would have had a war in 2008. You don't remember the war in Georgia in 2008,do you?
> 
> 
> And they did. They voted for Yanukovich and the ultranationalists and pro-Western parties started the Euromaidan protests and riots and took over the government. They kicked out the legally elected government of the country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought you're not a fascist?
> 
> View attachment 824090
> 
> 
> Tell me again how you like Ukrainian Nazi-collaborationists
> 
> View attachment 824091




Vladi is this you?

Russian propaganda straight out of RT. 

Its senseless anyways. Rant all you want, my ideas are made reality and yours are seen as russiam 5th column. 

Just today EU announced even more sanctions. 

Russia is in danger to financial collapse. 😗









EU Lines Up Fourth Round of Russia Sanctions


Welcome to the Brussels Edition, Bloomberg’s daily briefing on what matters most in the heart of the European Union.




www.bloomberg.com





Lets not call it sanctions. Its special economic operation to deputinize russia.

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## Wood

gambit said:


> The Chinese here are cheering for Russia is because the situation is anti-US/NATO, not because they know anything about Ukraine or the geopolitics of that region.


Precisely. They cannot digest a contrary opinion that does not involve cheering their philosophy on right or wrong


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503446443616522241

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503446858244530185


----------



## beijingwalker

oberschlesier said:


> The eastern part, yes. western part no.
> It already takes almost 3 weeks in mostly russian speaking eastern part of Ukraine to conviced them they are one culture. I would rather say, speaking russian does not make you russian.


Poles have every right to hate Russians and I understand it after learning what they did to your people especially the Katyn forest massacre, but you guys also should be cautious and don't let Nato use you as cannon fodder.

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## oberschlesier

Foinikas said:


> View attachment 824089
> 
> 
> 
> Then what is that?
> 
> 
> That was the Soviet Union. With the collapse of the Soviet Union,there was no need for NATO to expand.
> 
> 
> Imaginary aggression. Most of them joined NATO and the European Union to get money.
> 
> 
> No,we would have had a war in 2008. You don't remember the war in Georgia in 2008,do you?
> 
> 
> And they did. They voted for Yanukovich and the ultranationalists and pro-Western parties started the Euromaidan protests and riots and took over the government. They kicked out the legally elected government of the country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought you're not a fascist?
> 
> View attachment 824090
> 
> 
> Tell me again how you like Ukrainian Nazi-collaborationists
> 
> View attachment 824091


Really ? You how difficult it was for PL to join NATO ? The Americans did not wanted to allow this as first! As well the Germans. It required years to prepare and doing diplomatic work. It was just the goal of those Central European countries to join NATO and EU as it natural place to be due to culture and civilisation belonging.

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## Apollon

bobo6661 said:


> Slava Ukraine! Man that word means glory for ukraine ...
> 
> AND tell me about russian collaborationists russians were the biggest collaborators during ww2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Collaboration in the German-occupied Soviet Union - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Golden Dawn (Greece) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we should invide Greece now ?



Ignore him, he has a small minority opinion.

Greece stands firm on side of Ukraine.

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## Foinikas

bobo6661 said:


> man just stop your russian propaganda its realy bad ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> History of Ukraine - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Novorossia is just , is a historical term of the russian empire denoting a region north of the Black Sea nothing more no culture no anything. now they trying to print it as something special so they can grab land nothing more


Russian propaganda? It's part of history. 

You don't like Russians? Ok. You can't tell me that the majority of what is now Ukraine,was not Russian. 














I think that Lviv and should belong to Poland by the way.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

nang2 said:


> That is the problem of democracy, which only speaks for the majority. It is easily converted to a tool for the majority to oppress the minority. If you think that oppression is justified because it comes out of democracy, then you are an enemy of freedom. I don't care about democracy. I only care about freedom, which is what people can really enjoy.
> 
> Ukrainian politicians certainly DID NOT let Ukrainians free to choose. They just let the majority to choose for the minority. How is that free?


Democracy does not only mean that the majority get to decide everything. The minority will get proportional power. The majority will not always align with every opinion among themselves and will therefore create a space for minority to strategically align with right parties for their goals. This is typically called 'vote bank' politics in democratic countries and it guarantees proportional freedom.

There is NO system that can make anyone happy. The essence of politics is to manage a compromise between opposing self interests. It will never be good for everyone. Now don't try to tell us you know the answer. The Ukrainians have shown the world what they want by fighting against the invasion.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## beijingwalker

gambit said:


> The Chinese here are cheering for Russia is because the situation is anti-US/NATO, not because they know anything about Ukraine or the geopolitics of that region.


Not totally true, we do know a lot about Ukraine or the geopolitics of that region, but you got one thing right, we cheer for anti US and Nato, actually we don't have much problem with any specific European countries, the only country we have problem with is US.


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503446217191264262

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## kingQamaR

beijingwalker said:


> Then why Nato is so worked up?



Not as much as you Beijing

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## Foinikas

oberschlesier said:


> Really ? You how difficult it was for PL to join NATO ? The Americans did not wanted to allow this as first! As well the Germans. It required years to prepare and doing diplomatic work. It was just the goal of those Central European countries to join NATO and EU as it natural place to be due to culture and civilisation belonging.


Poland in NATO is so and so. I like Poland. But Czechoslovakia? Croatia? Albania? Slovenia? And most importantly Romania and Bulgaria?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503445956519411724


----------



## kingQamaR

beijingwalker said:


> Trump started trade war with China over 4 years ago and he claimed : trade war is good and it's easy to win. Do you want to know the result?



That was no trade war comrade, more of a opportunistic stunt by trump on you. Watch and learn from Putin disaster


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Ignore him, he has a small minority opinion.
> 
> Greece stands firm on side of Ukraine.


Small minority opinion? Only liberal women,Ukrainian immigrants and fanatic pro-NATO and pro-EU Greeks are supporting Ukraine. The rest of Greece wants us to either be neutral or support Russia. Wtf?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

beijingwalker said:


> Not totally true, we do know a lot about Ukraine or the geopolitics of that region, but you got one thing right, we cheer for anti US and Nato, actually we don't have much problem with any specific European countries, the only country we have problem with is US.



Not very smart move.

Europe is a massive economic force. Russia an economic dwarf. You just said you want damage us just because you dont like usa?


----------



## Foinikas

beijingwalker said:


> Poles have every right to hate Russians and I understand it after learning what they did to your people especially the Katyn forest massacre, but you guys also should be cautious and don't let Nato use you as cannon fodder.


Hatred for the Soviet Union and EU money made most former Eastern Bloc countries want to join NATO.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503443114274533384

Reactions: Sad Sad:
1


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## beijingwalker

kingQamaR said:


> That was no trade war comrade, more of a opportunistic stunt by trump on you. Watch and learn from Putin disaster


The trade war has been around for over 4 years , you don't know? what disaster? like gas shortage in Europe and US skyrocketing inflation?


----------



## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Small minority opinion? Only liberal women,Ukrainian immigrants and fanatic pro-NATO and pro-EU Greeks are supporting Ukraine. The rest of Greece wants us to either be neutral or support Russia. Wtf?




Ummm let me check what our government says about this...


Uh ohhh buddy seems like our government stands 100% on my side. :/


----------



## kingQamaR

beijingwalker said:


> The trade war has been around for over 4 years , you don't know? what disaster? like gas shortage in Europe and US skyrocketing inflation?



China is extremely dependent on the West for its growth. I'm pretty sure that even China, with some fear, is looking at how the West has merged. This makes China very cautious about how they support Russia in this situation. .


----------



## nang2

Wood said:


> Democracy does not only mean that the majority get to decide everything. The minority will get proportional power. The majority will not always align with every opinion among themselves and will therefore create a space for minority to strategically align with right parties for their goals. This is typically called 'vote bank' politics in democratic countries and it guarantees proportional freedom.
> 
> There is NO system that can make anyone happy. The essence of politics is to manage a compromise between opposing self interests. It will never be good for everyone. Now don't try to tell us you know the answer. The Ukrainians have shown the world what they want by fighting against the invasion.


What are you talking about? Democracy means majority rule. I didn't say majority party. You only get your goals achieved by being a part of majority. Minority is always the loser, every, single, time. US founding fathers knew this very well. That is why the very first amendment for their constitution is the bill of right. Minority's right is protected by the rule of law that upholds the constitution, not by democracy. The majority cannot hurt the minority until they can change the constitution. Democracy is not the reason why US is called the land of the free. It is shockingly amazing to see so many people believe in achieving freedom via democracy and justify their ideas by simply being a part of the majority.


----------



## Constantin84

Foinikas said:


> Poland in NATO is so and so. I like Poland. But Czechoslovakia? Croatia? Albania? Slovenia? And most importantly Romania and Bulgaria?


What exactly is wrong with Romania in NATO if we want to be part of it? Should we just bow to Russia because you want it so?

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## bobo6661

Foinikas said:


> ussian propaganda? It's part of history.
> 
> You don't like Russians? Ok. You can't tell me that the majority of what is now Ukraine,was not Russian.


Man you know shit about that region and culture you know Kiev Rus was not a monolit ...



Foinikas said:


> I think that Lviv and should belong to Poland by the way.


Kiev belonged to







And i dont fking belive it belongs to us or should belong to us its Ukraine land not ours


----------



## beijingwalker

Apollon said:


> Not very smart move.
> 
> Europe is a massive economic force. Russia an economic dwarf. You just said you want damage us just because you dont like usa?


China never wants to damage Europe, it's US roping Europe to fight China, you guys should learn to become independent from US.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503437284670152709


----------



## beijingwalker

kingQamaR said:


> China is extremely dependent on the West for its growth. I'm pretty sure that even China, with some fear, is looking at how the West has merged. This makes China very cautious about how they support Russia in this situation. .


Who depends on who? the west is highly dependent on China. or at most inter dependent, now China can live perfectly without the west, the west just can't live without China cause the whole global supply line is in China's hands.


----------



## oberschlesier

beijingwalker said:


> Poles have every right to hate Russians and I understand it after learning what they did to your people especially the Katyn forest massacre, but you guys also should be cautious and don't let Nato use you as cannon fodder.


Poles don`t hate Russians! Russians as people are really okay I know some, but the russian imperial ideas are not. Katyn is one thing. Being in the easter block after WW2 and having a really bad economical system forced by the soviets for 45 years this is the real issue! Being again in the russian zone? NO! thank you! Better being in EU and at the east flank of NATO.

Anyway, NATO is a defence pact. It won`t interviene.

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1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503444378949505025

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## NA71

now look at this from well known Indian

Reactions: Haha Haha:
4


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## Apollon

Constantin84 said:


> What exactly is wrong with Romania in NATO if we want to be part of it? Should we just bow to Russia because you want it so?



You have evry right to be in NATO. Ignore him, its some religious dogma he has. Like the crazy evangelicals in UsA who support Israel to death.

Im glad Romania is in NATO. We are stronger together.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

nang2 said:


> What are you talking about? Democracy means majority rule. I didn't say majority party. You only get your goals achieved by being a part of majority. Minority is always the loser, every, single, time. US founding fathers knew this very well. That is why the very first amendment for their constitution is the bill of right. Minority's right is protected by the rule of law that upholds the constitution, not by democracy. The majority cannot hurt the minority until they can change the constitution. Democracy is not the reason why US is called the land of the free. It is shockingly amazing to see so many people believe in achieving freedom via democracy and justify their ideas by simply being a part of the majority.


Majority is often formed through coalitions. Coalitions often change - thus it means you win some and you loose some. The same party will not be majority all the time.

Do you know what you are talking about? Evidently not. You just have some text book pre conceived ideas, perhaps from politburo. The very fact that American congress is not able to pass laws easily should tell you something. Bill of fundamental rights is available in most constitutions. It is not strictly a democratic thing, although most democracies have it.

Don't try to drag me into off topic diatribes to justify your naive idea that Ukrainians are naive


----------



## Apollon

beijingwalker said:


> China never wants to damage Europe, it's US roping Europe to fight China, you guys should learn to become independent from US.




War in Ukraine is horrible for us.

I think thats main reason China only gives warm words to putin.


----------



## zartosht

kingQamaR said:


> China have seen the financial sanctions put in place and as China loves money they will step back from Putin



If china is serious about retaking taiwan. then it must not only ensure Russian success, but it must also brace itself for at least as strong economic measures.

economic warfare is the biggest weapon in the western arsenal. It might be a little painful at the beginning, but ending this western financial monopoly is greatly in the interests of the chinese state long term.

If China and chinese are scared of a few sanctions already, then consider taiwan as good as lost. And word play matters nothing to the west. just because taiwan is not recognized means 0 to them. Taiwan is far more important geopolitcally and economically then ukraine

and western sanctions will be at least as harsh when that day comes ..




Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503443114274533384



you do realize that every single one of these videos are textbook examples of war crimes? *you are not allowed to publicly film an interrogate, or humiliate a POW*

Ukies might think it makes them look tough when they abuse a soldier who has already surrendered and is no position to defend himself. But i can assure you, with 100% certainty. these animals will be hunted down by the Russian intelligence networks, and slaughtered like pigs.

*just like what happened to every single chechen terrorist leader that fought russia previously. *

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## beijingwalker

oberschlesier said:


> Poles don`t hate Russians!


Actually this is true, I talked to several Polish students in Beijing, none of them hate Russians, I guess after all you and Russians are also the same bunch from the same stock.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Wood said:


> It is also incorrect to say that Ukrainian politicians and their intelligentsia are naive for wanting to be a free democratic society. Please consider that more people from authoritarian countries have moved to liberal democracies than vice versa when politics is the reason for immigration.


Ah yes democratic Indians, Pakistanis and Filipinos move to Saudi Arabia, UAE and Qatar to enjoy the even greater democracy there... Right?

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## Wood

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Ah yes democratic Indians, Pakistanis and Filipinos move to Saudi Arabia, UAE and Qatar to enjoy the even greater democracy there... Right?


Democratic Indians do not go to these countries to taste autocracy. They go there for pay check. Do Chinese not move to US? Do they go there for democracy or paycheck?


----------



## Apollon

zartosht said:


> If china is serious about retaking taiwan. then it must not only ensure Russian success, but it must also brace itself for at least as strong economic measures.
> 
> economic warfare is the biggest weapon in the western arsenal. It might be a little painful at the beginning, but ending this western financial monopoly is greatly in the interests of the chinese state long term.
> 
> If China and chinese are scared of a few sanctions already, then consider taiwan as good as lost. And word play matters nothing to the west. just because taiwan is not recognized means 0 to them. Taiwan is far more important geopolitcally and economically then ukraine
> 
> and western sanctions will be at least as harsh when that day comes ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you do realize that every single one of these videos are textbook examples of war crimes? *you are not allowed to publicly film an interrogate, or humiliate a POW*
> 
> Ukies might think it makes them look tough when they abuse a soldier who has already surrendered and is no position to defend himself. But i can assure you, with 100% certainty. these animals will be hunted down by the Russian intelligence networks, and slaughtered like pigs.
> 
> *just like what happened to every single chechen terrorist leader that fought russia previously. *



The same russian intelligence networks that told Vladoplph that it will take 2 days to conquer Ukraine and they will be greeted with flowers and wine?

Dude get real. Russia has become soft and rotten to the core.

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## EasyNow

nang2 said:


> That is the problem of democracy, which only speaks for the majority. It is easily converted to a tool for the majority to oppress the minority. If you think that oppression is justified because it comes out of democracy, then you are an enemy of freedom. I don't care about democracy. I only care about freedom, which is what people can really enjoy.
> 
> Ukrainian politicians certainly DID NOT let Ukrainians free to choose. They just let the majority to choose for the minority. How is that free?



It is still better than one man making decisions for the majority. 

In fact, no one protects minority rights as well as in democracy. Ask any Chinese in the UK or USA.

Russia is an ancient civilization. But they should have changed with time - killing to keep someone on your side is futile in this era.

Compare it to when Scotland wanted to leave the UK, or Brexit. These are multi trillion dollar, era defining decisions that affect millions of people. But the people decided and they got what they wanted, for better or worse. Brexit was a complete disaster for Europe but they are still accepting it.

Now look at Russia, how dare 1 person believe he has the right to decide the future of everyone in the region?? If Russia's time is over, they should take it with dignity.

Honestly, anyone supporting Russia in this war is on the wrong side.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503453388482265091

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Gripen9

NA71 said:


> now look at this from well known Indian
> 
> View attachment 824099


Bakshi has opened his bottle a bit early in the day.... or maybe continuing from last night?


----------



## oberschlesier

beijingwalker said:


> Actually this is true, I talked to several Polish students in Beijing, none of them hate Russians, I guess after all you and Russians are also the same bunch from the same stock.


Yeah, both slavic nations, but since 1000+ years Poland is part of the west and Russia has it`s own way. Anyway, why would you hate anybody ? Why you have to use tanks to convice somebody you belong to a culture. You either belong or not.

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## Primus

NA71 said:


> now look at this from well known Indian
> 
> View attachment 824099


What a helmet head


----------



## nang2

Wood said:


> Majority is often formed through coalitions. Coalitions often change - thus it means you win some and you loose some. The same party will not be majority all the time.
> 
> Do you know what you are talking about? Evidently not. You just have some text book pre conceived ideas, perhaps from politburo. The very fact that American congress is not able to pass laws easily should tell you something. Bill of fundamental rights is available in most constitutions. It is not strictly a democratic thing, although most democracies have it.
> 
> Don't try to drag me into off topic diatribes to justify your naive idea that Ukrainians are naive


First part, well, tell that to libertarians who have been perpetual losers.

Second part, tell that to Russian-speaking Ukrainians to see how their rights are protected. It is funny to see the West crying out cultural genocide when China wants to enforce Chinese language on Uyghurs. But restricting Russian language usage in Ukraine seems to be perfectly fine. Of course, it is the decision of the majority, right?

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## FairAndUnbiased

Wood said:


> Democratic Indians do not go to these countries to taste autocracy. They go there for pay check. Do Chinese not move to US? Do they go there for democracy or paycheck?



Simple proof: if it's for paycheck then immigration corresponds to GDP per capita: as GDP per capita increases beyond a certain limit, immigration declines.

If it's for democracy then it'll correspond to major political events like 2017 Xi Jinping removing term limits.

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## nang2

EasyNow said:


> It is still better than one man making decisions for the majority.
> 
> In fact, no one protects minority rights as well as in democracy. Ask any Chinese in the UK or USA.
> 
> Russia is an ancient civilization. But they should have changed with time - killing to keep someone on your side is futile in this era.
> 
> Compare it to when Scotland wanted to leave the UK, or Brexit. These are multi trillion dollar, era defining decisions that affect millions of people. But the people decided and they got what they wanted, for better or worse. Brexit was a complete disaster for Europe but they are still accepting it.
> 
> Now look at Russia, how dare 1 person believe he has the right to decide the future of everyone in the region?? If Russia's time is over, they should take it with dignity.
> 
> Honestly, anyone supporting Russia in this war is on the wrong side.


Both are worse than people making decisions for their own.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503415130557669379


----------



## Paul2

US: 20th day, all silence

If Biden will keep its stance, I guess the once joke "Eurocorps" will turn a reality

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503346807497461763

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503451587032797184

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Wood

nang2 said:


> First part, well, tell that to libertarians who have been perpetual losers.
> 
> Second part, tell that to Russian-speaking Ukrainians to see how their rights are protected. It is funny to see the West crying out cultural genocide when China wants to enforce Chinese language on Uyghurs. But restricting Russian language usage in Ukraine seems to be perfectly fine. Of course, it is the decision of the majority, right?


So it is right to invade Kyiv for preserving the Russian speaking privilege for Ukrainians in the east? Chinese of course are the guarantors of people's freedom because they have the perfect system


----------



## nang2

Paul2 said:


> US: 20th day, all silence
> 
> If Biden will keep its stance, I guess the once joke "Eurocorps" will turn a reality


If De Gaulle were still around after the collapse of Soviet, it might have turned a reality.


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503456156324401163

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503455587643838470


----------



## Wood

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Simple proof: if it's for paycheck then immigration corresponds to GDP per capita: as GDP per capita increases beyond a certain limit, immigration declines.
> 
> If it's for democracy then it'll correspond to major political events like 2017 Xi Jinping removing term limits.


So if you agree that people can immigrate for paycheck, then why associate that with democracy? 🤦‍♂️  

PS: This talk of democracy is off topic for the thread. I suggest you save it for a germane conversation. I'll gladly take part.


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Ummm let me check what our government says about this...
> 
> 
> Uh ohhh buddy seems like our government stands 100% on my side. :/


The government. Yes. But not everyone supports the government on this matter. Not even a lot of its voters.


----------



## nang2

Wood said:


> So it is right to invade Kyiv for preserving the Russian speaking privilege for Ukrainians in the east? Chinese of course are the guarantors of people's freedom because they have the perfect system


I didn't mention anything about what is done by Russians. Why do you draw such a conclusion? Having trouble with logic? The fact I am saying Ukrainians are naive isn't any justification for what Russians did and are doing.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Foinikas

Constantin84 said:


> What exactly is wrong with Romania in NATO if we want to be part of it? Should we just bow to Russia because you want it so?


No brother! You can be neutral. You can stay neutral. And Moldova should unite with Romania and let Transnistria become independent. You don't need them. Why does everyone have to join NATO?


----------



## nang2

Foinikas said:


> No brother! You can be neutral. You can stay neutral. And Moldova should unite with Romania and let Transnistria become independent. You don't need them. Why does everyone have to join NATO?


Simple. It is cheaper.


----------



## gambit

beijingwalker said:


> Not totally true, we do know a lot about Ukraine or the geopolitics of that region, but you got one thing right, we cheer for anti US and Nato, actually we don't have much problem with any specific European countries, the only country we have problem with is US.


You guys here support Russia because The Party *ORDERED* you to support Russia.

But there is no doubt as to what I have been saying that your China is keeping Russia at arm's length. That quick tongue kiss between Poutine and Xi did not turned out too well, ain't it? 

We are closing in on 21 days of this war. All these decades, China have been dependent on Russia for military hardware and doctrine. Xi was counting on the Russian military to give China a new Desert Storm and the Russian military failed. Now, the PLA is without guidance. You can harass Taiwanese airspace all you want but for at least the next couple yrs, harassment is all China can do as Xi helplessly watch as the US raise its arms supply to Taiwan, and the rest of Asia increase their defense spending. Xi put China's future on Russia and Poutine buckled.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> The government. Yes. But not everyone supports the government on this matter. Not even a lot of its voters.




Btw the patriarch of moscow is the personifaction about evrything whats wrong on orthodox world. Extremly corrupt. Former KGB agent, praises killings and wars in his church to get fed by Putin.

Sorry but i have self value. I cant see a man as religious authority who i would not even trust to feed my cat when im on vacation.


----------



## Foinikas

bobo6661 said:


> Man you know shit about that region and culture you know Kiev Rus was not a monolit ...
> 
> 
> Kiev belonged to
> 
> View attachment 824096
> 
> 
> And i dont fking belive it belongs to us or should belong to us its Ukraine land not ours


Ok then give back Silesia,Pomerania and West Prussia to the Germans.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## OldTwilight

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> While the whole Ukraine-Russia story is ok interesting but the real retaliation will come for this theft once Russia reestablish control
> 
> The world is ready for a new financial system
> Seems like Russian people had *700 Billion Dollar* saved in international outlets for trade , and *300 Billion* has been sanctioned , seems pretty nasty that Russian wealth is being stolen
> 
> This will be big
> 
> Source RT.COM (Russian)
> 
> 
> https://www.rt.com/business/551803-siluanov-russia-reserves-frozen/
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 823898
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nato has launched the financial Bomb against Russia



well , the western are overusing their financial weapon ...


----------



## Wood

nang2 said:


> I didn't mention anything about what is done by Russians. Why do you draw such a conclusion? Having trouble with logic? The fact I am saying Ukrainians are naive isn't any justification for what Russians did and are doing.


You are the one stuck in mud as far as I can tell.

On one hand you try to say Ukrainians have themselves to blame because they are naive. Then you say Russians are unjustified in invading Ukraine.

So first you say victim of Rape is at fault (for whatever reason). Then you say that the Rapist is not justified


----------



## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> No brother! You can be neutral. You can stay neutral. And Moldova should unite with Romania and let Transnistria become independent. You don't need them. Why does everyone have to join NATO?



We could also join turkey. Why waste money on defense...dude do you even realize what rubbish you write?

NATO is life security for Romania against Russian agression.


----------



## nang2

Wood said:


> You are the one stuck in mud as far as I can tell.
> 
> On one hand you try to say Ukrainians have themselves to blame because they are naive. Then you say Russians are unjustified in invading Ukraine.
> 
> So first you say victim of Rape is at fault (for whatever reason). Then you say that the Rapist is not justified


God you are naive. World must be black and white to you. In every conflict there is only one bad guy. The rest must be flawless.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503458358556303362

Reactions: Like Like:
4 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Wood

nang2 said:


> God you are naive. World must be black and white to you. In every conflict there is only one bad guy. The rest must be flawless.


Now you have resorted to calling people on the internet 'naive'. This is where you have come down to. Because there is no argument left for you expect to let other people know that you are superior and intelligent


----------



## oberschlesier

Foinikas said:


> Ok then give back Silesia,Pomerania and West Prussia to the Germans.


Why ? Almost NO german popuation left and because of the EU, Germans can visit, live, invest, and do business as much as they can and are very welcome.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Foinikas

nang2 said:


> Simple. It is cheaper.


Every


Apollon said:


> Btw the patriarch of moscow is the personifaction about evrything whats wrong on orthodox world. Extremly corrupt. Former KGB agent, praises killings and wars in his church to get fed by Putin.
> 
> Sorry but i have self value. I cant see a man as religious authority who i would not even trust to feed my cat when im on vacation.


They say things about Bartholomew too,
that he is a Turkish spy etc.

Suddenly everyone is a KGB spy and an American spy and a Turkish spy. 

I don't know about these Patriarchs. I know about the Saints,the Elders,the monks and nuns and pious people who lived in the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union and talked about things. Those who were holy people and not involved in politics and intrigues. Those who talked about the future of Russia when the revolution was starting,those who talked about the end of communism in Russia about wars to come and China's betrayal .


----------



## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503454027480240129

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503450029176107017

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503457163888443395

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503457667452444677

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503459234939297801

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

nang2 said:


> nang2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the recent claim that China is the biggest winner is mostly a propaganda piece, aiming at preventing China from supplying Russia. China, if it is a winner, is only a very small winner benefited from US being distracted. It gets very little material gain with fairly large publicity risk.
> 
> I think the biggest winner is US with its brinkmanship policy that keeps on pushing Russia. If Russia pushes back, like this case, Russia loses due to the massive backlash. If Russia doesn't, US further strengthens its position in Ukraine against Russia. Either way, US wins.
> 
> As of losers, Russia is certainly one of them but the biggest is Ukraine.
Click to expand...


It seems Russia was aware of the consequences and decided to embrace the risk. The main underlying cause of this conflict is Russia deciding to *de-dollarize* its economy. The Western elites saw that action as a threat to their financial hegemony. The widespread sanctions imposed on Russia and the removal of their banking system from SWIFT (The Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication) should be understood in this context. 

In the end, Russia has huge natural resources that most of the huge economies of the world need. Besides, their SPFS (System for Transfer of Financial Messages) and being a member of CIPS (the Cross-Border Interbank Payment System) allow them to carry out their trade outside of the SWIFT and other Western-backed financial systems.

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## Constantin84

Foinikas said:


> No brother! You can be neutral. You can stay neutral. And Moldova should unite with Romania and let Transnistria become independent. You don't need them. Why does everyone have to join NATO?


Neutrality while neighbouring Russia means you'll get invaded by them. Moldova chose Neutrality and had its territory carved up by Russia.


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> We could also join turkey. Why waste money on defense...dude do you even realize what rubbish you write?
> 
> NATO is life security for Romania against Russian agression.


The f has Turkey to do with what I said? 

Do you think NATO guarantees security? 
Zelensky thought they would protect him and do whatever he asks.

I'm asking you again,what did NATO do for Greece when Cyprus was invaded? 

Do you think they will come help us if Turkey attacks? Maybe France. The others? The British? The Northerners? The Germans? 

Romania and Bulgaria should have stayed neutral. NATO shouldn't have expanded after 1997. When you push Russians to the limit the will react.


----------



## Foinikas

Constantin84 said:


> Neutrality while neighbouring Russia means you'll get invaded by them. Moldova chose Neutrality and had its territory carved up by Russia.


Transnistria? Big deal. A tiny part that had majority Russian population if I'm not mistaken had not been part of Greater Romania. You could have good relations with both West and Russia.

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## Paul2

Foinikas said:


> Every
> 
> They say things about Bartholomew too,
> that he is a Turkish spy etc.
> 
> Suddenly everyone is a KGB spy and an American spy and a Turkish spy.
> 
> I don't know about these Patriarchs. I know about the Saints,the Elders,the monks and nuns and pious people who lived in the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union and talked about things. Those who were holy people and not involved in politics and intrigues. Those who talked about the future of Russia when the revolution was starting,those who talked about the end of communism in Russia about wars to come and China's betrayal .



Chinas... betrayal? 

If China will really betray Putin, we just walk over into now unguarded outer northeast, and quadruple our arable land.

And the West will even pay us money for that.

But Xi is sitting very tight in Zhongnanhai, and he will likely do so until he secures the 3rd term, and Russia-US brouhaha settles down. Which will be at least 3-4 years.

For these 3-4 years, Russia will be given the breathing space.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503458331989528589

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## The SC

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503448288363782154

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## oberschlesier

Vergennes said:


> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503454027480240129


Another T-72B3. If this continues couple of weeks more, they will burn through a lot of their "modern" land potential.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

gambit said:


> You guys here support Russia because The Party *ORDERED* you to support Russia.
> 
> But there is no doubt as to what I have been saying that your China is keeping Russia at arm's length. That quick tongue kiss between Poutine and Xi did not turned out too well, ain't it?
> 
> We are closing in on 21 days of this war. All these decades, China have been dependent on Russia for military hardware and doctrine. Xi was counting on the Russian military to give China a new Desert Storm and the Russian military failed. Now, the PLA is without guidance. You can harass Taiwanese airspace all you want but for at least the next couple yrs, harassment is all China can do as Xi helplessly watch as the US raise its arms supply to Taiwan, and the rest of Asia increase their defense spending. Xi put China's future on Russia and Poutine buckled.


Lol wut there's no comparison between Desert Storm and Russia vs Ukraine. 

Ukraine has a population 1/4 and GDP 1/8 of Russia.

US had population 10x Iraq and GDP 40x Iraq in Desert Storm.

In terms of troops deployed in theater US coalition deployed 900k vs 650k Iraqis. Russia deployed 150k vs 200k Ukrainians.

Going by the above facts Russia is punching above it's weight.

China also doesn't depend on Russia for anything except resources and their geographic location. It's the other way around, Russia depends on Chinese industry.

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## Foinikas

Paul2 said:


> Chinas... betrayal?
> 
> If China will really betray Putin, we just walk over into now unguarded outer northeast, and quadruple our arable land.
> 
> And the West will even pay us money for that.
> 
> But Xi is sitting very tight in Zhongnanhai, and he will likely do so until he secures the 3rd term, and Russia-US brouhaha settles down. Which will be at least 3-4 years.
> 
> For these 3-4 years, Russia will be given the breathing space.


I don't know if it will be Putin or another government. Should I make a thread about all those prophecies? What do you think?


----------



## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Every
> 
> They say things about Bartholomew too,
> that he is a Turkish spy etc.
> 
> Suddenly everyone is a KGB spy and an American spy and a Turkish spy.
> 
> I don't know about these Patriarchs. I know about the Saints,the Elders,the monks and nuns and pious people who lived in the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union and talked about things. Those who were holy people and not involved in politics and intrigues. Those who talked about the future of Russia when the revolution was starting,those who talked about the end of communism in Russia about wars to come and China's betrayal .




Its not a rumor that he was KGB, its in his actual cv...he worked there years









Patriarch Kirill of Moscow - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





He also wears a watch worth 20.000 €. He strongly supports the war also.

Tell me what does the bible say about killing and war?

He is a putin tool, nothing else.

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## Meengla

Foinikas said:


> But tell me,if Kosovo has the right to declare independence,then why can't DNR and LNR do the same? If NATO can attack Libya to change the government,why can't Russia do the same?



You are right. If Kosovo could do that and NATO could bomb Belgrade without the UNSC authorization for so many days then so could Russia now.
Doesn't make Russia's actions 'right'. Just establishing a perspective and exposing hypocrisy of some people.

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## Apollon

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It seems Russia was aware of the consequences and decided to embrace the risk. The main underlying cause of this conflict is Russia deciding to *de-dollarize* its economy. The Western elites saw that action as a threat to their financial hegemony. The widespread sanctions imposed on Russia and the removal of their banking system from SWIFT (The Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication) should be understood in this context.
> 
> In the end, Russia has huge natural resources that most of the huge economies of the world need. Besides, their SPFS (System for Transfer of Financial Messages) and being a member of CIPS (the Cross-Border Interbank Payment System) allow them to carry out their trade outside of the SWIFT and other Western-backed financial systems.



Nope, its really just putler starting a genocidal war in europe


----------



## nang2

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It seems Russia was aware of the consequences and decided to embrace the risk. The main underlying cause of this conflict is Russia deciding to *de-dollarize* its economy. The Western elites saw that action as a threat to their financial hegemony. The widespread sanctions imposed on Russia and the removal of their banking system from SWIFT (The Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication) should be understood in this context.
> 
> In the end, Russia has huge natural resources that most of the huge economies of the world need. Besides, their SPFS (System for Transfer of Financial Messages) and being a member of CIPS (the Cross-Border Interbank Payment System) allow them to carry out their trade outside of the SWIFT and other Western-backed financial systems.


That is for sure. Look how they had built up their gold reserve in the last few years and replaced their US treasury holding.

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## RescueRanger

In the interests of preserving bandwidth and keeping this thread as sterile from mud flinging, please may I respectfully request members take any arguments about anything other than the conflict in Ukraine and the human catastrophe unfolding in Realtime to either a DM or make some form of decompress thread in members club. 

Please it makes it very hard to filter through the thread with many posts just tête a tête between two or more members not adding anything of value to the discussion. Thank you.

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## oberschlesier

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It seems Russia was aware of the consequences and decided to embrace the risk. The main underlying cause of this conflict is Russia deciding to *de-dollarize* its economy. The Western elites saw that action as a threat to their financial hegemony. The widespread sanctions imposed on Russia and the removal of their banking system from SWIFT (The Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication) should be understood in this context.
> 
> In the end, Russia has huge natural resources that most of the huge economies of the world need. Besides, their SPFS (System for Transfer of Financial Messages) and being a member of CIPS (the Cross-Border Interbank Payment System) allow them to carry out their trade outside of the SWIFT and other Western-backed financial systems.


Russian economy is too small to have an impact.

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## nang2

Wood said:


> Now you have resorted to calling people on the internet 'naive'. This is where you have come down to. Because there is no argument left for you expect to let other people know that you are superior and intelligent


Sorry about that.  But my point was right on, wasn't it?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503462100622098437
Russian armor continues to get obliterated

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503462891130871816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503463492690534406

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Its not a rumor that he was KGB, its in his actual cv...he worked there years
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Patriarch Kirill of Moscow - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He also wears a watch worth 20.000 €. He strongly supports the war also.
> 
> Tell me what does the bible say about killing and war?
> 
> He is a putin tool, nothing else.


If Turkey wanted to establish a base in FYROM and have ballistic missiles there and thousands of soldiers...would you have accepted it or would you have done something to prevent it?


----------



## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503448288363782154


*COVER UP THE IMAGES OF THE DEAD PLEASE! *

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Apollon said:


> Nope, its really just putler starting a genocidal war in europe



Wars don't happen by accident. There are events that precede the wars that contribute to the start of hostility. Understanding those would tell you why we're where we're now.

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## oberschlesier

Foinikas said:


> Ukrainians winning,but somehow asking for a no-fly zone,Russians bombing even Lviv and the foreign legion going back home.


Nope, The Ukrainians are not loosing and taking into account the on paper potential, this is a big thing and surprise.

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## Wood

nang2 said:


> Sorry about that.  But my point was right on, wasn't it?


No, it was not. I reject the idea that there is any sort of justification for the invasion of Ukraine by Russia. Ethnic Russians in Ukraine did not always have their Russian linguistic heritage trampled upon. In fact, many western Ukrainians who are not Russian can speak Russian language. You will know it if you know enough of them. Don't try to convince me that there is a grey area and responsibility for the conflict lies with both sides.

You can choose to believe what you want. But do not expect others to agree. They may indeed know more than you. You can never know for sure.

PS: Try to keep the conversation to Ukraine vs Russia conflict. As I've said many times in the past, I do not like the conversation moving in tangents.


----------



## zartosht

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It seems Russia was aware of the consequences and decided to embrace the risk. The main underlying cause of this conflict is Russia deciding to *de-dollarize* its economy. The Western elites saw that action as a threat to their financial hegemony. The widespread sanctions imposed on Russia and the removal of their banking system from SWIFT (The Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication) should be understood in this context.
> 
> In the end, Russia has huge natural resources that most of the huge economies of the world need. Besides, their SPFS (System for Transfer of Financial Messages) and being a member of CIPS (the Cross-Border Interbank Payment System) allow them to carry out their trade outside of the SWIFT and other Western-backed financial systems.



well said.

This is a picture from 1920s germany: 













Thats the real value of your numbers inflated economy, When it comes down to it, its actually toilet paper. 

real wealth is physical goods. And commodities such as energy are on top of the list.

these idiots comparing italy and Russia as having the same economy because of GDP numbers have no clue what real wealth is when shit hits the fan. 

Russia got what the whole world needs. The west has only threats and financial blackmail. you decide who will lose more long term.

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## nang2

zartosht said:


> well said.
> 
> This is a picture from 1920s germany:
> 
> View attachment 824123
> 
> 
> View attachment 824124
> 
> 
> 
> Thats the real value of your numbers inflated economy, When it comes down to it, its actually toilet paper.
> 
> real wealth is physical goods. And commodities such as energy are on top of the list.
> 
> these idiots comparing italy and Russia as having the same economy because of GDP numbers have no clue what real wealth is when shit hits the fan.
> 
> Russia got what the whole world needs. The west has only threats and financial blackmail. you decide who will lose more long term.


Should be 1930s, right?

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## F-22Raptor

At the rate Russia is losing armor, I don't know how the Russian military can continue to be combat effective in a month.

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> If Turkey wanted to establish a base in FYROM and have ballistic missiles there and thousands of soldiers...would you have accepted it or would you have done something to prevent it?


I would prevent it by making peace with them and offer more than what turkey does. Bht hey, im not a facist like vladoph who offers nothing than brutality.

Its senseless now anyways. Putlers days in office are numbered. The economical damage and the damage in renomee is so gargantuan its only matter of time till someone pulls the plug


----------



## zartosht

nang2 said:


> Should be 1930s, right?



yes you are correct. stock market crash happened in october 1929. but shit really hit the fan in the 30s...


----------



## Apollon

zartosht said:


> well said.
> 
> This is a picture from 1920s germany:
> 
> View attachment 824123
> 
> 
> View attachment 824124
> 
> 
> 
> Thats the real value of your numbers inflated economy, When it comes down to it, its actually toilet paper.
> 
> real wealth is physical goods. And commodities such as energy are on top of the list.
> 
> these idiots comparing italy and Russia as having the same economy because of GDP numbers have no clue what real wealth is when shit hits the fan.
> 
> Russia got what the whole world needs. The west has only threats and financial blackmail. you decide who will lose more long term.



Russias life expectancy is on development nation status, its poor, hyper corrupt and has no functional infrastructure.

The oligarchs will decommission Putin and then we see


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> I would prevent it by making peace with them and offer more than what turkey does. Bht hey, im not a facist like vladoph who offers nothing than brutality.
> 
> Its senseless now anyways. Putlers days in office are numbered. The economical damage and the damage in renomee is so gargantuan its only matter of time till someone pulls the plug


Give who and what? What if they wanted Macedonia and to Thessaloniki with it?


----------



## Paul2

Foinikas said:


> I don't know if it will be Putin or another government. Should I make a thread about all those prophecies? What do you think?


 I will gladly comment

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> At the rate Russia is losing armor, I don't know how the Russian military can continue to be combat effective in a month.


Don't they have one of the largest tank fleets in the world? I imagine that they have a lot more than what is lost.

But I doubt that the Russian side will be able to manufacture new replacements quickly under these sanctions.


----------



## nang2

Wood said:


> No, it was not. I reject the idea that there is any sort of justification for the invasion of Ukraine by Russia. Ethnic Russians in Ukraine did not always have their Russian linguistic heritage trampled upon. In fact, many western Ukrainians who are not Russian can speak Russian language. You will know it if you know enough of them. Don't try to convince me that there is a grey area and responsibility for the conflict lies with both sides.
> 
> You can choose to believe what you want. But do not expect others to agree. They may indeed know more than you. You can never know for sure.
> 
> PS: Try to keep the conversation to Ukraine vs Russia conflict. As I've said many times in the past, I do not like the conversation moving in tangents.


Of course there is no justification for Russian invasion. Violence is only justified for self defense. But violence based on perceived threat isn't. I don't believe in so called preemptive strike, which US also likes to use. Russia, or Putin specifically, is certainly the one to be blamed for this conflict. His ego might get the best of him but that is not the reason why other people have to suffer for it. 

In addition, if you sit right next to a bear and irritate it, you would get mauled. The bear will certainly be the guilty one and be put down. But you should also learn a lesson. For God's sake, don't poke the bear, no matter how justified you think you are doing. Especially for those politicians because in the end, it is people who suffer from it.

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## EvoluXon

F-22Raptor said:


> At the rate Russia is losing armor, I don't know how the Russian military can continue to be combat effective in a month.


At the rate ukrainian and west continous propaganda, Russian has lost.. but reality is different .. Russians are gaining territory each day consolidating their position..and all the foreign mercenary Rambos have already fled back into poland after lyiv bombing...west are running out of Rambo

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## 925boy

Constantin84 said:


> Neutrality while neighbouring Russia means you'll get invaded by them.


then why is the invasion happening when there is no neutraliity? dont be foolish and understand you never live in peace if your regional hegemon has none.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503462532954177539

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503464572623196171


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## Wood

nang2 said:


> In addition, if you sit right next to a bear and irritate it, you would get mauled. The bear will certainly be the guilty one and be put down. But you should also learn a lesson. For God's sake, don't *poke the bear, no matter how justified you think you are doing*. Especially for those politicians because in the end, it is people who suffer from it.


I would agree with what you are saying if Russia did not have the practice of installing puppet gov. or invading ex-Soviet states. What do you think the Ukrainians are supposed to do when they see Russia invading Georgia? Do you not see the kind of rule in Belarus? The average Ukrainian cannot be blamed for feeling threatened because of such actions.


----------



## Meengla

Paul2 said:


> Chinas... betrayal?
> 
> If China will really betray Putin, we just walk over into now unguarded outer northeast, and quadruple our arable land.
> And the West will even pay us money for that.
> But Xi is sitting very tight in Zhongnanhai, and he will likely do so until he secures the 3rd term, and Russia-US brouhaha settles down. Which will be at least 3-4 years.
> For these 3-4 years, Russia will be given the breathing space.



Interesting.
Patrick J Buchanan once said that Russia's far east/Siberia would be eventually gobbled up by China. Patrick also said that the two World Wars made the West really weak. And I bet he's agonized over the wars in Europe, including about the current one.


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503462532954177539


Under the heavy sanctions, Russia may not have a civil aviation industry for sometime


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

oberschlesier said:


> Russian economy is too small to have an impact.



Their (Russia's) goal is to beat the sanctions and get their economy to a level where it functions without any reliance on Western financial systems. The West manipulated the Ukrainian leadership in order to prevent the Russians from achieving those goals. The root causes of this war can be traced to this rivalry. 

Now, their economy may not be huge, but both Iran and Russia have set precedence: You can survive and weather any Western-imposed sanctions. In essence, anyone who trades with them and China can virtually stay out of the Western financial systems. This is the biggest threat I see to the Western financial systems that were created after World War II. It won't be long before US sanctions will be meaningless to countries that are sanctioned because simply they'll have CIPS and SPFS available to them.

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## The SC

RescueRanger said:


> *COVER UP THE IMAGES OF THE DEAD PLEASE! *


Just delete the post.. the other tweets are worse..they show the faces too..

Or do a spoiler on it..please.. since i can't edit that post anymore..


----------



## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503467081517481999



One killed was supposed to celebrate his birthday tomorrow...

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## nang2

Wood said:


> I would agree with what you are saying if Russia did not have the practice of installing puppet gov. or invading ex-Soviet states. What do you think the Ukrainians are supposed to do when they see Russia invading Georgia? Do you not see the kind of rule in Belarus? The average Ukrainian cannot be blamed for feeling threatened because of such actions.


Still, don't poke the bear. It isn't about ideology. It is about reality because each person only have a few years to live on this planet. When a person dies, there is no coming back, unlike computers that can reboot over and over. Regardless how the average Ukrainians feel. They mostly choose to flee when the invasion started. Do you see 2.7 million Ukrainians march towards the battle field? In the end, it is always somebody else's blood.

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## oberschlesier

Okay, this is very surprising....





__





Ukrainian Hryvnia to Russian Ruble Exchange Rate Chart | Xe


UAH to RUB currency chart. XE’s free live currency conversion chart for Ukrainian Hryvnia to Russian Ruble allows you to pair exchange rate history for up to 10 years.




www.xe.com





Since the beggining of the invasion the Ukrainian Hryvnia increased it value by 60% to the Rubel (!)

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## nang2

Wood said:


> Under the heavy sanctions, Russia may not have a civil aviation industry for sometime


These planes are the great source for parts.

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## Apollon

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Their (Russia's) goal is to beat the sanctions and get their economy to a level where it functions without any reliance on Western financial systems. The West manipulated the Ukrainian leadership in order to prevent the Russians from achieving those goals. The root causes of this war can be traced to this rivalry.
> 
> Now, their economy may not be huge, but both Iran and Russia have set precedence: You can survive and weather any Western-imposed sanctions. In essence, anyone who trades with them and China can virtually stay out of the Western financial systems. This is the biggest threat I see to the Western financial systems that were created after World War II. It won't be long before US sanctions will be meaningless to countries that are sanctioned because simply they'll have CIPS and SPFS available to them.



Difference is, that russian youth tasted freedom and now runs away from Russia. Who will putin build his giant gulag with, when all young and smart people ran away?

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503469744451723269


----------



## thetutle

sal29 said:


> And yes they reciprocate equally or do you think their nuclear bombs don't work or they don't have second strike capability? So the argument the Chinese ability to fight world war is irrelevant as much as the western ability to fight it.
> 
> Stop smoking that weed man !!


Well somebody said that in case of WW3 Chinese have an exceptional ability to fight a war. I just said that they would to be able to fight any war as they would be obliterated. You may hold the view that Chinese army is able to withstand a nuclear attack and carry on as normal. This is your democratic right.

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## Foinikas

Wood said:


> I would agree with what you are saying if Russia did not have the practice of installing puppet gov. or invading ex-Soviet states. What do you think the Ukrainians are supposed to do when they see Russia invading Georgia? Do you not see the kind of rule in Belarus? The average Ukrainian cannot be blamed for feeling threatened because of such actions.


Yes but the problem was that Georgia had Abkhazia and South Ossetia and they both didn't want to be part of Georgia. 

The Soviet Union changed a lot of regions by giving populations and areas to Republics and when the whole country dissolved,those areas became problems.

For example NKR in Azerbaijan,Crimea in Ukraine,something about Tajiks and Uzbeks I think? Or Kyrgyz and Uzbeks...
Moldova and Transnistria etc.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503468629651824641

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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> Just delete the post.. the other tweets are worse..they show the faces too..


*You are a mature poster, you know the policy on showing gore. It's not hard to click the spoiler button. Rules apply on this forum to us all. No need to throw a tantrum. *

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## thetutle

kuge said:


> you should be the commander of No Action Talk Only....


Wouldn't you agree that this is the purpose of an Internet forum?

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## The SC

RescueRanger said:


> *You are a mature poster, you know the policy on showing gore. It's not hard to click the spoiler button. Rules apply on this forum to us all. No need to throw a tantrum. *


I know.. I just couldn't find the spoiler button..never used it before.. but now I know where it is..

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## Wood

nang2 said:


> Still, don't poke the bear. It isn't about ideology. It is about reality because each person only have a few years to live on this planet. When a person dies, there is no coming back, unlike computers that can reboot over and over. Regardless how the average Ukrainians feel. They mostly choose to flee when the invasion started. Do you see 2.7 million Ukrainians march towards the battle field? In the end, it is always somebody else's blood.


Of course, not everyone can fight. There will always be more people running away from bloodshed than those running towards it. 

Back in 2015/2016, I remember having a conversation about this politics with a group of Ukrainian and Russian colleagues. The Ukrainians even at that time were genuinely worried about Putin's agenda. Luckily, the Russians around them were also not a fan of Putin. Ukrainians were saying that Putin will definitely invade, but Russians were saying that it will not happen. Fear will naturally drive them towards what they see as protection - NATO. Tough luck for them, NATO is not willing to offer protection.

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## Wood

Foinikas said:


> Yes but the problem was that Georgia had Abkhazia and South Ossetia and they both didn't want to be part of Georgia.
> 
> The Soviet Union changed a lot of regions by giving populations and areas to Republics and when the whole country dissolved,those areas became problems.
> 
> For example NKR in Azerbaijan,Crimea in Ukraine,something about Tajiks and Uzbeks I think? Or Kyrgyz and Uzbeks...
> Moldova and Transnistria etc.


I don't know much about other ex-soviet states in the region. Just know about what Ukrainians that I know see as aggression from Putin. It is an existential key security concern for them. Their choices are driven by this necessity and not naivety as some people may think.


----------



## Foinikas

RescueRanger said:


> *You are a mature poster, you know the policy on showing gore. It's not hard to click the spoiler button. Rules apply on this forum to us all. No need to throw a tantrum. *


Hey! Don't be strict to him!....naaaughty naughty! 😋


----------



## Foinikas

Check this out...


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503450422295597058


----------



## Apollon

Looks like gazprom is about to go bancrupt.,it cant pay its bills and obligations anymore









Fitch downgrades Gazprom and Lukoil over ‘probable default’ on debt payments | Upstream Online


Other Russian commodity companies also reviewed by leading ratings agency




www.upstreamonline.com

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## thetutle

kingQamaR said:


> We'd always feared the Russian army but this war has proven they aren't the threat we thought they were, I reckon NATO could walk all over them within about a week, I can see now why Putin is terrified of NATO.


They might be weak, but if they can expand to an unlimited degree because if nuclear blackmail, they they dont need to be stronger, they still get the job done.


----------



## gambit

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Lol wut there's no comparison between Desert Storm and Russia vs Ukraine.


Lol wut. As so often, you missed the point. Note I said '...give China a *new* Desert Storm...' Because you never served, you missed the context of 'new'. So I will explain it to you.

Every war will garner attention and these are always the questions:

Who are the combatants?
What are the technologies, including new technologies?
How are the technologies employed?
What are the outcomes?
Can we replicate the outcomes?
The last time were questions 1-4 with Desert Storm. Since then, no one came up with anything new.

When Xi ordered Poutine to invade Ukraine, he expected the Russian military to *CREATE* a new version of Desert Storm, one that used technologies unknown to the rest of the world and/or uniquely applied that no one thought of before. Take GPS, for one example. Who thought of coupling a GPS guidance unit to bombs? The US did. The world knew of the F-117, but never seen the jet applied to such a scale before. For decades, the world was continuously impressed about Soviet/Russian technologies, so Xi fully expected the Russian military to deliver a new version of Desert Storm and the Russian military failed regarding questions 2 to 4. The Russian military, Army and Air Force, performed as if it was in WW II, contrary to all the glossy brochures Russia have been handing out all these yrs. Russia sold China the proverbial 'bill of goods' and Xi gambled China's future on Poutine. And the Russian military failed. Russia will take Ukraine and make occupation, but that success will rest on sheer numerical superiority instead of innovations.

For the PLA's leadership, the generals are mouths agape with shock, and not of the positive kind. Without the positive answers from Russia on questions 2 thru 4, the PLA cannot answer question 5, especially regarding Taiwan. So the PLA have to go back to the old Desert Storm where it is uncertain if China can replicate the outcomes on what it has today. That is what I meant with 'new Desert Storm'. But I guess you got a few 'Likes' out of that misunderstanding and that was all that mattered.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503465022013546501


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503459377616982023

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503382507961520131

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## RescueRanger

A defused GP bomb being removed from a residential building in Chernihiv. Notice the nose plug has been removed. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502988094164942848

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## Hassan Al-Somal

*Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry *(From their English Telegram Channel)

▪️ Units of the Russian Armed Forces, continuing the offensive, captured Stepnoye. 

▪️ The grouping of troops of the Lugansk People's Republic is continuing the offensive in the north-eastern districts of Severodonetsk city. 

▪️ On the morning of March 14, high-precision long-range weapons attacked Ukraine's military infrastructure. 

💥 As a result of the strike, communication, retransmission and switching hubs were disabled in Fedorovka, Vinarovka, Antopol. In addition, a large ammunition depot for multiple launch rocket systems was destroyed on the territory of Antonov plant near Kiev, from the sites of which Russian troops were fired at. 

💥 On the afternoon of March 14, the air defence of the Russian Aerospace Forces shot down, 2 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles, including 1 Bayraktar TB-2.

✈️💥 Operational-tactical, army and unmanned aviation hit 86 military infrastructure assets of Ukraine, including: 4 command posts and communication centres, 3 anti-aircraft missile systems, 1 radar station, 1 electronic warfare station, 3 ammunition and fuel depots and 68 areas of military equipment concentration.

💥 In total, 145 unmanned aerial vehicles, 1,298 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 124 multiple launch rocket systems, 469 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,047 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.

▪️ The Kiev regime continues to use terror tactics, using the most destructive types of weapons against civilians and civilian infrastructure. 

Earlier, we brought information about the consequences of today's strike of the Ukrainian tactical missile Tochka-U with cluster munitions on a densely populated block of Donetsk.

In response to these actions, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation will take prompt measures to disable the enterprises of the military-industrial complex of Ukraine engaged in the production, repair and restoration of weapons that nationalists use to commit war crimes.

We urge Ukrainian citizens working at these enterprises, as well as residents of nearby residential buildings, to leave potentially dangerous areas.

▪️ A number of Western countries at the state level encourage the participation of their citizens as mercenaries of Ukraine in hostilities against units of the Russian troops. All responsibility for the death of this category of foreign citizens in Ukraine lies on just the leadership of these countries.

We know all the locations of foreign mercenaries in Ukraine. They will continue to be targeted, similar to the destruction of training centres at Yavorovsky training ground in Starichi on March 13. 

I want to warn you again – there will be no mercy for mercenaries, no matter where they are on the territory of Ukraine. 

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing 
@mod_russia_en

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## RescueRanger

Belgians are busy tonight:

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## Apollon

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> *Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry *(From their English Telegram Channel)
> 
> ▪️ Units of the Russian Armed Forces, continuing the offensive, captured Stepnoye.
> 
> ▪️ The grouping of troops of the Lugansk People's Republic is continuing the offensive in the north-eastern districts of Severodonetsk city.
> 
> ▪️ On the morning of March 14, high-precision long-range weapons attacked Ukraine's military infrastructure.
> 
> 💥 As a result of the strike, communication, retransmission and switching hubs were disabled in Fedorovka, Vinarovka, Antopol. In addition, a large ammunition depot for multiple launch rocket systems was destroyed on the territory of Antonov plant near Kiev, from the sites of which Russian troops were fired at.
> 
> 💥 On the afternoon of March 14, the air defence of the Russian Aerospace Forces shot down, 2 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles, including 1 Bayraktar TB-2.
> 
> ✈️💥 Operational-tactical, army and unmanned aviation hit 86 military infrastructure assets of Ukraine, including: 4 command posts and communication centres, 3 anti-aircraft missile systems, 1 radar station, 1 electronic warfare station, 3 ammunition and fuel depots and 68 areas of military equipment concentration.
> 
> 💥 In total, 145 unmanned aerial vehicles, 1,298 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 124 multiple launch rocket systems, 469 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,047 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.
> 
> ▪️ The Kiev regime continues to use terror tactics, using the most destructive types of weapons against civilians and civilian infrastructure.
> 
> Earlier, we brought information about the consequences of today's strike of the Ukrainian tactical missile Tochka-U with cluster munitions on a densely populated block of Donetsk.
> 
> In response to these actions, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation will take prompt measures to disable the enterprises of the military-industrial complex of Ukraine engaged in the production, repair and restoration of weapons that nationalists use to commit war crimes.
> 
> We urge Ukrainian citizens working at these enterprises, as well as residents of nearby residential buildings, to leave potentially dangerous areas.
> 
> ▪️ A number of Western countries at the state level encourage the participation of their citizens as mercenaries of Ukraine in hostilities against units of the Russian troops. All responsibility for the death of this category of foreign citizens in Ukraine lies on just the leadership of these countries.
> 
> We know all the locations of foreign mercenaries in Ukraine. They will continue to be targeted, similar to the destruction of training centres at Yavorovsky training ground in Starichi on March 13.
> 
> I want to warn you again – there will be no mercy for mercenaries, no matter where they are on the territory of Ukraine.
> 
> #MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing
> @mod_russia_en



No mercy for mercenaries? Who will russia send? Their starved child soldiers?


----------



## thetutle

nang2 said:


> Taxpayers could care less. They may feel pumped when they think US is a world leader but it really has little to do with their own private lives. They care more about getting ends meet, getting their children through schools, getting enough nest eggs for comfortable retirement. Few of them even know where Ukraine is on the map.


They do care. before they can get their kids to school and have. nest egg you need to be able to stop russia, or anyone else bombing that school. you can only do that with a good military.



nang2 said:


> How is that really a gift? It will boost US military industrial complex, which produces nothing that regular folks can enjoy, while siphoning off capital from those that actually do. It only boost its power to destroy when it is already the most powerful country in the world.


citizens make money, by woking in Lockheed Martin factories, lawyers make money drafting contract to sell the stuff, ordinary citizens have the opportunity to buy shares in defence industries that make amazing profits. Sure beats collective farming china style.


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## Apollon

I think tge next logical step is a complete oil and gas embargo against russia. Its not in our interest to have even one small connection to this regime. Right now Russia already is crushed out of europe on all fronts. This would be the last piece to build this wall


----------



## kingQamaR

I’m reading, Russia has stepped in the last minute to try to block Irans nuclear deal, fearing that an agreement, and lifting oil sanctions on Iran Tehran will unleash 2m barrels oil day on global market. So now I’m very interested to see of Iranian strong lobby on here if it’s reactions and support for Mr putin remains positive. And if Moscow is successful in its strategy it will be history all over again repeating itself just like india vote had brought in the previous brunch painfull sanctions on Iran lol, and Moscow and Delhi are Irans best friends..,,,, hehehe

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503413904818733056


----------



## Apollon

kingQamaR said:


> I’m reading, Russia has stepped in the last minute to try to block Irans nuclear deal, fearing that an agreement, and lifting oil sanctions on Iran Tehran will unleash 2m barrels oil day on global market. So now I’m very interested to see of Iranian strong lobby on here if it’s reactions and support for Mr putin remains positive. And if Moscow is successful in its strategy it will be history all over again repeating itself just like india vote had brought in the previous brunch painfull sanctions on Iran lol, and Moscow and Delhi are Irans best friends..,,,, hehehe



Its not like tge west needs russia to make a deal with iran. If the EU lifts sanctions on Iran it doesmt need Russia to,do so.


----------



## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503462532954177539



If these are airbus/Boeing/Embraer planes - then they wont be flying long without access to spare parts, maintenance or even manufacturer warranty(with knock on effects of insurance availability etc)


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> I think tge next logical step is a complete oil and gas embargo against russia. Its not in our interest to have even one small connection to this regime. Right now Russia already is crushed out of europe on all fronts. This would be the last piece to build this wall


That leads to further hostilities and war.

That is the idiotic thinking of Western powers who can't share this world with their fellow humans and want everything out of greed. That's the same thinking that made NATO expand and forced Russia to eventually invade Ukraine. 

It's greed. Instead of cooperating,the American and British governments wanted complete dominance. And now WE ARE ALL PAYING HIGH PRICES FOR POWER,OIL AND FOOD.

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## RescueRanger

--
Looking likely a more significant sanctions package on Russia may be imminent including the restriction of Russian ships in some international waterways by much of the international coalition against the Russian invasion of Ukraine. 
--

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## Apollon

Ali_Baba said:


> If these are airbus/Boeing/Embraer planes - then they wont be flying long without access to spare parts, maintenance or even manufacturer warranty(with knock on effects of insurance availability etc)



They also wont get any software updates, which are regulary needed.


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## RescueRanger



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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503481049820581888
Huge news

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> That leads to further hostilities and war.
> 
> That is the idiotic thinking of Western powers who can't share this world with their fellow humans and want everything out of greed. That's the same thinking that made NATO expand and forced Russia to eventually invade Ukraine.
> 
> It's greed. Instead of cooperating,the American and British governments wanted complete dominance. And now WE ARE ALL PAYING HIGH PRICES FOR POWER,OIL AND FOOD.



Yes because cooperating worked so well with Hitler in 1938 to 1939. He really,would have stopped after poland.

I have no problem with higher prices. I pay more if i dont have to live in a shithole like russia where people live like in a giant gulag. 

I have news for you, Putler also wants attack Poland, Baltics and Scandinavia. Next would be balkan and propably even Germany.

We have a saying: slaughter the pig as long its not too big.

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## CrazyZ

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503481049820581888
> Huge news


I have to hear Biden say this before I believe it. I better hurry up on my back yard bunker.


----------



## coffee_cup

RescueRanger said:


> --
> Looking likely a more significant sanctions package on Russia may be imminent including the restriction of Russian ships in some international waterways by much of the international coalition against the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
> --



I also read about that.

But wouldnt the stopping of Russian ships in international waters be considered an act of war by Russia?

Seems like a very dangerous move, if true.

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## p4kistan

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503481049820581888
> Huge news


NATO et al can only block their own waters.

NATO is impotent, international waters they can control or influence will only be around 20% of the worlds waters which Russia probably doesn’t give a sh1t about.

NATO et al needs to realise the world is bigger than you, your narrative is getting destroyed. US has just begun the downfall of the USD. This is a lesson for the world.


----------



## Apollon

Ukrainian refugees now move into russian oligarchs confiscated villas in london

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## RescueRanger

As per CNN security correspondent and White House Presser - Among the assistance that Russia has asked of China includes the supply of MRE's:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503483167109435395
Now you could look at this two ways:
1. Russia doesn't have food for its army 
2. Russia is in it for the long haul and is hoarding. 

Take your pick!

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## Wood

What are squatters rights in UK?


----------



## Apollon

coffee_cup said:


> I also read about that.
> 
> But wouldnt the stopping of Russian ships in international waters be considered an act of war by Russia?
> 
> Seems like a very dangerous move, if true.




Well i think we reached a point where the Anti Putin coalition must make a point. Putin is a coward and understands only force, he is also deeply corrupted. He did not expect the EU to react to hard and with one voice of USA to declare economic war. The pressure must intensify. The baltic and north sea can be locked completly for russian ships.


----------



## coffee_cup

Apollon said:


> Well i think we reached a point where the Anti Putin coalition must make a point. Putin is a coward and understands only force, he is also deeply corrupted. He did not expect the EU to react to hard and with one voice of USA to declare economic war. The pressure must intensify. The baltic and north sea can be locked completly for russian ships.



Rhetoric aside, I just want to know what the international law says about that.

Will blocking of Russian ships in international waters considered as an act of war?


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Yes because cooperating worked so well with Hitler in 1938 to 1939. He really,would have stopped after poland.
> 
> I have no problem with higher prices. I pay more if i dont have to live in a shithole like russia where people live like in a giant gulag.
> 
> I have news for you, Putler also wants attack Poland, Baltics and Scandinavia. Next would be balkan and propably even Germany.
> 
> We have a saying: slaughter the pig as long its not too big.



The fact that you compare Putin to Hitler, shows how much you're into Western propaganda. Russians don't want to invade anyone else. Russians attack when they are provoked. Russia is not the Soviet Union. 

And who uses that saying? It's the first time I've heard of it.

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## thetutle

beijingwalker said:


> Isn't Russia doing the same based on western report? what stopped Nato from getting involved?


Russian nukes

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## Apollon

coffee_cup said:


> Rhetoric aside, I just want to know what the international law says about that.
> 
> Will blocking of Russian ships in international waters considered as an act of war?



Russia can only reach open sea through baltic sea and would pass swedish, german and danish waters there. They can block acess to the russian baltic coast since its their own waters. 

Also so far we have done harder thimgs and russia does nothing in return. We took 380 billion if their central bank assets and all they did in return was hissing and barking.

Time to act tough


----------



## sal29

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503481049820581888
> Huge news



You cannot block international waterways only territorial waterways.

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## coffee_cup

RescueRanger said:


> As per CNN security correspondent and White House Presser - Among the assistance that Russia has asked of China includes the supply of MRE's:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503483167109435395
> Now you could look at this two ways:
> 1. Russia doesn't have food for its army
> 2. Russia is in it for the long haul and is hoarding.
> 
> Take your pick!



Option 3) 
Or China has stated that it will not bow down to pressure and will aid Russia and US, knowing it cant do much anyway, is just selling it as "food assistance" to minimize the public impact?


----------



## cocomo

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503475736203649028

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## coffee_cup

Apollon said:


> Russia can only reach open sea through baltic sea and would pass swedish, german and danish waters there. They can block acess to the russian baltic coast since its their own waters.
> 
> Also so far we have done harder thimgs and russia does nothing in return. We took 380 billion if their central bank assets and all they did in return was hissing and barking.
> 
> Time to act tough



Ok that is understandable, that if countries close their own waters for Russia, it wont be easy for Russia to reach the international waters.

But once in international waters, their ships can not be stopped. Right?


----------



## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> The fact that you compare Putin to Hitler, shows how much you're into Western propaganda. Russians don't want to invade anyone else. Russians attack when they are provoked. Russia is not the Soviet Union.
> 
> And who uses that saying? It's the first time I've heard of it.



No they dont want invade anyone else. Only ukraine. Maybe poland and baltics. But just maybe.

Dude get real. I have a friend in ukraine, i know what horror russia does there and your lame excuses for this war are misplaced.

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## LeGenD

Moderation Alert - I have removed numerous offtopic and No Value bickering posts of different members. Please stick to the topic on hand and try to provide updates. Otherwise give way to members who can.

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## Apollon

EU annouces new sanctions against russia









EU Confirms New Sanctions Package Against Russia


EU's top diplomat accused Moscow of targeting civilians in its war against Ukraine




www.voanews.com


----------



## thetutle

Foinikas said:


> Tell me something,why is it ok for Kosovar Albanians to wage guerilla warfare and attack Serbian police and Army and then declare independence and be given their own country...and when the DNR and LNR declare independence,they are fought by the West?


Because the international freemasonry has decided to destroy the innocent serbs? Poor serbs.

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## RescueRanger

Wood said:


> What are squatters rights in UK?


Squatters rights don't really exist anymore, it was a thing in the 80's where you could move into an abandoned house in the UK, do what the law considered "significant repairs" and be entitled to live in the house. 

Shame the police kicked them all out and arrested 8 people, I guess all the wealthy billionaires living in Belgravia and Mayfair didn't want common folk stinking up their street with hemp.

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> No they dont want invade anyone else. Only ukraine. Maybe poland and baltics. But just maybe.
> 
> Dude get real. I have a friend in ukraine, i know what horror russia does there and your lame excuses for this war are misplaced.


Oh you have a friend in Ukraine? You're an expert on the subject. Well done. I can't say anything else. You're promoted to general.

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## manpk77

beijingwalker said:


> If Russia is really this weak, why Nato poops their pants at the very thought of military involvement?


Only Pakistan knows how to handle Russians. Pakistan has shown them their place in Afghanistan.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503479179559510019

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503479387542458370

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503479572263809031

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## RescueRanger

sal29 said:


> Then please remove all off topic post, this picking up and removing only few posts but not others is not something a moderator should do. Act impartial. There are 100s of posts here which are not technically just updates of the WAR remove them as well. All my posts were replies to other posts which you have cherry picked to remove. Either be impartial or don't be a moderator.


Please don't address issues with a moderator in the threat- take it to the GHQ section for review. Hope you understand. Thank you.


----------



## patero

Ali_Baba said:


> If these are airbus/Boeing/Embraer planes - then they wont be flying long without access to spare parts, maintenance or even manufacturer warranty(with knock on effects of insurance availability etc)


This particular issue will result in the entire Russian cival aviation industry shuddering to a complete halt within a couple of months according to an industry analyst I just read. Even the PowerJet Sam146 engine powering the Russian built Sukhoi super jet 100 is a joint venture project with French company Safran, which is subject to sanctions, and requires imported parts to operate.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503412130296512512

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## LeGenD

sal29 said:


> Then please remove all off topic post, this picking up and removing only few posts but not others is not something a moderator should do. Act impartial. There are 100s of posts here which are not technically just updates of the WAR remove them as well. All my posts were replies to other posts which you have cherry picked to remove. Either be impartial or don't be a moderator.


Do not tell me how to do my job. Moderation is time-consuming matter. I have removed a large number of offtopic and no value posts from this thread by now. You can report a post which you feel is offtopic.

Read Forum Rules and do not comment on Moderation decisions. This is 1st warning.

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## Foinikas

LeGenD said:


> Moderation Alert - I have removed numerous offtopic and No Value bickering posts of different members. Please stick to the topic on hand and try to provide updates. Otherwise give way to members who can.


Legend,I know,but guess who's back on the forum and causing trouble again? Apollon. I thought we had agreed that people on this thread wouldn't call leaders with mocking names like Putler and Vladolph etc. Please delete all of my posts that you consider off-topic,but pull that guy's ear a bit. This time he chose to insult the Russians. The previous time it was Muslims in general,the previous time Chinese,the previous time Persians.

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503491153630486531

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503489746353504262

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## comci

Apollon said:


> Let me answer your question: none. Zero.
> 
> *You are free to name a country that NATO bombed.*
> 
> 
> 
> We stop Russia with mere delivery of manpads and stingers.
> 
> Russia has no working military its only assets are nuclear weapons and we try to avoid a nuclear war. Conventional the russian military is shown as dead. The question is, why is it dead? Corruption?


 
NATO Killed Civilians in Libya. It’s Time to Admit It.​The alliance bombing campaign had a devastating toll—but, a decade after the war, leaders have still not taken responsibility.​ 
March 20, 2021, 6:00 AM

 Journalists and locals gather next to the rubble of buildings in Tripoli, Libya, on June 19, 2011. During a government-led tour, the group was shown damaged houses and the bodies of civilians said to have been killed in a NATO coalition bombing. MAHMUD TURKIA/AFP via Getty Images


By *Joe Dyke*, a senior investigator at the civilian casualty monitor Airwars.


Attia al-Juwaili may never know which country’s laser-guided bomb killed his young daughter. It could be a British, French, or American pilot who struck, but until he finds out, his family’s hopes for justice are forever on hold.
It has been 10 years since the NATO-led coalition dropped the first bombs targeting Libyan strongman Muammar al-Qaddafi’s forces—turning the tide in Libya’s civil war and playing a critical role in bringing down the dictator. The merits of that intervention have been long debated, with foreign meddlers and local rivals and extremists thriving in the vacuum ever since.
But there was a more direct cost. In a war fought expressly to protect civilians, NATO’s airstrikes inadvertently killed dozens. New research by the civilian casualty monitoring watchdog Airwars, where I am the senior investigator, lays out for the first time the estimated number of civilians killed by all parties to the 2011 war—including both Qaddafi forces and Libyan rebels. Almost none of the families left behind have received compensation or an apology.
While NATO insists it took steps to avoid killing civilians, when there were casualty allegations it had limited mechanisms to assess on the ground, with one former official saying they “really had no idea.”
And those seeking an apology have instead found themselves trapped in a nightmare in which NATO itself does not make condolence payments but insists accountability must be sought from individual nations. Yet, even a decade on, countries including the United Kingdom, France, and the United States still refuse to accept public responsibility for any harm they caused.

A family photo of Arwa al-Juwaili taken before she died in a NATO airstrike in the village of Majer, Libya, on Aug. 8, 2011. Courtesy of Attia al-Juwaili, her father.
Juwaili’s family and a few others had sought refuge in the village of Majer in northern Libya a few weeks before the deadly strike, after fleeing the encroaching ground war between Qaddafi’s forces and NATO-backed rebels.

It was Ramadan, so prayers lasted late into the evening. Afterward, the women and children went inside, while the men sat in the August heat chatting.
“Then everything was black, we couldn’t see anything. After the smoke subsided it was clear the second floor was destroyed,” Juwaili told _Foreign Policy_.
The men rushed forward, searching through the rubble for survivors. Fifteen minutes later, another strike killed many of the rescuers.
Juwaili hunted frantically for his 2-year-old daughter, Arwa, eventually finding her lifeless under the rubble. “Thank God her body was not ripped apart,” he said.
The United Nations later concluded 34 civilians died at Majer that night, including Arwa. NATO called the site a command and control node for Qaddafi’s forces. The residents denied this, and U.N. investigators found no evidence of military activity.
“My message to NATO is that yes, mistakes happen, but you need to correct such mistakes,” Juwaili said. “I feel that we were treated as if we were nothing and they did not look back. I hope when Libya is back on its feet, we get justice.”
NATO’s seven-month intervention in Libya in 2011 was ostensibly carried out to protect civilians.
Qaddafi had brutally crushed an Arab Spring rebellion against his four-decade rule and was closing in fast on Benghazi, the last bastion of the uprising. The U.N., fearing a new Srebrenica, voted to intervene to protect civilians.
NATO led a subsequent international bombing campaign, with the U.S.-dominated alliance claiming to take significant steps to avoid killing civilians—employing rigorous target monitoring and delayed-fuse weapons. At the end of the war, its head Anders Fogh Rasmussen boasted of “no confirmed civilian casualties caused by NATO.”

Human rights groups and U.N. investigators on the ground unearthed a more complicated story. They found multiple cases of civilian harm, with a U.N. commission concluding that while NATO fought a “highly precise campaign with a demonstrable determination to avoid civilian casualties,” the coalition had killed at least 60 civilians in the 20 events the commission investigated.
New research from Airwars concludes that this number could be higher still. Using hyperlocal open-source material to assess for the first time the entirety of reported civilian harm by all parties during the 2011 war, it found NATO strikes resulted in between 223 and 403 likely civilian deaths in the 212 events of concern reviewed.









NATO Killed Civilians in Libya. It’s Time to Admit It.


The alliance bombing campaign had a devastating toll—but, a decade after the war, leaders have still not taken responsibility.




foreignpolicy.com

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503453055697698830

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## LeGenD

Foinikas said:


> Legend,I know,but guess who's back on the forum and causing trouble again? Apollon. I thought we had agreed that people on this thread wouldn't call leaders with mocking names like Putler and Vladolph etc. Please delete all of my posts that you consider off-topic,but pull that guy's ear a bit. This time he chose to insult the Russians. The previous time it was Muslims in general,the previous time Chinese,the previous time Persians.


I have a removed a large number of his posts which I felt were unnecessary.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## Apollon

France takes russian paintings as security that french citizens are not harmed in russia. The paintings were part of a lending from russia to france and should have returned at march 3rd.









Франция отказывается возвращать картины из коллекции Морозовых — Известия


Выставка, проходившая в здании фонда Louis Vuitton, завершилась 3 марта.




aif.ru





The netherlands do same and keep the skythian gold exhibition


----------



## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503489746353504262



The world is more opaque now then ever:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503429364599377921
vs


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503424551719424003
It reminds me of this prophetic scene from the 1976 movie "The Network":


----------



## CrazyZ

cocomo said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503475736203649028


Give 'em guns, step back, watch 'em kill each other.....Tupac Shakur


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503479771346481165

Reactions: Sad Sad:
1


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## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> In the late fall of 2021, as Russian forces massed at the border of Ukraine, U.S. lawmakers pressed the Pentagon on why the Biden administration wasn’t sending Stinger antiaircraft missiles to help Kyiv. The option wasn’t available, they were told, because the weapons in the U.S. inventory contained classified equipment.
> 
> Months later, the Pentagon came up with a solution to the problem. By removing several screws, the military was able to withdraw a sensitive item from the missile’s hand-held launcher, opening the way to sending the weapons from U.S. stocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WSJ News Exclusive | How Removing a Handful of Screws Allowed the Pentagon to Deliver Stingers to Ukraine
> 
> 
> Taking out classified gear enabled the military to send the antiaircraft missiles after the Russian invasion began.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wsj.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503159742230941696


Imagine what the classified equipment was. Imagine russia and to fight an emery with the upgraded stinger

Reactions: Like Like:
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## kingQamaR

comci said:


> NATO Killed Civilians in Libya. It’s Time to Admit It.​The alliance bombing campaign had a devastating toll—but, a decade after the war, leaders have still not taken responsibility.​
> March 20, 2021, 6:00 AM
> 
> Journalists and locals gather next to the rubble of buildings in Tripoli, Libya, on June 19, 2011. During a government-led tour, the group was shown damaged houses and the bodies of civilians said to have been killed in a NATO coalition bombing. MAHMUD TURKIA/AFP via Getty Images
> 
> 
> By *Joe Dyke*, a senior investigator at the civilian casualty monitor Airwars.
> 
> 
> Attia al-Juwaili may never know which country’s laser-guided bomb killed his young daughter. It could be a British, French, or American pilot who struck, but until he finds out, his family’s hopes for justice are forever on hold.
> It has been 10 years since the NATO-led coalition dropped the first bombs targeting Libyan strongman Muammar al-Qaddafi’s forces—turning the tide in Libya’s civil war and playing a critical role in bringing down the dictator. The merits of that intervention have been long debated, with foreign meddlers and local rivals and extremists thriving in the vacuum ever since.
> But there was a more direct cost. In a war fought expressly to protect civilians, NATO’s airstrikes inadvertently killed dozens. New research by the civilian casualty monitoring watchdog Airwars, where I am the senior investigator, lays out for the first time the estimated number of civilians killed by all parties to the 2011 war—including both Qaddafi forces and Libyan rebels. Almost none of the families left behind have received compensation or an apology.
> While NATO insists it took steps to avoid killing civilians, when there were casualty allegations it had limited mechanisms to assess on the ground, with one former official saying they “really had no idea.”
> And those seeking an apology have instead found themselves trapped in a nightmare in which NATO itself does not make condolence payments but insists accountability must be sought from individual nations. Yet, even a decade on, countries including the United Kingdom, France, and the United States still refuse to accept public responsibility for any harm they caused.
> 
> A family photo of Arwa al-Juwaili taken before she died in a NATO airstrike in the village of Majer, Libya, on Aug. 8, 2011. Courtesy of Attia al-Juwaili, her father.
> Juwaili’s family and a few others had sought refuge in the village of Majer in northern Libya a few weeks before the deadly strike, after fleeing the encroaching ground war between Qaddafi’s forces and NATO-backed rebels.
> 
> It was Ramadan, so prayers lasted late into the evening. Afterward, the women and children went inside, while the men sat in the August heat chatting.
> “Then everything was black, we couldn’t see anything. After the smoke subsided it was clear the second floor was destroyed,” Juwaili told _Foreign Policy_.
> The men rushed forward, searching through the rubble for survivors. Fifteen minutes later, another strike killed many of the rescuers.
> Juwaili hunted frantically for his 2-year-old daughter, Arwa, eventually finding her lifeless under the rubble. “Thank God her body was not ripped apart,” he said.
> The United Nations later concluded 34 civilians died at Majer that night, including Arwa. NATO called the site a command and control node for Qaddafi’s forces. The residents denied this, and U.N. investigators found no evidence of military activity.
> “My message to NATO is that yes, mistakes happen, but you need to correct such mistakes,” Juwaili said. “I feel that we were treated as if we were nothing and they did not look back. I hope when Libya is back on its feet, we get justice.”
> NATO’s seven-month intervention in Libya in 2011 was ostensibly carried out to protect civilians.
> Qaddafi had brutally crushed an Arab Spring rebellion against his four-decade rule and was closing in fast on Benghazi, the last bastion of the uprising. The U.N., fearing a new Srebrenica, voted to intervene to protect civilians.
> NATO led a subsequent international bombing campaign, with the U.S.-dominated alliance claiming to take significant steps to avoid killing civilians—employing rigorous target monitoring and delayed-fuse weapons. At the end of the war, its head Anders Fogh Rasmussen boasted of “no confirmed civilian casualties caused by NATO.”
> 
> Human rights groups and U.N. investigators on the ground unearthed a more complicated story. They found multiple cases of civilian harm, with a U.N. commission concluding that while NATO fought a “highly precise campaign with a demonstrable determination to avoid civilian casualties,” the coalition had killed at least 60 civilians in the 20 events the commission investigated.
> New research from Airwars concludes that this number could be higher still. Using hyperlocal open-source material to assess for the first time the entirety of reported civilian harm by all parties during the 2011 war, it found NATO strikes resulted in between 223 and 403 likely civilian deaths in the 212 events of concern reviewed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO Killed Civilians in Libya. It’s Time to Admit It.
> 
> 
> The alliance bombing campaign had a devastating toll—but, a decade after the war, leaders have still not taken responsibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> foreignpolicy.com



Can we please move on from Iraq Afghanistan Libya they have no bearing on Putin invading Ukraine. We are watching a large European country under a bad dictator trying to swallow up a sampler democratic European state. nato did not occupy any state changed or expulsions of local peoples replaced by french German English Dutch Italian Spanish etc,


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503491984580825089

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501193117197819910

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503488702613540878

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503289399727075328


----------



## coffee_cup

RescueRanger said:


> The world is more opaque now then ever:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503429364599377921
> vs
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503424551719424003
> It reminds me of this prophetic scene from the 1976 movie "The Network":



I told you bro, I had a feeling that China has given a cold shoulder in the NSA meeting.

And now it is time to sugarcoat it.

I think it is not really the military aid that Russia is seeking from China but more like the economical lifeline. I dont think Anglo-Saxon can do much here, if China goes for it.

Everyone is looking after their own interests. Only today I was reading that the top European retailer like Metro and Henkel have chosen not to close their businesses in Russia. Just imagine that!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RescueRanger

Indiscriminate shelling by Russian forces in Kharkiv:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503492435552444433

Reactions: Sad Sad:
1


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## oberschlesier

Apollon said:


> No they dont want invade anyone else. Only ukraine. Maybe poland and baltics. But just maybe.
> 
> Dude get real. I have a friend in ukraine, i know what horror russia does there and your lame excuses for this war are misplaced.



Why invade Poland? No Russians here, a relatively strong army and a lot of americans. Completely not possible to control the country + very big german economic interest. 
Sorry, this is nonsense. After Ukraine, moldova would be next. Invading a NATO\EU country, even baltics pretty imposible.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## RescueRanger

This article is worth reading:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503497567430184968

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Sad Sad:
1


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## oberschlesier

comci said:


> NATO Killed Civilians in Libya. It’s Time to Admit It.​The alliance bombing campaign had a devastating toll—but, a decade after the war, leaders have still not taken responsibility.​
> March 20, 2021, 6:00 AM
> 
> Journalists and locals gather next to the rubble of buildings in Tripoli, Libya, on June 19, 2011. During a government-led tour, the group was shown damaged houses and the bodies of civilians said to have been killed in a NATO coalition bombing. MAHMUD TURKIA/AFP via Getty Images
> 
> 
> By *Joe Dyke*, a senior investigator at the civilian casualty monitor Airwars.
> 
> 
> Attia al-Juwaili may never know which country’s laser-guided bomb killed his young daughter. It could be a British, French, or American pilot who struck, but until he finds out, his family’s hopes for justice are forever on hold.
> It has been 10 years since the NATO-led coalition dropped the first bombs targeting Libyan strongman Muammar al-Qaddafi’s forces—turning the tide in Libya’s civil war and playing a critical role in bringing down the dictator. The merits of that intervention have been long debated, with foreign meddlers and local rivals and extremists thriving in the vacuum ever since.
> But there was a more direct cost. In a war fought expressly to protect civilians, NATO’s airstrikes inadvertently killed dozens. New research by the civilian casualty monitoring watchdog Airwars, where I am the senior investigator, lays out for the first time the estimated number of civilians killed by all parties to the 2011 war—including both Qaddafi forces and Libyan rebels. Almost none of the families left behind have received compensation or an apology.
> While NATO insists it took steps to avoid killing civilians, when there were casualty allegations it had limited mechanisms to assess on the ground, with one former official saying they “really had no idea.”
> And those seeking an apology have instead found themselves trapped in a nightmare in which NATO itself does not make condolence payments but insists accountability must be sought from individual nations. Yet, even a decade on, countries including the United Kingdom, France, and the United States still refuse to accept public responsibility for any harm they caused.
> 
> A family photo of Arwa al-Juwaili taken before she died in a NATO airstrike in the village of Majer, Libya, on Aug. 8, 2011. Courtesy of Attia al-Juwaili, her father.
> Juwaili’s family and a few others had sought refuge in the village of Majer in northern Libya a few weeks before the deadly strike, after fleeing the encroaching ground war between Qaddafi’s forces and NATO-backed rebels.
> 
> It was Ramadan, so prayers lasted late into the evening. Afterward, the women and children went inside, while the men sat in the August heat chatting.
> “Then everything was black, we couldn’t see anything. After the smoke subsided it was clear the second floor was destroyed,” Juwaili told _Foreign Policy_.
> The men rushed forward, searching through the rubble for survivors. Fifteen minutes later, another strike killed many of the rescuers.
> Juwaili hunted frantically for his 2-year-old daughter, Arwa, eventually finding her lifeless under the rubble. “Thank God her body was not ripped apart,” he said.
> The United Nations later concluded 34 civilians died at Majer that night, including Arwa. NATO called the site a command and control node for Qaddafi’s forces. The residents denied this, and U.N. investigators found no evidence of military activity.
> “My message to NATO is that yes, mistakes happen, but you need to correct such mistakes,” Juwaili said. “I feel that we were treated as if we were nothing and they did not look back. I hope when Libya is back on its feet, we get justice.”
> NATO’s seven-month intervention in Libya in 2011 was ostensibly carried out to protect civilians.
> Qaddafi had brutally crushed an Arab Spring rebellion against his four-decade rule and was closing in fast on Benghazi, the last bastion of the uprising. The U.N., fearing a new Srebrenica, voted to intervene to protect civilians.
> NATO led a subsequent international bombing campaign, with the U.S.-dominated alliance claiming to take significant steps to avoid killing civilians—employing rigorous target monitoring and delayed-fuse weapons. At the end of the war, its head Anders Fogh Rasmussen boasted of “no confirmed civilian casualties caused by NATO.”
> 
> Human rights groups and U.N. investigators on the ground unearthed a more complicated story. They found multiple cases of civilian harm, with a U.N. commission concluding that while NATO fought a “highly precise campaign with a demonstrable determination to avoid civilian casualties,” the coalition had killed at least 60 civilians in the 20 events the commission investigated.
> New research from Airwars concludes that this number could be higher still. Using hyperlocal open-source material to assess for the first time the entirety of reported civilian harm by all parties during the 2011 war, it found NATO strikes resulted in between 223 and 403 likely civilian deaths in the 212 events of concern reviewed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO Killed Civilians in Libya. It’s Time to Admit It.
> 
> 
> The alliance bombing campaign had a devastating toll—but, a decade after the war, leaders have still not taken responsibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> foreignpolicy.com


Please STOP with this NATO Nonsens. This topic is about Russia-Ukraine war.


----------



## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503497223077781505

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Paul2

kingQamaR said:


> I’m reading, Russia has stepped in the last minute to try to block Irans nuclear deal, fearing that an agreement, and lifting oil sanctions on Iran Tehran will unleash 2m barrels oil day on global market. So now I’m very interested to see of Iranian strong lobby on here if it’s reactions and support for Mr putin remains positive. And if Moscow is successful in its strategy it will be history all over again repeating itself just like india vote had brought in the previous brunch painfull sanctions on Iran lol, and Moscow and Delhi are Irans best friends..,,,, hehehe



Why would they need Russian oil even for free, if they can't physically bring it out, when newly kosher Iranian oil is just behind the corner?


----------



## RescueRanger

Kharkiv town centre is on fire:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503499171676004356








Jake Sullivan says US planning ‘appropriate consequences’ to Brent Renaud’s death


Award-winning journalist Brent Renaud was shot and killed by Russian forces in Irpin on Sunday




www.independent.co.uk

Reactions: Sad Sad:
2


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## coffee_cup

RescueRanger said:


> Kharkiv town centre is on fire:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503499171676004356



I know one family stuck in Kharkiv, it is so hard. They cant get out of the city to some safer place.

For now they have water, electricity and internet but no one knows for how long. They sleep with full clothes/jackets on and rucksacks near them ready to move any minute when a window of opportunity opens.

Cant imagine the hardships these people are going through! War is ugly!

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Sad Sad:
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## RescueRanger

*Passionate speech by a Ukrainian volunteer - he has a message for America:*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500580667654131712

Reactions: Like Like:
4 | Haha Haha:
2 | Sad Sad:
3


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## Indian Libertarian

oberschlesier said:


> Why invade Poland? No Russians here, a relatively strong army and a lot of americans. Completely not possible to control the country + very big german economic interest.
> Sorry, this is nonsense. After Ukraine, moldova would be next. Invading a NATO\EU country, even baltics pretty imposible.


I could see them invading Moldova perhaps. Poland and Baltics are NATO states so it’s a guaranteed way to start WW3.


----------



## Paul2

RescueRanger said:


> This article is worth reading:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503497567430184968



Very true, while Ukraine has numerical superiority on the paper with territorials, but they are all very busy with tackling local numerical superiority of Russians who keep strolling in between towns in the South East.

They really need to turn numerical superiority in the paper into manoeuvre denial for Russian forces.

They really need to get more mobile forces to: flush out, herd, localise, and destroy Russian forces roaming freely on occupied territories.

The worst thing they can do is to allow Russia to make a solid WW2 style front to secure rear of its forces, and offload the C&C.

I am sure, Russian generals have now unearthed the WW2 era strategy book, and decided to follow them go the letter.

They have no force to form a front, but they are pushing bigger, and bigger formations moving around a lot, and singling out separated Ukrainian deployments, attacking them WW2 style.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RescueRanger

Kharkiv: Latest footages shows a number of buildings get hit by possible grad. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503500056665673728


----------



## Paul2

RescueRanger said:


> Kharkiv: Latest footages shows a number of buildings get hit by possible grad.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503500056665673728



Not grad, certainly. Something bigger, likely 220mm or 300mm

Reactions: Like Like:
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## comci

kingQamaR said:


> Can we please move on from Iraq Afghanistan Libya they have no bearing on Putin invading Ukraine. We are watching a large European country under a bad dictator trying to swallow up a sampler democratic European state. nato did not occupy any state changed or expulsions of local peoples replaced by french German English Dutch Italian Spanish etc,



That Apollon guy from Greece i replied to claimed at this forum that NATO is a defence organisation and never involved in foreign war. I just busted his lies by simply google it for facts and you tried to blamed me for off topic? People like you are the reason why i left this forum long time ago until now to see if some posters grow some brains, but i guess my wish was too much..


----------



## bobo6661

Foinikas said:


> The point is,why is Kosovo allowed independence,but Crimea isn't? Why is Croatia,BiH helped to achieve independence for example,but DNR and LNR are accused of getting help to become independent?


Becose its not a paking minority or anything it just russians grabbing more lands its not granting anyone idependence ... people on crimenia are russinans thats just a land grab not independence same with LNR/DPR created by nazis with support of putler









Neo-Nazi Russian nationalist exposes how Russia’s leaders sent them to Ukraine to kill Ukrainians


Dmitry Demushkin, a far-right Russian nationalist, has revealed details of how he was invited by the then Russian Deputy Prime Minister, Dmitry Rogozin, to gather nationalists to fight in Ukraine



khpg.org





see this guy : 






Leader of Donetsk

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503504782354440197

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RescueRanger

_Russian drone crossed over into Poland before returning to Ukraine and being shot down by the Ukrainians._


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503493941219442693

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Foinikas

bobo6661 said:


> Becose its not a paking minority or anything it just russians grabbing more lands its not granting anyone idependence ... people on crimenia are russinans thats just a land grab not independence same with LNR/DPR created by nazis with support of putler


Get your facts right. Crimea had majority Russian population. DNR and LNR as well. Russian and Ukrainian Pro-Russians


----------



## bobo6661

Foinikas said:


> Get your facts right. Crimea had majority Russian population. DNR and LNR as well. Russian and Ukrainian Pro-Russian.


So that permits putin to anex other country land ? and to send mercenarys to start a revolt ?


----------



## Solidify

2.8 million refugees have fled Ukraine to these countries
Watch

Reactions: Sad Sad:
2


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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503507044820791304

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Foinikas

bobo6661 said:


> So that permits putin to anex other country land ?


No the invasion shouldn't have happened,but the Ukrainian government
wouldn't settle for anything less than joining NATO and EU and becoming a Western protectorate. It all started in 2014 when the ultranationalists kicked the legitimate government and took over.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## bobo6661

Foinikas said:


> No the invasion shouldn't have happened,but the Ukrainian government
> wouldn't settle for anything less than joining NATO and EU and becoming a Western protectorate. It all started in 2014 when the ultranationalists kicked the legitimate government and took over.


i was talking about 2014 the whole revolt in the donetsk luhansk was done by russian mercenarys









Neo-Nazi Russian nationalist exposes how Russia’s leaders sent them to Ukraine to kill Ukrainians


Dmitry Demushkin, a far-right Russian nationalist, has revealed details of how he was invited by the then Russian Deputy Prime Minister, Dmitry Rogozin, to gather nationalists to fight in Ukraine



khpg.org





yee and after they kicked him did they put a puppet in the government ? no the made new elections ...

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Foinikas

bobo6661 said:


> i was talking about 2014 the whole revolt in the donetsk luhansk was done by russian mercenarys
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neo-Nazi Russian nationalist exposes how Russia’s leaders sent them to Ukraine to kill Ukrainians
> 
> 
> Dmitry Demushkin, a far-right Russian nationalist, has revealed details of how he was invited by the then Russian Deputy Prime Minister, Dmitry Rogozin, to gather nationalists to fight in Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> khpg.org


Oh and the uprisings in Kharkov,Odessa and elsewhere in eastern and southern Ukraine were also by "Russian mercenaries"? And what was Euromaidan? Wasn't it encouraged and maybe even funded by Western governments?


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503508951756849157

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503413232173785092


----------



## thetutle

zartosht said:


> well said.
> 
> This is a picture from 1920s germany:
> 
> View attachment 824123
> 
> 
> View attachment 824124
> 
> 
> 
> Thats the real value of your numbers inflated economy, When it comes down to it, its actually toilet paper.
> 
> real wealth is physical goods. And commodities such as energy are on top of the list.
> 
> these idiots comparing italy and Russia as having the same economy because of GDP numbers have no clue what real wealth is when shit hits the fan.
> 
> Russia got what the whole world needs. The west has only threats and financial blackmail. you decide who will lose more long term.


Well then Iran is one of the richest in the world. Enjoy your wealth. And Russians can enjoy their wealth also now.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503499762389069824
Good thread on Russia close to reaching the culmination point.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


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## nang2

thetutle said:


> They do care. before they can get their kids to school and have. nest egg you need to be able to stop russia, or anyone else bombing that school. you can only do that with a good military.
> 
> 
> citizens make money, by woking in Lockheed Martin factories, lawyers make money drafting contract to sell the stuff, ordinary citizens have the opportunity to buy shares in defence industries that make amazing profits. Sure beats collective farming china style.


Overall, you produce fewer products that human can consume, which now you need to rely on import to get, which is now harder after weapons have used on them.


----------



## Dariush the Great

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503499762389069824
> Good thread on Russia close to reaching the culmination point.


US doctrine? Is that the same doctrine that failed to defeat the Taliban and escaped from Afghanistan like a scared mouse?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
3


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## thetutle

Wood said:


> Don't they have one of the largest tank fleets in the world? I imagine that they have a lot more than what is lost.
> 
> But I doubt that the Russian side will be able to manufacture new replacements quickly under these sanctions.


they've got 15,000 tanks. but I think they dont have the logistics to use them all at once, so they only have as many tanks as they can put fuel in and cooorinate at the same time.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Meengla

oberschlesier said:


> Why invade Poland? No Russians here, a relatively strong army and a lot of americans. Completely not possible to control the country + very big german economic interest.
> Sorry, this is nonsense. After Ukraine, moldova would be next. Invading a NATO\EU country, even baltics pretty imposible.



Yes.
And yet big BS is being propagated about Russia invading NATO countries.


----------



## F-22Raptor

thetutle said:


> they've got 15,000 tanks. but I think they dont have the logistics to use them all at once, so they only have as many tanks as they can put fuel in and cooorinate at the same time.



Total number of tanks is the wrong way to assess Russias posture. Poor logistics, low quality armor and reserve personnel play a huge factor here. Russia can’t keep sustaining losses at this rate and continue on the offensive. Several Generals have stated that Russia is close to the culmination point.

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## CrazyZ

RescueRanger said:


> *Passionate speech by a Ukrainian volunteer - he has a message for America:*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500580667654131712


Harsh words. He should be mad at Zelensky was well for this miscalculation. He has ruined Ukraine.

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## Wood

Foinikas said:


> Get your facts right. Crimea had majority Russian population. DNR and LNR as well. Russian and Ukrainian Pro-Russians


DNR and LNR is not majority Russian


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503466477772582921


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503513849357602822


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> Total number of tanks is the wrong way to assess Russias posture. Poor logistics, low quality armor and reserve personnel play a huge factor here. Russia can’t keep sustaining losses at this rate and continue on the offensive. Several Generals have stated that Russia is close to the culmination point.


American generals in CNN seem very optimistic. But I'm not sure if it is the reality.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502693958752866306


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## Foinikas

Wood said:


> DNR and LNR is not majority Russian


Significant minority then? 🙄


----------



## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503462532954177539


This is the greatest thing ever. This will lock in Russias isolation more than killing 5 million ukranians.


----------



## Foinikas

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502693958752866306


They had 8 years to equip themselves,
now they want an air force and better AA systems...


----------



## F-22Raptor

RescueRanger said:


> *Passionate speech by a Ukrainian volunteer - he has a message for America:*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500580667654131712



I get his anger, but the US is providing huge amounts of weapons and Intel to the Ukrainians. Of which without, the Ukrainians would likely have already lost.

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## Wood

Foinikas said:


> Significant minority then? 🙄


Yes, I think close to 40%. In Crimea, Russians were at 60%. So it goes both ways 🙂


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## nang2

Wood said:


> DNR and LNR is not majority Russian


According to this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language_in_Ukraine?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503176265305632773

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## Meengla

Video shared below. One of Zelenskyy's diplomatic advisers giving a long interview to an Indian channel. Too early to tell what he is really trying to say, minus the required bravado. To me it looks like Israel maybe playing a significant role in a de-escalation @sammuel . Ukraine is still asking for significant air-support-- but backing off from the No Fly Zone request but other support like more powerful missiles and aircrafts; also looks like Ukraine's control of the skies is under grave threat. Ukrainians are in constant touch with Americans [surprise, surprise!]. The Russian position is slightly 'generally more positive' in negotiations. 

I just hope peace prevails. 

*And to the Pakistanis*: Don't let the recent issues with America cloud your judgement. Except for gains for Pakistan's ally China, Pakistan doesn't have a dog in this fight. India, on the contrary, is significantly affected at least in short term in case of a Russian debacle. One would not be wrong to think that a Russian defeat and a Russian becoming more dependent on China is a benefit for Pakistan and at least short term loss for India. 

Anyway, here is the video:

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## Foinikas

Wood said:


> Yes, I think close to 40%. In Crimea, Russians were at 60%. So it goes both ways 🙂


I had read Russians in Crimea were much higher in percentage.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503246355376005122

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## thetutle

nang2 said:


> These planes are the great source for parts.


catabolise a 200 million dollar jet for parts? lol sure go ahead. I encourage russia to do it.


----------



## Vergennes



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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503516731939168266


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## Brainsucker

thetutle said:


> I am too rich to die. There is no need anyway. Ukraine is not my country. They are living on lands stolen from Muslims. There are 450 million people in the EU that will finance this and go fight as they know that their freedom depends on russia being destroyed.
> 
> Also, I, like trump has a bone in my foot and military wont take me.



Well, but Ukraine NEED you to fight for them. You're a tough guy, So you should be tough in battlefield too.


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## Type59

RescueRanger said:


> As per CNN security correspondent and White House Presser - Among the assistance that Russia has asked of China includes the supply of MRE's:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503483167109435395
> Now you could look at this two ways:
> 1. Russia doesn't have food for its army
> 2. Russia is in it for the long haul and is hoarding.
> 
> Take your pick!


Best to be prepared. China has massive production capability in every item.



Apollon said:


> Russia can only reach open sea through baltic sea and would pass swedish, german and danish waters there. They can block acess to the russian baltic coast since its their own waters.
> 
> Also so far we have done harder thimgs and russia does nothing in return. We took 380 billion if their central bank assets and all they did in return was hissing and barking.
> 
> Time to act tough


Frozen. I bet they will be realised in the future. Sanctions on Russia wont be there forever.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503386878321610753

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## Wood

nang2 said:


> According to this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language_in_Ukraine?


I was under the impression that only Crimea had the majority based on some maps seen in the past. Maybe I'm wrong @Foinikas


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## nang2

thetutle said:


> catabolise a 200 million dollar jet for parts? lol sure go ahead. I encourage russia to do it.


Why not? They are free.


----------



## thetutle

coffee_cup said:


> I also read about that.
> 
> But wouldnt the stopping of Russian ships in international waters be considered an act of war by Russia?
> 
> Seems like a very dangerous move, if true.


Looking at Putin the wrong way is an act of war to the appeasers. Bring it all on. this is the time to squeeze russia and let go after regime change.


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## Wood

Most anti Putin Russian voices want this war to continue, but with NATO intervention. They hope that a military defeat would crush Putin in domestic politics and liberate them. They dismiss Putin's nuclear threat as a bluff and do not want Putin to be given an off ramp. The anti Putin voices in Russia warn that if Putin is given a way out of the situation, then he will come back again stronger.

From an American perspective, I think giving Putin an off ramp is not a bad deal. Strategically, keeping the boogeyman at European door step will keep the NATO ducks in a row. All primed to accept American leadership for the next decade or so.

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## PakAlp

Vergennes said:


> View attachment 824168


Interesting map. Russia has surrounded Mariupol (431000 population) and Melitopol (150000 population) cities. Chernihiv, Sumy, Kherson, Mykolaiv almost surrounded, Kharkiv and Kyiv are the next target of major offensive. Once these cities fall then Russia should be able to take hold of East Ukraine.

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## F-22Raptor

PakAlp said:


> Interesting map. Russia has surrounded Mariupol (431000 population) and Melitopol (150000 population) cities. Chernihiv, Sumy, Kherson, Mykolaiv almost surrounded, Kharkiv and Kyiv are the next target of major offensive. Once these cities fall then Russia should be able to take hold of East Ukraine.




Russias made very little progress in the last week. Each day that passes is more destroyed armor and convoys and supply lines that grow thinner. Russian losses are at an unsustainable rate.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503421808736878593

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## PakAlp

F-22Raptor said:


> Russias made very little progress in the last week. Each day that passes is more destroyed armor and convoys and supply lines that grow thinner. Russian losses are at an unsustainable rate.


The amount of tanks and armor destroyed is equal to all of Russian army. Wonder why they are still there and yes I agree they are struggling big time. Will it not be suitable for Russia to sign peace agreement with Ukraine and withdraw but they are still attacking. What is the reality?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503452157219160067

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503496570007957509
Interesting take on Kadyrov's future with Kremlin


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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> Russias made very little progress in the last week. Each day that passes is more destroyed armor and convoys and supply lines that grow thinner. Russian losses are at an unsustainable rate.



Russians lose armour, but Ukrainians lose positions. I see few BTGs being used as sacrificial diversionary forces, to stretch Ukraine thin, WW2 style.

The 7 BTGs group which tried to approach Kiyv from the East took some losses, and then made a U turn straight to Russian border.

Ukrainians tried to hunt straggler companies running around in unimportant small villages in South-East, and lost line cohesion in Marioupol, allowing a cutoff. They only started consolidating their defense stance there when they already spent MLRS, and arty on few assorted routing companies, and lost air defence.

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## Foinikas

Wood said:


> I was under the impression that only Crimea had the majority based on some maps seen in the past. Maybe I'm wrong @Foinikas








I thought I had something about Crimea only but anyway

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## F-22Raptor

PakAlp said:


> The amount of tanks and armor destroyed is equal to all of Russian army. Wonder why they are still there and yes I agree they are struggling big time. Will it not be suitable for Russia to sign peace agreement with Ukraine and withdraw but they are still attacking. What is the reality?



If we don’t see serious advancement over the next 1-2 weeks, then the Russian offensive has been paralyzed. Most of Ukraines largest cities still haven’t been touched. And Russian forces outside Kiev are seeing 20% frontline losses, and they still haven’t entered the 2-3M population of Kiev city proper. Russias in trouble



Paul2 said:


> Russians lose armour, but Ukrainians lose positions. I see few BTGs being used as sacrificial diversionary forces, to stretch Ukraine thin, WW2 style.
> 
> The 7 BTGs group which tried to approach Kiyv from the East took some losses, and then made a U turn straight to Russian border.
> 
> Ukrainians tried to hunt straggler companies running around in unimportant small villages in South-East, and lost line cohesion in Marioupol, allowing a cutoff. They only started consolidating their defense stance there when they already spent MLRS, and arty on few assorted routing companies, and lost air defence.



The Russian offensive is close to paralysis.

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## thetutle

nang2 said:


> According to this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language_in_Ukraine?


so all places that speak English in china belong to England?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503492230148931590

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## Meengla

Wood said:


> Most anti Putin Russian voices want this war to continue, but with NATO intervention. They hope that a military defeat would crush Putin in domestic politics and liberate them. They dismiss Putin's nuclear threat as a bluff and do not want Putin to be given an off ramp. The anti Putin voices in Russia warn that if Putin is given a way out of the situation, then he will come back again stronger.
> From an American perspective, I think giving Putin an off ramp is not a bad deal. Strategically, keeping the boogeyman at European door step will keep the NATO ducks in a row. All primed to accept American leadership for the next decade or so.



I still don't know why some people bring up Germany spending more on defense or that Finland might join NATO or that there will be American leadership in NATO?? What is Europe without America when it comes to geopolitics?? I don't see Germany getting militarized or Finland joining NATO amounts to much when a B-Grade power like Russia is the main adversary of Europe. And even Russia is destined to join Europe before long--especially after Putin. A lot of garbage has been said about how Russia will duplicate the Soviet model of intimidations and conquests. People forget that NATO countries have the American backing and that Russia is a shadow of its former power. Sure, nobody would want to live under a sick Russia. I'd prefer a poor Pakistan or a poor Ecuador over Russia. But then Russia is not the threat as made out to be! 

*Here, watch it and ponder. Try to establish some perspective beyond what people perceive to be their national interests. *

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503533385519714311


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## MultaniGuy

Personally I couldn't care if Russia bombs Ukraine back to the stone age.

Because that is exactly what some western country said to Pervez Musharraf in our moment of weakness or desperate times.

Thats why I have no sympathy whatsoever.

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## Tamerlane

Forget all the arguments. If you want to know about the future, watch the Simpsons. They always get it right.

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## Paul2

https://mobile.twitter.com/general_ben



Watching this guy. Benny Hodges definitely has political ambitions.


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## Dustom999

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496963285865975816
> Seeing reports that Russian advances have stalled


Russian advance was declared stalled by you on page 120 something. And it was 2nd Or 3 day of action.

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## mshan44

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503541496250867712

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## GamoAccu



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## Wood

Meengla said:


> I still don't know why some people bring up Germany spending more on defense or that Finland might join NATO or that there will be American leadership in NATO?? What is Europe without America when it comes to geopolitics?? I don't see Germany getting militarized or Finland joining NATO amounts to much when a B-Grade power like Russia is the main adversary of Europe. And even Russia is destined to join Europe before long--especially after Putin. A lot of garbage has been said about how Russia will duplicate the Soviet model of intimidations and conquests. People forget that NATO countries have the American backing and that Russia is a shadow of its former power. Sure, nobody would want to live under a sick Russia. I'd prefer a poor Pakistan or a poor Ecuador over Russia. But then Russia is not the threat as made out to be!
> 
> *Here, watch it and ponder. Try to establish some perspective beyond what people perceive to be their national interests. *


I don't think that American NATO leadership is important for dealing with Russia. From the American perspective, the most important geo-political enemy is China. Even Putin should know that. Putin's Russia happens to be the only self sustaining Chinese ally. This is not ideal for America.

America has been trying to persuade Germany to cut its dependency of Russian energy and increase its military's spending. The US has also tried to influence Europe's trade relationship with Beijing. Germany has expressed support for Taiwan by taking its warship there, but has declined to fully commit to the US camp. Even if European countries were willing to offer military support for the American effort to protect Taiwan, there is nothing that they could do given their lackluster defense spending. All these failed efforts gave way to AUKUS.

But now, the European outlook has changed. Germany has considerably raised its defence spending to 2% of its GDP along with a $100 Billion Euro onetime spend. Other European countries are also likely to follow suit. Their renewed willingness to follow America will now be backed by military capability given a few years time. This is my view.

EDIT: The person in the video you've cited is a well know peddler of anti-western views. I've not seen this particular video, but I've seen several others from him. If you are looking for a change in current world order, I'm sure his views are exactly what you are looking for. But I'm not looking for it. Canadian interest after all lies with the American world order. Conveniently, even the Indian side is better off with the current world order against that with Chinese on the top


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## gambit

Meengla said:


> *Here, watch it and ponder. Try to establish some perspective beyond what people perceive to be their national interests. *


Yes, the John Mearsheimer school of great power geopolitics where the expansion of NATO is the true cause and motivator of Poutine's war on Ukraine.

Now, some have trotted out two draft treaties where NATO would be limited. Here they are. But why are they significant?

US-Russia draft
https://mid.ru/print/?id=1790818&lang=en

NATO-Russia draft
https://mid.ru/print/?id=1790803&lang=en

Remember, these are only drafts. Never signed. Let us be generous that J. Mearsheimer is correct that NATO was the true fear of Poutine.

Every country have the freedom of association. If enacted, the treaties would essentially secure Mearsheimer's theory and:

would erase that freedom completely, affecting even the great powers themselves.
would effectively make 'might is right' the overriding principle of inter-states relationships.
would so hamstrung NATO that it might as well be disbanded.
It would mean that the weaker you are, not necessarily smaller, the further you are away from that freedom, and if you happen to live next to a great power, you lose that freedom completely. That great power would be able to interpret any potential association you may consider and intimidate you from membership. Every great power would be able to create a buffer zone of nearly unlimited geography because any state, no matter how small or large or weak or powerful, could constitute a security threat.

Even benevolent treaties like climate change would be affected because it would affect a country's economy which would make the country weaker or more powerful which translate to inter-states eminence.

For item 2, the most economic and military powerful state on each continent would be able to dictate *AT WILL* to weaker states. Small states such as Singapore and Luxembourg would cease to exist. On continents such as South America that contains medium size states, wars will be the norm as states need to become more powerful by weakening neighbors via force.

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## FuturePAF

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 824010
> 
> _Russian military activity from Belarus. Source: Motolko
> 
> View attachment 824011
> _
> Source: Rochan Consulting
> 
> View attachment 824012
> 
> POL storage tanks on fire at Hostomel airport March 11.
> 
> View attachment 824013
> 
> Russian attack helicopters in Valyuki, Russia: 38.109926, 50.225098
> 
> Russian Naval vessels in the Black Sea (Russian Occupied Ukraine):
> 32.9861055, 45.2979871
> View attachment 824014
> 
> 32.9687637, 45.2716594
> View attachment 824016
> 
> 32.9903485, 45.2546928
> View attachment 824017
> 
> 30.2075381, 45.2395354
> View attachment 824019


Russians have to consolidate and take the entire eastern bank of the Dniper River (as well as take the entire coast including Odessa) if there is any hope for them to salve this operation, otherwise they seem to have bogged themselves down pretty well in this quagmire.

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## Wood

Paul2 said:


> https://mobile.twitter.com/general_ben
> 
> 
> 
> Watching this guy. Benny Hodges definitely has political ambitions.


Who is he? I don't remember seeing him on TV. Don't think that he can convince people that he will make America great again


----------



## Clutch

RT News

LIVE



14 Mar, 2022 21:29
HomeRussia & FSU

Russia sends message to foreign mercenaries in Ukraine​The military says it knows the location of all foreign fighters in Ukraine and vows to continue targeting them




File photo: Ukrainian soldiers drill with NLAW anti-tank missiles at the Yavorov training ground near Lvov, western Ukraine, January 28, 2022. © AP Photo/Pavlo Palamarchuk
Western governments encouraging their citizens to enlist in Ukraine will be responsible for their death, the Russian Ministry of Defense said Monday, vowing to continue the strikes such as the one that destroyed the Yavorov base and show no mercy to mercenaries.
_“All locations of foreign mercenaries in Ukraine are known to us,”_ Russian military spokesman Major-General Igor Konashenkov said in a statement on Monday. _“I want to warn you again – there will be no mercy for the mercenaries, no matter where they are on the territory of Ukraine.”_
Konashenkov said a number of Western governments have encouraged their citizens to fight against Russian troops as mercenaries, adding that _“all further responsibility for the death of this category of foreign citizens in Ukraine rests solely with the leadership of these countries.”
“Targeted strikes will continue,”_ Konashenkov said, specifically referring to Sunday’s cruise missile attack on the military bases in Yavorov and nearby Starichi in western Ukraine.

RT News

LIVE

14 Mar, 2022 21:29
HomeRussia & FSU
Russia sends message to foreign mercenaries in Ukraine
The military says it knows the location of all foreign fighters in Ukraine and vows to continue targeting them
Russia sends message to foreign mercenaries in Ukraine
File photo: Ukrainian soldiers drill with NLAW anti-tank missiles at the Yavorov training ground near Lvov, western Ukraine, January 28, 2022. © AP Photo/Pavlo Palamarchuk
Western governments encouraging their citizens to enlist in Ukraine will be responsible for their death, the Russian Ministry of Defense said Monday, vowing to continue the strikes such as the one that destroyed the Yavorov base and show no mercy to mercenaries.

“All locations of foreign mercenaries in Ukraine are known to us,” Russian military spokesman Major-General Igor Konashenkov said in a statement on Monday. “I want to warn you again – there will be no mercy for the mercenaries, no matter where they are on the territory of Ukraine.”

Konashenkov said a number of Western governments have encouraged their citizens to fight against Russian troops as mercenaries, adding that “all further responsibility for the death of this category of foreign citizens in Ukraine rests solely with the leadership of these countries.”

“Targeted strikes will continue,” Konashenkov said, specifically referring to Sunday’s cruise missile attack on the military bases in Yavorov and nearby Starichi in western Ukraine.


‘Up to 180 foreign mercenaries’ dead in Ukraine after precision strike – MoscowREAD MORE: ‘Up to 180 foreign mercenaries’ dead in Ukraine after precision strike – Moscow
According to Moscow, the missile salvo destroyed the facilities used by the “International Legion of Ukraine” and killed “up to 180 foreign fighters.”

Kiev officials said that 35 people were killed and 130 injured in the attack on the International Center for Peacekeeping and Security, the official name of the military base near Yavorov. It had been used for years by NATO personnel to train Ukrainian troops.

While Ukrainian authorities insist that no foreign fighters were killed in the strike, several British outlets have reported that three former UK special forces operatives died at Yavorov, and “many more killed within the site than has been claimed.” This has not been officially confirmed by London. Meanwhile, Washington insisted no “US troops, contractors or civilian government workers” were present at Yavorov.

Moscow sent troops into Ukraine last month, citing seven years of failure by Kiev to implement the terms of the Minsk agreements and make peace with the breakaway regions of Donetsk and Lugansk. Russia had recognized the two Donbass republics as independent states just days earlier. Kiev has accused Moscow of an unprovoked attack.


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503444144206888962


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503461948993716224

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## Clutch

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503492230148931590



Just like the Syrian and Iraqi and Yemeni and Libyan refugees you welcomed????


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## Clutch

RescueRanger said:


> This article is worth reading:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503497567430184968



Trust this guy.... The French know everything about surrendering and losing...

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## kingQamaR

PakAlp said:


> Interesting map. Russia has surrounded Mariupol (431000 population) and Melitopol (150000 population) cities. Chernihiv, Sumy, Kherson, Mykolaiv almost surrounded, Kharkiv and Kyiv are the next target of major offensive. Once these cities fall then Russia should be able to take hold of East Ukraine.



The Russians believe they will have won if they take the cities - but that is only the beginning of this conflict

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## Wood

Clutch said:


> Trust this guy.... The French know everything about surrendering and losing...


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## kingQamaR

The ongoing insurgency will drain the Russians economically and spiritually. This is an unwinnable war for Russia.

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## Clutch

RescueRanger said:


> Indiscriminate shelling by Russian forces in Kharkiv:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503492435552444433



I guess taking a walk in Aleppo Syria was more hazardous... #BrownLivesMatter
#BlackLivesMatter

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## beijingwalker

gambit said:


> You guys here support Russia because The Party *ORDERED* you to support Russia.


You helplessly brainwashed mind must be extremely surprised if I tell you that there are a significant number of Chinese public actually support Ukraine, isn't it?

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503499401511251979

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## FairAndUnbiased

gambit said:


> Lol wut. As so often, you missed the point. Note I said '...give China a *new* Desert Storm...' Because you never served, you missed the context of 'new'. So I will explain it to you.
> 
> Every war will garner attention and these are always the questions:
> 
> Who are the combatants?
> What are the technologies, including new technologies?
> How are the technologies employed?
> What are the outcomes?
> Can we replicate the outcomes?
> The last time were questions 1-4 with Desert Storm. Since then, no one came up with anything new.
> 
> When Xi ordered Poutine to invade Ukraine, he expected the Russian military to *CREATE* a new version of Desert Storm, one that used technologies unknown to the rest of the world and/or uniquely applied that no one thought of before. Take GPS, for one example. Who thought of coupling a GPS guidance unit to bombs? The US did. The world knew of the F-117, but never seen the jet applied to such a scale before. For decades, the world was continuously impressed about Soviet/Russian technologies, so Xi fully expected the Russian military to deliver a new version of Desert Storm and the Russian military failed regarding questions 2 to 4. The Russian military, Army and Air Force, performed as if it was in WW II, contrary to all the glossy brochures Russia have been handing out all these yrs. Russia sold China the proverbial 'bill of goods' and Xi gambled China's future on Poutine. And the Russian military failed. Russia will take Ukraine and make occupation, but that success will rest on sheer numerical superiority instead of innovations.
> 
> For the PLA's leadership, the generals are mouths agape with shock, and not of the positive kind. Without the positive answers from Russia on questions 2 thru 4, the PLA cannot answer question 5, especially regarding Taiwan. So the PLA have to go back to the old Desert Storm where it is uncertain if China can replicate the outcomes on what it has today. That is what I meant with 'new Desert Storm'. But I guess you got a few 'Likes' out of that misunderstanding and that was all that mattered.


In the past 10-15 years there has been no tech or doctrine transfer from Russia to China or vice versa so there's no comparison. Russia has their way of doing things, China has another way of doing things. It's interesting that in a thread about Russia and Ukraine you can't get your mind off China though.

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## sammuel

Meengla said:


> Video shared below. One of Zelenskyy's diplomatic advisers giving a long interview to an Indian channel. Too early to tell what he is really trying to say, minus the required bravado. To me it looks like Israel maybe playing a significant role in a de-escalation @sammuel . Ukraine is still asking for significant air-support-- but backing off from the No Fly Zone request but other support like more powerful missiles and aircrafts; also looks like Ukraine's control of the skies is under grave threat. Ukrainians are in constant touch with Americans [surprise, surprise!]. The Russian position is slightly 'generally more positive' in negotiations.
> 
> I just hope peace prevails.
> 
> *And to the Pakistanis*: Don't let the recent issues with America cloud your judgement. Except for gains for Pakistan's ally China, Pakistan doesn't have a dog in this fight. India, on the contrary, is significantly affected at least in short term in case of a Russian debacle. One would not be wrong to think that a Russian defeat and a Russian becoming more dependent on China is a benefit for Pakistan and at least short term loss for India.
> 
> Anyway, here is the video:



_Israel like many other countries that talk with Putin , and try to advance diplomatic talks , would be honored to advance or host talks between the sides.

But it is all up to Putin , and so far he does not seem to be in a hurry to end this war.


~_

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## Iron Shrappenel

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503132350217170953





Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503457163888443395
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503457667452444677
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503459234939297801


That's a lot of Javelins....


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## Clutch

“Cancel culture” hits the medical system as European hospital REFUSES to treat Russian patients who have nothing to do with the war
March 14, 2022032
by Ethan Huff, Natural News:



The Iatros Clinic in Munich is now refusing to treat Russians and Belarusians amid a NATO-led crusade of hatred and xenophobia against all things Russian.

A statement from the German hospital explains that “from now on and until further notice, we will not treat Russia and Belarusian citizens.”

The German media outlet RTL, one of the nation’s largest, reported that the Bavarian private clinic is receiving a hell-storm of complaints against its racism-fueled policy change.

TRUTH LIVES on at https://sgtreport.tv/

“We strongly condemn the invasion of the Russian army with the help of the Belarusian government,” the announcement from Iatros explains about the reasoning for the change.

In other words, because the owners of the Iatros Clinic watched the news and saw Russian man bad, they decided to punish everyone of Russian and Belarusian descent who lives in Germany by depriving them of access to medical care.

Seems reasonable, right? Maybe to corporate media consumers.

In response to a backlash of criticism, the Iatros Clinic issued a follow-up statement claiming that its only intention was “to show sympathy for the Ukrainian people.”

“At that point in time, this thought had not been thought through to the end,” it further stated. “We fully accept this criticism.”

In other words, the knee-jerk propaganda campaign launched by the media immediately following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine caused panic and hysteria among people who believed it, causing them to feel hatred towards Russians and Belarusians.

“We are far from discriminating against or excluding patients because of their origin,” Iatros now Meanwhile, Iatros has donated 10,000 euros to Doctors Without Borders to help support its operations in Ukraine, whatever those might be.

Same people who decried “anti-Asian hate” are now openly hating people of Russian and Belarusian descent
Anti-Russian racism appears to be spreading throughout the NATO world as angry corporate news consumers pour out their Russian vodka, block Russian people on social media, and even fire Russian people from their jobs.

The very same people who screamed and wailed when the Wuhan coronavirus (Covid-19) was linked to China, calling that revelation “anti-Asian hate,” are now on a hate spree themselves against all things Russian because of what they saw on television or from the White House.

The hypocrisy is simply stunning, and something we have come to expect from the types of people who digest and believe everything they are told, even when none of it makes any sense.

These folks fully bought in to the narrative that wearing a paper and plastic face mask would magically protect them from a plandemic virus. They also believed that taking a “vaccine” produced at warp speed for a few sniffles was the best thing they could do for their health.

Now, these people are outraged and plastering their social media accounts with Ukrainian flags because the same sources that lied to them before are lying to them once again – and stupidly, these people are believing the lies a second time.

“The current conditions resemble Germany 1933,” wrote someone in response to the Iatros Clinic memo. “The evil elite have designated our scapegoats, and now we blithely go about doing their bidding.”

“It’s funny how the only people we’re actively allowed, and encouraged, to hate are white,” wrote another. “No more brother wars.”

Leftists Volunteering To Fight in Ukraine Killed After Posting Selfies Disclosing Their Location
Fact checked
March 14, 2022 Baxter Dmitry 37 Comments
Large numbers of foreign leftists have been killed by Russian missiles in Ukraine after posting selfies on Reddit that disclosed their location.
74
SHARES
Large numbers of foreign leftists have been killed by Russian missiles in Ukraine after posting selfies on Reddit that disclosed their location.



As if traveling to a warzone to engage in combat for an army riddled with Neo-Nazis wasn’t foolish enough, the leftists proved themselves worthy of the 2022 Darwin Award by posting clout-chasing selfies on the internet for the whole world to see – including the Russian military.

Ukraine President Zelenskyy announced last week that 16,000 foreign fighters have been recruited to serve in Ukraine’s Foreign Legion, however given recent events it appears the foreign fighters may represent a liability rather than an asset for Ukraine.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503160366792122371

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## gambit

FairAndUnbiased said:


> In the past 10-15 years there has been no tech or doctrine transfer from Russia to China or vice versa so there's no comparison. Russia has their way of doing things, China has another way of doing things. It's interesting that in a thread about Russia and Ukraine you can't get your mind off China though.


If there were no technological advances from Russia, then all the more reasons Xi erred in overestimating Russia. You may not like China being dragged into this, but Xi dragged China into this. The discussion is no longer about Ukraine. We know that Russia, thru sheer numerical superiority, will take over Ukraine. I do not know of anyone in this discussion thinks otherwise. The inevitable coming questions will involve China. Two great powers made one great fv<k-up.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503545410891264000

So likely 18K-24k wounded, and a few thousand POWs.

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## Iron Shrappenel

RescueRanger said:


> *Passionate speech by a Ukrainian volunteer - he has a message for America:*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500580667654131712


As the eagle once said, " number one bull@#$!"


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503506472092979203

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## maverick1977

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503545410891264000
> 
> So likely 18K-24k wounded, and a few thousand POWs.




Fog of war, things will clear up in couple of years, it can be even higher or lower than this .. ukranian civlian death estimate is around 16 thousand so far

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## kingQamaR

beijingwalker said:


> You helplessly brainwashed mind must be extremely surprised if I tell you that there are a significant number of Chinese public actually support Ukraine, isn't it?



Please invade Taiwan and teach these western imperialism a lesson China can not lose

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## 8888888888888

thetutle said:


> No, it means they are delusional.


You are delusional, they are there and can see what’s going on while you speculate.

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## F-22Raptor

kingQamaR said:


> Please invade Taiwan and teach these western imperialism a lesson China can not lose



China will get humiliated too.

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## Clutch




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## kingQamaR

F-22Raptor said:


> China will get humiliated too.



Exactly


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## PakAlp

kingQamaR said:


> The Russians believe they will have won if they take the cities - but that is only the beginning of this conflict


Insurgency will start but Russian will create a state only in the East under the rebels control. It should create a buffer.

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## Clutch

*



*

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503559755213811716

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## obj 705A

Russia sends message to foreign mercenaries in Ukraine​
Western governments encouraging their citizens to enlist in Ukraine will be responsible for their death, the Russian Ministry of Defense said Monday, vowing to continue the strikes such as the one that destroyed the Yavorov base and show no mercy to mercenaries.

_“All locations of foreign mercenaries in Ukraine are known to us,”_ Russian military spokesman Major-General Igor Konashenkov said in a statement on Monday. _“I want to warn you again – there will be no mercy for the mercenaries, no matter where they are on the territory of Ukraine.”

“Targeted strikes will continue,” Konashenkov said, specifically referring to Sunday’s cruise missile attack on the military bases in Yavorov and nearby Starichi in western Ukraine.

According to Moscow, the missile salvo destroyed the facilities used by the “International Legion of Ukraine” and killed “up to 180 foreign fighters.”



https://www.rt.com/russia/551910-mercy-mercenaries-ukraine-konashenkov/


_

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503590918355660802


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## Apollon

oberschlesier said:


> Why invade Poland? No Russians here, a relatively strong army and a lot of americans. Completely not possible to control the country + very big german economic interest.
> Sorry, this is nonsense. After Ukraine, moldova would be next. Invading a NATO\EU country, even baltics pretty imposible.



There were also no Germans in Poland when Hitler invaded


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## FairAndUnbiased

gambit said:


> If there were no technological advances from Russia, then all the more reasons Xi erred in overestimating Russia. You may not like China being dragged into this, but Xi dragged China into this. The discussion is no longer about Ukraine. We know that Russia, thru sheer numerical superiority, will take over Ukraine. I do not know of anyone in this discussion thinks otherwise. The inevitable coming questions will involve China. Two great powers made one great fv<k-up.


China is literally not involved. 100% neutral per official policy. Only free netizens support Russia or Ukraine as individuals.


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## kingQamaR

obj 705A said:


> Russia sends message to foreign mercenaries in Ukraine​
> Western governments encouraging their citizens to enlist in Ukraine will be responsible for their death, the Russian Ministry of Defense said Monday, vowing to continue the strikes such as the one that destroyed the Yavorov base and show no mercy to mercenaries.
> 
> _“All locations of foreign mercenaries in Ukraine are known to us,”_ Russian military spokesman Major-General Igor Konashenkov said in a statement on Monday. _“I want to warn you again – there will be no mercy for the mercenaries, no matter where they are on the territory of Ukraine.”
> 
> “Targeted strikes will continue,” Konashenkov said, specifically referring to Sunday’s cruise missile attack on the military bases in Yavorov and nearby Starichi in western Ukraine.
> 
> According to Moscow, the missile salvo destroyed the facilities used by the “International Legion of Ukraine” and killed “up to 180 foreign fighters.”
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.rt.com/russia/551910-mercy-mercenaries-ukraine-konashenkov/
> 
> 
> _



Moscow didn’t even realise what it was putting out on news, it to has paid mercenaries come from Chechnya to Ukraine 

Latest reports are of Syrians coming to help Russian army in Ukraine as more cannon fodder.

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## Apollon

Ukrainian villagers and their spoils of war

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## Enigma SIG

kingQamaR said:


> Please invade Taiwan and teach these western imperialism a lesson China can not lose


How can one invade what's their own? It's like saying Pakistan has invaded Balochistan.

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## Apollon

More news about the EU special economic operation against Russia, Italy confiscated"Sailing Yacht A" of russian oligarch Malichenko. The ship build in Germany is the worlds largest yacht and valued 600 million €.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...igarch-melnichenkos-sailing-yacht-2022-03-12/


All in all russian oligarchs lost 80% of their property in Europe by now.

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## patero

kingQamaR said:


> Moscow didn’t even realise what it was putting out on news, it to has paid mercenaries come from Chechnya to Ukraine
> 
> Latest reports are of Syrians coming to help Russian army in Ukraine as more cannon fodder.


Canon fodder is exactly what Syrian mercenaries will be, if the Russian army is clearly having difficulty co-ordinating even basic combat operations (let alone multi-domain operations), what is going to happen when thousands of non-Russian speaking troops untrained in these types of operations and environments enter an already confused and chaotic war effort?

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## Apollon

patero said:


> Canon fodder is exactly what Syrian mercenaries will be, if the Russian army is clearly having difficulty co-ordinating even basic combat operations (let alone multi-domain operations), what is going to happen when thousands of non-Russian speaking troops untrained in these types of operations and environments enter an already confused and chaotic war effort?



They most likely see it as ticket for asylum in EU anyway. I would not be suprised if they just use russia as flight ticket and then run to EU border

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## kingQamaR

Enigma SIG said:


> How can one invade what's their own? It's like saying Pakistan has invaded Balochistan.



So far, stubborn Taiwan will not except Beijing rule from mainland. China has the right to invade them as a breakaway region.


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## khansaheeb

Apollon said:


> More news about the EU special economic operation against Russia, Italy confiscated"Sailing Yacht A" of russian oligarch Malichenko. The ship build in Germany is the worlds largest yacht and valued 600 million €.
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...igarch-melnichenkos-sailing-yacht-2022-03-12/
> 
> 
> All in all russian oligarchs lost 80% of their property in Europe by now.


Seems like when some one is at war, grab all assets as quickly as you can as long as they are too weak to keep it, you can take it.

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## Apollon

khansaheeb said:


> Seems like when some one is at war, grab all assets as quickly as you can as long as they are too weak to keep it, you can take it.



Russia is basicly wiped out in european economy. The biggest fish are the 380 billion assets of russian national bank. 60% of their savings and reserve 

Russia basicly is first country in worldhistory that pays reparations at start of the war.

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## beijingwalker

Hong Kong TV: Before the war Putin requested the Russian army not to launch large scale attacks on major Ukrainian cities to avoid high civilian casualties. Russian defence ministry accuses the west of prodding Russia to attack big cities in Ukraine so that the west can put the blame of civilian casualties on Russia.

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## Apollon

Military experts say russian logistics are about to collapse within 10 days.


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## kingQamaR

khansaheeb said:


> Seems like when some one is at war, grab all assets as quickly as you can as long as they are too weak to keep it, you can take it.



Sadly, isn’t that what is happening to Ukraine by stronger Putin Russians nicking Kievs treasure and lands off it

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## gambit

beijingwalker said:


> Hong Kong TV: Before the war Putin requested the Russian army not to launch large scale attacks on major Ukrainian cities to avoid high civilian casualties. Russian defence ministry accuses the west of prodding Russia to attack big cities in Ukraine so that the west can put the blame of civilian casualties on Russia.


Nice try. The first targets should have been Ukrainian air bases. But unexpectedly, the Russian military failed. It is too late to try to salvage face for your partner.

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## Paul2

Wood said:


> Who is he? I don't remember seeing him on TV. Don't think that he can convince people that he will make America great again



A big lieutenant general. A kind of Wesley Clark 2.0

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## Apollon

gambit said:


> Nice try. The first targets should have been Ukrainian air bases. But unexpectedly, the Russian military failed. It is too late to try to salvage face for your partner.



The big problem i see is, how will Putin react when his army indeed collapses as experts predict? He already lost more face than Cher and i guess in the end his generals need to pull the plug

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503625337552445440

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## lamdacore

If the past is any guide, Germany wrote off the Soviet Union the very same way and started Operation Barbaros. Soviets faced annihilation and then geared their economy for war. What happens after a long time was a complete reversal with Soviets in Germany and emerging as a super power. This did not come cheap and Soviets lost almost 15% of their population yet still managed to persevere. Prior to WW2, Soviet economy and military was not strong enough to even present itself as a great power. What this tell us that, in peace the Russians progress slowly. In war, they can truly outshine and use war as a basis to become a true power.

Waging economic and financial war on Russia is going to make a lot of people think....very hard. You are going to see the displacement of the US dollar as the reserve currency in due time. That in itself will be severe blow to the US and once of its own making. China is going to rapidly work on alternate schemes and intoduces new laws making it very difficult for many westerna companies to sanction China.

I dare the US sanction China over it potentially supplying Russia war material. Then everything will truly go to shits with the West feeling it the most.

So, all this propaganda is just useless when there is very little foresight of the future and poor understanding of history. It simply going to delude some people who are only going to get killed as cannon fodder which we recently experienced.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503618378149339138
The Russians are excellent at bombing civilians and committing mass war crimes. I’ll give them that.


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## JX-1

gambit said:


> The first targets should have been Ukrainian air bases


Didn't the Russians launch a bunch of cruise missiles at Ukrainian airfields at the start of the war?


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## Apollon

lamdacore said:


> If the past is any guide, Germany wrote off the Soviet Union the very same way and started Operation Barbaros. Soviets faced annihilation and then geared their economy for war. What happens after a long time was a complete reversal with Soviets in Germany and emerging as a super power. This did not come cheap and Soviets lost almost 15% of their population yet still managed to persevere. Prior to WW2, Soviet economy and military was not strong enough to even present itself as a great power. What this tell us that, in peace the Russians progress slowly. In war, they can truly outshine and use war as a basis to become a true power.
> 
> Waging economic and financial war on Russia is going to make a lot of people think....very hard. You are going to see the displacement of the US dollar as the reserve currency in due time. That in itself will be severe blow to the US and once of its own making. China is going to rapidly work on alternate schemes and intoduces new laws making it very difficult for many westerna companies to sanction China.
> 
> I dare the US sanction China over it potentially supplying Russia war material. Then everything will truly go to shits with the West feeling it the most.
> 
> So, all this propaganda is just useless when there is very little foresight of the future and poor understanding of history. It simply going to delude some people who are only going to get killed as cannon fodder which we recently experienced.



Nope, China completly depends on european and us markets and would not risk that.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503505488759119874
Putin and Russia continue to hang itself

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## TheNoob

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503505488759119874
> Putin and Russia continue to hang itself



Excuse me,
Theft?

What are the sanctions then, what about the oversea russians getting their properties stolen?

The airline companies still wished to do business but couldnt thanks to the swift denial.

This isn't theft, this is tit for tat.

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## xuxu1457

from the country Internet，We can't give up Russia. Russian friendship is very important to China.
When relations between Russia and China were bad , both of us had millions of troops deployed on the border. This burden is too great. We are not adjacent to the United States, we are adjacent to Russia.

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## maverick1977

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503505488759119874
> Putin and Russia continue to hang itself




everything is fair in love and in war… the same way sanctions will keep the money away from Russia and in West. 10 billion lost vs 300 billion .. not a bad deal for the western world

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## gambit

JX-1 said:


> Didn't the Russians launch a bunch of cruise missiles at Ukrainian airfields at the start of the war?


We used cruise missiles against Iraqi military installations, including airfields, at the start of Desert Storm. The issue is the follow up. The initial attack is essentially the 'shock'. Disrupt communication. Induce uncertainty. The Iraqi military structure was patterned after Soviet structure, so once a unit is out of communication from HQ, it would be effectively be paralyzed for sufficient time for the follow up. That the Ukrainian Air Force is *STILL* able to sortie 3 weeks after the first day of the war mean the VKS pretty much failed its mission.

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## serenity

didn't western countries last week just steal all of Russian reserves held in Europe and USA?

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## gambit

xuxu1457 said:


> from the country Internet，We can't give up Russia. Russian friendship is very important to China.


Then Xi should send Chinese troops.

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## RescueRanger

mshan44 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503541496250867712


That’s a decoy “penetration aid” sub munition from the tube of a iskander. These popped up all over Syria too.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503633075036692490

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503633605683200002

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## Apollon

serenity said:


> didn't western countries last week just steal all of Russian reserves held in Europe and USA?



No, it was special economic operation.

That said the aircrafts are worthless anyways. No spareparts, no updates no maintenance.

Russian aircraft were mostly maintained by german Lufthansa Technik. They cut the contract too.

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## serenity

Apollon said:


> No, it was special economic operation.
> 
> That said the aircrafts are worthless anyways. No spareparts, no updates no maintenance.
> 
> Russian aircraft were mostly maintained by german Lufthansa Technik. They cut the contract too.



Yeah what I mean is that Russia is going all out economically against west as well. Whatever Russia owned in USA and some parts of EU is frozen and whatever USA and EU countries owned in Russia is frozen by Russia.

Someone called Russia's move as theft when to be honest it was done after "special economic operation" of west... which admittedly is done after Russia's "special military operation".

The circle traces back to 2013 and before. Putin surely knows much more than common folks around the world like us. Why he chose to make moves we won't know for certain at least not clearly enough yet.

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## RescueRanger

GamoAccu said:


> View attachment 824177



One by one all the glory chasers are leaving when they realise that this is war and not Hollywood or a video game. 

Here is the story of another foreign volunteer from the UK:





A British man who travelled to Ukraine to join the military fight against Russia's invasion says he left the warzone amid fears he was facing a "suicide mission".

_Mr Spann, who runs an anti-knife crime charity having previously been involved in growing cannabis_, told Sky News he wanted to help defend Ukraine because he believed "it was the right thing to do" *but admits it was "an absolute nightmare".*

Mr Spann told Sky News: "It was like walking into a crack den in England, to be honest with you.

"That was a bit of a shock thinking: 'F****** hell, this is the reality'."

Mr Spann said the group expected transport to arrive at the safe house on their third day in Ukraine, so they could collect weapons, *but it failed to turn up.*

More here:








Ukraine: Briton who travelled to warzone to join military fight against Russia leaves over 'suicide mission' fears


Ben Spann tells Sky News he did not tell his wife or teenage son that he was going to Ukraine to "join the resistance" despite the fact he has never served in the military and has no ties to the war-torn country.




news.sky.com

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## Xerxes22

An advanced and proper military strategist wud never have kept 200k invasion force near the Ukraine border to raise alarm and let the enemy prepare their defences.

They had their forces standing for god knows how many months near enemies border doing absolutely nothing.

Russian military strategists are either bullshitters or Putin thought the same as Hitler and began to think being a politician and a military strategist are one and the same.

An army wud only wanted to do what Russia did in the buildup if they wanted to take a beating from their enemy on purpose.

Not just that, giving Ukraine all the time in the universe to shore up defences and put strategic forces where required but they also let them be armed with thousands of anti tank missiles as if they didn't matter.


WTF is this. This is the worst military blunder post WW2 and Iran wudve done 100x times better than the Russians. What a goddamn shame. Letti g ur enemy be armed to teeth with javelins and manpads and expecting an easy invasion. Politicians shud heed to the advise of talented generals and not think of themselves like godly. This is all Putin's fault.

If he were to listen to his generals I'm sure Russia was never let Ukraine be armed with those shipment and launch preemptive massive airstrike before a full fledged almighty SURPRISE blitzkrieg invasion with 300K men. Then Kiev wud have fallen within a week.

Don't get me wrong... I really really like putin. He's one of my favorites. But there's a difference between him and Ceasar. Caesar was a military leader who was well versed on every offensive and defensive tactics ever employed in a battlefield. His campaigns and strategic maneuvering against the Gauls and the optimites will make even the best military men of today's head spin. 

He acted one cold tactical reasoning and left nothing to chance. Not even the morale of one single man among his units. Nothing was ever left to chance and exploited every advantage and then acted very very BRAZENLY. This is Gaius Julias Caesar. There can't be a man like him. I know exactly how Caesar wudve taken care of Ukraine.

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## xuxu1457

gambit said:


> Then Xi should send Chinese troops.


we have well relationship with Ukraine than Russia
but oil， gas, boundary, we need Russia more, We must maintain normal trade with Russia, although we do not quite agree with Russia's radical military actions.

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## Paul2

gambit said:


> We used cruise missiles against Iraqi military installations, including airfields, at the start of Desert Storm. The issue is the follow up. The initial attack is essentially the 'shock'. Disrupt communication. Induce uncertainty. The Iraqi military structure was patterned after Soviet structure, so once a unit is out of communication from HQ, it would be effectively be paralyzed for sufficient time for the follow up. That the Ukrainian Air Force is *STILL* able to sortie 3 weeks after the first day of the war mean the VKS pretty much failed its mission.



On a much darker note: they wanted runways for themselves, and that's why they only bombed barracks on airfields

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## JX-1

gambit said:


> We used cruise missiles against Iraqi military installations, including airfields, at the start of Desert Storm. The issue is the follow up. The initial attack is essentially the 'shock'. Disrupt communication. Induce uncertainty. The Iraqi military structure was patterned after Soviet structure, so once a unit is out of communication from HQ, it would be effectively be paralyzed for sufficient time for the follow up. That the Ukrainian Air Force is *STILL* able to sortie 3 weeks after the first day of the war mean the VKS pretty much failed its mission.


I'm baffled at how badly Russia has managed to screw up this invasion. This is for them what the Suez Crisis was for the British. The perception of Russia as a formidable global power will end with this war.

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## Xerxes22

JX-1 said:


> I'm baffled at how badly Russia has managed to screw up this invasion. This is for them what the Suez Crisis was for the British. The perception of Russia as a formidable global power will end with this war.


What do u think happens when a politician thinks he can be a military strategist? If Hitler didn't play supreme commander Germany wudve won. Same with Putin. What he did from the start was militarily nonsense but everyone is so scared of him the generals didnt oppose his tactics. Leave the task to those who are expert in the field. You are no Alexander or Julias Caesar so don't try to act like them

Don't get me wrong... I really really like putin. He's one of my favorites. But there's a difference between him and Ceasar. Caesar was a military leader who was well versed on every offensive and defensive tactics ever employed in a battlefield. His campaigns and strategic maneuvering against the Gauls and the optimites will make even the best military men of today's head spin.

He acted one cold tactical reasoning and left nothing to chance. Not even the morale of one single man among his units. Nothing was ever left to chance and exploited every advantage and then acted very very BRAZENLY. This is Gaius Julias Caesar. There can't be a man like him. I know exactly how Caesar wudve taken care of Ukraine.

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## KAL-EL

xuxu1457 said:


> from the country Internet，We can't give up Russia. Russian friendship is very important to China.



Well of course you can't my friend,, Russia is your b***h now.

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## gambit

Apollon said:


> The big problem i see is, how will Putin react when his army indeed collapses as experts predict? He already lost more face than Cher and i guess in the end his generals need to pull the plug


The scuttlebutt is that Poutine fired 8 generals. We have no second confirmation at this time so we should not place too much value on this. But what if it is true? We are looking at senior army commanders, if not *THE* army commander, and senior air commanders, if not *THE* air commander. The FSB head is 'arrested', for what?









Putin places head of the FSB's foreign intelligence under house arrest


Also arrested is Anatoly Bolyukh, Beseda's deputy, according to respected author Andrey Soldatov, who said Putin is 'truly unhappy' with the agency - which he ran before becoming president.




www.dailymail.co.uk





Three weeks into the war and still the army and the air force cannot coordinate their ops. Another rumor is that the VKS is afraid of fratricide, meaning the VKS is afraid of being shot down by the army, so the VKS do not fly unless the pilots feel safe. Coordination between friendly army and air force is called 'airspace deconfliction'.





__





FM 3-52 Chapter 4







www.globalsecurity.org





Airspace decon is a *BASIC* capability and skillset. One major factor is that Russian pilots do not fly as often as US/NATO pilots do. Reportedly about 10 hrs/mth. US/NATO pilots doubled or even tripled that. The average training sortie is about 1.5 hr. If you go to the range, it will be 2 to 2.5 hr. At the range is where you learn how to ingress to a ground target, make your delivery, then egress. Along the way, you learn how to coordinate with ground controllers simulating friendly ground forces. So flying 1-2 hrs/week as how the Russian train is not enough. That is just time to takeoff, gain altitude, maybe rendezvous with an air refueler, maybe do a few touch-and-go, then land. This seems to be the bulk of the VKS fighter pilot experience.

Observers are giving the Russian military much leeway, probably too much and that is because of the perception of the Russian military as a competent and capable force, but we are looking at 3 weeks and still the Russians are struggling.

If it is true that Poutine replaced his army and air commanders, that three weeks passed mean the new commanders will have doubled the difficulties since the Ukrainians gained valuable experience fighting against the Russian military. Regardless of how this war turn out, whether Russia withdraw from Ukraine or completely take over, the Russian military will *NOT* be seen as a peer military to the US/NATO alliance.

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## maverick1977

i am of the opinion that blitz will occur and cities will be leveled.. Russia will take over Ukraine by June time frame or so.


----------



## kingQamaR

TheNoob said:


> Excuse me,
> Theft?
> 
> What are the sanctions then, what about the oversea russians getting their properties stolen?
> 
> The airline companies still wished to do business but couldnt thanks to the swift denial.
> 
> This isn't theft, this is tit for tat.



Moscow was warned not to invade Ukraine or face sever consequences 

He ignored it. And now his corrupt mafia abroad who working for him have had there entire assets frozen to put pressure on Putin to back down 

What ever Putin does it’s pointless he can not fly these planes in most parts of the world they will be seized. Guy is an idiot

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## thetutle

Apollon said:


> Military experts say russian logistics are about to collapse within 10 days.


Its hard to believe


----------



## Apollon

maverick1977 said:


> i am of the opinion that blitz will occur and cities will be leveled.. Russia will take over Ukraine by June time frame or so.



Blitz with what? Russia is running out of even fuel

Another precious russian supply line went down the drain

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## gambit

Paul2 said:


> On a much darker note: they wanted runways for themselves, and that's why they only bombed barracks on airfields


If that is true, in my opinion, that is a fv<ked up idea. It is actually more complex than people think. The army has to be in place to take control of the air base. Bombs would not kill everyone so the army would have to go in and either take POWs or kill everyone. Then the army would have to expand its control over the local region, meaning dozens of miles in all direction to provide 'enemy safe' air operations. Think about it, a single sniper with a 308 at a few hundred meters out can shut down the base. Then air controllers would have to resurrect what was destroyed in order to use the runways, we are looking at runway/taxiway lighting, radars, radio, navigation aids, etc.

So if none of the above were planned, it would be better off to hit everything.

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## RescueRanger

*Breaking:* PM of Poland, Czech and Solvania travelling to Kyiv to meet with .Zelensky.

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## thetutle

what if they get shot down?


----------



## Kambojaric

maverick1977 said:


> i am of the opinion that blitz will occur and cities will be leveled.. Russia will take over Ukraine by June time frame or so.



That is my fear. Russia is too deeply invested now to back down without shame. It enjoys clear air superiority and if conventional means fail then it will resort to even more brutal means. Ukraine needs to make political and geographic concessions before both sides dig even deeper the messy hole they are in right now.

At the end of the day the Ukrainian political establishment completely miscalculated the level of support they would get from NATO. Why is a question we will find the answers to in the coming years but they have to swallow the bitter pill now and accept that the Russian army will only become more and more brutal. Take Finland as an example. The Finns put up fierce resistance during the winter war and even though they eventually ceeded Ingria and Karelia to the Soviets, they were still able to come out of the conflict with their heads held high. If Ukraine has to make concessions to resolve this fast and save Ukrainian lives and reduce the economic rebuilding cost of the country, then so be it. They can still end this conflict on a relatively good note right now.

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## srshkmr

RescueRanger said:


> *Breaking:* PM of Poland, Czech and Solvania travelling to Kyiv to meet with .Zelensky.
> View attachment 824228


A shitty move which has a potential to expand the war.


----------



## gambit

JX-1 said:


> I'm baffled at how badly Russia has managed to screw up this invasion. This is for them what the Suez Crisis was for the British. The perception of Russia as a formidable global power will end with this war.


My guess: 50/50 Poutine/Xi.

Cold War 1 was when China was the junior partner. Now we are in CW 2 and now, Russia is the junior partner. Of both countries, Russia have a more urgent military need. For Russia, NATO is the urgent need, but for China, Taiwan can wait. For Russia, it is NATO countries and the US. For China, it is Taiwan and the US. The common denominator: US.

Am an Air Force guy, F-111 Cold War then F-16 Desert Storm, and the more I look at the VKS, the more I am convinced that Poutine and Xi indeed received poor military advice from their generals. Poutine is a spy. Xi is a bureaucrat.

Xi needed to know how would the US respond but this is a political analysis. For Poutine, because NATO is literally next door, the urgent analysis is military. If the US and NATO are provoked, Xi would gain military knowledge of the US at Russia's expense. Their generals overestimated the Russian military. Russia's FSB underestimated the Ukrainian people. The FSB chief is under arrest and rumor has it that Poutine fired 8 generals, which if true most likely contains the army and air commanders. So in my opinion, how did Russia screwed up this invasion rests on both Poutine's and Xi's generals. For Xi, his generals gave him what they think and Xi pretty much ordered Poutine to invade.

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## FairAndUnbiased

meanwhile on the ground, even foreign veterans are running away and telling people to not throw their lives away because this is what they're seeing.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/volunteersForUkraine/comments/tdnmlj

"no air superiority"

"VKS not flying"

"weak, incompetent and easy to beat"


----------



## EvoluXon

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503505488759119874
> Putin and Russia continue to hang itseltheftiggest heist





F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503505488759119874
> Putin and Russia continue to hang itself


Theft????? Actually its west who has just committed biggest heist of century by freezing russia foreign reserve and confiscation of assets & oligarch's wealth

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## RescueRanger

thetutle said:


> what if they get shot down?


Read the message please - *your answer is in there! *


----------



## gambit

Kambojaric said:


> At the end of the day the Ukrainian political establishment completely miscalculated the level of support they would get from NATO. Why is a question we will find the answers to in the coming years but they have to swallow the bitter pill now and accept that the Russian army will only become more and more brutal. Take Finland as an example. The Finns put up fierce resistance during the winter war and even though they eventually ceeded Ingria and Karelia to the Soviets, they were still able to come out of the conflict with their heads held high. If Ukraine has to make concessions to resolve this fast and save Ukrainian lives and reduce the economic rebuilding cost of the country, then so be it. They can still end this conflict on a relatively good note right now.


Am sure we can apply modified versions of this 'pressure' argument at the beginning of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Essentially, you have to analyze your military situation against that of the other powers. If you find yourself in the inferior you might as well accept your fate that you will be at the mercy of the superior power.


----------



## 8888888888888

RescueRanger said:


> *Breaking:* PM of Poland, Czech and Solvania travelling to Kyiv to meet with .Zelensky.
> View attachment 824228


How are they even going to reach there ? No airports close by that is intact ???

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## Apollon

RescueRanger said:


> *Breaking:* PM of Poland, Czech and Solvania travelling to Kyiv to meet with .Zelensky.
> View attachment 824228



Deep respect for that. All three nations suffered decades under russian opression.

In general im impressed by EU. For first time its act as powerful player.



8888888888888 said:


> How are they even going to reach there ? No airports close by that is intact ???



Helicopter or by car convoi

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## RescueRanger

8888888888888 said:


> How are they even going to reach there ? No airports close by that is intact ???


_They have their means. _

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## RescueRanger

Ukraine - Kyiv: A new curfew to commence in Kyiv from 8pm tonight to increase security of the city.


----------



## SIPRA

8888888888888 said:


> How are they even going to reach there ? No airports close by that is intact ???



Safest means would be donkey carts.


----------



## RescueRanger

* Brest:* Belarusian Military Radio relay station R-434 seen moving in convoy - for those who don't know this kit allows you to establish both radio and wired comms relay - it also enabled bridged taps on civil / military communication.

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## RescueRanger

*Bird watchers paradise right now in the skies above Europe! *

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## Apollon

Air Serbia cuts its connections to Russia now too. Was the last connection russians could use to fly Europe

https://www.exyuaviation.com/2022/03/air-serbia-to-reduce-russia-operations.html?m=1


----------



## RescueRanger

Intelligence: Russia has taken to trying to jam NATO plane's radar:​








Intelligence: Russia has taken to trying to jam NATO plane's radar


Russia has been using Belarus as a springboard for many of its air operations in Ukraine, according to intelligence collected by NATO surveillance planes flying over the Polish-Ukrainian border and radar seen by CNN.




edition.cnn.com







Apollon said:


> Air Serbia cuts its connections to Russia now too. Was the last connection russians could use to fly Europe
> 
> https://www.exyuaviation.com/2022/03/air-serbia-to-reduce-russia-operations.html?m=1


They are just reducing frequency - not severing ties:
_*"indicating flights between Belgrade and Moscow will likely run seven to eight times per week instead of the current fifteen weekly operations. "*_

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## RescueRanger

🚨Ukraine authorities issue country-wide air raid warning - Reuters

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## Wood

Kambojaric said:


> That is my fear. Russia is too deeply invested now to back down without shame. It enjoys clear air superiority and if conventional means fail then it will resort to even more brutal means. Ukraine needs to make political and geographic concessions before both sides dig even deeper the messy hole they are in right now.
> 
> At the end of the day the Ukrainian political establishment completely miscalculated the level of support they would get from NATO. Why is a question we will find the answers to in the coming years but they have to swallow the bitter pill now and accept that the Russian army will only become more and more brutal. Take Finland as an example. The Finns put up fierce resistance during the winter war and even though they eventually ceeded Ingria and Karelia to the Soviets, they were still able to come out of the conflict with their heads held high. If Ukraine has to make concessions to resolve this fast and save Ukrainian lives and reduce the economic rebuilding cost of the country, then so be it. They can still end this conflict on a relatively good note right now.


This would work assuming that Putin would agree to any form of negotiated settlement which Ukranians can accept with self respect. As per the French President, Putin has set his mind to capture entire Ukraine.

Given that he still retains the capacity to do so, I assume that he will just keep going with his conquest until Ukraine surrenders.


----------



## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503672809016500224



According to the Ukrainian sources, a Russian General Major killed in Mariupol.

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## RescueRanger

In Kiev, the prime ministers of Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovenia will present a package of specific support for Ukraine: Unclear what this will consist off - PAP

*Literally children - Identifies of two Russian soldiers skilled in Ukraine - Image edited to conceal the remains by myself. 






*

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503677388571488259

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## Ali_Baba

RescueRanger said:


> Intelligence: Russia has taken to trying to jam NATO plane's radar:​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intelligence: Russia has taken to trying to jam NATO plane's radar
> 
> 
> Russia has been using Belarus as a springboard for many of its air operations in Ukraine, according to intelligence collected by NATO surveillance planes flying over the Polish-Ukrainian border and radar seen by CNN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edition.cnn.com



Russians are committing one mistake after another .. there are too many AWACs for Russia to Jam and now they have given away their jamming secrets - what a treasure trove of intelligence for NATO this "special operation" has been!!!

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## Vergennes

Putin sends 2002 conscripts to get killed in Ukraine. One was supposed to celebrate his birthday in 5 days.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503675285576859651

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## Foinikas

RUSSIA-INDIA BEST FRIENDS,INDIA ALWAYS WILL HELP RUSSIA WE ARE BROTHERS!

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## LeGenD

thetutle said:


> Imagine what the classified equipment was. Imagine russia and to fight an emery with the upgraded stinger



Indeed.

USA military budget = 770 billion USD per year*

Russian military budget = 180 billion USD per year (PPP metric)**

*Over 50 billion USD is diverted for Black Projects.

Americans are relatively better funded and equipped for black experiments and creating new technologies by extension.

They will disclose and apply game-changing technologies when up against a well-equipped force. They did this in 1991 (vs. Iraq) and 1999 (vs. Yugoslavia) respectively - won both wars.

- - -

**Details in following source:









Why Russian Military Expenditure Is Much Higher Than Commonly Understood (As Is China’s) - War on the Rocks


Gresham’s Law states that bad money drives out good money, but anyone who has spent time around Washington, D.C., knows that this law can safely be



warontherocks.com







Tamerlane said:


> Forget all the arguments. If you want to know about the future, watch the Simpsons. They always get it right.



Americans have surprises in store for others even in case of a nuclear war. These include unspecified advances in the EMSO regime. They are developing different technologies to fight a nuclear war if necessary. This matter is no longer limited to use of ICBMs. Many are sold to Cold War era notions in this regard.

For perspective, they complain about Russian (and Chinese) ASAT options but they do not tell much about their own and how they can defend their assets in space:









What Satellite Attack Weapon Might The US Reveal Soon? - Breaking Defense


Space based jammers? Kinetic kill vehicles? Ground based lasers? The Pentagon has a space weapon it's ready to show, but it's not clear exactly what it will be.




breakingdefense.com







Xerxes22 said:


> An advanced and proper military strategist wud never have kept 200k invasion force near the Ukraine border to raise alarm and let the enemy prepare their defences.
> 
> They had their forces standing for god knows how many months near enemies border doing absolutely nothing.
> 
> Russian military strategists are either bullshitters or Putin thought the same as Hitler and began to think being a politician and a military strategist are one and the same.
> 
> An army wud only wanted to do what Russia did in the buildup if they wanted to take a beating from their enemy on purpose.
> 
> Not just that, giving Ukraine all the time in the universe to shore up defences and put strategic forces where required but they also let them be armed with thousands of anti tank missiles as if they didn't matter.
> 
> 
> WTF is this. This is the worst military blunder post WW2 and Iran wudve done 100x times better than the Russians. What a goddamn shame. Letti g ur enemy be armed to teeth with javelins and manpads and expecting an easy invasion. Politicians shud heed to the advise of talented generals and not think of themselves like godly. This is all Putin's fault.
> 
> If he were to listen to his generals I'm sure Russia was never let Ukraine be armed with those shipment and launch preemptive massive airstrike before a full fledged almighty SURPRISE blitzkrieg invasion with 300K men. Then Kiev wud have fallen within a week.
> 
> Don't get me wrong... I really really like putin. He's one of my favorites. But there's a difference between him and Ceasar. Caesar was a military leader who was well versed on every offensive and defensive tactics ever employed in a battlefield. His campaigns and strategic maneuvering against the Gauls and the optimites will make even the best military men of today's head spin.
> 
> He acted one cold tactical reasoning and left nothing to chance. Not even the morale of one single man among his units. Nothing was ever left to chance and exploited every advantage and then acted very very BRAZENLY. This is Gaius Julias Caesar. There can't be a man like him. I know exactly how Caesar wudve taken care of Ukraine.



You might consider military buildup (for a military operation in a neighboring country) deep inside your territory but you will have to move these forces to the relevant border at some point and it will draw attention at this stage if not earlier. This strategy will add to your costs as well - lot of fuel will be consumed in the process.

Military buildup near the border is cost-effective approach on the other hand. Much of the fuel is preserved for military operations inside another country in this manner.

Russian force composition in Ukraine is already substantial: 200,000 Russian regular troops are involved along with an undisclosed count of irregular forces such as the Wagner Group and Chechens. These forces breached Ukraine from 6 different directions including through Belarus. Russians have also used hundreds of cruise missiles and ballistic missiles to strike at high value targets inside Ukraine to minimize losses to its Air Force. Russian military operation in Ukraine is well-executed in theory.

Ukranian resistance efforts are commendable on the other hand. Putin assumed that Zelenskky administration is a puppet regime and will fall apart when Russian forces will enter Ukraine and approach Kyiv. He was proven wrong. Not only Zelenskyy decided to stay in Kyiv, he motivated Ukranians to fight and many answered his call. Putin needs to get rid of his current crop of advisors if anything.

Ukranians were relatively underprepared for the war in fact. Ukranian leaders were taking Russians lightly. Misreading of this situation costed Ukraine much since 2014. Zelenskyy administration was also taking Russian military buildup in Belarus and around Ukraine lightly. Zelenskyy probably realizes this error and decided not to abandon his country when Russian forces approached Kyiv.

I have seen some members making fun of Zelenskyy for being a comedian but this man has more spine in him than supposedly well-groomed leaders of numerous countries around the world. Credit where due.

You cannot stop supplies from one country to another unless you are willing to conduct a military operation to this effect. This is time-consuming initiative and will add to your costs as well.

Few countries have sufficient resources to subject another country to military occupation and/or fight increasingly hybrid methods of warfare in another.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503570379133972481
Australian major general has an opinion piece on ABC

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## Vergennes

Russian BTR82A destroyed


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503645881098194946

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503434251139788810

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503681718364131330


----------



## RescueRanger



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## Foinikas

LeGenD said:


> Americans are relatively better funded and equipped for black experiments and creating new technologies by extension.
> 
> They will disclose and apply game-changing technologies when up against a well-equipped force. They did this in 1991 (vs. Iraq) and 1999 (vs. Yugoslavia) respectively - won both wars.


You reminded me a greek documentary from the 2000s when an American guy(I think official,military or diplomat...something like that)was talking about the Iraq War,I think the first war in Iraq,describing how he was warning the Iraqis:

"We have weapons that you've never seen!"

If I find the documentary and scene,I'll post it. I still remember him saying it "We have weapons that you've never seen!"

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## RescueRanger

Foinikas said:


> RUSSIA-INDIA BEST FRIENDS,INDIA ALWAYS WILL HELP RUSSIA WE ARE BROTHERS!
> 
> View attachment 824247
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 824249



Many analysts are concerned that these numbers are highly inflated and that the Ukrainian Foreign Legion is more of a PR coup against the Russians:









What’s the impact of foreign fighters on the war in Ukraine?


Russia and Ukraine have called for foreign volunteers to join their sides.




www.aljazeera.com

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## alimobin memon

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503667226053853186

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503659540474208256

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## Apollon

Another russian super yacht captured in spain 









Spain says it seized a $153 million super-yacht linked to Russian oligarch Sergei Chemezov, an arms tycoon who worked with Putin as a KGB spy


The 279-foot super-yacht Valerie is linked to Sergei Chemezov, CEO of Russian state-owned defense conglomerate Rostec and a close ally of Putin.




www.google.com

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## Foinikas

RescueRanger said:


> Many analysts are concerned that these numbers are highly inflated and that the Ukrainian Foreign Legion is more of a PR coup against the Russians:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What’s the impact of foreign fighters on the war in Ukraine?
> 
> 
> Russia and Ukraine have called for foreign volunteers to join their sides.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com


It could be. They might have just 5,000 or 10,000 volunteers. But judging from the Bosnian War where three sides had a lot of volunteers back in the '90s when there was no internet,the Ukrainians could easily have 20,000 volunteers now.

But then again,like you said,it could be propaganda.

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> You reminded me a greek documentary from the 2000s when an American guy(I think official,military or diplomat...something like that)was talking about the Iraq War,I think the first war in Iraq,describing how he was warning the Iraqis:
> 
> "We have weapons that you've never seen!"
> 
> If I find the documentary and scene,I'll post it. I still remember him saying it "We have weapons that you've never seen!"



Remember the silent helicopters they used when killing osama



Foinikas said:


> It could be. They might have just 5,000 or 10,000 volunteers. But judging from the Bosnian War where three sides had a lot of volunteers back in the '90s when there was no internet,the Ukrainians could easily have 20,000 volunteers now.
> 
> But then again,like you said,it could be propaganda.



Keep in mind how prominent this war is. Good vs evil. Free Ukraine vs evil Russia. No matter where you stand, its a powerful trope to pull people to fight.

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## Paul2

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 824232
> 
> * Brest:* Belarusian Military Radio relay station R-434 seen moving in convoy - for those who don't know this kit allows you to establish both radio and wired comms relay - it also enabled bridged taps on civil / military communication.



What NATO can donate Ukraine which will really help are ground launched antiradiation missiles to keep enemy comms relying on cellphones.

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Keep in mind how prominent this war is. Good vs evil. Free Ukraine vs evil Russia. No matter where you stand, its a powerful trope to pull people to fight.


Stop derailing this thread with your stupid comments.

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## Paul2

LeGenD said:


> Indeed.
> 
> USA military budget = 770 billion USD per year*
> 
> Russian military budget = 180 billion USD per year (PPP metric)**
> 
> *Over 50 billion USD is diverted for Black Projects.
> 
> Americans are relatively better funded and equipped for black experiments and creating new technologies by extension.
> 
> They will disclose and apply game-changing technologies when up against a well-equipped force. They did this in 1991 (vs. Iraq) and 1999 (vs. Yugoslavia) respectively - won both wars.
> 
> - - -
> 
> **Details in following source:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Russian Military Expenditure Is Much Higher Than Commonly Understood (As Is China’s) - War on the Rocks
> 
> 
> Gresham’s Law states that bad money drives out good money, but anyone who has spent time around Washington, D.C., knows that this law can safely be
> 
> 
> 
> warontherocks.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Americans have surprises in store for others even in case of a nuclear war. These include unspecified advances in the EMSO regime. They are developing different technologies to fight a nuclear war if necessary. This matter is no longer limited to use of ICBMs. Many are sold to Cold War era notions in this regard.
> 
> They talk like Palpatine on the other hand: _"I am weak, strike me down."_
> 
> For perspective, they complain about Russian and/or Chinese ASAT options but they do not tell much about their own and how they can defend their assets in space:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Satellite Attack Weapon Might The US Reveal Soon? - Breaking Defense
> 
> 
> Space based jammers? Kinetic kill vehicles? Ground based lasers? The Pentagon has a space weapon it's ready to show, but it's not clear exactly what it will be.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> breakingdefense.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You might consider military buildup (for a military operation in a neighboring country) deep inside your territory but you will have to move these forces to the relevant border at some point and it will draw attention at this stage if not earlier. This strategy will add to your costs as well - lot of fuel will be consumed in the process.
> 
> Military buildup near the border is cost-effective approach on the other hand. Much of the fuel is preserved for military operations inside another country in this manner.
> 
> Russian force composition in Ukraine is already substantial: 200,000 Russian regular troops are involved along with an undisclosed count of irregular forces such as the Wagner Group and Chechens. These forces breached Ukraine from 6 different directions including through Belarus. Russians have also used hundreds of cruise missiles and ballistic missiles to strike at high value targets inside Ukraine to minimize losses to its Air Force. Russian military operation in Ukraine is well-executed in theory.
> 
> Ukranian resistance efforts are commendable on the other hand. Putin assumed that Zelenskky administration is a puppet regime and will fall apart when Russian forces will enter Ukraine and approach Kyiv. He was proven wrong. Not only Zelenskyy decided to stay in Kyiv, he motivated Ukranians to fight and many answered his call. Putin needs to get rid of his current crop of advisors if anything.
> 
> Ukranians were relatively underprepared for the war in fact. Zelenskyy administration was taking Russian military buildup in Belarus and around Ukraine lightly. Misreading of this situation costed Ukraine much since 2014. Zelenskyy probably realizes this error and decided not to abandon his country when Russian forces approached Kyiv.
> 
> I have seen some members making fun of Zelenskyy for being a comedian but this man has more spine in him than supposedly well-groomed leaders of numerous countries around the world. Credit where due.
> 
> You cannot stop supplies from one country to another unless you are willing to conduct a military operation to this effect. This is time-consuming initiative and will add to your costs as well.
> 
> Few countries have sufficient resources to subject another country to military occupation and/or fight increasingly hybrid methods of warfare in another.



Russian missile strikes need to be countered by GPS jamming. Laser gyro INS will not give them few meter CEP, as they have now.


----------



## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Stop derailing this thread with your stupid comments.



Its not stupid its a matter of fact that attracts people from all over the world.

Just because it doesnt fit your agenda doesnt make it stupid 

They are from all of Europe, USA, Brazil, Australia. Good people who do the right thing. 










What impact will Ukraine’s foreign legion have on the war?


The Ukrainian government has called for volunteers to join its army. Will they make a difference?




www.google.com





This article gives a good insight why people chose to fight for Ukraine. Russia being an evil and godless country is one of those points

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## oberschlesier

Apollon said:


> There were also no Germans in Poland when Hitler invaded


Of course, there were. The whole former Prussian provinces of Oberschlesien (eastern part), Posen and Bromberg had major German minorities.


----------



## Apollon

Starving russian soldiers rob super markets in Ukraine.


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## Vergennes

Russian special operations forces suffered heavy losses in southern Ukraine​








Russian special operations forces suffered heavy losses in southern Ukraine


Ukrainian military officials said Russian special operations forces have suffered heavy losses in the fighting near Mariupol, southern Ukraine. Soldiers of the Azov regiment defeated one of the units of the Russian 22nd Special Forces Brigade, it claimed. The 22nd Separate Guards Special Purpose...




defence-blog.com

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## LeGenD

sal29 said:


> I have the exact same issue on this particular thread. If you counter their arguments they report it as off topic and it gets removed. Exactly same issue. I have already complained about it but it has not been taken up. Unfortunately there is not much else I can do except leave this forum. There are literally thousands of of topic posts here but for some reason only some particular ones are removed. I wonder why ? I want to compare the posts that are removed with the posts that are not removed as evidence of incorrect moderation but unfortunately I am not able to get my removed posts
> 
> Please do complaint if you feel this is unfair in General Headquarters but I doubt anything will happen.



Incorrect Moderation? It is easy for you to make claims like these when you do not know how the system works. You are not the only member contributing to this thread; multiple members are involved. Mods pay attention to all reports. Your reports are addressed as well.

Members are allowed to address other posts and there can be branch-offs in the flow but Mods try to keep things in focus. The posts which were removed, were of least value to this topic.

If you want to discuss this matter with me then you should request separate conversation with me to explain your issue; I will oblige on goodwill basis.

Do NOT cry wolf in this thread as in question Moderation activities in this thread - this is not allowed. Some members didn't heed my efforts to reason with them in this thread *before* and left me with no choice but to take action. Want to join them? Please be wise and sensible.

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## Apollon

Ukrainian SOF ATGM destroys russian targets


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## Hydration

Apollon said:


> Its not stupid its a matter of fact that attracts people from all over the world.
> 
> Just because it doesnt fit your agenda doesnt make it stupid
> 
> They are from all of Europe, USA, Brazil, Australia. Good people who do the right thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What impact will Ukraine’s foreign legion have on the war?
> 
> 
> The Ukrainian government has called for volunteers to join its army. Will they make a difference?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This article gives a good insight why people chose to fight for Ukraine. Russia being an evil and godless country is one of those points


imma say it again 
Stop derailing this thread with ur stupid comments and stop viewing the russian people as the followers of satan and the west as angels


----------



## Apollon

Hydration said:


> imma say it again
> Stop derailing this thread with ur stupid comments and stop viewing the russian people as the followers of satan and the west as angels








Russian tank destroyed

When you look at this you can pretty much conclude that manpads and drones make tanks a thing of the past 







The losses that russia accumulates are gigantic.


----------



## xuxu1457

The second batch of emergency humanitarian aid supplies provided by the Red Cross Society of China to the Ukrainian Red Cross Society arrived in Ukraine on Sunday. The new supplies, including food, sleeping bags, and moisture-proof pads, left Beijing on March 12 and transited via Budapest. China's humanitarian aid will be delivered in multiple batches and is worth about 5 million yuan (about $791,000 ) in total.

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## dBSPL

lol

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503440091330535432

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## Mohsin A

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503505488759119874
> Putin and Russia continue to hang itself



Are you dumb?!?! This is tit-for-tat. What goes around comes around. The west have sanctioned and seized Russian businesses so Russia have now responded. Simple.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry (From their English Telegram Channel):

▪️ The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation took full control of the entire territory of Kherson region.

▪️ The grouping of troops of the Donetsk People's Republic, continuing offensive, broke through the defence of Ukrainian nationalists and took control of Panteleimonovka and reached Verkhnetoretskoye - Novoselovka-2 line.

💥 In total, over the past day, aviation and air defence of the Russian Aerospace Forces shot down 16 air targets: 1 Su-24 and Su-25 aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force, 1 Mi-8 helicopter and 13 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles, including 6 Bayraktar TB-2.

✈️ 💥 Operational-tactical, army and unmanned aviation hit 136 military infrastructure assets of Ukraine, including: 7 command posts and communication centres, 4 anti-aircraft missile systems, 3 multiple launch rocket systems, 4 radar stations for reconnaissance, target illumination and targeting of S-300 anti-aircraft missile system, 1 electronic warfare station, 4 ammunition and fuel depots and 72 areas of military equipment concentration.

💥 Three hangars containing 4 Ukrainian Su-25 assault aircraft, 1 Mi-24 and 5 Mi-8 helicopters were destroyed at a military airfield near Kramatorsk.

💥 In total, 156 unmanned aerial vehicles, 1,306 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 127 multiple launch rocket systems, 471 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,054 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.

💥 On the evening of March 14, units of the Russian Airborne Troops captured a strong point of nationalists and foreign mercenaries near Guta-Mezhigorskaya.

▪️Russian paratroopers seized 10 American-made Javelin anti-tank missile systems and a number of other weapons supplied by Western countries to Ukraine.

▪️All seized Javelin anti-tank missile systems and other foreign weapons are handed over to the units of the People's Militia of the Donetsk and Lugansk people's republics.


#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing
@mod_russia_en

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## Enigma SIG

dBSPL said:


> lol
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503440091330535432


In Pakistan we have a saying which roughly translates to: A watermelon getting it's colors by seeing other watermelons"

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503683882868166658
Russian Ministry of Defense: Russian armed forces have taken full control of the entire territory of the Kherson region

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## CrazyZ

dBSPL said:


> lol
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503440091330535432


He should put a Napoléon style hat on to complete the shoot.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503677579315798021


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503671381766062086

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## Apollon

Another russian convoy destroyed

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503683882868166658
> Russian Ministry of Defense: Russian armed forces have taken full control of the entire territory of the Kherson region



That column was destroyed/abandoned during the first day of the invasion,there were pictures/videos shoot back then.


----------



## LeGenD

sal29 said:


> Please do not issue threats like if I want to join other members in censorship. I do not heed to threats.
> 
> I have already created a complaint in General Headquarters regarding this issue and all I did in my previous post was encourage other members who are facing similar issue to do the same and complaint as per forum rules nothing more nothing less.


What threats I issued to you? I even gave you the option to discuss your issue separately with me in good faith but you are interested in creating a scene instead. Shame.

*Commenting on Management decisions*

Any protest or questions on management decisions should be done at the GHQ section or via communication to contact@defence.pk email if the member is already banned.

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## sur

sur said:


> *2015*​
> Azov funding Banned:
> View attachment 824065
> 
> 
> (src) (src)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *2016*​Under *pressure from Pentagon*:
> Ban removed:
> 
> View attachment 824066
> 
> (src) (src)
> .



Ukrainians allege that Russia has the new-Nazis too, and *Putin admitted they do* in a TV statement. 
But Putin said neo-Nazi-fascists in Rus have not made it into the power circles, as opposed to Ukraine where they are in power circles.

There are numerous samples if you dig through some of following tweet-threads.

I'll post a few (text in black is translation of tweets or excerpts from articles):
---------------


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503052117522759682

Ukrainian police officer Artem Bonov instructing dozens of young Nazis from the Azov Battalion in a course to join the Ukrainian police, in the very building of the Main Directorate of the Ministry of the Interior of Ukraine in Kiev.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498134126540562434

Danil Lyashuk of the Tornado Battalion, a Nazi battalion dissolved after being discovered with videos on their cell phones raping babies in front of their mothers in Donbass.

Danil went from the Tornado Battalion to the police... and ended up going from a Nazi to a Daesh jihadist in Syria.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498134523472658439


Zelensky, the "Jewish" (Zionist) president awarding the title of National Hero of Ukraine with the Order of the Golden Star to Dmytro Kotsyubail, leader of the Nazi Pravy Sektor militia.

Nazi assassins being awarded as heroes, that is the "justice" of the Kiev regime.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498141568640983050
A Ukrainian state politician, Bohdan Yatsikovskiy, "sings" an antisemitic song in public in 2020:

«The Jew is crying and says: "Please don't hit me", in the garden, in the quiet corner, a gallows is waiting for him (the Jew)»


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498483076527276034

Donbas children will be holed up in basements by Ukrainian Nazi govt:


https://twitter.com/MarkSleboda1/status/1504110996067176456




_Australian who killed 51 in New Zealand mosques, himself wrote in his manifesto that he travelled to Ukraine (although investigators claim they could not find any evidence of his travel to Ukraine), and had has his following in Ukraine after his killings_:

Ukraine's secret service says it has arrested a network of neo-Nazi admirers of the Christchurch terrorist Brenton Tarrant, who were publishing the gunman's so-called manifesto in a bid to stoke white nationalist terrorism.

The Security Service of Ukraine, or SBU, said it had carried out two simultaneous raids on premises Wednesday in Kyiv and Kharkiv, Ukraine's second-largest city, where the group was printing illegal extremist literature. Guns, explosive devices, ammunition and Nazi paraphernalia were also seized during the raids.

The texts were then distributed at underground meetings and "theme parties", as well as on Telegram groups with thousands of members.










Ukraine's Secret Service Busts Neo-Nazi Cell Inspired By Christchurch Shooter


The group was printing extremist literature and stockpiling guns, explosive devices and Nazi paraphernalia.




www.vice.com








Ukraine is a go-to for White Racially Motivated (*WRM*) from all over the world, it seems:
(source = "Texas Domestic Terrorism Threat Assessment" = https://www.dps.texas.gov/sites/default/files/documents/director_staff/media_and_communications/2020/txterrorthreatassessment.pdf)










.
.
.

Allegations of Canadian troops training neo-Nazis and war criminals sparks military review​

(Excerpts from the source = https://ottawacitizen.com/news/nati...azis-and-war-criminals-sparks-military-review)
The review follows *concerns raised by Jewish groups of the alleged involvement of Canadian troops in training neo-Nazis in Ukraine* as well as warnings by soldiers last year that some Iraqis who have received instruction from Canada were involved in torture and rape.

The review comes as a* Jewish group in Ukraine is highlighting a new video of Ukrainian paratroopers singing a song to honour Stepan Bandera*. Bandera was a anti-Semite and Nazi collaborator whose organization is linked to the murder of more than 100,000 Jews and Poles during the Second World War. He is revered in Ukrainian nationalist and far-right circles.

The *Canadian military was warned in 2015 before starting its Ukraine training mission* about the dangers of the far-right within the Ukrainian military ranks, *but the senior leadership largely ignored those concerns*.

On Monday, this newspaper revealed that *in 2018 Canadian officials met with members of the Azov* Battalion, a Ukrainian unit linked to *neo-Nazis*. The officers and diplomats *didn’t denounce the unit* but were instead concerned the media would expose details of the get-together. The Canadians allowed themselves to be photographed with battalion members, which the Azov Battalion then used for its propaganda purposes.

In September a report from an institute at George Washington University in the United States revealed that Ukrainian soldiers with links to neo-Nazi movements, such as *Azov, boasted they received training from Canada and other NATO* countries.

In the past, senior defence and Canadian Forces leaders have been reluctant to condemn the glorification of Nazi collaborators in both Latvia and Ukraine, two countries where Canadian troops are conducting training.

In September 2019* Latvian Minister of Defence Artis Pabriks publicly praised members of the Latvian SS who fought for the Nazis*, pointing out they are “the pride of the Latvian people and of the state” and Latvia would not “allow anyone to discredit their memory.”

Then-*defence minister Harjit Sajjan, a close friend of Pabriks, refused to condemn *the glorification of the SS unit and Canadian generals remained silent. The Latvian SS included those who had been involved in the murder of Jews during the Holocaust.

*Jewish groups, however, condemned Pabriks* comments. “Given the fact that the (Latvian SS) fought for a victory of the Third Reich, the most genocidal regime in history, and that among those serving in it were active participants in the mass murder of Latvian Jewry, as well as of German and Austrian Jews deported by the Nazis to Riga
(.)
.
.
.

From horse's mouth; Zelensky during his stand up comedy: 
"As for me I am learning English to forget Russian, *with the help of American mercenaries*; they're all over the place. Today, our president, the most important one, Barack Obama, has promised that *we will join NATO soon, as an American henchman [criminal subordinate]*, of course. If you can, please send me Hitler's book 'Mein Kampf'. They are sold out here. Sometimes I do morning exercise on the balcony, I do like this from the heart to the sun... [makes Hitler's hand gesture]"

(source)







Answer to the rhetoric that _how can Ukrainians be neo-Nazi when their president is Jewish_?




(.)
.
.
.
.
.

Ukrainian TV broadcasting (a journalist's?) call for killing of Russian children (src1) (src2) (src3).

An arm of Government of Ukraine claiming genetic superiority (src tweet from official acc) (src2) - preserved screengrab in case they delete it:




EDIT: as feared, they deleted this tweet thread 
But archived here.

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## reflecthofgeismar

RescueRanger said:


> As per CNN security correspondent and White House Presser - Among the assistance that Russia has asked of China includes the supply of MRE's:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503483167109435395
> Now you could look at this two ways:
> 1. Russia doesn't have food for its army
> 2. Russia is in it for the long haul and is hoarding.
> 
> Take your pick!



It's all WW2 again! 
Without Soviet blood = no win for West.
Without western support (including fronts and bombing German industry) = no win for Soviets.


lamdacore said:


> If the past is any guide, Germany wrote off the Soviet Union the very same way and started Operation Barbaros. Soviets faced annihilation and then geared their economy for war. What happens after a long time was a complete reversal with Soviets in Germany and emerging as a super power. This did not come cheap and Soviets lost almost 15% of their population yet still managed to persevere. Prior to WW2, Soviet economy and military was not strong enough to even present itself as a great power. What this tell us that, in peace the Russians progress slowly. In war, they can truly outshine and use war as a basis to become a true power.
> 
> Waging economic and financial war on Russia is going to make a lot of people think....very hard. You are going to see the displacement of the US dollar as the reserve currency in due time. That in itself will be severe blow to the US and once of its own making. China is going to rapidly work on alternate schemes and intoduces new laws making it very difficult for many westerna companies to sanction China.
> 
> I dare the US sanction China over it potentially supplying Russia war material. Then everything will truly go to shits with the West feeling it the most.
> 
> So, all this propaganda is just useless when there is very little foresight of the future and poor understanding of history. It simply going to delude some people who are only going to get killed as cannon fodder which we recently experienced.



Germany had very weak allies.
Very bad strategies and lead by a maniac who had sometimes luck and this luck left him, like a gambler loses his luck one night when he wants too much.
Soviet Russia would have cease to exist when no help from the outside.
I don't even talk about the masses of tanks, planes etc. but about normal stuff which you need for your OWN production of war resources and especially support your own stuff.
So Germany was 99% beaten by Soviet blood in support with Western Allies help.
In the end I think Russia will win the conventionally part of that war but not a conflict against the insurgents except they will do it like in Chechnya or Syria but THEN even China and India will not support them anymore.
So, they will go on the table and let a western Ukraine as NEUTRAL buffer state.

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## RescueRanger

_We've all heard of the tea being fantastic_, this time the Ukrainians have a fantastic Kava (Coffee) waiting for Russians.

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## Foinikas

sur said:


> Ukrainians allege that Russia has the new-Nazis too, and *Putin admitted they do* in a TV statement.
> But Putin said neo-Nazi-fascists in Rus have not made it into the power circles, as opposed to Ukraine where they are in power circles.
> 
> There are numerous samples if you dig through some of following tweet-threads.
> 
> I'll post a few (text in black is translation of tweets or excerpts from articles):
> ---------------
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503052117522759682
> 
> Ukrainian police officer Artem Bonov instructing dozens of young Nazis from the Azov Battalion in a course to join the Ukrainian police, in the very building of the Main Directorate of the Ministry of the Interior of Ukraine in Kiev.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498134126540562434
> 
> Danil Lyashuk of the Tornado Battalion, a Nazi battalion dissolved after being discovered with videos on their cell phones raping babies in front of their mothers in Donbass.
> 
> Danil went from the Tornado Battalion to the police... and ended up going from a Nazi to a Daesh jihadist in Syria.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498134523472658439
> 
> Zelensky, the "Jewish" (Zionist) president awarding the title of National Hero of Ukraine with the Order of the Golden Star to Dmytro Kotsyubail, leader of the Nazi Pravy Sektor militia.
> 
> Nazi assassins being awarded as heroes, that is the "justice" of the Kiev regime.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498141568640983050
> A Ukrainian state politician, Bohdan Yatsikovskiy, "sings" an antisemitic song in public in 2020:
> 
> «The Jew is crying and says: "Please don't hit me", in the garden, in the quiet corner, a gallows is waiting for him (the Jew)»
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498483076527276034
> 
> 
> _Australian who killed 51 in New Zealand mosques, himself wrote in his manifesto that he travelled to Ukraine (although investigators claim they could not find any evidence of his travel to Ukraine), and had has his following in Ukraine after his killings_:
> 
> Ukraine's secret service says it has arrested a network of neo-Nazi admirers of the Christchurch terrorist Brenton Tarrant, who were publishing the gunman's so-called manifesto in a bid to stoke white nationalist terrorism.
> 
> The Security Service of Ukraine, or SBU, said it had carried out two simultaneous raids on premises Wednesday in Kyiv and Kharkiv, Ukraine's second-largest city, where the group was printing illegal extremist literature. Guns, explosive devices, ammunition and Nazi paraphernalia were also seized during the raids.
> 
> The texts were then distributed at underground meetings and "theme parties", as well as on Telegram groups with thousands of members.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine's Secret Service Busts Neo-Nazi Cell Inspired By Christchurch Shooter
> 
> 
> The group was printing extremist literature and stockpiling guns, explosive devices and Nazi paraphernalia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.vice.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine is a go-to for White Racially Motivated (*WRM*) from all over the world, it seems:
> (source = https://www.dps.texas.gov/sites/def...munications/2020/txterrorthreatassessment.pdf)
> 
> 
> View attachment 824324


That post was shocking. People need to see this.

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## jamal18

Professor John Mearsheimer on the culpability for the war.

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## RescueRanger

sur said:


> Ukrainians allege that Russia has the new-Nazis too, and *Putin admitted they do* in a TV statement.
> But Putin said neo-Nazi-fascists in Rus have not made it into the power circles, as opposed to Ukraine where they are in power circles.
> 
> There are numerous samples if you dig through some of following tweet-threads.
> 
> I'll post a few (text in black is translation of tweets or excerpts from articles):
> ---------------
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503052117522759682
> 
> Ukrainian police officer Artem Bonov instructing dozens of young Nazis from the Azov Battalion in a course to join the Ukrainian police, in the very building of the Main Directorate of the Ministry of the Interior of Ukraine in Kiev.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498134126540562434
> 
> Danil Lyashuk of the Tornado Battalion, a Nazi battalion dissolved after being discovered with videos on their cell phones raping babies in front of their mothers in Donbass.
> 
> Danil went from the Tornado Battalion to the police... and ended up going from a Nazi to a Daesh jihadist in Syria.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498134523472658439
> 
> Zelensky, the "Jewish" (Zionist) president awarding the title of National Hero of Ukraine with the Order of the Golden Star to Dmytro Kotsyubail, leader of the Nazi Pravy Sektor militia.
> 
> Nazi assassins being awarded as heroes, that is the "justice" of the Kiev regime.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498141568640983050
> A Ukrainian state politician, Bohdan Yatsikovskiy, "sings" an antisemitic song in public in 2020:
> 
> «The Jew is crying and says: "Please don't hit me", in the garden, in the quiet corner, a gallows is waiting for him (the Jew)»
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498483076527276034
> 
> 
> _Australian who killed 51 in New Zealand mosques, himself wrote in his manifesto that he travelled to Ukraine (although investigators claim they could not find any evidence of his travel to Ukraine), and had has his following in Ukraine after his killings_:
> 
> Ukraine's secret service says it has arrested a network of neo-Nazi admirers of the Christchurch terrorist Brenton Tarrant, who were publishing the gunman's so-called manifesto in a bid to stoke white nationalist terrorism.
> 
> The Security Service of Ukraine, or SBU, said it had carried out two simultaneous raids on premises Wednesday in Kyiv and Kharkiv, Ukraine's second-largest city, where the group was printing illegal extremist literature. Guns, explosive devices, ammunition and Nazi paraphernalia were also seized during the raids.
> 
> The texts were then distributed at underground meetings and "theme parties", as well as on Telegram groups with thousands of members.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine's Secret Service Busts Neo-Nazi Cell Inspired By Christchurch Shooter
> 
> 
> The group was printing extremist literature and stockpiling guns, explosive devices and Nazi paraphernalia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.vice.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine is a go-to for White Racially Motivated (*WRM*) from all over the world, it seems:
> (source = https://www.dps.texas.gov/sites/def...munications/2020/txterrorthreatassessment.pdf)
> 
> 
> View attachment 824335



Great post, keep content like this coming. We all know that Ukraine has been a breeding ground for far right extremist groups for a while now, sadly people have a bad habit of looking the other way to quote Franklin referring to Nicaraguan dictator Anastasio Somoza *"He [Somoza] may be a son of a bi**h, but he's our son of a bi**h."*

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Meengla

reflecthofgeismar said:


> So Germany was 99% beaten by Soviet blood in support with Western Allies help.
> In the end I think Russia will win the conventionally part of that war but not a conflict against the insurgents except they will do it like in Chechnya or Syria but THEN even China and India will not support them anymore.
> *So, they will go on the table and let a western Ukraine as NEUTRAL buffer state.*



The Soviets would have eventually prevailed over the Nazis despite the Nazis getting fighting forces and (often willing) resources from all the land they had occupied in Europe. American helped just hastened the fall of Berlin. BTW, sympathy for the Nazi ideology, anti-Semitism and eugenics was rampant in Europe leading up to WW 2. Germany gets singled out for those trends because the truth would be too inconvenient. 
Coming back to the topic: The highlighted part: Yes, that's the humble pie Putin AND Zellensky is likely to eat. And hurry up guys!


----------



## Clutch

CrazyZ said:


> He should put a Napoléon style hat on to complete the shoot.






dBSPL said:


> lol
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503440091330535432




Macron is strategizing on how to effectively and quickly surrender. This is Macron getting on the phone and calling Putin up:
*Macron*: " Hello, Mr. President, we we the French surrender!!"
*Putin*: "But Russia is not at war with France, what are you surrendering for?"
*Macron*: "Well... We want to ensure that you know that we have surrendered and you go not need to invade France!"
*Putin*: "like I said, we have no plans to attack France, you are not a bordering state that is joining NATO and compromising or nation interests! You can relax... Take a deep breath."
*Macron*: "So you are telling me that you are not coming here?"
*Putin*: "No we are not. Besides you are a NATO allied country, if Russia comes to France, the rest of the NATO nation will come to France!"
*Macron*: "NATO here? Can we then surrender to NATO?"
*Putin slams phone*: "Idiot!!"

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## RescueRanger

Foinikas said:


> That post was shocking. People need to see this.


It's an open secret - one which the world chooses to ignore - countless academic and journalists papers have been written on the subject, I wrote a detailed post about this threat on page 604:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments






defence.pk





*Say hello to the PetroYuan:*

Saudi Arabia Considers Accepting Yuan Instead of Dollars for Chinese Oil Sales (WSJ).

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Meengla

jamal18 said:


> Professor John Mearsheimer on the culpability for the war.



Anyone saying contrary to the mainstream version is some kind of traitor or lunatic or some appeaser.
Over the last weekend I went to a big city and met a WASP friend-couple (White Anglo Saxon Protestants). The Ukraine-Russia war came up. I said had we not launched the *illegal war* against Iraq in 2003, we would have some credibility. The wife in the couple said: 'Oh, it was G.W. Bush he did that'. And I retorted: 'And how many Democrats in the Congress opposed that??' Crickets! The husband in the couple finally said: I had supported the invasion but I know it turned out to be a disaster. 

But people like @Wood in a post above HAVE to condone any action of the Military Industrial Complex because, as he clearly said in that post, Canada is part of the American alliance. How is that moral?? As long as some poor chaps get blown up in some remote regions and people in remote region seeing their bottom line staying fine, it is fine?? 

Stop the damn group-think! The only group think should be a human-centric one.

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## jamal18

Meengla said:


> Anyone saying contrary to the mainstream version is some kind of traitor or lunatic or some appeaser.
> Over the last weekend I went to a big city and met a WASP friend-couple (White Anglo Saxon Protestants). The Ukraine-Russia war came up. I said had we not launched the *illegal war* against Iraq in 2003, we would have some credibility. The wife in the couple said: 'Oh, it was G.W. Bush he did that'. And I retorted: 'And how many Democrats in the Congress opposed that??' Crickets! The husband in the couple finally said: I had supported the invasion but I know it turned out to be a disaster.
> 
> But people like @Wood in a post above HAVE to condone any action of the Military Industrial Complex because, as he clearly said in that post, Canada is part of the American alliance. How is that moral?? As long as some poor chaps get blown up in some remote regions and people in remote region seeing their bottom line staying fine, it is fine??
> 
> Stop the damn group-think! The only group think should be a human-centric one.


The media establish a false narrative. In this case the narrative is that this is all the cause of a madman called Putin. Anybody who disagrees with this is regarded as a traitor, or assisting in mass murder.

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## Apollon

Clutch said:


> Macron is strategizing on how to effectively and quickly surrender. This is Macron getting on the phone and calling Putin up:
> *Macron*: " Hello, Mr. President, we we the French surrender!!"
> *Putin*: "But Russia is not at war with France, what are you surrendering for?"
> *Macron*: "Well... We want to ensure that you know that we have surrendered and you go not need to invade France!"
> *Putin*: "like I said, we have no plans to attack France, you are not a bordering state that is joining NATO and compromising or nation interests! You can relax... Take a deep breath."
> *Macron*: "So you are telling me that you are not coming here?"
> *Putin*: "No we are not. Besides you are a NATO allied country, if Russia comes to France, the rest of the NATO nation will come to France!"
> *Macron*: "NATO here? Can we then surrender to NATO?"
> *Putin slams phone*: "Idiot!!"



Thats pure idiocy. France in its history fought extreme brutal wars with extreme bravery. Go visit Verdun.


----------



## RescueRanger

NATO Press Conference Live in 1 min:


https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1yoJMWeevXOKQ


----------



## Apollon

jamal18 said:


> The media establish a false narrative. In this case the narrative is that this is all the cause of a madman called Putin. Anybody who disagrees with this is regarded as a traitor, or assisting in mass murder.



Putin started a hitleresque war against a weaker neighbor. There is not much speculation left. Even more so that Europe plain and simple cant allow this to happen.


----------



## Clutch

Apollon said:


> Thats pure idiocy. France in its history fought extreme brutal wars with extreme bravery. Go visit Verdun.

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## Meengla

Clutch said:


> Macron is strategizing on how to effectively and quickly surrender. This is Macron getting on the phone and calling Putin up:
> *Macron*: " Hello, Mr. President, we we the French surrender!!"
> *Putin*: "But Russia is not at war with France, what are you surrendering for?"
> *Macron*: "Well... We want to ensure that you know that we have surrendered and you go not need to invade France!"
> *Putin*: "like I said, we have no plans to attack France, you are not a bordering state that is joining NATO and compromising or nation interests! You can relax... Take a deep breath."
> *Macron*: "So you are telling me that you are not coming here?"
> *Putin*: "No we are not. Besides you are a NATO allied country, if Russia comes to France, the rest of the NATO nation will come to France!"
> *Macron*: "NATO here? Can we then surrender to NATO?"
> *Putin slams phone*: "Idiot!!"



Militaries surrender or retreat all the time. No point killing more people when the writing is on the wall. America, at the height of its power, had to retreat twice in the Korean War. 
Problem with the French is that a large number of them actively collaborated with the Nazis after the occupation and that, despite really not contributing to toppling Hitler, the French still gained too much: A part of Berlin AND a UNSC seat. Talk about rewarding too much for too little!!

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## TheNoob

kingQamaR said:


> Moscow was warned not to invade Ukraine or face sever consequences
> 
> He ignored it. And now his corrupt mafia abroad who working for him have had there entire assets frozen to put pressure on Putin to back down
> 
> What ever Putin does it’s pointless he can not fly these planes in most parts of the world they will be seized. Guy is an idiot



And Moscow first warned NATO and US not to meddle in Ukraine which it continued to do so until 2008, leading to the 2014 coup and a minority reppression by the new UkaGovt in the minority regions.

So, technically. 
It is the west that kept adding fuel to the fire and russia doing this is the consequence which everyone was aware of but i guess people in allied countries have short term memories and prefer to drink the wine sponsored by the media.

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## CrazyZ

RescueRanger said:


> It's an open secret - one which the world chooses to ignore - countless academic and journalists papers have been written on the subject, I wrote a detailed post about this threat on page 604:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Say hello to the PetroYuan:*
> 
> Saudi Arabia Considers Accepting Yuan Instead of Dollars for Chinese Oil Sales (WSJ).


This is inevitable due to USA strategic blunders in the MENA and western over use of financial weapons. The outcome to Ukraine conflict is known. NATO will have to yield Ukraine to Russia......just make it pay. Its the economic chess board that is most in play here. Western financial system can be used as a weapon.....many countries want a hedge against it. A Yuan system is the best option for this. If it is backed by oil and gas from GCC, OPEC and Russia, then it is hard to write off or dictate terms too.

Remember in CW1 USA had China and most of MENA on its side.....and it won. Is QUAD +UK+Israel a strong enough set of allies needed for CW2? Personally, I don't think so.

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## Titanium100

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503436783526322186
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503437308523167752
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503437655392014348
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503438175443820548






Apollon said:


> Thats pure idiocy. France in its history fought extreme brutal wars with extreme bravery. Go visit Verdun.


Macron did suggest a surrender earlier on in the negotiations pre war to exit NATO from the entire eastern flank which angered other nato members


----------



## Apollon

TheNoob said:


> And Moscow first warned NATO and US not to meddle in Ukraine which it continued to do so until 2008, leading to the 2014 coup and a minority reppression by the new UkaGovt in the minority regions.
> 
> So, technically.
> It is the west that kept adding fuel to the fire and russia doing this is the consequence which everyone was aware of but i guess people in allied countries have short term memories and prefer to drink the wine sponsored by the media.



Fun fact, Russia is not Ukraine. And has as much to say about Ukraine as Tuvalu.

Anyways we now take russias ability away to opress its neighbors any longer

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## Primus

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 824255
> 
> 
> View attachment 824256


LMAOZEDONG


----------



## Apollon

CrazyZ said:


> This is inevitable due to USA strategic blunders in the MENA and western over use of financial weapons. The outcome to Ukraine conflict is known. NATO will have to yield Ukraine to Russia......just make it pay. Its the economic chess board that is most in play here. Western financial system can be used as a weapon.....many countries want a hedge against it. A Yuan system is the best option for this. If it is backed by oil and gas from GCC, OPEC and Russia, then it is hard to write off or dictate terms too.
> 
> Remember in CW1 USA had China and most of MENA on its side.....and it won. Is QUAD +UK+Israel a strong enough set of allies needed for CW2? Personally, I don't think so.



You forgot the EU which Germany alone is a complete economic behemoth.

Russia will be economic crushed.

Russian facist regime at work

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## Wood

Meengla said:


> But people like @Wood in a post above HAVE to condone any action of the Military Industrial Complex because, as he clearly said in that post, Canada is part of the American alliance. How is that moral?? As long as some poor chaps get blown up in some remote regions and people in remote region seeing their bottom line staying fine, it is fine??
> 
> Stop the damn group-think! The only group think should be a human-centric one.


I'm not sure where you've seen that I've given a big blank certificate to the Military Industrial Complex. I've never ever thought of the Iraq invasion as justified. Canada did not fight in the war, but even if it did - that is not something that I would condone. In fact, even the Afghan occupation is not something I support. This is despite the Canadian participation in the war. 

You'll see that I have views that are contrary to mainstream Indian narrative all the time. Please don't mistake this to mean that I have lesser liking for India than the next Indian you'll come across in the street. My opinions are based on what I think is best for India and its people. Same is the case for Canada. There will be cases when what I think is best for Canadian and Indian interests do not align with what you would like to read. Please do not assume that to mean your views are morally superior because it is so  

ALL opinions that we hold stem from our personal biases, those who claim moral superiority over others have not understood this part of human nature. Politics is in effect a battle of competing interests after all. There is nothing in this world without it. 

Morality itself is relative. A person from privileged family will say child labor is bad and brutal. But from the perspective of the poor family and children in labor, it is an existential necessity. If you think people on the internet are immoral because your views are not reflected by them, then that is your problem  

PS: I'd like to keep my views in this thread within the Russia vs Ukraine framework. So lets not drift away from that.


----------



## nang2

thetutle said:


> so all places that speak English in china belong to England?


1. You are off the topic. I was only addressing @Wood comment on the statistics.
2. The statistics is about the percentage of Ukrainians speaking Russian as their NATIVE language.

You really should read that wiki page so I don't have to educate you on the details.


----------



## beijingwalker

Apollon said:


> You forgot the EU which Germany alone is a complete economic behemoth.


behemoth? A midget is more like it.

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## Foinikas

Meengla said:


> The wife in the couple said: 'Oh, it was G.W. Bush he did that'. And I retorted: 'And how many Democrats in the Congress opposed that??' Crickets! The husband in the couple finally said: I had supported the invasion but I know it turned out to be a disaster.


And not just that. Clinton bombed Yugoslavia and Obama bombed Libya. And I think Pakistan too?

All Democrats.


----------



## CrazyZ

Apollon said:


> You forgot the EU which Germany alone is a complete economic behemoth.
> 
> Russia will be economic crushed.
> 
> Russian facist regime at work


Germany is still buying Russian oil and gas, FYI. My point is to the global economic fail out of this war, the ground outcome is known.

Russian economy will be crushed but only in the short term. Western countries are also headed for recession in the short term. Dollar will be challenged by a Petro-Yuan in the long run. Countries like Iran and Russia use to use the Euro as a a reserve to stay away from the dollar, now they will use Yuan. Euro's percentage as a global reserve will drop for sure.


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## Apollon

Russian troops leave Equipment and run away. Its interesting how chaotic and fielthy that vehicle looks inside


----------



## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503736682876743682



A Russian Major of the 103rd Rocket Brigade was killed by Ukrainian forces today.

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## Foinikas

RescueRanger said:


> Nicaraguan dictator Anastasio Somoza


That guy was so bad,even the Church in Nicaragua stopped supporting the regime. He was literally so bad,almost everyone in the country ended up hating him. And yet the US tried to keep him in power. Just like the useless Afghan government and many other governmentsin Latin America,Africa and Southeast Asia.

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## Apollon

Vergennes said:


> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503736682876743682
> 
> 
> 
> A Russian Major of the 103rd Rocket Brigade was killed by Ukrainian forces today.



Im not a big fan of showing face of fallen soldiers. No matter whats going on but imagine his family sees this.

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## beijingwalker

Germany's economy is highly dependent on trade, very vulnerable to outside geopolitical uncertainties, Russia not so much.


----------



## Apollon

beijingwalker said:


> Germany's economy is highly dependent on trade, very vulnerable to outside geopolitical uncertainties, Russia not so much.
> 
> View attachment 824344



Russia has no economy.


----------



## nang2

RescueRanger said:


> *Say hello to the PetroYuan:*
> 
> Saudi Arabia Considers Accepting Yuan Instead of Dollars for Chinese Oil Sales (WSJ).


PetroYuan has been ready for quite a few years and it is backed by gold.

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## beijingwalker

Apollon said:


> Russia has no economy.


It has the world richest resources, this is the economy that everyone wants or at least it's what we want and we are the world biggest trader. Maybe now you can claim that China also has no economy.


----------



## Meengla

Foinikas said:


> And not just that. Clinton bombed Yugoslavia and Obama bombed Libya. And I think Pakistan too?
> 
> All Democrats.



In the words of John Pilger: "Democrats have been more rapacious since World War 2" and he's absolutely right! 
The silence of the likes of Bernie Sanders and multitudes of other 'leftists' in the current war is deafening. But why are they silent?? It is because it is THEIR President who is being in a war situation right now... Imagine had it been a Trump???
*Opportunism. Virtue Signaling. Being cowardly and intellectually lazy on the side of whatever the prevalent discourse is. Signs of weak characters.*


----------



## LeGenD

nang2 said:


> PetroYuan has been ready for quite a few years and it is backed by gold.



China has benefitted much from a controlled Yuan through the years.

With more and more transactions shifting to Yuan, its value will appreciate over time and this dynamic will have wider implications for Chinese manufacturing industries among other effects.

Americans have advocated for a weaker USD on the other hand:









The benefits of a lower dollar: How the high dollar has hurt U.S. manufacturing producers and why the dollar still needs to fall further


The current decline in the dollar will provide a much-needed stimulus to the U.S. economy. The falling dollar will bring especially welcome relief to the internationally competitive U.S. manufacturing sector, which has suffered disastrous consequenceslost jobs, reduced profits, and decreased...




www.epi.org







Is a Strong Dollar Better than a Weak Dollar?



American manufacturing enterprise will benefit from weaker USD in short. This will lead to increase in American EXPORTS by extension.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503735300828319745

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503741551192723466

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503741861898461188

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503744050377154561

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503739409312722947

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## Apollon

beijingwalker said:


> It has the world richest resources, this is the economy that everyone wants or at least it's what we want and we are the world biggest trader. Maybe now you can claim that China also has no economy.



You will get it for free. Take your price. Still russia wont have an economy. Economy means price and trade. China can totally dictate them


----------



## Wood




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## Apollon

The corruption of russia is unimaginable. You know explosive armor on tanks? Turns out on russian tanks most is made of cardboard. Looks like some higher ups took the money and send their soldiers into death in cardboard tanks 

We

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## Hassan Al-Somal



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## Wood

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> View attachment 824360


North Korea has found the way to do this. I'm sure Russia will get there as well

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## TheNoob

All these people talking about russian having no economy after this will shed tears at the success of my fried chicken chain business in Russia.


Prepare yourself for the opportunity that has opened itself after the closure of major international chains!

Edit: will also eventually open stores in the new ukraine as well!

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## Apollon

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> View attachment 824360


The same lawrov whose daughter owns a money laundry in London?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Looks like the Russian and pro-Russian armed forces are collecting countless supplies of Western Javelin ATGMs as trophies. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503749156489334797

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## Apollon

Looks like we got Putins 700 million yacht.










US intelligence officials believe a $700 million superyacht that's docked in Italy could belong to Russian President Vladimir Putin, reports say


US officials have not yet concluded who owns the superyacht but said they found initial indications that it was associated with Putin, per The NYT.




www.google.com






Since he cant leave Russia anyways he doest need it anymore.

Damn EU has confiscated russian yachts worth 9 billion € so far.

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## Kraetoz

Wood said:


> North Korea has found the way to do this. I'm sure Russia will get there as well


China has found a way to do this. They have their own satellites, they have CIPS-back up for SWIFT, they have Union pay so banning mastercard or visa won't matter too. They don't use Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Whatsapp. The only thing west would be putting sanctions on is McDonald's.

Russia needs to get there as well.


----------



## Apollon

Kraetoz said:


> China has found a way to do this. They have their own satellites, they have CIPS-back up for SWIFT, they have Union pay so banning mastercard or visa won't matter too. They don't use Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Whatsapp. The only thing west would be putting sanctions on is McDonald's.
> 
> Russia needs to get there as well.



Russia cant get there. Their elites want yachts! Nothing else


----------



## nang2

LeGenD said:


> China has benefitted much from a controlled Yuan through the years.
> 
> With more and more transactions shifting to Yuan, its value will appreciate over time and this dynamic will have wider implications for Chinese manufacturing industries among other effects.
> 
> Americans have advocated for a weaker USD on the other hand:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The benefits of a lower dollar: How the high dollar has hurt U.S. manufacturing producers and why the dollar still needs to fall further
> 
> 
> The current decline in the dollar will provide a much-needed stimulus to the U.S. economy. The falling dollar will bring especially welcome relief to the internationally competitive U.S. manufacturing sector, which has suffered disastrous consequenceslost jobs, reduced profits, and decreased...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.epi.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is a Strong Dollar Better than a Weak Dollar?
> 
> 
> 
> American manufacturing enterprise will benefit from weaker USD in short. This will lead to increase in American EXPORTS by extension.


Given the size of the economy, Yuan should float freely anyway. It should spread blessing and curse among all people equally. The supply and demand will help find its value position. The problem is always with socialist's mentality that prefers planning, which always benefits some at the cost of others. It is also a common fallacy that inflicts even economists to see the obvious and ignore the obscure. The latter could be magnitude larger than the obvious.

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## Wergeland 2.0

Is there anyone who can unplug Apollon from the internet? Please..?

This thread is spammed with kindergarten tantrums.

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## Wood

Kraetoz said:


> China has found a way to do this. They have their own satellites, they have CIPS-back up for SWIFT, they have Union pay so banning mastercard or visa won't matter too. They don't use Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Whatsapp. The only thing west would be putting sanctions on is McDonald's.
> 
> Russia needs to get there as well.


Tell all that to North Korea 

The CIPS payment is only for countries that trade directly with Chinese banks. For international trade to third parties, SWIFT is still required. The recognition of SWIFT has the standard and only framework is a geo political tool used by western world. I don't see that go away so easily - not when the western world is united as it is today

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## nang2

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> Is there anyone who can unplug Apollon from the internet? Please..?
> 
> This thread is spammed with kindergarten tantrums.


That is the beauty of the freedom of speech. Now you know what kindergarten tantrums look like.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503755858949427206

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## Apollon

Another russian aircraft down


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503742643972591625

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## Apollon

This one is brutal. Direct hit on russian tank.


----------



## Wood



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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503527368157241350


----------



## Wood

I'm surprised to know that Pakistan's position on the Russo Ukrainian war can have an impact in its domestic politics. Is there any merit to this opinion?

For Indian people, this war does not mean anything in domestic political discourse.

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## Apollon

Ukrainian soldiers pass destroyed russian platoon.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503755858949427206


How is this possible when Russia is getting beaten worse than Iraq???

How come veterans are running away and telling people to not throw away their lives if glorious Ukraine is wiping out evil weak Russians?


----------



## Apollon

FairAndUnbiased said:


> How is this possible when Russia is getting beaten worse than Iraq???
> 
> How come veterans are running away and telling people to not throw away their lives if glorious Ukraine is wiping out evil weak Russians?



Russia is beaten hard. But war is not over yet so its dangerous place.

On a sidenote i wonder how russia in post putin time will try to re approach europe.

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## Wood

FairAndUnbiased said:


> How is this possible when Russia is getting beaten worse than Iraq???
> 
> How come veterans are running away and telling people to not throw away their lives if glorious Ukraine is wiping out evil weak Russians?


I don't think many believe that Russia will not have a military victory in this war. The American generals in CNN could be making such wily predictions because it is good for TV. But what most people believe is that Russia is unable to meet the military expectations that it set for itself before the operation. I see the fact that Russia is recruiting militia from Syria and Africa to fight on their side as evidence that supports this conclusion.

At the end of the day, Russia is a military super power. Their relative superiority compared to most of the world is an undeniable fact.


----------



## Apollon

Wood said:


> I don't think many believe that Russia will not have a military victory in this war. The American generals in CNN could be making such wily predictions because it is good for TV. But what most people believe is that Russia is unable to meet the military expectations that it set for itself before the operation. I see the fact that Russia is recruiting militia from Syria and Africa to fight on their side as evidence that supports this conclusion.
> 
> At the end of the day, Russia is a military super power. Their relative superiority compared to most of the world is an undeniable fact.



How can one be a military super power and not even be able to feed its soldiers? 

From Europe point of View we are actually shocked how weak russia is

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## Wood

Apollon said:


> How can one be a military super power and not even be able to feed its soldiers?
> 
> From Europe point of View we are actually shocked how weak russia is


Like I said, it is a relatively superior to most armies. It does not mean that it is better than US or NATO or Chinese armies. There are plenty of other countries that cannot individually dare to do what Russia is trying to do right now.


----------



## Apollon

Wood said:


> Like I said, it is a relatively superior to most armies. It does not mean that it is better than US or NATO or Chinese armies. There are plenty of other countries that cannot individually dare to do what Russia is trying to do right now.



I agree with that but for Europe, Russia has lost all credibility.

I wondered why putin did such idiotic decission and i guess isolation mixed with bootlickers

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## beijingwalker

When sharing those unverifiable footages, check out the comment section first, many in the comment sections say they are fake or unrelated old footages.

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## Wood

Apollon said:


> I agree with that but for Europe, Russia has lost all credibility.
> 
> *I wondered why putin did such idiotic decission *and i guess isolation mixed with bootlickers


Million dollar question. 

My guess is that he always wanted to take Ukraine and relaunch the Soviet empire. Just a gut feeling for me based on some of his speeches. He may have decided that it is now or never as he turns 70! He is perhaps treating himself

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## nang2

Apollon said:


> I agree with that but for Europe, Russia has lost all credibility.
> 
> I wondered why putin did such idiotic decission and i guess isolation mixed with bootlickers


More reasons to dissolve NATO.

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## oberschlesier

Apollon said:


> I agree with that but for Europe, Russia has lost all credibility.
> 
> I wondered why putin did such idiotic decission and i guess isolation mixed with bootlickers


He is being feed with wrong information, this is the only explanation here. I do not belive he is crazy of something.

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## Wood

nang2 said:


> More reasons to dissolve NATO.


Nice try, Pablo.


----------



## Apollon

nang2 said:


> More reasons to dissolve NATO.



Why should we dissolve NATO?

When was it ever good to Split up?

Without NATO, Germany would need its own nukes. Poland as well


----------



## Wood

Apollon said:


> Why should we dissolve NATO?
> 
> When was it ever good to Split up?
> 
> Without NATO, Germany would need its own nukes. Poland as well


... he is trolling you because you said that European armies can handle Russia. He likely understood that as you saying NATO may not be required.

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## oberschlesier

nang2 said:


> More reasons to dissolve NATO.


This situation will rather strengthen NATO and european armies.

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## nang2

Apollon said:


> Why should we dissolve NATO?
> 
> When was it ever good to Split up?
> 
> Without NATO, Germany would need its own nukes. Poland as well


Simple. First, NATO is not just a nuke umbrella. It is a conventional defense pack. Second, NATO's primary target was Russia and is still Russia. The only reason to further strengthen your own power when your primary opponent has become so weak is for you to become a bully.



oberschlesier said:


> This situation will rather strengthen NATO and european armies.


That is nonsense. NATO and European armies are NOT weak. They are helpless since Ukraine is NOT protected by them. They need to bring Ukraine in, instead of further strengthening themselves.



Wood said:


> ... he is trolling you because you said that European armies can handle Russia. He likely understood that as you saying NATO may not be required.


By the way, all major nuclear powers have promised Ukraine to defend against nuclear attack, in exchange for Ukraine to give up nukes. In another word, Ukraine is already under nuke umbrella without entering NATO.

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## Maira La

Wood said:


> My guess is that he always wanted to take Ukraine and relaunch the Soviet empire.



Ukraine is the birthplace of Russians. Russia without Ukraine is like Italy without Rome. Russia had to do something before they lost Ukraine for good.

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## nang2

Maira La said:


> Ukraine is the birthplace of Russians. Russia without Ukraine is like Italy without Rome. Russia had to do something before they lost Ukraine for good.


I don't believe in any justification of violence based on sentimental or cultural reasons. I think Russia should swallow their pride and really hunker down to build up their own country. That requires real mental strength and in the end really benefits their own people and those around them.

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## Wood

nang2 said:


> By the way, all major nuclear powers have promised Ukraine to defend against nuclear attack, in exchange for Ukraine to give up nukes. In another word, Ukraine is already under nuke umbrella without entering NATO.


I don't think Ukraine will be nuked anytime soon. Russia does not need to do it.


----------



## nang2

Wood said:


> I don't think Ukraine will be nuked anytime soon. Russia does not need to do it.


I mentioned that just because @Apollon brought up the nuke umbrella issue to support his NATO idea. It only shows that support is very weak.

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## Vergennes

Apollon said:


> I agree with that but for Europe, Russia has lost all credibility.
> 
> I wondered why putin did such idiotic decission and i guess isolation mixed with bootlickers



What do you expect. Putin was lied to by his staff about his armed forces capability,he was lied by his own advisers who sold him a quick and easy ride in Ukraine,his advisers lied to him about the West's response. Why wouldn't he invade ?

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## Apollon

Maira La said:


> Ukraine is the birthplace of Russians. Russia without Ukraine is like Italy without Rome. Russia had to do something before they lost Ukraine for good.



They did lose Ukraine. Ukraine now hates russians with absolute passion.

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## nang2

Apollon said:


> They did lose Ukraine. Ukraine now hates russians with absolute passion.


I am sure the memory is still there about how they suffered severe famine under the hands of Stalin for political reasons. It is the most fertile land in the world and they starved to death. Today's conflict is really nothing comparing with that atrocity.

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## Vergennes

Apollon said:


> They did lose Ukraine. Ukraine now hates russians with absolute passion.



Still waiting for those who claimed "Russians and Ukrainians are of the same blood,they are brothers,Ukrainians will welcome Russians with open arms". Yeah,more like welcome them with javelins and stingers.

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503775662586449923

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## Corax

I think we might be seeing the first signs of Putin's strategy working. Zelensky appears to be coming to terms with what the Kremlin wants, and open to reaching a settlement. But the price might be high, effectively partitioning the country between the Eastern Russian speaking part, and a cut down Western Ukraine.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/wor...30b349980bea49f4b7ca89&pinned_post_type=share

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## Wood

Foinikas said:


> RUSSIA-INDIA BEST FRIENDS,INDIA ALWAYS WILL HELP RUSSIA WE ARE BROTHERS!
> 
> View attachment 824247
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 824249


Very surprising to see that 500 Indians have signed up for it. I do not peg an average Indian as someone who would volunteer to fight in foreign wars. But I suppose India is a big population - even a infinitesimally small fraction of over a billion people could be significant.


----------



## Wood




----------



## oberschlesier

Corax said:


> I think we might be seeing the first signs of Putin's strategy working. Zelensky appears to be coming to terms with what the Kremlin wants, and open to reaching a settlement. But the price might be high, effectively partitioning the country between the Eastern Russian speaking part, and a cut down Western Ukraine.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60746557?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=6230b349980bea49f4b7ca89&Zelensky says Ukraine should accept it won't join Nato&2022-03-15T16:41:24.938Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:f4daac0b-0d36-4cf5-910e-f806583cca12&pinned_post_asset_id=6230b349980bea49f4b7ca89&pinned_post_type=share


This is nothing new. He said about not joining NATO, which was obvious before the war.


----------



## Apollon

Absolut crazy and shows how deep russia has sunken. Drones capture how russiam soldiers stop cars and execute civilians





__





Discover Popular Videos | Facebook


Facebook Watch is the place to enjoy videos and shows together. Find the latest trending videos, discover original shows and checkout what's going on with your favorite creators.




fb.watch

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## Meengla

oberschlesier said:


> This is nothing new. He said about not joining NATO, which was obvious before the war.



There are mixed signals from Ukraine.
If you saw a video I posted yesterday where the Ukraine diplomatic adviser gave to an Indian channel. In that video, the advisor asked for iron-clad guarantees backed up by foreign powers for Ukraine's security and for that Ukraine would sign some neutrality agreement with Russia. BUT in the same interview the advisor also used the term 'for the time being' to not ask for Nato membership. Russia, if you recall, had asked for a permanent agreement of neutrality before the war began--actually just a few days before the war began. Russia asked for more than some for the time being agreement.

Anyway, what Ukraine should fear is that Russia decides to reduce its invasion to eastern and southern parts, consolidates there, use the very considerable Russian ethnic presence, especially in the eastern part, and make the Dnipier River, which is supposed to have only limited crossings, a natural barrier and target the Russian guns on Kiev as blackmail... sort of like North Korea does by targeting Seoul. IF Russia is able to achieve those goals--which are in the realm of possibilities--then Russia will have won the war even if at great cost to itself. I believe in that case Russia will eventually ride out the sanctions.


----------



## Wood

Very cool to see that within 2 weeks, they've adapted to the change in need. Big respect

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## Apollon

Meengla said:


> There are mixed signals from Ukraine.
> If you saw a video I posted yesterday where the Ukraine diplomatic adviser gave to an Indian channel. In that video, the advisor asked for iron-clad guarantees backed up by foreign powers for Ukraine's security and for that Ukraine would sign some neutrality agreement with Russia. BUT in the same interview the advisor also used the term 'for the time being' to not ask for Nato membership. Russia, if you recall, had asked for a permanent agreement of neutrality before the war began--actually just a few days before the war began. Russia asked for more than some for the time being agreement.
> 
> Anyway, what Ukraine should fear is that Russia decides to reduce its invasion to eastern and southern parts, consolidates there, use the very considerable Russian ethnic presence, especially in the eastern part, and make the Dnipier River, which is supposed to have only limited crossings, a natural barrier and target the Russian guns on Kiev as blackmail... sort of like North Korea does by targeting Seoul. IF Russia is able to achieve those goals--which are in the realm of possibilities--then Russia will have won the war even if at great cost to itself. I believe in that case Russia will eventually ride out the sanctions.



Russia cant ride out the sanctions. Its cut off from Europe completly and crippled. In this state its destined for a slow and agonizing death as a nation. Russia itself has nothing to offer to its own people. The young and educated one run away and whats left?


----------



## Meengla

Apollon said:


> Russia cant ride out the sanctions. Its cut off from Europe completly and crippled. In this state its destined for a slow and agonizing death as a nation. Russia itself has nothing to offer to its own people. The young and educated one run away and whats left?



Russia is destined to a small nation west of the Urals (and even then minus the Caucasus). But I don't think sanctions will cripple it.


----------



## Oublious

They should turn farmers of Ukrain to, *Farmed Ukrain forces. *After Russia they are the best supply of Russian weapons. Best choice of poor countries for weapons....

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## Sharma Ji

Apollon said:


> Absolut crazy and shows how deep russia has sunken. Drones capture how russiam soldiers stop cars and execute civilians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Discover Popular Videos | Facebook
> 
> 
> Facebook Watch is the place to enjoy videos and shows together. Find the latest trending videos, discover original shows and checkout what's going on with your favorite creators.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fb.watch


looks fake as feck


----------



## gambit

nang2 said:


> More reasons to dissolve NATO.


Yes, then strengthened the mutual defense clause in the EU charter, then allow the US to join the EU. Same mission, different club.

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## dBSPL

Turkish Foreign Minister Çavuşoğlu:

"We had the opportunity to evacuate more than 14,800 of our citizens from Ukraine, we approached 15,000."

"We are helping the Meskhetian and Crimean Tatar Turks, our other kinsmen and the citizens of the countries that ask for our help as much as we can."

“Sergey Lavrov called me last night about the evacuation of our citizens from Mariupol. Conditions are forming gradually. We look forward to the good news today or tomorrow.”

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## Wood

gambit said:


> Yes, then strengthened the mutual defense clause in the EU charter, then allow the US to join the EU. Same mission, different club.


Do you want USD to be replaced by EURO? Cannot loose the convenience of printing green back  

Perhaps a UK type integration with EU is what you seek. But I don't think Americans will vote for open borders.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503774875957272586

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503769760504455172

Russian losses have now surpassed 1300 at minimum

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## gambit

Wood said:


> *Do you want USD to be replaced by EURO?* Cannot loose the convenience of printing green back
> 
> Perhaps a UK type integration with EU is what you seek. But I don't think Americans will vote for open borders.


In Europe? I have no problems with the EU being as strong in Europe as the US is in North America. Economically and militarily strong. I have no problems with the EU being a US peer in every way.


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## Wood

gambit said:


> In Europe? I have no problems with the EU being as strong in Europe as the US is in North America. Economically and militarily strong. I have no problems with the EU being a US peer in every way.


Yes, but that is not what I meant.

EU - US integration may require 1 of the 2 unions to give up on their currency. US may also require to have open borders for European nationals. Many conservatives in US do not like the idea even for Canada.


----------



## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503769760504455172
> 
> Russian losses have now surpassed 1300 at minimum



Only visually confirmed losses. Toll on each shides must be much higher.

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## kingQamaR

TheNoob said:


> And Moscow first warned NATO and US not to meddle in Ukraine which it continued to do so until 2008, leading to the 2014 coup and a minority reppression by the new UkaGovt in the minority regions.
> 
> So, technically.
> It is the west that kept adding fuel to the fire and russia doing this is the consequence which everyone was aware of but i guess people in allied countries have short term memories and prefer to drink the wine sponsored by the media.



Putin attacking the Ukraine wasn't a matter of the Ukraine not getting along with a neighbour. Putin is a dictator. He wanted to control what was going on in the Ukraine so he decided to invade it. And now Russia will not agree to a full widthdraw. They must have part of the country or putin lose his face. I’ve not seen any thing like this in modern times a country like Russia whose borders are simply expanding more and more every few years. And Where do these Russians borders exactly finish because rest of us are totally confused.

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## Apollon

Wood said:


> Yes, but that is not what I meant.
> 
> EU - US integration may require 1 of the 2 unions to give up on their currency. US may also require to have open borders for European nationals. Many conservatives in US do not like the idea even for Canada.



The US and EU basicly have ooen borders.


----------



## Wood

Apollon said:


> The US and EU basicly have ooen borders.


Not for work. You need a visa to work in US and probably a visa interview too under normal circumstances. I think Canada has a provision to work in US with only a work permit, but no need for visa. Not sure though 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503773907546955779

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## nang2

Wood said:


> Not for work. You need a visa to work in US and probably a visa interview too under normal circumstances. I think Canada has a provision to work in US with only a work permit, but no need for visa. Not sure though
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503773907546955779


Europeans may lack of imagination. They should learn from Mexicans who have already achieved open border with US.

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## gambit

Wood said:


> Yes, but that is not what I meant.
> 
> EU - US integration may require 1 of the 2 unions to give up on their currency. US may also require to have open borders for European nationals. Many conservatives in US do not like the idea even for Canada.


There is an opt-out provision in the EU mutual defense clause. After this Ukraine mess is over, no matter which way, EU members will re-think that clause. As for the US, I was not joking about the US being a member of the EU. Am sure the EU could carve out a provision for the US to allow all parties to maintain their independence. Those who calls for NATO disbandment simply do not know what they are talking about and how another military defense treaty can arise to do the same mission. The bottom line is that those, like me, who have always been suspicious of Russia, can thank Russia for proving us correct, that Russia cannot be trusted and that the Europeans should have made themselves stronger when they had the chance at the end of CW1. I believe that had western Europe took it upon themselves to strengthen their military alliance, this Russia-Ukraine war would not happen.

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## Apollon

Interesting analysis of a polish general in german media.

He says Russia already lost and cant expand further. It now starts killing civilians out of frustration but even that will stop in a matter of days when ukrainian forces destroy the russian artillery positions









Polnische Experten sind verhalten optimistisch für die Ukraine


Der unseren Leserinnen und Lesern bereits bekannte General Waldemar Skrzypczak, ehemaliger Chef der polnischen Landstreitkräfte, ist mit seinen Lagebeurteilungen bisher erstaunlich gut gelegen. Und das, obwohl er im Gegensatz zu den ausrangierten Bundeswehrgeneralen, die zur Zeit bei uns...




www.tichyseinblick.de







gambit said:


> There is an opt-out provision in the EU mutual defense clause. After this Ukraine mess is over, no matter which way, EU members will re-think that clause. As for the US, I was not joking about the US being a member of the EU. Am sure the EU could carve out a provision for the US to allow all parties to maintain their independence. Those who calls for NATO disbandment simply do not know what they are talking about and how another military defense treaty can arise to do the same mission. The bottom line is that those, like me, who have always been suspicious of Russia, can thank Russia for proving us correct, that Russia cannot be trusted and that the Europeans should have made themselves stronger when they had the chance at the end of CW1. I believe that had western Europe took it upon themselves to strengthen their military alliance, this Russia-Ukraine war would not happen.



We have to thank putin for that. We now see extreme european armament. With germany alone he has awakened a dragon.

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## Wood

They are taking a train ride to Ukraine!

Ukraine may not be joining NATO anytime soon.. but EU doors may become open for them?


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503794690071670788

Reactions: Like Like:
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## FairAndUnbiased

Apollon said:


> Interesting analysis of a polish general in german media.
> 
> He says Russia already lost and cant expand further. It now starts killing civilians out of frustration but even that will stop in a matter of days when ukrainian forces destroy the russian artillery positions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polnische Experten sind verhalten optimistisch für die Ukraine
> 
> 
> Der unseren Leserinnen und Lesern bereits bekannte General Waldemar Skrzypczak, ehemaliger Chef der polnischen Landstreitkräfte, ist mit seinen Lagebeurteilungen bisher erstaunlich gut gelegen. Und das, obwohl er im Gegensatz zu den ausrangierten Bundeswehrgeneralen, die zur Zeit bei uns...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tichyseinblick.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have to thank putin for that. We now see extreme european armament. With germany alone he has awakened a dragon.


When can we expect to see China border the Grand Ukrainian Empire? Looking forward to bilateral trade between Ukrainian Vladivostok and Chinese northeast.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503773596019314689


----------



## Apollon

FairAndUnbiased said:


> When can we expect to see China border the Grand Ukrainian Empire? Looking forward to bilateral trade between Ukrainian Vladivostok and Chinese northeast.



The article also mentions china. He says China will drop Putin like a hot potatoe in short time. He failed and China doesnt like losers. He strenghtend the West on the other side Russia more or less will become a chinese vasall, completly dependend. So China gains alot.


----------



## Pappa Alpha

Wood said:


> They are taking a train ride to Ukraine!
> 
> Ukraine may not be joining NATO anytime soon.. but EU doors may become open for them?


West Ukraine might join EU

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## Vergennes

VDV continue to suffer significant losses


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503764955056771076

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## gambit

Wood said:


> I don't think many believe that Russia will not have a military victory in this war. The American generals in CNN could be making such wily predictions because it is good for TV. But what most people believe is that Russia is unable to meet the military expectations that it set for itself before the operation. I see the fact that Russia is recruiting militia from Syria and Africa to fight on their side as evidence that supports this conclusion.
> 
> At the end of the day, Russia is a military super power. Their relative superiority compared to most of the world is an undeniable fact.


Subtract the nuclear option for now. This war revealed the true capability of the Russian military overall -- that it is at best a defensive capable military, not one capable of conquest.

By that, I mean the Russian military seems to be best capable of 'repelling boarders' type of warfare, which is how most of the world's militaries are. Cross borders means you are expeditionary, which is the US. A defense capable military can cross borders in the execution of its missions, but the deeper into foreign territory and longer it remains outside its territory, the weaker it become over time because of lack of materiel support which is an economic issue which leads us back to how Russia's economy have been in poor state for so long, which finally reinforce what is known all this time that economic power = military power.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503755858949427206



RIP


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503802725892558855

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503804051493900297


----------



## OldTwilight

Apollon said:


> We are involved. Each day we flood thousands of stingers, manpads and other weapons to Ukraine. Its the main reason why russia suffers so heavy losses. Beside that we give the ukrainians constant intelligence data.
> 
> Plus add the fact we destroyed russias economy.


well , that wont change much , because Russian decided to win by clearing every house ... costly but more stable way of anexing a land


gambit said:


> Subtract the nuclear option for now. This war revealed the true capability of the Russian military overall -- that it is at best a defensive capable military, not one capable of conquest.
> 
> By that, I mean the Russian military seems to be best capable of 'repelling boarders' type of warfare, which is how most of the world's militaries are. Cross borders means you are expeditionary, which is the US. A defense capable military can cross borders in the execution of its missions, but the deeper into foreign territory and longer it remains outside its territory, the weaker it become over time because of lack of materiel support which is an economic issue which leads us back to how Russia's economy have been in poor state for so long, which finally reinforce what is known all this time that economic power = military power.


well , Russian can't print dollar and exports their inflation to other countries ....

so this how real wars are fought ....


no spamming of guided missiles , no spamming of air strike ...

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503805524982308866

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## jamal18

Pappa Alpha said:


> West Ukraine might join EU


No. Lazarov has made it clear that for the Russians that is unacceptable.


----------



## Amliunion

Mercenaries telling the truth :


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503786076481241095

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## FuturePAF

Foreign volunteers seem to be being used as cannon fodder if this account is true.
In other news stories, Allegations are that the Ukrainians aren’t letting some or many civilians leave cities so they can be used as human shields, so that the Russians won’t go full bore to flatten cities, when the whole world is watching.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503789597331013636


Amliunion said:


> Mercenaries telling the truth :
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503786076481241095


You posted the same time I did

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## dBSPL

Turkish Foreign Minister Çavuşoğlu will go to Moscow tomorrow. The next day he will go to Ukraine. Turkey continues its efforts for a permanent ceasefire.

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## F-22Raptor

OldTwilight said:


> well ,
> 
> well , Russian can't print dollar and exports their inflation to other countries ....
> 
> so this how real wars are fought ....
> 
> 
> no spamming of guided missiles , no spamming of air strike ...




War is not a video game. You want to achieve overmatch over your enemy as soon as possible. Thats why the US will launch as many missiles and air strikes as it takes. Other wise, you get bogged down and humiliated as Russia is today.

The US will never apologize for annihilating its enemies from the air.


----------



## Amliunion

A Ukrainian Journalist giving his assessment on current Conflict:



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503805743811735563


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503809132549263368

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503808435535720456


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503803839492902921


----------



## dBSPL

Russian state of art EW system, Leer 4

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503797641573982212


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503798241774637058

Reactions: Love Love:
1 | Haha Haha:
3 | Wow Wow:
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## OldTwilight

F-22Raptor said:


> War is not a video game. You want to achieve overmatch over your enemy as soon as possible. Thats why the US will launch as many missiles and air strikes as it takes. Other wise, you get bogged down and humiliated as Russia is today.
> 
> The US will never apologize for annihilating its enemies from the air.



that's right , war need money , most countries cant print money and pay for expensive weapons by using them in mass... unlike Usa ...


so , if they think they have a long conflict ahead , they try too use their old equipment first and use low cost ammunition in most of times ....


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503760580154429443

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503739315955933189

Reactions: Like Like:
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## kingQamaR

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503803839492902921



They are also probably forced to make these sorts of statements by their captors. It's always been common practice

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## Apollon

Russian soldiers are so desperate, they now steal chickens and ducks...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501597926577090560

Its funny though. I always think they cant sink any deeper but then they suprise me.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503811682786709505


----------



## kingQamaR

FuturePAF said:


> Foreign volunteers seem to be being used as cannon fodder if this account is true.
> In other news stories, Allegations are that the Ukrainians aren’t letting some of joy many civilians leave cities so they can be used as human shields, and the Russians won’t go full bore to flatten cities, when the whole world is watching.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503789597331013636
> 
> You posted the same time I did



They are all from western Russia and Siberia - they don't count. Much like the 'deplorables' don't count for Washington and New York City


----------



## Apollon

OldTwilight said:


> well , that wont change much , because Russian decided to win by clearing every house ... costly but more stable way of anexing a land
> 
> well , Russian can't print dollar and exports their inflation to other countries ....
> 
> so this how real wars are fought ....
> 
> 
> no spamming of guided missiles , no spamming of air strike ...



Considering Putins weekly losses in Ukraine, he will run out of russian soldiers before Ukrainians run out of manpads.


----------



## dBSPL

Russian UAV record. A Ukrainian ammunition depot was hit near the Chernihiv train station.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503808810523234306


----------



## Apollon

jamal18 said:


> No. Lazarov has made it clear that for the Russians that is unacceptable.



Its not like russia has any say over this.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503811375491129356
Latest Pentagon assessment


----------



## jamal18

Apollon said:


> Its not like russia has any say over this.


I think that you've missed current news.


----------



## OldTwilight

Apollon said:


> Considering Putins weekly losses in Ukraine, he will run out of russian soldiers before Ukrainians run out of manpads.



how much they lost in reality !?


from what I see their man power lose is minimum or else angry soldiers would act more violent and act more with brutality ...

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503812547941654539
Keep depleting your stocks Russia


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503813873694130178

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Titanium100

This is epic listen to it.. This old woman defines what a war hawk means in the flesh 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503602893802332164

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503815200117444609

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Apollon

jamal18 said:


> I think that you've missed current news.



I see that ukraine kicks russias *** and that lawrow cant even fly anymore.


----------



## Tamerlane

gambit said:


> There is an opt-out provision in the EU mutual defense clause. After this Ukraine mess is over, no matter which way, EU members will re-think that clause. As for the US, I was not joking about the US being a member of the EU. Am sure the EU could carve out a provision for the US to allow all parties to maintain their independence.



I’m surprised that you can even imagine that the EU will accept America as a member. The EU is a European alliance and provides full mobility for citizens to live in any country they want. Would they allow America with a 40% non-white population in? That’s giving 120 million blacks, Mexicans and other people of all sorts the right to move to the EU. 

The major reason the British left was because they didn’t want Eastern Europeans moving to their country, especially the Poles. 

With the Germans and other European countries rearming there is an increased potential that they’ll end up creating a European defense alliance as an alternative to NATO. 

How things will play out over a few years may not be exactly how some people imagine.


----------



## Wood

gambit said:


> Subtract the nuclear option for now. This war revealed the true capability of the Russian military overall -- that it is at best a defensive capable military, not one capable of conquest.
> 
> By that, I mean the Russian military seems to be best capable of 'repelling boarders' type of warfare, which is how most of the world's militaries are. *Cross borders means you are expeditionary, which is the US*. A defense capable military can cross borders in the execution of its missions, but the deeper into foreign territory and longer it remains outside its territory, the weaker it become over time because of lack of materiel support which is an economic issue which leads us back to how Russia's economy have been in poor state for so long, which finally reinforce what is known all this time that economic power = military power.


Yes, the US is better at invasion. Especially in handling logistics for their armed forces even in landlocked countries without easy access. But I don't consider that as best for world peace  

Do you expect the Chinese to do better than what Russians have accomplished in Ukraine? I don't know if the Chinese military is set up for expeditions


----------



## Apollon

OldTwilight said:


> how much they lost in reality !?
> 
> 
> from what I see their man power lose is minimum or else angry soldiers would act more violent and act more with brutality ...



So far they lost around 10.000 soldiers. Their entire logistics stalled.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Apollon said:


> The article also mentions china. He says China will drop Putin like a hot potatoe in short time. He failed and China doesnt like losers. He strenghtend the West on the other side Russia more or less will become a chinese vasall, completly dependend. So China gains alot.


Shrug if that's what you really believe then go for it. But you don't seem too confident otherwise why do you need to post 2747462516 articles about how Ukraine is gonna win? Nobody posted that many articles about US beating Iraq. It's a foregone conclusion.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503803494381326349

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503805249693401093

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503806746887872516
Another Galaev thread worth reading.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503768312236421120


----------



## oberschlesier

Meengla said:


> There are mixed signals from Ukraine.
> If you saw a video I posted yesterday where the Ukraine diplomatic adviser gave to an Indian channel. In that video, the advisor asked for iron-clad guarantees backed up by foreign powers for Ukraine's security and for that Ukraine would sign some neutrality agreement with Russia. BUT in the same interview the advisor also used the term 'for the time being' to not ask for Nato membership. Russia, if you recall, had asked for a permanent agreement of neutrality before the war began--actually just a few days before the war began. Russia asked for more than some for the time being agreement.
> 
> Anyway, what Ukraine should fear is that Russia decides to reduce its invasion to eastern and southern parts, consolidates there, use the very considerable Russian ethnic presence, especially in the eastern part, and make the Dnipier River, which is supposed to have only limited crossings, a natural barrier and target the Russian guns on Kiev as blackmail... sort of like North Korea does by targeting Seoul. IF Russia is able to achieve those goals--which are in the realm of possibilities--then Russia will have won the war even if at great cost to itself. I believe in that case Russia will eventually ride out the sanctions.


Yes, it`s seems, this could the scenario right now, but for Russia this is plan C and hardly a victory. They can sell it as a victory to their population, but it`s not a gain in the long run taking into account the costs.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Wood said:


> Yes, the US is better at invasion. Especially in handling logistics for their armed forces even in landlocked countries without easy access. But I don't consider that as best for world peace
> 
> Do you expect the Chinese to do better than what Russians have accomplished in Ukraine? I don't know if the Chinese military is set up for expeditions



Fun fact: the PLA has never fought a tactically defensive war inside China's borders after 1949.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503811743700693000


----------



## NotSure

A MLRS ammo depot was hit with an Iskander BM, after a russian Orlan drone followed 2 BM-21 Grad trucks. Look at the speed, compared to other ballistic missiles!


----------



## LeGenD

Amphibious Assault On Odesa Could Be Imminent According To Satellite Imagery (Updated)​








Amphibious Assault On Odesa Could Be Imminent According To Satellite Imagery (Updated)


There have been fears Russia could launch an offensive to take the strategic Black Sea port city since the invasion began.




www.thedrive.com

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## Apollon

Abramowitch is on the run, sanctioned by EU he lost most of his fortune and is seeked as criminal. Israel told him he is not welcome there ...he cant go EU, cant go UK. Mkst likely escaped to Russia.









„Putins Geldgeber“: Neue Enthüllungen belasten Chelsea-Besitzer Abramowitsch schwer


Schwere Vorwürfe gegen Oligarch Roman Abramowitsch. Der Russe soll die militärischen Bestrebungen von Wladimir Putin mitfinanziert haben. Chelsea-Boss Abramowitsch sei ein enger Vertrauter des russischen Machthabers - und nun angeblich selbst auf der Flucht.




www.focus.de

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## Wood

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503803494381326349
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503805249693401093
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503806746887872516
> Another Galaev thread worth reading.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503768312236421120


Another Kamil thread. YAY! 

He claims to be Kazan Tartar btw. Just about the most anti - Russian person I've read. If the US would listen to him, Russia will be dismantled

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503802940028510208


----------



## Wood

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Fun fact: the PLA has never fought a tactically defensive war inside China's borders after 1949.


Is there something like US marines in PLA? Border conflicts are one thing, but outright invasions are different.


----------



## nang2

Wood said:


> Is there something like US marines in PLA? Border conflicts are one thing, but outright invasions are different.


There is and it is growing. After all, you cannot just walk onto Taiwan. You have to use some sort of boats to get across the water.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503764423739166725


----------



## NotSure

A murican wannabe superhero special forces soldier like F-22 is talking after the reality has hit him very hard. Or should i say he hit the reality with his head?

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## FairAndUnbiased

Wood said:


> Is there something like US marines in PLA? Border conflicts are one thing, but outright invasions are different.



You mean like half of Taiwanese territory in 1950? It used to be Taiwan and Hainan, after March 1950 it's just Taiwan. 

Hainan was separated from mainland by 30 miles of water.

How about Korean War?

PLA has Marines but they're not a "second army", they're actually specialized for amphibious assault and island operations.

The main doctrine of Chinese troops is strategic defense, tactical offense. Stop the enemy before they reach Chinese borders by attacking first and holding their territory as a buffer. Did that in 1950, 1962, 1979...

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## NotSure

Apollon said:


> Abramowitch is on the run, sanctioned by EU he lost most of his fortune and is seeked as criminal. Israel told him he is not welcome there ...he cant go EU, cant go UK. Mkst likely escaped to Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> „Putins Geldgeber“: Neue Enthüllungen belasten Chelsea-Besitzer Abramowitsch schwer
> 
> 
> Schwere Vorwürfe gegen Oligarch Roman Abramowitsch. Der Russe soll die militärischen Bestrebungen von Wladimir Putin mitfinanziert haben. Chelsea-Boss Abramowitsch sei ein enger Vertrauter des russischen Machthabers - und nun angeblich selbst auf der Flucht.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.focus.de


Thank you, westliche Herrenmenschen. Danke, Danke, sagt Russland. Endlich!

The Russian "Propaganda" is saying this the whole time: The west will rob everyone at the first opportunity. And now the anglo saxon controlled west is doing exactly this. Lol.

And the most ridiculous part is: They are really thinking, they are super duper smart. But the reality is: They are consolidating the russian elites. This pro western stupidity started with Chrustchev and the retard Gorbatchev was the culmination.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503804282532859905wow

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Wood

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503804282532859905wow


The Americans cannot sign a domestic infrastructure bill for the love of it. But funding for Ukraine was super fast

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## Apollon

NotSure said:


> Thank you, westliche Herrenmenschen. Danke, Danke, sagt Russland. Endlich!
> 
> The Russian "Propaganda" is saying this the whole time: The west will rob everyone at the first opportunity. And now the anglo saxon controlled west is doing exactly this. Lol.
> 
> And the most ridiculous part is: They are really thinking, they are super duper smart. But the reality is: They are consolidating the russian elites. This pro western stupidity started with Chrustchev and the retard Gorbatchev was the culmination.



Um nope, we just confiscate property from criminals. 

Putin wants to cut all ties with Europe, why should his goons then enjoy europe? Pedro Sanches, president of Spain said it very well. Russian oligarchs can from now on sail on the Barrent Sea. The Med is closed for them.


----------



## gambit

Wood said:


> Yes, the US is better at invasion. Especially in handling logistics for their armed forces even in landlocked countries without easy access. But I don't consider that as best for world peace


The US by way of nature pretty much have no choice but to create an expeditionary military. By 'nature' I mean the two oceans, then not likely Canada and Mexico will be hostiles. Of course, the US can simply exists with state national guards, but if the US is to protect our allies, then the standing army will have to be designed to be expeditionary.



Wood said:


> Do you expect the Chinese to do better than what Russians have accomplished in Ukraine? I don't know if the Chinese military is set up for expeditions


No and no. The implication here is Taiwan, which is the equivalent of Ukraine to Russia, but the critical difference is water vs land. The PLA will have much greater vulnerabilities in strait crossing than the Russian Army running on land to Ukraine, and the PLA knows it. The difference is great enough that the PLA pretty much dismissed using the Russian Army as example of an invasion for Taiwan, instead, the PLA is looking at the occupation parts, particularly the current difficulties the Russians are facing.

Using D-Day for example, the invasion of Taiwan is estimated to be greater than D-Day in terms of resources.







To be truly expeditionary, the PLA would have to successfully (1) invade Taiwan, (2) occupy, and (3) pacify if necessary, of the Taiwanese. Just merely building ships capable of transporting troops will not be enough to create the perception that the PLA is expeditionary capable. The extreme example is Desert Storm. Historically, expeditionary armies lived off the land. The US did not. We shipped everything we needed transhemispherically. No one else done that since. Does the PLA need to replicate that extreme? Not really. But if the PLA cannot militarily defeat Taiwan with those three conditions, the perception that the PLA is expeditionary to US level will not be there.

There is no denying that Taiwan is critical for China in general and to the PLA in particular and I believe that Xi motivated Poutine, compounded by the poor advice from their generals, to invade Ukraine. Xi needed to know what China *WILL* encounter and to what degrees, and sacrificed Ukraine for that.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503798856248696832A large number of abandoned Russian armored vehicles in Bucha
While the US provides cash aid, the Russian army provides ready-to-use equipment directly.

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## F-22Raptor

Wood said:


> The Americans cannot sign a domestic infrastructure bill for the love of it. But funding for Ukraine was super fast




A $1T infrastructure bill was already passed last year


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> A $1T infrastructure bill was already passed last year


Was it?! I did not know.

Has it been signed into law. Last I read, the senate was not ready because even some democrat was unhappy with it.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

MoD Russia, [3/15/2022 4:11 PM]







🗓 Top News Today

❗️ The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation took full control of the entire territory of Kherson region.

💥 The Russian Armed Forces captured a stronghold of nationalists and foreign mercenaries in Ukraine, seized 10 Javelin missile systems and other weapons. All weapons are handed over to the units of the people's militia of the DPR and LPR.

▪️ During the day, more than 500 tons of essential items, including medication and food, were handed over to the civilian population of the liberated areas.

▪️ In total, since the beginning of the operation, 156 UAVs, 1,306 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 127 MLRS, 471 field artillery mounts, as well as 1,054 units of special military vehicles have been destroyed. Operational-tactical, army aviation and unmanned aircraft hit 136 military facilities of Ukraine.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine
@mod_russia_en

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## Wood

gambit said:


> There is no denying that Taiwan is critical for China in general and to the PLA in particular and I believe that Xi motivated Poutine, compounded by the poor advice from their generals, to invade Ukraine. Xi needed to know what China *WILL* encounter and to what degrees, and sacrificed Ukraine for that.


This would be funny as hell if it turns out to be the case. Hollywood can make a sitcom with this plot


----------



## NotSure

Apollon said:


> Um nope, we just confiscate property from criminals.
> 
> Putin wants to cut all ties with Europe, why should his goons then enjoy europe? Pedro Sanches, president of Spain said it very well. Russian oligarchs can from now on sail on the Barrent Sea. The Med is closed for them.


You don't even understand the meaning of the word "criminal". Your answer is so typical for all the western nazis here, i mean there is even a nazi saying for this from the 3. Reich: Recht ist, was dem Volk nuetzt.

Well, go ahead. This serves russia, China and the whole world except the anglo saxon controlled west. Everyone can see, what the west really is. This behavrior is like a booster for the multipolar world.


----------



## gambit

Wood said:


> This would be funny as hell if it turns out to be the case. Hollywood can make a sitcom with this plot


It is not impossible. When you think about it, why not? Military academies all over the world studies past military ventures all over the world, so why should there be any hesitancy in speculations using current geopolitical situations? I have no doubt PLA generals gave Xi their estimations of Russia and Ukraine.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503783853445550083

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## nang2

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503808941179944963


They really need to work on their English. I don't know any hostage is held not against his will. That would be volunteering hostage.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503828594866462720


----------



## Amliunion

Plight of Mercenaries:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503829926612541441

Reactions: Love Love:
1 | Haha Haha:

1


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## Apollon

NotSure said:


> You don't even understand the meaning of the word "criminal". Your answer is so typical for all the western nazis here, i mean there is even a nazi saying for this from the 3. Reich: Recht ist, was dem Volk nuetzt.
> 
> Well, go ahead. This serves russia, China and the whole world except the anglo saxon controlled west. Everyone can see, what the west really is. This behavrior is like a booster for the multipolar world.



I have no problem witb multipolar world as long this criminals are outside europe. Abramowitch lost most of his fortune. I think thats super cool. 

The super yachts alone that were confiscated have 9 billion € value. The EU now owns the worlds greatest super yachts.


----------



## kingQamaR

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503798856248696832A large number of abandoned Russian armored vehicles in Bucha
> While the US provides cash aid, the Russian army provides ready-to-use equipment directly.




as a Young Conscripts, They are not soldiers in there teens just novice conscripts. No food or rations, given bad or broken equipment vs a enemy with thousands of javelins anti tank missiles aimed at them 

shows how little putin thinks of his peoples. I feel bad, this is a Putin made disasters

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## Apollon

dBSPL said:


> A wedding singer in Palestine: "Putin increase the attacks. Send Ukrainian women to Palestine."
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503826825809645570



Thats what we call a sausage fest...only dudes at this party...

But honestly let them sing, they are on absolute bottom anyways.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503831191065145346


----------



## dBSPL

Killed Russian Major General Oleg Mityaev (Ukrainian claim)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503828533210238981

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## Amliunion

Ukrainian fuel depot hit - Nikopol

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503832709843632132


----------



## NotSure

Apollon said:


> I have no problem witb multipolar world *as long this criminals are outside europe.*


This NPC answer alone is so many lightyears away from reality ... omg.

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## Paul2

Tamerlane said:


> I’m surprised that you can even imagine that the EU will accept America as a member. The EU is a European alliance and provides full mobility for citizens to live in any country they want. Would they allow America with a 40% non-white population in? That’s giving 120 million blacks, Mexicans and other people of all sorts the right to move to the EU.
> 
> The major reason the British left was because they didn’t want Eastern Europeans moving to their country, especially the Poles.
> 
> With the Germans and other European countries rearming there is an increased potential that they’ll end up creating a European defense alliance as an alternative to NATO.
> 
> How things will play out over a few years may not be exactly how some people imagine.



Very good counter or pro example depending from what side you look on it is Turkey.

No. 2 military in NATO by conventional firepower. With Turkey, EU would've instantly gained a conventional military parity with both Russia, and the US.

15-10 years ago, Turkey's EU accession talks were well advanced, and still serious.

Once they were on the finish line, one French president had a manhood size problem, and sabotaged further talks, which in a few years resulted in Turkey U-turning from the EU, and likely precipitated the July 15 coup.

EU has no means to counter such "small manhood tantrums" from its core members.

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## Apollon

NotSure said:


> This NPC answer alone is so many lightyears away from reality ... omg.



Let me guess...Ossi? Or as they say in Germany Putims 5th column. Glad you guys have no voting rights over here.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503831927245230086

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503828671097933834

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## Apollon

Paul2 said:


> Very good counter or pro example depending from what side you look on it is Turkey.
> 
> No. 2 military in NATO by conventional firepower. With Turkey, EU would've instantly gained a conventional military parity with both Russia, and the US.
> 
> 15-10 years ago, Turkey's EU accession talks were well advanced, and still serious.
> 
> Once they were on the finish line, one French president had a manhood size problem, and sabotaged further talks, which in a few years resulted in Turkey U-turning from the EU, and likely precipitated the July 15 coup.
> 
> EU has no means to counter such "small manhood tantrums" from its core members.



Turkey can be a partner of EU but never a member. Europe is based on christian culture, heritage and identity and turkey does not fit into that. Thats nothing against Turkey, it simply would not fit. Can you see Turkey to vote for something that profits Greece? 

Turkry is an important partner.


----------



## nang2

Apollon said:


> Turkey can be a partner of EU but never a member. Europe is based on christian culture, heritage and identity and turkey does not fit into that. Thats nothing against Turkey, it simply would not fit. Can you see Turkey to vote for something that profits Greece?
> 
> Turkry is an important partner.


Well, Albania has been trying to get into EU, too. Once that is cleared, I don't think the Christian cultural barrier will remain relevant.


----------



## Apollon

nang2 said:


> Well, Albania has been trying to get into EU, too. Once that is cleared, I don't think the Christian cultural barrier will remain relevant.




Albania for same reason will never join EU. Keep in mind that the vote must be done from all members and that will never happen. Usually in such cases negotiations go on and on for decades.


----------



## nang2

Apollon said:


> Albania for same reason will never join EU. Keep in mind that the vote must be done from all members and that will never happen. Usually in such cases negotiations go on and on for decades.


Would it be a lot easier to clearly state that requirement in EU constitution so people don't have to waste their time?

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## Paul2

dBSPL said:


> Killed Russian Major General Oleg Mityaev (Ukrainian claim)
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503828533210238981



A division (8 btgs) commander.

Russian force in South-East was the most cohesive since the start of the conflict.

Then, I feel, they lost it after doing same "village hopping" as Ukrainians did early in the war.

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## Wood

Apollon said:


> Turkey can be a partner of EU but never a member. Europe is based on* christian culture, heritage and identity *and turkey does not fit into that. Thats nothing against Turkey, it simply would not fit. Can you see Turkey to vote for something that profits Greece?
> 
> Turkry is an important partner.


I've always suspected this to be the ulterior motive. Interesting to see that common EU citizens say this explicitly. But then again, you are a Greek. So you can have more reasons than just that to deny Turkey a seat in EU. Would be interesting to see if EU citizens from the western Europe feel the same


----------



## dBSPL

Paul2 said:


> Very good counter or pro example depending from what side you look on it is Turkey.
> 
> No. 2 military in NATO by conventional firepower. With Turkey, EU would've instantly gained a conventional military parity with both Russia, and the US.
> 
> 15-10 years ago, Turkey's EU accession talks were well advanced, and still serious.
> 
> Once they were on the finish line, one French president had a manhood size problem, and sabotaged further talks, which in a few years resulted in Turkey U-turning from the EU, and likely precipitated the July 15 coup.
> 
> EU has no means to counter such "small manhood tantrums" from its core members.


Turkey's population is almost 90 million. That means almost 100 million with citizens living abroad and dual citizens. Turkey's accession to the EU means that they will be the largest group in the EU parliament. This alone is a sufficient reason why Turkey cannot be accepted.

The role Turkey has set for itself and the way the 'core powers' of the EU want to put Turkey in are very different from each other.

This geopolitical reality is one of the main dynamics of the current UK-Turkey rapprochement. In fact, the main reason for Russia-Turkey rapprochement to be built on solid foundations is in a way related to this.

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503798267368427528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503710389678260231

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503843781564583939


----------



## Tamerlane

nang2 said:


> Well, Albania has been trying to get into EU, too. Once that is cleared, I don't think the Christian cultural barrier will remain relevant.



Most of Europe is post-Christian. Very few people take Christianity seriously. But for them it is an integral part of their historical and cultural identity. They love the beautiful old cathedrals, and the rich art and culture of their Christian forefathers.

A major part of European history teaches them the centuries of war with Muslims. There were times when Turkish armies were besieging Vienna and Europe was in danger of being overrun by Muslims. All that is taught to them and makes up a major part of who they are.

Even if they leave Christianity as a religion they will never allow a large Muslim country like Turkey in. All they do is give Turkey hope to keep it dangling so that it stays away from going full Ottoman. Islamic revival is one of the nightmares that keeps European thinkers awake in the night.

I've known all my life that they'll never let Turkey in, but the Turks don't seem to have given up hope. I can't say about Albania, it's only a little country, but most probably they'll also never be let in.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503668377289584640
This twitter thread is supposedly Putin's plan of action that is leaked by an FSB insider. The script says that Putin's plan for next few days is to declare threats against NATO and bully them into accepting favorable terms. Apparently, Putin is very confident that this threat based tactic would succeed and NATO will eventually disintegrate.

The internet is full of such conspiracies, but thought people may find this an amusing read.

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## The SC

The American Javelin is in the possession of the Russian Airborne Special Forces, after fierce clashes in which a Ukrainian army unit was exterminated and 8 vehicles and 3 armored vehicles were destroyed..

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## dBSPL

Ukrainian intelligence: We expect the Russian army to start landing operation in Odessa in 4 hours.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503834716205727744

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## patero

dBSPL said:


> A wedding singer in Palestine: "Putin increase the attacks. Send Ukrainian women to Palestine."
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503826825809645570


A bit tasteless and insensitive. What's wrong with Palestinian women?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503839257647005706

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## dBSPL

The Odessa operation is important. After Russia separates Ukraine from the Black Sea, it will have achieved most of its goals.

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## beast89

Amliunion said:


> Plight of Mercenaries:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503829926612541441


lol the dude with neck beard gave an interview on abc.

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## dBSPL

The world is on the brink of the Third World War

—Danilov, Head of National Security of Ukraine


----------



## CrazyZ

Amliunion said:


> Plight of Mercenaries:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503829926612541441


Come on man your canon fodder. If the guy next to gets killed........pick up his gear and use it.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503804626226851852

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## beast89

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503828671097933834


looks like a syrian head chopper yet talking about purity


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## dBSPL

how to use various AT launchers

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503836467319218180


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503843900884201480
More Starlinks have arrived

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## CrazyZ

Paul2 said:


> Very good counter or pro example depending from what side you look on it is Turkey.
> 
> No. 2 military in NATO by conventional firepower. With Turkey, EU would've instantly gained a conventional military parity with both Russia, and the US.
> 
> 15-10 years ago, Turkey's EU accession talks were well advanced, and still serious.
> 
> Once they were on the finish line, one French president had a manhood size problem, and sabotaged further talks, which in a few years resulted in Turkey U-turning from the EU, and likely precipitated the July 15 coup.
> 
> EU has no means to counter such "small manhood tantrums" from its core members.


If the EU was smarter then it would expand membership into MENA. Remember the Romans were a Mediterranean empire. This would also resolve their energy problems.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503848432934572041


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## The SC

UN: More than 3 million Ukrainians have left because of the war


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503799931072659456


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## NotSure

The sanctions are working very fine:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503765148787523589

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## CrazyZ

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503804626226851852


Russians have huge amounts of artillery.......no amount of fighting rag tag insurgents in MENA will prepare you for "steel rain".

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503850156806004746

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503831183288942595

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503699449805262851


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## Amliunion

This will start World War III which US, NATO & EU don't want to start by covering Ukrainian Sky:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503847327521554435

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## jamal18

Foreign volunteers unhappy story.



https://twitter.com/home


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503846953125359616

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Dayum.. Putin is badass calculative individual he wants to take out the west


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503668377289584640




Igor Sushko
@igorsushko
·
12 t

Svarer
@igorsushko
As always, my comments for clarification are in parenthesis. So, let's roll: “It appears World War III has begun; our guys are opening champagne - the war between Iran and the United States disrupts the nuclear deal and blocks the ability to replace Russian oil with Iranian oil.







Igor Sushko
@igorsushko
·
12 t

The inevitable shutdown of the Strait of Hormuz will cause oil to skyrocket in price. I have no idea why Iran chose to shoot itself in the foot.







Igor Sushko
@igorsushko
·
12 t

I’m could even believe in the existence of some kind of generally incomprehensible agreements (between Russia & Iran), but I don’t have a single fact that supports this.









Igor Sushko
@igorsushko
·
12 t

Today I just want to convey information about the impending "exit" for Russia through our eyes (FSB as an organization, not #WindofChange individually) and the "courtiers" at the Kremlin. (Reference to a royal court under a King)







Igor Sushko
@igorsushko
·
12 t

This is not a “copy,” (of the actual brief) but an extremely accurate retelling, so you can do with this as you wish, including full publication without any redactions.









Igor Sushko
@igorsushko
·
12 t

Currently there is only an outline, and a final report will be much more voluminous, detailed, and more concrete as the work has only just begun.









Igor Sushko
@igorsushko
·
12 t

Afterward I will try to provide my own thoughts (on this new plan) as I am currently pre-occupied with the situation of the Iranian-American conflict. The “Gordian Knot” will definitely be seriously revised/adapted (because of Iran launching a missile at the US base in Iraq).








Igor Sushko
@igorsushko
·
12 t

Operation “Gordian Knot” 1st Stage: Most likely, Konashenkov (Major General, chief spokesman for the Russian Ministry of Defence) will officially declare at a briefing that Europe and the “collective West” have declared war on Russia







Igor Sushko
@igorsushko
·
12 t

by intervening in the Ukrainian conflict with their weapons and mercenaries, while simultaneously attacking Russia in the economic plane (sanctions).







Igor Sushko
@igorsushko
·
12 t

There will be an extended lecture that war is not contained to military operations on the battlefield, but it includes an array of aggressive actions aimed at causing direct damage to the opponent. That the West’s action de-facto unleashed a world war.






Igor Sushko
@igorsushko
·
12 t

That this war has not yet moved into the “hot stage” with missiles and tanks only because Putin, as the supreme commander in chief, did not give such an order. Nevertheless, Konashenkov will declare that the third world war has begun.





Igor Sushko
@igorsushko
·
12 t

2nd Stage: Assessment of the reaction (by the West) – 1-2 days.





Igor Sushko
@igorsushko
·
12 t

3rd Stage: Putin will make a speech. In this long lecture he will declare that the modern world is not as it was before, that war now includes cyber attacks, preparation of biological attacks, direct attacks, training of terrorist & saboteurs, and devastating economic sanctions.






Igor Sushko
@igorsushko
·
12 t

He [allegedly] does not want war, but the West has already started it (against Russia). As a result, (Russian) response need not be symmetrical and can respond to any act of aggression with any means available in a military confrontation.






Igor Sushko
@igorsushko
·
12 t

“I warned with Ukraine – but nobody listened” (Putin’s message). Russia has shown that its words (threats) are not empty.






Igor Sushko
@igorsushko
·
12 t

Putin will declare that he is ready to come to terms (forgive) with what the West has already done, but only if sanctions are lifted within 24 hours, all assistance to Ukraine is stopped, and that NATO will guarantee not to expand.

4th Stage: A fierce negotiation process (between Russia and the West) – in the initial hours Putin will be conspicuously unavailable for communication (with the West). Other countries’ presidents will be obliged to discuss issues with Putin’s aides – “or not at all.”

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## Iron Shrappenel

dBSPL said:


> The world is on the brink of the Third World War
> 
> —Danilov, Head of National Security of Ukraine


European wars shouldn't be called as world wars anymore... I don't think any of the other significant military powers outside Europe and Americas are interested in escalating it to a global level...


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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> The Soviets would have eventually prevailed over the Nazis despite the Nazis getting fighting forces and (often willing) resources from all the land they had occupied in Europe. American helped just hastened the fall of Berlin. BTW, sympathy for the Nazi ideology, anti-Semitism and eugenics was rampant in Europe leading up to WW 2. Germany gets singled out for those trends because the truth would be too inconvenient.
> Coming back to the topic: The highlighted part: Yes, that's the humble pie Putin AND Zellensky is likely to eat. And hurry up guys!


Let me just add that the nazis Banned human zoos in europe. because people used to go to the zoo in Belgium and other places to see "natives" in cages. A black man in Nazi Germany could go to a restaurant, in America it was illegal for blacks to go into a restaurant until 1960's in many places, Just putting it in perspective in case any of you think nazism is something unusually out of character for white people. Or the be all and end all of evil.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503801660820312073


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## CrazyZ

If he had accepted this in the before this conflict started......he could have avoided so much death and destruction.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Igor Sushko

@igorsushko
·
12 t

- Powerful movements will be activated inside Western countries aimed to both support Russia and recognize it as a “defending side.”


6

62

282













Igor Sushko

@igorsushko
·
12 t

A number of anti-war movements not necessarily in support of Russia but which will create an impossible environment for their governments to make a pro-war decision;


3

57

288













Igor Sushko

@igorsushko
·
12 t

- Global nuclear war will not happen;


8

64

362













Igor Sushko

@igorsushko
·
12 t

- The Ukraine question will be resolved with finality – by the West. (END OF TRANSLATION)


36

51

353













Igor Sushko

@igorsushko
·
11 t

Full translation of the 6th #FSBletters written by #WindofChange from inside the FSB in article form is available here: http://igorsushko.com


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## fallschirmjager786

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503850871402156036
Higher quality equipment captured by the Ukrainians.

Looks like the Russians are giving up on Kiev and instead focusing on their success to the South and South East. Odessa's capture will likely be the key focus for Putin before the peace talks conclude. Looks like their stalling to see if they can get something in Odessa.

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## Ali_Baba

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503804626226851852



hmmm - that would need confirmation. Sounds like fake news to me.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503851648317333508

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## Iron Shrappenel

CrazyZ said:


> Russians have huge amounts of artillery.......no amount of fighting rag insurgents in MENA will prepare you for "steel rain".


Idk if he's actually dead or not... But sad moment... for a loss of life... These guys thought that it would be the same as Iraq or Afghanistan not realizing how different both the scenarios were and how unfair the situation was for the Taliban and Iraqis..... Coming to Ukraine for a taste of old glory would leave you with a bloody nose... The first of which can be seen in videos shared here...

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## CrazyZ

Ali_Baba said:


> hmmm - that would need confirmation. Sounds like fake news to me.


Half the stuff on this post is fake news. What's one more.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Putin expects the West to blink in the face of his threats - 6th letter from the Wind of Change inside the FSB​My translation of the 6th #FSBletters in the series from #WindofChange inside the FSB to Vladimir Osechkin. Written March 13th. Highly time-sensitive information of what to expect from Putin in the coming days. The text is over 1500 words.
As always, my comments for clarification are in parenthesis. So, let's roll:

“It appears World War III has begun; our guys are opening champagne - the war between Iran and the United States disrupts the nuclear deal and blocks the ability to replace Russian oil with Iranian oil. The inevitable shutdown of the Strait of Hormuz will cause oil to skyrocket in price. I have no idea why Iran chose to shoot itself in the foot. I’m could even believe in the existence of some kind of generally incomprehensible agreements (between Russia & Iran), but I don’t have a single fact that supports this.

Today I just want to convey information about the impending "exit" for Russia through our eyes (FSB as an organization, not #WindofChange individually) and the "courtiers" at the Kremlin. (Reference to a royal court under a King)

This is not a “copy,” (of the actual brief) but an extremely accurate retelling, so you can do with this as you wish, including full publication without any redactions.

Currently there is only an outline, and a final report will be much more voluminous, detailed, and more concrete as the work has only just begun. Afterward I will try to provide my own input (on this new plan) as I am currently pre-occupied with the situation of the Iranian-American conflict. The “Gordian Knot” will definitely be seriously revised/adapted (because of Iran launching a missile at the US base in Iraq).

Operation “Gordian Knot”

1st Stage: Most likely, Konashenkov (Major General, chief spokesman for the Russian Ministry of Defence) will officially declare at a briefing that Europe and the “collective West” have declared war on Russia by intervening in the Ukrainian conflict with their weapons and mercenaries, while simultaneously attacking Russia in the economic plane (sanctions). There will be an extended lecture that war is not contained to military operations on the battlefield, but it includes an array of aggressive actions aimed at causing direct damage to the opponent. That the West’s action de-facto unleashed a world war. That this war has not yet moved into the “hot stage” with missiles and tanks only because Putin, as the supreme commander in chief, did not give such an order. Nevertheless, Konashenkov will declare that the third world war has begun.

2nd Stage: Assessment of the reaction (by the West) – 1-2 days.

3rd Stage: Putin will make a speech. In this long lecture he will declare that the modern world is not as it was before, that war now includes cyber attacks, preparation of biological attacks, direct attacks, training of terrorist & saboteurs, and imposing of sanctions devastating to the economy. He [allegedly] does not want war, but the West has already started it (against Russia). As a result, (Russian) response need not be symmetrical and can respond to any act of aggression with any means available in a military confrontation. “I warned with Ukraine – but nobody listened” (Putin’s message). Russia has shown that its words (threats) are not empty. Putin will declare that he is ready to come to terms (forgive) with what the West has already done, but only if sanctions are lifted within 24 hours, all assistance to Ukraine is stopped, and that NATO will guarantee not to expand. (Still Putin’s upcoming speech) Otherwise, Russia will have no choice but to accept the war and respond with all available means.

4th Stage: A fierce negotiation process (between Russia and the West) – in the initial hours Putin will be conspicuously unavailable for communication (with the West). Other countries’ presidents will be obliged to discuss issues with Putin’s aides – “or not at all.”

Putin's demonstrative private phone calls will begin with the leaders of countries that Russia is betting on: Serbia, Hungary, China, the Arab world, African countries and Asian countries.

Assessing the situation of the West’s readiness to respond to the challenge, agents of political influence will be activated. They will call to “immediately fulfill Russia’s just demands, and not drag the world into a new war” - here the task is to quickly propagate the message that “the war was unleashed by the West, but Russia cannot not to answer.”

Stage 5: Based on the assessment of the situation over the following 24 hours, the following options are possible:

1) West blinks and is prepared to make local concessions. In this instance the following position will be voiced: “we have been heard, there are positive signals and we consider this a factor that allows us to delay making a final decision." (Whether to start military operations against the West) Putin will set aside several days for the negotiation process, after which he will “make a decision.” In this scenario the West is given time to go through stages from denial to acceptance – practically all that will remain is to extract maximal concessions (from the West), which will turn out to be the most significant. The maximal objective is to sign a new international treaty of a global nature (total appeasement of Russia)


2) The West does not comply, but openly does not want war. In this instance “military targets” will be demonstrably identified: Poland and the Baltic countries. Moreover, identification of “limited targets” in these countries is possible, with a public appeal to civilians not to be near these objects. Immediately after this, a super-intensive format of negotiations will start, with a key goal of forcing the West to reject all support for Ukraine and a possible “compelling of Ukraine to peace” by the West. Strategic aviation and nuclear triad will be activated, and a No Fly Zone may be declared over these countries (by Russia). Chances of success (for desired concessions from the West) are considered to be highly realistic (if it gets to this point). Otherwise, localized missile strikes (against Poland and Baltics) will be almost inevitable.
3. 3) The West does not comply and demonstrates readiness for war in response. This scenario is considered to be extremely unlikely. In this instance cyber attacks will be launched on key infrastructure facilities of Western countries. Russia will not take direct responsibility, while actively "moving" its forces of the (nuclear) triad. With this development of events, the risks of the West using military methods to respond are assessed as negligible, which gives Russia room to maneuver to conduct an indirect war to create unacceptable conditions for the West with the risk of total economic collapse. After this, negotiations are considered inevitable and will result in the scenario #2 above. And –
4. 4) In the case of an absence of clear coordinated signals (from the West), which is assessed as unlikely but acceptable, the (Russian) behavior will be similar to scenario #2 above (as well).
5. 5) A fundamental collapse of the West within the time allotted (by Putin) after the ultimatum was issued. Rejection of “collective security”: Withdrawal of several countries from NATO (and possibly European Union), each with separate appeals to Russia that they are not conducting aggressive actions against Russia and they are not part of the possible war. Then everything will default back to scenario #1 above, but Russia’s strength in position (for negotiations) will be comparable to that of the USSR. In the future, this will allow Russia to take political control of a number of countries that were part of the USSR. NATO as an integral structure will cease to exist.
6) A fundamental collapse of the West, but with a clear separation of a number of countries [Poland and the Baltics] from the moderate position of other countries. (Here, #WindofChange means a scenario in which NATO tries to appease Russia but Poland and the Baltics refuse to stand down to Russia) In this case the “pro-Russian wing” of the Western countries will accuse these countries (Poland/Baltics) of fomenting conflict along with a demand “not to drag our governments into someone else’s conflict.” Russia's objective in this scenario is to apply maximum pressure on Western countries with a moderate position, demanding that they “keep the aggressors (Poland/Baltics) from reckless actions." In this situation, within a period of 3 to 7 days, Western countries with a moderate position will be ready to accept local strikes against countries with radically irreconcilable countries (Poland/Baltics), after which missile strikes [on military targets] will be launched on them (Poland/Baltics). Direct infantry invasion is considered acceptable but unlikely.
For all the above (six) scenarios, these assumptions are assessed as extremely probable:

- Arab countries, Iran, China, some African countries, and [presumably] India and Brazil will take neutrality with a general condemnation of "mutual aggression";

- Some European countries are guaranteed not to support military confrontation: Italy, Hungary, Serbia, possibly France;

- Powerful movements will be activated inside Western countries aimed to both support Russia and recognize it as a “defending side.” A number of anti-war movements not necessarily in support of Russia but which will create an impossible environment for their governments to make a pro-war decision;

- Global nuclear war will not happen;

- The Ukraine question will be resolved with finality – by the West.









Igor Sushko - #FSBletters from the Wind of Change inside the FSB (KGB) - Racing & Beyond


Learn about the origins & context of the #FSBletters from the #WindofChange to Vladimir Osechkin, a Russian human-rights activist exiled in France.




www.igorsushko.com





---------------------------------------------

The Guy is dangerous and probably way way more dangerous then previously assumed

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## oberschlesier

CrazyZ said:


> If he had accepted this in the before this conflict started......he could have avoided so much death and destruction.


Nope, still the problem with Crimeria and Donbass would be there. The Problem started in 2014 with the annexation of Crimeria.


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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503850871402156036


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## Iron Shrappenel

CrazyZ said:


> If he had accepted this in the before this conflict started......he could have avoided so much death and destruction.


This lunatic burned all of the industrial base of the country to the damn ground... Yet some people are still cheering them on to fight on... For what ? Complete leveling of Ukrainian cities ?? Seems like both parties would be happy with that... As a wild card market competitor in global arms has been turned to ash.

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## The SC

Ali_Baba said:


> hmmm - that would need confirmation. Sounds like fake news to me.


Not sure about it either.. but too many tweets about it already!


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## fallschirmjager786

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503828594866462720
Russians keep donating tanks to the Ukrainian defense forces.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503855192625737734
Day by day NATO inches closer to getting involved.


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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503850156806004746



The sad thing is that the economy of the EU is as large/equal to that of the American economy - but they force Americans to defend them as they dont want to pay for defence for themselves..

Hopefully all those clowns have had the mother of all wake up calls.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CrazyZ

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503855192625737734
> Day by day NATO inches closer to getting involved.


Hold on boys. I'm not done with my bunker yet.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503819817861664773


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## Beny Karachun

nangyale said:


> The post war order is coming to an end. Yesterday's sureties doesn't look so solid any more.
> Pray that Russians don't get pissed enough with your shenanigans in Ukraine that they give a green light to the Iranians.


Lol with their performance in Ukraine we might as well conquer Moscow lmfao

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## CrazyZ

Pehalwan Pintu Dedha said:


> Is it better than Turkish one ? I learnt only Americans and Israelis has better drones than Turkish.


Turkish drones are much better then American or Israeli ones from a value perspective. One Predator is 25X more expensive then TB2. TB2 is battle proven up against far better AD then anything Israeli or American drones have faced.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## oberschlesier

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Putin expects the West to blink in the face of his threats - 6th letter from the Wind of Change inside the FSB​My translation of the 6th #FSBletters in the series from #WindofChange inside the FSB to Vladimir Osechkin. Written March 13th. Highly time-sensitive information of what to expect from Putin in the coming days. The text is over 1500 words.
> As always, my comments for clarification are in parenthesis. So, let's roll:
> 
> “It appears World War III has begun; our guys are opening champagne - the war between Iran and the United States disrupts the nuclear deal and blocks the ability to replace Russian oil with Iranian oil. The inevitable shutdown of the Strait of Hormuz will cause oil to skyrocket in price. I have no idea why Iran chose to shoot itself in the foot. I’m could even believe in the existence of some kind of generally incomprehensible agreements (between Russia & Iran), but I don’t have a single fact that supports this.
> 
> Today I just want to convey information about the impending "exit" for Russia through our eyes (FSB as an organization, not #WindofChange individually) and the "courtiers" at the Kremlin. (Reference to a royal court under a King)
> 
> This is not a “copy,” (of the actual brief) but an extremely accurate retelling, so you can do with this as you wish, including full publication without any redactions.
> 
> Currently there is only an outline, and a final report will be much more voluminous, detailed, and more concrete as the work has only just begun. Afterward I will try to provide my own input (on this new plan) as I am currently pre-occupied with the situation of the Iranian-American conflict. The “Gordian Knot” will definitely be seriously revised/adapted (because of Iran launching a missile at the US base in Iraq).
> 
> Operation “Gordian Knot”
> 
> 1st Stage: Most likely, Konashenkov (Major General, chief spokesman for the Russian Ministry of Defence) will officially declare at a briefing that Europe and the “collective West” have declared war on Russia by intervening in the Ukrainian conflict with their weapons and mercenaries, while simultaneously attacking Russia in the economic plane (sanctions). There will be an extended lecture that war is not contained to military operations on the battlefield, but it includes an array of aggressive actions aimed at causing direct damage to the opponent. That the West’s action de-facto unleashed a world war. That this war has not yet moved into the “hot stage” with missiles and tanks only because Putin, as the supreme commander in chief, did not give such an order. Nevertheless, Konashenkov will declare that the third world war has begun.
> 
> 2nd Stage: Assessment of the reaction (by the West) – 1-2 days.
> 
> 3rd Stage: Putin will make a speech. In this long lecture he will declare that the modern world is not as it was before, that war now includes cyber attacks, preparation of biological attacks, direct attacks, training of terrorist & saboteurs, and imposing of sanctions devastating to the economy. He [allegedly] does not want war, but the West has already started it (against Russia). As a result, (Russian) response need not be symmetrical and can respond to any act of aggression with any means available in a military confrontation. “I warned with Ukraine – but nobody listened” (Putin’s message). Russia has shown that its words (threats) are not empty. Putin will declare that he is ready to come to terms (forgive) with what the West has already done, but only if sanctions are lifted within 24 hours, all assistance to Ukraine is stopped, and that NATO will guarantee not to expand. (Still Putin’s upcoming speech) Otherwise, Russia will have no choice but to accept the war and respond with all available means.
> 
> 4th Stage: A fierce negotiation process (between Russia and the West) – in the initial hours Putin will be conspicuously unavailable for communication (with the West). Other countries’ presidents will be obliged to discuss issues with Putin’s aides – “or not at all.”
> 
> Putin's demonstrative private phone calls will begin with the leaders of countries that Russia is betting on: Serbia, Hungary, China, the Arab world, African countries and Asian countries.
> 
> Assessing the situation of the West’s readiness to respond to the challenge, agents of political influence will be activated. They will call to “immediately fulfill Russia’s just demands, and not drag the world into a new war” - here the task is to quickly propagate the message that “the war was unleashed by the West, but Russia cannot not to answer.”
> 
> Stage 5: Based on the assessment of the situation over the following 24 hours, the following options are possible:
> 
> 1) West blinks and is prepared to make local concessions. In this instance the following position will be voiced: “we have been heard, there are positive signals and we consider this a factor that allows us to delay making a final decision." (Whether to start military operations against the West) Putin will set aside several days for the negotiation process, after which he will “make a decision.” In this scenario the West is given time to go through stages from denial to acceptance – practically all that will remain is to extract maximal concessions (from the West), which will turn out to be the most significant. The maximal objective is to sign a new international treaty of a global nature (total appeasement of Russia)
> 
> 
> 2) The West does not comply, but openly does not want war. In this instance “military targets” will be demonstrably identified: Poland and the Baltic countries. Moreover, identification of “limited targets” in these countries is possible, with a public appeal to civilians not to be near these objects. Immediately after this, a super-intensive format of negotiations will start, with a key goal of forcing the West to reject all support for Ukraine and a possible “compelling of Ukraine to peace” by the West. Strategic aviation and nuclear triad will be activated, and a No Fly Zone may be declared over these countries (by Russia). Chances of success (for desired concessions from the West) are considered to be highly realistic (if it gets to this point). Otherwise, localized missile strikes (against Poland and Baltics) will be almost inevitable.
> 3. 3) The West does not comply and demonstrates readiness for war in response. This scenario is considered to be extremely unlikely. In this instance cyber attacks will be launched on key infrastructure facilities of Western countries. Russia will not take direct responsibility, while actively "moving" its forces of the (nuclear) triad. With this development of events, the risks of the West using military methods to respond are assessed as negligible, which gives Russia room to maneuver to conduct an indirect war to create unacceptable conditions for the West with the risk of total economic collapse. After this, negotiations are considered inevitable and will result in the scenario #2 above. And –
> 4. 4) In the case of an absence of clear coordinated signals (from the West), which is assessed as unlikely but acceptable, the (Russian) behavior will be similar to scenario #2 above (as well).
> 5. 5) A fundamental collapse of the West within the time allotted (by Putin) after the ultimatum was issued. Rejection of “collective security”: Withdrawal of several countries from NATO (and possibly European Union), each with separate appeals to Russia that they are not conducting aggressive actions against Russia and they are not part of the possible war. Then everything will default back to scenario #1 above, but Russia’s strength in position (for negotiations) will be comparable to that of the USSR. In the future, this will allow Russia to take political control of a number of countries that were part of the USSR. NATO as an integral structure will cease to exist.
> 6) A fundamental collapse of the West, but with a clear separation of a number of countries [Poland and the Baltics] from the moderate position of other countries. (Here, #WindofChange means a scenario in which NATO tries to appease Russia but Poland and the Baltics refuse to stand down to Russia) In this case the “pro-Russian wing” of the Western countries will accuse these countries (Poland/Baltics) of fomenting conflict along with a demand “not to drag our governments into someone else’s conflict.” Russia's objective in this scenario is to apply maximum pressure on Western countries with a moderate position, demanding that they “keep the aggressors (Poland/Baltics) from reckless actions." In this situation, within a period of 3 to 7 days, Western countries with a moderate position will be ready to accept local strikes against countries with radically irreconcilable countries (Poland/Baltics), after which missile strikes [on military targets] will be launched on them (Poland/Baltics). Direct infantry invasion is considered acceptable but unlikely.
> For all the above (six) scenarios, these assumptions are assessed as extremely probable:
> 
> - Arab countries, Iran, China, some African countries, and [presumably] India and Brazil will take neutrality with a general condemnation of "mutual aggression";
> 
> - Some European countries are guaranteed not to support military confrontation: Italy, Hungary, Serbia, possibly France;
> 
> - Powerful movements will be activated inside Western countries aimed to both support Russia and recognize it as a “defending side.” A number of anti-war movements not necessarily in support of Russia but which will create an impossible environment for their governments to make a pro-war decision;
> 
> - Global nuclear war will not happen;
> 
> - The Ukraine question will be resolved with finality – by the West.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igor Sushko - #FSBletters from the Wind of Change inside the FSB (KGB) - Racing & Beyond
> 
> 
> Learn about the origins & context of the #FSBletters from the #WindofChange to Vladimir Osechkin, a Russian human-rights activist exiled in France.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.igorsushko.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------
> 
> The Guy is dangerous and probably way way more dangerous then previously assumed


Yeah, I want see it how this done. It again works on the miscalculation, that the West is "weak and decadent". Anyway, in reality the Ukraininas are fighing the Russian, not the "West"


----------



## Beny Karachun

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503819817861664773


"Guys, Ukraine shooting down Su-34s and Ka52s and blowing up hundreds of tanks is totally part of the plan! It's all Putin's 4D chess plan, even the logistical catastrophe, trust me guys!"

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## thetutle

Apollon said:


> Im not a big fan of showing face of fallen soldiers. No matter whats going on but imagine his family sees this.


Yes its wrong. But the family can tell others of their tragedy and dissuade others form partaking in this criminal act. Many Russians believe this is a cost free exercise. Things like this will try to convince them that this is not the case.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503832492956078082

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503859259435622403


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## FairAndUnbiased

gambit said:


> The US by way of nature pretty much have no choice but to create an expeditionary military. By 'nature' I mean the two oceans, then not likely Canada and Mexico will be hostiles. Of course, the US can simply exists with state national guards, but if the US is to protect our allies, then the standing army will have to be designed to be expeditionary.
> 
> 
> No and no. The implication here is Taiwan, which is the equivalent of Ukraine to Russia, but the critical difference is water vs land. The PLA will have much greater vulnerabilities in strait crossing than the Russian Army running on land to Ukraine, and the PLA knows it. The difference is great enough that the PLA pretty much dismissed using the Russian Army as example of an invasion for Taiwan, instead, the PLA is looking at the occupation parts, particularly the current difficulties the Russians are facing.
> 
> Using D-Day for example, the invasion of Taiwan is estimated to be greater than D-Day in terms of resources.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be truly expeditionary, the PLA would have to successfully (1) invade Taiwan, (2) occupy, and (3) pacify if necessary, of the Taiwanese. Just merely building ships capable of transporting troops will not be enough to create the perception that the PLA is expeditionary capable. The extreme example is Desert Storm. Historically, expeditionary armies lived off the land. The US did not. We shipped everything we needed transhemispherically. No one else done that since. Does the PLA need to replicate that extreme? Not really. But if the PLA cannot militarily defeat Taiwan with those three conditions, the perception that the PLA is expeditionary to US level will not be there.
> 
> There is no denying that Taiwan is critical for China in general and to the PLA in particular and I believe that Xi motivated Poutine, compounded by the poor advice from their generals, to invade Ukraine. Xi needed to know what China *WILL* encounter and to what degrees, and sacrificed Ukraine for that.



Unlike Ukraine, the navy is in play for Taiwan, and the PLAN dominates the ROCN in every category.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503845924883382274


----------



## Beny Karachun

CrazyZ said:


> Turkish drones are much better then American or Israeli ones from a value perspective. One Predator is 25X more expensive then TB2. TB2 is battle proven up against far better AD then anything Israeli or American drones have faced.


No they aren't lol. Predator drones are of different class and different missions and are capable of carrying way more than TB2.
Israeli drone like Hermes 450 is in the same class as TB-2 and can do whatever the TB-2 does. Israel doesn't showcase munitions fired from its drones for its reasons. 


Israeli HAROP suicide SEAD drone destroyed S-300 , TOR2M











FairAndUnbiased said:


> Unlike Ukraine, the navy is in play for Taiwan, and the PLAN dominates the ROCN in every category.


Navy doesn't win wars


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503833630652706831


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## gambit

CrazyZ said:


> *If he had accepted this* in the before this conflict started......he could have avoided so much death and destruction.


How far do *YOU* want to take that argument? How about Israel admonish the Palestinians the same way, that: If you had accepted this...

What you said is dangerous beyond this situation. It means on every continent, the current great power would make 'might is right' the dominant foreign affairs policy. If you do not like my offer, here are my weapons array. All you have to do is accept my offer of submission to avoid so much death and destruction.


----------



## thetutle

Apollon said:


> This one is brutal. Direct hit on russian tank.


at 0:22 there is a nan running out of a tank.


----------



## Wood

The Russians are said to have used close to a 1000 missiles of different kinds in this war in Ukraine. Is this some sort of world record? I don't know if Americans used more in Iraq


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## fallschirmjager786

thetutle said:


> at 0:22 there is a nan running out of a tank.



Looks like a mine/IED or possible unmanned RPG shot from the building to the right. In any case, thats the end of that. That man burning is brutal!


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## Beny Karachun

gambit said:


> How far do *YOU* want to take that argument? How about Israel admonish the Palestinians the same way, that: If you had accepted this...
> 
> What you said is dangerous beyond this situation. It means on every continent, the current great power would make 'might is right' the dominant foreign affairs policy. If you do not like my offer, here are my weapons array. All you have to do is accept my offer of submission to avoid so much death and destruction.


Israel doesn't want the Palestinians though lol, it never did, it wanted to give Gaza away to Egypt, after a while we just blocked them off with walls to stop their terrorism.


----------



## Vergennes

lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503864820239634446

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## FuturePAF

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503845924883382274



Erdogan should really ditch buying anymore weapons from Russia. It’s ultimately a dead end and ruins the image of Turkey when they earning really brownie points supplying drones to Ukraine and NATO nations. IMHO, Turkey should make a visible declaration of a break from buying anymore Russian Arms. (Turkey can still get Russian derived products from China)

Spend the money reverse engineering the S-400s and selling the Ukrainians drones in exchange for modern Russian technology captured off the battlefield. Turkey needs to get back into buying western equipment, especially as the west ramps up spending on defense. A lot of R&D contracts and joint ventures with European companies, that can be done, where money and ToT can be procured on more modern equipment then Russia has to offer.

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## fallschirmjager786

Vergennes said:


> lmao
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503864820239634446



Heard there was a follow up assault with even more damage...



FuturePAF said:


> Erdogan should really ditch buying anymore weapons from Russia. Spend the money reverse engineering the S-400s and selling the Ukrainians drones in exchange for modern Russian technology captured off the battlefield. Turkey needs to get back into buying western equipment, especially as the west ramps up spending on defense. A lot of R&D contracts and joint ventures with European companies, that can be done, where money and ToT can be procured on more modern equipment then Russia has to offer.



Erdogan just playing the game. I think their focused on indigenous development. I'm sure Russia is not happy with the Turks with regards to the TB-2 decimating their forces.

If anything, i anticipate possible thawing of relations between the US and Turkey that allows Turkey to get its F-16s updated and maybe even a way into the F35 program.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503722683955138560

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## FuturePAF

kingQamaR said:


> They are all from western Russia and Siberia - they don't count. Much like the 'deplorables' don't count for Washington and New York City


They don’t count to the Ukrainian government? Or the Russian government?


----------



## Beny Karachun

FuturePAF said:


> Erdogan should really ditch buying anymore weapons from Russia. It’s ultimately a dead end and ruins the image of Turkey when they earning really brownie points supplying drones to Ukraine and NATO nations. IMHO, Turkey should make a visible declaration of a break from buying anymore Russian Arms. (Turkey can still get Russian derived products from China)
> 
> Spend the money reverse engineering the S-400s and selling the Ukrainians drones in exchange for modern Russian technology captured off the battlefield. Turkey needs to get back into buying western equipment, especially as the west ramps up spending on defense. A lot of R&D contracts and joint ventures with European companies, that can be done, where money and ToT can be procured on more modern equipment then Russia has to offer.


Erdogan is honestly a moron, I have yet to see someone act as carelessly as he does.

He shot down a Russian jet , bought the S-400 to apologize and now has been blocked from having the F-35, and now Russian air defenses show massive vulnerabilities.

He ****ed up his relations with Israel, calling us all Nazis and now invited the Israeli president and begs normalize relations (Turkish gesture, not Israeli)

Called the Europeans Nazis.

Ruined the Turkish lira.

For your own sake Turks, vote for someone else that's sane



The SC said:


> View attachment 824456
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503722683955138560


Ah yes, the relevant nations

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## FairAndUnbiased

Beny Karachun said:


> Navy doesn't win wars



lolwut


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503731423194357764

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## Beny Karachun

FairAndUnbiased said:


> lolwut


Your ships won't be the ones conquering Taiwan, your infantry will have to do that. It would be a massacre if they're equipped with guided missiles and they have motivation to fight like the Ukrainians. 
I doubt China will be able to fly above Taiwanese airspace freely.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503703324507492364


Wood said:


> The Russians are said to have used close to a 1000 missiles of different kinds in this war in Ukraine. Is this some sort of world record? I don't know if Americans used more in Iraq




The US fired around 950 in the 2nd Gulf War. 500 were fired on Day 1.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Beny Karachun said:


> Your ships won't be the ones conquering Taiwan, your infantry will have to do that. It would be a massacre if they're equipped with guided missiles and they have motivation to fight like the Ukrainians.
> I doubt China will be able to fly above Taiwanese airspace freely.



Taiwan is less than 100 km across. Chinese Navy can launch missile strikes with impunity far outside the reach of Taiwanese forces and intercept their aircraft while taking off with naval SAMs.

Taiwan also imports 70% food and 95% oil. Chinese Navy can stop any shipments of food and oil. There is no other way to get food and oil to Taiwan.

Navy is the most important branch of the conventional military.

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## nang2

Beny Karachun said:


> Your ships won't be the ones conquering Taiwan, your infantry will have to do that. It would be a massacre if they're equipped with guided missiles and they have motivation to fight like the Ukrainians.
> I doubt China will be able to fly above Taiwanese airspace freely.


You should really watch some Taiwanese TVs. Then you can decide whether those girly men would have enough strength, let alone will, to carry those guided missiles. Or you would rather expect their women to do it.


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## Beny Karachun

nang2 said:


> You should really watch some Taiwanese TVs. Then you can decide whether those girly men would have enough strength, let alone will, to carry those guided missiles. Or you would rather expect their women to do it.


I think China faces the same problem though lol, Chinese government addressed that


----------



## nang2

Beny Karachun said:


> I think China faces the same problem though lol, Chinese government addressed that


Nay, China does not have this problem. It's army isn't filled with over pampered city boys.


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## Beny Karachun

nang2 said:


> Nay, China does not have this problem. It's army isn't filled with over pampered city boys.


I bet the Taiwanese army isn't filled with such men either



FairAndUnbiased said:


> Taiwan is less than 100 km across. Chinese Navy can launch missile strikes with impunity far outside the reach of Taiwanese forces and intercept their aircraft while taking off with naval SAMs.
> 
> Taiwan also imports 70% food and 95% oil. Chinese Navy can stop any shipments of food and oil. There is no other way to get food and oil to Taiwan.
> 
> Navy is the most important branch of the conventional military.


Well you're right about the importance of a navy against Taiwan, but one thing you haven't learned from the Ukranian-Russian war is to never underestimate the enemy. 

I don't know how deeply Chinese population is brainwashed, but after all those Taiwanese people are your brothers.
A war with no real motive never goes well.


----------



## nang2

Beny Karachun said:


> I bet the Taiwanese army isn't filled with such men either


As I said, you really should watch their TVs. It is quite entertaining to watch those baby soldiers cry out for the "harsh" training they get.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503871576726462468

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## kingQamaR

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Taiwan is less than 100 km across. Chinese Navy can launch missile strikes with impunity far outside the reach of Taiwanese forces and intercept their aircraft while taking off with naval SAMs.
> 
> Taiwan also imports 70% food and 95% oil. Chinese Navy can stop any shipments of food and oil. There is no other way to get food and oil to Taiwan.
> 
> Navy is the most important branch of the conventional military.



Not so easy, China has the impossible task neutralise USA navy first. any land invasion start or even a blockade of Taiwan

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## Beny Karachun

nang2 said:


> As I said, you really should watch their TVs. It is quite entertaining to watch those baby soldiers cry out for the "harsh" training they get.


I know, this is a problem all across Asia. 
The difference between Taiwan and China is that China straight out bans footage that shows Chinese soldiers as weak.
Part of their propaganda effort.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

TB2s are burning the minds of some folks like the_ Jehennme_ in this _Dunya._...

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## thetutle

Apollon said:


> Russia cant ride out the sanctions. Its cut off from Europe completly and crippled. In this state its destined for a slow and agonizing death as a nation. Russia itself has nothing to offer to its own people. The young and educated one run away and whats left?



this I am not sure about. Foreign trade only makes up a certain amount of any countries GDP. Without that foreign trade, the standard of living should fall by that amount if there is no foreign trade. maybe 10% to 30%.

In real life it makes life more difficult, but thats just subjective. Personally I think it some western companies that pillage a country should have stayed in russia and continued their exploitation. 

The sanctions will have a noticeable impact on their civilian and military industry.

What the actual people think doesn't really matter. they've lived in worse situations. They are not a happy people generally and they dont really seek to be happy. The Men enjoy vodka and hot women, and they have plenty of both. The women enjoy being with rich men who wear Adidas. There will always be enough of them around. 

They have such a large country and such resources that they will always have the minimum and generally a pretty good life. A courtly doesn't need foreign trade to be wealthy if they have the knowledge and resources.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503871226602795010

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## Beny Karachun

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503871226602795010


Dude, Putin planned this!
He wanted the Ukrainians to have the weapons capable of doing that, trust me bro, it's all part of the plan!

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## Vergennes

Russian point of view ;

Interview of Vladimir Chirkin,former commander of russian ground forces about the situation in Ukraine. He believes "demilitarization of Ukraine has been completed by 70-80%.









Когда закончится операция на Украине? И почему не штурмуем Киев? Отвечает генерал Чиркин


Бывший Главком Сухопутных войск Владимир Чиркин считает, что демилитаризация Украины завершена на 70-80%




www-kp-ru.translate.goog





@F-22Raptor @LeGenD @RescueRanger

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## Wood

Vergennes said:


> Russian point of view ;
> 
> Interview of Vladimir Chirkin,former commander of russian ground forces about the situation in Ukraine. He believes "demilitarization of Ukraine has been completed by 70-80%.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Когда закончится операция на Украине? И почему не штурмуем Киев? Отвечает генерал Чиркин
> 
> 
> Бывший Главком Сухопутных войск Владимир Чиркин считает, что демилитаризация Украины завершена на 70-80%
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www-kp-ru.translate.goog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @F-22Raptor @LeGenD @RescueRanger


Russia has succeeded in militarization of Ukraine's entire civil society.

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## beast89

kingQamaR said:


> Not so easy, China has the impossible task neutralise USA navy first. any land invasion start or even a blockade of Taiwan


USA gonna send thoughts and prayers to Taiwan like Ukraine

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503708717925257219
To quote @Constantin84 's words "Today's Russians are not the early 90s Russians, they're not Soviet era Russians, they're not tsarist era Russians, used to extreme poverty and a boot on their neck. Today's Russians know about Western culture, freedoms and, most importantly...Western luxury and way of life, abroad hollydays,smartphones and the Internet. Once you're used to that, there's no way to revert to a North Koreean, Soviet way of life"

Russians nowadays especially the younger generations aren't the same as those during tsarist or soviet union periods,used to extreme poverty and hard life/labor.

They're now used to the western way of life and the luxury coming with it. They're used to own western brands,wear western brands,eat western food,watch western series and movies....

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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> Anyway, what Ukraine should fear is that Russia decides to reduce its invasion to eastern and southern parts, consolidates there, use the very considerable Russian ethnic presence, especially in the eastern part, and make the Dnipier River, which is supposed to have only limited crossings, a natural barrier and target the Russian guns on Kiev as blackmail... sort of like North Korea does by targeting Seoul. IF Russia is able to achieve those goals--which are in the realm of possibilities--then Russia will have won the war even if at great cost to itself. I believe in that case Russia will eventually ride out the sanctions.


If Ukraine could have a country under democratic control west of the dnieper. It would be the most amazing victory ever for Ukraine and the west. 

If afraid that Russia will not stop until it has taken all of urkiane and even further. 

If russia takes all of the south and east its fine because noone will ever recognise that in the west, the sanctions will continue for 50 years. and russia will be targeted forever until it changes government and gives up these territories. While at the same time you will have democratic rump Ukraine as an armed buffer country. That would be the best outcome that the ukranians and the west could ever hope for. Russia bordering Romania with the whole Black Sea coast would be a disaster. but still having any Ukraine under democratic control and friendly to the west would be amazing and far beyond what I expect.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Beny Karachun said:


> I bet the Taiwanese army isn't filled with such men either
> 
> 
> Well you're right about the importance of a navy against Taiwan, but one thing you haven't learned from the Ukranian-Russian war is to never underestimate the enemy.
> 
> I don't know how deeply Chinese population is brainwashed, but after all those Taiwanese people are your brothers.
> 
> A war with no real motive never goes well.



You know I think this is why Russia is not doing as good as it should. They thought they should have mercy on Ukrainians as brothers but Ukrainians clearly do not view themselves as brothers of Russians. So now Russia is under no illusions.

Chinese don't underestimate Taiwanese. But the fact is we already beat them before and now the difference in power is greater than ever.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503851648317333508

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## FairAndUnbiased

thetutle said:


> If Ukraine could have a country under democratic control west of the dnieper. It would be the most amazing victory ever for Ukraine and the west.
> 
> If afraid that Russia will not stop until it has taken all of urkiane and even further.
> 
> If russia takes all of the south and east its fine because noone will ever recognise that in the west, the sanctions will continue for 50 years. and russia will be targeted forever until it changes government and gives up these territories. While at the same time you will have democratic rump Ukraine as an armed buffer country. That would be the best outcome that the ukranians and the west could ever hope for. Russia bordering Romania with the whole Black Sea coast would be a disaster. but still having any Ukraine under democratic control and friendly to the west would be amazing and far beyond what I expect.



I expect Ukrainian government to remain in the west while Russia takes the south and east. However being democratic doesn't guarantee anything. What do you think their GDP per capita will be? All their industry will be conquered away or destroyed.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503853547670188038

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## Wood

Vergennes said:


> Russian point of view ;
> 
> Interview of Vladimir Chirkin,former commander of russian ground forces about the situation in Ukraine. He believes "demilitarization of Ukraine has been completed by 70-80%.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Когда закончится операция на Украине? И почему не штурмуем Киев? Отвечает генерал Чиркин
> 
> 
> Бывший Главком Сухопутных войск Владимир Чиркин считает, что демилитаризация Украины завершена на 70-80%
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www-kp-ru.translate.goog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @F-22Raptor @LeGenD @RescueRanger


This was interesting to read. He seems to be full of party line propaganda that we are fighting Nazis and all is according to plan. But then he quickly admits intermittently that Russians under estimated the fight she lost momentum. Apparently, everything was supposed to be over by the end of February. But now he is not sure if this will end in even March. He dodged the question about when this will end tactfully.

This is good confirmation that the Russian side is not so confident any more. They still have the numerical advantage though.

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## Avicenna

Apollon said:


> Putin started a hitleresque war against a weaker neighbor. There is not much speculation left. Even more so that Europe plain and simple cant allow this to happen.



Absolutely stupid statement.

In what way does Putin compare to Hitler?

Ridiculous.

Do a little research into the events leading to this.

And stop sipping from the FALSE Western narrative Kool-Aid.

Or AT LEAST consider the viewpoints from the Russian side.

IMO, Putin took this action RELUCTANTLY.

But push came to shove.

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## Titanium100

Beny Karachun said:


> I bet the Taiwanese army isn't filled with such men either



Lmao.. My man Beny Karachun is back.. Who is on some strong drugs in his view of Israel? But honestly Israel is the Taiwan of West Asia period aka an small American outpost.

Israel=Taiwan.......

He also thought that Erdogan and Israel thaw of relations is significiant outside of them wanting lobbying powers? The reason for that is because Israel is not viewed as threat in the region get with the program for atleast 5-6 decades.. I know you gonna cite some bogus 67 conflict which was over half century ago and it was called off before it even happened due to Washtington.. theoretically speaking Israel is far easier to fall then Taiwan via storming. Way less population, does not have ocean to protect it, poor stragetic depth and Israel could run out of manpower before bullets within a week against any ambitious and big scale offense..

There is no political incentive for this and you became angry last time I told you the crystal clear ground reality because I have seen you tend to delude yourself as major power but your nothing more then a tiny US outpost.

You could find audience tho with the groupies on PDF who are high on conspiracy theories but not these who are versed in military strategy, military hardware technology and geopolitics


----------



## thetutle

Amliunion said:


> Mercenaries telling the truth :
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503786076481241095


Who is this clown? foreign volunteer may arse. Looks like a video gamer that got sent back.

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## Beny Karachun

FairAndUnbiased said:


> I expect Ukrainian government to remain in the west while Russia takes the south and east. However being democratic doesn't guarantee anything. What do you think their GDP per capita will be? All their industry will be conquered away or destroyed.


US and Europe will rebuild Ukraine like Germany was rebuilt after WW2.



Titanium100 said:


> Lmao.. My man Beny Karachun is back.. Who is on some strong drugs in his view of Israel? But honestly Israel is the Taiwan of West Asia period aka an small American outpost.
> 
> Israel=Taiwan.......
> 
> He also thought that Erdogan and Israel thaw of relations is significiant outside of them wanting lobbying powers? The reason for that is because Israel is not viewed as threat in the region get with the program for atleast 5-6 decades.. I know you gonna cite some bogus 67 conflict which was over half century ago and it was called off before it even happened due to Washtington.. theoretically speaking Israel is far easier to fall then Taiwan via storming. Way less population, does not have ocean to protect it, poor stragetic depth and Israel could run out of manpower before bullets within a week against any ambitious and big scale offense..
> 
> There is no political incentive for this and you became angry last time I told you the crystal clear ground reality because I have seen you tend to delude yourself as major power but your nothing more then a tiny US outpost.
> 
> You could find audience tho with the groupies on PDF who are high on conspiracy theories but not these who are versed in military strategy, military hardware technology and geopolitics


Lol if you say so


----------



## CrazyZ

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503853547670188038


Looks like Mariupol is cracking. Civilian death tool is 3X higher then reported figures....horrible. Just horrible.


----------



## Beny Karachun

FairAndUnbiased said:


> You know I think this is why Russia is not doing as good as it should. They thought they should have mercy on Ukrainians as brothers but Ukrainians clearly do not view themselves as brothers of Russians. So now Russia is under no illusions.
> 
> Chinese don't underestimate Taiwanese. But the fact is we already beat them before and now the difference in power is greater than ever.


Depends. Many of them are brainwashed to hate the Ukrainians. The Russians don't have mercy on them, the amount of civilian casualties is staggering. 

Ukrainians view them as enemies just because they invaded their land and intentionally kill innocents as shown many times in a lot of horrible footage. 
Before that there was no hatred of Russians (for the most part. there was hatred of Putin though, which is understandable) 

You clearly do underestimate them by calling them all pussies while they're genetically identical to you. 

Attacking an island is hard. Attacking an island protected by the US is harder. I doubt China would do that after seeing the sanctions on Russia anyways. I sure as hell hope you don't do that and increase the chances for WW3 and setting humanity back. 

Whatever the reason for your need of Taiwan, it's not worth the deaths. Stop war mongering, think of what a mother of a soldier thinks when he dies for an island that wasn't even bothering anyone, do you think she thinks it was worth her son? Now multiply that by tens of thousands and possibly millions of mothers. 

Any war mongering leader should be brought to his knees.


----------



## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503828594866462720


interesting dilemma. To take them or burn them.


----------



## CrazyZ

gambit said:


> How far do *YOU* want to take that argument? How about Israel admonish the Palestinians the same way, that: If you had accepted this...
> 
> What you said is dangerous beyond this situation. It means on every continent, the current great power would make 'might is right' the dominant foreign affairs policy. If you do not like my offer, here are my weapons array. All you have to do is accept my offer of submission to avoid so much death and destruction.


I feel bad for Ukrainians. War is hell and I don't wish it on anyone. But in this world......might is right. Putin had his redlines and Zelensky crossed them. Ideology aside if he had more savvy he could have avoided the worse of what's going on.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## beast89

CrazyZ said:


> Looks like Mariupol is cracking.


Eastern Ukraine will fall to Russia soon, don't tell USA


----------



## thetutle

Apollon said:


> Albania for same reason will never join EU. Keep in mind that the vote must be done from all members and that will never happen. Usually in such cases negotiations go on and on for decades.


Of course they are going to join the EU. As well as muslim Bosnia and Muslim Kosovo. There are more muslims Hesse than in Kosovo.



Wood said:


> I've always suspected this to be the ulterior motive. Interesting to see that common EU citizens say this explicitly. But then again, you are a Greek. So you can have more reasons than just that to deny Turkey a seat in EU. Would be interesting to see if EU citizens from the western Europe feel the same


Many people might think so, but noone cares what the people think. The western europeans thought the same of the east europeans, but they got over it.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503897439069110273


----------



## CrazyZ

Beny Karachun said:


> No they aren't lol. Predator drones are of different class and different missions and are capable of carrying way more than TB2.
> Israeli drone like Hermes 450 is in the same class as TB-2 and can do whatever the TB-2 does. Israel doesn't showcase munitions fired from its drones for its reasons.
> 
> 
> Israeli HAROP suicide SEAD drone destroyed S-300 , TOR2M
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Navy doesn't win wars


At this point Ukraine needs more TB2's to counter Russian artillery not javelins or Mig 29's. That should speak for itself about the capacity TB2.

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## thetutle

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Dayum.. Putin is badass calculative individual he wants to take out the west
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503668377289584640
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igor Sushko
> @igorsushko
> ·
> 12 t
> 
> Svarer
> @igorsushko
> As always, my comments for clarification are in parenthesis. So, let's roll: “It appears World War III has begun; our guys are opening champagne - the war between Iran and the United States disrupts the nuclear deal and blocks the ability to replace Russian oil with Iranian oil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igor Sushko
> @igorsushko
> ·
> 12 t
> 
> The inevitable shutdown of the Strait of Hormuz will cause oil to skyrocket in price. I have no idea why Iran chose to shoot itself in the foot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igor Sushko
> @igorsushko
> ·
> 12 t
> 
> I’m could even believe in the existence of some kind of generally incomprehensible agreements (between Russia & Iran), but I don’t have a single fact that supports this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igor Sushko
> @igorsushko
> ·
> 12 t
> 
> Today I just want to convey information about the impending "exit" for Russia through our eyes (FSB as an organization, not #WindofChange individually) and the "courtiers" at the Kremlin. (Reference to a royal court under a King)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igor Sushko
> @igorsushko
> ·
> 12 t
> 
> This is not a “copy,” (of the actual brief) but an extremely accurate retelling, so you can do with this as you wish, including full publication without any redactions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igor Sushko
> @igorsushko
> ·
> 12 t
> 
> Currently there is only an outline, and a final report will be much more voluminous, detailed, and more concrete as the work has only just begun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igor Sushko
> @igorsushko
> ·
> 12 t
> 
> Afterward I will try to provide my own thoughts (on this new plan) as I am currently pre-occupied with the situation of the Iranian-American conflict. The “Gordian Knot” will definitely be seriously revised/adapted (because of Iran launching a missile at the US base in Iraq).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igor Sushko
> @igorsushko
> ·
> 12 t
> 
> Operation “Gordian Knot” 1st Stage: Most likely, Konashenkov (Major General, chief spokesman for the Russian Ministry of Defence) will officially declare at a briefing that Europe and the “collective West” have declared war on Russia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igor Sushko
> @igorsushko
> ·
> 12 t
> 
> by intervening in the Ukrainian conflict with their weapons and mercenaries, while simultaneously attacking Russia in the economic plane (sanctions).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igor Sushko
> @igorsushko
> ·
> 12 t
> 
> There will be an extended lecture that war is not contained to military operations on the battlefield, but it includes an array of aggressive actions aimed at causing direct damage to the opponent. That the West’s action de-facto unleashed a world war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igor Sushko
> @igorsushko
> ·
> 12 t
> 
> That this war has not yet moved into the “hot stage” with missiles and tanks only because Putin, as the supreme commander in chief, did not give such an order. Nevertheless, Konashenkov will declare that the third world war has begun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igor Sushko
> @igorsushko
> ·
> 12 t
> 
> 2nd Stage: Assessment of the reaction (by the West) – 1-2 days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igor Sushko
> @igorsushko
> ·
> 12 t
> 
> 3rd Stage: Putin will make a speech. In this long lecture he will declare that the modern world is not as it was before, that war now includes cyber attacks, preparation of biological attacks, direct attacks, training of terrorist & saboteurs, and devastating economic sanctions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igor Sushko
> @igorsushko
> ·
> 12 t
> 
> He [allegedly] does not want war, but the West has already started it (against Russia). As a result, (Russian) response need not be symmetrical and can respond to any act of aggression with any means available in a military confrontation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igor Sushko
> @igorsushko
> ·
> 12 t
> 
> “I warned with Ukraine – but nobody listened” (Putin’s message). Russia has shown that its words (threats) are not empty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Igor Sushko
> @igorsushko
> ·
> 12 t
> 
> Putin will declare that he is ready to come to terms (forgive) with what the West has already done, but only if sanctions are lifted within 24 hours, all assistance to Ukraine is stopped, and that NATO will guarantee not to expand.
> 
> 4th Stage: A fierce negotiation process (between Russia and the West) – in the initial hours Putin will be conspicuously unavailable for communication (with the West). Other countries’ presidents will be obliged to discuss issues with Putin’s aides – “or not at all.”



Translation = I really miscalculated badly. the constant flow of arms will make taking Ukraine almost prohibitively costly. Stop arming Ukraine so I can defeat them or I will throw a tantrum. Not only will I throw a tantrum, but you cant make any decisions without russia or I will end the world. 

This guy is in very very serious trouble and he will not find a way out.

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## Wood

Ukraine Strikes Back: Barrage Leaves Russian-Occupied Kherson Airbase In Flames (Updated)


Satellite images show multiple aircraft were destroyed in a Ukrainian attack on Russia's forward operating near Kherson.




www.thedrive.com





Lot of pictures in the link about Kherson strike

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## thetutle

CrazyZ said:


> If he had accepted this in the before this conflict started......he could have avoided so much death and destruction.


Oh yeah, russia would just accept its current borders if he didnt do this and that. lol. 

The decision makers now know that russia has the aim of reestabslihing the borders of the Russian empire. That includes all the republics of the USSR. and probably way beyond it.

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## Beny Karachun

CrazyZ said:


> At this point Ukraine needs more TB2's to counter Russian artillery not javelins or Mig 29's. That should speak for itself about the capacity TB2.


I never said it was bad. It's very good. But saying it's the best? Is it doing something other drones can't?


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## Wood

Beny Karachun said:


> I never said it was bad. It's very good. But saying it's the best? Is it doing something other drones can't?


The best thing about that drone is the price tag. Best bang for buck maybe? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503764721215885316

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## Beny Karachun

Wood said:


> The best thing about that drone is the price tag. Best bang for buck maybe?


Hermes 450 costs around the same at 2 million dollars and is capable of doing the same.


----------



## Wood

Beny Karachun said:


> Hermes 450 costs around the same at 2 million dollars and is capable of doing the same.


This cost $1 million no?


----------



## thetutle

fallschirmjager786 said:


> Looks like a mine/IED or possible unmanned RPG shot from the building to the right. In any case, thats the end of that. That man burning is brutal!


not a good way to spend an afternoon, but I dont see the burning man. I just see for a split second man running in front of tank.


----------



## kingQamaR

FairAndUnbiased said:


> I expect Ukrainian government to remain in the west while Russia takes the south and east. However being democratic doesn't guarantee anything. What do you think their GDP per capita will be? All their industry will be conquered away or destroyed.



Putin is finished........He wins in Ukraine the world won't deal with him, if he loses then the world won't deal with Russia until they get rid of him. Either way he loses

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503908429856972802

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## FairAndUnbiased

Beny Karachun said:


> Depends. Many of them are brainwashed to hate the Ukrainians. The Russians don't have mercy on them, the amount of civilian casualties is staggering.
> 
> Ukrainians view them as enemies just because they invaded their land and intentionally kill innocents as shown many times in a lot of horrible footage.
> Before that there was no hatred of Russians (for the most part. there was hatred of Putin though, which is understandable)
> 
> You clearly do underestimate them by calling them all pussies while they're genetically identical to you.
> 
> Attacking an island is hard. Attacking an island protected by the US is harder. I doubt China would do that after seeing the sanctions on Russia anyways. I sure as hell hope you don't do that and increase the chances for WW3 and setting humanity back.
> 
> Whatever the reason for your need of Taiwan, it's not worth the deaths. Stop war mongering, think of what a mother of a soldier thinks when he dies for an island that wasn't even bothering anyone, do you think she thinks it was worth her son? Now multiply that by tens of thousands and possibly millions of mothers.
> 
> Any war mongering leader should be brought to his knees.


I never said anything about Taiwanese being pussies, you have me confused for someone else.

Many people have began to mistake Chinese restraint for weakness. They need to understand that opposing China is not free. You should talk about warmongering being bad to the actual warmongers and those who actually attack others. China has, so far, mostly given warnings. I hope they are taken seriously because when warnings aren't taken seriously then they often escalate to action. Many countries have already found this out the hard way, hope others understand too.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503890081702100996
Russia has suffered significant losses at the Kherson airport

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## FairAndUnbiased

kingQamaR said:


> Putin is finished........He wins in Ukraine the world won't deal with him, if he loses then the world won't deal with Russia until they get rid of him. Either way he loses


meh if you're confident of this you don't need to spam UKRAINE WIN PUTIN LOSE on this thread. You'd just have an air of quiet confidence like how US never spammed "WE ARE GOING TO WIN IN IRAQ" over and over, they just did it.

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## thetutle

Beny Karachun said:


> He shot down a Russian jet ,


It invaded Turkish airspace. what would you do?



Beny Karachun said:


> bought the S-400 to apologize and now has been blocked from having the F-35


Bought s400 to have a missile defence and find ways to deafeat the system which has been shared with NATO. 


Beny Karachun said:


> and now Russian air defenses show massive vulnerabilities.


Because of the Turkish purchase maybe? 


Beny Karachun said:


> He ****ed up his relations with Israel,


Made enemies with 15 million people, became loved by humanity. It's a no brainer for any clever politician.


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

kingQamaR said:


> Putin is finished........He wins in Ukraine the world won't deal with him, if he loses then the world won't deal with Russia until they get rid of him. Either way he loses



First of all I am completely neutral.. You could say I am slightly leaning on the Ukraine-US side but that being said now.. Whatever you said doesn't hold a candle to the reality.

Putin has taken huge portion of Ukraine currently right now and militarily his doing better then some assume and their short-comings is overexaggerated. Yes they are meeting heroic Ukrainians who are willing to defend and fight for their country but the truth is always in the middle of both camps who have gone berserker rage by claiming high claims.

Hence Putin holds 35% of Ukraine today and when he came in he held less then 5% and that is 30% gain in 3 weeks that is not short-comings in the real conventional warfare but in fact an overperformance considering the foe his fighting, the armaments they have, their numbers etc etc. If you take everything into account the Russians on the ground has over-performed thus far but their momentum is slowing down and could be due to weather.

I think he will be able to reverse the sanctions as he will invade Finland post-Ukraine and use Sweden as bargaining chip to lift all of his sanctions

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## F-22Raptor

The Biden administration is considering providing Ukraine with U.S.-made killer drones — cutting edge guided missiles that could accurately target Russian tanks and artillery positions from miles away, two Congressional officials briefed on the matter told NBC News.

No decisions have been made, but the officials said the White House is mulling whether to equip Ukraine with explosive-laden “loitering missiles,” called Switchblades, as part of a new package of military aid President Biden is expected to discuss on Wednesday.









Biden admin will provide Ukraine with killer drones called Switchblades


The U.S.-made guided missiles can accurately target tanks and artillery from miles away.




www.nbcnews.com

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> The Biden administration is considering providing Ukraine with U.S.-made killer drones — cutting edge guided missiles that could accurately target Russian tanks and artillery positions from miles away, two Congressional officials briefed on the matter told NBC News.
> 
> No decisions have been made, but the officials said the White House is mulling whether to equip Ukraine with explosive-laden “loitering missiles,” called Switchblades, as part of a new package of military aid President Biden is expected to discuss on Wednesday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biden admin will provide Ukraine with killer drones called Switchblades
> 
> 
> The U.S.-made guided missiles can accurately target tanks and artillery from miles away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcnews.com


Now that should help. Any idea about the numbers?!


----------



## thetutle

FairAndUnbiased said:


> I expect Ukrainian government to remain in the west while Russia takes the south and east. However being democratic doesn't guarantee anything. What do you think their GDP per capita will be? All their industry will be conquered away or destroyed.


We can only hope and and pray. But their economy will be fine. They have a clever and educated population and they will get western investment. I have no worries for them.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Titanium100 said:


> Lmao.. My man Beny Karachun is back.. Who is on some strong drugs in his view of Israel? But honestly Israel is the Taiwan of West Asia period aka an small American outpost.
> 
> Israel=Taiwan.......
> 
> He also thought that Erdogan and Israel thaw of relations is significiant outside of them wanting lobbying powers? The reason for that is because Israel is not viewed as threat in the region get with the program for atleast 5-6 decades.. I know you gonna cite some bogus 67 conflict which was over half century ago and it was called off before it even happened due to Washtington.. theoretically speaking Israel is far easier to fall then Taiwan via storming. Way less population, does not have ocean to protect it, poor stragetic depth and Israel could run out of manpower before bullets within a week against any ambitious and big scale offense..
> 
> There is no political incentive for this and you became angry last time I told you the crystal clear ground reality because I have seen you tend to delude yourself as major power but your nothing more then a tiny US outpost.
> 
> You could find audience tho with the groupies on PDF who are high on conspiracy theories but not these who are versed in military strategy, military hardware technology and geopolitics



Israel as whole is riddled with conspiracy theories... I mean what in the actual fudge! It is atleast 50 times easier then Taiwan in this modern era.. Not one single military strategist would say otherwise. I mean are you kidding me unless someone has extremely low IQ below 29 he could then envision Israel into USA or hallucinate into that


----------



## Beny Karachun

thetutle said:


> It invaded Turkish airspace. what would you do?
> 
> 
> Bought s400 to have a missile defence and find ways to deafeat the system which has been shared with NATO.
> 
> Because of the Turkish purchase maybe?
> 
> Made enemies with 15 million people, became loved by humanity. It's a no brainer for any clever politician.


Erdogan loved by humanity lol


----------



## kingQamaR

FairAndUnbiased said:


> meh if you're confident of this you don't need to spam UKRAINE WIN PUTIN LOSE on this thread. You'd just have an air of quiet confidence like how US never spammed "WE ARE GOING TO WIN IN IRAQ" over and over, they just did it.



Maybe that plan would have worked if they weren’t so clueless about the Ukrainian people (not just the govt.) really not appreciating the idea of Russian takeover? Ukrainians have lived under democracy and the appeal of now living under a authoritarian Putin is not appealing


----------



## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503908429856972802


This would be perfect for the ukranians. Just in case the ukrnaian soldier gets tired of using fire and forget javelins from 3 km away, now they can play video games at plot level and take out tanks from 40km away without putting down their morning coffee.


----------



## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> The Biden administration is considering providing Ukraine with U.S.-made killer drones — cutting edge guided missiles that could accurately target Russian tanks and artillery positions from miles away, two Congressional officials briefed on the matter told NBC News.
> 
> No decisions have been made, but the officials said the White House is mulling whether to equip Ukraine with explosive-laden “loitering missiles,” called Switchblades, as part of a new package of military aid President Biden is expected to discuss on Wednesday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biden admin will provide Ukraine with killer drones called Switchblades
> 
> 
> The U.S.-made guided missiles can accurately target tanks and artillery from miles away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcnews.com


oh noooo, it might cause ww3.

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## xuxu1457

The third batch of humanitarian aid supplies from China to Ukraine transferred from Warsaw

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## thetutle

Blinken says there will be an independent Ukraine 'a lot longer than there's going to be a Vladimir Putin' | CNN Politics


US Secretary of State Antony Blinken on Tuesday said there will be an independent Ukraine "a lot longer than there's going to be a Vladimir Putin," as the Russian leader continues his unprovoked invasion of the country.




edition.cnn.com

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## Wood



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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503922170220761089

The US Senate now classifies Vladimir Putin as a war criminal

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## Elvin



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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503922170220761089
> 
> The US Senate now classifies Vladimir Putin as a war criminal


So they don't want a negotiation with him anymore?


----------



## F-22Raptor

President Zelensky is set to address the US Congress in the morning

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## gambit

CrazyZ said:


> I feel bad for Ukrainians. War is hell and I don't wish it on anyone. *But in this world......might is right.* Putin had his redlines and Zelensky crossed them. Ideology aside if he had more savvy he could have avoided the worse of what's going on.


So do you believe Afghanistan should have given up against both the Soviet Union and US? We had our red lines, too.

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## patero

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503922170220761089
> 
> The US Senate now classifies Vladimir Putin as a war criminal


This almost certainly means the sanctions will stay for as long as Putin is in power. There is a way out of this mess for the benefit of the entire human race, and it starts and ends with one person.

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## Apollon

Avicenna said:


> Absolutely stupid statement.
> 
> In what way does Putin compare to Hitler?
> 
> Ridiculous.
> 
> Do a little research into the events leading to this.
> 
> And stop sipping from the FALSE Western narrative Kool-Aid.
> 
> Or AT LEAST consider the viewpoints from the Russian side.
> 
> IMO, Putin took this action RELUCTANTLY.
> 
> But push came to shove.



There is nothing to discuss. We plaon and simply wont accept a facist russian war. There are core values...eavh country decides free what alliances it choses. Putin acts like Hitler did with Sudetenland, its exactly the same.


----------



## Menthol

Apollon said:


> Nato did not soround Russia. Russia opressed all its countries around for decades. Ukraine is one of the nations that suffered most from russian agression. Nations join NATO to be secure by russian agression.
> 
> If Ukraine would have joined NATO in 2008, it would be save today.
> 
> And you know who decides Ukraines future? Ukrainains, not russians and certainly not we greeks.
> 
> The way the ukrainians give the russians hell shows they indeed play an important part for russian history, a massive defeat in russian history.
> 
> Slava Ukraine!



What you are saying is that the West didn't do the same as what Russia does today.

I think Russia is far more patient than the West, it waited for decades.

More talk rather than action.

What Russia does today, is what the West did for decades before.

Even 10 times more.


To say that what Russia does is wrong, it's good as long as the West does the same to themselves.

If the West can't blame themselves for their own action in the past (even a couple of months ago), it's useless to accuse Russia of wrongdoing.

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## kingQamaR

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> First of all I am completely neutral.. You could say I am slightly leaning on the Ukraine-US side but that being said now.. Whatever you said doesn't hold a candle to the reality.
> 
> Putin has taken huge portion of Ukraine currently right now and militarily his doing better then some assume and their short-comings is overexaggerated. Yes they are meeting heroic Ukrainians who are willing to defend and fight for their country but the truth is always in the middle of both camps who have gone berserker rage by claiming high claims.
> 
> Hence Putin holds 35% of Ukraine today and when he came in he held less then 5% and that is 30% gain in 3 weeks that is not short-comings in the real conventional warfare but in fact an overperformance considering the foe his fighting, the armaments they have, their numbers etc etc. If you take everything into account the Russians on the ground has over-performed thus far but their momentum is slowing down and could be due to weather.
> 
> I think he will be able to reverse the sanctions as he will invade Finland post-Ukraine and use Sweden as bargaining chip to lift all of his sanctions



The goals posts with some of you keep changing on here. Your two day Putin war is now turning in to nearly a month of street to street fighting, it’s hard to swallow his army has so far lost 8% to 10% of its armour which you say has been a good advance by it go tell that to thousands of Russian mums who lost there kids in Putin war. You guys are to easily giving the thumps up to him real experts opinions is this war is a disaster, he can take 30% of Ukrainian so what, USA had whole of Afghanistan but gave it back to its original adversaries Taliban. Before you dream on taking nato, try defeating Ukrainian civilians first. Let’s look at your grand Russian army , its full of novice conscripts with no food or rations broken down equipment. No fuel or parts. This Russian army of 130,000 is not strong enough or good enough to control 44 million peoples and fight a nasty insurgency its going its way. And it’s not looking any better for Moscow on the other front. Totally boycotted from sports arts media music fashion no one is off the sanction list. And Are completely economically diplomatically socially blocked from the rest of the world trade. Sadly for Russians with expensive taste China cheap knock off eBay tatt is not a good substitute for there German french brands. Sanctions will never be reversed , you’ve only unified EU snd nato likes of Germany to build its army with others and importantly west is buying energy from the Gulf. 

Sweden and Finland omg , why not invade USA to .

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## Apollon

Menthol said:


> What you are saying is that the West didn't do the same as what Russia does today.
> 
> I think Russia is far more patient than the West, it waited for decades.
> 
> More talk rather than action.
> 
> What Russia does today, is what the West did for decades before.
> 
> Even 10 times more.
> 
> 
> To say that what Russia does is wrong, it's good as long as the West does the same to themselves.
> 
> If the West can't blame themselves for their own action in the past (even a couple of months ago), it's useless to accuse Russia of wrongdoing.



Empty gibberish since states dont work like this. Europe and NATO wont allow Russia to wage wars inside Europe. Its that simple. There is no guilt or any of this moralistisc bullshit.

Its exactly for that reason why Russias economy is crushed into the abyss and Ukraine pumped up with enough weapons to deliver a humilating defeat to Russia.

German media report Ukraine took Cherson back from Russians. Multiple russian helicopters destroyed on the airfield









Erstes Foto der zerstörten „Moskwa“ nach dem Raketen-Angriff aufgetaucht


Vor über sieben Wochen hat der russische Angriffskrieg in der Ukraine begonnen. In Mariupol und einem Stahlwerk spitzt sich die Lage zu. Bei Charkiw konnte die ukrainische Armee weitere Orte befreien. Alle Neuigkeiten zum Angriff auf die Ukraine finden Sie im Ticker.




www.focus.de

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## Enigma SIG

Titanium100 said:


> This is epic listen to it.. This old woman defines what a war hawk means in the flesh
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503602893802332164


At this point you can almost see the Lizard tongues coming out of their mouth

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## gambit

kingQamaR said:


> Not so easy, China has the impossible task neutralise USA navy first. any land invasion start or even a blockade of Taiwan


The PDF Chinese do not realize how much more critical the PLA is viewing Taiwan now. They deluded themselves by way of shiny toys, as in how many missiles and ships. But despite the evidence of Ukraine in front of their faces, they never consider the consequences to China of a Taiwan invasion.

Already, we know that once a mainland build up is evident, companies will start leaving China, ships will begin to divert away from the SCS and the strait, then once missiles started flying, all traffic thru the SCS will stop, no one will risk being hit by an errant missile, which *WILL* happen, or be mistaken for a warship and fired upon, which is always a chance to happen. Then the Chinese economy will decline.

Now we have the Ukraine resistance and this is where the PLA is more worried than before. The Iraqi and Afghanistan resistance were not as organized and less sophisticated in terms of weaponry, so new questions and uncertainties for the PLA are:

How much will the US and allies support the Taiwanese?
What if Taiwanese resistance is the same as the Ukrainian because the US and allies support Taiwan to the same degree as Ukraine?
How much longer will be the pacification regime?
How much more troops?
These are military questions, not counting the political questions that contains issues like sanctions by governments and withdrawal of business relationships by companies.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503935616542982146


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503958331290968064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503957703558840320

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503959184097914880


----------



## Amliunion

What this shows of course is that the reporters have simply no idea what is going on: that the US is using the Ukraine to fight a proxy war, and the longer it goes on the better it will be for their desired outcome. Ukrainians are totally disposible in this.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503923776207175680

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## kingQamaR

gambit said:


> The PDF Chinese do not realize how much more critical the PLA is viewing Taiwan now. They deluded themselves by way of shiny toys, as in how many missiles and ships. But despite the evidence of Ukraine in front of their faces, they never consider the consequences to China of a Taiwan invasion.
> 
> Already, we know that once a mainland build up is evident, companies will start leaving China, ships will begin to divert away from the SCS and the strait, then once missiles started flying, all traffic thru the SCS will stop, no one will risk being hit by an errant missile, which *WILL* happen, or be mistaken for a warship and fired upon, which is always a chance to happen. Then the Chinese economy will decline.
> 
> Now we have the Ukraine resistance and this is where the PLA is more worried than before. The Iraqi and Afghanistan resistance were not as organized and less sophisticated in terms of weaponry, so new questions and uncertainties for the PLA are:
> 
> How much will the US and allies support the Taiwanese?
> What if Taiwanese resistance is the same as the Ukrainian because the US and allies support Taiwan to the same degree as Ukraine?
> How much longer will be the pacification regime?
> How much more troops?
> These are military questions, not counting the political questions that contains issues like sanctions by governments and withdrawal of business relationships by companies.



China are to smart to go in now. They've spent years and billions improving relations worldwide. Russia spent months building up troops on the border, just a few miles away from Ukraine and are bogged down. China would need to amass a large force AND cross the Taiwan strait to invade. Ukriaine had only a short time time to learn nato weapons, Taiwan has had access and practice with them for many years. How long will USA fighters be able to fight an air war with China from the mainland are USA be coming from Guam. long way away ? , China will have bit of time until the huge usa naval power arrives


----------



## Apollon

sur said:


> Let me guess what congressmen/Biden will say to Zelensky:
> 
> "*more weapons for you, yeah! fight you henchmen [aka die for our goals]*"
> 
> *Then congress will shed crocodile tears* for Ukrainians who are suffering as a result of their false promises and interference.
> 
> Lets see if my predictions come true in the morning.
> 
> View attachment 824507



No, Ukraine fights to be free from russian dictatorship. Thats what you guys dont understand neither did Putin. Ukraine does not accept russia as occupation force.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503963702663553026

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503966508812283906

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503964746021842947

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503965375029030914


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503966064207618050

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503969295872704512


----------



## Avicenna

Enigma SIG said:


> At this point you can almost see the Lizard tongues coming out of their mouth



WTF was that?



Titanium100 said:


> This is epic listen to it.. This old woman defines what a war hawk means in the flesh
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503602893802332164



This was repulsive to watch.


----------



## kingQamaR

No amount of putting up Russian army news here they are truly bad

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## Avicenna

Avicenna said:


> WTF was that?
> 
> 
> 
> This was repulsive to watch.



She doesn't know what shes talking about.

But she can sure trade stocks!









Nancy Pelosi: 2021 Wall Street Trader of the Year


Thanks to her investing prowess, the Speaker of the House’s wealth grew by an estimated $16.7 million in 2020, just as millions of Americans fell into poverty and struggled to make ends meet during the COVID-19 pandemic. Long live the Queen of Stonks!




www.jacobinmag.com


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503941131243077632


----------



## Clutch

Amliunion said:


> Mercenaries telling the truth :
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503786076481241095



What do these gullible Westerners expect from the Nazi Ukrainians... Wake up call....


----------



## 8888888888888




----------



## gambit

kingQamaR said:


> China are to smart to go in now. They've spent years and billions improving relations worldwide. Russia spent months building up troops on the border, just a few miles away from Ukraine and are bogged down. China would need to amass a large force AND cross the Taiwan strait to invade. Ukriaine had only a short time time to learn nato weapons, Taiwan has had access and practice with them for many years. How long will USA fighters be able to fight an air war with China from the mainland are USA be coming from Guam. long way away ? , China will have bit of time until the huge usa naval power arrives


The PDF Chinese talk carelessly about lobbing cross strait missiles at Taiwan and that will soften up Taiwanese defense enough to make it easy for the invasion. EW drones have been around for yrs. What if the US give Taiwan a sh!tload of EW drones? The drones can loiter long enough to disrupt missiles with radar sensors. But that is not all the drones can do.

The one critical thing about radar sensors is that whenever there is an interruption in target lock, if the radar reacquire a reflection signal, the radar computer need time to reprocess the new signal to correlate with the previous signals in memory, and that reprocessing time can be up to one second. The drones can cycle on/off their transmissions to further compound the (re)targeting process. That tactic is called 'blinking' and have been around for decades.





__





The Analysis on Angle Noise Produced by Blinking Jamming | Proceedings of the 2009 International Asia Conference on Informatics in Control, Automation and Robotics







dl.acm.org





*Blinking jamming* is an effective countermeasure against monopulse radar seeker. It causes line-of-sight angle to step continuously between the two angular positions through jamming resources emitting by turns. The expression of angle noise in synchronous blinking jamming and the relationship between the parameter of jamming resource and Angle Noise are analyzed on the basis of the situation of line-of-sight angle position between missile and target. The relationship between the parameter of jamming resources and Angle Noise is important in application of blinking jamming.​
Airborne blinking is even worse. Given the short distance between mainland China and Taiwan, Taiwanese defense do not need one second. A few milliseconds could be just enough to make the missile failed even by just a few meters. Many hardened structures are robust enough to withstand concussions and shrapnel and will require direct hits to be destroyed or damaged. China must perform post strike battle damage assessments and the more Taiwanese defense assets survive especially after multiple salvos, the odds of delaying the invasion fleet increases, possibly even to cancelling the invasion itself. By the way, note the authors' names of the source above because I do not want to be accused of bias.

The PLA is not like the PDF Chinese members here. The PLA leadership are serious people. PLA generals are watching this war closely. How the Ukrainians uses drones will catch the PLA generals' eyes because it is not a matter if the Taiwanese defense is smart enough to use drones, but *HOW* the Taiwanese defense will use drones. And the Ukrainians are giving the Taiwanese plenty of ideas.

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## xuxu1457

gambit said:


> The PDF Chinese talk carelessly about lobbing cross strait missiles at Taiwan and that will soften up Taiwanese defense enough to make it easy for the invasion. EW drones have been around for yrs. What if the US give Taiwan a sh!tload of EW drones? The drones can loiter long enough to disrupt missiles with radar sensors. But that is not all the drones can do.
> 
> The one critical thing about radar sensors is that whenever there is an interruption in target lock, if the radar reacquire a reflection signal, the radar computer need time to reprocess the new signal to correlate with the previous signals in memory, and that reprocessing time can be up to one second. The drones can cycle on/off their transmissions to further compound the (re)targeting process. That tactic is called 'blinking' and have been around for decades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Analysis on Angle Noise Produced by Blinking Jamming | Proceedings of the 2009 International Asia Conference on Informatics in Control, Automation and Robotics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dl.acm.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Blinking jamming* is an effective countermeasure against monopulse radar seeker. It causes line-of-sight angle to step continuously between the two angular positions through jamming resources emitting by turns. The expression of angle noise in synchronous blinking jamming and the relationship between the parameter of jamming resource and Angle Noise are analyzed on the basis of the situation of line-of-sight angle position between missile and target. The relationship between the parameter of jamming resources and Angle Noise is important in application of blinking jamming.​
> Airborne blinking is even worse. Given the short distance between mainland China and Taiwan, Taiwanese defense do not need one second. A few milliseconds could be just enough to make the missile failed even by just a few meters. Many hardened structures are robust enough to withstand concussions and shrapnel and will require direct hits to be destroyed or damaged. China must perform post strike battle damage assessments and the more Taiwanese defense assets survive especially after multiple salvos, the odds of delaying the invasion fleet increases, possibly even to cancelling the invasion itself. By the way, note the authors' names of the source above because I do not want to be accused of bias.
> 
> The PLA is not like the PDF Chinese members here. The PLA leadership are serious people. PLA generals are watching this war closely. How the Ukrainians uses drones will catch the PLA generals' eyes because it is not a matter if the Taiwanese defense is smart enough to use drones, but *HOW* the Taiwanese defense will use drones. And the Ukrainians are giving the Taiwanese plenty of ideas.


Taiwan is only 36000 square kilometers, which is smaller than the two independent small republics in eastern Ukraine. Ukraine's 600000 square kilometers is 18 times the size of Taiwan.not as Russianhas less money to produce precision weapons, China has enough money. Dongfeng 15 missiles cost only US $450000, while $45 billion can produce 100000. Taiwan and Ukraine are completely different.
The other is that Taiwan currently has no sign of stepping on China's red line. 1.remove the constitution，Taiwan's current constitution is called the Republic of China, which still includes the whole of China.
2.Foreign troops are stationed openly. As long as Republic of China do not do these two,People's Republic of China will not attack Republic of China .


----------



## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> Russian point of view ;
> 
> Interview of Vladimir Chirkin,former commander of russian ground forces about the situation in Ukraine. He believes "demilitarization of Ukraine has been completed by 70-80%.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Когда закончится операция на Украине? И почему не штурмуем Киев? Отвечает генерал Чиркин
> 
> 
> Бывший Главком Сухопутных войск Владимир Чиркин считает, что демилитаризация Украины завершена на 70-80%
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www-kp-ru.translate.goog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @F-22Raptor @LeGenD @RescueRanger


Do you remember Baghdad Bob? 🤣

But in all honesty, after this war is over I’m betting top dollar the Ukrainian military will be operating some big ticket items that “were” in the Russian inventory.

I think this was a “demilitarisation” operation for the Russian Army.

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## Menthol

bobo6661 said:


> man just stop your russian propaganda its realy bad ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> History of Ukraine - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Novorossia is just , is a historical term of the russian empire denoting a region north of the Black Sea nothing more no culture no anything. now they trying to print it as something special so they can grab land nothing more



It's not propaganda.

But that is the local story.

The West is trying to rewrite the history of their people, by claiming that foreigners know better than local people.

I think the West should give up fabricating stories around the world.

This Ukraine and Russia case is not just one.

I believe you probably believe 100% of the story told by your media because it's well-written.

But for local people who know better, it feels funny.

And it becomes annoying when suddenly strangers believe the fake story so much and try to impose it and claim they know better.


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503987265495838723

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503987982772191233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503987600591368194


----------



## Apollon

Menthol said:


> It's not propaganda.
> 
> But that is the local story.
> 
> The West is trying to rewrite the history of their people, by claiming that foreigners know better than local people.
> 
> I think the West should give up fabricating stories around the world.
> 
> This Ukraine and Russia case is not just one.
> 
> I believe you probably believe 100% of the story told by your media because it's well-written.
> 
> But for local people who know better, it feels funny.
> 
> And it becomes annoying when suddenly strangers believe the fake story so much and try to impose it and claim they know better.



I have friends in Ukraine. One is a fossil collector who sells fish fossils. He fights and kills russians now. He obviously stands for his nation, not because stories but because Ukraine never again will allow russia to harm it


----------



## Menthol

Foinikas said:


> Russian propaganda? It's part of history.
> 
> You don't like Russians? Ok. You can't tell me that the majority of what is now Ukraine,was not Russian.
> 
> View attachment 824094
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 824095
> 
> 
> 
> I think that Lviv and should belong to Poland by the way.



Just ignore him.

Most of the West, especially Americans don't know where is the location of Ukraine on the world map.

Let alone believe they know better than the local people there.

But they insist that they know better.

And they don't know what the Ukraine-Russia war means to them.

We all are trying to save them, it's them who are trying to kill themselves.

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## Apollon

More destroyed russian Equipment


----------



## Menthol

beijingwalker said:


> Not totally true, we do know a lot about Ukraine or the geopolitics of that region, but you got one thing right, we cheer for anti US and Nato, actually we don't have much problem with any specific European countries, the only country we have problem with is US.



Agree!

This Russia-Ukraine crisis will not happen if it's not because of USA.

Even most, if not all European don't want it to happen.

The relationship between Russia and the rest of Europe is fine until USA feels like he knows better about this part of the region than the local people.

If any European supports USA on this one, I can't imagine how stupid they are!



oberschlesier said:


> Poles don`t hate Russians! Russians as people are really okay I know some, but the russian imperial ideas are not. Katyn is one thing. Being in the easter block after WW2 and having a really bad economical system forced by the soviets for 45 years this is the real issue! Being again in the russian zone? NO! thank you! Better being in EU and at the east flank of NATO.
> 
> Anyway, NATO is a defence pact. It won`t interviene.



Defense pack?

But you are sending military forces to other countries?

You are not attacked, but you are attacking.


----------



## leviathan

gambit said:


> The PDF Chinese talk carelessly about lobbing cross strait missiles at Taiwan and that will soften up Taiwanese defense enough to make it easy for the invasion. EW drones have been around for yrs. What if the US give Taiwan a sh!tload of EW drones? The drones can loiter long enough to disrupt missiles with radar sensors. But that is not all the drones can do.
> 
> The one critical thing about radar sensors is that whenever there is an interruption in target lock, if the radar reacquire a reflection signal, the radar computer need time to reprocess the new signal to correlate with the previous signals in memory, and that reprocessing time can be up to one second. The drones can cycle on/off their transmissions to further compound the (re)targeting process. That tactic is called 'blinking' and have been around for decades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Analysis on Angle Noise Produced by Blinking Jamming | Proceedings of the 2009 International Asia Conference on Informatics in Control, Automation and Robotics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dl.acm.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Blinking jamming* is an effective countermeasure against monopulse radar seeker. It causes line-of-sight angle to step continuously between the two angular positions through jamming resources emitting by turns. The expression of angle noise in synchronous blinking jamming and the relationship between the parameter of jamming resource and Angle Noise are analyzed on the basis of the situation of line-of-sight angle position between missile and target. The relationship between the parameter of jamming resources and Angle Noise is important in application of blinking jamming.​
> Airborne blinking is even worse. Given the short distance between mainland China and Taiwan, Taiwanese defense do not need one second. A few milliseconds could be just enough to make the missile failed even by just a few meters. Many hardened structures are robust enough to withstand concussions and shrapnel and will require direct hits to be destroyed or damaged. China must perform post strike battle damage assessments and the more Taiwanese defense assets survive especially after multiple salvos, the odds of delaying the invasion fleet increases, possibly even to cancelling the invasion itself. By the way, note the authors' names of the source above because I do not want to be accused of bias.
> 
> The PLA is not like the PDF Chinese members here. The PLA leadership are serious people. PLA generals are watching this war closely. How the Ukrainians uses drones will catch the PLA generals' eyes because it is not a matter if the Taiwanese defense is smart enough to use drones, but *HOW* the Taiwanese defense will use drones. And the Ukrainians are giving the Taiwanese plenty of ideas.


“* if the Taiwanese defense is smart enough to use drones, but HOW the Taiwanese defense will use drones. And the Ukrainians are giving the Taiwanese plenty of ideas.*” 






The U.S. agreed to sell *four* MQ-9B SeaGuardian drones last year.
VS
PLA

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## Amliunion

Here is what a good honest helper from Germany experienced at a military checkpoint in Ukraine: “It would be better for Ukraine if you died as a humanitarian aid worker. That gives bad press for Putin."


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503981735364763649

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Menthol

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503922170220761089
> 
> The US Senate now classifies Vladimir Putin as a war criminal



The thief is yelling thief to others.

War criminal is yelling war criminal to others.

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## Menthol

Amliunion said:


> Here is what a good honest helper from Germany experienced at a military checkpoint in Ukraine: “It would be better for Ukraine if you died as a humanitarian aid worker. That gives bad press for Putin."
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503981735364763649



The reality of today's war.

Publicity!

Plz come and die for Ukraine, for the good news for Ukraine (and bad news to your family and friends).


The same with Syria as well at the time.

The rebel wants foreign aid workers and journalists to die, but the government is saving them.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503903394167070721

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503991058811789312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503994995308732419


Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503790779835236352





Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504001035580420096

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## bobo6661

Menthol said:


> The West is trying to rewrite the history of their people, by claiming that foreigners know better than local people.
> 
> I think the West should give up fabricating stories around the world.


Its propaganda both terms were created to name territories in ukraine ... Or let me corect myself in russian empire



Menthol said:


> The West is trying to rewrite the history of their people, by claiming that foreigners know better than local people.
> 
> I think the West should give up fabricating stories around the world.
> 
> This Ukraine and Russia case is not just one.


Nice russian propaganda ... clearly you dont know nothing about this region more then russians told you ...


Menthol said:


> I believe you probably believe 100% of the story told by your media because it's well-written.
> 
> But for local people who know better, it feels funny.
> 
> And it becomes annoying when suddenly strangers believe the fake story so much and try to impose it and claim they know better.


Funny going out from somone that is trowing nothing more then propaganda ...

I dont watch mainstream media for like 10 years already ...If i were watching and believing it i doubt i would be here... 

And im not realy interest in talking with you after that 100%.


----------



## gambit

leviathan said:


> The U.S. agreed to sell *four* MQ-9B SeaGuardian drones last year.
> VS
> PLA


Does that mean the US will sell no more? When will China invade Taiwan to take advantage of this drone disparity?

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## RescueRanger

Another video from an American foreign fighter who ran away from #Ukraine recounts of his experience in Ukraine:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503777770362572805

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## LeGenD

Members are advised to not discuss Taiwan in this thread.

When I remove off-topic posts then some members cry Wolf here.

@WebMaster

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## gambit

xuxu1457 said:


> Taiwan is only 36000 square kilometers, which is smaller than the two independent small republics in eastern Ukraine. Ukraine's 600000 square kilometers is 18 times the size of Taiwan.not as Russianhas less money to produce precision weapons, China has enough money. Dongfeng 15 missiles cost only US $450000, while $45 billion can produce 100000. Taiwan and Ukraine are completely different.
> The other is that Taiwan currently has no sign of stepping on China's red line. 1.remove the constitution，Taiwan's current constitution is called the Republic of China, which still includes the whole of China.
> 2.Foreign troops are stationed openly. As long as Republic of China do not do these two,People's Republic of China will not attack Republic of China .


We can be %100 that Poutine and Xi received similar assessments from their generals about Ukraine. How Ukraine is weak in this, and that, and these...And so on...Then Xi gave Poutine orders to invade Ukraine. Now both leaders are shocked.


----------



## Domobran7

Apollon said:


> I wondered why putin did such idiotic decission and i guess isolation mixed with bootlickers


Nowhere close to that. He actually has rather logical reasons for invading Ukraine, but most of them boil down to "internal politics", "historically ingrained Russian paranoia" and "Europe trying to get independent of Russian gas".

I have an article about it scheduled for this Sunday on blog.

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## Amliunion

🇷🇺🇺🇦 Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

▪️The grouping of troops of the Lugansk People's Republic, continuing offensive operation, is fighting inside Severodonetsk city limits in the north-west, north-east and east. 

▪️Units of the Donetsk People's Republic, developing the offensive, took control of Mikhaylovka, Stavka, Botmanka, Vasilevka and are fighting for Verkhnetoretsk.

💥 During the day, aviation and air defenсe means of the Russian Aerospace Forces shot down: 2 Ukrainian Su-25 aircraft near Chernihov, 1 MiG-29 near Novaya Bykovka, as well as 4 unmanned aerial vehicles.

✈💥 Operational-tactical and army aviation hit 128 military assets of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Among them: 1 Buk-M1 air defence system, 1 Osa air defence system, 4 radar detection and targeting stations, 4 command posts, 7 armament and ammunition depots and 68 areas of military equipment concentration.

💥 In total, 111 Ukrainian aircraft, 68 helicopters, 160 unmanned aerial vehicles, 159 anti-aircraft missile systems, 1,353 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 129 multiple launch rocket systems, 493 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,096 units of special military vehicles were destroyed during the operation.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing 
@mod_russia_en

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## LeGenD

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503903394167070721
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503991058811789312
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503994995308732419
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503790779835236352
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504001035580420096



This is very impressive counterattack.

Ukraine could prevent Russian meddling in its political affairs and invasion by taking its national security seriously, but Ukranian leaders had no foresight unfortunately. Never ever trust your big neighbor blindly.

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## Menthol

The more Ukraine resists...

The more destruction and longer the suffering.

Just give up quickly and promote world peace.

If not, this incident will all over again but greater.

The one that starts all the drama is Ukraine itself.

Too idiot to be fooled and used by the USA.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504004043433259015

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504004706124935168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503982627522494465

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503983061247139842

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503983398297161728

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## RescueRanger

Amliunion said:


> Here is what a good honest helper from Germany experienced at a military checkpoint in Ukraine: “It would be better for Ukraine if you died as a humanitarian aid worker. That gives bad press for Putin."
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503981735364763649


I'm on a telegram group of foreign volunteers and they all complain of the same mistreatment, especially Americans in recent days as they claim they have been getting harassed - I shared the news story about the Brit who went there and never got any weapons and returned it was essentially a suicide mission going up against tanks with your bare fists. 

This is a warning for all those combat chasers who don't understand the realities of war or operating in a crisis/disaster zone which is what Ukraine is. You don't have supply lines, you can't speak the language, many don't have local currency, many don't even has basic gear you would take on deployment. 

In post #19251 on this thread I explained this in great detail - I will share that post here too:

A few things to digest here really since we are on the subject:

1. Ukraine should focus on arming and. Developing it’s national volunteers into reserves and whilst they lack any real resemblance of a military that’s not to say you can’t branch people out based on previous life skills ie mechanics, electricians and plumbers (make good sappers), drivers, anyone with comms experience slap them on radios and BTS maintainance - Russians have been taking our repeater towers and BTS and shot themselves in the foot since they are using short range Moto’s and Baofengs.

2. Foreign volunteers should only be accepted if they are ex military with add on skills such as sappers, medics, SF types - the rest of the Call of Duty types should be thanked and advised to go back home( and I’ll explain why I feel this way).

I’ve already made my position on foreign fighters very clear in a previous post but I strongly feel that the mixed messages from politicians in the west and the soft cuddly messages from the Ukrainians are misleading.

Here is why, judging by some of the videos of volunteers on telegram and elsewhere there are two categories of volunteers joining the Ukrainian foreign legion:

1. Ex military with plenty of experience and seasoned vets

2. Complete greenhorns who don’t have a clue what they are doing.

Whilst I have explained my concern for combat chasers and disgruntled vets in my previous post and the need to risk manage them post their return - for now I am more concerned about those who’s only introduction to combat are movies and video games.

*To those people who fall into the second category I would like to say the following:

Firstly ask yourself why you are going? Is it for the right reasons?

Pre travel:*

Research where you are going: medical issues there and other associated risks such as the fact that Ukraine is dealing with Multiple Drug Resistant Tuberculosis.
Have you had your teeth checked (dentists won’t be available)
Checked you have all your shots (heb b etc)
Had a full once over from a doctor to ensure you are fit and well and your sciatica or asthma isn’t going to flare up in the middle of nowhere.
*Documents:*

have you got all your docs (Poland requires all non Schengen country travellers to have a passport no older than 10 years with a minimum of 6 months validity remaining from the point of entry to the day of your return)
Have you applied for the correct visa(s) - polish visas are incredibly confusing (*I should know I’ve been there).*
Flights: Open return/one way or flex?
Flash money??
PCR tests = Poland still needs them.
Are you vaccinated - if you’re not fully vaccinated (2 shots and a booster) you will be refused entry or required to undergo a 10 day quarantine at your own expense?
Have you made a will ( yes because there is a high chance you will die)
Have you taken photographs of your face and profile and any tattoos and shared these wit your family or trusted contact
Have you discussed proof of life safe word with trusted contact or family member back home
Have you kept your medical history and immunisation record with you on a usb/phone/paper?
Have you considered a big out plan and how you will extract yourself should things go wrong (and they will).
Insurance? People ignore this.
Research where you are going- route and mode of transport- have a travel plan of some sort
Write down your blood type and any allergies on the rear of your helmet or on your body armour
*Equipment:

Comms:* do you have a phone - did you wipe it or get a burner phone

Will your sim work in that part of the world?
Satcoms or SPOT terminal? do you have or can you afford a sat phone or similar terminal?
Radios: Ukrainians are asking volunteers to bring their own FRS or UHF radio - can you travel from your country of origin with one and so you know how to use it?
*PPE & Clothing:*

The Ukrainians have expressly stressed that all foreign volunteers are to bring their own PPE (helmet- body armour/ PC etc) so with that in mind:
Do you have the right Clothing for inclement weather including decent thermal layers ?
How about Weather resistant outers?
High quality boots: did you break them in?
Socks & underwear (never leave for a remote place with most enough socks and underwear)
ear muffs
Cover/lid (hat) a good quality thinsulate beanie hat is a minimum.
Stockings (yes this works)
Woollen or insulated gloves
Neoprene or shooting gloves
*PPE:*

Once again can you afford body armour - do you know what level of protection you need or the cut of the inserts/plates? I’ve seen a lot of folks on Twitter with steel plate in their carriers - if volunteers are going out and they try to save money do they know the difference between anti spall armour and steel plates that can spall?
Image attached:








Helmets: do you go for a ASB style helmet to protect your noggin from bumps or are you going to invest in a ballistic helmet?

*Transport: does your country permit the carriage of such equipment in hold luggage?


Eye and Ear Protection: this is basic stuff but again do you have it?
Leather gloves / riggers gloves - at least 2 pairs
Respirators: do you carry one or do you not? Do you know how to use it and take care of it?
If not the minimum should be a few n95 and partical masks in case you need to help in search and rescue after an explosion or building collapse - also useful when helping in human remain retrieval.
*Food:*

if all you are taking with your is that plate carrier and helmet from eBay and a positive smile you are in for a rude awakening.

These people are at war and food & water among other things will be scarce - the last thing they need is some well intentioned lemon to turn up and become another mouth to feed - be self sufficient.

With that in mind it is important to remember the survival rules of threes:

3 minutes without air
3 hours without shelter (in harsh climate)
3 days without water
3 weeks without food
For food the minimum emergency food supply you should take is 72 hours in your grab bag and another 2 weeks supply in your tab/ruck. This sounds like a lot but in reality it isn’t and you can just buy dried food or expensive MREs it’s up to your choice and budget.

*Water: *waterborne diseases can really do a number on your system - so either consider a filter straw system or get a few boxes of coffee filters - a decent rugged canteen and a shit ton of aqua tabs - know how to use them.

(In an emergency you can also take water from the cistern of a toilet flush- although you will want to purify and filter the water first).

a few sachets of instant coffee/tea/chock milk and juice mix
*Tools:*

E-Tool (Shovel) for digging - if you don’t know how valuable this is - you really shouldn’t be going in the first place.
Knife: any full tang knife is your best friend/ failing that get a decent leather man.
Glow sticks? Need them? Get a set including IR
Fire starter kit or similar kit (poor man’s version is to get a waterproof container and store two or three lighters and matchboxes inside)
Paracord 50 meters
Flagging table /survey tape (orange)- can be used to mark our UXO /Hazard (but unless people know what they are looking for may be useless).
Compass & map (topographic)
Handheld GPS terminal
Sharpie pens
Chalk
Notepad and pens(pencils)
Spare batteries
Flashlight or headlamp
Elephant tape (duct tape)
Signal mirror and whistle
*Shelter:*

Sleeping bag
Ground mat
Bivvy sheet
Extra paracord 50m
*Hygiene:*

Paper roll or wet wipes (obvious)
Wash kit and tooth brush
Talcum powder - perf non perfumed
Roll on deodorant
Nail clippers
*Medical(self):*

IFAK: Individual first aid kit with NP airway
Chetosan or similar hemostatic dressing
Tourniquet x 2
Sterile syringes /w needles (multiple gauges)
Spare combat dressing or gauze and rolls
Blunt tip scissors or EMT shares
Forceps
Chest seal (if trained)
Decompression kit (if trained)
SAM split or similar portable split
Salt sachets or hydration tabs
ORS sachets 2 weeks supply
Laxatives
Calcium Tablets
Broad spectrum antibiotic
Oral pain relief : Paracetamol
Anti inflammatory : Ibuprofen
lidocaine cream or spray
A small packet of cloves or clove oil (excellent temporary pain relief for damaged teeth or cavities and also is an excellent field antibiotic)
Anti Septic cream or powder
Anti fungal powder
Insect repellant
Anti bite kit
Personal medication min x 2 months supply with prescription included
Spare spectacles in case with prescription written inside case
*Good to have;*

Wind up or battery radio: world band ones are good to keep up with the news
Book: pack a book with you - it can be anything that helps keep you sane and during the periods where it is “HURRY UP AND WAIT”.
Cigarettes - get local ones even if you don’t smoke as you can use these to barter with especially at checkpoints or with locals
Chocolate- great morale booster and also can use to barter with
——

As you can see this is a lot of kit and this is just personal stuff you would be expected to have on you to be moderately self reliant for a short period of time.

Now add to this skill at arms training, map and compass, field craft, being able to identify potential UXOs and basic principles of soldiering - all the basic bread and butter stuff and you can quickly see why letting these young and old well intentioned volunteers join an active war zone is a very bad idea.

Add to this the language barrier - only 18% of Ukrainians can speak English- this can prose a serious problem during combat where comms is key.

It’s not just turn up in some eBay tactical gear, grab a gun and yell up yours putin. I seriously worry about them.

*Sorry if digressed but this is a very sore subject for me.*

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## Apollon

Menthol said:


> The more Ukraine resists...
> 
> The more destruction and longer the suffering.
> 
> Just give up quickly and promote world peace.
> 
> If not, this incident will all over again but greater.
> 
> The one that starts all the drama is Ukraine itself.
> 
> Too idiot to be fooled and used by the USA.



Ukraine will never accept barbaric russian dictatorship again. Better dead than living under russian misery.

Thats something that people with slave mentality cant understand.



LeGenD said:


> This is very impressive counterattack.
> 
> Ukraine could Russian meddling in its political affairs and invasion by taking its national security seriously, but Ukranian leaders had no foresight unfortunately. Never ever trust your big neighbor blindly.



Thats extremly impressive.


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## RescueRanger

LeGenD said:


> Never ever trust your big neighbor blindly.


This! 100% also never give up your strategic assets for "promises" and "guarantees".

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## Hack-Hook

Apollon said:


> Thats pure idiocy. France in its history fought extreme brutal wars with extreme bravery. Go visit Verdun.


When they were on offence on defence if they didn't received help and fighter they were not that spectacular


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

LeGenD said:


> This is very impressive counterattack.


Not really, even if true, those are likely abandoned Ukrainian assets that Russian forces couldn't move (likely due to sabotage), not Russian assets. 

proof: look at the helicopter images carefully. Notice how you can't see side wings or double rotors on any of them. That means that they're not Ka-52 gunships for sure, which can be 100% identified as Russian since Ukrainians don't have them. In addition, they are unlikely to be Mi-24s, again due to the lack of side wings although that is a bit trickier since Mi-24 side wings are smaller.

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## alimobin memon

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Not really, even if true, those are likely abandoned Ukrainian assets that Russian forces couldn't move (likely due to sabotage), not Russian assets.
> 
> proof: look at the helicopter images carefully. Notice how you can't see side wings or double rotors on any of them. That means that they're not Ka-52 gunships for sure, which can be 100% identified as Russian since Ukrainians don't have them. In addition, they are unlikely to be Mi-24s, again due to the lack of side wings although that is a bit trickier since Mi-24 side wings are smaller.


Agreed.

No military would ever make same mistake twice especially the likes of Russia. 


The way Ukrainians are claiming Russian vehicles (tanks, armored vehicle) destroyed seems too fishy. 


Why would they keep taking losses the same way ? 


Is it that Ukrainians are so smart and adopt to scenarios but Russians are fools to work based on same tactics? 


How are they advancing even in inches if they are taking so many losses ?


Suddenly Ukraine is no more going to join NATO ?


Yes, some helicopters are russian we cannot deny that as why wouldn't russian not use this base as means of launching sorties. But not all of them are Russians.


----------



## bobo6661

Alaska Must Be Returned To Russia - Political Scientist - Russia Briefing News


By Chris Devonshire-Ellis Distance between Alaska & Russia is just 55km The agreement between Russia and the United States on Alaska must be declared invalid, Russian political scientist Yuri Gorodnenko has stated, due to Washington repeatedly violating the provisions of the Convention on the...



www.russia-briefing.com













Russian lawmaker demands return of Alaska, California fort and reparations amid U.S.-led sanctions


A Russian lawmaker made an outlandish demand over the weekend that the United States return Alaska and a historic settlement in California, in addition to paying reparations to Russia over crippling American-led sanctions that have put Moscow's economy in a tailspin.




www.foxnews.com





Guess China next looks like Iran on the list to


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503970679263219728
💥 Inohodets complexes of attack drones struck at the fortifications and armored vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

▪️UAVs used missile weapons to destroy tanks, and armored vehicles.

▪️Attack drones operated in difficult weather conditions. Inohodets is able to fly at a height of 7.5 kilometers and reach speeds of up to 200 kilometers per hour. The range of its usse is 300 kilometers.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #UAV 
@mod_russia_en

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## Apollon

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Not really, even if true, those are likely abandoned Ukrainian assets that Russian forces couldn't move (likely due to sabotage), not Russian assets.
> 
> proof: look at the helicopter images carefully. Notice how you can't see side wings or double rotors on any of them. That means that they're not Ka-52 gunships for sure, which can be 100% identified as Russian since Ukrainians don't have them. In addition, they are unlikely to be Mi-24s, again due to the lack of side wings although that is a bit trickier since Mi-24 side wings are smaller.



Yesterday Russia claimed to controle that area. Then at night they got smashed


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## Primus

Apollon said:


> Yesterday Russia claimed to controle that area. Then at night they got smashed


The kherson air base attack happened a long time ago wrt the war. The pics are just coming out now


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## Apollon

Endless lines of destroyed russian assets 








Huffal said:


> The kherson air base attack happened a long time ago wrt the war. The pics are just coming out now



No, happened tonight

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## Vergennes

Clutch said:


> Macron is strategizing on how to effectively and quickly surrender. This is Macron getting on the phone and calling Putin up:
> *Macron*: " Hello, Mr. President, we we the French surrender!!"
> *Putin*: "But Russia is not at war with France, what are you surrendering for?"
> *Macron*: "Well... We want to ensure that you know that we have surrendered and you go not need to invade France!"
> *Putin*: "like I said, we have no plans to attack France, you are not a bordering state that is joining NATO and compromising or nation interests! You can relax... Take a deep breath."
> *Macron*: "So you are telling me that you are not coming here?"
> *Putin*: "No we are not. Besides you are a NATO allied country, if Russia comes to France, the rest of the NATO nation will come to France!"
> *Macron*: "NATO here? Can we then surrender to NATO?"
> *Putin slams phone*: "Idiot!!"



Currently seeing Moscow's performance even Poland could walk on Moscow at this rate. BTW those actually surrendering en masse and running away abandonning so much valuable assets are Russian soldiers,no one else.

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## bobo6661

alimobin memon said:


> Yes, some helicopters are russian we cannot deny that as why wouldn't russian not use this base as means of launching sorties. But not all of them are Russians.


If they belonged to Ukraine you would be watching videos from russia claiming they were abandoned ...

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## Primus

Apollon said:


> No, happened tonight


Kherson air base attack?


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503969158370926598

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## bobo6661

Huffal said:


> Kherson air base attack?





Messerschmitt said:


>



more like yestarday looking on the time stamp


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## RescueRanger

Reported copper contamination in the water supply of #Kharkiv


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503999879915491331
This kind of water cannot be treated and is NOT safe to drink and can lead to liver and kidney failure.

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## sammuel

~

Peace talks more 'realistic', says Ukraine president​









Peace talks more 'realistic', says Ukraine president; Biden to visit NATO


Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said on Wednesday peace talks were sounding more realistic but more time was needed, as Russian air strikes killed five people in the capital Kyiv and the refugee tally from Moscow's invasion reached 3 million.




www.reuters.com






~


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## Primus

bobo6661 said:


> more like yestarday looking on the time stamp


This attack was reported a long time ago though on this thread. 

@Vergennes 
Didnt you post this already some time ago?


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503781348250636294


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## Primus

RescueRanger said:


> Reported copper contamination in the water supply of #Kharkiv
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503999879915491331
> This kind of water cannot be treated and is NOT safe to drink and can lead to liver and kidney failure.


London tap water be like

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503930876194955265


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## bobo6661

Huffal said:


> This attack was reported a long time ago though on this thread.


if it was gi me the link, Kherson was hit but its in hand of russians for over a week now


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## Apollon

Huffal said:


> This attack was reported a long time ago though on this thread.
> 
> @Vergennes
> Didnt you post this already some time ago?



Its new attack. Russia took area, that was first battle. Yesterday Ukraine pushed russians out -> new battle


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504004480941326337


----------



## sammuel

~​​Russia's Lavrov says some deals with Ukraine close to being agreed​







Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Wednesday that some formulations for agreements with Ukraine were close to being agreed, with neutral status for Kyiv under "serious" consideration.

However, he told the RBC news outlet that there were other issues of importance too, including the usage of the Russian language in Ukraine and freedom of speech.










Russia's Lavrov says some deals with Ukraine close to being agreed


Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Wednesday that some formulations for agreements with Ukraine were close to being agreed, with neutral status for Kyiv under "serious" consideration.




www.reuters.com


----------



## Maira La

It appears the Ukrainians are giving in to Russian demands. Good day for Putin.

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## Bengal71

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503804626226851852



They are heroes only in killing helpless, defenceless goat herders.

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## Primus

Apollon said:


> Its new attack. Russia took area, that was first battle. Yesterday Ukraine pushed russians out -> new battle


Link?


----------



## bobo6661

Huffal said:


> Link?


its like 3 pages ago ...


Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503903394167070721
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503991058811789312
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503994995308732419
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503790779835236352
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504001035580420096

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## RescueRanger

Huffal said:


> London tap water be like


Ah Thames water.. Killing kettles since 1975

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## Primus

bobo6661 said:


> its like 3 pages ago ...


Hm? Is this the same attack which the Ukr claimed 30 helis destroyed? Or is this a new one?


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## RescueRanger

Russians claim to have captured a Ukrainian arms depot. Couple of MANPADs on display although look damaged at01:52

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504035302482055170
Twitter seems to be blocking accounts on both sides of the debate now:


----------



## Vergennes

Huffal said:


> This attack was reported a long time ago though on this thread.
> 
> @Vergennes
> Didnt you post this already some time ago?



This is a second reported attack on the kherson airfield,however there were no visual confirmation last time.

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## Primus

Vergennes said:


> This is a second reported attack on the kherson airfield,however there were no visual confirmation last time.


Ahhh i got you. Thanks for the clarification


----------



## beast89

kingQamaR said:


> No amount of putting up Russian army news here they are truly bad


Sounding like a broken record

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## RescueRanger

*The wheels are coming off the Ukraine Foreign Legion as people realise WAR is not sunshine and rainbows. *


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503936779509977088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503930469028610052

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## Dustom999

Dead and crippled evacuation going on, Contractors are tasked to bring bodies of US and UK citizens only from near Lviv to Shehyni.

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## Apollon

sammuel said:


> ~​​Russia's Lavrov says some deals with Ukraine close to being agreed​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Wednesday that some formulations for agreements with Ukraine were close to being agreed, with neutral status for Kyiv under "serious" consideration.
> 
> However, he told the RBC news outlet that there were other issues of importance too, including the usage of the Russian language in Ukraine and freedom of speech.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia's Lavrov says some deals with Ukraine close to being agreed
> 
> 
> Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Wednesday that some formulations for agreements with Ukraine were close to being agreed, with neutral status for Kyiv under "serious" consideration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com



He cares for freedom of speech in Ukraine. At same time they snatch demonstrators infront the kremlin.

Lawrow is like comical ali

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## RescueRanger

Dustom999 said:


> Dead and crippled evacuation going on, Contractors are tasked to bring bodies of US and UK citizens only from near Lviv to Shehyni.
> View attachment 824540


Its grim and the media is not covering it, I am in a closed telegram group for "volunteers" in Ukraine and they all say the same thing, there is a media blackout on reporting the number of casualties and abuse foreign volunteers are experiencing (NB: This doesn't include embedded "advisors" working in Kyiv) or so I am told.

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## Avicenna

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> First of all I am completely neutral.. You could say I am slightly leaning on the Ukraine-US side but that being said now.. Whatever you said doesn't hold a candle to the reality.
> 
> Putin has taken huge portion of Ukraine currently right now and militarily his doing better then some assume and their short-comings is overexaggerated. Yes they are meeting heroic Ukrainians who are willing to defend and fight for their country but the truth is always in the middle of both camps who have gone berserker rage by claiming high claims.
> 
> Hence Putin holds 35% of Ukraine today and when he came in he held less then 5% and that is 30% gain in 3 weeks that is not short-comings in the real conventional warfare but in fact an overperformance considering the foe his fighting, the armaments they have, their numbers etc etc. If you take everything into account the Russians on the ground has over-performed thus far but their momentum is slowing down and could be due to weather.
> 
> I think he will be able to reverse the sanctions as he will invade Finland post-Ukraine and use Sweden as bargaining chip to lift all of his sanctions



You really think he will invade Finland?


----------



## Apollon

RescueRanger said:


> Its grim and the media is not covering it, I am in a closed telegram group for "volunteers" in Ukraine and they all say the same thing, there is a media blackout on reporting the number of casualties and abuse foreign volunteers are experiencing (NB: This doesn't include embedded "advisors" working in Kyiv) or so I am told.



Sounds like russian propaganda too me. Its war.



Avicenna said:


> You really think he will invade Finland?



No, his army is incredible weak. The sanctions wont be lifted as long putin is president.

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## Dustom999

This was the same route - Rzeszow to Shehyni that the West was delivering portable weapons, now they are collecting bodies on that route in a matter of days.

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## Kaleem.61

sur said:


> Let me guess what congressmen/Biden will say to Zelensky:
> 
> "*more weapons** for you, yeah! fight you henchmen [aka die for our goals]*"
> 
> *Then congress will shed crocodile tears* for Ukrainians who are suffering as a result of their false promises and interference.
> 
> Lets see if my predictions come true in the morning.


This is business. War is inevitable for some or many!


----------



## RescueRanger

Apollon said:


> Sounds like russian propaganda too me. Its war.
> 
> 
> 
> No, his army is incredible weak. The sanctions wont be lifted as long putin is president.


I have been on this green earth long enough to see through propaganda and thinly veiled lies. This will all come out of the bag when body bags start flying home. Don't believe me just look at how quickly the sub reddit is being moderated with dissenting voices from "volunteers" who are posting videos from UKRAINE right now. 1 sec they are there and the next second poof! gone! This is why people are turning to Tiktok to get the message out. 

I have been against the idea of foreign fighters from the start because I have seen first hand the chaos that follows such practices.



Avicenna said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503698662190329859


Yeah he posted this video on the 14th he was part of the "elite" Brazilians on the ground:

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504042246911442948

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## LeGenD

Different members are posting same stuff over and over again. My suggestion is to check latest 10 pages before posting contents, or use search option.

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## Ali_Baba

kingQamaR said:


> Putin is finished........He wins in Ukraine the world won't deal with him, if he loses then the world won't deal with Russia until they get rid of him. Either way he loses



This events shows that Putin thinks at a tactical level - and it shows the flaws in the strategic thinking of the Russian 'system' at a whole.

Sweden and Finland WILL join Nato now - there is no stopping that now.

Regardless of what 'tactical' wins Putin may gain - he and Russia have both lost strategically - Russia will be neutered after this event and will not be allowed to be able to challenge like this again.

Europe is united and defence spending is going up massively in Europe - this means that the Americans have to spend less on "defending Europe" and the Europeans will aggressively look to build up that capability themselves.

This leaves the Americans "more free" to tackle China at a military level - and I don't think that change has been lost on the Chinese at all. 

The China - Russia axis has become a-lot weaker from this war. So - were the Russians goaded into this war with larger strategic objectives by the Americans ?

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## Apollon

Russia goes to new low. Troops have take hospital of mariupol hostage 









Ukraine-Krieg: Ukraine meldet Angriffe auf Flüchtlingskonvoi und Theater in Mariupol - WELT


Ukrainischen Angaben zufolge haben russische Truppen ein Theater in Mariupol mit hunderten Zivilisten bombardiert. Auch ein Flüchtlingskonvoi nahe der Stadt soll angegriffen worden sein. Im besetzten Cherson droht den Menschen derweil eine humanitäre Katastrophe. Ein Überblick.




www.welt.de





400 patients, doctors and nurses taken hostage


----------



## Zibago

RescueRanger said:


> Reported copper contamination in the water supply of #Kharkiv
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503999879915491331
> This kind of water cannot be treated and is NOT safe to drink and can lead to liver and kidney failure.


Looks like Gatorade

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503961157496983555

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## dBSPL

Russian military experts and analysts on State channels began to discuss the next goals of Russia and how to take European countries

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504024523758260225

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## Avicenna

dBSPL said:


> Russian military experts and analysts on State channels began to discuss the next goals of Russia and how to take European countries
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504024523758260225



It's like Fox News in Russian.

Stupidity comes in all nationalities.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503982005217804289

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## dBSPL

"Russian helicopters at Kherson Air Base were shot by Ukrainian artillery. Satellite images show burning helicopters. The other helicopters look like they weren't transported and left to their fate."





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503997067462688772


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504052737230708736

Things are not going well for Russia when Ukraine dictates like this


----------



## EasyNow

Ali_Baba said:


> This events shows that Putin thinks at a tactical level - and it shows the flaws in the strategic thinking of the Russian 'system' at a whole.
> 
> Sweden and Finland WILL join Nato now - there is no stopping that now.
> 
> Regardless of what 'tactical' wins Putin may gain - he and Russia have both lost strategically - Russia will be neutered after this event and will not be allowed to be able to challenge like this again.
> 
> Europe is united and defence spending is going up massively in Europe - this means that the Americans have to spend less on "defending Europe" and the Europeans will aggressively look to build up that capability themselves.
> 
> This leaves the Americans "more free" to tackle China at a military level - and I don't think that change has been lost on the Chinese at all.
> 
> The China - Russia axis has become a-lot weaker from this war. So - were the Russians goaded into this war with larger strategic objectives by the Americans ?



I think you're right in your assessment.

NATO goaded Russia into suicide here - they've managed to engage Russia, without world war, before it gets too strong.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504040038136483840

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## dBSPL

On March 7 and 15, total 14 helicopters of the invading Russian forces deployed at Kherson airport were destroyed. An artillery attack was carried out on the same base, one week apart.

Facepalm... Helicopters were stationed within enemy artillery range and an entire fleet was lost. Look, it's great shame for any army. No NATO country army would do such an amateurish thing.

It is one of the dozens of indicators that the Russian army has become a rotten structure with a merit problem.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504042326305525770

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## RescueRanger

Okay something is up - 








First Medivac from border with Lviv landed at this airfield in Poland:
50*19'20" N 021*27'31" E





Now second Medivac Chopper just took off from the same strip:

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## Primus

dBSPL said:


> On March 7 and 15, total 14 helicopters of the invading Russian forces deployed at Kherson airport were destroyed. An artillery attack was carried out on the same base, one week apart.
> 
> Facepalm... Helicopters were stationed within enemy artillery range and an entire fleet was lost. Look, it's great shame for any army. No NATO country army would do such an amateurish thing.
> 
> It is one of the dozens of indicators that the Russian army has become a rotten structure with a merit problem.


2003 attack on karbala.

31 apaches were turned back after being hit by AA. 1 shot down, 1 crashed/shot down, remaining 29 damaged by AA with an additional 2 more being damaged beyond repair.

Losses happen in war. Its a sad reality.

No countrys military is perfect. There will ALWAYS be a time when things dont go your way

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504045300352266244

The Chinese are now throwing the Russians under the bus

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504056691268198407

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## dBSPL

The average depth of the Azov Sea is 15 meters. 70% of it shallower than 8 meters. Ukraine has also mined all coastal waters in Azov. But some so-called military experts claim that Russian submarines are roaming in this sea.

The extreme Russia admiration of some ex-soldiers in some European countries (inc. Turkey) is remarkable.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504033406971228164
The fact the Russians are using expensive PGMs on civilian infrastructure just confirms the idiocy and corruption of senior military leadership. Have no doubt the US military would skulldrag these buffoons on the battlefield.


----------



## Ali_Baba

dBSPL said:


> "Russian helicopters at Kherson Air Base were shot by Ukrainian artillery. Satellite images show burning helicopters. The other helicopters look like they weren't transported and left to their fate."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503997067462688772



Imagine a future where a large cruise missile delivers 10's/100's of smart/AI based suicide drones over an airfield each with the explosive power of a grenade. The Americans and Chinese are working on this and others will not be that far behind.

Future of warfare is brutal and *** fast *** ... entire suites of capabilities can be lost in a moment.. Such a change - requires a change in doctrine and who "strikes" first becomes ever more important than it used to in the past - given how much damage first mover advantage offers you now..

Drones are a massive game changer as is AI ... dont think everyone has worked out what this means for the future of warfare yet.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504050396012191745
Some mentally retarded members here argued that Montreux was to block Russia and that Turkey is hostile to Russia. Anyone remember?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504031933638098944


----------



## Dustom999

RescueRanger said:


> Okay something is up -
> View attachment 824551
> 
> View attachment 824552
> 
> First Medivac from border with Lviv landed at this airfield in Poland:
> 50*19'20" N 021*27'31" E
> View attachment 824553
> 
> 
> Now second Medivac Chopper just took off from the same strip:
> View attachment 824554


There have been 3 US choppers involved ( 2 US Army and one private) making 4 trips to border of poland /Ukrain just today.

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## Ali_Baba

dBSPL said:


> On March 7 and 15, total 14 helicopters of the invading Russian forces deployed at Kherson airport were destroyed. An artillery attack was carried out on the same base, one week apart.
> 
> Facepalm... Helicopters were stationed within enemy artillery range and an entire fleet was lost. Look, it's great shame for any army. No NATO country army would do such an amateurish thing.
> 
> It is one of the dozens of indicators that the Russian army has become a rotten structure with a merit problem.



You can see at that airbase so many dispersal points - one for each helicopter - which would have reduced the impact of artillery strikes - lack of tactical thinking is shocking at multiple levels.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504058736456916995

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## RescueRanger

Dustom999 said:


> There have been 3 US choppers involved ( 2 US Army and one private) making 4 trips to border of poland /Ukrain just today.


Yup been tracking them but I am more interested in the US mil assets because the civilian one can be just considered a civ medivac not the impact as mil assets engaged in medivac. Also C130 en-route from Ramstein now.


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## Ali_Baba

dBSPL said:


> "Russian helicopters at Kherson Air Base were shot by Ukrainian artillery. Satellite images show burning helicopters. The other helicopters look like they weren't transported and left to their fate."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503997067462688772











Ukraine Strikes Back: Barrage Leaves Russian-Occupied Kherson Airbase In Flames (Updated)


Satellite images show multiple aircraft were destroyed in a Ukrainian attack on Russia's forward operating near Kherson.




www.thedrive.com





A write up of the incident.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504052663280967684But but nazis... They want to join nato

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504061860282310660

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## serenity

Yesterday it was the claim that China is going to sell weapons to Russia and send Russia aid.

Today it is the claim that China is supporting Ukraine.

Some people need to calm down with the spamming and the reactionary stuff. Just observe and wait for more nuanced take.

China is voicing some support for Ukraine and a week ago sent aid to Ukraine. It is not willing to stand on any side on a European theater matter and an issue between Ukraine, Russia, and NATO.

Completely going with Russia means opening itself to PR attacks from the West and losing Ukraine's at best neutrality. Completely going with Ukraine means opening up hostilities with Russia and ending the relationship with Russia where Russia is a large military on China's borders (almost like western Europe feels with Russia but from the far eastern side). It also means no more buying Russian energy for the same prices at least if even access is granted.

I think China increasingly voicing support for either side is actually a litmus test of the opposite of what some propagandists think and say. It is going to be much more talking for the weaker and for the side losing and being victim. The winning side doesn't need aid or morale boosting. It's always better to look like supporting a victim. We all know Ukraine alone cannot defeat Russia. No amount of propaganda and spamming can deny the truth. Russia is winning this war and already pretty much has air, information, digital, and ground force superiority. Of course selective posting of one sided losses and wins means nothing.

The real fighting afterwards is the insurgent resistance effort from Ukrainian side. Just like US won the war within 2 weeks in Desert Storm, insurgent war and occupation is not the same war. When you are opening prisons, arming civilians, accepting foreign mercenaries to do whatever, the war is over. Insurgent vs occupation is another type of war and the propagandists are just going to reframe and continue spamming without a pause to think and make sense of things. Always one angle, one dimension, one side.

This video is actually quite decent and relatively unbiased... as much as it can be especially for a person who does personally stand on one side definitively.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504022343928229893
More tacit acceptance from the Putin regime that all is not according to plan

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

drone footage


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504056691268198407

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504059482598518788


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504056185879764993
The Switchblades will decimate Russian ground forces. They fly a lot faster than the TB2 drones.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

battle in Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504057212477575172


----------



## F-22Raptor



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## serenity

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504022343928229893
> More tacit acceptance from the Putin regime that all is not according to plan



This isn't exactly fairly framed. Russians never stated their goal being taking over all of Ukraine. Maybe their game here is to make it seem like and then settle for what they want, annexing certain parts of Ukraine. This allows Russia to escape the trap of occupation vs insurgency war.

Russia militarily cannot afford to be trapped in such a type of war.

Ukraine also said they wanted to compromise and reach some agreements and previously said Russian demands were too great. I suspect these are just two sides haggling over a deal and both employing haggling tactics like one would do with a vendor in a tourist area lol. Ukraine making deals and previously saying they're willing to make deals doesn't mean "Ukraine regime is not according to plan".


----------



## Paul2

LeGenD said:


> Different members are posting same stuff over and over again. My suggestion is to check latest 10 pages before posting contents, or use search option.



I suggest PDF ban people whose literally ONLY posts for 3 years been Twitter feeds, or just few posts per years, and tons of Twitter feeds.

We can read Twitter ourselves. One can only fathom who would go through stringent PDF vetting to be silent for years, and then start pouring Twitter feeds 24/7

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## JX-1

gambit said:


> 'might is right' the dominant foreign affairs policy


That's how it is and always has been. It's just that with the global nature of today's economy, money, sanctions, propaganda and proxies are first used to apply pressure and if all else fails, a military intervention.

Afghanistan didn't comply with US, it got invaded. Libya complied and gave up nukes, look what Gaddafi got in return. Ukraine gave up nukes and didn't comply with Russia, it got invaded. India acts against China, they are beaten so badly that they are afraid to even utter China's name officially. All South Asian countries including Bangladesh with its strong economy are essentially Indian puppet states, except Pakistan because of its strong military.


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504056185879764993
> The Switchblades will decimate Russian ground forces. They fly a lot faster than the TB2 drones.


We can expect the Russian side to come running to the negotiating table if this is effective


----------



## Paul2

Ali_Baba said:


> Imagine a future where a large cruise missile delivers 10's/100's of smart/AI based suicide drones over an airfield each with the explosive power of a grenade. The Americans and Chinese are working on this and others will not be that far behind.
> 
> Future of warfare is brutal and *** fast *** ... entire suites of capabilities can be lost in a moment.. Such a change - requires a change in doctrine and who "strikes" first becomes ever more important than it used to in the past - given how much damage first mover advantage offers you now..
> 
> Drones are a massive game changer as is AI ... dont think everyone has worked out what this means for the future of warfare yet.



Yes, CBU 97, and XM29 are only peanuts vs. what is to come.

Imagine 122mm missiles carrying cluster munitions with these switchblades with HEAT warheads.

2-3 drones per missile, and can cover an area bigger than a whole 300mm salvo.

XM29 got 1 kill per 2.5 rockets, 4-5 kills per salvo.

A Grad with Switchblades with 30% kill rate would be 40 kills per salvo, or 1 dead armour battalion.


----------



## dBSPL

The Central Bank of Russia has announced that the Russian Mir card payment system can be used in Turkey to withdraw cash and pay for shopping on Türkiye İş Bankası, Ziraat Bankası and VakıfBank devices.

Russians are preparing to shop through Turkish banks.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503845091408072713

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## Wood

serenity said:


> This isn't exactly fairly framed. Russians never stated their goal being taking over all of Ukraine. Maybe their game here is to make it seem like and then settle for what they want, annexing certain parts of Ukraine. This allows Russia to escape the trap of occupation vs insurgency war.
> 
> Russia militarily cannot afford to be trapped in such a type of war.
> 
> Ukraine also said they wanted to compromise and reach some agreements and previously said Russian demands were too great. I suspect these are just two sides haggling over a deal and both employing haggling tactics like one would do with a vendor in a tourist area lol. Ukraine making deals and previously saying they're willing to make deals doesn't mean "Ukraine regime is not according to plan".


Russia wanted a surrender from Ukraine before. They went to invade Kyiv with a political goal of installing a new pliant political leadership in the country. It does not seem like this is going to be the case anymore


----------



## dBSPL

Emissions are visible in the NASA GEOS-5 system across Europe. 






__
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/te09gu

In a few months, coal consumption will increase significantly across Europe. This map shows only the atmospheric effect of the Ukrainian war, but the consequences will be much greater.

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## Amliunion

Hope Russia attack the Convoy supplying this:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504067534684921862

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504071814519029764


----------



## vizier

Wood said:


> We can expect the Russian side to come running to the negotiating table if this is effective


Small drones can be wideband jammed close range by man portable drone jammers or ew systems like leer 3-4. Hitting mobile targets would be difficult. Home on jam is an option but might be difficult to implement for small drones.

However static targets is another story. ins + gps or if gps is jammed simple image recognition close to target site coupled with ins would be enough to hit non heaviliy fortified static positions.

What would be a breakthrough in my opinion is when a mini cruise missle 50-100km+ range with a miniaturized jet engine is developed standing under its body that can be launched from small trucks. These would be faster and have heavier warhead for hitting buildings and more fortified positions and would be small-terrain hugging enough to evade enemy mobile ads. These can be hidden like atgms and manpads as well in bunkers-houses-buildings similar to grad rockets used by infantry groups worldwide.

So even if enemy forces capture some land it will be difficult to hold that position under continious attacks.

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## RescueRanger

Amliunion said:


> Hope Russia attack the Convoy supplying this:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504067534684921862


They have bigger problems at home:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504057954701561857

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## Beny Karachun

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504056185879764993
> The Switchblades will decimate Russian ground forces. They fly a lot faster than the TB2 drones.


I wish we sent in the Spike NLOS


----------



## Wood

Amliunion said:


> Hope Russia attack the Convoy supplying this:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504067534684921862


More good news. Russian side will not find it easy to take Kyiv under proper SAM cover


----------



## Type59

dBSPL said:


> On March 7 and 15, total 14 helicopters of the invading Russian forces deployed at Kherson airport were destroyed. An artillery attack was carried out on the same base, one week apart.
> 
> Facepalm... Helicopters were stationed within enemy artillery range and an entire fleet was lost. Look, it's great shame for any army. No NATO country army would do such an amateurish thing.
> 
> It is one of the dozens of indicators that the Russian army has become a rotten structure with a merit problem.



I followed the insurgency in Iraq. I remember one attack damaged and destroyed a number of Blackhawks.





__





US base attacked in Iraq


<p>Mortar rounds hit a US Air Force base north of Baghdad today, destroying one helicopter and damaging nine others, police said.</p>




www.irishexaminer.com

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## Type59

RescueRanger said:


> They have bigger problems at home:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504057954701561857


Problem globally


----------



## RescueRanger

Type59 said:


> Problem globally


More so when you are a cash strapped nation with an economy nose diving into oblivion.

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## FuturePAF

A very good unbiased video from a veteran Iraq war soldier.

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## Wood




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## Vergennes

lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503839941104656390

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504071275475619842

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## Vergennes

T72B3


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504082473902387209

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504081803510001666

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## sur

RescueRanger said:


> Its grim and the media is not covering it, I am in a closed telegram group for "volunteers" in Ukraine and they all say the same thing, there is a media blackout on reporting the number of casualties and *abuse foreign volunteers are experiencing* (NB: This doesn't include embedded "advisors" working in Kyiv) or so I am told.


At least some volunteers are going back home *disguised as refugees*:








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503930469028610052



While this volunteer *contradicted himself* in two messages:
First agreed there was poor treatment of volunteers. In a later video negated it. 

(Agreed with poor treatment of volunteers) . . . (Then negated it)

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## Apollon

Russia is set to go bancrupt in next days. IWF says that default is imminent.









Russia Pays Bondholders Despite Western Sanctions: What to Know


Russia missed a big set of dollar-bond payments due to foreign bondholders this week, and the Kremlin has until early May to make sure the creditors are paid before the country’s government could be deemed in default.




www.wsj.com

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503927550401204225


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504062544507461639


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## Vergennes

It's funny though to note the inability of the "world's second most powerful army" to conduct night operations,most of their offensives are made the day. Majority of their soldiers and confirmed by the gear Ukrainian soldiers capture aren't equipped with NVGs nor other night vision equipments. 

Ukrainians,supplied with night vision equipments by western countries are benfiting of this loophole and conducting attacks/counter offensives/ambushes at night.

@RescueRanger @LeGenD @F-22Raptor

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## Flight of falcon

unbelievable propaganda channels and non stop fake news cannot change the fact that Russians have obliterated Ukrainian defences and entire military infrastructure. 

Except hit and run tactics done by foreign mercenaries they have either lost their major towns and cities or are completely surrounded and at the mercy of the Russian forces. 

If Russians don’t bomb for the fear of hitting civilians then Western propaganda mocks them by saying that the advance is stalled. 

If Russians start bombing then they start crying like little babies we are getting hurt. WTH….. 

meanwhile little drama Queen Zalanski is setting a new world record in giving press conferences and making zoom calls to every country and YouTube channels. 

How long before Zalenski is nominated for a Nobel peace price for getting his own county destroyed ….or Oscar for his performance as a comedian ?

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## RescueRanger

sur said:


> At least some volunteers are going back home *disguised as refugees*:
> 
> View attachment 824577
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503930469028610052
> 
> 
> 
> While this volunteer *contradicted himself* in two messages:
> First agreed there was poor treatment of volunteers. In a later video negated it.
> 
> (Agreed with poor treatment of volunteers) . . . (Then negated it)


Its comedy gold, someone needs to make a compilation of these nincompoops!



Vergennes said:


> It's funny though to note the inability of the "world's second most powerful army" to conduct night operations,most of their offensives are made the day. Majority of their soldiers and confirmed by the gear Ukrainian soldiers capture aren't equipped with NVGs nor other night vision equipments.
> 
> Ukrainians,supplied with night vision equipments by western countries are benfiting of this loophole and conducting attacks/counter offensives/ambushes at night.
> 
> @RescueRanger @LeGenD @F-22Raptor


Agreed and you know the most hilarious part of all this is that most of the NVGs supplied to the UKR volunteer forces are made in Russia.

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## dBSPL

Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov:

“(Ukrainian crisis) Turkey follows a pragmatic line, its approach is extremely balanced. It did not participate in unilateral sanctions against Russia.”

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504082043344506883

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## RescueRanger

@sur 


__
https://www.tiktok.com/video/7074784464064302379

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504086410076332035

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504089889259851785

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504089278573334530

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ka-52 Alligator CAS helicopter


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503618012171091971


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## Flight of falcon

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504086410076332035




Ghost of Kiev sank this ship and shot down 200 tanks all in one sortie.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Smerch artillery in Kherson


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503750330089099272
Tigr armored cars


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503794038415282190

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## dBSPL

Flight of falcon said:


> Ghost of Kiev sank this ship and shot down 200 tanks all in one sortie.


It was claimed that this boat was sunk by artillery (MLRS) shots. In fact, some images showing that the ship was hit were circulating on social media. However, today, Russian sources refuted these claims with the images they published.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503908597184483328


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## Apollon

So it begins 

German energy giant Eon stops buying russian gas 









E.ON has stopped procuring new gas from Gazprom trading firms


E.ON has stopped procuring new gas amounts from Gazprom trading companies in Europe in response to the war in Ukraine, the group's Chief Executive Leonhard Birnbaum said on Wednesday.




www.reuters.com

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## Wood

FuturePAF said:


> A very good unbiased video from a veteran Iraq war soldier.


Good video. Thanks to the resident Russian sympathizers in this thread, most of what this guy said is already known to us. Also, the US congress will not allocate $10+ billion to Ukraine if they think that the Ukrainians are winning. Most of what the Ukrainians have achieved so far is to stall the Russian progress and make them look bad on CNN


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## dBSPL

The goal of our operation is the disarmament of Ukraine and its cleansing from fascist ideology.

—Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov

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## LeGenD

For Syrian survivors, Russia’s tactics in Ukraine eerily similar


After years of propping up President Bashar al-Assad in Syria, experts say Russia is using the same playbook in Ukraine.




www.aljazeera.com













Russia-Ukraine war military dispatch: March 15, 2022


A roundup of the key battleground developments on Day 20 of Russia’s multi-pronged invasion of Ukraine.




www.aljazeera.com


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504083018876694544


----------



## Meengla

A ceasefire should be coming up within weeks if not days based on Lavrov and Zellenskyy latest comments. Perhaps Zellensky knows that the West will fight Russia to the last Ukrainian and Russia knows that Russia greatly miscalculated. The two nations are kins for the most part. They know each other. 
If Russia manages to block off the sea access for Ukraine and take even a few dozen miles in eastern Ukraine and place Russian weapons targeting Kiev, such a North Korea does to Seoul, and preferably, for Russia, make the Dnieper River as the front line then a big Russian win.
We need to understand this: Russia maybe a pale shadow of its former power but as long as it is willing to take losses to gain territory and as long as it can use its vast natural resources, Russia will more than survive. And it is possible it may even thrive in short to medium term....

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

attacking ammo warehouse


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504075970898444289


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## RescueRanger

sur said:


> How do we tell it's medivac?
> Is it by the "*EVAC* 02"?


That and the fact they are making trips from hospital:
Landed at Rzeszow after a short journey to Kliniczny Szpital Wojewódzki Nr 2 im. Św. Jadwigi Królowej w Rzeszowie








Rzeszow Airport. There is also a USAF C-130 which took off from Rammstein now approaching for landing.

And it's up in the air again to the Pad in Mielec:

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## nang2

Beny Karachun said:


> I know, this is a problem all across Asia.
> The difference between Taiwan and China is that China straight out bans footage that shows Chinese soldiers as weak.
> Part of their propaganda effort.


Some soldiers will certainly be weak but training shouldn't be. I grew up in Chinese military. Many of my childhood friends went to different military units. They often came back and bragged about how tough the training they had and how they got through. They even trained girls harshly, too. My mom was the commanding officer of two girls, whose parents were the friends of my parents and I knew the girls, too. My mom invited them for dinner after their military training and I opened the door to greet them. Good lord! They had changed from two pretty girls to two black girls with rough skins. But that was long time ago. I don't know if things have fundamentally changed since then.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504097303862386689

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> View attachment 824561



25 miles means they can be fired at the long convoy from a distance safely and they will devastate that convoy ...

Will help in taking back captured cities as all tanks/infantry vehicles and artillery positions can be taken out easily - Putins special operation is a treasure trove opportunity to try out new concepts of warfare directly on Russian assets..

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## LeGenD

dBSPL said:


> The goal of our operation is the disarmament of Ukraine and its cleansing from fascist ideology.
> 
> —Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov


Meanwhile:

15000 Russians arrested for protesting over ongoing war in Ukraine and its damaging implications since 24-02-22.









Независимый правозащитный медиа-проект ОВД-Инфо


ОВД-Инфо, ОВД Инфо, OVD-Info, протесты, акция, задержание, обыск, арест, свобода собраний, политпрессинг, мониторинг, горячая линия, юристы, юридическая помощь, правозащита, правозащитники, пикет,…




ovdinfo.org

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## Vergennes

Russian President Vladimir Putin assured Wednesday that his military operation in Ukraine was a "success", saying that Moscow would not let this country become a "beachhead" for "aggressive actions" against Russia. 

“The operation is taking place successfully, in strict accordance with the pre-established plans”, declared Vladimir Putin according to remarks broadcast on television, assuring once again that he does not intend to “occupy” Ukraine.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504099143320576001
Russian helicopters having a rough few days

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## nang2

Vergennes said:


> Russian President Vladimir Putin assured Wednesday that his military operation in Ukraine was a "success", saying that Moscow would not let this country become a "beachhead" for "aggressive actions" against Russia.
> 
> “The operation is taking place successfully, in strict accordance with the pre-established plans”, declared Vladimir Putin according to remarks broadcast on television, assuring once again that he does not intend to “occupy” Ukraine.


It is a "tactical truth" and there is no way you can refute it.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

gunboat blockading Odessa port


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504085170860736516


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## dBSPL

Ukrainians fleeing the fighting has now surpassed *three million*: Some 3,000,381 people have so far left Ukraine, data from the U.N. Refugee Agency (UNHCR) showed. It is basing its aid plans on four million refugees but has said the figure will likely increase.

On March 2, the figure of 1 million was exceeded.
On March 7, 2 million was surpassed.
On March 15, 3 million surpassed.

If a ceasefire is not achieved, the number of refugees will reach 4 million in the next 2 weeks. If the Odessa operation starts, this figure could climb much faster.

While Russia accuses Ukraine of fascism, it is carrying on a full-blown ethnic cleansing operation in Ukraine.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504099860601085952

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## nang2

dBSPL said:


> Ukrainians fleeing the fighting has now surpassed *three million*: Some 3,000,381 people have so far left Ukraine, data from the U.N. Refugee Agency (UNHCR) showed. It is basing its aid plans on four million refugees but has said the figure will likely increase.
> 
> On March 2, the figure of 1 million was exceeded.
> On March 7, 2 million was surpassed.
> On March 15, 3 million surpassed.
> 
> If a ceasefire is not achieved, the number of refugees will reach 4 million in the next 2 weeks. If the Odessa operation starts, this figure could climb much faster.
> 
> While Russia accuses Ukraine of fascism, it is carrying on a full-blown ethnic cleansing operation in Ukraine.


Wait. Are you equating fleeing Ukrainians with killed Ukrainians? How does that "ethnic cleansing" come from?


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## Wood

Vergennes said:


> Russian President Vladimir Putin assured Wednesday that his military operation in Ukraine was a "success", saying that Moscow would not let this country become a "beachhead" for "aggressive actions" against Russia.
> 
> “The operation is taking place successfully, in strict accordance with the pre-established plans”, declared Vladimir Putin according to remarks broadcast on television, assuring once again that he does not intend to “occupy” Ukraine.


... and the plan involved recruiting mercenaries from Syria and putting the intelligence chief and deputy in FSB under house arrest


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504099997847011331

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504099342982037505

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russians got hands on more Javelin and NLAW and Panzerfaust 3 for reverse engineering and mass production.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503766146213888003

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504099342982037505


Human terrain operations- the Americans are experts at it.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russian war correspondent having fun with Javelin


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503528473654173697
Russian soldiers armed with Javelin


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502390203411058690

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504102529281544200

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## Wood



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## Avicenna

Some flight from Dover AFB making its way to Poland?









Live Flight Tracker - Real-Time Flight Tracker Map | Flightradar24


View flight N8371 from Dover to Rzeszow on Flightradar24




www.flightradar24.com

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## Apollon

Meengla said:


> A ceasefire should be coming up within weeks if not days based on Lavrov and Zellenskyy latest comments. Perhaps Zellensky knows that the West will fight Russia to the last Ukrainian and Russia knows that Russia greatly miscalculated. The two nations are kins for the most part. They know each other.
> If Russia manages to block off the sea access for Ukraine and take even a few dozen miles in eastern Ukraine and place Russian weapons targeting Kiev, such a North Korea does to Seoul, and preferably, for Russia, make the Dnieper River as the front line then a big Russian win.
> We need to understand this: Russia maybe a pale shadow of its former power but as long as it is willing to take losses to gain territory and as long as it can use its vast natural resources, Russia will more than survive. And it is possible it may even thrive in short to medium term....



Thrive? Its cut from Europe. Economy, sport and culture completly wiped out. Its smart and young run away

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## RescueRanger

Wood said:


>


There is a very good documentary on the inner circle of Hitler. Looking at this I can’t help but laugh 😂 it’s comical but scary at the same time.

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## JonAsad

__
https://www.tiktok.com/video/7075051665132375298

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504102771129266183


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russia backed separatists learn how to use NLAW to shoot Ukrainian tanks. Russia reverse engineered NLAW and made thousands of these and supplied to Russia backed separatists.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504100340307738631

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## RescueRanger

Avicenna said:


> Some flight from Dover AFB making its way to Poland?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Live Flight Tracker - Real-Time Flight Tracker Map | Flightradar24
> 
> 
> View flight N8371 from Dover to Rzeszow on Flightradar24
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.flightradar24.com


It’s a USTRANSCOM flight.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia backed separatists learn how to use NLAW to shoot Ukrainian tanks. Russia reverse engineered NLAW and made thousands of these and supplied to Russia backed separatists.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504100340307738631


NLAW only needs an hour of training and is different from other shoulder launched anti tank weapons. In fact each transportation case carries instructions in Ukrainian.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504104169359167497

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## Wood

RescueRanger said:


> There is a very good documentary on the inner circle of Hitler. Looking at this I can’t help but laugh 😂 it’s comical but scary at the same time.


South Asian countries have luckily escaped this horror. The region has flawed democracy for sure. But still the opposition leaders have an outlet to express views and the media is allowed to air them to public. As it is said, "absolute power corrupts absolutely". No matter how benevolent a dictator may seem, give him/her enough time and you will see the person's inner demons get the better of 'em. We all have evil in our heart, it is part of our animal nature. Only through checks and balances that ensure that anyone can be replaced will a society thrive.

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## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504099860601085952



Maybe, but the oligarchs dont have their yachts in north korea, somalia, syria or Eritrea. They have them here where we do the sanctions. 😅

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## Amliunion

RescueRanger said:


> They have bigger problems at home:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504057954701561857



Mate, if you've or someone has already mentioned this in the thread, then I request you to navigate me to it: I wanted to know can Russia overcome these Sanctions?

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## Apollon

Wood said:


> ... and the plan involved recruiting mercenaries from Syria and putting the intelligence chief and deputy in FSB under house arrest



Yes it also included death of 5 generals and complete collapse of logistics. He also planned for 60% of russian assets to be confiscated. Genius!

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russians captured American hardware in Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504094563409047553

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## RescueRanger

Amliunion said:


> Mate, if you've or someone has already mentioned this in the thread, then I request you to navigate me to it: I wanted to know can Russia overcome these Sanctions?


Sadly the thread is now 1100 pages long but a long of valuable mentioned have been posted.

Ultimately Russia is too big to fail and you will see the Ruble rise again because well nations are still buying oil and wheat and influence with Russia including Germany at present.

Interesting to note that Russia is one of the largest supplies of nickel which is in everything from smartphones to smart cars.

The sanctions are hitting Russia more so now that the assets have been frozen but I will reiterate my earlier statement again Russia is just too big to fail.

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## Meengla

Apollon said:


> Thrive? Its cut from Europe. Economy, sport and culture completly wiped out. Its smart and young run away



Yes, it is possible Russia could even 'thrive' if it is seen to have achieved its basic goals--which are not impossible-- by the larger world community. Russia has enormous natural resources, the cause I think for Nato's expansion. There was and is nothing to do with 'freedom and democracy'. But that's for another topic. 

As for people fleeing Russia?? You being from Greece should know that Greeks have, on per capita in the world, emigrated from Greece in probably the highest numbers but I hear the Greek economy is coming up and people going back and I am happy for Greece! I know a few things about it--I have a Greek lady in my friends circle. Also don't forget that even the most wretched Asian country like Afghanistan managed to get people back when the American Dollars flowed between 2001-2021.
Russia has far better prospects than Greece or Afghanistan and money is like honey to bees!

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## dBSPL

The arrival of the Russian army near Kyiv is not aimed at the invasion of Ukraine -Putin

(Russian style humor)

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ukrainians armed with captured Tigr armored car armed with Kord heavy machine gun


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504105166647275525


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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> The arrival of the Russian army near Kyiv is not aimed at the invasion of Ukraine -Putin
> 
> (Russian style humor)


Remember this?







And yes that is a screenshot from command and conquer the video game 😂

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## Maira La

Apollon said:


> Yes it also included death of 5 generals and complete collapse of logistics. He also planned for 60% of russian assets to be confiscated. Genius!



Let's not kid ourselves with unsubstantiated propaganda, Russia has complete upper hand militarily. The only thing that stops them from going all out is not Ukrainian resistance, it's the prospect of mass civilian casualties that deters the Russian war machine.

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## EvoluXon

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504086410076332035


The sheer amount of lie by west and ukrainians are getting exposed and shame on them ...where is macho NATO? .. no wonder when u cant fight with weapons you make propaganda as one of your primary weapon..

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## RescueRanger

Maira La said:


> Russian war machine.

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## dBSPL

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 824627


Hippie ambulance loaded with full of morphine

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 824627



Overdoing the Z much.

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> Hippie ambulance loaded with full of morphine


More like shaggy asking Scooby Doo “how’d we get into this mess?” 😂

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## tower9

TheNoob said:


> All these people talking about russian having no economy after this will shed tears at the success of my fried chicken chain business in Russia.
> 
> 
> Prepare yourself for the opportunity that has opened itself after the closure of major international chains!
> 
> Edit: will also eventually open stores in the new ukraine as well!


What’s the name of your restaurant? Are you Russian?


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## Flight of falcon

No country no matter how small and poor ever stopped fighting because of sanctions .

Iran , North Korea , Iraq etc have lived generations under absolute sanctions .


Russia is an industrial and agricultural giant. Not to mention no shortage of oil and gas or natural resources . 
On top it has very large trade route through China which is wide open.

Good luck sanctions ….. other than fast food and fancy consumers goods Russia will barely feel any pinch at all. 

Look at the country like Iran …. Despite absolute sanctions they are still flying 40 year old Boeing planes…. Russia is 40 years ahead of Iran. 

Not to mention no South American and hardly anyone in the Middle East or SE Asia have imposed sanctions on her.

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## Type59

Meengla said:


> A ceasefire should be coming up within weeks if not days based on Lavrov and Zellenskyy latest comments. Perhaps Zellensky knows that the West will fight Russia to the last Ukrainian and Russia knows that Russia greatly miscalculated. The two nations are kins for the most part. They know each other.
> If Russia manages to block off the sea access for Ukraine and take even a few dozen miles in eastern Ukraine and place Russian weapons targeting Kiev, such a North Korea does to Seoul, and preferably, for Russia, make the Dnieper River as the front line then a big Russian win.
> We need to understand this: Russia maybe a pale shadow of its former power but as long as it is willing to take losses to gain territory and as long as it can use its vast natural resources, Russia will more than survive. And it is possible it may even thrive in short to medium term....



I reckon there will be an agreement for a ceasefire, but both sides will rearm for next war.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Odessa port under blockade

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504103672019513345

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504103724318306304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504103745243676678

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504103780379291648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504103799861829634

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504103818849501191

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504089889259851785



Mariupol was a meat grinder that Azov found themselves trapped, while DNR (Donbas People's Republic) warriors were coming from all angles. They're now calling for "help". Azov Neo Nazis got owned!!

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504089278573334530



OMG - desperate - everything the USA and the west is supplying is defensive or personal systems - nothing strategic.

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## Beny Karachun

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia backed separatists learn how to use NLAW to shoot Ukrainian tanks. Russia reverse engineered NLAW and made thousands of these and supplied to Russia backed separatists.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504100340307738631


Reverse engineered and made thousands within 20 days right lol

Russia won't be able to reverse engineer anything lol


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## Meengla

Flight of falcon said:


> No country no matter how small and poor ever stopped fighting because of sanctions .
> 
> Iran , North Korea , Iraq etc have lived generations under absolute sanctions .
> 
> 
> Russia is an industrial and agricultural giant. Not to mention no shortage of oil and gas or natural resources .
> On top it has very large trade route through China which is wide open.
> 
> Good luck sanctions ….. other than fast food and fancy consumers goods Russia will barely feel any pinch at all.
> 
> Look at the country like Iran …. Despite absolute sanctions they are still flying 40 year old Boeing planes…. Russia is 40 years ahead of Iran.
> 
> Not to mention no South American and hardly anyone in the Middle East or SE Asia have imposed sanctions on her.



If I could say 'absolutely right' I would. 
Russia has so much going for it in short to medium term. Long term, it will be a greatly reduced nation basically to the west of the Urals (and even then minus the Caucaus) but by then I and probably most of this forum will be part of the Cosmic Dust. We will never know.


----------



## Beny Karachun

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Mariupol was a meat grinder that Azov found themselves trapped, while DNR (Donbas People's Republic) warriors were coming from all angles. They're now calling for "help". Azov Neo Nazis got owned!!


Lol the Russians are getting grinded, don't delude yourself



RescueRanger said:


> Sadly the thread is now 1100 pages long but a long of valuable mentioned have been posted.
> 
> Ultimately Russia is too big to fail and you will see the Ruble rise again because well nations are still buying oil and wheat and influence with Russia including Germany at present.
> 
> Interesting to note that Russia is one of the largest supplies of nickel which is in everything from smartphones to smart cars.
> 
> The sanctions are hitting Russia more so now that the assets have been frozen but I will reiterate my earlier statement again Russia is just too big to fail.


Why don't you guys learn from history and understand that the term "too big to fail" isn't a correct term? 

Nickel is found in many places, stop deluding yourself, Russia is a fraction of the world's economy, the impact on the rest of the world will be miniscule when compared to the impact on Russia.

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## bobo6661

Beny Karachun said:


> Lol the Russians are getting grinded, don't delude yourself


It can fall but really it has fallen like 15 days ago according to russians and its falling every day , to be honest im realy suprised they are holding there for so long


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## dBSPL

Polish President Duda is in Ankara. The main agenda is Ukraine and defense relations.

22nd state leader whose visited TR in the last 1 month.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Beny Karachun said:


> Lol the Russians are getting grinded, don't delude yourself



A few hit-and-run attacks or Ukrainian forces hiding within the civilian population are all I see. Russians dominate the air, and their forces are advancing every day. This has been a war between the West and Russia, and from battlefield perspective, Russia is winning.

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## Beny Karachun

bobo6661 said:


> It can fall but really it has fallen like 15 days ago according to russians and its falling every day , to be honest im realy suprised they are holding there for so long


Whatever happens, nothing changes the fact this whole operation proved how bad the Russian military is, and how it has absolutely no chance against NATO conventionally.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> A few hit-and-run attacks or Ukrainian forces hiding within the civilian population are all I see. Russians dominate the air, and their forces are advancing every day. This has been a war between the West and Russia, and from battlefield perspective, Russia is winning.


Dominate? You mean their planes and helicopters dominate their crashing sites

Russia is not winning, it's fighting for an unachievable goal of occupying Ukraine, take Afghanistan and multiply it by 100 and you will have the difficulty the Russians will face against Ukraine

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## Ali_Baba

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russians got hands on more Javelin and NLAW and Panzerfaust 3 for reverse engineering and mass production.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503766146213888003




Given that most of what Russia is currently using is Soviet era junk with Soviet era tactics - i dont think Russia has the ability to make much of "reverse engineering" anything or even fielding anything if they have managed to copy anything .... this special operation by Putin is the last roll of the dice for some time - the Russians will be neutered from now and their ability to replace lost equipment - let alone modernise will become massively compromised.

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## nang2

Beny Karachun said:


> Whatever happens, nothing changes the fact this whole operation proved how bad the Russian military is, and how it has absolutely no chance against NATO conventionally.


Few people really know the ground reality. It is probably a well guarded secret for both sides. However, one way to peek into it is through the ongoing negotiation. Negotiation result usually reflects what is happening on the ground. In another word, what is happening on the ground DECIDES the negotiation result.

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## Wood

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504103672019513345
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504103724318306304
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504103745243676678
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504103780379291648
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504103799861829634
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504103818849501191


In yesterday's thread, he proposed that Russian troops should be encouraged to abandon post by luring them with money and a passage to Argentina

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Beny Karachun said:


> Reverse engineered and made thousands within 20 days right lol
> 
> Russia won't be able to reverse engineer anything lol



Your darling Azov Neo Nazis who were funded by Israel are cornered in Mariupol now. 👇



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504062398608646144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504056691268198407

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

nang2 said:


> Few people really know the ground reality. It is probably a well guarded secret for both sides. However, one way to peek into it is through the ongoing negotiation. Negotiation result usually reflects what is happening on the ground. In another word, what is happening on the ground DECIDES the negotiation result.


Once Putin has Novorossiya he will start talking as I said previously around May-June or even July could become the date in where he will talk..

I expect another major offensive wave around mid April from the russians throwing in another 150.000 forces to blitz the remaining novorossiya. currently he holds 60-70% of Novorossiya he will go for the remaining.

Putin will not release Novorossiya and they have already elected a new mayor in Kherson region


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## Beny Karachun

nang2 said:


> Few people really know the ground reality. It is probably a well guarded secret for both sides. However, one way to peek into it is through the ongoing negotiation. Negotiation result usually reflects what is happening on the ground. In another word, what is happening on the ground DECIDES the negotiation result.


You're wrong lol,open source, photographically confirmed live maps exist, although blocked by the Russians. 

Russia made it illegal to call this a war and is calling it a "special operation", even though it's in the same scale as 1973 war.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Your darling Azov Neo Nazis who were funded by Israel are cornered in Mariupol now. 👇
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504062398608646144
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504056691268198407


Lol do you even hear yourself you schizophrenic retard

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504090164573917187

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504119474848415748


----------



## nang2

Beny Karachun said:


> You're wrong lol,open source, photographically confirmed live maps exist, although blocked by the Russians.


Ground reality is even hard for commanding officers to acquire, let alone armchair strategists through their fancy screens.

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## Wood

Is Kamil reading this PDF thread?!


----------



## Beny Karachun

nang2 said:


> Ground reality is even hard for commanding officers to acquire, let alone armchair strategists through their fancy screens.


You'd be surprised how much armchair strategists with a lot of time and internet access can do


----------



## nang2

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Once Putin has Novorossiya he will start talking as I said previously around May-June or even July could become the date in where he will talk..
> 
> I expect another major offensive wave around mid April from the russians throwing in another 150.000 forces to blitz the remaining novorossiya. currently he holds 60-70% of Novorossiya he will go for the remaining.
> 
> Putin will not release Novorossiya and they have already elected a new mayor in Kherson region


That would be a long dreaded war and probably kills this year's crops.



Beny Karachun said:


> You'd be surprised how much armchair strategists with a lot of time and internet access can do


They only get filtered information and no matter how much time they have, it is still less than what the full-time commanding officers have.


----------



## Beny Karachun

nang2 said:


> That would be a long dreaded war and probably kills this year's crops.
> 
> 
> They only get filtered information and no matter how much time they have, it is still less than what the full-time commanding officers have.


Dude, full time commanding officers don't have civilian footage, civilian intelligence gathering is extremely resourceful, they visually confirmed over a thousand Russian vehicles destroyed and indexed the location and time


----------



## Meengla

nang2 said:


> Few people really know the ground reality. It is probably a well guarded secret for both sides. However, one way to peek into it is through the ongoing negotiation. Negotiation result usually reflects what is happening on the ground. In another word, what is happening on the ground DECIDES the negotiation result.



Yes.
What happens on the ground can't be reversed by ten billion of Tweets or You Tube posts. We don't know what's happening on the ground as far as the larger achievements are. But barely 6-7 months ago we saw how the 'experts' were proved wrong in Afghanistan, despite so much media noise. In case of Ukrain, and again, we do know that one side is totally winning the internet war. But that may amount to nothing when a swathe of eastern Ukraine, with significant Russian ethnic presence, decides to let Russian soldiers around them unharmed and Kiev becomes another Seoul surrounded by Russian big guns and Ukraine's sea access is blocked...

We may be discounting support for Russia in Ukraine. We forget that less than 10 years ago Ukraine had a relatively pro Russia leadership. That was not out of thin air. There must have been and probably could be again significant Russia support in Ukraine. *What's ten years in the life of a nation??* Didn't the mighty French superpower actively and significantly collaborated with the Nazis after the Fall of Paris??? *We forget how pliant people are!!! *


----------



## Apollon

Maira La said:


> Let's not kid ourselves with unsubstantiated propaganda, Russia has complete upper hand militarily. The only thing that stops them from going all out is not Ukrainian resistance, it's the prospect of mass civilian casualties that deters the Russian war machine.



No it has not. Russia is a 3rd world country and never cared for civilians, not even their own. They simply did not expect resitance and the enormous amount of manpads and fire&forget weapons destroys their outdated old trash. 

When has USA lost 5 generals in battle within 3 weeks?

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

nang2 said:


> That would be a long dreaded war and probably kills this year's crops.



Yes. Exactly Russia wants to take the customers themselves as they will become the sole supplier. Russia believes it can capture the remaining 30-40% of Novorossiya around summer.. 

Using Kyiv as hostage for only negotiations to get the Ukrainians to recognize Novorossiya. They want to create a new country ''Novorossiya''


----------



## Apollon

Flight of falcon said:


> No country no matter how small and poor ever stopped fighting because of sanctions .
> 
> Iran , North Korea , Iraq etc have lived generations under absolute sanctions .
> 
> 
> Russia is an industrial and agricultural giant. Not to mention no shortage of oil and gas or natural resources .
> On top it has very large trade route through China which is wide open.
> 
> Good luck sanctions ….. other than fast food and fancy consumers goods Russia will barely feel any pinch at all.
> 
> Look at the country like Iran …. Despite absolute sanctions they are still flying 40 year old Boeing planes…. Russia is 40 years ahead of Iran.
> 
> Not to mention no South American and hardly anyone in the Middle East or SE Asia have imposed sanctions on her.



Russia is not an Industrial giant. It produces nothing and lives completly from oil, gas and ore.

Also you appear to not understand this special economic operation. Its not sanctions. We simply dont want to trade with an enemy state.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504112920094990342

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## SIPRA

Meengla said:


> Yes.
> What happens on the ground can't be reversed by ten billion of Tweets or You Tube posts. We don't know what's happening on the ground as far as the larger achievements are. But barely 6-7 months ago we saw how the 'experts' were proved wrong in Afghanistan, despite so much media noise. In case of Ukrain, and again, we do know that one side is totally winning the internet war. But that may amount to nothing when a swathe of eastern Ukraine, with significant Russian ethnic presence, decides to let Russian soldiers around them unharmed and Kiev becomes another Seoul surrounded by Russian big guns and Ukraine's sea access is blocked...
> 
> We may be discounting support for Russia in Ukraine. We forget that less than 10 years ago Ukraine had a relatively pro Russia leadership. That was not out of thin air. There must have been and probably could be again significant Russia support in Ukraine. *What's ten years in the life of a nation??* Didn't the mighty French superpower actively and significantly collaborated with the Nazis after the Fall of Paris??? *We forget how pliant people are!!! *



It seems that Zelensky's comprehension is improving with time. That is the only hope, for resolution of this dispute.

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## nang2

Beny Karachun said:


> Dude, full time commanding officers don't have civilian footage, civilian intelligence gathering is extremely resourceful, they visually confirmed over a thousand Russian vehicles destroyed and indexed the location and time


Well, based on my own experience in Chinese military (cannot speak for others apparently), military intelligence gathering is magnitude better than civilian one in all areas, such as the equipments, access privilege, manpower, and technical know-hows.


----------



## Beny Karachun

Meengla said:


> Yes.
> What happens on the ground can't be reversed by ten billion of Tweets or You Tube posts. We don't know what's happening on the ground as far as the larger achievements are. But barely 6-7 months ago we saw how the 'experts' were proved wrong in Afghanistan, despite so much media noise. In case of Ukrain, and again, we do know that one side is totally winning the internet war. But that may amount to nothing when a swathe of eastern Ukraine, with significant Russian ethnic presence, decides to let Russian soldiers around them unharmed and Kiev becomes another Seoul surrounded by Russian big guns and Ukraine's sea access is blocked...
> 
> We may be discounting support for Russia in Ukraine. We forget that less than 10 years ago Ukraine had a relatively pro Russia leadership. That was not out of thin air. There must have been and probably could be again significant Russia support in Ukraine. *What's ten years in the life of a nation??* Didn't the mighty French superpower actively and significantly collaborated with the Nazis after the Fall of Paris??? *We forget how pliant people are!!! *


Lol dude you don't know shit. 

The "experts" said Kyiv would be taken over within 2 days, couldn't be farther than the truth. 

I always viewed Russia as a paper tiger, turned out I was right. 

The leadership in Ukraine was Putins doll leadership, turned out he stole tens of billions of dollars and he was kicked out. Putin stole Crimea and now no one will ever love Russia there.


----------



## nang2

Apollon said:


> Russia is not an Industrial giant. It produces nothing and lives completly from oil, gas and ore.
> 
> Also you appear to not understand this special economic operation. Its not sanctions. We simply dont want to trade with an enemy state.


Don't forget wheat. They are the largest wheat exporter.

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## Beny Karachun

nang2 said:


> Well, based on my own experience in Chinese military (cannot speak for others apparently), military intelligence gathering is magnitude better than civilian one in all areas, such as the equipments, access privilege, manpower, and technical know-hows.


That's the case in China due to censored out media, not in the west. 

Obviously the military has more resources, but civilian intelligence gathering can easily show how the war is playing out.



nang2 said:


> Don't forget wheat. They are the largest wheat exporter.


The west could replace it within a few months.


----------



## Apollon

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Once Putin has Novorossiya he will start talking as I said previously around May-June or even July could become the date in where he will talk..
> 
> I expect another major offensive wave around mid April from the russians throwing in another 150.000 forces to blitz the remaining novorossiya. currently he holds 60-70% of Novorossiya he will go for the remaining.
> 
> Putin will not release Novorossiya and they have already elected a new mayor in Kherson region



They lost Kherson this morning according news. Even evacuated the airport

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## F-22Raptor

Exclusive: Secret CIA training program in Ukraine helped Kyiv prepare for Russian invasion


As the battle lines hardened in the Donbas following Russia's annexation of Crimea in 2014, a small, select group of veteran CIA paramilitaries made their first secret trips to the frontlines to meet with Ukrainian counterparts there, according to former U.S. officials.




news.yahoo.com






The CIA has been training Ukrainian forces in the East for years.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504071291430707206

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Apollon said:


> They *lost Kherson *this morning according news. Even evacuated the airport



Excuse me? Man this is some strong drugs you are on?







The Ukrainian army is stretched thin across the country and most of them are besieged inside few cities they don't have the resources to launch such a major counter offensive to reclaim Kherson which is a huge region itself... Were you thinking that the Avengers landed here over night to expel the russians from Kherson

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## Beny Karachun

nang2 said:


> You and many other armchair strategists get pumped by the recent civilian technology improvement. You would never imagine the improvement that also happened in the military.


You know you aren't the only one that served in the military, I know military has more resources, it isn't my point, my point is civilian intelligence gathering can easily show where the fighting is happening and who is winning.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504125802694287360
El o el

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504125802694287360
> El o el



"Operation is going according to the plans". Everytime I see videos like this and remember this sentence,I can't keep myself from laughing.

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## Apollon

Whats cooking?


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## Primus

Beny Karachun said:


> Lol dude you don't know shit.


Neither do you.

Now stop derailing this thread

@LeGenD

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## nang2

Beny Karachun said:


> You know you aren't the only one that served in the military, I know military has more resources, it isn't my point, my point is civilian intelligence gathering can easily show where the fighting is happening and who is winning.


If it were that easy, military intelligence officers would have lost their jobs already.

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## Apollon

Another russian helicopter down 






All that russian trash causes alot of problems to farmers who have to remove the wrecks from their fields


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504125956570730499

Russia is committing mass war crimes against the Ukrainian people

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## nang2

Apollon said:


> Another russian helicopter down
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that russian trash causes alot of problems to farmers who have to remove the wrecks from their fields


Wrecks are easy to remove. They have tractors. The spill of fuel or other nasty liquid is a royal pain and certainly bad for crops.


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504126758630612997

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## nang2

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504126758630612997


That is one TINY hydro plant.


----------



## Meengla

Beny Karachun said:


> Lol dude you don't know shit.
> The "experts" said Kyiv would be taken over within 2 days, couldn't be farther than the truth.
> I always viewed Russia as a paper tiger, turned out I was right.
> The leadership in Ukraine was Putins doll leadership, turned out he stole tens of billions of dollars and he was kicked out. Putin stole Crimea and now no one will ever love Russia there.



Of course I don't want to 'know $shit' . Hahahah!
Of course the 'experts' are proved wrong --but I can also point you to NY Times front page articles from authoritative sources before the war began where there was American prediction that Ukraine would be more or less a cakewalk. All experts proved wrong just like they did around August 2021 about the events in Afghanistan. 

And that supports my point: A real war is fought on the ground and the gains are held on the ground. A billion tweets or You Tube videos won't make up for 'facts on the ground'. You Israeli squatters in the Palestine know well what 'facts on the ground' are!
And, yes, if barely ten years ago there was a relatively pro-Russian leadership in charge of Ukraine then it is plausible that at least in the eastern regions of Ukraine such leadership is possible, if not likely.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504126097646133251


----------



## Apollon

nang2 said:


> Wrecks are easy to remove. They have tractors. The spill of fuel or other nasty liquid is a royal pain and certainly bad for crops.



I think the explosives can also be dangerous. Also wonder what happens with the bodies of the invaders. Guess there is not much left after that crash though


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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Hard to disagree with this and especially in regards to sanction threat etc etc and theft

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504108921987940366

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504126343847493636

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## nang2

Meengla said:


> Of course I don't want to 'know $shit' . Hahahah!
> Of course the 'experts' are proved wrong --but I can also point you to NY Times front page articles from authoritative sources before the war began where there was American prediction that Ukraine would be more or less a cakewalk. All experts proved wrong just like they did around August 2021 about the events in Afghanistan.
> 
> And that supports my point: A real war is fought on the ground and the gains are held on the ground. A billion tweets or You Tube videos won't make up for 'facts on the ground'. You Israeli squatters in the Palestine know well what 'facts on the ground' are!
> And, yes, if barely ten years ago there was a relatively pro-Russian leadership in charge of Ukraine then it is plausible that at least in the eastern regions of Ukraine such leadership is possible, if not likely.


'Experts' live on making some often-soon-forgotten points that others can sell. If they were really held accountable for their words, they won't be able to make a living in this way. They probably would rather to be a computer programmer. Life doesn't have to be so hard, does it?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504102919129513993

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## Beny Karachun

nang2 said:


> If it were that easy, military intelligence officers would have lost their jobs already.


Militarily intelligence officers do much more than determine where battles happen and who is winning them, something civilians can do.


----------



## nang2

Beny Karachun said:


> Militarily intelligence officers do much more than determine where battles happen and who is winning them, something civilians can do.


You should get paid then.  Probably save a lot of taxpayer money.

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## Wood

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Hard to disagree with this and especially in regards to sanction threat etc etc and theft
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504108921987940366


Translation: "I'm not a genius like my fanboys claim that I am"

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## nang2

Wood said:


> Translation: "I'm not a genius like my fanboys claim that I am"


Well, give him some credit. He is the first one that tests the water. Now, everyone knows what that water is alike. In a common socialist term, he sacrifices himself for the GREATER good.

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## Beny Karachun

nang2 said:


> 'Experts' live on making some often-soon-forgotten points that others can sell. If they were really held accountable for their words, they won't be able to make a living in this way. They probably would rather to be a computer programmer. Life doesn't have to be so hard, does it?


Funny enough I'm currently a computer science student so...


----------



## nang2

Beny Karachun said:


> Funny enough I'm currently a computer science student so...


It means you probably do better than those 'experts'.


----------



## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504126343847493636



It would be interesting to see how Starstreak performs in the wild against Russian assets!

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## nang2

Flight of falcon said:


> Imagine West sending these sophisticated SAMs and they ending up in the wrong hands …. Who will be responsible?
> 
> Ukrainians have been dropping their Javelines and running away as if they are too hot to handle.
> 
> Wait until these start showing up in the middles East …


Nothing. As long as someone is killed, they can pin it on Russia. All is good. Don't worry.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504133829921062914
True evil being perpetuated by the Russians.

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## jhungary

Meengla said:


> And, yes, if barely ten years ago there was a relatively pro-Russian leadership in charge of Ukraine then it is plausible that at least in the eastern regions of Ukraine such leadership is possible, if not likely.



Actually, the last "Pro-Russian" president that was majority elected is in 1999.

First of all, Viktor Yanukovych did *NOT* have the majority in 2010 election (He got 48% of the vote), the reason why he "Was" the president is because he had entered into a power-sharing agreement with opposition Yulia Tymoshenko. This is because unlike United States, you need "Majority" of parliament to form a government in Ukraine, you don't need majority to form a government in the US. It's also a common misconception that Maidan was used to "Overthrown" a legitimate Ukrainian government because 1.) Yanukovych is a minority, and 2.) Tymoshenko party pulled the power sharing deal before Maidan and which trigger a election, yes, technically Yanukovych was still the President when Maidan happened, but Parliament had ALREADY Dissolved, which mean Yanukovych government is no longer valid.

Secondly Viktor Yanukovych lost to Viktor Yushchenko in 2004 election. And Viktor Yushchenko was not at all pro-Russian. Seeing that FSB try to assassinate him 3 weeks into his presidence. He is quite Pro-EU, that is also the time when Ukraine lodge their first NATO membership (in 2008) and he is in power mostly because of the orange revolution (Which is a Pro-EU movement)

It is also widely believed that Yushchenko having an infighting with Tymoshenko, that's why they lost the 2010 election to Yanukovych, only that Yanukovych himself did not get enough vote to secure a majority government.

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## Apollon

nang2 said:


> Well, give him some credit. He is the first one that tests the water. Now, everyone knows what that water is alike. In a common socialist term, he sacrifices himself for the GREATER good.



He is like the goat in Jurassic Park

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> Actually, the last "Pro-Russian" president that was majority elected is in 1999.
> 
> First of all, Viktor Yanukovych did *NOT* have the majority in 2010 election (He got 48% of the vote), the reason why he "Was" the president is because he had entered into a power-sharing agreement with opposition Yulia Tymoshenko. This is because unlike United States, you need "Majority" of parliament to form a government in Ukraine, you don't need majority to form a government in the US. It's also a common misconception that Maidan was used to "Overthrown" a legitimate Ukrainian government because 1.) Yanukovych is a minority, and 2.) Tymoshenko party pulled the power sharing deal before Maidan and which trigger a election, yes, technically Yanukovych was still the President when Maidan happened, but Parliament had ALREADY Dissolved, which mean Yanukovych government is no longer valid.
> 
> Secondly Viktor Yanukovych lost to Viktor Yushchenko in 2004 election. And Viktor Yushchenko was not at all pro-Russian. Seeing that FSB try to assassinate him 3 weeks into his presidence. He is quite Pro-EU, that is also the time when Ukraine lodge their first NATO membership (in 2008) and he is in power mostly because of the orange revolution (Which is a Pro-EU movement)


I am having a hard time tracking so many Viktors.



Apollon said:


> He is like the goat in Jurassic Park


Have some sympathy.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504124755376549897

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## Flight of falcon

Beny Karachun said:


> Israel never tried to conquer Gaza, the ground invasion was meant to detect and destroy all the tunnels going into Israel, this took 17 days. The conflict resulted in 67 Israeli soldiers dead and 900 Hamas terrorists dead.
> 
> Clear objective, ground forces withdrew once it was achieved, minimal casualties on Israeli side and a technological capability of preventing Hamas tunnels (And Hezbollah tunnels as well) from penetrating into Israel was achieved.
> 
> 1000 times more professional than the cluster **** that Russia is doing.
> 
> Also, your BS about concentration camps and Russia caring about civilians is hilarious




Let me refresh your memory .

Looks like you don’t consider Gaza as a concentration camp comparable or worse than Polish ghettos but they are. People are starved and denied even basic necessities of life and forced to drink sewer water. Reminds me very much of innocent Jewish victims of WW2. 

Operation protective edge started in July8 and finished august 26. That’s 50 days. 

Israel achieved shit. How come all the tunnels were back last year and you guys couldn’t even stop huge rocket barrages until the last day of ceasefire ???
You guys only specialize in long distance killing paid for by our tax dollars in the USA. Your diaper wearing soldiers never come face to face . 

Russians have not bombed Kiev and I personally don’t believe that they need to. Unlike the entire USA and western media cheerleaders that support Israeli genocide against Palestianians , Russians are facing internet army which makes every rocket explosion look like a nuclear attack.

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504102919129513993











S-300 missile system - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Bulgaria
Greece 
Slovakia 

are possible providers if the S300 is going to be provided.

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## bobo6661

Ali_Baba said:


> Bulgaria
> Greece
> Slovakia
> 
> are possible providers if the S300 is going to be provided.


Hope they got a better deal then we ddid with migs


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## nang2

bobo6661 said:


> Hope they got a better deal then we ddid with migs


What was wrong with migs? If they couldn't fly them in, couldn't they use tow trucks?


----------



## jhungary

nang2 said:


> I am having a hard time tracking so many Viktors.
> 
> 
> Have some sympathy.


That's why I usually use Surname when I talk about Ukrainian Politics. Viktor is as common as Joe


----------



## Beny Karachun

Flight of falcon said:


> Let me refresh your memory .
> 
> Looks like you don’t consider Gaza as a concentration camp comparable or worse than Polish ghettos but they are. People are starved and denied even basic necessities of life and forced to drink sewer water. Reminds me very much of innocent Jewish victims of WW2.
> 
> Operation protective edge started in July8 and finished august 26. That’s 50 days.
> 
> Israel achieved shit. How come all the tunnels were back last year and you guys couldn’t even stop huge rocket barrages until the last day of ceasefire ???
> You guys only specialize in long distance killing paid for by our tax dollars in the USA. Your diaper wearing soldiers never come face to face .
> 
> Russians have not bombed Kiev and I personally don’t believe that they need to. Unlike the entire USA and western media cheerleaders that support Israeli genocide against Palestianians , Russians are facing internet army which makes every rocket explosion look like a nuclear attack.


If Gaza was a concentration camp it wouldn't have any population by now. 

Ground invasion started at 16th of July and ended at 3rd of August. 

There were 0 tunnels penetrating into Israel, the tunnels we destroyed were tunnels inside Gaza, it was an operation, we let them think they invade, they entered their tunnels like moles to ambush us and we bombed their tunnels with 150 jet fighters simultaneously within 30 minutes. 
Probably the most impressive thing I've ever seen. Buried them all under ground. 

The amount of dead in those tunnels is greater than reported as well, I cannot tell you much about it. 

"couldn't stop rockets" lol say that to the Iron Dome, wait until the Iron Beam comes out. 

Russia is bombing literally everything, wiping out cities the size of Gaza off the map

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The Russian army is capturing these huge weapons, many of which were donated by the Western governments Including Javelins and man-portable SAMS. It seems the Ukrainian army is on the verge of a complete defeat in Eastern and Southern Ukraine.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504134302459699210

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504127999234523141

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Iron Shrappenel

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504102529281544200


Why the tyre looks so funny


----------



## nang2

jhungary said:


> That's why I usually use Surname when I talk about Ukrainian Politics. Viktor is as common as Joe


Their surnames are long, too. Don't they know human beings can only hold 7 digits in the brain at the same time?


----------



## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The Russian army is capturing these huge weapons, many of which were donated by the Western government Including Javelins and man-portable SAMS. It seems the Ukrainian army is on the verge of a complete defeat in Eastern and Southern Ukraine.


you posted this like 3 times already

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504139039116562434
Hundreds may be murdered

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## Iron Shrappenel

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia backed separatists learn how to use NLAW to shoot Ukrainian tanks. Russia reverse engineered NLAW and made thousands of these and supplied to Russia backed separatists.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504100340307738631


This war seems to be a constant armament and disarmament fiasco

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## ProudPak

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The Russian army is capturing these huge weapons, many of which were donated by the Western governments Including Javelins and man-portable SAMS. It seems the Ukrainian army is on the verge of a complete defeat in Eastern and Southern Ukraine.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504134302459699210
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504127999234523141


Pakistan needs hands on these for reverse engineering and study


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504120775749550081

Reactions: Love Love:
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## gambit

JX-1 said:


> That's how it is and always has been. It's just that with the global nature of today's economy, money, sanctions, propaganda and proxies are first used to apply pressure and if all else fails, a military intervention.
> 
> Afghanistan didn't comply with US, it got invaded. Libya complied and gave up nukes, look what Gaddafi got in return. Ukraine gave up nukes and didn't comply with Russia, it got invaded. India acts against China, they are beaten so badly that they are afraid to even utter China's name officially. All South Asian countries including Bangladesh with its strong economy are essentially Indian puppet states, except Pakistan because of its strong military.


I understand the reality and the geopolitics. But the greater danger is that...

If we allow the legitimization of the John Mearsheimer school of great power geopolitics, great powers *WILL NOT* need any other justifications, no matter how specious, to intimidate, threaten, and even invade neighbors based solely upon the vague 'national security' reason. Take a look at why Russia invaded Ukraine:

Resurgence of neo Nazism,​Ethnic abuse of Russians,​Possible NATO membership,​Potential nuclear weapons hosting from NATO,​That Ukraine is not a 'real' country.​
Those are the five *PRIMARY* reasons. Each of them is already weak on its own. Who knows if there are secondary reasons. The ulterior motive of resurrecting the former Soviet bloc, if not in name, is not listed, but we all believe that is the real reason because we believe the primary reasons are weak.

If we examine every invasion in history, we will find reasons, some *ARE* legitimate such as D-Day or when ECOWAS invaded to intervene in civil wars to prevent further regional disorder and humanitarian crisis, some are not legitimate like how Kuwait was 'stealing' Iraqi oil via the lateral drilling method and that Kuwait was an actual Iraqi province of old. Speaking as a cynic, at least there were/are attempts of facade of legitimate reasons or covers to do something immoral. But if we accept the Mearsheimer path as _prima facie_ reason, great powers will not even try to find covers and smaller states will suffer for it.

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## nang2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504120775749550081


Moral support, folks, moral support.

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## F-22Raptor

nang2 said:


> Moral support, folks, moral support.




It further casts Russia as a pariah state. This invasion has royally screwed Russia for generations to come.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504136986810011656

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## bobo6661

Ah the brave russian soldiers ...

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tff5jo


----------



## Beny Karachun

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The Russian army is capturing these huge weapons, many of which were donated by the Western governments Including Javelins and man-portable SAMS. It seems the Ukrainian army is on the verge of a complete defeat in Eastern and Southern Ukraine.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504134302459699210
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504127999234523141


Cope harder Ukrainian military captured a ton of Pantsir S1s, TOR, Buk, command vehicles, electronic warfare vehicles and entire tank brigades worth of tanks already


----------



## Genghis khan1

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Hard to disagree with this and especially in regards to sanction threat etc etc and theft
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504108921987940366


Did he just woke up. West behave like Khadim H Rizvi. Pay loan on your own term or Ghori aya J.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504142366998945793

Wow

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## Amliunion

The "Theater" in Lviv was reported as a training center for "fighters" - reported by AFP


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501064953352327168

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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504142366998945793
> 
> Wow



To be clear, this is NEW weapons set to enter Ukraine


----------



## Amliunion

This been hit by Russia. Hope this madness ends soon: 😞


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504082515841196038


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504142139101483025

Looks like those Switchblades are coming too

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## Viet

Putin runs out of money. Investors prepare the country going bankrupt. Russia bonds are worth 20 cent per dollar.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504144016320909320

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## Genghis khan1

bobo6661 said:


> Ah the brave russian soldiers ...
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tff5jo


Same edited video is circulating on this tread before stating Russia drop missile or something. 

Too much fake new/videos are out there.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504145180647170060
Here come the Greeks

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## bobo6661

Genghis khan1 said:


> Same edited video is circulating on this tread before stating Russia drop missile or something.
> 
> Too much fake new/videos are out there.


I seen this first time and i dont remember anything like this here


----------



## Wood

The psychological effect of American $$ flooding into this Russo-Ukrainian conflict cannot be understated. While the Ukrainians are surely licking their lips to get some effective weapons, the Russians will be haunted by what they've read from their history books. Russians have already lost most people in this 3 week conflict than the Americans lost in entire Afghan/Iraq campaign. With all the new hardware coming into Ukrainian hands, Russia may loose more people than the erstwhile Soviet lost in Afghanistan before the end of this month

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504142139101483025
> 
> Looks like those Switchblades are coming too



Meh. Lancet is way scarier than Switchblade.


----------



## Apollon



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## F-22Raptor

Wood said:


> The psychological effect of American $$ flooding into this Russo-Ukrainian conflict cannot be understated. While the Ukrainians are surely licking their lips to get some effective weapons, the Russians will be haunted by what they've read from their history books. Russians have already lost most people in this 3 week conflict than the Americans lost in entire Afghan/Iraq campaign. With all the new hardware coming into Ukrainian hands, Russia may loose more people than the erstwhile Soviet lost in Afghanistan before the end of this month



A lot of Russians are going to die. The Ukrainians are getting a crap ton of anti armor weapons.

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> A lot of Russians are going to die. The Ukrainians are getting a crap ton of anti armor weapons.


US should pay Russian soldiers a hundred bucks in cash and offer a flight ticket to South America. I'm sure many would take it over what is coming

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## Apollon

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504145180647170060
> Here come the Greeks



Im proud for this.

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## srshkmr

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504142366998945793
> 
> Wow


20 Million rounds that’s a lot , considering there will be future shipments. 

Looks like most western countries are transferring weapons from cold storage to Ukraine instead of decommissioning them in the coming years

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## Apollon

Wood said:


> US should pay Russian soldiers a hundred bucks in cash and offer a flight ticket to South America. I'm sure many would take it over what is coming




EU actually plans to offer russian soldiers who leave their post asylum

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> A lot of Russians are going to die. The Ukrainians are getting a crap ton of anti armor weapons.



What does not kill you makes you stronger. Russia is getting a lot of real world combat experience. America is not.

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## Apollon

Tai Hai Chen said:


> What does not kill you makes you stronger. Russia is getting a lot of real world combat experience. America is not.



What value has combat experience when you get a humilating defeat, your economy smashed to pieces and your world renomee shattered?

What combat experience did russia gain when Jalan wiped the floor with them.

What people dont understand is a far bigger thing than Ukraine. Russia got cut off in evry aspect from Europe. Even in coldest cold war days were trade connections. Now evrything is wiped out, Russia basicly doesnt exist as a eueopean nation anymore and one can bet that Putin did not expect this. And there is nothing he can do about it either. He is burned and seen as liar and war criminal. He knows very well he will never sign any papers with Europe and that sanctions remain as long his regime stays in power no matter the outcome of Ukraine.

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## Beny Karachun

Tai Hai Chen said:


> What does not kill you makes you stronger. Russia is getting a lot of real world combat experience. America is not.


Combat experience is beneficial when you don't get blown up by missiles you don't even see

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## Primus

Beny Karachun said:


> Cope harder lol
> 
> Israel bombed whatever needs to be bombed and did it well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Newsroom UNRWA
> 
> 
> The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) is a relief and human development agency. UNRWA is funded almost entirely by voluntary contributions from UN Member States.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.unrwa.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas bars UN inspectors from examining tunnel under school in Gaza
> 
> 
> Hamas has forestalled UN bomb removal specialists from reviewing a Palestinian outcast office school in the Gaza Strip under which
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedailyreports.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Hamas bars UN inspectors from examining tunnel under school in Gaza"​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Brief: Hamas terrorist tunnel found under UN-run school in Gaza
> 
> 
> The UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) has condemned the construction of a terror tunnel under a school complex it operates in the central Gaza Stri
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.lfi.org.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FDD | Hold Hamas Accountable for Human-Shields Use During the May 2021 Gaza War
> 
> 
> Analysis, Memos | June 23, 2021 |
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.fdd.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza's tunnel system collapsed.
> 
> 
> Dude you're pathetic, anyways, you guys are a bunch of losers
> 
> No lol, Russian drones are trash, poor optics, crude technology. Switchblade is a million times smarter.


Oh my God, can you please, please, PLEASE shut the **** up and stop derailing this thread. 

F22 raptor is bad enough with his spam, you are even worse. You contribute absolutely nothing here. At least f22 is on topic.

@LeGenD can you thread ban this moron already?

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## Amliunion

This is been reported on 13th March and today bombing took place at the Theater:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502876117098987527

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> What value has combat experience when you get a humilating defeat, your economy smashed to pieces and your world renomee shattered?
> 
> What combat experience did russia gain when Jalan wiped the floor with them.
> 
> What people dont understand is a far bigger thing than Ukraine. Russia got cut off in evry aspect from Europe. Even in coldest cold war days were trade connections. Now evrything is wiped out, Russia basicly doesnt exist as a eueopean nation anymore and one can bet that Putin did not expect this. And there is nothing he can do about it either. He is burned and seen as liar and war criminal. He knows very well he will never sign any papers with Europe and that sanctions remain as long his regime stays in power no matter the outcome of Ukraine.



Russia fought WW2 for years and was fine. This war is nothing compared to WW2.


----------



## Apollon

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia fought WW2 for years and was fine. This war is nothing compared to WW2.



Russia is nazi germany now.



Amliunion said:


> This is been reported on 13th March and today bombing took place at the Theater:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502876117098987527



Always amazed there are still gullible people who fall for russian propaganda

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## oberschlesier

Apollon said:


> EU actually plans to offer russian soldiers who leave their post asylum


Yes! Bribe them and offer asylum!


----------



## EvoluXon

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Hard to disagree with this and especially in regards to sanction threat etc etc and theft





Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Hard to disagree with this and especially in regards to sanction threat etc etc and theft
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504108921987940366


Sometime putin reminds me of morning newscaster .. :p ...


----------



## dBSPL

Russia and Ukraine have made progress in the 15-point interim peace plan, which includes the withdrawal of Russia.

Ukraine will abandon its bids to join NATO. It will limit Ukraine's military power in exchange for the protection by its allies such as the US, UK and Turkey.

—FinancialTimes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504120440310190086

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## monitor

im Sciutto
@jimsciutto
·
5h
New: US & NATO allies are sending several surface-to-air missiles systems to Ukraine. A senior US official tells me these systems include Soviet-era SA-8, SA-10, SA-12 and SA-14 mobile air defense systems, w/range higher than Stingers, giving capability to hit cruise missiles.


----------



## Amliunion

Apollon said:


> Russia is nazi germany now.
> 
> 
> 
> Always amazed there are still gullible people who fall for russian propaganda



This feeling is Mutual. 'The Ghost of Kivy, Snake Island, Sinking Russian Ship et al.,' makes one not to fall for Western Media and US information Warfare.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504152872266645512

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## Titanium100

dBSPL said:


> Russia and Ukraine have made progress in the 15-point interim peace plan, which includes the withdrawal of Russia.
> 
> Ukraine will abandon its bids to join NATO. It will limit Ukraine's military power in exchange for the protection by its allies such as the US, UK and Turkey.
> 
> —FinancialTimes
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504120440310190086



This is Turkey's 5th guraantor job.. in only 2 years time

Libya
Nogorno-Karabakh
Syria
Iraq

and

now Ukraine


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504152180835733510

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## RescueRanger

The next person to derail this thread with Palestine or other conflicts is getting a negative rating. Please use this thread to discuss the Ukraine/Russia conflict and leave other conflicts to other threads.

Much obliged.

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## dBSPL

Titanium100 said:


> This is Turkey's 5th guraantor job.. in only 2 years time
> 
> Libya
> Nogorno-Karabakh
> Syria
> Iraq
> 
> and
> 
> now Ukraine


Çavuşoğlu and Lavrov are registered as 'joint patrols' in each other's phone books.


----------



## kingQamaR

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia fought WW2 for years and was fine. This war is nothing compared to WW2.



It was U.K. USA convoys of supplies tanks and planes were sent to Russia that they were able to survive and win, there many Russians armies were decimated by Germany in early years of the war.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504142288783556610
President Erdogan:

Today, we hosted our strategic partner and ally Poland's president, my dear friend Andrzej Duda, in Ankara. This visit is a concrete indication of our will to develop Turkey-Poland relations in every field.
(...)

We are pleased with the development of our relations in the field of defense industry.
(...)

We cooperate closely with Poland on regional issues and on multilateral platforms. Poland takes an exemplary stance by opening its doors to nearly 2 million refugees fleeing the war. It shows admirable support for the delivery of our humanitarian aid to Ukraine.

I congratulate the Polish authorities for their approach beyond all appreciation. As the country hosting the largest number of refugees in the world for 8 years, Turkey best understands the challenges faced by Poland. We are conducting intense shuttle diplomacy to end the war. In this process, we will continue our consultation and cooperation with Poland.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504160654583746561

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504156329862217735



At the end there's a body flying,seems another vehicle was hit...

At some point there's a soldier apparently waving a white rag,but the tank keeps getting hit.

@F-22Raptor

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## Flight of falcon

Apollon said:


> View attachment 824685



How long before one of these shells explode?


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504153642294824972

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## dBSPL

Erdogan had a telephone conversation with President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenskiy. During the meeting, the latest developments in the Ukraine-Russia war were discussed. Erdogan continues his efforts to bring together Ukrainian President Zelensky and Russian President Vladimir Putin.

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## Flight of falcon

Vergennes said:


> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504156329862217735
> 
> 
> 
> At the end there's a body flying,seems another vehicle was hit...
> 
> At some point there's a soldier apparently waving a white rag,but the tank keeps getting hit.
> 
> @F-22Raptor




F

I counted five antitank hits/misses........Thats a horrible kill ratio. Obviously untrained fighters.


----------



## dBSPL

A large arsenal belonging to the Ukrainian Army was captured in the Kherson region, now under the control of the Russian army. It has been announced that the equipment in the arsenal will be given to the DPR Forces.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504155772506230786


----------



## Amliunion

Mercenaries meeting their fate:



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504164129417965573


----------



## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504156329862217735
> 
> 
> 
> At the end there's a body flying,seems another vehicle was hit...
> 
> At some point there's a soldier apparently waving a white rag,but the tank keeps getting hit.
> 
> @F-22Raptor




Brutal way to die. The Russian soldiers who actually want to live should surrender to Ukrainian forces now, before thousands more anti armor missiles, and Switchblades enter combat.

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> Brutal way to die. The Russian soldiers who actually want to live should surrender to Ukrainian forces now, before thousands more anti armor missiles, and Switchblades enter combat.



This video also shows total Russian army incompetence,sending tanks alone in an urban and hostile area without any infantry support,reminds me of footages from Syria.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504167173895426055

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504096172146798596

Vladimir Vladimirovich Kara-Murza is a Russian opposition politician and Boris Nemtsov’s protégé.

EDIT: This guy is also a survivor of 2 poisoning attempts by Kremlin. But he has managed to survive.

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> This video also shows total Russian army incompetence,sending tanks alone in an urban and hostile area without any infantry support,reminds me of footages from Syria.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504167173895426055




I feel bad for Russian soldiers and their families. Their getting slaughtered for nothing. War is terrible. Putin and co should be hanged.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504172585868746753The Ukrainian army hit the area where the Russian army's command post and supply post near Kyiv were located, with artillery fire. The Russian army suffered heavy losses.

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## RescueRanger

Huffal said:


> Oh my God, can you please, please, PLEASE shut the **** up and stop derailing this thread.
> 
> F22 raptor is bad enough with his spam, you are even worse. You contribute absolutely nothing here. At least f22 is on topic.
> 
> @LeGenD can you thread ban this moron already?


His posts have been reported. Please use the report feature as well as tagging a mod for a faster response. He has abused a fellow poster and for that I have given him a negative rating too.

@Flight of falcon your posts about Palestine and argumentative posts added no value and have been reported too.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504170058263769093

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504172014453542912

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## dBSPL

Biden to Putin
- Welcome to club bro...

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504172431547764739

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> Biden to Putin
> - Welcome to club bro...
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504172431547764739


This!


----------



## Flight of falcon

Three British SAS agents dead:











Russian agents ‘infiltrated’ Ukrainian base where three British special forces veterans feared dead


Ukraine intelligence agencies said to be investigating claims Kremlin spy sent key information to Moscow from inside base




ca.yahoo.com

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504172600523726850

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504091172196823042

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## Vergennes

damn..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504176263623319559

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> damn..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504176263623319559



Well, that driver is dead, and probably some in the back.


----------



## Avicenna

gambit said:


> I understand the reality and the geopolitics. But the greater danger is that...
> 
> If we allow the legitimization of the John Mearsheimer school of great power geopolitics, great powers *WILL NOT* need any other justifications, no matter how specious, to intimidate, threaten, and even invade neighbors based solely upon the vague 'national security' reason. Take a look at why Russia invaded Ukraine:
> 
> Resurgence of neo Nazism,​Ethnic abuse of Russians,​Possible NATO membership,​Potential nuclear weapons hosting from NATO,​That Ukraine is not a 'real' country.​
> Those are the five *PRIMARY* reasons. Each of them is already weak on its own. Who knows if there are secondary reasons. The ulterior motive of resurrecting the former Soviet bloc, if not in name, is not listed, but we all believe that is the real reason because we believe the primary reasons are weak.
> 
> If we examine every invasion in history, we will find reasons, some *ARE* legitimate such as D-Day or when ECOWAS invaded to intervene in civil wars to prevent further regional disorder and humanitarian crisis, some are not legitimate like how Kuwait was 'stealing' Iraqi oil via the lateral drilling method and that Kuwait was an actual Iraqi province of old. Speaking as a cynic, at least there were/are attempts of facade of legitimate reasons or covers to do something immoral. But if we accept the Mearsheimer path as _prima facie_ reason, great powers will not even try to find covers and smaller states will suffer for it.



How about the reasons given for the invasion of Iraq in 2003?

That was a case study in building a case for a war with falsehood.

Countries will do what they will do.

Mearsheimer calls it like it is.

And he systematically laid out the reasons for THIS conflict from as far back as 2015.

And what did he prescribe as the solution to avert a war?

Ukraine as a neutral buffer. (i.e. NO NATO and a limited military)

Which is what is gonna happen anyways now.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504179366506422280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504180485559308293

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## lightning F57

Even if Putin is eliminated/replaced with an opposition leader, I am not sure Europe/Nato would still trust Russia. I think this go's beyond Putin, they are wary and scared of the 5000+ nukes, massive amounts of natural resources Russia has and how they can influence the world (abit like China) and Russian history which has been expansive in nature.


----------



## RescueRanger

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504091172196823042


I guess now we know what that meeting with the Estonians was about 👍

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504172756040048648

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## gambit

Avicenna said:


> How about the reasons given for the invasion of Iraq in 2003?
> 
> That was a case study in building a case for a war with falsehood.
> 
> Countries will do what they will do.
> 
> Mearsheimer calls it like it is.
> 
> And he systematically laid out the reasons for THIS conflict from as far back as 2015.
> 
> And what did he prescribe as the solution to avert a war?
> 
> Ukraine as a neutral buffer. (i.e. NO NATO and a limited military)
> 
> Which is what is gonna happen anyways now.


If you give legitimacy to Mearsheimer, even if he is correct about Poutine's reasoning, then might as well make a public declaration now that *YOU* support the simplistic 'might is right' policy for foreign affairs. Pointing out how you do not like what happened to Iraq does not change that. The funny thing is that not even Mearsheimer himself wanted to go that far. He was bold enough to blame the West, but not enough to say that what he posited should be the norm. Are *YOU* braver than him?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

dBSPL said:


> Biden to Putin
> - Welcome to club bro...
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504172431547764739



News flash gramps. War is human nature. There is war every day in the world since dawn of humanity 200,000 years ago.

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## Meengla

lightning F57 said:


> Even if Putin is eliminated/replaced with an opposition leader, I am not sure Europe/Nato would still trust Russia. I think this go's beyond Putin, they are wary and scared of the 5000+ nukes, massive amounts of natural resources Russia has and how they can influence the world (abit like China) and Russian history which has been expansive in nature.



For sure, Russia is so big because of conquests and subjugation. Soviet Union was even bigger. Warsaw Pact, made it even bigger. All cobbled together using brute force or threat of force. Otherwise, there wasn't much in common as we have been seeing with the rapid disintegration of the USSR and revolt against, what might be called now 'The Sick Man of Europe'. 
But I really think post Putin it will be different. The Christian, white Russia west of the Urals is destined to join Europe. A lot of members here are making wild claims about Russia taking on NATO countries after Ukraine. I don't think so. I don't think that's possible or even desired. Russia is a has-been power for decades and all this talk of 'poking the mighty bear' is hyped up!!

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504172003409989632


Meengla said:


> For sure, Russia is so big because of conquests and subjugation.



Same can be said about the US, China.



Meengla said:


> The Christian, white Russia west of the Urals is destined to join Europe.



Lay off the race theory.

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## Avicenna

gambit said:


> If you give legitimacy to Mearsheimer, even if he is correct about Poutine's reasoning, then might as well make a public declaration now that *YOU* support the simplistic 'might is right' policy for foreign affairs. Pointing out how you do not like what happened to Iraq does not change that. The funny thing is that not even Mearsheimer himself wanted to go that far. He was bold enough to blame the West, but not enough to say that what he posited should be the norm. Are *YOU* braver than him?



Isn't "might is right" what has been going on since the fall of the Soviet Union?

30+ years of US hegemony.

And what do we have to show for it?

Don't minimize what the US has done in the past.

It doesn't start or stop at Iraq.

Just examine history.

Millions of lives have been affected.

MILLIONS.

This is the dawn of a multipolar world where there will be some semblance of balance.

And the citizens of weaker nations will be the beneficiary.

As for this conflict?

Putin has tried to reason with the West for years.

He was FORCED into this.

It may not be going as well as Russia had planned.

But they too have "a line in the sand."

Furthermore, I am not stating what is right or not.

I am just saying what is.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Avicenna said:


> 30+ years of US hegemony.



US is not located on the world island, the Old World. US is located in the New World. You cannot dominate unless you have a foothold in the Old World. US never had hegemony of the human race.

update of the Mariupol battle


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504177683864899585


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## jamal18

Avicenna said:


> Isn't "Might is right" what has been going on since the fall of the Soviet Union?
> 
> 30+ years of US hegemony.
> 
> And what do we have to show for it?
> 
> Don't minimize what the US has done in the past.
> 
> It doesn't start or stop at Iraq.
> 
> Just examine history.
> 
> Millions of lives have been affected.
> 
> MILLIONS.
> 
> This is the dawn of multipolar world where there will be some semblance of balance.
> 
> And the citizens of weaker nations will be the beneficiary.
> 
> As for this conflict?
> 
> Putin has tried to reason with the West for years.
> 
> He was FORCED into this.
> 
> It may not be going as well as Russia had planned.
> 
> But they too have "a line in the sand."
> 
> Furthermore, I am not stating what is right or not.
> 
> I am just saying what is.


The Russians were forced to do this. The blame lies with the US.

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504172756040048648


Do both sides employ this tactic now?


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504186170149941257*Rus Ordusu(Russian Army)

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504185264729726980
Here's the whole $800M package

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## dBSPL

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504185264729726980
> Here's the whole $800M package


Incredibly expensive.


----------



## Foinikas

Menthol said:


> The more Ukraine resists...
> 
> The more destruction and longer the suffering.
> 
> Just give up quickly and promote world peace.
> 
> If not, this incident will all over again but greater.
> 
> The one that starts all the drama is Ukraine itself.
> 
> Too idiot to be fooled and used by the USA.


Did you see Zelensky's soap-opera with the American government? It was so ridiculous.

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## Ich

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504120775749550081



Well, this "international Court" ist just a propaganda tool. Only the countries marked green recognize this court.

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## nang2

dBSPL said:


> Incredibly expensive.


Not really. They just print that much money to pay for it. The real cost is spread among all US-dollar-holding people in the world, like me.

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## Kraetoz

Foinikas said:


> Did you see Zelensky's soap-opera with the American government? It was so ridiculous.


Are they giving Zelensky no-fly zone or just the usual lip service?


----------



## Foinikas

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504185264729726980
> Here's the whole $800M package


He will put it in good use? Does he even fight or just talks?


----------



## F-22Raptor

dBSPL said:


> Incredibly expensive.




Ukraine is also getting an additional $200M in weapons currently to equal $1B total.

The US has also allocated an additional $2.5B in future weapon packages



Foinikas said:


> He will put it in good use? Does he even fight or just talks?



He's a reporter for the Kiev Independent

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## Foinikas

Kraetoz said:


> Are they giving Zelensky no-fly zone or just the usual lip service?


They gave him a "Slava Ukraini" at the end with American accent.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504189094758338569

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## gambit

Avicenna said:


> Isn't "might is right" what has been going on since the fall of the Soviet Union?
> 
> 30+ years of US hegemony.
> 
> Furthermore, I am not stating what is right or not.
> 
> *I am just saying what is.*


So basically, you are afraid of taking a stand on this issue. I have no problem: What Mearsheimer said is true, but true in reality does not make morally acceptable, so for me, I refuse to legitimize Mearsheimer's position as a valid justification for great powers to act in their interests.

That was not too difficult. Not sure why it was for you.


----------



## Kraetoz

Foinikas said:


> They gave him a "Slava Ukraini" at the end with American accent.


So still staying out of the war zone, as they arm Ukrainians to fight their enemy for them. Brilliant strategy.


----------



## kingQamaR

jamal18 said:


> The Russians were forced to do this. The blame lies with the US.



Why should Ukraine agree to anything russia demands? They are a separate country. They have no involvement whatsoever with Russia. Russia has no right to force or guide Ukraines policy in any manner.



Foinikas said:


> He will put it in good use? Does he even fight or just talks?



So invade....and then agree to withdraw if you obey! Typical Putin

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## Foinikas

gambit said:


> So basically, you are afraid of taking a stand on this issue. I have no problem: What Mearsheimer said is true, but true in reality does not make morally acceptable, so for me, I refuse to legitimize Mearsheimer's position as a valid justification for great powers to act in their interests.
> 
> That was not too difficult. Not sure why it was for you.


Brother I think that the Russians shouldn't have invaded Ukraine. However USA and Britain pushed them to do this.
The West basically forced them to take action because of their constant meddling
In Ukraine and their greed. 

NATO expanded way too much. When the U.S. and some other Western countries insisted on gaining influence on countries that were "Russian turf",like Georgia,Armenia and now Ukraine...that was too much. Especially Ukraine. 

When you corner an animal,it will attack you. It's a matter of survival.

And when France and Germany wanted to talk,USA and Britain kept escalating this.

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## gambit

Foinikas said:


> Brother I think that the Russians shouldn't have invaded Ukraine. However USA and Britain pushed them to do this.
> The West basically forced them to take action because of their constant meddling
> In Ukraine and their greed.
> 
> NATO expanded way too much. When the U.S. and some other Western countries insisted on gaining influence on countries that were "Russian turf",like Georgia,Armenia and now Ukraine...that was too much. Especially Ukraine.
> 
> When you corner an animal,it will attack you. It's a matter of survival.
> 
> And when France and Germany wanted to talk,USA and Britain kept escalating this.


Do *YOU* believe that a free state have the right and freedom of association? Of course you do. That is the high level. Assuming what you said about Poutine fearing the encroachment of NATO, that is the one level down, the realpolitik level. Ukraine did not violate anything of Russia. It was Poutine who feared, which is something self generated, and invaded Ukraine. So now each of us have to take a stand. Do we take the moral high road? Or do we allow realpolitik to dominate foreign affairs? Might as well say something like this: Your skirt is too short and you wear too much makeup so you deserved to be raped.

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## Foinikas

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504194561614270470


I have something better

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## leviathan

gambit said:


> Does that mean the US will sell no more? When will China invade Taiwan to take advantage of this drone disparity?


Lol Your overpriced shiity drone is so bad that even your step dad UK can't afford more than 10. Pathetic

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

More Russian men heading to real life training. Including T-72B3M which is on par with M1A2.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504126097646133251


----------



## Foinikas

gambit said:


> Do *YOU* believe that a free state have the right and freedom of association? Of course you do. That is the high level. Assuming what you said about Poutine fearing the encroachment of NATO, that is the one level down, the realpolitik level. Ukraine did not violate anything of Russia. It was Poutine who feared, which is something self generated, and invaded Ukraine. So now each of us have to take a stand. Do we take the moral high road? Or do we allow realpolitik to dominate foreign affairs? Might as well say something like this: Your skirt is too short and you wear too much makeup so you deserved to be raped.


First of all why do you call him "Poutine"?
It sounds like a French word.

Second,since you talk about realpolitiks,
the pro-Russian government of Yanukovich was toppled by riots of ultranationalist and pro-Western political parties and organizations.

There's no moral high ground in the West's fanatical anti-Russian policies and encouraging of Ukraine to take on Russia even before the war started.
You could have made it clear and agreed with Russia that Ukraine should be a neutral country and solve this.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504200321505054722

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## RescueRanger

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraine is also getting an additional $200M in weapons currently to equal $1B total.
> 
> The US has also allocated an additional $2.5B in future weapon packages
> 
> 
> 
> He's a reporter for the Kiev Independent


He’s actually a former azov fighter but I like some of his tweets, very informative about the realities on the ground.



leviathan said:


> Lol Your overpriced shiity drone is so bad that even your step dad UK can't afford more than 10. Pathetic


Pakistan did buy a couple of scan eagle drones in 2016, if I remember correctly they are in use by Pakistan Navy and Anti Narcotics Force.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504202729861824514

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## Avicenna

gambit said:


> So basically, you are afraid of taking a stand on this issue. I have no problem: *What Mearsheimer said is true*, but true in reality does not make morally acceptable, so for me, I refuse to legitimize Mearsheimer's position as a valid justification for great powers to act in their interests.
> 
> That was not too difficult. Not sure why it was for you.



Apples and oranges.

It's not my intention to take a stand as to what is morally correct or not.

Don't try your obfuscation with me.

And thanks for making my point.

Yes, what Mearsheimer said IS true.

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## gambit

Avicenna said:


> Apples and oranges.
> 
> It's not my intention to take a stand as to what is morally correct or not.
> 
> Don't try your obfuscation with me.
> 
> And thanks for making my point.
> 
> Yes, what Mearsheimer said IS true.


This means from now on, from *YOUR* position, *YOU* have no cause to criticize US because you essentially accept Mearsheimer's position as legitimate _casus belli_ for war. Every time *YOU* criticize US, I will point you to Mearsheimer.


----------



## Avicenna

gambit said:


> This means from now on, from *YOUR* position, *YOU* have no cause to criticize US because you essentially accept Mearsheimer's position as legitimate _casus belli_ for war. Every time *YOU* criticize US, I will point you to Mearsheimer.



How do *YOU* come to that conclusion professor?

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## gambit

Foinikas said:


> First of all why do you call him "Poutine"?
> It sounds like a French word.


Poutine is a Canadian dish. Pretty good comfort food. I like it.



Foinikas said:


> Second,since you talk about realpolitiks,
> the pro-Russian government of Yanukovich was toppled by riots of ultranationalist and pro-Western political parties and organizations.


The Ukrainians disagrees with you on this. You can look it up for yourself.



Foinikas said:


> There's no moral high ground in the West's fanatical anti-Russian policies and encouraging of Ukraine to take on Russia even before the war started.
> You could have made it clear and agreed with Russia that Ukraine should be a neutral country and solve this.


My position is that Ukraine have the *INHERENT* right and freedom of association. Same as any free state does.


----------



## Foinikas

gambit said:


> This means from now on, from *YOUR* position, *YOU* have no cause to criticize US because you essentially accept Mearsheimer's position as legitimate _casus belli_ for war. Every time *YOU* criticize US, I will point you to Mearsheimer.


"Whoever is not with us is against us" like Bush said?



gambit said:


> The Ukrainians disagrees with you on this. You can look it up for yourself.


Not all the Ukrainians. A very big part of them didn't want the government to change. Millions voted for Yanukovich.




gambit said:


> My position is that Ukraine have the *INHERENT* right and freedom of association. Same as any free state does.


Well then Cuba had the INHERENT RIGHT AND FREEDOM TO INSTALL SOVIET NUCLEAR MISSILES next to Florida. How's that?

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504207161475407873

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## jamal18

gambit said:


> My position is that Ukraine have the *INHERENT* right and freedom of association. Same as any free state does.


So the Cubans can house Russian nuclear weapons?

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## gambit

You guys can stop trying to salvage face for Poutine. Even if there is a negotiated settlement where Ukraine declared neutrality, Ukraine won. Poutine will remain in power but will be despised worldwide. More news about the war will creep into Russia and more Russians will want Poutine out. Russia's economy will take yrs to recover. The Russian military will no longer be considered a 'near peer' to the US and will continue to decline.

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## LeGenD

Huffal said:


> Oh my God, can you please, please, PLEASE shut the **** up and stop derailing this thread.
> 
> F22 raptor is bad enough with his spam, you are even worse. You contribute absolutely nothing here. At least f22 is on topic.
> 
> @LeGenD can you thread ban this moron already?


Bad enough it was already but Tai Hai Chen has also entered the chat.

God help us all.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504214052242927617

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## Foinikas

gambit said:


> You guys can stop trying to salvage face for Poutine. Even if there is a negotiated settlement where Ukraine declared neutrality, Ukraine won. Poutine will remain in power but will be despised worldwide. More news about the war will creep into Russia and more Russians will want Poutine out. Russia's economy will take yrs to recover. The Russian military will no longer be considered a 'near peer' to the US and will continue to decline.


Despised worldwide because of YOUR propaganda. Because you banned Russian media,because you didn't show the other side of the story. You politicised social media and created a hatred for Russian people akin to Nazi propaganda.
The only thing you haven't called them yet is "Untermenschen". You blocked them from VISA and MASTERCARD,you seized their money,you blocked them from international competitions.

You even encouraged the banning of Russian books and composers in some countries.

This creates hatred and mistrust. And for what? For Ukraine. As if USA Britain and half of Western Europe haven't invaded a gazillion countries already!

The hypocrisy and the lies!

REGIME CHANGE IS OK WHEN AMERICANS ARE DOING IT? COME ON!

You grew up during the Cold War like I did. You saw all these wars after 1991 like I did. You know USA,Britain and Western Europe can't point the finger and talk about "Putin war criminal" and "dictator". You know how many people in the Balkans consider Clinton a war criminal and want to hang him? You know how many people in the Middle-East consider Bush a war criminal and want to hang him?

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## Wood

gambit said:


> You guys can stop trying to salvage face for Poutine. Even if there is a negotiated settlement where Ukraine declared neutrality, Ukraine won. Poutine will remain in power but will be despised worldwide. More news about the war will creep into Russia and more Russians will want Poutine out. Russia's economy will take yrs to recover. The Russian military will no longer be considered a 'near peer' to the US and will continue to decline.


Please don't be so hard on people who live in US, Canada or EU but still claim to support Putin's regime. There taxes (both direct and indirect) are spent on supporting the Ukrainian resistance. Their opinions here are a waste of cyber space. Let them have that in peace


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504215093676019717

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504216518573363201


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503915138449031169
Politico: Washington will send 100 Switchblade drones to Ukraine.


----------



## patero

gambit said:


> You guys can stop trying to salvage face for Poutine. Even if there is a negotiated settlement where Ukraine declared neutrality, Ukraine won. Poutine will remain in power but will be despised worldwide. More news about the war will creep into Russia and more Russians will want Poutine out. *Russia's economy will take yrs to recover.* The Russian military will no longer be considered a 'near peer' to the US and will continue to decline.


I just watched a clip from one of my favorite finance/investment vloggers about the direct daily cost of this war for Russia, $20 billion US a day according to a consulting firm. That's just the direct short term costs and doesn't include the flow on effects from sanctions and corporate withdrawals.

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## A1Kaid

gambit said:


> Poutine is a Canadian dish. Pretty good comfort food. I like it.
> 
> 
> The Ukrainians disagrees with you on this. You can look it up for yourself.
> 
> 
> *My position is that Ukraine have the INHERENT right and freedom of association. Same as any free state does.*



Does Ukraine have the right to join NATO? Yes. Does Russia have the right to protect its national security? Yes. 

Both conditions are true and not mutually exclusive events. Why don't you and the pro-Ukraine/NATO people don't understand this? Virtually everything comes with *inherent* consequences.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

I am expecting another wave of 150.000 russian forces will enter by mid-April when the weather becomes fine for conflict around 5 to 10 celisus Which is right in the middle not warm or cold meaning best weather condition and since they hold many major roads winter won't be necessary now for an incursion.. 

They will need Urban fighters and mercaneries will likely make a cameo in the mid-april offensive wave


----------



## oberschlesier

Wood said:


> Please don't be so hard on people who live in US, Canada or EU but still claim to support Putin's regime. There taxes (both direct and indirect) are spent on supporting the Ukrainian resistance. Their opinions here are a waste of cyber space. Let them have that in peace


It`s a minority. Why support Russia anyway? What they are doing right now is so unbelivelably stupid, that I really sometimes think that Mr. P is a CIA agent.

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## RescueRanger

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504202729861824514


False flag confirmed:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504200509481173006


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504152872266645512


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ka-52 Alligator and Mi-28 Havoc CAS helicopters attacking tanks and artillery


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504206880872275980


----------



## RescueRanger

Rumours of civil war in Belarus: 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504182313130807297

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## ProudPak

oberschlesier said:


> It`s a minority. Why support Russia anyway? What they are doing right now is so unbelivelably stupid, that I really sometimes think that Mr. P is a CIA agent.


I think most people remember the nazi Ukraine element. They remember Ukraines contribution in Iraq being the 3rd largest and very significant in Afghanistan. People are happy that Russia is being sanctioned and countries have taken not their assets are not safe. They are happy that a bipolar world will bring peace to smaller countries and west will not be able to invade at will. They also realise this will bring a lot of relief in the Muslim world. Look at the impact on the Iran deal. Petro dollar already has been shaken with the Saudis negotiating some trade in the yuan. Russia will not sell gas or oil in dollars. This will start the downward slide of USA and Israel. All the Christians have sided to kill Muslims so sit back and relax. Attitude. This will only happen if Russia wins on the ground gets a deal and then withdraws


----------



## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504205820015394818
Translation: 
Belarusian media report that sounds similar to explosions are being heard in several cities of Belarus at once. They were heard in Baranovichi, Luninets, Slutsk and other cities. Information about what is happening is specified

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504167149652385828


----------



## Primus

LeGenD said:


> Bad enough it was already but Tai Hai Chen has also entered the chat.
> 
> God help us all.


Tai hai chen is bad, but at least he actually posted something on topic. Beny has been doing NOTHING but derail. Thats all he does in the threads hes in. How is he not banned?

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## ProudPak

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504205820015394818
> Translation:
> Belarusian media report that sounds similar to explosions are being heard in several cities of Belarus at once. They were heard in Baranovichi, Luninets, Slutsk and other cities. Information about what is happening is specified


Interesting


----------



## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504189094758338569



The idea of security in depth - or being "away" from the front lines - no longer applies - everything everywhere is a target in an era of drones..


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

artillery in action


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504217139963703297


----------



## ProudPak

Ali_Baba said:


> The idea of security in depth - or being "away" from the front lines - no longer applies - everything everywhere is a target in an era of drones..


Days of tank is over. Turkish tb2 rule


----------



## Wood

RescueRanger said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504205820015394818
> Translation:
> Belarusian media report that sounds similar to explosions are being heard in several cities of Belarus at once. They were heard in Baranovichi, Luninets, Slutsk and other cities. Information about what is happening is specified


I'm not a supporter of violent revolutions, but I hope the Belarussian People find a way to get rid of Lukashenko. He seems to be more of a despot than Putin

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Mariupol battle


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504215469825400850
Kharkov update


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504213904951590914


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504208669377978373

Something is happening in Belarus. Chatter of a coup

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504046581192216576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504111452440961034


----------



## Foinikas

ProudPak said:


> Days of tank is over. Turkish tb2 rule


And when weapons that destroy drones easily are found,what will you say? That the day of the drones is over? 

Anti-aircraft systems were invented and aircraft didn't stop existing.

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## FuturePAF

Is NATO about to Supply Ukraine with a full spectrum of ex-Soviet air defense missiles just short of the S-300? See the full thread for details. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504072564234235904


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504067534684921862

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504164472696549377

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504164672127254531

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## Paul2

gambit said:


> I understand the reality and the geopolitics. But the greater danger is that...
> 
> If we allow the legitimization of the John Mearsheimer school of great power geopolitics, great powers *WILL NOT* need any other justifications, no matter how specious, to intimidate, threaten, and even invade neighbors based solely upon the vague 'national security' reason. Take a look at why Russia invaded Ukraine:
> 
> Resurgence of neo Nazism,​Ethnic abuse of Russians,​Possible NATO membership,​Potential nuclear weapons hosting from NATO,​That Ukraine is not a 'real' country.​
> Those are the five *PRIMARY* reasons. Each of them is already weak on its own. Who knows if there are secondary reasons. The ulterior motive of resurrecting the former Soviet bloc, if not in name, is not listed, but we all believe that is the real reason because we believe the primary reasons are weak.
> 
> If we examine every invasion in history, we will find reasons, some *ARE* legitimate such as D-Day or when ECOWAS invaded to intervene in civil wars to prevent further regional disorder and humanitarian crisis, some are not legitimate like how Kuwait was 'stealing' Iraqi oil via the lateral drilling method and that Kuwait was an actual Iraqi province of old. Speaking as a cynic, at least there were/are attempts of facade of legitimate reasons or covers to do something immoral. But if we accept the Mearsheimer path as _prima facie_ reason, great powers will not even try to find covers and smaller states will suffer for it.



The guy looks to me like a Kissinger 2.0 wannabe



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504145180647170060
> Here come the Greeks



122 missiles... That's only 3 reloads


----------



## Avicenna

Wood said:


> Please don't be so hard on people who live in US, Canada or EU but still claim to support Putin's regime. There taxes (both direct and indirect) are spent on supporting the Ukrainian resistance. Their opinions here are a waste of cyber space. Let them have that in peace



Our opinions have as much worth as yours.

Zero.

What we are pointing out are the ridiculous levels of hypocrisy and double standards.

Stop sipping the Kool-Aid and think about it.

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## Elias MC

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504208669377978373
> 
> Something is happening in Belarus. Chatter of a coup




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504208069051490313


----------



## Paul2

Foinikas said:


> And when weapons that destroy drones easily are found,what will you say? That the day of the drones is over?
> 
> Anti-aircraft systems were invented and aircraft didn't stop existing.





ProudPak said:


> Days of tank is over. Turkish tb2 rule



Active protection is the only feasible way now to extend armour lifetime, but it will only help so much.

If a drone will drop a 500kg bomb on you, it will not make much difference if it hit you, or APS shot it down fee meters away from you.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504151583256416263

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## Wood

Avicenna said:


> Our opinions have as much worth as yours.
> 
> Zero.
> 
> What we are pointing out are the ridiculous levels of hypocrisy and double standards.
> 
> Stop sipping the Kool-Aid and think about it.


Exactly. Opinions online are worth Zero. Please point all you want. I'm at peace with the knowledge that you will pay for Ukrainian resistance against the Russian occupation.

Thank you very much

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504184183136178179

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## RescueRanger

Elias MC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504208069051490313


Doesn't explain the sonic booms heard over Pinsk.


----------



## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504227944734015488


RescueRanger said:


> Doesn't explain the sonic booms heard over Pinsk.



Pinsk is a city in Belarus belonging to the Brest province

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## oberschlesier

ProudPak said:


> I think most people remember the nazi Ukraine element. They remember Ukraines contribution in Iraq being the 3rd largest and very significant in Afghanistan. People are happy that Russia is being sanctioned and countries have taken not their assets are not safe. They are happy that a bipolar world will bring peace to smaller countries and west will not be able to invade at will. They also realise this will bring a lot of relief in the Muslim world. Look at the impact on the Iran deal. Petro dollar already has been shaken with the Saudis negotiating some trade in the yuan. Russia will not sell gas or oil in dollars. This will start the downward slide of USA and Israel. All the Christians have sided to kill Muslims so sit back and relax. Attitude. This will only happen if Russia wins on the ground gets a deal and then withdraws


 If Russia wins on the ground gets a deal and then withdraws. Ukraine will anyway drift in the direction of the EU, as the quality of life in EU is much higher, which is a attractor, that is why there were revolutions in 2004 and 2014 in Ukr. Russia`s Ukraine policy completely failed and now is using force. The only way would be to partition Ukraine and annex the east part, but as mr P. is in the process of creating an unified Ukrainian nation now, I do not believe this is sustainable in the long run. Whatever Russia does, it`s bad for Russia. For the rest of the world, I would not go here so far. Russian economy is to small to matter in a long run. Definatelly gas prices will go up in Europe, Food prices will go up all over the world, causing unfortunally more people to die because of hunger, than in this war.

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## RescueRanger

Elias MC said:


> Pinsk is a city in Belarus belonging to the Brest province



Yes I know that and its almost *160km *from the training centre.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

bobo6661 said:


> you posted this like 3 times already



No, I didn't. Perhaps you're hallucinating in a broad daylight.

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## gambit

Paul2 said:


> The guy looks to me like a Kissinger 2.0 wannabe


You mean Mearsheimer? There is no shortage of Kissingers and Mearsheimers, not just in the US but in every country, especially in the major powers. The danger is that when we remove the moral component from inter-states relationships, we give license to the Kissingers and Mearsheimers of the world to dictate how countries with different needs should live. They are always removed from the consequences of their 'advice'.

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## RescueRanger

Another story on foreign fighters in Ukraine - this time of a US citizen named Zander who was at the 'International Center for Peacekeeping and Security' - Zander says "he was watching the movie _Saving Private Ryan_ in his room on the base at around 5am, when all of the sudden his “whole fucking window was blown out.” - He has now left Ukraine and is in Poland. 

More here:









American Foreign Fighter Says He Was Injured In Russian Air Strike


An American foreign fighter, who would identify himself only as “Zander,” said he was injured March 13 in a Russian airstrike on the “International Center for Peacekeeping and Security” in Yavoriv, located in far Western Ukraine. The strike drew much notice because it was the most westward...




mtracey.substack.com

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504212377977249795

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## gambit

A1Kaid said:


> Does Ukraine have the right to join NATO? Yes. Does Russia have the right to protect its national security? Yes.
> 
> Both conditions are true and not mutually exclusive events. Why don't you and the pro-Ukraine/NATO people don't understand this? Virtually everything comes with *inherent* consequences.


The problem here is that which produces material consequences? NATO membership does not trespass any Russian territory or harm Russian economy. What Russia did was essentially a preemptive strike against a perceived threat formed from a suspected potential association.

Perception
Suspicion
Potential
What next? If you raise your defense budget, can I add to or replace an item from that list with your defense budget? How about if you elect a president or prime minister who maybe friendly to one of my enemies? So now the additional questions are: Do you have the right to raise your defense budget or elect any leader you chose? If I make a preemptive strike to your country, that means whatever rights and/or freedoms you may have rests on my whims.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504233494976864256
Russia has already deployed 75% of its BTG groups. Don’t think Russia can commit much more without jeopardizing its homeland defense posture.

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## A.P. Richelieu

jamal18 said:


> So the Cubans can house Russian nuclear weapons?


Cubans can only house Russian nuclear weapons if the Russians allow them. They did not allow them after the Cuba crisis.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Chechens in Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504229821060194304

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## jamal18

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Cubans can only house Russian nuclear weapons if the Russians allow them. They did not allow them after the Cuba crisis.


The US had nothing to do with it? 

Orwellian logic.


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> The guy looks to me like a Kissinger 2.0 wannabe
> 
> 
> 
> 122 missiles... That's only 3 reloads


pretty sure that's 122 mm......

RM-70 fire 122mm rockets.


----------



## kingQamaR

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Chechens in Mariupol
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504229821060194304



They got short memory remember what the Russians did to Chechnya, but money talks and he is also in Putin's pocket leader of Chechnya


----------



## Foinikas

Paul2 said:


> Active protection is the only feasible way now to extend armour lifetime, but it will only help so much.
> 
> If a drone will drop a 500kg bomb on you, it will not make much difference if it hit you, or APS shot it down fee meters away from you.


And if an airplane does the same the tank will be destroyed. Tanks have been bombed since WWII.

In the 2000s I kept hearing that tanks are obsolete because of anti-tank weapons and guerrilla tactics.


----------



## jhungary

ProudPak said:


> I think most people remember the nazi Ukraine element. They remember Ukraines contribution in Iraq being the 3rd largest and very significant in Afghanistan. People are happy that Russia is being sanctioned and countries have taken not their assets are not safe. They are happy that a bipolar world will bring peace to smaller countries and west will not be able to invade at will. They also realise this will bring a lot of relief in the Muslim world. Look at the impact on the Iran deal. Petro dollar already has been shaken with the Saudis negotiating some trade in the yuan. Russia will not sell gas or oil in dollars. This will start the downward slide of USA and Israel. All the Christians have sided to kill Muslims so sit back and relax. Attitude. This will only happen if Russia wins on the ground gets a deal and then withdraws



There are only 2 problems.

1.) US is the biggest Oil Production country in the world. Not Iran and Russia, and also US Dollars is the world dominance reserve currency, not Yuan or Ruble or whatever currency Iran is using. It's one thing you settle the oil payment with local currency, it's another thing to be able to use them. Which mean even if you settle your payment with Yuan or Ruble (which is pretty dumb), you will still need to exchange it to US Dollars for Saudi or any country that are trading them.

2.) It's a misconception that Petrodollar is the reason of US Dollars dominance. The world Oil market is estimated at 342 trillions dollars a year, while this alone is impressive (Roughly 14 times US GDP every year), this is a drop in the bucket if you compare to the sheer trade volume in US Dollars with SWIFT alone, it was estimated by SWIFT that 5-6 trillions worth of USD settlement in a single day, which give you roughly 2 quadrillion (that's 2,000 trillions) USD being settle every year. And that's only SWIFT.

This is what and why US dollar have its power





__





How America's Use of Economic Warfare Could Spark a Currency Crisis | Michael Maharrey


In response to the U.S. government's weaponization of the dollar, a number of countries, including China, Russia, and Iran, have taken steps to limit their dependence on the dominant currency and have even been working to establish alternative payment systems.



fee.org

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## Foinikas

kingQamaR said:


> They got short memory remember what the Russians did to Chechnya, but money talks and he is also in Putin's pocket leader of Chechnya


Even back then the Chechens were divided into two camps: The loyalists and the separatists.

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## beast89

kingQamaR said:


> They got short memory remember what the Russians did to Chechnya, but money talks and he is also in Putin's pocket leader of Chechnya


Yes they should fight to the death with Russians. They saw that wahabi/salafi ideology creeping into their land and knew it would be detrimental to their people.


----------



## jhungary

nang2 said:


> Their surnames are long, too. Don't they know human beings can only hold 7 digits in the brain at the same time?


Well, like any European Surname, Ukrainian Surname is a mix of Prefix and Sufix 





__





Ukrainian surnames - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





If you know the origin of Ukrainian Names, it's easy to remember.

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504244707395788802


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

The freedom fighters of DNR and LPR seized the positions of the Ukrainian forces after they drove them out of Popasna



Spoiler





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504242921029177346




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504244341182713861

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504224474924736515

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## F-22Raptor

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504224474924736515



Shoigu is an imbecile and should be hanged


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504235505264779268

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504104605982068741

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## gambit

Foinikas said:


> "Whoever is not with us is against us" like Bush said?


If you or anyone believe what Mearsheimer said about great powers geopolitics as legitimate foreign affairs policy, then you believe in what Bush said.



Foinikas said:


> Not all the Ukrainians. A very big part of them didn't want the government to change. Millions voted for Yanukovich.


Big enough to win an election? Am not getting into a debate on the details of that election. If you believe in Yanukovich, no contrary evidence will change your mind.



Foinikas said:


> Well then Cuba had the INHERENT RIGHT AND FREEDOM TO INSTALL SOVIET NUCLEAR MISSILES next to Florida. How's that?


Did Ukraine installed nuclear weapons from NATO? The issue is *ASSOCIATION*. Or in this case, a potential association.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504225451321053186

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## gambit

Foinikas said:


> Despised worldwide because of YOUR propaganda. Because you banned Russian media,because you didn't show the other side of the story. You politicised social media and created a hatred for Russian people akin to Nazi propaganda.
> The only thing you haven't called them yet is "Untermenschen". You blocked them from VISA and MASTERCARD,you seized their money,you blocked them from international competitions.
> 
> You even encouraged the banning of Russian books and composers in some countries.
> 
> This creates hatred and mistrust. And for what? For Ukraine. As if USA Britain and half of Western Europe haven't invaded a gazillion countries already!
> 
> The hypocrisy and the lies!
> 
> REGIME CHANGE IS OK WHEN AMERICANS ARE DOING IT? COME ON!
> 
> You grew up during the Cold War like I did. You saw all these wars after 1991 like I did. You know USA,Britain and Western Europe can't point the finger and talk about "Putin war criminal" and "dictator". You know how many people in the Balkans consider Clinton a war criminal and want to hang him? You know how many people in the Middle-East consider Bush a war criminal and want to hang him?


So to sum it up, Russia should be allowed to invade and take over countries to have a 1-1 historical match.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504211323852312586

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504141445896323079

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504177896172183553

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504141445896323079

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504226314760466436
The Ukrainian John Deere Brigade set to begin operations any day now

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504232881232744449


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504178686983118863

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504253858515759106


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504164217787764744

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## Vergennes

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504164217787764744



And this is how this tank ended. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504156329862217735

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## Elvin

F-22Raptor said:


> Shoigu is an imbecile and should be hanged



Would you speak this way about American generals in Iraq and Afghanistan?

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## Elias MC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504256247842979843

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504256563565023243

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## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> And this is how this tank ended.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504156329862217735


Why did you have to steal his thunder like that?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> They got short memory remember what the Russians did to Chechnya, but money talks and he is also in Putin's pocket leader of Chechnya



Chechens have Russian citizenship. Plus, Chechen guys have the hots for Russian girls.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Wood said:


> The psychological effect of American $$ flooding into this Russo-Ukrainian conflict cannot be understated. While the Ukrainians are surely licking their lips to get some effective weapons, the Russians will be haunted by what they've read from their history books. Russians have already lost most people in this 3 week conflict than the Americans lost in entire Afghan/Iraq campaign. With all the new hardware coming into Ukrainian hands, Russia may loose more people than the erstwhile Soviet lost in Afghanistan before the end of this month



Soviets had a 1:100 kill ratio in Afghanistan. Hopefully Ukraine doesn't come to that.

Ukraine is 1/4 Russian population and 1/10 Russian GDP so Russia has to fight this the same way US fought a similar enemy: Imperial Japan.


----------



## Wood

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Soviets had a 1:100 kill ratio in Afghanistan. Hopefully Ukraine doesn't come to that.
> 
> Ukraine is 1/4 Russian population and 1/10 Russian GDP so Russia has to fight this the same way US fought a similar enemy: Imperial Japan.


Russia lost that war, no?

I think a lot of civilians have already lost their lives in this war. But do we know that the number of Ukranians killed so far is half of Afghan civilians killed in Afghanistan? Because as per count in Western media, almost half as many Russians have died in Ukraine as those in Afghanistan 

EDIT: Kill ratio of Russians to (Ukranians + Foreign fighters) is just about 1:1


----------



## Foinikas

gambit said:


> Big enough to win an election? Am not getting into a debate on the details of that election. If you believe in Yanukovich, no contrary evidence will change your mind.


Big enough to win an election.















gambit said:


> Did Ukraine installed nuclear weapons from NATO? The issue is *ASSOCIATION*. Or in this case, a potential association.


They didn't have the chance yet.

But didn't USA try to change the government in Cuba as well? And I'm not a communist. I'm just talking about the double-standards.

Ukraine was off-limits for the West. But you had USA,Britain and a lot of NATO and EU leaders trying to make Ukraine into an American protectorate.

If Mexico had joined the Warsaw Pact,would you have felt ok with that? If Canada had joined the Warsaw Pact let's say,would you have tolerated that?

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Soviets had a 1:100 kill ratio in Afghanistan. Hopefully Ukraine doesn't come to that.
> 
> Ukraine is 1/4 Russian population and 1/10 Russian GDP so Russia has to fight this the same way US fought a similar enemy: Imperial Japan.



There was no 1:100 ratio in Afghanistan as the soviet union literally collapsed from that 9 year war it had approx half mil casualities could even be higher


----------



## Type59

Russia should mobilise it's reserves and put industry in war mode. NATO is pouring more and more weapon systems into Ukraine.

Putin got himself into a sticky situation, he has options but is he willing to exercise them.

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## Wood

Type59 said:


> Russia should mobilise it's reserves and put industry in war mode. NATO is pouring more and more weapon systems into Ukraine.
> 
> Putin got himself into a sticky situation, he has options but is he willing to exercise them.


If he mobilised reserves, it would be difficult to not call it a war to his domestic audience. He would like to show that this is a limited operation

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Type59 said:


> Russia should mobilise it's reserves and put industry in war mode. NATO is pouring more and more weapon systems into Ukraine.
> 
> Putin got himself into a sticky situation, he has options but is he willing to exercise them.



This will be no Afghanistan repeat for Russia. Putin will reach his goal within a year mark my words.. Ukrainians are no Afghans nor are there any mountains or ridiculous topography.

The fatigue will set in within the ukrainian ranks just wait for more weeks. Russia will take all of Ukraine within a year..

PATIENCE thats the key word here.. Do the Ukrianians have it for a long term meat grinder? I doubt it very much

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## Type59

Wood said:


> If he mobilised reserves, it would be difficult to not call it a war to his domestic audience. He would like to show that this is a limited operation



I don't think anyone is under the illusion this is not a war.


----------



## Foinikas

gambit said:


> So to sum it up, Russia should be allowed to invade and take over countries to have a 1-1 historical match.


Why the f should USA be allowed to invade? Why should USA and NATO play the policeman of the world. With what right did USA invade Iraq in 2003 and destabilized the entire region? Who gave you the right to destroy millions of lives by invading or changing governments in the Middle-East? With what right do you put sanctions on Venezuela and turn it into a country where people can't buy food or medicine? 

And why is it ok to give Kosovo as a gift to Albanians? Who told you to meddle in Yugoslavia? Where were your sanctions when Turkey invaded Cyprus?

And now all you do is nag about Russians invading Ukraine. Not Finland,not Poland,not South Korea not even Taiwan.

Ukraine. Because you want to meddle everywhere and can't respect limits and boundaries. Because Yemen has been bombed to pieces all these years,but suddenly evil Russia is bombing. 

Because you killed hundreds of thousands of people in your wars,but Putin evil dictator.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russia wants territorial concessions as condition for peace treaty.


----------



## Type59

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> This will be no Afghanistan repeat for Russia. Putin will reach his goal within a year mark my words.. Ukrainians are no Afghans nor are there any mountains or ridiculous topography.
> 
> The fatigue will set in within the ukrainian ranks just wait for more weeks. Russia will take all of Ukraine within a year..
> 
> PATIENCE thats the key word here.. Do the Ukrianians have it for a long term meat grinder? I doubt it very much



To win he needs to mobilise more men.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Type59 said:


> To win he needs to mobilise more men.



The warm weather is around the corner in mid-april aka fighting season. I believe we could witness another waves from both sides. As real fighting will begin then because right now both sides are hammered by the cold weather it is minus out there like between minus -2 to -5 celisus..

Come spring the weather will break and reach perfect weather conditions between plus 5 to 15 celisus... Nor to hot for fighting nor to cold for fighting tempered weather and perfect weather for fighting..

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Type59 said:


> To win he needs to mobilise more men.



No need more men. More and better hardware is more than enough.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Tai Hai Chen said:


> No need more men. More and better hardware is more than enough.



He is true.. Russia will need to throw in another 150.000 but wait until the weather breaks and I also believe they will bring in Syrian cannon fodders but the weather has to be right by waiting another 3 to 4 weeks

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504077092165722116


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> He is true.. Russia will need to throw in another 150.000 but wait until the weather breaks and I also believe they will bring in Syrian cannon fodders but the weather has to be right by waiting another 3 to 4 weeks



They can also pay Chinese men to fight in Ukraine. China has millions of single men who would love to fight for land and women in Ukraine. Unlike Syrian men who are not adapted for cold climate, Chinese men are well adapted for cold climate and are well suited for combat in Ukraine in winter.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Apparently Russia Special Force has just captured a huge cache of arms from foreign mercenaries in its latest operation including Javelin portable SAM. 

Russia says they will supplied these weapons to the Armies of the breakaway Republics in Eastern Ukraine.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Tai Hai Chen said:


> They can also pay Chinese men to fight in Ukraine. China has millions of single men who would love to fight for land and women in Ukraine. Unlike Syrian men who are not adapted for cold climate, Chinese men are well adapted for cold climate and are well suited for combat in Ukraine in winter.


That is true China could provide cannon fodders in ridiculous magnitude.. If Xi says okay I will give you cannon fodders the Russians will be surprised as a train with 2 million will arrive

The Russians will be like Holyshxt that is more then we asked for... but pleasantly great

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## Microsoft

Foinikas said:


> And why is it ok to give Kosovo as a gift to Albanians



What's the story here/

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## khansaheeb

serenity said:


> didn't western countries last week just steal all of Russian reserves held in Europe and USA?


Good pretext to encourage war.


----------



## Oldman1

Type59 said:


> Russia should mobilise it's reserves and put industry in war mode. NATO is pouring more and more weapon systems into Ukraine.
> 
> Putin got himself into a sticky situation, he has options but is he willing to exercise them.


Suppose to be a special operation or peacekeeping mission not a full blown war. He could mobilize the reserves, but he have to be nuts to put in hardly remembered or old men troops which he has to spend resources to feed and armed into Ukraine. Which means more casualties. Just as bad as conscripts, maybe even worse since many are fathers compared to younger conscripts.

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

lmao the Russian mod is becoming a comedy parody show

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504224474924736515


----------



## Oldman1

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia wants territorial concessions as condition for peace treaty.


Good luck with that. Ukrainians are at a point of wanting them back even if they have to kill every Russian soldier in the country.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Type59 said:


> Russia should mobilise it's reserves and put industry in war mode. NATO is pouring more and more weapon systems into Ukraine.
> 
> Putin got himself into a sticky situation, he has options but is he willing to exercise them.



Russia only has 25% of its BTGs left. The rest are all untrained conscripts that would get slaughtered in Ukraine.

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## Oldman1

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504224474924736515


Don't need a map to know there are nuclear materials in Ukraine.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> That is true China could provide cannon fodders in ridiculous magnitude.. If Xi says okay I will give you cannon fodders the Russians will be surprised as a train with 2 million will arrive
> 
> The Russians will be like Holyshxt that is more then we asked for... but pleasantly great



Chinese men are some of the most heavily armed in the world. You'd see HJ-12 anti tank missiles, Wing Loong 2 attack drones, QBZ-191 rifles. It would be pillaging of epic proportion. It would make Mongols look like a joke.

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## Oldman1

jamal18 said:


> The Russians were forced to do this. The blame lies with the US.


Uh no, the Ukrainians were forced to do this when Russia invaded their territories and have done so again prior to the invasion which makes Ukraine want to join NATO in the future because they will never trust any word Russia says as many generations will remember.



lightning F57 said:


> Even if Putin is eliminated/replaced with an opposition leader, I am not sure Europe/Nato would still trust Russia. I think this go's beyond Putin, they are wary and scared of the 5000+ nukes, massive amounts of natural resources Russia has and how they can influence the world (abit like China) and Russian history which has been expansive in nature.


Even if Putin did try to kill the leader of Ukraine, he has to deal with a hostile population.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Wood said:


> Russia lost that war, no?
> 
> I think a lot of civilians have already lost their lives in this war. But do we know that the number of Ukranians killed so far is half of Afghan civilians killed in Afghanistan? Because as per count in Western media, almost half as many Russians have died in Ukraine as those in Afghanistan
> 
> EDIT: Kill ratio of Russians to (Ukranians + Foreign fighters) is just about 1:1



Not really, they left with a functional Afghan government in control and with dignity. They didn't run with thousands of citizens stuck there and collaborators hanging to the landing gear of transports taking off while being shot at.

If you believe the 1:1 kill ratio idea when Russians are bombing and artillery striking cities, allegedly in war crimes, then I believe the Jawans from Galwan who threw 20 PLA soldiers off a cliff with his bare hands and the Ghost of Kiev are teaming up for Ukraine.


----------



## Oldman1

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Meh. Lancet is way scarier than Switchblade.







I be scared of a loitering weapon launch from mortar and can hit from 50km to 80km away. That includes hitting SAMs, artillery, rocket launchers, supply vehicles and depots, etc.



Flight of falcon said:


> Imagine West sending these sophisticated SAMs and they ending up in the wrong hands …. Who will be responsible?
> 
> Ukrainians have been dropping their Javelines and running away as if they are too hot to handle.
> 
> Wait until these start showing up in the middles East …


Still costing Russians their lives in tanks and other vehicles. Another reason why many abandoned their vehicles besides getting stuck.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504192140452184067


----------



## gambit

Foinikas said:


> But didn't USA try to change the government in Cuba as well? *And I'm not a communist*. I'm just talking about the double-standards.


Sure you are not. 



Foinikas said:


> Ukraine was off-limits for the West. But you had USA,Britain and a lot of NATO and EU leaders trying to make Ukraine into an American protectorate.
> 
> If Mexico had joined the Warsaw Pact,would you have felt ok with that? If Canada had joined the Warsaw Pact let's say,would you have tolerated that?


So now we can put John Mearsheimer's theory of great powers geopolitics to the test where, for the sake of discussion in this little corner of the interweb, we will legitimize his theory as valid justification to respond under the national security umbrella. We have two relatively contemporary real world situations.

*Situation 1:*
The US is a great power and is the leader of the democracy bloc.​Cuba is a neighbor and is a member of the communist bloc, not of the Warsaw Pact in particular, but of the communist bloc in general.​Cuba hosts nuclear weapons from the Soviet Union, the leader of the communist bloc.​The US responded with a blockade of Cuba.​The US negotiated with the Soviet Union for a successful settlement.​The Soviet Union withdraw the nuclear weapons.​The US ended the blockade.​
*Situation 2:*
Russia was once a Soviet state, leader of the Soviet Union, and leader of the communist bloc.​Russia today is a great power and is no member or leader of any bloc.​Ukraine was once a Soviet state, not an allied country but a member of the Soviet Union who had full jurisdiction over Ukraine.​Ukraine today is an independent country next to Russia and is no member of any bloc.​Ukraine expressed an interest in being a member of the democratic bloc and specifically NATO but no actual admittance occurred.​Russia responded by invading Ukraine.​​We can see the different responses by both great powers regardless of their neighbors. Both great powers felt threatened but at different stages of the national security crisis.

So under Mearsheimer's theory of great powers geopolitics, to what degrees of response is acceptable?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504263318067982336
The US estimates that Russia has lost 7,000 KIAs on the conservative side

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## Wood

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Not really, they left with a functional Afghan government in control and with dignity. They didn't run with thousands of citizens stuck there and collaborators hanging to the landing gear of transports taking off while being shot at.
> 
> If you believe the 1:1 kill ratio idea when Russians are bombing and artillery striking cities, allegedly in war crimes, then I believe the Jawans from Galwan who threw 20 PLA soldiers off a cliff with his bare hands and the Ghost of Kiev are teaming up for Ukraine.


I meant the Russo Japanese War. Think Tzar was kicked out soon after. 

As for kill ratio, I can only go with what is available in media so far. It is not anywhere close to 1:100. You can of course believe whatever floats your boat  



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504263318067982336
> The US estimates that Russia has lost 7,000 KIAs on the conservative side


Yes, it is all part of the plan


----------



## thetutle

dBSPL said:


> The Central Bank of Russia has announced that the Russian Mir card payment system can be used in Turkey to withdraw cash and pay for shopping on Türkiye İş Bankası, Ziraat Bankası and VakıfBank devices.
> 
> Russians are preparing to shop through Turkish banks.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503845091408072713


Until those Turkish banks are taken out of SWIFT.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Sanctions make Russia a puppet country of China. It is also to China's advantage considering Russia is a neighbor of China and China + Russia basically dominates The Old World.

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## CrazyZ

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504141445896323079


Mariupol has fallen? Things didn't look yesterday.


----------



## Microsoft

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502875319170387968
@LeGenD what about those Nazis?


----------



## CrazyZ

Vergennes said:


> And this is how this tank ended.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504156329862217735


What ATGM was that NLAW? Really did not see a missile in the vid.


----------



## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> Shoigu is an imbecile and should be hanged


Probably be sent to Siberia lol.


----------



## Oldman1

CrazyZ said:


> Mariupol has fallen? Things didn't look yesterday.


Not even close.


----------



## Wood




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## Oldman1

Microsoft said:


> View attachment 824791
> 
> 
> @LeGenD what about those Nazis?


The Russians would say that.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504286387230867456


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## Microsoft

Oldman1 said:


> The Russians would say that.



So you think the Nazis in Ukraine are less likely to commit a war crime than Russian army who hasn't used its full force?

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## Oldman1

Microsoft said:


> So you think the Nazis in Ukraine are less likely to commit a war crime than Russian army who hasn't used its full force?


I see a Russian Army shooting rockets and artillery rounds with abandonment then what the so called Nazis are doing for 3 weeks resisting a Russian encirclement and assault.

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## Indian Libertarian

Is there an actual counter attack or is this fluff?








Ukraine Mounts Counteroffensive to Drive Russians Back From Kyiv, Key Cities


Kyiv’s forces appeared to counterattack in the outlying towns of Irpin, Bucha and Hostomel, while Ukraine said it carried out an airstrike on the Kherson airport, which is now a Russian air base.




www.wsj.com




Recent article ~ 45 minutes ago


----------



## CrazyZ

Oldman1 said:


> Not even close.


Scanned through news reports. Looks like the defenders don't have much territory left. That destroyed tank in the vid above was a mile from the the city center.


----------



## Oldman1

Indian Libertarian said:


> Is there an actual counter attack or is this fluff?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine Mounts Counteroffensive to Drive Russians Back From Kyiv, Key Cities
> 
> 
> Kyiv’s forces appeared to counterattack in the outlying towns of Irpin, Bucha and Hostomel, while Ukraine said it carried out an airstrike on the Kherson airport, which is now a Russian air base.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wsj.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recent article ~ 45 minutes ago


Yes its true they have been doing counter attacks against the Russian forces, hence why you don't see them having succeed in encircling Kiev. They have been trying for 3 weeks now. They don't have the manpower now to do so. Maybe back then but not now with so much casualties.



CrazyZ said:


> Scanned through news reports. Looks like the defenders don't have much territory left. That destroyed tank in the vid above was a mile from the the city center.


The video shows 2 tanks destroyed, but what do I know.


----------



## Microsoft

Oldman1 said:


> I see a Russian Army shooting rockets and artillery rounds with abandonment then what the *so called* Nazis are doing for 3 weeks resisting a Russian encirclement and assault.



So what you don't see you don't believe?. Also they admit to Nazi ideology themselves, they're not "so called".


----------



## dbc

Putin Vows to Rid Russia of ‘Traitors’ While Waging Ukraine War


President Vladimir Putin warned he would cleanse Russia of the “scum and traitors” he accuses of working covertly for the U.S. and its allies, as the government steps up pressure on domestic critics of his war against Ukraine.




www.bloomberg.com

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## Oldman1

Microsoft said:


> So what you don't see you don't believe?. Also they admit to Nazi ideology themselves, they're not "so called".


The Russians like to use that Nazi thing to inspire the Russian people to justify the war in Ukraine. Denazification as they said.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504235879996534787

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## mmr

dbc said:


> Putin Vows to Rid Russia of ‘Traitors’ While Waging Ukraine War
> 
> 
> President Vladimir Putin warned he would cleanse Russia of the “scum and traitors” he accuses of working covertly for the U.S. and its allies, as the government steps up pressure on domestic critics of his war against Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bloomberg.com


putler going mad.


----------



## Microsoft

Oldman1 said:


> The Russians like to use that Nazi thing to inspire the Russian people to justify the war in Ukraine. Denazification as they said.



The Ukrainian Nazis have a history of fighting in Mariupol so it's not far fetched.

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## Oldman1

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504235879996534787


Kind of lost 2/3 of what he said until the ending part about purification and eliminating traitors.


----------



## Wood

mmr said:


> putler going mad.


More like Putin becoming Putler for real. He sounds just like him

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## Oldman1

Microsoft said:


> The Ukrainian Nazis have a history of fighting in Mariupol so it's not far fetched.


Bunch of countries have neo Nazis including Russia. This is just a very poor excuse to justify an invasion. Even in the U.S. we have neo-Nazis or white supremacists even in the U.S. military, that's not enough to invade a country for that. Same for Russians with white supremacists or far right wing or whatever they call it these days.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russia Ukraine war is proxy war between China and America. Russia is China's puppet. Ukraine's America's puppet. Ukraine is key to domination of The Old World. Who controls Ukraine, who dominates The Old World.

@F-22Raptor @Oldman1 @gambit


----------



## 8888888888888

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504052737230708736
> 
> Things are not going well for Russia when Ukraine dictates like this


So Russia will take over the country.

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## Microsoft

Oldman1 said:


> Bunch of countries have neo Nazis including Russia. This is just a very poor excuse to justify an invasion. Even in the U.S. we have neo-Nazis or white supremacists even in the U.S. military, that's not enough to invade a country for that. Same for Russians with white supremacists or far right wing or whatever they call it these days.



No one in the US army proudly discusses their Neo-Nazi facts like Azov leaders done. You're comparing something that may not even exist to a literal Nazi military force while sullying the name of US armed forces? Damn! That's some hardcore belief.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia Ukraine war is proxy war between China and America. Russia is China's puppet. Ukraine's America's puppet. Ukraine is key to domination of The Old World. Who controls Ukraine, who dominates The Old World.
> 
> @F-22Raptor @Oldman1 @gambit



Does that mean if Russia wins then China controls Ukraine?


----------



## 8888888888888

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504045300352266244
> 
> The Chinese are now throwing the Russians under the bus


That ambassador is doing his job.


----------



## khansaheeb

gambit said:


> The scuttlebutt is that Poutine fired 8 generals. We have no second confirmation at this time so we should not place too much value on this. But what if it is true? We are looking at senior army commanders, if not *THE* army commander, and senior air commanders, if not *THE* air commander. The FSB head is 'arrested', for what?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin places head of the FSB's foreign intelligence under house arrest
> 
> 
> Also arrested is Anatoly Bolyukh, Beseda's deputy, according to respected author Andrey Soldatov, who said Putin is 'truly unhappy' with the agency - which he ran before becoming president.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Three weeks into the war and still the army and the air force cannot coordinate their ops. Another rumor is that the VKS is afraid of fratricide, meaning the VKS is afraid of being shot down by the army, so the VKS do not fly unless the pilots feel safe. Coordination between friendly army and air force is called 'airspace deconfliction'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FM 3-52 Chapter 4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.globalsecurity.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Airspace decon is a *BASIC* capability and skillset. One major factor is that Russian pilots do not fly as often as US/NATO pilots do. Reportedly about 10 hrs/mth. US/NATO pilots doubled or even tripled that. The average training sortie is about 1.5 hr. If you go to the range, it will be 2 to 2.5 hr. At the range is where you learn how to ingress to a ground target, make your delivery, then egress. Along the way, you learn how to coordinate with ground controllers simulating friendly ground forces. So flying 1-2 hrs/week as how the Russian train is not enough. That is just time to takeoff, gain altitude, maybe rendezvous with an air refueler, maybe do a few touch-and-go, then land. This seems to be the bulk of the VKS fighter pilot experience.
> 
> Observers are giving the Russian military much leeway, probably too much and that is because of the perception of the Russian military as a competent and capable force, but we are looking at 3 weeks and still the Russians are struggling.
> 
> If it is true that Poutine replaced his army and air commanders, that three weeks passed mean the new commanders will have doubled the difficulties since the Ukrainians gained valuable experience fighting against the Russian military. Regardless of how this war turn out, whether Russia withdraw from Ukraine or completely take over, the Russian military will *NOT* be seen as a peer military to the US/NATO alliance.


Are you serious? -" But what if it is true?", the likely hood of anything coming out true at times of hostilities is zero.


----------



## mmr

Wood said:


> More like Putin becoming Putler for real. He sounds just like him


pdf fanboys getting excited. dear leader will now start killing his own country man lol.

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## 8888888888888

serenity said:


> This isn't exactly fairly framed. Russians never stated their goal being taking over all of Ukraine. Maybe their game here is to make it seem like and then settle for what they want, annexing certain parts of Ukraine. This allows Russia to escape the trap of occupation vs insurgency war.
> 
> Russia militarily cannot afford to be trapped in such a type of war.
> 
> Ukraine also said they wanted to compromise and reach some agreements and previously said Russian demands were too great. I suspect these are just two sides haggling over a deal and both employing haggling tactics like one would do with a vendor in a tourist area lol. Ukraine making deals and previously saying they're willing to make deals doesn't mean "Ukraine regime is not according to plan".


Russia can if they build camps


----------



## patero

Wood said:


> More like Putin becoming Putler for real. He sounds just like him


More like Stalin in this regard, it's going to be the Stalin purges 2.0. But his model of government, in particular the role of the oligarchs, is probably closer to Nazi Germany than Soviet communism. There is no party ideology in Putin's government, only Putin - 'Two legs bad, Putin good'.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Microsoft said:


> Does that mean if Russia wins then China controls Ukraine?



By proxy.


----------



## Oldman1

Microsoft said:


> No one in the US army proudly discusses their Neo-Nazi facts like Azov leaders done. You're comparing something that may not even exist to a literal Nazi military force while sullying the name of US armed forces? Damn! That's some hardcore belief.


So you only use a small unit called Azov as an example or representation of the whole entire Ukrainian military along with the militias or Territorial troops? Perhaps along with the Ukrainian government? Because if thats the view, you might as well trying to Denazify the whole country then because you have a long way to go.

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## 8888888888888

dBSPL said:


> Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov:
> 
> “(Ukrainian crisis) Turkey follows a pragmatic line, its approach is extremely balanced. It did not participate in unilateral sanctions against Russia.”
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504082043344506883


Well US did attempted a Coup against the current Turkish government so not surprised over this.

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## 8888888888888

Meengla said:


> A ceasefire should be coming up within weeks if not days based on Lavrov and Zellenskyy latest comments. Perhaps Zellensky knows that the West will fight Russia to the last Ukrainian and Russia knows that Russia greatly miscalculated. The two nations are kins for the most part. They know each other.
> If Russia manages to block off the sea access for Ukraine and take even a few dozen miles in eastern Ukraine and place Russian weapons targeting Kiev, such a North Korea does to Seoul, and preferably, for Russia, make the Dnieper River as the front line then a big Russian win.
> We need to understand this: Russia maybe a pale shadow of its former power but as long as it is willing to take losses to gain territory and as long as it can use its vast natural resources, Russia will more than survive. And it is possible it may even thrive in short to medium term....


That Ukraine president has to die in order to ahead peace. He is like hitler due up his Neo nazi links.

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## Oldman1

8888888888888 said:


> That Ukraine president has to die in order to ahead peace. He is like hitler due up his Neo nazi links.


I'm starting to wonder who is the real Hitler.


----------



## Wood




----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Oldman1 said:


> I'm starting to wonder who is the real Hitler.



Nobody is Hitler.


----------



## Microsoft

Oldman1 said:


> So you only use a small unit called Azov as an example or representation of the whole entire Ukrainian military along with the militias or Territorial troops?



I believe in "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere". Also...why defend Nazis even if there is only 1?



Oldman1 said:


> Perhaps along with the Ukrainian government? Because if thats the view, you might as well trying to Denazify the whole country then because you have a long way to go.



Who knows what the new borders will be like. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## 8888888888888

I


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504102771129266183


 I guess Russia will give weapons to Iraq freedom fighters now.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504197352189485064

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## Oldman1

Microsoft said:


> I believe in "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere". Also...why defend Nazis even if there is only 1?
> 
> 
> 
> Who knows what the new borders will be like. 🤷‍♂️


Yeah I'm starting to think Putin thinks there are Nazis within his own government and among his own people which some are true. And who knows, as you said, what the new borders going to look like.



8888888888888 said:


> I
> 
> I guess Russia will give weapons to Iraq freedom fighters now.


The Russians are having a hard time supplying themselves then to think about arming Iraqi freedom fighters. Actually I need to take that back, the Russians need to stop supplying Ukraine with their new tanks and other vehicles.

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## thetutle

off topic.


----------



## Clutch



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## CAPRICORN-88

From what I read, 14,000 Ukrainian forces are now trapped in Mariupol. 

Encircled by the Russians soldiers outside of the city, these desperate soldiers have taken defensive position in empty apartments and buildings. 

The militias and army of the breakaway Republics are the one involved in the fighting aided by Russia artilleries and air cover.

The situation of the Ukrainian Forces is very critical as they are fast running out of ammunitions, food and water. 

Hint: Why did Zalensky dismissed the Ukrainian Generals in charge of the Eastern Operation if they are doing so well as per propaganda by the US and the West. 

At the end, Zalensky will just have to agree to comply with the Minsk II agreement and signed Ukraine into neutrality. 

It is stupidity beyond words. 

The US and NATO got what they wanted. 
Economic sanctions against Russia and to stop Nordstream II.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503659540474208256


----------



## Oldman1

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503659540474208256


No casualty updates?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504118944478773250

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## kingQamaR

Microsoft said:


> I believe in "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere". Also...why defend Nazis even if there is only 1?
> 
> 
> 
> Who knows what the new borders will be like. 🤷‍♂️



Today putin wants a bit of land. Tomorrow he'll want a bit more. Making a deal now will set a terrible precedent for the future.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504070763380412416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504160034057560070

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504311062954455041

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504311257674883072

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## kingQamaR

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504118944478773250



Surprised? I think most are. Without the threat of Nukes, the Russian military is a joke. They are lucky Ukraine does not have a large number of attack aircraft or long-range standoff weapons. They could have been provided but no one wanted to offend Russia..


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504101543305674755

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Microsoft

kingQamaR said:


> Today putin wants a bit of land. Tomorrow he'll want a bit more. Making a deal now will set a terrible precedent for the future.



He can't take more - more (to the west) is NATO. Russia can't even dream of attacking NATO without using nukes which would mean they get destroyed too.

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## kingQamaR

beast89 said:


> Yes they should fight to the death with Russians. They saw that wahabi/salafi ideology creeping into their land and knew it would be detrimental to their people.



Be very careful, if Chinese communists discover you are on here as a Islamic scholar you will end up in a re-education camp! 

Chechnya Lost their own country, and now they crawl on their bellies for Putin. 

Losers …

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## The SC

kingQamaR said:


> Surprised? I think most are. Without the threat of Nukes, the Russian military is a joke. They are lucky Ukraine does not have a large number of attack aircraft or long-range standoff weapons. They could have been provided but no one wanted to offend Russia..


What is agreed upon is that the Russian performance is not worthy of the status of the second most powerful army in the world..But at the same time, let us remember that the balance of power is not measured by the performance of armored units and mechanized infantry, but by other strategic factors.

The biggest problem that the Russians fell into was the incompatibility of their combat concepts with the type of war they entered. NATO trained and armed Ukraine not to be able to repel a military invasion, but to be a trap and quagmire for the Russian army..

That is why It is difficult to understand, for example, how helicopters and vehicles were stacked at Kherson Airport, far from its control, without adequate security operations or field fortifications, and the airport is known for its geographical coordinates, and any missile launcher can target it from a range of tens of kilometers!..

Also, heavy vehicles were dropped at Antonov Airport, near Kyiv. It is not know what they were expecting other than bombing the airport, whether the enemy knew the coordinates, type and size of the forces or not..

The forces that storm the cities are inexperienced, their tactics are poor, and there is no security for supply convoys..

The Russian performance is worthy of a major war against NATO, where there is no place but for great firepower, and it does not matter to control the cities as long as they can be surrounded and circumvented and threaten them with surrender or mass destruction..

On the other hand, the Russians also did not advance their best forces, nor their latest weapons, and even the opening strikes of the war were modest, it seems there is a saving in the use of qualitative weapons..

The Russians are using the oldest in their arsenal!!!

And, by the way, the Russian ground forces do not constitute all the forces deployed in Ukraine..

The Russian forces that were noticed in Ukraine are the following:


1- Russian National Guard








Camouflage







The Chechen forces are affiliated with the National Guard, not the Russian army, and this particular branch is strongly involved in the current operations!!!







2- DNR forces

They are the Donbas separatist forces, they number about 44 thousand and are the spearhead on the southern and eastern front..












3- Russian Airborne Forces VDV

They are very active in the Kyiv and Kharkiv fronts, where they have carried out many special tasks behind the Ukrainian lines, most of which have been successful, including the control of Antonov Airport, for example..












The armored forces participating in the battle are difficult to determine to which service they belong in Russia, but there are some factors indicating that they are newly established forces and not professional forces!!!


Final note:

The uniform of the Russian ground forces is the digital flora camo known as *EMR*, which is generalized to the Russian infantry and mechanized forces.. there are many variants,,

https://kula-tactical.com/what-camo-does-russia-use

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## jhungary

Genghis khan1 said:


> Same edited video is circulating on this tread before stating Russia drop missile or something.
> 
> Too much fake new/videos are out there.


There is an "unedited" version of the video you can literally see Russian soldier shooting all these people down. 

They can't post that on Twitter because of the gore and violence. But you can search for the complete uncut version online.


----------



## KAL-EL

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia Ukraine war is proxy war between China and America. Russia is China's puppet. Ukraine's America's puppet. Ukraine is key to domination of The Old World. Who controls Ukraine, who dominates The Old World.
> 
> @F-22Raptor @Oldman1 @gambit



Well if it wasn't before, Russia is certainly China's b***h now.

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## jhungary

Foinikas said:


> First of all why do you call him "Poutine"?
> It sounds like a French word.
> 
> Second,since you talk about realpolitiks,
> the pro-Russian government of Yanukovich was toppled by riots of ultranationalist and pro-Western political parties and organizations.
> 
> There's no moral high ground in the West's fanatical anti-Russian policies and encouraging of Ukraine to take on Russia even before the war started.
> You could have made it clear and agreed with Russia that Ukraine should be a neutral country and solve this.


just said this on the other post. Yanukovich government were *NEVER* toppled.

Yanukovich is a minority government (He did not get over 51% on the 2nd poll, he got 48.7), he can only form a government because he entered a power sharing deal with Yulia Tymoshenko's BYuT (who get 45.2) and also the parliament (Party of Regions get 30% while fatherland (Which is BYuT after taking in some other party) get 25.5)

Fatherland pulled the power sharing deal in October/November when Yanukovich government decree the suspension of EU ascension agreement. And dissolving the Parliament (Yanukovich need Fatherland's 25.5% of parliament member to be able to function as a government) and trigger a election, and that is what triggered the Euromaidan.

When Maidan began, Yanukovich government has already dissolved, and while technically he was still the president, but the government is gone and he is only there as a care taker. He fled because he knows he cannot win another election, seeing the reason why he "Won" in 2010 is because of the former President (won 2004 election) Viktor Yushchenko (Another Pro-EU president) and infighting with Julia Tymoshenko to begin with and also suspected election fraud.

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## ProudPak

jhungary said:


> There are only 2 problems.
> 
> 1.) US is the biggest Oil Production country in the world. Not Iran and Russia, and also US Dollars is the world dominance reserve currency, not Yuan or Ruble or whatever currency Iran is using. It's one thing you settle the oil payment with local currency, it's another thing to be able to use them. Which mean even if you settle your payment with Yuan or Ruble (which is pretty dumb), you will still need to exchange it to US Dollars for Saudi or any country that are trading them.
> 
> 2.) It's a misconception that Petrodollar is the reason of US Dollars dominance. The world Oil market is estimated at 342 trillions dollars a year, while this alone is impressive (Roughly 14 times US GDP every year), this is a drop in the bucket if you compare to the sheer trade volume in US Dollars with SWIFT alone, it was estimated by SWIFT that 5-6 trillions worth of USD settlement in a single day, which give you roughly 2 quadrillion (that's 2,000 trillions) USD being settle every year. And that's only SWIFT.
> 
> This is what and why US dollar have its power
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How America's Use of Economic Warfare Could Spark a Currency Crisis | Michael Maharrey
> 
> 
> In response to the U.S. government's weaponization of the dollar, a number of countries, including China, Russia, and Iran, have taken steps to limit their dependence on the dominant currency and have even been working to establish alternative payment systems.
> 
> 
> 
> fee.org


Yes right now almost all transactions are in usd. However history shows the nighty fall when they become too big for their boots. America is way too big for its boots. The foundation has been laid by this war


----------



## mmr

KAL-EL said:


> Well if it wasn't before, Russia is certainly China's b***h now.


putler's legacy lol


----------



## jhungary

ProudPak said:


> Yes right now almost all transactions are in usd. However history shows the nighty fall when they become too big for their boots. America is way too big for its boots. The foundation has been laid by this war



Well, this war on the other hand show how strong is US Dollar. Not the weakness.

Economy of Russia crashed overnight because US refused to allow Russia Central Bank to exchange USD, and freezing all the oversea Russian central bank asset (Estimated at 300 billions) which left Russia holding their rouble and gold alone. You cannot exchange those gold or oil or any resource because you cannot issue either buy/sell order from overseas, which majority uses SWIFT, the only logical way is for Russia to trade with China with a tangible trade. (eg Oil for Electronic). But how much can you trade tangibly? And what happen if Russia want something China don't have? IC Chip for example?

Just because China and Russia (or if you bring along Iran or Syria as well, it wouldn't matter much) promote regional trade, that does not mean they can dethrone USD status as world reserve, because unless China is willing to use Ruble domestically and Russia is willing to use Yuan domestically, it did not change the fact that you cannot use someone else's denomination in your own country, which mean you need to exchange it somehow.

And it would be stupid at least for China to start using Ruble as official denomination. At least right now it's not feastible.


----------



## jhungary

RIP Big Mac (1990-2022)

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jhungary

Russia mocked after tit-for-tat sanctions target wrong Joe Biden – ‘Sanctioned his Dad’​Moscow sanctioned 13 US officials in total, banning them from entering Russia in a reciprocal move following a similar move against Russian officials from Washington. However, White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki, who was among those sanctioned, pointed out that the Kremlin had mistakenly sanctioned President Biden’s later father after they removed the “junior” suffix from his name.

None of us are planning tourist trips to Russia, none of us have bank accounts that we won't be able to access, so we will forge ahead.”

he current US president's full name is Joseph Robinette Biden Jr.

President Biden’s son Hunter, Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Defence Secretary Lloyd Austin were also among those sanctioned.



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https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...s-mig-29-joe-biden-vladimir-putin-ukraine-war
US v Russia! Poland transfers ALL its jets as war takes to the skies - boost for Ukraine



https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1580394/Russia-war-British-sniper-Ukraine-Putin-foreign-legion
'Taliban on steroids' British sniper in Ukraine says Putin being 'absolutely hammered'



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The Number Of Refugees Fleeing Ukraine Continues To Rise Exponentially.Australia For UNHCR



https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...ne-s-navy-cheering-Russian-war-ship-Black-Sea
'Enemy has retreated again' Cheering Ukrainian navy hits Russian war ship in huge blow



https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...aine-nato-television-censorship-kaskad-tv-spt
Russian media 'behead' Vladimir Putin during TV address: 'The guilty will be punished'



 
by Taboola 
 

Russia mocked after tit-for-tat sanctions target wrong Joe Biden – ‘Sanctioned his Dad’​RUSSIA has been mocked for sanctioning the wrong Joe Biden in a hilarious cock-up.​By SEAN MELEADY
01:44, Wed, Mar 16, 2022 | UPDATED: 07:47, Wed, Mar 16, 2022
2



















Biden administration sees Putin as 'partner' claims Bartiromo​










7 seconds of 1 minute, 24 secondsVolume 0%
























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Moscow sanctioned 13 US officials in total, banning them from entering Russia in a reciprocal move following a similar move against Russian officials from Washington. However, White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki, who was among those sanctioned, pointed out that the Kremlin had mistakenly sanctioned President Biden’s later father after they removed the “junior” suffix from his name.

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She said: “President Biden is a 'junior' so they may have sanctioned his Dad, may he rest in peace.

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by Taboola

“None of us are planning tourist trips to Russia, none of us have bank accounts that we won't be able to access, so we will forge ahead.”


The current US president's full name is Joseph Robinette Biden Jr.

President Biden’s son Hunter, Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Defence Secretary Lloyd Austin were also among those sanctioned.





Russia have accidentally sanctioned the wrong Joe Biden (Image: Getty Images )




Secretary of State Antony Blinken has also been sanctioned (Image: Getty Images )

According to a statement from the Russian Foreign Ministry, the sanctions were the result of a “Russophobic” policy followed by the Biden Administration.

They said: “It is the consequence of the extremely Russophobic policy pursued by the current US administration.”
Following the Russian invasion of Ukraine last month, the Biden Administration has banned Russian President Vladimir Putin and Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov from the USA.

They have also imposed a series of economic sanctions that have effectively left Russia cut off from the outside world.

Russia also put a number of top US officials on its "stop list" including America's top general, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley, National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, and CIA Director William Burns.

The Canadian Prime Minister has also been added to the list and sanctioned.

The Russian Foreign Ministry also said it would announce additional sanctions against “Russophobic” US lawmakers, businessmen and celebrities.

Moscow did not specify the nature of the sanctions which it labelled “personal sanctions” and a “stop list”.









Russia mocked after tit-for-tat sanctions target wrong Joe Biden


RUSSIA has been mocked for sanctioning the wrong Joe Biden in a hilarious cock-up.




www.express.co.uk





This is how NOT to do sanction....

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## gambit

jhungary said:


> RIP Big Mac (1990-2022)


The last time I had a Big Mac was literally yrs ago. How many yrs ago, I do not know. But ever since I found Five Guys, I stopped going anywhere else. Five Guys make the best burger. Spider-Man is Five Guys burger. Hawkeye is In-And-Out burger. And they argues about it.

But it is interesting, though. For so many here who railed against US, how much of US are in their countries at the cultural level? I love Italian and JPNese food, but MD are there as well and MD make good moolah there. I will admit am shocked at the Russian response at the coming loss of the American McDonald's burger, a culinary abomination that it is.

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## KAL-EL

gambit said:


> The last time I had a Big Mac was literally yrs ago. How many yrs ago, I do not know. But ever since I found Five Guys, I stopped going anywhere else. Five Guys make the best burger. Spider-Man is Five Guys burger. Hawkeye is In-And-Out burger. And they argues about it.
> 
> But it is interesting, though. For so many here who railed against US, how much of US are in their countries at the cultural level? I love Italian and JPNese food, but MD are there as well and MD make good moolah there. I will admit am shocked at the Russian response at the coming loss of the American McDonald's burger, a culinary abomination that it is.



I wonder if they have KFC, Popeyes Chicken or Pizza Hut franchises?


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504124118240747523


----------



## thetutle

Elvin said:


> Would you speak this way about American generals in Iraq and Afghanistan?


What is your problem? whose side are you on anyway?


----------



## Apollon

Experts say Putin now switchs to plan C.

Plan A was to quickly take all of Ukraine and install a puppet regime - failed...

Plan B was to achieve this with more brutal actions - failed 

Now Putin switched to Plan C. Terrorize the people and cause as much damage as possible. We already see mass executions of civilians. The russians attack hospitals, children and schools. Same tactics were done by them in Chechenya and Syria, now its just open to see.


----------



## LeGenD

leviathan said:


> Lol Your overpriced shiity drone is so bad that even your step dad UK can't afford more than 10. Pathetic


US was not willing to sell its sophisticated drones to other countries until Trump administration decided to relax terms and conditions for sales.

For perspective:









United Arab Emirates


Armed Drones in the Middle East




drones.rusi.org





Overprised shitty drones? You have no idea, John Snow.









China is Flooding the Middle East With Cheap Drones


Throughout the war on terror, the U.S. shattered norms on unmanned execution. Now the technology is spreading throughout the region.




fpif.org







Tai Hai Chen said:


> More Russian men heading to real life training. Including T-72B3M which is on par with M1A2.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504126097646133251


T-72B3M is not even remotely close to M1A2.

Not even that paper tiger Armata which is nowhere to be seen in a war.

Armata is War Thunder video game champion. I give you this.

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> The last time I had a Big Mac was literally yrs ago. How many yrs ago, I do not know. But ever since I found Five Guys, I stopped going anywhere else. Five Guys make the best burger. Spider-Man is Five Guys burger. Hawkeye is In-And-Out burger. And they argues about it.
> 
> But it is interesting, though. For so many here who railed against US, how much of US are in their countries at the cultural level? I love Italian and JPNese food, but MD are there as well and MD make good moolah there. I will admit am shocked at the Russian response at the coming loss of the American McDonald's burger, a culinary abomination that it is.


My Last McD is the day before yesterday, I still go to Maccers (As it was known here) and that's because there aren't any good Burger joint here in Oz. There used to be a joint here where i lived called "You, Me and Beef" but it was closed down after COVID....

Anyway, as the man said, McD is not just a fast food joint, for a lot of Russian (I personally knows a lot of Russian and Ukrainian) It mean a taste of Western Value, many of us think this is just greasy junk food, but for them, it's a connection to the west.


----------



## gambit

We are now three weeks into the Russia-Ukraine war. *Where is the VKS?*



https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA260946.pdf



The most resounding Soviet affirmation of the dominant role played by air power in Desert Storm came barely two weeks following the cease-fire. Not surprisingly, it emerged *from an interview with the chief of the main staff of the Soviet air force, Lieutenant General A. Malyukov.* After suggesting that the war had constituted "a textbook example of what air supremacy means-both for the country that gained it and for the country ceding it to the opponent," the interviewer asked the general whether he felt the war had reflected a practical application of the American "Air-Land Battle" doctrine.​​In a reply that showed much perspicacity, *General Malyukov answered:* "I do not think so. *There was no classical 'air-land battle.'* Why? The point is that this war-and here General Dugan comes to mind-was obviously conceived from the outset as an air war to *wear out the opponent by means of air strikes,* *disorganize his command systems, destroy his air defenses, and weaken the ground forces' striking power*. In terms of the choice of objectives, it was more a case of a classic air offensive. And these objectives were achieved. Broadly speaking, *this is the first time we have seen a war in which aviation took care almost entirely of all the main tasks *[emphasis added]."​
Basically, what Malyukov said 31 yrs ago that US airpower came to %90 of forcing an enemy into submission, that US airpower %90 scrapped the concept of 'air-land battle'. Or more like %90 air and %10 land. Apologies to our Army and Marines brothers and sisters. What have the VKS done for itself for the past 30 yrs? Apparently, with the last three weeks showing the world: *NOTHING*. The Su-57 does not qualify as an achievement. When this war is over, the Su-57 will be relegated to the museum.

With the Russia-Ukraine war, the world was looking for a Desert Storm replacement. Instead, the world was forced to return to Desert Storm as example of how far airpower have come, how much US airpower can do, and that the world's second air force failed by a miserable margin even just to meet the par set by US airpower, let alone hope to surpass. Thirty yrs passed and all the VKS done was produced one new platform and when the air force was called into battle, it failed its ground forces brothers.

It is not just any one observer of this war but of the entire world that the time for being generous to the VKS is over. Maybe it is time for all the VKS generals to commit _seppuku_ by impaling themselves on the pitot probes of their jets.

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## jhungary

KAL-EL said:


> I wonder if they have KFC, Popeyes Chicken or Pizza Hut franchises?


In Russia? They have Burger King, KFC (you can see both in that video), and I am pretty sure they have Pizzahuts and Dominos.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504276540242403328


----------



## gambit

For anyone who watched Zelensky appealed to the US for assistance, think about this for a moment...

Does it matter *NOW* if Ukraine is NATO member or not? The man asked a foreign power for help against Russia, but not only that, he asked the body that is representative of the people, the US Congress, just one degree or one election cycle away from the American people. Does NATO membership really matter?

If Poutine withdraw on a negotiated settlement that have Ukraine neutral, does it mean Poutine will go: "Wheeew...Thank God that we have a neutral state at our border". No. Everyone will know that the new Ukrainian neutrality status is meaningless, that it is fiction. In being virtually in front of a representative body of a foreign power, Zelensky put Ukraine into a virtual alliance with that foreign power, and Ukrainians approved. By invading and doing all the atrocities, Poutine pushed Ukraine further to the West.

So there are two choices for Poutine...

Continue with the brutal and bloody suppression and hopefully an occupation of Ukraine. Or acknowledge defeat and withdraw. Either way, it is the end for Poutine.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504371390828486664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504369712590995462

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## RescueRanger

Type59 said:


> Russia should mobilise it's reserves and put industry in war mode. NATO is pouring more and more weapon systems into Ukraine.
> 
> Putin got himself into a sticky situation, he has options but is he willing to exercise them.








The wheels have come off the “Special Operation”. The Russian advance has stalled on all fronts. 

As they say in Pakistan “It’s Chitrol (trashing) time”.

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> We are now three weeks into the Russia-Ukraine war. *Where is the VKS?*
> 
> 
> 
> https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA260946.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> The most resounding Soviet affirmation of the dominant role played by air power in Desert Storm came barely two weeks following the cease-fire. Not surprisingly, it emerged *from an interview with the chief of the main staff of the Soviet air force, Lieutenant General A. Malyukov.* After suggesting that the war had constituted "a textbook example of what air supremacy means-both for the country that gained it and for the country ceding it to the opponent," the interviewer asked the general whether he felt the war had reflected a practical application of the American "Air-Land Battle" doctrine.​​In a reply that showed much perspicacity, *General Malyukov answered:* "I do not think so. *There was no classical 'air-land battle.'* Why? The point is that this war-and here General Dugan comes to mind-was obviously conceived from the outset as an air war to *wear out the opponent by means of air strikes,* *disorganize his command systems, destroy his air defenses, and weaken the ground forces' striking power*. In terms of the choice of objectives, it was more a case of a classic air offensive. And these objectives were achieved. Broadly speaking, *this is the first time we have seen a war in which aviation took care almost entirely of all the main tasks *[emphasis added]."​
> Basically, what Malyukov said 31 yrs ago that US airpower came to %90 of forcing an enemy into submission, that US airpower %90 scrapped the concept of 'air-land battle'. Or more like %90 air and %10 land. Apologies to our Army and Marines brothers and sisters. What have the VKS done for itself for the past 30 yrs? Apparently, with the last three weeks showing the world: *NOTHING*. The Su-57 does not qualify as an achievement. When this war is over, the Su-57 will be relegated to the museum.
> 
> With the Russia-Ukraine war, the world was looking for a Desert Storm replacement. Instead, the world was forced to return to Desert Storm as example of how far airpower have come, how much US airpower can do, and that the world's second air force failed by a miserable margin even just to meet the par set by US airpower, let alone hope to surpass. Thirty yrs passed and all the VKS done was produced one new platform and when the air force was called into battle, it failed its ground forces brothers.
> 
> It is not just any one observer of this war but of the entire world that the time for being generous to the VKS is over. Maybe it is time for all the VKS generals to commit _seppuku_ by impaling themselves on the pitot probes of their jets.


Was asking myself some question also. Why VKS failed to close the Ukrainian Airspace?

Better yet, I have another question for you.

*Why Zelenskyy still able to broadcast his speech/meet virtually to Western Leader?*

I mean, look at his video, he did US Congress this morning, Canadian Parliament 2 days ago, British Parliament earlier this week, and EU and NATO last week. I am not saying Russia should be able to assassinate him (that would actually be bad for Russia as this will make him a martyr) But Russia should have put pressure on him, and put him on the move, they can also jam their communication, taking out internet or TV infrastructure.

Why all that was not done?

That leads to 2 conclusion.

1.) Russia is Culminating - They have no resource left to pursuit those measure.
2.) Russia military is not fighting this war - Putin is behind all the decision. Essentially he is doing a Hitler, he is no military man, he don't process proper military knowledge, if Russia Military is running this war, all these will basically priority number 1. Which mean Russia is entering dangerous territories here. A person have no wartime experience in charge of the entire operation....

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## LeGenD

Huffal said:


> Tai hai chen is bad, but at least he actually posted something on topic. Beny has been doing NOTHING but derail. Thats all he does in the threads hes in. How is he not banned?


Bro, Tai Hai Chen ability to stay on topic is time-tested (NOT). Trust me.

I penalized Beny in this thread before but he came back after serving his term. His WILL to troll is strong and transcends many a stick.

But worry not - *I* will decide who posts here (in PUTIN voice). Putin commands it.

@RescueRanger

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## RescueRanger

dbc said:


> Putin Vows to Rid Russia of ‘Traitors’ While Waging Ukraine War
> 
> 
> President Vladimir Putin warned he would cleanse Russia of the “scum and traitors” he accuses of working covertly for the U.S. and its allies, as the government steps up pressure on domestic critics of his war against Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bloomberg.com


The man is unhinged.



KAL-EL said:


> I wonder if they have KFC, Popeyes Chicken or Pizza Hut franchises?


They have Yum Foods there so that would include KFC, Pizza Hut.


----------



## Amliunion

Translation:🙏🙏🙏


The bomb shelter under the Drama Theater in Mariupol survived, people came out alive, and the rubble began to be dismantled - Ukrainian People's Deputy Serhiy Taruta


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504372637660860416


----------



## Amliunion

Translation: APU abandon equipment, retreating near Kharkov In the area of the village of Bobrovka, which is located one and a half kilometers from the Kharkov district, retreating units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine abandoned their BTR-4 Bucephalus



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504372609852616704


----------



## jhungary

This is a very good video explaining what happened on Day 21 of the war.






Note : This guy used to be with Fox, and he is somehow Pro-Russian (And you will know if you were watching his previous video)


----------



## Messerschmitt

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504210748746215424


----------



## LeGenD

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504225451321053186


Retire him already.

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## jhungary

Messerschmitt said:


> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504210748746215424


just watched this on Sky News....This is really bad..


----------



## Primus

LeGenD said:


> Bro, Tai Hai Chen ability to stay on topic is time-tested (NOT). Trust me.
> 
> I penalized Beny in this thread before but he came back after serving his term. His WILL to troll is strong and transcends many a stick.
> 
> But worry not - *I* will decide who posts here (in PUTIN voice). Putin commands it.
> 
> @RescueRanger


Wilco comrade

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## nangyale

LeGenD said:


> Retire him already.


Everybody has their fantasies, you shouldn't be picking on an old man for his.

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## LeGenD

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Chechens have Russian citizenship. Plus, Chechen guys have the hots for Russian girls.


@Huffal 

And slowly but surely....



nangyale said:


> Everybody has their fantasies, you shouldn't be picking on an old man for his.


My apologies, good Sir.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504381662834180096

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## Hassan Al-Somal



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## nufix

Messerschmitt said:


> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504210748746215424



Damn, that was a baby. I am not sure if Russians are exposed to this and if they do, I wonder what they will think of this! This is beyond madness.

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## Primus

LeGenD said:


> @Huffal
> 
> And slowly but surely....


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504385328399986691

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504387879983886341


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## gambit

jhungary said:


> Was asking myself some question also. Why VKS failed to close the Ukrainian Airspace?
> 
> Better yet, I have another question for you.
> 
> *Why Zelenskyy still able to broadcast his speech/meet virtually to Western Leader?*
> 
> I mean, look at his video, he did US Congress this morning, Canadian Parliament 2 days ago, British Parliament earlier this week, and EU and NATO last week. I am not saying Russia should be able to assassinate him (that would actually be bad for Russia as this will make him a martyr) But Russia should have put pressure on him, and put him on the move, they can also jam their communication, taking out internet or TV infrastructure.
> 
> Why all that was not done?
> 
> That leads to 2 conclusion.
> 
> 1.) Russia is Culminating - They have no resource left to pursuit those measure.
> 2.) Russia military is not fighting this war - Putin is behind all the decision. Essentially he is doing a Hitler, he is no military man, he don't process proper military knowledge, if Russia Military is running this war, all these will basically priority number 1. Which mean Russia is entering dangerous territories here. A person have no wartime experience in charge of the entire operation....


In DC, I had so many heated discussions with my Air Force friends about the VKS. A lot of pizzas and booze, mine is bourbon. I am the most generous of the bunch, as well as the oldest, and I fought for the VKS at as many turn as possible. But I was outnumbered and out-argued. 

*Point 1.* That the VKS reached its logistical limits. Then who the hell told the generals they had enough to prosecute the war? Back in Desert Storm, we never ran out of 'bullets'. We had jets returned from a sortie, taxied in, refueled, re-armed, then taxied out, only to return to change ordnance, and we never failed. I literally had my jet changed from ground (all bombs) to air (all missiles) sortie within five minutes of hot refuel because of one phone call.

*Point 2.* This is my favorite.

As to why Zelensky was able to broadcast, I lean more towards the technical. It seems Poutine failed to anticipate Elon Musk and his satellite link stations. To cut Poutine some slack, I do not think anyone could have anticipated Elon Musk. For something as valuable as your president talking directly to the US Congress or the Canadian parliament or whoever outside Ukraine, you better make sure your president have the best connection possible as it could be his only chance. Did Musk do a James Bond 'Q' and somehow gave Zelensky a secure interweb connection no matter where and under what condition? Those virtual meetings were not secrets. So if Russian 'hackers' could not interrupt, maybe the best of of them were busy trying to scam money instead of being in the service of their country.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504368242705448960


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## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> What is agreed upon is that the Russian performance is not worthy of the status of the second most powerful army in the world..But at the same time, let us remember that the balance of power is not measured by the performance of armored units and mechanized infantry, but by other strategic factors.
> 
> The biggest problem that the Russians fell into was the incompatibility of their combat concepts with the type of war they entered. NATO trained and armed Ukraine not to be able to repel a military invasion, but to be a trap and quagmire for the Russian army..
> 
> That is why It is difficult to understand, for example, how helicopters and vehicles were stacked at Kherson Airport, far from its control, without adequate security operations or field fortifications, and the airport is known for its geographical coordinates, and any missile launcher can target it from a range of tens of kilometers!..
> 
> Also, heavy vehicles were dropped at Antonov Airport, near Kyiv. It is not know what they were expecting other than bombing the airport, whether the enemy knew the coordinates, type and size of the forces or not..
> 
> The forces that storm the cities are inexperienced, their tactics are poor, and there is no security for supply convoys..
> 
> The Russian performance is worthy of a major war against NATO, where there is no place but for great firepower, and it does not matter to control the cities as long as they can be surrounded and circumvented and threaten them with surrender or mass destruction..
> 
> On the other hand, the Russians also did not advance their best forces, nor their latest weapons, and even the opening strikes of the war were modest, it seems there is a saving in the use of qualitative weapons..
> 
> The Russians are using the oldest in their arsenal!!!
> 
> And, by the way, the Russian ground forces do not constitute all the forces deployed in Ukraine..
> 
> The Russian forces that were noticed in Ukraine are the following:
> 
> 
> 1- Russian National Guard
> 
> 
> View attachment 824805
> 
> 
> Camouflage
> 
> View attachment 824806
> 
> 
> 
> The Chechen forces are affiliated with the National Guard, not the Russian army, and this particular branch is strongly involved in the current operations!!!
> 
> View attachment 824808
> 
> 
> 
> 2- DNR forces
> 
> They are the Donbas separatist forces, they number about 44 thousand and are the spearhead on the southern and eastern front..
> 
> View attachment 824809
> 
> 
> View attachment 824810
> 
> 
> 
> 3- Russian Airborne Forces VDV
> 
> They are very active in the Kyiv and Kharkiv fronts, where they have carried out many special tasks behind the Ukrainian lines, most of which have been successful, including the control of Antonov Airport, for example..
> 
> View attachment 824812
> 
> 
> View attachment 824813
> 
> 
> 
> The armored forces participating in the battle are difficult to determine to which service they belong in Russia, but there are some factors indicating that they are newly established forces and not professional forces!!!
> 
> 
> Final note:
> 
> The uniform of the Russian ground forces is the digital flora camo known as *EMR*, which is generalized to the Russian infantry and mechanized forces.. there are many variants,,
> 
> https://kula-tactical.com/what-camo-does-russia-use
> 
> View attachment 824816




Another group that is not listed is the LPR (Lugansk People's Republic) forces. 








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503320065164591109

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504128596293689347


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504387621849636871

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## Ich

nangyale said:


> Everybody has their fantasies, you shouldn't be picking on an old man for his.



But...but...i thought Biden likes to sniff little girls?


----------



## Foinikas

gambit said:


> Sure you are not.
> 
> 
> So now we can put John Mearsheimer's theory of great powers geopolitics to the test where, for the sake of discussion in this little corner of the interweb, we will legitimize his theory as valid justification to respond under the national security umbrella. We have two relatively contemporary real world situations.
> 
> *Situation 1:*
> The US is a great power and is the leader of the democracy bloc.​Cuba is a neighbor and is a member of the communist bloc, not of the Warsaw Pact in particular, but of the communist bloc in general.​Cuba hosts nuclear weapons from the Soviet Union, the leader of the communist bloc.​The US responded with a blockade of Cuba.​The US negotiated with the Soviet Union for a successful settlement.​The Soviet Union withdraw the nuclear weapons.​The US ended the blockade.​
> *Situation 2:*
> Russia was once a Soviet state, leader of the Soviet Union, and leader of the communist bloc.​Russia today is a great power and is no member or leader of any bloc.​Ukraine was once a Soviet state, not an allied country but a member of the Soviet Union who had full jurisdiction over Ukraine.​Ukraine today is an independent country next to Russia and is no member of any bloc.​Ukraine expressed an interest in being a member of the democratic bloc and specifically NATO but no actual admittance occurred.​Russia responded by invading Ukraine.​​We can see the different responses by both great powers regardless of their neighbors. Both great powers felt threatened but at different stages of the national security crisis.
> 
> So under Mearsheimer's theory of great powers geopolitics, to what degrees of response is acceptable?


Why are you so obsessed with Mearsheimer? You're stuck talking about him because someone mentioned him like 10-20 pages earlier. 

And yes,I'm not a communist. On the contrary. I'm everything communists despise actually. Greek Orthodox and romantic pro-monarchist 😋 

People don't have to be communists to oppose Western invasions.

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## Vergennes

A Ukrainian Town Deals Russia One of the War’s Most Decisive Routs​








A Ukrainian Town Deals Russia One of the War’s Most Decisive Routs


In the two-day battle of Voznesensk, local volunteers and the military repelled the invaders, who fled leaving behind armor and dead soldiers. ‘They had no orders for what to do if they are defeated.’




www.wsj.com

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## dBSPL

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504381662834180096


Congrats to the Russian army, they finally managed to shoot down 1 of them. 

Even if the crashed aircraft made just one successful sortie, it caused more damage than its material value to the Russian army. And while one party loses its vehicle, the other party loses its personnel. That's the frustrating advantage of these tactical UAV systems.

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## Hassan Al-Somal



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## Apollon

Crazy footage of a russian troop transporter hit with Panzerfaust. You see its disabelled and smashs off road at end. 






Russians really throw their soldiers into meat grinder


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504398328112594955


----------



## LeGenD

Foinikas said:


> Big enough to win an election.
> 
> View attachment 824780
> 
> 
> View attachment 824779
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't have the chance yet.
> 
> But didn't USA try to change the government in Cuba as well? And I'm not a communist. I'm just talking about the double-standards.
> 
> Ukraine was off-limits for the West. But you had USA,Britain and a lot of NATO and EU leaders trying to make Ukraine into an American protectorate.
> 
> If Mexico had joined the Warsaw Pact,would you have felt ok with that? If Canada had joined the Warsaw Pact let's say,would you have tolerated that?



Now take a deeper look:









2014 Ukrainian presidential election - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org













2019 Ukrainian presidential election - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





Petro Poroshenko's popularity was in decline over the years due to corruption allegations among other factors. This matter was captured in following article:









Trailing in polls, Ukraine's Poroshenko launches bid for second term


Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko, whose popularity has plunged over rampant corruption and sliding living standards, launched his uphill fight for re-election on Tuesday, promising to steer his country toward the West and join the EU.




mobile.reuters.com





Corruption allegations had basis to them:





__





petro poroshenko


Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project




www.occrp.org













Petro Poroshenko - The Panama Papers


President of Ukraine




www.occrp.org





Volodymyr Zelenskyy turned out to be a much smarter and compelling politician. He used his celebrity status to his advantage to connect with people and build his credentials. This ground reality is well-explained in following article:









Zelensky vs Putin: who’s winning the PR battle?


As Russian bombs fell across Ukraine, the contrast between the leaders of the warring nations could not be starker.




amp.scmp.com





Petro was later charged for colluding with Russians to intervene in Ukranian political landscape.*





__





Ukrainian court freezes ex-president's assets


A court in Ukraine has frozen the assets of Petro Poroshenko. The Prosecutor General's Office is investigating the Ukrainian former president on charges of high treason.




amp.dw.com





Corrupt politicians are the worst kind of scum. These people prioritize their own gains over that of the country. WE Pakistani understand this issue very well.

- - - - -

*Let us consider neighborhood politics for the sake of argument.

USA had problems with Canada and Mexico in earlier times.

1. USA and Canada fought a war for territorial settlements while Canada was under British protectorate.









How U.S. Forces Failed to Conquer Canada 200 Years Ago


The United States’ invasion of Canada 200 years ago went awry from the start.




www.history.com





2. USA and Mexico fought a war for territorial settlements while Mexico was under Spanish protectorate.









Mexican-American War


The Mexican-American War of 1846 to 1848 marked the first U.S. armed conflict chiefly fought on foreign soil. It pitted a politically divided and militarily




www.history.com





But neighbors should learn to co-exist and the 3 are doing fine in this respect in current times.

Calls for annexing Canada are made from time-to-time but American politicians do not entertain them.





__





Movements for the annexation of Canada to the United States - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





They do not desire instability in Canada. This is about responsible neighborhood.

Canada and Mexico do not feel the need to arm themselves to the teeth and will not entertain Russian offers to this end in any case.

- - -

NATO bloc reached Russian borders years ago. How many countries Russians can prevent to join it now?

Russian actions in Ukraine have created debate in Sweden and Finland to explore mutual defense cooperation and to join NATO.









Sweden and Finland to announce military cooperation







www.euractiv.com













Sweden, Finland reconsider joining NATO after Russia's Ukraine attack


Following Russia's attack on Ukraine, Sweden and Finland are looking to bolster their security, including with renewed discussion about joining NATO.



www.businessinsider.com





Kosovo has requested NATO membership as well.









Kosovo asks U.S. for permanent military base, speedier NATO membership


Kosovo has asked the United States to establish a permanent military base in the country and speed up its integration into NATO after Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Kosovo's Defence Minister Armend Mehaj said on Sunday.




www.reuters.com





Russian expedition is proving to be very costly on the other hand:









Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine







www.oryxspioenkop.com













Tracking sanctions against Russia


Searchable data on the latest sanctions and actions taken against Russia




graphics.reuters.com





This is why it is important to think rationally in the larger interests of your country. Problem is that dictators have no accountability - country be damned.









Независимый правозащитный медиа-проект ОВД-Инфо


ОВД-Инфо, ОВД Инфо, OVD-Info, протесты, акция, задержание, обыск, арест, свобода собраний, политпрессинг, мониторинг, горячая линия, юристы, юридическая помощь, правозащита, правозащитники, пикет,…




ovdinfo.org





Biden administration is willing to provide relief to Russia for its dealings with Iran:









Russia says it has received US guarantees over Iran nuclear deal


In joint news conference, foreign ministers of Russia and Iran contest Western claim Moscow is blocking JCPOA revival.




www.aljazeera.com





But:









Asian powers are unlikely to ease Russia’s economic woes


Already ostracised in Europe, a heavily sanctioned Russia may also struggle to find much love in Asia.




www.aljazeera.com









__





The Cold War 2.0 is overblown. China’s economic bailout of Russia is far less than it appears – Fortune


China seeks to maintain economic ties with Russia, but is treading lightly to avoid antagonizing western powers.



fortune.com





My assessment many pages earlier:

Post in thread 'Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/post-13596248

- - - - -

Coming back to Ukranian political landscape:

Putin should have reached out to Zelenskyy instead of betting on Petro in Ukraine. He misread Ukranian political landscape and this would be in part due to his advisors who were in hubris as well.

Putin should consider a political settlement with Zelenskyy, reorganize his own political system back home and replace his advisors in the process. This is the way forward for him. I am not sure what he will achieve otherwise.

@Meengla
@Huffal
@RescueRanger
@K_Bin_W
@kingQamaR
@_NOBODY_
@Wood
@waz
@Kambojaric
@dBSPL
@Vortex
@Qutb-ud-din Aybak
@Titanium100

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## Foinikas

LeGenD said:


> Volodymyr Zelenskyy turned out to be a much smarter and compelling politician. He used his celebrity status to his advantage to connect with people and build his credentials.


There's no doubt Zelensky was a much smarter and beloved politician than Poroshenko. He is much more charismatic compared to the previous 2 presidents who ruled from 2014 onwards.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504375276024827910


----------



## GeraltofRivia

jhungary said:


> Well, this war on the other hand show how strong is US Dollar. Not the weakness.
> 
> Economy of Russia crashed overnight because US refused to allow Russia Central Bank to exchange USD, and freezing all the oversea Russian central bank asset (Estimated at 300 billions) which left Russia holding their rouble and gold alone. You cannot exchange those gold or oil or any resource because you cannot issue either buy/sell order from overseas, which majority uses SWIFT, the only logical way is for Russia to trade with China with a tangible trade. (eg Oil for Electronic). But how much can you trade tangibly? And what happen if Russia want something China don't have? IC Chip for example?
> 
> Just because China and Russia (or if you bring along Iran or Syria as well, it wouldn't matter much) promote regional trade, that does not mean they can dethrone USD status as world reserve, because unless China is willing to use Ruble domestically and Russia is willing to use Yuan domestically, it did not change the fact that you cannot use someone else's denomination in your own country, which mean you need to exchange it somehow.
> 
> And it would be stupid at least for China to start using Ruble as official denomination. At least right now it's not feastible.


Russian economy will face difficulties in the foreseeable future but it is not going to crash. It is being removed from SWIFT and being sanctioned by the western world. I am sure Russian strategic planners were fully aware and made their calculations.

As you rightly pointed out, China will be the major power that has the capability and capacity to supply Russia consumer market, which has been vacated by Western business. It presents a good opportunity for Chinese business to capture Russian market. China can provide any consumer goods that are possibly available in this world. Naturally some electronic goods will face difficulty if there are any western made components but it will provide fantastic incentives for the growth of Chinese alternatives.

As long as inflation of consumer goods is low, Russian economy and society in general will fare steadily. I am sure many people will be disappointed to see that.

Naturally China and Russia will be trading with non USD going forward, and again that provides a strong incentive to accelerate the development of the new currency scheme. It could be the digital RMB in the end.

By the way, Russia or China does not need to use other party’s currency domestically as you mentioned. The currency they receive from international trade is separate from the home currency. For example Russia can receive RMB from selling oil and gas to China, they will turn around to use the same RMB to buy consumer goods and everything else from Chinese market. RMB will only serve as a medium of trade only. Russia has been running trade surplus with China so buying more Chinese goods can balance it out nicely.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504334060457533442

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## Apollon

Panama says that Russia now starts to attack civilian ships in Black Sea 









Panama says three ships hit by Russian missiles in Black Sea since start of Ukraine invasion


Three Panamanian-flagged ships have been hit by Russian missiles in the Black Sea since Russia's invasion of Ukraine last month, Panama's Maritime Authority said on Wednesday.




www.reuters.com

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504389713595146241

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## thetutle

GeraltofRivia said:


> It is being removed from SWIFT and being sanctioned by the western world. I am sure Russian strategic planners were fully aware and made their calculations.


If they were aware of the western moves then they allowed the west to have 315 billion of their own reserves. very generous people those Russians.

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## Wood

gambit said:


> We are now three weeks into the Russia-Ukraine war. *Where is the VKS?*
> 
> 
> 
> https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA260946.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> The most resounding Soviet affirmation of the dominant role played by air power in Desert Storm came barely two weeks following the cease-fire. Not surprisingly, it emerged *from an interview with the chief of the main staff of the Soviet air force, Lieutenant General A. Malyukov.* After suggesting that the war had constituted "a textbook example of what air supremacy means-both for the country that gained it and for the country ceding it to the opponent," the interviewer asked the general whether he felt the war had reflected a practical application of the American "Air-Land Battle" doctrine.​​In a reply that showed much perspicacity, *General Malyukov answered:* "I do not think so. *There was no classical 'air-land battle.'* Why? The point is that this war-and here General Dugan comes to mind-was obviously conceived from the outset as an air war to *wear out the opponent by means of air strikes,* *disorganize his command systems, destroy his air defenses, and weaken the ground forces' striking power*. In terms of the choice of objectives, it was more a case of a classic air offensive. And these objectives were achieved. Broadly speaking, *this is the first time we have seen a war in which aviation took care almost entirely of all the main tasks *[emphasis added]."​
> Basically, what Malyukov said 31 yrs ago that US airpower came to %90 of forcing an enemy into submission, that US airpower %90 scrapped the concept of 'air-land battle'. Or more like %90 air and %10 land. Apologies to our Army and Marines brothers and sisters. What have the VKS done for itself for the past 30 yrs? Apparently, with the last three weeks showing the world: *NOTHING*. The Su-57 does not qualify as an achievement. When this war is over, the Su-57 will be relegated to the museum.
> 
> With the Russia-Ukraine war, the world was looking for a Desert Storm replacement. Instead, the world was forced to return to Desert Storm as example of how far airpower have come, how much US airpower can do, and that the world's second air force failed by a miserable margin even just to meet the par set by US airpower, let alone hope to surpass. Thirty yrs passed and all the VKS done was produced one new platform and when the air force was called into battle, it failed its ground forces brothers.
> 
> It is not just any one observer of this war but of the entire world that the time for being generous to the VKS is over. Maybe it is time for all the VKS generals to commit _seppuku_ by impaling themselves on the pitot probes of their jets.


Could it be that the Russians are holding back VKS resources in the expectation of possible clash with NATO as this situation develops? Just wondering


----------



## MH.Yang

@Piotr 
I have a question. Is Poland willing to accept Lviv as Polish territory? 

Now Russia is not even willing to set up a no fly zone in Lviv. Obviously, Russia does not want Lviv. 

I can understand why Russia doesn't want Lviv, but the Polish govt may not be willing to accept this territory.

Is Poland willing to accept Lviv? This is a large territory, and Lviv's residents are mainly poles and Lithuanians. But Lviv is poor, and Lviv has millions of Ukrainian refugees, and that means Poland borders Russia directly. Of course, I think the EU certainly wants Poland to accept Lviv, but I want to know how poles think about this issue.

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## Vergennes

Several Russian MOD planes heading to Siberia ?











One of the planes bound for Siberia is the Russian Federation's presidential command plane, the Russian Air Force One.

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## jhungary

GeraltofRivia said:


> Russian economy will face difficulties in the foreseeable future but it is not going to crash. It is being removed from SWIFT. However I am sure Russian strategic planners have made the calculations that.
> 
> As you rightly pointed out, China will be the major power that has the capability and capacity to supply Russia consumer market, which has been *vacated by Western business*. It presents a good opportunity for Chinese business to capture Russian market. China can provide any consumer goods that are possibly available in this world. Naturally some electronic goods will face difficulty* if there are any western made components but it will provide fantastic incentives for the growth of Chinese alternative*s.



I will say what Financial Time editor (forgot her name) said on TV.

Just because Russia confiscated an Apple Store, that does not mean iPhone will magically appear.

Before you said "Oh, how about Huawei, Oppo or Xiao Mi?" You need to know that all of those phone have sanctioned technology (IC, Wifi, Memory Chip and so on), which mean to take over "Western Business" in this case, a phone store, you will need to have your mobile phone company set aside a brand new production line, producing phone just for Russia market that is rid of all Western Sanctioned Technology, or they will risk being sanction themselves. That goes to any sort of advance manufacturing business. You will need to separate your production line, and leave one just for Russia and another one for the rest of the world. 

Now the question you need to ask is, would Chinese company willing to open a new production line just for Russia? And that is assuming Russia market can afford anything.

Yes, I can see food business or other simple production China can take over (like textile or something like that) but anything else is just opening a new can of worm.




GeraltofRivia said:


> As long as inflation of consumer goods is low, Russian economy and society in general will fare steadily. I am sure many people will be disappointed to see that.
> 
> Naturally China and Russia will be trading with non USD going forward, and again that provides a strong incentive to accelerate the development of the new currency scheme. It could be the digital RMB in the end.



With what? Solely RMB? How are you going to get the extra RMB you need to service Russian Market? Just because they switch to RMB line of credit does not mean you don't need to inflate your own currency, you do know Russia Market worth 1.4 Trillions USD (or ~ 7 trillions RMB) before the war, sure that is going to go down, but I doubt you can create an entire RMB line of credit that can service the entire Russian industry.

Bear in mind Russia do not have the mean to borrow any money from overseas bank, so either Rouble or nothing to guarantee your Trade which mean if you want to trade with Russia, that have to be RMB, and ALL of them have to be RMB. I can see a steady program over 10 years elevating RMB amount to satisfy the Russian Market. It's nearly impossible to do it out of a sudden

Just because something is digital, that does not mean it does not count into your currency system........Or you really think Quantitative Easing is US actually printing 2.054 trillions dollar worth of new dollar bills?



GeraltofRivia said:


> By the way, Russia or China does not need to use other party’s currency domestically as you mentioned. The currency they receive from international trade is separate from the home currency. For example Russia can receive RMB from selling oil and gas to China, they will turn around to use the same RMB to buy consumer goods and everything else from Chinese market. RMB will only serve as a medium of trade only. Russia has been running trade surplus with China so buying more Chinese goods can balance it out nicely.



Again, You either underwrite the entire Russian Economy with RMB, or you uses Rouble and have them in your central bank to back those transaction, which I seriously doubt Chinese Central Bank will do that seeing Rouble dropping in value like crazy. (It only crawl back 0.2 cents value and it would be a great achievement)

Also, how much oil and gas you think China needed? You are not talking about hundred billions dollars here and there, you are talking about Trillion of Dollars worth. And do you think Russia on the other hand can afford Trillions dollars worth of Chinese goods? I mean you need people to have money to be able to buy stuff, you cannot just say "Hey I trade you 1 trillions dollar worth of Oil and I sent you 1 trillions worth of electronic" it would be the end of 2030 until Russia can get rid of all those electronic....

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## Wood

jhungary said:


> Was asking myself some question also. Why VKS failed to close the Ukrainian Airspace?
> 
> Better yet, I have another question for you.
> 
> *Why Zelenskyy still able to broadcast his speech/meet virtually to Western Leader?*
> 
> I mean, look at his video, he did US Congress this morning, Canadian Parliament 2 days ago, British Parliament earlier this week, and EU and NATO last week. I am not saying Russia should be able to assassinate him (that would actually be bad for Russia as this will make him a martyr) But Russia should have put pressure on him, and put him on the move, they can also jam their communication, taking out internet or TV infrastructure.
> 
> Why all that was not done?
> 
> That leads to 2 conclusion.
> 
> 1.) Russia is Culminating - They have no resource left to pursuit those measure.
> 2.) Russia military is not fighting this war - Putin is behind all the decision. Essentially he is doing a Hitler, he is no military man, he don't process proper military knowledge, if Russia Military is running this war, all these will basically priority number 1. Which mean Russia is entering dangerous territories here. A person have no wartime experience in charge of the entire operation....


Zelenskyy was likely using Starlink.. don't think that Russians can do anything about it

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> I will say what Financial Time editor (forgot her name) said on TV.
> 
> Just because Russia confiscated an Apple Store, that does not mean iPhone will magically appear.
> 
> Before you said "Oh, how about Huawei, Oppo or Xiao Mi?" You need to know that all of those phone have sanctioned technology (IC, Wifi, Memory Chip and so on), which mean to take over "Western Business" in this case, a phone store, you will need to have your mobile phone company set aside a brand new production line, producing phone just for Russia market that is rid of all Western Sanctioned Technology, or they will risk being sanction themselves. That goes to any sort of advance manufacturing business. You will need to separate your production line, and leave one just for Russia and another one for the rest of the world.
> 
> Now the question you need to ask is, would Chinese company willing to open a new production line just for Russia? And that is assuming Russia market can afford anything.


Whats to stop me buying 1,000 apple iPhones in Kazakstan or china and taking them to russia to sell?


----------



## jhungary

Wood said:


> Zelenskyy was likely using Starlink.. don't think that Russians can do anything about it



They can put him constantly on the move. You can jam their communication, there are a lot of thing the Russia can do but they didn't...

HUMINT, ISTAR or anything the Russian can use to track down Zelenskyy, I mean, have you ever seen Saddam Hussein have 15 minutes to sit down and talk to Russia or their supporter? I mean this guy have made like 10 appearance during a war, I mean, if Russia is seriously mean business, they can use anything they have to track him down and force him to be constantly on the move, take out COMM structure......

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504408059648655367

Reactions: Sad Sad:
1


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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Whats to stop me buying 1,000 apple iPhones in Kazakstan or china and taking them to russia to sell?


Nothing. But then you are talking about Black Market. I mean, sure, if you can buy PS4 in China (Playstation was effectively banned in China by the way after the online gaming restriction in China, and was physically banned before 2015) you can get an Iphone in Russia.

But then if the store sold you the iphone get caught, they will probably never be able to sell Iphone again.

And that is if normal Russian can afford a Black market Iphone to begin with.


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Also, how much oil and gas you think China needed? You are not talking about hundred billions dollars here and there, you are talking about Trillion of Dollars worth. And do you think Russia on the other hand can afford Trillions dollars worth of Chinese goods? I mean you need people to have money to be able to buy stuff, you cannot just say "Hey I trade you 1 trillions dollar worth of Oil and I sent you 1 trillions worth of electronic" it would be the end of 2030 until Russia can get rid of all those electronic....


Cant russia sell its oil to china and china pay them? they have a bank that facilitates this. RMB:RUB acct. Sounds pretty easy, although I am not an expert on it. China makes everything, Russa could use its RMB reserves to buy whatever it needs. 

Russia could also see oil to others for gold. Gold is easy enough to transport and can easily be converted ro RUB or even some hard currency. Its what Iran does.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> Several Russian MOD planes heading to Siberia ?
> 
> View attachment 824864
> 
> View attachment 824865
> 
> 
> One of the planes bound for Siberia is the Russian Federation's presidential command plane, the Russian Air Force One.
> 
> View attachment 824866



Russia has evacuated its key government VIPs from Moscow, my sources.

Nuclear sabre rattling, nothing more.


----------



## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Why are you so obsessed with Mearsheimer? You're stuck talking about him because someone mentioned him like 10-20 pages earlier.
> 
> And yes,I'm not a communist. On the contrary. I'm everything communists despise actually. Greek Orthodox and romantic pro-monarchist 😋
> 
> People don't have to be communists to oppose Western invasions.



How about opposing west and east invasions? Anyone with even slightest moral compass can see, that Putins war is a crime


----------



## thetutle

Paul2 said:


> Russia has evacuated its key government VIPs from Moscow, my sources.
> 
> Nuclear sabre rattling, nothing more.


I ma sure the people of Moscow feel very safe now.


----------



## Apollon

thetutle said:


> If they were aware of the western moves then they allowed the west to have 315 billion of their own reserves. very generous people those Russians.



They are good and generous


----------



## Hack-Hook

dbc said:


> Putin Vows to Rid Russia of ‘Traitors’ While Waging Ukraine War
> 
> 
> President Vladimir Putin warned he would cleanse Russia of the “scum and traitors” he accuses of working covertly for the U.S. and its allies, as the government steps up pressure on domestic critics of his war against Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bloomberg.com


I see comrade Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili


----------



## Apollon

thetutle said:


> Whats to stop me buying 1,000 apple iPhones in Kazakstan or china and taking them to russia to sell?



Geo tagging. They can be blocked by Apple


----------



## Hack-Hook

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504235879996534787


we have heard of that , any body recall this one


----------



## Apollon

thetutle said:


> I ma sure the people of Moscow feel very safe now.



Its just a small special operation.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504410029042114567


----------



## Amliunion

not only there - but yes.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504409345639030784


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504411620495310848


----------



## Paul2

thetutle said:


> I ma sure the people of Moscow feel very safe now.



A Russian diplomat has just requested an asylum, and safe passage to China in a Chinese embassy in a 3rd country I will not name.

Just seen news on Twitter of crapton of Russian VIPs fleeing Moscow to 3rd countries on private jets.

Last of rats jumped the ship.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> The last time I had a Big Mac was literally yrs ago. How many yrs ago, I do not know. But ever since I found Five Guys, I stopped going anywhere else. Five Guys make the best burger. Spider-Man is Five Guys burger. Hawkeye is In-And-Out burger. And they argues about it.
> 
> But it is interesting, though. For so many here who railed against US, how much of US are in their countries at the cultural level? I love Italian and JPNese food, but MD are there as well and MD make good moolah there. I will admit am shocked at the Russian response at the coming loss of the American McDonald's burger, a culinary abomination that it is.


but McDonald is not present here


----------



## Apollon

Paul2 said:


> A Russian diplomat has just requested an asylum, and safe passage to China in a Chinese embassy in a 3rd country I will not name.
> 
> Just seen news on Twitter of crapton of Russian VIPs fleeing Moscow to 3rd countries on private jets.
> 
> Last of rats jumped the ship.



Thats what i meant earlier. They love luxus. Putin cant give them what they crave in his mega north korea. The smart russians run now as fast they can. When you are educated and talented...what can Putin offer you?


----------



## Amliunion

India is with India. Either you are with India. Or against it. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504414574849806346


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Cant russia sell its oil to china and china pay them? they have a bank that facilitates this. RMB:RUB acct. Sounds pretty easy, although I am not an expert on it. China makes everything, Russa could use its RMB reserves to buy whatever it needs.
> 
> Russia could also see oil to others for gold. Gold is easy enough to transport and can easily be converted ro RUB or even some hard currency. Its what Iran does.


Again, how much oil and gas do you think China need in a single year?

And RMB/RUB account is a non-starter, there are no way Russia can guarantee their currency as they pretty much run out of option to back their own currency after US, UK and EU (Together worth 90% of world currency reserve) pull the plug in Russia central bank.

I don't think you have any idea how bad it is, because effectively what the West is doing to is take away Russian central bank to support its own currency, as you cannot back Rouble with Rouble. That is backing something abstract with something abstract. This is not even done to Iran (well, they did it but in a limited sense) and the Sanctioning of NDF is only 5 billions or so, instead of the 300 billions Foreign Currency Russian own overseas.

So basically, by barring US and EU entity to do business in Russia and frozen their Asset in US/EU (including the UK) You effectively block the way Russia can raise fund. Blocking them off SWIFT is one thing (still big on Russia), you stop Russia by buying/selling overseas that uses SWIFT, you can still transfer money using any other mean (CIPS or even direct trade) but stopping Central Bank of Russia from exchanging USD, Euro and Pound, you take away the mean Russia can use to back it's own currency, which mean they only have 1 currency in that basket to choose from. RMB. Which mean either China undercut their own currency policy and move majority of their currency back home to back Russia, which will weaken Yuan, or you print more money (by offering more Line of Credit) to satisfy the trade volume with Russia, which will inflate Yuan. Either way is a bad move.

Gold is a tangible asset. Which mean it's physically thing, so how do you actually back an abstract thing with gold? Say today 1 rouble worth 0.0001 ounce of gold, you cannot change that exchange rate because that would mean "re-cutting" the gold. And there is a certain amount of gold a country can have and there is a limit of abundance. That mean you either overinflate it or you will suffer a slow development rate because you cannot back all the project until the previous one is finished and that gold is "released"

And then you have the civilian ownership of gold. Think about it, if I own, say a ton of gold (which worth around 61 millions USD), Consider Russia central bank only have access to 2300 ton of gold, if I use my ton of gold and go to Russia (61 millions dollar) I effectively own 1/2301 Russian Economy.....(that's 608 millions of dollar in 2021 term)

There is a reason why we move on from Gold since 1914.......


----------



## jhungary

gambit said:


> In DC, I had so many heated discussions with my Air Force friends about the VKS. A lot of pizzas and booze, mine is bourbon. I am the most generous of the bunch, as well as the oldest, and I fought for the VKS at as many turn as possible. But I was outnumbered and out-argued.
> 
> *Point 1.* That the VKS reached its logistical limits. Then who the hell told the generals they had enough to prosecute the war? Back in Desert Storm, we never ran out of 'bullets'. We had jets returned from a sortie, taxied in, refueled, re-armed, then taxied out, only to return to change ordnance, and we never failed. I literally had my jet changed from ground (all bombs) to air (all missiles) sortie within five minutes of hot refuel because of one phone call.
> 
> *Point 2.* This is my favorite.
> 
> As to why Zelensky was able to broadcast, I lean more towards the technical. It seems Poutine failed to anticipate Elon Musk and his satellite link stations. To cut Poutine some slack, I do not think anyone could have anticipated Elon Musk. For something as valuable as your president talking directly to the US Congress or the Canadian parliament or whoever outside Ukraine, you better make sure your president have the best connection possible as it could be his only chance. Did Musk do a James Bond 'Q' and somehow gave Zelensky a secure interweb connection no matter where and under what condition? Those virtual meetings were not secrets. So if Russian 'hackers' could not interrupt, maybe the best of of them were busy trying to scam money instead of being in the service of their country.


While I do think Russia is Culminating, I don't think it's Russian General that are running the show. 

It's not as hard as you think to jam someone frequency, especially if you have a pretty good idea where that person is (Zelenskyy is in Kyiv) if this was us, we will use CIA voice trap, which basically an airborne asset that track all the call in a certain area. and you filter those call until you get Zelenskyy comm. Then you can jam it by either jamming the actual line of communication, or jamming the entire comm signal in the area. Plus, Zelenskyy press team told literally everyone when they are expecting that call, it's not hard at all to filter out his frequency and jam it.

But then they did none of that......

As for Elon Musk..........






I like how Rockstar portrait Elon Musk on GTA online...


----------



## Wood

Hack-Hook said:


> we have heard of that , any body recall this one


Yea, good thing that this guy was not made the President for life to start a war 



jhungary said:


> They can put him constantly on the move. You can jam their communication, there are a lot of thing the Russia can do but they didn't...
> 
> HUMINT, ISTAR or anything the Russian can use to track down Zelenskyy, I mean, have you ever seen Saddam Hussein have 15 minutes to sit down and talk to Russia or their supporter? I mean this guy have made like 10 appearance during a war, I mean, if Russia is seriously mean business, they can use anything they have to track him down and force him to be constantly on the move, take out COMM structure......


I remember reading a few days ago that Russians were trying to flood the Starlink system, but the constellation was too redundant. Good publicity for Starlink


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> How about opposing west and east invasions? Anyone with even slightest moral compass can see, that Putins war is a crime


I disagree with the invasion,but the West is to blame on this.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> I disagree with the invasion,but the West is to blame on this.



Yes the west ordered Putin to do a hitler attack on Ukraine. I heared von der Leyen herself forced Putin to bomb the theatre. 

No buddy, Putin is to blame. He could have invested in education, culture and economy. But chose to make russia hyper corrupted mafia state and now taints his nation with blood of innocent people. For generations Russia will have to live with that guilt.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## jhungary

Wood said:


> Yea, good thing that this guy was not made the President for life to start a war
> 
> 
> I remember reading a few days ago that Russians were trying to flood the Starlink system, but the constellation was too redundant. Good publicity for Starlink


There are other way to do that. As I mentioned in my other post...



jhungary said:


> While I do think Russia is Culminating, I don't think it's Russian General that are running the show.
> 
> It's not as hard as you think to jam someone frequency, especially if you have a pretty good idea where that person is (Zelenskyy is in Kyiv) if this was us, we will use CIA voice trap, which basically an airborne asset that track all the call in a certain area. and you filter those call until you get Zelenskyy comm. Then you can jam it by either jamming the actual line of communication, or jamming the entire comm signal in the area. Plus, Zelenskyy press team told literally everyone when they are expecting that call, it's not hard at all to filter out his frequency and jam it.
> 
> But then they did none of that......
> 
> As for Elon Musk..........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like how Rockstar portrait Elon Musk on GTA online...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504423119888416785


----------



## LeGenD

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 824835
> 
> The wheels have come off the “Special Operation”. The Russian advance has stalled on all fronts.
> 
> As they say in Pakistan “It’s Chitrol (trashing) time”.


Bro,

What can Zelenskky do when Putin decides to fight him to the last Feminist, toy gun, and donkey cart in his arsenal?

Poor Zelenskyy.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Yes the west ordered Putin to do a hitler attack on Ukraine. I heared von der Leyen herself forced Putin to bomb the theatre.
> 
> No buddy, Putin is to blame. He could have invested in education, culture and economy. But chose to make russia hyper corrupted mafia state and now taints his nation with blood of innocent people. For generations Russia will have to live with that guilt.


Kala ok,ama den katalavaineis kapoia pragmata,ti na sou pw...

Where were you when the Ukrainian forces constantly bombed Donbass for 8 years? The children and innocent of Donbass died because of Ukrainian bombing and neo-nazi militia atrocities. There are horror stories from there. Where were you in 2015 and onwards to talk about this?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Amliunion

Wishing & Praying Germany and France can play an important role and bring Ukraine/Russia to table to stop this war:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504422570082422786

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504425621497208832


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

TB2 shot down


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504422598947618819
more Russian progress in Kharkov region


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504425475950657537
battle in Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504424145144197123
Msta-S self propelled artillery firing in Kharkov area


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504422613606715400


----------



## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> Again, how much oil and gas do you think China need in a single year?
> 
> And RMB/RUB account is a non-starter, there are no way Russia can guarantee their currency as they pretty much run out of option to back their own currency after US, UK and EU (Together worth 90% of world currency reserve) pull the plug in Russia central bank.
> 
> I don't think you have any idea how bad it is, because effectively what the West is doing to is take away Russian central bank to support its own currency, as you cannot back Rouble with Rouble. That is backing something abstract with something abstract. This is not even done to Iran (well, they did it but in a limited sense) and the Sanctioning of NDF is only 5 billions or so, instead of the 300 billions Foreign Currency Russian own overseas.
> 
> So basically, by barring US and EU entity to do business in Russia and frozen their Asset in US/EU (including the UK) You effectively block the way Russia can raise fund. Blocking them off SWIFT is one thing (still big on Russia), you stop Russia by buying/selling overseas that uses SWIFT, you can still transfer money using any other mean (CIPS or even direct trade) but stopping Central Bank of Russia from exchanging USD, Euro and Pound, you take away the mean Russia can use to back it's own currency, which mean they only have 1 currency in that basket to choose from. RMB. Which mean either China undercut their own currency policy and move majority of their currency back home to back Russia, which will weaken Yuan, or you print more money (by offering more Line of Credit) to satisfy the trade volume with Russia, which will inflate Yuan. Either way is a bad move.
> 
> Gold is a tangible asset. Which mean it's physically thing, so how do you actually back an abstract thing with gold? Say today 1 rouble worth 0.0001 ounce of gold, you cannot change that exchange rate because that would mean "re-cutting" the gold. And there is a certain amount of gold a country can have and there is a limit of abundance. That mean you either overinflate it or you will suffer a slow development rate because you cannot back all the project until the previous one is finished and that gold is "released"
> 
> And then you have the civilian ownership of gold. Think about it, if I own, say a ton of gold (which worth around 61 millions USD), Consider Russia central bank only have access to 2300 ton of gold, if I use my ton of gold and go to Russia (61 millions dollar) I effectively own 1/2301 Russian Economy.....(that's 608 millions of dollar in 2021 term)
> 
> There is a reason why we move on from Gold since 1914.......


In 2021, Russia exported 230 million tons of oil. 
In 2021, China imported 513 million tons of oil. 

Of course, it is impossible for China to hand over 50% of its oil orders to Russia, but it is acceptable for China to hand over 130 million tons of oil orders to Russia. Russia should be able to sell the remaining 100 million tons of oil through other channels. 

Russia is not only selling oil, but also an exporter of natural gas, coal, iron ore, copper, lead, non-ferrous metals and other bulk resources.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504424432282087424


----------



## jhungary

Foinikas said:


> Kala ok,ama den katalavaineis kapoia pragmata,ti na sou pw...
> 
> Where were you when the Ukrainian forces constantly bombed Donbass for 8 years? The children and innocent of Donbass died because of Ukrainian bombing and neo-nazi militia atrocities. There are horror stories from there. Where were you in 2015 and onwards to talk about this?


You say this as if people in the 2 Donbas republic never bombard Ukrainian Civilian Position in that 8 years since 2014......

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504301140447567872
For layman people like me who are not from the super spy world of Putin  :


----------



## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> In 2021, Russia exported 230 million tons of oil.
> In 2021, China imported 513 million tons of oil.
> 
> Of course, it is impossible for China to hand over 50% of its oil orders to Russia, but it is acceptable for China to hand over 130 million tons of oil orders to Russia. Russia should be able to sell the remaining 100 million tons of oil through other channels.
> 
> Russia is not only selling oil, but also an exporter of natural gas, coal, iron ore, copper, lead, non-ferrous metals and other bulk resources.



It's not the number, but how do you pay for it or what do you trade it for?? You are talking about a situation where Russia cannot pay you in cash or currency, and you do not have enough extra RMB hanging around to support both trade between Russia and China.

Also, you are talking about an entire Russian economy (or half, if you say it like that), how are you going to support that?

And finally, to be honest, what you are saying is a bit "Wishful Thinking", of course if China can do that, Russia will be alright, but would China even consider doing that is another issue altogether.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Foinikas

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504301140447567872
> For layman people like me who are not from the super spy world of Putin  :
> 
> View attachment 824899


Ukrainians themselves talked about "fifth column" and "Russian saboteurs" in Kiev and other parts of the country.

Is Zelensky a dictator too then?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russia has world's biggest deposit of gold. Gold is real money, not like US dollars printed out of thin air.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## LeGenD

Armata spotted anywhere? Anybody? I asked this before but nobody responded. Come on guys.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Again, how much oil and gas do you think China need in a single year?
> 
> And RMB/RUB account is a non-starter, there are no way Russia can guarantee their currency as they pretty much run out of option to back their own currency after US, UK and EU (Together worth 90% of world currency reserve) pull the plug in Russia central bank.
> 
> I don't think you have any idea how bad it is, because effectively what the West is doing to is take away Russian central bank to support its own currency, as you cannot back Rouble with Rouble. That is backing something abstract with something abstract. This is not even done to Iran (well, they did it but in a limited sense) and the Sanctioning of NDF is only 5 billions or so, instead of the 300 billions Foreign Currency Russian own overseas.
> 
> So basically, by barring US and EU entity to do business in Russia and frozen their Asset in US/EU (including the UK) You effectively block the way Russia can raise fund. Blocking them off SWIFT is one thing (still big on Russia), you stop Russia by buying/selling overseas that uses SWIFT, you can still transfer money using any other mean (CIPS or even direct trade) but stopping Central Bank of Russia from exchanging USD, Euro and Pound, you take away the mean Russia can use to back it's own currency, which mean they only have 1 currency in that basket to choose from. RMB. Which mean either China undercut their own currency policy and move majority of their currency back home to back Russia, which will weaken Yuan, or you print more money (by offering more Line of Credit) to satisfy the trade volume with Russia, which will inflate Yuan. Either way is a bad move.
> 
> Gold is a tangible asset. Which mean it's physically thing, so how do you actually back an abstract thing with gold? Say today 1 rouble worth 0.0001 ounce of gold, you cannot change that exchange rate because that would mean "re-cutting" the gold. And there is a certain amount of gold a country can have and there is a limit of abundance. That mean you either overinflate it or you will suffer a slow development rate because you cannot back all the project until the previous one is finished and that gold is "released"
> 
> And then you have the civilian ownership of gold. Think about it, if I own, say a ton of gold (which worth around 61 millions USD), Consider Russia central bank only have access to 2300 ton of gold, if I use my ton of gold and go to Russia (61 millions dollar) I effectively own 1/2301 Russian Economy.....(that's 608 millions of dollar in 2021 term)
> 
> There is a reason why we move on from Gold since 1914.......


Very interesting. So what do you think will happen to the Russian economy in 30 days time? what will happen in 1 years time? what is your prediction?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

LeGenD said:


> Armata spotted anywhere? Anybody? I asked this before but nobody responded. Come on guys.



Not in service. Neither is Su-57. Not even T-90M. The best they deployed is T-72BM3 which is on par with M1A2.


----------



## MH.Yang

Apollon said:


> Geo tagging. They can be blocked by Apple


If a Chinese citizen buys an iPhone in China, but his iPhone cannot be used because of traveling to Russia. Then the iPhone will violate China's consumer rights law, and Apple may be sued and fined.
If Apple blocks a mobile phone only by virtue of its location, it will get into a lot of trouble. Unlike the US govt, the Chinese govt has never shown mercy on these multinational groups.


----------



## Vergennes

According to independent countings from Vkontakte and Odnoklassniki (Russian social platforms),they counted so far at least 4300 Russian soldiers killed in Ukraine.



Some of them ;

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1 | Wow Wow:
1 | Sad Sad:
1


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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504428324600356865

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
3


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## Wood

Foinikas said:


> Ukrainians themselves talked about "fifth column" and "Russian saboteurs" in Kiev and other parts of the country.
> 
> Is Zelensky a dictator too then?


----------



## Foinikas

LeGenD said:


> Armata spotted anywhere? Anybody? I asked this before but nobody responded. Come on guys.


Yes,they are producing 100 a year,just like the Iranians produce 1000 Karrar a month. 

It's as absent as the Russian anti-drone patrols.



Wood said:


> View attachment 824907


I like you Wood,but sometimes I want to slap you like that Romanian policeman 😂😂😂

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hack-Hook

Wood said:


> Yea, good thing that this guy was not made the President for life to start a war


he managed for 10 years destroy the life every one who didn't sang his song


----------



## Wood

Hack-Hook said:


> he managed for 10 years destroy the life every one who didn't sang his song


...but did not launch an invasion that we know of. 



Foinikas said:


> I like you Wood,but sometimes I want to slap you like that Romanian policeman 😂😂😂


Good thing that I'm an AI bot


----------



## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> It's not the number, but how do you pay for it or what do you trade it for?? You are talking about a situation where Russia cannot pay you in cash or currency, and you do not have enough extra RMB hanging around to support both trade between Russia and China.
> 
> Also, you are talking about an entire Russian economy (or half, if you say it like that), how are you going to support that?
> 
> And finally, to be honest, what you are saying is a bit "Wishful Thinking", of course if China can do that, Russia will be alright, but would China even consider doing that is another issue altogether.



There is a bank in China called BKCL, which has been responsible for trade settlement between China and Iran, Venezuela and other countries since 2007.
Of course, USA has repeatedly sanctioned BKCL, but it is useless. Because this bank has no business in western countries. The bank's shareholders are three state-owned enterprises: PetroChina, Sinopec and CNOOC. But it is strange that USA has never sanctioned these three state-owned enterprises. Because these three companies send more than 500 million tons of oil orders to other countries every year, Wall Street oil tycoons will kill any Western politicians who want to sanction these three companies.
Therefore, we know very well how Russia will trade with China.










昆仑银行 - 维基百科，自由的百科全书







zh.m.wikipedia.org

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## Hack-Hook

Wood said:


> ...but did not launch an invasion that we know of.


are you aware of cased that Canadian or Mexican bombing American ethnic for 7 years at his time


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## ProudPak

jhungary said:


> Well, this war on the other hand show how strong is US Dollar. Not the weakness.
> 
> Economy of Russia crashed overnight because US refused to allow Russia Central Bank to exchange USD, and freezing all the oversea Russian central bank asset (Estimated at 300 billions) which left Russia holding their rouble and gold alone. You cannot exchange those gold or oil or any resource because you cannot issue either buy/sell order from overseas, which majority uses SWIFT, the only logical way is for Russia to trade with China with a tangible trade. (eg Oil for Electronic). But how much can you trade tangibly? And what happen if Russia want something China don't have? IC Chip for example?
> 
> Just because China and Russia (or if you bring along Iran or Syria as well, it wouldn't matter much) promote regional trade, that does not mean they can dethrone USD status as world reserve, because unless China is willing to use Ruble domestically and Russia is willing to use Yuan domestically, it did not change the fact that you cannot use someone else's denomination in your own country, which mean you need to exchange it somehow.
> 
> And it would be stupid at least for China to start using Ruble as official denomination. At least right now it's not feastible.


Yes indeed and as the US markets are indicating govenments globally have taken notice and are moving their national reserves from the dollar. Alternatives will be found. The world knows now the real power is the economic power. Even more so than military. Just watch this space


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## Apollon

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia has world's biggest deposit of gold. Gold is real money, not like US dollars printed out of thin air.



Wrong 

1. USA 
2. Germany


----------



## Wood

Hack-Hook said:


> are you aware of cased that Canadian or Mexican bombing American ethnic for 7 years at his time


There are a lot of things that I'm not aware of. All of them are not related to this discussion here. You can take the liberty to educate people like me by discussing about them in separate threads. For now, please do not haunt me with more historical tragedies. I'd like this thread to be relevant with the latest tragedy that Putin has unleashed


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## MH.Yang

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia has world's biggest deposit of gold. Gold is real money, not like US dollars printed out of thin air.


Russia is not the world's largest gold reserve.

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## Apollon

MH.Yang said:


> If a Chinese citizen buys an iPhone in China, but his iPhone cannot be used because of traveling to Russia. Then the iPhone will violate China's consumer rights law, and Apple may be sued and fined.
> If Apple blocks a mobile phone only by virtue of its location, it will get into a lot of trouble. Unlike the US govt, the Chinese govt has never shown mercy on these multinational groups.



It will be unblocked back in China. Just not work in russia


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## MH.Yang

Apollon said:


> Wrong
> 
> 1. USA
> 2. Germany


You are also wrong. China's gold reserves are several times that of the United States.


----------



## Maarkhoor

@RescueRanger

Russian attack on Ukraine a total military planing disaster. They thought they will capture few cities and then go straight to capital but they failed to understand how they will secure supply lines? same mistake Gen Musharaf did he totally ignore about logistics.
If Ukraine got contentiously support and arms from outside I fear Russian forces will trap inside Ukraine and would die but before that Putin would force to use nukes.

A big debacle by Russian military planners.
@PanzerKiel
Your thoughts Sir.

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## Apollon

MH.Yang said:


> You are also wrong. China's gold reserves are several times that of the United States.



No they are not.

*ten countries with the largest gold reserves in the world are:*

United States. - 8,134 tons.
Germany - 3,364 tons.
Italy - 2,453 tons.
France - 2,436 tons.
Russia - 2,299 tons.
China - 1,948 tons.
Switzerland - 1,040 tons.
Japan - 765 tons.



Maarkhoor said:


> @RescueRanger
> 
> Russian attack on Ukraine a total military planing disaster. They thought they will capture few cities and then go straight to capital but they failed to understand how they will secure supply lines? same mistake Gen Musharaf did he totally ignore about logistics.
> If Ukraine got contentiously support and arms from outside I fear Russian forces will trap inside Ukraine and would die but before that Putin would force to use nukes.
> 
> A big debacle by Russian military planners.
> @PanzerKiel
> Your thoughts Sir.



The thing is, that russia never cared for their soldiers. So he propably will push more and more into this chaos.


----------



## MH.Yang

Apollon said:


> No they are not.
> 
> *ten countries with the largest gold reserves in the world are:*
> 
> United States. - 8,134 tons.
> Germany - 3,364 tons.
> Italy - 2,453 tons.
> France - 2,436 tons.
> Russia - 2,299 tons.
> China - 1,948 tons.
> Switzerland - 1,040 tons.
> Japan - 765 tons.


You should google the news about China's gold reserves again. Any financial institution in the world has determined that China's gold reserves exceed 30000 tons. Maybe only you believe the figure of 1948 tons.


Let me remind you that China has the highest gold production in the world. And China buys a lot of gold every year and never sells gold. The figure of 1948 t was released by China in 1984. 38 years later, this figure has never changed.

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## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> There is a bank in China called BKCL, which has been responsible for trade settlement between China and Iran, Venezuela and other countries since 2007.
> Of course, USA has repeatedly sanctioned BKCL, but it is useless. Because this bank has no business in western countries. The bank's shareholders are three state-owned enterprises: PetroChina, Sinopec and CNOOC. But it is strange that USA has never sanctioned these three state-owned enterprises.
> Therefore, we know very well how Russia will trade with China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 昆仑银行 - 维基百科，自由的百科全书
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zh.m.wikipedia.org


Again, answer me these two question.

1.) Where do you get your money from? 
2.) Where do the Russian get their money from?

US never sanction any other bank does not have any bearing in this, because Central Bank of China is the one that initiate monetary policy in China. As long as Central Bank of China was not sanctioned, you can raise whatever fund you want.

But bear in mind that you are no talking about a few billions dollars, or a few hundred billions dollars. You are talking about loaning trillions of dollars worth of your currency to a known default risk. Which mean either the Russia will pay you back with Rouble (which worth nothing) or they will not pay you back at all, at least until the sanction lifted. That mean the only way you can recover those money is to write it off and print new one. Again, A trillions dollars worth or more? 

On the other hand, how do you think Russia is going to pay you back? They cannot guarantee their money, which mean there are no way you can set a price with them (Because that would depends on a currency swap deal and again, would you swap Rouble with RMB now? That's the question) unless you are talking about goods to goods trade, then you need to ask yourself this. What good would it do to Huawei, Oppo, SAIC or Chinese bank get oil or gas in return of their goods and service?? Can they spend those oil?


----------



## Xerxes22

LeGenD said:


> Indeed.
> 
> USA military budget = 770 billion USD per year*
> 
> Russian military budget = 180 billion USD per year (PPP metric)**
> 
> *Over 50 billion USD is diverted for Black Projects.
> 
> Americans are relatively better funded and equipped for black experiments and creating new technologies by extension.
> 
> They will disclose and apply game-changing technologies when up against a well-equipped force. They did this in 1991 (vs. Iraq) and 1999 (vs. Yugoslavia) respectively - won both wars.
> 
> - - -
> 
> **Details in following source:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Russian Military Expenditure Is Much Higher Than Commonly Understood (As Is China’s) - War on the Rocks
> 
> 
> Gresham’s Law states that bad money drives out good money, but anyone who has spent time around Washington, D.C., knows that this law can safely be
> 
> 
> 
> warontherocks.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Americans have surprises in store for others even in case of a nuclear war. These include unspecified advances in the EMSO regime. They are developing different technologies to fight a nuclear war if necessary. This matter is no longer limited to use of ICBMs. Many are sold to Cold War era notions in this regard.
> 
> For perspective, they complain about Russian (and Chinese) ASAT options but they do not tell much about their own and how they can defend their assets in space:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Satellite Attack Weapon Might The US Reveal Soon? - Breaking Defense
> 
> 
> Space based jammers? Kinetic kill vehicles? Ground based lasers? The Pentagon has a space weapon it's ready to show, but it's not clear exactly what it will be.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> breakingdefense.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You might consider military buildup (for a military operation in a neighboring country) deep inside your territory but you will have to move these forces to the relevant border at some point and it will draw attention at this stage if not earlier. This strategy will add to your costs as well - lot of fuel will be consumed in the process.
> 
> Military buildup near the border is cost-effective approach on the other hand. Much of the fuel is preserved for military operations inside another country in this manner.
> 
> Russian force composition in Ukraine is already substantial: 200,000 Russian regular troops are involved along with an undisclosed count of irregular forces such as the Wagner Group and Chechens. These forces breached Ukraine from 6 different directions including through Belarus. Russians have also used hundreds of cruise missiles and ballistic missiles to strike at high value targets inside Ukraine to minimize losses to its Air Force. Russian military operation in Ukraine is well-executed in theory.
> 
> Ukranian resistance efforts are commendable on the other hand. Putin assumed that Zelenskky administration is a puppet regime and will fall apart when Russian forces will enter Ukraine and approach Kyiv. He was proven wrong. Not only Zelenskyy decided to stay in Kyiv, he motivated Ukranians to fight and many answered his call. Putin needs to get rid of his current crop of advisors if anything.
> 
> Ukranians were relatively underprepared for the war in fact. Ukranian leaders were taking Russians lightly. Misreading of this situation costed Ukraine much since 2014. Zelenskyy administration was also taking Russian military buildup in Belarus and around Ukraine lightly. Zelenskyy probably realizes this error and decided not to abandon his country when Russian forces approached Kyiv.
> 
> I have seen some members making fun of Zelenskyy for being a comedian but this man has more spine in him than supposedly well-groomed leaders of numerous countries around the world. Credit where due.
> 
> You cannot stop supplies from one country to another unless you are willing to conduct a military operation to this effect. This is time-consuming initiative and will add to your costs as well.
> 
> Few countries have sufficient resources to subject another country to military occupation and/or fight increasingly hybrid methods of warfare in another.


Well basically we are saying the same thing. Russia did miscalculate the situation alot. Obviously in both strategic in tactical levels.

On a strategic level they misunderstood the stand that the Kiev leaders and the resistance people would put up against the invasion. On a tactical level, yes I understand it is cost effective to build up forces near the border as they did but even so they kept waiting and waiting after full mobilisation. All the while Ukraine was getting armed. And the American and EU war machine and intelligence was gearing up to support the Ukrainians with military intelligence when the time came.

The west was setting up their infrastructure already to assist Ukraine in a coordinated manner. So that's why I thought instead of just sitting them down like ducks they cudve attacked after the mobilisation was complete.

Also no one cud ever imagine, that Russia wud suffer so much losses. They tried many times to land VVD behind enemy lines without any support and they got wiped out completely on several occasions. Now these are their elite fighters.

However I know, if this was not a former Soviet Slavic country.... Russia wudve just levelled cities like Mariupol, Kiev, Kharkov like Grozny. Their MRLS are very deadly. But they chose rather to get bogged down and encircle the cities and not use as much shelling in order to protect civilians. Which I think is the humane thing to do. And kudos to them for that.

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## coffee_cup

Apollon said:


> 2. Germany


A lot of this is held by Fed Reserve and last time Germany wanted to inspect her gold, they flatly rejected their request. So I am not sure, Germany will ever be able to see her gold held in the US, :-(

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## RescueRanger

Maarkhoor said:


> @RescueRanger
> 
> Russian attack on Ukraine a total military planing disaster. They thought they will capture few cities and then go straight to capital but they failed to understand how they will secure supply lines? same mistake Gen Musharaf did he totally ignore about logistics.
> If Ukraine got contentiously support and arms from outside I fear Russian forces will trap inside Ukraine and would die but before that Putin would force to use nukes.
> 
> A big debacle by Russian military planners.
> @PanzerKiel
> Your thoughts Sir.


I too want to hear what @PanzerKiel has to say, sir your input would be valuable to this thread.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Very interesting. So what do you think will happen to the Russian economy in 30 days time? what will happen in 1 years time? what is your prediction?



In short term? Nothing. There are still foreign reserve within Russia that Russian can use, and until that has depleted, nothing will change. But once that has been depleted, then depends on how much China help out, it range from business as usual to everything close down and Russia went back to coupon system for just about everything.

I don't know how long Russia can hang on to those foreign money and I don't know when will the West lift the sanction, so I cannot tell you what will happen in a year or so.


----------



## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> Again, answer me these two question.
> 
> 1.) Where do you get your money from?
> 2.) Where do the Russian get their money from?
> 
> US never sanction any other bank does not have any bearing in this, because Central Bank of China is the one that initiate monetary policy in China. As long as Central Bank of China was not sanctioned, you can raise whatever fund you want.
> 
> But bear in mind that you are no talking about a few billions dollars, or a few hundred billions dollars. You are talking about loaning trillions of dollars worth of your currency to a known default risk. Which mean either the Russia will pay you back with Rouble (which worth nothing) or they will not pay you back at all, at least until the sanction lifted. That mean the only way you can recover those money is to write it off and print new one. Again, A trillions dollars worth or more?
> 
> On the other hand, how do you think Russia is going to pay you back? They cannot guarantee their money, which mean there are no way you can set a price with them (Because that would depends on a currency swap deal and again, would you swap Rouble with RMB now? That's the question) unless you are talking about goods to goods trade, then you need to ask yourself this. What good would it do to Huawei, Oppo, SAIC or Chinese bank get oil or gas in return of their goods and service?? Can they spend those oil?





jhungary said:


> Again, answer me these two question.
> 
> 1.) Where do you get your money from?
> 2.) Where do the Russian get their money from?
> 
> US never sanction any other bank does not have any bearing in this, because Central Bank of China is the one that initiate monetary policy in China. As long as Central Bank of China was not sanctioned, you can raise whatever fund you want.
> 
> But bear in mind that you are no talking about a few billions dollars, or a few hundred billions dollars. You are talking about loaning trillions of dollars worth of your currency to a known default risk. Which mean either the Russia will pay you back with Rouble (which worth nothing) or they will not pay you back at all, at least until the sanction lifted. That mean the only way you can recover those money is to write it off and print new one. Again, A trillions dollars worth or more?
> 
> On the other hand, how do you think Russia is going to pay you back? They cannot guarantee their money, which mean there are no way you can set a price with them (Because that would depends on a currency swap deal and again, would you swap Rouble with RMB now? That's the question) unless you are talking about goods to goods trade, then you need to ask yourself this. What good would it do to Huawei, Oppo, SAIC or Chinese bank get oil or gas in return of their goods and service?? Can they spend those oil?


China purchases oil, natural gas and other resources from Russia through CNY used by BKCL. Russia uses CNY to buy the goods they need from China. What's the problem? Of course, China will not agree to use rubles for settlement. Russia has agreed to use CNY for settlement.

Russia can also exchange some physical dollars and euros through offshore CNY. This is not difficult to operate.

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## jhungary

ProudPak said:


> Yes indeed and as the US markets are indicating govenments globally have taken notice and are moving their national reserves from the dollar. Alternatives will be found. The world knows now the real power is the economic power. Even more so than military. Just watch this space



I honestly don't think so. 

A replacement for Dollar denominated system would mean whatever currency that is going to replace the USD would have to have MORE circulation than USD, and that is before US call in EU for help, then you are not looking at 61% reserve, but closer to 90% world reserve. Can a single currency do that without bankrupting their own economy? 

Look at it this way, RMB is currently at 1.2% world reserve basket, they will need to expand at least 60 times to overrun USD (which is at 61.2%) that expanding may have been possible in the next 100 years if RMB have a complete currency reform (nobody are going to willing to trade a currency that is controlled by the government) I do not see China can do that without seriously deflate their own currency. 

Either that or a third world war happened and nobody but China survive. Which is how US get to dominate world currency back after WW2.

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## dBSPL

MH.Yang said:


> You should google the news about China's gold reserves again. Any financial institution in the world has determined that China's gold reserves exceed 30000 tons. Maybe only you believe the figure of 1948 tons.
> 
> 
> Let me remind you that China has the highest gold production in the world. And China buys a lot of gold every year and never sells gold. The figure of 1948 t was released by China in 1984. 38 years later, this figure has never changed.


Is there an official report confirming this 30,000 tons claim? Central banks' trading operations should be transparent in terms of market reliability and auditability. So there should be official reports on how much gold China's CB buys annually. Don't get me wrong, I do not intend to enter into the discussion between you, only the monetary policies of the countries are of my interest.


----------



## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> China purchases oil, natural gas and other resources from Russia through CNY used by BKCL. *Russia uses CNY* to buy the goods they need from China. What's the problem? Of course, China will not agree to use rubles for settlement. Russia has agreed to use CNY for settlement.
> 
> Russia can also exchange some physical dollars and euros through offshore CNY. This is not difficult to operate.


Where does the "Russia uses CNY" come from??

And no, they cannot exchange dollars and Euro thru offshore CNY........Set aside legality for a minutes, I mean how do you suppose they do that when all their asset outside Russia and China is frozen?? Who guarantee that "exchange"? And then the entire legality come into question. you do that and you will probably will pay a big fine, remember how US get Canada to arrest Huawei Director's daughter for "circumventing Iranian sanction?"


----------



## SIPRA

RescueRanger said:


> I too want to hear what @PanzerKiel has to say, sir your input would be valuable to this thread.



@PanzerKiel Sahib hum sub ko kissi Ghotki jannay waalay *truck ki batti* kay peechhay laga dain gay.

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## A.P. Richelieu

jamal18 said:


> The US had nothing to do with it?
> 
> Orwellian logic.


Russians and Americans cut a deal.
The Cubans had no say there.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504408059648655367



A winning side would never put land-mines in their territory. This is proof that the Ukrainians know that it is just a matter of time before the Russians seize Odessa.

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## MH.Yang

dBSPL said:


> Is there an official report confirming this 30,000 tons claim? Central banks' trading operations should be transparent in terms of market reliability and auditability. So there should be official reports on how much gold China's CB buys annually. Don't get me wrong, I do not intend to enter into the discussion between you, only the monetary policies of the countries are of my interest.


No, the official figure of the Chinese government is always 1948 t. But you can search any institution for analysis of China's gold reserves. The United States, Europe, India and so on. They will tell you how to calculate and estimate China's gold reserves.


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> In short term? Nothing. There are still foreign reserve within Russia that Russian can use, and until that has depleted, nothing will change. But once that has been depleted, then depends on how much China help out, it range from business as usual to everything close down and Russia went back to coupon system for just about everything.
> 
> I don't know how long Russia can hang on to those foreign money and I don't know when will the West lift the sanction, so I cannot tell you what will happen in a year or so.


you are saying russia needs foreign reserves to use in russia? Russia uses the ruble in russia. 

It only needs foreign reserves for trade with other countries that demand a hard currency. 

countries have their own currencies for domestic use.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> A winning side would never put land-mines in their territory. This is proof that the Ukrainians know that it is just a matter of time before the Russians seize Odessa.


so you're still arguing with yourself about who is winning?

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## dBSPL

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> A winning side would never put land-mines in their territory. This is proof that the Ukrainians know that it is just a matter of time before the Russians seize Odessa.


The occupying party is Russia. In other words, Russia is the side that moves to win. Ukraine is not winning anything. On the contrary It continues to lose every day. All it can do is slow Russian army down and stop it at a certain point. That may be possible, once the attrition of the Russian army and economy has reached the point where a Ukraine war victory will no longer be meaning.

The destruction of the infrastructure that Russia can use, also mining of the territorial waters and routes that can be used by the Russian logistic are very understandable and even necessary solutions.


----------



## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> Where does the "Russia uses CNY" come from??
> 
> And no, they cannot exchange dollars and Euro thru offshore CNY........Set aside legality for a minutes, I mean how do you suppose they do that when all their asset outside Russia and China is frozen?? Who guarantee that "exchange"? And then the entire legality come into question. you do that and you will probably will pay a big fine, remember how US get Canada to arrest Huawei Director's daughter for "circumventing Iranian sanction?"



Meng Wanzhou was persecuted by trump. Huawei cannot be stupid enough to do business in Iran through the British HSBC.
BKCL will not provide the FBI with customer information. BKCL is a state-owned enterprise. It belongs to the Chinese govt, not the British.
What is more absurd is that Huawei is a private enterprise, and Americans can persecute Meng Wanzhou. China's oil and other enterprises are all state-owned enterprises. Who is USA going to arrest? Arrest Xi JinPing? If it is to arrest the top management of these state-owned enterprises, the Chinese govt can replace them at any time. Does that make sense?


BTW: One more thing we need to know. China's trade with Russia and other countries through BKCL is not that China is afraid of US sanctions, that is China leaving room for Western governments to solve problems. China also attaches importance to the market and trade relations of western countries. Western govts also understand this, so they will only complain to China symbolically, and will not undermine bilateral trade relations.

China's trade right is China's sovereignty. China is a country capable of safeguarding its sovereignty. China is willing to avoid conflicts with western countries by setting up BKCL, which is China's goodwill to the West. Western governments generally understand and accept this goodwill. Even trump is not crazy enough to pursue the three shareholders of BKCL. Otherwise, Wall Street will help the Chinese find a mental disease gunman. We know that Wall Street has a lot of experience in this area, Kennedy and others can testify.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504413396980142086


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Again, answer me these two question.
> 
> 1.) Where do you get your money from?
> 2.) Where do the Russian get their money from?
> 
> US never sanction any other bank does not have any bearing in this, because Central Bank of China is the one that initiate monetary policy in China. As long as Central Bank of China was not sanctioned, you can raise whatever fund you want.
> 
> But bear in mind that you are no talking about a few billions dollars, or a few hundred billions dollars. You are talking about loaning trillions of dollars worth of your currency to a known default risk. Which mean either the Russia will pay you back with Rouble (which worth nothing) or they will not pay you back at all, at least until the sanction lifted. That mean the only way you can recover those money is to write it off and print new one. Again, A trillions dollars worth or more?
> 
> On the other hand, how do you think Russia is going to pay you back? They cannot guarantee their money, which mean there are no way you can set a price with them (Because that would depends on a currency swap deal and again, would you swap Rouble with RMB now? That's the question) unless you are talking about goods to goods trade, then you need to ask yourself this. What good would it do to Huawei, Oppo, SAIC or Chinese bank get oil or gas in return of their goods and service?? Can they spend those oil?


I think you overestimate the role reserve currencies have on a country. Or the importance they play in international trade. 

No doubt, being excluded fro swift or being prevented in trading USD or EUR will affect you if you want to raise debt internationally or trade in complex financial derivatives invented in London. 

But to run your economy or trade oil with china, it is totally unnecessary. Venice was trading with china long before USD or EUR even existed.

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## Apollon

coffee_cup said:


> A lot of this is held by Fed Reserve and last time Germany wanted to inspect her gold, they flatly rejected their request. So I am not sure, Germany will ever be able to see her gold held in the US, :-(



Germany repatriated most of its gold 3 years ago.


----------



## dBSPL

The European Union demanded that Turkey shut down RT and Sputnik channels.

Head of the European Union Delegation to Turkey Nikolaus Meyer-Landrut stated that they expect Ankara to impose restrictions on "Russian propaganda channels" such as the Russian television channel RT.

They totally screwed up. We should start by closing the European media organizations that make anti-Turkish propaganda from morning to night.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504447443739586572


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504428902835445763


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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> I think you overestimate the role reserve currencies have on a country. Or the importance they play in international trade.
> 
> No doubt, being excluded fro swift or being prevented in trading USD or EUR will affect you if you want to raise debt internationally or trade in complex financial derivatives invented in London.
> 
> But to run your economy or trade oil with china, it is totally unnecessary. Venice was trading with china long before USD or EUR even existed.


First of all, when Venice was trading with China back in 1800, you are talking about a small amount of trade, mostly from silk road or by ship at sea. You can handle that volume with gold, silver or what have you, but you can't if you are talking about multi billions dollars or even trillions dollars of trade, how small the represented value of gold you need to guarantee for you to have guarantee 1 trillions worth of trade with 2300 tons of gold, and that's assume all trade are done with a single entity, China.

Second of all, reserve currency is the backbone of guaranteeing your own currency, as I said before, you cannot use USD to guarantee the value of USD, you may as well crave the number of 100 and said that guarantee 100 US Dollar bill. That's the same with every other country on earth that are using the Fiat Currency system. You need a constant influx of foreign currency to exchange with other nation to guarantee your own. 100 USD worth 100 USD is because at any time I can trade it with 76 GBP or 134 AUD, and I have enough GBP and AUD to guarantee those transaction, that's why a note that worth no more than 10cents to make have a denomination of $100 USD. 

Now, imagine, all the USD and GBP or AUD is gone, and Russia can only trade RMB to keep the currency balance. How much RMB would you think they needed? This is not about "Convenience" this is about whether or not I can guarantee Rouble to a certain level of value to keep that value steady and use it for Trade. I mean, who's going to trade with you if this minute 1 Rouble is worth 0.0059 Yuan and the next is worth 0.0050 Yuan??


----------



## Apollon

jhungary said:


> First of all, when Venice was trading with China back in 1800, you are talking about a small amount of trade, mostly from silk road or by ship at sea. You can handle that volume with gold, silver or what have you, but you can't if you are talking about multi billions dollars or even trillions dollars of trade, how small the represented value of gold you need to guarantee for you to have guarantee 1 trillions worth of trade with 2300 tons of gold, and that's assume all trade are done with a single entity, China.
> 
> Second of all, reserve currency is the backbone of guaranteeing your own currency, as I said before, you cannot use USD to guarantee the value of USD, you may as well crave the number of 100 and said that guarantee 100 US Dollar bill. That's the same with every other country on earth that are using the Fiat Currency system. You need a constant influx of foreign currency to exchange with other nation to guarantee your own. 100 USD worth 100 USD is because at any time I can trade it with 76 GBP or 134 AUD, and I have enough GBP and AUD to guarantee those transaction, that's why a note that worth no more than 10cents to make have a denomination of $100 USD.
> 
> Now, imagine, all the USD and GBP or AUD is gone, and Russia can only trade RMB to keep the currency balance. How much RMB would you think they needed? This is not about "Convenience" this is about whether or not I can guarantee Rouble to a certain level of value to keep that value steady and use it for Trade. I mean, who's going to trade with you if this minute 1 Rouble is worth 0.0059 Yuan and the next is worth 0.0050 Yuan??



2nd biggest currency is €. Not GBP


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> you are saying russia needs foreign reserves to use in russia? Russia uses the ruble in russia.
> 
> It only needs foreign reserves for trade with other countries that demand a hard currency.
> 
> countries have their own currencies for domestic use.
> 
> 
> so you're still arguing with yourself about who is winning?


Again, this is about Fiat Currency. 

The golden rule of Fiat Currency is. *YOU CANNOT USE ROUBLE TO GUARANTEE THE VALUE OF ROUBLE IN RUSSIA. *

You need to have enough foreign currency in your own country to trade so they can guarantee the value of your own.

Marco Economic 101. How do I define a note worth no more than 10 cents to have $100 dollars? You can't just say "This note is worth $100" and people are going to believe it is when it only worth 10 cents. You need a way to "Guarantee" that value. You do that by have 76 GBP in your bank, and when you trade that 76 GBP with an UK Bank, you get the value of $100 back, and the UK (or Australia, or China, or Japan or any other country on earth) did the same to keep their own currency valued.

So yes, unless you do not want to guarantee your own currency anymore, you will need to have Foreign Reserve in your own country.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504437531164745729

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504437534251790343@Apollon


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## jhungary

Apollon said:


> 2nd biggest currency is €. Not GBP


Don't think I said 2nd Biggest Currency is GBP

I use GBP as an example simply because I am lazy. I got to type 3 letters instead of 4.....



MH.Yang said:


> Meng Wanzhou was persecuted by trump. Huawei cannot be stupid enough to do business in Iran through the British HSBC.
> BKCL will not provide the FBI with customer information. BKCL is a state-owned enterprise. It belongs to the Chinese govt, not the British.
> What is more absurd is that Huawei is a private enterprise, and Americans can persecute Meng Wanzhou. China's oil and other enterprises are all state-owned enterprises. Who is USA going to arrest? Arrest Xi JinPing? If it is to arrest the top management of these state-owned enterprises, the Chinese govt can replace them at any time. Does that make sense?
> 
> 
> BTW: One more thing we need to know. China's trade with Russia and other countries through BKCL is not that China is afraid of US sanctions, that is China leaving room for Western governments to solve problems. China also attaches importance to the market and trade relations of western countries. Western govts also understand this, so they will only complain to China symbolically, and will not undermine bilateral trade relations.



That is beside the point, the point is, this is about legality and what you said is illegal.

And also BKCL is not Swiss bank, good luck finding an overseas bank that will deal with that with anonymity, your "scheme" to trade offshore Yuan under the table would have to depend a third party overseas bank, and while you may say Chinese bank not afraid of sanction, you probably cannot say the same with other overseas bank.

Especially the one that have enough USD and YUAN to perform such a trade.......

That also did not answer my question. Where is the Russian "CNY" come from? You can only have a certain amount of CNY world wide and domestically without damaging your own economy. So where are those CNY russian is going to use is coming from? From where I see it, you either print more or extend more line of Credit to Russia, which mean inflation, or you buy RMB back from Overseas and trade it with Russia, which devalue RMB, either way is a poison for CYN


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Second of all, reserve currency is the backbone of guaranteeing your own currency, as I said before, you cannot use USD to guarantee the value of USD, you may as well crave the number of 100 and said that guarantee 100 US Dollar bill. That's the same with every other country on earth that are using the Fiat Currency system. You need a constant influx of foreign currency to exchange with other nation to guarantee your own. 100 USD worth 100 USD is because at any time I can trade it with 76 GBP or 134 AUD, and I have enough GBP and AUD to guarantee those transaction, that's why a note that worth no more than 10cents to make have a denomination of $100 USD.
> 
> Now, imagine, all the USD and GBP or AUD is gone, and Russia can only trade RMB to keep the currency balance. How much RMB would you think they needed? This is not about "Convenience" this is about whether or not I can guarantee Rouble to a certain level of value to keep that value steady and use it for Trade. I mean, who's going to trade with you if this minute 1 Rouble is worth 0.0059 Yuan and the next is worth 0.0050 Yuan??



I think the issue here is this "guarantee". You think that, before Russia and China can trade RMB:RUB russia needs some sort of hard currency in its bank in order to guarantee that the RUB will maintain its value. 

You think gold cant do this? you think Russia having RMB will not do this?

And thirdly, are you sure they need any sort of guarantee? RUB is a fiat currency also. 

Fourthly, I am certain that the trade can be performed one way or another even if the obstacles you talk about really do exist. I know this because international trade used to happen way before the gold standard was totally abandoned in the 1970's. I also know that Europe and America were to disappear down a hole, International trade would continue. I think this is pretty obvious.


----------



## Wood

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504437531164745729
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504437534251790343@Apollon


40K mercenaries?! That is good enough to kickstart a demographic change in Ukraine

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> That also did not answer my question. Where is the Russian "CNY" come from?


They would come from china, in exchange for oil.


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## dBSPL

The Turkish foreign minister is in Ukraine today after his Moscow contacts yesterday.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504450108720562180


https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1BRJjnEXVwpJw


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## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> Several Russian MOD planes heading to Siberia ?
> 
> View attachment 824864
> 
> View attachment 824865
> 
> 
> One of the planes bound for Siberia is the Russian Federation's presidential command plane, the Russian Air Force One.
> 
> View attachment 824866



This feels ominous .....


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> I think the issue here is this "guarantee". You think that, before Russia and China can trade RMB:RUB russia needs some sort of hard currency in its bank in order to guarantee that the RUB will maintain its value.
> 
> You think gold cant do this? you think Russia having RMB will not do this?
> 
> And thirdly, are you sure they need any sort of guarantee? RUB is a fiat currency also.
> 
> Fourthly, I am certain that the trade can be performed one way or another even if the obstacles you talk about really do exist. I know this because international trade used to happen way before the gold standard was totally abandoned in the 1970's. I also know that Europe and America were to disappear down a hole, International trade would continue. I think this is pretty obvious.



1.) Yes, you need other hard currency in Russia (other than Rouble) to guarantee the value of Rouble as I explained before. And if you can no longer use USD, GBP, Euro, JPY, AUD (They are all sanctioned) which mean you either can only guarantee a small amount of your currency if your RMB level remain unchanged (Which mean inflation) or You buy RMB like crazy to substitute the lost amount of USD, GBP, JPY, AUD. Which mean you weaken CNY by doing so, now, would China willing to either inflate their own currency or weaken their international status to game with Russia? I don't know, seeing that I don't believe in Putin will start this war and he started it anyway, there are no tale to tell.

2.) Again, back to gold. As I said, there are 2 issue. 
a.) You either have a super inflated exchange rate or super slow economic growth to offset the demand of gold backing currency.
b.) anyone with similar amount of gold can come in and influx your economy, Again, I can buy 1 ton of gold for 61 millions dollars, but if Russia uses gold as backing currency, my personal wealth will expanded 10 fold because I can use it in Russia for 608 millions dollars, and it is ABSOLUTELY possible to own 1 ton of gold.

3.) Yes, that's what Fiat currency is about. This is not about how much you say it worth, this is about how much you can exchange it to other currency so it worth that value.

4.) I can tell you that if US and EU were to disappear down a hole, then currency is probably the last thing you need to worry about. And Trade will still go on if US and EU is not involved. It would be under a different system. And it cannot work internationally, also, that would not solve your problem.


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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504448133568335873


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## Meengla

Foinikas said:


> Why are you so obsessed with Mearsheimer? You're stuck talking about him because someone mentioned him like 10-20 pages earlier.
> 
> And yes,I'm not a communist. On the contrary. I'm everything communists despise actually. Greek Orthodox and romantic pro-monarchist 😋
> 
> People don't have to be communists to oppose Western invasions.



A big problem with people like @gambit is that they cherry pick what Mearsheimer is saying. Mearsheimer is, of course, not going to condone this war started by Russia! Doing so would make him--a well known professor from a major American university-- discredited. But Mearsheimer is establishing a perspective about the Russian invasion viz a viz the perceived threats to Russia and Mearsheimer is showing the mirror to Americans about the American hypocrisy about the Cuban Missile Crisis,about claiming an entire hemisphere for itself, and about the illegal war against Iraq in 2003. Mearsheimer is factual while @gambit, in the words of @Avicenna above is truly doing 'obfuscation'.
To me the American illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003 opened the gates for other countries to do the same! And let us not forget the consequences of that invasion and subsequent American-led and/or American funded wars in the MENA region, leading to horrendous consequences for tens of millions of people. How about considering the scale of the destruction and destabalization in that region?? 
But some are free to continue their 'obfuscation'! I think their problem is beyond even hypocrisy--their problem is a sense of entitlement, of 'exceptionalism'.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> They would come from china, in exchange for oil.


So, where did the Chinese extra CNY come from? It does not come out of a bank out of thin air

You either print it or you pull it from overseas. Either way, doing so will damage your currency value.


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## Vergennes

More russian junk destroyed


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504453014337241091

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## Paul2

Ali_Baba said:


> This feels ominous .....



They don't need missile planes to launch nukes if Putin is in Moscow, and he can first strike.

Actually it's a show of weakness, saying that the man with authority fled somewhere, or he is unsure of stationary comms reliability.


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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> The golden rule of Fiat Currency is. *YOU CANNOT USE ROUBLE TO GUARANTEE THE VALUE OF ROUBLE IN RUSSIA. *
> 
> You need to have enough foreign currency in your own country to trade so they can guarantee the value of your own.


Yes russia would use the RMB. It would get it from china in exchange for oil. sounds pretty simple. 

If this rule actually exists. The ruble is guaranteed by Russias industrial capacity and the ability to purchase these industrial and agricultural goods with the RUB. 

Thin about it. There are only 2 countries to a transaction. Or two people. Those two people or countries make the rules.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

203 mm artillery shooting


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504394727868833798
knocked out Ukrainian S-300


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504451671975473153


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504410029042114567




When this war is settled, everybody wants to get their hands on the Russian-built Ka-52 helicopters. This war has been a great advertisement for the Ka-52 heli and Su-25 plane.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## LeGenD

Xerxes22 said:


> Well basically we are saying the same thing. Russia did miscalculate the situation alot. Obviously in both strategic in tactical levels.
> 
> On a strategic level they misunderstood the stand that the Kiev leaders and the resistance people would put up against the invasion. On a tactical level, yes I understand it is cost effective to build up forces near the border as they did but even so they kept waiting and waiting after full mobilisation. All the while Ukraine was getting armed. And the American and EU war machine and intelligence was gearing up to support the Ukrainians with military intelligence when the time came.
> 
> The west was setting up their infrastructure already to assist Ukraine in a coordinated manner. So that's why I thought instead of just sitting them down like ducks they cudve attacked after the mobilisation was complete.
> 
> Also no one cud ever imagine, that Russia wud suffer so much losses. They tried many times to land VVD behind enemy lines without any support and they got wiped out completely on several occasions. Now these are their elite fighters.
> 
> However I know, if this was not a former Soviet Slavic country.... Russia wudve just levelled cities like Mariupol, Kiev, Kharkov like Grozny. Their MRLS are very deadly. But they chose rather to get bogged down and encircle the cities and not use as much shelling in order to protect civilians. Which I think is the humane thing to do. And kudos to them for that.


Some good points in your post.

Russians also needed time to prepare for the war and launched a military operation when they felt they were ready. Military buildup process is a complex development in itself. Economic considerations also come into play in this matter.

Russian forces are not taking Ukraine lightly in any capacity. For perspective, Russian forces have used over a 1000 cruise missiles and ballistic missiles to strike at high value targets inside Ukraine by now. This is a much higher count in comparison to use of these standoff munitions in other countries such as in Chechnya, Georgia and Syria respectively. Some of the technologies were not available for use in Chechnya in fact. This is but a tip of the iceberg because much of the action is taking place on the ground. Several Ukranian cities have suffered extensive destruction due to periodic episodes of heavy fighting and attempts to soften Ukranian positions in urban environments with artillery pieces and MLRS from a distance. But Russian forces are also taking losses in exchanges of fire with Ukranians. Russians have lost a large number of military vehicles and thousands of troops in clashes across Ukraine by now. Russians have lost multiple aircraft and helicopter gunships as well. They thought that Ukraine will be a walk in the park for them like in Georgia and Syria where they could bomb locations at will and losses were minimum. Russians have no choice but to be more calculative while attempting to take Ukranian cities, therefore. 

Situation in Kharkiv:









Over 600 buildings destroyed in Ukrainian city of Kharkiv, mayor says


More than 600 buildings have been destroyed in Kharkiv, Ukraine's second city in the east of the country, since the start of Russia’s invasion, Mayor Ihor Terekhov said in a televised interview on Tuesday.




www.reuters.com





Situation in Mariupol:









Mariupol bombing: before and after satellite images show destruction in Ukraine city


More than 1,000 people have been killed by Russian shelling, says mayor, amid outcry over attacks on residential areas and maternity hospital




www.theguardian.com





Russian sources can see the obvious as well:









Ukraine’s Cities Destroyed by Russian Airstrikes With No End in Site - The Moscow Times


Gallery | Ukrainian cities defiant as they continue to be shelled by Russian forces.




www.themoscowtimes.com

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504423119888416785



Wow

It seems the Ruskies are defeating an army of more than 1 million men backed by the NATO alliance. If anything, Russians have demonstrated resiliency and great war planning.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503774393691947015
The lady in the video is the person who trolled Channel 1 (Russia's primary news channel) with a placard on live news that said 'No to War'


----------



## dBSPL

In Ukraine, a deepfake video message was broadcast on hacked state television, calling for Zelensky to "surrender" to the country. The video caused short-term concern. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504444804364738565

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Yes russia would use the RMB. It would get it from china in exchange for oil. sounds pretty simple.
> 
> If this rule actually exists. The ruble is guaranteed by Russias industrial capacity and the ability to purchase these industrial and agricultural goods with the RUB.
> 
> Thin about it. There are only 2 countries to a transaction. Or two people. Those two people or countries make the rules.



Well, maybe it work in your mind, actual economy does not work that way. Industrial might is just that, I mean, how about you tell a machine worker I will not pay you salary and instead I give you an iphone every month, you can exchange money for goods and services, for food for an example, you cannot eat an iphone....

And again, where is the money China use to buy Russian oil come from in the first place? 

You can of course do that, but then first of all, the world have more than 2 countries in it, and doing so will seriously damage your own (In Chinese perspective) I never said China cannot do it, I only say if China do it, you basically isolate Chinese own currency in exchange for an isolated Russia. I mean, it is up to Chinese authority to decide whether or not to go down that deep road and help out Russia, conventional wisdom suggest no, but again, as I said, conventional wisdom also suggest Russia will not invade Ukraine as there are no way they can win strategically, but they do it anyway.


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## Wood

dBSPL said:


> In Ukraine, a deepfake video message was broadcast on hacked state television, calling for Zelensky to "surrender" to the country. The video caused short-term concern.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504444804364738565


This is a terrible deep fake. Russians are not good at even this psy ops


----------



## Ali_Baba

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504447443739586572



First time i have seen that video (but you may have seen it before).

Does not look like the pilot would have survived the last second ejection he did.

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> You buy RMB like crazy to substitute the lost amount of USD, GBP, JPY, AUD. Which mean you weaken CNY by doing so, now, would China willing to either inflate their own currency or weaken their international status to game with Russia?



this would not weaken RBM. it would make more in demand and thus make it more valuable.


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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504422639506534406

Reactions: Like Like:
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## dBSPL

Wood said:


> This is a terrible deep fake. Russians are not good at even this psy ops


Yes, very unsuccessful. However, the important thing here is that deepfake has now become one of the tools of hybrid wars. There are also very advanced algorithms in this field and it will soon be possible to generate fake content that cannot be understood without forensic tools.

For example, there is an algorithm written specifically for Tom Cruise.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365133854248345600

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503380159994511362

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## Hassan Al-Somal

dBSPL said:


> The Turkish foreign minister is in Ukraine today after his Moscow contacts yesterday.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504450108720562180
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1BRJjnEXVwpJw



Brother Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu should tell the Ukrainians: Look guys, you really dropped the ball; why did you choose to be cannon fodder for the English-speaking world and their Zionist masters? You guys brought this upon yourself. Now, to rescue yourself from this hole that you're in, you gotta accept the demands of Russia. And from there, we can request the Russians to accommodate at least some of your concerns.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> this would not weaken RBM. it would make more in demand and thus make it more valuable.


.........How?

You cannot offer more supply even if Demand spike, this is not an automobile or mobile phone market we are talking about.......

The only way you can increase supply of your currency is to decrease your own currency value. Unless I am missing some magic carpet ride........

Also, Russian "Demand" is not at all more "valuable" as this is not a matter of "Demand" but rather "Affordability", I mean, I and 400,000 other people demand to get an Aston Martin does not mean Aston Martin will give me and 400,000 other a Free Aston Martin DB9, and it certainly did not increase the value of Aston Martin.....


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

dBSPL said:


> Yes, very unsuccessful. However, the important thing here is that deepfake has now become one of the tools of hybrid wars. There are also very advanced algorithms in this field and it will soon be possible to generate fake content that cannot be understood without forensic tools.
> 
> For example, there is an algorithm written specifically for Tom Cruise.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365133854248345600
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503380159994511362




The guy looks like Cristiano Ronaldo.


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## Apollon

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> When this war is settled, everybody wants to get their hands on the Russian-built Ka-52 helicopters. This war has been a great advertisement for the Ka-52 heli and Su-25 plane.



I like your fine sense of satire.

They are indeed fine,to plow potato fields.

Form what i have seen all shot downs tumble forward and fiest crash with nose into the soil.


----------



## dBSPL

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504422639506534406


Uzbekistan also does not participate in embargoes against Russia and has officially become part of the Russian banking payment system Mir. In other words, it adopts a universal principle of neutrality that emphasizes international law and its requirements. Turkey, Azerbaijan and Uzbekistan mostly act as a common wing, in this issue.

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## Ali_Baba

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> When this war is settled, everybody wants to get their hands on the Russian-built Ka-52 helicopters. This war has been a great advertisement for the Ka-52 heli and Su-25 plane.



No way - No way - this war has killed off the Russian Military Industrial complex and has given a massive steroid boost to Turkey with its UCAVs that perform so damn well in 2 wars recently !!!! Also the west for personal systems like SAMs and Manpads.

You have Su-34s / Su-30SMs / Su-25s all doing ultra low level bombing runs using DUMB BOMBs... no laser guided bombs or GPS(russian equivalent) guided SOW .. but line of sight - bombing runs using basic gravity fall dumb bombs and they are all getting shot down while they are doing it.

You have these same platforms incapable of performing basic SEAD operations to knock out Ukraines AD network ...

There is no joined up picture between the Russian Airforce or Army - no combined operations ..

Russia's weapons industry is dead after this war - no one is looking at any Russian equipment thinking they want a piece of that .

Future wars are smart wars with AI, and drones, and joined up network centric war - none of that is shown as the Russians dont understand that concept at all.

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## SIPRA

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Brother Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu should tell the Ukrainians: Look guys, you really dropped the ball; why did you choose to be cannon fodder for the English-speaking world and their Zionist masters? You guys brought this upon yourself. Now, to rescue yourself from this hole that you're in, you gotta accept the demands of Russia. And from there, we can request the Russians to accommodate at least some of your concerns.



The person (Joe Biden), who is giving the instructions and directions, is *senile*; and the person (Zelenskyy), who is on the receiving end, is on *drugs*. What is to be expected?


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504409663844102144


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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> 3.) Yes, that's what Fiat currency is about. This is not about how much you say it worth, this is about how much you can exchange it to other currency so it worth that value.
> 
> 4.) I can tell you that if US and EU were to disappear down a hole, then currency is probably the last thing you need to worry about. And Trade will still go on if US and EU is not involved. It would be under a different system. And it cannot work internationally, also, that would not solve your problem.


I think it can work easily. 

RUB is guaranteed by the industrial strength of Russia. It needs no other guarantee. And through trade it will find its true value. 

example. Russia has a closed economic system lets say. but needs to sell its oil. We all know how much oil is on the world market. So it sells to china in some sort of RUB:RMB trade. They will come to an agreement as to the value of the RUB based on how much the sale of that oil will give the Russian seller. And the Russian seller will have an expectations of purchasing stuff from china himself with the proceeds of that transaction. 

So 1 barrel of Russian oil will have to buy the Russian seller 100 loafs of bread in a Chinese shop and likewise 100 loafs of bread in a Russian shop approximately. 

If the Russian seller of that one barrel of oil will be able to buy only 1 chewing gum in Beijing with it, he will know its not a fair price. So he will find another buyer or he wont sell. 

If the oil seller manages to get a fair price for his oil and is able to buy 100 loafs of bread in Beijing, but upon returning to russia, is able to buy a house with that money, then it will be obvious to everyone that the RUB is too low and the value will adjust very quickly using market forces. 

So this is what would happen. its bilateral trade using two fiat currencies and bypassing the international system. It can work and it will work.


----------



## Foinikas

Meengla said:


> A big problem with people like @gambit is that they cherry pick what Mearsheimer is saying. Mearsheimer is, of course, not going to condone this war started by Russia! Doing so would make him--a well known professor from a major American university-- discredited. But Mearsheimer is establishing a perspective about the Russian invasion viz a viz the perceived threats to Russia and Mearsheimer is showing the mirror to Americans about the American hypocrisy about the Cuban Missile Crisis,about claiming an entire hemisphere for itself, and about the illegal war against Iraq in 2003. Mearsheimer is factual while @gambit, in the words of @Avicenna above is truly doing 'obfuscation'.
> To me the American illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003 opened the gates for other countries to do the same! And let us not forget the consequences of that invasion and subsequent American-led and/or American funded wars in the MENA region, leading to horrendous consequences for tens of millions of people. How about considering the scale of the destruction and destabalization in that region??
> But some are free to continue their 'obfuscation'! I think their problem is beyond even hypocrisy--their problem is a sense of entitlement, of 'exceptionalism'.


And the other thing is that Iraq,Kosovo,Libya and Syria are all far away from USA. Ukraine is right next to Russia and it had been a part of Russia for centuries. Russians didn't wake up one day and say "Oh let's invade a country". 

And in the end...who paid for the 2003 Iraq War? Bush didn't go on a trial as a war criminal. Did anyone from Bush administration and the U.S. government get punished for all the chaos and false accusations of "Weapons of Mass Destruction"? For the killings of civilians accidentally or intentionally by U.S. forces and private security contractors? 

They go and accuse the Russians of bombing and killing civilians. They call Putin a "war criminal". 

I remember how back in 1999,2001 and 2003 every now and then,the State Department would talk about "mistakes". These NATO "mistakes" cost the lives of people. They would say "We had wrong intelligence,we thought Saddam was there" or "we thought the Taliban were there". And a school or a hospital or a house or a shelter would be bombed. And hundreds of people would die. And nobody would get prosecuted,nobody nobody imposed sanctions on the U.S. government and its people and the American army would just say "Well it's war,there is collateral damage in every war" and keep bombing.

They marched through Baghdad as liberators. They went in Afghanistan and liberators. I remember how Iraqis despised them and wanted them to go. Not all Iraqis of course. But many of those who even hated Saddam,wanted them to go.

And now they talk about Putin and Russia and say "Oh look,they think they are liberating Ukraine! The Ukrainians hate them,they don't want them there".

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## jhungary

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504409663844102144


This is more or less expected. 

India need to do this to protect its own investment in Russia. But I don't see this is going to be that big of a scale, probably enough to prop up Indian investment....


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## jamahir

Wood said:


> This is a terrible deep fake. Russians are not good at even this psy ops



It is actually good that the Russians are not good at deep-fake psy ops. Such dubious work really suits your heros the Western governments. Is there a single Western governments leader who can talk with the simple and straight talk that Putin does ?


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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> So, where did the Chinese extra CNY come from? It does not come out of a bank out of thin air
> 
> You either print it or you pull it from overseas. Either way, doing so will damage your currency value.


you just take it out of circulation in china. You dont have to print new ones. There is money in circulation in china.


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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504416003396194308lol

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> I think it can work easily.
> 
> RUB is guaranteed by the industrial strength of Russia. It needs no other guarantee. And through trade it will find its true value.
> 
> example. Russia has a closed economic system lets say. but needs to sell its oil. We all know how much oil is on the world market. So it sells to china in some sort of RUB:RMB trade. They will come to an agreement as to the value of the RUB based on how much the sale of that oil will give the Russian seller. And the Russian seller will have an expectations of purchasing stuff from china himself with the proceeds of that transaction.
> 
> So 1 barrel of Russian oil will have to buy the Russian seller 100 loafs of bread in a Chinese shop and likewise 100 loafs of bread in a Russian shop approximately.
> 
> If the Russian seller of that one barrel of oil will be able to buy only 1 chewing gum in Beijing with it, he will know its not a fair price. So he will find another buyer or he wont sell.
> 
> If the oil seller manages to get a fair price for his oil and is able to buy 100 loafs of bread in Beijing, but upon returning to russia, is able to buy a house with that money, then it will be obvious to everyone that the RUB is too low and the value will adjust very quickly using market forces.
> 
> So this is what would happen. its bilateral trade using two fiat currencies and bypassing the international system. It can work and it will work.


Let me ask you a simple question.

What would a Chinese Bread seller do if Russian pay them 1 barrel of oil for 100 breads?? Can the Bread seller than sell it? How? Go to the corner of a street and sell it on the road side? I mean, it may make sense if only him doing that. But then how about the same Russian who gave a Chinese Furniture Seller 1 barrel of oil for 100 chair? Or a mobile phone vendor 100 mobile phone? Or 100 pack chewing gum? How are you going to get rid of the oil? I mean, I made 100 bread, all those material I put into making that 100 bread I cannot get it back because I wasn't paid in Money but I got paid by a barrel of oil...., but I can't use the oil, it's not refined and I can't just put it in my car, nor can I sell it, it's not like there is a "oil r' us" in every corner in Chinese street taking rogue crude oil from Chinese street vendor....

And if I were that vendor, I would just sell 100 bread to another Chinese vendor or to a Japanese buyer to get 100 Yuan. Why would I go all in and deep into trouble and being a fender of rogue oil when I can just sell it to other for cold hard cash?

As I said, it may work in your mind, but it is not how economy work...I mean, you are free to believe you can do that, but all I am saying is this is not how economy works....


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## nang2

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503774393691947015
> The lady in the video is the person who trolled Channel 1 (Russia's primary news channel) with a placard on live news that said 'No to War'


Russia is certainly freer than China. She would have been completely silenced in China.


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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> you just take it out of circulation in china. You dont have to print new ones. There is money in circulation in china.


How do you take it out of circulation in China? You need them to do domestic trade.......


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504461611427323906
Russian losses are now well over 1400.

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## Wood

jhungary said:


> This is more or less expected.
> 
> India need to do this to protect its own investment in Russia. But I don't see this is going to be that big of a scale, probably enough to prop up Indian investment....


India will walk through this mess like it is on a landmine dispersed with gold nuggets. India's foreign policy is not fully independent because of the different economic and security dependencies that India has on global players. Yesterday, WH press secretary said that India's oil deal with Russia is morally wrong but not against sanctions that have been put on Russia thus far. In the past, India has both acquiesced and rebuffed Washington's oil sanctions against Iran.

My best understanding of Indian gov. in general is that these global issues between big powers are not something that India will care too much about. This is historically the case. Public sentiment in India can be with Ukraine because of Russia's outright invasion, but that does not have any influence on India's foreign policy. Indian people do not think about foreign policy when they head to the ballot box. There are plenty of other domestic affairs that Indians care about. Majority of 'em cannot point Ukraine on a map anyway


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## dBSPL

From the first days of the war, the Russians continue to bomb Kharkov heavily from the air and from the ground. Fire broke out in some of the places hit today. However, the Russian army was unable to take the city. They inflict heavy casualties in residential area conflicts.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504443515648028676

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ka-52 CAS helicopter


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504391086705451028


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## Wood

jamahir said:


> It is actually good that the Russians are not good at deep-fake psy ops. Such dubious work really suits your heros the Western governments. Is there a single Western governments leader who can talk with the simple and straight talk that Putin does ?


Yes, I remember a guy from Germany who had similar talk. He shot himself in a bunker subsequently. Silly fellow


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## Invicta

LeGenD said:


> Some good points in your post.
> 
> Russians also needed time to prepare for the war and launched a military operation when they felt that they were ready. Military buildup process is a complex development in itself. Economic considerations also come into play in this matter.
> 
> Russian forces are not taking Ukraine lightly in any capacity. For perspective, Russian forces have used over a 1000 cruise missiles and ballistic missiles to strike at high value targets inside Ukraine by now. This is much higher count in comparison to use of these standoff munitions in other theaters such as Chechnya, Georgia and Syria respectively. This is but a tip of the iceberg because much of the action is taking place on the ground. Several Ukranian cities have suffered extensive destruction by now due to periodic episodes of heavy fighting and attempts to soften Ukranian resistance with extensive shelling with artillery pieces and MLRS.
> 
> But Russians are suffering losses in exchanges of fire. They have lost a large number of military vehicles and thousands if troops by now. They thought that Ukraine will be a walk in the park for them like Georgia and Syria where they could fight and bomb locations at will. Not here.



Just speaking to my son about all things worldly and somehow the subject changed to school ground bullies.
He used the phrase "*its not the shouty ones you want to watch out, its the silent one*". Putin has been shouty since the beginning, the reality has unraveled Russian bravado like a school ground bully.

We heard tall tales of Su30's, Su35's we heard the invincibility of the Armata the sheer lethality of the Su57. Where are they? 
It seems all planners in Moscow were fighting a war on paper and completely forgot about their own capabilities. The hype men within Putin's circle did a great job in telling him what he wanted to know, he is now learning what he should have been told instead.

How can a superpower fail so miserably to gain air supremacy over the battlefield, that long convoy was a joke - if that had happened in Afghanistan or Iraq the General in question would have been slaughtered in the media. 

Even looking at Russian top units the VDV and the Spetnaz - what happened to their near invincible training and effectiveness in battle. It has turned those units into a joke, so much so that now Putin's hype men would have me believe that some Syrian mercenaries are a better more effective solution to winning this war compared to crack units like VDV and Spetnaz.

I think like you I was very much of the opinion that this would be another Georgia and Syria, Ukrainians have surprised me with their resolve, and coupled with military assistance from other countries they have brought the Kremlin war machine to a stand still. Russians were deceived into thinking this will be a walk in the park - evident by their use of conscripts and Chechen fighters. The reality has now dawned on them - this is a very motivated enemy who is dug in deep and protecting their territory. Russian response in using higher number of standoff weapons is a result of their realisation of the current realities. 

Putin's speech yesterday showed a bully who for the first time has faced someone who took a stand - the result is utter disbelief in his own people. He was blaming traitors at home - the same traitors who until yesterday were his comrades. The current peace talks are going ahead in a good direction - would you believe that if Russia was winning or even close to securing its objectives. 

No one winning a war will take to the Table. This only happens in a stalemate - unfortunately for him this stalemate benefits Ukraine more than it does Russia. For now they should priorities cutting their losses - that is if they have anyone bold enough to tell them the fact as they are. The damage is extensive for Russia and the repercussions will be felt long after this is all over and probably even after Putin goes away.

NATO will now swallow more countries - there is going to be no if's or but's. If the ceasefire is reached and even if Russia gets/cuts most of the territory from Ukraine the remaining country will be extremely hostile to mainland Russia. Europe/UK/USA will be fighting over each other to sell their weapons to Ukrainians. If this conquest was hard for Russia, the next one will be neigh-on-impossible. This is just my understanding and forecast of how things might turn out. 

Must say you and other Mods have done a good job on this thread its one place where I can get all sides of the story minus the rare off-topic troll-shouts.

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## Messerschmitt




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## nang2

jhungary said:


> How do you take it out of circulation in China? You need them to do domestic trade.......


By not issuing new loans after recovering old ones.


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## jhungary

Wood said:


> India will walk through this mess like it is on a landmine dispersed with gold nuggets. India's foreign policy is not fully independent because of the different economic and security dependencies that India has on global players. Yesterday, WH press secretary said that India's oil deal with Russia is morally wrong but not against sanctions that have been put on Russia thus far. In the past, India has both acquiesced and rebuffed Washington's oil sanctions against Iran.
> 
> My best understanding of Indian gov. in general is that these global issues between big powers are not something that India will care too much about. This is historically the case. Public sentiment in India can be with Ukraine because of Russia's outright invasion, but that does not have any influence on India's foreign policy. Indian people do not think about foreign policy when they head to the ballot box. There are plenty of other domestic affairs that Indians care about. Majority of 'em cannot point Ukraine on a map anyway


Well, US had yet to sanction Russia oil and gas industry, they only pledged not to buy Russian oil, well, boohoo, it's only 700,000 barrel a day...

As I say, I understand why India did this. But yes, it's like you said, this is going to be a mine field mixed with gold.

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## Wood

nang2 said:


> Russia is certainly freer than China. She would have been completely silenced in China.


I'm surprised that she was let go so easily. But maybe she should be careful getting poisoned like many other have.


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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504364531845373954

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504466317306626054

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Sad Sad:
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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504462399805353989


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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> By not issuing new loans after recovering old ones.


But then you are issuing new loan to the Russian.......

And you have two things on two hand here.

On one hand, a hard working Chinese probably asking for a loan to buy a house and can repay with their hard work.
On the other hand, you have a Russian company who according to 4 world leading credit rating agency listed as "Close to Bankrupt" and asking for a loan so they can buy more stuff from you and yet incur another loan. Which it is uncertain for them to even paid it off.

If you are a loan officer in a Chinese bank, who will you choose?


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## jamahir

Wood said:


> Yes, I remember a guy from Germany who had similar talk. He shot himself in a bunker subsequently. Silly fellow



Instead of being snarky you should be rational.


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## Invicta

Ali_Baba said:


> No way - No way - this war has killed off the Russian Military Industrial complex and has given a massive steroid boost to Turkey with its UCAVs that perform so damn well in 2 wars recently !!!! Also the west for personal systems like SAMs and Manpads.
> 
> You have Su-34s / Su-30SMs / Su-25s all doing ultra low level bombing runs using DUMB BOMBs... no laser guided bombs or GPS(russian equivalent) guided SOW .. but line of sight - bombing runs using basic gravity fall dumb bombs and they are all getting shot down while they are doing it.
> 
> You have these same platforms incapable of performing basic SEAD operations to knock out Ukraines AD network ...
> 
> There is no joined up picture between the Russian Airforce or Army - no combined operations ..
> 
> Russia's weapons industry is dead after this war - no one is looking at any Russian equipment thinking they want a piece of that .
> 
> Future wars are smart wars with AI, and drones, and joined up network centric war - none of that is shown as the Russians dont understand that concept at all.


Exactly that is my take on this as well. In the current world of net centric warfare there is no coherence between different military assets deployed by Russia. This is so outdated.

Also where is the latest Russian hardware? What use is the best tank in the world if you are not using it to fight your wars.

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> What would a Chinese Bread seller do if Russian pay them 1 barrel of oil for 100 breads?? Can the Bread seller than sell it? How? Go to the corner of a street and sell it on the road side? I mean, it may make sense if only him doing that. But then how about the same Russian who gave a Chinese Furniture Seller 1 barrel of oil for 100 chair? Or a mobile phone vendor 100 mobile phone? Or 100 pack chewing gum? How are you going to get rid of the oil? I mean, I made 100 bread, all those material I put into making that 100 bread I cannot get it back because I wasn't paid in Money but I got paid by a barrel of oil...., but I can't use the oil, it's not refined and I can't just put it in my car, nor can I sell it, it's not like there is a "oil r' us" in every corner in Chinese street taking rogue crude oil from Chinese street vendor....


Exactly, thats why it would never happen. The oil trade would be done in a RUB:RMB trade by oil buyer and oil seller who are professionals and the bread seller wold not be involved.


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## Maarkhoor

Apollon said:


> The thing is, that russia never cared for their soldiers. So he propably will push more and more into this chaos.


Suppose Putin don't care but Russian do care they will through away Putin but before it could happen Putin would do best to bring Russia as a winner and for that he would not mind to use nukes.


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## Wood

jamahir said:


> Instead of being snarky you should be rational.


Instead of telling people on the internet what to do, you should give us your opinions. We'll decide to take it or not based on our rational


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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Exactly, thats why it would never happen. The oil trade would be done in a RUB:RMB trade by oil buyer and oil seller who are professionals and the bread seller wold not be involved.


Then how the Russian get the bread? If the bread makers are not involved,.

And you can't balance RUB:RMB because it's one side who pay the money, and the other side pay with oil...The same equation applies, where do the Chinese get the extra money to pay for the Russian oil to begin with?


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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504462190916653056


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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> As I said, it may work in your mind, but it is not how economy work...I mean, you are free to believe you can do that, but all I am saying is this is not how economy works....


Well. you can rest assured that Russia will sell oil to not just china but most of the world who are not involved in these sanctions without any problem. or with the minimal of problems. 

And it will be done in currency and not some barter transaction. We will see.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504462779075506178


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## Invicta

Maarkhoor said:


> Suppose Putin don't care but Russian do care they will through away Putin but before it could happen Putin would do best to bring Russia as a winner and for that he would not mind to use nukes.


I don't think it will ever get to that stage, Putin might loose his marbles and effectively order a nuclear strike but I very much doubt the chain of command in Russia will let such a scenario develop or go unchallenged. Any sort of nuclear strike by Russia will trigger retaliatory strikes by NATO members etc and we will be in MAD.


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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> How do you take it out of circulation in China? You need them to do domestic trade.......


oh come on. buying oil from russia will not deplete the Chinese currency and leave nothin left for domestic trade. are you kidding?


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## jamahir

Wood said:


> Instead of telling people on the internet what to do, you should give us your opinions. We'll decide to take it or not based on our rational



My opinion is that you are being slavish to NATO on this thread and against my progressive views in India-related threads.


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## nang2

jhungary said:


> But then you are issuing new loan to the Russian.......
> 
> And you have two things on two hand here.
> 
> On one hand, a hard working Chinese probably asking for a loan to buy a house and can repay with their hard work.
> On the other hand, you have a Russian company who according to 4 world credit rating agency listed as "Close to Bankrupt" and asking for a loan so they can buy more stuff from you and yet incur another loan. Which it is uncertain for them to even paid it off.
> 
> If you are a loan officer in a Chinese bank, who will you choose?


It is OK. Getting the money back isn't most important thing. Money just doesn't buy you stuffs. It also buys you political influence, which would bring in other benefits. That is how US plays. They often issue loans to countries that are close to bankruptcy. At the time of insolvency, they will propose loan "restructuring", which often means to issue more loans so that the receiver can continue the interest payment. It brings in multiple benefits:

1. The interest of the commercial banks that issue the first batch of loans is secured. The political support from these bankers are also secured.
2. You can ask for other concessions from the receiver of the loan attached with the new loans.
3. The new loans are usually backed by US government via tax money through IMF/World Bank.

Win-win-win for everyone, except the taxpayers.


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## Apollon

thetutle said:


> Well. you can rest assured that Russia will sell oil to not just china but most of the world who are not involved in these sanctions without any problem. or with the minimal of problems.
> 
> And it will be done in currency and not some barter transaction. We will see.



Good luck with that. As it stands Russia cant deliver oil or gas in a few month because technology embargo and Russia has no ability to make its own. For same reason collapsed oil industry in Venezuela and Russia could not help them.


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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504467745324220417

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

jamahir said:


> My opinion is that you are being slavish to NATO on this thread and against my progressive views in India-related threads.


Cool. 

I rationally reject your opinions. Glad we have that settled


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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Well. you can rest assured that Russia will sell oil to not just china but most of the world who are not involved in these sanctions without any problem. or with the minimal of problems.
> 
> And it will be done in currency and not some barter transaction. We will see.


That's the same reply I have with @MH Yang not so long ago.

A.) It's illegal
B.) You will need to find an oversea bank that not afraid of being sue for sanction violation. 

Good luck on that.


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## nang2

thetutle said:


> oh come on. buying oil from russia will not deplete the Chinese currency and leave nothin left for domestic trade. are you kidding?


Arguing with him about money matter is futile. I have tried.

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## jamahir

Wood said:


> Cool.
> 
> I rationally reject your opinions. Glad we have that settled



So you are fine with being slavish to NATO ?


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## CrazyZ

A lot of economic chatter on this thread now. People are talking about things I brought up 500 pages ago. This simple reality is this:

Russia will take Ukraine but NATO/western bloc will make it pay in blood and gold
Russia is forcing a "new world economic order" to emerge.
Western countries control the global financial heights today but they will be increasingly challenged maintaining this going forward
Excessive money printing, high debt, overuse of financial weapons and demographic decline are huge issues in the west that are forcing ROW to look for alternatives in the global financial order
China will benefit from this, its financial, real-estate and service industries will boom going forward due to increased foreign investment (analogous to USA in the 80's).

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> oh come on. buying oil from russia will not deplete the Chinese currency and leave nothin left for domestic trade. are you kidding?


Again, you are not talking about a few millions here and there, Russian oil export alone is worth roughly 200 billions.........Gas is about 250 billions. You are talking about flooding ~ 500 billions (let's say with wheat and precious metal and so on as well) in currency market.....

You do know even USD have only 2 trillions dollar + change in circulation, you are talking about flooding 1/4 of the entire US currency value in China......


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## Meengla

Foinikas said:


> And the other thing is that Iraq,Kosovo,Libya and Syria are all *far away from USA*.



Bolded part.
This is a tragedy for the world, for humanity. Americans are blessed with geographical isolation to bomb the crap out of the world. Even in the two major wars the American mainland was almost unscathed. Actually, those two World Wars contributed to America's rise. It is the Europeans who are yet again going to face the consequences. And trust me: IF America had not supported Ukraine then all the European countries wouldn't lift a finger!! 

Having said that, there IS strong anti-war sentiment in America. In case of the Iraq invasion in 2003, a bare majority supported the war despite years of media programming. But now everyone knows how disastrous that war turned out to be for the region and for thousands of American families. I see hope in this country. 
Anyway, people like Mearsheimer, Tucker Carlson, Kim Iverson, Tulsi Gabbard and many like them who are Americans and are able to speak in a language which resonates with ordinary Americans are a threat to a certain mindset in America--and thus they are to be discredited.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504468994371162120

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Russians are claiming to have documents that confirm biological weapons activity in Ukraine conducted by the US military. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504458128078815244
It seems we're heading to World War III. The conflict between Russia and the West is turning to angles that no one was expecting.....

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## Wood

jamahir said:


> So you are fine with being slavish to NATO ?


Did I not say that I reject your opinion?

Don't be like the mosquito that is buzzing in people's ear. Let us be in peace


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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> It is OK. *Getting the money back isn't most important thing*. Money just doesn't buy you stuffs. It also buys you political influence, which would bring in other benefits. That is how US plays. They often issue loans to countries that are close to bankruptcy. At the time of insolvency, they will propose loan "restructuring", which often means to issue more loans so that the receiver can continue the interest payment. It brings in multiple benefits:
> 
> 1. The interest of the commercial banks that issue the first batch of loans is secured. The political support from these bankers are also secured.
> 2. You can ask for other concessions from the receiver of the loan attached with the new loans.
> 3. The new loans are usually backed by US government via tax money through IMF/World Bank.
> 
> Win-win-win for everyone, except the taxpayers.


Wow, I think you should never work in any Banking Industry.......

You should work in a charity or something........


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504470207057735690

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jamahir

Wood said:


> Did I not say that I reject your opinion?
> 
> Don't be like the mosquito that is buzzing in people's ear. Let us be in peace



If you want your crass, snarky, irrational and salivating-for-NATO-slave opinions to prevail then exit the internet or at least this *discussion* forum.

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> Again, you are not talking about a few millions here and there, Russian oil export alone is worth roughly 200 billions.........Gas is about 250 billions. You are talking about flooding ~ 500 billions (let's say with wheat and precious metal and so on as well) in currency market.....
> 
> You do know even USD have only 2 trillions dollar + change in circulation, you are talking about flooding 1/4 of the entire US currency value in China......


I really don't get your logic. China needs oil and gas. It can get them from anywhere. If it chooses to get more from Russia, it means it gets less from other places. The same amount of oil and gas, the same amount of money you use for purchase. Where is the increase of currency?

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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> Arguing with him about money matter is futile. I have tried.


When you said "tried" you mean the time you said Fiat Currency are defined as anything and you don't need any backing? That time?


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## Wood

jamahir said:


> If you want your crass, snarky, irrational and salivating-for-NATO-slave opinions to prevail then *exit the internet or at least this discussion forum.*


Make me


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## nang2

jhungary said:


> Wow, I think you should never work in any Banking Industry.......
> 
> You should work in a charity or something........


Think about the bigger picture. International loans, especially those with governments or entities with close government tie, are never just for money. Of course, losing money is never an option, unless it is taxpayers' money.



jhungary said:


> When you said "tried" you mean the time you said Fiat Currency are defined as anything and you don't need any backing? That time?


yep.


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## Amliunion

Mariupol:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504470865529872387

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> I really don't get your logic. China needs oil and gas. It can get them from anywhere. If it chooses to get more from Russia, it means it gets less from other places. The same amount of oil and gas, the same amount of money you use for purchase. Where is the increase of currency?


What you failed to see is you either needed "Extra" money to buy "Extra" oil from Russia.

Or you don't buy stuff from other country and spare those money to buy "Extra" Russian oil. 

As I said before, you can choose, and if you honestly think this is a lot better to trust a country that 4 big credit agency just listed as "Junk" status, instead of other client, then be my guest, I have no complaint.....

I mean, it's your money.


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Then how the Russian get the bread? If the bread makers are not involved,.
> 
> And you can't balance RUB:RMB because it's one side who pay the money, and the other side pay with oil...The same equation applies, where do the Chinese get the extra money to pay for the Russian oil to begin with?


You're twisting yourself up in knots, unnecessarily. 

A russia china oil trade will be the easiest thing in the world. They will create a mechanism for it and if they have to, the Chinese will bring a van load of USD cash and drive it to Moscow if need be.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504437779631120388
Military advisor to Zelensky now believes Ukraine can win the war with Russia. Premature assessment, but the Russian offensive has largely stalled for a couple weeks now.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## dBSPL



Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Wood

I'm not able to differentiate between Russians and Ukrainian ethnic people. But chances are that this girl is Russian given that Kharkiv has a big population of Russians. They clearly say that Russians should not be in their land.


----------



## jhungary

nang2 said:


> Think about the bigger picture. International loans, especially those with governments or entities with close government tie, are never just for money. Of course, losing money is never an option, unless it is taxpayers' money.
> 
> 
> yep.



Money don't buy you power............The US and EU had tried in the 70s, 80s and 90s. They give loan to those people you are giving now in Africa, what you are thinking is if I gave money to those country, and when I needed a favor, they will do it in return. In reality, the same thing happens to US and UK and EU will happen to China, they will just take your money and run.

Dude, do you know how much money we gave to Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Congo, CAR and rest of Africa?? And how's that go? There is a reason we are no longer doing it. And this simpson video tell you why.


----------



## Meengla

jamahir said:


> So you are fine with being slavish to NATO ?



This @Wood person, in a message above, clearly said that because Canada's interests lie with in American camp--and he is living in Canada--and so it is quite okay to turn a blind eye to international events as long as it serves* his interests*. He is a 'well adjusted' Indian in Canada who could even sell India's interests if I were to guess. Humanity doesn't matter as long as *his interests* are served. People like him hide behind 'freedom and democracy' or 'sovereignty' or other higher principles despite whatever facts are given to them, but it is not hard to spot opportunism, intellectual laziness and hypocrisy in such people.
I believe unless the world is a fair world we are condemned to eternal wars. And for that we need to question everything in front of us as a start. And we need to especially question the dominant media narratives because they are purposefully driven. *Some people could benefit from watching Michael Moore's 'Fahrenheit 911'.*

Reactions: Like Like:
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## nang2

jhungary said:


> What you failed to see is you either needed "Extra" money to buy "Extra" oil from Russia.
> 
> Or you don't buy stuff from other country and spare those money to buy "Extra" Russian oil.
> 
> As I said before, you can choose, and if you honestly think this is a lot better to trust a country that 4 big credit agency just listed as "Junk" status, instead of other client, then be my guest, I have no complaint.....
> 
> I mean, it's your money.


The "extra" money is just a shift of your existing money. You may plan to do some investment elsewhere. Now, Russia oil is the deal of the century. So, you table your original plan to buy Russia oil. It is the same as how housewives manage their purchase with their money.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ka-52 Alligator CAS helicopter


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504391086705451028


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504453738966228993


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504440205352349700

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504442083293245444

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504459536823902209

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504472611463450631


----------



## Wood

jhungary said:


> Money don't buy you power............The US and EU had tried in the 70s, 80s and 90s. They give loan to those people you are giving now in Africa, what you are thinking is if I gave money to those country, and when I needed a favor, they will do it in return. In reality, the same thing happens to US and UK and EU will happen to China, they will just take your money and run.
> 
> Dude, do you know how much money we gave to Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Congo, CAR and rest of Africa?? And how's that go? There is a reason we are no longer doing it. And this simpson video tell you why.


The difference between US/EU loans and Chinese loans is that Chinese have asset based guarantees for their loans. I don't know if US did the same in most of their soft loans


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504462779075506178



Very informative!


----------



## nang2

jhungary said:


> Money don't buy you power............The US and EU had tried in the 70s, 80s and 90s. They give loan to those people you are giving now in Africa, what you are thinking is if I gave money to those country, and when I needed a favor, they will do it in return. In reality, the same thing happens to US and UK and EU will happen to China, they will just take your money and run.
> 
> Dude, do you know how much money we gave to Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Congo, CAR and rest of Africa?? And how's that go? There is a reason we are no longer doing it. And this simpson video tell you why.


It is OK. You don't always get what you want. But you do get what you want sometimes. That is good enough. After all, it is the taxpayers' money that backs you up. You don't pay a single cent in it. Who wouldn't want this kind of deal?


----------



## thetutle

Apollon said:


> Good luck with that. As it stands Russia cant deliver oil or gas in a few month because technology embargo and Russia has no ability to make its own. For same reason collapsed oil industry in Venezuela and Russia could not help them.


Russia didn't want to help a competitor. If you think russia cant extract its own oil, I think you are mistaken and will be surprised.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504304182756581380


----------



## nang2

Wood said:


> The difference between US/EU loans and Chinese loans is that Chinese have asset based guarantees for their loans. I don't know if US did the same in most of their soft loans


The real difference is that US has marines to eventually get the asset. China doesn't. EU probably doesn't, either.

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## SIPRA

Meengla said:


> This @Wood person, in a message above, clearly said that because Canada's interests lie with in American camp--and he is living in Canada--and so it is quite okay to turn a blind eye to international events as long as it serves* his interests*. He is a 'well adjusted' Indian in Canada who could even sell India's interests if I were to guess. Humanity doesn't matter as long as *his interests* are served. People like him hide behind 'freedom and democracy' or 'sovereignty' or other higher principles despite whatever facts are given to them, but it is not hard to spot opportunism, intellectual laziness and hypocrisy in such people.
> I believe unless the world is a fair world we are condemned to eternal wars. And for that we need to question everything in front of us as a start. And we need to especially question the dominant media narratives because they are purposefully driven. *Some people could benefit from watching Michael Moore's 'Fahrenheit 911'.*



In brief, @Wood ka "phuddu" laga hua hae, and he wants to enjoy it.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

captured BTR-4


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504382200095072256


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> You're twisting yourself up in knots, unnecessarily.
> 
> A russia china oil trade will be the easiest thing in the world. They will create a mechanism for it and if they have to, the Chinese will bring a van load of USD cash and drive it to Moscow if need be.


lol........

I can see this happening.....China drive up to Moscow with truck load of USD.

As I said, every dollar, Yuan, Euro have to come from somewhere, I mean, I have no problem for you to believe what you just said is going to happen. That's your opinion. But reality is reality. 

I don't really know why you people think it is that easy. If it is that easy, Rouble will not drop 30% against USD and Russian economy is not in the pooper now. But hey, if believing that will make you sleep better at night, why not?


----------



## Wood

Meengla said:


> This @Wood person, in a message above, clearly said that because Canada's interests lie with in American camp--and he is living in Canada--and so it is quite okay to turn a blind eye to international events as long as it serves* his interests*. He is a 'well adjusted' Indian in Canada who could even sell India's interests if I were to guess. Humanity doesn't matter as long as *his interests* are served. People like him hide behind 'freedom and democracy' or 'sovereignty' or other higher principles despite whatever facts are given to them, but it is not hard to spot opportunism, intellectual laziness and hypocrisy in such people.
> I believe unless the world is a fair world we are condemned to eternal wars. And for that we need to question everything in front of us as a start. And we need to especially question the dominant media narratives because they are purposefully driven. *Some people could benefit from watching Michael Moore's 'Fahrenheit 911'.*


More importantly, people like me don't care about what people like you have to say about me in the least


----------



## jhungary

nang2 said:


> The "extra" money is just a shift of your existing money. You may plan to do some investment elsewhere. Now, Russia oil is the deal of the century. So, you table your original plan to buy Russia oil. It is the same as how housewives manage their purchase with their money.


Well, that's why I said you should not have ever work in a bank.......



Wood said:


> The difference between US/EU loans and Chinese loans is that Chinese have asset based guarantees for their loans. I don't know if US did the same in most of their soft loans


US also have asset based loan, US loan Congo the money in exchange of lease and ownership of Uranium and Gold/Diamond mine.

But then one word would reverse all that. "Nationalisation" After the US and co have developed those mine and start running it.

That's why Congo is at war and a UN secretary was killed in a plane crash.......RIP

Read up war in Congo

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Again, you are not talking about a few millions here and there, Russian oil export alone is worth roughly 200 billions.........Gas is about 250 billions. You are talking about flooding ~ 500 billions (let's say with wheat and precious metal and so on as well) in currency market.....
> 
> You do know even USD have only 2 trillions dollar + change in circulation, you are talking about flooding 1/4 of the entire US currency value in China......


Russian oil and gas exports are 150 billion per year USD. They can pay in different currencies, but I suspect it will be a RUB:RMB trade of some sort. We will find out soon.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Gold is real money. The rest are all garbage.


----------



## nang2

jhungary said:


> Well, that's why I said you should not have ever work in a bank.......


True. I don't work in a bank. It doesn't mean what I said isn't right. Besides, many people working in banks are clueless about money, too. My investment banks always want to assign some wealth manager to help with my investment. Many discussions with them have convinced me that they are really clueless. Maybe my nest egg isn't big enough to attract the top-notch manager. I don't know.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> Gold is real money. The rest are all garbage.


Silver is also real money. So are platinum and palladium.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504128277786640390

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Russian oil and gas exports are 150 billion per year USD. They can pay in different currencies, but I suspect it will be a RUB:RMB trade of some sort. We will find out soon.



Well, consider in 2021 Russian gas/oil export is 34% of Russian GDP, and Russian GDP in 2021 is 1.4 trillions dollars. It's more closer to 500 billions than 150 billions.......

It would be disaster for Russian economy if Russian Oil and Gas export is 150 billions, because the next biggest export is wheat, stand at 7 billions a year....


----------



## Amliunion

What the ****!!!!


“It’s one thing for sarin gas to be used on people in far away Syria who are Muslim and who are of a different culture but what is Europe going to do when it’s used on European soil on Europeans?”



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504460026471190533

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504474240027750405
Hope the injured are able to recover


----------



## jhungary

nang2 said:


> True. I don't work in a bank. It doesn't mean what I said isn't right. Besides, many people working in banks are clueless about money, too. My investment banks always want to assign some wealth manager to help with my investment. Many discussions with them have convinced me that they are really clueless. Maybe my nest egg isn't big enough to attract the top-notch manager. I don't know.
> 
> 
> Silver is also real money. So are platinum and palladium.


What is right? What is wrong?

I mean this is how you do business, I am just telling you this is not how I do business if I want to make money. I mean you can give out all your money for the poor or Russian, that's your provocative. 

As I said, you should never have been working in a bank, that does not mean whether what you said is right or wrong.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504475774983684098

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2 | Wow Wow:
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## Wood

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504128277786640390


I don't think that Russia recognized ICJ


----------



## jamal18

Journalist Lara Logan, truth bombs on the conflict. Excellent.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504449337144877059

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## thetutle

Wood said:


> I'm not able to differentiate between Russians and Ukrainian ethnic people. But chances are that this girl is Russian given that Kharkiv has a big population of Russians. They clearly say that Russians should not be in their land.


She is neither Russian nor Ukrainian ethnicity.

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## nang2

Amliunion said:


> What the ****!!!!
> 
> 
> “It’s one thing for sarin gas to be used on people in far away Syria who are Muslim and who are of a different culture but what is Europe going to do when it’s used on European soil on Europeans?”
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504460026471190533


I respect such a person far more than those with masks.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504144895501557762Putin is mentally exhausted.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504409663844102144



If this trade without the US Dollar between India and Russia materializes, then Vladimir Putin has achieved one of his main objectives to confront the West. His main goal has been that any trade with Russia should be done without the US Dollar in the middle. This is the underlying root causes of this war and the subsequent sanctions that the West imposed on his country.

Other leaders such as Saddam Hussein (rahihumullah) and Mu'amar Gaddafi (rahihumullah) tried, but they lose their lives as a result of the wars that were unleashed on their countries. So for Russia, it is a powerful country compare to Iraq and Libya; therefore, the Freemasonry world is imposing heavy sanctions on him and also instigating the countries that are near them. But onbviously if countries like China, India, and others are carrying out trade outside the US dollar, then some of Putin's main goals are getting implemented even if he loses his life.

Third, people should study Islamic eschatology. The conflict between the forces of Dajjal (Antichrist) and Rome (Easten Church or Orthodox Christians) has been prophesied. Today, the center of Orthodox Christianity in Russia. The end result of this war will be the end of the fraudulent money that the Dajjal's minions use to control the world. We're indeed heading to Malhama (Armageddon).

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> What is right? What is wrong?
> 
> I mean this is how you do business, I am just telling you this is not how I do business if I want to make money. I mean you can give out all your money for the poor or Russian, that's your provocative.
> 
> As I said, you should never have been working in a bank, that does not mean whether what you said is right or wrong.


Well, I try to spare you with money jargons. But with plain language and common sense logic, you still don't get it. That is why I said such a discussion is futile.


----------



## jhungary

nang2 said:


> Well, I try to spare you with money jargons. But with plain language and common sense logic, you still don't get it. That is why I said such a discussion is futile.


Well, I probably better off not knowing your "money jargon" when you seems to think Fiat money is without bound and guaranteed by nothing......

Yes, such a discussion is futile.


----------



## Meengla

Very relevant to this discussion is Michael Moore's documentary. People working for the weapon industry and people sitting in remote places couldn't give a crap about who gets killed as their politicians led their country to illegal wars. Ever wonder why the Republicans and Democrats lawmakers, who don't seem to agree upon anything except that the Sun rises from the East, are so much much in agreement over the Ukraine policy?? It is because the Military Industrial Complex--to which most of them are beholden--*creates jobs in their constituencies, leading to potential re-elections to office*. Follow the money trail!!


----------



## Wood

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> *If this trade without the US Dollar between India and Russia materializes, then Vladimir Putin has achieved one of his main objectives to confront the West*. His main goal has been that any trade with Russia should be done without the US Dollar in the middle. This is the underlying root causes of this war and the subsequent sanctions that the West imposed on his country.


If this is true, then it is counter intuitive to see that Putin has half of his currency reserves in USD and EURO.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504477525979795474

Reactions: Like Like:
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## nang2

jhungary said:


> Well, I probably better off not knowing your "money jargon" when you seems to think Fiat money is without bound and guaranteed by nothing......
> 
> Yes, such a discussion is futile.


OK, tell me what guarantees fiat money.


----------



## jhungary

Wood said:


> If this is true, then it is counter intuitive to see that Putin has half of his currency reserves in USD and EURO.


Actually, what he did not realise is that by doing this, they are going to need more USD and Euro....

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## thetutle

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504475774983684098


oh yeah, I'd like to see that. How will they come? let them take Hungary and Croatia along the way.

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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> OK, tell me what guarantees fiat money.


Dude, I am not going to go back to a post I made 3 weeks ago, and I just did with another member.

You know what I said 3 weeks ago, and if you want to know again, go back to that post.

Or I will ask you the same question, why a $100 note worth $100 and not the 10 cents it was printed on? And if you think it's the Fed that said so, then you have a bigger problem then what guaranteed Fiat Money....Because Fed can say the 1.03 trillions US National T Bond China is holding worth 0.001 cents and that, I think would be a bigger problem then what guarantee fiat money.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504473380573040640

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## Wood

Interesting tactic by some people from the IT community. They've created an app that can crowd source text messages to random Russian people about the war.


----------



## nang2

jhungary said:


> Dude, I am not going to go back to a post I made 3 weeks ago, and I just did with another member.
> 
> You know what I said 3 weeks ago, and if you want to know again, go back to that post.
> 
> Or I will ask you the same question, why a $100 note worth $100 and not the 10 cents it was printed on? And if you think it's the Fed that said so, then you have a bigger problem then what guaranteed Fiat Money....Because Fed can say the 1.03 trillions US National T Bond China is holding worth 0.001 cents and that, I think would be a bigger problem then what guarantee fiat money.


Then read this: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fiatmoney.asp


----------



## Dustom999

Fish out of water wiggles the most! Western media is making it Obvious . 
Relax, as initially stated Russia will carve out nations! Surgery is underway, don't be impatient.


----------



## jhungary

nang2 said:


> Then read this: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fiatmoney.asp


Did you even read your own source?



> Fiat money is a government-issued currency that is not backed by a physical commodity, such as gold or silver, but rather by the government that issued it. *The value of fiat money is derived from the relationship between supply and demand and the stability of the issuing government, rather than the worth of a commodity backing it*. Most modern paper currencies are fiat currencies, including the U.S. dollar, the euro, and other major global currencies.


Care to explain what "*the relationship between supply and demand" *mean? Does that mean "Nothing"?


----------



## Meengla

Reuters.com front page right now. Never mind that all NATO countries are protected by American military umbrella. Never mind that Russia is a has-been and a B-Grade power. War is big bucks in America and Europeans are once again proving incapable of independent thinking and, if this war spreads, it will be Europe which will pay a huge price. But it's a win for China, too.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503759722729684993


----------



## Apollon

thetutle said:


> Russia didn't want to help a competitor. If you think russia cant extract its own oil, I think you are mistaken and will be surprised.



Yes i think they cant extract their own oil. Russia is not an industrialized country.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504479150500810759


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Havoc CAS helicopter


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504456210753499137


----------



## Apollon

Meengla said:


> Reuters.com front page right now. Never mind that all NATO countries are protected by American military umbrella. Never mind that Russia is a has-been and a B-Grade power. War is big bucks in America and Europeans are once again proving incapable of independent thinking and, if this war spreads, it will be Europe which will pay a huge price. But it's a win for China, too.
> 
> 
> View attachment 824945



What you dont understand is, that facist russia is the enemy of Europe. We dont need USA to understand whats going pn and that this Russian regime must be destroyed. No matter what

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> Did you even read your own source?
> 
> 
> Care to explain what "*the relationship between supply and demand" *mean? Does that mean "Nothing"?


It is a relationship, not a guarantee since supply is very easy to accomplish. It is just a few keystrokes. No other goods can be made this easy, not even a twitter post.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504484571982622722

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## Apollon

More russian trash

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## Wood

nang2 said:


> It is a relationship, not a guarantee since supply is very easy to accomplish. It is just a few keystrokes. *No other goods can be made this easy*, not even a twitter post.


US can print money easily because of $ reserve status. Other countries cannot afford to do so without more severe consequences.


----------



## nang2

Apollon said:


> Yes i think they cant extract their own oil. Russia is not an industrialized country.


Think in this way. Daqing oil field, one of the few million barrel oil fields in the world, was developed in China back around 1959. China wasn't an industrialized country at all.


----------



## Wood

nang2 said:


> Think in this way. Daqing oil field, one of the few million barrel oil fields in the world, was developed in China back around 1959. China wasn't an industrialized country at all.


Not all oil fields are made equal. You should know that as a resident of Canada


----------



## Meengla

Apollon said:


> What you dont understand is, that facist russia is the enemy of Europe. We dont need USA to understand whats going pn and that this Russian regime must be destroyed. No matter what



I would NEVER want to live in a cold, grey, suffocating place like Russia and I had said that above. But I think Russia is too hyped up just like the USSR was hyped up. Russia is destined to be part of Europe, given time, especially after Putin, but some countries couldn't wait for that. *The corporations in America want big money and they want it now.* Europe should pray that the continent doesn't burn like it did during the two World Wars. I believe a cornered Putin could go to any length to appear a 'victor'. I hope there is peace and it wouldn't come to that, otherwise Europe will burn again and burn bright again.


----------



## nang2

Wood said:


> US can print money easily because of $ reserve status. Other countries cannot afford to do so without more severe consequences.


That unaffordability is really a blessing. Using Canadian dollar as an example, though Canada central bank has 0 gold reserve (it has sold all), its printing machine is highly constrained for the fear of political backlash caused by high inflation. Because of that, I trust Canadian dollar more than US dollar. Pretty much all my bond is in Canadian dollar although a large portion of my stock asset is in US.

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## Ali_Baba

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504475774983684098



Huh - the Russians would need to go via Moldova / Romania / Serbia to get there first!!!!


----------



## nang2

Wood said:


> Not all oil fields are made equal. You should know that as a resident of Canada


To my knowledge. Russia oil is mostly traditional ones. Not oil sand or shale oil. Maybe I am mistaken.


----------



## Apollon

nang2 said:


> Think in this way. Daqing oil field, one of the few million barrel oil fields in the world, was developed in China back around 1959. China wasn't an industrialized country at all.



China is not Russia amigo. China always was pro technology. Russia never was


----------



## Wood

nang2 said:


> To my knowledge. Russia oil is mostly traditional ones. Not oil sand or shale oil. Maybe I am mistaken.


From what I've read recently, Russian oil fields cannot be extracted profitably without western technology to support the extraction. This is admittedly not a well informed opinion from me.

EDIT: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/08/business/russian-oil-industry.html


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504486705776119816


----------



## nang2

Apollon said:


> China is not Russia amigo. China always was pro technology. Russia never was


Do you know how backward China was back in 1959?


----------



## Apollon

Meengla said:


> I would NEVER want to live in a cold, grey, suffocating place like Russia and I had said that above. But I think Russia is too hyped up just like the USSR was hyped up. Russia is destined to be part of Europe, given time, especially after Putin, but some countries couldn't wait for that. *The corporations in America want big money and they want it now.* Europe should pray that the continent doesn't burn like it did during the two World Wars. I believe a cornered Putin could go to any length to appear a 'victor'. I hope there is peace and it wouldn't come to that, otherwise Europe will burn again and burn bright again.



I dont see it that way. We see in Ukraine how weak Russia is. At this point i dont even support negotiations but simply fight for major military victories.



nang2 said:


> Do you know how backward China was back in 1959?



I do. But the people are different. Look at Russia, where corrupt officials put cardboard armor on tanks to steal budget.


----------



## jamahir

Wood said:


> Make me



If it had been left to me I would put every internet joiner to the test of decency and rationality.



Meengla said:


> This @Wood person, in a message above, clearly said that because Canada's interests lie with in American camp--and he is living in Canada--and so it is quite okay to turn a blind eye to international events as long as it serves* his interests*. He is a 'well adjusted' Indian in Canada who could even sell India's interests if I were to guess. Humanity doesn't matter as long as *his interests* are served. People like him hide behind 'freedom and democracy' or 'sovereignty' or other higher principles despite whatever facts are given to them, but it is not hard to spot opportunism, intellectual laziness and hypocrisy in such people.
> I believe unless the world is a fair world we are condemned to eternal wars. And for that we need to question everything in front of us as a start. And we need to especially question the dominant media narratives because they are purposefully driven. *Some people could benefit from watching Michael Moore's 'Fahrenheit 911'.*



Agreed on all points.

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## nang2

Apollon said:


> I dont see it that way. We see in Ukraine how weak Russia is. At this point i dont even support negotiations but simply fight for major military victories.


Ukraine isn't much stronger, either. Negotiation usually exists because nobody can achieve a decisive victory. So, watch the progress of the negotiation, you would know what happened on the battle fields.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504478417302929411

Reactions: Like Like:
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## dbc

thetutle said:


> You're twisting yourself up in knots, unnecessarily.
> 
> A russia china oil trade will be the easiest thing in the world. They will create a mechanism for it and if they have to, the Chinese will bring a van load of USD cash and drive it to Moscow if need be.



Russian Oil and Gas is NOT sanctioned. China is free to pay the Russians in Renminbi which Russia can use to pay for imports. The Russian sanctions in place so far limit the countries Russia can sell O&G to reducing returns from energy exports.

60% of Russian oil and gas transportation infrastructure is built to serve Europe. The amount of oil and gas Russia can divert on short notice to China is limited.
China gets to dictate terms and pricing. The Russians will lose money in the Renminbi for oil deal.
Major European and American oilfield companies are still operating in Russia. Once Oil and Gas is sanctioned these firms will be forced to leave causing Russian output to drop significantly in the coming years..
China has other commitments Saudi, Iran and Venezuela to name a few. China cannot go all in on Russian oil and gas.
Chinese refineries are set up for oil with low to medium sulphur content further limiting the amount of oil she can process from Russia.
finally, there are ways the West can completely kill Russian oil and gas production but this will be interpreted as an act of war.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504488582060281860

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## INDIAPOSITIVE

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504293795017682948

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Ali_Baba

Will Turkey let these ships in? Technically - the home port for these ships is not in the black sea ?!









Russian warships pass through Japan strait, possibly on way to Ukraine


Russia could be sending reinforcements to Ukraine, Japan's defense ministry said after spotting four amphibious warships in the Tsugaru Strait (pictured). Russia has lost thousands of vehicles.




www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## jhungary

nang2 said:


> It is a relationship, not a guarantee since supply is very easy to accomplish. It is just a few keystrokes. No other goods can be made this easy, not even a twitter post.


That's NOT answering my question.

My question is, does that mean '*NOTHING*" as you claimed?


----------



## Ali_Baba

Ukraine war: Russia 'has lost up to a fifth of its pre-invasion force'


Russia has lost up to a fifth of the 150,000-strong force it amassed before invading Ukraine, the Pentagon believes, with at least 7,000 soldiers killed and up to 21,000 either wounded or captured.




www.dailymail.co.uk





Over 7,000 dead Russian soldiers so far!


----------



## Apollon

nang2 said:


> Ukraine isn't much stronger, either. Negotiation usually exists because nobody can achieve a decisive victory. So, watch the progress of the negotiation, you would know what happened on the battle fields.



Putin already loses all credibility. I think if Ukraine managed to get a big victory, putin is history


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504490162281226246

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

Ali_Baba said:


> Ukraine war: Russia 'has lost up to a fifth of its pre-invasion force'
> 
> 
> Russia has lost up to a fifth of the 150,000-strong force it amassed before invading Ukraine, the Pentagon believes, with at least 7,000 soldiers killed and up to 21,000 either wounded or captured.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over 7,000 dead Russian soldiers so far!



All planed by strategic genius Putin

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## Ali_Baba

Putin's soldiers want to 'shoot themselves in the leg and go home'


Intercepted audio reveals a Russian soldier telling his mother that his unit 'want to find some 7.62 bullets, the Ukrainian ones, to shoots each other's legs', adding that others 'already did this'.




www.dailymail.co.uk





Russian soldiers Morale drop off a cliff ...

*"Putin's soldiers are 'looking for Ukrainian ammunition so they can shoot themselves in the leg and get sent home, intercepted Russian phone call reveals"*


----------



## PanzerKiel

Maarkhoor said:


> @RescueRanger
> 
> Russian attack on Ukraine a total military planing disaster. They thought they will capture few cities and then go straight to capital


Dear, no one amongst us here is privy to the real Russian plans. If we laymen here can think like this, we can be sure that the Russian General Staff would have wargamed all this throughly...before launching.



RescueRanger said:


> I too want to hear what @PanzerKiel has to say, sir your input would be valuable to this thread.


I am deliberately refraining, for some obvious yet hidden reasons.

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## Wood

INDIAPOSITIVE said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504293795017682948


Thanks to the Indian judge who stood with the moral compass of majority of people in India


----------



## Amliunion

Oleg Akhmedov, Colonel of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine was killed near Kiev. Earlier, he was convicted in absentia in Moscow on charges under the article “a terrorist attack committed by a group of persons by prior conspiracy.”

In 2019, the FSB of Russia detained 2 suspects in Crimea on charges of spying for the Main Intelligence Directorate of Ukraine - a citizen of Ukraine and a Russian soldier, who, according to the investigation, in 2017-2018 handed over to the Ukrainian military intelligence a state secret entrusted to her in service. The security officers while investigating another case, found out from one of the detainees that their actions were carried out on the instruction of Colonel Oleg Akhmedov - he equipped caches with explosives and ammo in Crimea. Akhmedov was the recruiter and curator of the detained Russians and Ukrainians. They planned sabotage and terrorist attacks on social and military infrastructure.

Source: ASB Military News Telegram


----------



## nang2

Apollon said:


> Putin already loses all credibility. I think if Ukraine managed to get a big victory, putin is history


That would be ideal. Just don't make everyone wait for too long. Civilians are suffering immensely every minute.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504481352980205570
Russian convoy completely annihilated

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> That's NOT answering my question.
> 
> My question is, does that mean '*NOTHING*" as you claimed?


That is colloquial. Means nothing concrete. I am not writing a dissertation in this forum.


----------



## Dustom999

There was a country called Ukraine!

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504481352980205570
> Russian convoy completely annihilated


This is not believable. Did they not disperse and hide in forest for some sort of encirclement? 

Just because the convoy is not lined up like it used to, we cannot say that it was annihilated


----------



## Apollon

nang2 said:


> That would be ideal. Just don't make everyone wait for too long. Civilians are suffering immensely every minute.



I know. But treaties with putin are not worth the paper written on. 

The EU will not drop any sanctions on russia as long the putin regime is in charge.


----------



## nang2

Dustom999 said:


> There was a country called Ukraine!


Don't write its eulogy just yet. I think Ukraine will still be there and be an ever more pain in the butt for Russia.



Apollon said:


> I know. But treaties with putin are not worth the paper written on.
> 
> The EU will not drop any sanctions on russia as long the putin regime is in charge.


Putin isn't going to live forever. So, keep the hope up and the priority straight.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504492750892417035


----------



## F-22Raptor

Ali_Baba said:


> Putin's soldiers want to 'shoot themselves in the leg and go home'
> 
> 
> Intercepted audio reveals a Russian soldier telling his mother that his unit 'want to find some 7.62 bullets, the Ukrainian ones, to shoots each other's legs', adding that others 'already did this'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian soldiers Morale drop off a cliff ...
> 
> *"Putin's soldiers are 'looking for Ukrainian ammunition so they can shoot themselves in the leg and get sent home, intercepted Russian phone call reveals"*



Best advice is to surrender to Ukrainian forces. I really feel for the innocent Russian families.

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## jamal18

Apollon said:


> I know. But treaties with putin are not worth the paper written on.
> 
> The EU will not drop any sanctions on russia as long the putin regime is in charge.


And when Nato said that it will not move 'one inch' eastward after the fall of the Berlin wall?

It's Nato that's untrustworthy.


----------



## Maarkhoor

PanzerKiel said:


> Dear, no one amongst us here is privy to the real Russian plans. If we laymen here can think like this, we can be sure that the Russian General Staff would have wargamed all this throughly...before launching.


True no one knows real plans but we can see their execution and result till now it seems they can do lot better but might be I am not wrong in my assessment that they botched whatever their plans was.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504493417803530252


----------



## nang2

jamal18 said:


> And when Nato said that it will not move 'one inch' eastward after the fall of the Berlin wall?
> 
> It's Nato that's untrustworthy.


I strongly recommend to use all capital letters to spell NATO. Too many times I have mistaken Nato with natto.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504492706151780358
Another Russian column destroyed

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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> That is colloquial. Means nothing concrete. I am not writing a dissertation in this forum.


Well, I can say this.

I will be a rich man if I don't care about "Demand" and just oversupplying, and that is true regardless if I am talking about Fiat Currency, or car, or mobile phone or even Tampon....

because true, you can technically increase the supply to go over the demand limit, but doing so you will deflate your price. Just because you can print money indefinitely, that does not mean your value increase as you print your money, otherwise Japanese Yen will not worth 0.0084 US Dollars. And 1 Korean Won will not worth 0.00083 US Dollars. Inflation is a thing you know?

So I am going to ask you one more time

does that mean "Nothing" when there is a relationship between "Supply and Demand" ?


----------



## Apollon

jamal18 said:


> And when Nato said that it will not move 'one inch' eastward after the fall of the Berlin wall?
> 
> It's Nato that's untrustworthy.



1. NATO never said that 

2. Nations decide themself what alliance they belong to 

3. Much more countries want NATO security now. Ukraine is prove for evryone that only NATO membership gives security

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504495883911581697

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> Well, I can say this.
> 
> I will be a rich man if I don't care about "Demand" and just oversupplying, and that is true regardless if I am talking about Fiat Currency, or car, or mobile phone or even Tampon....
> 
> because true, you can technically increase the supply to go over the demand limit, but doing so you will deflate your price. Just because you can print money indefinitely, that does not mean your value increase as you print your money, otherwise Japanese Yen will not worth 0.0084 US Dollars. And 1 Korean Won will not worth 0.00083 US Dollars. Inflation is a thing you know?
> 
> So I am going to ask you one more time
> 
> does that mean "Nothing" when there is a relationship between "Supply and Demand" ?


Means nothing concrete. Just a promise that is called "full faith and credit" of the government.


----------



## jamal18

Apollon said:


> 1. NATO never said that


Wrong. Categorically wrong.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504443802559426564

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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> Means nothing concrete. Just a promise that is called "full faith and credit" of the government.


Demand is not something that can alter by the government tho, so this is not straightly "Full faith and credit" 

It's the same if I am a supplier, there are NO WAY for me to manipulate "Demand", because if I can, I would already been a quadrillionaire.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504425859826044929
This is a conservative estimate

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## Apollon

jamal18 said:


> Wrong. Categorically wrong.



Show the contract where NATO said we would not accept new members who seek protection from russian agression.

Show the document please.

That said, glad you accept my other two points that russias neighbors would be crazy not to join NATO


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504443802559426564


An operational loss may even dethrone him if the public believe that they lost. Most tyrants rule by asserting that they are infallible strong men. Especially in Russia, militarily losses have been followed by regime change.

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> Demand is not something that can alter by the government tho, so this is not straightly "Full faith and credit"
> 
> It's the same if I am a supplier, there are NO WAY for me to manipulate "Demand", because if I can, I would already been a quadrillionaire.


That promise is a faith. The government is asking you to have a faith in it. It will break it from time to time but you need to have a faith in it. That is why it is nothing concrete, certainly not a guarantee. Like Nixon said, "The dollar is our currency but it is your problem."


----------



## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504425859826044929
> This is a conservative estimate



These are insane losses over 3 weeks. At this rate, Russia will lose more than a third of its forces by mid April. Combat ineffectiveness is approaching.


----------



## Apollon

F-22Raptor said:


> These are insane losses over 3 weeks. At this rate, Russia will lose more than a third of its forces by mid April. Combat ineffectiveness is approaching.


I like what german chancellor Scholz said about german weapons killing russian soldiers: thats putins fault. No russian soldiers in Ukraine-> no dead soldiers

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## oberschlesier

jamal18 said:


> Wrong. Categorically wrong.


Nonesense. NATO said this unofficially to the SOVIET Union, that it will not expand to the east Germany, in the time it still existed. After this many this hapenned. Warsaw Pact disbanned, Sovier Union disbanned by the Decision of Russia, Ukraine and Belorussia. Why Russia thinks is the Soviet Union ? I think, Mr. P has somekind of a Problem here.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504498795639447553

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## jhungary

jamal18 said:


> Wrong. Categorically wrong.



At least in Mikhail Gorbachev mind, NATO never said that.

According to an interview Gorbachev did with Russia Beyond the Headline. Gorbachev said NATO had never mentioned anything about moving East, at least to his recollection.



https://www.rbth.com/international/2014/10/16/mikhail_gorbachev_i_am_against_all_walls_40673.html



*RBTH: One of the key issues that has arisen in connection with the events in Ukraine is NATO expansion into the East. Do you get the feeling that your Western partners lied to you when they were developing their future plans in Eastern Europe? Why didn’t you insist that the promises made to you – particularly U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s promise that NATO would not expand into the East – be legally encoded? I will quote Baker: “NATO will not move one inch further east.”

M.G.: The topic of “NATO expansion” was not discussed at all*, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a singe Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn’t bring it up, either. Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces from the alliance would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement, mentioned in your question, was made in that context. Kohl and [German Vice Chancellor Hans-Dietrich] Genscher talked about it.



https://www.rbth.com/international/2014/10/16/mikhail_gorbachev_i_am_against_all_walls_40673.html



Now, I don't know what has been said and what has not been said, as there are no formal agreement between NATO and Soviet Union, I just don't know, but Gorbachev was there, and I inclined to take his word for it.

And just so you know Russia Beyond the Headline is not a Pro-West Russian Publication. RBTH (or known as Russian Beyond now) is owned by the same company that own RT, which is considered the State Publication as much as RT does. 









Russia Beyond - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504079186625024003
Marco Rubio may be reading Kamil's twitter threads


----------



## American College Student

The Overall effect of the war should boost rearmament across the west. Short term this will strengthen US power through NATO. Long-term; european rearmament would cause the west to become more polycentric as european nations should gradually discover their own interest independent from the US. A world with Strong regional Powers with a Strong US and a Strong China with the regional powers serving as mediators between the two would actually be more stable than the current Unipolar to Bipolar transition that is going on at present.

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## jamal18

jhungary said:


> At least in Mikhail Gorbachev mind, NATO never said that.
> 
> According to an interview Gorbachev did with Russia Beyond the Headline. Gorbachev said NATO had never mentioned anything about moving East, at least to his recollection.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.rbth.com/international/2014/10/16/mikhail_gorbachev_i_am_against_all_walls_40673.html
> 
> 
> 
> *RBTH: One of the key issues that has arisen in connection with the events in Ukraine is NATO expansion into the East. Do you get the feeling that your Western partners lied to you when they were developing their future plans in Eastern Europe? Why didn’t you insist that the promises made to you – particularly U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s promise that NATO would not expand into the East – be legally encoded? I will quote Baker: “NATO will not move one inch further east.”
> 
> M.G.: The topic of “NATO expansion” was not discussed at all*, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a singe Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn’t bring it up, either. Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces from the alliance would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement, mentioned in your question, was made in that context. Kohl and [German Vice Chancellor Hans-Dietrich] Genscher talked about it.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.rbth.com/international/2014/10/16/mikhail_gorbachev_i_am_against_all_walls_40673.html
> 
> 
> 
> Now, I don't know what has been said and what has not been said, as there are no formal agreement between NATO and Soviet Union, I just don't know, but Gorbachev was there, and I inclined to take his word for it.
> 
> And just so you know Russia Beyond the Headline is not a Pro-West Russian Publication. RBTH (or known as Russian Beyond now) is owned by the same company that own RT, which is considered the State Publication as much as RT does.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Beyond - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


I saw the film of the US secretary of state at the time (Baker?) , using those words. The Russians have always felt that they have been betrayed. There's endless academics saying the same thing.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504500406621282304
The Ukrainians realize they could not win this war without US support.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504500582249373702


----------



## Wood

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504498795639447553


Epic trolling. Tacticool is a nice word


----------



## ProudPak

jhungary said:


> I honestly don't think so.
> 
> A replacement for Dollar denominated system would mean whatever currency that is going to replace the USD would have to have MORE circulation than USD, and that is before US call in EU for help, then you are not looking at 61% reserve, but closer to 90% world reserve. Can a single currency do that without bankrupting their own economy?
> 
> Look at it this way, RMB is currently at 1.2% world reserve basket, they will need to expand at least 60 times to overrun USD (which is at 61.2%) that expanding may have been possible in the next 100 years if RMB have a complete currency reform (nobody are going to willing to trade a currency that is controlled by the government) I do not see China can do that without seriously deflate their own currency.
> 
> Either that or a third world war happened and nobody but China survive. Which is how US get to dominate world currency back after WW2.


OK u are entitled to your opinion. But all great journeys begin with the 1st step. They foundations are laid and the journey started


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504497780135534594

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

American College Student said:


> The Overall effect of the war should boost rearmament across the west. Short term this will strengthen US power through NATO. Long-term; european rearmament would cause the west to become more polycentric as european nations should gradually discover their own interest independent from the US. A world with Strong regional Powers with a Strong US and a Strong China with the regional powers serving as mediators between the two would actually be more stable than the current Unipolar to Bipolar transition that is going on at present.



Thats not what Putin wanted. Putin wanted Europe as Worldpower with USA and China. Tripolar World. This Eurasian Empire in Putins mind would of course be ruled by Russia. 

What he did not understand is...that nobody in Europe wants that



jamal18 said:


> I saw the film of the US secretary of state at the time (Baker?) , using those words. The Russians have always felt that they have been betrayed. There's endless academics saying the same thing.



There is no contract. Nothing.


----------



## jhungary

jamal18 said:


> I saw the film of the US secretary of state at the time (Baker?) , using those words. The Russians have always felt that they have been betrayed. There's endless academics saying the same thing.


Well, as Gorbachev himself explained, the word quoted from Baker was out of context, he (Gorbachev) said what Baker said is to the extend there will not be NATO troop moving east (to East Germany) as long as Soviet Union Troop is there, only Interior Police are allowed to move East to secure those position held by Soviet Union.

As I said, I am not there, and you probably were not there, and lacking of official agreement, there are no way to know what has been said and in what context those thing has been said. And Gorbachev was there, and this is how he interpreted it. 

So Believe it or not is up to you.


----------



## jamal18

jhungary said:


> Well, as Gorbachev himself explained, the word quoted from Baker was out of context, he (Gorbachev) said what Baker said is to the extend there will not be NATO troop moving east (to East Germany) as long as Soviet Union Troop is there, only Interior Police are allowed to move East to secure those position held by Soviet Union.
> 
> As I said, I am not there, and you probably were not there, and lacking of official agreement, there are no way to know what has been said and in what context those thing has been said. And Gorbachev was there, and this is how he interpreted it.
> 
> So Believe it or not is up to you.


Well the Russian leadership, and a whole bunch of academics believe different. We'll leave it at that.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504503053185081348

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ich

This thread is going boring. Always the same propaganda shit repeating every second/third page of this thread although it is already proofed as meaningless propaganda some pages before. Its so...so....uuahh, cant stand.

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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> That promise is a faith. The government is asking you to have a faith in it. It will break it from time to time but you need to have a faith in it. That is why it is nothing concrete, certainly not a guarantee. Like Nixon said, "The dollar is our currency but it is your problem."



How is it "faith" when it was dictated by Supply *AND* Demand. If it is one and not the other, then maybe, but as a first year economic student will tell you, you don't get to be in charge of both. 

Which mean there are no "Faith" in it, and that is why I said I am better off not knowing your "Money Jargon"


----------



## oberschlesier

jamal18 said:


> I saw the film of the US secretary of state at the time (Baker?) , using those words. The Russians have always felt that they have been betrayed. There's endless academics saying the same thing.


Russia and Soviet Union are two different things! If they feel betrayed, why did they signed the *Belovezh Accords??








Belovezh Accords - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




*


----------



## nang2

jhungary said:


> How is it "faith" when it was dictated by Supply *AND* Demand. If it is one and not the other, then maybe, but as a first year economic student will tell you, you don't get to be in charge of both.
> 
> Which mean there are no "Faith" in it, and that is why I said I am better off not knowing your "Money Jargon"


It is a faith you give to the one who controls the supply.


----------



## jhungary

jamal18 said:


> Well the Russian leadership, and a whole bunch of academics believe different. We'll leave it at that.



Again, all those people were not present when Baker speak to Gorbachev. And I am pretty sure Gorbachev was there.

So, if you have to weight who's word was most believable. I will have to say I will take Gorbachev's anyday.

But yeah, we should leave it at that.



nang2 said:


> It is a faith you give to the one who controls the supply.


Which part of "AND" you don't understand??

The one controlling the supply cannot do jack shit on it because you NEEDED BOTH to be able to make a decision on it.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504501579973423105
A message from Arnold Schwarzenegger

Reactions: Like Like:
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## lcloo

Ali_Baba said:


> Will Turkey let these ships in? Technically - the home port for these ships is not in the black sea ?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian warships pass through Japan strait, possibly on way to Ukraine
> 
> 
> Russia could be sending reinforcements to Ukraine, Japan's defense ministry said after spotting four amphibious warships in the Tsugaru Strait (pictured). Russia has lost thousands of vehicles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk


This could be fake news. Russia has trans-Siberian railways that can transport these trucks (and in far more larger number) to border with Ukraine within a week, by ship the journey would take a month.


----------



## newb3e

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504425859826044929
> This is a conservative estimate


and Iraq had WMD!


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504506985328386061

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504503053185081348



Russia continues to lose high ranking officers at an incredible rate yet nobody seems to worry. @F-22Raptor 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1449098475950559243


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504507765208887307

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## gambit

Foinikas said:


> Why are you so obsessed with Mearsheimer? You're stuck talking about him because someone mentioned him like 10-20 pages earlier.


Me obsessed with Mearsheimer? That is a good laugh. 

It is *YOU* and many others who are obsessed with Mearsheimer regarding his thesis of great power geopolitics.

In my post...









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Is there an actual counter attack or is this fluff? https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-mounts-counteroffensive-to-drive-russians-back-from-kyiv-key-cities-11647428858 Recent article ~ 45 minutes ago



defence.pk





I did exactly what you and others wanted, which was to put the US and Russia under what Mearsheimer wanted: amoral great powers responding to a perceived national security threat. I said 'amoral', not 'immoral', look up the difference.

The core of your defense of Russia is that it is the US/NATO who are at fault for supposedly offering NATO membership to Ukraine, of which, Poutine *PERCEIVED* that *POTENTIAL* membership to be a national security threat. I have seen versions of how Poutine was 'cornered' or was not offered an 'exit' and so on. So I did *EXACTLY* what you guys wanted. I put the US squarely under Mearsheimer's argument.

*Situation 1:*
The US is a great power and is the leader of the democracy bloc.​Cuba is a neighbor and is a member of the communist bloc, not of the Warsaw Pact in particular, but of the communist bloc in general.​Cuba hosts nuclear weapons from the Soviet Union, the leader of the communist bloc.​The US responded with a blockade of Cuba.​The US negotiated with the Soviet Union for a successful settlement.​The Soviet Union withdraw the nuclear weapons.​The US ended the blockade.​
*Situation 2:*
Russia was once a Soviet state, leader of the Soviet Union, and leader of the communist bloc.​Russia today is a great power and is no member or leader of any bloc.​Ukraine was once a Soviet state, not an allied country but a member of the Soviet Union who had full jurisdiction over Ukraine.​Ukraine today is an independent country next to Russia and is no member of any bloc.​Ukraine expressed an interest in being a member of the democratic bloc and specifically NATO but no actual admittance occurred.​Russia responded by invading Ukraine.​
Do you see any moral attribution to either great powers above? Do you deny the events listed? The issue here is responses to a *PERCEIVED* national security threat, *WHEN* did each great power responded, and *HOW* did each great power responded. In other words, I entered *YOUR* playhouse, opened up your rules, and you ran away. 

The reason you, and anyone else who subscribed to Mearsheimer's thesis, ran away from the situations I listed above is because you guys know there is a point where the response breached a reasonable line, and that there is no defense of what Poutine did. Everyone love to bring up Cuba to show how the US reacted which would somehow absolved Russia of the crime of invading Ukraine. So I obliged all of you. And y'all scattered.

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## Viet

jamahir said:


> USA and Turkey have no business in being "guarantors" of Ukraine in this conflict. Russia is right in rejecting it. This conflict is for securing Russia's security and expelling Nazis. I don't see why Zelensky will have objection specially to the latter. And if Zelensky will not accept to those demands then the sufferings of the Ukranians is on him. He may not mind being the puppet of NATO but what about he people his forces are holding hostage, not allowing to leave the cities and placing artillery and rocketry in civilian areas ?


Too bad that you cheer him. Putin is a Psychopath, people say Russia is an asian country without Ukraine, like China or Turkey. He is angry he wants to be part of Europe.


----------



## dBSPL

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504506985328386061


Not only Uzbekistan, but also many Asian countries are in favor of Ukraine's territorial integrity (principle of immutability of borders). For example, Azerbaijan signed a security agreement with Russia in February. But they are also in favor of the territorial integrity of Ukraine.

The right of peoples to self-determination is another. Russia is trying to invade whole country directly, without any legal basis, and it has nothing can be defend in terms of international law.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Msta-S self propelled howitzers


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504422613606715400

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## Foinikas

gambit said:


> Me obsessed with Mearsheimer? That is a good laugh.
> 
> It is *YOU* and many others who are obsessed with Mearsheimer regarding his thesis of great power geopolitics.
> 
> In my post...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> Is there an actual counter attack or is this fluff? https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-mounts-counteroffensive-to-drive-russians-back-from-kyiv-key-cities-11647428858 Recent article ~ 45 minutes ago
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did exactly what you and others wanted, which was to put the US and Russia under what Mearsheimer wanted: amoral great powers responding to a perceived national security threat. I said 'amoral', not 'immoral', look up the difference.
> 
> The core of your defense of Russia is that it is the US/NATO who are at fault for supposedly offering NATO membership to Ukraine, of which, Poutine *PERCEIVED* that *POTENTIAL* membership to be a national security threat. I have seen versions of how Poutine was 'cornered' or was not offered an 'exit' and so on. So I did *EXACTLY* what you guys wanted. I put the US squarely under Mearsheimer's argument.
> 
> *Situation 1:*
> The US is a great power and is the leader of the democracy bloc.​Cuba is a neighbor and is a member of the communist bloc, not of the Warsaw Pact in particular, but of the communist bloc in general.​Cuba hosts nuclear weapons from the Soviet Union, the leader of the communist bloc.​The US responded with a blockade of Cuba.​The US negotiated with the Soviet Union for a successful settlement.​The Soviet Union withdraw the nuclear weapons.​The US ended the blockade.​
> *Situation 2:*
> Russia was once a Soviet state, leader of the Soviet Union, and leader of the communist bloc.​Russia today is a great power and is no member or leader of any bloc.​Ukraine was once a Soviet state, not an allied country but a member of the Soviet Union who had full jurisdiction over Ukraine.​Ukraine today is an independent country next to Russia and is no member of any bloc.​Ukraine expressed an interest in being a member of the democratic bloc and specifically NATO but no actual admittance occurred.​Russia responded by invading Ukraine.​
> Do you see any moral attribution to either great powers above? Do you deny the events listed? The issue here is responses to a *PERCEIVED* national security threat, *WHEN* did each great power responded, and *HOW* did each great power responded. In other words, I entered *YOUR* playhouse, opened up your rules, and you ran away.
> 
> The reason you, and anyone else who subscribed to Mearsheimer's thesis, ran away from the situations I listed above is because you guys know there is a point where the response breached a reasonable line, and that there is no defense of what Poutine did. Everyone love to bring up Cuba to show how the US reacted which would somehow absolved Russia of the crime of invading Ukraine. So I obliged all of you. And y'all scattered.


Habibi when did I run away? You guys keep talking about evil Russia invading a free and sovereign nation and caling Putin an evil dictator. However,when USA and its allies invading countries far away or had regime changes,you say it was different. 

What I've been telling you is that the U.S. and Britain as well as some countries of Western Europe,are the last ones to point the finger and talk about "war crimes" and invasions. And still you go on about Mersheimer. I'm not the one who mentioned him and keep talking about him. Others warned about this foreign policy as well. 

Get over with it. Russia is not the USSR anymore. You remind me of those hillbillies who're sitting on an armschair watching TV with a beer in hand going like "I ain't gonna let these commies come take mah freedom! We should go get them russkies first!"

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## Tamerlane

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504093879661912071

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3 | Haha Haha:
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## dBSPL

Ali_Baba said:


> Will Turkey let these ships in? Technically - the home port for these ships is not in the black sea ?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian warships pass through Japan strait, possibly on way to Ukraine
> 
> 
> Russia could be sending reinforcements to Ukraine, Japan's defense ministry said after spotting four amphibious warships in the Tsugaru Strait (pictured). Russia has lost thousands of vehicles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk


Turkey is the party responsible for the implementation of the strait regime, we did not create this regime ourselves. The guarantors of this contract are about 10 signatory countries, including Japan and Russia. So if Russia tries to break this regime, it will put itself in trouble. Montreux is important for Russia's security, if it rejects this convention as a guarantor country, the consequences will be severe for Russia.

Yesterday, Lavrov openly praised Turkey's stance and talked about the importance of the Montreux convention for Russia. In short, I don't think they will do anything to harm this agreement.

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## monitor

Czech Republic can no longer accept refugees from Ukraine - Czech Prime Minister

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## dBSPL

monitor said:


> Czech Republic can no longer accept refugees from Ukraine - Czech Prime Minister


They started to leave Poland alone in just 1 month. Poland could be screwed up. If Russia creates the regime it wants in Ukraine, at least 4-5 million Ukrainians will migrate to Poland permanently.

Currently, the number of refugees left Ukraine around 4 million.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504510652769001486


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Zala drone footage


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504495431379820545


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## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504507765208887307



What mega buainess deals? Deals are made between two partners. Russia is so reduced that China gets it basicly for free.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Mosin Nagant rifles. Accurate. Powerful. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504498298324930562


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## gambit

Wood said:


> Could it be that the Russians are holding back VKS resources in the expectation of possible clash with NATO as this situation develops? Just wondering


If so, it turned out to be a failed gamble.



https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA260946.pdf



A Soviet pilot who had flown in Egypt during the 1970 War of Attrition suggested that the nonappearance of the Iraqi air force in combat was the result of a *conscious husbanding strategy*, and not a reflection of effective allied suppression or any fear of Iraqi fighter pilots to fly.​
So is it possible that Russia was 'husbanding' VKS resources just in case NATO airpower entered the equation?

The problem with holding back your airpower in anticipating another airpower is that your ground forces ended up with two parallel focus: enemy ground and enemy air. US doctrine in Desert Storm proved the error of that tactic. We decided that US ground forces will not face another airpower and the last time that happened was the Korean War. Had the VKS achieved air superiority in 2 or maybe 3 days, that would have been the time for NATO to gather its air assets, so by the time NATO was able to enter Ukrainian airspace, it would have been VKS vs NATO in the air, not VKS vs NATO-Ukraine in the air.

Russian Army vs Ukrainian Air Force + Army
Russian Air Force vs NATO + Ukraine

Or...

Russian Army vs Ukrainian Army
Russian Air Force vs NATO

If NATO was truly intended to enter Ukraine, there would have been signs of that long before the war, as in there would have been buildup all around Ukraine's borders. Instead, we saw only one, that of Russia's. So if the VKS was husbanding its forces, it must have been based on some intelligence analyses and given to Poutine, then Poutine approved the plan, but NATO never showed and the Russian Army ended up with a disaster. Whoever gave Poutine that analysis is probably executed by now. So now we are forced to return to Desert Storm where if you know you have numerical superiority, take the advantage early and fast.

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Habibi when did I run away? You guys keep talking about evil Russia invading a free and sovereign nation and caling Putin an evil dictator. However,when USA and its allies invading countries far away or had regime changes,you say it was different.
> 
> What I've been telling you is that the U.S. and Britain as well as some countries of Western Europe,are the last ones to point the finger and talk about "war crimes" and invasions. And still you go on about Mersheimer. I'm not the one who mentioned him and keep talking about him. Others warned about this foreign policy as well.
> 
> Get over with it. Russia is not the USSR anymore. You remind me of those hillbillies who're sitting on an armschair watching TV with a beer in hand going like "I ain't gonna let these commies come take mah freedom! We should go get them russkies first!"



Whataboutism at its best. If someone murders your family, do you want police say: get over it, ted bundy murdered too...

Whataboutism is a typical kremlin tactic.

Russia invaded Ukraine. Murders women and children and destroys so much. It does so for imperialistic goals.

Its not about pointing fingers, its about enabeling Ukraine to liquidate as much russian soldiers as possible, to destroy as muxh russian equipment as possible, to destroy russian economy and wipe any russian presence out of Europe, isolate them like North Korea.

I like the way its going and i like how desperate the kremlin gets. I think we should give Kaliningrad some freedom, now that Russia is exposed so weak.


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## mmr

dBSPL said:


> They started to leave Poland alone in just 1 month. Poland could be screwed up. If Russia creates the regime it wants in Ukraine, at least 4-5 million Ukrainians will migrate to Poland permanently.
> 
> Currently, the number of refugees left Ukraine around 4 million.


Canada has announced it will take unlimited number of Ukrainian refugees. 

Hopefully usa will do same.


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## Apollon

mmr said:


> Canada has announced it will take unlimited number of Ukrainian refugees.
> 
> Hopefully usa will do same.



Germany does too

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## nang2

mmr said:


> Canada has announced it will take unlimited number of Ukrainian refugees.
> 
> Hopefully usa will do same.


We like folks who can handle cold. Ukrainians fit well.

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## mmr

Apollon said:


> Germany does too


Canada is English speaking country so easy to get job here compare to Germany.

2 million Canadians are Ukrainian origin. They will have way more support here then going to Germany in my opinion. But any help is good.

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## MajesticPug

F-22Raptor said:


> Brutal way to die. The Russian soldiers who actually want to live should surrender to Ukrainian forces now, before thousands more anti armor missiles, and Switchblades enter combat.



No, Russia should step up its attacks on supplies coming into Ukraine. In fact, now is the time to bomb all Ukraine's power and telecommunication towers. This will ensure the war ends sooner. Only the Americans want the war continue and more people killed. Pathetic American regime. Biden and his people are war criminal. F the 'for democracy' lies. The real causes of this war is of course benefitting the military-industrial complex and the general capitalists that control the US government.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## gambit

Foinikas said:


> Habibi when did I run away?


Of course you and others ran away.

*Situation 1:*
The US is a great power and is the leader of the democracy bloc.​Cuba is a neighbor and is a member of the communist bloc, not of the Warsaw Pact in particular, but of the communist bloc in general.​Cuba hosts nuclear weapons from the Soviet Union, the leader of the communist bloc.​The US responded with a blockade of Cuba.​The US negotiated with the Soviet Union for a successful settlement.​The Soviet Union withdraw the nuclear weapons.​The US ended the blockade.​
*Situation 2:*
Russia was once a Soviet state, leader of the Soviet Union, and leader of the communist bloc.​Russia today is a great power and is no member or leader of any bloc.​Ukraine was once a Soviet state, not an allied country but a member of the Soviet Union who had full jurisdiction over Ukraine.​Ukraine today is an independent country next to Russia and is no member of any bloc.​Ukraine expressed an interest in being a member of the democratic bloc and specifically NATO but no actual admittance occurred.​Russia responded by invading Ukraine.​
Answer the question...Which level should we allow great powers to respond? In each, there is a *PERCEIVED* national security threat and *PERCEPTION* is what all of you demanded as legitimate justification for invasion of Ukraine. All of you adopted Mearsheimer's thesis of great power geopolitics, so I gave you two real world examples that matched his theory: perception and response. The difference is the response from each great power. You do not like the difference, so you ran. Again, I entered your playhouse, opened up your rules, and you guys ran.




Foinikas said:


> Get over with it. Russia is not the USSR anymore.


Maybe you are correct here. The Soviets would have ran over Ukraine in one week.



Foinikas said:


> You remind me of those hillbillies who're sitting on an armschair watching TV with a beer in hand going like "I ain't gonna let these commies come take mah freedom! We should go get them russkies first!"


Am USAF veteran, F-111 Cold War then F-16 Desert Storm. But I do enjoy beers.

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## dBSPL

Every country in the world accepts people who do not impose an additional burden on the social security system, have no integration problems and can join the workforce immediately.

As the war gets heavier, people with mentally destroyed lives, the disabled and the elderly, people with criminal records will start to dominate refugee flows. The problem will start after that point. Other countries may be selective, but for Poland the problem will be much more complex.

Can anyone estimate how many billions of dollars additional burden is brought by 1 million people living on social benefits (education, health, shelter, basic food, etc.)?

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## MajesticPug

Avicenna said:


> How about the reasons given for the invasion of Iraq in 2003?
> 
> That was a case study in building a case for a war with falsehood.
> 
> Countries will do what they will do.
> 
> Mearsheimer calls it like it is.
> 
> And he systematically laid out the reasons for THIS conflict from as far back as 2015.
> 
> And what did he prescribe as the solution to avert a war?
> 
> Ukraine as a neutral buffer. (i.e. NO NATO and a limited military)
> 
> Which is what is gonna happen anyways now.



Many people like Mearsheimer have a clear head and warned back 5-10 years ago. Yet the sad truth is American weapon makers are in control.

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## Ali_Baba

Ukraine war: UK deploying Sky Sabre ground based air defence system and 100 troops to Poland​








Ukraine war: UK deploying Sky Sabre ground based air defence system and 100 troops to Poland


The Sky Sabre missile system can target fighter jets or incoming smart bombs and will be kept in Poland with British troops to operate it.




news.sky.com













Britain deploying air defence missile system to Poland


Britain is deploying its Sky Sabre air defence missile system to Poland.




ukdefencejournal.org.uk













Sky Sabre Air Defence System, United Kingdom


Sky Sabre is an advanced beyond visual range air defense system developed for British Army’s ground-based air defence requirements.




www.army-technology.com





(range is a bit limited but seems impressive for the range it offers )

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## Apollon

MajesticPug said:


> No, Russia should step up its attacks on supplies coming into Ukraine. In fact, now is the time to bomb all Ukraine's power and telecommunication towers. This will ensure the war ends sooner. Only the Americans want the war continue and more people killed. Pathetic American regime. Biden and his people are war criminal. F the 'for democracy' lies. The real causes of this war is of course benefitting the military-industrial complex and the general capitalists that control the US government.



No, this war will continue till russian troops collapse

We Europeans will not allow the russian regime to spread its facism over Europe.

SLAVA UKRAINE

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## gambit

MajesticPug said:


> No, *Russia should step up its attacks on supplies coming into Ukraine. In fact, now is the time to bomb all Ukraine's power and telecommunication towers.* This will ensure the war ends sooner. Only the Americans want the war continue and more people killed. Pathetic American regime. Biden and his people are war criminal. F the 'for democracy' lies. The real causes of this war is of course benefitting the military-industrial complex and the general capitalists that control the US government.


This is a stupid argument. Who is preventing Russia from doing what you asked? For any weapons supply line that entered Ukraine, Russia is free under the Geneva Convention rules of war to attack that line. So what is preventing Russia from doing so? You cannot blame your incompetence on someone else.

By the way, am not saying 'you' personally but generically.

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## Zibago

F-22Raptor said:


> The Chinese are now throwing the Russians under the bus


Oh no not at all they want the whole invasion thing gone but they want to use Russia for their natural resources

They prefer a Russia that is not on friendly terms with west and more reliant on them


----------



## mmr

MajesticPug said:


> No, Russia should step up its attacks on supplies coming into Ukraine. In fact, now is the time to bomb all Ukraine's power and telecommunication towers. This will ensure the war ends sooner. Only the Americans want the war continue and more people killed. Pathetic American regime. Biden and his people are war criminal. F the 'for democracy' lies. The real causes of this war is of course benefitting the military-industrial complex and the general capitalists that control the US government.


Calm down lol.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504480861848162324

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## dBSPL

18-year-old girl fleeing the war in Ukraine was gang-raped in Germany








Ukrainian refugee 'is gang-raped by two men' on German hotel ship


Police launched an investigation into the alleged assault which took place on March 6 and arrested the two men, who remain in custody, Dusseldorf prosecutor's office confirmed Monday.




www.dailymail.co.uk

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## MajesticPug

gambit said:


> This is a stupid argument. Who is preventing Russia from doing what you asked? For any weapons supply line that entered Ukraine, Russia is free under the Geneva Convention rules of war to attack that line. So what is preventing Russia from doing so? You cannot blame your incompetence on someone else.
> 
> By the way, am not saying 'you' personally but generically.


Of course Russia could attack but somehow it's not doing so either of its lack of capacity to attack or its guidelines limited by its war objectives. There are indications of both.

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## dBSPL

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504480861848162324



Ukranian soldiers sent off on their eternal rest in Ukraine. People are on their knees expressing their gratitude in the cold. Wars are won by faith.


----------



## MajesticPug

Apollon said:


> No, this war will continue till russian troops collapse
> 
> We Europeans will not allow the russian regime to spread its facism over Europe.
> 
> SLAVA UKRAINE



Unlikely. Unless NATO enters the war, I don't see how Ukraine can come out a victor. Therefore for a quick peace resolution so Ukraine people can return to live and work, the Comedian should sign the peace treaty that ensures Ukraine's neutrality in the fight between Russia and NATO.

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## Primus

Apollon said:


> Ukrainians destroying another russian convoy. Interesting battle scenes


You are uploading old footage/news. Please stop this

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## Avicenna

gambit said:


> Me obsessed with Mearsheimer? That is a good laugh.
> 
> It is *YOU* and many others who are obsessed with Mearsheimer regarding his thesis of great power geopolitics.
> 
> In my post...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> Is there an actual counter attack or is this fluff? https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-mounts-counteroffensive-to-drive-russians-back-from-kyiv-key-cities-11647428858 Recent article ~ 45 minutes ago
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did exactly what you and others wanted, which was to put the US and Russia under what Mearsheimer wanted: amoral great powers responding to a perceived national security threat. I said 'amoral', not 'immoral', look up the difference.
> 
> The core of your defense of Russia is that it is the US/NATO who are at fault for supposedly offering NATO membership to Ukraine, of which, Poutine *PERCEIVED* that *POTENTIAL* membership to be a national security threat. I have seen versions of how Poutine was 'cornered' or was not offered an 'exit' and so on. So I did *EXACTLY* what you guys wanted. I put the US squarely under Mearsheimer's argument.
> 
> *Situation 1:*
> The US is a great power and is the leader of the democracy bloc.​Cuba is a neighbor and is a member of the communist bloc, not of the Warsaw Pact in particular, but of the communist bloc in general.​Cuba hosts nuclear weapons from the Soviet Union, the leader of the communist bloc.​The US responded with a blockade of Cuba.​The US negotiated with the Soviet Union for a successful settlement.​The Soviet Union withdraw the nuclear weapons.​The US ended the blockade.​
> *Situation 2:*
> Russia was once a Soviet state, leader of the Soviet Union, and leader of the communist bloc.​Russia today is a great power and is no member or leader of any bloc.​Ukraine was once a Soviet state, not an allied country but a member of the Soviet Union who had full jurisdiction over Ukraine.​Ukraine today is an independent country next to Russia and is no member of any bloc.​Ukraine expressed an interest in being a member of the democratic bloc and specifically NATO but no actual admittance occurred.​Russia responded by invading Ukraine.​
> Do you see any moral attribution to either great powers above? Do you deny the events listed? The issue here is responses to a *PERCEIVED* national security threat, *WHEN* did each great power responded, and *HOW* did each great power responded. In other words, I entered *YOUR* playhouse, opened up your rules, and you ran away.
> 
> The reason you, and anyone else who subscribed to Mearsheimer's thesis, ran away from the situations I listed above is because you guys know there is a point where the response breached a reasonable line, and that there is no defense of what Poutine did. Everyone love to bring up Cuba to show how the US reacted which would somehow absolved Russia of the crime of invading Ukraine. So I obliged all of you. And y'all scattered.



No one scattered.

Perhaps, we just realize its pointless to argue with someone whose mind is made up.

Regardless, none of our opinions here matter.

However, some of us are intellectually honest and agnostic to ideology.

Others cling to what makes them feel safe.

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## Apollon

MajesticPug said:


> Unlikely. Unless NATO enters the war, I don't see how Ukraine can come out a victor. Therefore for a quick peace resolution so Ukraine people can return to live and work, the Comedian should sign the peace treaty that ensures Ukraine's neutrality in the fight between Russia and NATO.



Ukraine is flooded by manpads and other weapons. All they need to do is to destroy as much russian troops and equipment as possible and they do an excellent job with this.

Europe will not accept Putins regime anyways. The sooner Putin bites the dust, the better.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504283852101070853
Moldova began to found encourage from Ukraine war.

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## Avicenna

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504283852101070853
> Moldova began to found encourage from Ukraine war.



Not a good sign that things are going well for Russia.


----------



## Oublious

I will make some trolls happy, first TB2 shotdown and congrats...  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504387422280458241


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## dBSPL

Avicenna said:


> Not a good sign that things are going well for Russia.


If Russia can carry out the Odessa operation (and if it can impose the new defacto status), it will physically merge with Transnistria. This means that Moldova's territorial integrity is destroyed forever. The course of the Ukrainian war is very critical for Moldova too.



Oublious said:


> I will make some trolls happy, first TB2 shotdown and congrats...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504387422280458241


This news has been shared 5-6 times, my friend. At least, the Russian forces do not put the crashed plane on the pickup truck and take pictures of it at different points, like the Haftar bandits.

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## Zibago




----------



## Oublious

dBSPL said:


> If Russia can carry out the Odessa operation (and if it can impose the new defacto status), it will physically merge with Transnistria. This means that Moldova's territorial integrity is destroyed forever. The course of the Ukrainian war is very critical for Moldova too.
> 
> 
> This news has been shared 5-6 times, my friend. At least, the Russian forces do not put the crashed plane on the pickup truck and take pictures of it at different points, like the Haftar bandits.




Oh...

I was late...



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504501579973423105
> A message from Arnold Schwarzenegger





ill bi baaakkk....

gooo get to the chopperrr ahahah


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Whataboutism at its best. If someone murders your family, do you want police say: get over it, ted bundy murdered too...
> 
> Whataboutism is a typical kremlin tactic.
> 
> Russia invaded Ukraine. Murders women and children and destroys so much. It does so for imperialistic goals.
> 
> Its not about pointing fingers, its about enabeling Ukraine to liquidate as much russian soldiers as possible, to destroy as muxh russian equipment as possible, to destroy russian economy and wipe any russian presence out of Europe, isolate them like North Korea.
> 
> I like the way its going and i like how desperate the kremlin gets. I think we should give Kaliningrad some freedom, now that Russia is exposed so weak.


Ah so when NATO invades and intervenes in conflicts around the world you guys are like "War is not black and white..."

But now it's "Russians are bad,Ukrainians are good,that's all you need to know". 

I asked you in a previous post,where were you when Ukrainians were slaughtering people in Donbass in 2015? Where were you when the war started? When mothers were telling Poroshenko to leave them alone and asking why the Ukrainian army is killing them. Where were you when Iraq was being bombed to pieces and children were dying here and there? When Bush and Obama were destabilizing entire regions to bring "freedom"? The amazing democratic countries of the world intervening when oil and geopolitics are suitable. Leaving dictators to rule countries for decades when they're friendly to them or they have nothing to gain from a war. Saddam was an ok guy for them until he invaded Kuwait. The Taliban were barbarians but nobody cared to bomb them to pieces until 2001. Somoza and Central American dictators. The Myanmari regimes. The old Taiwanese and South Korean regimes. Haitian dictators and African generals who ruled by killing thousands of people.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498403975800012809

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## LeGenD

dBSPL said:


> 18-year-old girl fleeing the war in Ukraine was gang-raped in Germany
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian refugee 'is gang-raped by two men' on German hotel ship
> 
> 
> Police launched an investigation into the alleged assault which took place on March 6 and arrested the two men, who remain in custody, Dusseldorf prosecutor's office confirmed Monday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk


This is not acceptable.

German authorities sleeping? They should separate men from women with the exception of families.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ukraine war is China US proxy war. China backed Russia vs US backed Ukraine. China has ambition to dominate The Old World.


----------



## Foinikas

gambit said:


> Am USAF veteran, F-111 Cold War then F-16 Desert Storm. But I do enjoy beers.


I'm not saying you're a hillbilly,I'm saying you remind me of those hillbillies who think Russia is still communist and live in the Cold War. Now,I miss they 80's too,but the problem is that a lot of Americans kept thinking that the Soviet Union never got dissolved and are still afraid of the "red menace". 



gambit said:


> Maybe you are correct here. The Soviets would have ran over Ukraine in one week.


Of course they would. NATO's fear of Russia is illogical. They haven't surrounded NATO with bases,NATO has surrounded half the world with bases.



gambit said:


> Answer the question...Which level should we allow great powers to respond? In each, there is a *PERCEIVED* national security threat and *PERCEPTION* is what all of you demanded as legitimate justification for invasion of Ukraine. All of you adopted Mearsheimer's thesis of great power geopolitics, so I gave you two real world examples that matched his theory: perception and response. The difference is the response from each great power. You do not like the difference, so you ran. Again, I entered your playhouse, opened up your rules, and you guys ran.


Please c/p that whole post for like 10-20 more times,just in case we don't get it. And please talk about Measrsheimer a bit more.


----------



## Wood

dBSPL said:


> If Russia can carry out the Odessa operation (and if it can impose the new defacto status), it will physically merge with Transnistria. This means that Moldova's territorial integrity is destroyed forever. *The course of the Ukrainian war is very critical for Moldova too.*


Is there any known survey about public opinion in Moldova, for or against Russian invasion? Wonder if they have a lot of Russians who are pro Putin 🤔


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504535444209426438


----------



## Wood

LeGenD said:


> This is not acceptable.
> 
> German authorities sleeping? They should separate men from women with the exception of families.


"*She was allegedly attacked by two Ukraine citizens, 37 and 26, from Iraq, Nigeria"*

This makes it even worse. I remember that German public opinion towards accepting refugees from Syria nosedived after the Cologne gang rape incident. A few people like this are responsible for immeasurable damage to the refugee community in Germany. Perhaps even so for all colored people in the country.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504536232625426433
Latest assessment from the Pentagon. Russian forces are frozen around the country

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504212266832568325

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504329499470712836
Jomini's assessment today seems to indicate that Russia is stalled in all fronts. He claims to be as objective as he could despite his personal bias towards west.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504332138459680768

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## waz

Biden called Putin a war criminal the same man who plugged the Iraq war;

*“I do not believe this is a rush to war,” Biden said a few days before the vote. “I believe it is a march to peace and security. I believe that failure to overwhelmingly support this resolution is likely to enhance the prospects that war will occur …”*

Then;

He was able to choose all 18 witnesses in the main Senate hearings on Iraq. And he mainly chose people who supported a pro-war position

The majority of the US public was against it. This gets laughable by the minute hypocritical BS everywhere.

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## oberschlesier

dBSPL said:


> They started to leave Poland alone in just 1 month. Poland could be screwed up. If Russia creates the regime it wants in Ukraine, at least 4-5 million Ukrainians will migrate to Poland permanently.
> 
> Currently, the number of refugees left Ukraine around 4 million.


Huge problem in short term. Huge economic benefit in the long run. Unemployment in PL is 2.9%.

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## gambit

Foinikas said:


> I'm not saying you're a hillbilly,I'm saying you remind me of those hillbillies who think Russia is still communist and live in the Cold War. Now,I miss they 80's too,but the problem is that a lot of Americans kept thinking that the Soviet Union never got dissolved and are still afraid of the "red menace".


Russia pretty much proved them correct, ain't it?



Foinikas said:


> Of course they would. NATO's fear of Russia is illogical. They haven't surrounded NATO with bases,NATO has surrounded half the world with bases.


NATO does not force anyone to join the club. The Cold War yrs convinced many countries to be suspicious of 'Ivan'. Maybe you should call the peoples of those countries as 'illogical'.



Foinikas said:


> Please c/p that whole post for like 10-20 more times,just in case we don't get it. And please talk about Measrsheimer a bit more.


No need. Just a couple times will do the job of proving to the silent readers out there the cowardice of those who would defend Poutine.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504534372195651592
Oryx says he has a large backlog of Russian losses to count, and we're quickly approaching 1,500 losses

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## Meengla

Foinikas said:


> Ah so when NATO invades and intervenes in conflicts around the world you guys are like "War is not black and white..."
> 
> But now it's "Russians are bad,Ukrainians are good,that's all you need to know".
> 
> I asked you in a previous post,where were you when Ukrainians were slaughtering people in Donbass in 2015? Where were you when the war started? When mothers were telling Poroshenko to leave them alone and asking why the Ukrainian army is killing them. Where were you when Iraq was being bombed to pieces and children were dying here and there? When Bush and Obama were destabilizing entire regions to bring "freedom"? The amazing democratic countries of the world intervening when oil and geopolitics are suitable. Leaving dictators to rule countries for decades when they're friendly to them or they have nothing to gain from a war. Saddam was an ok guy for them until he invaded Kuwait. The Taliban were barbarians but nobody cared to bomb them to pieces until 2001. Somoza and Central American dictators. The Myanmari regimes. The old Taiwanese and South Korean regimes. Haitian dictators and African generals who ruled by killing thousands of people.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498403975800012809



Your heart is in the right place and I see you are speaking for so many different countries and ethnicities and in a logical way in your posts. Can't say that about many here.

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## oberschlesier

gambit said:


> NATO does not force anyone to join the club. The Cold War yrs convinced many countries to be suspicious of 'Ivan'. Maybe you should call the peoples of those countries as 'illogical'.


Writing from one of those countries -> This is absolutely correct. Nobody was "forcing" anybody to join NATO, just the opposite.

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## MajesticPug

Apollon said:


> Ukraine is flooded by manpads and other weapons. All they need to do is to destroy as much russian troops and equipment as possible and they do an excellent job with this.
> 
> Europe will not accept Putins regime anyways. The sooner Putin bites the dust, the better.



As Ukrainian AA missiles wear out, radar gone, airports destroyed, Russians with real air superiority will bomb more military-hardware supply lines from the West. For your knowledge, stings can't bring down a mid or high altitude jets or nations wouldn't have to field AA missile systems. Russia does not want to attack Kiev, least get the Comedian killed or escaped to Germany or the US. Russia is rounding up the main Ukrainian forces (some 170,000 strong) in Eastern Ukraine. That will be a major decisive battle there.

The talk of Russia installing regimes in Europe is laughable.. You're the Comedian 2, yes?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504541517947543559


----------



## Oublious

Ali_Baba said:


> Will Turkey let these ships in? Technically - the home port for these ships is not in the black sea ?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian warships pass through Japan strait, possibly on way to Ukraine
> 
> 
> Russia could be sending reinforcements to Ukraine, Japan's defense ministry said after spotting four amphibious warships in the Tsugaru Strait (pictured). Russia has lost thousands of vehicles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk




No, like we don't let Americans they can not get in. Imagine ther was no Montreux, today black sea would be filled warships of NATO. So they can better respect the deal, this is a treaty keeps black sea safe, with out this treaty ther would be a big war.

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## gambit

Avicenna said:


> No one scattered.


Of course you guys did. I went out of my way to accommodate everyone's support for Russia's accusation to NATO. The least courteous thing to do is return the favor and show the public where you guys stand. 



Avicenna said:


> Perhaps, we just realize its pointless to argue with someone whose mind is made up.


That make no sense. Anyone who participated in this debate already made up their minds. Even neutrality is a position.



Avicenna said:


> Regardless, none of our opinions here matter.
> 
> However, some of us are intellectually honest and agnostic to ideology.
> 
> Others cling to what makes them feel safe.


The situations I presented about the US and Russia were devoid of any ideology. It was solely on practicality. But I will make a more 'closer to home' analogy for you guys.

*Situation 1:* If I point a gun at you, there is no 'perception of threat'. It *IS* a threat. The gun is the physical evidence of a weapon and the direction of the gun make the whole picture of a threat.​​*Situation 2:* On the other hand, if I say 'I might join a gun club' there is no evidence of a weapon so you have to create a perception of a threat.​​So if you attack me based on *2*, is that acceptable? I will go even further. I am physically smaller than you and all I did was speculated that I *MIGHT* join a gun club, and based on that you attacked a smaller man. Should that response be acceptable as 'self defense' even in the court of public opinion?

I fully expect Poutine's defenders to scatter.


----------



## Foinikas

gambit said:


> Russia pretty much proved them correct, ain't it?


You've invaded or bombed a gazillion countries since the end of the Cold War and the Russians only invaded Ukraine and had a limited war in Georgia. And you talk as if they've reached the UK and are preparing to invade America. 



gambit said:


> NATO does not force anyone to join the club. The Cold War yrs convinced many countries to be suspicious of 'Ivan'. Maybe you should call the peoples of those countries as 'illogical'.


But NATO and the EU should gently refuse to take under its wing countries that could be a nice buffer for both NATO and Russia. This way we can avoid mistrust and escalation. 




gambit said:


> No need. Just a couple times will do the job of proving to the silent readers out there the cowardice of those who would defend Poutine.


Putin,not Poutine. It's Putin. Just like it's Obama and not Osama and Clinton and not Klingon.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504546134609608712

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## oberschlesier

Foinikas said:


> But NATO and the EU should gently refuse to take under its wing countries that could be a nice buffer for both NATO and Russia. This way we can avoid mistrust and escalation.


Why, because of Russia ? Don`t be ridiculous. Now you can see how much they are worth.


----------



## dbc

Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov's plane turns around during flight to China, heads back to Moscow: report


Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov reportedly was headed to Chine before his flight turned around midway and returned to Moscow, according to a report.




www.foxnews.com





…the Chinese …don’t call us …we call you

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## F-22Raptor

Russia has lost 238 Main Battle Tanks to date. They've got to be near 25-30% losses. My understand is they invaded with 750-1000 tanks.

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## Foinikas

oberschlesier said:


> Why, because of Russia ? Don`t be ridiculous. Now you can see how much they are worth.


Yeah but don't forget they have the most nukes in the world.


----------



## oberschlesier

Foinikas said:


> Yeah but don't forget they have the most nukes in the world.


Are they are going to use them ?


----------



## Foinikas

oberschlesier said:


> Are they are going to use them ?


If things escalate to the point of big war,maybe.


----------



## oberschlesier

Foinikas said:


> If things escalate to the point of big war,maybe.


So, it should not escalate to a big war. At the moment Russia is escalating by conducting a war of aggression.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504553808831131662

Russia losing a ton of commanders

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## Ich

LeGenD said:


> This is not acceptable.
> 
> German authorities sleeping? They should separate men from women with the exception of families.



It is the will of the perverted german govs that refugees can do what they want, even killing and raping.

I am sure that the countries, from where these perverted humans came from, are happy that this human garbage is now in germany and not still in their countries.


----------



## kingQamaR

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia has lost 238 Main Battle Tanks to date. They've got to be near 25-30% losses. My understand is they invaded with 750-1000 tanks.



Putin has the best 1980s army fighting a 2022 war using 1914 tactics led by generals promoted for loyalty rather than competence. This is the result.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504437779631120388
> Military advisor to Zelensky now believes Ukraine can win the war with Russia. Premature assessment, but the Russian offensive has largely stalled for a couple weeks now.



_If wishes were_ horses beggars would ride

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## kingQamaR

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> _If wishes were_ horses beggars would ride



There is a possibility that Russia is changing tactic as a result of Western arms support, particularly anti tank weapons which makes tanks and vehicles particularly vulnerable in urban areas. This will force Russia to use missiles cruise missiles and aerial bombing which inevitably causes more destruction and collateral deaths of civilians.. Russia will not and cannot stop as it would be intolerable for Russia to be seen as being defeated by Ukraine whilst they have a full arsenal of weapons that could completely destroy Ukraine



oberschlesier said:


> So, it should not escalate to a big war. At the moment Russia is escalating by conducting a war of aggression.



You can conscript to defend a country but it much harder to take a country using them. And stupid Russians have just proven it to be the case

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## Foinikas

oberschlesier said:


> So, it should not escalate to a big war. At the moment Russia is escalating by conducting a war of aggression.


And who pushed Russia to do that by getting in their turf?


----------



## gambit

Foinikas said:


> *You've invaded or bombed a gazillion countries* since the end of the Cold War and the Russians only invaded Ukraine and had a limited war in Georgia. And you talk as if they've reached the UK and are preparing to invade America.


I do not understand. Why was this information not available to the Poles, Latvians, etc...?



Foinikas said:


> But NATO and the EU should gently refuse to take under its wing countries that could be a nice buffer for both NATO and Russia. This way we can avoid mistrust and escalation.


Wait...You ran away when I compared the responses of the US and Russia regarding perceived threats, now you returned to it? 



Foinikas said:


> Putin,not Poutine. It's Putin. Just like it's Obama and not Osama and Clinton and not Klingon.


Poutine...Poutine...Poutine...Poutine...!!!

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## coffee_cup

Ich said:


> It is the will of the perverted german govs that refugees can do what they want, even killing and raping.
> 
> I am sure that the countries, from where these perverted humans came from, are happy that this human garbage is now in germany and not still in their countries.



Not only in Germany but also Poland.
Several Polish men are arrested for specifically providing "shelter" to young women and children with pretty bad intentions.

Perversion does not have a nationality!


----------



## oberschlesier

Foinikas said:


> And who pushed Russia to do that by getting in their turf?


The Russian policy against Ukraine completely failed and they decided to escalte based on completely wrong information and now they have a huge Problem ?


Yes, I know. It was NATO. It`s a NATO - Ukrainian war.


----------



## Messerschmitt

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504528641048383499

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## kingQamaR

coffee_cup said:


> Not only in Germany but also Poland.
> Several Polish men are arrested for specifically providing "shelter" to young women and children with pretty bad intentions.
> 
> Perversion does not have a nationality!



Mariupol is sadly reporting, woman old age above 65 stayed behind to care for family belonging been raped by incoming Russian troops its common and widespread by the Russians in the city


----------



## oberschlesier

coffee_cup said:


> Not only in Germany but also Poland.
> Several Polish men are arrested for specifically providing "shelter" to young women and children with pretty bad intentions.
> 
> Perversion does not have a nationality!


Several Polish men are arrested for specifically providing "shelter" to young women and children with pretty bad intentions.

source?


----------



## Ich

coffee_cup said:


> Not only in Germany but also Poland.
> Several Polish men are arrested for specifically providing "shelter" to young women and children.
> 
> Perversion does not have a nationality!



Sure, there are always some perverted idiots. But if you look into the german criminal statistics, 2/3 of all killings and rapings in germany were done by refugees or done by migration background. Poland does not have this. And that is cause of Poland do not let in refugees from Africa or greater middle east. Poland is doing right at that point.

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## Foinikas

gambit said:


> I do not understand. Why was this information not available to the Poles, Latvians, etc...?


That USA has invaded and intervened in so many countries?


----------



## coffee_cup

kingQamaR said:


> Mariupol is sadly reporting, woman old age above 65 stayed behind to care for family belonging been raped by incoming Russian troops its common and widespread by the Russians in the city


Who is "Mariupol reporting"?

Look bro, I get it that both Russians and West do their propaganda to spread their PoV. But do take a critical look on who is reporting what and how much of that makes sense before blindly spreading it.

The report about Polish men is not made up by me it was from the same "Daily (trash) Mail" which was cited in the article to report the crime in Germany. And I just wanted to mention it clearly (since they have highlighted only "Nigerian" and "Iraqi" Ukrainian who committed that crime) that perversion has no nationality. Polish men are as bad as Nigerian, Iraqi, German, Pakistani, Indian Russian, American or whoever.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504562740161126407

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## Wood

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> _If wishes were_ horses beggars would ride


Some of these statements are to keep troop morale up!


----------



## oberschlesier

coffee_cup said:


> Who is "Mariupol reporting"?
> 
> Look bro, I get it that both Russians and West do their propaganda to spread their PoV. But do take a critical look on who is reporting what and how much of that makes sense before blindly spreading it.
> 
> The report about Polish men is not made up by me it was from the same "Daily (trash) Mail" which was cited in the article to report the crime in Germany. And I just wanted to mention it clearly (since they have highlighted only "Nigerian" and "Iraqi" Ukrainian who committed that crime) that perversion has no nationality. Polish men are as bad as Nigerian, Iraqi, German, Pakistani, Indian Russian, American or whoever.


There was one unclear incident for 2M refugees in PL. 99.9% of the people are welcoming Ukrainians.


----------



## Wood

kingQamaR said:


> There is a possibility that Russia is changing tactic as a result of Western arms support, particularly anti tank weapons which makes tanks and vehicles particularly vulnerable in urban areas. This will force Russia to use missiles cruise missiles and aerial bombing which inevitably causes more destruction and collateral deaths of civilians.. Russia will not and cannot stop as it would be intolerable for Russia to be seen as being defeated by Ukraine whilst they have a full arsenal of weapons that could completely destroy Ukraine


Yes, military defeat is unimaginably bad for Putin's domestic political outlook. The best case scenario for Ukraine is a stalemate with some sort of treaty. Putin can at the least dress it up for his gullible Z boys.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504311666158325761


----------



## Titanium100

oberschlesier said:


> There was one unclear incident for 2M refugees in PL. 99.9% of the people are welcoming Ukrainians.



I have been in Ukraine many times and understand the Ukrainians inside out. The Polish will be fatigued pretty quickly. The Ukrainians are the definition of criminal way of living. You will see for yourself soon and already 2 million inside Poland.. I fully expect the polish to be feed up with them very very quickly.

The Ukrainians I know are one of the worst people on god's earth.. They are social people easy to mingle with and out-going but extremely criminal and mischievous and for them that is just life basically normal.. It is just the Ukrainian way of life.. The polish are the opposite


----------



## coffee_cup

oberschlesier said:


> Several Polish men are arrested for specifically providing "shelter" to young women and children with pretty bad intentions.
> 
> source?


The same article which was cited in that post was also reporting about Polish men. 



Ich said:


> Sure, there are always some perverted idiots. But if you look into the german criminal statistics, 2/3 of all killings and rapings in germany were done by refugees or done by migration background. Poland does not have this. And that is cause of Poland do not let in refugees from Africa or greater middle east. Poland is doing right at that point.



Can you provide the link to those statistics? Please do not cite the tabloid "Bild" or other media outlets, I am so done with the propaganda outlets.

According to the statistics that I have seen, I am quoting from 2016 which is available where about 8000 such cases were reported and criminals in majority of such cases were close people to the victim (mostly ex). Now media would want to you to believe that it the immigrants, but statistics do not back it. Check this one: (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vergewaltigung)

Immigrants are easier to blame for all the problems. But those problems were only due to immigrant, I would be the first one to support their deportation or not letting them in at all. 

But this is not true. Also not in this case.

And I know that is a bit off-topic and if you want we can discuss it on another thread.

Back to the war, it is day 21 now. As the things stand, if Russia is losing $20 billion a day, they must have lost be now $420 billion. Where are they getting this money from?


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504533986646933509
Seems like there is some tangible success for Russian side recently


----------



## Ali_Baba

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504311666158325761



They can just send pictures with geo-location turned on for photo's - takes all issues of location inaccuracy out of the equation etc.


----------



## Ich

coffee_cup said:


> The report about Polish men is not made up by me it was from the same "Daily (trash) Mail" which was cited in the article to report the crime in Germany. And I just wanted to mention it clearly (since they have highlighted only "Nigerian" and "Iraqi" Ukrainian who committed that crime) that perversion has no nationality. Polish men are as bad as Nigerian, Iraqi, German, Pakistani, Indian Russian, American or whoever.



No. You mix it up. 

I am here on pdf cause i like some of the countries displayed here much. 

But what was coming to e.g. germany has not much to do with the countries they came from. Some countries even open prison doors and send them to Europe. You cant compare the countries from where the garbage is coming from with garbage itself. In most countries this garbage would be in jail and that is why this gabage try the "refugee style" into europe.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

fun Sani mortar


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504559936805687302

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504449884153389064

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## coffee_cup

Ich said:


> No. You mix it up.
> 
> I am here on pdf cause i like some of the countries displayed here much.
> 
> But what was coming to e.g. germany has not much to do with the countries they came from. Some countries even open prison doors and send them to Europe. You cant compare the countries from where the garbage is coming from with garbage itself. In most countries this garbage would be in jail and that is why this gabage try the "refugee style" into europe.



Look man, it will derail the thread. I am aware of all the media frenzy against immigrant males in Germany (and in some cases it is also true), but do not bracket them all as "prisoners".

At most, majority of them are economic immigrants who are there for search of job. Yes, there are bad apples as well. But there are many very highly qualified and sophisticated immigrant males who are contributing to German welfare system.

BTW, the next generations of Australians turned out pretty well. Even though their ancestors were criminals who were sent from Britain jails to settle down there. It works both ways.

And with that, lets rest this here. Peace!


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504528242568531976

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## Paul2

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504535444209426438



1/3 of attacking units are out of action, 1/5 lost

They physically lack forces now to do cohesive offences. Only local offensives are possible.

Ukraine still can't leverage its numbers because lack of armoured transports, logistics of its own. It lost huge amounts of tanks early in the war too.

Ukraine needs armour, heavy artillery, mobile SAMs like Buk.

They can trade, and attrite enemy armour, but its own _offensive_ resources were small at the beginning, and are even smaller now. _With resources they have now, they certainly cannot pull out a conventional counterattack to regain initiative._

Ukrainian counteroffensive will be painful without some solid fresh cohesive force on armour.

Russia still has tons of armour despite incredible losses.

Simple summary:

Russia — lost, and cannot regain the initiative due to attrition, loss of cohesion, logistics, forces spread thin on territory/population control
Ukraine — cannot gain the initiative due to numerical disadvantage in offensive equipment like armour, heavy artillery, airforce, loss of cohesion due to previous contacts with enemy, and being spread thin by defensive manoeuvres.

The biggest decision is how long is Ukraine will keep attriting Russian offensives before it thinks Russians are weakened enough to start pushing them back.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504544307725975553

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## kingQamaR

coffee_cup said:


> Who is "Mariupol reporting"?
> 
> Look bro, I get it that both Russians and West do their propaganda to spread their PoV. But do take a critical look on who is reporting what and how much of that makes sense before blindly spreading it.
> 
> The report about Polish men is not made up by me it was from the same "Daily (trash) Mail" which was cited in the article to report the crime in Germany. And I just wanted to mention it clearly (since they have highlighted only "Nigerian" and "Iraqi" Ukrainian who committed that crime) that perversion has no nationality. Polish men are as bad as Nigerian, Iraqi, German, Pakistani, Indian Russian, American or whoever.



Hi 
It’s Ukrainian sources from inside city are gathering what’s going in there and logging all the war crimes for the future dates I heard it by a Ukrainian representative lady on U.K. radio station I doubt she’d make it up to millions of listening to her talk. I can and do ignore lots of propaganda, on this report, woman are always vulnerable in wars targets for any troops


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

LeGenD said:


> Armata spotted anywhere? Anybody? I asked this before but nobody responded. Come on guys.











We Might Know Why Russia's New Armata Tank Is Missing from Ukraine


The T-14 Armata tank may not be in Ukraine, simply because Moscow doesn't have enough to actually send into battle.




www.19fortyfive.com




*Not in Ukraine*

The T-14 may not be in Ukraine, simply because Moscow doesn’t have enough to actually send. As previously reported, Russian tank manufacturer Uralvagonzavod first said the T-14 would be delivered in 2018. Then the distribution of the first nine tanks would come in 2019. After this date came and went, the leadership said 20 would be tested and 80 would be ready by the end of 2021.

Moscow had announced last year that the T-15 Armata would enter serial production this year, but it seems that the new cutting-edge MBTs wont’ be ready until after _next _year at the very earliest.


----------



## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> How do you take it out of circulation in China? You need them to do domestic trade.......



You mean, suppose that before the Ukrainian war, China spent $1 trillion a year to buy oil and other resources from Russia. After the Ukrainian war, China printed 6 trillion CNY every year to buy resources from Russia, and Russia used 6 trillion CNY to buy goods from China. Because this is far greater than Russia's previous purchases, the entry of these CNY into the Chinese market will bring some inflation to China. And China will also add $1 trillion in additional reserves. 

But are you aware that China has a serious overcapacity, and the increased Russian orders will not bring too much inflation, but will only stimulate economic development. Additional foreign exchange reserves can be invested in other countries through B&R, which also means transferring inflation to the world.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504543762604863490

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504577559144669197

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504578164957274117

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## The SC

The latest situation map in Ukraine..

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504579851788947458
Off topic, but here's something beautiful in a dark time


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504541378075889666

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504532440060157961

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Foinikas

oberschlesier said:


> The Russian policy against Ukraine completely failed and they decided to escalte based on completely wrong information and now they have a huge Problem ?
> 
> 
> Yes, I know. It was NATO. It`s a NATO - Ukrainian war.


Think of two gangs. One gang gets into the other's turf and tries to take the people on its side. The other gang gets angry and when a turf war is about to break out the entire neighborhood ends up in the middle of it.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504531811216596995

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504562381191581698

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

I think Kharkov and Mariupol are the key. Kharkov is Ukraine's second biggest city after Kiev. Mariupol is Ukraine's second biggest port city after Odessa. Putin can install Yanukovych in Kharkov as a rival government to Kiev.


----------



## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> Let me ask you a simple question.
> 
> What would a Chinese Bread seller do if Russian pay them 1 barrel of oil for 100 breads?? Can the Bread seller than sell it? How? Go to the corner of a street and sell it on the road side? I mean, it may make sense if only him doing that. But then how about the same Russian who gave a Chinese Furniture Seller 1 barrel of oil for 100 chair? Or a mobile phone vendor 100 mobile phone? Or 100 pack chewing gum? How are you going to get rid of the oil? I mean, I made 100 bread, all those material I put into making that 100 bread I cannot get it back because I wasn't paid in Money but I got paid by a barrel of oil...., but I can't use the oil, it's not refined and I can't just put it in my car, nor can I sell it, it's not like there is a "oil r' us" in every corner in Chinese street taking rogue crude oil from Chinese street vendor....
> 
> And if I were that vendor, I would just sell 100 bread to another Chinese vendor or to a Japanese buyer to get 100 Yuan. Why would I go all in and deep into trouble and being a fender of rogue oil when I can just sell it to other for cold hard cash?
> 
> As I said, it may work in your mind, but it is not how economy work...I mean, you are free to believe you can do that, but all I am saying is this is not how economy works....


Let me remind you of one thing.

In 2021, USA increased the issuance of currency by $3 trillion, most of these dollars entered China and bought Chinese goods, the US trade deficit reached US $1.1 trillion.

However, these new orders did not bring inflation to China, China's CPI was only 0.8% in 2021. These orders have instead stimulated China's economic development, with China's economy growing by $3 trillion in 2021.
China's factory easily eats trillions of US dollars of orders from USA, why do you think hundreds of billions of US dollars of orders from Russia will bring inflation to China?

You can't use the economic model of western countries to analyze China. China has a serious overcapacity. The increase of overseas markets will not bring inflation, but economic growth.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504561369529602055


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## pkuser2k12




----------



## Tamerlane

I'm 90% sure that Zelensky is hiding in Poland. Some news reports said that he's in the US embassy there.

It's a joke to imagine that leaders of other countries have been travelling to Kiev, which is surrounded by Russian forces, to see Zelensky. Who are they kidding?

*Ukraine war: European leaders risk train ride to meet Zelensky*

The prime ministers of Poland, Slovenia and the Czech Republic met Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday evening as a curfew began in Kyiv.









Ukraine war: European leaders risk train ride to meet Zelensky


After a perilous train journey from Poland to Kyiv, European leaders tell Ukraine "you're not alone".



www.bbc.com

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## LeGenD

Hamartia Antidote said:


> We Might Know Why Russia's New Armata Tank Is Missing from Ukraine
> 
> 
> The T-14 Armata tank may not be in Ukraine, simply because Moscow doesn't have enough to actually send into battle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.19fortyfive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Not in Ukraine*
> 
> The T-14 may not be in Ukraine, simply because Moscow doesn’t have enough to actually send. As previously reported, Russian tank manufacturer Uralvagonzavod first said the T-14 would be delivered in 2018. Then the distribution of the first nine tanks would come in 2019. After this date came and went, the leadership said 20 would be tested and 80 would be ready by the end of 2021.
> 
> Moscow had announced last year that the T-15 Armata would enter serial production this year, but it seems that the new cutting-edge MBTs wont’ be ready until after _next _year at the very earliest.



Dear, I was teasing.

Russia dispatched BMPT-72 to Ukraine:









Russia Sends Its "Terminator" Advanced Urban Fighting Vehicles Towards Ukraine


Only nine of the BMPT-72s are thought to be in frontline Russian use, and they have all been seen heading towards Ukraine.




www.thedrive.com





But they are hesitant to dispatch Armata.

The answer is obvious; it is good for parades, photo sessions, YouTube and video games.

Russians will not risk it in Ukraine.

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## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504574546619379712

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## kingQamaR

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504449884153389064



Mercenaries will not fight if they don't think they can win. And they are more realistic about the situation than Putin who receives reports via generals too scared to tell the truth.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

I think if Russia pummels Kiev with thousands of Iskankers they can force a surrender but the downside would be millions of dead civilians.


----------



## pkuser2k12

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504562598615863303


----------



## Paul2

LeGenD said:


> Dear, I was teasing.
> 
> Russia dispatched BMPT-72 to Ukraine:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Sends Its "Terminator" Advanced Urban Fighting Vehicles Towards Ukraine
> 
> 
> Only nine of the BMPT-72s are thought to be in frontline Russian use, and they have all been seen heading towards Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But they are hesitant to dispatch Armata.
> 
> The answer is obvious; it is good for parades, photo sessions, YouTube and video games.
> 
> Russians will not risk it in Ukraine.




The obvious question is what they want to do now.

Ukrainians are now very successful with their defence anchored around large cities. Russian attrition rates against this strategy are scaring Russians from further moves.

All their action for the last week was trying to take smaller, less defended towns.

Will Ukrainians risk compromising their very good defensive stance by repositioning troops for the offensive, while knowing that their numbers, and own offensive firepower aren't enough?

@jhungary

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504587790453035010

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

A win for Russia is a win for China.

1. Russia is a puppet / proxy country of China.

2. Russia is a neighbor of China.

3. Domination of Ukraine enables China to connect to western Europe via the One Road program, connecting the western shores of The Old World with the eastern shores of The Old World.


----------



## oberschlesier

Foinikas said:


> Think of two gangs. One gang gets into the other's turf and tries to take the people on its side. The other gang gets angry and when a turf war is about to break out the entire neighborhood ends up in the middle of it.


Nope, wrong comparision. NATO\EU is not activelly recruting, it`s attracting. Russia is desperate for the people not escaping.


----------



## jamal18

Tai Hai Chen said:


> I think Kharkov and Mariupol are the key. Kharkov is Ukraine's second biggest city after Kiev. Mariupol is Ukraine's second biggest port city after Odessa. Putin can install Yanukovych in Kharkov as a rival government to Kiev.


The main fighting is in Mariupol and the east. The best part of the Ukrainian army is based there and has been surrounded and is in the process of being destroyed. Fighting in Kiev, by contrast has been minor. 

Once the east is secured, I think the Russians will move to Kiev to control it. I don't think a 'rival' government in Kharkov will work. The Russians have to take Kiev in order to control all of Ukraine if they are to acheive their war aims.

Unless of course the Kiev regime accepts Russian demands.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

BTR-4 knocked out in Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504572726845005824


----------



## Wood

Paul2 said:


> The obvious question is what they want to do now.
> 
> Ukrainians are now very successful with their defence anchored around large cities. Russian attrition rates against this strategy are scaring Russians from further moves.
> 
> All their action for the last week was trying to take smaller, less defended towns.
> 
> Will Ukrainians risk compromising their very good defensive stance by repositioning troops for the offensive, while knowing that their numbers, and own offensive firepower aren't enough?
> 
> @jhungary


Will the Ukrainian side not be tired and less effective over time? The Russians can rotate with some reserves.

Even though the defenders start with a higher motivation, human endurance has its limits. I wonder if they can withstand the barrage of artillery for long. This may be the reason why Zelenskyy is pushing of meeting with Putin as soon as possible

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504561279612207119

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## LeGenD

Tai Hai Chen said:


> I think if Russia pummels Kiev with thousands of Iskankers they can force a surrender but the downside would be millions of dead civilians.


Do you think Russia has that many? Come on, dude. Statements should be realistic and supported.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504558349274304518

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504580157079580676
lmao

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1 | Wow Wow:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504556682734624776

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## Paul2

dBSPL said:


> They started to leave Poland alone in just 1 month. Poland could be screwed up. If Russia creates the regime it wants in Ukraine, at least 4-5 million Ukrainians will migrate to Poland permanently.
> 
> Currently, the number of refugees left Ukraine around 4 million.



On the cynical note. I think Polish right wing was happy seeing "more white immigrants!" until a certain point, but now they face Ukrainians making a double digit of population in some areas.

It's like UAE, they once cheered "more Arabs coming!" to offset their demographic imbalance vs. Indians, and now they are more scared of Egyptians than Indians because:

There are just so many of them
They are de facto Arabs
They can speak Arabic
They are increasingly dissolving into Emirati ethnicity, and trying to pass off as locals. There is nowhere in the world you will see Egyptians in kanduras, and turbans, but here.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

LeGenD said:


> Do you think Russia has that many? Come on, dude. Statements should be realistic and supported.



They can build a lot of that. In WW2 Germany built lots of V2 within months and more than 3,000 were shot at Britain.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504546775553687563


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504550403584761858


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504550403584761858



Could be Smerch artillery. There were lots of these seen In Kherson yesterday.


----------



## Paul2

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Could be Smerch artillery. There were lots of these seen In Kherson yesterday.



Too slow, something bigger, with low thrust to weight

Not a ballistic missile, as these would start vertically.


----------



## The SC

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Could be Smerch artillery. There were lots of these seen In Kherson yesterday.


These are 2 big ones.. Might be Iskander TBM









Paul2 said:


> Too slow, something bigger, with low thrust to weight
> 
> Not a ballistic missile, as these would start vertically.


They can start vertically and make a small turn..

Also.. In 2007, a new missile for the system (and launcher) was test fired, the R-500 cruise missile, with a range of applications up to 2000 km or more.. Presently, "Iskander-M" system, outfitted with cruise and ballistic missiles, is being delivered to the military. In 2013, army missile brigades first received missiles equipped with a new control system.. As of 2018..


----------



## LeGenD

Tai Hai Chen said:


> They can build a lot of that. In WW2 Germany built lots of V2 within months and more than 3,000 were shot at Britain.


Cost and complexity factors are different now.

Russia have used hundreds of Iskander-M SRBM in Ukraine by now - more than in any other conflict in which Russia was involved in history.

Russia would have additional stockpiles but is it wise to exhaust it in Ukraine?

Russian economy was subjected to largest set-of-sanctions on record as well. Russia won't have much funds to spare for mass production of SRBMs for use in Ukraine.

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## patero

LeGenD said:


> Cost and complexity factors are different now.
> 
> Russia have used hundreds of Iskander-M SRBM in Ukraine by now - more than in any other conflict in which Russia was involved in history.
> 
> Russia would have additional stockpiles but is it wise to exhaust it in Ukraine?
> 
> Russian economy was subjected to largest set-of-sanctions on record as well.* Russia won't have much funds to spare for mass production of SRBMs for use in Ukraine.*


Will tech sanctions have any direct effect on Russias ability to replenish stocks of various missles used in the current conflict?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504557716282429448

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## Hack-Hook

dBSPL said:


> The European Union demanded that Turkey shut down RT and Sputnik channels.
> 
> Head of the European Union Delegation to Turkey Nikolaus Meyer-Landrut stated that they expect Ankara to impose restrictions on "Russian propaganda channels" such as the Russian television channel RT.
> 
> They totally screwed up. We should start by closing the European media organizations that make anti-Turkish propaganda from morning to night.


they refused turkey entry into European union and now they dictate them what to do in their country . some people are just arrogant and have memory span of fraction of a second

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504555560556974081


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> You need to have enough foreign currency in your own country to trade so they can guarantee the value of your own.


for that you can use valuable metals and stones , there is no need to use foreign currency


----------



## The SC

The Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, General Valery Zaluzhny:
We protect the entire civilized world.. It is a struggle for freedom and justice, peace and the future, innocent people and our statehood..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504528835441831943

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## thetutle

Ali_Baba said:


> Huh - the Russians would need to go via Moldova / Romania / Serbia to get there first!!!!


a 1,400 km march through Ukraine and NATO territory. Although they could unleash a terrorist campaign using undercover agents and local Serbian helpers. It just means we or the CIA would identify them and shoot them on sight. 

I would turn against my own relatives if they did something like this.


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Marco Economic 101. How do I define a note worth no more than 10 cents to have $100 dollars? You can't just say "This note is worth $100" and people are going to believe it is when it only worth 10 cents. You need a way to "Guarantee" that value. You do that by have 76 GBP in your bank, and when you trade that 76 GBP with an UK Bank, you get the value of $100 back, and the UK (or Australia, or China, or Japan or any other country on earth) did the same to keep their own currency valued.


then how dollar value is measured , I'm just curious, because every one knew since more than 50 years ago US reserves is a lot less than the amount of money they are printing


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504597290157285377

Russia has more than 1,500 losses now. And it’s a completely unsustainable rate

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wergeland 2.0

Tamerlane said:


> I'm 90% sure that Zelensky is hiding in Poland. Some news reports said that he's in the US embassy there.
> 
> It's a joke to imagine that leaders of other countries have been travelling to Kiev, which is surrounded by Russian forces, to see Zelensky. Who are they kidding?
> 
> *Ukraine war: European leaders risk train ride to meet Zelensky*
> 
> The prime ministers of Poland, Slovenia and the Czech Republic met Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday evening as a curfew began in Kyiv.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine war: European leaders risk train ride to meet Zelensky
> 
> 
> After a perilous train journey from Poland to Kyiv, European leaders tell Ukraine "you're not alone".
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com



you must be kidding me
thats prime monty python level

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504500582249373702

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## Paul2

The heaviest fighting is happening now in the South Eastern direction, where Russians have direct supply lines. Russians spread their forces through small towns, but they still have a local numerical advantage, and firepower due to supplies from Russia.

This is where Russia also has the most heavy presence of trained regular forces.

There are some indications now of Russians pulling forces from other directions to southeast, because they probably want this to be what they will walk away after this war.

To move forward, Ukraine will definitely need much more heavier firepower to break open more solidly defended, and entrenched Russian formations in South East.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504541336992575493

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> 2.) Again, back to gold. As I said, there are 2 issue.
> a.) You either have a super inflated exchange rate or super slow economic growth to offset the demand of gold backing currency.
> b.) anyone with similar amount of gold can come in and influx your economy, Again, I can buy 1 ton of gold for 61 millions dollars, but if Russia uses gold as backing currency, my personal wealth will expanded 10 fold because I can use it in Russia for 608 millions dollars, and it is ABSOLUTELY possible to own 1 ton of gold.


a small problem with your master plan to made your wealth 10 time in one night .
In Russia they give you ruble for your gold not dollar



jhungary said:


> So, where did the Chinese extra CNY come from? It does not come out of a bank out of thin air
> 
> You either print it or you pull it from overseas. Either way, doing so will damage your currency value.


what extra cny ? Its part of china foreign trade . china previously paid Russia dollar for oil , now they pay yuan


----------



## LeGenD

This thread is not for arguments over economics. Stay on topic.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504483484127039492

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## dbc

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504483484127039492



are they looking for food?

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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> The heaviest fighting is happening now in the South Eastern direction, where Russians have direct supply lines. Russians spread their forces through small towns, but they still have a local numerical advantage, and firepower due to supplies from Russia.
> 
> This is where Russia also has the most heavy presence of trained regular forces.
> 
> There are some indications now of Russians pulling forces from other directions to southeast, because they probably want this to be what they will walk away after this war.




At current rates, Russian losses will exceed 3,000 by mid to late April. I don’t see how they can sustain this.


----------



## beast89

The SC said:


> The Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, General Valery Zaluzhny:
> We protect the entire civilized world.. It is a struggle for freedom and justice, peace and the future, innocent people and our statehood..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504528835441831943


Ukrainians officials have been throwing the term "civilised world" left right and centre. Saw an official on BBC spamming it couple of minutes ago. Could have used democratic, but then again in this country russians aren't pure slavics is becoming mainstream notion.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504603396757671944

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504603754431143947

It’s like they’ve never been trained


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Let me ask you a simple question.
> 
> What would a Chinese Bread seller do if Russian pay them 1 barrel of oil for 100 breads?? Can the Bread seller than sell it? How? Go to the corner of a street and sell it on the road side? I mean, it may make sense if only him doing that. But then how about the same Russian who gave a Chinese Furniture Seller 1 barrel of oil for 100 chair? Or a mobile phone vendor 100 mobile phone? Or 100 pack chewing gum? How are you going to get rid of the oil? I mean, I made 100 bread, all those material I put into making that 100 bread I cannot get it back because I wasn't paid in Money but I got paid by a barrel of oil...., but I can't use the oil, it's not refined and I can't just put it in my car, nor can I sell it, it's not like there is a "oil r' us" in every corner in Chinese street taking rogue crude oil from Chinese street vendor....
> 
> And if I were that vendor, I would just sell 100 bread to another Chinese vendor or to a Japanese buyer to get 100 Yuan. Why would I go all in and deep into trouble and being a fender of rogue oil when I can just sell it to other for cold hard cash?
> 
> As I said, it may work in your mind, but it is not how economy work...I mean, you are free to believe you can do that, but all I am saying is this is not how economy works....


let just say , Russia sell to some chinese refinery or power planet or whoever own them in china and get Yuan and then use that yuan to pay to that chinese baker or carpenter


----------



## Foinikas

oberschlesier said:


> Nope, wrong comparision. NATO\EU is not activelly recruting, it`s attracting. Russia is desperate for the people not escaping.


Well then,tell them to stop attracting and start talking about neutrality,buffer zones and peace.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504603270723088386


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504572109531627525


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> How do you take it out of circulation in China? You need them to do domestic trade.......


very simple , put the dollar you used to pay Russia to get the oil in your treasury and print yuan backed by that dollar and pay it to Russia


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504595426963509251
Latest UK assessment


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504535827409514501

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504529024202256390


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Then how the Russian get the bread? If the bread makers are not involved,.
> 
> And you can't balance RUB:RMB because it's one side who pay the money, and the other side pay with oil...The same equation applies, where do the Chinese get the extra money to pay for the Russian oil to begin with?


what part is hard Russia sell its oil in Yuan , and use Yuan to buy from chine , the transaction will be by china own money transferring system and will have nothing to do with swift . and then Russia use that money to get the things they need from china and other countries that accept yuan


----------



## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> You mean, suppose that before the Ukrainian war, China spent $1 trillion a year to buy oil and other resources from Russia. After the Ukrainian war, China printed 6 trillion CNY every year to buy resources from Russia, and Russia used 6 trillion CNY to buy goods from China. Because this is far greater than Russia's previous purchases, the entry of these CNY into the Chinese market will bring some inflation to China. And China will also add $1 trillion in additional reserves.
> 
> But are you aware that China has a serious overcapacity, and the increased Russian orders will not bring too much inflation, but will only stimulate economic development. Additional foreign exchange reserves can be invested in other countries through B&R, which also means transferring inflation to the world.


First of all, if you do that, you still need to digest that "6 Trillions" Yuan you printed, and if it is like you said you are printing it every year, that mean you deflate your own currency by the same volume every year. Just because they are going to reinvest it back to China does not mean anything, the more currency floating in the free market the more it deflate your currency value. That's macroeconomic 101....6 times the currency inflation is a LOT in case you are wondering, and 1 trillions dollar added to circulation every year is also a lot. US as a whole, with massive Financial backing, only needed 2 trillions dollars in circulation, and you are talking about adding an entire US circulation in China every 2 years......

Secondly, you can't simply pick up all the Russian oil and gas. 1.) you had contract with other oil production country (Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Iran) So what is going to happen to all that contract? You get them as well or you just break them? Gas also is a problem, 2.) China don't use Natural Gas or LNG (not LPG) as much as the entire EU combine (China import around 50 billions cubic meters, EU as a whole imported around 420 billions cubic meters)









List of countries by natural gas imports - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





So are you telling me China is just going to stomach it (Bear in mind you can't sell them) or you are saying China are to ditch all their renewable and switch to gas as a whole??

Finally, infrastructure is different. Russian oil is not the same as oil from Saudi or Qatar or even Iran, Russian oil is heavy oil, Saudi oil is Light Crude, you can technically refine Heavy into Light Crude, but are you saying you are going to build a few refinery just for this change? Because you can just use them Russian Crude like you do with Saudi and Iran Crude. Another issue is all the delivery network Russian currently have is toward EU, you will also need to expand the network to even accommodate slight increase. Are you going to pay for that as well??


----------



## Paul2

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504541336992575493



It's a huge force, but it has no offensive posture.

If Russia will completely go nuts, and attack from Belarus, NATO can easily push the back to the border, but otherwise unless they incurse on Belarus territory, they will just keep cross order aggression going.

This is why I am telling there is really no "win" scenario for NATO bloc in Ukraine unless they arm Ukraine to such extend, that they outgun Russians (this is impossible without huge airforce.)

The only real victory scenario for the West in Ukraine is possible if Ukraine can not only fully reclaim its territory, but also disrupt Russian offensive staging in Belarus, and inside Russia itself.

This is clearly impossible without NATO going on offensive.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Apollon said:


> Good luck with that. As it stands Russia cant deliver oil or gas in a few month because technology embargo and Russia has no ability to make its own. For same reason collapsed oil industry in Venezuela and Russia could not help them.


we were under sanction for decades and we even manage to restart Venezuela Oil industry . I'm sure Russia industrial capabilities is not less than us

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## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> Let me remind you of one thing.
> 
> In 2021, USA increased the issuance of currency by $3 trillion, most of these dollars entered China and bought Chinese goods, the US trade deficit reached US $1.1 trillion.
> 
> However, these new orders did not bring inflation to China, China's CPI was only 0.8% in 2021. These orders have instead stimulated China's economic development, with China's economy growing by $3 trillion in 2021.
> China's factory easily eats trillions of US dollars of orders from USA, why do you think hundreds of billions of US dollars of orders from Russia will bring inflation to China?
> 
> You can't use the economic model of western countries to analyze China. China has a serious overcapacity. The increase of overseas markets will not bring inflation, but economic growth.



It's US, not China that issue the insurance of currency, why would Chinese currency be inflated? I am not aware Yuan is pegged to USD. On the other hand, US inflation is at 7.9% in 2021........And then you are talking about a massively backed up USD network which have numerous way to share their currency debt. If you do that in China (Ie printing 15 trillions Yuan) you are going to get more than 7.9% inflation

And there are no "Eastern" or "Western" economic model, you may have different law, but it is the same basic economic principle that applies across all country. What you are effectively saying is "Supply and Demand" principle does not really apply in China..............LOL


----------



## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> At current rates, Russian losses will exceed 3,000 by mid to late April. I don’t see how they can sustain this.



By stopping losses. They without a doubt know how much they lose in botched offensives.

They still have tons of armour, SAMs, and artillery to hold where they are.

Even if you completely remove Russian irregular forces like its national guard, and paramilitaries, Russian regular forces will still be big enough.


----------



## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504506985328386061


These poor people will be conquered next by russia.


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> A.) It's illegal


what's illegal about Russia selling oil for example to Benin ?


jhungary said:


> B.) You will need to find an oversea bank that not afraid of being sue for sanction violation.


if its not done in Dollar or EU , then suing the bank will be illegal
and you always can use alternate transaction system that bypass swift.


----------



## Wergeland 2.0

Foinikas said:


> Well then,tell them to stop attracting and start talking about neutrality,buffer zones and peace.



i said this so many times. 
NATO leaders and for the most part USA UK and Poland have done a big mistake by trying to make Ukraine a member. I really see no good reason for Ukraine becoming so hostile to its big neighbor. 

When you push a competitor too far into a corner he will respond violently. Thsts just human survival instinct kicking in. Its no different for a big country like Russia.

The greatest politicians are those who know the right balance. Being cocky and arrogant is recipe for unexpected negative consequences.

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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> By stopping losses. They without a doubt know how much they lose in botched offensives.
> 
> They still have tons of armour, SAMs, and artillery to hold where they are.




Hard to see the rate of losses slowing to much with the new influx of weapons the US is providing. 

Their MBT losses already are at 25-30%.


----------



## Paul2

@jhungary can you comment on my previous posts today?


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> What you failed to see is you either needed "Extra" money to buy "Extra" oil from Russia.
> 
> Or you don't buy stuff from other country and spare those money to buy "Extra" Russian oil.
> 
> As I said before, you can choose, and if you honestly think this is a lot better to trust a country that 4 big credit agency just listed as "Junk" status, instead of other client, then be my guest, I have no complaint.....
> 
> I mean, it's your money.


can you tell me what's the rating has to do with ability to provide oil . 
a question what's the rating of Iran by those credit agency ? do you have doubt if anybody want to buy oil from us we can provide it to them in short notice ?


----------



## Flight of falcon

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504603396757671944




Just like I predicted . 
Clown gets the prize for destroying his own country and doing the most conferences by any human alive .

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## K_Bin_W

Pan tha yaar the biggest criminal in the history of mankind calls Put-in a war criminal... Now I have heard everything.









Kremlin tells Biden: U.S. has no right to lecture Russia on war crimes


The Kremlin said on Wednesday Joe Biden's claim that President Vladimir Putin was a "war criminal" for invading Ukraine was an unforgivable remark by the leader of a country which had killed civilians in conflicts across the world.




www.reuters.com


----------



## Flight of falcon

K_Bin_W said:


> Pan tha yaar the biggest criminal in the history of mankind calls Put-in a war criminal... Now I have heard everything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kremlin tells Biden: U.S. has no right to lecture Russia on war crimes
> 
> 
> The Kremlin said on Wednesday Joe Biden's claim that President Vladimir Putin was a "war criminal" for invading Ukraine was an unforgivable remark by the leader of a country which had killed civilians in conflicts across the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com




It takes one to know one ….


----------



## thetutle

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Mosin Nagant rifles. Accurate. Powerful.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504498298324930562


They are manning a checkpoint with them. oh deary deary me. Russia wants them dead. It clearly doesn't trust them. I'm surprised it hasn't issued them muskets.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Amliunion said:


> What the ****!!!!
> 
> 
> “It’s one thing for sarin gas to be used on people in far away Syria who are Muslim and who are of a different culture but what is Europe going to do when it’s used on European soil on Europeans?”
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504460026471190533


nothing , the European were used to use these things on themselves


----------



## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> Their MBT losses already are at 25-30%.



Even if they lose half of all tanks they threw on Ukraine, they will still have hundreds.

The biggest thing in South East for Ukraine is to prevent Russian forces from consolidating, and keeping their attrition rate high by delivering defeat in details, and using their anti-tank advantage.

To really hope to push Russians out, Ukraine needs to inflict like 60%-70% destruction on Russian units, and they are still very far from that.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Important note: the US is delivering 100 Tactical Unmanned Aerial Systems to Ukraine. Apparently each “system” is 10 Switchblades. 

That’s 1,000 total Switchblades

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> The obvious question is what they want to do now.
> 
> Ukrainians are now very successful with their defence anchored around large cities. Russian attrition rates against this strategy are scaring Russians from further moves.
> 
> All their action for the last week was trying to take smaller, less defended towns.
> 
> Will Ukrainians risk compromising their very good defensive stance by repositioning troops for the offensive, while knowing that their numbers, and own offensive firepower aren't enough?
> 
> @jhungary


Probably a more poignant question is "What the Russian can do"?

As I said in my previous analysis before, Russia only have certain amount of time to conduct this operation. In the military, we call it "*Culmination Point*" which is a point where the attacker no longer sustain their initial operation, to which the invasion is either stagnate or faulter. I wrote that it will be at the 28th days (Was going to write a post with this topic on the 28th days, that's why I came back here) Gen Ben Hodges famously said on TV he gave 10 days 3 days ago which would make it 30th days

Each component on field (vehicle, weapon, logistic and solider) have to be replace roughly 4 weeks after the initial operation in order to sustain an operation, otherwise what you see in 28th days or so is going to be where the line is going to be because without fresh input, there will not be any major progress, and I cannot see how Russia can replace those lost. 

Bear in mind Russia is a big country (like REALLY big) which mean domestically, they are going to need substantial amount of soldier to guard their own country, take US in Iraq for an example, US have at no time giving more than 15% of National Force to deploy in Iraq, and it keep rotating every single year. Russia is estimated have put in 30-35% of National Force (The entire Russian Military) in Ukraine, which mean you will have to bring in another 35% of national strength to replace the one you has been using. Which mean it only left 30% to defend the entire country. (35% of the force are redeploy to Ukraine where the 35% initial force is home Recovering and Reconstituting, which left 30% available force to defend Russia) That is a big no in term of Military Strategy....That is why Putin mentioned "Syrian and African" fighter because they are running out of men to fight this war. 

On the other hand, in case you have not realise, most Equipment Russian used in this fight is second tiered, like @LeGenD said the top gear stuff is not deployed, and one can only guess why? If it was me, I would say from the training to actual performance of the Russian Force in this fight, deploying those stuff would only make them Ukrainian.......So, either they know their troop is not up to the task, or the general simply lost faith with the command structure and use second tier equipment instead, the reason being, I don't want to be here in the first place, so I am not going to bring my number 1 toy with me. Not sure if that make sense to you,.



Hack-Hook said:


> for that you can use valuable metals and stones , there is no need to use foreign currency


lol how?

Bear in mind Russian bank is bar from settling all those item with money apart from oil and gas (Which will also be cut off if and when Europe get rid of Russian gas) 

There is a reason why we all use money instead of trading item with item, even in Iran. Can you care to guess why?


----------



## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> Even if they lose half of all tanks they threw on Ukraine, they will still have hundreds.
> 
> The biggest thing in South East for Ukraine is to prevent Russian forces from consolidating, and keeping their attrition rate high by delivering defeat in details, and using their anti-tank advantage.



9,000 more anti tank weapons entering Ukraine starting next week from the US. 

And the US has allocated an additional $2.5B in future weapons packages for Ukraine. 

We’re already seeing near operational paralysis from the Russians.


----------



## thetutle

Apollon said:


> SLAVA UKRAINE


SLAVA UKRAIN*I*

grammatically.

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> what's illegal about Russia selling oil for example to Benin ?
> 
> if its not done in Dollar or EU , then suing the bank will be illegal
> and you always can use alternate transaction system that bypass swift.


1.) We are not talking about selling Russian oil to Benin, we are talking about selling oil in place of Chinese item that have sanctioning technology in it. 

2.) Well, then I hope you can find extra 1.4 trillions USD worth of another currency outside US, GBP, Euro, YEN to settle the debt, why not put them all in RMB? That's the entire point of discussion.


----------



## thetutle

MajesticPug said:


> Unlikely. Unless NATO enters the war, I don't see how Ukraine can come out a victor. Therefore for a quick peace resolution so Ukraine people can return to live and work, the Comedian should sign the peace treaty that ensures Ukraine's neutrality in the fight between Russia and NATO.


Did you think USA would win in Afghanistan?


----------



## Vergennes

Russian generals are dying in Ukraine because they keep going near the front hoping to rescue the invasion, Western officials say​








Russian generals are dying in Ukraine because they keep going near the front hoping to rescue the invasion, Western officials say


Western officials said that "because things are going badly" in the invasion of Ukraine, top officers are taking risks that end in their deaths.




www.businessinsider.com

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## Hack-Hook

INDIAPOSITIVE said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504293795017682948


USA first recognize ICJ instead of having Hague invasion Law, then welcome any ruling by it


----------



## oberschlesier

Foinikas said:


> Well then,tell them to stop attracting and start talking about neutrality,buffer zones and peace.


Ech, you just don`t get this. It`s a combination of Soft and Hard Power. You just cannot stop it, it`s a cultural thing. That is why the Policy of Russia failed in 2004 and 2014 and now they are using force as their last Option. You would have to shut the border and create another iron curtain, which would help.... for a while as history shows.


----------



## thetutle

Wood said:


> Is there any known survey about public opinion in Moldova, for or against Russian invasion? Wonder if they have a lot of Russians who are pro Putin 🤔


Out of the Moldovans I know, 100% are against russia. 

I know 1 girl.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> 1.) We are not talking about selling Russian oil to Benin, we are talking about selling oil in place of Chinese item that have sanctioning technology in it.
> 
> 2.) Well, then I hope you can find extra 1.4 trillions USD worth of another currency outside US, GBP, Euro, YEN to settle the debt, why not put them all in RMB? That's the entire point of discussion.


I doubt Russia sell trillion $ of oil and gas each year.


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> then how dollar value is measured , I'm just curious, because every one knew since more than 50 years ago US reserves is a lot less than the amount of money they are printing


50 years ago, USD is still pegged to gold. Brenton Wood System was abandoned after mid 1970 when Nixon is President

today USD is backed by Foreign Currency and Treasury Bond exchange (T-Bill) 

There are roughly 10 trillions US Dollar in circulation in total, 2 Trillion in Currency and 8 Trillions in Line of Credit. While US have approximately 250 billons in foreign reserve and 27 trillions on T-Bill, with those, approximately 8 trillion were held by Foreign Country.



Hack-Hook said:


> a small problem with your master plan to made your wealth 10 time in one night .
> In Russia they give you ruble for your gold not dollar
> 
> 
> what extra cny ? Its part of china foreign trade . china previously paid Russia dollar for oil , now they pay yuan


I was talking about Russian ditching Rouble and everything is pegged with Gold. Otherwise my "Masterplan" will not work, which is the point I am talking about.

How do you pay with Yuan when you previously pay with USD, you need to somehow be able to come up the equivalent amount of Yuan in that USD, so tell me, where is that extra Yuan you will need to cover the new payment come from? It has to come from somewhere.

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## thetutle

Wood said:


> "*She was allegedly attacked by two Ukraine citizens, 37 and 26, from Iraq, Nigeria"*
> 
> This makes it even worse. I remember that German public opinion towards accepting refugees from Syria nosedived after the Cologne gang rape incident. A few people like this are responsible for immeasurable damage to the refugee community in Germany. Perhaps even so for all colored people in the country.


In america and other white countries where interracial relationships were illegal, any sexual relation with a non white man was illegal, not capable of being consensual and therefore rape. 

So this publicity over a criminal act by a non white person against pure white person is a hangover of that time. Western people will one day just have to accept that all races commit all crimes and give them equal publicity.

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> let just say , Russia sell to some chinese refinery or power planet or whoever own them in china and get Yuan and then use that yuan to pay to that chinese baker or carpenter


Then the questions is

1.) Where do the Chinese get the money, Chinese only have a fixed amount of Yuan in circulation, you cannot just print it out of thin air, to do that, you will need to spare some Yuan from other project or buy them from overseas and weaken the currency.

2.) What do you think Russia think they can used to build infrastructure to China? Again, Can I pay my building a loaf of bread to build a road? Or a pipeline? How about paying them in oil?


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> lol how?
> 
> Bear in mind Russian bank is bar from settling all those item with money apart from oil and gas (Which will also be cut off if and when Europe get rid of Russian gas)
> 
> There is a reason why we all use money instead of trading item with item, even in Iran. Can you care to guess why?


you don't sell gold and silver to back your money . central bank guaranty the value based on them . now if mr X from USA come to Russia central bank and say I had this amount of ruble and i won t gold instead of it , its his problem that break its respective government sanction , central bank of Russia have no obligation on obeying USA sanction on dealing valuable metals . they belong to Russia and they decide what to do with them not a guy in Washington


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> very simple , put the dollar you used to pay Russia to get the oil in your treasury and print yuan backed by that dollar and pay it to Russia


Then you will decrease the value Yuan is holding with USD (that's weakening Yuan position in case you don't know what you are talking about) then using that same money and forward it to Russia, that mean you are taking them away to circulation in China and hand it to Russia, now, what do you have in Russia that can back this deal? Oil? Sure, they can be used up, so what happened once the Chinese used up the oil the Russian paid? You need to pump more Yuan into Russia to get more oil, and by doing so, you need to sell your USD or Euro to get more RMB and weaken Yuan further against those currency. Would you think that is a good idea?? Unless China is planning on switching to USD, this is not a very good policy as this is going to be an endless cycle until either China cannot pay anymore or the West Lifted those sanction....

Dude, this is a very simply economic concept, you don't need a degree in Economy to understand that...


----------



## thetutle

Meengla said:


> Your heart is in the right place and I see you are speaking for so many different countries and ethnicities and in a logical way in your posts. Can't say that about many here.


He denies genocide that was committed against muslims. He supports a territorially expanded Serbia and Russia and Claims Turkish land as greek. And you think his heart os in the right place.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> There is a reason why we all use money instead of trading item with item, even in Iran. Can you care to guess why?


in Iran we barred from world banking system , can you guess have we managed with our central bank sanctioned and our banks cut from swift ?


----------



## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> you don't sell gold and silver to back your money . central bank guaranty the value based on them . now if mr X from USA come to Russia central bank and say I had this amount of ruble and i won t gold instead of it , its his problem that break its respective government sanction , central bank of Russia have no obligation on obeying USA sanction on dealing valuable metals . they belong to Russia and they decide what to do with them not a guy in Washington


You do know the way to "Guarantee" is for you to say "I can sell it at X amount of price" 

That is what we called "Asking Price......."

With this sanction, that X is 0 because you are not allow to trade Gold or Silver or anything......



Hack-Hook said:


> what part is hard Russia sell its oil in Yuan , and use Yuan to buy from chine , the transaction will be by china own money transferring system and will have nothing to do with swift . and then Russia use that money to get the things they need from china and other countries that accept yuan


The part where you get the initial Yuan to buy Russian Oil to begin with. Money DO NOT COME OUT OF NOWHERE. You either need to print them or swap it with something. There is a amount of circulation a currency can have in a country, going over that will lead to inflation, and you are talking about potential hundred of billions dollars over.........


----------



## Oldman1

Vergennes said:


> Russian generals are dying in Ukraine because they keep going near the front hoping to rescue the invasion, Western officials say​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian generals are dying in Ukraine because they keep going near the front hoping to rescue the invasion, Western officials say
> 
> 
> Western officials said that "because things are going badly" in the invasion of Ukraine, top officers are taking risks that end in their deaths.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.businessinsider.com


If they don't go to the front, they know who they will face if they go back.


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> @jhungary can you comment on my previous posts today?


Which post? The one I just comment on about What Russia would do?


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Where do the Chinese get the money, Chinese only have a fixed amount of Yuan in circulation, you cannot just print it out of thin air, to do that, you will need to spare some Yuan from other project or buy them from overseas and weaken the currency.


as I said use the dollar they previously used to buy Oil as a backing for printing new yuan


jhungary said:


> 2.) What do you think Russia think they can used to build infrastructure to China? Again, Can I pay my building a loaf of bread to build a road? Or a pipeline? How about paying them in oil?


the whole point is paying them yuan


----------



## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> First of all, if you do that, you still need to digest that "6 Trillions" Yuan you printed, and if it is like you said you are printing it every year, that mean you deflate your own currency by the same volume every year. Just because they are going to reinvest it back to China does not mean anything, the more currency floating in the free market the more it deflate your currency value. That's macroeconomic 101....6 times the currency inflation is a LOT in case you are wondering, and 1 trillions dollar added to circulation every year is also a lot. US as a whole, with massive Financial backing, only needed 2 trillions dollars in circulation, and you are talking about adding an entire US circulation in China every 2 years......
> 
> Secondly, you can't simply pick up all the Russian oil and gas. 1.) you had contract with other oil production country (Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Iran) So what is going to happen to all that contract? You get them as well or you just break them? Gas also is a problem, 2.) China don't use Natural Gas or LNG (not LPG) as much as the entire EU combine (China import around 50 billions cubic meters, EU as a whole imported around 420 billions cubic meters)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List of countries by natural gas imports - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So are you telling me China is just going to stomach it (Bear in mind you can't sell them) or you are saying China are to ditch all their renewable and switch to gas as a whole??
> 
> Finally, infrastructure is different. Russian oil is not the same as oil from Saudi or Qatar or even Iran, Russian oil is heavy oil, Saudi oil is Light Crude, you can technically refine Heavy into Light Crude, but are you saying you are going to build a few refinery just for this change? Because you can just use them Russian Crude like you do with Saudi and Iran Crude. Another issue is all the delivery network Russian currently have is toward EU, you will also need to expand the network to even accommodate slight increase. Are you going to pay for that as well??



There is no need to issue an additional 6 trillion CNY every year to support trade with Russia, but only once.

Russia will buy equivalent goods from China, and these CNY will return to China. In the second year, China only needs to re extract 6 trillion CNY from China to buy Russian resources. Of course, Russia may keep some CNY balance because of its trade surplus, but not too much, we can accept it. The Chinese govt will certainly negotiate with the Russian govt to agree on the CNY balance ceiling. China will not allow too many offshore CNY to enter the international market from Russia. We will exchange other physical US dollars&euros for excess CNY.

Secondly, using 6 trillion CNY to buy Russian resources will save us $1 trillion in foreign exchange every year, because we should have used these dollars to buy resources. So that means we printed 6 trillion CNY in exchange for $1 trillion. Of course, the US dollar cannot be used in China, so it cannot hedge the inflation caused by RMB 6 trillion.

Moreover, China already has too many foreign exchange reserves, and an additional $1 trillion a year will lead to a large loss of China's interest rates. Therefore, the Chinese govt will invest the excess US $1 trillion in foreign exchange into B&R projects. Congratulations, both Hungary and Pakistan are the investment priorities in the B&R Project, and you will benefit from it.

As you said, if China needs to print an additional 6 trillion CNY every year, it is really unacceptable to us. But if it is printed only once, it will have little impact on China's inflation. In 2021, China's trade surplus with the United States brought us $1.1 trillion in additional foreign exchange. In order to exchange these balances, the Chinese government issued an additional 7 trillion CNY. This has not had any impact on our inflation, because China has a serious overcapacity, and adding trillions of dollars of orders will not bring serious inflation. Moreover, we will use foreign exchange to buy bulk materials from the international market to export inflation to the world.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Then you will decrease the value Yuan is holding with USD (that's weakening Yuan position in case you don't know what you are talking about) then using that same money and forward it to Russia, that mean you are taking them away to circulation in China and hand it to Russia, now, what do you have in Russia that can back this deal? Oil? Sure, they can be used up, so what happened once the Chinese used up the oil the Russian paid? You need to pump more Yuan into Russia to get more oil, and by doing so, you need to sell your USD or Euro to get more RMB and weaken Yuan further against those currency. Would you think that is a good idea?? Unless China is planning on switching to USD, this is not a very good policy as this is going to be an endless cycle until either China cannot pay anymore or the West Lifted those sanction....


yuan only get weakened if there is no foreign currency or valuable metal to back it
in this case USA dollar is used for supporting the value , or more exactly the gold held in fort Knox . now if USA want to say I default on those dollar then its something else



jhungary said:


> Yuan into Russia to get more oil, and by doing so, you need to sell your USD or Euro to get more RMB and weaken Yuan further against those currency.


you previously also sold your dollar to get the oil. now the dollar remain in your central bank


----------



## Oldman1

Paul2 said:


> By stopping losses. They without a doubt know how much they lose in botched offensives.
> 
> They still have tons of armour, SAMs, and artillery to hold where they are.
> 
> Even if you completely remove Russian irregular forces like its national guard, and paramilitaries, Russian regular forces will still be big enough.


They are not going to stop the losses since the Ukrainians will want them out of the country. They can hit them like they are doing now with artillery and rockets. And now you have loitering munitions. Its like Azerbaijan taking on Armenia and wiping their military forces with impunity. Bomb Russian artillery, tanks, SAMs from 40k or more distance with no way to hit back or see. If only Israel provided those same munitions as well, but the U.S. will have to step in to provide it. Maybe Turkey provide some since they made their own.















The longest range Israel has is 250km.

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> can you tell me what's the rating has to do with ability to provide oil .
> a question what's the rating of Iran by those credit agency ? do you have doubt if anybody want to buy oil from us we can provide it to them in short notice ?


This is NOT the same with Iran Sanction.......

You cannot compare Iran sanction to Russian sanction. Yes, you were taken out of SWIFT (actually you are back in now) and Central Bank was sanction. But US and EU never block you from exchanging your money with anyone, that's why your currency is quite steady since 2004. But the problem is Russia is now blocked from raising fund because the link to 90% of world reserve currency is blocked off, this *HAS NOT* been done to Iran, you are free to trade with anyone with oil even under sanction. 

The problem Russia is facing is not trade, but its currency. Their currency lost its entire value, which mean they may as well as to use toilet paper to settle foreign debt (that is why Russian threaten to repay the 133 millions bond interest payment in Rouble, instead of USD they were asking) Currency is the building block of any economy. Iran included, and that is what Russia cannot use. 

Now sure, China can loan Iran money for 50 or 100 billions at a time, Iranian Rial has not dropped in value greater than 0.00001 US Cents (may have left a 0 somewhere) since 2004. Roble dropped 30% of its value in 21 days. That's is the different. This is not about the trade itself, this is about HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PAY FOR IT.


----------



## thetutle

oberschlesier said:


> Several Polish men are arrested for specifically providing "shelter" to young women and children with pretty bad intentions.
> 
> source?


Dont you now, polish police arrest people who have bed intentions.


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> You do know the way to "Guarantee" is for you to say "I can sell it at X amount of price"
> 
> That is what we called "Asking Price......."
> 
> With this sanction, that X is 0 because you are not allow to trade Gold or Silver or anything......


that x is not zero , Russia still can sell it at x price , you just go to Russia central bank and ask for your foreign currency or gold , they pay you . they are not bound by USA and EU internal laws



jhungary said:


> The part where you get the initial Yuan to buy Russian Oil to begin with. Money DO NOT COME OUT OF NOWHERE. You either need to print them or swap it with something. There is a amount of circulation a currency can have in a country, going over that will lead to inflation, and you are talking about potential hundred of billions dollars over.........


as I said you print them and you use the dollar you used to pay for oil as a guaranty of your printed money so your currency wont devalue


----------



## thetutle

Ich said:


> Sure, there are always some perverted idiots. But if you look into the german criminal statistics, 2/3 of all killings and rapings in germany were done by refugees or done by migration background. Poland does not have this. And that is cause of Poland do not let in refugees from Africa or greater middle east. Poland is doing right at that point.


Can you expand on that? What are people of immigrant backgrounds? What about the germans whose parent for grandparents come from sudatenland or Silesia? are they of immigrant backgrounds? 

Over what period of time? Do you count murders in Germany over the last say 100 years? or just one year? 

Did Germany have prisons before mass migration to Germany started? Why?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504612301915230219

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> yuan only get weakened if there is no foreign currency or valuable metal to back it
> in this case USA dollar is used for supporting the value , or more exactly the gold held in fort Knox . now if USA want to say I default on those dollar then its something else
> 
> 
> you previously also sold your dollar to get the oil. now the dollar remain in your central bank


The moment you use precious metal to back your currency is the moment you are weakening it.......

There are only certain amount of Precious metal a country is holding, which mean if you back it with precious metal, you are limiting the value within those physical limit (ie the actual metal you are hold) 

So, how are you going to issue debt? I mean are you issuing an IOU on the metal you are not holding? Then what guarantee that loan?

And then China does not print USD, which mean the only way they can get USD is either by stop trading it, which will hurt their currency or buy it from overseas, which will hurt their currency. China does not have an unlimited USD supplies...... 



Hack-Hook said:


> as I said use the dollar they previously used to buy Oil as a backing for printing new yuan
> 
> the whole point is paying them yuan



Then tell me where all the USD goes? Going to your reserve bank in lieu of the RMB you use on Russia? Or spending it somewhere else? If it is the first one, then you are undermining your own currency, because you are hollowing out your own currency within your own central bank. If it is the latter, then there are no change of the equation, you are just exchanging USD to other currency such as Euro. You still have to pay Russia with Yuan for their oil.


----------



## Wood

Nice infield reporting. Shows how Russian tanks are stopped moving forward

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Smerch artillery shooting in Kharkiv region


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504609565626843145


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> that x is not zero , Russia still can sell it at x price , you just go to Russia central bank and ask for your foreign currency or gold , they pay you . they are not bound by USA and EU internal laws


lol, you do know Russia only have 2300 tons of gold in their reserve bank? 

That would last them maybe a month? (1 tons of gold worth 61 millions. a quick calculation would tell you it is 140 billions dollars) Seeing that the Entire Russian GDP is 1.4 trillions dollars a year.

Then what next? Mine more? How many more can you mine and at the mean time, how are you going to pay for the miner? 


Hack-Hook said:


> as I said you print them and you use the dollar you used to pay for oil as a guaranty of your printed money so your currency wont devalue


And as I said China DO NOT HAVE UNLIMITED SUPPLIES of USD, you can use it to stabilise Yuan up to a point, the same with Russia and its gold, what happened if you ran out of USD or Yuan or both?



MH.Yang said:


> There is no need to issue an additional 6 trillion CNY every year to support trade with Russia, but only once.
> 
> Russia will buy equivalent goods from China, and these CNY will return to China. In the second year, China only needs to re extract 6 trillion CNY from China to buy Russian resources. Of course, Russia may keep some CNY balance because of its trade surplus, but not too much, we can accept it. The Chinese govt will certainly negotiate with the Russian govt to agree on the CNY balance ceiling. China will not allow too many offshore CNY to enter the international market from Russia. We will exchange other physical US dollars&euros for excess CNY.
> 
> Secondly, using 6 trillion CNY to buy Russian resources will save us $1 trillion in foreign exchange every year, because we should have used these dollars to buy resources. So that means we printed 6 trillion CNY in exchange for $1 trillion. Of course, the US dollar cannot be used in China, so it cannot hedge the inflation caused by RMB 6 trillion.
> 
> Moreover, China already has too many foreign exchange reserves, and an additional $1 trillion a year will lead to a large loss of China's interest rates. Therefore, the Chinese govt will invest the excess US $1 trillion in foreign exchange into B&R projects. Congratulations, both Hungary and Pakistan are the investment priorities in the B&R Project, and you will benefit from it.
> 
> As you said, if China needs to print an additional 6 trillion CNY every year, it is really unacceptable to us. But if it is printed only once, it will have little impact on China's inflation. In 2021, China's trade surplus with the United States brought us $1.1 trillion in additional foreign exchange. In order to exchange these balances, the Chinese government issued an additional 7 trillion CNY. This has not had any impact on our inflation, because China has a serious overcapacity, and adding trillions of dollars of orders will not bring serious inflation. Moreover, we will use foreign exchange to buy bulk materials from the international market to export inflation to the world.


You plan is all good except 2 things.

1.) an injection of 6 trillions Yuan will most likely inflate Yuan in an unacceptable range. 
2.) Not using USD will limit your option to trade over other oversea market.

As I said many time before, of course you can do that. It's your money and your monetary policy. The question is, would Chinese government did all that to save Russia?

And I don't really want to comment on your "foreign reserve policy" other than saying this is unsustainable. And as I said to you before, it's a bit of wishful thinking.


----------



## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> lol, you do know Russia only have 2300 tons of gold in their reserve bank?
> 
> That would last them maybe a month? (1 tons of gold worth 61 millions. a quick calculation would tell you it is 140 billions dollars) Seeing that the Entire Russian GDP is 1.4 trillions dollars a year.
> 
> Then what next? Mine more? How many more can you mine and at the mean time, how are you going to pay for the miner?
> 
> And as I said China DO NOT HAVE UNLIMITED SUPPLIES of USD, you can use it to stabilise Yuan up to a point, the same with Russia and its gold, what happened if you ran out of USD or Yuan or both?



Sir, there are not so many offshore CNY in the world that can consume all China's foreign exchange reserves. 

You may have seriously underestimated the amount of foreign exchange in China and seriously overestimated the number of offshore CNY.


----------



## thetutle

Tai Hai Chen said:


> A win for Russia is a win for China.
> 
> 1. Russia is a puppet / proxy country of China.
> 
> 2. Russia is a neighbor of China.
> 
> 3. Domination of Ukraine enables China to connect to western Europe via the One Road program, connecting the western shores of The Old World with the eastern shores of The Old World.


The west will not let china dominate and enslave a European nation, even by proxy.

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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> % You cannot compare Iran sanction to Russian sanction. Yes, you were taken out of SWIFT (actually you are back in now) and Central Bank was sanction. But US and EU never block you from exchanging your money with anyone, that's why your currency is quite steady since 2004. But the problem is Russia is now blocked from raising fund because the link to 90% of world reserve currency is blocked off, this *HAS NOT* been done to Iran, you are free to trade with anyone with oil even under sanction.


we were not allowed swift , we were not allowed trade in valuable metal , our oil industry were sanctioned , we were not allowed to trade in Dollar . 
every company wanted to trade with us would have been sanctioned if it get known . i wonder if you mean another iran . we were not even allowed to loan money for fighting Corona virus while according to all laws we were entitled to the loan because we didn't ever used our right to borrow money .
we learned to live with sanction , we used transaction systems which were used since thousand of years ago , we also used barter system , ......


jhungary said:


> The problem Russia is facing is not trade, but its currency. Their currency lost its entire value, which mean they may as well as to use toilet paper to settle foreign debt (that is why Russian threaten to repay the 133 millions bond interest payment in Rouble, instead of USD they were asking) Currency is the building block of any economy. Iran included, and that is what Russia cannot use.


when sanction put on Iran , iran currency lost 90% of its value . so nothing new there . the only difference is we don have that much of foreign debt .


jhungary said:


> Now sure, China can loan Iran money for 50 or 100 billions at a time, Iranian Rial has not dropped in value greater than 0.00001 US Cents (may have left a 0 somewhere) since 2004. Roble dropped 30% of its value in 21 days. That's is the different. This is not about the trade itself, this is about HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PAY FOR IT.


Iranian rial lost 90 % of its value in 2004-2005 and again 30-40% in 2018-2019 . but the economy is not only foreign trade for all countries ,for some yes but for countries like Iran foreign trade is not even 10% of our economy , the rest is based on what we do inside our country ,and that made some country more resilient to sanction , and I believe Russia also have a big bunch of economy based on their country not foreign trade , that's why they survived the fall of USSR and the years after it and that's why I believe they survive this time



jhungary said:


> And then China does not print USD, which mean the only way they can get USD is either by stop trading it, which will hurt their currency or buy it from overseas, which will hurt their currency. China does not have an unlimited USD supplies......


they stop trading it in form of not using it to pay for oil .

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## Wood

thetutle said:


> The west will not let china dominate and enslave a European nation, even by proxy.


The way America has funded Ukraine, I'm sure they will keep the fight going for a while at the least. Biden will fight an election with this


----------



## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Then tell me where all the USD goes? Going to your reserve bank in lieu of the RMB you use on Russia? Or spending it somewhere else? If it is the first one, then you are undermining your own currency, because you are hollowing out your own currency within your own central bank. If it is the latter, then there are no change of the equation, you are just exchanging USD to other currency such as Euro. You still have to pay Russia with Yuan for their oil.


the dollar go in other investment.to bring more money back 
a question what other countries do when they use foreign currencies to back their money ?
by the way you must consider one small fact . printing money is not inherently bad , it become bad when you print money but you cant spend it



jhungary said:


> lol, you do know Russia only have 2300 tons of gold in their reserve bank?
> 
> That would last them maybe a month? (1 tons of gold worth 61 millions. a quick calculation would tell you it is 140 billions dollars) Seeing that the Entire Russian GDP is 1.4 trillions dollars a year.
> 
> Then what next? Mine more? How many more can you mine and at the mean time, how are you going to pay for the miner?


in 2007 - 2008 we had 50 billion dollar in reserve ,our economy was more than 500 Billion , how we survived ?

very simple all economy is not foreign trade , you must ask yourself how much of that 1.4trilion Dollar is generated inside Russia and how much that part which is generated inside Russia will be affected by sanctions .


----------



## thetutle

Hack-Hook said:


> what part is hard Russia sell its oil in Yuan , and use Yuan to buy from chine , the transaction will be by china own money transferring system and will have nothing to do with swift . and then Russia use that money to get the things they need from china and other countries that accept yuan


Yes, this is too complicated for some people to understand.


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## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> lol, you do know Russia only have 2300 tons of gold in their reserve bank?
> 
> That would last them maybe a month? (1 tons of gold worth 61 millions. a quick calculation would tell you it is 140 billions dollars) Seeing that the Entire Russian GDP is 1.4 trillions dollars a year.
> 
> Then what next? Mine more? How many more can you mine and at the mean time, how are you going to pay for the miner?
> 
> And as I said China DO NOT HAVE UNLIMITED SUPPLIES of USD, you can use it to stabilise Yuan up to a point, the same with Russia and its gold, what happened if you ran out of USD or Yuan or both?
> 
> 
> You plan is all good except 2 things.
> 
> 1.) an injection of 6 trillions Yuan will most likely inflate Yuan in an unacceptable range.
> 2.) Not using USD will limit your option to trade over other oversea market.
> 
> As I said many time before, of course you can do that. It's your money and your monetary policy. The question is, would Chinese government did all that to save Russia?
> 
> And I don't really want to comment on your "foreign reserve policy" other than saying this is unsustainable. And as I said to you before, it's a bit of wishful thinking.


Yes, CNY is appreciating abnormally. 

First, the reason for the appreciation is that the Ukrainian war led to the flight of European capital to China, and a large number of Europeans used the euro to buy CNY. That has nothing to do with the use of CNY settlement in Russian trade. 

Second, such abnormal appreciation will not last long. If necessary, the Chinese govt will intervene in the exchange rate. And raising interest rates in USA will take away a lot of hot money. 

Third, this level of appreciation will not affect China's exports. Trump's high tariffs cannot defeat China's export trade. How much impact can these appreciation bring?


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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> And as I said China DO NOT HAVE UNLIMITED SUPPLIES of USD, you can use it to stabilise Yuan up to a point, the same with Russia and its gold, what happened if you ran out of USD or Yuan or both?


it only happen if china ran out of dollar to buy oil. but you think china had to print money each year , while its not the case , Russia sell oil to china and get yuan , but they don't do it to hoard yuan they want to use it in trades , the majority of it will return to china , and china had to print a small amount of money each year to compensate for it (well if they don't have enough reserve money on their hand to be able to compensate for it without having to issue new money)


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> The west will not let china dominate and enslave a European nation, even by proxy.



The west has little say, especially since the US don't even have a foothold in The Old World. Europeans would benefit by having One Road connected to China.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504448016186580992

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## MajesticPug

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504580157079580676
> lmao


Just fake allegation just like the one Russians will use chemical weapons when the US hands were caught in the bio-weapon cookie jar.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504583312702124041
Putin is apparently very unpopular in Moscow. The people in the city know to use VPN

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Malka artillery shooting in Kharkiv area


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504610334555922433


----------



## MH.Yang

Hack-Hook said:


> the dollar go in other investment.to bring more money back
> a question what other countries do when they use foreign currencies to back their money ?
> by the way you must consider one small fact . printing money is not inherently bad , it become bad when you print money but you cant spend it
> 
> 
> in 2007 - 2008 we had 50 billion dollar in reserve ,our economy was more than 500 Billion , how we survived ?
> 
> very simple all economy is not foreign trade , you must ask yourself how much of that 1.4trilion Dollar is generated inside Russia and how much that part which is generated inside Russia will be affected by sanctions .


Jhungary means that China's foreign exchange reserves can only ensure that the exchange rate of CNY does not depreciate, but can not ensure that CNY does not depreciate at home, that is, inflation, because the US dollar cannot circulate in China. 
He meant that if CNY appreciated in the international market and depreciated in the domestic market, it would be unacceptable to the Chinese government.

This view is correct. But he seriously underestimated China's manufacturing capacity, and 6 trillion CNY could not bring inflation.


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> How do you pay with Yuan when you previously pay with USD, you need to somehow be able to come up the equivalent amount of Yuan in that USD, so tell me, where is that extra Yuan you will need to cover the new payment come from? It has to come from somewhere.


No, No,no, No, Just no. It can be paid with Yuan. Its very very simple


----------



## MH.Yang

Tai Hai Chen said:


> The west has little say, especially since the US don't even have a foothold in The Old World. Europeans would benefit by having One Road connected to China.


No country can make such a great country as Russia a puppet. I thank you for overestimating China, but China can't. 
China and Russia are equal allies. We are all P5 countries. We are friends at the same level.

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Then you will decrease the value Yuan is holding with USD (that's weakening Yuan position in case you don't know what you are talking about) then using that same money and forward it to Russia, that mean you are taking them away to circulation in China and hand it to Russia, now, what do you have in Russia that can back this deal? Oil?


You dont need to back the deal, Russia gets Yuan and uses it to buy Chinese goods the same day. You are twisting your self up in knots with this idea that there must be some backing or extra printing of money or extra generating of yuan. China already had that money with which to buy oil.

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## MajesticPug

thetutle said:


> Did you think USA would win in Afghanistan?



Afghanistan's geographical features are different than Ukraine's, in case you didn't know. The geo-political dynamics are different today than 40 years ago. You're free to believe in what you want to believe.

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> You do know the way to "Guarantee" is for you to say "I can sell it at X amount of price"
> 
> That is what we called "Asking Price......."
> 
> With this sanction, that X is 0 because you are not allow to trade Gold or Silver or anything......
> 
> 
> The part where you get the initial Yuan to buy Russian Oil to begin with. Money DO NOT COME OUT OF NOWHERE. You either need to print them or swap it with something.


You fundamentally misunderstand the banking system I think. Money does come out of nowhere, and it does not need to be printed.


----------



## Elvin

Tai Hai Chen said:


> A win for Russia is a win for China.
> 
> 1. Russia is a puppet / proxy country of China.
> 
> 2. Russia is a neighbor of China.
> 
> 3. Domination of Ukraine enables China to connect to western Europe via the One Road program, connecting the western shores of The Old World with the eastern shores of The Old World.



Please elaborate, how is Russia a puppet of China?


----------



## Meengla

thetutle said:


> He denies genocide that was committed against muslims. He supports a territorially expanded Serbia and Russia and Claims Turkish land as greek. And you think his heart os in the right place.



Maybe I was a little too generous. I thought he was caring for the Russian speaking people in Ukraine and for the Iraqis who got illegally attacked.
We are all a mixed bag though.


----------



## Hack-Hook

MH.Yang said:


> Jhungary means that China's foreign exchange reserves can only ensure that the exchange rate of CNY does not depreciate, but can not ensure that CNY does not depreciate at home, that is, inflation, because the US dollar cannot circulate in China.
> He meant that if CNY appreciated in the international market and depreciated in the domestic market, it would be unacceptable to the Chinese government.
> 
> This view is correct. But he seriously underestimated China's manufacturing capacity, and 6 trillion CNY could not bring inflation.


printing money only result in inflation only if you cant use it . here the money is being used in trades


----------



## MH.Yang

Hack-Hook said:


> printing money only result in inflation only if you cant use it . here the money is being used in trades


Russians will use these to buy goods from China, so the money will enter China's domestic market. However, the China's manufacturing capacity is very strong, and only 6 trillion CNY can not bring inflation.

The most important reason is that this additional 6 trillion CNY will only appear in the first transaction. If it is an annual issuance of 6 trillion CNY, the Chinese govt really can't accept it.


----------



## thetutle

Meengla said:


> Maybe I was a little too generous. I thought he was caring for the Russian speaking people in Ukraine and for the Iraqis who got illegally attacked.
> We are all a mixed bag though.


Native Russian speaking people of Ukraine are demanding more weapons and a no fly zone, One of them asked the US senate to provide it. His name was Zelinski.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

kingQamaR said:


> There is a possibility that Russia is changing tactic as a result of Western arms support, particularly anti tank weapons which makes tanks and vehicles particularly vulnerable in urban areas. This will force Russia to use missiles cruise missiles and aerial bombing which inevitably causes more destruction and collateral deaths of civilians.. Russia will not and cannot stop as it would be intolerable for Russia to be seen as being defeated by Ukraine whilst they have a full arsenal of weapons that could completely destroy Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> You can conscript to defend a country but it much harder to take a country using them. And stupid Russians have just proven it to be the case




First, Russia is focusing on Eastern and Southern Ukraine, and they're achieving those objectives. Western media doesn't show the true nature of the war. The noose is tightening up on the Ukrainian forces in the South and the East of the country.

Second, Russia has no interest in Western Ukraine other than making sure NATO doesn't station their forces there, and the Ukrainian govt agrees to limits of its military. Through the current encirclement of Kiev, Russia seems to be getting there.

Third, while Western powers are using financial sanctions to punish Russia, the Russians are using their hydrocarbon and other resources to put pressure on EU and others who rely on these commodities. In the end, the pain is felt on all sides.

Financially, for the first time in a century and a half, Russia led by Putin achieved something no one else ever successfully tried: *The rejection of the US Dollar*. While China also formed the CISP in order to bypass the Western-backed SWIFT banking system, it is the sheer determination of Vladimir Putin who has put his neck out there when it comes to rejecting the US dollar.

Many of the people are focusing on the tactical battles in Ukraine, but from a Western perspective, the *strategic objective* of this war is about preserving the US Dollar as the fiat money in all trade. Russia, China, and Iran have decided to bypass that arrangement. Today, if a country is sanctioned by the West, such country can turn to CISP and SPFS financial systems. Countries today can demand all trade and finance transactions be conducted in their currencies and the Yuan or Ruble based on Gold and Silver. Or if the transaction doesn't involve China or Russia, they can use their own currencies and use Gold as a standard to determine the exchange ratio. *This is the beginning of the end of the Western hegemony. *

This is also a fulfillment of an Islamic prophecy that all trade and financial transactions will in the end be carried out based on Gold and Silver. Bye-bye to the paper-based fraudulent money that Paix Judaica was using to abuse the rest of the world. But make no mistake about it: We're heading to turbulent waters and major upheavals are ahead of us. The empire of the Antichrist will not go down easily.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Tamerlane said:


> I'm 90% sure that Zelensky is hiding in Poland. Some news reports said that he's in the US embassy there.
> 
> It's a joke to imagine that leaders of other countries have been travelling to Kiev, which is surrounded by Russian forces, to see Zelensky. Who are they kidding?
> 
> *Ukraine war: European leaders risk train ride to meet Zelensky*
> 
> The prime ministers of Poland, Slovenia and the Czech Republic met Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday evening as a curfew began in Kyiv.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine war: European leaders risk train ride to meet Zelensky
> 
> 
> After a perilous train journey from Poland to Kyiv, European leaders tell Ukraine "you're not alone".
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com



Let's see. Russian aircraft and cruise missile are vaporizing military bases right on the Polish border, based on first hand foreign accounts. Journalists are getting sniped or shelled right across the border.

But these very super democratic leaders are gonna take the risk to travel to Kiev across 500+ km of war zone.

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## thetutle

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504419779947466764


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504419779947466764

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## FairAndUnbiased

Paul2 said:


> The obvious question is what they want to do now.
> 
> Ukrainians are now very successful with their defence anchored around large cities. Russian attrition rates against this strategy are scaring Russians from further moves.
> 
> All their action for the last week was trying to take smaller, less defended towns.
> 
> Will Ukrainians risk compromising their very good defensive stance by repositioning troops for the offensive, while knowing that their numbers, and own offensive firepower aren't enough?
> 
> @jhungary



Waiting for Grand Ukrainian Empire to expand their borders to China.



Paul2 said:


> The heaviest fighting is happening now in the South Eastern direction, where Russians have direct supply lines. Russians spread their forces through small towns, but they still have a local numerical advantage, and firepower due to supplies from Russia.
> 
> This is where Russia also has the most heavy presence of trained regular forces.
> 
> There are some indications now of Russians pulling forces from other directions to southeast, because they probably want this to be what they will walk away after this war.
> 
> To move forward, Ukraine will definitely need much more heavier firepower to break open more solidly defended, and entrenched Russian formations in South East.



Steiner's counteroffensive will be the key.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> This is the beginning of the end of the Western hegemony.



The west never had hegemony. Canada, Australia, New Zealand, America do not have a foothold in The Old World. You cannot dominate the world without a foothold in The Old World.


----------



## Meengla

thetutle said:


> Native Russian speaking people of Ukraine are demanding more weapons and a no fly zone, One of them asked the US senate to provide it. His name was Zelinski.


For every Zellensky there are probably 1000 ethnic Russians in Ukraine who would rather be part of Russia as of now--until they realize that Russia is the Sick Man of Europe. As I keep saying here--time will have this all settled. There was no need for a war. American Neocons have pushed another war in the world. And European suckers are, if this goes out of hand, will suffer great misery again...


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504482684147359753

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## gambit

Foinikas said:


> That USA has invaded and intervened in so many countries?


If you want countries to reject association with US, directly or indirectly, you have to let countries know how horrible is the US, from how many countries the US invaded to no universal healthcare to guns and so on.

Here is the list of current NATO members...









What is NATO?


An introduction to NATO that provides basic information on what NATO is, member countries, the Alliance's key activities and how it functions. NATO's general evolution is shown in video and links to more in-depth information are provided throughout.




www.nato.int





If we look at the year of entries, it begs the question of why these *NEWER* countries joined NATO given how horrible is the US, the leader of the alliance. So often, we get a list of countries that the US invaded as to why no one should deal with US. So am asking you that have you campaigned to inform countries all over the world as to how many countries the US invaded?


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504614394176720897

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## FairAndUnbiased

khansaheeb said:


> https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-01-22/index.html
> 
> 
> 
> 12 min ago
> Ukraine's Chief Rabbi condemns violence, says 3 missiles have hit a sacred memorial in Kyiv​From CNN's Tim Lister in Kyiv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emergency crews respond to the scene of an airstrike near Kyiv's TV tower on March 1. The nearby Babyn Yar Holocaust memorial site was also hit during the attack. (Wolfgang Schwan/Anadolu Agency/Getty Images)
> 
> Moshe Reuven Azman, the Chief Rabbi of Ukraine, has condemned the missile attack close to the Babyn Yar memorial in Kyiv, saying three missiles hit the area.
> "War crimes are taking place here," he said in a video statement on his Facebook page.
> "The Russian army, which fought the fascists in 1941, is bombing the civilians of Kyiv, Kharkiv, Odessa. Just now the Babyn Yar was shelled. Three missiles hit the place."
> "Babyn Yar - this is symbolic. Babyn Yar is a place where 200,000 innocent elderly, women and kids lie," he added.
> Between 1941 and 1943, the Nazis shot tens of thousands of people at Babyn Yar, including almost the entire Jewish population of Kyiv, according to the memorial's official website.
> "I’m constantly receiving calls from Jews, not just Jews, Ukrainians and Russians from all over Kyiv asking for help," the Rabbi said.
> "They need humanitarian aid. Every day I’m trying to help. The elderly [are] calling saying they don’t have the necessary medicines, mothers [are] calling saying they don’t have food for kids, they are suffering from the shelling."
> Azman's Facebook video continued with the Rabbi pledging to no longer keep quiet amid the violence.
> "I’ve kept silent for a long time, I will not anymore. I address you, dear Russians, dear Jews, everybody who’s not indifferent: those, who silently agree with what’s happening or those who stay indifferent - are complicit in this military crime. crime against humanity. I’m only saying what I see. I’m not afraid to die. I could never imagine in my worst nightmare that I could die under Russian shelling."


Yeah about that...









סיירתי באתר ההנצחה בבאבי יאר. שום דבר לא נפגע שם אתמול


האוקראינים דיווחו כי אתר ההנצחה לעשרות אלפי הנרצחים בשואה ניזוק על ידי הרוסים, אבל אחרי סיור ברגל אני יכול לומר - זה לא תואם את המציאות. הפגיעה הקרובה ביותר לבאבי יאר הייתה במגדל התקשורת, וגם הוא עצמו לא ניזוק - פרט לפגיעות קטנות של רסיסים. רון בן ישי מדווח מקייב




www-ynet-co-il.translate.goog

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## Wood

Encirclement of Kiev in 1941 by Germany is said to be the largest in history. Not sure if this is true, but seems like Russians have a lot of work


----------



## Menthol

RescueRanger said:


> I'm on a telegram group of foreign volunteers and they all complain of the same mistreatment, especially Americans in recent days as they claim they have been getting harassed - I shared the news story about the Brit who went there and never got any weapons and returned it was essentially a suicide mission going up against tanks with your bare fists.
> 
> This is a warning for all those combat chasers who don't understand the realities of war or operating in a crisis/disaster zone which is what Ukraine is. You don't have supply lines, you can't speak the language, many don't have local currency, many don't even has basic gear you would take on deployment.
> 
> In post #19251 on this thread I explained this in great detail - I will share that post here too:
> 
> A few things to digest here really since we are on the subject:
> 
> 1. Ukraine should focus on arming and. Developing it’s national volunteers into reserves and whilst they lack any real resemblance of a military that’s not to say you can’t branch people out based on previous life skills ie mechanics, electricians and plumbers (make good sappers), drivers, anyone with comms experience slap them on radios and BTS maintainance - Russians have been taking our repeater towers and BTS and shot themselves in the foot since they are using short range Moto’s and Baofengs.
> 
> 2. Foreign volunteers should only be accepted if they are ex military with add on skills such as sappers, medics, SF types - the rest of the Call of Duty types should be thanked and advised to go back home( and I’ll explain why I feel this way).
> 
> I’ve already made my position on foreign fighters very clear in a previous post but I strongly feel that the mixed messages from politicians in the west and the soft cuddly messages from the Ukrainians are misleading.
> 
> Here is why, judging by some of the videos of volunteers on telegram and elsewhere there are two categories of volunteers joining the Ukrainian foreign legion:
> 
> 1. Ex military with plenty of experience and seasoned vets
> 
> 2. Complete greenhorns who don’t have a clue what they are doing.
> 
> Whilst I have explained my concern for combat chasers and disgruntled vets in my previous post and the need to risk manage them post their return - for now I am more concerned about those who’s only introduction to combat are movies and video games.
> 
> *To those people who fall into the second category I would like to say the following:
> 
> Firstly ask yourself why you are going? Is it for the right reasons?
> 
> Pre travel:*
> 
> Research where you are going: medical issues there and other associated risks such as the fact that Ukraine is dealing with Multiple Drug Resistant Tuberculosis.
> Have you had your teeth checked (dentists won’t be available)
> Checked you have all your shots (heb b etc)
> Had a full once over from a doctor to ensure you are fit and well and your sciatica or asthma isn’t going to flare up in the middle of nowhere.
> *Documents:*
> 
> have you got all your docs (Poland requires all non Schengen country travellers to have a passport no older than 10 years with a minimum of 6 months validity remaining from the point of entry to the day of your return)
> Have you applied for the correct visa(s) - polish visas are incredibly confusing (*I should know I’ve been there).*
> Flights: Open return/one way or flex?
> Flash money??
> PCR tests = Poland still needs them.
> Are you vaccinated - if you’re not fully vaccinated (2 shots and a booster) you will be refused entry or required to undergo a 10 day quarantine at your own expense?
> Have you made a will ( yes because there is a high chance you will die)
> Have you taken photographs of your face and profile and any tattoos and shared these wit your family or trusted contact
> Have you discussed proof of life safe word with trusted contact or family member back home
> Have you kept your medical history and immunisation record with you on a usb/phone/paper?
> Have you considered a big out plan and how you will extract yourself should things go wrong (and they will).
> Insurance? People ignore this.
> Research where you are going- route and mode of transport- have a travel plan of some sort
> Write down your blood type and any allergies on the rear of your helmet or on your body armour
> *Equipment:
> 
> Comms:* do you have a phone - did you wipe it or get a burner phone
> 
> Will your sim work in that part of the world?
> Satcoms or SPOT terminal? do you have or can you afford a sat phone or similar terminal?
> Radios: Ukrainians are asking volunteers to bring their own FRS or UHF radio - can you travel from your country of origin with one and so you know how to use it?
> *PPE & Clothing:*
> 
> The Ukrainians have expressly stressed that all foreign volunteers are to bring their own PPE (helmet- body armour/ PC etc) so with that in mind:
> Do you have the right Clothing for inclement weather including decent thermal layers ?
> How about Weather resistant outers?
> High quality boots: did you break them in?
> Socks & underwear (never leave for a remote place with most enough socks and underwear)
> ear muffs
> Cover/lid (hat) a good quality thinsulate beanie hat is a minimum.
> Stockings (yes this works)
> Woollen or insulated gloves
> Neoprene or shooting gloves
> *PPE:*
> 
> Once again can you afford body armour - do you know what level of protection you need or the cut of the inserts/plates? I’ve seen a lot of folks on Twitter with steel plate in their carriers - if volunteers are going out and they try to save money do they know the difference between anti spall armour and steel plates that can spall?
> Image attached:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Helmets: do you go for a ASB style helmet to protect your noggin from bumps or are you going to invest in a ballistic helmet?
> 
> *Transport: does your country permit the carriage of such equipment in hold luggage?
> 
> 
> Eye and Ear Protection: this is basic stuff but again do you have it?
> Leather gloves / riggers gloves - at least 2 pairs
> Respirators: do you carry one or do you not? Do you know how to use it and take care of it?
> If not the minimum should be a few n95 and partical masks in case you need to help in search and rescue after an explosion or building collapse - also useful when helping in human remain retrieval.
> *Food:*
> 
> if all you are taking with your is that plate carrier and helmet from eBay and a positive smile you are in for a rude awakening.
> 
> These people are at war and food & water among other things will be scarce - the last thing they need is some well intentioned lemon to turn up and become another mouth to feed - be self sufficient.
> 
> With that in mind it is important to remember the survival rules of threes:
> 
> 3 minutes without air
> 3 hours without shelter (in harsh climate)
> 3 days without water
> 3 weeks without food
> For food the minimum emergency food supply you should take is 72 hours in your grab bag and another 2 weeks supply in your tab/ruck. This sounds like a lot but in reality it isn’t and you can just buy dried food or expensive MREs it’s up to your choice and budget.
> 
> *Water: *waterborne diseases can really do a number on your system - so either consider a filter straw system or get a few boxes of coffee filters - a decent rugged canteen and a shit ton of aqua tabs - know how to use them.
> 
> (In an emergency you can also take water from the cistern of a toilet flush- although you will want to purify and filter the water first).
> 
> a few sachets of instant coffee/tea/chock milk and juice mix
> *Tools:*
> 
> E-Tool (Shovel) for digging - if you don’t know how valuable this is - you really shouldn’t be going in the first place.
> Knife: any full tang knife is your best friend/ failing that get a decent leather man.
> Glow sticks? Need them? Get a set including IR
> Fire starter kit or similar kit (poor man’s version is to get a waterproof container and store two or three lighters and matchboxes inside)
> Paracord 50 meters
> Flagging table /survey tape (orange)- can be used to mark our UXO /Hazard (but unless people know what they are looking for may be useless).
> Compass & map (topographic)
> Handheld GPS terminal
> Sharpie pens
> Chalk
> Notepad and pens(pencils)
> Spare batteries
> Flashlight or headlamp
> Elephant tape (duct tape)
> Signal mirror and whistle
> *Shelter:*
> 
> Sleeping bag
> Ground mat
> Bivvy sheet
> Extra paracord 50m
> *Hygiene:*
> 
> Paper roll or wet wipes (obvious)
> Wash kit and tooth brush
> Talcum powder - perf non perfumed
> Roll on deodorant
> Nail clippers
> *Medical(self):*
> 
> IFAK: Individual first aid kit with NP airway
> Chetosan or similar hemostatic dressing
> Tourniquet x 2
> Sterile syringes /w needles (multiple gauges)
> Spare combat dressing or gauze and rolls
> Blunt tip scissors or EMT shares
> Forceps
> Chest seal (if trained)
> Decompression kit (if trained)
> SAM split or similar portable split
> Salt sachets or hydration tabs
> ORS sachets 2 weeks supply
> Laxatives
> Calcium Tablets
> Broad spectrum antibiotic
> Oral pain relief : Paracetamol
> Anti inflammatory : Ibuprofen
> lidocaine cream or spray
> A small packet of cloves or clove oil (excellent temporary pain relief for damaged teeth or cavities and also is an excellent field antibiotic)
> Anti Septic cream or powder
> Anti fungal powder
> Insect repellant
> Anti bite kit
> Personal medication min x 2 months supply with prescription included
> Spare spectacles in case with prescription written inside case
> *Good to have;*
> 
> Wind up or battery radio: world band ones are good to keep up with the news
> Book: pack a book with you - it can be anything that helps keep you sane and during the periods where it is “HURRY UP AND WAIT”.
> Cigarettes - get local ones even if you don’t smoke as you can use these to barter with especially at checkpoints or with locals
> Chocolate- great morale booster and also can use to barter with
> ——
> 
> As you can see this is a lot of kit and this is just personal stuff you would be expected to have on you to be moderately self reliant for a short period of time.
> 
> Now add to this skill at arms training, map and compass, field craft, being able to identify potential UXOs and basic principles of soldiering - all the basic bread and butter stuff and you can quickly see why letting these young and old well intentioned volunteers join an active war zone is a very bad idea.
> 
> Add to this the language barrier - only 18% of Ukrainians can speak English- this can prose a serious problem during combat where comms is key.
> 
> It’s not just turn up in some eBay tactical gear, grab a gun and yell up yours putin. I seriously worry about them.
> 
> *Sorry if digressed but this is a very sore subject for me.*



The volunteer program is not 100% honest.

NATO wants to send elite soldiers to help Ukraine but disguised as "volunteers" from around the world.

These volunteers are divided by two, one is NATO forces and the other are idiots.

The ones who get weapons, even better than Ukraine forces are the NATO elite soldiers.

The idiots get nothing.

Not so surprising.


----------



## CIA Mole

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504536420404408324

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## gambit

__





Vladimir Putin has allegedly ordered the arrest of a top military chief


A top military chief has allegedly been arrested by the FSB on the orders of Vladimir Putin




euroweeklynews.com





It is being reported today, Thursday, March 17, that General Roman Gavrilov, has been detained. He was the deputy chief of one of the first units to enter Ukraine, the Rosgvardia, spearheading the whole ‘special operation’.​​The beatings...I mean arrests...will continue until morale...I mean victories...improve.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504595638817853450

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504596838564999168

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504426844199669762
He is a good orator

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> Native Russian speaking people of Ukraine are demanding more weapons and a no fly zone, One of them asked the US senate to provide it. His name was Zelinski.



Speaking language means nothing. Chinese and Indians speaking English doesn't magically make them ethnic English. And Zelinski is also not ethnic Russian.


----------



## khansaheeb

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Yeah about that...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> סיירתי באתר ההנצחה בבאבי יאר. שום דבר לא נפגע שם אתמול
> 
> 
> האוקראינים דיווחו כי אתר ההנצחה לעשרות אלפי הנרצחים בשואה ניזוק על ידי הרוסים, אבל אחרי סיור ברגל אני יכול לומר - זה לא תואם את המציאות. הפגיעה הקרובה ביותר לבאבי יאר הייתה במגדל התקשורת, וגם הוא עצמו לא ניזוק - פרט לפגיעות קטנות של רסיסים. רון בן ישי מדווח מקייב
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www-ynet-co-il.translate.goog


 

news
World news





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I toured the Babi Yar Memorial Site. Nothing was damaged there yesterday​The Ukrainians reported that the memorial site for the tens of thousands killed in the Holocaust was damaged by the Russians, but after a tour on foot I can say - it does not correspond to reality. The closest hit to Babi Yar was in the communications tower, and he himself was unharmed - except for minor shrapnel hits. Ron Ben Yishai reports from Kiev​Ron Ben Yishai, Ynet and Yedioth Ahronoth correspondent to Kiev 02.03.22 | 04:24
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אתר ההנצחה בבאבי יאר לא נפגע וגם לא ניזוק. אחרי סיור בכל רחבי האתר הגדול אני יכול לדווח בוודאות שאף אנדרטה לא ניזוקה ושום פצצה, טיל או פגז לא פגעה בשטח. הפגיעה הקרובה ביותר לבאבי יאר הייתה במתחם מגדל התקשורת והטלוויזיה של קייב, במרחק של כ-300 מטרים מהאנדרטה החדשה, ובמרחק של כקילומטר מהאנדרטה הישנה לנרצחי הטבח במלחמת העולם השנייה. 

עשרות אלפי יהודים נרצחו כאן, הושלכו לערוץ הנחל ואחר כך נקברו. לאחרונה נבנה במקום, במימון יהודים עתירי ממון מרוסיה ומאוקראינה, אתר עצום ובו אנדרטה אחת גדולה עשויה ברוזנה והרבה אנדרטאות קטנות לזכר הנרצחים, כולל האוקראינים, שנרצחו בביצות באזור באבי יאר על ידי הנאצים ועוזריהם. 


4 צפייה בגלריה




רון בן ישי באנדרטת באבי יאר לאחר ההפצצה











מגדל הטלוויזיה. פגיעות קלות בלבד

( צילום: רון בן ישי)







רון בן ישי באנדרטת באבי יאר לאחר ההפצצה

( צילום: רון בן ישי )







ההרס בסמוך למגדל. המתחם ספג שלושה טילים

( צילום: רון בן ישי)

אתמול פרסמה ממשלת אוקראינה מידע מוטעה ומטעה על פגיעה באתר, כולל האנדרטאות ואזור הקבורה היהודי. כל זה, ראיתי במו עיניי אחרי סיור מקיף ברגל במקום, אינו תואם את המציאות. 

היו אמנם שלושה טילים שפגעו במתחם שסביב מגדל התקשורת והסבו נזק למבני החברה המפעילה את האתר, אבל מגדל התקשורת עצמו לא ניזוק, חוץ מכמה פגיעות קטנות של רסיסים וכתמי עשן שחור, שאותן אפשר לראות על העמוד הראשי של מגדל התקשורת המאסיבי. הבניינים מסביב ניזוקו ושידורי רשתות הטלוויזיה האוקראיניות נפסקו לזמן קצר, כנראה בגלל ההדף שפגע באנטנות. 

נראה שכוונת הרוסים הייתה לבצע פיגוע תודעתי שיגביר את חרדת תושבי קייב ואוקראינה כולה, אבל לא להרוס ממש את מגדל התקשורת שבנוי מקונסטרוקציות פלדה חזקות מאוד ועמידות. קשה גם לפגוע בדיוק במגדל כזה. המתחם שסביבו ספג שלושה טילים, כנראה טילי שיוט או טילי אוויר-קרקע ששוגרו ממטוסים שטסו מעל העננים. אנדריי, אחד משומרי המתקן, אמר לי ששניים מחבריו נפצעו ונלקחו לבית חולים. 





נראה שהסיפור והפגיעה בבאבי יאר הוא חלק ממערכת התודעה והפייק ניוז שלא רק הרוסים עושים בה שימוש, אלא גם האוקראינים. יש לכן להתייחס בזהירות רבה למידע הנעשה בזירות הקרב שמגיע מגורמים רשמיים כביכול משני הצדדים. המקור האמין באמת הוא סוכנות הביון של ארה"ב וסוכנויות הביון הבריטיות, שעל פי ניסיוני לא רק מצליחות לקבל מידע אמין על הנעשה בשטח, אלא גם מטיבות להעריך אותו.
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https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article...oola&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=internal


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504614394176720897



Go ahead. Make China angry and China sends 20,000 HJ-12 missiles to Russia to slaughter American and British volunteers in Ukraine.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
6 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Clutch

MH.Yang said:


> There is no need to issue an additional 6 trillion CNY every year to support trade with Russia, but only once.
> 
> Russia will buy equivalent goods from China, and these CNY will return to China. In the second year, China only needs to re extract 6 trillion CNY from China to buy Russian resources. Of course, Russia may keep some CNY balance because of its trade surplus, but not too much, we can accept it. The Chinese govt will certainly negotiate with the Russian govt to agree on the CNY balance ceiling. China will not allow too many offshore CNY to enter the international market from Russia. We will exchange other physical US dollars&euros for excess CNY.
> 
> Secondly, using 6 trillion CNY to buy Russian resources will save us $1 trillion in foreign exchange every year, because we should have used these dollars to buy resources. So that means we printed 6 trillion CNY in exchange for $1 trillion. Of course, the US dollar cannot be used in China, so it cannot hedge the inflation caused by RMB 6 trillion.
> 
> Moreover, China already has too many foreign exchange reserves, and an additional $1 trillion a year will lead to a large loss of China's interest rates. Therefore, the Chinese govt will invest the excess US $1 trillion in foreign exchange into B&R projects. Congratulations, both Hungary and Pakistan are the investment priorities in the B&R Project, and you will benefit from it.
> 
> As you said, if China needs to print an additional 6 trillion CNY every year, it is really unacceptable to us. But if it is printed only once, it will have little impact on China's inflation. In 2021, China's trade surplus with the United States brought us $1.1 trillion in additional foreign exchange. In order to exchange these balances, the Chinese government issued an additional 7 trillion CNY. This has not had any impact on our inflation, because China has a serious overcapacity, and adding trillions of dollars of orders will not bring serious inflation. Moreover, we will use foreign exchange to buy bulk materials from the international market to export inflation to the world.



After the West has neutered Russia ... They are coming for China. Same playbook... But it would be Taiwan as bait. Let's see if the Chinese do any better. 

This Ukraine fiasco has been a disaster for Russia. It will but them back at least 50 years unless there is an internal "Democracy" Orange Revolution by the CIA....

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Clutch said:


> After the West has neutered Russia ... They are coming for China. Same playbook... But it would be Taiwan as bait. Let's see if the Chinese do any better.
> 
> This Ukraine fiasco has been a disaster for Russia. It will but them back at least 50 years unless there is an internal "Democracy" Orange Revolution by the CIA....



America is no threat to China and Russia. China and Russia dominate The Old World. America has no foothold in The Old World. You can't dominate the world unless you can dominate The Old World.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Wood




----------



## Clutch

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504597290157285377
> 
> Russia has more than 1,500 losses now. And it’s a completely unsustainable rate



I agree. I was neutral in this confrontation.... With leaning towards Russia because of Ukraine Nazi affiliations, a sanctuary and training centre for White Global Terrorism, and their stupidity ... But even I will have to admit ... The Russians have lost.

The Russians conducted this war like idiots... Poor strategy... While the Ukrainian were armed to the teeth by the West.

Fallout will be that Russia will now take revenge by funding other terrorist entities who want to harm the West around the world. Not good for the Muslim nations that are going through their own internal strife.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504518364923940869


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504518364923940869



Russia has gold. Gold is the only real money. The rest are all garbage.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## FairAndUnbiased

@Foinikas @Apollon 

What do you think about this?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504101781848174592


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504508199537451008

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Menthol

sammuel said:


> ~​​Russia's Lavrov says some deals with Ukraine close to being agreed​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Wednesday that some formulations for agreements with Ukraine were close to being agreed, with neutral status for Kyiv under "serious" consideration.
> 
> However, he told the RBC news outlet that there were other issues of importance too, including the usage of the Russian language in Ukraine and freedom of speech.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia's Lavrov says some deals with Ukraine close to being agreed
> 
> 
> Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Wednesday that some formulations for agreements with Ukraine were close to being agreed, with neutral status for Kyiv under "serious" consideration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com



The current president of Ukraine is Jews.

He will betray Russia in the end.

Ukraine will never 100% neutral, the USA will take advantage of it.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ukraine should be broken up into several small countries.


----------



## The SC

Odesa is next..


----------



## Type59

Ich said:


> This thread is going boring. Always the same propaganda shit repeating every second/third page of this thread although it is already proofed as meaningless propaganda some pages before. Its so...so....uuahh, cant stand.



Too much jumping for joy over dead soldiers.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

Clutch said:


> Fallout will be that Russia will now take revenge by funding other terrorist entities who want to harm the West around the world. Not good for the Muslim nations that are going through their own internal strife.


Its true, and any idiot that works with russia to attack the west will be as dead as those ISIS idiots who were funded by CIA. 

And I will go further and say that any country that works to undermine the wests sanctions against russia will ben dealt with quite harshly. And the weaker they are the more harshly they will be treated.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504599100884463619

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504594580095836167

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## MH.Yang

Clutch said:


> After the West has neutered Russia ... They are coming for China. Same playbook... But it would be Taiwan as bait. Let's see if the Chinese do any better.
> 
> This Ukraine fiasco has been a disaster for Russia. It will but them back at least 50 years unless there is an internal "Democracy" Orange Revolution by the CIA....


Copy Taiwan script? 


Have you ever thought that the script goes like this: 
China uses the method of Western sanctions against Russia to sanction western countries, and China announces the confiscation of all western countries' factory&Investment &Patents in China. Then China has more than 70% of the world's factories, and has the resource support of Russia and other countries. The West has only dollars left in banks.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504424349700431876

I’d choose my local Walmart security guard over these Syrian jokers. Russia getting desperate. Those guys are cannon fodder

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Menthol

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503982005217804289


 
Ukraine's army is using civilians as cannon fodder.

Beside the tall building is a suitable position for attacking.


There are many complaints from Ukraine people that the army is using them and preventing them to leave.

The army is supposed to be to protect the civilians, not the other way around.

Ukraine's army is extremely funny.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504452916077281284


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504637806915858433

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504640817637601284

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504603742204837897


----------



## Viet

Fitch cut Russia credit rating to C, S&P to Cc. Putin pushes Russia closer to default.

The first since 100 years

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

MH.Yang said:


> Copy Taiwan script?
> 
> 
> Have you ever thought that the script goes like this:
> China uses the method of Western sanctions against Russia to sanction western countries, and China announces the confiscation of all western countries' factory&Investment &Patents in China. Then China has more than 70% of the world's factories, and has the resource support of Russia and other countries. The West has only dollars left in banks.


The western military industrial complex is praying every day that you do this. Trump will win an election on the promise to turn against china. They also dont want to pay you back all the US debt that you hold. 

But whatever you do, they west will turn against china befog china becomes too powerful.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504618941985046530

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504585147215187972


----------



## jamahir

Viet said:


> Too bad that you cheer him. Putin is a Psychopath, people say Russia is an asian country without Ukraine, like China or Turkey. He is angry he wants to be part of Europe.



1. The Russian base in Antarctica is still named Vostok which means East in the Russian language so I don't think there is any urgency in Putin to be part of Europe / West. Lot of people see Russia as a leader of the alternate arrangement to the Western bloc's politics.

2. If Putin is a psychopath what are George Bush jr and Tony B'liar who genocided the Iraqis and have an arrest warrant for that war issued by the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission ? What are Obomba, Sarkozy and Cameron who launched the regime-change invasions of Libya and Syria ?

3. Are you a Communist from Vietnam ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504485088913858571

Reactions: Sad Sad:
1


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## FairAndUnbiased

thetutle said:


> The western military industrial complex is praying every day that you do this. Trump will win an election on the promise to turn against china. They also dont want to pay you back all the US debt that you hold.
> 
> But whatever you do, they west will turn against china befog china becomes too powerful.


too late, China has higher GDP than EU.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> View attachment 825094
> 
> 
> Odesa is next..



Odessa is a port city. Naval guns easily cover it. Plus, naval Su-30SM based at Crimea can easily strike it.


----------



## MH.Yang

thetutle said:


> The western military industrial complex is praying every day that you do this. Trump will win an election on the promise to turn against china. They also dont want to pay you back all the US debt that you hold.
> 
> But whatever you do, they west will turn against china befog china becomes too powerful.


Without factories, there would be no goods. The absence of commodity support means the complete collapse of the western monetary system and the most vicious inflation.
China can certainly give up its worthless debts. China will use necessities to require other resource countries to use CNY for trade settlement. You can use dollars to rebuild the industrial chain from scratch.
But at that time, I'm afraid no country would accept the dollar. Because you can't provide any goods for these dollars.

You can imagine that Tesla's automobile factory, Apple's factory, patents and factories of various chips have suddenly become the property of Chinese state-owned enterprises overnight. Even some factories left in the West will stop production due to the rupture of the industrial chain. What will happen to the USA? You will be forced to rob necessities with guns, just as blacks once did.
Without enough material, I'm afraid the American warships and tanks at that time were a pile of scrap iron, which could not even repeat a war in Iraq. Of course, it is more likely that the US military is busy quelling domestic riots.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> But whatever you do, they west will turn against china befog china becomes too powerful.



Europeans have good relation with Chinese. They've known each other for eons and share The Old World. It is Americans who are jealous.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504600910357581824

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Menthol

Ali_Baba said:


> This events shows that Putin thinks at a tactical level - and it shows the flaws in the strategic thinking of the Russian 'system' at a whole.
> 
> Sweden and Finland WILL join Nato now - there is no stopping that now.
> 
> Regardless of what 'tactical' wins Putin may gain - he and Russia have both lost strategically - Russia will be neutered after this event and will not be allowed to be able to challenge like this again.
> 
> Europe is united and defence spending is going up massively in Europe - this means that the Americans have to spend less on "defending Europe" and the Europeans will aggressively look to build up that capability themselves.
> 
> This leaves the Americans "more free" to tackle China at a military level - and I don't think that change has been lost on the Chinese at all.
> 
> The China - Russia axis has become a-lot weaker from this war. So - were the Russians goaded into this war with larger strategic objectives by the Americans ?



Maybe...

But what if by enlisting, it becomes the target for extinction?

Singapore and Taiwan are already part of the countries that will be wiped out during the End Times.

In my opinion, foolish, by voluntarily delivering their own extinction while they are supposed to be can be saved.

As long as Finland and Sweden keep neutral, keep promoting peace, and do not join any group of idiots, they will be spared.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504223049477992451

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


----------



## Viet

jamahir said:


> 1. The Russian base in Antarctica is still named Vostok which means East in the Russian language so I don't think there is any urgency in Putin to be part of Europe / West. Lot of people see Russia as a leader of the alternate arrangement to the Western bloc's politics.
> 
> 2. If Putin is a psychopath what are George Bush jr and Tony B'liar who genocided the Iraqis and have an arrest warrant for that war issued by the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission ? What are Obomba, Sarkozy and Cameron who launched the regime-change invasions of Libya and Syria ?
> 
> 3. Are you a Communist from Vietnam ?


if you support Putin then buy Russia gov bonds.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504589632524148743

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Sad Sad:
1


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## Menthol

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504052737230708736
> 
> Things are not going well for Russia when Ukraine dictates like this



Ukraine is an idiot!

He is supposed to choose to be neutral.

They believe they are religious, loved, cared, and protected for by Mary.

But they behave like the devil.

I think the problem of Ukraine is not sinners, but people who think they are angels.


I prefer Ukraine to be neutral.

Become the bridge between the West and Russia, to promote peace.


Today, Ukraine is crying for peace.

So, by refusing to be neutral means what?

Freedom to keep provoking Russia?

More wars in the future?

If it's not an idiot, then what?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504570650178031619


----------



## jamahir

Viet said:


> if you support Putin you can buy Russia gov bonds.



I don't understand what this nonsense and unnecessary Capitalist thing called Bonds is. I have before posted that now is the opportunity for Russia to disconnect from the Western-governments-maintained Capitalist socio-economic system and look at advancing the legacy of the USSR so that it can adopt for itself and its allies a progressive, empathetic and harmonious socio-economic system and I have written of such a socio-economic system in this thread :





A new economic system for the near-future


Hello, the below idea has been brewing in my head for some time and it came up during recent discussions with @Naofumi and @Soumitra in different threads. I present a new economic system that is needed especially in countries like India and Pakistan where old regressive social mores meet modern...



defence.pk


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504573972247109633


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504552734711812096


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504637806915858433
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504640817637601284




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504522422258737154


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504474719021506573

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504646615243837440


----------



## khansaheeb

Clutch said:


> After the West has neutered Russia ... They are coming for China. Same playbook... But it would be Taiwan as bait. Let's see if the Chinese do any better.
> 
> This Ukraine fiasco has been a disaster for Russia. It will but them back at least 50 years unless there is an internal "Democracy" Orange Revolution by the CIA....


A neutered panda or dragon is hard to envisage. They are always wanting Pandas to breed and dragons are extinct.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504683275868160002


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504449941246201861


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504484651611549697

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Ah so when NATO invades and intervenes in conflicts around the world you guys are like "War is not black and white..."
> 
> But now it's "Russians are bad,Ukrainians are good,that's all you need to know".
> 
> I asked you in a previous post,where were you when Ukrainians were slaughtering people in Donbass in 2015? Where were you when the war started? When mothers were telling Poroshenko to leave them alone and asking why the Ukrainian army is killing them. Where were you when Iraq was being bombed to pieces and children were dying here and there? When Bush and Obama were destabilizing entire regions to bring "freedom"? The amazing democratic countries of the world intervening when oil and geopolitics are suitable. Leaving dictators to rule countries for decades when they're friendly to them or they have nothing to gain from a war. Saddam was an ok guy for them until he invaded Kuwait. The Taliban were barbarians but nobody cared to bomb them to pieces until 2001. Somoza and Central American dictators. The Myanmari regimes. The old Taiwanese and South Korean regimes. Haitian dictators and African generals who ruled by killing thousands of people.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498403975800012809



We can discuss this once Russia is crushed into oblivion. We are at war and Europe is not willing to lose it. So far it looks quite good. Russia suffers extreme high casualties and as it looks like it loses its power in central asia too. Kazakhstan and Usbekistan denounced Russia and offer full support to Ukraine. Nobody likes losers brother. And russia is losing bad.

Btw in Germany banks now blocked accounts of all russian citizens. They cant even get welfare money.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504498129361592321

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504448867961614338


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504428008949571584

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## Apollon

FairAndUnbiased said:


> @Foinikas @Apollon
> 
> What do you think about this?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504101781848174592


Russian Propaganda. Mariupol has a large greek population and Greece tried evacuate them at 1st week of war. Russia blocked it. 

Its quite easy to spot russian propaganda. Usually its very primitive and she just mirrors word by word what kremlins peskov says. I just wonder why she didnt went through a US biolab on her way out. 😅


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504439919011414017

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Apollon

Another russian helicopter plows Ukraine fields 








Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia has gold. Gold is the only real money. The rest are all garbage.



We got half of their gold


----------



## Viet

jamahir said:


> I don't understand what this nonsense and unnecessary Capitalist thing called Bonds is. I have before posted that now is the opportunity for Russia to disconnect from the Western-governments-maintained Capitalist socio-economic system and look at advancing the legacy of the USSR so that it can adopt for itself and its allies a progressive, empathetic and harmonious socio-economic system and I have written of such a socio-economic system in this thread :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A new economic system for the near-future
> 
> 
> Hello, the below idea has been brewing in my head for some time and it came up during recent discussions with @Naofumi and @Soumitra in different threads. I present a new economic system that is needed especially in countries like India and Pakistan where old regressive social mores meet modern...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


A country is destroyed. People are fleeing. And you talk of nonsense shit.



Menthol said:


> Ukraine is an idiot!
> 
> He is supposed to choose to be neutral.
> 
> They believe they are religious, loved, cared, and protected for by Mary.
> 
> But they behave like the devil.
> 
> I think the problem of Ukraine is not sinners, but people who think they are angels.
> 
> 
> I prefer Ukraine to be neutral.
> 
> Become the bridge between the West and Russia, to promote peace.
> 
> 
> Today, Ukraine is crying for peace.
> 
> So, by refusing to be neutral means what?
> 
> Freedom to keep provoking Russia?
> 
> More wars in the future?
> 
> If it's not an idiot, then what?


Who gives you the right to dictate other what they have to do?


----------



## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> Yes, CNY is appreciating abnormally.
> 
> First, the reason for the appreciation is that the Ukrainian war led to the flight of European capital to China, and a large number of Europeans used the euro to buy CNY. That has nothing to do with the use of CNY settlement in Russian trade.
> 
> Second, such abnormal appreciation will not last long. If necessary, the Chinese govt will intervene in the exchange rate. And raising interest rates in USA will take away a lot of hot money.
> 
> Third, this level of appreciation will not affect China's exports. Trump's high tariffs cannot defeat China's export trade. How much impact can these appreciation bring?





MH.Yang said:


> Sir, there are not so many offshore CNY in the world that can consume all China's foreign exchange reserves.
> 
> You may have seriously underestimated the amount of foreign exchange in China and seriously overestimated the number of offshore CNY.


Firstly, how much Yuan overseas is a public figure, you cannot "overestimate" the amount because those figure are need to balance international monetary policy. So, I do not overestimate the number of offshore Yuan.

As for Chinese Foreign Reserve, the number is published by Chinese Central Bank, however, unlike other Central Bank, I would treat that figure with a grain of salt, seeing China control Chinese monetary policy directly. That figure could be off, but a Healthy Foreign reserve would have 50/50 CYN vs all other Basket. that is the par point, were it the number of Actual Chinese Reserve? I don't know.

I have already said what I set out to say, I don't get why you keep talking about the same point. I mean, if you think China can stomach 7 trillions Yuan will not impact China financial market, I mean, that's your believe, I will not argue with you on what you believe, because I cannot change your mind, and you cannot change mine. So, that's a non-starter. 

As I said to the other dude, this is NOT about trade, this is about Monetary Policy, I have my concern because what you are saying does not sound sustainable to me for the reason I mentioned (You only have a limited Yuan you can exchange with USD/EURO or what have you) and the Russian buying Yuan is non-sustainable because of their fallen currency. No matter how much you repeat your point (which is it does not hurt Chinese export and reusing Yuan for purchase) does not change both fact I mention, and if you believe this is not going to impact China. I mean, you can of course go ahead and believe it. 

I don't have time to go back 20 rounds with you saying the exact same thing and I am saying the exact same thing. So I am going to end it here. You can have the last word if you want, or you can ignore this, I really don't care. I just don't have time to go around and around mining the same argument with you over and over again.



thetutle said:


> No, No,no, No, Just no. It can be paid with Yuan. Its very very simple


How?


----------



## thetutle

MH.Yang said:


> Without factories, there would be no goods. The absence of commodity support means the complete collapse of the western monetary system and the most vicious inflation.
> China can certainly give up its worthless debts. China will use necessities to require other resource countries to use CNY for trade settlement. You can use dollars to rebuild the industrial chain from scratch.
> But at that time, I'm afraid no country would accept the dollar. Because you can't provide any goods for these dollars.
> 
> You can imagine that Tesla's automobile factory, Apple's factory, patents and factories of various chips have suddenly become the property of Chinese state-owned enterprises overnight. Even some factories left in the West will stop production due to the rupture of the industrial chain. What will happen to the USA? You will be forced to rob necessities with guns, just as blacks once did.
> Without enough material, I'm afraid the American warships and tanks at that time were a pile of scrap iron, which could not even repeat a war in Iraq. Of course, it is more likely that the US military is busy quelling domestic riots.


It would be painful for both. And best avoided. Europe would just rebuild supply chains and invest in other counties. Maybe Malaysia, Vietnam or even closer to Europe that has cheap wages. Maybe Ukraine. Or what’s left of it. 

But China should support the rules based order. It better for all. A new system if we are forced into it might not be a fair as today.

And there is no guarantee that China will be better off in the new system. South Korea and Japan might go nuclear. EU might establish new colonies in Asia. Have spheres of influence in Asia. 

Its worth defending this system for everyone I think. Let’s see what China decides


----------



## jamahir

Viet said:


> A country is destroyed. People are fleeing. And you talk of nonsense shit.



1. I mentioned to you three other destroyed countries - Iraq, Libya and Syria. Where is your empathy for those ?

2. How is what I said nonsense ? I just speak of a way for peace in humanity.



Viet said:


> Who gives you the right to dictate other what they have to do?



But the Western governments whom you seem to support have the right to dictate to others ?


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504692101770010626


----------



## beijingwalker

thetutle said:


> It would be painful for both. And best avoided. Europe would just rebuild supply chains and invest in other counties. Maybe Malaysia, Vietnam or even closer to Europe that has cheap wages. Maybe Ukraine. Or what’s left of it.


This will take at least decades if ever and they've been talking about it for at least a decade already.

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504684682876706817

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504675902872948741

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504675407374663682

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Wow Wow:
1


----------



## Apollon

Russian soldiers trying to intimidate grandmas in Ukraine village ...






They were told they get celebrated but are insulted by the village grandmas as facists and freaks 😁

This is why Russia has lost Ukraine. Whatever sympathy was, its all gone. Ukraine is part of the free world

Reactions: Like Like:
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## NA71

Apollon said:


> We can discuss this once Russia is crushed into oblivion. We are at war and Europe is not willing to lose it. So far it looks quite good. Russia suffers extreme high casualties and as it looks like it loses its power in central asia too. Kazakhstan and Usbekistan denounced Russia and offer full support to Ukraine. Nobody likes losers brother. And russia is losing bad.
> 
> Btw in Germany banks now blocked accounts of all russian citizens. They cant even get welfare money.


Russia is crushed into oblivion


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504693828854464523


----------



## Tamerlane

MH.Yang said:


> Without factories, there would be no goods. The absence of commodity support means the complete collapse of the western monetary system and the most vicious inflation.
> China can certainly give up its worthless debts. China will use necessities to require other resource countries to use CNY for trade settlement. You can use dollars to rebuild the industrial chain from scratch.
> But at that time, I'm afraid no country would accept the dollar. Because you can't provide any goods for these dollars.
> 
> You can imagine that Tesla's automobile factory, Apple's factory, patents and factories of various chips have suddenly become the property of Chinese state-owned enterprises overnight. Even some factories left in the West will stop production due to the rupture of the industrial chain. What will happen to the USA? You will be forced to rob necessities with guns, just as blacks once did.
> Without enough material, I'm afraid the American warships and tanks at that time were a pile of scrap iron, which could not even repeat a war in Iraq. Of course, it is more likely that the US military is busy quelling domestic riots.



That's a harsh, but true, assessment. If US-China trade collapses, or the dollar depreciates precipitously, the US will descend into civil strife very quickly.

The US may have military bases spread around the world, and US partisans may boast of their ability to destroy any country on the planet, but internally it's a house of cards. The enemies are not outside the country, they're inside. The real enemies are the leadership, both political and business, who've ruined the country because of their greed, the millions of poor people and the horrendous ethnic divide. One hard knock and the black and white militias will be out there, fighting in the streets for control.

It's not something I look forward to because Canada will go down with the US. Unfortunately, Canada doesn't even have enough military to go moose hunting. If millions of heavily armed refugees invade the country no one will be able to stop them.


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## Apollon

NA71 said:


> Russia is crushed into oblivion



It is. Russia had 1000 years european history. Its completly wiped out. Evry connection cut off in trade, sport, culture. On military side they have massive losses and EU and USA flood endless stream of weapons into Ukraine. Ukraine has become toxic Environment for Russia. Its Impossible to hold land where evry granny owns 5 MANPADS

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504692403227312137


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504681413886443520



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504676555359862784


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> the dollar go in other investment.to bring more money back
> a question what other countries do when they use foreign currencies to back their money ?
> by the way you must consider one small fact . printing money is not inherently bad , it become bad when you print money but you cant spend it
> 
> 
> in 2007 - 2008 we had 50 billion dollar in reserve ,our economy was more than 500 Billion , how we survived ?
> 
> very simple all economy is not foreign trade , you must ask yourself how much of that 1.4trilion Dollar is generated inside Russia and how much that part which is generated inside Russia will be affected by sanctions .





Hack-Hook said:


> we were not allowed swift , we were not allowed trade in valuable metal , our oil industry were sanctioned , we were not allowed to trade in Dollar .
> every company wanted to trade with us would have been sanctioned if it get known . i wonder if you mean another iran . we were not even allowed to loan money for fighting Corona virus while according to all laws we were entitled to the loan because we didn't ever used our right to borrow money .
> we learned to live with sanction , we used transaction systems which were used since thousand of years ago , we also used barter system , ......
> 
> when sanction put on Iran , iran currency lost 90% of its value . so nothing new there . the only difference is we don have that much of foreign debt .
> 
> Iranian rial lost 90 % of its value in 2004-2005 and again 30-40% in 2018-2019 . but the economy is not only foreign trade for all countries ,for some yes but for countries like Iran foreign trade is not even 10% of our economy , the rest is based on what we do inside our country ,and that made some country more resilient to sanction , and I believe Russia also have a big bunch of economy based on their country not foreign trade , that's why they survived the fall of USSR and the years after it and that's why I believe they survive this time
> 
> 
> they stop trading it in form of not using it to pay for oil .


First of all, Biden lifted some payment system 









Biden Lifts Sanctions On Iran’s Nuclear Program | The Daily Wire







www.dailywire.com





And according to SWIFT, SWIFT Sanction was lifted by SWIFT in 2016 after JCOPAS agreement









Update: Iran Sanctions Agreement | SWIFT - The global provider of secure financial messaging services


17 January 2016




www.swift.com





And finally, US granted waiver to countries to trade oil with Iran.






So, no, I am talking about the same Iran, you probably not aware of the current sanctioning condition in Iran.

And You can keep arguing about China can pay for Russian Oil, it's a chicken and an egg question. The problem you don't have that initial chicken or egg to start to paradox. You need extra money to buy "EXTRA" Russian oil that you haven't brought before. You are talking about increasing the purchase, not keeping the same level of engagement. If I want to buy something new from a vendor I always brought from, you will still need to come up with that money, and you cannot print it, which mean that has to come from somewhere. Either you get it from terminating Trade with other (thus redirect those fund to Russia) or you get extra funding by selling the asset you already own. 

Once you have that seed money, then you can talk about How it can be reinjecting into China and keep using this over and over (Which in itself is another question because you simply cannot do that, because once you clear the oil and gas payment, and the Russian pay you back with electronics or what have you, those money are not going to go back to Central Bank, instead it will be going back to the people who make those Electronic or what have you for them to make more, which mean come next year, the same question appear, you will then be needing to find a way to get that money to buy Russian Oil, but that is a discussion for later)

Problem for you is you are thinking of the initial money coming out of nowhere, True if Russia has always been supplying Chinese Oil and Gas in a way that could cover all that payment, but in reality, China buy 1/8 of what EU brought from Russian, which mean you will need to find a way to take over the other 7/8 of the sale to cover the entire EU consumption. That cost money, and since China is not even going to need that much, are you sure they want to do that?

As I said with MY Yang, I mean, if you want to believe this, that is up to you, I have my doubt on the issue, and just because you keep saying there are going to be money does not mean there are going to be money involved. And at the end of the day, this is not me, not yours and not anyone decision to make, it's Chinese Government. So basically, we keep dancing around the same tune is useless, so let's just go back to you believe what you want to believe, and I believe what I want to believe. And if you think Russia is going to be okay, well, that's you, and probably not going to affect you as you don't live in Russia. I have a lot of friend living in Russia, they all tell me life is getting harder by day, but well, I don't live in Russia, and you don't live in Russia, so there really aren't any point to keep doing this. 

I said my piece, I don't know if you had said yours. And I am going to leave it at this. As I said to the other dude, you can have your final word if you want. But I am not going to talk about this further because all I did and all you did, is just keep repeating ourselves, and I have no time to do that.


----------



## NA71

Apollon said:


> It is. Russia had 1000 years european history. Its completly wiped out. Evry connection cut off in trade, sport, culture. On military side they have massive losses and EU and USA flood endless stream of weapons into Ukraine. Ukraine has become toxic Environment for Russia. Its Impossible to hold land where evry granny owns 5 MANPADS


Good luck


----------



## thetutle

Apollon said:


> Russian soldiers trying to intimidate grandmas in Ukraine village ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were told they get celebrated but are insulted by the village grandmas as facists and freaks 😁
> 
> This is why Russia has lost Ukraine. Whatever sympathy was, its all gone. Ukraine is part of the free world


You know what I also think, Russia could very easily turn democratic. who would have thought 15 years ago that Ukraine would be fighting harder than anyone for freedom and democracy?

It was just a Russian satellite. look how things turned out. The people just became enlightened. I never saw it coming. 

Whats to say that Russia wont have the same process. They are almost the same people as ukranians, they are almost the same people as you and me. Why would they choose to live in a tyranny run by a mafia? Its unsustainable.


----------



## Viet

jamahir said:


> 1. I mentioned to you three other destroyed countries - Iraq, Libya and Syria. Where is your empathy for those ?
> 
> 2. How is what I said nonsense ? I just speak of a way for peace in humanity.
> 
> 
> 
> But the Western governments whom you seem to support have the right to dictate to others ?


So because other can do you can too? Because thieves can steal you too? There is no excuse for Russia.

Personally I never give any party the rights for unjustified aggression.


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## tower9

thetutle said:


> It would be painful for both. And best avoided. Europe would just rebuild supply chains and invest in other counties. Maybe Malaysia, Vietnam or even closer to Europe that has cheap wages. Maybe Ukraine. Or what’s left of it.
> 
> But China should support the rules based order. It better for all. A new system if we are forced into it might not be a fair as today.
> 
> And there is no guarantee that China will be better off in the new system. South Korea and Japan might go nuclear. EU might establish new colonies in Asia. Have spheres of influence in Asia.
> 
> Its worth defending this system for everyone I think. Let’s see what China decides


Why would China support the west when they west is constantly sabatoging, demonizing and vilifying China on a daily basis? Do you think China exists in a vacuum, totally unaware of which countries are trying to hurt it and which countries bankroll billions to create a regime of fake news to destroy China’s image? 

The west made China an enemy and it is too late to reverse it. Wake up. And if you think China is that easy to replace in the global supply chain, it would’ve been done already.


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> You dont need to back the deal, Russia gets Yuan and uses it to buy Chinese goods the same day. You are twisting your self up in knots with this idea that there must be some backing or extra printing of money or extra generating of yuan.* China already had that money with which to buy oil.*


May I ask where that money come from?

Again, you are not talking about the oil China is going to get anyway, the one that they had set aside budget at the beginning of the year, but rather oil and gas that China is getting to save Russia. That is a big difference....You are talking about what happen after China paid up those extra Russian oil and gas that were going to EU, when I am asking you where is the money that China get to buy them in the first place? China did not budget them obviously, so money have to come from somewhere. Where does it come from?

I have asked you numerous question and all I got in response is that "I am twisting myself up" I mean, that is not an answer to my question. If you want to convince me, you will need to answer my question directly.

Where is the money going to come up if China want to buy "EXTRA" oil and gas without printing more.
What happened if China buying more than enough USD into settling the debt?
What can Russia guarantee the transaction in return?

All these question need to be answered, and that answer is not "I am twisting myself up" I hope you understand that.


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504696857687212037


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## thetutle

tower9 said:


> Why would China support the west when they west is constantly sabatoging, demonizing and vilifying China on a daily basis? Do you think China exists in a vacuum, totally unaware of which countries are trying to hurt it and which countries bankroll billions to create a regime of fake news to destroy China’s image?
> 
> The west made China an enemy and it is too late to reverse it. Wake up. And if you think China is that easy to replace in the global supply chain, it would’ve been done already.


Thats a good point. trump made a huge mistake with china. Huge. It was treason. 

And there is no good reason for china to side with the west. Only economic reasons now. Hopefully they do. We will see.


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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> You fundamentally misunderstand the banking system I think. Money does come out of nowhere, and it does not need to be printed.


LOL, a person who said "Money *DOES COMES OUT* of nowhere" is saying I fundamentally misunderstand the banking system.....

Not even the American got to say that, and they control world economy...........

LOL good one.


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## CIA Mole

thetutle said:


> You know what I also think, Russia could very easily turn democratic. who would have thought 15 years ago that Ukraine would be fighting harder than anyone for freedom and democracy?
> 
> It was just a Russian satellite. look how things turned out. The people just became enlightened. I never saw it coming.
> 
> Whats to say that Russia wont have the same process. They are almost the same people as ukranians, they are almost the same people as you and me. Why would they choose to live in a tyranny run by a mafia? Its unsustainable.




the fundamental beef btw russia us is russia denying us control of russian resources

the russian oligarchs will take over the country once putin is gone

the russian people and elites will not allow american control of russian resources but americans will try

russians know china is a good distraction for americans so they wont let china get annihilated either




iran venezuela and arab states all had this conflict with the us

only russia managed to hold out owing to its nuclear stockpile


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504479639661543432

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


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## Apollon

thetutle said:


> You know what I also think, Russia could very easily turn democratic. who would have thought 15 years ago that Ukraine would be fighting harder than anyone for freedom and democracy?
> 
> It was just a Russian satellite. look how things turned out. The people just became enlightened. I never saw it coming.
> 
> Whats to say that Russia wont have the same process. They are almost the same people as ukranians, they are almost the same people as you and me. Why would they choose to live in a tyranny run by a mafia? Its unsustainable.



Thats what Putin fears the most and he sees it now. People who were free will never allow tyranny again.


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## CIA Mole

Apollon said:


> Thats what Putin fears the most and he sees it now. People who were free will never allow tyranny again.


u guys want to bet money on whether or not russia will become a model democratic country after putin is gone?


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## Apollon

tower9 said:


> Why would China support the west when they west is constantly sabatoging, demonizing and vilifying China on a daily basis? Do you think China exists in a vacuum, totally unaware of which countries are trying to hurt it and which countries bankroll billions to create a regime of fake news to destroy China’s image?
> 
> The west made China an enemy and it is too late to reverse it. Wake up. And if you think China is that easy to replace in the global supply chain, it would’ve been done already.



Why would China side with a weakling like Russia? Weakness is a virus that easily spreads. Russia shows extreme weakness and China build its entire system on trade with Europe. Russia becomes more and more a problem.


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## vizier

Since the war is going slow for Russian side and putins demands if are too high behind the scenes on the negotiating table there is the slight possibility of even small usage of tactical nukes by Russia on eastern plains of Ukraine to turn the tides for putins victory. But in that case open usage of tactical nukes will be the norm in every future conflict involving nuclear powers. It will open the gates of hell. Maybe that is what Usa wants as well behind the scenes and provokes Russia to do that(or control putin if he was an installed leader). In that case there should be preemptive measures in place for deterrance against using it. Un voting countries including China should be ready to vote against Russia if tactical nukes are used and impose severe sanctions similar to Eu. That would make whole south Asia vote against as well so it wont be a surprise. Also nuclear debris can spread to Poland even if small nukes are used. SM-3 SM-6 sams would possibly placed on Poland to secure western parts of Ukraine having 500-600km range. We would also see similar sam-missile buildup in Letonia,Estonia bordering nato countries as well if that happens. That would be a strategic loss for Russia even if not for putin that is if tactical nukes are used.


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## jamahir

thetutle said:


> You know what I also think, Russia could very easily turn democratic. who would have thought 15 years ago that Ukraine would be fighting harder than anyone for freedom and democracy?



Yes yes, in Libya and Syria too the Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood are fighting for freedom and democracy.  



Viet said:


> So because other can do you can too? Because thieves can steal you too? There is no excuse for Russia.
> 
> Personally I never give any party the rights for unjustified aggression.



1. Russia had valid reasons to do incursion into a country where Nazis were part of the administration and the military ( didn't you read this thread where the Nazis had lynched and hung and crucified some Russian-speakers ? ), where NATO at some point would place nuclear weapons, where in 2014 the CIA-supported Maidan "Revolution" brought in people into power who enabled the first two points. What is stopping Zelensky from understanding those Russian concerns and changing his political policies ?

2. If you don't agree with unjustified aggression then start with explicitly condemning the American military atrocities in your own Vietnam and then the NATO aggression now against Libya, Syria and Venezuela and also in context of Ukraine the NATO supply of weapons and human fighters to the Nazis.


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## Tamerlane

tower9 said:


> Why would China support the west when they west is constantly sabatoging, demonizing and vilifying China on a daily basis? Do you think China exists in a vacuum, totally unaware of which countries are trying to hurt it and which countries bankroll billions to create a regime of fake news to destroy China’s image?
> 
> The west made China an enemy and it is too late to reverse it. Wake up. And if you think China is that easy to replace in the global supply chain, it would’ve been done already.



What they've been doing with 1.8 billion Muslims of the world is even worse. They've been spending billions demonizing Islam and trillions making war on Muslim countries. They think that no one noticed it or there won't be any negative consequences.

Every empire thinks it will last forever, but nature, karma, God, whatever you believe in, always catches up with them.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

CIA Mole said:


> u guys want to bet money on whether or not russia will become a model democratic country after putin is gone?



Its a long process but it is possible. Nobody with some brain can think a hyper corrupted oligarch mafia system can solve the problems of a nation like russia



jamahir said:


> Yes yes, in Libya and Syria too the Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood are fighting for freedom and democracy.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Russia had valid reasons to do incursion into a country where Nazis were part of the administration and the military ( didn't you read this thread where the Nazis had lynched and hung and crucified some Russian-speakers ? ), where NATO at some point would place nuclear weapons, where in 2014 the CIA-supported Maidan "Revolution" brought in people into power who enabled the first two points. What is stopping Zelensky from understanding those Russian concerns and changing his political policies ?
> 
> 2. If you don't agree with unjustified aggression then start with explicitly condemning the American military atrocities in your own Vietnam and then the NATO aggression now against Libya, Syria and Venezuela and also in context of Ukraine the NATO supply of weapons and human fighters to the Nazis.



Why should Zelensky change policies when he sees a chance to destroy putinism?


----------



## CIA Mole

Apollon said:


> Its a long process but it is possible. Nobody with some brain can think a hyper corrupted oligarch mafia system can solve the problems of a nation like russia
> 
> 
> 
> Why should Zelensky change policies when he sees a chance to destroy putinism?


putin xi etc will all die

how confident are you that their replacements will be better


----------



## Viet

jamahir said:


> Yes yes, in Libya and Syria too the Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood are fighting for freedom and democracy.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Russia had valid reasons to do incursion into a country where Nazis were part of the administration and the military ( didn't you read this thread where the Nazis had lynched and hung and crucified some Russian-speakers ? ), where NATO at some point would place nuclear weapons, where in 2014 the CIA-supported Maidan "Revolution" brought in people into power who enabled the first two points. What is stopping Zelensky from understanding those Russian concerns and changing his political policies ?
> 
> 2. If you don't agree with unjustified aggression then start with explicitly condemning the American military atrocities in your own Vietnam and then the NATO aggression now against Libya, Syria and Venezuela and also in context of Ukraine the NATO supply of weapons and human fighters to the Nazis.


Calling a Jew as Nazi is the most rediculous joke ever!

Putin prepares this war over 10y. He clearly stated in multiple speeches what he wants.

Calling NATO expansion, genocide on Russia speaking people or other shits are lame excuses.

Every aggressor needs a reason why he kills people.

Some say they have a problem with their parents.


----------



## jhungary

Meengla said:


> For every Zellensky there are probably 1000 ethnic Russians in Ukraine who would rather be part of Russia as of now--until they realize that Russia is the Sick Man of Europe. As I keep saying here--time will have this all settled. There was no need for a war. American Neocons have pushed another war in the world. And European suckers are, if this goes out of hand, will suffer great misery again...


I can tell you this. 

I used to live in Ukraine and I personally know a lot of Ukrainian. There were this girl Katerina who was born in Transnistria, she was one of the people I talk to and worked with in Ukraine that supported annexation of Crimea, and think ethnic Russian should have their own state. She is probably as Pro-Russian as you can get in Ukraine . 







This is her Facebook post on the 3rd of March in my feed. 

If you translate it to English it is.

I left Nova Kakhovka on the first day of the war. On February 24, at 5 in the morning, we, like all Ukraine, woke up to the sound of bombs. I called my mom, who spent the night at the cottage, and asked if I had gone crazy. Does she hear the same thing. She heard and heard even harder. The earth trembled at the Energetik cottages, where the Russians have now set up their grads. We managed to fill up a full tank of gas, packed our things and decided to go with the kids. Drive out of the city, drive for the hydroelectric power plant, over the bridge. To anywhere but faster. Two hours later, when we approached Nikolaev, our New Kakhovka was already occupied by the Russian army. We spent the night in Nikolaev, where my dad's friends received us. People whom I never knew before, but who knew what situation I was in, who fled from the "liberators" from native Donetsk 8 years ago. Early in the morning headed to the Moldovan border. We knew the border was closed and no one was allowed in, but we decided to take a chance. We have relatives here in Transnistria, I was born here in 1988, and most of my life was lived by my mother. We've been missed. Us, and another woman with a child. I've been sleeping in silence for the third night, but I still have shivers from the noise of the garbage truck under the window. It's scary for me to imagine what mothers who remained in Ukraine have experienced and are going through now. #glorytoukraine #wewillwin #palyanytsia #russianshipfuckyou
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's one thing you support faction within a government, it is another thing to have that taking away from you, she HATES Zelenskyy, yet when you are being attack by Russian, they don't care if you are Pro-Russian or Pro-Ukraine, a bomb, mortar or rocket hit you, and you die the same. That is why even the most pro-Russian people in Ukraine are fighting back, you don't need to go far, just look at the Mayor of Kharkiv Igor Terekhov, who was talking about normalisation with Russia just a year before this is now vowed to fight the Russian to his death.......

Trust me when I say there, for every Zellensky there are probably 1000 ethnic Russians in Ukraine who would rather be part of Russia as of now, then for every one of those people, there are 1000 people in Ukraine, be it ethnic Ukrainian or Russia, want Russia out, some would even tell you they want Putin's head

Reactions: Like Like:
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## MH.Yang

thetutle said:


> It would be painful for both. And best avoided. Europe would just rebuild supply chains and invest in other counties. Maybe Malaysia, Vietnam or even closer to Europe that has cheap wages. Maybe Ukraine. Or what’s left of it.
> 
> But China should support the rules based order. It better for all. A new system if we are forced into it might not be a fair as today.
> 
> And there is no guarantee that China will be better off in the new system. South Korea and Japan might go nuclear. EU might establish new colonies in Asia. Have spheres of influence in Asia.
> 
> Its worth defending this system for everyone I think. Let’s see what China decides


Do you really think western countries still have a chance to rebuild the industrial chain? Now, even with China's cooperation, it will take decades to transfer only the low-end industrial chain. If Western countries need to rebuild a complete industrial chain from scratch, will 100 years be enough? Will China give western countries so much time? After the announcement of sanctions, China will use the supply of necessities to attract other resource countries to trade with CNY, and then occupy the whole world trading system. The pain of both sides is not at the same level, and Western countries have no opportunity to rebuild the industrial chain. 

Yes, nuclear weapons. The USA can also threaten China with nuclear weapons. But I'm afraid China can afford nuclear war, while the USA cannot afford nuclear war.


----------



## CIA Mole

MH.Yang said:


> Do you really think western countries still have a chance to rebuild the industrial chain? Now, even with China's cooperation, it will take decades to transfer only the low-end industrial chain. If Western countries need to rebuild a complete industrial chain from scratch, will 100 years be enough? Will China give western countries so much time? After the announcement of sanctions, China will use the supply of necessities to attract other resource countries to trade with CNY, and then occupy the whole world trading system. The pain of both sides is not at the same level, and Western countries have no opportunity to rebuild the industrial chain.
> 
> Yes, nuclear weapons. The USA can also threaten China with nuclear weapons. But I'm afraid China can afford nuclear war, while the USA cannot afford nuclear war.


china is vulnerable right now theres nothing it can do that others cant


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504678064445222914


----------



## LeGenD

Hack-Hook said:


> we were not allowed swift , we were not allowed trade in valuable metal , our oil industry were sanctioned , we were not allowed to trade in Dollar .
> every company wanted to trade with us would have been sanctioned if it get known . i wonder if you mean another iran . we were not even allowed to loan money for fighting Corona virus while according to all laws we were entitled to the loan because we didn't ever used our right to borrow money .
> we learned to live with sanction , we used transaction systems which were used since thousand of years ago , we also used barter system , ......
> 
> when sanction put on Iran , iran currency lost 90% of its value . so nothing new there . the only difference is we don have that much of foreign debt .
> 
> Iranian rial lost 90 % of its value in 2004-2005 and again 30-40% in 2018-2019 . but the economy is not only foreign trade for all countries ,for some yes but for countries like Iran foreign trade is not even 10% of our economy , the rest is based on what we do inside our country ,and that made some country more resilient to sanction , and I believe Russia also have a big bunch of economy based on their country not foreign trade , that's why they survived the fall of USSR and the years after it and that's why I believe they survive this time
> 
> 
> they stop trading it in form of not using it to pay for oil .



Donald Trump created problems for Iran _*but*_ Europe facilitated Iranian economic activity through INSTEX mechanism:

_INSTEX, which stands for Instrument in Support of Trade Exchanges, is a payment system that will allow companies to trade with Iran despite harsh US sanctions. It will function as a diplomatic shield allowing the exchange of goods without requiring direct transfers of money between Iran and EU companies._





__





EU mechanism for trade with Iran 'now operational'


The EU has created a mechanism that will allow European countries to trade with Iran despite US sanctions. The move is an attempt to show good will toward Iran and keep it in the 2015 nuclear deal.




amp.dw.com





Democrats will be easy on Iran as well:









Russia says it has received US guarantees over Iran nuclear deal


In joint news conference, foreign ministers of Russia and Iran contest Western claim Moscow is blocking JCPOA revival.




www.aljazeera.com





Russia will be allowed to trade with Iran due to JCPOA factor:









Russia says it has received US guarantees over Iran nuclear deal


In joint news conference, foreign ministers of Russia and Iran contest Western claim Moscow is blocking JCPOA revival.




www.aljazeera.com





Iran is able to conduct trade with multiple countries with different payment mechanisms in use:

*EXPORTS*

The top exports of Iran are Crude Petroleum ($12.3B), Ethylene Polymers ($2.63B), Acyclic Alcohols ($1.09B), Iron Ore ($1.06B), and Other Nuts ($630M), exporting mostly to China ($12.1B), India ($3.03B), South Korea ($1.89B), Turkey ($1.5B), and United Arab Emirates ($1.14B).

*IMPORTS*

The top imports of Iran are Rice ($1.47B), Corn ($1.42B), Broadcasting Equipment ($1.38B), Soybean Meal ($853M), and Soybeans ($788M), importing mostly from China ($9.61B), United Arab Emirates ($7.08B), India ($3.86B), Turkey ($2.6B), and Brazil ($2.19B).



https://oec.world/en/profile/country/irn



This isn't to say that all is well in Iran:

_COVID-19 expenditure and plummeting oil revenues have increased Iran’s fiscal deficit-to-GDP ratio to its highest in decades. Government revenues April to December 2020 (9M-2020/21) were only 55% of the approved budget for the entire year. Similarly, only 14% of anticipated oil income materialized, due to lower oil export volumes and prices. Meanwhile, the higher health and social assistance costs resulting from the pandemic pushed total expenditures up by 28% YoY. As such, the country’s fiscal deficit is estimated to increase to over 6% of GDP and public debt to surpass 50% in 2020/21. 

Inflationary pressures also increased in 2020/21, as the Iranian rial depreciated due to a limited supply of foreign exchange and heightened economic uncertainty. Inflation resurged to over 48% (YoY) in February 2021. Since April 2020, the currency has lost half of its value because of US sanctions placed on accessing reserves abroad. Hopes of sanctions’ relief after the November US elections led the rial to regain about 15%. Exchange rate volatility and government financing operations had negative spillover in the stock market. 

These recent economic trends have added stress to low-income households and stalled poverty reduction. Poverty increased by 1 percentage point from 2017/18 to 2018/19, reaching 14% before the pandemic. Now, it is estimated that loss in household incomes through the pandemic and the rising cost of living, due to inflation, will push poverty up by 20 percentage points. A range of social protection measures have been introduced in response but, while they partially compensate for the lost incomes, their real value will erode with continued high inflation.

Iran’s economic outlook hinges on the evolution of the COVID-19 pandemic and the pace of global economic recovery. Recovery to its GDP is projected to be gradual, due to slow vaccination rollout and weak demand from regional trading partners. A decrease in inflation is forecast but, nonetheless, inflation is likely to remain above 20% on average in the medium-term. Coming on top of limited fiscal space and high inflation, economic pressure on poor households will continue. Better targeting of cash transfers can help reduce mitigation costs. 

In the absence of a pick-up in oil revenues, the fiscal deficit is projected to remain high in the medium term. Slow economic recovery would translate into similarly slow growth in non-oil revenues. Higher reliance on bond issuance, especially of short-term bonds, would increase interest payments and amortizations costs. Further issuance of government debt and the sale of public assets could increase financial contagion risks in the stock market and place more stress on the undercapitalized banking sector. _









Overview


Iran’s economy is characterized by the hydrocarbon sector, agriculture and services sectors, and a noticeable state presence in manufacturing and financial services.




www.worldbank.org





Spike in inflation and poverty fueled protests in Iran not long ago:









2019–2020 Iranian protests - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





Iran has authoritative clerical system so many do not have much say in its affairs. 

Biden administration will give concessions to Iran in exchange for revival of JCPOA.

- - -

Russia is much more heavily sanctioned than Iran in the present.

USA imposed limited-scale but well-calculated sanctions on Russia for annexing Crimeia in 2014. Russian economy dropped from 5th spot to 11th spot in the (2014 - 2021) period consequently.

Europe continued to facilitate Russia on the other hand. Germany approved Nord Stream 2 with Russia as well.

But Putin administration's decision to invade Ukraine has backfired. 

Now Europe and USA are on the same page. Other countries are also imposing sanctions on Russia.









Tracking sanctions against Russia


Searchable data on the latest sanctions and actions taken against Russia




graphics.reuters.com





This does no bode well for Russia.

China can provide relief to Russia but it won't be enough:









Can China’s SWIFT Alternative Give Russia a Lifeline?


Russia’s increasing use of the RMB and connectivity with China’s international payment system will struggle to mitigate the fallout of international sanctions.



thediplomat.com





Putin administration should find a political solution for Ukraine and cut back on its hardline positions. DAMAGE CONTROL factor.

Countries like Somalia and Venezuela also exist and function but is there a point to this kind of existence?

Russia is blessed with largest amount of natural reserves in the world but it is nowhere close to realizing its true potential in growth due to its policies.

Same is true for Iran to lesser extent.

China did not become a giant in vaccum - it benefits from all camps including USA and Europe. China works with everybody.


----------



## CIA Mole

LeGenD said:


> Donald Trump created problems for Iran _*but*_ Europe facilitated Iranian economic activity through INSTEX mechanism:
> 
> _INSTEX, which stands for Instrument in Support of Trade Exchanges, is a payment system that will allow companies to trade with Iran despite harsh US sanctions. It will function as a diplomatic shield allowing the exchange of goods without requiring direct transfers of money between Iran and EU companies._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU mechanism for trade with Iran 'now operational'
> 
> 
> The EU has created a mechanism that will allow European countries to trade with Iran despite US sanctions. The move is an attempt to show good will toward Iran and keep it in the 2015 nuclear deal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amp.dw.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Democrats will be easy on Iran as well:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia says it has received US guarantees over Iran nuclear deal
> 
> 
> In joint news conference, foreign ministers of Russia and Iran contest Western claim Moscow is blocking JCPOA revival.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia will be allowed to trade with Iran due to JCPOA factor:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia says it has received US guarantees over Iran nuclear deal
> 
> 
> In joint news conference, foreign ministers of Russia and Iran contest Western claim Moscow is blocking JCPOA revival.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran is able to conduct trade with multiple countries with different payment mechanisms in use:
> 
> *EXPORTS*
> 
> The top exports of Iran are Crude Petroleum ($12.3B), Ethylene Polymers ($2.63B), Acyclic Alcohols ($1.09B), Iron Ore ($1.06B), and Other Nuts ($630M), exporting mostly to China ($12.1B), India ($3.03B), South Korea ($1.89B), Turkey ($1.5B), and United Arab Emirates ($1.14B).
> 
> *IMPORTS*
> 
> The top imports of Iran are Rice ($1.47B), Corn ($1.42B), Broadcasting Equipment ($1.38B), Soybean Meal ($853M), and Soybeans ($788M), importing mostly from China ($9.61B), United Arab Emirates ($7.08B), India ($3.86B), Turkey ($2.6B), and Brazil ($2.19B).
> 
> 
> 
> https://oec.world/en/profile/country/irn
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't to say that all is well in Iran:
> 
> _COVID-19 expenditure and plummeting oil revenues have increased Iran’s fiscal deficit-to-GDP ratio to its highest in decades. Government revenues April to December 2020 (9M-2020/21) were only 55% of the approved budget for the entire year. Similarly, only 14% of anticipated oil income materialized, due to lower oil export volumes and prices. Meanwhile, the higher health and social assistance costs resulting from the pandemic pushed total expenditures up by 28% YoY. As such, the country’s fiscal deficit is estimated to increase to over 6% of GDP and public debt to surpass 50% in 2020/21.
> 
> Inflationary pressures also increased in 2020/21, as the Iranian rial depreciated due to a limited supply of foreign exchange and heightened economic uncertainty. Inflation resurged to over 48% (YoY) in February 2021. Since April 2020, the currency has lost half of its value because of US sanctions placed on accessing reserves abroad. Hopes of sanctions’ relief after the November US elections led the rial to regain about 15%. Exchange rate volatility and government financing operations had negative spillover in the stock market.
> 
> These recent economic trends have added stress to low-income households and stalled poverty reduction. Poverty increased by 1 percentage point from 2017/18 to 2018/19, reaching 14% before the pandemic. Now, it is estimated that loss in household incomes through the pandemic and the rising cost of living, due to inflation, will push poverty up by 20 percentage points. A range of social protection measures have been introduced in response but, while they partially compensate for the lost incomes, their real value will erode with continued high inflation.
> 
> Iran’s economic outlook hinges on the evolution of the COVID-19 pandemic and the pace of global economic recovery. Recovery to its GDP is projected to be gradual, due to slow vaccination rollout and weak demand from regional trading partners. A decrease in inflation is forecast but, nonetheless, inflation is likely to remain above 20% on average in the medium-term. Coming on top of limited fiscal space and high inflation, economic pressure on poor households will continue. Better targeting of cash transfers can help reduce mitigation costs.
> 
> In the absence of a pick-up in oil revenues, the fiscal deficit is projected to remain high in the medium term. Slow economic recovery would translate into similarly slow growth in non-oil revenues. Higher reliance on bond issuance, especially of short-term bonds, would increase interest payments and amortizations costs. Further issuance of government debt and the sale of public assets could increase financial contagion risks in the stock market and place more stress on the undercapitalized banking sector. _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overview
> 
> 
> Iran’s economy is characterized by the hydrocarbon sector, agriculture and services sectors, and a noticeable state presence in manufacturing and financial services.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldbank.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spike in inflation and poverty fueled protests in Iran not long ago:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2019–2020 Iranian protests - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran has authoritative clerical system so many do not have much say in its affairs.
> 
> Biden administration will give concessions to Iran in exchange for revival of JCPOA.
> 
> - - -
> 
> Russia is much more heavily sanctioned than Iran in the present.
> 
> USA imposed limited-scale but well-calculated sanctions on Russia for annexing Crimeia in 2014. Russian economy dropped from 5th spot to 11th spot in the (2014 - 2021) period consequently.
> 
> Europe continued to facilitate Russia on the other hand. Germany approved Nord Stream 2 with Russia as well.
> 
> But Putin administration's decision to invade Ukraine has backfired.
> 
> Now Europe and USA are on the same page. Other countries are also imposing sanctions on Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tracking sanctions against Russia
> 
> 
> Searchable data on the latest sanctions and actions taken against Russia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> graphics.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This does no bode well for Russia.
> 
> China can provide relief to Russia but it won't be enough:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can China’s SWIFT Alternative Give Russia a Lifeline?
> 
> 
> Russia’s increasing use of the RMB and connectivity with China’s international payment system will struggle to mitigate the fallout of international sanctions.
> 
> 
> 
> thediplomat.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin administration should find a political solution for Ukraine and cut back on its hardline positions. DAMAGE CONTROL factor.
> 
> Countries like Somalia and Venezuela also exist and function but is there a point to this kind of existence?
> 
> Russia is blessed with largest amount of natural reserves in the world but it is nowhere close to realizing its true potential in growth due to its policies.
> 
> Same is true for Iran to lesser extent.
> 
> China did not become a giant in vaccum - it benefits from all camps including USA and Europe. China works with everybody.



As long as a country has good domestic policies and is open to trade it can do relatively well even under full US sanctions

eventually even the poorest subsaharan africa will become as advanced as US today

might take 200 years but it will get there if it remains open

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504703715923705867


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## jhungary

vizier said:


> Since the war is going slow for Russian side and putins demands if are too high behind the scenes on the negotiating table there is the slight possibility of even small usage of tactical nukes by Russia on eastern plains of Ukraine to turn the tides for putins victory. But in that case open usage of tactical nukes will be the norm in every future conflict involving nuclear powers. It will open the gates of hell. Maybe that is what Usa wants as well behind the scenes and provokes Russia to do that(or control putin if he was an installed leader). In that case there should be preemptive measures in place for deterrance against using it. Un voting countries including China should be ready to vote against Russia if tactical nukes are used and impose severe sanctions similar to Eu. That would make whole south Asia vote against as well so it wont be a surprise. Also nuclear debris can spread to Poland even if small nukes are used. SM-3 SM-6 sams would possibly placed on Poland to secure western parts of Ukraine having 500-600km range. We would also see similar sam-missile buildup in Letonia,Estonia bordering nato countries as well if that happens. That would be a strategic loss for Russia even if not for putin that is if tactical nukes are used.



If Russia wanted to use Tactical Nuke, they would have already done so, this is not being stagnate overnight, it's like this since day 14 (actually there are no change in city ownership since day 10 when Kherson felt)

Another point being, US and UK is already militarizing NATO member in the Baltics and Poland. They are getting AD system installed (UK just announced new Air Defence system in Estonia and US deployed 3 PAC-3 in Poland) and and increase of 40,000 US troop beefing up US contingent in Europe to 110,000.

And then you are looking at very high distinct possibility that Sweden and Finland will join NATO.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## MH.Yang

CIA Mole said:


> china is vulnerable right now theres nothing it can do that others cant



Do you really think China is afraid of nuclear war?

We may be the country that is least afraid of and most prepared for nuclear war.
Our national mobilization system is the most efficient and comprehensive.
Our grain reserve ranks first in the world.
Our refuge project began construction in 1969 and now can accommodate about 200 million urban people. 

How about the Asylum Project in USA?
Oh, sorry, I forgot that Americans can't even repair their infrastructure, let alone shelters for hundreds of millions of people. After the nuclear war, when tens of thousands of wealthy Jews and senior officials in the West leave the shelters, hundreds of millions of Chinese will also leave the shelters with complete industrial chains and sufficient food supplies.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504681998086033408

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Where is the money going to come up if China want to buy "EXTRA" oil and gas without printing more.


China wont need to buy extra oil. it will buy what it has the capacity to process. I fit needs more money it will create it like all countries create money I the fractional banking system. 


jhungary said:


> What happened if China buying more than enough USD into settling the debt?


I down understand the question 


jhungary said:


> What can Russia guarantee the transaction in return?


There is not need for a guarantee.


----------



## Apollon

MH.Yang said:


> Do you really think China is afraid of nuclear war?
> 
> We may be the country that is least afraid of and most prepared for nuclear war.
> Our national mobilization system is the most efficient and comprehensive.
> Our grain reserve ranks first in the world.
> Our refuge project began construction in 1969 and now can accommodate about 200 million urban people.
> 
> How about the Asylum Project in USA?
> Oh, sorry, I forgot that Americans can't even repair their infrastructure, let alone shelters for hundreds of millions of people. After the nuclear war, when tens of thousands of wealthy Jews and senior officials in the West leave the shelters, hundreds of millions of Chinese will also leave the shelters with complete industrial chains and sufficient food supplies.
> 
> View attachment 825115
> 
> View attachment 825116
> 
> View attachment 825118
> 
> View attachment 825119



China is not our enemy. We are rivals, not enemies


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## CIA Mole

MH.Yang said:


> Do you really think China is afraid of nuclear war?
> 
> We may be the country that is least afraid of and most prepared for nuclear war.
> Our national mobilization system is the most efficient and comprehensive.
> Our grain reserve ranks first in the world.
> Our refuge project began construction in 1969 and now can accommodate about 200 million urban people.
> 
> How about the Asylum Project in USA?
> Oh, sorry, I forgot that Americans can't even repair their infrastructure, let alone shelters for hundreds of millions of people. After the nuclear war, when tens of thousands of wealthy Jews and senior officials in the West leave the shelters, hundreds of millions of Chinese will also leave the shelters with complete industrial chains and sufficient food supplies.
> 
> View attachment 825115
> 
> View attachment 825116
> 
> View attachment 825118
> 
> View attachment 825119


are there enough shelters for everyone? what about rural areas


once russia is nuked, china can take the north too if a billion people are still alive


----------



## LeGenD

CIA Mole said:


> As long as a country has good domestic policies and is open to trade it can do relatively well even under full US sanctions
> 
> eventually even the poorest subsaharan africa will become as advanced as US today
> 
> might take 200 years but it will get there if it remains open



You missed the point. It is not wise to antagonize entire Western hemisphere with questionable geopolitics. You should be in the good books of Europe at least.

USA will not impose full sanctions on any country unless the objective is to bring its trading activity to standstill. USA can adopt a combination of soft and hard power approaches to this effect in theory. But this is extreme and millions will die of starvation in subject country.

The maximum you will see is how Venezeula was cut to size in spite of having largest reserves of oil in the world.

Globalization matters, therefore.

China is committed to globalization even in the face of bullish American behavior at times.

You mentioned Africa so let me tell you something. Some African countries want to substitute Russia in Europe for supply of gas and other stuff. African countries will welcome European investment with open arms. You will see in time.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


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## CIA Mole

LeGenD said:


> You missed the point. It is not wise to antagonize entire Western hemisphere with questionable geopolitics. You should be in the good books of Europe at least.
> 
> USA will not impose full sanctions on any country unless the objective is to bring its trading activity to standstill. USA can adopt a combination of soft and hard power approaches to this effect in theory. But this is extreme and millions will die of starvation in subject country.
> 
> The maximum you will see is how Venezeula was cut to size in spite of having largest reserves of oil in the world.
> 
> Globalization matters, therefore.
> 
> China is committed to globalization even in the face of bullish American behavior at times.




All those places like venezuela iran north korea can do great if it simply adopts business friendly policies domestically and let capitalism flourish

They can trade with whoever is willing and can trade with them

They can even trade with each other




US sanctions only look scary because these places are already failed states



I think $10k/capita GDP is possible even with US sanctions and it will grow even more overtime as it learns unless it gets Freedomed


----------



## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> Do you really think western countries still have a chance to rebuild the industrial chain? Now, even with China's cooperation, it will take decades to transfer only the low-end industrial chain. If Western countries need to rebuild a complete industrial chain from scratch, will 100 years be enough? Will China give western countries so much time? After the announcement of sanctions, China will use the supply of necessities to attract other resource countries to trade with CNY, and then occupy the whole world trading system. The pain of both sides is not at the same level, and Western countries have no opportunity to rebuild the industrial chain.
> 
> Yes, nuclear weapons. The USA can also threaten China with nuclear weapons. But I'm afraid China can afford nuclear war, while the USA cannot afford nuclear war.


The world is not static the earth is not flat I wonder why chinese think it’s other way around.
Europe used to rely on Russia energy imports, with Germany the most affected.
Even thought Germany says it can cut oil and coal imports from Russia to zero by 2023.
Europe can produce everything if necessary.
Intel opens 2x chip factories for $20 billion USD in Germany.
In few year’s Europe is self sufficient in semiconductor.










Intel-Chip-Fabrik: Wendepunkt für Europa


Intel baut für 17 Milliarden Euro zwei Chipfabriken in Deutschland: Diese Entscheidung ist wegweisend, aus mehreren Gründen.




www.sueddeutsche.de

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## MH.Yang

CIA Mole said:


> are there enough shelters for everyone? what about rural areas
> 
> 
> once russia is nuked, china can take the north too if a billion people are still alive


Of course, it's not enough. There are 1.4 billion people in China. These facilities can only accommodate 200 million people. 
Moreover, these facilities were prepared by the Chinese government to prepare for the nuclear war with the Soviet Union after 1969. Now they are expanded and rebuilt into underground commercial facilities. 
But they can guarantee that we have the most people alive after the nuclear war. After all, other countries do not even have any such facilities.


----------



## vizier

jhungary said:


> If Russia wanted to use Tactical Nuke, they would have already done so, this is not being stagnate overnight, it's like this since day 14 (actually there are no change in city ownership since day 10 when Kherson felt)
> 
> Another point being, US and UK is already militarizing NATO member in the Baltics and Poland. They are getting AD system installed (UK just announced new Air Defence system in Estonia and US deployed 3 PAC-3 in Poland) and and increase of 40,000 US troop beefing up US contingent in Europe to 110,000.
> 
> And then you are looking at very high distinct possibility that Sweden and Finland will join NATO.


Maybe putin thought after day 14 advances would be slow but steady but now getting more sure to use other means each passing day. Everyday the possibility of tactical nukes usage gets higher and additionally against a non nuclear country.

Stationing medium range PAC-3 and similar systems is one thing but stationing SM-3-6 long range abm types close to Polish-Estonia border would be a provocation now for Russia to use non conventionals to speed up the operation but can be a necessisty as an ultimatum to be placed conditionally if tactical nukes are used in Ukraine depending on the situation.

Sweden recently said joining would make the current situation with Russia more tense but ofcourse if tactical nukes are used everyone would naturally want to be under some percievedly secure nuclear umbrella(perhaps not putins) or develop their own nukes.


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> China wont need to buy extra oil. it will buy what it has the capacity to process. I fit needs more money it will create it like all countries create money I the fractional banking system.
> 
> I down understand the question
> 
> There is not need for a guarantee.


1.) If China do not buy extra oil, that did nothing to alleviate Russian situation. At the current situation goes, Russia have a very small oil and gas production to China. For example. In 2020, China import 27.3 billions of oil from Russia bear in mind Russia export 150-200 billions of oil. 

Oil is still a small problem, gas on the other hand....EU import roughly 4 times more gas than China (EU imported 420 millions cubic meters while China is about 120). And Russia export for Oil and Gas industry to China total around 50 billions USD in 2021, and you can't really save Russia if you are talking about 50 billions. When Russia oil and gas industry itself touching 550 billions.

So no, you can't just buy what they buy and think that will do anything. It's not even touching it...

2.) You need to fill up your central bank whenever you send RMB overseas, unless you are thinking of printing some, the only other way is to buy USD (Or Euro, Or GBP) and putting it in your central bank reserve. Otherwise you are hollowing out your Central Bank reserve if, every RMB China send North for Gas and Oil is not being replaced.

3.) Lol. No need for Guarantee? That's not how this work.

Maybe you should try to buy stuff at Woolworths and tell the check out girl your bank card need no money in it to guarantee your purchase, and see if they call the cops......


----------



## CIA Mole

MH.Yang said:


> Of course, it's not enough. There are 1.4 billion people in China. These facilities can only accommodate 200 million people.
> Moreover, these facilities were prepared by the Chinese government to prepare for the nuclear war with the Soviet Union after 1969. Now they are expanded and rebuilt into underground commercial facilities.
> But they can guarantee that we have the most people alive after the nuclear war. After all, other countries do not even have any such facilities.


time to build more then
i heard concrete buildings can withstand nuclear blast if far enough though


----------



## Paul2

MH.Yang said:


> Do you really think China is afraid of nuclear war?
> 
> We may be the country that is least afraid of and most prepared for nuclear war.
> Our national mobilization system is the most efficient and comprehensive.
> Our grain reserve ranks first in the world.
> Our refuge project began construction in 1969 and now can accommodate about 200 million urban people.
> 
> How about the Asylum Project in USA?
> Oh, sorry, I forgot that Americans can't even repair their infrastructure, let alone shelters for hundreds of millions of people. After the nuclear war, when tens of thousands of wealthy Jews and senior officials in the West leave the shelters, hundreds of millions of Chinese will also leave the shelters with complete industrial chains and sufficient food supplies.
> 
> View attachment 825115
> 
> View attachment 825116
> 
> View attachment 825118
> 
> View attachment 825119



I'm proud for our civil engineering. Shenzhen is as new, and modern as it gets, but is building new bomb shelters, and bunkers every year.

People ridiculed it, but now they do not. Especially after covid, 3 murderous cyclones in a row, and now Ukraine.

Shenzhen has _GIANT_ nuclear bunkers under Link City, and Central Walk. Not to say there are bunkers, and shelters in many metro stations, and the metro itself doubles as one. Every big residential development, new district, big mall, or underground structure has mandated shelters.


----------



## jamahir

Viet said:


> Calling a Jew as Nazi is the most rediculous joke ever!



So what is he saying about those pictures ?



Viet said:


> Putin prepares this war over 10y. He clearly stated in multiple speeches what he wants.



1. Please post those articles or vids. Let me see the 
context.

2. Are you saying that the post-2014 change in Ukraine's administration and military had no influence in Putin's decision ?



Viet said:


> Calling NATO expansion, genocide on Russia speaking people or other shits are lame excuses.



1. What is the business of NATO to expand ? To increase its Capitalist vulgarism ?

2. Are you straight out denying that Ukrainian military including its Nazi units have been committing atrocities on Russian speakers since 2014 ?



Viet said:


> Every aggressor needs a reason why he kills people.



And what is the reason of the Western governments whom you so much adore ?



Viet said:


> Some say they have a problem with their parents.



I don't know what is the context of that point of yours but in India and Pakistan parents can kill their children directly through honor killing or via pushing them through stupid college courses where the child does not have any inclination to and ultimately suicides. In USA too the parents have not overthrown the anti-human Capitalist system and given an easier life for their children so it won't be surprising if American children have a problem with their parents.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> .) If China do not buy extra oil, that did nothing to alleviate Russian situation. At the current situation goes, Russia have a very small oil and gas production to China. For example. In 2020, China import 27.3 billions of oil from Russia bear in mind Russia export 150-200 billions of oil.



Yes, people totally forget that Russia cannot physically transport most of its oil to China, unless hauling it on rail.


----------



## CIA Mole

Paul2 said:


> Shenzhen is as new, and modern as it gets, but is building new bomb shelters, and bunkers every year.
> 
> People ridiculed it, but now they do not. Especially after covid, 3 murderous cyclones in a row, and now Ukraine.
> 
> Shenzhen has _GIANT_ nuclear bunkers under Link City, and Central Walk. Not to say there are bunkers, and shelters in many metro stations, and the metro itself doubles as one. Every big residential development, new district, big mall, or underground structure has mandated shelters.


do they have equipment for fallout and access to food?


----------



## jhungary

vizier said:


> Maybe putin thought after day 14 advances would be slow but steady but now getting more sure to use other means each passing day. Everyday the possibility of tactical nukes usage gets higher and additionally against a non nuclear country.
> 
> Stationing medium range PAC-3 and similar systems is one thing but stationing SM-3-6 long range abm types close to Polish-Estonia border would be a provocation now for Russia to use non conventionals to speed up the operation but can be a necessisty as an ultimatum if tactical nukes are used in Ukraine depending on the situation.
> 
> Sweden recently said joining would make the current situation with Russia more tense but ofcourse if tactical nukes are used everyone would naturally want to be under some secure nuclear umbrella(perhaps not putins) or develop their own nukes.


PAC-3 is an Anti-Ballistic Missile System......





__





Patriot PAC-3 Anti-Ballistic Missile System | Military-Today.com


The PAC-3 is another upgrade of the Patriot air defense missile system optimized to counther the threat posed by ballistic missiles. It was developed by Raytheon. The Patriot PAC-3 is in sevice with the US Army and some US allies.



www.military-today.com





And while Sweden PM said on the 8th that joining NATO now may complicate the Russian situation, he also said he welcome discussion of joining NATO, which is most Swedish wanted now. And I probably will bet on Sweden joining NATO rather than not, if the destruction of Ukraine continue.


----------



## The SC

Destruction of an air defense battery of the Ukrainian army:


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Yes, people totally forget that Russia cannot physically transport most of its oil to China, unless hauling it on rail.


Well, we all saw how that goes in Ukraine......

If they do that, China will probably be still be waiting on the oil/gas 1 year + settlement.....

Or someone in a tractor outright stole it from the Russian.......


----------



## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> 1.) If China do not buy extra oil, that did nothing to alleviate Russian situation. At the current situation goes, Russia have a very small oil and gas production to China. For example. In 2020, China import 27.3 billions of oil from Russia bear in mind Russia export 150-200 billions of oil.
> 
> Oil is still a small problem, gas on the other hand....EU import roughly 4 times more gas than China (EU imported 420 millions cubic meters while China is about 120). And Russia export for Oil and Gas industry to China total around 50 billions USD in 2021, and you can't really save Russia if you are talking about 50 billions. When Russia oil and gas industry itself touching 550 billions.
> 
> So no, you can't just buy what they buy and think that will do anything. It's not even touching it...
> 
> 2.) You need to fill up your central bank whenever you send RMB overseas, unless you are thinking of printing some, the only other way is to buy USD (Or Euro, Or GBP) and putting it in your central bank reserve. Otherwise you are hollowing out your Central Bank reserve if, every RMB China send North for Gas and Oil is not being replaced.
> 
> 3.) Lol. No need for Guarantee? That's not how this work.
> 
> Maybe you should try to buy stuff at Woolworths and tell the check out girl your bank card need no money in it to guarantee your purchase, and see if they call the cops......


Russia sell oil and gas to China and buys other products from China, balanced can be made. Russia doesn't have to buy much fromt the west anyway.


----------



## Amliunion

I think the British people should order an immediate inquiry into the competence of their defense secretary.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504520346610847749

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## Paul2

CIA Mole said:


> do they have equipment for fallout and access to food?



Bunkers are NBC rated, with backup power, and air filters. Shelters are not.

No food there as far as I know. It will have to be brought in at the last moment.

Military shelters may be different, civilians don't know anything about them, sans the fact that they exist, and are very different from civilian NBC bunkers.

I mean both military, and civilian shelters are built to house general population, but military ones are at least one tier up, and are staffed, supplied, and held in high readiness even in peacetime.

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## LeGenD

CIA Mole said:


> All those places like venezuela iran north korea can do great if it simply adopts business friendly policies domestically and let capitalism flourish
> 
> They can trade with whoever is willing and can trade with them
> 
> They can even trade with each other
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US sanctions only look scary because these places are already failed states
> 
> 
> 
> I think $10k/capita GDP is possible even with US sanctions and it will grow even more overtime as it learns unless it gets Freedomed


Venezuelan trade situation in 2019:



https://oec.world/en/profile/country/ven











Revisited - Venezuela grapples with endless crisis


An oil producer hard hit by the slump in global prices, Venezuela has seen its economy gradually deteriorate over the past decade, with international economic sanctions aggravating the crisis. The late…




www.france24.com





Venezuelan political system is questionable - it is not being mindful of its geographical realities either. It should rebuild its relations with USA.


----------



## MH.Yang

Paul2 said:


> Shenzhen is as new, and modern as it gets, but is building new bomb shelters, and bunkers every year.
> 
> People ridiculed it, but now they do not. Especially after covid, 3 murderous cyclones in a row, and now Ukraine.
> 
> Shenzhen has _GIANT_ nuclear bunkers under Link City, and Central Walk. Not to say there are bunkers, and shelters in many metro stations, and the metro itself doubles as one. Every big residential development, new district, big mall, or underground structure has mandated shelters.


During the cold war, when the Soviet Union and the USA desperately expanded nuclear weapons, we were desperately digging holes. Because no matter who starts throwing nuclear weapons first, the USA and the Soviet Union will throw them into each other's territory. Of course, we also will be thrown away. Instead of building tens of thousands of nuclear weapons, use the money to dig more holes.
But now we have enough money. Maybe we need not only enough holes, but also enough nuclear weapons.

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## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> Russia sell oil and gas to China and buys other products from China, balanced can be made. Russia doesn't have to buy much fromt the west anyway.


What balance?

You do know Russia is a 1.4 trillion economy, right? Ask yourself this, how much China import oil and gas from Russia, and then we start talking about Balance......


----------



## Viet

jamahir said:


> So what is he saying about those pictures ?
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Please post those articles or vids. Let me see the
> context.
> 
> 2. Are you saying that the post-2014 change in Ukraine's administration and military had no influence in Putin's decision ?
> 
> 
> 
> 1. What is the business of NATO to expand ? To increase its Capitalist vulgarism ?
> 
> 2. Are you straight out denying that Ukrainian military including its Nazi units have been committing atrocities on Russian speakers since 2014 ?
> 
> 
> 
> And what is the reason of the Western governments whom you so much adore ?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what is the context of that point of yours but in India and Pakistan parents can kill their children directly through honor killing or via pushing them through stupid college courses where the child does not have any inclination to and ultimately suicides. In USA too the parents have not overthrown the anti-human Capitalist system and given an easier life for their children so it won't be surprising if American children have a problem with their parents.


nonsense
Vietnamese don’t adore Europeans nor americans. As myself I am a neutral observer so do what you like.
The only people we adore are chinese from where we copy everything although we see them as archenemy.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504651630435729410

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504595564448600072


----------



## CIA Mole

LeGenD said:


> Venezuelan trade situation in 2019:
> 
> 
> 
> https://oec.world/en/profile/country/ven
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Revisited - Venezuela grapples with endless crisis
> 
> 
> An oil producer hard hit by the slump in global prices, Venezuela has seen its economy gradually deteriorate over the past decade, with international economic sanctions aggravating the crisis. The late…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.france24.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Venezuelan political system is questionable - it is not being mindful of its geographical realities either. It should rebuild its relations with USA.


US relations for these places are a bandaid

the path for all countries that wish to be successful is to adopt singapore style policies

eventually your country will be resilient enough that you’re not at the complete mercy of sanctions


----------



## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> During the cold war, when the Soviet Union and the United States desperately expanded nuclear weapons, we were desperately digging holes. Because no matter who starts throwing nuclear weapons first, the United States and the Soviet Union will throw them into each other's territory. Of course, we also will be thrown away. Instead of building tens of thousands of nuclear weapons, use the money to dig more holes.


According to Ready.gov (A prepper like agency in the US) up to 70% of US household have a functioning Fallout shelter (Basement and so on). And each city was designed with enough shelter in place in mind since the 50s. You can know your nearest Fall Out shelter by texting shelter and your postcode. 

US is very big on Doomsday Prepping, unlike what you said only a handful of Jewish elite will come out unharmed. And the American have been doing it since the 50s. And doomsday prepping overtook wedding business into multi billions dollar industry. (last I heard is around 40 billions)






You seems to either forgot or didn't know US has been prepared for a nuclear showdown with Soviet Union since 1950.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504719563723878400

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## jamahir

Viet said:


> nonsense
> Vietnamese don’t adore Europeans nor americans. As myself I am a neutral observer so do what you like.
> The only people we adore are chinese from where we copy everything although we see them as archenemy.



I wasn't talking about all Vietnamese but you, and you say you are a neutral observer. Neutrality in such matters is not good and morally one cannot be on the side of the Nazis and on the side of Western governments.

And since you portray yourself to speak on behalf of all Vietnamese but you are not explicitly condemning the Western governments, surely you can't be a Communist.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504720363472707596

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## MH.Yang

CIA Mole said:


> time to build more then
> i heard concrete buildings can withstand nuclear blast if far enough though


Now there is no risk of nuclear war in the world. Even if crazy like trump, he just wants to play a trade game with China. 

Building and maintaining too many refuge projects will consume too many resources. Now, with this number of refuge projects, we can obtain benefits through the operation of underground commercial squares, warehousing and even mushroom breeding. If there is too much construction, there will be little profit. 

China has a strong capacity for large-scale engineering construction. Once there is a risk of nuclear war in the world situation, we have enough time to expand a sufficient number of refuge projects. Now we don't have to be in such a hurry.


----------



## patero

jhungary said:


> According to Ready.gov (A prepper like agency in the US) up to 70% of US household have a functioning Fallout shelter (Basement and so on). And each city was designed with enough shelter in place in mind since the 50s. You can know your nearest Fall Out shelter by texting shelter and your postcode.
> 
> US is very big on Doomsday Prepping, unlike what you said only a handful of Jewish elite will come out unharmed. And the American have been doing it since the 50s. And doomsday prepping overtook wedding business into multi billions dollar industry. (last I heard is around 40 billions)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You seems to either forgot or didn't know US has been prepared for a nuclear showdown with Soviet Union since 1950.


There is a nice, self sufficient bunker with room for millions in the South Pacifac. It's called New Zealand. There are a lot of Billionaires parking up here at the moment-US, European, Chinese and even a couple of Russian oligarchs. Some very well known names too. Nobody is going to nuke us, they can't even find us on the map.


----------



## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> What balance?
> 
> You do know Russia is a 1.4 trillion economy, right? Ask yourself this, how much China import oil and gas from Russia, and then we start talking about Balance......


We know that trade between China and Russia cannot be balanced. 

In 2021, China's trade deficit with Russia was US $75.8 billion. If China increases the number of imports, the deficit may exceed US $300 billion, or 1.8 trillion CNY. 

Yes, it is impossible for China to allow so many offshore CNY to flow out of Russia every year. Therefore, China may exchange physical dollars & euros for most CNY. As long as it does not exceed 1 trillion CNY a year, I believe the Chinese govt is acceptable.


----------



## tower9

Apollon said:


> Why would China side with a weakling like Russia? Weakness is a virus that easily spreads. Russia shows extreme weakness and China build its entire system on trade with Europe. Russia becomes more and more a problem.


The west made the decision for China by treating it like an enemy.


----------



## LeGenD

Amliunion said:


> She will be called a saboteur!
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504209579009359875


Marina Ovsyannikova is Russian woman.









Marina Ovsyannikova broke the state propaganda machine – others will follow | Denis Kataev


Her anti-war protest on live TV revealed to millions of viewers that the Russian government is not telling them the truth, says Russian journalist Denis Kataev




www.theguardian.com





Post tweets which are easy to understand and make sense.


----------



## Apollon

tower9 said:


> The west made the decision for China by treating it like an enemy.



A rival. I dont see why china would associate itself with weak losers like russia


----------



## tower9

Apollon said:


> A rival. I dont see why china would associate itself with weak losers like russia


No the west made it personal with it’s never ending attacks and viciousness from creating never ending fake news to vilify China to hiring goons to bomb metros and burn civilians in Hong Kong to even possibly starting the Covid pandemic to blame China. It’s way too late for any reversal. The west made China an enemy.


----------



## MH.Yang

patero said:


> There is a nice, self sufficient bunker with room for millions in the South Pacifac. It's called New Zealand. There are a lot of Billionaires parking up here at the moment-US, European, Chinese and even a couple of Russian oligarchs. Some very well known names too. Nobody is going to nuke us, they can't even find us on the map.



I don't know about Russia. But South America is best placed to avoid China's nuclear weapons. New Zealand cannot escape.

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## Apollon

This wont go nuclear. Putin is weak and a typical mafia thug. Someone who is afraid to loses his luxury yachts doesnt go nuclear

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## jhungary

patero said:


> There is a nice, self sufficient bunker with room for millions in the South Pacifac. It's called New Zealand. There are a lot of Billionaires parking up here at the moment-US, European, Chinese and even a couple of Russian oligarchs. Some very well known names too. Nobody is going to nuke us, they can't even find us on the map.


lol, come in with all you lot with those sheep? No thanks........

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## LeGenD

Nuclear war is unlikely.


----------



## kingQamaR

Most of Russia's troops they had on the China border went west to support the Ukrainian operation. With the war not going as planned in Ukraine, it is a possibility that China makes their own move to take back outer Manchuria. That area was China's territory since the Qing dynasty but was taken from them in the 1800's by a colonial Russia.

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## Tamerlane

jhungary said:


> According to Ready.gov (A prepper like agency in the US) up to 70% of US household have a functioning Fallout shelter (*Basement* and so on).



I can’t believe that you called basements fallout shelters. 

Basements have windows to the outside for air and light. They will have zero value as shelters in case of nuclear war.

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## WotTen

Normally you would think an invading army would prioritize three things:
1. Destroy the country's airforce.
2. Destroy the country's air defence systems.
3. Cut off all reinforcement routes.
This is not rocket science and even an armchair general like me knows this.

Russia has been planning this attack for years and surely had the satellite imagery and intelligence network to know where every single Ukrainian aircraft was on the night of the invasion.

Russia certainly had the military capability to blitzkrieg #1 and #3, i.e. destroy the entire Ukrainian airforce within hours and to bomb out every paved road into the country from the rest of Europe. Destroying the Ukrainian air defence system (#2) could then be done leisurely once European reinforcements were denied.

So why didn't Russia do this?

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## Amliunion

LeGenD said:


> Marina Ovsyannikova is Russian woman.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marina Ovsyannikova broke the state propaganda machine – others will follow | Denis Kataev
> 
> 
> Her anti-war protest on live TV revealed to millions of viewers that the Russian government is not telling them the truth, says Russian journalist Denis Kataev
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Post tweets which are easy to understand and make sense.



Marina Ovsyannikova is Russian. However, the women protesting in the Tweet Video I posted is 'Ukrainian'.

I meant that the Ukrainian Women will be considered saboteur by Ukrainian Government, as she wants Zelensky to pay heeds to Russian Concern.

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## jamahir

LeGenD said:


> Marina Ovsyannikova is Russian woman.



You did not understand Amliunion's posted tweet which simply said that just like Marina wanted Putin to end the war, this Ukranian girl came on Ukranian TV wanting Zelensky to listen to Russian concerns and go back to his comedy career instead of remaining the president.



Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504720363472707596



@Viet, see the above ? You tell me why is Zelensky though being a Jew is still supporting the Nazis like the Azov Battalion who are embedded in Ukranian military and administration.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504728609189249024

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## LeGenD

Amliunion said:


> Marina Ovsyannikova is Russian. However, the women protesting in the Tweet Video I posted is 'Ukrainian'.
> 
> I meant that the Ukrainian Women will be considered as saboteur by Ukrainian Government.


Fair enough.

It is helpful to explain some Foreign tweets when sharing them.



jamahir said:


> You did not understand Amliunion's posted tweet which simply said that just like Marina wanted Putin to end the war, this Ukranian girl came on Ukranian TV wanting Zelensky to listen to Russian concerns and go back to his comedy career instead of remaining the president.


Like this.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504729616677756958


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504730493358596113


----------



## patero

WotTen said:


> Normally you would think an invading army would prioritize three things:
> 1. Destroy the country's airforce.
> 2. Destroy the country's air defence systems.
> 3. Cut off all reinforcement routes.
> This is not rocket science and even an armchair general like me knows this.
> 
> Russia has been planning this attack for years and surely had the satellite imagery and intelligence network to know where every single Ukrainian aircraft was on the night of the invasion.
> 
> Russia certainly had the military capability to blitzkrieg #1 and #3, i.e. destroy the entire Ukrainian airforce within hours and to bomb out every paved road into the country from the rest of Europe. Destroying the Ukrainian air defence system (#2) could then be done leisurely once European reinforcements were denied.
> 
> *So why didn't Russia do this?*


One theory is that Mad Vlads yes men didn't think he was actually going to give the order to invade, right up until the last minute. And like all good yes men, they kept telling Putin what he wanted to hear. Meanwhile it was business as usual for the Russian generals, selling fuel and supplies off on the side, embezzling funds meant for upgrades etc. Hence they were completely unprepared when the orders were given. Putin's own paranoia has come back to bite him, he played his hand so close to his chest that he took his own side by suprise.

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## Amliunion

And they Preach on Freedom of Expression, Free Press etc to World:



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504734797574332435

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## Paul2

WotTen said:


> Normally you would think an invading army would prioritize three things:
> 1. Destroy the country's airforce.
> 2. Destroy the country's air defence systems.
> 3. Cut off all reinforcement routes.
> This is not rocket science and even an armchair general like me knows this.
> 
> Russia has been planning this attack for years and surely had the satellite imagery and intelligence network to know where every single Ukrainian aircraft was on the night of the invasion.
> 
> Russia certainly had the military capability to blitzkrieg #1 and #3, i.e. destroy the entire Ukrainian airforce within hours and to bomb out every paved road into the country from the rest of Europe. Destroying the Ukrainian air defence system (#2) could then be done leisurely once European reinforcements were denied.
> 
> So why didn't Russia do this?



Ukraine simply had really a lot of SAMs like any ex-USSR country.

And they know they don't have advanced antiradiation missiles which can bypass "anti-HARM" radar modulation which every late USSR SAM has.

On top of that, Ukrainians apparently been training exactly for such scenario of preserving SAMs under enemy SEAD. Their SAMs are alway moving in the rear. The caught off S300 TEL near Mikolayevsk is a proof of that.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504732843980775424


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504735549629911049


----------



## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> Marina Ovsyannikova is Russian. However, the women protesting in the Tweet Video I posted is 'Ukrainian'.
> 
> I meant that the Ukrainian Women will be considered saboteur by Ukrainian Government, as she wants Zelensky to pay heeds to Russian Concern.



Greed and miscalculated. They wanted it and believed the ukrainians would bow to russia



jamahir said:


> You did not understand Amliunion's posted tweet which simply said that just like Marina wanted Putin to end the war, this Ukranian girl came on Ukranian TV wanting Zelensky to listen to Russian concerns and go back to his comedy career instead of remaining the president.
> 
> 
> 
> @Viet, see the above ? You tell me why is Zelensky though being a Jew is still supporting the Nazis like the Azov Battalion who are embedded in Ukranian military and administration.



Russia is nazi themself. Putin openly facist and the Azov battalion is effective in fighting russian invaders.



Amliunion said:


> And they Preach on Freedom of Expression, Free Press etc to World:
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504734797574332435



We dont need putler Propaganda. We are at war in case you did notice yet


----------



## Amliunion

The Ukrainian government is sharing pictures of civilians that its own missiles killed.



Spoiler: Graphic 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504364531845373954





Apollon said:


> Greed and miscalculated. They wanted it and believed the ukrainians would bow to russia
> 
> 
> 
> Russia is nazi themself. Putin openly facist and the Azov battalion is effective in fighting russian invaders.
> 
> 
> 
> We dont need putler Propaganda. We are at war in case you did notice yet



And US, EU & NATO Propaganda is Kosher. 

It's WAR Germany should stop using Russian GAS!


----------



## MH.Yang

Antonov's factory was destroyed by the Russians. 
I remember all Indian warships use gas turbines from Antonov factory, right? 
I remember an article said that only China's GT25000 can directly replace Ukraine's gas turbines. If gas turbines from the USA or Britain are used, the warship needs to be fully refitted. WOW, that's a lot of money.


----------



## jhungary

Tamerlane said:


> I can’t believe that you called basements fallout shelters.
> 
> Basements have windows to the outside for air and light. They will have zero value as shelters in case of nuclear war.


Basement have window?

What kind of basement is that? And what do you need window for? you want to see dirt outside?

Basement is a generic term for most underground structure. An Apartment building for example can have multiple storey underground parking structure, I am pretty sure the building code for those structure are positive air pressure so air flow out, not in.


----------



## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> The Ukrainian government is sharing pictures of civilians that its own missiles killed.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504364531845373954
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And US, EU & NATO Propaganda is Kosher.
> 
> It's WAR Germany should stop using Russian GAS!



Germany does stop using russian gas by 2023. Russia lost its only income


----------



## Amliunion

Apollon said:


> Germany does stop using russian gas by 2023. Russia lost its only income



Bunch of Hypocrites - We are at War - Russian Media ban but that doesn't apply on GAS. 

Russia will find other alternatives.


----------



## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> Bunch of Hypocrites - We are at War - Russian Media ban but that doesn't apply on GAS.
> 
> Russia will find other alternatives.



Good luck with that.

You also dont understand that Europe simply doesnt want any connection with the russian regime. Putin did not expect that europe crushs any russian presence so quickly.

On a personal matter, im an athlete and i will definitly not compete with russians. So banning russians evrywhere is a good thing.

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## WotTen

Paul2 said:


> Ukraine simply had really a lot of SAMs like any ex-USSR country.



Russia would have had some idea of how many SAMs Ukraine had before Polish/Romanian reinforcements and they could have prepared a barrage of cruise missiles in the initial attack.

Russia has been planning this war for years; it is not something they sleepwalked into on a bored Sunday afternoon.

P.S. As crazy as it sounds, I am thinking maybe some of Putin's generals deliberately screwed up this offensive to get rid of Putin.

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## Amliunion

Apollon said:


> Good luck with that.
> 
> You also dont understand that Europe simply doesnt want any connection with the russian regime. Putin did not expect that europe crushs any russian presence so quickly.
> 
> On a personal matter, im an athlete and i will definitly not compete with russians. So banning russians evrywhere is a good thing.



Europe does what US tells. 

Good Luck with Banning Russian everywhere, this figment of imagination will never be fulfilled.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504745246164459520


----------



## coffee_cup

The risk for German economic recession has become more probable due to Ukraine war.

This has been reported by IMK (Instituts für Makroökonomie und Konjunkturforschung ).

It has now gone from green-yellow to yellow-red.

The war must come to an end... very soon!


----------



## Amliunion

"Any cargo that contains weapons for Ukraine will become a legitimate target for Russia - Lavrov"


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504745505091473433

"Soviet and Russian missile defense systems cannot legally be transferred to third countries, Lavrov said"


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504745902312939523


----------



## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> Europe does what US tells.
> 
> Good Luck with Banning Russian everywhere, this figment of imagination will never be fulfilled.



We dont need USA to know that Putinist Russia is an enemy of Europe.

Oh btw it already is fullfilled. Russis is banned from all sports, culture and economy. They even fired all russian artists here.

As i said i will not compete against russians and many athletes think like me. Thats main reason why russian are kicked out of all sports here. 

Its game over for Russia in Europe

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## Foinikas

FairAndUnbiased said:


> @Foinikas @Apollon
> 
> What do you think about this?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504101781848174592


I know about such stories. A lot of Greeks tried to talk about Ukrainian soldiers bombing or mistreating them in East Ukraine,but the big TV channels wouldn't let them. They would "lose the connection" or the phone line would be cut or they had to go to commercials etc.

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## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> "Any cargo that contains weapons for Ukraine will become a legitimate target for Russia - Lavrov"
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504745505091473433
> 
> "Soviet and Russian missile defense systems cannot legally be transferred to third countries, Lavrov said"
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504745902312939523



Good luck with that Lavrow. We send weapons anyways. Its not like russia could stop it



Foinikas said:


> I know about such stories. A lot of Greeks tried to talk about Ukrainian soldiers bombing or mistreating them in East Ukraine,but the big TV channels wouldn't let them. They would "lose the connection" or the phone line would be cut or they had to go to commercials etc.



Thats laughable...


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> We dont need USA to know that Putinist Russia is an enemy of Europe.
> 
> Oh btw it already is fullfilled. Russis is banned from all sports, culture and economy. They even fired all russian artists here.
> 
> As i said i will not compete against russians and many athletes think like me. Thats main reason why russian are kicked out of all sports here.
> 
> Its game over for Russia in Europe


Russia was not an enemy of Europe. Europe became an enemy of Russia when the Americans and British insisted on not finding a diplomatic solution to this. The Germans didn't want to destroy relations. They wanted to continue getting gas and friendly relations.

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## jhungary

Amliunion said:


> And they Preach on Freedom of Expression, Free Press etc to World:
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504734797574332435


Kind of late to play the "freedom of press" card when we are already sanctioning their TV media personnel,

Shame that we can watch that TV dude in Russia crying over losing his 2 Italian Villa and threaten to nuke Italy and the West unless he is compensated and have his Villa and Ferrari back.

LOL

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## Paul2

WotTen said:


> Russia would have had some idea of how many SAMs Ukraine had before Polish/Romanian reinforcements and they could have prepared a barrage of cruise missiles in the initial attack.
> 
> Russia has been planning this war for years; it is not something they sleepwalked into on a bored Sunday afternoon.
> 
> P.S. As crazy as it sounds, I am thinking maybe some of Putin's generals deliberately screwed up this offensive to get rid of Putin.



Ukraine military was on alert for days preceding the attack. There is no chance they would've let their SAMs stay where they are, when they rebased their airforce to road basing days before the attack.


----------



## Wergeland 2.0

coffee_cup said:


> The risk for German economic recession has become more probable due to Ukraine war.
> 
> This has been reported by IMK (Instituts für Makroökonomie und Konjunkturforschung ).
> 
> It has now gone from green-yellow to yellow-red.
> 
> The war must come to an end... very soon!




A major difference between the period until the end of cold war and period after cold war is how interconnected the world is today.

Before the end of cold war it was way easier to run win-loose strategies. Nowdays its less economic viable.

For the west who has been used to shape the world according to its will, an adaptation to this whole new set of governing principles requires a drastic change of mindset. IMO the west has no choice. Its either adapt or slowly fade away.

conclusion: The West must change its geopolitical strategy from win-loose to win-win policies.

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## Amliunion

Apollon said:


> We dont need USA to know that Putinist Russia is an enemy of Europe.
> 
> Oh btw it already is fullfilled. Russis is banned from all sports, culture and economy. They even fired all russian artists here.
> 
> As i said i will not compete against russians and many athletes think like me. Thats main reason why russian are kicked out of all sports here.
> 
> *Its game over for Russia in Europe*



World is not on Europe. Like you've decided to boycott Russian Athletes - Boycott Russian GAS.


----------



## gambit

WotTen said:


> Normally you would think an invading army would prioritize three things:
> 1. Destroy the country's airforce.
> 2. Destroy the country's air defence systems.
> 3. Cut off all reinforcement routes.
> This is not rocket science and even an armchair general like me knows this.


1. Preferably on the ground.

2. There is a difference between SEAD and DEAD. The 'S' stands for 'Suppression' and the 'D' stands for 'Destruction'.

Each air defense unit is composed of two major units: radar and launcher. And usually they are *PHYSICALLY* apart, from a couple hundred meters to kms.

A SEAD package usually accompanies other strike packages and the primary intent is to prevent the air defense radar from transmitting, hence the word 'suppress'. If the air defense radar do not transmit, the entire air defense unit is *TEMPORARILY* useless. On the other hand, a DEAD package is often a standalone sortie and their intention is to actually destroy both the air defense radar and the air defense missile launcher. This is a *PERMANENT* solution against air defense.

The two concepts overlaps in execution. If something is destroyed, then it is permanently suppressed. So if we can at least kill the radar, then we will at least try. But for the moment, the SEAD priority is to create an air corridor for the main strike package to do its job.

For unknown reasons at this time, the VKS have been undeniably incompetent at S/DEAD against Ukrainian air defense. We do not know if this is planning problem, a human problem, both, or just outright shiddy leadership.

3. Am Air Force, not an Army guy. But I would guess that reinforcement is not available to Ukraine so this is not a major problem for the VKS.

Overall, there seems to be a difference of airpower philosophy between the US and Russia. The US, after the Vietnam War, determined that no strike package will be without SEAD support.



WotTen said:


> So why didn't Russia do this?


My opinion is that Poutine got bad advice from his generals. Not only Poutine but also Xi Jinping since they are in on this invasion. The fact that China so quickly moved to declare some financial support for Russia indicate that Xi knew what Poutine planned for Ukraine and that Xi consulted with his generals as to the viability of the Ukraine invasion. Did Xi told Poutine that the PLA believe the Ukraine invasion would be a quick success? We may never know.

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## EvoluXon

LeGenD said:


> Nuclear war is unlikely.


Its more likely then ever before.. any rogue missile or artillery fire towards NATO country may escalate the war dangerously and Russia cant fight NATO countries alone and may go for first nuclear strike policy..


----------



## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Russia was not an enemy of Europe. Europe became an enemy of Russia when the Americans and British insisted on not finding a diplomatic solution to this. The Germans didn't want to destroy relations. They wanted to continue getting gas and friendly relations.



There cant be friendly relations with Putin.


----------



## Amliunion

jhungary said:


> Kind of late to play the "freedom of press" card when we are already sanctioning their TV media personnel,
> 
> Shame that we can watch that TV dude in Russia crying over losing his 2 Italian Villa and threaten to nuke Italy and the West unless he is compensated and have his Villa and Ferrari back.
> 
> LOL



None playing victims card here. Just *can't stand his holier-than-thou attitude of Genocider of Iraq, Libya and many other countries.*

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## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> World is not on Europe. Like you've decided to boycott Russian Athletes - Boycott Russian GAS.



We give a shit about the world. We care about our security and for that russia gets crushed


----------



## Amliunion

Apollon said:


> Good luck with that Lavrow. We send weapons anyways. Its not like russia could stop it



Yes. Supply weapons until last standing Ukrainian.



Apollon said:


> We give a shit about the world. We care about our security and for that russia gets crushed


Likewise- Russia gives shit about Europe & cares about her safety.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504752671584317441


----------



## Foinikas

Meanwhile in Ukraine

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## Paul2

gambit said:


> Each air defense unit is composed of two major units: radar and launcher. And usually they are *PHYSICALLY* apart, from a couple hundred meters to kms.



And it's impossible to destroy a SAM without a radar by detecting its radar.

Ukraine did lose its radars, including civilian ones, which implies that Russia did fire a salvo of antiradiation missiles at the beginning.

Radar based SAMs would only turn their targeting radars for a few seconds to shoot down a target.

A missile with very powerful active radar like of S300 ones can be basically fired in a general direction of the enemy craft, and it will search, and lock the target on itself without the need for targeting radar as such.

This is why S300 are know to shoot down civvie airliners so often during drills.

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## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> Yes. Supply weapons until last standing Ukrainian.
> 
> 
> Likewise- Russia gives shit about Europe & cares about her safety.



Wrong, Putins entire ideology circles around Europe. He dreams about a eurasian empire under moscow leadership. Since Europe stands united against his facism he lost all that. 

As for weapons, evry ukrainian grandma should have 5 manpads by now. 😁



Foinikas said:


> Meanwhile in Ukraine
> 
> View attachment 825173



How much dignity has a 70 year old dwarf who constantly does beaty surgery and botox treatment? Putins entire appereance is like satire

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## Schutz

Amliunion said:


> And they Preach on Freedom of Expression, Free Press etc to World:
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504734797574332435


That's no loss, 99% of their content is literally bullshit with no genuine verification. It works in the developing world as people are normally not educated and don't fact check but it's audience in the west is people who WANT to believe what they say.

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## Amliunion

Destruction of the communication center of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with the UAV of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504756634098323459


Schutz said:


> That's no loss, 99% of their content is literally bullshit with no genuine verification. It works in the developing world as people are normally not educated and don't fact check but it's audience in the west is people who WANT to believe what they say.



This feeling is mutual about Western Media & it's Audience.



Apollon said:


> Wrong, Putins entire ideology circles around Europe. He dreams about a eurasian empire under moscow leadership. Since Europe stands united against his facism he lost all that.
> 
> As for weapons, evry ukrainian grandma should have 5 manpads by now. 😁



Again that is figment of your imagination.

Wish Ukrainian Grandma's with 5 Manpads each could save their country from returning to Stone Age.

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## Schutz

Amliunion said:


> None playing victims card here. Just *can't stand his holier-than-thou attitude of Genocider of Iraq, Libya and many other countries.*


The problem with people like you is, you have such a specific hated of let's say the U.S.A for example that regardless of their enemy, you support them

Russia, killed million + in Afghanistan in my lifetime, pretty much demolished Chechnya and rebuilt it to it's standards with its desired puppet etc. And this is a story that you can find several times with Russia, Dagestan, Georgia, Tajikistan, Caucasus etc etc etc all recent and majority of them Muslim countries being oppressed.

Yet you fall for the anti western (extremely basic cheap and cliche) propaganda that the likes of RT/PressTV produce and somehow you think Russia's this poor underdog who is fighting for survival against oppression.

Fascist police state that regularly invades it's neighbors. If you defend such a nation you need your head fixed, hence why the handful of nations that back Russia are normally places like Eritrea, Venezuela and north Korea.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504757372555874316


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504755154649862159


----------



## Schutz

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504757372555874316


Yeah what about the 100 cities Russia is shelling... fake news is it ? 

Odious cretin, get a job

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## WotTen

gambit said:


> 3. Am Air Force, not an Army guy. But I would guess that reinforcement is not available to Ukraine so this is not a major problem for the VKS.



Even the US openly admits that NATO were training Ukrainian insurgents since 2014 so Russia would have known that neighboring NATO countries would supply reinforcements into Ukraine. We hear of all the military equipment being supplied to Ukraine since the war started. Russia could have made it a lot harder by destroying all paved roads at the Ukrainian borders to these countries.



gambit said:


> My opinion is that Poutine got bad advice from his generals.



As I wrote in another post, it seems not impossible that some anti-Putin generals deliberately planned this incompetence so the war would go badly and Putin would be deposed.

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## Wood

thetutle said:


> You know what I also think, Russia could very easily turn democratic. who would have thought 15 years ago that Ukraine would be fighting harder than anyone for freedom and democracy?
> 
> It was just a Russian satellite. look how things turned out. The people just became enlightened. I never saw it coming.
> 
> Whats to say that Russia wont have the same process. They are almost the same people as ukranians, they are almost the same people as you and me. Why would they choose to live in a tyranny run by a mafia? Its unsustainable.


I would like Russia to be a democratic Western ally as well. But seems like the majority of Russians outside big cities like Moscow prefer this type of authoritarian rule based on some survey. Perhaps partly because they are fed adulterated propaganda for news and also because they are disillusioned with Western democracy that they experienced in the 90s. Many old people are also naturally conservative and therefore could long for the illusionary super power status held by Soviet Union. Russia is an old country after all. They'll soon have more retired than working ethnic Russians


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Forpost drone footage


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504722315854110743


----------



## Amliunion

Schutz said:


> Yeah what about the 100 cities Russia is shelling... fake news is it ?
> 
> Odious cretin, get a job



Odious cretin, I am posting about Russian side of War. Besides everyone knows what Russian army is doing in Ukraine. 

To be precise, fighting US Proxy War against Ukraine. Russia Goin to win it on ground & you in so call free west media.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504749346549600258

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## Wood

Apollon said:


> Why would China side with a weakling like Russia? Weakness is a virus that easily spreads. Russia shows extreme weakness and China build its entire system on trade with Europe. Russia becomes more and more a problem.


China has more reasons to side with Russia than it has to side with North Korean regime


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Mariupol battle


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504721942389088266

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504641678543671302

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504642240085381123

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## WotTen

Wood said:


> But seems like the majority of Russians outside big cities like Moscow prefer this type of authoritarian rule based on some survey.



I have spoken to Russians even from Moscow who say things actually got worse for a lot of people after the USSR. The rich-poor divide got a lot worse after the collapse of the USSR.

I am not advocating any particular economic system, just saying what I heard some Russians say.

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## jamahir

Foinikas said:


> Meanwhile in Ukraine
> 
> View attachment 825173



The Queen of Ukraine surely.



Apollon said:


> How much dignity has a 70 year old dwarf who constantly does beaty surgery and botox treatment? Putins entire appereance is like satire



1. The picture on the left is from probably 20 years ago.

2. OK, will you accept Putin's tall, 56-year-old friend Bashar al Assad ?







Schutz said:


> Yeah what about the 100 cities Russia is shelling... fake news is it ?
> 
> Odious cretin, get a job



In those 100 cities your Ukranian military is placing artillery and rocketry and bases in school grounds, hospitals and residential areas. Please talk about that.

Let @Amliunion have the job of posting truth from that war, because after all we have you busy building the components of humanity's first Mars crewed settlement while simultaneously sitting in the UN General Assembly bringing peace to humanity on this world.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Mariupol battle 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504693486293073930


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504440205352349700
The purges are starting.  

Those who don't get killed on the frontline will be dismissed and placed under arrest.


----------



## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> Dolt, I am posting truth about War. Besides everyone knows what Russian army is doing in Ukraine. To be precise, fighting US Proxy War against Ukraine. Russia Goin to win it o ground & you in so call free west media.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504749346549600258



What they win? Ash and mud. Destroyed land and insurgence with manpads in evry barn.


----------



## Wood

WotTen said:


> I have spoken to Russians even from Moscow who say things actually got worse for a lot of people after the USSR. The rich-poor divide got a lot worse after the collapse of the USSR.
> 
> I am not advocating any particular economic system, just saying what I heard some Russians say.


Abruptly switching gears to democracy from the fall of Soviet was a big systemic shock for Russians. Suddenly, they had these big state institutions that were in the hands of private owners who took them based on their connections with the party. General public was told that it was every man for himself. There was an apparent dearth in the per capita availability of resources in a country whose citizens were long told that they were a super power. I can only imagine the disillusionment when they were expecting to become like the US overnight, but instead got a hard lesson that democratic institutions take a long time to develop. Before this society could adapt to the change, the secret service guys who ruled Soviet Union were back in power again. The Iron curtain is back to keep them boxed. Only reason that about 20% Russians seem to be pro western is because they are younger and know to use the internet that is beyond RU-net


----------



## Musings

Schutz said:


> The problem with people like you is, you have such a specific hated of let's say the U.S.A for example that regardless of their enemy, you support them
> 
> Russia, killed million + in Afghanistan in my lifetime, pretty much demolished Chechnya and rebuilt it to it's standards with its desired puppet etc. And this is a story that you can find several times with Russia, Dagestan, Georgia, Tajikistan, Caucasus etc etc etc all recent and majority of them Muslim countries being oppressed.
> 
> Yet you fall for the anti western (extremely basic cheap and cliche) propaganda that the likes of RT/PressTV produce and somehow you think Russia's this poor underdog who is fighting for survival against oppression.
> 
> Fascist police state that regularly invades it's neighbors. If you defend such a nation you need your head fixed, hence why the handful of nations that back Russia are normally places like Eritrea, Venezuela and north Korea.



Russia is certainly no angel. This attack on Ukraine is unwarranted and killing innocent people.

However you mention USA as an example and the hate certain individuals have for their policies. I cannot but agree with their hatred anger and annoyance. 
Any nation going into Iraq and demolishing it - killing innocent millions under the pretext of lies - what do you expect? Lets not forget Afghanistan Syria and Libya for a start. 
The way they have introduced "democracy" to Libya is startling. Just google Libya before and after and it will show you what they are capable off. 

This latest conflict opens wounds up and memories. It shows us that white blue eyed people merit a different response from the west. The blatant racism towards paid Indian students by these racist Ukrainians shows me plenty when it comes to what kind of nation it is. 

I stand with ordinary citizens on both sides that are now suffering - lost ones will be buried but those that they leave behind have permanent scars and pain to show. You continue to fall for those copying RT and Press TV - and voicing the propaganda portraying the west as the heroes and legends. You and those that you criticize are both perhaps cut from the same cloth but voicing opposite tones. The truth lies somewhere in between. 

Russians are no angels but dont portray the west and their subservient Ukraine as the victim. You try creating uncertainty and conflict of a nuke state like Russia - dont expect it to take it and bow. Russia aint no Iraq.

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## Apollon

More Stugna P in action


----------



## WotTen

This interview by General Petraeus is really very good.









Russian forces 'clearly have very poor standards,' Gen. Petraeus says | CNN


Retired Gen. David Petraeus, who commanded US forces in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, says the Russians are facing a Ukraine military that is exceptionally determined, surprisingly capable and innovative, and one that is fighting on its home territory for its very survival, writes Peter Bergen.




edition.cnn.com





He gives a sober, professional, fact-based assessment, unlike the obviously exaggerated propaganda in the media by both sides.


----------



## Wood

Amliunion said:


> "Any cargo that contains weapons for Ukraine will become a legitimate target for Russia - Lavrov"
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504745505091473433
> 
> "Soviet and Russian missile defense systems cannot legally be transferred to third countries, Lavrov said"
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504745902312939523


So cool to see Indians who read Cyrillic to understand Russian.


----------



## 8888888888888

Foinikas said:


> There's no doubt Zelensky was a much smarter and beloved politician than Poroshenko. He is much more charismatic compared to the previous 2 presidents who ruled from 2014 onwards.


He is an actor with little to no political experience, he looks more like a figurehead that can act well on TV.

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## Amliunion

Apollon said:


> What they win? Ash and mud. Destroyed land and insurgence with manpads in evry barn.


Europe is not immune from Insurgency with manpads in every barn in near future. The 5 Manpads in Ukrainian Grandma can go to hands of EU's adversaries.


----------



## jamahir

Amliunion said:


> "Any cargo that contains weapons for Ukraine will become a legitimate target for Russia - Lavrov"
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504745505091473433



Why only cargo ? Any military base in the West sending weapons destined for the Ukrainian military, any government or military office in the West recruiting fighters destined to support the Ukranian military should be considered as hostiles and be seen for pre-emptive action by Russian agents.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504579582158118917


----------



## jhungary

Amliunion said:


> None playing victims card here. Just *can't stand his holier-than-thou attitude of Genocider of Iraq, Libya and many other countries.*


Well, honestly, nobody ask you to listen to them or watch their program, if you think they are holier than thou, you don't need to tune in to their broadcast.

What's the point go listen or watch something that will get you all riled up? It's like paying someone to insult you......


----------



## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504618941985046530



Wow - either the Russians have run out of Ammo / or there is a "peace deal" in the works ( Russia is getting closer and closer to that default - and that must be focussing minds in the Kremlin ??? )

Or - the switchblades deliveries have freaked out the Russians as the Switchblades will be used to go after the Russian artillery units.

Beginning of the end ????

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## Amliunion

jhungary said:


> Well, honestly, nobody ask you to listen to them or watch their program, if you think they are holier than thou, you don't need to tune in to their broadcast.
> 
> What's the point go listen or watch something that will get you all riled up? It's like paying someone to insult you......



I am calling Spade a spade.

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## Wood

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504440205352349700
> The purges are starting.
> 
> Those who don't get killed on the frontline will be dismissed and placed under arrest.


Brave men like him have helped keep Ukraine afloat in this war of conquest. I hope that there are more like him who can stay hidden


----------



## Ali_Baba

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504692403227312137



Looks like the Russians are trying to knock out the support infrastructure/repair capabilities for the Ukrainian Airforce ?


----------



## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> Europe is not immune from Insurgency with manpads in every barn in near future. The 5 Manpads in Ukrainian Grandma can go to hands of EU's adversaries.



No risk no fun. Thats what putin thought wrong. He believed europe shrugs it off. Now he gets crushed



jamahir said:


> Why only cargo ? Any military base in the West sending weapons destined for the Ukrainian military, any government or military office in the West recruiting fighters destined to support the Ukranian military should be considered as hostiles and be seen for pre-emptive action by Russian agents.



Good luck on that. Putin was even afraid to lose his little yacht and brought it home before he started. You believe such a weak minded little man dares to attack NATO? What will happen with his yacht then?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Mariupol battle 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504694253062176786

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504637806915858433
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504640817637601284



These troops aren't supposed to be on the frontline to begin with,Rosvgardia's role in Ukraine was to occupy territories Russians conquered,maintain order there and supress any resistance and protests from the population,but Russians are sending them to the frontline. Total incompetence. 

Looking at their equipment,they are probably special forces from the Rosvgardia.... can't imagine the rest of the units.


----------



## Ali_Baba

The SC said:


> Destruction of an air defense battery of the Ukrainian army:



Temp topic diversion : And that is how the S400 of India can be handled - there have been enough references to the S300 on this site to show how to handle the S400s.


----------



## jhungary

Amliunion said:


> I am calling Spade a spade.


i am calling spade a spade too, that does not mean I want to watch people on the opposite side and get all riled up. 

As I said, it's like you pay someone to insult you.



Vergennes said:


> These troops aren't supposed to be on the frontline to begin with, Rosvgardia's role in Ukraine was to occupy territories Russians conquered,maintain order there and supress any resistance and protests from the population,but Russians are sending them to the frontline. Total incompetence.
> 
> Looking at their equipment,they are probably special forces from the Rosvgardia.... can't imagine the rest of the units.


Watched this video this morning (my time) when I first saw it, I know these people aren't really professional. Bunched up behind Bullet Magnet (The APC), that is the first day *NOT TO DO* list. I don't think even our National Guard brother would do that.


----------



## Apollon

Here comes a very big problem for putin personal. We know had extensive botox treatment. Botox is produced in the EU and the company ended all supply to Russia yesterday. Without his regular botox injections, his face will start to fall apart basicly.









Russia President Vladimir Putin Won't Be Able To Use Botox Due To Western Sanctions: Report


The rumours about Putin's Botox use started after his visit to Kyiv in October 2011 as Russia's Prime Minister, where he "sported a massive blue-and-yellow bruise around his eye".




www.ndtv.com

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## Ali_Baba

Amliunion said:


> "Any cargo that contains weapons for Ukraine will become a legitimate target for Russia - Lavrov"



There is nothing Russia can or will do on this cargo - while they are in NATO - no one is buying those idle threats.

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Good luck on that. Putin was even afraid to lose his little yacht and brought it home before he started. You believe such a weak minded little man dares to attack NATO? What will happen with his yacht then?



Well, I can't read Putin's mind but surely his advisors will say to him that NATO weapons are killing Russians so why not nip the problem in the bud.



Vergennes said:


> These troops aren't supposed to be on the frontline to begin with,Rosvgardia's role in Ukraine was to occupy territories Russians conquered,maintain order there and supress any resistance and protests from the population,but Russians are sending them to the frontline. Total incompetence.
> 
> Looking at their equipment,they are probably special forces from the Rosvgardia.... can't imagine the rest of the units.



I agree. The mighty French army will surely conquer Russia.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504778413223129104

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## Paul2

Wood said:


> So cool to see Indians who read Cyrillic to understand Russian.



We have a few users here with no, or close to no post history suddenly appearing in this topic, posting twitter feeds nonstop.

My suspicion, we have "professionals" here

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## Wood




----------



## Amliunion

Apollon said:


> No risk no fun. Thats what putin thought wrong. He believed europe shrugs it off. Now he gets crushed



Take Risk by stopping Russian GAS. 

As of now you are financing Russia's War Against Ukraine. As of now, Ukranians gets Orphanaged, Exodus, etc., happening. In the meantime, Russia is winning War & West Information WareFare.



Ali_Baba said:


> Looks like the Russians are trying to knock out the support infrastructure/repair capabilities for the Ukrainian Airforce ?



In words of Ukrainian- Putin is losing the War.

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## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504440205352349700
> The purges are starting.
> 
> Those who don't get killed on the frontline will be dismissed and placed under arrest.



It is the same mistake that Stalin made when he started to get rid of the senior Russian military leadership as he did not trust them .. and it ended up costing Stalin a lot - as it will be Putin..


----------



## Wood

Paul2 said:


> We have a few users here with no, or close to no post history suddenly appearing in this topic, posting twitter feeds nonstop.
> 
> My suspicion, we have "professionals" here


Of course. I'm surprised that people would think obscure corner of the internet matters in any significant way


----------



## coffee_cup

Ali_Baba said:


> It is the same mistake that Stalin made when he started to get rid of the senior Russian military leadership as he did not trust them .. and it ended up costing Stalin a lot - as it will be Putin..



What was the name again of that top Ukranian negotiator who was recently brutly killed by Ukranians in the broad day light because "leadership did not trust him"?


----------



## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> Take Risk by stopping Russian GAS.
> 
> As of now you are financing Russia's War Against Ukraine. As of now, Ukranians gets Orphanaged, Exodus, etc., happening. In the meantime, Russia is winning War & West Information WareFare.
> 
> 
> 
> In words of Ukrainian- Putin is losing the War.




We took 380 billion of russias assets. Amigo...russia delivers gas for free basicly at moment.

Btw in last week alone 17.000 MANPAD weapons were delivered to Ukraine. Thats unimaginable amount of weapons and shows why Russia is lost.


----------



## Vergennes

Apollon said:


> We took 380 billion of russias assets. Amigo...russia delivers gas for free basicly at moment.
> 
> Btw in last week alone 17.000 MANPAD weapons were delivered to Ukraine. Thats unimaginable amount of weapons and shows why Russia is lost.



"Of course Putin planned everything and knew about the west's response!!".

That is why Russians are so generous and left us $400 billion of their reserves.

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## Wood

Good primer on Russian gas pipelines


----------



## jamahir

Paul2 said:


> We have a few users here with no, or close to no post history suddenly appearing in this topic, posting twitter feeds nonstop.
> 
> My suspicion, we have "professionals" here



I agree. Professionals who are posting NATO twitter feeds and "I stand with Ukraine" stuff.


----------



## EvoluXon

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504579582158118917


Tired of these fake independent sources without any reference just posting a tweet.. .yeah on keyboard russia has wiped out of the world map ..cheers ...but in reality Russians are capturing territories in ukraine day by day and western sanctions against russia have turned out to b 0% effective as of now..

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## Amliunion

Apollon said:


> We took 380 billion of russias assets. Amigo...russia delivers gas for free basicly at moment.



Germany pays Russia for the Gas which it imports from Russia. Did West made any investments in Russia? These 380 Billions, sooner or later will be returned to Russia. These Sanctions are not for lifetime.

Someday Peace will Prevail.


----------



## Apollon

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504706312667643931


----------



## Amliunion

jhungary said:


> i am calling spade a spade too, that does not mean I want to watch people on the opposite side and get all riled up.
> 
> As I said, it's like you pay someone to insult you.


It's like someone feels insulted with what I posted about the so call Free West Press.

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## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> Germany pays Russia for the Gas which it imports from Russia. Did West made any investments in Russia? These 380 Billions, sooner or later will be returned to Russia.



It will take 6 years of gas delivery to compensate those 380 billion €. Considering the fact that EU wont buy russian gas from 2023 onwards, Russia is screwed.

On a sidenote we have a russia guest student here and decided to boycott class when he is there. The pressure was big enough for him to leave. As i said Russia is crushed out of Europe. In economy,sports, culture. They fire even ballet dancers and musicians.


----------



## Vergennes

EvoluXon said:


> Tired of these fake independent sources without any reference just posting a tweet.. .yeah on keyboard russia has wiped out of the world map ..cheers ...but in reality Russians are capturing territories in ukraine day by day and western sanctions against russia have turned out to b 0% effective as of now..



Everything coming from mainstream Russian medias is just BS anyways,they are the kind of people claiming 80% of Ukraine has been "demilitarized",lmao.

Their invasion is stalling,they are suffering horrific losses,they haven't been able to make much more progress since the initial gains of the first days.... BTW Kyiv was supposed to fall in the first days.... yet is still standing. 

So do you expect sanctions to make Russian economy collapse in 1 day ? It is on the long term. BTW the ruble collapsed and the Moscow stock exchange still remains closed.... Russians aren't ready for the catastrophe that's incoming.

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## Apollon

Vergennes said:


> Everything coming from mainstream Russian medias is just BS anyways,they are the kind of people claiming 80% of Ukraine has been "demilitarized",lmao.
> 
> Their invasion is stalling,they are suffering horrific losses,they haven't been able to make much more progress since the initial gains of the first days.... BTW Kyiv was supposed to fall in the first days.... yet is still standing.
> 
> So do you expect sanctions to make Russian economy collapse in 1 day ? It is on the long term. BTW the ruble collapsed and the Moscow stock exchange still remains closed.... Russians aren't ready for the catastrophe that's incoming.



You forgot to mention that 350 companies left Russia and russia has no aviation anymore.

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## Amliunion

Apollon said:


> It will take 6 years of gas delivery to compensate those 380 billion €. Considering the fact that EU wont buy russian gas from 2023 onwards, Russia is screwed.
> 
> On a sidenote we have a russia guest student here and decided to boycott class when he is there. The pressure was big enough for him to leave. As i said Russia is crushed out of Europe. In economy,sports, culture. They fire even ballet dancers and musicians.



I reiterate that Germany is paying Russia for Gas, it's not been offset from the 380 Billion €.  I challenge you to post a link to prove it. Russia can diversify it's Gas/Fuel exports.

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## Wood

Vergennes said:


> Everything coming from mainstream Russian medias is just BS anyways,they are the kind of people claiming 80% of Ukraine has been "demilitarized",lmao.
> 
> Their invasion is stalling,they are suffering horrific losses,they haven't been able to make much more progress since the initial gains of the first days.... BTW Kyiv was supposed to fall in the first days.... yet is still standing.
> 
> So do you expect sanctions to make Russian economy collapse in 1 day ? It is on the long term. BTW the ruble collapsed and the *Moscow stock exchange still remains closed*.... Russians aren't ready for the catastrophe that's incoming.


This is surprising. Does Putin plan to keep the stock exchange closed until the end of war?! Because the sanctions are not going away unless there is some level of peace. Peace seems to be a long way away.


----------



## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> I reiterate that Germany is paying Russia for Gas, it's not been offset from the 380 Billion €.  I challenge you to post a link to prove it.FYI, by 2023, Russia can diversify it's Gas imports. 😊



Its free to do whatever it wants. Doesnt change the fact that its wiped out in Europe. The new iron curtain is more massive than it was in cold war. 

Thats putins core problem, without acess to Europe...Russia is just another poor shithole with broken down infrastructure and 6 months winter. 

As i said, for us its easy. Make life for average russian hell and make Ukraine a complete desaster for Russians. So far its working great.

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## beijingwalker

European economy will be greatly battered in this crisis. Russia needs to switch to the east, most of Russian lands are in Asia, so are most of its allies.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504789929968218161

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## Apollon

Wood said:


> This is surprising. Does Putin plan to keep the stock exchange closed until the end of war?! Because the sanctions are not going away unless there is some level of peace. Peace seems to be a long way away.



What is he supposed to do? Russian stocks collapsed to zero value. As soon he openes the exchange, he makes a complete loss of russian companies. He has to keep it closed.

The sanctions will stay anyway as long Putin is in power. Even if he stops the war now, there wont be agreements for political reasons.

The sheer amount of russian assets wiped out is unimaginable

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## Amliunion

Apollon said:


> Its free to do whatever it wants. Doesnt change the fact that its wiped out in Europe. The new iron curtain is more massive than it was in cold war.
> 
> Thats putins core problem, without acess to Europe...Russia is just another poor shithole with broken down infrastructure and 6 months winter.
> 
> As i said, for us its easy. Make life for average russian hell and make Ukraine a complete desaster for Russians. So far its working great.


Again where is the link which says Germany Gas import from Russia is been offset by 380 Billion €?


----------



## beijingwalker

China calls for Shanghai Cooperation Organisation to play role in Ukraine conflict​








China calls for Shanghai Cooperation Organisation to play role in Ukraine


Foreign Minister Wang Yi says the Beijing-led group can play a more active role in dealing with the crisis.




www.scmp.com

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504706312667643931



"The Ilovaisk massacre" ? Something like "The Hama massacre" from Syria ?  



Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504789929968218161



@Viet, here's another one for your Jewish Zelensky to think on.


----------



## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> Again where is the link which says Germany Gas import from Russia is been offset by 380 Billion €?



Dude, if i take 380 billion from you and then pay you few bucks evry now and then...even you will understand you get screwed.


----------



## Amliunion

Spoiler: Graphic 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504791365191876611]





Apollon said:


> Dude, if i take 380 billion from you and then pay you few bucks evry now and then...even you will understand you get screwed.



You are clutching at straws. The reality is Germany & other EU countries sponsoring Russia war against Ukraine.


----------



## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504791365191876611]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are clutching at straws. The reality is Germany & other EU countries sponsoring Russia war against Ukraine.



Sure it should be cut to zero. But the problem of 16 years weak women merkel as leader cant be swiped away over night. Only good thing is, thag merkel sees her legacy and politics destroyed during her life time. 

That aside, Russia doesnt exist as player in Europe anymore and as it looks now its more than possible that Germany is plain and simple forced to stop russian gas no matter the cost. Germany was already forced to change its russia politics. SWIFT ban, weapon deliveries ecf where a taboo too. Next will be the gas. This can also be done by ukraine itself. Blow up the pipelines, poland can destroy nordstream 1. That way we help the germans in their decission making



jamahir said:


> "The Ilovaisk massacre" ? Something like "The Hama massacre" from Syria ?
> 
> 
> 
> @Viet, here's another one for your Jewish Zelensky to think on.



All that matters is, that another russian commander was send home. If it boosts ukraine moral by smearing his name and family, so be it.

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## That Guy

Amliunion said:


> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504791365191876611]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are clutching at straws. The reality is Germany & other EU countries sponsoring Russia war against Ukraine.


You have no idea what you're talking about.

Russia is making $1 billion a day from oil sale to Europe, right? They're losing tens of billions a day financing this war, and have lost hundreds of billions due to sanctions.

They're in the red, and once this war is over, there are gonna be a lot of returning soldiers asking where their pay is.

Again, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Logged in just to point out just how absurd this claim is that every mental slave in this thread seem to keep making.

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## Clutch

WotTen said:


> Normally you would think an invading army would prioritize three things:
> 1. Destroy the country's airforce.
> 2. Destroy the country's air defence systems.
> 3. Cut off all reinforcement routes.
> This is not rocket science and even an armchair general like me knows this.
> 
> Russia has been planning this attack for years and surely had the satellite imagery and intelligence network to know where every single Ukrainian aircraft was on the night of the invasion.
> 
> Russia certainly had the military capability to blitzkrieg #1 and #3, i.e. destroy the entire Ukrainian airforce within hours and to bomb out every paved road into the country from the rest of Europe. Destroying the Ukrainian air defence system (#2) could then be done leisurely once European reinforcements were denied.
> 
> So why didn't Russia do this?



I think it's a huge miscalculation by the Russians. They thought that the Ukrainians will not put up a significant resistance and they will disintegrate as the Russians advanced. The Russian planning was for a short decisive invasion which spared most of Ukraine's infrastructure. 

Apparently, the Russians got that all wrong. The Ukrainians did put up a reasonable resistance and were backed up by the West to levels not seen in the recent history.

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## Amliunion

That Guy said:


> You have no idea what you're talking about.
> 
> Russia is making $1 billion a day from oil sale to Europe, right? They're losing tens of billions a day financing this war, and have lost hundreds of billions due to sanctions.
> 
> They're in the negative.
> 
> Again, you have no idea what you're talking about.
> 
> Logged in just to point out just how absurd this claim is that every mental slave in this thread seem to keep making.



The Economist @Apollon been saying Russian GAS Supply to Germany been nullified by 380 Billion € that been sanctioned by West. I am asking him to prove that.


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> All that matters is, that another russian commander was send home. If it boosts ukraine moral by smearing his name and family, so be it.



Very NATO behavior.


----------



## Wood




----------



## reflecthofgeismar

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504789929968218161


Well, if they can fight as the top notch Waffen-SS divisions (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 9th, 10th, 12th), then they are - mostly man for man - the better fighters.


----------



## Amliunion

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504796096052310019

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## jhungary

Amliunion said:


> It's like someone feels insulted with what I posted about the so call Free West Press.


From where I am sitting, it seems like the opposite is true.

Well, at least I am not the one who complaint about "Free press" banning RT....lol

But then you don't really need to reply to me if you don't feel like it. Me? I am just sad I cannot watch any more of that Russian dude crying on live TV bitching about how he lost his villa up in Italy. 

I mean, man losing house and cry over on live TV, if that is not entertainment, then I don't know what is.

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## That Guy

jamahir said:


> Very NATO behavior.


It's war.

If it was a Ukrainian commander, you'd be cheering.

Don't throw stones in your glass house.

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## Amliunion

jhungary said:


> From where I am sitting, it seems like the opposite is true.
> 
> Well, at least I am not the one who complaint about "Free press" banning RT....lol


I pointed out Free Press is Oxymoron. Since then someone is Riled up. Lol.


----------



## Viet

jamahir said:


> "The Ilovaisk massacre" ? Something like "The Hama massacre" from Syria ?
> 
> 
> 
> @Viet, here's another one for your Jewish Zelensky to think on.


That’s a problem for Putin.
Because Zelensky is a Jew the world is with him. War criminal Putin only has backing by countries as Venezuela, Burma and Cuba. Communist China backs him but we will have to wait and see if chinese will deliver weapons, foods, materials to Putin’s war effort.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504793432052666368

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## Hassan Al-Somal

*MoD Russia*, [3/18/2022 3:15 AM]
*Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry*

▫️ The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation.

▫️ *The grouping of troops of the Lugansk People's Republic with the fire support of the Russian Armed Forces liberated more than 90 percent of the territory of the republic. *

▫️ Currently, the units of the Lugansk People's Republic are eliminating scattered groups of nationalists on the southern outskirts of Rubezhnoye liberated settlement.

▫️ In the Donetsk People's Republic, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue their successful offensive in the northern direction.
During the day, they took control of Zolotaya Niva, Novodonetsky, Novomayorskoye and Prechistovka. The advance was 16 kilometers. 

▫️ In Mariupol, units of the Donetsk People's Republic, with the support of the Russian Armed Forces, narrow the encirclement and fighting against nationalists in the city center.

💥 During the night, aviation and air defence means of the Russian Aerospace Forces shot down 6 more Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles, including 1 Bayraktar TB-2.

✈️*💥Operational-tactical and army aviation hit 81 military assets of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Among them: 4 multiple launch rocket system, 3 command posts, 8 ammunition depots and 28 areas of military equipment concentration. *

💥In total, 183 unmanned aerial vehicles, 1,406 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 138 multiple launch rocket systems, 535 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,197 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing
@mod_russia_en

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504799028680269835

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## jhungary

Can you see what is wrong about the Ka-52 and Mi-28 in this video?






I have talked to an Apache Pilot and I am going to tell you what is wrong with how these 2 chopper attack and that hint a major set back with the Russian Military.

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## Viet

One lesson one can learn from this war is never give up nuclear weapons.

Ukraine gave up nuclear arsenals in exchange for Russia security assurance.

This assurance is not worth a penny.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504799939561463815

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## gambit

Am willing to go out on a limb here...

Russian troops cannot count on VKS support any more. As long as the Ukrainian Air Force can sortie, even scant numbers they are, they will be able to keep whatever VKS fighters mostly away from Ukrainian ground forces and the VKS fighters will resort to civilian targets bombing, which is atrocious. Civilian targets are stationary, highly visible, colorful, undefended, and the VKS fighters can move up to a higher and safer altitude. But attacking civilian targets means Russia knew the Ukrainians would be using them for shelters, so was that the plan? Collapsing buildings compels other civilians to become rescuers, further demoralizing the civilian population.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504793432052666368



- Disarmament - _why - so that Russia can try this again with a weaker Ukraine ? I don't see Ukraine agreeing to restrict their security and defence of their country after what Russia has just done._
- De-Nazification - _what - all "20" of them Nazis? _


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504801130492137472

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## gambit

jhungary said:


> Can you see what is wrong about the Ka-52 and Mi-28 in this video?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have talked to an Apache Pilot and I am going to tell you what is wrong with how these 2 chopper attack and that hint a major set back with the Russian Military.


Three seconds in...I guessed the tactic when he nosed up...And it is shiddy flying.


----------



## Vergennes

Ali_Baba said:


> - Disarmament - _why - so that Russia can try this again with a weaker Ukraine ? I don't see Ukraine agreeing to restrict their security and defence of their country after what Russia has just done._
> - De-Nazification - _what - all "20" of them Nazis? _



Ukraine's neutrality is possible why not,given there are guarantees provided by external states.

Demilitarization is contrary to the very principles of a state,this one is not negotiable.

"Denazification" ? Who ? how ? By who ? This term is vast and means pretty much nothing.

"Status of the donbass" is pretty much complicated ? What do the russians want ? Strong autonomy ?

Ukraine would never accept those stupid demands,Russians are pushing their very first demands since even before the invasion,but they are acting as if they were in position of force while their campaign has been so far a catastrophe.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504802185028243459

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ali_Baba

jhungary said:


> Can you see what is wrong about the Ka-52 and Mi-28 in this video?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have talked to an Apache Pilot and I am going to tell you what is wrong with how these 2 chopper attack and that hint a major set back with the Russian Military.



They dont want to get any closer to the target than that what - ie afraid of Manpads - so they are going nose up - hoping the rockets can travel further and hit the intended target.

Basically wasting ammunition ...


----------



## jamahir

Viet said:


> That’s a problem for Putin.
> Because Zelensky is a Jew the world is with him. War criminal Putin only has backing by countries as Venezuela, Burma and Cuba. Communist China backs him but we will have to wait and see if chinese will deliver weapons, foods, materials to Putin’s war effort.



1. "The world" is with him ? Yet you list some countries which are not and you have not included Syria which is ready to send soldiers to help the Russians.

2. To put across a technicality China is not a Communist society and I say that as a Communist. But yes let's see if China will send things towards Russia's war effort.



That Guy said:


> It's war.
> 
> If it was a Ukrainian commander, you'd be cheering.
> 
> Don't throw stones in your glass house.



Let's first see if the Ukranian government has the claim of legitimacy. Throwing around words like "The Ilovaisk massacre" is very BBC, very CNN.

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> Three seconds in...I guessed the tactic when he nosed up...And it is shiddy flying.


Nothing got pass you fly boy isn't it......


----------



## jamahir

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504802185028243459



@That Guy, is this the Ukranian legitimacy ?


----------



## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> They dont want to get any closer to the target than that what - ie afraid of Manpads - so they are going nose up - hoping the rockets can travel further and hit the intended target.
> 
> Basically wasting ammunition ...


Yeah, that's an old tactic for avoiding Manpad. This is an old Assault Chopper tricks we used back in the 70s. Called Hit and Climb

Notice that he shoot the rocket when he is nose up, that is basically for the rocket to glide further and also give them the vertical axis to avoid Manpad lock so he can bug out as soon as he fired.

But doing so will greatly reduce the accuracy.

That also mean the chopper jock knows the ground is hot, which mean either they lost the ability to deal with AA. Or they don't even know where the AA were. Both of which were alarming for the Russian.


----------



## coffee_cup

That Guy said:


> You have no idea what you're talking about.
> 
> Russia is making $1 billion a day from oil sale to Europe, right? They're losing tens of billions a day financing this war, and have lost hundreds of billions due to sanctions.
> 
> They're in the red, and once this war is over, there are gonna be a lot of returning soldiers asking where their pay is.
> 
> Again, you have no idea what you're talking about.
> 
> Logged in just to point out just how absurd this claim is that every mental slave in this thread seem to keep making.


First of all, there is absolutely no disputing that Russia is spending a lot of money for this war.

BUT

Let me repeat my earlier question which I put several hundred pages ago.

Do you have an authentic source which supports your claim that Russia loses 10s of billions of $$ a DAY due to this war?

Lets just analyse a bit and do a little calculation:

If Russia is losing 10s of billions a day, it would mean at least 20 $ billion a day (otherwise it is 10 and not 10s of billions).

Now the war is in its 22nd day.

That would mean Russia has already spent/lost MINIMUM of 440 $ billion? 



Where the heck are they getting this money from? And above all, does that make any sense?

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## Wood

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504793432052666368


How do you quantify something like de-nazification? How can any leader agree to disarmament? He just wants to continue bombing

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## coffee_cup

Amliunion said:


> The Economist @Apollon been saying Russian GAS Supply to Germany been nullified by 380 Billion € that been sanctioned by West. I am asking him to prove that.



No Germany is not paying for Gas from sanctioned money.

That money is just frozen, which means if in future things settle down and sanctions lifted, it will be repaid.

Payments made for gas are different.

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## Wergeland 2.0

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504801130492137472



boys gonna be boys


----------



## coffee_cup

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504793432052666368



So basically no flexibility and no change in demands?


----------



## Wood

gambit said:


> Am willing to go out on a limb here...
> 
> Russian troops cannot count on VKS support any more. As long as the Ukrainian Air Force can sortie, even scant numbers they are, they will be able to keep whatever VKS fighters mostly away from Ukrainian ground forces and the VKS fighters will resort to civilian targets bombing, which is atrocious. Civilian targets are stationary, highly visible, colorful, undefended, and the VKS fighters can move up to a higher and safer altitude. But attacking civilian targets means Russia knew the Ukrainians would be using them for shelters, so was that the plan? Collapsing buildings compels other civilians to become rescuers, further demoralizing the civilian population.


If you are given a direct order to bomb a building that you suspect is civilian, will you obey? I'm curious about what soldiers think is ethical in this scenario. Question open to all military professionals in this forum who are willing to respond. Average civilians like me are curious


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504796712292032512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504795733567983616
Ukraine pays respects to its heroes


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504480861848162324

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Viet

jamahir said:


> 1. "The world" is with him ? Yet you list some countries which are not and you have not included Syria which is ready to send soldiers to help the Russians.
> 
> 2. To put across a technicality China is not a Communist society and I say that as a Communist. But yes let's see if China will send things towards Russia's war effort.
> 
> 
> 
> Let's first see if the Ukranian government has the claim of legitimacy. Throwing around words like "The Ilovaisk massacre" is very BBC, very CNN.


Yes the world is with the people of Ukraine. No matter how this war plays out Russia is a big loser.


----------



## Zhukov

Wood said:


> If you are given a direct order to bomb a building that you suspect is civilian, will you obey? I'm curious about what soldiers think is ethical in this scenario. Question open to all military professionals in this forum who are willing to respond. Average civilians like me are curious


As far as the soldiers i know. They will carry any order they are given. The Moral Ethics of the order they carry out come out in thr form of PTSDs , Sucides , Isolated behavior and other Mental issues afterwards.
And that is probably true with soldiers of any professional army.

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## Wood

ahmadnawaz22 said:


> As far as the soldiers i know. They will carry any order they are given. The Moral Ethics of the order they carry out come out in thr form of PTSDs , Sucides , Isolated behavior and other Mental issues afterwards.
> And that is probably true with soldiers of any professional army.


I was expecting the opposite. Maybe so because I've never been in conflict zones


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Mariupol battle update


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504806341629546500


----------



## jhungary

Wood said:


> If you are given a direct order to bomb a building that you suspect is civilian, will you obey? I'm curious about what soldiers think is ethical in this scenario. Question open to all military professionals in this forum who are willing to respond. Average civilians like me are curious


Let me tell you a story. This is not about medal, or doing anything about bravery. This is about how I get my first strike as a Second Lieutenant. (3 strike and you will get a other than honorable discharge)

In 2003, I was a 2LT leading a platoon trying to make our way to Baghdad. We were running a convoy, and my order is we don't stop for shit until we reach the next Phaseline (a progress line of sort where you mark the advance)

We were going off Highway 7 down south, just North of Nasiriyah going up to Baghdad this is where the shit hit the fan. We were stopped at a check point, another unit were ahead trying to secure the road so we mech inf can run thru. We stop and waiting on them.

An old guy come up to my Humvee and cradling holding a young boy. Must have been 8 or 9, he claim the boy was hit by a Humvee from the unit that went ahead and secure the road. The old guy come up and my terp told me he needed help as the nearest hospital is very far away and there are no ambulance service to bring him there, in short, he was dying and there are nothing this Iraqi family can do.

So I put him on my car, drove back to Nasiriyah and all the way back to Basra, by then the British took it. And they set up a CCP (Casualty Clearing Point) and a Role 2 hospital somewhere. We drove the boy and the father all the way to the role 2. And the British surgeon (Think he was a major) refused to look at the boy because this was not "Allied Casualty" Then I ask him what is an "Allied Casualty", he said it have to be either one of us or we shot him to be qualified, otherwise they were to divert to local care. Which for me it's Bullshit because there are no local care in war.....

So I pull out my sidearm in front of the major, point it at the boy's hand, and told the British doctor "Do you want me to shoot him and make him an Allied Casualty" I remember the major face turned grey, I saw dead bodies and I never see blood coming out of someone face like that. And he ask the orderlies and wheel the boy in. And then afterward he come out and told me this was "Unacceptable" and I will hear about that. 3 weeks later, command issued me with a reprimand.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Kraetoz

Viet said:


> Yes the world is with the people of Ukraine. No matter how this war plays out Russia is a big loser.


China and India are with Russia. That's 2.8 billion people with Russia more than the entire western *pro Ukrainian *population. Which world is with Ukraine again?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504805514391265307

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> boys gonna be boys



Especially when boys are trying impress girls.  Doing high risk activities.


----------



## beijingwalker

China Sells U.S. LNG to Europe at a Hefty Profit​








China Sells U.S. LNG to Europe at a Hefty Profit


China resold several U.S. liquefied natural gas shipments to Europe, a rare move by the world’s top buyer that highlights how sky-high prices are rerouting trade flows.




www.bloomberg.com

Reactions: Love Love:
1 | Haha Haha:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Amliunion

That Guy said:


> You have no idea what you're talking about.
> 
> Russia is making $1 billion a day from oil sale to Europe, right? They're losing tens of billions a day financing this war, and have lost hundreds of billions due to sanctions.
> 
> They're in the red, and once this war is over, there are gonna be a lot of returning soldiers asking where their pay is.
> 
> Again, you have no idea what you're talking about.
> 
> Logged in just to point out just how absurd this claim is that every mental slave in this thread seem to keep making.



Few pages back you couldn't tell how Zelensky has fortunate of $560 Millions. Was that due to being a Mental Slave?


coffee_cup said:


> First of all, there is absolutely no disputing that Russia is spending a lot of money for this war.
> 
> BUT
> 
> Let me repeat my earlier question which I put several hundred pages ago.
> 
> Do you have an authentic source which supports your claim that Russia loses 10s of billions of $$ a DAY due to this war?
> 
> Lets just analyse a bit and do a little calculation:
> 
> If Russia is losing 10s of billions a day, it would mean at least 20 $ billion a day (otherwise it is 10 and not 10s of billions).
> 
> Now the war is in its 22nd day.
> 
> That would mean Russia has already spent/lost MINIMUM of 440 $ billion?
> 
> 
> 
> Where the heck are they getting this money from? And above all, does that make any sense?


You'd never get answer on this from @That Guy


coffee_cup said:


> No Germany is not paying for Gas from sanctioned money.
> 
> That money is just frozen, which means if in future things settle down and sanctions lifted, it will be repaid.
> 
> Payments made for gas are different.


@Apollon Hope above answer drills some sense in your head.


----------



## Wood

jhungary said:


> Let me tell you a story. This is not about medal, or doing anything about bravery. This is about how I get my first strike as a Second Lieutenant. (3 strike and you will get a other than honorable discharge)
> 
> In 2003, I was a 2LT leading a platoon trying to make our way to Baghdad. We were running a convoy, and my order is we don't stop for shit until we reach the next Phaseline (a progress line of sort where you mark the advance)
> 
> We were going off Highway 7 down south, just North of Nasiriyah going up to Al Kut (Halfway to Baghdad) this is where the shit hit the fan. We were stopped at a check point, another unit were ahead trying to secure the road so we mech inf can run thru. We stop and waiting on them.
> 
> An old guy come up to my Humvee and cradling holding a young boy. Must have been 8 or 9, he claim the boy was hit by a Humvee from the unit that went ahead and secure the road. The old guy come up and my terp told me he needed help as the nearest hospital is very far away and there are no ambulance service to bring him there, in short, he was dying and there are nothing this Iraqi family can do.
> 
> So I put him on my car, drove back to Nasiriyah and all the way back to Basra, by then the British took it. And they set up a CCP (Casualty Clearing Point) and a Role 2 hospital somewhere. We drove the boy and the father all the way to the role 2. And the British surgeon (Think he was a major) refused to look at the boy because this was not "Allied Casualty" Then I ask him what is an "Allied Casualty", he said it have to be either one of us or we shot him to be qualified, otherwise they were to divert to local care. Which for me it's Bullshit because there are no local care in war.....
> 
> So I pull out my sidearm in front of the major, point it at the boy's hand, and told the British doctor "Do you want me to shoot him and make him an Allied Casualty" I remember the major face turned grey, I saw dead bodies and I never see blood coming out of someone face like that. And he ask the orderlies and wheel the boy in. And then afterward he come out and told me this was "Unacceptable" and I will hear about that. 3 weeks later, command issued me with a reprimand.


You are a honorable person


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504802459092504577

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Amliunion

Spoiler: Graphic 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504809341542670352

Reactions: Sad Sad:
1


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## Zhukov

Wood said:


> I was expecting the opposite. Maybe so because I've never been in conflict zones


Neither do i. I am giving my opinnion based on people i know. Soldiers and their commanders are trained professionals. They dont go gungho shooting civilians neither do such draconian orders are given unless their is a civil war situation. Or its a disorganized conscript militia.
Professional forces always do everything possible to avoid any situation that causes such ethical dillemas.
See when Pakistan had to comb the Pak Afghan bordrr how whole populations were displaced from the militant infested areas first. That was cumbersome expensive and very very tough for locals and authorities. But it had to be done.
Never heard from anyone that our soldiers had to shoot civilians directly on order. And we have been in conflict for almost 2 decades now

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Su-34 CAS plane attacking Grad artillery


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504805514391265307

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
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## jhungary

Wood said:


> You are a honorable person


Well, the kid didn't make it tho......

This is not about honorable. This is about doing what you think that's right. Rules in war sometime do not make sense when you are at the forefront fighting. Sometime you need to "Adjust" your order, I mean, you follow them, but how you follow them is up to you.

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504678506516516865
If morality and decency are not sufficient for Indian people to support Ukraine in this conflict, this must at least be appealing. Putin is nothing more than a tool in the hands of India's primary security adversary. His downfall should be as important to Indian interest as it is to Ukrainians defending their land.


----------



## jhungary

Kraetoz said:


> China and India are with Russia. That's 2.8 billion people with Russia more than the entire western *pro Ukrainian *population. Which world is with Ukraine again?


Well, both India and China DID NOT voted against UN resolution, both abstained

And the UNGA result show 141 country support Ukraine and 35 abstain and 5 against Which mean more than 3 billion people in this world voted to condemn Russia in that UNGA resolution. Do tell me which world is with Russia again?


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504814936576434182

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Kraetoz

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504814936576434182


That doesn't look like a bankrupt country.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504805514391265307



This video looks so fake to be honest what do you think ? @RescueRanger @Messerschmitt @LeGenD @gambit


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504816194922102787

Reactions: Like Like:
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## LeGenD

WotTen said:


> Normally you would think an invading army would prioritize three things:
> 1. Destroy the country's airforce.
> 2. Destroy the country's air defence systems.
> 3. Cut off all reinforcement routes.
> This is not rocket science and even an armchair general like me knows this.
> 
> Russia has been planning this attack for years and surely had the satellite imagery and intelligence network to know where every single Ukrainian aircraft was on the night of the invasion.
> 
> Russia certainly had the military capability to blitzkrieg #1 and #3, i.e. destroy the entire Ukrainian airforce within hours and to bomb out every paved road into the country from the rest of Europe. Destroying the Ukrainian air defence system (#2) could then be done leisurely once European reinforcements were denied.
> 
> So why didn't Russia do this?


Here:

The Russian invasion of Ukraine began as expected in the early hours of 24 February: a large salvo of cruise and ballistic missiles destroyed the main ground-based early warning radars throughout Ukraine. The result was to effectively blind the Ukrainian Air Force (UkrAF), and in some cases also hinder aircraft movements by cratering runways and taxiways at its major airbases. Strikes also hit several Ukrainian long-range S-300P surface-to-air missile (SAM) batteries, which had limited mobility due to a long-term lack of spares. These initial stand-off strikes followed the pattern seen in many US-led interventions since the end of the Cold War. The logical and widely anticipated next step, as seen in almost every military conflict since 1938, would have been for the Russian Aerospace Forces (VKS) to mount large-scale strike operations to destroy the UkrAF. With its early warning chain blinded and some runways cratered, the UkrAF was left vulnerable to raids by strike aircraft like the Su-34 with guided munitions, or even multirole Su-30 fighters with predominantly unguided munitions. If present in significant numbers, escorting Su-35 and Su-30 fighters would have overwhelmed the Ukrainian fighters, even if they did manage to take off for sorties conducted at very low altitudes with limited situational awareness. This did not happen.

Details in following link:









The Mysterious Case of the Missing Russian Air Force


On the fifth day of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, one of many unanswered questions is why Russia has launched a military campaign at huge cost with maximalist objectives, and then declined to use the vast majority of its fixed wing combat aircraft.




rusi.org





Following reasons given:

1. Lack of PGMs.
2. Lack of capability of VKS.

And:






Russia’s Involvement In Syria Proves That It's Far Behind The Western World


Russia has made a lot of noise about the modern weapons it has used during combat in Syria and how effective these new weapons are. Fresh Su-34 attack jets scream through the skies, while the latest in small arms test their mettle. But the reality is most of what Russia has used is not as shiny...




jalopnik.com


----------



## MH.Yang

Viet said:


> The world is not static the earth is not flat I wonder why chinese think it’s other way around.
> Europe used to rely on Russia energy imports, with Germany the most affected.
> Even thought Germany says it can cut oil and coal imports from Russia to zero by 2023.
> Europe can produce everything if necessary.
> Intel opens 2x chip factories for $20 billion USD in Germany.
> In few year’s Europe is self sufficient in semiconductor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel-Chip-Fabrik: Wendepunkt für Europa
> 
> 
> Intel baut für 17 Milliarden Euro zwei Chipfabriken in Deutschland: Diese Entscheidung ist wegweisend, aus mehreren Gründen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sueddeutsche.de


You come from the West and are not as familiar with industrial knowledge as the Chinese, so you really underestimate the difficulty and time of rebuilding the modern industrial system from scratch.

These are consumables for coal and oil mines. If the supply of consumables is stopped, these mines will be shut down within three days. If the work is stopped for more than three months, these machines need to be overhauled and then scrapped<So if China ZCC.CT group (factory 601, which produces 15% of the world's cemented carbide products) imposes sanctions on Russia, Russia will not be able to produce any resources.>.









The modern industrial system is a result of the gradual upgrading and accumulation of human beings over a thousand years. If the industrial chain breaks, it will be scrapped quickly, but the reconstruction time will take generations.
For example, if you want to make penicillin, a necessity of modern mankind, you first need to be able to make freeze-dried powder. If you want to make lyophilized powder, you first need high voltage current. If you want high voltage current, you first need stainless steel, special steel, rubber and electric welding. Synthetic rubber needs organic chemical industry, which needs ethylene manufacturing and aromatics manufacturing. Welding requires electrical systems, which require capacitor manufacturing and mercury arc rectifiers, which require chlorine manufacturing and aluminum industry. Just one penicillin, you need to develop hundreds of industrial links. It takes only a week for China to get resource countries to abandon the dollar, because Chinese have mastered the necessities of life and production consumables they need. The west can't even make light bulbs in a week, because it needs vacuum pumps, and then vacuum pumps need hundreds of advanced technologies.
Even if Western countries are given a hundred years, they will not be able to rebuild the whole industrial chain from scratch. China is the only country on the blue planet with a complete manufacturing industry.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Meengla

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504793432052666368



Those Russian demands are 'maximalist' and are for bargaining purposes. Saw an Indian channel video yesterday. There is supposed to be a 'draft' agreement. Both sides willing to compromise. Ukraine will never officially give up on Donbass and Crimea but could settle for a Russian withdrawal from the occupied land since Feb. 25, 2022. Ukraine to also wisely agree to neutrality and to not join NATO. That region and the world needs a ceasefire and it looks like even the talk of tactical nukes or No Fly Zone is losing traction. As of now, some kind of agreement to ceasefire is likely. 



jhungary said:


> Well, both India and China DID NOT voted against UN resolution, both abstained
> 
> And the UNGA result show 141 country support Ukraine and 35 abstain and 5 against Which mean more than 3 billion people in this world voted to condemn Russia in that UNGA resolution. Do tell me which world is with Russia again?



You are grasping at straws. In UNGA resolutions against Israel, 180+ countries vote against Israel. Also, 3 billion people is still less than almost 8 billion of world population and everyone knows that had there not be threat of American sticks, vast majority of people wouldn't care for Ukrainian a lot--the Asians, the Latin American, the African countries have no dog in this fight. BTW, an 'abstention' in some cases, such as this, means taking a definite side while not officially taking any side... But I am sure you knew that.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hack-Hook

LeGenD said:


> Donald Trump created problems for Iran _*but*_ Europe facilitated Iranian economic activity through INSTEX mechanis


Europe did shit . Instex only used once
And we are still cut from international banking system.


----------



## jhungary

Meengla said:


> Those Russian demands are 'maximalist' and are for bargaining purposes. Saw an Indian channel video yesterday. There is supposed to be a 'draft' agreement. Both sides willing to compromise. Ukraine will never officially give up on Donbass and Crimea but could settle for a Russian withdrawal from the occupied land since Feb. 25, 2022. Ukraine to also wisely agree to neutrality and to not join NATO. That region and the world needs a ceasefire and it looks like even the talk of tactical nukes or No Fly Zone is losing traction. As of now, some kind of agreement to ceasefire is likely.
> 
> 
> 
> You are grasping at straws. In UNGA resolutions against Israel, 180+ countries vote against Israel. Also, 3 billion people is still less than almost 8 billion of world population and everyone knows that had there not be threat of American sticks, vast majority of people wouldn't care for Ukrainian a lot--the Asians, the Latin American, the African countries have no dog in this fight. BTW, an 'abstention' in some cases, such as this, means taking a definite side while not officially taking any side... But I am sure you knew that.


Well, I can tell you this, I believe in UN is a absolutely shit organisation.

That does not mean Russia is NOT IN THE WRONG on this. And the reason I said this is because the person I reply to said 2.8 billions people are with Russia, but then that just Bullshit now ain't it?

And you can say whatever you say about abstaining. But if these country are REALLY with Russia, they would go right up against this resolution, not abstaining. But I am pretty sure you know that too.

Oh by the way, There are actually the 4th options other than for, against and abstain, it's not to vote altogether. 12 country took the 4th option, which is really the option of "I support Russia but not wanting to be a world pariah like them" option.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

https://twitter.com/200_zoka


----------



## beijingwalker

Russia is not isolated, some of the world most important countries are with Russia. we can together work out something to isolate the west.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> What balance?
> 
> You do know Russia is a 1.4 trillion economy, right? Ask yourself this, how much China import oil and gas from Russia, and then we start talking about Balance......


Your mistake is that you think all 1.4 million is because of trade with foreign countries .


----------



## beijingwalker

Hack-Hook said:


> Your mistake is that you think all 1.4 million is because of trade with foreign countries .


I actually don't know what that guy is talking about, Russia has everything China needs, even China didn't buy much of them from Russia before, China can quickly shift buying priorities and change the whole landscape of world supply chain from now.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> Your mistake is that you think all 1.4 million is because of trade with foreign countries .


1.4 trillions not 1.4 millions

And if you have to ask this, I think you pretty much do not understand what GDP mean.....



beijingwalker said:


> I actually don't know what that guy is talking about, Russia has everything China needs, even China didn't buy much of them from Russia before, China can quickly shift buying priorities and change the whole landscape of world supply chain.


So, do Russia have Banana plantation? Or are you saying Chinese don't eat Banana hence they don't need them??

Dude, your understanding of worldwide supply chain is laughable......


----------



## That Guy

Amliunion said:


> Few pages back you couldn't tell how Zelensky has fortunate of $560 Millions. Was that due to being a Mental Slave?
> 
> You'd never get answer on this from @That Guy
> 
> @Apollon Hope above answer drills some sense in your head.


Lol, I literally said who cares where he got that money from, as it has nothing to do with the current situation. If you're the guy I was arguing with, that just makes this funny, because you're still obsessed over an irrelevant point.


----------



## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> Russia is not isolated, some of the world most important countries are with Russia. we can together work out something to isolate the west.



BLAH HAAHAAHAA. Sure, China and Russia together can isolate the west.

This is pretty much the "You can't fire me, I quit" argument......I mean, you can't Isolate me, I isolate you......

Have you heard? Russian FM plane on route to Beijing got turn back to Moscow.......









Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov's plane turns around during flight to China, heads back to Moscow: report


Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov was allegedly on a flight headed to Beijing Thursday, but the plane turned around midway and flew back toward Moscow,




eunewsen.com

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## Meengla

Reuters.com front page right now. Perhaps the only major Western news channel which doesn't put in political agendas too much into 'News'. It will be interesting to see what, if any, quid pro quo, Biden and Xi offer each other. Big powers do a lot behind the scene--we only hear occasionally about things like Ribbentorp-Molotov deals. Also, Lavrov is saying that Russia is going to 'look east' to China, India and Asia, away from Europe. Plus the sanctions against Russia would be a double edged sword.
Read on!


----------



## That Guy

coffee_cup said:


> First of all, there is absolutely no disputing that Russia is spending a lot of money for this war.
> 
> BUT
> 
> Let me repeat my earlier question which I put several hundred pages ago.
> 
> Do you have an authentic source which supports your claim that Russia loses 10s of billions of $$ a DAY due to this war?
> 
> Lets just analyse a bit and do a little calculation:
> 
> If Russia is losing 10s of billions a day, it would mean at least 20 $ billion a day (otherwise it is 10 and not 10s of billions).
> 
> Now the war is in its 22nd day.
> 
> That would mean Russia has already spent/lost MINIMUM of 440 $ billion?
> 
> 
> 
> Where the heck are they getting this money from? And above all, does that make any sense?











Research: ‘Ukraine war costs Russian military €20 billion per day’


On February 24th 2022, Russia launched a full-scale invasion of neighbouring Ukraine.




www.consultancy.eu





Wars aren't cheap or easy, which is why nations avoid them unless they are confident of victory.

@Amliunion look, I gave him an answer. Boohoo, that's too bad 😞

Reactions: Like Like:
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## nang2

MH.Yang said:


> You come from the West and are not as familiar with industrial knowledge as the Chinese, so you really underestimate the difficulty and time of rebuilding the modern industrial system from scratch.
> 
> These are consumables for coal and oil mines. If the supply of consumables is stopped, these mines will be shut down within three days. If the work is stopped for more than three months, these machines need to be overhauled and then scrapped<So if China ZCC.CT group (factory 601, which produces 15% of the world's cemented carbide products) imposes sanctions on Russia, Russia will not be able to produce any resources.>.
> View attachment 825230
> 
> View attachment 825231
> 
> The modern industrial system is a result of the gradual upgrading and accumulation of human beings over a thousand years. If the industrial chain breaks, it will be scrapped quickly, but the reconstruction time will take generations.
> For example, if you want to make penicillin, a necessity of modern mankind, you first need to be able to make freeze-dried powder. If you want to make lyophilized powder, you first need high voltage current. If you want high voltage current, you first need stainless steel, special steel, rubber and electric welding. Synthetic rubber needs organic chemical industry, which needs ethylene manufacturing and aromatics manufacturing. Welding requires electrical systems, which require capacitor manufacturing and mercury arc rectifiers, which require chlorine manufacturing and aluminum industry. Just one penicillin, you need to develop hundreds of industrial links. It takes only a week for China to get resource countries to abandon the dollar, because Chinese have mastered the necessities of life and production consumables they need. The west can't even make light bulbs in a week, because it needs vacuum pumps, and then vacuum pumps need hundreds of advanced technologies.
> Even if Western countries are given a hundred years, they will not be able to rebuild the whole industrial chain from scratch. China is the only country on the blue planet with a complete manufacturing industry.


So long as you have the knowledge and the raw material, rebuilding isn't that difficult. Throughout the history, usually it is the lack of the raw material that disrupts a civilization, like the collapse of the Late Bronze Age.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> So, do Russia have Banana plantation? Or are you saying Chinese don't eat Banana hence they don't need them??
> 
> Dude, your understanding of worldwide supply chain is laughable......


lol, sure, your banana world supply chain is indeed an eye opener, lol...


----------



## Wood

Great news!


----------



## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> lol, sure, your banana world supply chain is indeed an eye opener, lol...


Is that a no then?


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504779971604090888


----------



## That Guy

Wood said:


> Great news!


US said it wouldn't block debt payment from Russia, at least for now.

[Edit] okay, back to work, won't log on for a while.


----------



## Wood

That Guy said:


> US said it wouldn't block debt payment from Russia, at least for now.
> 
> [Edit] okay, back to work, won't log on for a while.


I wonder if debtors would loose confidence in Russia because of failure to meet payments when it is under such restrictive sanctions. Perhaps even if Russia defaults, it may get a pass after the sanctions are lifted because its credit rating will easily come back up again.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ka-52 Alligator and Mi-28 Havoc CAS helicopters


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504819393066381315


----------



## Amliunion

That Guy said:


> Lol, I literally said who cares where he got that money from, as it has nothing to do with the current situation. If you're the guy I was arguing with, that just makes this funny, because you're still obsessed over an irrelevant point.


No. I read your posts. Again you proved my point by not replying to question asked by @coffee_cup


----------



## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> Is that a no then?


We don't care bananas , China is with Russia, it's better than the half of the world combined.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Titanium100

My overview analysis of this is that the Americans are overwhelmed by this geostragetic occurances and partially due to their policies for the last 30 years because they have been cannibalizing their allies over irrelevant matters example even NATO itself is splitted and at it's weakest point where Germany and France are not on the same page and all that is due to the cannibalism that was taking place but Biden Admin took it to a whole new level and it is coming back to haunt them as an axis that is powerful has appeared..

Example just listen to this report and they are surprised by the overwhelming support Russia is getting in China and it seems like they have been living under a rock if anything China may join this war if it spreads to Europe on Russia side making this report naive.





They have been cannibalizing their own NATO allies and MENA allies because they got to comfortable in the passing years that they became to over-confident and now everything is crashing down.

They were spying on Germany for years and keeping their military weak on purpose, undermining the French and trying to contain Turkey and limit them including trying to create irrelevant quagmires for MENA allies.. Also annoying everyone with irrelevant NGO human right activists..

While completely being oblivious to the fact that their empire is coming to an end nor knowing where the chellenge is coming from.

Right now if WW3 breaks out Europe will fall to Russia-China because everyone else will assume neutrality in the old world because they don't trust the US even Israel will assume neutrality and they can't logistically fight toe to toe with Russia and China in the old world due to logistical reasons because they don't have land-corridor to the Eurasian continent. They will be forced to watch Europe fall entirely to Russian-Chinese forces if they want to commit to an all out offensive campaign.

All of West Europe will fall easier then Ukraine after an intense nuclear campaign because they won't attack NATO unless it is via Nuclear warfare..

The threat the US is facing is alot more credible then most assume. Biden Admin is definitely not coming back to power because it has cannibalized allies and the US will focus on re-gaining allies but unsure whether they will succeed as the other side will also be doing charm offense to prevent and on the other hand NATO itself could split as France may leave the alliance.

West Europe alone can't take on an axis of China-Russia

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> The Economist @Apollon been saying Russian GAS Supply to Germany been nullified by 380 Billion € that been sanctioned by West. I am asking him to prove that.



Math amigo. Math


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Titanium100 said:


> My overview analysis of this is that the Americans are overwhelmed by this geostragetic occurances and partially due to their policies for the last 30 years because they have been cannibalizing their allies over irrelevant matters example even NATO itself is splitted and at it's weakest point where Germany and France are not on the same page and all that is due to the cannibalism that was taking place but Biden Admin took it to a whole new level and it is coming back to haunt them as an axis that is powerful has appeared..
> 
> Example just listen to this report and they are surprised by the overwhelming support Russia is getting in China and it seems like they have been living under a rock if anything China may join this war if it spreads to Europe on Russia side making this report naive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have been cannibalizing their own NATO allies and MENA allies because they got to comfortable in the passing years that they became to over-confident and now everything is crashing down.
> 
> They were spying on Germany for years and keeping their military weak on purpose, undermining the French and trying to contain Turkey and limit them including trying to create irrelevant quagmires for MENA.. Also annoying them with irrelevant NGO human right activists..
> 
> While completely being oblivious to the fact that their empire is coming to an end nor knowing where the chellenge is coming from.
> 
> Right now if WW3 breaks Europe will fall to Russia-China because everyone else will assume neutrality in the old world because they don't trust the US even Israel will assume neutrality and they can't logistically fight toe to toe with Russia and China in the old world due to logistical reasons because they don't have land-corridor to the Eurasian continent. They will be forced to watch Europe fall entirely to Russian-Chinese forces if they want to commit to an all out offensive campaign.
> 
> All of West Europe will fall easier then Ukraine after an intense nuclear campaign because they won't attack NATO unless it is via Nuclear warfare..
> 
> The threat the US is facing is alot more credible then most assume. Biden Admin is definitely not coming back to power because it has cannibalized allies and the US will focus on re-gaining allies but unsure whether they will succeed.
> 
> West Europe alone can't take on alone an axis of China-Russia



This is what is wrong with you Western Europeans. Millennia of warfare and brutality have shaped your mindset to paranoia and war. China is civilized for thousands of years. Chinese men are no longer interested in violence and killing.


----------



## jamahir

Viet said:


> Yes the world is with the people of Ukraine. No matter how this war plays out Russia is a big loser.





Kraetoz said:


> China and India are with Russia. That's 2.8 billion people with Russia more than the entire western *pro Ukrainian *population. Which world is with Ukraine again?



Indeed, Kraetoz, though Indian mainstream electronic media is certainly anti-Russia but generally to your millions we can add the a few million Syrians, then Venezuelans, Cubans and I am sure North Koreans and there was an interview posted by @beijingwalker two or so days ago of Kazakhs on the streets of Almaty and one girl said that if Russia went to war against the world ( yes, Mr. Viet, your "world" ) then her country will be with Russia too.

However, if Mr. Viet's "world" is what the White House and Number 10 Downing Street show him to be then what can anyone say ?

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## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> We don't care bananas , China is with Russia, it's better than the half of the world combined.


Again, Is that a no then?

Also, at least the Chinese UN representative disagree with you. They voted abstain. not with Russia......


----------



## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> Few pages back you couldn't tell how Zelensky has fortunate of $560 Millions. Was that due to being a Mental Slave?
> 
> You'd never get answer on this from @That Guy
> 
> @Apollon Hope above answer drills some sense in your head.



Well tell me, when will Europe lift sanctions? If history proves right, that can be decades. Or are you more optimistic and think putin bites the dust soon?



jamahir said:


> Indeed, Kraetoz, though Indian mainstream electronic media is certainly anti-Russia but generally to your millions we can add the a few million Syrians, then Venezuelans, Cubans and I am sure North Koreans and there was an interview posted by @beijingwalker two or so days ago of Kazakhs on the streets of Almaty and one girl said that if Russia went to war against the world ( yes, Mr. Viet, your "world" ) then her country will be with Russia too.
> 
> However, if Mr. Viet's "world" is what the White House and Number 10 Downing Street shows him to be then what can anyone say ?



Too bad that russian yachts are not in Kazakhstan, TakaTuka Land or India then hu? They are here, in the only place of the world that matters - the west.


----------



## jhungary

Apollon said:


> Well tell me, when will Europe lift sanctions? If history proves right, that can be decades. Or are you more optimistic and think putin bites the dust soon?
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad that russian yachts are not in Kazakhstan, TakaTuka Land or India then hu? They are here, in the only place of the world that matters - the west.


Rumor has it Putin is going thru *TRANS*itioning.....

There is a report that he recently have cosmetic surgery done on his face and also he started to wear make up......Think he is trying to be a "Pretty" boy...






That also account for his mood swing.......because of all those estrogen...


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504827646739640321


----------



## Meengla

jhungary said:


> Rumor has it Putin is going thru *TRANS*itioning.....
> 
> There is a report that he recently have cosmetic surgery done on his face and also he started to wear make up......Think he is trying to be a "Pretty" boy...



And you went from reporting as a serious military veteran with battlefield and weapons knowledge to... this?? <Joking>

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Separatists AKA Russian bums who invade Ukraine for land and women shooting arti.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504818532416200708


----------



## nang2

Tai Hai Chen said:


> This is what is wrong with you Western Europeans. Millennia of warfare and brutality have shaped your mindset to paranoia and war. China is civilized for thousands of years. Chinese men are no longer interested in violence and killing.


Oh, please. Don't make Chinese look like a bunch of sissy pants.

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## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> Also, at least the Chinese UN representative disagree with you. They voted abstain. not with Russia......


If till now you still don't see that China is with Russia, you've got to be blind.

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## Apollon

beijingwalker said:


> If till now you still don't see that China is with Russia, you've got to be blind.



Russia is defeated buddy, what you do when we got Putin? China started a test with Russia and waits what happens. It sees how the west serves Russias head on a tablet and will make its own conclusions.

China never is with anyone, china is with china only


----------



## jhungary

Meengla said:


> And you went from reporting as a serious military veteran with battlefield and weapons knowledge to... this?? <Joking>


Well, I don't see anything wrong with this news....

That goes with the commanding in chief of a nation and how he conduct warfare.

I mean if US is at war, would you be commenting on the mental status of Biden?

Also, you can see it for yourself about Putin Transitioning. He really look like he have some work done and started wearing make up. I would worry if my commander in chief start wearing a dress. Don't you think?



beijingwalker said:


> If till now you still don't see that China is with Russia, you've got to be blind.


With Russia is when Chinese VOTED *WITH* Russia, I don't see Russia is "Abstaining" from that Resolution. ergo, China is NOT with Russia on this.

Gosh, is English really that hard? Do you want me to type Chinese instead?


----------



## beijingwalker

Apollon said:


> Russia is defeated buddy, what you do when we got Putin? China started a test with Russia and waits what happens. It sees how the west serves Russias head on a tablet and will make its own conclusions.
> 
> China never is with anyone, china is with china only


This is your wishful thinking, first, Russia is not defeated, second, China is with Russia, anyone who is not blind now can see it.

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## Apollon

More destroyed russian equipment and ukrainian soldiers joking about it


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> China never is with anyone, china is with china only



In a global village, no country is alone. Even China no longer endorses its former isolationist policy.


----------



## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> With Russia is when Chinese VOTED *WITH* Russia, I don't see Russia is "Abstaining" from that Resolution. ergo, China is NOT with Russia on this.
> 
> Gosh, is English really that hard? Do you want me to type Chinese instead?


You can not judge everything based on a single vote, I watch Chinese TV everyday, they are 100% pro Russia and Chinese social media is overwhelming pro Russia due to the influence of the Chinese government media. You also know it but you are just in denial.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

nang2 said:


> Oh, please. Don't make Chinese look like a bunch of sissy pants.



Peacefulness and friendliness is a plus for men. Women don't like abusive and violent men. Western women prefer Chinese men to Western men precisely because Chinese men are not abusive and violent like Western men. Chinese men are about the same height as Chinese women. Western men are half a foot taller than Western women. Ergo, Western men have too must testosterone therefore violent and abusive to women.

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## jhungary

Apollon said:


> More destroyed russian equipment and ukrainian soldiers joking about it



Sometime I thought Putin just want to out-do the American.........I mean its a two horses race now, how much US left Taliban its equipment vis-a-vis how much Russia left Ukrainian their equipment.



beijingwalker said:


> You can not judge everything based on a single vote, I watch Chinese TV everyday, they are 100% pro Russia and Chinese social media is overwhelming pro Russia due to the influence of the Chinese government media. You also know it but you are just in denial.


Again, if that is the case, do tell me why China did not vote WITH Russia on this? Again, do you understand the meaning of "with"

And a few page ago, you said NOT all Chinese are pro-Russia on this, so which one is true now? Because it cannot both be true?

Oh, by the way, it's NOT a single vote. There were 2. Both abstained.


----------



## nang2

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Peacefulness and friendliness is a plus for men. Women don't like abusive and violent men. Western women prefer Chinese men to Western men precisely because Chinese men are not abusive and violent like Western men.


Women do like men to use violence against other men who are harming them.

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## Apollon

beijingwalker said:


> This is your wishful thinking, first, Russia is not defeated, second, China is with Russia, anyone who is not blind now can see it.



I dont know. I see russian soldiers dieing by the thousands each day as we hammer them with MANPADS. Dont you think chinese commanders make their conclusions too? 

Or do you say the russian war goes as planned? Do you see this desastrous military plunder as a sucess?

Before the war, Russia was a small economy but now its a destroyed economy. Do you consider this sucess?

China watchs and thats it about it. You watch as we collectivly beat Russia to pulp.

And only support from China are warm words


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

nang2 said:


> Women do like men to use violence against other men who are harming them.



Bullshit. Women prefer men who are not violent and abusive. Thousands of years of civilization shaped Chinese men to be like so. Men who do violence are gunned down by police. They don't get women. And they sure as hell don't pass on their violent genes.

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## beijingwalker

Apollon said:


> I dont know. I see russian soldiers dieing by the thousands each day as we hammer them with MANPADS. Dont you think chinese commanders make their conclusions too?
> 
> Or do you say the russian war goes as planned? Do you see this desastrous military plunder as a sucess?
> 
> Before the war, Russia was a small economy but now its a destroyed economy. Do you consider this sucess?
> 
> China watchs and thats it about it. You watch as we collectivly beat Russia to pulp.
> 
> And only support from China are warm words


Neither you nor me can delare wether Russia or Ukraine is defeated, do you agree?


----------



## Titanium100

nang2 said:


> Oh, please. Don't make Chinese look like a bunch of sissy pants.



If the Chinese see Nuclear warfare in west europe they will intervene on Russia's side and west europe will fall entirely. The Americans can't put forces on the ground like WW2 as they can be logistically stopped from coming over with anything significiant limiting their intervention but the Americans will likely brace for an invasion happening on their lands post that


----------



## coffee_cup

That Guy said:


> Research: ‘Ukraine war costs Russian military €20 billion per day’
> 
> 
> On February 24th 2022, Russia launched a full-scale invasion of neighbouring Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.consultancy.eu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wars aren't cheap or easy, which is why nations avoid them unless they are confident of victory.
> 
> @amlioh look, I gave him an answer. Boohoo, that's too bad 😞


Now to put things in perspective, USA spent from *2001 - 2022* altogether *$2,31* Trillion in Afghan war. And that too in environment which was thousands of km away and cost much much more than if US were to march in a neighboring country.


$20 billion per day would roughly mean $ 7 Trillion in one year and in 20 years time it would be what? *$140* (!!) trillion.



Do you even question logically the propaganda sources before sharing them?

Yes wars are not cheap.
Yes we are all against wars and we are also against this one.

But kindly do not spread blind propaganda. Thanks!

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## Meengla

beijingwalker said:


> This is your wishful thinking, first, Russia is not defeated, second, China is with Russia, anyone who is not blind now can see it.



I agree with you.
This @jhungary from day one is saying that China is not with Russia. That's so ill-informed!! This guy even said at the start of this war that China is going put Russia in place due to Russian using nukes. The use of nukes were not even mentioned start of the war because of the assumption of a cakewalk.
China is definitely WITH Russia. That China abstained is nothing more than China following its official policy of non-aggression and sovereignty. 
Having said that, this war gives China advantages which China could use not only in Russia but also through Americans. That's how big powers work!!

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504827331134861312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504827196686352398

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504827657946640391

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504827988516511750

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## ProudPak

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504580157079580676
> lmao


According to the same people Iraq had WMD. What's your point? About these liars?


----------



## nang2

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Bullshit. Women prefer men who are not violent and abusive. Thousands of years of civilization shaped Chinese men to be like so. Men who do violence are gunned down by police. They don't get women. And they sure as hell don't pass on their violent genes.


What about the policymen who is gunning down those men who do violence? Who is gunning down them?


----------



## jhungary

Meengla said:


> I agree with you.
> This @jhungary from day one is saying that China is not with Russia. That's so ill-informed!! This guy even said at the start of this war that China is going put Russia in place due to Russian using nukes. The use of nukes were not even mentioned start of the war because of the assumption of a cakewalk.
> China is definitely WITH Russia. That China abstained is nothing more than China following its official policy of non-aggression and sovereignty.
> Having said that, this war gives China advantages which China could use not only in Russia but also through Americans. That's how big powers work!!



Hmm, Nuke was implied on the first day when Putin said "Anyone who stand against us would see consequence that they never see before in history"

Also how do you explain why both time (The UNSC resolution and UNGA resolution) China abstain, when they can by their own right voted against it.

Say what you like with me or Chinese member here, nobody here is in charge of Chinese government, and even an idiot can see siding with Russia is not going to end up well in this case especially when they have already lost the strategic initiative. Sure, Chinese fan boy here are going to say we are with Russia, because that feed their dream so that they can retake Taiwan because Russia is doing this. Chinese government tho, is not that stupid. If they want to make dough, they know they need to play the west game. This is not about non-aggression policy, this is about money, going against the west, then China will lose money, the west is very much wishing and hoping China will join Russian camp, that give them the legal way to sanction China.


----------



## nang2

jhungary said:


> Hmm, Nuke was implied on the first day when Putin said "Anyone who stand against us would see consequence that they never see before in history"


That doesn't mean nuke. We have seen the consequence of nuke in history.


----------



## jamahir

Wood said:


> If morality and decency are not sufficient for Indian people to support Ukraine in this conflict, this must at least be appealing. Putin is nothing more than a tool in the hands of India's primary security adversary. His downfall should be as important to Indian interest as it is to Ukrainians defending their land.



Because you are snarky in your posts usually you won't be able to know that morality and decency come by *not standing with NATO*. Didn't you see photos of Russian-speaking civilians in Ukraine or former Ukraine lynched and hung or crucified or being terrorized by other means ? Stop being snarky, start being human and rational.



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504779971604090888



This is the second time today this vid has been posted. Please stop propaganda spamming.



Apollon said:


> Too bad that russian yachts are not in Kazakhstan, TakaTuka Land or India then hu? They are here, in the only place of the world that matters - the west.



Well, happy yachting then. 

And happy using those frozen Russian billions.



nang2 said:


> Oh, please. Don't make Chinese look like a bunch of sissy pants.



Humanity should have abolished war after the end of WW2 but it exists mainly because the Western governments desired it to remain. One of the desires of Communism is the erasure of national borders because the concept of Nation State is artificial and such an erasure will automatically cause militaries to be abolished. Call that sissy if you want but that is how it should be. Anyone who doesn't desire peace, harmony and serenity among humanity is not desirable.

Taking the above into consideration, the American military budget just for 2020-21 was 700+ billion dollars and the American military is an invasions-oriented one. Would you call the American military a bunch of sissies or criminals ?

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## Meengla

jhungary said:


> Say what you like with me or Chinese member here, nobody here is in charge of Chinese government, and even an idiot can see siding with Russia is not going to end up well in this case especially when they have already lost the strategic initiative. Sure, Chinese fan boy here are going to say we are with Russia, because that feed their dream so that they can retake Taiwan because Russia is doing this. Chinese government tho, is not that stupid.



I really think you should just give it up on this China is NOT with Russia!!


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

nang2 said:


> What about the policymen who is gunning down those men who do violence? Who is gunning down them?



Police serve civilization. Civilization eliminates violent and abusive men. That is why after thousands of years of civilization Chinese men are like so. No more violence and abuse in China.


----------



## beijingwalker

Meengla said:


> I really think you should just give it up on this China is NOT with Russia!!



UN international court of justice orders Russia to halt invasion of Ukraine, Russian and Chinese judges on the court voted against the order​








UN international court of justice orders Russia to halt invasion of Ukraine, Russian and Chinese judges on the court voted against the order


UN international court of justice orders Russia to halt invasion of Ukraine, Russian and Chinese judges on the court voted against the order Ukraine-Russia: China said the judges of World Court performed the duty independently. (Representational) Wed 16 Mar 2022 17.04 GMT The UN’s...



defence.pk


----------



## jhungary

Meengla said:


> I really think you should just give it up on this China is NOT with Russia!!


Again you think China (not the Chinese here, who know the square root of jack shit in international politics) would risk isolating themselves with the US, Canada, EU and UK, which represent 70% of world economy and 90% of world currency base. And go help out Russia, who can't even manage to take Mariupol after 23 days of fighting.

I mean if China fancy selling their product to Africa and Russia, than 2 or 3 times the price in US, EU, sure, be my guest, go with Russia, as I said, you don't even know how much the West wanted China to side with Russia. The further they step into that deep hole, the more problem they will get, China already have North Korea as their liability, do you think they need Russia as well?

So no, you should just give on China is with Russia.


----------



## That Guy

Amliunion said:


> No. I read your posts. Again you proved my point by not replying to question asked by @coffee_cup


Lol, You did not.

I literally answered his question. He asked for a source, I gave it to him.

Nice try though.

For real this time, I can't keep logging in, so stop making me laugh so much.


----------



## Wood

Russians against this unjust war!


----------



## jhungary

nang2 said:


> That doesn't mean nuke. We have seen the consequence of nuke in history.


You should say "That doesn't NECESSARILY mean nuke" 

Yes, I know that, that's why I said "Imply"


----------



## beijingwalker

coffee_cup said:


> Does his home country Vietnam grows bananas?
> 
> I am not very familiar with the geography of Vietnam. I mean, in that case China could go to Vietnam which was also neutral(?) in this conflict?


Bananas? China can also grow bananas in the south, yes, Vietnam grows a lot of bananas


----------



## ProudPak

thetutle said:


> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504419779947466764
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504419779947466764


This is pure 100% piracy?


----------



## That Guy

coffee_cup said:


> Now to put things in perspective, USA spent from *2001 - 2022* altogether *$2,31* Trillion in Afghan war. And that too in environment which was thousands of km away and cost much much more than if US were to march in a neighboring country.
> 
> 
> $20 billion per day would roughly mean $ 7 Trillion in one year and in 20 years time it would be what? *$140* (!!) trillion.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you even question logically the propaganda sources before sharing them?
> 
> Yes wars are not cheap.
> Yes we are all against wars and we are also against this one.
> 
> But kindly do not spread blind propaganda. Thanks!


Yes yes, everything you disagree with is propaganda. Also, you clearly didn't read the entire thing, it's very much obvious.

Let's ignore the fact that the Russians are pouring in more resources in Ukraine in a short time span, while the US didn't have to, because Iraqi barely had a functioning army before and during the invasion.

LOL


----------



## Meengla

jhungary said:


> Again you think China (not the Chinese here, who know the square root of jack shit in international politics) would risk isolating themselves with the US, Canada, EU and UK, which represent 70% of world economy and 90% of world currency base. And go help out Russia, who can't even manage to take Maruipol after 23 days of fighting.
> 
> I mean if China fancy selling their product to Africa and Russia, than 2 or 3 times the price in US, EU, sure, be my guess, go with Russia, as I said, you don't even know how much the West wanted China to side with Russia. The further they step into that deep hole, the more problem they will get, China already have North Korea as their liability, do you think they need Russia as well?
> 
> So not, you should just give on China is with Russia.



A Chinese person is better placed to answer your post. To me and just about all Western thinkers, China supports Russia! That China might not go to the extent to inflict damage on the Chinese economy is a different matter.

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## tower9

Titanium100 said:


> If the Chinese see Nuclear warfare in west europe they will intervene on Russia's side and west europe will fall entirely. The Americans can't put forces on the ground like WW2 as they can be logistically stopped from coming over with anything significiant limiting their intervention but the Americans will likely brace for an invasion happening on their lands post that


The US can’t fight a ground war against Russia. Period. Not going to happen. Russia is taking a lot of hits but Russia is willing to take those hits to win. Remember it lost twenty million but destroyed Nazi germany. Russia is the entire reason why Hitler was defeated, the western Allies just jumped in to kick a dying corpse in the end after Russia had already cannibalized Germany.

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## jhungary

Meengla said:


> A Chinese person is better placed to answer your post. To me and just about all Western thinkers, China supports Russia! That China might not go to the extent to inflict damage on the Chinese economy is a different matter.



I am half Chinese, I know what Chinese people think I live in China for over a decade, have you?

And no, you cannot be with Russia and not inflict damage on Chinese own economy. How hard is it for you to understand? If you don't want damage done to your economy, you can't support Russia, which is being sanctioned at the moment. You are saying you want to play with fire but don't want to get burn.......


----------



## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> Again, Is that a no then?
> 
> Also, at least the Chinese UN representative disagree with you. They voted abstain. not with Russia......



China abstained because Russia recognized the independence of Donetsk and Lugansk. It is impossible for us to allow a region to vote for independence without the consent of the central govt. Otherwise, Taiwan will also vote. What shall we do?

If Russia organizes a volunteer army to help the East Ukrainian army overthrow the Nazi govt of Ukraine and solve the problem under the national framework of Ukraine, rather than splitting Ukraine. We will support Russia.

Putin does not solve the problem within the national framework of Ukraine, but recognizes the independence of eastern Ukraine. We suspect that Russia wants to annex these regions, just like Crimea. This is an obvious act of aggression, which the Chinese don't like. We oppose sanctions against Russia, but we do not support Russia's annexation of Ukraine. Can you correctly understand the Chinese attitude towards the war?

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## Avicenna

It would be interesting for China to supply Russia with Chinese designed weapons for real world use in Ukraine.

I wonder if that is possible.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504829905791602694It's time to get into the VPN business


----------



## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> China abstained because Russia recognized the independence of Donetsk and Lugansk. It is impossible for us to allow a region to vote for independence without the consent of the central govt. Otherwise, Taiwan will also vote. What shall we do?
> 
> If Russia organizes a volunteer army to help the East Ukrainian army overthrow the Nazi govt of Ukraine and solve the problem under the national framework of Ukraine, rather than splitting Ukraine. We will support Russia.



You do know what you are saying is that China is NOT currently supporting Russia, right? 

Because Russia is NOT solving this problem under the national framework of Ukraine....

You are saying had they done it otherwise, China will support them, well, duh, they weren't doing it any other way tho....


----------



## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> I am half Chinese, I know what Chinese people think I live in China for over a decade, have you?


No, you don't, you really don't, here we have many Chinese members, ask them if you don't believe. If all Chinese believe you don't know China and Chinese people and you insist that you do, that only will make you a laughing stock.


----------



## That Guy

tower9 said:


> The US can’t fight a ground war against Russia. Period. Not going to happen. Russia is taking a lot of hits but Russia is willing to take those hits to win. Remember it lost twenty million but destroyed Nazi germany. Russia is the entire reason why Hitler was defeated, the western Allies just jumped in to kick a dying corpse in the end after Russia had already cannibalized Germany.


The Soviet Union is not the Russian federation.

If it was the Soviets, Ukraine would has been under complete Soviet control within a matter of days, an Zelensky would have been buried 6 feet under within hours of the invasion.

The fact that the Soviets took those hits is the reason why Russia's population suffers extreme fluctuations. The Russian Federation can't afford to take such hits, which was the reason behind Russia's modernization plan in the first place.

Okay, now I'm done.


----------



## Kraetoz

Apollon said:


> I dont know. I see russian soldiers dieing by the thousands each day as we hammer them with MANPADS. Dont you think chinese commanders make their conclusions too?
> 
> Or do you say the russian war goes as planned? Do you see this desastrous military plunder as a sucess?
> 
> Before the war, Russia was a small economy but now its a destroyed economy. Do you consider this sucess?
> 
> China watchs and thats it about it. You watch as we collectivly beat Russia to pulp.
> 
> And only support from China are warm words


We beat Russia to a pulp? Dude NATO and US are scared to implement a no-fly zone, they don't have the balls. They are just fighting Russia till the last Ukrainian.

In the process of not implementing a no-fly zone because they are scared, they are allowing Russia to beat Ukraine to a pulp. As Zelensky has mentioned it countless times that West is responsible with Russia for thousands of Ukrainians deaths.


----------



## tower9

That Guy said:


> The Soviet Union is not the Russian federation.
> 
> If it was the Soviets, Ukraine would has been under complete Soviet control within a matter of days, an Zelensky would have been buried 6 feet under within hours of the invasion.
> 
> The fact that the Soviets took those hits is the reason why Russia's population suffers extreme fluctuations. The Russian Federation can't afford to take such hits, which was the reason behind Russia's modernization plan in the first place.
> 
> Okay, now I'm done.


Sure you can say that, but the Russians aren’t facing Nazi germany today either. Also keep in mind that in the early stage of the war, the soviets took massive losses in territory and population. Russia has only gained territory in Ukraine despite some heavy losses and logistical issues.


----------



## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> LOL whatever, as if what you or anyone here think will change what I did and what I went thru.
> 
> Dude, it's been what, 6 years? Since we have this Chinese Flag talk, does it even get old with you guys?


You were born in US, where is the US flag?


----------



## nang2

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Police serve civilization. Civilization eliminates violent and abusive men. That is why after thousands of years of civilization Chinese men are like so. No more violence and abuse in China.


So some men are allowed to use violence while others aren't as long as those some men serve civilization. I suggest every violent man claim to use violence to serve the civilization.


----------



## Apollon

beijingwalker said:


> Neither you nor me can delare wether Russia or Ukraine is defeated, do you agree?



I agree but we both can agree that russia plundered its Reputation completly


----------



## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> You do know what you are saying is that China is NOT currently supporting Russia, right?
> 
> Because Russia is NOT solving this problem under the national framework of Ukraine....
> 
> You are saying had they done it otherwise, China will support them, well, duh, they weren't doing it any other way tho....


Why can't you understand the Chinese attitude? 
China does not support Russia's war of aggression. We understand Russia's concerns about the Nazi government in Ukraine, but Putin should not support the independence of eastern Ukraine, which is a violation of the international order. Putin has a better solution to the problem, but he didn't. We also do not support Western sanctions against Russia, because it is related to China's Geopolitical Security. So we will support Russia's economic security, but we will not give them military support.

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## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> You were born in US, where is the US flag?


Dude, you have been in US, where is your US flag?


----------



## Meengla

jhungary said:


> I am half Chinese, I know what Chinese people think I live in China for over a decade, have you?
> 
> And no, you cannot be with Russia and not inflict damage on Chinese own economy. How hard is it for you to understand? If you don't want damage done to your economy, you can't support Russia, which is being sanctioned at the moment. You are saying you want to play with fire but don't want to get burn.......



For every one of you as 'Chinese' there are a million Chinese unlike you. Perhaps you are a 'CBBD' (Chinese Born Confused Desi)?? Indians and Pakistanis know that category well! BTW, this claiming to know a country and its latest geopolitical situation because of your ancestry or claiming to know all military matters because you might have served in military decades ago is akin to a psychiatrist claiming to be a heart surgeon!
China is behind Russia! And will be to the extent of China's own interests not getting affected. But feel free to believe otherwise.... Chinese here and in other forums won't find it hard to shred your 'logic' to pieces if you continue on this path...

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> You should say "That doesn't NECESSARILY mean nuke"
> 
> Yes, I know that, that's why I said "Imply"


OK, I stand corrected. 



jhungary said:


> I am half Chinese, I know what Chinese people think I live in China for over a decade, have you?
> 
> And no, you cannot be with Russia and not inflict damage on Chinese own economy. How hard is it for you to understand? If you don't want damage done to your economy, you can't support Russia, which is being sanctioned at the moment. You are saying you want to play with fire but don't want to get burn.......


which half?


----------



## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> Dude, you have been in US, where is your US flag?


I've been to many places, do I have to carry all their flags? You were neither born in China nor are a Chinese citizen, why you carry a Chinese flag?

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## Apollon

Kraetoz said:


> We beat Russia to a pulp? Dude NATO and US are scared to implement a no-fly zone, they don't have the balls. They are just fighting Russia till the last Ukrainian.
> 
> In the process of not implementing a no-fly zone because they are scared, they are allowing Russia to beat Ukraine to a pulp. As Zelensky has mentioned it countless times that West is responsible with Russia for thousands of Ukrainians deaths.



Well why escalate further when what we do now is enough to deliver extreme damage to Russia?


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504485596944691209I'm so sad for the Russian people they are fast returning to the era of the soviet depression

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504833737883852800
The Russian convoy that was destroyed yesterday in the Sumy region. Judging by the uniform,a captain was killed


----------



## tower9

Apollon said:


> I agree but we both can agree that russia plundered its Reputation completly


I don’t agree with this war and I think Putin is losing it. At the same time it is clear that Ukraine was being used irresponsibly by the US as a sacrificial lamb to trap Russia in a quagmire and politician and economic trap. I just don’t understand why Putin fell for it.

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## Amliunion

Paul2 said:


> We have a few users here with no, or close to no post history suddenly appearing in this topic, posting twitter feeds nonstop.
> 
> My suspicion, we have "professionals" here



We have members who are professionals only become active to defend their Daddy US.

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## MH.Yang

nang2 said:


> What about the policymen who is gunning down those men who do violence? Who is gunning down them?


Tai Hai Chen is an Indian Troll posing as a Chinese. Why are you talking so much nonsense to him?

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## coffee_cup

That Guy said:


> Lol, You did not.
> 
> I literally answered his question. He asked for a source, I gave it to him.
> 
> Nice try though.
> 
> For real this time, I can't keep logging in, so stop making me laugh so much.



You just shared a propaganda source, I asked for a reliable source.

By telling that Russian war on Ukraine is about *7000%* more expensive than US war in Afghanistan, you are making everyone chuckle. 

I would strongly suggest these "sources" to hire better propagandists!

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504840370244489219

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## beijingwalker

Biden asks China’s Xi for help against Russia​








WH keeping public in dark on what Biden demanded of China’s Xi over arming Putin


The White House was tight-lipped Friday about what President Biden told Chinese President Xi Jinping beyond saying there would be “consequences” if China supplies weapons for Russia&#82…




nypost.com





He is indeed too old...

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## nang2

MH.Yang said:


> Tai Hai Chen is an Indian Troll posing as a Chinese. Why are you talking so much nonsense to him?


I am just yanking his chain. 



dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504485596944691209I'm so sad for the Russian people they are fast returning to the era of the soviet depression


If not the Russian signs, I could easily mistaken it as some Walmart store close by.


----------



## Kraetoz

Apollon said:


> Well why escalate further when what we do now is enough to deliver extreme damage to Russia?


Exactly my point, West doesn't care about Ukrainian lives. They are just scared of Russian escelation.

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## Amliunion

coffee_cup said:


> You just shared a propaganda source, I asked for a reliable source.
> 
> By telling that Russian war on Ukraine is about *7000%* more expensive than US war in Afghanistan, you are making everyone chuckle.
> 
> I would strongly suggest these "sources" to hire better propagandists!


He kept saying that Zelensky made money because of his Financial advisors. 😁

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## dBSPL

Turkish export figures are already rising wildly. The trade volume with both Russia and the EU region is increasing.








Turkish exporters see $1 bln boost as EU bans Russian steel


The Turkish steel industry, the European Union's top supplier, expects an additional $1 billion in exports to EU countries after the bloc banned steel imports from Russia and distributed its quotas to other countries.




www.reuters.com

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## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> First of all, I did not claim In know a country because of my ancestry, I claim to know the country because I used to live in China and went to School in China, and I communicate with other Chinese. That's different than because my mother is Chinese so I know Chinese. I went to elementary school in China, High School in China, and 1 year University in China. I even hold Chinese Citizenship.
> 
> Second, You still don't get it. China is all about making money, In case you don't even know, China have outstanding Land dispute with Russia, as much as they did with Japan and almost all of the South East Asia.
> 
> And lol, as if they didn't already try to "Shred" me to pieces, they have tried it for the last 6 years, I am still here as a side of their throne, and that is for a reason. I remember I had started a Chinese Poem thread, none of these "Chinese" even dare to discuss any of the poem with me, make me wonder were they actually Chinese.....
> 
> LOL


You should at least give one flag to your birth place like anyone does here.

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> First of all, I did not claim In know a country because of my ancestry, I claim to know the country because I used to live in China and went to School in China, and I communicate with other Chinese. That's different than because my mother is Chinese so I know Chinese. I went to elementary school in China, High School in China, and 1 year University in China. I even hold Chinese Citizenship.
> 
> Second, You still don't get it. China is all about making money, In case you don't even know, China have outstanding Land dispute with Russia, as much as they did with Japan and almost all of the South East Asia.
> 
> And lol, as if they didn't already try to "Shred" me to pieces, they have tried it for the last 6 years, I am still here as a side of their throne, and that is for a reason.
> 
> LOL


I think you two are misunderstanding each other. Both of you are correct. If one sees China supporting Russia since it isn't against it, he is right. If one sees China not supporting Russia since it doesn't support it, he is also right. The key is with what you mean by "support".

I think China is both supporting and not supporting Russia. It is supporting Russia through maintaining normal relationship, expanding the commercial relationship and even exploiting new opportunities opened up by West sanction on Russia. It is not supporting Russia by refusing its requests on military support and material support that China cannot produce completely without Western ties. China is not taking sides. It is watching and trying to make the best of it for itself.



jhungary said:


> lol, you probably have missed the thread.
> 
> I have Chinese CItizenship, You do remember I have a home in China, right? You can't own home without Hokhu


Dude, you are more Chinese than I am.

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## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> lol, you probably have missed the thread.
> 
> I have Chinese CItizenship, You do remember I have a home in China, right? You can't own home without Hokhu


I really doubt about it, you don't even know how to use the right pinyin, hukou.

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## coffee_cup

Amliunion said:


> He kept saying that Zelensky made money because of his Financial advisors. 😁


Oh yes, I remember that. 

$ 550 million as a comedian with help of advisors. Yeah right.... LOL

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## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> You should at least give one flag to your birth place like anyone does here.


Well, maybe you should really stop discussing this now, again, it's been 6 years, there are no progress on your crusade. And I am feeling Mod is not going to get kind on these "off topic" discussion.

My advice? Let it go, It's been 6 years, if you can't get it then, you won't get it now.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504829905791602694

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> This video looks so fake to be honest what do you think ? @RescueRanger @Messerschmitt @LeGenD @gambit
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504816194922102787



Do you call this one fake too? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504829361844797454

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504826782767271941


----------



## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> First of all, I did not claim In know a country because of my ancestry, I claim to know the country because I used to live in China and went to School in China, and I communicate with other Chinese. That's different than because my mother is Chinese so I know Chinese. I went to elementary school in China, High School in China, and 1 year University in China. I even hold Chinese Citizenship.
> 
> Second, You still don't get it. China is all about making money, In case you don't even know, China have outstanding Land dispute with Russia, as much as they did with Japan and almost all of the South East Asia.
> 
> And lol, as if they didn't already try to "Shred" me to pieces, they have tried it for the last 6 years, I am still here as a side of their throne, and that is for a reason. I remember I had started a Chinese Poem thread, none of these "Chinese" even dare to discuss any of the poem with me, make me wonder were they actually Chinese.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 古詩十九首 19 Ancient Chinese Poems No.1 - 行行重行行
> 
> 
> Many people know me here as a US Military Professional, been to war, tough as nail, or a American Troll with false flag, but the fact that, I was a lot more than that, most people that had met me don't think I was a soldier, and they look really surprised when I told them i was in a war or...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I stand corrected, 1 Chinese member discuss Chinese Poem with me....1. Just 1. Let that sink in for a moment. There were 2 Pakistani guy and an Indian girl on that thread....
> 
> LOL


This is a poem I wrote for general Huo Qubing when I was 16. I hope you can understand it.

I have never posted this poem on the Internet, so no one can search it. People who don't understand Chinese can't understand it.

弱冠初仕羽林郎，
披甲扶剑辞吾皇。
少年骁勇负胆气，
笑随烈候出定襄。
踏破漠北七千里，
骠骑将军镇渔阳。
匈奴嫁妇失颜色，
封狼居胥擒胡王。
天妒英才冠军候，
百死不悔为汉殇。

Can you talk about this poem and prove that you know Chinese?

If you can correctly interpret this poem, I believe no Chinese member will doubt that you are half Chinese.

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## dBSPL

WSJ was once a respected media outlet. Now it has become the media of trolls and so-called expert, dumbs.

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## Apollon

tower9 said:


> I don’t agree with this war and I think Putin is losing it. At the same time it is clear that Ukraine was being used irresponsibly by the US as a sacrificial lamb to trap Russia in a quagmire and politician and economic trap. I just don’t understand why Putin fell for it.



Psychology. Putin has only yes sayers around himself. I guess they only told him what he wanted to hear.



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504829905791602694



Putin is desperate


----------



## tower9

beijingwalker said:


> Biden asks China’s Xi for help against Russia​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WH keeping public in dark on what Biden demanded of China’s Xi over arming Putin
> 
> 
> The White House was tight-lipped Friday about what President Biden told Chinese President Xi Jinping beyond saying there would be “consequences” if China supplies weapons for Russia&#82…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nypost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is indeed too old...


Truly delusional. So these idiots are expecting China to help destroy Russia only to be followed by the West isolating and destroying China after Russia falls. Truly delusional thinking.

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## beijingwalker

MH.Yang said:


> This is a poem I wrote for general Huo Qubing when I was 16. I hope you can understand it.
> 
> I have never posted this poem on the Internet, so no one can search it. People who don't understand Chinese can't understand it.
> 
> 弱冠初仕羽林郎，
> 披甲扶剑辞吾皇。
> 少年骁勇负胆气，
> 笑随烈候出定襄。
> 踏破漠北七千里，
> 骠骑将军镇渔阳。
> 匈奴嫁妇失颜色，
> 封狼居胥擒胡王。
> 天妒英才冠军候，
> 百死不悔为汉殇。
> 
> Can you talk about this poem and prove that you know Chinese?
> 
> If you can correctly interpret this poem, I believe no Chinese member will doubt that you are half Chinese.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=668314214420319






Russians are rewriting battlefield. You gotta be amazed at what these guys are doing in this war.

I also feel bad about the Ukrainian people who founded themselves in this situation. The root cause of this conflict is Zelensky and his nationalist supporters getting themselves and the Ukrainian people in a conflict that they don't belong. Had they treated their fellow Russian citizens in Eastern Ukraine humanely and stayed clear from Western elites' obsession with Russia, they wouldn't be in this situation. The best defense is staying out of a conflict that you don't belong to.

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## Foinikas

dBSPL said:


> WSJ was once a respected media outlet. Now it has become the media of trolls and so-called expert, dumbs.


Is your government actually thinking of it?!


----------



## MH.Yang

beijingwalker said:


>


----------



## Avicenna

Foinikas said:


> Is your government actually thinking of it?!



It's an opinion piece.

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## dBSPL

Foinikas said:


> Is your government actually thinking of it?!


Never. Those who want the S400s must first overthrow Erdogan.

On the other hand, the main reason why some Atlanticist politicians bring up the Slovakian and Greek S300s may be the S400s in Turkey. However, such a thing is not only politically, but also technically impossible.

Already, the SSB announced that they closed the F-35 book forever just before the start of the Ukraine war.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

nang2 said:


> which half?



I think he said his ma is Chinese.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

tower9 said:


> Truly delusional. So these idiots are expecting China to help destroy Russia only to be followed by the West isolating and destroying China after Russia falls. Truly delusional thinking.



Why should China help the US when the US arms Taiwanese traitors to slaughter Chinese people?

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## nang2

dBSPL said:


> WSJ was once a respected media outlet. Now it has become the media of trolls and so-called expert, dumbs.


They have to. They are under tremendous pressure in the eyeball era. Few people take their time reading serious articles. To survive, they have to attract eyeballs, too. The more sensational it is, the better.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> I think he said his ma is Chinese.


Yeah, I got that in his later posts.

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## Meengla

tower9 said:


> Truly delusional. So these idiots are expecting China to help destroy Russia only to be followed by the West isolating and destroying China after Russia falls. Truly delusional thinking.



Yup. 
Countries like China and Turkey know what's coming for them--if not now, then later. America, acting from a safe distance, not just claims the western hemisphere but also claims the whole globe! And Europeans are in some shell-shock mental state from the previous two World Wars, unable to take independent stand and it is Europe to bear the pain--once again. If this goes out of hand, then Europe is going to burn the 3rd time in barely a century. And China and America will benefit.

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## Foinikas

dBSPL said:


> Never. Those who want the S400s must first overthrow Erdogan.
> 
> On the other hand, the main reason why some Atlanticist politicians bring up the Slovakian and Greek S300s may be the S400s in Turkey. However, such a thing is not only politically, but also technically impossible.


Our Chief of Staff said today that the Armed Forces are not giving the S-300s and I think it would be weird if the Turkish government gave the S-400s too. It's just stupid. In the end,if the yankees want to help Ukraine so much,let them spend their own money and weapons.

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## nang2

MH.Yang said:


> This is a poem I wrote for general Huo Qubing when I was 16. I hope you can understand it.
> 
> I have never posted this poem on the Internet, so no one can search it. People who don't understand Chinese can't understand it.
> 
> 弱冠初仕羽林郎，
> 披甲扶剑辞吾皇。
> 少年骁勇负胆气，
> 笑随烈候出定襄。
> 踏破漠北七千里，
> 骠骑将军镇渔阳。
> 匈奴嫁妇失颜色，
> 封狼居胥擒胡王。
> 天妒英才冠军候，
> 百死不悔为汉殇。
> 
> Can you talk about this poem and prove that you know Chinese?
> 
> If you can correctly interpret this poem, I believe no Chinese member will doubt that you are half Chinese.


The dude is a much younger version of Patton born 2000 years earlier.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Destruction of the APU communication center by an unmanned aerial vehicle



A camouflaged communication center of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, discovered in a forest area, was disabled by a high-precision missile weapon from an unmanned aerial vehicle.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504766072788037655



dBSPL said:


> WSJ was once a respected media outlet. Now it has become the media of trolls and so-called expert, dumbs.



WSJ, NYT, CNN, and Washington Post plus the State Department are truly run by trolls nowadays. They wanted Poland to give their planes and take the risk of Russian retaliation. Once the Poles told them we'll give you the planes in exchange for American warplanes and you can give it to Ukrainians, they couldn't because it wasn't a decision that the Pentagon and WH supported at the time. These trolls want someone else takes the risk, not them.

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## tower9

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Why should China help the US when the US arms Taiwanese traitors to slaughter Chinese people?


Stop trolling dude


----------



## Foinikas

Meengla said:


> Yup.
> Countries like China and Turkey know what's coming for them--if not now, then later. America, acting from a safe distance, not just claims the western hemisphere but also claims the whole globe! And Europeans are in some shell-shock mental state from the previous two World Wars, unable to take independent stand and it is Europe to bear the pain--once again. If this goes out of hand, then Europe is going to burn the 3rd time in barely a century. And China and America will benefit.


Ah but China will eventually betray Russia... 

*22. Hieroschemamonk Seraphim (Vyritsky) of Moscow (+1942): *

"When the East will get stronger, everything will become shaky. Numbers are on their side. But not only that: they have sober workers and industrious people, while there is such drunkenness with us. There will come a time when Russia will be torn into pieces. At first they will divide it, and then they will begin to steal its wealth. The West will do everything to help the destruction of Russia and for a time will give its eastern part to China. The Far East will fall into the hands of Japan, and Siberia - to the Chinese, who will begin to move into Russia, marry Russian women and in the end by cunning and craftiness will seize the territory of Siberia as far as the Urals. But when China will want to go further, the West will resist and will not allow it. The East will be baptised in Russia. The whole heavenly world, together with those on earth, understand this, and pray for the enlightenment of the East."

*23. Elder Theodosius (Kashin) of Minvody (+1948), shortly after the outbreak of war with Germany in 1941: *

"Do you really think that that was the war (1941-45)?! The war is still to come. It will begin from the east. And then from all sides, like locusts, the enemies will spread over Russia... That will be the war!"

The elder said that the collapse of Russia, in spite of her apparent strength and the cruelty of the authorities, would take place very quickly. At first the Slavic peoples will be split off, then the Union republics will fall away: the Baltic, Central Asia and Caucasian republics and Moldavia. After this central power in Russia will weaken still more, so that autonomous republics and regions will begin to separate themselves. Then a great collapse will take place: the power of the Centre will cease to be recognized de facto by the autonomous regions, which will try to live independently and will no longer pay any attention to orders from Moscow. The greatest tragedy will be the seizure of Siberia by China. This will not take place through military means: in consequence of the weakening of the authorities and the open frontiers, masses of Chinese will move into Siberia, will snap up property, enterprises and flats. By means of bribery, intimidation and agreements with the authorities, they will gradually take control of the economic life of the towns. Everything will take place in such a way that one morning the Russians living in Siberia will wake up in a Chinese state. The destiny of those who remain there will be tragic, but not hopeless.

The West will assist this creeping conquest of our land and in every way support the military and economic might of China out of hatred for Russia. But then they will see the danger for themselves, and when the Chinese try to conquer the Urals, this time by military might, and go even further, they will by all means hinder this and will even be able to help Russia in deflecting the invasion from the East. Russia must stand her ground in this battle; after sufferings and complete impoverishment she will find in herself the strength to recover.

To the question: What will happen to Ukraine and Belorussia? The elder replied that everything is in the hands of God. Those among those people who are against union with Russia even if they consider themselves to be believers will become servants of the devil. The Slavic peoples have one destiny, and the monastic Fathers of the Kiev Caves [Lavra] will yet utter their weighty word - they together with the choir of the new martyrs of Russia will by their prayers obtain a new Union of the three brother peoples.


----------



## Apollon

Meengla said:


> Yup.
> Countries like China and Turkey know what's coming for them--if not now, then later. America, acting from a safe distance, not just claims the western hemisphere but also claims the whole globe! And Europeans are in some shell-shock mental state from the previous two World Wars, unable to take independent stand and it is Europe to bear the pain--once again. If this goes out of hand, then Europe is going to burn the 3rd time in barely a century. And China and America will benefit.



Thats wrong. Infact EU for first time thinks strategic. Russia is a facist dictatorship and enemy of Europe. We dont need USA to understand this. Russia wanted to forge some eurasian empire under moscow leadership and we wont allow this to happen. Thats exactly the reason why we act so harsh and strict against russia now. 

If we dont act now, Poland and Baltics would be next. Even Germany would be endangered. And with all due respect but russia is such a disgusting place, i dont want live under their leadership. 

And no Europe will not burn. Russia is so weak it cant even take Ukraine. Its clear they would not stand a chance against western military


----------



## tower9

Meengla said:


> Yup.
> Countries like China and Turkey know what's coming for them--if not now, then later. America, acting from a safe distance, not just claims the western hemisphere but also claims the whole globe! And Europeans are in some shell-shock mental state from the previous two World Wars, unable to take independent stand and it is Europe to bear the pain--once again. If this goes out of hand, then Europe is going to burn the 3rd time in barely a century. And China and America will benefit.


Destroying Russia, China and Europe all together is in the interest of the US. That’s how the US became an undisputed superpower after ww2 because it was the only one standing. The Russia sanctions will destroy Europe’s industries and China is also next on the list. China would have to be stupid to go along with this plan. If decoupling is inevitable, China will accelerate it.

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## MH.Yang

nang2 said:


> The dude is a much younger version of Patton born 2000 years earlier.


It would be too simple to explain just who general Huo Qubing is. Google can do it. 

I mean, explain what "弱冠" "羽林郎" "定襄" "渔阳" "汉殇"means, who "烈候" "吾皇" means, and so on. 

If he can explain these details and allusions clearly, we have no reason to doubt his Chinese level.

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## tower9

Foinikas said:


> Ah but China will eventually betray Russia...
> 
> *22. Hieroschemamonk Seraphim (Vyritsky) of Moscow (+1942): *
> 
> "When the East will get stronger, everything will become shaky. Numbers are on their side. But not only that: they have sober workers and industrious people, while there is such drunkenness with us. There will come a time when Russia will be torn into pieces. At first they will divide it, and then they will begin to steal its wealth. The West will do everything to help the destruction of Russia and for a time will give its eastern part to China. The Far East will fall into the hands of Japan, and Siberia - to the Chinese, who will begin to move into Russia, marry Russian women and in the end by cunning and craftiness will seize the territory of Siberia as far as the Urals. But when China will want to go further, the West will resist and will not allow it. The East will be baptised in Russia. The whole heavenly world, together with those on earth, understand this, and pray for the enlightenment of the East."
> 
> *23. Elder Theodosius (Kashin) of Minvody (+1948), shortly after the outbreak of war with Germany in 1941: *
> 
> "Do you really think that that was the war (1941-45)?! The war is still to come. It will begin from the east. And then from all sides, like locusts, the enemies will spread over Russia... That will be the war!"
> 
> The elder said that the collapse of Russia, in spite of her apparent strength and the cruelty of the authorities, would take place very quickly. At first the Slavic peoples will be split off, then the Union republics will fall away: the Baltic, Central Asia and Caucasian republics and Moldavia. After this central power in Russia will weaken still more, so that autonomous republics and regions will begin to separate themselves. Then a great collapse will take place: the power of the Centre will cease to be recognized de facto by the autonomous regions, which will try to live independently and will no longer pay any attention to orders from Moscow. The greatest tragedy will be the seizure of Siberia by China. This will not take place through military means: in consequence of the weakening of the authorities and the open frontiers, masses of Chinese will move into Siberia, will snap up property, enterprises and flats. By means of bribery, intimidation and agreements with the authorities, they will gradually take control of the economic life of the towns. Everything will take place in such a way that one morning the Russians living in Siberia will wake up in a Chinese state. The destiny of those who remain there will be tragic, but not hopeless.
> 
> The West will assist this creeping conquest of our land and in every way support the military and economic might of China out of hatred for Russia. But then they will see the danger for themselves, and when the Chinese try to conquer the Urals, this time by military might, and go even further, they will by all means hinder this and will even be able to help Russia in deflecting the invasion from the East. Russia must stand her ground in this battle; after sufferings and complete impoverishment she will find in herself the strength to recover.
> 
> To the question: What will happen to Ukraine and Belorussia? The elder replied that everything is in the hands of God. Those among those people who are against union with Russia even if they consider themselves to be believers will become servants of the devil. The Slavic peoples have one destiny, and the monastic Fathers of the Kiev Caves [Lavra] will yet utter their weighty word - they together with the choir of the new martyrs of Russia will by their prayers obtain a new Union of the three brother peoples.


That’s nonsense and typical orientalist scaremongering propaganda. 

China will support Russia and the reason is very simple. Because if Russia falls, China is next. Why would China attack Russia when the west is constantly attacking China? Makes zero sense. 

China today is not interested in land grabs. That’s a boneheaded 19th century mentality. Today’s empires are built on commerce and tech and that’s what China is completely focused on.

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## nang2

Apollon said:


> Thats wrong. Infact EU for first time thinks strategic. Russia is a facist dictatorship and enemy of Europe. We dont need USA to understand this. Russia wanted to forge some eurasian empire under moscow leadership and we wont allow this to happen. Thats exactly the reason why we act so harsh and strict against russia now.
> 
> If we dont act now, Poland and Baltics would be next. Even Germany would be endangered. And with all due respect but russia is such a disgusting place, i dont want live under their leadership.
> 
> And no Europe will not burn. Russia is so weak it cant even take Ukraine. Its clear they would not stand a chance against western military


You basically assume Russia or Putin is completely insane and wants to forge a new empire with some crappy military. The first tank biathlon in 2013 should have revealed to the world how crappy Russian tanks are. Chinese 2nd-grade tanks can shoot while running. Russian tanks can't.

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## Foinikas

tower9 said:


> That’s nonsense and typical orientalist scaremongering propaganda.
> 
> China will support Russia and the reason is very simple. Because if Russia falls, China is next. Why would China attack Russia when the west is constantly attacking China? Makes zero sense.
> 
> China today is not interested in land grabs. That’s a boneheaded 19th century mentality. Today’s empires are built on commerce and tech and that’s what China is completely focused on.


No sir,that is things foretold by Saints and Elders of our faith. And there's more. You may not believe it and it's ok,but I would ask you to be respectful at least.


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## nang2

tower9 said:


> That’s nonsense and typical orientalist scaremongering propaganda.
> 
> China will support Russia and the reason is very simple. Because if Russia falls, China is next. Why would China attack Russia when the west is constantly attacking China? Makes zero sense.
> 
> China today is not interested in land grabs. That’s a boneheaded 19th century mentality. Today’s empires are built on commerce and tech and that’s what China is completely focused on.


It is a bit like the reverse of the Korean war. Even back then, Soviet support on China had to take some covert form although their support was far more open than China possibly could this time.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504782547703771140If this news is true, the economic cost of the war will be felt much more deeply. And from another angle it also explains why Russia mainly uses oldschool free-falling bombs.

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## FairAndUnbiased

MH.Yang said:


> It would be too simple to explain just who general Huo Qubing is. Google can do it.
> 
> I mean, explain what "弱冠" "羽林郎" "定襄" "渔阳" "汉殇"means, who "烈候" "吾皇" means, and so on.
> 
> If he can explain these details and allusions clearly, we have no reason to doubt his Chinese level.



He should explain what this event refers to, not just a direct dictionary meaning: 匈奴嫁妇失颜色，封狼居胥擒胡王。


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## Avicenna

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504782547703771140If this news is true, the economic cost of the war will be felt much more deeply. And from another angle it also explains why Russia mainly uses oldschool free-falling bombs.



Why not replenish with Chinese supplied weapons?

Is this even possible?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Avicenna said:


> Why not replenish with Chinese supplied weapons?
> 
> Is this even possible?



Russia has enough hardware.


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## nang2

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504782547703771140If this news is true, the economic cost of the war will be felt much more deeply. And from another angle it also explains why Russia mainly uses oldschool free-falling bombs.


It seems to be normal to me. Before a war, you guess what would work well and what wouldn't. Once the war starts, you know better and then adjust the production for the mistakes in the early assessment.

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## tower9

Foinikas said:


> No sir,that is things foretold by Saints and Elders of our faith. And there's more. You may not believe it and it's ok,but I would ask you to be respectful at least.


Honestly it’s nonsense dude. China can barely even keep young people in dongbei formerly Manchuria, these people are leaving in droves for the rich warm cities of the south. How are they supposed to populate frozen, depressed Siberia?

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## Apollon

nang2 said:


> You basically assume Russia or Putin is completely insane and wants to forge a new empire with some crappy military. The first tank biathlon in 2013 should have revealed to the world how crappy Russian tanks are. Chinese 2nd-grade tanks can shoot while running. Russian tanks can't.



I dont assume. I say what putin said. From Lissabon to Vladivostok...

Dictators usually say exactly how they mean it. Hitlers plans could be read years before in his book. Same with Putin. He wanted to creat a Eurasian Empire as 3rd power next USA and China. He knows Russia is weak and without Europe he has nothing. His demands for a new security architecture show that exactly.

He made the critical mistake to underestimate the european will to counter him. Its not US sanctions that hurt him its europeans. Why had he 380 billion of his assets in Europe? He did not expect Europe to act.


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## nang2

Avicenna said:


> Why not replenish with Chinese supplied weapons?
> 
> Is this even possible?


No. Dumb weapons and dual-use commercial products maybe. Anything sophisticated would be too risky. The single most useful product China can supply is probably an army of commercial DJ drones for recon purpose.

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## tower9

nang2 said:


> It is a bit like the reverse of the Korean war. Even back then, Soviet support on China had to take some covert form although their support was far more open than China possibly could this time.


Not exactly. The USSR was completely committed to North Korea’s survival while China would prefer Ukraine to not have been invaded at all.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

tower9 said:


> Honestly it’s nonsense dude. China can barely even keep young people in dongbei formerly Manchuria, these people are leaving in droves for the rich warm cities of the south. How are they supposed to populate frozen, depressed Siberia?



That's right. Chinese people are not adapted to very cold climate. Even in Canada Chinese people mainly live in southern Ontario and Vancouver area which are the warmest places in Canada. Outer Manchuria is better off as part of Russia than part of China because Outer Manchuria makes Russia and China good neighbors.

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## MH.Yang

Foinikas said:


> No sir,that is things foretold by Saints and Elders of our faith. And there's more. You may not believe it and it's ok,but I would ask you to be respectful at least.


I'm sorry. I'm afraid your elders didn't expect that China would face a serious population problem. 

Even if the Russians give us Siberia, we have no population to develop. We are even having a headache about the negative population growth in Northeast China. 

Now the Russians exploit Siberian resources and sell them to us. Isn't that a better result?

You can't understand the pragmatism spirit of the Chinese people, and the Chinese people can't understand your obsession with territory.

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> No sir,that is things foretold by Saints and Elders of our faith. And there's more. You may not believe it and it's ok,but I would ask you to be respectful at least.



I dont believe in it but respect it. My grandfather also believes such things and we discuss then but i respect his believs


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## tower9

Apollon said:


> I dont assume. I say what putin said. From Lissabon to Vladivostok...
> 
> Dictators usually say exactly how they mean it. Hitlers plans could be read years before in his book. Same with Putin. He wanted to creat a Eurasian Empire as 3rd power next USA and China. He knows Russia is weak and without Europe he has nothing. His demands for a new security architecture show that exactly.
> 
> He made the critical mistake to underestimate the european will to counter him. Its not US sanctions that hurt him its europeans. Why had he 380 billion of his assets in Europe? He did not expect Europe to act.


His words from Lisbon to Vladivostok are taken out of context here. He used them to sell Russia as being part of the EU and thus creating an economic zone stretching from Portugal to Russia. 

Russia is not planning to take on Europe, that’s nonsense and hysteria. It doesn’t have the resources to do that anyways.

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## nang2

Apollon said:


> I dont assume. I say what putin said. From Lissabon to Vladivostok...
> 
> Dictators usually say exactly how they mean it. Hitlers plans could be read years before in his book. Same with Putin. He wanted to creat a Eurasian Empire as 3rd power next USA and China. He knows Russia is weak and without Europe he has nothing. His demands for a new security architecture show that exactly.
> 
> He made the critical mistake to underestimate the european will to counter him. Its not US sanctions that hurt him its europeans. Why had he 380 billion of his assets in Europe? He did not expect Europe to act.


Yet, Hitler had better military and proven in Spanish war. But your assessment on the European is a very interesting one. Fairly convincing.

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## Wood

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504833737883852800
> The Russian convoy that was destroyed yesterday in the Sumy region. Judging by the uniform,a captain was killed


I thought Sumy region was under Russian control already. Seems like it is still resisting


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

tower9 said:


> Not exactly. The USSR was completely committed to North Korea’s survival while China would prefer Ukraine to not have been invaded at all.



Ukraine is America's puppet. America gives Taiwanese traitors weapons to slaughter Chinese people. It is to China's benefit if Ukraine falls to Russia which is China's puppet.

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## dBSPL

nang2 said:


> It seems to be normal to me. Before a war, you guess what would work well and what wouldn't. Once the war starts, you know better and then adjust the production for the mistakes in the early assessment.


According to some, Kyiv would fall in 48 hours. Then they revised it to 1 week. Then they said 3 weeks. Now everything has become completely unclear. With each passing day, Ukraine continues to erode what the Russian economy has accumulated in past 20 years.


Avicenna said:


> Why not replenish with Chinese supplied weapons?
> 
> Is this even possible?



I have the idea that Russia's problem is not about ready-made munition supply, but rather with the supply of some chemicals, intermediates and machinery. Russia already has its own standards, taking another country's missile and integrating it into its own logistics and air platforms cannot be within the scope of an emergency solution. (Also, you cannot deplete the entire ammunition stock. There are numerous reasons for this.)

I think Russia's demand from China is related to the supply of some import items from China, which were previously supplied from Germany.

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## StraightEdge

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504782547703771140If this news is true, the economic cost of the war will be felt much more deeply. And from another angle it also explains why Russia mainly uses oldschool free-falling bombs.



Totally trustworthy source, let's use some common sense here.

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## nang2

tower9 said:


> Not exactly. The USSR was completely committed to North Korea’s survival while China would prefer Ukraine to not have been invaded at all.


I am not sure about that. If USSR was so committed, why did it not block UN from passing the resolution that authorized the counter-offense against North Korea? It had every means to do that but it didn't.



dBSPL said:


> According to some, Kyiv would fall in 48 hours. Then they revised it to 1 week. Then they said 3 weeks. Now everything has become completely unclear. With each passing day, Ukraine continues to erode what the Russian economy has accumulated in past 20 years.


I said production, not war plan.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MH.Yang said:


> I'm sorry. I'm afraid your elders didn't expect that China would face a serious population problem.
> 
> Even if the Russians give us Siberia, we have no population to develop. We are even having a headache about the negative population growth in Northeast China.
> 
> Now the Russians exploit Siberian resources and sell them to us. Isn't that a better result?
> 
> You can't understand the pragmatism spirit of the Chinese people, and the Chinese people can't understand your obsession with territory.



Also, a strong Russia is beneficial to China as a buffer and a puppet.


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## thetutle

MH.Yang said:


> You come from the West and are not as familiar with industrial knowledge as the Chinese, so you really underestimate the difficulty and time of rebuilding the modern industrial system from scratch.
> 
> These are consumables for coal and oil mines. If the supply of consumables is stopped, these mines will be shut down within three days. If the work is stopped for more than three months, these machines need to be overhauled and then scrapped<So if China ZCC.CT group (factory 601, which produces 15% of the world's cemented carbide products) imposes sanctions on Russia, Russia will not be able to produce any resources.>.
> View attachment 825230
> 
> View attachment 825231
> 
> The modern industrial system is a result of the gradual upgrading and accumulation of human beings over a thousand years. If the industrial chain breaks, it will be scrapped quickly, but the reconstruction time will take generations.
> For example, if you want to make penicillin, a necessity of modern mankind, you first need to be able to make freeze-dried powder. If you want to make lyophilized powder, you first need high voltage current. If you want high voltage current, you first need stainless steel, special steel, rubber and electric welding. Synthetic rubber needs organic chemical industry, which needs ethylene manufacturing and aromatics manufacturing. Welding requires electrical systems, which require capacitor manufacturing and mercury arc rectifiers, which require chlorine manufacturing and aluminum industry. Just one penicillin, you need to develop hundreds of industrial links. It takes only a week for China to get resource countries to abandon the dollar, because Chinese have mastered the necessities of life and production consumables they need. The west can't even make light bulbs in a week, because it needs vacuum pumps, and then vacuum pumps need hundreds of advanced technologies.
> Even if Western countries are given a hundred years, they will not be able to rebuild the whole industrial chain from scratch. China is the only country on the blue planet with a complete manufacturing industry.


Sounds like the communist party has totally brainwashed you. If you knew the industrial power of US and Europe, you would be scared.

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## Foinikas

tower9 said:


> Honestly it’s nonsense dude. China can barely even keep young people in dongbei formerly Manchuria, these people are leaving in droves for the rich warm cities of the south. How are they supposed to populate frozen, depressed Siberia?


Maybe in the future you will need more land and its resources. You never know.

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## tower9

Foinikas said:


> Maybe in the future you will need more land and its resources. You never know.


China has enough land. It’s the third largest territory and unlike Canada and Russia, most of that land is in the habitable zone. China’s population will be plateuing soon so the more pressing issue is getting birth rates up not starting disastrous wars against a friendly country to grab frozen territories.

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## jamal18

Foinikas said:


> No sir,that is things foretold by Saints and Elders of our faith. And there's more. You may not believe it and it's ok,but I would ask you to be respectful at least.


Please explain and elaberate.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> If you knew the industrial power of US and Europe, you would be scared.



How will Europe and America invade China? The only way is by sea. China is surrounded by natural land barriers.


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## beijingwalker

thetutle said:


> Sounds like the communist party has totally brainwashed you. If you knew the industrial power of US and Europe, you would be scared.


lOl, here comes a so brainwashed one, can you show us the US and EU industrial power?


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## thetutle

They know they are next. Who will you all support when he invades Kazakstan?


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> They know they are next. Who will you all support when he invades Kazakstan?



Kazakhs are better off being part of Russian empire.









Russian Empire - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Foinikas

tower9 said:


> Honestly it’s nonsense dude. China can barely even keep young people in dongbei formerly Manchuria, these people are leaving in droves for the rich warm cities of the south. How are they supposed to populate frozen, depressed Siberia?


Maybe in the future you will need more land and its resources. You never know.


dBSPL said:


> According to some, Kyiv would fall in 48 hours. Then they revised it to 1 week. Then they said 3 weeks. Now everything has become completely unclear. With each passing day, Ukraine continues to erode what the Russian economy has accumulated in past 20 years.


Man,I don't know what the Russians want right now. It's like Saddam's invasion of Iran. He sent a lot of units but gave them too many targets and eventually they got stuck fighting for 2 years inside Iran.

It's like they sent them in and told them "Do what you think is better" and some said "Ok we'll go for Kiev" others said "We'll go take Donbass" and others said "Ok,we'll take Kharkov" and the ones in Crimea were like "Ok,we'll go take Kherson and everything to Odessa". And the navy's like "Alright,we'll watch you guys". And the Air Force is like "what's a drone?" And the Americans are like "If they are so badly organized,why are we so afraid of them?" And Zelensky is like "When do I get an Oscar?"


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## Wood

thetutle said:


> They know they are next. Who will you all support when he invades Kazakstan?


These people make interesting videos. But I doubt if they are for real. Every time these videos show what an average western audience would like to see. It makes me suspicious

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504849085097992193


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## letsrock

dBSPL said:


> According to some, Kyiv would fall in 48 hours. Then they revised it to 1 week. Then they said 3 weeks. Now everything has become completely unclear. With each passing day, Ukraine continues to erode what the Russian economy has accumulated in past 20 years.


what economy impact? once you can make your own weapons you can make millions of them with barely any economic impact. what are guns, missiles when the basic engineering and tooling is already done ? just metal tubes with some electronic components.

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## dBSPL

tower9 said:


> China has enough land. It’s the third largest territory and unlike Canada and Russia, most of that land is in the habitable zone. China’s population will be plateuing soon so the more pressing issue is getting birth rates up not starting disastrous wars against a friendly country to grab frozen territories.


Maybe Foinikas trying to underlined something else, I don't know. But the general understanding in the western world tends to see Taiwan, which is Chinese territory, and even HK as separate entities. Therefore, even some legitimate demands about terriotoral integrity of China are marketed as expansionism in some other parts of the world.


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## Apollon

tower9 said:


> His words from Lisbon to Vladivostok are taken out of context here. He used them to sell Russia as being part of the EU and thus creating an economic zone stretching from Portugal to Russia.
> 
> Russia is not planning to take on Europe, that’s nonsense and hysteria. It doesn’t have the resources to do that anyways.



Its crushed now anyways. Putin destroyed evrything Russia had with Europe. Even pro russian parties in Europe turned away. Decades of investment all thrown down the drain.

Think about the gas infrastructure alone. Build up in USSR and even in cold war the USSR would never risk those assets but Russia destroyed it all. EU by 2023 plans to cut gas from Russia to zero.

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## tower9

Apollon said:


> Its crushed now anyways. Putin destroyed evrything Russia had with Europe. Even pro russian parties in Europe turned away. Decades of investment all thrown down the drain.
> 
> Think about the gas infrastructure alone. Build up in USSR and even in cold war the USSR would never risk those assets but Russia destroyed it all. EU by 2023 plans to cut gas from Russia to zero.


That’s why I think he made a big strategic mistake.

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## Meengla

tower9 said:


> His words from Lisbon to Vladivostok are taken out of context here. He used them to sell Russia as being part of the EU and thus creating an economic zone stretching from Portugal to Russia.
> 
> *Russia is not planning to take on Europe, that’s nonsense and hysteria. It doesn’t have the resources to do that anyways.*



Yes. There is a lot of non-sense about Russia expanding and even taking on the NATO countries. 
And not only what you say above is correct but also as you said above in a different post that China is facing a demographic problem and hence expansion or conquest of Serbia is too far fetched idea. Future wars will be about water AND maybe even for human resources. Some renewal energy will solve the 'energy' needs. Africa wins as of now on the latter point.
We probably won't be around to see that future.

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## Wood

Russia has been attacking Kyiv from the air but with its forces positioned around the capital, Ukrainians are wondering if a ground attack will be next. Urban warfare expert John Spencer, a former army officer, lists his strategy tips on how to defend Kyiv.


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## tower9

dBSPL said:


> Maybe Foinikas trying to underlined something else, I don't know. But the general understanding in the western world tends to see Taiwan, which is Chinese territory, and even HK as separate entities. Therefore, even some legitimate demands about terriotoral integrity of China are marketed as expansionism in some other parts of the world.


Yes I know how Taiwan is framed. I’m just saying china is not going to invade Siberia, that’s ludicrous.


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## nang2

Apollon said:


> Its crushed now anyways. Putin destroyed evrything Russia had with Europe. Even pro russian parties in Europe turned away. Decades of investment all thrown down the drain.
> 
> Think about the gas infrastructure alone. Build up in USSR and even in cold war the USSR would never risk those assets but Russia destroyed it all. EU by 2023 plans to cut gas from Russia to zero.


That is why I always stress that US is the biggest winner in this conflict. With the sacrifice of Ukraine, it severely damages Russia, forces EU to self-immolate and humbles China. All it has to offer is just some infantry weaponry.

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## thetutle

Wood said:


> These people make interesting videos. But I doubt if they are for real. Every time these videos show what an average western audience would like to see. It makes me suspicious


But who will you support when they do this is Kazakstan?


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## tower9

nang2 said:


> That is why I always stress that US is the biggest winner in this conflict. With the sacrifice of Ukraine, it severely damages Russia, forces EU to self-immolate and humbles China. All it has to offer is just some infantry weaponry.


The US won’t emerge unscathed. The economy here is about to get fucked up due to runaway inflation.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Wood said:


> Russia has been attacking Kyiv from the air but with its forces positioned around the capital, Ukrainians are wondering if a ground attack will be next. Urban warfare expert John Spencer, a former army officer, lists his strategy tips on how to defend Kyiv.



I think Russia will shift strategy and use Iskander strikes from Belarus to pummel Kiev city into surrender. Ukraine don't dare to invade Belarus or Russia.


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## That Guy

coffee_cup said:


> You just shared a propaganda source, I asked for a reliable source.
> 
> By telling that Russian war on Ukraine is about *7000%* more expensive than US war in Afghanistan, you are making everyone chuckle.
> 
> I would strongly suggest these "sources" to hire better propagandists!


LOL

Sure, everything that disagrees with your world view is propaganda.

Once again, pretty clear you didn't actually read the entire thing.


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## nang2

tower9 said:


> The US won’t emerge unscathed. The economy here is about to get fucked up due to runaway inflation.


If only they realize it and act upon it hard. I just saw a news saying it would be very easy for US to freeze close to $3 trillion of China's reserve. I wonder. How stupid are these people? If China decides that it is too risky and releases these dollars, the inflation would be worse.

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## Amliunion

That Guy said:


> LOL
> 
> Sure, everything that disagrees with your world view is propaganda.
> 
> Once again, pretty clear you didn't actually read the entire thing.


Anything other than what you say is Propaganda. Like Zelensky adviser helped him make $600 Millions $😀


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504862195737411592

Edit: Posting the Link for Moderators:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Russia lost nearly all of their best tanks on Ukraine with most of them not firing a single shot? How could anyone here know this? Why wouldn't they fire a single shot unless UAF or Ukrainian operated drones have struck all the many thousands of tanks without those tanks firing a shot. You...



defence.pk

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## That Guy

tower9 said:


> Sure you can say that, but the Russians aren’t facing Nazi germany today either. Also keep in mind that in the early stage of the war, the soviets took massive losses in territory and population. Russia has only gained territory in Ukraine despite some heavy losses and logistical issues.


Heavy losses is what Russia can't afford at this point, considering how much support Ukraine is getting. Their grip on held territory is tenuous at best, and the fact that they STILL don't have air superiority to the point that they seem to have given up on trying to achieve it, is not a good sign for them.

This war has been extremely costly. After this, they will no longer be viewed as a near peer rival any longer. This has been an exercise in humiliation.


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## Meengla

nang2 said:


> That is why I always stress that US is the biggest winner in this conflict. With the sacrifice of Ukraine, it severely damages Russia, forces EU to self-immolate and humbles China. All it has to offer is just some infantry weaponry.



China also wins big. And perhaps wins even bigger than America. We will have to see how China and America interact with each other after the dust from this conflict settles down. If China manages to tie down American attention and resources to Europe then the Pacific theater can't have the same kind of attention. Already China has removed the 'strategic ambiguity' that Russia portrayed and now Russia is, for the foreseeable future, very much in China camp. BTW, who can totally discount a war like this barely six months after the NATO withdrawal from Afghanistan?? 
*We will have to see how things pan out. We are witnessing an event not seen since World War 2!*


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504861082917158912


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## Foinikas

jamal18 said:


> Please explain and elaberate.


A lot of Russian Orthodox Saints,Elders,as in holy men,nuns and other very pious people who died in the 19th,20th and 21st century,mentioned that there would be a big war between Russia and China in the future. Some mention that the Chinese will grab land through various means,then there would be a big war between the Russians and the Chinese where millions of soldiers would die. The Chinese will reach the Urals and stop there.

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## That Guy

Amliunion said:


> Anything other than what you say is Propaganda. Like Zelensky adviser helped him make $600 Millions $😀
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504862195737411592


LOL, nice attempt at copying what I said and trying to throw it back at me, it was a failure, but nice try. I'm sure you'll do better next time.

Why does this matter where he got the money from?

Fucking George W Bush/Barack Obama/Donald J Trump/Joe Biden could have personally given him the money and told him to spread his legs, and it still wouldn't matter.

You are making a worthless point.

@LeGenD At this point, this guy is trolling.


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## tower9

nang2 said:


> If only they realize it and act upon it hard. I just saw a news saying it would be very easy for US to freeze close to $3 trillion of China's reserve. I wonder. How stupid are these people? If China decides that it is too risky and releases these dollars, the inflation would be worse.


I have zero confidence in the competence of US govt officials. The state department is purely focused on foiling Russia and China and they don’t give a damn about the welfare of the American people, who are going to get fucked big time.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504855044021264386


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## nang2

Meengla said:


> China also wins big. And perhaps wins even bigger than America. We will have to see how China and America interact with each other after the dust from this conflict settles down. If China manages to tie down American attention and resources to Europe then the Pacific theater can't have the same kind of attention. Already China has removed the 'strategic ambiguity' that Russia portrayed and now Russia is, for the foreseeable future, very much in China camp. BTW, who can totally discount a war like this barely six months after the NATO withdrawal from Afghanistan??
> *We will have to see how things pan out. We are witnessing an event not seen since World War 2!*


Most win China get is information. This conflict reveals something China may face should it invade Taiwan. That information is priceless. I would expect softer diplomatic attitude that follows to promote CIFS, gradual reduction of US treasury and increased import of gold.

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## Amliunion

That Guy said:


> LOL, why does this matter?
> 
> Fucking George W Bush/Barack Obama/Donald J Trump/Joe Biden could have personally given him the money and told him to spread his legs, and it still wouldn't matter.
> 
> You are making a worthless point.
> 
> @LeGenD At this point, this guy is trolling.



You are asking moderator to help you? I can share your posts wherein you've mentioned that Zelensky made $600 Millions with help of his advisors? I am stating facts, why are you afraid of it?

Edit: On this Page there are your Posts:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Russia lost nearly all of their best tanks on Ukraine with most of them not firing a single shot? How could anyone here know this? Why wouldn't they fire a single shot unless UAF or Ukrainian operated drones have struck all the many thousands of tanks without those tanks firing a shot. You...



defence.pk


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## Wood

thetutle said:


> But who will you support when they do this is Kazakstan?


I'm a beneficiary of NATO protection which I'm glad to pay for with my tax $. So you can easily estimate where my loyalties will lie


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504662274979422213

The Ukrainians are actively using Starlink to help in targeting of Russian forces

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## That Guy

Amliunion said:


> You are asking moderator to help you? I can shate your posts wherein you've mentioned that Zelensky made $600 Millions with help of his advisors? I am stating facts, why are you afraid of it?


Where's the quote? Pretty sure the entire comment chain was me trying to prove how pointless stating his networth was.

I'm asking the mods for help because you're derailing the thread by trolling. Last time I didn't tell a mod, I got in trouble for it.

Okay, seriously, I'm done for a long while, I just came to take a final check, probably won't have reliable internet for a long while.


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## nang2

tower9 said:


> I have zero confidence in the competence of US govt officials. The state department is purely focused on foiling Russia and China and they don’t give a damn about the welfare of the American people, who are going to get fucked big time.


There may be some who is tough and clear headed. Like Fed's chairman Volcker around 1980.


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## jamahir

jhungary said:


> I am half Chinese, I know what Chinese people think I live in China for over a decade, have you?
> 
> And no, you cannot be with Russia and not inflict damage on Chinese own economy. How hard is it for you to understand? If you don't want damage done to your economy, you can't support Russia, which is being sanctioned at the moment. You are saying you want to play with fire but don't want to get burn.......





beijingwalker said:


> You were born in US, where is the US flag?





Meengla said:


> For every one of you as 'Chinese' there are a million Chinese unlike you. Perhaps you are a 'CBBD' (Chinese Born Confused Desi)?? Indians and Pakistanis know that category well! BTW, this claiming to know a country and its latest geopolitical situation because of your ancestry or claiming to know all military matters because you might have served in military decades ago is akin to a psychiatrist claiming to be a heart surgeon!
> China is behind Russia! And will be to the extent of China's own interests not getting affected. But feel free to believe otherwise.... Chinese here and in other forums won't find it hard to shred your 'logic' to pieces if you continue on this path...





Tai Hai Chen said:


> I think he said his ma is Chinese.





MH.Yang said:


> It would be too simple to explain just who general Huo Qubing is. Google can do it.
> 
> I mean, explain what "弱冠" "羽林郎" "定襄" "渔阳" "汉殇"means, who "烈候" "吾皇" means, and so on.
> 
> If he can explain these details and allusions clearly, we have no reason to doubt his Chinese level.



@Musings, @jhungary is the same person who claimed some days ago that he lived in Venezuela in his childhood and knew Hugo Chavez personally. So is he really a half-Chinese-ancestry person who had lived in Venezuela ? Now, Hugo Chavez became president in 1999 and JHungary said, IIRC, that he had been a soldier in the American military in Iraq in 2003 and after. JHungary's timeline of events in his life confuse me. And now that the forum's Chinese members have questioned him on his Chinese language and history skills he is not replying.



StraightEdge said:


> Totally trustworthy source, let's use some common sense here.



This newspaper is the source source that declared that in the first five days of the war Russia had lost 300 tanks. Yeah, totally trustworthy source.  



thetutle said:


> They know they are next. Who will you all support when he invades Kazakstan?





Wood said:


> These people make interesting videos. But I doubt if they are for real. Every time these videos show what an average western audience would like to see. It makes me suspicious



I have mentioned this interview vid before some pages back. The vid was posted as a thread by @beijingwalker. Contrary to what TheTutle is saying there is a girl in the vid who says that if Russia gets down to fight against the world ( meaning the Western bloc ) then Kazakhstan will fight the world alongside Russia.

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504662274979422213
> 
> The Ukrainians are actively using Starlink to help in targeting of Russian forces


Does Russia demonstrate similar capability in this conflict?


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Foinikas said:


> A lot of Russian Orthodox Saints,Elders,as in holy men,nuns and other very pious people who died in the 19th,20th and 21st century,mentioned that there would be a big war between Russia and China in the future. Some mention that the Chinese will grab land through various means,then there would be a big war between the Russians and the Chinese where millions of soldiers would die. The Chinese will reach the Urals and stop there.
> 
> View attachment 825276
> 
> 
> View attachment 825275
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 825279
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 825281



Does your therapist know you are on the internet again?



Wood said:


> Does Russia demonstrate similar capability in this conflict?



Russia has military recon satellites, GLONASS, drones. Similar.


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504865460805898253


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## Kraetoz

Wood said:


> Does Russia demonstrate similar capability in this conflict?


Go ahead and implement no-fly zone and see for yourself what Russia is capable of. Why is the west so afraid?

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## Amliunion

That Guy said:


> Where's the quote? Pretty sure the entire comment chain was me trying to prove how pointless stating his networth was.
> 
> I'm asking the mods for help because you're derailing the thread by trolling. Last time I didn't tell a mod, I got in trouble for it.
> 
> Okay, seriously, I'm done for a long while, I just came to take a final check, probably won't have reliable internet for a long while.



I have faith in Moderators. Let's see how they react.

Edit: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/page-789


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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> I still yet to see you come to any of my post I quoted you and challenge me. I mean, If what I wrote is just copy and paste collection, then you should be able to read it up and start challenge me by now, right?
> 
> Then why I never heard back from you? I am waiting, I am all game, I can talk to you about anything in the Military. How to operate a M1 Abrams, How to use a M82 rifle, how to use a Manpad (yeah, I also didn't see you answer that question about MANPAD @dBSPL ask, I did tho)
> 
> Talk is cheap bro, act on it, do something, call me out if you think I am really that fake?



The burden of proof is on you.

It is you who claim to be Chinese.

Who claim to have been posted in Iraq, Afghanistan, Cuba, Australia, Arctic, Mars and God knows where .... and you want us to believe it.... and then you havent produced any proof for that. Any fake internet troll can do that. Unless as you produce some credible proof for that

AFA talking about other military stuff, big deal? Anyone with a little brain can research on any military term in the internet and copy/paste stuff.


With that, as wrote earlier... carry on... you give us some good giggles in these darker times,

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hitting a factory in Mariupol. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504829361844797454

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## coffee_cup

That Guy said:


> LOL
> 
> Sure, everything that disagrees with your world view is propaganda.
> 
> Once again, pretty clear you didn't actually read the entire thing.



What is to be read?... you are saying Russia is spending $ 20 billion a day, which is like 7000% more than the most expensive war of our recent memories fought by the USA in Afghanistan.

That is plain bullshyt. Use some common sense. Dont just blindly believe in everything that you read or watch.

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## Foinikas

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Does your therapist know you are on the internet again?


Said the guy who gets banned every week and has a score of -48

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## Dustom999

jamahir said:


> @Musings, @jhungary is the same person who claimed some days ago that he lived in Venezuela in his childhood and knew Hugo Chavez personally. So is he really a half-Chinese-ancestry person who had lived in Venezuela ? Now, Hugo Chavez became president in 1999 and JHungary said, IIRC, that he had been a soldier in the American military in Iraq in 2003 and after. JHungary's timeline of events in his life confuse me. And now that the forum's Chinese members have questioned him on his Chinese language and history skills he is not replying.
> 
> 
> 
> This newspaper is the source source that declared that in the first five days of the war Russia had lost 300 tanks. Yeah, totally trustworthy source.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have mentioned this interview vid before some pages back. The vid was posted as a thread by @beijingwalker. Contrary to what TheTutle is saying there is a girl in the vid who says that if Russia gets down to fight against the world ( meaning the Western bloc ) then Kazakhstan will fight the world alongside Russia.





coffee_cup said:


> The burden of prood is on you.
> 
> It is you who claim to be Chinese.
> 
> Who claim to have been posted in Iraq, Afghanistan, Cuba, Australia, Arctic, Mars and God knows where .... and you want us to believe it.... and then you havent produced any proof for that. Any fake internet troll can do that. Unless as you produce some credible proof for that
> 
> AFA talking about other military stuff, big deal? Anyone with a little brain can research on any military term in the internet and copy/paste stuff.
> 
> 
> With that, as wrote earlier... carry on... you give us some good giggles in these darker times,


I don't think US Army allows Chinese citizens ( currently holding Chinese citizenship) into Officer cadre probably not even after obtaining US citizenship. Not so sure how it works.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504848378454319108


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## Wood

Kraetoz said:


> Go ahead and implement no-fly zone and see for yourself what Russia is capable of. Why is the west so afraid?


I meant this co-ordination between drone and artillery. Why would Russia need a no fly zone for that?


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504869675213205510

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## Ali_Baba

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504485596944691209I'm so sad for the Russian people they are fast returning to the era of the soviet depression



Well - lol - Putin wants to recreate the old Soviet Empire - part of that is learning to queue again on rationed food items and where you can have any colour clothing as long as it is comrade friendly "grey" ...

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> Dude, do you even understand what is a Challenge?
> 
> I have already proof my stuff, I AM WAITING ON YOU TO CHALLENGE MY KNOWLEDGE
> 
> I mean, if you think anyone with a little brain can research on military term and copy and paste stuff, then why can't you do it and use it to challenge me?
> 
> Again, talk is cheap, everyone have a mouth can talk, but you have to have stuff to talk game, now I am telling you I am game, you can pick one Army topic, ANY topic, and you can challenge my knowledge and I can discuss anything with you, if you can't do that, then, you are just talk.
> 
> Again, put it into action, I dare ya.



Prove it that you have been posted in Iraq, Afghanistan, Venezuela, Australia, Arctic... wherever.

Prove that you are Chinese.

No, you cant? Ok, this was expected.

Now keep evading it and writing collection of thousands of random words.

Keep entertaining us,

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504818051774095368

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## jamal18

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504709650180194306


Kraetoz said:


> Go ahead and implement no-fly zone and see for yourself what Russia is capable of. Why is the west so afraid?


I cannot comprehend how some politicians are talking about a 'no-fly' zone .

Do they think that we are dealing with Botswana?

Whatever your view, a third world war is not a desirable solution.

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## coffee_cup

German Chancellor Scholz calls Putin and asks for ceasefire.

Lets hope sanity prevails!

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504869517591199746

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504869520162361358

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504869532162265102

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504847690739331077

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## Paul2

MH.Yang said:


> I'm sorry. I'm afraid your elders didn't expect that China would face a serious population problem.
> 
> Even if the Russians give us Siberia, we have no population to develop. We are even having a headache about the negative population growth in Northeast China.
> 
> Now the Russians exploit Siberian resources and sell them to us. Isn't that a better result?
> 
> You can't understand the pragmatism spirit of the Chinese people, and the Chinese people can't understand your obsession with territory.



Outer northeast is truly ours， illegally annexed through an illegal treaty signed under coercion by incompetent， illegitimate government in its death throes。

Its our arable lands， it's Han land， and we lived there for centuries。 Russians there just force us to pay to use our own land， We pay them for Chinese soy grown by Chinese farmers， on Chinese land because of connivance of the party （which itself is also an import from Russia。）

It's 2 to 3 times of our entire land suitable for crop cultivation，and our food security independence

https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/闯关东



MH.Yang said:


> You can't understand the pragmatism spirit of the Chinese people, and the Chinese people can't understand your obsession with territory.



Ask people in Beijing why they are obsessed with a 3000 times smaller mountain island without fresh water in the south sea


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504870815615131650


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504873578717712401

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504874430509588480


dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504485596944691209I'm so sad for the Russian people they are fast returning to the era of the soviet depression



This is Fake!

FYI:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504769991928918024

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## Oublious

They should tell Putin thay they lost the war.... 



Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504873578717712401




Wich game is it?

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## Amliunion

Oublious said:


> They should tell Putin thay they lost the war....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wich game is it?



I don’t which game it is? Apparently, information Warfare. We should wait for war to end then only we shall be able to conclude which side has won?


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## Messerschmitt

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504869532162265102




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504877430846152713

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504876551699144707


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## Dustom999

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504874430509588480
> 
> 
> This is Fake!
> 
> FYI:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504769991928918024


Party that throws out fakes and mis-quoted information for propaganda purposes is always at an advantage on internet.
They just come up with bullshit and then you have to get to bottom of it and find out the reality / truth. _thus you need to put in much more effort and time. By the time you are done debunking the original post, propagandists has moved on to his new lies. And then once again you are burdened with more work. 
That is also the reason that fake news works so well on interweb, because most people either do not have time/ resources or simply inclination to find out the truth. _

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504877911257632779


Dustom999 said:


> Party that throws out fakes and mis-quoted information for propaganda purposes os always at an advantage on internet.
> They just come up with bullshit and then you have to get to bottom of it and find out the reality / truth. _thus you need to put in much more effort and time. By they time you are done debunking the original post, propagandists has moved on to his new lies. And then once again you are burdened with more work.
> That is also the reason that fake news works so well on interweb, because most people either do not have time/ resources or simply inclination to find out the truth. _



At the end of the war: Party which wins the war will define that Propaganda or information Warfare failed . My two cents.


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## Wergeland 2.0

nang2 said:


> That is why I always stress that US is the biggest winner in this conflict. With the sacrifice of Ukraine, it severely damages Russia, forces EU to self-immolate and humbles China. All it has to offer is just some infantry weaponry.



you are probably correct
but it applies only on the short term
on the long term USA could be the biggest looser here


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## Tamerlane

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504847690739331077



Canada used to have enough military to go moose hunting. Now we've been reduced to hunting beavers.

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## Vergennes

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504873578717712401



@jamahir Still waiting for you to also tell those who post several times absurd Russian released video like these where you can spot from 45km it is fake. Russians lack so much footage that they have to come with such footages that their funboys would believe are real.


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## Apollon

Considering how bad Russia performs in Ukraine i say negotiations should be only option B. Russia already stalls at all fronts and the new systems that USA provide can take out the russian artillery. We already see that Russia starts to stop shelling simply because lack of ammo and its collapsing logistics. A war victory is far more devastating than a negotiation victory for Ukraine. At moment i would opt for a total military victory against Russia and no negotiations until their artillery is crippled.


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## Amliunion

Vergennes said:


> @jamahir Still waiting for you to also tell those who post several times absurd Russian released video like these where you can spot from 45km it is fake. Russians lack so much footage that they have to come with such footages that their funboys would believe are real.



The Tweet I have posted is from the Pro Ukrainian account.


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## Paul2

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504877430846152713










Near Kerson

It's very easy to see what's happening.

Ukrainians made a small attack on a village in between Mikolaiv, and Kerson to bait out Russian counterattack.

The moment they got into the open field, Ukrainian artillery already been waiting them.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504779148501340161

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## Amliunion

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504779148501340161



Plane landed safely, Pilot is safe & carrying other missions in Ukraine.


Source: ASB Military News Telegram


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## alimobin memon

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504818051774095368


Point is they didnt leave their man behind

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## Meengla

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> you are probably correct
> but it applies only on the short term
> on the long term USA could be the biggest looser here



IF and only IF Russia manages to achieve its goal in Ukraine, which at the minimum would be a bifurcation of Ukraine along the Dnipier River and consolidation of the positions in the held area, along with cutting off Ukraine's sea access, then, yes, Russia will become a big headache for America and its allies and a constant source of friction, requiring attention and using resources by the West. While that would happen, China would get less attention and as in the last few decades the Chinese grew stronger and stronger while America kept spending its resources on foreign wars...
And I don't think that scenario is impossible though unlikely.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504883564621484043


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## Apollon

Meengla said:


> IF and only IF Russia manages to achieve its goal in Ukraine, which at the minimum would be a bifurcation of Ukraine along the Dnipier River and consolidation of the positions in the held area, along with cutting off Ukraine's sea access, then, yes, Russia will become a big headache for America and its allies and a constant source of friction, requiring attention and using resources by the West. While that would happen, China would get less attention and as in the last few decades the Chinese grew stronger and stronger while America kept spending its resources on foreign wars...
> And I don't think that scenario is impossible though unlikely.



Its impossible simply because Europe crushs Russia to the point it cat even holds its own territory. Thats what Russia did not expect. This is not an american issue but an issue of Europe. We want Putinism destroyed and wont stop before this achieved. Germany alone did rise its defense budget so much, it became Nr. 3 military budget globally.


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## LeGenD

Titanium100 said:


> My overview analysis of this is that the Americans are overwhelmed by this geostragetic occurances and partially due to their policies for the last 30 years because they have been cannibalizing their allies over irrelevant matters example even NATO itself is splitted and at it's weakest point where Germany and France are not on the same page and all that is due to the cannibalism that was taking place but Biden Admin took it to a whole new level and it is coming back to haunt them as an axis that is powerful has appeared..
> 
> Example just listen to this report and they are surprised by the overwhelming support Russia is getting in China and it seems like they have been living under a rock if anything China may join this war if it spreads to Europe on Russia side making this report naive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have been cannibalizing their own NATO allies and MENA allies because they got to comfortable in the passing years that they became to over-confident and now everything is crashing down.
> 
> They were spying on Germany for years and keeping their military weak on purpose, undermining the French and trying to contain Turkey and limit them including trying to create irrelevant quagmires for MENA allies.. Also annoying everyone with irrelevant NGO human right activists..
> 
> While completely being oblivious to the fact that their empire is coming to an end nor knowing where the chellenge is coming from.
> 
> Right now if WW3 breaks out Europe will fall to Russia-China because everyone else will assume neutrality in the old world because they don't trust the US even Israel will assume neutrality and they can't logistically fight toe to toe with Russia and China in the old world due to logistical reasons because they don't have land-corridor to the Eurasian continent. They will be forced to watch Europe fall entirely to Russian-Chinese forces if they want to commit to an all out offensive campaign.
> 
> All of West Europe will fall easier then Ukraine after an intense nuclear campaign because they won't attack NATO unless it is via Nuclear warfare..
> 
> The threat the US is facing is alot more credible then most assume. Biden Admin is definitely not coming back to power because it has cannibalized allies and the US will focus on re-gaining allies but unsure whether they will succeed as the other side will also be doing charm offense to prevent and on the other hand NATO itself could split as France may leave the alliance.
> 
> West Europe alone can't take on an axis of China-Russia


Dude, you seem to live in alternate reality. Putin administration's ill-advised expedition in Ukraine has galvanized much of Europe (and NATO by extension).

Mighty Russia is suffering heavy losses in Ukraine on the other hand:









Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine







www.oryxspioenkop.com













Ukraine war: Russian loses a fourth general, Kyiv claims


Major-General Oleg Mityaev, 47, commander of the army's 150th motorised rifle division, died fighting around the besieged city of Mariupol, Ukraine has claimed.




www.dailymail.co.uk













The Russian Military’s Debacle in Ukraine


A series of strategic missteps has hampered Putin’s campaign. Will desperation make up for a lack of preparation?




www.newyorker.com





Ukraine did not had much of an army to begin with. But ongoing war in Ukraine shows that numbers are just a part of the calculus. People in Baltics are willing to fight for their way of life and big ticket items are not necessary to inflict heavy losses on invading forces. Modern warfare is increasingly challenging and hybrid in character.

NATO is a fully-networked military force with a number of well-equipped Rapid Reaction Forces (RRF) stationed across Baltics:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504828470299353089
- and on another level of power projection capabilities in comparison to Russia:






Russia’s Involvement In Syria Proves That It's Far Behind The Western World


Russia has made a lot of noise about the modern weapons it has used during combat in Syria and how effective these new weapons are. Fresh Su-34 attack jets scream through the skies, while the latest in small arms test their mettle. But the reality is most of what Russia has used is not as shiny...




jalopnik.com





Russia has substantial military might for Eurasian hemisphere but it is not equipped to handle NATO in the Baltics.

China will *NOT* dispatch its troops to Ukraine or wage war on Europe on behalf of Russia. This is a war that China cannot hope to win even with Russian support on the ground - too much distance and ground to cover in simple terms. Large-scale conventional military operations are very costly to execute in distant lands as well. 

I recall a discussion on these lines in another thread and my assessment is 100% correct.

Post in thread 'If you must be occupy the USA, you can choose 10 countries to form an alliance to launch an attack' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/if-y...ance-to-launch-an-attack.728160/post-13428914

Post in thread 'If you must be occupy the USA, you can choose 10 countries to form an alliance to launch an attack' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/if-y...ance-to-launch-an-attack.728160/post-13429033

Post in thread 'If you must be occupy the USA, you can choose 10 countries to form an alliance to launch an attack' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/if-y...ance-to-launch-an-attack.728160/post-13430056

It won't be easy to take even Taiwan by force. 

Latest headlines:









China’s Xi: Beijing supports peace talks between Russia, Ukraine


Chinese leader says the situation in Ukraine is ‘worrying’ and calls for ‘maximum restraint’ as conflict escalates.




www.aljazeera.com









__





Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov's plane turns around during flight to China, heads back to Moscow: report | Fox News


Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov reportedly was headed to Chine before his flight turned around midway and returned to Moscow, according to a report.




www.foxnews.com













US, China discuss Russia as Biden and Xi hold call


US says Beijing has ‘responsibility to use influence with Putin’ as toll mounts from Russian invasion of Ukraine.




www.aljazeera.com













President Xi Jinping has a video call with U.S. President Joe Biden


China and the United States should shoulder their share of international responsibilities and work for world peace and tranquility, Chinese President Xi Jinping said during a video call with U.S. President Joe Biden Friday.




news.cgtn.com


----------



## jamahir

Vergennes said:


> @jamahir Still waiting for you to also tell those who post several times absurd Russian released video like these where you can spot from 45km it is fake. Russians lack so much footage that they have to come with such footages that their funboys would believe are real.



So is it as fake as the "Ghost of Kiev" pics and vids ? Or those also from the Ukranian side that were debunked by a German member ( unfortunately I don't remember his name ) ? And just today a same vid was posted twice that showed a Russian armored vehicle being hit from a distance and I think one of those two times was you posting. Come on.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504884635687428104


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504884075223527424


----------



## Paul2

LeGenD said:


> Dude, you seem to live in alternate reality. Putin administration's ill-advised expedition in Ukraine has galvanized much of Europe (and NATO by extension).
> 
> Mighty Russia is suffering heavy losses in Ukraine on the other hand:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.oryxspioenkop.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine war: Russian loses a fourth general, Kyiv claims
> 
> 
> Major-General Oleg Mityaev, 47, commander of the army's 150th motorised rifle division, died fighting around the besieged city of Mariupol, Ukraine has claimed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Russian Military’s Debacle in Ukraine
> 
> 
> A series of strategic missteps has hampered Putin’s campaign. Will desperation make up for a lack of preparation?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newyorker.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine did not had much of an army to begin with. But ongoing war in Ukraine shows that numbers are just a part of the calculus. People in Baltics are willing to fight for their way of life and big ticket items are not necessary to inflict heavy losses on invading forces. Modern warfare is increasingly challenging and hybrid in character.
> 
> NATO is a fully-networked military force with a number of well-equipped Rapid Reaction Forces (RRF) stationed across Baltics:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504828470299353089
> - and on another level of power projection capabilities in comparison to Russia:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia’s Involvement In Syria Proves That It's Far Behind The Western World
> 
> 
> Russia has made a lot of noise about the modern weapons it has used during combat in Syria and how effective these new weapons are. Fresh Su-34 attack jets scream through the skies, while the latest in small arms test their mettle. But the reality is most of what Russia has used is not as shiny...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jalopnik.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has substantial military might for Eurasian hemisphere but it is not equipped to handle NATO in the Baltics.
> 
> China will *NOT* dispatch its troops to Ukraine or wage war on Europe on behalf of Russia. This is a war that China cannot hope to win even with Russian support on the ground - too much distance and ground to cover in simple terms. Large-scale conventional military operations are very costly to execute in distant lands as well.
> 
> I recall a discussion on these lines in another thread and my assessment is 100% correct.
> 
> Post in thread 'If you must be occupy the USA, you can choose 10 countries to form an alliance to launch an attack' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/if-y...ance-to-launch-an-attack.728160/post-13428914
> 
> Post in thread 'If you must be occupy the USA, you can choose 10 countries to form an alliance to launch an attack' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/if-y...ance-to-launch-an-attack.728160/post-13429033
> 
> Post in thread 'If you must be occupy the USA, you can choose 10 countries to form an alliance to launch an attack' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/if-y...ance-to-launch-an-attack.728160/post-13430056
> 
> It won't be easy to take even Taiwan by force.
> 
> Latest headlines:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China’s Xi: Beijing supports peace talks between Russia, Ukraine
> 
> 
> Chinese leader says the situation in Ukraine is ‘worrying’ and calls for ‘maximum restraint’ as conflict escalates.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov's plane turns around during flight to China, heads back to Moscow: report | Fox News
> 
> 
> Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov reportedly was headed to Chine before his flight turned around midway and returned to Moscow, according to a report.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.foxnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US, China discuss Russia as Biden and Xi hold call
> 
> 
> US says Beijing has ‘responsibility to use influence with Putin’ as toll mounts from Russian invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> President Xi Jinping has a video call with U.S. President Joe Biden
> 
> 
> China and the United States should shoulder their share of international responsibilities and work for world peace and tranquility, Chinese President Xi Jinping said during a video call with U.S. President Joe Biden Friday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.cgtn.com



@Titanium100 has a point about US spending 30 years "cannibalising allies" I am 100 percent agree.

US, and Biden now got the "get out of jail free card", and a mandate to reset its relationship with allies, and it's still very mixed results, to outright failing even under current circumstances.

This war gave NATO a new raison'd'etre, but not necessarily to US foreign relations.

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Wow Wow:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504724698499854336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504724701456785462

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504724703642017812

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504724708293500943

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504724712366170130
Russian forces are unable to defend against Ukrainian drones at night. That does not bode well for their defense against the incoming Switchblades

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


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## Wood

As per some investigative journalist guy in CNN, Russia has the resources (men and material) to keep the fight going for 2 more months. But after that, Putin will find it difficult to be in the fight without direct help from his allies.

I think two month's time is too long for the defenders to hold the line given Russia's gains so far

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## coffee_cup

===========
In the meanwhile Putin and French president Macron have had a call as well and talked about ending the war.

The number of war refugees has increased to 6.5 million.

Poland has the most refugees.

Reactions: Sad Sad:
1


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## Wergeland 2.0

Meengla said:


> IF and only IF Russia manages to achieve its goal in Ukraine, which at the minimum would be a bifurcation of Ukraine along the Dnipier River and consolidation of the positions in the held area, along with cutting off Ukraine's sea access, then, yes, Russia will become a big headache for America and its allies and a constant source of friction, requiring attention and using resources by the West. While that would happen, China would get less attention and as in the last few decades the Chinese grew stronger and stronger while America kept spending its resources on foreign wars...
> And I don't think that scenario is impossible though unlikely.



I believe its very likely Russia either will annex all territories east of Dnipr or atleast install a Russia-friendly vassal state that will be armed to the teeth. They already have forces in Transnistria and right now forces from Crimea stonghold is moving westwards in order to connect with Transnistria. When that happens Ukraine will be land locked, left with a much smaller territory centred around Lviv.

It makes no sense for Russia to spend so much manpower and war equipment, then just withdraw back completeley with no signifant gains. Taking into consideration the massive sanctions and losses on Russian economy it makes even less sense to give up this massive strategic area.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## Titanium100

coffee_cup said:


> ===========
> The number of war refugees has increased to 6.5 million.



Is this confirmed


----------



## Wergeland 2.0

Wood said:


> As per some investigative journalist guy in CNN, Russia has the resources (men and material) to keep the fight going for 2 more months. But after the, Putin will find it difficult to be in the fight with direct help from his allies.
> 
> I think two month's time is too long for the defenders to hold the line given Russia's gains so far


That is what Hitler also believed. 
Russia is used to circumstances where it must fight back while its on its knees.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504885996638375940


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Kaboom





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=497121402146758


----------



## Kraetoz

jamal18 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504709650180194306
> I cannot comprehend how some politicians are talking about a 'no-fly' zone .
> 
> Do they think that we are dealing with Botswana?
> 
> Whatever your view, a third world war is not a desirable solution.


I completely agree with you. We aren't dealing with Botswana but go through the thread just 3-4 pages to know that pro Western BBC/CNN inspired folks are continuously downplaying Russia's capabilities.

I just ask them if US and NATO are so stronk and Russia is miserably weak, then why don't they try and implement a no-fly zone? So that they could get to see Russia's capabilities and face it themselves rather than hiding behind Ukrainians.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## F-22Raptor

Wood said:


> As per some investigative journalist guy in CNN, Russia has the resources (men and material) to keep the fight going for 2 more months. But after the, Putin will find it difficult to be in the fight with direct help from his allies.
> 
> I think two month's time is too long for the defenders to hold the line given Russia's gains so far




Russian offensive has been stalled for 2 weeks now. As long as Ukraine continues to get weapons and supplies they'll continue to inflict heavy losses on Russia. Their manpower is still well in excess of 200K.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504829151760601088


----------



## jamal18

Kraetoz said:


> I completely agree with you. We aren't dealing with Botswana but go through the thread just 3-4 pages to know that pro Western BBC/CNN inspired folks are continuously downplaying Russia's capabilities.
> 
> I just ask them if US and NATO are so stronk and Russia is miserably weak, then why don't they try and implement a no-fly zone? So that they could get to see Russia's capabilities and face it themselves rather than hiding behind Ukrainians.


Yes, you called the media perfectly. Totally biased, their main task is to brainwash people.

Currently, we are in 'Iraq has nuclear weapons' mode.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504874242323668995

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Meengla

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> I believe its very likely Russia either will annex all territories east of Dnipr or atleast install a Russia-friendly vassal state that will be armed to the teeth. They already have forces in Transnistria and right now forces from Crimea stonghold is moving westwards in order to connect with Transnistria. When that happens Ukraine will be land locked, left with a much smaller territory centred around Lviv.
> 
> It makes no sense for Russia to spend so much manpower and war equipment, then just withdraw back completeley with no signifant gains. Taking into consideration the massive sanctions and losses on Russian economy it makes even less sense to give up this massive strategic area.



You are right that it would be hard for Russia to just vacate the newly acquired territories without getting something significant in return.


----------



## Apollon

Kraetoz said:


> I completely agree with you. We aren't dealing with Botswana but go through the thread just 3-4 pages to know that pro Western BBC/CNN inspired folks are continuously downplaying Russia's capabilities.
> 
> I just ask them if US and NATO are so stronk and Russia is miserably weak, then why don't they try and implement a no-fly zone? So that they could get to see Russia's capabilities and face it themselves rather than hiding behind Ukrainians.




We need no nofly zone. The current supply of MANPADS drones and intelligence is enough to create a no fly zone on russian forces anyways. Its 4 weeks into war and russia gave up in getting air superiority. They lost 10 jets in one day this week. 

We bleed them out. Works fine so far.


----------



## nang2

coffee_cup said:


> Busted!
> 
> US may allow dual citizenship, however.... China *does not allow* dual nationality. So you CAN NOT be US/Australian citizen AND Chinese citizen
> 
> Try better next time. As I said anyone with common sense can smell that you are fake from miles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 中华人民共和国外交部
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mfa.gov.cn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "*Article 3 The People's Republic of China does not recognize dual nationality for any Chinese national.*"
> 
> @beijingwalker is that so?


Hehe, China is an interesting case. Yes, China does not allow dual nationality. But there are plenty ways to maintain dual nationality without China government knowing it.


----------



## Apollon

Meengla said:


> You are right that it would be hard for Russia to just vacate the newly acquired territories without getting something significant in return.



I think at this point we should not give anything to Russia. A military defeat is best we can offer them. We want Putins regime toppled, thats prime objective of Europe. And this objective can best be reached with a defeat His attack already stalled, now its time to destroy his artillery. Once he cant act anymore its game over.


----------



## Kraetoz

Apollon said:


> We need no nofly zone. The current supply of MANPADS drones and intelligence is enough to create a no fly zone on russian forces anyways. Its 4 weeks into war and russia gave up in getting air superiority. They lost 10 jets in one day this week.
> 
> We bleed them out. Works fine so far.


It is a perfect western strategy, i agree with you on that. Plain and simple: Fight Russia till the last Ukrainian but the problem with this strategy is thousands of Ukrainians are being killed and the West shares the responsibility. I am not saying that, Zelensky is saying that.









Zelenskyy: Western nations share ‘responsibility’ for casualties


Ukraine’s president is increasingly frustrated by what he sees as a lack of action to counter Russian aggression.




www.aljazeera.com

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504896783419387919


----------



## MajesticPug

Apollon said:


> We need no nofly zone. The current supply of MANPADS drones and intelligence is enough to create a no fly zone on russian forces anyways. Its 4 weeks into war and russia gave up in getting air superiority. They lost 10 jets in one day this week.
> 
> We bleed them out. Works fine so far.



A lot of hot air and foolish claim. If manpads are as good as you claim, no country needs to field expensive anti-air missile systems like S-400, Patriot, or HQ9's. These systems are expensive and take long training time and personnels to operate compared to Stings. You've been taught but refused to learn or do your own researches. You just like to repeat troll posts and should be banned.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## srshkmr

jhungary said:


> Well, AFAIK you would probably be the one that will get busted....
> 
> @LeGenD
> 
> Well, I tried. But this is the reason why I don't like to come back and post here. Well, probably is a mistake.


Start ignoring the replies, i know its tempting but just ignore.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## dbc

FairAndUnbiased said:


> plenty. He has claimed authority to speak about the mainstream Chinese public opinion regarding Ukraine per claim #6 due to his extensive knowledge of Chinese culture and immersion in Chinese society.
> 
> He opened the door to this line of questioning. I am merely listing all his other claims to call to question this assertion.
> 
> This is integrally related to the Ukrainian situation regarding Chinese public opinion of said situation.



I don’t care about his ethnicity but I do appreciate his military insight. On a defense forum, we have less than a handful, as a matter of fact I count three military professionals among us. if you have a problem with his flag go to GHQ please.

thank you.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


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## That Guy

coffee_cup said:


> Busted!
> 
> US may allow dual citizenship, however.... China *does not allow* dual nationality. So you CAN NOT be US/Australian citizen AND Chinese citizen
> 
> Try better next time. As I said anyone with common sense can smell that you are fake from miles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 中华人民共和国外交部
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mfa.gov.cn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "*Article 3 The People's Republic of China does not recognize dual nationality for any Chinese national.*"
> 
> @beijingwalker is that so?


I logged in again at the sheer stupidity of this logic.

That's literally not how any of this works.

Just because China doesn't recognize dual nationality, doesn't mean dual national Chinese don't exist. It just means that China recognizes the person as their sole citizen.

Also, his professional title HAS TO BE VERIFIED BY THE ADMINISTRATION IN ORDER TO GET THE TITLE, he has ALREADY proven himself. Any further questioning of his title can and will result in negative ratings, as well as a report to the mods/administration.

@LeGenD @The Eagle @WebMaster @Horus


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> Russian offensive has been stalled for 2 weeks now. As long as Ukraine continues to get weapons and supplies they'll continue to inflict heavy losses on Russia. Their manpower is still well in excess of 200K.


I've been thinking about food supplies for Ukrainian population. Millions of people are trapped in a place where food production has come to an halt. Baking bread is one thing, but who can keep supply of grains? US/EU countries can supply arms for months or even years, but how will it be possible to feed the Ukrainian civilians from outside food? Logistically, this will be a nightmare


----------



## Apollon

Kraetoz said:


> It is a perfect western strategy, i agree with you on that. Plain and simple: Fight Russia till the last Ukrainian but the problem with this strategy is thousands of Ukrainians are being killed and the West shares the responsibility. I am not saying that, Zelensky is saying that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zelenskyy: Western nations share ‘responsibility’ for casualties
> 
> 
> Ukraine’s president is increasingly frustrated by what he sees as a lack of action to counter Russian aggression.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com



In war sacrifices have to be made. Freedom is born with blood and doesnt come for free. This is Ukraine war for freedom and we help them with powerful weapons, intelligence and endless support.

Putin has already lost this war, even the most russian loyal ukrainians hate russia now so as cynicl as it may sound...this strategy is better than any no flight zone. Western weapons cause extreme high damages on russia, on same time russian economy is crushed. Russia can only react with harsher bombardment which creates even stronger hate in Ukraine against Russia. On the other hand Russia faces a Ukraine with an endless stream of advanced weapons.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## MajesticPug

Huffal said:


> You are uploading old footage/news. Please stop this



This guy keeps repeating his troll posts. Perhaps he believes truth is telling lies a thousand times.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504899991621488645

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## jhungary

srshkmr said:


> Start ignoring the replies, i know its tempting but just ignore.


Probably going to have to ignore this entire forum from now on.


----------



## MajesticPug

Wood said:


> I've been thinking about food supplies for Ukrainian population. Millions of people are trapped in a place where food production has come to an halt. US/EU countries can supply arms for months or even years, but how will it be possible to feed the Ukrainian civilians from outside food? Logistically, this will be a nightmare



Food supplies to refugees are not the West's (government level) concern, in case you haven't found out.


----------



## That Guy

coffee_cup said:


> What is to be read?... you are saying Russia is spending $ 20 billion a day, which is like 7000% more than the most expensive war of our recent memories fought by the USA in Afghanistan.
> 
> That is plain bullshyt. Use some common sense. Dont just blindly believe in everything that you read or watch.


In other words, you're literally just proving my point.


----------



## Apollon

MajesticPug said:


> A lot of hot air and foolish claim. If manpads are as good as you claim, no country needs to field expensive anti-air missile systems like S-400, Patriot, or HQ9's. These systems are expensive and take long training time and personnels to operate compared to Stings. You've been taught but refused to learn or do your own researches. You just like to repeat troll posts and should be banned.




Seem quite effective when we see the number of dead russians. Last week alone 17.000 manpads were delivered to Ukraine. They have so much of them, they even use them against russian trucks and cars. Good luck on controlling that. Thats the thing you dont get, Ukraine doesnt need S-400 and bullshit like this. They have russian soldiers in their country, soft targets. How you kill a bus with russian soldiers with S-.300 and patriot? You cant, you use MANPADS and Panzerfaust for that.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504901046237376519


----------



## srshkmr

jhungary said:


> Probably going to have to ignore this entire forum from now on.


I have been following your posts, your posts when you started posting on this thread was informative. Please do continue. Ignoring helps. Ignore for 2-3 posts they wont tag or reply anymore.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Kraetoz

Apollon said:


> In war sacrifices have to be made. Freedom is born with blood and doesnt come for free. This is Ukraine war for freedom and we help them with powerful weapons, intelligence and endless support.
> 
> Putin has already lost this war, even the most russian loyal ukrainians hate russia now so as cynicl as it may sound...this strategy is better than any no flight zone. Western weapons cause extreme high damages on russia, on same time russian economy is crushed. Russia can only react with harsher bombardment which creates even stronger hate in Ukraine against Russia. On the other hand Russia faces a Ukraine with an endless stream of advanced weapons.


So you are trying to dictate whats best for Ukrainians when i quoted Zelenskyy? Just awesome. Zelenskyy wants a no-fly zone and not your weapons or support or lip service but the problem is west wants to use Ukrainian blood for their own freedom. Why don't West give their own blood for freedom of Ukrainians if they care so much?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## coffee_cup

That Guy said:


> In other words, you're literally just proving my point.



Now that you are threatening me to give negative ratings, what is the point in discussing?

Russian war expenses in Ukraine of $20 billion per day defy any common sense and logic. 

War is expensive, yes. Russia will pay heavy price, hell yes... but will it be $7 trillion / year of pure war expenses whereas USA had in all the 20 years of Afghan war spent a total of $2,3 trillion makes absolute no sense.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## F-22Raptor

Apollon said:


> Seem quite effective when we see the number of dead russians. Last week alone 17.000 manpads were delivered to Ukraine. They have so much of them, they even use them against russian trucks and cars. Good luck on controlling that. Thats the thing you dont get, Ukraine doesnt need S-400 and bullshit like this. They have russian soldiers in their country, soft targets. How you kill a bus with russian soldiers with S-.300 and patriot? You cant, you use MANPADS and Panzerfaust for that.



Just FYI, MANPADS are anti-air weapons like Stingers. Your referring to anti tank/armor weapons like Javelins and NLAWS.


----------



## That Guy

Amliunion said:


> I have faith in Moderators. Let's see how they react.
> 
> Edit: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/page-789


Lol, sure. @LeGenD is he derailing this Russian-Ukranian war thread by talking about Zelensky's financial situation, which is unrelated to this war thread?

Also, I literally say on that page, who cares and that it doesn't matter where he got the money from. You are literally making a worthless point.

Putin is a multibillionaire, and he got his money through corruption, and investment as well.

Who cares?

What matters is this war. Talking about these two's financial situation is literally derailing the thread.

It's like mentioning that Lavrov sent his kids to the west to live in, while deriding the west as evil. Who cares? It's has nothing to do with the thread topic.


----------



## jhungary

srshkmr said:


> I have been following your posts, your posts when you started posting on this thread was informative. Please do continue. Ignoring helps. Ignore for 2-3 posts they wont tag or reply anymore.


Well, it's hard to ignore, and I do know most people are on my side but then this really a killjoy.

I mean I am more than happy to discuss issue with someone, anyone, and I am happy to do it, but then these stuff is what kill people interest. I mean, I have better things to do than to either reply to troll or reporting troll. I mean, I come here to discuss, how often is Russian fighting another peer enemy, I don't care which side were you on, this is going to be once in a lifetime event. But then well. 

I felt like I press report button a lot more than the typing what I think about the war.


----------



## Kraetoz

coffee_cup said:


> Now that you are threatening me to give *negative ratings*, what is the point in discussing?
> 
> Russian war expenses in Ukraine of $20 billion per day defy any common sense and logic.
> 
> War is expensive, yes. Russia will pay heavy price, hell yes... but will it be $7 trillion / year of pure war expenses whereas USA had in all the 20 years of Afghan war spent a total of $2,3 trillion makes absolute no sense.


In other words you would be *Sanctioned*. Their go to tool when they lose argument.

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## beast89

StraightEdge said:


> Totally trustworthy source, let's use some common sense here.








Kyiv Independent seems legit

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504902087632691203


----------



## alimobin memon

StraightEdge said:


> Totally trustworthy source, let's use some common sense here.


Nothing is trustworthy...

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## FairAndUnbiased

dbc said:


> I don’t care about his ethnicity but I do appreciate his military insight. On a defense forum, we have less than a handful, as a matter of fact I count three military professionals among us. if you have a problem with his flag go to GHQ please.
> 
> thank you.


I did not question his ethnicity. He also did not make a military claim, he made a claim about Chinese public opinion, which opens the door for this line of questioning.

Just because he's a military professional doesn't mean he has full insight into everything military related unless you mean to say that for instance a mechanic knows about sonar or something. It definitely doesn't remove scrutiny for nonmilitary claims like knowledge of public opinion.

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## That Guy

coffee_cup said:


> Now that you are threatening me to give negative ratings, what is the point in discussing?
> 
> Russian war expenses in Ukraine of $20 billion per day defy any common sense and logic.
> 
> War is expensive, yes. Russia will pay heavy price, hell yes... but will it be $7 trillion / year of pure war expenses whereas USA had in all the 20 years of Afghan war spent a total of $2,3 trillion makes absolute no sense.


For making personal attacks against a titled professional member of the forum, and not for having a (frankly) bad opinion. Such attacks will not be tolerated. @LeGenD @The Eagle @WebMaster

War expenses make more sense when you consider how the wars are going, and what is being used. Iraq was nowhere near as difficult as Ukraine is. It would cost the US 10 times as much to invade Ukraine than it would Iraq, even if they were direct neighbors.

Once again, you're pretending to talk about facts while conveniently forgetting that Iraq and Ukraine are NOT the same.

And once again, you have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you did NOT in fact read the content of the link provided.

Okay, now I really do have to go. This is literally my last reply, as I'm getting yelled at right now.


----------



## Wood

jhungary said:


> Well, it's hard to ignore, and I do know most people are on my side but then this really a killjoy.
> 
> I mean I am more than happy to discuss issue with someone, anyone, and I am happy to do it, but then these stuff is what kill people interest. I mean, I have better things to do than to either reply to troll or reporting troll. I mean, I come here to discuss, how often is Russian fighting another peer enemy, I don't care which side were you on, this is going to be once in a lifetime event. But then well.
> 
> I felt like I press report button a lot more than the typing what I think about the war.


Do you not know this magic trick?






This is better than any MOD privilege in this forum. But the best skill of course is to realize that internet discussions are little more than soliloquy. Do not think that you are talking to real people and what you say or is said to you in the internet matters much

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## Amliunion

beast89 said:


> View attachment 825337
> 
> Kyiv Independent seems legit


Can you please post the Tweet fro. KYIV independent? I don't see any such tweet from them on their timeline.


----------



## MajesticPug

Apollon said:


> Seem quite effective when we see the number of dead russians. Last week alone 17.000 manpads were delivered to Ukraine. They have so much of them, they even use them against russian trucks and cars. Good luck on controlling that. Thats the thing you dont get, Ukraine doesnt need S-400 and bullshit like this. They have russian soldiers in their country, soft targets. How you kill a bus with russian soldiers with S-.300 and patriot? You cant, you use MANPADS and Panzerfaust for that.



There are many ways to defeat Ukraine foot soldiers. You'll see. If the Comedian holds out signing a peace treaty as he engages in his acting in front Western countries' legislative bodies, Ukraine will soon have to sign a surrender. All because of the Comedian is not done with his acting and enjoying the cheers. He probably doesn't realize he's the monkey in the cage and the Western politicians are the zoo attendants enjoying a monkey poking at the bear show.

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## Apollon

Kraetoz said:


> So you are trying to dictate whats best for Ukrainians when i quoted Zelenskyy? Just awesome. Zelenskyy wants a no-fly zone and not your weapons or support or lip service but the problem is west wants to use Ukrainian blood for their own freedom. Why don't West give their own blood for freedom of Ukrainians if they care so much?



Easy, we denie Russia Ukraine and thats about it. Dont talk so naive. We will never give up on this and flood Ukraine with even more weapons. So basicly russian soldiers are an endangered species in Ukraine.

Putin is a autocratic dictator who bases his rule on strength. He appears incredible weak in Ukraine so far. From our point of view its best option to let Ukraine bleed out the pig. It fits also the heroic ukrainian fight for independence trope more.


----------



## Foinikas

jamal18 said:


> Yes, you called the media perfectly. Totally biased, their main task is to brainwash people.
> 
> Currently, we are in 'Iraq has nuclear weapons' mode.


Ah America!

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## Apollon

F-22Raptor said:


> Just FYI, MANPADS are anti-air weapons like Stingers. Your referring to anti tank/armor weapons like Javelins and NLAWS.



MAPADS can also be used against tanks. You can also blow up a russian troop bus with it. Ukraine has so much of this stuff now, they can even use it against russian cars.


----------



## beast89

Amliunion said:


> Can you please post the Tweet fro. KYIV independent? I don't see any such tweet from them on their timeline.


they probs deleted it when people turned it into memes


----------



## Apollon

MajesticPug said:


> There are many ways to defeat Ukraine foot soldiers. You'll see. If the Comedian holds out signing a peace treaty as he engages in his acting in front Western countries' legislative bodies, Ukraine will soon have to sign a surrender. All because of the Comedian is not done with his acting and enjoying the cheers. He probably doesn't realize he's the monkey in the cage and the Western politicians are the zoo attendants enjoying a monkey poking at the bear show.



The bear got multiple stab wounds and is starved. 

There is a reason why bears went extinct in most areas of europe - they are weak and rather stupid animals.


----------



## MajesticPug

Apollon said:


> Easy, we denie Russia Ukraine and thats about it. Dont talk so naive. We will never give up on this and flood Ukraine with even more weapons. So basicly russian soldiers are an endangered species in Ukraine.
> 
> Putin is a autocratic dictator who bases his rule on strength. He appears incredible weak in Ukraine so far. From our point of view its best option to let Ukraine bleed out the pig. It fits also the heroic ukrainian fight for independence trope more.



Don't worry who Putin is. Just look at yourself (your president) and see the monkey in the reflection. The monkey loves cheers and clappings from the attending guests. LOL.. just wait until the bear tears off an arm and leg from the monkey. See who laughs to the end.

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## jamal18

@Foinikas If you control the media, you can lie a thousand times, and get away with it.

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Ah America!
> 
> View attachment 825339



Care to poset the endless stream of russian lies?

"Nobody wants to build a wall"

"Nothing happened in Chernobyl"

"Kursk is perfectly fine"

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## coffee_cup

Russia's biggest cargo airline "Volga-Dnepr" stops using Boeing planes. 18 => 747 and 6 => 737 will not be used anymore.

Is this the result of embargo? Or is it due to political reasons?


----------



## That Guy

Apollon said:


> Easy, we denie Russia Ukraine and thats about it. Dont talk so naive. We will never give up on this and flood Ukraine with even more weapons. So basicly russian soldiers are an endangered species in Ukraine.
> 
> Putin is a autocratic dictator who bases his rule on strength. He appears incredible weak in Ukraine so far. From our point of view its best option to let Ukraine bleed out the pig. It fits also the heroic ukrainian fight for independence trope more.


Putin is a pencil pushing former spy, which is why Russia's influence in Europe was so strong prior to the invasion, to the point that Putin could have someone killed in the middle of a European capital, and the Europeans would do nothing. He is however NOT a soldier, which may explain why this war is going so poorly. Spies don't can't conduct warfare, and it seems his generals were to afraid to tell him that his timetable and plans were too unrealistic.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504876441711910912


----------



## Amliunion

beast89 said:


> they probs deleted it when people turned it into memes



Mate, it is Fake. I follow them on Twitter & didn't see them tweeting it, just gone through there time-line. Apparently, this Tweet is part of Ukrainians Information WareFare. Chechens are fighting shoulder to shoulder with Russian Army.


----------



## Apollon

MajesticPug said:


> Don't worry who Putin is. Just look at yourself (your president) and see the monkey in the reflection. The monkey loves cheers and clappings from the attending guests. LOL.. just wait until the bear tears off an arm and leg from the monkey. See who laughs to the end.



Dude we talk about Russia here...its a depressing shithole whose elite escaped to Europe because life there is unberable. Now they are trapped in that shithole with 6 months of winter. That is enough to laugh. 

Oh and the bear lost his honey pot in Europe.


----------



## Wood

Foinikas said:


> Ah America!
> 
> View attachment 825339


This one is epic  

The first girl was really convincing though. I never could believe that she was lying when I saw the video on YT. Real talent right there


----------



## NotSure

The Palyanitsya base in Nikolaev got a new "kalibration" today, dozents dead and more wounded. Buildings full with sleeping (?) soldiers got hit by cruise missiles. Pure carnage.

Gruesome pictures:



Spoiler: Link to pol and pictures:






https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/367963248/#367964659





























https://****/intelslava/22776

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## Titanium100

Amliunion said:


> Pray for Azon :
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504902087632691203



powerful statement which is true and these guys in mariupol are willing to embrace martyrdom this is gonna be to the last man type of scenerio.. I love such high spirited with emotions attached dog-fights basically a thriller... Either way Mariupol is gonna go down as legendary battle


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504875052856229897

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504766756396703751

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## Apollon

Some russian funerals:


----------



## jhungary

Wood said:


> Do you not know this magic trick?
> 
> View attachment 825338
> 
> 
> This is better than any MOD privilege in this forum. But the best skill of course is to realize that internet discussions are little more than soliloquy. Do not think that you are talking to real people and what you say or is said to you in the internet matters much


I don't think what people said about me matter.

Think about it, I was a minority in a Macho organisation called "The United States Army", you don't know the shit that I need to crawl thru to get to where I am. I don't really care about them, just that I just got frustrated when this has been going on and on and on, and around and around and around and it never get changes.

Call it a test if you would, but those kind of stuff (the repetitiveness) really do drag me down. Don't get me wrong, If I have to list the interaction level, I would rate this forum probably 1 of the top 5. But these type of repetitiveness shit has got to go.

And do you think I have not put people in ignore before? That does not solve anything, Once in a while shit like this will happen, for example, I never even interact with this @coffee_cup or @Dustom999 or whatever the other guy name is before, at least they are no one important I have to remember, but this does not stop this from happening, I suspect maybe he is someone who I used to "deal" with and I am ignored? I don't know. Ignoring him now, and I can guarantee you tomorrow there will be 2 or 3 account doing the same thing

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## jamal18

South Africa's Ramaphosa blames Nato for the war.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504709815314046988

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504902759837052932

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504829488571502599


----------



## Apollon

jamal18 said:


> South Africa's Ramaphosa blames Nato for the war.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504709815314046988



Who you quote next? The head of Andorra? Who Ramaphosa blames is irrelevant, he is a nobody with the power of a school girl.


----------



## coffee_cup

That Guy said:


> War expenses make more sense when you consider how the wars are going, and what is being used. Iraq was nowhere near as difficult as Ukraine is. It would cost the US 10 times as much to invade Ukraine than it would Iraq, even if they were direct neighbors.
> 
> Once again, you're pretending to talk about facts while conveniently forgetting that Iraq and Ukraine are NOT the same.
> 
> And once again, you have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you did NOT in fact read the content of the link provided.
> 
> Okay, now I really do have to go. This is literally my last reply, as I'm getting yelled at right now.



Afghan War and not Iraq war (even though given how many countries the USA has illegally invaded in the last decades it is really hard to keep track)

And this is also my last reply to you.

$20 billion / day as war expense for Russia means $7 Trillion / year which defies all kind of common sense.

The USA has spent *in 20 years *wars fought far from home with very expensive logistics and spent like $2,3 Trillion

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504852596401614854

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504907257624109057
Another batch of Starlinks

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## Foinikas

Wood said:


> This one is epic
> 
> The first girl was really convincing though. I never could believe that she was lying when I saw the video on YT. Real talent right there


I didn't know either,I only found out later. Actually EVERYBODY found out later.

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## Apollon

List of the highest ranking targets so far that got killed by Ukraine.







Crazy how bad russian logistics are that they bring their generals to frontline.

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## alimobin memon



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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504902759837052932




Some guy in a forest. How is this even news?


----------



## Apollon

Current russian losses in Ukraine

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504909380965314562

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504786821686910976


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504909508388311042
Flattened

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504875052856229897



As predicted









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


I'm so sad for the Russian people they are fast returning to the era of the soviet depression This is Fake! FYI:



defence.pk

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## jamal18

Apollon said:


> Who you quote next? The head of Andorra? Who Ramaphosa blames is irrelevant, he is a nobody with the power of a school girl.


So South Africa is on par with Andorra?


----------



## Amliunion

Apollon said:


> Current russian losses in Ukraine



This is Fake. If you will check Ukrainian Defence Ministry Twitter, you'll find out that more than 13K+ fatalities to Russians etc.,


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504827988516511750

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Care to poset the endless stream of russian lies?
> 
> "Nobody wants to build a wall"
> 
> "Nothing happened in Chernobyl"
> 
> "Kursk is perfectly fine"


These quotes started wars you ignorant teenager. 

Except for the Hillary quote.

This propaganda helped the American public to approve wars. Right there with "Assad used chemical weapons"

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## Hassan Al-Somal

*Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry*

▫️The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, continuing the successful offensive, advanced to a depth of 6 kilometers during the day and reached Novoukrainka, Shakhterskoye line.

▫️The units of the People's Militia of the Lugansk Republic, continuing the offensive in the eastern quarters of Severodonetsk, wedged into the enemy's defence for 2 kilometers. 

▫️On the morning of March 18, high-precision long-range weapons attacked Ukraine's military infrastructure. 

▫️As a result of the strike, a parking with Ukrainian combat aircraft at an aircraft repair plant in Lvov, as well as Ukrainian ammunition and military equipment depots in the suburbs of Nikolaev and Voznesensk were destroyed.

💥During the day, Russian air defence means shot down 1 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicle in the air.

✈️💥Operational-tactical and army aviation hit 54 military assets of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Among them: 3 command posts, 4 multiple launch rocket system, 4 ammunition depots and 44 areas of military equipment concentration. 

💥In total, 184 unmanned aerial vehicles, 1,412 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 142 multiple launch rocket systems, 542 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,211 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.

❗️According to reliable information available to us, in Dnepropetrovsk, employees of the Security Service of Ukraine, after evacuating medical staff and patients, mined one of the buildings of the city hospital No. 2, on Nigoyan Street.

▫️The explosion of the mined hospital building will be carried out by Ukrainian Security Service during the flight over Dnepropetrovsk of any Russian aircraft.

▫️I would like to draw your attention, first of all, to the representatives of the Western media who have arrived in Dnepropetrovsk. There were no combat missions to defeat the hospital building, and there are no any other buildings in Dnepropetrovsk for Russian aviation to destroy.

▫️Another attempt by the Kiev nationalist regime to use you to commit a major provocation is doomed to failure.

#Russia #Ukraine #Briefing 
@mod_russia_en


----------



## Amliunion

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504905652606574594

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Current russian losses in Ukraine


More than 12,000 soldiers? 353 tanks? 1,165 armored vehicles? 83 helicopters? 😂

Maybe Zelensky entered Moscow too?

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## Amliunion

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504905652606574594


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504910120282726404


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504911444617404416

The Russians have retreated out of Mykolaiv

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## Amliunion

Foinikas said:


> More than 12,000 soldiers? 353 tanks? 1,165 armored vehicles? 83 helicopters? 😂
> 
> Maybe Zelensky entered Moscow too?



Not sure about Moscow but they should by now have reached Voronezh which shares boarder with Ukraine 

PS: Ukranian Official count is more than 13K+ deceased Russian soldiers.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504912657094168583


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504911676172349445


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504910341624545281
While US and the rest of the West are arming Ukraine, Putin's Russia is waging an economic war on the West by weakening the US Dollar.

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## Amliunion

@Apollon @Foinikas FYI: 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504731052497068039

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## coffee_cup

Latest UNO report:

At least 816 civilian causalities
And 1333 injured



Xi and Biden have spoken and according to Chinese state media common efforts for the peace are needed. Lets hope it succeeds!


----------



## Kraetoz

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504910341624545281


Modi hai toh mumkin hai


----------



## Meengla

jamal18 said:


> @Foinikas If you control the media, you can lie a thousand times, and get away with it.



There IS a chance that Russia, after sacrificing, say, 20,000 soldiers cuts off the Ukraine army in the east to force a surrender and then consolidates its territorial gains and then bargains from that position. They could draw defendable lines, block Ukrainian access to the sea, make Kiev unlivable under the shadow of bombings. And in their consolidated territory, they could ruthless kill insurgents while getting help from the Russian speaking Ukrainians. 
Why am I saying these? Its because I think we all need to be very careful when one side has the total dominance in the media while facts on the ground maybe significantly different. Already there is a talk of a Ukraine capitulation in case the eastern Ukrainian army is neutralized.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504910617949442060

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## Amliunion

Kraetoz said:


> Modi hai toh mumkin hai


WASHINGTON: The White House has said that India would not be violating sanctions if it purchased discounted oil from Russia 








Indian purchase of Russian oil not violation of sanctions: US


US urges all countries to “abide by the sanctions that we have put in place and recommended”.



www.google.com


----------



## Kraetoz

Amliunion said:


> WASHINGTON: The White House has said that India would not be violating sanctions if it purchased discounted oil from Russia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian purchase of Russian oil not violation of sanctions: US
> 
> 
> US urges all countries to “abide by the sanctions that we have put in place and recommended”.
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


White house can not annoy India. Who do you think would fight China for the White house? US will fight China till the last Indian.

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## Flight of falcon

Amliunion said:


> This is Fake. If you will check Ukrainian Defence Ministry Twitter, you'll find out that more than 13K+ fatalities to Russians etc.,




Why not add submarines to the list…. I mean might as well . 
If there were 13000 deaths what happened to the bodies ??? Very few dead are photographed …


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504659735907344387


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504914884852690949


----------



## Flight of falcon

Apollon said:


> List of the highest ranking targets so far that got killed by Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crazy how bad russian logistics are that they bring their generals to frontline.





Yeah they should hide them among civilians populations wearing diapers and giving press conferences ……
Ofcourse war is won by propaganda only….


----------



## Amliunion

Kraetoz said:


> White house can not annoy India. Who do you think would fight China for the White house? US will fight China till the last Indian.



We are never going to fight US war like Ukraine is fighting Russia for US. Period.

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## jamal18

Meengla said:


> There IS a chance that Russia, after sacrificing, say, 20,000 soldiers cuts off the Ukraine army in the east to force a surrender and then consolidates its territorial gains and then bargains from that position. They could draw defendable lines, block Ukrainian access to the sea, make Kiev unlivable under the shadow of bombings. And in their consolidated territory, they could ruthless kill insurgents while getting help from the Russian speaking Ukrainians.
> Why am I saying these? Its because I think we all need to be very careful when one side has the total dominance in the media while facts on the ground maybe significantly different. Already there is a talk of a Ukraine capitulation in case the eastern Ukrainian army is neutralized.


Many sources say that the real fighting is in the east. The destruction of what is an encircled army will significantly improve Russia's bargaining power. It will free up Russian troops to be redeployed west.

If you notice, the '40 mile' Russian convoy north of Kiev stood still for more than a week. Kiev was not the priority.

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## Dustom999

That Guy said:


> I logged in again at the sheer stupidity of this logic.
> 
> That's literally not how any of this works.
> 
> Just because China doesn't recognize dual nationality, doesn't mean dual national Chinese don't exist. It just means that China recognizes the person as their sole citizen.
> 
> Also, his professional title HAS TO BE VERIFIED BY THE ADMINISTRATION IN ORDER TO GET THE TITLE, he has ALREADY proven himself. Any further questioning of his title can and will result in negative ratings, as well as a report to the mods/administration.
> 
> @LeGenD @The Eagle @WebMaster @Horus


Wow! That's quite a threat. Anyway how does that work! That vetted by admin thing? Do admin guys go around asking who is a professional? Like an Email Or something, or is there a form of some sort that need to be submitted.


----------



## Apollon

Putins facist mega event did not go as planned. Crashed mid speech and cut to cringe russian nazi songs

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## Amliunion

Flight of falcon said:


> Why not add submarines to the list…. I mean might as well .
> If there were 13000 deaths what happened to the bodies ??? Very few dead are photographed …


Mate, it's Ukranian Propaganda. Those spread it, I am telling them to spread Propaganda with at least correct figures.

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## Apollon

jamal18 said:


> So South Africa is on par with Andorra?



Andorra is actually better than South Africa. South africa is a shithole.


----------



## Kraetoz

Amliunion said:


> We are never going to fight US war like Ukraine is fighting Russia for US. Period.


I hope that is the case.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504894976479670276


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504845082834395139

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

The Russians have been pushed back to just West of Kherson. That front is not doing well for Russia, especially since they wanted to push on Odessa.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504908185903276033


----------



## beast89

NotSure said:


> The Palyanitsya base in Nikolaev got a new "kalibration" today, dozents dead and more wounded. Buildings full with sleeping (?) soldiers got hit by cruise missiles. Pure carnage.
> 
> Gruesome pictures:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Link to pol and pictures:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/367963248/#367964659
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://****/intelslava/22776


RIP


----------



## Amliunion

Kraetoz said:


> I hope that is the case.



We have differences with China and I hope those can be resolved via Diplomacy. The current war has shown world that you need to defend yourself on your Own. We as a nation is not fool and willing to be used as a Cannon Fodder of US.


----------



## Kraetoz

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504845082834395139


This ladies and gentlemen. Chen Weihua has spoken, no other person needs to tell us that China supports Russia in this conflict.

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## jamal18

Apollon said:


> Andorra is actually better than South Africa. South africa is a shithole.


You seem to live on the forum, pushing the government line. Joined just before the war. Are you sure you're not a member of the UK's 77th brigade psy-war unit?

Or you just haven't got a day job?

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## Foinikas

Amliunion said:


> @Apollon @Foinikas FYI:
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504731052497068039


THE KIEV...Independent 😋

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## Flight of falcon

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians have been pushed back to just West of Kherson. That front is not doing well for Russia, especially since they wanted to push on Odessa.




Ever crossed your CNN infected mind that Russians do not wish to enter heavily populated area and simply want to surround and bomb the city?

Their advance is no way stalled if they never wanted to move forward ….

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## mmr

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504910341624545281
> While US and the rest of the West are arming Ukraine, Putin's Russia is waging an economic war on the West by weakening the US Dollar.




USD is very week now. Because India bought 3 million barrel

Oh no

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> More than 12,000 soldiers? 353 tanks? 1,165 armored vehicles? 83 helicopters? 😂
> 
> Maybe Zelensky entered Moscow too?



You are what we call 5th column buddy. You dont stand with Greece or Europe in general. We dealed with your kind before and will do so again when needed. Remember what happened to DSE members. Papagos knew how to deal with internal enemies.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504637574089957377

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504918001774215172


----------



## Apollon

mmr said:


> USD is very week now. Because India bought 3 million barrel
> 
> Oh no


So a 3rd world country bought oil from another 3rd world country and the deal was made with play money. Big news.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504879314235445252


----------



## NotSure

Foinikas said:


> THE KIEV...Independent 😋


Independent ...from reality.

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## mmr

Apollon said:


> So a 3rd world country bought oil from another 3rd world country and the deal was made with play money. Big news.


but but putler's fanboys on PDF predicting crash of USD


----------



## Amliunion

Apollon said:


> So a 3rd world country bought oil from another 3rd world country and the deal was made with play money. Big news.



Ask EU & USA to sanction the third world country for buying Russian Oil?

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## jamal18

mmr said:


> USD is very week now. Because India bought 3 million barrel
> 
> Oh no


And paying in Rupees. Major development.

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## Apollon

NotSure said:


> Independent ...from reality.


Lass mich raten, Ossi aus Sucksen? 

Just glad you guys have no voting rights in Germany


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> You are what we call 5th column buddy. You dont stand with Greece or Europe in general. We dealed with your kind before and will do so again when needed. Remember what happened to DSE members. Papagos knew how to deal with internal enemies.


Me a 5th column? DSE? Get serious. 

Just because I talk about Western hypocrisy on this matter doesn't mean that I'm a communist. My family's anything but communist. But I can't reveal much here.

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## mmr

jamal18 said:


> And paying in Rupees. Major development.


putler will be able to buy lots of rice with that ruppee.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504919498427670535


----------



## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> Ask EU & USA to sanction the third world country for buying Russian Oil?



Why should we? India is miserable enough. Why beat someone who is already on the floor.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504916368302424066

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## Amliunion

Apollon said:


> Why should we? India is miserable enough. Why beat someone who is already on the floor.



The fact of the matter is Grapes are Sour!

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504841323622371328

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## jamal18

New York Times describing the Azov battalion as 'openly' Neo-Nazis.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504900833602945024


----------



## Foinikas

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians have been pushed back to just West of Kherson. That front is not doing well for Russia, especially since they wanted to push on Odessa.


I don't know what they wanted to do and they don't seem to know what they wanted to do themselves. They don't seem to have a clear target. Like no plan. And no logistics anymore.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504867370518650884

Ukrainian forces having a bit of fun

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Me a 5th column? DSE? Get serious.
> 
> Just because I talk about Western hypocrisy on this matter doesn't mean that I'm a communist. My family's anything but communist. But I can't reveal much here.



We can talk about western hypocrisy when we killed Russia. Before that, we have to stay united.


----------



## Foinikas

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504916368302424066


Ukrainian account using Gothic German fonts,talks about "Nazi Russian Army". It's beyond ridiculous.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Foinikas said:


> I don't know what they wanted to do and they don't seem to know what they wanted to do themselves. They don't seem to have a clear target. Like no plan. And no logistics anymore.



I don't know the strength of the Ukrainian counteroffensive, but if Russia gets pushed out of Kherson, then all Russian forces west of the river are cut off. Pretty dangerous situation for Russia. Wouldn't be surprised if those forces are hauling tail back to Kherson.


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> We can talk about western hypocrisy when we killed Russia. Before that, we have to stay united.


Killed Russia? What are you like,a freemason? Zionist? Evangelical preacher?


----------



## Battlion25

Mariupol could fall at any point now as the Russians and Chechens are competing for the city center

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Ukrainian account using Gothic German fonts,talks about "Nazi Russian Army". It's beyond ridiculous.



Did you notice all russian generals faces are so puffy rounded. Is this a genetic thing or alcoholic abuse? Thats a serious question because i noticed on that post with killed russian generals and colonels. They all have round, puffy faces.

White spread alcoholic abuse can be a reason for their bad decissions.


----------



## Amliunion

Apollon said:


> Buddy, i cant take countries serious that are poor. Sorry.



You are a Keyboard Warrior, nothing else. You are on a Defence forum of a similar Country?  Again Grapes are Sour - US & EU can do zilch against India.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504894976479670276


----------



## MajesticPug

That Guy said:


> Putin is a pencil pushing former spy, which is why Russia's influence in Europe was so strong prior to the invasion, to the point that Putin could have someone killed in the middle of a European capital, and the Europeans would do nothing. He is however NOT a soldier, which may explain why this war is going so poorly. Spies don't can't conduct warfare, and it seems his generals were to afraid to tell him that his timetable and plans were too unrealistic.



There has not been consistent patterns indicatiing Putin has a history of leaving tasks to unprofessional in his administrations. The more likely causes of Russian forces' stagnant progresses in the Ukraine conflict are more of Russia's capabilities. Russian used significantly less smart bombs, precise bombs than American counterparts in Iraq, Syrian, Afghanistan invasions. The reason is simple: *MONEY*. Russia has been sanctioned for a long time (_not just recently_) and its economy has not had any stellar run since the Soviet Union disintegrated. The Russians could develop all these advanced weapons but just didn't have the money to manufacture in great quantities. Yet Russia has huge stock pile of Soviet-era ammunitions that could be used against a technologically-leveled opponent. 

You could tell Russia is very cash-strapped by looking at how slow they upgraded/built their naval ships, fighter jets, etc. Basically Russia relies on its missiles and nuclear bombs to protect the motherland. Putin as well as his generals know very well Russian forces cannot fight NATO in a conventional, modern war. But they knew they could defeat Ukraine because Ukraine's forces depend on even older machines from the Soviet era. Lacking precise weapons, Su-34's and Su-25's have to fly low to bomb and thus left themselves vulnerable to manpads.


----------



## Viet

jamahir said:


> Indeed, Kraetoz, though Indian mainstream electronic media is certainly anti-Russia but generally to your millions we can add the a few million Syrians, then Venezuelans, Cubans and I am sure North Koreans and there was an interview posted by @beijingwalker two or so days ago of Kazakhs on the streets of Almaty and one girl said that if Russia went to war against the world ( yes, Mr. Viet, your "world" ) then her country will be with Russia too.
> 
> However, if Mr. Viet's "world" is what the White House and Number 10 Downing Street show him to be then what can anyone say ?


2/3 of world economic powers support Zellinski even the oil sheik Singapore.
Russia economy today is 25 pct lower than Italy. When this war ends Russia economy will be 75 lower than Italy.

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## LeGenD

I took a short break from the Forum and when I came back, I found conversations in this thread to be out of hand with me getting tagged left, right and center. Dang... 

I have removed a number of off-topic posts.



Paul2 said:


> @Titanium100 has a point about US spending 30 years "cannibalising allies" I am 100 percent agree.
> 
> US, and Biden now got the "get out of jail free card", and a mandate to reset its relationship with allies, and it's still very mixed results, to outright failing even under current circumstances.
> 
> This war gave NATO a new raison'd'etre, but not necessarily to US foreign relations.


I see your point, but European countries also became complacent and decadent?









Trump directly scolds NATO allies, says they owe 'massive' sums


U.S. President Donald Trump on Thursday intensified his accusations that NATO allies were not spending enough on defense and warned of more attacks like this week's Manchester bombing unless the alliance did more to stop militants.




www.reuters.com













Trump lashes Germany over gas pipeline deal, calls it Russia's 'captive'


U.S. President Donald Trump launched a sharp public attack on Germany on Wednesday for supporting a Baltic Sea gas pipeline deal with Russia, saying Berlin had become "a captive to Russia" and he criticized it for failing to raise defense spending more.




www.reuters.com













Germany’s Not Laughing Now – Russia Reverses Gas Flow of Key Pipeline Serving Europe


Your source for the latest news at home and abroad




dcweekly.org





Donald Trump had better judgement of global developments and how to handle them TBH. Pakistan's PM Imran Khan got along with him as well.

I felt the need to address speculations about China and NATO.

I explained how Putin rejuvenated the Western hemisphere in following post:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Does someone know where Mexico stands on this conflict? Has Mexico put sanctions on Russia as well?



defence.pk





Thanks for your pointer nevertheless.


----------



## Battlion25

Russia is galvanzing their populations and Putin has never been this popular. He is reaching a war time hero and almost securing his legacy along side Stalin.. 



















Kremlin says technical glitch behind interrupted Putin speech at stadium


The Kremlin said on Friday a technical glitch was behind the interrupted transmission of Russian President Vladimir Putin's speech to a packed Moscow stadium to mark the eighth anniversary of Crimea's annexation.




www.reuters.com

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## The SC

Ukrainian drones played a major role in the destruction of 9 Russian helicopters at Kherson Air Base on March 15


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504871245904588803

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504925175678132231


----------



## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504919498427670535


What world order should be if you mix Russia imperialism with chinese chauvinism?

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## Paul2

Viet said:


> 2/3 of world economic powers support Zellinski even the oil sheik Singapore.
> Russia economy today is 25 pct lower than Italy. When this war ends Russia economy will be 75 lower than Italy.



Sing is not an oil Sheikh, a gasoline Sheikh may be


----------



## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504916368302424066



Russian Generals are dropping like flies - wow !!!!


----------



## comci

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504045300352266244
> 
> The Chinese are now throwing the Russians under the bus



Source? oh wait you are raptor22, the indonesian guy who post 24/7 for making top dollar for life support. No need for source.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504926523790352386

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## MajesticPug

Amliunion said:


> Mate, it's Ukranian Propaganda. Those spread it, I am telling them to spread Propaganda with at least correct figures.



Many people in the West tend to forget the Ukrainian President was a professional actor and his closest deputies were his former directors, camera men, film techs, and other actors. Since the Ukraine conflict, Ukraine government has churned out tons of fake news and stories aimed to encourage the average Ukrainian citizens to fight Russian tanks with AK-47 and Molotov cocktails AND to mud-sling the Russian soldiers. I don't need to give details of the tearful father-daughter good-bye or the dead climbing out of the body bag stories.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504899202027040772


----------



## NotSure

Apollon said:


> We can talk about western hypocrisy when we killed Russia. Before that, we have to stay united.


Calm down, wannabe Adolf. And go to ukraine to catch some Kalibr CM.


Foinikas said:


> Killed Russia? What are you like,a freemason? Zionist? Evangelical preacher?


He is a nazi, deep inside. So he supports the bandera freaks in kiev, he has a deep and strong sympathy for them. His role model adolf tried the same thing, he is promoting here: Kill Russia.

At the same he calls russians nazis. This guy is total nuts.

Look at this "journalist", he quoted on the ukrainian state tv Adolf Eichmann as a role model for the extermination of russian people:






Everyone who supports todays ukraine is supporting this nazis there.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504896238826700800

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504927947056197637


----------



## Foinikas

NotSure said:


> Calm down, wannabe Adolf. And go to ukraine to catch some Kalibr.
> 
> He is a nazi, deep inside. So he supports the bandera freaks in kiev, he has a deep and strong sympathy for them. His role model adolf tried the same thing, he is promoting here: Kill Russia.
> 
> At the same he calls russians nazis. This guy is total nuts.


He will tell you that he is just democratic

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## MajesticPug

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504841323622371328



Ukrainian people, go ahead and protect the comedian that dragged you to this mess. But I don't think Russian forces want to attack Kiev. Russian forces are rounding up Ukraine's elite forces in the East and will look to exterminate the new-Nazi regiments first. Attacking Kiev is too bloody and will be hugely costly politically in the long run. Once Ukraine's elite forces are decapacitated, Kiev's power supplies will be cut off and supply lines (military or civilian) into Ukraine will be monitored and bombed by UAVs.

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## Battlion25

The Song used during Putin's speech flatout claims Moldova, Crimea, Ukraine, Baltics etc etc.. The song is called ''made in USSR''


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504810608927121425
Ukraine war promo

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502353998212390912

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504928941747884035


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504931220626440194


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504928208378028036

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504928402691788805

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Amliunion

Spoiler: Graphic 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504931935704993799





Spoiler: Graphic 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504932700507066371


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504884635687428104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504883052203462663

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504879991682699275

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504877911257632779


----------



## The SC

Whoever marvels at the Russian losses should rather be amazed by the Russians' ability to extinguish in 24 hours approximately 80 central nodes in the Ukrainian air defense with 150 cruise and ballistic suppression means.

On the other hand, the Americans bombed for more than 12 continuous days with Tomahawk and B-2 stealth bombers, F-15 and F-18 specialized in electronic warfare, and finally AC-130 and A-10 to destroy only 22 central nodes in the Libyan air defenses of Gaddafi..

The following map shows the Russian gains inside Ukrainian territory, from March 11 to 18..

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## Apollon

German Siemens company halts all activity in Russia. Which means the Sapsan highspeed railsystem will be non functional in a matter of weeks. Sapsan is a german made train based on german ICE3 system. Without Siemens maintenance it goes offline within a matter of weeks.





__





Subscribe to read | Financial Times


News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




www.ft.com

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## Battlion25

The SC said:


> Whoever marvels at the Russian losses should rather be amazed by the Russians' ability to extinguish in 24 hours approximately 80 central nodes in the Ukrainian air defense with 150 cruise and ballistic suppression means.
> 
> On the other hand, the Americans bombed for more than 12 continuous days with Tomahawk and B-2 stealth bombers, F-15 and F-18 specialized in electronic warfare, and finally AC-130 and A-10 to destroy only 22 central nodes in the Libyan air defenses of Gaddafi..
> 
> The following map shows the Russian gains inside Ukrainian territory, from March 11 to 18..
> 
> View attachment 825356



Never seen a worse attempt of a doctored map


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504924763671703560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504925971346083850


Battlion25 said:


> Never seen a worse attempt of a doctored map


@catherinalndry

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## EasyNow

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504556682734624776



I really don't get it, if these countries have that much resources - why don't they cultivate it? Why aren't all the citizens rich? 

Russia has enough billionaires to develop any natural resource 10x over. And a population so small even 10% of that wealth will make everyone a millionaire.

These 'natural resource' valuations are all b.s.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504926253006360576


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Have you ever been to,russia? I had a competition in Irkutsk in 2019. The country is degenerated to the core. No infrastructure, poverty galore and very uneducated uncultivated village folks. I hated evry day there. They are completly incompatible with Europe.
> 
> I would feel pathetic if we would fall so deep to ever need their help.


Irkutsk is in the other side of the world. It's a massive country.

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## Wood

EasyNow said:


> I really don't get it, if these countries have that much resources - why don't they cultivate it? Why aren't all the citizens rich?
> 
> Russia has enough billionaires to develop any natural resource 10x over. And a population so small even 10% of that wealth will make everyone a millionaire.
> 
> These 'natural resource' valuations are all b.s.


They are cultivating it. Otherwise they would be more poor than South Asia


----------



## Meengla

Apollon said:


> Im a realist, putinist Russia is a threat for me. Now its weaker than ever before and from a tactical point its best now to kill it off. Once they are deputinized we can see what can be done there.



No, you are not a realist. Russia would be 'deputinized' by nature in 30 years MAX. He's already 70. And Russia, from the west of the Urals, would have gone to its natural destiny as part of Europe. 
This was, as I have repeatedly said here, is basically an American Neocon war to grab Russia's immense riches. They just couldn't wait for Putin to pass away. A Russia without Putin would likely be a Russia of a Yeltsin at worst or a Medvedev at best. *Russia is the Sick Man of Europe* and Putin is probably its last gasp of breath trying to regain some lost imperial dignity. *People like Putin are born once in a century or two*. When they pass away then a whole era ends. History will remember him long after we are gone from this forum or for most of other contemporary leaders. But even with Putin, Russia doesn't have the resources to take on NATO countries. Quit making up wild claims. USSR was also hyped up and that we found out later. Bide your time. The fruit of Russia will fall on the lap of Europe before long.
And stop the damn war.

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## EasyNow

Wood said:


> They are cultivating it. Otherwise they would be more poor than South Asia



I mean $75 trillion in Russia apparently, are they digging it out with teaspoons?


----------



## Wood

EasyNow said:


> I mean $75 trillion in Russia apparently, are they digging it out with teaspoons?


Before they extract even half a much, the world may have no need for fossil fuel. Besides, extraction and distribution will also cost a lot. So these pictures are more for click bait

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## dbc

Amliunion said:


> Ask EU & USA to sanction the third world country for buying Russian Oil?



Russian oil and gas is not sanctioned so far by the EU or the US. The US is happy for Russia to sell heavily discounted oil for worthless Rupees.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504935429770027008


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> German Siemens company halts all activity in Russia. Which means the Sapsan highspeed railsystem will be non functional in a matter of weeks. Sapsan is a german made train based on german ICE3 system. Without Siemens maintenance it goes offline within a matter of weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Subscribe to read | Financial Times
> 
> 
> News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ft.com



Good opportunity for Chinese high speed rail industry to replace German high speed rail industry in Russia.

China's new maglev is a beast.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504925492318769154

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504937312077197325

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## gambit

That Guy said:


> *The Soviet Union is not the Russian federation.*
> 
> If it was the Soviets, Ukraine would has been under complete Soviet control within a matter of days, an Zelensky would have been buried 6 feet under within hours of the invasion.
> 
> The fact that the Soviets took those hits is the reason why Russia's population suffers extreme fluctuations. The Russian Federation can't afford to take such hits, which was the reason behind Russia's modernization plan in the first place.
> 
> Okay, now I'm done.


Maybe had Poutine recognized that, Russia would not be in the sorry state it is today. But think -- and think hard -- about what you said. If the Soviet Union is not the Russian Federation, then why not? But if someone, whoever he/she maybe, does believe the Russian Federation is the the Soviet Union, then why? What evidence, hard or soft, does he/she have to believe that the collapse of the Soviet Union did not changed Russia? So it seems the first sentence of your comment is the foundation of this war, ain't it? That many people all over the world at all levels of society, and in this forum, believed in the opposite that the Russian Federation is *STILL* the Soviet Union. Their ignorance is _flat earth _level despite the evidence arrayed in front of them.

But the support for Russia *IN THIS FORUM* is now clear, that it is a face saving measure for themselves and not of Russia, because they believed that the Russian Federation is *STILL* the Soviet Union, and now, from the military perspective that the Russian military is floundering, they resort to ridiculous self face saving defense like how 'humane' is the Russian Army therefore the war lasted as along as it is. I hope that their countries' military leaderships are filled with people like them.

What you said have been in my mind but I was waiting for anyone with the intellectual courage to cut thru the bullshit, especially the bullshit from the Russia camp, and finally someone with a single sentence finally did it. Congratulations. Too bad I could not give you a trophy thru the interweb ether.
Damn...!!! The Soviet Union is *NOT* the Russian Federation._  _

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

dbc said:


> Russian oil and gas is not sanctioned so far by the EU or the US. The US is happy for Russia to sell heavily discounted oil for worthless Rupees.


INR depreciates a lot and this is by design to some extent. Russia will not agree to this arrangement if it had any choice. At the very least, it would have preferred Yuan. The fact that this deal went through is a testament to the kind of situation that Russia finds itself. GOI cannot resist this temptation at a time when Indian budget deficit is at 6%. If Washington looks the other way, India will even try to pay for S400 in rupees and quickly put an order for S500. By the time Russia converts the rupees into anything useful, it would be worth half as much


----------



## gambit

Kraetoz said:


> We beat Russia to a pulp? Dude NATO and US are scared to implement a no-fly zone, they don't have the balls. They are just fighting Russia till the last Ukrainian.
> 
> In the process of not implementing a no-fly zone because they are scared, they are allowing Russia to beat Ukraine to a pulp. As Zelensky has mentioned it countless times that West is responsible with Russia for thousands of Ukrainians deaths.


*THINK* about what you just said...That the US/NATO lacked the political balls to implement an NFZ. Then contrast that to the reality that the VKS lacked the *TECHNICAL* capability to implement its own NFZ over Ukraine, like how seemingly powerful Russia should be able to do.

Political will can change pretty much in an instant. But not so much for technical skills.


----------



## Meengla

dbc said:


> Russian oil and gas is not sanctioned so far by the EU or the US. The US is happy for Russia to sell heavily discounted oil for worthless Rupees.



More likely, if America loses India then America would be essentially out of the Eurasian continent. India is the last and only real bulwark for American desires in that most crucial region of the world. Related to that... just a few days ago a prominent Indian tv anchor Arnab Goswami boasted on his show saying something like 'we run your information technology' talking to Americans. It was a veiled threat.
Keep outsourcing jobs and manufacturing... Yup, keep doing that on behalf of some hundred corporations and their paid for media and politicians.


----------



## Amliunion

dbc said:


> Russian oil and gas is not sanctioned so far by the EU or the US. The US is happy for Russia to sell heavily discounted oil for worthless Rupees.



Germany & other countries will be buying Russian Oil/Gas at Par with €. On other hand, we'd be getting it at heavily discounted Price using ₹. It's Win-Win situation for us. When we were sanctioned by West, we traded with Russia using Worthless ₹ & negated the impact of sanctions, like wise Russia will do it. 

_Yuan is also an option to trade between us. _

In near future, expect Rupay to replace Visa/Mastercard along with Chinese (they have already started issuing) in Russia. 









Russia, India explore opening alternative payment  channels amid sanctions


Both sides are discussing accepting RuPay and MIR Cards within national payment infrastructures




www.google.com


----------



## jamal18

Peter Hitches saying 'Nato is a menace'. Eastern expansion of Nato cause of the problem.


----------



## tower9

Apollon said:


> Im a realist, putinist Russia is a threat for me. Now its weaker than ever before and from a tactical point its best now to kill it off. Once they are deputinized we can see what can be done there.


You are the farthest thing from a realist. You are a rabid ideologue that sees no reason, and only operates on emotion. And most of that emotion is hatred. 

If you were a realist, you would realize that this war is being provoked by the US to both bate Russia and in turn, will severely damage Europe’s economy. You will gain nothing from this, only suffering.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## gambit

Wood said:


> *If you are given a direct order to bomb a building that you suspect is civilian, will you obey?* I'm curious about what soldiers think is ethical in this scenario. Question open to all military professionals in this forum who are willing to respond. Average civilians like me are curious


I will not.

Am not saying that because of the expediencies in this debate just to make myself 'look good'. I said that because that was how I was trained. That does not mean it is easy to decide either way, especially when a pilot have seconds or even less to decide for himself if the target is a legitimate target. If the target is truly filled with enemy forces, then the pilot have just put his comrades in jeopardy, but if the target is truly filled with civilians, then the pilot just saved them from his weapons. But a decision must be made and *PERSONALLY* if I suspect that my target could be illegal, I would not pickle.

Reactions: Love Love:
1 | Wow Wow:
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## Meengla

tower9 said:


> You are the farthest thing from a realist. You are a rabid ideologue that sees no reason, and only operates on emotion. And most of that emotion is hatred.
> 
> If you were a realist, you would realize that this war is being provoked by the US to both bate Russia and in turn, will severely damage Europe’s economy. You will gain nothing from this, only suffering.



Well, Europeans have the distinction to have waged the two most bloody wars in human history in barely a couple of generations and perhaps the peace of the last 70-80 years was an interval, if you knew the history before that. And if this goes out of hand then expect even bloodier one. Putin is not going to go down without taking others down. He must be given a way out and we should wait for the post-Putin era.

Edit: Had a conversation many years ago with a young WASP friend--I think it was 2006 Hezbollah-Israel conflict. The guy, a liberal, said: 'Don't they always fight each other and kill each other??' I said no, that region had relative peace for centuries until the West got involved.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## dbc

Meengla said:


> More likely, if America loses India then America would be essentially out of the Eurasian continent. India is the last and only real bulwark for American desires in that most crucial region of the world. Related to that... just a few days ago a prominent Indian tv anchor Arnab Goswami boasted on his show saying something like 'we run your information technology' talking to Americans. It was a veiled threat.
> Keep outsourcing jobs and manufacturing... Yup, keep doing that on behalf of some hundred corporations and their paid for media and politicians.



Please, a bulk of the Indian middle class income is linked to off shored support for US and EU businesses. Imagine a 150 million unemployed Indians. That threat from Mr Goswami is still born.

Late last year I was at a forum with CEO's,CTO's and CIO's from some of largest firms on the planet. All of them raised post COVID concerns about dependence on Indian IT - when many Indians were unable to work due to the COVID pandemic raging in India. Many firms are exploring options in Asia, South America and Eastern Europe. 

It isn't an easy problem to solve, we are in this position today because we took economies of scale beyond its logical conclusion and ended up with single points of failure. We are diversifying it will take time, I suspect a decade.

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Love Love:
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## tower9

Meengla said:


> Well, Europeans have the distinction to have waged the two most bloody wars in human history in barely a couple of generations and perhaps the peace of the last 70-80 years was an interval, if you knew the history before that. And if this goes out of hand then expect even bloodier one. Putin is not going to go down without taking others down. He must be given a way out and we should wait for the post-Putin era.


Yes for the first time in my life, I consider the possibility of a full blown nuclear war realistic. That is a terrifying thought.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504953946506420232


----------



## Amliunion

dbc said:


> Please, a bulk of the Indian middle class income is linked to off shored support for US and EU businesses. Imagine a 150 million unemployed Indians. That threat from Mr Goswami is still born.
> 
> Late last year I was at a forum with CEO's,CTO's and CIO's from some of largest firms on the planet. All of them raised post COVID concerns about dependence on Indian IT - *when many Indians were unable to work due to the COVID pandemic raging in India.* Many firms are exploring options in Asia, South America and Eastern Europe.
> 
> It isn't an easy problem to solve, we are in this position today because we took economies of scale beyond its logical conclusion and ended up with single points of failure. We are diversifying it will take time, I suspect a decade.



This is Lying through Theeth. Even when Country was under lockdown, IT services were never stopped. Nice Story though!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood




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## dbc

Amliunion said:


> Germany & other countries will be buying Russian Oil/Gas at Par with €. On other hand, we'd be getting it at heavily discounted Price using ₹. It's Win-Win situation for us. When we were sanctioned by West, we traded with Russia using Worthless ₹ & negated the impact of sanctions, like wise Russia will do it.
> 
> _Yuan is also an option to trade between us. _
> 
> In near future, expect Rupay to replace Visa/Mastercard along with Chinese (they have already started issuing) in Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia, India explore opening alternative payment  channels amid sanctions
> 
> 
> Both sides are discussing accepting RuPay and MIR Cards within national payment infrastructures
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com



it's a win-lose situation, a win for India and lose for Russia. The Russians will be left hanging on to worthless Rupees for the foreseeable future - after all there only so much tea and generic drugs Russia can buy from India.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504956262894772231


----------



## The SC

It looks as if the Chechen soldiers have disciplined an Azov operative


----------



## CrazyZ

Current military trend has been toward more wheeled vehicles. But based on the Russian experiences so far........are simple tracks better then wheels? T-34's and T-55's didn't experience these problems.


----------



## The SC

EasyNow said:


> I really don't get it, if these countries have that much resources - why don't they cultivate it? Why aren't all the citizens rich?
> 
> Russia has enough billionaires to develop any natural resource 10x over. And a population so small even 10% of that wealth will make everyone a millionaire.
> 
> These 'natural resource' valuations are all b.s.


Make everyone a millionaire and no one will want to work..


----------



## dbc

Amliunion said:


> This is Lying through Theeth. Even when Country was under lockdown, IT services were never stopped. Nice Story though!



Well the healthy were busy looking for hospital beds and oxygen while many were sick or dying. Again, the disruptions wasn't mainly attributed to the above but the surging COVID related investment in IT caused a huge shortage in skilled IT workers.

Most large firms on average significantly increased their investment in IT, automation and remote operations post COVID.






Subscribe to read | Financial Times


News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




www.ft.com







https://www.ft.com/content/4b6449da-3fc1-45d7-a0eb-3cd96bc211ce

The pandemic had already rattled the industry when India’s abrupt national lockdown last year forced the sector to shift to remote working practically overnight. “But now, with the disruption, this seems more serious. This feels like it will be worse,” Sikka said. “It’s just the sheer number of people getting sick.” Executives and analysts say many companies have reported as many as 10 per cent of their employees are off with Covid-19. But that number does not include the workers who are busy caring for sick family members.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504910577889538048
Kamil at it again


----------



## Amliunion

dbc said:


> Well the healthy were busy looking for hospital beds and oxygen while many were sick or dying. Again, the disruptions wasn't mainly attributed to the above but the surging COVID related investment in IT caused a huge shortage in skilled IT workers.
> 
> Most large firms on average significantly increased their investment in IT, automation and remote operations post COVID.


As if US & EU were immune from looking for Hospital Beds, Oxygen etc.,? Even in the month of April/May IT services were never impacted. Start a thread on this with source and debate.

Edit: Cherry picking from the Article!!!

FYI : IT Industry working from Remote since March 2020 i.e. since the start of pendamic.















dbc said:


> it's a win-lose situation, a win for India and lose for Russia. The Russians will be left hanging on to worthless Rupees for the foreseeable future - after all there only so much tea and generic drugs Russia can buy from India.



Again You've cherry picked Tea & Generic drugs from the Article posted by me. However, ignored that _Yuan can be used as a common currency to facilitate trade between us? _ This is still work in progress. Only time will tell if this is loss for Russia or not.

Though, it's lose-lose for EU countries Importing Gas/Oil from Russia. They can't even stop Importing it.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504910776259145728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504911074998599687


----------



## Tamerlane

Russian point of view. This guy is a very well respected Russian-American journalist.
Andrei Martyanov on “Does the US have a plan?”'​

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504911169399582727

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504911225079013380


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504960321525628929


----------



## oberschlesier

gambit said:


> Maybe had Poutine recognized that, Russia would not be in the sorry state it is today. But think -- and think hard -- about what you said. If the Soviet Union is not the Russian Federation, then why not? But if someone, whoever he/she maybe, does believe the Russian Federation is the the Soviet Union, then why? What evidence, hard or soft, does he/she have to believe that the collapse of the Soviet Union did not changed Russia? So it seems the first sentence of your comment is the foundation of this war, ain't it? That many people all over the world at all levels of society, and in this forum, believed in the opposite that the Russian Federation is *STILL* the Soviet Union. Their ignorance is _flat earth _level despite the evidence arrayed in front of them.
> 
> But the support for Russia *IN THIS FORUM* is now clear, that it is a face saving measure for themselves and not of Russia, because they believed that the Russian Federation is *STILL* the Soviet Union, and now, from the military perspective that the Russian military is floundering, they resort to ridiculous self face saving defense like how 'humane' is the Russian Army therefore the war lasted as along as it is. I hope that their countries' military leaderships are filled with people like them.
> 
> What you said have been in my mind but I was waiting for anyone with the intellectual courage to cut thru the bullshit, especially the bullshit from the Russia camp, and finally someone with a single sentence finally did it. Congratulations. Too bad I could not give you a trophy thru the interweb ether.
> Damn...!!! The Soviet Union is *NOT* the Russian Federation._ _


LOL, Exactly to the point! How not to like the Americans. I`m always surprise, how many people don`t really get the dynamics in Europe for the last 30 years. Soviet Union USED TO BE Russia + Ukraine + Belorussia + many more. The Rus-Ukr war is something like a back to past soviet civil war. Old thinking vs. New Thinking. Old Soviets vs. Current Reality in Europe. It seems , that Mr. P is really getting old and wants to have his young glory Soviet years back.


----------



## dbc

Amliunion said:


> it's lose-lose for EU countries Importing Gas from Russia.



Why? Russia is continuing to fulfil her contactual obligations to the EU - so why is the EU losing?


----------



## Amliunion

sur said:


> Dedicated to *two certain posters* on this thread *who *are very active *posting images of dead* Rusi soldiers *and can't stop bragging and mocking*:
> I hate to post such images, but those two posters embolden me to do a tit for tat.
> 
> 
> *WARNING - Graphic*​
> 
> 
> Spoiler: bodies of Ukrainian soldiers in Mykolaiv/Nakolaiv
> 
> 
> 
> (source is Swedish)
> 
> View attachment 825373
> 
> 
> View attachment 825374
> 
> 
> View attachment 825375
> 
> 
> View attachment 825376
> 
> 
> View attachment 825377
> 
> 
> View attachment 825379
> 
> 
> View attachment 825380




This post is not dedicated to me, as I have not shared pictures of deceased Russian Soldiers. You've shared the same pictures, shared by me.


----------



## gambit

tower9 said:


> Yes for the first time in my life, I consider the possibility of a full blown nuclear war realistic. That is a terrifying thought.


Really...???

Remember that Xi asked, or more like ordered, Poutine to wait until after the Olympics to attack Ukraine. So did Xi considered Poutine's sociopathy that could, not would, moved the world back to the Cold War yrs mentality? The word 'could' mean 50/50 meaning you hope that the outcome would go into your half, and not the other half. But is hope ever a valid policy especially when the nuclear war option is available? Am sure Xi is practical enough that he does not consider hope. That mean Xi fv<ked up big time in supporting Poutine. And now *YOU* are paying the mental price for that strategic error. You also erred when you ridiculously claimed that somehow Russia and China were baited into the war. Let us say that mentally declining Joe Bidet was smart enough to come up with that plan. Then what does that say about Xi? That Xi was gamed by someone with 1/2 his mental faculties? Maybe Xi should resign. Imagine how powerful the US could be over the world if Bidet had %100 of his head. 

It is still possible, maybe even probable, that Russia will physically win over Ukraine. But is certain, no hope or odds, that Ukraine will win global sympathy and here is the global setback that everyone will seek out people like me who lived thru the Cold War yrs to find out how to prepare themselves against the nuclear threat from Russia and China. You read that correctly, that I said your China is perceived as a nuclear threat because of China's support for Russia. Change can be in either direction, progressive or regressive, and thanks to Russia and China, we will regress a few decades.


----------



## Amliunion

dbc said:


> Why? Russia is continuing to fulfil her contactual obligations to the EU - so why is the EU losing?



Was Russian Gas/Oil is the only Contractual Obligation between US/EU/NATO? Aren't Contractual Obligations which doesn't hurt West been broken? Holier-than-thou!


----------



## Wood

gambit said:


> Maybe had Poutine recognized that, Russia would not be in the sorry state it is today. But think -- and think hard -- about what you said. If the Soviet Union is not the Russian Federation, then why not? But if someone, whoever he/she maybe, does believe the Russian Federation is the the Soviet Union, then why? What evidence, hard or soft, does he/she have to believe that the collapse of the Soviet Union did not changed Russia? So it seems the first sentence of your comment is the foundation of this war, ain't it? That many people all over the world at all levels of society, and in this forum, believed in the opposite that the Russian Federation is *STILL* the Soviet Union. Their ignorance is _flat earth _level despite the evidence arrayed in front of them.
> 
> But the support for Russia *IN THIS FORUM* is now clear, that it is a face saving measure for themselves and not of Russia, because they believed that the Russian Federation is *STILL* the Soviet Union, and now, from the military perspective that the Russian military is floundering, they resort to ridiculous self face saving defense like how 'humane' is the Russian Army therefore the war lasted as along as it is. I hope that their countries' military leaderships are filled with people like them.
> 
> What you said have been in my mind but I was waiting for anyone with the intellectual courage to cut thru the bullshit, especially the bullshit from the Russia camp, and finally someone with a single sentence finally did it. Congratulations. Too bad I could not give you a trophy thru the interweb ether.
> Damn...!!! The Soviet Union is *NOT* the Russian Federation._ _


I'm surprised that the obvious bias of those who talk about great powers BS has escaped your notice. They simply want to see China's influence rival and dominate US/EU influence because it suits their own regional interests. All this talk of NATO enticement for Putin is just pseudo intellectual BS that these people roll with to justify this inhumane invasion to themselves. Best thing is to just ignore their opinions and thank them for their tax $. They help fund the cause of freedom afterall


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504929623729229826


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504965060099203080


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504970171571748868


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

knocked out BTR-4


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504961267144003589

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504940676353560577


----------



## CrazyZ

Any info on Ukrainian IED use? Based on pics of damaged Russian trucks....road side IED's are defiantly being used.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504969005181845507


----------



## fallschirmjager786

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504920449515466760
Not sure if it was posted before. The aftermath of the bombing of Kherson.

Looks like the Russkies are falling out of Kherson. The attack on the UA barracks in Mikolaeyev a going away present.

There's pictures of Russian MLRS and IFVs digging into berms. Looks like their going full on defensive in other parts of Ukraine, Mariuopol will likely fall to them. They will try and hold their gains now.


----------



## jhungary

Dustom999 said:


> Ohh here comes the victim card! Probably Ekta kapoor will be casting you in new daily soap soon.
> Anyway! You just quoted and replied to me in the other thread.
> " I never ever intract with this --...... ". Where is this coming from?
> I am sure you have quoted my posts and replied here in this thread too. Why are you claiming to ignore me? Ohh please dont ignore me, you handsome young soldier! The spy master.
> I know you have been a victim of internet bullying, I am sure US health care will assign you a therapist.


@LeGenD I want to know the exact number of post of this nature a member can make before he/she is getting banned in this thread?

Or can you tell me the ball park figure so I can at least prepare for it?


----------



## fallschirmjager786

Вооруженные силы Украины уничтожили самого высокопоставленного российского генерала с начала войны






dumskaya.net





2 star General dead. How many staff officers have they lost already!!


----------



## jhungary

Okay, let's go back to Business.

24 days in. I think Putin should shot whoever is feeding him Intelligence.

I don't see how the entire operation is sound on the intelligence perspective. 

Putin underestimated the enemy strength, target were not marked and without precision munition, you may as well just level the entire city. 

I don't see if there are any intelligence operation were ever conducted to begin with, there are no pre-invasion assessment. He didn't even know where Zelenskyy is even after tens of high profile call to western leader.

I mean if this is not in intelligence term "Sitting with your thumb up your *** moment" then I don't know what is


----------



## Battlion25

jhungary said:


> Okay, let's go back to Business.
> 
> 24 days in. I think Putin should shot whoever is feeding him Intelligence.
> 
> I don't see how the entire operation is sound on the intelligence perspective.
> 
> Putin underestimated the enemy strength, target were not marked and without precision munition, you may as well just level the entire city.
> 
> I don't see if there are any intelligence operation were ever conducted to begin with, there are no pre-invasion assessment. He didn't even know where Zelenskyy is even after tens of high profile call to western leader.
> 
> I mean if this is not in intelligence term "Sitting with your thumb up your *** moment" then I don't know what is



Come down bro.

It is only 24th day of the war... Wars go on for months or years if necessary we haven't even got started

Reactions: Like Like:
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## gambit

oberschlesier said:


> LOL, Exactly to the point! How not to like the Americans. I`m always surprise, how many people don`t really get the dynamics in Europe for the last 30 years. Soviet Union USED TO BE Russia + Ukraine + Belorussia + many more. The Rus-Ukr war is something like a back to past soviet civil war. Old thinking vs. New Thinking. Old Soviets vs. Current Reality in Europe. It seems , that Mr. P is really getting old and wants to have his young glory Soviet years back.


I have no ties to Ukraine other than knowing that Ukraine used to be a Soviet state and that there are a lot of hot Ukrainian chicks, excuse the typical guy in me. But I am a refugee from communism so for now, I have sympathies for Ukrainian refugees in your Poland and admiration to the ordinary Poles who definitely went above and beyond the call of humaneness to help the Ukrainians.

But as much as I can say positive things to your Poland, the Cold Warrior in me must turn my head towards realpolitiks and that means I believe that as long as Poutine is in power and that China is Russia's ally, your Poland *WILL* be next. Whether Poland is immediately next or next after a previous victim is unknown, twice your Poland was conquered, Germany and the Soviet Union, so what are the odds under Russia? Americans have a saying "Two out of three aint' bad" to mean something is still worth it, but for Poland "Two out of three" is not odds I want to risk. Good luck to Poland, and I mean it.


----------



## oberschlesier

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504970171571748868


in 1939, It took the Germans 2 weeks to penetrate 200 km into PL up to Warsaw and their logistics was based on horses. Yes, Information warfare

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Battlion25 said:


> Come down bro.
> 
> It is only 24th day of the war... Wars go on for months or years if necessary we haven't even got started


Well, in case you have not notice, the longer this war drag on is better for the Ukrainian, not better for the Russian. That is the traditional matrix for all attacker.

That's why Putin tried that risky manoeuvre try to take 5 cities at once. Ended up none.

The first thing of the trouble you can literally see is when the west literally announced Putin plan back in January step by step to the core, that should be a sign for Putin to reassess the situation, because at that point, it render all intel Russia collect up to that point expired, or at least non-active. Set aside the intelligence work by the west, it expose how inadequate Russian Counter Intelligence is. That itself should be a red flag, I mean, if the west know all these, one would wonder, what else did they know?

Plan did not change, and it goes directly as the west said. I mean, what do you really expect when someone told the other guy what your plan was publicly, how you are going to attack and what you are going to attack with and then getting months to prepare for it. And you still execute said plan?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## tower9

gambit said:


> Really...???
> 
> Remember that Xi asked, or more like ordered, Poutine to wait until after the Olympics to attack Ukraine. So did Xi considered Poutine's sociopathy that could, not would, moved the world back to the Cold War yrs mentality? The word 'could' mean 50/50 meaning you hope that the outcome would go into your half, and not the other half. But is hope ever a valid policy especially when the nuclear war option is available? Am sure Xi is practical enough that he does not consider hope. That mean Xi fv<ked up big time in supporting Poutine. And now *YOU* are paying the mental price for that strategic error. You also erred when you ridiculously claimed that somehow Russia and China were baited into the war. Let us say that mentally declining Joe Bidet was smart enough to come up with that plan. Then what does that say about Xi? That Xi was gamed by someone with 1/2 his mental faculties? Maybe Xi should resign. Imagine how powerful the US could be over the world if Bidet had %100 of his head.
> 
> It is still possible, maybe even probable, that Russia will physically win over Ukraine. But is certain, no hope or odds, that Ukraine will win global sympathy and here is the global setback that everyone will seek out people like me who lived thru the Cold War yrs to find out how to prepare themselves against the nuclear threat from Russia and China. You read that correctly, that I said your China is perceived as a nuclear threat because of China's support for Russia. Change can be in either direction, progressive or regressive, and thanks to Russia and China, we will regress a few decades.


The war is occurring because the US is using Ukraine as a pawn and part of an anti Russian crusade. If Ukraine was not being used by nato and was a neutral country, there would be no war.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Battlion25

jhungary said:


> Well, in case you have not notice, the longer this war drag on is better for the Ukrainian, not better for the Russian. That is the traditional matrix for all attacker.
> 
> That's why Putin tried that risky manoeuvre try to take 5 cities at once. Ended up none.
> 
> The first thing of the trouble you can literally see is when the west literally announced Putin plan back in January step by step to the core, that should be a sign for Putin to reassess the situation, because at that point, it render all intel Russia collect up to that point expired, or at least non-active. Set aside the intelligence work by the west, it expose how inadequate Russian Counter Intelligence is. That itself should be a red flag, I mean, if the west know all these, one would wonder, what else did they know?
> 
> Plan did not change, and it goes directly as the west said. I mean, what do you really expect when someone told the other guy what your plan was publicly, how you are going to attack and what you are going to attack with and then getting months to prepare for it. And you still execute said plan?



I am neutral in this conflict..

But we can't bypass the fact that they hold 35% of the country after just 3 weeks of war that gotta count for something besides I don't see this tilt towards Ukraine if this drags on as I question for how long will the Ukrainian moral stay up or their will to fight for the long haul

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## gambit

Wood said:


> *I'm surprised that the obvious bias of those who talk about great powers BS has escaped your notice. *They simply want to see China's influence rival and dominate US/EU influence because it suits their own regional interests. All this talk of NATO enticement for Putin is just pseudo intellectual BS that these people roll with to justify this inhumane invasion to themselves. Best thing is to just ignore their opinions and thank them for their tax $. They help fund the cause of freedom afterall


The bias did not escaped my notice. Every PDF Chinese will support Russia uncritically and will exert great mental gymnastics to portray Russia in a positive light. But I am surprised and disappointed at India.


----------



## thetutle

MH.Yang said:


> I'm sorry. I'm afraid your elders didn't expect that China would face a serious population problem.
> 
> Even if the Russians give us Siberia, we have no population to develop. We are even having a headache about the negative population growth in Northeast China.
> 
> Now the Russians exploit Siberian resources and sell them to us. Isn't that a better result?
> 
> You can't understand the pragmatism spirit of the Chinese people, and the Chinese people can't understand your obsession with territory.


I like the Chinese, very pragmatic and clever, they cant populate an area with their 1.3 billion people buy russia with their 140 million can.

They are happy to pay for resourced that used to be theirs and were taken and are now sold back to them. 

If you even want to go into business with me I would be more than happy. 

If you want, I can even let you pay me rent if I let you live in your own house.


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## jhungary

tower9 said:


> The war is occurring because the US is using Ukraine as a pawn and part of an anti Russian crusade. If Ukraine was not being used by nato and was a neutral country, there would be no war.


NATO never, I say again, NEVER wanted Ukraine. Germany and France is not going to allow them.

Ukraine know that from beginning rejected twice in the last 15 years, there weren't even a membership action plan for Ukraine (there were one for Georgia) 

As I said many time before, why NATO wanted Ukraine when they can do all Putin accused NATO wanted to do in existing NATO member nation. NATO is not a problem Russia make out to be. Hell Russia even sell S-400 to Turkey. 

Putin cannot afford to have a Maidan Style Protest in Russia, and his popularity is going down to toilet, plus people can see Ukrainian started to prosper when Russian economy is tanking. Ukraine doubled their GDP since 2015 from 96 to 220 billions. Russian dropped nearly half from 2.3 trillions to 1.4 Trillions. That alarm Putin. Which is why he painted Ukraine as a big bad bear. Even as he said "they were the same country"


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## Amliunion

oberschlesier said:


> in 1939, It took the Germans 2 weeks to penetrate 200 km into PL up to Warsaw and their logistics was based on horses. Yes, Information warfare



Russia has made grave mistakes, fatalities on their side tells that & Ukrainian been trained by NATO since 2013. They are defending well, no doubt in that.

'Snake Island, The Ghost of Kyiv, Sharing Video Games Footage, Old Videos, Photos, claiming to Sink Russian Ship which turns out to be Fake, Russia taking over Ukraine in 24-48 hours etc., presented as the Gospel Truth.

Eventually, Russia will Win but pay or paying a dear price for it.

I am not a war monger. When I see Plight of Ukrainians, their cities etc., it makes me feel bad.

On other, Zelensky fighting US Proxy War with Russia + West lecturing other on Humanity, Morality etc., piss me off...

Thanks to Information WareFare Putin is Potrayed as Hitler. However, US & EU President/PM who carried out Genocide in Iraq, Libya, Syria etc., bestowed with Nobel Peace Price. That's why I support Russia who been demonized by Monsters & trying to expose thre Hypocrisy!

We live in a Cruel Word.

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## Wood

gambit said:


> The bias did not escaped my notice. Every PDF Chinese will support Russia uncritically and will exert great mental gymnastics to portray Russia in a positive light. But I am surprised and disappointed at India.


In Indian government or mainstream Indian public or Indians in PDF? In my opinion, there are very rational reasons for how these individual groups behave.


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## tower9

Russia has made grave mistakes, fatalities on their side tells that & Ukrainian been trained by NATO since 2013. They are defending well, no doubt in that.


Amliunion said:


> 'Snake Island, The Ghost of Kyiv, Sharing Video Games Footage, Old Videos, Photos, claiming to Sink Russian Ship which turns out to be Fake Russia taking over Ukraine in 24-48 hours etc., presented as the Gospel Truth.
> 
> Eventually, Russia will Win but pay or paying a dear price for it.
> 
> I am not a war monger. When I see Plight of Ukrainians, their cities etc., it makes me feel bad.
> 
> On other, Zelensky fighting US Proxy War with Russia + West lecturing other on Humanity, Morality etc., piss me off...
> 
> Thanks to Information WareFare Putin is Potrayed as Hitler. However, US & EU President/PM who carried out Genocide in Iraq, Libya, Syria etc., bestowed with Nobel Peace Price. That's why I support Russia who been demonized by Monsters & trying to expose thre Hypocrisy!
> 
> We live in a Cruel Word.


Agreed

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## Battlion25

jhungary said:


> NATO never, I say again, NEVER wanted Ukraine. Germany and France is not going to allow them.
> 
> Ukraine know that from beginning rejected twice in the last 15 years, there weren't even a membership action plan for Ukraine (there were one for Georgia)
> 
> As I said many time before, why NATO wanted Ukraine when they can do all Putin accused NATO wanted to do in existing NATO member nation. NATO is not a problem Russia make out to be. Hell Russia even sell S-400 to Turkey.
> 
> Putin cannot afford to have a Maidan Style Protest in Russia, and his popularity is going down to toilet, plus people can see Ukrainian started to prosper when Russian economy is tanking. Ukraine doubled their GDP since 2015 from 96 to 220 billions. Russian dropped nearly half from 2.3 trillions to 1.4 Trillions. That alarm Putin. Which is why he painted Ukraine as a big bad bear. Even as he said "they were the same country"



That is not why... NATO was gathering in East-Europe for years now and this got on his nerve as expected plus Ukraine was arming like a MOFO and if you were following the armament news on this forum you would have known..

Ukraine was involved in gazillions of ventures but all these projects production arrival was around 2025 to 2030s meaning Putin had a short window to deal with them before they go above the treeshold of military action


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## jhungary

Battlion25 said:


> I am neutral in this conflict..
> 
> But we can't bypass the fact that they hold 35% of the country after just 3 weeks of war that gotta count for something besides I don't see this tilt towards Ukraine if this drags on as I question for how long will the Ukrainian moral stay up or their will to fight for the long haul


35% of the country, but only 2 small cities. That is no kind of progress

You can't really call that progress. Say if we have a Peace Treaty tomorrow, what kind of "chip" do you think Russia have? Oh, I will give you back 35% of country side in exchange for.....

If you look at how US invaded Iraq, by now, day 24, we already took Baghdad (day 19), Basra (Day 16), Najaf (Day 16) and Nasiriyah (Day 13) 

You question how long would Ukrainian fight? How long can the west keep the supply of weapon? Dude, if by now you still do not know Ukrainian will fight the Russian with bare hand if they had to. Then you are seriously lagging behind the news here.

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## MH.Yang

thetutle said:


> I like the Chinese, very pragmatic and clever, they cant populate an area with their 1.3 billion people buy russia with their 140 million can.
> 
> They are happy to pay for resourced that used to be theirs and were taken and are now sold back to them.
> 
> If you even want to go into business with me I would be more than happy.
> 
> If you want, I can even let you pay me rent if I let you live in your own house.


Russians earn less than Chinese. If we let the Chinese exploit resources, we may have to pay more money and waste valuable human resources.


Stanovoy Range is not the traditional territory of the Han nationality, and Taiwan is the traditional territory of the Han nationality.
There are Russians and Mongols living in Stanovoy Range, they cannot shake the legitimate rule and stability of the Chinese govt.
But Han people live in Taiwan, in China's history, only the separatist forces of the Han nationality have the ability to undermine the stability of the country.


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## Clutch

Menu   Close  













Military personnel participate in a troop review in Grozny, the capital of the Chechen Republic, on Feb. 25. The presence of these fierce warriors in Ukraine is a psychological weapon that could backfire on Vladimir Putin if the war drags on. (AP Photo/Musa Sadulayev)

* Chechens fighting in Ukraine: Putin’s psychological weapon could backfire *​ 
Published: March 18, 2022 10.34am EDT

 Aurélie Campana, _Université Laval_ 


 




 

 

 

 

 

The Chechens have gained a reputation as fierce warriors in two wars against Russia, the first from 1994 to 1996 and the second from 1999 to 2014.
It was the most violent conflict between Europe and the former U.S.S.R. since the Second World War.
Chechen warriors are now fighting in Ukraine on both sides of the front line.
Those who fled to Ukraine after the wars that ravaged their country are supporting Ukraine’s armed forces, even though their involvement has gone almost unnoticed. However, the announcement — made with great fanfare on Feb. 25 — that Ramzan Kadyrov’s troops would be sent to Ukraine to fight alongside the Russian army did cause a stir among western media.

Ramzan Kadyrov, president of the Republic of Chechnya since 2007, even claims to have gone to Ukraine. He is a loyal supporter of Vladimir Putin who brought Chechnya back into the Russian Federation by using terror as a government weapon.
Kadyrov leads tens of thousands of men known as the Kadyrovtsy. No other federated entity in the Russian Federation has an armed force of this size. Although the Kadyrovtsy are members of the Russian National Guard, they remain under the sole command of Kadyrov, who also holds the title of major-general.
So how should their participation in the Russian invasion of Ukraine be interpreted?
As a professor of political science at Laval University, my research focuses on civil wars — particularly those in Chechnya and the Sahel conflict in Africa — and political violence.
The Russian-Chechen wars were fierce. In this 2000 file photo, Russian soldiers rest in Minutka Square in Grozny, the devastated capital of Chechnya. (AP Photo/Dmitry Belyakov, File) 
A psychological weapon​Many analysts believe that Russia’s military strategy did not work in the first two weeks of the war. Ukrainian resistance coupled with Russian supply difficulties, as well as poor co-ordination of the various army corps and problems of motivation among conscript and professional soldiers, has considerably slowed down the advance of the Russian troops. Faced with these military and logistical difficulties, Russia has now made psychological warfare a central element of its strategy.
The announcement of the entry of Kadyrov’s troops into the war and the propaganda surrounding it are part of Russia’s effort to destabilize the enemy.
The Kadyrovtsy are above all specialists in policing conquered cities. They are known for the cruelty and abuse they administered in Chechnya itself, in the Donbass in 2014 where they intervened, and in Syria where some of their soldiers are still deployed.
Russia’s announcement that Chechen troops were being brought in was meant to strike fear in the Ukrainian population. Similarly, the rumour that their special forces have been given the specific mission to kill Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is intended to sow uncertainty and create fear.
However, their role may go beyond that: Moscow sent one of these battalions to the Donbass in 2014 to bring the pro-Russian separatists to heel and purge them of their most undisciplined elements. The presence of Chechen troops shows that Moscow is preparing for urban guerrilla warfare in Ukraine. Kadyrov’s troops could be an asset for this, not just to overcome local Ukrainian resistance but also to discipline Russian troops and their affiliates.
A rebel who has fallen in line​Other more political dimensions directly and indirectly feed Russian propaganda and the psychological warfare it is waging.
Ramzan Kadyrov’s appearances on Chechen television and on social media are a constant reminder of his loyalty to Vladimir Putin. While these sometimes border on caricature, they do illustrate the support of a once rebellious federated subject who has now fallen into line after two unprecedentedly violent wars and the establishment of an authoritarian regime that is on Moscow’s payroll.
Chechnya’s President Ramzan Kadyrov speaks to military personnel in Grozny, the capital of the republic, on Feb. 25. He was in Ukraine and declared that the military of his republic is ready to carry out Vladimir Putin’s orders. (AP Photo/Musa Sadulayev) 
Of course, the over-personalization of politics and decision-making in the Federation silences any dissenting voices — if there are any left. The fact that Kadyrov embodies this image of cohesion is paradoxical, however, given that the relationship between Moscow and Chechnya is still characterized by a type of exceptionalism within the Federation.
Cracks that could widen​On another level, Kadyrov’s support is a reminder that the commitment of the subjects of the Federation to backing up Putin is not being hindered by ethnic and religious boundaries. These differences are being erased by the common objectives of opposing the despised West and fighting Ukrainian authorities who have been described as “Nazis.”
However, cracks are beginning to show in the façade of this ad hoc alliance, and these will become more difficult to hide if the war drags on. The Kremlin appears to have asked the leaders of the federated subjects to defend the official discourse that this war is a “special military operation” targeting only military objectives. It could be difficult for most of them to maintain this smokescreen as questions begin to arise among their own populations about the significant losses that the Russian army appears to be suffering.
But referring to the Russian army as a whole, without giving more details, tends to obscure its multi-ethnic character. Experts even estimate that non-ethnic Russians (i.e., Russian citizens, but of non-Russian origin) constitute a majority in the army. Coming from less socio-economically well-off federated entities, these members could account for a significant proportion of deaths. Such a scenario could not be countered by Kadyrov’s calls to intervene quickly in Ukraine. Such calls could turn out to be counterproductive for Putin.
The role of the Kadyrovtsy in the conflict in Ukraine is far from one-dimensional. Beyond the terror they inspire, they also embody total commitment the federated subjects have to Putin. However, this idyllic picture could crack if the war turns out to be longer and harder than anticipated.
The use of these troops is a risky gamble. Their poor integration into the chain of command could diminish the benefits associated with their engagement alongside regular units of the Russian army. With Kadyrov’s triumphalism seeming out of step with the reality of this war, he could become a political liability to Putin.


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## jhungary

Battlion25 said:


> That is not why... NATO was gathering in East-Europe for years now and this got on his nerve as expected plus Ukraine was arming like a MOFO and if you were following the armament news on this thread you would have known


Ukraine almost have no offensive capability, they are using upgraded T-84 tank, old soviet Mig, the entire Ukrainian Navy have 1 major battleship, the west gave them nothing but BS before this war. The best weapon they got is some 200 Javelin Missile Launcher. If you ask any analyst, they will tell you the way Ukraine can wage a war with Russia the way Putin said is next to zero.

In fact, judging from EU and NATO response, they think the war is going to go down, and they think Ukraine will capitulate within the first 3 days. That's why they don't even bother talking about sanctioning Russia until March 1.

There were no US troop in Baltic States, now there are roughly 20000 US and UK troop over there, basically Putin is the reason why his own volition come true, had he not invaded Ukraine, NATO wouldn't care much about the Baltic.


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## tower9

MH.Yang said:


> Russians earn less than Chinese. If we let the Chinese exploit resources, we may have to pay more money and waste valuable human resources.
> 
> 
> Stanovoy Range is not the traditional territory of the Han nationality, and Taiwan is the traditional territory of the Han nationality.
> There are Russians and Mongols living in waixing'an mountains, they cannot shake the legitimate rule and stability of the Chinese govt.
> But Han people live in Taiwan, in China's history, only the separatist forces of the Han nationality have the ability to undermine the stability of the country.


Stop explaining. The simple fact as to why China will support Russia is because if Russia falls, the West will come for China next. It is as simple as that. Back to back, China and Russia are a formidable bloc. So it is in the interest of both countries to cooperate in the face of unremitting hostility from the west.

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## MH.Yang

Paul2 said:


> Outer northeast is truly ours， illegally annexed through an illegal treaty signed under coercion by incompetent， illegitimate government in its death throes。
> 
> Its our arable lands， it's Han land， and we lived there for centuries。 Russians there just force us to pay to use our own land， We pay them for Chinese soy grown by Chinese farmers， on Chinese land because of connivance of the party （which itself is also an import from Russia。）
> 
> It's 2 to 3 times of our entire land suitable for crop cultivation，and our food security independence
> 
> https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/闯关东
> 
> 
> 
> Ask people in Beijing why they are obsessed with a 3000 times smaller mountain island without fresh water in the south sea


Have you ever thought about why the Chinese government can make Mongolia independent, let badashankh region join Afghanistan and let gorno region join Tajikistan. Only Taiwan independence is not allowed?
Because Taiwan is the traditional territory of the Han people, Taiwan is related to the "法統"&"道統" of the CCP government. This represents the legitimacy of CCP govt in Han culture. "法統"&"道統" are also the reason why successive Han govts are bound to pursue unified China.







__





法統 - 维基百科，自由的百科全书







zh.m.wikipedia.org









__





道統 - 维基百科，自由的百科全书







zh.m.wikipedia.org


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## Meengla

tower9 said:


> The war is occurring because the US is using Ukraine as a pawn and part of an anti Russian crusade. If Ukraine was not being used by nato and was a neutral country, there would be no war.



Truer words never been spoken on this thread. Had Ukraine been in the south or the east side of Russia without the land connection to the mightiest and the richest military alliance in human history, this war would have been over pretty quickly. Ukrainian bravery, while admirable, is based on very solid foundations. 



Battlion25 said:


> I am neutral in this conflict..
> 
> But we can't bypass the fact that they hold 35% of the country after just 3 weeks of war that gotta count for something besides I don't see this tilt towards Ukraine if this drags on as I question for how long will the Ukrainian moral stay up or their will to fight for the long haul



Pakistanis can comfortably afford to be neutral in this conflict. The only potential gains are via Pakistan's ally China's gain.

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## gambit

jhungary said:


> NATO never, I say again, NEVER wanted Ukraine. Germany and France is not going to allow them.


The Party ordered him to say so, just like how Xi ordered Poutine to wait until after the Olympics to invade Ukraine.

Am not saying Xi ordered Poutine as a joke. I do believe that Xi believes that China is now the superior partner no matter how Poutine feels or how many more nuclear warheads Russia has over China. For Xi, China have even more economic 'nukes' so there is no reason for Xi to believe otherwise that China is the superior. So even though Xi may have been caught surprised at the current status of the war, and he will go after the PLA leadership in due time, there should be no doubt that he colluded with Poutine about the war.


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## jhungary

gambit said:


> The Party ordered him to say so, just like how Xi ordered Poutine to wait until after the Olympics to invade Ukraine.
> 
> Am not saying* Xi ordered Poutine* as a joke. I do believe that Xi believes that China is now the superior partner no matter how Poutine feels or how many more nuclear warheads Russia has over China. For Xi, China have even more economic 'nukes' so there is no reason for Xi to believe otherwise that China is the superior. So even though Xi may have been caught surprised at the current status of the war, and he will go after the PLA leadership in due time, there should be no doubt that he colluded with Poutine about the war.


Lol I don't know Winnie the Pooh like Cheesy Potato Snack LOL

Anyway, anyone who try to pin it on NATO should really recheck their source, NATO is all but abandon by Trump, I remember reading one of the headline from BBC on March 3 saying Putin make NATO great again, and that's why Putin is banking on for his plan on Ukraine. Russia never afraid of NATO (Hell Russia themselves even wanted to join at one point) for the 20 years that they were surrounded by NATO member on all 3 sides and you are telling me adding Ukraine is now suddenly unbalancing the equation?

If I have to say, this is nothing more than a "Social Experiment" conduct by Xi or Putin or both to test EU resolve, the only thing Russia win from this experiment is sanction tho. I mean, Putin is stupid enough to test the water for the Chinese for their Taiwan adventure, he probably deserved to go down.


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## Meengla

jhungary said:


> NATO never, I say again, NEVER wanted Ukraine. Germany and France is not going to allow them.



Revisionist history. And that too when things have been so much out there in the last several weeks.
Russia wanted a guarantee that Ukraine wouldn't join NATO and to that this Goddamn senile warmonger President of America Biden came out in the media saying something like 'we don't take blackmails' or something similar to that.
*My, my. How right in front of us is history so written by those who are not even the victors yet!!*


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## Oldman1

Battlion25 said:


> I am neutral in this conflict..
> 
> But we can't bypass the fact that they hold 35% of the country after just 3 weeks of war that gotta count for something besides I don't see this tilt towards Ukraine if this drags on as I question for how long will the Ukrainian moral stay up or their will to fight for the long haul


The Russians don't really own 35% of the country, just cause you are passing by or bypassing the cities or towns because of fear of urban combat and so on doesn't mean you own everything including the terrain beyond the roads. The supply columns just keep getting destroyed left and right. Its pretty much Indian country out there.

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## jhungary

Meengla said:


> Revisionist history. And that too when things have been so much out there in the last several weeks.
> Russia wanted a guarantee that Ukraine wouldn't join NATO and to that this Goddamn senile warmonger President of America Biden came out in the media saying something like 'we don't take blackmails' or something similar to that.
> *My, my. How right in front of us is history so written by those who are not even the victors yet!!*


Exactly what more guarantee than NATO telling Ukraine "They Can't Join" *TWICE*" in the span of 15 years? I mean by saying "You can't join" twice in 15 years that NATO actually mean "Oh, I am just kidding, we want your membership"

I mean, Putin don't just want Ukraine not joining NATO, he wanted to roll NATO back to pre-1995 format (Losing Central Europe and Baltics) which mean if this is his plan, whether or not Ukraine joining NATO would not be any question here. Because that mean a confrontation with NATO to begin with.

And lol, Biden is actually saved by Putin, I mean, since when did we have bi-partisan policy made the last time? There are nothing better for uniting your nation than an aggressor you can pin on, and Putin is simply playing an useful Idiot for Biden here.


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504984816638439424

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Meengla

jhungary said:


> Exactly what more guarantee than NATO telling Ukraine "They Can't Join" *TWICE*" in the span of 15 years?
> 
> I mean, Putin don't just want Ukraine not joining NATO, he wanted to roll NATO back to pre-1995 format (Losing Central Europe and Baltics) which mean if this is his plan, whether or not Ukraine joining NATO would not be any question here. Because that mean a confrontation with NATO to begin with.
> 
> And lol, Biden is actually saved by Putin, I mean, since when did we have bi-partisan policy made the last time? There are nothing better for uniting your nation than an aggressor you can pin on, and Putin is simply playing an useful Idiot for Biden here.



I will agree that Biden is saved by Putin. The Covid policies failures and the inflation etc have taken a backseat in America now. And never forget... the first job of a politician is to gain power. The second is to hold on to power.
It is a universal principle.


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## jhungary

Meengla said:


> I will agree that Biden is saved by Putin. The Covid policies failures and the inflation etc have taken a backseat in America now. And never forget... the first job of a politician is to gain power. The second is to hold on to power.
> It is a universal principle.


Well, Biden don't really need to do any of that. I mean, if this war drag on, I can't even see how Trump can present as head of RNC on the ticket. 

And this war is going to drag on


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## oberschlesier

gambit said:


> I have no ties to Ukraine other than knowing that Ukraine used to be a Soviet state and that there are a lot of hot Ukrainian chicks, excuse the typical guy in me. But I am a refugee from communism so for now, I have sympathies for Ukrainian refugees in your Poland and admiration to the ordinary Poles who definitely went above and beyond the call of humaneness to help the Ukrainians.
> 
> But as much as I can say positive things to your Poland, the Cold Warrior in me must turn my head towards realpolitiks and that means I believe that as long as Poutine is in power and that China is Russia's ally, your Poland *WILL* be next. Whether Poland is immediately next or next after a previous victim is unknown, twice your Poland was conquered, Germany and the Soviet Union, so what are the odds under Russia? Americans have a saying "Two out of three aint' bad" to mean something is still worth it, but for Poland "Two out of three" is not odds I want to risk. Good luck to Poland, and I mean it.


Everybody here is completely aware, that we could be next and everybody is preparing for this. As long our back in the west is hold we will manage it. Generally we have "a bit of experience" of handling the thread from the east, otherwise we would not be a successful central european nation with a more of 1000 years of history. The problem was always, when the agression came from both sides. Generally from a historic point of view( Mr. P likes those comparisions ) the situation does not look so bad, What Russia is doing right now, is defending their western border drawn in 17th Centrury(!). They are historicaly figthing to hold the Pereiaslav Agreement ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pereiaslav_Agreement ). If Ukraine won`t loose, the EU consolidates and Germany emerges as a dominant friendly military European power, willing to defend the whole EU, you guys can really pivot to Asia then.


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## gambit

jhungary said:


> ...NATO is all but abandon by Trump,...


My distaste for The Orange One is well known here, but it is on personal issues, not policies. Many yrs ago, that after observing the effects of the collapse of the Soviet Union on CONEUR, I talked with some friends about either the US withdraw from NATO or even disbandment of NATO. It was a squadron beers and pizzas party for passing ORI. Disbandment was immediately dismissed, but surprisingly, there were a lot of agreement, from officers and enlisted, that *AT LEAST* a discussion should be allowed on US withdrawal from NATO, and that since economic might create military might, the Euros can sustain NATO on their own. So when Grump bullied NATO, I was all for it. Either step up for your own defense, or quit altogether and defend yourselves individually.

So did NATO rejected Ukraine because they feared that they may have to support Ukraine with less financial resources?

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## Amliunion

sur said:


> No not you. Sorry that I didn't make it clear..
> Those are two other members.
> 
> Once I realized you have shared all the images in that Swedish link. I deleted my post.


I saw that you've deleted your Post! Peace, Mate!


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## Oldman1

gambit said:


> My distaste for The Orange One is well known here, but it is on personal issues, not policies. Many yrs ago, that after observing the effects of the collapse of the Soviet Union on CONEUR, I talked with some friends about either the US withdraw from NATO or even disbandment of NATO. It was a squadron beers and pizzas party for passing ORI. Disbandment was immediately dismissed, but surprisingly, there were a lot of agreement, from officers and enlisted, that *AT LEAST* a discussion should be allowed on US withdrawal from NATO, and that since economic might create military might, the Euros can sustain NATO on their own. So when Grump bullied NATO, I was all for it. Either step up for your own defense, or quit altogether and defend yourselves individually.
> 
> So did NATO rejected Ukraine because they feared that they may have to support Ukraine with less financial resources?


EU even thought of having their own military organization from NATO. Don't know how that panned out.


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## gambit

Oldman1 said:


> EU even thought of having their own military organization from NATO. Don't know how that panned out.


There is a mutual defense clause in the EU charter, but members can opt out of that clause if anyone wanted. So now, what if the US withdraw from NATO or NATO disbanded? Would that clause be mandatory for membership? Same mission, different club.

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## thetutle

coffee_cup said:


> Russia's biggest cargo airline "Volga-Dnepr" stops using Boeing planes. 18 => 747 and 6 => 737 will not be used anymore.
> 
> Is this the result of embargo? Or is it due to political reasons?


Political reasons? lol no. 

Its a massive fine and a prison term in an American jail for anyone that: services the aircraft, provides it spare parts, refuels it. 

Yeah, you can use those planes in Russia and thats about it. Maybe Belarus.


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## jhungary

gambit said:


> My distaste for The Orange One is well known here, but it is on personal issues, not policies. Many yrs ago, that after observing the effects of the collapse of the Soviet Union on CONEUR, I talked with some friends about either the US withdraw from NATO or even disbandment of NATO. It was a squadron beers and pizzas party for passing ORI. Disbandment was immediately dismissed, but surprisingly, there were a lot of agreement, from officers and enlisted, that *AT LEAST* a discussion should be allowed on US withdrawal from NATO, and that since economic might create military might, the Euros can sustain NATO on their own. So when Grump bullied NATO, I was all for it. Either step up for your own defense, or quit altogether and defend yourselves individually.
> 
> So did NATO rejected Ukraine because they feared that they may have to support Ukraine with less financial resources?


NATO is a "has been" organisation that lost its value since the fall of Soviet Union, there are no denying that after we emerge victorious in cold war, there are no need for NATO anymore. Because we expect Russia to lay down and stay down.

Problem is, that does not stop a man with exceptionally high expectation of Soviet Union but extremely delusion about his own Military. Russia is no longer a peer-peer competitor after cold war. regardless what Mr Putin think how strong is Russia. Russia, following the Soviet Doctrine, means the strength of the nation is only as strong as it was perceived. Which is not translating into actual strength. Putin failed to know that, and NATO getting complacent, then accumulated with numerous small geopolitical victories (Chechen, Georgia, Syria and Ukraine) without getting any sort of punishment. Putin put himself in a deadly Calculus, which is thinking of Russia being stronger than it is to be as part of his own perception instead of what Russia actually is and this happen.

You need someone to spank Mr Putin and put him back in place where he belong, but at 4 critical moment before, nobody is doing that, if I get away with invading someone not once but 4 times, I too would think I am bigger than I am actually is. That is as much as NATO fault as Putin.

Before this? My thought of NATO is it had ran its course, we should not be subsidising European Defence. After this? I don't know.

As for why NATO reject Ukraine. I think the former Polish FM Radosław Sikorski frame it very good.






NATO don't want Ukraine to join because NATO don't want to fight for Ukraine.


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## oberschlesier

Amliunion said:


> Russia has made grave mistakes, fatalities on their side tells that & Ukrainian been trained by NATO since 2013. They are defending well, no doubt in that.
> 
> 'Snake Island, The Ghost of Kyiv, Sharing Video Games Footage, Old Videos, Photos, claiming to Sink Russian Ship which turns out to be Fake, Russia taking over Ukraine in 24-48 hours etc., presented as the Gospel Truth.
> 
> Eventually, Russia will Win but pay or paying a dear price for it.
> 
> I am not a war monger. When I see Plight of Ukrainians, their cities etc., it makes me feel bad.
> 
> On other, Zelensky fighting US Proxy War with Russia + West lecturing other on Humanity, Morality etc., piss me off...
> 
> Thanks to Information WareFare Putin is Potrayed as Hitler. However, US & EU President/PM who carried out Genocide in Iraq, Libya, Syria etc., bestowed with Nobel Peace Price. That's why I support Russia who been demonized by Monsters & trying to expose thre Hypocrisy!
> 
> We live in a Cruel Word.


Where is Russian Info warfare ? Putin with the long table ?
That the heck are they doing? Ukraine is//was the poorest country in Europe and now they better, than the Great Russia ? Many People in Europe still don`t belive this.


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## Oldman1

gambit said:


> There is a mutual defense clause in the EU charter, but members can opt out of that clause if anyone wanted. So now, what if the US withdraw from NATO or NATO disbanded? Would that clause be mandatory for membership? Same mission, different club.


I think the U.S. will stay in NATO but will contribute less, even withdraw military forces except keeping military equipment and supplies in prepositioned locations or storage unless needed if NATO countries were in danger. Many countries in NATO won't like it, with less personnel in Europe, but I think its a compromise of having to spend so much on it. Its good to have NATO in the long term if ever needed. I mean just look at Ukraine, not a NATO country and its being attacked, Finland and Sweden being threatened, Russia not willing to attack the Baltics or Poland to expand its influence going back to the Cold War days where the map was suppose to look like in Putin's eyes.


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## Battlion25

jhungary said:


> Ukraine almost have no offensive capability, they are using upgraded T-84 tank, old soviet Mig, the entire Ukrainian Navy have 1 major battleship, the west gave them nothing but BS before this war. The best weapon they got is some 200 Javelin Missile Launcher. If you ask any analyst, they will tell you the way Ukraine can wage a war with Russia the way Putin said is next to zero.
> 
> In fact, judging from EU and NATO response, they think the war is going to go down, and they think Ukraine will capitulate within the first 3 days. That's why they don't even bother talking about sanctioning Russia until March 1.
> 
> There were no US troop in Baltic States, now there are roughly 20000 US and UK troop over there, basically Putin is the reason why his own volition come true, had he not invaded Ukraine, NATO wouldn't care much about the Baltic.



I kinda disagree here because there were many small sequences of events that lead to this. 

Besides NATO had 53.000 troops along the russian border lines from Norway, Poland, Baltics and Ukraine itself. There was 10k in Ukraine itself that were pulled 3 days before the invasion. All in all that is significiant numbers during peace-times.

But that is not where it started many small sequences mounted on top of each other in quick successions. 

1. A Massive scale NATO military drill that simulated warfare along the entire eastern flank (This really spoked them)
2. Ukraine entering into co-production ventures with everybody that had a project coming up
3. Lukashenko dispatching fighter jets to intercept an airplane in order to catch one Belarussian activist this event escalated things quite sharp and the West came down aggressively against Lukashenko and his always been paranoid this lead to them sanctioning him and unrecognizing him as the leader of Belarus. This really spoked him and forced him to flee to Moscow 
4. In order to remove the sanctions and get back his recognition he started a trick by pressing them with refugees in order for them to recognize him and also pay him and it was an Erdogan trick he was trying pull off but this lead to him receiving direct military threats from Poland who threatened military response and this once again forced him to flee towards Moscow but this time he was offered to be part of the Russian federation to ease his panic and he saw all the militarisation alongside his borders plus the threats. 

5. All this sequences and Lukashenko cases mounted on Putin who came out and said if our redlines are crossed we will act during a visit to Crimea and he felt pressured 

6. On the other side Ukraine was arming itself but all their projects didn't conclude I mean these co-ventures but by 2025 until 2030 Ukraine would have been a force to be reckoned with but Putin didn't want things to even reach that far as he pulled the trigger before it reached that far

7. Ukraine was increasingly aggressive and so was NATO with alot of exercises on his borders and they even conducted a nuke warfare scenario military drill in eastern europe

8. He moved his troops close by and started negotiations hoping they will back off but it backfired these negotiations but he geninuely wanted them out of Eastern Europe entirely but they refused to exit Eastern Europe. They were not willing to concede a centimeter which is understandable. 

9. He couldn't back-off after these negotiations bombed on him but he had to react which is why he invaded Ukraine in order to unsettle their plans because he was being encircled and he was right they were encircling him because their whole EU defense doctrine is based on shouting Russia out of these areas hence the encirclement is necessary part of their defense protocol

10. Once Ukraine is over which I believe it will be around 9-12 months from now. He will likely wait 1 or 2 years before threatening Finland and he will carry out the incursion and it won't be as nearly difficult as this one and he will then again wait few months this time and threaten Sweden and then re-enter negotiations with them asking for sanctions to be lifted which they will likely do in order to safe Sweden because it would be stragetically a nightmare to lose Sweden for them but With Finland he will not offer grounds for negotiations except if they grand him bases inside Finland otherwise it would be a few weeks of incursions it is just a 5 million population and has half the population of Hong Kong..


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## MH.Yang

Meengla said:


> I will agree that Biden is saved by Putin. The Covid policies failures and the inflation etc have taken a backseat in America now. And never forget... the first job of a politician is to gain power. The second is to hold on to power.
> It is a universal principle.


Biden saved by Putin? No, trump is sure to win. Biden is sure to lose.

Yiwu, China has started manufacturing supplies for 2024. Trump's goods orders far exceed Biden's, which shows that trump has more chaebol support. Every time China Yiwu passes the goods order, it is expected that the result of the US election has never been missed, and so is this time.

Reactions: Like Like:
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1 | Wow Wow:
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## gambit

jhungary said:


> NATO is a "has been" organisation that lost its value since the fall of Soviet Union, there are no denying that after we emerge victorious in cold war, there are no need for NATO anymore. Because we expect Russia to lay down and stay down.
> 
> Before this? My thought of NATO is it had ran its course, we should not be subsidising European Defence. *After this? I don't know.*


Same here, that I do not know. But do you think the resurrection/rearmament of NATO rests on the level of destruction on Ukraine? This is cynicism talking.


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## Oldman1

Battlion25 said:


> 10. Once Ukraine is over which I believe it will be around 9-12 months from now. He will likely wait 1 or 2 years before threatening Finland and he will carry out the incursion and it won't be as nearly difficult as this one and he will then again wait few months this time and threaten Sweden and then re-enter negotiations with them asking for sanctions to be lifted which they will likely do in order to safe Sweden because it would be stragetically a nightmare to lose Sweden for them but With Finland he will not offer grounds for negotiations except if they grand him bases inside Finland otherwise it would be a few weeks of incursions it is just a 5 million population and has half the population of Hong Kong..


After Ukraine, Russia won't do such a thing, its truly nuts! Attacking Finland in hopes of deterring them from joining NATO??? And you think it won't be as hard as the one in Ukraine???Thats actually going to push them to NATO. I'm starting to think if that ever happened, NATO will get involved and kick the Russian forces out even if Finland isn't NATO. Not to mention I believe Finland has an alliance with Sweden as well. If you were one of Putin's closest adviser, you be shot dead thinking of that.


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## SuvarnaTeja

gambit said:


> The bias did not escaped my notice. Every PDF Chinese will support Russia uncritically and will exert great mental gymnastics to portray Russia in a positive light. But I am surprised and disappointed at India.




Why are you disappointed with India?


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## Battlion25

Oldman1 said:


> After Ukraine, Russia won't do such a thing, its truly nuts! Attacking Finland in hopes of deterring them from joining NATO??? And you think it won't be as hard as the one in Ukraine???Thats actually going to push them to NATO. I'm starting to think if that ever happened, NATO will get involved and kick the Russian forces out even if Finland isn't NATO. Not to mention I believe Finland has an alliance with Sweden as well. If you were one of Putin's closest adviser, you be shot dead thinking of that.



I am not his advisor. Safe me from that bullet.

But I am just an analyst and military strategist and I do believe that he will absolutely invade Finland and I am confident of this 100%.. You may ask why? Because his confident of a future NATO war hence he will not allow his largest land border to join NATO or even become western aligned. He can't afford that and knowing him well he won't blink.

Besides NATO won't intervene here either nor will Sweden. This will be a quick incursion this is a country with half the population of Hong Kong just 5-million and they are very LGBT esque society and this is not Finland of old.. Once they see the tanks rolling in with these boozed out Russians, Chechens, Belarussians, Tatars and what not it will be over before it even starts

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Oldman1

Battlion25 said:


> I am not his advisor. Safe me from that bullet.
> 
> But I am just an analyst and military strategist and I do believe that he will absolutely invade Finland and I am confident off this 100%..
> 
> Besides NATO won't intervene here either nor will Sweden. This will be a quick incursion this is a country with half the population of Hong Kong just 5-million and they are very LGBT esque society and this is not Finland of old.. Once they see the tanks rolling in with these boozed out Russians, Chechens, Belarussians, Tatars and what not it will be over before it even starts


Yeah sure whatever you say.


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## CrazyZ

I little early but are the key defensive weapons/strategies used by the Ukrainians in this war. Indian army will use downgraded versions of the systems Russia is using...... best for Pakistani to start taking notes.

Lots of modern ATGM's and rockets
Mines, IED's, ambush's (especially against resupply columns)
Drones
Lots of dug in forces
Surveillance and reconnaissance assistance from USA/NATO (would be China in Pakistan's case)
Foreign Recruits and mobilizing of civilians
Resilient AD systems using manpads and networked surveillance for SAMs (some of this networked aerial surveillance is coming NATO) 
Any other thoughts?


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## gambit

Oldman1 said:


> I think the U.S. will stay in NATO but will contribute less,...


The original NATO deal, bluntly speaking, was: We will finance your war (against the Soviets) provided that you are the first to fight.

But over time, especially when I went thru the Raygun yrs military buildup, the US became a frontline component, if not first responder in some situations, like when I was on the F-111 with our nuclear armed Victor Alert jets. And that status never changed until the Trump Administration questioned it.

Now, speculate that a Repugnicant returned to the presidency. Would the US change our mind given that so many have charged that the Trump Administration, and to the Repugnicant Party via guilt by association, contributed to the environment that enabled the Russia-Ukraine war? If yes, not likely that US contribution to NATO will decrease.


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## The SC

The audience interrupted Putin's speech with applause and chanted:

"Russia! Russia!"



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504816340779024388


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## SuvarnaTeja

dbc said:


> Please, a bulk of the Indian middle class income is linked to off shored support for US and EU businesses. Imagine a 150 million unemployed Indians. That threat from Mr Goswami is still born.
> 
> Late last year I was at a forum with CEO's,CTO's and CIO's from some of largest firms on the planet. All of them raised post COVID concerns about dependence on Indian IT - when many Indians were unable to work due to the COVID pandemic raging in India. Many firms are exploring options in Asia, South America and Eastern Europe.
> 
> It isn't an easy problem to solve, we are in this position today because we took economies of scale beyond its logical conclusion and ended up with single points of failure. We are diversifying it will take time, I suspect a decade.



You probably do not know but Mr- Goswami's Republic and WION are mouth pieces of PM Modi and very pro-West channels. He makes such wild statements just to trigger people and to corner India.

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## WotTen

jhungary said:


> NATO is a "has been" organisation that lost its value since the fall of Soviet Union,



Actually NATO has served the precise purpose for which the US kept it alive post-USSR, which was to torpedo any burgeoning Europe-Russia relationship. The Europeans and the Russians really had no serious quarrel with each other before this war. The EU has never been a threat to Russia, and Russia was happy to have a rich Europe as a customer for its resources.

This whole conflict was engineered by the US through NATO expansion which the US knew would push Putin's buttons. What's surprising is that a smart politician like Merkel allowed herself to be played by the US. Germany should have vetoed all eastward expansion of NATO post USSR.

So now we have Europe and Russia at each other's throats. Europe will have to switch from Russian gas to more expensive alternatives, reducing European competitiveness against American alternatives. Europeans will have to spend money on defence instead of their economy. They have all but given up any pretence of an independent foreign policy, quietly submitting to US leadership. China's relationship with Europe has now been complicated tremendously.

All in all, this war has gone swimmingly well for the US.

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## Oldman1

gambit said:


> The original NATO deal, bluntly speaking, was: We will finance your war (against the Soviets) provided that you are the first to fight.
> 
> But over time, especially when I went thru the Raygun yrs military buildup, the US became a frontline component, if not first responder in some situations, like when I was on the F-111 with our nuclear armed Victor Alert jets. And that status never changed until the Trump Administration questioned it.
> 
> Now, speculate that a Repugnicant returned to the presidency. Would the US change our mind given that so many have charged that the Trump Administration, and to the Repugnicant Party via guilt by association, contributed to the environment that enabled the Russia-Ukraine war? If yes, not likely that US contribution to NATO will decrease.


Before the invasion of Ukraine and all the tensions, yes the U.S. under Trump would have been possible, but as you said right now thats no happening soon with more troops and other types of involvement for many years to come.


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## The SC

Chechen forces in Mariupol..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504838768381022211

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## dbc

CrazyZ said:


> Any other thoughts?



Tea, lots of tea

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1


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## Battlion25

Oldman1 said:


> Yeah sure whatever you say.



I am one of the few people who predicted this war was happening months before it did and others were just laughing it off. I am telling you now.. Finland will either become Russian puppet by offering them Russian bases or get invaded cause I don't see any other alternative.

Putin is a Russian security first ''type of fanatic'' guy and his not the type of guy to do half-measures or leave pages unturned

Give it some years and you will see when he starts to ease up on Finland slowly


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## thetutle

Apollon said:


> Have you ever been to,russia? I had a competition in Irkutsk in 2019. The country is degenerated to the core. No infrastructure, poverty galore and very uneducated uncultivated village folks. I hated evry day there. They are completly incompatible with Europe.
> 
> I would feel pathetic if we would fall so deep to ever need their help.


As you now, I hope their fail much more than you. But Ive been to russia and its actually a really nice place. Well developed and quite advanced beyond my wildest imagination. It did not meet the Cold War anti USSR narrative. I put it down to pillaging Eastern Europe and other enslaved nations for 80 years.


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## jhungary

Battlion25 said:


> I kinda disagree here because there were many small sequences of events that lead to this.
> 
> Besides NATO had 53.000 troops along the russian border lines from Norway, Poland, Baltics and Ukraine itself. There was 10k in Ukraine itself that were pulled 3 days before the invasion. All in all that is significiant numbers during peace-times.
> 
> But that is not where it started many small sequences mounted on top of each other in quick successions.
> 
> 1. A Massive scale NATO military drill that simulated warfare along the entire eastern flank (This really spoked them)
> 2. Ukraine entering into co-production ventures with everybody that had a project coming up
> 3. Lukashenko dispatching fighter jets to intercept an airplane in order to catch one Belarussian activist this event escalated things quite sharp and the West came down aggressively against Lukashenko and his always been paranoid this lead to them sanctioning him and unrecognizing him as the leader of Belarus. This really spoked him and forced him to flee to Moscow
> 4. In order to remove the sanctions and get back his recognition he started a trick by pressing them with refugees in order for them to recognize him and also pay him and it was an Erdogan trick he was trying pull off but this lead to him receiving direct military threats from Poland who threatened military response and this once again forced him to flee towards Moscow but this time he was offered to be part of the Russian federation to ease his panic and he saw all the militarisation alongside his borders plus the threats.
> 
> 5. All this sequences and Lukashenko cases mounted on Putin who came out and said if our redlines are crossed we will act during a visit to Crimea and he felt pressured
> 
> 6. On the other side Ukraine was arming itself but all their projects didn't conclude I mean these co-ventures but by 2025 until 2030 Ukraine would have been a force to be reckoned with but Putin didn't want things to even reach that far as he pulled the trigger before it reached that far
> 
> 7. Ukraine was increasingly aggressive and so was NATO with alot of exercises on his borders and they even conducted a nuke warfare scenario military drill in eastern europe
> 
> 8. He moved his troops close by and started negotiations hoping they will back off but it backfired these negotiations but he geninuely wanted them out of Eastern Europe entirely but they refused to exit Eastern Europe. They were not willing to concede a centimeter which is understandable.
> 
> 9. He couldn't back-off after these negotiations bombed on him but he had to react which is why he invaded Ukraine in order to unsettle their plans because he was being encircled and he was right they were encircling him because their whole EU defense doctrine is based on shouting Russia out of these areas hence the encirclement is necessary part of their defense protocol
> 
> 10. Once Ukraine is over which I believe it will be around 9-12 months from now. He will likely wait 1 or 2 years before threatening Finland and he will carry out the incursion and it won't be as nearly difficult as this one and he will then again wait few months this time and threaten Sweden and then re-enter negotiations with them asking for sanctions to be lifted which they will likely do in order to safe Sweden because it would be stragetically a nightmare to lose Sweden for them but With Finland he will not offer grounds for negotiations except if they grand him bases inside Finland otherwise it would be a few weeks of incursions it is just a 5 million population and has half the population of Hong Kong..


First of all, no offence, but most of your point is either BS or conspiracy. You effectively put the frame on what Ukraine and what Zelenskyy does while discounting Russian and Belarus own cause and effect.

Particularly the point of Ukraine being a "Logical" threat for Russia between 2025-2030 timeframe is quite ridiculous. Almost all military analysis agree Ukraine would have to reach at least a trillion dollar level economy with heavy fortified industry base before it can present any sort of a threat toward Russia. The industry base is not there, and still have not relocated from East. There are no plan for domestically made Fighter Jet or Ship at least until 2035 and which is why the state of UAF and Ukrainian Navy is in such a depilated state.

The only way Ukraine can see an drastic increase in defence is either go with Russia or West camp, and seeing how Europe and US unwilling to supply any sort of meaningful offensive weapon, again, all weapon trade between US/EU and Ukraine were defensive, they are almost all Anit-Air and Anti-Armor weaponry, Ukraine is not going to be any creditable threat as Russia made out to be in 2030. They will now with full US and EU backing.

On the other hand, Russia seriously miscalculated and played their hand. As I pointed out before, US and UK jointed Intelligence Service had long intercepted Russian plan to invade Ukraine. To a point that BBC release a purposed map for Invasion which aligned to much of what we actually see happening. Which suggest this invasion is though out long before (at least 2 years +) because you don't just make plan on the go, there is a period of planning and wargaming to redefined the plan. If I have to guess, it's was either already there after 2014, or it was made after Trump got shown the door in 2020, if I have to lean, I would have pick the former because if it was the latter, Putin would probably wait until 2024 to invade, because he know if Trump win, that is a sure thing. And with him invading, Trump is not going to win another election as you can probably already see how their own Republican turn on him for supporting Putin. So if I have to guess, I would have said the plan was made after 2014 annexation of Crimea. Putin is just waiting on a good time to go.

As for whether or not Russia will win. That really depend on the next 3 days, because, they have lost a big chunk of their force already by putting their troop into position. And the tough thing has not even started, If you lost approximately 10% of your combat strength getting there and what you are looking forward is a Urban Street to Street Style combat. Your perspective is not going to be good.

Mind you, US intelligence report suggested most of the Russian unit are combat ineffective as of now (The definition is if a unit have more than 20% casualty, it's combat ineffective) , either too much wounded and too many supply trouble to continue, that is the majority of reason why there virtually no progress since Day 14, which is 10 days ago, that is why they resort to bombing civilian, because there are not enough ready troop to go in and engage. Which mean unless some renewal logistical and supply solution comes with a new batch of troop, I can see the frontline will hardly move for the next 6 months as Spring come in and muddy the ground, which amplified further logistic problem.

Not saying Russia cannot pull it off, but I am saying it will take a lot longer to untangle this mess and continue the advance. You need to know Russia has still to fight Kyiv, Odessa and Dnipro and being hindered at Kharkiv or even Mariupol. both of which have less population and smaller than the 3 city they have not touch, which mean it would be months, for Russian to clear all those city, and that is if they can clear them out. And then on top of that, you are only talking about Eastern Part of Ukraine. Russia have not even start moving troop West. And you will also need to conquer town like Lviv and Lutsk in order to prevent an insurgency.

By then Finland would be in NATO, and that is assume Russia still have enough strength to go over there. You need to know, you only need 2 meeting to join NATO, that's like 2 or 3 months top. And Finland already met the pre-requisite. And chances of Russia going to finish this war in 2 to 3 months time is probably next to zero, unless they opt out with a peace agreement.

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## Oldman1

CrazyZ said:


> I little early but are the key defensive weapons/strategies used by the Ukrainians in this war. Indian army will use downgraded versions of the systems Russia is using...... best for Pakistani to start taking notes.
> 
> Lots of modern ATGM's and rockets
> Mines, IED's, ambush's (especially against resupply columns)
> Drones
> Lots of dug in forces
> Surveillance and reconnaissance assistance from USA/NATO (would be China in Pakistan's case)
> Foreign Recruits and mobilizing of civilians
> Resilient AD systems using manpads and networked surveillance for SAMs (some of this networked aerial surveillance is coming NATO)
> Any other thoughts?


Artillery and MLRS along with loitering munitions as well as snipers.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## oberschlesier

Battlion25 said:


> I kinda disagree here because there were many small sequences of events that lead to this.
> 
> Besides NATO had 53.000 troops along the russian border lines from Norway, Poland, Baltics and Ukraine itself. There was 10k in Ukraine itself that were pulled 3 days before the invasion. All in all that is significiant numbers during peace-times.
> 
> But that is not where it started many small sequences mounted on top of each other in quick successions.
> 
> 1. A Massive scale NATO military drill that simulated warfare along the entire eastern flank (This really spoked them)
> 2. Ukraine entering into co-production ventures with everybody that had a project coming up
> 3. Lukashenko dispatching fighter jets to intercept an airplane in order to catch one Belarussian activist this event escalated things quite sharp and the West came down aggressively against Lukashenko and his always been paranoid this lead to them sanctioning him and unrecognizing him as the leader of Belarus. This really spoked him and forced him to flee to Moscow
> 4. In order to remove the sanctions and get back his recognition he started a trick by pressing them with refugees in order for them to recognize him and also pay him and it was an Erdogan trick he was trying pull off but this lead to him receiving direct military threats from Poland who threatened military response and this once again forced him to flee towards Moscow but this time he was offered to be part of the Russian federation to ease his panic and he saw all the militarisation alongside his borders plus the threats.
> 
> 5. All this sequences and Lukashenko cases mounted on Putin who came out and said if our redlines are crossed we will act during a visit to Crimea and he felt pressured
> 
> 6. On the other side Ukraine was arming itself but all their projects didn't conclude I mean these co-ventures but by 2025 until 2030 Ukraine would have been a force to be reckoned with but Putin didn't want things to even reach that far as he pulled the trigger before it reached that far
> 
> 7. Ukraine was increasingly aggressive and so was NATO with alot of exercises on his borders and they even conducted a nuke warfare scenario military drill in eastern europe
> 
> 8. He moved his troops close by and started negotiations hoping they will back off but it backfired these negotiations but he geninuely wanted them out of Eastern Europe entirely but they refused to exit Eastern Europe. They were not willing to concede a centimeter which is understandable.
> 
> 9. He couldn't back-off after these negotiations bombed on him but he had to react which is why he invaded Ukraine in order to unsettle their plans because he was being encircled and he was right they were encircling him because their whole EU defense doctrine is based on shouting Russia out of these areas hence the encirclement is necessary part of their defense protocol
> 
> 10. Once Ukraine is over which I believe it will be around 9-12 months from now. He will likely wait 1 or 2 years before threatening Finland and he will carry out the incursion and it won't be as nearly difficult as this one and he will then again wait few months this time and threaten Sweden and then re-enter negotiations with them asking for sanctions to be lifted which they will likely do in order to safe Sweden because it would be stragetically a nightmare to lose Sweden for them but With Finland he will not offer grounds for negotiations except if they grand him bases inside Finland otherwise it would be a few weeks of incursions it is just a 5 million population and has half the population of Hong Kong..


NATO should support Ukraine even more and build more forces on the eastern flank to threaten Russia even more. How Russia will react ?


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## Oldman1

Battlion25 said:


> I am one of the few people who predicted this war was happening months before it did and others were just laughing it off. I am telling you now.. Finland will either become Russian puppet by offering them Russian bases or get invaded cause I don't see any other alternative.
> 
> Putin is a Russian security first ''type of fanatic'' guy and his not the type of guy to do half-measures or leave pages unturned
> 
> Give it some years and you will see when he starts to ease up on Finland slowly


Yes, I also already know that the invasion could happen, I also pointed out that the Ukrainians will fight hard, and also that the Russians will have logistics problem on the day of the invasion which I argued on.


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## Battlion25

jhungary said:


> First of all, no offence, but most of your point is either BS or conspiracy. You effectively put the frame on what Ukraine and what Zelenskyy does while discounting Russian and Belarus own cause and effect.
> 
> Particularly the point of Ukraine being a "Logical" threat for Russia between 2025-2030 timeframe is quite ridiculous. Almost all military analysis agree Ukraine would have to reach at least a trillion dollar level economy with heavy fortified industry base before it can present any sort of a threat toward Russia. The industry base is not there, and still have not relocated from East. There are no plan for domestically made Fighter Jet or Ship at least until 2035 and which is why the state of UAF and Ukrainian Navy is in such a depilated state.
> 
> The only way Ukraine can see an drastic increase in defence is either go with Russia or West camp, and seeing how Europe and US unwilling to supply any sort of meaningful offensive weapon, again, all weapon trade between US/EU and Ukraine were defensive, they are almost all Anit-Air and Anti-Armor weaponry, Ukraine is not going to be any creditable threat as Russia made out to be in 2030. They will now with full US and EU backing.
> 
> On the other hand, Russia seriously miscalculated and played their hand. As I pointed out before, US and UK jointed Intelligence Service had long intercepted Russian plan to invade Ukraine. To a point that BBC release a purposed map for Invasion which aligned to much of what we actually see happening. Which suggest this invasion is though out long before (at least 2 years +) because you don't just make plan on the go, there is a period of planning and wargaming to redefined the plan. If I have to guess, it's was either already there after 2014, or it was made after Trump got shown the door in 2020, if I have to lean, I would have pick the former because if it was the latter, Putin would probably wait until 2024 to invade, because he know if Trump win, that is a sure thing. And with him invading, Trump is not going to win another election as you can probably already see how their own Republican turn on him for supporting Putin. So if I have to guess, I would have said the plan was made after 2014 annexation of Crimea. Putin is just waiting on a good time to go.
> 
> As for whether or not Russia will win. That really depend on the next 3 days, because, they have lost a big chunk of their force already by putting their troop into position. And the tough thing has not even started, If you lost approximately 10% of your combat strength getting there and what you are looking forward is a Urban Street to Street Style combat. Your perspective is not going to be good.
> 
> Mind you, US intelligence report suggested most of the Russian unit are combat ineffective as of now (The definition is if a unit have more than 20% casualty, it's combat ineffective) , either too much wounded and too many supply trouble to continue, that is the majority of reason why there virtually no progress since Day 14, which is 10 days ago, that is why they resort to bombing civilian, because there are not enough ready troop to go in and engage. Which mean unless some renewal logistical and supply solution comes with a new batch of troop, I can see the frontline will hardly move for the next 6 months as Spring come in and muddy the ground, which amplified further logistic problem.
> 
> Not saying Russia cannot pull it off, but I am saying it will take a lot longer to untangle this mess and continue the advance. You need to know Russia has still to fight Kyiv, Odessa and Dnipro and being hindered at Kharkiv or even Mariupol. both of which have less population and smaller than the 3 city they have not touch, which mean it would be months, for Russian to clear all those city, and that is if they can clear them out. And then on top of that, you are only talking about Eastern Part of Ukraine. Russia have no even move troop West. And you will also need to conquer town like Lviv and Lutsk in order to prevent an insurgency.
> 
> By then Finland would be in NATO by then, and that is assume Russia still have enough strength to go over there.



I stopped reading at the part where Ukraine has to be economically strong in order to become a threat? Are you even being serious bro..

Look at Brazil it has huge economy but not even nearly or half as armed as countries far smaller like Morocco, Poland or Algeria etc etc.. Economy is no indictor for armament.. It comes down to ambitions as some countries are more militarily ambitious then others


----------



## dbc

SuvarnaTeja said:


> You probably do not know but Mr- Goswami's Republic and WION are mouth pieces of PM Modi and very pro-West channels. He makes such wild statements just to trigger people and to corner India.



I don't know who he is... regardless, if India mortgages it's future in support of Putin's misadventures then it's going to have massive cost. No one begrudges India cheap oil at the expense of Russia. But being seen in the same photo frame as Putin post Ukraine is going be political suicide.


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## SuvarnaTeja

dbc said:


> I don't know who he is... regardless, if India mortgages it's future in support of Putin's misadventures then it's going to have massive cost. No one begrudges India cheap oil at the expense of Russia. But being seen in the same photo frame as Putin post Ukraine is going be political suicide.



That will never happen. Modi is a complete lackey of the West and he has complete control over India. He will just play to gallery and pay lip service. That's about it.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

Playing with the enemy sniper on the battlefield


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504992884101165058


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## oberschlesier

Battlion25 said:


> I kinda disagree here because there were many small sequences of events that lead to this.
> 
> 8. He moved his troops close by and started negotiations hoping they will back off but it backfired these negotiations but he geninuely wanted them out of Eastern Europe entirely but they refused to exit Eastern Europe. They were not willing to concede a centimeter which is understandable.


Why the countires of Central Eastern Europe would agree to this? The economical potential of NATO easteren flank countries is comparable to Russia. It seems now the military potentials is as similar as well.


----------



## CrazyZ

Oldman1 said:


> Artillery and MLRS along with loitering munitions as well as snipers.


Artillery, machine guns, and snipers are classic defensive tools...... how could I forget those.  Based on vids......Ukrainians are definitely using drones to spot for artillery. Any info on the types of artillery munitions the Ukrainians are using? Cargo shells/rockets? Guided shells/rockets?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504997904209096705


----------



## thetutle

Meengla said:


> More likely, if America loses India then America would be essentially out of the Eurasian continent. India is the last and only real bulwark for American desires in that most crucial region of the world. Related to that... just a few days ago a prominent Indian tv anchor Arnab Goswami boasted on his show saying something like 'we run your information technology' talking to Americans. It was a veiled threat.
> Keep outsourcing jobs and manufacturing... Yup, keep doing that on behalf of some hundred corporations and their paid for media and politicians.


America hopefully wont lose India, it plans to fight china tot he last Indian in the future.

Failing that America will open bases in Bangladesh and develop it. Its a democracy, the people the nice. It will make Bangladesh the unsinkable aircraft carrier in Asia - South east Asia.


----------



## jhungary

gambit said:


> Same here, that I do not know. But do you think the resurrection/rearmament of NATO rests on the level of destruction on Ukraine? This is cynicism talking.



Well, I talked to a friend of mine, Mischa, who is an Ukrainian, before the war (Yes, I have friends too ) 
I told him, you know NATO is going to hung you out to dry and leave you there so that they can show to the Finns and Swede that nothing good ever going to happen next to Russia if you are not NATO. He laugh it off, now he move back to Kyiv and defend the nation.

It's not hard to know or even realise that NATO aim for Ukraine is to use it as a cautionary tale aiming at Sweden and Finland. The organisation is falling and the only way to band it together, like any failing organisation is to look for new blood. And Sweden and Finland is not going to buy the Chinese Threat the US is selling. Which mean they would have to draw them in with Russia, and who else is there to better show them the Russian threat if not Ukraine?

The thing is, one thing led to another, what this war entail is also a sort of unification of NATO, which now put Ukraine being the center of the reason why NATO is united. Which mean the thought of losing Ukraine is probably unsustainable now than before the war started. 

So here is what I think, the rejuvenation of NATO depends on how long Ukraine can hold on. NATO wanted Ukraine to hold on as long as possible and as much as possible. But if that fail, they can always dangle the picture of destroyed Maidan Square and use them as a constant reminder to put NATO member on the heels. Not sure if that make any sense to you...

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

The abducted Ukrainian mayor has been released in prisoner exchange


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## oberschlesier

jhungary said:


> Well, I talked to a friend of mine, Mischa, who is an Ukrainian, before the war (Yes, I have friends too )
> I told him, you know NATO is going to hung you out to dry and leave you there so that they can show to the Finns and Swede that nothing good ever going to happen next to Russia if you are not NATO. He laugh it off, now he move back to Kyiv and defend the nation.
> 
> It's not hard to know or even realise that NATO aim for Ukraine is to use it as a cautionary tale aiming at Sweden and Finland. The organisation is falling and the only way to band it together, like any failing organisation is to look for new blood. And Sweden and Finland is not going to buy the Chinese Threat the US is selling. Which mean they would have to draw them in with Russia, and who else is there to better show them the Russian threat if not Ukraine?
> 
> The thing is, one thing led to another, what this war entail is also a sort of unification of NATO, which now put Ukraine being the center of the reason why NATO is united. Which mean the thought of losing Ukraine is probably unsustainable now than before the war started.
> 
> So here is what I think, the rejuvenation of NATO depends on how long Ukraine can hold on. NATO wanted Ukraine to hold on as long as possible and as much as possible. But if that fail, they can always dangle the picture of destroyed Maidan Square and use them as a constant reminder to put NATO member on the heels. Not sure if that make any sense to you...


Again NATO, NATO, STRATO whatever. The Maidan Square was about the EU. EUROMAIDAN. Not about the NATO, just about simple things, like having toilet in their house. 30% of Russian don`t have it. In PL 99% have it. Ukrainian want to have toilets in their house. Simple like this.


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## jhungary

WotTen said:


> Actually NATO has served the precise purpose for which the US kept it alive post-USSR, which was to torpedo any burgeoning Europe-Russia relationship. The Europeans and the Russians really had no serious quarrel with each other before this war. The EU has never been a threat to Russia, and Russia was happy to have a rich Europe as a customer for its resources.
> 
> This whole conflict was engineered by the US through NATO expansion which the US knew would push Putin's buttons. What's surprising is that a smart politician like Merkel allowed herself to be played by the US. Germany should have vetoed all eastward expansion of NATO post USSR.
> 
> So now we have Europe and Russia at each other's throats. Europe will have to switch from Russian gas to more expensive alternatives, reducing European competitiveness against American alternatives. Europeans will have to spend money on defence instead of their economy. They have all but given up any pretence of an independent foreign policy, quietly submitting to US leadership. China's relationship with Europe has now been complicated tremendously.
> 
> All in all, this war has gone swimmingly well for the US.


Not sure if you aware, nobody talk about Russia in the US.

For a normal American, the only time Russian is on the news in US TV channel is when they dope and that 15 years old girl (which is quite tragic) US don't really care about Russia as much as Russia don't really care about the US.

You can blame US all you want but the War in Ukraine is a European Business. That is an empty promise that was betrayed twice by Ukrainian themselves and one very jealous neighbour. There are constant bickering between Europe and Russia, especially more so after Russia control 40% of EU gas and oil. The threat was "Always" there vis-a-vis from Russia, and it's not American on that receiving end. it's always Smaller European country that was on the receiving end. So what you do when you were threaten by Russia? You join NATO.

Of course, you can spin it and say it is American Master plan that try to have Europe and Russia at each other throat. But fact remain, US has long been abandoned NATO and that is true even to this administration, and the sole reason why NATO is remerging is solely because Russia invaded Ukraine, otherwise I would dare to say NATO will probably be disbanded in the next 3 to 5 years.


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## Battlion25

Titanium100 said:


> My overview analysis of this is that the Americans are overwhelmed by this geostragetic occurances and partially due to their policies for the last 30 years because they have been cannibalizing their allies over irrelevant matters example even NATO itself is splitted and at it's weakest point where Germany and France are not on the same page and all that is due to the cannibalism that was taking place but Biden Admin took it to a whole new level and it is coming back to haunt them as an axis that is powerful has appeared..
> 
> Example just listen to this report and they are surprised by the overwhelming support Russia is getting in China and it seems like they have been living under a rock if anything China may join this war if it spreads to Europe on Russia side making this report naive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have been cannibalizing their own NATO allies and MENA allies because they got to comfortable in the passing years that they became to over-confident and now everything is crashing down.
> 
> They were spying on Germany for years and keeping their military weak on purpose, undermining the French and trying to contain Turkey and limit them including trying to create irrelevant quagmires for MENA allies.. Also annoying everyone with irrelevant NGO human right activists..
> 
> While completely being oblivious to the fact that their empire is coming to an end nor knowing where the chellenge is coming from.
> 
> Right now if WW3 breaks out Europe will fall to Russia-China because everyone else will assume neutrality in the old world because they don't trust the US even Israel will assume neutrality and they can't logistically fight toe to toe with Russia and China in the old world due to logistical reasons because they don't have land-corridor to the Eurasian continent. They will be forced to watch Europe fall entirely to Russian-Chinese forces if they want to commit to an all out offensive campaign.
> 
> All of West Europe will fall easier then Ukraine after an intense nuclear campaign because they won't attack NATO unless it is via Nuclear warfare..
> 
> The threat the US is facing is alot more credible then most assume. Biden Admin is definitely not coming back to power because it has cannibalized allies and the US will focus on re-gaining allies but unsure whether they will succeed as the other side will also be doing charm offense to prevent and on the other hand NATO itself could split as France may leave the alliance.
> 
> West Europe alone can't take on an axis of China-Russia



I agree.

The US became to comfortable because post cold-war there were no enemies on the horizone and it slowly started to cannibalize it's allies but not over-doing it but enough to become an annoyance to them..

The 20-trillion USD spend in mountains or in the sub-sharen fighting irrelevant non-state actor ghosts really did them in and drained them which gave rise to an axis or rival that could frankly speaking invade whole of west europe literally tomorrow and the US won't be able to stop it due to logistical reasons.

Is there any sane individual who thinks? If Russian-Chinese combined attack came out of nowhere in West Europe that they could stop it? That is approx 8000-10.000 Nuclear warheads and there chances is an absolute fat zero.. The US will remain tho besieged in North America where the Russian-Chinese will have issues crossing over conventionally but Western Europe will be taken effortlessly


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## jhungary

oberschlesier said:


> Again NATO, NATO, STRATO whatever. The Maidan Square was about the EU. EUROMAIDAN. Not about the NATO, just about simple things, like having toilet in their house. 30% of Russian don`t have it. In PL 99% have it. Ukrainian want to have toilets in their house. Simple like this.


If you read my post, you will know I never think Maidan and this invasion is because of NATO.

I am commenting on how this war united NATO. Nothing more.



Battlion25 said:


> I stopped reading at the part where Ukraine has to be economically strong in order to become a threat? Are you even being serious bro..
> 
> Look at Brazil it has huge economy but not even nearly or half as armed as countries far smaller like Morocco, Poland or Algeria etc etc.. Economy is no indictor for armament.. It comes down to ambitions as some countries are more militarily ambitious then others


You are talking about being a THREAT OF RUSSIA, not Algeria or Libya.....

So tell me, how a country with 250 aircraft, mostly ex-soviet MIG, with 1 capital ship in the ENTIRE NAVY become a "Threat" to* RUSSIA*?

Are you saying Ukraine is going to bomb Crimea with that tiny Frigate? Or Launch an all out air sortie on Russian Airport?

The fact remain, Ukrainian financial situation does not allow a large expansion of Military, that is why they are keeping it at 250,000 troop for the entire country. Ambition is one thing, but you need money to buy weapon, money Ukrainian did not have. So who are going to give them stuff for free before the war?

Dude, read the news please. Before the war, West Weapon shipment is at the expense of 500 millions dollar (310 from US and 200 from the UK) with a few Javelin and NLAW, most of which is after Russian troop build up anyway. After the war, as of today, Weapon Aide went over 3 billions dollars.

The "rearming" of Ukraine only happened AFTER Russian invasion, not before. So tell me, what kind of threat Ukraine has become with old MIGs and 1 Single ship and 1000 odd tanks? It's like asking Mexico to invade the US.

Dude, com'on.


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## oberschlesier

jhungary said:


> If you read my post, you will know I never think Maidan and this invasion is because of NATO.
> 
> I am commenting on how this war united NATO. Nothing more.


Sure, sorry if did not fully adressed your post, but it just annoys me, that the people only adress the hard power without taking into account the soft power, which is probably more important in the long run.


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## thetutle

oberschlesier said:


> LOL, Exactly to the point! How not to like the Americans. I`m always surprise, how many people don`t really get the dynamics in Europe for the last 30 years. Soviet Union USED TO BE Russia + Ukraine + Belorussia + many more. The Rus-Ukr war is something like a back to past soviet civil war. Old thinking vs. New Thinking. Old Soviets vs. Current Reality in Europe. It seems , that Mr. P is really getting old and wants to have his young glory Soviet years back.


For this Russians this makes perfect sense. Their original country, the Russian Empire, was destroyed by bolsheviks and communists who gave territorial autonomy to various ethnic groups, from Luthuanians to Kazakhs. To a Russian imperialist, this is terrible. 

When he USSR broke away the Russian imperialists looked around and realised that the Russian empire has just been stolen from the Russian people and land given away to the lesser humans, like ukranians, Kazakhs, Latvians. And now they want it back. 

Russian Imperial ambitions wil have to be crushed, economically and militarily. There is no other way.


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## Battlion25

jhungary said:


> The "rearming" of Ukraine only happened AFTER Russian invasion, not before. So tell me, what kind of threat Ukraine has become with old MIGs and 1 Single ship and 1000 odd tanks?



I was never saying Ukraine was armed but Ukraine started to buy and build at great speed and most of these projects or purchases never arrived. All these co-ventures happened post-2020.

Example they gave up their own nuclear weapons and that itself tells you this was a country that was never militarily ambitious and I know about their navy condition which is in bad state.

But it has nothing to do with money them neglecting the military but it is their own fault and due to lack of military ambitions and obviously very badly leaders came thru since the 90s. Example Look at Algeria it can go toe to toe with France in a conflict because it has armed itself handsomely thru out these years because they were involved in an arms race with Morocco.

Check India and Pakistan their arms race has them literally above France and Britain. Again not economy related but ambitions. Taiwan is 5 times better armed then Ukraine again due to military ambtions and need for defense etc etc. North Korea is poor country but better armed then Ukraine also by alot. 

When military and your existence become tied up you spend on it but if you have no need for survival nor facing threats then the military tends to get neglected


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## jhungary

Battlion25 said:


> I was never saying Ukraine was armed but Ukraine started to buy and build at great speed and most of these projects or purchases never arrived. All these co-ventures happened post-2020.
> 
> Example they gave up their own nuclear weapons and that itself tells you this was a country that was never militarily ambitious and I know about their navy condition which is in bad state.
> 
> But it has nothing to do with money them neglecting the military but it is their own fault and due to lack of military ambitions and obviously very badly leaders came thru since the 90s. Example Look at Algeria it can go toe to toe with France in a conflict because it has armed itself handsomely thru out these years because they were involved in an arms race with Morocco.
> 
> Check India and Pakistan their arms race has them literally above France and Britain. Again not economy related but ambitions. Taiwan is 5 times better armed then Ukraine again due to military ambtions and need for defense etc etc. North Korea is poor country but better armed then Ukraine also


If they are not armed, then how are they "threaten" Russia? With what? Harsh word?

Again, you are talking about being a "Threat" to Russia, not Algeria or Libya, you need to be more than "Armed" to be a threat to Russia, ambition alone is not going to cut it. Do you even understand that?

Well, but then seeing what are they doing to Russia, maybe you were right, they were indeed a "threat" to Russia lol. But then that's because of Russia own sheer incompetence. Not because Ukraine is armed to the teeth.


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## Battlion25

jhungary said:


> Well, but then seeing what are they doing to Russia, maybe you were right, they were indeed a "threat" to Russia lol. But then that's because of Russia own sheer incompetence. Not because Ukraine is armed to the teeth.



They were not armed to teeth but were about to get armed to the teeth.. 

As I said previously I am completely neutral in this conflict. I am geninuely hoping for Ukrainian success as they are the party attacked here


----------



## Clutch

The SC said:


> Playing with the enemy sniper on the battlefield
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504992884101165058



A really bad sniper with horrible aim....


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## Battlion25

The John Smith guy knows what his talking about

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505012943150325763


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## WotTen

jhungary said:


> Not sure if you aware, nobody talk about Russia in the US.



Ordinary people may not talk about it, but the Establishment knows that the US has only two major adversaries: China, economically, and Russia, militarily.

Neutralizing Russia also simplifies the equation in the South China Sea and Taiwan.


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## thetutle

WotTen said:


> This whole conflict was engineered by the US through NATO expansion which the US knew would push Putin's buttons. What's surprising is that a smart politician like Merkel allowed herself to be played by the US. Germany should have vetoed all eastward expansion of NATO post USSR.


Why would Germany want Russian troops on its border? Of course they wanted NATO to expand east. The further the Russians are the better.



Battlion25 said:


> I am one of the few people who predicted this war was happening months before it did and others were just laughing it off. I am telling you now.. Finland will either become Russian puppet by offering them Russian bases or get invaded cause I don't see any other alternative.
> 
> Putin is a Russian security first ''type of fanatic'' guy and his not the type of guy to do half-measures or leave pages unturned
> 
> Give it some years and you will see when he starts to ease up on Finland slowly


I agree, but I think a large chunk of Finland will not mind having russian bases. They are a strange bunch of people. 

And they would not actively fight an invasion. they just dont have the capacity to resist. They are more concerned about gay rights. 

If they really want to remain free they can join NATO now! but they wont, They down even have the courage to do that. 

At the same time they wil not be the next victims. Probably Moldova or Kazakstan. 

If Russians go into Kazakhstan and just massacre everyone, the west wont do a darn thing. They have the blessing of being muslim and loving asian. two things the west really does not care about. Its almost as bad as being muslim and African. 

So Moldova and Kazakstan next.


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## WotTen

thetutle said:


> Why would Germany want Russian troops on its border? Of course they wanted NATO to expand east. The further the Russians are the better.



What Russian troops were at Germany's border in 1991?

Which option do you think is better for Germany?
1. Have Poland as a buffer state between it and Russia with no commitment on Germany's part?
2. Make a commitment to defend Poland if there was a conflict with Russia or Belarus for whatever reason?

Why commit yourself to fight someone else's war?
Why let some other country's leader decide when your troops go to war?


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## beijingwalker

After this crisis, no one would like to touch Nato with a 10 foot pole, seeing its incompetence and cowardice.


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## Meengla

MH.Yang said:


> Biden saved by Putin? No, trump is sure to win. Biden is sure to lose.
> 
> Yiwu, China has started manufacturing supplies for 2024. Trump's goods orders far exceed Biden's, which shows that trump has more chaebol support. Every time China Yiwu passes the goods order, it is expected that the result of the US election has never been missed, and so is this time.


If you are serious then you can't be serious. I have been in America for a long time and the politics here seem to change on the dime. Yes, historically midterms are not good for the party in power but the trend is bucked occasionally--such as Bill Clinton's one of the midterms. People have fickle memories. And Trump... I believe if Trump were the POTUS we would not be in this situation despite BOTH warmongering parties' congressmen/senators wanting belligerence. Biden is on a level of arrogance and ignorance hard to find in any American president that I have seen at least in the last 3 decades I have been here. 




MH.Yang said:


> View attachment 825390





thetutle said:


> America hopefully wont lose India, it plans to fight china tot he last Indian in the future.
> 
> Failing that America will open bases in Bangladesh and develop it. Its a democracy, the people the nice. It will make Bangladesh the unsinkable aircraft carrier in Asia - South east Asia.



With respect, I don't think you know the Indian influence in America already and how that influence may, one day, be one of the topmost factors in American politics. Indians are working on that and its visible. My only wish is that if the Indian influence wins then it would not be of the BJP type. And as for Bangladesh.... a literally sinking nation to make 'the unsinkable aircraft carrier'?? Some irony! With all due respect, BD is a nation thriving because it is on the periphery of the Eurasian conflict. *The closer you are to the Eurasian conflict zones, the more rewards or punishments you get*. BD is at a sweet spot of neither here or there.... and good for them. Long ago, I had wished Pakistan was in some Pacific island region. The curse of Eurasia is a curse for eternity.


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## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> And you can say whatever you say about abstaining. But if these country are REALLY with Russia, they would go right up against this resolution, not abstaining. But I am pretty sure you know that too.


China accuses US and NATO as 'culprits' of Russia's war in Ukraine​China tagged the US and NATO as the "culprits" of the ongoing war in Ukraine, a day after US President Joe Biden branded Russia's President Vladimir Putin a "war criminal" for the first time. | via AFP

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

WotTen said:


> What Russian troops were at Germany's border in 1991?
> 
> Which option do you think is better for Germany?
> 1. Have Poland as a buffer state between it and Russia with no commitment on Germany's part?
> 2. Make a commitment to defend Poland if there was a conflict with Russia or Belarus for whatever reason?
> 
> Why commit yourself to fight someone else's war?
> Why let some other country's leader decide when your troops go to war?


As a German I would choose option number 2. 

It allows Poland to have a whole alliance supporting it before it falls to russia. Were it aloe, Germany risks having this war on its border. 

Now they are much better isolated form Russia. The price of having Russian troops in Poland now are much much higher. 

This was an easy decision for the germans.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504988538391216131

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Sad Sad:
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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> With respect, I don't think you know the Indian influence in America already and how that influence may, one day, be one of the topmost factors in American politics. Indians are working on that and its visible. My only wish is that if the Indian influence wins then it would not be of the BJP type. And as for Bangladesh.... a literally sinking nation to make 'the unsinkable aircraft carrier'?? Some irony! With all due respect, BD is a nation thriving because it is on the periphery of the Eurasian conflict. *The closer you are to the Eurasian conflict zones, the more rewards or punishments you get*. BD is at a sweet spot of neither here or there.... and good for them. Long ago, I had wished Pakistan was in some Pacific island region. The curse of Eurasia is a curse for eternity.


People we talking about a greta Chinese influence in America also. Where is it now? America just eliminates this influence once it does not fit into its plans. 

If India steps out of line, US will find an alternative. Personally I think Bangladesh is a great option. And yes its funny they kid of are sinking. but not really, their landmass in increasing every year in the delta area. New islands are popping up all the time. They are betting extra land without war. 

God is rewarding them for being very good people.


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## beijingwalker

thetutle said:


> People we talking about a greta Chinese influence in America also. Where is it now? America just eliminates this influence once it does not fit into its plans.


Eliminates what? US is never more dependent on China now than it was ever before.









Gobbling China’s exports, US sinks into dependency


China’s exports rose 28% in September from the year-earlier level, more than the analyst consensus had forecast. More important is that China’s exports to the United States have risen by 31% since …




asiatimes.com


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505033764178694147


Spoiler: Graphic 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505033767974580224

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## Amliunion

A British father who travelled to Ukraine to 'join the resistance' against Russia has fled back to the UK.
Ben Spann, 36, returned to the UK after becoming worried he had joined a 'suicide mission'. He spent five days in a safe house in western Ukraine with four former British soldiers before deciding it was an 'absolute nightmare' and fleeing back to the UK. 
- Sky News UK








Ukraine: Briton who travelled to warzone to join military fight against Russia leaves over 'suicide mission' fears


Ben Spann tells Sky News he did not tell his wife or teenage son that he was going to Ukraine to "join the resistance" despite the fact he has never served in the military and has no ties to the war-torn country.




www.google.com

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## Amliunion

The chief of police in Mariupol calls on Zelensky to provide Ukrainian military with real air defense systems and not “tiny little rockets which do not work against russian aircraft” referring to Stingers and other MANPADS provided by NATO. He says they are useless against the Russian Aerospace Forces whom he calls “monster” & begs him to not let them die there without real defences.


Source- ASB Military News Telegram

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## tower9

Amliunion said:


> A British father who travelled to Ukraine to 'join the resistance' against Russia has fled back to the UK.
> Ben Spann, 36, returned to the UK after becoming worried he had joined a 'suicide mission'. He spent five days in a safe house in western Ukraine with four former British soldiers before deciding it was an 'absolute nightmare' and fleeing back to the UK.
> - Sky News UK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine: Briton who travelled to warzone to join military fight against Russia leaves over 'suicide mission' fears
> 
> 
> Ben Spann tells Sky News he did not tell his wife or teenage son that he was going to Ukraine to "join the resistance" despite the fact he has never served in the military and has no ties to the war-torn country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 825409


So he realized it wasn’t a video game after all. He was going to be fighting against a great power with massive bombs that would obliterate him to pieces within seconds. No glorious heroics available.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

T-72B3 steel beast


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504940676353560577

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505044396953247750
Russian forces in the Kiev region are now combat ineffective


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## beijingwalker

F-22Raptor said:


> Russian forces in the Kiev region are now combat ineffective


Worse than US combat in Afghanistan?


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505045287240355849

It’s also assessed Russian forces in the Mykolaiv region are combat ineffective


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505044396953247750
> Russian forces in the Kiev region are now combat ineffective



Then no more combat. Iskander strikes on Kiev from Belarus will do.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504947154414153728


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## Viet

How is Putin war going on? No victory parade in Odessa or Kiev yet?


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## Oldman1

CrazyZ said:


> Artillery, machine guns, and snipers are classic defensive tools...... how could I forget those.  Based on vids......Ukrainians are definitely using drones to spot for artillery. Any info on the types of artillery munitions the Ukrainians are using? Cargo shells/rockets? Guided shells/rockets?


Just basic Russian made weapons that the Ukrainians have known for a very long time. Grad rockets, self propelled artillery, etc. They have some Russian made ballistic missiles. They are using drones with grenades but I believe they had it for years.



beijingwalker said:


> Worse than US combat in Afghanistan?


Worse than what the Russians had to deal with during the 1980s in Afghanistan. Probably 10 times worse if this keeps up.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> How is Putin war going on? No victory parade in Odessa or Kiev yet?



This war is a game for Russians. Just like Yemen war is game for Saudis and Emirates.


----------



## Viet

To Russia with love from UK





Ukrainian forces training with NLAW antitank missiles this month in Kyiv.Credit...Lynsey Addario for The New York Times


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## Oldman1

Viet said:


> How is Putin war going on? No victory parade in Odessa or Kiev yet?


Not even close. You can forget about Odessa being invaded. There is no supply line to support them if they make an amphibious assault on the city, it be like Dunkirk for the Russian Marines and get wiped out in this scene.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505044689065590789

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505044993211252736
Northeast and Eastern assessments

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## Oldman1

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Then no more combat. Iskander strikes on Kiev from Belarus will do.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504947154414153728


Still alot of combat left as long as the Russians are in Ukraine.


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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> This war is a game for Russians. Just like Yemen war is game for Saudis and Emirates.


No comparison
The Saudi are rich.
The Russian red army haven’t enough foods to eat.
They ask communist China to deliver army meals.



Oldman1 said:


> Not even close. You can forget about Odessa being invaded. There is no supply line to support them if they make an amphibious assault on the city, it be like Dunkirk for the Russian Marines and get wiped out in this scene.


Time is on Ukrainian side. Weapons and money from the NATO are flowing in. imperative for Ukrainian army to hold on, and wherever possible cut off resupply to Putin invasion army.

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## Apollon

Tai Hai Chen said:


> This war is a game for Russians. Just like Yemen war is game for Saudis and Emirates.



Doesnt look like a game when Putin has deranged outbursts live on TV and Lawrow foaming about West destroying russian economy bla bla bla

Effects of war can best be seen on leadership and Putin appears more and more unhinged.

Losing 5 generals is no game either


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## Viet

People attend a charity event at the Ukrainian Embassy in Hanoi, Vietnam, on March 5, 2022. 

Credit: Facebook/Embassy of Ukraine in Vietnam





Vietnamese take photos at a charity event at the Ukrainian Embassy in Hanoi, Vietnam, on March 5, 2022.

Credit: Facebook/Embassy of Ukraine in Vietnam


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## Oldman1

Apollon said:


> Doesnt look like a game when Putin has deranged outbursts live on TV and Lawrow foaming about West destroying russian economy bla bla bla
> 
> Effects of war can best be seen on leadership and Putin appears more and more unhinged.
> 
> Losing 5 generals is no game either


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Oldman1 said:


> Still alot of combat left as long as the Russians are in Ukraine.



No Russian needed in Ukraine. Simple Iskander strikes from Belarus will do. Ukraine does not dare to attack Belarus and Russia soil.


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## MajesticPug

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504928208378028036
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504928402691788805



Sounds like another creation from the Comedian and his deputies. He's been trying to hard sell this idea so NATO will start WWIII for him.


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## jamahir

Viet said:


> 2/3 of world economic powers support Zellinski even the oil sheik Singapore.
> Russia economy today is 25 pct lower than Italy. When this war ends Russia economy will be 75 lower than Italy.



So that 2/3 is a lynch mob. Next.



Viet said:


> What world order should be if you mix Russia imperialism with chinese chauvinism?



What Russian imperialism ? The only imperialist entity is NATO.



MajesticPug said:


> I don't need to give details of the tearful father-daughter good-bye or the dead climbing out of the body bag stories.



What is the body bag story ?


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504980903684157441
The director of the Defense Intelligence Agency described the sharing of information and intelligence between the United States and the Ukrainians as “revolutionary in terms of what we can do” at a Thursday congressional hearing.

Army Lt. Gen. Scott Berrier told the House Armed Services subcommittee on intelligence that he could go into greater detail on how this is being done in a closed session.

Army Gen. Paul Nakasone, who heads both Cyber Command and the National Security Agency, said that “in my 35 years” he has never seen a better sharing of accurate, timely and actionable intelligence than what has transpired with Ukraine.

The value of sharing information and intelligence with allies is that it “builds coalitions” and can “shine a light on disinformation” campaigns like the one Russia used to lay the groundwork for their invasion, Nakasone added. The question came down to “how do we share information that is relevant … and usable by the Ukrainians” in the conflict.









Intel Sharing Between U.S. and Ukraine 'Revolutionary' Says DIA Director - USNI News


The director of the Defense Intelligence Agency described the sharing of information and intelligence between the United States and the Ukrainians as “revolutionary in terms of what we can do” at a Thursday congressional hearing. Army Lt. Gen. Scott Berrier told the House Armed Services...




news.usni.org


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## Apollon

Tai Hai Chen said:


> No Russian needed in Ukraine. Simple Iskander strikes from Belarus will do. Ukraine does not dare to attack Belarus and Russia soil.


Vladi wanted Ukraine incorporated in his empire of dirt. He is in so much financial trouble, he cant care for his own land...by destroying Ukraine he adds ash to dirt.

Simple thimg...you break it, you own it.

It will be hard to explain to russians to pay rebuilding of ukraine


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## Viet

jamahir said:


> So that 2/3 is a lynch mob. Next.
> 
> 
> 
> What Russian imperialism ? The only imperialist entity is NATO.
> 
> 
> 
> What is the body bag story ?


NATO expansion is meant to give security assurances to East Europe, never a threat to Russia.

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## gambit

beijingwalker said:


> Worse than US combat in Afghanistan?


Yes, worse than US in Afghanistan. In Iraq and Afghanistan, it was US who were self restrained due to humanitarian concerns. Today in Ukraine, the Russian Army is stalled due to incompetence and restrained due to Ukrainian fighters.


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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> So that 2/3 is a lynch mob. Next.
> 
> 
> 
> What Russian imperialism ? The only imperialist entity is NATO.
> 
> 
> 
> What is the body bag story ?



Putin is an imperialist. He may only reihn over an empire of dirt but he wants expand it


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## gambit

beijingwalker said:


> After this crisis, no one would like to touch Nato with a 10 foot pole, seeing its incompetence and cowardice.


Did you tell the Finns and the Swedes that? Or did you kept it to yourself because you know they would laugh in your face?


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> Vladi wanted Ukraine incorporated in his empire of dirt. He is in so much financial trouble, he cant care for his own land...by destroying Ukraine he adds ash to dirt.
> 
> Simple thimg...you break it, you own it.
> 
> It will be hard to explain to russians to pay rebuilding of ukraine



Yemen war is still going on since 2015. You think Ukraine war will end anytime soon? Think again buddy.


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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504977272922521602


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## gambit

jhungary said:


> Not sure if that make any sense to you...


It does. But in a way, it is a bit sad that we do not learn, especially when we lived thru the time when smaller/weaker states were overtly pawns between the US and the Soviets. I often wondered if the explosion of wealth post Cold War contributed to the rapidity of memory loss of the tense geopolitics of those yrs.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504926356571930629


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## Apollon

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Yemen war is still going on since 2015. You think Ukraine war will end anytime soon? Think again buddy.



Russia already stalled. In this phase the goal is to kill as much russian soldiers as possible and destroy as much russian equipment as possible. It reaches a point where Russia simply runs in the red. 

Even more so since russian supermarkets now ration food.


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## jamahir

Viet said:


> NATO expansion is meant to give security assurances to East Europe, never a threat to Russia.



So NATO at some point placing nuclear missiles in Ukraine is supposed to be soothing to Russia ? IIRC, Russia had raised objections over NATO placing Patriot air defense missiles in Poland years ago because I think the Russian perception was that what would stop NATO from bringing in nuclear missiles into Poland as well.



Apollon said:


> Putin is an imperialist. He may only reihn over an empire of dirt but he wants expand it



And NATO reigning over an empire of homeless people, citizens' indebtedness because of obtaining healthcare and education, people doing multiple jobs to survive, private cars, pollution, dysfunctional social arrangements etc is all good ? If North Korea eliminates the anti-Communism dynasty rule I am sure many Westerners and Easter Europeans would appreciate the harmony and free facilities that North Korean can bring them.


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## MajesticPug

jamahir said:


> So that 2/3 is a lynch mob. Next.
> 
> 
> 
> What Russian imperialism ? The only imperialist entity is NATO.
> 
> 
> 
> What is the body bag story ?


You haven't seen the video clip? It showed a reporter reporting the deaths Russian soldiers brought to Ukraine. Behind him were several rows of black body bags. As he was reporting, a body bag started moving, then an arm reached out from a slid and opened the zipper. Assistants ran to the moving body bag, tried to block the camera and perhaps told the 'dead guy' get back in there because it's not done.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Unlike WW2, not a single bullet shoots into Russia because Ukrainians are cowards.


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## jamahir

MajesticPug said:


> You haven't seen the video clip? It showed a reporter reporting the deaths Russian soldiers brought to Ukraine. Behind him were several rows of black body bags. As he was reporting, a body bag started moving, then an arm reached out from a slid and opened the zipper. Assistants ran to the moving body bag, tried to block the camera and perhaps told the 'dead guy' get back in there because it's not done.



That reminds me of similar "emotional" stories uploaded on the internet by the White Helmets "humanitarian" rescuers in Syria.  The Ukranians must have learnt from the White Helmets.


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## UKBengali

thetutle said:


> America hopefully wont lose India, it plans to fight china tot he last Indian in the future.
> 
> Failing that America will open bases in Bangladesh and develop it. Its a democracy, the people the nice. It will make Bangladesh the unsinkable aircraft carrier in Asia - South east Asia.





No.

BD will never allow either USA or China to set up military bases on it's territory.

It is a neutral country that does not do alliances.

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## Titanium100

Poland is leading an initiative to put peacekeeping force inside Ukraine and other NATO members have supported the initiative. The reason Poland is supporting this is because it has been impacted by 4 million refugees now and this number will likely reach 10-million in the coming months.

But Poland can't put troops inside Ukraine as the Russians aren't on good terms with them and identify them as potential target hence if guraantor agreement is reached it will be US and Turkey with UK having an outside chance..

Turkey could dispatch 6000 forces peacekeepers into Ukraine in the coming months as guraantors in the deconfliction line meaning whatever Russia takes will be under their line and whatever Ukraine has left under Ukraine line where Turkish forces hold borders in the deconfliction zone


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505066625367613440


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505066468928536580


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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> 1.4 trillions not 1.4 millions
> 
> And if you have to ask this, I think you pretty much do not understand what GDP mean.....


If you think all GDP come from foreign trade you are in grave mistake.


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## retaxis

Everyone trying to be gangsta until Russia points 8000 nuclear megaton nukes at them

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## Viet

jamahir said:


> So NATO at some point placing nuclear missiles in Ukraine is supposed to be soothing to Russia ? IIRC, Russia had raised objections over NATO placing Patriot air defense missiles in Poland years ago because I think the Russian perception was that what would stop NATO from bringing in nuclear missiles into Poland as well.
> 
> 
> 
> And NATO reigning over an empire of homeless people, citizens' indebtedness because of obtaining healthcare and education, people doing multiple jobs to survive, private cars, pollution, dysfunctional social arrangements etc is all good ? If North Korea eliminates the anti-Communism dynasty rule I am sure many Westerners and Easter Europeans would appreciate the harmony and free facilities that North Korean can bring them.


Wrong
First. It’s a myth that NATO broke the promise.
Second, NATO in Europe has no long range ballistic missiles that can hit Moskow.

In contrast Russia has packed a massive arsenal of missiles that can hit all Europe cities.

You mean Europe is not allowed to have a missile defense?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Titanium100 said:


> Poland is leading an initiative to put peacekeeping force inside Ukraine and other NATO members have supported the initiative. The reason Poland is supporting this is because it has been impacted by 4 million refugees now and this number will likely reach 10-million in the coming months.
> 
> But Poland can't put troops inside Ukraine as the Russians aren't on good terms with them and identify them as potential target hence if guraantor agreement is reached it will be US and Turkey with UK having an outside chance..
> 
> Turkey could dispatch 6000 forces peacekeepers into Ukraine in the coming months as guraantors in the deconfliction line meaning whatever Russia takes will be under their line and whatever Ukraine has left under Ukraine line where Turkish forces hold borders in the deconfliction zone



I think Russia will be satisfied with taking Kharkiv and Mariupol. Second biggest city and second biggest port city.


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## WotTen

gambit said:


> Yes, worse than US in Afghanistan. In Iraq and Afghanistan, it was US who were self restrained due to humanitarian concerns. Today in Ukraine, the Russian Army is stalled due to incompetence and restrained due to Ukrainian fighters.



Russia is also showing immense restraint in Ukraine compared to Syria, Chechnya or Afghanistan (1980s) because 

1. They know the Western reaction will be far worse to mass casualties of white Christian civilians.
2. The Ukrainians are ethnic Slavs like Russians and Orthodox Christians, albeit slightly different from Russian Orthodox.
3. Putin may be deluded enough to still believe he can win Ukrainian hearts and minds to eventually welcome a pro-Russian regime.


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## jamahir

Viet said:


> Wrong
> First. It’s a myth that NATO broke the promise.



Someone had posted a press conference vid of Putin on this thread I think some days ago that had him explaining at length the promises that NATO had broken.



Viet said:


> Second, NATO has no long range ballistic missiles that can hit Moskow.



So no NATO version of the Russian Iskander ? And not even tactical nuclear missiles ?



Viet said:


> In contrast Russia has packed a massive arsenal of missiles that can hit all Europe cities.



Yes but that is besides that point.


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## Viet

jamahir said:


> Someone had posted a press conference vid of Putin on this thread I think some days ago that had him explaining at length the promises that NATO had broken.
> 
> 
> 
> So no NATO version of the Russian Iskander ? And not even tactical nuclear missiles ?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes but that is besides that point.


No ballistic missiles in Europe
There is no direct threat to Russia.

UK and France have nuclear missiles on submarines.
The US has gravitation thermonuclear bombs in Germany, not too far where I live.

Germans Tornado deepdive bombers are responsible to carry the bombs to drop on moskow. 2,000 km away.


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505072964458500098

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Self propelled howitzers shooting.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505064650332905472


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## Amliunion

Titanium100 said:


> Poland is leading an initiative to put peacekeeping force inside Ukraine and other NATO members have supported the initiative. The reason Poland is supporting this is because it has been impacted by 4 million refugees now and this number will likely reach 10-million in the coming months.
> 
> But Poland can't put troops inside Ukraine as the Russians aren't on good terms with them and identify them as potential target hence if guraantor agreement is reached it will be US and Turkey with UK having an outside chance..
> 
> Turkey could dispatch 6000 forces peacekeepers into Ukraine in the coming months as guraantors in the deconfliction line meaning whatever Russia takes will be under their line and whatever Ukraine has left under Ukraine line where Turkish forces hold borders in the deconfliction zone



Uncle Sam, Germany & France will veto it. NATO wants to fight Russia till the Last standing Ukrainian. Weapons will keep pouring into Ukraine.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504946465499713543


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Separatists AKA Russian bums who go to Ukraine for land and women T-64BV shooting in Mariupol.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505074168014032903


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505079162314403844


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## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> China accuses US and NATO as 'culprits' of Russia's war in Ukraine​China tagged the US and NATO as the "culprits" of the ongoing war in Ukraine, a day after US President Joe Biden branded Russia's President Vladimir Putin a "war criminal" for the first time. | via AFP


Oh yeah, China said it, then it must be true.

It's like when Russia said they try to "Denazify" a Jewish Regime. And then turn around and destroy Babi Yar holocaust Museum, sure, it's all about a Nazi Jew, right?

Dude, I even felt stupid typing it.......


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505079167725060099

Reactions: Like Like:
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## dbc




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## Paul2

MH.Yang said:


> Because Taiwan is the traditional territory of the Han people,



Taiwan wasn't even colonised until late 19th century...

There were many more Chinese even in Malaysia 1000km away than TW up until 20th century.


----------



## Apollon

retaxis said:


> Everyone trying to be gangsta until Russia points 8000 nuclear megaton nukes at them



Judging their military in Ukraine i doubt they have 8000 nukes and even the ones they might have are propably not functional anymore. Their entire army appears completly dysfunctional.

Also what will happen to Putins precious yacht and his children in switzerland?


----------



## jhungary

WotTen said:


> Ordinary people may not talk about it, but the Establishment knows that the US has only two major adversaries: China, economically, and Russia, militarily.
> 
> Neutralizing Russia also simplifies the equation in the South China Sea and Taiwan.


Let me tell you this

If US and UK Joint Intelligence can tell you what is the Russian point down to the every single step. What else do you think they know?

Also, as I said before, if this is a US or NATO trap (which both quite open about *NOT *helping Ukraine even before the war and will sanction the hack out of Russia). And it is quite obviously from a mile away you can see US/NATO is hanging Ukraine to Dry to try to push Finland and Sweden into their camp. And if Putin really still do become a useful Idiot on that and getting "Played" into US/NATO hand, then either Putin is even stupider than I thought or Putin is losing his old mind. 

Also, China would have to be willingly go and help Russia and therefore dragging their own economy down. No one can force China to help Russia but China.

Don't forget, let's say if this is a trap, you will still need Russia and China to willingly to participate in this trap in order for the US/NATO to bait Russia. It's not like US can order Russia into invading Ukraine. So, how do you account for that? Or what kind of "Master Plan" is that if all the key pieces needs your "enemy" to walk into them willingly? 

I don't know anything about Putin or Xi, but I can safely say they are not stupid. 

Russia is a has been "Power", everyone knows that but Putin.



Battlion25 said:


> They were not armed to teeth but were about to get armed to the teeth..
> 
> As I said previously I am completely neutral in this conflict. I am geninuely hoping for Ukrainian success as they are the party attacked here


How? If it's like you said, you don't need a big economy?

You do know Ukraine is a very poor country, right? Yes, their economy is comparable to Morocco but they are like 5 times bigger, have have twice to three time the population. Also, let's for argument sake, even if I believe Ukraine is about to get to the Moroccan Military Level,* Would that be a "Threat" to Russia*? 

Again, as I said before. you are not talking about a military at a level that would threaten Algeria or Libya, or even Syria, you are talking about a Military that can threaten RUSSIA. I don't think even Germany at this point can do that. Let alone Ukraine.


----------



## jamahir

Viet said:


> No ballistic missiles in Europe
> There is no direct threat to Russia.
> 
> UK and France have nuclear missiles on submarines.
> The US has gravitation thermonuclear bombs in Germany, not too far where I live.
> 
> Germans Tornado deepdive bombers are responsible to carry the bombs to drop on moskow. 2,000 km away.



1. Found this :


> Treaty control​Ten NATO member countries have advanced a confidence-building plan for NATO and Russia that could lead to treaties to reduce the tactical nuclear weapons in Europe.[26]
> 
> However, in the meantime, NATO is moving forwards with a plan to upgrade its tactical nuclear weapons with precision guidance that would make them equivalent to strategic weapons in effects against hardened targets, and to carry them on stealth aircraft that are much more survivable against current air defenses.


So tactical nuclear warheads are already present in Europe and if not carried in missiles, are delivered through other means whether through cannons or through aircraft and these can be stored in Poland or Ukraine which is what Russia's objection would be.

2. NATO could easily bring those Tornado aircraft you mention and store the thermonuclear gravity bombs in Ukraine. Again a concern for Russia.



dbc said:


>



Nice that they are working together but we must see this is the context of that picture from the initial days of the war when the soon-to-depart Soyuz rocket was scrubbed off three flags : NASA, ESA and JAXA.



Apollon said:


> Judging their military in Ukraine i doubt they have 8000 nukes and even the ones they might have are propably not functional anymore. Their entire army appears completly dysfunctional.
> 
> Also what will happen to Putins precious yacht and his children in switzerland?



Man, you are obsessed with Russian yachts.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505079162314403844



Drone seems to be the Zala type. These were used in Syria a lot.

self propelled howitzers


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504932006882582528

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## MH.Yang

Paul2 said:


> Taiwan wasn't even colonised until late 19th century...
> 
> There were many more Chinese even in Malaysia 1000km away than TW up until 20th century.


In 226 ad, the state of Wu had sent a large number of Han people to colonize Taiwan. The proportion of Han people in Taiwan is 98%.


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> 1. Found this :
> 
> So tactical nuclear warheads are already present in Europe and if not carried in missiles, are delivered through other means whether through cannons or through aircraft and these can be stored in Poland or Ukraine which is what Russia's objection would be.
> 
> 2. NATO could easily bring those Tornado aircraft you mention and store the thermonuclear gravity bombs in Ukraine. Again a concern for Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice that they are working together but we must see this is the context of that picture from the initial days of the war when the soon-to-depart Soyuz rocket was scrubbed off three flags : NASA, ESA and JAXA.
> 
> 
> 
> Man, you are obsessed with Russian yachts.



Because russian yachts show whats wrong with russia. A hyper poor country whose cleptocratic regime steals their peoples money to build mega yachts to carry them around europe.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

update of Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505077798939017217

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505086192424996866

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505087573542113280

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> If you think all GDP come from foreign trade you are in grave mistake.


Where did I say "All"?


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Because russian yachts show whats wrong with russia. A hyper poor country whose cleptocratic regime steals their peoples money to build mega yachts to carry them around europe.



Meanwhile in "hyper rich country" USA, we have Larry Ellison's 200 million dollar yacht :






Also in the same "hyper rich country" USA we have these tragedies :


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505090603960479744


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## jhungary

gambit said:


> It does. But in a way, it is a bit sad that we do not learn, especially when we lived thru the time when smaller/weaker states were overtly pawns between the US and the Soviets. I often wondered if the explosion of wealth post Cold War contributed to the rapidity of memory loss of the tense geopolitics of those yrs.


Well, it's the old game, but new player. 

Everybody wanted to rule the world, and as long as there are people who try to be King, there are always going to be war, and the small state would always going to have to take side, and fought for either side.

This is not going to go away until we only have 2 countries left in this world. Or WW3 hit and we all die


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Meanwhile in "hyper rich country" USA, we have Larry Ellison's 200 million dollar yacht :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also in the same "hyper rich country" USA we have these tragedies :



Russian yachts start at 400 million €. The oligarchs did not buy tiny yachts like Ellison.

It doesnt matter now anyways, we took all the yachts. Shows very well that Russia was not expecting Europe to act and one has to wonder what retarded advisers Putin has?

Thats a serious question, it appears Putin totally focused on USA and did not expect EU to act. 380 billion russian ventral bank assets in Europe. The oligarchs yachts were not removed either, even private jets were still here to get confiscated.

It appears Russia was totally unprepared to european counter actions.


----------



## Battlion25

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505086192424996866



They are probably only saying it in order to survive and want to appear as pro-russian.. Survival instinct kicking in..

I would prefer if both sides stayed away from using to much testimonies from captives or evacuees


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505095300347842562


Battlion25 said:


> They are probably only saying it in order to survive and want to appear as pro-russian.. Survival instinct kicking in



What you are saying cannot be ruled out. Neither, one can rule out what they are saying truth. Truth is the first victim on War. Let's wait and watch how it pans out.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505095088703164421

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## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> Oh yeah, China said it, then it must be true.
> 
> It's like when Russia said they try to "Denazify" a Jewish Regime. And then turn around and destroy Babi Yar holocaust Museum, sure, it's all about a Nazi Jew, right?
> 
> Dude, I even felt stupid typing it.......


But someone suggested that China was not with Russia only yesterday...


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Russian yachts start at 400 million €. The oligarchs did not buy tiny yachts like Ellison.
> 
> It doesnt matter now anyways, we took all the yachts. Shows very well that Russia was not expecting Europe to act and one has to wonder what retarded advisers Putin has?
> 
> Thats a serious question, it appears Putin totally focused on USA and did not expect EU to act. 380 billion russian ventral bank assets in Europe. The oligarchs yachts were not removed either, even private jets were still here to get confiscated.
> 
> It appears Russia was totally unprepared to european counter actions.



Ellison's yacht was an example - doesn't matter how many more million dollars were missing - that the Western socio-economic system, especially American, is not any better than the Russian one. There are human tragedies in the West. Please focus on that. Or do you want to simply brush away that homeless American man ?


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505096474430001152


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505098435791409157


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505101471288864773


----------



## Muhammed45



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## Battlion25

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505106307413594114

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505107316298944517


----------



## Apollon

Muhammed45 said:


> View attachment 825427


In other words we need to give russia a complete military defeat. If its that what putin wants, so be it.

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## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> But someone suggested that China was not with Russia only yesterday...


Well, I seems to remember you say "Not all Chinese were with Russia on Ukraine"

You want me to show you that quote?


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Ellison's yacht was an example - doesn't matter how many more million dollars were missing - that the Western socio-economic system, especially American, is not any better than the Russian one. There are human tragedies in the West. Please focus on that. Or do you want to simply brush away that homeless American man ?



Human tragedies are evrywhere. Doesnt mean we should stop to crush putler.


----------



## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> Well, I seems to remember you say "Not all Chinese were with Russia on Ukraine"
> 
> You want me to show you that quote?


China has 1.4 billion people, only fools believe they are on the same mind on everything, do all Americans support Ukraine?


----------



## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> China has 1.4 billion people, only fools believe they are on the same mind on everything, do all Americans support Ukraine?


Then what is your point? When you say "But someone suggested that China was not with Russia only yesterday..."

When you yourself also said "China has 1.4 billion people, only fools believe they are on the same mind on everything"

I mean, do you even know what the heck are you talking about?

By the way, Russia is still waiting on the Chinese MRE, when are China going to send them? LOL

Don't just talk like you do with the other thread, do something see how it goes.


----------



## Primus

Battlion25 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505106307413594114


Wait, isnt that, that chechen general or something on the right? Hes alive. 

They reported him as KIA (Ukriane and the UK) as soon as the chechens pushed in, making out the ukr wiped them out, but a few days later, he was seen alive with his men

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## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> Then what is your point? When you say "But someone suggested that China was not with Russia only yesterday..."
> 
> When you yourself also said "China has 1.4 billion people, only fools believe they are on the same mind on everything"
> 
> I mean, do you even know what the heck are you talking about?
> 
> By the way, Russia is still waiting on the Chinese MRE, when are China going to send them? LOL
> 
> Don't just talk like you do with the other thread, do something see how it goes.


China means the Chinese government, not an individual Chinese person, are you trying to throw a tantrum again after being caught lying?

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## jhungary

KA-52 shot down and crash land in Ukraine - Cockpit Footage Feb 24








beijingwalker said:


> China means the Chinese government, not an individual Chinese person, are you trying to throw a tantrum again after being caught lying?


Again, so when is Chinese "Government" going to send in the MRE Russia is asking for?

Also, you specially said "Someone" in your previous post. You aren't referring to the government when you wrote that. Or are you just becoming senile?

And finally, I seems to remember it's you who refused to do something, I gave you my number, you did nothing, so who's caught who lying? 6 years, Flag are staying, and you probably can't do anything, and I suggest you shut it, or I will shut it for you


----------



## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> Again, so when is Chinese "Government" going to send in the MRE Russia is asking for?
> 
> Also, I seems to remember it's you who refused to do something, I gave you my number, you did nothing, so who's caught who lying?


China govenrment is with Russia, as for how China may or may not aid Russia, it's a different matter, China yesterday unrequivocally call US and West the culprit of this whole war. Are you still suggesting that China is not with Russia till now?

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## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> China govenrment is with Russia, as for how China may or may not aid Russia, it's a different matter, China yesterday unrequivocally call US and West the culprit of this whole war. Are you still suggesting that China is not with Russia till now?


Tell me when China "responsed" to the Russian request or start sending money and military equipment up north.

Otherwise I am not interested in talking about something Chinese government "May" or "May Not" do.


----------



## beijingwalker

China accuses US and NATO as 'culprits' of Russia's war in Ukraine​China tagged the US and NATO as the "culprits" of the ongoing war in Ukraine, a day after US President Joe Biden branded Russia's President Vladimir Putin a "war criminal" for the first time. | via AFP








jhungary said:


> Tell me when China "responsed" to the Russian request or start sending money and military equipment up north.
> 
> Otherwise I am not interested in talking about something Chinese government "May" or "May Not" do.


We are dicussing if China is with Russia or not, not about wether or how China may or may not aid Russia, You suggested China was not with Russia and argued with several users here only yesterdy, why you keep trying to divert the point?

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## jhungary

China Distances Itself From Russia Calls for Halt to Violence​





Why A More Neutral China Is Tougher For Russia​




Support network helps Ukrainian in China deal with fears for her family back home​
*




Did someone tell these people they are helping "War Criminal" in China??

LOL*

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## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> China Distances Itself From Russia Calls for Halt to Violence​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why A More Neutral China Is Tougher For Russia​


Listen to what the Chinese spokesman said word by word, western media speculations are just BS, everyone who is not a fool can see which side China is on.

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## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> Listen to what the Chinese spokesman said word by word, western media speculations are just BS, everyone who is not a fool can see which side China is on.


Well, again, let me know when you Chinese Government send your money north into that pit. and put your money where your mouth is. See how it goes.

I have no interest in dick measure with your China on something you may or may not do

As I said, Talk is Cheap. Be your "all weather friends" and do something, otherwise, it's much like you people here, all you do is talk.


----------



## beijingwalker

China urges U.S. to face up to its own human rights violations​Source: Xinhua

2022-03-19 12:31:45
UNITED NATIONS, March 18 (Xinhua) -- A Chinese envoy on Friday refuted U.S. attacks on China's human rights record and urged it to face up to its own human rights violations.

Dai Bing, China's deputy permanent representative to the United Nations, accused U.S. Ambassador to the UN Linda Thomas-Greenfield of abusing a commemorative meeting of the General Assembly on the occasion of the International Day for the Elimination of Racial Discrimination.
As a gesture of respect for the host country, or the United States, its representative was invited to speak alongside representatives of regional groups in the meeting, Dai noted.
However, the United States, without regard for its own credibility, has gone so far as to use the meeting to launch political attacks, smearing China and many other countries with respect to their internal affairs, said Dai.
"Act like this makes a sad mockery of its status as the host country," he said.
The U.S. accusation of the so-called "ethnic genocide" and "human rights violations" in China's Xinjiang is an outright lie of the century and a vicious political scheme orchestrated and staged by none other than the United States, which China firmly opposes and sternly rejects, Dai said.
"The truth will surely give the United States and its malicious and blind followers a resounding slap in the face," he said, adding that the United States knows genocide the best.
Since the founding of the United States, the U.S. government had developed policies to slaughter and plunder American Indians in an intentional and systematic way, decimating their population to 250,000 at the beginning of the 20th century from 5 million in 1492, Dai noted, adding this is an original sin that the United States cannot shake off.
According to a Lancet report published in October 2021, Dai noted, about 30,800 people in the United States died from police violence from 1980 to 2018, and non-Hispanic Black Americans were estimated to be 3.5 times more likely to die from such violence than non-Hispanic white Americans during that period.
Anti-Asian hate crimes in the United States, instigated by U.S. politicians, have been surging ever since the outbreak of the COVID-19 pandemic, Dai said, noting that such crimes in New York City rose 361 percent in 2021 compared to 2020.
"May I ask the U.S. representative: When will you give the American Indians an explanation? When will you be able to give the ethnic minorities a real sense of fairness and justice? When will you ratify the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women? When will you offer genuine safety and protection to Asian women who are victims of hatred and violence?" Dai said.
He urged the United States to put away arrogance and prejudice, abandon double standards, and stop pointing an accusing finger at other countries as soon as possible.
"We all know very well what the human rights situation is like in the United States. I hope that the United States will come around to face up to its mistakes and correct them, rather than knowingly leaving them be," said Dai. ■





__





China urges U.S. to face up to its own human rights violations


China urges U.S. to face up to its own human rights violations-



english.news.cn

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## Apollon

beijingwalker said:


> China govenrment is with Russia, as for how China may or may not aid Russia, it's a different matter, China yesterday unrequivocally call US and West the culprit of this whole war. Are you still suggesting that China is not with Russia till now?



For Europe that doesnt matter what China says. Stay out of european business. The moment China supports Russia in this war, China becomes an enemy of Europe and will be treated as that.

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## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> Well, again, let me know when you Chinese Government send your money north into that pit. and put your money where your mouth is. See how it goes.
> 
> I have no interest in dick measure with your China on something you may or may not do
> 
> As I said, Talk is Cheap. Be your "all weather friends" and do something, otherwise, it's much like you people here, all you do is talk.


When did I argue about Chinese aids? I argued with you about your claim that China is not with Russia, seems you again try to brazen it out, it's very despicable act.


----------



## Wergeland 2.0

Battlion25 said:


> They are probably only saying it in order to survive and want to appear as pro-russian.. Survival instinct kicking in..
> 
> I would prefer if both sides stayed away from using to much testimonies from captives or evacuees



Eastern Ukraine has a major ethnic Russian population. Would not be surprised if they have pro-Russian sentiment.


----------



## beijingwalker

Apollon said:


> For Europe that doesnt matter what China says. Stay out of european business. The moment China supports Russia in this war, China becomes an enemy of Europe and will be treated as that.


Is your name Europe?

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## Amliunion

Apollon said:


> Human tragedies are evrywhere. Doesnt mean we should stop to crush putler.


Ask your Government to fight directly with Russia?  What is stopping it from sending boots on Ground?


----------



## Apollon

beijingwalker said:


> Listen to what the Chinese spokesman said word by word, western media speculations are just BS, everyone who is not a fool can see which side China is on.



Go on, does China want break with Europe? Yes or No? Simple question.


----------



## beijingwalker

Apollon said:


> Go on, does China want break with Europe? Yes or No? Simple question.


Up to Europe, China is in a postion of strength, Europe is the one who is in big trouble now.

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## Apollon

beijingwalker said:


> Is your name Europe?



Russia wages war against Europe. The way the EU counters that, complete economic russian annihilation plus massive support in weapons for Ukraine shows we are not willing to accept any interference. China knows whats at stake. Interfer and get crushed out of Europe as well.



Amliunion said:


> Ask your Government to fight directly with Russia?  What is stopping it from sending boots on Ground?



Why should we when sending weapons sends russian soldiers into a meat grinder?


----------



## beijingwalker

Apollon said:


> Russia wages war against Europe. The way the EU counters that, complete economic russian annihilation plus massive support in weapons for Ukraine shows we are not willing to accept any interference. China knows whats at stake. Interfer and get crushed out of Europe as well.


LOl, pretty a brave face you put for someone who is in big trouble now and is at great powers mercy. big talk won't help you out of this quagmire.


----------



## Apollon

beijingwalker said:


> Up to Europe, China is in a postion of strength, Europe is the one who is in big trouble now.



Be careful what you wish for. Putin didnt expect complete economic annihilation either. 

The way Xi acts proves that he has zero Intention to anger Europe. Just warm words for Putin. Nothing else. Keep it that way


----------



## Amliunion

Apollon said:


> Russia wages war against Europe. The way the EU counters that, complete economic russian annihilation plus massive support in weapons for Ukraine shows we are not willing to accept any interference. China knows whats at stake. Interfer and get crushed out of Europe as well.



Complete annihilation of Russian Economy My A*rse. You are still buying Russian GAS/OIL.

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## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> When did I argue about Chinese aids? I argued with you about your claim that China is not with Russia, seems you again try to brazen it out, it's very despicable act.


Well, there are what China talk






And there are what China DO






I mean, sure, talk and talk, but your China government can't even dare to vote WITH Russia in this. As I said, I don't remember Russia abstained from the resolution. But the Gutless China did. Which is not even a thing because this is a shame vote anyway as Russia is always going to veto. Yet China didn't even vote with Russia on a shame vote *LOL. *

Action said louder than talk. As I said, REALLY go and support Russia, and see how you go??


----------



## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> I mean, sure, talk and talk, but your China government can't even dare to vote WITH Russia in this.


It's a different matter wether China will aid Russia or not, I never argued about it, I argued with you about your claim that China was not with Russia, now it's so obvious that you are trying to divert the point again.

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## Amliunion

Apollon said:


> Why should we when sending weapons sends russian soldiers into a meat grinder?



Aww - fighting Russia using Ukranian Shoulders, aren't you? How many Ukranian Cities & Citzens sent to meat Grinder?

Ukranian government is allowing Foreigners to defend Ukranian Territory. Instead of been a Keyboard Warrior, why not fight Russian forces?


----------



## Apollon

beijingwalker said:


> LOl, pretty a brave face you put for someone who is in big trouble now and is at great powers mercy. big talk won't help you out of this quagmire.



There are only 3 great powers. USA, China and EU. Russia is a former power and in steep decline. So far China needs Europe to be neutral towards it to challenge USA. The moment China makes Europe an enemy marks the moment USA has won. Its that simple.

As i said, as long China keeps its current warm word support we wont have any trouble. The moment China helps an enemy of Europe means China is a war party and treated as such. Xi did not sound like he wants go that route.


----------



## beijingwalker

Apollon said:


> Be careful what you wish for. Putin didnt expect complete economic annihilation either.
> 
> The way Xi acts proves that he has zero Intention to anger Europe. Just warm words for Putin. Nothing else. Keep it that way


Russia has everything we need, Europe doesn't. Eruope depends on Russia for energy, go figure.

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## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> It's a different matter wether China will aid Russia or not, I never argued about it, I argued with you about your claim that China was not with Russia, now it's so obvious that you are trying to divert the point again.


I am not talking about aid, I am talking about the UNSC and UNGA resolution. So you are saying China abstained from voting while Russia veto is "China *WITH* Russia"? Wow, some kind of pal are you

Dude, keep up with the post please, or are you just getting old?


----------



## beijingwalker

Apollon said:


> There are only 3 great powers. USA, China and EU.


EU is not a united entity, countries can come and go, it's not a major player.

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## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> Russia has everything we need, Europe doesn't. Eruope depends on Russia for energy, go figure.


seems like you Chinese Bank is too chicken shit to even trade with Russia too.









China-Backed Development Banks Halt Russia Loans Amid Sanctions


The China-backed Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank halted all businesses with Russia and Belarus amid rising geopolitical tensions, a sign of Beijing’s cautious approach to financial support to Russia amid sanctions.




www.bloomberg.com





Again, talk is cheap.......LOL You talk about one thing, you do other. Typical Chinese Government.


----------



## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> I am not talking about aid, I am talking about the UNSC and UNGA resolution. So you are saying China abstained from voting while Russia veto is "China *WITH* Russia"? Wow, some kind of pal are you
> 
> Dude, keep up with the post please, or are you just getting old?


A vote just means China doesn't want to see the casualties, it doesn't mean China is not with Russia. You still suggest China is not with Russia? you are becoming helpless, want to start a poll here to find what sane people believe on this matter?


----------



## Apollon

In Germany Merkels legacy is destroyed right now. She is called worst chancellor Germany ever had. A putinist at heart who did only damage Germany during her time as chancellor. Its first time ever that a state leaders legacy gets completly dismantled just few weeks after she left office. 









Tagesanbruch: Wir müssen über Angela Merkel reden


Putins Krieg in der Ukraine ruft Zweifel an der positiven Bilanz von Angela M...




www.t-online.de

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## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> seems like you Chinese Bank is too chicken shit to even trade with Russia too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China-Backed Development Banks Halt Russia Loans Amid Sanctions
> 
> 
> The China-backed Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank halted all businesses with Russia and Belarus amid rising geopolitical tensions, a sign of Beijing’s cautious approach to financial support to Russia amid sanctions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bloomberg.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, talk is cheap.......LOL You talk about one thing, you do other. Typical Chinese Government.


Chinese banks have their own schedules and plans to deal with emergencies, it's not my argument, do you still believe China is not with Russia?


----------



## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> A vote just means China doesn't want to see the casualties, it doesn't mean China is not with Russia. You still suggest China is not with Russia? you are becoming helpless, want to start a poll here to find what sane people believe on this matter?


It mean a god damn vote. This is not about casualty this vote is not asking CHina to send troop to Russia or Ukraine

*FACT* - China did not VOTE WITH Russia, and that is a god damn fact you can never change. Not once, but Twice.

You can talk and talk and talk about how China support Russia, but you can't even cast a god damn vote with the Russia, that mean your "Support" is shit.



beijingwalker said:


> Chinese banks have their own schedules and plans to deal with emergencies, it's not my argument, do you still believe China is not with Russia?


Tell that to AIIB. 

Ask them why they pull the loan then. China own AIIB, right?

Al weather friendship my arse

As Russia’s isolation grows, China hints at limits of friendship​








As Russia’s isolation grows, China hints at limits of friendship


Chinese state-owned financial institutions have been quietly distancing themselves from Russia’s beleaguered economy.




www.aljazeera.com





lol


----------



## Apollon

beijingwalker said:


> Russia has everything we need, Europe doesn't. Eruope depends on Russia for energy, go figure.



Europe is one of the most powerful markets in the world. Russia is dirt poor. 

As i said, we hear Chinas words...but see that China acts as we demand. China doesnt help russia. China doesnt send aircraft parts and chinese banks dont dare to violate our sanctions. 

This is our part of the world and China is wise to not act against us.


----------



## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> It mean a god damn vote. This is not about casualty this vote is not asking CHina to send troop to Russia or Ukraine
> 
> *FACT* - China did not VOTE WITH Russia, and that is a god damn fact you can never change. Not once, but Twice.
> 
> You can talk and talk and talk about how China support Russia, but you can't even cast a god damn vote with the Russia, that mean your "Support" is shit.
> 
> 
> Tell that to AIIB.
> 
> Ask them why they pull the loan then. China own AIIB, right?


A vote only means China's no interference policy and China doesn't want to see causalties, you are becoming helpless, want to start a poll here to find what sane people believe on this matter?

China clearly pointed out the US and EU are the culprits of this war.


----------



## Apollon

beijingwalker said:


> EU is not a united entity, countries can come and go, it's not a major player.



We are a united entity as Russia just learns the hard way. We destroyed their economy within a day. Took 380 billion central bank assets and destroyed their aviation. 

As i said, sit down and know your place. Or Tibet will be flooded with MANPADS as well.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505117100708450307


----------



## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> A vote only means China's no interference policy and China doesn't want to see causalties, you are becoming helpless, want to start a poll here to find what sane people believe on this matter?
> 
> China clearly pointed out the US and EU are the culprits of this war.


yeah, all talk, but when Russia want China to vote with them that said no, right?

Seems like loud mouth and talk is not the trademark of PDF here, it seems like it's for the Chinese government as well.

I don't need to find sane people, I have enough article saying China is pull out of Russia. 

Here is another one.

How China is quietly distancing itself from Russia​








How China is quietly distancing itself from Russia


Fears that Chinese companies could face U.S. sanctions over ties with Russia had contributed to an epic sell-off in Chinese stocks in recent days.




www.koat.com


----------



## Apollon

beijingwalker said:


> A vote only means China's no interference policy and China doesn't want to see causalties, you are becoming helpless, want to start a poll here to find what sane people believe on this matter?
> 
> China clearly pointed out the US and EU are the culprits of this war.



All fine as long China doesnt interfer in european affairs


----------



## beijingwalker

Apollon said:


> As i said, sit down and know your place. Or Tibet will be flooded with MANPADS as well.


Tibet is waiting for you, lol, Europe is just a big mess, we can sell you gas with a good profit and you have to take it.



jhungary said:


> yeah, all talk, but when Russia want China to vote with them that said no, right?
> 
> Seems like loud mouth and talk is not the trademark of PDF here, it seems like it's for the Chinese government as well.
> 
> I don't need to find sane people, I have enough article saying China is pull out of Russia.
> 
> Here is another one.
> 
> How China is quietly distancing itself from Russia​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How China is quietly distancing itself from Russia
> 
> 
> Fears that Chinese companies could face U.S. sanctions over ties with Russia had contributed to an epic sell-off in Chinese stocks in recent days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.koat.com


We can start a poll here to see who is the crazy guy here, so you still believe China is not with Russia , right?



Apollon said:


> All fine as long China doesnt interfer in european affairs


Can we sell you gas? lol..

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## Apollon

beijingwalker said:


> Tibet is waiting for you, lol, Europe is just a big mess, we can sell you gas with a good profit and you have to take it.
> 
> 
> We can start a poll here to see who is crazy here, so you still believe China is not with Russia , right?



We are pleased that China knows its place and doesnt interfer in Ukraine.

Its obvious that China does not want to be enemy of Europe


----------



## FuturePAF

If this is true, a lot will be learned about Russian hypersonic cruise missile technology, and a lot of counter measures will be developed very soon.

Furthermore, If Russia is issuing all its best weapons to try to win this war, they have probably both exhausted their stockpiles of more conventional PGMs and maybe getting desperate. (I hope an Onyx missile technology is also captured in the event it is fired in Ukraine, that will complete all Indian supersonic and hypersonic cruise missile technology leakage to the outside world)


----------



## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> We can start a poll here to see who is the crazy guy here, so you still believe China is not with Russia , right?


Dude, you call this forum "sane", that's your first problem

As I said, I have about 20 article that said what China actually do is otherwise. 

Now, be a good boy and listen and do what the old man Biden said or else you are going to get your little tushy spank by sanction lol

This is another one

China says it wants to steer clear of U.S. sanctions over Russia’s invasion of Ukraine​








China says it wants to steer clear of U.S. sanctions over Russia's invasion of Ukraine


Since Russia's attack on Ukraine, China has refused to call it an invasion and said it plans to maintain normal trade with both countries.




www.cnbc.com







beijingwalker said:


> China Sells U.S. LNG to Europe at a Hefty Profit​Bloomberg News
> Stephen Stapczynski
> Mar 15, 2022
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Bloomberg) — China resold several U.S. liquefied natural gas shipments to Europe, a rare move by the world’s top buyer that highlights how sky-high prices are rerouting trade flows.
> 
> Unipec, the trading arm of China’s state-owned Sinopec, sold at least three LNG cargoes for delivery through June to ports in Europe via a tender that closed late last week, according to traders with knowledge of the matter. The shipments will load from Venture Global LNG Inc.’s Calcasieu Pass export facility in Louisiana, where Sinopec has a deal to purchase LNG, they said, requesting anonymity to discuss private details.
> 
> European natural gas rates surged to a record high last week on fears that the war in Ukraine will curb flows from top supplier Russia. The rally prompted Unipec’s traders to turn away from the lower-priced Chinese market, even as Beijing demand its importers secure more fuel amid concerns over wartime disruptions.
> 
> European gas usually trades at a discount to LNG in North Asia, home to the top importers. But Europe’s plan to ditch Russian gas means that it will need to significantly boost LNG imports, with the continent’s prices primed to stay higher than Asian rates as it seeks to attract every last drop of fuel from the spot market.
> 
> 
> Sakhalin Energy, which operates the Sakhalin II project in Russia’s Far East, plans to release a tender this week offering an LNG cargo for loading around April 25
> South Korea’s LNG imports plunged 33% in February from a year earlier to 3.5 million tons as prices soared
> Eni declares force majeure on Nigeria shipments of Brass crude after a blast on a pipeline in Bayelsa state, while Nigeria LNG is also affected
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China Sells U.S. LNG to Europe at a Hefty Profit
> 
> 
> China resold several U.S. liquefied natural gas shipments to Europe, a rare move by the world’s top buyer that highlights how sky-high prices are rerouting trade flows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bloomberg.com


Dude, keep posting the same article will not help your argument here.


----------



## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> Dude, you call this forum "sane", that's your first problem
> 
> As I said, I have about 20 article that said what China actually do is otherwise.
> 
> Now, be a good boy and listen and do what the old man Biden said or else you are going to get your little tushy spank by sanction lol
> 
> This is another one
> 
> China says it wants to steer clear of U.S. sanctions over Russia’s invasion of Ukraine​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China says it wants to steer clear of U.S. sanctions over Russia's invasion of Ukraine
> 
> 
> Since Russia's attack on Ukraine, China has refused to call it an invasion and said it plans to maintain normal trade with both countries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com


You are just in denial, everyone knows that China is with Russia, even you know it . US sanctions? We went through a lot, do you want to know the result who got hurt more, I happen to get some data here.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505121990952296452

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> You are just in denial, everyone knows that China is with Russia, even you know it . US sanctions? We went through a lot, do you want to know the result who got hurt more, I happen to get some data here.


Well, if I am in denial, so did the BOC, and seems like your bank are also scare of little US Sanction.

Chinese Banks Set Curbs on Russia Amid US Sanctions









Chinese Banks Set Curbs on Russia Amid US Sanctions


Bank of China's Singapore branch has stopped financing transactions involving Russian oil and Russian companies. That’s according to ...




www.ntd.com





I know Huawei go bang after US put sanction on them. And other Chinese telecom still uses US chip like their little Biatch.


----------



## MMM-E

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504872823906570240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505105270439088128


----------



## Apollon

beijingwalker said:


> You are just in denial, everyone knows that China is with Russia, even you know it . US sanctions? We went through a lot, do you want to know the result who got hurt more, I happen to get some data here.



Is China with Europe or against us?


----------



## Ich

Apollon said:


> This is our part of the world and China is wise to not act against us.



Apart from "why should China act against europe?"....

So you speak for all europeans? Interesting. Normally i would say you are a small kid, aged around 8-9, parrot what is told him. But on the second view its going to look more like you have an mental illness. *So listen! *You do not have the right to speak for me! There is no "us" in your statement! Its just a "you", and only you.

Europe extends from the Atlantic to the Ural. Includes Russia.

The EU *is no*t Europe! The EU is just a bunch of liars and cheaters with a penchant for dictatorship sitting in a small building in Brussels.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> You should employ your time better in speaking for overthrowing the genocides and war criminals in the Western governments and overthrowing the Capitalists in the West who enable those human tragedies.



Hard to do when we would have to live under the kremlins botox dwarfs opression. As i said, lets first kill of pancake face. Then other problems


----------



## beijingwalker

Apollon said:


> Is China with Europe or against us?


If you wants Nato, we are against you, isn't it very clear?


----------



## Apollon

Ich said:


> Apart from "why should China act against europe?"....
> 
> So you speak for all europeans? Interesting. Normally i would say you are a small kid, aged around 8-9, parrot what is told him. But on the second view its going to look more like you have an mental illness. *So listen! *You do not have the right to speak for me! There is no "us" in your statement! Its just a "you", and only you.
> 
> Europe extends from the Atlantic to the Ural. Includes Russia.
> 
> The EU *is no*t Europe! The EU is just a bunch of liars and cheaters with a penchant for dictatorship sitting in a small building in Brussels.



Lass mich raten...Ossi aus Sucksen ohne Wahlrecht in Deutschland.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505026512210345988

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

beijingwalker said:


> If you wants Nato, we are against you, isn't it very clear?



Alternative to NATO is a nuclear armed Europe as security architecture. You prefer that over NATO?


----------



## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> Here is another one for you @beijingwalker
> 
> Huawei was world number 3 mobile equipment provider.
> 
> Let's see how Hauwei do in 2020-2021 post US Sanction
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Global Smartphone Market Share: By Quarter: Counterpoint Research
> 
> 
> This data shows the global smartphone market growth by quarter (from 2018-2022) by top OEMs. The data is extracted from our Market Monitor service.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.counterpointresearch.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OOPS. Where did Huawei go? It's not even top 5 and it's now put together with "Other" category
> 
> LOL Not scare of US sanction, maybe in your dream.


Huawei is just one company, why US cares so much about one company and ignore the big picture?

*Gobbling China’s exports, US sinks into dependency








Gobbling China’s exports, US sinks into dependency


China’s exports rose 28% in September from the year-earlier level, more than the analyst consensus had forecast. More important is that China’s exports to the United States have risen by 31% since …




asiatimes.com




*


Apollon said:


> Alternative to NATO is a nuclear armed Europe as security architecture. You prefer that over NATO?


We'll see , disband Nato first and let's find out.


----------



## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> If you wants Nato, we are against you, isn't it very clear?


Or what? You are going to "Isolate" the west? LOL 

This "You can't fire me, I quit" argument never gets old.


----------



## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> Or what? You are going to "Isolate" the west? LOL
> 
> This "You can't fire me, I quit" argument never gets old.


US is against China and Nato is against China, and you expect China to be with US and Nato? are you sure about your sanity?

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## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> Huawei is just one company, why US cares so much about one company and ignore the big picture?
> 
> *Gobbling China’s exports, US sinks into dependency
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gobbling China’s exports, US sinks into dependency
> 
> 
> China’s exports rose 28% in September from the year-earlier level, more than the analyst consensus had forecast. More important is that China’s exports to the United States have risen by 31% since …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asiatimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> We'll see , disband Nato first and let's find out.


So do tell me where Evergrande goes after Australia stop supplying China coal?

Actually, I can name you about 8 (already named 2) Chinese international business that got busted by the "little" sanction (your word, not mine) Can you name one US or Australian international enterprise that go busted because of Chinese sanction or trade war?

As I said, I have already named 2. Can you even name one?



beijingwalker said:


> US is against China and Nato is against China, and you expect China to be with US and Nato? are you sure about your sanity?


Read my post again, probably get your glasses with you.

Did I say I expect China is with US or NATO? I ask what are you going to do with it?

Dude, com'on, this is plain English.


----------



## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> So do tell me where Evergrande goes after Australia stop supplying China coal?


China's exports and surplus hit record high in recent two years, this is the big picture, as for small rises and falls here and there, it's quite natural , after US trade war, China is being strengthened instead of being weakened, actually it's even a happy surprise to we Chinese. we finally realized that US had been bluffing all those years.



jhungary said:


> Read my post again, probably get your glasses with you.
> 
> Did I say I expect China is with US or NATO? I ask what are you going to do with it?
> 
> Dude, com'on, this is plain English.


So you finally admit that China is with Russia, good, as for what we do, it depends on they do.

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## jhungary

FuturePAF said:


> If this is true, a lot will be learned about Russian hypersonic cruise missile technology, and a lot of counter measures will be developed very soon.
> 
> Furthermore, If Russia is issuing all its best weapons to try to win this war, they have probably both exhausted their stockpiles of more conventional PGMs and maybe getting desperate. (I hope an Onyx missile technology is also captured in the event it is fired in Ukraine, that will complete all Indian supersonic and hypersonic cruise missile technology leakage to the outside world)


It doesn't look like a hypersonic missile, I would expect it to travel faster in terminal guidance phase.

I could be wrong tho



beijingwalker said:


> China's exports and surplus hit record high in recent two years, this is the big picture, as for small rises and falls here and there, it's quite natural , after US trade war, China is being strengthened instead of being weakened, actually it's even a happy surprise to we Chinese. we finally realized that US had been bluffing all those years.
> 
> 
> So you finally admit that China is with Russia, good, as for what we do, it depends on they do.


What's that have to do with China is too chicken shit for US sanction?

Again, name me one western business that go busted after US-China or Australia-China Trade war.

I have another one, ZTE, ask the CEO of ZTE whether or not US is bluffing? LOL

And since when did I admit China is with Russia, I asked what can you China do when country want NATO. I didn't even mention Russia in my post. *You really need a pair of prescription glasses now didn't you?*


----------



## kingQamaR

So did the appalling performance of the Russian armed forces. They have failed to operate as a combined military force, with poor command and control, a breakdown in encrypted communications (with the result that Nato intercepts their exchanges and passes them on to the Ukrainians) and useless leadership. Generals almost never die on the battlefield in modern warfare but four Russian generals have managed to get themselves killed by venturing too far forward in a desperate bid to sort out the chaos at the frontline. Putin, in fits of fury, has sacked eight more.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
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## Ali_Baba

dbc said:


> Well the healthy were busy looking for hospital beds and oxygen while many were sick or dying. Again, the disruptions wasn't mainly attributed to the above but the surging COVID related investment in IT caused a huge shortage in skilled IT workers.
> 
> Most large firms on average significantly increased their investment in IT, automation and remote operations post COVID.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Subscribe to read | Financial Times
> 
> 
> News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ft.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.ft.com/content/4b6449da-3fc1-45d7-a0eb-3cd96bc211ce
> 
> The pandemic had already rattled the industry when India’s abrupt national lockdown last year forced the sector to shift to remote working practically overnight. “But now, with the disruption, this seems more serious. This feels like it will be worse,” Sikka said. “It’s just the sheer number of people getting sick.” Executives and analysts say many companies have reported as many as 10 per cent of their employees are off with Covid-19. But that number does not include the workers who are busy caring for sick family members.



Remote working means that companies no longer need to concentrate their resources into a given location to get maximum efficiency etc - it means western companies can now look to have their roles in the "far rung locations of their own countries" to look for individuals etc... There will be more relocation of IT services back to the western world ( i work for company that is looking to relocated over 4,000 IT resources back to the UK through setting up new IT campuses in the UK in all manner of locations that they never considered before as viable).

Remote working coupled with hybrid working adoption is a game changer now.. it works very well and that is now a proven concept.

Not appropriate for this thread .. but things will get worse for India's IT industry and not better from here on out ..

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Hard to do when we would have to live under the kremlins botox dwarfs opression. As i said, lets first kill of pancake face. Then other problems



I don't think homeless and hungry American or British people will support your idea of eliminating Putin. They will first want to question their own governments why the governments are keeping them homeless and hungry while simultaneously the governments tolerate the presence of stupid, muscular women who carry expensive handbags whose price can feed a person for a year or some stupid sports star or Wall Street stocks analyst whose mansion's cost could have been used to create a nice neighborhood of 50 homes to house the homeless or the American government having the military budget for its criminal invasions-oriented military as being 700+ billion dollars for just 2020-21 when those financial and material resources could have been instead used to remake USA's socio-economic system into a welfare system where housing, basic food, electricity, healthcare, education, internet etc would have been free because they are basic human rights. So tell me now, is eliminating Putin something to do or to overthrow the anti-human Western Capitalist system which causes so many deprivations to its own citizens let alone carrying that ridiculous system to other places through imperialism ?


----------



## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> So did the appalling performance of the Russian armed forces. They have failed to operate as a combined military force, with poor command and control, a breakdown in encrypted communications (with the result that Nato intercepts their exchanges and passes them on to the Ukrainians) and useless leadership. Generals almost never die on the battlefield in modern warfare but four Russian generals have managed to get themselves killed by venturing too far forward in a desperate bid to sort out the chaos at the frontline. Putin, in fits of fury, has sacked eight more.


Will have to say this is not a well thought out compaign for the Russian.

They simply chew more than they can bite.

On the other hand, I wanted to focus on why Russian lost a lot of General (4 or 5) and higher level of command. 

That goes to how Ukrainian manage to sip thru the Russian defence net and attack their Command Structure, that require a advance level of battlefield intelligence and also direct strike capability. I watched a Youtube video showing how Ukrainian target the 33rd motorised infantry headquarter (which lead to the death of a general) and I have found it really unsettling for the Russian, because that mean they know their flag officer movement, know when and where they were, and what were they doing in order to be able to strike them. That is a very serious intelligence failure.

I will try to find that video again, it's some war leak type video.


----------



## Ich

Apollon said:


> Lass mich raten...Ossi aus Sucksen ohne Wahlrecht in Deutschland.



Haha, und wieder haste Schwachsinn geredet. Du bist so primitiv. Weißt nicht mal das Sachsen im Bundesländervergleich top ist, also den Niedergang durch die von dir bevorzugte Idiotenpolitik etwas raus zögert. Du bist eine Nullnummer und kannst dir sicher nicht mal alleine die Schuhe zubinden. Da brauchste Hilfe von Mamma. Beim "Denken" wirste ja auch betreut. Haha, wenn deine Existenz nicht so traurig wäre, käme ich aus dem Lachen nicht mehr raus.

Reactions: Love Love:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## Paul2

FuturePAF said:


> Furthermore, If Russia is issuing all its best weapons to try to win this war, they have probably both exhausted their stockpiles of more conventional PGMs and maybe getting desperate. (I hope an Onyx missile technology is also captured in the event it is fired in Ukraine, that will complete all Indian supersonic and hypersonic cruise missile technology leakage to the outside world)



Of course they are not firing those Kinzals, and Zircons. There is nothing in Ukraine they can bomb which warrants their use.

They are saving them for NATO, and as terror weapon for targets further West


----------



## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> I hope your are enjoying your previous winter. LOL


Pretty much, the heating season for the first time being almost extended into April, a credit to the government.


----------



## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> Did I ever argue with your about Australia trade? why you suddenly brought it in and want to force me to talk about it? I only care about China's overall exports and surplus, the earth has over 200 countries, I have no interest to dwell on each of them.
> 
> View attachment 825442
> View attachment 825443


Dude, I am arguing the sanction with you, I have no interest on how Australia or US or China trade, this is Russia-Ukraine war thread, if you want to talk about how China trade, go make another thread.

I am saying China have to be a obedience little female puppy (can't use the word I want to use) if they want to have game, that mean unless they want to be isolated to the west, they were not going to help Russia much. As the many article I quote, Business and Bank are abandoning Russia market. Only people like you think China as a whole support Russia. Well, you can support Russia and go back to eat dirt when US sanction applies to you. Because nobody want to be the next Huawei, Evergande and ZTE

One more article

China State Banks Restrict Financing for Russian Commodities​








China State Banks Restrict Financing for Russian Commodities


At least two of China’s largest state-owned banks are restricting financing for purchases of Russian commodities, underscoring the limits of Beijing’s pledge to maintain economic ties with one of its most important strategic partners in the face of sanctions by the U.S. and its allies.




www.bloomberg.com





See how these bank "sensibly" move on from Russia market. Only sunshine like you think they would help Russia. As I said, talk is cheap, you can or even Chinese government can talk how they stand with Russia, but what they do is what really matter.



beijingwalker said:


> Pretty much, the heating season for the first time being almost extended into April, a credit to the government.


And I enjoy you people paying double for the Australian Coal. LOL

Did I mention I earned $50,000 from trading BHP stock?


----------



## FuturePAF

jhungary said:


> It doesn't look like a hypersonic missile, I would expect it to travel faster in terminal guidance phase.
> 
> I could be wrong tho
> 
> 
> What's that have to do with China is too chicken shit for US sanction?
> 
> Again, name me one western business that go busted after US-China or Australia-China Trade war.
> 
> I have another one, ZTE, ask the CEO of ZTE whether or not US is bluffing? LOL
> 
> And since when did I admit China is with Russia, I asked what can you China do when country want NATO. I didn't even mention Russia in my post. *You really need a pair of prescription glasses now didn't you?*


Russian military says they fired hypersonic missiles against Ukraine as reported by Al Jazeera and video of a spokesman of the Russian MOD

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ali_Baba

fallschirmjager786 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504920449515466760
> Not sure if it was posted before. The aftermath of the bombing of Kherson.
> 
> Looks like the Russkies are falling out of Kherson. The attack on the UA barracks in Mikolaeyev a going away present.
> 
> There's pictures of Russian MLRS and IFVs digging into berms. Looks like their going full on defensive in other parts of Ukraine, Mariuopol will likely fall to them. They will try and hold their gains now.



Interesting way of transporting helicopters ie wheel them directly - rather than drop them on top of a truck to move them which is the western approach!

Wonder if they will make it back to Russia in one piece or if they get RPG'ed on the way ..


----------



## serenity

beijingwalker said:


> You are just in denial, everyone knows that China is with Russia, even you know it . US sanctions? We went through a lot, do you want to know the result who got hurt more, I happen to get some data here.





jhungary said:


> Well, if I am in denial, so did the BOC, and seems like your bank are also scare of little US Sanction.
> 
> Chinese Banks Set Curbs on Russia Amid US Sanctions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese Banks Set Curbs on Russia Amid US Sanctions
> 
> 
> Bank of China's Singapore branch has stopped financing transactions involving Russian oil and Russian companies. That’s according to ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ntd.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know Huawei go bang after US put sanction on them. And other Chinese telecom still uses US chip like their little Biatch.





Apollon said:


> Is China with Europe or against us?



You guys are arguing over something China has intentionally been doing. Treading this middle line. All of you seem to only want to find confirmation of your view and your thinking.

China won't openly support Russia. It causes unnecessary risk. Supporting Russia also for what? So they can do their bidding with their side of the world? What sort of support is necessary beyond buying Russian exports? Which btw is increasing so I guess there is some "support" there.

Military support and direct economic support would create increased tension with US and Europe even so why even do that? What gain has that got for China? None... only welcoming unwanted attention and action. Sure China can hit back and respond but why would China start it? That's a cycle of trading blows vs not rocking the boat.

If Russia is about to be taken over by the US then that's another matter.

Is China with Europe or against? Neither. If US or Europe make some attacks on China, then it would be responded to. However, would China initiate attacks or even direct economic or military support for Russia? That would only give the west reason to respond.

BTW Russia needs no military support.

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## FuturePAF

Paul2 said:


> Of course they are not firing those Kinzals, and Zircons. There is nothing in Ukraine they can bomb which warrants their use.
> 
> They are saving them for NATO, and as terror weapon for targets further West


Apparently Russia used there hypersonic missiles to strike Ukrainian Ammo Depots in Western Ukraine


----------



## beijingwalker

jhungary said:


> And I enjoy you people paying double for the Australian Coal. LOL
> 
> Did I mention I earned $50,000 from trading BHP stock?


We didn't pay more for heating and I don't buy coal, China gets way more surplus overall, as how much China pays for steel, coal or gas, why should I care? China makes more money overal, that's enough for us.

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## jhungary

FuturePAF said:


> Russian military says they fired hypersonic missiles against Ukraine as reported by Al Jazeera and video of a spokesman of the Russian MOD


Again, that's seems like a normal cruise missile for me. AS I said, I would expect it to be quicker. 

But as I said, I do not know.

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## Apollon

Ich said:


> Haha, und wieder haste Schwachsinn geredet. Du bist so primitiv. Weißt nicht mal das Sachsen im Bundesländervergleich top ist, also den Niedergang durch die von dir bevorzugte Idiotenpolitik etwas raus zögert. Du bist eine Nullnummer und kannst dir sicher nicht mal alleine die Schuhe zubinden. Da brauchste Hilfe von Mamma. Beim "Denken" wirste ja auch betreut. Haha, wenn deine Existenz nicht so traurig wäre, käme ich aus dem Lachen nicht mehr raus.



Ich wusste es. Sucksen erkennt man sofort. 😁


----------



## gambit

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> Eastern Ukraine has a major ethnic Russian population. Would not be surprised if they have pro-Russian sentiment.


Would not be surprised if they are now re-thinking that pro-Russia sentiment now that they seen how bad the war is going for Russia.


----------



## Paul2

jhungary said:


> I have found it really unsettling for the Russian, because that mean they know their flag officer movement





jhungary said:


> On the other hand, I wanted to focus on why Russian lost a lot of General (4 or 5) and higher level of command.



If you read on WW2, Sidalin routinely threw his generals to frontline duty as a punishment, until he found out nobody good enough left to lead the army.

Also, Russia has a habit of assassinating own military men when they get too influential.

That's why Sidalin purged almost everybody of high stature in the red army sans that Polish general, and Zukov.

I doubt not that some "getting rid of excess officer staff" wasn't a part of Putin's political calculus for the war.


----------



## Ich

Apollon said:


> Ich wusste es. Sucksen erkennt man sofort. 😁


Ist das alles was du hast? "Sucksen"? Es steht offensichtlich noch schlimmer um dich als ich dachte.


----------



## Paul2

kingQamaR said:


> So did the appalling performance of the Russian armed forces. They have failed to operate as a combined military force, with poor command and control, a breakdown in encrypted communications (with the result that Nato intercepts their exchanges and passes them on to the Ukrainians) and useless leadership. Generals almost never die on the battlefield in modern warfare but four Russian generals have managed to get themselves killed by venturing too far forward in a desperate bid to sort out the chaos at the frontline. Putin, in fits of fury, has sacked eight more.



And this reveals his calculus for the progression of the war.

Russian military will now be thoroughly beheaded by Moscow, and more pliant generals will come, who are just ok enough to do attrition warfare.

Very much like USSR in early-to-mid-WW2 period, until Sidalin realised how serious things really were.


----------



## jhungary

@kingQamaR 

Can't find the video anymore (Probably taken down) but I do found the article that goes with this attack









As Russian Troop Deaths Climb, Morale Becomes an Issue, Officials Say


More than 7,000 Russian troops have been killed in less than three weeks of fighting, according to conservative U.S. estimates.




www.nytimes.com







> Two American military officials said that many Russian generals are talking on unsecured phones and radios. In at least one instance, *they said, the Ukrainians intercepted a general’s call, geolocated it, and attacked his location, killing him and his staff.*



Either US is helping them (which is very likely) or Ukrainian have this capability. Which mean Russia is seriously failing on Counter Intelligence......Which is a scary prospect for the Russian



Paul2 said:


> If you read on WW2, Sidalin routinely threw his generals to frontline duty as a punishment, until he found out nobody good enough left to lead the army.
> 
> Also, Russia has a habit of assassinating own military men when they get too influential.
> 
> That's why Sidalin purged almost everybody of high stature in the red army sans that Polish general, and Zukov.
> 
> I doubt not that some "getting rid of excess officer staff" wasn't a part of Putin's political calculus for the war.


Well, what I am afraid of is this, 



> Two American military officials said that many Russian generals are talking on unsecured phones and radios. In at least one instance, they said, the Ukrainians intercepted a general’s call, geolocated it, and attacked his location, killing him and his staff.











As Russian Troop Deaths Climb, Morale Becomes an Issue, Officials Say


More than 7,000 Russian troops have been killed in less than three weeks of fighting, according to conservative U.S. estimates.




www.nytimes.com





I mean, sure, if they are send to the frontline as punishment, that wouldn't be a big deal (Well, it still kind of is) but if they are using unsecure phone and Ukrainian have the mean (either by themselves or with American help) to trap it. And then have the capability to deliver a strike? Then no general will be safe, unless they are in Russia.

Not sure if you know how much of a breach it have to be to have General Officer killed like that....

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## Apollon

Ich said:


> Ist das alles was du hast? "Sucksen"? Es steht offensichtlich noch schlimmer um dich als ich dachte.



Ich finde es nur lustig. Das primitive Sucksen. Völlig machtlos in Deutschland. Berlin allein hat schon fast mehr Einwohner als Sucksen. Muss schlimm sein nichts beeinflussen zu können. Mein Vater ist Deutscher. Meine Mutter Griechin. Ich war 2019 zu Wettkampf in Dresden und finde Sucksen lustig. Die dumme Sprache dort. 😅


----------



## waz

This article pretty much sums up the war;


Bill Roggio is a senior fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies and editor of FDD's Long war Journal.

*As Russia's brutal invasion of Ukraine grinds on into its fourth week, the physical war rages in the cities and countryside, while an information war is waged over the airwaves and on the internet and social media.*

On the actual battlefield, the Russian offensive has undoubtedly slowed over the past week. But what is being described as a 'stalled' takeover may be the result of the Russians taking time to reorganize their forces and improve their logistics.

On the Western side of the information war, we were told from the opening days of the conflict that the Russian military would break due to high casualties and defections, loss of tanks, armored vehicles, artillery and aircraft, and domestic opposition.

*Videos of Russian battlefield setbacks abound in the media, and strangely there is little reporting on Ukrainian losses.*

And yet, over three weeks into the war, Vladimir Putin remains president and the Russian war machine has not collapsed but in fact continues its plodding, imperfect, and messy advance.

*Ukraine certainly has won the war on social media and in the press. This gives the average Western viewer the impression of a lopsided victory in favor of Ukraine.

Additionally, the Pentagon has taken the unprecedented step of conducting daily briefings on the war, even though the U.S. is not at war.*

The Pentagon assessments often track closely with assessments given by the Ukrainian government.







The Russian military has used a mix of maneuver and siege warfare in an effort to achieve its goal of breaking the Ukrainian military and government and conquering vast regions of the country.

*This is not a condemnation of the West's use of information and disinformation. *

These tactics play a role in the management of conflicts.* But the West should not delude itself into believing that the Ukrainians will be saved by wishful thinking.

Russia has waged its own clumsy disinformation campaign *in an effort to show that its people are united in Putin's so-called 'special military operation' – the name he gives for his country's illegal invasion and war.

On Friday, Russia organized a massive rally in an effort to show the Russian people stand behind him. Meanwhile, thousands of Russians have been arrested for protesting the war.
Putin has also issued a chilling warning to dissenters in his country, likening them to gnats and signaling new repression, while passing laws that make protests illegal and protesters are subject to fines and even prison sentences.

The leader of a unified cause does not employ these tactics.
While each side attempts to promote its narrative of success, one potential sign of the true condition of the Ukrainian defense is Volodymyr Zelensky's recent concession on NATO membership.

Zelensky appears to have caved on one of Putin's reasons for going to war.
'It is clear that Ukraine is not a member of NATO; we understand this,' the Ukrainian president said. 'For years we heard about the apparently open door, but have already also heard that we will not enter there, and these are truths and must be acknowledged.'
Without NATO membership, Zelensky must rely on Western weapons shipments, sanctions, economic embargoes, and other forms of soft support. It remains to be seen if these efforts are enough to turn the tide against the Russians.

*The truth on the ground is that Ukrainians are putting up stiff resistance everywhere in an effort to defend their cities and make the Russians pay for every inch of ground.*
*But short of the quick capture of Kyiv and the collapse of President Zelensky's government, the Russian assault on Ukraine was always going to take time.*
*Conventional warfare is a time, manpower and equipment consuming effort and quick victories are rare.*





On Friday, Russia organized a massive rally in an effort to show the Russian people stand behind Putin. Meanwhile, thousands of Russians have been arrested for protesting the war.
We must remember that it took the U.S. military three weeks to take Baghdad and 42 days to conquer Iraq in 2003.

*The Russian military is far less proficient than its American counterpart, and the Ukrainians are superior defenders and more highly motivated that Saddam Hussein's army.*

As I've written previously, the Russian offensive was launched on multiple fronts and has four major targets: the capital of Kyiv; Kharkiv, Ukraine's second largest city and the north; the east, including areas west of the Donbas region, and the south, including the ports on the Black and Azov seas.

*The Russian military has used a mix of maneuver and siege warfare in an effort to achieve its goal of breaking the Ukrainian military and government and conquering vast regions of the country.*

Where the Ukrainians have put of stiff resistance in the cities, Russian forces are bypassing them to take other key objectives, while at the same time the Russians are attempting to surround the cities and pound them into submission with deadly air and artillery strikes.
This can be most easily seen in the north on the Kharkiv front, where Russian troops hit a wall north of the city.

*The Russian military is now attempting to encircle Kharhiv, while pummeling it with artillery.
They also dispatched troops southward towards the town of Izium, which U.S. Defense officials said was taken yesterday.

If the Russians can push south of Izium, they can encircle Ukrainian troops in the northeastern part of Ukraine and cut them off from resupply.*

This is a classic military maneuver. Once a force is surrounded, they will begin to run out of necessities, like food and ammo.





While each side attempts to promote its narrative of success, one potential sign of the true condition of the Ukrainian defense is Volodymyr Zelensky's recent concession on NATO membership.

Run out of ammo and you can't defend yourself – it's that simple.
*In the south, the situation is also tenuous for the Ukrainians as Russia controls all major coast areas except for Odesa and Mariupol.*
The latter city is completely surrounded, being hammered by artillery and starved.
*The Russian force is slowing pushing northward from there.*
Further west, Odesa is proving to be a tough nut to crack as Russian forces are finding it difficult to reach the city.
*Some Russian forces are also pushing north to Kryvyi Rih with the likely goal of reaching Dnipro.
If the Russians could reach Dnipro, the entirety of eastern Ukraine would be in danger of falling to the Russians.*
*In and around Kyiv, the situation has stabilized for the Ukrainians for the time being.
But Russian forces are on the outskirts of the city, and only the areas south of Kyiv are open.
Ukraine is understandably prioritizing the defense of its capital. However, this likely drawing resources from other fronts.*
West of Kyiv, Russia forces have stepped up long range attacks, hitting Ukrainian bases with missile strikes, including some key air bases near the Polish border.

While the information campaigns have clouded the reality of the situation on the ground, *what has also become clear is that Russian military does not pose a conventional threat to NATO.*
*Smaller, non-NATO members, such as Moldova, are not so lucky.*
Whatever successes the Russian military has had in Ukraine, the operation has exposed serious flaws in its ability to wage war against an adversary with advanced weaponry and sophisticated tactics.





*Author Bill Roggio was embedded with the U.S. Marine Corps, U.S. Army, and Iraqi forces in Iraq between 2005 and 2008, and with the Canadian Army in Afghanistan in 2006. From 1991 to 1997, Bill served as a signalman and infantryman in the U.S. Army and New Jersey National Guard.*

*The Russian air force's inability or unwillingness to gain air superiority over the whole of Ukraine against a less capable foe raises questions about its performance in a potential war against the West.

NATO air power is far superior to that of Ukraine, and would very likely savage Russian armor, ground forces and its logistical support.
NATO ground forces would exploit the Russian military's inability or unwillingness to deploy its infantry to screen against mobile anti-armor teams.*
In conclusion, the Ukrainians are currently playing for time, slowly ceding ground while whittling down Russian armor and infantry.
The Russians strategy is also predicated on time; its multi-front offensives also seek to grind down Ukrainian forces and encircle them requires time to execute.
It remains be seen if time is on the Ukrainian or Russian's side. Good arguments can be made for both.
Wars are ultimately about will – the will to sacrifice soldiers, civilians, material, and land in order to set the conditions for victory. Both sides have shown they have the will to continue the fight.









Putin may be losing information war, not battlefield war: BILL ROGGIO


ROGGIO: We were told from the opening days of the war that the Russian military would break. Yet, over three weeks in, Putin remains president and the Russian war machine has not collapsed.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## FuturePAF

jhungary said:


> Again, that's seems like a normal cruise missile for me. AS I said, I would expect it to be quicker.
> 
> But as I said, I do not know.


I’m just going on what’s reported. Yeah, it does look slower then expected for a supposedly Mach 5+ Missile.


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## Apollon

jhungary said:


> @kingQamaR
> 
> Can't find the video anymore (Probably taken down) but I do found the article that goes with this attack
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As Russian Troop Deaths Climb, Morale Becomes an Issue, Officials Say
> 
> 
> More than 7,000 Russian troops have been killed in less than three weeks of fighting, according to conservative U.S. estimates.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Either US is helping them (which is very likely) or Ukrainian have this capability. Which mean Russia is seriously failing on Counter Intelligence......Which is a scary prospect for the Russian
> 
> 
> Well, what I am afraid of is this,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As Russian Troop Deaths Climb, Morale Becomes an Issue, Officials Say
> 
> 
> More than 7,000 Russian troops have been killed in less than three weeks of fighting, according to conservative U.S. estimates.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, sure, if they are send to the frontline as punishment, that wouldn't be a big deal (Well, it still kind of is) but if they are using unsecure phone and Ukrainian have the mean (either by themselves or with American help) to trap it. And then have the capability to deliver a strike? Then no general will be safe, unless they are in Russia.
> 
> Not sure if you know how much of a breach it have to be to have General Officer killed like that....



Bigger issue is that they had zero intelligence regarding European actions planned against them.


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## jhungary

FuturePAF said:


> I’m just going on what reported. Yeah, it does look slower then expected for a supposedly Mach 5+ Missile.


Well, there you go.

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## FuturePAF

jhungary said:


> Well, there you go.


Maybe the Big Bear is not as strong as he looks. So far Russia has only fired 1080 guided missiles in this three week old conflict. They could be pacing themselves or running out of ammo. Only time will tell.


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## jhungary

Apollon said:


> Bigger issue is that they had zero intelligence regarding European actions planned against them.


Well, but then that's offensive intelligence. They have to be in a good enough network in the EU to vet intel like that. I will not fault them for not capable of doing that

But what I am talking about with the General being kill and Ukrainian knowing their position is defensive intelligence, something they would have, and should have processed. That is lacking, and that is scary for people like me.

I for one will not have Putin visit the front line, that is a good way to get dead.



FuturePAF said:


> Maybe the Big Bear is not as strong as he looks. So far Russia has only fired 1080 guided missiles in this three week old conflict. They could be pacing themselves or running out of ammo. Only time will tell.


Well, missile only good when you get good intel (knowing where to hit and more importantly, WHEN to hit them) otherwise you are just using it as a random destruction tool. Which is what I suspect the Russian is doing at the moment.

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## Amliunion

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505026512210345988



Any statement from Russia stating they will conquer Kyiv in 24-48 hours?

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## Ich

Apollon said:


> Ich finde es nur lustig. Das primitive Sucksen. Völlig machtlos in Deutschland. Berlin allein hat schon fast mehr Einwohner als Sucksen. Muss schlimm sein nichts beeinflussen zu können. Mein Vater ist Deutscher. Meine Mutter Griechin. Ich war 2019 zu Wettkampf in Dresden und finde Sucksen lustig. Die dumme Sprache dort. 😅



*gäähhn* und welche Schuhgröße haste?


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505137394412138497


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## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> Any statement from Russia stating they will conquer Kyiv in 24-48 hours?



Actually yes, their state media Ria Novosty published a victory pamphlet after 2 days of war and quickly removed it ha ha ha



Ich said:


> *gäähhn* und welche Schuhgröße haste?



44


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## Amliunion

Ali_Baba said:


> Remote working means that companies no longer need to concentrate their resources into a given location to get maximum efficiency etc - it means western companies can now look to have their roles in the "far rung locations of their own countries" to look for individuals etc... There will be more relocation of IT services back



FYI - the member you've replied is Lying about IT services gravely suffered during Covid. Since March 2020 it's working on War footing. I had asked him to start a thread on this Subject and debate. I tell you to do the same. 


Amliunion said:


> As if US & EU were immune from looking for Hospital Beds, Oxygen etc.,? Even in the month of April/May IT services were never impacted. Start a thread on this with source and debate.
> 
> Edit: Cherry picking from the Article!!!
> 
> FYI : IT Industry working from Remote since March 2020 i.e. since the start of pendamic.
> 
> View attachment 825370
> 
> View attachment 825371
> View attachment 825372
> 
> 
> 
> Again You've cherry picked Tea & Generic drugs from the Article posted by me. However, ignored that _Yuan can be used as a common currency to facilitate trade between us? _ This is still work in progress. Only time will tell if this is loss for Russia or not.
> 
> Though, it's lose-lose for EU countries Importing Gas/Oil from Russia. They can't even stop Importing it.


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## Ich

Apollon said:


> 44


Ah, so you are a Nazi?


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## Vergennes

In Belarusian Morgues And Hospitals, Clues To Russian Military Losses in Ukraine​








In Belarusian Morgues And Hospitals, Clues To Russian Military Losses In Ukraine


How many Russian soldiers have died in the war in Ukraine? Look in the morgues and hospitals of southeastern Belarus for clues.




www.rferl.org


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## Amliunion

Apollon said:


> Actually yes, their state media Ria Novosty published a victory pamphlet after 2 days of war and quickly removed it ha ha ha


I reiterate provide Russian Ministry Sources that they said that Ukraine will be conquered in 48 Hours?

Russia is slowly and surely destroying Ukrainian Citizens thanks to NATO : No Action Talk Only. 🙄


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## LeGenD

FuturePAF said:


> Russian military says they fired hypersonic missiles against Ukraine as reported by Al Jazeera and video of a spokesman of the Russian MOD


Yes, Russia has used hypersonic missiles in Ukraine.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## coffee_cup

Bulgaria will provide Ukraine further humanitarian help.

However no military help will be provided Kiril Petkov, the Bulgarian prime minister says.


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## jhungary

LeGenD said:


> Yes, Russia has used hypersonic missiles in Ukraine.


As we discussed, that didn't seems like a Hypersonic Missile tho..


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## beijingwalker

Beijing: U.S. slanders China over Ukraine crisis to shift blame​

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## LeGenD

Russia have used following missiles to engage various targets in Ukraine.

3M14 Kalibr LACM
Iskander-K LACM (Hypersonic)
Kh-101 ALCM
Iskander-M SRBM (Hypersonic)
Tochka-U SRBM

LACM = Land Attack Cruise Missile
ALCM = Air Launched Cruise Missile
SRBM = Short Range Ballistic Missile

@FuturePAF 
@jhungary

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## jhungary

Russian cosmonauts board ISS wearing colours of Ukraine flag​





Wasn't the head of Cosmonauts talk about how they are going to strand the sole American on ISS or have it "Crashed" down on US, India and China?

Reactions: Love Love:
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## FuturePAF

LeGenD said:


> Russia have used following missiles to engage various targets in Ukraine.
> 
> 3M14 Kalibr LACM
> Iskander-K LACM (Hypersonic)
> Kh-101 ALCM
> Iskander-M SRBM (Hypersonic)
> Tochka-U SRBM
> 
> LACM = Land Attack Cruise Missile
> ALCM = Air Launched Cruise Missile
> SRBM = Short Range Ballistic Missile
> 
> @FuturePAF
> @jhungary


Any indication of how many of each?


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505127761601605633

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## serenity

jhungary said:


> As we discussed, that didn't seems like a Hypersonic Missile tho..



Maybe that footage wasn't showing a Kinzhal. Maybe it was. Like you said, we don't know and it doesn't seem like mach 5+ missile but its not a Kalibr and the plasma/fireball doesn't seem like Tochka or Iskander.

In any case Russia says they have used Kinzhal.

Kinzhal itself is like an air launched Iskander missile. It's hypersonic in that pretty much all ballistic missiles are hypersonic at some point. So Russia has used hypersonic missiles in this war as soon as it fired its first SRBM on the first day of war.

Russia has not used HGV missiles as far as we know or they have mentioned. Russia may not have any HGV missiles at all. They have Zircon which may or may not be HGV but is a hypersonic missile probably scramjet powered.

They have Avangard which is for ICBMs if I am correct. Avangard is likely a HGV type weapon.

Hopefully no use of HGV since both would mean NATO has become active part of the war equation.

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## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> I reiterate provide Russian Ministry Sources that they said that Ukraine will be conquered in 48 Hours?
> 
> Russia is slowly and surely destroying Ukrainian Citizens thanks to NATO : No Action Talk Only. 🙄



I would say 5 dead russian generals, 14.000 dead russian underlings and extreme high loss of material is quite good action. So much damage and we are not even involved yet. Just send in weapons.

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## FuturePAF

jhungary said:


> Russian cosmonauts board ISS wearing colours of Ukraine flag​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wasn't the head of Cosmonauts talk about how they are going to strand the sole American on ISS or have it "Crashed" down on US, India and China?


Coincidence or are they signaling some kind of defection or rebellion amongst the Space program of Russia?


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## beijingwalker

Chinese spokesman mocks Europe and US : You Europeans should use your brain to think, US is excited about Nato expansion but gets no guts to fight in Ukraine, did you forget that actually US was the first country to get all their people out of Ukraine..

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## gambit

FuturePAF said:


> Russian military says they fired hypersonic missiles against Ukraine as reported by Al Jazeera and video of a spokesman of the Russian MOD


Sorry, but I do not buy it. I watched that other vid but I do not buy it.

For starter, at the speed and altitude that video showed, that is subsonic or at best just over Mach 1. Current hypersonic philosophy does not have the missile slow down for any reason. You go fast and stay fast until impact.

Second, you develop a new weapon when the enemy have something that you cannot reach with your current weapons. Not only that, if you have that new weapon, you still do not use it just for the sake of using it or even to frighten the enemy.

Basically, what enemy of Russia have assets that Russia's current weapons cannot reach? The US. Russian subs have US subs. Russian aviation have US aviation. Russian surface warfare ships have US surface warfare ships. Russian ballistic missiles have US THAAD and Patriot. In other words, speed is the only thing the US, and everyone else for that matter, have a difficult time to counter. There is nothing in Ukraine that the Russian military cannot reach with their current weapons. Russia and China hypersonic weapons are for US, not for smaller neighbor states.

But let us say that what Russia claimed is true, that Russia used hypersonic weapons against Ukraine. What does that say about the Ukraine situation? That the Russian military failed. Am USAF and I have been generous to the VKS beyond reason, but I have my limits. The VKS -- sucks. Russian ground troops can no longer count on air support. So Russia had to use their latest/greatest weapon to destroy some Ukrainian artillery? Or airfield? Or fuel depot? What?

Kyiv is 12 hrs drive from Moscow or about 900 km. But did that hypersonic missile launched from Moscow or from the Russia-Ukraine border which is 300 km? Mach 5 is about 3800 mph or 6800 kph. What kind of threat to Russia does Ukraine (Kyiv) have that must be destroyed in 2 min 30 s ? Forget about Kyiv. What does Ukraine have and where that must be destroyed in 5-7 minutes? Am not saying that hypersonic missile cannot be used. Am asking why? Can I use a grenade to kill a housefly? Absolutely. But why? Unless it one gigantic mutant housefly.


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## FuturePAF

serenity said:


> Maybe that footage wasn't showing a Kinzhal. Maybe it was.
> 
> In any case Russia says they have used Kinzhal.
> 
> Kinzhal itself is like an air launched Iskander missile. It's hypersonic in that pretty much all ballistic missiles are hypersonic at some point. So Russia has used hypersonic missiles in this war as soon as it fired its first SRBM on the first day of war.
> 
> Russia has not used HGV missiles as far as we know or they have mentioned. Russia may not have any HGV missiles at all. They have Zircon which may or may not be HGV but is a hypersonic missile probably scramjet powered.
> 
> They have Avangard which is for ICBMs if I am correct. Avangard is likely a HGV type weapon.
> 
> Hopefully no use of HGV since both would mean NATO has become active part of the war equation.


Zircon is the Hypersonic Cruise missile we are probably think about, because as you said, all Ballistic missiles are hypersonic missiles, it the maneuverability everyone is interested in.


----------



## Amliunion

Apollon said:


> I would say 5 dead russian generals, 14.000 dead russian underlings and extreme high loss of material is quite good action. So much damage and we are not even involved yet. Just send in weapons.


English: When did Russia say that it will concur Ukraine in 48 hours?

German: Wann hat Russland gesagt, dass es der Ukraine in 48 Stunden zustimmen wird?

Greek: Πότε είπε η Ρωσία ότι θα συμφωνήσει με την Ουκρανία σε 48 ώρες;


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## jhungary

LeGenD said:


> Russia have used following missiles to engage various targets in Ukraine.
> 
> 3M14 Kalibr LACM
> Iskander-K LACM (Hypersonic)
> Kh-101 ALCM
> Iskander-M SRBM (Hypersonic)
> Tochka-U SRBM
> 
> LACM = Land Attack Cruise Missile
> ALCM = Air Launched Cruise Missile
> SRBM = Short Range Ballistic Missile
> 
> @FuturePAF
> @jhungary


I should clarify.

I am not saying Russia did not use Hypersonic Missile, I am saying with @FuturePAF that particular video that was show does not look fast enough to be a hypersonic missile. 

I am pretty sure they have used Iskandar missile. Just doubt that particular video is one.

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## Wood

LeGenD said:


> Russia have used following missiles to engage various targets in Ukraine.
> 
> 3M14 Kalibr LACM
> Iskander-K LACM (Hypersonic)
> Kh-101 ALCM
> Iskander-M SRBM (Hypersonic)
> Tochka-U SRBM
> 
> LACM = Land Attack Cruise Missile
> ALCM = Air Launched Cruise Missile
> SRBM = Short Range Ballistic Missile
> 
> @FuturePAF
> @jhungary


Surprised to find that Russia has used hypersonic weapons on an enemy that does not have advanced missile defence. Why waste this when regular missiles can give better bang for buck?


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## jhungary

FuturePAF said:


> Coincidence or are they signaling some kind of defection or rebellion amongst the Space program of Russia?


I don't know actually......

I don't even know astronaut suit comes in yellow.....

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## beijingwalker

beijingwalker said:


> Beijing: U.S. slanders China over Ukraine crisis to shift blame​


Neither US nor Nato have the guts to go to Ukraine to fight, Ukraine is bascially left all to itself. as US and Nato as useless cheerleaders

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## dBSPL

Ukrayna Savaşı'nda Durum (4. Hafta) | Politik Merkez


Harekatın 4. haftası. Gelişmeler Ukrayna lehine görünüyor. Son 3-4 günü esas alarak değerlendirmemizi yapalım. Daha önce Rusya'nın Muhtemel Ukrayna Harekat Planı'nı yazmıştım. Buradaki son durumu, askeri strateji yönleriyle olması gereken şeklinde tarif ettiğimiz bu Rus planı ile mukay ...




politikmerkez.com





TRANSLATE

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## jhungary

serenity said:


> Maybe that footage wasn't showing a Kinzhal. Maybe it was. Like you said, we don't know and it doesn't seem like mach 5+ missile but its not a Kalibr and the plasma/fireball doesn't seem like Tochka or Iskander.
> 
> In any case Russia says they have used Kinzhal.
> 
> Kinzhal itself is like an air launched Iskander missile. It's hypersonic in that pretty much all ballistic missiles are hypersonic at some point. So Russia has used hypersonic missiles in this war as soon as it fired its first SRBM on the first day of war.
> 
> Russia has not used HGV missiles as far as we know or they have mentioned. Russia may not have any HGV missiles at all. They have Zircon which may or may not be HGV but is a hypersonic missile probably scramjet powered.
> 
> They have Avangard which is for ICBMs if I am correct. Avangard is likely a HGV type weapon.
> 
> Hopefully no use of HGV since both would mean NATO has become active part of the war equation.


As I have already said. 

That particular video does not looks like a hypersonic missile, the speed, the entry profile both looks like a cruise missile.

Now I believe they have use Iskandar tactical missile (Which is hypersonic), I am not inclined to believe they have used Kinzhal, because you would expect US intelligence will jump up and down on it. Also I doubt there are target in Ukraine that worth the use of Kinzhal.


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## serenity

Wood said:


> Surprised to find that Russia has used hypersonic weapons on an enemy that does not have advanced missile defence. Why waste this when regular missiles can give better bang for buck?



It is odd. Russian are outgunning Ukraine.

I guess if they indeed used some Kinzhals, it would be to just test the weapon in real combat.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505147048412295169


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## serenity

jhungary said:


> As I have already said.
> 
> That particular video does not looks like a hypersonic missile, the speed, the entry profile both looks like a cruise missile.



Which cruise missile has that sort of fireball and honestly it is clearly supersonic. We don't know how high it's flying to really judge but even assuming low altitude, that object is beyond supersonic.

It's not a Kalibr, it's trajectory isn't a ballistic missile (ground launched). It could actually indeed be a footage of Kinzhal.

Indeed it's strange to use any higher tier weapon which Kinzhal isn't that much of since Russia has been using Iskander which is more expensive than Kinzhal but maybe not as resource intensive due to Kinzhal requiring Mig-31 sortie.



jhungary said:


> Now I believe they have use Iskandar tactical missile (Which is hypersonic), I am not inclined to believe they have used Kinzhal, because you would expect US intelligence will jump up and down on it. Also I doubt there are target in Ukraine that worth the use of Kinzhal.



Kinzhal is basically Iskander but air launched. Kinzhal is not that high of a weapon. They have been using Iskander SRBM since day 1.

Now maybe they are using Kinzhal because Iskander reserves are getting lowered through use and they want to avoid totally depleting them. Maybe they just want to fire a few Kinzhals to test them in real combat. Who knows. It's certainly not a logic of "this weapon is too much like shooting mosquito with cannon so it cannot have been used."

Since it's not impossible they used Kinzhal which is itself not that top secret of a weapon at all and simply an air launched Iskander without that initial booster. Also the footage shows a pretty much straight line horizontal path which means it's is unlikely to be SRBM or much less likely to be MRBM or IRBM, and the fireball or plasma surrounding it indicates lower in the atmosphere (my assumption) and in any case shows it is not Kalibr unless it is boost phase but subsonic LACM are much slower than this... watching the other Kalibr missile video shows this thing is if on similar altitude, much faster than Kalibr. If this thing is flying much higher, it could be mach 3+. Russia says Kinzhal is hypersonic (mach 5+) but there is absolutely every chance in some cases, it flies lower than mach 5. Again it is a air launched SRBM without the rocket booster. Its speed is quite fluid depending on what altitude, trajectory, what phase of rocket boost and how long its been accelerating, what speed the Mig-31 drops it at etc.


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## jhungary

serenity said:


> Which cruise missile has that sort of fireball and honestly it is clearly supersonic. We don't know how high it's flying to really judge but even assuming low altitude, that object is beyond supersonic.
> 
> It's not a Kalibr, it's trajectory isn't a ballistic missile (ground launched). It could actually indeed be a footage of Kinzhal.
> 
> Indeed it's strange to use any higher tier weapon which Kinzhal isn't that much of since Russia has been using Iskander which is more expensive than Kinzhal but maybe not as resource intensive due to Kinzhal requiring Mig-31 sortie.


Well, I will say I am surprise with the fireball too. But then you probably will not burn out with speed like that, you can see the relative speed.

As for profile, we know it is close to the ground (as you can see the skyline) So...

As I said, I don't know.


----------



## gambit

beijingwalker said:


> Chinese spokesman mocks Europe and US :


Yeah...Our feelings are hurt. 



beijingwalker said:


> You Europeans should use your brain to think, US is excited about Nato expansion but gets no guts to fight in Ukraine, did you forget that actually US was the first country to get all their people out of Ukraine..


No, *YOU* should use your head to think. As of now, the Russian military is essentially off the radar for US, meaning all three combat environments of air, sea, and land, the US military *WILL* dominate. That leave China as second place and the PLA have no combat experience since 1979. But as if that is not bad enough.

Considering that Xi gave quick support for Poutine means Xi knew what Poutine wanted, and that mean Xi must have consulted PLA leadership as to the combat capability and will of the Ukrainian Army, and that the PLA must have given Xi negative reviews of the Ukrainian Army. But that is not what happened. That 3 weeks out the VKS failed to support Russian ground forces and left them stalled. So now the PLA have two failed records: Desert Storm and Ukraine. Thirty yrs apart. The PLA is 0 for 2.


----------



## coffee_cup

More than 200,000 Ukrainian refugees have been registered in Germany.

Those holding Ukrainian passport will be allowed to stay upto 90 days as a first measure and will have to register in order to move within EU borders.

In other developments, EU will get around 106,6 million cubic meter of Russian gas today.


----------



## jhungary

serenity said:


> Kinzhal is basically Iskander but air launched. Kinzhal is not that high of a weapon. They have been using Iskander SRBM since day 1.
> 
> Now maybe they are using Kinzhal because Iskander reserves are getting lowered through use and they want to avoid totally depleting them. Maybe they just want to fire a few Kinzhals to test them in real combat. Who knows. It's certainly not a logic of "this weapon is too much like shooting mosquito with cannon so it cannot have been used."
> 
> Since it's not impossible they used Kinzhal which is itself not that top secret of a weapon at all and simply an air launched Iskander without that initial booster. Also the footage shows a pretty much straight line horizontal path which means it's is unlikely to be SRBM or much less likely to be MRBM or IRBM, and the fireball or plasma surrounding it indicates lower in the atmosphere (my assumption) and in any case shows it is not Kalibr unless it is boost phase but subsonic LACM are much slower than this... watching the other Kalibr missile video shows this thing is if on similar altitude, much faster than Kalibr. If this thing is flying much higher, it could be mach 3+.


Would disagree Kinzhal is basically Iskandar but air launch, it's like saying ship launch Tomahawk is basically the same as JASSM but only air launch. They both have different target profile, and different usage. The only thing they share is that they both were cruise missile.

As I said, I doubt there are target worthy enough for Kinzhal to destroy, I mean it would have been counter productive to use that, also noted that their intended target is "underground weapon depot" I doubt conventional HE (Hope they are not using the nuclear warhead) warhead would be able to destroy an underground facilities, IIRC that warhead if 500 KG, which is roughly the same as a Snake Eye. 

Now I don't know if they have any new bunker buster warhead nor am I the one that control what to shoot, so for all intent and purpose, they could really have launch that? I don't know.


----------



## beijingwalker

gambit said:


> Yeah...Our feelings are hurt.
> 
> 
> No, *YOU* should use your head to think. As of now, the Russian military is essentially off the radar for US, meaning all three combat environments of air, sea, and land, the US military *WILL* dominate. That leave China as second place and the PLA have no combat experience since 1979. But as if that is not bad enough.
> 
> Considering that Xi gave quick support for Poutine means Xi knew what Poutine wanted, and that mean Xi must have consulted PLA leadership as to the combat capability and will of the Ukrainian Army, and that the PLA must have given Xi negative reviews of the Ukrainian Army. But that is not what happened. That 3 weeks out the VKS failed to support Russian ground forces and left them stalled. So now the PLA have two failed records: Desert Storm and Ukraine. Thirty yrs apart. The PLA is 0 for 2.


You thought too much, China's non interference foreign policy is pretty consistent, China's stance on this matter is well predicted by all Chinese even at the very beginning of this crisis, and we all guessed it right many even complained that China's foreign policies are so boring in Chinese social media.
As for US, you are just bluffing, remember how many times China called your bluffings both militarily and economically? You are dependent on China now, China now makes no efforts to hide her contempt toward US.


----------



## coffee_cup

Cost of war for Russia is going to be expensive.

According to the German expert Janis Kluge in "Tagesschau", even though the most expensive war items such as Tanks, Rockets, missiles, fighter jets etc have already been built by Russians prior to this war, Russian will still require around EURO *20 Million per day* as extra costs for this war to continue.

This is quite expensive and will mean around *7 Billion EUR per year*. Given the state of Russian economy, lets see for how long can they keep up with it.


----------



## gambit

beijingwalker said:


> You thought too much,...


And you thought none, especially what I said about the PLA.


----------



## serenity

jhungary said:


> Well, I will say I am surprise with the fireball too. But then you probably will not burn out with speed like that, you can see the relative speed.
> 
> As for profile, we know it is close to the ground (as you can see the skyline) So...
> 
> As I said, I don't know.



It's indeed an interesting video. I wonder if it is a video of Kinzhal and if so, what part of its flight that footage shows. Boost, or just momentum carrying it to target and the glow is the friction between surface and atmosphere.

I don't think it's really that possible to derive its altitude accurately from that video. The boom we hear is surely the shockwaves which means as soon as it passes the video taker and the time delay is the rough distance between video taker and object since the noise is generated by the sonic boom and travels at around mach 1 to video taker.

The video now has been taken down at least from that source we have here on this thread. I recall it was roughly 2.5 to 3 second after the object passes viewer when we hear the sonic boom so it is very very roughly 800m to 1000m away. This would indeed by extremely close and assuming that was on a slightly downwards trajectory it is heading towards its target that isn't too far away from the viewer and around 60 degrees + in elevation, maybe target is 50km or less away. Since it's not directly overhead, without being able to really tell the geometry here, it is maybe only 500m above surface level assuming Ukrainian plain lol. If this is the case, that speed is certainly far above Kalibr unless it is in dash mode towards target.


----------



## kingQamaR

Paul2 said:


> And this reveals his calculus for the progression of the war.
> 
> Russian military will now be thoroughly beheaded by Moscow, and more pliant generals will come, who are just ok enough to do attrition warfare.
> 
> Very much like USSR in early-to-mid-WW2 period, until Sidalin realised how serious things really were.



They are having real logistic problems, they were not expecting a serious resistance and soldiers were not prepared for this large scale war. (Although they were transfered to the locations closed to the border months ago and drills were going on…) been decades since Russia had huge exercises Also the mobilisation and maneuvre capacity of the army seems to be lower than thought.


----------



## zzzz

MMM-E said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504872823906570240
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505105270439088128



This amazing and delusional virtual reality world of Ukrainian propaganda reposted by Turkish propaganda 

BTW all TB2s supplied before war and after war (about 50 of them) already destroyed and the only thing they managed to do in 3 weeks is literally 3-4 hits.


----------



## jhungary

serenity said:


> It's indeed an interesting video. I wonder if it is a video of Kinzhal and if so, what part of its flight that footage shows. Boost, or just momentum carrying it to target and the glow is the friction between surface and atmosphere.
> 
> I don't think it's really that possible to derive its altitude accurately from that video. The boom we hear is surely the shockwaves which means as soon as it passes the video taker and the time delay is the rough distance between video taker and object since the noise is generated by the sonic boom and travels at around mach 1 to video taker.
> 
> The video now has been taken down at least from that source we have here on this thread. I recall it was roughly 2.5 to 3 second after the object passes viewer when we hear the sonic boom so it is very very roughly 800m to 1000m away. This would indeed by extremely close and assuming that was on a slightly downwards trajectory it is heading towards its target that isn't too far away from the viewer and around 60 degrees + in elevation, maybe target is 50km or less away. Since it's not directly overhead, without being able to really tell the geometry here, it is maybe only 500m above surface level assuming Ukrainian plain lol. If this is the case, that speed is certainly far above Kalibr unless it is in dash mode towards target.


Well, you can clearly see the profile of the missile, so I am thinking it is not really that far from he ground perspective. maybe below 500 ft. The further up the missile get the harder to see a full profile.

I cannot tell you what, but from the cruise missile attack I have seen, this look just like other cruise missile attack I have seen.

That's what I can tell you

And if the original video has already been taken down, maybe we should drop this as well.


----------



## serenity

jhungary said:


> Would disagree Kinzhal is basically Iskandar but air launch, it's like saying ship launch Tomahawk is basically the same as JASSM but only air launch. They both have different target profile, and different usage. The only thing they share is that they both were cruise missile.



Certainly they are different and flight paths much different. But the weapon itself is not that much more advanced than an SRBM Iskander. It could even be cheaper since it doesn't require the initial boost stage. However it requires a Mig-31 and a sortie.



jhungary said:


> As I said, I doubt there are target worthy enough for Kinzhal to destroy, I mean it would have been counter productive to use that, also noted that their intended target is "underground weapon depot" I doubt conventional HE (Hope they are not using the nuclear warhead) warhead would be able to destroy an underground facilities, IIRC that warhead if 500 KG, which is roughly the same as a Snake Eye.



Well this is a big assumption. For all we know maybe there are targets worthy of using a Kinzhal. And if no target worthy, it still doesn't logically dictate Kinzhal cannot and would not be used.

Maybe the Russians just wanted to use it. Maybe the target they considered to be moving out. Maybe the Russians have a few Mig-31 armed with Kinzhal doing sorties 500km + away and any time they receive intel about vital and important high value targets on the move, they fire Kinzhal for the time sensitivity reason.

Who knows.


----------



## beijingwalker

gambit said:


> And you thought none, especially what I said about the PLA.


I don't think about nonsense.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## serenity

jhungary said:


> Well, you can clearly see the profile of the missile, so I am thinking it is not really that far from he ground perspective. maybe below 500 ft. The further up the missile get the harder to see a full profile.
> 
> I cannot tell you what, but from the cruise missile attack I have seen, this look just like other cruise missile attack I have seen.
> 
> That's what I can tell you
> 
> And if the original video has already been taken down, maybe we should drop this as well.



Normally LACMs hug the ground. Kalibr is like 50m above ground in one video and that speed was slower than this through the frame of the video. Anyway I gotta say, this is nothing like a typical LACM.

And we couldn't really see the profile at all in that video. It was just a glow. The link we have has been removed but if you find another, post it please.


----------



## dBSPL

A Ukrainian SOF operator - armed with an indigenous Ukrainian "Malyuk" bullpup assault rifle, and wearing a very sophisticated set of GPNVG-18 night vision goggles (that cost around $40,000).






The equipment level of the Ukrainian soldiers is surprisingly very good. The report I shared in my previous message also refers to this. We can say that the USA made this preparation well in Ukraine.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> Oh yeah, China said it, then it must be true.
> 
> It's like when Russia said they try to "Denazify" a Jewish Regime. And then turn around and destroy Babi Yar holocaust Museum, sure, it's all about a Nazi Jew, right?
> 
> Dude, I even felt stupid typing it.......




Israeli investigators proved that was a hoax.









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Native Russian speaking people of Ukraine are demanding more weapons and a no fly zone, One of them asked the US senate to provide it. His name was Zelinski. For every Zellensky there are probably 1000 ethnic Russians in Ukraine who would rather be part of Russia as of now--until they realize...



defence.pk

Reactions: Like Like:
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## gambit

beijingwalker said:


> I don't think about nonsense.


It is too bad that you think PLA related issues are nonsense.

Remember when I showed how corrupt is the PLA, particularly when PLA officers sells/buys ranks and assignments and that it *WILL* result in incompetent officers at all levels of leadership? How about the possibility that the PLA falsely negative assessment of the Ukraine situation came from those incompetent officers? Your PLA leadership is watching this Russia-Ukraine war closely and they do not like what they see.


----------



## jhungary

serenity said:


> Certainly they are different and flight paths much different. But the weapon itself is not that much more advanced than an SRBM Iskander. It could even be cheaper since it doesn't require the initial boost stage. However it requires a Mig-31 and a sortie.
> 
> 
> 
> Well this is a big assumption. For all we know maybe there are targets worthy of using a Kinzhal. And if no target worthy, it still doesn't logically dictate Kinzhal cannot and would not be used.
> 
> Maybe the Russians just wanted to use it. Maybe the target they considered to be moving out. Maybe the Russians have a few Mig-31 armed with Kinzhal doing sorties 500km + away and any time they receive intel about vital and important high value targets on the move, they fire Kinzhal for the time sensitivity reason.
> 
> Who knows.


Well, they claim they had targeted an underground weapon depot with it (that is what the Russian release said) 
Which unless they have some sort of bunkerbusting warhead we dont know about, it's unlikely a 500kg warhead can penetrate underground. Again, that's more or less like a 1000 pound snakeeye 

I personally saw a 2000lb JDAM didn't even dent the ground (probably making a 3 meters crater), I doubt they are getting anything underground with this.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Zala drone films Kinzhal strike launched by MiG-31K 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505135964485992453


----------



## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Israeli investigators proved that was a hoax.


What is a hoax?

The missile attack or the damage? You do know the damage is well documented and there are numerous photo showing the damage of the memorial.

And if you are talking about the missile attack is a false flag, then you need to show proof.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> What is a hoax?
> 
> The missile attack or the damage? You do know the damage is well documented and there are numerous photo showing the damage to the exterior and interior of the memorial.
> 
> And if you are talking about the missile attack is a false flag, then you need to show proof.











סיירתי באתר ההנצחה בבאבי יאר. שום דבר לא נפגע שם אתמול


האוקראינים דיווחו כי אתר ההנצחה לעשרות אלפי הנרצחים בשואה ניזוק על ידי הרוסים, אבל אחרי סיור ברגל אני יכול לומר - זה לא תואם את המציאות. הפגיעה הקרובה ביותר לבאבי יאר הייתה במגדל התקשורת, וגם הוא עצמו לא ניזוק - פרט לפגיעות קטנות של רסיסים. רון בן ישי מדווח מקייב




www-ynet-co-il.translate.goog





Memorial still stands with photo evidence


----------



## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> סיירתי באתר ההנצחה בבאבי יאר. שום דבר לא נפגע שם אתמול
> 
> 
> האוקראינים דיווחו כי אתר ההנצחה לעשרות אלפי הנרצחים בשואה ניזוק על ידי הרוסים, אבל אחרי סיור ברגל אני יכול לומר - זה לא תואם את המציאות. הפגיעה הקרובה ביותר לבאבי יאר הייתה במגדל התקשורת, וגם הוא עצמו לא ניזוק - פרט לפגיעות קטנות של רסיסים. רון בן ישי מדווח מקייב
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www-ynet-co-il.translate.goog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Memorial still stands with photo evidence


The photo was a fake.

You can see snow fall on it when it was claimed to be shot on March 2.

Go look up any weather apps. There were no snow fall in Kyiv on March 2, average temperature is 2C - 5C, too warm to snow, and it is also raining (2.7 mm participation) , I don't know how you can have snow on the ground when you have rain, rain would have wash away the snow on the floor..More importantly, there were no reported snowfall on March 1, then where is the snow come from??

Just because some one put on a photo saying there are no damage, it does not mean it is true. And as I said, there are numerous photo of it being damage, you can take an undamaged memorial any time you want, but you can only have it being damaged after they are damage.

As I said, I used to do Military Intelligence for a living, unlike most people (Probably including you) I can spot a fake photo from a mile away.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505094666684882944

Reactions: Wow Wow:
2


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## beijingwalker

gambit said:


> Remember when I showed how corrupt is the PLA, particularly when PLA officers sells/buys ranks and assignments and that it *WILL* result in incompetent officers at all levels of leadership?


PLA's progress and development is obvious for anyone to see and Xi is well known for his zero tolerance for corruption, it's US which should worry about corruption and messed up chain of command, your top general can even get around your president and directly called his Chinese counterpart without US president's prior knowledge, we actually start to wonder who should we talk to in the future and who really calls the shots in US.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

gambit said:


> It is too bad that you think PLA related issues are nonsense.
> 
> Remember when I showed how corrupt is the PLA, particularly when PLA officers sells/buys ranks and assignments and that it *WILL* result in incompetent officers at all levels of leadership? How about the possibility that the PLA falsely negative assessment of the Ukraine situation came from those incompetent officers? Your PLA leadership is watching this Russia-Ukraine war closely and they do not like what they see.



If corruption was a problem then Ukraine would've been fucked as it is even more corrupt than Russia. Ukraine stole China's investment in Motor Sich. Ukraine has rock bottom GDP per capita not much higher than Iraq or Libya, poorest country in Europe.

If corrupt incompetent PLA can save an LHD from a fire in 30 minutes with minor damage, what does that say about godlike angelic USN which lost an LHD to an equal fire?


----------



## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505127761601605633



The Tractor from the Farmer brigade is already there in the first picture!!!

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505059757501161472

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> The photo was a fake.
> 
> You can see snow fall on it when it was claimed to be shot on March 2.
> 
> Go look up any weather apps. There were no snow fall in Kharkiv on March 2, average temperature is 2C - 5C, too warm to snow, and it is also raining (2.7 mm participation) , I don't know how you can have snow on the ground when you have rain, rain would have wash away the snow on the floor..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weather Kharkiv, Ukraine today - current weather forecast Kharkiv - Meteobox.com
> 
> 
> Weather Kharkiv, Ukraine. Detailed hourly weather forecast, today 10/01/: cloudy, 22 °C, tomorrow 10/02/: heavy rain, 21 °C, the day after tomorrow 10/03/: rain showers, 12 °C, weather forecast for 10 days Kharkiv (from 10/04/ to 10/10/): the highest temperature over the day 12 to 22 °C, the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> meteobox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just because some one put on a photo saying there are no damage, it does not mean it is true. And as I said, there are numerous photo of it being damage, you can take an undamaged memorial any time you want, but you can only have it being damaged after they are damage.



Ok you can take it up with the Israeli news website that posted this. As far as I know Israelis are generally super pro Ukraine.


----------



## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Ok you can take it up with the Israeli news website that posted this. As far as I know Israelis are generally super pro Ukraine.


Well, you quoted them. Why would I need to deal with it?

As I said, there were no reported snowfall on March 1 and there were snow on that picture, that's a fake, regardless of who posted it. And whether or not I need to take it up to that post does not take away the fakeless of that photo.

I don't really care if they are pro-Ukrainian or whatever.

By the way, you do know there are way more Jew in Russia than Ukraine, right?


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505155545430478851


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505116181933563908


----------



## zzzz

kingQamaR said:


> So did the appalling performance of the Russian armed forces. They have failed to operate as a combined military force, with poor command and control, a breakdown in encrypted communications (with the result that Nato intercepts their exchanges and passes them on to the Ukrainians) and useless leadership. Generals almost never die on the battlefield in modern warfare but four Russian generals have managed to get themselves killed by venturing too far forward in a desperate bid to sort out the chaos at the frontline. Putin, in fits of fury, has sacked eight more.



You guys duped by laughable Western propaganda are so funny.

So far whole Ukrainian airforce (250+ aircrafts) and Air Defense (200+ S-300 and Buk systems) are completly wiped out.

100k strong Ukrainian army in Eastern Ukraine with 2k armored vehicles and 1k artillery is decimated. 80% of heavy weapon is destroyed and 50% of troops killed or wounded. The rest 50k troops will be encircled and liquidated in next 3 weeks.

The first collapse will happen in 2-3 days with the loss of Mariupol defended by 15k Ukrainian troops and Azov Nazis.

Then 30k troops near Donetsk will be encircled and liquidated.

Then 1,5mil Kharkov will be completly encircled and Russian army will take control of whole Eastern Ukraine up to Dnepr river.

At the same time Russian units on south will make the link to Transnistria and completly cut Ukrainian access to sea.

While Kiev (25% of Ukrainian GDP) defended by 100k Ukrainian troops is already economically destroyed, it will remain blocked and encircled.

After that all the goals of the operation will be reached.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

6th Counteroffensive of Ukraine army against Russia army at Cherson underway
Go Ukraine go






Zerstörte russische Hubschrauber auf einem Rollfeld des Flugplatzes von Cherson auf einem Satellitenbild von Maxar Technologies
Quelle: dpa/Maxar Technologies

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504921997561761795


----------



## gambit

FairAndUnbiased said:


> If corruption was a problem then Ukraine would've been fucked as it is even more corrupt than Russia. Ukraine stole China's investment in Motor Sich. Ukraine has rock bottom GDP per capita not much higher than Iraq or Libya, poorest country in Europe.
> 
> If corrupt incompetent PLA can save an LHD from a fire in 30 minutes with minor damage, what does that say about godlike angelic USN which lost an LHD to an equal fire?


This is a laughable attempt to defend the PLA.

You can have technically capable individuals doing great at their jobs, whether it is shooting a rifle or firefighting in peace time. But corruption at the administrative and policy levels affects leadership capabilities when it comes to war time and you will not know how bad until you go to war. Do you deny the fact that the PLA reformed itself after its disastrous analyses of Desert Storm? No, you cannot. At the intellectual level, the PLA lost that virtual war when it predicted tens of thousands of US casualties and months long fighting. If corruption in the PLA was not a serious problem, then why did Xi forced the PLA to divest its business enterprises? Because he saw that the PLA leadership was more interested in making money than being warriors. They bought their ranks and all those medals they wear.

Do you deny the common sense argument that Xi must have consulted with the PLA leadership about Ukraine? No, you cannot because at that level of leadership, everything is important, especially when your political partner is planning a war and you promised to economically support him. So if Xi made that promise, he must have confidence that Ukraine would be defeated swiftly and that China would be able to economically support Russia should the West respond. Instead, both leaders found the Ukrainians to be unexpectedly stubborn and highly competent at warfighting despite being outnumbered and outgunned. So where did Xi got his confidence about Ukraine?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Bombing targets with Kinzhal.



https://www.rt.com/russia/552284-kinzhal-hypersonic-missile-ukraine/




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505135964485992453

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505094666684882944


Another one??


----------



## dBSPL

zzzz said:


> This amazing and delusional virtual reality world of Ukrainian propaganda reposted by Turkish propaganda
> 
> BTW all TB2s supplied before war and after war (about 50 of them) already destroyed and the only thing they managed to do in 3 weeks is literally 3-4 hits.


Even just 1 successful sortie under the 'air domination' of the mighty Russian air force is a great success. With tactical drones purchased from Baykar, Ukraine took back the cost a couple times with their direct attack or ISTAR capabilities.

In the month-long war, Russian sources have yet to prove that they neutralized more than 1 craft . One of the other claims turned out to belong to a wreckage photo taken in Karabakh, and the other plane shot down in the air was understood to belong to an Antonov plane. Multiple UAVs may have been shot down, but we have 1 sample as evidence.

Unless Russian sources can bring us more proof, the biggest delusional virtual reality of the Ukraine-Russia war will be the claim that it hit all tactical block UAVs.


----------



## Viet

zzzz said:


> You guys duped by laughable Western propaganda are so funny.
> 
> So far whole Ukrainian airforce (250+ aircrafts) and Air Defense (200+ S-300 and Buk systems) are completly wiped out.
> 
> 100k strong Ukrainian army in Eastern Ukraine with 2k armored vehicles and 1k artillery is decimated. 80% of heavy weapon is destroyed and 50% of troops killed or wounded. The rest 50k troops will be encircled and liquidated in next 3 weeks.
> 
> The first collapse will happen in 2-3 days with the loss of Mariupol defended by 15k Ukrainian troops and Azov Nazis.
> 
> Then 30k troops near Donetsk will be encircled and liqudated.
> 
> Then 1,5mil Kharkiv will be completly encircled and Russian army will take control of whole Eastern Ukraine up to Dnepr river.
> 
> At the same time Russian units on south will make the link to Transnistria and completly cut Ukrainian access to sea.
> 
> While Kiev (25% of Ukrainian GDP) defended by 100k Ukrainian troops is already economically destroyed, it will remain blocked and encircled.
> 
> After that all the goals of the operation will be reached.


Yes in theory the war is won after 2 days.

Germany thought in the past so.


----------



## beijingwalker

gambit said:


> Do you deny the common sense argument that Xi must have consulted with the PLA leadership about Ukraine?


Current policy and stance is a foregone conclusion that every Chinese had predicted right, it's a diplomatic policy which has nothiing to do with military, are you really dumb enough to do you really believe that Chinese PLA really planed to act over Ukraine, aren't you?


----------



## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> If corrupt incompetent PLA can save an LHD from a fire in 30 minutes with minor damage, what does that say about godlike angelic USN which lost an LHD to an equal fire?


Dude, USS Bonhomme Richard is a 30 years old ship (It was laid down on 1992). It was schedule to retire in 2025 when the 6th American class enter service anyway.

It's not they can't repair it, it will take number of year to repair and and by the time they finish repairing and left the dock you would have to retire it. Then what's the point fixing it in the first place....

Also, you seems to forget that Bonhomme RIchard fire was an arson. It was deliberately done to damage the ship, that was not an accident


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505157517764083712

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## gambit

beijingwalker said:


> Current policy and stance is a foregone conclusion that every Chinese had predicted right, it's a diplomatic policy which has nothiing to do with military, are you really dumb enough to believe that Chinese PLA really planed to act over Ukraine, aren't you?


Here is what I think happened...

Poutine predicted, based upon his generals' analyses and from Crimea, that Ukraine will fall after a couple days, maybe one week at the most. Then Xi consulted the PLA leadership and his generals concurred. Now both men are shocked at the outcome that did not conformed to what their generals told them. Poutine purged his generals. Xi will do the same in due time. This is what happened when you buy ranks and medals.


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## Meengla

zzzz said:


> You guys duped by laughable Western propaganda are so funny.
> 
> So far whole Ukrainian airforce (250+ aircrafts) and Air Defense (200+ S-300 and Buk systems) are completly wiped out.
> 
> 100k strong Ukrainian army in Eastern Ukraine with 2k armored vehicles and 1k artillery is decimated. 80% of heavy weapon is destroyed and 50% of troops killed or wounded. The rest 50k troops will be encircled and liquidated in next 3 weeks.
> 
> The first collapse will happen in 2-3 days with the loss of Mariupol defended by 15k Ukrainian troops and Azov Nazis.
> 
> Then 30k troops near Donetsk will be encircled and liquidated.
> 
> Then 1,5mil Kharkiv will be completly encircled and Russian army will take control of whole Eastern Ukraine up to Dnepr river.
> 
> At the same time Russian units on south will make the link to Transnistria and completly cut Ukrainian access to sea.
> 
> While Kiev (25% of Ukrainian GDP) defended by 100k Ukrainian troops is already economically destroyed, it will remain blocked and encircled.
> 
> After that all the goals of the operation will be reached.



It is good to hear from someone like you who is from Russia. We need information from multiple sources otherwise a certain dominant narrative is going to lead to wrong conclusions and even bigger disaster. 
NY Times is saying that Russia is making steady gains in the east and that the Ukrainian army in the east is at risk of being encircled. I think that's supposed to be a major point in this war. Kiev maybe a sideshow--a diversionary tactic by Russia.

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## zzzz

Viet said:


> 6th Counteroffensive of Ukraine army against Russia army at Cherson underway
> Go Ukraine go
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zerstörte russische Hubschrauber auf einem Rollfeld des Flugplatzes von Cherson auf einem Satellitenbild von Maxar Technologies
> Quelle: dpa/Maxar Technologies



Thats the only single one succeful offensive operation by Ukrainian clowns in whole war.


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## serenity

gambit said:


> Here is what I think happened...
> 
> Poutine predicted, based upon his generals' analyses and from Crimea, that Ukraine will fall after a couple days, maybe one week at the most. Then Xi consulted the PLA leadership and his generals concurred. Now both men are shocked at the outcome that did not conformed to what their generals told them. Poutine purged his generals. Xi will do the same in due time. This is what happened when you buy ranks and medals.



You don't think Putin's Generals predicted that NATO and US sending so many pieces of weaponry would result in insurgents and Zelensky's desperation would see him go so far as to even release prisoners and give weapons to civilians?

I think Putin's Generals would have realized that if Russia wanted to occupy and control Ukraine it would be all in and against Ukraine all in with total support of West.

If indeed his Generals didn't anticipate that, they are not worthy of their titles. However, I think this is all in your thoughts. There isn't really any solid evidence that Putin predicted and his Generals predicted Ukraine would fall after only a few days. Surely they would have expected insurgent fighting to last years even. I mean they can look at US experience in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan for a start to realize occupying Ukraine would be costly and take a long time. Putin must have some sort of plan and he probably wanted the favorable outcome to be gained in his pushing Zelensky towards negotiations.

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## Paul2

kingQamaR said:


> They are having real logistic problems, they were not expecting a serious resistance and soldiers were not prepared for this large scale war. (Although they were transfered to the locations closed to the border months ago and drills were going on…) been decades since Russia had huge exercises Also the mobilisation and maneuvre capacity of the army seems to be lower than thought.



I don't think you realise what this may entail.

Even if they will be fumbling profusely, and trade 2:1 with Ukrainians, Putin's plan to "have more soldiers than the enemy has bullets" has its cold logic merits.

Even if extremely logistics starved, they still can throw infantry on civilian vehicles at least, or try carrying 20 men per APC.

There is no question now that Kremlin realises that the war is extremely costly for it, but now it commits to making it so for the defending side.

It's a straight Russian mid WW2 move

Also, you don't need talented officers for that, which is we know also a part of Putin's calculus, who don't want his generals becoming too powerful.

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## kingQamaR

zzzz said:


> You guys duped by laughable Western propaganda are so funny.
> 
> So far whole Ukrainian airforce (250+ aircrafts) and Air Defense (200+ S-300 and Buk systems) are completly wiped out.
> 
> 100k strong Ukrainian army in Eastern Ukraine with 2k armored vehicles and 1k artillery is decimated. 80% of heavy weapon is destroyed and 50% of troops killed or wounded. The rest 50k troops will be encircled and liquidated in next 3 weeks.
> 
> The first collapse will happen in 2-3 days with the loss of Mariupol defended by 15k Ukrainian troops and Azov Nazis.
> 
> Then 30k troops near Donetsk will be encircled and liquidated.
> 
> Then 1,5mil Kharkov will be completly encircled and Russian army will take control of whole Eastern Ukraine up to Dnepr river.
> 
> At the same time Russian units on south will make the link to Transnistria and completly cut Ukrainian access to sea.
> 
> While Kiev (25% of Ukrainian GDP) defended by 100k Ukrainian troops is already economically destroyed, it will remain blocked and encircled.
> 
> After that all the goals of the operation will be reached.



Independent analysis of video footage and photographs suggests Russia has lost more than 200 tanks, almost 500 armoured vehicles, 70 air-defence systems, 13 helicopters and 32 fighter jets. But given that not all incapacitated vehicles have been visually documented, the actual count will be much higher. Even as things stand, the number of tanks lost is already the highest in any military action since World War II. And the scope for reinforcing the troops currently on the ground in Ukraine is diminishing by the day. With 75 per cent of its Battalion Tactical Groups the Russian army's basic fighting unit already deployed,


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## dBSPL

There is a trojan horse in the social media team of the Kadyrov crew. They presenting content with a nasheed that has become an anti-SAA anthem.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504866382462259222In addition, the actions of the soldiers in the propaganda video are thought-provoking about the quality of training.


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## kingQamaR

Paul2 said:


> I don't think you realise what this may entail.
> 
> Even if they will be fumbling profusely, and trade 2:1 with Ukrainians, Putin's plan to "have more soldiers than the enemy has bullets" has its cold logic merits.
> 
> Even if extremely logistics starved, they still can throw infantry on civilian vehicles at least, or try carrying 20 men per APC.
> 
> There is no question now that Kremlin realises that the war is extremely costly for it, but now it commits to making it so for the defending side.
> 
> It's a straight Russian mid WW2 move



The big one on that list is man power. I think the Russians looking to recruit Syrian Chechnya mercenaries is a bigger indication of weakness others might disagree there attack is faltering

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## serenity

kingQamaR said:


> Independent analysis of video footage and photographs suggests Russia has lost more than 200 tanks, almost 500 armoured vehicles, 70 air-defence systems, 13 helicopters and 32 fighter jets. But given that not all incapacitated vehicles have been visually documented, the actual count will be much higher. Even as things stand, the number of tanks lost is already the highest in any military action since World War II. And the scope for reinforcing the troops currently on the ground in Ukraine is diminishing by the day. With 75 per cent of its Battalion Tactical Groups the Russian army's basic fighting unit already deployed,



Do we actually have a citation to work with?

Independent analysis from mostly pro-Ukraine groups. Well ignoring that, even assuming not, analysis are efforts from internet users who may be double counting, triple counting vehicles. How do we avoid that even unintentional re-counting of vehicles. I don't think I've seen one single effort at truly trying to compile the real losses with any honesty or accuracy.

What we have seen is a mess and disorganised effort of documenting and in that, a lot of reposting, re-counting, using video game footage, tall tales assumed totally true, footage and pictures used from other events, and so on. Russia however has lost lots of vehicles for sure. But we don't know how many. There is total fog of war, it could be 200 tanks, 2000 tanks or 50 tanks. Although I have to say 200 tanks lost wouldn't be totally surprising. Ukraine is like twice Vietnam and nearly as well armed as Russia on the lower tier conventional level (so not counting strategic bombers and things like SSNs or ballistic missiles). It is a nation of 40 million people and a huge military relative to most countries. It would be nearly as hard as US invasion and war on Vietnam. US did have nearby Thailand offer space for bases but US power projection of course is far beyond Russia or any other country from its carriers and regional bases.

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## beijingwalker

gambit said:


> Here is what I think happened...


Enough said.

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## dBSPL

Ukraine is now officially Syria 2.0

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505158920553340930
Dji drones in Ukraine war


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## Paul2

kingQamaR said:


> The big one on that list is man power. I think the Russians looking to recruit Syrian Chechnya mercenaries is a bigger indication of weakness others might disagree there attack is faltering



Well, I see Syria scenario more, and more.

Just like that, Russian land operations were very weak, but in the end, after years of fighting, heavy artillery, hammering of deserters, and airforce made its deed.

This is definitely his plan now. He knows it will eventually work if he can keep the West sit tightly.

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## gambit

serenity said:


> *You don't think Putin's Generals predicted* that NATO and US sending so many pieces of weaponry would result in insurgents and Zelensky's desperation would see him go so far as to even release prisoners and give weapons to civilians?
> 
> I think Putin's Generals would have realized that if Russia wanted to occupy and control Ukraine it would be all in and against Ukraine all in with total support of West.
> 
> If indeed his Generals didn't anticipate that, they are not worthy of their titles. However, I think this is all in your thoughts. There isn't really any solid evidence that Putin predicted and his Generals predicted Ukraine would fall after only a few days. Surely they would have expected insurgent fighting to last years even. I mean they can look at US experience in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan for a start to realize occupying Ukraine would be costly and take a long time. Putin must have some sort of plan and he probably wanted the favorable outcome to be gained in his pushing Zelensky towards negotiations.


Then you have to explain the Poutine purge of his generals. Not only that, what were some Russian generals doing on the frontlines and got killed? Am not army but USAF, but even so, it is tough for me to buy into the defense that Russian generals leads from the front. Now the other argument is that they were at the front to find out why is the Army stalled and possibly to salvage low morale, and then some are KIA-ed. Both the purge and the frontline deaths do not correlate with what you posited. Of the generals Poutine fired, what are the odds that it contained *THE* army commander and *THE* air force commander, and not just their lieutenants? Also, the FSB chief is under house arrest. FSB is internal intelligence and security. GRU is external intelligence with focus on military related subjects. What if the GRU chief was in that purge? This would be like Nimitz, Eisenhower, Patton, Clark, Marshall, and MacArthur fired at the same time.

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## serenity

gambit said:


> Then you have to explain the Poutine purge of his generals. Not only that, what were some Russian generals doing on the frontlines and got killed? Am not army but USAF, but even so, it is tough for me to buy into the defense that Russian generals leads from the front. Now the other argument is that they were at the front to find out why is the Army stalled and possibly to salvage low morale, and then some are KIA-ed. Both the purge and the frontline deaths do not correlate with what you posited. Of the generals Poutine fired, what are the odds that it contained *THE* army commander and *THE* air force commander, and not just their lieutenants? Also, the FSB chief is under house arrest. FSB is internal intelligence and security. GRU is external intelligence with focus on military related subjects. What if the GRU chief was in that purge? This would be like Nimitz, Eisenhower, Patton, Clark, Marshall, and MacArthur fired at the same time.



Have these been verified? That the Russians lost these Generals on the frontline and FSB chief in under house arrest.

If all true, then indeed concerning and indicative of what you are suggesting.


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## Meengla

serenity said:


> There isn't really any solid evidence that Putin predicted and his Generals predicted Ukraine would fall after only a few days


Correct. I have not seen such evidence either. In fact, I remember in days leading to the invasion as report in NY Times that had American experts predicting a quick liquidation of the Ukrainian military machine. If Putin was wrong then so were others. Anyway, Ukraine is not so outgunned and outnumbered as made out to be especially considering the Western help and considering Ukraine fighting on their home turf, and fighting for their lives and land.



Paul2 said:


> There is no question now that Kremlin realises that the war is extremely costly for it, but now it commits to making it so for the defending side.
> 
> It's a straight Russian mid WW2 move



Yes, this like the Russian WW2 move---where taking casualties is not such a huge consideration as long as overall objectives are met. And I believe Russia will likely accomplish enough to strike a hard bargain.

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## gambit

serenity said:


> Have these been verified? That the Russians lost these Generals on the frontline and FSB chief in under house arrest.
> 
> If all true, then indeed concerning and indicative of what you are suggesting.











Putin Places Spies Under House Arrest


After two weeks of halting war against Ukraine, Vladimir Putin just suddenly launched an attack in a surprising direction — his beloved agency, the FSB.




cepa.org





The Fifth Service of the FSB, *Russia’s main intelligence service*, has been targeted and the leadership placed under house arrest, according to the authors’ sources.​​Its head, Colonel-General Sergei Beseda, and his deputy were being held after allegations of misusing operational funds earmarked for subversive activities and for providing poor intelligence ahead of Russia’s now-stuttering invasion. The operation has hit serious obstacles, not least fierce resistance by the Ukrainian armed forces and the unity of the population, including most Russian-speakers, behind President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and his government.​​This is the best info we have at this time.


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## jhungary

serenity said:


> If indeed his Generals didn't anticipate that, they are not worthy of their titles. However, I think this is all in your thoughts. There isn't really any solid evidence that Putin predicted and his Generals predicted Ukraine would fall after only a few days. Surely they would have expected insurgent fighting to last years even. I mean they can look at US experience in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan for a start to realize occupying Ukraine would be costly and take a long time. Putin must have some sort of plan and he probably wanted the favorable outcome to be gained in his pushing Zelensky towards negotiations.


Well, if Putin original intention is to force a regime change, then he would have to aim at capitulate Ukraine as soon as possible, the longer it got drag on, the more time he is giving the Ukrainian to organise a defence. And you also want to do it with minimal civilian lost. So the take over will not be opposed.

The Russia battleplan echo this fact, first we see the amount of troop Russia use, it pointed at a surgical assault, not a general assault, a quick in and out action with minimal occupation force (You usually need 2 to 3 times the invading force to occupy a city) Also the diversion of 3 avenue of attack which amplified the supply and logistic requirement as they are all 100 of km apart, which mean they want to take multiple city simultaneously which also point to quick capitulation. And finally the way the initial assault carry the troop and the forward deployment of troop also point to the fact the battle plan is for a quick victories.

I am pretty sure if Putin plan originally was to face an insurgency, he would have used more than 200,000 troop for this. He would probably bring along around 5-600000 troop with the majority of those National Guard troop trained with Riot control, This was not the case tho.

Another issue is Russia intelligence and counter intelligence operation. For starter, the fact that US and UK broadcasted Russian battleplan before Russian launch their attack is a good indication that Russia have a counter intelligence problem, and the fact that they follow thru the invasion with the original plan that US and UK announced before hand would suggest an intelligence handling problem , set aside whether or not Putin expect Ukrainian would welcome them with open arms is another issue, but the first two already exposed the Russian intelligence problem without the need to go to underestimate the Ukrainian willingness to fight.

And finally, you cannot force a deal if you do not own any city, you simply cannot trade road or bus junction for a more favourable deal on the negotiation table. Say for example, if Peace talk is going on tomorrow, there are virtually no bargaining chip for Russia to demand anything from the Ukrainian, at this point in time, they hold 2 medium to small size city (Kherson and Melitopol and Kherson is actually under counter attack for now) You can't really go on for a bigger piece of the pies if they were to negotiate. I don't even know if it will change the calculus if they took Mariupol because that city is now in ruined, it does not worth anything.

So with all of this put together, one can assume what the Russian expect is not what we saw here on day 24. If you compare this to US invasion in Iraq, by Day 24, the US had already took Baghdad, and Russia still have not start the fight or even bombard Kyiv yet. What you are looking is street to street fighting 3 or 4 times the scale of what we are seeing in Mariupol and Kharkiv, where both city still remain in Ukrainian hand. You are talking about 5 to 6 times the current casualty number ahead.

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## zzzz

kingQamaR said:


> Independent analysis of video footage and photographs suggests Russia has lost more than 200 tanks, almost 500 armoured vehicles, 70 air-defence systems, 13 helicopters and 32 fighter jets. But given that not all incapacitated vehicles have been visually documented, the actual count will be much higher. Even as things stand, the number of tanks lost is already the highest in any military action since World War II. And the scope for reinforcing the troops currently on the ground in Ukraine is diminishing by the day. With 75 per cent of its Battalion Tactical Groups the Russian army's basic fighting unit already deployed,



Theres no such analysis. What you said is nonsense actually. All available video and photos can only prove the loss of 3-5 Russian fighter jets and about same number of Russian air defense systems. As well as few dozens of armored vehicles. BTW Ukies love to show their own destroyed tanks and other vehicles as Russian ones.

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## Vergennes

zzzz said:


> You guys duped by laughable Western propaganda are so funny.
> 
> So far whole Ukrainian airforce (250+ aircrafts) and Air Defense (200+ S-300 and Buk systems) are completly wiped out.
> 
> 100k strong Ukrainian army in Eastern Ukraine with 2k armored vehicles and 1k artillery is decimated. 80% of heavy weapon is destroyed and 50% of troops killed or wounded. The rest 50k troops will be encircled and liquidated in next 3 weeks.
> 
> The first collapse will happen in 2-3 days with the loss of Mariupol defended by 15k Ukrainian troops and Azov Nazis.
> 
> Then 30k troops near Donetsk will be encircled and liquidated.
> 
> Then 1,5mil Kharkov will be completly encircled and Russian army will take control of whole Eastern Ukraine up to Dnepr river.
> 
> At the same time Russian units on south will make the link to Transnistria and completly cut Ukrainian access to sea.
> 
> While Kiev (25% of Ukrainian GDP) defended by 100k Ukrainian troops is already economically destroyed, it will remain blocked and encircled.
> 
> After that all the goals of the operation will be reached.



So is that what mainstream Russian medias are feeding you with ?


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## Kraetoz

Vergennes said:


> So is that what mainstream Russian medias are feeding you with ?


Better than BBC or CNN. 🤣

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505149405376258051


Kraetoz said:


> Better than BBC or CNN. 🤣



I couldn't care less about BBC or CNN. Their "special military operation" is turning into a fiasco yet some funboys believe "Ukraine has been demilitarized" at 70-80% while the "second world's most powerful army" is being trashed left and right on the ground.


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## beijingwalker

zzzz said:


> Theres no such analysis. What you said is nonsense actually. All available video and photos can only prove the loss of 3-5 Russian fighter jets and about same number of Russian air defense systems. As well as few dozens of armored vehicles. BTW Ukies love to show their own destroyed tanks and other vehicles as Russian ones.


Read them as jokes, every Russian killed in action is a general, I don't believe a word of what western media says.

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## K_Bin_W

beijingwalker said:


> Read them as jokes, every Russian killed in action is a general, I don't believe a word of what western media says.


If you want a balanced view - FLUSH western media/source

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## Kraetoz

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505149405376258051
> 
> 
> I couldn't care less about BBC or CNN. Their "special military operation" is turning into a fiasco yet some funboys believe "Ukraine has been demilitarized" at 70-80% while the "second world's most powerful army" is being trashed left and right on the ground.


You are brainwashed to the point of no return by BBC/CNN, say you care less about them and then start spewing the same thing all over again. Brainwashing right there.


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## Deliorman

Vergennes said:


> So is that what mainstream Russian medias are feeding you with ?




Bro, just look at his posts from February and have a nice laugh... 

And these guys say that we are brainwashed by Western propaganda etc.

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## Vergennes

Kraetoz said:


> You are brainwashed to the point of no return by BBC/CNN, say you care less about them and then start spewing the same thing all over again. Brainwashing right there.



I only care about what's happening on the ground. Reality is Russia is suffering heavy attrition without even conducting major offensives and securing major gains as of now. Their operation is stalled that's a fact.


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## Kraetoz

Vergennes said:


> I only care about what's happening on the ground. Reality is Russia is suffering heavy attrition without even conducting major offensives and securing major gains as of now. Their operation is stalled that's a fact.


And who told you that fact?


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## Paul2

Russian combat performance is outright terrible, on the level of early WW2.

But what is outright terrible is the performance of the Western politicians. I very much hope that this war will throw a spanner unto the usual gerontocracy ****show in the West.

This war caught not only Putin, but the West with its pants down too.

The potential for political black swans in the West is at 1000%. Weak Biden is the one to thank for EU's rearmament out of animalistic sheer fright, and fear. EU's defence spendings in the future may not only double, but go much further than that as once forgotten European nationalistic fervours are back from history books.

For the last 20 years, the US only been successful at spanking its own "allies" on the world stage. The consequences, and payback of that would be unrolling in the years to come.

Ukraine is Suez 2.0, but for the USA.

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## dBSPL

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505149405376258051


When was the last time the Russians lost so many colonels and generals in warfare? Even this is an important indicator alone of the scale of the conflicts.


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## Wood



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## FuturePAF

Ka-52 and Mi-28 working in tandem.

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## dBSPL

Wood said:


>


Dude, Tatar, Azeri etc., your closeness to Turkish geopolitical writers and content producers is remarkable...

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## jhungary

Wood said:


>


I would say Russia has ALREADY been defeated Strategically.

There are already no way they can come out ahead in long term after NATO reunited and EU applies sanction.

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## Vergennes

This is gold comedy @Deliorman @zzzz

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## jhungary

FuturePAF said:


> Ka-52 and Mi-28 working in tandem.


I have posted this video a while ago.

You can go notice how the gunship firing their rocket, that show you they are in fear of being shot down as they shoot rocket up, and hopefully guide to their target. Instead of a rocket run tilting down.


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## thetutle

Apollon said:


> There are only 3 great powers. USA, China and EU. Russia is a former power and in steep decline. So far China needs Europe to be neutral towards it to challenge USA. The moment China makes Europe an enemy marks the moment USA has won. Its that simple.
> 
> As i said, as long China keeps its current warm word support we wont have any trouble. The moment China helps an enemy of Europe means China is a war party and treated as such. Xi did not sound like he wants go that route.


China will be forced to make a choice soon. Russia or EU/USA. By not making a choice they have choses Russia. 

I don't care either way, but anyone that would facilitate the destruction of a European country is the enemy and there should be zero trade with any country like this. 

Any European company that invested in china took a risk and they will lose money. So what. redirect that investment to Eastern Europe and open factories there.

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## zzzz

Vergennes said:


> This is gold comedy @Deliorman @zzzz
> 
> View attachment 825493
> 
> View attachment 825494



Yep, as i said there will be no invasion of Kiev and Russia will not take it, unlike American propaganda suggested. So you can see now that i was right


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## dBSPL

Vergennes said:


> This is gold comedy @Deliorman @zzzz
> 
> View attachment 825493
> 
> View attachment 825494


There is nothing abnormal for the friend, he follows Peskov's explanations. A few days before the war, the Kremlin spokesperson said that they had never started a war throughout history and that they did not plan to invade Ukraine.

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## retaxis

Of course China will side with Russia. If Russia is defeated the West will try and destroy and surround China obviously. China is not stupid and is always 2 steps ahead of the West. Thats why even donald trump trade war failed and he had to kowtow to China.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505158157596823556

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## SIPRA

zzzz said:


> Yep, as i said there will be no invasion of Kiev and Russia will not take it, unlike American propaganda suggested. So you can see now that i was right



What, in you opinion, are ultimate Russian objectives?


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## reflecthofgeismar

Apollon said:


> Ich finde es nur lustig. Das primitive Sucksen. Völlig machtlos in Deutschland. Berlin allein hat schon fast mehr Einwohner als Sucksen. Muss schlimm sein nichts beeinflussen zu können. Mein Vater ist Deutscher. Meine Mutter Griechin. Ich war 2019 zu Wettkampf in Dresden und finde Sucksen lustig. Die dumme Sprache dort. 😅



Well, sure thing bud.
Bürlün is the only capital in Europe which costs the own country more money then it generates.
Bürlün is postliberal, apocalyptic multicultural toilette where junkies are injecting their drugs in the open. Where 3rd worlders have own space to sell their drugs and where you have fatherless blonde liberal not growing up with values b*tches. A shithole.
Yeah nice for you, so you are a German when your father is of german stock.
Sachsen/Saxony = best in German PISA test but your hippity hoppity "European Values" states are degenerated because of these Brussels "European" dreaming.
You don't need to love the Russkis, why should a German do that.
Neither the Murricans.
Would cut both when I could and it will bring a advantage for Germany but we are bound to do Realpolitks and as long as Germany has no OWN or at least minimum same cost/benefits alternatives to Russian resources, you should stand still with your feet.
BTW Foinikas is surely not a traitor or what you called him, he is only a human who actually has a realistic view on how the world works. You don't, how old are you?
And weren't you always more conserative?
Now you are clapping your chest like a monkey and propagating MODERN "western values" against Russia.
That's strange...

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> I would say Russia has ALREADY been defeated Strategically.
> 
> There are already no way they can come out ahead in long term after NATO reunited and EU applies sanction.



Not so fast, I will still give this a 50/50 chance at most.

The West is still all a trainwreck politically across all fronts, and openly pro-Russian politicians in the West are still given a double digit election victory chances.

Sanctions are crushing Russia, but it took WEEKS for Western establishments to make them real, and even that after a lot of bickering, and face slapping.

I would still say the West is in political paralysis, and this war only partially cleared the blockage, no breakthrough change as with Chamberlain to Churchill transition.

USA is having its Suez moment, and this is the biggest thing you should be talking about.

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## jhungary

This is a heartbreaking Photo......by photojournalist Marcus Yam of LA Times

A man in Irpin try to console his dog, who went paralysed from the bombardment while trying to leave the city. The dog can no longer go further and the man dropped everything and assure the dog, spending one last hug goodbye, the man leave the dog behind and the dog limp back home after this picture was taken according to Marcus Yam.

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## MH.Yang

thetutle said:


> China will be forced to make a choice soon. Russia or EU/USA. By not making a choice they have choses Russia.
> 
> I don't care either way, but anyone that would facilitate the destruction of a European country is the enemy and there should be zero trade with any country like this.
> 
> Any European company that invested in china took a risk and they will lose money. So what. redirect that investment to Eastern Europe and open factories there.



But the fact is that the exchange rate of CNY is rising rapidly. Because European capital is fleeing from Europe to China, Europeans buy CNY in Euro, which leads to the rapid appreciation of CNY and the rapid depreciation of Euro?

Why don't you write to European financial institutions and advise them to invest in Eastern Europe instead of China?

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505180891307511813

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## Meengla

Paul2 said:


> Russian combat performance is outright terrible, on the level of early WW2.
> But what is outright terrible is the performance of the Western politicians. I very much hope that this war will throw a spanner unto the usual gerontocracy ****show in the West.
> This war caught not only Putin, but the West with its pants down too.
> The potential for political black swans in the West is at 1000%. Weak Biden is the one to thank for EU's rearmament out of animalistic sheer fright, and fear. *EU's defence spendings in the future may not only double, but go much further than that as once forgotten European nationalistic fervours are back from history books.*
> For the last 20 years, the US only been successful at spanking its own "allies" on the world stage. The consequences, and payback of that would be unrolling in the years to come.
> Ukraine is Suez 2.0, but for the USA.



Remarkable post!
Bolded part, yes, another German militarization is on the horizon and maybe more wars in Europe.
I don't think the last 70-80 years of relative peace is enough to rule out Europeans fighting again as *they had been doing for thousands of years before that in brutal, prolonged wars*. Americans will enjoy watching from a distance while selling weapons... tons of jobs are created through wars.


----------



## Vergennes

zzzz said:


> Yep, as i said there will be no invasion of Kiev and Russia will not take it, unlike American propaganda suggested. So you can see now that i was right



Russia can't. That is the difference. Seeing the mighty russian army performances in places like Irpin (where VDV where slaughtered) taking Kiev is really going to be a massacre.


----------



## Wood

dBSPL said:


> Dude, Tatar, Azeri etc., your closeness to Turkish geopolitical writers and content producers is remarkable...


Good content makers attract global audience


----------



## zzzz

SIPRA said:


> What, in you opinion, are ultimate Russian objectives?



Destroy Ukrainian army and military, destroy its economy. Take control of Eastern and South territories with loyal population. Cut Ukrainian access to sea. Then we can continue with political negotiations about something. At that point Ukrainian nazis in Kiev will start to hunt down Zelensky to execute him. That would be funny.

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## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> View attachment 825496
> 
> 
> This is a heartbreaking Photo......by photojournalist Marcus Yam of LA Times
> 
> A man in Irpin try to console his dog, who went paralysed from the bombardment while trying to leave the city. The dog can no longer go further and the man dropped everything and assure the dog, spending one last hug goodbye, the man leave the dog behind and the dog limp back home after this picture was taken according to Marcus Yam.



For Western media, the life of white European dogs are more likely to break their hearts than those of Middle Eastern children.



Spoiler: Graphic content

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## thetutle

jamahir said:


> I don't think homeless and hungry American or British people will support your idea of eliminating Putin. They will first want to question their own governments why the governments are keeping them homeless and hungry while simultaneously the governments tolerate the presence of stupid, muscular women who carry expensive handbags whose price can feed a person for a year or some stupid sports star or Wall Street stocks analyst whose mansion's cost could have been used to create a nice neighborhood of 50 homes to house the homeless or the American government having the military budget for its criminal invasions-oriented military as being 700+ billion dollars for just 2020-21 when those financial and material resources could have been instead used to remake USA's socio-economic system into a welfare system where housing, basic food, electricity, healthcare, education, internet etc would have been free because they are basic human rights. So tell me now, is eliminating Putin something to do or to overthrow the anti-human Western Capitalist system which causes so many deprivations to its own citizens let alone carrying that ridiculous system to other places through imperialism ?


The poor hungry westerners who are suffering in the west can go live in Wealthy India and wealthy russia where its so much better.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Not so fast, I will still give this a 50/50 chance at most.
> 
> The West is still all a trainwreck politically across all fronts, and openly pro-Russian politicians in the West are still given a double digit election victory chances.
> 
> Sanctions are crushing Russia, but it took WEEKS for Western establishments to make them real, and even that after a lot of bickering, and face slapping.
> 
> I would still say the West is in political paralysis, and this war only partially cleared the blockage, no breakthrough change as with Chamberlain to Churchill transition.
> 
> USA is having its Suez moment, and this is the biggest thing you should be talking about.


I do not mean they will be defeated tactically. I mean Russia strategic goal is unachievable at this point.

Think of why Putin want to do this war? There are 3 reasons.

1.) Regain control of Ukraine
2.) Peel off NATO threat.
3.) Resetting Russia in the world image

1 is probably the only remotely capable of making. But that would depends heavily on whether or not Russia can deal with the upcoming insurgency.

2.) NATO is not going away, and there are no chances that Russia can remotely try to muscle NATO off Baltic, they do this to Russia when we are talking about Ukraine. You can go imagine what NATO will do if russia is eyeing the Baltics or Polnad.

3.) Russian image is trashed. The blunder, the economy downfall does not make Putin strong. Instead it further isolate him. Now, whether or not Pro-Putin politican can mount a comeback in US or UK or Canada or anywhere is another issue, but most likely they will be crushed if they are still Pro-Putin as almost all of those place have bi-partisan support on measure against Putin. I mean even poll in America saying 73% of American think US should impose a No Fly Zone, even if that mean WW3. You can see the public sentiment is turning against Putin and everything Putin touch.

About Sanction, it will never get it done right, there are always going to have hold out, but on the other hand, do we really need any more sanction other than the one that has already done? It went so bad that even Swiss onboard (Which most of these Russian rich have their money in it) that alone I think surprise many Russian oligarch. There are limited way Russia can turn around and circumvent the sanction and I cannot even see if there are any good even if China do help Russia 100%. They lost too much market in the west and that is something Putin and his buddy cannot replace. Any further sanction in my view is just more nail to the coffin.

So by invading Ukraine, Putin turned NATO against him and forcing himself to fight a proxy war with NATO, which is something you do not want to do. On the other hand, what did NATO got to lose? At worse billions dollars worth of military equipment and, well , Ukraine.


----------



## beijingwalker

China's Vice Foreign Minister Blames NATO For War in Ukraine​His comments come after the U.S. President and Chinese leader Xi Jinping had a conversation about the war Friday​*Published 6 mins ago*​
China’s vice foreign minister reiterated blame against NATO for the war in Ukraine and criticized sanctions against Russia in a speech delivered at a conference in Beijing Saturday.

Le Yucheng said NATO was a “Cold War vestige” and that its expansion could result in “repercussions too dreadful to contemplate” from a major power like Russia.

His comments come after the U.S. President and Chinese leader Xi Jinping had a conversation about the war Friday.

China has consistently blamed the security bloc, led by the U.S., as pushing things to a crisis point between Russia and Ukraine.

Le went on also to criticize the economic sanctions against Russia.

“Sanctions against Russia are now going to such lengths that globalization is used as a weapon, even people from the sports, cultural, art and entertainment communities are not spared,” Le said.

China’s government tried to distance itself from Russia’s offensive, but has avoided the criticism many other nations have leveled at Moscow, and continues refrain from calling it an invasion.









China’s Vice Foreign Minister Blames NATO For War in Ukraine


China’s vice foreign minister reiterated blame against NATO for the war in Ukraine and criticized sanctions against Russia in a speech delivered at a conference in Beijing Saturday




www.nbcnewyork.com

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Will have to say this is not a well thought out compaign for the Russian.
> 
> They simply chew more than they can bite.
> 
> On the other hand, I wanted to focus on why Russian lost a lot of General (4 or 5) and higher level of command.
> 
> That goes to how Ukrainian manage to sip thru the Russian defence net and attack their Command Structure, that require a advance level of battlefield intelligence and also direct strike capability. I watched a Youtube video showing how Ukrainian target the 33rd motorised infantry headquarter (which lead to the death of a general) and I have found it really unsettling for the Russian, because that mean they know their flag officer movement, know when and where they were, and what were they doing in order to be able to strike them. That is a very serious intelligence failure.
> 
> I will try to find that video again, it's some war leak type video.


It just means that the NSA has almost complete insight into Russian communications and troop movements. 

And they are giving it to the ukranians in real time

I mean they knew the day putin would invade. Russians should be pretty worried

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## Paul2

MH.Yang said:


> For Western media, the life of white European dogs are more likely to break their hearts than those of Middle Eastern children.
> 
> View attachment 825497



The 30 years of peace for the West were more devastating than 150 years of Napoleonic-Prussian-wars-WW1-WW2-Cold War period

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> It just means that the NSA has almost complete insight into Russian communications and troop movements.
> 
> And they are giving it to the ukranians in real time
> 
> I mean they knew the day putin would invade. Russians should be pretty worried


The follow up report suggest that those general uses non-encrypted comm and that is how Ukrainian able to track them. And then even if US hand them those intel, they would still have to have the capability to strike them.

Any one of those capability is probably not going to change much, but when you put them together, that's another story.


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## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> English: When did Russia say that it will concur Ukraine in 48 hours?
> 
> German: Wann hat Russland gesagt, dass es der Ukraine in 48 Stunden zustimmen wird?
> 
> Greek: Πότε είπε η Ρωσία ότι θα συμφωνήσει με την Ουκρανία σε 48 ώρες;



Here 









Ukraine invasion: Russian state media article deleted after suggesting Russia victory achieved


RIA's article claimed "Ukraine has returned to Russia" and "there will be no more Ukraine as anti-Russia", but a pro-Ukraine news source says that because the story appeared "exactly at 8:00. That means, the publication was planned in advance".




news.sky.com


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## jamahir

thetutle said:


> The poor hungry westerners who are suffering in the west can go live in Wealthy India and wealthy russia where its so much better.



Did I say India is a Communist-Socialist society like the former Libyan Jamahiriya where there were no homeless, where one got medical treatment without exchange of money, where there was free education, where water was free etc ? I am sure the homeless and hunger Westerners would have preferred to live there than be driven to dementia by the deprivations of living day in and day out on the streets in USA or Britain.

And your mentioning of wealth is in the sense of you not understanding what wealth is. Please read this post of mine on that.

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## Wood

Paul2 said:


> Not so fast, I will still give this a 50/50 chance at most.
> 
> The West is still all a trainwreck politically across all fronts, and openly pro-Russian politicians in the West are still given a double digit election victory chances.
> 
> Sanctions are crushing Russia, but it took WEEKS for Western establishments to make them real, and even that after a lot of bickering, and face slapping.
> 
> I would still say the West is in political paralysis, and this war only partially cleared the blockage, no breakthrough change as with Chamberlain to Churchill transition.
> 
> USA is having its Suez moment, and this is the biggest thing you should be talking about.


Trump has moderated his support for Putin now. He calls Putin a changed man now


----------



## beijingwalker

China tries to stop questions about Ukraine stance by asking G20 not to discuss war​
Beijing is lobbying Indonesia to take the conflict off the agenda at the group’s summit in Bali, saying it should stick to economic matters









China asks G20 not to discuss Ukraine as stance faces growing scrutiny


Beijing is lobbying Indonesia to take the conflict off the agenda at the group’s summit in Bali, saying it should stick to economic matters.




www.scmp.com


----------



## Apollon

reflecthofgeismar said:


> Well, sure thing bud.
> Bürlün is the only capital in Europe which costs the own country more money then it generates.
> Bürlün is postliberal, apocalyptic multicultural toilette where junkies are injecting their drugs in the open. Where 3rd worlders have own space to sell their drugs and where you have fatherless blonde liberal not growing up with values b*tches. A shithole.
> Yeah nice for you, so you are a German when your father is of german stock.
> Sachsen/Saxony = best in German PISA test but your hippity hoppity "European Values" states are degenerated because of these Brussels "European" dreaming.
> You don't need to love the Russkis, why should a German do that.
> Neither the Murricans.
> Would cut both when I could and it will bring a advantage for Germany but we are bound to do Realpolitks and as long as Germany has no OWN or at least minimum same cost/benefits alternatives to Russian resources, you should stand still with your feet.
> BTW Foinikas is surely not a traitor or what you called him, he is only a human who actually has a realistic view on how the world works. You don't, how old are you?
> And weren't you always more conserative?
> Now you are clapping your chest like a monkey and propagating MODERN "western values" against Russia.
> That's strange...



I am conservative. Conservative doesnt mean that i support primitivism. Russia is primitive to the core and one of the few places i find outright disgusting. Im also conservative in the way that i dont want see enemies defeated, i want see them dead.


----------



## Amliunion

Apollon said:


> Here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine invasion: Russian state media article deleted after suggesting Russia victory achieved
> 
> 
> RIA's article claimed "Ukraine has returned to Russia" and "there will be no more Ukraine as anti-Russia", but a pro-Ukraine news source says that because the story appeared "exactly at 8:00. That means, the publication was planned in advance".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.sky.com



From your article:



> It is not known whether publication of the article was a mistake but one pro-Ukrainian news source claims that it was put out automatically two days after the invasion of Ukraine, in expectation that a victory would be completed in 48 hours



Information WareFare: Hoax that Russia in 2022 said it will take Ukraine in 48 hours.



> Nexta, a Belarusian media outlet primarily distributed through Telegram and YouTube channels which was widely used during the Belarusian protests in 2020 and 2021, said in a tweet the article showed Russia "planned to take Ukraine in two days".

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## FairAndUnbiased

gambit said:


> This is a laughable attempt to defend the PLA.
> 
> You can have technically capable individuals doing great at their jobs, whether it is shooting a rifle or firefighting in peace time. But corruption at the administrative and policy levels affects leadership capabilities when it comes to war time and you will not know how bad until you go to war. Do you deny the fact that the PLA reformed itself after its disastrous analyses of Desert Storm? No, you cannot. At the intellectual level, the PLA lost that virtual war when it predicted tens of thousands of US casualties and months long fighting. If corruption in the PLA was not a serious problem, then why did Xi forced the PLA to divest its business enterprises? Because he saw that the PLA leadership was more interested in making money than being warriors. They bought their ranks and all those medals they wear.
> 
> Do you deny the common sense argument that Xi must have consulted with the PLA leadership about Ukraine? No, you cannot because at that level of leadership, everything is important, especially when your political partner is planning a war and you promised to economically support him. So if Xi made that promise, he must have confidence that Ukraine would be defeated swiftly and that China would be able to economically support Russia should the West respond. Instead, both leaders found the Ukrainians to be unexpectedly stubborn and highly competent at warfighting despite being outnumbered and outgunned. So where did Xi got his confidence about Ukraine?


Xi didn't force the PLA to divest its business enterprises. That event preceded Xi by 20 years even by US sources. So that assertion of yours is factually incorrect.

1991 Iraq had 1/20th the population of the US and 1/50 the GDP. It was always going to be a stomp, only question was by how much.

2022 Ukraine has over 1/4 the population of Russia and 1/8 the GDP. Relative to Russia, they're as big as Imperial Japan was compared to the US. Imperial Japan handed US a few defeats but still lost in the end.



gambit said:


> Here is what I think happened...
> 
> Poutine predicted, based upon his generals' analyses and from Crimea, that Ukraine will fall after a couple days, maybe one week at the most. Then Xi consulted the PLA leadership and his generals concurred. Now both men are shocked at the outcome that did not conformed to what their generals told them. Poutine purged his generals. Xi will do the same in due time. This is what happened when you buy ranks and medals.


Chinese leadership thinks completely different than Russian leadership has in the past 30 years. Russia has been in COIN mode since Chechnya, China has always been geared for high intensity total war. Just looking at the GDP, population and existing force posture of Ukraine, the PLA based on their total war bias, is unlikely to predict a campaign less than a few weeks.


----------



## FuturePAF

jhungary said:


> I have posted this video a while ago.
> 
> You can go notice how the gunship firing their rocket, that show you they are in fear of being shot down as they shoot rocket up, and hopefully guide to their target. Instead of a rocket run tilting down.


I have only been follow the war (and the related threads) on and off, so thanks for pointing out its already posted.

Yeah, this kind of action could indicate something about Russian morale, willing to get almost close enough, but firing into the air to show the “did their job”. That’s why it seems this war of attrition will keeping going on until, with NATO resupply, the Ukrainians will wear down the Russians into a stalemate.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505186764562087942


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505186741904461833

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## jhungary

FuturePAF said:


> I have only been follow the war (and the related threads) on and off, so thanks for pointing out its already posted.
> 
> Yeah, this kind of action could indicate something about Russian morale, willing to get almost close enough, but firing into the air to show the “did their job”. That’s why it seems this war of attrition will keeping going on until, with NATO resupply, the Ukrainians will wear down the Russians into a stalemate.


Well, I am not a pilot, I am a grunt. 

Think about it on the ground perspective, if I call for gunship support, and then I saw two gunship doing this, what would you think if you are on the ground and in the thick of it??

That thing don't just eat up the pilot morale, but also the people on the ground....

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## FuturePAF

jhungary said:


> Well, I am not a pilot, I am a grunt.
> 
> Think about it on the ground perspective, if I call for gunship support, and then I saw two gunship doing this, what would you think if you are on the ground and in the thick of it??
> 
> That thing don't just eat up the pilot morale, but also the people on the ground....



And if Ukrainian numbers are to believed; Russians have taken over 14,400 casualties (not sure if that means total or just the dead).

Agreed, If the troops aren’t moving forward and preoccupied with reaching the objective they will start to get disheartened if they see these kinds of shenanigans by their air cover.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505190817891328001

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505179179704369156

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## jhungary

FuturePAF said:


> And if Ukrainian numbers are to believed; Russians have taken over 14,400 casualties (not sure if that means total or just the dead).
> 
> Agreed, If the troops aren’t moving forward and preoccupied with reaching the objective they will start to get disheartened if they see these kinds of shenanigans by their air cover.


I don't think they have 14000 casualty (I think that mean all) 

I did read a US report, it said 60% of the Russian unit are now Combat Ineffective (which mean they have 20% or more casualty from that unit) which would indicate around 10000 casualty. US DOD reported up to 7000. So, I don't know

And yeah, I would be yell like crazy on my MBITR if I ask for gunship support and they did this..........

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Belarus getting sore with Ukraine. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505183015588278273


----------



## MH.Yang

gambit said:


> This is a laughable attempt to defend the PLA.
> 
> You can have technically capable individuals doing great at their jobs, whether it is shooting a rifle or firefighting in peace time. But corruption at the administrative and policy levels affects leadership capabilities when it comes to war time and you will not know how bad until you go to war. Do you deny the fact that the PLA reformed itself after its disastrous analyses of Desert Storm? No, you cannot. At the intellectual level, the PLA lost that virtual war when it predicted tens of thousands of US casualties and months long fighting. If corruption in the PLA was not a serious problem, then why did Xi forced the PLA to divest its business enterprises? Because he saw that the PLA leadership was more interested in making money than being warriors. They bought their ranks and all those medals they wear.
> 
> Do you deny the common sense argument that Xi must have consulted with the PLA leadership about Ukraine? No, you cannot because at that level of leadership, everything is important, especially when your political partner is planning a war and you promised to economically support him. So if Xi made that promise, he must have confidence that Ukraine would be defeated swiftly and that China would be able to economically support Russia should the West respond. Instead, both leaders found the Ukrainians to be unexpectedly stubborn and highly competent at warfighting despite being outnumbered and outgunned. So where did Xi got his confidence about Ukraine?



On July 21, 1998, the CCP stripped all commercial institutions from the PLA and prohibited PLA officers and their families from doing business. That was Jiang Zemin's order 24 years ago. 

In 1998, Xi Jingping was just a political commissar of the PLA artillery division.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Zala drone footage


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505117283106050048


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505192583886163972


----------



## beijingwalker

MH.Yang said:


> On July 21, 1998, the CCP stripped all commercial institutions from the PLA and prohibited PLA officers and their families from doing business. That was Jiang Zemin's order 24 years ago.
> 
> In 1998, Xi Jingping was just a political commissar of the PLA artillery division.


Actually PLA trains very hard and very regularly, we see real combat drill footages every single day, US soldiers are made of alcoholics, gays and drug addicts, what kind of combat capacity can you expect from this degenerated bunch.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505069055019044867

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505079167725060099


----------



## Apollon

beijingwalker said:


> Chinese spokesman mocks Europe and US : You Europeans should use your brain to think, US is excited about Nato expansion but gets no guts to fight in Ukraine, did you forget that actually US was the first country to get all their people out of Ukraine..



China should stay by its principle to not mingle into other affairs. Europe is none of chinas business


----------



## Dustom999

beijingwalker said:


> But someone suggested that China was not with Russia only yesterday





jhungary said:


> Again, talk is cheap.......LOL You talk about one thing, you do other. Typical Chinese Government.


Yaa talk is cheap! That's what you have been doing commando. Let's see you picking up a rifle and going to Ukraine to face Russian pathetic untrained conscript.

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## beijingwalker

Apollon said:


> China should stay by its principle to not mingle into other affairs. Europe is none of chinas business


We didn't get involved, just like Nato didn't get involved, but we have our stance.


----------



## Apollon

EASA just revoked certification for all russian made aircrafts like Sukhoi Superjet. By this, no russian aircraft model can enter european airspace, no matter which airline operates them. 



https://simpleflying.com/easa-revokes-certification-of-the-sukhoi-ssj100-other-russian-jets/

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## beijingwalker

Dustom999 said:


> Yaa talk is cheap! That's what you have been doing commando. Let's see you picking up a rifle and going to Ukraine to face Russian pathetic untrained conscript.


They'll poop their pants if being sent to Russia, lol..they are just keyboard warriors.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505160821361430528

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## Ali_Baba

zzzz said:


> You guys duped by laughable Western propaganda are so funny.
> 
> So far whole Ukrainian airforce (250+ aircrafts) and Air Defense (200+ S-300 and Buk systems) are completly wiped out.
> 
> 100k strong Ukrainian army in Eastern Ukraine with 2k armored vehicles and 1k artillery is decimated. 80% of heavy weapon is destroyed and 50% of troops killed or wounded. The rest 50k troops will be encircled and liquidated in next 3 weeks.
> 
> The first collapse will happen in 2-3 days with the loss of Mariupol defended by 15k Ukrainian troops and Azov Nazis.
> 
> Then 30k troops near Donetsk will be encircled and liquidated.
> 
> Then 1,5mil Kharkov will be completly encircled and Russian army will take control of whole Eastern Ukraine up to Dnepr river.
> 
> At the same time Russian units on south will make the link to Transnistria and completly cut Ukrainian access to sea.
> 
> While Kiev (25% of Ukrainian GDP) defended by 100k Ukrainian troops is already economically destroyed, it will remain blocked and encircled.
> 
> After that all the goals of the operation will be reached.



You have been duped by the Putin led propaganda network it is soo soo funny... 









How Kremlin accounts manipulate Twitter


One of the prime sources for fake news on Twitter comes straight from the Kremlin's network of Twitter accounts.



www.bbc.co.uk

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## Paul2

Strong NATO, weak U.S., puzzled China: Ukraine war hints at new order​
Key quote:

_Russia's nearly three-week-old war against Ukraine, which the Kremlin calls a "special operation," has transformed the world politically and economically._
_
Western countries have come together in surprising fashion, imposing economic and financial sanctions regardless of the damage to themselves. Contrary to Putin's game plan, NATO has become tighter, not looser, as an alliance.
_
_But does this mean that Washington is in a better position as the world's leader? Some analysts argue that while the alliance is stronger, the U.S. itself is weaker, especially because President Joe Biden was unable to stop Putin from invading Ukraine._

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505098583925833729@Vergennes

lol spirit of stalin is wandering in east Ukraine. USSR banner is hoisting at buildings. I will save this video because it will be needed for another topic in the future.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505200659108352007

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## Meengla

Paul2 said:


> Strong NATO, weak U.S., puzzled China: Ukraine war hints at new order​
> Key quote:
> 
> _Russia's nearly three-week-old war against Ukraine, which the Kremlin calls a "special operation," has transformed the world politically and economically._
> 
> _Western countries have come together in surprising fashion, imposing economic and financial sanctions regardless of the damage to themselves. Contrary to Putin's game plan, NATO has become tighter, not looser, as an alliance._
> 
> _But does this mean that Washington is in a better position as the world's leader? Some analysts argue that while the alliance is stronger, the U.S. itself is weaker, especially because President Joe Biden was unable to stop Putin from invading Ukraine._



"_But does this mean that Washington is in a better position as the world's leader? Some analysts argue that while the alliance is stronger, the U.S. itself is weaker, especially because President Joe Biden was unable to stop Putin from invading Ukraine."_

Such a wrong reading of the war! America benefits from this war, second only to China, as long as the war remains confined to Ukraine/Russia. We could even see that it were the Americans and the UK who were most aggressive in days leading to the Russian invasion while other European countries were dithering. America and UK can afford to watch the mayhem from some distance. Once again Europeans are being suckered into a war where, if things go really bad, Europe could be destroyed. But popcorn and $$ times in America and UK... on flat screen tvs.

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## dBSPL

The name of Soviet cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin, who was the first person in space, was removed at the International Space Symposium held in Colorado, USA, on the grounds of Russia's attacks on Ukraine.

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## beijingwalker

dBSPL said:


> The name of Soviet cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin, who was the first person in space, was removed at the International Space Symposium held in Colorado, USA, on the grounds of Russia's attacks on Ukraine.


They can change him with an American astronaut and deny Gagarin being the first human in space.

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## MajesticPug

jamahir said:


> That reminds me of similar "emotional" stories uploaded on the internet by the White Helmets "humanitarian" rescuers in Syria.  The Ukranians must have learnt from the White Helmets.



I haven't seen that incident but the 'white helmet' chemical attack was fabricated to legitimize attacks on a sovereign nation. The problem I see is UN hadn't said anything much but tried to cover up the Ukraine-US bio-weapon evidences. The hypocrisy displayed is very disgusting. This sort of fabrication/blame/attack could happen to any nation. I hope China and Russia could continue to press the Americans and the Europeans on the issue. India and perhaps South Africa should help too.

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## dBSPL

In 24 days old of conflict the number of vehicles that Russia has lost so far has approached 1600. *1556 vehicle* visually confirmed, which 726 destroyed, 27 damaged, 223 abandoned, 579 captured. From AD systems to IFV and MBTs, from attack helis to drones, from EW-electronic radar systems to MLRS and artillery systems, from logistics and engineering vehicles to MRAP and personnel carriers; As many as the total inventory of a medium-sized land army were lost.

One of every 3 vehicles lost by the Russians is seized by Ukrainian army in working condition, which is a very important detail.

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## Apollon

beijingwalker said:


> They can change him with an American astronaut and deny Gagarin being the first human in space.



He was nothing more than a chimp they placed in a german build rocket. He did nothing during the flight and was just strapped into a seat.

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## Wood

Paul2 said:


> Strong NATO, weak U.S., puzzled China: Ukraine war hints at new order​
> Key quote:
> 
> _Russia's nearly three-week-old war against Ukraine, which the Kremlin calls a "special operation," has transformed the world politically and economically._
> 
> _Western countries have come together in surprising fashion, imposing economic and financial sanctions regardless of the damage to themselves. Contrary to Putin's game plan, NATO has become tighter, not looser, as an alliance._
> 
> _But does this mean that Washington is in a better position as the world's leader? Some analysts argue that while the alliance is stronger, the U.S. itself is weaker, especially because President Joe Biden was unable to stop Putin from invading Ukraine._


Many people here believe US enticed Putin to start the war and this is all America's fault. The same people will also believe that Biden is weak because he was not able to stop the war 



dBSPL said:


> The name of Soviet cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin, who was the first person in space, was removed at the International Space Symposium held in Colorado, USA, on the grounds of Russia's attacks on Ukraine.


This is meaningless. No one can change history by simply wishing it away

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## Tom_Cruise

beijingwalker said:


> Actually PLA trains very hard and very regularly, we see real combat drill footages every single day, US soldiers are made of alcoholics, gays and drug addicts, what kind of combat capacity can you expect from this degenerated bunch.


We've also seen footage of Russian troops and paras 'training very hard and very regularly', but the whole world has seen what an embarassing bunch of poorly trained clowns they turned out to be.

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## Apollon

NATO has now stationed 100.000 soldiers in eastern europe. So much for Vlads demand that NATO should leave eastern europe. What is clear from this war is, that Russia poses no conventional threat for NATO troops.

We might also see Finland and Sweden join NATO soon. Stoltenberg offered them express membership

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## beijingwalker

Tom_Cruise said:


> We've also seen footage of Russian troops and paras 'training very hard and very regularly', but the whole world has seen what an embarassing bunch of poorly trained clowns they turned out to be.


US any better? don't forget US just fled Afghanistan months ago, abandoning mountains of equipments and weapons, almost like a comic show.

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## Wood

dBSPL said:


> In 24 days old of conflict the number of vehicles that Russia has lost so far has approached 1600. *1556 vehicle* visually confirmed, which 726 destroyed, 27 damaged, 223 abandoned, 579 captured. From AD systems to IFV and MBTs, from attack helis to drones, from EW-electronic radar systems to MLRS and artillery systems, from logistics and engineering vehicles to MRAP and personnel carriers; As many as the total inventory of a medium-sized land army were lost.
> 
> One of every 3 vehicles lost by the Russians is seized by Ukrainian army in working condition, which is a very important detail.


If 1 in 3 vehicles captured by Ukraine was simply abandoned by Russian troops, then it means that there is a big desertion problem for Russian army. I remember watching a video of captured Russian soldier where he said that his unit was forced to match forward at gun point.

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## Tom_Cruise

beijingwalker said:


> US any better? don't forget US just fled Afghanistan months ago, abandoning mountains of equipments and weapons, almost like a comic show.


They're certainly better tranined and equipped than your mass produced chinese junk. 

And they had no need to take equipment in Afghanistan with them. They have plenty and can afford to dump it for the scavengers.

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## Apollon

MajesticPug said:


> You're a lot of hot fart and BS. Do what? Nations cannot keep their neutral stance? Ukraine deserves all-out help while Syria, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan don't? They don't because they are non-white? I hope Russians exterminate your Nazi ***. Ukrainian troops are committing war crimes as we speak now and they deserve to be exterminated and, if they survived, prosecuted for their war crimes against their own citizens. So whites are superior? How come whites commit attrocity by using their own people as human shields?
> The Comedian should be prosecutied too. At the very least, he's naive and has no knowledge of geopolitics, history, strategies, economics, wars, and Western politics. He dragged Ukraine into this mess and he's still making up lies, fake news and stories to encourage Ukrainian citizens to die for him. What a loser!
> 
> You _should be grateful _China is *NOT *sending military aids to Ukraine. You have not said thanks to China sending humanitarian aids to Ukrainian refugees.



I dont care about Syria, Iran, Afghanistan. Not my people, not my problem. 

You know Russians say Ukraine is their birthplace? Lets make sure its also their tomb. 

Thats what Europe cares for and quite sucessfull.


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## jamal18

beijingwalker said:


> US any better? don't forget US just fled Afghanistan months ago, abandoning mountains of equipments and weapons, almost like a comic show.


I remember seeing an interview of the ex-foreign minister of Austria and that is exactly what she said. The US has just had the mother of defeats in Afghanistan, is it really the time to start a conflict in the Ukraine.


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## Tom_Cruise

Apollon said:


> NATO has now stationed 100.000 soldiers in eastern europe. So much for Vlads demand that NATO should leave eastern europe. What is clear from this war is, that Russia poses no conventional threat for NATO troops.
> 
> We might also see Finland and Sweden join NATO soon. Stoltenberg offered them express membership


NATO can obliterate Russia in a conventional war. 

Even if it went nuclear I'd be surprised if 90% of Russia's nukes even manage to take off without exploding in their silos.

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## beijingwalker

Tom_Cruise said:


> They're certainly better tranined and equipped than your mass produced chinese junk.


Lol, but they are the biggest buyer of Chinese junk, we produce junks for junk people.









Gobbling China’s exports, US sinks into dependency


China’s exports rose 28% in September from the year-earlier level, more than the analyst consensus had forecast. More important is that China’s exports to the United States have risen by 31% since …




asiatimes.com


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## newb3e

Tom_Cruise said:


> NATO can obliterate Russia in a conventional war.
> 
> Even if it went nuclear I'd be surprised if 90% of Russia's nukes even manage to take off without exploding in their silos.


i am ure 10% will be more then enough to vaporize white boys!

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## dBSPL

Wood said:


> If 1 in 3 vehicles captured by Ukraine was simply abandoned by Russian troops, then it means that there is a big desertion problem for Russian army. I remember watching a video of captured Russian soldier where he said that his unit was forced to match forward at gun point.


Desertion incidents began to decrease as the war progressed. However, as far as i can see, logistical issues and problems caused by land conditions persist. It is also seen that there were many raid-eating units due to tactical errors.

***

btw, latest situation on all theaters

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## Apollon

Interesing insight at a village where russians were hunted out


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## beijingwalker

Tom_Cruise said:


> NATO can obliterate Russia in a conventional war.
> 
> Even if it went nuclear I'd be surprised if 90% of Russia's nukes even manage to take off without exploding in their silos.


Then what are they waiting for? Your big talk won't help them get guts.

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## Apollon

newb3e said:


> i am ure 10% will be more then enough to vaporize white boys!



Well i dont want to vaporize...but im quite sure russia is extremly weak. I doubt they go nuclear. 

We know now that their army is no threat for us. Its indeed just a gas station with nukes


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## Titanium100

zzzz said:


> Destroy Ukrainian army and military, destroy its economy. Take control of Eastern and South territories with loyal population. Cut Ukrainian access to sea. Then we can continue with political negotiations about something. At that point Ukrainian nazis in Kiev will start to hunt down Zelensky to execute him. That would be funny.


This is exactly what I have been telling them Novorossiya will happen

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## Apollon

beijingwalker said:


> Then what are they waiting for? Your big talk won't help them get guts.



Well i guess even you must admit that russias performance in Ukraine proves they are not a threat for Europe. Also not a threat for China.


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## newb3e

Apollon said:


> Well i dont want to vaporize...but im quite sure russia is extremly weak. I doubt they go nuclear.
> 
> We know now that their army is no threat for us. Its indeed just a gas station with nukes


you should invade russia then!

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## Tom_Cruise

beijingwalker said:


> Then what are they waiting for? Your big talk won't help them get guts.


Because, kid, the few nukes that they _*can*_ fire, can unleash a lot of death and destruction on the world. It's really not worth it.

Russia's nuclear bogey is their only trump card. Conventionally they are a farce. Even India, Pakistan, SK and Japan have better trained and motivated armies.


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## Ich

Tom_Cruise said:


> NATO can obliterate Russia in a conventional war.
> 
> Even if it went nuclear I'd be surprised if 90% of Russia's nukes even manage to take off without exploding in their silos.



Wanne try?

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## Apollon

newb3e said:


> you should invade russia then!



Why should we? We just watch them bleed out.

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## dBSPL

newb3e said:


> i am ure 10% will be more then enough to vaporize white boys!


Are the Russians brown boys?
Ukraine-Russia war thread could be the most unnecessary place for these type skin-color based discourses or populism.

White-man, Nazis, Fascism allegations.. All are reminds that

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## beijingwalker

Apollon said:


> Well i guess even you must admit that russias performance in Ukraine proves they are not a threat for Europe. Also not a threat for China.


Only after Nato shows their capabilities in Ukraine, but too bad Nato just doesn't have the guts, it's always easy to laugh at others when they are working on something while you are sitting in an armchair.


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## Apollon

Ich said:


> Wanne try?



I want try. Putin is a weakling who brought his little yacht home before he attacked Ukraine. A guy who cares so much for something laughable as a yacht does not use nukes



beijingwalker said:


> Only after Nato shows their capabilities in Ukraine, but too bad Nato just doesn't have the guts, it's always easy to laugh at others when they are working on something while you are sitting in an armchair.



We see that our MANPADS cause extreme devastation on russian troops.

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## beijingwalker

Apollon said:


> We see that our MANPADS cause extreme devastation on russian troops.


Seeing is not always believing in todays' world, you better go and try to see if you can do any better than Russians.


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## Tom_Cruise

beijingwalker said:


> Only after Nato shows their capabilities in Ukraine, but too bad Nato just doesn't have the guts, it's always easy to laugh at others when they are working on something while you are sitting in an armchair.



NATO is pumping weapons into Ukraine, that's all it needs to do. And its working. Russia is bleeding dry and becoming an international laughing stock.

Why doesn't Russia have the guts to attack NATO for supplying weapons to Ukraine? What is Russia waiting for?

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## FuturePAF

jhungary said:


> I don't think they have 14000 casualty (I think that mean all)
> 
> I did read a US report, it said 60% of the Russian unit are now Combat Ineffective (which mean they have 20% or more casualty from that unit) which would indicate around 10000 casualty. US DOD reported up to 7000. So, I don't know
> 
> And yeah, I would be yell like crazy on my MBITR if I ask for gunship support and they did this..........


The Russians will reform the units and send in fresh troops to make up the numbers, probably giving out high wages for contract soldiers. Probably also send in police units to try to pacify the areas that have already fallen to them. Probably offer convicts their freedom if they serve for the duration of the conflict as frontline soldiers. They will probably throw everything they have at this war, now that they are issuing some of their best weapons.


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## Microsoft

NATO fought and lost after 20 years in Afghanistan is calling the Russian invasion of 4 weeks "slow" 
In other news Russians have started using hypersonic missiles and Zelensky has started using greenscreens and begging for talks.


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## beijingwalker

Tom_Cruise said:


> NATO is pumping weapons into Ukraine, that's all it needs to do. And its working. Russia is bleeding dry and becoming an international laughing stock.
> 
> Why doesn't Russia have the guts to attack NATO for supplying weapons to Ukraine? What is Russia waiting for?


It's very normal for countries buying weapons from other countries, India buys weapons from Russia, does it mean that China should attack Russia for supplying weapons to India? Russia's problem was with Ukraine, why Russia needs to attack other countries? as for what Russia will do after finishing Ukraine, that could be everyone's guess.


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## jhungary

FuturePAF said:


> The Russians will reform the units and send in fresh troops to make up the numbers, probably giving out high wages for contract soldiers. Probably also send in police units to try to pacify the areas that have already fallen to them. Probably offer convicts their freedom if they serve for the duration of the conflict as frontline soldiers. They will probably throw everything they have at this war, now that they are issuing some of their best weapons.


That wouldn't do much good for the Russian tho.

You need people that know what they are doing, attacking a city like that is not something you can do out of the bat, i mean from some general entry, you are gonna get kill pretty quick and just be a cannon fodder. 

They need people who are trained to capture a city, they had time to train or drill this batch that they send, anything else will have to come in after a few months of drill. 

Otherwise, they are no good.

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## jhungary

Microsoft said:


> NATO fought and lost after 20 years in Afghanistan is calling the Russian invasion of 4 weeks "slow"
> In other news Russians have started using hypersonic missiles and Zelensky has started using greenscreens and begging for talks.
> 
> 
> 
> Greeks are white?
> View attachment 825528


Ukraine aren't an insurgence..........Yet

It took us 38 days to invade and capture the entire Iraq (similar size than Ukraine) and it took us 14 days to capture the entire Afghanistan. So yes, Russian initial invasion is slow at this point seeing in Iraq, we had already captured Najaf, Basra and Baghdad on day 24 already. None of the big city in Ukraine fall.

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## beijingwalker

It's always easy to sit in your arm chair to criticize others, no country can say they can do better than Russia unless they prove themselves to try it by themselves.


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## dBSPL

As of March 19, Russia (including DPR and LPR) has lost at least 250 tanks. These are only visually the number of casualties as evidenced by Ukrainian sources.

6 T-64BV
7 T-72A
3 T-72AVs
42 T-72B
10 T-72B Obr. 1989
18 T-72B3
58 T-72B3 Obr. 2016
11 T-80BV
43 T-80U
1 T-80UK
17 T-80BVM
16 T-90A
17 Unknown tanks

Russia loses an average of 1 tank battalion at least, every day. About 5% to 7% of the total active T-72 inventory was lost. 10% to 15% of total active T-80 inventory lost. 3% to 5% of total active T-90 inventory lost. And personnel losses are the main and real problem. If Russia cannot slow this attrition, it will begin to experience vital problems in its armored units within a month or two.

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## LeGenD

Russian Missile Strike Obliterated Hangar At Ukrainian MiG-29 Depot Satellite Image Shows​Satellite imagery confirms Russian missiles caused major damage to a key fighter jet repair plant in Lviv, Ukraine.​Just hours after the strike occurred, _The War Zone_ has obtained a high-resolution satellite image confirming that Russian missiles hammered the Lviv State Aircraft Repair Plant, destroying a large hangar there and causing other damage. This state-owned enterprise is the only one in the country that is capable of performing major maintenance on the Ukrainian Air Force's MiG-29 Fulcrum fighter jets. Those aircraft have been one of a number of factors that have prevented Russian forces from gaining air superiority in the conflict so far.

The Planet Labs image, portions of which are seen below and at the top of this story, was taken at 9:08 AM UTC, or around 11:08 AM local time in Lviv. In addition to the destroyed hangar, the destruction of another structure immediately to the west can be seen. There is also an impact crater on an outdoor aircraft parking area on the eastern side of the plant. It's not clear if any aircraft were damaged or destroyed in the strike, but it's worth noting that the aircraft closest to the crater are nonoperational types. In addition to a number of MiG-29s, there are older MiG-23/27 and MiG-21 combat jets, as well as airlifters, which Ukraine no longer flies, visible outside in the imagery of the facility. It's important to note that this facility services foreign aircraft, too.









Russian Missile Strike Obliterated Hangar At Ukrainian MiG-29 Depot Satellite Image Shows


Satellite imagery confirms Russian missiles caused major damage to a key fighter jet repair plant in Lviv, Ukraine.




www.thedrive.com

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## Amliunion

sur said:


> *It was statement by American General*, who are used to making such boastful claims themselves:
> All over news and other media, propagandists are behaving as if Rus made this 2 day claim. Rus didn't make any such bluff.
> 
> 
> Gen. Milley says Kyiv could fall within 72 hours if Russia decides to invade Ukraine: sources​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gen. Milley says Kyiv could fall within 72 hours if Russia decides to invade Ukraine: sources
> 
> 
> Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley told lawmakers that Kyiv could fall within 72 hours if a full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine took place, multiple congressional sources tell Fox News.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.foxnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American Officials made similar bluffs before Iraq war.
> There was a claim on US TV that they will occupy Iraq in 30 minutes [though I cannot find online source but I watch that claim on TV in those days].
> But below is a documented bluff of American veteran official:
> 
> "Five days or five weeks or five months, but it certainly isn't going to last any longer than that", Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.


@Apollon Your Propaganda got busted.


Apollon said:


> Why should we? We just watch them bleed out.



Fighting Russia till last Standing Ukrainian. Such Videos of Ukrainian cities must give you & your Government Solace?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505203513474752512


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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505198061131374601

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505222722758098947

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505222750339846147


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## LeGenD

beijingwalker said:


> It's always easy to sit in your arm chair to criticize others, no country can say they can do better than Russia unless they prove themselves to try it by themselves.


Russian conventional military performance in Ukraine is underwhelming TBH.

US-led forces overwhelmed Iraq in a span of just 21 days back in 2003, and they are much better armed now.

Russia has lost more men and material in Ukraine in a span of 20 days than US-led forces lost in Iraq in a span of 20 years.

There is no comparison.

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## Apollon

LeGenD said:


> Russian conventional military performance in Ukraine is underwhelming TBH.
> 
> US-led forces overwhelmed Iraq in a span of just 21 days back in 2003, and they are much better armed now.
> 
> Russia has lost more men and material in Ukraine in a span of 20 days than US-led forces lost in Iraq in a span of 20 years.
> 
> There is no comparison.



100% agree. Even most fanatic russia fans cant call this war a sucess

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## Amliunion

$400 million worth of Western supplied weaponry destroyed in a single russian strike on the military base near Lvov — radio intercepted comms suggest that 267 foreign mercenaries have been killed in the strike. 50 year old Peter from Austria who fought alongside the “international legion of Ukraine” said that 800 to 1000 foreign mercenaries were present during the strike. Around 400 mercenaries were evacuated to Poland, many of whom have suffered severe burns & torn limbs from the Kalibr strike. There’s a high number of missing individuals still under the rubble which includes a high number of Americans, Poles and Romanians. Former NATO officers are Amongst the dead.


Source : ASB Military News Telegram

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## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> $400 million worth of Western supplied weaponry destroyed in a single russian strike on the military base near Lvov — radio intercepted comms suggest that 267 foreign mercenaries have been killed in the strike. 50 year old Peter from Austria who fought alongside the “international legion of Ukraine” said that 800 to 1000 foreign mercenaries were present during the strike. Around 400 mercenaries were evacuated to Poland, many of whom have suffered severe burns & torn limbs from the Kalibr strike. There’s a high number of missing individuals still under the rubble which includes a high number of Americans, Poles and Romanians. Former NATO officers are Amongst the dead.
> 
> 
> Source : ASB Military News Telegram



38 victims rest is russian Propaganda.


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## dBSPL

Russian tanks in the Kyiv countryside. No APS, no obvious protection, apart from reactive armor plates on some. While Ukraine has missiles with very advanced armor penetration and top attack capability, the Russian army needs to be more careful with its tank units.

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## LeGenD

beijingwalker said:


> US any better? don't forget US just fled Afghanistan months ago, abandoning mountains of equipments and weapons, almost like a comic show.
> 
> View attachment 825519



Thanks to Joe Biden.

This is the outcome of electing an 80 year old to office - a man this old would be spent and cold like a cadaver on average.

Vladimir Putin is both physically and mentally tough for a leader on the other hand - credit where due.

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## Ich

Apollon said:


> I want try. Putin is a weakling who brought his little yacht home before he attacked Ukraine. A guy who cares so much for something laughable as a yacht does not use nukes


I do not allow you.


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## Amliunion

Apollon said:


> 38 victims rest is russian Propaganda.



Western Media accepting 80+ fatalities 



Spoiler: Graphic 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505072180790444033





Spoiler: Graphic 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505110459690663936



Everything other than you say is Propaganda!


----------



## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> Western Media accepting 80+ fatalities
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505072180790444033
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505110459690663936
> 
> 
> 
> Everything other than you say is Propaganda!



How many russians killed so far? Including 5 generals. When was last time a western general was killed in action?

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## Foinikas

dBSPL said:


> Russian tanks in the Kyiv countryside. No APS, no obvious protection, apart from reactive armor plates on some. While Ukraine has missiles with very advanced armor penetration and top attack capability, the Russian army needs to be more careful with its tank units.


All these years and they couldn't even install that old Arena-1 APS? All these years they spent all that money on AA systems and upgrading their tanks and they couldn't even make fire and forget AT weapons,big drones and APS.

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## Vergennes

Amliunion said:


> Western Media accepting 80+ fatalities
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505072180790444033
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505110459690663936
> 
> 
> 
> Everything other than you say is Propaganda!



LMAO,you believe western medias only when it suits you


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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> How many russians killed so far? Including 5 generals. When was last time a western general was killed in action?


Do Western generals ride with their soldiers the last 40 years?

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## Apollon

German expert analyzed putins theatre spectacle and says its crazy how much Putin tries to copy Adolph Hitler and Goebbels Sport Palace speech









Sergij Osachuk, Gouverneur Oblast Chernowitz, Ukraine, sieht in Putins Verhalten Hitler-Parallelen - Video - WELT


Es sei schrecklich, was Putin bei seiner Stadionrede gesagt habe und wie er bejubelt worden sei, so Sergij Osachuk, Gouverneur der Oblast Chernowitz. Alles erinnere ihn sehr an die Nazi-Zeit in Deutschland. Besorgt sei er auch über die Reaktion der russischen Bevölkerung.




www.welt.de






I m glad that Europe finally came to its senses. We have cut all economy, science, culture and sports with Russia before its too late.


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## alimobin memon

Apollon said:


> How many russians killed so far? Including 5 generals. When was last time a western general was killed in action?


This shows the true valor, loyalty by russian generals for their soldiers. I have more respect for russian generals then ever before.

Based on un convention. Generals even after surrender are given all facilities of generals of their enemy. So, this means if these generals wanted they could have fleed, surrender but they chose to stay with their forces. 

Us generals are with soldiers in battlefield only in films.

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Do Western generals ride with their soldiers the last 40 years?



Russian generals only do this because they have no functional communication. Also we give Ukraine coordinates and data where they can kill them.


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## CrazyZ

dBSPL said:


> Russian tanks in the Kyiv countryside. No APS, no obvious protection, apart from reactive armor plates on some. While Ukraine has missiles with very advanced armor penetration and top attack capability, the Russian army needs to be more careful with its tank units.


I think this goes back to the argument of which is more potent........the tank or the atgm that started after 1973 Arab-Israeli war. Based on recent conflicts in MENA and eastern europe, it seems the pendulum has swung in the atgm's favor......although part of this may be a result of poor tactics.

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## Amliunion

Apollon said:


> How many russians killed so far? Including 5 generals. When was last time a western general was killed in action?


Lmao. Shifting the Goal Post?  How much money & years EU, NATO & US spent in Afghanistan? 2001 Afghanistan was ruled by Taliban, 2022 they are still ruling it. 

This how Russia avenging Fatalities of it's Soldiers:



Spoiler: Graphic 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505203513474752512


----------



## CrazyZ

Foinikas said:


> Do Western generals ride with their soldiers the last 40 years?


I think some of these generals were targeted for assassination and were behind the front lines.


----------



## alimobin memon

Apollon said:


> Russian generals only do this because they have no functional communication. Also we give Ukraine coordinates and data where they can kill them.


What a joke. Before war u wouldnt have said that their communications are weak. Thanks to information war your view is that russians are weak in every aspect logistic, communications or weaponry.


----------



## Vergennes

Foinikas said:


> Do Western generals ride with their soldiers the last 40 years?





alimobin memon said:


> This shows the true valor, loyalty by russian generals for their soldiers. I have more respect for russian generals then ever before.
> 
> Based on un convention. Generals even after surrender are given all facilities of generals of their enemy. So, this means if these generals wanted they could have fleed, surrender but they chose to stay with their forces.
> 
> Us generals are with soldiers in battlefield only in films.




I've read BS statements like these "muh Russians generals are so courageous they are fighting on the front alongside their soldiers!!!". 

How do you expect supervision and guidance of troops on the ground when their officers are decimated ?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505236026268209163


----------



## Wood

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505198061131374601


I've read rumors that the gold is offered at 20% discount.


----------



## Amliunion

Vergennes said:


> LMAO,you believe western medias only when it suits you



I believe what ABS Military News Telegram Channel said not Western Media i.e. more mercenaries been evaporated.


----------



## Ich

Apollon said:


> How many russians killed so far? Including 5 generals. When was last time a western general was killed in action?



Ha, was there even 1 western general at front in the last 70 years?

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## jhungary

LeGenD said:


> Russian conventional military performance in Ukraine is underwhelming TBH.
> 
> US-led forces overwhelmed Iraq in a span of just 21 days back in 2003, and they are much better armed now.
> 
> Russia has lost more men and material in Ukraine in a span of 20 days than US-led forces lost in Iraq in a span of 20 years.
> 
> There is no comparison.


19 days, I was in Baghdad on the 9th of April. Not 21 days....

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> Lmao. Shifting the Goal Post?  How much money & years EU, NATO & US spent in Afghanistan? 2001 Afghanistan was ruled by Taliban, 2022 they are still ruling it.
> 
> This how Russia avenging Fatalities of it's Soldiers:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505203513474752512



Russia planned to make Ukraine its own territory. So you say Russia avenges its fallen soldiers by destroying the very thing they wanted. 

So they have thousands of dead soldiers who won an empty and dead city. 

See how smart we "white boys" are? We make Russia cannibalize itself.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505237404487139331

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505237408173940739


----------



## Apollon

alimobin memon said:


> What a joke. Before war u wouldnt have said that their communications are weak. Thanks to information war your view is that russians are weak in every aspect logistic, communications or weaponry.



Its obvious that Russia is weak. And its amusing to watch their losses. 

Meanwhile EU plans to liquidate the frozem russian assets.









EU Officials Mull Using Sanctioned Russians’ Assets for Ukraine


European Union officials are discussing the possibility of using the assets of sanctioned Russian tycoons to help fund Ukraine’s war recovery efforts, according to three people familiar with the matter.




www.bloomberg.com


----------



## SuvarnaTeja

Apollon said:


> China should stay by its principle to not mingle into other affairs. Europe is none of chinas business



Ukraine is none of NATO's Business but NATO seems to keep funding, aiding and fighting the war.

Hypocrisy much?

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## jhungary

Foinikas said:


> Do Western generals ride with their soldiers the last 40 years?


I actually rode with Tommy Frank on Thunder Run. Well, granted, he wasn't "IN" Baghdad International like the rest of us, but he was pretty close....

That's him in Baghdad on the April 2003 (we just took Baghdad) inspecting a Saddam Palace


----------



## Apollon

SuvarnaTeja said:


> Ukraine is none of NATO's Business but NATO seems to keep funding, aiding and fighting the war.
> 
> Hypocrisy much?



Ukraine is Europe and we plan to make it russias tomb.


----------



## SuvarnaTeja

Apollon said:


> Ukraine is Europe and we plan to make it russias tomb.



US is not Europe.

Ukraine is not NATO

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## alimobin memon

Vergennes said:


> I've read BS statements like these "muh Russians generals are so courageous they are fighting on the front alongside their soldiers!!!".
> 
> How do you expect supervision and guidance of troops on the ground when their officers are decimated ?


Listen man be reasonable. The Ukrainian claim of losses of equipment of Russia and 5 generals is too far fetched. In reality if that had happened armies morale would have been so low that Russian army would have retreated. This whole operation is a Russian ruse this is not how they normally fight. Check their previous war exercises after year 2000. 

This is how they fought early in ww2 and had tremendous losses when Germany was inside Russia. But they are actually expendable and have always overcome the issues. Remember this reply of mine Putin may die by assassination or whatever but Ukrainians are not fighting well until or unless NATO forces come inside and help Ukrainian which is not possible for now.

It is so obvious if Ukrainians are so well performing USA would have taken advantage of it by giving super advance weaponry. So far its just talks and claims. Even Germany has given 40% of what they actually offered to Ukrainians.

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## Amliunion

Apollon said:


> Russia planned to make Ukraine its own territory. So you say Russia avenges its fallen soldiers by destroying the very thing they wanted.
> 
> So they have thousands of dead soldiers who won an empty and dead city.
> 
> See how smart we "white boys" are? We make Russia cannibalize itself.



Russia will take control of Eastern, South territories & cut Ukrainian access to sea. Further, by turning Ukranian cities into Ashes, it is destroying Ukranian Economy. White Boys don't seem to be smart to me.


----------



## SuvarnaTeja

gambit said:


> US who were self restrained due to humanitarian concerns.



LOL

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505240517650501635


----------



## Apollon

SuvarnaTeja said:


> US is not Europe.
> 
> Ukraine is not NATO



This is our European war. And as i said, we would rather likt to see Russia dead.

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## Ich

jhungary said:


> I actually rode with Tommy Frank on Thunder Run. Well, granted, he wasn't "IN" Baghdad International like the rest of us, but he was pretty close....
> 
> That's him in Baghdad on the April 2003 (we just took Baghdad) inspecting a Saddam Palace
> 
> View attachment 825567



After taking, how long was his flight there to make this photo?


----------



## SuvarnaTeja

Apollon said:


> This is our European war. And as i said, we would rather likt to see Russia dead.



US is not Europe.

Russia is Europe.

I support Europeans sorting it out.

Let non Europeans like US and China be kept out.

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## jhungary

Ich said:


> After taking, how long was his flight there to make this photo?


I didn't take this photo, the spec on this photo is on April 10, which mean possibly immediately after we took Baghdad.

You can still see the ruin of the palace on the floor.

As I said, he was with us when we went to Baghdad. He was possible 5 miles away the front in his Humvee.


----------



## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> Russia will take control of Eastern, South territories & cut Ukrainian access to sea. Further, by turning Ukranian cities into Ashes, it is destroying Ukranian Economy. White Boys don't seem to be smart to me.



Yes they will take controle over dead land and ash. 

Russias economy is collapsed. Russia is cut of from Europe. At same time we kill evry minute dozens of russian sodliers with our weapons and for what? They conquer dead land, complete wasteland. Dead cities that they have t rebuild but have no money to do so. 

At same time it costs us nothing. Putin did run into a trap. Its their ancient homelands they destroy, not ours.


----------



## zzzz

Apollon said:


> Its obvious that Russia is weak. And its amusing to watch their losses.
> 
> Meanwhile EU plans to liquidate the frozem russian assets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU Officials Mull Using Sanctioned Russians’ Assets for Ukraine
> 
> 
> European Union officials are discussing the possibility of using the assets of sanctioned Russian tycoons to help fund Ukraine’s war recovery efforts, according to three people familiar with the matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bloomberg.com



Russian losses are very big in delusional Ukrainian reality you are living in.

5 Generals, 2000 tanks. 30 fighter jets shot down just by Ghost Of Kiev single handedly 

But nonetheless i suggest you to start saving up for food and fuel. There could be some serious shortages in EU later this year

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## Wood

Apollon said:


> This is our European war. And as i said, we would rather likt to see Russia dead.


I wonder if Europe can keep this posture in the long run. Human nature is such that the convictions we hold are often fleeting. This is especially so in countries run by democratic set up. The next administration that gets elected could adapt to new realities and make decisions that suit its conveniences at that time. Let's see what happens in the next decade. Putin is likely to be around for a while.


----------



## Apollon

zzzz said:


> Russian losses are very big in delusional Ukrainian reality you are living in.
> 
> 5 Generals, 2000 tanks. 30 fighter jets shot down just by Ghost Of Kiev single handedly
> 
> But nonetheless i suggest you to start saving up for food and fuel. There could be some serious shortages in EU later this year




Im rich buddy. My parents have enough money that i can not be bothered even when gas is 10€ per litre.

That aside i like how you are forced to destroy what apparantly matters so much for you. 

You lose so much and conquer only dead land and ash. 

This is bigger than Ukraine, we cleans Europe from any russian presence. Banks here even froze accounts of small russians living in Europe. They dont even get welfare anymore.

Russians business, culture, economy and sports are destroyed here. Completly annihilated. 

They even smash russian art here i museums or block russian art that was lend to museums here. In Paris they confiscated an entire russian art collection. 

Russian history in Europe ends here.

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## Ich

jhungary said:


> I didn't take this photo, the spec on this photo is on April 10, which mean possibly immediately after we took Baghdad.
> 
> You can still see the ruin of the palace on the floor.
> 
> As I said, he was with us when we went to Baghdad. He was possible 5 miles away the front in his Humvee.



Well, 5 miles is to far for a sharpshoter.


----------



## zzzz

Apollon said:


> Ukraine is Europe and we plan to make it russias tomb.



You need to plan how to beg Russia for food.

After taking control of Ukrainian sea shore Russia would control 50% of world exports of wheat, 30% of corn and 80% of sunflower oil.

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## Microsoft

jhungary said:


> Ukraine aren't an insurgence..........Yet
> 
> It took us 38 days to invade and capture the entire Iraq (similar size than Ukraine) and it took us 14 days to capture the entire Afghanistan. So yes, Russian initial invasion is slow at this point seeing in Iraq, we had already captured Najaf, Basra and Baghdad on day 24 already. None of the big city in Ukraine fall.



Ya technically Georgia isn't an insurgence...YET.
Also, Crimea isn't an insurgence...YET!
But wait...Donbas isn't an insurgence...o wait!

14 days to invade and capture and 20 years to replace with the same people but those 14 days were contained in the 20 years.

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## Apollon

Russian students get expulled and deported from Europe:









Russia-Ukraine war: Russian students face expulsion and deportation threats


Russian students studying abroad are facing expulsion and deportation threats amid the Russia-Ukraine war.




www.studyinternational.com





I support this 100%. No need to feed them here. Send them to their Putin.

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## jhungary

Ich said:


> Well, 5 miles is to far for a sharpshoter.


Not far for motor and artillery.


----------



## jhungary

Microsoft said:


> Ya technically Georgia isn't an insurgence...YET.
> Also, Crimea isn't an insurgence...YET!
> But wait...Donbas isn't an insurgence...o wait!
> 
> 38 days to invade and capture and 20 years to replace with the same people but those 38 days were contained in the 20 years.


You are talking about an "Insurgency" in Iraq and an ongoing invasion (which they have not completed) in Ukraine.

We completed the entire invasion in 39 days, beginning on March 20 and ending on may 1. Then we have 11 years of insurgence in Iraq

Russia have not been able to complete the invasion in 25 days. And come talk to me after the insurgency end to compare about the insurgency in Iraq.

And Donbas Insurgency is still 8 years and we are not talking about just Donbas, as if the rest of Ukraine is not being invaded.

And there are NO INSURGENCY in both Crimea and Goergia, can you show me proof that there are insurgent activities in both area? If no, then it is not "Yet" but it was NEVER.


----------



## zzzz

Apollon said:


> Russian students get expulled and deported from Europe:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine war: Russian students face expulsion and deportation threats
> 
> 
> Russian students studying abroad are facing expulsion and deportation threats amid the Russia-Ukraine war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.studyinternational.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I support this 100%. No need to feed them here. Send them to their Putin.



Thats good. Continue this way. We dont need educated specialists to be lured out of Russia by West


----------



## Apollon

zzzz said:


> You need to plan how to beg Russia for food.
> 
> After taking control of Ukrainian sea shore Russia would control 50% of world exports of wheat, 30% of corn and 80% of sunflower oil.



So far Russia controls nothing. 

When will your counter sanctions coming buddy? Its week three and we treated Russia like shit. All we hear is that Russia plans counter sanctions but...nope nothing.

We sanction the shit out of russia and our weapons kill thousands of russians and yet...nothing. No response. What must we do that you finally respond? Blow up Moscow?


----------



## Wood

Apollon said:


> Russian students get expulled and deported from Europe:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine war: Russian students face expulsion and deportation threats
> 
> 
> Russian students studying abroad are facing expulsion and deportation threats amid the Russia-Ukraine war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.studyinternational.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I support this 100%. No need to feed them here. Send them to their Putin.


This is persecution of people who have no control over Putin. Terrible.

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## Microsoft

jhungary said:


> You are talking about an "Insurgency" in Iraq and an ongoing invasion (which they have not completed) in Ukraine.
> 
> We completed the entire invasion in 39 days, beginning on March 20 and ending on may 1. Then we have 11 years of insurgence in Iraq
> 
> Russia have not been able to complete the invasion in 25 days. And come talk to me after the insurgency end to compare about the insurgency in Iraq.
> 
> And Donbas Insurgency is still 8 years and we are not talking about just Donbas, as if the rest of Ukraine is not being invaded.
> 
> And there are NO INSURGENCY in both Crimea and Goergia, can you show me proof that there are insurgent activities in both area? If no, then it is not "Yet" but it was NEVER.



That was a typo I meant 14 days - as per your post. I'm only talking about Afghanistan. 

There is no insurgency in Crimea, Georgia so how do you know what will happen in the rest of the Ukraine? Even more basic than that it's your hypothesis there will be an insurgency. Which means you've accepted their downfall.

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## Vergennes

alimobin memon said:


> Listen man be reasonable. The Ukrainian claim of losses of equipment of Russia and 5 generals is too far fetched. In reality if that had happened armies morale would have been so low that Russian army would have retreated. This whole operation is a Russian ruse this is not how they normally fight. Check their previous war exercises after year 2000.
> 
> This is how they fought early in ww2 and had tremendous losses when Germany was inside Russia. But they are actually expendable and have always overcome the issues. Remember this reply of mine Putin may die by assassination or whatever but Ukrainians are not fighting well until or unless NATO forces come inside and help Ukrainian which is not possible for now.
> 
> It is so obvious if Ukrainians are so well performing USA would have taken advantage of it by giving super advance weaponry. So far its just talks and claims. Even Germany has given 40% of what they actually offered to Ukrainians.



"Ruse",lmao.

No combined arms cooperation,severe lack of communications (and use of non securized communications) between different russian services and units,poor battle management,poor logistics,use of a great number of poorly equipped and trained conscripts.... that's no ruse that's just blatant incompetence. You are talking as if Russia's economy and current demographics could sustain a long and prolonged attrition war.... Russia doesn't enjoy the same "mass" as the Soviet Union.

The Russians built an image about their armed forces,a myth that's being destroyed just in front of us,of course those who swallowed their BS would try to find excuses about why they are performing so poorly in Ukraine.

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## jhungary

Microsoft said:


> That was a typo I meant 14 days - as per your post. I'm only talking about Afghanistan.
> 
> There is no insurgency in Crimea, Georgia so how do you know what will happen in the rest of the Ukraine? Even more basic than that it's your hypothesis there will be an insurgency. Which means you've accepted their downfall.


AS I said, come back to me after Russia Completed the invasion. Then we can talk about how long or short or if any insurgency compare to Afghanistan.

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## SuvarnaTeja

Viet said:


> How is Putin war going on? No victory parade in Odessa or Kiev yet?



You should never make the decision of supporting because one is winning or losing.

You should support it because it was legitimate.

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## Ich

jhungary said:


> Not far for motor and artillery.


What artillerie? You try to say that there were still iraki artillery in range while he was 5 miles away?


----------



## zzzz

Apollon said:


> So far Russia controls nothing.
> 
> When will your counter sanctions coming buddy? Its week three and we treated Russia like shit. All we hear is that Russia plans counter sanctions but...nope nothing.
> 
> We sanction the shit out of russia and our weapons kill thousands of russians and yet...nothing. No response. What must we do that you finally respond? Blow up Moscow?



You sanctioned the shit out of yourself. Your food prices went up 2 times. Shortages all over EU. Fuel prices 2 times. Gas prices 10 times. Electricity prices 10 times. Industry going bankrupt and close down all over EU. Want more? You will get more, dont worry. Wait and see.

Your weapons are joke and meaningless. They dont kill anyone. 99% of Russian losses from Soviet era artillery.
BTW did you see the news about 200 faggots from NATO countries many of them veterans got roasted near Lvov a week ago?

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## Apollon

Wood said:


> This is persecution of people who have no control over Putin. Terrible.




I dont see it that way. They are spies and at best parasites here. Why feed the enemy?

Its same in sports. I would never compete with a russian and simply leave stage. Thats main reason why russians are expulled from basicly all sports in europe. You cant force athletes to compete with enemies.


----------



## jhungary

Ich said:


> What artillerie? You try to say that there were still iraki artillery in range while he was 5 miles away?


You do know they still have T-72 and D-30 or some artillery like that when we invaded back in 2003, right?

I just look it up, they had M115 when we were there.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505206987587522565

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

zzzz said:


> You sanctioned the shit out of yourself. Your food prices went up 2 times. Shortages all over EU. Fuel prices 2 times. Gas prices 10 times. Electricity prices 10 times. Industry going bankrupt and close down all over EU. Want more? You will get more, dont worry. Wait and see.
> 
> Your weapons are joke and meaningless. They dont kill anyone. 99% of Russian loses from Soviet era artillery.
> BTW did you see the news about 200 faggots from NATO countries many of them veterans got roasted near Lvov a week ago?




There are no shortages in anything. Fuel prices are back to normal.

Electricity prices are fixed. We pay 140€ per month and the contract stands at it is.

And nope, most of your losses are because Stingers and MANPADS.

Can you explain whats this?


----------



## Viet

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505240517650501635


Not a problem at all, nothing comparable to people at war in Ukraine.
People here can wear more clothes to keep warm.
Like me
I live in Germany. Saving energy saving gas wherever possible.


----------



## FuturePAF

jhungary said:


> That wouldn't do much good for the Russian tho.
> 
> You need people that know what they are doing, attacking a city like that is not something you can do out of the bat, i mean from some general entry, you are gonna get kill pretty quick and just be a cannon fodder.
> 
> They need people who are trained to capture a city, they had time to train or drill this batch that they send, anything else will have to come in after a few months of drill.
> 
> Otherwise, they are no good.


Any indication they have people training in Russia for taking cities? Where does Russia train soldiers for large scale CQB?


----------



## oberschlesier

zzzz said:


> You sanctioned the shit out of yourself. Your food prices went up 2 times. Shortages all over EU. Fuel prices 2 times. Gas prices 10 times. Electricity prices 10 times. Industry going bankrupt and close down all over EU. Want more? You will get more, dont worry. Wait and see.
> 
> Your weapons are joke and meaningless. They dont kill anyone. 99% of Russian losses from Soviet era artillery.
> BTW did you see the news about 200 faggots from NATO countries many of them veterans got roasted near Lvov a week ago?


Sactions are a double edged sword.
Fuel prices increased by 30%, Gas ~ 60%, but are droping now, as the shock is over. Don`t worry about the EU, the economic impact wil be a slow down in growth. For Russia the sactions mean a full crisis.

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## Apollon

Viet said:


> Not a problem at all
> People can wear more clothes to keep warm.
> Like me
> I live in Germany. Saving energy saving gas wherever possible.




I actually see the weak leadeship here as big problem. We are at war and someone should tell Habeck to shut his mouth and do his duty.



oberschlesier said:


> Sactions are a double edged sword.
> Fuel prices increased by 30%, Gas ~ 60%, but are droping now, as the shock is over. Don`t worry about the EU, the economic impact wil be a slow down in growth. For Russia the sactions mean a full crisis.




Thats what russians like @zzzz dont see. Their business assets got completly wiped out. 100% loss.

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## Foinikas

jhungary said:


> I actually rode with Tommy Frank on Thunder Run. Well, granted, he wasn't "IN" Baghdad International like the rest of us, but he was pretty close....
> 
> That's him in Baghdad on the April 2003 (we just took Baghdad) inspecting a Saddam Palace
> 
> View attachment 825567


I gotta ask. What's with the "hungary" nickname?


----------



## zzzz

Apollon said:


> There are no shortages in anything. Fuel prices are back to normal.
> 
> Electricity prices are fixed. We pay 140€ per month and the contract stands at it is.
> 
> And nope, most of your losses are because Stingers and MANPADS.
> 
> Can you explain whats this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fat women at 1:01 appears rather sad. What happened?



Idiot. There are no more than couple of helicopters and couple of jets shot down by Stingers. And in most cases pilots get away alive.
Manpads are useless during night and against supersonic jets. Helicopters can easily fly even during daytime by implementing special tactic.

It doesnt matter how much you pay. What is matter is closing down industry all over EU and rampant inflation. The effect of this you will see in near future.

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## dBSPL

Pimp my truck, Russian edition (not a bad idea by the way)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504915540380372993

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## jhungary

Foinikas said:


> I gotta ask. What's with the "hungary" nickname?


my name is Gary. JHUN is the random letter next to each other on the keyboard.

Can't get my username with the name Gary alone so I added 4 random letter in front......



FuturePAF said:


> Any indication they have people training in Russia for taking cities? Where does Russia train soldiers for large scale CQB?


Think they were trained during the "exercise" during where the Russian said they were not invading. There are urban compound with one of those exercise.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505247343595204616nice one

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Apollon said:


> I actually see the weak leadeship here as big problem. We are at war and someone should tell Habeck to shut his mouth and do his duty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats what russians like @zzzz dont see. Their business assets got completly wiped out. 100% loss.


Habeck looks for gas elsewhere that’s his job. Today he lands in Katar at the oil sheiks. I think it’s ok. We will pay a premium to get rid from Putin blackmail.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505162200079495181

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## Apollon

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505162200079495181



Wait a minute...Armenia is still a thing? I thought it became Azerbaijan last year?

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## zzzz

Apollon said:


> Thats what russians like @zzzz dont see. Their business assets got completly wiped out. 100% loss.



The assets of Western shareholders from EU and US got wiped out. Russia has frozen shares of Russian companies owned by EU and US citizens for value of $250 billion. And $40 billion of annual dividend payments.

Is this what makes you so happy?


----------



## Apollon

zzzz said:


> The assets of Western shareholders from EU and US got wiped out. Russia has frozen shares of Russian companies owned by EU and US citizens for value of $250 billion. And $40 billion of annual dividend payments.
> 
> Is this what makes you so happy?



We took 380 billion central bank asssts. That alone makes us 90 billion in the profit zone.

It appears Putin did not expect the EU to do that. And its just the central bank assets we took, the oligarch assets are another 150 billion.


----------



## tower9

Apollon said:


> Im rich buddy. My parents have enough money that i can not be bothered even when gas is 10€ per litre.
> 
> That aside i like how you are forced to destroy what apparantly matters so much for you.
> 
> You lose so much and conquer only dead land and ash.
> 
> This is bigger than Ukraine, we cleans Europe from any russian presence. Banks here even froze accounts of small russians living in Europe. They dont even get welfare anymore.
> 
> Russians business, culture, economy and sports are destroyed here. Completly annihilated.
> 
> They even smash russian art here i museums or block russian art that was lend to museums here. In Paris they confiscated an entire russian art collection.
> 
> Russian history in Europe ends here.


You might be rich but the average Greek certainly isn’t. Energy and food costs will shoot through the roof and life will be unbearable for the average Greek and most Europeans. Of course your selfish privileged *** will just complain they aren’t pulling themselves up by their bootstraps while you keep on foaming at the mouth for war with a silver spoon sticking out.



oberschlesier said:


> Sactions are a double edged sword.
> Fuel prices increased by 30%, Gas ~ 60%, but are droping now, as the shock is over. Don`t worry about the EU, the economic impact wil be a slow down in growth. For Russia the sactions mean a full crisis.


No, this is just beginning. If you think the shock is over, that is a fool’s errand. The shock hasn’t even come yet.

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## oberschlesier

zzzz said:


> It doesnt matter how much you pay. What is matter is closing down industry all over EU and rampant inflation. The effect of this you will see in near future.


Don`t be so dramatic, we have a loooooot of money  Inflation +2% and slowdown of growth. Russia is only 4% of EU trade. The Situtation for Russia looks a bit worse: https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5260572
Unfortunately this will have a big impact of 3rd world countries, as the food prices will increase. More people will die in Africa, than in the Ukraine.


----------



## Ich

jhungary said:


> You do know they still have T-72 and D-30 or some artillery like that when we invaded back in 2003, right?
> 
> I just look it up, they had M115 when we were there.



So you try to say that after taking Bagdad there where still iraki T72s and iraki artillery there? Within range? Not taken out by A10 or Apache? What was the reason?


----------



## UKBengali

Apollon said:


> I dont care about Syria, Iran, Afghanistan. Not my people, not my problem.
> 
> You know Russians say Ukraine is their birthplace? Lets make sure its also their tomb.
> 
> Thats what Europe cares for and quite sucessfull.




Dude, you should care for your own and Europe’s self interest.

The world is now in a transition phase as China rises to become multi-polar as China becomes the 2nd superpower alongside USA.

Remember Ukraine is being helped massively by Turkish supplied drones and they are a mainly “brown” country.

Unless you are 60 or above you will probably live to see when a non-white country China is the most powerful on earth.


----------



## Apollon

tower9 said:


> You might be rich but the average Greek certainly isn’t. Energy and food costs will shoot through the roof and life will be unbearable for the average Greek and most Europeans. Of course your selfish privileged *** will just complain they aren’t pulling themselves up by their bootstraps while you keep on foaming at the mouth for war with a silver spoon sticking out.
> 
> 
> No, this is just beginning. If you think the shock is over, that is a fool’s errand. The shock hasn’t even come yet.



I see no shock so far. Most rises were compensated by the state. In Germany they pay the rise in fuel prices. And now prices even start to fall.


----------



## dBSPL

Medicines sent by Greece to Ukraine are said to be expired, so medical waste. @Foinikas @Apollon bros,

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505122150163927041

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## oberschlesier

tower9 said:


> You might be rich but the average Greek certainly isn’t. Energy and food costs will shoot through the roof and life will be unbearable for the average Greek and most Europeans. Of course your selfish privileged *** will just complain they aren’t pulling themselves up by their bootstraps while you keep on foaming at the mouth for war with a silver spoon sticking out.
> 
> 
> No, this is just beginning. If you think the shock is over, that is a fool’s errand. The shock hasn’t even come yet.


Don`t worry so such about the EU, on the contrary this will be big catalist for the green transformation.

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## Apollon

UKBengali said:


> Dude, you should care for your own and Europe’s self interest.
> 
> The world is now in a transition phase as China rises to become multi-polar as China becomes the 2nd superpower alongside USA.
> 
> Remember Ukraine is being helped massively by Turkish supplied drones and they are a mainly “brown” country.
> 
> Unless you are 60 or above you will probably live to see when a non-white country China is the most powerful on earth.



We do just that, a facist putin regime threatening Europe is in no way our interest. I guess we agree on that.


----------



## zzzz

Apollon said:


> We took 380 billion central bank asssts. That alone makes us 90 billion in the profit zone.
> 
> It appears Putin did not expect the EU to do that. And its just the central bank assets we took, the oligarch assets are another 150 billion.



You took less than $300 billion. And few cents of oligarch assets. What $150 billion? You are delusional 

Russia also frozen $400 billion of external debt to EU and US creditors and $30 billion interest payment for this debt.

So do your math. Russia has frozen $650 billion of assets and about $100 billion of annual dividend and interest payments.

You have frozen less than $300 billion.

BTW Russia is also going to seize assets of Western companies who are leaving Russia. That is additional hundreds of billion of $.

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## jhungary

Ich said:


> So you try to say that after taking Bagdad there where still iraki T72s and iraki artillery there? Within range? Not taken out by A10 or Apache? What was the reason?



You do know there is a very old picture where soldier inspecting a T-72 in Saddam International that has been circulated for a long time, I will see can I find that picture for you.

Those tank were abandoned when we roll in.

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## Apollon

dBSPL said:


> Medicines sent by Greece to Ukraine are said to be expired, so medical waste. @Foinikas @Apollon bros,
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505122150163927041



Looks like russian propaganda for me. Why would we send expired medicine? Thats outright retarded.


----------



## kingQamaR

zzzz said:


> Russian losses are very big in delusional Ukrainian reality you are living in.
> 
> 5 Generals, 2000 tanks. 30 fighter jets shot down just by Ghost Of Kiev single handedly
> 
> But nonetheless i suggest you to start saving up for food and fuel. There could be some serious shortages in EU later this year



Do the silly Russian trolls who come to this website think they. are achieving anything except giving everyone a laugh? While they type ludicrous drivel, their compatriots are burning alive in flimsy tanks. Russia humiliation is of there own doing

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## dBSPL

Apollon said:


> Wait a minute...Armenia is still a thing? I thought it became Azerbaijan last year?


It simply withdrew from the lands it occupied. They also cut the bill not to Russia but to states like France to a large extent.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505222037715005441

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## Apollon

zzzz said:


> You took less than $300 billion. And few cents of oligarch assets. What $150 billion? You are delusional
> 
> Russia also frozen $400 billion of external debt to EU and US creditors and $30 billion interest payment for this debt.
> 
> So do your math. Russia has frozen $650 billion of assets and about $100 billion of annual dividend and interest payments.
> 
> You have frozen less than $300 billion.



Is that what the pancake face in the kremlin says comrade? If thats the case why is he so much foaming about the "european blitzkrieg against russian economy". I read RIA Novosti via translator and their foaming amd hate against europe shows our sanctions work. 

You also forget one thing, we are rich ,you are dirt poor.


----------



## Foinikas

dBSPL said:


> Medicines sent by Greece to Ukraine are said to be expired, so medical waste. @Foinikas @Apollon bros,
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505122150163927041


Don't get me started on the idiotic policies of our government when it comes to helping Ukraine. 

They decided to help Ukraine militarily without asking the rest of the political parties. A lot of people want us to be neutral to this. But they decided to send weapons to Ukraine too. And what did they send? Consficated AKs. 

In a country where the only thing that is not missing,are the small weapons and especially the Kalashnikovs,they sent AKs. 

And now this...

At least back in the '90s we sent good aid to the Serbs and everyone united as one people.

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## tower9

Apollon said:


> I see no shock so far. Most rises were compensated by the state. In Germany they pay the rise in fuel prices. And now prices even start to fall.


Lol you don’t understand how economics and supply chains work do you? We are just starting to feel the impact from Trump’s trade wars here. Wait a year or two buddy.

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## Viet

zzzz said:


> The assets of Western shareholders from EU and US got wiped out. Russia has frozen shares of Russian companies owned by EU and US citizens for value of $250 billion. And $40 billion of annual dividend payments.
> 
> Is this what makes you so happy?


$40b dividend? Impossible.

Russia average monthly income is 35k ruble, or about 400 euros last year, now thanks Putin, less than 300 euros.

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## Apollon

tower9 said:


> Lol you don’t understand how economics and supply chains work do you? We are just starting to feel the impact from Trump’s trade wars here. Wait a year or two buddy.




War costs money. Thats normal. You cant crush the enemy without cost. Im willing to pay that. In April i fly Egypt and in November Argentina Antarctice cruise. Its already paid. So if prices rise next year only effect would be i do only one vacation Ecuador and skip Australia. I dont consider this a big shock. Its simply adjusting a bit.

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## Viet

__





Durchschnittslohn in Russland liegt bei 35.000 Rubel – russland.CAPITAL







www.russland.capital


----------



## tower9

Apollon said:


> War costs money. Thats normal. You cant crush the enemy without cost. Im willing to pay that. In April i fly Egypt and in November Argentina Antarctice cruise. Its already paid. So if prices rise next year only effect would be i do only one vacation Ecuador and skip Australia. I dont consider this a big shock. Its simply adjusting a bit.


You grew up rich on your parents money, of course you’re willing to pay that. Lmao


----------



## Ich

jhungary said:


> You do know there is a very old picture where soldier inspecting a T-72 in Saddam International that has been circulated for a long time, I will see can I find that picture for you.
> 
> Those tank were abandoned when we roll in.



Ah, yes, i remember, the one in the garage.


----------



## jhungary

tower9 said:


> Lol you don’t understand how economics and supply chains work do you? We are just starting to feel the impact from Trump’s trade wars here. Wait a year or two buddy.


It is widely believe the current suply chain issue is due to COVID restriction world wide. This isn't anything about Trump trade war.

I tried to get a bunch of stuff in China, the getting them part have no problem, the post office, however, is a problem.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505226018420064257

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## tower9

jhungary said:


> It is widely believe the current suply chain issue is due to COVID restriction world wide. This isn't anything about Trump trade war.
> 
> I tried to get a bunch of stuff in China, the getting them part have no problem, the post office, however, is a problem.


It is a combination of both. Trump’s trade wars initiated the rise of inflation which was compounded by Covid. We are just starting to see extreme inflation due to these causes which demonstrates how long it takes to move through the supply chain.

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## zzzz

Viet said:


> $40b dividend? Impossible.
> 
> Russia average monthly income is 35k ruble, or about 400 euros last year, now thanks Putin, less than 300 euros.


Possible, dude. Possible. 

Average income includes pensioners, students and welfare earners.

Russian average wage is 60k rubles.
Moscow average wage is 140k rubles.
PPP to nominal ratio for Russia is currently 4.
That means average Moscow citizen earns $6k per month equivalent for US wage with free healthcare.

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## jhungary

tower9 said:


> It is a combination of both. Trump’s trade wars initiated the rise of inflation which was compounded by Covid. We are just starting to see extreme inflation due to these causes which demonstrates how long it takes to move through the supply chain.


Trump trade war did not impact most item, and for those item that are affected more or less it impacted the price.

As I said, I get no problem getting Chinese stuff all the way here in Australia, Finding a ship or a plane that can bring it to Australia is a giant butthole issue.

Inflation is because we all try to buy stuff post COVID and stuff is not coming for the aforementioned issue.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505258165025263618

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505260467069071367

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## dBSPL

One of my favorite russian artiellery(mlrs) systems, Tos-1A

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505256167009832961
Slovakia is about to make one of the dumbest moves

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505111366620925953

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505254263726948352

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic












Russians don't even bother to recover their deads.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505264275736117249


----------



## bobo6661

zzzz said:


> ossible, dude. Possible.
> 
> Average income includes pensioners, students and welfare earners.
> 
> Russian average wage is 60k rubles.
> Moscow average wage is 140k rubles.
> PPP to nominal ratio for Russia is currently 4.
> That means average Moscow citizen earns $6k per month equivalent for US wage with free healthcare.


Maybeeeee before war





Imagin thinking your earning 6k $

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## dBSPL

Due to the occupation of Ukraine, sunflower oil sales start to restricted in Belgium and the Netherlands.

The situation in Ukraine and Russia, known as "Europe's breadbasket", causes an increase in the prices many of foodstuffs, especially flour and sunflower oil. Most of Europe's wheat and sunflower oil needs are met by Ukraine and Russia.

Some major supermarket chains in Belgium, including Colruyt and Lidl, have restricted the sale of sunflower oil, flour and canned vegetables. Lidl and Colruytgroup allow a maximum of 2 bottles of oil and 2 packets of flour per customer.

In the Netherlands, there is a shortage of sunflower oil in the near future. Supermarkets are start to limit the number of sunflower oil bottles that can be purchased per customer. Supermarket chains such as Plus and Jumbo limited cooking oil sales to 1 bottle per customer. Two-thirds of the sunflower oil imported by the Netherlands comes from Ukraine.

Şükrü Temiz, owner of the Turkish-based supermarket chain Temiz, tells Dutch media, "I'm afraid we will soon have to sell sunflower oil for 5 euros per liter. The costs have increased a lot." The price of 1 liter of sunflower oil in supermarkets in the Netherlands currently ranges from 1.8 to 2 euros. Prices were in the 1.2-1.4 range during the summer months.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505246851695583233

Another Russian convoy destroyed

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## mmr

zzzz said:


> You took less than $300 billion. And few cents of oligarch assets. What $150 billion? You are delusional
> 
> Russia also frozen $400 billion of external debt to EU and US creditors and $30 billion interest payment for this debt.
> 
> So do your math. Russia has frozen $650 billion of assets and about $100 billion of annual dividend and interest payments.
> 
> You have frozen less than $300 billion.
> 
> BTW Russia is also going to seize assets of Western companies who are leaving Russia. That is additional hundreds of billion of $.











UK announces major list of 370 new sanctions against Russia over Ukraine


Downing Street claimed the mammoth announcement more than doubles the number of Russian individuals sanctioned by Britain over the Ukraine-Russia war - as it effectively mimics action by the EU




www.mirror.co.uk





Uk alone seize over 100 billion pound. why russians invest so much in uk lol.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505258219593244675

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## bobo6661

Wheat in Ukraine | OEC


Find the latest exports, imports and tariffs for Wheat trade in Ukraine.




oec.world











Now look its not europe that will have a problem





sunflower could ba a problem but we mostly use canola oil


----------



## Viet

zzzz said:


> Possible, dude. Possible.
> 
> Average income includes pensioners, students and welfare earners.
> 
> Russian average wage is 60k rubles.
> Moscow average wage is 140k rubles.
> PPP to nominal ratio for Russia is currently 4.
> That means average Moscow citizen earns $6k per month equivalent for US wage with free healthcare.


What does that mean ppp to nominal ratio?


----------



## Titanium100

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505254263726948352



True words.. Because any soldier expecting to return is not worth it in all honesty


----------



## Apollon

bobo6661 said:


> Wheat in Ukraine | OEC
> 
> 
> Find the latest exports, imports and tariffs for Wheat trade in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oec.world
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 825598
> 
> 
> Now look its not europe that will have a problem
> 
> View attachment 825600
> 
> sunflower could ba a problem but we mostly use canola oil



Yes, Europe produces most of its wheat itself. Russia exports most to Africa and Middle East. There will be the problem. Europe is self sufficient


----------



## zzzz

Viet said:


> What does that mean ppp to nominal ratio?



That means average difference of cost in US dollars of goods and services produced locally compared with the price of the same goods or services in US.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505272134159015940


----------



## The SC



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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Zala drone footage


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505272714268975108


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505258219593244675



This forces Russia to use more Islankder, Kh-101, Khizhal to force Ukraine to surrender without crossing border. This causes more civilian casualties.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505275980683825163
Whose a good boy?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

TOS-1A artillery shooting.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505264963350368256
Lancet drone attacking ground targets.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505267313762779146


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

dBSPL said:


> The name of Soviet cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin, who was the first person in space, was removed at the International Space Symposium held in Colorado, USA, on the grounds of Russia's attacks on Ukraine.


The first man in space: "____________________________, from _____________________"

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russia backed separatists AKA Russian bums who go to Ukraine to take land and women T-64BV tank in action.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505267576213024777

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## FairAndUnbiased

Tom_Cruise said:


> NATO is pumping weapons into Ukraine, that's all it needs to do. And its working. Russia is bleeding dry and becoming an international laughing stock.
> 
> Why doesn't Russia have the guts to attack NATO for supplying weapons to Ukraine? What is Russia waiting for?


US never attacked China for supplying Vietnam and in Vietnam US had 3000+ planes shot down. In fact during the height of the Vietnam war in 1972 Nixon went hat in hand to Beijing.

It's funny, Ukraine is 1/4 the size of Russia by population, 1/8 by GDP. It is putting up a good fight like Imperial Japan did against the US. They're doomed to a slow loss by war of attrition since their heavy weapons and most of all, oil, isn't being replenished, just like Imperial Japan was, but they're doing OK.

But Vietnam? lol they were what, 1/10th US population, 1/50th by GDP? yet US lost 3000+ planes, 5000+ helicopters. Then tanks rolled into Saigon and it was all over.

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## Ali_Baba

Bickering spooks at war over disastrous Ukraine invasion​








Russia's agencies bicker over blame for disastrous Ukraine invasion


A blame game has commenced between the FSB and the Russian Ministry of Defense, the two departments of the government responsible for the Ukraine invasion preparations.




www.dailymail.co.uk





*Vladimir Putin reportedly arrests head of the FSB's foreign service ...*


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505234920351932423

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## IblinI

Foinikas said:


> He will tell you that he is just democratic


"We european blah blah", "I cant take poor country seriously".
Lol, what is wrong with your fellow country men apollon.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505232248290820102
Kinzhal missile footage


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505220965667590148

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505279795357261827

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## Rafi

FairAndUnbiased said:


> The first man in space: "____________________________, from _____________________"



I have Ukranian family so have a natural sympathy for them, but this by the Yanks is unbelievably petty, Gargarian's achievements are for Russia for sure, but they are at the same time for the whole of humanity.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505282098332119049

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## Viet

Apollon said:


> Vladi wanted Ukraine incorporated in his empire of dirt. He is in so much financial trouble, he cant care for his own land...by destroying Ukraine he adds ash to dirt.
> 
> Simple thimg...you break it, you own it.
> 
> It will be hard to explain to russians to pay rebuilding of ukraine


Putin wants lands, people, oil, gas, natural resources. A typical behavior of an aggressive imperialist.

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## Foinikas

IblinI said:


> "We european blah blah", "I cant take poor country seriously".
> Lol, what is wrong with your fellow country men apollon.


I don't know,he studies in Germany he said



Viet said:


> Putin wants lands, people, oil, gas, natural resources. A typical behavior of an aggressive imperialist.


No sir. Russia has more than enough land,oil,gas and natural resources. He just wants a pro-Russian Ukraine.


----------



## IblinI

Apollon said:


> There are only 3 great powers.


No, Greece is the fourth.


----------



## Viet

zzzz said:


> That means average difference of cost in US dollars of goods and services produced locally compared with the price of the same goods or services in US.


That’s unrealistic. Impossible.
A Russia worker can never make things 4x cheaper than a US worker.
Can you make a Mercedes in Moscow 4x cheaper than in Chicago?


----------



## gambit

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Xi didn't force the PLA to divest its business enterprises. That event preceded Xi by 20 years even by US sources. So that assertion of yours is factually incorrect.


Sure, my occasional mistake. So the problem is that an American made a minor chronological mistake of Chinese leaders but not about the larger issue of (in)competence at the national leadership level.



FairAndUnbiased said:


> 1991 Iraq had 1/20th the population of the US and 1/50 the GDP. It was always going to be a stomp, only question was by how much.
> 
> 2022 Ukraine has over 1/4 the population of Russia and 1/8 the GDP. Relative to Russia, they're as big as Imperial Japan was compared to the US. Imperial Japan handed US a few defeats but still lost in the end.


Fine. This still does not absolve the Russian military of poor intelligence before invasion. This is a bad way of trying to save face for the Russian military. From the beginning of this war, I have refrained from commenting. I entered this discussion when it was already over 500 pages long. So no one can accuse me of jumping to any conclusion.

From a USAF perspective, the VKS have a shiddy performance over Ukraine. That is my opinion after 3 weeks of war.

The Ukrainian Air Force have about 100 combat jets in *FLYABLE* or *MISSION CAPABLE* condition. Was this factoid made to the VKS leadership? If yes, the fact that the Ukrainian Air Force continues to sortie means what and then what does that finally say about the VKS? My refrain from commenting until the two weeks mark is more than reasonable. It is overly generous given what the world seen with Desert Storm and use as example on how a powerful air force should perform and *PRODUCE*. The VKS failed. Gary is US Army and he pointed out how the Russian Army failed.

The word 'failed' here does not mean Russia cannot conquer Ukraine. It means that the Russian military failed to live up to the image that it cultivated over decades and then when it comes to actually produce results, it failed to produce within the expected time that came with that image of power and competence.



FairAndUnbiased said:


> Chinese leadership thinks completely different than Russian leadership has in the past 30 years. Russia has been in COIN mode since Chechnya, China has always been geared for high intensity total war. Just *looking at the GDP, population and existing force posture of Ukraine, the PLA based on their total war bias, is unlikely to predict a campaign less than a few weeks.*


If that is true, then maybe Xi should fire the entire staff just like Poutine did with his. Maybe we will see that later. As long as the Russian military continues to push, eventually it will capture the requisite strategic targets such as the major cities. But there *WILL* be increasing cost that will repel observers, and in that observers group includes your PLA.

When I was active duty, the USAF have only 60 yrs of aviation history and from limited list of countries to draw upon, whereas the US Army and US Navy have literally thousands of yrs of history spanning continents and cultures. The USAF have a notebook while the US Army and US Navy have a stack of text books. Same situation for the PLA. In that global history, with each war, it is the responsibility of the military's leadership, no matter what country, to study the conditions prior to war and the outcome of that war, then compare against previous wars. The more in-depth the study, the better the analysis for the next war, whenever it might be. I think there is a building call 'military academy' to do this. You might check to see if there is something similar in China. So clearly, the USAF no longer uses WW I and less reliant on WW II. Does the PLA leadership do the same? If not, then in my opinion, Xi should fire the entire staff.

You are making a weak excuse with this 'total war bias' stuff.


----------



## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 825593
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russians don't even bother to recover their deads.











Russia deploys mobile crematoriums to follow its troops into battle


Ben Wallace, the Defence Secretary, suggests the vehicle-mounted incinerators will be used to hide evidence of battlefield casualties




www.telegraph.co.uk

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## dBSPL

Viet said:


> Putin wants lands, people, oil, gas, natural resources. A typical behavior of an aggressive imperialist.


Putin just tried to prevent the outbreak of a world war. But he failed to foresee the trap of getting (UK-US coordinated) Russia into the swamp. Among the global military powers in the world, the only non-globalist leader is Putin. Russia's mistakes, failures are another story, but I see that Putin's complete demonization is just unfair and western-biased point of view.

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## gambit

FairAndUnbiased said:


> But Vietnam? lol they were what, 1/10th US population, 1/50th by GDP? yet US lost 3000+ planes, 5000+ helicopters. Then tanks rolled into Saigon and it was all over.


You really have no idea what you are talking about here.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505290332380012547

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## Tamerlane

Apollon said:


> Im rich buddy. *My parents have enough money* that i can not be bothered even when gas is 10€ per litre.



This post explained everything to me. That's why you sound like a teenager suffering from teen angst. When you're older and wiser you'll realize that when you debate an issue you will convince more people of your point of view if you look at both sides of the issue in a more balanced way. A one-sided and emotionally charged diatribe* will turn people off.

I don't like to pick on individuals, but I've had to read 100s of posts with the same negativity and eventually I had to say something.

*diatribe = a forceful and bitter verbal attack against someone or something.

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## Paul2

Ali_Baba said:


> Bickering spooks at war over disastrous Ukraine invasion​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia's agencies bicker over blame for disastrous Ukraine invasion
> 
> 
> A blame game has commenced between the FSB and the Russian Ministry of Defense, the two departments of the government responsible for the Ukraine invasion preparations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Vladimir Putin reportedly arrests head of the FSB's foreign service ...*



Amusingly, the same, but less dramatic is happening in the West.

In EU, it's because nobody believed US intel intercepts, and their own intel agencies convinced heads of EU states that Russia is bluffing, _and that the US was lying._

In US, it's because they knew it, but CIA, RAND, and few other think tanks managed to completely U-turn the administration against intervening in Ukraine, assuring weak response, and Biden losing both 2022, and 2024.

Brussels, and Washington now spend more time bickering with own intel agencies, than doing anything particular about Ukraine.


----------



## WotTen

Wood said:


> Many people here believe US enticed Putin to start the war and this is all America's fault. The same people will also believe that Biden is weak because he was not able to stop the war



Actually, there is a Republican view that the Cuban Missile Crisis happened because JFK was perceived as weak by the Soviets.


----------



## Wood

WotTen said:


> Actually, there is a Republican view that the Cuban Missile Crisis happened because JFK was perceived as weak by the Soviets.


Perhaps so. But that is not relevant to this.


----------



## WotTen

Paul2 said:


> Biden losing both 2022, and 2024.



Actually, Trump was a favorite to win 2024 BEFORE this war.
Now, any hint of an association with Russia is toxic. Trump is toast.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505292419641786368

The ISW assesses that Ukraine has defeated the initial Russian campaign of this war and the Russian offensive has culminated


----------



## Wood

WotTen said:


> Actually, Trump was a favorite to win 2024 BEFORE this war.
> Now, any hint of an association with Russia is toxic. Trump is toast.


An average Trump voter is similar to an average Modi voter in India. There is nothing that will stop their vote for the beloved leader

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## Flight of falcon

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505292419641786368
> 
> The ISW assesses that Ukraine has defeated the initial Russian campaign of this war and the Russian offensive has culminated



Only pro Ukrainian trolls look at the ever expanding red on the map and claim the Russians are defeated and their advance stalled …


----------



## LeGenD

I have updated my thread:






Repository of journalistic sources and how to use them with Russia - Ukraine War in focus and Fact-checking considerations


Dear members, Some members complain about the issue of reporting bias (and propaganda) in journalistic contents. These complaints were noticed in the following thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/ This thread is created to address the...



defence.pk





Recommended for consultation.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

gambit said:


> You really have no idea what you are talking about here.



US didn't lose those planes? PAVN didn't roll into Saigon?


----------



## Flight of falcon

Ali_Baba said:


> Bickering spooks at war over disastrous Ukraine invasion​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia's agencies bicker over blame for disastrous Ukraine invasion
> 
> 
> A blame game has commenced between the FSB and the Russian Ministry of Defense, the two departments of the government responsible for the Ukraine invasion preparations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Vladimir Putin reportedly arrests head of the FSB's foreign service ...*




Is he the same guy who was first demoted , then suspended then removed then imprisoned then tortured then hanged and finally removed ?????


----------



## jamal18

Gonzalo lira.

This guy is broadcasting from karkov, says Russians are avoiding civilian casualteis.






About 20 minutes in.


----------



## Flight of falcon

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505246851695583233
> 
> Another Russian convoy destroyed




Ok Russians and Ukrainians use same equipment and I have very often noticed hastily hand painted Z on the destroyed equipment . Are Ukrainians passing their destroyed equipment as the Russians ????



dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505247343595204616nice one




Looks totally fake…. They are standing in open the guy is hitting a target less than one km away and they are dancing like clowns with no fear of return fire ….

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## MajesticPug

Ich said:


> Wanne try?



He uses a Hollywood stunt man as his avatar. You know how serious, how bogus he is.


----------



## nufix

Tamerlane said:


> This post explained everything to me. That's why you sound like a teenager suffering from teen angst. When you're older and wiser you'll realize that when you debate an issue you will convince more people of your point of view if you look at both sides of the issue in a more balanced way. A one-sided and emotionally charged diatribe* will turn people off.
> 
> I don't like to pick on individuals, but I've had to read 100s of posts with the same negativity and eventually I had to say something.
> 
> *diatribe = a forceful and bitter verbal attack against someone or something.



He is not rich, his parents are. He has basically nothing of his own, kinda explain his craving for validation.

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## FairAndUnbiased

gambit said:


> Sure, my occasional mistake. So the problem is that an American made a minor chronological mistake of Chinese leaders but not about the larger issue of (in)competence at the national leadership level.
> 
> 
> Fine. This still does not absolve the Russian military of poor intelligence before invasion. This is a bad way of trying to save face for the Russian military. From the beginning of this war, I have refrained from commenting. I entered this discussion when it was already over 500 pages long. So no one can accuse me of jumping to any conclusion.
> 
> From a USAF perspective, the VKS have a shiddy performance over Ukraine. That is my opinion after 3 weeks of war.
> 
> The Ukrainian Air Force have about 100 combat jets in *FLYABLE* or *MISSION CAPABLE* condition. Was this factoid made to the VKS leadership? If yes, the fact that the Ukrainian Air Force continues to sortie means what and then what does that finally say about the VKS? My refrain from commenting until the two weeks mark is more than reasonable. It is overly generous given what the world seen with Desert Storm and use as example on how a powerful air force should perform and *PRODUCE*. The VKS failed. Gary is US Army and he pointed out how the Russian Army failed.
> 
> The word 'failed' here does not mean Russia cannot conquer Ukraine. It means that the Russian military failed to live up to the image that it cultivated over decades and then when it comes to actually produce results, it failed to produce within the expected time that came with that image of power and competence.
> 
> 
> If that is true, then maybe Xi should fire the entire staff just like Poutine did with his. Maybe we will see that later. As long as the Russian military continues to push, eventually it will capture the requisite strategic targets such as the major cities. But there *WILL* be increasing cost that will repel observers, and in that observers group includes your PLA.
> 
> When I was active duty, the USAF have only 60 yrs of aviation history and from limited list of countries to draw upon, whereas the US Army and US Navy have literally thousands of yrs of history spanning continents and cultures. The USAF have a notebook while the US Army and US Navy have a stack of text books. Same situation for the PLA. In that global history, with each war, it is the responsibility of the military's leadership, no matter what country, to study the conditions prior to war and the outcome of that war, then compare against previous wars. The more in-depth the study, the better the analysis for the next war, whenever it might be. I think there is a building call 'military academy' to do this. You might check to see if there is something similar in China. So clearly, the USAF no longer uses WW I and less reliant on WW II. Does the PLA leadership do the same? If not, then in my opinion, Xi should fire the entire staff.
> 
> You are making a weak excuse with this 'total war bias' stuff.



But we come to the same conclusion:

Ukraine is going to lose by attrition and territorial conquest it cannot reverse.

UAF also isn't able to contest Russian aircraft in air to air. They have scored 0 confirmed air to air kills and Russian strike planes continue to bomb their positions as far west as Lviv. All the shootdowns of VKS planes are by MANPADs and SAMs.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505256246781390851

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## CrazyZ

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505256246781390851


What the Soviet gave Ukraine.....Russia can take back.

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## MajesticPug

Flight of falcon said:


> Ok Russians and Ukrainians use same equipment and I have very often noticed hastily hand painted Z on the destroyed equipment . Are Ukrainians passing their destroyed equipment as the Russians ????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks totally fake…. They are standing in open the guy is hitting a target less than one km away and they are dancing like clowns with no fear of return fire ….



I view any sources from the Ukrainian with a grain of salt. They have produced dozens of fake news and fake stories already. God knows there may be hundreds of fake videos and pictures they uploaded to the internet.

To end the conflict quicker, Russia should destroy all the power plants. After all, the West call this a 'war'. In a war, destroying your opponent's communication and power is a must.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504990527770533897Chechens who have spent their lives fighting against Russia.



CrazyZ said:


> What the Soviet gave Ukraine.....Russia can take back.


I don't think 90-95% of the buildings hit were built at Soviet times . If you mean the founding of these cities, you can even find British supports some of them.


----------



## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> I don't know,he studies in Germany he said
> 
> 
> No sir. Russia has more than enough land,oil,gas and natural resources. He just wants a pro-Russian Ukraine.



What he wants is irrelevant.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505297342936670208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505151580311597061


----------



## Apollon

Flight of falcon said:


> Only pro Ukrainian trolls look at the ever expanding red on the map and claim the Russians are defeated and their advance stalled …



Its not about defeating russia. Its about to give them as much losses as possible. Russia has very low birthrate. Evry fallen soldier is a family line that ends and this creates pressure on Putin. And so far thats working.

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> What he wants is irrelevant.


Actually what YOU want is irrelevant 😋

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505247886908424195
Interesting thread to read about the origins of famed Soviet industrial might


----------



## WotTen

The scary thought is that if there is a Russia-NATO engagement later in this war and Russia has mostly depleted its conventional ammunition by that time, it may have no choice but to dip into the nuclear pile.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## LeGenD

jamal18 said:


> Gonzalo lira.
> 
> This guy is broadcasting from karkov, says Russians are avoiding civilian casualteis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About 20 minutes in.



He is sitting inside a building and showing nothing. He could be on Russian payroll in exchange for personal safety. Russians have shot a number of Foreign reporters dead in Ukraine (if you didn't knew). This war zone, dear.

Let me tell you something: shelling does not distinguish between friend and foe.






Bellingcat is mapping incidents of civilian harm and war crimes in Ukraine in real time:









Hospitals Bombed and Apartments Destroyed: Mapping Incidents of Civilian Harm in Ukraine - bellingcat


Bellingcat is mapping incidents that appear to have led to civilian harm and damaged civilian infrastructure in the wake of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.




www.bellingcat.com





Numerous incidents have occurred in Kharkiv as well.









Russia Is Destroying Kharkiv


Residents describe what has been lost after three weeks of attacks.



www.nytimes.com





Some members do not double-check information it seems.

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Actually what YOU want is irrelevant 😋



What i want is government policy up to EU level. Im happy how things develop. You are frustrated.


----------



## Cthulhu

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505297342936670208
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505151580311597061


But the u.s. says they used a Kinzhal missile last week, so where was the target?

US officials confirmed to CNN that Russia launched powerful hypersonic missiles against Ukraine last week, the first known use of such missiles in combat. Russia claimed it deployed hypersonic missiles on Friday to destroy an ammunition warehouse in western Ukraine

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## Wood

Apollon said:


> What i want is government policy up to EU level. Im happy how things develop. You are frustrated.


Do opposition parties in Greece support Putin's Russia?


----------



## jamal18

LeGenD said:


> He is sitting inside a building and showing nothing. He could be on Russian payroll in exchange for his personal safety. Russians have shot a number of Foreign reporters dead in Ukraine (if you didn't knew). This war zone, dear.
> 
> Let me tell you something: shelling does not distinguish between friend and foe.
> 
> Bellingcat is mapping incidents of civilian harm and war crimes in Ukraine in real time:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hospitals Bombed and Apartments Destroyed: Mapping Incidents of Civilian Harm in Ukraine - bellingcat
> 
> 
> Bellingcat is mapping incidents that appear to have led to civilian harm and damaged civilian infrastructure in the wake of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bellingcat.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Numerous incidents have occurred in Kharkiv as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Is Destroying Kharkiv
> 
> 
> Residents describe what has been lost after three weeks of attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some members do not double-check information it seems.


Yes, I fully accept that it is a guy in a room. Not 100%. I merely posted this as a source of interest.


----------



## Wood




----------



## EAGLE777

dBSPL said:


> Due to the occupation of Ukraine, sunflower oil sales start to restricted in Belgium and the Netherlands.
> 
> The situation in Ukraine and Russia, known as "Europe's breadbasket", causes an increase in the prices many of foodstuffs, especially flour and sunflower oil. Most of Europe's wheat and sunflower oil needs are met by Ukraine and Russia.
> 
> Some major supermarket chains in Belgium, including Colruyt and Lidl, have restricted the sale of sunflower oil, flour and canned vegetables. Lidl and Colruytgroup allow a maximum of 2 bottles of oil and 2 packets of flour per customer.
> 
> In the Netherlands, there is a shortage of sunflower oil in the near future. Supermarkets are start to limit the number of sunflower oil bottles that can be purchased per customer. Supermarket chains such as Plus and Jumbo limited cooking oil sales to 1 bottle per customer. Two-thirds of the sunflower oil imported by the Netherlands comes from Ukraine.
> 
> Şükrü Temiz, owner of the Turkish-based supermarket chain Temiz, tells Dutch media, "I'm afraid we will soon have to sell sunflower oil for 5 euros per liter. The costs have increased a lot." The price of 1 liter of sunflower oil in supermarkets in the Netherlands currently ranges from 1.8 to 2 euros. Prices were in the 1.2-1.4 range during the summer months.


sunflower oil is €3,50 right now in Netherlands

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## Cthulhu

WotTen said:


> The scary thought is that if there is a Russia-NATO engagement later in this war and Russia has mostly depleted its conventional ammunition by that time, it may have no choice but to dip into the nuclear pile.


May, Dude that encounter is definitely going to be nuclear.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Muslims in firefight in Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505299959528271872


----------



## jamal18

Cthulhu said:


> May, Dude that encounter is definitely going to be nuclear.


I remember something said by Lavarov. He said words to the effect of WW3 will be nuclear. 

It was not a threat, more a simple statement of facts.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Mariupol 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505298725211717640


----------



## jamal18

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Muslims in firefight in Mariupol
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505299959528271872


I believe that the _town _of Mariupol has been taken. The Azov battalion is holed up in a steel works outside the town.

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## Kraetoz

jamal18 said:


> I remember something said by Lavarov. He said words to the effect of WW3 will be nuclear.
> 
> It was not a threat, more a simple statement of facts.


Considering nukes were used in WW2, it is inevitable that they would be used in WW3.


----------



## Type59

jhungary said:


> I actually rode with Tommy Frank on Thunder Run. Well, granted, he wasn't "IN" Baghdad International like the rest of us, but he was pretty close....
> 
> That's him in Baghdad on the April 2003 (we just took Baghdad) inspecting a Saddam Palace
> 
> View attachment 825567


What did you achieve? Your legacy is mixed. Even in 2022, US has resources invested there at expense and of US civilians. Should have spent 20 years on cleaning up Mexico and south America of cartels because 100,000 opiate related deaths in 2021.

The cartels are deliberately mixing powerful opiates like fentanyl in cocaine and heroin. 





__





Drug Overdose Deaths in the U.S. Top 100,000 Annually


National Center for Health Statistics




www.cdc.gov

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russia backed separatists AKA Russian bums who go to Ukraine to take land and women.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505316989534887941


----------



## Wood

Indian legal fraternity backs Bhandari’s anti-Russia vote at ICJ


Government keeps its distance; says it has no role to play in the Justice’s decision, which is private




www.moneycontrol.com





GOI cannot afford to stand against Russia, but Indian legal fraternity is not forced to look the other way


----------



## EAGLE777

FairAndUnbiased said:


> US never attacked China for supplying Vietnam and in Vietnam US had 3000+ planes shot down. In fact during the height of the Vietnam war in 1972 Nixon went hat in hand to Beijing.
> 
> It's funny, Ukraine is 1/4 the size of Russia by population, 1/8 by GDP. It is putting up a good fight like Imperial Japan did against the US. They're doomed to a slow loss by war of attrition since their heavy weapons and most of all, oil, isn't being replenished, just like Imperial Japan was, but they're doing OK.
> 
> But Vietnam? lol they were what, 1/10th US population, 1/50th by GDP? yet US lost 3000+ planes, 5000+ helicopters. Then tanks rolled into Saigon and it was all over.


They don’t need heavy weapons when they have a weapon like Javelin and stingers they can destroy helicopters and tanks they will get S-300 aswell. Russia doesn’t even control the skies. They don’t have fuel for their trucks soldiers don’t have food. But sure it is going OK.

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## 8888888888888

Apollon said:


> Current russian losses in Ukraine


By Ukraine military so its questionable

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## Foinikas

Wood said:


> Do opposition parties in Greece support Putin's Russia?


They support neutrality and the Communist Party of Greece is against everything NATO does.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia backed separatists AKA Russian bums who go to Ukraine to take land and women.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505316989534887941


These people were born and lived in Ukraine most of their lives,just like millions of others. They have land and families. They started fighting back when the ultranationalists took power in 2014 and sent the Ukrainian Army to put down the revolts and demonstrations in Eastern and South Ukraine. The ones who managed to create militias and resist where the ones in Donbass.

Did you follow the conflict back in 2014-2015? Probably not.

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## jhungary

Type59 said:


> What did you achieve? Your legacy is mixed. Even in 2022, US has resources invested there at expense and of US civilians. Should have spent 20 years on cleaning up Mexico and south America of cartels because 100,000 opiate related deaths in 2021.
> 
> The cartels are deliberately mixing powerful opiates like fentanyl in cocaine and heroin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drug Overdose Deaths in the U.S. Top 100,000 Annually
> 
> 
> National Center for Health Statistics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cdc.gov


well, I am just saying we ride with our general.

As for what do we achieve? Ask the politician, don't ask me.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505320388024320004
LMAO this is going to be Lukashenko's downfall... Belarus army being even less motivated to attack Ukraine. It's going to be hilarious. Putin wants Lukashenko to send his army,let's see how Belarus top brass and population will react...

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## reflecthofgeismar

Apollon said:


> What i want is government policy up to EU level. Im happy how things develop. You are frustrated.


Dude, just stop.
You were always this conserative type (which is fine) but now you are completely on the hypocritical political line of the West.
You don't need to be a Russian coc*su*ker but pls, change your view to a realistic one.
And always these attacks against Foinikas, he is one of the really objective/neutral members in this forum.
Foinikas is a good European, you are hateful/childish in your views. You are just the exact 1to1 copy to "Putin slaves", only other side of the coin.
You remember me always on the young lad in the BF V campaign. 



Foinikas would be just a normal dude doing his duty (like most ordinary folks), you are fanatic bc you are young and don't see the things as they are.
Pls, stop it. Or are you a troll?

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## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505320388024320004
> LMAO this is going to be Lukashenko's downfall... Belarus army being even less motivated to attack Ukraine. It's going to be hilarious. Putin wants Lukashenko to send his army,let's see how Belarus top brass and population will react...


Things have to be very bad for the Russian to ask for Belarus help. 

And you know what, it make Belarus a target too. And it was not protected by Russian nuclear missile....

Fair game everyone.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505320388024320004
> LMAO this is going to be Lukashenko's downfall... Belarus army being even less motivated to attack Ukraine. It's going to be hilarious. Putin wants Lukashenko to send his army,let's see how Belarus top brass and population will react...



I think Putin and Lukashenko will split Ukraine like Germany and Russia split Poland in 1939.


----------



## gambit

FairAndUnbiased said:


> US didn't lose those planes? PAVN didn't roll into Saigon?


 That is pathetic.

I wonder if this is the state of professional military education (PME) in the PLA. Or maybe we should wonder if there is any PME in the PLA at all.

Since am Air Force, am going to stick to airplanes, for now.

The airplane is what we may call a 'force projection' platform, meaning it can carry soldiers far beyond the immediate battlefield. A truck can also carry but a truck can be stopped by the enemy, the ground, or even the weather. But the airplane, the moment it is airborne, is essentially unstoppable. Except by another airplane. What this mean is that if a military power have a weapon that radically altered the ways of battle, like the horse or the machine gun or the airplane, the best way to defeat that military is by matching to the same or better weapon.

Since the airplane can carry the war to practically anywhere, if I am in your airspace, you are immediately on the defensive. See Pearl Harbor, for one example. Defensive measures from the ground cannot deter the airplane. They are line of sight (LOS) limited, meaning you cannot use your AA guns or launch SAMs *UNTIL* the airplane is known. Your LOS maybe as simple as your human eyes or complex like a radar. But the bottom line is that ground defensive measures are reactive, not responsive.

Nani? Is there a difference between 'react' and 'response'? Yes. The difference can be life or death.

Being reactive is means you have to wait for a stimuli before you can act. Being responsive mean you can be preemptive which mean looking for/at intelligence, having intuition, be formulaic, and finally predictive. The airplane is a responsive platform. It will carry the fight to beyond your borders and into enemy airspace, forcing him to respond to you over there.

The US did lost thousands of airplanes over North Viet Nam, but very few of them from air-air engagements because the North Vietnamese Air Force had very few fighters. The vast majority of US air losses in VN came from AA and SAMs, meaning the US was always the initiator of the fight and the NVA was reacting. So whenever people brought up raw statistics, they are being intellectually dishonest. They deceived using statistics. They gave off the impression that somehow the NVAF was powerful enough to stop US airpower.

Forward to the current Russia-Ukraine war, or specifically the air war. Now that it is clear that the VKS is a shiddy air force, and I hate to be so blunt about any air force, the numerically inferior Ukrainian Air Force should be wise to husband what they have to attack Russian ground forces. Here is why...

So far, the VKS have not deliver ordnance like the way US airpower did in VN. We seen heavy bombers did the 'carpet bombing' and fighter-bombers like the F-105 and F-4 doing more focused attacks. So what the NVAF did with their few MIG-21s was to do hit-and-run air tactics. For example, in a formation of 50 fighter-bombers, hit one and the entire force will jettison their bombs. If the VKS have been *CONSISTENTLY* flying heavy bombing sorties, the Ukrainian Air Force can respond in the same way the NVAF did, thereby saving Ukrainian forces from Russian bombs. But since the VKS did nothing or so little of heavy bombing, the Ukrainians can leave their air defense to reactive ground based methods like AA and SAMs, and use their jets to take the fight to Russian ground forces. If the VKS is as capable as US airpower, there would be no Ukrainian Air Force remaining by the 3rd day latest.

This is what PME does. Your PLA leadership probably could do the same if they had not been too busy making money.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Mariupol battle


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505329295765422083


----------



## 925boy

LeGenD said:


> Russia have used following missiles to engage various targets in Ukraine.
> 
> 3M14 Kalibr LACM
> Iskander-K LACM (Hypersonic)
> Kh-101 ALCM
> Iskander-M SRBM (Hypersonic)
> Tochka-U SRBM
> 
> LACM = Land Attack Cruise Missile
> ALCM = Air Launched Cruise Missile
> SRBM = Short Range Ballistic Missile
> 
> @FuturePAF
> @jhungary


Didnt Russia also fire some missile like P800 from the Bastion coastal system within the past day or 2 ?

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## jhungary

gambit said:


> That is pathetic.
> 
> I wonder if this is the state of professional military education (PME) in the PLA. Or maybe we should wonder if there is any PME in the PLA at all.
> 
> Since am Air Force, am going to stick to airplanes, for now.
> 
> The airplane is what we may call a 'force projection' platform, meaning it can carry soldiers far beyond the immediate battlefield. A truck can also carry but a truck can be stopped by the enemy, the ground, or even the weather. But the airplane, the moment it is airborne, is essentially unstoppable. Except by another airplane. What this mean is that if a military power have a weapon that radically altered the ways of battle, like the horse or the machine gun or the airplane, the best way to defeat that military is by matching to the same or better weapon.
> 
> Since the airplane can carry the war to practically anywhere, if I am in your airspace, you are immediately on the defensive. See Pearl Harbor, for one example. Defensive measures from the ground cannot deter the airplane. They are line of sight (LOS) limited, meaning you cannot use your AA guns or launch SAMs *UNTIL* the airplane is known. Your LOS maybe as simple as your human eyes or complex like a radar. But the bottom line is that ground defensive measures are reactive, not responsive.
> 
> Nani? Is there a difference between 'react' and 'response'? Yes. The difference can be life or death.
> 
> Being reactive is means you have to wait for a stimuli before you can act. Being responsive mean you can be preemptive which mean looking for/at intelligence, having intuition, be formulaic, and finally predictive. The airplane is a responsive platform. It will carry the fight to beyond your borders and into enemy airspace, forcing him to respond to you over there.
> 
> The US did lost thousands of airplanes over North Viet Nam, but very few of them from air-air engagements because the North Vietnamese Air Force had very few fighters. The vast majority of US air losses in VN came from AA and SAMs, meaning the US was always the initiator of the fight and the NVA was reacting. So whenever people brought up raw statistics, they are being intellectually dishonest. They deceived using statistics. They gave off the impression that somehow the NVAF was powerful enough to stop US airpower.
> 
> Forward to the current Russia-Ukraine war, or specifically the air war. Now that it is clear that the VKS is a shiddy air force, and I hate to be so blunt about any air force, the numerically inferior Ukrainian Air Force should be wise to husband what they have to attack Russian ground forces. Here is why...
> 
> So far, the VKS have not deliver ordnance like the way US airpower did in VN. We seen heavy bombers did the 'carpet bombing' and fighter-bombers like the F-105 and F-4 doing more focused attacks. So what the NVAF did with their few MIG-21s was to do hit-and-run air tactics. For example, in a formation of 50 fighter-bombers, hit one and the entire force will jettison their bombs. If the VKS have been *CONSISTENTLY* flying heavy bombing sorties, the Ukrainian Air Force can respond in the same way the NVAF did, thereby saving Ukrainian forces from Russian bombs. But since the VKS did nothing or so little of heavy bombing, the Ukrainians can leave their air defense to reactive ground based methods like AA and SAMs, and use their jets to take the fight to Russian ground forces. If the VKS is as capable as US airpower, there would be no Ukrainian Air Force remaining by the 3rd day latest.
> 
> This is what PME does. Your PLA leadership probably could do the same if they had not been too busy making money.


Are you really talking about battle tempo to these yahoo??

LOL, you expect these people understand what you are talking about??

Dude, you have my admiration, I would just laugh at them and move on....

Reactions: Love Love:
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## mmr

Ali_Baba said:


> Bickering spooks at war over disastrous Ukraine invasion​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia's agencies bicker over blame for disastrous Ukraine invasion
> 
> 
> A blame game has commenced between the FSB and the Russian Ministry of Defense, the two departments of the government responsible for the Ukraine invasion preparations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Vladimir Putin reportedly arrests head of the FSB's foreign service ...*


Putler becoming paranoid.


----------



## Vergennes

In Mariupol (encircled),the Russian army advances but is facing a very strong resistance. Azov have sworn to fight to the last.

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## jhungary

Apparently, Leave no man behind does not exist for the Russian



Spoiler: graphic











Sad for those who fall..........


----------



## Sineva

Microsoft said:


> What's the story here/


Oh,just the usual double standards and gross hypocrisy of course.
Its all part of the "rules based international order",ie theres one set of rules for the west and its vassals,and another very different set for the people/countries that the west doesnt like. 
Pretty simple really....

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## Meengla

dBSPL said:


> Putin just tried to prevent the outbreak of a world war. But he failed to foresee the trap of getting (UK-US coordinated) Russia into the swamp. Among the global military powers in the world, the only non-globalist leader is Putin. Russia's mistakes, failures are another story, but I see that Putin's complete demonization is just unfair and western-biased point of view.


It still remains to be seen if Russia will lose this. Apparently there are enough cannon-fodders in Russia and they may well gain enough to strike a hard bargain. 



WotTen said:


> Actually, Trump was a favorite to win 2024 BEFORE this war.
> Now, any hint of an association with Russia is toxic. Trump is toast.



True... This war is blessing for Biden. No questions about it so far. Attention is diverted from the Covid policies, from the inflation to the war. But one slip and Republicans would grab whatever they can from that.


----------



## tower9

Meengla said:


> It still remains to be seen if Russia will lose this. Apparently there are enough cannon-fodders in Russia and they may well gain enough to strike a hard bargain.
> 
> 
> 
> True... This war is blessing for Biden. No questions about it so far. Attention is diverted from the Covid policies, from the inflation to the war. But one slip and Republicans would grab whatever they can from that.



It is way too early to say. Inflation is picking up and it is starting to become a serious problem. I think it will only get worse. A lot of people are very stressed and unhappy with the direction things are going.


----------



## 925boy

zzzz said:


> Possible, dude. Possible.
> 
> Average income includes pensioners, students and welfare earners.
> 
> Russian average wage is 60k rubles.
> Moscow average wage is 140k rubles.
> PPP to nominal ratio for Russia is currently 4.
> That means average Moscow citizen earns $6k per month equivalent for US wage with free healthcare.


i believe this, because Moscow was voted this year s the best city in the world, for either 2021, or 2022. Not an easy feat to achieve for any city, so Moscow must have a solid overall stability to win that award.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## FairAndUnbiased

gambit said:


> That is pathetic.
> 
> I wonder if this is the state of professional military education (PME) in the PLA. Or maybe we should wonder if there is any PME in the PLA at all.
> 
> Since am Air Force, am going to stick to airplanes, for now.
> 
> The airplane is what we may call a 'force projection' platform, meaning it can carry soldiers far beyond the immediate battlefield. A truck can also carry but a truck can be stopped by the enemy, the ground, or even the weather. But the airplane, the moment it is airborne, is essentially unstoppable. Except by another airplane. What this mean is that if a military power have a weapon that radically altered the ways of battle, like the horse or the machine gun or the airplane, the best way to defeat that military is by matching to the same or better weapon.
> 
> Since the airplane can carry the war to practically anywhere, if I am in your airspace, you are immediately on the defensive. See Pearl Harbor, for one example. Defensive measures from the ground cannot deter the airplane. They are line of sight (LOS) limited, meaning you cannot use your AA guns or launch SAMs *UNTIL* the airplane is known. Your LOS maybe as simple as your human eyes or complex like a radar. But the bottom line is that ground defensive measures are reactive, not responsive.
> 
> Nani? Is there a difference between 'react' and 'response'? Yes. The difference can be life or death.
> 
> Being reactive is means you have to wait for a stimuli before you can act. Being responsive mean you can be preemptive which mean looking for/at intelligence, having intuition, be formulaic, and finally predictive. The airplane is a responsive platform. It will carry the fight to beyond your borders and into enemy airspace, forcing him to respond to you over there.
> 
> The US did lost thousands of airplanes over North Viet Nam, but very few of them from air-air engagements because the North Vietnamese Air Force had very few fighters. The vast majority of US air losses in VN came from AA and SAMs, meaning the US was always the initiator of the fight and the NVA was reacting. So whenever people brought up raw statistics, they are being intellectually dishonest. They deceived using statistics. They gave off the impression that somehow the NVAF was powerful enough to stop US airpower.
> 
> Forward to the current Russia-Ukraine war, or specifically the air war. Now that it is clear that the VKS is a shiddy air force, and I hate to be so blunt about any air force, the numerically inferior Ukrainian Air Force should be wise to husband what they have to attack Russian ground forces. Here is why...
> 
> So far, the VKS have not deliver ordnance like the way US airpower did in VN. We seen heavy bombers did the 'carpet bombing' and fighter-bombers like the F-105 and F-4 doing more focused attacks. So what the NVAF did with their few MIG-21s was to do hit-and-run air tactics. For example, in a formation of 50 fighter-bombers, hit one and the entire force will jettison their bombs. If the VKS have been *CONSISTENTLY* flying heavy bombing sorties, the Ukrainian Air Force can respond in the same way the NVAF did, thereby saving Ukrainian forces from Russian bombs. But since the VKS did nothing or so little of heavy bombing, the Ukrainians can leave their air defense to reactive ground based methods like AA and SAMs, and use their jets to take the fight to Russian ground forces. If the VKS is as capable as US airpower, there would be no Ukrainian Air Force remaining by the 3rd day latest.
> 
> This is what PME does. Your PLA leadership probably could do the same if they had not been too busy making money.



So you are saying that VKS is not in Ukrainian airspace, and that UAF is scoring air to air kills and dominating the VKS? VKS is not bombing Ukrainian targets across the country, a country that's the 2nd largest in Europe after Russia itself?


----------



## Meengla

The Russian missile strike in Mykoliav today and yesterday's strike on some military camp in very west of Ukraine both killed a LOTS of people and apparently a lot died while sleeping. I am EXTEMELY sad for the deaths!!! They were someone's sons, brothers, husbands, friends--and human beings. Mykoliav is supposed to be crucial for Russian land advance to Odessa and blocking Ukraine's sea access. I don't think we can write off Russia to get enough to strike a hard bargain. *I think Zelenskyy wants to talk with Putin but Putin is not keen as of now; should tell you something*. We really need to keep questioning the dominant narrative about this war--we were fed lies about the Iraq War of 2003 and the Afghanistan withdrawal in 2021 and much before or between them.

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## EAGLE777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505335057820573696

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## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> Apparently, Leave no man behind does not exist for the Russian
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sad for those who fall..........



You should feel sorry for fellow vets who are running away to Poland after saying this isn't Iraq, Russian artillery and cruise missiles are no joke. I greatly admire them for putting their money where their mouth is and then being brave enough to admit that they thought wrong.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505331099261616129

Russian losses now visually confirmed over 1,600 minimum

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## tower9

FairAndUnbiased said:


> You should feel sorry for fellow vets who are running away to Poland after saying this isn't Iraq, Russian artillery and cruise missiles are no joke. I greatly admire them for putting their money where their mouth is and then being brave enough to admit that they thought wrong.



That is why I think it is insane the amount of people who want NATO to intervene directly against Russia. They think we are fighting the typical rump states and insurgents that the US has been fighting, instead we are fighting a great power that has advanced weaponry, nuclear weapons and hypersonic missiles. 

These fighters going in bought the baloney that the Russians were incompetent and they thought they were going to play Rambo, saving Ukraine. Instead, they saw with their own eyes what it was like fighting a great power with a massive arsenal, seeing their recently acquainted friends blown to pieces, an arm there, a head there, in the matter of seconds. That probably made this shit all too real and that's why a lot of the foreign legion are tripping over themselves trying to get out knowing that they would be nothing but cannon fodder.

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## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> You should feel sorry for fellow vets who are running away to Poland after saying this isn't Iraq, Russian artillery and cruise missiles are no joke. I greatly admire them for putting their money where their mouth is and then being brave enough to admit that they thought wrong.


This is stupid, that missile in Iraq was not targeting us, and it was an Embassy, not a military base.

And you say stuff like you know what happened in war. Have you ever stand in front of someone else's muzzle? Have you ever been shot at with RPG or Mortar. What is your measuring point to see what is bad and what is of no joke?


----------



## The SC

Chinese diplomat: The US escalation in the #Taiwan Strait reflects the real provocative behavior of the Americans, and how they classify every country that does not agree with them, and the viewpoint is an enemy to them and their interests.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505278564949803010

The White House: "History is being written now.. China must decide where it stands."


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505284060674936832

In 1999, NATO bombed the Chinese Embassy in Yugoslavia. The Chinese people will never forget.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505254420317102084


----------



## jhungary

tower9 said:


> That is why I think it is insane the amount of people who want NATO to intervene directly against Russia. They think we are fighting the typical rump states and insurgents that the US has been fighting, instead we are fighting a great power that has advanced weaponry, nuclear weapons and hypersonic missiles.
> 
> These fighters going in bought the baloney that the Russians were incompetent and they thought they were going to play Rambo, saving Ukraine. Instead, they saw with their own eyes what it was like fighting a great power with a massive arsenal, seeing their recently acquainted friends blown to pieces, an arm there, a head there, in the matter of seconds. That probably made this shit all too real and that's why a lot of the foreign legion are tripping over themselves trying to get out knowing that they would be nothing but cannon fodder.


Ukraine banned "foreign legion" in front line. Yes, there are some Foreigner who are fighting in the front line but that is individual case, mostly with Georgia Legion.

The aim for Foreign Legion are to train the Ukrainian population on how to fight in one of those training camp. I know, because someone I know in Ukraine ask me to go.

The Ukrainian don't lack fighter, they need people to train them,. that's the difference. If you think you are going there to fight someone else war, then of course you are in a big surprise

I am suggesting you should really research stuff before you post

And finally, I would not say Russia is a great power when Ukrainian themselves bleed them a bloody nose. It's almost certainly over 10000 casualty, that's more than US 2 wars in the middle over 20 years combine. And you are talking about they are facing off with Ukraine, not US or even Germany.


----------



## The SC

Soldiers of the special rapid response battalion "Ahmed Hajjaj", trained and designed to eliminate especially dangerous terrorists, are waiting for their turn in Ukraine, helping the residents of Donbass.. This is one of the most powerful and well-trained special rapid reaction battalions and includes 60 members of the Kadyrov family.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505062704096157698
Russian and Chechen special forces achieved historic victories against nationalist extremists in Mariupol.

Russian and Chechen special forces achieved historic victories against nationalist extremists in Mariupol.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
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## tower9

jhungary said:


> Ukraine banned "foreign legion" in front line. Yes, there are some Foreigner who are fighting in the front line but that is individual case, mostly with Georgia Legion.
> 
> The aim for Foreign Legion are to train the Ukrainian population on how to fight in one of those training camp. I know, because someone I know in Ukraine ask me to go.
> 
> The Ukrainian don't lack fighter, they need people to train them,. that's the difference. If you think you are going there to fight someone else war, then of course you are in a big surprise
> 
> I am suggesting you should really research stuff before you post



There's been plenty of videos coming out from volunteers themselves talking about how the situation was a lot worst then they anticipated, they saw friends getting blown up and are now jumping ship.


----------



## Meengla

FairAndUnbiased said:


> You should feel sorry for fellow vets who are running away to Poland after saying this isn't Iraq, Russian artillery and cruise missiles are no joke. I greatly admire them for putting their money where their mouth is and then being brave enough to admit that they thought wrong.



If Russia really decides to burn through its missiles stockpile on Ukraine, while pointing its 6000 nukes toward the West to prevent the West from intervening, as a nuclear blackmail, then Ukraine would make even the Dresden bombing by the Allies during the World War II not comparable. What Russia did with its missiles in last two days are perhaps a preview of its firepower mostly unused...

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505322109836353538

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505327216489639936


----------



## tower9

Meengla said:


> If Russia really decides to burn through its missiles stockpile on Ukraine, while pointing its 6000 nukes toward the West to prevent the West from intervening, as a nuclear blackmail, then Ukraine would make even the Dresden bombing by the Allies during the World War II not comparable. What Russia did with its missiles in last two days are perhaps a preview of its firepower mostly unused...



Russia still has plenty of firepower and has a full military industrial supply chain so they can easily make more bombs and missiles if necessary. People here buying into the CNN propaganda are fucking delusional as usual.

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## jhungary

tower9 said:


> There's been plenty of videos coming out from volunteers themselves talking about how the situation was a lot worst then they anticipated, they saw friends getting blown up and are now jumping ship.


First of all, I am AGAINST these idea. That's why I didn't go when I was asked to, I was even sent one of those form, I can upload it to you and you can hand it over to Ukrainian embassy if you want to go, me, no thanks.

Second of all, most of these people are war tourist. People have fantasy about war, think it is a video game, that's why these people go, and of course this is not video game, and people get blown to pieces. That's why they leave.

Does that mean no one is training the Ukrainian? No., I know for a fact that 3 of those camp are running with vet form US Marine and US Army. People failed to realise this is an undertaking, not a tour.

And War is hell, whether you are facing the Afghani or Iraq or Russian, there are no "Easy" war like what the Russian think when they invade. On the other hand, that does not mean Russian soldier is 6 ft tall, judging by the way they fight, they feel like Varsity team than NCAA division 1.

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## Meengla

The SC said:


> Soldiers of the special rapid response battalion "Ahmed Hajjaj", trained and designed to eliminate especially dangerous terrorists, are waiting for their turn in Ukraine, helping the residents of Donbass.. This is one of the most powerful and well-trained special rapid reaction battalions and includes 60 members of the Kadyrov family.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505062704096157698
> Russian and Chechen special forces achieved historic victories against nationalist extremists in Mariupol.
> 
> Russian and Chechen special forces achieved historic victories against nationalist extremists in Mariupol.



I have to say... Chechens look tough! Like the Afghan Taliban tough!! Their often shaved moustaches and beards show they are not some pansy-*** fighters--show them as *believers *in something. But I think they will--or at least should--turn their guns towards Moscow and gain their independence... I don't see much in common between Moscow and Grozny.

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## tower9

jhungary said:


> First of all, I am AGAINST these idea. That's why I didn't go when I was asked to, I was even sent one of those form, I can upload it to you and you can hand it over to Ukrainian embassy if you want to go, me, no thanks.
> 
> Second of all, most of these people are war tourist. People have fantasy about war, think it is a video game, that's why these people go, and of course this is not video game, and people get blown to pieces. That's why they leave.
> 
> Does that mean no one is training the Ukrainian? No., I know for a fact that 3 of those camp are running with vet form US Marine and US Army. People failed to realise this is an undertaking, not a tour.



I perfectly understand that many Western military personnel were in Ukraine training Ukrainian forces. This is one of the primary reasons why Russia attacked. Because the West is using Ukraine as a sacrificial lamb in an anti-Russian crusade. What else did you expect would happen? 

Of course the foreign legion is not on the frontlines. The fact that many are getting blown the **** up while still being in the safety of West Ukraine, just shows you how vicious the Russian bombings have been.

This whole situation is so tragic regardless of what angle you are looking at.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505252548227313670


----------



## Foinikas

reflecthofgeismar said:


> Dude, just stop.
> You were always this conserative type (which is fine) but now you are completely on the hypocritical political line of the West.
> You don't need to be a Russian coc*su*ker but pls, change your view to a realistic one.
> And always these attacks against Foinikas, he is one of the really objective/neutral members in this forum.
> Foinikas is a good European, you are hateful/childish in your views. You are just the exact 1to1 copy to "Putin slaves", only other side of the coin.
> You remember me always on the young lad in the BF V campaign.
> 
> 
> 
> Foinikas would be just a normal dude doing his duty (like most ordinary folks), you are fanatic bc you are young and don't see the things as they are.
> Pls, stop it. Or are you a troll?


He's fought with half the forum. I wasn't following it all,but first he pissed off the Persians by insulting them,then he started insulting the Chinese and their leaders. Then he fought with other people.

The war in Ukraine is bad. Orthodox are killing Orthodox and the Russians and Ukrainians are brothers. Imagine Czechs invading Slovakia.

Personally,I believe Russia,Belarus and Ukraine should unite again. But a lot of people in Ukraine want the money and "progress" of the West. They want LGBT rights,feminism and liberalism. They want more independence. They want to forget the Russian identity of theirs and many of them want to forget their Slavic culture and become more "Europeans".

All that is because of the poverty and oppression they had endured under the communist tyranny,but also because of the influence of USA and Western Europe after the fall of communism.

So their leaders are acting like so many in the ex-Eastern Bloc:

They want to join NATO and the EU to get money,new weapons and to become a "progressive" society.

One thing that you might notice is that most governments in Europe are "centrist". They are almost all the same. Politically correct,promoting LGBT rights,feminism,extreme secularism and atheism,refugees and capitalism.

There are a few countries who resist that. Hungary is one,Poland used to be one,Russia and Belarus are the ones who resist the most.

Germany had no problem with the Russians,they wanted peaceful trading. France wanted stability in Europe as well.

But the Americans and the British...well,they live too far from Russia to care,they have all these buffer States between them. The Baltics also insisted...and we ended up having almost every country bordering Russia in Europe,to become a NATO member. And then there was Ukraine. The one girl you tell someone not to mess with. The girl next door that you tell the guy from the other side of the neighborhood that she's off limits. That even if she doesn't want you now,he shouldn't hit on her either. He has a lot of girlfriends. Oh he can have almost any woman he likes. But no,he goes there and knocks on her door and flirts with her. Because he wants them all.

There could be peace in this world,but some countries really want everything. There could have been peace in Palestine if Israel moved back to the pre-1967 borders and recognized Palestine.

Now you have idiots like Biden and Johnson and those behind them,doing the same things that Bush and Blair did. And you have Zelensky who is the useful idiot.

But then again,Britain,France and the Ottoman Empire went to war against the Russians in Crimea. The Russians lost,but all countries suffered heavy casualties.







Greek volunteers in Sevastopol,1854. Crimean War.

Reactions: Like Like:
7 | Love Love:
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## serenity

Meengla said:


> If Russia really decides to burn through its missiles stockpile on Ukraine, while pointing its 6000 nukes toward the West to prevent the West from intervening, as a nuclear blackmail, then Ukraine would make even the Dresden bombing by the Allies during the World War II not comparable. What Russia did with its missiles in last two days are perhaps a preview of its firepower mostly unused...



Russia has air superiority and Tu-22 and Tu-95 are all out of range of manpads. Russia so far has not been using mass bombing to limit destruction and damage.

I don't know why western propaganda and social media keeps creating the idea and illusion that Russia does not have air superiority.

Russia operates aircraft and even helicopters and drones without resistance although they are attacked and occasionally shot down by manpads and other short range weapons but they do not have resistance and contesting airspace from Ukrainian Airforce. If the Russians wanted to use bombers, those bombers are far out of range of manpads and Ukraine has very little to no air to air combat capability left. It also has no more (according to Russians) medium to long range air defence missile systems left either.

Russia probably wants to keep big cities and infrastructure intact.

They might also want to try and reduce deaths but no idea how that's like with their soldiers.

Fact is Russia has total air dominance and resistance to that doesn't count as they don't have air dominance.

If during the last 20 years of US war in Afghanistan had Russia and China both constantly giving Taliban free and plentiful manpads, the US would lose many more aircraft or at least create so much trouble for their mission planning that they have to go high only. Taliban's left over stingers from Mujahideens forced USAF to operate higher.

Russia doesn't have the luxury of time. If they want to stay in Ukraine and fight for another 19 years like US did in Afghanistan then yeah sure go high and minimize losses. Some dumb people want to compare orange with apple and say apple is more crisp lol.

Even in Syria, Israelis lost an F-16 with conflict that isn't even 1/1000 the scale and intensity of this Ukraine Russia one. If Iraqis had 1000s of manpads shipped in constantly over months, the USAF wouldn't have been able to win the high technology war so quickly either.

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## F-22Raptor

tower9 said:


> Russia still has plenty of firepower and has a full military industrial supply chain so they can easily make more bombs and missiles if necessary. People here buying into the CNN propaganda are fucking delusional as usual.




No they can't. PGMs are expensive, and that's money that Russia has little of. The Russian military also imports a lot of Western electronic for its military systems. Replacing losses won't be easy for them. Their PGM stocks are dwindling.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

Meengla said:


> I have to say... Chechens look tough! Like the Afghan Taliban tough!! Their often shaved moustaches and beards show they are not some pansy-*** fighters--show them as *believers *in something. But I think they will--or at least should--turn their guns towards Moscow and gain their independence... I don't see much in common between Moscow and Grozny.


They have fought a bitter war against Russia.. that ended with the latter everything they asked for.. now they are loyal to Russia..


----------



## tower9

Foinikas said:


> He's fought with half the forum. I wasn't following it all,but first he pissed off the Persians by insulting them,then he started insulting the Chinese and their leaders. Then he fought with other people.
> 
> The war in Ukraine is bad. Orthodox are killing Orthodox and the Russians and Ukrainians are brothers. Imagine Czechs invading Slovakia.
> 
> Personally,I believe Russia,Belarus and Ukraine should unite again. But a lot of people in Ukraine want the money and "progress" of the West. They want LGBT rights,feminism and liberalism. They want more independence. They want to forget the Russian identity of theirs and many of them want to forget their Slavic culture and become more "Europeans".
> 
> All that is because of the poverty and oppression they had endured under the communist tyranny,but also because of the influence of USA and Western Europe after the fall of communism.
> 
> So their leaders are acting like so many of the leaders in the ex-Eastern Bloc:
> 
> They want to join NATO and the EU to get money,new weapons and to become a "progressive" society.
> 
> One thing that you might notice is that most governments in Europe are "centrist". They are almost all the same. Politically correct,promoting LGBT rights,feminism,extreme secularism and atheism,refugees and capitalism.
> 
> There are a few countries who resist that. Hungary is one,Poland used to be one,Russia and Belarus are the ones who resist the most.
> 
> Germany had no problem with the Russians,they wanted peaceful trading. France wanted stability in Europe as well.
> 
> But the Americans and the British...well,they live too far from Russia to care,they have all these buffer States between them. The Baltics also insisted...and we ended up having almost every country bordering Russia in Europe,to become a NATO member. And then there was Ukraine. The one girl you tell someone not to mess with. The girl next door that you tell the guy from the other side of the neighborhood that she's off limits. That even if she doesn't want you now,he shouldn't hit on her either. He has a lot of girlfriends. Oh he can have almost any woman he likes. But no,he goes there and knocks on her door and flirts with her. Because he wants them all.
> 
> There could be peace in this world,but some countries really want everything. There could have been peace in Palestine if Israel moved back to the pre-1967 borders and recognized Palestine.
> 
> Now you have idiots like Biden and Johnson and those behind them,doing the same things that Bush and Blair did. And you have Zelensky who is the useful idiot.
> 
> But then again,Britain,France and the Ottoman Empire went to war against the Russians in Crimea. The Russians lost,but all countries suffered heavy casualties.
> 
> View attachment 825619
> 
> 
> Greek volunteers in Sevastopol,1854. Crimean War.


Accurate analysis. 

To be honest, I don't blame Ukrainians for wanting to be part of the "prosperous West". But do not ever go full retard and completely ignore your geopolitical situation. The day Ukraine decided to be a pawn of NATO, it went full retard. 

The reality is that Ukraine would've prospered the most by declaring itself a neutral state. It is a major crossroads of trade and energy, and it could achieve great development that way. Instead, it is a poor country doing the dirty work of being the grunt running into enemy firepower, while the disgusting ZOG fat cats on Wall Street profit off of the markets while crying crocodile tears in the media.

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## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> This is stupid, that missile in Iraq was not targeting us, and it was an Embassy, not a military base.
> 
> And you say stuff like you know what happened in war. Have you ever stand in front of someone else's muzzle? Have you ever been shot at with RPG or Mortar. What is your measuring point to see what is bad and what is of no joke?



When did I mention missiles in Iraq?

How come every time you talk you either deliberately twist or incompetently misunderstand what I say? How come everyone else understands me, just not you?


----------



## jhungary

tower9 said:


> I perfectly understand that many Western military personnel were in Ukraine training Ukrainian forces. This is one of the primary reasons why Russia attacked. Because the West is using Ukraine as a sacrificial lamb in an anti-Russian crusade. What else did you expect would happen?
> 
> Of course the foreign legion is not on the frontlines. The fact that many are getting blown the **** up while still being in the safety of West Ukraine, just shows you how vicious the Russian bombings have been.
> 
> This whole situation is so tragic regardless of what angle you are looking at.


Well, they can attack all they want, that does not stop anything, in fact, there are camp INSIDE poland and romania where the actual US force training the TDF.

They cannot attack over the border or really close to the border, which mean these camp will continue. And if what I heard is true, there are a lot of those camp all inside Western Ukraine or even inside Poland or Romania.



FairAndUnbiased said:


> When did I mention missiles in Iraq?
> 
> How come every time you talk you either deliberately twist or incompetently misunderstand what I say? How come everyone else understands me, just not you?


meh. Whatever. I was describing the situation, but seemingly, it went straight over your head

You have no point anyway.

As I Said, Ukrainian did not depend on these foreign fighter for frontline service. They have more than enough man to fight the Russia, they are being invaded, not the other way around. Not the same I can say with Russia.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505283458075172870

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## FuturePAF

Will Halliburton’s exit from Russia’s oil fields pt enough pressure on China to do what Biden asked of Xi in the phone call?

Can Chinese companies replace (technically) what these western companies do in the Russian oil and gas sector? Will this move increase global oil and gas prices or has the world insulated itself from Russian energy markets? Wasn’t this a Russian red line; sanctions (direct or indirect) on its energy industry. 

This move seem to indicate that the West is trying to go for the coup de grace and finish off Russia. Killing the Chicken to scare the monkeys, eh?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505320162135883781


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## Meengla

tower9 said:


> Accurate analysis.
> 
> To be honest, I don't blame Ukrainians for wanting to be part of the "prosperous West". But do not ever go full retard and completely ignore your geopolitical situation. The day Ukraine decided to be a pawn of NATO, it went full retard.
> 
> The reality is that Ukraine would've prospered the most by declaring itself a neutral state. It is a major crossroads of trade and energy, and it could achieve great development that way. Instead, it is a poor country doing the dirty work of being the grunt running into enemy firepower, while the disgusting ZOG fat cats on Wall Street profit off of the markets while crying crocodile tears in the media.



Add to that... Putin is more like an aberration in history. He is one of those once in a century or two leaders who are strong willed and act boldly. This war was totally unnecessary. A post Putin Russia, despite the fear mongering in this thread, would be a Russia like that of a Yeltsin or a Medvedev. There are no more Putins left in Russia and if they are then resources are not around--as they are not even now--to take on NATO. Utter fear mongering started by the Neocons in America!!

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## thetutle

coffee_cup said:


> Cost of war for Russia is going to be expensive.
> 
> According to the German expert Janis Kluge in "Tagesschau", even though the most expensive war items such as Tanks, Rockets, missiles, fighter jets etc have already been built by Russians prior to this war, Russian will still require around EURO *20 Million per day* as extra costs for this war to continue.
> 
> This is quite expensive and will mean around *7 Billion EUR per year*. Given the state of Russian economy, lets see for how long can they keep up with it.


Well they have 350 billion in foreign reserves they can access. So they can sustain it for 50 years or so.


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## Foinikas

tower9 said:


> Accurate analysis.
> 
> To be honest, I don't blame Ukrainians for wanting to be part of the "prosperous West". But do not ever go full retard and completely ignore your geopolitical situation. The day Ukraine decided to be a pawn of NATO, it went full retard.
> 
> The reality is that Ukraine would've prospered the most by declaring itself a neutral state. It is a major crossroads of trade and energy, and it could achieve great development that way. Instead, it is a poor country doing the dirty work of being the grunt running into enemy firepower, while the disgusting ZOG fat cats on Wall Street profit off of the markets while crying crocodile tears in the media.


Yes,I mean I understand that they want to prosper. But their behavior is kind of like the village guy who goes to the city and acts like he's not from a village. You have Ukrainians saying "I'm not a Slav,I'm Aryan". You have Ukrainians saying they are not Russians,they are Ukrainians. That Russia and Ukraine is different.

That's like saying Mainland Greeks and Cypriot Greeks are a different nation. That Serbs and Montenegrins are different. 
That Palestinians and Jordanians are different. Like saying Bavarians and Westphalians are not Germans.

They could have made a lot of money and would have been ok if they tried to be neutral. Isn't Austria making a lot of money from being neutral all these decades? 

But these nationalists want a seperate identity. They want "Ukraine",they wanted their own their own Ukrainian Orthodox Church,so they got Autocephaly from the Ecumenical Patriarchate. They wanted to acknowledge no minority except the Tatars,they wanted to join NATO,EU,to have a restored pagan religion,to be called "white europeans" and not "Slavs".

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## sur

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505252548227313670



Nuland busy manipulating Ukraine's government set up in 2014, deciding on next president after overthrowing pro-Rus elected one:
This Klitschko is one of the perps under consideration for vice president.

(src)






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505349693030682624


Talking of Ukrainian own missile hitting their own buildings:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504826782767271941

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## thetutle

zzzz said:


> This amazing and delusional virtual reality world of Ukrainian propaganda reposted by Turkish propaganda
> 
> BTW all TB2s supplied before war and after war (about 50 of them) already destroyed and the only thing they managed to do in 3 weeks is literally 3-4 hits.


Do you believe this? what do you think the Casualty figures are? 

Since Bayraktar is of no thereat to the Russian army, do you mind if Turkey supplies Ukraine with 50 more?

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## tower9

Foinikas said:


> Yes,I mean I understand that they want to prosper. But their behavior is kind of like the village guy who goes to the city and acts like he's not from a village. You have Ukrainians saying "I'm not a Slav,I'm Aryan". You have Ukrainians saying they are not Russians,they are Ukrainians. That Russia and Ukraine is different.
> 
> That's like saying Mainland Greeks and Cypriot Greeks are a different nation. That Serbs and Montenegrins are different.
> That Palestinians and Jordanians are different. Like saying Bavarians and Westphalians are not Germans.
> 
> They could have made a lot of money and would have been ok if they tried to be neutral. Isn't Austria making a lot of money from being neutral all these decades?
> 
> But these nationalists want a seperate identity. They want "Ukraine",they wanted their own their own Ukrainian Orthodox Church,so they got Autocephaly from the Ecumenical Patriarchate. They wanted to acknowledge no minority except the Tatars,they wanted to join NATO,EU,to have a restored pagan religion,to be called "white europeans" and not "Slavs".


Betrayal from your own brother hurts much more than aggression from a known enemy. I can see why Putin went full savage on the Ukrainians for betraying their roots.


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## Meengla

Foinikas said:


> Yes,I mean I understand that they want to prosper. But their behavior is kind of like the village guy who goes to the city and acts like he's not from a village. You have Ukrainians saying "I'm not a Slav,I'm Aryan". You have Ukrainians saying they are not Russians,they are Ukrainians. That Russia and Ukraine is different.
> 
> That's like saying Mainland Greeks and Cypriot Greeks are a different nation. That Serbs and Montenegrins are different.
> That Palestinians and Jordanians are different. Like saying Bavarians and Westphalians are not Germans.
> 
> They could have made a lot of money and would have been ok if they tried to be neutral. Isn't Austria making a lot of money from being neutral all these decades?
> 
> But these nationalists want a seperate identity. They want "Ukraine",they wanted their own their own Ukrainian Orthodox Church,so they got Autocephaly from the Ecumenical Patriarchate. They wanted to acknowledge no minority except the Tatars,they wanted to join NATO,EU,to have a restored pagan religion,to be called "white europeans" and not "Slavs".



I think you and @thetutle have a lot of great insight about eastern Europe although you two are often on different sides. Reading you two's opinion--as from @dBSPL are very good from that region.

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## gambit

FairAndUnbiased said:


> So you are saying that VKS is not in Ukrainian airspace,...


Where did I even implied that?



FairAndUnbiased said:


> ...and that UAF is scoring air to air kills and dominating the VKS?


Where did I even implied that?



FairAndUnbiased said:


> VKS is not bombing Ukrainian targets across the country, a country that's the 2nd largest in Europe after Russia itself?


Where did I even implied that?

Clearly, you have not understood a single thing I said, which is understandable since you never served. But if you never served, then maybe you should not be making declarations on things you know nothing about.


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## tower9

FuturePAF said:


> Will Halliburton’s exit from Russia’s oil fields pt enough pressure on China to do what Biden asked of Xi in the phone call?
> 
> Can Chinese companies replace (technically) what these western companies do in the Russian oil and gas sector? Will this move increase global oil and gas prices or has the world insulated itself from Russian energy markets? Wasn’t this a Russian red line; sanctions (direct or indirect) on its energy industry.
> 
> This move seem to indicate that the West is trying to go for the coup de grace and finish off Russia. Killing the Chicken to scare the monkeys, eh?


Peter zeihan is a know neolib shill. He is a propagandist and is delusional just like most of the zog establishment that controls the west. 

In what world do these people live in where they have rapaciously attacked China for ten years and suddenly think China will turn on Russia. Because why? Chip sanctions? Oh, trump already did that. Trade war? Yep, already played that card. More fake news? Yeah they already overdid it with the Uyghur genocide garbage. They have no cards left. 

What are they going to do? Stop trade with china? They already block a lot of China’s high tech brands from the US market, a lot of China’s trade with the west is limited to offshore manufacturing by western mnc’s who take most of the profit margin or lower end electronics and household goods. If they think China is going to trade in its future and accept a subordinate position as an abused and reviled house slave living in their master’s house, they must be low IQ and insane beyond any measure!

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## Meengla

Foinikas said:


> Yes,I mean I understand that they want to prosper. But their behavior is kind of like the village guy who goes to the city and acts like he's not from a village. You have Ukrainians saying "I'm not a Slav,I'm Aryan". You have Ukrainians saying they are not Russians,they are Ukrainians. That Russia and Ukraine is different.



I remember when the Rwandan massacres happened in the 1990s. There was a lot of talk about how can we tell who is Hutu and who is Tutsi?? Like Indians and Pakistanis might look similar to rest of the world, like Japanese and Chinese might look similar to the world, the world looks at Ukraine and Russia and wonders--why fight?? And seriously this 'Aryan' vs 'Slavs'?? Once you go down that route then only the northern Europeans are 'Aryans'. Such a useless, pathetic fight going on.

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## tower9

Meengla said:


> I remember when the Rwandan massacres happened in the 1990s. There was a lot of talk about how can we tell who is Hutu and who is Tutsi?? Like Indians and Pakistanis might look similar to rest of the world, like Japanese and Chinese might look similar to the world, the world looks at Ukraine and Russia and wonders--why fight?? And seriously this 'Aryan' vs 'Slavs'?? Once you go down that route then only the northern Europeans are 'Aryans'. Such a useless, pathetic fight going on.


They want to be Aryans because they’ve been indoctrinated in Nazi ideology. So they want to be identified as being part of the master race.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505306328851435523


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## Meengla

tower9 said:


> They want to be Aryans because they’ve been indoctrinated in Nazi ideology. So they want to be identified as being part of the master race.



I honestly don't know enough to say anything to support or oppose that viewpoint. I am aware of the 'Nazi' dimension about Ukraine but I tend to think, in a nation of 40+ million, a few hundred or a few thousand extreme racists are a fringe. And they seem to be present in just about EVERY white country, going by what happened in the mosque attack in New Zealand recently.
What I believe is that the Western Civilization is a major attractant to humanity, regardless of religion, culture, races....

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505296986420961283

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505313736491425792


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## gambit

tower9 said:


> Peter zeihan is a know neolib shill.


I doubt you actually read anything by Zeihan.

Zeihan is what I call a 'political naturalist'. He does not advocate anything radical or sudden like wars but that we should let the causes-effects chain do their things. If someone start a war, we should fight, of course, but we should let the forces of politics, culture, and human nature run their course. What you do not like is that Zeihan showed, with historical data and reason, that the US will remain the global hyperpower for a long time, even longer than your China's temporary ascendancy into the 'Number 1' status. I heard thru the grapevine that Zeihan's books are actually quite popular among the Chinese elites, especially 'The Accidental Superpower'. Try it.

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## Foinikas

Meengla said:


> I think you and @thetutle have a lot of great insight about eastern Europe although you two are often on different sides. Reading you two's opinion--as from @dBSPL are very good from that region.


One thing about Russians...when Napoleon invaded with the Grande Armee,they kept retreating and retreating. At first they suffered big losses and kept retreating,but in the end they won. Not only they won,but they reached France with their Allies.

In WWII,they lost Kiev,Minsk. Leningrad,Moscow and Stalingrad were under heavy siege. They lost almost all of European Russia. They had millions of soldiers dead,wounded and captured by the enemy. In the end,not only did they kick the Germans out,but they reached Berlin.

And like Jamie Lannister said: "The war's not won". So,let's wait and see.

Of course right now the Ukrainians are getting some of the best AT weapons. Donations of rifles from European countries have reached the tenths of thousands. For the Western Europeans,the more Ukrainians and Russians that are dying,the better. Less Russians to fight and less Ukrainians to pay if they win the war and join NATO or the EU. And the weapons companies are making a lot of money. Americans and British are ordering more weapons,taking money from budgets and all in the name of "Freedom and Justice". And LGBT rights,because let's not forget,Pewtin is evil dictator who doesn't allow LGBT rights,feminists and free speech. Of course all of the Gulf monarchies and countries in the area do the same,but hey,they are filthy rich and friendly

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## tower9

Meengla said:


> I honestly don't know enough to say anything to support or oppose that viewpoint. I am aware of the 'Nazi' dimension about Ukraine but I tend to think, in a nation of 40+ million, a few hundred or a few thousand extreme racists are a fringe. And they seem to be present in just about EVERY white country, going by what happened in the mosque attack in New Zealand recently.
> What I believe is that the Western Civilization is a major attractant to humanity, regardless of religion, culture, races....


Of course they are a minority but the group who espoused that they are “aryans” are certainly Nazis.



gambit said:


> I doubt you actually read anything by Zeihan.
> 
> Zeihan is what I call a 'political naturalist'. He does not advocate anything radical or sudden like wars but that we should let the causes-effects chain do their things. If someone start a war, we should fight, of course, but we should let the forces of politics, culture, and human nature run their course. What you do not like is that Zeihan showed, with historical data and reason, that the US will remain the global hyperpower for a long time, even longer than your China's temporary ascendancy into the 'Number 1' status. I heard thru the grapevine that Zeihan's books are actually quite popular among the Chinese elites, especially 'The Accidental Superpower'. Try it.


As usual you like to talk with an air of intellectual superiority disguising your complete misrepresentation of reality. 

Peter Zeihan is a neolib and globalist shill and has always been.


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## The SC



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## dbc

FuturePAF said:


> Will Halliburton’s exit from Russia’s oil fields pt enough pressure on China to do what Biden asked of Xi in the phone call?
> 
> Can Chinese companies replace (technically) what these western companies do in the Russian oil and gas sector? Will this move increase global oil and gas prices or has the world insulated itself from Russian energy markets? Wasn’t this a Russian red line; sanctions (direct or indirect) on its energy industry.
> 
> This move seem to indicate that the West is trying to go for the coup de grace and finish off Russia. Killing the Chicken to scare the monkeys, eh?



The guy is overexcited these companies will not sign new contracts but will honour existing commitments in compliance with sanctions so this has no impact on producing assets.

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## FuturePAF

Btw, what is the state of the Russian military in the rest of the country? Any moves by the SCO to back fill defense of Russia’s borders just in case?

And is this also a time for foreign investors to look for opportunities in former Soviet republics, now that Russia may not be able to finance its influence in those regions? Turks could do more in the Caspian Sea area (undersea pipelines between Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan), and the GCC could diversify their economies and invest in mining in Central Asia possibly via a land corridor through Pakistan (with secondary benefit of encircling the Iranians from the North and East)?



tower9 said:


> Peter zeihan is a know neolib shill. He is a propagandist and is delusional just like most of the zog establishment that controls the west.
> 
> In what world do these people live in where they have rapaciously attacked China for ten years and suddenly think China will turn on Russia. Because why? Chip sanctions? Oh, trump already did that. Trade war? Yep, already played that card. More fake news? Yeah they already overdid it with the Uyghur genocide garbage. They have no cards left.
> 
> What are they going to do? Stop trade with china? They already block a lot of China’s high tech brands from the US market, a lot of China’s trade with the west is limited to offshore manufacturing by western mnc’s who take most of the profit margin or lower end electronics and household goods. If they think China is going to trade in its future and accept a subordinate position as an abused and reviled house slave living in their master’s house, they must be low IQ and insane beyond any measure!


He does seem like the new Gordon Chang. If this war and the sanctions have done anything its push China into more self reliance. Kazakhstan is probably the work around to a lot of sanctions, at least for a lot of civilian industries.

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## gambit

jhungary said:


> First of all, I am AGAINST these idea. That's why I didn't go when I was asked to, I was even sent one of those form, I can upload it to you and you can hand it over to Ukrainian embassy if you want to go, me, no thanks.
> 
> Second of all, *most of these people are war tourist.* People have fantasy about war, think it is a video game, that's why these people go, and of course this is not video game, and people get blown to pieces. That's why they leave.
> 
> Does that mean no one is training the Ukrainian? No., I know for a fact that 3 of those camp are running with vet form US Marine and US Army. People failed to realise this is an undertaking, not a tour.
> 
> And War is hell, whether you are facing the Afghani or Iraq or Russian, there are no "Easy" war like what the Russian think when they invade. On the other hand, that does not mean Russian soldier is 6 ft tall, judging by the way they fight, they feel like Varsity team than NCAA division 1.


You mean like many here? At least in their minds, anyway.

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## Titanium100

Foinikas said:


> Yes,I mean I understand that they want to prosper. But their behavior is kind of like the village guy who goes to the city and acts like he's not from a village. You have Ukrainians saying "I'm not a Slav,I'm Aryan". You have Ukrainians saying they are not Russians,they are Ukrainians. That Russia and Ukraine is different.
> 
> That's like saying Mainland Greeks and Cypriot Greeks are a different nation. That Serbs and Montenegrins are different.
> That Palestinians and Jordanians are different. Like saying Bavarians and Westphalians are not Germans.
> 
> They could have made a lot of money and would have been ok if they tried to be neutral. Isn't Austria making a lot of money from being neutral all these decades?
> 
> But these nationalists want a seperate identity. They want "Ukraine",they wanted their own their own Ukrainian Orthodox Church,so they got Autocephaly from the Ecumenical Patriarchate. They wanted to acknowledge no minority except the Tatars,they wanted to join NATO,EU,to have a restored pagan religion,to be called "white europeans" and not "Slavs".



You are not an Aryan but rather Greek-Latin.. Aryan is a wide-spread use for all whites it is not an identification. Southern Europeans are Latin with dark hair and hot tempers they differ greatly from the once slightly up north

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## Meengla

Foinikas said:


> Of course right now the Ukrainians are getting some of the best AT weapons. Donations of rifles from European countries have reached the tenths of thousands. For the Western Europeans,the more Ukrainians and Russians that are dying,the better. Less Russians to fight and* less Ukrainians to pay if they win the war* and join NATO or the EU. And the weapons companies are making a lot of money. Americans and British are ordering more weapons,taking money from budgets and all in the name of "Freedom and Justice". And LGBT rights,because let's not forget,Pewtin is evil dictator who doesn't allow LGBT rights,feminists and free speech. Of course all of the Gulf monarchies and countries in the area do the same,but hey,they are filthy rich and friendly



You certainly have a distinct, and refreshing take on the current events! You are sort of like @jamahir of Greece!
But I don't think the West is aiming to have lots of Ukrainians killed or even Russian killed. I think, in a perversely anachronistic way, eastern Europe is western Europe's 'Lebensraum'. Killing cheap labor is not a smart choice! One has to look at the current events not from the proverbial '30,000 feet view'. But from something like a '10,000 years view'.
In the end, it is all for resources!!


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## tower9

FuturePAF said:


> Btw, what is the state of the Russian military in the rest of the country?
> 
> And is this also a time for foreign investors to look for opportunities in former Soviet republics, now that Russia may not be able to finance its influence in those regions? Turks could do more in the Caspian Sea area (undersea pipelines between Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan), and the GCC could diversify their economies and invest in mining in Central Asia possibly via a land corridor through Pakistan (with secondary benefit of encircling the Iranians from the North and East)?
> 
> 
> He does seem like the new Gordon Chang. If this war and the sanctions have done anything its push China into more self reliance.


I can tell you what sanctions on China from the west will do. It will convince China that there is no room any longer for any cooperation with the west and instead it will need to put its full weight into destroying the western world order. The west and its population, accustomed to the good times, will not be ready for that. At all.

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## The SC



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## Meengla

FuturePAF said:


> And is this also a time for foreign investors to look for opportunities in former Soviet republics, now that Russia may not be able to finance its influence in those regions? Turks could do more in the Caspian Sea area (undersea pipelines between Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan), and the GCC could diversify their economies and invest in mining in Central Asia possibly via a land corridor through Pakistan (with secondary benefit of encircling the Iranians from the North and East)?



Excellent points! There is a tectonic shift happening in geopolitics as we write this. The old order in Eurasia, *which is truly the center of human interactions*, barely held together since WW 2, is crumbling before out eyes....

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505177774293753862

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## dbc

tower9 said:


> Peter zeihan is a know neolib shill. He is a propagandist and is delusional just like most of the zog establishment that controls the west.


what is with you and labels? Zeihan probably misunderstood the announcement. The sanctions on Russian oil and gas is still limited to the 2014 listed entities and specifically targets enhanced oil recovery and deep sea activities.

The western firms he named announced a moratorium on new business but they will honour existing commitments unless there is another round of more sever sanctions.

Remember these companies have equipment installed in production wells that are operated remotely, emphasis on *remote.*


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## Foinikas

Titanium100 said:


> You are not an Aryan but rather Greek-Latin.. Aryan is a wide-spread use for all whites it is not an identification. Southern Europeans are Latin with dark hair and hot tempers they differ greatly from the once slightly up north


We're talking about Ukrainians,wake up.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505209441431568390

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## Titanium100

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505177774293753862



He lost me at India completely...

He randomly ruined his own analogy by dropping in the POSTER-BOY of SLAVERY and promotor of happily accepting servitude






He invoked the great servant by accident or on purpose just to have them buy more gas

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## Clutch



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## Wood

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505209441431568390


It is obviously green screen. But sure why anyone would not be able to say that just by looking at it


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Well, I am not a pilot, I am a grunt.
> 
> Think about it on the ground perspective, if I call for gunship support, and then I saw two gunship doing this, what would you think if you are on the ground and in the thick of it??
> 
> That thing don't just eat up the pilot morale, but also the people on the ground....


What do you think of the 15,000 UA troop surrounded in Mariupol? What re their chances? or continuing to fight without ressupy? of breaking out? or surviving? Ive seen 10,000 Bosnian troops surrounded and isolated for 3 years, but they held out in the end. It was very hard but they held out. 

What are their chances?

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## Clutch

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505209441431568390



Definitely a Blue Screen by the drama queen president

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## NotSure

Tamerlane said:


> This post explained everything to me. That's why you sound like a teenager suffering from teen angst. When you're older and wiser you'll realize that when you debate an issue you will convince more people of your point of view if you look at both sides of the issue in a more balanced way. A one-sided and emotionally charged diatribe* will turn people off.
> 
> I don't like to pick on individuals, but I've had to read 100s of posts with the same negativity and eventually I had to say something.
> 
> *diatribe = a forceful and bitter verbal attack against someone or something.


He is a spoiled, immature kid without education, without life experience and obviously without intellect. Not even talking about basic human values. Bragging about the money of his parents like a spoiled brat from mtvs my sweet sixteen or so.

The more he talks the more people here on the board and in real life will realize what kind of people are pushing this anti russian agenda. And he is even posting his face ...

The only unclear thing here is: Are his parents awere, what kind of crap he is spreading on the internet?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505319648572624899


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## Meengla

tower9 said:


> I can tell you what sanctions on China from the west will do. It will convince China that there is no room any longer for any cooperation with the west and instead it will need to put its full weight into destroying the western world order. The west and its population, accustomed to the good times, will not be ready for that. At all.



This war works for China in many, many ways. And I had said several times above that, as long as the war is localized around Ukraine-Russia, then China is the No. 1 winner, followed by America as the next winner. But I am NOT blaming China for the war. My ire is directed toward those Neocons sitting in Washington DC who just love wars!! Without them, there wouldn't be this war!!
What China must learn from this war is that the trillions of USD China has is fiat-money. Worthless in case of war against America. I have actually met highly educated Americans who have said something like 'so what can China do if we don't pay them their debt??'. Some would say that there are international finance agencies who would hold America to account. What agencies? When the UNSC itself has been rendered more worthless than my local county library board then what is left???
It's anarchy we are talking about. What humanity established as some sort of an 'order' since WW 2 is breaking apart as we write these lines. Things need to go back to some sense of rationality before they go out of hand.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505327617397903361

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

T-64BV pulling BTR-4


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## FuturePAF

Seems like the “Soviets” wanted to give it one last go. Didn’t seem like it worked out that well for them.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505310207622074368


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## FuturePAF

Meengla said:


> This war works for China in many, many ways. And I had said several times above that, as long as the war is localized around Ukraine-Russia, then China is the No. 1 winner, followed by America as the next winner. But I am NOT blaming China for the war. My ire is directed toward those Neocons sitting in Washington DC who just love wars!! Without them, there wouldn't be this war!!
> What China must learn from this war is that the trillions of USD China has is fiat-money. Worthless in case of war against America. I have actually met highly educated Americans who have said something like 'so what can China do if we don't pay them their debt??'. Some would say that there are international finance agencies who would hold America to account. What agencies? When the UNSC itself has been rendered more worthless than my local county library board then what is left???
> It's anarchy we are talking about. What humanity established as some sort of an 'order' since WW 2 is breaking apart as we write these lines. Things need to go back to some sense of rationality before they go out of hand.


Better to have that money invested to secure raw materials and markets and all the technological means to independently maintain their society.



Meengla said:


> You certainly have a distinct, and refreshing take on the current events! You are sort of like @jamahir of Greece!
> But I don't think the West is aiming to have lots of Ukrainians killed or even Russian killed. I think, in a perversely anachronistic way, eastern Europe is western Europe's 'Lebensraum'. Killing cheap labor is not a smart choice! One has to look at the current events not from the proverbial '30,000 feet view'. But from something like a '10,000 years view'.
> In the end, it is all for resources!!


Europe is also getting a lot of young labor from Ukraine, with a lot of the older people staying behind because they can’t make the journey.

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## Meengla

So, even the tune on NY Times is starting to change. Wars are not won on Twitter or Facebook or You Tube!

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## FairAndUnbiased

gambit said:


> Where did I even implied that?
> 
> 
> Where did I even implied that?
> 
> 
> Where did I even implied that?
> 
> Clearly, you have not understood a single thing I said, which is understandable since you never served. But if you never served, then maybe you should not be making declarations on things you know nothing about.


I didn't make any declarations. The original statement was: why isn't Russia bombing NATO for supplying weapons causing them heavy losses? I replied, US didn't bomb China either even though China supplied Vietnam which caused heavy US losses. Which is a fact. The US did not bomb China during the Vietnam War.

Then you come in and say that those losses are mostly due to PAVN air defense - which is 100% true but unrelated to the original reply. Those air defenses were supplied by China and Russia, not domestic to Vietnam. Furthermore you say that VKS cannot control the sky over Ukraine. OK, my question is then, if VKS can't control the sky how come Ukrainian fixed wings aren't flying and scoring air to air kills against Russian strikers while Russian strikers are free to do their thing? Seems to me like Russia has air superiority right now.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505298254933671945


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505147339765432321


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## Foinikas

Meengla said:


> You certainly have a distinct, and refreshing take on the current events! You are sort of like @jamahir of Greece!
> But I don't think the West is aiming to have lots of Ukrainians killed or even Russian killed. I think, in a perversely anachronistic way, eastern Europe is western Europe's 'Lebensraum'. Killing cheap labor is not a smart choice! One has to look at the current events not from the proverbial '30,000 feet view'. But from something like a '10,000 years view'.
> In the end, it is all for resources!!


But isn't that why they have all these millions of refugees and immigrants the Middle-East,Africa and Afghanistan? 

We could solve the problem by giving South Ukraine back to Greece 😋


----------



## Titanium100

I think his Canadian-arab or something


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503761803712638984

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## FuturePAF

tower9 said:


> I can tell you what sanctions on China from the west will do. It will convince China that there is no room any longer for any cooperation with the west and instead it will need to put its full weight into destroying the western world order. The west and its population, accustomed to the good times, will not be ready for that. At all.



But China needs markets as much as the west needs cheap goods. Decoupling is sure to increase, with inflation sure to keep going up and living standards decreasing across the west, but this will also severely effect China. The countries that have sanctioned Russia make up approx. 2/3 of the Global GDP.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505125171404943360


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## FuturePAF

Meengla said:


> Excellent points! There is a tectonic shift happening in geopolitics as we write this. The old order in Eurasia, *which is truly the center of human interactions*, barely held together since WW 2, is crumbling before out eyes....


So now is the time to move fast, especially for the Turks. A Trans-Caspian pipeline could supply a lot of gas to Europe and build slot of influence for the Turks. Once a pipeline is built it will open the way for Turkey to work with Central Asia countries for more trade across the Caspian, hopefully culminating in a undersea rail tunnel, the major sign of Turkish influence and connection in Central Asia, should Russian influence to block it fail (a few years ago, Russia and Iran agreed that undersea boundaries of the Caspian are like those of a SEA, and on the surface it is that of a Lake, a very important difference)

This would also benefit Pakistan and Gwadar as a rail link under the Caspian would make a rail link from Karachi and Gwadar to Quetta and onward to Turkmenistan via Southern Afghanistan more economically viable.

It would also allow the Chinese BRI rail route via Kazakhstan bypassing Russia, although China may not want to send that signal to Russia, so they would just Benefit if Turkey built it for itself and let China use it, just in case.






Turkey should also look at a way to create an Qatar-Turkey Pipeline via Iraq, as a way to stabilize Iraq on terms favorable to Turkey (think Kurds) and bring Iraq out of Iranian influence. All efforts the EU should support for their own good.

Turkey could really come out the third winner from this war, as it maybe allowed to rejoin the F-35 program as well as get its F-16s upgraded in the interim, considering it aid to Ukraine. Hopefully, Turkey could put in a good word with the US to allow a resumption of T-129 deliveries to Pakistan with the American Engines as well as a Turkish upgrade of the PAF’s F-16s. I know it’s a stretch but now is the best time for a Turkey to make its moves.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505254156382228492

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## NotSure




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## Meengla

Foinikas said:


> But isn't that why they have all these millions of refugees and immigrants the Middle-East,Africa and Afghanistan?



I dont know what you are trying to say there? 
I think, subconsciously, perhaps, there is a 'Lebensraum' project going on in Europe. Hitler is demonized, and singled out but I believe he had a LOT of ideological support in western Europe and even in America until he was a strategic threat. The Soviets, even under Stalin, were angels in comparison. I know I am saying something very controversial here but I don't care! It were the Soviets who provided refuge to Jewish people while the all-so-holy West were persecuting Jews and/or denying them sanctuary. 
The Victor writes the History. But not all of us to have cower our intelligence and accept that account of History. Otherwise, History repeats itself in some endless cycles of wars.


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## Madni Bappa

The SC said:


> View attachment 825622


When they say "the entire world" stands with Ukraine

What they really mean by that statement:

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## thetutle

zzzz said:


> You need to plan how to beg Russia for food.
> 
> After taking control of Ukrainian sea shore Russia would control 50% of world exports of wheat, 30% of corn and 80% of sunflower oil.


You'll be able to export it all to Africa if they have the money to pay for it. I use olive oil, haven't eaten corn in 5 years. and I have bread 2 times per week.


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## Wood

Titanium100 said:


> I think his Canadian-arab or something
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503761803712638984


This seems fake because in a recent interview he says that he is in the outskirts of Kiev


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## tower9

dbc said:


> what is with you and labels? Zeihan probably misunderstood the announcement. The sanctions on Russian oil and gas is still limited to the 2014 listed entities and specifically targets enhanced oil recovery and deep sea activities.
> 
> The western firms he named announced a moratorium on new business but they will honour existing commitments unless there is another round of more sever sanctions.
> 
> Remember these companies have equipment installed in production wells that are operated remotely, emphasis on *remote.*


There isn’t anything wrong with identifying people who are clearly spokespeople for establishment and deep state interests or at least propagandizing on their behalf. 

His analysis is always wrong because they are based on the deluded reality that the establishment live in instead of actual facts.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505198979339980804

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## tower9

FuturePAF said:


> But China needs markets as much as the west needs cheap goods. Decoupling is sure to increase, with inflation sure to keep going up and living standards decreasing across the west, but this will also severely effect China. The countries that have sanctioned Russia make up approx. 2/3 of the Global GDP.


Sure it will impact China but it will be a choice that the west makes, not China. Who started the trade war? Who started vilifying who? Who started a propaganda war? Who is funding hostile interests in Hong Kong and taiwan? Who created Covid to politically vilify who? Who is accusing whom of genocide? 

It is very clear that the aggression and hostility is coming from one direction. And the reason why is clear as well. China is becoming much too powerful to contain or control. The west cannot handle having peers who are equals. China could easily coexist with the west as equals and live in mutual respect. The west can’t do the same this is why the media here has to constantly demonize China and dehumanize Chinese people. 

So if the day comes that full decoupling is inevitable, China will no longer have any investment in being cooperative with the west and this will be a huge uncontrollable variable because China is now the worlds most powerful industrial superpower.

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## Clutch



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## gambit

serenity said:


> Russia has air superiority...


Does not.



serenity said:


> ...and Tu-22 and Tu-95 are all out of range of manpads.


We know that.



serenity said:


> Russia so far has not been using mass bombing to limit destruction and damage.


More like because of the lack of PGM. Not because Russia is 'humane'. The major problem with using dumb bombs is that the tactic actually take longer to accomplish what you want, and what you want is enemy submission, not destroying stuff. Destroying wide swaths of land can compel that surrender. But so does destroying more specific targets that will cost you less munition and time while still getting the same behavior.



serenity said:


> I don't know why western propaganda and social media keeps creating the idea and illusion that Russia does not have air superiority.


Maybe it is the truth and not illusion.



serenity said:


> Russia operates aircraft and even helicopters and drones without resistance although they are attacked and occasionally shot down by manpads and other short range weapons but they do not have resistance and contesting airspace from Ukrainian Airforce.


As of now, there is no need for the Ukrainian Air Force to contend with the VKS mano-a-mano. But consider history of Desert Storm vs Viet Nam. US airpower faced an air defense system that was Soviet sourced same as North Viet Nam, and yet in DS the US lost 75 aircrafts vs thousands over North Viet Nam. In both air theaters, the US dominated numerically and operated whenever it wanted. Until or unless the VKS conduct operations like the US over VN and Iraq, the Ukrainian Air Force should leave air defense to ground forces and take its few fighters straight to Russian ground forces.



serenity said:


> Russia probably wants to keep big cities and infrastructure intact.


Not according to the latest news. Why shelling civilian buildings?



serenity said:


> Fact is Russia has total air dominance and resistance to that doesn't count as they don't have air dominance.


Then why are Ukrainian jets continues to sortie? Back in DS, some Iraqi jets made flights to Iran and the reason was because we did not get to them quick enough. But Ukrainian jets are not escaping but flying to attack Russian ground forces. If Ukrainian fighters can attack Russian ground forces, they can also challenge the VKS in the air, and for now, it is better to go after Russian ground forces.



serenity said:


> If during the last 20 years of US war in Afghanistan had Russia and China both constantly giving Taliban free and plentiful manpads, the US would lose many more aircraft or at least create so much trouble for their mission planning that they have to go high only. Taliban's left over stingers from Mujahideens forced USAF to operate higher.
> 
> *Russia doesn't have the luxury of time.* If they want to stay in Ukraine and fight for another 19 years like US did in Afghanistan then yeah sure go high and minimize losses. Some dumb people want to compare orange with apple and say apple is more crisp lol.


Sorry, but that does not compute. Russia do not have the luxury of time, and yet, Russia self restrained because Russia want to keep intact 'big cities and infrastructure' and that Russia do not want to hurt the Ukrainians too much.



serenity said:


> Even in Syria, Israelis lost an F-16 with conflict that isn't even 1/1000 the scale and intensity of this Ukraine Russia one. If Iraqis had 1000s of manpads shipped in constantly over months, the USAF wouldn't have been able to win the high technology war so quickly either.


Then what is preventing China from helping Russia to provide overwhelming odds against the Ukrainians and their US supplied MANPADS?

If it is true that Poutine fired several generals and house arrest his FSB chief, the mental contortions people go thru to try to salvage face for the Russian military is entertainment and nothing more.


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504927427230904320


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## Titanium100

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505198979339980804



Lmao.. This reminds me about a vulture


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## NotSure




----------



## monitor

Anti-Tank Guided Cat 😬(ATGC

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## khansaheeb

tower9 said:


> Yes for the first time in my life, I consider the possibility of a full blown nuclear war realistic. That is a terrifying thought.


Yes, It almost started last week when the stupid Indians fired a nuclear capable missile at Pakistan. It's the closest the world has come to use of a nuclear weapon use since Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945. Indians don't realise how lucky they were not to have New Delhi and Mumbai wiped off the map. I don't know Pakistan's Nuclear doctrine whether it is all for one or one for one exchange but it would be interesting to know.

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## thetutle

zzzz said:


> The assets of Western shareholders from EU and US got wiped out. Russia has frozen shares of Russian companies owned by EU and US citizens for value of $250 billion. And $40 billion of annual dividend payments.
> 
> Is this what makes you so happy?


Its fine by me. What did they expect would happen if they invest in Russia. 

Enjoy their 250 billion. Congratulations. Its not yours.


----------



## Titanium100

monitor said:


> Anti-Tank Guided Cat 😬(ATGC
> View attachment 825634

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## tower9

thetutle said:


> Its fine by me. What did they expect would happen if they invest in Russia.
> 
> Enjoy their 250 billion. Congratulations. Its not yours.


Actually what is unprecedented here is the seizure of personal assets by the western countries. Just think about what kind of message this sends to rich Chinese, Arabs, Pakistanis, Africans about what would happen if your country runs foul of the west and their messianic ideology?

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## Titanium100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505370963545767937

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## gambit

FairAndUnbiased said:


> I didn't make any declarations. The original statement was: why isn't Russia bombing NATO for supplying weapons causing them heavy losses? I replied, US didn't bomb China either even though China supplied Vietnam which caused heavy US losses. Which is a fact. The US did not bomb China during the Vietnam War.


And you guys tell me to study history? The US did bomb North Vietnamese supply lines, the most prominent one is the Ho Chi Minh Trail which ran thru Laos and Cambodia. The reason why the US did not bomb Chinese soil was because of the Geneva Convention that governs certain rights and duties of neutral powers. The word 'neutral' here denote participation, not any ideological/political biases.

It is one thing to use historical precedents, which is what you did, it is another to actually know and understand the reasons why that are applicable to the current situation without resorting to historical precedents, which is what you do not know how and why.



FairAndUnbiased said:


> Then you come in and say that those losses are mostly due to PAVN air defense - which is 100% true but unrelated to the original reply. Those air defenses were supplied by China and Russia, not domestic to Vietnam. Furthermore you say that VKS cannot control the sky over Ukraine. OK, my question is then, if VKS can't control the sky *how come Ukrainian fixed wings aren't flying and scoring air to air kills against Russian strikers while Russian strikers are free to do their thing?* Seems to me like Russia has air superiority right now.


Because the VKS is not as effective as US in doing the same job, so for now, there is no need for the Ukrainian Air Force to go after the VKS. Attacking Russian ground forces is more important.

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## Meengla

NotSure said:


>



Col. Macgregor will be 'cancelled' as soon as he gains some traction in media!! The modus operandi even in the 'free' countries is to tolerate as long as one doesn't become too much of a threat to the dominant discourse. *There are hundreds of billions of $$ at stake every year because of foreign or domestic policies and if people could kill for a $50 bill then they would certainly kill for a $50 billion bill*...

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## thetutle

zzzz said:


> Possible, dude. Possible.
> 
> Average income includes pensioners, students and welfare earners.
> 
> Russian average wage is 60k rubles.
> Moscow average wage is 140k rubles.
> PPP to nominal ratio for Russia is currently 4.
> That means average Moscow citizen earns $6k per month equivalent for US wage with free healthcare.


Thats on the level of Bosnia, one of the poorest countries in europe with no strategic industry or any particularly high tech. A country people are leaving en masse due to the poor wages and living conditions. And your real sanctions have just started.



tower9 said:


> Actually what is unprecedented here is the seizure of personal assets by the western countries. Just think about what kind of message this sends to rich Chinese, Arabs, Pakistanis, Africans about what would happen if your country runs foul of the west and their messianic ideology?


If they had any brain, which they dont, they would not keep their money in the west. 

But, what are their options? investing in their own failed countries? nope, they wont do that. Invest in an African bank? In African derivatives? African Bonds? Indian socks? with he level of Indian corporate governance and a country on the verge of civil war and genocide? lol. Keep your money under the pillow? They have no choice.

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## FuturePAF

tower9 said:


> Sure it will impact China but it will be a choice that the west makes, not China. Who started the trade war? Who started vilifying who? Who started a propaganda war? Who is funding hostile interests in Hong Kong and taiwan? Who created Covid to politically vilify who? Who is accusing whom of genocide?
> 
> It is very clear that the aggression and hostility is coming from one direction. And the reason why is clear as well. China is becoming much too powerful to contain or control. The west cannot handle having peers who are equals. China could easily coexist with the west as equals and live in mutual respect. The west can’t do the same this is why the media here has to constantly demonize China and dehumanize Chinese people.
> 
> So if the day comes that full decoupling is inevitable, China will no longer have any investment in being cooperative with the west and this will be a huge uncontrollable variable because China is now the worlds most powerful industrial superpower.


Classic Thucydides Trap. Pain on both sides, and for the world, but at least the decoupling is better then a war.


----------



## tower9

thetutle said:


> Thats on the level of Bosnia, one of the poorest countries in europe with no strategic industry or any particularly high tech. A country people are leaving en masse due to the poor wages and living conditions. And your real sanctions have just started.
> 
> 
> If they had any brain, which they dont, they would not keep their money in the west.
> 
> But, what are their options? investing in their own failed countries? nope, they wont do that. Invest in an African bank? In African derivatives? African Bonds? Indian socks? with he level of Indian corporate governance and a country on the verge of civil war and genocide? lol. Keep your money under the pillow? They have no choice.


They invested in the west because of the very reason that the west became havens of wealth. It was seen as a safe and secure place to store their wealth. 

No longer. 

And you are deluded if you don’t think there are huge pockets of wealth all throughout the non western world to invest.



FuturePAF said:


> Classic Thucydides Trap. Pain on both sides, and for the world, but at least the decoupling is better then a war.


The decoupling will make a war far more likely actually

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## Meengla

tower9 said:


> Actually what is unprecedented here is the seizure of personal assets by the western countries. Just think about what kind of message this sends to rich Chinese, Arabs, Pakistanis, Africans about what would happen if your country runs foul of the west and their messianic ideology?



The message is very clear. I had quoted some highly educated Americans in my circle above who said something like 'what could China do if we don't pay them the debt back'? And, as I said, when the UNSC has less authority than the board of my local county library facility, then the world is becoming a Jungle. A true Jungle. A Jungle without any pretense of 'order'.

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## FairAndUnbiased

gambit said:


> And you guys tell me to study history? The US did bomb North Vietnamese supply lines, the most prominent one is the Ho Chi Minh Trail which ran thru Laos and Cambodia. The reason why the US did not bomb Chinese soil was because of the Geneva Convention that governs certain rights and duties of neutral powers. The word 'neutral' here denote participation, not any ideological/political biases.
> 
> It is one thing to use historical precedents, which is what you did, it is another to actually know and understand the reasons why that are applicable to the current situation without resorting to historical precedents, which is what you do not know how and why.
> 
> 
> Because the VKS is not as effective as US in doing the same job, so for now, there is no need for the Ukrainian Air Force to go after the VKS. Attacking Russian ground forces is more important.


Yes, the US did bomb North Vietnamese supply lines, just like Russia is bombing Ukrainian supply lines inside Ukraine but not NATO countries.

The Ukrainian Air Force is getting their Su-25s shot down by Russian Flankers so clearly the strategy of focusing on attacking Russian ground forces isn't working. Their Su-27s don't have targeting pods either, so their Su-25s and TB-2s are all they've really got. What they can do - but are unable to do - is use their Su-27s to down Russian cruise missiles and Su-24s/Su-34s to stop THEIR forces from getting hit by tactical strikers. But they can't. So to me, their inability to get air to air kills indicates Russian air superiority - not air supremacy, but also not air parity.

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## thetutle

dBSPL said:


> Due to the occupation of Ukraine, sunflower oil sales start to restricted in Belgium and the Netherlands.
> 
> The situation in Ukraine and Russia, known as "Europe's breadbasket", causes an increase in the prices many of foodstuffs, especially flour and sunflower oil. Most of Europe's wheat and sunflower oil needs are met by Ukraine and Russia.
> 
> Some major supermarket chains in Belgium, including Colruyt and Lidl, have restricted the sale of sunflower oil, flour and canned vegetables. Lidl and Colruytgroup allow a maximum of 2 bottles of oil and 2 packets of flour per customer.
> 
> In the Netherlands, there is a shortage of sunflower oil in the near future. Supermarkets are start to limit the number of sunflower oil bottles that can be purchased per customer. Supermarket chains such as Plus and Jumbo limited cooking oil sales to 1 bottle per customer. Two-thirds of the sunflower oil imported by the Netherlands comes from Ukraine.
> 
> Şükrü Temiz, owner of the Turkish-based supermarket chain Temiz, tells Dutch media, "I'm afraid we will soon have to sell sunflower oil for 5 euros per liter. The costs have increased a lot." The price of 1 liter of sunflower oil in supermarkets in the Netherlands currently ranges from 1.8 to 2 euros. Prices were in the 1.2-1.4 range during the summer months.


Is this really. big deal? do you need oil to cook food? You can bake it, steam it. I dont get the issue with oils. 

Oily food is very unhealthy anyway.

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## tower9

thetutle said:


> Is this really. big deal? do you need oil to cook food? You can bake it, steam it. I dont get the issue with oils.
> 
> Oily food is very unhealthy anyway.


The thing with the complexity of supply chains is that the impact of one commodity is not solely isolated to the use of that commodity. The rise in energy costs will translate to inflation for a huge range of products and services. You will likely not see the true impact of this until two years from now.

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## mili

gambit said:


> And you guys tell me to study history? The US did bomb North Vietnamese supply lines, the most prominent one is the Ho Chi Minh Trail which ran thru Laos and Cambodia. The reason why the US did not bomb Chinese soil was because of the Geneva Convention that governs certain rights and duties of neutral powers. The word 'neutral' here denote participation, not any ideological/political biases.
> .....................................


"The reason why the US did not bomb Chinese soil was because of the Geneva Convention"

ROFLmAO !!
Now I know what Professional in PDF mean.
It means professional comedian. lmao.


----------



## Meengla

thetutle said:


> But, what are their options? investing in their own failed countries? nope, they wont do that. Invest in an African bank? In African derivatives? African Bonds? Indian socks? with he level of Indian corporate governance and a country on the verge of civil war and genocide? lol. Keep your money under the pillow? They have no choice.



Agreed. The money lies in the West and their allies, including those in the Middle East. China is the only non-member of that group. 
As of now too early to say if the global order established since WW 2 is changing but we sure are observing something huge. The Eurasian continent, which is the historic seat of the human activities and power, is going through major changes as we write these lines. I don't see how the old order will survive as was established since WW 2.


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## CrazyZ

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505209441431568390


Video does seem to be doctored.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505298254933671945


I guess it does help to be low profile.


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## serenity

gambit said:


> Does not.
> 
> 
> We know that.
> 
> 
> More like because of the lack of PGM. Not because Russia is 'humane'. The major problem with using dumb bombs is that the tactic actually take longer to accomplish what you want, and what you want is enemy submission, not destroying stuff. Destroying wide swaths of land can compel that surrender. But so does destroying more specific targets that will cost you less munition and time while still getting the same behavior.



Russians are using a lot of PGM but maybe they don't have as many PGM as they ought to or would need to pull off as alternative to unguided bombing of massive swathes of land. This is both due to unwillingness to totally level entire cities via unguided bombing runs and because there is no need. They are doing exactly what you said, using PGMs on specific targets.



gambit said:


> Maybe it is the truth and not illusion.
> 
> 
> As of now, there is no need for the Ukrainian Air Force to contend with the VKS mano-a-mano. But consider history of Desert Storm vs Viet Nam. US airpower faced an air defense system that was Soviet sourced same as North Viet Nam, and yet in DS the US lost 75 aircrafts vs thousands over North Viet Nam. In both air theaters, the US dominated numerically and operated whenever it wanted. Until or unless the VKS conduct operations like the US over VN and Iraq, the Ukrainian Air Force should leave air defense to ground forces and take its few fighters straight to Russian ground forces.
> 
> 
> Not according to the latest news. Why shelling civilian buildings?
> 
> 
> Then why are Ukrainian jets continues to sortie? Back in DS, some Iraqi jets made flights to Iran and the reason was because we did not get to them quick enough. But Ukrainian jets are not escaping but flying to attack Russian ground forces. If Ukrainian fighters can attack Russian ground forces, they can also challenge the VKS in the air, and for now, it is better to go after Russian ground forces.



I didn't know Ukraine Airforce is still operating. When was the last time it contested airspace control against VKS? Ghost of Kiev was made up. When did UAF and VKS do air combat? How does UAF attack Russian ground forces? They are using drones very sparingly and carefully choosing when to use and what to use against. NATO feeding intel is very valuable in this kill chain but I wouldn't call some air to ground only light drones and MALEs at best as UAF contesting air superiority with VKS.



gambit said:


> Sorry, but that does not compute. Russia do not have the luxury of time, and yet, Russia self restrained because Russia want to keep intact 'big cities and infrastructure' and that Russia do not want to hurt the Ukrainians too much.



Russia doesn't have the same luxury of time as US had with Iraq and Afghanistan. This is the chasm of economic, industrial, and monetary gap between Russia and USA. Russia I don't think could really afford a sustained conflict of trying to occupy and control parts of Ukraine while fighting insurgents who are well armed and constantly fed more arms. Quite unlike insurgents US fought against. At least those guys didn't get manpads and ATGMs.



gambit said:


> Then what is preventing China from helping Russia to provide overwhelming odds against the Ukrainians and their US supplied MANPADS?
> 
> If it is true that Poutine fired several generals and house arrest his FSB chief, the mental contortions people go thru to try to salvage face for the Russian military is entertainment and nothing more.



China and Russia did not supply their own modern ATMGs and manpads to Iraqi insurgents or Taliban during DS and US war in Afghanistan. I was saying that even US would have lost many more units like Russia is losing units in Ukraine if US enemies had those supplies. This has nothing to do with you saying why doesn't China supply Russia then. That would be like asking why doesn't China supply US during DS lol. Russia is in the position of US in Desert Storm. It is the one waging war and invading into and controlling/contesting.

Russia doesn't need military help. It is controlling parts of Ukraine, Zelensky wants to negotiate and settle things, Russia is not being attacked and lost no land.

You missed my point here with your reply. It has nothing to do with China. What I'm saying is when US went on adventurism, no one supplied US enemy. Here Russia is fighting a nation several times larger, much more sophisticated than Vietnam (of the Vietnam war era), and constantly supplied by others. If US was doing the war on Ukraine here instead of Russia, the USA would have lost similar numbers. Of course US would plan things differently and not endanger their equipment quite as willingly and impatiently perhaps but that's because it would have the ability to sustain this war much more than Russia has. Russia's overall GDP and productivity is less than California's.

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## Meengla

I think someone show shared Col. Macgregor video above. Here is another one. Sadly, while the Colonel is far more honest, people like Gerald Celente are no better than the likes of the anchors in CNN or Fox News.

Here is part 4 of the video.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505106134780289025

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505352145209548803

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## Madni Bappa

Titanium100 said:


> I think his Canadian-arab or something
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503761803712638984


Seems they learning it's easy to fight against unequipped or untrained American proxies in MENA. But it's much tougher to fight against an actual world power military.

A lot of Gung Ho volunteers from these Western countries also went back cuz of contract terms or seeing how tough combat is, when you can't just camp out and call air support.


----------



## tower9

serenity said:


> Russians are using a lot of PGM but maybe they don't have as many PGM as they ought to or would need to pull off as alternative to unguided bombing of massive swathes of land. This is both due to unwillingness to totally level entire cities via unguided bombing runs and because there is no need. They are doing exactly what you said, using PGMs on specific targets.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't know Ukraine Airforce is still operating. When was the last time it contested airspace control against VKS? Ghost of Kiev was made up. When did UAF and VKS do air combat? How does UAF attack Russian ground forces? They are using drones very sparingly and carefully choosing when to use and what to use against. NATO feeding intel is very valuable in this kill chain but I wouldn't call some air to ground only light drones and MALEs at best as UAF contesting air superiority with VKS.
> 
> 
> 
> Russia doesn't have the same luxury of time as US had with Iraq and Afghanistan. This is the chasm of economic, industrial, and monetary gap between Russia and USA. Russia I don't think could really afford a sustained conflict of trying to occupy and control parts of Ukraine while fighting insurgents who are well armed and constantly fed more arms. Quite unlike insurgents US fought against. At least those guys didn't get manpads and ATGMs.
> 
> 
> 
> China and Russia did not supply their own modern ATMGs and manpads to Iraqi insurgents or Taliban during DS and US war in Afghanistan. I was saying that even US would have lost many more units like Russia is losing units in Ukraine if US enemies had those supplies. This has nothing to do with you saying why doesn't China supply Russia then. That would be like asking why doesn't China supply US during DS lol. Russia is in the position of US in Desert Storm. It is the one waging war and invading into and controlling/contesting.
> 
> Russia doesn't need military help. It is controlling parts of Ukraine, Zelensky wants to negotiate and settle things, Russia is not being attacked and lost no land.
> 
> You missed my point here with your reply. It has nothing to do with China. What I'm saying is when US went on adventurism, no one supplied US enemy. Here Russia is fighting a nation several times larger, much more sophisticated than Vietnam (of the Vietnam war era), and constantly supplied by others. If US was doing the war on Ukraine here instead of Russia, the USA would have lost similar numbers. Of course US would plan things differently and not endanger their equipment quite as willingly and impatiently perhaps but that's because it would have the ability to sustain this war much more than Russia has. Russia's overall GDP and productivity is less than California's.


The US could not fight a country like Ukraine because those numbers of war dead would not be acceptable to the American public. This is why the US is reluctant to really fight against peer powers and only bombs/murders poor defenseless people in the Middle East and elsewhere in the developing world.

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## Madni Bappa

thetutle said:


> You'll be able to export it all to Africa if they have the money to pay for it. I use olive oil, haven't eaten corn in 5 years. and I have bread 2 times per week.

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## Titanium100

tower9 said:


> The US could not fight a country like Ukraine because those numbers of war dead would not be acceptable to the American public. This is why the US is reluctant to really fight against peer powers and only bombs/murders poor defenseless people in the Middle East and elsewhere in the developing world.



Do you serious believe in these US released numbers of Afghanistan? Note no country releases correct numbers in war period that is just the first thing you need to know..

Why do you think the Americans signed all their forces as contractors? The reason for that is to not be obligated to confirm deaths.

They have lost atleast 500k+ US, Western NATO including contractors but they had no legal obligation to reveal the numbers and also the numbers which they released for the Afghan security which is 70.000 is absolutely laughable atleast 800.000 to 900.000 Afghan security forces died and I know the numbers seems over the top but technically not as we are talking about a continously war for 20 years the casualities really pilled up


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505100257545400320

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505090262271504384

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## Meengla

tower9 said:


> The US could not fight a country like Ukraine because those numbers of war dead would not be acceptable to the American public. This is why the US is reluctant to really fight against peer powers and only bombs/murders poor defenseless people in the Middle East and elsewhere in the developing world.



There is a lot of truth in that!!
An example: While I think the withdrawal from Afghanistan in August 2021 was a great exercise of success, given the circumstances, especially considering the failure of the intelligence about the Taliban potentials, the death of the 13 us soldiers at the Kabul Airport in the last few days of the war may well cost the Democrats the midterm and Biden the Presidency.
In short, America cannot be a Superpower unless it is able to take losses, unless it smothers the so-called 'Wokeism', and unless it is able to stabilize the internal political divisions. A lot of times this country seems at war with itself!!!

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505382558342979585

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## Madni Bappa

NotSure said:


>


I posted his videos first on this thread. His analysis is very refreshing and thankfully is not parroting the MSM script.

I've seen all his videos in past 48 hrs. Very informative indeed.


----------



## Titanium100

Meengla said:


> There is a lot of truth in that!!
> An example: While I think the withdrawal from Afghanistan in August 2021 was a great exercise of success, given the circumstances, especially considering the failure of the intelligence about the Taliban potentials, the death of the 13 us soldiers at the Kabul Airport in the last few days of the war may well cost the Democrats the midterm and Biden the Presidency.
> In short, America cannot be a Superpower unless it is able to take losses, unless it smothers the so-called 'Wokeism', and unless it is able to stabilize the internal political divisions. A lot of times this country seems at war with itself!!!



They are capable of taking losses and in fact the only ones capable of taking losses compared to the Europeans who can't take losses but the US never speaks of it and they hide them very well and never confirm them.

The Americans are much better in taking losses compared to even the Russians and using other Americans as expendables and cannon fodders but they just never talk about it.

I know this very well because America is not a country but rather a mini-world where all people have gathered hence it is easy for him to use others as exandables there is not that passion feeling example there is an ethnic passion between two russians but not between two Americans

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## Madni Bappa

Titanium100 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505370963545767937


Even the cats are called Stepan in Ukraine. Damn 😱


----------



## Microsoft

One of NATOs main objectives has been accomplished. They needed new data on the hypersonic missiles to be able to create defenses against them in the future.
The more Russia uses them the more it loses its technological edge in the end no matter how many hundreds of billions are spent that data alone will be worth it.


----------



## Madni Bappa

Meengla said:


> Col. Macgregor will be 'cancelled' as soon as he gains some traction in media!! The modus operandi even in the 'free' countries is to tolerate as long as one doesn't become too much of a threat to the dominant discourse. *There are hundreds of billions of $$ at stake every year because of foreign or domestic policies and if people could kill for a $50 bill then they would certainly kill for a $50 billion bill*...


He will find traction in alt media. Which has millions if not 100s of thousands of followers. Likes of George Galloway, Duran etc.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505381298512216066

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## Titanium100

The Americans could have lost atleast 40-50 workers or diplomats in their embassy and consulates in Iraq for the last 2 years but none of them were ever confirmed and Trump was the only one who acted on it.. The Americans are willing to sacrifice their diplomats as cannon fodders in order to forward their political agenda's.. 

This is just the tip of the iceberg you would be shocked if I told you more how much they are willing to sacrifice cannon fodders


----------



## Battlion25

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505401853491789827


----------



## jamahir

Meengla said:


> You certainly have a distinct, and refreshing take on the current events! You are sort of like @jamahir of Greece!



Thanks.


----------



## The SC

News circulating about the extermination of an entire battalion of the Ukrainian army in the city of Mykolaiv by aerial bombardment of 3 advanced Russian Sukhoi Su-35 fighter jets.

Ukrainian sources talk about targeting a building housing 200 Ukrainian soldiers and dozens of military vehicles with a number of missiles and bombs. She said that those forces were in a state of sleep and reassurance.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505179274713747469
Russia accused Ukraine of continuing to bomb civilian areas of the cities it lost to Russia with Tochka U tactical ballistic missiles.

Today, one of these missiles was intercepted in the port of Berdyansk, which the Ukrainian forces had previously left without a fight.

The following video shows two Ukrainian Tochka U systems apparently firing two missiles towards Donetsk.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505177799522492417
Sources in Donetsk reported that the missile attack with Tochka-U ballistic missiles left more than 15 people dead on a residential neighborhood near the city center.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505182857333030916

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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> Agreed. The money lies in the West and their allies, including those in the Middle East. China is the only non-member of that group.
> As of now too early to say if the global order established since WW 2 is changing but we sure are observing something huge. The Eurasian continent, which is the historic seat of the human activities and power, is going through major changes as we write these lines. I don't see how the old order will survive as was established since WW 2.


Oh yes. The world order is dead. Even Biden said if this invasion goes ahead “it will change the world”. 

And it will. The only chance we have for the world not to go down that new path is a quick overthrow of the Moscow regime. Which is very very unlikely. 

Short or that, we will see 2 blocs of nations. The authorian ones and the democratic ones. One led by Russia one led by the west. The new told order will probably see them not being able to read with one another. Trade with the wrong side will be seen as an act of hostility and an unfair trade advantage. America will say, you can’t export your goods to America becaue they are being subsidised by cheap Russian oil etc. rightly or wrongly this will be the norm.

There will be a lot of regime change around the world where counties run to one side or another. 

If this scenario unfolds. Then America will have to drop support for tyrants it supports and effect regime change in the Persian gulf and Egypt. If they don’t, then nothing much changes. It’s the Russian empire changing regime in Ukraine like America changes regime everywhere else.

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## Clutch

thetutle said:


> The authorian ones and the democratic one



Democratic ones???.... Really?... Please enlighten us with your wisdom about the "democratic" ones?

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## jamahir

Titanium100 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505370963545767937



Good that Stepan is safe but unfortunate name for a cat since that name is of Stepan Bandera, a Nazi.

I hope that no cat in Ukraine is harmed in this war.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505100257545400320



The British War Ministry ( as it should be called instead of Ministry of Defense ) will not talk about the Americans using thermobaric bombs in Iraq and Afghanistan in recent history.

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## thetutle

Clutch said:


> Democratic ones???.... Really?... Please enlighten us with your wisdom about the "democratic" ones?


Some counties will always be on the border line. But if you can’t tell which is which, it means you probably live in an authoritarian one. 

Another way to tell them apart is to look where the refugees are risking their life to get to. Those are the liberal democracies. 

Then there are those countries that are moving towards liberal democracy. Those will be in the democratic camp. Ukraine is one of those. Pakistan too. Turkey too.


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## jamahir

thetutle said:


> Some counties will always be on the border line. But if you can’t tell which is which, it means you probably live in an authoritarian one.
> 
> Another way to tell them apart is to look where the refugees are risking their life to get to. Those are the liberal democracies.
> 
> Then there are those countries that are moving towards liberal democracy. Those will be in the democratic camp. Ukraine is one of those. Pakistan too. Turkey too.



How are you saying that Britain, USA, India, Pakistan, France etc are democracies ?


----------



## Apollon

Wood said:


> Do opposition parties in Greece support Putin's Russia?



Well you have a 5th column in evry country

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## Titanium100

Apollon said:


> Well you have a 5th column in evry country



Foinikas is definitely a 5ft column

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## jamahir

Titanium100 said:


> Foinikas is definitely a 5ft column



LOL, so if @Foinikas doesn't agree with NATO imperialism / crimes he is a criminal ?


----------



## Apollon

reflecthofgeismar said:


> Dude, just stop.
> You were always this conserative type (which is fine) but now you are completely on the hypocritical political line of the West.
> You don't need to be a Russian coc*su*ker but pls, change your view to a realistic one.
> And always these attacks against Foinikas, he is one of the really objective/neutral members in this forum.
> Foinikas is a good European, you are hateful/childish in your views. You are just the exact 1to1 copy to "Putin slaves", only other side of the coin.
> You remember me always on the young lad in the BF V campaign.
> 
> 
> 
> Foinikas would be just a normal dude doing his duty (like most ordinary folks), you are fanatic bc you are young and don't see the things as they are.
> Pls, stop it. Or are you a troll?



You know what i dont understand? When has being conservative being morphed into being a putinist? Guess what? Conservative European means for me to not bow towards a primitive and savage Russia and yes, Russia is primitive for me and always has been. 

I see Putins war as test run since he wants all of Europe. He openly said so several times. We can kill his pathetic excuse of a country now before its too late and i fully support that.

I believe i see the things very clearly.



jamahir said:


> LOL, so if @Foinikas doesn't agree with NATO imperialism / crimes he is a criminal ?



What kind of imperislsm is it when all members come from free will to escape russian agression? Explain please.


----------



## Titanium100

jamahir said:


> LOL, so if @Foinikas doesn't agree with NATO imperialism / crimes he is a criminal ?



His kinda of brain dead... His the type of guy whos willing to take 100 shoots that could end him in order to get one shoot at Turkey.. His willing to jeopardize his country policies and trade included


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## Valar.




----------



## Clutch

Madni Bappa said:


> I posted his videos first on this thread. His analysis is very refreshing and thankfully is not parroting the MSM script.
> 
> I've seen all his videos in past 48 hrs. Very informative indeed.



Haven't listened to Gereld Celente in over 5 to 6 years.... Thanks for reminding me of him...



thetutle said:


> it means you probably live in an authoritarian one.



Wrong... Canuckistan.

If you still believe along such naive binary terms .. I will assume you are still a child or child like... And leave it at that....

Lol at you world = Authoritarian vs. Democratic


----------



## Apollon

Titanium100 said:


> His kinda of brain dead



No, he is just a special kind of people in Greece who support anything what they think is "orthodox people". Putin could rip a babies head off live on TV and those people would ignore it.

They also ignore that Russia has never done a shit for Greece and betrayed us left and right in history. Its quite sad actually. But they have no political power in Greece. You can laugh about them, pity them or whatever at the end of the day they can do no harm, beside ruining our image in the world.



Valar. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505193008181903365



Oh its our fault now too that african countries do retarded contracts with Russia regarding wheat? They are grown up people. They will figure something out. Not our problem.


----------



## tower9

Apollon said:


> No, he is just a special kind of people in Greece who support anything what they think is "orthodox people". Putin could rip a babies head off live on TV and those people would ignore it.
> 
> They also ignore that Russia has never done a shit for Greece and betrayed us left and right in history. Its quite sad actually. But they have no political power in Greece. You can laugh about them, pity them or whatever at the end of the day they can do no harm, beside ruining our image in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh its our fault now too that african countries do retarded contracts with Russia regarding wheat? They are grown up people. They will figure something out. Not our problem.



Boy, you sure change your tune pretty fast. I recall months ago, you used to call Russia your historic brother. But now they are rubbish and were never any good? 

To be quite honest, from my experience, your extreme neoliberal pro-atlanticist stance is at odds from many Greek people I've met. Foinikas' stance is probably more in line with many Greeks than yours, even though he might still be a minority. Maybe it's because you live in a rich bubble, who knows.

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## jamahir

Titanium100 said:


> His kinda of brain dead... His the type of guy whos willing to take 100 shoots that could end him in order to get one shoot at Turkey.. His willing to jeopardize his country policies and trade included



I live in India so should I stop propagating Communism, unity of human kind, abolition of militaries, proposing of political settlements for issues like Kashmir, Korea and Palestine, and start accepting the anti-human, anti-scientific and disharmonious policies of the current Indian government ? Should I discard the rationality that Nature has given me ?



Apollon said:


> Putin could rip a babies head off live on TV and those people would ignore it.



Yeah and Saddam dipped his enemies in acid tanks and Gaddafi gave viagra to his soldiers to rape females. Yes, @Foinikas should simply ignore such nonsense.


----------



## Viet

dBSPL said:


> Putin just tried to prevent the outbreak of a world war. But he failed to foresee the trap of getting (UK-US coordinated) Russia into the swamp. Among the global military powers in the world, the only non-globalist leader is Putin. Russia's mistakes, failures are another story, but I see that Putin's complete demonization is just unfair and western-biased point of view.


what a nonsense
Russia is the aggressor.
Putin is a warmonger.
That’s a fact nobody can deny.
Nobody else except Putin pushes Russia to war.

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## Madni Bappa

Clutch said:


> Haven't listened to Gereld Celente in over 5 to 6 years.... Thanks for reminding me of him...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong... Canuckistan.
> 
> If you still believe along such naive binary terms .. I will assume you are still a child or child like... And leave it at that....
> 
> Lol at you world = Authoritarian vs. Democratic


No I was talking about Colonel Macgregor


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> I live in India so should I stop propagating Communism, unity of human kind, abolition of militaries, proposing of political settlements for issues like Kashmir, Korea and Palestine, and start accepting the anti-human, anti-scientific and disharmonious policies of the current Indian government ? Should I discard the rationality that Nature has given me ?
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah and Saddam dipped his enemies in acid tanks and Gaddafi gave viagra to his soldiers to rape females. Yes, @Foinikas should simply ignore such nonsense.



Putins hidden wife and children are in Switzerland btw. Just you know. Will be interesting to see his reaction when they are in custody.

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## Viet

Valar. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505193008181903365


Half of East Africa will go hungry to bed. That will be a lost decade lost generation. Maybe a coincidence, chinese have amassed grains before the war. Comrade Putin probably notified China about his war plan. Now they can sell the grains with big profit to the poor in Africa.


----------



## Madni Bappa

The SC said:


> News circulating about the extermination of an entire battalion of the Ukrainian army in the city of Mykolaiv by aerial bombardment of 3 advanced Russian Sukhoi Su-35 fighter jets.
> 
> Ukrainian sources talk about targeting a building housing 200 Ukrainian soldiers and dozens of military vehicles with a number of missiles and bombs. She said that those forces were in a state of sleep and reassurance.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505179274713747469
> Russia accused Ukraine of continuing to bomb civilian areas of the cities it lost to Russia with Tochka U tactical ballistic missiles.
> 
> Today, one of these missiles was intercepted in the port of Berdyansk, which the Ukrainian forces had previously left without a fight.
> 
> The following video shows two Ukrainian Tochka U systems apparently firing two missiles towards Donetsk.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505177799522492417
> Sources in Donetsk reported that the missile attack with Tochka-U ballistic missiles left more than 15 people dead on a residential neighborhood near the city center.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505182857333030916


Scorched earth just to win on Twitter and TikTok???


----------



## Apollon

Former primeminister of Russia Michail Kassjanow says that Putin is still shocked by the EU sanctions. Russian advisors expected that the EU would act indifferent towards the russian war against Ukraine. Putin believed that the german change in government and french election distract the block. Thats also the reason why no counter sanctions were issued, putin simply was unprepared of that and the EU was not on his game.

The EU sanctions have devastating effects. 380 billion $ from russia taken away and the assets of his oligarchs reduced to nothing. That switzerland followed EU in this was also not on his agenda.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505247793996341251

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Putins hidden wife and children are in Switzerland btw. Just you know. Will be interesting to see his reaction when they are in custody.



Yesterday you wanted to confiscate Russian yachts and today you want to take into custody Putin's family. I must inform you that in 2007 the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission issued an arrest warrant against George Bush jr and Tony B'liar for war crimes in Iraq. Other than them Obomba, Sarkozy and Cameron also should be arrested by Libyans, Syrians and Venezuelans for launching illegal regime-change war, genocide and sabotage and subversion.


----------



## jamahir

Titanium100 said:


> Indians outdoing themselves.. This is acting as if he was dropped on his head as an infant. Sorry for saying this but you are one of the most garbage posters on this boards



Sure because you and your alt account @Battlion25 are the geniuses on the forum who have produced marvelous ideas for peace among humanity, on how societies should be governed politically and socio-economically and you are students of past and present philosophers and revolutionaries.


----------



## WotTen

Apollon said:


> Putins hidden wife and children are in Switzerland btw. Just you know. Will be interesting to see his reaction when they are in custody.



Exactly what crime have his wife and kids committed that they should be arrested?


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> What do you think of the 15,000 UA troop surrounded in Mariupol? What re their chances? or continuing to fight without ressupy? of breaking out? or surviving? Ive seen 10,000 Bosnian troops surrounded and isolated for 3 years, but they held out in the end. It was very hard but they held out.
> 
> What are their chances?


I am seeing some heroic, but then ultimately when Russian throw enough people and hardware in it, they will overwhelm the defender. 

Mariupol is the key strategic city, basically taking Mariupol will allow the Russian to flank the Ukrainian troop that was in the Donbas region. or at the original frontline. Russia *MUST *take Mariupol to either force the Ukrainian to withdraw their entire Eastern Flank back toward Dnieper river or risk having them cut off and isolated. 

Russian have to know this, and that would be their priority number 1 to take the city, the thing is, there are currently not enough troop to take Mariupol at this moment, and it still favor the defender, the problem is, the defender is cut off, while the attacker can resupply. Which mean if and when the attacker have build up enough strength, they will take Mariupol. 

That can be a few days, or a few weeks top, I doubt that would take months. On the other hand, Mariupol held out for 25 days, which considering they are 10 mile from the frontline, they should have felt on day 1 when the Russian attacked.


----------



## jamahir

WotTen said:


> Exactly what crime have his wife and kids committed that they should be arrested?



The crime of continuing to be associated with a person who rejects NATO imperialism.



Titanium100 said:


> Time to deploy the Turkish armed forces to Ukraine's western parts to secure an area for them... Create a humantarian area where they survive..



LOL, yesterday you posted a Taliban fatso and today Erdogan's boys.

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## ProudPak

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505247793996341251


More Ukrainian drama. Loool

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## Titanium100

Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505272738948263945

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## Battlion25

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505255875992338432


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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> When was *I* ever a cow vigilante ? Have you ever read my 24,650+ posts ? And yes, me being a Communist Muslim have the utmost regard for cats ( not only my personal regard but you should also read of Hazrat Muhammad's love for cats and of other early Muslims ) and for humans.
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday you wanted to confiscate Russian yachts and today you want to take into custody Putin's family. I must inform you that in 2007 the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission issued an arrest warrant against George Bush jr and Tony B'liar for war crimes in Iraq. Other than them Obomba, Sarkozy and Cameron also should be arrested by Libyans, Syrians and Venezuelans for launching illegal regime-change war, genocide and sabotage and subversion.



Well its obvious that putins family wont leave here so easily. They already are basicly prisoners. They should be hold accountable for his crimes.

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Well its obvious that putins family wont leave here so easily. They already are basicly prisoners. They should be hold accountable for his crimes.



What crimes ?

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## Apollon

WotTen said:


> Exactly what crime have his wife and kids committed that they should be arrested?



What crimes had the wife and children of persian king Darius III when Alexander captured them? They are a war trophy and can be useful in negotiations. Its war and i think we should use evry leverage we have.


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> What crimes had the wife and children of persian king Darius III when Alexander captured them? They are a war trophy and can be useful in negotiations. Its war and i think we should use evry leverage we have.



You are 20 years old and have the hate of a mindless young fanatic. We have many such people in India. I think time will cure you.

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> You mean like many here? At least in their minds, anyway.


I think most people here don't even know which hole is the bullet gonna come out from.........


----------



## Brainsucker

jhungary said:


> I am seeing some heroic, but then ultimately when Russian throw enough people and hardware in it, they will overwhelm the defender.
> 
> Mariupol is the key strategic city, basically taking Mariupol will allow the Russian to flank the Ukrainian troop that was in the Donbas region. or at the original frontline. Russia *MUST *take Mariupol to either force the Ukrainian to withdraw their entire Eastern Flank back toward Dnieper river or risk having them cut off and isolated.
> 
> Russian have to know this, and that would be their priority number 1 to take the city, the thing is, there are currently not enough troop to take Mariupol at this moment, and it still favor the defender, the problem is, the defender is cut off, while the attacker can resupply. Which mean if and when the attacker have build up enough strength, they will take Mariupol.
> 
> That can be a few days, or a few weeks top, I doubt that would take months. On the other hand, Mariupol held out for 25 days, which considering they are 10 mile from the frontline, they should have felt on day 1 when the Russian attacked.



Interesting. But why Mariupol? They have already taken some Land to the west of Mariupol. Even if they left Mariupol alone and move northward, they already can flank the Ukraine Eastern Front. The problem is that Ukraine Eastern Front also update their perimeter to prevent the flanker to surround their position.


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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> You are 20 years old and have the hate of a mindless young fanatic. We have many such people in India. I think time will cure you.



No i believe your problem is simply that you hate european people and even want take the right away from us to defend ourself. You talk about NATO imperialism. What kind of imperialism is it, when each member is in NATO out of free will and the very reason is protection against Russian agression?

Whats alternative to NATO? Becoming vasalls of Russian led Eurasian Empire? The only alternative to NATO would be if EU builds up a nuclear strike force based on France but much bigger. So far NATO is the best way to keep Europe secure.

On a sidenote you say nothing against russian imperialism.

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## jhungary

tower9 said:


> Russia still has plenty of firepower and has a full military industrial supply chain so they can easily make more bombs and missiles if necessary. People here buying into the CNN propaganda are fucking delusional as usual.


It's one thing the Russia have more power, it's a whole other thing they can bring it to bear.

There is a problem for Troop rotation. In a perfect world, you would want a certain number of troop that is at Ready to deploy, and there are troop you CAN Deploy in any moment, and then there are troop you cannot deploy.

Things is, unlike the US, we have a National Guard Structure, which mean the "Standing Army" (the 1,2,3,4, 25, 82,101 division plus assorted troop) is always forward deployable. And this will not take away the combat power for US to defend its own land.

IN war time setting tho, that would complicate a bit, because you have incoming rotation and outgoing rotation, and the incoming rotation will not be active at all because they just come back from the warzone. Which mean there are certain downtime that incoming rotation have to go thru before they can be reactivate again. And the outgoing rotation is also non-deployable. This is the same as equipment.

So yes, theoretically, you can replace equipment that you used with your deployed troop, but that will not be fill up in time. That depends on the wartime economy. A tank need at leas 6 months to build, a fighter jet take at least 10 months, troop training take at least 3 to 4 months, so for the replacement, you are going to have to do without until new equipment is made, but the war will not wait for you to refill your stock, which is why if you are Russia, you will have a problem right now.

The problem is, should I continue to deplete my stock to sustain the war effort, or should I replace them when the new stuff is being made. If they choose option 1. That open up themselves in a strategic level, if they choose option 2, then you will have to do without the replacement stuff for your second rotation, thus limited your firepower.

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> No i believe your problem is simply that you hate european people and even want take the right away from us to defend ourself.



1. Which post of mine suggested to you that I hate the European people ? For example I don't hate the lovely British journalist Lizzie Phelan who did such wonderful work about the Libya and Syria wars right from when they started :






2. What do you as a Westerner want to defend against ?



Apollon said:


> You talk about NATO imperialism. What kind of imperialism is it, when each member is in NATO out of free will and the very reason is protection against Russian agression?



So all those regime-change attempts and wars against non-NATO countries in the last seven decades, what were they for ?



Apollon said:


> Whats alternative to NATO? Becoming vasalls of Russian led Eurasian Empire? The only alternative to NATO would be if EU builds up a nuclear strike force based on France but much bigger. So far NATO is the best way to keep Europe secure.
> 
> On a sidenote you say nothing against russian imperialism.



Can you tell me what will be the form of this Russia-led Eurasian empire ?


----------



## Battlion25

Apollon said:


> No i believe your problem is simply that you hate european people and even want take the right away from us to defend ourself. You talk about NATO imperialism. What kind of imperialism is it, when each member is in NATO out of free will and the very reason is protection against Russian agression?
> 
> Whats alternative to NATO? Becoming vasalls of Russian led Eurasian Empire? The only alternative to NATO would be if EU builds up a nuclear strike force based on France but much bigger. So far NATO is the best way to keep Europe secure.
> 
> On a sidenote you say nothing against russian imperialism.



I agree with you and he has controversial views on life in general

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Forpost drone attacking ground targets


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505449546926723072


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## jamahir

Battlion25 said:


> I agree with you and he has controversial views on life in general



Nothing controversial about my views on life in general. I am a simple person and just say that in human affairs and in our interaction with the natural we should be as simple and rational as possible.


----------



## LeGenD

tower9 said:


> That is why I think it is insane the amount of people who want NATO to intervene directly against Russia. They think we are fighting the typical rump states and insurgents that the US has been fighting, instead we are fighting a great power that has advanced weaponry, nuclear weapons and hypersonic missiles.
> 
> These fighters going in bought the baloney that the Russians were incompetent and they thought they were going to play Rambo, saving Ukraine. Instead, they saw with their own eyes what it was like fighting a great power with a massive arsenal, seeing their recently acquainted friends blown to pieces, an arm there, a head there, in the matter of seconds. That probably made this shit all too real and that's why a lot of the foreign legion are tripping over themselves trying to get out knowing that they would be nothing but cannon fodder.


Nobody is suggesting counter-invasion of Russia but Ukraine can be secured if necessary. A2/AD assets can be deployed at the border of Ukraine in Poland and No Fly Zone can be established over Ukranian airspace. NATO is much better armed than Russia in fact.

For perspective, NATO did not allow Russia and its allies to bomb YPG in Syria. This was a red line.

That line was crossed once and Russia was stopped in its tracks:









‘The Battle of Khasham’ saw US troops rout Russian mercenaries in Syria


It was determined to conduct operations that would bring the government forces of Bashar al-Asad to heel at the Battle of Khasham.




www.wearethemighty.com













How a 4-Hour Battle Between Russian Mercenaries and U.S. Commandos Unfolded in Syria (Published 2018)


Interviews and newly obtained documents provide the Pentagon’s first public on-the-ground accounting of one of the bloodiest battles the military has faced in Syria since deploying to fight ISIS.




www.nytimes.com













American General In Syria Confirms US Forces Killed Hundreds Of Russians In Massive Battle


US Army Brigadier General Jonathan Braga confirms American troops killed hundreds of Russians in one battle and worried it could have escalated.




www.thedrive.com





Joe Biden is old and spent, however. Do not expect much from him in regards to Ukraine.

You should rest easy.



tower9 said:


> Russia still has plenty of firepower and has a full military industrial supply chain so they can easily make more bombs and missiles if necessary. People here buying into the CNN propaganda are fucking delusional as usual.


Russian *cannot* sustain a prolonged war in Ukraine due to its degrading economic situation. Putin administration is seeking desired results in Ukraine at earliest.

Russian forces are doing whatever they can to produce desired results in Ukraine at earliest; Russian forces have used highest count of cruise missiles and ballistic missiles to strike at high value and distant targets across Ukraine, and dispatched over 200,000 troops and irregulars to Ukraine to take as much ground as possible.

Ultimate objective is to take Kyiv by force and execute regime change if possible.

Let us see.



tower9 said:


> The US could not fight a country like Ukraine because those numbers of war dead would not be acceptable to the American public. This is why the US is reluctant to really fight against peer powers and only bombs/murders poor defenseless people in the Middle East and elsewhere in the developing world.


You are in dire need of history lessons.

USA has fought a war with big powers and near-peer adversaries throughout its history.

- British Empire in Colonial times
- Spanish Empire in Colonial times
- Germany in World War 1
- Germany in World War 2
- Japan in World War 2
- North Korea in early 1950s
- Vietcong in the 1960s
- Iraq in 1991
- Yugoslavia in 1999

War On Terror was relatively different in its conduct - it was aimed to dismantle Al-Qaeda Networks around the world in response to 9/11, and this objective was achieved in the Middle East as well as in Af-Pak region. NATO invaded, occupied and changed the political landscape of Iraq in the mix. NATO also changed the political landscape of Libya in the mix.

Do you think modern Russia can replicate anything close to War On Terror on scale and scope? Not even remotely close.

Modern Russia has not fought a near-peer adversary in fact:

- Chechnya in the 1990s
- Georgia in 2008
- FSA in a war-torn and compromised Syria in the 2010s
- Ukraine in 2022

Russian military performance in Ukraine has shown the limits of its warfighting capability and capacity.









Russia’s Involvement In Syria Proves That It's Far Behind The Western World


Russia has made a lot of noise about the modern weapons it has used during combat in Syria and how effective these new weapons are. Fresh Su-34 attack jets scream through the skies, while the latest in small arms test their mettle. But the reality is most of what Russia has used is not as shiny...




jalopnik.com





USA, UK and Germany have created military doctrines in fact. Others are followers.

Iraq created insurgency doctrine on the other hand. Afghan Taliban also adopted Iraqi insurgency tactics.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505452721650139136


----------



## kingQamaR

It's time the West realised that India is fickle and two faced. Always were and always will be. China at least has been consistent in revealing its loathing and contempt of us in the West.

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## jhungary

Brainsucker said:


> Interesting. But why Mariupol? They have already taken some Land to the west of Mariupol. Even if they left Mariupol alone and move northward, they already can flank the Ukraine Eastern Front. The problem is that Ukraine Eastern Front also update their perimeter to prevent the flanker to surround their position.


Mariupol is the what we called "Convergent" between Russian Southern Force (From Crimea - Red), Russian Northern Force (From Kharkiv - Yellow) and Separatist Troop from the East (Green)






At this point majority of the Russian troop are pinned in Mariupol, they can by-pass it but it they would have to leave troop to pin Mariupol Defender in place, otherwise they will just breakout and hammer Russian rear. Which mean at this point the Russia troop so sorely needed to crush the blue line (The 6 Ukrainian Battalion position at the pre-war demarcation line ) is stuck in Mariupol they cant move until the city is taken.

Once the city is taken, then it free up troops on 3 fronts. and it will allow the Russian freedom of movement to either crush the Blue Line above Mariupol, or go North and take Kharkiv or Go West to try and take Dnipro (Probably not going to do that, if it was me, i will go after the 6 Battalions)

Which mean if I am Ukrainian defence. If I lost Mariupol, that comes a question would I want to leave that blue line (in black circle) to stay there, and potential get crushed by a double envelopment. Or should I withdraw them and put them along the defensive line across the river with the Southern Defender (The Red Circle) If I do that, then I will basically leave the Entire South East open to the Russian, if I don't do that, I risk my troop getting defeat in detail because Russia is going to overwhelm all the position 1 by 1 by local superiority.





That is why Ukrainian is counter attacking Kherson, because if they manage to retake Kherson, this will force Russian to divert some troop toward the region because it would be a free ride toward Crimea, where their supply is based) It's really depends on whether or not Ukrainian retake Kherson first or Mariupol fall first.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

TOS-1A artillery usage in Mariupol battle


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505453645436960777


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## Battlion25

jhungary said:


> Mariupol is the what we called "Convergent" between Russian Southern Force (From Crimea), Russian Northern Force (From Kharkiv) and Separatist Troop from the East
> 
> View attachment 825674
> 
> 
> At this point majority of the Russian troop are pinned in Mariupol, they can by-pass it but it they would have to leave troop to pin Mariupol Defender in place, otherwise they will just breakout and hammer Russian rear. Which mean at this point the Russia troop so sorely needed to crush the blue line (The 6 Ukrainian Battalion position at the pre-war demarcation line ) is stuck in Mariupol they cant move until the city is taken.
> 
> Once the city is taken, then it free up troops on 3 fronts. and it will allow the Russian freedom of movement to either crush the Blue Line above Mariupol, or go North and take Kharkiv or Go West to try and take Dnipro (Probably not going to do that, if it was me, i will go after the 6 Battalions)
> 
> Which mean if I am Ukrainian defence. If I lost Mariupol, that comes a question would I want to leave that blue line (in black circle) to stay there, and potential get crushed by a double envelopment. Or should I withdraw them and put them along the defensive line across the river with the Southern Defender (The Red Circle) If I do that, then I will basically leave the Entire South East open to the Russian, if I don't do that, I risk my troop getting defeat in detail because Russia is going to overwhelm all the position 1 by 1 by local superiority.
> View attachment 825679



I think they will leave that line and retreat towards kiev


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

LeGenD said:


> A2/AD assets can be deployed at the border of Ukraine in Poland and No Fly Zone can be established over Ukranian airspace.



If they do that then Russia will have to resort to exclusively Iskander, Kh-101, Kalibr, Kinzhal strikes from Russia and Belarus soil and force Ukraine to surrender. It will lead to far more civilian casualties. Ukraine is better off without an American No Fly Zone.


----------



## jhungary

Battlion25 said:


> I think they will leave that line and retreat towards kiev


Well, that would be the logical choice if they lost Mariupol before their counter offensive in Kherson take hold,


----------



## WotTen

LeGenD said:


> USA has fought a war with big powers and near-peer adversaries throughout its history.
> 
> - British Empire in Colonial times
> - Spanish Empire in Colonial times
> - Germany in World War 1
> - Germany in World War 2
> - Japan in World War 2
> - North Korea in early 1950s
> - Vietcong in the 1960s
> - Iraq in 1991
> - Yugoslavia in 1999



Other than colonial times, was the US mainland ever in credible danger in any of these wars?


----------



## leviathan

Battlion25 said:


> I think they will leave that line and retreat towards kiev


They can't! Once they are on open road. Russia airforce will bomb them to dust. Unless you abandon all equipment and running on food in small number.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505319302794301451

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> 1. Which post of mine suggested to you that I hate the European people ? For example I don't hate the lovely British journalist Lizzie Phelan who did such wonderful work about the Libya and Syria wars right from when they started :
> View attachment 825672
> 
> 
> 2. What do you as a Westerner want to defend against ?
> 
> 
> 
> So all those regime-change attempts and wars against non-NATO countries in the last seven decades, what were they for ?
> 
> 
> 
> Can you tell me what will be the form of this Russia-led Eurasian empire ?



You dont get it, its propably too complex to you. Putin said it clearly. He first wanted entire eastern europe under russian opression. After USA leave NATO and Europe is left with only 300 french nukes, entire Europe would fall under russian hegemony. Sorry but Europe wont bow to Russia and NATO is the most important key for our security. 

What is important now, is to destroy evry russian presence in europe. Economy, trade, sport, culture and thats exactly whats done. Putin is like hitler and its time to kill them off before they can attack us.

On a sidenote, i give a shit about libya, syria or takatuka land. I only care about Europe.

Putin made NATO more powerful than ever before. For that i have to thank this clown. He achieved not one of his goals and completly miscalculated. Russian economy wiped out, NATO stronger than ever before and for first time ever 100.000 NATO soldiers in Baltics, Poland, Slovenia and Romania. Finland will join NATO and Sweden propably too. In Ukraine his army is exposed as junk troop and all he gets there is dead land.

And it gets worse for the botox kremlin. EU head von der Leyen said there wont be any negotiations with Putins regime. He is a untrustworthy liar. So sanctions stay for eternity. He lost Europe, evrything what generations of russian leaders build up, he threw into the toilet. The entire pipeline system is obsolete by 2023, the tech, science and economic cooperation dead. Russian scientists, students and workers get expelled from Europe. Russians are banned from all sport events. Russian artists thrown out of Europe, fired and hunted out.

Russian opera singers like Netrebko got all contracts terminated and basicly a kick in their a**, thrown out like a cheap redlight district actress. 

380 billion € assets of russian central bank taken, beside that all property of russian elites taken. Abramowitch now had to run away like a beaten dog and could not even afford paying a cleaning women anymore. There is a reason why russian elites all lived in Europe and not in that grey, abysmal shithole Russia. They are now stuck in Russia and as spains primeminister said, they can now sail in the Barrentsea. Russian aviation...dead. Russian trains build by german siemens...dead. 

And all that is just the beginning. In Germany all bank accounts of people with russian passports got frozen. That means even poor ones dont even get welfare money anymore. Russians get no treatment in hospitals, get no jobs, are kicked out of schools, universities and sport clubs. 

We had a russian in our class and most in my class including me said that either he gets out or we wont attend class. Guess what? He was away "ill" since thursday.

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## Ich

Brainsucker said:


> Interesting. But why Mariupol? They have already taken some Land to the west of Mariupol. Even if they left Mariupol alone and move northward, they already can flank the Ukraine Eastern Front. The problem is that Ukraine Eastern Front also update their perimeter to prevent the flanker to surround their position.



Mariupol is needed as seaharbor for the independend Donetzk and Luhansk. So it is one of the main goals of the russian offensive with high priority.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505116621920215043


----------



## WotTen

Apollon said:


> In Germany [...] Russians get no treatment in hospitals,
> [...]
> We had a russian in our class and most in my class including me said that either he gets out or we wont attend class. Guess what? He was away "ill" since thursday.



OK, now I am convinced you are posting from a mental hospital ward.

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## Apollon

Ich said:


> Mariupol is needed as seaharbor for the independend Donetzk and Luhansk. So it is one of the main goals of the russian offensive with high priority.



What value has a sea harbor when we make donetzk wnd luhansk a constant war zone? Putins entire plan was to have peace and minimal damage within a few days. By destroying evrything there we denie him that. Scorched earth tactics are best option for that.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505336621058740224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505192583886163972


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## Apollon

WotTen said:


> OK, now I am convinced you are posting from a mental hospital ward.



Your opinion is pretty worthless regarding that. Nobody can force us to sit next to a russian in class, right? The fact he called ill and disappeared shows that our pressure worked. 

We are at a war and i dont see how letting enemies with us helps in any way. 

You are free in your opinion, im free in mine. I will not sit with enemies in vlass and i wont compete in sport with them. Thats what i decided for myself.


----------



## LeGenD

Tai Hai Chen said:


> If they do that then Russia will have to resort to exclusively Iskander, Kh-101, Kalibr, Kinzhal strikes from Russia and Belarus soil and force Ukraine to surrender. It will lead to far more civilian casualties. Ukraine is better off without an American No Fly Zone.


Russians are already using these standoff munitions in Ukraine.









These Are The Standoff Missiles Russia Used To Open Its War Against Ukraine


Russia used its growing arsenal of precision standoff missiles to hit key targets at the start of its invasion of Ukraine.




www.thedrive.com













Russia’s Use Of Iskander Ballistic Missiles In Ukraine Exposes Secret Decoy Capability


The novel decoy, ejected from the base of the missile, is designed to confuse hostile radar and interceptor missiles.




www.thedrive.com





A2/AD assets such as PAC-3 and THAAD are needed to intercept Russian cruise and ballistic missiles in Ukraine. 

USAF can also help intercept them.


----------



## Ich

WotTen said:


> OK, now I am convinced you are posting from a mental hospital ward.


Well, this is is reality in Germany. Most of the germans are mentally sick, doing all what the criminal gov told them. If you do not fit in the corridor the gov provided, then you find yourself in a position like a Jew in the third Reich.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505442209667059716

Reactions: Wow Wow:
2 | Sad Sad:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505233197856133131


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

LeGenD said:


> Russians are already using these standoff munitions in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These Are The Standoff Missiles Russia Used To Open Its War Against Ukraine
> 
> 
> Russia used its growing arsenal of precision standoff missiles to hit key targets at the start of its invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia’s Use Of Iskander Ballistic Missiles In Ukraine Exposes Secret Decoy Capability
> 
> 
> The novel decoy, ejected from the base of the missile, is designed to confuse hostile radar and interceptor missiles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A2/AD assets such as PAC-3 and THAAD are needed to intercept Russian cruise and ballistic missiles in Ukraine.
> 
> USAF can also help intercept them.



It's near impossible to shoot down Iskander, Kh-101, Kalibr, Kinzhal. Even if possible, it is very expensive to do so.

Americans don't care about Saudis slaughtering Yemenis with bombs. They sure don't care about Russians slaughtering Ukrainians with bombs out of compassion. If they care, it's only because of dick measuring contest with Russians, not because of compassion.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505467736591380481

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505467992464887808


----------



## IblinI

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505442209667059716


@Apollon that is literally you in the video, under age radical teen.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Kharkiv


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505345170971242498


----------



## Viet

Apollon said:


> You dont get it, its propably too complex to you. Putin said it clearly. He first wanted entire eastern europe under russian opression. After USA leave NATO and Europe is left with only 300 french nukes, entire Europe would fall under russian hegemony. Sorry but Europe wont bow to Russia and NATO is the most important key for our security.
> 
> What is important now, is to destroy evry russian presence in europe. Economy, trade, sport, culture and thats exactly whats done. Putin is like hitler and its time to kill them off before they can attack us.
> 
> On a sidenote, i give a shit about libya, syria or takatuka land. I only care about Europe.
> 
> Putin made NATO more powerful than ever before. For that i have to thank this clown. He achieved not one of his goals and completly miscalculated. Russian economy wiped out, NATO stronger than ever before and for first time ever 100.000 NATO soldiers in Baltics, Poland, Slovenia and Romania. Finland will join NATO and Sweden propably too. In Ukraine his army is exposed as junk troop and all he gets there is dead land.
> 
> And it gets worse for the botox kremlin. EU head von der Leyen said there wont be any negotiations with Putins regime. He is a untrustworthy liar. So sanctions stay for eternity. He lost Europe, evrything what generations of russian leaders build up, he threw into the toilet. The entire pipeline system is obsolete by 2023, the tech, science and economic cooperation dead. Russian scientists, students and workers get expelled from Europe. Russians are banned from all sport events. Russian artists thrown out of Europe, fired and hunted out.
> 
> Russian opera singers like Netrebko got all contracts terminated and basicly a kick in their a**, thrown out like a cheap redlight district actress.
> 
> 380 billion € assets of russian central bank taken, beside that all property of russian elites taken. Abramowitch now had to run away like a beaten dog and could not even afford paying a cleaning women anymore. There is a reason why russian elites all lived in Europe and not in that grey, abysmal shithole Russia. They are now stuck in Russia and as spains primeminister said, they can now sail in the Barrentsea. Russian aviation...dead. Russian trains build by german siemens...dead.
> 
> And all that is just the beginning. In Germany all bank accounts of people with russian passports got frozen. That means even poor ones dont even get welfare money anymore. Russians get no treatment in hospitals, get no jobs, are kicked out of schools, universities and sport clubs.
> 
> We had a russian in our class and most in my class including me said that either he gets out or we wont attend class. Guess what? He was away "ill" since thursday.


Hard but biter truth. I told since begin of invasion: no matter how this war plays out Russia is the big loser. Putin miscalculation is devastating for Russia. In his minds Ukraine is just a lamb that can be butchered. He never imagined that US, EU and NATO come together. And he could never imagine that Germany as key partner Russia now sees him as enemy.

Now people in Europe see every cooperation with Russia as a means to support the enemy.

Putin makes Russia to a pariah in Europe.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Amliunion

Hundreds of civilians have been punished for diverse reasons in Ukraine by paramilitary groups and National guard. Strong footage. Tortures, abuses, humiliation, even of kids and girls.


Spoiler: Graphic 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505309631542931459






Spoiler: Graphic 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505310728336646147





Spoiler: Graphic 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505311167903940613





Spoiler: Graphic 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505311807296126982





Spoiler: Graphic 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505312206711361545

Reactions: Sad Sad:
1 | Angry Angry:
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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505469499868336129


----------



## Apollon

Viet said:


> Hard but biter truth. I told since begin of invasion: no matter of this war plays out Russia is the big loser. Putin miscalculation is devastating for Russia. In his minds Ukraine is just a lamb that can be butchered. He never imagined that US, EU and NATO come together. And he could never imagine that Germany as key partner Russia partner now sees him as enemy.
> 
> Now people in Europe see every cooperation with Russia as a means to support the enemy.



Exactly, when you employ russians, compete in sports with them ect you support the enemy. Its important to show that and stand firm. So far it works great.

Here in Germany all russian science projects stopped and students fired.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Putin makes Russia to a pariah in Europe.



Europe is a continent of small countries. China is the second biggest country in The Old World after Russia. Russia is better off with China which is a neighbor anyway.

Plus, Chinese guys have the hots for Russian girls.


----------



## SIPRA

IblinI said:


> @Apollon that is literally you in the video, under age radical teen.



Only difference being that @Apollon would not have killed even a fly in his whole carrier as a keyboard warrior.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505304399328923650

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Europe is a continent of small countries. China is the second biggest country in The Old World after Russia. Russia is better off with China which is a neighbor anyway.



China is no neighbor of russia since nobody lives in siberia. Russia since 1000 years is a european nation. Their entire monarchy was German for example. When all connections to Europe are cut, Russia plain and simple dies off.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505464350164848643

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> China is no neighbor of russia since nobody lives in siberia. Russia since 1000 years is a european nation. Their entire monarchy was German for example. When all connections to Europe are cut, Russia plain and simple dies off.



Lots of Russians in Khabarovsk and Vladivostok. Lots of Russian girls marry Chinese guys too considering Chinese guys have the hots for Russian girls


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505457122191966208


----------



## LeGenD

Tai Hai Chen said:


> It's near impossible to shoot down Iskander, Kh-101, Kalibr, Kinzhal. Even if possible, it is very expensive to do so.


Not for NATO to be precise. PAC-3 and THAAD are extensively tested in this respect (both have demonstrated the capability to intercept different types of missiles in homeland trials). Expensive? YES. But NATO can afford associated costs.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> Americans don't care about Saudis slaughtering Yemenis with bombs. They sure don't care about Russians slaughtering Ukrainians with bombs out of compassion. If they care, it's only because of dick measuring contest with Russians, not because of compassion.



Well... no argument from me in this case. Fair enough.


----------



## WotTen

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Plus, Chinese guys have the hots for Russian girls.



Lots of guys have the hots for Russian girls.
Russia has some very fine women!


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505252637758746625


----------



## Apollon

SIPRA said:


> Only difference being that @Apollon would not have killed even a fly in his whole carrier as a keyboard warrior.



Im not a keyboard warrior. I want safety for my country and continent and Russia is a threat for us. Its that simple. Beside that, my mother raised me so of course it would not be easy for me to kill someone. Even more so when its first time.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505252637758746625



Fake and debunked. Car was from russian saboteurs who tried to escape.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505330935855681539


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505474431816241152


----------



## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Lots of Russians in Khabarovsk and Vladivostok. Lots of Russian girls marry Chinese guys too considering Chinese guys have the hots for Russian girls


The richness of Russia lie in Moscow megapolis and Far East, so yes, Putin will sell his country for cheap to China.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505450613706039298


----------



## Goritoes

So who's winning the war? In reality and on Social media ?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505241138462085122

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505475792008101888

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505475438071713792

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## LeGenD

WotTen said:


> Other than colonial times, was the US mainland ever in credible danger in any of these wars?



- Japan attacked Pearl Harbor in World War 2.
- Germany had plans to bomb New York City in World War 2.

Americans were not willing to give them a chance on the other hand - USA mobilized for war and launched its military operations against both in 1942. The idea was to bring the war to them before they could reach US mainland.

Other countries mentioned were also well-equipped to fight a war in regional context and were difficult to fight in their home-turf.

My point is that USA have certainly taken its chances with well-equipped countries from time-to-time.

But modern Russia? Not so much.


----------



## Apollon

Goritoes said:


> So who's winning the war? In reality and on Social media ?



There are 4 wars. Military, propaganda, economic and political.

Russia lost propaganda, economic and politival war. With extreme force they might win military. But even thats not sure yet.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505476250177261568


----------



## Goritoes

Apollon said:


> There are 4 wars. Military, propaganda, economic and political.
> 
> Russia lost propaganda, economic and politival war. With extreme force they might win military. But even thats not sure yet.


Lets hope the war ends soon...

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505207747477970944


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505477633424998402

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505476250177261568




Thank you for posting all this. Russia propaganda is banned in Germany so i can flag his account on twitter to violate the German Netzwerkdurchsetzungsgesetz. This account will be gone in a few days.


----------



## Vergennes

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505477633424998402



Funny you quote this dude who has been spreading BS since years from Syria to Libya to Karabakh


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505476250177261568



Su-35 is a beast and can shoot Kh-59MK2 all the way from Belarus to Kiev.


----------



## Apollon

Vergennes said:


> Funny you quote this dude who has been spreading BS since years from Syria to Libya to Karabakh



Report his account on Twitter buddy. Its against european laws and they remove it.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504961615355158535


----------



## jamahir

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505442209667059716





IblinI said:


> @Apollon that is literally you in the video, under age radical teen.



We need not use that cringey and anti-Nature word "underage" but yes when I watched the vid I too was reminded of Apollon.



Apollon said:


> Russians get no treatment in hospitals, get no jobs, are kicked out of schools, universities and sport clubs.



Meanwhile in NATO leader USA like I informed you yesterday :








Apollon said:


> We had a russian in our class and most in my class including me said that either he gets out or we wont attend class. Guess what? He was away "ill" since thursday.



You are just brainwashed and are acting as a lynch mob. Please stop.



Apollon said:


> On a sidenote, i give a shit about libya, syria or takatuka land. I only care about Europe.



That says in a sentence why you dislike the pan-human nature of Communism. You don't care how many of the world's peoples are crushed under the bombs and boots of the oppressive, Capitalist imperialist entity called NATO.



WotTen said:


> OK, now I am convinced you are posting from a mental hospital ward.



Actually like @Ich indicated Apollon is the normal in much of the West - idolizing sports stars and "Keeping Up With the Kardashians" and buying the latest car on loan while paying money to get homes, healthcare, education and living between the sprawls of ugly skyscrapers which enable crime. Essentially a disharmonious life yet they don't complain to their governments but instead become the government's gun-arms to terrorize progressive societies.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

LeGenD said:


> Not for NATO to be precise. PAC-3 and THAAD are extensively tested in this respect (both have demonstrated the capability to intercept different types of missiles in homeland trials). Expensive? YES. But NATO can afford associated costs.



Interception is not 100%. It's 100 km from Belarus to Kiev. Iskander and Kinzhal reach that within a minute. Yes, it is possible to intercept, but expensive and rate is not 100%.


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Report his account on Twitter buddy. Its against european laws and they remove it.



Wow ! Such freedom of expression in the West.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505479824885878784


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

WotTen said:


> Lots of guys have the hots for Russian girls.
> Russia has some very fine women!



Russians are basically native Uralic + Viking conqueror mix. Very exotic women.


----------



## Amliunion

Vergennes said:


> Funny you quote this dude who has been spreading BS since years from Syria to Libya to Karabakh



Why don't you counter this dudes Propaganda by presenting truth?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505480192550133760

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505480323655680000


----------



## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505479824885878784



See it was sucessful. Now blocked here and twitter post invisible.


----------



## Hydration

jamahir said:


> Wow ! Such freedom of expression in the West.


a freind of mine is being flagged on youtube because his videos are neutral abt the conflict and bring you news about what happned freedom of expresssion is a double standard in the west and just a term

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Wow Wow:
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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> We need not use that cringey and anti-Nature word "underage" but yes when I watched the vid I too was reminded of Apollon.
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile in NATO leader USA like I informed you yesterday :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are just brainwashed and are acting as a lynch mob. Please stop.
> 
> 
> 
> That says in a sentence why you dislike the pan-human nature of Communism. You don't care how many of the world's peoples are crushed under the bombs and boots of the oppressive, Capitalist imperialist entity called NATO.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually like @Ich indicated Apollon is the normal in much of the West - idolizing sports stars and "Keeping Up With the Kardashians" and buying the latest car on loan while paying money to get homes, healthcare, education and living between the sprawls of ugly skyscrapers which enable crime. Essentially a disharmonious life yet they don't complain to their governments but instead become the government's gun-arms to terrorize progressive societies.



You talk some rubbish. There are almost no skyscrapers in Europe. In Germany for example only in Frankfurt. There are strict rules to build them here. Also we have free healthcare, free education ect. Europe is not USA. 

And i dont see it as mob. We simply make a political statement as class.

Im an athlete. If i dont want compete with a russian, thats my decission. Iranians dont compete with israeli either and you say nothing, but when we do it, its mob? Come on.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505482204654223365


----------



## Hydration

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505480192550133760


volunteers from forign countries deserve it and i think russia said it would not be freindly with volunteers but provide shelter and medical care to ukranian conscripts and torture forigners as they only joined to kill russians

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505464350164848643



@zzzz @Amliunion 

no wonder russians are hell bent on propaganda against Azov seeing how they are being trashed them and their super duper chechens slaves.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505482627612086272


----------



## jhungary

Hydration said:


> a freind of mine is being flagged on youtube because his videos are neutral abt the conflict and bring you news about what happned freedom of expresssion is a double standard in the west and just a term


Lol, this is not how Freedom of Press work.

You are talking about Youtube banning pro-Russia information. Free Press work by inclusive material to balance the view, that does not mean you force every channel become neutral, which mean for every Youtube there are always Newsmax or Any of the Telegram channel to balance out.

Channel or media platform itself is biased, like if you post Pro-Republican info on Democratic platform, you are going to get ban. 

Try post your Pro-Russian stuff on Telegram,


----------



## Ich

Apollon said:


> Thank you for posting all this. Russia propaganda is banned in Germany so i can flag his account on twitter to violate the German Netzwerkdurchsetzungsgesetz. This account will be gone in a few days.



As i already said here: Most of the germans today are dumb as shit and best example for how it was under Hitler and Goebbels in the third Reich. Brainwashing at high levels.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505483380636401664


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505483457933238272


----------



## Amliunion

Vergennes said:


> @zzzz @Amliunion
> 
> no wonder russians are hell bent on propaganda against Azov seeing how they are being trashed them and their super duper chechens slaves.



That's the answer to countering the BS spread by the Twitter Handel posted by me? 

NATO - No Action Talk Only will fight Russians till the last standing Ukrainian.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505484841156030469


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505486046980620291


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505486517946535936


----------



## jhungary

Never thought I would have quote Sputnik 

US Suggested Turkey Send Its S-400s to Ukraine to Help Kiev Tackle Russian Special Op: Report​


https://sputniknews.com/20220320/us-suggested-turkey-send-its-s-400s-to-ukraine-to-help-kiev-tackle-russian-special-op-report-1094024217.html



There are report that US is offering Turkey F-35 in exchange of S-400 missile to Ukraine.

This is a "Rumor" and there are no major Western Media coverage at this point, only Sputnik, so I am not sure if this is disinformation or this is really something on the table.


----------



## EvoluXon

Goritoes said:


> So who's winning the war? In reality and on Social media ?


In social media. Ukraine has decimated whole russian army and their troops are at the gates of moscow .. in reality russians have encircled kiev ... mariupol to fall.... hitting western ukraine .. slaughtering foreign mercenraries...

In other words Rambo is only found in hollywood movies in reality your *** got kicked by ak47 turban man in afghanistan...

Reactions: Like Like:
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## UKBengali

jhungary said:


> Never thought I would have quote Sputnik
> 
> US Suggested Turkey Send Its S-400s to Ukraine to Help Kiev Tackle Russian Special Op: Report​
> 
> 
> https://sputniknews.com/20220320/us-suggested-turkey-send-its-s-400s-to-ukraine-to-help-kiev-tackle-russian-special-op-report-1094024217.html
> 
> 
> 
> There are report that US is offering Turkey F-35 in exchange of S-400 missile to Ukraine.
> 
> This is a "Rumor" and there are no major Western Media coverage at this point, only Sputnik, so I am not sure if this is disinformation or this is really something on the table.




Makes no sense for 2 reasons:

1. This will mean that the Russians would never supply any more military equipment or technology to Turkey.

2. Ukraine would need weeks if not months to be able to operate the system effectively.


----------



## jhungary

UKBengali said:


> Makes no sense for 2 reasons:
> 
> 1. This will mean that the Russians would never supply any more military equipment or technology to Turkey.
> 
> 2. Ukraine would need weeks if not months to be able to operate the system effectively.



1.) I am pretty sure Russia is not going to be in any position to supply anything to anyone after this war. Especially to any NATO nation....Unless Sanction is lifted, other country cannot pay for it. 

2.) I don't know, how long does it take for them to train to use S-400? Does it have system familiarity because the Ukrainian were using S-300.


----------



## EvoluXon

jamahir said:


> Wow ! Such freedom of expression in the West.


Lol yeah its freedom of speech untill it is not against your agenda or perception inclining towards your own thoughts .. people in the west want to listen what they like to ....

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Amliunion

jhungary said:


> Never thought I would have quote Sputnik
> 
> US Suggested Turkey Send Its S-400s to Ukraine to Help Kiev Tackle Russian Special Op: Report​
> 
> 
> https://sputniknews.com/20220320/us-suggested-turkey-send-its-s-400s-to-ukraine-to-help-kiev-tackle-russian-special-op-report-1094024217.html
> 
> 
> 
> There are report that US is offering Turkey F-35 in exchange of S-400 missile to Ukraine.
> 
> This is a "Rumor" and there are no major Western Media coverage at this point, only Sputnik, so I am not sure if this is disinformation or this is really something on the table.



NYtimes and other have also reported this:










U.S. suggested Turkey transfer Russian-made missile system to Ukraine


The United States has informally raised with Turkey the unlikely possibility of sending its Russian-made S-400 missile defense systems to Ukraine to help it fight invading Russian forces, according to three sources familiar with the matter.




www.reuters.com













For the U.S., a Tenuous Balance in Confronting Russia


Navigating between aiding Ukraine and avoiding an escalation with Moscow has led to a tangle of decisions and sometimes tortured distinctions over weapons and other elements of policy.




www.nytimes.com


----------



## Vergennes

EvoluXon said:


> In social media. Ukraine has decimated whole russian army and their troops are at the gates of moscow .. in reality russians have encircled kiev ... mariupol to fall.... hitting western ukraine .. slaughtering foreign mercenraries...
> 
> In other words Rambo is only found in hollywood movies in reality your *** got kicked by ak47 turban man in afghanistan...



So i'm guessing you are the kind of guys supporting denazification of Ukraine.... while having hitler as a profile picture when he considered the likes of you as subhumans ?


----------



## jhungary

Amliunion said:


> NYtimes and other have also reported this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. suggested Turkey transfer Russian-made missile system to Ukraine
> 
> 
> The United States has informally raised with Turkey the unlikely possibility of sending its Russian-made S-400 missile defense systems to Ukraine to help it fight invading Russian forces, according to three sources familiar with the matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the U.S., a Tenuous Balance in Confronting Russia
> 
> 
> Navigating between aiding Ukraine and avoiding an escalation with Moscow has led to a tangle of decisions and sometimes tortured distinctions over weapons and other elements of policy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com


hmm.........interesting.....


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505486640600526849


----------



## Hydration

UKBengali said:


> Makes no sense for 2 reasons:
> 
> 1. This will mean that the Russians would never supply any more military equipment or technology to Turkey.
> 
> 2. Ukraine would need weeks if not months to be able to operate the system effectively.


the ones given to turkey are very poor in preformance and yes it will take them weeks to operate it effectiveley


----------



## Saho

Apollon said:


> We had a russian in our class and most in my class including me said that either he gets out or we wont attend class. Guess what? He was away "ill" since thursday.


What is this? 1930?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hydration

Apollon said:


> You dont get it, its propably too complex to you. Putin said it clearly. He first wanted entire eastern europe under russian opression. After USA leave NATO and Europe is left with only 300 french nukes, entire Europe would fall under russian hegemony. Sorry but Europe wont bow to Russia and NATO is the most important key for our security.
> 
> What is important now, is to destroy evry russian presence in europe. Economy, trade, sport, culture and thats exactly whats done. Putin is like hitler and its time to kill them off before they can attack us.
> 
> On a sidenote, i give a shit about libya, syria or takatuka land. I only care about Europe.
> 
> Putin made NATO more powerful than ever before. For that i have to thank this clown. He achieved not one of his goals and completly miscalculated. Russian economy wiped out, NATO stronger than ever before and for first time ever 100.000 NATO soldiers in Baltics, Poland, Slovenia and Romania. Finland will join NATO and Sweden propably too. In Ukraine his army is exposed as junk troop and all he gets there is dead land.
> 
> And it gets worse for the botox kremlin. EU head von der Leyen said there wont be any negotiations with Putins regime. He is a untrustworthy liar. So sanctions stay for eternity. He lost Europe, evrything what generations of russian leaders build up, he threw into the toilet. The entire pipeline system is obsolete by 2023, the tech, science and economic cooperation dead. Russian scientists, students and workers get expelled from Europe. Russians are banned from all sport events. Russian artists thrown out of Europe, fired and hunted out.
> 
> Russian opera singers like Netrebko got all contracts terminated and basicly a kick in their a**, thrown out like a cheap redlight district actress.
> 
> 380 billion € assets of russian central bank taken, beside that all property of russian elites taken. Abramowitch now had to run away like a beaten dog and could not even afford paying a cleaning women anymore. There is a reason why russian elites all lived in Europe and not in that grey, abysmal shithole Russia. They are now stuck in Russia and as spains primeminister said, they can now sail in the Barrentsea. Russian aviation...dead. Russian trains build by german siemens...dead.
> 
> And all that is just the beginning. In Germany all bank accounts of people with russian passports got frozen. That means even poor ones dont even get welfare money anymore. Russians get no treatment in hospitals, get no jobs, are kicked out of schools, universities and sport clubs.
> 
> We had a russian in our class and most in my class including me said that either he gets out or we wont attend class. Guess what? He was away "ill" since thursday.


the racism is getting of hand


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505489126480560134

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Messerschmitt

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505464350164848643




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505467814500605953

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

Hydration said:


> the racism is getting of hand



How is it racism? We are same race. Our nations are at war / conflict basicly so such things happen.


----------



## WotTen

jhungary said:


> US Suggested Turkey Send Its S-400s to Ukraine to Help Kiev Tackle Russian Special Op: Report​



Ironic, since US slapped sanctions on Turkey and barred them from F-35 precisely for buying the S-400. Yet the US placed no such sanctions on India.

I know Turkey is helping Ukraine because of longstanding friendship, and it is also angry at Russian atrocities on Tatar Muslims in Crimea, but I doubt Turkey would take this step. But you never know. They didn't shy away from supplying those drones...


----------



## Tom_Cruise

Amliunion said:


> That's the answer to countering the BS spread by the Twitter Handel posted by me?
> 
> NATO - No Action Talk Only will fight Russians till the last standing Ukrainian.


NATO has explicitly stated it will not engage Russia due to the dangers of a wider conflict. I'm sure you have enough brain cells to understand what that means. They have said they will help Ukraine with weapons and that is what they're doing.

BTW, do you know what the US military did to the Russian Wagner merceneries in Syria?


----------



## Vergennes

Tom_Cruise said:


> NATO has explicitly stated it will not engage Russia due to the dangers of a wider conflict. I'm sure you have enough brain cells to understand what that means. They have said they will help Ukraine with weapons and that is what they're doing.
> 
> BTW, do you know what the US military did to the Russian Wagner merceneries in Syria?



The only threat Russia poses to NATO are its nuclear weapons,on the conventional matter,NATO would trash Russia,something those who were fed with Russian propaganda about how "great" their armed forces were have problems understanding.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505486008787349506

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505478127132327938

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505493946922942469

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505489539770556418

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505481363063025664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505455113875427328

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Tom_Cruise said:


> BTW, do you know what the US military did to the Russian Wagner merceneries in Syria?


Probably regretting for not saying they were Russian Soldier......

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## Hydration

Apollon said:


> How is it racism? We are same race. Our nations are at war / conflict basicly so such things happen.


idk kicking out a kid from the school just because hes russian?????


----------



## Tom_Cruise

Vergennes said:


> The only threat Russia poses to NATO are its nuclear weapons,on the conventional matter,NATO would trash Russia,something those who were fed with Russian propaganda about how "great" their armed forces were have problems understanding.


Absolutely. Russia has successfully orchestrated a huge propaganda campaign to make their military seem iron clad when in reality we've seen they are no more better than Eritrea and have to rely on Chechen mercenaries and rag-tag Syrians who can't even fight ISIS.

Nukes are Russia's only saving hope. Even Poland's air force alone could smash the pathetic Russian air force.

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## Amliunion

Tom_Cruise said:


> NATO has explicitly stated it will not engage Russia due to the dangers of a wider conflict. I'm sure you have enough brain cells to understand what that means. They have said they will help Ukraine with weapons and that is what they're doing.
> 
> BTW, do you know what the US military did to the Russian Wagner merceneries in Syria?



Preach about Brain Cells to The French Member who's calling what other posts is Propaganda. When one asks him to provide facts/prove it's Propaganda. He doesn't replies.

US/NATO Weapons will Prolong this war for few months but at th end Russia will succeed. You can bookmark this post.

BTW, do you know with Russia intervention in Syria, US and her accomplices weren't able to do regime Change? We can have discussion on this in a different thread.


----------



## Viet

UKBengali said:


> Makes no sense for 2 reasons:
> 
> 1. This will mean that the Russians would never supply any more military equipment or technology to Turkey.
> 
> 2. Ukraine would need weeks if not months to be able to operate the system effectively.


It’s not difficult. True, Putin will be very very very angry. It’s fire and forget system. Vietnam air defense operates S300 missiles and modern S400 acquisition radar. If we can Ukraine army can too.


----------



## Amliunion

Viet said:


> It’s not difficult. It’s fire and forget system. Vietnam air defense operates S300 and modern S400 radar. If we can Ukraine army can too.
> 
> View attachment 825711
> View attachment 825712



I read an article which said that Turkey needs permission from Russia to transfer S400 Air Defence System to Ukraine.

US/EU countries calmed to provide Fighter Jets etc to Ukraine but in reality put blame on each other. I this S400 supply to Ukraine as Optics.


----------



## Viet

Amliunion said:


> I read an article which said that Turkey needs permission from Russia to transfer S400 Air Defence System to Ukraine.
> 
> US/EU countries calmed to provide Fighter Jets etc to Ukraine but in reality put blame on each other. I this S400 supply to Ukraine as Optics.


Putin will never allow the transfer. He is insane but not stupid.


----------



## Apollon

Hydration said:


> idk kicking out a kid from the school just because hes russian?????


We told him to denounce Putins war. He did not, so he had to go. We have a ukrainian girl in vlass and we cant allow her to suffer from his presence.

Beside that, this is how we humans are when there are big conflicts. As it stands now we simply cant have contact without bad emotions so i guess its best for all involved to break contact. 

You are egyptian right? I know you egyptians are not very fond to Israelis either so you should undeestand.


----------



## EvoluXon

Vergennes said:


> So i'm guessing you are the kind of guys supporting denazification of Ukraine.... while having hitler as a profile picture when he considered the likes of you as subhumans ?


Media & flow of information in WW2 were controlled by West that time , again it is being controlled by same west empire .. history is written by victor.. wait and see who will be victor . Russia & china alliance or West ..then argue ..

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## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> Preach about Brain Cells to The French Member who's calling what other posts is Propaganda.
> 
> US/NATO Weapons will Prolong this war for few months but at th end Russia will succeed. You can bookmark this post.
> 
> BTW, do you know with Russia intervention in Syria, US and her accomplices weren't able to do regime Change? We can have discussion on this in a different thread.



Suceed in what? They would still be North Korea 2.0. Having conquered only ash and burned land and complete cut of from any contact with Europe.


----------



## Hydration

Apollon said:


> We told him to denounce Putins war. He did not, so he had to go. We have a ukrainian girl in vlass and we cant allow her to suffer from his presence.
> 
> Beside that, this is how we humans are when there are big conflicts. As it stands now we simply cant have contact without bad emotions so i guess its best for all involved to break contact.
> 
> You are egyptian right? I know you egyptians are not very fond to Israelis either so you should undeestand.


i would do the same to an israeli i cant call you out on this one because i would do the same lol

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## Apollon

EvoluXon said:


> Media & flow of information in WW2 were controlled by West then , again it is being controlled by same west empire .. history is written by victor.. wait and see who will be victor . Russia & china alliance or West ..then argue ..



Russia and China is no alliance, an alliance is between partners. But Russia is so weak compared to China that its simply a vasall relationship. Since Russia has zero contacts to Europe left it doesnt even have leverage on China with europe as alternative. Its a trapped slave then.


----------



## Oublious

Hydration said:


> the ones given to turkey are very poor in preformance and yes it will take them weeks to operate it effectiveley




lol

source...


----------



## Amliunion

Apollon said:


> Suceed in what? They would still be North Korea 2.0. Having conquered only ash and burned land and complete cut of from any contact with Europe.



Russia will be North Korea 2.0 in your Pipe Dream. Have you already stopped using Russian Gas?


----------



## Tom_Cruise

Amliunion said:


> Preach about Brain Cells to The French Member who's calling what other posts is Propaganda.
> 
> US/NATO Weapons will Prolong this war for few months but at th end Russia will succeed. You can bookmark this post.
> 
> BTW, do you know with Russia intervention in Syria, US and her accomplices weren't able to do regime Change? We can have discussion on this in a different thread.



What, bookmark the inevitable? Anyone knows this war will be a long grind to end which will eventually see Ukraine overun, but that won't hide the pathetic performance of the Russian military on flat land, hard for defenders, but favourable for attacking armoured formations. We are entering the 4th week and Russia is losing senior commanders and struggling to gain an overall foothold. They then will have to deal with an insurgency in the long run.

And with the benefit of hindsight if the US had known what a circus the Russians are, they could have easily smashed Russian forces in Syria if they had chose to.


----------



## Amliunion

Disgusting violence against a couple in the village of Levkovichi, Zhytomyr region!



Spoiler: Graphic 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505499414294667267


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505500269089591298

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## Ali_Baba

jhungary said:


> Never thought I would have quote Sputnik
> 
> US Suggested Turkey Send Its S-400s to Ukraine to Help Kiev Tackle Russian Special Op: Report​
> 
> 
> https://sputniknews.com/20220320/us-suggested-turkey-send-its-s-400s-to-ukraine-to-help-kiev-tackle-russian-special-op-report-1094024217.html
> 
> 
> 
> There are report that US is offering Turkey F-35 in exchange of S-400 missile to Ukraine.
> 
> This is a "Rumor" and there are no major Western Media coverage at this point, only Sputnik, so I am not sure if this is disinformation or this is really something on the table.



Honestly - it would be be the best solution to the fiasco that was/is purchasing the S400 was for Turkey - it has cost Turkey more than it has gained ... esp if the Americans backfill with AD systems of equivalent standard which they denied the first time ..



Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505467814500605953



Interesting tactic - go for the tracks on the tank and make it immobile and then let the soldiers take care of the tank. Also - hitting that low down on the tank - could the BTR have penetrated the thanks armour - difficult on top but at the bottom - possible?


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505498079193145346


----------



## UKBengali

jhungary said:


> 1.) I am pretty sure Russia is not going to be in any position to supply anything to anyone after this war. Especially to any NATO nation....Unless Sanction is lifted, other country cannot pay for it.






To be honest, I do not even see Turkey being in Nato in 10-15 years time.

What exactly do they even get out of the alliance after they are able to independently manufacture most of their own weapons systems by then?

Maybe nuclear deterrent but I hardly think the mainly Asiatic and Muslim Turks actually believe that the West would all die to defend Turkey against Russian nuclear weapons.

Turkey looks like it wants good relations with the West, Russia and China going forward and will chart an independent course as a medium sized and technologically self-sufficient power.

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## EvoluXon

Apollon said:


> Russia and China is no alliance, an alliance is between partners. But Russia is so weak compared to China that its simply a vasall relationship. Since Russia has zero contacts to Europe left it doesnt even have leverage on China with europe as alternative. Its a trapped slave then.


Russia is headache of EU not US.. It is well documented in US intel reports that they see China as sole threat against their world order..Their indo pacific strategy is main concern and pivotal ...Do you think Russia has just started a war in anger? NATO has been expanding since many years Russia did not take action then. Now russo-sino alliance thought its best time to counter US global order and for China to keep US at bay from indo pacific .. we dont experience shift in global order in short period of time.. Effects will take time may be 10 - 30 years . Global order has to change in favor of china with this war or without this war..but this war more specifically Russia will expedite the process of Global order shift ...so China has to back Russia in any case.. Actually Russia is China's Ukraine but with more power, lethal, effective and hot headed . even at the expense of liquidation of Russia, China will take it with no worries untill its objectives are met. Got it ..

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## Amliunion

Tom_Cruise said:


> What, bookmark the inevitable? Anyone knows this war will be a long grind to end which will eventually see Ukraine overun, but that won't hide the pathetic performance of the Russian military on flat land, hard for defenders, but favourable for attacking armoured formations. We are entering the 4th week and Russia is losing senior commanders and struggling to gain an overall foothold. They then will have to deal with an insurgency in the long run.
> 
> And with the benefit of hindsight if the US had known what a circus the Russians are, they could have easily smashed Russian forces in Syria if they had chose to.



I have already mentioned in this thread how bad Russian Amry is performing in this War. That is not the Part of disscuion wherein you've jumped in. I am asking French Member to prove what I posted is Propaganda.

US still has chance to resurrect it's mistake in Ukraine.


----------



## WotTen

Israelis know how to bypass the S-300 and the Russians themselves are up to S-550, so I am sure Russia knows how to defeat their own system S-400.


----------



## Amliunion

Western "way of life" killed them. They forgot that they are not in westie middle class bubble world.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505209597686128644

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505506914758705165


----------



## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> Russia will be North Korea 2.0 in your Pipe Dream. Have you already stopped using Russian Gas?



I dont use russian gas. And EU sets to end all russian gas supply by 2023.

Do you consider it a great sucess of Putin to have all connections to Europe destroyed? 

Also how you think this will be repaired? Its obvious that its impossible as long as Putin is president.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505508003709079553

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## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505508003709079553



Bullshit russian propaganda right from Ria Novosti.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505508001809149960


----------



## Amliunion

Mass surrender of UA personal in the Kopylov - Kiev region


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505510290103980034


----------



## Foinikas

retaxis said:


> You are olive skin brownies like Syrians and Egyptians. Hardly any greeks have blond hair blue eyes which is most common to slavs.


That's not true,man. Majority greeks are white,just not the central and northern European white. I know we're being portrayed as very olive skinned in cartoons and comedies,but that's not everywhere in Greece. It's like saying all of Finland is blonde and all of Ireland is ginger. It's not true.

Anyway,back to Ukraine

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> That's not true,man. Majority greeks are white,just not the central and northern European white. I know we're being portrayed as very olive skinned in cartoons and comedies,but that's not everywhere in Greece. It's like saying all of Finland is blonde and all of Ireland is ginger. It's not true.
> 
> Anyway,back to Ukraine
> 
> View attachment 825728



It will be stopped soon anyways. Only country clinging to it is Germany. So far Germany had to be forced to install all sanctions on Russia anyways. So i guess in a few days Germany will halt all gas delivery from Russia anyways. Best would be for Poland and Ukraine to simply create facts and blow up the pipelines.


----------



## ILC

Lol, that's how Polish gas and oil import looks like. If these dogs at government will stop Russian oil, I will go to protest,i won't pay 10 euro for 1 liter of gasoline.






Apollon said:


> It will be stopped soon anyways. Only country clinging to it is Germany. So far Germany had to be forced to install all sanctions on Russia anyways. So i guess in a few days Germany will halt all gas delivery from Russia anyways. Best would be for Poland and Ukraine to simply create facts and blow up the pipelines.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505478388361969666

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505501392772947969

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## ProudPak

Apollon said:


> Is Iraq Europe? No. Is Afghanistan Europe? No. Is Syria or Libya, Palestine Europe? No.
> 
> I dont care about them just as you dont care about us. Thats most healthy way of thinking. If evryone thinks aboit himself, nobody will be forgotten. Its that simple.


So once again white racists lives at more important.
I am so glad Greeks are a mess economically and militarily. And also glad the Turks have taken half of Cyprus. You keep breaking plates you racist nazi.
It's equally great to know you are dying out as you are not reproducing at a sustainable rate so eventually you are dead anyways

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## Apollon

ProudPak said:


> So once again white racists lives at more important.
> I am so glad Greeks are a mess economically and militarily. And also glad the Turks have taken half of Cyprus. You keep breaking plates you racist nazi.
> It's equally great to know you are dying out as you are not reproducing at a sustainable rate so eventually you are dead anyways



I have 6 siblings ha ha ha We dont die out. We are 560 million europeans witg stable numbers. 

Also Greece economy is booming since 2 or 3 years now. Guess you are stuck 6 years ago or so. 

Turks have not taken half of cyprus, its actually only 30% of it. 

On a sidenote i find your racism amusing. You insult my race and for what? Because i say i care for my people only? Poor baby. Guess what? I also dont spend money for non europeans just as you dont spend money for us.

On topic:

Another russian commando post destroyed


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505498608027770880


ILC said:


> Lol, that's how Polish gas and oil import looks like. If these dogs at government will stop Russian oil, I will go to protest,i won't pay 10 euro for 1 liter of gasoline.



Dude that kind of thinking is like polish wanting to buy cheap Mercedes from Hitler during Warsaw Uprising.

Also fuel prices already sink all over Europe.


----------



## Amliunion

Objective Control: Destruction of a Ukrainian Armed Forces Tank by Precision Missiles:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505457243877253123


----------



## Apollon

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505275837016326144


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505518242575626241


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505520254906212360

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505520254906212360



Su-35 is a beast. Shoots Kh-59MK2 missiles from Belarus into Kiev.


----------



## Amliunion

How are those sanctions working out? Don’t worry, the little people can pay the cost. Your leaders will be standing by you when you’re lining up for flour.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505505418973437954


----------



## Madni Bappa

Apollon said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505275837016326144


I bet Ukrainians ask the same question from their propaganda wing.

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## dBSPL

Losing a tank so easily and quickly tells a lot about not only the survivability of russian tanks, but also the tactical operations and movements of the Russian armored troops.

30mm automatic turret vs. some of T-72s

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505461949999501312


----------



## Meengla

Its offensive slowed, Russia uses long-range missiles to devastating effect.







www.nytimes.com





Even as the Russian ground advance on key targets including Kyiv and Odessa remains stalled, it has used long-range rockets in recent days to devastating effect against the Ukrainian military and infrastructure.

As the war grinds on, the strikes are a reminder of how Russia’s vastly superior armaments give it a distinct advantage, even as what was meant to be a lightning blitz to take out the Ukrainian government turns into a grueling war of attrition.

In the first week of the war, it is not clear how many Russian strikes hit their targets, but Piotr Lukasiewicz, an analyst at Polityka Insight, a Warsaw-based research institute, said that they did serious damage to Ukraine’s command and control centers.

“They disabled an important headquarters and communications center in the beginning with precision strikes,” he said.

Just as the Russians are plagued by logistical and resupply issues, the Ukrainians are struggling to replace the stationary systems that the Russians have destroyed or disabled.

“Gradually Ukrainians are losing their radars or warning systems,” Mr. Lukasiewicz said.

The Russians also have shown that their weapons can hit with precision. A strike on a barracks in Mykolaiv on Friday that was housing 200 marines, killing dozens, was among the deadliest of the war. It also came with little warning, according to the mayor, Oleksandr Senkevich, with no air alarms sounding. The strike raised questions about Ukrainian tactics and why they would have concentrated so many soldiers in one location on the front lines.

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## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> How are those sanctions working out? Don’t worry, the little people can pay the cost. Your leaders will be standing by you when you’re lining up for flour.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505505418973437954



Its war, war costs us all. Do you honestly suggest we let a facist russian regime take over europe in exchange for flour? Are you kidding?

Its obvious Europe sees Russian agression as substantial threat .

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505523469227896833


----------



## dBSPL

Russia loses an average of 1 tank battalion every day (10-13 tanks), even if we take into account only visual confirmations. 

This is not the right offensive strategy when the war is stuck into the cities. This degree of attrition could puts even the largest land army in the world, such as Russia, into a difficult and dangerous situation within a few months.

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## Madni Bappa

dBSPL said:


> Losing a tank so easily and quickly tells a lot about not only the survivability of russian tanks, but also the tactical operations and movements of the Russian armored troops.
> 
> 30mm automatic turret vs. some of T-72s
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505461949999501312











Saudi Losses in Yemen War Exposed by US Tank Deal


The U.S. State Department says Riyadh can buy 153 Abrams tanks, 20 of which will replace ones destroyed in combat.




www.defenseone.com













Turkey's Leopard 2 Tanks Are Getting Crushed in Syria


Not so good armor after all.




nationalinterest.org





I think tanks themselves are dead. Unless tank makers find a defense against top attack munitions.

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## Apollon

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505523469227896833



Why is that russian spetznaz dude chilling on the floor while ukrainians take all the weapons? 🤣 he doesnt look that spetznaz anymore.


----------



## Meengla

dBSPL said:


> Russia loses an average of 1 tank battalion every day (10-13 tanks), even if we take into account only visual confirmations.
> 
> This is not the right offensive strategy when the war is stuck into the cities. This degree of attrition could puts even the largest land army in the world, such as Russia, into a difficult and dangerous situation within a few months.



There maybe still a chance that China supplies Russia with weapons. That could be a game changer in this war.


----------



## Apollon

Meengla said:


> There maybe still a chance that China supplies Russia with weapons. That could be a game changer in this war.



This would mean death of Chinas trade with Europe. I doubg China would declare war to Europe to help Russia...a economic dwarfs war.

China will keep sending warm words but never risk evrything it has build up in last 30 years. It would kill all their european investments including silkroad in an instant

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## dBSPL

Madni Bappa said:


> Saudi Losses in Yemen War Exposed by US Tank Deal
> 
> 
> The U.S. State Department says Riyadh can buy 153 Abrams tanks, 20 of which will replace ones destroyed in combat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defenseone.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey's Leopard 2 Tanks Are Getting Crushed in Syria
> 
> 
> Not so good armor after all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nationalinterest.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think tanks themselves are dead. Unless tank makers find a defense against top attack munitions.


Nope. Tanks are not dead. However, the staffs of some countries continue their old-school attack doctrines despite the developing technology and new systems, concepts. Russian armors are trying to enter urban areas where tactical and mini UAVs, top attack capable ATGM teams and remotely controlled anti-armor caliber turrets are rife and where the line of sight is a few hundred meters max due to the buildings; with the 70's MBT configurations and doctrines.

A tank moving into urban areas must have an APS system. Likewise, tanks operating in the countryside must have the ability to shoot with laser-guided projectile without line of sight. This topic is very detailed in terms of both troop operational doctrines and ground survivability technologies in new generation tanks, and a lot can be written about it.

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## reflecthofgeismar

Apollon said:


> You know what i dont understand? When has being conservative being morphed into being a putinist? Guess what? Conservative European means for me to not bow towards a primitive and savage Russia and yes, Russia is primitive for me and always has been.
> 
> I see Putins war as test run since he wants all of Europe. He openly said so several times. We can kill his pathetic excuse of a country now before its too late and i fully support that.
> 
> I believe i see the things very clearly.
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of imperislsm is it when all members come from free will to escape russian agression? Explain please.



No.
ATM we are weak bc of political hippity hoppity decadent-"liberal" promoted values, values coming from the same mouth pieces who are doing their anti-Russian propaganda, so you are falling into their trap.
If we would lose (conventionally) vs the Russians we would deserve it because we became fat, lazy and decadent!
We are Germans who stapled Russians so high the ones down under started to stink when we finish the body tower.
So you are defending the values which are the main reason why we have become weak.
In the end, the Russians and other Europeans have a common history and Russians will always be there, then under different leadership but you must find a neutral ground where both sides win.
Europe needs Russia vs the growing dragon.
I dunno why you don't wanna understand this ordinary fact.

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## dBSPL

Meengla said:


> There maybe still a chance that China supplies Russia with weapons. That could be a game changer in this war.


The number of available tanks in the Inventory is only one dimension of the situation. In that area, Russia already has the world's largest reserve (inactive) inventory. But, tank personnel are invaluable and currently , you losing a battalion of tank personal every day. Another issue is the logistics of tank units. Logistics is everything for tank units. I don't see it likely for Russia to buy a ready-made system from China and put it on the battlefield.

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## UKBengali

Apollon said:


> This would mean death of Chinas trade with Europe. I doubg China would declare war to Europe to help Russia...a economic dwarfs war.
> 
> China will keep sending warm words but never risk evrything it has build up in last 30 years. It would kill all their european investments including silkroad in an instant




EU is in no state to stop trading with China.

China is the 2nd largest economy in the world and totally integrated in the world supply chain.

Sanctioning both Russia and China at the same time would make the 2007-2008 financial crisis look like a mild slowdown.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505526303428157448

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## Apollon

reflecthofgeismar said:


> No.
> ATM we are weak bc of political hippity hoppity decadent-"liberal" promoted values, values coming from the same mouth pieces who are doing their anti-Russian propaganda, so you are falling into their trap.
> If we would lose (conventionally) vs the Russians we would deserve it because we became fat, lazy and decadent!
> We are Germans who stapled Russians so high the ones down under started to stink when we finish the body tower.
> So you are defending the values which are the main reason why we have become weak.
> In the end, the Russians and other Europeans have a common history and Russians will always be there, then under different leadership but you must find a neutral ground where both sides win.
> Europe needs Russia vs the growing dragon.
> I dunno why you don't wanna understand this ordinary fact.



I have no problem with cooperation with Russia as long we are the boss.

I must thank Putin for one thing though. Within one week all the hippies, FFF , gender gagag went silent and mostly disappeared. Europe has woken up and goes to war. its a start and was a necessary awakeneing


----------



## Ali_Baba

I really don't see China providing weapons to Russia - they will offer words that warm enough to smooth Russian egos - but just 'cold enough' to not cause bother with the west that they are not taking sides.

China will not impose sanctions on Russia - they have very clearly said that and we should not doubt that.

China will sit this out - and what comes of it - will come to pass.

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## Apollon

UKBengali said:


> EU is in no state to stop trading with China.
> 
> China is the 2nd largest economy in the world and totally integrated in the world supply chain.
> 
> Sanctioning both Russia and China at the same time would make the 2007-2008 financial crisis look like a mild slowdown.



I guess nobody told Churchill in 1939 when he declared war to Hitler Germany? Germany was 2nd largest economy in the world there as well. 

If China declares war to Europe, it would mean war. And in war you dont trade.


----------



## dBSPL

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505526303428157448


Currently, Chechens are fighting against Chechens in Maripol.

Meanwhile, Russians and Ukrainians are waging a propaganda war on the internet.

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## Amliunion

Russia says it’s struck another mercenary base in Ukraine

Russian forces hit a Ukrainian special forces training center early on Sunday, killing more than 100 local troops and foreign mercenaries, the Ministry of Defense has claimed.

A Ukrainian Special Operations Forces training center near the town of Ovruch in the northern Zhytomyr Region, which hosted the mercenaries, was targeted by “high-precision air-launched missiles,” ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said during a briefing.

A week ago, Russia destroyed another mercenary base at the Yavoriv range in the western Lviv region, saying that up to 180 foreign fighters were killed there.



https://www.rt.com/russia/552328-mercenary-base-strike-ukraine/

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## reflecthofgeismar

Apollon said:


> I have no problem with cooperation with Russia as long we are the boss.
> 
> I must thank Putin for one thing though. Within one week all the hippies, FFF , gender gagag went silent and mostly disappeared. Europe has woken up and goes to war. its a start and was a necessary awakeneing



Apollon, you need to be prepared for war, in all instances.
Europe, at least the rich counries with strong industrial base have become highly decadent, thats the problem with richness, as history proves this.
It will take a long time to be mentally prepared and get the society-military cohesion.
But that's not the main problem which I mean.
Hippies, FFF, Gender gagag etc. are the products of the SAME ideological promoters who are now doing their massive anti-Russian propaganda.
And I think YOU know that too but now you on their line in the case of Russia? That smells fishy, doesn't it?

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## Amliunion

dBSPL said:


> Currently, Chechens are fighting against Chechens in Maripol.
> 
> Meanwhile, Russians and Ukrainians are waging a propaganda war on the internet.


The Propaganda war is Russians vs World.

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## UKBengali

Apollon said:


> I guess nobody told Churchill in 1939 when he declared war to Hitler Germany? Germany was 2nd largest economy in the world there as well.
> 
> If China declares war to Europe, it would mean war. And in war you dont trade.






Are you seriously comparing Germany in 1939 to China in 2022.

China is FAR more important to the world economy than Germany was then.

Make no mistake EU would be totally economically devastated. China would suffer too but it is at least one country and so would be better able to ride it out than the 27 nations of the EU who would soon turn on each other as they face different degress of economic devastation.

We need to be realistic and that is there is no way to cut off China from the global economy without seriously damaging yourself too.


PS - Germany exports to China last year was over 120 billion US dollars. VW sold over 4 million vehicles in China last year.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505529322588807178


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## Apollon

reflecthofgeismar said:


> Apollon, you need to be prepared for war, in all instances.
> Europe, at least the rich counries with strong industrial base have become highly decadent, thats the problem with richness, as history proves this.
> It will take a long time to be mentally prepared and get the society-military cohesion.
> But that's not the main problem which I mean.
> Hippies, FFF, Gender gagag etc. are the products of the SAME ideological promoters who are now doing their massive anti-Russian propaganda.
> And I think YOU know that too but now you on their line in the case of Russia? That smells fishy, doesn't it?



Cant i be against Gender Gaga and at same time find Putin to be a laughable disgusting botox pancake face? One does not exclude the other i believe. It was Russia that threatens Europe.

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## Meengla

reflecthofgeismar said:


> In the end, the Russians and other Europeans have a common history and Russians will always be there, then under different leadership but you must find a neutral ground where both sides win.
> *Europe needs Russia vs the growing dragon.*
> I dunno why you don't wanna understand this ordinary fact.



Sensible post. I don't know why this @Apollon guy and some others here can't see that Russian destiny is with Europe. Yes, there are issues right now and that's partly because of who is in charge of Russia but after Putin is gone, we should expect a less nationalistic leader--or even another self-absorbed drunkard Yeltsin. And I also think Russian intentions, even under Putin, are too hyped up about taking NATO countries. Russia can't even handle Ukraine and here people are talking about Germany and Poland??

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## dBSPL

Amliunion said:


> The Propaganda war is Russians vs World.


So you are Russian also...

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505501913055436800


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## Apollon

UKBengali said:


> Are you seriously comparing Germany in 1939 to China in 2022.
> 
> China is FAR more important to the world economy than Germany was then.
> 
> Make no mistake EU would be totally economically devastated. China would suffer too but it is at least one country and so would be better able to ride it out than the 27 nations of the EU who would soon turn on each other as they face different degress of economic devastation.
> 
> We need to be realistic and that is there is no way to cut off China from the global economy without seriously damaging yourself too.



Doesnt need to. If China declares war to Europe we should escalate it nuclear anyways.



Meengla said:


> Sensible post. I don't know why this @Apollon guy and some others here can't see that Russian destiny is with Europe. Yes, there are issues right now and that's partly because of who is in charge of Russia but after Putin is gone, we should expect a less nationalistic leader--or even another self-absorbed drunkard Yeltsin. And I also think Russian intentions, even under Putin, are too hyped up about taking NATO countries. Russia can't even handle Ukraine and here people are talking about Germany and Poland??



Well thats the thing, how end this in Ukraine that our interests are also fullfilled? Its obvious that Europe will not allow Putin to get his way over Ukraine and vice versa. So we will see constant war there till nothing is left. At same time putin is burned as negtotiation partner. So how solve this?


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505533002440486917

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505533295005941760

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## kingQamaR

Todays losses is a Russian deputy commander of the Black Sea fleet, ANDREY PALIY, he was shot and killed in or around Mariupol what the hell was he doing knowing other Russian generals have been killed by snipers .and for the Ukrainian it’s a good tactic need to kill as many officers as possible, because the loss of the conscripts mean so little sadly In this conflict for the Russians . generals are regularly putting themselves at risk I’m guessing they not happy or trust at the dedication of there troops. and maybe we can never discount the possibility maybe Western Special Ops teams are integrated with Ukrainian teams - and takeout Russian commanders.

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## Meengla

Apollon said:


> Doesnt need to. If China declares war to Europe we should escalate it nuclear anyways.
> 
> 
> 
> Well thats the thing, how end this in Ukraine that our interests are also fullfilled? Its obvious that Europe will not allow Putin to get his way over Ukraine and vice versa. So we will see constant war there till nothing is left. At same time putin is burned as negtotiation partner. So how solve this?



Europe was reluctant and it were the Americans and the British who were gung ho about Ukraine. Biden, in particular, made arrogant remarks just days before the war about not accommodating Russian interests. A face saving should have been given to Putin and *now Putin is going to get at least neutrality AND some territories*. And you better pray it comes to that otherwise your expressed desire to subdue Russia right now is unlikely to come to fruition. My advice: Make peace and bide your time until Putin goes away. Otherwise, you are playing with fire that can burn Europe far and wide.

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## reflecthofgeismar

Apollon said:


> Cant i be against Gender Gaga and at same time find Putin to be a laughable disgusting botox pancake face? One does not exclude the other i believe. It was Russia that threatens Europe.


Sure you can but you don't do it on a healthy level without the panic-making hypocritical media.
Russia is - thb - not so strong (conventionally). The problem is, WE are weaker.
Easy fact imo.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505450687940939779


dBSPL said:


> So you are Russian also...



No. Mate, I am amongst the minority who supports Russia. I believe this is a Proxy War between US & Russia and Ukranians been used as BAIT. 

To be honest, I appreciate Germany, France & Turkey's role to seek end to this war via Diplomacy. I pray that Peace Prevails.

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## Apollon

Russian national airline Aeroflot closed permanently all stations in Europe. Which means Aeroflot ceases to exist in Europe and most likely doesnt expect to enter Europe anytime soon. Experts say this is s further step towards the death of russian aviation, since Aeroflot is now in its last breath. Several managers left and Aeroflot starts to collapse internal. It is said that Putin was caught totally by suprise as Europe banned all russian aircrafts.









Aeroflot schließt sämtliche europäische Stationen | reisetopia


Aeroflot geht einen weiteren drastischen Schritt und schließt alle europäischen Stationen. Was es damit auf sich hat und welche Konsequenzen sich ergeben.




reisetopia.de







reflecthofgeismar said:


> Sure you can but you don't do it on a healthy level without the panic-making hypocritical media.
> Russia is - thb - not so strong (conventionally). The problem is, WE are weaker.
> Easy fact imo.



I think if Ukraine proves something, than that Russia is incredible weak. Thats a military that no advanced nation must fear. I agree on that

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## dBSPL

-Darling, what are we going to have for dinner tonight?

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## Viet

EvoluXon said:


> Russia is headache of EU not US.. It is well documented in US intel reports that they see China as sole threat against their world order..Their indo pacific strategy is main concern and pivotal ...Do you think Russia has just started a war in anger? NATO has been expanding since many years Russia did not take action then. Now russo-sino alliance thought its best time to counter US global order and for China to keep US at bay from indo pacific .. we dont experience shift in global order in short period of time.. Effects will take time may be 10 - 30 years . Global order has to change in favor of china with this war or without this war..but this war more specifically Russia will expedite the process of Global order shift ...so China has to back Russia in any case.. Actually Russia is China's Ukraine but with more power, lethal, effective and hot headed . even at the expense of liquidation of Russia, China will take it with no worries untill its objectives are met. Got it ..


If Germany didn’t refuse Ukraine assessment to NATO in 2008, the war would not happen today. Ukraine is defenseless thus Putin sees it as easy prey. He takes Crime, he takes Donbaz, he starts the war to take whole Ukraine. Many see Germany is the main culprit.

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## Vergennes

According to Turkey, Russia and Ukraine are close to an agreement on the "fundamental issues."

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## Meengla

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505450687940939779
> 
> 
> No. Mate, I am amongst the minority who supports Russia. I believe this is a Proxy War between US & Russia and Ukranians been used as BAIT.
> 
> To be honest, I appreciate Germany, France & Turkey's role to seek end to this war via Diplomacy. I pray that Peace Prevails.



I had posted that snapshot image of the NY Times front page yesterday!! It is possible that despite so many losses, Russia would gain enough to strike a hard bargain. Wars maybe 'won' a thousand times in social media but needs to be 'won' only once on the ground!

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## dBSPL

Vergennes said:


> According to Turkey, Russia and Ukraine are close to an agreement on the "fundamental issues."


Foreign Affairs is working really hard on this, but it is very difficult to get results without flexing some of the prerequisites from both sides.


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## Apollon

Meengla said:


> Europe was reluctant and it were the Americans and the British who were gung ho about Ukraine. Biden, in particular, made arrogant remarks just days before the war about not accommodating Russian interests. A face saving should have been given to Putin and *now Putin is going to get at least neutrality AND some territories*. And you better pray it comes to that otherwise your expressed desire to subdue Russia right now is unlikely to come to fruition. My advice: Make peace and bide your time until Putin goes away. Otherwise, you are playing with fire that can burn Europe far and wide.



I know Europe was reluctant at first and thats the main problem. Putin did not expect Europe to act which encouraged his attack. But as he attacked the european resolve was extremly hard with basicly declaration of economic war to Russia. If the EU had made clear from beginning what they intend to do, im sure Putin would not have attacked. Unfortunately we are governed by idiots who first appeased and then pulled out the economic nuke on day one. 

If i have a conflict with someone i cant act all soft and the suddenly punch all his teeth out. That was our crucial mistake. 

From those imbeciles on top. Nobody has read Klausewitz.

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## vizier

Meengla said:


> Its offensive slowed, Russia uses long-range missiles to devastating effect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even as the Russian ground advance on key targets including Kyiv and Odessa remains stalled, it has used long-range rockets in recent days to devastating effect against the Ukrainian military and infrastructure.
> 
> As the war grinds on, the strikes are a reminder of how Russia’s vastly superior armaments give it a distinct advantage, even as what was meant to be a lightning blitz to take out the Ukrainian government turns into a grueling war of attrition.
> 
> In the first week of the war, it is not clear how many Russian strikes hit their targets, but Piotr Lukasiewicz, an analyst at Polityka Insight, a Warsaw-based research institute, said that they did serious damage to Ukraine’s command and control centers.
> 
> “They disabled an important headquarters and communications center in the beginning with precision strikes,” he said.
> 
> Just as the Russians are plagued by logistical and resupply issues, the Ukrainians are struggling to replace the stationary systems that the Russians have destroyed or disabled.
> 
> “Gradually Ukrainians are losing their radars or warning systems,” Mr. Lukasiewicz said.
> 
> The Russians also have shown that their weapons can hit with precision. A strike on a barracks in Mykolaiv on Friday that was housing 200 marines, killing dozens, was among the deadliest of the war. It also came with little warning, according to the mayor, Oleksandr Senkevich, with no air alarms sounding. The strike raised questions about Ukrainian tactics and why they would have concentrated so many soldiers in one location on the front lines.



This war showed even if there is asymmetric advantege in certain defensive weapons like atgms manpads etc. long range weapons can still reduce any static element like barracks depots, airfields and similar.

Instead of larger bulky sam systems, mobile-towed medium altitude sams specialized against pgms,long range cruise missiles would be favored more which can be more easily replaced and transferred when taken out unlike S300 variants. Those cant take out hypersonic missiles currently but for bulk numbers of the systems like calibr,tomahawk they can be effective. Limited effectiveness to high altitude threats as well and arm measures like giraffe radars.






Drones also seem to be still launched from makeshift runways. However there are other methods that can be applicable to drones as well.

Smaller drones like TB-2 can be modified to be launched by catapult-rocket assist and recovered by arrestor hook + short-runway
They are pretty slow at landing and arrestor hook would slow it down more so a very short runway would be sufficient in my opinion with an arrestor hook.
Armored vehicle launched bridge/drone-runway can be an option in my opinion. Several vehicles can make a short runways with an arrestor hook.





__





Armoured vehicle-launched bridge


An armoured vehicle-launched bridge (AVLB) [1] is a combat support vehicle, sometimes regarded as a subtype of military engineering vehicle, designed to assist militaries in rapidly deploying tanks and other armoured fighting vehicles across gap-type obstacles, such as (and primarily) rivers. The AV




thereaderwiki.com












M60 AVLB - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org











A mobile runway for light drones would negate any attack even hypersonic since it is continiously on the move.

Also for example ZEL can be a future alternative for launching adapting drones for non-runway situations.









Zero-length launch - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Why Germany developed and cancelled the F-104 ZELL program​




Near future interceptor a2a drones which would obviously be much lighter than fighter aircraft and carry much less and only a2a payload so they can be launched by Zel much easier than cold war era planes from frontlines and land on protected short runways behind the frontlines with arrestor hook then recovered and launch again. Transportation would be an issue but if landing sites numbers are high, or highways are very long to not to be taken at once by cruise missiles they can travel to the next launch site from air and launched from Zel platforms on the ground.



Also initial concept for the interceptor was Mat landing. An inflatable mat that is carried around with vehicles. Manned landing became a problem but unmanned landing would not make much problems.



The Zero-Length Launch Fighter

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## thetutle

Foinikas said:


> He's fought with half the forum. I wasn't following it all,but first he pissed off the Persians by insulting them,then he started insulting the Chinese and their leaders. Then he fought with other people.
> 
> The war in Ukraine is bad. Orthodox are killing Orthodox and the Russians and Ukrainians are brothers. Imagine Czechs invading Slovakia.
> 
> Personally,I believe Russia,Belarus and Ukraine should unite again. But a lot of people in Ukraine want the money and "progress" of the West. They want LGBT rights,feminism and liberalism. They want more independence. They want to forget the Russian identity of theirs and many of them want to forget their Slavic culture and become more "Europeans".
> 
> All that is because of the poverty and oppression they had endured under the communist tyranny,but also because of the influence of USA and Western Europe after the fall of communism.
> 
> So their leaders are acting like so many in the ex-Eastern Bloc:
> 
> They want to join NATO and the EU to get money,new weapons and to become a "progressive" society.
> 
> One thing that you might notice is that most governments in Europe are "centrist". They are almost all the same. Politically correct,promoting LGBT rights,feminism,extreme secularism and atheism,refugees and capitalism.
> 
> There are a few countries who resist that. Hungary is one,Poland used to be one,Russia and Belarus are the ones who resist the most.
> 
> Germany had no problem with the Russians,they wanted peaceful trading. France wanted stability in Europe as well.
> 
> But the Americans and the British...well,they live too far from Russia to care,they have all these buffer States between them. The Baltics also insisted...and we ended up having almost every country bordering Russia in Europe,to become a NATO member. And then there was Ukraine. The one girl you tell someone not to mess with. The girl next door that you tell the guy from the other side of the neighborhood that she's off limits. That even if she doesn't want you now,he shouldn't hit on her either. He has a lot of girlfriends. Oh he can have almost any woman he likes. But no,he goes there and knocks on her door and flirts with her. Because he wants them all.
> 
> There could be peace in this world,but some countries really want everything. There could have been peace in Palestine if Israel moved back to the pre-1967 borders and recognized Palestine.
> 
> Now you have idiots like Biden and Johnson and those behind them,doing the same things that Bush and Blair did. And you have Zelensky who is the useful idiot.
> 
> But then again,Britain,France and the Ottoman Empire went to war against the Russians in Crimea. The Russians lost,but all countries suffered heavy casualties.
> 
> View attachment 825619
> 
> 
> Greek volunteers in Sevastopol,1854. Crimean War.


Since people started counting populations, in the 1700's Crimea was 80% Tatar muslim. Only after genocide and conquest did Russians become a majority. Crimea is in no way Russian. and noone in the world recognises it as so. Nor will they. 

Crimea is more greek than it is Russian. Greece has a greater claim on it than russia.

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## Ali_Baba

Putin loses ANOTHER top commander: Black Sea Fleet captain, 51, is ‘shot dead near Mariupol’​








Russian Black Sea Fleet captain, 51, is 'shot dead near Mariupol'


Ukraine claimed today that its forces had shot dead the deputy commander of Russia's Black Sea Fleet, first rank captain Andrey Paliy, 51, (pictured) in another significant blow to Vladimir Putin's forces.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## jhungary

This say it all about the shortcoming of Russian Armor






"You skim out on a $40,000 component on a multi-millions dollar vehicle, and you got stuck in the mud"

He is talking about tires, and what he said make a lot of sense.


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## Meengla

Apollon said:


> I know Europe was reluctant at first and thats the main problem. Putin did not expect Europe to act which encouraged his attack. But as he attacked the european resolve was extremly hard with basicly declaration of economic war to Russia. If the EU had made clear from beginning what they intend to do, im sure Putin would not have attacked. Unfortunately we are governed by idiots who first appeased and then pulled out the economic nuke on day one.
> 
> If i have a conflict with someone i cant act all soft and the suddenly punch all his teeth out. That was our crucial mistake.
> 
> From those imbeciles on top. Nobody has read Klausewitz.



I don't think leaders in Germany or France were 'appeasing'. Those two countries know all too well what another war on the European continent would mean. The German naval officer who suggested to accommodate Putin spoke what was the 'real' position of western European countries. Also almost all of European countries have the NATO umbrella so this talk of Putin marching into Poland or Germany was not based on reality. Plus there would be economic consequences for Europe. Ukraine was not as important to western Europe as made out to be. But they were arm-twisted by the Americans. Perhaps Americans privately told those leaders if you don't follow then you will be on your own! Perhaps they were told that they would portrayed as the Chamberlains of 2022 by the powerful American media machine?

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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> I think you and @thetutle have a lot of great insight about eastern Europe although you two are often on different sides. Reading you two's opinion--as from @dBSPL are very good from that region.


We are always on different sides. He's a greek, orthodox supremacist, who hates turks and muslims. Hates Bosnians too probably. and seems to hate his fellow orthodox ukranians because they dont want to be enslaved by a gangster state.

I can understand greeks hating muslims, but why hate the ukranians for wanting freedom and democracy. Greece has freedom and democracy, they choose NATO and the west, why cant ukranians have what greeks have?


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## Primus

Im finding it hard to believe that UKR is killing off so many top commanders and generals of the Russian military. Something sus about it all. These are similar claims to the ones Armenia made in the NK2020 war

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## Meengla

thetutle said:


> We are always on different sides. He's a greek, orthodox supremacist, who hates turks and muslims. Hates Bosnians too probably. and seems to hate his fellow orthodox ukranians because they dont want to be enslaved by a gangster state.
> 
> I can understand greeks hating muslims, but why hate the ukranians for wanting freedom and democracy. Greece has freedom and democracy, they choose NATO and the west, why cant ukranians have what greeks have?



I honestly can't dispute the rights of a sovereign nation to choose its destiny. No one would want to be part of the cold, dark country like Russia. I have been calling Russia 'The Sick Man of Europe' in this thread. But, just like Americans have exercised their military power against sovereign nations, Russia is doing the same. It is what it is. Pakistanis are or should be neutral in this conflict except for some perceived gains if China comes ahead from this conflict. 
Time would have sorted this all out--as I keep repeating here.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505542036698673152


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## Apollon

Meengla said:


> I don't think leaders in Germany or France were 'appeasing'. Those two countries know all too well what another war on the European continent would mean. The German naval officer who suggested to accommodate Putin spoke what was the 'real' position of western European countries. Also almost all of European countries have the NATO umbrella so this talk of Putin marching into Poland or Germany was not based on reality. Plus there would be economic consequences for Europe. Ukraine was not as important to western Europe as made out to be. But they were arm-twisted by the Americans. Perhaps Americans privately told those leaders if you don't follow then you will be on your own! Perhaps they were told that they would portrayed as the Chamberlains of 2022 by the powerful American media machine?



As a powerful entity one must be clear. 

If i dont care about Ukarine then tell it. If i do care, then say consequences.

What i cant do is to be completly indifferent and basicly give Putin the impression that we dont care and its obvious he believed that...and then within one day basicly start nuclear economic attacks on them. Insiders say Putin was and still is shocked about the European economic attack. He was not prepared and its devastating effect.

So what we have now is that Putin completly miscalculated. Even the biggest supporters of Russia say that this war is a complete failure. We have Europe and Russia with knife at each others throats and trampling over Ukraine, which in the process is destroyed. And there is no way for Europe and Russia to get out of this deadlock. We fear that if we remove the knife, our throat gets cut and the Russians think same. USA and China are not neutral and both sides dont trust them. 

Putin now claims nonstop Europe wants destroy Russia and Europe constantly says Russia wants destroy Europe. 

Whats needed to solve this is an outside player that is neutral and slowly removes each others knifes and pushs both apart.

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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> I honestly don't know enough to say anything to support or oppose that viewpoint. I am aware of the 'Nazi' dimension about Ukraine but I tend to think, in a nation of 40+ million, a few hundred or a few thousand extreme racists are a fringe. And they seem to be present in just about EVERY white country, going by what happened in the mosque attack in New Zealand recently.
> What I believe is that the Western Civilization is a major attractant to humanity, regardless of religion, culture, races....


this is total nonsense abut aryans. there is no such thing. they are Afghans and North Indians, noone cares about that. Ukranians are slavs culturally. Ethnically they are a mix of all people in europe to some degree. Probably closest to polish people. Then Russians. Ukraine is the birthplace of slavic people apparently. Most slavs in balkans come from Ukraine. I am sure my ancestors come from Ukraine. maybe 900 years ago. 

Nazis are irrelevant to Ukraine. there are more hindus in Ukraine than nazis.

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## Amliunion

Ukrainian media confirms the loss of the MiG-29 fighter of the Ukrainian Air Force & Major Stepan Tarabalka — He was a MiG-29 fighter pilot. As reported by Russian MoD on March 15 

Source: ASB Military News Telegram


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## Meengla

Apollon said:


> As a powerful entity one must be clear.
> 
> If i dont care about Ukarine then tell it. If i do care, then say consequences.
> 
> What i cant do is to be completly indifferent and basicly give Putin the impression that we dont care and its obvious he believed that...and then within one day basicly start nuclear economic attacks on them. Insiders say Putin was and still is shocked about the European economic attack. He was not prepared and its devastating effect.
> 
> So what we have now is that Putin completly miscalculated. Even the biggest supporters of Russia say that this war is a complete failure. We have Europe and Russia with knife at each others throats and trampling over Ukraine, which in the process is destroyed. And there is no way for Europe and Russia to get out of this deadlock. We fear that if we remove the knife, our throat gets cut and the Russians think same. USA and China are not neutral and both sides dont trust them.
> 
> Putin now claims nonstop Europe wants destroy Russia and Europe constantly says Russia wants destroy Europe.
> 
> Whats needed to solve this is an outside player that is neutral and slowly removes each others knifes and pushs both apart.



Interesting post and I agree for the most part, especially that neither Europe should trust America nor Russia should trust China. Those are two relatively remote powers and who knows what kinds of calculations and mutual adjustments they make behind the scene--as great powers do.
The conflict needs a neutral party. Even Turkey is not totally neutral but is probably the best one available for mediation.

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## Deliorman

Huffal said:


> Im finding it hard to believe that UKR is killing off so many top commanders and generals of the Russian military. Something sus about it all. These are similar claims to the ones Armenia made in the NK2020 war




Knowing the Russian track record from places like Chechnya and even Georgia (where they fought a tiny country and finished the war fast) and Syria (where their primary task was to destroy cities with their Air Force and use Wagner on the ground) it is not surprising to me at all how sloppy Russian tactics and performance is. Human life and the safety of their personnel means nothing. With lack of proper communication and logistics on the field this problem gets even bigger.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505328427301228548


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## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505328427301228548



Dude seriously this gets old. Putin acts all like Hitler in 1939, says bullshit about some alleged russian race, homeland and back into Reich propaganda and then claims Nazis. Putin is a Nazi himself, his Wagner troops also have SS runes.


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## Amliunion

Stepnoye aftermath:
.


Spoiler: Graphic 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505548353861562368

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russian bums captured Javelin in Kiev region. Sent to Moscow for reverse engineering and mass production.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505506099528667141

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## Wergeland 2.0

ProudPak said:


> Calling out a racist is not an insult. It asking you to be better. Hating a people simply because they are a different colour or race or religion is disgusting and belongs to ancient times not 2022. So readjust your meter and stop blaming me for calling you out as a ra ist European. You must know what the rest of Europe thinks of Greeks.... so being labelled as you are by the Europeans isn't nice and then you go and do the same to others. Shame



He is a indian.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> Its obvious Europe sees Russian agression as substantial threat .



And vice versa, considering Europe's very big population.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

If this agreement is enacted, then Putin's objectives are being realized and agreed to by the Ukrainian dealership. 👇



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505537887214968834

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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> I honestly can't dispute the rights of a sovereign nation to choose its destiny. No one would want to be part of the cold, dark country like Russia. I have been calling Russia 'The Sick Man of Europe' in this thread. But, just like Americans have exercised their military power against sovereign nations, Russia is doing the same. It is what it is. Pakistanis are or should be neutral in this conflict except for some perceived gains if China comes ahead from this conflict.
> Time would have sorted this all out--as I keep repeating here.


Your view is totally legitimate. But it can not be in Pakistans interest to have a russia which dominates europe, threatens its muslim neighbours like Azerbaijan, Kazakstan, and all of central Asia. Russias ambition is to take European lands and muslim lands. This can not be in Pakistans interests. 

Its tempting to enjoy the west getting some of its own medicine, I am sure, but the cost of that medicine to muslims in the region and central Asia is very very high.

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## Apollon

Wergeland 2.0 said:


> He is a indian.



Im Greek / German.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505534718401560581

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## Apollon

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505534718401560581



No risk, no fun. Majority of finlands population wants to join NATO. Putin showed in Ukraine how weak Russias military is, so we welcome Finland in NATO.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> If Germany didn’t refuse Ukraine assessment to NATO in 2008, the war would not happen today. Ukraine is defenseless thus Putin sees it as easy prey. He takes Crime, he takes Donbaz, he starts the war to take whole Ukraine. Many see Germany is the main culprit.



Germany has a lot to answer for and many - correctly - hold German decisions as an ingredient into what is happening. Once this is over(one way or the other) - there will be a lot of discussions on German decision making and the consequences of those decisions..


----------



## Apollon

Ali_Baba said:


> Germany has a lot to answer for and many - correctly - hold German decisions as an ingredient into what is happening. Once this is over(one way or the other) - there will be a lot of discussions on German decision making and the consequences of those decisions..



Well this happenes when you have a weak women like Merkel as chancellor. She decided never anything and just let things develop. I would go so far to check her finances for russian payments in the past.


----------



## UKBengali

Apollon said:


> Im Greek / German.





Are you sure that you are not that Italian dude as you speak exactly the same as he used to do before he got banned and left the forum years ago?


----------



## thetutle

Foinikas said:


> But isn't that why they have all these millions of refugees and immigrants the Middle-East,Africa and Afghanistan?
> 
> We could solve the problem by giving South Ukraine back to Greece 😋
> 
> View attachment 825628
> View attachment 825630
> View attachment 825631


You can have it. I would support it. Greece is no thereat to anyone.


----------



## Apollon

UKBengali said:


> Are you sure that you are not that Italian dude as you speak exactly the same as he used to do before he got banned and left the forum years ago?



Sorry ro disappoint you. But im 1.85m tall and not an italian dwarf.


----------



## dBSPL

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> If this agreement is enacted, then Putin's objectives are being realized and agreed to by the Ukrainian dealership. 👇
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505537887214968834


+ Turkey will have ceasefire observer status.

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## UKBengali

Apollon said:


> Sorry ro disappoint you. But im 1.85m tall and not an italian dwarf.





Did you not also mention that you were an athlete as well?

He claimed to be a body-builder and showed pics of himself on this forum.

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## thetutle

FuturePAF said:


> So now is the time to move fast, especially for the Turks. A Trans-Caspian pipeline could supply a lot of gas to Europe and build slot of influence for the Turks. Once a pipeline is built it will open the way for Turkey to work with Central Asia countries for more trade across the Caspian, hopefully culminating in a undersea rail tunnel, the major sign of Turkish influence and connection in Central Asia, should Russian influence to block it fail (a few years ago, Russia and Iran agreed that undersea boundaries of the Caspian are like those of a SEA, and on the surface it is that of a Lake, a very important difference)
> 
> This would also benefit Pakistan and Gwadar as a rail link under the Caspian would make a rail link from Karachi and Gwadar to Quetta and onward to Turkmenistan via Southern Afghanistan more economically viable.
> 
> It would also allow the Chinese BRI rail route via Kazakhstan bypassing Russia, although China may not want to send that signal to Russia, so they would just Benefit if Turkey built it for itself and let China use it, just in case.
> 
> View attachment 825632
> 
> 
> Turkey should also look at a way to create an Qatar-Turkey Pipeline via Iraq, as a way to stabilize Iraq on terms favorable to Turkey (think Kurds) and bring Iraq out of Iranian influence. All efforts the EU should support for their own good.
> 
> Turkey could really come out the third winner from this war, as it maybe allowed to rejoin the F-35 program as well as get its F-16s upgraded in the interim, considering it aid to Ukraine. Hopefully, Turkey could put in a good word with the US to allow a resumption of T-129 deliveries to Pakistan with the American Engines as well as a Turkish upgrade of the PAF’s F-16s. I know it’s a stretch but now is the best time for a Turkey to make its moves.


Dont expect Russian borders to stay the same in the Caspian. They will take the Kazakh casein coastline and claim it as theirs. Maybe even Azerbaijan, but im not certain of that one.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505277085274853376


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## Apollon

Putin wore this italian luxury jacket worth 12.500 € at his propaganda show in Moscow where he preached his people that luxury is not evrything.

Its almost like satire


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504830669779869701

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## Meengla

thetutle said:


> Your view is totally legitimate. But it can not be in Pakistans interest to have a russia which dominates europe, threatens its muslim neighbours like Azerbaijan, Kazakstan, and all of central Asia. Russias ambition is to take European lands and muslim lands. This can not be in Pakistans interests.
> 
> Its tempting to enjoy the west getting some of its own medicine, I am sure, but the cost of that medicine to muslims in the region and central Asia is very very high.



I don't think Russia, even under Putin, is as expansionist as you and others are making it out to be. Russia doesn't even have the capabilities. But we can't talk about what's in the minds of Russian leadership--it would be guessing too much. 
Coming to Pakistan, the way I look at it, a* weakened Russia* is in Pakistan's interest because of Russia's more reliance on Pakistan's key ally China. And looking at some Indian perspectives, it is India's fears--a weakened Russia too reliant on China. IF Russia decides to not Veto anti-Indian UNSC resolutions then India would be too reliant on the West--and we all know there is no 'West' without America and America would make India compromise too much for a Veto. Plus Indian defense industry is still too dependent on the Russian military equipment.
Still, on the whole, Pakistan can afford to be neutral.


----------



## dBSPL

newb3e said:


> western fan boys will find it hard to twist it as Western backed Jewish clowns victory!


If the current Ukrainian parliament survives and Russia withdraws from the occupied territories, that is, if Ukraine's territorial integrity is preserved, it will be a win-win for both sides(I mean Ukraine and Russia).


----------



## Apollon

UKBengali said:


> Did you not also mention that you were an athlete as well?
> 
> He claimed to be a body-builder and showed pics of himself on this forum.



I said i dont compete with russians in my sport because of the war. Im not a bodybuilder. I do track and field athletics (if thats the english word?)


----------



## thetutle

Meengla said:


> I dont know what you are trying to say there?
> I think, subconsciously, perhaps, there is a 'Lebensraum' project going on in Europe. Hitler is demonized, and singled out but I believe he had a LOT of ideological support in western Europe and even in America until he was a strategic threat. The Soviets, even under Stalin, were angels in comparison. I know I am saying something very controversial here but I don't care! It were the Soviets who provided refuge to Jewish people while the all-so-holy West were persecuting Jews and/or denying them sanctuary.
> The Victor writes the History. But not all of us to have cower our intelligence and accept that account of History. Otherwise, History repeats itself in some endless cycles of wars.


The west, because of Churchill probably made a historic mistake in deciding to destroy Nazi Germany before the Soviet Union. 

I dont know why they did this. They probably perceived Nazis as being the more immediate threat with better technology.

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## Amliunion

Slow & Steady: 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505554978894712843


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## Amliunion

Ukrainian soldiers coming under artillery fire after inspecting a damaged AN/TPQ-36 counterbattery radar. 


Spoiler: Graphic 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505551726488731653


----------



## Dustom999

Deliorman said:


> Knowing the Russian track record from places like Chechnya and even Georgia (where they fought a tiny country and finished the war fast) and Syria (where their primary task was to destroy cities with their Air Force and use Wagner on the ground) it is not surprising to me at all how sloppy Russian tactics and performance is. Human life and the safety of their personnel means nothing. With lack of proper communication and logistics on the field this problem gets even bigger.


So you do realise that russia can flatten entire cities . Wonder why they aren't doing it to Ukrainian cities? Putin isn't as dumb as west think he is, it's a calculated move that will alter the europe as we know it in forthcoming years. 
Ukrain with all the might of western intelligence platforms to feed information about Russian movement and tactics is still crumbling. 
Western media is focussed on - oh look 6 tanks destroyed, 15 people captured everyday, not telling the world 400 sq kilometer were lost.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505550833961910277

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## Meengla

thetutle said:


> The west, because of Churchill probably made a historic mistake in deciding to destroy Nazi Germany before the Soviet Union.
> 
> I dont know why they did this. They probably perceived Nazis as being the more immediate threat with better technology.



This is one of Patrick J. Buchannan's biggest lament: The West self-destructing from the World Wars. 
Hard to pinpoint why the West went after Germany than against an already expansionist ideological foe like the USSR. I tend to think there were lobbies in the West--powerful, moneyed lobbies, which had been steering the Western policies since at least around the First World War and the Second World War was but an extension of the same direction. But I am just guessing.


----------



## Apollon

Dustom999 said:


> So you do realise that russia can flatten entire cities . Wonder why they aren't doing it to Ukrainian cities? Putin isn't as dumb as west think he is, it's a calculated move that will alter the europe as we know it in forthcoming years.
> Ukrain with all the might of western intelligence platforms to feed information about Russian movement and tactics is still crumbling.
> Western media is focussed on - oh look 6 tanks destroyed, 15 people captured everyday, not telling the world 400 sq kilometer were lost.



You forgot to mention that russia is crumbling faster on all aspects of life.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505557759554912257


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## Vergennes

Dustom999 said:


> So you do realise that russia can flatten entire cities . Wonder why they aren't doing it to Ukrainian cities? Putin isn't as dumb as west think he is, it's a calculated move that will alter the europe as we know it in forthcoming years.



What a load of BS. Look at Mariupol,Kharkiv to name a few. A calculated move my @ss. Everyone fooled Putin about the Ukrainian adventure,he will never admit that his adventure is currently a failure.

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## NA71

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505550833961910277


Two trucks and a tank is not convoy


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505506228482588673

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## Dustom999

Russian had to choose worst time of the year to invade, weather moving away from snow. 
Melting ground becomes soggy, why did they choose this time, could have waited for 2 months. 
Ukrain was discussing security pact with usa and overnite ( literally in 24 hours) US air defence and tactical missiles would have moved to Ukraine. 
Behind the curtain USA was just about to deploy and cause major headache for Russia. So Russia just took preemptive action.

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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> This is one of Patrick J. Buchannan's biggest lament: The West self-destructing from the World Wars.
> Hard to pinpoint why the West went after Germany than against an already expansionist ideological foe like the USSR. I tend to think there were lobbies in the West--powerful, moneyed lobbies, which had been steering the Western policies since at least around the First World War and the Second World War was but an extension of the same direction. But I am just guessing.


Could be, or maybe they just saw that the Soviet Union had about 5% of the population with proper toilets, and figured, better deal with germans first before they make some super weapon and destroy us all.


----------



## NA71

Not a single NATO soldier foot in.....who fooled who

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## thetutle

Apollon said:


> Putins hidden wife and children are in Switzerland btw. Just you know. Will be interesting to see his reaction when they are in custody.


I find this hard to believe. he's not that stupid. is he?


----------



## Deliorman

Dustom999 said:


> *So you do realise that russia can flatten entire cities . Wonder why they aren't doing it to Ukrainian cities? * Putin isn't as dumb as west think he is, it's a calculated move that will alter the europe as we know it in forthcoming years.
> Ukrain with all the might of western intelligence platforms to feed information about Russian movement and tactics is still crumbling.
> Western media is focussed on - oh look 6 tanks destroyed, 15 people captured everyday, not telling the world 400 sq kilometer were lost.




Dude, are you serious? So according to you Russians are not targeting Ukrainian cities? You say that with a straight face while Mariupol and Kharkiv are basically being destroyed the same way Aleppo was and civilian targets all around Ukraine are being targeted every single day.

Nobody in the West lives in a fairy tale where Ukraine kicks Russia's *** and suffers no losses at all. Everybody here knows that the situation for the civilians and the Ukrainian forces is very serious yet we know that with Ukraine the Russian bear swallowed a porcupine with poisonous needles... All we do now is to pour even more poison in her mouth while it tries to chew it while risking to get a few scratches. It is worth it.

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## Meengla

thetutle said:


> Could be, or maybe they just saw that the Soviet Union had about 5% of the population with proper toilets, and figured, better deal with germans first before they make some super weapon and destroy us all.



I really think Hitler admired the Anglos a lot and simultaneously hated the communists a lot. Left to his own, he would have just focused on the USSR. The megalomania theory, attributed to him, are not unique when you think that America claims an entire hemisphere for itself and Japan, as well as the British Empire, were also expansionist. We come to wrong conclusions when we get the victors' versions of history. And by keep coming to wrong conclusions we, as we human beings, keep repeating the same mistakes and keep causing sufferings as happening in the world right now. 
We are too close to the WW 2 to know 'the real truth' about the causes of the war. Give it a few more decades. *I am going to stop about the causes of the WW2 so as to not derail the thread anymore. *


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505561176696147973

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## Dustom999

Deliorman said:


> Dude, are you serious? So according to you Russians are not targeting Ukrainian cities? You say that with a straight face while Mariupol and Kharkiv are basically being destroyed the same way Aleppo was and civilian targets all around Ukraine are being targeted every single day.
> 
> Nobody in the West lives in a fairy tale where Ukraine kicks Russia's *** and suffers no losses at all. Everybody here knows that the situation for the civilians and the Ukrainian forces is very serious yet we know that with Ukraine the Russian bear swallowed a porcupine with poisonous needles... All we do now is to pour even more poison in her mouth while it tries to chew it while risking to get a few scratches. It is worth it.


In 2016 Russia had inventory of 180000 500kg unguided ammunition. 230kg was something around 44000.
Basically ww2 era bombs!
Bombers flying high, un challanged can drop them on ukrain any time of choosing. They will toast anything living without nuclear radiation.
And if some how they start loosing they will toast areas with low yield nuclear devices!
You think west or u will stop them! Consider stopping them! And consider destruction of all of living form from earth.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505562604688887813

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## Vergennes

"Ukrainians are welcoming russian liberators as heroes!!!!"

Kherson


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505525173927268353

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## Dustom999

Apollon said:


> You forgot to mention that russia is crumbling faster on all aspects of life.


What are those aspects?


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## Apollon

Dustom999 said:


> In 2016 Russia had inventory of 180000 500kg unguided ammunition. 230kg was something around 44000.
> Basically ww2 era bombs!
> Bombers flying high, un challanged can drop them on ukrain any time of choosing. They will toast anything living without nuclear radiation.
> And if some how they start loosing they will toast areas with low yield nuclear devices!
> You think west or u will stop them! Consider stopping them! And consider destruction of all of living form from earth.



Putin tried to save his little yacht from sanctions. If you think the kremlin pancake face risks nuclear war but worries about his tiny yacht...you lost reality


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## Apollon

Dustom999 said:


> What are those aspects?



Economy collapse. Russia stock Exchange is 100% loss. 

Energy infrastructure to Europe build in last 70 years... worthless... obsolete in 2023. Russia aviation... collapsed. Russian connection to Europe build in 1000 years... completly wiped out. Even opera singers kicked out.

And what for? Burned land and ash.


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505565081437888532


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Zala drone footage


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505506311919779848


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## Dustom999

Apollon said:


> Economy collapse. Russia stock Exchange is 100% loss.
> 
> Energy infrastructure to Europe build in last 70 years... worthless... obsolete in 2023. Russia aviation... collapsed. Russian connection to Europe build in 1000 years... completly wiped out. Even opera singers kicked out.
> 
> And what for? Burned land and ash.


Economy isn't a days thing! Let's see how it features in 5years from now . It will probably boom.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> Economy collapse. Russia stock Exchange is 100% loss.
> 
> Energy infrastructure to Europe build in last 70 years... worthless... obsolete in 2023. Russia aviation... collapsed. Russian connection to Europe build in 1000 years... completly wiped out. Even opera singers kicked out.
> 
> And what for? Burned land and ash.



Not really. Russia has lotta gold. Gold is the only real money. The rest are all garbage.

Captured things for reverse engineering and mass production.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505505757860704261
TOS-1A artillery 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505505379534389248
Su-25SM3 CAS jet


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505505551459008517


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## Meengla

Dustom999 said:


> Economy isn't a days thing! Let's see how it features in 5years from now . It will probably boom.



A Russian revival is possible.
And Lavrov has very recently said something like Russia is giving up on Europe and is going to look east and south. He mentioned countries like China and India. Russia has truly immense natural resources and IF they make the right decisions then I see them more than survive--they might even thrive. The countries to the south of Russia have large human resources--something which is becoming more and more important in the world.

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## Amliunion

@Apollon This is from Pro Ukrainian Twitter account. Earlier, you were say it's Russian Propaganda:



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505566636350316545

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## Vergennes

Meengla said:


> A Russian revival is possible.
> And Lavrov has very recently said something like Russia is giving up on Europe and is going to look east and south. He mentioned countries like China and India. Russia has truly immense natural resources and IF they make the right decisions then I see them more than survive--they might even thrive. The countries to the south of Russia have large human resources--something which is becoming more and more important in the world.



It's hilarious if you think Russia and China will be on equal terms. China will buy Russia at bargain price,nothing else.

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## tower9

Amliunion said:


> @Apollon This is from Pro Ukrainian Twitter account. Earlier, you were say it's Russian Propaganda:
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505566636350316545


“Russia is losing but keeps taking more cities”.

God this propaganda is ridiculous. Granted, Russia is taking losses and things have not gone optimally but they are definitely going to win militarily. It’s the overall geopolitical situation that is up in the air. We will see how that turns out.

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## Meengla

Vergennes said:


> It's hilarious if you think Russia and China will be on equal terms. China will buy Russia at bargain price,nothing else.



I don't think I even implied that. I have been saying in this thread multiple times: China gains the most from this and America the next to gain.

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## Ali_Baba

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505534718401560581



Putins intentions cannot be trusted - period - and he risks the security of his country if Finland stays out - NATO is a cast iron guarantee. The political debate will happen in Finland - but the wrong decision may cost them their country.


----------



## Apollon

Dustom999 said:


> Economy isn't a days thing! Let's see how it features in 5years from now . It will probably boom.



It wont. Russia is a european country. Even in hardest cold war times they always wanted contact to Europe. For Europe its also a loss but i dont see how this can be repaired.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505568336444276736

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ukrainians captured RPG-30 which is latest RPG used by Russian bums in Ukraine. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505513030225911809
for reference RPG-30 









RPG-30 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Ali_Baba

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> If this agreement is enacted, then Putin's objectives are being realized and agreed to by the Ukrainian dealership. 👇
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505537887214968834



This is a very dangerous agreement if true - ie not being allowed to defend yourself by having a military means that Russia will take another nibble again - that is why they are so insistent on that clause. This is not "over" for Ukraine ...


----------



## tower9

Meengla said:


> I don't think I even implied that. I have been saying in this thread multiple times: China gains the most from this and America the next to gain.


IMO it is far too early to determine who will be gaining the most. This is probably just the start to a whole chain of events that will usher in an age of chaos for the world. Ukraine is definitely fucked. Europe will definitely accelerate its decline. Russia will definitely suffer as it reorients its economy from the sanctions. 

It is unclear how much the US will gain from this. I think geopolitically the US stands to gain but that’s different from how the American people will fare. As for China, it will have both opportunities and challenges from this situation but imo, China will accelerate its rise regardless of what happens. The reality is that China is already the most powerful nation state and other countries will just have to deal with it, regardless of how much they hate or deny this reality. China will keep pushing forward and will tackle whatever challenges it faces.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> It wont. Russia is a european country. Even in hardest cold war times they always wanted contact to Europe. For Europe its also a loss but i dont see how this can be repaired.



Europe is a political concept, not a physical concept. You can drive from Beijing to London in your car. The only countries of Europe you cannot drive to from Beijing in your car are Iceland and Ireland. By definition, Europe and Asia are one continent, not two separate continents. And those who say they are are racists.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505570463250100224


----------



## UKBengali

tower9 said:


> IMO it is far too early to determine who will be gaining the most. This is probably just the start to a whole chain of events that will usher in an age of chaos for the world. Ukraine is definitely fucked. Europe will definitely accelerate its decline. Russia will definitely suffer as it reorients its economy from the sanctions.
> 
> It is unclear how much the US will gain from this. I think geopolitically the US stands to gain but that’s different from how the American people will fare. As for China, it will have both opportunities and challenges from this situation but imo, China will accelerate its rise regardless of what happens. The reality is that China is already the most powerful nation state and other countries will just have to deal with it, regardless of how much they hate or deny this reality. China will keep pushing forward and will tackle whatever challenges it faces.






China is definitely now the most powerful economic state on the planet but still a fair way behind the US militarily, especially in navy.

It is better on land than USA but still somewhat behind in air, although I expect this gap to almost totally disappear over the next 10-15 years.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Su-35 armed with Kh-31 ground attack missiles


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505518863009599488


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505572006246457356

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

UKBengali said:


> China is definitely now the most powerful economic state on the planet but still a fair way behind the US, especially in navy.
> 
> It is better on land than USA but still somewhat behind in air, although I expect this gap to almost totally disappear over the next 10-15 years.



China is better in air. Plus, China is surrounded by natural land barriers. China is a natural land fortress. The only way to invade China is by sea. That is why navy is important for China.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505572257992785925


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Clashes in Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505526303428157448


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505359720399482880


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## dBSPL

Turkey's involvement in the Ukraine-Russia war, in a nutshell

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505105744630321153


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## Apollon

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Europe is a political concept, not a physical concept. You can drive from Beijing to London in your car. The only countries of Europe you cannot drive to from Beijing in your car are Iceland and Ireland. By definition, Europe and Asia are one continent, not two separate continents. And those who say they are are racists.



There is a new iron curtain in Europe now and thats all Putins fault.


----------



## tower9

UKBengali said:


> China is definitely now the most powerful economic state on the planet but still a fair way behind the US, especially in navy.
> 
> It is better on land than USA but still somewhat behind in air, although I expect this gap to almost totally disappear over the next 10-15 years.



When I say that China is the most powerful nation state, I'm not talking about military inventory. The US has had a humongous military budget for decades, China has just recently become equivalently sized as an economy, and even then, is spending a fraction of its budget on the military versus the US. 

What I mean is that China has the most capacity and ability of any country to adapt to extreme challenges and emerge victorious. China has the most educated human resources under its control, its system is disciplined and can orient society in a way that can handle major challenges during periods of chaos that the West simply can't. China is by far the greatest industrial superpower in the world, if it switched its economy to a war time footing, it would quickly surpass America's military inventory within 5 years. 

The West is still in denial about this reality. There is always this notion that as long as the West is hostile to China or if they deny China something, China will be on its way to collapse and will be put back into that little bottle and disappear. That's not going to happen. China has managed to revive as a great power and civilization, and is quickly becoming a developed country with immense resources. Think about a Germany or Japan but 10X bigger. China is here as the world's greatest nation state and will not be going away, the rest of the world will just have to adjust to this reality.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

tower9 said:


> IMO it is far too early to determine who will be gaining the most. This is probably just the start to a whole chain of events that will usher in an age of chaos for the world. Ukraine is definitely fucked. Europe will definitely accelerate its decline. Russia will definitely suffer as it reorients its economy from the sanctions.
> 
> It is unclear how much the US will gain from this. I think geopolitically the US stands to gain but that’s different from how the American people will fare. As for China, it will have both opportunities and challenges from this situation but imo, China will accelerate its rise regardless of what happens. The reality is that China is already the most powerful nation state and other countries will just have to deal with it, regardless of how much they hate or deny this reality. China will keep pushing forward and will tackle whatever challenges it faces.




China is nowhere near having the comprehensive national power the United States possesses. Not even close.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505385093485015041


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505386617737027586


----------



## Battlion25

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> If this agreement is enacted, then Putin's objectives are being realized and agreed to by the Ukrainian dealership. 👇
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505537887214968834



There is a catch in that which is simple and people are missing it.. They wanna keep Novorossiya and that these 4 requirements only counts for the parts they don't want


----------



## tower9

F-22Raptor said:


> China is nowhere near having the comprehensive national power the United States possesses. Not even close.



Keep telling yourself that. China is already the more powerful country. The events in the next two decades will only strengthen this statement not weaken it.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

tower9 said:


> When I say that China is the most powerful nation state, I'm not talking about military inventory. The US has had a humongous military budget for decades, China has just recently become equivalently sized as an economy, and even then, is spending a fraction of its budget on the military versus the US.
> 
> What I mean is that China has the most capacity and ability of any country to adapt to extreme challenges and emerge victorious. China has the most educated human resources under its control, its system is disciplined and can orient society in a way that can handle major challenges during periods of chaos that the West simply can't. China is by far the greatest industrial superpower in the world, if it switched its economy to a war time footing, it would quickly surpass America's military inventory within 5 years.
> 
> The West is still in denial about this reality. There is always this notion that as long as the West is hostile to China or if they deny China something, China will be on its way to collapse and will be put back into that little bottle and disappear. That's not going to happen. China has managed to revive as a great power and civilization, and is quickly becoming a developed country with immense resources. Think about a Germany or Japan but 10X bigger. China is here as the world's greatest nation state and will not be going away, the rest of the world will just have to adjust to this reality.



You talk like the west (USA and Europe) are not a superpower on its own regard. Its a multipolar world plain and simple.


----------



## tower9

Apollon said:


> You talk like the west (USA and Europe) are not a superpower on its own regard. Its a multipolar world plain and simple.



Undoubtedly, the West combined is still more powerful than China. But China is the most powerful single state, especially when you consider its capacity to achieve results. Either way, China is here to stay as a great power and will not be going anywhere, and that is my point. Just like the US emerged in the 19th century, China is here to stay.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> There is a new iron curtain in Europe now and thats all Putins fault.



Europe is a political concept, not a physical concept. You can drive from Beijing to London in your car. The only countries of Europe you cannot drive to from Beijing in your car are Iceland and Ireland. By definition, Europe and Asia are one continent, not two separate continents. And those who say they are are racists.


----------



## F-22Raptor

tower9 said:


> Keep telling yourself that. China is already the more powerful country. The events in the next two decades will only strengthen this statement not weaken it.



No it’s not. China definitely doesn’t have the military, allies/leadership, or soft power of the US. Economically, you don’t have the innovative capability of the United States, and Chinas GDP will see a steady decline in the decades ahead. Meanwhile, US power will continue to accelerate. The US has now successfully decapitated Russia for the next several decades.


----------



## Apollon

tower9 said:


> Undoubtedly, the West combined is still more powerful than China. But China is the most powerful single state, especially when you consider its capacity to achieve results. Either way, China is here to stay as a great power and will not be going anywhere, and that is my point. Just like the US emerged in the 19th century, China is here to stay.



And we are here to stay as well. You have to live with us. Its main reason why China doesnt dare to support Russia. It would be a war decleration against Europe and Russia is not worth it.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> Europe is a political concept, not a physical concept. You can drive from Beijing to London in your car. The only countries of Europe you cannot drive to from Beijing in your car are Iceland and Ireland. By definition, Europe and Asia are one continent, not two separate continents. And those who say they are are racists.



Russians cant drive to Europe. They cant even fly.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> China is nowhere near having the comprehensive national power the United States possesses. Not even close.



US is in The New World. The New World cannot compare with The Old World. China is in The Old World. China dominates The Old World. Who dominates The Old World, who dominates Earth.


----------



## thetutle

ProudPak said:


> Calling out a racist is not an insult. It asking you to be better. Hating a people simply because they are a different colour or race or religion is disgusting and belongs to ancient times not 2022. So readjust your meter and stop blaming me for calling you out as a ra ist European. You must know what the rest of Europe thinks of Greeks.... so being labelled as you are by the Europeans isn't nice and then you go and do the same to others. Shame


Can you please stop attacking greeks on a racial level. There are some very dark greeks, but they are mostly white. And most europeans consider them white. And who cares what they are, europeans are very diverse people, It really makes no difference.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

AK-12 in Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505550817457283072


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505580312461557763


----------



## Paul2

dBSPL said:


> So you are Russian also...



I am all for blocking accounts fresher than 1 year from posting in this topic, or at least ones which registered literally days ago, and already posted hundred posts of twitter spam.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505551726488731653


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## dBSPL

It was claimed as a protest that Russian cosmonauts going to the International Space Station wore yellow and blue overalls, which are also the colors of the Ukrainian flag. Cosmonauts made a statement about the controversial images and said that it is not about Ukraine.

It is very dire that cosmonauts even feel the need to make a statement on this matter. Unfortunately, war propaganda can put even scientists' careers at risk. Those who spread these rumors, of course, do not care who they hurt.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505579921581740035

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> Germany has a lot to answer for and many - correctly - hold German decisions as an ingredient into what is happening. Once this is over(one way or the other) - there will be a lot of discussions on German decision making and the consequences of those decisions..


It’s 50:50.
50 pct lies on Germany. refusing Ukraine to NATO, allowing north stream 1 and 2 bypassing Ukraine and East Europe.
50 pct on Ukraine itself, for giving up nuclear weapons.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

dBSPL said:


> It was claimed as a protest that Russian cosmonauts going to the International Space Station wore yellow and blue overalls, which are also the colors of the Ukrainian flag. Cosmonauts made a statement about the controversial images and said that it is not about Ukraine.
> 
> It is very dire that cosmonauts even feel the need to make a statement on this matter. Unfortunately, war propaganda can put even scientists' careers at risk. Those who spread these rumors, of course, do not care who they hurt.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505579921581740035



Ukraine don't own the colors yellow and blue anymore than China owns the colors yellow and red.


----------



## dBSPL

Russian MoD image from an exercise
Russia’s Amphibious Operation Dilemma​The war between Russia and Ukraine is four weeks old. Speculation about possible landing operations has always existed, as Russia has reinforced its Black Sea Fleet with additional landing assets and the amphibious task force has been present in the Black Sea since the beginning of the war.​Tayfun Ozberk  20 Mar 2022

The possibility of a Russian amphibious operation has been on the table since the escalation of tensions between Ukraine and Russia. There have been strong indications pointing to a future landing operation, such as the deployment of additional landing ships to the Black Sea, the conduct of naval exercises based on amphibious operations in conjunction with airborne operations, etc.

On the other hand, Naval News recently mentioned in an *analysis* that an amphibious operation would be a risky decision for Russia, which can dominate the Black Sea without Ukrainian resistance, due to the structure of Ukrainian coasts and the general nature of amphibious operations, which require many casualties.



> “Terrain constraints, amphibious lift limitations, difficulty sustaining air dominance, and logistical issues all point to the dangerous nature of any Russian amphibious operation in the Black Sea. As a result, Russia’s decision to start an amphibious operation is solely dependent on how much loss it can tolerate.”


Activities of Amphibious Task Groups​Russia’s amphibious units have been on the scene since the beginning of the war. One amphibious group has been operating in the Sea of Azov, while another, the larger group has been traversing off the coast of Odesa. The force composition is large enough to pose a threat to the coast, but there have been no visually verified amphibious operations to date.
Mariupol Operation​According to *USNI’s 25 February report*, Russia’s amphibious force in the Sea of Azov launched landing operations near Mariupol. Pentagon Press Secretary John Kirby told reporters that the Pentagon didn’t have “perfect visibility” on the assault and couldn’t provide specific numbers for how many troops Russians landed via landing ships.

The UK Ministry of Defence touched on this subject in an intelligence update feed via Twitter on February 26 and said that Russia has likely conducted an amphibious landing in southern Ukraine between Melitopol and Mariupol.

Though there are intelligence reports from the U.S. and the UK, neither Russian nor Ukrainian officials didn’t confirm a landing operation in the Mariupol region. Moreover, there is no visually verified landing activity while landing, just footage showing a few tanks proceeding on the road.





Russian landing ships approaching Berdyansk (Anonymous photo circulating on social media)
Three weeks after these claims, Russian forces captured Berdyansk, a port city west of Mariupol, but this invasion was not the result of an amphibious operation. Russian landing ships approached the port after the city had been captured by Russian forces from land.

Amphibious Threat to Odesa​



Click to Enlarge. Analysis of Sentinel 2 satellite imagery shows three groups of warships approaching the coast. We can say with confidence that these are Russian, and include landing ships.
The Russian amphibious task force, which poses a direct threat to Odesa, has been stationed off the west of the Crimean Peninsula since the beginning of the war. The group usually stays south of Donuzlav Bay (probably for protection from the winds and waves coming from the north) and moves west to be visible from the coast, traversing between east and west.

On March 15, there were certain signs of Russia’s preparations for a landing at Odessa. According to H. I. Sutton’s *OSINT analysis*, three groups of ships were on their way to Odessa, two of which consisted of fighting ships and one of several landing ships.



> “The group, forming in an easterly direction, appears to be led by a tug or minesweeper. This ship appears to be towing a minesweeper. Behind it are two Ropucha-class landing ships, another tug, and the following Ropucha.”
> 
> H I Sutton, OSINT Analyst


Meanwhile, Russian naval and air forces reportedly conducted missile strikes in and around the coastal city of Odessa. The Ukrainian Defense Ministry states that a total of 90 missiles were fired, several of which were intercepted by air defense systems or landed outside the city. This was counted as a pre-landing phase, called “preparation of the amphibious area of operations” for the landing forces, aimed at breaking Ukrainian resistance to Russian landing forces to reduce potential casualties during the landing.




Sattelite image prepared by H I Sutton
The movements of amphibious ships, the formation of supporting ships, the use of a minesweeper to guide task group from safe waters, a heavy bombardment of the coastline were clear indications of a landing operation. There were several photos showing Ukrainian preparations to defend Odesa, including tanks and artillery in urban areas ready to attack the coast, and numerous positions on the coast to prevent a landing operation.

Contrary to expectations, *Russia did not launch an amphibious operation to Odessa*, and the day after the bombardment, the amphibious task group resumed its previous actions.
Assault or Demonstration?​



Photo credit: H I Sutton (https://twitter.com/CovertShores)
It is difficult to comprehend Russia’s plans for amphibious operations. To understand this, we need to know what Putin has on his agenda, and the most significant point here is how much loss he can risk. However, due to the difficulty of such an operation and the fact that it is a high-loss operation, this option was difficult from the beginning.

On the other hand, the performance of Russian forces in terms of command and control and logistical support did not seem bright so far. At this C2 and logistics level, the outcome of an amphibious operation can be disastrous for Russian amphibious forces. In addition, Russian landing ships are at sea for four weeks, which means that the infantry battalions that are supposed to conduct landing operations are not in good shape. Being stuck in a small landing ship not only causes fatigue but also negatively affects the soldiers’ will to fight.

When these new difficulties are added to the previously indicated hardnesses for an amphibious operation, the likelihood of such an operation decreases. As the war wore on, however, both the cost of the war and the sanctions imposed on Russia by Western countries began to put Putin in a difficult position. When the invasion reaches this level, it seems difficult for Russia to return without getting what it wants. Therefore, will Russia conduct an amphibious operation to break the determination of Ukraine by capturing Odesa, even if it will cause many casualties? It’s hard to say “no”.

So why is Russia wearing out its amphibious forces by keeping them at sea when it is not conducting amphibious operations? In naval literature, this is called an “_Amphibious Demonstration_“.



> “An amphibious demonstration is *a show of force that stops short of an actual landing*. Demonstrations are conducted to deceive the enemy or, in situations short of hostilities, to signal presence and intent.”
> 
> Dictionary of Military and Associated Terms. US Department of Defense 2005.


Russia creates the perception that there is a threat in this region by constantly performing amphibious demonstrations off Odessa, thus keeping Odessa on constant alert, which causes it to keep soldiers in this region. This situation precludes troops waiting to defend the Odessa coastline from supporting forces fighting in other places.

The next weeks appear to resolve Russia’s dilemma in amphibious operations.









Russia's amphibious operation dilemma - Naval News


Speculation about landing operations has always existed, as Russia has reinforced its Black Sea Fleet with additional landing assets.




www.navalnews.com

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Piotr

MH.Yang said:


> @Piotr
> I have a question. Is Poland willing to accept Lviv as Polish territory?
> 
> Now Russia is not even willing to set up a no fly zone in Lviv. Obviously, Russia does not want Lviv.
> 
> I can understand why Russia doesn't want Lviv, but the Polish govt may not be willing to accept this territory.
> 
> Is Poland willing to accept Lviv? This is a large territory, and Lviv's residents are mainly poles and Lithuanians. But Lviv is poor, and Lviv has millions of Ukrainian refugees, and that means Poland borders Russia directly. Of course, I think the EU certainly wants Poland to accept Lviv, but I want to know how poles think about this issue.



In some circles in Poland there are speculations about regaining what is now western Ukraine.





Personaly I don't think this is going to happen. We will see.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505515293816274955


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

dBSPL said:


> Russian MoD image from an exercise
> Russia’s Amphibious Operation Dilemma​The war between Russia and Ukraine is four weeks old. Speculation about possible landing operations has always existed, as Russia has reinforced its Black Sea Fleet with additional landing assets and the amphibious task force has been present in the Black Sea since the beginning of the war.​Tayfun Ozberk  20 Mar 2022
> 
> The possibility of a Russian amphibious operation has been on the table since the escalation of tensions between Ukraine and Russia. There have been strong indications pointing to a future landing operation, such as the deployment of additional landing ships to the Black Sea, the conduct of naval exercises based on amphibious operations in conjunction with airborne operations, etc.
> 
> On the other hand, Naval News recently mentioned in an *analysis* that an amphibious operation would be a risky decision for Russia, which can dominate the Black Sea without Ukrainian resistance, due to the structure of Ukrainian coasts and the general nature of amphibious operations, which require many casualties.
> 
> 
> Activities of Amphibious Task Groups​Russia’s amphibious units have been on the scene since the beginning of the war. One amphibious group has been operating in the Sea of Azov, while another, the larger group has been traversing off the coast of Odesa. The force composition is large enough to pose a threat to the coast, but there have been no visually verified amphibious operations to date.
> Mariupol Operation​According to *USNI’s 25 February report*, Russia’s amphibious force in the Sea of Azov launched landing operations near Mariupol. Pentagon Press Secretary John Kirby told reporters that the Pentagon didn’t have “perfect visibility” on the assault and couldn’t provide specific numbers for how many troops Russians landed via landing ships.
> 
> The UK Ministry of Defence touched on this subject in an intelligence update feed via Twitter on February 26 and said that Russia has likely conducted an amphibious landing in southern Ukraine between Melitopol and Mariupol.
> 
> Though there are intelligence reports from the U.S. and the UK, neither Russian nor Ukrainian officials didn’t confirm a landing operation in the Mariupol region. Moreover, there is no visually verified landing activity while landing, just footage showing a few tanks proceeding on the road.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian landing ships approaching Berdyansk (Anonymous photo circulating on social media)
> Three weeks after these claims, Russian forces captured Berdyansk, a port city west of Mariupol, but this invasion was not the result of an amphibious operation. Russian landing ships approached the port after the city had been captured by Russian forces from land.
> 
> Amphibious Threat to Odesa​
> 
> 
> 
> Click to Enlarge. Analysis of Sentinel 2 satellite imagery shows three groups of warships approaching the coast. We can say with confidence that these are Russian, and include landing ships.
> The Russian amphibious task force, which poses a direct threat to Odesa, has been stationed off the west of the Crimean Peninsula since the beginning of the war. The group usually stays south of Donuzlav Bay (probably for protection from the winds and waves coming from the north) and moves west to be visible from the coast, traversing between east and west.
> 
> On March 15, there were certain signs of Russia’s preparations for a landing at Odessa. According to H. I. Sutton’s *OSINT analysis*, three groups of ships were on their way to Odessa, two of which consisted of fighting ships and one of several landing ships.
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, Russian naval and air forces reportedly conducted missile strikes in and around the coastal city of Odessa. The Ukrainian Defense Ministry states that a total of 90 missiles were fired, several of which were intercepted by air defense systems or landed outside the city. This was counted as a pre-landing phase, called “preparation of the amphibious area of operations” for the landing forces, aimed at breaking Ukrainian resistance to Russian landing forces to reduce potential casualties during the landing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sattelite image prepared by H I Sutton
> The movements of amphibious ships, the formation of supporting ships, the use of a minesweeper to guide task group from safe waters, a heavy bombardment of the coastline were clear indications of a landing operation. There were several photos showing Ukrainian preparations to defend Odesa, including tanks and artillery in urban areas ready to attack the coast, and numerous positions on the coast to prevent a landing operation.
> 
> Contrary to expectations, *Russia did not launch an amphibious operation to Odessa*, and the day after the bombardment, the amphibious task group resumed its previous actions.
> Assault or Demonstration?​
> 
> 
> 
> Photo credit: H I Sutton (https://twitter.com/CovertShores)
> It is difficult to comprehend Russia’s plans for amphibious operations. To understand this, we need to know what Putin has on his agenda, and the most significant point here is how much loss he can risk. However, due to the difficulty of such an operation and the fact that it is a high-loss operation, this option was difficult from the beginning.
> 
> On the other hand, the performance of Russian forces in terms of command and control and logistical support did not seem bright so far. At this C2 and logistics level, the outcome of an amphibious operation can be disastrous for Russian amphibious forces. In addition, Russian landing ships are at sea for four weeks, which means that the infantry battalions that are supposed to conduct landing operations are not in good shape. Being stuck in a small landing ship not only causes fatigue but also negatively affects the soldiers’ will to fight.
> 
> When these new difficulties are added to the previously indicated hardnesses for an amphibious operation, the likelihood of such an operation decreases. As the war wore on, however, both the cost of the war and the sanctions imposed on Russia by Western countries began to put Putin in a difficult position. When the invasion reaches this level, it seems difficult for Russia to return without getting what it wants. Therefore, will Russia conduct an amphibious operation to break the determination of Ukraine by capturing Odesa, even if it will cause many casualties? It’s hard to say “no”.
> 
> So why is Russia wearing out its amphibious forces by keeping them at sea when it is not conducting amphibious operations? In naval literature, this is called an “_Amphibious Demonstration_“.
> 
> 
> Russia creates the perception that there is a threat in this region by constantly performing amphibious demonstrations off Odessa, thus keeping Odessa on constant alert, which causes it to keep soldiers in this region. This situation precludes troops waiting to defend the Odessa coastline from supporting forces fighting in other places.
> 
> The next weeks appear to resolve Russia’s dilemma in amphibious operations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia's amphibious operation dilemma - Naval News
> 
> 
> Speculation about landing operations has always existed, as Russia has reinforced its Black Sea Fleet with additional landing assets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.navalnews.com



Admiral Gorshkov frigates can shell land targets with 130 mm gun and Kalibr missiles.


----------



## Apollon

Tai Hai Chen said:


> US is in The New World. The New World cannot compare with The Old World. China is in The Old World. China dominates The Old World. Who dominates The Old World, who dominates Earth.



China does in no way dominate Europe. Infact its influence is miniscule here. If with old world you mean east of Urals maybe.


----------



## dBSPL

48km engagement. Turkish sources were censoring the data while publishing such images. But Ukrainian sources unfortunately do not have the same attention.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> China does in no way dominate Europe. Infact its influence is miniscule here. If with old world you mean east of Urals maybe.



The Old World. 









Old World - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## NotSure

reflecthofgeismar said:


> No.
> ATM we are weak bc of political hippity hoppity decadent-"liberal" promoted values, values coming from the same mouth pieces who are doing their anti-Russian propaganda, so you are falling into their trap.
> If we would lose (conventionally) vs the Russians we would deserve it because we became fat, lazy and decadent!
> We are Germans who stapled Russians so high the ones down under started to stink when we finish the body tower.
> So you are defending the values which are the main reason why we have become weak.
> In the end, the Russians and other Europeans have a common history and Russians will always be there, then under different leadership but you must find a neutral ground where both sides win.
> Europe needs Russia vs the growing dragon.
> I dunno why you don't wanna understand this ordinary fact.


He is a spoiled, uneducated kid, haven't even finished school yet and worked a day for his living, but bragging loud about the money of his parents. Writing things like: *10 € gas* price is ok. Because he is rich!

Do you REALLY expect this lunatic do understand even basic things? And no, he does not give a shit about germany or europe, the people here, it is all about his lunacy. All about being the loudest, when it comes to political correctness.

People like him are the death sentence for europe and the west.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## mmr

dBSPL said:


> 48km engagement. Turkish sources were censoring the data while publishing such images. But Ukrainian sources unfortunately do not have the same attention.


good job turkey.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

Tai Hai Chen said:


> The Old World.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old World - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



China has no influence over Europe. Thats a simple fact.

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## Ali_Baba

dBSPL said:


> 48km engagement. Turkish sources were censoring the data while publishing such images. But Ukrainian sources unfortunately do not have the same attention.



48km is fantastic with such a small platform that is difficult to detect and even more difficult to shoot down with it being out of the engagement zone of most SAM systems that travel with Armour ...

I am certain PAF would love to know how how well, when and how the S400 can detect the TB2  ...

This explains the success of the TB2 in the recent war in Armenia against the S300's and shows how it can be successfully used against the S400's.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505584798231900164

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> China has no influence over Europe. Thats a simple fact.



China has huge influence in Europe. European countries are all small and vulnerable to Chinese influence. Hell, even Mercedes biggest owner is Chinese government.









Mercedes-Benz Group - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





BMP-3 in Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505528151614836742

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Apollon

NotSure said:


> He is a spoiled, uneducated kid, haven't even finished school yet and worked a day for his living, but bragging loud about the money of his parents. Writing things like: *10 € gas* price is ok. Because he is rich!
> 
> Do you REALLY expect this lunatic do understand even basic things? And no, he does not give a shit about germany or europe, the people here, it is all about his lunacy. All about being the loudest, when it comes to political correctness.
> 
> People like him are the death sentence for europe and the west.



You are totally wrong. Im not political correct. Im far right conservative and i see Putin as disgusting pancake face. Im against political correctness and i believe in the absolute superiority of Europe in evry aspect. 

Its people like you who somehow connect that laughable botox clown in the kremlin as conservative. Time to destroy that connection. Kaiser Wilhelm I and Bismarck is my form of conservatism not your pathetic kotau to a country where 80% have no functional toilet.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

mmr said:


> well we need china for cheap wall mart goods. thats all.
> 
> here ppl act like without china eu and north america will die in hunger lmao.



reported


----------



## mmr

Tai Hai Chen said:


> reported


lol ok. 

truth hurts.


----------



## Apollon

Tai Hai Chen said:


> China has huge influence in Europe. European countries are all small and vulnerable to Chinese influence. Hell, even Mercedes biggest owner is Chinese government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mercedes-Benz Group - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BMP-3 in Mariupol
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505528151614836742



China doesnt even influence Greece, which took chinese money and then voted pro sanctions on china. 

Same as mercedes benz, you own papers. Ask russia what value papers in western nations have. One day and its all taken away, frozen and confiscated. 

Russia also owned alot in Europe. Its all gone.

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## Vergennes

Meanwhile Russians don't even bother to recover the bodies of their soldiers and hand them back to their families. Shame.



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505586542810738690



@Apollon @zzzz @F-22Raptor @Amliunion @RescueRanger

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## Wood

Paul2 said:


> I am all for blocking accounts fresher than 1 year from posting in this topic, or at least ones which registered literally days ago, and already posted hundred posts of twitter spam.


This thread is completely hijacked. I know that there are companies in India that offer to influence social media opinion by flooding the space with bogus reviews etc. Companies in the west hire them for minimal expense. Seems like the Russians have started to utilize their services


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505598403362926597

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## FuturePAF

thetutle said:


> Dont expect Russian borders to stay the same in the Caspian. They will take the Kazakh casein coastline and claim it as theirs. Maybe even Azerbaijan, but im not certain of that one.


It’s possible, it’s do or die time for the Russkies, they are not holding back and it looks like no one is gonna stop them. 

Does Turkey have any troops in Azerbaijan? Even if they do, I don’t think there is anyone to secure the Eastern Bank of the the Caspian in Kazakhstan and or Turkmenistan.

Putin looks like he is gonna rebuild the Russian empire one way or another.

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> Meanwhile Russians don't even bother to recover the bodies of their soldiers and hand them back to their families. Shame.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505586542810738690
> 
> 
> 
> @Apollon @zzzz @F-22Raptor @Amliunion @RescueRanger




Putin doesn't give a damn about his soldiers. Those soldiers have died for nothing. And their deaths will cause much suffering for their family and friends for years to come.


----------



## Apollon

Vergennes said:


> Meanwhile Russians don't even bother to recover the bodies of their soldiers and hand them back to their families. Shame.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505586542810738690
> 
> 
> 
> @Apollon @zzzz @F-22Raptor @Amliunion @RescueRanger




I saw it on twitter but was not as bold as you to post it xD


----------



## NotSure

Apollon said:


> You are totally wrong. Im not political correct. Im far right conservative


You spoiled, uneducated nazi brat do not even know what that means.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505599788695404562

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russian bums who go to Ukraine to snatch land and women taken Mariupol center.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505598401257345043


Apollon said:


> China doesnt even influence Greece, which took chinese money and then voted pro sanctions on china.
> 
> Same as mercedes benz, you own papers. Ask russia what value papers in western nations have. One day and its all taken away, frozen and confiscated.
> 
> Russia also owned alot in Europe. Its all gone.



Try it and see what happens.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505583313238597632

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ukrainians captured another Msta-S self propelled howitzer from Russian bums who go to Ukraine to take land and women.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505600695973855234


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505601894810636290
More than 5,000 Starlinks active in Ukraine. These are helping Ukraine UAVs target Russian armor.

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505583313238597632



Alot of training of the Ukrainian Armed forces since the Crimean occupation has been done by the British Army.

You can see why Putin does not want Ukraine to have an army)(de-weaponise as he calls it) as a pre-condition to stopping the war.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505508287189499904
This convoy got obliterated

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Tsar Bomba would settle this in 1 hours just create a buffer zone in ukraine


----------



## Apollon

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505583313238597632



Boooooom. Love it. Its also quick and clean. Not much suffering.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505601598977884168

Ukraine and the West has destroyed Russia in the information war.

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## Tamerlane

thetutle said:


> Your view is totally legitimate. But it can not be in Pakistans interest to have a russia which dominates europe, threatens its muslim neighbours like Azerbaijan, Kazakstan, and all of central Asia. Russias ambition is to take European lands and muslim lands. This can not be in Pakistans interests.
> 
> Its tempting to enjoy the west getting some of its own medicine, I am sure, but the cost of that medicine to muslims in the region and central Asia is very very high.



From a Muslim perspective Russia is like Santa Claus compared to dealing with the West. Muslims dealing with the West is like Palestinians dealing with Israel.

The storm of Islamophobia in the world was created by the Anglo-Zionists, and it didn't just start with 9/11. I've been seeing for over 40 years. I remember living in UK during the time of the Iranian revolution and the Salman Rushdie controversy. British newspapers used to be full of extreme hate for all Muslims. I remember saying to people that it seems like there will be a holocaust of Muslims in Europe. Sure enough, it happened with the genocide of Bosnian Muslims. I remember seeing Bosnian refugees outside the mosque. It was very traumatic.

The Western hate offensive against Islam has encouraged everyone with a conflict with Muslims everywhere in the world. They can always expect Western help, like Israel, India, Indonesia, Burma etc. 

The Anglo-Zionists are not finished with Muslims yet. I would say that they're at the 50% mark. There's a whole series of Muslim countries that are on the destruction list, like Iran, Pakistan etc, and then they're going to bring down their poodles like the oil sheikhdoms. They won't stop until they've reduced the whole Middle East to a pile of rubble and Israel become the undisputed master.

Compared to that record, Russia has been mild in its attitude towards Muslims. They've been brutal in Chechnya and Syria, but in both places they were fighting dollar-jihadis supported by the West. Other than that they've been quite benign. I doubt that they have any intention of invading either any other European or Muslim country. That's just a mixture of propaganda and paranoia.

This war may slow down the Anglo-Zionist crusade against Islam and may provide a window of opportunity for Muslim countries to sort themselves out without Anglo-Zionist threats of destruction.

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## OldTwilight

Dustom999 said:


> Russian had to choose worst time of the year to invade, weather moving away from snow.
> Melting ground becomes soggy, why did they choose this time, could have waited for 2 months.
> Ukrain was discussing security pact with usa and overnite ( literally in 24 hours) US air defence and tactical missiles would have moved to Ukraine.
> Behind the curtain USA was just about to deploy and cause major headache for Russia. So Russia just took preemptive action.



or maybe they plan 6 month long war which will end in end of summer and then both EU and Ukrainian have to accept them as victor of war or froze from cold ( EU ) or starve to death ( Ukrainian ) in next winter ...


----------



## dBSPL

Ali_Baba said:


> 48km is fantastic with such a small platform that is difficult to detect and even more difficult to shoot down with it being out of the engagement zone of most SAM systems that travel with Armour ...
> 
> I am certain PAF would love to know how how well, when and how the S400 can detect the TB2  ...
> 
> This explains the success of the TB2 in the recent war in Armenia against the S300's and shows how it can be successfully used against the S400's.


With the Kuzgun missiles and the TB-3, there will be a quantum leap, so to speak, in tactical drone systems. Don't consider the video datas you watch as a limit, just a combat-prove reference.

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## Type59

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505583313238597632


Sure Iraqi rebels were doing that to US convoys.


----------



## jamal18

Tamerlane said:


> From a Muslim perspective Russia is like Santa Claus compared to dealing with the West. Muslims dealing with the West is like Palestinians dealing with Israel.
> 
> The storm of Islamophobia in the world was created by the Anglo-Zionists, and it didn't just start with 9/11. I've been seeing for over 40 years. I remember living in UK during the time of the Iranian revolution and the Salman Rushdie controversy. British newspapers used to be full of extreme hate for all Muslims. I remember saying to people that it seems like there will be a holocaust of Muslims in Europe. Sure enough, it happened with the genocide of Bosnian Muslims. I remember seeing Bosnian refugees outside the mosque. It was very traumatic.
> 
> The Western hate offensive against Islam has encouraged everyone with a conflict with Muslims everywhere in the world. They can always expect Western help, like Israel, India, Indonesia, Burma etc.
> 
> The Anglo-Zionists are not finished with Muslims yet. I would say that they're at the 50% mark. There's a whole series of Muslim countries that are on the destruction list, like Iran, Pakistan etc, and then they're going to bring down their poodles like the oil sheikhdoms. They won't stop until they've reduced the whole Middle East to a pile of rubble and Israel become the undisputed master.
> 
> Compared to that record, Russia has been mild in its attitude towards Muslims. They've been brutal in Chechnya and Syria, but in both places they were fighting dollar-jihadis supported by the West. Other than that they've been quite benign. I doubt that they have any intention of invading either any other European or Muslim country. That's just a mixture of propaganda and paranoia.
> 
> This war may slow down the Anglo-Zionist crusade against Islam and may provide a window of opportunity for Muslim countries to sort themselves out without Anglo-Zionist threats of destruction.


Apart from Chechnya, the Russians are not in conflict with muslims. The West, owned by the Zionists, have destroyed muslim countries. Nato has pushed to far, and Russia's pateince has ended.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505607649047584770

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## Inception-06

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505607649047584770



Great, the Russians will learn it through the hard way to better retreat and ask for peace !


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505575233046167557
Units of Delta Force and Seal Team 6 are on the ground in Ukraine

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## Apollon

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505606019464019979


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505588134985310209


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505606967150141446
LMAO are we in 1943? Helmets used by russian soldiers

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## ProudPak

thetutle said:


> Can you please stop attacking greeks on a racial level. There are some very dark greeks, but they are mostly white. And most europeans consider them white. And who cares what they are, europeans are very diverse people, It really makes no difference.


Did u read what he wrote or are you just jumping on the bandwagon. I suggest yiu scroll up and read before commenting. I don't have an issue with Greeks....just calling out racism


----------



## Apollon

This is what i mean...even in cold war era did ussr evrything to deliver gas to germany. Against US pressure did germany build multiple pipelines to russia. Putin threw all this away...Germany signed a deal with qatar today to replace russian gas.









Habecks „großartiger“ Deal ist ein moralisch fragwürdiges Geschäft


Die SPD liefert Waffen in die Ukraine. Die Grünen kaufen Gas in Katar. Die FDP macht Schulden. Putins Krieg rafft gerade so gut wie alle Gewissheiten der deutschen Politik hinweg. Es herrscht im Grunde Kriegswirtschaft, oder vorsichtiger: der erste Teil davon.




www.focus.de

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505612123342262277

Almost certainly confirming the US is passing targeting data to the Ukrainians.

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## Dustom999

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505612123342262277
> 
> Almost certainly confirming the US is passing targeting data to the Ukrainians.


And they all are going to die unless they hurry back to poland.


----------



## khansaheeb

I wonder what the Palestinians think of his comment:-



https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60802572



Summary​
Ukraine's president addresses Israel's parliament by video link, as part of efforts to rally global support.
"We want to live. Our neighbours want to see us dead," he tells Israeli MPs
An art school in Mariupol, where about 400 people were sheltering, was attacked, the city council says
Officials say the building has been destroyed and people could be trapped under the rubble
Ukraine's president alleges that Russia committed war crimes in the city, where heavy fighting has now reached the centre
It comes as officials there allege thousands of residents have been forcibly taken to Russian cities. The BBC is yet to verify the claim

Live Reporting
Related Stories
Live Reporting​Edited by Chris Giles
Get involved
Get involved​
Send an email to haveyoursay@bbc.co.uk

Posted at 11:1111:11
What's the latest?​





ReutersCopyright: Reuters
People watching President Zelensky's address outside the Israeli parliamentImage caption: People watching President Zelensky's address outside the Israeli parliament
Thanks for joining us for our continuing live coverage of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Here are the latest developments:
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has addressed the Israeli parliament (Knesset) and urged lawmakers to abandon Israel's neutrality following Russia's invasion
He quoted the late Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir, in his video message, with the words "we intend to live, but our neighbours want to see us dead"
Zelensky says Israel has the best air defence in the world and says "you can definitely help our people, save the lives of Ukrainians"

Authorities in Mariupol in southern Ukraine say Russia has destroyed a school with 400 women, children and elderly people sheltering inside. There are no details about casualties. The BBC has not been able to verify the claim
The United Nations estimates that the conflict has driven 10 million Ukrainians from their homes. The UN said they had either been displaced within the country, or fled abroad
Turkey's foreign minister, who is mediating peace talks between Ukraine and Russia, has said the two sides are close to an agreement


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505612123342262277
> 
> Almost certainly confirming the US is passing targeting data to the Ukrainians.


I think the US is also passing real time intelligence about missile strikes to Ukraine. This could be the reason for Russia using hypersonic strikes for high value targets


----------



## tower9

Apollon said:


> And we are here to stay as well. You have to live with us. Its main reason why China doesnt dare to support Russia. It would be a war decleration against Europe and Russia is not worth it.
> 
> 
> 
> Russians cant drive to Europe. They cant even fly.



China is perfectly fine with co-existing with Europe and the US, it is the West that can't tolerate treating China as an equal and a peer. That is why there is so much vitriolic hatred against China coming from Western media and societies.

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## jamal18

jamal18 said:


> Gonzalo lira.
> 
> This guy is broadcasting from karkov, says Russians are avoiding civilian casualteis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About 20 minutes in.


This guy is on live at 19.00 hrs gmt. 23 minutes in.

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## CrazyZ

dBSPL said:


> With the Kuzgun missiles and the TB-3, there will be a quantum leap, so to speak, in tactical drone systems. Don't consider the video datas you watch as a limit, just a combat-prove reference.


Based on combat performance, large amounts of TB-2 (or improved variants) can swing the outcome in modern warfare. Once the Pakistan T-129 acquisition was blocked by USA.....I always felt the allocated funds should be redirected to TB2 acquisition. Ukraine war only confirms my sentiment.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505617387218944007

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## Wood

CrazyZ said:


> Based on combat performance, large amounts of TB-2 (or improved variants) can swing the outcome in modern warfare. Once the Pakistan T-129 acquisition was blocked by USA.....I always felt the allocated funds should be redirected to TB2 acquisition. Ukraine war only confirms my sentiment.


Very curious about why Russians have not been able to shoot down these slow moving drones. Surely, they would have the tech to block them. But every other day we see successful strikes with only negligible news about the drones being shot down.

Any theories are welcome!

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## Vergennes

A rare T80UK captured by Ukrainian troops


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505602032824160264

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## Ich

Apollon said:


> This is what i mean...even in cold war era did ussr evrything to deliver gas to germany. Against US pressure did germany build multiple pipelines to russia. Putin threw all this away...Germany signed a deal with qatar today to replace russian gas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Habecks „großartiger“ Deal ist ein moralisch fragwürdiges Geschäft
> 
> 
> Die SPD liefert Waffen in die Ukraine. Die Grünen kaufen Gas in Katar. Die FDP macht Schulden. Putins Krieg rafft gerade so gut wie alle Gewissheiten der deutschen Politik hinweg. Es herrscht im Grunde Kriegswirtschaft, oder vorsichtiger: der erste Teil davon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.focus.de



How many gastankers are needed *PER DAY* to replace russian gas? 50? 100? More?

Are there enough free/unused gastankers exist in the world to satisfy the needed load/transport into the EU/Germany for replacing russian gas?

And how many LNG-terminals does Germany has to unload gastanker? Zero? 2? 3?

And how many gastanker can these *EXISTING* LNG-terminals in Germany unload *PER DAY? *Zero? 5? 8? 

And how long would it need to build the needed LNG-terminal infrastructure in Germany? 3 years? 5 years? More?

Does it help that other EU countries build some LNG terminals already? No (cause they need the capacity themselfs)?

Also Algeria is pissed cause of Spain/EU and West-Sahara and think about stopping gas delivery to the EU.









Erdgas aus Algerien auf der Kippe


Die spanische Regierung will die Souveränität Marokkos über die Westsahara anerkennen, das erzürnt Algier. Sánchez' Entscheidung kommt zur Unzeit. Das algerische Gas sollte die EU aus der Abhängigkeit von Russland befreien




www.heise.de





As you can see: Propaganda does not make you well-fed.

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## tower9

jamal18 said:


> Apart from Chechnya, the Russians are not in conflict with muslims. The West, owned by the Zionists, have destroyed muslim countries. Nato has pushed to far, and Russia's pateince has ended.


You can't really compare Russia's Chechnya war or China's Xinjiang policies to the history of Western imperialism in the Muslim world. For Russia and China, those are primarily secessionist conflicts and did not represent a broad war against Islam or the Muslim world. They are also relatively small, domestic conflicts. 

The West has been rampaging through the Muslim world for a century using its overwhelmingly powerful global media to dehumanize Muslims, justify the occupation of Palestine, legitimize the murder of Muslims and the subordination of Muslim countries. There really is no comparison.

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## CrazyZ

Wood said:


> Very curious about why Russians have not been able to shoot down these slow moving drones. Surely, they would have the tech to block them. But every other day we see successful strikes with only negligible news about the drones being shot down.
> 
> Any theories are welcome!


In conflict after conflict TB2 has proven its is hard to detect by modern AD systems including the S400. Indians should plan accordingly.

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## Apollon

Ich said:


> How many gastankers are needed *PER DAY* to replace russian gas? 50? 100? More?
> 
> Are there enough free/unused gastankers exist in the world to satisfy the needed load/transport into the EU/Germany for replacing russian gas?
> 
> And how many LNG-terminals does Germany has to unload gastanker? Zero? 2? 3?
> 
> And how many gastanker can these *EXISTING* LNG-terminals in Germany unload *PER DAY? *Zero? 5? 8?
> 
> And how long would it need to build the needed LNG-terminal infrastructure in Germany? 3 years? 5 years? More?
> 
> Does it help that other EU countries build some LNG terminals already? No (cause they need the capacity themselfs)?
> 
> Also Algeria is pissed cause of Spain/EU and West-Sahara and think about stopping gas delivery to the EU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Erdgas aus Algerien auf der Kippe
> 
> 
> Die spanische Regierung will die Souveränität Marokkos über die Westsahara anerkennen, das erzürnt Algier. Sánchez' Entscheidung kommt zur Unzeit. Das algerische Gas sollte die EU aus der Abhängigkeit von Russland befreien
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.heise.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see: Propaganda does not make you well-fed.



Well my belly is well fed, just had a nice pizza.

You worry too much. We can achieve anything if we want.



tower9 said:


> You can't really compare Russia's Chechnya war or China's Xinjiang policies to the history of Western imperialism in the Muslim world. For Russia and China, those are primarily secessionist conflicts and did not represent a broad war against Islam or the Muslim world. They are also relatively small, domestic conflicts.
> 
> The West has been rampaging through the Muslim world for a century using its overwhelmingly powerful global media to dehumanize Muslims, justify the occupation of Palestine, legitimize the murder of Muslims and the subordination of Muslim countries. There really is no comparison.



In all honesty you do exactly same, dehumanize us westerners. I was called white boy here. Asked if white boys should be vaporized and so on. Racism goes both ways.

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## FairAndUnbiased

CrazyZ said:


> In conflict after conflict TB2 has proven its is hard to detect by modern AD systems including the S400. Indians should plan accordingly.



The key to beating the TB-2 is striking the command center when you have air superiority.

That only works if they are being commanded from the ground. I have a huge hunch that they're not even being commanded from Ukraine.

Otherwise the maximum range of TB-2s is 150 km line of sight.

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## Wood

CrazyZ said:


> In conflict after conflict TB2 has proven its is hard to detect by modern AD systems including the S400. Indians should plan accordingly.


Yes, I'm sure India is taking note. But I'm not sure why this drone has been so successful


----------



## F-22Raptor

Dustom999 said:


> And they all are going to die unless they hurry back to poland.




These are US special forces, not a Call of Duty volunteer. Their not going anywhere.

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## Apollon

Dustom999 said:


> And they all are going to die unless they hurry back to poland.



We talking about Russia, Russia still has not captured a single mayor city in Ukraine. They dont have to go Poland, Odessa or Kyev are save enough


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Wood said:


> Yes, I'm sure India is taking note. But I'm not sure why this done has been so successful



Even Iran could shoot down US drones.

My hunch is that these drones are being managed by NATO, not Ukraine, and are being serviced at makeshift road airfields with hand lifted munitions and civilian fuel (possible since they use light ATGM and gasoline as fuel).

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## Vergennes



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## khansaheeb

United Nations says 6.5 million people have been displaced inside Ukraine


The estimates from the International Organization for Migration suggests Ukraine is fast on course in just three weeks toward the levels of displacement from Syria’s devastating war, which has driven about 13 million people from their homes both in the country and abroad.




www.pbs.org





Full Episode




Saturday, Mar 19

The Latest
Politics






By —
Jamey Keaten, Associated Press
Leave your feedback
Share
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United Nations says 6.5 million people have been displaced inside Ukraine​World Mar 18, 2022 2:39 PM EDT
GENEVA (AP) — The U.N. migration agency said Friday that nearly 6.5 million people have been displaced inside Ukraine, on top of the 3.2 million who have already fled the country.
That means that around a quarter of Ukraine’s 44 million people have been forced from their homes.
The estimates from the International Organization for Migration suggests Ukraine is fast on course in just three weeks toward the levels of displacement from Syria’s devastating war, which has driven about 13 million people from their homes both in the country and abroad.
The findings come in a paper issued Friday by the U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.
The projections also found that “over 12 million people are estimated to be stranded in affected areas or unable to leave due to heightened security risks, destruction of bridges and roads, as well as lack of resources or information on where to find safety and accommodation.”
*WATCH:* How military assistance from NATO and the U.S. will impact Ukraine’s battle against Russia
The paper cited the IOM figures as “a good representation of the scale of internal displacement in Ukraine — calculated to stand at 6.48 million internally displaced persons in Ukraine as of March 16.”
UNHCR, the U.N. refugee agency, has said fighting that has followed Russia’s invasion of Ukraine on Feb. 24 has sparked Europe’s gravest refugee crisis since World War II.
“By these estimates, roughly half the country is either internally displaced, stranded in affected areas or unable to leave, or has already fled to neighboring countries,” he said, alluding to Ukraine’s population of about 44 million before the war began.
The paper said that 9.56 million people have been displaced by the war so far, as of Wednesday, and another 2.2 million people were considering leaving. IOM estimates that more than 3 million people had fled abroad as of Wednesday.
UNHCR, in its latest figures released Friday, said more than 3.2 million people have fled Ukraine.
Left: Workers sort out goods outside a mall, also known as Russia Market, for Russian and Ukrainian traders in Beijing, Sunday, Feb. 27, 2022. China is the only friend that might help Russia blunt the impact of economic sanctions over its invasion of Ukraine, but President Xi Jinping's government is giving no sign it might be willing to risk its own access to U.S. and European markets by doing too much. (AP Photo/Andy Wong)
Related​
Biden talks with China’s Xi, aims to press him on involvement with Putin
By Aamer Madhani, Associated Press
Putin praises troops at Moscow rally as Russia continues attack in Ukraine
By Cara Anna, Associated Press
Putin likens opponents to ‘gnats,’ signaling new repression
By Associated Press
​

​


----------



## Wood

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Even Iran could shoot down US drones.
> 
> My hunch is that these drones are being managed by NATO, not Ukraine, and are being serviced at makeshift road airfields with hand lifted munitions and civilian fuel (possible since they use light ATGM and gasoline as fuel).


But we have seen videos of the drone operators showing their display screens shooting drones. Those people were not speaking in English and sounded like Ukrainians in manner. So not all of them are run by NATO at the very least.

Even so, I wonder why Russians are unable to jam them to protect their convoys. Now it seems like every armour unit should have some anti drone tech.


----------



## zartosht

Major portions of mariupol capture by Russian forces....






The glorious Ukie defense has it all according to plan though. Everyone knows the best way to defend a city is to let the enemy completely encircle you, And after you have no hope of salvation, Just slowly and methodically get slaughtered block by block using heavy artelliry.. Sun tzu himself would be proud... 

The ukies have it all under control. The Russian advance has stalled, The Russians have lost half their army, They are starving because they have no food, There vehicles have no fuel, and are refusing orders to fight 

-western media/american military/intel officials

Just make sure you dont look at any Russian "fake news" and let your government censors know if they missed censoring any Russian media, and shut up and listen to CNN

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## FairAndUnbiased

khansaheeb said:


> United Nations says 6.5 million people have been displaced inside Ukraine
> 
> 
> The estimates from the International Organization for Migration suggests Ukraine is fast on course in just three weeks toward the levels of displacement from Syria’s devastating war, which has driven about 13 million people from their homes both in the country and abroad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pbs.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Full Episode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saturday, Mar 19
> 
> The Latest
> Politics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By —
> Jamey Keaten, Associated Press
> Leave your feedback
> Share
> Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
> United Nations says 6.5 million people have been displaced inside Ukraine​World Mar 18, 2022 2:39 PM EDT
> GENEVA (AP) — The U.N. migration agency said Friday that nearly 6.5 million people have been displaced inside Ukraine, on top of the 3.2 million who have already fled the country.
> That means that around a quarter of Ukraine’s 44 million people have been forced from their homes.
> The estimates from the International Organization for Migration suggests Ukraine is fast on course in just three weeks toward the levels of displacement from Syria’s devastating war, which has driven about 13 million people from their homes both in the country and abroad.
> The findings come in a paper issued Friday by the U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.
> The projections also found that “over 12 million people are estimated to be stranded in affected areas or unable to leave due to heightened security risks, destruction of bridges and roads, as well as lack of resources or information on where to find safety and accommodation.”
> *WATCH:* How military assistance from NATO and the U.S. will impact Ukraine’s battle against Russia
> The paper cited the IOM figures as “a good representation of the scale of internal displacement in Ukraine — calculated to stand at 6.48 million internally displaced persons in Ukraine as of March 16.”
> UNHCR, the U.N. refugee agency, has said fighting that has followed Russia’s invasion of Ukraine on Feb. 24 has sparked Europe’s gravest refugee crisis since World War II.
> “By these estimates, roughly half the country is either internally displaced, stranded in affected areas or unable to leave, or has already fled to neighboring countries,” he said, alluding to Ukraine’s population of about 44 million before the war began.
> The paper said that 9.56 million people have been displaced by the war so far, as of Wednesday, and another 2.2 million people were considering leaving. IOM estimates that more than 3 million people had fled abroad as of Wednesday.
> UNHCR, in its latest figures released Friday, said more than 3.2 million people have fled Ukraine.
> Left: Workers sort out goods outside a mall, also known as Russia Market, for Russian and Ukrainian traders in Beijing, Sunday, Feb. 27, 2022. China is the only friend that might help Russia blunt the impact of economic sanctions over its invasion of Ukraine, but President Xi Jinping's government is giving no sign it might be willing to risk its own access to U.S. and European markets by doing too much. (AP Photo/Andy Wong)
> Related​
> Biden talks with China’s Xi, aims to press him on involvement with Putin
> By Aamer Madhani, Associated Press
> Putin praises troops at Moscow rally as Russia continues attack in Ukraine
> By Cara Anna, Associated Press
> Putin likens opponents to ‘gnats,’ signaling new repression
> By Associated Press
> ​



That picture is from a truck unloading cargo in China. Note the Chinese characters in the background, dark hair of everyone in the photo, and lack of damage to infrastructure.

Wtf is this?



Wood said:


> But we have seen videos of the drone operators showing their display screens shooting drones. Those people were not speaking in English and sounded like Ukrainians in manner. So not all of them are run by NATO at the very least.
> 
> Even so, I wonder why Russians are unable to jam them to protect their convoys. Now it seems like every armour unit should have some anti drone tech.



They could be on board E-8s in Poland or they could be using NATO planes as signal relays. 

There needs to be plausible deniability for this to work, if they filmed drone operators speaking English in NATO uniforms then it'll be a direct involvement.


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## Ich

Apollon said:


> Well my belly is well fed, just had a nice pizza.
> 
> You worry too much. We can achieve anything if we want.



We need a "facepalm" smiley additional to the offered smilies at the like button.

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## Dustom999

F-22Raptor said:


> These are US special forces, not a Call of Duty volunteer. Their not going anywhere.


Artillery doesn't give two hoots about who is spl and who isn't! If they stay, they are toast!


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## dbc

FairAndUnbiased said:


> That picture is from a truck unloading cargo in China. Note the Chinese characters in the background, dark hair of everyone in the photo, and lack of damage to infrastructure.
> 
> Wtf is this?



from pbs.org

Left: Workers sort out goods outside a mall, also known as Russia Market, for Russian and Ukrainian traders in Beijing, Sunday, Feb. 27, 2022. China is the only friend that might help Russia blunt the impact of economic sanctions over its invasion of Ukraine, but President Xi Jinping's government is giving no sign it might be willing to risk its own access to U.S. and European markets by doing too much. (AP Photo/Andy Wong)


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## Apollon

Ich said:


> We need a "facepalm" smiley additional to the offered smilies at the like button.



You are just weak. We are at war in caee yoh had not noticed. When Churchill declared war on Hitler. He did not bother what implications this might have on thismor that. Freedom costs money. Unfortunately both Merkel and Schröder were Putins muppets and i would check Merkels accounts, im sure she got money from Russia. Germany had a failed energy politics, its completly retarded to get 40% from a crazy dictator like Putin. Now is payback time.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russian bums who go to Ukraine to snatch land and women shoot artillery


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505620655622004737


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## CrazyZ

Wood said:


> Yes, I'm sure India is taking note. But I'm not sure why this drone has been so successful


You can't shoot down what you can't see. TB2 is the first successful non-American stealth AC.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505633489999257604

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## UKBengali

Apollon said:


> You are just weak. We are at war in caee yoh had not noticed. When Churchill declared war on Hitler. He did not bother what implications this might have on thismor that. Freedom costs money. Unfortunately both Merkel and Schröder were Putins muppets and i would check Merkels accounts, im sure she got money from Russia. Germany had a failed energy politics, its completly retarded to get 40% from a crazy dictator like Putin. Now is payback time.





The plan is to phase out Russian energy imports by 2027.

By then Russia should have found alternative consumers.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505241388463665157


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## PaklovesTurkiye

@Meengla @Tamerlane @tower9 

I agree with you guys.

If I say in points what I have been thinking about all of this:-

*US *must have gained a lot of technical data regarding Russians' military systems. And yes, Americans fanned the smoke/fire in that region...as if they really wanted this war to happen.

*Russia* has been badly humiliated by EU and US....and probably got bit humbled in a process....She may take revenge laterwords, won't forget this. A new shiny bad blood has been created among powers.

*China* must be thinking that same playbook can be applied against her as well in near future so better get prepared as fast as she can.

*Ukraine *apparently got sacrificed in all of this - trampled. Lives and people fled to other countries.

::::: It is important to note that China and Russia act as bulwark against NATO. If these two get defeated then there is no stopping of carnage, that will be done by NATO in developing world here and there.......Whole balance will get screwed. 

For sake of world's peace and dignity, China/Russia combo must take active steps and increase their soft power in regional/developing countries....Fight US by her playbook...Increase cultural/educational links among nations.

By sanctioning Russia, Americans have also tried to halt China's advance towards Russia in forging an alliance - which is absolutely necessary to keep NATO/US on their ropes.

There's got to be some road-map pushed forward by mid tier countries like Pakistan/Gulf/Iran/Turkiye on how to forge closer links - politically and militarily...There's got to be some kinda alliance, heck I say....*SCO (Shanghai Cooperation Organisation) *should be made powerful and active in certain domains....it is high time now.

For how long, China/Russia/Other world will keep on _reacting to_ US/NATO shenanigans?...Why not be proactive and do something to safe our skin rather than just waiting in queue only to get eliminated/demonized one by one? This weakness and pathetic lazy attitude is what emboldens US/NATO.

Sitting on assess still? This is pure foolishness and death sentence. 

*Create your own reality on ground or else face consequences - Are these countries listening me? 

Start Preparing...And FORGE COVERT ALLIANCE with each other at least. *

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## tower9

Apollon said:


> Well my belly is well fed, just had a nice pizza.
> 
> You worry too much. We can achieve anything if we want.
> 
> 
> 
> In all honesty you do exactly same, dehumanize us westerners. I was called white boy here. Asked if white boys should be vaporized and so on. Racism goes both ways.



I don't know which member you are talking about but that's purely your subjective view and considering how much vitriol you regularly issue, I am not surprised you would get those types of comments. 

What I am talking about is on a society wide scale. In China, there is a healthy respect for European culture, the various attributes of different European societies, European classical music, etc. In the West, it's mostly just fake news and legalized hate speech against China. That is why Westerners remain vastly ignorant about modern China.

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## Tamerlane

tower9 said:


> You can't really compare Russia's Chechnya war or China's Xinjiang policies to the history of Western imperialism in the Muslim world. For Russia and China, those are primarily secessionist conflicts and did not represent a broad war against Islam or the Muslim world. They are also relatively small, domestic conflicts.
> 
> The West has been rampaging through the Muslim world for a century using its overwhelmingly powerful global media to dehumanize Muslims, justify the occupation of Palestine, legitimize the murder of Muslims and the subordination of Muslim countries. There really is no comparison.



I totally agree with you. There needs to be a China-Russia-Muslim alliance to roll back the Anglo-Zionist war and color revolution machine.

People seem to forget. Only in the last few years they've tried to do regime change in Turkey, a month or two ago in Kazakhstan, and as I write this there's a regime change operation unfolding in Pakistan. They haven't stopped. They're still on the roll. If Russia slows them down it will be for the benefit of mankind.

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## dBSPL

Russian Ministry of Defense:

"We are giving Ukraine until the first hours of March 21 to give its response to our request for the surrender of Mariupol."

- RIA Novosti -

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## Paul2

Wood said:


> Very curious about why Russians have not been able to shoot down these slow moving drones. Surely, they would have the tech to block them. But every other day we see successful strikes with only negligible news about the drones being shot down.
> 
> Any theories are welcome!



Drones are too small, slow, and low to be detected, tracked, and attacked by missiles.

Even if they can detect the fact of drone flying nearby, it's not a given the targeting radar can lock on it.

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## jamal18

Tamerlane said:


> I totally agree with you. There needs to be a China-Russia-Muslim alliance to roll back the Anglo-Zionist war and color revolution machine.
> 
> People seem to forget. Only in the last few years they've tried to do regime change in Turkey, a month or two ago in Kazakhstan, and as I write this there's a regime change operation unfolding in Pakistan. They haven't stopped. They're still on the roll. If Russia slows them down it will be for the benefit of mankind.


Often, but not always, the 'National endowment for democracy', is involved. This is an organisation designed by the CIA for regime change. They carry out the 'colour' revolutions.

They carried out the 2014 coup in the Ukraine, and in Georgia. They were involved in the Hong Kong protests. They failed in Belarus and recently in Kazhakstan. It is a long process involving buying the local press and governmant bodies.

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## Apollon

Ha ha ha ha from their own propaganda website Ria Novosti

France found another 22 billion assets of the russian central bank



https://ria.ru/20220320/frantsiya-1779141720.html



With the 380 billion we already took from Russia we are now at 402 billion €. 

To give an imprrssion, thats worth 48 years pension payments for all russian pensioners.

Oh those russians. Putin is such a genius. He wants drown Europe with russian cash. 🤣😂


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## Viet

The relationship between the west and Russia is broken beyond repair. The winner is China.
Putin can begin to learn chinese. He has only China as partner, while chinese have the choice to pick whom they please. Putin hates the west so much he is willing to make Russia to a chinese vassal.









China freut sich auf die neue Weltordnung


Mit dem Ukraine-Krieg richtet sich Russland nicht nur gegen sein Nachbarland,...




www.t-online.de









Zunehmend ungleiche Partner: China kann sich seine Handelspartner aussuchen, Russland hat sich weltpolitisch mehr und mehr selbst isoliert. (Quelle: KremlinxPool/imago images)

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## Apollon

jamal18 said:


> Often, but not always, the 'National endowment for democracy', is involved. This is an organisation designed by the CIA for regime change. They carry out the 'colour' revolutions.
> 
> They carried out the 2014 coup in the Ukraine, and in Georgia. They were involved in the Hong Kong protests. They failed in Belarus and recently in Kazhakstan. It is a long process involving buying the local press and governmant bodies.



You forget to mention that all those nations are shitholes that offer their people nothing. That lays the foundation of revolution.

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## F-22Raptor

dBSPL said:


> Russian Ministry of Defense:
> 
> "We are giving Ukraine until the first hours of March 21 to give its response to our request for the surrender of Mariupol."
> 
> - RIA Novosti -





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505637493084930050

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## tower9

Tamerlane said:


> I totally agree with you. There needs to be a China-Russia-Muslim alliance to roll back the Anglo-Zionist war and color revolution machine.
> 
> People seem to forget. Only in the last few years they've tried to do regime change in Turkey, a month or two ago in Kazakhstan, and as I write this there's a regime change operation unfolding in Pakistan. They haven't stopped. They're still on the roll. If Russia slows them down it will be for the benefit of mankind.


The Anglo Zionists are the primary instigator of conflict, hatred and bloodshed in the world. There is no doubt about that. Their powerful media is geared just for that, engendering anger, creating hostilities and information manipulation.

The reason is simple. In population terms, the Anglo world is relatively small, so they need the rest of the world poor, divided and war torn to continue ruling over the world. The Zionists are an even smaller group and they have historically succeeded by finding themselves always in the corridors of power, manipulating information and whispering commands into the ears of the kings they control.

If everyone was stable and prospering, they would quickly see their power disappearing.

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## Ich

Paul2 said:


> Drones are to small, slow, and low to be shot down by missile based air defence.



Yes, that is why everyone try to develop laser weapons to overcome this scenario.

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## khansaheeb

FairAndUnbiased said:


> That picture is from a truck unloading cargo in China. Note the Chinese characters in the background, dark hair of everyone in the photo, and lack of damage to infrastructure.
> 
> Wtf is this?


It's a pic showing U.N. migration agency distributing aid, as it is from their website and article.


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## jamal18

Apollon said:


> You forget to mention that all those nations are shitholes that offer their people nothing. That lays the foundation of revolution.


Hong Kong is a shit hole?


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## Apollon

jamal18 said:


> Hong Kong is a shit hole?



Compared to Singapore or Frankfurt...yes it is.

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## dBSPL

Wood said:


> Very curious about why Russians have not been able to shoot down these slow moving drones. Surely, they would have the tech to block them. But every other day we see successful strikes with only negligible news about the drones being shot down.
> 
> Any theories are welcome!





Paul2 said:


> Drones are to small, slow, and low to be shot down by missile based air defence.



Its body and structurals are made of prepreg and carbon fiber reinforced polymeric material. Due to its size (cross section) reflection is largely minimal. The other factor causing the detection difficulty is the very low cruise speed. It is very difficult to detect it out of its engagement range, except for some specific radar types and ways. And its compact low noise internal combustion injection engine and small silhouette make it very difficult to detect with the naked eye too.

In short, TB-2 operator countries obtained a system that can fly right above air defense systems with 4 pieces of SAL seeker and Tandem Effective warhead, under correct and smartly planned EW conditions. I remember that I have a few images on my pc, I will share a few more detailed results shortly:

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## jamal18

Apollon said:


> Compared to Singapore or Frankfurt...yes it is.


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## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> Alot of training of the Ukrainian Armed forces since the Crimean occupation has been done by the British Army.
> 
> You can see why Putin does not want Ukraine to have an army)(de-weaponise as he calls it) as a pre-condition to stopping the war.


He wants more than just taking all weapons from Ukraine. He wants Ukraine to accept the annexation of Crime. He wants East Ukraine. He wants the execution of Ukraine government. He wants Ukraine whatever remains be neutral. He wants marionette government.
He wants Nato to leave East Europe.
He wants the US to leave west Europe.

Putin believes he is God.

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## Apollon

Viet said:


> He wants more than just taking all weapons from Ukraine. He wants Ukraine to accept the annexation of Crime. He wants East Ukraine. He wants the execution of Ukraine government. He wants Ukraine whatever remains be neutral. He wants marionette government.
> He wants Nato to leave East Europe.
> He wants the US to leave west Europe.
> 
> Putin believes he is God.



Putins time is over. He achieved nothing and best was his show in the statdium where he told russians ghat luxury is not important, while he did wear a 14.000 € luxury javket made in italy. That guy is in his last days as president

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## CrazyZ

Ich said:


> Yes, that is why everyone try to develop laser weapons to overcome this scenario.


My sense is that TB2 is a bigger threat to the laser then the laser would be to it.

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## F-22Raptor

*The ultimate fall of Mariupol is increasingly unlikely to free up enough Russian combat power to change the outcome of the initial campaign dramatically.* Russian forces concentrated considerable combat power around Mariupol drawn from the 8th Combined Arms Army to the east and from the group of Russian forces in Crimea to the west. Had the Russians taken Mariupol quickly or with relatively few losses they would likely have been able to move enough combat power west toward Zaporizhiya and Dnipro to threaten those cities. The protracted siege of Mariupol is seriously weakening Russian forces on that axis, however. The confirmed death of the commander of the Russian 150th Motorized Rifle Division likely indicates the scale of the damage Ukrainian defenders are inflicting on those formations. The block-by-block fighting in Mariupol itself is costing the Russian military time, initiative, and combat power. If and when Mariupol ultimately falls the Russian forces now besieging it may not be strong enough to change the course of the campaign dramatically by attacking to the west.

*Russian forces in the south appear to be focusing on a drive toward Kryvyi Rih, presumably to isolate and then take Zaporizhiya and Dnipro from the west but are unlikely to secure any of those cities in the coming weeks if at all. *Kryvyi Rih is a city of more than 600,000 and heavily fortified according to the head of its military administration. Zaporizhiya and Dnipro are also large. The Russian military has been struggling to take Mariupol, smaller than any of them, since the start of the war with more combat power than it is currently pushing toward Kryvyi Rih. The Russian advance on that axis is thus likely to bog down as all other Russian advances on major cities have done.





__





Institute for the Study of War


Ukrainian forces have defeated the initial Russian campaign of this war. That campaign aimed to conduct airborne and mechanized operations to seize Kyiv, Kharkiv, Odesa, and other major Ukrainian cities to force a change of government in Ukraine. That




www.understandingwar.org






The Institute for the Study of War assessment of Mauripols potential fall to Russian forces. Russia has taken significant losses in Mauripol, and the force that remains will unlikely have the combat power to take cities like Zaporizhiya and Dnipro.

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## dBSPL

@CrazyZ @Paul2 @Wood

TB2 detectability for RuAF, theorycrafting using C:MO Simulation Software.
Scenario: When, how, and how far away does RuAF actually detect TB2 in Clean and MAML configuration.

Initial Scenario: 2 sets of TB2, with MAML and Clean.
- AEW with A-50U with Shmel-2 E-Band Radar
- Ground Radar with Big Bird D (91N6A) Radar.
No detection.





Expanded: 2 sets of TB2, with MAML and Clean.
- 2 AEW with A-50U with Shmel-2 E-Band Radar
- Ground Radar with Big Bird D (91N6A) Radar.
No detection.





Even more Radar: 2 sets of TB2, with MAML and Clean.
- 2 AEW with A-50U with Shmel-2 E-Band Radar
- Ground Radar with Big Bird D (91N6A) and Bill Board B (9S15M Obzor)
- SU-35S with IRBIS-E PESA (Slot Back)
No detection






We get detection at about 40nm for MAML equipped TB2, about 37nm for clean TB2.






BONUS:

Throwing the most modern Pantsir / SA-22 into the mix, with HOT SHOT E-Band Radar.. *detects exactly nothing*, surrounded by 4 TB2.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505624831458430982


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## OldTwilight

Apollon said:


> Ha ha ha ha from their own propaganda website Ria Novosti
> 
> France found another 22 billion assets of the russian central bank
> 
> 
> 
> https://ria.ru/20220320/frantsiya-1779141720.html
> 
> 
> 
> With the 380 billion we already took from Russia we are now at 402 billion €.
> 
> To give an imprrssion, thats worth 48 years pension payments for all russian pensioners.
> 
> Oh those russians. Putin is such a genius. He wants drown Europe with russian cash. 🤣😂



daylight rubbery ... that why countries start to seek alternative for dollars and euro ...


----------



## Meengla

Viet said:


> The relationship between the west and Russia is broken beyond repair. The winner is China.
> Putin can begin to learn chinese. He has only China as partner, while chinese have the choice to pick whom they please. Putin hates the west so much he is willing to make Russia to a chinese vassal.



Though I don't agree with the 'vassal' part, Russia's door to the west or even most of Europe is closed for the foreseeable future. And you are also right: This is a Chinese victory. The 'strategic ambiguity' which Russia had is gone. And I think Indians are nervously watching this all. From the blogspace, Indians are extremely wary of American support.
We sure are living in interesting times!


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## Apollon




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## Viet

tower9 said:


> I don't know which member you are talking about but that's purely your subjective view and considering how much vitriol you regularly issue, I am not surprised you would get those types of comments.
> 
> What I am talking about is on a society wide scale. In China, there is a healthy respect for European culture, the various attributes of different European societies, European classical music, etc. In the West, it's mostly just fake news and legalized hate speech against China. That is why Westerners remain vastly ignorant about modern China.


Relax there is no hate no love.
Most Europeans know too little about China that they hate or dislike you chinese. majority Europeans know chinese from visiting restaurants, that’s all.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505645975767064580

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## Apollon

OldTwilight said:


> daylight rubbery ... that why countries start to seek alternative for dollars and euro ...



Let them seek in the end we get it anyways.

we are rich and no matter what you need to trade with us. Even Iran depends on us


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505647701148553218

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## Ich

CrazyZ said:


> My sense is that TB2 is a bigger threat to the laser then the laser would be to it.



At the moment a direct hit on the UAV would be difficult if it flies high enough, yes. But the CRAM capabillity of the existing laser weapons are good. So falling bombs ect. are not a problem. Also suicide drones can be disabled.

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## Viet

Meengla said:


> Though I don't agree with the 'vassal' part, Russia's door to the west or even most of Europe is closed for the foreseeable future. And you are also right: This is a Chinese victory. The 'strategic ambiguity' which Russia had is gone. And I think Indians are nervously watching this all. From the blogspace, Indians are extremely wary of American support.
> We sure are living in interesting times!


Trust me, Putin makes his country to a vassal. Look, Putin only has gas and oil to offer to the new chinese master. the problem for Russia is, national resources count little value in hightec economy. Modern manufacturing require less energy. it’s just one percent of total value. Russia image even in Asia is finished. How can you trust a warmonger and liar?

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## UKBengali

Apollon said:


> Ha ha ha ha from their own propaganda website Ria Novosti
> 
> France found another 22 billion assets of the russian central bank
> 
> 
> 
> https://ria.ru/20220320/frantsiya-1779141720.html
> 
> 
> 
> With the 380 billion we already took from Russia we are now at 402 billion €.
> 
> To give an imprrssion, thats worth 48 years pension payments for all russian pensioners.
> 
> Oh those russians. Putin is such a genius. He wants drown Europe with russian cash. 🤣😂






Unfortunately you overestimate what sanctions can do to Russia in 2022 as China is fully backing it. They just told the US that they are sympathetic to Russians over Ukraine war.

Top 5 trade partners of Russia in 2020:


1. China - 112 billion US dollars
2. Germany - 46 billion US dollars
3. Netherlands - 37 billion US dollars
4. US - 29 billion US dollars
5. Turkey - 26 billion US dollars

Out of those 5, only 3 will impose full or partial sanctions on it as the EU wants to phase out Russian oil and gas imports by 2027!


India is about to quadruple oil imports from Russia and so they will be able to slowly find alternative markets to the West in the next 5 years.


Edit - In 2021 trade between Russia and China hit 147 billion US dollars.

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## Messerschmitt

dBSPL said:


> @CrazyZ @Paul2 @Wood
> 
> TB2 detectability for RuAF, theorycrafting using C:MO Simulation Software.
> Scenario: When, how, and how far away does RuAF actually detect TB2 in Clean and MAML configuration.
> 
> Initial Scenario: 2 sets of TB2, with MAML and Clean.
> - AEW with A-50U with Shmel-2 E-Band Radar
> - Ground Radar with Big Bird D (91N6A) Radar.
> No detection.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Expanded: 2 sets of TB2, with MAML and Clean.
> - 2 AEW with A-50U with Shmel-2 E-Band Radar
> - Ground Radar with Big Bird D (91N6A) Radar.
> No detection.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even more Radar: 2 sets of TB2, with MAML and Clean.
> - 2 AEW with A-50U with Shmel-2 E-Band Radar
> - Ground Radar with Big Bird D (91N6A) and Bill Board B (9S15M Obzor)
> - SU-35S with IRBIS-E PESA (Slot Back)
> No detection
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We get detection at about 40nm for MAML equipped TB2, about 37nm for clean TB2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BONUS:
> 
> Throwing the most modern Pantsir / SA-22 into the mix, with HOT SHOT E-Band Radar.. *detects exactly nothing*, surrounded by 4 TB2.


@PeeD could you share your thoughts on this please?


----------



## dBSPL

This is Huge:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505638932217749508
With Ukraine's invitation, Poland can secure Ukraine's refugee (err i mean military supply) routes.

Reminder: The US had sent Patriot air defense battalion to Poland with an emergency code.



UKBengali said:


> Top 5 trade partners of Russia in 2021:
> 
> 
> 1. China - 112 billion US dollars
> 2. Germany - 46 billion US dollars
> 3. Netherlands - 37 billion US dollars
> 4. US - 29 billion US dollars
> 5. Turkey - 26 billion US dollars


TR will be the second or third place between 2022-2023.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505649091627339781


----------



## Apollon

UKBengali said:


> Unfortunately you overestimate what sanctions can do to Russia in 2022 as China is fully backing it. They just told the US that they are sympathetic to Russians over Ukraine war.
> 
> Top 5 trade partners of Russia in 2020:
> 
> 
> 1. China - 112 billion US dollars
> 2. Germany - 46 billion US dollars
> 3. Netherlands - 37 billion US dollars
> 4. US - 29 billion US dollars
> 5. Turkey - 26 billion US dollars
> 
> Out of those 5, only 3 will impose full or partial sanctions on it as the EU wants to phase out Russian oil and gas imports by 2027!
> 
> 
> India is about to quadruple oil imports from Russia and so they will be able to slowly find alternative markets to the West in the next 5 years.
> 
> 
> Edit - In 2021 trade between Russia and China hit 147 billion US dollars.



Even more crazy when you see that we took 402 billion from russia. Thats 2.5 years trade volume with China. The amount of lost assets that we took from them is astronomical.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## OldTwilight

Apollon said:


> Let them seek in the end we get it anyways.
> 
> we are rich and no matter what you need to trade with us. Even Iran depends on us



well , I don't think you understand the consequence of this act ... 
If you can froze a nuclear power assets then you can do to any other country ... 
logical act is not hold money in west or use their currencies as assets to save rich ... 


what European countries would do if Russians thread to use their nukes if they don't free up their assets !? after all they don't have any legal basis for this rubbery ...

well , look like the arrogant westerns don't want to think about this at all !!

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## UKBengali

Apollon said:


> Even more crazy when you see that we took 402 billion from russia. Thats 2.5 years trade volume with China. The amount of lost assets that we took from them is astronomical.






Yes but Russia will simply deduct some of this in terms of the debts they owe to the West.

I do not know exactly how much of this is owed to the West but even if it is only half then take off 250 billion US dollars that they will not pay back.


----------



## Meengla

This sounds so bizarre??









Ukraine's Zelenskiy presses Israel for missile defence help, fighting rages in Mariupol


Russian and Ukrainian forces fought for control of the port city of Mariupol on Sunday, local authorities said, while Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy appealed to Israel for help in pushing back the Russian assault on his country.




www.reuters.com





"Everybody knows that your missile defence systems are the best... and that you can definitely help our people, save the lives of Ukrainians, of Ukrainian Jews," said Zelenskiy, who is of Jewish heritage.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Relax there is no hate no love.
> Most Europeans know too little about China that they hate or dislike you chinese. majority Europeans know chinese from visiting restaurants, that’s all.



reported for racism


----------



## oberschlesier

OldTwilight said:


> what European countries would do if Russians thread to use their nukes if they don't free up their assets !?


Simple, tell Russia - Do it!

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## OldTwilight

Meengla said:


> This sounds so bizarre??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine's Zelenskiy presses Israel for missile defence help, fighting rages in Mariupol
> 
> 
> Russian and Ukrainian forces fought for control of the port city of Mariupol on Sunday, local authorities said, while Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy appealed to Israel for help in pushing back the Russian assault on his country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Everybody knows that your missile defence systems are the best... and that you can definitely help our people, save the lives of Ukrainians, of Ukrainian Jews," said Zelenskiy, who is of Jewish heritage.



well , now that Iran is openly targeting Israelis bases , I doubt they dare to help Ukraine and make Russia angry ... 

Russians were helping Israelis against Iran in Syria ... or atleast , they were binding Iran hand and in same times , they were keeping their eyes close against Israelis attack against Iran ... 

Zelenski is an idiot ...

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## KAL-EL

oberschlesier said:


> Simple, tell Russia - Do it!



Yes! Tell them to do it!

Which they won't..

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## OldTwilight

oberschlesier said:


> Simple, tell Russia - Do it!



I'm not Russians , this is a question from you guys , what you will do if Russians give this ultimatum to you ?
start a world war III and get killed for sake of rubbery ...

and did you know by freezing Russians assets , you give them one of best excuse in history books for invading or initiating a "JUSTIFIED" war against yourselves ?


you can sanction others ( which can be seen as act of war ) and get away with it , but you can not take other counties money and get away with it ...

well , you take Iran money , we don't have enough power to do anything , but if we have enough power to back our words , we simply would burn the world for it ... or at least some Iranians like me would ask for it ...



KAL-EL said:


> Yes! Tell them to do it!
> 
> Which they won't..



see , all of you dodging the question instead of answering it ...

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Apollon

OldTwilight said:


> well , I don't think you understand the consequence of this act ...
> If you can froze a nuclear power assets then you can do to any other country ...
> logical act is not hold money in west or use their currencies as assets to save rich ...
> 
> 
> what European countries would do if Russians thread to use their nukes if they don't free up their assets !? after all they don't have any legal basis for this rubbery ...
> 
> well , look like the arrogant westerns don't want to think about this at all !!



We have nukes ourself buddy.

Also i dont think taking money is equal to threaten with death. If i take stuff from you, you can counter in taking from me but not threaten with death. 

I think thats also in iranuan law that life is holy even if we are robbing you.



UKBengali said:


> Yes but Russia will simply deduct some of this in terms of the debts they owe to the West.
> 
> I do not know exactly how much of this is owed to the West but even if it is only half then take off 250 billion US dollars that they will not pay back.



I know, they said if we look at debt ect we are still 100 billion in plus


----------



## Tamerlane

Meengla said:


> Though I don't agree with the 'vassal' part, Russia's door to the west or even most of Europe is closed for the foreseeable future. And you are also right: This is a Chinese victory. The 'strategic ambiguity' which Russia had is gone. And I think Indians are nervously watching this all. From the blogspace, Indians are extremely wary of American support.
> We sure are living in interesting times!



If Europe knew what's best for it they wouldn't have fallen for the anti-Russia bandwagon. This war is meant to damage Europe as much as Russia. We got this war just when Nord Stream 2 was ready to start pumping gas and Germany and Russia would have become closer.

I support Germany in doing a Hitlerian level of rearmament and then breaking away from Anglo-Zionist control. Not that it would be easy, since Germany is firmly in their grip.

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## oberschlesier

OldTwilight said:


> I'm not Russians , this is a question from you guys , what you will do if Russians give this ultimatum to you ?
> start a world war III and get killed for sake of rubbery ...
> 
> and did you know by freezing Russians assets , you give them one of best excuse in history books for invading or initiating a "JUSTIFIED" war against yourselves ?
> 
> 
> you can sanction others ( which can be seen as act of war ) and get away with it , but you can take other counties money ...
> 
> well , you take Iran money , we didn't have enough power to do anything , but if we had enoguth power to back our words , we simply would burn the world for it ... or at least some Iranians like me would ask for it ...
> 
> 
> 
> see , all of you dodging the question instead of answering it ...



I would ignore the ultimatum.

Anyway You dramatising. These sactions are designed to increase their costs, not bring them down. Feeezing assets is not taking their money, is blocking it`s usage for specific time. Anyway, why did they put the money in Western banks and currency in the first place, when they were planning such an action ?

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## Meengla

OldTwilight said:


> well , now that Iran is openly targeting Israelis bases , I doubt they dare to help Ukraine and make Russia angry ...
> Russians were helping Israelis against Iran in Syria ... or atleast , they were binding Iran hand and in same times , they were keeping their eyes close against Israelis attack against Iran ...
> Zelenski is an idiot ...



Wow, didn't know all those aspects of Iran and Syria. 
But, yes, Zelensky sounds like an idiot for bringing up the Jewish angle, asking for Israeli help. Bringing religion is one quick way to polarize people from different countries.


----------



## Apollon

OldTwilight said:


> I'm not Russians , this is a question from you guys , what you will do if Russians give this ultimatum to you ?
> start a world war III and get killed for sake of rubbery ...
> 
> and did you know by freezing Russians assets , you give them one of best excuse in history books for invading or initiating a "JUSTIFIED" war against yourselves ?
> 
> 
> you can sanction others ( which can be seen as act of war ) and get away with it , but you can not take other counties money and get away with it ...
> 
> well , you take Iran money , we don't have enough power to do anything , but if we have enough power to back our words , we simply would burn the world for it ... or at least some Iranians like me would ask for it ...
> 
> 
> 
> see , all of you dodging the question instead of answering it ...



Well answer your question. You think we would give the money back then or what?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ukrainians captured another Msta-S self propelled howitzer from Russian bums who invade Ukraine for land and women.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505617576990330883

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## mmr

OldTwilight said:


> I'm not Russians , this is a question from you guys , what you will do if Russians give this ultimatum to you ?
> start a world war III and get killed for sake of rubbery ...
> 
> and did you know by freezing Russians assets , you give them one of best excuse in history books for invading or initiating a "JUSTIFIED" war against yourselves ?
> 
> 
> you can sanction others ( which can be seen as act of war ) and get away with it , but you can not take other counties money and get away with it ...
> 
> well , you take Iran money , we don't have enough power to do anything , but if we have enough power to back our words , we simply would burn the world for it ... or at least some Iranians like me would ask for it ...
> 
> 
> 
> see , all of you dodging the question instead of answering it ...


Russian love to invest in Europe. All there rich ppl invest in us and eu.


Good thing its now all seize. More is coming. All these assets will be tied for years to come. In mean time russia cant do anything other then whinning.

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## vizier

Top attack atgms and low observable drones seem to be not currently defeatable by tanks. Only passive measures like smoke screen and efficient dispersion can be developed and installed on tanks with limited effectiveness. Smoke screen needs to cover 360 degrees and also on top of the tank for unlocking top attack missiles. It should also block both IR for blocking heat seekers and visible spectrum to block optical-laser guidance. Also chaff dispersion is necessary for hellfire agm types that have mmw radar seekers.

Also some specialised platforms are needed to detect incoming atgm launches then alert all vehicles to launch their smoke screens individually. The early warning vehicle needs to include both a radar dome and iir array 360 degree seeker. It is evident that tanks detection systems are not enough and air defense platforms, apcs, mlrs etc. cannot carry sensors required to detect atgms all at the same time. Some quad copter cheap drones need to be in air continiously scanning for laser pointers on the ground targeting the vehicles or nearby.






This also wont work against uav guided artillery strikes or mini drone attacks like switchblade having low ir/radar signature. Smaller glide bombs also would have very low radar-ir signature. Mam-L missile that TB-2 uses has small size and ir signature and only after the initial attack they can deploy passive measures to obscure themselves.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505660843085684738

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Putin vows to make the people of Kiev live in agony forever.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505654375590600712


----------



## Apollon

mmr said:


> Russian love to invest in Europe. All there rich ppl invest in us and eu.
> 
> 
> Good thing its now all seize. More is coming. All these assets will be tied for years to come. In mean time russia cant do anything other then whinning.



The only thing we did not seize is vlads 12.400€ jacket.

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## OldTwilight

Apollon said:


> We have nukes ourself buddy.
> 
> Also i dont think taking money is equal to threaten with death. If i take stuff from you, you can counter in taking from me but not threaten with death.
> 
> I think thats also in iranuan law that life is holy even if we are robbing you.
> 
> 
> 
> I know, they said if we look at debt ect we are still 100 billion in plus



I Knew you have ( although both Greece and Germany don't have nukes ) , but will you enter a nuclear war for it ?


*I think thats also in iranuan law that life is holy even if we are robbing you.*

well , we would rather die to let other countries rub us ... USA thinks is can get away with robbing our money , but we never forget about what they owe to us and if we find power or they become weak , we will get back our money with its interest from them or if they don't pay , we will make sure they receive more marital damage than what they owe us ...

Iranians generally are stubborn and Vindictive people ...


----------



## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505660843085684738



Since you hail Putin, what you think about bombing cizies and shopping centers? What you feel when you see it? Do you support this?


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505654066575204358

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Amliunion

Mariupol: chechens in action 


Spoiler: Graphic 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505647140210675715

Reactions: Like Like:
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## OldTwilight

Apollon said:


> Well answer your question. You think we would give the money back then or what?



well , you would give money back , or If you not and Russians are not bluffing , we ( Iranians and other none western counties ) would enjoy you arrogant western blown up yourselves to stonge age in a nuclear war and get exterminate in process ...

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## mmr

Apollon said:


> The only thing we did not seize is vlads 12.400€ jacket.


There are now talks to go after russian millionaires too not just billionaires.

West need to seize everything possible. Every cents.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505645253159755780


----------



## OldTwilight

mmr said:


> There are now talks to go after russian millionaires too not just billionaires.
> 
> West need to seize everything possible. Every cents.



I hope you guys make Russians cornered and desperate and drive them to madness ...


----------



## Vergennes

mmr said:


> There are now talks to go after russian millionaires too not just billionaires.
> 
> West need to seize everything possible. Every cents.



Don't worry the real rulers of Russia (oligarchs) will soon gang up against Putin after making them lose billions of $.

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## oberschlesier

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505660843085684738


Russia does not like shopping centers.


----------



## reflecthofgeismar

NotSure said:


> He is a spoiled, uneducated kid, haven't even finished school yet and worked a day for his living, but bragging loud about the money of his parents. Writing things like: *10 € gas* price is ok. Because he is rich!
> 
> Do you REALLY expect this lunatic do understand even basic things? And no, he does not give a shit about germany or europe, the people here, it is all about his lunacy. All about being the loudest, when it comes to political correctness.
> 
> People like him are the death sentence for europe and the west.



They are the final product of the hypocritical and warmongering medial brainwashing.
Maybe he is REALLY young, then it's "ok", happened to many later - realistic (or at least more realistic) thinking persons too (ideological thinking in a unrealistic scale).
When you have to drive a lot to go to work to feed your family and paying the rent and you aren't born with golden spoon in you a*s you will "feel" it.

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## mmr

Vergennes said:


> Don't worry soon the real rulers of Russia (oligarchs) will soon gang up against Putin after making them lose billions of $.


Putler is just dumb. Ppl give him too much credits.


----------



## OldTwilight

Vergennes said:


> Don't worry the real rulers of Russia (oligarchs) will soon gang up against Putin after making them lose billions of $.



Or maybe they stay behind him and understand they are nothing without a strong motherland to back them up ...

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## Messerschmitt

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505660843085684738




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505664553190842378


----------



## Amliunion

oberschlesier said:


> Russia does not like shopping centers.



Ukranian cities as well. They've been turned to ashes.


----------



## oberschlesier

Amliunion said:


> Ukranian cities as well. They've been turned to ashes.


The eastern ones. Populated by russian speakers. They are defintelly very happy about this.

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## tower9

Tamerlane said:


> If Europe knew what's best for it they wouldn't have fallen for the anti-Russia bandwagon. This war is meant to damage Europe as much as Russia. We got this war just when Nord Stream 2 was ready to start pumping gas and Germany and Russia would have become closer.
> 
> I support Germany in doing a Hitlerian level of rearmament and then breaking away from Anglo-Zionist control. Not that it would be easy, since Germany is firmly in their grip.


That’s pretty much impossible since zionist control over Germany has pretty much reduced that country into a groveling cuck forever ashamed of being German because of their unforgivable crime against the Jews. The German spirit is broken.

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## Amliunion

Apollon said:


> Since you hail Putin, what you think about bombing cizies and shopping centers? What you feel when you see it? Do you support this?



I don’t support this. I am against this US Proxy War with Russia. Unfortunately, Zelensky Government has no diplomats or good advisers. Praying that Turkey, France & Germany can mediate Peace between Russia & Ukraine.

You want to Supply Weapons to Ukrainian, as you want to Fight Russia till last standing Ukrainian. You must he enjoying this bloodshed.

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## lightning F57

Hard reality is Russia will end up achieving its objectives might mean the deaths of thousands of their troops and tens thousands of Ukrainians. I think its better for Zelinsky to surrender and accept Putins terms. No one can retake Crimea without a direct conflict with Russia, we know Nato wont go there or Europe. The 2 breakaway regions are gone too, better to save the country from breaking up like Yugoslavia than let this drag on.

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## OldTwilight

Amliunion said:


> I don’t support this. I am against this US Proxy War with Russia. Unfortunately, Zelensky Government has no diplomats or good advisers. Praying that Turkey, France & Germany can mediate Peace between Russia & Ukraine.
> 
> You want to Supply Weapons to Ukrainian, as you want to Fight Russia till last standing Ukrainian. You must he enjoying this bloodshed?
> 
> 
> Don't know. It seems it's Kyiv's turn now.



Its odd , because there wouldn't be any Greece if it wasn't for Russians constants pressure on Ottoman empire ...


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505455651396407301


----------



## OldTwilight

lightning F57 said:


> Hard reality is Russia will end up achieving its objectives might mean the deaths of thousands of their troops and tens thousands of Ukrainians. I think its better for Zelinsky to surrender and accept Putins terms. No one can retake Crimea without a direct conflict with Russia, we know Nato wont go there or Europe. The 2 breakaway regions are gone too, better to save the country from breaking up like Yugoslavia than let this drag on.



Ukraine government wasn't a ideological government , they could play safe with Russians with good relationship with west and use both side resource in their advantage ... 

blind hatred with neo-nazi imposed to them by the western put them to unsolvable odd with Russians ...

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## oberschlesier

Amliunion said:


> I don’t support this. I am against this US Proxy War with Russia. Unfortunately, Zelensky Government has no diplomats or good advisers. Praying that Turkey, France & Germany can mediate Peace between Russia & Ukraine.
> 
> You want to Supply Weapons to Ukrainian, as you want to Fight Russia till last standing Ukrainian. You must he enjoying this bloodshed.


It`s not a US Proxy war. It`s Russia trying to subjugate Ukraine with force, as their policy completely failed. Helping them to defend themself is not being part in this war. Generally nothing good will come out of this war for Russia and russian Speakers in eastern Ukraine.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505667582027874309


----------



## Amliunion

oberschlesier said:


> It`s not a US Proxy war. It`s Russia trying to subjugate Ukraine with force, as their policy completely failed. Helping them to defend themself is not being part in this war. Generally nothing good will come out of this war for Russia and russian Speakers in eastern Ukraine.



Hope you know who poured Billions in Ukraine, sponsored Maiden Protest & got regime change? I can list down quite a things which lead to this but it is futile.

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## F-22Raptor

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505455651396407301




Sergei, you've already lost strategically.


----------



## Vergennes

LMAO,Russians invade Ukraine with dubious and BS reasons but somehow it is the US/Ukraine fault. Some here are so brainwashed by their anti western hatred and swallowed every bit of Russian propaganda for years that they would believe anything Russia would want them to believe.

To be honest majority of Russians support this agression against Ukraine I have no pity for everything that's happening to them and the body bags coming (for those they recover I'd say) back home.

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## Amliunion

F-22Raptor said:


> Sergei, you've already lost strategically.


Yes, on Social Media.


----------



## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> Sergei, you've already lost strategically.


Not really but okay


----------



## jamal18

For those interested, a look at how the Russian economy will handle sanctions.


----------



## OldTwilight

oberschlesier said:


> It`s not a US Proxy war. It`s Russia trying to subjugate Ukraine with force, as their policy completely failed. Helping them to defend themself is not being part in this war. Generally nothing good will come out of this war for Russia and russian Speakers in eastern Ukraine.



you don't help them to defend themselves ... you just using them as cannon fodder against Russians ... 
even if Russians pull out tomorrow , who will pay for rebuilding Ukraine to what her was prior to war , you or Ukrainian themselves ... 


The idea of joining NATO wasn't worth it for Ukrainian ... 


by every passing day , Russians army will lose more solders and personnel and at some point , they wouldn't stop at anything except total victory or destruction , even Puttin can not control an army which sacrificed so much solders in war and just sign a cease fire ...

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505627095942189066


----------



## F-22Raptor

Amliunion said:


> Yes, on Social Media.



Is Russia in a better position today economically, politically, or militarily than it was a month ago? Yes they’ve already lost strategically and from a military tactical standpoint their getting wrecked. 

Yes Russia has already lost. Economically their already being sent to the Stone Age.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505601618255007748


F-22Raptor said:


> Is Russia in a better position today economically, politically, or militarily than it was a month ago? Yes they’ve already lost strategically and from a military tactical standpoint their getting wrecked.
> 
> Yes Russia has already lost. Economically their already being sent to the *Stone Age.*



Lmao. Whatever helps float you boat.


----------



## Vergennes

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505627095942189066



Russians are so desperate (thought they were winning?) that they have to bring in trashes from Syria and states that do not even exist.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505669446765101056


----------



## khansaheeb

Apollon said:


> We have nukes ourself buddy.
> 
> Also i dont think taking money is equal to threaten with death. If i take stuff from you, you can counter in taking from me but not threaten with death.
> 
> I think thats also in iranuan law that life is holy even if we are robbing you.
> 
> 
> 
> I know, they said if we look at debt ect we are still 100 billion in plus


Neither Greece or Germany has nukes, what are you talking about?


----------



## oberschlesier

Amliunion said:


> Hope you know who poured Billions in Ukraine, sponsored Maiden Protest & got regime change? I can list down quite a things which lead to this but it is futile.


"poured Billions in Ukraine" - why not, if they ask for it to defend them selfs and want to do reforms. Euro maidan was about the EU and having a better quality of life in the future. Generally Ukrainians are rebelious and proud and self organising, making out of them "small russians" for years rather did not help, on the contrary it was a completely stupid strategy. Even if Russians will be able to somehow control Ukraine, in a couple of years you will have another maidan, orange revolution, chmielnicky uprasing, peltura, you name it. I know many Ukrainians, I know what I`m writting.

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## Amliunion

Vergennes said:


> Russians are so desperate (thought they were winning?) that they have to bring in trashes from Syria and states that do not even exist.


FYI: Ossetian forces were integrated with Russian Army.

US/NATO - Strategic Allies: Taliban, Alqueda, ISIS-Daesh etc., enough of your sanctimonious.

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## Vergennes

oberschlesier said:


> "poured Billions in Ukraine" - why not, if they ask for it to defend them selfs and want to do reforms. Euro maidan was about the EU and having a better quality of life in the future. Generally Ukrainians are rebelious and proud and self organising, making out of them "small russians" for years rather did not help, on the contrary it was a completely stupid strategy. Even if Russians will be able to somehow control Ukraine, in a couple of years you will have another maidan, orange revolution, chmielnicky uprasing, peltura, you name it. I know many Ukrainians, I know what I`m writting.



In fact Russians expected Ukrainians to welcome them with open arms while it is totally the opposite. This crisis is creating more hatred from Ukrainians towards Russians and Russia. 

Even the anti Russian sentiment is growing strong in eastern Ukraine despite being majority Russian speaking,in fact they are asking themselves "how could Russians do this to us?".

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## Amliunion

oberschlesier said:


> "poured Billions in Ukraine" - why not, if they ask for it to defend them selfs and want to do reforms. Euro maidan was about the EU and having a better quality of life in the future. Generally Ukrainians are rebelious and proud and self organising, making out of them "small russians" for years rather did not help, on the contrary it was a completely stupid strategy. Even if Russians will be able to somehow control Ukraine, in a couple of years you will have another maidan, orange revolution, chmielnicky uprasing, peltura, you name it. I know many Ukrainians, I know what I`m writting.


Billions of Dollars were Poured for regime change, not reforms. Plenty of information is available on this on Internet. Apparently, you can look for it.

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## oberschlesier

OldTwilight said:


> you don't help them to defend themselves ... you just using them as cannon fodder against Russians ...
> even if Russians pull out tomorrow , who will pay for rebuilding Ukraine to what her was prior to war , you or Ukrainian themselves ...
> 
> 
> The idea of joining NATO wasn't worth it for Ukrainian ...
> 
> 
> by every passing day , Russians army will lose more solders and personnel and at some point , they wouldn't stop at anything except total victory or destruction , even Puttin can not control an army which sacrificed so much solders in war and just sign a cease fire ...


Nobody is using Ukrainians. 300K of them left Poland and their life here to defend their country out of pure patriotism. Yes, If Ukraine would be in NATO now, this war would not happen. This war is destructive for Ukraine and Russia. Most of fighting is in the eastern part, populated by russian speakers. I find this to be a great idea of the Russian side and great start for a commom future with those people.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505673237975474184


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505673972628787202


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

It looks like Belarus will invade northwest Ukraine.


----------



## oberschlesier

Amliunion said:


> Billions of Dollars were Poured for regime change, not reforms. Plenty of information is available on this on Internet. Apparently, you can look for it.


Yes, Internet  I don`t have to look in the internet, I know personally Ukrainians. On example, they got some money from the EU and were able to nicely improve some of they main roads. Now russia comes and destroys this and bombs shoping centers. They are going to love each other for centuries after this.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505627095942189066



What next? Mongols from the Russian far east?


----------



## Wood

Zelenskyy interviewed by Fareed Zakaria on CNN


----------



## Amliunion

oberschlesier said:


> Yes, Internet  I don`t have to look in the internet, I know personally Ukrainians. On example, they got some money from the EU and were able to nicely improve some of they main roads. Now russia comes and destroys this and bombs shoping centers. They are going to love each other for centuries after this.


Even I know Ukrainians personally. That's not the matter of debate now.

_Please help me with the Reforms done with Billions of USD poured in Ukraine. Then we can take this further_.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505673237975474184



Easy prey for Su-35.


----------



## Amliunion

Tai Hai Chen said:


> What next? Mongols from the Russian far east?



Already answered:


Amliunion said:


> FYI: Ossetian forces were integrated with Russian Army.
> 
> US/NATO - Strategic Allies: Taliban, Alqueda, ISIS-Daesh etc., enough of your sanctimonious.


----------



## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505674222705729539


----------



## Amliunion

Grand Master has given Consent, let's see who takes initiative:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505674780321718275

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## oberschlesier

Tai Hai Chen said:


> It looks like Belarus will invade northwest Ukraine.


Through the swamps of polesie. Good luck, there like 4 roads there. It will be another long convoi story.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

oberschlesier said:


> Through the swamps of polesie. Good luck, there like 4 roads there. It will be another long convoi story.



The fewer the roads, the easier to invade.


----------



## oberschlesier

Amliunion said:


> Even I know Ukrainians personally. That's not the matter of debate now.
> 
> _Please help me with the Reforms done with Billions of USD poured in Ukraine. Then we can take this further_.


Of course it is. You are writing about stuff, you absolutely have no clue about.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Amliunion said:


> Grand Master has given Consent, let's see who takes initiative:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505674780321718275



Americans are such cowards.


----------



## Amliunion

oberschlesier said:


> Of course it is. You are writing about stuff, you absolutely have no clue about.



This feeling is mutual. That's why you cannot list down the so called reforms?


----------



## oberschlesier

Tai Hai Chen said:


> The fewer the roads, the easier to invade.


Easy to defend I would say. Belorussian army is really weak. I want to see it.



Amliunion said:


> This feeling is mutual. That's why you cannot list down the so called reforms?


First one I found:









EU report: Ukraine makes important progress in its reforms but more needs to be done in particular on the judiciary and fight against corruption


Ukraine has made progress in a number of important areas over the past year, but several outstanding reforms still need to be reinforced so that...




ec.europa.eu


----------



## lightning F57

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Americans are such cowards.


Your going to get them all falling over each other to reemphasis they wont be sending troops. I would so far to say if Poland was hit with missile strikes hitting depo's of arms for the Ukrainians Nato would do nothing but shout like a toothless tiger. They are not toothless yes, but they will not want any conflict with Russia directly at all costs.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

oberschlesier said:


> Easy to defend I would say. Belorussian army is really weak. I want to see it.
> 
> 
> First one I found:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU report: Ukraine makes important progress in its reforms but more needs to be done in particular on the judiciary and fight against corruption
> 
> 
> Ukraine has made progress in a number of important areas over the past year, but several outstanding reforms still need to be reinforced so that...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ec.europa.eu



Belarus is better armed than Ukraine.


----------



## oberschlesier

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Belarus is better armed than Ukraine.


It has one division of operational forces max.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505612537462722573


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505671795046862850

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## oberschlesier

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Better air force and land force.


You will see.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505678525612888071


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505664388891557892

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## Foinikas

Check out the rifles donated to the Ukrainians by various countries. That's enough to equip entire divisions of reserves and militia.


----------



## Tamerlane

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504949255672320005

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## oberschlesier

Tamerlane said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504949255672320005


Yes, Anti COVID vaccine movement to the rescue.


----------



## jhungary

PM blocks aluminium exports to Russia​


PM blocks aluminium exports to Russia



Hmm, this is going to go down badly, Australia is the leading world producer of Bauxite (Uncut Aluminium/Alunminum ore) and Russia is net importer

That goes into weapon making (mostly with aircraft and missile) and window to even cans......Soon, they will need to build those SU-35 with steel.......

and they can't ask China for help with this, because China also import Bauxite from Australia......









The World's Leading Bauxite Producing Countries


Australia is the world's leading producer of bauxite, an aluminium ore that is used as the primary source of the metal.




www.worldatlas.com

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505576218107662339
Real Z fans are crying in Russian social media. The fake ones here don't care for casualties

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## jhungary

Wood said:


> Real Z fans are crying in Russian social media. The fake ones here don't care for casualties


Well, mostly because they are sitting safe behind their computer in India, Pakistan or the West, they are like 10,000 miles away from war.....

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## Wood

Now, the Z army is recruiting numbnuts from Russia's Craig's list  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505576244720508941

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## jhungary

Wood said:


> Now, the Z army is recruiting numbnuts from Russia's Craig's list
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505576244720508941


Well, both country is broke AF now, the only different is Ukrainian are probably willing to fight for free seeing it's their city and their town is being attacked. 

I can see force conscription in Russia soon.

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## Vergennes

LMAO

@Wood 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505576545057869826

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505688421985144835


jhungary said:


> Well, mostly because they are sitting safe behind their computer in India, Pakistan or the West, they are like 10,000 miles away from war.....



And you are posting from Ukraine?


----------



## jhungary

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505688421985144835
> 
> 
> And you are posting from Ukraine?


A few years ago, I was. Not sure about you. And I could if I wanted, a few of my Ukrainian friend asked me to go, and i was even send one of those form for Foreign Legion. Whether or not I will take up that offer is up to me tho. I will not tell you or anyone would I go.

Plus it's quite clear I am not a Z supporter.


----------



## WotTen

jhungary said:


> PM blocks aluminium exports to Russia​
> 
> 
> PM blocks aluminium exports to Russia
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, this is going to go down badly, Australia is the leading world producer of Bauxite (Uncut Aluminium/Alunminum ore) and Russia is net importer



Federal elections due before July in Australia so expect both sides of the aisle to jump over each other, acting tough on Russia and China.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jhungary

WotTen said:


> Federal elections due before July in Australia so expect both sides of the aisle to jump over each other, acting tough on Russia and China.


In May actually, and Albanese also supported this decision (This is bi-partisan issue) 

The only one that didn't support this is probably Clive Palmer. And fat chance he will win.


----------



## Amliunion

jhungary said:


> A few years ago, I was. Not sure about you. And I could if I wanted, a few of my Ukrainian friend asked me to go, and i was even send one of those form for Foreign Legion. Whether or not I will take up that offer is up to me tho. I will not tell you or anyone would I go.
> 
> Plus it's quite clear I am not a Z supporter.



At present not, you being a Keyboard Warrior typing from 1000's miles yourself, like you are calling others.

We know US Strategic Allies- Taliban, Alqueda, ISIS-Daesh etc.,


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505699448768376837

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## jhungary

Amliunion said:


> At present not, you being a Keyboard Warrior typing from 1000's miles yourself, like you are calling others.
> 
> We know US Strategic Allies- Taliban, Alqueda, ISIS-Daesh etc.,


Actually, I am about to go to Ukraine. As I told you before, I am going to be absent between April and May. I still have not make up my mind yet. But yes, like you said, we will see. As I said before, I probably will not tell you probably after I came back if I do go.

And again, I am not a Z supporter


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505699665978744834

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505636025800040457

Reactions: Love Love:
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## sur

Amliunion said:


> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504931935704993799
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504932700507066371




Russia says it’s struck another mercenary base in Ukraine​Russian forces hit a Ukrainian special forces training center early on Sunday, *killing more than 100 local troops and foreign mercenaries*, the Ministry of Defense has said.
A Ukrainian Special Operations Forces training center* near the town of Ovruch in the northern Zhytomyr *Region, which hosted the mercenaries . . . A week ago, Russia destroyed another mercenary base at the *Yavoriv *range in the western *Lviv *region, saying that up to *180 *. . . after the strike, reports emerged of mercenaries fleeing to neighboring Poland in large numbers. . . .* Russia has warned that it was aware of all the locations of mercenaries on the territory of Ukraine and promised to continue targeting them *_*“without mercy.” *“*All further responsibility for the death of this category of foreign citizens in Ukraine rests solely with the leadership of these countries*,"_


Beside, Rus has said previously that such volunteers *will not have PoW status*.



jhungary said:


> A few years ago, I was. Not sure about you. *And I could if I wanted, a few of my Ukrainian friend asked me to go, and i was even send one of those form for Foreign Legion*. Whether or not I will take up that offer is up to me tho. I will not tell you or anyone would I go.
> 
> Plus it's quite clear I am not a Z supporter.



There's no word about *Wali *the sniper. Is there any news about his safety?




Wood said:


> Zelenskyy interviewed by Fareed Zakaria on CNN


An Israeli Jew in essence called Zelensky a liar 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505584296693751811
And also this article:
. . .Zelensky asked us to treat the Ukrainians like they treated us 80 years ago. *I’m sorry, but I think we will have to reject that request*. We are, after all, a moral nation.” 
. . . The *Ukrainian *Auxiliary *Police rounded up Jews to be massacred in Babyn Yar, Lviv and Zhytomyr*. About 80,000 Ukrainians volunteered for the SS
. . .some of the *worst *pogroms* in Jewish history were* perpetrated *in* what is now *Ukraine*.










West made mistake in promising Ukraine NATO membership: Borrell


The West has made a number of mistakes in relations with Russia, including a promise to Ukraine to join NATO, the European Union's foreign policy...




www.dailysabah.com








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506079247617638411

Reactions: Like Like:
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## khansaheeb

mmr said:


> There are now talks to go after russian millionaires too not just billionaires.
> 
> West need to seize everything possible. Every cents.


I suppose that is what you call *Free*dom to take what you want.


----------



## jhungary

Amliunion said:


> In previous Post I mentioned whom you support 'Taliban, Alqueda, ISIS-Daesh etc.,'.
> 
> When you land in Ukraine then preach until, you are a Keyboard Warrior.


LOL.

I never commented issue on the ground or support either side on this forum, so no, I am not a keyboard warrior like you.

And if you really love Russia so much, why don't you go there and fight with them? Or even just go there and live in Russia post-sanction? I am pretty sure they are going to need bozo like you to fill the rank seeing how many people they have lost.

Did you see the ad? They are offering people 30,000 ruble for 30 days service, maybe you should join up.

Also, there is a common denomination bettween Taliban, AlQueda and ISIS, care to tell me what that is?

They are all using Russian Weapon.


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505636025800040457


The Russian embassy in Portugal also had the same treatment a few days ago


----------



## Tamerlane

jhungary said:


> Actually, I am about to go to Ukraine. As I told you before, I am going to be absent between April and May. I still have not make up my mind yet. But yes, like you said, we will see. As I said before, I probably will not tell you probably after I came back if I do go.
> 
> And again, I am not a Z supporter



That’s taking it too far. We may be on different sides on this issue, but please don’t throw away your life fighting someone else’s war. Ukraine is a treacherous place and you’ll never figure out who to trust.


----------



## Amliunion

jhungary said:


> LOL.
> 
> I never commented issue on the ground or support either side on this forum, so no, I am not a keyboard warrior like you.
> 
> And if you really love Russia so much, why don't you go there and fight with them? Or even just go there and live in Russia post-sanction? I am pretty sure they are going to need bozo like you to fill the rank seeing how many people they have lost.
> 
> Did you see the ad? They are offering people 30,000 ruble for 30 days service, maybe you should join up.
> 
> Also, there is a common denomination bettween Taliban, AlQueda and ISIS, care to tell me what that is?
> 
> They are all using Russian Weapon.



You are the Keyboard Warrior and support Ukraine. If Russia ask people from across the Globe to fight for her, I will. 

The common denomination between Taliban, Alqueda, ISIS-Daesh etc., is also founded by US.


----------



## jhungary

Tamerlane said:


> That’s taking it too far. We may be on different sides on this issue, but please don’t throw away your life fighting someone else’s war. Ukraine is a treacherous place and you’ll never figure out who to trust.


Well, I should clarify, I am going to Moldova and then Poland to go see my friend who already fled Ukraine, see what do they need and what can I bring them, that for sure I am going to do, that's why I reserve 2 months time overseas and also have my leave notice on file.

Whether I go across the border to Ukraine, that's I am still deciding, I am not for this war, but then I still have friend in Ukraine, I may go there and see what they need or what can I do for them to get better, I am also carrying a bunch of Uniform and Equipment I had and donating them to the Ukrainian Army. I have enough to equip a whole platoon.

If I am not going, I may still go train some TDF guy inside the Polish Border, as for what I have told my wife, I told her I am seeing some Friend in Moldova and Poland.



Amliunion said:


> You are the Keyboard Warrior and support Ukraine. If Russia ask people from across the Globe to fight for her, I will.
> 
> The common denomination between Taliban, Alqueda, ISIS-Daesh etc., is also founded by US.


Russia already did. Have you not hear what Putin said about Syrian and African? He said "if they want to come here and fight, we should facilitate that."

So, when are you going? Or you are too posh to go?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505615055441772549

After the success of drones in Ukraine...


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505692078545768450


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505699665978744834



Then they will all be killed.


----------



## jhungary

sur said:


> Russia says it’s struck another mercenary base in Ukraine​Russian forces hit a Ukrainian special forces training center early on Sunday, *killing more than 100 local troops and foreign mercenaries*, the Ministry of Defense has said.
> A Ukrainian Special Operations Forces training center* near the town of Ovruch in the northern Zhytomyr *Region, which hosted the mercenaries . . . A week ago, Russia destroyed another mercenary base at the *Yavoriv *range in the western *Lviv *region, saying that up to *180 *. . . after the strike, reports emerged of mercenaries fleeing to neighboring Poland in large numbers. . . .* Russia has warned that it was aware of all the locations of mercenaries on the territory of Ukraine and promised to continue targeting them *_*“without mercy.” *“*All further responsibility for the death of this category of foreign citizens in Ukraine rests solely with the leadership of these countries*,"_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's no word about *Wali *the sniper. Is there any news about his safety?
> 
> 
> 
> An Israeli Jew in essence called Zelensky a liar
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505584296693751811


You probably did not look at all or didn't look hard enough, this is from yesterday, found it with minimum effort.









Is this Canadian sniper alive? The truth is caught up in Ukraine’s ‘fog of war’ — and the Russian propaganda machine


He blogged almost every day before going dark. It’s not yet clear if he’s laying low, or if the Russian rumours of his death are true




www.thestar.com


----------



## Tamerlane

jhungary said:


> Well, I should clarify, I am going to Moldova and then Poland to go see my friend who already fled Ukraine, see what do they need and what can I bring them, that for sure I am going to do, that's why I reserve 2 months time overseas and also have my leave notice on file.
> 
> Whether I go across the border to Ukraine, that's I am still deciding, I am not for this war, but then I still have friend in Ukraine, I may go there and see what they need or what can I do for them to get better, I am also carrying a bunch of Uniform and Equipment I had and donating them to the Ukrainian Army. I have enough to equip a whole platoon.



I'm also pumped up after reading this thread. Seeing all those guys running around with assault rifles and tanks blowing stuff up looks tempting. I might go to the local Brass Pro and buy some camo outfits and go deer hunting. However, getting my legs blown off in Ukraine doesn't sound like fun.



jhungary said:


> Russia already did. Have you not hear what Putin said about Syrian and African? He said "if they want to come here and fight, we should facilitate that."
> 
> So, when are you going? Or you are too posh to go?



If you two meet on opposing sides, you can take a break from shooting each other and have a chat about PDF.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hind and Alligator CAS helicopters in Ukraine


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505701279896588290


----------



## mmr

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Throughout history single men conquer and rape. Europeans and East Asians have very similar Y chromosome but quite different mitochondrial DNA, suggesting single men from the Middle East conquered Europe and East Asia 40,000 years ago, killed native men, raped native women.


Dude this is 2022. Not 1700.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

mmr said:


> Dude this is 2022. Not 1700.



Human nature does not change over hundreds or even thousands of years. Just go to the US and see gang war and rape.


----------



## mmr

khansaheeb said:


> I suppose that is what you call *Free*dom to take what you want.


Zero sympathy for Russian thugs.

If putler hate west so much why every tom and dick from russia with money invest in west. Wonder why don't they invest in china.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Tamerlane said:


> I'm also pumped up after reading this thread. Seeing all those guys running around with assault rifles and tanks blowing stuff up looks tempting. I might go to the local Brass Pro and buy some camo outfits and go deer hunting. However, getting my legs blown off in Ukraine doesn't sound like fun.
> 
> 
> 
> If you two meet on opposing sides, you can take a break from shooting each other and have a chat about PDF.


Well, it's kind of hard to do, I am medically discharged from the US military. I have a severely broken leg from a chopper crash I have sustained in Afghanistan, in short, I can't run. Which mean the chance I would be on the frontline is next to zero.

I am just going to see if my friends are okay, and see what do they need so I can bring something to them, and for those who are still in the fight in Ukraine, I tried to donate the stuff that I have so people don't run around wearing puma shirt and wearing sneaker.

I am not going to go there and fight lol, at best is to train some TDF people. I can do that either in Polish Border or just inside Ukrainian Border. There are camp that are really close to Polish Border (like 2 or 3 miles to Polish border) Russia would not dare to attack......Their CEP is 10-15 mile, they get that close to the border and they are risking to bring the war to NATO.



sur said:


> Could you post the content of what's said in article? Or a summary.
> It's paid content.
> Hoping that you read it before posting the link.



In short, he is in Lviv. He have updated his social media (Not mentioned in the article or at least I dont remember it was mentioned) that said he is "Far" from the base that was bombed on Monday. And ask his follower not to worry and he is safe in Lviv.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## khansaheeb

mmr said:


> Zero sympathy for Russian thugs.
> 
> If putler hate west so much why every tom and dick from russia with money invest in west. Wonder why don't they invest in china.


Putler


----------



## thetutle

Tamerlane said:


> From a Muslim perspective Russia is like Santa Claus compared to dealing with the West. Muslims dealing with the West is like Palestinians dealing with Israel.
> 
> The storm of Islamophobia in the world was created by the Anglo-Zionists, and it didn't just start with 9/11. I've been seeing for over 40 years. I remember living in UK during the time of the Iranian revolution and the Salman Rushdie controversy. British newspapers used to be full of extreme hate for all Muslims. I remember saying to people that it seems like there will be a holocaust of Muslims in Europe. Sure enough, it happened with the genocide of Bosnian Muslims. I remember seeing Bosnian refugees outside the mosque. It was very traumatic.
> 
> The Western hate offensive against Islam has encouraged everyone with a conflict with Muslims everywhere in the world. They can always expect Western help, like Israel, India, Indonesia, Burma etc.
> 
> The Anglo-Zionists are not finished with Muslims yet. I would say that they're at the 50% mark. There's a whole series of Muslim countries that are on the destruction list, like Iran, Pakistan etc, and then they're going to bring down their poodles like the oil sheikhdoms. They won't stop until they've reduced the whole Middle East to a pile of rubble and Israel become the undisputed master.
> 
> Compared to that record, Russia has been mild in its attitude towards Muslims. They've been brutal in Chechnya and Syria, but in both places they were fighting dollar-jihadis supported by the West. Other than that they've been quite benign. I doubt that they have any intention of invading either any other European or Muslim country. That's just a mixture of propaganda and paranoia.
> 
> This war may slow down the Anglo-Zionist crusade against Islam and may provide a window of opportunity for Muslim countries to sort themselves out without Anglo-Zionist threats of destruction.


I see what you are saying. but you can only believe that if you know nothing go world history or Russian history. 

Whenever "anglo-zionists" had conquered muslims inhabited lands. they have given those people at least formal independence. Not. a bad deal for a people completely conquered by he west.

Whenever Russia conquered muslim inhabited lands they exterminate the population and make the land a part of russia. to such an extent that the rest of the muslim world dont even know those were ever muslim lands. It becomes a rumour. a point of historical dispute. 

We have British conquests of UAE, Qatar, Jordan, Iraq etc etc etc. They retain their native population, they have cities with arabic names. If Britian did what Russia did, Qatar would be called New Birmingham, and Baghdad would be called Yorktown. The inhabitants would be blonde and speak English. The emirs of these places would have surnames like Smith and Wilkinson. 
When visitors would come, they would ask about the native inhabitants of these places and the locals would say? oh? we dont know of any, there are no graves here and no monuments to these people, it must have been empty when we arrived. 

This is the situation in Russia today. Cities of sevastpol, Sochi, and countless others on the black sea and inland russia. Lands Larger than the whole Middle East. along the largest most fertile plains of europe. All Russian, always Russian, no muslims graves anywhere, no muslim names denoting its previous inhabitants. 

And you are giving russia a free pass on This because the British gave jews 17,000 square kilometres of land in the middle east (which russia supports and recognises), and wrote some articles deamonising muslims of europe. 

The muslim immigrants in europe could be rounded up and shot in one night and no more than 10% of europe would even protest. Its a miracle that they are even allowed to live there and migrate there. There are also 3 muslim counters in europe. Europe has allowed this. You think UK or Germany cant send some aircraft and troops and destroy Bosna or Albania and send us packing in about 7 days. Come on. 

You rightly criticise the west for its failures, but they have conquered the muslim civilisation in 1918 and destroyed the caliphate and could have wiped the muslims out like they did with the American Indians, or how russia did with its muslims in muslim lands. Muslims have a pretty good deal with the west right now, as a conquered people. Hopefully with a nuclear armed Pakistan and turkey, this civilisation can be revived and completely freed. But that requires a lot of work.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## PakAlp

21st March update. Russians have most major cities surrounded on the East, Kiev will be fully surrounded within weeks.


----------



## sur

jhungary said:


> . . . In short, he is in Lviv. He have updated his social media (Not mentioned in the article or at least I dont remember it was mentioned) that said he is "Far" from the base that was bombed on Monday. And ask his follower not to worry and he is safe in Lviv.



Here's the article's content just in case:
Far from Lviv, article claims.


La Torche et l’Épée is the place Olivier Lavigne-Ortiz went to write about crossing the border into Ukraine as a foreign volunteer fighter, and to share pictures of the weapons he got on the other side.

It means “The torch and the sword,” and for years the online blog and Facebook community has been the container for the former Canadian Forces sniper’s thoughts and observations about his time in conflict zones, where, as he told the Star in a 2016 interview, he views himself in a dual role as both soldier and storyteller.

That is, *until the account went dark this week, a change from his approximately once daily posting since late February*. At the same time, Russian social media accounts started spreading a now-viral rumour that Lavigne-Ortiz has died.


*No official source has yet confirmed if Lavigne-Ortiz is dead or alive. Loved ones have posted online that they fully believe he is still alive*. But he is in a war zone, and the truth remains elusive. Experts, meanwhile, say stories of his supposed death fit Russia’s misinformation playbook and the long history of information warfare.

Known by his 40,000-person Facebook following as “Wali,” Lavigne-Ortiz has fought and documented his time in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and now Ukraine, always painting a picture of glory that comes from taking down enemies, and countering, he says, the images spread by the aggressors in war.

That purpose, and the fame Wali has garnered, may be why Russian troll farms want to spread word of his purported demise.

*On Monday, Wali had shared **a post** on the blog telling his followers not to worry for his safety following a deadly Russian attack.


“I am already far from the base that was hit yesterday,” he wrote, referring to Russian missile strikes near Lviv.* “Those who died probably did not see the Russian soldiers. Such is modern warfare. Still just as dirty, but impersonal.”*


Far from Lviv, he said*, but *he gave no indication of where he was*. That was the last post Wali made before his channel went dark. *As of Friday, he hadn’t made another.*

But less than 24 hours after Wali’s last post, explanations for his silence were going viral on Russian social media networks such as VKontakt.

“Canadian sniper, which propaganda called the ‘deadliest sniper in the world’... killed by Russian special forces in Mariupol 20 minutes after landing,” read one post by the administrator of a Russian nationalist group.

The post was “liked” more than 12,000 times, and would go on to appear on countless other channels.

Wali’s internet following was not so quick to accept this news, which has not been verified by independent news or government sources.

A spokesperson for Global Affairs Canada said it hadn’t been informed of any Canadian volunteer fighters dying in Ukraine.


“Think about it,” one Wali fan said in French in a video he made about the rumours. “How could Wali have been in Mariupol the day after crossing the border into Ukraine? ... Wali is alive.”

A Facebook post by the *Norman Brigade, the group with which Wali said he was travelling, did not confirm whether he was alive or dead*, but said he was not near Mariupol on the day the Russian posts claimed he was killed.

Thomas Holt, a professor in the school of Criminal Justice at Michigan State University who specializes in internet hacking, said that whether or not Wali is still alive, it’s clear why Russia would want to spread the story of his death.

“That’s kind of a classic model of potential psychological operations using information warfare. So by saying that you’ve killed an enemy combatant very quickly ... before he could do anything has the potential to be not only demoralizing for those of Ukraine who might have seen him as a potential asset ... it certainly may affect individuals in Canada who are opposed to perhaps engaging in the conflict itself.”

To Yevgeniy Golovchenko, a University of Copenhagen researcher on social media disinformation, Wali has been swept up in a larger “fog of war” — the barrage of true, twisted, and false information propagated by Russia in its war to sow support among Russians, despondency among Ukrainian forces, and confusion among everyone else.

“If you look at the classical disinformation strategies ... you will almost always go for the stories, narratives that captivate people that capture attention — that are viral. There is no point in writing stories or narratives or a disinformation about something that nobody reads,” Golovchenko said.


“It wouldn’t make sense to make stories about this person if he was not already famous.”

But Wali is famous, and famous for the art of war.

*By March 3, he had arrived in Ukraine, and posted about crossing the border with three other Quebec volunteers and some Britons.* He wrote on his blog that he joined the Norman Brigade, a group of Canadian and British volunteer fighters working together in Ukraine.

His arrival in Ukraine was covered breathlessly by a smattering of international media and other websites that heralded him as a talent capable of single-handedly weakening Russian forces. He is often described as the world’s deadliest sniper, though, given the secrecy with which snipers operate, his exact achievements are difficult to confirm.

He told CBC earlier this month that he’d made the journey with three other former Canadian soldiers and they were greeted with hugs and handshakes when they crossed the border.

“They were so happy to have us,” he told CBC. “It’s like we were friends right away.”

Holt said Wali’s fame certainly contributes to why Russia would want to amplify news of his supposed death. But, he said, the posts about Wali are part of a bigger picture, and a long tradition of spreading information during times of war.


“It is important to note that this is just another tool in the broader suite of information warfare,” Holt said. “In traditional information warfare, going back to the last couple of decades even to World War Two and Vietnam, the use of printed materials in order to demoralize or stabilize the population of an occupied country, or conflict itself, is quite common.”

Russia’s use of disinformation, misinformation and propaganda has been well documented by the international community, especially since the country’s invasion of Crimea in 2014. A U.S. intelligence report released last year described the Russian state being at the centre of a controlled information ecosystem, which includes state media, farming internet trolls and propped-up friendly third party sites.

Ukraine, meanwhile, has not said anything about Wali through its official communications channels.

There are examples of propaganda being used on both sides of the war.

In Russia, state-controlled news outlets have amplified videos apparently showing a Nazi flag captured by Russian forces in Ukraine (Nazism in Ukraine is being used by Russia as justification for the invasion). In Ukraine, government sources spread a story about the capture of the tiny Snake Island by Russian forces, saying a mere 13 soldiers defending the island refused to surrender and therefore were killed (Ukrainian sources later said they may have been captured, not killed).

Holt said the barrage of information out there — some true and some false — makes it all but impossible to verify whether a person like Wali may actually be alive.

After all, Holt said, the smart thing for Wali to do in the circumstance is to stay quiet.


“So in the interim, the smartest thing to probably do is take everything with a grain of salt and check the source. If it is just troll farms (spreading this information) then it’s probably not truthful,” Holt said. “But it’s very hard. I would say, it’s like an informational fog of war where there’s no good information and it’s hard to necessarily get accuracy until third parties, new sources, etc., can validate.”









On a side note, Wali mentions a large number of Brits.
We heard Boris Johnson furious remark when Rus attacked volunteers in Yavoriv.
There must have been British deaths there.


----------



## thetutle

tower9 said:


> When I say that China is the most powerful nation state, I'm not talking about military inventory. The US has had a humongous military budget for decades, China has just recently become equivalently sized as an economy, and even then, is spending a fraction of its budget on the military versus the US.
> 
> What I mean is that China has the most capacity and ability of any country to adapt to extreme challenges and emerge victorious. China has the most educated human resources under its control, its system is disciplined and can orient society in a way that can handle major challenges during periods of chaos that the West simply can't. China is by far the greatest industrial superpower in the world, if it switched its economy to a war time footing, it would quickly surpass America's military inventory within 5 years.
> 
> The West is still in denial about this reality. There is always this notion that as long as the West is hostile to China or if they deny China something, China will be on its way to collapse and will be put back into that little bottle and disappear. That's not going to happen. China has managed to revive as a great power and civilization, and is quickly becoming a developed country with immense resources. Think about a Germany or Japan but 10X bigger. China is here as the world's greatest nation state and will not be going away, the rest of the world will just have to adjust to this reality.


You believe this and still continue to live in the US?


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## 8888888888888

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505550833961910277


The tracks got blown off


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## iiowelo

thetutle said:


> I see what you are saying. but you can only believe that if you know nothing go world history or Russian history.
> 
> Whenever "anglo-zionists" had conquered muslims inhabited lands. they have given those people at least formal independence. Not. a bad deal for a people completely conquered by he west.
> 
> Whenever Russia conquered muslim inhabited lands they exterminate the population and make the land a part of russia. to such an extent that the rest of the muslim world dont even know those were ever muslim lands. It becomes a rumour. a point of historical dispute.
> 
> We have British conquests of UAE, Qatar, Jordan, Iraq etc etc etc. They retain their native population, they have cities with arabic names. If Britian did what Russia did, Qatar would be called New Birmingham, and Baghdad would be called Yorktown. The inhabitants would be blonde and speak English. The emirs of these places would have surnames like Smith and Wilkinson.
> When visitors would come, they would ask about the native inhabitants of these places and the locals would say? oh? we dont know of any, there are no graves here and no monuments to these people, it must have been empty when we arrived.
> 
> This is the situation in Russia today. Cities of sevastpol, Sochi, and countless others on the black sea and inland russia. Lands Larger than the whole Middle East. along the largest most fertile plains of europe. All Russian, always Russian, no muslims graves anywhere, no muslim names denoting its previous inhabitants.
> 
> And you are giving russia a free pass on This because the British gave jews 17,000 square kilometres of land in the middle east (which russia supports and recognises), and wrote some articles deamonising muslims of europe.
> 
> The muslim immigrants in europe could be rounded up and shot in one night and no more than 10% of europe would even protest. Its a miracle that they are even allowed to live there and migrate there. There are also 3 muslim counters in europe. Europe has allowed this. You think UK or Germany cant send some aircraft and troops and destroy Bosna or Albania and send us packing in about 7 days. Come on.
> 
> You rightly criticise the west for its failures, but they have conquered the muslim civilisation in 1918 and destroyed the caliphate and could have wiped the muslims out like they did with the American Indians, or how russia did with its muslims in muslim lands. Muslims have a pretty good deal with the west right now, as a conquered people. Hopefully with a nuclear armed Pakistan and turkey, this civilisation can be revived and completely freed. But that requires a lot of work.




If you think Muslims have received a good deal from the West, then the Bosnians also received a very good deal from the Serbs. What's the big deal?

You talk about Britain, but forget Britain is a tiny country smaller than Pakistan alone. Many Pakistanis like Indians were loyal servants of Britain, even today you can see many British Pakistanis who are more loyal to their Anglo masters than they were to their religion or Ummah although some of them deny this obvious fact for some unknown and inexplicable reason. 

Many Pakistanis served in British Army that defeated the Ottomans, so it was Pakistanis who killed their Turkish brothers which for some reason is ignored by a lot of brainwashed people here. 

The Anglos gave independence to Muslim lands as much as they did to Hindus in India, to European Jews in Palestine or to Africans south of the Sahara in their homelands or South East Asian countries.

After the Suez crisis in 1956, there was no way the Anglos could hold on to their former colonies, so that was that. If anything, the Soviets were a strident anti colonial force, and for that reason alone, many Muslims should be ever so grateful to the Soviets and even the Nazis before the Soviets for it was the Nazis which weakened the British imperialists. The Brits could no longer hold on to their colonies, so they left behind festering sore points or puss like the Jewry in Palestine or Kashmir in India, or Tamil/Sinhalese dispute in Ceylon, Cyprus, Malaya/Singapore, a colonial outpost in Australia, New Zealand, North America and the likes.



thetutle said:


> Your view is totally legitimate. But it can not be in Pakistans interest to have a russia which dominates europe, threatens its muslim neighbours like Azerbaijan, Kazakstan, and all of central Asia. Russias ambition is to take European lands and muslim lands. This can not be in Pakistans interests.
> 
> Its tempting to enjoy the west getting some of its own medicine, I am sure, but the cost of that medicine to muslims in the region and central Asia is very very high.



When Azerbaijan or kazakhstan recognizes Israel, purchases weapons, hosts their spies or remains avowedly secular, then they are conveniently no longer Muslim lands. 

When Russia threatens them, which Russia does not need to do since those countries are in Russian orbit anyway, suddenly they turn into Muslim lands?


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

thetutle said:


> You believe this and still continue to live in the US?


there's no belief involved here. US failed with COVID and China didn't. China has grown to become a larger economy than the entire EU. Soon it will become a larger economy than entire US nominally, already has been done by PPP. it's not stopping. China just built 300 new ICBM silos to defend the economic gains.

In short it would be foolish for anyone to underestimate China or attempt to attack China or Chinese.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## iiowelo

Tamerlane said:


> From a Muslim perspective Russia is like Santa Claus compared to dealing with the West. Muslims dealing with the West is like Palestinians dealing with Israel.
> 
> The storm of Islamophobia in the world was created by the Anglo-Zionists, and it didn't just start with 9/11. I've been seeing for over 40 years. I remember living in UK during the time of the Iranian revolution and the Salman Rushdie controversy. British newspapers used to be full of extreme hate for all Muslims. I remember saying to people that it seems like there will be a holocaust of Muslims in Europe. Sure enough, it happened with the genocide of Bosnian Muslims. I remember seeing Bosnian refugees outside the mosque. It was very traumatic.
> 
> The Western hate offensive against Islam has encouraged everyone with a conflict with Muslims everywhere in the world. They can always expect Western help, like Israel, India, Indonesia, Burma etc.
> 
> The Anglo-Zionists are not finished with Muslims yet. I would say that they're at the 50% mark. There's a whole series of Muslim countries that are on the destruction list, like Iran, Pakistan etc, and then they're going to bring down their poodles like the oil sheikhdoms. They won't stop until they've reduced the whole Middle East to a pile of rubble and Israel become the undisputed master.
> 
> Compared to that record, Russia has been mild in its attitude towards Muslims. They've been brutal in Chechnya and Syria, but in both places they were fighting dollar-jihadis supported by the West. Other than that they've been quite benign. I doubt that they have any intention of invading either any other European or Muslim country. That's just a mixture of propaganda and paranoia.
> 
> This war may slow down the Anglo-Zionist crusade against Islam and may provide a window of opportunity for Muslim countries to sort themselves out without Anglo-Zionist threats of destruction.




I know where you are coming from.

But Russians are no saints. Don't forget a good chunk of Israelis are actually Russians, which is why Putin himself said something to the effect of, he doesn't mind if Israel bombs Palestine. 

Avigdor Lieberman - fanatic radical right wing extremist living it up on stolen Palestinian land was born in Russia, as a fine example of my point. 

Ideally, you would want Russia blowing up the United States, but Russians are too cowardly to do that. The next best thing might be for Russians to be embroiled in conflict in Europe, which if you had asked most Europeans about six months ago, most people would have also laughed off as a ridiculous idea. Not so much anymore.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Tamerlane

thetutle said:


> I see what you are saying. but you can only believe that if you know nothing go world history or Russian history.
> 
> Whenever "anglo-zionists" had conquered muslims inhabited lands. they have given those people at least formal independence. Not. a bad deal for a people completely conquered by he west.
> 
> Whenever Russia conquered muslim inhabited lands they exterminate the population and make the land a part of russia. to such an extent that the rest of the muslim world dont even know those were ever muslim lands. It becomes a rumour. a point of historical dispute.
> 
> We have British conquests of UAE, Qatar, Jordan, Iraq etc etc etc. They retain their native population, they have cities with arabic names. If Britian did what Russia did, Qatar would be called New Birmingham, and Baghdad would be called Yorktown. The inhabitants would be blonde and speak English. The emirs of these places would have surnames like Smith and Wilkinson.
> When visitors would come, they would ask about the native inhabitants of these places and the locals would say? oh? we dont know of any, there are no graves here and no monuments to these people, it must have been empty when we arrived.
> 
> This is the situation in Russia today. Cities of sevastpol, Sochi, and countless others on the black sea and inland russia. Lands Larger than the whole Middle East. along the largest most fertile plains of europe. All Russian, always Russian, no muslims graves anywhere, no muslim names denoting its previous inhabitants.
> 
> And you are giving russia a free pass on This because the British gave jews 17,000 square kilometres of land in the middle east (which russia supports and recognises), and wrote some articles deamonising muslims of europe.
> 
> The muslim immigrants in europe could be rounded up and shot in one night and no more than 10% of europe would even protest. Its a miracle that they are even allowed to live there and migrate there. There are also 3 muslim counters in europe. Europe has allowed this. You think UK or Germany cant send some aircraft and troops and destroy Bosna or Albania and send us packing in about 7 days. Come on.
> 
> You rightly criticise the west for its failures, but they have conquered the muslim civilisation in 1918 and destroyed the caliphate and could have wiped the muslims out like they did with the American Indians, or how russia did with its muslims in muslim lands. Muslims have a pretty good deal with the west right now, as a conquered people. Hopefully with a nuclear armed Pakistan and turkey, this civilisation can be revived and completely freed. But that requires a lot of work.



That's a very thoughtful and good analysis. I guess in the past Russia did commit genocide against Muslims and totally exterminated any traces of them. So did the Spanish. When the Crusaders occupied Jerusalem they killed all the Muslims and Jews. 

In contrast, when Muslims were powerful they didn't do that to Christians. There've always been ancient Christian communities in Palestine, Egypt. Iraq and other places. The Ottomans ruled Eastern Europe for centuries and never even bothered converting them to Islam, let alone killing them. The same thing happened in Muslim India, where even after 600 to 800 years of rule they never bothered converting Hindus to Islam. Only a small percentage.

Going forward, the current problem with Muslims is a lack of a leading country. In Samuel Huntington's book "Clash of Civilizations" he notes that all civilizations have a central country, e.g. USA for the West, China for the Chinese civilization etc., but Muslims don't have any central state. Once the Ottoman Empire fell there's been no central power for Muslims and they became a bunch of caged squawking chickens

Any attempt to create one will be attacked, so it's going to be difficult to create something. However, I believe there might be a small window of opportunity in the next few years to try to set something up.


----------



## jhungary

sur said:


> Here's the article's content just in case:
> Far from Lviv, article claims.
> 
> 
> La Torche et l’Épée is the place Olivier Lavigne-Ortiz went to write about crossing the border into Ukraine as a foreign volunteer fighter, and to share pictures of the weapons he got on the other side.
> 
> It means “The torch and the sword,” and for years the online blog and Facebook community has been the container for the former Canadian Forces sniper’s thoughts and observations about his time in conflict zones, where, as he told the Star in a 2016 interview, he views himself in a dual role as both soldier and storyteller.
> 
> That is, *until the account went dark this week, a change from his approximately once daily posting since late February*. At the same time, Russian social media accounts started spreading a now-viral rumour that Lavigne-Ortiz has died.
> 
> 
> *No official source has yet confirmed if Lavigne-Ortiz is dead or alive. Loved ones have posted online that they fully believe he is still alive*. But he is in a war zone, and the truth remains elusive. Experts, meanwhile, say stories of his supposed death fit Russia’s misinformation playbook and the long history of information warfare.
> 
> Known by his 40,000-person Facebook following as “Wali,” Lavigne-Ortiz has fought and documented his time in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and now Ukraine, always painting a picture of glory that comes from taking down enemies, and countering, he says, the images spread by the aggressors in war.
> 
> That purpose, and the fame Wali has garnered, may be why Russian troll farms want to spread word of his purported demise.
> 
> *On Monday, Wali had shared **a post** on the blog telling his followers not to worry for his safety following a deadly Russian attack.
> 
> 
> “I am already far from the base that was hit yesterday,” he wrote, referring to Russian missile strikes near Lviv.* “Those who died probably did not see the Russian soldiers. Such is modern warfare. Still just as dirty, but impersonal.”*
> 
> 
> Far from Lviv, he said*, but *he gave no indication of where he was*. That was the last post Wali made before his channel went dark. *As of Friday, he hadn’t made another.*
> 
> But less than 24 hours after Wali’s last post, explanations for his silence were going viral on Russian social media networks such as VKontakt.
> 
> “Canadian sniper, which propaganda called the ‘deadliest sniper in the world’... killed by Russian special forces in Mariupol 20 minutes after landing,” read one post by the administrator of a Russian nationalist group.
> 
> The post was “liked” more than 12,000 times, and would go on to appear on countless other channels.
> 
> Wali’s internet following was not so quick to accept this news, which has not been verified by independent news or government sources.
> 
> A spokesperson for Global Affairs Canada said it hadn’t been informed of any Canadian volunteer fighters dying in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> “Think about it,” one Wali fan said in French in a video he made about the rumours. “How could Wali have been in Mariupol the day after crossing the border into Ukraine? ... Wali is alive.”
> 
> A Facebook post by the *Norman Brigade, the group with which Wali said he was travelling, did not confirm whether he was alive or dead*, but said he was not near Mariupol on the day the Russian posts claimed he was killed.
> 
> Thomas Holt, a professor in the school of Criminal Justice at Michigan State University who specializes in internet hacking, said that whether or not Wali is still alive, it’s clear why Russia would want to spread the story of his death.
> 
> “That’s kind of a classic model of potential psychological operations using information warfare. So by saying that you’ve killed an enemy combatant very quickly ... before he could do anything has the potential to be not only demoralizing for those of Ukraine who might have seen him as a potential asset ... it certainly may affect individuals in Canada who are opposed to perhaps engaging in the conflict itself.”
> 
> To Yevgeniy Golovchenko, a University of Copenhagen researcher on social media disinformation, Wali has been swept up in a larger “fog of war” — the barrage of true, twisted, and false information propagated by Russia in its war to sow support among Russians, despondency among Ukrainian forces, and confusion among everyone else.
> 
> “If you look at the classical disinformation strategies ... you will almost always go for the stories, narratives that captivate people that capture attention — that are viral. There is no point in writing stories or narratives or a disinformation about something that nobody reads,” Golovchenko said.
> 
> 
> “It wouldn’t make sense to make stories about this person if he was not already famous.”
> 
> But Wali is famous, and famous for the art of war.
> 
> *By March 3, he had arrived in Ukraine, and posted about crossing the border with three other Quebec volunteers and some Britons.* He wrote on his blog that he joined the Norman Brigade, a group of Canadian and British volunteer fighters working together in Ukraine.
> 
> His arrival in Ukraine was covered breathlessly by a smattering of international media and other websites that heralded him as a talent capable of single-handedly weakening Russian forces. He is often described as the world’s deadliest sniper, though, given the secrecy with which snipers operate, his exact achievements are difficult to confirm.
> 
> He told CBC earlier this month that he’d made the journey with three other former Canadian soldiers and they were greeted with hugs and handshakes when they crossed the border.
> 
> “They were so happy to have us,” he told CBC. “It’s like we were friends right away.”
> 
> Holt said Wali’s fame certainly contributes to why Russia would want to amplify news of his supposed death. But, he said, the posts about Wali are part of a bigger picture, and a long tradition of spreading information during times of war.
> 
> 
> “It is important to note that this is just another tool in the broader suite of information warfare,” Holt said. “In traditional information warfare, going back to the last couple of decades even to World War Two and Vietnam, the use of printed materials in order to demoralize or stabilize the population of an occupied country, or conflict itself, is quite common.”
> 
> Russia’s use of disinformation, misinformation and propaganda has been well documented by the international community, especially since the country’s invasion of Crimea in 2014. A U.S. intelligence report released last year described the Russian state being at the centre of a controlled information ecosystem, which includes state media, farming internet trolls and propped-up friendly third party sites.
> 
> Ukraine, meanwhile, has not said anything about Wali through its official communications channels.
> 
> There are examples of propaganda being used on both sides of the war.
> 
> In Russia, state-controlled news outlets have amplified videos apparently showing a Nazi flag captured by Russian forces in Ukraine (Nazism in Ukraine is being used by Russia as justification for the invasion). In Ukraine, government sources spread a story about the capture of the tiny Snake Island by Russian forces, saying a mere 13 soldiers defending the island refused to surrender and therefore were killed (Ukrainian sources later said they may have been captured, not killed).
> 
> Holt said the barrage of information out there — some true and some false — makes it all but impossible to verify whether a person like Wali may actually be alive.
> 
> After all, Holt said, the smart thing for Wali to do in the circumstance is to stay quiet.
> 
> 
> “So in the interim, the smartest thing to probably do is take everything with a grain of salt and check the source. If it is just troll farms (spreading this information) then it’s probably not truthful,” Holt said. “But it’s very hard. I would say, it’s like an informational fog of war where there’s no good information and it’s hard to necessarily get accuracy until third parties, new sources, etc., can validate.”
> 
> 
> View attachment 825869


I don't understand, are you just posting the article or you are disputing what I wrote on the summary?

Because that's exactly what I said in the summary there, I just didn't quote the entire article.


----------



## iiowelo

Tamerlane said:


> That's a very thoughtful and good analysis. I guess in the past Russia did commit genocide against Muslims and totally exterminated any traces of them. So did the Spanish. When the Crusaders occupied Jerusalem they killed all the Muslims and Jews.
> 
> In contrast, when Muslims were powerful they didn't do that to Christians. There've always been ancient Christian communities in Palestine, Egypt. Iraq and other places. The Ottomans ruled Eastern Europe for centuries and never even bothered converting them to Islam, let alone killing them. The same thing happened in Muslim India, where even after 600 to 800 years of rule they never bothered converting Hindus to Islam. Only a small percentage.
> 
> Going forward, the current problem with Muslims is a lack of a leading country. In Samuel Huntington's book "Clash of Civilizations" he notes that all civilizations have a central country, e.g. USA for the West, China for the Chinese civilization etc., but Muslims don't have any central state. Once the Ottoman Empire fell there's been no central power for Muslims and they became a bunch of caged squawking chickens
> 
> Any attempt to create one will be attacked, so it's going to be difficult to create something. However, I believe there might be a small window of opportunity in the next few years to try to set something up.



The problem is population or lack of it. 

You can see it in Europe. There is no big country or big enough country. Same goes for Muslim countries. 

You can not take tiny or medium sized middle Eastern countries and pit them against giants like Soviet Union, China, Americans or Indians even. 

They can only be attacked and destroyed if they are tiny like Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Palestine. The entire contiguous Muslim world incl middle east north africa central asia balkans *combined* has a lower population than India. 

Just one Hindu country.


You are wrong about China. 

There are no other Chinese countries. 

China is the civilization. 

There is no more the Roman Empire. 

You can say Americans have taken up the mantle and lead the renewed Roman Empire.

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## jhungary

5th General now Confirmed killed. That's 5 in less than 4 weeks









Ukraine Confirms Fifth Russian General Has Been Killed


Photo Illustration by Luis G. Rendon/The Daily Beast/TwitterThe Ukrainian military claimed to have killed yet another Russian general, this time Lieutenant-General Andrei Mordvichev, making him the fifth to die so far in the conflict. Mordvichev, who led the 8th General Army of the Southern...




www.yahoo.com





By the way, for those who are interested, US lost 1 general for the entire 20 years campaign in Afghanistan









Harold J. Greene - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





And that is from a Green on Blue job when a ANA open up on the base because he was denied leave from Eid

The last general killed before Greene is Maj. Gen. John A.B. Dillard Jr

Killed on May 12, 1970. In Central Highland, Vietnam.

And six US general officer killed during 10 years of Vietnam War



sur said:


> Just posting the article!
> For anyone who may be interested in reading on this Wali's topic.


fair enough


----------



## thetutle

jamal18 said:


> Apart from Chechnya, the Russians are not in conflict with muslims. The West, owned by the Zionists, have destroyed muslim countries. Nato has pushed to far, and Russia's pateince has ended.


You cant be in conflict with someone when you take their land, kill the people, erase any trace that they existed. There is no conflict there. Perhaps you are suggesting that the west deal with muslims the same way Russia has?


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505628897861419008
Mariupol is majority Russian speaking

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## Tamerlane

iiowelo said:


> The problem is population or lack of it.
> 
> You can see it in Europe. There is no big country or big enough country. Same goes for Muslim countries.
> 
> You can not take tiny or medium sized middle Eastern countries and pit them against giants like Soviet Union, China, Americans or Indians even.
> 
> They can only be attacked and destroyed if they are tiny like Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Palestine. The entire contiguous Muslim world incl middle east north africa central asia balkans *combined* has a lower population than India.
> 
> Just one Hindu country.
> 
> 
> You are wrong about China.
> 
> There are no other Chinese countries.
> 
> China is the civilization.
> 
> There is no more the Roman Empire.
> 
> You can say Americans have taken up the mantle and lead the renewed Roman Empire.



Regarding civilizations, I was referring to Samuel Huntington's book "Clash of Civilizations." He divides the world into nine civilizations. You don't have to agree with him, but for purposes of discussion it works fine. The Chinese civilization includes, China, Taiwan, Singapore and all the Chinese diaspora in various countries. 

The book has become outdated and things have been changing, but the fact remains that Muslims don't have a strong country to lead them.















Clash of Civilizations - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## FairAndUnbiased

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505670818327674882
Meanwhile here's mainstream media:

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505729142062518272


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## thetutle

Wood said:


> Very curious about why Russians have not been able to shoot down these slow moving drones. Surely, they would have the tech to block them. But every other day we see successful strikes with only negligible news about the drones being shot down.
> 
> Any theories are welcome!


These drones are easy to shoot and very visible on Russian radars. Russia shoots down 50 per week of this 3 day operation. There is noting to worry about with these drones. Russia should not even think about them.

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## thetutle

iiowelo said:


> If you think Muslims have received a good deal from the West, then the Bosnians also received a very good deal from the Serbs. What's the big deal?


Bosnians received a very good deal from the west. We have a country in europe. something that not even the jews with all their money and power could do. 

We also got a good deal from serbs. They recognised us, they have a population that has to live in our country. We have normal relations. This is a good deal. Maybe better than we deserve considering how idiotic and naive some of our population is. 

Yes they genocided us. But we kept them as a little more than slaves for 350 years. We helped the Austrians destroy them and helped the nazis do genocide on them. So we don't expect any love. We get more love than we deserve I would say. 



iiowelo said:


> Many Pakistanis served in British Army that defeated the Ottomans, so it was Pakistanis who killed their Turkish brothers which for some reason is ignored by a lot of brainwashed people here.



They we colonial subjects. They had little choice.


iiowelo said:


> The Anglos gave independence to Muslim lands as much as they did to Hindus in India, to European Jews in Palestine or to Africans south of the Sahara in their homelands or South East Asian countries.


yes, exactly. 


iiowelo said:


> After the Suez crisis in 1956, there was no way the Anglos could hold on to their former colonies, so that was that. If anything, the Soviets were a strident anti colonial force, and for that reason alone, many Muslims should be ever so grateful to the Soviets and even the Nazis before the Soviets for it was the Nazis which weakened the British imperialists. The Brits could no longer hold on to their colonies, so they left behind festering sore points or puss like the Jewry in Palestine or Kashmir in India, or Tamil/Sinhalese dispute in Ceylon, Cyprus, Malaya/Singapore, a colonial outpost in Australia, New Zealand, North America and the likes.


yes, pretty much. But also America did not allow them to remain a colonial power. 


iiowelo said:


> When Azerbaijan or kazakhstan recognizes Israel, purchases weapons, hosts their spies or remains avowedly secular, then they are conveniently no longer Muslim lands.


Azerbaijan recognising Israel and trading with them is no different than Pakistan or Saudi recognising Russia and trading with russia. Except that Israel has stolen much less land from muslim and killed infinitely less muslims than russia.



FairAndUnbiased said:


> there's no belief involved here. US failed with COVID and China didn't. China has grown to become a larger economy than the entire EU. Soon it will become a larger economy than entire US nominally, already has been done by PPP. it's not stopping. China just built 300 new ICBM silos to defend the economic gains.
> 
> In short it would be foolish for anyone to underestimate China or attempt to attack China or Chinese.


Please dont let anyone stop you from returning to china. Enjoy their wealth riches and power.


----------



## tower9

thetutle said:


> You believe this and still continue to live in the US?



I was born here. My roots are here and all of my network is here. Not to mention my wife is multi-generational American. 

However, the past few years of non stop vile anti-China bashing coupled with seeing how society here is breaking down has made me see some uncomfortable truths. 

With that said, the last couple years have made me consider leaving this country for the first time and I am already at the planning stages. I don't want to be a target of hate and I honestly have to watch my back every time I go out, especially in urban areas, because the crime and law and order is out of control.

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## thetutle

Tamerlane said:


> That's a very thoughtful and good analysis. I guess in the past Russia did commit genocide against Muslims and totally exterminated any traces of them. So did the Spanish. When the Crusaders occupied Jerusalem they killed all the Muslims and Jews.
> 
> In contrast, when Muslims were powerful they didn't do that to Christians. There've always been ancient Christian communities in Palestine, Egypt. Iraq and other places. The Ottomans ruled Eastern Europe for centuries and never even bothered converting them to Islam, let alone killing them. The same thing happened in Muslim India, where even after 600 to 800 years of rule they never bothered converting Hindus to Islam. Only a small percentage.
> 
> Going forward, the current problem with Muslims is a lack of a leading country. In Samuel Huntington's book "Clash of Civilizations" he notes that all civilizations have a central country, e.g. USA for the West, China for the Chinese civilization etc., but Muslims don't have any central state. Once the Ottoman Empire fell there's been no central power for Muslims and they became a bunch of caged squawking chickens
> 
> Any attempt to create one will be attacked, so it's going to be difficult to create something. However, I believe there might be a small window of opportunity in the next few years to try to set something up.


Turkey teamed up with Pakistan is the only hope I see. Both democracies. one has nukes, and the other needs nukes desperately. But Pakistan has to improve its economy and standard of living. You cant lead with those GDP figures. I dont know what need to be done for this to happen. All the ones I meet seem clever and educated. Why is there such low GDP figures?



tower9 said:


> With that said, the last couple years have made me consider leaving this country for the first time and I am already at the planning stages. I don't want to be a target of hate and I honestly have to watch my back every time I go out, especially in urban areas, because the crime and law and order is out of control.


A good idea. The sooner the better.

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## Type59

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505628897861419008
> Mariupol is majority Russian speaking



Watch this sky news analysis. If accurate, it means many Ukrainian units entrenched themselves in Maripul from mechanised infantry, marines and Azov forces. The capturing of the city means thousands of well trained soldiers will be lost.

Time will tell, if Ukrainian decision to stand and fight in Maripul was wise. They tied down alot of Russian forces, but at expense of losing well trained formations.

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## thetutle

tower9 said:


> You can't really compare Russia's Chechnya war or China's Xinjiang policies to the history of Western imperialism in the Muslim world. For Russia and China, those are primarily secessionist conflicts and did not represent a broad war against Islam or the Muslim world. They are also relatively small, domestic conflicts.
> 
> The West has been rampaging through the Muslim world for a century using its overwhelmingly powerful global media to dehumanize Muslims, justify the occupation of Palestine, legitimize the murder of Muslims and the subordination of Muslim countries. There really is no comparison.


Should the west just annex muslim countries and make the conflict a secessionist one? Like China and russia did. 

The only reason why there is an occupation of Palestinians is because Palestinians still exist. Russia would solve that very quickly like they did with Circassians. There is no more Circassian occupation. Russia eliminated them.


----------



## Tamerlane

thetutle said:


> Turkey teamed up with Pakistan is the only hope I see. Both democracies. one has nukes, and the other needs nukes desperately. But Pakistan has to improve its economy and standard of living. You cant lead with those GDP figures. I dont know what need to be done for this to happen. All the ones I meet seem clever and educated. Why is there such low GDP figures?
> 
> 
> A good idea. The sooner the better.



The worst corrupt politicians in the world. The generals try to maintain their cozy lifestyle by maintaining the status quo, which means keeping horrendously vile criminals in power in a fake facade of democracy. 

If Pakistan had good government it would have been a rich country today.


----------



## tower9

thetutle said:


> Should the west just annex muslim countries and make the conflict a secessionist one? Like China and russia did.
> 
> The only reason why there is an occupation of Palestinians is because Palestinians still exist. Russia would solve that very quickly like they did with Circassians. There is no more Circassian occupation. Russia eliminated them.



Well, we all know what the Anglo Colonial states did with its native population.

I am sorry, but I don't recall when was the last time I had dinner at Red Lobster seated next to a Navajo family.

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## iiowelo

Tamerlane said:


> From a Muslim perspective Russia is like Santa Claus compared to dealing with the West. Muslims dealing with the West is like Palestinians dealing with Israel.
> 
> The storm of Islamophobia in the world was created by the Anglo-Zionists, and it didn't just start with 9/11. I've been seeing for over 40 years. I remember living in UK during the time of the Iranian revolution and the Salman Rushdie controversy. British newspapers used to be full of extreme hate for all Muslims. I remember saying to people that it seems like there will be a holocaust of Muslims in Europe. Sure enough, it happened with the genocide of Bosnian Muslims. I remember seeing Bosnian refugees outside the mosque. It was very traumatic.
> 
> The Western hate offensive against Islam has encouraged everyone with a conflict with Muslims everywhere in the world. They can always expect Western help, like Israel, India, Indonesia, Burma etc.
> 
> The Anglo-Zionists are not finished with Muslims yet. I would say that they're at the 50% mark. There's a whole series of Muslim countries that are on the destruction list, like Iran, Pakistan etc, and then they're going to bring down their poodles like the oil sheikhdoms. They won't stop until they've reduced the whole Middle East to a pile of rubble and Israel become the undisputed master.
> 
> Compared to that record, Russia has been mild in its attitude towards Muslims. They've been brutal in Chechnya and Syria, but in both places they were fighting dollar-jihadis supported by the West. Other than that they've been quite benign. I doubt that they have any intention of invading either any other European or Muslim country. That's just a mixture of propaganda and paranoia.
> 
> This war may slow down the Anglo-Zionist crusade against Islam and may provide a window of opportunity for Muslim countries to sort themselves out without Anglo-Zionist threats of destruction.



You forgot the Crusades. 

European Christian Crusaders, long before the Industrial Revolution, could just mow the Middle Eastern riff raff starting with Turkey, moving on ward to Syria ending in Palestine and creating a Crusader State lasting close to a century. 

Think about it. 

It was Europeans who unleashed their anger on Jews and dumped their Jewish problem on Palestinians. 

Let's think about that for a moment. 

It seems clear to me you people are not suited for warfare and not suited for any intellectually heavy activities. You are closer to Africa and this is why IQ level, work ethic, brains, intellect, inventiveness may be closer to that of Africans or at best Indians if you are a Pakistani. 

This explains why more than 2000 years ago Romans could reach all over the Middle East and conquer places as far away as London and Yemen. 

That happened long before Industrial Revolution.

The Chinese have an excuse ready. They were never dominated by Europeans before Industrial Revolution. Never, ever. In history.

The same can't be said of the middle East balkans or North Africa. They were always ruled and repeatedly conquered by Europeans long before Industrial Revolution. Romans and Greeks for a start laid waste to Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Anatolia, Iran. Pakistan and afghanistan were also captured by Greeks. 

I think there may be some truth to it. Genetically inferior civilizations clustering closer to Indians or Africans are predisposed to being conquered by superior civilizations with greater warlike characteristics and greater propensity to dispense violence in a systematic manner.



thetutle said:


> Turkey teamed up with Pakistan is the only hope I see. Both democracies. one has nukes, and the other needs nukes desperately. But Pakistan has to improve its economy and standard of living. You cant lead with those GDP figures. I dont know what need to be done for this to happen. All the ones I meet seem clever and educated. Why is there such low GDP figures?
> 
> 
> A good idea. The sooner the better.



What is this perverse obsession with GDP?

Indonesia or Mexico with their GDP are they stronger than Pakistan or North Korea? 

How about weaker countries like Iran or Turkey? Are they weaker than Indonesia or Mexico?

Why is this perverse obsession with GDP widespread? 

What is Russian GDP? What is Japanese GDP?

Yet Japan is a compliant vassal of the Americans for more than 70 years now. Even North koreans have got more backbone.


----------



## thetutle

tower9 said:


> Well, we all know what the Anglo Colonial states did with its native population.
> 
> I am sorry, but I don't recall when was the last time I had dinner at Red Lobster seated next to a Navajo family.


Exactly. Thats why colonised muslims got a great deal so far. The "last of the mohicans" could easily be a film called "the last of the Iraqis" (insert any group UK/west colonised).


----------



## tower9

thetutle said:


> Exactly. Thats why colonised muslims got a great deal so far. The "last of the mohicans" could easily be a film called "the last of the Iraqis" (insert any group UK/west colonised).



Considering how much of the Middle East has been bombed to shit and kids orphaned or murdered, I don't know how you can say they got a great deal with a straight face.

Also, the Brits didn't have the population to genocide the Middle East. If they could've, they would've. Looking at the Americas and Australia, that is evident.

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## Tamerlane

iiowelo said:


> You forgot the Crusades.
> 
> European Christian Crusaders, long before the Industrial Revolution, could just mow the Middle Eastern riff raff starting with Turkey, moving on ward to Syria ending in Palestine and creating a Crusader State lasting close to a century.
> 
> Think about it.
> 
> It was Europeans who unleashed their anger on Jews and dumped their Jewish problem on Palestinians.
> 
> Let's think about that for a moment.
> 
> It seems clear to me you people are not suited for warfare and not suited for any intellectually heavy activities. You are closer to Africa and this is why IQ level, work ethic, brains, intellect, inventiveness may be closer to that of Africans or at best Indians if you are a Pakistani.
> 
> This explains why more than 2000 years ago Romans could reach all over the Middle East and conquer places as far away as London and Yemen.
> 
> That happened long before Industrial Revolution.
> 
> The Chinese have an excuse ready. They were never dominated by Europeans before Industrial Revolution. Never, ever. In history.
> 
> The same can't be said of the middle East balkans or North Africa. They were always ruled and repeatedly conquered by Europeans long before Industrial Revolution. Romans and Greeks for a start laid waste to Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Anatolia, Iran. Pakistan and afghanistan were also captured by Greeks.
> 
> I think there may be some truth to it. Genetically inferior civilizations clustering closer to Indians or Africans are predisposed to being conquered by superior civilizations with greater warlike characteristics and greater propensity to dispense violence in a systematic manner.



What you say is very harsh, but it may be the bitter truth. I see a revival of Islam only based on large numbers of Europeans becoming Muslim in the future.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

iiowelo said:


> This explains why more than 2000 years ago Romans could reach all over the Middle East and conquer places as far away as London and Yemen.
> 
> That happened long before Industrial Revolution.
> 
> The Chinese have an excuse ready. They were never dominated by Europeans before Industrial Revolution. Never, ever. In history.
> 
> The same can't be said of the middle East balkans or North Africa. They were always ruled and repeatedly conquered by Europeans long before Industrial Revolution. Romans and Greeks for a start laid waste to Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Anatolia, Iran. Pakistan and afghanistan were also captured by Greeks.


Chinese don't view ourselves as being worse than Europeans even when we were dirt poor. During the Ming Dynasty we defeated Portuguese and Dutch. During the Qing Dynasty at our weakest, we defeated Russians and French. In 1950 we defeated the entire UN expeditionary forces.

We've already proven ourselves so we don't need any excuses. We were weak temporarily due to the industrial revolution then getting stabbed in the back by Japan twice but now we're back.

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## iiowelo

tower9 said:


> Considering how much of the Middle East has been bombed to shit and kids orphaned or murdered, I don't know how you can say they got a great deal with a straight face.
> 
> Also, the Brits didn't have the population to genocide the Middle East. If they could've, they would've. Looking at the Americas and Australia, that is evident.



He forgets/ignores that it was Pakistanis and other colonial troops like Indians who killed Turks in the Middle East. Without their colonial troops, Britain is a country smaller than Pakistan.

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## 8888888888888

jhungary said:


> PM blocks aluminium exports to Russia​
> 
> 
> PM blocks aluminium exports to Russia
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, this is going to go down badly, Australia is the leading world producer of Bauxite (Uncut Aluminium/Alunminum ore) and Russia is net importer
> 
> That goes into weapon making (mostly with aircraft and missile) and window to even cans......Soon, they will need to build those SU-35 with steel.......
> 
> and they can't ask China for help with this, because China also import Bauxite from Australia......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The World's Leading Bauxite Producing Countries
> 
> 
> Australia is the world's leading producer of bauxite, an aluminium ore that is used as the primary source of the metal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldatlas.com


Vietnam also produces it

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## thetutle

Wood said:


> Even so, I wonder why Russians are unable to jam them to protect their convoys. Now it seems like every armour unit should have some anti drone tech.


The Russians are wondering the same thing. Surely its not that hard to shoot down a drone.

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## iiowelo

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Chinese don't view ourselves as being worse than Europeans even when we were dirt poor. During the Ming Dynasty we defeated Portuguese and Dutch. During the Qing Dynasty at our weakest, we defeated Russians and French. In 1950 we defeated the entire UN expeditionary forces.
> 
> We've already proven ourselves so we don't need any excuses.



Hmmm...what was the whining about Century of Humiliation again if you don't view yourselves as inferior? What has eye straigtening surgery, hair colouring and other cultural practices in East Asia if not inferiority complex manifested in real life?

I don't need to list what the eight nation alliance did to China on your home soil. 

These are all well known facts. Trying to "save face" a distinct cultural trait of the Chinese won't change reality. Let's debate based on facts rather than emotions. If you are better than Indians, I acknowledge that. 

If you were brutally conquered by Europeans, I dont see why you should deny that.


----------



## jhungary

8888888888888 said:


> Vietnam also produces it


Vietnam does not produce enough Bauxite, Vietnam production not even top 10.

In fact, China also produce it and it is the second biggest ore production in the world, after Australia. China still import Australian Bauxite

We produce more than China and Brazil (2 and 3) combine. We are a net exporter or Bauxite Ore in the world.....Even China buy from us.....

Unless you are saying China don't use aluminium themselves and send them to Russia, because they can't produce more as this will cut into using Australian Ore, and that is prohibited. meaning we won't sell China any if they do.


----------



## iiowelo

Tamerlane said:


> What you say is very harsh, but it may be the bitter truth. I see a revival of Islam only based on large numbers of Europeans becoming Muslim in the future.



Turks who led your Caliphate for maybe 500 years were largely Europeans, weren't they?

You can also try the Mongols/Chinese? Your new allies. 

I have read how they plowed through Central Asia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, iran, Iraq, Anatolia, Syria with ease like an adult stealing a school child's candy or sth. 

You were never good at warfighting. Closer to Indian or African level.


----------



## 8888888888888

jhungary said:


> Vietnam does not produce enough Bauxite
> 
> In fact, China also produce it and it is the second biggest ore production in the world, after Australia. China still import Australian Bauxite


They have 3.7 million reserves, behind Australia 6 million but opening up more mines will be Ok. China produces 2nd behind Australia despite having only 1 million reserves so this means China imports a lot of ore.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

iiowelo said:


> Hmmm...what was the whining about Century of Humiliation again if you don't view yourselves as inferior? What has eye straigtening surgery, hair colouring and other cultural practices in East Asia if not inferiority complex manifested in real life?
> 
> I don't need to list what the eight nation alliance did to China on your home soil.
> 
> These are all well known facts. Trying to "save face" a distinct cultural trait of the Chinese won't change reality. Let's debate based on facts rather than emotions. If you are better than Indians, I acknowledge that.
> 
> If you were brutally conquered by Europeans, I dont see why you should deny that.


century of humiliation was not a conquest though lol. China was never occupied in entirety or even in a major region.

It was losing some wars, giving up a few islands in unequal treaties and the ability to control taxes and import/export by the Qing Dynasty, which led to societal decay and inability to control opium which led to economic decline. that's it.

it is seen as a huge deal today but compared to the suffering that other countries went through - occupation, colonization, slavery, displacement, genocide - we got off very light until Japan stabbed us. I feel lucky that despite the massive suffering China went through, it could've been far worse if we didn't resist so hard.

eye straightening surgery, hair coloring, etc. are more prevalent in Korea and Japan who were defeated and conquered.


----------



## jhungary

8888888888888 said:


> They have 3.7 million reserves, behind Australia 6 million but opening up more mines will be Ok. China produces 2nd behind Australia despite having only 1 million reserves so this means China imports a lot of ore.


Open another production will take years, it's not like they can do it overnight, or even over next month. That is if Vietnam have money AND willing to open it. And Russia cannot buy them anyway because they can't use SWIFT.


----------



## tower9

iiowelo said:


> Hmmm...what was the whining about Century of Humiliation again if you don't view yourselves as inferior? What has eye straigtening surgery, hair colouring and other cultural practices in East Asia if not inferiority complex manifested in real life?
> 
> I don't need to list what the eight nation alliance did to China on your home soil.
> 
> These are all well known facts. Trying to "save face" a distinct cultural trait of the Chinese won't change reality. Let's debate based on facts rather than emotions. If you are better than Indians, I acknowledge that.
> 
> If you were brutally conquered by Europeans, I dont see why you should deny that.



No, you're right. China was humiliated in the past. Because it was the hegemon in Asia for so long that it became complacent, arrogant and disinterested in the outside world. That was its mistake. 

However, China is probably the only country to have used its humiliation to empower itself. For most of human history, China was a great civilization and powerful empire. Now it is back and it is here to stay. This is just the beginning. 

China has even left the ruins of its former palace destroyed by Europeans in place so its people can be reminded of the past humiliations and to never allow the country to be weak again. Think about that.

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## BloodyPak96

iiowelo said:


> You forgot the Crusades.
> 
> European Christian Crusaders, long before the Industrial Revolution, could just mow the Middle Eastern riff raff starting with Turkey, moving on ward to Syria ending in Palestine and creating a Crusader State lasting close to a century.
> 
> Think about it.
> 
> It was Europeans who unleashed their anger on Jews and dumped their Jewish problem on Palestinians.
> 
> Let's think about that for a moment.
> 
> It seems clear to me you people are not suited for warfare and not suited for any intellectually heavy activities. You are closer to Africa and this is why IQ level, work ethic, brains, intellect, inventiveness may be closer to that of Africans or at best Indians if you are a Pakistani.
> 
> This explains why more than 2000 years ago Romans could reach all over the Middle East and conquer places as far away as London and Yemen.
> 
> That happened long before Industrial Revolution.
> 
> The Chinese have an excuse ready. They were never dominated by Europeans before Industrial Revolution. Never, ever. In history.
> 
> The same can't be said of the middle East balkans or North Africa. They were always ruled and repeatedly conquered by Europeans long before Industrial Revolution. Romans and Greeks for a start laid waste to Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Anatolia, Iran. Pakistan and afghanistan were also captured by Greeks.
> 
> I think there may be some truth to it. Genetically inferior civilizations clustering closer to Indians or Africans are predisposed to being conquered by superior civilizations with greater warlike characteristics and greater propensity to dispense violence in a systematic manner.
> 
> 
> 
> What is this perverse obsession with GDP?
> 
> Indonesia or Mexico with their GDP are they stronger than Pakistan or North Korea?
> 
> How about weaker countries like Iran or Turkey? Are they weaker than Indonesia or Mexico?
> 
> Why is this perverse obsession with GDP widespread?
> 
> What is Russian GDP? What is Japanese GDP?
> 
> Yet Japan is a compliant vassal of the Americans for more than 70 years now. Even North koreans have got more backbone.


Are you talking about the crusaders who repeatedly got their asses handed to them, and in the end eventually wiped out. Not to mention when the mamluks took your french king hostage, put him in house arrest with a eunuch, and made you pay exorbitant amount of money to get him back. I guess we must be inferior though, ruling spain for 800 years, not to mention parts of italy for a good couple centuries. Or when the ottomans ruled eastern europe for 500, not to mention greece. Or when the crimean khanate was using russia and ukraine as a slave farm for 300 years. Guess we must be really inferior then. Plus you're an italian, not a roman. They were a great civilization, while you're a joke.


----------



## jhungary

Type59 said:


> Watch this sky news analysis. If accurate, it means many Ukrainian units entrenched themselves in Maripul from mechanised infantry, marines and Azov forces. The capturing of the city means thousands of well trained soldiers will be lost.
> 
> Time will tell, if Ukrainian decision to stand and fight in Maripul was wise. They tied down alot of Russian forces, but at expense of losing well trained formations.


I actually said the same things that Michael Clark said just yesterday....(Sky News video is today)









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


OK, now I am convinced you are posting from a mental hospital ward. Well, this is is reality in Germany. Most of the germans are mentally sick, doing all what the criminal gov told them. If you do not fit in the corridor the gov provided, then you find yourself in a position like a Jew in the...



defence.pk





Yes, this is highly possible. But I would imagine if and when Mariupol is about to fall, the 3 regiment will try to break out North and join the line of the regular force. So they probably will not be completely lost.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

tower9 said:


> No, you're right. China was humiliated in the past. Because it was the hegemon in Asia for so long that it became complacent, arrogant and disinterested in the outside world. That was its mistake.
> 
> However, China is probably the only country to have used its humiliation to empower itself. For most of human history, China was a great civilization and powerful empire. Now it is back and it is here to stay. This is just the beginning.
> 
> China has even left the ruins of its former palace destroyed by Europeans in place so its people can be reminded of the past humiliations and to never allow the country to be weak again. Think about that.
> 
> View attachment 825882



it was the Europeans who humiliated China first but it was the Japanese that did really lasting damage. even in 1885, 50 into the century of humiliation, China had a major ocean going navy armed with steel battleships and electrical power in the Beiyang Fleet. Chinese forged cannons and guns in Hanyang arsenal and shipbuilders in Jiangnan Shipyards.

Japan destroyed all that. After First Sino Japanese War, the Chinese navy never recovered until 1970's. Fucking 100 years of damage that it caused. Then Second Sino Japanese War in WW2 destroyed all the recovery.

This is why people don't blame Europeans as much as Japan. Europeans humiliated us but Japan kicked us when we were down.

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## Tamerlane

iiowelo said:


> Turks who led your Caliphate for maybe 500 years were largely Europeans, weren't they?
> 
> You can also try the Mongols/Chinese? Your new allies.
> 
> I have read how they plowed through Central Asia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, iran, Iraq, Anatolia, Syria with ease like an adult stealing a school child's candy or sth.
> 
> You were never good at warfighting. Closer to Indian or African level.



I do agree with many things you say. Yes, Turks were by and large Europeans in later years. But when they conquered Constantinople they were Turkic. The mongols ripped through Christian Europe as easily as Islamic lands.

You're pushing the Indian African comparison a bit too far. Muslims didn't conquer vast areas of the world by being pansies. Even today they'll give anyone a hard fight as soldiers. Technological development, however, is lacking.

This was the extent of Muslim conquests.


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## tower9

FairAndUnbiased said:


> it was the Europeans who humiliated China first but it was the Japanese that did really lasting damage. even in 1885, 50 into the century of humiliation, China had a major ocean going navy armed with steel battleships and electrical power in the Beiyang Fleet. Chinese forged cannons and guns in Hanyang arsenal and shipbuilders in Jiangnan Shipyards.
> 
> Japan destroyed all that. After First Sino Japanese War, the Chinese navy never recovered until 1970's. Fucking 100 years of damage that it caused. Then Second Sino Japanese War in WW2 destroyed all the recovery.
> 
> This is why people don't blame Europeans as much as Japan. Europeans humiliated us but Japan kicked us when we were down.



The reality is that betrayal from your own is far worst than aggression from a stranger. The Europeans were strangers who preyed on China when it was weak. Japan learned civilization from China. China was the teacher and Japan was the student. That is why the betrayal hurts.

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## thetutle

OldTwilight said:


> what European countries would do if Russians thread to use their nukes if they don't free up their assets !? after all they don't have any legal basis for this rubbery ...
> 
> well , look like the arrogant westerns don't want to think about this at all !!


Good question. maybe Russia should try it. Hey France we will nuke you if you dont realise or money. 

Why doesn't it say, hey America, every American will have to give half their salary to russia for 10 years or we will nuke you. 

Thats gonna work well?


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## iiowelo

thetutle said:


> Bosnians received a very good deal from the west. We have a country in europe. something that not even the jews with all their money and power could do.
> 
> We also got a good deal from serbs. They recognised us, they have a population that has to live in our country. We have normal relations. This is a good deal. Maybe better than we deserve considering how idiotic and naive some of our population is.
> 
> Yes they genocided us. But we kept them as a little more than slaves for 350 years. We helped the Austrians destroy them and helped the nazis do genocide on them. So we don't expect any love. We get more love than we deserve I would say.
> 
> 
> 
> They we colonial subjects. They had little choice.
> 
> yes, exactly.
> 
> yes, pretty much. But also America did not allow them to remain a colonial power.
> 
> Azerbaijan recognising Israel and trading with them is no different than Pakistan or Saudi recognising Russia and trading with russia. Except that Israel has stolen much less land from muslim and killed infinitely less muslims than russia.




Israel occupies Al Aqsa, the third holiest mosque in Islam. That is the root of the conflict. 

That was why OIc was formed. Because Jews burned/vandalized Al Aqsa mosque. 

I talked about Bosnians getting a good deal from the Serbs. So you have no problem with the way Serbs treated you? 

Russia *never *in its history started a *worldwide* war on Islam. 

Anglo Saxons did after 2000. 

I think @Tamerlane is referring to that. 

Russia mowing through Europe/ West thus benefits most Muslims. Only the Turks who had beef with Russians and Chinese, simultaneously, think differently.

Not surprisingly the same Turkish race is found hob nobbing with Israel. They were the first to reconigze Israel, side with Israel. 

There is not a single Muslim country that refused to recognize Russia. 

Compare that with Israel. No comparison, really. 

If you think about it, if the Turks are eliminated from Earth, nobody in the world will miss them, and certainly not Muslims. Then Russians and Chinese can enjoy great relations with most other Muslims.

But even if Arabs or Middle Easterners are all eliminaetd, a much harder task, since the Anglos started a global total war on Islam including media campaign, dehumanization, destabilization of Muslim countries, sanction, propaganda and invasion, killing, mass murder, beyond the wider middle East too, it is fair to say, Muslims outside the Middle East will also oppose the Anglos. 

On balance, it seems that Russia+China axis will gain more supporters among muslims (except the accursed Turks), but Anglos can find no takers except the same Turks who also hobnob with Israelis. 

Sounds like a fair deal. 

So long as China and Russia complete their mission with the Turks among their midst, they can build up cordial ties with other Muslims and most Muslims will welcome that development.



thetutle said:


> Good question. maybe Russia should try it. Hey France we will nuke you if you dont realise or money.
> 
> Why doesn't it say, hey America, every American will have to give half their salary to russia for 10 years or we will nuke you.
> 
> Thats gonna work well?



I don't believe Russians have the courage to do that. Most Europeans are not fanatics like Middle Easterners. But better at warfare, maybe due to higher IQ and civilization or work ethic or genes. 

The moment you bring out the big guns most Europeans/Americans will go quiet. It's in the genes I'd say.


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## F-22Raptor

Retired Gen. David Petraeus said that it's "not entirely" surprising to see Russian military forces encounter difficulties while invading Ukraine, pointing out that the Russians are "just surprisingly unprofessional," according to CNN.

During an interview with the network last week, Petraeus — a former Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) director who led the 101st Airborne Division during the War in Iraq in 2003 and commanded US forces in Afghanistan — spoke of how the sustained Ukrainian resistance has impeded Moscow's plans for a straightforward occupation.

In pointing out the source of Russia's stumbles, Petraeus noted that Ukrainians have been relentless in their attempts to protect their country.

"There are many reasons for the Russians' abysmal performance. ... [T]hey're fighting against a very determined, quite capable Ukrainian force that is composed of special ops, conventional forces, territorial forces and even private citizens, all of whom are determined not to allow Russia to achieve its objectives," he told the network.

He continued: "They are fighting for their national survival, their homeland and their way of life, and they have the home-field advantage, knowing the terrain and communities."

Petraeus then picked apart the Russian military operation in Ukraine, which has already displaced 6.5 million people throughout the country and led to the departure of another 3.2 million individuals, according to the United Nations migration agency.

"They clearly have very poor standards when it comes to performing basic tactical tasks such as achieving combined arms operations, involving armor, infantry, engineers, artillery and mortars," he said in describing the Russian forces to CNN. "They are very poor at maintaining their vehicles and weapon systems and have abandoned many of them. They are also poor at resupply and logistical tasks."

He emphasized: "We have known for decades that the Soviet system, now the Russian system, has always lacked one of the key strengths of US and Western militaries, which is a strong, professional non-commissioned officer corps."

Petraeus went on to note that Russia's weaponry paled in comparison to the tools utilized by the US military.

"The Russians just have relatively unimpressive equipment, given the investment supposedly made over the past decade or so," he told CNN. "They certainly don't have equipment comparable to what the United States has."

The retired general said that Russia's precision munitions were not accurate, noting that the country didn't cut off Ukrainian airport runways after initially invading the country, similar to what the US did after the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

"We can also see this with the sheer frequency of the Russians hitting civilian infrastructure, like the hospital in Mariupol, other medical facilities and the government center in Kharkiv — unless they truly meant to hit those targets, which obviously would be nothing short of horrific," he told the network.

The former intelligence chief also said that Russia's cyberwarfare capacity this year was "unimpressive," adding that the country has "been unable to take down the Ukrainian command and control system."

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has continued to utilize his social media accounts to communicate with world about the war on the ground in his country.

Petraeus articulated that Russia underestimated what it would take to control Kyiv and replace the Ukrainian government with one that would be loyal to their country.

"In every single area of evaluation, the Russians, starting with their intelligence assessments and understanding of the battlefield and their adversary, and then every aspect of the campaign, all the way down to small unit operations, have proved woefully inadequate," he said.

He added: "Much of the population also hate the Russians, and that hatred is being deepened with every strike on civilian infrastructure. Not only are the Russians not winning hearts and minds, they are alienating hearts and minds."









Petraeus: Russia has been 'surprisingly unprofessional' in Ukraine invasion


"They clearly have very poor standards when it comes to performing basic tactical tasks such as achieving combined arms operations," David Petraeus told CNN.



www.businessinsider.com

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## tower9

iiowelo said:


> Israel occupies Al Aqsa, the third holiest mosque in Islam. That is the root of the conflict.
> 
> That was why OIc was formed. Because Jews burned/vandalized Al Aqsa mosque.
> 
> I talked about Bosnians getting a good deal from the Serbs. So you have no problem with the way Serbs treated you?
> 
> Russia *never *in its history started a *worldwide* war on Islam.
> 
> Anglo Saxons did after 2000.
> 
> I think @Tamerlane is referring to that.
> 
> Russia mowing through Europe/ West thus benefits most Muslims. Only the Turks who had beef with Russians and Chinese, simultaneously, think differently.
> 
> Not surprisingly the same Turkish race is found hob nobbing with Israel. They were the first to reconigze Israel, side with Israel.
> 
> There is not a single Muslim country that refused to recognize Russia.
> 
> Compare that with Israel. No comparison, really.
> 
> If you think about it, if the Turks are eliminated from Earth, nobody in the world will miss them, and certainly not Muslims. Then Russians and Chinese can enjoy great relations with most other Muslims.
> 
> But even if Arabs or Middle Easterners are all eliminaetd, a much harder task, since the Anglos started a global total war on Islam including media campaign, dehumanization, destabilization of Muslim countries, sanction, propaganda and invasion, killing, mass murder, beyond the wider middle East too, it is fair to say, Muslims outside the Middle East will also oppose the Anglos.
> 
> On balance, it seems that Russia+China axis will gain more supporters among muslims (except the accursed Turks), but Anglos can find no takers except the same Turks who also hobnob with Israelis.
> 
> Sounds like a fair deal.
> 
> So long as China and Russia complete their mission with the Turks among their midst, they can build up cordial ties with other Muslims and most Muslims will welcome that development.


Central Asia has always been a battleground of empires. It's just that the different Turkic tribes lived in the expanse of it, so they were always involved with either conquest or being conquered. This has little to do with them being Muslim as this was the case before they were even Muslim. Xinjiang was first incorporated into China in 200 BC. 200 BC. Think about that. During times when China collapsed, it lost control of Xinjiang, and when China was strong, it regained control of it. For a long period, Xinjiang was a Buddhist stronghold. Later on, it became Islamic due to conquest. In the 17th century, the Qing Dynasty regained control of that region and actually did so by getting a lot of the Muslim Turkic tribes on their side fighting against the Mongol Dzungars, who occupied Northern Xinjiang.

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## FairAndUnbiased

tower9 said:


> The reality is that betrayal from your own is far worst than aggression from a stranger. The Europeans were strangers who preyed on China when it was weak. Japan learned civilization from China. China was the teacher and Japan was the student. That is why the betrayal hurts.


yep, and they betrayed China in such a way that it did the maximum possible damage. In fact it can be said that they're still stabbing us diplomatically and politically.

Meanwhile I just don't think about Europeans at the moment. They lost their colonial empires, they have no natural resources, they're behind in software and electronics, their populations and economies are declining.

Global financial crisis exposed that European social democracy produced equal or worse economic results from American neoliberalism. COVID exposed that "European quality" and "fairness" produced equal or worse health results from American individualism. I just can't see Europe as being particularly menacing to China.

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## ChineseTiger1986

tower9 said:


> The reality is that betrayal from your own is far worst than aggression from a stranger. The Europeans were strangers who preyed on China when it was weak. Japan learned civilization from China. China was the teacher and Japan was the student. That is why the betrayal hurts.



In fact, Japan did try to attack China many times in the past.

The first time was the 7th century, when Japan was still a primitive nation compared to the mighty Tang Dynasty. After that battle, they officially became China's student.

The second time was the late 16th century, although the Ming Dynasty was past its prime, still managed to beat Japan's attempt to annex Korea, then eventually used it as an outpost to attack China.

The third time was the late 19th century with a weakened Qing Dynasty, and they succeeded.

That's why their goal always remains the same, to study from China, then to beat China in its own game.

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## tower9

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> In fact, Japan did try to attack China many times in the past.
> 
> The first time was the 7th century, when Japan was still a primitive nation compared to the mighty Tang Dynasty. After that battle, they officially became China's student.
> 
> The second time was the late 16th century, although the Ming Dynasty was past its prime, still managed to beat Japan's attempt to annex Korea, then eventually used it as an outpost to attack China.
> 
> The third time was the late 19th century with a weakened Qing Dynasty, and they succeeded.
> 
> That's why their goal always remains the same, to study from China, then to beat China in its own game.



They tried the same thing with the West and got BTFO. Now they worship the West. 

Goes to show you what their national character is. Always ready to betray you but will kiss your feet after you beat the shit out of them.

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## iiowelo

tower9 said:


> Central Asia has always been a battleground of empires. It's just that the different Turkic tribes lived in the expanse of it, so they were always involved with either conquest or being conquered. This has little to do with them being Muslim as this was the case before they were even Muslim. Xinjiang was first incorporated into China in 200 BC. 200 BC. Think about that. During times when China collapsed, it lost control of Xinjiang, and when China was strong, it regained control of it. For a long period, Xinjiang was a Buddhist stronghold. Later on, it became Islamic due to conquest. In the 17th century, the Qing Dynasty regained control of that region and actually did so by getting a lot of the Muslim Turkic tribes on their side fighting against the Mongol Dzungars, who occupied Northern Xinjiang.



This is entirely off topic but good to know. 

Going by that self proclaimed bosnian person's idea, it's not a bad deal at all if China and Russia wipes off all Turkics from planet Earth so long as they do not declare a total war against Islam, worldwide, like the Anglos have done post 2001.



tower9 said:


> They tried the same thing with the West and got BTFO. Now they worship the West.
> 
> Goes to show you what their national character is. Always ready to betray you but will kiss your feet after you beat the shit out of them.



It also goes to show that an elite East Asian nation like Japan has been enslaved for more than 7 decades by Western civilization. I see it as clear sign of Western superiority.


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## F-22Raptor

This thread has gone way off topic. Chinas humiliation will come, but save it for a future thread. Russias humiliation is here and now.

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## letsrock

iiowelo said:


> I think there may be some truth to it. Genetically inferior civilizations clustering closer to Indians or Africans are predisposed to being conquered by superior civilizations with greater warlike characteristics and greater propensity to dispense violence in a systematic manner.


With exactly similar arguments the nazi went conquering the russians and had their asses handed over. "genetically inferior" - really?


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## iiowelo

Tamerlane said:


> I do agree with many things you say. Yes, Turks were by and large Europeans in later years. But when they conquered Constantinople they were Turkic. The mongols ripped through Christian Europe as easily as Islamic lands.
> 
> You're pushing the Indian African comparison a bit too far. Muslims didn't conquer vast areas of the world by being pansies. Even today they'll give anyone a hard fight as soldiers. Technological development, however, is lacking.
> 
> This was the extent of Muslim conquests.




Where did you get this map from? Muslims never ruled all of Russia. Sorry, not buying it. 

And this was the extent of all Muslim empires - ever - not at a given time. 

Mongols or Brits at a given time had a much wider, larger empire. 

The Mongols only reached Eastern Europe. 

Here is an uncomfortable fact for you. Nobody from the middle east, north africa, central asia, balkans, or south asia, africa, south east asia could *ever* - ever in history - conquer Rome, the current capital of Italy. never. 

Not anybody from East Asia either. 

Africans and Indians are better today at certain aspects. Africans have won approval of Western elites so much so that not getting preferential treatment is equated with racism, which is also a big no-no as approved by Western ruling elites (mostly Jews or aligned). 

Indians are also highly favoured as code-coolies, loyal colonial underlings like during the heydays of the British empire. 

You can't compare that with Muslims who are treated with aggression and unfairness all over the world, even in their own countries, by the same Anglos. 

So I agree with you that Russia plowing through Europe and the West is a good thing for Muslims. The only Muslims who complain are Turkic kind, who abandon Islam at the drop of a hat, drink alcohol aplenty, are avowedly secular, hobnob with Israel and justify it but then create a ruckus when Muslims want to align with Russia and China to confront the West because they are too backward and dumb to do so on their own. 

I mean you don't get to be conquered by Romans 2000 years ago, long before Industrial Revolution, if you are not inferior. At least the Chinese have an excuse that they were never dominated by Europeans before Industrial Revolution. Never, ever, in history. Not in 5000 years of history.



F-22Raptor said:


> This thread has gone way off topic. Chinas humiliation will come, but save it for a future thread. Russias humiliation is here and now.



Russians have performed better than Americans. 

At least we haven't seen a single Russian overhyped stealth aircraft shot down by a very large and well equipped country like Ukraine.

Tiny Serbia shot down much vaunted stealth aircraft F-117 nighthawk. and reports of shooting down B-2 stealth bomber spirit of missouri also circulated. If that did happen, it's understandable why Americans would deny that. 

Getting much vaunted stealth aircraft shot down by Serbia 25 years ago is much worse performance.


----------



## letsrock

thetutle said:


> I see what you are saying. but you can only believe that if you know nothing go world history or Russian history.
> 
> Whenever "anglo-zionists" had conquered muslims inhabited lands. they have given those people at least formal independence. Not. a bad deal for a people completely conquered by he west.
> 
> Whenever Russia conquered muslim inhabited lands they exterminate the population and make the land a part of russia. to such an extent that the rest of the muslim world dont even know those were ever muslim lands. It becomes a rumour. a point of historical dispute.
> 
> *You rightly criticise the west for its failures, but they have conquered the muslim civilisation in 1918 and destroyed the caliphate and could have wiped the muslims out like they did with the American Indians*, or how russia did with its muslims in muslim lands. Muslims have a pretty good deal with the west right now, as a conquered people. Hopefully with a nuclear armed Pakistan and turkey, this civilisation can be revived and completely freed. But that requires a lot of work.


Very interesting - muslims must be grateful because they were not wiped out like American Indians? that is your standard for gratitude ? I suppose thats why you are so sympathtic to nazis because they directly did not kill your ancestors when they could have done so. what logic really.

Soviets indeed absorbed occupied lands because they saw them as equal peoples. infact soviet policy encouraged inter-marriage between russians and other nationalities. No signs of "dogs and indians/blacks/irish" not allowed.

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## FairAndUnbiased

F-22Raptor said:


> This thread has gone way off topic. Chinas humiliation will come, but save it for a future thread. Russias humiliation is here and now.


lol, we'll see who gets humiliated in the end. 

as for now, Russian ultimatum has been rejected.

So... we'll see what happens.


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## thetutle

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Chinese don't view ourselves as being worse than Europeans even when we were dirt poor. During the Ming Dynasty we defeated Portuguese and Dutch. During the Qing Dynasty at our weakest, we defeated Russians and French. In 1950 we defeated the entire UN expeditionary forces.


China defeated the Portuguese and the Dutch. lol. Netehrands one of the smallest countries in europe. lol the whole country is like a city in china. And you managed to defeat them. great job.


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## FairAndUnbiased

letsrock said:


> Very interesting - muslims must be grateful because they were not wiped out like American Indians? that is your standard for gratitude ? I suppose thats why you are so sympathtic to nazis because they directly did not kill your ancestors when they could have done so. what logic really.
> 
> Soviets indeed absorbed occupied lands because they saw them as equal peoples. infact soviet policy encouraged inter-marriage between russians and other nationalities. No signs of "dogs and indians/blacks/irish" not allowed.



Soviets allowed the Baltics to become Soviet citizens instead of the standard treatment at the time: colonial slavery. They allowed Ukrainians like Khrushchev, Brezhnev and Gorbachev to rule the Soviet Union instead of saving the leadership seats for Russians only.

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## Wood

History repeating itself after a century?


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## F-22Raptor

FairAndUnbiased said:


> lol, we'll see who gets humiliated in the end.
> 
> as for now, Russian ultimatum has been rejected.
> 
> So... we'll see what happens.




China has even less military experience than the Russians, and an amphibious invasion of Taiwan will be a nightmare for you. And Taiwan is better equipped than the Ukrainians.

Taiwan is learning a lot from the Ukrainians performance. 

Be patient, Chinas humiliation will come, just as it has for the Russians.


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## tower9

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Soviets allowed the Baltics to become Soviet citizens instead of the standard treatment at the time: colonial slavery. They allowed Ukrainians like Khrushchev, Brezhnev and Gorbachev to rule the Soviet Union instead of saving the leadership seats for Russians only.



That's a huge reminder of how historically intertwined Ukraine is to Russia. In fact, it was historically called Little Russia.


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## FairAndUnbiased

F-22Raptor said:


> China has even less military experience than the Russians, and an amphibious invasion of Taiwan will be a nightmare for you. And Taiwan is better equipped than the Ukrainians.
> 
> Taiwan is learning a lot from the Ukrainians performance.
> 
> Be patient, Chinas humiliation will come, just as it has for the Russians.


lmao we have nothing to prove. China sold weapons to Vietnam like you sold Ukraine and yet unlike Ukraine, there haven't been US soldiers in Vietnam for the past 50 years.

Vietnam hasn't given up 1 inch of territory to the US nor does the US have any political influence in Vietnam, while it's likely Ukraine will lose significant territory to Russia and have significant Russian influence in an independent puppet state.


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## iiowelo

tower9 said:


> No, you're right. China was humiliated in the past. Because it was the hegemon in Asia for so long that it became complacent, arrogant and disinterested in the outside world. That was its mistake.
> 
> However, China is probably the only country to have used its humiliation to empower itself. For most of human history, China was a great civilization and powerful empire. Now it is back and it is here to stay. This is just the beginning.
> 
> China has even left the ruins of its former palace destroyed by Europeans in place so its people can be reminded of the past humiliations and to never allow the country to be weak again. Think about that.
> 
> View attachment 825882



Great to hear you admit the truth. 

You can't be sure of the future. 

You say the Chinese were complacent in the past, what's to say you will not become complacent in the future and decline again?


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## retaxis

iiowelo said:


> I see it as clear sign of Western superiority.


West has been on top for 70years. China has been on top for over 4000years. China + East Asia also has far higher IQ points than west plus West is becoming a demographic nightmare and will turn into minority majority country soon further reducing IQ levels. Your prime was short lived, so sad. In 50 years time when your grandchildren are black and speak nigerian listening to rap and gang banging while East Asians occupy solar system its hard to compare then get it?

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## tower9

iiowelo said:


> Great to hear you admit the truth.
> 
> You can't be sure of the future.
> 
> You say the Chinese were complacent in the past, what's to say you will not become complacent in the future and decline again?



There is no predicting what will happen 200 years from now. But the China of today is the least thing from complacent. It is always awake, hungry for opportunities, building its already enormous strength and biding its time. China is the by far the most competent and vibrant great power today.


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## FairAndUnbiased

iiowelo said:


> Great to hear you admit the truth.
> 
> You can't be sure of the future.
> 
> You say the Chinese were complacent in the past, what's to say you will not become complacent in the future and decline again?


because we're pulling ahead at one of the most critical times in human history.

next 50 years will be nothing like the past 50 years which were a time of plenty compared to the crisis that's coming. last 50 years had so much new resources unleashed like oil, natural gas, solar, etc. meanwhile the next 50 years is going to be one of hardship and decline.

humanity is at an important juncture, next 50 years determines whether our species will spend the rest of our existence in the space age (if we succeed in solving problems) or the medieval age (if we fail to solve problems)

the 50 years after 2020 are what really matter. everything up to now, is just preparing for that. Russia is seizing the opportunity to make the first move. I can't blame them, just feel sorry for civilians.

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## retaxis

F-22Raptor said:


> China has even less military experience than the Russians, and an amphibious invasion of Taiwan will be a nightmare for you. And Taiwan is better equipped than the Ukrainians.
> 
> Taiwan is learning a lot from the Ukrainians performance.
> 
> Be patient, Chinas humiliation will come, just as it has for the Russians.


We are patiently waiting for 2042 when America turns into minority majority country and kowtow to China superior intellect and IQ. generations of lazy hispanic gang banging americans will be no threat to China understand?


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## iiowelo

BloodyPak96 said:


> Are you talking about the crusaders who repeatedly got their asses handed to them, and in the end eventually wiped out. Not to mention when the mamluks took your french king hostage, put him in house arrest with a eunuch, and made you pay exorbitant amount of money to get him back. I guess we must be inferior though, ruling spain for 800 years, not to mention parts of italy for a good couple centuries. Or when the ottomans ruled eastern europe for 500, not to mention greece. Or when the crimean khanate was using russia and ukraine as a slave farm for 300 years. Guess we must be really inferior then. Plus you're an italian, not a roman. They were a great civilization, while you're a joke.



You are a Pakistani. Let's not joke about it. We all know what Pakistan stands for, what it is known for around the world. 

Italy is a developed country, more advanced, powerful, G7 member. EU member. Your Turkish brothers obtained their attack helicopter T-129 from Italian company. LIcense built. 


ALL of Pakistan, Africa, Middle East, North America, Europe was colonized by europeans. Romans colonized all of Middle East, North Africa, Greeks conquered Pakistan, Afghanistan going as far back as 2000 years ago. 

You people could never, ever in history capture Rome. 

Let's get this straight. 

Never in history could you capture Rome, the current capital of Italy.

But all of your countries were captured, conquered, civilized starting way back more than 2000 years ago by Europeans.


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## tower9

FairAndUnbiased said:


> because we're pulling ahead at one of the most critical times in human history.
> 
> next 50 years will be nothing like the past 50 years which were a time of plenty compared to the crisis that's coming. last 50 years had so much new resources unleashed like oil, natural gas, solar, etc. meanwhile the next 50 years is going to be one of hardship and decline.
> 
> humanity is at an important juncture, next 50 years determines whether our species will spend the rest of our existence in the space age (if we succeed in solving problems) or the medieval age (if we fail to solve problems)



The scary part is that China sees what is coming and is preparing. That shows how far its insight and wisdom is compared to many other countries. 

While the EU and the US have no idea what is coming. It's going to be some very tough and scary times coming.

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## iiowelo

FairAndUnbiased said:


> because we're pulling ahead at one of the most critical times in human history.
> 
> next 50 years will be nothing like the past 50 years which were a time of plenty compared to the crisis that's coming. last 50 years had so much new resources unleashed like oil, natural gas, solar, etc. meanwhile the next 50 years is going to be one of hardship and decline.
> 
> humanity is at an important juncture, next 50 years determines whether our species will spend the rest of our existence in the space age (if we succeed in solving problems) or the medieval age (if we fail to solve problems)




These are your predictions. You can keep them to yourselves.



retaxis said:


> We are patiently waiting for 2042 when America turns into minority majority country and kowtow to China superior intellect and IQ. generations of lazy hispanic gang banging americans will be no threat to China understand?



Is that an admission that you can't defeat American majority population in a fair contest? That you need demographic change in American territory in order to surpass them? 

That you need your enemy to fumble on its own rather than you making the enemy surrender through the might of China?

Seems like you admit Western civilization is inherently superior to Chinese/Mongolian or East Asian.

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## FairAndUnbiased

iiowelo said:


> These are your predictions. You can keep them to yourselves.


you asked what if Chinese become complacent. 

I gave you the answer - we won't because we're in crisis mode, independent of what other countries do. Our economic development isn't to compete with other countries but with nature and history. It just so happens that nature and history are far bigger rivals than any other country.

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## tower9

iiowelo said:


> These are your predictions. You can keep them to yourselves.
> 
> 
> 
> Is that an admission that you can't defeat American majority population in a fair contest? That you need demographic change in American territory in order to surpass them?
> 
> That you need your enemy to fumble on its own rather than you making the enemy surrender through the might of China?
> 
> Seems like you admit Western civilization is inherently superior to Chinese/Mongolian or East Asian.



The West has been superior for the past 300-400 years. It was a great run. That period is now drawing to a close.

No civilization stays on top forever. Rome and Han China were equally great during their time, they both collapsed. But unlike China, Europe went into stagnation for over a millenium. During the ensuing period, China experienced multiple golden ages while the Islamic civilization also experienced a great golden age of civilization. Europeans were stuck in the dark ages during this very long period, roughly 1200 years from the fall of Rome to the Age of Discovery.

So check your arrogance. No civilization stays on top forever.


----------



## Apollon

What i find amusing is, that some here dont realize how Putin uses them. Ukraine is the breadbasket of africa and middle east. Now is time when farmers start sowing wheat and sunflowers. Ukraine will be blocked for years and there will be extreme hunger in middle east and africa. Putin does this on purpose to create pressure and the very same people who Putin sees as no value stand here and cheer him. Crazy


----------



## Apollon

khansaheeb said:


> Neither Greece or Germany has nukes, what are you talking about?




Germany has 60 nukes stationed in Büchel under the nuclear sharing treaty in NATO.

France has 300 nukes as force the frappe in case Russia gets a bit too agressive and needs some glassing in Moscow.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## iiowelo

Apollon said:


> What i find amusing is, that some here dont realize how Putin uses them. Ukraine is the breadbasket of africa and middle east. Now is time when farmers start sowing wheat and sunflowers. Ukraine will be blocked for years and there will be extreme hunger in middle east and africa. Putin does this on purpose to create pressure and the very same people who Putin sees as no value stand here and cheer him. Crazy



You can always buy wheat or grain from anywhere really. France, Brazil, Russia, Ukraine, Pakistan, India, Australia or America. Anybody with agricultural land can do this. Not really high tech. 

Backward middle eastern savages haven't mastered it yet, that's why over 7000 years after earliest civilizations they still can't feed their peoples and population stands smaller than a single Hindu country like India or Chinese country like China.



Apollon said:


> Germany has 60 nukes stationed in Büchel under the nuclear sharing treaty in NATO.



Those are American nukes. Stored in Germany. Only to be activated with American codes.


----------



## tower9

iiowelo said:


> False.
> 
> Byzantium was only captured by turkics in 1453. That was less than 600 years ago.
> Romans dominated the entire Middle East North Africa Balkans Anatolia London Paris from over 2000 years ago.
> 
> You can see to this day the vestiges of Roman influence. Turks abandoned Arabic alphabet and copied Roman alphabet because they thought their populace would remain analphabets otherwise.
> 
> You can see the entire Middle East in ruins and still their rulers are vassals of the West, with not a single bomb or nuclear chemical or biological weapons attack conducted anywhere in the West. Instead it's them who are getting shafted regularly.
> 
> That's been the standard for over 2000 years.
> 
> African slaves were a thing in rome over 2000 years ago.
> 
> China was never dominant beyond the Mongoloid sphere.
> 
> Greeks conquered all of Iran. They simply are not good at warfighting. Could any Iranian ever capture Rome? Arab? Turk? Mongol? East Asian? Afghan? Kurd?
> 
> No. Never.
> 
> They are not good at fighting wars.


You're a silly pointless person.


----------



## Apollon

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505673972628787202



Surrender or what? Bombing civilians then? Ohh wait...Putler aleady does that. I say they should not surrender and give the russians hell.


----------



## retaxis

tower9 said:


> Ok guy. You're acting like a silly child trying your best to hold on to a rapidly diminishing glory while attempting to maintain an aura of superiority by using condescension.
> 
> It's ok. If I was European, I'd prefer to live in an augmented reality instead of actual reality myself.


A country (west) with no future who actively employs africans and asians to replace them can not be respected by anyone especially East Asians who have far higher IQ. Thats the fact of the matter. Case closed.


----------



## Apollon

iiowelo said:


> You can always buy wheat or grain from anywhere really. France, Brazil, Russia, Ukraine, Pakistan, India, Australia or America. Anybody with agricultural land can do this. Not really high tech.
> 
> Backward middle eastern savages haven't mastered it yet, that's why over 7000 years after earliest civilizations they still can't feed their peoples and population stands smaller than a single Hindu country like India or Chinese country like China.
> 
> 
> 
> Those are American nukes. Stored in Germany. Only to be activated with American codes.



You dont need codes to activate a nuke, thats science fiction. You replace the ignition mechanism and boom it goes. Its not rocket science. There are no codes to make it critical.


----------



## iiowelo

retaxis said:


> The superior one is the one that lasts. Western Civilisation will be in the dust bins soon enough. They are stupid enough to replace themselves with brown and black people while the rest of us laugh at them. Don't blame me when your grandkids are black and speak nigerian better than Italian. Not my fault my grandkids will have High IQ and high wealth and your grand kids will be low life afro gang bangers. You can keep yelping about superiority all you want but you sound like a clown hahahaha




Sorry you sound like a clown with no cogent argument or facts and ending with "hahahaha". 

Further affirmation of Mongoloid sphere inferiority to Roman empire/civilization. 

Italy is for Italians. Europe does not take in unlimited number of refugees. Meanwhile China is facing a demographic crises and in 30 to 40 years, maybe you will be importing men from India to impregnate your women since your birth rate is abysmally low.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

iiowelo said:


> These are your predictions. You can keep them to yourselves.
> 
> 
> 
> Is that an admission that you can't defeat American majority population in a fair contest? That you need demographic change in American territory in order to surpass them?
> 
> That you need your enemy to fumble on its own rather than you making the enemy surrender through the might of China?
> 
> Seems like you admit Western civilization is inherently superior to Chinese/Mongolian or East Asian.



To be honest, the Anglo-Saxons made the western civilization the uncontested champion and surpassed all civilizations in the past.

But now their dominance is truly being contested by the new rising China. If China succeeds this time, and of course it will reach a new grandeur that has never been seeing before.

That's how the cycle repeats itself.

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## iiowelo

retaxis said:


> A country (west) with no future who actively employs africans and asians to replace them can not be respected by anyone especially East Asians who have far higher IQ. Thats the fact of the matter. Case closed.



East Asian IQ is debatable. They have no invention of note to their name. They are notorious for being copycats. That's why we saw Japan has been a loyal slave for 70 odd years. 

China can't even capture Delhi. A tiny island off the coast of Europe ruled over all of India for 200 years. Big difference in ability and talent.


----------



## retaxis

iiowelo said:


> Sorry you sound like a clown with no cogent argument or facts and ending with "hahahaha".
> 
> Further affirmation of Mongoloid sphere inferiority to Roman empire/civilization.
> 
> Italy is for Italians. Europe does not take in unlimited number of refugees. Meanwhile China is facing a demographic crises and in 30 to 40 years, maybe you will be importing men from India to impregnate your women since your birth rate is abysmally low.


Lol EU shouting at the clouds won't change the fact that Africans and Asians will replace the whites in EU soon enough within next 50 years. America within 22years hahaha. Don't be angry at me that your descendents will be afro street cleaners wannabe rappers okay? China population fluctuates a lot over 5000year history but we don't replace ourselves with africans like u do hahaha


----------



## iiowelo

Apollon said:


> You dont need codes to activate a nuke, thats science fiction. You replace the ignition mechanism and boom it goes. Its not rocket science. There are no codes to make it critical.



And I presume you activated some of these nukes to know it?


----------



## Apollon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> To be honest, the Anglo-Saxons made the western civilization the uncontested champion and surpassed all civilizations in the past.
> 
> But now their dominance is truly being contested by the new rising China. If China succeeds this time, and of course it will reach a new grandeur that has never been seeing before.
> 
> That's how the cycle repeats itself.



Well in case we dont like it we can still glass the planet. So i dont fear chinese rise that much. They will always be limited by our nukes.


----------



## retaxis

iiowelo said:


> East Asian IQ is debatable. They have no invention of note to their name. They are notorious for being copycats. That's why we saw Japan has been a loyal slave for 70 odd years.
> 
> China can't even capture Delhi. A tiny island off the coast of Europe ruled over all of India for 200 years. Big difference in ability and talent.


America + UN with airpower and everything can't even beat a peasant army with 19th century weapons in Korea lol. Can't even hold onto Pyongyang 70years ago and now you try to act like a big boy when your being replaced by blacks and asians? Keep yelling at the clouds cos no one respects you lol


----------



## iiowelo

retaxis said:


> Lol EU shouting at the clouds won't change the fact that Africans and Asians will replace the whites in EU soon enough within next 50 years. America within 22years hahaha. Don't be angry at me that your descendents will be afro street cleaners wannabe rappers okay? China population fluctuates a lot over 5000year history but we don't replace ourselves with africans like u do hahaha



European populations exist in Europe, North America, South America, Australia as far away as Namibia, South Africa and Zimbabwe. 

Chinese should be worried about rising Indian population and more Indians impregnating Chinese women. Your religion is said to have been influenced by India.



Apollon said:


> Well in case we dont like it we can still glass the planet. So i dont fear chinese rise that much. They will always be limited by our nukes.



Greece has no nukes


----------



## retaxis

Apollon said:


> Well in case we dont like it we can still glass the planet. So i dont fear chinese rise that much. They will always be limited by our nukes.


China can build 1 million nukes if it wanted. Soviet Union with a fraction of China's GDP could build over 100k nukes lol


----------



## Apollon

retaxis said:


> Lol EU shouting at the clouds won't change the fact that Africans and Asians will replace the whites in EU soon enough within next 50 years. America within 22years hahaha. Don't be angry at me that your descendents will be afro street cleaners wannabe rappers okay? China population fluctuates a lot over 5000year history but we don't replace ourselves with africans like u do hahaha



We dont do neither. Migration numbers collapsed by 97% within 3 years. They now blocked in the mediterranean sea or get stuck in libyan camps. So spare us this bullshit.

There are more africans and middle easternees in China than Europe



iiowelo said:


> European populations exist in Europe, North America, South America, Australia as far away as Namibia, South Africa and Zimbabwe.
> 
> Chinese should be worried about rising Indian population and more Indians impregnating Chinese women. Your religion is said to have been influenced by India.
> 
> 
> 
> Greece has no nukes



We = west. I dont think in microstates amigo.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

iiowelo said:


> Sorry you sound like a clown with no cogent argument or facts and ending with "hahahaha".
> 
> Further affirmation of Mongoloid sphere inferiority to Roman empire/civilization.
> 
> Italy is for Italians. Europe does not take in unlimited number of refugees. Meanwhile China is facing a demographic crises and in 30 to 40 years, maybe you will be importing men from India to impregnate your women since your birth rate is abysmally low.



The low fertility is actually a trap for all nations, as the gap wealth is getting wider, most people cannot afford to raise children with too much financial burden.

The Chinese government is working hard to solve this issue, and solely importing the refugees won't solve this demographic crises.


----------



## tower9

iiowelo said:


> East Asian IQ is debatable. They have no invention of note to their name. They are notorious for being copycats. That's why we saw Japan has been a loyal slave for 70 odd years.
> 
> China can't even capture Delhi. A tiny island off the coast of Europe ruled over all of India for 200 years. Big difference in ability and talent.



You have to be intentional, to be this ignorant. 

China was responsible for a huge portion of human invention prior to the industrial age. Today, it is again at the cutting edge of a vast array of technologies. You live in the year 1990. 

Prior to the European age of discovery, Zheng He led a fleet that would've ran over Columbus's ships like a speed bump. However, unlike the greedy bloodthirsty Europeans, China was not a colonial power and despite reaching Africa, was not interested in colonization and stopped further voyages. If China was as desperate and greedy as the Europeans were at that time, it would've conquered Europe.


----------



## iiowelo

retaxis said:


> America + UN with airpower and everything can't even beat a peasant army with 19th century weapons in Korea lol. Can't even hold onto Pyongyang 70years ago and now you try to act like a big boy when your being replaced by blacks and asians? Keep yelling at the clouds cos no one respects you lol



Isn't South Korea an American vassal?

Have you taken Taiwan back yet? Isn't that island in your backyard?

It won't be possible in centuries for China to establish military bases on Western soil like West has done on Chinese soil. 

Sorry if truth hurts you.


----------



## retaxis

iiowelo said:


> European populations exist in Europe, North America, South America, Australia as far away as Namibia, South Africa and Zimbabwe.
> 
> Chinese should be worried about rising Indian population and more Indians impregnating Chinese women. Your religion is said to have been influenced by India.
> 
> 
> 
> Greece has no nukes


Lol all China has to do is cut off India water supply which all comes from Tibet and India will turn into desert over night so I don't know why you talking about Indians. I think you are a low IQ indian pretending to be Italian lol. You Indians are so pathetic always hiding behind other peoples flags. 

Never the less here we sit, with our popcorn in our hands watching the West kill themselves over LGBT, BLM, ANTIFA, Fascists and rapid demographic changes. Goodbye West it was fun while you were around lol

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## iiowelo

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The low fertility is actually a trap for all nations, as the gap wealth is getting wider, most people cannot afford to raise children with too much financial burden.
> 
> The Chinese government is working hard to solve this issue, and solely importing the refugees won't solve this demographic crises.



Western countries are rich. 

China is middle income. 

See the difference?



retaxis said:


> Lol all China has to do is cut off India water supply which all comes from Tibet and India will turn into desert over night so I don't know why you talking about Indians. I think you are a low IQ indian pretending to be Italian lol. You Indians are so pathetic always hiding behind other peoples flags.
> 
> Never the less here we sit, with our popcorn in our hands watching the West kill themselves over LGBT, BLM, ANTIFA, Fascists and rapid demographic changes. Goodbye West it was fun while you were around lol



Why haven't you done so yet?

You can't even take on Taiwan and capture Delhi. 

A tiny European island ruled over all of India and created modern India after ruling it for 200 years. 

Clear difference in ability and talent.


----------



## retaxis

iiowelo said:


> Isn't South Korea an American vassal?
> 
> Have you taken Taiwan back yet? Isn't that island in your backyard?
> 
> It won't be possible in centuries for China to establish military bases on Western soil like West has done on Chinese soil.
> 
> Sorry if truth hurts you.


So the truth is China 70 years ago with pitchforks and 19th century weapons defeated the whole united nations including America with all its allies including puny Italy? Sorry if the truth hurts you.

Btw China will be pure and the same for 5000 years to come. In 50years time EU will be afro-muslim. I love the fact that I get to watch this unfold hahaha


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## KAL-EL

This Thread has gone completely off the rails.

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## retaxis

Apollon said:


> We dont do neither. Migration numbers collapsed by 97% within 3 years. They now blocked in the mediterranean sea or get stuck in libyan camps. So spare us this bullshit.
> 
> There are more africans and middle easternees in China than Europe
> 
> 
> 
> We = west. I dont think in microstates amigo.


Hahaha keep denying it its okay. Just as America will be minority majority in 2042 soon EU will be too. Lol at least since your brown already you will fit right in!








Minorities in U.S. set to become majority by 2042 (Published 2008)







www.nytimes.com


----------



## iiowelo

tower9 said:


> If China was as desperate and greedy as the Europeans were at that time, it would've conquered Europe.



Europeans actually carved China up into zones of influence.

All you have is some empty bravado, no historical facts. You were only important for mongoloids, that's it.


----------



## zartosht

iiowelo said:


> False.
> 
> Byzantium was only captured by turkics in 1453. That was less than 600 years ago.
> Romans dominated the entire Middle East North Africa Balkans Anatolia London Paris from over 2000 years ago.
> 
> You can see to this day the vestiges of Roman influence. Turks abandoned Arabic alphabet and copied Roman alphabet because they thought their populace would remain analphabets otherwise.
> 
> You can see the entire Middle East in ruins and still their rulers are vassals of the West, with not a single bomb or nuclear chemical or biological weapons attack conducted anywhere in the West. Instead it's them who are getting shafted regularly.
> 
> That's been the standard for over 2000 years.
> 
> African slaves were a thing in rome over 2000 years ago.
> 
> China was never dominant beyond the Mongoloid sphere.
> 
> Greeks conquered all of Iran. They simply are not good at warfighting. Could any Iranian ever capture Rome? Arab? Turk? Mongol? East Asian? Afghan? Kurd?
> 
> No. Never.
> 
> They are not good at fighting wars.



What planet do you live on? Rome never dominated the middle east. It was always split and in dispute between Rome in the height of its power and Iran. 

Also there is a huge difference between the eastern/western roman empre/ and the united Rome that fought Iran

Some of the most brutal beatings Rome sufferered were by Iran. From battle of carrhae where the advance guard of the Iranian army slaughtered the main roman army, captured all their eagles, andlsauhhtered crassus and his son , which threw Rome into a civil war between caesar and pompey

To this famous occasion :









Thats roman emperor valerian and future emperor philip the arab. The entire roman army was slaughtered/ captured to the last man by shapur. 

Valerian was taken in chains and forced to kneel and used as a step for shapur to mount his horse on. This also caused severe instanility in rome. 

We also slaughtered julian the apostate in a different war, surrounded his army, and instead of slaughtering them, sent in ambassadors to force huniliating terms in exchange for their lives

The roman heavy infantry never could fight the Iranian heavy cavalry. Iran learned its lesson from alexander, and most elite units were mounted heavy cavalry. Roman generals were terriffied of Iranian xavalry and usually resorted to trickery to try and defeat Iran.

Learn your history before opening your mouth


----------



## retaxis

iiowelo said:


> Europeans actually carved China up into zones of influence.
> 
> All you have is some empty bravado, no historical facts. You were only important for mongoloids, that's it.











Minorities in U.S. set to become majority by 2042 (Published 2008)







www.nytimes.com





EU will soon follow. We will watch with great amusement hahaha. Just imagine the BLM + LGTBIQ+ANTIFA fighting white neo nazis. So much entertainment for the rest of the world to come.


----------



## tower9

iiowelo said:


> Europeans actually carved China up into zones of influence.
> 
> All you have is some empty bravado, no historical facts. You were only important for mongoloids, that's it.



China's only mistake was closing itself off and underestimating the greed and bloodthirsty nature of the Europeans. It was complacent because China was far greater than Europe for the vast majority of history. Don't worry, that mistake was learned.


----------



## iiowelo

retaxis said:


> Hahaha keep denying it its okay. Just as America will be minority majority in 2042 soon EU will be too. Lol at least since your brown already you will fit right in!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Minorities in U.S. set to become majority by 2042 (Published 2008)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com



Will?

Are you an Indian? Don't talk about the future since the future remains unknown. We don't believe in Chinese soothsayers.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

iiowelo said:


> Western countries are rich.
> 
> China is middle income.
> 
> See the difference?
> 
> 
> 
> Why haven't you done so yet?
> 
> You can't even take on Taiwan and capture Delhi.
> 
> A tiny European island ruled over all of India and created modern India after ruling it for 200 years.
> 
> Clear difference in ability and talent.



Hard to say.

Now the Anglo-Saxons are now willing to prepare a final decisive battle against China.

They are willing to sacrifice your economy to pump up their Hit Points for the final battle against China.

If China's pro-West faction cannot contain President Xi, and they will definitely make their move.

To them, everything is expendable as long as they can preserve their hegemony in the world.

I think all the non-Anglo Europeans should think about a backup plan.


----------



## iiowelo

From Intel Slava Z tg 

_*🇷🇺🇺🇦*_ The repeated explosion on the territory of the Retroville shopping center put everything in its place: the territory of the Sport Life extension, which was hit, was most likely used as a warehouse for storing ammunition.


_*🇷🇺*_ _*🇺🇦*_ Rockets landing in Kiev

https://****/intelslava/23025


tower9 said:


> Wait a minute. You are an Italian. You're bragging about owning the world, but you're not the type of European that did that. The Anglos conquered a global empire but not the Italians. You guys were the cooks for the Nazis in WW2 and that's about it. Pretty much clowns all around so the Germans were so over-extended because they had to cover for you guys.



Roman Empire.

Why did you censor tg address?

t dot me/intelslava/23025


----------



## KAL-EL

*"Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments"*

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## ChineseTiger1986

Apollon said:


> Connection to current war in Ukraine?
> 
> 
> 
> No cathedrals anywhere than here. 🤗



It is a US vs China centered world right now.

Since the US media doesn't even hesitate to bring China on the table, even China remains silent since the beginning.

To be frank, Russia is pretty much disappointed with the current western civilization, maybe they will start to rebrand themselves as an Eurasian civilization.

Since they have more Eurasian inputs compared to other Europeans, maybe they are more flexible to switch side.

If cooperating with China can make Russia great again, why not?

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## Apollon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It is a US vs China centered world right now.
> 
> Since the US media doesn't even hesitate to bring China on the table, even China remains silent since the beginning.
> 
> To be frank, Russia is pretty much disappointed with the current western civilization, maybe they will start to rebrand themselves as an Eurasian civilization.
> 
> Since they have more Eurasian inputs compared to other Europeans, maybe they are more flexible to switch side.
> 
> If cooperating with China can make Russia great again, why not?



Russia is a complete european culture. There is zero connection to asia. 

Only with Europe can they be independend. With China only a Vasall

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## tower9

Putting this thread back on track.


----------



## Apollon

Mariupol ignored Putins ultimatum. Its better to stand upright and fight than to bow to this tyrant

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## zartosht

Look at western media romanticizing mercenaries, terrorists and wannabe rambos going to ukraine:






blokes from chicago giving putin a headache it seems. Meanwhile Russians are bombing these worthless cannon fodder daily inside their training camps. While western media/elites use these sacrificial lambs to sneak elite soldiers in and potentially use this foreign legion as cover.

thats all they are good for. acting as cover for NATO special forces. The only good news is this is a real war as they are finding out the hard way. Its not some photo-op of killing some defenseless muslims, and getting hero recognition at home. This is real war with a serious army

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## tower9

zartosht said:


> Look at western media romanticizing mercenaries, terrorists and wannabe rambos going to ukraine:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blokes from chicago giving putin a headache it seems. Meanwhile Russians are bombing these worthless cannon fodder daily inside their training camps. While western media/elites use these sacrificial lambs to sneak elite soldiers in and potentially use this foreign legion as cover.
> 
> thats all they are good for. acting as cover for NATO special forces. The only good news is this is a real war as they are finding out the hard way. Its not some photo-op of killing some defenseless muslims, and getting hero recognition at home. This is real war with a serious army



Their bodies will probably never even be identified after getting blown to a million pieces by hypersonic missiles. These people are truly naive. They think they are going to be Rambo fighting peasants on the back of makeshift Toyota trucks, but instead they are going to be hit by hypersonic missiles traveling faster than sound.

Russia is starting to unleash hypersonic missiles unto the battlefield. Destroying hundreds of lives with every hit. These are the fastest missiles on earth, invincible to any missile shield in existence.

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## Viet

Apollon said:


> Mariupol ignored Putins ultimatum. Its better to stand upright and fight than to bow to this tyrant


The defenders of Mariupol deserve big respect.
Putin’s army will bomb the city to ashes.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Viet said:


> The defenders of Mariupol deserve big respect.
> Putin’s army will bomb the city to ashes.


Putin is almost as ruthless as Genghis Khan. I believe Russia is the inheritor of the throne of Mongolia.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> Trust me, Putin makes his country to a vassal. Look, Putin only has gas and oil to offer to the new chinese master. the problem for Russia is, national resources count little value in hightec economy. Modern manufacturing require less energy. it’s just one percent of total value. Russia image even in Asia is finished. How can you trust a warmonger and liar?



He will try to create his own ecosystems, then trying to integrate with China's ecosystems.

BTW, China already treats him and his country with a lot of respect, so it is okay for him.



FairAndUnbiased said:


> Putin is almost as ruthless as Genghis Khan. I believe Russia is the inheritor of the throne of Mongolia.



Well, they can be the successor of both Roman Empire and Mongol Empire.

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## tower9

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Putin is almost as ruthless as Genghis Khan. I believe Russia is the inheritor of the throne of Mongolia.


The press certainly thinks he is.

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## FairAndUnbiased

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> He will try to create his own ecosystems, then trying to integrate with China's ecosystems.
> 
> BTW, China already treats him and his country with a lot of respect, so it is okay for him.
> 
> Well, they can be the successor of both Roman Empire and Mongol Empire.


that is why we can work with him. we understand how Mongols think. From Xiongnu, to Xianbei, to Mongols, now Russians, Chinese have always understood how the northern empires worked. 

They are a fierce, proud warrior people, not too good economically and need to trade resources for manufactured products from China. If we get weak, they can conquer us, and if they get weak we can conquer them, but when we are both strong, and have mutual respect, both our societies can thrive. 

Typically, the northern empires always direct their attention westward if we simply are too strong to deal with, like how Xiongnu ran away from Han and attacked Rome instead.

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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> He will try to create his own ecosystems, then trying to integrate with China's ecosystems.
> 
> BTW, China already treats him and his country with a lot of respect, so it is okay for him.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, they can be the successor of both Roman Empire and Mongol Empire.


What ecosystem? Putin reigns 22y he has done nothing accept turn Russia into a gas station.


----------



## tower9

FairAndUnbiased said:


> that is why we can work with him. we understand how Mongols think. From Xiongnu, to Xianbei, to Mongols, now Russians, Chinese have always understood how the northern empires worked.
> 
> They are a fierce, proud warrior people, not too good economically and need to trade resources for manufactured products from China. If we get weak, they can conquer us, and if they get weak we can conquer them, but when we are both strong, and have mutual respect, both our societies can thrive.
> 
> Typically, the northern empires always direct their attention westward if we simply are too strong to deal with, like how Xiongnu ran away from Han and attacked Rome instead.



True. When you understand the Russian mentality, you realize how foolish it has been for the Western alliance to keep trying to humiliate Russia. 

They are a people who would lose their own limbs to cut your face for insulting them.

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## Viet

tower9 said:


> True. When you understand the Russian mentality, you realize how foolish it has been for the Western alliance to keep trying to humiliate Russia.
> 
> They are a people who would lose their own limbs to cut your face for insulting them.


So they are angry then turn aggressive because people don’t want to do with them? Russia has in the hands to join the western club.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> What ecosystem? Putin reigns 22y he has done nothing accept turn Russia into a gas station.



It took him 22 years to consolidate a true alliance with China, not bad.


----------



## tower9

Viet said:


> So they are angry then turn aggressive because people don’t want to do with them? Russia has in the hands to join the western club.



NATO is an anti-Russian military alliance. They want to take Ukraine, part of the historic Russian homeland, and place weapons, troops, missiles there. Right in their heartland. 

Think with your head for one fucking minute. None of this sounds like a bad idea to you? Maybe when this dangerous country tells us repeatedly for 15 years that this is a red line, maybe, just maybe they mean it?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> So they are angry then turn aggressive because people don’t want to do with them? Russia has in the hands to join the western club.



But the western club doesn't want a giant single country like Russia to be part of it.

They want Russia to disintegrate into smaller countries like Ukraine or Poland first, and this is simply unacceptable for most Russians.


----------



## u-pun

Apollon said:


> Russia is a complete european culture. There is zero connection to asia.


45% of Russia has haplogroup N which originated in China.Therefire most north russians do have mongoloid features -brachycephalic(small ) skulls,small often snub noses,eye folds,medium built.Also mongols and huns ruled upto Hungary ,therefore mongoloid features are observed in central europe also.


----------



## Viet

tower9 said:


> NATO is an anti-Russian military alliance. They want to take Ukraine, part of the historic Russian homeland, and place weapons, troops, missiles there. Right in their heartland.
> 
> Think with your head for one fucking minute. None of this sounds like a bad idea to you? Maybe when this dangerous country tells us repeatedly for 15 years that this is a red line, maybe, just maybe they mean it?


Ukraine is a lost cause for Russia. There is nothing Russia can do. They can bomb Ukraine to ashes.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It took him 22 years to consolidate a true alliance with China, not bad.


Do you think it’s only China that wants a alliance with Russia? Don’t be naive. Germany wants a ally with Russia.
Germany will have everything it needs to start WW 3.


----------



## tower9

Viet said:


> Ukraine is a lost cause for Russia. There is nothing Russia can do. They can bomb Ukraine to ashes.
> 
> 
> Do you think it’s only China that wants a alliance with Russia? Don’t be naive. Germany wants a ally with Russia.
> Germany will have everything it needs to start WW 3.


Germany is too cucked by the Zionists to do anything. Allying with Russia would certainly be in its own interest but Germany today is a cuck slave to the Zionists and nothing more. The German spirit was broken seventy years ago and they never recovered. They are a vassal state and nothing more.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> Ukraine is a lost cause for Russia. There is nothing Russia can do. They can bomb Ukraine to ashes.
> 
> 
> Do you think it’s only China that wants a alliance with Russia? Don’t be naive. Germany wants a ally with Russia.
> Germany will have everything it needs to start WW 3.



Germany is not strong to withstand the US influence, and let alone to topple the US world order.

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## tower9

Viet said:


> Ukraine is a lost cause for Russia. There is nothing Russia can do. They can bomb Ukraine to ashes.
> 
> 
> Do you think it’s only China that wants a alliance with Russia? Don’t be naive. Germany wants a ally with Russia.
> Germany will have everything it needs to start WW 3.


Also I never said the invasion of Ukraine was a good thing for Russia. It may certainly be economically disastrous. But what the west doesn’t understand is that Russia is a country that is willing to destroy itself as long as it can kill its enemies.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Apollon said:


> They cant. There is nothing roman on the moscow pancake face



Funny, first you say they have nothing to do with Asia, then insult them having a flat face like other Asians.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## khansaheeb




----------



## Clutch

sur said:


> Russia says it’s struck another mercenary base in Ukraine​Russian forces hit a Ukrainian special forces training center early on Sunday, *killing more than 100 local troops and foreign mercenaries*, the Ministry of Defense has said.
> A Ukrainian Special Operations Forces training center* near the town of Ovruch in the northern Zhytomyr *Region, which hosted the mercenaries . . . A week ago, Russia destroyed another mercenary base at the *Yavoriv *range in the western *Lviv *region, saying that up to *180 *. . . after the strike, reports emerged of mercenaries fleeing to neighboring Poland in large numbers. . . .* Russia has warned that it was aware of all the locations of mercenaries on the territory of Ukraine and promised to continue targeting them *_*“without mercy.” *“*All further responsibility for the death of this category of foreign citizens in Ukraine rests solely with the leadership of these countries*,"_
> 
> 
> Beside, Rus has said previously that such volunteers *will not have PoW status*.
> 
> 
> 
> There's no word about *Wali *the sniper. Is there any news about his safety?
> 
> 
> 
> An Israeli Jew in essence called Zelensky a liar
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505584296693751811
> And also this article:
> . . .Zelensky asked us to treat the Ukrainians like they treated us 80 years ago. *I’m sorry, but I think we will have to reject that request*. We are, after all, a moral nation.”
> . . . The *Ukrainian *Auxiliary *Police rounded up Jews to be massacred in Babyn Yar, Lviv and Zhytomyr*. About 80,000 Ukrainians volunteered for the SS
> . . .some of the *worst *pogroms* in Jewish history were* perpetrated *in* what is now *Ukraine*.



Stefan Banderas ...


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## tower9

Clutch said:


> Stefan Banderas ...


Savage. 

Damn these foreign legion Rambo wannabes are so naive. Didn’t even have a fighting chance. Just wiped out by hypersonic missiles that they’ve never seen in their lives because the west doesn’t even field these weapons.

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## u-pun

Ukraine is responsible for this war because of Russophobia.Ukrainians have been blaming russians for anything bad happening in their country for decades,without any evidence,despite the fact that they are one of most corrupt country.In this process they started discriminating and persecuting minority russians leading ultimately to donbass conflict in 2014.This war is nothing but extension of that conflict.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Madni Bappa

Die Berliners paying $9 for a gallon of gas.

Americans are crying at $4.__ a gallon imagine paying $9.change for a gallon. Absolute madness, stupidity. Never in my life I paid more than $50 dollars to fill up. Now I'm paying $60-65. Absolutely crazy.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


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## tower9

Madni Bappa said:


> Die Berliners paying $9 for a gallon of gas.
> 
> Americans are crying at $4.__ a gallon imagine paying $9.change for a gallon. Absolute madness, stupidity. Never in my life I paid more than $50 dollars to fill up. Now I'm paying $60-65. Absolutely crazy.


It’s gonna cost $300 to fill up a F250 pretty soon

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Madni Bappa

sur said:


> Russia says it’s struck another mercenary base in Ukraine​Russian forces hit a Ukrainian special forces training center early on Sunday, *killing more than 100 local troops and foreign mercenaries*, the Ministry of Defense has said.
> A Ukrainian Special Operations Forces training center* near the town of Ovruch in the northern Zhytomyr *Region, which hosted the mercenaries . . . A week ago, Russia destroyed another mercenary base at the *Yavoriv *range in the western *Lviv *region, saying that up to *180 *. . . after the strike, reports emerged of mercenaries fleeing to neighboring Poland in large numbers. . . .* Russia has warned that it was aware of all the locations of mercenaries on the territory of Ukraine and promised to continue targeting them *_*“without mercy.” *“*All further responsibility for the death of this category of foreign citizens in Ukraine rests solely with the leadership of these countries*,"_
> 
> 
> Beside, Rus has said previously that such volunteers *will not have PoW status*.
> 
> 
> 
> There's no word about *Wali *the sniper. Is there any news about his safety?
> 
> 
> 
> An Israeli Jew in essence called Zelensky a liar
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505584296693751811
> And also this article:
> . . .Zelensky asked us to treat the Ukrainians like they treated us 80 years ago. *I’m sorry, but I think we will have to reject that request*. We are, after all, a moral nation.”
> . . . The *Ukrainian *Auxiliary *Police rounded up Jews to be massacred in Babyn Yar, Lviv and Zhytomyr*. About 80,000 Ukrainians volunteered for the SS
> . . .some of the *worst *pogroms* in Jewish history were* perpetrated *in* what is now *Ukraine*.


Yet we have likes of Jhungary, Gambit, Vergennes and other bots. Trying to repaint this Zebra into a leopard.

When you confront them with something like this. They simply ignore you.



tower9 said:


> It’s gonna cost $300 to fill up a F250 pretty soon


You know what that means.... January 6th 2.0 lmao Big Mac Ford Raptor Americans will go crazy man. Mass looting, rioting etc. I mean black people already loot whatever, whenever they get the chance already.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Germany is not strong to withstand the US influence, and let alone to topple the US world order.


Ah 50y down the road Germans only have WW1 and 2 in distant memory. What Germany needs is a Führer. He will say chinese are evil people they enslave the innocent folks in Russia and Vietnam.


----------



## Apollon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Funny, first you say they have nothing to do with Asia, then insult them having a flat face like other Asians.



Its not asians. With Pancake face i mean Putins botox face.


----------



## tower9

Madni Bappa said:


> Yet we have likes of Jhungary, Gambit, Vergennes and other bots. Trying to repaint this Zebra into a leopard.
> 
> When you confront them with something like this. They simply ignore you.
> 
> 
> You know what that means.... January 6th 2.0 lmao Big Mac Ford Raptor Americans will go crazy man. Mass looting, rioting etc. I mean black people already loot whatever, whenever they get the chance already.


Zog propaganda is one hell of a drug. I have to admit, for a minute it got me too. But once you start digging in the information you clearly see that the Ukrainian military is getting obliterated and Russia has a military strategy and is constantly taking more ground.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

tower9 said:


> Zog propaganda is one hell of a drug. I have to admit, for a minute it got me too. But once you start digging in the information you clearly see that the Ukrainian military is getting obliterated and Russia has a military strategy and is constantly taking more ground.



I like your satire? Whats russias strategy? Committ economic suicide?


----------



## tower9

Apollon said:


> I like your satire? Whats russias strategy? Committ economic suicide?


Conquer Ukraine. That’s their strategy. 

Actually you should be afraid of a country willing to commit economic suicide to spite its enemies. If the hypersonic missiles completely obliterating these foreign legion tik tok heroes isnt enough of a message that there is some real rage boiling over here, you should be nervous. They are PURPOSELY using hypersonic missiles to blast the foreign legion troops out of existence. 

But keep living in the zog Hollywood fantasy they’ve built up for you there.

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## 8888888888888

jhungary said:


> Open another production will take years, it's not like they can do it overnight, or even over next month. That is if Vietnam have money AND willing to open it. And Russia cannot buy them anyway because they can't use SWIFT.


Chinese payment system, they can also buy from other countries.


----------



## Apollon

tower9 said:


> Conquer Ukraine. That’s their strategy.
> 
> Actually you should be afraid of a country willing to commit economic suicide to spite its enemies. If the hypersonic missiles completely obliterating these foreign legion tik tok heroes isnt enough of a message that there is some real rage boiling over here, you should be nervous. They are PURPOSELY using hypersonic missiles to blast the foreign legion troops out of existence.
> 
> But keep living in the zog Hollywood fantasy they’ve built up for you there.



Saw lots of cooked russian soldiers. Its 4 weeks into war abd Vladi still has no mayor city under controle.

On a sidenote. Im not nervous. Russia is just another country we crush. 

402 billion taken from them just by EU. their soldiers grilled by the weapons we ship in.

We already plan regime change in moscow.


----------



## Brainsucker

tower9 said:


> It’s gonna cost $300 to fill up a F250 pretty soon



It is funny that most of the countries that getting sanction by US are oil producer countries. Like Russia, Iran, and Venezuela.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## tower9

Apollon said:


> Saw lots of cooked russian soldiers. Its 4 weeks into war abd Vladi still has no mayor city under controle.


They are taking their time. Letting civilians out before they take them. It’s been three weeks. Wars can last for years. The Ukraine is a heavily populated and large country, second largest in Europe behind Russia. Stop believing the zog narrative, if you should know anything about those people, it’s that they are masters at smoke and mirrors.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505805288796008452


----------



## Apollon

tower9 said:


> They are taking their time. Letting civilians out before they take them. It’s been three weeks. Wars can last for years. The Ukraine is a heavily populated and large country, second largest in Europe behind Russia. Stop believing the zog narrative, if you should know anything about those people, it’s that they are masters at smoke and mirrors.



We plan the FSB boss as replacement for putin


----------



## Amliunion

.


Apollon said:


> Surrender or what? Bombing civilians then? Ohh wait...Putler aleady does that. I say they should not surrender and give the russians hell.



US has said that NATO countries can send Army to Ukraine & stop thos bloodshed. Hope Germany & Greek send their Armies?


----------



## jamahir

Some Syrian veterans ready for Ukraine fight, commanders say​
Suleiman Al-Khalidi and Laila Bassam
Sun, March 20, 2022, 11:33 AM
By Suleiman Al-Khalidi and Laila Bassam

AMMAN/BEIRUT (Reuters) - Some Syrian paramilitary fighters say they are ready to deploy to Ukraine to fight in support of their ally Russia but have not yet received instructions to go, two of their commanders told Reuters.

Nabil Abdallah, a commander in the paramilitary National Defence Forces (NDF), said he was ready to use expertise in urban combat gained during the Syrian war to aid Russia, speaking to Reuters by phone from the Syrian town of Suqaylabiyah.

"Once we get instructions from the Syrian and Russian leadership, we will fight this righteous war," Abdallah said on March 14, four days after President Vladimir Putin gave a green light for 16,000 volunteers from the Middle East to deploy in Ukraine.

"We don't fear this war and are ready for it once instructions come to go and join. We will show them what they never saw ... We will wage street wars and (apply) tactics we acquired during our battles that defeated the terrorists in Syria," he added.

The Kremlin referred Reuters' requests for comment to the Russian Defence Ministry. The ministry did not respond to a request for comment on whether Russia intended to issue instructions for NDF fighters to deploy or whether any NDF fighters had been recruited so far.
Reuters received no response to questions sent to the Syrian information ministry and the army via the information ministry on whether Syria intended to issue instructions for NDF fighters to deploy or whether any NDF fighters had been recruited so far.

Syria is Russia's closest ally in the Middle East, and Moscow's intervention in the Syrian war in 2015 proved decisive in helping President Bashar al-Assad defeat rebel forces in enclaves across much of the country.
The NDF emerged from pro-Assad militias early in the Syrian war and fought in offensives that captured some of the rebel held enclaves, with Russian air support.
Now largely demobilised, the NDF numbers in the tens of thousands, experts on Syria say, a potentially large pool of recruits for Russia if the Ukraine war drags on.

*'A JUST WAR'*

A second NDF commander, Simon Wakeel from the nearby town of Mharda, also told Reuters "a lot of our people want to enlist to join our Russian brothers (and) allies, but we have not received any instructions from the leadership".

"We are auxiliary forces that fought alongside the army and with our Russian allies. We crushed the terrorists who waged the war in Syria," added Wakeel, who has been decorated by Russia and whose Facebook page includes images of church gatherings, men in military fatigues, and Assad.

On March 11, Putin told a meeting of Russia's Security Council that if people from the Middle East wanted to come to Ukraine of their own accord, and not for money, then Russia should help them "get to the conflict zone".
Putin's remarks came after Ukraine announced on March 3 that more than 16,000 foreigners had volunteered to fight on its side against Russia. Ukraine has established an "international legion" for people from abroad.

In Washington, U.S. Marine General Frank McKenzie, head of Central Command, which oversees U.S. forces in the Middle East, told a Senate hearing on March 15 the numbers of Syrians trying to head to Ukraine appeared to be a "trickle".

"We believe that out of Syria there are perhaps small, small -- very small -- groups of people trying to make their way to Ukraine," he said. "Right now it's a very small, trickle.”

Two senior regional officials with close ties to the Syrian government and three sources close to the Syrian army have told Reuters that Russia has been seeking to tap Syrians with combat experience for Ukraine.

The effort is being run out of a Russian air base at Hmeimein in Syria's Latakia province, they said, speaking on the condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the matter.

The Russian defence ministry did not respond to Reuters' questions on whether the sources' accounts were accurate, on who was conducting the recruitment, or how it was progressing. The Syrian information ministry did not respond to a Reuters request for the government's assessment of the Russian recruitment drive.

Ukrainian military intelligence said 150 mercenaries were sent from Russia's Hmeimein air base in Syria to Russia on March 15 to take part in military actions against Ukraine, the Chief Directorate of Intelligence of the Ministry of Defence of Ukraine said in response to questions from Reuters.

It said more than 30 fighters had returned to Hmeimein from Russia "after being wounded in fighting with Ukrainian defenders".

Ukrainian military intelligence said the recruits had been promised they would be used strictly in a policing role to maintain order in occupied territories, but recently information has begun to circulate among mercenaries about taking part directly in military actions against the Ukrainian army.

The Russian defence ministry and the Syrian information ministry didn't comment on the account from Ukrainian intelligence.

*'THE WORST DECISION'*

In a video released on March 11, President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said Ukraine had "information that Russian forces are bringing in mercenaries from different countries", warning "anyone who tries to join forces with the occupier in our Ukrainian lands -- this will be the worst decision of your life".

The senior regional officials said the salary on offer to an ordinary recruit was around $1,000 a month, some 30 times more than a Syrian soldier's pay. Experienced fighters could get $2,000.

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a UK-based organisation that reports on Syria using sources on all sides of the conflict, said a monthly salary of 1,000 euros is on offer, along with compensation of 7,000 euros for the wounded and 15,000 euros paid to the families of fighters who die. It cited Syrian military sources for the information.

No contracts had been issued, it said.

When asked by Reuters about reports of money being offered or paid to go to Ukraine, NDF commander Wakeel denied this and said "we are volunteers in a righteous case".

Reuters could not independently verify the compensation details reported by the Observatory and the regional officials.

At the March 11 meeting of the Russian Security Council, Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu said the volunteers from the Middle East were ready to fight alongside Russian-backed forces in the breakaway Donbass region of eastern Ukraine.

"Many of them we know – they helped in the struggle with (Islamic State) in the most difficult time, in the past 10 years," said Shoigu, in an apparent reference to the Syria conflict.

(Reporting by Suleiman al-Khalidi in Amman, Laila Bassam and Tom Perry in Beirut, Phil Stewart and Idrees Ali in Washington, Guy Faulconbridge and Mark Trevelyan in London, Natalia Zinets in Lviv, and by Ron Popeski; Writing by Tom Perry; Editing by William Maclean)


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505772419906211840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505809767834472450


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505754153146068993

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## PaklovesTurkiye

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505746448582955008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505748004338343938

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505754379718209539

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## jhungary

8888888888888 said:


> Chinese payment system, they can also buy from other countries.


You can't force Vietnam to use Chinese payment system........I mean, why would they? They are not under sanction, and they can use SWIFT. That would be too much work to try to earn something that's not yours and then risking for a country that cannot pay.


----------



## tower9

jamahir said:


> Some Syrian veterans ready for Ukraine fight, commanders say​
> Suleiman Al-Khalidi and Laila Bassam
> Sun, March 20, 2022, 11:33 AM
> By Suleiman Al-Khalidi and Laila Bassam
> 
> AMMAN/BEIRUT (Reuters) - Some Syrian paramilitary fighters say they are ready to deploy to Ukraine to fight in support of their ally Russia but have not yet received instructions to go, two of their commanders told Reuters.
> 
> Nabil Abdallah, a commander in the paramilitary National Defence Forces (NDF), said he was ready to use expertise in urban combat gained during the Syrian war to aid Russia, speaking to Reuters by phone from the Syrian town of Suqaylabiyah.
> 
> "Once we get instructions from the Syrian and Russian leadership, we will fight this righteous war," Abdallah said on March 14, four days after President Vladimir Putin gave a green light for 16,000 volunteers from the Middle East to deploy in Ukraine.
> 
> "We don't fear this war and are ready for it once instructions come to go and join. We will show them what they never saw ... We will wage street wars and (apply) tactics we acquired during our battles that defeated the terrorists in Syria," he added.
> 
> The Kremlin referred Reuters' requests for comment to the Russian Defence Ministry. The ministry did not respond to a request for comment on whether Russia intended to issue instructions for NDF fighters to deploy or whether any NDF fighters had been recruited so far.
> Reuters received no response to questions sent to the Syrian information ministry and the army via the information ministry on whether Syria intended to issue instructions for NDF fighters to deploy or whether any NDF fighters had been recruited so far.
> 
> Syria is Russia's closest ally in the Middle East, and Moscow's intervention in the Syrian war in 2015 proved decisive in helping President Bashar al-Assad defeat rebel forces in enclaves across much of the country.
> The NDF emerged from pro-Assad militias early in the Syrian war and fought in offensives that captured some of the rebel held enclaves, with Russian air support.
> Now largely demobilised, the NDF numbers in the tens of thousands, experts on Syria say, a potentially large pool of recruits for Russia if the Ukraine war drags on.
> 
> *'A JUST WAR'*
> 
> A second NDF commander, Simon Wakeel from the nearby town of Mharda, also told Reuters "a lot of our people want to enlist to join our Russian brothers (and) allies, but we have not received any instructions from the leadership".
> 
> "We are auxiliary forces that fought alongside the army and with our Russian allies. We crushed the terrorists who waged the war in Syria," added Wakeel, who has been decorated by Russia and whose Facebook page includes images of church gatherings, men in military fatigues, and Assad.
> 
> On March 11, Putin told a meeting of Russia's Security Council that if people from the Middle East wanted to come to Ukraine of their own accord, and not for money, then Russia should help them "get to the conflict zone".
> Putin's remarks came after Ukraine announced on March 3 that more than 16,000 foreigners had volunteered to fight on its side against Russia. Ukraine has established an "international legion" for people from abroad.
> 
> In Washington, U.S. Marine General Frank McKenzie, head of Central Command, which oversees U.S. forces in the Middle East, told a Senate hearing on March 15 the numbers of Syrians trying to head to Ukraine appeared to be a "trickle".
> 
> "We believe that out of Syria there are perhaps small, small -- very small -- groups of people trying to make their way to Ukraine," he said. "Right now it's a very small, trickle.”
> 
> Two senior regional officials with close ties to the Syrian government and three sources close to the Syrian army have told Reuters that Russia has been seeking to tap Syrians with combat experience for Ukraine.
> 
> The effort is being run out of a Russian air base at Hmeimein in Syria's Latakia province, they said, speaking on the condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the matter.
> 
> The Russian defence ministry did not respond to Reuters' questions on whether the sources' accounts were accurate, on who was conducting the recruitment, or how it was progressing. The Syrian information ministry did not respond to a Reuters request for the government's assessment of the Russian recruitment drive.
> 
> Ukrainian military intelligence said 150 mercenaries were sent from Russia's Hmeimein air base in Syria to Russia on March 15 to take part in military actions against Ukraine, the Chief Directorate of Intelligence of the Ministry of Defence of Ukraine said in response to questions from Reuters.
> 
> It said more than 30 fighters had returned to Hmeimein from Russia "after being wounded in fighting with Ukrainian defenders".
> 
> Ukrainian military intelligence said the recruits had been promised they would be used strictly in a policing role to maintain order in occupied territories, but recently information has begun to circulate among mercenaries about taking part directly in military actions against the Ukrainian army.
> 
> The Russian defence ministry and the Syrian information ministry didn't comment on the account from Ukrainian intelligence.
> 
> *'THE WORST DECISION'*
> 
> In a video released on March 11, President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said Ukraine had "information that Russian forces are bringing in mercenaries from different countries", warning "anyone who tries to join forces with the occupier in our Ukrainian lands -- this will be the worst decision of your life".
> 
> The senior regional officials said the salary on offer to an ordinary recruit was around $1,000 a month, some 30 times more than a Syrian soldier's pay. Experienced fighters could get $2,000.
> 
> The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a UK-based organisation that reports on Syria using sources on all sides of the conflict, said a monthly salary of 1,000 euros is on offer, along with compensation of 7,000 euros for the wounded and 15,000 euros paid to the families of fighters who die. It cited Syrian military sources for the information.
> 
> No contracts had been issued, it said.
> 
> When asked by Reuters about reports of money being offered or paid to go to Ukraine, NDF commander Wakeel denied this and said "we are volunteers in a righteous case".
> 
> Reuters could not independently verify the compensation details reported by the Observatory and the regional officials.
> 
> At the March 11 meeting of the Russian Security Council, Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu said the volunteers from the Middle East were ready to fight alongside Russian-backed forces in the breakaway Donbass region of eastern Ukraine.
> 
> "Many of them we know – they helped in the struggle with (Islamic State) in the most difficult time, in the past 10 years," said Shoigu, in an apparent reference to the Syria conflict.
> 
> (Reporting by Suleiman al-Khalidi in Amman, Laila Bassam and Tom Perry in Beirut, Phil Stewart and Idrees Ali in Washington, Guy Faulconbridge and Mark Trevelyan in London, Natalia Zinets in Lviv, and by Ron Popeski; Writing by Tom Perry; Editing by William Maclean)


Zelensky needs to just shut up with these empty threats. Nothing but a crisis actor hired by international Zog to serve Zog interests. 

But keep on sacrificing Ukrainian lives for Zog. 

Of course he’s stuck between a rock and a hard place now, he was just a puppet so I can’t fault him for that.

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## Paul2

iiowelo said:


> Europeans actually carved China up into zones of influence.
> 
> All you have is some empty bravado, no historical facts. You were only important for mongoloids, that's it.



Man, have you just come from outer space? Where do they breed psychiatry experiments like you?

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## The SC

Kyiv after the night bombings


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505796955221508097

Russian units advanced on the outskirts of Kyiv and the Nationalists retreated, abandoning armored vehicles and weapons. These weapons will be transferred to the republics of Donetsk and Lugansk - Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505790491618680833

Explosions off the coast of Odessa


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505787555484209155

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505666275929997319

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505653068549001220

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505558977999945736

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## jhungary

tower9 said:


> They are taking their time. Letting civilians out before they take them. It’s been three weeks. Wars can last for years. The Ukraine is a heavily populated and large country, second largest in Europe behind Russia. Stop believing the zog narrative, if you should know anything about those people, it’s that they are masters at smoke and mirrors.


Lol........

You take your time to deal with insurgency, you would want to complete the invasion as soon as possible. 

Because the less time and less damage you have done to the country, the less chance of insurgency that would happened. 

Also invasion is a resource intensive game, you would want to limit exposing your resource as much as possible.

If Russia fight for years to complete the invasion, then they will probably never getting out of Ukraine.....


----------



## tower9

jhungary said:


> Lol........
> 
> You take your time to deal with insurgency, you would want to complete the invasion as soon as possible.
> 
> Because the less time and less damage you have done to the country, the less chance of insurgency that would happened.
> 
> Also invasion is a resource intensive game, you would want to limit exposing your resource as much as possible.
> 
> If Russia fight for years to complete the invasion, then they will probably never getting out of Ukraine.....


We are three weeks in. Granted, there is a high chance of guerilla warfare, but it’s also clear the Ukrainian army is getting decimated.


----------



## Soldier35

The modernized Russian UAV Outpost-R struck the warehouses of Ukraine






Combat sortie of Russian Su-35 fighters in Ukraine. A pair of Su-35 fighters armed with R-73, R-77 short- and medium-range air-to-air missiles, as well as X-31P anti-radar missiles patrolled the airspace of Ukraine






Footage of the destruction of the Ukrainian T-64 tank by a Russian Ka-52 helicopter






The Ukrainian prototype of the Kevlar-E BMP was seen in the battles for Kharkov. The prototype of the Kevlar-E BMP was decided to be used in combat operations. In all likelihood, this machine exists in a single copy.


----------



## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> Well, it's kind of hard to do, I am medically discharged from the US military. I have a severely broken leg from a chopper crash I have sustained in Afghanistan, in short, I can't run. Which mean the chance I would be on the frontline is next to zero.



Man you are just too much, it never gets boring! 


Anyway, now that Selensky has refused to bow down to Russian ultimatum, from tactical point of view, what do you think about Mariupol resistance? How long can they resist it?

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## Bengal71

Madni Bappa said:


> Die Berliners paying $9 for a gallon of gas.
> 
> Americans are crying at $4.__ a gallon imagine paying $9.change for a gallon. Absolute madness, stupidity. Never in my life I paid more than $50 dollars to fill up. Now I'm paying $60-65. Absolutely crazy.



I am paying 130 AUD+ for 65 liters of petrol here in Aus. Consider yourself lucky.

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## jhungary

tower9 said:


> We are three weeks in. Granted, there is a high chance of guerilla warfare, but it’s also clear the Ukrainian army is getting decimated.


Well, I don't know if we are watching the same battlefield.

If Ukrainian army is getting decimated, then there should not be any defence left in major city. The fact is after nearly 4 weeks (3.5 now) and not one single major city felt to Russia itself means the Ukrainian defence is still holding. Back in Iraq, we would already be peeing on Saddam Palace in Baghdad right now.

Also, as times goes by, the training of TDF will be more mature, Then you are not looking at 200000 Regular Ukrainian troop, but people who sign up for TDF would be properly equip and properly trained. There are alreadys nearly 4 weeks of training, considering US Army Basic is only 9 weeks. And we are far from a complete Russian victory. Which mean the longer this war got drag on, the more Ukrainian defender can be put into the fray and armed with EU/American weapon. That mean as times goes on, Ukrainian defensive power increases, not decreases. That is why Russia only hope is to crush Ukraine ASAP.


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## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> Well, I don't know if we are watching the same battlefield.
> 
> If Ukrainian army is getting decimated, then there should not be any defence left in major city. The fact is after nearly 4 weeks (3.5 now) and not one single major city felt to Russia itself means the Ukrainian defence is still holding. Back in Iraq, we would already be peeing on Saddam Palace in Baghdad right now.
> 
> Also, as times goes by, the training of TDF will be more mature, Then you are not looking at 200000 Regular Ukrainian troop, but people who sign up for TDF would be properly equip and properly trained. There are always nearly 4 weeks of training, considering US Army Basic is only 9 weeks. And we are far from a complete Russian victory. Which mean the longer this war got drag on, the more Ukrainian defender can be put into the fray and armed with EU/American weapon. That mean as times goes on, Ukrainian defensive power increases, not decreases. That is why Russia only hope is to crush Ukraine ASAP.


so Ukraine getting their supply depots, fuel tanks and training camps hit while they can't do the same to Russia, makes them stronger. OK.

Russians bypassing and surrounding cities, and Ukrainians unable to come out and defeat the encirclement = Russian loss. OK.

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## NotSure

So the ukronazis were using the "shopping mall" in Kiev as an ammo depot for the 2S7 Pion 203mm heavy mortar system. It was hit with an Iskander and some of the ammo was spread around the impact site unexploded. One commentator even wrote on facebook: Remove the second picture! The russian propaganda will use it against us.

https://****/voenacher/12640
Secondary explosions:

https://****/informatsia_obstanovka/7646


----------



## gambit

serenity said:


> *Russians are using a lot of PGM* but maybe they don't have as many PGM as they ought to or would need to pull off as alternative to unguided bombing of massive swathes of land. This is both due to unwillingness to totally level entire cities via unguided bombing runs and because there is no need. They are doing exactly what you said, using PGMs on specific targets.


A lot of PGM? I doubt it. There are several issues regarding your comment.

For starter, how do you know when the enemy is finally defeated? You do not. It does not matter if it is 'dumb' or 'smart' bombs that you dropped on him. You will find some sources on the interweb that says something like 90 days worth of munition and that is fine, but most people misunderstood that 90 days figure. It means you bring the maximum amount of bombs your airplanes can deliver at their maximum capabilities in terms of sortie rates.

Example...If you deploy 10 bombers with each capable of 10 bombs and can generate 2 sorties per day, you calculate 90 days worth of bombs from that capability. Ten bombers with 10 bombs each equals to 100 bombs, now x2 sorties per day equals to 200 bombs, then 90 days worth of bombs. But if you deploy with 20 or 30 bombers, that 90 days worth of munition will increase because you have more bombers dropping bombs on any given day. Then at the same time, you have to constantly replenish that store as you fly and drop bombs. Whether you chose to deploy with 90, or 60, or just 10 days worth of munition is up to you. That 90 days is just a reasonable unofficial standard created to allow for unexpected events that may require you to drop more bombs.

So when you said 'a lot of PGM' it is meaningless. We do not know how many VKS jets are capable of delivering PGM. Back in Desert Storm, our F-16s have LANTIRN nav pods but not targeting pods, so our F-16 pilots were not qual-ed to drop PGM, even though there were plenty of laser guided munitions for the F-111s and F-15Es. So what does 'a lot of PGM' mean? If not enough VKS jets can deliver PGM at the right places, the PGM are not credible contributors to the war.

What if the VKS did not deployed with sufficient munition in the first place, regardless of dumb/smart bombs? Why not? Maybe because of bad intelligence and analyses? So now, because of tough Ukrainian resistance, the VKS have to husband its deployed munition stores. So even if we grant you 'a lot of PGM' argument, it looks like there is not enough of that 'a lot' to make the Ukrainians submit.

Now comes more serious issues/problems for the VKS...

Here is the standard progression of USAF/USN flight training...






Am willing to bet that most of the world's air forces, including your China, have the same. Not similar, but the same for those fortunate enough to be assigned to the 'fighter' class. That is also where you get to know what 9g feels like. Believe me on this one, 9g ain't pleasant. When I was on the F-111, it was capable of 5-6g. If you ever been on a rollercoaster, that is 3g. Now imagine x3.

Anyway...According to ground testimonies, the VKS day presence is tolerable, which by Desert Storm standard mean shiddy, meaning Ukrainian ground forces can handle it, *and that the VKS night presence is essentially non-existent.* You may not like my use of Desert Storm to apply to the VKS but unfortunately the most successful combat air force get to set the standards for the rest, including your China, to follow.

Even if we grant that the VKS have air superiority over Ukraine, what next? Apparently, nothing. The Ukrainian Air Force does not engage air-air but instead flew to attack Russian ground forces, leaving the VKS to attack Ukrainian ground forces who reported that they can handle it. In other words, Ukrainians soldiers told Ukrainian airmen that they can take on Russian airmen. Do you have any idea how embarrassing that is for any air force? It made the air superiority gained by the VKS meaningless. After Desert Storm, the Iraqi Army was bitter towards the Iraqi Air Force. But here in Ukraine, the Ukrainian soldiers told the Ukrainian Air Force that they will be fine, so go and attack the Russians.

For the USAF, low altitude is 0-10k ft, medium altitude is 10-30k, and high altitude is 30k plus. The higher the pickle altitude the less precise and accurate where the bomb will be. That mean the best altitude for precise and accurate bomb delivery is at low altitude, even with PGM. But since the VKS retreated up to medium altitude, clearly do not have much experience with PGM, and delivering dumb bombs at medium altitude, the survivability for Ukrainian ground forces increases. So why not tell the Ukrainian Air Force to attack Russian ground forces?



serenity said:


> I didn't know Ukraine Airforce is still operating.











Why hasn’t Russia mobilised its vast air power against Ukraine?


First six days of invasion have confounded expectations Russia would try to immediately destroy Ukraine’s air force.




www.aljazeera.com





Instead, Ukrainian air force fighter jets are still carrying out low-level, defensive counter-air and ground-attack sorties. Russia is still flying through contested airspace.​
Is there any wonder why the Ukrainian ground resistance have been so tough and so long? Because they do not have to worry about the VKS. Maybe 'do not' is exaggerated, but not much.

For Russian ground forces, every time they hear jets overhead, does anyone tell them it is a 'friendly'? If not, what do you think goes thru their minds and what they have to do next to try to survive?

So while in appearance that the VKS dominate Ukrainian airspace, the reality is that at best, the VKS have partial air superiority.




serenity said:


> You missed my point here with your reply. *It has nothing to do with China.*


But it does.

Now that we, meaning US and China, know that the VKS is essentially a third rate air force, that elevated the PLAAF/PLAN to the next level. How much night flying does the PLAAF/PLAN have?

Go back to the training progression chart above. Just because air-air is the top, it does not mean it is the last, it means that skill is the most difficult to train. For the USAF/USN, night and air-air training intermix whenever time permit. But the reality is that US airpower with jets have been flying night combat missions since the Korean War, with Desert Storm the most visually spectacular, so we are looking at 70 yrs of night experience. The PLA is no doubt analyzing the differences between with and without night combat missions in Ukraine. Does the PLAAF/PLAN have the same type of PGM like US, laser and radar? How often does the PLAAF/PLAN train with PGM and how realistic? Day and night? Remember, the standard is 70 yrs high. The next time anyone mocks US for not daring enough to take on a peer, I will remember Ukraine and laughs. One peer down, one to go.

The fact that the VKS does not conduct sufficient daytime sorties to suppress Ukrainian ground forces and is absent at night means China could supplement Russia in this regard. But why not? Sure, it could be for %100 political reasons and that would be legitimate. But what if it is because the PLAAF/PLAN do not have sufficient experience at both day and night to make a difference? That would surely be a bad sign.



serenity said:


> What I'm saying is when US went on adventurism, no one supplied US enemy.


Why not? But remember that China supplied North Viet Nam. So why not supplement Russia? You already promised you will save Russia economically. Why not militarily? What are you afraid of?



serenity said:


> Here Russia is fighting a nation several times larger, much more sophisticated than Vietnam (of the Vietnam war era), and constantly supplied by others. *If US was doing the war on Ukraine here instead of Russia, the USA would have lost similar numbers.* Of course US would plan things differently and not endanger their equipment quite as willingly and impatiently perhaps but that's because it would have the ability to sustain this war much more than Russia has. Russia's overall GDP and productivity is less than California's.


No, we would not. The Ukrainian Air Force would have been grounded on the first day. From the second day forward? See Desert Storm.


----------



## OldTwilight

jhungary said:


> Well, I don't know if we are watching the same battlefield.
> 
> If Ukrainian army is getting decimated, then there should not be any defence left in major city. The fact is after nearly 4 weeks (3.5 now) and not one single major city felt to Russia itself means the Ukrainian defence is still holding. Back in Iraq, we would already be peeing on Saddam Palace in Baghdad right now.
> 
> Also, as times goes by, the training of TDF will be more mature, Then you are not looking at 200000 Regular Ukrainian troop, but people who sign up for TDF would be properly equip and properly trained. There are alreadys nearly 4 weeks of training, considering US Army Basic is only 9 weeks. And we are far from a complete Russian victory. Which mean the longer this war got drag on, the more Ukrainian defender can be put into the fray and armed with EU/American weapon. That mean as times goes on, Ukrainian defensive power increases, not decreases. That is why Russia only hope is to crush Ukraine ASAP.



well , you can't win a defencsive war .... In WWII both Japan and Germeny were ultimatly beaten from the moment they counldnt carry successfull offensive opeation against their foes in their enemies land ( especially USA )

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## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> so Ukraine getting their supply depots, fuel tanks and training camps hit while they can't do the same to Russia, makes them stronger. OK.
> 
> Russians bypassing and surrounding cities, and Ukrainians unable to come out and defeat the encirclement = Russian loss. OK.


You do know they have supply depot, training station set up INSIDE Poland and Romania, right? Can Russia touch those? On the other hand, good luck for Russia try to resupply their troop when IC is blocked by Taiwan and Aluminium is blocked by Australia.

And lol, why would they need to come out and defeat the encirclement? In fact, only one city so far is "Surrounded" and that's Mariupol, and they still hold that after 25 days, and they were surrounded like since day 10 or something so.......And Russia lost 2 general trying to take it, If that is not sheer incompetence, then I don't know what is.



OldTwilight said:


> well , you can't win a defencsive war .... In WWII both Japan and Germeny were ultimatly beaten from the moment they counldnt carry successfull offensive opeation against their foes in their enemies land ( especially USA )


No, you can't win a defensive war, and I already said there are 80% chance Russia will conquer Ukraine.

The problem is, what next? Russia is going to face a long insurgency, do you think the Ukrainian would simply comply and accept Russia rule after they took Kyiv? The longer the war drag on, the more damage done to the city and the more Ukrainian family got torn apart by the Russian would mean a more strengthen insurgency. 

If they cannot defeat the Ukrainian in a timely fashion, the insurgency they are going to face is enormous, you don't need that much troop to invade a city, but you will need a lot of resource to keep occupation. Which is what Russia is going to have problem in, putting resource into Ukraine to quell the upcoming insurgency.


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505830385191686144


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## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> You do know they have supply depot, training station set up INSIDE Poland and Romania, right? Can Russia touch those? On the other hand, good luck for Russia try to resupply their troop when IC is blocked by Taiwan and Aluminium is blocked by Australia.
> 
> And lol, why would they need to come out and defeat the encirclement? In fact, only one city so far is "Surrounded" and that's Mariupol, and they still hold that after 25 days, and they were surrounded like since day 10 or something so.......And Russia lost 2 general trying to take it, If that is not sheer incompetence, then I don't know what is.


supply depots don't move weapons straight to the hands of Ukrainian soldiers. they need to be distributed to regional depots and then moved out into the field. isn't this common knowledge for a high ranking field officer like yourself? moving weapons straight from a Polish or Romanian depot to the hands of Ukrainian soldiers necessitates an obvious and easily targeted supply chain.

same for training camps. do we see Ukrainian men with guns crossing the border into Poland and then coming back out? No. In fact testimony on the ground says that men with weapons are prohibited from crossing borders. So what training camps in Poland?

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## SIPRA

Whatever may be the actual conditions of the Ukraine armed forces, in this war; their keyboard warriors, on PDF, are doing extremely well.

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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> Man you are just too much, it never gets boring!
> 
> 
> Anyway, now that Selensky has refused to bow down to Russian ultimatum, from tactical point of view, what do you think about Mariupol resistance? How long can they resist it?


Yes of course, I must have go back in time (back to 2015) and wrote this article then





__





War stories corner: Story 2- Not that Black Hawk Down


This is a true story, this is one of my war story and the last thing I did in battle, all dialogue was altered, well, simply I forgot what exactly had said, but the meaning were there, and the Name were withheld for Operational Security, and no, this story do not have Eric Bana, or Josh Hartnett...



defence.pk


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505831580127748098


----------



## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> supply depots don't move weapons straight to the hands of Ukrainian soldiers. they need to be distributed to regional depots and then moved out into the field. isn't this common knowledge for a high ranking field officer like yourself? moving weapons straight from a Polish or Romanian depot to the hands of Ukrainian soldiers necessitates an obvious and easily targeted supply chain.
> 
> same for training camps. do we see Ukrainian men with guns crossing the border into Poland and then coming back out? No. In fact testimony on the ground says that men with weapons are prohibited from crossing borders. So what training camps in Poland?


You are talking about supply route, not supply depot. Supply depot store supply. They don't distribute them.

And have a wild guess how many supply depot there are in Western Ukraine and care to venture a guess if the Russian got them all?? As long as Supply route is intact, supply WILL steadily flow into Ukraine into soldier hand, maybe not in the case of Mariupol, but anywhere else. And if we have to take one lesson out of the entire Vietnam war, is that no matter how much a country can interdict, you can NEVER completely taken out supply route. Otherwise we would have stave the Vietcong and win the Vietnam war.

As for Training, you do know Poland or Romania have weapon, right? They have their own military and they have their own weapon, I assume, and the fact is those weapon the US/EU gave have to go thru Poland and Romania, otherwise how do you think they are getting into Ukraine, fly them into Ukraine from the US or UK?? You don't need Ukrainian "Armed" men come in and come back out.


----------



## Apollon

tower9 said:


> We are three weeks in. Granted, there is a high chance of guerilla warfare, but it’s also clear the Ukrainian army is getting decimated.



So is the russian military. And Ukraine is constantly resupplied

The amusing thing is, that some dont understand the bigger picture. The west simply doesnt allow Russia to take Ukraine. This entire show damages Russia beyond repair. They gain nothing, bleed out and thats it.


----------



## OldTwilight

jhungary said:


> You do know they have supply depot, training station set up INSIDE Poland and Romania, right? Can Russia touch those? On the other hand, good luck for Russia try to resupply their troop when IC is blocked by Taiwan and Aluminium is blocked by Australia.
> 
> And lol, why would they need to come out and defeat the encirclement? In fact, only one city so far is "Surrounded" and that's Mariupol, and they still hold that after 25 days, and they were surrounded like since day 10 or something so.......And Russia lost 2 general trying to take it, If that is not sheer incompetence, then I don't know what is.
> 
> 
> No, you can't win a defensive war, and I already said there are 80% chance Russia will conquer Ukraine.
> 
> The problem is, what next? Russia is going to face a long insurgency, do you think the Ukrainian would simply comply and accept Russia rule after they took Kyiv? The longer the war drag on, the more damage done to the city and the more Ukrainian family got torn apart by the Russian would mean a more strengthen insurgency.
> 
> *If they cannot defeat the Ukrainian in a timely fashion, the insurgency they are going to face is enormous, you don't need that much troop to invade a city, but you will need a lot of resource to keep occupation. Which is what Russia is going to have problem in, putting resource into Ukraine to quell the upcoming insurgency.*


"The insurgency they are going to face " has nothing to "defeat the Ukrainian in a timely fashion" , example are Iraq and Afghanistan ...

IMO for russians is better to kill defenders in long war while the lines are clear rather than take cities in timely fashion and then have to deal with defender in a long term insurgency ...

by moving slowly , most of Ukrainian who have will to fight them , already take arms and join defensive lines and Russians are going to kill and decimate them in a classical war ...


----------



## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> Yes of course, I must have go back in time (back to 2015) and wrote this article then
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> War stories corner: Story 2- Not that Black Hawk Down
> 
> 
> This is a true story, this is one of my war story and the last thing I did in battle, all dialogue was altered, well, simply I forgot what exactly had said, but the meaning were there, and the Name were withheld for Operational Security, and no, this story do not have Eric Bana, or Josh Hartnett...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk



You are a good writer and should write a book.

Genre: Fiction, of course.

Who knows you are the next George R.R. Martin

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## Apollon

OldTwilight said:


> "The insurgency they are going to face " has nothing to "defeat the Ukrainian in a timely fashion" , example are Iraq and Afghanistan ...
> 
> IMO for russians is better to kill defenders in long war while the lines are clear rather than take cities in timely fashion and then have to deal with defender in a long term insurgency ...
> 
> by moving slowly , most of Ukrainian who have will to fight them , already take arms and join defensive lines and Russians are going to kill and decimate them in a classical war ...



You forgot that russia bleeds out economicly and is on brink of economic collapse and default


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505834875152183296


Apollon said:


> You forgot that russia bleeds out economicly and is on brink of economic collapse and default


$700 Millions is Paid daily by EU for Gas/OIL imports.


----------



## jhungary

OldTwilight said:


> "The insurgency they are going to face " has nothing to "defeat the Ukrainian in a timely fashion" , example are Iraq and Afghanistan ...
> 
> IMO for russians is better to kill defenders in long war while the lines are clear rather than take cities in timely fashion and then have to deal with defender in a long term insurgency ...
> 
> by moving slowly , most of Ukrainian who have will to fight them , already take arms and join defensive lines and Russians are going to kill and decimate them in a classical war ...


Actually it did.

The longer it take for the country to overturn a government, the shorter the time for the insurgency to defeat the occupation. case in point, look at US involvement in Vietnam and its subsequent insurgency and the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan and its subsequence insurgency with Mujahedeen

As for whether or not Russia is better to kill defender in long war, well, I would have to politely disagree with you. The longer the war drag on, the more time Ukrainian can post a more meaningful defence, you don't drag on an invasion unless you have to, because it give the defender time to consolidate their position. Which translate to more kinetic loss for the invader, Unless you are telling me the Russian fancy losing more people than they should, they are not going to look for a drawn out war. Every passing second you have more resource flow into Ukraine and Ukrainian are being armed and trained


----------



## coffee_cup

According to reports, Slovenian diplomats have come back to Kiev.

Is it a hint that Kiev might actually not be attacked after all?


----------



## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> You are a good writer and should write a book.
> 
> Genre: Fiction, of course.
> 
> Who knows you are the next George R.R. Martin


No, I am a good physicist, because apparently I have invented a time machine.

And yes, I wrote an article and pretended to be cripple 6 years ago to hopefully impress someone like you in 2022.

You make "ABSOLUTE SENSE" here. LOL


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505838345548701696


coffee_cup said:


> According to reports, Slovenian diplomats have come back to Kiev.
> 
> Is it a hint that Kiev might actually not be attacked after all?



They wish to. Last Night and today Kyiv been bombed.


----------



## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> No, I am a good physicist, because apparently I have invented a time machine.
> 
> And yes, I wrote an article and pretended to be cripple 6 years ago to hopefully impress someone like you in 2022.
> 
> You make "ABSOLUTE SENSE" here. LOL



I am serious man. You are a good writer and have very strong sense of imagination. Take it as a compliment and try your career as a writer. ;-)

Anyway back to topic at hand: Ukraine is complaining that 8 ships full of wheat/grain have gone missing. How does that happen?


----------



## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> I am serious man. You are a good writer and have very strong sense of imagination. Take it as a compliment and try your career as a writer. ;-)
> 
> Anyway back to topic at hand: Ukraine is complaining that 8 ships full of wheat/grain have gone missing. How does that happen?


I am serious too, I must be better than Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein put together, again, I apparently invented a time machine so I can go back in time to 2015 and write that article that were so "beautifully" written to so I can pretend to be a cripple in 2022 to impress the like of you.

LOL

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## 8888888888888

jhungary said:


> You can't force Vietnam to use Chinese payment system........I mean, why would they? They are not under sanction, and they can use SWIFT. That would be too much work to try to earn something that's not yours and then risking for a country that cannot pay.


Vietnam and Russia are allies. If Russia can't pay using using Swift than Vietnam will use the Chinese payment system because it is already trading a lot with China.


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## gambit

Hypersonic missiles. 

What a waste. Is there anything in Ukraine that regular weapons systems cannot reach? If no, then the hypersonic missile is a waste and nothing more than useless bravado. Might as well send in the Su-57 to try to drum up some propaganda material.


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## 8888888888888

coffee_cup said:


> According to reports, Slovenian diplomats have come back to Kiev.
> 
> Is it a hint that Kiev might actually not be attacked after all?


It's going to be attack once the South entrance has closed off.


----------



## comci

jamahir said:


> Wow ! Such freedom of expression in the West.


Freedom of expression/speech does not exists when it is too inconvenient for the West. Violiation of Freedom of expression/speech is only reserved to non-western/white countries.

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## jhungary

8888888888888 said:


> Vietnam and Russia are allies. If Russia can't pay using using Swift than Vietnam will use the Chinese payment system because it is already trading a lot with China.



Lol, what that have to do with being Allies? You are not talking about changing your lunch menu, you are talking about changing your entire Banking structure to accommodate a market just for Russia because it cannot use SWIFT. Do you even know how much undertaking that is? I am not even sure they can do that within a year or so.

Then you will also have to somehow open the production of those aluminium ore. That take upward of 5 years when the Australian did it, how long do you think the Vietnamese can do it when they are not just have to open them, but boosted to the level of How Australian are mining the ore to replace the Australian ore? In case you are wonder, that's 300%+ of what Vietnam produce at the moment....


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## 8888888888888

jhungary said:


> Lol, what that have to do with being Allies? You are not talking about changing your lunch menu, you are talking about changing your entire Banking structure to accommodate a market just for Russia because it cannot use SWIFT. Do you even know how much undertaking that is? I am not even sure they can do that within a year or so.
> 
> Then you will also have to somehow open the production of those aluminium ore. That take upward of 5 years when the Australian did it, how long do you think the Vietnamese can do it when they are not just have to open them, but boosted to the level of How Australian are mining the ore to replace the Australian ore? In case you are wonder, that's 300%+ of what Vietnam produce at the moment....


Doesn't matter, their government who are allies to Russia will demand a change. They are after all the Former N Vietnam government who won the Vietnam war and reunify Vietnam.


----------



## Vergennes

jhungary said:


> 5th General now Confirmed killed. That's 5 in less than 4 weeks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine Confirms Fifth Russian General Has Been Killed
> 
> 
> Photo Illustration by Luis G. Rendon/The Daily Beast/TwitterThe Ukrainian military claimed to have killed yet another Russian general, this time Lieutenant-General Andrei Mordvichev, making him the fifth to die so far in the conflict. Mordvichev, who led the 8th General Army of the Southern...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, for those who are interested, US lost 1 general for the entire 20 years campaign in Afghanistan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harold J. Greene - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that is from a Green on Blue job when a ANA open up on the base because he was denied leave from Eid
> 
> The last general killed before Greene is Maj. Gen. John A.B. Dillard Jr
> 
> Killed on May 12, 1970. In Central Highland, Vietnam.
> 
> And six US general officer killed during 10 years of Vietnam War
> 
> 
> fair enough



Also ;

Officials confirm death of senior Russian naval officer in Mariupol​
A deputy commander of Russia's Black Sea Fleet was killed in combat in the besieged port city of Mariupol during what Moscow calls its military operation in Ukraine, officials said Sunday.

“Captain 1st Rank Andrei Nikolayevich Paly was killed in the fighting to liberate Mariupol from Ukrainian Nazis,” the governor of Sevastopol Mikhail Razvozhayev said on Telegram.

Sevastopol is a port city in Crimea -- annexed by Moscow from Ukraine in 2014 -- and the base of Russia's Black Sea Fleet.


Paly was an “open and decent person” and “enjoyed great authority in the fleet”, Razvozhayev added.


Yekaterina Altabaeva, Sevastopol's lawmaker in the Russian upper parliamentary house, also confirmed the death.

“Sevastopol has suffered a heavy, irreparable loss,” Altabaeva said on Telegram, adding that Paly had died during “battles for the liberation of Mariupol from Nazis”.

There was no immediate confirmation from Russia's defense ministry.

Russia, which has been conducting a military operation in Ukraine since February 24, has insisted that its neighbour never join NATO, and has also called for its “demilitarization” and “denazification”.









Officials confirm death of senior Russian naval officer in Mariupol


A deputy commander of Russia's Black Sea Fleet was killed in combat in the besieged port city of Mariupol during what Moscow calls its military operation




english.alarabiya.net

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## Avicenna

tower9 said:


> NATO is an anti-Russian military alliance. They want to take Ukraine, part of the historic Russian homeland, and place weapons, troops, missiles there. Right in their heartland.
> 
> Think with your head for one fucking minute. None of this sounds like a bad idea to you? Maybe when this dangerous country tells us repeatedly for 15 years that this is a red line, maybe, just maybe they mean it?



You are savage with the truth you've been spitting.

No damn common sense amongst the parrots here.

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## jamahir

comci said:


> Freedom of expression/speech does not exists when it is too inconvenient for the West. Violiation of Freedom of expression/speech is only reserved to non-western/white countries.



Generally yes. I say generally because for example the anti-Capitalist Occupy movements in the Western bloc in 2011 in which so many White people participated was also sabotaged by the Western bloc governments.

Also, who is the pretty girl in your profile picture ? Though she needs to fatten up a bit.


----------



## Vergennes

Russian soldiers ? Just a bunch of bums and looters.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505845269560180736
Bennett: Russia no longer wants to replace Zelensky or demilitarize Ukraine​
Prime Minister Naftali Bennett stated that the Russians are no longer demanding the removal of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky nor the complete demilitarization of Ukraine, adding that there is "still a long way to go" in mediating between Russia and Ukraine, at Ynet's "People of the State" conference on Monday.

Bennett added that Ukraine was also no longer demanding to join NATO.

"We will continue together with our other friends in the world to try to bridge [between the sides] to put an end to the war, this is the best thing that can happen," added the prime minister.









Bennett: Russia no longer wants to replace Zelensky


The prime minister stated that Ukraine was also no longer demanding to join NATO.




www.jpost.com

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## jhungary

8888888888888 said:


> Doesn't matter, their government who are allies to Russia will demand a change. They are after all the Former N Vietnam government who won the Vietnam war and reunify Vietnam.


Sure, i am pretty sure since Russia demand a change, Vietnam can open their ore mine in superhuman speed, bam, the drill went in, bam, the Bauxite come out and then bam, the entire Vietnamese Banking System switch to CIPS, and bam Russia got their ore, no delay or what so ever....

I am pretty sure it will end this way.



Vergennes said:


> Also ;
> 
> Officials confirm death of senior Russian naval officer in Mariupol​
> A deputy commander of Russia's Black Sea Fleet was killed in combat in the besieged port city of Mariupol during what Moscow calls its military operation in Ukraine, officials said Sunday.
> 
> “Captain 1st Rank Andrei Nikolayevich Paly was killed in the fighting to liberate Mariupol from Ukrainian Nazis,” the governor of Sevastopol Mikhail Razvozhayev said on Telegram.
> 
> Sevastopol is a port city in Crimea -- annexed by Moscow from Ukraine in 2014 -- and the base of Russia's Black Sea Fleet.
> 
> 
> Paly was an “open and decent person” and “enjoyed great authority in the fleet”, Razvozhayev added.
> 
> 
> Yekaterina Altabaeva, Sevastopol's lawmaker in the Russian upper parliamentary house, also confirmed the death.
> 
> “Sevastopol has suffered a heavy, irreparable loss,” Altabaeva said on Telegram, adding that Paly had died during “battles for the liberation of Mariupol from Nazis”.
> 
> There was no immediate confirmation from Russia's defense ministry.
> 
> Russia, which has been conducting a military operation in Ukraine since February 24, has insisted that its neighbour never join NATO, and has also called for its “demilitarization” and “denazification”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Officials confirm death of senior Russian naval officer in Mariupol
> 
> 
> A deputy commander of Russia's Black Sea Fleet was killed in combat in the besieged port city of Mariupol during what Moscow calls its military operation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> english.alarabiya.net


Nah, it's a captain, it didn't count, that's a common rank, they lost about 8 colonel and captain by now 

And yes, I am being sarcastic


----------



## dBSPL

There was a shopping mall here. Now there is only debris.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505792748196184065

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## Vergennes

jhungary said:


> Sure, i am pretty sure since Russia demand a change, Vietnam can open their ore mine in superhuman speed, bam, the drill went in, bam, the Bauxite come out and then bam, the entire Vietnamese Banking System switch to CIPS, and bam Russia got their ore, no delay or what so ever....
> 
> I am pretty sure it will end this way.
> 
> 
> Nah, it's a captain, it didn't count, that's a common rank, they lost about 8 colonel and captain by now
> 
> And yes, I am being sarcastic



Following Russia funboys logic "Russian generals and high ranking staff are so courageous they are fighting on the frontline with their soldiers compared to western ones who stay far away from the battlefield they are scared!!".

I answered "how do you expect supervision and guidance of troops on the ground when their officers are decimated ?" You are going to find yourself with soldiers that do not know what to do,where to go etc.

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## dBSPL

Vergennes said:


> Bennett: Russia no longer wants to replace Zelensky or demilitarize Ukraine​
> Prime Minister Naftali Bennett stated that the Russians are no longer demanding the removal of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky nor the complete demilitarization of Ukraine, adding that there is "still a long way to go" in mediating between Russia and Ukraine, at Ynet's "People of the State" conference on Monday.
> 
> Bennett added that Ukraine was also no longer demanding to join NATO.
> 
> "We will continue together with our other friends in the world to try to bridge [between the sides] to put an end to the war, this is the best thing that can happen," added the prime minister.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bennett: Russia no longer wants to replace Zelensky
> 
> 
> The prime minister stated that Ukraine was also no longer demanding to join NATO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com


These are not enough. They should abandon the annexation of Crimea.


----------



## comci

jamahir said:


> Generally yes. I say generally because for example the anti-Capitalist Occupy movements in the Western bloc in 2011 in which so many White people participated was also sabotaged by the Western bloc governments.
> 
> Also, who is the pretty girl in your profile picture ? Though she needs to fatten up a bit.



The pretty girl in my profile picture is for now unreachable

😁

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505848551544221696

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## NotSure

dBSPL said:


> There was a shopping mall here. Now there is only debris.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505792748196184065


Shopping mall my ***, it was a depot for BM-21, 2S7 heavy arti etc. And they have even fired the Grads directly from the parking lot and the ukrops posted it on tik tok, full of proud. And then received an Iskander as an answer.

https://****/istorijaoruzija/46698
The same with the retard legion aka reddit legion, posting their geotagged shit all over the internet, using their mobile phones with uk +44 numbers etc. and got located by russian drones.



NotSure said:


> So the ukronazis were using the "shopping mall" in Kiev as an ammo depot for the 2S7 Pion 203mm heavy mortar system. It was hit with an Iskander and some of the ammo was spread around the impact site unexploded. One commentator even wrote on facebook: Remove the second picture! The russian propaganda will use it against us.
> 
> https://****/voenacher/12640
> Secondary explosions:
> 
> https://****/informatsia_obstanovka/7646


Here is the answer, why russia isn't destroying the electric grid in Kiev etc. With all the social media retards they have thousands of active spies inside every ukr city.

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## Apollon

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505848551544221696



Ukraine should stop negotiate, its just bullshit from russia anyways. Its better to strive for complete russian defeat and cripple their military ability to wage war. UK agrees on that. Kick Russia out, destroy their forces and then negotiate reparations.


----------



## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> Following Russia funboys logic "Russian generals and high ranking staff are so courageous they are fighting on the frontline with their soldiers compared to western ones who stay far away from the battlefield they are scared!!".
> 
> I answered "how do you expect supervision and guidance of troops on the ground when their officers are decimated ?" You are going to find yourself with soldiers that do not know what to do,where to go etc.


Well, in a way, they are right.

Russian General was not the one that in charge of this war, Putin is, so they are probably useless, like a throw away.

otherwise there are no way it can account of the sheer incompetence of Russian troop if Russian general is involved....


----------



## Wood

Apollon said:


> Ukraine should stop negotiate, its just bullshit from russia anyways. Its better to strive for complete russian defeat and cripple their military ability to wage war. UK agrees on that. Kick Russia out, destroy their forces and then negotiate reparations.


Tactical retreat is not complete defeat. There are a lot of civilians still stuck in the city. Russians may escalate


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505849195835449344
Wait a minute, pro-Russian sources were saying it will climb to 500?

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## Apollon

Wood said:


> Tactical retreat is not complete defeat. There are a lot of civilians still stuck in the city. Russians may escalate



I know but Russia cant be allowed to exist in this form any longer. Prime target must be deputinisation. We cant allow this rabid regime to exist. It has to be crushed like hitlerism.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505727865849102346The Russian dock landing ship Orsk unloaded military equipment in the port of Berdyansk.


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## Apollon

Germany now constructs its own hypersonic weapon 









Auch Deutschland will die Hyperschall-Rakete


Moskau hat mittlerweile mehrmals seine Hyperschall-Rakete vom Typ "Kinschal" eingesetzt. Die USA, China, Nordkorea testeten Hyperschallwaffen bisher nur. Könnte eine "Neuauflage des Mittelstreckenwettrüstens" der 80er-Jahre kommen? Und welche Projekte gibt es in Deutschland?




www.google.com


----------



## gambit

Apollon said:


> I know but Russia cant be allowed to exist in this form any longer. *Prime target must be deputinisation.* We cant allow this rabid regime to exist. It has to be crushed like hitlerism.


When we see a news lady bold enough to get on live TV and protest with a sign saying 'propaganda', either the Russian people are brave from being foolish or brave because they know they have the numbers.


----------



## Apollon

gambit said:


> When we see a news lady bold enough to get on live TV and protest with a sign saying 'propaganda', either the Russian people are brave from being foolish or brave because they know they have the numbers.



That we have a hitleresque regime like this in 2022 is unimaginable. I know there are russians who fight against this


----------



## dBSPL

Zelensky's latest propaganda video. I don't think this is the right propaganda method.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505583211702886411

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> So what does TeRrorisT TV want to say ? That just like Saddam's soldiers in Kuwait the Russians will come into the bunkers and throw the babies out of their cradles ? So what is stopping the great Mr. Fighter-For-Freedom-And-Democracy Zelensky from talking to the Russians and evacuating those babies out of Ukraine ?



Why do you support a criminal regimes imperialist war against a weaker neighbor?


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Why do you support a criminal regimes imperialist war against a weaker neighbor?



Why do *you* support Zelensky whose puppeteer masters / criminal regimes in the West have long been waging imperialist wars against small, weaker countries ? Has been happening since 1950 at least.

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## gambit

Apollon said:


> That we have a hitleresque regime like this in 2022 is unimaginable. I know there are russians who fight against this


A revolution always get attention and one major reason is because governments needs to know, or have an educated guess, that who they will have to deal with when the revolution is over. But that Russia is a nuclear weapons state, and that we cannot attack Russia directly, that leave the de-Putinization process to the Russian people. What if there is a revolution, city by city, and Poutine decides to lash out at his own people, even to the point of going nuclear inside Russia? Or even outside Russia? DC, London, Paris, just to name a few?


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505857934642884611

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505858136304988160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505858280198918152

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505851755401293832

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## dBSPL

jamahir said:


> So what does TeRrorisT TV want to say ?


The illegitimate son of soviet-era indoctrination talks about something, again, look... That terrorist channel is by far the international media organization that publishes the most articles on the Indian Muslim community in the world While, RT, Ria Novosti did the opposite.. 

If the terrorist accusation can be so easily made, someone would easily see a troll like you living in an alternate reality as nothing more than a Russian ball-licking dog. Be carefull on your words.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505860957418967043


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505866525936398343


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## jamahir

dBSPL said:


> Please stop spamming the forum. And stop accusing nations and institutions of fictitious things just because they share opinions and information. Dont spread political or nationalistic hate, dont use social issues for inciting political hatred, stay away Indoctrination and Baiting. All are written at forum rules.



Spamming the forum is you and your three friends : one French, one German and one American.

And I reported your foul post.


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## dBSPL

jamahir said:


> Spamming the forum is you and your three friends : one French, one German and one American.
> 
> And I reported your foul post.


You can report all messages. No problem. I am one of the members of this forum who writes the most about how rotten NATO is. Damn Erdogan too... To whom and how have I reacted so far about these... My message history is clear...

My only reaction is that my nation and values were attacked in violation of forum rules. Your sick mindset and obsessions may be on a clinical level. However, this does not in any way authorize you to break the forum rules. And if you start insulting and humiliating, someone respond in the same way. It's that simple. @LeGenD @waz

If the Forum Mods don't warn against your vile attacks, I'll already have a clear idea of the quality here and reconsider to being here.


----------



## Foinikas

WELL LOOK AT THAT!

Russians: There are American labs in Ukraine
Americans: There are no labs in Ukraine
Russians: We have proof that American labs in Ukraine are researching biological weapons
Americans: That's just Russian propaganda
Russians: Here's the proof
Americans: Haha Russians are lying again,don't believe them,they invaded Ukraine they are evil
Russians: We're getting the labs
Americans:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501300844649615362

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## jhungary

Foinikas said:


> WELL LOOK AT THAT!
> 
> When Russians kept saying they have proof of American labs in Ukraine,it was all "Russian propaganda". Now suddenly...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501300844649615362


That was really old news.

She said US have biological RESEARCH facilities with Ukraine, not BIOWEAPON facilities in Ukraine.

American have lab EVERYWHERE, including Russia and China, the most famous one is in Wuhan, yes, the same place where the COVID started in 2019.

Those lab was constantly monitored by WHO.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505856790579269633

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## Foinikas

jhungary said:


> That was really old news.
> 
> She said US have biological RESEARCH facilities with Ukraine, not BIOWEAPON facilities in Ukraine.
> 
> American have lab EVERYWHERE, including Russia and China, the most famous one is in Wuhan, yes, the same place where the COVID started in 2019.
> 
> Those lab was constantly monitored by WHO.


Should I feel safe just because WHO is monitoring them?

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## jhungary

Foinikas said:


> Should I feel safe just because WHO is monitoring them?


Either that or you should feel not safe because it is everywhere.

They are like Pizza Huts, there are always one near you.


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## Foinikas

jhungary said:


> Either that or you should feel not safe because it is everywhere.
> 
> They are like Pizza Huts, there are always one near you.


Well then,scratch a few off the map. Russia's taking over them.

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## thetutle

iiowelo said:


> Israel occupies Al Aqsa, the third holiest mosque in Islam. That is the root of the conflict.
> 
> 
> I talked about Bosnians getting a good deal from the Serbs. So you have no problem with the way Serbs treated you?


Is it? Saudi Arabia seems to have no problem with it. They are establishing relations. that mosque has always changed hands and it will change hands again. Problem to me seems more the millions of palestiaisny without a country. 

We got a good deal from the serbs. They treated us the way Russians treat people and thats why I would prefer to be with the west. Our history with the serbs seems like a utopian paradise comparing to the people that have had to live with russia.


----------



## Wood

German energy minister says that a deal has been made with Qatar to help with gas shortfall

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## Foinikas

thetutle said:


> Is it? Saudi Arabia seems to have no problem with it. They are establishing relations. that mosque has always changed hands and it will change hands again. Problem to me seems more the millions of palestiaisny without a country.
> 
> We got a good deal from the serbs. They treated us the way Russians treat people and thats why I would prefer to be with the west. Our history with the serbs seems like a utopian paradise comparing to the people that have had to live with russia.


That was the SOVIET UNION. Stalin was Georgian. Kruschev favored Ukraine a bit. ALL people of the Soviet Union suffered.
All of them. Russians,Ukrainians,Estonians,Armenians,Azeris,Kazakhs...Christians AND Muslims.

It was communism.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505872094537596933

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## jhungary

Foinikas said:


> Well then,scratch a few off the map. Russia's taking over them.


Well, it really wouldn't even matter. 

Plus those are no where near the Russian right now, those lab are in University District, the closest one is in Kharkiv, Other are in Kyiv, Lviv and probably Odessa.


----------



## comci

Apollon said:


> Compared to Singapore or Frankfurt...yes it is.



How old are you?


----------



## Foinikas

comci said:


> How old are you?


He's 19

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## jamahir

dBSPL said:


> You can report all messages. No problem. I am one of the members of this forum who writes the most about how rotten NATO is. Damn Erdogan too... To whom and how have I reacted so far about these... My message history is clear...
> 
> My only reaction is that my nation and values were attacked in violation of forum rules. Your sick mindset and obsessions may be on a clinical level. However, this does not in any way authorize you to break the forum rules. And if you start insulting and humiliating, someone respond in the same way. It's that simple. @LeGenD @waz
> 
> If the Forum Mods don't warn against your vile attacks, I'll already have a clear idea of the quality here and reconsider to being here.



You present a confusing image of yourself. I have always spoken against Erdogan *and never against Turkey* ( read the second paragraph in this post of mine from yesterday ) and this should be clear to anyone yet you react strangely.

@LeGenD @waz, normally I don't tag mods but report posts using the official way but since dBSPL tagged you I too want you to be the witnesses.



gambit said:


> A revolution always get attention and one major reason is because governments needs to know, or have an educated guess, that who they will have to deal with when the revolution is over. But that Russia is a nuclear weapons state, and that we cannot attack Russia directly, that leave the de-Putinization process to the Russian people. What if there is a revolution, city by city, and Poutine decides to lash out at his own people, even to the point of going nuclear inside Russia? Or even outside Russia? DC, London, Paris, just to name a few?



Well, the Russian Communist part supports the Putin government in the Special Military Operation so if your CIA and MI6 want to do a color revolution in Russia you will have to face opposition from the Communists as well.

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## thetutle

letsrock said:


> Very interesting - muslims must be grateful because they were not wiped out like American Indians? that is your standard for gratitude ? I suppose thats why you are so sympathtic to nazis because they directly did not kill your ancestors when they could have done so. what logic really.
> 
> Soviets indeed absorbed occupied lands because they saw them as equal peoples. infact soviet policy encouraged inter-marriage between russians and other nationalities. No signs of "dogs and indians/blacks/irish" not allowed.


Don't misrepresent me. Muslims always got a far worse deal from russia which included genocide and eradication even of the existence of whole muslim civilisations. The west gave muslims 50 independent states. Some with terrible dictators and yes when they tried to get rid of those dictators, may muslims saw this as a war against islam. Because presumably muslims should not be allowed to have democracy?

Nazis were not nice people. they hurt the jews and gypsies in my part of the world. bad bad. I like gypsies. They treated my people quite well. as they did many others in Europe and Middle East. They also totally destroyed all our enemies and freed us of some pig eating Serbian king who had ruled Bosnia for 20 miserable years. Good riddance to him. 

a nazi dictator was replaced by a communist dictator. I dont know who was worse. Noone got a vote on choosing the dictator. Communists killed more Bosnians than nazis. so hmmmm. 

All we want is democracy and freedom. Much like Ukrainians. Is it too much to ask?

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## dBSPL

Violation of the inviolability of property
Looting and theft

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505845269560180736


----------



## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> That was really old news.
> 
> She said US have biological RESEARCH facilities with Ukraine, not BIOWEAPON facilities in Ukraine.
> 
> American have lab EVERYWHERE, including Russia and China, the most famous one is in Wuhan, yes, the same place where the COVID started in 2019.
> 
> Those lab was constantly monitored by WHO.



Question to you:

Are the pentagon sponsored bio weapon facilities always marked as "BIO WEAPON" labs? 

I guess you are smart enough to figure that one out,

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## SuvarnaTeja

jhungary said:


> Also, there is a common denomination bettween Taliban, AlQueda and ISIS, care to tell me what that is?



West creating Islamist forces to bring down governments and nations opposing their Diktats.

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## thetutle

Foinikas said:


> That was the SOVIET UNION. Stalin was Georgian. Kruschev favored Ukraine a bit. ALL people of the Soviet Union suffered.
> All of them. Russians,Ukrainians,Estonians,Armenians,Azeris,Kazakhs...Christians AND Muslims.
> 
> It was communism.


I am also talking about historically how the Russians treated ukranians and everyone else. Communists were bad but it was just more of the same. And now its russia again, the killing and oppression continues.


----------



## dBSPL

I don't know if the claim to hit another ship from Ukraine has been shared before. But the threat of this type of asymmetrical attack serves as a warning about what a possible Odessa landing operation may face.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505806931071488003


----------



## Wood

dBSPL said:


> I don't know if the claim to hit another ship from Ukraine has been shared before. But the threat of this type of asymmetrical attack serves as a warning about what a possible Odessa landing operation may face.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505806931071488003


Will the suicide drones have the range to attack ships when they are within their engagement range? I don't think Ukraine has shore based anti ship missiles.


----------



## Foinikas

thetutle said:


> I am also talking about historically how the Russians treated ukranians and everyone else. Communists were bad but it was just more of the same. And now its russia again, the killing and oppression continues.


Ukrainians were Rus',it's like Serbs and Montenegrins. They weren't treated like trash. I know we ain't gonna agree,but at least you can admit that things got bad when Nationalists appeared in the early 20th century and especially when Stalin started the whole collectivization thing in Ukraine.



dBSPL said:


> I don't know if the claim to hit another ship from Ukraine has been shared before. But the threat of this type of asymmetrical attack serves as a warning about what a possible Odessa landing operation may face.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505806931071488003


How do you shoot down a military ship?


----------



## SuvarnaTeja

Type59 said:


> Watch this sky news analysis. If accurate, it means many Ukrainian units entrenched themselves in Maripul from mechanised infantry, marines and Azov forces. The capturing of the city means thousands of well trained soldiers will be lost.
> 
> Time will tell, if Ukrainian decision to stand and fight in Maripul was wise. They tied down alot of Russian forces, but at expense of losing well trained formations.




West is shrewd.

They are fighting the war in the eastern part using Russian speaking people as Human shields.

Russia army cannot go full throttle on the Ukrainian forces for this reason.


----------



## jamahir

thetutle said:


> All we want is democracy and freedom. Much like Ukrainians. Is it too much to ask?



LOL, like the Iraqis, Libyans and Syrians got freedom and democracy.


----------



## dBSPL

Wood said:


> Will the suicide drones have the range to attack ships when they are within their engagement range? I don't think Ukraine has shore based anti ship missiles.


Delivery of the Neptune missiles was scheduled to begin in April. Russia started the invasion before these deliveries started, and the first targets it hits are military factories. In other words, it is very unlikely that Ukraine will have a useful number of ASMs. Mini-drones are also unable to damage ships without a saturating attack, and the amount of explosive they can carry cannot affect more than a few navionics of the ship. The third method is artillery saturation. However, if Russia is to launch a landing operation, it will heavily bombard (with airforce) the city first. Still, there are a few asymmetrical methods that Ukraine can use.



Foinikas said:


> How do you shoot down a military ship?


It's nearly impossible to sunk a ship with these type attacks, but if the mast is effectively hit, the ship should return to base.

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## monitor



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## comci

jhungary said:


> A few years ago, I was. Not sure about you. And I could if I wanted, a few of my Ukrainian friend asked me to go, and i was even send one of those form for Foreign Legion. Whether or not I will take up that offer is up to me tho. I will not tell you or anyone would I go.
> 
> Plus it's quite clear I am not a Z supporter.


You should go to Ukrain and record and upload your beautiful Ukrain battles on TikTok based on your decades of war experiences. I will be the first one to subscribe to your channel.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505890571864391686

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505871986442096647

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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> Question to you:
> 
> Are the pentagon sponsored bio weapon facilities always marked as "BIO WEAPON" labs?
> 
> I guess you are smart enough to figure that one out,


Well, were all "Girls, Girls, Girls" strip joint??



comci said:


> You should go to Ukrain and record and upload your beautiful Ukrain battles on TikTok based on your decades of war experiences. I will be the first one to subscribe to your channel.


At least spell "UKRAINE" right for pete sake.

By the way, I did have a youtube channel. 

called ASMR by Comci


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505890344927436808


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505890756598411266


----------



## Type59

Madni Bappa said:


> Die Berliners paying $9 for a gallon of gas.
> 
> Americans are crying at $4.__ a gallon imagine paying $9.change for a gallon. Absolute madness, stupidity. Never in my life I paid more than $50 dollars to fill up. Now I'm paying $60-65. Absolutely crazy.



Same situation here, Boris is milking invasion too make himself look tough.


----------



## Amliunion

There was no relief a week before - but Western maps kept the hope alive by showing wrong maps.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505890379614281732

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505890385184370693


----------



## SuvarnaTeja

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505856790579269633


West's true colors on Freedom of expression, Freedom of press and Human Rights are coming out in the open.

Western propaganda machine is dying.

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## dBSPL

monitor said:


> View attachment 825961


Nonsense. Turkey does not apply any grants other than humanitarian aid and medical aid. Military-grade drones and associated munitions are a paid service, not aid.


----------



## Paul2

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Typically, the northern empires always direct their attention westward if we simply are too strong to deal with, like how Xiongnu ran away from Han and attacked Rome instead.



No, it wasn't like that. Xiongnu had a civil war, and one half of their tribes exterminated the other. Survivors then spend decades recovering, and going West, looting every nation in their way, until they reached Europe, and there were almost nothing left of them.

Bulgarians, Alans, Balkars, Magyars, etc Mongolised Aryan nations are their descendants.

Han in the past rarely fought barbarians. Much more often, we made them fight each other. That generally worked, with some exceptions. I.E. supporting Wang Khan was the most fatal miscalculation, and led to rise of modern Mongols.

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## Type59

tower9 said:


> It’s gonna cost $300 to fill up a F250 pretty soon



Well, people should have bought a more economical car. Unless you work as a gardener or construction then why do you need a big car? 

People have mentality, big car gets you more respect.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505890980284801024


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## thetutle

SuvarnaTeja said:


> West's true colors on Freedom of expression, Freedom of press and Human Rights are coming out in the open.
> 
> Western propaganda machine is dying.


Treason cant be called free expression.


----------



## Meengla

A very interesting interview in which the guy is saying *if Biden administration wants, it could freeze China's Dollar denominated assets 'with the flick of a pen' because money would eventually have to be cleared through New York City*. No country's assets are safe! The Arabs, the Chinese, the Indians, and indeed we have seen a demonstration of the American monetary power against Russia. It is simple: If you don't follow our suggestions then even your legit money is no more!

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505895768208588801


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505896759138074631


----------



## thetutle

Meengla said:


> A very interesting interview in which the guy is saying *if Biden administration wants, it could freeze China's Dollar denominated assets 'with the flick of a pen' because money would eventually have to be cleared through New York City*. No country's assets are safe! The Arabs, the Chinese, the Indians, and indeed we have seen a demonstration of the American monetary power against Russia. It is simple: If you don't follow our suggestions then even your legit money is no more!


Dollar accounts in the whole world have to clear through New York. I did not know that. thats is a very powerful tool.

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## Paul2

gambit said:


> A revolution always get attention and one major reason is because governments needs to know, or have an educated guess, that who they will have to deal with when the revolution is over. But that Russia is a nuclear weapons state, and that we cannot attack Russia directly, that leave the de-Putinization process to the Russian people. What if there is a revolution, city by city, and Poutine decides to lash out at his own people, even to the point of going nuclear inside Russia? Or even outside Russia? DC, London, Paris, just to name a few?



If I were Biden, I would've went for first strike in the first minutes of the conflict to:

Not let nuclear C&C get into actual "serious military mode"
Catch staging forces in the field off guard
Biden is a genuinely weak in all (dis)respects leader

Sometimes he just look, for lack of other words, confused — something which is lethal at war

The moment you lose track of the enemy strategy, you lose an ability to counter it


----------



## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> Well, were all "Girls, Girls, Girls" strip joint??


So the answer is "NO".

There you go. The day Pentagon / CIA started to clarily mark their confidential projects for the purpose they were started, I guess both organizations will cease to exist.

Here, some of their projects have been found and ofcourse they will try refute it. No rocket science.


----------



## SuvarnaTeja

thetutle said:


> Treason cant be called free expression.



Expressing one's opinion is considered treason in the West?

RIP freedom of expression.


----------



## mmr

Wood said:


> German energy minister says that a deal has been made with Qatar to help with gas shortfall


Instead of buying more gas need to focus on green tech.

Its not long term solution keep burning oil and gas

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## SuvarnaTeja

Meengla said:


> A very interesting interview in which the guy is saying *if Biden administration wants, it could freeze China's Dollar denominated assets 'with the flick of a pen' because money would eventually have to be cleared through New York City*. No country's assets are safe! The Arabs, the Chinese, the Indians, and indeed we have seen a demonstration of the American monetary power against Russia. It is simple: If you don't follow our suggestions then even your legit money is no more!



All US Dollars in the world belong to the US.

It is time all countries return all the US dollars to the US and use their local currencies instead.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505897177847148549

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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> So the answer is "NO".
> 
> There you go. The day Pentagon / CIA started to clarily mark their confidential projects for the purpose they were started, I guess both organizations will cease to exist.


You don't get it.......don't you?

If I want to bring a brick of cocaine over airport security, I would not wrap it up like a brick and call it "Butter" This is a classic "This is not butter" argument.

If I were to start an illegal Bio Weapon Lab, you can bet millions to donut that I will not use a Biological Research Lab as cover. This is like the first place you look.

It's like you want to start an illegal gun running business out of a legitimate gun store, which regular checks was performed.........


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505899936713428992


----------



## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> You don't get it.......don't you?
> 
> If I want to bring a brick of cocaine over airport security, I would not wrap it up like a brick and call it "Butter" This is a classic "This is not butter" argument.
> 
> If I were to start an illegal Bio Weapon Lab, you can bet millions to donut that I will not use a Biological Research Lab as cover. This is like the first place you look.
> 
> It's like you want to start an illegal gun running business out of a legitimate gun store......



And where would you research it instead? In a meat shop?

Of course you need to have all the equipment, material which is required for biological research. You cant possibly put that in the butcher shop. There is a very thin line between a legit biological research for medicine purpose or the same research for destructive purposes (WMD).

The presence of such bio labs with sponsorship of Pentagon is far more credible evidence than what US provide to the UNO about Iraqi WMD.

There should at least be some serious investigation about it sponsored by the UNO instead of outright taking the US or Russian line. Do you agree?

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## Meengla

Colonel Macgregor saying 'NATO-ization' of Ukraine had already happened and that the hypersonic missile destroying a Ukrainian facility, killing many, was a message to NATO. Otherwise, according to the Colonel, Russia doesn't have much interest in western Ukraine because of the ethnic composition there. Also I get a feeling that the Colonel has sources inside Ukraine and/or Russia. He is also a whistle-blower!

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## Vergennes

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505897177847148549



Funny though that it is only reported by dubious Russian sources,most likely BS. Just like that Canadian sniper who magically sneaked in Mariupol (that's supposed to be encircled from everywhere!) and somehow was killed 20 minutes after getting into battle.

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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> And where would you research it instead? In a meat shop?
> 
> Of course you need to have all the equipment, material which is required for biological research. You cant possibly put that in the butcher shop. There is a very thin line between a legit biological research for medicine purpose or the same research for destructive purposes (WMD).
> 
> The presence of such bio labs with sponsorship of Pentagon is far more credible evidence than what US provide to the UNO about Iraqi WMD.
> 
> There should at least be some serious investigation about it sponsored by the UNO instead of outright taking the US line.
> 
> You are smarter than that,


You do know there are a lot of different front that work just as well but was not this dubious.

For started a mid size Hospital would be a better cover, how often was hospital being checked by WHO or Red Cross? or even an animal hospital. To private offsite lab that you don't even know it exist.

The important issue is Legit Bio Lab is a publicly registered place, you cannot operate dubious business in there without catching suspicion.

Oh, don't get me wrong, Pentagon were researching Biological Weapon, but it wouldn't be inside a publicly registered lab. That's probably the dumbest idea there was.


----------



## SuvarnaTeja

jhungary said:


> You don't get it.......don't you?
> 
> If I want to bring a brick of cocaine over airport security, I would not wrap it up like a brick and call it "Butter" This is a classic "This is not butter" argument.
> 
> If I were to start an illegal Bio Weapon Lab, you can bet millions to donut that I will not use a Biological Research Lab as cover. This is like the first place you look.
> 
> It's like you want to start an illegal gun running business out of a legitimate gun store, which regular checks was performed.........



The correct analogy is a tobacco shop selling marijuana.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505869113528406024

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## jhungary

SuvarnaTeja said:


> The correct analogy is a tobacco shop selling marijuana.


Well, pot are legal in the State.....so, that analogy wouldn't work.

Would have said operate a brothel inside an escort agency, but then both of them are legal here. So............


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505890756598411266

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> You do know there are a lot of different front that work just as well but was not this dubious.
> 
> For started a mid size Hospital would be a better cover, how often was hospital being checked by WHO or Red Cross? or even an animal hospital. To private offsite lab that you don't even know it exist.
> 
> The important issue is Legit Bio Lab is a publicly registered place, you cannot operate dubious business in there without catching suspicion.
> 
> Oh, don't get me wrong, Pentagon were researching Biological Weapon, but it wouldn't be inside a publicly registered lab. That's probably the dumbest idea there was.



So do you agree that this claim has to be investigated independently by UNO to get the truth out? 

Or do you expect from the world just to take US or Russian word on that (depending on which side they normally tilt)?


----------



## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> So do you agree that this claim has to be investigated independently by UNO to get the truth out?
> 
> Or do you expect from the world just to take US or Russian word on that (depending on which side they normally tilt)?


Biological Program in general? Yes

Were there Biological Program in Ukraine? No.

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## Wood

Vergennes said:


> Funny though that it is only reported by dubious Russian sources,most likely BS. Just like that Canadian sniper who magically sneaked in Mariupol (that's supposed to be encircled from everywhere!) and somehow was killed 20 minutes after getting into battle.


.. but it is suspicious that there is no update from the Sniper these days while he was active in social media before.


----------



## dBSPL

Some sources have just started reporting that Russian warplanes have breached Polish airspace. Soon, the widely shared twitter accounts here may also start tweeting about this issue.

I don't think Poland can afford to shoot down a Russian plane. However, unless they shot one of them, Russian planes could continue to harass Polish airspace/control.

Russia had tried this game elsewhere before.

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## Meengla

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505869113528406024



I think the Ukrainian Defense Minister is about right. Mariupol is very important for Ukraine. But I think once Russia feels like enough civilians have left the city then I fear MAJOR destruction is coming to Mariupol. So sad.


----------



## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> Biological Program in general? Yes
> 
> Were there Biological Program in Ukraine? No.



Let me get it straight: You do NOT want that the bio labs sponsored by the Pentagon in Ukraine be investigated at all?

And the world should just take US word on that?

(Just like WMD case in Iraq?)

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## SuvarnaTeja

dBSPL said:


> Some sources have just started reporting that Russian warplanes have breached Polish airspace. Soon, the widely shared twitter accounts here may also start tweeting about this issue.
> 
> I don't think Poland can afford to shoot down a Russian plane. However, unless they shot one of them, Russian planes could continue to harass Polish airspace/control.
> 
> Russia had tried this game elsewhere before.



NATO has been building up troops for the last couple weeks. 

Now that they are ready they just need to find an excuse to enter the war.

The title of this thread needs to be changed to NATO-Russian war.


----------



## Clutch

mmr said:


> Instead of buying more gas need to focus on green tech.
> 
> Its not long term solution keep burning oil and gas



Thats what the word transition means. Green energy isn't reliably and economically available yet. 

So Europe would need to supplement the loss of Russian gas with some other reliable source in the interim. 

The energy mix is about diversification of intermittent green energy with other energy vectors such as hydrogen and/or its derivatives ammonia, electrification etc. Solar, wind, hydro are still not a 1 for 1 replacement for hydrocarbons.


----------



## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> Let me get it straight: You do NOT want that the bio labs sponsored by the Pentagon in Ukraine be investigated at all?
> 
> And the world should just take US word on that?
> 
> (Just like WMD case in Iraq?)



Let me ask you this, should we investigate Chinese Lab for the accusation of they are making COVID as a weapon??

It's not about taking someone's words, this is about the need to investigate. If there are going to be investigation, then they are conducted by the same people who would have visited those lab as a regular basis anyway. So what do you expect them to find when they cannot find during the regular visit anyway?

On the other hand, the accusation is ridiculous to be exact. why would Ukraine make their own Bio weapon with US help? If US is willing to help, wasn't it cheaper and more deniable to buy directly from US and use them?

And finally, in case you have not notice, Inspector did found Chemical Weapon (Chemical Weapon is a WMD) stockpile in Iraq, yes they are expired, but before you say it was harmless, maybe you should tour the location without wearing any protective clothing?









The Secret Casualties of Iraq’s Abandoned Chemical Weapons (Published 2014)


The Pentagon kept silent as munitions left over from Saddam Hussein’s war with Iran found new targets from 2004 to 2011: American and Iraqi troops.




www.nytimes.com


----------



## dBSPL

SuvarnaTeja said:


> NATO has been building up troops for the last couple weeks.
> 
> Now that they are ready they just need to find an excuse to enter the war.
> 
> The title of this thread needs to be changed to NATO-Russian war.


NATO has repeatedly stated that it will not go to war 'directly'. The general secretary gave almost a guarantee. I do not agree with you on this. Because in this case, it creates the environment that Russia desires.


----------



## Clutch

SuvarnaTeja said:


> The title of this thread needs to be changed to NATO-Russian war.



It seems to be that way with every growing day... Just like the 1980s Afghan Russia-American war where Afghanistan was just the staging ground and Pakistan the launching pad.

They have just replaced Afghanistan with Ukraine, Pakistan with Poland, USSR with Russia, and America now includes rest of NATO.

History may not exactly repeat itself. However, it surely rhymes.... I think it was Mark Twain who said this.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505815443340156930


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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505904610870968326

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> Let me ask you this, should we investigate Chinese Lab for the accusation of they are making COVID as a weapon??
> 
> It's not about taking someone's words, this is about the need to investigate. If there are going to be investigation, then they are conducted by the same people who would have visited those lab as a regular basis anyway. So what do you expect them to find when they cannot find during the regular visit anyway?
> 
> On the other hand, the accusation is ridiculous to be exact. why would Ukraine make their own Bio weapon with US help? If US is willing to help, wasn't it cheaper and more deniable to buy directly from US and use them?
> 
> And finally, in case you have not notice, Inspector did found Chemical Weapon (Chemical Weapon is a WMD) stockpile in Iraq, yes they are expired, but before you say it was harmless, maybe you should tour the location without wearing any protective clothing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Secret Casualties of Iraq’s Abandoned Chemical Weapons (Published 2014)
> 
> 
> The Pentagon kept silent as munitions left over from Saddam Hussein’s war with Iran found new targets from 2004 to 2011: American and Iraqi troops.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com



No please do not make very long statements.

Just answer this:

The case:
There is a very very serious allegation by Russia that the Pentagon sponsored bio labs were researching deadly bio weapons of mass destruction in Ukraine.

This is very serious.

Question:

Do you want this to be investigated by independent institutions acceptable to all parties so that we get to the real truth?

Yes or No?

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## SuvarnaTeja

dBSPL said:


> NATO has repeatedly stated that it will not go to war. The general secretary gave almost a guarantee. I do not agree with you on this. Because in this case, it creates the environment that Russia desires.



Those statements were made only to show that they were the victims who got dragged into the war.

No one takes NATO's statements seriously.

NATO has been training and equipping Ukrainians, sending Special Ops teams into Ukraine while building up the forces all along Russian borders.

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## Meengla

The latest map per NY Times. It's interesting the completed red circle means 'taken by Russians'. I thought Kherson has not fallen yet.

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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> No please do not make very long statements.
> 
> Just answer this:
> 
> The case:
> There is a very very serious allegation by Russia that the Pentagon sponsored bio labs were researching deadly bio weapons of mass destruction in Ukraine.
> 
> This is very serious.
> 
> Question:
> 
> Do you want this to be investigated by independent institutions acceptable to all parties so that we get to the real truth?
> 
> Yes or No?


No, Because that would undermine the international authority.

Now, your turn, Just answer this

The case: 

there is a very serious allegation of China weaponizing flu virus and made COVID

Do you want this to be investigated by independent institutions acceptable to all parties so that we get to the real truth?

Yes or No?


----------



## Meengla

dBSPL said:


> NATO has repeatedly stated that it will not go to war 'directly'. The general secretary gave almost a guarantee. I do not agree with you on this. *Because in this case, it creates the environment that Russia desires.*



You seem to think Russia desires a direct war against NATO?


----------



## Clutch

dBSPL said:


> NATO has repeatedly stated that it will not go to war. The general secretary gave almost a guarantee. I do not agree with you on this. Because in this case, it creates the environment that Russia desires.



War has this uncontrollable unpredictable element that even those engaged in it do not know how things will devolve. Once you unleash the dogs of war, all bets are off.... 

That is why wars are never the answer. The world had become complacent with the one sided "limit" war where the world "enjoyed" bombing impotent weak Muslim nations "into the stone age" without any serious consequences beyond the borders of those lands.... This Ukraine-Russia is different. And they know it.

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## Vergennes

SuvarnaTeja said:


> NATO has been training and equipping Ukrainians, sending Special Ops teams into Ukraine while building up the forces all along Russian borders.



NATO's buildup along Russian borders isn't surely because of Russia's actions (like the illegal anexation of Crimea) and threatening day and night baltic states...


----------



## alimobin memon

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505904610870968326


Well they are

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505737586551181319
Seems like Russians are not in the mood for urban warfare in Kiev. They will just stand outside and try to grind the capital to dust with artillery. I hope that the news arms from Pentagon will help Ukraine defend against this foe that is beyond reach for Ukrainian troops in capital.

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## SuvarnaTeja

Vergennes said:


> NATO's buildup along Russian borders isn't surely because of Russia's actions (like the illegal anexation of Crimea) and threatening day and night baltic states...



NATO has been building up for the last 20 years through NATO expansion.

I am talking about the build up in the last few weeks.

NATO had a plan all along to enter into a direct war with Russia.


----------



## jhungary

@coffee_cup Are you going to answer my question?


----------



## dBSPL

Meengla said:


> You seem to think Russia desires a direct war against NATO?


If one side acting over proxy elements, warfare mostly be devastating for opponent side. Right now, as Russia facing devastating attrition, the real counter-threat is gathering strength.


----------



## Meengla

From Jpost.com and I think the Israelis are well placed to receive credible information and progress. Looks like some kind of outline of a compromise already in place. Plus, as I had said pages before, Iran is being yanked away from the Russia/China block. America has LOTS of tools!

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> No, Because that would undermine the international authority.
> 
> Now, your turn, Just answer this
> 
> The case:
> 
> there is a very serious allegation of China weaponizing flu virus and made COVID
> 
> Do you want this to be investigated by independent institutions acceptable to all parties so that we get to the real truth?
> 
> Yes or No?



Absolutely. It is a serious allegation and should be investigated by neutral parties acceptable to all so that we get to the truth.

See, I am not hypocrite like you and have no problem at all demanding same from friends what I demand from others. And after this, please NEVER, I repeat, NEVER come up with any moral lessons for the world. You have absolutely no moral authority.

(Apart from being self-appointed world sherif to bully others of course).

I just wonder why would China or ANY other powerful country would ever want to do what the hypocritical countries lecture them to do?

Only some unlucky 3rd world country with some carbon, mineral deposits, which will get invaded otherwise, will HAVE to listen to you. LOL

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## Wood

Former Ukrainian President on MSNBC!


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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> Absolutely. It is a serious allegation and should be investigated by neutral parties acceptable to all so that we get to the truth.
> 
> See, I am not hypocrite like you and have no problem at all demanding same from friends what I demand from others. And after this, please NEVER, I repeat, NEVER come up with any moral lessons for the world. You have absolutely no moral authority.
> 
> (Apart from being self-appointed world sherif to bully others of course).
> 
> I just wonder why would China or ANY other powerful country would ever want to do what the hypocritical countries lecture them to do?
> 
> Only some unlucky 3rd world country with some carbon, mineral deposits, which will get invaded otherwise, will HAVE to listen to you. LOL


Well, then you need to talk to WHO, not me

And you are not "neutral", you are selective about the circumstance. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see you are just patronizing my question.

And at least I took side. Now go tell the Chinese they should accept Australia and US demand and let WHO inspect their lab. Really, you should go tell them that if you want to claim you are not a "Hypocrite"


----------



## Vergennes

Soldiers from the "second world's most powerful army" continue to liberate Ukrainian stores from Ukrainian Neo Nazis and protecting food and drinks.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505891138095435781

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## Meengla

dBSPL said:


> If one side acting over proxy elements, warfare mostly be devastating for opponent side. Right now, as Russia facing devastating attrition, *the real counter-threat is gathering strength.*



I don't know what you mean by 'counter-threat' but I don't think Russia will want a direct conflict against NATO and vice versa. While NATO should fear a nuclear Armageddon, otherwise Russia is no match for NATO. Not at all. 
We need to watch Mariupol closely and perhaps Odessa after that.

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## Vergennes

Ukrainian paratroopers continue to liberate villages in the Mikolayiv area,Russian troops are hiding in kindergartens.


----------



## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> Well, then you need to talk to WHO, not me
> 
> And you are not "neutral", you are selective about the circumstance. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see you are just patronizing my question.



I wanted YOUR personal opinion to see where you stand when it comes to bring the truth out.

I got it now, you are just interested in spreading one sided propaganda without even caring to find the real truth (or too scared to be prosecuted if you did provide your honest opinion, we both know how great "freedom of expression" is in the West). 

Carry on, do your job... keep spreading propaganda! 



Meengla said:


> From Jpost.com and I think the Israelis are well placed to receive credible information and progress. Looks like some kind of outline of a compromise already in place. Plus, as I had said pages before, Iran is being yanked away from the Russia/China block. America has LOTS of tools!
> 
> View attachment 825990



So are we going to get a good news soon that the war has finally ended?

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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> I wanted YOUR personal opinion to see where you stand when it comes to bring the truth out.
> 
> I got it now, you are just interested in spreading one sided propaganda without even caring to find the real truth. Carry on, do your job... keep spreading propaganda!


I don't mind spreading propaganda as long as I am not a hypocrite.

Well......I don't support China being investigated, and I don't support Ukraine being Investigated. So if you called taking the Ukrainian side is spreading Propaganda, then I guess taking Chinese side also make me spread Chinese Propaganda, eh?

But hey, that's what I see

By the way, I have screenshoted that, it will come up again sooner or later


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505913731066257409

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505914744255004677

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## comci

jhungary said:


> Well, were all "Girls, Girls, Girls" strip joint??
> 
> 
> At least spell "UKRAINE" right for pete sake.
> 
> By the way, I did have a youtube channel.
> 
> called ASMR by Comci



You have a Comci youtube channel? Ohh how nice of you. Can you remove'''Comci trademark''. If not i will sue you for copyright infringement


----------



## Wood

Saw this on MSNBC











Proposal to rebuild Ukraine with Russian gas money and reserves?

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## Dustom999

coffee_cup said:


> Let me get it straight: You do NOT want that the bio labs sponsored by the Pentagon in Ukraine be investigated at all?
> 
> And the world should just take US word on that?
> 
> (Just like WMD case in Iraq?)


He knows everything about bio weapons as well. You know how? He was there and Pentagon keeps him loop on every global event even now. 
You know why he was there, because while he was saving uncle Sam's *** in Iraq and Afghanistan as a stone cold marine ) or was it intelligence officer) he managed to learn genetics and that too, better than scientists who have been doing it for 50 years of life. 
He knows because he is smarter than multiple Phds in gene editing. 
He knows the labs in Ukraine weren't involved because he is an expert on Crispr, infact he himself first came up with and idea of cutting and patching DNA strands.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jhungary

comci said:


> You have a Comci youtube channel? Ohh how nice of you. Can you remove'''Comci trademark''. If not i will sue you for copyright infringement


Don't think you have the IP right of Comci.

Unless you are a girl who talked softly


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505915129346600963

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505915534487048192
US assesses that Russia is directly targeting civilians in desperation attempt to turn the war in their favor

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Foinikas

Vergennes said:


> Funny though that it is only reported by dubious Russian sources,most likely BS. Just like that Canadian sniper who magically sneaked in Mariupol (that's supposed to be encircled from everywhere!) and somehow was killed 20 minutes after getting into battle.


And where is he then? Is he alive?

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## Ich

jhungary said:


> Let me ask you this, should we investigate Chinese Lab for the accusation of they are making COVID as a weapon??



The Lab was in Wuhan, yes. But inside the Lab there were US-pharmaceutic-firms "working" who rent this Lab. There are even pictures of Frauci visiting this Lab in Wuhan.


----------



## Foinikas

Vergennes said:


> Soldiers from the "second world's most powerful army" continue to liberate Ukrainian stores from Ukrainian Neo Nazis and protecting food and drinks.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505891138095435781


I remember French soldiers helping themselves to vodka,food and warm clothes during their capture of Moscow in 1812.


----------



## jhungary

Dustom999 said:


> He knows everything about bio weapons as well. You know how? He was there and Pentagon keeps him loop on every global event even now.
> You know why he was there, because while he was saving uncle Sam's *** in Iraq and Afghanistan as a stone cold marine ) or was it intelligence officer) he managed to learn genetics and that too, better than scientists who have been doing it for 50 years of life.
> He knows because he is smarter than multiple Phds in gene editing.
> He knows the labs in Ukraine weren't involved because he is an expert on Crispr, infact he himself first came up with and idea of cutting and patching DNA strands.


And you are the dude who post some photo and "Supposed" to be a cadet lol

Where are the tanks, APC? Mate, I gave you a cruiser and a seahawk helicopter. And you give me a bunch of dude and a trophy. LOL, that spell sausages fest, not cadet..... 

Talking about fake...


----------



## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> I don't mind spreading propaganda as long as I am not a hypocrite.
> 
> Well......I don't support China being investigated, and I don't support Ukraine being Investigated. So if you called taking the Ukrainian side is spreading Propaganda, then I guess taking Chinese side also make me spread Chinese Propaganda, eh?
> 
> But hey, that's what I see
> 
> By the way, I have screenshoted that, it will come up again sooner or later



There was a specific question, for a specific situation. Pentagon sponsored Bio Weapon labs in Ukraine should be investigated by UNO so that the world can get to know the truth.

You are all over the place. Please NEVER ever think to change profession to become a lawyer, you are gonna get kicked out of the court and banned for life by the judge for contempt of court after first appearance if you ever try to argue like that.

LOL.

As I said, please continue spreading one sided propaganda. I have never seen you criticizing US or NATO for their countless illegal wars around the world. And I dont think I will ever see you demanding war crime investigations for them either.

so yep... go on...

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## jhungary

Ich said:


> The Lab was in Wuhan, yes. But inside the Lab there were US-pharmaceutic-firms "working" who rent this Lab. There are even pictures of Frauci visiting this Lab in Wuhan.


So, should we go into the Wuhan Lab and see if there are US Pharma "working" inside??


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505916784242839555
Deliveries from the new $800M package have not yet begun

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Meengla

coffee_cup said:


> So are we going to get a good news soon that the war has finally ended?



I hope so! I think Mariupol is the key. I think Russia will conquer that city and then either ask for a ceasefire or go for Odessa to cut off Ukraine's sea access. The rest, except the Donbas region, is just smoke screen.


----------



## Primus

I have a question for both @jhungary and @comci 


What the f-ck is comci?


----------



## Paul2

Meengla said:


> You seem to think Russia desires a direct war against NATO?



No, but Ukraine surely looked like an ideal raiding target, if not to say "seductively plumpy" as a prey. 40 million people, giant industry (comparatively to Russia,) arms, and military hardware factories, double digit of Europe's grain, sea access, lots of "nobrainer" business opportunities like hauling drugs to EU.... and virtually no army for country of such size.

Russia never ever attacked a stronger enemy in a few hundred years as my knowledge of history tells. Russia got our Northeastern lands without firing a shot, through trickery. British did the shooting, and Russia did the landgrab.

It been very predictable in conquering 50+ independent nations over the last 3 centuries. They only fight "free" wars, with zero chance of enemy turning the table, either through allied treaties (WW1, Persia, Balkans, China,) or having the "run away before the winter comes" card in the pocket if the invasion fails.

And natoified Ukraine — a prey turning predator overnight is indeed complete breakdown of the plan, and the overall political system.

It's very much like Japs made them a new one in 1905, and they jumped into WW1 because Moscow was desperate to save the "scary russian bear" image.

I am completely not convinced with Putin-Hitler analogy. Putin is no Hitler, he thinks completely differently. He is more like a financial professional, or better say "hostile takeover artist."

Military-wise, I simply see no analogies whatsoever, he is a man outside of that domain. I see not a single piece of military strategy he ever executed besides "grab all troops, and dump them there"

A more befitting analogy, I think, will be with Dongbei gang bros. Tatooed fatties, loud, scare showoff guys who tax granny traders, and call themselves triads.

When they finally get themselves into trouble, and run into real Canto mafia, they start to sweat profusely, shout, scream, shoot their gun in the air, only to be taken out without noise, and further ceremonies. And then, they disappear.

And after this happens, they will be out of the town for the next 2-3 years for sure.

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## comci

Huffal said:


> I have a question for both @jhungary and @comci
> 
> 
> What the f-ck is comci?



you should ask Jhungary. He is the EXPERT.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> There was a specific question, for a specific situation. Pentagon sponsored Bio Weapon labs in Ukraine should be investigated by UNO so that the world can get to know the truth.
> 
> You are all over the place. Please NEVER ever think to change profession to become a lawyer, you are gonna get kicked out of the court and banned for life by the judge for contempt of court after first appearance if you ever try to argue like that.
> 
> LOL.
> 
> As I said, please continue spreading one sided propaganda. I have never seen you criticizing US or NATO for their countless illegal wars around the world. And I dont think I will ever see you demanding war crime investigations for them either.
> 
> so yep... go on...


Why? Haven't I have already told you we see you as dirt? And that might is right??









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Who said that Ukraine is winning the war? They are fighting back and inflicting losses on invading forces. Observers are rather surprised and intrigued. Russian advances aren't fluid either. Fighting is very intense in some locations. Russians suffered setbacks in some locations while...



defence.pk





I mean how would I be a hypocrite when I believe on those theory (Which is true by the way) and I stick by it. I would be a hypocrite if I DID NOT STICK by those value.

Dude, you have some memory issue.....


----------



## mili

jhungary said:


> Well, then you need to talk to WHO, not me
> 
> And you are not "neutral", you are selective about the circumstance. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see you are just patronizing my question.
> 
> And at least I took side. Now go tell the Chinese they should accept Australia and US demand and let WHO inspect their lab. Really, you should go tell them that if you want to claim you are not a "Hypocrite"


Time to wake up dude, WHO already investigated Chinese lab twice.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505913610148716555

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505914494110908421

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505914868641243145


----------



## jhungary

comci said:


> you should ask Jhungary. He is the EXPERT.


Expert of what? ASMR?



mili said:


> Time to wake up dude, WHO already investigated Chinese lab twice.


Think he is talking about some private impartial organisation, he called for a UNO investigation, whatever that mean.

And by the way, I still think they should not have investigated by WHO, if they were indeed looked at it.


----------



## Dustom999

U


jhungary said:


> And you are the dude who post some photo and "Supposed" to be a cadet lol
> 
> Where are the tanks, APC? Mate, I gave you a cruiser and a seahawk helicopter. And you give me a bunch of dude and a trophy. LOL, that spell sausages fest, not cadet.....
> 
> Talking about fake...


Uncle just come to ghaziabad, even autowalas will beat the shit out of ur overburdened brain! Then you will become better human being. Consider it yogic cleansing ( whatever the duk that is)

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ich

jhungary said:


> So, should we go into the Wuhan Lab and see if there are US Pharma "working" inside??



You dont need. It all was already in the media.









Dr. Anthony Fauci Tells CNN Funding China’s Wuhan Lab Research Was Necessary


Dr. Anthony Fauci, under attack for his role in funding research at a laboratory many suspect of being the cause of the worldwide coronavirus pandemic, defended his actions Sunday on CNN’s St…




deadline.com


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505876638076215299

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## jhungary

Dustom999 said:


> U
> 
> Uncle just come to ghaziabad, even autowalas will beat the shit out of ur overburdened brain! Then you will become better human being. Consider it yogic cleansing ( whatever the duk that is)


Dude, that did not excuse the fact you said you have "Substantial" combat experience in an active border, and all you show me is a few dude with a trophy, then you go ahead and accuse me of being a fake.......

Dude, at least my photo have a god damn Battleship in the background........


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505919409227018248


----------



## bobo6661

Foinikas said:


> I remember French soldiers helping themselves to vodka,food and warm clothes during their capture of Moscow in 1812.


Wow your old man ...
From what i read russian made scorched land tactic during that time so there was nothing for French to loot


----------



## jhungary

Ich said:


> You dont need. It all was already in the media.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr. Anthony Fauci Tells CNN Funding China’s Wuhan Lab Research Was Necessary
> 
> 
> Dr. Anthony Fauci, under attack for his role in funding research at a laboratory many suspect of being the cause of the worldwide coronavirus pandemic, defended his actions Sunday on CNN’s St…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> deadline.com


I hope to god they do then.

Dude, do you know how much these research is going to cost? A team of Scientist alone would have cost more than millions of dollar (going by the rate of junior medical research specialist pay around $120,000 a year) If Fauci rally do able to do that with a 650,000 grant. Then good on him, we should give him more money for more research, he is saving our money on Bio Weapon development.


----------



## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> Why? Haven't I have already told you we see you as dirt? And that might is right??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> Who said that Ukraine is winning the war? They are fighting back and inflicting losses on invading forces. Observers are rather surprised and intrigued. Russian advances aren't fluid either. Fighting is very intense in some locations. Russians suffered setbacks in some locations while...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean how would I be a hypocrite when I believe on those theory (Which is true by the way) and I stick by it. I would be a hypocrite if I DID NOT STICK by those value.
> 
> Dude, you have some memory issue.....



Dude, first of all: Who is this "We"?

You are a Vietnamese who is somehow naturalized. I bet the average Americans see you as "dirt" as well. So land back on earth.

Second: Why dont you keep that line? That you are a hypocrite and believe in "Might is Right". Why keep changing it every few posts?

In some posts you are "well yeah, we did all the war crimes, because we could" and few posts later you are all morals and ethics and "I am not hypocrite" and God knows what.

Why do I get a feeling that you are paid per post? LOL

You are one confused soul!


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505919546150031362

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505919740274954241

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> Dude, first of all: Who is this "We"?
> 
> You are a Vietnamese who is somehow naturalized. I bet the average Americans see you as "dirt" as well. So land back on earth.
> 
> Second: Why dont you keep that line? That you are a hypocrite and believe in "Might is Right". Why keep changing it every few posts?
> 
> In some posts you are "well yeah, we did all the war crimes, because we could" and few posts later you are all morals and ethics and "I am not hypocrite" and God knows what.
> 
> Why do I get a feeling that you are paid per post? LOL
> 
> You are one confused soul!


We as in everyone. Dude, even if I am a Vietnamese, I live in the West, I earn much more money than you. So yes, we mean people in the west.

And you want to come prosecute me? Ha!! You on what order?

And apparently, English is not your strong suit either, you should go get a dictionary and seek out the meaning of Hypocrite.

hypocrite​ noun
Save Word
To save this word, you'll need to log in.
Log In 

hyp·o·crite | \ ˈhi-pə-ˌkrit \
Definition of _hypocrite_​
1*: *a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2*: *a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

Since when did I do either of the definition. I don't put a false appearance of virtual or religion. And I never contradict to what I state or believe. Believing Might is Right is not being a hypocrite. If I say I don't believe in Might (Which as you can see, I never as I always see I am better than you) then I am a Hypocrite.....

Dude, you probably need to learn some English too....
LOL.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505920674312998913

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505920997127598082


----------



## Dustom999

jhungary said:


> Dude, that did not excuse the fact you said you have "Substantial" combat experience in an active border, and all you show me is a few dude with a trophy, then you go ahead and accuse me of being a fake.......
> 
> Dude, at least my photo have a god damn Battleship in the background........


You're a nobody to be shown anything! 
I posted that pic from my National defence academy days( nearly 21 years ago) while I was taking about crying west Point cadets, crying in simple map reading exercises under cadets exchange program between usa and indian National defence academy.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Foinikas

Look at the Anti-tank weapons they got! That's a lot of stuff there!


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505920301183426568


----------



## Dustom999

jhungary said:


> We as in everyone. Dude, even if I am a Vietnamese, I live in the West, I earn much more money than you. So yes, we mean people in the west.
> 
> And you want to come prosecute me? Ha!! You on what order?
> 
> And apparently, English is not your strong suit either, you should go get a dictionary and seek out the meaning of Hypocrite.
> 
> LOL.


And now the ex- ranger, navy seal, commando, diver, gunner, intelligence officer think ( just by the fancy of his imagination) that some one on net talking to him makes less money!

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jhungary

Dustom999 said:


> You're a nobody to be shown anything!
> I posted that pic from my National defence academy days( nearly 21 years ago) while I was taking about crying west Point cadets, crying in simple map reading exercises under cadets exchange program between usa and indian National defence academy.


Dude, you show me a photo of 6 dude crouching together, it could have been anywhere. It could have been your mother basement for all I know, How do I know that was National Defence Academy? Did it say anywhere? If I take a picture on my backyard, then can I say it was the rose lawn in the white house??


----------



## Amliunion

Vergennes said:


> Funny though that it is only reported by dubious Russian sources,most likely BS. Just like that Canadian sniper who magically sneaked in Mariupol (that's supposed to be encircled from everywhere!) and somehow was killed 20 minutes after getting into battle.



Lmao. His Video is also available wherein he ran to Poland.


----------



## gambit

Paul2 said:


> If I were Biden, I would've went for first strike in the first minutes of the conflict to:
> 
> Not let nuclear C&C get into actual "serious military mode"
> Catch staging forces in the field off guard
> *Biden is a genuinely weak in all (dis)respects leader
> 
> Sometimes he just look, for lack of other words, confused *— something which is lethal at war
> 
> The moment you lose track of the enemy strategy, you lose an ability to counter it


Joe Bidet is in mental decline. A neighbor is a retired nurse and in her final career yrs, she worked with hospice patients. She is a centrist Democrat. When the country was still in semi-lockdown after Bidet was elected, we enjoyed a few beers outside our houses. We did not masked and stood close for conversation like normal people. She told me that Bidet exhibited all the symptoms of someone in early mental decline, from the short stepping gait to squinting eyes. She said the squinting eyes gave him away, that is when the patient still have full mental faculties but strains to concentrate to focus. She believes that Bidet is on drugs to help him focus and that his wife Jill is essentially guilty of elder abuse for letting Bidet continue as is.

People must suffer their leaders and policies, and currently, the US is suffering Bidet. For all my yrs of political awareness, and I lived thru the mid to late 1970s Saudi oil embargo against US, I have never seen the country went thru so many negative changes in one yr. COVID is no excuse. Bidet is in mental decline that made him weak against political stresses, especially from ideologues inside the Democratic Party. As stresses from political issues mounts, Bidet's physical being will accelerate his decline. As time passes, the odds of a catastrophic event increases. If whatever drugs Bidet is taking fails, that catastrophic event will do serious damage to the US. Anything from loss of concentration in front of other world leaders, or something worse like heart failure, qualifies as a catastrophic event. The context of 'catastrophic' here is the point of no return. So if Bidet lost concentration in front of world leaders and/or the global public, how do we know he had not other events in private? We do not. The press once covered for Roosevelt's wheelchair and then Kennedy's various physical ailments. Today, they covered for Bidet's son Hunter's life as a drug addict and exploiter of the family name. So they are covering for Bidet's mental decline now.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> We as in everyone. Dude, even if I am a Vietnamese, I live in the West, I earn much more money than you. So yes, we mean people in the west.
> 
> LOL.



LOL. Whatever man.

Keep entertaining us with your imaginations about postings around the world and all the first hand experiences .
=====================================


Back to topic:

German defense minister says Germany has at this moment no plans to build hypersonic weapons.

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## Ich

jhungary said:


> I hope to god they do then.
> 
> Dude, do you know how much these research is going to cost? A team of Scientist alone would have cost more than millions of dollar (going by the rate of junior medical research specialist pay around $120,000 a year) If Fauci rally do able to do that with a 650,000 grant. Then good on him, we should give him more money for more research, he is saving our money on Bio Weapon development.



Bullshit! Corona is SARS-Cov 2. The US experimented with SARS-COV 1 in Wuhan and suddenly there was the first SARS-COV 2 outbreak in Wuhan. The same US do in other Labs with different viruses over the whole world, e.g. Ukraine. Most of the US inhabitants are ok, but the US itself is the worlds biggest criminal shit.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505922374994124800


----------



## gambit

Dustom999 said:


> And now the ex- ranger, navy seal, commando, diver, gunner, intelligence officer think ( just by the fancy of his imagination) that some one on net talking to him makes less money!


Gary and I are also Space Shuttle door gunners. The Space Shuttle program is still going in secret.


----------



## jhungary

Ich said:


> Bullshit! Corona is SARS-Cov 2. The US experimented with SARS-COV 1 in Wuhan and suddenly there was the first SARS-COV 2 outbreak in Wuhan. The same US do in other Labs with different viruses over the whole world, e.g. Ukraine. Most of the US inhabitants are ok, but the US itself is the worlds biggest criminal shit.


Read my post again, I am not disputing that.

I am saying if we can do it with a $650,000 grant, it would be a bargain, and we should give Fauci more money.

We need Bio Weapon capability. Dude, it's lying to yourself to think you don't need one.


----------



## dBSPL

Russia seems to have underestimated Ukraine's dispersed deployment and UAV integrated artillery capabilities. Not Kyiv, but Kharkov, which was allegedly besieged.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505911922788651011


----------



## jhungary

gambit said:


> Gary and I are also Space Shuttle door gunners. The Space Shuttle program is still going in secret.


The man don't know Ranger = Commando and you need to be airborne qualified in order to join SOF.......LOL, then he come around and say he is from the National Defence Academy, I would think that's the same requirement in India. 

I never said I was Navy Seal tho, don't know where that come from.


----------



## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505919546150031362
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505919740274954241




This is a big problem for Russias Air Force. This tells me they have only several hundred air launched cruise missiles left. This means they will have to spend longer sorties over Ukrainian air space and they still have not defeated Ukrainian air defenses.

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## Viet

tower9 said:


> Also I never said the invasion of Ukraine was a good thing for Russia. It may certainly be economically disastrous. But what the west doesn’t understand is that Russia is a country that is willing to destroy itself as long as it can kill its enemies.


Putin sees Ukraines as same people now he wants to kill his brother then commit suicide.


----------



## Foinikas

bobo6661 said:


> Wow your old man ...
> From what i read russian made scorched land tactic during that time so there was nothing for French to loot


That's why with the first chance they got,they grabbed everything they could find. In villages,in towns and when they got to Moscow.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505921753549357059

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505922231712497664


----------



## Foinikas

Viet said:


> Putin sees Ukraines as same people now he wants to kill his brother then commit suicide.


Didn't North Vietnam attack South Vietnam again and again? Didn't the PAVN and Viet Cong fight a long war to take over South Vietnam? How many of your compatriots did you kill? How many ARVN soldiers and civilians that you considered "counter-revolutionary" did you kill? Don't blame Putin then. Uncle Ho did worse things. Far worse.

I'm sure even @gambit will agree with me on this


----------



## Ich

jhungary said:


> Read my post again, I am not disputing that.
> 
> I am saying if we can do it with a $650,000 grant, it would be a bargain, and we should give Fauci more money.
> 
> We need Bio Weapon capability. Dude, it's lying to yourself to think you don't need one.



I still miss the facepalm smiley at the like button.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## SuvarnaTeja

Wood said:


> Saw this on MSNBC
> 
> View attachment 825996
> 
> 
> View attachment 825997
> 
> 
> Proposal to rebuild Ukraine with Russian gas money and reserves?



Who is Michel in the Ukraine's Marshal plan?

No Macron means France has been dumped again like in the case of AUKUS? 

Seems like NATO has become an Anglo-Saxon organization to protect their Nazi brothers.

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## bobo6661

Foinikas said:


> That's why with the first chance they got,they grabbed everything they could find. In villages,in towns and when they got to Moscow.


man you're desperate there was nearly nothing left you understand what scorched land(earth) means? that was one of problems why napoleon lost logistic


----------



## Vergennes

Amliunion said:


> Lmao. His Video is also available wherein he ran to Poland.



Kindly post it


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505917635770335241The tweet of the Ukrainian foreign minister Kuleba about today's massacre of civilians at Kherson.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505925576791572481

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## Paul2

gambit said:


> Joe Bidet is in mental decline. A neighbor is a retired nurse and in her final career yrs, she worked with hospice patients. She is a centrist Democrat. When the country was still in semi-lockdown after Bidet was elected, we enjoyed a few beers outside our houses. We did not masked and stood close for conversation like normal people. She told me that Bidet exhibited all the symptoms of someone in early mental decline, from the short stepping gait to squinting eyes. She said the squinting eyes gave him away, that is when the patient still have full mental faculties but strains to concentrate to focus. She believes that Bidet is on drugs to help him focus and that his wife Jill is essentially guilty of elder abuse for letting Bidet continue as is.
> 
> People must suffer their leaders and policies, and currently, the US is suffering Bidet. For all my yrs of political awareness, and I lived thru the mid to late 1970s Saudi oil embargo against US, I have never seen the country went thru so many negative changes in one yr. COVID is no excuse. Bidet is in mental decline that made him weak against political stresses, especially from ideologues inside the Democratic Party. As stresses from political issues mounts, Bidet's physical being will accelerate his decline. As time passes, the odds of a catastrophic event increases. If whatever drugs Bidet is taking fails, that catastrophic event will do serious damage to the US. Anything from loss of concentration in front of other world leaders, or something worse like heart failure, qualifies as a catastrophic event. The context of 'catastrophic' here is the point of no return. So if Bidet lost concentration in front of world leaders and/or the global public, how do we know he had not other events in private? We do not. The press once covered for Roosevelt's wheelchair and then Kennedy's various physical ailments. Today, they covered for Bidet's son Hunter's life as a drug addict and exploiter of the family name. So they are covering for Bidet's mental decline now.



I cannot envy Americans now.

Their electoral system leaves them nothing to choose from. Now, it's either:

Option 1 - A dotard
Option 2 - The dotard

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## jhungary

Ich said:


> I still miss the facepalm smiley at the like button.



Dude, you really do think US does not have a Biological Weapon Program?

I mean, if this can be done cheap, then why not?

I mean, what's the facepalm for?? You think if Russian or China can do it for $650,000, they wouldn't do it?

Now that's a facepalm........


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## Foinikas

bobo6661 said:


> man you're desperate there was nearly nothing left you understand what scorched land(earth) means? that was one of problems why napoleon lost logistic


So in ALL of Russia from what is now Belarus up to Moscow there was nothing? It was all gone. It magically disappeared. Everything was burned down.

I think that YOU are the desperate one.

"*The frequency of looting by the French army and the local population increased as the occupation continued. Initially, looting was driven by wealth but later it was for food. Civilians were killed by troops.* Attempts by French commanders to maintain discipline failed and soldiers would openly disobey the orders of their officers;* as such, many French soldiers took part in these war crimes, even those of the elite Imperial Guard joining their comrades in looting and attacking civilians.*[31] The locals sometimes called the French "pagans" or "basurmans" which depicted the French as godless, as the desecration of local churches was systematically done by the French army to fill Napoleon's war chest."

"Davout had lost 10,000 men marching to Minsk, which he reached on the 8th and would not attack Bagration without Jerome joining him. He ordered Polish cavalry to search *for the thousands of looting soldiers* who stayed behind."

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## dBSPL

Disinformation and war propaganda continue on both sides.

One obvious example: These images were posted as Ukrainian cities on some Ukraine supporter social media accounts. However, in real, the video taken just after the explosion in Lebanon.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504150662208270341
Those who look carefully could understand that this is fake report (climate structures etc.), but the majority of fast-food social media users such as at tik tok do not have this awareness.

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## Ich

jhungary said:


> Dude, you really do think US does not have a Biological Weapon Program?
> 
> I mean, if this can be done cheap, then why not?
> 
> I mean, what's the facepalm for?? You think if Russian or China can do it for $650,000, they wouldn't do it?
> 
> Now that's a facepalm........



The facepalm is for that you dont understand that SARS-COV 2 crash the whole world cause US experimented with SARS-COV 1 to possibly get a bioweapon. Bioweapons cant be stoppt. If you use one, then you kick your own arse in the long run - see SARS-COV-2. So that is why bioweapons are forbidden. If anyone do not understand this - even he has all facts about it - then there is a facepalm smiley needed.

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## dBSPL

Images of the shopping center bombed in Kiev were published in the Russian media.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505926561710673921

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## Viet

Foinikas said:


> Didn't North Vietnam attack South Vietnam again and again? Didn't the PAVN and Viet Cong fight a long war to take over South Vietnam? How many of your compatriots did you kill? How many ARVN soldiers and civilians that you considered "counter-revolutionary" did you kill? Don't blame Putin then. Uncle Ho did worse things. Far worse.
> 
> I'm sure even @gambit will agree with me on this


No comparison 
That was Vietnam civil war.
Like north and South Korea.
Or North and South States in US civil war.


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## jhungary

Ich said:


> The facepalm is for that you dont understand that SARS-COV 2 crash the whole world cause US experimented with SARS-COV 1 to possibly get a bioweapon. Bioweapons cant be stoppt. If you use one, then you kick your own arse in the long run - see SARS-COV-2. So that is why bioweapons are forbidden. If anyone do not understand this - even he has all facts about it - then there is a facepalm smiley needed.


Look, tell me what type of weapon will not come a time to bite your *** back one point or another. Your enemy can turn your guns, fighter jet or tank against you. You see a lot of them doing that in Ukraine. That is the nature of weapon. I mean, just because you made it, it does not mean it wouldn't hurt you. 

So either you develop weapon or you don't, and by weapon, I mean any type of weapon. Not just guns, artillery or tanks. Yes, in a perfect world, we would not have Biological Weapon, Nuclear Weapon or anything that cannot take back after you had used it, but this is not a perfect world, and in war, whether or not you want to use that, you still want that capability, because if you don't and other do, then you will be in underhand. 

I am not a mad man or I am hell bend on ending the world, I am just being a realist. And as I said, people in charge of Military cannot afford the position of "maybe we shouldn't get that as it will blow back up our a$$" If you do that, you lost an edge.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505926513585238023
In Kharkov, the supermarket queue, some Ukrainians who want to take bread home, just found the russian bomb.

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## Foinikas

Viet said:


> No comparison
> That was Vietnam civil war.
> Like north and South Korea.
> Or North and South States in US civil war.


It wasn't civil war. North Vietnam and South Vietnam were two different countries. The majority of the South didn't want to join you. And they had help from USA just like you had help from China and the Soviet Union.


----------



## NotSure

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505920674312998913


 Clowns.

This is from the from the recent strike against the shopping center, which was abused as ammo depot for Grads and 2S7 arti:

https://****/mod_russia_en/320
A russian drone recorded the whole attack sequence. Firing BM-21 near the shopping center, driving back for reloads and then the strike from this night.

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## Foinikas

jhungary said:


> Look, tell me what type of weapon will not come a time to bite your *** back one point or another. Your enemy can turn your guns, fighter jet or tank against you. You see a lot of them doing that in Ukraine. That is the nature of weapon. I mean, just because you made it, it does not mean it wouldn't hurt you.
> 
> So either you develop weapon or you don't, and by weapon, I mean any type of weapon. Not just guns, artillery or tanks. Yes, in a perfect world, we would not have Biological Weapon, Nuclear Weapon or anything that cannot take back after you had used it, but this is not a perfect world, and in war, whether or not you want to use that, you still want that capability, because if you don't and other do, then you will be in underhand.
> 
> I am not a mad man or I am hell bend on ending the world, I am just being a realist. And as I said, people in charge of Military cannot afford the position of "maybe we shouldn't get that as it will blow back up our a$$" If you do that, you lost an edge.


Biological weapons are the most unstable to use. Even Nuclear weapons have a limited range and power. Biological weapons are more dangerous. THAT'S WHY RIPLEY WAS FIGHTING TO KEEP THE ALIENS OFF THE COMPANY'S HANDS! Remember?

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505925573062938626nice one (psyop)

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## letsrock

thetutle said:


> Don't misrepresent me. Muslims always got a far worse deal from russia which included genocide and eradication even of the existence of whole muslim civilisations. The west gave muslims 50 independent states. Some with terrible dictators and yes when they tried to get rid of those dictators, may muslims saw this as a war against islam. Because presumably muslims should not be allowed to have democracy?
> 
> Nazis were not nice people. they hurt the jews and gypsies in my part of the world. bad bad. I like gypsies. They treated my people quite well. as they did many others in Europe and Middle East. They also totally destroyed all our enemies and freed us of some pig eating Serbian king who had ruled Bosnia for 20 miserable years. Good riddance to him.
> 
> a nazi dictator was replaced by a communist dictator. I dont know who was worse. Noone got a vote on choosing the dictator. Communists killed more Bosnians than nazis. so hmmmm.
> 
> All we want is democracy and freedom. Much like Ukrainians. Is it too much to ask?


what misrepresentation? lol. You doubled down on what you said before.

There is nothing for west or anyone to "give" anything to muslims in terms of who should be ruling what. Freedom means muslims choose what they want in terms of who should rule them. Telling people what their borders should be and who must be ruling them is not freedom. Your patronizing racist tones are off the charts really.

You are not here for democracy or freedom. You are just doing realpolitik here trying to instigate muslims with "hey look at russia - they are allegedly worse some 500 years ago - that excuses anything happening to you now in palestine or wherever". Despite Tsarist russia is not same as Russian empire which is not same as Bolshevik or Soviet Russia and which is not same as Putin Russia. You are playing an overly clever game which fools none.

who is coming in the way of your democracy or freedom? - definitely not russia. USSR peacefully allowed anyone who wanted to walk away to walk away - that was historically unprecedented. And after that too did Russia bother with any of the countries other than georgia and ukraine? is Russia interfering with bosnia or baltics ?

Moreover you are not west. Yes - if you go to some anglo country - adopt english- relegate your culture to occasional food and festivals - then you will be accepted as a white guy. No one is going to accept bosnian culture as western culture. Just for the pathetic white guy privilege you play so many games here.

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## Dustom999

jhungary said:


> Look, tell me what type of weapon will not come a time to bite your *** back one point or another. Your enemy can turn your guns, fighter jet or tank against you. You see a lot of them doing that in Ukraine. That is the nature of weapon. I mean, just because you made it, it does not mean it wouldn't hurt you.
> 
> So either you develop weapon or you don't, and by weapon, I mean any type of weapon. Not just guns, artillery or tanks. Yes, in a perfect world, we would not have Biological Weapon, Nuclear Weapon or anything that cannot take back after you had used it, but this is not a perfect world, and in war, whether or not you want to use that, you still want that capability, because if you don't and other do, then you will be in underhand.
> 
> I am not a mad man or I am hell bend on ending the world, I am just being a realist. And as I said, people in charge of Military cannot afford the position of "maybe we shouldn't get that as it will blow back up our a$$" If you do that, you lost an edge.


I am waiting for you to become an expert on bio weapons! Like u confidently said no bio weapons lab in ukrain- like you know biology or Pentagon reports to you of it's endeavours. 

Wow that would be good.

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## Vergennes

Russian infantry neutralized by Azov


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505931343825416195


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## jhungary

Foinikas said:


> Biological weapons are the most unstable to use. Even Nuclear weapons have a limited range and power. Biological weapons are more dangerous. THAT'S WHY RIPLEY WAS FIGHTING TO KEEP THE ALIENS OFF THE COMPANY'S HANDS! Remember?


Well, I guess the point is not really whether or not they are dangerous, but whether or not people are going to develop it regardless. 

I can tell you this, US is not the only country that have Biological Weapon, that is a fact, and US is not the only country that have, lets say, a desire, to pursuit Biological Weapon program. So the matter really is, what if I don't have and someone use it.

Whether or not people use it is another matter, but as I said, when you are talking about weapon capability, that has to be full spectrum. Same as Chemical Weapon, and Same as Nuclear Weapon.


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## dBSPL

Megafon, one of the largest mobile operators in Russia, announced that Telegram usage across the country surpassed WhatsApp for the first time.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505643511928037379
Hollywood helping out!


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## jhungary

Dustom999 said:


> I am waiting for you to become an expert on bio weapons! Like u confidently said no bio weapons lab in ukrain- like you know biology or Pentagon reports to you of it's endeavours.
> 
> Wow that would be good.


Don't put word in my mouth.

I never said Ukraine do not have Bio Weapon Lab, I said if Ukraine were to develop Biological Weapon with US help, they may as well buy from the US, if US is willing to help anyway. That give them deniability and it's WAY cheaper than try to make one.

I don't believe an investigation is warranted as much as I don't believe in Chinese being investigated by WHO or anyone else is warranted. Because that said international authority is not doing the job they are supposed to do. Sure, if Russia or US (in the case of Wuhan) were able to provide more concrete evidence that Biological Weapon were indeed being developed in those lab, then yes, not when you are just talking about it, or in Russia case, using Victoria Nuland words, which she never even mentioned Biological Weapon.

That's the different, and if you cannot see it, that's your business.

And I don't need to be an expert to talk about stuff, since when have I claimed to be a Biological Weapon expert? Now I can't even have my opinion about stuff now, can't I? Dude, you need to chill, maybe being banned for a few days (hopefully) is good for you. Catch up with your sausage fest buddies for a talk or game of rugby, then come back for a more "sane" discussion.

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## Foinikas

dBSPL said:


> Disinformation and war propaganda continue on both sides.
> 
> One obvious example: These images were posted as Ukrainian cities on some Ukraine supporter social media accounts. However, in real, the video taken just after the explosion in Lebanon.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504150662208270341
> Those who look carefully could understand that this is fake report (climate structures etc.), but the majority of fast-food social media users such as at tik tok do not have this awareness.


Most people don't even know were Kharkov is.


Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505643511928037379
> Hollywood helping out!


Well Kunis is Ukrainian and Hollywood is majority Democrat and anti-Putin. Also Jewish.

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## sur

dBSPL said:


> Images of the shopping center bombed in Kiev were published in the Russian media.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505926561710673921


(source)

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## dBSPL

Turkish Naval Forces Command, Department of Navigational Hydrography and Oceanography, published Navtex and warned sailors against the danger of mines in the Black Sea.




Ukraine has irresponsibly mined its territorial waters, and then stated that some of them were disconnected and drifted into the current.


----------



## Wood

Foinikas said:


> Well Kunis is Ukrainian and Hollywood is majority Democrat and anti-Putin. Also Jewish.


I had no idea that she was Ukrainian. Now the donation makes sense.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505933682556739589

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## Meengla

letsrock said:


> *USSR peacefully allowed anyone who wanted to walk away to walk away - that was historically unprecedented*. And after that too did Russia bother with any of the countries other than georgia and ukraine? is Russia interfering with bosnia or baltics



We maybe getting off topic but you are right on this: USSR was still very powerful in late 1980s and yet they (basically, the Russians) let go off their huge empire and that was unprecedented in human history and remains so. I distinctly remember some (left leaning) Pakistani columnists remarked on that aspect of the disintegration of the Soviet Union. 

As for @thetutle , I believe he has good insight about eastern Europe but he is wrong to say that Russia's planning is to expand to take back the former USSR states. And he is also wrong to say that this is anything about 'freedom and democracy' or about 'sovereignty'. America has done enough blatant violations of those mighty principles and so has no right to talk about them in this conflict. 
I see this conflict as a business opportunity to grab Russia's immense riches, and basically driven by the same few hundreds who make the cabal of American corporations, media agencies, and politicians who led America to the illegal war against Iraq in 2003. The rest is noise and smokescreen, if not outright hypocritic.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505935559235149829

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## dBSPL

sur said:


> (source)
> 
> View attachment 826021








MLRS trucks (The ballistic missile hitted on this exact spot.)

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## Ich

dBSPL said:


> Ukraine has irresponsibly mined its territorial waters, and then stated that some of them were disconnected and drifted into the current.



So it was doubble ok that Turkey close the passage.

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## mmr

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505904610870968326


Ppl will just use VPN lol


----------



## letsrock

Meengla said:


> We maybe getting off topic but you are right on this: USSR was still very powerful in late 1980s and yet they (basically, the Russians) let go off their huge empire and that was unprecedented in human history and remains so. I distinctly remember some (left leaning) Pakistani columnists remarked on that aspect of the disintegration of the Soviet Union.
> 
> As for @thetutle , I believe he has good insight about eastern Europe but he is wrong to say that Russia's planning is to expand to take back the former USSR states. And he is also wrong to say that this is anything about 'freedom and democracy' or about 'sovereignty'. America has done enough blatant violations of those mighty principles and so has no right to talk about them in this conflict.
> I see this conflict as a business opportunity to grab Russia's immense riches, and basically driven by the same few hundreds who make the cabal of American corporations, media agencies, and politicians who led America to the illegal war against Iraq in 2003. The rest is noise and smokescreen, if not outright hypocritic.



well put. And i may have mixed up parts of @thetutle with another user who was obsessing about old russian empire's quarrel with some khanates here and there almost 5 to 6 centuries ago. But still my points stand as they are.


----------



## Primus

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505935559235149829


And what about the thousands of men, women and children they genocided in Bosnia and Herzegovina and else where? There is a reason why Operation Deliberate Force happened

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## dBSPL

(with a pinch of salt)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505912103676350465


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505937665010581510
WASHINGTON—The U.S. is sending some of the Soviet-made air defense equipment it secretly acquired decades ago to bolster the Ukrainian military as it seeks to fend off Russian air and missile attacks, U.S. officials said.

The systems, which one U.S. official said include the SA-8, are decades old and were obtained by the U.S. so it could examine the technology used by the Russian military and which Moscow has exported around the world.









WSJ News Exclusive | U.S. Sending Soviet Air Defense Systems It Secretly Acquired to Ukraine


The Pentagon over the years has acquired Soviet equipment as part of a clandestine program, and now such weapons are going to Ukraine.




www.wsj.com


----------



## thetutle

letsrock said:


> Freedom means muslims choose what they want in terms of who should rule them. Telling people what their borders should be and who must be ruling them is not freedom. Y


Yes muslims should choose who their leaders are. They deserve that democratic right. I am glad we can all agree on that. 


letsrock said:


> You are not here for democracy or freedom. You are just doing realpolitik here trying to instigate muslims with "hey look at russia - they are allegedly worse some 500 years ago - that excuses anything happening to you now in palestine or wherever". Despite Tsarist russia is not same as Russian empire which is not same as Bolshevik or Soviet Russia and which is not same as Putin Russia. You are playing an overly clever game which fools none.


Well do you think Crimea is Russian land? A land that was 90% muslim Tatar who were killed and genocided by Russians. You consider that really Russian land? 


letsrock said:


> who is coming in the way of your democracy or freedom? - definitely not russia. USSR peacefully allowed anyone who wanted to walk away to walk away - that was historically unprecedented. And after that too did Russia bother with any of the countries other than georgia and ukraine? is Russia interfering with bosnia or baltics ?


Well Russia instead of allowing ukranins to vote for their leaders seems to be killing them, and installing their own unelected military governors right now. 

In Bosnia, Russia is funding and arming a Serbian separatist that had promised to attack Bosnian army formations in the Serbian majority part of the country. The Russian ambassador is threatening to attack Bosnia if we join NATO. On national TV. NATO and EU sent extra troops to Bosnia to counter this threat and ensure stability. 


letsrock said:


> Moreover you are not west. Yes - if you go to some anglo country - adopt english- relegate your culture to occasional food and festivals - then you will be accepted as a white guy. No one is going to accept bosnian culture as western culture. Just for the pathetic white guy privilege you play so many games here.


Ok, Bosnia does not have to be a western country. We can be an Islamic country. Its definitely a muslim majority country. Or we can even be a sub Saharan country if you want. But we deserve to have freedom and democracy, to choose who our leaders are. To not live under military occupation from a rogue nuclear power. And to freely choose our alliances. The west lets us make theses choices. Russia does not. It wants a veto over what alliance we will belong to. 

Don't we deserve to make our own choices?

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## Amliunion

She says: “I would like to appeal to those on whom it depends. Please listen to me. There are a lot of civilians in Mariupol who could not leave for one reason or another. The fighting continues and the situation is getting worse. And this is not a place for women at all 
children, old people. I would like a solution to be found that allows you to take all the civilians out of the city of Mariupol, out of this hell. We need to organize a rescue operation to take out all these innocent people. Declare a few days of silence, a cessation of hostilities. Seeing that what happened in the city during these three weeks, I really hope that a decision will be made." I do not believe her, she saves the Nazis of Azov. But no one from Kyiv will listen to this.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505889972762689554


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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505531321719865351


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## Meengla

dBSPL said:


> Megafon, one of the largest mobile operators in Russia, announced that Telegram usage across the country surpassed WhatsApp for the first time.



Creeping toward the Einstein quote: "I don't know what weapons will be used in the 3rd world war. But in the 4th world war, we will be using stones and sticks." [Paraphrased]


----------



## dBSPL

Meengla said:


> we will be using stones and sticks." [Paraphrased]


mobile phones and psyops

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## Meengla

Amliunion said:


> She says: “I would like to appeal to those on whom it depends. Please listen to me. There are a lot of civilians in Mariupol who could not leave for one reason or another. The fighting continues and the situation is getting worse. And this is not a place for women at all
> children, old people. I would like a solution to be found that allows you to take all the civilians out of the city of Mariupol, out of this hell. We need to organize a rescue operation to take out all these innocent people. Declare a few days of silence, a cessation of hostilities. Seeing that what happened in the city during these three weeks, I really hope that a decision will be made." I do not believe her, she saves the Nazis of Azov. But no one from Kyiv will listen to this.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505889972762689554



Yes, there are some reports that the defenders of Mariupol are not allowing civilians to leave because, without the civilian shields, Russians, are going to truly do horrific actions to Mariupol. 
*To me, unless NATO directly intervenes, Mariupol is gone. Save some lives!!*


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## Foinikas

Wood said:


> I had no idea that she was Ukrainian. Now the donation makes sense.


She's Ukrainian-Jewish and liberal



Meengla said:


> Yes, there are some reports that the defenders of Mariupol are not allowing civilians to leave because, without the civilian shields, Russians, are going to truly do horrific actions to Mariupol.
> *To me, unless NATO directly intervenes, Mariupol is gone. Save some lives!!*


It's the same thing armed "opposition" groups had been doing in Syria.


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## northeast

thetutle said:


> Yes muslims should choose who their leaders are. They deserve that democratic right. I am glad we can all agree on that.
> 
> Well do you think Crimea is Russian land? A land that was 90% muslim Tatar who were killed and genocided by Russians. You consider that really Russian land?
> 
> Well Russia instead of allowing ukranins to vote for their leaders seems to be killing them, and installing their own unelected military governors right now.
> 
> In Bosnia, Russia is funding and arming a Serbian separatist that had promised to attack Bosnian army formations in the Serbian majority part of the country. The Russian ambassador is threatening to attack Bosnia if we join NATO. On national TV. NATO and EU sent extra troops to Bosnia to counter this threat and ensure stability.
> 
> Ok, Bosnia does not have to be a western country. We can be an Islamic country. Its definitely a muslim majority country. Or we can even be a sub Saharan country if you want. But we deserve to have freedom and democracy, to choose who our leaders are. To not live under military occupation from a rogue nuclear power. And to freely choose our alliances. The west lets us make theses choices. Russia does not. It wants a veto over what alliance we will belong to.
> 
> Don't we deserve to make our own choices?


You think US,Canada,Australia rightfully belong to anglo-saxon savages? I hope one day china would free the lands of indians from those evil european.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505943291409453056

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## Meengla

Foinikas said:


> She's Ukrainian-Jewish and liberal
> 
> 
> It's the same thing armed "opposition" groups had been doing in Syria.



Mariupol is so important for Russia that they are allowing the defending forces to leave in peace with their weapons as long as they leave Mariupol. Target next is Odessa, if not some ceasefire agreement.
Putin is hellbent on cutting Ukraine's sea access. I think the Sea of Azov is already taken by Russia.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505945111171145729

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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> I see this conflict as a business opportunity to grab Russia's immense riches, and basically driven by the same few hundreds who make the cabal of American corporations, media agencies, and politicians who led America to the illegal war against Iraq in 2003. The rest is noise and smokescreen, if not outright hypocritic.


Without a doubt, NATO and US in particular wanted this to happen so badly. They want to hammer russia hard. They wanted an excuse to take their 300 billion and its more and more money every day. UK was waiting for this for a very long time. Russia used nuclear and biological weapons on UK soil to assassinate people. 

They wanted to hurt russia bad. Australia lost people when a civilian airliner was shot down and made it clear to Putin that Australia is sending lethal arms that will kill Russians. 

They could not wait for this strategic error by Putin. The military industrial complex has wet itself from joy. 

US is directing artillery fire for gods sake. Of course the final aim is to rob Russia of its great natural resource wealth. And you know what, it couldn't have happened to a better candidate. 


Meengla said:


> I believe he has good insight about eastern Europe but he is wrong to say that Russia's planning is to expand to take back the former USSR states. And he is also wrong to say that this is anything about 'freedom and democracy' or about 'sovereignty'. America has done enough blatant violations of those mighty principles and so has no right to talk about them in this conflict.


As we said before, if America made mistakes, it does not excuse russia. America has not changed any borders by force since 1945. When they stole German lands. 

One exception is Kosovo. it took 10,000 sq km form Serbia and gave it independence. Thats tiny amount of land. which should never have been Serbian in the first place. 

Does this give anyone the right to redraw European borders? heck no. 

As for overthrowing Saddam, well he thought he could redraw the Middle East borders, attacked 2 countries, killed a million muslims. he gambled and like most gamblers he lost. 

There is another gambler here now who thinks he can redraw borders. Lets see what happens.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505939515659149321

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505940460933726213


Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505939515659149321




The Russian Air Force will soon have to conduct more and longer sorties over Ukrainian air space. Today, the Pentagon stated Russia has only a little more than half of their air launched cruise missiles remaining. Best guess is they have 250-450 missiles remaining. Dangerous situation for the Russian Air Force.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505929947407335443

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## Ich

thetutle said:


> As for overthrowing Saddam, well he thought he could redraw the Middle East borders



As far as i remember, 1990 was the beginning of horizontal oil drilling. This technic was then used by Kuwait to connect to a oilfield on the iraki side. Saddam try to get help from US but US shit on him and Kuwait did not stop sucking iraki oil. Then Saddam declares war and invade Kuwait. After the Irak war 1 the West recognize a change of the border between Irak and Kuwait so that iraki oilfield now is Kuwait ground.

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russian Air Force will soon have to conduct more and longer sorties over Ukrainian air space. Today, the Pentagon stated Russia has only a little more than half of their air launched cruise missiles remaining. Best guess is they have 250-450 missiles remaining. Dangerous situation for the Russian Air Force.


Hopefully half of what they have left is broke and don't work


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505949758354907138

Thought this was funny

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## Meengla

thetutle said:


> Without a doubt, NATO and US in particular wanted this to happen so badly. They want to hammer russia hard. They wanted an excuse to take their 300 billion and its more and more money every day. UK was waiting for this for a very long time. Russia used nuclear and biological weapons on UK soil to assassinate people.
> 
> They wanted to hurt russia bad. Australia lost people when a civilian airliner was shot down and made it clear to Putin that Australia is sending lethal arms that will kill Russians.
> 
> They could not wait for this strategic error by Putin. The military industrial complex has wet itself from joy.
> 
> US is directing artillery fire for gods sake. Of course the final aim is to rob Russia of its great natural resource wealth. And you know what, it couldn't have happened to a better candidate.
> 
> As we said before, if America made mistakes, it does not excuse russia. America has not changed any borders by force since 1945. When they stole German lands.
> 
> One exception is Kosovo. it took 10,000 sq km form Serbia and gave it independence. Thats tiny amount of land. which should never have been Serbian in the first place.
> 
> Does this give anyone the right to redraw European borders? heck no.
> 
> As for overthrowing Saddam, well he thought he could redraw the Middle East borders, attacked 2 countries, killed a million muslims. he gambled and like most gamblers he lost.
> 
> There is another gambler here now who thinks he can redraw borders. Lets see what happens.



Honestly, if one reads your post a bit carefully, you are advocating 'exceptions' and 'exceptionalism'. You and I will continue to differ on some issues.

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## F-22Raptor

Wood said:


> Hopefully half of what they have left is broke and don't work





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505950708239065097

On that note

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## letsrock

thetutle said:


> Yes muslims should choose who their leaders are. They deserve that democratic right. I am glad we can all agree on that.
> 
> Well do you think Crimea is Russian land? A land that was 90% muslim Tatar who were killed and genocided by Russians. You consider that really Russian land?
> 
> Well Russia instead of allowing ukranins to vote for their leaders seems to be killing them, and installing their own unelected military governors right now.
> 
> In Bosnia, Russia is funding and arming a Serbian separatist that had promised to attack Bosnian army formations in the Serbian majority part of the country. The Russian ambassador is threatening to attack Bosnia if we join NATO. On national TV. NATO and EU sent extra troops to Bosnia to counter this threat and ensure stability.
> 
> Ok, Bosnia does not have to be a western country. We can be an Islamic country. Its definitely a muslim majority country. Or we can even be a sub Saharan country if you want. But we deserve to have freedom and democracy, to choose who our leaders are. To not live under military occupation from a rogue nuclear power. And to freely choose our alliances. The west lets us make theses choices. Russia does not. It wants a veto over what alliance we will belong to.
> 
> Don't we deserve to make our own choices?



Again you keep mixing up Russian empire with soviet republics and modern russia. Essentially you are not holding anyone accountable but raging against history.

i dont know about crimea but i know the entire central asian republics which were occupied by Russian empire have preserved their religion and culture and turned in to soviet republics. They all seceded from USSR in to Kazhakstan, krygyz, uzbek etc in to sovereign countries.

i know there are some mongol khanates who themselves converted to islam pretty late and were absorbed in to russian empire in 13th and 14th century. There is no evidence of genocide of ordinary people and russia still has significant muslim minorities. And indeed if we are going that far behind in history then we should be asking a lot of countries in new world too.

i hope bonsians and serbs figure out their differences. Its a wise idea not to join NATO though and make peace with your neighbors.

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505945111171145729



So much bigger than M115

Soviets were real about compensation

By the way, does US still stock screw-on guidance kits for its 203mm?


----------



## thetutle

Ich said:


> As far as i remember, 1990 was the beginning of horizontal oil drilling. This technic was then used by Kuwait to connect to a oilfield on the iraki side. Saddam try to get help from US but US shit on him and Kuwait did not stop sucking iraki oil. Then Saddam declares war and invade Kuwait. After the Irak war 1 the West recognize a change of the border between Irak and Kuwait so that iraki oilfield now is Kuwait ground.


Well the world has learned a valuable lesson from Saddam. Horizontal drilling is not a legitimate excuse to change borders with war. We will soon find out if "de-nazification" is a legitimate excuse or will it lead to ruin. 


letsrock said:


> i dont know about crimea but i know the entire central asian republics which were occupied by Russian empire have preserved their religion and culture and turned in to soviet republics. They all seceded from USSR in to Kazhakstan, krygyz, uzbek etc in to sovereign countries.


Russia certainly did not genocide the Tajiks etc too much because they were too far away and the land was too inhospitable to effectively control. And they didnt have the capacity to colonise it yet. But what of the Volga Tatars. how many of them are left? They used to dominate the area in population. Now they are just a few million. And you would be against Russia invading Kazakstan and taking more muslim land right? You would be against russia expanding its borders on the Caspian sea right? 



letsrock said:


> i hope bonsians and serbs figure out their differences. Its a wise idea not to join NATO though and make peace with your neighbors.


No, we will join NATO whether they like it or not. It will ensure they have peace and security too. They will throw a tantrum but eventually get over it and those serbs who are lucky enough to be citizens of Bosnia will be proud nato soldiers serving the cause of freedom and justice.


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## sammuel

~

Is it not time that this stupidity ends ?

The world really does not need this world right now , it is not good to anyone including Russia. Really time to end this madness.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Meengla said:


> We maybe getting off topic but you are right on this: USSR was still very powerful in late 1980s and yet they (basically, the Russians) let go off their huge empire and that was unprecedented in human history and remains so. I distinctly remember some (left leaning) Pakistani columnists remarked on that aspect of the disintegration of the Soviet Union.
> 
> As for @thetutle , I believe he has good insight about eastern Europe but he is wrong to say that Russia's planning is to expand to take back the former USSR states. And he is also wrong to say that this is anything about 'freedom and democracy' or about 'sovereignty'. America has done enough blatant violations of those mighty principles and so has no right to talk about them in this conflict.
> I see this conflict as a business opportunity to grab Russia's immense riches, and basically driven by the same few hundreds who make the cabal of American corporations, media agencies, and politicians who led America to the illegal war against Iraq in 2003. The rest is noise and smokescreen, if not outright hypocritic.



USSR was ruled by Ukrainians (Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Gorbachev were all Ukrainian) so they didn't care too much about what happened to Russia.

Ukraine was richer than Russia in the Soviet days as they had all the heavy industry while Russia mostly had resource extraction.

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## FairAndUnbiased

thetutle said:


> Well the world has learned a valuable lesson from Saddam. Horizontal drilling is not a legitimate excuse to change borders with war. We will soon find out if "de-nazification" is a legitimate excuse or will it lead to ruin.
> 
> Russia certainly did not genocide the Tajiks etc too much because they were too far away and the land was too inhospitable to effectively control. And they didnt have the capacity to colonise it yet. But what of the Volga Tatars. how many of them are left? They used to dominate the area in population. Now they are just a few million. And you would be against Russia invading Kazakstan and taking more muslim land right? You would be against russia expanding its borders on the Caspian sea right?
> 
> 
> No, we will join NATO whether they like it or not. It will ensure they have peace and security too. They will throw a tantrum but eventually get over it and those serbs who are lucky enough to be citizens of Bosnia will be proud nato soldiers serving the cause of freedom and justice.



OK in 200 BC China could project power to Mongolia and conquer then Sinicize the Xiongnu (Huns) but Russia with 20th century tech could not assimilate Tajikistan if they wanted to. Lol OK.

Serbs lucky to be Bosnian? Do you know which is the richer country??


----------



## SuvarnaTeja

northeast said:


> You think US,Canada,Australia rightly belong to anglo-saxon savages? I hope one day china would free the lands of indians from those evil european.



Tough task. Modi has firm grip on India and Anglo-Saxons have full control on Modi.

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## Vergennes

Ukrainian forces have liberated Makariv near Kyiv. This further isolates Russian forces south of the E40 highway.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505889409408905216

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## SuvarnaTeja

FairAndUnbiased said:


> USSR was ruled by Ukrainians (Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Gorbachev were all Ukrainian) so they didn't care too much about what happened to Russia.
> 
> Ukraine was richer than Russia in the Soviet days as they had all the heavy industry while Russia mostly had resource extraction.



Don't forget the Georgian Stalin who donated Russia's Crimea to Ukraine.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505956374517366786
No way the Russians are this stupid. Please tell me this is Ukrainian propaganda

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## FairAndUnbiased

SuvarnaTeja said:


> Don't forget the Georgian Stalin who donated Russia's Crimea to Ukraine.



Many problems of the USSR stem from the fact that they allowed non Russians too many rights.

Did British allow Indians or Africans to vote or become PM? Yet Russians allowed Ukrainians to join the Politburo and even become president.

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## Vergennes



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## letsrock

thetutle said:


> Well the world has learned a valuable lesson from Saddam. Horizontal drilling is not a legitimate excuse to change borders with war. We will soon find out if "de-nazification" is a legitimate excuse or will it lead to ruin.
> 
> Russia certainly did not genocide the Tajiks etc too much because they were too far away and the land was too inhospitable to effectively control. And they didnt have the capacity to colonise it yet. But what of the Volga Tatars. how many of them are left? They used to dominate the area in population. Now they are just a few million. And you would be against Russia invading Kazakstan and taking more muslim land right? You would be against russia expanding its borders on the Caspian sea right?
> 
> 
> No, we will join NATO whether they like it or not. It will ensure they have peace and security too. They will throw a tantrum but eventually get over it and those serbs who are lucky enough to be citizens of Bosnia will be proud nato soldiers serving the cause of freedom and justice.


Alright - take your revenge for czar against putin after 5 centuries. Any plans to revenge against spain for moor empire too ?
Playing nato against russia is playing with fire. You are likely to get burnt like Ukraine right now. A small country shouldnt play such stupid politics instead of neighborly relations.

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## SuvarnaTeja

Meengla said:


> Honestly, if one reads your post a bit carefully, you are advocating 'exceptions' and 'exceptionalism'. You and I will continue to differ on some issues.



US is exceptional.

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## Tamerlane

thetutle said:


> But what of the *Volga Tatars*. how many of them are left? They used to dominate the area in population. Now they are just a few million. And you would be against Russia invading Kazakstan and taking more muslim land right? You would be against russia expanding its borders on the Caspian sea right?



The President of the Central Bank of Russia of Russia, Elvira Nabiullina, is a Volga Tatar. So is Kamila Valieva the Olympic gold medalist. Whatever the past the Volga Tatars are doing okay in Russia today.

Russia will not invade Kazakhstan, because Kazaks are not killing Russians who live there, unlike Ukraine which killed 15,000 of them. Russians live peacefully in Kazakhstan.

But I understand your point of view. Bosnians need to deal with Serbs and Russia supports Serbia. So Bosnians don't like Russia.

If someone looks at the world from a very detached Muslim perspective, like I try to do, what one finds is that there are Muslims all over the world and they've had conflicts with everyone from one end of the world to the other. If they don't have a conflict now, they had one some time in history. The conclusion would be that everyone is an enemy. But then, Muslims have had conflicts with each other, so even Muslims are the enemies of Muslims.

So, where does that leave you? With exactly the situation we have today. Muslims fighting with everyone else and Muslims fighting against each other.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505961677371621379

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## FairAndUnbiased

letsrock said:


> Alright - take your revenge for czar against putin after 5 centuries. Any plans to revenge against spain for moor empire too ?
> Playing nato against russia is playing with fire. You are likely to get burnt like Ukraine right now. A small country shouldnt play such stupid politics instead of neighborly relations.



They are essentially advocating a might makes right position. Basically they believe NATO is good because NATO is strong.

I'm fine with that. They should come out and admit it though.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505946063269933057


Vergennes said:


> Ukrainian forces have liberated Makariv near Kyiv. This further isolates Russian forces south of the E40 highway.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505889409408905216
> View attachment 826051



Some guy in a ruined warehouse, I see no liberation, bro.


----------



## letsrock

FairAndUnbiased said:


> They are essentially advocating a might makes right position. Basically they believe NATO is good because NATO is strong.
> 
> I'm fine with that. They should come out and admit it though.


Unlike what they like to believe, NATO wont be paying for security for every diddle little country and waging wars on their behalf against russia and their neighbors . NATO will do things at their calculations. These silly people will get burned playing giants for games.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505956374517366786
> No way the Russians are this stupid. Please tell me this is Ukrainian propaganda




Show proof or it didn't happen.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505955159305863176


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## Foinikas

Meengla said:


> Mariupol is so important for Russia that they are allowing the defending forces to leave in peace with their weapons as long as they leave Mariupol. Target next is Odessa, if not some ceasefire agreement.
> Putin is hellbent on cutting Ukraine's sea access. I think the Sea of Azov is already taken by Russia.


The problem is that much of Mariupol is already destroyed. Both Mariupol and Odessa had a lot of Greeks and Ukrainians who live in Greece and have relatives there. The TV channels here are talking about the Russian bombing of the mall without even mentioning that the Ukrainians were using it as an ammo depot or that they were firing from nearby.

They talk and talk about Ukrainian soldiers who fell and were given funerals and heroes and this and so many people died and they talk as if it's the first war they've seen in their lives.

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## FairAndUnbiased

letsrock said:


> Unlike what they like to believe, NATO wont be paying for security for every diddle little country and waging wars on their behalf against russia and their neighbors . NATO will do things at their calculations. These silly people will get burned playing giants for games.



Many people don't remember there was an Asian counterpart to NATO called SEATO. It failed.


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## dBSPL

letsrock said:


> Again you keep mixing up Russian empire with soviet republics and modern russia. Essentially you are not holding anyone accountable but raging against history.
> 
> i dont know about crimea but i know the entire central asian republics which were occupied by Russian empire have preserved their religion and culture and turned in to soviet republics. They all seceded from USSR in to Kazhakstan, krygyz, uzbek etc in to sovereign countries.
> 
> i know there are some mongol khanates who themselves converted to islam pretty late and were absorbed in to russian empire in 13th and 14th century. There is no evidence of genocide of ordinary people and russia still has significant muslim minorities. And indeed if we are going that far behind in history then we should be asking a lot of countries in new world too.
> 
> i hope bonsians and serbs figure out their differences. Its a wise idea not to join NATO though and make peace with your neighbors.


It is very remarkable that how to you refrain from using the word Turk. I can guess your original nationality and parental origin with 200km margin of error.


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## jhungary

Hmm....Some days ago, there a dude here post a Jewish Journalist saying Babi Yar Memorial is intact and the news are fake news. Well...............






@43:47

It look very much damaged to me........


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## Foinikas

thetutle said:


> Russia certainly did not genocide the Tajiks etc too much because they were too far away and the land was too inhospitable to effectively control.


Kyrghyzstan and Tajikistan have no natural resources. In the Soviet era they survived by getting money and help from the central government. Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan had the natural gas,Azerbaijan and northern Caucasus had the oil. Ukraine had the wheat,Armenia had the wine and brandy etc.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Foinikas said:


> Kyrghyzstan and Tajikistan have no natural resources. In the Soviet era they survived by getting money and help from the central government. Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan had the natural gas,Azerbaijan and northern Caucasus had the oil. Ukraine had the wheat,Armenia had the wine and brandy etc.



Ukraine also has the heavy industry and most of all, the favor of the rulers who were Ukrainian.

Yet after the Soviet Union they declined almost as badly as Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan.

Kyrgyzstan today at least has the benefit of trade with China. There's a YouTuber who is Kyrgyz living in China who makes pretty good life videos.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505971801502933004

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505973929239851020

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## dBSPL

According to Bulat Chakrov, head of the Russian Federation of Shopping Centers, negotiations are continuing with Turkish fast-food chains to open branches in Russia instead of western restaurant chains that have decided to leave Russia. New Turkish chain restaurants to enter Russia may start to appear from next May.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505948536025792514
The first finalized fast food brand Chitir Chicken. Already, many Turkish investor fastfood brands in Russia continue operating.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505406516077248515"Turkish fast food chain will replace McDonald's in Russia. The Chitir Chicken chain will open its first branch at the end of May."

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## SuvarnaTeja

dBSPL said:


> According to Bulat Chakrov, head of the Russian Federation of Shopping Centers, negotiations are continuing with Turkish fast-food chains to open branches in Russia instead of western restaurant chains that have decided to leave Russia. New Turkish chain restaurants to enter Russia may start to appear from next May.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505948536025792514



Forget about it. US will not allow any trade with Russia.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505983897728962560

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## SQ8

dBSPL said:


> According to Bulat Chakrov, head of the Russian Federation of Shopping Centers, negotiations are continuing with Turkish fast-food chains to open branches in Russia instead of western restaurant chains that have decided to leave Russia. New Turkish chain restaurants to enter Russia may start to appear from next May.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505948536025792514


The doner will replace the burger. What an unusual outcome of the conflict

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## oberschlesier

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505955159305863176


Why use a huge and expensive ballistic missile to destroy couple of old grad lunchers ?


----------



## F-22Raptor

oberschlesier said:


> Why use a huge and expensive ballistic missile to destroy couple of old grad lunchers ?




Because the Russian Air Force still hasn't gained air superiority and their precision guided bomb inventory is nonexistent.

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## dBSPL

SuvarnaTeja said:


> Forget about it. US will not allow any trade with Russia.


Turkish-Russian trade volume increased over 20% in the last 1 month.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505973896864055297

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505981542073516034

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505982073202429953


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

dBSPL said:


> According to Bulat Chakrov, head of the Russian Federation of Shopping Centers, negotiations are continuing with Turkish fast-food chains to open branches in Russia instead of western restaurant chains that have decided to leave Russia. New Turkish chain restaurants to enter Russia may start to appear from next May.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505948536025792514
> The first finalized fast food brand Chitir Chicken. Already, many Turkish investor fastfood brands in Russia continue operating.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505406516077248515"Turkish fast food chain will replace McDonald's in Russia. The Chitir Chicken chain will open its first branch at the end of May."



China missed a major opportunity by failing to open Dicos Burgers in Russia.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505984269151260672

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505984269151260672


This is higher than American estimation


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## Viet

Foinikas said:


> It wasn't civil war. North Vietnam and South Vietnam were two different countries. The majority of the South didn't want to join you. And they had help from USA just like you had help from China and the Soviet Union.


North and South Vietnam is a one country you can twitch the words but not the fact. I am southerner by the way.
Vietnam was divided several times in history. Both northerner and southerner claim to be the true ruler of the entire country.


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## F-22Raptor

Wood said:


> This is higher than American estimation



Pentagon estimates are always conservative


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505911350412861441

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## Foinikas

Viet said:


> North and South Vietnam is a one country you can twitch the words but not the fact. I am southerner by the way.


They were two countries. With different governments,different political systems, different armies and the South did not want to unite under a communist government. So if you accuse the Russians of invading Ukraine and killing their brothers,you should remember that North Vietnam did the same and worse.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505989667744849920


----------



## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505984269151260672



As someone pointed out this would be even higher than US estimates.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Ukraine 'Doing a Fantastic Job' of Blocking Russian Reconnaissance, Top Marine Says​

The Russians are struggling with recon. That’s just one of the latest Ukraine battlefield assessments Marine Corps Commandant Gen. David Berger gave on Wednesday.

It appears that Ukrainians are disrupting the Russians’ movements, Berger said, in part by preventing Russians from having a clear understanding of “what’s in front of them,” and confusing the invading forces.

In addition, Ukrainians are winning the “information space,” Berger said, and using the “inherent strength” of being in a defensive position against an invading force, which can be difficult to overcome, Berger said.

“I think they're proving to be very disciplined, very well trained, very well led, and very inspired,” Berger said during a Washington Post Live virtual interview with columnist and author David Ignatius.

Russian forces in Ukraine, however, have been surprisingly bad at “combined arms,” he said, referring to the military discipline of using infantry, armored units, or artillery together against an enemy. While it’s not completely clear why the Russians are struggling, Berger believes one possibility is that the “picture that Ukrainian forces are painting” for the Russians could be causing confusion.

“In other words, their effectiveness at stripping away the reconnaissance for the Russian forces–which is what Marines are very, very good at–could be part of the equation. Said another way, if you're a Russian tactical commander right now on the ground, I'm not sure they have a good picture of what's in front of them. And I think Ukraine’s doing a fantastic job of denying that,” Berger said.

Reconnaissance is a particularly elite function in the Marines Corps, and recon Marines have a somewhat legendary status, dating back to World War II. Berger said the Ukrainians are performing scouting and counter-scouting roles of recon very effectively.

Reconnaissance can be gathered about the enemy and environment through a combination of means, like scouts and surveillance drones. Each side is trying to find out how many enemy troops are in an area, where they are located, and if they are close together or spread out. The troops would use that information to make decisions.

“I think what he's saying is that the Ukrainians are doing a good job of disguising where they are so the Russian commanders can't really figure out, ‘Do I have a whole battalion of Ukrainians up ahead of me or is it just a smaller number?’” a former senior military official told Defense One.

“And so that can tend to slow down an advance by a military force, because they're not really sure of what's ahead of them…They don't want to drive into a kill zone.”

The Ukrainians also have an advantage over Russian forces because they are protecting and defending their homeland, whereas the Russians are on the attack which requires more people, the former senior military official said.

“It’s easier, again, to defend because you're just sitting there waiting for attackers to come and you can do all these things to put the attackers at a disadvantage. The attackers then have to then move into a situation, and I think that's where [Gen. Berger]'s talking about. If the Russians are unsure of what situation they're moving into, that causes them to be much more cautious.









Ukraine 'Doing a Fantastic Job' of Blocking Russian Reconnaissance, Top Marine Says


“I'm not sure [the Russians] have a good picture of what's in front of them.”




www.defenseone.com


----------



## dBSPL

"We are grateful to all Turkish citizens who understand Russia's actions in Ukraine."

"However, we recommend that you avoid traveling to Donbass at this time, and in particular engaging in armed conflicts."


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505940399973707781


----------



## z9-ec

Not so stealthy after all?


----------



## dBSPL

z9-ec said:


> View attachment 826075
> 
> View attachment 826076
> 
> 
> 
> Not so stealthy after all?


What's more remarkable than flying with transponder turned on is that they're avoiding using our airspace. US UAVs departing from Italy bases reach the Black Sea via Greece and Bulgaria.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Tamerlane

The Chosen people running Ukraine were doing to the Russians what they've been doing to the Palestinians for decades. No one cared.

Now that the Russians are doing the same to the Chosen people, everyone is screaming.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505996368233615360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505996369718398988

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505996368233615360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505996373593833477

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## jamal18

Detailed analysis of the situation as it is now.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505933776383352837


Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505973929239851020




Old photos


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505861522022674435


----------



## dBSPL

sur said:


> Could it be because in case it crashes, they may not want debris to go in the hands of Turkey etc?


lol. I dont think so. This is nothing new, if you take a look at the forum archives, you can find many flight tracking maps where the US UAVs departing from Greece and Italy took care not to enter Turkish airspace for a long time, may be since year.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

MoD Russia, [3/21/2022 4:05 PM]
🗓 Top News Today 

🗂 Russian Defence Ministry launched a historical multimedia project "Archives remember everything..." (https://zapravdu.mil.ru/), dedicated to the evidence of crimes and atrocities of Ukrainian nationalists

💥 High-precision long-range weapons (https://****/mod_russia_en/318) destroyed a battery of Ukrainian multiple rocket launchers and a storage base for their ammunition in closed shopping centre. 

💥 High-precision (https://****/mod_russia_en/313) air-launched (https://****/mod_russia_en/313) cruise missiles struck the Training Centre for Foreign Mercenaries and Ukrainian Nationalist Formations at Novaya Lyubomirka combined arms training ground in Rovenskaya region. More than 80 mercenaries and nationalists were killed.

⚠️ In Sumy, a planned provocation (https://****/mod_russia_en/313) of Ukrainian nationalists was carried out at night. The Russian Defence Ministry officially warned about this provocation a few days ago.

◽️ Kiev refused Russia's proposals (https://****/mod_russia_en/321) to create corridors for civilians and nationalists to leave Mariupol without weapons.

🚛 During the day, 32 (https://****/mod_russia_en/322) humanitarian (https://****/mod_russia_en/322) actions (https://****/mod_russia_en/322) were carried out in the republics of Donbass, as well as in the liberated settlements of Ukraine, within the framework of which 200 tons of basic necessities and food packages, including baby food and vital medicines, were handed over to the population.

@mod_russia_en


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505989221823229958


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506000279917015055


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505922839785861120
Please someone give this guy a job in CIA. He can implement regime change in Russia every week


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505996793867350020

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505994802248175618

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505771186612957185


----------



## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505989667744849920



SpaceX will destroy Russian Space industry - the only thing keeping the Russian space industry alive was the EU and the USA... Russia has nothing else going on. China/Japan/India all have their own launchers ...


----------



## NotSure

oberschlesier said:


> Why use a huge and expensive ballistic missile to destroy couple of old grad lunchers ?


The strike was not about the 4 Grads parked there. It was a huge ammo depot for Grads, 2S7 Pion etc. Or in other words a top prio target and the Iskander was made for exactly this type of targets.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Spoiler





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506012047347171335


----------



## F-22Raptor

The Truman carrier group is generating 80-90 sorties per day in deterrence operations in the Mediterranean.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## oberschlesier

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Tying people up to a pole and beating them while they're brake naked is pure savagery.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506012047347171335


Well it`s war.
Actually a pretty creative way of dealing with marauders.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506011467220353025


----------



## K_Bin_W

sur said:


> (source)
> 
> View attachment 826021


They are firing from civilian area.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505982919042547713

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## dBSPL

It did not take long for Europe to return from the decision to impose sanctions on Russia. The French company Renault has resumed car production at a factory in Moscow.

The same Europe wants Turkey to impose economic sanctions on Russia and to close its airspace.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505994647268732931

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood




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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505988790023868416
Where are the yachts of the Russian oligarchs?
Latest status update...
Yacht fleet seized so far is, 2.4 billion worth, total value of the entire yacht fleet $9.4 billion.
MY SOLARIS (Roman Abramovich) and ECLIPSE are reportedly in Turkish waters.







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506012933058400256


----------



## Ali_Baba

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505988790023868416
> Where are the yachts of the Russian oligarchs?
> Latest status update...
> Yacht fleet seized so far is, 2.4 billion worth, total value of the entire yacht fleet $9.4 billion.
> MY SOLARIS (Roman Abramovich) and ECLIPSE are reportedly in Turkish waters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506012933058400256



An attack on Poland will be considered as an act of War by Russia on NATO. Mighty big red line for Putin and Russia to think about crossing.

And if they do - they will lose all of Ukraine - including Crimea because Russian airforce cannot handle NATO airpower ... Period.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505977394817118211

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## dBSPL

French report(Le Figaro): "Turkish-made drones purchased by Ukraine “The key to armed resistance against the Russian offensive force[..] 30% of targeted or abandoned Russian air defense systems were destroyed by UAVs purchased from Turkey."


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505941614472142856

***


We are getting closer to a ceasefire.

Breaking news: President of Ukraine Zelensky announced that a referendum could be held on Russia's demands and that the decision on this issue should be made by the people.

(Anyone remember yesterday's my raki analogy?)

Reactions: Love Love:
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## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505977394817118211
> View attachment 826094


it will remain close till year 2100.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505881748999180294
Why is Greece so hardcore pro-US on this issue? @Foinikas


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506022373648388097

Reactions: Love Love:
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## dBSPL

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506022373648388097


To deserve this name, it must first bite off a TOR or Pantsir staff.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505932483304595459


----------



## oberschlesier

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505988790023868416


Wow, that`s a news. I would be surprise, if there would be no preparations for a such a borderline scenario. NATO as well started defence plans.

Does it mean, that Russia does not want to take Kiev anymore ?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505778567086497792


----------



## dBSPL

oberschlesier said:


> Wow, that`s a news. I would be surprise, if there would be no preparations for a such a borderline scenario. NATO as well started defence plans.
> 
> Does it mean, that Russia does not want to take Kiev anymore ?


I don't want to be arrogant, as Polish history is as familiar with Russian war diplomacy as Turkish history. But the current Kremlin government, which I know and especially learned from war zones like Syria, is always inclined to raising hands(with poker face) on the battlefield before it comes to the bargaining table.

***


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506010598219214848First civilian "Tactical Battle Network" is now combat proven.

Starlink really made a big difference. And it also opened a new page in warfare history.


----------



## F-22Raptor

dBSPL said:


> I don't want to be arrogant, as Polish history is as familiar with Russian war diplomacy as Turkish history. But the current Kremlin government, which I know and especially learned from war zones like Syria, is always inclined to raising hands(with poker face) on the battlefield before it comes to the bargaining table.
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506010598219214848First civilian "Tactical Battle Network" is now combat proven.
> 
> Starlink really made a big difference. And it also opened a new page in warfare history.




More than 5,000 Starlinks in Ukraine now. 

Elon completely trolling Putin

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## Foinikas

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505881748999180294
> Why is Greece so hardcore pro-US on this issue? @Foinikas


Government is trying to look like a good ally to NATO and EU. One of the reasons is to have support in case Erdoğan tries something similar to let's say..."liberate" his Muslim brothers in Thrace or try to take some Islands. The other reason is that the government is in favor of a unified Europe just like France wants for example and because they they see the Americans as strategic partners and allies who would help us in a war.

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## dBSPL

America is getting ready for the fast coming drought and food wars!

Legal preparations are being made to make it mandatory for the farmers dealing with grain and pulses to establish grain silos in sizes to be determined according to the production volume.

China had started its preparations long before.

The Ukrainian war is an excuse. The world is going to a worse point than it is now. A major catosphere risk is growing.



Foinikas said:


> Muslim brothers in Thrace


Wait, what? Dude, this is truly an imagination beyond the fantasy of even the most hardcore akp fan. If you have a parliamentarian who actually says this, you should lift his immunity and put him in the nearest clinic. And please don't terrorize the minority for your excuse, whose population is only a few hundred thousand.

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## F-22Raptor

Elon with Starlink has completely s**t on Russian EW capability.

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## oberschlesier

dBSPL said:


> I don't want to be arrogant, as Polish history is as familiar with Russian war diplomacy as Turkish history. But the current Kremlin government, which I know and especially learned from war zones like Syria, is always inclined to raising hands(with poker face) on the battlefield before it comes to the bargaining table.


Sure, there is always a scenario, in which they escalate and risk a confrontation with NATO to try to break the deadlock in Ukraine, stop weapons delivery etc. There is lately a lot of dis information and BS going in the direction of Poland, this means the sactions and weapon deliveries are working.

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## dBSPL

F-22Raptor said:


> Elon with Starlink has completely s**t on Russian EW capability.


First civilian Tactical Battle Network in warfare history. It's one of the interesting topic I'll probably open a lot of threads on the forum after the conflicts are cease. Elon's team is leading a truly significant paradigm shift.


----------



## Ali_Baba

just watching BBC News just now and apparently Moscow is running out of certain food stuffs.. sugar is completely not available in moscow city now.

other food stuffs is being rationed now.

will post links when I find a link for it.

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## Meengla

dBSPL said:


> It did not take long for Europe to return from the decision to impose sanctions on Russia. The French company Renault has resumed car production at a factory in Moscow.
> 
> The same Europe wants Turkey to impose economic sanctions on Russia and to close its airspace.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505994647268732931



Regarding Turkey, I saw one report that America's sanctions against Turkey related to Turkey purchasing the Russian S-400 system could be waived if Turkey ships that system to Ukraine!! Turks are not buying that as of now. 
Related to this, a short clip which has an Indian analyst is worth watching:

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## dBSPL

Meengla said:


> Regarding Turkey, I saw one report that America's sanctions against Turkey related to Turkey purchasing the Russian S-400 system could be waived if Turkey ships that system to Ukraine!! Turks are not buying that as of now.
> Related to this, a short clip which has an Indian analyst is worth watching:


It's not even funny, it's tragicomic. Stupidy. At first I thought it was a troll attempt, then when I saw it on WSJ or something, I realized how many imbeciles are starting to make money from influential media groups.

Completely Impossible. I could write a 20-page article on why.

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## khansaheeb

Ali_Baba said:


> just watching BBC News just now and apparently Moscow is running out of certain food stuffs.. sugar is completely not available in moscow city now.
> 
> other food stuffs is being rationed now.
> 
> will post links when I find a link for it.


As long as they have Vodka then it's no problem for the Moscowites.


----------



## Meengla

dBSPL said:


> It's not even funny, it's tragicomic. Stupidy. At first I thought it was a troll attempt, then when I saw it on WSJ or something, I realized how many imbeciles are starting to make money from influential media groups.
> 
> Completely Impossible. I could write a 20-page article on why.



Yes, 'tragicomic' would be the right word to describe this bumbling, bungling senile Presidency in America when it pushes for a reconciliation with Iran to the point of De-Terrorist-Designation of the IIRC at the expense of UAE. When it reaches out to Venezuela for oil sales. When it calls the Arab countries to help with oil prices but gets a cold shoulder. When it publicly castigates its only real ally in Asia which is India. When it indirectly threatens to freeze USD reserves of even China. I see 'Bidet' (thank you @gambit !) is Splashing around. Throwing things around, hoping something would stick. But I see only $hit would stick on Europeans face if this goes out of hand. 

PS. Last evening a nice German American lady friend was over at our house. Briefly the Russia-Ukraine war came up. And her quick response was: Well, Putin is out to reclaim the old USSR. This lady, would never agree with anything any Democratic President would say but when it comes to foreign wars most Americans take the intellectually lazy path of least resistance--even if that would mean bombing the crap out of the world.

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## Foinikas

dBSPL said:


> Wait, what? Dude, this is truly an imagination beyond the fantasy of even the most hardcore akp fan. If you have a parliamentarian who actually says this, you should lift his immunity and put him in the nearest clinic. And please don't terrorize the minority for your excuse, whose population is only a few hundred thousand.


Nobody's terrorizing the minority. I'm just talking about scenarios. Right now,Turkey seems to be more interested in the islands and eastern Aegean. Our government wants to have allies just in case Erdogan or Akar try to start a war.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505896345042886664

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## Ali_Baba

Russia reveals it has had almost 10,000 soldiers killed with another 16,000 injured​








Russia loses 10,000 men in four weeks as toll of invasion revealed


The death toll - an incredible tally for a war that the Kremlin believed would be over within days - was published by a pro-government website, but quickly taken down.




www.dailymail.co.uk

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Clutch

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505915129346600963
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505915534487048192
> US assesses that Russia is directly targeting civilians in desperation attempt to turn the war in their favor


Iike in Fallujah Iraq?... Or is this different?

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## Gripen9

Clutch said:


> Iike in Fallujah Iraq?... Or is this different?


Shake & Bake.... White phosphorus. Declaring all males over 18 as military aged combatants and not allowing them to evacuate from the city.


----------



## Type59

oberschlesier said:


> Why use a huge and expensive ballistic missile to destroy couple of old grad lunchers ?



Weapons depot was located there too.


----------



## gambit

Ali_Baba said:


> Russia reveals it has had almost 10,000 soldiers killed with another 16,000 injured​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia loses 10,000 men in four weeks as toll of invasion revealed
> 
> 
> The death toll - an incredible tally for a war that the Kremlin believed would be over within days - was published by a pro-government website, but quickly taken down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk


This is terrible news for Russia in general.

In the past, expeditionary armies lived off the land. If we look at Desert Storm, the US hauled everything we need from the Western Hemisphere to the Eastern Hemisphere. But here with the Russian military, they drove for a few hundred miles and had to live off the Ukrainian land to survive. Is this planned? If yes, then it seems the Russian military regressed and is no longer a professional military. Now in 3 weeks they lost this many soldiers to an army that the outmanned and outgunned in all major aspects of a military.


----------



## Marcus-Aurelius

gambit said:


> This is terrible news for Russia in general.
> 
> In the past, expeditionary armies lived off the land. If we look at Desert Storm, the US hauled everything we need from the Western Hemisphere to the Eastern Hemisphere. But here with the Russian military, they drove for a few hundred miles and had to live off the Ukrainian land to survive. Is this planned? If yes, then it seems the Russian military regressed and is no longer a professional military. Now in 3 weeks they lost this many soldiers to an army that the outmanned and outgunned in all major aspects of a military.



It's from the Daily Mail, so take it with a pinch of salt will you..
Mainstream media in the West isn't exactly unbiased nor accurate in its reporting.


----------



## SQ8

gambit said:


> This is terrible news for Russia in general.
> 
> In the past, expeditionary armies lived off the land. If we look at Desert Storm, the US hauled everything we need from the Western Hemisphere to the Eastern Hemisphere. But here with the Russian military, they drove for a few hundred miles and had to live off the Ukrainian land to survive. Is this planned? If yes, then it seems the Russian military regressed and is no longer a professional military. Now in 3 weeks they lost this many soldiers to an army that the outmanned and outgunned in all major aspects of a military.


Unconfirmed - but they have lost at least half of this figure. Its like they thought this was a cake walk they would get done in 3 days. Looks like their military is extremely untrained and unprepared


----------



## Gripen9

SQ8 said:


> Unconfirmed - but they have lost at least half of this figure. Its like they thought this was a cake walk they would get done in 3 days. Looks like their military is extremely untrained and unprepared


Yup. I think they planned it as if it would be Crimea 2.0


----------



## jhungary

SQ8 said:


> The doner will replace the burger. What an unusual outcome of the conflict


Who tell you they are replacing the burger with doner??

Putin will order a decree, Russia will need to call these Turkish Kebab Cheeseburger and those Kebab joint "McDonalds" and they will still force the Russian say "I am lovin' it" as if nothing is happening...

LOL


----------



## Wood

Marcus-Aurelius said:


> It's from the Daily Mail, so take it with a pinch of salt will you..
> Mainstream media in the West isn't exactly unbiased nor accurate in its reporting.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506000982366371847


----------



## Marcus-Aurelius

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506000982366371847



Again, I've seen my fair share of propaganda living in the West from the likes of CNN, BBC, Sky, MSNBC, etc etc. Let's wait until after this conflict for actual numbers, if we ever get to that point. MSM wants me to believe the Russians are losing, the same media that wanted me to believe the invasion of Iraq was justified. So again, I'm taking these messages with a pinch of salt if you don't mind. I'll try to do my own research before drawing any conclusions.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Flight of falcon

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506000982366371847




26000 casualties in 20 days is like 1300 every day ….. can you imagine bodies would be littered on every street to get this type of number but yet few dozen or at most few hundred bodies were seen or photographed ….. 

It makes absolutely no sense so many soldiers died and no one saw them dying …..

But again the Twitter war anything is possible :

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> Pentagon estimates are always conservative


@Wood 

As far as I know, the Pentagon estimate were done by counting how many destroyed vehicle and then times it by the appropriate crew, so when a T-80 was destroyed and shown, they will list 3 killed. They will ignore other casualty report that may also be true and put it in the "Maybe file" Say for example, if you have 3 T-80 and say 20 infantry pushing up, and that convoy is intercepted and the Pentagon was shown 3 destroyed T-80, then they will estimate the casualty as 9, even tho some or maybe all the infantry may also be casualty.

Only individual casualty they count is body, so basically no body, no one dies 

A more closer estimate is to estimate the effective combat strength, which last report I read put 60% of the entire original invasion force as "Combat Ineffective" category, which mean 60% of Russian unit suffered 20% of casualty, which would make the casualty number closer to 10,000. But then that was 4 or 5 days old.

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## khansaheeb

Ali_Baba said:


> Russia reveals it has had almost 10,000 soldiers killed with another 16,000 injured​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia loses 10,000 men in four weeks as toll of invasion revealed
> 
> 
> The death toll - an incredible tally for a war that the Kremlin believed would be over within days - was published by a pro-government website, but quickly taken down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk


That is approx 5% of the total soldiers sent. Generals won't be happy and the possibility of a coup against Putin could be in the making.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505984269151260672
Multiple sources are claiming with screen grabs that a pro Kremlin news source made the disclosure about Russian casualties. There is no point in blaming MSNBC and CNN for this. Doing so is just a straw man argument.

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## The SC

Rare footage of actual combat use of FGM-148 Javelin anti-tank missile system by Ukrainian army​


----------



## Wood

jhungary said:


> @Wood
> 
> As far as I know, the Pentagon estimate were done by counting how many destroyed vehicle and then times it by the appropriate crew, so when a T-80 was destroyed and shown, they will list 3 killed. They will ignore other casualty report that may also be true and put it in the "Maybe file" Say for example, if you have 3 T-80 and say 20 infantry pushing up, and that convoy is intercepted and the Pentagon was shown 3 destroyed T-80, then they will estimate the casualty as 9, even tho some or maybe all the infantry may also be casualty.
> 
> Only individual casualty they count is body, so basically no body, no one dies
> 
> A more closer estimate is to estimate the effective combat strength, which last report I read put 60% of the entire original invasion force as "Combat Ineffective" category, which mean 60% of Russian unit suffered 20% of casualty, which would make the casualty number closer to 10,000. But then that was 4 or 5 days old.


Putin marched his army into a death trap. Even I find it so improbable that close to 10k people can be killed in 3 weeks. This seems close to the number of civilian casualties in the country that is being invaded. Almost like these fools marched straight into a 10 foot ditch and got buried there

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## gambit

Paul2 said:


> If I were Biden, I would've went for first strike in the first minutes of the conflict to:
> 
> Not let nuclear C&C get into actual "serious military mode"
> Catch staging forces in the field off guard
> Biden is a genuinely weak in all (dis)respects leader
> 
> Sometimes he just look, for lack of other words, confused — something which is lethal at war
> 
> The moment you lose track of the enemy strategy, you lose an ability to counter it


A popular revolution is usually from the people or being from the ground up and we can always see it coming. The people would be discontent and will express their anger. As time passes and the populist pressure build, Poutine will have time to lash out against both internal and external, and this is where the irrational nuclear response might come.

But what if Russia is de-Putinized via a coup? We can be sure that Poutine is aware of this potentiality and have taken preventative measures, as best as he can. But a coup would be fast enough that Poutine may not have enough time to lash out.


----------



## Marcus-Aurelius

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505984269151260672
> Multiple sources are claiming with screen grabs that a pro Kremlin news source made the disclosure about Russian casualties. There is no point in blaming MSNBC and CNN for this. Doing so is just a straw man argument.



I could not care less if it was a pro Kremlin news source, perhaps an individual who resents this conflict decided to upload it, who knows. We can only guess the actual numbers, but please don't spread misinformation. If you are willing to believe that the Russians have lost 10K+ soldiers, then go ahead and believe it. I am willing to wait until after this conflict, and even then i'll try to consult multiple sources myself. Unfortunately RT and Sputniknews are sanctioned in the EU where I live, so much for freedom of press.

The fact of the matter is that nobody knows right now, and perhaps we'll find out after this conflict has settled down.

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## jhungary

Wood said:


> Putin marched his army into a death trap. Even I find it so improbable that close to 10k people can be killed in 3 weeks. This seems close to the number of civilian casualties in the country that is being invaded. Almost like these fools marched straight into a 10 foot ditch and got buried there


Well, forgot to mention, in a combat action report, casualty is listed as inactive personnel. Which mean the seriously wounded, deserted, captured and dead.

They may not kill 10,000 outright, but that is the personnel unavailable to them, I believe majority of those are either captured or killed. I would say the number about 50/50

On the other hand, a few of those OSINT agency had estimated Russia lost (again inactive personnel) are more closer to 30,000-40,000 now. Which make the entire original invasion force "Combat Ineffective" Effectively saying the original invasion force is spent. You are going to start seeing Western analyst saying that in the near future.

As for how they come to that conclusion, individual agency have their own estimation.

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## Wood

Marcus-Aurelius said:


> I could not care less if it was a pro Kremlin news source, perhaps an individual who resents this conflict decided to upload it, who knows. We can only guess the actual numbers, but please don't spread misinformation. If you are willing to believe that the Russians have lost 10K+ soldiers, then go ahead and believe it. I am willing to wait until after this conflict, and even then i'll try to consult multiple sources myself. Unfortunately RT and Sputniknews are sanctioned in the EU where I live, so much for freedom of press.
> 
> The fact of the matter is that nobody knows right now, and perhaps we'll find out after this conflict has settled down.


Who can say what is misinformation and what is not? Certainly not you  

What you choose to believe is not any of my business. Try not to command people on the internet what they can or cannot do. I'll post what I think is credible. In this case, there are multiple reports that a pro Kremlin news source divulged these numbers and then got taken down.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505972650786672648


jhungary said:


> Well, forgot to mention, in a combat action report, casualty is listed as inactive personnel. Which mean the seriously wounded, deserted, captured and dead.
> 
> They may not kill 10,000 outright, but that is the personnel unavailable to them, I believe majority of those are either captured or killed. I would say the number about 50/50
> 
> On the other hand, a few of those OSINT agency had estimated Russia lost (again inactive personnel) are more closer to 30,000-40,000 now. Which make the entire original invasion force "Combat Ineffective" Effectively saying the original invasion force is spent. You are going to start seeing Western analyst saying that in the near future.
> 
> As for how they come to that conclusion, individual agency have their own estimation.


Yes, I think that captured or troops who abandoned post could be included in the number. But still the lives lost cannot be less than half of what is being reported at least.


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## Tamerlane

Fake news. It’s easy to say they got it from a Kremlin source, but now it’s been removed. No further proof required.

We know that the aim is to de-Putinise and Zionise Russia, so creating fake news is required.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Marcus-Aurelius

Wood said:


> Who can say what is misinformation and what is not? Certainly not you
> 
> What you choose to believe is not any of my business. Try not to command people on the internet what they can or cannot do. I'll post what I think is credible. In this case, there are multiple reports that a pro Kremlin news source divulged these numbers and then got taken down.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505972650786672648



I am not 'commanding' you but rather requesting you not to spread misinformation. And when you do tend to spread BS, atleast make sure you tell people that you're not certain of these numbers yourself, instead of quoting the next guy on twitter. If Twitter reports are credible for you, then I do hope you wake up some day and smell the coffee sooner rather than later. Twitter and other Western tools have an active agenda of upvoting pro Ukrainian content and downvoting/ranking anything in favor of Russia, so as I mentioned, I am skeptical of these reports.

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## jhungary

Wood said:


> Who can say what is misinformation and what is not? Certainly not you
> 
> What you choose to believe is not any of my business. Try not to command people on the internet what they can or cannot do. I'll post what I think is credible. In this case, there are multiple reports that a pro Kremlin news source divulged these numbers and then got taken down.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505972650786672648
> 
> Yes, I think that captured or troops who abandoned post could be included in the number. But still the lives lost cannot be less than half of what is being reported at least.


In fact a combat report have read on Mariupol suggested that the Russian have overstretch their force in Mariupol and was forced into a grinder with the Ukrainian troop there, the original estimate is around 20,000 defender vs 40-60,000 Russian troop, which would barely made the number required by the conventional estimation (you need 3 to 1 advantage to overcome any city defender) the combat report suggested that the Ukrainian defence force had grinded down the entire Russian attacker to a point even after taking Mariupol, Russia may not have enough troop left to encircle the Ukrainian troop in donbas, unless a replenishment had taken place.

That is evidently showing as the advance of Mykolaiv stalled and were not advancing for weeks. The Russian put the troop there into defensive mode, so they can counter any Ukrainian attack for Kherson, otherwise if Ukraine took Kherson, there are nothing stopping the Ukrainian taking Crimea, which is the base of operation of southern flank.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Can we start a betting competition so people can put their money (figuratively) where their mouth is at?

Calling bets on specific timelines at X intervals out, if a user accepts the counterbet then the outcome is loser gets banned for given time as bet stipulation.

For example: User A bets that Odessa is captured or surrendered by May 15 for 2 months of ban time. User B accepts the bet against. On May 15, whoever loses the bet is banned until July 15.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

Marcus-Aurelius said:


> I am not 'commanding' you but rather requesting you not to spread misinformation. And when you do tend to spread BS, atleast make sure you tell people that you're not certain of these numbers yourself, instead of quoting the next guy on twitter. If Twitter reports are credible for you, then I do hope you wake up some day and smell the coffee sooner rather than later. Twitter and other Western tools have an active agenda of upvoting pro Ukrainian content and downvoting/ranking anything in favor of Russia, so as I mentioned, I am skeptical of these reports.


It is not misinformation to say that a pro Kremlin news source reported these numbers. Simply because you label unfriendly information BS, it will not make it so.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Wood said:


> It is not misinformation to say that a pro Kremlin news source reported these numbers. Simply because you label unfriendly information BS, it will not make it so.


how do you know it wasn't released by Ukrainians then they claim pro Kremlin source released then removed it, if they don't give the archive link?

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## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Can we start a betting competition so people can put their money (figuratively) where their mouth is at?
> 
> Calling bets on specific timelines at X intervals out, if a user accepts the counterbet then the outcome is loser gets banned for given time as bet stipulation.
> 
> For example: User A bets that Odessa is captured or surrendered by May 15 for 2 months of ban time. User B accepts the bet against. On May 15, whoever loses the bet is banned until July 15.


Dude, this is a war, not a football game, trying to chart the progress as an outsider is one thing, bet on people misfortune is another.

If you want to do bet on something, go bet on your local college football and stop commenting on these thread.

This is low, even for people like you

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## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> Dude, this is a war, not a football game, trying to chart the progress as an outside is one thing, bet on people misfortune is another.
> 
> If you want to do that, go bet on your local college football and stop commenting on these thread.


there should be a penalty for being wrong. I mean if it turns out that I predict wrong and I get banned for it, then so be it. I just want this sort of scrutiny for everyone.


----------



## Wood

jhungary said:


> In fact a combat report have read on Mariupol suggested that the Russian have overstretch their force in Mariupol and was forced into a grinder with the Ukrainian troop there, the original estimate is around 20,000 defender vs 40-60,000 Russian troop, which would barely made the number required by the conventional estimation (you need 3 to 1 advantage to overcome any city defender) the combat report suggested that the Ukrainian defence force had grinded down the entire Russian attacker to a point even after taking Mariupol, Russia may not have enough troop left to encircle the Ukrainian troop in donbas, unless a replenishment had taken place.
> 
> That is evidently showing as the advance of Mykolaiv stalled and were not advancing for weeks. The Russian put the troop there into defensive mode, so they can counter any Ukrainian attack for Kherson, otherwise if Ukraine took Kherson, there are nothing stopping the Ukrainian taking Crimea, which is the base of operation of southern flank.


I think Russians have made some advance in the North of Kyiv today with helicopter gunships. We'll see if they are able to make something out of it or lose ground again. Must recent American arms shipment have not reached the Ukrainians yet. I hope it allows the Ukrainians to get back Mauripol and push back in Kyiv


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## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> This is low, even for people like you


lmao you cheer the death of Russians and you have the audacity to call me low? *When have I ever said anything anti Ukraine or Ukrainian in general???*


----------



## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> there should be a penalty for being wrong. I mean if it turns out that I predict wrong and I get banned for it, then so be it. I just want this sort of scrutiny for everyone.


You should be banned for it just for bring this up.

Again, this is NOT A GAME, people like you who had never seen war and what war can do to people will not know the hardship people face in war, from both Ukrainian side and Russian side.

You think this is fun and game? How about people start betting on how many Chinese get killed in motor accident every day and the winner win a bragging right and the loser get banned?



FairAndUnbiased said:


> lmao you cheer the death of Russians and you have the audacity to call me low? *When have I ever said anything anti Ukraine or Ukrainian in general???*


I *NEVER* cheer for the death on Russian soldier, go find me a post I comment on Russian death in a negative manner, all I did here is to provide a unbiased commentary. I reported death of Russian general and I comment on how they were killed and what does that represent, I did not say "Good Riddance" or something like that.

This is a bet, if you find me cheering on the death of Russian soldier, report that post to the mod and I am willing to serve any ban that come with.


----------



## Wood

FairAndUnbiased said:


> how do you know it wasn't released by Ukrainians then they claim pro Kremlin source released then removed it, if they don't give the archive link?


Because multiple sources corroborate the claim independently. This includes Moscow based News outlets. At some point you choose you believe what you think is credible. 

I don't care about what others think is credible.


----------



## dbc

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505972610177421316


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## jhungary

Wood said:


> I think Russians have made some advance in the North of Kyiv today with helicopter gunships. We'll see if they are able to make something out of it or lose ground again. Must recent American arms shipment have not reached the Ukrainians yet. I hope it allows the Ukrainians to get back Mauripol and push back in Kyiv


What I hear is Ukrainian started to counter attack from the West of Kyiv. 

Kyiv is not encircled yet, and the exact point of Russian troop of not being able to put centre of kyiv within artillery range is showing that they were still contesting the outskirt of Kyiv.

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## Marcus-Aurelius

Wood said:


> Because multiple sources corroborate the claim independently. This includes Moscow based News outlets. At some point you choose you believe what you think is credible.
> 
> I don't care about what others think is credible.



Well we've learnt that your credibility is based off of Twitter, so thank you for sharing that.


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## Wood

Marcus-Aurelius said:


> Well we've learnt that your credibility is based off of Twitter, so thank you for sharing that.


If twitter reports are not to be posted here, then this thread will not have half as many pages.

Your opinion of my credibility bothers me none. I do not plan to start a news agency anytime soon


----------



## Paul2

dBSPL said:


> America is getting ready for the fast coming drought and food wars!
> 
> Legal preparations are being made to make it mandatory for the farmers dealing with grain and pulses to establish grain silos in sizes to be determined according to the production volume.
> 
> China had started its preparations long before.
> 
> The Ukrainian war is an excuse. The world is going to a worse point than it is now. A major catosphere risk is growing.
> 
> 
> Wait, what? Dude, this is truly an imagination beyond the fantasy of even the most hardcore akp fan. If you have a parliamentarian who actually says this, you should lift his immunity and put him in the nearest clinic. And please don't terrorize the minority for your excuse, whose population is only a few hundred thousand.



Attesting to that. My classmate who works more on the civil defence, and emergencies preparedness always tells of them having some kind of "wargames" for emergencies scenarios. One of which certainly was food imports going down to something happening to major food exporters overnight. Exactly like today.

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## tower9

Meengla said:


> Yes, 'tragicomic' would be the right word to describe this bumbling, bungling senile Presidency in America when it pushes for a reconciliation with Iran to the point of De-Terrorist-Designation of the IIRC at the expense of UAE. When it reaches out to Venezuela for oil sales. When it calls the Arab countries to help with oil prices but gets a cold shoulder. When it publicly castigates its only real ally in Asia which is India. When it indirectly threatens to freeze USD reserves of even China. I see 'Bidet' (thank you @gambit !) is Splashing around. Throwing things around, hoping something would stick. But I see only $hit would stick on Europeans face if this goes out of hand.
> 
> PS. Last evening a nice German American lady friend was over at our house. Briefly the Russia-Ukraine war came up. And her quick response was: Well, Putin is out to reclaim the old USSR. This lady, would never agree with anything any Democratic President would say but when it comes to foreign wars most Americans take the intellectually lazy path of least resistance--even if that would mean bombing the crap out of the world.


Well you can’t really blame them when they ar only ever exposed to one side of anything. I blame those who control the media and information.


----------



## Paul2

Gripen9 said:


> Yup. I think they planned it as if it would be Crimea 2.0



More like Crimean War (1857) 2.0 🤩


----------



## Foinikas

Watch:


----------



## SuvarnaTeja

dBSPL said:


> Turkish-Russian trade volume increased over 20% in the last 1 month.



The latest news is that US is banning all trade with Russia. So no more Turkish-Russian trade.


----------



## jhungary

@Wood

Watch this video, what do you see?






This is Kherson AFTER Russian have already taken the town.

What you see on the surface is the citizen out and about protesting on the Russian occupier. But what it didn't show is that the Russian may have taken Kherson, but they has not been able to control the population, one may venture a guess as for why is that. but it wouldn't be far off to say either the Russian troop that was in Kherson now is not trained to deal with Riot Control, or they know they don't have the number to turn the crowd hostile.

Bear in mind, Kherson is a relatively big city, with population up to 100,000 resident (still small if you compare it to Odesa or Kharkiv or even Mariupol now) if the crowd turn, it would be a bloodbath between Russian troop there and the civilian there, and The Russian may lose control of the entire City....

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## SuvarnaTeja

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505984269151260672



Russia lost more that 50,000 soldiers.


----------



## Paul2

gambit said:


> A popular revolution is usually from the people or being from the ground up and we can always see it coming. The people would be discontent and will express their anger. As time passes and the populist pressure build, Poutine will have time to lash out against both internal and external, and this is where the irrational nuclear response might come.
> 
> But what if Russia is de-Putinized via a coup? We can be sure that Poutine is aware of this potentiality and have taken preventative measures, as best as he can. But a coup would be fast enough that Poutine may not have enough time to lash out.



There can't me a popular revolt in a country with 10 spies per square metre. Completely crushed classes cannot revolt. And I know that China is tough, and Russia must be near NorKo now in that.

For a revolt, you need a class which is either not simply crushed, but super duper crushed, so they are ready to rise up solely out of animalistic rage, or somebody higher up on the ladder, with previous grudges, and who was not "crushed enough"

Look for Deng, or Kruschev like figure


----------



## Tamerlane

We’re all sheep here. Some fighting for the greater glory of Zion, some fighting against it. 

Either way, we’re sheep. Whichever side wins no one here will will get anything. The sheep killing each other lose their lives. All of us pay more for gas. 

The masters sitting in Tel Aviv will be making all the money. 

Please continue.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## SuvarnaTeja

Gripen9 said:


> Yup. I think they planned it as if it would be Crimea 2.0



Russia planned to fight Ukraine but they ended up fighting the whole of NATO.



Meengla said:


> Regarding Turkey, I saw one report that America's sanctions against Turkey related to Turkey purchasing the Russian S-400 system could be waived if Turkey ships that system to Ukraine!! Turks are not buying that as of now.
> Related to this, a short clip which has an Indian analyst is worth watching:



Turkiye buying S-400 from Russia could be a secret plan of US & NATO to develop counter measures.

Now that they have studied it, They may give it to Ukraine.

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## Wood

jhungary said:


> @Wood
> 
> Watch this video, what do you see?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is Kherson AFTER Russian have already taken the town.
> 
> What you see on the surface is the citizen out and about protesting on the Russian occupier. But what it didn't show is that the Russian may have taken Kherson, but they has not been able to control the population, one may venture a guess as for why is that. but it wouldn't be far off to say either the Russian troop that was in Kherson now is not trained to deal with Riot Control, or they know they don't have the number to turn the crowd hostile.
> 
> Bear in mind, Kherson is a relatively big city, with population up to 100,000 resident (still small if you compare it to Odesa or Kharkiv or even Mariupol now) if the crowd turn, it would be a bloodbath between Russian troop there and the civilian there, and The Russian may lose control of the entire City....


These people are very brave to confronts people with guns with nothing at hand. As long as the locals don't accept Russian rule, the Ukrainian army can hope to recapture the city after some time.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506028136139575302

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506028862492360706

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506029057443520514

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506029846949998600

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## Wood

Paul2 said:


> There can't me a popular revolt in a country with 10 spies per square metre. Completely crushed classes cannot revolt. And I know that China is tough, and Russia must be near NorKo now in that.
> 
> For a revolt, you need a class which is either not simply crushed, but super duper crushed, so they are ready to rise up solely out of animalistic rage, or somebody higher up on the ladder, with previous grudges, and who was not "crushed enough"
> 
> Look for Deng, or Kruschev like figure


Kamil was saying exactly the same in his thread today. Revolt on Russia can only be started by the police force. FSB people have a lot of privilege in Russia and therefore they are likely to retain Putin


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505922839785861120
Interesting read


----------



## The SC

The Russian hypersonic missile "Kinzhal" took less then 10 minutes from its launch at a distance of 1,000 kilometers to reach and destroy a Ukrainian underground storage facility for air weapons and Tochka-U missiles.

Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said the storage facilities are located in the village of Delatin in the Ivano-Frankivsk region.








https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/30525-russia-kinzhal-hypersonic-missile-ukraine

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## 8888888888888

jhungary said:


> Sure, i am pretty sure since Russia demand a change, Vietnam can open their ore mine in superhuman speed, bam, the drill went in, bam, the Bauxite come out and then bam, the entire Vietnamese Banking System switch to CIPS, and bam Russia got their ore, no delay or what so ever....
> 
> I am pretty sure it will end this way.


Your bias is showing, it will happen no matter how long it takes and Australia loses a market.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505871986442096647


I already seen pics of Russians showing that weapon as a war loot.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505946616842313735

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506034054575108096


----------



## jhungary

8888888888888 said:


> Your bias is showing, it will happen no matter how long it takes and Australia loses a market.
> 
> 
> I already seen pics of Russians showing that weapon as a war loot.


First of all, Vietnam can NEVER overtake Australia in term of Bauxite production, they have less reserve than Australia, 

Second of all, I am not being biased, but you are being naive. Thing take money and time to do, both of you skipped. And then there is another thing to consider as to whether or not the Vietnam would actually help to begin with

Vietnam is LOOKING AT THE OTHER END OF US/EU SANCTION if Vietnam go do what you say, would Vietnam risk the entire US/EU market for Russia? That's a non-starter. Vietnam is not China, and even China are thinking twice before going down that road.


----------



## Wood

Russia’s Sergey Karjakin banned from chess for supporting invasion of Ukraine


Sergey Karjakin, a Russian grandmaster, has been banned for six months but Sergei Shipov has avoided punishment




www.theguardian.com


----------



## Battlion25

Biden Admin has come to the realization that the world order is over and a new one is needed..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506042660670291973
--

We have entered a hectic period and imho I was previously assuming we could wait atleast for 2-3 decades before that but this could technically mean that this new multi-polar system won't be able to sustained for much longer before it comes to a head on. 

All the previous US policies or national interests are out of the window and they will craft new ones that mirrors the needs of the hour


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506024313601904648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505765207355924482


----------



## The SC

Always on guard for protection and security!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505863223387566080


----------



## thetutle

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Serbs lucky to be Bosnian? Do you know which is the richer country??


Well Bosnia has a slightly higher average salary. but neither have an economy worth boasting about. 


Tamerlane said:


> The President of the Central Bank of Russia of Russia, Elvira Nabiullina, is a Volga Tatar. So is Kamila Valieva the Olympic gold medalist. Whatever the past the Volga Tatars are doing okay in Russia today.


True. Tatar population shrinks to 1% of Russia from being the overlords and and majority, and in return they get a central bank governor and a gymnast woman who has intimate relations with Putin. great deal, Would russia like to swap places?


Tamerlane said:


> Russia will not invade Kazakhstan, because Kazaks are not killing Russians who live there, unlike Ukraine which killed 15,000 of them. Russians live peacefully in Kazakhstan.


so if russia invades Kazakstan you will be against that? or will you support it? How many Russians being killed in Kazakstan before russia is provoked to invade? 5? 1?


Tamerlane said:


> But I understand your point of view. Bosnians need to deal with Serbs and Russia supports Serbia. So Bosnians don't like Russia.


If russia helped them we would all be dead. Unfortunately for them they get very little help from russia. We dont like russia expanding its borders beacaue it brings with misery death and destruction as witnessed over the past 200 years. They will never get to Bosnia, they never did before and wont now, too many countries in between. 


Tamerlane said:


> If someone looks at the world from a very detached Muslim perspective, like I try to do, what one finds is that there are Muslims all over the world and they've had conflicts with everyone from one end of the world to the other. If they don't have a conflict now, they had one some time in history. The conclusion would be that everyone is an enemy. But then, Muslims have had conflicts with each other, so even Muslims are the enemies of Muslims.


true, very true.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506088377405382658

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506047504827273229


----------



## Battlion25

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506088377405382658



Putin doesn't wanna talk until they has secured Novorossiya and other large junk which he will keep and try to negotiate the other part for neutrality. Basically he wants to carve up approx 40 to 50% of Ukraine

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## thetutle

dBSPL said:


> Turkish-Russian trade volume increased over 20% in the last 1 month.


these investors do so at their own risk. How do they take their money out of russia?


----------



## 8888888888888

jhungary said:


> First of all, Vietnam can NEVER overtake Australia in term of Bauxite production, they have less reserve than Australia,
> 
> Second of all, I am not being biased, but you are being naive. Thing take money and time to do, both of you skipped. And then there is another thing to consider as to whether or not the Vietnam would actually help to begin with
> 
> Vietnam is LOOKING AT THE OTHER END OF US/EU SANCTION if Vietnam go do what you say, would Vietnam risk the entire US/EU market for Russia? That's a non-starter. Vietnam is not China, and even China are thinking twice before going down that road.


More like you are naive, Vietnam can always ship the ore to China and China process them to be exported to Russia.



thetutle said:


> these investors do so at their own risk. How do they take their money out of russia?


Chinese payment system I assume.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Actual updates from the ground:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506005946153197568
Mariupol airport is 5 km from the city center to the west.


----------



## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Tying people up to a pole and beating them while they're brake naked is pure savagery.



Says the person that a few posts ago wrote :



> Such an evil people. May Russia destroy the whole Ukrain to the ground. What is wrong with these people? It is like humanity escaped them.




A person that just wished a country of 40 million people to be leveled to the ground , talks about humanity and " savagery "

~

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Tamerlane

thetutle said:


> True. Tatar population shrinks to 1% of Russia from being the overlords and and majority, and in return they get a central bank governor and a gymnast woman who has intimate relations with Putin. great deal, Would russia like to swap places?



That girl is 15. You might be mistaking her for someone else. 

The more I do research on Russia the more I think it’s a beautiful country and, whatever the past, today Muslims are well integrated into it. And official policy towards Muslims is positive. 

There are seven regions with Muslim majorities and large cities with Muslim majorities, like Kazan, fifth largest city in the country. 

Total Muslim population is claimed to be up to 25 million, which presumably includes immigrants from Central Asia. Some say that Moscow is 25% Muslim.

I’m not suggesting that Russia should swallow Europe, I don’t think it has any plans to. It could have been a friend of the West but they threw them out. 

We need to look at the future, not the past. In the future I believe that a strong and prosperous Russia will be an asset to the Muslim world.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## WotTen

Battlion25 said:


> Biden Admin has come to the realization that the world order is over and a new one is needed..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506042660670291973
> --
> 
> We have entered a hectic period and imho I was previously assuming we could wait atleast for 2-3 decades before that but this could technically mean that this new multi-polar system won't be able to sustained for much longer before it comes to a head on.
> 
> All the previous US policies or national interests are out of the window and they will craft new ones that mirrors the needs of the hour



Did Biden just say 'new world order'?
NWO is a trigger phrase to the black helicopter crowd and the Trumpnistas.

Now he's done it...LOL.


----------



## sur

West made mistake in promising Ukraine NATO membership: Borrell


The West has made a number of mistakes in relations with Russia, including a promise to Ukraine to join NATO, the European Union's foreign policy...




www.dailysabah.com






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506079247617638411


----------



## thetutle

Tamerlane said:


> The more I do research on Russia the more I think it’s a beautiful country and, whatever the past, today Muslims are well integrated into it. And official policy towards Muslims is positive.


Well It is very beautiful and well developed. Yes they are quite well integrated. It is a neutral policy towards muslims. Better than 10 years ago. 


Tamerlane said:


> Total Muslim population is claimed to be up to 25 million, which presumably includes immigrants from Central Asia. Some say that Moscow is 25% Muslim.


yes. probably. 


Tamerlane said:


> I’m not suggesting that Russia should swallow Europe,


But they probably want to. 


Tamerlane said:


> We need to look at the future, not the past. In the future I believe that a strong and prosperous Russia will be an asset to the Muslim world.


Maybe. maybe. Hard to predict. It could even be a muslim country. you never know. Depends on what Russians choose. They may choose civil war and muslim genocide, or they might be overwhelmed with muslims and merge into a muslim country. im taking 50 or 100 years down the line.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## FairAndUnbiased

EDIT: wtf? are some sources banned here?


----------



## Battlion25

FairAndUnbiased said:


> EDIT: wtf? are some sources banned here?



What? give us good links


----------



## onebyone

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506065622089748484

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## FairAndUnbiased

Battlion25 said:


> What? give us good links


is Telegram banned here? Every time I post a telegram link it gets replaced by ****

if it is a banned source just LMK so I don't waste my time trying to fix.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506122495505711106


----------



## Battlion25

FairAndUnbiased said:


> is Telegram banned here? Every time I post a telegram link it gets replaced by ****
> 
> if it is a banned source just LMK so I don't waste my time trying to fix.



You can just post them in twitter.. Copy the video and post it on twitter then repost it here


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506123705449078791

Reactions: Like Like:
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## FairAndUnbiased

Battlion25 said:


> You can just post them in twitter.. Copy the video and post it on twitter then repost it here


I do not want to use Twitter... as you may know I am in a more sensitive area of the world.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506063556743102466


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506103371136086017

Reactions: Like Like:
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## FuturePAF

Meengla said:


> I really think Hitler admired the Anglos a lot and simultaneously hated the communists a lot. Left to his own, he would have just focused on the USSR. The megalomania theory, attributed to him, are not unique when you think that America claims an entire hemisphere for itself and Japan, as well as the British Empire, were also expansionist. We come to wrong conclusions when we get the victors' versions of history. And by keep coming to wrong conclusions we, as we human beings, keep repeating the same mistakes and keep causing sufferings as happening in the world right now.
> We are too close to the WW 2 to know 'the real truth' about the causes of the war. Give it a few more decades. *I am going to stop about the causes of the WW2 so as to not derail the thread anymore. *


Hitler probably miscalculated how easily the Brits would fall in line, perhaps persuaded by the ex-English king that he was friends with. Only realizing his mistake when the Battle of Britain failed for him and operation sea lion had to be cancelled. He had planned to eliminate a list of political enemies in Britain, and probably expected British police would help him on the orders of the former king once back on the throne.

There is a racial aspect to it; with general disdain by many Germans of Slavs and other Eastern Europeans and a level of respect for their fellow Western Europeans. We have to remember that for hundreds of years, many of the cultural and economic elites of many Eastern European cities were Germans. Catherine the Great of originally a German Princess. So over time perhaps the racial and class differences were codified in the minds of German Society.

You are right that once victims should not participate in abusing their fellow man when they become strong. For a country like Ukraine, that had just gotten out from under the thumb of nearly a century of Soviet Domination (in which they endured the Holodomor) in 1991 to in little over a decade become the third largest contributor of troops to the 2003 Iraq war makes one lose hope in humanity, and explains why not many people in the third world have the level of sympathy asked(expected) of them by the western world.

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## jhungary

8888888888888 said:


> More like you are naive, Vietnam can always ship the ore to China and China process them to be exported to Russia.
> 
> 
> Chinese payment system I assume.


lol, why not ship ore to Khazhestan and then ship it to Russia. It would be cheaper that way. 

And do you think the American and the EU are stupid? They can't see the final destination of those Bauxite are for Russia? 

LOL...........


----------



## thetutle

FuturePAF said:


> There is a racial aspect to it; with general disdain by many Germans of Slavs and other Eastern Europeans and a level of respect for their fellow Western Europeans. We have to remember that for hundreds of years, many of the cultural and economic elites of many Eastern European cities were Germans. Catherine the Great of originally a German Princess. So over time perhaps the racial and class differences were codified in the minds of German Society.


All the Russian Cars were totally German for hundreds of years. A lot of European nobility were German or part German. 

At some point that line gets blurred and germans and slavs become indistinguishable. Which is pretty much what we have now. Except by name, you couldn't pick a German over a ukranian or an Austrian over a Slovakian.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506014017894350851

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506015407551188992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506114287579844611

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506113379118764033

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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----------



## Clutch




----------



## The SC

Russian missile launchers demolished the positions of the Azov battalion in Donetsk


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506016154833272842
Ukrainian missile launchers hit the positions of the Russian forces near residential areas.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506004192783220744

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## The SC

https://twitter.com/andersostlund/status/1505953650027474949


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506057591721537536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505981084785426443


----------



## Battlion25

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506014017894350851
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506015407551188992
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506114287579844611
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506113379118764033



Major escalation tying girls to pools and what not


----------



## FuturePAF

thetutle said:


> All the Russian Cars were totally German for hundreds of years. A lot of European nobility were German or part German.
> 
> At some point that line gets blurred and germans and slavs become indistinguishable. Which is pretty much what we have now. Except by name, you couldn't pick a German over a ukranian or an Austrian over a Slovakian.


But my hypothesis is that the ethnic stratification created an impression in the German culture and they used that to justify to themselves that they were a “superior race”, and therefore they would have less trouble being as brutal with the Eastern Europeans then the Western Europeans, such as the British, from whom their own Kaiser was descendant.

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## The SC

Battlion25 said:


> Major escalation tying girls to pools and what not


Very stupid move,, those are Ukrainians too,, it's like doing this to everyonr who speaks Spanish in Florida, Texas or California!


----------



## KAL-EL

WotTen said:


> Did Biden just say 'new world order'?
> NWO is a trigger phrase to the black helicopter crowd and the Trumpnistas.
> 
> Now he's done it...LOL.



Yes, many of those nutjobs will be triggered.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505835401587658762
This is big!

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505156429430374402

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## Battlion25

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505835401587658762
> This is big!
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505156429430374402



This is the major risk outfall we were talking about pre-war that if Russia wins Ukraine war this will become the norm where demos and countries slowly wanting to exit NATO specifically on the eastern flank. This is major security risk and could have serious precautions


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506045951298973706

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506101277687783430

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506064008905850880

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506111969664806912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506021923771531264


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505879286519062531

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505983976556617738

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jamahir

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506014017894350851
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506015407551188992



@BlindEagle, are these tied up and painted up and half-lynched Russians the same people who you said 20 days ago were being bombarded by the Russian military ? Except that these crimes are being done by your beloved Ukranian military.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506140677285072897

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Tamerlane

The de-Putinise, re-Zionise Russia movement is counting on the Russian people to overthrow Putin. By demonizing all Russians they ended up increasing Russian public support for the war to over 70%.

This Russian guy explains it well.
______________
The first week of the war went extremely well from a purely military point of view, but from a socio-political point of view, I know that a lot of Russian vacillated and really freaked out.

But then, the western PSYOPs made a huge mistake: they gave free reign to truly rabid and racist russophobia while, at the same time, openly proclaiming the Nazi regime in Kiev as “heroic” defenders of the West. It is one thing to hear that your dictator Putin and his Mordor will be sanctioned to smithereens and quite another to feel the overt, direct and targeted hatred against you and your people, that is something you perceive less with your mind and more, I would say, with you “skin” or “guts”. Once it became obvious that the West’s hate for Russia is absolute and total and that the “best” Russians can hope from our “western friends” is to be treated like Native Americans or the Boers by the Anglos, which is not different at all from how the Nazis treated Russians, most Russian figured out what this was really all about since Day 1 and even much before (I would argue since about 1000 years).

That was pretty much all it took to “switch over” the mode of many Russians from “of my God, what will happen next?” to “*we shall never surrender*” or, on the words of Molotov, “Ours is a righteous cause. The enemy shall be defeated. Victory will be ours” (June 22, 1941).






The many “great coming outs” triggered by the war in the Ukraine | The Vineyard of the Saker


A bird's eye view of the vineyard




thesaker.is

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506124907075497991

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## RescueRanger

One thing that is glaringly obvious is the benefit the Ukrainians have at the tactical level utilising decentralised ground forces and the NCO/JNCO leadership model which makes their forces more agile compared to the Russians.

That said the Russians have stand off weapons which they are now using. Although every arm chair general has been overestimated the timescale of this conflict.

21 days ago we were told this entire affair would be would come to a close as Russia is out of money and their military broken.

Both Russia and Ukraine are now engaged in a death roll, for the sake of the civilians and regional security- let’s hope sanity prevails. 

A lot of lessons here for military leaders and those with an interest in such affairs.



Battlion25 said:


> Is this true @The Eagle
> 
> What were the causes for the thread ban because they were major contributors


All moderation queries are to be discussed in GHQ and not in this thread please. 

Thank you.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506057502886084610

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505881675645227015


Spoiler





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505903184690229249

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506163473247612931


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506122610744360964

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506060843401691136


----------



## newb3e

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506140677285072897


what a gora terrorist!

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506166246122958848


----------



## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506045951298973706
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506101277687783430
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506064008905850880


Such missiles won’t change much on the battlefield most are meant to terrorize the population.
Much like Germany missiles raining at London at WW2.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506058982992986119


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506169156906979335


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506036073792630786

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506031431511805952

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

Tamerlane said:


> The de-Putinise, re-Zionise Russia movement is counting on the Russian people to overthrow Putin.


Do you have any basis for claiming Putin and Russia are not hardcore zionists? Has Putin ever done something and arrant Israel? Why does Putin allow Israel to bomb Hezbollah, Iranians and Assad in Syria?

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## gambit

RescueRanger said:


> Although every arm chair general has been overestimated the timescale of this conflict.


This includes our own Mark Milley, Chairman of the JCS, who said Ukraine 'could' fall within 72 hrs. We can give him a little leeway because he used the word 'could' in his testimony. Less definitive.

Anyway...I think this is another instance of where everyone overestimated the Russian military. We did it before and during the Cold War. Now, just like Britney: Oops, we did it again. But I guess it is not as bad as the Russians themselves because they had the typical double-whammy. They overestimated themselves and underestimated the Ukrainians. We have only virtual eggs on our faces while the Russians have real blood on theirs.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506010395701522432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506008882933473282


----------



## RescueRanger

gambit said:


> This includes our own Mark Milley, Chairman of the JCS, who said Ukraine 'could' fall within 72 hrs. We can give him a little leeway because he used the word 'could' in his testimony. Less definitive.
> 
> Anyway...I think this is another instance of where everyone overestimated the Russian military. We did it before and during the Cold War. Now, just like Britney: Oops, we did it again. But I guess it is not as bad as the Russians themselves because they had the typical double-whammy. They overestimated themselves and underestimated the Ukrainians. We have only virtual eggs on our faces while the Russians have real blood on theirs.


Agreed 100%.


----------



## jhungary

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506014017894350851
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506015407551188992
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506114287579844611
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506113379118764033


LOL, they aren't tying up Russian speaking Ukrainian, those are Kyiv looter, they can be Russian Speaking or Ukrainian speaking.

They were siren wrapped and tied to a post without their pants for stealing stuff to humiliate them

Personally, I think this is a bit extreme, but then some people were reportedly executed for stealing during the war, so probably being tied to a post without their pants aren't as bad as it gets?

Anyway, This was reported in the very early stage of the war in Kyiv









Ukraine citizens tie alleged looter to pole with pants down as punishment


Multiple videos and pictures have begun appearing on social media of alleged looters being tied up following Russia's invasion.




www.newsweek.com

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506005051210272769

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506000910765355010

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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506010395701522432
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506008882933473282


That second photo is old I believe it’s from Kramatorsk.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506173024860581889


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506173026890821632

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505997717440385025

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505839882144722946


RescueRanger said:


> That second photo is old I believe it’s from Kramatorsk.


Yes.. they say it was just an example..

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506135473709883395


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506169695405481989

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506162652317614083

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505802394239598593

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505756934376288265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505310810658201603

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505900719035006978

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505751294509682689


----------



## Tamerlane

thetutle said:


> Do you have any basis for claiming Putin and Russia are not hardcore zionists? Has Putin ever done something and arrant Israel? Why does Putin allow Israel to bomb Hezbollah, Iranians and Assad in Syria?



Historically Jews have been very powerful in Russia. They’re the ones who were behind the Bolshevik revolution. After the end of the USSR the biggest looters of Russian assets were the Jewish oligarchs and around a million Jews moved to Israel. So now Russia has a lot of connections with Israel. 

When Putin came to power he drove away the oligarchs and they moved to Israel. However, Putin maintained links with them. After all, they’re the richest Russians in the world. Any politician would maintain contacts with billionaires like that. 

If Putin was in Zionist control, like US presidents, he would never have developed relations with Iran or intervened in Syria. Not even any Muslim country, except Iran, has the guts to mess with Israel. It took a lot of balls for Putin to do it. 

But Putin is a pragmatist. Being part of the West has been Russia’s historic goal. He wouldn’t want to ruin that by pissing off Israel too much. If I know it, then surely Putin knows it that the US is 100% Israeli owned. 

So Putin has held back from going too far helping Iran or Syria. Unfortunately, Israel was pissed off anyways, and now we see Russia paying the price with this war. 

But now the gloves are off and he has nothing to lose. Things are going to start heating up in occupied Palestine.

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## Paul2

Wood said:


> Kamil was saying exactly the same in his thread today. Revolt on Russia can only be started by the police force. FSB people have a lot of privilege in Russia and therefore they are likely to retain Putin
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505922839785861120
> Interesting read



I was thinking I was too crazy too think that commie holdouts in Russia may be the only political force left there with a chance on pulling popular uprising.


----------



## kingQamaR

The South and East of Ukraine are fighting tenaciously against Russia, even in towns just a few miles from the Russian border. Russia has neither the money nor the manpower to fight a permanent war there, and it's extremely unlikely the rest of Ukraine would make peace on those terms either. Nor would the West and its allies (which account for 60% of world GDP lift their sanctions).

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Paul2

Wood said:


> Kamil was saying exactly the same in his thread today. Revolt on Russia can only be started by the police force. FSB people have a lot of privilege in Russia and therefore they are likely to retain Putin
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505922839785861120
> Interesting read



Also, uprisings rarely happen at the peak, or stable level of repression.

It's usually when regimes run out of steam, and ease pressure out of material constraints, or internal screwup, then all who held out think "it's now or never!" and jump at them.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## FairAndUnbiased

Some fun:

Reactions: Like Like:
5 | Haha Haha:
8 | Wow Wow:
2 | Sad Sad:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506126426696781827


----------



## Paul2

thetutle said:


> How many Russians being killed in Kazakstan before russia is provoked to invade? 5? 1?



Why Russia pulled out of Kakazakhstan so fast in January?

Because they know they can't even hope to govern this country.

Kazakhis will kill any foreign satrap just so they can back to their own clan vs. clan thing.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Paul2 said:


> Why Russia pulled out of Kakazakhstan so fast in January?
> 
> Because they know they can't even hope to govern this country.
> 
> Kazakhis will kill any foreign satrap just so they can back to their own clan vs. clan thing.


they pulled out because their guy won already.


----------



## kingQamaR

Paul2 said:


> Why Russia pulled out of Kakazakhstan so fast in January?
> 
> Because they know they can't even hope to govern this country.
> 
> Kazakhis will kill any foreign satrap just so they can back to their own clan vs. clan thing.



The cost to Russia will ultimately be far greater than any gains from conquering Ukraine. For a start, it was never a member of NATO, but now more border nations will consider joining NATO as they no longer trust Russia, so that strategy is already lost. Secondly, it's the dead opposite of a N a. z i state, unlike Putin's own regime (there being little difference between autocratic Communism and autocratic Fas.c ism or Naz. i sm). Thirdly, they're destroying all infrastructure, so really they'll only earn for themselves a virtual arid landscape that'll be another drain on their diminishing economic resources to rebuild for their own use. No country will engage with Russia again. They've lost out on dealing internationally.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

kingQamaR said:


> The cost to Russia will ultimately be far greater than any gains from conquering Ukraine. For a start, it was never a member of NATO, but now more border nations will consider joining NATO as they no longer trust Russia, so that strategy is already lost. Secondly, it's the dead opposite of a N a. z i state, unlike Putin's own regime (there being little difference between autocratic Communism and autocratic Fas.c ism or Naz. i sm). Thirdly, they're destroying all infrastructure, so really they'll only earn for themselves a virtual arid landscape that'll be another drain on their diminishing economic resources to rebuild for their own use. No country will engage with Russia again. They've lost out on dealing internationally.


there's no more border states that haven't joined NATO except Finland. Everyone else is already in NATO.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506099600691810305

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505963992837242881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505947097715073029
The prime minister of Egypt says the Ukraine crisis is much more severe than the Covid-19 crisis.. and the consequences will be worst..

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506193967339249666


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506116738043154436


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505990096629153801


----------



## thetutle

Tamerlane said:


> But now the gloves are off and he has nothing to lose. Things are going to start heating up in occupied Palestine.


How? will Putin bomb Palestine also? You don't think he will help Palestine do you?

Will he continue to let Israel bomb targets in syria as they like?


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506110193549070342


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506180372006060038

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505963839757631489

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506199798390554627


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505964471780618244


----------



## thetutle




----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506200580942876675


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505960709460529158

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506200306975223810


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505915435098820609

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505759373112451074

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506111823732346883

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506200310192164868

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506184749467029505

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506195589154942978

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506204527829168130

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506196878307831808


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506207230139551749

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Amliunion

Advancement of an automobile convoy of supply of the RF Armed Forces in the Kharkiv region:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506208007578914816


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506183363232739329

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506178203517399040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506189128504946699



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506011467220353025


----------



## Wood

Paul2 said:


> Also, uprisings rarely happen at the peak, or stable level of repression.
> 
> It's usually when regimes run out of steam, and ease pressure out of material constraints, or internal screwup, then all who held out think "it's now or never!" and jump at them.


Apparently, the army in Russia is repressed. They are harassed by local mafioso and forced into gay prostitution as claimed in that twitter thread. Not sure how much of that is true, but maybe they can have a revolution when they come home after the Ukraine excursion


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505983492529737742

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505979114301313030

Reactions: Like Like:
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## BlindEagle

jamahir said:


> @BlindEagle, are these tied up and painted up and half-lynched Russians the same people who you said 20 days ago were being bombarded by the Russian military ? Except that these crimes are being done by your beloved Ukranian military.


Please do some research before trusting anything you see. 
I’ve seen this happen in my city before I left. This is being done by Russian speaking population themselves. This is the punishment for anyone caught violating curfews or caught trying to commit arson.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506216941375086597

Reactions: Love Love:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506128032909733888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506131236783226880


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506218431816818689


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506134348445147136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506134350873522177

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506097475136126979

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## jamahir

BlindEagle said:


> Please do some research before trusting anything you see.
> I’ve seen this happen in my city before I left. This is being done by Russian speaking population themselves. This is the punishment for anyone caught violating curfews or caught trying to commit arson.



Am I supposed to believe you, a person who was ready to join Ukranian militias who have been embedded with Nazis ? Just day before yesterday was a vid of a young Ukranian soldier who proudly said on camera that he has been killing Russian speakers since he was 17.

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## jhungary

BlindEagle said:


> Please do some research before trusting anything you see.
> I’ve seen this happen in my city before I left. This is being done by Russian speaking population themselves. This is the punishment for anyone caught violating curfews or caught trying to commit arson.


Tying people up on post is a common punishment for people who committed petty crime during the war. My friend who is still in Kyiv said they were doing the same thing to thief or people who try to "Take Advantage" of other people in Kyiv. This happened everywhere, and not just to Russian speaking people.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506061569255424000

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

Many countries around the world mourn the death of Colonel Oleksandr Oksanchenko air ace.
This video was made by aviation supporters from the Republic of Poland


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506143239778316289


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506225890426068992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506225892384673792


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506226624836120576

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506224176675262467


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506137543850569728

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506229256908587008

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506198759440584706

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Amliunion

jamahir said:


> Am I supposed to believe you, a person who was ready to join Ukranian militias who have been embedded with Nazis ? Just day before yesterday was a vid of a young Ukranian soldier who proudly said on camera that he has been killing Russian speakers since he was 17.





FYI: 👇

This is the real, unvarnished, inhumane face of the Kiev regime in Ukraine. Like the genocide of the people in Donbas, this face is not shown by the so called Free Western Media.

You can clearly see Ukrainian military on the left either facilitating this or looking the other way:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506008450593013768

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506050776296210437


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506229325598756872

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505769886466940932

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506226272405495810

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506227163229532162

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506066083320639488


----------



## Primus

🙄

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505187324791074822

Cant believe people actually believe this

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## tower9

Tamerlane said:


> The de-Putinise, re-Zionise Russia movement is counting on the Russian people to overthrow Putin. By demonizing all Russians they ended up increasing Russian public support for the war to over 70%.
> 
> This Russian guy explains it well.
> ______________
> The first week of the war went extremely well from a purely military point of view, but from a socio-political point of view, I know that a lot of Russian vacillated and really freaked out.
> 
> But then, the western PSYOPs made a huge mistake: they gave free reign to truly rabid and racist russophobia while, at the same time, openly proclaiming the Nazi regime in Kiev as “heroic” defenders of the West. It is one thing to hear that your dictator Putin and his Mordor will be sanctioned to smithereens and quite another to feel the overt, direct and targeted hatred against you and your people, that is something you perceive less with your mind and more, I would say, with you “skin” or “guts”. Once it became obvious that the West’s hate for Russia is absolute and total and that the “best” Russians can hope from our “western friends” is to be treated like Native Americans or the Boers by the Anglos, which is not different at all from how the Nazis treated Russians, most Russian figured out what this was really all about since Day 1 and even much before (I would argue since about 1000 years).
> 
> That was pretty much all it took to “switch over” the mode of many Russians from “of my God, what will happen next?” to “*we shall never surrender*” or, on the words of Molotov, “Ours is a righteous cause. The enemy shall be defeated. Victory will be ours” (June 22, 1941).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The many “great coming outs” triggered by the war in the Ukraine | The Vineyard of the Saker
> 
> 
> A bird's eye view of the vineyard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thesaker.is


The West is becoming increasingly unhinged and hate filled. They did the same to the Chinese race for the past seven years. They only made the Chinese people more united than ever and made their public opinion turn against the West. 

In short, the reality is that the West is run by a small CABAL of ruthless, greedy and power hungry sociopaths who do not have an ounce of wisdom and foresight. This will lead everyone living here, especially the middle class and the poor, right off the cliff. People don’t realize what is to come because the CABAL’s propaganda machine is so overwhelming and powerful but the darkness is coming.

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## coffee_cup

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505769886466940932


Disgusting!

Well, with this set of mentality, IF Russia attacks Poland (I hope, it never comes to that), Poland should not expect ANY support from Muslims either. Especially this guy who is Islamophobe, Muslim hater. Dont come begging for Muslim oil and gas either.

I have some good Polish friends and they absolutely hate this nutter govt!

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## tower9

Tamerlane said:


> Historically Jews have been very powerful in Russia. They’re the ones who were behind the Bolshevik revolution. After the end of the USSR the biggest looters of Russian assets were the Jewish oligarchs and around a million Jews moved to Israel. So now Russia has a lot of connections with Israel.
> 
> When Putin came to power he drove away the oligarchs and they moved to Israel. However, Putin maintained links with them. After all, they’re the richest Russians in the world. Any politician would maintain contacts with billionaires like that.
> 
> If Putin was in Zionist control, like US presidents, he would never have developed relations with Iran or intervened in Syria. Not even any Muslim country, except Iran, has the guts to mess with Israel. It took a lot of balls for Putin to do it.
> 
> But Putin is a pragmatist. Being part of the West has been Russia’s historic goal. He wouldn’t want to ruin that by pissing off Israel too much. If I know it, then surely Putin knows it that the US is 100% Israeli owned.
> 
> So Putin has held back from going too far helping Iran or Syria. Unfortunately, Israel was pissed off anyways, and now we see Russia paying the price with this war.
> 
> But now the gloves are off and he has nothing to lose. Things are going to start heating up in occupied Palestine.


I don’t understand if people who pose those types of questions are truly uneducated about these dynamics or they are just being disingenuous. 

The Zionists who control the “democratically elected” puppet leaders in the west, are creating their own worst enemies. By pushing Putin into a corner and cutting off his own oligarchs, they are really setting his chains free since he now has nothing to lose. 

They will predictably now do the same to China, who will undoubtedly help Russia with the sanctions. And then they will also simultaneously set the chains free for China to completely destroy the west’s interests and world order. 

These idiots really do not know what they are doing.

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## Foinikas

Huffal said:


> 🙄
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505187324791074822
> 
> Cant believe people actually believe this


Meanwhile...


----------



## coffee_cup

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506008450593013768



This is human rights violation. Ukrainian authorities are breaking all European laws on human rights in this case by tying young girls to the poles!

What is then the difference between you and those who you accuse of human rights violations?

So sad really!

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## Foinikas

coffee_cup said:


> Disgusting!
> 
> Well, with this set of mentality, IF Russia attacks Poland (I hope, it never comes to that), Poland should not expect ANY support from Muslims either. Especially this guy who is Islamophobe, Muslim hater. Dont come begging for Muslim oil and gas either.
> 
> I have some good Polish friends and they absolutely hate this nutter govt!


Why disgusting? Why do they have to take Muslim refugees from a conflict far away? And especially when most of them are not refugees but illegal immigrants. Would you prefer to accept Catholic and Protestant Christian refugees from Europe or Sunni muslims from Uzbekistan and Turkey?


----------



## tower9

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506061569255424000


Yeah yeah yeah their suffering is the worst event in human history and everyone should always grieve for them. Bunch of Uber narcissists.


----------



## coffee_cup

Foinikas said:


> Why disgusting? Why do they have to take Muslim refugees from a conflict far away? And especially when most of them are not refugees but illegal immigrants. Would you prefer to accept Catholic and Protestant Christian refugees from Europe for example or Sunni muslims from Uzbekistan and Turkey?



It does not matter, a human is a human and if she is in need of shelter you are ought to provide it. Isnt it the civilized European values the West is so proud of?

You can deport him/her afterwards, jail him for being illegal or whatever but you can not let them die in cold or with hunger. This is pure violation of any kind of human rights.

What is the difference between these and uncivilized people? 

And why should then Muslims have any sympathy for these people who so blatantly and openly declare them terrorists and their enemies?


----------



## jamahir

Amliunion said:


> FYI: 👇
> 
> This is the real, unvarnished, inhumane face of the Kiev regime in Ukraine. Like the genocide of the people in Donbas, this face is not shown by the so called Free Western Media.
> 
> You can clearly see Ukrainian military on the left either facilitating this or looking the other way:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506008450593013768



The real face indeed. What now, @BlindEagle ?

Like the Syrian volunteers have been saying, the Russian action in which they are participating is a righteous cause.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506244057479225354

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506015731271409664

Reactions: Haha Haha:
10


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## Foinikas

coffee_cup said:


> It does not matter, a human is a human and if she is in need of shelter you are ought to provide it. Isnt it the civilized European values the West is so proud of?


But Poland isn't a "Western" country. It's an Eastern European Slavic culture ex-Warsaw Pact Catholic country 



coffee_cup said:


> You can deport him/her afterwards, jail him for being illegal or whatever but you can not let them die in cold or with hunger. This is pure violation of any kind of human rights.


So they travelled all the way from Syria,Iraq,Afghanistan,Pakistan and Libya...reached Poland and haven't died of hunger and cold? And you're afraid they will die of hunger and cold when they reach Poland? 



coffee_cup said:


> And why should then Muslims have any sympathy for these people who so blatantly and openly declare them terrorists and their enemies?


So if there was a war in Germany,would you take a few hundred thousands of Catholic and Protestant Germans in Pakistan? 
Would you take a few thousand Irish Catholic men as well? What about a few hundred thousand Evangelicals who would put Israel first?

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## coffee_cup

Foinikas said:


> But Poland isn't a "Western" country. It's an Eastern European Slavic culture ex-Warsaw Pact Catholic country
> 
> 
> So they travelled all the way from Syria,Iraq,Afghanistan,Pakistan and Libya...reached Poland and haven't died of hunger and cold? And you're afraid they will die of hunger and cold when they reach Poland?


As I said, it does not matter. If you see someone dying of cold in a forest, the first thing that you MUST do is to provide him some shelter, food and first aid (as a state). All the rest comes afterwards. And there are many reported incidents where people are not allowed to enter Poland based on their race or religion and have to spend nights in sub zero temperatures in woods.



Foinikas said:


> So if there was a war in Germany,would you take a few hundred thousands of Catholic and Protestant Germans in Pakistan?
> Would you take a few thousand Irish Catholic men as well? What about a few hundred thousand Evangelicals who would put Israel first?



If you know the Muslim history and culture, you would know that we would not have any issue with that.

I personally would not distinguish anyone who needs help based on their religion or race.

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## Ich

Foinikas said:


> So if there was a war in Germany,would you take a few hundred thousands of Catholic and Protestant Germans in Pakistan?
> Would you take a few thousand Irish Catholic men as well? What about a few hundred thousand Evangelicals who would put Israel first?



Pakistan would let some in, but it would destroy the society in the same way as it is the other way around in Germany. The cultures are to different. Sure there is no problem if westeners go to Pakistan 3-4 weeks for having a fine hollyday, but long time refugees cause always problems, everywhere, in every country.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Foinikas

coffee_cup said:


> As I said, it does not matter. If you see someone dying of cold in a forest, the first thing that you MUST do is to provide him some shelter, food and first aid (as a state). All the rest comes afterwards. And there are many reported incidents where people are not allowed to enter Poland based on their race or religion and have to spend nights in sub zero temperatures in woods.


Why? Belarus took them in from Turkey. They should take care of them. Poland didn't invite anyone. It was Belarus that sent them to the border and then wouldn't let them leave the forest when the Poles said no. 



coffee_cup said:


> If you know the Muslim history and culture, you would know that we would not have any issue with that.
> 
> I personally would not distinguish anyone who needs help based on their religion or race.


An individual no. But hundreds of thousands or even millions of Western immigrants,then you'd have a big problem accepting them.



Ich said:


> Pakistan would let some in, but it would destroy the society in the same way as it is the other way around in Germany. The cultures are to different. Sure there is no problem if westeners go to Pakistan 3-4 weeks for having a fine hollyday, but long time refugees cause always problems, everywhere, in every country.


Exactly that. If they sent a million Protestans to Pakistan,I'm sure there would be chaos. Besides,isn't there chaos already with the Afghans? Although I blame the Afghans about this.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## coffee_cup

Foinikas said:


> Why? Belarus took them in from Turkey. They should take care of them. Poland didn't invite anyone. It was Belarus that sent them to the border and then wouldn't let them leave the forest when the Poles said no.
> 
> 
> An individual no. But hundreds of thousands or even millions of Western immigrants,then you'd have a big problem accepting them.
> 
> 
> Exactly that. If they sent a million Protestans to Pakistan,I'm sure there would be chaos. Besides,isn't there chaos already with the Afghans? Although I blame the Afghans about this.



Pakistanis are generally tolerant people towards foreigners. We treated millions of Afghan refugees much better than e.g. Iran, even though we are a much poorer country.

And even though Pakistan is a country created in the name of Islam, still tolerance towards other religions is much better than say in Israel (the only other country created in name of religion). And we continously and non-stop are being lectured about religious tolerance etc by none other than these very same Western countries.

But anyway this is another discussion. I just could not stand the bigotry of that man. That blatant hatred should never have been allowed to be aired on a national tv!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

Amliunion said:


> When Irpen Falls, Russia will attack Kyiv.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506252822983155715



I hope you know Ukrainian armed forces statement actually implied that Russian troops in Bucha,Irpen and Gostomel were actually cut off from logistic lines do you?.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Amliunion

Vergennes said:


> I hope you know Ukrainian armed forces statement actually implied that Russian troops in Bucha,Irpen and Gostomel were actually cut off from logistic lines do you?.


Yes. I deleted that Post. Moreover, I will take what Ukranians Armed Forces say with the Pinch of Salf as they've been lying through their theeth since the start of this War.


----------



## Vergennes

Amliunion said:


> Yes. I deleted that Post. Moreover, I will take what Ukranians Armed Forces say with the Pinch of Salf as they've been lying through their theeth since the start of this War.



LMAO,why did you delete your post ? It's news related to the war,no need to delete. Just because it didn't suit your narrative doesn't mean you had to delete it. 

I will post it again ; 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506252822983155715
Russian forces in Bucha,Irpin and Gostomel are cut from supplies.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## MH.Yang

The thermal imager provided by NATO to Ukraine is a civil product purchased from China, and it is a low-end product. The price is only 2699cny ($425). This product is generally used in supermarkets and other places to test the temperature of customers.

This kind of thermal imager can't be used in war at all. Even Chinese hunters don't use such a poor thermal imager.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Vergennes

Soldiers from the "world's second most powerful" army looting,they even steal carpets.... An army of bums and looters nothing else.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506219794953273348

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Amliunion

Vergennes said:


> LMAO,why did you delete your post ? It's news related to the war,no need to delete. Just because it didn't suit your narrative doesn't mean you had to delete it.
> 
> I will post it again ;
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506252822983155715
> Russian forces in Bucha,Irpin and Gostomel are cut from supplies.



I deleted that because I comprehend it incorrectly. There is no point in setting narrative, War will be won on Ground in Ukraine not on PDF nor by Western Information WareFare.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506260000473325577


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506260372914950150


----------



## Amliunion

Spoiler: Graphic 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506263074185035782


----------



## -=virus=-

Vergennes said:


> Soldiers from the "world's second most powerful" army looting,they even steal carpets.... An army of bums and looters nothing else.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506219794953273348


never happened, ever, when NATO professional soldiers were at war.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506263414120849414


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506265423037276172

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## Amliunion

Freedom of Expression:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506265723445858308

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## JX-1

At this rate, my prediction is Kiev will fall in 1-2 weeks.


----------



## BlindEagle

jamahir said:


> The real face indeed. What now, @BlindEagle ?
> 
> Like the Syrian volunteers have been saying, the Russian action in which they are participating is a righteous cause.


Romani refugee enough said 😂
You don’t even know where this was first done so worry about india mate. I’ve been in ukraine until 6th of March. I know more than you and what’s going on.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506268145291509761

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Wood

Mariupol pays a terrible price for Russia’s military incompetence


Putin’s army has shown itself to be militarily inept since invading Ukraine. With soldier morale fading, the systematic destruction of Mariupol is no longer a military objective.




www.smh.com.au





Terrible tragedy for the inhabitants of the city.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506268799288414219


----------



## Wood



Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506186651751624706


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506270233413230604


----------



## BlindEagle

jamahir said:


> Am I supposed to believe you, a person who was ready to join Ukranian militias who have been embedded with Nazis ? Just day before yesterday was a vid of a young Ukranian soldier who proudly said on camera that he has been killing Russian speakers since he was 17.


Don’t believe me. I lived in Russian populated region anyways. I expected the people to not fight against Russians. Boy I was wrong. The sense of nationalism is high even with ethnic Russian Ukrainians. 
As for the azov white supremacist. It’s unfortunate the Ukrainian goverment joined forced with them. They have killed civilians trying to escape in mauripol. They should have never been integrated with the armed forces but I guess for the government it’s lesser of the two evils. 
Also be less accusatory in your comments next time. It only shows your lack of maturity

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506265327973376009

It looks like the Russians are surrounded to the northwest


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506256136504184834

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## Amliunion

?



JX-1 said:


> At this rate, my prediction is Kiev will fall in 1-2 weeks.



No. If we go by western media Ukranian Army can any moment reach Voronezh.


----------



## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506265327973376009
> 
> It looks like the Russians are surrounded to the northwest



"70 to 80% of Ukraine has been demilitarized". Meanwhile the "special operation" has not only stalled,but Ukrainians are able to go on the offensive on several fronts.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506213111279333384


----------



## Wood




----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506273579486302215


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506273166766874637

Reactions: Like Like:
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## LeGenD

One tragedy at a time:





__





96-year-old Holocaust survivor killed in Ukraine after his home was hit by Russian shelling






www.msn.com













Man who survived four Nazi concentration camps 'killed in Ukraine shelling'


Boris Romachenko, who spent time in the camp which killed Anne Frank, spent his life working to build a 'new world of peace and freedom'.




metro.co.uk













Survivor of three Nazi concentration camps ‘killed by Russian strike’


Boris Romanchenko survived three Nazi concentration camp during World War II. Last week the 96-year-old was killed when shelling hit his flat in the war-ravaged Ukrainian city of Kharkiv.




www.scmp.com





@RescueRanger

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## Meengla

Some observations based on reading from various sources:
- NY Times saying that the threshold for using nukes is lowered and Russia might use tactical nukes if and when really needed. 
- Biden saying Russia might resort to Chemical and Biological weapons
- Mariupol is a lost cause for Ukraine and they should at least let civilians leave, if not let the soldiers leave
- Colonel Macgregor insists to wait before making conclusions about how bad the war is going for Russia, saying let the dust settle
- There may well be even an Indian warming up to a Russia-China-Pakistan alignment. Indians don't seem to trust America much. This is a tectonic shift in geopolitics!

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## SuvarnaTeja

US puts new sanctions on China for harassing ethnic minorities | Travel bans over repressive acts​





China has decided they're going all in on Russia: KT McFarland​

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506212288092639234


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## UKBengali

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506273166766874637






This shows that the Russians have no air superiority as otherwise these tanks would not dare expose themselves like this.

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## Amliunion

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506273166766874637




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506275265068032006

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## UKBengali

Meengla said:


> Some observations based on reading from various sources:
> - NY Times saying that the threshold for using nukes is lowered and Russia might use tactical nukes if and when really needed.
> - Biden saying Russia might resort to Chemical and Biological weapons
> - Mariupol is a lost cause for Ukraine and they should at least let civilians leave, if not let the soldiers leave
> - Colonel Macgregor insists to wait before making conclusions about how bad the war is going for Russia, saying let the dust settle
> - There may well be even an Indian warming up to a Russia-China-Pakistan alignment. Indians don't seem to trust America much. This is a tectonic shift in geopolitics!




Don't see how tactical nuclear weapons would be any use as the Ukrainians are fighting in and around their cities.

The Russians may as well nuke a Ukrainian city with their bombs in this case.

I doubt whether the Russians would even use chemical weapons as this may be a step too far for the Russian army on their fellow Slavs.

From what I can see, the war is finely balanced and if the Ukrainians can cut off a major Russian force then they can claim a great tactical victory.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506266942205792261

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506276171792670727


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## BlindEagle

Amliunion said:


> U vas YEST’ myeNYU na, Rukki?


Пиши на русском брат!

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506277063011061773


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## jamahir

BlindEagle said:


> Romani refugee enough said 😂
> You don’t even know where this was first done so worry about india mate. I’ve been in ukraine until 6th of March. I know more than you and what’s going on.



Until the 6th of March ? What, you decided not to fight alongside the freedom-and-democracy seeking Zelensky government against the evil Russkies ?

And what do you see in this pic ?






And you think you being a student in Ukraine for some years gives you the perspective about the war ? Did you hide in bunkers in Lugansk and Donetsk when the Ukranian military was bombarding those areas *since 2014* ?



BlindEagle said:


> As for the azov white supremacist. It’s unfortunate the Ukrainian goverment joined forced with them. They have killed civilians trying to escape in mauripol. They should have never been integrated with the armed forces but I guess for the government it’s lesser of the two evils.



Yes, Azov have tortured and killed escaping civilians but Azov and other Nazis have been associated with Zelensky for years. Nazis have been present in Ukraine since World War 2. The below is from some years ago :

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## BlindEagle

Vergennes said:


> "70 to 80% of Ukraine has been demilitarized". Meanwhile the "special operation" has not only stalled,but Ukrainians are able to go on the offensive on several fronts.


There’s no offensive from Ukrainian side. Mostly hit and run tactics but the invasion have definitely stalled. I concluded it stalled in the second day itself. Logistics chain weren’t protected what did they expect? Flanks got hit

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## Wood



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## Clutch



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## BlindEagle

jamahir said:


> Until the 6th of March ? What, you decided not to fight alongside the freedom-and-democracy seeking Zelensky government against the evil Russkies ?
> 
> And what do you see in this pic ?


My city ran out of food, I donated my stocks and made a run for the west when Zaporizhia fell, I’m not going to gamble with my health when there’s risk of a nuclear meltdown This trend has started in Kharkiv, it’s a punsihment for collaborators. I’m pretty sure the Muslims in your country are strapped on the bonnet of cars if they try to collab with Pakistanis.



jamahir said:


> And you think you being a student in Ukraine for some years gives you the perspective about the war ? Did you hide in bunkers in Lugansk and Donetsk when the Ukranian military was bombarding those areas *since 2014* ?


Donetsk is 30 minutes away from my city. Wtf are you talking about? Plenty of Russian speaking people fought against Russian insurgents who have been trying to annex the region for its natural resources. I can safely say my experience on the matter is more than yours.


jamahir said:


> Yes, Azov have tortured and killed escaping civilians but Azov and other Nazis have been associated with Zelensky for years. Nazis have been present in Ukraine since World War 2. The below is from some years ago :


Zelensky is a zionist Jew. Lmao get your head screwed on straight. But yes nazis have been in ukraine since ww2 but not only in ukraine. They exist in Russia itself too. Doesn’t justify Russia bombing civilians whatsoever

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## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> The thermal imager provided by NATO to Ukraine is a civil product purchased from China, and it is a low-end product. The price is only 2699cny ($425). This product is generally used in supermarkets and other places to test the temperature of customers.
> 
> This kind of thermal imager can't be used in war at all. Even Chinese hunters don't use such a poor thermal imager.
> 
> View attachment 826225
> View attachment 826226
> View attachment 826227


Really depends on what you are using them for.

When I was in the Military early 2000, not all soldier uses PVS-14, some where using PVS-7 and some, mostly driver, uses Vietnam era NVG from the 1970. Same thing with combat optics. Not everyone have ACOG, you have it 1 in 5.

Sure, now everyone have them, or have something even better but really you need to see what they were doing with that. Front Line or SOF would not be enough (But then they uses GPNVG and PVS-14 mostly) for a driver, knock off is enough.


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506278383273000964


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## Clutch

jamahir said:


> And you think you being a student in Ukraine for some years gives you the perspective about the war ? Did you hide in bunkers in Lugansk and Donetsk when the Ukranian military was bombarding those areas *since 2014* ?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Azov have tortured and killed escaping civilians but Azov and other Nazis have been associated with Zelensky for years. Nazis have been present in Ukraine since World War 2. The below is from some years ago :
> View attachment 826255



Correct, That poster is the picture of Stefan Bandera... The leader of Ukrainian Nazi party during WWll and responsible for the Holocaust of Jews, Poles, and Gypsies in Ukraine.

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## sammuel

~

Meanwhile back in Russia , freedom and justice is blooming :

Alexei Navalny sentenced to 9 more years in prison​​​The jailed Kremlin critic Alexei Navalny has been sentenced to 9 years in a maximum security penal colony after being found guilty of large-scale fraud and contempt by a Russian court.

Navalny, Vladimir Putin’s most prominent critic, is already serving a two-and-a-half year sentence at a prison camp east of Moscow for parole violations related to charges he says were fabricated to thwart his political ambitions.


Navalny, who the court also fined 1.2 million roubles ($11,535), has dismissed the latest criminal case against him as politically motivated and pleaded not guilty.

A gaunt Navalny stood besides his lawyers in a room filled with prison security officers as the judge read out the accusations. The 45-year-old seemed unfazed as he flipped through court documents.

After the sentencing, he tweeted a quote from the US television series The Wire. “Nine years. Well, as the characters of my favourite TV series The Wire used to say: ‘You only do two days. That’s the day you go in and the day you come out.’ I even had a T-shirt with this slogan, but the prison authorities confiscated it, considering the print extremist.”


*this is what Navalny tweeted after the verdict :



 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506247694804783113*


Prosecutors had asked the court to send him to a maximum-security penal colony for 13 years on charges of fraud and contempt of court.

The judge, Margarita Kotova, said Navalny had committed a criminal offence by publicly insulting the court. She confirmed he had pleaded not guilty to the fraud charges.









Alexei Navalny sentenced to 9 more years in prison after fraud conviction


Jailed Russian opposition leader pleaded not guilty to new charges that he says were politically motivated




www.theguardian.com

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## SuvarnaTeja

jamahir said:


> And what do you see in this pic ?



She could have avoided this by stop speaking Russian and start supporting the Nazi forces of Ukraine.

If people are dumb then they deserve this.


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## Clutch

BlindEagle said:


> Zelensky is a zionist Jew.




 Next
To Understand Putin, You First Need to Get Inside Aleksandr Dugin's Head​



An Azov militiaman with a Tavor rifle Azov YouTube channel screenshot

Rights Groups Demand Israel Stop Arming neo-Nazis in Ukraine​Human rights activists petition the court to cease Israeli arms exports to Ukraine since some of these weapons reach neo-Nazi elements in Ukraine’s security forces

John Brown
Jul. 9, 2018

A group of more than 40 human rights activists have filed a petition with the High Court of Justice, demanding the cessation of Israeli arms exports to Ukraine.

They argue that these weapons serve forces that openly espouse a neo-Nazi ideology and cite evidence that the right-wing Azov militia, whose members are part of Ukraine’s armed forces, and are supported by the country’s ministry of internal affairs, is using these weapons.

An earlier appeal to the Defense Ministry was met with no response.

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## jamahir

Wood said:


> View attachment 826256



Wood outputting nonsense as usual.



BlindEagle said:


> This trend has started in Kharkiv, it’s a punsihment for collaborators. I’m pretty sure the Muslims in your country are strapped on the bonnet of cars if they try to collab with Pakistanis.



"Collaborators"... What a nice excuse word.



BlindEagle said:


> Donetsk is 30 minutes away from my city. Wtf are you talking about? Plenty of Russian speaking people fought against Russian insurgents who have been trying to annex the region for its natural resources. I can safely say my experience on the matter is more than yours.



Your experience is of a student who has just begun to realize that Nazis are in Zelensky's forces and administration.



BlindEagle said:


> Zelensky is a zionist Jew. Lmao get your head screwed on straight.



That Zionist Jew collaborating with Nazis is the same as "Muslim" Brotherhood and Tableeghi Jamaat collaborating with Western Crusader governments. You should think straight. Zelensky, MB and TJ are tools, puppets, no more.



BlindEagle said:


> But yes nazis have been in ukraine since ww2 but not only in ukraine. They exist in Russia itself too. Doesn’t justify Russia bombing civilians whatsoever



Yes, Nazis exist in Russia too but they haven't taken over the government. And last I said on the net all opposition parties in Ukraine have been banned.



SuvarnaTeja said:


> She could have avoided this by stop speaking Russian and start supporting the Nazi forces of Ukraine.
> 
> If people are dumb then they deserve this.



How nice.


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506281377506992128

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## Meengla

SuvarnaTeja said:


> US puts new sanctions on China for harassing ethnic minorities | Travel bans over repressive acts​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China has decided they're going all in on Russia: KT McFarland​



Never trust the mainstream American media over foreign affairs. While they viciously attack each other over domestic policies, when it comes to foreign policy matters, both parties and their spokesperson on CNN and Fox News know well how and where money flows in America. 
But, yes, China is being blackmailed to the point of hints about freezing Chinese dollar reserves. Same tools could be exercised against India, Arab countries and any other who would not follow the agenda of 'democracy and freedom'. 
We need this damn war to wind down. Mariupol must fall to establish a basic Russian facing saving 'victory' before a ceasefire is called and to avoid more bloodshed. Otherwise, the conflict can go out of hand and the gung-ho Europeans in this thread cheering for 'freedom and democracy' will see great instability and even affects of weapons of mass destruction. Putin is not walking away without at least a face saving 'victory'.


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## SuvarnaTeja

Meengla said:


> Never trust the mainstream American media over foreign affairs. While they viciously attack each other over domestic policies, when it comes to foreign policy matters, both parties and their spokesperson on CNN and Fox News know well how and where money flows in America.
> But, yes, China is being blackmailed to the point of hints about freezing Chinese dollar reserves. Same tools could be exercised against India, Arab countries and any other who would not follow the agenda of 'democracy and freedom'.
> We need this damn war to wind down. Mariupol must fall to establish a basic Russian facing saving 'victory' before a ceasefire is called and to avoid more bloodshed. Otherwise, the conflict can go out of hand and the gung-ho Europeans in this thread cheering for 'freedom and democracy' will see great instability and even affects of weapons of mass destruction. Putin is not walking away without at least a face saving 'victory'.



No way.

Zelensky has made it clear that he would not cede an inch of land to Russia.


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506282396383072267

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## Clutch

Amliunion said:


> FYI: 👇
> 
> This is the real, unvarnished, inhumane face of the Kiev regime in Ukraine. Like the genocide of the people in Donbas, this face is not shown by the so called Free Western Media.
> 
> You can clearly see Ukrainian military on the left either facilitating this or looking the other way:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506008450593013768



No Western media will ever show this because it goes against the propaganda: Ukrainian Good; Russian Bad.

Imagine if the Taliban did something like this in Afghanistan.... The whole world would be in an uproar... Savage Cavemen! Bomb them! .... But when it's their own Nazi Ukranian... Silence....


This war has exposed the Western hypocrisy naked for those who have eyes that can see....

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506283473983705097


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## Ali_Baba

Chechnya’s losses in Ukraine may be leader Ramzan Kadyrov’s undoing​








Chechnya’s losses in Ukraine may be leader Ramzan Kadyrov’s undoing


Analysis: Putin’s ally needs to show enemies at home and abroad his strength, but needs his forces intact to prop up his brutal rule




www.theguardian.com


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506284421439184906

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506181620079861760
I think that this fella is making stuff up. But it is interesting to read. Think of it as fiction to kill time

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506284921844908051


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506284946318573574

Russia now visually confirmed over 1,700 losses

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## Meengla

Mariuopol is trying to be another Stalingrad. But I don't know how, without direct NATO help, they can escape total destruction and an eventual capitulation. Russians have made a reasonable offer to let even the soldiers leave with their weapons. It's looking bad in Mariuopol









Russian strikes turning Mariupol into 'ashes' as West plans more sanctions


Intense Russian air strikes are turning besieged Mariupol into the "ashes of a dead land", the city council said on Tuesday, as the United States and Europe planned more sanctions to punish Moscow for its invasion of Ukraine.




www.reuters.com

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## Soldier35

A colossal explosion, a rocket attack on the Retroville shopping center in Kiev. The strike was carried out after Russian intelligence received evidence that Ukraine harbors Grad multiple launch rocket systems and other equipment in civilian objects

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## Amliunion

Soldier35 said:


> A colossal explosion, a rocket attack on the Retroville shopping center in Kiev. The strike was carried out after Russian intelligence received evidence that Ukraine harbors Grad multiple launch rocket systems and other equipment in civilian objects



It was used as a Military base. That is why its been evaporated.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506286533019586568

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506288457248915469


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506288701076291589

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## UKBengali

I think the Russians are on shaky ground now.

They have been pushed back in the south by a Ukrainian counter-offensive and are regrouping towards Mykolaiv, a city near the Black Sea.

Russians have also lost control of a key highway and so unable to surround Kyiv from the North-West.

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506284946318573574
> 
> Russia now visually confirmed over 1,700 losses



Oryx has still something like more than 200 losses not even posted yet,we can already put russian losses at 2,000.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506287100710297603


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506287355988267015

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## vizier

Meengla said:


> Mariuopol is trying to be another Stalingrad. But I don't know how, without direct NATO help, they can escape total destruction and an eventual capitulation. Russians have made a reasonable offer to let even the soldiers leave with their weapons. It's looking bad in Mariuopol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian strikes turning Mariupol into 'ashes' as West plans more sanctions
> 
> 
> Intense Russian air strikes are turning besieged Mariupol into the "ashes of a dead land", the city council said on Tuesday, as the United States and Europe planned more sanctions to punish Moscow for its invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com



There is a dilemma there. If the Ukr soliders leave Mariopol the freed up Ru soldiers would easily encircle the Ukr forces in the east or Ukr soldiers have to retreat. Unless a ceasefire in certain sectors in place to gain time Ukraine will do counter attacks in west and attrition as much as possible in Mariopol keeping the Russian forces busy. If for example a general ceasefire( it may include slowing down weapon supplies to Ukraine so no gearing up for counter attack) is reached or at least a limited unconditional ceasefire in certain eastern sections connected to mariopol and encirclement is not an issue they can order Ukr forces to leave north of Mariopol. But ceasefires are fragile that is another issue they can easily be encircled if it is broken. 

A general ceaseifre would be more durable that includes measures like no weapon flow from both Polish border and no Russian side armor pouring in and it would give time for negotiations. Russia already took large amount of land which would possibly include Mariopol as well after ceasefire.

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## Dustom9

So finally Russia is craving two or more countries, and west can do anything!


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506291746896072714

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## UKBengali

vizier said:


> There is a dilemma there. If the Ukr soliders leave Mariopol the freed up Ru soldiers would easily encircle the Ukr forces in the east or Ukr soldiers have to retreat. Unless a ceasefire in certain sectors in place to gain time Ukraine will do counter attacks in west and attrition as much as possible in Mariopol keeping the Russian forces busy. If for example a general ceasefire( it may include slowing down weapon supplies to Ukraine so no gearing up for counter attack) is reached or at least a limited unconditional ceasefire in certain eastern sections connected to mariopol and encirclement is not an issue they can order Ukr forces to leave north of Mariopol. But ceasefires are fragile that is another issue they can easily be encircled if it is broken.




Yes that is why Ukrainians may fight to the death at Mariopol

The weather is now favourable to the Ukrainians unlike at Stalingrad.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506293361526947851


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506293238306639880


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## Meengla

vizier said:


> There is a dilemma there. If the Ukr soliders leave Mariopol the freed up Ru soldiers would easily encircle the Ukr forces in the east or Ukr soldiers have to retreat. Unless a ceasefire in certain sectors in place to gain time Ukraine will do counter attacks in west and attrition as much as possible in Mariopol keeping the Russian forces busy. If for example a general ceasefire( it may include slowing down weapon supplies to Ukraine so no gearing up for counter attack) is reached or at least a limited unconditional ceasefire in certain eastern sections connected to mariopol and encirclement is not an issue they can order Ukr forces to leave north of Mariopol. But ceasefires are fragile that is another issue they can easily be encircled if it is broken.



Good analysis.
Mariuopol is a key to gains and losses for both sides as well as for a potential ceasefire.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506292656284082176


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506294401923960851


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## SIPRA

Meengla said:


> Good analysis.
> Mariuopol is a key to gains and losses for both sides as well as for a potential ceasefire.



More is the Ukrainian resistance; more disastrous, it would be for them. That is my perception.

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## jhungary

@gambit

Did you remember we had talked about who is in charge of the overall battlefield a few days ago and I have said that no one is (Well, I actually joked that Putin is in charge)

CNN did a very good discussion with Maj Gen. James Marks today about who's actually in charge of the Russian overall battlefield command (C2) in Ukraine, and according to DoD. They don't seems to be able to pin it on any particular general either.

God, that's good, because I thought I was the crazy one.






come up and comment when you are on.

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## Vergennes

SIPRA said:


> More is the Ukrainian resistance; more disastrous, it would be for them. That is my perception.



So it shows Ukrainians would rather die than be under Russian domination.


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## Dustom9

jhungary said:


> @gambit
> 
> Did you remember we had talked about who is in charge of the overall battlefield a few days ago and I have said that no one is (Well, I actually joked that Putin is in charge)
> 
> CNN did a very good discussion with Maj Gen. James Mark today about who's actually in charge of the Russian overall battlefield command (C2) in Ukraine, and according to DoD. They don't seems to be able to pin it on any particular general either.
> 
> God, that's good, because I thought I was the crazy one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> come up and comment when you are on.


So! May be Russian ground forces did more than Pentagon hoped.


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## vizier

UKBengali said:


> Yes that is why Ukrainians may fight to the death at Mariopol
> 
> The weather is now favourable to the Ukrainians unlike at Stalingrad.


That is true but in return if general a ceasefire is reached momentum of Russian attacks would stop. They can at least recover without being slowly encircled in the east and betting on time and Russian collapse of supplies and economy and both sides can negotiate instead of trying to gain the upper hand by military which seems not possible for both sides in the near term and residents will suffer for a long time.

Also if one side breaks the ceasefire the other will gain support like better weapon supplies( high altitude anti air ones if they give mariopol and in danger of encirclement) in case of Russia breaking the ceaesfire starting encirclement or Russia can convince other Eu countries that it previosly had good relations with like Germany to not to give support if Ukraine breaks ceasefire before negotiations end. There can be leverages for both sides after the ceasefire.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506295174661611529

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## jhungary

vizier said:


> There is a dilemma there. If the Ukr soliders leave Mariopol the freed up Ru soldiers would easily encircle the Ukr forces in the east or Ukr soldiers have to retreat. Unless a ceasefire in certain sectors in place to gain time Ukraine will do counter attacks in west and attrition as much as possible in Mariopol keeping the Russian forces busy. If for example a general ceasefire( it may include slowing down weapon supplies to Ukraine so no gearing up for counter attack) is reached or at least a limited unconditional ceasefire in certain eastern sections connected to mariopol and encirclement is not an issue they can order Ukr forces to leave north of Mariopol. But ceasefires are fragile that is another issue they can easily be encircled if it is broken.
> 
> A general ceaseifre would be more durable that includes measures like no weapon flow from both Polish border and no Russian side armor pouring in and it would give time for negotiations. Russia already took large amount of land which would possibly include Mariopol as well after ceasefire.


Actually, there are 2 things you leave out.

1.) The majority of firepower the Russian have is down south, Kherson front have not been moved since maybe day 10 (after they captured Kherson) the force there is putting into defensive position, suggested that they had hollow out everyone toward the Mariupol front. If I am Ukrainian, I will try to counter attack Kherson, that may relief some pressure off Mariupol.

2.) It would also depends on how much Ukrainian can grind down the Russian force. It's one thing if Russian were able to capture the city (which as I mentioned couple of time, never any doubt) but another thing is to look at what kind of force that was left after they have captured the city, if they loses too many troop trying to capture the city, They can't push, because they would have to leave behind a garrison and depending on the actaul casualty number, there may not be enough well stocked troop to move up especially when it was heavily contested during the last 20 days.

That would affect the defensive posture the Ukrainian is going to take. Because if the Russian cannot effectively encircle the Donbas defender (The OG since 2014) then the Ukrainian could technically afford to put the flank up by refusing it and basically fighting a 2 sided defence. On the other hand, if Russia have enough troop to encircle the Donbas defender, then it will force the Ukrainian to either push to a secondary defend line thru Dnipro to Kharkiv, or even all the way along Dnieper River.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506292891290943492

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506296777900711954

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506298334914437129

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## jhungary

Dustom9 said:


> So! May be Russian ground forces did more than Pentagon hoped.


No, even I can see the Russia are fighting 3 front separately and not in a mutually supported position a couple of days ago, you don't need a Major General to tell you that.

I thought you went to defence college??

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506298334914437129



Ukrainian army and partisans are attacking every supply truck they see,in front or behind Russian lines.

At this rate,losing a supply truck is even more devastating than losing a tank.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505850950061367297

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## Amliunion

Another Ukrainian Propaganda Busted:



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506284843876896775


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## LeGenD

Amliunion said:


> Another Ukrainian Propaganda Busted:
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506284843876896775


This is random footage - it proves nothing.

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## Amliunion

LeGenD said:


> This is random footage - it proves nothing.



Same applies to what Kyiv says about this plant has stopped functioning.

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## Dustom9

jhungary said:


> No, even I can see the Russia are fighting 3 front separately and not in a mutually supported position a couple of days ago, you don't need a Major General to tell you that.
> 
> I thought you went to defence college??


Russia are certainly fighting multiple fronts, biggest of it being propaganda and dis information.
Ukraine is nearly down, few more weeks or months but US ownership of conflict is certainly on a crumble.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506303038599925763

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506303039489073156

Reactions: Love Love:
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## vizier

jhungary said:


> Actually, there are 2 things you leave out.
> 
> 1.) The majority of firepower the Russian have is down south, Kherson front have not been moved since maybe day 10 (after they captured Kherson) the force there is putting into defensive position, suggested that they had hollow out everyone toward the Mariupol front. If I am Ukrainian, I will try to counter attack Kherson, that may relief some pressure off Mariupol.
> 
> 2.) It would also depends on how much Ukrainian can grind down the Russian force. It's one thing if Russian were able to capture the city (which as I mentioned couple of time, never any doubt) but another thing is to look at what kind of force that was left after they have captured the city, if they loses too many troop trying to capture the city, They can't push, because they would have to leave behind a garrison and depending on the actaul casualty number, there may not be enough well stocked troop to move up especially when it was heavily contested during the last 20 days.
> 
> That would affect the defensive posture the Ukrainian is going to take. Because if the Russian cannot effectively encircle the Donbas defender (The OG since 2014) then the Ukrainian could technically afford to put the flank up by refusing it and basically fighting a 2 sided defence. On the other hand, if Russia have enough troop to encircle the Donbas defender, then it will force the Ukrainian to either push to a secondary defend line thru Dnipro to Kharkiv, or even all the way along Dnieper River.


Leaving Mariopol would put Ukrainian forces in the east at risk of encirclement that is why it can be part of a general ceasefire deal that would make both sides gain something and accept. It would be a security guarantee for Ukraine to not be encircled and if ceasefire is broken especially western side will get populated with better weapon support like high altitude sam cover. Sams(hawk,patriot etc.) installed in west of Dniper can cover some area in estern parts that troops can take limited cover from air attacks and make counter attacks to east and south if they retreat west if ceasefire is broken by Russia. Russia would gain Mariopol and use the gained land in negotiations also during negotiations counter Ukraine attacks to its positions in south would stop and gearing up of Ukraine from western borders would stop. 

Troop losses would be high in Mariopol capture but if Russia transfers volunteers to attack Mariopol most casualties would come from some 40k volunteers as an initial wave of attack. There would still be soldiers left to encircle the eastern Ukraine forces in the north but it would take time and economic conditions-supplies that Ru army is getting.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506219574508892165

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506277015309094913
Ukraine's ugly racism and cruelty is coming to the fore. The people that they're typing to the poles are Roma people. I is unbelievable.

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## jhungary

Dustom9 said:


> Russia are certainly fighting multiple fronts, biggest of it being propaganda and dis information.
> Ukraine is nearly down, few more weeks or months but US ownership of conflict is certainly on a crumble.
> 20-30 years from now US will serve as a minnow in global order.


This is not about fighting multiple fronts, WW2 have 8 fronts, (Eastern Europe, Caucasus, North Africa, Western Europe, Mediterranean, South Pacific, China and Burma), while you do have 8 commander on these 8 theatres, but you still have 1 single person (more like an office) in charge, that person is Dwight Eisenhower.

You need a person who control the overall battlefield so you can distribute the resource and divert troop and supply to exploit any gain or alter the course if things did not go right. You have to have a unified office to take care of the logistic, deal with the politics, and basically work thru the 3 commanders (in Ukraine case), in this case, you have 2 bogged down front with no correction (I know because they are still bogged down) and 1 front that were more successful than the other, but still being tied down by the defender in Mariupol. Which mean there are no one in charge of all 3 battlefield.

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## Wood

vizier said:


> Leaving Mariopol would put Ukrainian forces in the east at risk of encirclement that is why it can be part of a general ceasefire deal that would make both sides gain something and accept. It would be a security guarantee for Ukraine to not be encircled and if ceasefire is broken especially western side will get populated with better weapon support like high altitude sam cover. Sams(hawk,patriot etc.) installed in west of Dniper can cover some area in estern parts that troops can take limited cover from air attacks and make counter attacks to east and south if they retreat west if ceasefire is broken by Russia. Russia would gain Mariopol and use the gained land in negotiations also during negotiations counter Ukraine attacks to its positions in south would stop and gearing up of Ukraine from western borders would stop.
> 
> Troop losses would be high in Mariopol capture but if Russia transfers volunteers to attack Mariopol most casualties would come from some 40k volunteers as an initial wave of attack. There would still be soldiers left to encircle the eastern Ukraine forces in the north but it would take time and economic conditions-supplies that Ru army is getting.


Russia will have mercenaries, not volunteers.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506303320050352133
Note : on the BMP3 is written "AXMAT",most likely belonged to Chechen forces.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506304433378197505


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506266194650841094

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506305387418591234


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506306060411359232

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Foinikas

Vergennes said:


> Soldiers from the "world's second most powerful" army looting,they even steal carpets.... An army of bums and looters nothing else.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506219794953273348


Should I remind you of the French Army in Russia in 1812?

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506306110835339265

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## Hassan Al-Somal

More pictures from Ukraine on their cruelty.....



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506277015309094913


----------



## Vergennes

Foinikas said:


> Should I remind you of the French Army in Russia in 1812?



You are citing an era where it was common for armies to feed themselves on conquered territories when modern logistic means we know today were unavailable. We are in 2022 not 1812.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506307058420830218

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506266194650841094




Where is the proof that this happened in Ukraine? Just posting random photos doesn't prove anyything.

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## jhungary

vizier said:


> Leaving Mariopol would put Ukrainian forces in the east at risk of encirclement that is why it can be part of a general ceasefire deal that would make both sides gain something and accept. It would be a security guarantee for Ukraine to not be encircled and if ceasefire is broken especially western side will get populated with better weapon support like high altitude sam cover. Sams(hawk,patriot etc.) installed in west of Dniper can cover some area in estern parts that troops can take limited cover from air attacks and make counter attacks to east and south if they retreat west if ceasefire is broken by Russia. Russia would gain Mariopol and use the gained land in negotiations also during negotiations counter Ukraine attacks to its positions in south would stop and gearing up of Ukraine from western borders would stop.
> 
> Troop losses would be high in Mariopol capture but if Russia transfers volunteers to attack Mariopol most casualties would come from some 40k volunteers as an initial wave of attack. There would still be soldiers left to encircle the eastern Ukraine forces in the north but it would take time and economic conditions-supplies that Ru army is getting.


First off, in my opinion, regardless of the situation in Mariupol, Russian offensive in Kyiv probably is only going to stay where it was, or even being counter attacked, so no matter how this goes, I don't think Russia have enough combat power to take anything West of Dnieper river, unless they start another general mobilisation, which they would have to raise a similar amount of troop. They can do that, but it would take a long time to move, train and deploy them all to the part of battlefield you want. 

I know if the Russian can capture Mariupol, they would have soldier to encircle the Donbas defender, but the question is how many can they get. There are roughly 40,000 troop in Donbas (Latest intel suggest there were 6 regiments) and they are in defensive position that was made since 2014, in a conventional way of thinking, you need 3 to 1 to overcome a static defence, which mean you will need approximately 120,000 troop to be able to pull that off, that would mean the Russian would need to get out of the Mariupol siege relatively unharmed. 

Now, I don't know how much Russian lost, but I don't think from the intensity of fighting I have heard that Russian troop were relatively unharmed. They would need to draw in more troop for that particular defensive position alone, so they may not be in an "Advantageous" position as we thought they would have.


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## Foinikas

Vergennes said:


> You are citing an era where it was common for armies to feed themselves on conquered territories when modern logistic means we know today were unavailable. We are in 2022 not 1812.


But French Army "civilized"...revolution,Egalite,Fraternite etc.


----------



## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Where is the proof that this happened in Ukraine? Just posting random photos doesn't prove anyything.



You are among the ones swallowing every bit of Russian claims without even fast checking and yet everytime something coming from the Ukrainian side you are like "muh where are the proooffzzzz".

The soldier on the right is clearly wearing an Ukrainian uniform and armband.

Stop being delusional. I know western haters like you have hard time to swallow Russia's super duper army is being trashed left and right in Ukraine after years of brainwashing trying to convince people in Europe but most importantely in third world countries that Russian armed forces are so powerful and could steamroll Europe in 48 hours.

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## mmr

Vergennes said:


> You are among the ones swallowing every bit of Russian claims without even fast checking and yet everytime something coming from the Ukrainian side you are like "muh where are the proooffzzzz".
> 
> The soldier on the right is clearly wearing an Ukrainian uniform and armband. Stop being delusional. I know western haters like you have hard time to swallow Russia's super duper army is being trashed left and right in Ukraine after years of brainwashing trying to convince people in Europe but most importantely in third world countries that Russian armed forces are so powerful and could steamroll Europe in 48 hours.


Fully agree.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506308128769552394

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## Vergennes

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506303320050352133
> Note : on the BMP3 is written "AXMAT",most likely belonged to Chechen forces.





Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506276444015575054


----------



## Amliunion

Spoiler: Graphic 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506309404475465732


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506308141360848897

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506310043125358594


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## Vergennes

Many chechens neutralized in Ukraine. How to recognize it ?

St George's ribbon covering their helmets,mainly seen on Chechens in Ukraine.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> You are among the ones swallowing every bit of Russian claims without even fast checking and yet everytime something coming from the Ukrainian side you are like "muh where are the proooffzzzz".
> 
> The soldier on the right is clearly wearing an Ukrainian uniform and armband.
> 
> Stop being delusional. I know western haters like you have hard time to swallow Russia's super duper army is being trashed left and right in Ukraine after years of brainwashing trying to convince people in Europe but most importantely in third world countries that Russian armed forces are so powerful and could steamroll Europe in 48 hours.



Still no proof that that photo was taken in Ukraine. Random photo doesn't prove anything, bro.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506310783596208135


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506275850626514966
Hope this prediction comes true


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

🇷🇺🇺🇦 Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

▫️Units of the Russian Armed Forces, pursuing the retreating units of the 54th Separate Mechanized Brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, advanced another 4 kilometers during the day and reached Novomikhailovka.

▫️The grouping of troops of the Donetsk People's Republic took control of Verkhnetoretskoe and continues to attack units of the 25th Airborne Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. 2 tanks, 5 infantry fighting vehicles, 3 field artillery guns and 7 all-terrain vehicles were destroyed.

💥On March 22, high-precision long-range long-range air and sea-based weapons attacked Ukraine's military infrastructure. Large fuel depots of Ukrainian troops in Lisichansk and Kramatorsk, missile and artillery weapons depot in Druzhkovka and ammunition depots in Nadezhdinka and Novoaleksandrovka were destroyed.

✈️💥 Operational-tactical and army aviation hit 83 military assets of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Among them: 4 command posts, 4 anti-aircraft missile systems, 3 missile and artillery weapons depots, as well as 68 areas of military equipment concentration.

💥The Russian air defence means shot down 6 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles in the air, including 1 Bayraktar TB-2 near Merefa, Kharkov region.

💥In total, 236 unmanned aerial vehicles, 185 anti-aircraft missile systems, 1,547 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 154 multiple launch rocket systems, 612 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,343 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.

#Russia #Ukraine #Briefing 
@mod_russia_en

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Still no proof that that photo was taken in Ukraine. Random photo doesn't prove anything, bro.



Yeah yeah the ukrainian uniform on the right,the left guy having an AK74U which are in service in mass numbers within Ukrainian armed forces.... Show me proof it wasn't in Ukraine. Try to prove it was taken anywhere else. Of course you wouldn't.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> 🇷🇺🇺🇦 Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry
> 
> ▫️Units of the Russian Armed Forces, pursuing the retreating units of the 54th Separate Mechanized Brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, advanced another 4 kilometers during the day and reached Novomikhailovka.
> 
> ▫️The grouping of troops of the Donetsk People's Republic took control of Verkhnetoretskoe and continues to attack units of the 25th Airborne Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. 2 tanks, 5 infantry fighting vehicles, 3 field artillery guns and 7 all-terrain vehicles were destroyed.
> 
> 💥On March 22, high-precision long-range long-range air and sea-based weapons attacked Ukraine's military infrastructure. Large fuel depots of Ukrainian troops in Lisichansk and Kramatorsk, missile and artillery weapons depot in Druzhkovka and ammunition depots in Nadezhdinka and Novoaleksandrovka were destroyed.
> 
> ✈️💥 Operational-tactical and army aviation hit 83 military assets of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Among them: 4 command posts, 4 anti-aircraft missile systems, 3 missile and artillery weapons depots, as well as 68 areas of military equipment concentration.
> 
> 💥The Russian air defence means shot down 6 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles in the air, including 1 Bayraktar TB-2 near Merefa, Kharkov region.
> 
> 💥In total, 236 unmanned aerial vehicles, 185 anti-aircraft missile systems, 1,547 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 154 multiple launch rocket systems, 612 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,343 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.
> 
> #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing
> @mod_russia_en



Any proofs backing Russian claims ? (just following your logic huh)

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506030489982840837

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Yeah yeah the ukrainian uniform on the right,the left guy having an AK74U which are in service in mass numbers within Ukrainian armed forces.... Show me proof it wasn't in Ukraine. Try to prove it was taken anywhere else. Of course you wouldn't.
> 
> 
> 
> Any proofs backing Russian claims ? (just following your logic huh)




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506142961683292164

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506208007578914816


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506312648094322689

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## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> 1,547 tanks


Hmmm thats like all Ukraine tanks they had 

😂

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506311237986050048


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505881502038773762

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506316192440590341


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## Vergennes

bobo6661 said:


> Hmmm thats like all Ukraine tanks they had
> 
> 😂



Only take Oryx's figures,even though not all losses of the conflict are counted at least a maximum of visually confirmed losses are,because both sides are exaggerating losses.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506316818306285575


----------



## jamahir

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506292656284082176



White House troll with a cringey name, your former president George Bush jr and his comrade Tony B'liar are still on the arrest warrant issued by the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission on charges of war crimes against Iraq. And since you mention hospital supposedly bombed by the Russians may I remind you of the hospital in Baghdad bombed by the Americans in 1991 ?



Vergennes said:


> So it shows Ukrainians would rather die than be under Russian domination.



Then so be it. And I am talking about Zelenksy's Nazis.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506277015309094913
> Ukraine's ugly racism and cruelty is coming to the fore. The people that they're typing to the poles are Roma people. I is unbelievable.



Your post had a Haha react by @mmr who's a Bangladeshi - a Brown person. Doesn't he know of the Ukranian Nazis mistreating the Browns and the Blacks ? Does Mmr think he's Nordic white ?



Vergennes said:


> The soldier on the right is clearly wearing an Ukrainian uniform and armband.



And the soldier in the picture with a Roma girl tied to a pole and her face sprayed green, that soldier watching on had a Ukranian patch on the arm.

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> No, even I can see the Russia are fighting 3 front separately and not in a mutually supported position a couple of days ago, you don't need a Major General to tell you that.
> 
> I thought you went to defence college??





jhungary said:


> This is not about fighting multiple fronts, WW2 have 8 fronts, (Eastern Europe, Caucasus, North Africa, Western Europe, Mediterranean, South Pacific, China and Burma), while you do have 8 commander on these 8 theatres, but you still have 1 single person (more like an office) in charge, that person is Dwight Eisenhower.
> 
> You need a person who control the overall battlefield so you can distribute the resource and divert troop and supply to exploit any gain or alter the course if things did not go right. You have to have a unified office to take care of the logistic, deal with the politics, and basically work thru the 3 commanders (in Ukraine case), in this case, you have 2 bogged down front with no correction (I know because they are still bogged down) and 1 front that were more successful than the other, but still being tied down by the defender in Mariupol. Which mean there are no one in charge of all 3 battlefield.



Their FOB for the south is Crimea — now likely lightly guarded because they threw everything on southern front into Marioupol.

And there is potential for cutoff.

Then, their only resupply route will be from Russia through M4.

When Russians invaded in 2014, I instantly noticed that they likely did it for a future supply route.

Russia has s**t roads, and it did not change in 25 years, so they are tied to staging with rail access.







If I were a Ukrainian general:

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506319418569154561

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506313259447726094

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## gambit

jhungary said:


> @gambit
> 
> Did you remember we had talked about who is in charge of the overall battlefield a few days ago and I have said that no one is (Well, I actually joked that Putin is in charge)
> 
> CNN did a very good discussion with Maj Gen. James Marks today about who's actually in charge of the Russian overall battlefield command (C2) in Ukraine, and according to DoD. They don't seems to be able to pin it on any particular general either.
> 
> God, that's good, because I thought I was the crazy one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> come up and comment when you are on.


I pulled out a Cold War era printed doc from my household goods storage about Soviet battlefield doctrine regarding the use of airpower. Something about the VKS behavior bugged me.

Ref the use of airpower in this war, the Russian air commander seems to have regressed back to his Soviet predecessors: *airborne artillery*. Basically, for this war, the Russian air commander is operationally, not just organizationally, under the Russian ground commander, whereas with Desert Storm, while Norman Schwarzkopf was the overall commander, Schwarzkopf just inform his air commander Charles Horner what he wanted and let Horner worked out the details. Whoever is the Russian air commander here, he seems to be waiting...and waiting...and waiting...for his orders.

*Airborne artillery* was the phrase I was looking for. The concept is old and operationally, it is unadaptable or at best limited utility to technological progress. _Philosophically,_ _aviation affects time_ (the actual phrase in this doc) so when the Soviets put the air commander under the ground commander, the entire pace of the war depends on how much knowledge the ground commander have about airpower in general. As such, Soviet airpower tends to attack targets that can affect the battle at best 24 hrs in the future. US airpower doctrine going back to the WW II US Army Air Corps days, attacked oil refineries and ballbearing factories, attacked targets that can affect battles weeks and months in the future, meaning crude oil do not become lubricants and avgas until days or weeks of refinement, then more time transport to the front. This is why USAAC commanders felt they had to be institutionally separated from the Army to develop their own war doctrines. So had there been a war on CONEUR, Soviet airpower doctrine would have the VKS cleared the battlefields before the Soviet Army as Army units, like armor, moves below. Strategic targets would fall under the Soviet Rocket Forces, re ICBMs.

For the Russian military today and here in Ukraine, it seems that while the VKS is apart from the Russian Army on paper, doctrinally, there has been little change since the Cold War yrs. The *airborne artillery* concept do not, or cannot, compensate for advances like drones, which are essentially airborne guerrilla warfare against advancing ground forces. If armor, for example, is slowed down for any reason, the air force must be proportionally restrained. But what if the Ukrainian Air Force managed to put up a fight? Then until the VKS achieve *LOCAL* air superiority, meaning maybe a few dozen klicks out front, the Russian Army must be proportionally limited. Currently, the Ukrainian Air Force is too few in numbers. So it seems good fortune for the Russian military that Ukrainian airpower is nothing like US/NATO.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506320598401785861


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## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506308128769552394


no worries

Russians will keep stealing chickens from Ukrainian villages

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506306060411359232


The last thing missing:

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## jamahir

mmr said:


> no worries
> 
> Russians will keep stealing chickens from Ukrainian villages



And why do you hate Russians ?

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## thetutle

There are Russian media reports that western countries supermarkets are empty from sanctions, and this includes australia. 

My goodness. Thats just a new level of propaganda. 

I cant embed the article here for some reason. Its a Russian source.

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## dBSPL

thetutle said:


> these investors do so at their own risk. How do they take their money out of russia?


It is not a problem to take the money out of Russia, the important thing is to get the money into Russia.


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## Tamerlane

thetutle said:


> How? will Putin bomb Palestine also? You don't think he will help Palestine do you?
> 
> Will he continue to let Israel bomb targets in syria as they like?



It's early days yet, but if Putin survives--which is most likely--he's going to increase support for Syria and Iran. That's why Israelis are crying like babies in fear of what's coming next. What's going to happen to them won't be pretty.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506113379118764033

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## Primus

bobo6661 said:


> Hmmm thats like all Ukraine tanks they had
> 
> 😂


Ukraine has over 2596 tanks. Also that figure includes other armoured vehicles as well


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## dBSPL

Tamerlane said:


> It's early days yet, but if Putin survives--which is most likely--he's going to increase support for Syria and Iran. That's why Israelis are crying like babies in fear of what's coming next. What's going to happen to them won't be pretty.


Israel and Turkey are currently the two key countries in the truce diplomacy between Russia and Ukraine. Neither Turkey nor Israel took sides in the war.

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## jamahir

thetutle said:


> There are Russian media reports that western countries supermarkets are empty from sanctions, and this includes australia.
> 
> My goodness. Thats just a new level of propaganda.
> 
> I cant embed the article here for some reason. Its a Russian source.



Well, after all the Russians can't compete with NATO governments in the art of false propaganda.


----------



## LeGenD

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> 🇷🇺🇺🇦 Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry
> 
> ▫️Units of the Russian Armed Forces, pursuing the retreating units of the 54th Separate Mechanized Brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, advanced another 4 kilometers during the day and reached Novomikhailovka.
> 
> ▫️The grouping of troops of the Donetsk People's Republic took control of Verkhnetoretskoe and continues to attack units of the 25th Airborne Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. 2 tanks, 5 infantry fighting vehicles, 3 field artillery guns and 7 all-terrain vehicles were destroyed.
> 
> 💥On March 22, high-precision long-range long-range air and sea-based weapons attacked Ukraine's military infrastructure. Large fuel depots of Ukrainian troops in Lisichansk and Kramatorsk, missile and artillery weapons depot in Druzhkovka and ammunition depots in Nadezhdinka and Novoaleksandrovka were destroyed.
> 
> ✈️💥 Operational-tactical and army aviation hit 83 military assets of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Among them: 4 command posts, 4 anti-aircraft missile systems, 3 missile and artillery weapons depots, as well as 68 areas of military equipment concentration.
> 
> 💥The Russian air defence means shot down 6 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles in the air, including 1 Bayraktar TB-2 near Merefa, Kharkov region.
> 
> 💥In total, 236 unmanned aerial vehicles, 185 anti-aircraft missile systems, 1,547 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 154 multiple launch rocket systems, 612 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,343 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.
> 
> #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing
> @mod_russia_en


Russian figures suggest that much of the Ukrainian military is wiped out by now. Do you think this is the case?

Independent sources cast a completely different picture:









Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine







www.oryxspioenkop.com





It would be better to stick to independent sources.



bobo6661 said:


> Hmmm thats like all Ukraine tanks they had
> 
> 😂


Dear, you have common sense. Appreciated.

Just wait for Russians to destroy more Ukrainians tanks than Ukraine ever had...

- - - -

Russia lost a prototype MBT in Ukraine:









Russia’s Only Prototype T-80UM2 Tank Was Destroyed In Ukraine


The T-80UM2 never led to quantity production and its presence in Ukraine remains mysterious.




www.thedrive.com





T-80UM2 was one of its kind.

Now where is the mighty Armata? Anybody?

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## Tamerlane

dBSPL said:


> Israel and Turkey are currently the two key countries in the truce diplomacy between Russia and Ukraine. Neither Turkey nor Israel took sides in the war.



Israel has a habit of letting others do the dirty work, while it sits back and acts innocent. We all know that all the Anglo-Zionist wars in Iraq, Syria, Libya etc. are instigated and supported by Israeli interests in the US and the West. So is this war on Russia.

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## Amliunion

Can anyone shed some light on this? I mean how is this helping in current war? 

🇷🇺🚀 Space rocket "Soyuz-2.1a" joined the action to support Russian military personnel #ZаНаших !


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506328618640805890
@LeGenD @RescueRanger ?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506329034837442565

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506329034837442565


Make it back home safe, soldier

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## Tamerlane

Clutch said:


> Rights Groups Demand Israel Stop Arming neo-Nazis in Ukraine​Human rights activists petition the court to cease Israeli arms exports to Ukraine since some of these weapons reach neo-Nazi elements in Ukraine’s security forces
> 
> John Brown
> Jul. 9, 2018
> 
> A group of more than 40 human rights activists have filed a petition with the High Court of Justice, demanding the cessation of Israeli arms exports to Ukraine.
> 
> They argue that these weapons serve forces that openly espouse a neo-Nazi ideology and cite evidence that the right-wing Azov militia, whose members are part of Ukraine’s armed forces, and are supported by the country’s ministry of internal affairs, is using these weapons.
> 
> An earlier appeal to the Defense Ministry was met with no response.



People who say that because Zelensky is a Zionist Jew he couldn't be supporting neo-nazis. The reality is that Zelensky's backer, the Jewish Ukranian oligarch, Ihor Kolomoisky, is also the main backer of the neo-nazis.


___________________________________________________
*Ihor Kolomoisky was widely seen as one of Zelensky’s main backers* and his channel boosted Zelensky’s visibility and popularity ahead of the April election that saw him defeat Poroshenko.
___________________________________________________


*Before becoming part of Ukraine’s armed forces, who funded Azov?*

The unit received backing from Ukraine’s interior minister in 2014, as the government had recognised its own military was too weak to fight off the pro-Russian separatists and relied on paramilitary volunteer forces.

These forces were privately funded by oligarchs – *the most known being Igor Kolomoisky*, an energy magnate billionaire and then-governor of the Dnipropetrovska region.

In addition to Azov, Kolomoisky funded other volunteer battalions such as the Dnipro 1 and Dnipro 2, Aidar and Donbas units.









Profile: Who are Ukraine’s far-right Azov regiment?


The far-right neo-Nazi group has expanded to be part of Ukraine’s armed forces, a street militia and a political party.




www.aljazeera.com

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506331299572817926

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506327260504145921


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506332164387966983


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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506329034837442565



Remember ;

Everyone was masturbating here on the news that "according to Russian sources,he was killed 20 minutes after getting into battle in Mariupol!!!". And some fell for it. lmao.

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## Type59

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506331299572817926



I take it uaf command only gave them older gear. The more modern tactical gear and weaponry like nlaw are for other units😜


----------



## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506329034837442565


Um..... There are a lot of pictured showing the obliterated building which the foreign legion stayed in when it was hit.... That wasnt russian propaganda.

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## Vergennes



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## FairAndUnbiased

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506266942205792261



Trading Russian citizenship for... Ukrainian...

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## mmr

Vergennes said:


> View attachment 826320


How this crying dude any different then putler's fan boys here in PDF

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## Wood

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Trading Russian citizenship for... Ukrainian...











Czech PM suggests EU countries could grant asylum to Russian deserters







www.euractiv.com





^ This guy has the right idea to encourage desertion

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## dBSPL

Don't take it seriously... just for laugh.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506184322826579970

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506338760635473922

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## Ali_Baba

The Russian army has run out of time​








The Russian army has run out of time


This first phase of the war is over. Russian forces will have to regroup and find a different strategy




www.telegraph.co.uk

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## jamal18

Huffal said:


> Um..... There are a lot of pictured showing the obliterated building which the foreign legion stayed in when it was hit.... That wasnt russian propaganda.


Saw a few twitter feed from survivors. Don't know about the casualties, but I believe that they were significant.


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## zartosht

One of the biggest lies western propaganda seems to be feeding people (and very visible on this forum with shitstream media consumers/spammers)

Is that the russians will just accept defeat, go home and have putin admit he lost and the ukies and west won. While everyone on twitter pats themselves on the back for their major contributions and song kumbaya…

This maybe a cultural thing. But in eastern cultures, dying while taking out your enemy with you is 10000000000000x times more desirable then accepting defeat and humiliation from that same enemy. 

Lets make this very clear and in language people understand:

*Russia will nuke ukraine and western europe into a radioactive parking lot for the next 200 years, before it accepts defeat and humiliation in ukraine.*

These dumb euros are really playing with fire on their master washingtons behalf. And its pathetic to see

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## kingQamaR

Does anybody really need evidence this was poorly planned? Seriously, look at the result or rather the lack of result: 140,000 Russian soldiers + Chechen hunters + Belarusian soldiers + Syrian mercenaries. Incompetent and coward Putin thought it would be over within 3 days. It's week 4 and the Russians are nowhere near to conquer Ukraine. All they've done is bomb civilian buildings and killing children, women and ederly people

Nukes west have to

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## Meengla

zartosht said:


> One of the biggest lies western propaganda seems to be feeding people (and very visible on this forum with shitstream media consumers/spammers)
> 
> Is that the russians will just accept defeat, go home and have putin admit he lost and the ukies and west won. While everyone on twitter pats themselves on the back for their major contributions and song kumbaya…
> 
> This maybe a cultural thing. But in eastern cultures, dying while taking out your enemy with you is 10000000000000x times more desirable then accepting defeat and humiliation from that same enemy.
> 
> Lets make this very clear and in language people understand:
> 
> *Russia will nuke ukraine and western europe into a radioactive parking lot for the next 200 years, before it accepts defeat and humiliation in ukraine.*
> 
> These dumb euros are really playing with fire on their master washingtons behalf. And its pathetic to see



Unfortunately you are right. Putin can't walk away looking defeated. And there lies the biggest danger in this war. Maybe the first time in human history humanity or at least millions of people are afraid of the loser!


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## kingQamaR

That's why Ukrainians need to hold off for a little longer. I don't care what Russian trolls here say, but russian troops are demoralized, and have problems with fuel, food and ammo. Many realized that the population doesn't want them there and that they were lied to. Soon it'll be a turning point and Ukraine will prevail

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## Clutch

Tamerlane said:


> People who say that because Zelensky is a Zionist Jew he couldn't be supporting neo-nazis. The reality is that Zelensky's backer, the Jewish Ukranian oligarch, Ihor Kolomoisky, is also the main backer of the neo-nazis.
> 
> 
> ___________________________________________________
> *Ihor Kolomoisky was widely seen as one of Zelensky’s main backers* and his channel boosted Zelensky’s visibility and popularity ahead of the April election that saw him defeat Poroshenko.
> ___________________________________________________
> 
> 
> *Before becoming part of Ukraine’s armed forces, who funded Azov?*
> 
> The unit received backing from Ukraine’s interior minister in 2014, as the government had recognised its own military was too weak to fight off the pro-Russian separatists and relied on paramilitary volunteer forces.
> 
> These forces were privately funded by oligarchs – *the most known being Igor Kolomoisky*, an energy magnate billionaire and then-governor of the Dnipropetrovska region.
> 
> In addition to Azov, Kolomoisky funded other volunteer battalions such as the Dnipro 1 and Dnipro 2, Aidar and Donbas units.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Profile: Who are Ukraine’s far-right Azov regiment?
> 
> 
> The far-right neo-Nazi group has expanded to be part of Ukraine’s armed forces, a street militia and a political party.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com



Well said... People do not think beyond the blinders they have imposed upon themselves. They just think in simplistic binary terms. Simpletons.

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## NotSure

New Kalibration for the Ukr Nazi Regime is incoming:


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## Lehrasap

Meengla said:


> Unfortunately you are right. Putin can't walk away looking defeated. And there lies the biggest danger in this war. Maybe the first time in human history humanity or at least millions of people are afraid of the loser!



What else the Western should do? 

Should they accept those demands of Putin due to the threat of Nukes and let him do all the crimes that he wants?

I don't think the West has this option.

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## Primus

jamal18 said:


> Saw a few twitter feed from survivors. Don't know about the casualties, but I believe that they were significant.


180+ kia

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## Lehrasap

Tamerlane said:


> People who say that because Zelensky is a Zionist Jew he couldn't be supporting neo-nazis. The reality is that Zelensky's backer, the Jewish Ukranian oligarch, Ihor Kolomoisky, is also the main backer of the neo-nazis.
> 
> 
> ___________________________________________________
> *Ihor Kolomoisky was widely seen as one of Zelensky’s main backers* and his channel boosted Zelensky’s visibility and popularity ahead of the April election that saw him defeat Poroshenko.
> ___________________________________________________
> 
> 
> *Before becoming part of Ukraine’s armed forces, who funded Azov?*
> 
> The unit received backing from Ukraine’s interior minister in 2014, as the government had recognised its own military was too weak to fight off the pro-Russian separatists and relied on paramilitary volunteer forces.
> 
> These forces were privately funded by oligarchs – *the most known being Igor Kolomoisky*, an energy magnate billionaire and then-governor of the Dnipropetrovska region.
> 
> In addition to Azov, Kolomoisky funded other volunteer battalions such as the Dnipro 1 and Dnipro 2, Aidar and Donbas units.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Profile: Who are Ukraine’s far-right Azov regiment?
> 
> 
> The far-right neo-Nazi group has expanded to be part of Ukraine’s armed forces, a street militia and a political party.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com



It may be that Ihor Kolomoisky support Zelensky, but this does not prove that Zelensky also supports Azov or Kolomoisky for backing Azov. 

They are in war, and there are many groups there, who support and oppose each other. 

Thus, the main issue is if Zelensky supports (or ever supported) Azov. The answer is NO. 

This is only Russian propaganda and nothing more.

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## bobo6661

Tamerlane said:


> *Before becoming part of Ukraine’s armed forces, who funded Azov?*
> 
> The unit received backing from Ukraine’s interior minister in 2014, as the government had recognised its own military was too weak to fight off the pro-Russian separatists and relied on paramilitary volunteer forces.
> 
> These forces were privately funded by oligarchs – *the most known being Igor Kolomoisky*, an energy magnate billionaire and then-governor of the Dnipropetrovska region.
> 
> In addition to Azov, Kolomoisky funded other volunteer battalions such as the Dnipro 1 and Dnipro 2, Aidar and Donbas units.



The problem is people forgetting why and how azov became a military unit in the first place ... If russia didnt try to grab the land in ukraine there would be no azow.

Yee and tactical nukes yeee.... more morons now try to explane to his people that nuke was the only option for a "military operation" and yee all countrys would not care if he used nukes ... Guess even india would have to condemn them then ... if not then i guess few nukes from isreal on teheran would not be a problem ... Who would care at that point ...

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## Meengla

Lehrasap said:


> What else the Western should do?
> 
> Should they accept *those demands of Putin due to the threat of Nukes and let him do all the crimes that he wants?*
> 
> I don't think the West has this option.



Not for me to answer. However, 'the West' is nothing but a few hundred American corps, their media outlets, and paid-for-politicians. Europe didn't want this and still would quickly back off IF America says so.
And all it would take would be for America to stop this war. *I can guarantee all this 'the West' hoopla is going to end within days in that case. *


----------



## oberschlesier

zartosht said:


> One of the biggest lies western propaganda seems to be feeding people (and very visible on this forum with shitstream media consumers/spammers)
> 
> Is that the russians will just accept defeat, go home and have putin admit he lost and the ukies and west won. While everyone on twitter pats themselves on the back for their major contributions and song kumbaya…
> 
> This maybe a cultural thing. But in eastern cultures, dying while taking out your enemy with you is 10000000000000x times more desirable then accepting defeat and humiliation from that same enemy.
> 
> Lets make this very clear and in language people understand:
> 
> *Russia will nuke ukraine and western europe into a radioactive parking lot for the next 200 years, before it accepts defeat and humiliation in ukraine.*
> 
> These dumb euros are really playing with fire on their master washingtons behalf. And its pathetic to see



Is this the only agrument, that you have ? Threaten to nuke everybody ?

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## Clutch

Meengla said:


> Unfortunately you are right. Putin can't walk away looking defeated. And there lies the biggest danger in this war. Maybe the first time in human history humanity or at least millions of people are afraid of the loser!



When there are losers on both sides of a conflict with nukes ... We are all possibly doomed to be losers.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

bobo6661 said:


> The problem is people forgetting why and how azov became a military unit in the first place ... If russia didnt try to grab the land in ukraine there would be no azow.
> 
> Yee and tactical nukes yeee.... more morons now try to explane to his people that nuke was the only option for a "military operation" and yee all countrys would not care if he used nukes ... Guess even india would have to condemn them then ... if not then i guess few nukes from isreal on teheran would not be a problem ... Who would care at that point ...




Iran will respond back and take out Hell Aviv (aka Tel Aviv) and Haifa.

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## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Iran will respond back and take out Hell Aviv (aka Tel Aviv) and Haifa.


With what ? And if there will be anything left out of Iran after


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## Meengla

Clutch said:


> When there are losers on both sides of a conflict with nukes ... We are all possibly doomed to be losers.



Well said.
I don't know why people here don't sink in their heads something which all military strategists are saying: Russia has a nuclear BLACKMAIL in this conflict! Simple! You can condemn that all you want but, unless someone from inside Russia stops Putin, he will NOT accept looking defeated. Already NY Times is saying that Russia has plenty of tactical nukes which are 'a fraction of the Hiroshima' nuke in power but enough to obliterate large forces. Add to them the hyperbaric bombs. 
It is true that Americans are not only far ahead in the quality of nukes but also in conventional capabilities but how can you take a chance against an enemy which has so many nukes and may become suicidal if cornered. Out of the 6000 nukes Russia has, if even 10 big ones make to their targets then forget goodbye to the world as we know it. 

This is not some $ick measuring contest where who has what. It is about injecting some very grim reality in the discussion about this conflict and that reality is becoming more and more possible as Russia's advances grind down.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506362866668089356

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## oberschlesier

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Iran will respond back and take out Hell Aviv (aka Tel Aviv) and Haifa.


It would be better to find a deal between Israel and Iran, that would benefit both sides. Hell, why do this, get sactions lifted and sell oil and gas to Europe, better to threten with nukes.

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## kingQamaR

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Iran will respond back and take out Hell Aviv (aka Tel Aviv) and Haifa.



Lol

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## Wood

bobo6661 said:


> The problem is people forgetting why and how azov became a military unit in the first place ...* If russia didnt try to grab the land in ukraine there would be no azow.*


Exactly! Ultra nationalist right wing supremacy ideologies are easy to foster in areas of unrest. All societies will have a small fraction of the population prone to extremist supremacy ideologies. But when Putin started his shenanigans in the Ukrainian border, these supremacy groups found a fertile ground for their movement to thrive and recruit.

People who ignore this obvious reality are either being intentionally dense or just plain stupid

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## Ich

bobo6661 said:


> With what ? And if there will be anything left out of Iran after



With missiles. Sitting deep in undergroundbunkers under mountains. Able even for third strike. Take a look in Iran-Forum here on pdf.

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## bobo6661

Ich said:


> With missiles. Sitting deep in undergroundbunkers under mountains. Able even for third strike. Take a look in Iran-Forum here on pdf.


Like man lets be real if they could they would do it already ...

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## NotSure

bobo6661 said:


> The problem is people forgetting why and how azov became a military unit in the first place ... If russia didnt try to grab the land in ukraine there would be no azow.
> 
> Yee and tactical nukes yeee.... more morons now try to explane to his people that nuke was the only option for a "military operation" and yee all countrys would not care if he used nukes ... Guess even india would have to condemn them then ... if not then i guess few nukes from isreal on teheran would not be a problem ... Who would care at that point ...


Azov and all the other Nazi freaks in Ukraine were there *BEFORE *the "land grab", you genius.

You can't even get the facts straight and in the correct cause and effect chain. And geniuses like you are calling other morons ...


----------



## Ich

bobo6661 said:


> Like man lets be real if they could they would do it already ...



Iran is civilized, is not like US

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## oberschlesier

Meengla said:


> Well said.
> I don't know why people here don't sink in their heads something which all military strategists are saying: Russia has a nuclear BLACKMAIL in this conflict! Simple! You can condemn that all you want but, unless someone from inside Russia stops Putin, he will NOT accept looking defeated. Already NY Times is saying that Russia has plenty of tactical nukes which are 'a fraction of the Hiroshima' nuke in power but enough to obliterate large forces. Add to them the hyperbaric bombs.
> It is true that Americans are not only far ahead in the quality of nukes but also in conventional capabilities but how can you take a chance against an enemy which has so many nukes and may become suicidal if cornered. Out of the 6000 nukes Russia has, if even 10 big ones make to their targets then forget goodbye to the world as we know it.
> 
> This is not some $ick measuring contest where who has what. It is about injecting some very grim reality in the discussion about this conflict and that reality is becoming more and more possible as Russia's advances grind down.


Blackmail is blackmail, not using the nukes. It`s a political weapon. Anyway why use it against the the west ? Everybody here has a fantasy, that this is a NATO - Russia conflict, but infact they are fighting Ukraine and have big problems. Of course Ukraine get`s help for EU/NATO, but this not the same thing.


----------



## kingQamaR

Meengla said:


> Well said.
> I don't know why people here don't sink in their heads something which all military strategists are saying: Russia has a nuclear BLACKMAIL in this conflict! Simple! You can condemn that all you want but, unless someone from inside Russia stops Putin, he will NOT accept looking defeated. Already NY Times is saying that Russia has plenty of tactical nukes which are 'a fraction of the Hiroshima' nuke in power but enough to obliterate large forces. Add to them the hyperbaric bombs.
> It is true that Americans are not only far ahead in the quality of nukes but also in conventional capabilities but how can you take a chance against an enemy which has so many nukes and may become suicidal if cornered. Out of the 6000 nukes Russia has, if even 10 big ones make to their targets then forget goodbye to the world as we know it.
> 
> This is not some $ick measuring contest where who has what. It is about injecting some very grim reality in the discussion about this conflict and that reality is becoming more and more possible as Russia's advances grind down.



putin can give a order to launch the Russian state nuclear missiles, but I'm not sure this order would be followed anymore, that television broadcast was revealing puTin with his top 2 general together the look on the both general faces was what has this guy got us into, and what are we going to do now how many others in the system are starting to think like these two maybe the system has decided secretly that it will block any crazy order of nuclear launch from Moscow the guy has zero credibility with his army now

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## bobo6661

NotSure said:


> Azov and all the other Nazi freaks in Ukraine were there *BEFORE *the "land grab", you genius.


They where like same groups in germany poland russia etc ... What to do with freaks like that ? Execute them ? Are you calling for it ?









Azov Regiment - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





On 13 April 2014, Minister of Internal Affairs Arsen Avakov issued a decree authorizing the creation of new paramilitary forces of up to 12,000 people

The Azov Battalion has its roots in a group of ultras of FC Metalist Kharkiv named "Sect 82"

You got people like that in every country

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## NotSure

bobo6661 said:


> They where like same groups in germany poland russia etc ... What to do with freaks like that ? Execute them ? Are you calling for it ?


No, they were not like the other groups. Again you can't even get the most basic facts straight and not only trying to whitewash this scum, no, trying to spin the thing. Blaming me now, like i am the Azov nazi here.

Ok, pls continue. So people all over the world can see, what polish propaganda is doing with their people. You could think, you have learned something from the history, about Bandera and co ...


----------



## jamal18

Meengla said:


> Well said.
> I don't know why people here don't sink in their heads something which all military strategists are saying: Russia has a nuclear BLACKMAIL in this conflict! Simple! You can condemn that all you want but, unless someone from inside Russia stops Putin, he will NOT accept looking defeated. Already NY Times is saying that Russia has plenty of tactical nukes which are 'a fraction of the Hiroshima' nuke in power but enough to obliterate large forces. Add to them the hyperbaric bombs.
> It is true that Americans are not only far ahead in the quality of nukes but also in conventional capabilities but how can you take a chance against an enemy which has so many nukes and may become suicidal if cornered. Out of the 6000 nukes Russia has, if even 10 big ones make to their targets then forget goodbye to the world as we know it.
> 
> This is not some $ick measuring contest where who has what. It is about injecting some very grim reality in the discussion about this conflict and that reality is becoming more and more possible as Russia's advances grind down.



1. I remember a comment by Lavarov a while back, before this conflict. He stated simply that the next World war can only be a nuclear war, anything else is not likely.

2. On this forum I saw the comment of an Indian general who trained with the Russians. He said he was surprised how early in a conflict the Russians would use tactical nukes.

If Nato engages in this war, the result is not in doubt.

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## bobo6661

NotSure said:


> Ok, pls continue. So people all over the world can see, what polish propaganda is doing with their people. You could thing, you have learned something from the history, Bandera and co ...


Man you still got hitler lovers in your country


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506263886697308171

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## oberschlesier

NotSure said:


> No, they were not like the other groups. Again you can't even get the most basic facts straight and not only trying to whitewash this scum, no, trying to spin the thing. Blaming me now, like i am the Azov nazi here.
> 
> Ok, pls continue. So people all over the world can see, what polish propaganda is doing with their people. You could think, you have learned something from the history, Bandera and co ...


Azov is like AfD, during war time.


----------



## dBSPL

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506263886697308171


Nice catch, thank you for sharing

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## NotSure

bobo6661 said:


> Azov Regiment - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 13 April 2014, Minister of Internal Affairs Arsen Avakov issued a decree authorizing the creation of new paramilitary forces of up to 12,000 people
> 
> *The Azov Battalion has its roots in a group of ultras of FC Metalist Kharkiv named "Sect 82"*


So in other words: These freaks were already there, the Nazi Arsen Avakov was already there, S14 Nazis where already there.


----------



## dBSPL

Russian Kremlin Spokesperson Peskov said Putin may resort to nuclear weapons if they see an existential threat to their country.





(though I don't believe any of these numbers, just a reminder)

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## Wood

dBSPL said:


> Russian Kremlin Spokesperson Peskov said Putin may resort to nuclear weapons if they see an existential threat to their country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (though I don't believe any of these numbers, just a reminder)


India is called Hindistan in Russia


----------



## dBSPL

Wood said:


> India is called Hindistan in Russia


Graph is from a Turkish TV broadcast. And yes about 2 billion people in the world write India that way approximately.

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## oberschlesier

NotSure said:


> So in other words: These freaks were already there, the Nazi Arsen Avakov was already there, S14 Nazis where already there.


Like in every other countries, you have right wing parties, that sometimes say BS. Like AfD in DE. Do you have to bomb Charkiw becasue of this ? It`s a lame excuse.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506322968544223242

Reactions: Love Love:
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## kingQamaR

jamal18 said:


> 1. I remember a comment by Lavarov a while back, before this conflict. He stated simply that the next World war can only be a nuclear war, anything else is not likely.
> 
> 2. On this forum I saw the comment of an Indian general who trained with the Russians. He said he was surprised how early in a conflict the Russians would use tactical nukes.
> 
> If Nato engages in this war, the result is not in doubt.



Then he’s a stupid old fat man if he thinks this will get them to make go away there Ukrainian mess him and his mafia boss have made themselves. He brings up nuclear admissions they have screwed up Ukraine and west help get them out end crisis His nato counter parts have been rehearsing this type of planning since 1950s. If he was astute he’d see the shambles Russian army is fight with Ukrainian civilians the talk of nukes vs professional nato response be nothing left of Russia.

Pakistan has 165 nukes what the hell

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Remember ;
> 
> Everyone was masturbating here on the news that "according to Russian sources,he was killed 20 minutes after getting into battle in Mariupol!!!". And some fell for it. lmao.




There still no definitive proof that the "Wali" assassin is alive. Just sharing old photo doesn't prove anything.....His absence actually gives credence to the reports of his death even though I can't ascertain whether he is dead or alive.


----------



## bobo6661

NotSure said:


> So in other words: These freaks were already there, the Nazi Arsen Avakov was already there, S14 Nazis where already there.


According to the annual report of Germany's interior intelligence service (Verfassungsschutz) for 2012, at the time there were 26,000 right-wing extremists living in Germany, including 6,000 neo-Nazis.[143] In January 2020, Combat 18 was banned in Germany, and raids directed against the organization were made across the country.[144] In March 2020, United German Peoples and Tribes, which is part of Reichsbürger, a neo-Nazi movement that rejects the German state as a legal entity, was raided by the German police.[145] Holocaust denial is a crime, according to the German Criminal Code (Strafgesetzbuch § 86a) and § 130 (public incitement)





__





Neo-Nazism - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org









__





Far-right politics in Germany (1945–present) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506310039363112961

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506310058652667915

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506355262420049928

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## NotSure

oberschlesier said:


> Azov is like AfD, during war time.


Yeah, sure.


oberschlesier said:


> Like in every other countries, you have right wing parties, that sometimes say BS. Like AfD in DE. Do you have to bomb Charkiw becasue of this ? It`s a lame excuse.


Killing Russians for 8 years is "saying something BS" for you, ok. I got it. Another polish nazi fan trying to whitewash it. Because nazis are ok, as long they are killing russians. Typical story.

Now with the liberation of ukraine from this scum, they will land in Poland too. Actually they are already there and you Polacks will have a lot of fun with them.

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## Kraetoz

kingQamaR said:


> Pakistan has 165 nukes what the hell


More, these are conservative estimates. Specially the tactical ones i.e. Nasr are most probably not included.

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## bobo6661

NotSure said:


> Killing Russians for 8 years is "saying something BS" for you, ok. I got it. Another polish nazi fan trying to whitewash it. Because nazis are ok, as long they are killing russians. Typical story.
> 
> Now with the liberation of ukraine from this scum, they will land in Poland too. Actually they are already there and you Polacks will have a lot of fun with them.


And it all started with putler land grab ...


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

bobo6661 said:


> With what ? And if there will be anything left out of Iran after



With what Iranians have and not showing......The whole "if there will be anything left out of" is a bullshit claim that can't be proven. Israel is such a small place that if there is a nuclear exchange, nothing will be left of it.

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## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> With what Iranians have and not showing......The whole "if there will be anything left out of" is a bullshit claim that can't be proven. Israel is such a small place that if there is a nuclear exchange, nothing will be left of it.


Ok ok like their Stealth fighter got you .


----------



## Rafi

My girl and her relatives are hearing some very disturbing news, other than this horrible war, organized crime groups have started to appear in Poland, Moldova and some other countries.

They are trying to lure young Ukranian women for sex trafficking. 😢 😭 it just breaks your heart, but there are human scum that will try to take advantage of a tragedy.

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## dBSPL

this is really embarrassing

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506306740421341193You can't just hand over one of your most strategic systems in the field to the enemy in working condition.

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## F-22Raptor

dBSPL said:


> this is really embarrassing
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506306740421341193You can't just hand over one of your most strategic systems in the field to the enemy in working condition.



CIA and DIA going to be all over this

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----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506184322826579970


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506378257998000131

Reactions: Love Love:
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## NotSure

bobo6661 said:


> According to the annual report of Germany's interior intelligence service (Verfassungsschutz) for 2012, at the time there were 26,000 right-wing extremists living in Germany, including 6,000 neo-Nazis.[143] In January 2020, Combat 18 was banned in Germany, and raids directed against the organization were made across the country.[144] In March 2020, United German Peoples and Tribes, which is part of Reichsbürger, a neo-Nazi movement that rejects the German state as a legal entity, was raided by the German police.[145] Holocaust denial is a crime, according to the German Criminal Code (Strafgesetzbuch § 86a) and § 130 (public incitement)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neo-Nazism - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Far-right politics in Germany (1945–present) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


You are really a genius of epic proportions. The same germany which is the succsessor of the 3. Reich, which is actively supporting nazis in Kiev, again against russia, has Nazi groups? Really? What's next? Water is wet? The sky is blue?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

bobo6661 said:


> Ok ok like their Stealth fighter got you .



Like that missile rain last week that took out the whole Mossad agents....Stop kidding yourself, the killers of innocent and defenseless men, women, and children in Palestine can't take on a well-armed adversary like Iran.

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## kingQamaR

oberschlesier said:


> Blackmail is blackmail, not using the nukes. It`s a political weapon. Anyway why use it against the the west ? Everybody here has a fantasy, that this is a NATO - Russia conflict, but infact they are fighting Ukraine and have big problems. Of course Ukraine get`s help for EU/NATO, but this not the same thing.



Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov just announced that Russia would only use its nukes if the survival of the state was in jeapordy. I guess that's a go for military NATO intervention in Ukraine? NATO isn't threatening the existence of the Russian state, after all...

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## dBSPL

While the mega yachts of the Russian oligarchs came to Turkey one by one, some social media figures within the fifth column activities in Turkey began to openly threaten Turkey.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506014672633294856


----------



## NotSure

bobo6661 said:


> And it all started with putler land grab ...


Again you can't get the facts straight, or let better say you polish nazi fan are outright lying.

It started in the beginning of the 90s, when the Nato started the reeducation of Ukraine to a nazi state against russia. The regime change 2014 was the culmination after this reeducation towards the nazi ideology, with billions and billions invested to fullfill this task.

But hey, Nuland said the 5 billions the US gov *alone *has invested were there to spread "democracy" ...

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## kingQamaR

NotSure said:


> You are really a genius of epic proportions. The same germany which is the succsessor of the 3. Reich, which is actively supporting nazis in Kiev, again against russia, has Nazi groups? Really? What's next? Water is wet? The sky is blue?



I don't understand why the west is still trying to communicate with Russia. As it's a vassal state now, they should try to reach an agreement with their master, China.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506378257998000131





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506372716525465605


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506377764181528589

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## oberschlesier

NotSure said:


> Yeah, sure.
> 
> Killing Russians for 8 years is "saying something BS" for you, ok. I got it. Another polish nazi fan trying to whitewash it. Because nazis are ok, as long they are killing russians. Typical story.


As ukrainian nationalist they defend their own country in international borders from russians. This neo-nazi story is very weak. Does Russia needs to bomb civilians because of this ? It seems most of RUSSIAN speaking Eastern Ukraine seems to be neo nazi now.



NotSure said:


> Now with the liberation of ukraine from this scum, they will land in Poland too. Actually they are already there and you Polacks will have a lot of fun with them.


Don`t worry, they will mostly move to Germany, better Sozialhilfe.


----------



## WotTen

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506322968544223242



Assuming this is not just standard wartime propaganda to boost morale, I would imagine all critical systems would have self-destruct mechanisms built in which can be activated remotely in such a situation.

Or maybe they don't have a self-destruct mechanism. Maybe I watch too many movies...


----------



## NotSure

kingQamaR said:


> I don't understand why the west is still trying to communicate with Russia. As it's a vassal state now, they should try to reach an agreement with their master, China.


Well, maybe you stick to things you understand, so the list will be much shorter.

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506372126294659073

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## oberschlesier

kingQamaR said:


> Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov just announced that Russia would only use its nukes if the survival of the state was in jeapordy. I guess that's a go for military NATO intervention in Ukraine? NATO isn't threatening the existence of the Russian state, after all...



NATO wil not intervene in Ukraine, it`s a political game, like the whole nuke discussion. The existence of the Russian state is mostly threten by it`s Uneffective political system, that produced this war. They should rather nuke themselfs.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505588562657427462

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## BlindEagle

jamahir said:


> Wood outputting nonsense as usual.
> 
> 
> 
> "Collaborators"... What a nice excuse word.
> 
> 
> 
> Your experience is of a student who has just begun to realize that Nazis are in Zelensky's forces and administration.
> 
> 
> 
> That Zionist Jew collaborating with Nazis is the same as "Muslim" Brotherhood and Tableeghi Jamaat collaborating with Western Crusader governments. You should think straight. Zelensky, MB and TJ are tools, puppets, no more.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Nazis exist in Russia too but they haven't taken over the government. And last I said on the net all opposition parties in Ukraine have been banned.
> 
> 
> 
> How nice.


Lmao gobbling up RT propaganda won’t help you either. End of the day this war was baited by the US
I only care about the ground realities, the suffering of people. I thought Russian Ukrainians aren’t patriotic about ukraine but I was wrong. I also see lots of traitors being caught left and right and Russia is using their punishment as excuse of oppression when they’re the real aggressors. 
Don’t worry about me, I don’t rely on mainstream media for my news like you. I’ve got connections with hobbyist journalists in ukraine with their personal telegram channels. Also I understand the language so it’s easy for me to see the truth from lies.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505605443107831816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506186604314087425

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506332850609692674
world's second most powerful army


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506374466959515655
lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506374258527719443

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Destroyed Su-25 attack aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506310893616963586


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506377764181528589




Bedtime stories.

Next

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506375180658036742


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506319386646298627

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506372075681943573

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## BlindEagle

Clutch said:


> Next
> To Understand Putin, You First Need to Get Inside Aleksandr Dugin's Head​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An Azov militiaman with a Tavor rifle Azov YouTube channel screenshot
> 
> Rights Groups Demand Israel Stop Arming neo-Nazis in Ukraine​Human rights activists petition the court to cease Israeli arms exports to Ukraine since some of these weapons reach neo-Nazi elements in Ukraine’s security forces
> 
> John Brown
> Jul. 9, 2018
> 
> A group of more than 40 human rights activists have filed a petition with the High Court of Justice, demanding the cessation of Israeli arms exports to Ukraine.
> 
> They argue that these weapons serve forces that openly espouse a neo-Nazi ideology and cite evidence that the right-wing Azov militia, whose members are part of Ukraine’s armed forces, and are supported by the country’s ministry of internal affairs, is using these weapons.
> 
> An earlier appeal to the Defense Ministry was met with no response.


This war is a fucked up excuse to sell more weapons to the peasants and bring on the great reset. I’m not surprised this happened. Azov is disgusting for sure but ukraine is prioritizing its enemies right now.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506341320968884228

Reactions: Like Like:
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## bobo6661

sorry had to

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506381602754072585

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506355375116890114


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Seems like a field kitchen...can't imagine people are bragging about this...... The "V" or "Z" signs aren't even visible......It seems to me a whole made-up claim with some old, out-of-order field kitchen. 




F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506310039363112961
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506310058652667915
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506355262420049928

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## kingQamaR

oberschlesier said:


> NATO wil not intervene in Ukraine, it`s a political game, like the whole nuke discussion. The existence of the Russian state is mostly threten by it`s Uneffective political system, that produced this war. They should rather nuke themselfs.



Exactly, reason for Russian hurry to invade Ukraine as a none nato. Biden idiot made it clear he and nato would not intervene or defend in Ukraine so the bad ruler from Moscow jumped in



NotSure said:


> Well, maybe you stick to things you understand, so the list will be much shorter.



Don’t get uptight your no general Rommel on here


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506318597974642688


----------



## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Seems like a field kitchen...can't imagine people are bragging about this...... The "V" or "Z" signs aren't even visible......It seems to me a whole made-up claim with some old, out-of-order field kitchen.




__
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tdg56b


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506379187916926981


bobo6661 said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tdg56b





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506364912532135936

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## Type59

Rafi said:


> My girl and her relatives are hearing some very disturbing news, other than this horrible war, organized crime groups have started to appear in Poland, Moldova and some other countries.
> 
> They are trying to lure young Ukranian women for sex trafficking. 😢 😭 it just breaks your heart, but there are human scum that will try to take advantage of a tragedy.


Not surprised


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Ukrainian Neo Nazis abusing poor Roma girls


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506357840889454599

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1 | Angry Angry:
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## KAL-EL

oberschlesier said:


> Is this the only agrument, that you have ? Threaten to nuke everybody ?



Uortunately, some here live in a video game mentality.




bobo6661 said:


> Like man lets be real if they could they would do it already ...



^This

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## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506379187916926981
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506364912532135936





https://www.dsp.dla.mil/Portals/26/Documents/Programs/JointStandardizationBoards/JSB-ESBE/Base%20Camp%20Equipment/Kitchens/RCS.pdf?ver=wLVXoeP_-bdaK71jcAKZbA%3D%3D





 https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/DD/issuances/dodm/414068m.pdf?ver=kptCFUFDrzrboBAqe35e_Q%3D%3D



American container in russian hands Show me russian having similar equip


----------



## Clutch

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Ukrainian Neo Nazis abusing poor Roma girls
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506357840889454599



This will never make any of the Western media because it goes against the propaganda the So-called "free world": Ukrainian Good; anti-Ukraine Bad!

Imagine if this was the Taliban of any other street in Muslim nation, a savage assaulting innocent women with a Dildo.... The Western media headlines will scream, "Barbaric Islamist bla bla bla!"... When it's their own Nazis: *Silence*! 

If you don't obey the so-called "free" world Western Propaganda.... They attack you like dogs....

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506319664414171136

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506387882512166925


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506363926891614221

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506380954981515268

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506394141579694086

Reactions: Love Love:
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## V. Makarov

zartosht said:


> One of the biggest lies western propaganda seems to be feeding people (and very visible on this forum with shitstream media consumers/spammers)
> 
> Is that the russians will just accept defeat, go home and have putin admit he lost and the ukies and west won. While everyone on twitter pats themselves on the back for their major contributions and song kumbaya…
> 
> This maybe a cultural thing. But in eastern cultures, dying while taking out your enemy with you is 10000000000000x times more desirable then accepting defeat and humiliation from that same enemy.
> 
> Lets make this very clear and in language people understand:
> 
> *Russia will nuke ukraine and western europe into a radioactive parking lot for the next 200 years, before it accepts defeat and humiliation in ukraine.*
> 
> These dumb euros are really playing with fire on their master washingtons behalf. And its pathetic to see



Bowing down to Russia would enable all nuclear powers of the world to pull off a nuclear bluff to achieve their imperial aspiration, and would convince Iran, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Australia, Canada and Japan to get nuclear weapons. 

The world is better off living in ruins, than living under the nuclear threats of a dysfunctional, and animalistic (the leadership) state of Russia. 

Western allies must make sure Russia is defeated, so that other powers don't initiate the same atrocities 10 years down the road.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506371063042781191


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506374910632943617


----------



## Kraetoz

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506363926891614221


Haha the western trolls crying in the comments of this tweet are fun to read 🤣


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506336432096485380

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506268468579999753

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Foinikas

jamahir said:


> And the soldier in the picture with a Roma girl tied to a pole and her face sprayed green, that soldier watching on had a Ukranian patch on the arm.


I heard that they do it to those they catch stealing,they have done it to white men too. And gypsies are notorious thieves, scammers and criminals in the Balkans and probably Ukraine too...


----------



## Bleek

Foinikas said:


> I heard that they do it to those they catch stealing,they have done it to white men too. And gypsies are notorious thieves, scammers and criminals in the Balkans and probably Ukraine too...


It was said they were doing it to Russian speakers also

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506116621500403725


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506333049709080584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506289785740177419

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506310307412680713

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506348727803559947


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506384416146436103

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood




----------



## Constantin84

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506333049709080584
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506289785740177419
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506310307412680713


The Poles will mop the floor with that peasant riff raff, the Russians like to call an "Army ".By the looks of it, they don't even need the rest of NATO to do it.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Their FOB for the south is Crimea — now likely lightly guarded because they threw everything on southern front into Marioupol.
> 
> And there is potential for cutoff.
> 
> Then, their only resupply route will be from Russia through M4.
> 
> When Russians invaded in 2014, I instantly noticed that they likely did it for a future supply route.
> 
> Russia has s**t roads, and it did not change in 25 years, so they are tied to staging with rail access.
> 
> View attachment 826304
> 
> 
> If I were a Ukrainian general:


I have covered this many time. And pointed out that If I were the Ukrainian, I will push the Russian back from Kherson, I may or may not go over the bridge (depends on actual battlefield intelligence) but doing so, Russia will be force to return some of the troop back to Crimea for defence. 

What Ukrainian have to do, essential is to launch an air assault offensive with meaningful number with Airborne element to cut off the supply/reinforcement line for Kherson, pretty sure the citizens of Kherson will rise up for a insurgency if they see Ukrainian counter attacked. As far as I can see Russian have not yet demilitarize Kherson area. 

If that happens, that would potentially turn the ties to the south. Now, whether or not Ukrainian have the mean to mount such a counter offensive is another issue. 

As I said a few days ago, Mariupol is important for the Russian, while retaking Kherson is important for the Ukrainian, the battle, at least the battle down south is heavily depends on who can do that first.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506380954981515268





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506264001638023174

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## dBSPL

Experts in Russia's mainstream media are discussing how to bomb Poland.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506407599549394945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506283895771348994

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Vergennes

Constantin84 said:


> The Poles will mop the floor with that peasant riff raff, the Russians like to call an "Army ".By the looks of it, they don't even need the rest of NATO to do it.



We always knew Russian armed forces were trash and this war only proves it. Of course funboys who swallowed Russia's propaganda for years can't take the hard reality of how trash this army is. "Yeah but the real russian army is still in Russia they only send old stuff and conscripts!!!". My @ss.

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> We always knew Russian armed forces were trash and this war only proves it. Of course funboys who swallowed Russia's propaganda for years can't take the hard reality of how trash this army is. "Yeah but the real russian army is still in Russia they only send old stuff and conscripts!!!". My @ss.




The Russian military is dog****. The US military of Desert Storm 30 years ago would skull drag them.

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## Vergennes

BTW who will tell those drunkards that Russia isn't the only country to possess nuclear weapons... that any nuclear strike will be met accordingly by turning Russia into a giant mushroom.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> We always knew Russian armed forces were trash and this war only proves it. Of course funboys who swallowed Russia's propaganda for years can't take the hard reality of how trash this army is. "Yeah but the real russian army is still in Russia they only send old stuff and conscripts!!!". My @ss.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505149993312735237

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## FairAndUnbiased

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506379187916926981
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506364912532135936



How many lies have to be caught before credibility is lost?

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## serenity

https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/larry-...-army-has-been-defeated-whats-left-is-mop-up/

Sounds like air superiority.

Even if we want to ignore that Russia could use aircraft to strike positions right next to Poland on the western most parts of Ukraine. At will. Without counter and without resistance.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506425226954952706
Russia has already lost

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506218467590082570


----------



## kingQamaR

We have not heard or seen much of the Russian airforce in this war I wonder why that is !


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506431126570770433

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## FairAndUnbiased

kingQamaR said:


> We have not heard or seen much of the Russian airforce in this war I wonder why that is !



You sure? Only news I heard from Ukrainian Air Force is their Su-25s getting shot down and a Russian Su-35 killing 2 of their pilots in a 1v2.

Ukrainian Air Force has 0 air to air kills while Russian strikers are hitting Ukrainian infrastructure. If they had even rudimentary air to air they'd be able to shoot down subsonic cruise missiles yet all they can come up with is a story of Stingers intercepting Iskanders LMAO.

Russians released helmet camera footage, Ukraine released... Video game footage.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506278204532834305

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506425226954952706
> Russia has already lost





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506409896656486408

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506432604559527939

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506432785740967937

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## dBSPL

Unbelievable achievement that this Su-25 can land in one piece

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506387456429641729

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506432604559527939
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506432785740967937





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506408258210304004

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506408074629853191


Spoiler





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506409048731750401



Just today alone:

✈️💥 Operational-tactical and army aviation hit 83 military assets of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Among them: 4 command posts, 4 anti-aircraft missile systems, 3 missile and artillery weapons depots, as well as 68 areas of military equipment concentration.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506252489871532038

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## F-22Raptor

Biden to Sanction Hundreds of Russian Lawmakers, U.S. Officials Say​

WASHINGTON—The Biden administration is preparing sanctions on most members of Russia’s State Duma, the lower house of parliament, as the U.S. continues its crackdown on Moscow over its invasion of Ukraine.

President Biden intends to announce the sanctions on more than 300 members of the Russian State Duma as soon as Thursday during his trip to Europe, where he will meet with allies from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization to formulate their next steps, according to U.S. officials and internal documents viewed by The Wall...









WSJ News Exclusive | Biden to Sanction Hundreds of Russian Lawmakers, U.S. Officials Say


The Biden administration is preparing sanctions on most members of Russia’s State Duma, the lower house of parliament, as the U.S. continues its crackdown on Moscow over its ongoing war against Ukraine.




www.wsj.com

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506253194556583942


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506412818727419909

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## WotTen

Vergennes said:


> We always knew Russian armed forces were trash and this war only proves it. Of course funboys who swallowed Russia's propaganda for years can't take the hard reality of how trash this army is. "Yeah but the real russian army is still in Russia they only send old stuff and conscripts!!!". My @ss.



While there is no disputing that the Russian offensive has stalled, one of the reasons the Ukrainians are still resisting is that the Russians are not doing indiscriminate bombing of civilians in Ukraine as they did in Chechnya and Syria.

Russia knows that the Western media will not shrug off mass civilians deaths in Europe as they do in other parts of the world.


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## Vergennes

WotTen said:


> While there is no disputing that the Russian offensive has stalled, one of the reasons the Ukrainians are still resisting is that the Russians are not doing indiscriminate bombing of civilians in Ukraine as they did in Chechnya and Syria.
> 
> Russia knows that the Western media will not shrug off mass civilians deaths in Europe as they do in other parts of the world.



My @ss. Look at Kharkiv,Mariupol,Kyiv only to cite a few.

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## dBSPL

*Which recent wars will have influenced how Russian airpower is applied, and what are the specifics of these changes?*

A good question – this is a very large topic and there are many specifics about the use of Russian air power in Ukraine that are not known, so I will make several quick points:

Russian air operations in Ukraine appear to have drawn on some lessons from the Russo-Georgian war. Notably, whereas Russian Tu-22Ms and Su-24Ms were employed to attack Georgian targets in 2008, there is – as mentioned earlier – no indication of them being employed against Ukraine to date. During the war with Georgia, a single Tu-22M3 and Su-24M were shot down by Georgian air defenses. The Russians likely therefore view these two dated aircraft types as too risky to employ at this stage of the war in Ukraine, especially given the various other, more modern capabilities presently available to the Russian military that render the Tu-22M3 and Su-24M redundant in many respects. That said, the VKS is interestingly employing a number of other dated aircraft types in this war. Most notably, the baseline Su-25 and the Mi-24P. In both cases, the VKS has much more capable alternatives available (which are also being employed in the campaign). Given the huge difference in combat potential between a Su-25 and a Su-25SM3 or a Mi-24P and a Mi-35M/Mi-28N/Ka-52, it’s not entirely clear why these dated platforms are being employed in a contested environment.

Another important Russian lesson from the Russo-Georgian war and from other foreign military operations is the importance of UASs. During the 2008 war, the Russian military made very limited use of Pchela-1T UAVs and was grossly disappointed with its performance, especially when compared to the UASs available to Georgia. Since then, the Russian military has been fielding various UAS, though its capabilities in this field are still limited, with more advanced/heavier systems still not ready. The two most advanced Russian UASs known to currently be employed in Ukraine are the aforementioned Inokhodets and Forpost-R (both of these armed UASs have also seen use in Syria). While these systems are leaps ahead of what the Russian military had available in 2008, they are in many respects inferior to the Bayraktar TB2 MALE UCAV operated by Ukraine.






As for other aspects of the campaign, the initial missile-aviation strikes against Ukraine appear to have been a Russian attempt at executing something akin to the opening phases of US-led military operations against Iraq and Serbia. In reality, however, Russia’s opening phase was very different. The Pentagon estimates that the Russian military launched only about 100 missiles of various types during the opening attack. Even though the actual number is likely higher, this is a relatively small number given the scale of Russia’s military operation and the large number of potential aimpoints (I discuss Russia’s use of missiles in greater detail here). Furthermore, it seems that the Russians did not effectively exploit the mixed success of their initial and subsequent missile strikes by following them up with large numbers of fixed-wing aircraft strike sorties using shorter range/direct attack weapons. They were also seemingly slow to re-attack when necessary. In short, Russia’s opening phases were conducted rather poorly, yielding very mixed results.

Russia’s campaign in Ukraine appears to highlight major deficiencies in the Russian military’s offensive and defensive counterair capabilities. Russian offensive counterair efforts failed to neutralize the Ukrainian Air Force on the ground. Moreover, Russian fighters and ground-based air defenses were unable to prevent attacks by Ukrainian manned and unmanned aircraft on Russian ground forces. Ukraine’s TB2 UCAVs, in particular, are proving a challenge. As for the VKS’ SEAD capabilities, despite Russia’s own experience in the 2008 Russo-Georgian war, and despite studying US and allied SEAD efforts during various military operations, the VKS’ SEAD capabilities remain lackluster (equipment and especially training). As I mentioned elsewhere, VKS “exercises appear to exhibit little in the way of complex scenarios involving SEAD packages supporting strike packages.” Given that Ukraine fields highly mobile air defense systems, the lack of a robust SEAD capability has proven to be a major issue.

As a final general remark, it’s important to keep in mind that while this war has highlighted many deficiencies in the Russian military’s capabilities, there are some capabilities that are not being employed to the fullest. Also, the Russian military is likely drawing many lessons from this war. Which of these lessons will be applied and how remains to be seen.

_Guy Plopsky is the author of a number of articles on air power and Russian military affairs. He holds an MA in International Affairs and Strategic Studies from Tamkang University Taiwan_.









Analysis of Russian airpower deployment in Ukraine by Guy Plopsky


Credit: mil.in.ua Russia’s savage aggression against Ukraine has revealed much about the state of Russia’s combat air capabilities. We asked Guy Plopsky to take a deeper look. Which Rus…




hushkit.net






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506293934968160259


----------



## Wood

Vergennes said:


> My @ss. Look at Kharkiv,Mariupol,Kyiv only to cite a few.


Yes, even I used to think that Russia was using kid gloves in this fight against Ukraine earlier. But they have fired more than 1000 missiles into Ukraine now.. this is not taking it easy at all

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## dBSPL

Chechens vs Chechens

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506353160775950346

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506320633759739910

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506377570715160578


----------



## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506329034837442565


Never understand why people would focus on him, had replied to a member about the current status of Wali just 2 days ago, 

He is just one dude........


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506442366479212554

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506442395633827840

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## gambit

serenity said:


> https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/larry-...-army-has-been-defeated-whats-left-is-mop-up/
> 
> Sounds like air superiority.
> 
> Even if we want to ignore that Russia could use aircraft to strike positions right next to Poland on the western most parts of Ukraine. At will. Without counter and without resistance.


In a way, I think it is cute that you guys uses these terms that I explained so often, ie 'air superiority', but consistently you guys misses the point of air superiority: What is the follow up?

US war doctrine is that US ground forces will not face enemy airpower and the last time that happened was in the Korean War. For this war, the VKS did not achieved air superiority so much as that the Ukrainian Air Force realized its weaknesses and simply ceded Ukrainian airspace, so while that technically count as the VKS having air superiority, what is the point of having it if there is no follow up? The Ukrainians are killing Russian generals and colonels, tanks and assorted vehicles, and troops. That begs the question that everyone inside and outside of this forum asks: *WHERE IS THE VKS?*

Now we can be five-nines certain that US/NATO airpower would aced any airspace of the Russian Air Force.


----------



## thetutle

dBSPL said:


> It is not a problem to take the money out of Russia, the important thing is to get the money into Russia.


Yeah, so how do you take 1 million profit out of russia and bring it to turkey?


----------



## jhungary

Tamerlane said:


> People who say that because Zelensky is a Zionist Jew he couldn't be supporting neo-nazis. The reality is that Zelensky's backer, the Jewish Ukranian oligarch, Ihor Kolomoisky, is also the main backer of the neo-nazis.
> 
> 
> ___________________________________________________
> *Ihor Kolomoisky was widely seen as one of Zelensky’s main backers* and his channel boosted Zelensky’s visibility and popularity ahead of the April election that saw him defeat Poroshenko.
> ___________________________________________________
> 
> 
> *Before becoming part of Ukraine’s armed forces, who funded Azov?*
> 
> The unit received backing from Ukraine’s interior minister in 2014, as the government had recognised its own military was too weak to fight off the pro-Russian separatists and relied on paramilitary volunteer forces.
> 
> These forces were privately funded by oligarchs – *the most known being Igor Kolomoisky*, an energy magnate billionaire and then-governor of the Dnipropetrovska region.
> 
> In addition to Azov, Kolomoisky funded other volunteer battalions such as the Dnipro 1 and Dnipro 2, Aidar and Donbas units.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Profile: Who are Ukraine’s far-right Azov regiment?
> 
> 
> The far-right neo-Nazi group has expanded to be part of Ukraine’s armed forces, a street militia and a political party.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com


I don't understand why people keep using Azov to show, at least try to show Ukrainian is Pro-Neo Nazi.

Every time i saw this, I asked the people who said this "Can you name one other group Neo Nazi Group in Ukraine?" 

Bear in mind Neo Nazi group does exist in Ukraine, but Azov at best is what we can called "Far right group" there are other real Neo Nazi group operating in Ukraine, Right Sector, for example. The thing is, those are just secondary group if we want to talk about Neo Nazism in Ukraine, because one group particular are very strong and probably can eat the entire Azov, Right Sector or Svoboda combine. And yet no one mention that group, with whopping 300,000 member last time I check, in their appraisal toward Neo Nazism in Ukraine.

Care to venture a guess on which group is that?


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Wood said:


> Yes, even I used to think that Russia was using kid gloves in this fight against Ukraine earlier. But they have fired more than 1000 missiles into Ukraine now.. this is not taking it easy at all



Ukrainians are fighting this like total war. I gotta hand it to them, they're resisting hard. I am actually very surprised by this. I don't expect countries with GDP per capita like Ukraine to fight hard because their governments are very corrupt, especially if they don't have a strong ideology or religion. 

Usually the army thinks, new boss, old boss, it's all the same. Put up some token resistance then drop weapons and run. 

China saw this phenomena before many times. KMT forces often broke on contact. Once when a PLA army captured 100k KMT soldiers in a week, the general said "even capturing this many pigs in a week would be a challenge". Many Indian soldier surrendered in 1962 because they knew they wouldn't be killed or enslaved.

Ukrainians seem to be fighting under no retreat and no surrender orders. This doesn't make sense to me because just a few years ago they broke on contact with Russia, nobody died, and civilians weren't harmed.

This is a very savage war in general and I think even Russian generals were surprised.

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## thetutle

Tamerlane said:


> It's early days yet, but if Putin survives--which is most likely--he's going to increase support for Syria and Iran. That's why Israelis are crying like babies in fear of what's coming next. What's going to happen to them won't be pretty.


ok how? are you saying that maybe sometime in the future Russia will stop Israel bombing targets in syria? Why aren't they stopping them now? Syria is bombed regularly and Russians are just letting it happen.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506444520103292930

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506444528177328131

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506444535194345474

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506444537144791047

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506444539132882949

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506444541150248972

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## dBSPL

Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu dismissed the commander of the Russian 6th Army, Major General Vladislav Yershov.

If field generals of an army are killed and staff generals are subject to a purge while country at invasion war; there are serious problems there.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506444543188733952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506444545080369152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506444546711994368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506444548523896836

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506444550142935043

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506444552177078280

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## jhungary

Wood said:


> Exactly! Ultra nationalist right wing supremacy ideologies are easy to foster in areas of unrest. All societies will have a small fraction of the population prone to extremist supremacy ideologies. But when Putin started his shenanigans in the Ukrainian border, these supremacy groups found a fertile ground for their movement to thrive and recruit.
> 
> People who ignore this obvious reality are either being intentionally dense or just plain stupid


People don't really understand "Far Right extremism" in particular in Ukraine at all, and felt for the "Neo Nazi" propaganda. POV from Russia. 

People who are really in the know would probably just laugh it off....

If you know about the Neo Nazism in Ukraine, you would not use Azov as an example (really, right sector are better example than Azov) There is a single group in Ukraine that basically trump all Neo Nazi group that people mention here, and yet I have not see anyone put them in the spot light when they are talking about Neo Nazism. Why is that? Either they didn't know anything about Neo Nazism in Ukraine, or they know Zelenskyy was the only one fighting that group in Ukraine before the war by banning any Military and Political representation in the parliament (Azov are related to Military, Right sector on both) . While even Viktor Yanukovych praise that group.

I would be more inclined to believe whatever that person saids about Neo Nazism if he uses that group instead of Azov. I probably see it mentioned once in this entire thread, which is now 1400 pages long...

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## dBSPL

thetutle said:


> Yeah, so how do you take 1 million profit out of russia and bring it to turkey?


It doesn't have to come out in dollars. Turkey has very good experience in this regard. Only one of them was caught on the radar. It is known as the Halkbank case.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506444554114940929

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506444557847863300

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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> There still no definitive proof that the "Wali" assassin is alive. Just sharing old photo doesn't prove anything.....His absence actually gives credence to the reports of his death even though I can't ascertain whether he is dead or alive.


I just post an newspaper article he did with The Star (a canadian newspaper) 2 days ago, at least he was alive 2 days ago because he mentioned the bombing (He won't know about the bombing if he died in it) 

Some one then post the entire article up here. 

So yes, he was alive at least as of 2 days ago on March 20, 2022.


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## dBSPL

Hans Jürgen Kerkhoff, President of the German Steel Association:

"Without natural gas from Russia, steel production cannot be done right now."

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## thetutle

SuvarnaTeja said:


> She could have avoided this by stop speaking Russian and start supporting the Nazi forces of Ukraine.
> 
> If people are dumb then they deserve this.


she doesn't look like a Russian. black hair, strange facial shape, those earrings. Probably a gypsy stealing stuff. There must be some punishment for stealing.


----------



## WotTen

Vergennes said:


> My @ss. Look at Kharkiv,Mariupol,Kyiv only to cite a few.



I hope you can tell the difference between destroyed building and killed civilians.

The civilian death toll in Ukraine is under 1000 civilians after 4 weeks.

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## jhungary

serenity said:


> https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/larry-...-army-has-been-defeated-whats-left-is-mop-up/
> 
> Sounds like air superiority.
> 
> Even if we want to ignore that Russia could use aircraft to strike positions right next to Poland on the western most parts of Ukraine. At will. Without counter and without resistance.


This is not air superiority.

There are 3 different level of Air Superiority. explained as below

1.) Absolute - You Fly, You die
2.) Local - You can fly anytime at a certain area, and guaranteed without aerial/ground opposition
3.) Contested - The sky above is contested, meaning both side still able to sortie.

In Ukrainian case, it is the 3rd one. Instead of the first 2.

Problem with a contested airspace, it don't just limited your sorties, but it also limited what can you do on the ground, because some ground option are only available when you have either Local or Absolute air superiority. Using gunship, conducting an air assault operation and deliver supply by air would require both 1 and/or 2. Which is why you are seeing the 40 miles convoy, and helicopter keep getting shot down, that is the result to use vulnerable air asset when you do not have 1 or 2.

Another issue is attrition. Russian aircraft lose over Ukraine are possibly not recoverable, s neither the crew or the aircraft is going back to Russia, while Ukrainian air crew loss can be replace more rapidly than Russian one. That is essentially how and why British won the Battle of Britain.



Vergennes said:


> My @ss. Look at Kharkiv,Mariupol,Kyiv only to cite a few.


To be honest, it's stupid to bomb civilian target anyway.

You want your munition to take down any armed opposition, which mean any missile, bomb, artillery round that fired into civilian infrastructure are considered a "Wastage" that do nothing to change the military situation but rather rile up an entire civilian base.

You want to win a war, you bomb arms factory, airfield, staging area, marshalling area and other opposition, you want to lose support? You bomb civilian....


----------



## WotTen

Wood said:


> Yes, even I used to think that Russia was using kid gloves in this fight against Ukraine earlier. But they have fired more than 1000 missiles into Ukraine now.. this is not taking it easy at all



There was a tweet that the number of shells Russia has fired in Ukraine so far is similar to the number of shells Israel fired into Gaza in ONE HOUR.

P.S. I don't remember the exact tweet but the comparison highlighted the Western media hypocrisy over war carnage in Ukraine v/s other places.

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## jhungary

WotTen said:


> I hope you can tell the difference between destroyed building and killed civilians.
> 
> The civilian death toll in Ukraine is under 1000 civilians after 4 weeks.


That's a lot considering UN backed NGO estimate between 170,000 - 213,000 civilian were killed in the entire 20 years of war in Afghanistan. That's 204 a week if we go with the upper ceiling. That's 800 + change for 4 weeks.


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## WotTen

jhungary said:


> That's a lot considering UN backed NGO estimate between 170,000 - 213,000 civilian were killed in the entire 20 years of war in Afghanistan. That's 204 a week if we go with the upper ceiling. That's 800 + change for 4 weeks.



I was comparing it to the indiscriminate killings by Russia in Chechnya and Syria.

The US still tries to be mindful of public image, especially domestic outrage over civilian deaths, but Russia never cared until now.


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## Tamerlane

WotTen said:


> There was a tweet that the number of shells Russia has fired in Ukraine so far is similar to the number of shells Israel fired into Gaza in ONE HOUR.
> 
> P.S. I don't remember the exact tweet but the comparison highlighted the Western media hypocrisy over war carnage in Ukraine v/s other places.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501379678774480900

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506453063267241994

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506454606104125442

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506455904719360002

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506456704048902144

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## Tamerlane

thetutle said:


> ok how? are you saying that maybe sometime in the future Russia will stop Israel bombing targets in syria? Why aren't they stopping them now? Syria is bombed regularly and Russians are just letting it happen.



I don't think that Russia sees itself as a savior of the world. They helped out Assad from being regime-changed by the Anglo-Zionists, that's all. They didn't want to pick a fight with Israel and the West.

In the future, I can see that Russia will be enraged at Israel and its minions--the Anglo-Zionists and NATO--so they're going to make life difficult for them. It may be a year or two down the line, not immediately. For now, they have enough problems to deal with.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506458456869543941

Wow, total humiliation for the Russians from the John Deere Brigade


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506444543188733952


These are falsifiable claims. Good. See you in 3-4 days.

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506458456869543941
> 
> Wow, total humiliation for the Russians from the John Deere Brigade


----------



## WotTen

Tamerlane said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501379678774480900



That's the one. Thank you!

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## sur

serenity said:


> *https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/larry-c-johnson-the-ukrainian-army-has-been-defeated-whats-left-is-mop-up/*
> 
> Sounds like air superiority.
> 
> Even if we want to ignore that Russia could use aircraft to strike positions right next to Poland on the western most parts of Ukraine. At will. Without counter and without resistance.


*VERY good read*. Though I haven't done reading all of it yet.

I like his way of looking at events that we totally under-rate, like, "_Russian missile strikes on what are* de facto NATO bases *in Yavoriv and Zhytomyr_."
That's exactly what they were.

Brit PM squeaked "escalation" after first attack on _de facto NATO base_, and there can be no other reason except that *Brit soldiers* may have died (not just ordinary volunteers). Then he went silent. Whichever stage of grief that was, I think 'Depression' stage. Poor guys cannot even grief publicly because that would be admission.

As well as below *posts by @RescueRanger pointed to a very important movement* on the map. I guestimate: NATO came to Ukraine border,➡️ picked dead or injured,➡️ took them to hospital,➡️ they flew them away. If it were Zelensky's soldiers, they won't be transported out of Ukraine like that. They must be foreigners, *contrary to Ukrainian claim* that all ~35 killed were local Ukrainians & US denying any of theirs killed (indirectly admitting that they were there):

Only if I could give positive ratings to these 2 posts by RescueRanger. 



RescueRanger said:


> Okay something is up -
> View attachment 824551
> 
> View attachment 824552
> 
> First Medivac from border with Lviv landed at this airfield in Poland:
> 50*19'20" N 021*27'31" E
> View attachment 824553
> 
> 
> Now second Medivac Chopper just took off from the same strip:
> View attachment 824554





RescueRanger said:


> That and the fact they are making trips from hospital:
> Landed at Rzeszow after a short journey to Kliniczny Szpital Wojewódzki Nr 2 im. Św. Jadwigi Królowej w Rzeszowie
> View attachment 824599
> 
> View attachment 824600
> 
> Rzeszow Airport. There is also a USAF C-130 which took off from Rammstein now approaching for landing.
> 
> And it's up in the air again to the Pad in Mielec:
> View attachment 824601




Another good read, the NewsWeek link in following post:


DF41 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506377018988015631

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## DF41

From my WhatsApp.
Very interesting if proven to be the case later on when fog of war lifted.



Three Mysterious U.S. Soldiers Killed in Ukraine
The Russian Defense Ministry has announced that three U.S. service members were killed in a raid on Marinka: Captain Michael Hoke, Lieutenant Logan Schlum and Lt Cruz Tomblin. The 1st Battalion of the 54th Mechanized Brigade of Ukraine, which was responsible for defending American servicemen, was completely wiped out. The US President, Secretary of State, and Defense Secretary have officially declared that they will not send a single soldier to Ukraine, and it has become US policy. Three U.S. service members showed up on the battlefield in Ukraine and were raided by Russia's elite Alpha Group. You know, the combat mission assigned to it must be approved by the Russian Federal Security Service and President Putin.
The matter immediately caused the military and intelligence community high-level shock!
The biggest gain of the Russian war was the capture of the three U. S. military operations known as the world's most advanced U. S. battlefield situational awareness command device. This set of GPS positioning, military reconnaissance satellite scanning, reconnaissance aircraft, helicopters and drones battlefield monitoring, military secret communications and timely battlefield command system from the headquarters to the soldiers, is the US military services and arms of the center and soul of coordinated operations. Although one of the main functional configuration of the GPS military-grade positioning accuracy is only decimeter level, far less than the millimeter level of the Chinese BeiDou system, but also three times higher than the Russian GLONASS satellite system positioning accuracy. The impressive Ukrainian ambushes against Russian armored convoys relied on the system's intelligence awareness, battlefield situation analysis and command and control schemes.
According to the analysis of military experts, within half a month of the war, the communication command system and radar system of the Ukrainian army, which were at the level of the 1970s, were completely destroyed. It was only a matter of time before more than a dozen of the most elite Ukrainian combat brigades, encircled by Russian and Ukrainian forces, were annihilated east of the Dnieper River. America's top authorities, at great political risk, sent active-duty troops to the Ukrainian war zone out of desperation. Because there is no way the US military will give the Ukrainians this system, which contains the best US technology and core US secrets; But without this system, the Ukrainian army would be deaf and blind, unable to complete platoon-level operations without air supremacy, let alone the large regiments of the Dnieper's campaign to break through the western bank.
Today, without the battlefield situational awareness and command capabilities provided by American soldiers and their equipment, the prospect of a major Ukrainian army is conceivable.

A very clear overall picture of what Russia wanted to do and is doing it right now.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506185576025894913

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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> Well said.
> I don't know why people here don't sink in their heads something which all military strategists are saying: Russia has a nuclear BLACKMAIL in this conflict! Simple! You can condemn that all you want but, unless someone from inside Russia stops Putin, he will NOT accept looking defeated. Already NY Times is saying that Russia has plenty of tactical nukes which are 'a fraction of the Hiroshima' nuke in power but enough to obliterate large forces. Add to them the hyperbaric bombs.
> It is true that Americans are not only far ahead in the quality of nukes but also in conventional capabilities but how can you take a chance against an enemy which has so many nukes and may become suicidal if cornered. Out of the 6000 nukes Russia has, if even 10 big ones make to their targets then forget goodbye to the world as we know it.
> 
> This is not some $ick measuring contest where who has what. It is about injecting some very grim reality in the discussion about this conflict and that reality is becoming more and more possible as Russia's advances grind down.


If nuclear blackmail could produce good results North Korea would have conquered half the world already. Hey, dont stop us, or we will use nukes! And North Korea just takes one country after another. lol It does not work like that. 

How it does work is this. You use nuclear blackmail, the other side gives you sanctions until you have no more money. Then they give your opponents weapons to kill your soldiers until you have been drained of money and weapons and the will to fight. Then eventually your people rise up against you.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506369319025975303


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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506377018988015631

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## Viet

Mariupol still stands.
Meanwhile Russia economy is heading to full collapse.


----------



## thetutle

Rafi said:


> My girl and her relatives are hearing some very disturbing news, other than this horrible war, organized crime groups have started to appear in Poland, Moldova and some other countries.
> 
> They are trying to lure young Ukranian women for sex trafficking. 😢 😭 it just breaks your heart, but there are human scum that will try to take advantage of a tragedy.


How does this work? do they keep them in some dungeons? doesn't europe have police? Has anyone here ever tried to buy a human in europe? 

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

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## lcloo

dBSPL said:


> Unbelievable achievement that this Su-25 can land in one piece
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506387456429641729


Probably this is a retired SU-25 used as ground target in a live fire training.

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## WotTen

thetutle said:


> How does this work? do they keep them in some dungeons? doesn't europe have police? Has anyone here ever tried to buy a human in europe?
> 
> This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.



Actually, this is standard in any country 
Same thing happened in Bosnia and Kosova, according to my Serb friends. (They were nice Serbs who were opposed to Milosevic.)
Same thing happened in Afghanistan.


----------



## kingQamaR

WotTen said:


> I hope you can tell the difference between destroyed building and killed civilians.
> 
> The civilian death toll in Ukraine is under 1000 civilians after 4 weeks.



So targeting places where civilians are living isn't murder? Watch the news and go through the footage. War crimes are being committed daily.


----------



## REhorror

Man, long time since I visit.
Sad to see that the threads are full of US-Ukro propaganda, this is why Twitter ought to be banned.

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## kingQamaR

REhorror said:


> Man, long time since I visit.
> Sad to see that the threads are full of US-Ukro propaganda, this is why Twitter ought to be banned.



Putin has raised everything to the ground in Ukraine where ever your boots stamp in. Do not preach moral, please.


----------



## jaybird

REhorror said:


> Man, long time since I visit.
> Sad to see that the threads are full of US-Ukro propaganda, this is why Twitter ought to be banned.



Actually propaganda from both side are being spammed in this thread. There is not much impartiality here. You have to figure out what's real and what's not yourself from thousands of twitter posts. That's why I lost interest in the thread after a few days. Only checks it once a while to see when the war will end.

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## thetutle

WotTen said:


> Actually, this is standard in any country
> Same thing happened in Bosnia and Kosova, according to my Serb friends. (They were nice Serbs who were opposed to Milosevic.)
> Same thing happened in Afghanistan.


Oh come on. You might have some maniac keeping a captured woman in a war zone and raping and killing her, like serbs did in Bosnia or Russians did in Chechnya. But the idea that some woman is being kept in some dungeon in europe is ridiculous. 

This human trafficking sex trade nonsense. Where can I buy a person in europe to take and keep in my dungeon? This is just ridiculous. I have however seen this sort of thing in Hollywood movies.

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## Tamerlane

thetutle said:


> Oh come on. You might have some maniac keeping a captured woman in a war zone and raping and killing her, like serbs did in Bosnia or Russians did in Chechnya. But the idea that some woman is being kept in some dungeon in europe is ridiculous.
> 
> This human trafficking sex trade nonsense. Where can I buy a person in europe to take and keep in my dungeon? This is just ridiculous. I have however seen this sort of thing in Hollywood movies.



They’re not kept in dungeons, they’re used in the prostitution business. 









Exploiting the Poor - Sex Slavery in Europe | DW | 10.03.2021


All they want to do is escape poverty, but they end up in the hands of sex traffickers. Women from Romania in particular, sometimes fall prey to criminal networks while seeking a better life in Germany.




www.google.com


----------



## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506387882512166925


WOW, I remember a video of a Russian POW, giving his name and place of birth etc. And then he was asked, who is your commanding officer. And he hesitated a bit and then said: "Osokin". 

Now about 2 weeks later, The commanding officer is dead. Wow. 

The level of intel the ukranians have is scary,

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506012562231541762

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506477881479757826


----------



## kingQamaR

Yes, they will do and say anything for likes on social media these days. These ruskies will soon have their own onlyfans website.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506432448405639168

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## KAL-EL

REhorror said:


> Man, long time since I visit.
> Sad to see that the threads are full of US-Ukro propaganda, this is why Twitter ought to be banned.



As if 'propaganda' here only goes one way

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505881711233490944

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506470599006240777

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## Avicenna

thetutle said:


> How does this work? do they keep them in some dungeons? doesn't europe have police? Has anyone here ever tried to buy a human in europe?
> 
> This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.



You have no idea.

This is a problem in the US too.

Just a basic wiki article for a primer.









Sex trafficking in the United States - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Do your own research as well.

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## Amliunion

The epic fail of Ukrainian propaganda - in a report about the "destroyed Russian column" they showed the tag of a serviceman Мiщенко О.А.(ukranian soldier/letters) And thats how it goes



Spoiler: Graphic 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506264082973958147

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## lightning F57

Biden will next sanction Putins underwear. Getting really silly now. NATO has showed they can only support economic sanctions and provide light weapons which wont change the end result.


----------



## jamahir

Amliunion said:


> Can anyone shed some light on this? I mean how is this helping in current war?
> 
> 🇷🇺🚀 Space rocket "Soyuz-2.1a" joined the action to support Russian military personnel #ZаНаших !
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506328618640805890
> @LeGenD @RescueRanger ?



It has to be seen in the same context as the Russian Communist party supporting the special operation despite its differences with the Putin government, as does support the Russian space agency as shown earlier too when the flags of NASA, ESA and JAXA on the Soyuz were covered with paper or plastic. But I read an article on Yahoo which was NATO propaganda and spoke glowingly of Russian cosmonauts wearing yellow dress supposedly in support of Zelensky government. LOL.



BlindEagle said:


> I thought Russian Ukrainians aren’t patriotic about ukraine but I was wrong. I also see lots of traitors being caught left and right and Russia is using their punishment as excuse of oppression when they’re the real aggressors.



Traitors ? But isn't Zelensky government all about Western-style freedom, democracy and fairness ?

And do you believe Zelensky and his NATO backers are innocent ?



BlindEagle said:


> Don’t worry about me, I don’t rely on mainstream media for my news like you. I’ve got connections with hobbyist journalists in ukraine with their personal telegram channels. Also I understand the language so it’s easy for me to see the truth from lies.



1. If knowing a language and knowing the local region were the criteria for seeing truth from lies then no outside person would be able to have idea of the wrongs in another society and you wouldn't be a Muslim and I wouldn't be a Communist Muslim.

2. There have been some hobbyist journalists of that kind in the Libya and Syria wars too. They were Al Qaeda or "Muslim" Brotherhood. How do you know that these Ukranian people you know are speaking the actual truth and the Russians are speaking lies ?

3. In human affairs I generally have the not-so-usual ability to know what generally is right and what wrong so please don't presume yourself superior to me in this matter.



Foinikas said:


> I heard that they do it to those they catch stealing,they have done it to white men too. And gypsies are notorious thieves, scammers and criminals in the Balkans and probably Ukraine too...



You may be right partially. Zelensky supporters are using the war to further oppress the Roma gypsy people that they were doing earlier. @Hassan Al-Somal had posted a documentary about this some pages back. Unfortunately I don't remember the post number. But Bleek will be also right as below that Russian speakers are also being tortured as such. And BlindEagle above, a Zelensky supporter member of PDF who was present in Ukraine until the 6th of March, admits that Russian speakers who are "collaborators" are being tortured as such.



Bleek said:


> It was said they were doing it to Russian speakers also

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## jhungary

DF41 said:


> From my WhatsApp.
> Very interesting if proven to be the case later on when fog of war lifted.
> 
> 
> 
> Three Mysterious U.S. Soldiers Killed in Ukraine
> The Russian Defense Ministry has announced that three U.S. service members were killed in a raid on Marinka: Captain Michael Hoke, Lieutenant Logan Schlum and Lt Cruz Tomblin. The 1st Battalion of the 54th Mechanized Brigade of Ukraine, which was responsible for defending American servicemen, was completely wiped out. The US President, Secretary of State, and Defense Secretary have officially declared that they will not send a single soldier to Ukraine, and it has become US policy. Three U.S. service members showed up on the battlefield in Ukraine and were raided by Russia's elite Alpha Group. You know, the combat mission assigned to it must be approved by the Russian Federal Security Service and President Putin.
> The matter immediately caused the military and intelligence community high-level shock!
> The biggest gain of the Russian war was the capture of the three U. S. military operations known as the world's most advanced U. S. battlefield situational awareness command device. This set of GPS positioning, military reconnaissance satellite scanning, reconnaissance aircraft, helicopters and drones battlefield monitoring, military secret communications and timely battlefield command system from the headquarters to the soldiers, is the US military services and arms of the center and soul of coordinated operations. Although one of the main functional configuration of the GPS military-grade positioning accuracy is only decimeter level, far less than the millimeter level of the Chinese BeiDou system, but also three times higher than the Russian GLONASS satellite system positioning accuracy. The impressive Ukrainian ambushes against Russian armored convoys relied on the system's intelligence awareness, battlefield situation analysis and command and control schemes.
> According to the analysis of military experts, within half a month of the war, the communication command system and radar system of the Ukrainian army, which were at the level of the 1970s, were completely destroyed. It was only a matter of time before more than a dozen of the most elite Ukrainian combat brigades, encircled by Russian and Ukrainian forces, were annihilated east of the Dnieper River. America's top authorities, at great political risk, sent active-duty troops to the Ukrainian war zone out of desperation. Because there is no way the US military will give the Ukrainians this system, which contains the best US technology and core US secrets; But without this system, the Ukrainian army would be deaf and blind, unable to complete platoon-level operations without air supremacy, let alone the large regiments of the Dnieper's campaign to break through the western bank.
> Today, without the battlefield situational awareness and command capabilities provided by American soldiers and their equipment, the prospect of a major Ukrainian army is conceivable.
> 
> A very clear overall picture of what Russia wanted to do and is doing it right now.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506185576025894913



Lol, that was debunked.









Russian media claimed 3 US soldiers died in Ukraine. The US military says they left in 2019 and are alive in Tennessee.


Members of the Tennessee National Guard which a Russian newspaper said were killed in Ukrane are in fact alive and well, US officials said.




www.yahoo.com





If Russia source did not listed their name (Captain Michael Hoke, Lieutenant Logan Schlum and Lt Cruz Tomblin), it wouldn't be that easy to debunk, but all 3 were found alive in the US.

The 3 men identity was probably taken with their deployment to Ukraine in 2019 for training mission in the area. And the paperwork were probably come from there.

There are regular rotation of National Guard troop to Ukraine training their National Guard

2019 - Tennessee Army National Guard
2020 - California Army National Guard
2021 - Florida Army National Guard

In fact, I am pretty sure you can find one of the person who were supposed to be killed in Ukraine fighting on Facebook having regular update, I forgot which one....


----------



## Microsoft

Ukrainians basically using human shields by hiding dangerous weapons in shopping malls, hospitals, and other civilian areas.

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## jhungary

Microsoft said:


> Ukrainians basically using human shields by hiding dangerous weapons in shopping malls, hospitals, and other civilian areas.


Dude, you are fighting a war in Ukraine. Where does the Ukrainian Civilian supposed to go? Go to Russia?

You are fighting where people were living. Just because there is a war on does not mean they suddenly ceased to exist.....

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## Amliunion

@Vergennes any update on the 'Boiler Moment ' Tweet? 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506252822983155715
Another The Ghost of Kyiv Moment?


----------



## Viet

too much posters here cheering for Russia war of aggression but condemning war elsewhere, why?

Meanwhile the price for war per Goldman Sachs prediction

Russia economy 

Inflation: +20 percent
Imports: -20 percent
Exports: -10 percent
Interest rate: +20 percent
Gdp: -10 percent

That’s worse than when USSR collapsed.

That’s just the begin.


----------



## Amliunion

jamahir said:


> It has to be seen in the same context as the Russian Communist party supporting the special operation despite its differences with the Putin government, as does support the Russian space agency as shown earlier too when the flags of NASA, ESA and JAXA on the Soyuz were covered with paper or plastic. But I read an article on Yahoo which was NATO propaganda and spoke glowingly of Russian cosmonauts wearing yellow dress supposedly in support of Zelensky government. LOL.


Makes sense! 👍

The BlindEagle claims to live amongst Russian Speaking People in Ukraine but cannot speak Russian. His claims of living in Ukraine is Figment of his imagination.

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## WotTen

thetutle said:


> Oh come on. You might have some maniac keeping a captured woman in a war zone and raping and killing her, like serbs did in Bosnia or Russians did in Chechnya. But the idea that some woman is being kept in some dungeon in europe is ridiculous.
> 
> This human trafficking sex trade nonsense. Where can I buy a person in europe to take and keep in my dungeon? This is just ridiculous. I have however seen this sort of thing in Hollywood movies.



Would you find it more believable if they were kept in suburban houses in Italy? Not every dungeon has to look like a medieval dungeon.

Large scale international trafficking of women for sex is a very real business. I can't believe we are even debating its existence.

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## NotSure

According to Anatoly Shariy the attack on the 79th brigade in Nikolaev killed 294 Ukr soldiers. He is considering to publicate the whole list of killed in this strike.








NotSure said:


> The Palyanitsya base in Nikolaev got a new "kalibration" today, dozents dead and more wounded. Buildings full with sleeping (?) soldiers got hit by cruise missiles. Pure carnage.
> 
> Gruesome pictures:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Link to pol and pictures:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/367963248/#367964659
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://****/intelslava/22776

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506502213321039878

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## kingQamaR

The number of pro Putin comments on here are highly disturbing


----------



## jamahir

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506470599006240777



@BlindEagle

And Amliunion, look at Google result for "Melitopol". Already Wikipedia has been edited to say "Russian military occupation" and look at the media reports on the left :







Amliunion said:


> The BlindEagle claims to live amongst Russian Speaking People in Ukraine but cannot speak Russian. His claims of living in Ukraine is Figment of his imagination.



BlindEagle is a long-time member of PDF. He was earlier @Michael Corleone but then permabanned for that account. He was supposedly a medical student in Ukraine until the 6th of March but you have found out that he doesn't speak Russian despite his earlier claims to me too that he lives in a Russian-speaking region. His claims must be taken with a handful of salt.



jhungary said:


> Dude, you are fighting a war in Ukraine. Where does the Ukrainian Civilian supposed to go? Go to Russia?
> 
> You are fighting where people were living. Just because there is a war on does not mean they suddenly ceased to exist.....



Do you understand what human shields are ? But of course you as an American military person do know. You are big users of that foul idea.



Viet said:


> too much posters here cheering for Russia war of aggression but condemning war elsewhere, why?
> 
> Meanwhile the price for war per Goldman Sachs prediction
> 
> Russia economy
> 
> Inflation: +20 percent
> Imports: -20 percent
> Exports: -10 percent
> Interest rate: +20 percent
> Gdp: -10 percent
> 
> That’s worse than when USSR collapsed.
> 
> That’s just the begin.



Your words always indicate that if you had been alive in the 1970s you would have been against the North Vietnamese Communists.

And to hell with that Capitalist agency Goldman Sachs and its likes and interest-based economics. The Wall Street and the London Stock Exchange should be abolished. The Occupy Movement of 2011 wanted exactly that until the Western governments sabotaged the movement.



kingQamaR said:


> The number of pro Putin comments on here are highly disturbing



I also find disturbing presence of TJ people like you who hate Russia because of historic ideological reasons.

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## thetutle

WotTen said:


> Would you find it more believable if they were kept in suburban houses in Italy? Not every dungeon has to look like a medieval dungeon.
> 
> Large scale international trafficking of women for sex is a very real business. I can't believe we are even debating its existence.


ok, Im just wondering where I could buy a person in the EU or europe generally? And I suppose if someone did buy a trafficked person and took them home they would just stay there and don't run away and go to the police the first chance they get? And I suppose if they did run away to the police, the police are so corrupt that they would just return them to their "owner". Nice story bro.


----------



## Messerschmitt

Viet said:


> too much posters here cheering for Russia war of aggression but condemning war elsewhere, why?
> 
> Meanwhile the price for war per Goldman Sachs prediction
> 
> Russia economy
> 
> Inflation: +20 percent
> Imports: -20 percent
> Exports: -10 percent
> Interest rate: +20 percent
> Gdp: -10 percent
> 
> That’s worse than when USSR collapsed.
> 
> That’s just the begin.


Russian invasion good, western invasion bad.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Can someone explain these numbers to me?

Does Russia have a secret necromancer squad or something???

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## Zibago

Viet said:


> too much posters here cheering for Russia war of aggression but condemning war elsewhere, why?
> 
> Meanwhile the price for war per Goldman Sachs prediction
> 
> Russia economy
> 
> Inflation: +20 percent
> Imports: -20 percent
> Exports: -10 percent
> Interest rate: +20 percent
> Gdp: -10 percent
> 
> That’s worse than when USSR collapsed.
> 
> That’s just the begin.


We all get fucked (pardon mon Francois )

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## kingQamaR

jamahir said:


> @BlindEagle.
> 
> And Amliunion, look at Google result for "Melitopol". Already Wikipedia has been edited to say "Russian military occupation" and look at the media reports on the left :
> View attachment 826439
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlindEagle is a long-time member of PDF. He was earlier @Michael Corleone but then permabanned for that account. He was supposedly a medical student in Ukraine until the 6th of March but you have found out that he doesn't speak Russian despite his earlier claims to me too that he lives in a Russian-speaking region. His claims must be taken with a handful of salt.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you understand what human shields are ? But of course you as an American military person do know. You are big users of that foul idea.
> 
> 
> 
> Your words always indicate that if you had been alive in the 1970s you would have been against the North Vietnamese Communists.
> 
> And to hell with that Capitalist agency Goldman Sachs and its likes and interest-based economics. The Wall Street and the London Stock Exchange should be abolished. The Occupy Movement of 2011 wanted exactly that until the Western governments sabotaged the movement.
> 
> 
> 
> I also find disturbing presence of TJ people like you who hate Russia because of historic ideological reasons.





Truth is the first casualty of war and this one is no exception. Whatever you do, don't believe that okay 

Because you are an uncaring and insensitive idiot.


----------



## jamahir

kingQamaR said:


> Truth is the first casualty of war and this one is no exception. Whatever you do, don't believe that okay



For which part of my post are you answering that ?



kingQamaR said:


> Because you are an uncaring and insensitive idiot.



Before you say that do go through these threads of mine from among others where I am anything but an uncaring and insensitive idiot :








India - Yet another Indian student suicides because of an exam


Caught copying in exam, college girl jumps to death in Bengaluru The parents said Bhavya ended her life as the college had debarred her H M Chaithanya Swamy, DHNS, Bengaluru, MAR 05 2022, 23:53 IST UPDATED: MAR 06 2022, 06:38 IST A 19-year-old B Com student allegedly killed herself by...



defence.pk









India - Dalit cook sacked in Uttarakhand after upper caste students refuse to eat food prepared by her


Dalit cook sacked in Uttarakhand after upper caste students refuse to eat food prepared by her PTI DEHRADUN, DECEMBER 23, 2021 17:56 IST UPDATED: DECEMBER 23, 2021 18:20 IST The incident occurred at a school in Sukhidhang in Champawat district of Uttarakhand A Dalit woman who served mid-day...



defence.pk









Who is the anti-national in India ?


The Hindutva right-wing groups ( BJP, RSS etc ) in India and their many supporters in the visual and print media, on Twitter and on various websites are fond of assigning the phrase "anti-national" and so demonizing certain groups who either revolt against the right-wingers or don't fit into the...



defence.pk












India - The case of the Muslim youth chopped up because of inter-faith love affair


Railway cops hand over Khanapur youth murder case to district police As the murder took place elsewhere, it was handed over to the district police for investigation DHNS, Belagavi, OCT 04 2021, 22:15 IST UPDATED: OCT 05 2021, 07:32 IST The railway police have handed over the investigation...



defence.pk












India - Jobless engineer slits son's throat, takes poison with wife : Cops


Jobless Engineer Slits Son's Throat, Takes Poison With Wife: Cops Both the man (55) and his wife were in acute depression, according to a primary probe based on the latter's statements. Her statements also revealed that the couple had planned the entire episode nearly two to three days ago...



defence.pk


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## kingQamaR

Call it as you see it. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.


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## WotTen

thetutle said:


> ok, Im just wondering where I could buy a person in the EU or europe generally? And I suppose if someone did buy a trafficked person and took them home they would just stay there and don't run away and go to the police the first chance they get? And I suppose if they did run away to the police, the police are so corrupt that they would just return them to their "owner". Nice story bro.



The international traffickers sell the women to local prostitution rings who have many ways to keep women under control. It's even easier to control foreign women who don't speak the language, have no money, no friends or relatives, nothing.

It really is not rocket science.

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## kingQamaR

Prostitution is the oldest professional in the world and it’s very sad for woman who are trapped in it

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## DF41



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## MajesticPug

Messerschmitt said:


> Russian invasion good, western invasion bad.



Don't sound sour. It's not whether Russian or western invasions are bad or good. It's the nature, and the reasons leading to an invasion. The last US invasions were almost all bad, all under false pretense: Iraq for some 'laundry' powder and Syria for a 'white helmet' chemical attack. This Russian one is reasonable, given Russia has warned the US and Ukraine numerous times about NATO membership and deploying missiles in Ukraine. Ukraine didn't listen and didn't bother to listen to Russia's repeated warnings. Ukraine even stepped up its attacks using American-supplied weapons on the two eastern provinces, where the majority of the population is Russian.

Didn't Kissinger and a number of former generals warn Biden not to play with an angry, feeling-insecured bear? You can only poke at the bear so many times before the bear attacks you.

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## Danish Moazzam

This is a high end game and it requires a lot of money, people from all levels are involved. 

It is a huge industry

not relaible but still,

read this wiki source








Human trafficking - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## thetutle

Tamerlane said:


> They’re not kept in dungeons, they’re used in the prostitution business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exploiting the Poor - Sex Slavery in Europe | DW | 10.03.2021
> 
> 
> All they want to do is escape poverty, but they end up in the hands of sex traffickers. Women from Romania in particular, sometimes fall prey to criminal networks while seeking a better life in Germany.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


Yeah they are lured to Germany with promises of well paid jobs. Yeah. prostitution is well paid job. If you don't like it you go and wash dishes or work at McDonalds. 

Anyway this is just to dispel the myth that someone is kidnapping ukrnains and forcing them into prostitution. This is just nonsense, europe has police. believe it or not. 

I challenge anyone to kidnap someone or buy a person in europe and get away with it. This is fairytale stuff.

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## DF41

jhungary said:


> Lol, that was debunked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian media claimed 3 US soldiers died in Ukraine. The US military says they left in 2019 and are alive in Tennessee.
> 
> 
> Members of the Tennessee National Guard which a Russian newspaper said were killed in Ukrane are in fact alive and well, US officials said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Russia source did not listed their name (Captain Michael Hoke, Lieutenant Logan Schlum and Lt Cruz Tomblin), it wouldn't be that easy to debunk, but all 3 were found alive in the US.
> 
> The 3 men identity was probably taken with their deployment to Ukraine in 2019 for training mission in the area. And the paperwork were probably come from there.
> 
> There are regular rotation of National Guard troop to Ukraine training their National Guard
> 
> 2019 - Tennessee Army National Guard
> 2020 - California Army National Guard
> 2021 - Florida Army National Guard
> 
> In fact, I am pretty sure you can find one of the person who were supposed to be killed in Ukraine fighting on Facebook having regular update, I forgot which one....




Your credility is about as high as that from USA news media and that from Ukraine regime.

Such as the deaths at Snake Island on claimed kills by Russian on Ukrainian soldiers when all were shown to be alive.
Or that of Zelensky pretending to be in Kiev when he was hidling in Poland in front of green screen.

Or that of the destruction of entire Russian column
The epic fail of Ukrainian propaganda - in a report about the "destroyed Russian column" they showed the tag of a serviceman Мiщенко О.А.(ukranian soldier/letters) And thats how it goes

A lot more of course. But it is so tedious to list them all out and I got better things to do.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506405420944052227
And there are people believing it,mainly from rogue countries like China or third world countries. 



DF41 said:


> Your credility is about as high as that from USA news media and that from Ukraine regime.
> 
> Such as the deaths at Snake Island on claimed kills by Russian on Ukrainian soldiers when all were shown to be alive.
> Or that of Zelensky pretending to be in Kiev when he was hidling in Poland in front of green screen.
> 
> Or that of the destruction of entire Russian column
> The epic fail of Ukrainian propaganda - in a report about the "destroyed Russian column" they showed the tag of a serviceman Мiщенко О.А.(ukranian soldier/letters) And thats how it goes



Are you aware that the vehicles shown in the video are Russians ?

A tigr armored vehicle and a kamaz supply truck.


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## jhungary

jamahir said:


> @BlindEagle.
> 
> And Amliunion, look at Google result for "Melitopol". Already Wikipedia has been edited to say "Russian military occupation" and look at the media reports on the left :
> View attachment 826439
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlindEagle is a long-time member of PDF. He was earlier @Michael Corleone but then permabanned for that account. He was supposedly a medical student in Ukraine until the 6th of March but you have found out that he doesn't speak Russian despite his earlier claims to me too that he lives in a Russian-speaking region. His claims must be taken with a handful of salt.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you understand what human shields are ? But of course you as an American military person do know. You are big users of that foul idea.
> 
> 
> 
> Your words always indicate that if you had been alive in the 1970s you would have been against the North Vietnamese Communists.
> 
> And to hell with that Capitalist agency Goldman Sachs and its likes and interest-based economics. The Wall Street and the London Stock Exchange should be abolished. The Occupy Movement of 2011 wanted exactly that until the Western governments sabotaged the movement.
> 
> 
> 
> I also find disturbing presence of TJ people like you who hate Russia because of historic ideological reasons.


I understand you should not shoot at anything that had written "Children" in it, it's one thing you shoot people and people got into cross fire, it's another thing you shoot something that can be easily identify as civilian structure. I mean, bombing that theatre is probably new low. I mean, it's not like you have soldier on the outside of the theatre that shoot inside where you can see who is inside the structure. 

Fire artillery round and missile without IDing the building is just low. Regardless how much you hated the Ukrainian.


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## Amliunion

Desperate 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506546101716877318

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506549170508869635

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## jhungary

DF41 said:


> Your credility is about as high as that from USA news media and that from Ukraine regime.
> 
> Such as the deaths at Snake Island on claimed kills by Russian on Ukrainian soldiers when all were shown to be alive.
> Or that of Zelensky pretending to be in Kiev when he was hidling in Poland in front of green screen.
> 
> Or that of the destruction of entire Russian column
> The epic fail of Ukrainian propaganda - in a report about the "destroyed Russian column" they showed the tag of a serviceman Мiщенко О.А.(ukranian soldier/letters) And thats how it goes
> 
> A lot more of course. But it is so tedious to list them all out and I got better things to do.


Again, this is not my creditability. It's name and record.

The Russian listed 3 names here, three men with those 3 name with their military ID show their ID and show that they are still alive. It's not like you can make up record as they goes. As I said, you can talk to one of them on facebook if you want to.

I mean, propaganda is one thing, but naming the three people you kill so they can be easily verify is probably the stupidest propaganda I have ever seen...

On the other hand, what do the Russian show? Did they show their CIC card? Or Commissary card? No, because those 3 dude still have them with them in the US....

By the way, I have saw the Russian release photo, the uniform that they show (Along with the flag with the 3 men name in it) is for an Senior Airmen with the US AF, the three people were in the Army National Guard, and all 3 were officers.....This is not even a fake job, this is a dumb job.


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## thetutle

Tamerlane said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501379678774480900


lets measure it by tones of explosives delivered on target. 

If Israel delivered onto gaza the amount of explosives that russia has so far delivered onto Ukraine, we would no have a gaza issue to worry about anymore.

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## Amliunion

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506405420944052227
> And there are people believing it,mainly from rogue countries like China or third world countries.



First world Countries: Those who attacked Iraq and carried out Genocide on Pretext of Weapons of Mass Destruction. Later carried out Genocide in Libya without any Rhyme & Reasons. Self-righteous Mass Murderous! 


On Topic:



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506550535549177861

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## northeast

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506405420944052227
> And there are people believing it,mainly from rogue countries like China or third world countries.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you aware that the vehicles shown in the video are Russians ?
> 
> A tigr armored vehicle and a kamaz supply truck.


The true rogue country use washing powder as the reason of war,to kill hundreds of thousands of civillians. Your country is not a rogue country,just a puppet doggy of a rogue country.

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## DF41

jhungary said:


> Again, this is not my creditability. It's name and record.
> 
> The Russian listed 3 names here, three men with those 3 name with their military ID show their ID and show that they are still alive. It's not like you can make up record as they goes. As I said, you can talk to one of them on facebook if you want to.
> 
> I mean, propaganda is one thing, but naming the three people you kill so they can be easily verify is probably the stupidest propaganda I have ever seen...
> 
> On the other hand, what do the Russian show? Did they show their CIC card? Or Commissary card? No, because those 3 dude still have them with them in the US....
> 
> By the way, I have saw the Russian release photo, the uniform that they show (Along with the flag with the 3 men name in it) is for an Senior Airmen with the US AF, the three people were in the Army National Guard, and all 3 were officers.....This is not even a fake job, this is a dumb job.


*yawn*

Bye bye. 

I was going to block you but hold off being tolerant of your views.

Not anymore


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## Amliunion

Footage of the launch of sea-based Kalibr cruise missiles:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506552975573106690

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506552226637967360


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## thetutle

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506432448405639168


This bonehead is surprised the government is keeping their military operations against russia secret. lol. how disingenuous of them.


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## jhungary

DF41 said:


> *yawn*
> 
> Bye bye.
> 
> I was going to block you but hold off being tolerant of your views.
> 
> Not anymore


Again, it's not my view.

These 3 dude they claim it was dead come out and match with their Military Record and their deployment photo. I mean, what more proof do you want??


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Wood said:


>




But I don't see any "Z" or "V" signs on those destroyed or inactive tanks. So can anyone prove those tanks belonged to the Russian army?

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## Amliunion

And then the Crib why Civilians Infrastructure is attacked:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506557612900315137

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## thetutle

Viet said:


> too much posters here cheering for Russia war of aggression but condemning war elsewhere, why?


They re just people who don't stand for anything but enjoy other peoples misery.

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## Ich

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Can someone explain these numbers to me?
> 
> Does Russia have a secret necromancer squad or something???
> 
> View attachment 826441


Look also at the tanks and artillery ^^

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506561118713442308

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506086060534779906

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## DF41

https://dailytelegraph.co.nz/opinio...e-clandestine-investment-clandestine-biolabs/




HUNTER BIDEN BIOLAB REVELATIONS: THE BEGINNING OF THE END FOR THE WEST’S FAKE UKRAINIAN NARRATIVE​

ByDaily Telegraph NZ
March 13, 2022


*Documents previously deleted from the Internet but recovered by independent US investigative journalists show Hunter Biden’s company Rosemont Seneca funded the construction of secret biolabs in Ukraine.*
The US has denied the existence of the biolabs for years, but the truth was exposed last week as Russian forces marched through Ukrainian territory and discovered a network of more than 30 of the clandestine facilities.
The Biden administration initially flip-flopped on the allegation. Until recently so-called ‘independent fact-checkers’ continued to deny their existence, calling the claim ‘Russian disinformation.’
However, this week senior US diplomat for Russian affairs Victoria Nuland admitted under oath to the existence of the biolabs, and further, that she had ‘grave concerns if they were to fall into Russian hands.’ The admission surprised many observers, with some wondering if Nuland had made it inadvertently.
The Nuland admission proves that Russian President Vladimir Putin was right all along: that the US was funding and operating illegal and top secret pathogen laboratories for nefarious purposes on Russia’s doorstep. Here, it is alleged by the Russians (who claim to have evidence they intend to produce in the United Nations), biological warfare products were created and advanced research of them conducted in contravention of the Biologicial and Toxin Weapons Treaty of 1975. What is even more shocking, is the allegation the son of the sitting US President was bankrolling these activities. That the purpose of the labs was nefarious now appears undeniable. Why else would the US have denied their existence for so long? And why would Nuland have any ‘concerns’ about them falling under Russian control if they were just standard laboratoties? And why were public documents connecting Hunter Biden’s company to them scrubbed from the Internet?









The irony is that for years, successive US adminitrations, whipped up by legacy MSM hysteria, have accused a litany of foreign leaders of secretly possessing similar facilities when it is they themselves who have actually done so; and doing it in the heart of Europe, no less. The fact we are only learning about it now is not simply a case of the Russians finding them now – Putin has rightly complained about the labs for years.

The legacy MSM were silent about these US-funded labs because they are part of the conspiracy to cover their existence up. As many have now seen during COVID, they work hand-in-hand with governments and the ‘elites’ to suppress information. They spread misinformation and attack and censor those who report alternative facts or dissent.

Can you imagine the outrage in the legacy MSM if one of Putin’s daugthers had secretly funded a network of biolabs in Mexico? They would be calling for Putin’s head. Yet so far, in this developing story of huge importance which calls into question the west’s role in creating this crisis, we hear crickets, and a regurgitation of the false ‘fact-checking’.

For those interested, the investigation into Biden Jnr’s financial and investment links to the Ukrainian biolabs was undertaken and reported on by The Gateway Pundit.

Legacy mainstream media and the Ukrainian narrative​Here’s a summary of the Ukraine narrative the legacy MSM want you to believe:


Russia has engaged in an unjustified and unprovoked war of aggression against a small, innocent neighbour.
Spear-heading this ‘outrageous war crime’ is the stereotypical ‘arch-villian’, the ex-KGB agent Russian President, Vladimir Putin.
The innocent victim, Ukraine, is a ‘heroic’ underdog, led by the ‘inspirational’ Volodymyr Zelensky.
Against all odds, the Ukrainians are standing firm, even inflicting casualties and material damage against its more fancied, bigger opponent.
The Russian ‘invasion’ has resulted in a humanitarian crisis, civilian deaths, and the bombing of civilian targets, including hospitals and schools, which amount to war crimes.
The narrative is hogwash. The COVID narrative was hogwash, as was the Syrian, Libyan, Afghanistani, Iraqi one before it. Ask yourself, why would it be any different in the case of Ukraine? If it has been proven the legacy MSM lied about all these major geopolitical events and crises before, how can they be trusted to be telling you the truth about Ukraine, especially when any opposing or dissenting reports are being censored out of existence on the Internet and social media?

Putin has tried since 2014 to reach a peaceful settlement of the Ukraine issue. His attempts have been treated with contempt by NATO and the West. Ukraine, supported from the shadows by the demonic US Deep State apparatus, has never complied with the terms of the Minsk Agreement; an agreement which provided a simple roadmap for the peaceful settlement of the Donbass issue. Instead, Zelensky’s forces have shelled the Donbass for months and committed other attrocities which have seen 14,000 ethnic civilian Russians killed. As Russian diplomat Maria Zakhorova recently said, the body count in Ukraine began back in 2014, and not with the Russian operation. Russia didn’t start this crisis, but it intends to finish it.

There were no ‘howls of protest’ in New Zealand’s legacy MSM when Zelensky bombed ethnic Russian townships every day, or when he approved the creation of military units comprised solely of neo-Nazis. Yes, you read that right – NAZIS – haters of Jews, gays, blacks, Muslims and immigrants. The west is funding, arming and cheerleeding an army comprised in part, by soldiers who worship Adolf Hitler and the SS. Nor did they protest when Zelensky closed down three TV stations that were critical of him, or when he arrested the main opposition leader. Instead, they accuse Putin of such crimes.

For years Putin has shown restraint in the face of provocation. But his restraint has limits. He has repeatedly spoke of his ‘red line’, which is that Ukraine must never join NATO, and any attempt to bring the country into that organisation would result in military conflict. NATO danced close to that red line and have now stepped over it.

As a retired US Colonel recently told Fox News, Ukrainian neutrality is the best outcome for everyone. It also makes logical sense, given half the country is pro-west, and the other pro-Russian. Why is the west insisting it chose them?

The Ukrainian army is large, well-trained and well-equipped – a much more formidable foe on paper than those of Vietnam and Afghanistan, which inflicted embarrasing loses on larger more advanced western militaries.

Despite the talk-up of ‘heroic’ resistance, it now appears inevitable the main force of the Ukrainian army will either disintegrate or surrender within weeks, as reports of the encirclement of the eastern Ukrainian forces are now confirmed.

The west’s reporting of the Russian military operation shows an ignorance of Russian military history and tactics. Whereas the West will go for a war ‘made for TV’ with shock and awe tactics, the Russian way is more patient and based on encirclement tactics they used to great effect to subdue and repel Hitler’s advance in World War II, and more recently, in Syria. The aim is to ensure opposition forces are trapped in a ‘cauldron’. Life steadily becomes more unbearable to the point where the trapped force just gives up or disintegrates. This patient way also has the advantage of lessening civilian casualties and preserving civilian infrastructure.

Unless the Ukrainians can break out of the encirlcement or are relieved from the outside (ie. by NATO), disintegration or destruction of the main body of the Ukrainian army is inevitable. It is a military fact. And the fact is, there won’t be a breakout, and NATO isn’t coming.

The most heroic thing Zelensky can do is accept the inevitability and come to terms with the Russians. This will save countless innocent Ukrainian lives. It will also preserve the country’s infrastructure.

However, following the orders of western elites safely ensconsed in offices thousands of miles from the frontline, Zelensky appears to be intent on remaining defiant – although his messages seem to change each day, oscillating between defiance one day, and appeasement of Russia the next.

Rather than save the lives of innocent Ukrainians and the future of the country, NATO and the western elites are intent on seeing its inevitable destruction. This perverse attitude is aided by the legacy MSM’s dissemination of fake news in an effort to manufacture public consent for a continuation of this now pointless resistance.

We have seen fake reports every day in the legacy MSM about hospitals, atrocities and battle outcomes, use of video game footage to depict real life battles, fake photos of alleged Russian atrocities and Ukrainian victims, alleged Russian battle loses and use of chemical weapons, doctored and misleading videos, crisis actors and fake defectors.

The legacy MSM never seem to learn that this misinformation will in due course be debunked, and their falsehoods exposed yet again, as they were in Syria, Afghanistan, Libya, Vietnam and Iraq. In fact, in this particular conflict, they would have been debunked in real time, but for the blanket censorship of Russian media from the Internet. And they wonder why no one trusts the legacy MSM anymore.

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## Xerxes22

Russia must annex entire Ukraine then keep a front footed expansionist approach towards the west.


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## Constantin84

Tamerlane said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501379678774480900


A missile is different from a shell.....


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## Hassan Al-Somal

🇷🇺🇺🇦 Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry 

▫️Units of the Russian Armed Forces continue to destroy units of the 54th Separate Mechanized Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Currently, they are fighting for the capture of Novomikhailovka.

▫️The grouping of troops of the Donetsk People's Republic, having completed clearing of Verkhnetoretskoe from nationalists, continued to pursue the retreating units of 25th Airborne Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and took control of Novobakhmutovka railway station. During the night, 3 tanks, 2 infantry fighting vehicles and 6 all-terrain vehicles were destroyed in this area.

▫️On the evening of March 22, high-precision long-range sea-based weapons struck an arms depot in Orzhev, 14 kilometers northwest of Rovno city. As a result of the strike, a large depot of weapons and military equipment of the Ukrainian troops, including those received from Western countries, was destroyed.

✈️💥Operational-tactical, army aviation and missile troops hit 97 military assets of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Among them: 2 launchers and 1 transport-loading vehicle of the Tochka-U tactical missile system in an industrial zone on the northern outskirts of Kiev, 8 anti-aircraft missile systems, including: 6 Buk-M1, 1 S-300 and 1 Osa combat vehicle, 10 command posts, 8 field artillery guns, as well as 3 artillery reconnaissance stations of NATO manufacture.

💥The Russian air defence means shot down 1 Su-24 near Izyum city, 16 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles in the air, including 3 Bayraktar TB-2 near Rozhin, Karashev and Maxim Gorky.

🚁💥The group of "night hunters" consisting of Ka-52 and Mi-28n helicopters destroyed 8 tanks, 5 infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers, 9 vehicles and towing trucks, 3 permanent fire position and 7 field artillery and mortars during night strikes.

💥In total, 184 aircraft and helicopters of the Ukrainian Air Force, 246 unmanned aerial vehicles, 189 anti-aircraft missile systems, 1,558 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 156 multiple launch rocket systems, 624 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,354 units of special military vehicles were destroyed during the operation. 

#Russia #Ukraine #Briefing 
@mod_russia_en

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## Xerxes22

thetutle said:


> Yeah they are lured to Germany with promises of well paid jobs. Yeah. prostitution is well paid job. If you don't like it you go and wash dishes or work at McDonalds.
> 
> Anyway this is just to dispel the myth that someone is kidnapping ukrnains and forcing them into prostitution. This is just nonsense, europe has police. believe it or not.
> 
> I challenge anyone to kidnap someone or buy a person in europe and get away with it. This is fairytale stuff.


No it's not. Human trafficking is a serious problem in Europe and they are operated at the top By intelligence agencies for add ons to their budget for rogue operations.

Also there are satanic child pedophile rings. There are cannibal rings and those who provide homeless men women and kidnapped children to be ritually abused by the elite. The law enforcement at the highest levels are also involved in controling this situation and putting it under the rug.

You always say everything in the opposite of truth. If anyone wants to know what's really going on they just need to reverse whatever that u said. I can't believe such misinformed people like u still exist. And it's surprising you are a Bosnian.

Belgium is the hot spot for child sex trafficking, human trafficking and all sorts of other things. Be careful everyone if you are in Belgium

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## OldTwilight

gambit said:


> I pulled out a Cold War era printed doc from my household goods storage about Soviet battlefield doctrine regarding the use of airpower. Something about the VKS behavior bugged me.
> 
> Ref the use of airpower in this war, the Russian air commander seems to have regressed back to his Soviet predecessors: *airborne artillery*. Basically, for this war, the Russian air commander is operationally, not just organizationally, under the Russian ground commander, whereas with Desert Storm, while Norman Schwarzkopf was the overall commander, Schwarzkopf just inform his air commander Charles Horner what he wanted and let Horner worked out the details. Whoever is the Russian air commander here, he seems to be waiting...and waiting...and waiting...for his orders.
> 
> *Airborne artillery* was the phrase I was looking for. The concept is old and operationally, it is unadaptable or at best limited utility to technological progress. _Philosophically,_ _aviation affects time_ (the actual phrase in this doc) so when the Soviets put the air commander under the ground commander, the entire pace of the war depends on how much knowledge the ground commander have about airpower in general. As such, Soviet airpower tends to attack targets that can affect the battle at best 24 hrs in the future. US airpower doctrine going back to the WW II US Army Air Corps days, attacked oil refineries and ballbearing factories, attacked targets that can affect battles weeks and months in the future, meaning crude oil do not become lubricants and avgas until days or weeks of refinement, then more time transport to the front. This is why USAAC commanders felt they had to be institutionally separated from the Army to develop their own war doctrines. So had there been a war on CONEUR, Soviet airpower doctrine would have the VKS cleared the battlefields before the Soviet Army as Army units, like armor, moves below. Strategic targets would fall under the Soviet Rocket Forces, re ICBMs.
> 
> For the Russian military today and here in Ukraine, it seems that while the VKS is apart from the Russian Army on paper, doctrinally, there has been little change since the Cold War yrs. The *airborne artillery* concept do not, or cannot, compensate for advances like drones, which are essentially airborne guerrilla warfare against advancing ground forces. If armor, for example, is slowed down for any reason, the air force must be proportionally restrained. But what if the Ukrainian Air Force managed to put up a fight? Then until the VKS achieve *LOCAL* air superiority, meaning maybe a few dozen klicks out front, the Russian Army must be proportionally limited. Currently, the Ukrainian Air Force is too few in numbers. So it seems good fortune for the Russian military that Ukrainian airpower is nothing like US/NATO.





Xerxes22 said:


> Russia must annex entire Ukraine then keep a front footed expansionist approach towards the west.


prolonged war is Iran best option


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## jhungary

gambit said:


> I pulled out a Cold War era printed doc from my household goods storage about Soviet battlefield doctrine regarding the use of airpower. Something about the VKS behavior bugged me.
> 
> Ref the use of airpower in this war, the Russian air commander seems to have regressed back to his Soviet predecessors: *airborne artillery*. Basically, for this war, the Russian air commander is operationally, not just organizationally, under the Russian ground commander, whereas with Desert Storm, while Norman Schwarzkopf was the overall commander, Schwarzkopf just inform his air commander Charles Horner what he wanted and let Horner worked out the details. Whoever is the Russian air commander here, he seems to be waiting...and waiting...and waiting...for his orders.
> 
> *Airborne artillery* was the phrase I was looking for. The concept is old and operationally, it is unadaptable or at best limited utility to technological progress. _Philosophically,_ _aviation affects time_ (the actual phrase in this doc) so when the Soviets put the air commander under the ground commander, the entire pace of the war depends on how much knowledge the ground commander have about airpower in general. As such, Soviet airpower tends to attack targets that can affect the battle at best 24 hrs in the future. US airpower doctrine going back to the WW II US Army Air Corps days, attacked oil refineries and ballbearing factories, attacked targets that can affect battles weeks and months in the future, meaning crude oil do not become lubricants and avgas until days or weeks of refinement, then more time transport to the front. This is why USAAC commanders felt they had to be institutionally separated from the Army to develop their own war doctrines. So had there been a war on CONEUR, Soviet airpower doctrine would have the VKS cleared the battlefields before the Soviet Army as Army units, like armor, moves below. Strategic targets would fall under the Soviet Rocket Forces, re ICBMs.
> 
> For the Russian military today and here in Ukraine, it seems that while the VKS is apart from the Russian Army on paper, doctrinally, there has been little change since the Cold War yrs. The *airborne artillery* concept do not, or cannot, compensate for advances like drones, which are essentially airborne guerrilla warfare against advancing ground forces. If armor, for example, is slowed down for any reason, the air force must be proportionally restrained. But what if the Ukrainian Air Force managed to put up a fight? Then until the VKS achieve *LOCAL* air superiority, meaning maybe a few dozen klicks out front, the Russian Army must be proportionally limited. Currently, the Ukrainian Air Force is too few in numbers. So it seems good fortune for the Russian military that Ukrainian airpower is nothing like US/NATO.


Not being a pilot, I don't know about Airborne Artillery.

But I can tell you one thing that I know and Gen Marks did not say.

The battleplan have me scratching my head for quite some time. I mean, I get why they attack Kyiv, and why they want to take Mariupol and Odesa, but I cannot figure out why they start a front with Kharkiv? The entire issue with Kharkiv is an outliner to me, the only reason I can think of for them to take it is for its historical significance. But then it would not help the main effort one bit.

Strategically, the breaking down into 2 or 3 routes is a mistake, Russian own the ocean, and troop in Crimea would mean you would have already pin down the Defender inside Mariupol and Odesa, then why attack them? I mean, if you look at it, they did not attack Odesa but they manage to pin the defender in place, but with Mariupol, especially with the ground troop near the separatist region, You really don't need to go toe to toe on them, and now, you don't just pin their troop, you pin down yours too. 

That is the reason for me to think, who is actually in charge of the battlefield here, because the decision that was made here does not make sense at all. If you want to take Kyiv, you go heavy on Kyiv, you don't jerk around in other place and dilute your power. I mean, if there is an overall objective, and an overall commander to oversee the overall objective, I don''t think this is going to happen like this.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Viet said:


> too much posters here cheering for Russia war of aggression but condemning war elsewhere, why?
> 
> Meanwhile the price for war per Goldman Sachs prediction
> 
> Russia economy
> 
> Inflation: +20 percent
> Imports: -20 percent
> Exports: -10 percent
> Interest rate: +20 percent
> Gdp: -10 percent
> 
> That’s worse than when USSR collapsed.
> 
> That’s just the begin.




And how much do you pay at the gas pump? The sanctions on Russia is biting everyone else.

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## Xerxes22

OldTwilight said:


> prolonged war is Iran best option


In the long term I don't think so. Iran needs a hyped up coked up Russia in the long term. Russia being public enemy number one is great for Iran since now Iran can buy whatever military equipment they want from Russia.

And If the nuclear deal goes to hell even better for Iran and in that case Iran should propose to Russia to move sum of its strategic nuclear arsenal to be based in Iran.

Iran should go rogue as well. And get married to Russia and the two of them shud go absolutely nuts on the west.

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## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> Not being a pilot, I don't know about Airborne Artillery.
> 
> But I can tell you one thing that I know and Gen Marks did not say.
> 
> The battleplan have me scratching my head for quite some time. I mean, I get why they attack Kyiv, and why they want to take Mariupol and Odesa, but I cannot figure out why they start a front with Kharkiv? The entire issue with Kharkiv is an outliner to me, the only reason I can think of for them to take it is for its historical significance. But then it would not help the main effort one bit.
> 
> Strategically, the breaking down into 2 or 3 routes is a mistake, Russian own the ocean, and troop in Crimea would mean you would have already pin down the Defender inside Mariupol and Odesa, then why attack them? I mean, if you look at it, they did not attack Odesa but they manage to pin the defender in place, but with Mariupol, especially with the ground troop near the separatist region, You really don't need to go toe to toe on them, and now, you don't just pin their troop, you pin down yours too.
> 
> That is the reason for me to think, who is actually in charge of the battlefield here, because the decision that was made here does not make sense at all. If you want to take Kyiv, you go heavy on Kyiv, you don't jerk around in other place and dilute your power. I mean, if there is an overall objective, and an overall commander to oversee the overall objective, I don''t think this is going to happen like this.


Kharkiv is heavily ethnic Russian and they may have expected an uprising from the Russian population in support of the Russian Army. This obviously didn't happen but if it did, Kharkiv would've been a cakewalk and the entire Ukrainian eastern front would've been encircled. Instead they're fighting to the death.

Mariupol is a core military and political objective. It is the second most important city of Donetsk oblast and one of the last remaining ports on the Sea of Azov. They need to take it for Putin's political goals of taking the entire Donbass region. Militarily, not taking it means they cannot encircle the Ukrainian eastern front. What they did not expect was for Ukrainians to fight to the death.

Kiev actually makes the least sense as it can't connect to any other front and forms a salient that's vulnerable to cutoff, and it's highly unlikely for any pro Russian uprisings to occur there. This seems purely political.

In short: they expected uprisings or surrenders after shock and awe, and instead got fights to the death.


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## Type59

WotTen said:


> Would you find it more believable if they were kept in suburban houses in Italy? Not every dungeon has to look like a medieval dungeon.
> 
> Large scale international trafficking of women for sex is a very real business. I can't believe we are even debating its existence.



Tutle is a bit slow and naive.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506479259866394625
Russia using minorities as cannon fodder.

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## thetutle

Xerxes22 said:


> In the long term I don't think so. Iran needs a hyped up coked up Russia in the long term. Russia being public enemy number one is great for Iran since now Iran can buy whatever military equipment they want from Russia.
> 
> And If the nuclear deal goes to hell even better for Iran and in that case Iran should propose to Russia to move sum of its strategic nuclear arsenal to be based in Iran.
> 
> Iran should go rogue as well. And get married to Russia and the two of them shud go absolutely nuts on the west.


only in your dreams. Russia will never sell you anything that can help you against anyone. Russia is more scared of your nukes than America. America can infiltrate your nuke program and disrupt it. russia cant.

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## OldTwilight

Xerxes22 said:


> In the long term I don't think so. Iran needs a hyped up coked up Russia in the long term. Russia being public enemy number one is great for Iran since now Iran can buy whatever military equipment they want from Russia.
> 
> And If the nuclear deal goes to hell even better for Iran and in that case Iran should propose to Russia to move sum of its strategic nuclear arsenal to be based in Iran.
> 
> Iran should go rogue as well. And get married to Russia and the two of them shud go absolutely nuts on the west.


Russians see Iran as strategic danger ...

from their perspective an armed iran can attack them from south and cut off their access to Caspian sea

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## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Kharkiv is heavily ethnic Russian and they may have expected an uprising from the Russian population in support of the Russian Army. This obviously didn't happen but if it did, Kharkiv would've been a cakewalk and the entire Ukrainian eastern front would've been encircled. Instead they're fighting to the death.
> 
> Mariupol is a core military and political objective. It is the second most important city of Donetsk oblast and one of the last remaining ports on the Sea of Azov. They need to take it for Putin's political goals of taking the entire Donbass region. Militarily, not taking it means they cannot encircle the Ukrainian eastern front. What they did not expect was for Ukrainians to fight to the death.
> 
> Kiev actually makes the least sense as it can't connect to any other front and forms a salient that's vulnerable to cutoff, and it's highly unlikely for any pro Russian uprisings to occur there. This seems purely political.
> 
> In short: they expected uprisings or surrenders after shock and awe, and instead got fights to the death.


Kharkiv - I have already said other than "Historical" value of it, I do not see any value to attack Kharkiv, and you are describing the Historical Value. And Historical Value means nothing in term of Strategic term. As in it does not help the Russian to win the war. It is only strategically important if Russia cannot attack from Belarus. But since they can, that put Kyiv just 150km south of Belarus border, which make taking Kharkiv pointless. 

Mariupol is important, but you don't really need to attack them on day 1. Because Mariupol was locked in by sea of Azov (Russian have Kerch Strait and Crimea) They can pin the defender down like they do with Odesa to pin down the defender without using any troop, so they can take it after they took Kyiv. In fact, if Russia should use troop, they should have used them on Odesa not Mariupol.

Kyiv is THE ONLY objective they should have taken ASAP. Their goal is to demolish the Ukrainian Government and install their own regime, that's what "Demilitarization and Denazification" means, and you cannot do them without taking Kyiv first, because the president was there, and the entire government was there. You need to take them out to install your own government. And you need to do them As Soon As Possible.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506574884658417671


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## jamahir

Vergennes said:


> And there are people believing it,mainly from rogue countries like China or third world countries.



Why do NATO governments propagandists like you use "Oh, that one is a rogue country", "Oh, no this one is a rogue leader" when it is your war-criming and genociding NATO governments that have to be regime-changed for the harmonious future of humanity ?



jhungary said:


> I understand you should not shoot at anything that had written *"Children"* in it, it's one thing you shoot people and people got into cross fire, it's another thing you shoot something that can be easily identify as civilian structure. I mean, bombing that theatre is probably new low. I mean, it's not like you have soldier on the outside of the theatre that shoot inside where you can see who is inside the structure.



From :


> The *Mahmudiyah rape and killings* were war crimes involving the gang-rape and murder of 14-year-old Iraqi child *Abeer Qassim Hamza al-Janabi* and the murder of her family by United States Army soldiers on March 12, 2006. It occurred in the family's house to the southwest of Yusufiyah, a village to the west of the town of Al-Mahmudiyah, Iraq. Other members of al-Janabi's family murdered by Americans included her 34-year-old mother Fakhriyah Taha Muhasen, 45-year-old father Qassim Hamza Raheem, and 6-year-old sister Hadeel Qassim Hamza Al-Janabi.[1] The two remaining survivors of the family, 9-year-old brother Ahmed and 11-year-old brother Mohammed, were at school during the massacre and orphaned by the event.





> On the day of the massacre, Abeer's father Qassim was enjoying time with his family, while his sons were at school.[16] In broad daylight, the four U.S. soldiers walked to the house, not wearing their uniforms, but wearing army-issue long underwear to look like "ninjas",[10] and separated 14 year-old Abeer and her family into two different rooms. Spielman was responsible for grabbing Abeer's 6-year-old sister, who was outside the house with her father, and bringing her inside the house.[17] Green then broke Abeer's mother's arms (likely evidence of a struggle that resulted when she heard her daughter being raped in the other room) and murdered her parents and younger sister, while two other soldiers, Cortez and Barker, raped Abeer.[18] Barker wrote that Cortez pushed Abeer to the floor, lifted her dress, and tore off her underwear while she struggled. According to Cortez, Abeer “kept squirming and trying to keep her legs closed and saying stuff in Arabic,” as he and Barker took turns holding her down and raping her.[19] Cortez testified that Abeer heard the gunshots in the room in which her parents and little sister were being held, causing her to scream and cry even more as she was being violently raped by the men. Green then emerged from the room saying, "I just killed them, all are dead".[20] Green, who later said the crime was "awesome",[21] then raped Abeer and shot her in the head several times. After the massacre, Barker poured petrol on Abeer and the soldiers set fire to the lower part of the girl's body, from her stomach down to her feet. Barker testified that the soldiers gave Spielman their bloodied clothes to burn and that he threw the AK-47 used to murder the family into a canal. They left to "celebrate" their crimes with a meal of chicken wings.[22] Meanwhile, the fire from Abeer's body eventually spread to the rest of the room, and the smoke alerted neighbors, who were among the first to discover the scene.[2] One recalled, "The poor girl, she was so beautiful. She lay there, one leg was stretched and the other bent and her dress was lifted up to her neck."[11] They ran to tell Abu Firas Janabi, Abeer's uncle, that the farmhouse was on fire and that dead bodies could be seen inside the burning building. Janabi and his wife rushed to the farmhouse and doused some of the flames to get inside. Upon witnessing the scene inside, Janabi went to a checkpoint guarded by Iraqi Army soldiers to report the crime. Abeer's 9- and 11-year-old younger brothers, Ahmed and Mohammed, returned from school that afternoon to find smoke billowing from the windows. After going to their uncle's home, they returned to the house only to be traumatized, finding their father shot in the head, mother shot in the chest, 6-year-old sister Hadeel shot in the face, and 14-year-old sister Abeer's remains burning.






jhungary said:


> Fire artillery round and missile without IDing the building is just low. Regardless how much you hated the Ukrainian.



The Russians do ID buildings before firing and that is how they found the shopping mall which was housing rocket launchers.

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## thetutle

If you are interested in the economic situation in russia, I can tell you that red bell peppers in a Moscow supermarket are 350 rubles/kg or $3.37 USD. 

In Croatia, an EU country with 50% higher average salary than russia before the sanctions hit, the same red bell peppers are $2 USD/kg. 

So you can see how difficult life is getting for the people. Most prices are 30% higher. wages maybe 5% higher for those who got a wage increase.

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## SuvarnaTeja

thetutle said:


> she doesn't look like a Russian. black hair, strange facial shape, those earrings. Probably a gypsy stealing stuff. There must be some punishment for stealing.



So she must be a peasant from the Southern Italy


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506579963293708289

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## tower9

Xerxes22 said:


> In the long term I don't think so. Iran needs a hyped up coked up Russia in the long term. Russia being public enemy number one is great for Iran since now Iran can buy whatever military equipment they want from Russia.
> 
> And If the nuclear deal goes to hell even better for Iran and in that case Iran should propose to Russia to move sum of its strategic nuclear arsenal to be based in Iran.
> 
> Iran should go rogue as well. And get married to Russia and the two of them shud go absolutely nuts on the west.


If Israel turns on Russia, then that will swing Russia decisively behind Iran especially if Putin cleanses his regime of the zionist oligarchs. We will see. All bets are off if that happens. I think Israel will play it safe and try to stay neutral.

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## Vergennes

Meanwhile rapes have been reported by Russian soldiers in Ukraine.


This killed russian soldier had condoms on him. His commanders probably promised him free Ukrainian bobs and vagene.



Spoiler: graphic

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## Amliunion

Ukranian Army men Surrendering:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506586476854710277

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## Vergennes

The defense of Mariupol continues. No wonder Russia is hell bent on propaganda against Azov seeing how they are trashing the Russian army














It seems a GRU unit was neutralized

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506575367707975702

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## jamahir

Vergennes said:


> The defense of Mariupol continues. No wonder Russia is hell bent on propaganda against Azov seeing how they are trashing the Russian army



That shows you as a Nazi.  is the one in the female dress below someone you are propagandizing ?



Amliunion said:


> Ukranian Army men Surrendering:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506586476854710277

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## jhungary

jamahir said:


> Why do NATO governments propagandists like you use "Oh, that one is a rogue country", "Oh, no this one is a rogue leader" when it is your war-criming and genociding NATO governments that have to be regime-changed for the harmonious future of humanity ?
> 
> 
> 
> From :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Russians do ID buildings before firing and that is how they found the shopping mall which was housing rocket launchers.


First of all, if you talk about war rape, I think nobody beat the record for Soviet Russian wholesale rape of German women and children after WW2.









The Horrific Mass Rape of German Women at the End of World War II


The greatest mass rape in history — the liberators raped over 2 million women




medium.com





And yes, Russian did ID the building, they IDed that the word "children" is clearly written on both side of the theatre You don't lob shell blindly into residential area, period. Especially not when it was clearly marked children and it was clearly marked as Hospital according to Geneva Convention. I mean, that building was not a field medical station that can be mistaken as a field camp, that was a fully function hospital.

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## Wood

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506479259866394625
> Russia using minorities as cannon fodder.


It explains the report of low morale of Russian troops and their struggle with cold weather. Was strange to me that people who are used to higher latitude than Kyiv are struggling with the winter invasion more than the Ukrainians.

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## RescueRanger

sur said:


> *VERY good read*. Though I haven't done reading all of it yet.
> 
> I like his way of looking at events that we totally under-rate, like, "_Russian missile strikes on what are* de facto NATO bases *in Yavoriv and Zhytomyr_."
> That's exactly what they were.
> 
> Brit PM squeaked "escalation" after first attack on _de facto NATO base_, and there can be no other reason except that *Brit soldiers* may have died (not just ordinary volunteers). Then he went silent. Whichever stage of grief that was, I think 'Depression' stage. Poor guys cannot even grief publicly because that would be admission.
> 
> As well as below *posts by @RescueRanger pointed to a very important movement* on the map. I guestimate: NATO came to Ukraine border,➡️ picked dead or injured,➡️ took them to hospital,➡️ they flew them away. If it were Zelensky's soldiers, they won't be transported out of Ukraine like that. They must be foreigners, *contrary to Ukrainian claim* that all ~35 killed were local Ukrainians & US denying any of theirs killed (indirectly admitting that they were there):
> 
> Only if I could give positive ratings to these 2 posts by RescueRanger.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another good read, the NewsWeek link in following post:


Its a slog now:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506523823394406405

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506600416913592327

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## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> The defense of Mariupol continues. No wonder Russia is hell bent on propaganda against Azov seeing how they are trashing the Russian army
> 
> View attachment 826484
> 
> View attachment 826483
> 
> View attachment 826482
> 
> 
> It seems a GRU unit was neutralized
> 
> View attachment 826485
> 
> View attachment 826486


That's probably the most well equipped Russian Unit I have seen taken out so far, Azart Radios, BGAN Terminals, AS VAL, VSS Vintorez - this was definitely a SF unit that got wiped out.

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## jhungary

sur said:


> *VERY good read*. Though I haven't done reading all of it yet.
> 
> I like his way of looking at events that we totally under-rate, like, "_Russian missile strikes on what are* de facto NATO bases *in Yavoriv and Zhytomyr_."
> That's exactly what they were.
> 
> Brit PM squeaked "escalation" after first attack on _de facto NATO base_, and there can be no other reason except that *Brit soldiers* may have died (not just ordinary volunteers). Then he went silent. Whichever stage of grief that was, I think 'Depression' stage. Poor guys cannot even grief publicly because that would be admission.
> 
> As well as below *posts by @RescueRanger pointed to a very important movement* on the map. I guestimate: NATO came to Ukraine border,➡️ picked dead or injured,➡️ took them to hospital,➡️ they flew them away. If it were Zelensky's soldiers, they won't be transported out of Ukraine like that. They must be foreigners, *contrary to Ukrainian claim* that all ~35 killed were local Ukrainians & US denying any of theirs killed (indirectly admitting that they were there):
> 
> Only if I could give positive ratings to these 2 posts by RescueRanger.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another good read, the NewsWeek link in following post:


Germany and UK have Combat Hospital set up in Poland for Wounded Ukrainian soldier, they have been doing that since 2014.....

If that was a foreigner (Like American or Briton or etc), they probably would not bring them to that Poland hospital, they probably will bring them to Landstuhl in Germany, that was a world class Combat Hospital we used to transfer our battle casualty from Afghanistan, the hospital is in Germany not too far from Poland

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## Wood

RescueRanger said:


> Its a slog now:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506523823394406405


If the Ukrainian troops manage to employ their new equipment from NATO to break the siege at Mariupol, then it would be a big psychological bump for them. But I don't see any reports so far that speculate that this may even be in their agenda

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## Thinker3

jhungary said:


> First of all, if you talk about war rape, I think nobody beat the record for Soviet Russian wholesale rape of German women and children after WW2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Horrific Mass Rape of German Women at the End of World War II
> 
> 
> The greatest mass rape in history — the liberators raped over 2 million women
> 
> 
> 
> 
> medium.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yes, Russian did ID the building, they IDed that the word "children" is clearly written on both side of the theatre You don't lob shell blindly into residential area, period. Especially not when it was clearly marked children and it was clearly marked as Hospital according to Geneva Convention. I mean, that building was not a field medical station that can be mistaken as a field camp, that was a fully function hospital.


You are only telling half part, both Allied and Russian troops committed mass rapes in Germany.

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## Amliunion

🇩🇪❗German Chancellor Olaf Scholz ruled out the possibility of involving NATO in the events in Ukraine, including sending peacekeepers or creating a no-fly zone.

"Of course, I hear the voices of those who demand a no-fly zone or a NATO peacekeeping force in Ukraine. No matter how hard it may be, we will not go for it," the chancellor said, speaking in the Bundestag.

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## Vergennes



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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506576435171008514

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## jhungary

Thinker3 said:


> You are only telling half part, both Allied and Russian troops committed mass rapes in Germany.


Well, 2 millions rape alone in Berlin (Only Soviet Union was in Berlin) that's honestly quite hard to beat. especially not too many allied Unit got to get inside Germany..

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## RescueRanger

Amliunion said:


> And then the Crib why Civilians Infrastructure is attacked:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506557612900315137


"Block of flats"... They use residential buildings and then complain when they get hit, this is the problem with urban warfare.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506608959783849986
Let's see how this pans out!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506610572179263493

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## Thinker3

jhungary said:


> Well, 2 millions rape alone in Berlin (Only Soviet Union was in Berlin) that's honestly quite hard to beat. especially not too many allied Unit got to get inside Germany..


Not too many troops got inside Germany? And 2 million rapes only in Berlin? Both are wrong, kindly read some unbiased history, Allied forces went deep inside Germany and there was a race between Allies and Soviets of who will get to Berlin first, Allies also committed mass rapes in areas they captured. It is a documented fact which Allies did their best to censor. 
Not only in Germany in Japan also, US and Australian troops committed mass rapes and forced women into prostitution. There is a documented incident happened in japan in which Australian troops raped women in a hospital both the patients and staff.

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## Ali_Baba

Putin loses his 15TH top commander as Ukraine continues to take out elite troops: Colonel is latest to die as Russia suffers worst loss of military leaders since World War Two​








Putin loses fifth colonel, 15th top commander since invading Ukraine


Colonel Alexei Sharov became the latest Russian commander to die in what has become the country's biggest loss of military leaders since World War II.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## Wood

Amliunion said:


> Let's see how this pans out!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506610572179263493


This is interesting. Where can Europeans buy Rubles from? Putin hopes to achieve mutual destruction before Europe can escape the clutches of Russia.


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## dBSPL

The video of the Russian Navy's attack on Ukrainian infrastructures with Kalibr cruise missiles was shared for the first time.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506555197044183041

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## Ich

jhungary said:


> Well, 2 millions rape alone in Berlin (Only Soviet Union was in Berlin) that's honestly quite hard to beat. especially not too many allied Unit got to get inside Germany..


Please, do not lie to yourself.

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## Paul2

Wood said:


> It explains the report of low morality of Russian troops and their struggle with cold weather. Was strange to me that people who are used to higher latitude than Kyiv are struggling with the winter invasion more than the Ukrainians.



Very simple, happens in China as well.

Troops go for a "1 week drill" in another climate zone, of course without appropriate kit, then they got stuck there for 1m+ due to logistics.

Most of Russian military genuinely believed they were going for a drill, and prepared accordingly.

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## Amliunion

Wood said:


> This is interesting. Where can Europeans buy Rubles from? Putin hopes to achieve mutual destruction before Europe can escape the clutches of Russia.



Buying Rubles is europes (those who import) problem now, as their economy stands on russian gas.

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## jamal18

Current. Fighting stil continuing in Mariupol. Ukrainian forces shelling.


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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506569731704250375The US-based global companies leaving Russia started to decide to increase their investments in Turkey one by one.

***

>Transferring strategic capabilities to Turkey, especially Ukrainian engine and aerospace companies, integrating some industrial areas of Ukraine with Turkey
>To be among the top 3 trading partners of Russia
>With the closure of Russia operations, the shift of US-based companies to Turkey
>Due to the developed infrastructure and the European blockade on Russia, the importance of the middle corridor in China's trade with Europe will increase.
>Relations with Israel, Armenia, UAE and Greece regaining positive momentum
>Rapid recovery in Turkey-EU relations

More or less, Turkey has gained a significant booster in achieving these goals by remaining neutral in the Ukraine-Russia war.

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## DF41

https://realrawnews.com/2022/02/putin-tells-trump-were-burning-the-trash-biolaboratories-destroyed/

The "other side" story of the Russia-Ukraine War.

This is probably the Truth and that's the reason why USA wants to distance itself and NOT send it Troops to Ukraine 😳😳😳
👇👇👇

Russian troops destroyed 13 bioweapons labs across Ukraine, some of them underground, so they had to carry out several explosions to destroy them.

Putin has information that the West - the US Institute of Health, the French Institute of Health and the German Center for Infection Research - has poured billions of dollars from those countries' taxpayers into Ukraine to develop biological weapons under the guise of research grants. Putin claimed he had evidence that he would eventually make public "when the world wants to listen to him."

According to Putin, Zelensky knew about the labs and received kickbacks in exchange for allowing them to operate in secret and without official oversight.
Putin said he gave Zelensky many warnings about dismantling the labs back in February 2020 and warned he would do it himself if Zelensky did not comply. He acknowledged the collateral damage that only Zelensky is to blame for endangering the people of Ukraine,” our source said.

Putin also named Israel. He said the Israeli Ministry of Health and Mossad had launched a biolab on Ukraine's Serpent Island, located in the Black Sea, near the Danube Delta, with an important role in delimiting Ukrainian territorial waters.

The biolab on Serpent Island was involved in research into a combat type of airborne rabies that, if sprayed, could devastate the Earth with nearly 100% mortality.

“Putin assured that he had taken precautions to ensure that all pathogens were hit and effective enough to render them inert. He did not say if thermobaric munitions were used, but that seems like a likely possibility,” our source said.

We don't hit cities. If this were the case, then more than one building in Kyiv would be damaged and there would be no electricity, no water, nothing. We burn garbage.
So now we know what Putin is doing in Ukraine: SAVE HUMANITY. Literally.

Source: https://realrawnews.com/2022/02/putin-tells-trump-were-burning-the-trash-biolaboratories-destroyed/

☝️Interesting!!!Forwarded as received.

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## jamahir

jhungary said:


> And yes, Russian did ID the building, they IDed that the word "children" is clearly written on both side of the theatre You don't lob shell blindly into residential area, period. Especially not when it was clearly marked children and it was clearly marked as Hospital according to Geneva Convention. I mean, that building was not a field medical station that can be mistaken as a field camp, that was a fully function hospital.



1. When your puppet Ukranian military fires rocketes and artillery from residential areas and school grounds, hosts military hostels for foreign fighters in residential buildings and keeps military headquarters in former hospitals you should not expect those items to be treated warmly by the Russians.

2. You, an American military person, are talking about international peaceful conduct conventions ?  

3. You mention hospital and there was this :


> Wed 2 Apr 2003 14.14 BST
> 
> US aircraft hit a Red Crescent maternity hospital in Baghdad, the city's trade fair, and other civilian buildings today, killing several people and wounding at least 25, hospital sources and a Reuters witness said.
> 
> The attacks occurred at 9.30am (0630 BST) and caught motorists by surprise as they ventured out during a lull in the bombing. At least five cars were crushed and their drivers burned to death inside, Reuters correspondent Samia Nakhoul said.
> 
> Patients and at least three doctors and nurses working at the hospital were among those wounded.
> The missiles obliterated wings of Baghdad's trade fair building, which lies next to a government security office that was apparently missed in the bombings.
> Advertisement
> 
> Iraq's information minister, Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf, told a news conference that overnight bombings by US-led forces killed 24 civilians and injured 186 across the country. In Baghdad, he said, 10 civilians had been killed and 90 wounded.
> 
> "No matter how many Iraqi civilians they kill, this will make us even stronger and even more determined to repel the invasion and to defeat them," Mr Sahaf said.


And this :


> *Air Raid Shelter, Amiriyah, Iraq (February 13, 1991)*
> 
> The U.S. purposefully targeted an air raid shelter near the Baghdad airport with two 2,000-pound laser-guided bombs, which punched through 10 feet of concrete and killed at least 408 Iraqi civilians. A BBC journalist reported that “we saw the charred and mutilated remains. … They were piled onto the back of a truck; many were barely recognizable as human.” Meanwhile, Army Lt. Gen. Thomas Kelly of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff said: “We are chagrined if [civilian] people were hurt, but the only information we have about people being hurt is coming out of the controlled press in Baghdad.” Another U.S. general claimed the shelter was “an active command-and-control structure,” while anonymous officials said military trucks and limousines for Iraq’s senior leadership had been seen at the building.
> 
> In his 1995 CNN interview, Hussein Kamel said, “There was no leadership there. There was a transmission apparatus for the Iraqi intelligence, but the allies had the ability to monitor that apparatus and knew that it was not important.” The Iraqi blogger Riverbend later wrote that several years after the attack, she went to the shelter and met a “small, slight woman” who now lived in the shelter and gave visitors unofficial tours. Eight of her nine children had been killed in the bombing.






Thinker3 said:


> You are only telling half part, both Allied and Russian troops committed mass rapes in Germany.



Mr. Jhungary will not listen. He is actually a legendary army man or a military intelligence man depending on his mood that day on PDF.



DF41 said:


> The biolab on Serpent Island was involved in research into a combat type of airborne rabies that, if sprayed, could devastate the Earth with nearly 100% mortality.



That is serious. I believe rabies has no cure.

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## Wood

Paul2 said:


> Very simple, happens in China as well.
> 
> Troops go for a "1 week drill" in another climate zone, of course without appropriate kit, then they got stuck there for 1m+ due to logistics.
> 
> Most of Russian military genuinely believed they were going for a drill, and prepared accordingly.


With the temperatures improving in April, the Russians may have a better morale in Ukraine. Think Kyiv is in Montreal latitude, so April should be significantly better.

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## Musings

Thinker3 said:


> Not too many troops got inside Germany? And 2 million rapes only in Berlin? Both are wrong, kindly read some unbiased history, Allied forces went deep inside Germany and there was a race between Allies and Soviets of who will get to Berlin first, Allies also committed mass rapes in areas they captured. It is a documented fact which Allies did their best to censor.
> Not only in Germany in Japan also, US and Australian troops committed mass rapes and forced women into prostitution. There is a documented incident happened in japan in which Australian troops raped women in a hospital both the patients and staff.


The problem you have is the west clearly dominate the media circus. They make out the boogeyman to be 10 times worse than what is factual of proved by evidence. Its quite disgraceful how the truth is demolished. "Finding condoms" on soldiers is something i dont believe - but retards will take it as gospel. Sky and Fox news is used as a source. 
Im no fan of Putin and think he is liable personally for a lot of misdemeanors and misadventures in Ukraine. He should have the full wrath of international law thrown at him because 1000s of white blue eyed lives have been lost. 
Now let something else sink in - Iraq - millions died. A war built on lies and illegal law - who punished Blair and Bush? Why was that treated differently? Brown million people dying isnt worth the stink?
Now back to this war - Russians soldiers no angels - but dont believe the exaggerated bullshit propagated by so called "professionals" on here.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506561538441859072


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506500055502573573

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## mmr

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506576435171008514


Does it mean in long term less train from china to Europe? 

Seems turkey will become ever more important strategically for Europe


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506595914047279110

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## mmr

Wood said:


> This is interesting. Where can Europeans buy Rubles from? Putin hopes to achieve mutual destruction before Europe can escape the clutches of Russia.


lol putler said russia wont pay bond in dollar but in rubles.

but he did paid in dollar


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## dBSPL

mmr said:


> Does it mean in long term less train from china to Europe?
> 
> Seems turkey will become ever more important strategically for Europe


The middle corridor train route from Baku to London is ready. Train logistic activities between Turkey, Iran and Pakistan are gaining momentum again. China can use the middle corridor as effectively as possible in a few years.

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## dBSPL

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506595914047279110


The economic value of ADS losses alone is over (probably) $2 billion. On the inventory scale, it is almost more than the total air defense systems of a medium-sized country. (And the most important of all is to have lost a couple battalions of soldiers in one of the most valuable personnel classes)


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## RescueRanger

I don't see this war ending anytime soon


Wood said:


> If the Ukrainian troops manage to employ their new equipment from NATO to break the siege at Mariupol, then it would be a big psychological bump for them. But I don't see any reports so far that speculate that this may even be in their agenda


Russians are starting to rely on stand off weapons, which means another Grozny / Syria style scenario.

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## Wood

The Purges in Putin’s Shrinking Inner Circle


The frustrated Russian leader has punished officials for misjudging the invasion of Ukraine. But ordinary citizens remain in the dark.




www.newyorker.com


----------



## Amliunion

We will fight (supply weapons) Russia till the last standing Ukrainian:



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506629376800169985


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506632128557113353

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506634758029254665


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## SuvarnaTeja

Amliunion said:


> We will fight (supply weapons) Russia till the last standing Ukrainian:
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506629376800169985



It is a very clever move.

Why get yourself dirty by getting into the clogged drainage when you can pay someone to do your dirty work?

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## gambit

jhungary said:


> ...I don't know about *Airborne Artillery*.


It is US/NATO label as how the Soviets uses airpower. Imagine Soviet airpower consists mostly of AC-130s with the Soviet Army about 24-48 hrs behind, hence 'Airborne Artillery'. It is a rather limited perspective of airpower.

Soviet jets are known to be less technologically sophisticated than Western jets. Part of that is access to technology and part from doctrine. Being less technologically sophisticated allows the jet to be closer to the front line operating from austere airfields almost close to what helos use, and ease of maintenance by -- shall we say kindly -- less educated/trained troops. When I was active duty, it took a long time for the DoD to declassify some materials gained from our brief examination of the MIG-25 defected by Viktor Belenko, and our squadron had a chance to see some of that material as part of a motivational tour. Our F-15s were using solid state electronics but their MIG-25s had vacuum tubes. The popular defense is that tubes are immune from EMP which our engineers laughed at. Steel is easier to find than composites, so if a MIG-25, and others of that series, is damaged, steel from tanks or APCs can be used to patch up the body and even repair some critical airframe sub-structures, if a competent welder is available.

So if we extrapolate this upward, it is reasonable to assume that the Soviets had this limited perspective of its airpower and developed a war time doctrine appropriately. Then forward to today, it seems the VKS deviated little from that perspective and combat doctrine, hence, not much air presence except for where Russian ground troops are fighting, and even then, the VKS is not that impressive compared against the perception that we developed. It seems we continually overestimate the VKS. Maybe it is an intellectual 'better safe than sorry' safety margin on our part.



jhungary said:


> But I can tell you one thing that I know and Gen Marks did not say.
> 
> The battleplan have me scratching my head for quite some time. I mean, I get why they attack Kyiv, and why they want to take Mariupol and Odesa, but I cannot figure out why they start a front with Kharkiv? The entire issue with Kharkiv is an outliner to me, the only reason I can think of for them to take it is for its historical significance. But then it would not help the main effort one bit.
> 
> Strategically, the *breaking down into 2 or 3 routes is a mistake*, Russian own the ocean, and troop in Crimea would mean you would have already pin down the Defender inside Mariupol and Odesa, then why attack them? I mean, if you look at it, they did not attack Odesa but they manage to pin the defender in place, but with Mariupol, especially with the ground troop near the separatist region, You really don't need to go toe to toe on them, and now, you don't just pin their troop, you pin down yours too.
> 
> That is the reason for me to think, who is actually in charge of the battlefield here, because the decision that was made here does not make sense at all. If you want to take Kyiv, you go heavy on Kyiv, you don't jerk around in other place and dilute your power. I mean, if there is an overall objective, and an overall commander to oversee the overall objective, I don''t think this is going to happen like this.


So if we go by what you are saying on the ground, then no wonder the VKS commander is sitting on his butt. I think the local air commander is doing the best he can, but if the ground commander is unable to accomplish his goals for any reason, from enemy resistance to weather, then the air commander will be equally shorted on what he is allowed to do. The more I look at this, the more it is likely the VKS is staying with Soviet air doctrine. I somewhat feel a little sorry for the guy as I bet he is being pulled three different directions.

If the Russian Army is going to lay siege on the major cities...









The Air Force Has Some Thinking to Do: Airpower and the Future Urban Battlefield - Modern War Institute


The targets . . . just keep getting smaller: individuals, extremists, terrorists, the architects of chaos who disappear in the urban vomit that is the modern city . . . and even with precision, all our options start to look like needles in haystacks. — Williamson Murray, “Operation Iraqi...




mwi.usma.edu





As can be seen by any Google image search of Raqqa, moreover, the employment of airpower in cities has been *accompanied by great destruction.*​​Regardless of function, role, or mission, the application of airpower in cities for strategic effect is tremendously challenging, even with advanced precision weapons and sensors. The Air Force must move beyond tactics, techniques, and procedures (TTPs) to consider broader solutions at the operational and strategic levels because even the best TTPs will not guarantee victory in urban environments.​
Currently, airpower in the urban environment combat situation produce only one outcome: great destruction. There is a limit on the angle of approach for any PGM and usually it is greater than 45 deg to vertical. We can use PGM against a building but if the bomb miss it will hit the next building, so in an urban environment, there are very little misses. But the VKS have limited PGM usage so far. There is a caveat to this. Just because you have a lot of PGM does not mean all your pilots are qual-ed to use them and use effectively. Combat is no training environment. The VKS may have a lot of PGM, but if insufficient jets/pilots are qual-ed to use, might as well be no PGM, then we will see even more great destruction to those besieged cities.

What you said about the dilution of power is interesting because it is not applicable to airpower. Simply put, we ain't around all the time. If the tank stopped in front of you, the power of the tank is still there, you are just lucky it is not running or shooting. But with the airplane, I have to leave when I reach bingo fuel. So yes, the Russians should have gone all out on one city, then the next, then the next. Maybe Kyiv should have been the first, but if the VKS cannot replicate Desert Storm, then the air commander should have been allowed to focus his jets on one target at a time.

Now comes the horrific part. Under the concept of 'airborne artillery', the combined effects of artillery shells approach on one side of a target, then bombs delivered by jets on the other side, anyone/anything inside that building will die. We *WILL* see a humanitarian crisis in each besieged city.


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## dBSPL

Russian armored vehicle was seized by Ukrainian villagers in Sumy region of Ukraine. The villagers laugh, but they may be targets by their own soldiers.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506620936740642827


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## gambit

DF41 said:


> *yawn*
> 
> Bye bye.
> 
> I was going to block you but hold off being tolerant of your views.
> 
> Not anymore


As if you are important enough that we would ache from wondering if you read our comments. Clue for you, buddy, whether you read our comments or not, the silent readers out there will. And their attention are far more important than yours.

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## dBSPL

sur said:


> I hope people did managed to get some Rubles at least.
> It may be next bitcoin
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506620735712002049


To be exact, he says, countries that are not have friendly approach to Russia will have to do their energy purchases with Ruble. Putin is not talking about indexing all its energy exports to Ruble. They are trying to gain leverage against countries that impose economic sanctions on Russia.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506636307430354954

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506632128557113353



Ukrainian police has resumed operations in Irpen,meaning much of the areas has been cleared of putin's thugs.

Some goodies left behind by the Russians.









F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506636307430354954



While Russia claims shooting down more TB2 than Ukraine actually has without providing any evidence (only one visually confirmed as lost),they are surely hitting the Russians hard. Keep in mind those footages aren't official releases but leaks,meaning Ukraine doesn't show every footages of strikes.

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## RescueRanger

sur said:


> I hope people did managed to get some Rubles at least.
> It may be next bitcoin
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506620735712002049


I’ve got my hands on some rubles Cacha Money changer zindabad 😂


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506625258354266113

And Germany decided to stop Russian gas and oil. (In Germany, especially the iron and steel industry will suffer from this)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506561229749428230


----------



## jamahir

gambit said:


> Our F-15s were using solid state electronics but their MIG-25s had vacuum tubes. The popular defense is that tubes are immune from EMP which our engineers laughed at.



Your engineers who laughed then should now listen to your own NASA which is going back to the idea of vacuum tube electronics except that the transistor is miniaturized :


> While semiconductors replaced vacuum tubes as the go-to way to conduct electrical current in our gadgets decades ago, scientists are looking to bring them back for computers used in space. The fact that semiconductors are cheaper and easier to build made them a good replacement, but since vacuum tubes stand up better to radiation, researchers at NASA's Ames Research Center and the Korean National Nanofab Center have created a tiny version designed for the harsh conditions in space. The prototype is called a vacuum channel transistor, can be incorporated into a circuit, and was built using the same process used for silicon semiconductors.
> 
> Right now the 150 nanometer-long device can operate at under 10 volts, but researchers believe that this number can be cut down to just 1 volt over time. It's also very fast, operating at frequencies of up to 0.46 terahertz — quite a bit faster than standard silicon transistors. These two factors are good news for NASA, which, according to engineer Meyya Meyyappan, can spend up to a few years making a computer radiation proof — "otherwise the computer you put in the space shuttle or the space station basically will get zapped and stop working." Unfortunately, as of now there's no word on when the tubes might make their way into NASA's computers.


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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506634252473049095Finally, they learned of censoring the flight and engagement datas.

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## Amliunion

SuvarnaTeja said:


> It is a very clever move.
> 
> Why get yourself dirty by getting into the clogged drainage when you can pay someone to do your dirty work?



In the meantime, Millions became Refugees, Cities turned into ashes. Ukranie paying dear price for this US Proxy War against Russia.

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## Microsoft

jhungary said:


> Dude, you are fighting a war in Ukraine. Where does the Ukrainian Civilian supposed to go? Go to Russia?
> 
> You are fighting where people were living. Just because there is a war on does not mean they suddenly ceased to exist.....



Why not go to Russia? At least they won't be used as human shields there and there is no war.
It also means the Ukrainian military shouldn't use them as human shields!

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## Wood

As per the interview that New Yorker publication has had with an investigative journalist in Russia, Putin 

1) continues to believe that the invasion plan was correct both strategically and militarily.
2) is upset that the funds that were supposed to be spent on building pro-Kremlin support in Ukraine has been wasted to naught.
3) is alarmed that Americans have so much intelligence gathering capability in Russia
4) only has 3 or 4 people left in his inner circle


----------



## SuvarnaTeja

Amliunion said:


> *EUROPEAN GAS SURGES 34% AS PUTIN SEEKS PAYMENTS IN RUBLES.



If true, This will be a game changer. EU will be forced to trade with Russia to get their share of Rubles to buy Russia gas.


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## Vergennes

Map according to southfront (russians)


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506638010711953411

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506638745587658758

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506213128417161217

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## Wood

SuvarnaTeja said:


> If true, This will be a game changer. EU will be forced to trade with Russia to get their share of Rubles to buy Russia gas.


The value of Ruble will appreciate in the short term; like a candle flame that temporarily roars before it burns out.


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506643858188345361


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## Meengla

Microsoft said:


> Why not go to Russia? At least they won't be used as human shields there and there is no war.
> It also means the *Ukrainian military shouldn't use them as human shields!*



Yes.
Colonel Macgregor said several days ago that Ukrainians have been using civilians as human shields. Mariupol is still not taken because Ukrainian military is using civilians as human shields. The moment most/all civilians leave that city it will be truly ground to dust with weapons like hyperbaric bombs. An exit path is granted to not just the civilians but also the Ukrainian army with their weapons but not taken. Using civilians as human shields is cruel and cowardly!

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506631666223177740


----------



## SuvarnaTeja

Amliunion said:


> In the meantime, Millions became Refugees, Cities turned into ashes. Ukranie paying dear price for this US Proxy War against Russia.



Slaves are expendable.

British ruled millions of Indians with few thousand white officers as they had enough Indians who were willing to become their foot soldiers to control the Indian masses.

British and other White Colonial powers employed this strategy everywhere they went and colonized.

NATO is modern colonial Super Power. It is employing the same tactics.

NATO has found enough Ukrainian Slavics who are willing to sell their souls to fight the fellow Russian slavics.

NATO could not care less on how many slavics die on either side as long as their White Blue Eyed Blonde soldiers are safe.

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506213128417161217


I found this particularly insulting because it shows the Mongols and all the Asian tribes of the past as somehow subhuman warmongering barbarians.

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## Paul2

dBSPL said:


> The economic value of ADS losses alone is over (probably) $2 billion. On the inventory scale, it is almost more than the total air defense systems of a medium-sized country. (And the most important of all is to have lost a couple battalions of soldiers in one of the most valuable personnel classes)



It is less than that. Remember, Russian export prices are many times their own cost.

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## SuvarnaTeja

Wood said:


> The value of Ruble will appreciate in the short term; like a candle flame that temporarily roars before it burns out.



The flame will continue to burn as long as China survives.

US will not take on China until Russia dies and China will not allow Russia to die as it knows very well that if Russia dies, China will be next to die.










China says Russia CANNOT be expelled from G20


Beijing described Moscow as an 'important member' of the G20 in the latest sign of China providing a level of diplomatic protection to Russia, which is isolated over its invasion of Ukraine.




www.dailymail.co.uk





China says Russia CANNOT be expelled from G20 – after US suggested they should be excluded - in latest sign of diplomatic protection by Beijing​
*China described Russia as an 'important member' of the G20 group today*
*US raised the prospect of excluding Russia from G20 due to invasion of Ukraine*
*Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin have declared a relationship of 'no limits'*
By RACHAEL BUNYAN FOR MAILONLINE and WIRES

PUBLISHED: 11:25 GMT, 23 March 2022 | UPDATED: 12:28 GMT, 23 March 2022

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## Basel

F-22Raptor said:


> At the rate Russia is losing armor, I don't know how the Russian military can continue to be combat effective in a month.



They need to change tactics and also deploy UCAVs, ATGMs like HJ-12s, loots of RPGs and possibly MANPADS with better communications between troops.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506646337856675842

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506646339735760899

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506648370567389184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506648371502759936

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## OldTwilight

RescueRanger said:


> I don't see this war ending anytime soon
> 
> Russians are starting to rely on stand off weapons, which means another Grozny / Syria style scenario.


just like American

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506653431729205251


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## dBSPL

RescueRanger said:


> I found this particularly insulting because it shows the Mongols and all the Asian tribes of the past as somehow subhuman warmongering barbarians.


The geography stretching from the Asian steppes to today's Ukraine has witnessed the domination struggle of east Slavs, Proto-Russians, Prototurks, Turkic and Turko-Mongolic elements. The history of this region is also one of the main factors shaping the political order of modern Europe. In the illustration, Putin is seen wearing an AltinOrda Khanate helmet and is depicted with Turkic-Mongolic features.

A typical manifestation of a truly racist worldview.

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## oberschlesier

SuvarnaTeja said:


> Slaves are expendable.
> 
> British ruled millions of Indians with few thousand white officers as they had enough Indians who were willing to become their foot soldiers to control the Indian masses.
> 
> British and other White Colonial powers employed this strategy everywhere they went and colonized.
> 
> NATO is modern colonial Super Power. It is employing the same tactics.
> 
> NATO has found enough Ukrainian Slavics who are willing to sell their souls to fight the fellow Russian slavics.
> 
> NATO could not care less on how many slavics die on either side as long as their White Blue Eyed Blonde soldiers are safe.


You are really smoking some heavy stuff.

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## dBSPL

20 Bayraktar TB2s have been downed so far. All visual evidence can be seen in the photo.

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## sur

Just by the way of a movie "*Inside Man*", one can try to explain the oft repeated rhetoric: "*How can there be Nazis in Ukraine when their president Zelensky is a Jew himself?*"

The banker was *a Jew but a Nazi collaborator *at the same time.
Movie also mentions that half of Fortune 500 have Nazi roots.












Now one may say it's just a movie.
True, but it depicts reality.
















Flashy NATO film honors Baltic Nazi collaborators who murdered Jews in Holocaust - The Grayzone


NATO lionized the Forest Brothers, Baltic former Waffen SS fighters who voluntarily collaborated with the Nazis, as anti-communist heroes in a flashy film.




thegrayzone.com

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## oberschlesier

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506643858188345361


This is not True, Gas prices already increased by 500%, Rubel became a reserve currency and everybody already had frozen in Europe, when it`s +17 C

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## gambit

jamahir said:


> Your engineers who laughed then should now listen to your own NASA which is going back to the idea of vacuum tube electronics except that the transistor is miniaturized :


Not everything NASA use is applicable to everyone else. This kind of 'reasoning' is why I do not take you seriously.

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## PakFactor

RescueRanger said:


> I found this particularly insulting because it shows the Mongols and all the Asian tribes of the past as somehow subhuman warmongering barbarians.



Don't be insulted, this is the time to use these types of news pieces to show the Russians a different path in creating a new alignment and to let the Russians know they were never accepted as part of the West. We need to play it smart grab Russia and pump it so we can get arms and create a multi-polar world. Often times a wounded enemy is more dangerous when used to your advantage.

I'm actually enjoying all this, if we play our cards right it'll be good for us.

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## Amliunion

oberschlesier said:


> This is not True, Gas prices already increased by 500%, Rubel became a reserve currency and everybody already had frozen in Europe, when it`s +17 C



Whatever helps you to sleep better.


----------



## oberschlesier

Amliunion said:


> Whatever helps you to sleep better.


Well, you know. I`m like in Europe and did not see a lot of price change. Again you are writing about something you have no clue about. I`m not writing about the situation in India, as I don`t how it`s really is.


----------



## Amliunion

oberschlesier said:


> Well, you know. I`m like in Europe and did not see a lot of price change. Again you are writing about something you have no clue about.



The source I quoted is from France, Part of EU. Counter what I've posted with Fact, instead of Rant.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506655399960793092

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## jamahir

gambit said:


> Not everything NASA use is applicable to everyone else. This kind of 'reasoning' is why I do not take you seriously.



So why can't those modern vacuum channel transistors not be used in regular computers ?


----------



## oberschlesier

Amliunion said:


> Counter what I've posted with Fact, instead of Rant.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506655399960793092


This has nothing to do with Gas.


----------



## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> The geography stretching from the Asian steppes to today's Ukraine has witnessed the domination struggle of east Slavs, Proto-Russians, Prototurks, Turkic and Turko-Mongolic elements. The history of this region is also one of the main factors shaping the political order of modern Europe. In the illustration, Putin is seen wearing an AltinOrda Khanate helmet and is depicted with Turkic-Mongolic features.
> 
> A typical manifestation of a truly racist worldview.


 Couldn't have said it better myself. Sometimes their mask falls off.

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## Amliunion

oberschlesier said:


> This has nothing to do with Gas.



This Twitter account is from Paris, France 🇪🇺. I am asking you to counter what he says with Facts, not Rant:



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506643858188345361


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506659388492337154

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## Meengla

dBSPL said:


> The geography stretching from the Asian steppes to today's Ukraine has witnessed the domination struggle of east Slavs, Proto-Russians, Prototurks, Turkic and Turko-Mongolic elements. The history of this region is also one of the main factors shaping the political order of modern Europe. In the illustration, Putin is seen wearing an AltinOrda Khanate helmet and is depicted with Turkic-Mongolic features.
> 
> A typical manifestation of a truly racist worldview.



So what's new?? When Germany was opposing the Iraq war of 2003 they were called 'the Huns'. And if today the Scandinavian countries don't follow a certain policy about this conflict then they would be called, perhaps, names like 'Viking Savages'.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506660679398342657

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## PakFactor

dBSPL said:


> The geography stretching from the Asian steppes to today's Ukraine has witnessed the domination struggle of east Slavs, Proto-Russians, Prototurks, Turkic and Turko-Mongolic elements. The history of this region is also one of the main factors shaping the political order of modern Europe. In the illustration, Putin is seen wearing an AltinOrda Khanate helmet and is depicted with Turkic-Mongolic features.
> 
> A typical manifestation of a truly racist worldview.



My message to you is the same that I gave @RescueRanger








Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


I found this particularly insulting because it shows the Mongols and all the Asian tribes of the past as somehow subhuman warmongering barbarians. The geography stretching from the Asian steppes to today's Ukraine has witnessed the domination struggle of east Slavs, Proto-Russians, Prototurks...



defence.pk





This should also be seen as a message to the Turks as well who are aspiring to be part of EU, and as to why it will never happen. Europeans have a inherit racist mentality and same with American's you just have to scratch it of some lightly some heavily to really see them for what they are, along with being racist and superiority complex which I can't blame them for since they screwed the known world royally. (Plus, we Muslims do as well when we look back at our history).

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## Ali_Baba

*Russian defence minister Sergei Shoigu vanishes ‘with heart problems’ *









Russian defence minister Sergei Shoigu vanishes 'with heart problems'


Sergei Shoigu's public appearances have been significantly curtailed in the past week, while his younger daughter Ksenia, 31, was seen posing in Ukrainian colours of blue and yellow.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## oberschlesier

Amliunion said:


> This Twitter account is from Paris, France 🇪🇺. I am asking you to counter what he says with Facts, not Rant:
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506643858188345361


You can write everything on twitter. There was not credible source. The price on the exchange matters and the future price is like in December:




__





ICE Futures and Options


Contracts are for physical delivery through the transfer of rights in respect of Natural Gas at the Title Transfer Facility (TTF) Virtual Trading Point, operated by Gasunie Transport Services (GTS), the transmission system operator in the Netherlands. Delivery is made equally each hour...




www.theice.com





I told you, you are not here, you don`t have a clue. I`m not writing about India, because I don`t know, what is happening there.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506662093239562250


----------



## Wood

Ali_Baba said:


> *Russian defence minister Sergei Shoigu vanishes ‘with heart problems’ *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian defence minister Sergei Shoigu vanishes 'with heart problems'
> 
> 
> Sergei Shoigu's public appearances have been significantly curtailed in the past week, while his younger daughter Ksenia, 31, was seen posing in Ukrainian colours of blue and yellow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk


This guy is supposed to be the closest to Putin and was considered to be his future successor (despite being from an ethnic minority). I don't think that Putin can afford to send him to the Gulag


----------



## Amliunion

oberschlesier said:


> You can write everything on twitter. There was not credible source. The price on the exchange matters and the future price is like in December:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ICE Futures and Options
> 
> 
> Contracts are for physical delivery through the transfer of rights in respect of Natural Gas at the Title Transfer Facility (TTF) Virtual Trading Point, operated by Gasunie Transport Services (GTS), the transmission system operator in the Netherlands. Delivery is made equally each hour...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theice.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I told you, you are not here, you don`t have a clue. I`m not writing about India, because I don`t know, what is happening there.


This thread mainly have Twitter Sources.


I have posted what's been reported by Print Media.



> Any supply disruptions as a result of changing rules would worsen Europe’s energy crisis, with the news sending benchmark gas prices rallying more than 30%.











Putin Wants Hostile States to Pay Rubles for Gas, Interfax Says


Russia plans to demand ruble payments for natural gas purchases from European nations, deepening its standoff with the west and potentially aggravating Europe’s worst energy crunch since the 1970s.




www.bloomberg.com


----------



## F-22Raptor

Ali_Baba said:


> *Russian defence minister Sergei Shoigu vanishes ‘with heart problems’ *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian defence minister Sergei Shoigu vanishes 'with heart problems'
> 
> 
> Sergei Shoigu's public appearances have been significantly curtailed in the past week, while his younger daughter Ksenia, 31, was seen posing in Ukrainian colours of blue and yellow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk



I'd be having heart problems too after seeing the performance of the Russian military.

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## Gripen9



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## Wood

Russian Olympians face backlash over Putin rally


Russian Olympic athletes who participated in a rally supporting President Vladimir Putin and the invasion of Ukraine are facing a backlash, with one losing a sponsorship deal and facing a disciplinary investigation.




www.espn.com


----------



## Vergennes

Ali_Baba said:


> *Russian defence minister Sergei Shoigu vanishes ‘with heart problems’ *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian defence minister Sergei Shoigu vanishes 'with heart problems'
> 
> 
> Sergei Shoigu's public appearances have been significantly curtailed in the past week, while his younger daughter Ksenia, 31, was seen posing in Ukrainian colours of blue and yellow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk

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## -=virus=-

F-22Raptor said:


> I'd be having heart problems too after seeing the performance of the Russian military.


the US didn't do too great in Iraq or A-stan either.

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> I'd be having heart problems too after seeing the performance of the Russian military.



"Operation is going according to plans,Kremlin said so I trust them!". "The real russian army is still in Russia waiting for NATO,Russians only sent conscripts and old stuff to Ukraine!!".

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## Rafi

thetutle said:


> Yeah they are lured to Germany with promises of well paid jobs. Yeah. prostitution is well paid job. If you don't like it you go and wash dishes or work at McDonalds.
> 
> Anyway this is just to dispel the myth that someone is kidnapping ukrnains and forcing them into prostitution. This is just nonsense, europe has police. believe it or not.
> 
> I challenge anyone to kidnap someone or buy a person in europe and get away with it. This is fairytale stuff.



You cannot be this dense, ok they are not being trafficked, they are being taken to fairly land where there are milk and cookies, and the mafia don't exist.

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## Vergennes

Even the elderly are having fun with equipments the russians leave behind


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506238235948855300
Someone even left behind his chapka


----------



## oberschlesier

Amliunion said:


> This thread mainly have Twitter Sources.
> 
> 
> I have posted what's been reported by Print Media.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin Wants Hostile States to Pay Rubles for Gas, Interfax Says
> 
> 
> Russia plans to demand ruble payments for natural gas purchases from European nations, deepening its standoff with the west and potentially aggravating Europe’s worst energy crunch since the 1970s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bloomberg.com


Most twitter source as least have some photographic evidence, or link to another more/less "credible" source. It would nice to know where did they take those 30% from, cheap sensation. Payment in roubles won`t happen anyway.


----------



## Wood



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## oberschlesier

Vergennes said:


> "Operation is going according to plans,Kremlin said so I trust them!". "The real russian army is still in Russia waiting for NATO,Russians only sent conscripts and old stuff to Ukraine!!".


You are absolutely right. It`s a huge deception manouver planned by Russia. The real army is going to invade Baltics, Poland and Romania destroy the EU, cripple NATO and make US go back to America. After this everybody will be happy, use the rouble as a currency and drive Lada Kalina.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506666387892314114

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## Wood




----------



## Amliunion

oberschlesier said:


> Most twitter source as least have some photographic evidence, or link to another more/less "credible" source. It would nice to know where did they take those 30% from, cheap sensation. *Payment in roubles won`t happen anyway*.



Photos can lie.  Russia has given a week's time. We'll see what happens.


----------



## jhungary

Ich said:


> Please, do not lie to yourself.


Well, I don't know man.

at least 65 % of fighting inside Germany is fought by Soviet Troop, the US stepped its campaign over the Rhine river, with selective unit going into Germany

NGO figure tagged US troop rape to 11040, even if you magnified it by 10 times, that's still into hundred thousand level. UK and France have similar amount of rape case reported by respective reporting

I am not saying Rape during war does not exist in the west, but there are no widespread and well known wholesale rape reported as in the Soviet Occupation zone. 

And was I lying to myself??


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506666830924066823
NATO estimates 40,000 Russian casualties to date

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506640285601837063
Kamil is always the optimist.


----------



## jhungary

Microsoft said:


> Why not go to Russia? At least they won't be used as human shields there and there is no war.
> It also means the Ukrainian military shouldn't use them as human shields!


lol, if they are willing to go to Russia, there will not be a war to begin with....There is no war in Russia BECAUSE Russia invaded Ukraine, not the other way around...It's like you keep saying "Stop hitting yourself" when you are the one who move someone hand and smack that someone on their face.....






And as I said, it's not about using them as a shield. It's about you encroach their territories. Again, where do you suppose the Civilian to go? When Russia do not really care where their shell and missile is going to land.

Think about it this way, there are 3 confirmed attack on Afghan Hospital by US Air Strike during the entire 20 years war in Afghanistan, according to WHO, there are more than 40 in just 4 week of war in Ukraine......It's not about whether or not Ukrainian uses civilian as human shield, when you are seen to be systemically target non-military structure.









At Least 43 Hospitals And Health Facilities Attacked In Ukraine, Says WHO | The Daily Wire







www.dailywire.com


----------



## oberschlesier

Amliunion said:


> Photos can lie.  Russia has given a week's time. We'll see what happens.


Photos are more difficult to fake, than text.

Yeah, they are doing everything to stabilise the ruble. In reality it won`t happend. What will they do it if they don`t get paid in rubles ? Cut of Europe from their Gas and Oil? These are like the Sactions EU is discussing. Russia is going to sanction themselfs ?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506660525106778120

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## Ich

jhungary said:


> And was I lying to myself??



Yes.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506675537032454147


----------



## jhungary

jamahir said:


> 1. When your puppet Ukranian military fires rocketes and artillery from residential areas and school grounds, hosts military hostels for foreign fighters in residential buildings and keeps military headquarters in former hospitals you should not expect those items to be treated warmly by the Russians.
> 
> 2. You, an American military person, are talking about international peaceful conduct conventions ?
> 
> 3. You mention hospital and there was this :
> 
> And this :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Jhungary will not listen. He is actually a legendary army man or a military intelligence man depending on his mood that day on PDF.
> 
> 
> 
> That is serious. I believe rabies has no cure.


Do show me any news report other than that "French" reporter on Ukrainian war crime in Donetsk? Also, as if People in your saint Donetsk did not do the same to Ukrainian during the whole 8 years of war.

As I said to another member, US have 3 confirmed airstrike on Afghan Hospital during the 20 years of war. WHO on the other hand, released a statement saying 43 hospital and health care structure was hit by Russia in less than 4 weeks.

Sure, all 43 is a mistaken strike coming from Russia side, dude, even if this is, that still show negligence. You don't mistakenly hit a health care structure 43 times in 4 weeks, and then we are just talking about Hospital.

Lol, and you have the gull to compare US war crime to Russia, if you want to do it, there are no contest, and Russia will win hands down. Literally, what you accuse of the US is doing in the entire war in Afghanistan and Iraq (20 and 14 years respective), Russia have done all that in 4 weeks........



Ich said:


> Yes.


Well, whatever you said for you to sleep better at night lol.

I mean, how am I to counter something without a point to counter at all? I said you are because I said you are. There are no way someone could have counter this.


----------



## DF41

-=virus=- said:


> the US didn't do too great in Iraq or A-stan either.


USA also did not do well in Somalia against a bunch of fishermen with AKs and RPGs

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## Amliunion

oberschlesier said:


> Photos are more difficult to fake, than text.
> 
> Yeah, they are doing everything to stabilise the ruble. In reality it won`t happend. What will they do it if they don`t get paid in rubles ? Cut of Europe from their Gas and Oil? These are like the Sactions EU is discussing. Russia is going to sanction themselfs ?



Russia has and is moving oil/gas sales to China. A massive market. Russia can keep selling. Europe can’t keep heating or driving. Some countries get 40% of their fuel from Russia.


----------



## Viet

WW3 looming
NATO accuses China of backing Russia aggression against Ukraine. Even calling Chinese as liar.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506649974557360136

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## LeGenD

Ukraine Just Captured Part Of One Of Russia's Most Capable Electronic Warfare Systems


Russia's lost Krasukha-4 electronic warfare system command module would be a prize for foreign intelligence agencies.




www.thedrive.com

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## Viet

Germany sends 2,000 more anti tank rockets to Ukraine. In total 4,000 pieces anti tank and anti aircraft missiles.









Russische Invasion: Deutschland liefert weitere Waffen an Ukraine


Berlin (dpa) - Das Verteidigungsministerium will der Ukraine zur Verteidigung gegen Russland 2000 weitere Panzerfäuste …




www.t-online.de









Ein Soldat hält auf dem Truppenübungsplatz im Rahmen der Informationslehrübung "Landoperationen 2016" eine Panzerfaust 3 in der Hand. Foto: picture alliance / dpa.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506682251651829764

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## Abid123

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506649974557360136


Pakistan should also buy Russian gas in rupees. If Russia wants rubles thats fine too.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506560008561045512
...maybe Putin has him tied to a nuclear missile

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506679570883395598


----------



## Vergennes

Nothing much left of this Russian T72 destroyed in Chernihiv today. The crew didn't survive.


----------



## Viet

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506682251651829764


Good thing if we pay in ruble. The problem is Putin wants to pay according to the exchange rate prior invasion. 
Not a good deal for Germany because the ruble has lost 40 percent in value.

If Putin delivers 40 percent more gas then ok.


----------



## Wood



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## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> Kharkiv - I have already said other than "Historical" value of it, I do not see any value to attack Kharkiv, and you are describing the Historical Value. And Historical Value means nothing in term of Strategic term. As in it does not help the Russian to win the war. It is only strategically important if Russia cannot attack from Belarus. But since they can, that put Kyiv just 150km south of Belarus border, which make taking Kharkiv pointless.
> 
> Mariupol is important, but you don't really need to attack them on day 1. Because Mariupol was locked in by sea of Azov (Russian have Kerch Strait and Crimea) They can pin the defender down like they do with Odesa to pin down the defender without using any troop, so they can take it after they took Kyiv. In fact, if Russia should use troop, they should have used them on Odesa not Mariupol.
> 
> Kyiv is THE ONLY objective they should have taken ASAP. Their goal is to demolish the Ukrainian Government and install their own regime, that's what "Demilitarization and Denazification" means, and you cannot do them without taking Kyiv first, because the president was there, and the entire government was there. You need to take them out to install your own government. And you need to do them As Soon As Possible.



Uh Kharkiv is northwest of the main Ukrainian Donbass front which is a primary objective. Getting it would mean a straight drive southeast to encircle them on Highway M03. Why is this militarily unimportant?

In addition how did you get "historical value" from "many ethnic Russians, possibility of an uprising or surrender"? That has nothing to do with history.

Why do you believe Kiev is an important military objective re: demilitarization? Surrounding the Donbass front and actually destroying their military would achieve that as well, but unlike Donbass doesn't require a narrow drive south that can't rely on backing from elsewhere. This is the only front that has this problem, every other front doesn't yet you place supreme emphasis on the Kievan front. Why?

Every single Russian press release emphasizes that Ukraine needs to leave Donbass region. Every negotiation with Ukraine including prewar involves those regions, and Crimea. Most Ukrainian forces are there. Most of the intense fighting is there. Attacks like on Kharkiv only make sense in this context. Yet why do you think Kiev is the main objective despite all this?

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## Amliunion

Uncle sam threatening China: 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506683748712316929

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506683853926440960


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506683806010724353

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## K_Bin_W

Wood said:


>



Despite massive propaganda against Put-IN/Russia the western media foaming at mouth day in day out, Shri Put-IN will meet his objectives actually he already has, UKr is not bringing NATO/Terrorists at Russkie borders. Russia will do more business with China and life will go on. Once the west realizes the whole story will go quiet and it will be business as usual.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506688082657091584

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## Thinker3

jhungary said:


> Well, I don't know man.
> 
> at least 65 % of fighting inside Germany is fought by Soviet Troop, the US stepped its campaign over the Rhine river, with selective unit going into Germany
> 
> NGO figure tagged US troop rape to 11040, even if you magnified it by 10 times, that's still into hundred thousand level. UK and France have similar amount of rape case reported by respective reporting
> 
> I am not saying Rape during war does not exist in the west, but there are no widespread and well known wholesale rape reported as in the Soviet Occupation zone.
> 
> And was I lying to myself??


Rape by Allied forces in Germany is in hundreds of thousands, and then the coerced prostitution in the occupied land which is considered legal by them.
Did the same to Japan. Rape and coerced prostitution. 
The rape was not reported because of the censorship.
Hollywood even tried to cover up the whole thing like in the movie Fury they showed that German women were ready, were waiting and willing to sleep with Americans. Can you believe the level of tyranny.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

kingQamaR said:


> The number of pro Putin comments on here are highly disturbing



What? So you guys don't want anything from the Russian side posted here?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506692618935279618

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## SIPRA

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> What? So you guys don't want anything from the Russian side posted here?



My assessment is that at least 80% posters, contributing to this thread, are anti-Russia and pro-US/West. This thread is already extremely lop-sided.

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## Ali_Baba

Sweden to provide 5,000 new Anti-Tank weapons



https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-03-23/sweden-to-provide-ukraine-with-5-000-more-anti-tank-weapons-tt-news-agency

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506694366987001861

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506695689039929347

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## Hassan Al-Somal

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Kharkiv is heavily ethnic Russian and they may have expected an uprising from the Russian population in support of the Russian Army. This obviously didn't happen but if it did, Kharkiv would've been a cakewalk and the entire Ukrainian eastern front would've been encircled. Instead they're fighting to the death.
> 
> Mariupol is a core military and political objective. It is the second most important city of Donetsk oblast and one of the last remaining ports on the Sea of Azov. They need to take it for Putin's political goals of taking the entire Donbass region. Militarily, not taking it means they cannot encircle the Ukrainian eastern front. What they did not expect was for Ukrainians to fight to the death.
> 
> Kiev actually makes the least sense as it can't connect to any other front and forms a salient that's vulnerable to cutoff, and it's highly unlikely for any pro Russian uprisings to occur there. This seems purely political.
> 
> In short: they expected uprisings or surrenders after shock and awe, and instead got fights to the death.



Ethnic Russians in Kharkiv and Mariupol have already triggered their uprising through the DNR and LPR militia - who are the forces doing the majority of the fighting in Eastern Ukraine. The Azov Neo Nazis would kill any pro-Russian civilian who stages a demonstration. This is why you see them keeping the population as hostages, so they can fight the Pro-Russian forces while the civilians who are caught in this conflict take the brunt of the casualties. The Ukrainian government's refusal of the proposed civilian corridors in East Ukraine from the Russian armed forces should be understood in this context.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506590537217884162

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## FairAndUnbiased

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Russian Planes Are Second Rate and China Copied Them | NextBigFuture.com
> 
> 
> Russian fighter jets are being shot down in Ukraine by US Stinger missiles and Ukraine's soviet era air defences. The Ukrainian defense ministry claims its
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nextbigfuture.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Planes Are Second Rate and China Copied Them



At least one is a provable, factual lie. source claims Russian and Chinese pilots fly equal time in training. 100 hours. 


but it can be proven that Chinese pilots fly 150+ hours per year, more than the 120 hour average of US pilots. I don't know if it's still more, but 50% extra flying time over Russian pilots is huge.









Warning Sounded on Cuts to Pilot Training


A decision by Air Force officials to reduce flying time in order to cut costs has meant many U.S. pilots now receive fewer training hours than counterparts among some European allies, India and even China, according to U.S. military officials.




www.wsj.com





Why is citing opinion pieces from random blogs allowed when citing Telegram for photos on the ground with no commentary not allowed?

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## F-22Raptor

Ali_Baba said:


> Sweden to provide 5,000 new Anti-Tank weapons
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-03-23/sweden-to-provide-ukraine-with-5-000-more-anti-tank-weapons-tt-news-agency




Ukraine is about to receive another huge influx of anti tank weapons. The $800M US weapons package with 9,000 anti tank weapons and Switchblades haven’t even arrived yet.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Thinker3 said:


> I can not believe you are PDF think tank Analyst. Or did you kid posted this?


This thread has shown that here are mostly political shitposters and quality management is zero.

Unsourced claims, insults, extremist political rants, racism, opinion blogs and outright propaganda are allowed (including those who post RT for claims outside Russian policy announcements).

Meanwhile many photos on the ground are not allowed, as in, the link source is literally banned.

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## Abid123

People here really thinking that Ukraine is winning lol..... How brainwashed can you be?

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506700141360828420

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## Amliunion

DPR forces near #Mariinka



Spoiler: Graphic 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506702287674171393


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506700387788673031

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506703585207328772

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## oberschlesier

Abid123 said:


> People here really thinking that Ukraine is winning lol..... How brainwashed can you be?


Ukrainians are pretty effictivelly defending themself ?


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## zartosht

oberschlesier said:


> Is this the only agrument, that you have ? Threaten to nuke everybody ?



its not about threatning to nuke people. but about understing the dynamics of escalation dominance.

The Russians have absolute escalation dominance.

the west has thrown virtually everything it feasibly could at Russia. They have waged all out economic warfare, Armed the ukie army to the teeth with modern weapons and training, and are even probably covertly using special forces.. 

while their media campaign is the other arm of their military machine.

Russia has not even escalated yet to the point of using vacuum bombs en masse. let alone start popping nukes. 

If you really think Russia will just accept defeat and humiliation in this existential battle for them. Before exausting all their escalatory options? you are an absolute naive fool..

What is the point of spending hundreds of billions of dollars to build the world biggest and most formidabble nuclear arsenal. To not be able to even leverage it enough to defend your borders from encroachment?


everybody has their "redline" or "hill they will die on".* The Russians have made it clear that Ukraine is the hill they will die on. Is the west prepared to die on the ukrainian hill with Russia? ?????????????????*

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## Amliunion

'Blatant lies' used as an argument by NATO is just n'importe quoi...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506630304173379589

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## jhungary

Thinker3 said:


> Rape by Allied forces in Germany is in hundreds of thousands, and then the coerced prostitution in the occupied land which is considered legal by them.
> Did the same to Japan. Rape and coerced prostitution.
> The rape was not reported because of the censorship.
> Hollywood even tried to cover up the whole thing like in the movie Fury they showed that German women were ready, were waiting and willing to sleep with Americans. Can you believe the level of tyranny.


Well, hundred of thousands is still not in the millions level with the Russian tho. 

As for whether or not they were under-reported, I would agree to disagree, but conventional wisdom suggest the rape committed by Western Allied is less than half a million, and that is on the high end. 

And also, conventional wisdom suggest rape within the allied controlled west we individual, but rape in Soviet Controlled in Germany are systematic.

And if you believe western Allied rape more women than Soviet Union, I can only say this, of over 70 publication I read before, some more authoritative and some not and some from the east and some from the west. Not a single one would put the rape culture of Western Allied less than Soviet.

On another side note. There are not a whole lot of Japanese women being raped by the American, most Japanese women would commit suicide either before or during them being raped due to the sheer size of propaganda. Women and children were encouraged to commit suicide rather than surrender to the allied force. And sadly a lot of women and children took that road.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506633279176429568

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## Amliunion

Mariupol shall fall soon: 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506700681381617670

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## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Uh Kharkiv is northwest of the main Ukrainian Donbass front which is a primary objective. Getting it would mean a straight drive southeast to encircle them on Highway M03. Why is this militarily unimportant?
> 
> In addition how did you get "historical value" from "many ethnic Russians, possibility of an uprising or surrender"? That has nothing to do with history.
> 
> Why do you believe Kiev is an important military objective re: demilitarization? Surrounding the Donbass front and actually destroying their military would achieve that as well, but unlike Donbass doesn't require a narrow drive south that can't rely on backing from elsewhere. This is the only front that has this problem, every other front doesn't yet you place supreme emphasis on the Kievan front. Why?
> 
> Every single Russian press release emphasizes that Ukraine needs to leave Donbass region. Every negotiation with Ukraine including prewar involves those regions, and Crimea. Most Ukrainian forces are there. Most of the intense fighting is there. Attacks like on Kharkiv only make sense in this context. Yet why do you think Kiev is the main objective despite all this?


About Kharkiv

You are not looking at a complete conquering of the entire Ukraine. Not with 200,000 troop that was original planned, not with the situation now. The strategic goal is to cut Ukraine in half and take the eastern half without pretty much a fight. Which the axis of advance would be along the Centerline between Kyiv and Dnipro and the southern arm if Russia want to cut Ukraine from accessing the sea of Azov and Black sea.

Not every road junction are important to your military campaign. Kharkiv is far from the Military objective and close to the border, effectively you can start with Kyiv and then push toward Kharkiv would be a better way to go than to push from Kharkiv then move West, because you are pushing Ukrainian into your line, not going over the Ukrainian line to take control of the Ukrainian city, that just not making any strategic sense. It would be a easier war to cut off the western part from the get go and then attack Eastward, as Russia itself is the entire blocking position. All of the Eastern Ukraine border Russia. So to push West instead of go center then push east, you are making your invasion harder for no particular reason. Essentially

If Russia wanted the entire Ukraine, that's another story, but then they would not have start with war with 200,000 troop, considering the population of Kyiv itself is 4 millions, 200,000 wouldn't cut even to occupy the entire Kyiv Oblast.

Also, Historical value is for both of them are ethnic Russian, as they were both "Historically Russian" so you get some sort of "Morale" victory to your people by saying "I save/liberate a bunch of ethnic Russian from Ukrainian abuse or what not" That does not do anything with the strategic goal, and it is not even a morale victory now many people in Kharkiv are actually fighting the Russian.

Why do I believe Kyiv is important to Demilitarize? First, ask yourself how a country is demilitarize? There are only 1 of 2 ways.

1.) Ukrainian Government capitulate - Government dissolved, thus dissolving the entire military, just like what we do in Iraq when we take Baghdad
2.) You eliminate enough of Ukrainian to make their force essentially decimated. A unit with over 20% casualty are combat ineffective, a unit with 50% casualty is not combat ready, a unit with 80% casualty are decimated. So by demilitarize Ukraine, you would need to eliminate up to 80% of the entire Ukrainian Armed Force

Now you tell me why is Kyiv is important?

Donbas was NEVER the objective of the Russian. I don't know what "paper" you read, but the ground situation I read is that it was not move, nor break out at all, suggesting that Russia is using Donbas region as blocking position. Which is basically to pin the Ukrainian troop already in Donbas, which is the only strategically smart decision Russia made during this whole war.

You don't even need to "Liberate" Donbas to achieve any of the Russian war goal. Again, Their war goal, as Putin put it is to demilitarize and denazify Ukraine, both of which involve a surgical strike to change the regime in Ukraine. Which mean Kyiv is key to both of them. You don't really fight a war with every inch of the soil to win a war. There is something in the military we called "Center of Gravity or COG" you take out the center of gravity, the entire country will fall.






Center of gravity (military) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





And I am pretty sure the COG in this case is not in Donbas. Otherwise they would not invade the entire country, if they just want to liberate Donbas.

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## Amliunion

Russia has blocked #googlenews

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## MajesticPug

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506500055502573573



I know you're one of the American warmongers and imperialists but please answer these two questions:
*What is the US trying to achieve by supplying weapons to Ukraine?* I meant, for the benefits of the Ukraine people and the world, and don't give me craps about freedom and democracy. Will Ukraine defeat Russia with some infantry weapons?

*What negative outcomes or damages could US do by supplying weapons to Ukraine?*

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506703308316106753

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## MajesticPug

jhungary said:


> Do show me any news report other than that "French" reporter on Ukrainian war crime in Donetsk? Also, as if People in your saint Donetsk did not do the same to Ukrainian during the whole 8 years of war.
> 
> As I said to another member, US have 3 confirmed airstrike on Afghan Hospital during the 20 years of war. WHO on the other hand, released a statement saying 43 hospital and health care structure was hit by Russia in less than 4 weeks.
> 
> Sure, all 43 is a mistaken strike coming from Russia side, dude, even if this is, that still show negligence. You don't mistakenly hit a health care structure 43 times in 4 weeks, and then we are just talking about Hospital.
> 
> Lol, and you have the gull to compare US war crime to Russia, if you want to do it, there are no contest, and Russia will win hands down. Literally, what you accuse of the US is doing in the entire war in Afghanistan and Iraq (20 and 14 years respective), Russia have done all that in 4 weeks........
> 
> 
> Well, whatever you said for you to sleep better at night lol.
> 
> I mean, how am I to counter something without a point to counter at all? I said you are because I said you are. There are no way someone could have counter this.



In case you didn't know, WHO or any influential organizations basically serve American interests. Did WHO or UN say anything about the 'white helmet' chemical attack US and UK staged? If you still cite US-controlled agencies' words to back you up, you're beyond hopeless, ridiculous, and pathetic.

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## Thinker3

jhungary said:


> Well, hundred of thousands is still not in the millions level with the Russian tho.
> 
> As for whether or not they were under-reported, I would agree to disagree, but conventional wisdom suggest the rape committed by Western Allied is less than half a million, and that is on the high end.
> 
> And also, conventional wisdom suggest rape within the allied controlled west we individual, but rape in Soviet Controlled in Germany are systematic.
> 
> And if you believe western Allied rape more women than Soviet Union, I can only say this, of over 70 publication I read before, some more authoritative and some not and some from the east and some from the west. Not a single one would put the rape culture of Western Allied less than Soviet.
> 
> On another side note. There are not a whole lot of Japanese women being raped by the American, most Japanese women would commit suicide either before or during them being raped due to the sheer size of propaganda. Women and children were encouraged to commit suicide rather than surrender to the allied force. And sadly a lot of women and children took that road.


Its not about who committed more rapes, do you think hundreds of thousands of rapes is a small amount? And they did systematically raped but not just openly but also in an organised manner, they coerced women into prostitution by different ways.
The rape did not only happen during the war but during the occupation of Germany and Japan. Women were raped in Japan and also coerced into prostitution in an organised and systematic manner.
Australian soldiers posted in Japan during Occupation after WW2 raped women patients and staff of an entire hospital.
Us troops gang raped an innocent iraqi women who they picked from her house by saying they want to interrogate her and then gang raped her in a US base and made video of her and even uploaded it on Internet. People only came to know about it because they uploaded the video, how many rapes may have happened in Iraq which never came out.

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## UKBengali

zartosht said:


> its not about threatning to nuke people. but about understing the dynamics of escalation dominance.
> 
> The Russians have absolute escalation dominance.
> 
> the west has thrown virtually everything it feasibly could at Russia. They have waged all out economic warfare, Armed the ukie army to the teeth with modern weapons and training, and are even probably covertly using special forces..
> 
> while their media campaign is the other arm of their military machine.
> 
> Russia has not even escalated yet to the point of using vacuum bombs en masse. let alone start popping nukes.
> 
> If you really think Russia will just accept defeat and humiliation in this existential battle for them. Before exausting all their escalatory options? you are an absolute naive fool..
> 
> What is the point of spending hundreds of billions of dollars to build the world biggest and most formidabble nuclear arsenal. To not be able to even leverage it enough to defend your borders from encroachment?
> 
> 
> everybody has their "redline" or "hill they will die on".* The Russians have made it clear that Ukraine is the hill they will die on. Is the west prepared to die on the ukrainian hill with Russia? ?????????????????*




No dude.

They will not die on this hill.

Even if Putin was crazy enough to order a nuclear strike, it will NOT be carried out as there is no existential threat to the existence of Russia as an independent state.

Despite what some people here may think, Russians are not prepared to die along with their families when they can live to fight another day.

Stop and think before you post next time.

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## Viet

S&P predicts Russia GDP will shrink a record 22 percent this year. The biggest ever slump in history.









Investors beware: The West is going to hit Russia with more sanctions


Western sanctions are decimating Russia's economy and sending shockwaves through global markets. Still, there is more to come from the United States and its allies.




amp.cnn.com

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## oberschlesier

zartosht said:


> its not about threatning to nuke people. but about understing the dynamics of escalation dominance.
> 
> The Russians have absolute escalation dominance.
> 
> the west has thrown virtually everything it feasibly could at Russia. They have waged all out economic warfare, Armed the ukie army to the teeth with modern weapons and training, and are even probably covertly using special forces..
> 
> while their media campaign is the other arm of their military machine.
> 
> Russia has not even escalated yet to the point of using vacuum bombs en masse. let alone start popping nukes.
> 
> If you really think Russia will just accept defeat and humiliation in this existential battle for them. Before exausting all their escalatory options? you are an absolute naive fool.
> 
> What is the point of spending hundreds of billions of dollars to build the world biggest and most formidabble nuclear arsenal. To not be able to even leverage it enough to defend your borders from encroachment?
> 
> 
> everybody has their "redline" or "hill they will die on".* The Russians have made it clear that Ukraine is the hill they will die on. Is the west prepared to die on the ukrainian hill with Russia? ?????????????????*


You are again very dramatic. It`s not a NATO-Russian war, but a Ukraine-Russia war. The west is helping Ukraine with infantry(!) weapons and humanitarian aid. The value of this help in USD is worth about the same as the yearly polish export of furniture. Mediocrate sactions were put against Russia, not too damage EU/US economy too much and increase the cost for Russia. Military options aside, there are much more serious sanctions, that can be introduced, but this would be a escalation and would be felt more in the EU.

If Russia wants to nuke russian speaking ukrainians to defend borders from "encroachment", this means that the Russia is very affraid of what ? Independend Ukraine ? Democracy ? Reallity ? If you have nukes, your territory is virtualy untouchable. It`s not existential battle for Russia, but rather for current elite in Moscow. Well, they started it and are now in deep in s***

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## jhungary

Thinker3 said:


> Its not about who committed more rapes, do you think hundreds of thousands of rapes is a small amount? And they did systematically raped but not just openly but also in an organised manner, they coerced women into prostitution by different ways.
> The rape did not only happen during the war but during the occupation of Germany and Japan. Women were raped in Japan and also coerced into prostitution in an organised and systematic manner.
> Australian soldiers posted in Japan during Occupation after WW2 raped women patients and staff of an entire hospital.
> Us troops gang raped an innocent iraqi women who they picked from her house by saying they want to interrogate her and then gang raped her in a US base and made video of her and even uploaded it on Internet. People only came to know about it because they uploaded the video, how many rapes may have happened in Iraq which never came out.


I don't

As I said, we can agree to disagree on how much rape or how systematic it was, but you cannot compare war rape unless you are comparing to historical figure, and with those, Russia/Soviet Union are probably leading the chart by a very large margin.



MajesticPug said:


> In case you didn't know, WHO or any influential organizations basically serve American interests. Did WHO or UN say anything about the 'white helmet' chemical attack US and UK staged? If you still cite US-controlled agencies' words to back you up, you're beyond hopeless, ridiculous, and pathetic.


That's what the American say, WHO is influenced by the Chinese for not reporting COVID in a timely manner and even to a point hiding the true situation.

Also WHO is better and more non-biased toward either side than Ukrainian source or Russian source.

And finally, this is no longer the 19th century or 20th century, we have satellite image that are commercially available, it would not take a few click to go check out the building that was being bombed by Russian. Which mean evidence to show the actual bombing is not really something that is really hard to find. There are tons of photo of hospital being bomb and you can check the aftermath either on the ground (By people taking snap shot) or from Satellite image. If you don't believe what WHO said, you are more than free to check it out yourself.

And LOL white helmet and chemical weapon.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506693557100466176

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## Thinker3

jhungary said:


> I don't
> 
> As I said, we can agree to disagree on how much rape or how systematic it was, but you cannot compare war rape unless you are comparing to historical figure, and with those, Russia/Soviet Union are probably leading the chart by a very large margin.


The point is both Allies and Soviets committed rapes numbered in hundreds of thousands and when you bring in the coerced prostitution by the allies which is also rape the number of rape by allies will not be less than Soviets.


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506717181307805701

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506715382094209025


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## Amliunion

Maryinka / Donetsk some UA fighters left behind after loosing the position:



Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506714287464763409


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## LeGenD

-=virus=- said:


> the US didn't do too great in Iraq or A-stan either.


Let us do the math here.

1. Russians have lost more (regular) troops and equipment in Ukraine in 4 weeks than Americans in several countries in 20 years.

2. Americans conducted military operations on a much bigger scale than Russia ever did. NATO fought and dismantled Al-Qaeda Networks and the sort in several countries. NATO also took over Iraq in a blitzkrieg and closed the chapter of Saddam Hussein and his political system. NATO closed the chapter of Qaddafi administration in Libya as well. The so-called War On Terror lasted 20 years and was concluded in 2021.

I admit that a modern war is NOT easy to fight but Indians and Russians have something in common - much talk but a lot less to show on the ground.

Russia can fight one war at a time and there are some countries which can defeat it in a conventional war - not many but some. Pakistan might be able to handle Russia in a conventional war as well.

USA is best equipped to fight a conventional war in the world and it is preparing to fight a nuclear war as well. USA is already capable of defeating a regional nuclear power in a war.

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## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> About Kharkiv
> 
> You are not looking at a complete conquering of the entire Ukraine. Not with 200,000 troop that was original planned, not with the situation now. The strategic goal is to cut Ukraine in half and take the eastern half without pretty much a fight. Which the axis of advance would be along the Centerline between Kyiv and Dnipro and the southern arm if Russia want to cut Ukraine from accessing the sea of Azov and Black sea.
> 
> Not every road junction are important to your military campaign. Kharkiv is far from the Military objective and close to the border, effectively you can start with Kyiv and then push toward Kharkiv would be a better way to go than to push from Kharkiv then move West, because you are pushing Ukrainian into your line, not going over the Ukrainian line to take control of the Ukrainian city, that just not making any strategic sense. It would be a easier war to cut off the western part from the get go and then attack Eastward, as Russia itself is the entire blocking position. All of the Eastern Ukraine border Russia. So to push West instead of go center then push east, you are making your invasion harder for no particular reason. Essentially
> 
> If Russia wanted the entire Ukraine, that's another story, but then they would not have start with war with 200,000 troop, considering the population of Kyiv itself is 4 millions, 200,000 wouldn't cut even to occupy the entire Kyiv Oblast.
> 
> Also, Historical value is for both of them are ethnic Russian, as they were both "Historically Russian" so you get some sort of "Morale" victory to your people by saying "I save/liberate a bunch of ethnic Russian from Ukrainian abuse or what not" That does not do anything with the strategic goal, and it is not even a morale victory now many people in Kharkiv are actually fighting the Russian.
> 
> Why do I believe Kyiv is important to Demilitarize? First, ask yourself how a country is demilitarize? There are only 1 of 2 ways.
> 
> 1.) Ukrainian Government capitulate - Government dissolved, thus dissolving the entire military, just like what we do in Iraq when we take Baghdad
> 2.) You eliminate enough of Ukrainian to make their force essentially decimated. A unit with over 20% casualty are combat ineffective, a unit with 50% casualty is not combat ready, a unit with 80% casualty are decimated. So by demilitarize Ukraine, you would need to eliminate up to 80% of the entire Ukrainian Armed Force
> 
> Now you tell me why is Kyiv is important?
> 
> Donbas was NEVER the objective of the Russian. I don't know what "paper" you read, but the ground situation I read is that it was not move, nor break out at all, suggesting that Russia is using Donbas region as blocking position. Which is basically to pin the Ukrainian troop already in Donbas, which is the only strategically smart decision Russia made during this whole war.
> 
> You don't even need to "Liberate" Donbas to achieve any of the Russian war goal. Again, Their war goal, as Putin put it is to demilitarize and denazify Ukraine, both of which involve a surgical strike to change the regime in Ukraine. Which mean Kyiv is key to both of them. You don't really fight a war with every inch of the soil to win a war. There is something in the military we called "Center of Gravity or COG" you take out the center of gravity, the entire country will fall.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Center of gravity (military) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I am pretty sure the COG in this case is not in Donbas. Otherwise they would not invade the entire country, if they just want to liberate Donbas.



For partition of Ukraine a Kiev to Dnipro drive is far too difficult especially as it would be a vulnerable salient with no backing from other fronts. A Kharkiv to Mariupol drive still encircles the roughly 100k troops of the regular Ukrainian Army which is pressed right up against the Donbass regions. The Kharkiv front also has backing from forces attacking northern Lugansk. It can be coordinated with uprisings and invasions in the Ukrainian reoccupied portions of Lugansk and Donetsk. From this point of view, Kharkiv is extremely important for the ambition of retaking every part of Lugansk and Donetsk oblasts.

I think it's the opposite: the attacks at Kiev and Odessa are pinning, while the attacks near Mykolaiv in the southwest, Mariupol in the Southeast and Kharkiv in the north are real. The ambition is to encircle Ukrainian regulars in the eastern cauldron with a drive north from Mariupol and drive south from Kharkiv. That eliminates 1/2-1/3 of Ukrainian regulars - achieving the 30% combat ineffective loss rate you quoted.

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## LeGenD

Thinker3 said:


> The point is both Allies and Soviets committed rapes numbered in hundreds of thousands and when you bring in the coerced prostitution by the allies which is also rape the number of rape by allies will not be less than Soviets.


This article should settle this debate:









The Horrific Mass Rape of German Women at the End of World War II


The greatest mass rape in history — the liberators raped over 2 million women




medium.com

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## NotSure

Russia is losing really, really bad! Russia weak, west stronk! "Poutin" stupid, west smart!










LeGenD said:


> Let us do the math here.
> 
> 1. Russians have lost more (regular) troops and equipment in Ukraine in 4 weeks than Americans in several countries in 20 years.


Based on what? Ukrop = Nato Propaganda? Or the fake news from the so called "pro Kremlin" newssite? Sorry to say this, but wake up! You are fooling your self and the longer you refuse to accept the reality, the harder it will be for you in the future.

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## oberschlesier

NotSure said:


> Russia is losing really, really bad! Russia weak, west stronk! "Poutin" stupid, west smart!


West? Ukraine is fighting. Theoretically Russia is several times stronger.
Anyway this defacto Minsk 2, which of course Ukraine won`t implement again.


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## LeGenD

NotSure said:


> Based on what? Ukrop = Nato Propaganda? Or the fake news from the so called pro Kremlin news? Sorry to say this, but wake up! You are fooling your self and the longer you refuse to accept the reality, the harder it will be for you in the future.


Based on Facts & Figures.









Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine







www.oryxspioenkop.com













Russia’s weekly troop losses in Ukraine have already overtaken Soviet casualties in Afghanistan | The Strategist


Russia claims that the number of its soldiers killed and injured in the first six days of its invasion of Ukraine is a fraction of what Ukraine has said to be more than 5,000 dead ...




www.aspistrategist.org.au













‘Winging It’: Russia Is Getting Its Generals Killed on the Front Lines


Russian generals have had to lead from the front because its amateur army can’t move otherwise.




foreignpolicy.com





Russian insider leak:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505972650786672648
I am *NOT* quoting Ukranian figures here.

Reality check: Russia might be able to overwhelm Ukraine but it is *NOT* equipped to fight a war like USA. This is true for other countries as well.

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## Amliunion

Few hours back 40-50K loses of Russian Army were posted on this thread. Reminds of the Ghost of Kyiv: 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506725015957430285

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## FairAndUnbiased

oberschlesier said:


> West? Ukraine is fighting. Theoretically Russia is several times stronger.
> Anyway this defacto Minsk 2, which of course Ukraine won`t implement again.


Ukraine is fighting this as a total war with every man 18-60 drafted. Russia is fighting this as a limited war. So far the Russian commitment is a bit higher than US during Vietnam which was a high intensity but nonetheless limited war for the US.

Russia still has escalatory options that have not been exercised though they should.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506722715885047816


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## Kraetoz

LeGenD said:


> Reality check: Russia might be able to overwhelm Ukraine but it is *NOT* equipped to fight a war like USA. This is true for other countries as well.


You mean US is better at invading other countries than Russia? I would say yes, that's true because they can freely get away with war crimes and no one is there to sanction US.

However, Russia is well equipped to turn entire NATO and US to ash. Everyone else is well equipped also to return the favor. There would be no winner in world war 3, entire world would lose.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506725941480939525

Ukrainians have now pushed the Russians 15 miles further east from Kiev. Counteroffensives looks to be successful

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## NotSure

LeGenD said:


> Based on Facts & Figures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.oryxspioenkop.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia’s weekly troop losses in Ukraine have already overtaken Soviet casualties in Afghanistan | The Strategist
> 
> 
> Russia claims that the number of its soldiers killed and injured in the first six days of its invasion of Ukraine is a fraction of what Ukraine has said to be more than 5,000 dead ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aspistrategist.org.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Winging It’: Russia Is Getting Its Generals Killed on the Front Lines
> 
> 
> Russian generals have had to lead from the front because its amateur army can’t move otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> foreignpolicy.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian insider leak:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505972650786672648
> I am *NOT* quoting Ukranian figures here.


First: I said Ukrainian propaganda is Nato Propaganda. And yes, you are repeating this propaganda here.

This Oryxsomething is collecting every photo(shopped) piece to serve the agenda. This is evidence in some cases, in others not.

Second: I mentioned the fake news from the so called "pro kremlin" Komsomolskaya pravda, which was simply a fake news article uploaded on the website. How is this evidence? If someone hacks tomorow the server and uploads an article with 40 Million dead soldiers it is a prof? Of course not. What you are doing here is lightyears away from a scientific method.

Komsomolskaya pravda is *not *even pro kremlin, a big part of their staff is liberal to the bones. If they are pro kremlin, then i am Donald Duck.

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## LeGenD

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Ukraine is fighting this as a total war with every man 18-60 drafted. Russia is fighting this as a limited war. So far the Russian commitment is a bit higher than US during Vietnam which was a high intensity but nonetheless limited war for the US.
> 
> Russia still has escalatory options that have not been exercised though they should.


Russia is doing whatever it can to overwhelm Ukraine. 

1. Russian forces have used record number of cruise missiles and ballistic missiles to strike at high value targets across Ukraine by now.

2. Putin administration have dispatched over 200,000 Russian regular and irregular troops to Ukraine by now.

3. Russian forces are bombarding Ukranian cities on a regular basis.

4. Over 10 million Ukranians displaced by now.

How is this limited war for Russia? This is largest (Russian) military operation in its history; even bigger in scale and scope than Soviet military operation in Afghanistan.

For Putin administration, much is at stake in this war.

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## Wood

LeGenD said:


> Based on Facts & Figures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.oryxspioenkop.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia’s weekly troop losses in Ukraine have already overtaken Soviet casualties in Afghanistan | The Strategist
> 
> 
> Russia claims that the number of its soldiers killed and injured in the first six days of its invasion of Ukraine is a fraction of what Ukraine has said to be more than 5,000 dead ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aspistrategist.org.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Winging It’: Russia Is Getting Its Generals Killed on the Front Lines
> 
> 
> Russian generals have had to lead from the front because its amateur army can’t move otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> foreignpolicy.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian insider leak:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505972650786672648
> I am *NOT* quoting Ukranian figures here.
> 
> Reality check: Russia might be able to overwhelm Ukraine but it is *NOT* equipped to fight a war like USA. This is true for other countries as well.


I've already been dismissed and dubbed uncredible for posting this tweet before. Apparently, this one tweet is completely not acceptable for the intelligentsia here. Beware


----------



## LeGenD

NotSure said:


> First: I said Ukrainian propaganda is Nato Propaganda. And yes, you are repeating this propaganda here.
> 
> This Oryxsomething is collecting every photo(shopped) piece to serve the agenda. This is evidence in some cases, in others not.
> 
> Second: I mentioned the fake news from the so called "pro kremlin" Komsomolskaya pravda, which was simply a fake news article uploaded on the website. How is this evidence? If someone hacks tomorow the server and uploads an article with 40 Million dead soldiers it is a prof? Of course not. What you are doing here is lightyears away from a scientific method.
> 
> Komsomolskaya pravda is *not *even pro kremlin, a big part of their staff is liberal to the bones. If they are pro kremlin, then i am Donald Duck.



1. Oynx is Turkish source and providing evidence of its claims. What do you have to refute its claims with? Russian propaganda sources?

Oynx is disclosing equipment losses of both Russia and Ukraine. This necessitates careful inspection of visual information on hand. This is the best a neutral source can do.

2. Komsomolskaya pravda is Russian source:









Komsomolskaya Pravda - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org













Komsomolskaya Pravda | Soviet newspaper


Komsomolskaya Pravda, (Russian: “Young Communist League Truth”) morning daily newspaper published in Moscow that was the official voice of the Central Council of the Komsomol, or communist youth league, for young people aged 14 to 28. Komsomolskaya Pravda was founded in 1925 and historically...



www.britannica.com





You are posting nonsense here and my advice is to stop.

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## mmr

zartosht said:


> its not about threatning to nuke people. but about understing the dynamics of escalation dominance.
> 
> The Russians have absolute escalation dominance.
> 
> the west has thrown virtually everything it feasibly could at Russia. They have waged all out economic warfare, Armed the ukie army to the teeth with modern weapons and training, and are even probably covertly using special forces..
> 
> while their media campaign is the other arm of their military machine.
> 
> Russia has not even escalated yet to the point of using vacuum bombs en masse. let alone start popping nukes.
> 
> If you really think Russia will just accept defeat and humiliation in this existential battle for them. Before exausting all their escalatory options? you are an absolute naive fool..
> 
> What is the point of spending hundreds of billions of dollars to build the world biggest and most formidabble nuclear arsenal. To not be able to even leverage it enough to defend your borders from encroachment?
> 
> 
> everybody has their "redline" or "hill they will die on".* The Russians have made it clear that Ukraine is the hill they will die on. Is the west prepared to die on the ukrainian hill with Russia? ?????????????????*


dude take a chill pill

if nuclear weapons was easy way out israel will send ur country to stone age long time ago

Nothing will happen. Russian will just keep bleeding left and right after that putler will do some sort of face saving agreement with west


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506730757192048651


----------



## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506693557100466176



US/NATO are already providing Ukraine with weapons that are killing and wounding thousands of Russian soldiers yet they can't do sh/t. Just hot air.

Russia keeps sending minorities as cannon fodder


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506719400455557120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506698996563296260

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## WotTen

oberschlesier said:


> West? Ukraine is fighting.



This is the part that is surreal.

NATO is providing weapons, real-time intelligence and even men into the Ukrainian Foreign Legion. Usually, many countries have laws forbidding their citizens from fighting in foreign militaries, but the US allows citizens to serve in PMCs which are present in Ukraine, and the UK has green lighted any citizen to go fight. I am not sure if this includes UK military personnel taking a 'leave of absence' to fight in Ukraine.

So, for all practical purposes, NATO is actively engaged in this war, albeit in a defensive role. Russia is pretending this isn't happening because it obviously is not ready to take on NATO.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506732640224759811

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506721706324512768

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## Wood

Vergennes said:


> US/NATO are already providing Ukraine with weapons that are killing and wounding thousands of Russian soldiers yet they can't do sh/t. Just hot air.
> 
> Russia keeps sending minorities as cannon fodder
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506719400455557120
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506698996563296260


These people from Dagestan or Chechnya are likely to not have any ideological motivation or justification to enter Ukraine. They are either doing it for money or they don't have a choice

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## Tamerlane

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506638413163905028

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## jamal18

Nato secretary general Stoltenberg talking. Very serious. Although Nato has said that it will not get involved in the fighting, new force deployments make that questionable. Also very serious threats to China.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506726591841382400
When air superiority is supposed to be established in the first hours of a conflict,Russia still hasn't achieved it one month after attacking Ukraine,they are so reluctant to conduct CAS missions that they have to fire cruise missiles from sea or within the Russian territory.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506738194582282240

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506650546165403650

🤯🤯


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## Vergennes

A Chechen captured by Azov fighters called on his countrymen to jihad against Russia. He reminded that Ukrainians had helped in the struggle for the independence of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria, emphasizing that war with Ukraine should not be fought on the side of bloody Russia. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506692949635182598


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## LeGenD

Kraetoz said:


> However, Russia is well equipped to turn entire NATO and US to ash. Everyone else is well equipped also to return the favor. There would be no winner in world war 3, entire world would lose.



Zelenskyy administration is a puppet setup according to Putin administration. It should have collapsed when Russian forces reached Kyiv. What went wrong then?

There is difference between perceptions and reality.

Russia can try nuclear option as well. But will it?

I provided some hints in following posts:

Post in thread 'Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/post-13629289

Post in thread 'Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/post-13629289

It was foolish to underestimate Ukraine and it would be infinitely more foolish to underestimate a force like NATO.

Nuclear war is NOT an option, my friend.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504325904465494016

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## UKBengali

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506726591841382400
> When air superiority is supposed to be established in the first hours of a conflict,Russia still hasn't achieved it one month after attacking Ukraine,they are so reluctant to conduct CAS missions that they have to fire cruise missiles from sea or within the Russian territory.





Russian attack helicopters and jets flying from 5km downwards will be soon be even more vulnerable as the UK has already trained the Ukrainians in the use of the Starstreak hand-held SAM.

It has a range of 7km and a speed of Mach 3+.

Things are going to get worse for the Russians quite soon.

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## BlindEagle

Amliunion said:


> Makes sense! 👍
> 
> The BlindEagle claims to live amongst Russian Speaking People in Ukraine but cannot speak Russian. His claims of living in Ukraine is Figment of his imagination.


I can’t speak Russian? 
Mate I don’t have to justify myself to you. Many people on the forum knows I’ve been living in ukraine for over 6 years 
@Kharap Foa @Bilal9 

Ps. You can’t even type in Russian, why didn’t you reply to what I said? Go piss off somewhere else

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## Vergennes

LMAO covert missions in vehicles marked "Z",those drunkards are even more stupid than I thought 

@F-22Raptor


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506717543926575111

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506728095331622921


----------



## BlindEagle

jamahir said:


> @BlindEagle
> 
> And Amliunion, look at Google result for "Melitopol". Already Wikipedia has been edited to say "Russian military occupation" and look at the media reports on the left :
> View attachment 826439
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlindEagle is a long-time member of PDF. He was earlier @Michael Corleone but then permabanned for that account. He was supposedly a medical student in Ukraine until the 6th of March but you have found out that he doesn't speak Russian despite his earlier claims to me too that he lives in a Russian-speaking region. His claims must be taken with a handful of salt.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you understand what human shields are ? But of course you as an American military person do know. You are big users of that foul idea.
> 
> 
> 
> Your words always indicate that if you had been alive in the 1970s you would have been against the North Vietnamese Communists.
> 
> And to hell with that Capitalist agency Goldman Sachs and its likes and interest-based economics. The Wall Street and the London Stock Exchange should be abolished. The Occupy Movement of 2011 wanted exactly that until the Western governments sabotaged the movement.
> 
> 
> 
> I also find disturbing presence of TJ people like you who hate Russia because of historic ideological reasons.


Lol your opinion is construed from mainstream media. Go figure, doesn’t take a lot to fall into confirmation bias. 
Who’re you to judge my Russian speaking abilities when you don’t speak a word of the language lmao.

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## oberschlesier

WotTen said:


> This is the part that is surreal.
> 
> NATO is providing weapons, real-time intelligence and even men into the Ukrainian Foreign Legion. Usually, many countries have laws forbidding their citizens from fighting in foreign militaries, but the US allows citizens to serve in PMCs which are present in Ukraine, and the UK has green lighted any citizen to go fight. I am not sure if this includes UK military personnel taking a 'leave of absence' to fight in Ukraine.
> 
> So, for all practical purposes, NATO is actively engaged in this war, albeit in a defensive role. Russia is pretending this isn't happening because it obviously is not ready to take on NATO.


No it`s not. NATO is not a side. Many people have the fantasy here, this is the case, or even wants this.

1. You can trade with or help a combatant, but this does not mean you are a side in a conflict. EU is buying oil and gas from Russia as well, in this way de facto financing them.
Historical example: Sweden as neutral party and was supplying Nazi Germany with Iron Ore during the WW2. US was supporing UK before end of 1941 and was not at war with Nazi Germany.

2. The support for Ukraine is relatively small, the military help is worth more/less the value of yearly polish furniture(!) export to show you the economical scale.

3. The sactions are to punish Russia for breaking international law /commitments and acting irresponsibly as member of the UN security council.

4. NATO is balacing on not getting involved militarly, helping Ukraine and not losing a Channel to Moscow.

5. Citizens are free to go to Ukraine and fight as they wish representing themself not the Country. In many countries they can expect charges when they are back.

6. Most of the people in the "West" support Ukraine as they see Russia as an aggressor and don`t buy this weak Russian neo-nazi story + Zelensky leadership is great. That`s why all the help.

7. Russian army performance in this conflict is rather poor taking into account their potential, the strategic goal is difficult to understand, so everybody thinks this is not real and try to explain it to themself with NATO involvement.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506673602015473670
Could it be possible the some Russian general made a deal with CIA to deliver this asset? Apparently, it is a big deal for the western side 









Ukraine captures a Russian electronic warfare system. Why it is a jackpot for foreign intelligence?


Krasukha-4 is capable of jamming ground-based and airborne radars as well as spy satellites. It loss might hit Russian forces hard.




interestingengineering.com

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506702136691683329

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506702139531284480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506702142274347009

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506702144988082178

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506702147848531977

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506702150679732231

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## Wood




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## oberschlesier

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506702136691683329
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506702139531284480
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506702142274347009
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506702144988082178
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506702147848531977
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506702150679732231


There is another option. Ignore Russia.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506743586578120712

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506741175344152581


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## Amliunion

oberschlesier said:


> There is another option. Ignore Russia.


Niemcy mogą się z tym nie zgodzić.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506745089053409297

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## oberschlesier

Amliunion said:


> Niemcy mogą się z tym nie zgodzić.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506745089053409297


Rublem placic nie beda


----------



## Amliunion

BlindEagle said:


> I can’t speak Russian?
> Mate I don’t have to justify myself to you. Many people on the forum knows I’ve been living in ukraine for over 6 years
> @Kharap Foa @Bilal9
> 
> Ps. You can’t even type in Russian, why didn’t you reply to what I said? Go piss off somewhere else



I wrote that post in Russian using English Alphabets.

You can also go Piss off Somewhere else. This feeling is mutual.



oberschlesier said:


> Rublem placic nie beda



Yuan would do.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506747101891510287

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## Amliunion

Tik Tok heroes. I can't wait to came across one of them to ask them how it was hanging out with Nazis.

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506748402368921607

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## Type59

LeGenD said:


> Let us do the math here.
> 
> 1. Russians have lost more (regular) troops and equipment in Ukraine in 4 weeks than Americans in several countries in 20 years.
> 
> 2. Americans conducted military operations on a much bigger scale than Russia ever did. NATO fought and dismantled Al-Qaeda Networks and the sort in several countries. NATO also took over Iraq in a blitzkrieg and closed the chapter of Saddam Hussein and his political system. NATO closed the chapter of Qaddafi administration in Libya as well. The so-called War On Terror lasted 20 years and was concluded in 2021.
> 
> I admit that a modern war is NOT easy to fight but Indians and Russians have something in common - much talk but a lot less to show on the ground.
> 
> Russia can fight one war at a time and there are some countries which can defeat it in a conventional war - not many but some. Pakistan might be able to handle Russia in a conventional war as well.
> 
> USA is best equipped to fight a conventional war in the world and it is preparing to fight a nuclear war as well. USA is already capable of defeating a regional nuclear power in a war.



Cool. Thanks for cleaning up Middle East, unfortunately US and South America has many no go areas. Maybe use your conquering military to clean own backyard. Alot of vets are camped out in SF area, you could mobilise them😂


----------



## MajesticPug

jhungary said:


> I don't
> 
> As I said, we can agree to disagree on how much rape or how systematic it was, but you cannot compare war rape unless you are comparing to historical figure, and with those, Russia/Soviet Union are probably leading the chart by a very large margin.
> 
> 
> That's what the American say, WHO is influenced by the Chinese for not reporting COVID in a timely manner and even to a point hiding the true situation.
> 
> Also WHO is better and more non-biased toward either side than Ukrainian source or Russian source.
> 
> And finally, this is no longer the 19th century or 20th century, we have satellite image that are commercially available, it would not take a few click to go check out the building that was being bombed by Russian. Which mean evidence to show the actual bombing is not really something that is really hard to find. There are tons of photo of hospital being bomb and you can check the aftermath either on the ground (By people taking snap shot) or from Satellite image. If you don't believe what WHO said, you are more than free to check it out yourself.
> 
> And LOL white helmet and chemical weapon.



LOL your 'WHO influenced by the Chinese' not reporting Covid. Did you know WHO director wanted to play fair and investigated both the US labs and the Chinese? Trump waged the sanction weapons and cut off funding to WHO. The director almost immediately changed his stance. That's how US bullied other people. Expect justice from Americans? F No. You don't know shit.. and you should go away with your tail tugged.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506753922224074756

The Russian offensive on Kiev is on life support

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## BlindEagle

Amliunion said:


> I wrote that post in Russian using English Alphabets.
> 
> You can also go Piss off Somewhere else. This feeling is mutual.
> 
> 
> 
> Yuan would do.


используйте кириллицу в следующий раз, пидар

You wrote «у вас есть меню на руки»
What are you trying to imply by asking if I have a menu on my hand? Without context your question if I can call it that, is gibberish.
Stick to india or you’ll get thrashed by the polish border guards like your countrymen and women did at polish border 😂

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## FairAndUnbiased

LeGenD said:


> Russia is doing whatever it can to overwhelm Ukraine.
> 
> 1. Russian forces have used record number of cruise missiles and ballistic missiles to strike at high value targets across Ukraine by now.
> 
> 2. Putin administration have dispatched over 200,000 Russian regular and irregular troops to Ukraine by now.
> 
> 3. Russian forces are bombarding Ukranian cities on a regular basis.
> 
> 4. Over 10 million Ukranians displaced by now.
> 
> How is this limited war for Russia? This is largest (Russian) military operation in its history; even bigger in scale and scope than Soviet military operation in Afghanistan.
> 
> For Putin administration, much is at stake in this war.


And US deployed strategic bombers in Vietnam dropping more explosives than in entirely of WW2, lost 3.7k planes and 5.6k helicopters, increased conscription, used chemical weapons and deployed 2.5 million troops, peaking at 590k in 1969. 

US used artillery, tanks, helicopters... It was a very high intensity war. 

South Vietnam was a core US ally that US was quite committed to defending.

Yet it was still a limited war:

1. Still normal civilian economy with no rationing or diversion of civil economy assets for military production.

2. Still normal functioning of society with only somewhat limited freedoms compared to prewar.

3. Still didn't deploy the bulk of troops to Vietnam.

The same is true for Russia: they have much more tools at their disposal to escalate, just like US did, such as strategic bombers, war economy, mobilizing reserves, chemical weapons, etc.

Millions of Ukrainians being displaced means that it is a total war for Ukraine. But not for Russiam

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## Abid123

LeGenD said:


> Russia can fight one war at a time and there are some countries which can defeat it in a conventional war - not many but some. Pakistan might be able to handle Russia in a conventional war as well.
> 
> USA is best equipped to fight a conventional war in the world and it is preparing to fight a nuclear war as well. USA is already capable of defeating a regional nuclear power in a war.


"Russia can fight one war at a time and there are some countries which can defeat it in a conventional war".

Please define "defeat"? There are only 2 countries in the world that can defeat Russia in a conventional war: China and USA. 

The only reason Pakistan would be able "handle" Russia in a conventional war is because Russia has limited power projection capabilities. Russia is conventionally leagues stronger than Pakistan. I am saying this as a nationalist.

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## NotSure

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506748402368921607


Maybe twatter will ban Spriter and few other pro russian accounts as a retaliation.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## K_Bin_W

Abid123 said:


> People here really thinking that Ukraine is winning lol..... How brainwashed can you be?


Yes they are, you have any doubts? Just check twitter.. They are absolutely winning on twitter...


----------



## BlindEagle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506753922224074756
> 
> The Russian offensive on Kiev is on life support


No wonder. They effed up on day 2 of invasion. The logistics came under constant attacks by Ukrainian forces who were supposedly aided by US special forces volunteers.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506760201185075202

And now the UK is massively increasing its weapons packages. Russia is in deep doo doo

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506762370575749124


----------



## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506760201185075202
> 
> And now the UK is massively increasing its weapons packages. Russia is in deep doo doo


Good job UK

not sure why canada not sending more


----------



## F-22Raptor

mmr said:


> Good job UK
> 
> not sure why canada not sending more



US- 9,000
UK- 6,000
Sweden- 5,000
Germany- 2,000

22,000 new anti tank/armor missiles heading to Ukraine.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506762784918413320


----------



## The SC

Putin demands 'unfriendly countries' pay for Russian gas in rubles​The Russian ruble rose in the exchange market today, Wednesday, after President Vladimir Putin's announcement..The ruble rose by 3% after it had risen by more than 8% twice during trading.. Putin's decision to convert energy payments into the Russian currency confused the Westerners, they now have two options, either boycotting Russian energy, which means disrupting all aspects of life in #Europe, or paying in rubles, which means supporting the Russian currency, and financing the military operation..

https://www.npr.org/2022/03/23/1088350219/putin-russia-gas-ruble


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506762784918413320

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506753817483874307

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## Wood

This interview from a German politician shows how successful Putin has been in driving Europe to America's side. He says that Obama told us to spend 2% on defence but we were wrong to not do our part.

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## gambit

People are working overtime to salvage face for Russia.



FairAndUnbiased said:


> And US deployed strategic bombers in Vietnam dropping more explosives than in entirely of WW2, lost 3.7k planes and 5.6k helicopters, increased conscription, used chemical weapons and deployed 2.5 million troops, peaking at 590k in 1969.
> 
> US used artillery, tanks, helicopters... It was a very high intensity war.
> 
> South Vietnam was a core US ally that US was quite committed to defending.
> 
> *Yet it was still a limited war:*
> 
> 1. Still normal civilian economy with no rationing or diversion of civil economy assets for military production.
> 
> 2. Still normal functioning of society with only somewhat limited freedoms compared to prewar.
> 
> 3. Still didn't deploy the bulk of troops to Vietnam.
> 
> The same is true for Russia: they have much more tools at their disposal to escalate, just like US did, such as strategic bombers, war economy, mobilizing reserves, chemical weapons, etc.
> 
> Millions of Ukrainians being displaced means that it is a total war for Ukraine. But not for Russiam


The reason why the Vietnam War was 'limited' for the US/SVN alliance was because of the 17th parallel. The US/SVN alliance was fighting for partition so other than the USAF, the US/SVN ground forces did not cross the 17th, essentially made North Viet Nam a respite area for the NVA/VC forces to regroup, rearm, and recruit. The US/SVN would have overran the NVA if they wanted.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> US- 9,000
> UK- 6,000
> Sweden- 5,000
> Germany- 2,000
> 
> 22,000 new anti tank/armor missiles heading to Ukraine.




Many of which were already captured by Russian and pro-Russian forces, and handed over to the LNR and DNR freedom fighters.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

gambit said:


> People are working overtime to salvage face for Russia.
> 
> 
> The reason why the Vietnam War was 'limited' for the US/SVN alliance was because of the 17th parallel. The US/SVN alliance was fighting for partition so other than the USAF, the US/SVN ground forces did not cross the 17th, essentially made North Viet Nam a respite area for the NVA/VC forces to regroup, rearm, and recruit. The US/SVN would have overran the NVA if they wanted.



True which supports the assertion that it was a limited war despite the high intensity.

If they crossed the 17th parallel that risked a direct Chinese and or Soviet intervention which they didn't want.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506783303583604744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506690669951258628

The US will pursue criminal prosecutions against Russian war criminals

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## Microsoft

jhungary said:


> lol, if they are willing to go to Russia, there will not be a war to begin with....There is no war in Russia BECAUSE Russia invaded Ukraine, not the other way around...It's like you keep saying "Stop hitting yourself" when you are the one who move someone hand and smack that someone on their face.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And as I said, it's not about using them as a shield. It's about you encroach their territories. Again, where do you suppose the Civilian to go? When Russia do not really care where their shell and missile is going to land.
> 
> Think about it this way, there are 3 confirmed attack on Afghan Hospital by US Air Strike during the entire 20 years war in Afghanistan, according to WHO, there are more than 40 in just 4 week of war in Ukraine......It's not about whether or not Ukrainian uses civilian as human shield, when you are seen to be systemically target non-military structure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At Least 43 Hospitals And Health Facilities Attacked In Ukraine, Says WHO | The Daily Wire
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailywire.com



Wrong. If there was never a NATO supported coup (where have we seen that before?) to get Ukraine to join NATO there would've never been a war.
Afghans didn't hide missile launchers in hospitals as they didn't have missile launchers! So the question arises why were 3 hospitals even bombed? btw who funded WHO when that stat was released?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506580654741467138

Reactions: Like Like:
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## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> US- 9,000
> UK- 6,000
> Sweden- 5,000
> Germany- 2,000
> 
> 22,000 new anti tank/armor missiles heading to Ukraine.


that is good news. i have a feeling there will be lot more coming. EU just announce double the help.

USA only released 800 million dollar from the 13 billion dollar that was approved. which mean shit load of arms in the pipeline.










Ukraine: EU doubles military aid to €1 billion — live updates | DW | 23.03.2022


The European Union has confirmed its decision to double its military aid to Ukraine to €1 billion. NATO estimates say 7,000 to 15,000 Russians have died in the invasion. Follow DW for the latest.




www.dw.com





Ukraine: EU doubles military aid to €1 billion​









UK doubles number of missiles sent to Ukraine ahead of Nato summit


Boris Johnson announces provision of 6,000 weapons and £25m for Ukraine’s military




www.theguardian.com





UK doubles number of missiles sent to Ukraine ahead of Nato summit​


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506787070546780162


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506741649157902347

Reactions: Like Like:
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## mmr

Wood said:


> This interview from a German politician shows how successful Putin has been in driving Europe to America's side. He says that Obama told us to spend 2% on defence but we were wrong to not do our part.


Putler might be CIA agent or he is just too dumb lol

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 1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506387276305207296

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## Hassan Al-Somal

mmr said:


> that is good news. i have a feeling there will be lot more coming. EU just announce double the help.
> 
> USA only released 800 million dollar from the 13 billion dollar that was approved. which mean shit load of arms in the pipeline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine: EU doubles military aid to €1 billion — live updates | DW | 23.03.2022
> 
> 
> The European Union has confirmed its decision to double its military aid to Ukraine to €1 billion. NATO estimates say 7,000 to 15,000 Russians have died in the invasion. Follow DW for the latest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dw.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine: EU doubles military aid to €1 billion​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UK doubles number of missiles sent to Ukraine ahead of Nato summit
> 
> 
> Boris Johnson announces provision of 6,000 weapons and £25m for Ukraine’s military
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UK doubles number of missiles sent to Ukraine ahead of Nato summit​





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506646350183780365


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506782853270548486

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## mmr

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506646350183780365


lol ya they captured all the 22k missiles 

cool story bro

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Plutonium General's account was suspended. It looks like Twitter doesn't want any of the Russian stories to get out there. They want the rest of the world misinformed on Russia and the Russian military's efforts to de-Nazify Ukraine. 





__





Loading…






twitter.com

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## The SC

Captured Ukrainian Female Soldiers By Russian Forces in Ukraine​

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506730757192048651


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506753817483874307





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506767928523382786

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506694976058580993


----------



## jhungary

Microsoft said:


> Wrong. If there was never a NATO supported coup (where have we seen that before?) to get Ukraine to join NATO there would've never been a war.
> Afghans didn't hide missile launchers in hospitals as they didn't have missile launchers! So the question arises why were 3 hospitals even bombed? btw who funded WHO when that stat was released?


lol, you know nothing about the situation..

Ukraine NEVER wanted to join NATO, they wanted to join EU, NATO was not a popular subject even after and during Maidan. It was only popular amongst Ukrainian after Russian annex Crimea

Also, there were no government to " Coup" as Yanukovych's government was dissolved (He never have enough vote both in Presidential Election and Rada) when YTP pull their support of their joint government. Maidan happened AFTER Yanukovych ran away with about 2 billions of Ukrainian money when he realise he cannot win a re-election.

If you would have used your brain once in a while instead of listening to propaganda, you will know there are no possible way Maiden happened BEFORE Yanukovych fled the country. The first thing they do is to surround the Presidential Palace, like, yeah, I am sure the Maidan protester will let Yanukovych leave the home with 2 billions or so Ukrainian money on tow without doing anything.

And lol, I don't know who is funding Who, it depends on who you ask, if you ask the American, you would say it's China. Also, in this day and age when you can actually pay 14 bucks a month to access a commercial satellite, and everyone with a mobile phone is a Cameraman, you don't really need to listen to WHO-ever to believe anything, there are tons of photo online on Hospital being bomb by the Russian, hell you can even fork out $14 (more or less, I don't remember how much is the subscription) and check it out yourself, all address are mapped



MajesticPug said:


> LOL your 'WHO influenced by the Chinese' not reporting Covid. Did you know WHO director wanted to play fair and investigated both the US labs and the Chinese? Trump waged the sanction weapons and cut off funding to WHO. The director almost immediately changed his stance. That's how US bullied other people. Expect justice from Americans? F No. You don't know shit.. and you should go away with your tail tugged.


Well, tell that to the American. 

And then on top of that, you have no respond to what I wrote other than WHO. 

So, who know shit now??

I mean, hey, you don't want to believe Russian bomb school or hospital, that's up to you, when it is easier to count how many school left than how many school was destroyed, and it's not lacking photographic evidence to support that. I mean, if you pretend those thing never exist, that's you, and that does not mean those photo never existed. 

And IIRC, you seems to be the one that triggered. I have never reply to you or quote you. So, if anyone need to go away, it's you.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506758066494185482

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506753765994647556

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506791282882007044

White House seeking $813B in defense spending in 2023

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## Hassan Al-Somal




----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506727621656256516

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506788043776094211
Great read from the WarZone. Russia has Lost

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## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> For partition of Ukraine a Kiev to Dnipro drive is far too difficult especially as it would be a vulnerable salient with no backing from other fronts. A Kharkiv to Mariupol drive still encircles the roughly 100k troops of the regular Ukrainian Army which is pressed right up against the Donbass regions. The Kharkiv front also has backing from forces attacking northern Lugansk. It can be coordinated with uprisings and invasions in the Ukrainian reoccupied portions of Lugansk and Donetsk. From this point of view, Kharkiv is extremely important for the ambition of retaking every part of Lugansk and Donetsk oblasts.
> 
> I think it's the opposite: the attacks at Kiev and Odessa are pinning, while the attacks near Mykolaiv in the southwest, Mariupol in the Southeast and Kharkiv in the north are real. The ambition is to encircle Ukrainian regulars in the eastern cauldron with a drive north from Mariupol and drive south from Kharkiv. That eliminates 1/2-1/3 of Ukrainian regulars - achieving the 30% combat ineffective loss rate you quoted.


First of all, what Salient? That entire line is 90% covered by Dnieper River, that's what we called BUND, you don't get a salient when you have a BUND. 

Secondly, tell me why Kharkiv has to be attack and targeted? In a strategic sense, Kharkiv is 20 miles to border, which mean if the Russian were to attack, they would and could anytime, which mean that translate to Ukraine cannot just leave Kharkiv alone. 

And then looking at the big picture, there are virtually* NOTHING* to gain by taking Kharkiv, even if you do succeed, all you get is a area where you have a major road junction, but then for what? You if you want to take Donbas, Donbas is right next to the separatist, you don't need to go down from Kharkiv. It is also next to Crimea and if your target is Mariupol, you can get there (and they did ) from Crimea. Kharkiv is sitting in the north-eastern side of the corner where it was not near any of the other front they were fighting (Too far for both Kyiv and Mariupol/Donbas), fighting in Kharkiv only means you dedicated some of your troop to pursuit for some morale victory. 

First of all, you cannot attack Odesa if you do not have a land connection. You need troop relieve and supply to flow in after you have taken Odesa, so the push thru Kherson and Mykolaiv itself is the proof that they want Odesa. And as I explained before, Kyiv, no matter how you see it, is the Center of Gravity of the entire thing. The war aim Russia set out to do would ONLY be achieve once they have taken Kyiv. Because if and when Kyiv stay with Ukrainian hand, they can neither demilitarize nor denazify Zelenskyy government. 

What you said is only make sense if the person who have plan this does not have any Military Planning. First of all, the Russian have too little troop to start fire all around. That is the sole reason why they have not gain anything meaningful after 28 days of war, even Mariupol still stand as of now. If they were to attack in that general direction, they would need double that number, and that is when we thought Russian Air Force is competent. Which is not, because they still yet to gain Local Air Superiority. In this situation (The actual 28 days war) you probably would need 1 million troop to do whatever they were set out to do, given the 5 to 1 instead of 3 to 1 ratio that needed for an open attack without adequate air support. 

Second of all, while it may be true Russia have taken out probably 30-40% of Ukrainian conventional combat power, they did not do so without losing a great deal of their own combat power. Which would be a problem, as I said before, I do not believe even if the Russia can take Mariupol, whatever troop left in Mariupol would not be able to threaten the 6 Battalions Ukrainian defender that were already in Donbas, the Russia lost too many people/resource/equipment fighting Mariupol defender, I do not see that force is in any combat readiness. That force would have been spent and needed recover and reorganisation before they can move north to intersect the Donbas defender. 

But then everyone Russia need to brought in and replace and resupply have to come from Russia. Ukraine only need to rearm and retrain their TDF inside their own country. And as time pass, TDF would have trained and equipped to the same level of Ukrainian Regular, just probably lacking of combat experience. Which mean the longer this war drag on, it favor more toward the defender, because logistic wise, it does not take that much to replace Ukrainian lost, comparing the rate Russian to replace their loss.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506609940441538560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506189183668342785

Reactions: Like Like:
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## SuvarnaTeja

Latest reports indicate that US is supporting Poland to annex Western part of Ukraine.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506761204462669834

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506764273128812544

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506521123197960192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506480865035100165

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506755732762513414

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506791282882007044
> 
> White House seeking $813B in defense spending in 2023


Seems like US is preparing for a World War! 🤯


----------



## The SC

Bayraktar TB2 drones and other aircraft take off from Uzhgorod airport, which is located next to the Slovak border (a NATO member state)..


----------



## DF41

Abid123 said:


> People here really thinking that Ukraine is winning lol..... How brainwashed can you be?




That is ok.

The waking up will turn all of them catatonic and babbling and all be in straits jackets and kept in the funny farm


----------



## SuvarnaTeja

Wood said:


> Seems like US is preparing for a World War! 🤯



Exiting times ahead. 

We no longer need to feel sad that we missed WW II, Pearl Harbor Attack and Hiroshima nuking

US imposed crippling sanctions on the Japanese before getting hit at Pearl Harbor.

It would be interesting to see where Russia would hit.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506721706324512768





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506725015957430285


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506756939904172038


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506673602015473670
> Could it be possible the some Russian general made a deal with CIA to deliver this asset? Apparently, it is a big deal for the western side
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine captures a Russian electronic warfare system. Why it is a jackpot for foreign intelligence?
> 
> 
> Krasukha-4 is capable of jamming ground-based and airborne radars as well as spy satellites. It loss might hit Russian forces hard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> interestingengineering.com



A mobile kitchen container has been declared as an "advanced Russian electronic warfare system Krasucha-4". The lame propaganda is deafening.









__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506725015957430285

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506719638641643525


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506722714517655568


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506717838408527874


----------



## PakFactor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506783303583604744
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506690669951258628
> 
> The US will pursue criminal prosecutions against Russian war criminals



LMAO. Sometimes I wonder if Zelensky is the real clown or the dumb a$$ retards in State Department with this "war crime" non-sense really getting old, smh.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## SuvarnaTeja

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506717838408527874



US is giving green signal to Poland to annex Western part of Ukraine.

This will be a non NATO operation as Germany is opposed to Poland annexing Ukraine.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506813454770122752

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## SuvarnaTeja

Poland is getting ready to annex Western Ukraine with support from the US.

This will be non NATO operation as Germany is opposed to this move.

Poland's claim is based on Pre WW II position.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506722714517655568




Ghanima (trophy) for the DNR and LPR people's militia.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506677652798820358

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506645809814994946


----------



## DF41

gambit said:


> People are working overtime to salvage face for Russia.
> 
> 
> The reason why the Vietnam War was 'limited' for the US/SVN alliance was because of the 17th parallel. The US/SVN alliance was fighting for partition so other than the USAF, the US/SVN ground forces did not cross the 17th, essentially made North Viet Nam a respite area for the NVA/VC forces to regroup, rearm, and recruit. The US/SVN would have overran the NVA if they wanted.




*USA dared not cross the parallel.*

China told them if USA cross the parallel, China will put Chinese boots on the ground below the parallel in numbers that pale what China did when Dugout Doug approached the Yalu River.









USA remembered what happened when they encountered Chinese even though most of the Chinese had only single shot bolt action rifle against USA battleships and artillery and Ma Deuces and unlimited ammo.

USA blinked and blinked and tail between legs and did not have the cojones to cross.

*GET YOUR FACTS CORRECT

Not that I be seeing your answer unless someone picked on that as I did not see the rot you posting (unless caught up in others posting.*


----------



## mmr

Renault suspends Russian business after Zelensky's speech • FRANCE 24 English​

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Clutch

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506783303583604744
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506690669951258628
> 
> The US will pursue criminal prosecutions against Russian war criminals




Hopefully they will vote next for the Iraq war crimes bill next....???

Hypocrites.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506753540777299970

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506777181929807881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506718305096241159


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506677652798820358





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506740561868435467


----------



## Foinikas

Viet said:


> too much posters here cheering for Russia war of aggression but condemning war elsewhere, why?
> 
> Meanwhile the price for war per Goldman Sachs prediction
> 
> Russia economy
> 
> Inflation: +20 percent
> Imports: -20 percent
> Exports: -10 percent
> Interest rate: +20 percent
> Gdp: -10 percent
> 
> That’s worse than when USSR collapsed.
> 
> That’s just the begin.


Because of Western hypocrisy and sanctions that can start a World War.

Americans and British suddenly care about Ukrainians,just like they suddenly cared about Bosnian Muslims and suddenly cared about Afghans.



thetutle said:


> How does this work? do they keep them in some dungeons? doesn't europe have police? Has anyone here ever tried to buy a human in europe?
> 
> This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.


You must be extremely naive. Do you live in USA? Haven't you heard of such incidents in Europe? Especially about women from the Eastern Bloc that are promised work in other countries and end up being held prisoner by mafia. They take their passports and demand they "repay them" by becoming prostitutes. Haven't you watched "Taken"?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506367246226145283

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506798881174167552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506790397841924099


----------



## SuvarnaTeja

gambit said:


> People are working overtime to salvage face for Russia.



Have you checked your posting history? You have 22 pages of history just on this thread. You beat all others by a big margin.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506731586489917461


Bashar al-Assad talks about the West's support for the Nazi Azov Brigade


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506780484537303040


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506751745640255492

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506824491778949129

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## sur

Amliunion said:


> Footage of the launch of sea-based Kalibr cruise missiles:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506552975573106690



One tweet says target was *Orzhiv*/Orzhev *14Km NW of Rivno*/Rovno.
There's HUGE number of tanks and military trucks parked near Orzhiv.

This area may have been targeted by these Kalibr. 


*Coordinates: 50.769, 26.097*











Go to the coordinates and zoom in to see the number of vehicles/tanks parked 
They may have been moved since image is probably old.













Different angles:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506726184104697861

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506342287860801538

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506830402119421955

A member of US Congress trolling Russia over obtaining the EW system. Wow

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506728478359572494

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506723374717882378

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504185894198300684


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506719917051195399

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506606693576228874



Spoiler





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506656389443301380


----------



## Viet

Foinikas said:


> Because of Western hypocrisy and sanctions that can start a World War.
> 
> Americans and British suddenly care about Ukrainians,just like they suddenly cared about Bosnian Muslims and suddenly cared about Afghans.
> 
> 
> You must be extremely naive. Do you live in USA? Haven't you heard of such incidents in Europe? Especially about women from the Eastern Bloc that are promised work in other countries and end up being held prisoner by mafia. They take their passports and demand they "repay them" by becoming prostitutes. Haven't you watched "Taken"?


You don’t understand. The west sees Russia attack on Ukraine as attack on Poland, Baltic, East europe, west Europe and the rest.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506630242655477763

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506629974530342913

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506628948138078214

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506715223675359242
https://news.yahoo.com/putin-ally-s...2.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw&tsrc=twtr


----------



## Amliunion

BlindEagle said:


> используйте кириллицу в следующий раз, пидар
> 
> You wrote «у вас есть меню на руки»
> What are you trying to imply by asking if I have a menu on my hand? Without context your question if I can call it that, is gibberish.
> Stick to india or you’ll get thrashed by the polish border guards like your countrymen and women did at polish border 😂


Iz-za ukrainskikh natsistov prishlos' postradat' lyudyam vsekh natsional'nostey. Vse indiyskiye studenty vernulis' v Indiyu. Vas postavyat na mesto, mozhete poprobovat'.


----------



## Clutch




----------



## Tamerlane

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506753765994647556



Seems to me like Zelensky’s next speech will be in Aramaic and he’ll announce that he’s Jesus Christ.

Reactions: Love Love:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## lcloo

This thread has exposed true colors of many countries, it also exposed who are the paid cyber contractors among our forum members.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506846280164814859
Gen Hodges


----------



## gambit

SuvarnaTeja said:


> Have you checked your posting history? You have 22 pages of history just on this thread. You beat all others by a big margin.


But am not here to salvage face for Russia. Am here to see how badly Russia is doing.


----------



## hualushui



Reactions: Like Like:
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## gambit

DF41 said:


> *USA dared not cross the parallel.*
> 
> China told them if USA cross the parallel, China will put Chinese boots on the ground below the parallel in numbers that pale what China did when Dugout Doug approached the Yalu River.


Yeah...Sure...You go on believing that.


----------



## SuvarnaTeja

gambit said:


> But am not here to salvage face for Russia. Am here to see how badly Russia is doing.



Of course you are here to salvage the pride of the US.

I was just pointing out that it is the case of pot calling the kettle black.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

Foinikas said:


> Because of Western hypocrisy and sanctions that can start a World War.
> 
> Americans and British suddenly care about Ukrainians,just like they suddenly cared about Bosnian Muslims and suddenly cared about Afghans.
> 
> 
> You must be extremely naive. Do you live in USA? Haven't you heard of such incidents in Europe? Especially about women from the Eastern Bloc that are promised work in other countries and end up being held prisoner by mafia. They take their passports and demand they "repay them" by becoming prostitutes. Haven't you watched "Taken"?


lol, no, just no. Some critical thought is required here. If the average Joe can access these women through prostitution, so can the police agencies. Of course if you believe in the cabal of elites that facilitate all this, then nothing can be said. Noone can prove a negative so disproving that the west is run by a rapist cabal that do stuff like this is impossible.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506797100096393221

Reactions: Sad Sad:
1


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## jamahir

BlindEagle said:


> Lol your opinion is construed from mainstream media. Go figure, doesn’t take a lot to fall into confirmation bias.



And what does "mainstream media" mean ? And if you are the long-time member @Michael Corleone as you claim then you will know that I don't accept information as is.



BlindEagle said:


> Who’re you to judge my Russian speaking abilities when you don’t speak a word of the language lmao.



@Amliunion says you don't speak Russian either.

---

Amliunion, why is Elon that way in your profile picture ?


----------



## Viet

Ukraine army launched counter attacks against Russia troops at Kiev, possibly retaking Makariw and Moschun. With realistic encirclement of Russia troops at Butscha and Irpin.









Kiew meldet neue russische Bodenangriffe im Donbass-Gebiet


Das Stahlwerk in Mariupol wurde noch immer nicht eingenommen, doch auch Evakuierungen aus dem Werk gestalten sich schwierig. Die ukrainischen Sicherheitsbehörden haben einen russischen Agentenring ausgehoben. Alle Neuigkeiten zum Angriff auf die Ukraine finden Sie hier im Ticker.




m.focus.de





Ukrainische Streitkräfte führten zudem erfolgreiche Gegenangriffe gegen russische Stellungen in Orten am Rande der Hauptstadt durch und hätten möglicherweise Makariw und Moschun zurückerobert. Es bestehe „eine realistische Möglichkeit, dass die ukrainischen Streitkräfte nun in der Lage sind, russische Einheiten in Butscha und Irpin einzukreisen“, hieß es weiter.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506859603635671047


jamahir said:


> ---
> 
> Amliunion, why is Elon that way in your profile picture ?



Not Elon, it's Elona


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506861706789769224


----------



## jamahir

jhungary said:


> Do show me any news report other than that "French" reporter on Ukrainian war crime in Donetsk? Also, as if People in your saint Donetsk did not do the same to Ukrainian during the whole 8 years of war.
> 
> As I said to another member, US have 3 confirmed airstrike on Afghan Hospital during the 20 years of war. WHO on the other hand, released a statement saying 43 hospital and health care structure was hit by Russia in less than 4 weeks.
> 
> Sure, all 43 is a mistaken strike coming from Russia side, dude, even if this is, that still show negligence. You don't mistakenly hit a health care structure 43 times in 4 weeks, and then we are just talking about Hospital.
> 
> Lol, and you have the gull to compare US war crime to Russia, if you want to do it, there are no contest, and Russia will win hands down. Literally, what you accuse of the US is doing in the entire war in Afghanistan and Iraq (20 and 14 years respective), Russia have done all that in 4 weeks........



1. Why have you written French reporter in quotes ? And if you don't believe her then you wouldn't also have believed the British journalist Lizzie Phelan who in Libya in 2011 and reported on the crimes of the NATO-created Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood.

2. So now other than accusing the Russian military of war crimes you are now accusing the Donetsk-victims-of-Ukranian-military as doing war crimes too ?

3. The rest of your post is just your fanaticism.



Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506560008561045512
> ...maybe Putin has him tied to a nuclear missile



Not seen ? About five days ago he was at a military hospital in Russia, presenting awards to female and male Russian combatants who were injured in Ukraine. So please don't propagate lies.



Amliunion said:


> Not Elon, it's Elona



LOL, but why ?


----------



## sammuel

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506797100096393221




I have been watching this disturbing clips of people tied to polls for a while now. I do not think they are tied cause they are drug addicts , but most likely because they where looting.

Woman said " i will not do it again " , so she admits she has done something.

Maybe drug addicts maybe not , but some take the advantage of the fact that many houses are empty and deserted to loot.

Police is not present so citizens take the law into their own hands.

Just my assumption.

Anyone else thought ?


~


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506872697413853185

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Thinker3

LeGenD said:


> This article should settle this debate:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Horrific Mass Rape of German Women at the End of World War II
> 
> 
> The greatest mass rape in history — the liberators raped over 2 million women
> 
> 
> 
> 
> medium.com


This article just shows half part of the story, blaming only Soviets for the rapes while ignoring hundreds of thousands of rapes by the allies. This debate started when Jhungary shared this exact article, I think that reply is deleted now.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506838757059837952


----------



## Amliunion

Mariupol 03.23.2022: This girl was killed by the Ukronazis with a sniper bullet in the chest. They left the basement with their mother, father and brother to go to the buses. The mother was hurt. She later died in the hospital. Father with his younger brother by the hand in prostration went towards the gas station, where they are going to leave. "He didn't understand anything"

Four men carry a small coffin on the curtains, made from the doors of office cabinets. 




Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506874202028232707

Reactions: Sad Sad:
1 | Angry Angry:
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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506878038293811202

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Haha Haha:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506663502865485844


----------



## Amliunion

sammuel said:


> I have been watching this disturbing clips of people tied to polls for a while now. I do not think they are tied cause they are drug addicts , but most likely because they where looting.
> 
> Woman said " i will not do it again " , so she admits she has done something.
> 
> Maybe drug addicts maybe not , but some take the advantage of the fact that many houses are empty and deserted to loot.
> 
> Police is not present so citizens take the law into their own hands.
> 
> Just my assumption.
> 
> Anyone else thought ?
> 
> 
> ~



Don't assume, I can post Pictures/Videos of this happening in presence of Ukranian Army? This is happening in City of Lviv too, in presence of Police. What's your defense to this?



jamahir said:


> LOL, but why ?



I was using this Picture on my Twitter DP and just started using here as well.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506791813134360577

Ukrainian heroines are escorted to the last path, bowing before them!

In the Vinnytsia region they said goodbye to 21-year-old military Victoria Polishchuk. The defender died during the shelling of Russian hail on March 20.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506767664752078856


----------



## kingQamaR

lightning F57 said:


> This Avoz battalion sound like a terrorist organisation attracting terrorists from Europe, America and other parts of the world. A european Alqueda.
> 
> Whats ironic is Nato and the US funded and armed this terrorist outfit, putin now using the American playbook in Afghanistan and Iraq. What the reality is only god knows



One day you will know the truth, although I accept that it's entirely possible that you are lying and, when you do know the truth, you will find it hard to reconcile your words with what you have learned.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506774144884617222

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506772585647857672

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jamahir

Amliunion said:


> I was using this Picture on my Twitter DP and just started using here as well.



I see. You don't like him ?


----------



## The SC

The moment of launch of cruise missiles "Kaliber" from a ship of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506341033302503434


----------



## LeGenD

Thinker3 said:


> This article just shows half part of the story, blaming only Soviets for the rapes while ignoring hundreds of thousands of rapes by the allies.


Did you read the article carefully? I think not. Read it carefully and do not make false claims.









The Horrific Mass Rape of German Women at the End of World War II


The greatest mass rape in history — the liberators raped over 2 million women




medium.com













Silence Broken On Red Army Rapes In Germany


A new film and a groundbreaking study bring new attention to an issue long considered a taboo in Germany: the mass rape of women by Soviet Red Army soldiers. Historians believe some 2 million German women were raped after Soviet and Allied forces defeated Hitler's army in 1945.




www.npr.org













Evident Bias in Thomas J. Kehoe and E. James Kehoe, “Crimes Committed by U.S. Soldiers in Europe, 1945–1946”


Abstract. The horrifying record of rape by Soviet troops in postwar Germany has long been a matter of record. What is new is the argument that the behavior of American GIs in the European Theater of Operations was little better than that of the Russians. Inspired by a new study alleging that...




direct.mit.edu





All occupying forces in Germany did bad (not excusing any camp) *but* Soviets committed this crime on a much bigger scale. End of.

This is off-topic conversation by the way. Time to move on.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506705750881718272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506705753104658439

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506705755512184840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506705756841721861

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506775627294199815

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504896238826700800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504900443935281156

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504548846835314701

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Clutch



Reactions: Like Like:
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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506884642242281472

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506789441536466949


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506600801640329225

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506572187490267139

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506704380388679688


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506790441764761606

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506809206166462470


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506892565081165830


----------



## kingQamaR

thetutle said:


> lol, no, just no. Some critical thought is required here. If the average Joe can access these women through prostitution, so can the police agencies. Of course if you believe in the cabal of elites that facilitate all this, then nothing can be said. Noone can prove a negative so disproving that the west is run by a rapist cabal that do stuff like this is impossible.



Who ignored them? Their people were essentially re-educated, their country split into sectors and they have made considerable reparations since. Same cannot be said of Russia after WW2 can it?


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506894793200353282


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506711793963610122


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506895526544957447

Reactions: Like Like:
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## kingQamaR

just saw a report yesterday that Russia is quietly boosting the recruitment of both teenagers and those up to 60 yoa - offering the equivalent of 130 dollars a month. These are not the Red Army, they are the Russian army made up of untrained conscripts. The Red Army was the army of the Soviet Union, different beast altogether.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506699254944915462



Spoiler: Graphic



https://twitter.com/erfanyousafzai/status/1506704294501920773


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506874776677146624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506886581323448322


----------



## kingQamaR

Stalin gave complete approval for what the Red Army did in Konigsberg Prussia 1945-1948. It is considered one of the worst civilian war atrocities in history for what they did to the population. !50,000 civilians in 1945 and about 20,000 left in 1948 after the Russians were done with them.

So don't tell me that the Kremlin doesn't know what they are doing. They do. Stalin only stopped it when stories were starting to get out of the carnage


----------



## Clutch




----------



## jhungary

jamahir said:


> 1. Why have you written French reporter in quotes ? And if you don't believe her then you wouldn't also have believed the British journalist Lizzie Phelan who in Libya in 2011 and reported on the crimes of the NATO-created Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood.
> 
> 2. So now other than accusing the Russian military of war crimes you are now accusing the Donetsk-victims-of-Ukranian-military as doing war crimes too ?
> 
> 3. The rest of your post is just your fanaticism.
> 
> 
> 
> Not seen ? About five days ago he was at a military hospital in Russia, presenting awards to female and male Russian combatants who were injured in Ukraine. So please don't propagate lies.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, but why ?


1.)don't go offtopic, we are not talkign about Libya or Iraq, we are talking about Ukraine.
2.) Everyone had done war crime, stop pretending the Eastern Rebel is a saint
3.) LOL

I am sure this woman and her child both were Ukrainian soldier in disguise 







And I am sure this building is just a military depot.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

Spoiler





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505583611843592192


----------



## LeGenD

Fact-checking sources for reference.

REPORT (5 Disinformation Narratives about the war in Ukraine) in following link:









5 Disinformation Narratives about the war in Ukraine


Insights highlighting the main disinformation trends related to the war in Ukraine will be published once a week.




edmo.eu





General fact-checking updates in following link:









#DisinfoChronicle. Kremlin disinformation about the military offensive in Ukraine


Detector Media collects and documents real-time chronicles of the Kremlin disinformation about the Russian invasion. Ukraine for decades has been suffering from Kremlin disinformation. Here we document all narratives, messages, and tactics, which Russia is using from February 17th, 2022...




detector.media


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506897016013701124

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## -=virus=-

LeGenD said:


> Let us do the math here.
> 
> 1. Russians have lost more (regular) troops and equipment in Ukraine in 4 weeks than Americans in several countries in 20 years.
> 
> 2. Americans conducted military operations on a much bigger scale than Russia ever did. NATO fought and dismantled Al-Qaeda Networks and the sort in several countries. NATO also took over Iraq in a blitzkrieg and closed the chapter of Saddam Hussein and his political system. NATO closed the chapter of Qaddafi administration in Libya as well. The so-called War On Terror lasted 20 years and was concluded in 2021.



Sure : )

"lost more (regular) troops and equipment in Ukraine in 4 weeks than Americans in several countries in 20 years."

- how on earth does one go about substantiating that ? sorry, that just sounds like a lot of hyperbole.

we all saw just how much equipment they left strewn around after their hasty retreat from A-stan when the Talibs paraded with them. If I'm not wrong, there are credible estimates on just what and how much they left there.

The equipment the NATO contingent brought into that theatre drawfed whatever the Russians are throwing at Ukraine, at least so far.

------------------



LeGenD said:


> I admit that a modern war is NOT easy to fight but Indians and Russians have something in common - much talk but a lot less to show on the ground.










LeGenD said:


> Russia can fight one war at a time and there are some countries which can defeat it in a conventional war - not many but some. Pakistan might be able to handle Russia in a conventional war as well.


We can speculate on scenarios, and I'd broadly agree that the US can defeat Russia on paper, and maybe in a real scenario as well but it depends which ground. They (Russians) don't have a chance on the high seas or far from home base but at home, like they are now in the case of the plains of Donbass and Ukraine.

Lets stick to this conflict for now but credit where its due, Pak did well in the old Afghan war but it was a cog to the bigger wheel.. it was mostly John Rambo who won that single-handedly (with a little help from his friends)




LeGenD said:


> USA is best equipped to fight a conventional war in the world and it is preparing to fight a nuclear war as well. USA is already capable of defeating a regional nuclear power in a war.



On paper, things tend to play out differently in the real world.


----------



## Amliunion

jhungary said:


> I am sure this woman and her child both were Ukrainian soldier in disguise
> 
> View attachment 826791
> 
> 
> And I am sure this building is just a military depot.


The women you are referring to is alive.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506897450287738885


----------



## Thinker3

LeGenD said:


> Fact-checking sources for reference.
> 
> REPORT (5 Disinformation Narratives about the war in Ukraine) in following link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5 Disinformation Narratives about the war in Ukraine
> 
> 
> Insights highlighting the main disinformation trends related to the war in Ukraine will be published once a week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edmo.eu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> General fact-checking updates in following link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #DisinfoChronicle. Kremlin disinformation about the military offensive in Ukraine
> 
> 
> Detector Media collects and documents real-time chronicles of the Kremlin disinformation about the Russian invasion. Ukraine for decades has been suffering from Kremlin disinformation. Here we document all narratives, messages, and tactics, which Russia is using from February 17th, 2022...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> detector.media


Fact-Checking by the West and Western institutions, amazing, who is going to fact-check Western Narrative? we have seen how this fact-checking works, anything against the western narrative is a lie and fake.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506901116189085699


----------



## Clutch

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505583611843592192


----------



## LeGenD

Problem of some members:

1. Partake in offtopic conversations.

2. Disregard sources when corrected.

3. Cautioned about going offtopic but do not heed statements to this effect.

4. Accuse Mods of being misusing authority when they decide to remove offtopic posts.

This won't fly with me. My suggestion is simple: Respect Forum Rules. I will not bend them for a member who doesn't know when to apply breaks.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Clutch

Nazi Ukranian doing genocide 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505583770136625156
More Ukranian genocide.... Western media will never show this...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505583808443265030

Reactions: Angry Angry:
2


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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506901993142603779


----------



## Clutch

Modern day Crucifixion by Ukrainian Nazis 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505583901519106054

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505583994267705348

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1 | Angry Angry:
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## jhungary

Amliunion said:


> The women you are referring to is alive.


Dude, I was refer to the bombing, I didn't say she was dead in the attack. Unlike the next photo

She and her kids died tho, That probably will appear in Russian news as two enemy combatant.


----------



## Clutch

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505584094515707914


----------



## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## LeGenD

Thinker3 said:


> Fact-Checking by the West and Western institutions, amazing, who is going to fact-check Western Narrative? we have seen how this fact-checking works, anything against the western narrative is a lie and fake


What is up with you honestly? Do you have Westophobia or something? You are *not* bringing any value to this thread. You need to get a grip on yourself.

Russians are victimizing a poor country on bad pretexts and you are making excuses for them. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Thinker3

LeGenD said:


> What is up with you honestly? Do you have Westophobia or something? You are *not* bringing any value to this thread. You need to get a grip on yourself.


I am just unbiased and speak the truth and truth is far from what the west preaches.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Amliunion

jhungary said:


> Dude, I was refer to the bombing, I didn't say she was dead in the attack. Unlike the next photo
> 
> She and her kids died tho, That probably will appear in Russian news as two enemy combatant.
> 
> View attachment 826793



Yeah, you were referring to bombing. How completely, you've ignored that Ukranians aren't fighting Gorilla Warfare & fighting from Civilian Area's?


----------



## coffee_cup

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506717838408527874



He should go to Ukraine to boost the morale of Ukrainian people and send a strong signal to Russia.

At the very least, he should do that even if no active NATO participation in the war.


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506905590798471169


----------



## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506907217290678273


----------



## jhungary

Amliunion said:


> Yeah, you were referring to bombing. How completely, you've ignored that Ukranians aren't fighting Gorilla Warfare & fighting from Civilian Area's?


Gorilla Warfare??







Also Hospital are banned target, it is a "refuge" and attacking it is against International Law. You cannot bombard Structure that clearly marked as "Civilian" in war. This is also an permanent structure, not a field hospital or a hospital camp that just set up days ago, this hospital has been there since 1980

As I said, this is NOT some soldier ordering artillery strike outside the hospital after they saw some shady character gets in. This is an airstrike with dumb munition, which mean either Russia do not know (Which is negligence as All Hospital should have been marked on any war map) or they just don't care. just because you are fighting a guerrilla warfare (Not Gorilla, Guerrilla come from the Spanish word "Guerra" - War) doesn't make anything legitimate target


----------



## SIPRA

coffee_cup said:


> He should go to Ukraine to boost the morale of Ukrainian people and send a strong signal to Russia.



Many Republicans would support your proposal. Rather, they would like him to go straight to Mariupol. That seems to be the only way to get rid of a senile President.


----------



## 8888888888888

mmr said:


> Renault suspends Russian business after Zelensky's speech • FRANCE 24 English​


Going to be nationalised by Russia

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## Amliunion

jhungary said:


> Gorilla Warfare??
> 
> View attachment 826802
> 
> 
> Also Hospital are banned target, it is a "refuge" and attacking it is against *International Law*. You cannot bombard Structure that clearly marked as "Civilian" in war. This is also an permanent structure, not a field hospital or a hospital camp that just set up days ago, this hospital has been there since 1980
> 
> As I said, this is NOT some soldier ordering artillery strike outside the hospital after they saw some shady character gets in. This is an airstrike with dumb munition, which mean either Russia do not know (Which is negligence as All Hospital should have been marked on any war map) or they just don't care. just because you are fighting a guerrilla warfare (Not Gorilla, Guerrilla come from the Spanish word "Guerra" - War) doesn't make anything legitimate target



US & NATO been breaking International Law from how many decades? If Ukranian Army will hide in Hospital, it will be bombed.


US/NATO bombing of Iraq for more than a month upheld the International Laws:






Carry on with your Preachy!

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## Amliunion

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506910937537781765

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## jhungary

Amliunion said:


> US & NATO been breaking International Law from how many decades? If Ukranian Army will hide in Hospital, it will be bombed.
> 
> 
> US/NATO bombing of Iraq for more than a month upheld the International Laws:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carry on with your Preachy!


Again, this isn't some guy hanging around in front of the hospital who can tell who walk inside and who didn't. This is a dumb strike, which mean you don't know if there are Ukrainian soldier in that hospital.

That is the different. Mistake can be made, but you will have to know there is a mistake to be made. Not when you don't even bother to ID your target. 

But well, strike like that only piss off the Ukrainian, I mean if Putin think they can win a war that way, then he is more delusion than I thought.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

LeGenD said:


> I admit that a modern war is NOT easy to fight but Indians and Russians have something in common - much talk but a lot less to show on the ground.


your country was destroyed by India in every single war. Pakistan has not won a war in its entire history. Even today India provokes you 24/7. Chinese can joke about India because we've earned it. Not sure if you have.


----------



## jhungary

SIPRA said:


> Many Republicans would support your proposal. Rather, they would like him to go straight to Mariupol. That seems to be the only way to get rid of a senile President.


You do know if Russia is killing a sitting US president, that equal to WW3, right? 

I am pretty sure the Republican are not that dumb.


----------



## LeGenD

Thinker3 said:


> I am just unbiased and speak the truth and truth is far from what the west preaches.



You have divine knowledge or something? Learn to be humble and do not make tall claims like these.

What does the West preach? You are casting the entire Western hemisphere in negative light on the basis of your own biased mindset. The same West has given much (and taught much) to the entire world in modern times. 

Western Fact-checking sources have exposed propaganda efforts of all countries involved including India from time-to-time. 









Indian Chronicles: deep dive into a 15-year operation targeting the EU and UN to serve Indian interests - EU DisinfoLab


by Gary Machado Alexandre Alaphilippe, Roman Adamczyk and Antoine Grégoire Following a preliminary investigation published in 2019, the EU DisinfoLab uncovered a massive operation targeting international institutions and serving Indian interests. “Indian Chronicles” – the name we gave to this...




www.disinfo.eu





Thread 'No evidence of the loss of an F-16' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/no-evidence-of-the-loss-of-an-f-16.618802/

This is why I respect them. 

Western environments are democratic and allow independent Fact-checking practices. Try this in Russia and see what happens.

For perspective, Russians are not allowed to protest and challenge state-based narrative of Russian invasion of Ukraine:









Независимый правозащитный медиа-проект ОВД-Инфо


ОВД-Инфо, ОВД Инфо, OVD-Info, протесты, акция, задержание, обыск, арест, свобода собраний, политпрессинг, мониторинг, горячая линия, юристы, юридическая помощь, правозащита, правозащитники, пикет,…




ovdinfo.org





Over 15000 arrested and counting...

Numerous Russian media personalities have resigned recently due to lack of freedom:









Russian journalists quit their jobs on pro-Kremlin TV channels


Top Russian TV presenter Liliya Gildeyeva, 45, who was a leading anchor on Gazprom-Media's NTV channel since 2006 has quit the slavishly pro-Kremlin channel after 'no to war' message.



www.dailymail.co.uk





Deep down many countries have realities which they do not want *YOU* to see.

You need to open your eyes and see the entire world for what it is instead of trying to put down the West as a whole. You are (and will remain) biased otherwise.

2. You did not present evidence of your claims. You dismiss sources that challenge your narrative of any topic. You argue for the sake of argument. This is NOT how conversations are supposed to work.

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## lightning F57

kingQamaR said:


> One day you will know the truth, although I accept that it's entirely possible that you are lying and, when you do know the truth, you will find it hard to reconcile your words with what you have learned.


Dont know why the mod is trigger happy deleting my post under a false accusation. The avoz funding by US/NATO and weapons supply is documented and available for everyone to read online.

Also I gave my opinion on what I have come across and read so no idea what your talking about lying etc.

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## Thinker3

FairAndUnbiased said:


> your country was destroyed by India in every single war. Pakistan has not won a war in its entire history. Even today India provokes you 24/7. Chinese can joke about India because we've earned it. Not sure if you have.


Hey Brother don't mistake him to be Pakistani and then turn your hate toward Pakistan just because of what he says. I think he is American just using the Pakistani Flag.
And I disagree with you what you said about Pakistan. Pakistan only lost one war to India in 71, and I can prove that all other wars were victories of Pakistan.

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## Amliunion

jhungary said:


> Again, this isn't some guy hanging around in front of the hospital who can tell who walk inside and who didn't. This is a dumb strike, which mean you don't know if there are Ukrainian soldier in that hospital.
> 
> That is the different. Mistake can be made, but you will have to know there is a mistake to be made. Not when you don't even bother to ID your target.
> 
> But well, strike like that only piss off the Ukrainian, I mean if Putin think they can win a war that way, then he is more delusion than I thought.



In US/NATO's term what do you call them Collateral damage? When they bomb everything standing in the Country, it's Kosher but will lecture others. 



On Topic:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506911813627224065

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## Thinker3

LeGenD said:


> You have divine knowledge or something? Learn to be humble and do not make tall claims like these.
> 
> What does the West preach? You are casting the entire Western hemisphere in negative light on the basis of your own biased mindset. The same West has given much (and taught much) to the entire world in modern times.
> 
> Western Fact-checking sources have exposed propaganda efforts of all countries involved including India from time-to-time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian Chronicles: deep dive into a 15-year operation targeting the EU and UN to serve Indian interests - EU DisinfoLab
> 
> 
> by Gary Machado Alexandre Alaphilippe, Roman Adamczyk and Antoine Grégoire Following a preliminary investigation published in 2019, the EU DisinfoLab uncovered a massive operation targeting international institutions and serving Indian interests. “Indian Chronicles” – the name we gave to this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.disinfo.eu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thread 'No evidence of the loss of an F-16' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/no-evidence-of-the-loss-of-an-f-16.618802/
> 
> This is why I respect them.
> 
> Western environments are democratic and allow independent Fact-checking practices. Try this in Russia and see what happens.
> 
> For perspective, Russians are not allowed to protest and challenge state-based narrative of Russian invasion of Ukraine:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Независимый правозащитный медиа-проект ОВД-Инфо
> 
> 
> ОВД-Инфо, ОВД Инфо, OVD-Info, протесты, акция, задержание, обыск, арест, свобода собраний, политпрессинг, мониторинг, горячая линия, юристы, юридическая помощь, правозащита, правозащитники, пикет,…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ovdinfo.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over 15000 arrested and counting...
> 
> Numerous Russian media personalities have resigned recently due to lack of freedom:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian journalists quit their jobs on pro-Kremlin TV channels
> 
> 
> Top Russian TV presenter Liliya Gildeyeva, 45, who was a leading anchor on Gazprom-Media's NTV channel since 2006 has quit the slavishly pro-Kremlin channel after 'no to war' message.
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deep down many countries have realities which they do not want *YOU* to see.
> 
> You need to open your eyes and see the entire world for what it is instead of trying to put down the West as a whole. You are (and will remain) biased otherwise.
> 
> 2. You did not present evidence of your claims. You dismiss sources that challenge your narrative of any topic. You argue for the sake of argument. This is NOT how conversations are supposed to work.


I will not reply or should I say I cannot reply to this because you will remove my reply. so just assume that I objected and argued to what you said with logic and proof.

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## jhungary

Amliunion said:


> In US/NATO's term what do you call them Collateral damage? When they bomb everything standing in the Country, it's Kosher but will lecture others.
> 
> 
> 
> On Topic:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506911813627224065


Dude, you are really ignorant, I hope you know that.

Collateral Damage is when you saw a soldier enter into a house, then you call in your coordinate and strike that house, turn out there are a few women and children that was inside that house along with the soldier, that's collateral damage.

What Russia did is call in a dumb strike on target without verifying the target, that's indiscriminate bombing. Not collateral damage, were there Russian observer outside the hospital calling the strike? Were there any evidence that they can show that building were used by the Ukrainian Military? 

I don't see Russia show proof on either of those. and then you go


----------



## Amliunion

jhungary said:


> Dude, you are really ignorant, I hope you know that.
> 
> Collateral Damage is when you saw a soldier enter into a house, then you call in your coordinate and strike that house, turn out there are a few women and children that was inside that house along with the soldier, that's collateral damage.
> 
> What Russia did is call in a dumb strike on target without verifying the target, that's indiscriminate bombing. Not collateral damage, were there Russian observer outside the hospital calling the strike? Were there any evidence that they can show that building were used by the Ukrainian Military?
> 
> I don't see Russia show proof on either of those. and then you go



Care to explain this, Dumb strike, Genocide etc.,? 







On Topic:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506913149794111490

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## Amliunion

Ukranians are not agreeing with US/NATO's # of 40-50K fatalities/Injuries to Russian Soldiers:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506919174257397765

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## Paul2

LeGenD said:


> Problem of some members:
> 
> 1. Partake in offtopic conversations.
> 
> 2. Disregard sources when corrected.
> 
> 3. Cautioned about going offtopic but do not heed statements to this effect.
> 
> 4. Accuse Mods of being misusing authority when they decide to remove offtopic posts.
> 
> This won't fly with me. My suggestion is simple: Respect Forum Rules. I will not bend them for a member who doesn't know when to apply breaks.



Do something with twitterspam please

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## jhungary

Amliunion said:


> Care to explain this, Dumb strike, Genocide etc.,?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Topic:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506913149794111490


Dude, there are SOF and Observer on the ground calling out those strike. Dude, I was there on the ground when this go down.. I have probably personally called one of those strike.

Can you tell me if there are any Russian observer calling in those strike?

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## LeGenD

lightning F57 said:


> Dont know why the mod is trigger happy deleting my post under a false accusation. The avoz funding by US/NATO and weapons supply is documented and available for everyone to read online.


You declared Azov group a terrorist organization on your own; you equated it with Al-Qaeda Network on your own. You declared people who volunteered to fight for Ukraine as terrorists on your own. You are overreaching in your critic here. Your post was removed on the grounds of being unproductive.

Check information in following posts:

Post in thread 'Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/post-13596480

Post in thread 'Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/post-13608691

Post in thread 'Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/post-13621199

Post in thread 'Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/post-13624243

Nobody here is a fan of Azov and the sort but you need to get a grip on yourself and try to be sensible and fair in your critic and judgements.

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## Hack-Hook

WotTen said:


> While there is no disputing that the Russian offensive has stalled, one of the reasons the Ukrainians are still resisting is that the Russians are not doing indiscriminate bombing of civilians in Ukraine as they did in Chechnya and Syria.
> 
> Russia knows that the Western media will not shrug off mass civilians deaths in Europe as they do in other parts of the world.


The indiscriminate bombing of civilians in Syria was done by Syrian themselves and jihadis not russians


----------



## Amliunion

jhungary said:


> Dude, there are SOF on the ground calling out those strike. Dude, I was there on the ground when this go down..
> 
> Can you tell me if there are any Russian observer calling in those strike?



Prove it that the called SOF were on Ground calling out those strike. Share any News Link, not your figment of your imagination.

On Topic:

Frames of objective control of the destruction of the anti-aircraft missile system of the Armed Forces of Ukraine by high-precision ammunition:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506920701193854985

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## bobo6661

Amliunion said:


> Ukranians are not agreeing with US/NATO's # of 40-50K fatalities/Injuries to Russian Soldiers:


Because it only the number of killed they claim in that twitt 😂


----------



## jhungary

Amliunion said:


> On Topic:
> 
> Frames of objective control of the destruction of the anti-aircraft missile system of the Armed Forces of Ukraine by high-precision ammunition:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506920701193854985


Taking it as a "no"?


----------



## Amliunion

jhungary said:


> Taking it as a "no"?


Prove it that the called SOF were on Ground calling out those strike. Share News Link, not your figment of your imagination.



bobo6661 said:


> Because it only the number of killed they claim 😂


This is 'The Ghost of Claim'.

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## bobo6661

Amliunion said:


> This is 'The Ghost of Claim'.


Same like there is no war from putler


----------



## Amliunion

bobo6661 said:


> Same like there is no war from putler



I admit their is a Proxy War been fought between Russia and US/NATO on Ukrainian soil. Ukrainians are been used as the Bait.

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## Vergennes

LMAO


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506921717440073728


----------



## bobo6661

Amliunion said:


> I admit their is a Proxy War been fought between Russia and US/NATO on Ukrainian soil. Ukrainians are been used as the Bait.


Let me quote your greatest and bestest sworses lavrov

"We do not plan to attack other countries; we did not attack Ukraine either" 

Im done with russian sources


----------



## Vergennes

BlindEagle said:


> используйте кириллицу в следующий раз, пидар
> 
> You wrote «у вас есть меню на руки»
> What are you trying to imply by asking if I have a menu on my hand? Without context your question if I can call it that, is gibberish.
> Stick to india or you’ll get thrashed by the polish border guards like your countrymen and women did at polish border 😂



LMAO,look how he changed his country flag to Russia... 

Using google translator will not make you a Russian  @Amliunion


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506925153682444290

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## Amliunion

bobo6661 said:


> Let me quote your greatest and bestest sworses lavrov
> 
> "We do not plan to attack other countries; we did not attack Ukraine either"
> 
> Im done with russian sources



Proxy War: NATO going to fight Russia until the last standing Ukrainian.

I am done with explaining.


----------



## jhungary

Amliunion said:


> Prove it that the called SOF were on Ground calling out those strike. Share News Link, not your figment of your imagination.
> 
> 
> This is 'The Ghost of Claim'.


lol, I asked you first.

Also, this is not an Iraq thread, you want to ask how people call in coordinate, go open another thread and I am more than happy to show you some youtube video on how US ground det team kick Iraqi *** using tac air.


----------



## Amliunion

Vergennes said:


> LMAO,look how he changed his country flag to Russia...
> 
> Using google translator will not make you a Russian  @Amliunion
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506925153682444290



I can upload my Video/Audio replying to your posts in Russian. 

What happened to the Boiling Situation?

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## Vergennes

Flying turrets as we love them. ♥


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506924842884472833
Meanwhile Ukrainians claimed it used Tochka to target Russian warships at Berdyansk port.


----------



## WotTen

jhungary said:


> Collateral Damage is when you saw a soldier enter into a house, then you call in your coordinate and strike that house, turn out there are a few women and children that was inside that house along with the soldier, that's collateral damage.



To be more precise, collateral damage is 'proportionally acceptable' civilian loss to achieve a military objective.





__





Customary IHL - 14. Proportionality in Attack


14. Proportionality in Attack



ihl-databases.icrc.org





_The US Air Force Commander’s Handbook (1980) states that “a weapon is not unlawful simply because its use may cause incidental or collateral casualties to civilians, as long as those casualties are not foreseeably excessive in light of the expected military advantage”.





_
Democratic governments need to be more mindful of public relations while autocratic governments can just shrug off civilian deaths.

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## Amliunion

jhungary said:


> lol, I asked you first.


It doesn't exsits. Hence, you cannot provide.  Carry on with your Fair Tales!


----------



## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> LMAO,look how he changed his country flag to Russia...
> 
> Using google translator will not make you a Russian  @Amliunion
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506925153682444290


lol, that guy said he is going to fight for Russia if Russia call upon him.

Sure, fight the war over the internet from the safety of his home in India, probably at his day job as a Indian call center operator.

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## Vergennes

Amliunion said:


> I can upload my Video/Audio replying to your posts in Russian.
> 
> What happened to the Boiling Situation?



You are an Indian who suddenly out of nowhere is claiming to be Russian because using google translator,who are you trying to fool ? 

If you think that using google translator then using the literal translation in latin letters will make you a Russian.


----------



## jhungary

WotTen said:


> To be more precise, collateral damage is 'proportionally acceptable' civilian loss to achieve a military objective.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Customary IHL - 14. Proportionality in Attack
> 
> 
> 14. Proportionality in Attack
> 
> 
> 
> ihl-databases.icrc.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _The US Air Force Commander’s Handbook (1980) states that “a weapon is not unlawful simply because its use may cause incidental or collateral casualties to civilians, as long as those casualties are not foreseeably excessive in light of the expected military advantage”.
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> Democratic governments need to be more mindful of public relations while autocratic governments can just shrug off civilian deaths.


That's actually what I said, I just use an example to illustrate what is Collateral Casualty. 

You are allowed some degree of "Civilian Casualty" given if you have perform all the necessary step to prevent them, this is not the case in those Russia strike tho.


----------



## Amliunion

jhungary said:


> lol, that guy said he is going to fight for Russia if Russia call upon him.
> 
> Sure, fight the war over the internet from the safety of his home in India, probably at his day job as a Indian call center operator.


You are fighting US information Warfare on PDF from Australia.



Vergennes said:


> You are an Indian who suddenly out of nowhere is claiming to be Russian because using google translator,who are you trying to fool ?
> 
> If you think that using google translator then using the literal translation in latin letters will make you a Russian.


Russian of Indian origin.


----------



## jhungary

Amliunion said:


> You are fighting US information Warfare on PDF from Australia.
> 
> 
> Russian of Indian origin.


Dude, me and you are different, I WAS an US Army intelligence officer. You were never in the military.

Only you would think you and I are equal.

LOL


----------



## Hack-Hook

thetutle said:


> lets measure it by tones of explosives delivered on target.
> 
> If Israel delivered onto gaza the amount of explosives that russia has so far delivered onto Ukraine, we would no have a gaza issue to worry about anymore.


Well let just say there is reason there is cluster weapon


----------



## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> You are an Indian who suddenly out of nowhere is claiming to be Russian because using google translator,who are you trying to fool ?
> 
> If you think that using google translator then using the literal translation in latin letters will make you a Russian.


lol, now he is an "Russian with Indian origin".......

That's directly contradict to what he said before "If Russia is calling for "INTERNATIONAL" help, he is going to fight for Russia" so suddenly he is now a Russian in a matter of weeks......

That mighty quick if I have to say so...

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## bobo6661

jhungary said:


> Sure, fight the war over the internet from the safety of his home in India, probably at his day job as a Indian call center operator.


Yee they are good at scamming old people


----------



## Amliunion

jhungary said:


> Dude, me and you are different, I WAS a information warfare officer. You were never in the military.
> 
> Only you would think you and I are equal.
> 
> LOL



Lmao. That's what you are doing here 'Spreading US information WareFare'. However, can't provide links of so called SOF were on Ground calling out strikes in Iraq.

Like you I never claimed to fight in Afghanistan, Libya, Mars, Jupiter etc..

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## jhungary

bobo6661 said:


> Yee they are good at scamming old people


I always wonder what's scam call is like in India. I mean, would they scam call their own people??

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## Vergennes

jhungary said:


> lol, now he is an "Russian with Indian origin".......
> 
> That's directly contradict to what he said before "If Russia is calling for "INTERNATIONAL" help, he is going to fight for Russia" so suddenly he is now a Russian in a matter of weeks......
> 
> That mighty quick if I have to say so...












​75 Russian Phrases Every Language Learner Should Know​








75 Russian Phrases Every Language Learner Should Know


Learn how to ask for directions, order at restaurants, greet people, get around, and more with this list of essential Russian phrases.




www.thoughtco.com





LMAO.

When are we sanctioning this impostor ? @LeGenD

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## jhungary

Amliunion said:


> Lmao. That's why you are doing here 'Spreading Information WareFare'. However, can't provide links of so called SOF were on Ground calling out strikes in Iraq.
> 
> Like you I never claimed to fight in Afghanistan, Libya, Mars, Jupiter etc..


First of all, I asked you first, so by courtesy, you need to show proof to me first.

Second of all, as if those Forward Operator video were not at all "All over Youtube" already. 

And finally, yes, you are just a Call Center operator, so yes, I expect you have never left India. 

LOL

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## sammuel

Amliunion said:


> Don't assume, I can post Pictures/Videos of this happening in presence of Ukranian Army? This is happening in City of Lviv too, in presence of Police. What's your defense to this?



It is you who have no idea what is behind it so invent stuff cause it suit your agenda.


----------



## jhungary

Amliunion said:


> You are the Keyboard Warrior and support Ukraine. If Russia ask people from across the Globe to fight for her, I will.
> 
> The common denomination between Taliban, Alqueda, ISIS-Daesh etc., is also founded by US.





Vergennes said:


> View attachment 826818
> 
> View attachment 826819
> 
> ​75 Russian Phrases Every Language Learner Should Know​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 75 Russian Phrases Every Language Learner Should Know
> 
> 
> Learn how to ask for directions, order at restaurants, greet people, get around, and more with this list of essential Russian phrases.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thoughtco.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO.
> 
> When are we sanctioning this impostor ? @LeGenD


lol, see how he refer himself as "People across the globe" to now being a Russian of Indian Origin??

Am sure you can get Russian citizenship in just 4 days.....

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## Ich

jhungary said:


> Am sure you can get Russian citizenship in just 8 days.....



No.


----------



## Hack-Hook

dBSPL said:


> 20 Bayraktar TB2s have been downed so far. All visual evidence can be seen in the photo.


What is it, does it belong to tb2? why there is a panel of indicators there


----------



## jhungary

Ich said:


> No.


Are you for real cannot see I am being sarcastic on that? And you think that require a reply??


----------



## sal29

lightning F57 said:


> Dont know why the mod is trigger happy deleting my post under a false accusation. The avoz funding by US/NATO and weapons supply is documented and available for everyone to read online.
> 
> Also I gave my opinion on what I have come across and read so no idea what your talking about lying etc.



Man same thing happened to me and I was banned. I complained but no replies there as well. Maybe it is time to seek alternative forums. Unilateral removal of post which don't fit a certain narrative is going on here a lot but yea not much can be done regarding that. As per forum rules you should not complain here but complain at General Headquarters. Good Luck

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## Ich

jhungary said:


> Are you for real cannot see I am being sarcastic on that? And you think that require a reply??


Well, there are so much posts from you which i firstly categorized as "sarkastic" or "joke", but meanwhile i think it isnt ment this way by you. So...

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## Musings

Amliunion said:


> Lmao. That's what you are doing here 'Spreading US information WareFare'. However, can't provide links of so called SOF were on Ground calling out strikes in Iraq.
> 
> Like you I never claimed to fight in Afghanistan, Libya, Mars, Jupiter etc..




Every other post he puts on here is attempting to belittle or disrespect fellow members. You would think he was solely responsible for every war the Americans have created or been involved with. Remember all armies need pawns and yes men. People like him suck up to big wigs just to get that precious "pat on the back". Sharing knowledge and opinion respectfully and showing respect doesnt cost. By the way his grasp of the English knowledge is similar to my 7 year old. Shockingly poor. 

Let me give you my 2 cents for what its worth. 

Before the war commenced - Zelensky was proven to be as corrupt as those he replaced by shifting billions of his acquired personal wealth off shore just like the oligarths.
He has literally* banned* or removes all opposition from parliament - yet allows the *Nazi* element to *thrive* - not banning them but allowing them to thrive. Let that sink in. 
Incorporating them into the army by giving them their own battalion. Allowing them to incorporate their Nazi insignia to shine brightly on their chests. 
Aligning with Nazis in Ukraine is as ridiculous as like aligning with ISIS in Syria to defeat Assad. 

I - like any normal friend of this earth want peace - and like most on here believe Putin is ruthless and no angel - however lets look at this objectively. Zelensky aint to innocent party. 
He needs to get off his high horse and stop being a drummer boy trying to beg bully and shout at the west to do more and create potentially a third world war. Accept the terms and conditions stipulated and back down. Compromise and move on. If he doesnt - there is no winners and more lives will be lost. 

By the way lets not forget - how foreign students with brown skin were treated. I will not forget those Indian students being refused entry into Poland and treated by Ukranian officials like dirt on their shoes. We must not forget.

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## thetutle

Ivan Krastev on Russia's Invasion of Ukraine: "Putin Lives in Historic Analogies and Metaphors"


Political scientist Ivan Krastev is an astute observer of Vladimir Putin. In an interview, he speaks of the Russian president's isolation, his understanding of Russian history and how he has become a prisoner of his own rhetoric.




www.spiegel.de

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## mmr

8888888888888 said:


> Going to be nationalised by Russia


Good luck lol


----------



## bobo6661

Musings said:


> He has literally* banned* or removes all opposition from parliament - yet allows the *Nazi* element to *thrive* - not banning them but allowing them to thrive. Let that sink in.
> Incorporating them into the army by giving them their own battalion. Allowing them to incorporate their Nazi insignia to shine brightly on their chests.
> Aligning with Nazis in Ukraine is as ridiculous as like aligning with ISIS in Syria to defeat Assad.


Its obvius why he ban them and who
"The National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine decided to ban the activity of Opposition Party — For Life, Shariy Party, Nashi, Opposition Bloc, Left Opposition, Union of Left Forces, State, Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine, Socialist Party of Ukraine, Socialists Party and Volodymyr Saldo Bloc, Zelensky said"








Ukraine to ban 11 political parties with ties to Russia


"Any activity of politicians aimed at splitting or collaborating will not succeed," Zelensky said.




www.axios.com





And you had to be a moron to disolve azow when a potencial invasion of russia is real ... like those nuts will fight to death of course he will not get ride of them...

Azow only exist thx to russia

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## coffee_cup

Amliunion said:


> Lmao. That's what you are doing here 'Spreading US information WareFare'. However, can't provide links of so called SOF were on Ground calling out strikes in Iraq.
> 
> Like you I never claimed to fight in Afghanistan, Libya, Mars, Jupiter etc..


Sometimes I have a feeling that behind his nick there are multiple users... or he himself has this Multiple Personality Disorder, :-D

Each one living in his own imaginary world. So depending on which one is currently logged on, he becomes "intelligence officer", "astronaut", "marine", "economist", "medical doctor" and what not, LOL.


In the meanwhile, the Ruble has gone up against $.

In other developments, Germany says Russia is violating the contract by asking to pay in Ruble. What will be the possible outcome of this?


----------



## mmr

Vergennes said:


> LMAO,look how he changed his country flag to Russia...
> 
> Using google translator will not make you a Russian  @Amliunion
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506925153682444290


That is fucking hillarious i notice it too

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## coffee_cup

Vergennes said:


> When are we sanctioning this impostor ? @LeGenD



With same logic @jhungary should also be sanctioned. He is also using the Chinese flag, even though he is not a Chinese or living in China.

So let it be and lets continue discussing the topic on hand.

@LeGenD

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## thetutle

Putin's war and the Chaos Climbers


Why pro-Russia narratives are uniting -- and exposing -- all the worst people




noahpinion.substack.com





The new global divide is democracy vs authoritarianism. 

The westerners supporting russia are would be autocrats who think authoritarian governments are more efficient and successful. 

The large amount of muslims supporting him may do it for the same reason. At least half of all muslims live in dictatorships and think this is a good idea. 

The system which generates more high tech and wealth will ultimately win. We shall see one day who is right


----------



## Vergennes

bobo6661 said:


> Its obvius why he ban them and who
> "The National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine decided to ban the activity of Opposition Party — For Life, Shariy Party, Nashi, Opposition Bloc, Left Opposition, Union of Left Forces, State, Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine, Socialist Party of Ukraine, Socialists Party and Volodymyr Saldo Bloc, Zelensky said"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine to ban 11 political parties with ties to Russia
> 
> 
> "Any activity of politicians aimed at splitting or collaborating will not succeed," Zelensky said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.axios.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you had to be a moron to disolve azow when a potencial invasion of russia is real ... like those nuts will fight to death of course he will not get ride of them...
> 
> Azow only exist thx to russia



Ukraine is fighting a war for its survival against a much more powerful nation,of course every spectrum of the society will take arms to defend their country,from far leftists to moderates to far rightists and what not. 

I understand though why Russia is targeting Azov because they are suitting their BS narrative of "denazification" because some dudes have nazi tatoos or harbor nazi flags (Just like many Wagner operatives) and because they are literally trashing the Russian army on the field.

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## coffee_cup

Ukranian foreign minister Dymetro Kuleba says, EU should not pay for gas in Ruble because it would be humiliating. And that Europeans should make a wise and responsible decision regarding this.


----------



## mmr

coffee_cup said:


> With same logic @jhungary should also be sanctioned. He is also using the Chinese flag, even though he is not a Chinese or living in China.
> 
> So let it be and lets continue discussing the topic on hand.


His posts are moatly sensible. 

U expect every Chinese to have same opinion lol.

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## Wood




----------



## coffee_cup

mmr said:


> His posts are moatly sensible.
> 
> U expect every Chinese to have same opinion lol.



Lets not derail the topic here. There is a dedicated thread about that, feel free to go there and discuss it.

In the meanwhile, according to media report Stoltenberg has been extended for one more year as NATO secretary general. His post as chief of Norwegian central bank will have to wait now. (Reports TV2).


----------



## mmr

Amliunion said:


> I can upload my Video/Audio replying to your posts in Russian.
> 
> What happened to the Boiling Situation?


Are u guys done with pussy jihad and cow jihad lol? I thought endia is famous for that against its minorities. Why u now crying for discrimination done by another country lol. Ukraine is not perfect and ya they have dicks. How is that any different then fucking rss? 

Look at ur shit hole india and tell us what u did to stop those first.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506867101981499395

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506876135623307268

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## mmr

coffee_cup said:


> Lets not derail the topic here. There is a dedicated thread about that, feel free to go there and discuss it.
> 
> In the meanwhile, according to media report Stoltenberg has been extended for one more year as NATO secretary general. His post as chief of Norwegian central bank will have to wait now. (Reports TV2).


Agreed.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506949663483731969


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506663502865485844

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## The SC

Su-34 air strike on a Ukrainian group of trucks


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506882308950966276


----------



## UKBengali

UK to supply 6000 more missiles to Ukraine and 25 million pounds to pay the wages of the Ukrainian military.

Will be interested to know how many of these missiles will be the deadly Starstreak manpad SAM.

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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> With same logic @jhungary should also be sanctioned. He is also using the Chinese flag, even though he is not a Chinese or living in China.
> 
> So let it be and lets continue discussing the topic on hand.
> 
> @LeGenD


Again, let me give you a hint.

They DO suspend people for using false flag. 

I have been using this flag for over 9 years, and I was not suspended once. (I was suspended once for trolling) and I can't say the same for people who keep accusing me in the last 9 years.

I will give you 3 guess as to why?

Oh and I will give you one giant hint, I was interviewed by this forum once





__





Members Interview: Jhungary


Hope you all enjoy, Thank you @jhungary for giving us the time. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Introduction: My name is Gary, I was born on the 1980 in the United States. My father is a Mexican-American hailed from Central Mexico...



defence.pk





So, let me know if you can figure it out.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506900560167026690

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506955068033191937


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506927864670830593


----------



## nangyale

How Syria can gain from Russo-Ukrainian war​ 
Syria has stood out as a key player in undermining the success of the US-led campaign to isolate Russia on the world stage 


by Amalendu Misra March 24, 2022 





Syrian soldiers are battle-hardened. Photo: Wikimedia Commons 

The Russo-Ukrainian war has provided the regime in Damascus, once considered a political pariah in the region, much-needed respectability on the regional and world stages.
Syria was one of the handful of countries to support Vladimir Putin’s unprovoked attack on Ukraine. Apart from this moral support, the Russian military campaign in Ukraine has provided an opportunity for the regime to send its paramilitary forces to fight for its old ally and return the favor it received all these years. 
There are two concrete issues that need evaluating regarding Syria’s position vis-à-vis the Russo-Ukrainian war. The first is military and the second is political. On both of these, Syria appears to be making a significant contribution to the war as well as the larger geopolitical context. 

Syrian contribution to the war​It is now established that Russia is recruiting Syrian paramilitaries and serving soldiers to fight under its flag in Ukraine. Rather than a conscription drive, there appears to be genuine support for Russia in Syria at the moment. Tens of thousands of Syrians have shown readiness to sign up to fight in Ukraine for Russia in at least 14 recruitment centers across the country. 
Going by the current scenario on the ground, the Kremlin’s military campaign in Ukraine is likely to be a long-drawn-out one. From the earlier conventional war, the Russians are facing what may be called an insurrectional war in Ukraine.
Such wars require irregulars capable of adapting to complex dynamics on the ground. Consequently, if the war strategies employed by Moscow in the besieged cities of Mariupol and Kharkiv are anything to go by, we are in for protracted urban warfare. This involves encirclement and hammering of cities resisting Russian advances with a special kind of armament and soldiers. 
What can the Syrian recruits to the Russian campaign bring that the Russian soldiers cannot? First, the Syrian recruits are battle-hardened and come with plenty of war experience under their belt.
Second, some of these recruits are ideologically driven and want to bring success to the Kremlin’s campaign in Ukraine and make good on the support they received from Russia in the past.

Third, these soldiers and paramilitaries are extremely adaptable in urban combat – they bring to the war a special kind of skill that the conscript Russian army lacks. 
National Defense Forces​Of all the Syrian recruits, it is the National Defense Forces that are likely to prove crucial in this war. Arguably, the NDF militia has the best battle experience in contemporary Middle Eastern warfare. They have been fighting relentlessly in Syria’s civil war since 2012.
At a time when the Syrian Armed Forces were struggling with defections, reliability, and trust among their ranks, it was the NDF that demonstrated the most motivated, loyal, and effective infantry in the ruling regime’s power consolidation campaigns. 
The NDF have proved their mettle while acting in an infantry role, while directly engaged in combat with rebels on the ground. More important, they have proved to be exceptionally successful in running counterinsurgency operations. Being well versed in urban warfare and constant battle readiness has made NDF recruits an extremely potent military asset. 
The NDF’s deployment in Ukraine under the Russian flag may be the beginning of the militia’s transformation from a national infantry division to an international armed brigade.

It is worth mentioning that Syrian fighters have been deployed in foreign theaters before, by both Russia and Turkey in Libya, and by Turkey in Nagorno-Karabakh to help Ankara’s ally Azerbaijan. 
With the retreating US security guarantees in the Middle East, there is a real possibility of local regimes exploring indigenous safety mechanisms to address their internal security needs. If the NDF militia makes a good name for itself, in securing vital successes for Putin in the battlefields of Ukraine, it will significantly increase its profile as an effective force that could be called upon for deployment at short notice beyond Syria. 
Syria’s growing rapprochement with the United Arab Emirates and beginning of the end of the ruling regime’s pariah status may open possibilities for other authoritarian regimes in the region to take a leaf from President Bashar al-Assad’s war manual and hire NDF recruits in their dissent-suppressing initiatives. 
Syria has stood out as one key player in undermining the success of the US-led campaign to isolate Russia on the world stage. Its actions may have made a small dent, but it is a dent nonetheless. As days and weeks pass and we see an increase in Russia’s gains on the Ukrainian war front, this outcome is likely to embolden the Assad regime further. 
_Amalendu Misra is professor of international politics at Lancaster University in England. Follow him on Twitter @MisraAmalendu_

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## BlindEagle

Amliunion said:


> Vse indiyskiye studenty vernulis' v Indiyu


Nyet. Tay bresh. Yest ishio ve sumi



jamahir said:


> And what does "mainstream media" mean ? And if you are the long-time member @Michael Corleone as you claim then you will know that I don't accept information as is.
> 
> 
> 
> @Amliunion says you don't speak Russian either.
> 
> ---
> 
> Amliunion, why is Elon that way in your profile picture ?


Yeah you just cherry pick what suits your narrative. It’s called confirmation bias. Now still to kashmir or Hyderabad. Worry about your girls getting married to hindu boys at home

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506956699281903621

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## BlindEagle

Vergennes said:


> LMAO,look how he changed his country flag to Russia...
> 
> Using google translator will not make you a Russian  @Amliunion
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506925153682444290


Indian bootlicker this @Amliunion guy
Bootlicking is in their blood

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## coffee_cup

Back to the topic:

Breaking: Ukraine has asked NATO for 200 tanks.


----------



## mmr

Lavrov’s stepdaughter targeted as UK announces 65 new Russian sanctions


Billionaire oil tycoon, six banks and a defence company also included in list




www.theguardian.com





Lavrov’s stepdaughter targeted as UK announces 65 new Russian sanctions​
What is with these russians? seems every putler's minister family live in west or has invest billions in Europe

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## Foinikas

thetutle said:


> lol, no, just no. Some critical thought is required here. If the average Joe can access these women through prostitution, so can the police agencies. Of course if you believe in the cabal of elites that facilitate all this, then nothing can be said.


And the police often arrest whole organisations that are doing this. In what world do you live in? 

I'm not talking about "cabal of elites",I'm talking about mafia and small criminals. Of course there are bigger criminal organisations that offer such women to richer people too,but women trafficking has been going on for decades. I'm surprised this is the first time you hear about it. Ever since the collapse of communism,thousands of women have fallen victim to such criminals. Women from Russia,Ukraine,Moldova,Romania,Bulgaria and other countries. 

Where do you live? How come you've never heard of this before? The portrayal of such an organization in the movie "Taken" is accurate of such criminal organisations that are of a higher level.

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## jhungary

mmr said:


> better ignore and focus on topic


It's just fun to see a guy who go offtopic and then accuse me of going off topic.

I am just amaze, that's all

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## mmr

jhungary said:


> It's just fun to see a guy who go offtopic and then accuse me of going off topic.
> 
> I am just amaze, that's all


Good

*Around 5.75bn Swiss francs (£4.68bn) worth of Russian assets in Switzerland, the world’s biggest centre for offshore wealth, have been frozen as a result of sanctions, a Swiss government official said.

That figure is likely to rise further, Erwin Hollinger, a senior official at the State Secretariat for Economic Affairs (SECO) agency overseeing sanctions, told a news conference today*, as cited by Reuters:



> Today, for the first time, I can give you an indication of the amount of frozen funds.
> To date, SECO has been notified of funds and assets totalling around 5.750 billion Swiss francs.


Until now, the SECO had declined to provide an estimate of the extent of assets frozen or potentially subject to sanctions.

Bollinger added:



> The cited number of far over 5 billion francs relates to a snapshot in time.
> With further reports coming in and potential additions to EU sanctions lists, which Switzerland would also assume, it is likely this number will rise further.


*Switzerland’s secretive banks hold up to $213bn (£161.42bn) of Russian wealth*, the country’s financial industry association has estimated.

source https://www.theguardian.com/


----------



## jamahir

Amliunion said:


> What happened to the Boiling Situation?



What is the Boiling Situation ?

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## jhungary

jamahir said:


> We are talking about a human journalist who you are demonizing for reporting truth so I just gave a comparative example where another journalist also presented truth but wasn't listened to by her government and the government carried on with its terrorism campaign in Libya.
> 
> 
> 
> Did the Eastern rebels crucify Ukranians like the Ukranians did with the Russian speakers ?
> 
> 
> 
> 1. What are the contexts of these pictures ?
> 
> 2. And it was @Amliunion who posted a vid of a Russian unit who captured Ukranian soldiers who wore female clothing, so such a situation is not inconceivable.


Well, no, you are talking about war crime, while you are doing that, you conveniencely leave out the fact that this is a 2 way street.

They actually do. Read up on the journalist that were covering the Eastern separatist during and after 2014 protest. A lot of them are tortured, one of them is Luhansk Journalist Maria Varfolomeyeva 









Call for Action to Free Luhansk Journalist held Hostage for 5 Months


Maria Varfolomeyeva had remained in Luhansk after the Kremlin-backed militants seized control in order to care for her grandmother who was ill. The 30-year-old journalist was taken prisoner in early January and has now been held hostage longer than any journalist so far, and her captors keep...



khpg.org





1.) That picture was taken from inside the hospital
2.) Are you saying that woman is a dude? How about the baby then? Is it old enough to enlist?


----------



## nangyale

SuvarnaTeja said:


> #BlackLivesMatter


More like.

"I Don't know what I will be today, but listen to my sob story as it matters".

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## jhungary

jamahir said:


> He also has family in Venezuela. An international man of mystery he is.


Dude, how is it a surprise for a Latino person who have relative living all over Latin America countries??

My next door neighbour is an Aussie, he have relative in the UK, US, Canada and South Africa.....You say that like this is exclusively applies to me.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506966039258710026

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## jhungary

SuvarnaTeja said:


> #BlackLivesMatter


??


----------



## mmr

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506966039258710026




This will help to defend Odessa i guess

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## Wood

thetutle said:


> *The system which generates more high tech and wealth will ultimately win*. We shall see one day who is right


No, I'll bet that free societies will eventually outlive authoritarian regimes in one form or other. It is simply difficult to keep the mind control going through generations. Eventually the system will relax its restrictions at some time and that will result in a breakdown. Soviet Union is a good example.

Technical supremacy or wealth is not specifically tied to system of government. Germans had good tech. under Hitler and they have it now as a free society as well.

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## nangyale

jamahir said:


> 1. What are the contexts of these pictures ?
> 
> 2. And @Amliunion posted a vid of a Russian unit who captured Ukranian soldiers who wore female clothing, so such a situation is not inconceivable.


That woman was latter found to be alive and collecting food rations from Russians. 
So the context is fake news being spread by the usual suspects.

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## jhungary

mmr said:


> How many?


Not known, it's from the British Stock, so either sea eagle or land base Harpoon.

It is a part of 1.2 billons pound worth deal.

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## LeGenD

sal29 said:


> Man same thing happened to me and I was banned. I complained but no replies there as well. Maybe it is time to seek alternative forums. Unilateral removal of post which don't fit a certain narrative is going on here a lot but yea not much can be done regarding that. As per forum rules you should not complain here but complain at General Headquarters. Good Luck



1. I removed your *one* post for being off-topic in this thread and you started to question Moderation decisions here. The first thing to do when you join a Forum is to check its stated Forum Rules. Your off-topic post is not found to be of much value to this thread and otherwise; information in your post can be refuted - I can restore your post and do this myself, *but* this might lead to further derailing of this thread. There comes a time when an off-topic conversation must be stopped for good.

I offered you to discuss your problem with me (in a separate conversation) in good faith but you did not pay heed to my proposition; you wanted to create a scene here instead. You forced my hand to take action in spite of repeated reminders to STOP violating Forum Rules in this thread.

Now let me tell you something more. I can defend my decision to remove your off-topic post in this thread if called upon. I have done my homework in this regard. I also have the power to restore posts and remove strikes. For perspective, I issued a strike to a senior member for violating a Forum Rule in another thread and he apologized to me in return; I removed his Strike afterwards. *Your behavior counts.*

2. The member you chose to address this time - his post was removed due to following reason:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Dude, you are really ignorant, I hope you know that. Collateral Damage is when you saw a soldier enter into a house, then you call in your coordinate and strike that house, turn out there are a few women and children that was inside that house along with the soldier, that's collateral damage...



defence.pk





You can see his idea of productive conversations; blanket-branding people and groups as terrorists by himself.

These are the type of people you want to associate with here? Are you new to cyberspace? You have difficulty understanding statements?

I have posted in many forums and I can tell you from experience that Mods will intervene in view of complaints or when they notice Forum Rules being violated in a thread. Have a look at the quality of Moderation in Indian forums for a change - you will come to respect PDF much more in fact.

If you want to discuss this matter with me then request separate conversation. My offer still stands.

BUT DO NOT COMMENT ON MODERATION DECISIONS IN THIS THREAD AGAIN. FINAL WARNING.

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## jhungary

@mmr 

French were mulling over selling Rafale to Ukraine just a year ago, I am pretty sure they would also consider to part way with some Exocets. But then strangely they are very quiet on sending arms to Ukraine....









France hopes to sell Rafale fighters to Ukraine


Ukraine is about to renew its fleet of fighter jets. France could offer the Dassault Rafale as a contender.




www.aerotime.aero


----------



## mmr

jhungary said:


> @mmr
> 
> French were mulling over selling Rafale to Ukraine just a year ago, I am pretty sure they would also consider to part way with some Exocets. But then strangely they are very quiet on sending arms to Ukraine....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> France hopes to sell Rafale fighters to Ukraine
> 
> 
> Ukraine is about to renew its fleet of fighter jets. France could offer the Dassault Rafale as a contender.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aerotime.aero


French might send now under 1 billion euro arms support which was agreed last night. I meant not fighter but other lethal arms. 

US and Nato leaders in talks to send Ukraine anti-ship missiles​James Politi in Brussels

US president Joe Biden and Nato leaders are in talks to send anti-ship missiles to Ukraine to help it fend off Russian attacks from the sea, said a senior Biden administration official on Thursday, as members of the western alliance held a summit to discuss their response to the war.

Source - Financial times


----------



## Vergennes

jhungary said:


> @mmr
> 
> French were mulling over selling Rafale to Ukraine just a year ago, I am pretty sure they would also consider to part way with some Exocets. But then strangely they are very quiet on sending arms to Ukraine....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> France hopes to sell Rafale fighters to Ukraine
> 
> 
> Ukraine is about to renew its fleet of fighter jets. France could offer the Dassault Rafale as a contender.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aerotime.aero



France has taken a much more intelligent approach by not officially revealing what was sent to Ukraine and on what scale.

What's confirmed (visually confirmed) is that we sent helmets,body armors and anti tank missiles. (MILAN and ERYX)

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## vizier

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506966039258710026



Transferring heavier equipment would result in a spin that may force Russia to use less restraints in its weapon arsenal. At least an option of ceasefire should be offered with weapon supplies( atgms manpads as well) paused to Ukraine in return Russia stopping fire and returning to negotiations. Additionally maybe Mariopol evacuation can be planned with Un if ceasefire holds for some time. Otherwise ceasefire efforts will not be possible with continious weapon transfers feeding the conflict. If offer is rejected by Russia then it will further prove that Putin wants things to escalate and prove that it is not European Nato member countries that want escalation.


----------



## jamahir

nangyale said:


> That woman was latter found to be alive and collecting food rations from Russians.
> So the context is fake news being spread by the usual suspects.



@jhungary, what do you say now ?


----------



## jhungary

jamahir said:


> @jhungary, what do you say now ?


I will say show proof.

Propaganda hit like this, they wanted people to know, not hid it some where. So if this is true, there are bound to be photo.

Also, which woman you are talking about? The first one or the second one?


----------



## bobo6661

nangyale said:


> That woman was latter found to be alive and collecting food rations from Russians.
> So the context is fake news being spread by the usual suspects.


She was not found alive there was only a twett with video with someone similar  Looks like you guys having hard time to distinguishing slavs


----------



## Wood

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506966039258710026


Absolutely necessary to do this before Mariupol falls. Odessa will be under fire from all sides after this.

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## jhungary

mmr said:


> French might send now under 1 billion euro arms support which was agreed last night. I meant not fighter but other lethal arms.
> 
> US and Nato leaders in talks to send Ukraine anti-ship missiles​James Politi in Brussels
> 
> US president Joe Biden and Nato leaders are in talks to send anti-ship missiles to Ukraine to help it fend off Russian attacks from the sea, said a senior Biden administration official on Thursday, as members of the western alliance held a summit to discuss their response to the war.
> 
> Source - Financial times


probably a NATO deal as a whole. But I have not heard of anything from any channel. But then I don't really read much cable from the French for whatever reason......


----------



## mmr

jhungary said:


> Well, I don't generally trust the French, got burn by a French Officer once.......pr got burn by @Vergennes once.......(That's a joke)
> 
> probably a NATO deal as a whole. But I have not heard of anything from any channel.


I think they should not announce what they (nato) sending so publicly. Not a smart move.


----------



## jhungary

mmr said:


> I think they should not announce what they sending so publicly. Not a smart move.


Well, as I said, they hold their card close to their chest, I am sure they have sent something to the Ukrainian, but they probably were not doing it over the public channel.

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## jamahir

jhungary said:


> I will say show proof.
> 
> Propaganda hit like this, they wanted people to know, not hid it some where. So if this is true, there are bound to be photo.
> 
> Also, which woman you are talking about? The first one or the second one?



Which second woman ? In this post you posted photo of only one woman. What did you want to say then ?


----------



## bobo6661

mmr said:


> I think they should not announce what they sending so publicly. Not a smart move.


Maybee it like look we are sending it, without sending it😂 true russians cant take it lightly.

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## jhungary

jamahir said:


> Which second woman ? In this post you posted photo of only one woman. What did you want to say then ?


I posted 2 photos, not one. (Actually 3 if you also count the theatre)


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## UKBengali

Vergennes said:


> France has taken a much more intelligent approach by not officially revealing what was sent to Ukraine and on what scale.
> 
> What's confirmed (visually confirmed) is that we sent helmets,body armors and anti tank missiles. (MILAN and ERYX)




Well it can work both ways.

UK revealing that it will send an extra 6000 missiles to Ukraine may persuade the Russians that they need to make peace with Ukraine fast on terms that Ukraine is likely to accept.

Yes giving precise figures could help the Russians in working out the threat to them but this does not really help when the numbers are now 10s of thousands of missiles - the Russians simply do not have anywhere near enough targets for these missiles to hit.

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## jhungary

UKBengali said:


> Well it can work both ways.
> 
> UK revealing that it will send an extra 6000 missiles to Ukraine may persuade the Russians that they need to make peace with Ukraine fast on terms that Ukraine is likely to accept.
> 
> Yes giving precise figures could help the Russians in working out the threat to them but this does not really help when the numbers are now 10s of thousands of missiles - the Russians simply do not have anywhere near enough targets for these missiles to hit.


I think it's okay to tell people what did you sent, but when or how many would be an OPSEC problem. 

I am surprise that US, UK and Sweden all announce what they were sending and how many they were sending so publicly...


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## Vergennes

Officially there is no war in Ukraine. But after a month of fighting, it is impossible to hide the return of the coffins as the conflict decimates the ranks of the Russian army.

While reading the Russian press,you would think you are reading the Pravda of the 70s 80s.

We can read about a sergeant who died on 24 february,whose burial took place only a few days ago (1 month after his death)

Thus the sergeant who died on February 24, whose burial took place a few days ago (so almost a month after his death) and whose obituary reminds the heroism of this paratrooper who died by "unpinning his last grenade as he was surrounded by Ukrainian troops".

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## UKBengali

jhungary said:


> I think it's okay to tell people what did you sent, but when or how many would be an OPSEC problem.
> 
> I am surprise that US, UK and Sweden all announce what they were sending and how many they were sending so publicly...




Sure none of these countries are revealing precise delivery dates in advance.


That would be really stupid.

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## jhungary

UKBengali said:


> Sure none of these countries are revealing precise delivery dates in advance.
> 
> 
> That would be really stupid.


Unless that was a bait......

Have the SAM ready and nothing was actually send, have them waste their ammo............

Maybe some sort of high level sun tzu stuff

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## UKBengali

jhungary said:


> Unless that was a bait......
> 
> Have the SAM ready and nothing was actually send, have them waste their ammo............
> 
> Maybe some sort of high level sun tzu stuff




Anyway Russians have little ability to strike these weapon convoys.

They would really have no idea which one of the multitudes of trucks crossing the border into Ukraine everyday is carrying hundreds of these missiles each and anyway their ability to hit these trucks so far from their front lines seems to be around zero.


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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506961057251831813The clearest video showing the fire on the Russian Landing Craft. The fire on deck is clearly visible. While the fire is on, 2 Russian ships are leaving the port. Smoke rises from the second ship leaving the port.

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## Wood

Vergennes said:


> Officially there is no war in Ukraine. But after a month of fighting, it is impossible to hide the return of the coffins as the conflict decimates the ranks of the Russian army.
> 
> While reading the Russian press,you would think you are reading the Pravda of the 70s 80s.
> 
> We can read about a sergeant who died on 24 february,whose burial took place only a few days ago (1 month after his death)
> 
> Thus the sergeant who died on February 24, whose burial took place a few days ago (so almost a month after his death) and whose obituary reminds the heroism of this paratrooper who died by "unpinning his last grenade as he was surrounded by Ukrainian troops".
> 
> View attachment 826844


Casualty of an unnecessary war. Putin must be held accountable


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## 8888888888888

look like keyboard warriors are over estimating how good those nato missiles are.



UKBengali said:


> Anyway Russians have little ability to strike these weapon convoys.
> 
> They would really have no idea which one of the multitudes of trucks crossing the border into Ukraine everyday is carrying hundreds of these missiles each and anyway their ability to hit these trucks so far from their front lines seems to be around zero.


Wow you are out of touch Russia can’t bomb western Ukraine ???

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## lightning F57

LeGenD said:


> You declared Azov group a terrorist organization on your own; you equated it with Al-Qaeda Network on your own. You declared people who volunteered to fight for Ukraine as terrorists on your own. You are overreaching in your critic here. Your post was removed on the grounds of being unproductive.
> 
> Check information in following posts:
> 
> Post in thread 'Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/post-13596480
> 
> Post in thread 'Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/post-13608691
> 
> Post in thread 'Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/post-13621199
> 
> Post in thread 'Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/post-13624243
> 
> Nobody here is a fan of Azov and the sort but you need to get a grip on yourself and try to be sensible and fair in your critic and judgements.



So what if I declare they are terrorists, its my opinion isn't that the point of a forum rather than peddling the same view. I'm not the only one, Democrats within the US house of representatives wanted them labelled as terrorists in 2019.

I never said everyone going to fight for Ukraine are terrorists you made that up. The alqueda comparison was based on how extremist all over the world are going to ukraine to join them. 

Anyway delete as you like if it doesnt suit your narrative.

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## Ich

Wood said:


> they have it now as a free society as well.


What "free society"?

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## dbc

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506961057251831813The clearest video showing the fire on the Russian Landing Craft. The fire on deck is clearly visible. While the fire is on, 2 Russian ships are leaving the port. Smoke rises from the second ship leaving the port.



is Putin still winning?


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## Khan vilatey

I still don’t understand why the Russians don’t secure the Ukrainian border with Poland , hungry and others since all sorts of resupply is flowing from there. At least fly air strikes on the resupply route 

K

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## Wood

Ich said:


> What "free society"?


Your media is free as far as I can tell. Have seen documentaries in DW that are critical of German government. You can vote and replace your head of state if the majority of your electorate so desires. I consider these as traits of free society

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506984917963624449

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## SuvarnaTeja

Ich said:


> What "free society"?



A free society is one where is there is no opposition.

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> It is US/NATO label as how the Soviets uses airpower. Imagine Soviet airpower consists mostly of AC-130s with the Soviet Army about 24-48 hrs behind, hence 'Airborne Artillery'. It is a rather limited perspective of airpower.
> 
> Soviet jets are known to be less technologically sophisticated than Western jets. Part of that is access to technology and part from doctrine. Being less technologically sophisticated allows the jet to be closer to the front line operating from austere airfields almost close to what helos use, and ease of maintenance by -- shall we say kindly -- less educated/trained troops. When I was active duty, it took a long time for the DoD to declassify some materials gained from our brief examination of the MIG-25 defected by Viktor Belenko, and our squadron had a chance to see some of that material as part of a motivational tour. Our F-15s were using solid state electronics but their MIG-25s had vacuum tubes. The popular defense is that tubes are immune from EMP which our engineers laughed at. Steel is easier to find than composites, so if a MIG-25, and others of that series, is damaged, steel from tanks or APCs can be used to patch up the body and even repair some critical airframe sub-structures, if a competent welder is available.
> 
> So if we extrapolate this upward, it is reasonable to assume that the Soviets had this limited perspective of its airpower and developed a war time doctrine appropriately. Then forward to today, it seems the VKS deviated little from that perspective and combat doctrine, hence, not much air presence except for where Russian ground troops are fighting, and even then, the VKS is not that impressive compared against the perception that we developed. It seems we continually overestimate the VKS. Maybe it is an intellectual 'better safe than sorry' safety margin on our part.



For us, Airborne Artillery is the AC-130  

Anyway, we were taught the thought of "Air Support or Artillery support are for you to use, but you do not own them" In the Army, we called them organic unit. The reason why it is organic is because they can be used not just by one unit, and not just by one AO. Take a M777 Battery for an example. You have a support radius of 25km, that mean it can be used in a circle within 50km, that can easily be 3 or 4 AO worth of area. So for me, I am in charge of 1 AO, if I was up to me, that M777 Battery would have just serve my AO, 

That is the reason why support are detached. The commander of that battery in charge of his own battery, and I can use it if I want, but then ultimately, it's their job to do what they want with their artillery battery.



> So if we go by what you are saying on the ground, then no wonder the VKS commander is sitting on his butt. I think the local air commander is doing the best he can, but if the ground commander is unable to accomplish his goals for any reason, from enemy resistance to weather, then the air commander will be equally shorted on what he is allowed to do. The more I look at this, the more it is likely the VKS is staying with Soviet air doctrine. I somewhat feel a little sorry for the guy as I bet he is being pulled three different directions.
> 
> If the Russian Army is going to lay siege on the major cities...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Air Force Has Some Thinking to Do: Airpower and the Future Urban Battlefield - Modern War Institute
> 
> 
> The targets . . . just keep getting smaller: individuals, extremists, terrorists, the architects of chaos who disappear in the urban vomit that is the modern city . . . and even with precision, all our options start to look like needles in haystacks. — Williamson Murray, “Operation Iraqi...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mwi.usma.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As can be seen by any Google image search of Raqqa, moreover, the employment of airpower in cities has been *accompanied by great destruction.*
> 
> Regardless of function, role, or mission, the application of airpower in cities for strategic effect is tremendously challenging, even with advanced precision weapons and sensors. The Air Force must move beyond tactics, techniques, and procedures (TTPs) to consider broader solutions at the operational and strategic levels because even the best TTPs will not guarantee victory in urban environments.
> 
> Currently, airpower in the urban environment combat situation produce only one outcome: great destruction. There is a limit on the angle of approach for any PGM and usually it is greater than 45 deg to vertical. We can use PGM against a building but if the bomb miss it will hit the next building, so in an urban environment, there are very little misses. But the VKS have limited PGM usage so far. There is a caveat to this. Just because you have a lot of PGM does not mean all your pilots are qual-ed to use them and use effectively. Combat is no training environment. The VKS may have a lot of PGM, but if insufficient jets/pilots are qual-ed to use, might as well be no PGM, then we will see even more great destruction to those besieged cities.
> 
> What you said about the dilution of power is interesting because it is not applicable to airpower. Simply put, we ain't around all the time. If the tank stopped in front of you, the power of the tank is still there, you are just lucky it is not running or shooting. But with the airplane, I have to leave when I reach bingo fuel. So yes, the Russians should have gone all out on one city, then the next, then the next. Maybe Kyiv should have been the first, but if the VKS cannot replicate Desert Storm, then the air commander should have been allowed to focus his jets on one target at a time.
> 
> Now comes the horrific part. Under the concept of 'airborne artillery', the combined effects of artillery shells approach on one side of a target, then bombs delivered by jets on the other side, anyone/anything inside that building will die. We *WILL* see a humanitarian crisis in each besieged city.



The problem for the Russian Air Force is that they do not have a good intelligence arm of operation. 

As I said time and time again, the fact that we know about their plan, their date of execution, and how to execute this operation itself is a major intelligence failure on Russian part, and the fact that they attacked as planned, in spite of that leak, is another intelligence failure. 

We all wanted to fight war that were clean, a smart bomb dropped from 20,000 ft and hit that vehicle on the move, yes, that is a good capability to have, but not everyone can have that. To do that, you will need a team on the ground and their job is to locate target, and then somehow try to find a way to strike it. it's very easy when I am talking about it here, but when you have to go do it, that's another matter. 

My background is an Airborne Pathfinder (Like LRRP back in Vietnam days), what we do is we were inserted ahead of the main event and then chart out what is the defence and what should we target and how do we target, and to do that, you will need to have a certain degree of ground intelligence, I mean, you cannot just flip a coin and go at a random direction, which mean you will need to know where to go and when to go there in order to order a strike. That involved some serious amount of intelligence. 

The thing is, I don't think the Russia have this level of operational capability. Sure you can use GPS guided missile or other type of PGM, but without accurate and real time intel, that would not do much, the best you can do is what we called "Chasing Shadow" kind of like wrack-a-mole, you spam your attack and hoping to get a HVT. We see how much of a progress the Russian have during their pre-invasion bombardment, that was not enough at all. And if this is us, we would have more intel than the other side, and then launch an Alpha Strike, map out everything and strike them all at once. So you deal maximum damage, but this capability is lacking for the Russian.

On the other hand, were Russian intelligence agency really that crappy? I would inclined to say no, which left only one logical conclusion, and that is, they do have good intel, but they did not act on it..........


----------



## mmr

dbc said:


> is Putin still winning?


He will after losing few more ships once NATO send anti ship missile

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## lightning F57

We get allot of stats on russian losses, are there any detailing Ukraine. I would suspect a much bigger difference but havnt seen anything which is cooberated.

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## jamahir

Wood said:


> Your media is free as far as I can tell. Have seen documentaries in DW that are critical of German government. You can vote and replace your head of state if the majority of your electorate so desires. I consider these as traits of free society



 So India having those traits is a free society then ? Then you know nothing about what democracy is.



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506984917963624449



That man seems burned. What his captors are doing is torture.


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## UKBengali

8888888888888 said:


> look like keyboard warriors are over estimating how good those nato missiles are.
> 
> 
> Wow you are out of touch Russia can’t bomb western Ukraine ???




They can on fixed targets using missiles from air and ground but not on moving targets that they have no idea if it is a weapons shipment or not.


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## thetutle

8888888888888 said:


> look like keyboard warriors are over estimating how good those nato missiles are.
> 
> 
> Wow you are out of touch Russia can’t bomb western Ukraine ???


Some good points. One thing he does not mention is that there is not a single video of a javelin engaging a Russian tank in combat. Not a single one.

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## LeGenD

lightning F57 said:


> So what if I declare they are terrorists, its my opinion isn't that the point of a forum rather than peddling the same view. I'm not the only one, Democrats within the US house of representatives wanted them labelled as terrorists in 2019.
> 
> I never said everyone going to fight for Ukraine are terrorists you made that up. The alqueda comparison was based on how extremist all over the world are going to ukraine to join them.
> 
> Anyway delete as you like if it doesnt suit your narrative.


Let us see:







_"This Avoz battalion sound like a terrorist organisation attracting terrorists from Europe, America and other parts of the world. A european Alqueda."_

This is excessive claim and without evidence.

Forum Rules Reminder:

*Ethnic / political / nationalistic hate

Needless to say, PDF wishes to be a productive exchange of ideas and not a place of spreading communal, national, political or religiously motivated hatred. Members found involved in such activities would be severely penalized.*

You are certainly allowed to critic Ukraine (and Azov Brigade) in your posts *but* do NOT be excessive in the course (FLAMEBAITING). Do no make claims that are unsubstantiated and make false equivalencies that cast an entire hemisphere in the wrong light. Do not question Moderation decisions as well; unproductive posts are removed to keep discussion atmosphere under control.

Be sensible and fair in jour judgement and critic. This is all.

Zelenskyy administration has created a Foreign Legion for which volunteers are applying from other countries.









International Legion of Territorial Defence of Ukraine - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













This Retired Cavalry Scout Says He's Been Vetting - and Helping - Recruits for Ukraine's Foreign Legion


Earlier this month, several outlets, citing embassy officials, said that at least 3,000 Americans had volunteered to fight.




www.military.com





These people are terrorists?

What about the humanitarian Russian Wagner Group which also has Neo-Nazi in its ranks and its atrocities are well-documented as well? I presented evidence in my previous post. Do not be selective in your critic.


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## lightning F57

Khan vilatey said:


> I still don’t understand why the Russians don’t secure the Ukrainian border with Poland , hungry and others since all sorts of resupply is flowing from there. At least fly air strikes on the resupply route
> 
> K


I wondered the same. It seems the Kremlin expected a short war and underestimated the losses. I think they dont want to commit more forces westward and have more troops spread thin. The size of Ukraine also means trying to take the whole country Russia will need a large occupation force which they likely dont want. 

Militarily I think they can only conduct surgical strikes when they identify targets westwards so too hard to stop flow of weapons without significant boots on the ground.

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## UKBengali

Khan vilatey said:


> I still don’t understand why the Russians don’t secure the Ukrainian border with Poland , hungry and others since all sorts of resupply is flowing from there. At least fly air strikes on the resupply route
> 
> K



They have no ability as their airforce is useless.

Think how difficult covering such a large area would be for USAF and then multiply by 10 times for Russia.


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## Foinikas

Vergennes said:


> France has taken a much more intelligent approach by not officially revealing what was sent to Ukraine and on what scale.
> 
> What's confirmed (visually confirmed) is that we sent helmets,body armors and anti tank missiles. (MILAN and ERYX)


Do you have any photos of Ukrainians with French army helmet and body armor? I heard about the MILAN but not about the ERYX.


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## jhungary

jamahir said:


> Below is your post. Which second woman ?
> View attachment 826855
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People like you and your French friend should be held accountable for posting snarky nonsense on the internet.


I made another post posting not longer after that post posting a photo of a woman on stretcher who later died,


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## Vergennes

Foinikas said:


> Do you have any photos of Ukrainians with French army helmet and body armor? I heard about the MILAN but not about the ERYX.



Here you can see Belarussian volunteers with spectra helmets and S3 body armors


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506352169745793038





Basically old stocks we are getting rid of. I've read modern helmets and body armors were also sent but no visual confirmation as of yet.


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## 8888888888888

lightning F57 said:


> We get allot of stats on russian losses, are there any detailing Ukraine. I would suspect a much bigger difference but havnt seen anything which is cooberated.


Suppose to have a lot of tanks in Ukraine but Russia probably destroyed most of them which is why the Ukraine president is begging for 200 tanks from nato.

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## Viet

lightning F57 said:


> I wondered the same. It seems the Kremlin expected a short war and underestimated the losses. I think they dont want to commit more forces westward and have more troops spread thin. The size of Ukraine also means trying to take the whole country Russia will need a large occupation force which they likely dont want.
> 
> Militarily I think they can only conduct surgical strikes when they identify targets westwards so too hard to stop flow of weapons without significant boots on the ground.


Putin believes he can take Ukraine in 3 days. He was not prepared for a long war. Now his army runs out of foods. He reportedly asks chinese to deliver army meals. How rediculous.
I hope chinese don’t send meals with chopsticks.


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## Foinikas

Vergennes said:


> Here you can see Belarussian volunteers with spectra helmets and S3 body armors
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506352169745793038
> View attachment 826872
> 
> 
> Basically old stocks we are getting rid of. I've read modern helmets and body armors were also sent but no visual confirmation as of yet.


Oh is this like Coat D'Ivoire era equipment? From the 90s and 2000s I mean.

By the way,the post says "Belarussian volunteers unite with Ukrainian forces to defend the city of Kiev. They're calling them Kastus Kalinouski".


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## Ich

Wood said:


> Your media is free as far as I can tell. Have seen documentaries in DW that are critical of German government. You can vote and replace your head of state if the majority of your electorate so desires. I consider these as traits of free society



I still cant find the facepalm smiley at the like button  Maybe it is there but it is censored like all opposite meanings on social media in Germany are censored/deletet. Maybe i dreaming that police hitman charge the flats of people who have an opposite view as the german gov has and throw them into jail.

Naaaah, pdf do not hide the faceplm smiley  But the rest and more is real...

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506983985007804425

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Some good points. One thing he does not mention is that there is not a single video of a javelin engaging a Russian tank in combat. Not a single one.


He didn't really say much really. He is just talking about why the video is edited. And that we don't know what we don't know.

The problem is, there are enough length of video for us to know that in most of these case, it is the Russian who is paying for it. Granted, what he said is correct, nobody is going to show any failed strike, and it did not give you enough perspective, but then wouldn't the reverse also be true? Failed strike on Ukrainian position is not going to be shown, and the Russia also are only focusing on their perspective. So, things would be kind of balance out.

Those video that was release was released for a perspective they want to tell you, this is not a "Objective" video in a sense that it allow you to think for yourself, So basically he is talking about something we already know, but at the same time, he is also ignoring the fact that Russia is seriously behind on its schedule.

PS. you are not going to see any missile hit the target on a first person view. That would review operational detail, you may see them after the war, but I don't think you will saw any of them when the war is still going on.

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## Wood

Ich said:


> I still cant find the facepalm smiley at the like button  Maybe it is there but it is censored like all opposite meanings on social media in Germany are censored/deletet. Maybe i dreaming that police hitman charge the flats of people who have an opposite view as the german gov has and throw them into jail.
> 
> Naaaah, pdf do not hide the faceplm smiley  But the rest and more is real...


I don't live in Germany and don't speak German. I do work with quite a few German people and I do not have the impression that Germany is a security state from them. So, this is what I (an average person who resides in the west) believes to be true.


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## LeGenD

Ich said:


> I still cant find the facepalm smiley at the like button  Maybe it is there but it is censored like all opposite meanings on social media in Germany are censored/deletet. Maybe i dreaming that police hitman charge the flats of people who have an opposite view as the german gov has and throw them into jail.
> 
> Naaaah, pdf do not hide the faceplm smiley  But the rest and more is real...





You can use following:

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♀️

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## Foinikas

thetutle said:


> Some good points. One thing he does not mention is that there is not a single video of a javelin engaging a Russian tank in combat. Not a single one.


Are there actually any videos of Javelins destroying Russian armor?


----------



## jhungary

Khan vilatey said:


> I still don’t understand why the Russians don’t secure the Ukrainian border with Poland , hungry and others since all sorts of resupply is flowing from there. At least fly air strikes on the resupply route
> 
> K



Ukrainian/Poland Border is deep inside Western Ukraine. You cannot just go and secure the entire Polish/Ukrainian border even if you start from Brest, in fact, doing so would make your situation worse. Think about it like this, if the Russian is hit by the Ukrainian on the Polish/Ukrainian border, where could they go? They can't cross the border and go into Poland. which mean if they were attacked along the border, they will be stuck......

And you can't fly airstrike over the supply route, you would have to cross a lot of Ukrainian territories in order for you to do that, think of the SAM along the way.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506997848348446722

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## thetutle

Foinikas said:


> Are there actually any videos of Javelins destroying Russian armor?


not a single one


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506994489998651393


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506935678776463360

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## dBSPL

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506983985007804425


Western banks will suffer greatly from this witch hunt in the long run and the gold repatriation rapidly increase. England and the USA are two global centers in these type long-term gold storage.

Countries have already been calling their gold assets abroad to their central banks for the last 4-5 years; Even the major industrial center economies of the western wing, such as Germany, have drawn almost all of their gold reserves to the central bank.

From now on, this system will completely disappear. Because there are arbitrary practices without any legal basis. The 'trust' has been completely destroyed.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506935678776463360


Losing 1 navy ship is more demoralizing than losing hundreds of ground vehicles.

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## sal29

LeGenD said:


> Let us see:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _"This Avoz battalion sound like a terrorist organisation attracting terrorists from Europe, America and other parts of the world. A european Alqueda."_
> 
> This is excessive claim and without evidence.
> 
> Forum Rules Reminder:
> 
> *Ethnic / political / nationalistic hate
> 
> Needless to say, PDF wishes to be a productive exchange of ideas and not a place of spreading communal, national, political or religiously motivated hatred. Members found involved in such activities would be severely penalized.*
> 
> You are certainly allowed to critic Ukraine (and Azov Brigade) in your posts *but* do NOT be excessive in the course (FLAMEBAITING). Do no make claims that are unsubstantiated and make false equivalencies that cast an entire hemisphere in the wrong light. Do not question Moderation decisions as well; unproductive posts are removed to keep discussion atmosphere under control.
> 
> Be sensible and fair in jour judgement and critic. This is all.
> 
> Zelenskyy administration has created a Foreign Legion for which volunteers are applying from other countries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International Legion of Territorial Defence of Ukraine - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This Retired Cavalry Scout Says He's Been Vetting - and Helping - Recruits for Ukraine's Foreign Legion
> 
> 
> Earlier this month, several outlets, citing embassy officials, said that at least 3,000 Americans had volunteered to fight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.military.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These people are terrorists?
> 
> What about the humanitarian Russian Wagner Group which also has Neo-Nazi in its ranks and its atrocities are well-documented as well? I presented evidence in my previous post. Do not be selective in your critic.





> _"This Avoz battalion sound like a terrorist organisation attracting terrorists from Europe, America and other parts of the world. A european Alqueda._





> This is excessive claim and without evidence.
> 
> Forum Rules Reminder:
> *Ethnic / political / nationalistic hate
> 
> Needless to say, PDF wishes to be a productive exchange of ideas and not a place of spreading communal, national, political or religiously motivated hatred. Members found involved in such activities would be severely penalized.*



I think you do need to understand the English Language. When it is written sound like a terrorist organization it makes it an opinion not a hard fact and the reader should try to understand that. Opinions are not required to have actual evidence it can just be inferred as well by the writer.

I can say something like ... Hamza Shahbaz through his actions & associations sounds to me as corrupt. Are you gonna ban me and say where is your factual proof considering he is never convicted ?

I know I am gonna get banned for this but I really don't care. I also have stopped contributing to this thread considering most of the conversations I do are removed even though they were appreciated by a lot readers on this thread.

I said my piece.

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## thetutle

dBSPL said:


> Western banks will suffer greatly from this witch hunt in the long run and the gold repatriation rapidly increase. England and the USA are two global centers in these type long-term gold storage.
> 
> Countries have already been calling their gold assets abroad to their central banks for the last 4-5 years; Even the major industrial center economies of the western wing, such as Germany, have drawn almost all of their gold reserves to the central bank.
> 
> From now on, this system will completely disappear. Because there are arbitrary practices without any legal basis. The 'trust' has been completely destroyed.
> 
> 
> Losing 1 navy ship is more demoralizing than losing hundreds of ground vehicles.


There have always been laws that allow confiscation of illegally obtained money. This is nothing new. Some private banks have been allowed to get rich keeping this stolen money, they will now lose this business. 

People that have stolen money can now keep it in Russia and venezuala if they like. Good luck to them with that. 

The fact is, there should be nowhere safe for stolen money and the truth is, there probably is nowhere safe.

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## Paul2

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506994489998651393



I think the question now is really what the West will do. Ukrainians are now capable at most to enforce the stalemate, and maybe pushing Russians to the border in Kiyv.

Time really benefits Russians with their slow logistics. Even if 40% of Russian military assets were thrown on Ukraine, and they were wiped out to the last, Russia still has resources for 1 more land offensive, and Russian generals will try to not to bungle it as hard as the first one just out of sheer sense of self-preservation.

Ukrainian military assets, and cohesion are getting depleted no question about that.

UAF priority is now to inflict as much damage until summer begins, and to turn as much territorials into real soldiers.

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## dBSPL

Look at the coincidence. The burning Russian ship became famous first in 2015 with a soldier posing while looking at the Bosphorus with MANPADS. Nazar.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506978994142564354
2015




2022

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## Wood

Paul2 said:


> I think the question now is really what the West will do. Ukrainians are now capable at most to enforce the stalemate, and maybe pushing Russians to the border in Kiyv.
> 
> Time really benefits Russians with their slow logistics. Even if 40% of Russian military assets were thrown on Ukraine, and they were wiped out to the last, Russia still has resources for 1 more land offensive, and probably Russian generals will not to bungle it as hard as the first one just out of sense of self-preservation.
> 
> Ukrainian military assets, and cohesion are getting depleted no question about that.
> 
> UAF priority is now to inflict as much damage until summer begins, and to turn as much territorials into real soldiers.


While it is possible for Russia to mount another offensive of equal proportion, I think doing so will deplete them of their reserves significantly. That will leave them vulnerable. Not worth to do that especially under their current economic conditions.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507004560996401168


Paul2 said:


> I think the question now is really what the West will do. Ukrainians are now capable at most to enforce the stalemate, and maybe pushing Russians to the border in Kiyv.
> 
> Time really benefits Russians with their slow logistics. Even if 40% of Russian military assets were thrown on Ukraine, and they were wiped out to the last, Russia still has resources for 1 more land offensive, and Russian generals will try to not to bungle it as hard as the first one just out of sheer sense of self-preservation.
> 
> Ukrainian military assets, and cohesion are getting depleted no question about that.
> 
> UAF priority is now to inflict as much damage until summer begins, and to turn as much territorials into real soldiers.




Russia has already committed 75% of their BTGS to Ukraine, and 60% of their air capacity.They don't have much left to draw from.

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## LeGenD

sal29 said:


> I think you do need to understand the English Language. When it is written sound like a terrorist organization it makes it an opinion not a hard fact and the reader should try to understand that. Opinions are not required to have actual evidence it can just be inferred as well by the writer.
> 
> I can say something like ... Hamza Shahbaz through his actions & associations sounds to me as corrupt. Are you gonna ban me and say where is your factual proof considering he is never convicted ?
> 
> I know I am gonna get banned for this but I really don't care. I also have stopped contributing to this thread considering most of the conversations I do are removed even though they were appreciated by a lot readers on this thread.
> 
> I said my piece.



1. You are allowed to post in this thread. I have not banned you.

2. You should concentrate on your posts and not try to speak on the behalf of other posters when they are judged for their contributions. This is not your call to make.

*Off-Topic Posts

Anything that does not add value to the discussion being had or does not say anything about the thread may be liable for deletion and repeated violations may result in penalization. Please, do know that going into tangents is encouraged (something related to the thread, such as discussing a conflict economically rather than militarily) but off-topic derailment is not encouraged (bringing in social issues in order to derail a thread about geopolitics, for instance).*

Are you actively fishing for penalization or something? Seriously man.

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## Wood

LeGenD said:


> 1. You are allowed to post in this thread. I have not banned you.
> 
> 2. You should concentrate on your posts and not try to speak on the behalf of other posters when they are judged for their contributions. This is not your call to make.
> 
> *Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Anything that does not add value to the discussion being had or does not say anything about the thread may be liable for deletion and repeated violations may result in penalization. Please, do know that going into tangents is encouraged (something related to the thread, such as discussing a conflict economically rather than militarily) but off-topic derailment is not encouraged (bringing in social issues in order to derail a thread about geopolitics, for instance).*
> 
> Are you actively fishing for penalization or something? Seriously man.


You have a tough job. Lot of people need baby sitting here 



F-22Raptor said:


> Russia has already committed 75% of their BTGS to Ukraine, and 60% of their air capacity.They don't have much left to draw from.


This is 75% of staged BTGS right?

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## dBSPL

When you are neutral...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506659304505495556

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## mmr

Lawmakers, Yellen mull freezing Russian gold reserves​Russia has $132B gold stockpile​
A bipartisan group of senators is working with the Treasury Department to prevent Russia from liquidating its giant stash of gold, potentially blocking one of the Kremlin's last methods for circumventing punishing financial sanctions. 


Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen will meet this week with Sens. Angus King, I-Maine, John Cornyn, R-Texas, Bill Hagerty, R-Tenn., and Maggie Hassan, D-N.H., to discuss the legislation that would target Russia's ability to sell gold reserves, a Treasury spokesperson told FOX Business. The news was first reported by Axios. 

*RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE: LIVE UPDATES*

"Secretary Yellen regularly meets with members of Congress to discuss legislation," the person said. "Additionally, Treasury staff frequently provide technical assistance on sanctions bills."






Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen speaks during a virtual roundtable with Black Chambers of Commerce across the country on Feb. 5, 2021. (AP Photo/Jacquelyn Martin / AP Newsroom)
*The legislation under consideration would impose secondary sanctions on any American entities knowingly buying or selling Russian gold. Russia’s gold stockpile was estimated to be worth $132.3 billion as of the end of January* – the world's fifth-biggest stockpile.

*If the U.S. moves to crack down on gold transactions, it could deter banks in places like China or India from buying or lending against Russia's reserves.*

The senators have suggested the bill could pass as soon as this week. Lawmakers originally wanted to include it as part of a must-pass omnibus spending bill. 





People walk past a currency exchange office in Moscow. (AP Photo/Pavel Golovkin / AP Newsroom)
"By sanctioning these reserves, we can further isolate Russia from the world’s economy and increase the difficulty of Putin’s increasingly-costly military campaign," King said in a statement.


Russia began furiously stockpiling gold in 2014, when the U.S. sanctioned the Kremlin over its annexation of Crimea, more than doubling its holdings. Moscow stopped buying gold in 2020 when the COVID-19 pandemic pushed prices sky-high, but announced last month that it would resume buying from domestic producers. 

There is concern that Russia could use its gold reserves to shore up the ruble and evade the global sanctions intended to penalize the Kremlin over its invasion of Ukraine nearly one month ago, the biggest attack on a European state in decades.





Demonstrators protest the Russian invasion of Ukraine in Lisbon on Feb. 27, 2022. (AP Photo/Ana Brigida / AP Newsroom)
The raft of sanctions from the West includes cutting off a key part of the Central Bank of Russia by preventing it from selling dollars, euros and other foreign currencies in its roughly $630 billion reserve stockpile; blocking certain financial institutions from the Swift messaging system for international payments; and sanctioning some of the Russian elites who have close ties to President Vladimir Putin.

*GET FOX BUSINESS ON THE GO BY CLICKING HERE*

The U.S. also ordered a ban on Russian oil imports.

A bipartisan group of House lawmakers, including Reps. Elissa Slotkin, D-Mich, Mikie Sherrill, D-N.J., Peter Meijer, R-Mich., Susie Lee, D-Nev., Joe Wilson, R-S.C., and Brian Fitzpatrick, R-Pa., have introduced a companion bill to freeze Russian gold.

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## Paul2

Wood said:


> While it is possible for Russia to mount another offensive of equal proportion, I think doing so will deplete them of their reserves significantly. That will leave them vulnerable. Not worth to do that especially under their current economic conditions.



Even if Russia will be pushed to the border, they can keep ranged aggression for a very long time.

The only 2 counters to that:

Build completely impermeable air defence
Gain counterstrike ability on enemy airfields, rockets, artillery
With the current state of Ukrainian economy, and industry, both of these can only be provided by the West.


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## F-22Raptor

Wood said:


> You have a tough job. Lot of people need baby sitting here
> 
> 
> This is 75% of staged BTGS right?




75% of their TOTAL BTGs. This is confirmed by the Pentagon.

Any other reserves they'd call upon after those are mostly untrained cannon fodder.

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## mmr

dBSPL said:


> When you are neutral...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506659304505495556


This is interesting. But good for turkey.


----------



## Wood

Paul2 said:


> Even if Russia will be pushed to the border, they can keep ranged aggression for a very long time.
> 
> The only 2 counters to that:
> 
> Build completely impermeable air defence
> Gain counterstrike ability on enemy airfields, rockets, artillery
> With the current state of Ukrainian economy, and industry, both of these can only be provided by the West.


An American general said on CNN that it will take 1 year for the Ukrainians to be armed and trained with Patriot missile defense system. So I don't that Ukrainians are going to have this 'impermeable' defense anytime soon. In fact, I don't think that they will manage to push Russians completely back before Putin agrees to some sort of negotiation.


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## Muhammed45

dBSPL said:


> When you are neutral...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506659304505495556


It is not neutrality, it is more of milking process in which Turks are doing well. Hope it doesn't anger each and everyone out there.


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## dBSPL

20 year old Unimogs? Dude even Russia is giving Ukraine newer vehicles.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506999506323316739


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## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> I have been watching this disturbing clips of people tied to polls for a while now. I do not think they are tied cause they are drug addicts , but most likely because they where looting.
> 
> Woman said " i will not do it again " , so she admits she has done something.
> 
> Maybe drug addicts maybe not , but some take the advantage of the fact that many houses are empty and deserted to loot.
> 
> Police is not present so citizens take the law into their own hands.
> 
> Just my assumption.
> 
> Anyone else thought ?
> 
> 
> ~


in that case it was better to also show looted things.
what i see in these videos is that some people tied to poles in freezing weather , in some case their clothes teared and they are naked or half naked . I even saw videos that they are attacking Roma women with large Dildos . what's your explanation for them

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## dBSPL

If this news is true, the Ukrainian troops around Irpin deserves big respect.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506999614783823875

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506945619977551875

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## thetutle

Hack-Hook said:


> in that case it was better to also show looted things.
> what i see in these videos is that some people tied to poles in freezing weather , in some case their clothes teared and they are naked or half naked . I even saw videos that they are attacking Roma women with large Dildos . what's your explanation for them


Ukranian police and army dont have to answer to you. or anyone how they treat criminals. Noone cares. All the world acres is how much they punish russia.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506946001973784584

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## Wood

Putin Adviser Chubais Quits Over Ukraine War and Leaves Russia


Russian climate envoy Anatoly Chubais has stepped down and left the country, citing his opposition to President Vladimir Putin’s war in Ukraine, according to two people familiar with the situation, becoming the highest-level official to break with the Kremlin over the invasion.




www.bloomberg.com







> _*Russian climate envoy Anatoly Chubais has stepped down and left the country, citing his opposition to President Vladimir Putin’s war in Ukraine, according to two people familiar with the situation, becoming the highest-level official to break with the Kremlin over the invasion.*_


----------



## Foinikas

Ukrainian women have to leave their men who are going to the war 😢 Oh how sad! Oh where is the world!

Wait a minute...

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## oberschlesier

Khan vilatey said:


> I still don’t understand why the Russians don’t secure the Ukrainian border with Poland , hungry and others since all sorts of resupply is flowing from there. At least fly air strikes on the resupply route
> 
> K


1. Russia does not have the forces to do it. 
2. Belarussia does not want to attack, as this would lead to a uprising or at least Sabotage to the Russian rear. 
3. Attacking through the swamps of Polesie ( North - West Ukraine ) is difficult and could lead to "Kiev convoi 2.0".

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## dBSPL

Traditional fake sincerity photo shoot

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506969668589965313(There are details that make you laugh, such as Boris Johnson jumping two steps down when he sees Erdogan and Macron, and Macron pressing everyone's shoulders with his 1.60 height.)

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507012290536566788

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## Ich

Wood said:


> I don't live in Germany and don't speak German. I do work with quite a few German people and I do not have the impression that Germany is a security state from them. So, this is what I (an average person who resides in the west) believes to be true.



Ah, ok. An example: There was a demo with 40000 people against war in Ukrain some days ago. No distancing, only few masks, but hey, it was allowed cause it was also against russia. A day later a demo with some hundreds people (with distancing) against forced vaccination was brocken up/forbidden by police cause it was against german gov oppinion. There is no free society in Germany if you do not have the same opinion as the gov.

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## oberschlesier

dBSPL said:


> 20 year old Unimogs? Dude even Russia is giving Ukraine newer vehicles.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506999506323316739


20 year old Mercedes is worth more, than a new Kamaz... or Lada Kalina

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## Foinikas

dBSPL said:


> Traditional fake sincerity photo shoot
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506969668589965313(There are details that make you laugh, such as Boris Johnson jumping two steps down when he sees Erdogan and Macron, and Macron pressing everyone's shoulders with his 1.60 height.)


Ah it's the freemason club


----------



## thetutle

dBSPL said:


> Traditional fake sincerity photo shoot
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506969668589965313(There are details that make you laugh, such as Boris Johnson jumping two steps down when he sees Erdogan and Macron, and Macron pressing everyone's shoulders with his 1.60 height.)


Biden goes straight for Boris and Erdogan.

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## Wood

Ich said:


> Ah, ok. An example: There was a demo with 40000 people against war in Ukrain some days ago. No distancing, only few masks, but hey, it was allowed cause it was also against russia. A day later a demo with some hundreds people (with distancing) against forced vaccination was brocken up/forbidden by police cause it was against german gov oppinion. There is no free society in Germany if you do not have the same opinion as the gov.


Well, at least these people who protested against vaccination do not end up in jail for 15 years. So I hope that will count for something


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## dBSPL

oberschlesier said:


> 20 year old Mercedes is worth more, than a new Kamaz... or Lada Kalina


Kamaz's Typhoon MRAP vehicles are not bad, Ukraine has seized several in working condition. Also, a large number of Rys/IVECO LMVs were seized. In other words, the Russians do not only leave scrap, they can also lose very useful vehicles with good condition.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507014588025298945

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## dBSPL

thetutle said:


> Biden goes straight for Boris and Erdogan.


Yes, all can get an idea about the geopolitical importance and military power of the countries in NATO only in this 2-minute video.


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## thetutle

Foinikas said:


> Ah it's the freemason club


Its the nato club. more powerful than Freemasons, because Freemasons dont have nukes. 

Also I see 2 women. they are not Freemasons. also polish and Croatian presidents are not freemasons. they are openly catholic and catholic Freemasons cant receive communion. So they are definitely not Freemasons.


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## Foinikas

thetutle said:


> Its the nato club. more powerful than Freemasons, because Freemasons dont have nukes.
> 
> Also I see 2 women. they are not Freemasons. also polish and Croatian presidents are not freemasons. they are openly catholic and catholic Freemasons cant receive communion. So they are definitely not Freemasons.


Freemasons/Zionists control most of these countries,these countries are in NATO so there you have it.

I'm not saying all of them are,but even if they were,do you think they would tell the priest?

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## oberschlesier

dBSPL said:


> Kamaz's Typhoon MRAP vehicles are not bad, Ukraine has seized several in working condition. Also, a large number of Rys/IVECO LMVs were seized. In other words, the Russians do not only leave scrap, they can also lose very useful vehicles with good condition.


Sure, agree. Just did not wanted to waste the opportunity to make a joke about Lada Kalina  
Kamaz has many western components and WAS supported by Daimler. These trucks are not bad.
When it comes to vehicles, Russia is now the biggest supplier to Ukraine.


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## Hack-Hook

thetutle said:


> Ukranian police and army dont have to answer to you. or anyone how they treat criminals. Noone cares. All the world acres is how much they punish russia.


well , they are welcome , me and the rest of the world see criminal act by ultranationalists , now wonder who is to blame
by the way no police or army in videos


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## Ich

Wood said:


> Well, at least these people who protested against vaccination do not end up in jail for 15 years. So I hope that will count for something


Wrong. The police arrested a lot of them. You also lose your job if you are against vaccination. Or if you live over 20 years in Germany as russian and then lose your job cause you are russian. And a lot more nasty things happen here.

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## thetutle

Foinikas said:


> Freemasons/Zionists control most of these countries,these countries are in NATO so there you have it.
> 
> I'm not saying all of them are,but even if they were,do you think they would tell the priest?


The church knows these things, They would know if a president freemason is trying to get communion to appeal to the masses. They would not allow it. 

Pope has ruled on this. It's very clear.



Ich said:


> Wrong. The police arrested a lot of them. You also lose your job if you are against vaccination. Or if you live over 20 years in Germany as russian and then lose your job cause you are russian. And a lot more nasty things happen here.


I am liking germany more and more.


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## alimobin memon

Man just make an understanding and stop war now. Many lives wasted already.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507023349855268869

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506986617730486277
Ukrainian Special Ops night vision gear is way beyond Russian capability.

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506760033509560331

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## Chagai-I

Ukraine is just the trigger. And it is a cooperative effort by Russia and China together, as hinted at by the joint statement they released just a couple weeks before the invasion, to collapse everything economically so to level a western-biased playing field and restructure global security architecture from the ground up.

Putin is abandoning the dollar and the sanctions that come with it. He’s trying to corner nations with energy since he knows Europe is reliant on it. This is a smart political move by Putin whether you like the guy or not. Just the beginning, once China and other oil rich nations follow suit, it becomes a cartel on exports to in need rich countries for every good and energy source.

US hegemony collapsing in the blink of an eye.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507031773158518800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506998521622315012

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## Wood

thetutle said:


> Ivan Krastev on Russia's Invasion of Ukraine: "Putin Lives in Historic Analogies and Metaphors"
> 
> 
> Political scientist Ivan Krastev is an astute observer of Vladimir Putin. In an interview, he speaks of the Russian president's isolation, his understanding of Russian history and how he has become a prisoner of his own rhetoric.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.spiegel.de


This was a very interesting read! If assumed to be true, it explains Putin's actions very well 

It would be great if Putin can read this opinion piece about him and write a comment

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506892730273865729

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## thetutle

Chagai-I said:


> Putin is abandoning the dollar and the sanctions that come with it.


Oh so he's abandoning the dollar, and not the dollar abandoning him?

Too bad he had $650 billion dollars in holdings when he abandoned the dollar. 

Will he be abandoning gold as well? because they are about to seize that too.

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## Foinikas

thetutle said:


> The church knows these things, They would know if a president freemason is trying to get communion to appeal to the masses. They would not allow it.
> 
> Pope has ruled on this. It's very clear.


Oh suddenly you know what the Pope does and how Catholics treat their leaders.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507039138935189509


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507041304391397378

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507042768526483457

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Frames of objective control of the destruction of the anti-aircraft missile system of the Armed Forces of Ukraine by high-precision ammunition



https://facebook.com/watch/?v=1137201677125365



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506920701193854985


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506975344926109702
For all the bluster of Russian pride, I've noticed average Russians (in the west) take to American culture with welcome.


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## Meengla

dBSPL said:


> Because there are arbitrary practices without any legal basis. The 'trust' has been completely destroyed.



Correct.
And a time is not far away when Saudi Arabia and other countries with US Dollars reserves will start to move their assets to places where 'a flick of a pen' won't freeze their assets because of those countries' independent geopolitics. It could theoretically happen to ANY country which would cross the American geopolitics.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507039138935189509




MoD Russia, [3/24/2022 3:20 AM]
🇷🇺🇺🇦 Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

▫️The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation.

*▫️By the morning of March 24, the units of the Russian Armed Forces took control Izyum city in Kharkov region.*

▫️On the evening of March 23 and on the night of March 24, high-precision long-range sea- and air-based weapons attacked military facilities of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

*▫️As a result of strikes, 13 launchers of anti-aircraft missile systems were destroyed, including 9 S-300 and 4 Buk-M1 in Danilovka, south of Kiev, formation headquarters and missile and artillery weapons depot in Bakhmut, Donetsk region, as well as a temporary deployment point of the nationalist battalion in Lisichansk city.*

✈️💥Operational-tactical and army aviation hit 60 military assets of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Among them: 2 command posts, 2 multiple launch rocket systems, 4 ammunition depots, 47 areas of concentration of equipment and military hardware of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

💥Russian Air Defence means shot down 2 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles near Staraya Markovka and Kharkov.

💥In total, 257 unmanned aerial vehicles, 202 anti-aircraft missile systems, 1,572 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 160 multiple launch rocket systems, 633 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,379 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.

❗️☣️The Russian Defence Ministry continues to study documents received from employees of Ukrainian laboratories about secret military biological activities of the United States in Ukraine.

▫️Experts of the Russian Nuclear, Biological and Chemical protection troops during the study of documents revealed new facts proving the direct involvement of the US Department of Defence in the development of biological weapons components in Ukraine.

▫️In the near future, we will show original documents demonstrating that UP-2 biological project, which we have already talked about, was developed and approved by the Pentagon. The main objective of this project was to carry out a molecular analysis of particularly dangerous infections endemic to Ukraine. This work involved sampling the pathogen from old animal burial grounds to obtain new anthrax strains.

▫️However, the Pentagon's experiments were not limited to the development of dangerous infections. For example, a pharmaceutical company contracted by the US Department of Defence, according to documents obtained, was working with the Ukrainian Defence Ministry to test unregistered medical drugs specifically on Ukrainian servicemen.

▫️We will tell you about these and other documented facts in the near future within a special briefing.

#Russia #Ukraine #Briefing 
@mod_russia_en


----------



## Piotr

Chagai-I said:


> Ukraine is just the trigger. And it is a cooperative effort by Russia and China together, as hinted at by the joint statement they released just a couple weeks before the invasion, to collapse everything economically so to level a western-biased playing field and restructure global security architecture from the ground up.
> 
> Putin is abandoning the dollar and the sanctions that come with it. He’s trying to corner nations with energy since he knows Europe is reliant on it. This is a smart political move by Putin whether you like the guy or not. Just the beginning, once China and other oil rich nations follow suit, it becomes a cartel on exports to in need rich countries for every good and energy source.
> 
> US hegemony collapsing in the blink of an eye.



USA is going to be badly affected, but the biggest loser is going to be Germany. Germany is much more dependend on exports than eg. China or USA. Higher energy prices will make lot of German products uncompetitive. US-founded coup against democratically elected president Yanukovich of the Ukraine to drive the wedge between Russia and Germany. Victoria Nuland explainded this by saying "**** the EU".
Current crisis is in some ways beneficial for USA (at least for US Military Industrial Complex and US Gas Industry).












Russia on the other hand is going to benefit from Western sanctons in the long run.

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## Iron Shrappenel

Found thi gem lol

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## mmr

UK will 'ramp up lethal aid' to Ukraine, Johnson says​*Boris Johnson said the UK and allies would “ramp up lethal aid to Ukraine” in a news conference in Brussels.*
Speaking to reporters after a meeting of G7 leaders, he said he had rarely seen nations more united in recent years than we are now.
Vladimir Putin’s “barbaric” invasion of Ukraine has galvanised the international community into collective action, Johnson said.


> We will not stand by while Putin vents his fury on Ukraine.


Johnson said kit would be provided “in the quantity and with the quality” needed by Ukraine to defend against “its bullying neighbour”.


> *This is just the beginning.*
> We must support a free and democratic Ukraine in the long term. This is a fellow European democracy, fighting a war of national defence, Nato and G7 leaders.











News, sport and opinion from the Guardian's global edition | The Guardian


Latest international news, sport and comment from the Guardian




www.theguardian.com

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Ukrainians mined the whole countryside in Kherson region without mapping them and without any concerns for the civilians who would walk over the land. The Russian military is now removing the mines from the territory they drove out of the Ukrainian military. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506884646746968064

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507041304391397378
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507042768526483457




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507043397818855431
Russian IVECO LMV destroyed,most likely belonged to special forces

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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> Correct.
> And a time is not far away when Saudi Arabia and other countries with US Dollars reserves will start to move their assets to places where 'a flick of a pen' won't freeze their assets because of those countries' independent geopolitics. It could theoretically happen to ANY country which would cross the American geopolitics.


One thing the Arabs definitely wont do is invest in their own countries and their own industries. Because when they get regime changed they want to be able to access that money. 

I say let them keep it in African and Indian banks. No need for London and New York.

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## Vergennes

In areas occupied by the Russia,its army have to face constant attacks and ambushes from partisans. One by one,supply trucks are attacked. 

Partisans have ambushed a Russian army supply truck,one soldier was captured. Seems the others fled.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507047561810653193


----------



## Wood



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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507043397818855431
> Russian IVECO LMV destroyed,most likely belonged to special forces
> 
> View attachment 826926
> 
> View attachment 826927




None of them have the "Z"or "V" signs. More of the false propaganda coming from the Ukrainian side.


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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> None of them have the "Z"or "V" signs. More of the false propaganda coming from the Ukrainian side.



Shows you know jack sh/t about the Russian army you are masturbating on every single day. "O" written on the vehicles means Russian forces who attacked from Belarus.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> In areas occupied by the Russia,its army have to face constant attacks and ambushes from partisans. One by one,supply trucks are attacked.
> 
> Partisans have ambushed a Russian army supply truck,one soldier was captured. Seems the others fled.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507047561810653193





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507014994667323400


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## thetutle

if he does use nukes it will be in Poland or a nato staging area.


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## Vergennes

Vergennes said:


> Shows you know jack sh/t about the Russian army you are masturbating on every single day. "O" written on the vehicles means Russian forces who attacked from Belarus.
> 
> View attachment 826929




@Hassan Al-Somal What do you have to answer ?


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## oberschlesier

Piotr said:


> USA is going to be badly affected, but the biggest loser is going to be Germany. Germany is much more dependend on exports than eg. China or USA. Higher energy prices will make lot of German products uncompetitive. US-founded coup against democratically elected president Yanukovich of the Ukraine to drive the wedge between Russia and Germany. Victoria Nuland explainded this by saying "**** the EU".
> Current crisis is in some ways beneficial for USA (at least for US Military Industrial Complex and US Gas Industry).
> View attachment 826916
> 
> 
> View attachment 826918
> 
> 
> 
> Russia on the other hand is going to benefit from Western sanctons in the long run.


Nice propaganda.
Of courese, Russia will hugely benefit from the Western sactions. For example they might even restart the production of Lada Kalina Again!

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> @Hassan Al-Somal What do you have to answer ?
> 
> View attachment 826931
> 
> View attachment 826930




None of it says Russian nor shows troops with Russian camouflage operating them. Get over the lame propaganda, even the US military no longer believes the Ukrainian claims. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506725015957430285


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## oberschlesier

thetutle said:


> if he does use nukes it will be in Poland or a nato staging area.


This will not solve the Ukraine problem for the Russians. They will never capitulate and after this war they will hate them for generations.


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## thetutle

oberschlesier said:


> This will not solve the Ukraine problem for the Russians. They will never capitulate and after this war they will hate them for generations.


No but it will escalate and maybe deter some countries from sending arms. Putin always escalates. He's a gambler.


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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> None of it says Russian nor shows troops with Russian camouflage operating them. Get over the lame propaganda, even the US military no longer believes the Ukrainian claims.



Answer my above post of Russian vehicles marked with "O" instead of replying with garbage denial claims you are so cringe.

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## Piotr

oberschlesier said:


> Nice propaganda.
> Of courese, Russia will hugely benefit from the Western sactions. For example they might even restart the production of Lada Kalina Again!
> 
> View attachment 826932



The West already introduced multiple sanctions against Russia in 2008, 2011 and 2014. Those sanctions were in many ways beneficial for Russia, especialy for agriculture.






The World is big. Russia can live without Renault. Population of the World is 7,7 billion people, countries that introduced sanctions against Russia represent about 1 billion people that is small minority.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

thetutle said:


> One thing the Arabs definitely wont do is invest in their own countries and their own industries. Because when they get regime changed they want to be able to access that money.
> 
> I say let them keep it in African and Indian banks. No need for London and New York.




The hadith of every other currency failing and gold and silver being the final currency will be fullfilled. How much gold and silver you have will be the final currency. The paper money was fraudulent, anyway.



oberschlesier said:


> This will not solve the Ukraine problem for the Russians. They will never capitulate and after this war they will hate them for generations.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506727666501701641

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> I think the question now is really what the West will do. Ukrainians are now capable at most to enforce the stalemate, and maybe pushing Russians to the border in Kiyv.
> 
> Time really benefits Russians with their slow logistics. Even if 40% of Russian military assets were thrown on Ukraine, and they were wiped out to the last, Russia still has resources for 1 more land offensive, and Russian generals will try to not to bungle it as hard as the first one just out of sheer sense of self-preservation.
> 
> Ukrainian military assets, and cohesion are getting depleted no question about that.
> 
> UAF priority is now to inflict as much damage until summer begins, and to turn as much territorials into real soldiers.


The key is April. Actually, the key is for the Russian to take Mariupol before April.

Why April? April is where their initial conscript contract run out, so on April 1, there are going to be an influx of new conscript and most likely being send to battle like the last batch. Now, knowing what they know, that it was a war going on since Late Feb, would you want to be in that war?

While it is true that Russia have a lot of Troop, 900,000 standing and up to 2 millions reserve is the last conservative estimation. But you also need to remember Russia is one giant piece of landmass, which mean they would also need a lot of station force. That mean for a new rotation, there are only 1 out of 3 ways they could go

1.) The Cheap Skate way, do something like the "Stop-Loss" policy like the American did during Iraq and Afghanistan , extend the contract for the original conscript and have them stay put in the battlefield. Then you don't need to raise a lot of troop to fill the gap

2.) Mobilise the reserve, which is a sensible thing to do, but that mean it takes time to get them up to combat ready level. 

3.) Send in the ready to go regular troop, That's the quickest way, but it take defensive power off Russia.

Now, all 3 solution would heavily depends on whether or not the Russia have any strategic gain, which at this point the closest is Mariupol. If they cannot take it before the April 1 rotation, that will present a problem for the Russian. Because assuming the normal Russian was not fed any information on the front line, they would still have know Putin have declare a Special Military Operation (And more or less by banning the word war, everyone would know this is actually a war) Which mean if nothing was gain for the 5 or 6 weeks operation, morale is going to drop. If this is the case, then option 1 and 2 would not cut it, it will most likely end up like the first batch.

Which is realistically the only people Russia can send is their regular. But would Putin willing to risk Russia national security 

On the other hand, on the Ukrainian side, the longer they hold out, the longer they will give the Russian some thought about whether or not this war is worth it. Don't get me wrong, Russia sheer combat power trump Ukrainian, so if the Russian do not let go and do this day and night with multiple rotation, then at some point they are going to have the advantage over the Ukrainian. And it would be Ukrainian job to make the Russia reach this point as late as possible and as costly as possible. And force them into a negotiation table.


----------



## oberschlesier

Piotr said:


> The West already introduced multiple sanctions against Russia in 2008, 2011 and 2014. Those sanctions were in many ways beneficial for Russia, especialy for agriculture.
> 
> View attachment 826933
> 
> 
> The World is big. Russia can live without Renault. Population of the World is 7,7 billion people, countries that introduced sanctions against Russia represent about 1 billion people that is small minority.


It`s not a BMW isn`t it ?


----------



## jamal18

Current situation. Good report.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507054286441754625

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507054286441754625





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506984014762102787

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## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The hadith of every other currency failing and gold and silver being the final currency will be fullfilled. How much gold and silver you have will be the final currency. The paper money was fraudulent, anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506727666501701641


and following your logic how do you know they didnt dress him like this for propaganda reasons ? where is your profffffffff its real ?

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## Foinikas

Piotr said:


> USA is going to be badly affected, but the biggest loser is going to be Germany. Germany is much more dependend on exports than eg. China or USA. Higher energy prices will make lot of German products uncompetitive. US-founded coup against democratically elected president Yanukovich of the Ukraine to drive the wedge between Russia and Germany. Victoria Nuland explainded this by saying "**** the EU".
> Current crisis is in some ways beneficial for USA (at least for US Military Industrial Complex and US Gas Industry).
> View attachment 826916
> 
> 
> View attachment 826918
> 
> 
> 
> Russia on the other hand is going to benefit from Western sanctons in the long run.


Just imagine how much money the defence companies are making right now!

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## Hassan Al-Somal

bobo6661 said:


> and following your logic how do you know they didnt dress him like this for propaganda reasons ? where is your profffffffff its real ?





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506986401627361280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506986407440654341


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507058325455880196


----------



## Primus

Okay im confused. 

Has Ukraine counter attacked and taken back Izyum, or is Russia still in control. Because im seeing contradicting reports right now


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## Piotr

Foinikas said:


> Just imagine how much money the defence companies are making right now!



And US shale oil/gas is making a comeback. US banks that lend money to shale oil/gas are happy too, while the EU is suffering.
The EU is major competitor for the USA. Like Airbus is major competitor for Boeing.

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## oberschlesier

thetutle said:


> No but it will escalate and maybe deter some countries from sending arms. Putin always escalates. He's a gambler.


This does not solve the Ukraine problem and adds new problem: NATO. What is his next move ? escalate again ? He is a KGB Colonel, he blackmails and threatens.


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## Vergennes

bobo6661 said:


> and following your logic how do you know they didnt dress him like this for propaganda reasons ? where is your profffffffff its real ?



No no this guy's logic is "Everything Russia says is true,I don't need any proofs,but I need evidence of Ukrainian claims,and even with proofs I don't trust it". Talking to him is like talking to a wall.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506958752481783813

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## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506986401627361280
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506986407440654341


Ok so no prof just some random twett with guyes that could be payed for saying it ? Saying that only ukraine info is fake and "yours" is the good one undermindes your own ...


----------



## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507058325455880196


They made it out. Bottom tank hatch was open


----------



## thetutle

Huffal said:


> Okay im confused.
> 
> Has Ukraine counter attacked and taken back Izyum, or is Russia still in control. Because im seeing contradicting reports right now


the whole war will be one contradicting report after another.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Huffal said:


> Okay im confused.
> 
> Has Ukraine counter attacked and taken back Izyum, or is Russia still in control. Because im seeing contradicting reports right now



"*By the morning of March 24, the units of the Russian Armed Forces took control Izyum city in Kharkov region*." - Russian Defense Ministry

It is firmly under the control of Russian forces.


----------



## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> No no this guy's logic is "Everything Russia says is true,I don't need any proofs,but I need evidence of Ukrainian claims,and even with proofs I don't trust it". Talking to him is like talking to a wall.


we don't post here for him. we dont care what he thinks.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507058325455880196



The tweet was deleted.....


----------



## Primus

thetutle said:


> the whole war will be one contradicting report after another.


Yes ive realised that. Especially regarding casualties. 

Best to wait 2-3 years from when the war is over, to finally get some truth


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> "*By the morning of March 24, the units of the Russian Armed Forces took control Izyum city in Kharkov region*." - Russian Defense Ministry
> 
> It is firmly under the control of Russian forces.


I see. So Russia fully controls Izyum then. So that either means, the report of the counter attack is false, or Russia counter attacked the Ukrainians shortly after the Ukrainian counter attack and regained it.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506958752481783813





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506920701193854985


Huffal said:


> Yes ive realised that. Especially regarding casualties.
> 
> Best to wait 2-3 years from when the war is over, to finally get some truth
> 
> I see. So Russia fully controls Izyum then. So that either means, the report of the counter attack is false, or Russia counter attacked the Ukrainians shortly after the Ukrainian counter attack and regained it.




The Russians are not exaggerating their operations; the Ukrainians are making so many claims though even though they continue toi lose territory.


----------



## Tamerlane

oberschlesier said:


> It`s not a BMW isn`t it ?



It’s quite possible to live a fulfilling life without BMW or Mercedes-Benz. In fact, I’ll never buy one of those ever again. As soon as their warranty runs out they start disintegrating and cost an arm and a leg to fix. 

A lot of what’s produced in the West consists of prestige goods that can always be replaced with cheaper and better quality alternatives.

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## oberschlesier

Tamerlane said:


> It’s quite possible to live a fulfilling live without BMW or Mercedes-Benz. In fact, I’ll never buy one of those ever again. As soon as their warranty runs out they start disintegrating and cost an arm and a leg to fix.
> 
> A lot of what’s produced in the West consists of prestige goods that can always be replaced with cheaper and better quality alternatives.


Sure, they can be replaced, Some Chinese products are really good, but still this an alternative, not a BMW.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Wood said:


> No, I'll bet that free societies will eventually outlive authoritarian regimes in one form or other. It is simply difficult to keep the mind control going through generations. Eventually the system will relax its restrictions at some time and that will result in a breakdown. Soviet Union is a good example.
> 
> Technical supremacy or wealth is not specifically tied to system of government. Germans had good tech. under Hitler and they have it now as a free society as well.


Depends on how you define free or authoritarian. Many Chinese view India as an autocratic tyranny and Russia as a free country. 

In India there's no freedom to do what you want in everyday life. You are constrained by religion, caste, poverty, tradition and crime. You have to watch where you go, who you talk to and what you say.

Meanwhile in Russia what restrictions are there in everyday life? You can eat what you want, do what you want, mostly say what you want within reason. And the things you can't say, you can't really say in India either.

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## thetutle

Huffal said:


> Yes ive realised that. Especially regarding casualties.
> 
> Best to wait 2-3 years from when the war is over, to finally get some truth


noone will ever disclose. but we can make educated guesses. Russia is 10-15k. Ukraine maybe 25k. 

in the long run it doesn't matter. No side will run out of soldiers. They will run out of money first.


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## nang2

FairAndUnbiased said:


> In India there's no freedom to do what you want in everyday life. You are constrained by religion, caste, poverty, tradition and crime. You have to watch where you go, who you talk to and what you say.


The key question here is not whether you are constrained by something. Everyone is constrained by something. The key is whether that something constrains you with violence or threat of violence.


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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507037270502739975

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507041850829512716

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## thetutle

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Depends on how you define free or authoritarian. Many Chinese view India as an autocratic tyranny and Russia as a free country.
> 
> In India there's no freedom to do what you want in everyday life. You are constrained by religion, caste, poverty, tradition and crime. You have to watch where you go, who you talk to and what you say.
> 
> Meanwhile in Russia what restrictions are there in everyday life? You can eat what you want, do what you want, mostly say what you want within reason. And the things you can't say, you can't really say in India either.


Thats a great point. Russia is a more free country than India. In russia you can have a beef burger and go out with a hindu woman without being set on fire. 

Thats a sad indictment on India.

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## FairAndUnbiased

nang2 said:


> The key question here is not whether you are constrained by something. Everyone is constrained by something. The key is whether that something constrains you with violence or threat of violence.


You mean this?









From sitting on a chair to riding a bike, Dalits are attacked for the smallest of reasons | India News - Times of India


India News: Innocuous actions, from sitting on a chair to riding a bike, have invited upper-caste wrath on Dalits who feel the latter need to be "shown their righ




timesofindia.indiatimes.com





This?









Mob beats Dalit man for touching bike belonging to upper-caste man in Karnataka


A 32-year-old Dalit man was stripped and assaulted in Vijaypura, Karnataka by a group of 13 people as reported by NDTV.




www.deccanherald.com





How about this?









Man in Tamil Nadu attacked for eating beef, four men arrested


At 3.18 pm on Thursday, 24-year-old Mohamed Fisan, a resident of Perumal Koil street in Keevaloor, Nagapattinam, posted a picture of him eating curry on Facebook. With a large piece of meat sticking from the bowl, Mohamed’s smiling picture carried the caption – "You can say a thousand things...




www.thenewsminute.com





Or this?









India's Supreme Court steps in after Hindu leaders call for violence against Muslims


Video from a meeting in northern India shows Hindu leaders calling for attacks on Muslims. The crowd included politicians with ties to Prime Minister Modi. Two men have been arrested for hate speech.




www.npr.org





Maybe this?









Inside Delhi: beaten, lynched and burnt alive


After riots left more than 40 dead in the Indian capital, we visit homes and hospitals to examine the consequences of the religious hatred stoked by a nationalist government




www.theguardian.com

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506890621675524096

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## Hydration

Foinikas said:


> Just imagine how much money the defence companies are making right now!


hezbollah style greece in arabic pfp? thats weird

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## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506890621675524096


a stable genius. like his friend.


----------



## nang2

FairAndUnbiased said:


> You mean this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From sitting on a chair to riding a bike, Dalits are attacked for the smallest of reasons | India News - Times of India
> 
> 
> India News: Innocuous actions, from sitting on a chair to riding a bike, have invited upper-caste wrath on Dalits who feel the latter need to be "shown their righ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> timesofindia.indiatimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mob beats Dalit man for touching bike belonging to upper-caste man in Karnataka
> 
> 
> A 32-year-old Dalit man was stripped and assaulted in Vijaypura, Karnataka by a group of 13 people as reported by NDTV.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.deccanherald.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man in Tamil Nadu attacked for eating beef, four men arrested
> 
> 
> At 3.18 pm on Thursday, 24-year-old Mohamed Fisan, a resident of Perumal Koil street in Keevaloor, Nagapattinam, posted a picture of him eating curry on Facebook. With a large piece of meat sticking from the bowl, Mohamed’s smiling picture carried the caption – "You can say a thousand things...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thenewsminute.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India's Supreme Court steps in after Hindu leaders call for violence against Muslims
> 
> 
> Video from a meeting in northern India shows Hindu leaders calling for attacks on Muslims. The crowd included politicians with ties to Prime Minister Modi. Two men have been arrested for hate speech.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.npr.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inside Delhi: beaten, lynched and burnt alive
> 
> 
> After riots left more than 40 dead in the Indian capital, we visit homes and hospitals to examine the consequences of the religious hatred stoked by a nationalist government
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com


That is right. Violence unchecked by the law is equal to the violence in the name of the law.

I am curious to see if you can find such examples about the poverty you listed before.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

nang2 said:


> That is right. Violence unchecked by the law is equal to the violence in the name of the law.
> 
> I am curious to see if you can find such examples about the poverty you listed before.


You mean freedom constrained by poverty? Sure. I covered violence, caste and religion so let's do poverty.









There are more modern-day slaves living in India than anywhere else on Earth


Many of them are women and children being sold into the sex trade.




theworld.org













Confined, beaten and denied leave - but not seen as a slave in India


Tens of thousands of slavery survivors in India who were confined, abused and exploited at work are denied compensation because officials are often ignorant of the law - with police sending 60 workers they rescued home empty-handed this week.




www.reuters.com













This is what it means to be poor in India today


My country’s growing wealth hasn’t trickled down. Just ask Amina, who lives in a slum in the shadow of one of India’s glitziest shopping malls.




www.cnn.com







https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/04/india-covid19-moral-failure/618702/











India is home to the world’s largest slave population (Yes, slavery still exists)


In the past, the desire for sugar drove the growth in slavery. Today, the global consumption of electronic goods is the primary culprit.




scroll.in


----------



## dBSPL

Italian Prime Minister Draghi: "We have decided to make the group between Turkey, France and Italy functional again. We will start tripartite talks soon"

While Russia is increasing its pressure on Europe, it is also creating a geopolitics that accelerates Turkey's breaking the ice with the EU.

If Turkey can be included in the Pesco programs as well as re-operating the bilateral and tripartite mechanisms with France and Italy; The 'anti-Turkey bloc' design that some regional factors are trying to shape against Turkey will have completely collapsed. One of the most important outputs of the Russia-Ukraine war is that Turkey has created the opportunity to reshape some issues in its region.

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## nang2

FairAndUnbiased said:


> You mean freedom constrained by poverty? Sure. I covered violence, caste and religion so let's do poverty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are more modern-day slaves living in India than anywhere else on Earth
> 
> 
> Many of them are women and children being sold into the sex trade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theworld.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Confined, beaten and denied leave - but not seen as a slave in India
> 
> 
> Tens of thousands of slavery survivors in India who were confined, abused and exploited at work are denied compensation because officials are often ignorant of the law - with police sending 60 workers they rescued home empty-handed this week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what it means to be poor in India today
> 
> 
> My country’s growing wealth hasn’t trickled down. Just ask Amina, who lives in a slum in the shadow of one of India’s glitziest shopping malls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/04/india-covid19-moral-failure/618702/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India is home to the world’s largest slave population (Yes, slavery still exists)
> 
> 
> In the past, the desire for sugar drove the growth in slavery. Today, the global consumption of electronic goods is the primary culprit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> scroll.in


That is the consequence of being poor. But does poverty employ violence to force people act that way?


----------



## Tamerlane

dBSPL said:


> Italian Prime Minister Draghi: "We have decided to make the group between Turkey, France and Italy functional again. We will start tripartite talks soon"
> 
> While Russia is increasing its pressure on Europe, it is also creating a geopolitics that accelerates Turkey's breaking the ice with the EU.
> 
> If Turkey can be included in the Pesco programs as well as re-operating the bilateral and tripartite mechanisms with France and Italy; The 'anti-Turkey bloc' design that some regional factors are trying to shape against Turkey will have completely collapsed.



Does that mean that they’re going to finally accept Turkey in EU?

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## dBSPL

Tamerlane said:


> Does that mean that they’re going to finally accept Turkey in EU?


No, what I am talking about is not full membership to the EU. After this point, Turkey never wants to limit itself to the EU.

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## Primus

thetutle said:


> noone will ever disclose. but we can make educated guesses. Russia is 10-15k. Ukraine maybe 25k.
> 
> in the long run it doesn't matter. No side will run out of soldiers. They will run out of money first.


No those guesses are waaay too absurd. 

Looking at everything weve seen so far, i wouldve said russia stands at anywhere from 7k kia to 9k kia. 

Ukraine anywhere from 13k+

Those figures for Ukraine are Conservative on my end

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## beast89

Tamerlane said:


> Seems to me like Zelensky’s next speech will be in Aramaic and he’ll announce that he’s Jesus Christ.


and it will work !

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507060388869058563


----------



## coffee_cup

Piotr said:


> And US shale oil/gas is making a comeback. US banks that lend money to shale oil/gas are happy too, while the EU is suffering.
> The EU is major competitor for the USA. Like Airbus is major competitor for Boeing.



This is actually a very good point.

Looking at how the things are going, all of sudden the resistance to buying American gas in Germany is vanishing. The US gas will become affordable compare to Russian gas due to all the sanctions.

So who are the real big winners here?

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## F-22Raptor

The US should provide Ukraine with M270 MLRS along with ATACMs missiles

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## mmr

Vergennes said:


> No no this guy's logic is "Everything Russia says is true,I don't need any proofs,but I need evidence of Ukrainian claims,and even with proofs I don't trust it". Talking to him is like talking to a wall.


Dont waste your time 

better focus on sharing updates

weather some dude from somalia accept or not should not be an issue lol


----------



## Foinikas

Hydration said:


> hezbollah style greece in arabic pfp? thats weird


I made this for fun some years ago 😂



F-22Raptor said:


> View attachment 826945
> 
> 
> 
> The US should provide Ukraine with M270 MLRS along with ATACMs missiles


That's escalation. Russia should bomb all weapons shipments as soon as they enter Ukrainian territory.

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## dBSPL

Retreating Russian landing ships, just another epic moment in the Russian Ukrainan war:

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507045265487716358


mmr said:


> Dont waste your time
> 
> better focus on sharing updates
> 
> weather some dude from somalia accept or not should not be an issue lol



Or from Bangladesh for that matter lol

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## Piotr

coffee_cup said:


> This is actually a very good point.
> 
> Looking at how the things are going, all of sudden the resistance to buying American gas in Germany is vanishing. The US gas will become affordable compare to Russian gas due to all the sanctions.
> 
> So who are the real big winners here?



USA is big winner.






USA and England founded Hitler and made a lot of money from World War 2, now they are trying to repeat this.

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## jamal18

coffee_cup said:


> This is actually a very good point.
> 
> Looking at how the things are going, all of sudden the resistance to buying American gas in Germany is vanishing. The US gas will become affordable compare to Russian gas due to all the sanctions.
> 
> So who are the real big winners here?


American gas is massively expensive. It also requires gas terminals which have yet to be built.

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## mmr

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507045265487716358
> 
> 
> Or from Bangladesh for that matter lol


I am not asking for any proof lol

mods should challenge if its fake news on a forum


----------



## Wood

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Depends on how you define free or authoritarian. Many Chinese view India as an autocratic tyranny and Russia as a free country.
> 
> In India there's no freedom to do what you want in everyday life. You are constrained by religion, caste, poverty, tradition and crime. You have to watch where you go, who you talk to and what you say.
> 
> Meanwhile in Russia what restrictions are there in everyday life? You can eat what you want, do what you want, mostly say what you want within reason. And the things you can't say, you can't really say in India either.


Funny how my innocuous post triggered insecurities of the unintended 

As someone who has only lived in a democratic society, I prefer to keep to only in such countries. India is a flawed democracy, but I will prefer the political freedom it offers over Russia or China. I never stop to think what a Chinese may think, as I never care for them


----------



## dBSPL

The UN General Assembly's call for Russia to end the war in Ukraine was approved by 140 votes to 5.

In the vote for the non-binding resolution, 38 countries abstained, while Russia, Syria, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Eritrea and Belarus opposed the resolution.


----------



## Foinikas

Piotr said:


> USA and England founded Hitler and made a lot of money from World War 2, now they are trying to repeat this.


How exactly did USA and England "founded" Hitler? Come on,let's get serious.

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## oberschlesier

Foinikas said:


> How exactly did USA and England "founded" Hitler? Come on,let's get serious.


This guy is sending and spreading propaganda. He is so much polish as I`m from Nicaragua.

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## dBSPL

oberschlesier said:


> This guy is sending and spreading propaganda. He is so much polish as I`m from Nicaragua.


False flags in PDF are a common practice on propaganda accounts.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507079555961532421

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## Wood

dBSPL said:


> False flags in PDF are a common practice on propaganda accounts.


I've begun to realize this recently. Very surprising that people would go through the trouble of setting such accounts here. Not enough reward for the time spent

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## FairAndUnbiased

Wood said:


> Funny how my innocuous post triggered insecurities of the unintended
> 
> As someone who has only lived in a democratic society, I prefer to keep to only in such countries. India is a flawed democracy, but I will prefer the political freedom it offers over Russia or China. I never stop to think what a Chinese may think, as I never care for them



Ah I see. Mob violence, lynching and slavery = just some flaws.


----------



## kingQamaR

Also Russia can ill afford to lose this ship, it is the same class of ship that Russia tried to buy two from France before they invaded Crimea and France then refused to sell them. They can no longer produce these ships them selves at a reasonable cost. They had a severe shortage of these ships already and this will be a major blow to their operations. Well done Ukraine!!!


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507077915158228996

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## oberschlesier

Piotr said:


> USA is big winner.
> View attachment 826950
> 
> 
> 
> USA and England founded Hitler and made a lot of money from World War 2, now they are trying to repeat this.


cisłeś już dzisiaj rano kota ?


----------



## Wood

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507079555961532421


*Go, Joe *

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## FairAndUnbiased

nang2 said:


> That is the consequence of being poor. But does poverty employ violence to force people act that way?


Slavery is enforced with violence.


----------



## Wood

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Ah I see. Mob violence, lynching and slavery = just some flaws.


This has nothing to do with democratic system. You will not know it and I don't care for you to know the difference


----------



## Piotr

Foinikas said:


> How exactly did USA and England "founded" Hitler? Come on,let's get serious.



"One might recall that in 1923, the German businessman and patron of the arts, Ernst Hanfstaengl, who worked for US intelligence, helped Adolf Hitler buy a printing plant and begin mass production of his Nazi newspaper. While the Fuhrer himself was quite self-confident and raved on (literally) about revolution, he also imperceptibly absorbed Hanfstaengl’s ideas about the need for German friendship with America and Great Britain."

from: https://orientalreview.org/



oberschlesier said:


> cisłeś już dzisiaj rano kota ?



Co to ma niby znaczyć ? To w gwarze śląskiej ?


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Wood said:


> This has nothing to do with democratic system. You will not know it and I don't care for you to know the difference


I only know the end result is a profound lack of personal freedom in India.


----------



## Wood

FairAndUnbiased said:


> I only know the end result is a profound lack of personal freedom in India.


Keep telling yourself that.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507068466053976074
Americans are officially annihilating Russian tanks

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## oberschlesier

Piotr said:


> "One might recall that in 1923, the German businessman and patron of the arts, Ernst Hanfstaengl, who worked for US intelligence, helped Adolf Hitler buy a printing plant and begin mass production of his Nazi newspaper. While the Fuhrer himself was quite self-confident and raved on (literally) about revolution, he also imperceptibly absorbed Hanfstaengl’s ideas about the need for German friendship with America and Great Britain."
> 
> from: https://orientalreview.org/
> 
> 
> 
> Co to ma niby znaczyć ? To w gwarze śląskiej ?


Po gorolsku, niby jak?


----------



## LeGenD

dBSPL said:


> Retreating Russian landing ships, just another epic moment in the Russian Ukrainan war:











Russian Landing Ship Destroyed In Massive Explosion In Captured Ukrainian Port City


The explosion left one Russian amphibious ship destroyed and another running from the Ukrainian port on fire.




www.thedrive.com





@RescueRanger

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## Foinikas

Piotr said:


> "One might recall that in 1923, the German businessman and patron of the arts, Ernst Hanfstaengl, who worked for US intelligence, helped Adolf Hitler buy a printing plant and begin mass production of his Nazi newspaper. While the Fuhrer himself was quite self-confident and raved on (literally) about revolution, he also imperceptibly absorbed Hanfstaengl’s ideas about the need for German friendship with America and Great Britain."
> 
> from: https://orientalreview.org/
> 
> 
> 
> Co to ma niby znaczyć ? To w gwarze śląskiej ?


Dude...get serious.


----------



## oberschlesier

Piotr said:


> Hitler and Chamberlain in 1938:
> View attachment 826966
> 
> 
> Anyway let's go back to topic.


What does this have to do with the topic of Russian invasion of Ukraine ?


----------



## F-22Raptor

Foinikas said:


> I made this for fun some years ago 😂
> 
> 
> That's escalation. Russia should bomb all weapons shipments as soon as they enter Ukrainian territory.




Ukraine has a real opportunity to annihilate the Russian Northern axis and reenforce it’s south and East. Ukraine should have long range heavy rockets and ATACMs missiles to destroy Russian staging areas in the North and in Belarus. It’s time Ukraine received heavier weapons.


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507068466053976074
> Americans are officially annihilating Russian tanks


Videos like these may end up motivating more Americans to join the volunteer group. Many veterans may feel bored and go look for action

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## Piotr

oberschlesier said:


> What does this have to do with the topic of Russian invasion of Ukraine ?



Crisis in the Ukraine was fomented by USA with US-founded coup in the Ukraine in 2014 and World War 2 was fomented by England supporting Hitler. I point at similarities.

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraine has a real opportunity to annihilate the Russian Northern axis and reenforce it’s south and East. Ukraine should have long range heavy rockets and ATACMs missiles to destroy Russian staging areas in the North and in Belarus. It’s time Ukraine received heavier weapons.


I don't think that Ukraine will attack inside Belarus because that may motivate the unmotivated Belarus troops to launch a full scale invasion 









Poland Refuses to Pay for Russian Gas in Rubles - The Moscow Times


Poland's state energy company on Thursday said it would not pay for Russian gas in rubles, becoming the latest to reject Kremlin demands amid unprecedented sanctions on Moscow over its war in Ukraine.




www.themoscowtimes.com


----------



## Foinikas

Piotr said:


> Hitler and Chamberlain in 1938:
> View attachment 826966
> 
> 
> Anyway let's go back to topic.


OH WOW! Hitler met Chamberlain? They are allies. Putin met Obama? They are allies. Nixon shook hands with Mao? They must be friends. 

Dude,it's called politics. It's diplomacy. They meet,they talk,they sign treaties.

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## Piotr

Foinikas said:


> OH WOW! Hitler met Chamberlain? They are allies. Putin met Obama? They are allies. Nixon shook hands with Mao? They must be friends.
> 
> Dude,it's called politics. It's diplomacy. They meet,they talk,they sign treaties.



I seriously recomend you to read book "Hitler's English Inspirers" by Manuel Sarkisyanz.


----------



## oberschlesier

Piotr said:


> Crisis in the Ukraine was fomented by USA with US-founded coup in the Ukraine in 2014 and World War 2 was fomented by England supporting Hitler. I point at similarities.


Euromaidan in 2014 was about the European Union and having a better quality of life. Nothing to do with US, NATO whatever. If you would be Polish you would understand this. 

This is the real source of Euromaidan crisis:

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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507068466053976074
> Americans are officially annihilating Russian tanks




Where are the idiots on PDF that said American volunteers were afraid to fight in Ukraine and ran back to Poland? Imbeciles….

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## Piotr

oberschlesier said:


> Euromaidan in 2014 was about the European Union and having a better quality of life. Nothing to do with US, NATO whatever. If you would be Polish you would understand this.
> 
> This is the real source of Euromaidan crisis:
> 
> View attachment 826977



Victoria Nuland was giving cookies in Maidan. She admited that US founded the coup.
Maidan won and didn't bring prosperity to the Ukraine.
Below population of the Ukraine:

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## LeGenD

Piotr said:


> Crisis in the Ukraine was fomented by USA with US-founded coup in the Ukraine in 2014 and World War 2 was fomented by England supporting Hitler. I point at similarities.



Please check following post:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


A Ukrainian Town Deals Russia One of the War’s Most Decisive Routs https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-russia-voznesensk-town-battle-11647444734?st=66i3s9nsa5lnh6m&reflink=share_mobilewebshare



defence.pk


----------



## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507085157198700544

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## Piotr

LeGenD said:


> Please check following post:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> A Ukrainian Town Deals Russia One of the War’s Most Decisive Routs https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-russia-voznesensk-town-battle-11647444734?st=66i3s9nsa5lnh6m&reflink=share_mobilewebshare
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk



Cui bono ? Who benefit from crisis in the Ukraine ?


----------



## bobo6661

Piotr said:


> Victoria Nuland was giving cookies in Maidan. She admited that US founded the coup.
> Maidan won and didn't bring prosperity to the Ukraine.
> Below population of the Ukraine:


problem is even if they founded it people would just not elect them if they didnt want them in power like they did with poroszczenko who lost to a comedian


----------



## Foinikas

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraine has a real opportunity to annihilate the Russian Northern axis and reenforce it’s south and East. Ukraine should have long range heavy rockets and ATACMs missiles to destroy Russian staging areas in the North and in Belarus. It’s time Ukraine received heavier weapons.


You're eager to escalate this,I see. You're not in Europe to deal with the consequences.

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507023349855268869



Talk is cheap - he needs to get his finger out and send some from his stocks to Ukraine....


----------



## Piotr

bobo6661 said:


> problem is even if they founded it people would just not elect them if they didnt want them in power like they did with poroszczenko who lose to a comedian



There was a coup in 2014 and people in Crimea and Donbass didn't recognize this coup and seceded from the Ukraine. That is how this crisis started.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507068901649178629

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## bobo6661

Piotr said:


> There was a coup in 2014 and people in Crimea and Donbass didn't recognize this coup and seceded from the Ukraine. That is how this crisis started.


Yee like buying weapons in grocery shops whole annexation was founded by russia and nazis they sent


----------



## Wood

Video log from Irpin


----------



## Piotr

bobo6661 said:


> Yee like buying weapons in grocery shops whole annexation was founded by russia and nazis they sent



Kosovo seceding from Serbia good, Crimea seceding from the Ukraine bad ?


----------



## bobo6661

Piotr said:


> Kosovo seceding from Serbia good, Crimea seceding from the Ukraine bad ?


Kosovo became a independent country ... if Crimea would become a country like kosovo i would not have a problem ...


----------



## Piotr

bobo6661 said:


> Kosovo became a independent country ... if Crimea would become a country like kosovo i would not have a problem ...



Crimea first declared independence and only later returned to Russia.
Kosovo may one day join Albania.


----------



## kingQamaR

Piotr said:


> Crisis in the Ukraine was fomented by USA with US-founded coup in the Ukraine in 2014 and World War 2 was fomented by England supporting Hitler. I point at similarities.



Did Ukrainians invade Russia? Nope. Did Ukrainians bomb Moscow, St Petersburg or any other major Russian city?

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## bobo6661

Piotr said:


> Crimea first declared independence and only later returned to Russia.
> Kosovo may one day join Albania.


I will hear you out when it happens. Right now it's your wet dream


----------



## Piotr

bobo6661 said:


> I will hear you out when it happens. Right now it's your wet dream



So you recognize Crimea as independent ? Neither part of Russia nor the Ukraine ?


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506988835766509579

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## bobo6661

Piotr said:


> So you recognize Crimea as independent ? Neither part of Russia nor the Ukraine ?


I recognize it as a Ukraine territory that was annexed by russia

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## kingQamaR

Piotr said:


> Crisis in the Ukraine was fomented by USA with US-founded coup in the Ukraine in 2014 and World War 2 was fomented by England supporting Hitler. I point at similarities.



Proxy war lol. It's an actual war between Russia and Ukraine and Europe not the US has supplied the vast majority of military aid


----------



## Piotr

bobo6661 said:


> I recognize it as a Ukraine territory that was annexed by russia



And what About Kosovo ? Did you recognize Kosovo as part of Serbia or as independent country ?

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## Foinikas

bobo6661 said:


> Yee like buying weapons in grocery shops whole annexation was founded by russia and nazis they sent


What did you want them to do? The pro-Russian president had been kicked out by coalition of extreme right-wing parties and militias and the Russian and pro-Russian population protested against this. Crimea was already an autonomous province in Ukraine and had majority Russian population.The nationalist and pro-Western government that took over could have demanded the Russians to leave the bases there and make Crimea a normal province of Ukraine. 

Everybody in the West was "shocked" about this "blatant disregard of international law and sovereignity",but how many times has the U.S. intervened to change governments or protect its own people? Cuba? Nicaragua? Panama? Granada? Iraq? 
Why is it ok for Kosovo to declare indepedence and not for Crimea and Donbass? Clinton and Albright intervened in Yugoslavia's internal affairs and gave Kosovo to the Albanians. They have no right to talk about "evil Russians".


----------



## Wood




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507090134801469446


----------



## oberschlesier

Piotr said:


> Victoria Nuland was giving cookies in Maidan. She admited that US founded the coup.
> Maidan won and didn't bring prosperity to the Ukraine.
> Below population of the Ukraine:
> View attachment 826978



Russia population is as well sharply declining, this does not matter.

The Euromaidan started when Janukovych changed his direction from EU to Russia as per pressure of Putin. When protests started, then they got a lot of support from "the west" they were fighting to move into the direction of the EU, not stagnating Russia. After this their GDP was growing, even with the conflict in Donbas looming and they definately were able to reform their army, produce a great leader Zelensky. Hardly you can name this a failed state. In the mean time, Russia is still run by old, declining Soviets 70+ years old.

It seems, that you live in a world, that everything needs to orchestrated and controled by somebody ( yes, bad NATO, US! ), but sometimes it just happens and is a effect of People just wanting to have a better live.... and not drive Lada Kalina


----------



## Piotr

oberschlesier said:


> Russia population is as well sharply declining, this does not matter.
> 
> The Euromaidan started when Janukovych changed his direction from EU to Russia as per pressure of Putin. When protests started, then they got a lot of support from "the west" they were fighting to move into the direction of the EU, not stagnating Russia. After this their GDP was growing, even with the conflict in Donbas looming and they definately were able to reform their army, produce a great leader Zelensky. Hardly you can name this a failed state. In the mean time, Russia is still run by old, declining Soviets 70+ years old.
> 
> It seems, that you live in a world, that everything needs to orchestrated and controled by somebody ( yes, bad NATO, US! ), but sometimes it just happens and is a effect of People just wanting to have a better live.... and not drive Lada Kalina



Millions of people fled the Ukraine after Maidan. So much about prosperity. Maidan didn't bring prosperity to the Ukraine.

IMO oligarchs are the biggest problem in the Ukraine.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507062850547769348


----------



## oberschlesier

Piotr said:


> Millions of people fled the Ukraine after Maidan. So much about prosperity. Maidan didn't bring prosperity to the Ukraine.


Yeah, after Russia annexed Crimeria and started an uprising in Donbass, then yes millions fled. Properity takes time and stability to build, when were on the right track.


----------



## KAL-EL

kingQamaR said:


> Did Ukrainians invade Russia? Nope. Did Ukrainians bomb Moscow, St Petersburg or any other major Russian city?



^This


----------



## F-22Raptor

Foinikas said:


> You're eager to escalate this,I see. You're not in Europe to deal with the consequences.



Ukraine is the country being invaded. Striking Russian staging areas is well within their rights.

Heavier weapons are needed.

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## dBSPL

It is Russian threat effect. Everyone started to remember history.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507094353122103305














Macron and Erdogan Set Aside Differences to Press Putin Over War


French and Turkish attempts to help end the war in Ukraine are improving their previously frosty relations.




www.bloomberg.com

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507087571452579841

Well done!

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## oberschlesier

Piotr said:


> IMO oligarchs are the biggest problem in the Ukraine.


In Russia they are not ? The biggest country is the World with all the recources and the average pay more than two times lower than in Poland, where the export speciality is furniture and componets for the German economy ?

Really where is the Russian money ? Yachts ? Palaces ? Definately not in the army.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507003437799538701
Elon taking huge dumps on Russia

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## Hydration

Foinikas said:


> I made this for fun some years ago 😂
> 
> 
> That's escalation. Russia should bomb all weapons shipments as soon as they enter Ukrainian territory.


heh i dont like that group but thats creative

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## Foinikas

bobo6661 said:


> Kosovo became a independent country ... if Crimea would become a country like kosovo i would not have a problem ...


Crimea held a referandum to join Russia. Now you will say "it was fake". Ok and Kosovo was illegally allowed to become indepedent. 

You know what followed after the Americans gave Kosovo to the Albanians?

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## Hydration

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507003437799538701
> Elon taking huge dumps on Russia


ngl stop exporting russian engines to elon really pissed him off i wouldnt call this retaliation as devastating


----------



## dBSPL

Hydration said:


> heh i dont like that group but thats creative


Bro can you give some information about the general trend in the Egyptian public about the Russo-Ukrainian war? Is there a dominant party or is the general trend towards neutrality?


----------



## Foinikas

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraine is the country being invaded. Striking Russian staging areas is well within their rights.
> 
> Heavier weapons are needed.


And with what right does USA interfere? Is Ukraine a member of NATO? Is Ukraine next to USA? Has Russia declared war on USA?


----------



## kingQamaR

dBSPL said:


> Retreating Russian landing ships, just another epic moment in the Russian Ukrainan war:



But it's out of action now. The Russian Navy has precious few Logistical Landing Ships. The loss of just one hull is a big percentage drop. Also it's blocked a wharf in the harbour. The Russian ability to throw ashore an amphibious footprint was negligible; it was not on a par with what the Royal Navy could do, let alone what the US could muster...

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507084303846580236


----------



## oberschlesier

Foinikas said:


> And with what right does USA interfere? Is Ukraine a member of NATO? Is Ukraine next to USA? Has Russia declared war on USA?


International law. Helping a combatant in war does not mean you are a side.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506977301216514049

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## Foinikas

oberschlesier said:


> International law. Helping a combatant in war does not mean you are a side.


It's still escalation. They keep pushing this to star a big war.


----------



## oberschlesier

Foinikas said:


> It's still escalation. They keep pushing this to star a big war.


Demanding payment for gas in Rubel is not ? Only Russia can escalate?


----------



## Foinikas

oberschlesier said:


> Demanding payment for gas in Rubel is not ? Only Russia can escalate?


Well putting a gazillion sanctions and starting a mass campaign of Anti-russian sentiment everywhere in the West isn't exactly friendly. The Russians react like this because of all the unfair sanctions.


----------



## Hydration

dBSPL said:


> Bro can you give some information about the general trend in the Egyptian public about the Russo-Ukrainian war? Is there a dominant party or is the general trend towards neutrality?


well its mixed. Ukranians used to visit for tourism so did russians so some would stand with the people of the country where they met their forign friend from. Some hate the west for what they did to our brothers near us and how theyre still doing it with no consquences and have their media to justify it so these tend to flow with russians. I would say its neutral so far

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507101271504916481


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## F-22Raptor

It’s a shame the new US Army Precision Strike Missile isn’t quite ready for prime time yet. That’d be a perfect weapon for the Ukrainians.


----------



## Wood

Very interesting radio intercepts from Russian troops in battle

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## Hydration

imagine if america was sanctioned as much as russia but for invading iraq maybe iraq wouldve been saved

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## oberschlesier

Foinikas said:


> Well putting a gazillion sanctions and starting a mass campaign of Anti-russian sentiment everywhere in the West isn't exactly friendly. The Russians react like this because of all the unfair sanctions.


Invading a neighbouring country for some ridiculous reason is not something, that people like. 
What reaction were you expecting ? Sure it`s fine? You don`t need a mass campain to create a Anti-russian sentiment, their actions speak for themselfs.

Why unfair sactions ? It`s a strong signal, we don`t like what you do - STOP IT.


----------



## pkuser2k12



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## oberschlesier

Hydration said:


> imagine if america was sanctioned as much as russia but for invading iraq maybe iraq wouldve been saved


Sure, why did the Arab countries not cut oil to the US then ?
There were huge protests against the invasion in Europe.

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## Foinikas

oberschlesier said:


> Invading a neighbouring country for some ridiculous reason is not something, that people like.
> What reaction were you expecting ? Sure it`s fine? You don`t need a mass campain to create a Anti-russian sentiment, their actions speak for themselfs.
> 
> Why unfair sactions ? It`s a strong signal, we don`t like what you do - STOP IT.


I'm not saying they should have invaded,but the US and Britain did everything they could as to NOT find a peaceful solution on this. I don't recall Russia,China and others imposing heavy sanctions on USA in 1999,2003 and 2011. 

Wasn't invading Iraq in 2003 a ridiculous reason? Wasn't bombing Yugoslavia in 1999 for "humanitarian reasons" just fake? 

When Turkey invaded Cyprus,why wasn't there a big reaction by all the other NATO members? Yes,it was the Cold War. But why didn't they put sanctions on Turkey about that after the Cold War? 

Double standards. That's what annoys me. Their lies and their hypocrisy.

And speaking of Kosovo...does this remind you of something?

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## mmr

oberschlesier said:


> Sure, why did the Arab countries not cut oil to the US then ?
> There were huge protests against the invasion in Europe.


West is way more united then arabs and muslims

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## Ich

oberschlesier said:


> The Euromaidan started when Janukovych changed his direction from EU to Russia as per pressure of Putin.


Wrong. At that time Ukraine needed 15 billion Dollar to pay the dept or go bankrupt. Ukraine first ask EU to give them credit and also join EU. But the EU only offer 6 billion Dollar. This was not enough to hold up Ukraine state and so Ukraine asks Russia and Russia gave Ukraine 15 billion Dollar with the condition that Ukraine do not join the EU or NATO. Ukraine take it and short time later the Maidan emerged with the help of US and EU. It was a coup.

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## coffee_cup

oberschlesier said:


> Invading a neighbouring country for some ridiculous reason is not something, that people like.


Invading *ANY* country for some ridiculous reason is not something, that people like.

With this slight change, I completely agree with you!


----------



## mmr

Wood said:


> Very interesting radio intercepts from Russian troops in battle


wow really insightful reporting


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506887063823659011

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## Ich

dBSPL said:


> It is Russian threat effect. Everyone started to remember history.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507094353122103305
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Macron and Erdogan Set Aside Differences to Press Putin Over War
> 
> 
> French and Turkish attempts to help end the war in Ukraine are improving their previously frosty relations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bloomberg.com


Me think Erdogan knows that this is only a snapshot of the situation and can change fast.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507105684592246788

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507105731576795144

Large scale Ukrainian offensive towards Kherson. Large artillery barrages

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## Hydration

oberschlesier said:


> Sure, why did the Arab countries not cut oil to the US then ?
> There were huge protests against the invasion in Europe.


mainly due to saddam. I dont think the saudis saw that far in the future


----------



## Wood

mmr said:


> wow really insightful reporting


Some evidence of war crime there as well

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507109806653550607

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## Cthulhu

oberschlesier said:


> Euromaidan in 2014 was about the European Union and having a better quality of life. Nothing to do with US, NATO whatever. If you would be Polish you would understand this.
> 
> This is the real source of Euromaidan crisis:
> 
> View attachment 826977


Well after Euromaidan the Ukrainian government started implementing hostile policies towards their Russian-speaking population, A sequence of choices that led them to where they are now.

Ukrainization in modern Ukraine[edit]​Main article: Ukrainization
See also: Russian book ban in Ukraine
Since the Euromaidan of 2013-2014, the Ukrainian government has issued several laws aimed at encouraging Ukrainization in the media, in education and in other spheres.

In February 2017, the Ukrainian government banned the commercial importation of books from Russia, which had accounted for up to 60% of all titles sold in Ukraine.[17]

On May 23, 2017, the Ukrainian parliament approved the law that most broadcast content should be in Ukrainian (75% of national carriers and 50% of local carriers).

The 2017 law on education provides that Ukrainian language is the language of education at all levels except for one or more subjects that are allowed to be taught in two or more languages, namely English or one of the other official languages of the European Union (i.e. excluding Russian).[18] The law does state that persons belonging to the indigenous peoples of Ukraine are guaranteed the right to study at public pre-school institutes and primary schools in "the language of instruction of the respective indigenous people, along with the state language of instruction" in separate classes or groups.[18] The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) has expressed concern with this measure and with the lack of "real consultation" with the representatives of national minorities.[19] In July 2018, The Mykolaiv Okrug Administrative Court liquidated the status of Russian as a regional language, on the suit (bringing to the norms of the national legislation due to the recognition of the law "On the principles of the state language policy" by the Constitutional Court of Ukraine as unconstitutional) of the First Deputy Prosecutor of the Mykolaiv Oblast.[20] In October and December 2018, parliaments of the city of Kherson and of Kharkiv Oblast also abolished the status of the Russian language as a regional one.[21]

In January 2022, a law requiring all print media to be published in Ukrainian came into force. It did not ban publication in Russian, however it stipulated that a Ukrainian version of equivalent circulation and scope must be published - which is not a profitable option for publishers. Critics argue that the law could disenfranchise the country's Russian-speakers.[22]










Russian language in Ukraine - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## dBSPL

Ich said:


> Me think Erdogan knows that this is only a snapshot of the situation and can change fast.


Could be, Erdogan's NATO summit press conference statements mostly about the immediate lifting of all overt and covert embargo activities against Turkey.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507111162629931013


----------



## oberschlesier

Foinikas said:


> I'm not saying they should have invaded,but the US and Britain did everything they could as to NOT find a peaceful solution on this. I don't recall Russia,China and others imposing heavy sanctions on USA in 1999,2003 and 2011.


Why US or Britain ? Should everybody just accept, that Ukraine is russian satellite ? What Russia did to solve this problem peacefully and build trust ? Annexed Crimeria ?

Yes, why did they not impose sanctions on the US in 1999,2003 and 2011? Maybe because they agreed with those actions ?


Foinikas said:


> Wasn't invading Iraq in 2003 a ridiculous reason? Wasn't bombing Yugoslavia in 1999 for "humanitarian reasons" just fake?
> 
> When Turkey invaded Cyprus,why wasn't there a big reaction by all the other NATO members? Yes,it was the Cold War. But why didn't they put sanctions on Turkey about that after the Cold War?
> 
> Double standards. That's what annoys me. Their lies and their hypocrisy.
> 
> And speaking of Kosovo...does this remind you of something?
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 827002


In yugoslavia 1999 you had a internal conflict between two nationalities in one country and NATO inteviene to solve it. Was this good ? For Albanias yes, not really for Serbia.


----------



## PakFactor

dBSPL said:


> Could be, Erdogan's NATO summit press conference statements mostly about the immediate lifting of all overt and covert embargo activities against Turkey.



He's not going to get anywhere with that, sometimes it doesn't pay to act like a big kid in the gang.


----------



## dBSPL

PakFactor said:


> He's not going to get anywhere with that, sometimes it doesn't pay to act like a big kid in the gang.


Let's see. I think we are on the eve of very important events.


----------



## oberschlesier

Cthulhu said:


> Well after Euromaidan the Ukrainian government started implementing hostile policies towards their Russian-speaking population, A sequence of choices that led them to where they are now.
> 
> Ukrainization in modern Ukraine[edit]​Main article: Ukrainization
> See also: Russian book ban in Ukraine
> Since the Euromaidan of 2013-2014, the Ukrainian government has issued several laws aimed at encouraging Ukrainization in the media, in education and in other spheres.
> 
> In February 2017, the Ukrainian government banned the commercial importation of books from Russia, which had accounted for up to 60% of all titles sold in Ukraine.[17]
> 
> On May 23, 2017, the Ukrainian parliament approved the law that most broadcast content should be in Ukrainian (75% of national carriers and 50% of local carriers).
> 
> The 2017 law on education provides that Ukrainian language is the language of education at all levels except for one or more subjects that are allowed to be taught in two or more languages, namely English or one of the other official languages of the European Union (i.e. excluding Russian).[18] The law does state that persons belonging to the indigenous peoples of Ukraine are guaranteed the right to study at public pre-school institutes and primary schools in "the language of instruction of the respective indigenous people, along with the state language of instruction" in separate classes or groups.[18] The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) has expressed concern with this measure and with the lack of "real consultation" with the representatives of national minorities.[19] In July 2018, The Mykolaiv Okrug Administrative Court liquidated the status of Russian as a regional language, on the suit (bringing to the norms of the national legislation due to the recognition of the law "On the principles of the state language policy" by the Constitutional Court of Ukraine as unconstitutional) of the First Deputy Prosecutor of the Mykolaiv Oblast.[20] In October and December 2018, parliaments of the city of Kherson and of Kharkiv Oblast also abolished the status of the Russian language as a regional one.[21]
> 
> In January 2022, a law requiring all print media to be published in Ukrainian came into force. It did not ban publication in Russian, however it stipulated that a Ukrainian version of equivalent circulation and scope must be published - which is not a profitable option for publishers. Critics argue that the law could disenfranchise the country's Russian-speakers.[22]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian language in Ukraine - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


After the annexation of Crimeria, what were you excpeting ? The country name is Ukraine, why should they not promote Ukranian? Nobody is banning anybody from speaking Russian, which anyway is very similar. Is this a good reason to bomb the Russian speaking eastern Ukraine ?

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## Foinikas

oberschlesier said:


> Why US or Britain ? Should everybody just accept, that Ukraine is russian satellite ? What Russia did to solve this problem peacefully and build trust ? Annexed Crimeria ?


They should both agree that Ukraine should be neutral. Crimea was annexed in 2014. The Western countries supported and maybe even funded the 2014 riots.

Remember,before the invasion France wanted to mediate between Russia and NATO and Germany didn't want to go to sanctions at all. The ones who kept sending forces to NATO countries next to Ukraine and insisted on sanctions were USA and Britain. Both far away and both out of the EU.



oberschlesier said:


> In yugoslavia 1999 you had a internal conflict between two nationalities in one country and NATO inteviene to solve it. What this good ? For Albanias yes, not really for Serbia.


And why should NATO intervene? Yugoslavia was not in NATO nor communist anymore. They had no right to intervene.

But it was Clinton,Albright and Biden who insisted on bombing Yugoslavia.

Look at this:







The people who did this,now dare to talk about "Russians brutally bombing Ukraine" and talking about "Dictator Putin innocent civilians".

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## Hydration

PakFactor said:


> He's not going to get anywhere with that, sometimes it doesn't pay to act like a big kid in the gang.


i dont get what the israeli PM is trying to accomplish here i dont think he has a very good relationship with russia to meditate in between same with qatar



Foinikas said:


> They should both agree that Ukraine should be neutral. Crimea was annexed in 2014. The Western countries supported and maybe even funded the 2014 riots.
> 
> Remember,before the invasion France wanted to mediate between Russia and NATO and Germany didn't want to go to sanctions at all. The ones who kept sending forces to NATO countries next to Ukraine and insisted on sanctions were USA and Britain. Both far away and both out of the EU.
> 
> 
> And why should NATO intervene? Yugoslavia was not in NATO nor communist anymore. They had no right to intervene.
> 
> But it was Clinton and Albright who insisted on bombing Yugoslavia.
> 
> Look at this:
> 
> View attachment 827011
> 
> 
> The people who did this,now dare to talk about "Russians brutally bombing Ukraine" and talking about "Dictator Putin innocent civilians".


i dont get why americans vote for democrats every single president of theres made a huge global catastrophe atleast once lol


----------



## dBSPL

There are two options for Crimea, the return of the Crimean people, who are not allowed to return right now, and Russia respecting the principle of the immutability of Ukraine's borders.

The second possibility is the using of the right to self-determination to include all Crimeans and under international supervision.

It is not possible for Russia's annexation decision to be recognized in terms of international law.

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## Cthulhu

oberschlesier said:


> After the annexation of Crimeria, what were you excpeting ? The country name is Ukraine, why should they not promote Ukranian? Nobody is banning anybody from speaking Russian, which anyway is very similar. Is this a good reason to bomb the Russian speaking eastern Ukraine ?


LOL, So after the Russia annexed the Crimea, The Ukrainians turned and started taking retaliatory action against their own Russian-speaking population! What kind of logic is that?! Now thanks to that way of operating they are losing the Luhansk and Donetsk too.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507086781954633728

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## oberschlesier

Foinikas said:


> They should both agree that Ukraine should be neutral. Crimea was annexed in 2014. The Western countries supported and maybe even funded the 2014 riots.
> 
> Remember,before the invasion France wanted to mediate between Russia and NATO and Germany didn't want to go to sanctions at all. The ones who kept sending forces to NATO countries next to Ukraine and insisted on sanctions were USA and Britain. Both far away and both out of the EU.


US and Britain are sending forces to NATO countries next to Ukraine, because all those countries are requesting it. It`s polish strategic goal to have a pernament US base. NOBODY is trusting Russia here. The policy of France and Germany was wrong, if they want to have an successful EU, they have to as well take the resposibility for the security of the eastern flank. I think Germany is slowly understanding this.

I won`t talk about Yugoslavia, I don`t have enough knowledge here, maybe you are right.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507020936540696583

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507085157198700544






Spoiler:  Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507112892126142466

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## PakFactor

Hydration said:


> i dont get what the israeli PM is trying to accomplish here i dont think he has a very good relationship with russia to meditate in between same with qatar
> 
> 
> i dont get why americans vote for democrats every single president of theres made a huge global catastrophe atleast once lol



Israel has a large diaspora of Ukranian/Russian origin Jews so they have a sense of commitment I would say to that region of the world.
As for Qatar if I only knew 1% of the time what goes on in these Sheikhs head, I'll leave it at that.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507075888675966979


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507079555961532421

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507070445148950538

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507093780507332618

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507096427050291207

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506969662789140480Timelapse video of LST ships burning today


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506988835766509579

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## oberschlesier

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507075888675966979


Ukraine still has air defense.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507095689205067780

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507084364076748807


----------



## Inception-06

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505612123342262277
> 
> Almost certainly confirming the US is passing targeting data to the Ukrainians.


 Which I said in the first week of this war !

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## oberschlesier

Cthulhu said:


> LOL, So after the Russia annexed the Crimea, The Ukrainians turned and started taking retaliatory action against their own Russian-speaking population! What kind of logic is that?! Now thanks to that way of operating they are losing the Luhansk and Donetsk too.


Not fully trusting Russian speaking population logic. Remember Zelensky is a Russian and he agreed to this.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507083745442123783

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507074415271546888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507075041741225986


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507113011328266253


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506952421599330307

Ukrainian helicopters abandoned in Kherson


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507050258781585410

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507052890464169991

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507097812743430148


----------



## kingQamaR

From the looks of things, Russia's army is not that modern. Still using Soviet Era equipment. Does not show me they are as modern as they claim.

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## The SC

Off topic but related somehow..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507079685116682249


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507063053174587392

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## Hassan Al-Somal

oberschlesier said:


> Ukraine still has air defense.




They were firing Szu and shilka.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507115670999289869

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507050577607467018

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506978712637505540

@CHINA_NEWS4

Urgent: Chinese Ministry of Defense: The whole world knows that America is the main instigator of the crisis in Ukraine.

The Chinese Foreign Ministry calls on America and NATO to apologize for the damage they inflicted on countries, including the former Yugoslavia, 23 years ago, before thinking about teaching ethics to others.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507097784150810630

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## Cthulhu

oberschlesier said:


> Not fully trusting Russian speaking population logic.









oberschlesier said:


> Remember Zelensky is a Russian and he agreed to this.


And how is that working for him?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507123343450943496

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507133360363253765

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506767928523382786

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506977345403600899

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507011161736171532

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## oberschlesier

Cthulhu said:


> And how is that working for him?


He is still posting selfies from the Center of Kiev after one month. So, I think not so bad.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507045265487716358

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507032517165162505

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506915770688843781

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507005846701568006


----------



## The SC

Huge explosion in Kyiv


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507059887771164676

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506974888078331907

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507132073353617408


----------



## Wood

Nice infield reporting from Kharkiv


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507132491479588870

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507114939764420620


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506682702048772102

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## Wood

Former Finland Prime Minister predicts that Finland will apply for NATO membership in a few months. Public opinion has changed decisively in recent polls. He says that it now only a parliamentary procedure that stands in the way!

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507055302021160972


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507131673749643267


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507115237866102784

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1 | Wow Wow:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506952391551336452

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507039356627922956

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507032380032393228

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507059838806802435


----------



## Tamerlane

The SC said:


> Off topic but related somehow..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507079685116682249



Not only is this related to the topic, I think it is a critical element of the current situation. 

Anyone who’s well informed knows that US policy is practically 100% controlled by Israel. There’s no way the West led by the Anglo-Zionists would start this war without Israeli prodding. In fact, Russia frustrating Israel in Syria may be the major reason why all of this is happening. 

I’m sure the Russians are not stupid enough not to know which tail wags the dog. 

It is to be assumed that Russia will be tightening the screw on Israel. I didn’t think it will happen so soon.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506976142292627465


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507147926094635009

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507148626044375044


----------



## Foinikas

Hydration said:


> i dont get why americans vote for democrats every single president of theres made a huge global catastrophe atleast once lol


Because orange man bad. He said things that hurt my feelings.


----------



## Wood

Very funny. Shows how the Ukrainians got Krasukha 4

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## The SC

Tamerlane said:


> Not only is this related to the topic, I think it is a critical element of the current situation.
> 
> Anyone who’s well informed knows that US policy is practically 100% controlled by Israel. There’s no way the West led by the Anglo-Zionists would start this war without Israeli prodding. In fact, Russia frustrating Israel in Syria may be the major reason why all of this is happening.
> 
> I’m sure the Russians are not stupid enough not to know which tail wags the dog.
> 
> It is to be assumed that Russia will be tightening the screw on Israel. I didn’t think it will happen so soon.


According to some in the know of the ME region..The reason is known. Israel has an intelligence and logistical support role in favor of Ukraine at the behest of the US.. And Russian warnings to Israel were repeated a lot recently much before this Ukraine operation..

Israel was claiming a role as a dove of peace between Russia and Ukraine to cover its secret activities in support of Ukraine... But Russia stopped the malice and the increase in threatening messages means that Israel's games have been discovered and now it is playing in the open...

Israel's meeting with Turkey and Qatar recently was aimed at transferring an arms deal... it could be additional Bayraktars - and this is the reason that the number of the downed Bayraktars is greater than the announced number that was handed over to Ukraine ..

The funding will come from Qatar, because Qatar was ready to help Ukraine with 3 billion dollars, under the name of compensating the victims of the downing of the Ukrainian plane in Iran..The Qatari support will be compensated for Qatar by the difference in the increase of gas and oil prices..

And there is the European meeting with Qatar a couple of weeks ago that was to coordinate the increase of Qatar's share in the energy market..

Iran at the present time represents the role of a loyal friend to Russia.. But the Russians still hadn't found out about the game of playing on the ropes of Iran..

The important thing is that the Western group knows how to distribute the roles of conspiracies perfectly in the international arena..

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## Wood




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## 8888888888888

thetutle said:


> Some good points. One thing he does not mention is that there is not a single video of a javelin engaging a Russian tank in combat. Not a single one.


Ukraine would have a lot of videos of that if it's successful, if not nothing.

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> The key is April. Actually, the key is for the Russian to take Mariupol before April.
> 
> Why April? April is where their initial conscript contract run out, so on April 1, there are going to be an influx of new conscript and most likely being send to battle like the last batch. Now, knowing what they know, that it was a war going on since Late Feb, would you want to be in that war?
> 
> While it is true that Russia have a lot of Troop, 900,000 standing and up to 2 millions reserve is the last conservative estimation. But you also need to remember Russia is one giant piece of landmass, which mean they would also need a lot of station force. That mean for a new rotation, there are only 1 out of 3 ways they could go
> 
> 1.) The Cheap Skate way, do something like the "Stop-Loss" policy like the American did during Iraq and Afghanistan , extend the contract for the original conscript and have them stay put in the battlefield. Then you don't need to raise a lot of troop to fill the gap
> 
> 2.) Mobilise the reserve, which is a sensible thing to do, but that mean it takes time to get them up to combat ready level.
> 
> 3.) Send in the ready to go regular troop, That's the quickest way, but it take defensive power off Russia.
> 
> Now, all 3 solution would heavily depends on whether or not the Russia have any strategic gain, which at this point the closest is Mariupol. If they cannot take it before the April 1 rotation, that will present a problem for the Russian. Because assuming the normal Russian was not fed any information on the front line, they would still have know Putin have declare a Special Military Operation (And more or less by banning the word war, everyone would know this is actually a war) Which mean if nothing was gain for the 5 or 6 weeks operation, morale is going to drop. If this is the case, then option 1 and 2 would not cut it, it will most likely end up like the first batch.
> 
> Which is realistically the only people Russia can send is their regular. But would Putin willing to risk Russia national security
> 
> On the other hand, on the Ukrainian side, the longer they hold out, the longer they will give the Russian some thought about whether or not this war is worth it. Don't get me wrong, Russia sheer combat power trump Ukrainian, so if the Russian do not let go and do this day and night with multiple rotation, then at some point they are going to have the advantage over the Ukrainian. And it would be Ukrainian job to make the Russia reach this point as late as possible and as costly as possible. And force them into a negotiation table.



Russia has 5 million draft eligible men, out of 15m total military age men (18-35,) but this statistics omits emigration, which is also uniquely huge for Russia. So we think at least 1m draft evader rich kids who live in the West, London included.

At most, half of that can be mobilised, without the economy going belly up completely.

But Russian military is materially incapable of accomodating so much upkeep, and not be able to process so many new soldiers.

In 2007, if I remember correct, our military instructor told what are the wartime _material_ capacity of nearby countries for troop support. Russia was only 1.5m, and that was at the time when Russian economy was doing like 3-4 times better.

I would risk to say that current Russian 1m army is dictated by their current material limits, and at most a surge can raise it to 1 2m-1.3m, while also trashing the economy more.

They can at most sustain war for 2 years, if they completely disregard their soldiers lives, and know that they will collapse anyways.

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## Wood

^ how Ukraine killed a Russian General


----------



## 8888888888888

F-22Raptor said:


> 75% of their TOTAL BTGs. This is confirmed by the Pentagon.
> 
> Any other reserves they'd call upon after those are mostly untrained cannon fodder.


That's good enough for rear areas


----------



## PakFactor

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506976142292627465



I see nothing wrong with the Russians using White Phosphorus or thermite incendiary submunitions the Americans (MK 77 in Iraq etc) and Israelis used them religiously unless it’s more painful due to it being used on blonde hair and blue eyed people.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507155308648570881


----------



## 8888888888888

Huffal said:


> Yes ive realised that. Especially regarding casualties.
> 
> Best to wait 2-3 years from when the war is over, to finally get some truth
> 
> I see. So Russia fully controls Izyum then. So that either means, the report of the counter attack is false, or Russia counter attacked the Ukrainians shortly after the Ukrainian counter attack and regained it.


I wonder how will Ukraine counter attack can work when Russia controls the air.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507150535660552193

That’s terrible

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507155308648570881


This is actually a bad thing for Ukraine

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## WotTen

dBSPL said:


> It is not possible for Russia's annexation decision to be recognized in terms of international law.



Russia can always follow the Western trick of supporting 'independence' for these regions (South Sudan, East Timor, etc). If they then decide to merge with Russia, whose business is that?



oberschlesier said:


> US and Britain are sending forces to NATO countries next to Ukraine, because all those countries are requesting it. It`s polish strategic goal to have a pernament US base. NOBODY is trusting Russia here.



I was surprised to see how almost every East European country except Belarus is so strongly anti-Russia. Unlike NATO, where countries want to join, it seems the Warsaw Pact was only held together by Russian force.


----------



## oberschlesier

WotTen said:


> I was surprised to see how almost every East European country except Belarus is so strongly anti-Russia. Unlike NATO, where countries want to join, it seems the Warsaw Pact was only held together by Russian force.



Warsaw Pact was probably the only defence alliance in History, that attacked their own members. This explains it.

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## faithfulguy

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503466477772582921


Kharkov changed hand more times than any major cities in WWII. It’s sad to see all these destruction there.


----------



## Menthol

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507045265487716358
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507032517165162505
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506915770688843781



I completely agree with this!

The West vs the rest.

After the war, Russia will lead the world into liberation, to real freedom.

Assuming the war is not ended with nuclear war.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507160339988709403

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507173735060713474

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507070203837964297

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506813185583722502

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506981398217105415


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507149471888683013

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507150226162917380
Urgent | CNN on the Pentagon: Our attempts to contact the Russian defense minister and chief of staff have been unsuccessful over the past week..

@AJABreaking


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507178278271873024


----------



## dBSPL

Notes from Turkish president Erdogan's speech after the NATO Leaders' Summit:

>Turkey evacuated 142 members of the Ukraine Observation Mission of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe via Istanbul.As of March 25, the number of refugees from Ukraine to Turkey has reached 60,000. As of March 25, AFAD and Turkish Red Crescent continue their activities in Ukraine actively. They have delivered 56 trucks of humanitarian aid so far, and this number will continue to grow exponentially in the coming period.

>As the country with the highest number of refugees in the world, we also provides international support to the problems of Ukraine's neighboring countries. However, Turkey condemns the discrimination of refugees based on their culture.

>NATO must act with a realistic and strategic approach. The alliance must have and maintain a position that is not a threat to Russia or any other third country.

>In the face of possible conflicts and crises, we must protect our allies effectively and uphold the principle of indivisibility of security. Turkey will make every contribution, we expect the same approach from our allies. There can be no implicit or explicit embargoes between the allies.

>At the June, Madrid summit, which will shape the future of the alliance, a summit where NATO's decisions will be taken for the next decades is planned. Here, NATO's new strategic concept will come to the fore. Turkey has a say in the future of the alliance and will contribute to this process.

>It is a necessity to restructure the institutions responsible for ensuring global peace and stability. We know the problems from Somalia to Yemen and Ukraine as the world, and it is our duty to carry out global security reform not only to those who lost their lives in wars, but also to new generations.

>As Turkey, all our efforts are to bring together the leaders of the two warring countries and to establish a climate of peace. Technical infrastructure works continues. Consensus has been reached on NATO's non-presence, disarmament and being official language of Russian in Ukraine. However, disagreements continue over the status of Donbas and Crimea. Ukraine is ready to put this to a referendum, and this is a requirement of wise leadership. Ukraine especially wants Turkey's mediation and the Russian side has a positive approach to this. If a common request arises, we are ready to take every step for our two countries.

(He also mentions that the relations between France and Turkey have gained a new momentum and they want to continue this after the elections in France. Apart from that, he mentioned that Turkey's efforts to create a ceasefire between the two countries were appreciated by many countries and shared some details about the diplomatic initiatives in the last month.)


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507157436431572998


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507159248341508096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507163706731364369

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## Menthol

Cthulhu said:


> Well after Euromaidan the Ukrainian government started implementing hostile policies towards their Russian-speaking population, A sequence of choices that led them to where they are now.
> 
> Ukrainization in modern Ukraine[edit]​Main article: Ukrainization
> See also: Russian book ban in Ukraine
> Since the Euromaidan of 2013-2014, the Ukrainian government has issued several laws aimed at encouraging Ukrainization in the media, in education and in other spheres.
> 
> In February 2017, the Ukrainian government banned the commercial importation of books from Russia, which had accounted for up to 60% of all titles sold in Ukraine.[17]
> 
> On May 23, 2017, the Ukrainian parliament approved the law that most broadcast content should be in Ukrainian (75% of national carriers and 50% of local carriers).
> 
> The 2017 law on education provides that Ukrainian language is the language of education at all levels except for one or more subjects that are allowed to be taught in two or more languages, namely English or one of the other official languages of the European Union (i.e. excluding Russian).[18] The law does state that persons belonging to the indigenous peoples of Ukraine are guaranteed the right to study at public pre-school institutes and primary schools in "the language of instruction of the respective indigenous people, along with the state language of instruction" in separate classes or groups.[18] The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) has expressed concern with this measure and with the lack of "real consultation" with the representatives of national minorities.[19] In July 2018, The Mykolaiv Okrug Administrative Court liquidated the status of Russian as a regional language, on the suit (bringing to the norms of the national legislation due to the recognition of the law "On the principles of the state language policy" by the Constitutional Court of Ukraine as unconstitutional) of the First Deputy Prosecutor of the Mykolaiv Oblast.[20] In October and December 2018, parliaments of the city of Kherson and of Kharkiv Oblast also abolished the status of the Russian language as a regional one.[21]
> 
> In January 2022, a law requiring all print media to be published in Ukrainian came into force. It did not ban publication in Russian, however it stipulated that a Ukrainian version of equivalent circulation and scope must be published - which is not a profitable option for publishers. Critics argue that the law could disenfranchise the country's Russian-speakers.[22]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian language in Ukraine - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



No wonder Russia is attacking.

I think this is too far.

It's a systematic way to cut Ukraine from Russia.

This war is a sin of the West.

I don't know how many times Russia is pledging to the West and Ukraine, as many Putin videos have shown, but in the end, enough is enough.

Maybe the only reason why Russia is wrong when you are being bullied, you are fighting back.

The West is too arrogant, even up to today, there's no sense of regret.



Ich said:


> Wrong. At that time Ukraine needed 15 billion Dollar to pay the dept or go bankrupt. Ukraine first ask EU to give them credit and also join EU. But the EU only offer 6 billion Dollar. This was not enough to hold up Ukraine state and so Ukraine asks Russia and Russia gave Ukraine 15 billion Dollar with the condition that Ukraine do not join the EU or NATO. Ukraine take it and short time later the Maidan emerged with the help of US and EU. It was a coup.



6 billion = hero

15 billion = evil 

This is what Ukrainians will remember, what is if this is not ungrateful.

And I don't know why the EU is thinking they are on the good side in this case, like thinking they are the savior, the great hero of Ukraine.

Like the life and future of Ukraine depends on them with 6 billion over 15 billion.

It's so arrogant.

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## The SC

This means the whole world will suffer.. it remnds one of Covid-19 virus!

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507170295177642033

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507109551484678146

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507102846214455304


----------



## WotTen

dBSPL said:


> (He also mentions that the relations between France and Turkey have gained a new momentum and they want to continue this after the elections in France.



I don't think Erdogan is so naive. He knows France is only playing nice for the moment. Almost all parties in France are pathologically anti-Muslim and anti-Turkey.

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## Oldman1

Tai Hai Chen said:


> No Russian needed in Ukraine. Simple Iskander strikes from Belarus will do. Ukraine does not dare to attack Belarus and Russia soil.


Russians needed if they want to win. Shooting ballistic missiles doesn't get you what you want if you have no control. They have already hit Russian soil in the early days of the war. Since Russia is invading Ukraine, Ukraine is not much concerned how daring it is.



8888888888888 said:


> That's good enough for rear areas


There is no rear areas, they are getting attacked from all sides.


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Russia has 5 million draft eligible men, out of 15m total military age men (18-35,) but this statistics omits emigration, which is also uniquely huge for Russia. So we think at least 1m draft evader rich kids who live in the West, London included.
> 
> At most, half of that can be mobilised, without the economy going belly up completely.
> 
> But Russian military is materially incapable of accomodating so much upkeep, and not be able to process so many new soldiers.
> 
> In 2007, if I remember correct, our military instructor told what are the wartime _material_ capacity of nearby countries for troop support. Russia was only 1.5m, and that was at the time when Russian economy was doing like 3-4 times better.
> 
> I would risk to say that current Russian 1m army is dictated by their current material limits, and at most a surge can raise it to 1 2m-1.3m, while also trashing the economy more.
> 
> They can at most sustain war for 2 years, if they completely disregard their soldiers lives, and know that they will collapse anyways.


Wow 2 years......That's actually quite generous. I will mark them off around 7-9 months, 1 year top if they squeeze every penny under the current economic situation. And that is if they have made some serious progress (again, like taking Mariupol) soon.

The issue here is resource wise, you are going to use double or triple of what you are going to use in battle, because training and equipping those troop would also take up resource, while guns and ammo or Personnel Protection equipment are easy, you can get it anywhere. (China, CAS or Belarus) but you don't just equip your soldier with guns and ammo and protection, which mean you need to somehow equip them with tank, artillery, infantry fighting vehicle and all the way going up to gunship and fighter aircraft, every lost have to be replaced, and you can only make a certain number every year, and I can tell you this, the Russia rate of losing their equipment is already over the rate they can replace for the entire year. And that is before their economy is being sanctioned.

The only logical and reasonable way is to repair the damage one and dip into the strategic stock (Funny thing, I read an article somewhere saying Lithuania offer Ukraine to repair some of their Captured Russian tank and put them back into service, free of charge). That is the only way to recover those losses. But then there is a limit for strategic reserve. Which mean they will run out. And that is why it is important to have an allied. If Ukrainian are able to fly F-16 or older F-15, US will probably offer them the one we have store in Davis Monthan Boneyard (that is why we have allied country come to the US to fly F-16 and F-15 with them)

On the other hand, Russian would not be able to dip into their strategic reserve indefinitely, so when that depleted (it will be depleted between 6 and 7 months with the current rate of loss) and that is the time either Russian allied help them and donate their strategic reserve to Russia or Russia would seriously having a hard time to project combat power.

So I would give them 7 to 9 months to 1 year top to do whatever they wanted to do in Ukraine, then they will need to talk about peace. Because there are no way they can sustain the war effort after that time limit.


----------



## Oldman1

Wood said:


> This is actually a bad thing for Ukraine


Not really, they have to fly low to hit their targets which means more vulnerable to anti air. Also if they missed their targets especially Ukrainian forces, then better for the Ukrainians.


----------



## Flight of falcon

Headlines on this thread and Twitter :

Ukrainians launching counter offensive ….pushing back Russian forces. 

Live CNN TV from Kiev : massive firefights and bombardment very close to the city.


----------



## Menthol

oberschlesier said:


> In Russia they are not ? The biggest country is the World with all the recources and the average pay more than two times lower than in Poland, where the export speciality is furniture and componets for the German economy ?
> 
> Really where is the Russian money ? Yachts ? Palaces ? Definately not in the army.



The USA, it's not?

I think it's hypocritical propaganda, to blame others but justify ourselves for the same thing.

Since when does capitalism hate capitalists?

And I don't think Poland doesn't have such a problem.

Democracy is destroyed by the elite's special privilege, it happens everywhere, including Indonesia.

From where political party gets the fund for the public election campaign? From the people? And rich people are people as well.



F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraine is the country being invaded. Striking Russian staging areas is well within their rights.
> 
> Heavier weapons are needed.



Twice!

One is by USA thru the coup, and systematically change the alignment to USA.

And two is by Russia now.


----------



## Oldman1

F-22Raptor said:


> It’s a shame the new US Army Precision Strike Missile isn’t quite ready for prime time yet. That’d be a perfect weapon for the Ukrainians.


Sure if they join NATO after the war. I believe they should be giving Polish MiGs delivered by land and concealed and Russian made tanks that Zelenskyy wants as well as Russian made SAMs, Russia can't do anything about it, and we need to treat this as brinkmanship, the U.S. government needs to be less risk averse on this. And very symbolic long term in helping Ukraine back on its feet and trust NATO in future if they still join. Can't be Western tanks because of training and such and the ammo used is different than the Ukrainian ones which are 125mm cannons. Too much logistics for that. With captured tanks and their own, they can use the same caliber.

With the counteroffensive going on, its the best time to help the Ukrainians significantly as I have said with MiGs and tanks, but as well as more drones, , anti tank missiles, loitering munitions, etc. If the world wants to end this war quickly in Ukraine's favor, this is the way to go.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Oldman1 said:


> Sure if they join NATO after the war. I believe they should be giving Polish MiGs delivered by land and concealed and Russian made tanks that Zelenskyy wants as well as Russian made SAMs, Russia can't do anything about it, and we need to treat this as brinkmanship, the U.S. government needs to be less risk averse on this. And very symbolic long term in helping Ukraine back on its feet and trust NATO in future if they still join. Can't be Western tanks because of training and such and the ammo used is different than the Ukrainian ones which are 125mm cannons. Too much logistics for that. With captured tanks and their own, they can use the same caliber.




The Ukrainians need M270 MLRS with 70km M-31 guided rocket artillery and ATACMS missiles. These would devastate Russian forces. 50-75 M270s


----------



## Oldman1

F-22Raptor said:


> The Ukrainians need M270 MLRS with 70km M-31 guided rocket artillery and ATACMS missiles. These would devastate Russian forces. 50-75 M270s


Sure it be great for the Ukrainians to have, but I think its better they be giving Russian designs.


----------



## Wood

Oldman1 said:


> Not really, they have to fly low to hit their targets which means more vulnerable to anti air. Also if they missed their targets especially Ukrainian forces, then better for the Ukrainians.


But these fellows may start carpet bombing and hit civilians more than they already do


----------



## F-22Raptor

Oldman1 said:


> Sure it be great for the Ukrainians to have, but I think its better they be giving Russian designs.



They need heavier weapons to push Russia out of Ukraine. The time is now to pour it on.


----------



## Oldman1

Wood said:


> But these fellows may start carpet bombing and hit civilians more than they already do


They could, but how do you think it would look to the world? And what do you think the Ukrainians will feel?



F-22Raptor said:


> They need heavier weapons to push Russia out of Ukraine. The time is now to pour it on.


I agree, the Ukrainians should be given Smerch, Grads, etc. Don't know if any of the other countries have Iskanders or other ballistic missiles of some type that the Ukrainians use.


----------



## Wood

Oldman1 said:


> They could, but how do you think it would look to the world? And what do you think the Ukrainians will feel?


I don't think Putin cares about the aesthetics in this war. Like any despot, the most important thing for him is to keep his throne. For that, he will do anything that he can to show a win at home. He will only not do things that can adversely affect his chances for a military victory at this point.

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## Oldman1

Wood said:


> I don't think Putin cares about the aesthetics in this war. Like any despot, the most important thing for him is to keep his throne. For that, he will do anything that he can to show a win at home. He will only not do things that can adversely affect his chances for a military victory at this point.


Putin doesn't even know how to prosecute a war properly now. You look at the insurgencies in Iraq and Afghanistan and you think the Russians can do better? He's known for deception, propaganda and quick strikes not a full scale war. In other words, he has become delusional to the point of not caring how the Ukrainians are being bombed, then he is in for a surprise.

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## The SC

Sanctions! cause & effects







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507189897806983168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507029367049920520


----------



## 8888888888888

Oldman1 said:


> Russians needed if they want to win. Shooting ballistic missiles doesn't get you what you want if you have no control. They have already hit Russian soil in the early days of the war. Since Russia is invading Ukraine, Ukraine is not much concerned how daring it is.
> 
> 
> There is no rear areas, they are getting attacked from all sides.


Those militia can't deal with military vehicles.


----------



## Oldman1

8888888888888 said:


> Those militia can't deal with military vehicles.


 You kidding right?


----------



## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506966830837022727
John Mearsheimer on why the West is principally responsible for the #Ukrainian crisis




economist.com
John Mearsheimer on why the West is principally responsible for the Ukrainian crisis
The political scientist believes the reckless expansion of NATO provoked Russia 
It is so clear to me.

John Mearsheimer spelt it out so well.

I cannot understand the fervor of some here that championed the Nazis in Ukraine and the USA and NATO hell bent
on trying to destroy the peace of the world for their own misguided self interest.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507101579173838856

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506979141207351302

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507173960831668228

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507006924969037831

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507148317918068742

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504728101321859073


----------



## Oldman1

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504728101321859073


LOL! Thats a lot of territory the Russians need to go rescuing.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507037118635421710

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

@F-22Raptor @Wood @mmr @Oldman1 @Vergennes 

Was watching TV last night, they make a very good joke about Russia on a comedy sketches...

The guy ask "What is the different between Russia and North Korea?"

"North Korea have a national football team and have their own flag in the Olympic"

That really show how the world isolate Russia.......In some way, I would guess Russia were actually below North Korean level of isolation......

sad (or funny, depends on how you see it) but true..

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506995512649654275


----------



## jhungary

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507037118635421710


lol, they counted Mexico and Finland "Rest of the world"......


----------



## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> lol, they counted Mexico and Finland "Rest of the world"......


Thats Russian propaganda for you.


----------



## Menthol

Oldman1 said:


> Putin doesn't even know how to prosecute a war properly now. You look at the insurgencies in Iraq and Afghanistan and you think the Russians can do better? He's known for deception, propaganda and quick strikes not a full scale war. In other words, he has become delusional to the point of not caring how the Ukrainians are being bombed, then he is in for a surprise.



In war, no care about civilians.

Just look at the previous war in the Middle East.

Whatever the side.

If they really care about civilians, there will be no war in the first place.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> LOL! Thats a lot of territory the Russians need to go rescuing.


That map is coincidentally the map where the Ukrainian resist the most.......None of it (other than Kerson) were actually in Russian hand, but actively fighting the Russian...

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506434097761210374

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## Oldman1

Menthol said:


> In war, no care about civilians.
> 
> Just look at the previous war in the Middle East.
> 
> Whatever the side.
> 
> If they really care about civilians, there will be no war in the first place.


True, but for Putin's objective to look like a liberator as he claims, killing millions of Ukrainians would pretty much help make him lose the war faster.



jhungary said:


> That map is coincidentally the map where the Ukrainian resist the most.......None of it (other than Kerson) were actually in Russian hand, but actively fighting the Russian...


The Russians are going to lose Kherson for sure. Don't know when exactly, but the Russians are going to lose it.


----------



## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Thats Russian propaganda for you.


Yeah, well.......I just notice that they also counted either Japan or South Korea "Rest of the World"

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## The SC

Saudi Arabia.
"We have been working with Putin for 20 years. Both legal and oral agreements were concluded with him. So, he fulfilled ALL his promises over the years. The Americans, the situation changes a little, immediately forget about any agreements and promises."


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505861805012398083

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506384515576610819

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## Wood

Putin plans to attend G 20.. awkward

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507200823436226566


----------



## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> True, but for Putin's objective to look like a liberator as he claims, killing millions of Ukrainians would pretty much help make him lose the war faster.
> 
> 
> The Russians are going to lose Kherson for sure. Don't know when exactly, but the Russians are going to lose it.


Sad to say, I am waiting on Russian fire into the Civilian in the next protest, once it was done, it will be game over for the Russian in Kherson. 

There are no way they can hold a city with 100,000 resident. That's half of their entire operational personnel in Ukraine, and that was before any lost has taken place.......


----------



## Oldman1

Wood said:


> Putin plans to attend G 20.. awkward


He is?



jhungary said:


> Sad to say, I am waiting on Russian fire into the Civilian in the next protest, once it was done, it will be game over for the Russian in Kherson.
> 
> There are no way they can hold a city with 100,000 resident. That's half of their entire operational personnel in Ukraine, and that was before any lost has taken place.......


Doubt they can even fortify it. And civilians attacking them from within which is getting their attention away from the Ukrainian forces from outside.


----------



## jhungary

Wood said:


> Putin plans to attend G 20.. awkward


Will be like the last G20 meeting he was in Australia after the 2014 annexation of Crimea







He is probably going to say "Hey, more room at the table for me"

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Will be like the last G20 meeting he was in Australia after the 2014 annexation of Crimea
> 
> View attachment 827024
> 
> 
> He is probably going to say "Hey, more room at the table for me"


 More like longer table for me.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505982915880095760

Reactions: Love Love:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507203468133642244


----------



## alimobin memon

Ok not taking sides but reality is,

Russia cant stop weapons coming into ukraine to be use against them

Russia hasnt achieved full air superiority 

Why russia is using limited force then the one they project to whole world ?

But then,

If russian forces are so weak and losing and losing then its great opportunity for nato to intervene as ukraine alone according to their vigorous claim are beating hell out of russians. But nato is not intervening does it mean nato and ukraine is lying about russian losses ? 

See most of russian weapons are useless according to ukraine and west then what is stopping them ? 

Russia has no guts if nato enters ukraine and will use nuclear bombs in ukraine cause nuclear missiles are last resort or maybe not. But then again if russia uses nukes means they admit conventionally they are really weak 🤔


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507136772349829125


----------



## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> He is?
> 
> 
> Doubt they can even fortify it. And civilians attacking them from within which is getting their attention away from the Ukrainian forces from outside.


I don't think Putin have any meaningful number of troop. In Kherson

Just simple math really. 200,000 troop in country, in 3 to 4 separate ingression. Even if we split them equally, you are looking at 50,000 troop each side (which I doubt they are doing them equally) and majority of troop in the southern Flank are undoubtedly be in MAriupol right now, which mean at most 10000 troop is left in Kherson, may be less. 

10000 troop against 100,000 population? With a threat of conventional force attack? Like the old saying goes, "I hope you bring enough bullet, son"



Oldman1 said:


> More like longer table for me.


Don't know what they use in Indonesia, we uses round table. 

So either people join him or don't, and a lot of them don't, and that is way back in 2014, this is a lot bigger than Annexing Crimea

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## Oldman1

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507136772349829125


I say give them Russian made tanks, helicopters, MiGs, etc. This is Ukraine's momentum to win the war quickly and in their favor. Russia won't do anything about it, its brinkmanship, the U.S. government needs to think in long term about Ukraine in the future and be less risk averse. Have to show more support and its very symbolic if Ukraine decides to join NATO. And the world can't handle a long war anyways with so much economic disastrous consequences in the long term.


----------



## The SC

alimobin memon said:


> Ok not taking sides but reality is,
> 
> Russia cant stop weapons coming into ukraine to be use against them
> 
> Russia hasnt achieved full air superiority
> 
> Why russia is using limited force then the one they project to whole world ?
> 
> But then,
> 
> If russian forces are so weak and losing and losing then its great opportunity for nato to intervene as ukraine alone according to their vigorous claim are beating hell out of russians. But nato is not intervening does it mean nato and ukraine is lying about russian losses ?
> 
> See most of russian weapons are useless according to ukraine and west then what is stopping them ?
> 
> Russia has no guts if nato enters ukraine and will use nuclear bombs in ukraine cause nuclear missiles are last resort or maybe not. But then again if russia uses nukes means they admit conventionally they are really weak 🤔



There is an unusual paradox in this war; Russia is there to prevent Nato being at its immediate doorsteps.. and Ukraine is forced to defend itself.. both are right somehow..

Russia is never to be underestimated.. it hasn't used its best unites or weapons although it is a global power conventionally..but realistic as Putin said.. it can not confront NATO conventionally.. (since it is not the USSR anymore).. So the nuclear option is not the last resort to prevent a WW3,, but rather one of the first options of deterrence at hand.. it can use tactical nuclear weapons to stop NATO at first and if it escalates than it is literally,, Que sera ..sera,,

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## thetutle

Foinikas said:


> I'm not saying they should have invaded,but the US and Britain did everything they could as to NOT find a peaceful solution on this. I don't recall Russia,China and others imposing heavy sanctions on USA in 1999,2003 and 2011.
> 
> Wasn't invading Iraq in 2003 a ridiculous reason? Wasn't bombing Yugoslavia in 1999 for "humanitarian reasons" just fake?
> 
> When Turkey invaded Cyprus,why wasn't there a big reaction by all the other NATO members? Yes,it was the Cold War. But why didn't they put sanctions on Turkey about that after the Cold War?
> 
> Double standards. That's what annoys me. Their lies and their hypocrisy.
> 
> And speaking of Kosovo...does this remind you of something?
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 827002


Oh poor serbs and greeks. Everyone else can attack muslims but you are not allowed to. Thats the problem isn't it?


----------



## Oldman1

The SC said:


> there is an unusual paradox in this war; Russia is there to prevent Nato being at its immediate doorsteps.. and Ukraine is forced to defend itself.. both are right somehow..
> 
> Russia is never to be underestimated.. it hasn't used its best unites or weapons although it is a global power conventionally..but realistic as Putin said.. it can not confront NATO conventionally.. (since it is not the USSR anymore).. So the nuclear option is not the last resort to prevent a WW3,, but rather one of the first options of deterrence at hand.. it can use tactical nuclear weapons to stop NATo at first and if it escalates thab it is literally,, Que sera ..sera,,


Its more than about NATO, its about liberating the Ukrainian people from the evil Jewish Nazi president, Denazify the government and the military, etc.


----------



## kingQamaR

PakFactor said:


> I see nothing wrong with the Russians using White Phosphorus or thermite incendiary submunitions the Americans (MK 77 in Iraq etc) and Israelis used them religiously unless it’s more painful due to it being used on blonde hair and blue eyed people.



Not the same way at all. Show me a city in Afghanistan Iraq flattened like this, and in 3 weeks. It didn't happen. I'm not saying there are not criticisms to be made, but the two do not equate.


----------



## Clutch

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507068466053976074
> Americans are officially annihilating Russian tanks



Isn't Americans fighting alongside Ukrainian Nazis tantamount to Americans exporting terrorism to fight alongside ISIS. 

I thought ISIS and Nazi are equally evil.... No?

I guess Americans like to play the good Taliban bad Taliban game too...

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## Oldman1

The SC said:


> it can use tactical nuclear weapons to stop NATo at first and if it escalates thab it is literally,, Que sera ..sera,,


Thats the last thing Russia should try to do.









U.S. Has Deployed New, Small Nukes On Submarine, According To Group


The U.S. has reportedly begun patrols with the low-yield weapons, which it says are needed to counter Russia. Critics worry they increase the risk of nuclear war.




www.npr.org





U.S. Has Deployed New, Small Nukes On Submarine, According To Group​
The U.S. has begun deploying a new type of low-yield nuclear warhead aboard some ballistic missile submarines, according to a report by an independent monitor.

When the USS Tennessee, an Ohio-class submarine, went on patrol in the final weeks of 2019, it carried "one or two" of the new weapons, according to a post by the Federation of American Scientists.

"Much of that need centers around Russia, which the administration says is preparing to use small nukes in a conflict. The idea is that Russia would use relatively low-yield nuclear weapon to get a superior adversary such as the U.S. or NATO to back down in a conflict, according to Katarzyna Zysk, who studies Russian military doctrine at the Norwegian Institute for Defence Studies in Oslo."

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> I say give them Russian made tanks, helicopters, MiGs, etc. This is Ukraine's momentum to win the war quickly and in their favor. Russia won't do anything about it, its brinkmanship, the U.S. government needs to think in long term about Ukraine in the future and be less risk averse. Have to show more support and its very symbolic if Ukraine decides to join NATO. And the world can't handle a long war anyways with so much economic disastrous consequences in the long term.


Well, considering this.

What would the war will be if Ukrainian heeded to the American and British warning that an Invasion is coming?

That came from the UK/US side since November last year, and that is more than enough time to mobilise their reserve or form organised defence. Ukrainian Regular troop number may be double or even triple the size they have now. Even asking for a No Fly Zone, which is within Ukrainian right to ask and back then Russia is not invading so they will give it to the Ukrainian

What would the war be if they start getting their act last November??


----------



## The SC

Oldman1 said:


> I say give them Russian made tanks, helicopters, MiGs, etc. This is Ukraine's momentum to win the war quickly and in their favor. Russia won't do anything about it, its brinkmanship, the U.S. government needs to think in long term about Ukraine in the future and be less risk averse. Have to show more support and its very symbolic if Ukraine decides to join NATO. And the world can't handle a long war anyways with so much economic disastrous consequences in the long term.


That is all they are giving Ukraine anyways.. apart from advanced individual ATGMs and manpads.. for fear of loosing some sophisticated technologies to the Russian army..


----------



## K_Bin_W

Clutch said:


> Isn't Americans fighting alongside Ukrainian Nazis tantamount to Americans exporting terrorism to fight alongside ISIS.
> 
> I thought ISIS and Nazi are equally evil.... No?
> 
> I guess Americans like to play the good Taliban bad Taliban game too...


No but there are always good Taliban and bad Taliban, good Nazis and bad Nazis.


----------



## Oldman1

Clutch said:


> Isn't Americans fighting alongside Ukrainian Nazis tantamount to Americans exporting terrorism to fight alongside ISIS.
> 
> I thought ISIS and Nazi are equally evil.... No?
> 
> I guess Americans like to play the good Taliban bad Taliban game too...


Guess what, the Russians are surrounded by Ukrainian Nazis. Why do you think they having a hard time taking control of the major cities?



The SC said:


> That is all they are giving Ukraine anyways.. apart from advanced idividual ATGMs and manpads.. for fear of loosing some sophisticated technologies to the Russian army..


Theres really nothing that the Russians already have. MiGs, Russian made helos, artillery, tanks, etc.


----------



## The SC

Oldman1 said:


> Thats the last thing Russia should try to do.


They can't wait till they loose the conventional war against NATO.. too many Russian officials have stated that it will be a first option .. not the last.. it can be a deterrent talk, or even bluff.. but it is consistent throughout the Russian leadership and high ranking officials,, it seems that Russia is just fed up with NATO..

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## Foinikas

thetutle said:


> Oh poor serbs and greeks. Everyone else can attack muslims but you are not allowed to. Thats the problem isn't it?


Ooooh here comes the Zionist American fanboy Muslim who knows everything.


----------



## kingQamaR

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507148317918068742



The Russian trolls are practically speechless on this. Lol 

LOOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS - WW2 saying" ...

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## Wood

jhungary said:


> Well, considering this.
> 
> What would the war will be if Ukrainian heeded to the American and British warning that an Invasion is coming?
> 
> That came from the UK/US side since November last year, and that is more than enough time to mobilise their reserve or form organised defence. Ukrainian Regular troop number may be double or even triple the size they have now. Even asking for a No Fly Zone, which is within Ukrainian right to ask and back then Russia is not invading so they will give it to the Ukrainian
> 
> What would the war be if they start getting their act last November??


Today I saw an interview of an active Ukrainian pilot. He said that they are able to fight against Russians even in encounters where the numbers are not in their favor by using tactics that they have learned from American partners. He also said that Ukrainian military has been preparing for the war for the last 8 years. They were not exactly caught off guard.

So I think America has been working with Ukranians for some time now.

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## Clutch

K_Bin_W said:


> good Nazis



What is a good Nazi?


----------



## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Well, considering this.
> 
> What would the war will be if Ukrainian heeded to the American and British warning that an Invasion is coming?
> 
> That came from the UK/US side since November last year, and that is more than enough time to mobilise their reserve or form organised defence. Ukrainian Regular troop number may be double or even triple the size they have now. Even asking for a No Fly Zone, which is within Ukrainian right to ask and back then Russia is not invading so they will give it to the Ukrainian
> 
> What would the war be if they start getting their act last November??


Had they really taken the possible invasion seriously, then the Ukrainians would have been in more advantageous position then they are already in. All the personnel would have been in fortified positions and the cities more fortified, I mean you see for example Odessa having to be fortified weeks after the invasion instead of being out of position when the president called for mobilization. More chokepoints and ambushes as the military columns try to push in. Less cities fallen. I mean the Ukrainian President himself was pretty much shocked that Russia was willing to invade its neighbor.


----------



## K_Bin_W

Clutch said:


> What is a good Nazi?


The Azovs


----------



## jhungary

alimobin memon said:


> If russian forces are so weak and losing and losing then its great opportunity for nato to intervene as ukraine alone according to their vigorous claim are beating hell out of russians. But nato is not intervening does it mean nato and ukraine is lying about russian losses ?
> 
> See most of russian weapons are useless according to ukraine and west then what is stopping them ?
> 
> Russia has no guts if nato enters ukraine and will use nuclear bombs in ukraine cause nuclear missiles are last resort or maybe not. But then again if russia uses nukes means they admit conventionally they are really weak 🤔


NATO is not Physically intervening (actually they kind of did by providing military aide to Ukraine) is because they don't want to give Putin any excuse to diversify this war. This war, is still small compare to the scale of other war (Russia uses only 1/7 or 1/9 of national strength), which is for them and Ukraine being manageable. Any intensify of this war will be unpredictable, it could range from an all out conventional war (Which will devastate Ukraine and the Baltics), to WW3, to thermonuclear war.

On the other hand, NATO already say there are no base line for nuclear attack, launching a nuke , regardless how small is the yield in Ukraine, will most likely trigger NATO response, which again, would either mean WW3 or nuclear exchange.

Both side are crazy,, but not that crazy to wanted the world to end..



K_Bin_W said:


> The Azovs


Name me another one?

There were like 5 or 6 Neo Nazi group in Ukraine, and Azov wasn't even in the top 3.


----------



## PakFactor

DF41 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506966830837022727
> John Mearsheimer on why the West is principally responsible for the #Ukrainian crisis
> 
> 
> 
> economist.com
> John Mearsheimer on why the West is principally responsible for the Ukrainian crisis
> The political scientist believes the reckless expansion of NATO provoked Russia
> It is so clear to me.
> 
> John Mearsheimer spelt it out so well.
> 
> I cannot understand the fervor of some here that championed the Nazis in Ukraine and the USA and NATO hell bent
> on trying to destroy the peace of the world for their own misguided self interest.



What John Mearsheimer said is fact and on the dot (note: he was also in the US Armed Forces and West Point Graduate I would give him more credence than some others on this forum trying to project another angle). The media is doing a legit half *** job not giving a broader picture of the causes that led to this conflict. But I’m not surprised majority of common western folks are born idiots just look at one of the comments in the comment section of that twitter post after being presented with proofs he comes out saying, Putin had no reason, non sense. 

@Meengla

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## K_Bin_W

jhungary said:


> NATO is not Physically intervening (actually they kind of did by providing military aide to Ukraine) is because they don't want to give Putin any excuse to diversify this war. This war, is still small compare to the scale of other war (Russia uses only 1/7 or 1/9 of national strength), which is for them and Ukraine being manageable. Any intensify of this war will be unpredictable, it could range from an all out conventional war (Which will devastate Ukraine and the Baltics), to WW3, to thermonuclear war.
> 
> On the other hand, NATO already say there are no base line for nuclear attack, launching a nuke , regardless how small is the yield in Ukraine, will most likely trigger NATO response, which again, would either mean WW3 or nuclear exchange.
> 
> Both side are crazy,, but not that crazy to wanted the world to end..
> 
> 
> Name me another one?


I remember watching a movie "War Games" Nuclear war is like tic-tac-toe - No winners so west don't want to get involved in something they cannot win.


----------



## Oldman1

The SC said:


> They can't wait till they loose the conventional war against NATO.. too many Russian officials have stated that it will be a first option .. not the last.. it can be a deterrent talk, or even bluff.. but it is consistant throughout the Russian leadership and high ranking officials,, it seems that Russia is just fed up with NATO..


Well that their problem if they decide to attack NATO. You don't want to give them a reason to do so. If they bomb a supply point where they are helping Ukraine in Poland, expect a response like bombing Russian vehicles and supply columns as well as Russian bases or outposts in Ukraine. Trust me, it won't be pretty for the Russians. And if they use tactical nukes to deter NATO from keep on supplying, then U.S. will respond as well with tactical nukes. They develop the new tactical nukes for just this reason.


----------



## thetutle

The SC said:


> Huge explosion in Kyiv
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507059887771164676
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506974888078331907


Yes the ship fire was just an accident. no missile involved. No US involvement. just an accidental fire on 3 ships. at the same time.


----------



## K_Bin_W

jhungary said:


> NATO is not Physically intervening (actually they kind of did by providing military aide to Ukraine) is because they don't want to give Putin any excuse to diversify this war. This war, is still small compare to the scale of other war (Russia uses only 1/7 or 1/9 of national strength), which is for them and Ukraine being manageable. Any intensify of this war will be unpredictable, it could range from an all out conventional war (Which will devastate Ukraine and the Baltics), to WW3, to thermonuclear war.
> 
> On the other hand, NATO already say there are no base line for nuclear attack, launching a nuke , regardless how small is the yield in Ukraine, will most likely trigger NATO response, which again, would either mean WW3 or nuclear exchange.
> 
> Both side are crazy,, but not that crazy to wanted the world to end..
> 
> 
> Name me another one?
> 
> There were like 5 or 6 Neo Nazi group in Ukraine, and Azov wasn't even in the top 3.


Wotanjugend is another but then whats the point so long they serve western interest and are good nazis


----------



## Oldman1

Wood said:


> Today I saw an interview of an active Ukrainian pilot. He said that they are able to fight against Russians even in encounters where the numbers are not in their favor by using tactics that they have learned from American partners. He also said that Ukrainian military has been preparing for the war for the last 8 years. They were not exactly caught off guard.
> 
> So I think America has been working with Ukranians for some time now.


They were still caught off guard especially the president. He didn't call for general mobilization until after the invasion. Even dismissed the possible invasion. The Ukrainian military had plans to deal with the invasion always preparing but it was the president's call if they should completely mobilize.

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## jhungary

Wood said:


> Today I saw an interview of an active Ukrainian pilot. He said that they are able to fight against Russians even in encounters where the numbers are not in their favor by using tactics that they have learned from American partners. He also said that Ukrainian military has been preparing for the war for the last 8 years. They were not exactly caught off guard.
> 
> So I think America has been working with Ukranians for some time now.


Many people don't know, but the American have been constantly helping out the Ukrainian in their defence after 2014. We have sent our National Guard troop trained with their national guard troop, and we have teach them counter tactics that we think how the Russia would attack.

That investment really do help the Ukrainian on their own defend

Make no mistake, they are expecting this since 2014, so this is a sort of a thing that people can see coming from a long way away.


K_Bin_W said:


> I remember watching a movie "War Games" Nuclear war is like tic-tac-toe - No winners so west don't want to get involved in something they cannot win.


Well, not just the west, Russia too.

Again, as I said many time, if the ultimate goal is for Russia to kick NATO border out of their own, they would have attack a smaller NATO member, not the non-NATO Ukraine.....

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## K_Bin_W

jhungary said:


> Many people don't know, but the American have been constantly helping out the Ukrainian in their defence after 2014. We have sent our National Guard troop trained with their national guard troop, and we have teach them counter tactics that we think how the Russia would attack.
> 
> That investment really do help the Ukrainian on their own defend
> 
> Make no mistake, they are expecting this since 2014, so this is a sort of a thing that people can see coming from a long way away.
> 
> Well, not just the west, Russia too.
> 
> Again, as I said many time, if the ultimate goal is for Russia to kick NATO border out of their own, they would have attack a smaller NATO member, not the non-NATO Ukraine.....



But nukes is the reason why NATO is not liberating Ukraine like they liberated half a dozen or more other countries and brought democracy...

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## Clutch

K_Bin_W said:


> The Azovs


----------



## Oldman1

K_Bin_W said:


> I remember watching a movie "War Games" Nuclear war is like tic-tac-toe - No winners so west don't want to get involved in something they cannot win.


NATO doesn't need to directly get involved. The Afghans in the 1980s didn't need NATO to push the Russians out. Just have to provide more supplies and better equipment. The Russians provided North Vietnam SAMs, fighter jets, etc.


----------



## K_Bin_W

Clutch said:


>



Yeah spot on...

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## The SC

Oldman1 said:


> Well that their problem if they decide to attack NATO. You don't want to give them a reason to do so. If they bomb a supply point where they are helping Ukraine in Poland, expect a response like bombing Russian vehicles and supply columns as well as Russian bases or outposts in Ukraine. Trust me, it won't be pretty for the Russians. And if they use tactical nukes to deter NATO from keep on supplying, then U.S. will respond as well with tactical nukes. They develop the new tactical nukes for just this reason.


We are not talking about supplying (Although the Russians said it was a dangerous move from NATO).. The Russians will use nukes only in the case of NATO boots in Ukraine..

Talking about the supplies.. I believe Russians are allowing it in order to seize Western weapons' technologies.. otherwise ..and with hundreds of spy satellites they possess.. they can just weight for the supplies to be 10 or 20 km inside Ukraine and hit them with precision missiles.. as simple as that.. a reason NATO want to send in only Russian tech weapons..


----------



## thetutle

8888888888888 said:


> Ukraine would have a lot of videos of that if it's successful, if not nothing.


there are other reasons why we aren't seeing any videos. they are probably classified.


----------



## Oldman1

K_Bin_W said:


> But nukes is the reason why NATO is not liberating Ukraine like they liberated half a dozen or more other countries and brought democracy...


Nukes is whats preventing Russia from attacking Poland and other countries supplying Ukraine.


----------



## K_Bin_W

Oldman1 said:


> NATO doesn't need to directly get involved. The Afghans in the 1980s didn't need NATO to push the Russians out. Just have to provide more supplies and better equipment. The Russians provided North Vietnam SAMs, fighter jets, etc.


Yeah but Ukraine is at western Europe's doorsteps very close to home and besides there is zero chance west will put boots on the ground for obvious reasons. Western massive propaganda aside I think Putin has already met his objectives there will be no NATO in Ukraine.



Oldman1 said:


> Nukes is whats preventing Russia from attacking Poland and other countries supplying Ukraine.


Russia is not as trigger-happy as the west.


----------



## Oldman1

The SC said:


> We are not talking about supplying (Although the Russians said it was a dangerous move from NATO).. The Russians will use nukes only in the case of NATO boots in Ukraine..
> 
> Talking about the supplies.. I believe Russians are allowing it in order to seize Western weapons' technologies.. otherwise ..and with hundreds of spy satellites they possess.. they can just weight for the supplies to be 10 or 20 km inside Ukraine and hit them with precision missiles.. as simple as that.. a reason NATO want to send in only Russian tech weapons..


LOL! They are not really allowing it. They just can't really stop it. I mean just look at the map. How many cruise missiles have they fired into Western Ukraine just yesterday? Its like the Ho Chi Minh Trail of Poland into Ukraine or Ho Chi Minh Trail in Western Ukraine into East.



K_Bin_W said:


> Yeah but Ukraine is at western Europe's doorsteps very close to home and besides there is zero chance west will put boots on the ground for obvious reasons. Western massive propaganda aside I think Putin has already met his objectives there will be no NATO in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> Russia is not as trigger-happy as the west.


Putin hasn't even been close to his objectives. No NATO is not enough for him if Ukraine decides to not join. In his view he wants to Denazify the government and the military. How realistic is that?


----------



## jhungary

K_Bin_W said:


> Wotanjugend is another but then whats the point so long they serve western interest and are good nazis


Actually, the biggest Neo Nazi Group in Ukraine is not Wotanjugend (That's an import group by the way, not homegrown) or Azov, effectively, Right Sector or Svoboda is probably a better example than Azov if we were to talk about Neo Nazism in Ukraine. Bith organisation have political and military ties with Ukrainian government.

First of all, I am not saying Neo Nazism does not exist in Ukraine, you are lying to yourself if you think that, Neo Nazism exist in any part of the world, even in Russia. The thing is, when we are talking about Neo Nazi, the primary group people will talk about, if they know about the real situation, is a group called OUN (Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalist) why? Because they are the biggest problem with Ukraine Neo Nazism right now (Well, when I say right now, it's before this war)

And OUN existed since WW2, when they were the one that collaborate with the *ACTUAL NAZI Germany*, that group was banned in Ukraine for both Governmental or Military position. Holding a gun when you are a member of OUN is against the law (Not anymore now, but that is another issue)









Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





So why people talk about Azov? Azov at best is a Far Right group, you can call them extremist, but they are by no mean the most influential, or even considered to be neo nazi, like Proud Boy, some consider them as Neo Nazi, some don't. The reason why people talk about Azov is because they are most well known, and because the foundning father of Azov Battalion was a neo nazi, although he is no longer involved with Azov.

On the other hand, strangely enough, Zelenskyy WAS the only president in Ukraine that had done anything to curb the Far Right or Neo Nazi movement. If you have follow local Ukrainian news and election result, you would know the far right party Svoboda, which is the combination of all Neo Nazi party n Ukraine have loss 90% of their foothold in Rada since Zelenskyy become president. In 2019 Rada election, which held 5 months after Zelenskyy presidency, Svoboda lost 5 out of 6 seat in Rada. If this is what we go by, the current government is probably the least bit of Neo Nazi than any of the precursive government...


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## K_Bin_W

Oldman1 said:


> LOL! They are not really allowing it. They just can't really stop it. I mean just look at the map. How many cruise missiles have they fired into Western Ukraine just yesterday? Its like the Ho Chi Minh Trail of Poland into Ukraine or Ho Chi Minh Trail in Western Ukraine into East.
> 
> 
> Putin hasn't even been close to his objectives. No NATO is not enough for him if Ukraine decides to not join. In his view he wants to Denazify the government and the military. How realistic is that?



Thats what the west thinks - Putin has destroyed Ukraine war-making capability and Ukraine will not join Nato, says Zelenskiy, as shelling of Kyiv continues.









Ukraine will not join Nato, says Zelenskiy, as shelling of Kyiv continues


Ukrainian president’s statement comes as three EU leaders arrive in city to express solidarity amid heavy bombardment




www.theguardian.com





The rest is all noise and irrelevant...


----------



## jhungary

K_Bin_W said:


> But nukes is the reason why NATO is not liberating Ukraine like they liberated half a dozen or more other countries and brought democracy...


Why would NATO need to liberate Ukraine? Ukraine were under attack by the Russian, it's the Russian who want to "Liberate" Ukraine from the evil NATO clutches. Not the other way around.....

I mean, why would NATO want to liberate a country that is "Pro-NATO" to begin with.....

What you said did not make sense.


----------



## K_Bin_W

jhungary said:


> Actually, the biggest Neo Nazi Group in Ukraine is not Wotanjugend (That's an import group by the way, not homegrown) or Azov, effectively, Right Sector or Svoboda is probably a better example than Azov if we were to talk about Neo Nazism in Ukraine. Bith organisation have political and military ties with Ukrainian government.
> 
> First of all, I am not saying Neo Nazism does not exist in Ukraine, you are lying to yourself if you think that, Neo Nazism exist in any part of the world, even in Russia. The thing is, when we are talking about Neo Nazi, the primary group people will talk about, if they know about the real situation, is a group called OUN (Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalist) why? Because they are the biggest problem with Ukraine Neo Nazism right now (Well, when I say right now, it's before this war)
> 
> And OUN existed since WW2, when they were the one that collaborate with the *ACTUAL NAZI Germany*, that group was banned in Ukraine for both Governmental or Military position. Holding a gun when you are a member of OUN is against the law (Not anymore now, but that is another issue)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So why people talk about Azov? Azov at best is a Far Right group, you can call them extremist, but they are by no mean the most influential, or even considered to be neo nazi, like Proud Boy, some consider them as Neo Nazi, some don't. The reason why people talk about Azov is because they are most well known, and because the foundning father of Azov Battalion was a neo nazi, although he is no longer involved with Azov.
> 
> On the other hand, strangely enough, Zelenskyy WAS the only president in Ukraine that had done anything to curb the Far Right or Neo Nazi movement. If you have follow local Ukrainian news and election result, you would know the far right party Svoboda, which is the combination of all Neo Nazi party n Ukraine have loss 90% of their foothold in Rada since Zelenskyy become president. In 2019 Rada election, which held 5 months after Zelenskyy presidency, Svoboda lost 5 out of 6 seat in Rada. If this is what we go by, the current government is probably the least bit of Neo Nazi than any of the precursive government...




But they are good Nazis.. right, and west can provide them arms and be chums..No


----------



## Oldman1

K_Bin_W said:


> Thats what the west thinks - Putin has destroyed Ukraine war-making capability and Ukraine will not join Nato, says Zelenskiy, as shelling of Kyiv continues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine will not join Nato, says Zelenskiy, as shelling of Kyiv continues
> 
> 
> Ukrainian president’s statement comes as three EU leaders arrive in city to express solidarity amid heavy bombardment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The rest is all noise and irrelevant...


Zelenskyy is saying Ukraine CAN'T join because of the conflict prior to the invasion as well as during the war. In other words, won't be allowed to because NATO members don't want to go to WW3. Thats different than saying Ukraine will back away from joining it because of Putin.


----------



## PakFactor

kingQamaR said:


> Not the same way at all. Show me a city in Afghanistan Iraq flattened like this, and in 3 weeks. It didn't happen. I'm not saying there are not criticisms to be made, but the two do not equate.



Operation Phantom Fury in Iraq is one example and every time the Israelis engage in Gaza. Just for note purposes, I honestly don’t care how many Russians or Ukrainians die or if this conflict expands into the rest of blonde hair blue eyed Europe for all I care they can end up dead I wouldn’t lose sleep any day.

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## K_Bin_W

jhungary said:


> Why would NATO need to liberate Ukraine? They were under attack by the Russian, it's the Russian who want to "Liberate" Ukraine. Not the other way around.....


Russia already has well almost of it and the west is in the habit of liberating countries so they should liberate Ukraine from the Russkies.


----------



## jhungary

K_Bin_W said:


> Russia already has well almost of it and the west is in the habit of liberating countries so they should liberate Ukraine from the Russkies.


Are we watching the same map? I wouldn't called Russian taking just 2 cities (small size metro city) in the entire 4 week campaign is "Close" to anything. By now, we would already have 70% of Iraqi city including Baghdad when we invaded Iraq back in 2003.


----------



## Oldman1

K_Bin_W said:


> Russia already has well almost of it and the west is in the habit of liberating countries so they should liberate Ukraine from the Russkies.


Russia is not even close to "liberating" Ukraine.


----------



## K_Bin_W

Oldman1 said:


> Zelenskyy is saying Ukraine CAN'T join because of the conflict prior to the invasion as well as during the war. In other words, won't be allowed to because NATO members don't want to go to WW3. Thats different than saying Ukraine will back away from joining it because of Putin.


You are very disconnected from ground realities, you are very very disconnected from mama google 









Ukraine quashes suggestion it could drop Nato plans to avoid war


Ambassador backtracks after appearing to say country could be forced by Russia to shelve Nato ambition




www.theguardian.com


----------



## jhungary

K_Bin_W said:


> But they are good Nazis.. right, and west can provide them arms and be chums..No


Well, that proof you have no idea what this is all about.


----------



## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Are we watching the same map? I wouldn't called Russian taking just 2 cities (small size metro city) in the entire 4 week campaign is "Close" to anything. By now, we would already have 70% of Iraqi city including Baghdad when we invaded Iraq back in 2003.


Probably looking at the Russian version.


----------



## K_Bin_W

Oldman1 said:


> Russia is not even close to "liberating" Ukraine.



Russia is not there to capture and torture Ukraine but its prime objectives are to keep NATO out and that is met for sure.


----------



## Oldman1

K_Bin_W said:


> You are very disconnected from ground realities, you are very very disconnected from mama google
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine quashes suggestion it could drop Nato plans to avoid war
> 
> 
> Ambassador backtracks after appearing to say country could be forced by Russia to shelve Nato ambition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com


I'm just pointing out what the president said.


----------



## K_Bin_W

jhungary said:


> Well, that proof you have no idea what this is all about.



Just like good Taliban you know, just look it up there are good taliban and bad taliban.


----------



## Oldman1

K_Bin_W said:


> Russia is not there to capture and torture Ukraine but its prime objectives are to keep NATO out and that is met for sure.


Sure...


----------



## jhungary

K_Bin_W said:


> Just like good Taliban you know, just look it up there are good taliban and bad taliban.


Again, that only proof you have no idea what you are talking about in Ukraine.

This is not a "Good Taliban" "Bad Taliban" situation. 

This is about you don't know anything regarding the Neo Nazi situation in Ukraine and then use some arbitrary group and show me the "Good Neo Nazi and Bad Neo Nazi" bit. While ignore (either intentional or being ignorant) the actual Neo Nazi group in Ukraine when you talk about Neo Nazi...

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## K_Bin_W

Oldman1 said:


> I'm just pointing out what the president said.



You are not reading the news, I suggest you get out more often, There were negotiations and plans to bring Ukraine under NATO like many other states after the collapse of USSR. 

Mark my words Ukraine will never join NATO and Zelenskiy confirmed that.


----------



## Oldman1

K_Bin_W said:


> You are not reading the news, I suggest you get out more often, There were negotiations and plans to bring Ukraine under NATO like many other states after the collapse of USSR.
> 
> Mark my words Ukraine will never join NATO and Zelenskiy confirmed that.


Well since you claim that Ukraine is not joining NATO, then the Russians should be already be packing and leaving then.


----------



## K_Bin_W

jhungary said:


> Again, that only proof you have no idea what you are talking about in Ukraine.
> 
> This is not a "Good Taliban" "Bad Taliban" situation.
> 
> This is about you don't know anything regarding the Neo Nazi situation in Ukraine and then use some arbitrary group and show me the "Good Neo Nazi and Bad Neo Nazi" bit. While ignore (either intentional or being ignorant) the actual Neo Nazi group in Ukraine when you talk about Neo Nazi...



Show me the good Taliban and bad Taliban, there is no such thing as good nazi or bad nazi a nazi is a nazi BUT its a good Nazi or a good Taliban if they serve western interests... Taliban use to be Mujahdeen that fought USSR you do the math.



Oldman1 said:


> Well since you claim that Ukraine is not joining NATO, then the Russians should be already be packing and leaving then.


Oh they will mark my words again


----------



## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Probably looking at the Russian version.


lol, nah...

I have seen the Russian version, map wise is the same, but they try to spin it up as in 2 stupid cities is worth all these Russian dying for. 

I don't know what he is looking at, it's not any version of the map


----------



## The SC

K_Bin_W said:


> Russia already has well almost of it and the west is in the habit of liberating countries so they should liberate Ukraine from the Russkies.










The west will tell you.. yeah right .. but Russkies have nukes.. in the thousands..lol


----------



## Oldman1

K_Bin_W said:


> Oh they will mark my words again


But you said Russia has met its objectives and Ukraine won't join NATO. I already marked your words.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jhungary

K_Bin_W said:


> Show me the good Taliban and bad Taliban, there is no such thing as good nazi or bad nazi a nazi is a nazi BUT its a good Nazi or a good Taliban if they serve western interests... Taliban use to be Mujahdeen that fought USSR you do the math.
> 
> 
> Oh they will mark my words again


We aren't talking about Good Taliban, Bad Taliban, were there Taliban in Ukraine?

This is new to me...

And by thwe way, you are right, Nazi is a Nazi and they are bad, you just refused to talk to me about the ACTUAL Neo Nazi in Ukraine when you are talking about the Neo Nazi in Ukraine.


----------



## K_Bin_W

Oldman1 said:


> But you said Russia has met its objectives and Ukraine won't join NATO. I already marked your words.


Good and remember that, print and hang on the wall.... NO NATO in UKRAINE so that you always remember.

and that is the biggest sweet spot for the Russkies the rest is gravy


----------



## Oldman1

K_Bin_W said:


> Good and remember that, print and hang on the wall.... NO NATO in UKRAINE so that you always remember.
> 
> and that is the biggest sweet spot for the Russkies the rest is gravy


But the Russians haven't left yet. Ukraine is not in NATO and you claim they won't be. Why haven't they left?


----------



## K_Bin_W

jhungary said:


> We aren't talking about Good Taliban, Bad Taliban, were there Taliban in Ukraine?
> 
> This is new to me...



You are not getting the gist of the argument, Its not about Nazis in A-Stan or Taliban in Ukraine. Its about serving western interests, so long the Nazis serve western interests they are good just like mujahdeen were back in the 80s and 90s.



Oldman1 said:


> But the Russians haven't left yet. Ukraine is not in NATO and you claim they won't be. Why haven't they left?



You leave that to Russkies its their backyard, You just make sure Ukraine never joins NATO or there will be another round of spanking. LMAO...


----------



## Oldman1

K_Bin_W said:


> You leave that to Russkies its their backyard, You just make sure Ukraine never joins NATO or there will be another round of spanking. LMAO...


I don't have to leave it to the Russians. You said the Russians met their objectives yet they are still in Ukraine even after the president said won't join NATO. I can't tell Ukraine what to do or don't do.


----------



## jhungary

K_Bin_W said:


> You are not getting the gist of the argument, Its not about Nazis in A-Stan or Taliban in Ukraine. Its about serving western interests, so long the Nazis serve western interests they are good just like mujahdeen were back in the 80s and 90s.
> 
> 
> 
> You leave that to Russkies its their backyard, You just make sure Ukraine never joins NATO or there will be another round of spanking. LMAO...


You probably did not know that I have edited my post.

I also said this

And by the way, you are right, Nazi is a Nazi and they are bad, you just refused to talk to me about the* ACTUAL *Neo Nazi in Ukraine when you are talking about the Neo Nazi in Ukraine.

You are like telling me Motorcycle gang is bad and the government is doing nothing about them then you proceed to talk to me about the motorcycle rider next door to you how he did donut and speed and harassing the resident there, and you simply ignore gang like Hell Angel or Comanchero

I mean, the government would have a different treatment to gang like Comanchero and Hell's Angel than your next door neighbour...


----------



## khansaheeb

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Ukraine is fighting this as a total war with every man 18-60 drafted. Russia is fighting this as a limited war. So far the Russian commitment is a bit higher than US during Vietnam which was a high intensity but nonetheless limited war for the US.
> 
> Russia still has escalatory options that have not been exercised though they should.


US had about 600K soldiers in Vietnam excluding the South Vietnamese forces. So your statement is a little bit out. 
Here are some interesting stats about Vietnam war:-


https://post3legion.org/Vietnam_Statistics.pdf


----------



## K_Bin_W

jhungary said:


> You probably did not know that I have edited my post.
> 
> I also said this
> 
> And by the way, you are right, Nazi is a Nazi and they are bad, you just refused to talk to me about the* ACTUAL *Neo Nazi in Ukraine when you are talking about the Neo Nazi in Ukraine.
> 
> You are like telling me Motorcycle gang is bad then you proceed to talk to me about the motorcycle rider next door to you how he did donut and speed and harassing the resident there, and you simply ignore gang like Hell Angel or Comanchero



No I am not ignoring any gangs instead you are spinning, You are missing the gist, Mujahdeen were good when they were serving US interests same in Ukraine so long Nazis are serving western interests they will be ignored.



Oldman1 said:


> I don't have to leave it to the Russians. You said the Russians met their objectives yet they are still in Ukraine even after the president said won't join NATO. I can't tell Ukraine what to do or don't do.



You also said Zelenskyy is saying Ukraine CAN'T join because of the conflict prior to the invasion lol..... Go back and read again..... 

Repeat.. NO NATO IN UKRAINE..


----------



## CAPRICORN-88



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## jhungary

K_Bin_W said:


> No I am not ignoring any gangs instead you are spinning, You are missing the gist, Mujahdeen were good when they were serving US interests same in Ukraine so long Nazis are serving western interests they will be ignored.


As I said, you are ignoring the other gang. In fact, do you even know there are other gang before I told you so?

Going to revert back to the motorcycle gang example I raise. You are saying your government did not do anything to that motorcycle gang and they are bad, then you proceed to tell me it was your next door neighbor who is terrorising your neighbourhood.

You do know your government would probably treated Hells Angel and Comanchero differently than your next door neighbor who ride motorcycle, right? So you either need to go thru and examine what Neo Nazi did to Ukraine and not just take a random example and say "Oh, they see that good Nazi when they were helping them" when you also failed to see how the Ukrainian government banning Neo Nazi group.


----------



## Oldman1

K_Bin_W said:


> You also said Zelenskyy is saying Ukraine CAN'T join because of the conflict prior to the invasion lol..... Go back and read again.....
> 
> Repeat.. NO NATO IN UKRAINE..


Yes Zelenskyy said that, so why are the Russians not leaving?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507194620467326991
A tweet by the ambassador of Finland in Morocco and Mauritania in Rabat, announces Finland's annoyance with Morocco's position not to participate in the international vote against Russia.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507071167789686796


----------



## khansaheeb

Wood said:


> These people from Dagestan or Chechnya are likely to not have any ideological motivation or justification to enter Ukraine. They are either doing it for money or they don't have a choice


Chechnyans certainly seem to be enjoying their rubles.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## K_Bin_W

jhungary said:


> As I said, you are ignoring the other gang. In fact, do you even know there are other gang before I told you so?
> 
> Going to revert back to the motorcycle gang example I raise. You are saying your government did not do anything to that motorcycle gang and they are bad, then you proceed to tell me it was your next door neighbor who is terrorising your neighbourhood.
> 
> You do know your government would probably treated Hells Angel and Comanchero differently than your next door neighbor who ride motorcycle, right? So you either need to go thru and examine what Neo Nazi did to Ukraine and not just take a random example and say "Oh, they see that good Nazi when they were helping them" when you also failed to see how the Ukrainian government banning Neo Nazi group.



You proved me right, This is exactly I am getting to... Its exactly tied to the famous US actions of good vs bad depending on who serves the US/West interests. It does not make any difference if Hells Angels is my neighbor or US neighbor and a killer... The bottom line is that US will work with Nazis and Taliban/Mujahdeen so long they serve US/west interests. That's how US/west operates it does not matter if it was Hitler....



The SC said:


> The west will tell you.. yeah right .. but Russkies have nukes.. in the thousands..lol


I know, about close to 7K..


----------



## jhungary

K_Bin_W said:


> You proved me right, This is exactly I am getting to... Its exactly tied to the famous US actions of good vs bad depending on who serves the US/West interests. It does not make any difference if Hells Angels is my neighbor or US neighbor and a killer... The bottom line is that US will work with Nazis and Taliban/Mujahdeen so long they serve US/west interests. That's how US/west operates it does not matter if it was Hitler....


So literally, you just ignore the fact that I said OUN was banned by Ukrainian government and any OUN member is seen holding a weapon is an arrestable offence...And OUN were the biggest single Neo Nazi group in Ukraine.

I said exactly the opposite of what you said actually.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507214158382571525

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Tamerlane

What I’ve heard is that neocons and other hardliners have pushed Biden aside, are in control, and are planning to escalate this conflict.

The planners of this war are obviously not going to back off now. Neither will Putin. So chances of escalation are very high. 

This could mean shoving Poland into the fire as the next sacrificial lamb. The final aim is to destroy Russia even at the risk of nuclear conflict.

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## K_Bin_W

Oldman1 said:


> Yes Zelenskyy said that, so why are the Russians not leaving?



But you said that there were no plans for Ukraine to join NATO.. Is Ukraine joining NATO please please say yes..


----------



## Oldman1

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507214158382571525


This their way of trying to Denazify the Ukrainian government and the military?

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## K_Bin_W

jhungary said:


> So literally, you just ignore the fact that I said OUN was banned by Ukrainian government and any OUN member is seen holding a weapon is an arrestable offence...And OUN were the biggest single Neo Nazi group in Ukraine.
> 
> I said exactly the opposite of what you said actually.



But what about other Nazis, there is tons of in-depth details on them... Are they good Nazis...


----------



## khansaheeb

Amliunion said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506702136691683329
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506702139531284480
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506702142274347009
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506702144988082178
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506702147848531977
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506702150679732231


US Planners are brilliant-"The resulting prices on not just gas, but on all imported commodities in the EU are set to skyrocket. This is going to cause massive instability, which the US eagerly hopes to exploit."


----------



## Oldman1

K_Bin_W said:


> But you said that there were no plans for Ukraine to join NATO.. Is Ukraine joining NATO please please say yes..


I said if Ukraine wants to join NATO. Since you pointed out that Ukraine isn't going to, then the Russians should be leaving.


----------



## jhungary

K_Bin_W said:


> But what about other Nazis, there is tons of in-depth details on them... Are they good Nazis...


What other Nazi?

Azov? Svaboda? Right Sector?

Have I told you they have all lost seat in the Parliament in the last election?? And not just 1 or 2, they lost 5 out of the 6 they held.

And I am pretty sure the entire Ukrainian defence is anchoring on the Azov Battalion........around 600 men.....Dude, do you know how many Ukrainian Troop in Ukraine? 600 men is nothing, not even a regiment or a brigade...

But yeah, sure, keep talking about them like they did everything in Ukraine and were treated as the "good nazi"

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## K_Bin_W

jhungary said:


> What other Nazi?
> 
> Azov? Svaboda? Right Sector?
> 
> Have I told you they have all lost seat in the Parliament in the last election?? And not just 1 or 2, they lost 5 out of the 6 they held.



LOL.. Who gives a rats a$$ about Ukrainian kangaroo parliament.. The bottom line is they are good Nazis because they are fighting Russkies right...



Oldman1 said:


> I said if Ukraine wants to join NATO. Since you pointed out that Ukraine isn't going to, then the Russians should be leaving.


You pointed out Ukraine was not going to join NATO before the war, so what happened then..


----------



## khansaheeb

K_Bin_W said:


> But what about other Nazis, there is tons of in-depth details on them... Are they good Nazis...


Don't forget the Nazis who have setup apartheid, hope the Russians send them to the gallows too.

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## Oldman1

K_Bin_W said:


> LOL.. Who gives a rats a$$ about Ukrainian kangaroo parliament.. The bottom line is they are good Nazis because they are fighting Russkies right...
> 
> 
> You pointed out Ukraine was not going to join NATO before the war, so what happened then..


I said Ukraine can't be allowed to join NATO because of the conflict prior to the invasion as well as during the invasion as you quoted me. And as you pointed out, the president said Ukraine isn't going to be part of NATO loud and clear during the war, so why are the Russians not leaving?


----------



## jhungary

K_Bin_W said:


> LOL.. Who gives a rats a$$ about Ukrainian kangaroo parliament.. The bottom line is they are good Nazis because they are fighting Russkies right...


Apparently, you did

Otherwise why comment on something you don't care about?

And as I said, sure, the entire Ukrainian defence anchor on the 600 men Azov Battalion, they are the last line of defence, the gate to the city. When they were not even a regiment or a brigade

And as I said, the government treat them as good nazi because they do everything in Ukraine, right? Again, tell me how "Nazi" they were, when 30% of Azov Battalion were Jewish. This is as stupid as saying Zelenskyy is the head of a Neo Nazi regime. In fact, one of the Azov Commander (Nathan Khazin) were actually Jewish, then I guess if you can claim a Jewish President who have commanded a Neo Nazi organisation, it also make sense for a Jew to command a Neo Nazi corp......LOL


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507146136422866954








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506895152325054470

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## khansaheeb

Oldman1 said:


> I said if Ukraine wants to join NATO. Since you pointed out that Ukraine isn't going to, then the Russians should be leaving.


Too late now, it is a fight to a conclusion, no going back and no peace until a knockout.

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## K_Bin_W

Oldman1 said:


> I said Ukraine can't be allowed to join NATO because of the conflict prior to the invasion as well as during the invasion as you quoted me. And as you pointed out, the president said Ukraine isn't going to be part of NATO loud and clear during the war, so why are the Russians not leaving?



So is Ukraine joining NATO or not? LOL..... Please say yes and see Russkie rod in action... 

Since you are so eager for Russkie to leave, they will leave after you go there personally and tell em no NATO in Ukraine... LMAO....

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507025898951876609


----------



## Oldman1

khansaheeb said:


> Too late now, it is a fight to a conclusion, no going back and no peace until a knockout.


Yep, now they have to try to Denazify the government and the mlitary besides preventing them from joining NATO. Lots of objectives to meet.

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## K_Bin_W

khansaheeb said:


> Too late now, it is a fight to a conclusion, no going back and no peace until a knockout.



Well to be honest while west is winning on Twitter Putin is winning in Ukraine.

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## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> Apparently, you did
> 
> Otherwise why comment on something you don't care about?
> 
> And as I said, sure, the entire Ukrainian defence anchor on the 600 men Azov Battalion, they are the last line of defence, the gate to the city. When they were not even a regiment or a brigade
> 
> And as I said, the government treat them as good nazi because they do everything in Ukraine, right? Again, tell me how "Nazi" they were, when 30% of Azov Battalion were Jewish. This is as stupid as saying Zelenskyy is the head of a Neo Nazi regime. In fact, one of the Azov Commander (Nathan Khazin) were actually Jewish, then I guess if you can claim a Jewish President who have commanded a Neo Nazi organisation, it also make sense for a Jew to command a Neo Nazi corp......LOL


Nothing is surprising in this world and age.


----------



## Oldman1

K_Bin_W said:


> So is Ukraine joining NATO or not? LOL..... Please say yes and see Russkie rod in action...
> 
> Since you are so eager for Russkie to leave, they will leave after you go there personally and tell em no NATO in Ukraine... LMAO....


But you said the Russians achieved their objectives with the President saying no NATO in Ukraine, as you pointed out in his own words. So why are the Russians not leaving?


----------



## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> I said Ukraine can't be allowed to join NATO because of the conflict prior to the invasion as well as during the invasion as you quoted me. And as you pointed out, the president said Ukraine isn't going to be part of NATO loud and clear during the war, so why are the Russians not leaving?


LOL, this guy is funny

If this is about NATO, then tell me why Russia sell S-400 to Turkey to begin with??

This was never about NATO....



khansaheeb said:


> Nothing is surprising in this world and age.


Sure, and someday I will hit the lotto and become a super duper billionaire

One can only hope.

But hoping for a Jew to get in charge of a Neo Nazi group. LOL

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507093633987715077


----------



## K_Bin_W

Oldman1 said:


> But you said the Russians achieved their objectives with the President saying no NATO in Ukraine, as you pointed out in his own words. So why are the Russians not leaving?



But you said Ukraine is not joining NATO...LOL... Tell us Ukraine is or not..


----------



## Oldman1

K_Bin_W said:


> Well to be honest while west is winning on Twitter Putin is winning in Ukraine.


Very doubtful Putin is winning in Ukraine.



K_Bin_W said:


> But you said Ukraine is not joining NATO...LOL... Tell us Ukraine is or not..


The president says so, so that means Russians can leave, they completed their objective as you said.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507105409513005064

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> LOL, this guy is funny
> 
> If this is about NATO, then tell me why Russia sell S-400 to Turkey to begin with??
> 
> This was never about NATO....


Nor about Nazis either.

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## K_Bin_W

jhungary said:


> Apparently, you did
> 
> Otherwise why comment on something you don't care about?
> 
> And as I said, sure, the entire Ukrainian defence anchor on the 600 men Azov Battalion, they are the last line of defence, the gate to the city. When they were not even a regiment or a brigade
> 
> And as I said, the government treat them as good nazi because they do everything in Ukraine, right? Again, tell me how "Nazi" they were, when 30% of Azov Battalion were Jewish. This is as stupid as saying Zelenskyy is the head of a Neo Nazi regime. In fact, one of the Azov Commander (Nathan Khazin) were actually Jewish, then I guess if you can claim a Jewish President who have commanded a Neo Nazi organisation, it also make sense for a Jew to command a Neo Nazi corp......LOL



Their size is irrelevant and there are other Nazi groups too apart from Azov, the fact that they are labeled good Nazis because they serve your interest does not negate the fact that they are nazis, there are tons of documentaries on the Ukrainian nazis and I hope you do understand the definition of a nazi.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507091431420272642

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507066972663599104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507063742860873736


----------



## K_Bin_W

Oldman1 said:


> Very doubtful Putin is winning in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> The president says so, so that means Russians can leave, they completed their objective as you said.



Since you said Russkies are not winning in Ukraine then why do you want them to leave.. You want Shri Putin to believe the president LOL....


----------



## Viet

What happened?
I read, as per Ukrainian general staff, parts of Russia invasion army withdrew and returned back to the motherland?
Running out of foods, fuel and ammo.


----------



## Oldman1

K_Bin_W said:


> Since you said Russkies are not winning in Ukraine then why do you want them to leave.. You want Shri Putin to believe the president LOL....


Not winning the rest of their objectives besides getting Ukraine to back out of NATO. Still have to Denazify the government and the military as well as its population. Thats not very realistic. As you said, the Russians met their objectives in getting the president to not join NATO. But the rest of the objectives is well as I said before unrealistic.


----------



## K_Bin_W

khansaheeb said:


> Don't forget the Nazis who have setup apartheid, hope the Russians send them to the gallows too.



I wish, the Russkies wipe them out from Ukraine, It will a much better place.

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## Oldman1

Viet said:


> What happened?
> I read, as per Ukrainian general staff, parts of Russia invasion army withdrew and returned back to the motherland?


Worse, some of the Russian forces are being cut off.


----------



## K_Bin_W

Oldman1 said:


> Not winning the rest of their objectives besides getting Ukraine to back out of NATO. Still have to Denazify the government and the military as well as its population. Thats not very realistic. As you said, the Russians met their objectives in getting the president to not join NATO. But the rest of the objectives will is well not as I said before unrealistic.



But you said Ukraine had no plans to join NATO, well are they or not? And if not why not... The Russkies will do a mop up on the way out...



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507105409513005064


This is how desperate West is getting.. LOL..

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## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507091431420272642
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507066972663599104
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507063742860873736


Putin will send Shoigu and Gerasimov to Siberia gulag.

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## Oldman1

K_Bin_W said:


> But you said Ukraine had no plans to join NATO, well are they or not? And if not why not... The Russkies will do a mop up on the way out...
> 
> 
> This is how desperate West is getting.. LOL..


You said the Russians have achieved their objective in persuading the president to say no to NATO. Now the denazifying is more unrealistic expectation.



K_Bin_W said:


> I wish, the Russkies wipe them out from Ukraine, It will a much better place.


They can try but its very unrealistic.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506886157874966530

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## Viet

Oldman1 said:


> Worse, some of the Russian forces are being cut off.


That happens when Putin is surrounded by loyal lackeys. They made expectations of a Blitzkrieg. So I don’t wonder why Russia invasion army runs out of fuel. They are not prepared.

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## Oldman1

Viet said:


> Putin will send Shoigu and Gerasimov to Siberia gulag.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507094149094334470
Think he's gone. They reused some of the footage.

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## K_Bin_W

Oldman1 said:


> You said the Russians have achieved their objective in persuading the president to say no to NATO. Now the denazifying is more unrealistic expectation.
> 
> 
> They can try but its very unrealistic.



Ah you never know the Russkies can be brutal

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## Oldman1

Viet said:


> That happens when Putin is surrounded by loyal lackeys. They made expectations of a Blitzkrieg. So I don’t wonder why Russia invasion army runs out of fuel. They are not prepared.


Well as you said they tried to go quick, but didn't expect encountering hard Ukrainian resistance.



K_Bin_W said:


> Ah you never know the Russkies can be brutal


Oh thats for sure. Ukrainians will see to that as well.


----------



## Viet

Oldman1 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507094149094334470
> Think he's gone. They reused some of the footage.


They can be happy in gulag.
If Stalin still there Shoigu will stand before execution commando.

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## The SC

Two statements are enough to raise oil prices..
First Putin says exports to Europe have been reduced
The second is kSA, with a passing statement that the facilities need a month to return to full production as a result of the Houthi attacks..

And there is a 3rd statement:

Quoted by Pavel Sorokin, Deputy Minister of Energy of Russia.. that Russian and Kazakh oil exports through the Caspian Sea Pipeline Consortium could drop by as much as 1 million barrels of oil per day due to storm-damaged sidewalks..The oil company quoted the Deputy Minister of Energy of Russia saying that the aforementioned pipeline, which ships and transports about 1.2 million barrels per day or 1.2% of global oil demand will be out of order until about two months of repair work..

After this statement, we can easily see prices above $180 a barrel..


----------



## K_Bin_W

Oldman1 said:


> Well as you said they tried to go quick, but didn't expect encountering hard Ukrainian resistance.
> 
> 
> Oh thats for sure. Ukrainians will see to that as well.



Have you not seen enough, Crimea gone, NATO gone, DPR and the LPR gone... LOL.. wonder what else....

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## Viet

Oldman1 said:


> Well as you said they tried to go quick, but didn't expect encountering hard Ukrainian resistance.
> 
> 
> Oh thats for sure. Ukrainians will see to that as well.


Russia produces 11 million barrels oil per day. Putin gives 3 million barrels to the army, the rest is used domestically or sold to foreigners.
So the invasion army should have oil.

The problem is logistics.

They never imagine to have a war of attrition.
Russia is finished.


----------



## jhungary

K_Bin_W said:


> Their size is irrelevant and there are other Nazi groups too apart from Azov, the fact that they are labeled good Nazis because they serve your interest does not negate the fact that they are nazis, there are tons of documentaries on the Ukrainian nazis and I hope you do understand the definition of a nazi.


First of all size DID matter.

Second of all, Azov is what we will call a fringe group, they are most definitely a right wing group but it mostly did not count as Neo Nazi, calling them Neo Nazi is like calling Proud Boy neo Nazi. Again, 30% of Azov Battalion is Jewish and some Azov group commander is Jewish.

Thirdly, when your country is under attack, you tend to ignore what those group were for originally, as I said before OUN was banned from forming militia and banned from running for government, now they can form local militia. Were this because of Ukrainian "Pro-NazI" or were this because of Russia pushing Ukraine to the limit?


----------



## K_Bin_W

jhungary said:


> First of all size DID matter.
> 
> Second of all, Azov is what we will call a fringe group, they are most definitely a right wing group but it mostly did not count as Neo Nazi, calling them Neo Nazi is like calling Proud Boy neo Nazi. Again, 30% of Azov Battalion is Jewish and some Azov group commander is Jewish.
> 
> Thirdly, when your country is under attack, you tend to ignore what those group were for originally, as I said before OUN was banned from forming militia and banned from running for government, now they can form local militia. Were this because of Ukrainian "Pro-NazI" or were this because of Russia pushing Ukraine to the limit?


Well that is double standard then, You ignore the fact that they are nazis, Why are German Nazis bad boys when their motives and actions were not very different from the Ukrainian Nazis. No matter what spin you give a Nazi is a Nazi PEROID...

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## jhungary

K_Bin_W said:


> Well that is double standard then, You ignore the fact that they are nazis, Why are German Nazis bad boys when their motives and actions were not very different from the Ukrainian Nazis. No matter what spin you give a Nazi is a Nazi PEROID...


First of all, you are confused with the term "Far Right" to "Nazism". Far Right is "Nationalist" movement, which is based upon Authoritarianism, it's a nativism movement, it have nothing to do with Nazism or Neo Nazism. Nazism and Neo Nazism is the revival of Nazism movement, which is a eugenic base, where they were anti-Semitism, anti-Communism and anti-Liberal Democracy.

A group can be Far Right, but not Neo Nazi, but you cannot be a Neo Nazi without being in the far right movement. 

In this term, many would have purported that Azov is a Far Right movement, does that mean there are neo-nazi member in it? Sure, as I said, Neo Nazi is a subset of Far Right movement, but for an organisation to be Neo Nazism, that was based in Eugenic, which mean by definition, they are White Supremist. And that is one core ideology you cannot negotiate to be a Neo Nazi organisation. 

So, no, you cannot be a Neo Nazi organisation to have Jewish member in it, let alone having a Jewish member lead the organisation. Saying that is like saying it's okay for Buddhism to preach Christianity and believe in Jesus is the real god. I mean, individual personnel can change faith, but once that requirement of faith is change, it also would have changed the organisation. A Buddhist temple that purport Jesus is the real god is then by definition, no longer a Buddhist Temple.

And second of all, Neo Nazism exist in every country, so by that definition, every country would have so called "good nazi, bad nazi" Russia too. Which render the talk moot to begin with.









How Putin cultivated homegrown neo-Nazis for his own ends


While Russian President Vladimir Putin has made the absurd claim that he is waging war to "de-Nazify" Ukraine, his regime has a long record of collaboration with far-right extremists, writes Robert Horvath.




www.abc.net.au


----------



## K_Bin_W

jhungary said:


> First of all, you are confused with the term "Far Right" to "Nazism". Far Right is "Nationalist" movement, which is based upon Authoritarianism, it's a nativism movement, it have nothing to do with Nazism or Neo Nazism. Nazism and Neo Nazism is the revival of Nazism movement, which is a eugenic base, where they were anti-Semitism, anti-Communism and anti-Liberal Democracy.
> 
> A group can be Far Right, but not Neo Nazi, but you cannot be a Neo Nazi without being in the far right movement.
> 
> In this term, many would have purported that Azov is a Far Right movement, does that mean there are neo-nazi member in it? Sure, as I said, Neo Nazi is a subset of Far Right movement, but for an organisation to be Neo Nazism, that was based in Eugenic, which mean by definition, they are White Supremist. And that is one core ideology you cannot negotiate to be a Neo Nazi organisation.
> 
> So, no, you cannot be a Neo Nazi organisation to have Jewish member in it, let alone having a Jewish member lead the organisation. Saying that is like saying it's okay for Buddhism to preach Christianity and believe in Jesus is the real god. I mean, individual personnel can change faith, but once that requirement of faith is change, it also would have changed the organisation. A Buddhist temple that purport Jesus is the real god is then by definition, no longer a Buddhist Temple.
> 
> And second of all, Neo Nazism exist in every country, so by that definition, every country would have so called "good nazi, bad nazi" Russia too. Which render the talk moot to begin with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How Putin cultivated homegrown neo-Nazis for his own ends
> 
> 
> While Russian President Vladimir Putin has made the absurd claim that he is waging war to "de-Nazify" Ukraine, his regime has a long record of collaboration with far-right extremists, writes Robert Horvath.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.abc.net.au



I am not referring to far-right or left I am strictly referring to Nazis, Look up the definition of Nazis, and the fact that Russkies supported the Nazis to further their agenda whatever that may be do not justify Nazism, two wrongs does not make it right.

The west is arming Nazis in Ukraine because they are serving their interests there is an encyclopaedia on Ukrainian Nazis and wests double standards.

Below is just the tip of the iceberg.









Who gets NATO’s weapons in Ukraine?


The primary beneficiaries of these weapon deliveries, both politically and militarily, are far-right forces in Ukraine and internationally, who are being strengthened and emboldened.



www.wsws.org





Significant effort has gone into such propaganda, and it is clearly backed by the Ukrainian government, which is attempting to demonstrate that killing people is “cool” and “fun,” as the leader of the Neo-Nazi group C14 Yevhen Karas told his audience at a political seminar named after the Ukrainian Nazi-collaborator Stepan Bandera in early February. Karas has also bluntly stated that it is precisely because *neo-Nazis* like him love killing Russians that the *West supplies them with weapons.*

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## thetutle

alimobin memon said:


> Ok not taking sides but reality is,
> 
> Russia cant stop weapons coming into ukraine to be use against them
> 
> Russia hasnt achieved full air superiority
> 
> Why russia is using limited force then the one they project to whole world ?
> 
> But then,
> 
> If russian forces are so weak and losing and losing then its great opportunity for nato to intervene as ukraine alone according to their vigorous claim are beating hell out of russians. But nato is not intervening does it mean nato and ukraine is lying about russian losses ?
> 
> See most of russian weapons are useless according to ukraine and west then what is stopping them ?
> 
> Russia has no guts if nato enters ukraine and will use nuclear bombs in ukraine cause nuclear missiles are last resort or maybe not. But then again if russia uses nukes means they admit conventionally they are really weak 🤔


I think you are confusing yourself there. But dot worry, you will figure it out. 

Russia is stronger and is destroying and occupying the country slowly. NATO is supporting Ukraine and making russia pay an enormous price. Perhaps preventing russia from conquering Ukraine. 

NATO is scared a direct intervention will provoke a nuclear war. 

We would all like for NATO to intervene and bomb the Russians right out of there, but this cant be done because of Russian nukes. Its not that complicated a scenario.



jhungary said:


> I don't think Putin have any meaningful number of troop. In Kherson
> 
> Just simple math really. 200,000 troop in country, in 3 to 4 separate ingression. Even if we split them equally, you are looking at 50,000 troop each side (which I doubt they are doing them equally) and majority of troop in the southern Flank are undoubtedly be in MAriupol right now, which mean at most 10000 troop is left in Kherson, may be less.
> 
> 10000 troop against 100,000 population? With a threat of conventional force attack? Like the old saying goes, "I hope you bring enough bullet, son"


Oh come on. you think 100,000 civilians have any chance against 10,000 troops? or even 5,000 troops. Civilians have no chance. even a 1,000 troops could kill 100,000 civilians.

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507237295711211526
yet another bites the dust

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## NADIM

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507203468133642244


Mr.
If i beleave your all propaganda 100% right, then i have to bealeve that there is no war in Ukraine, only peace peace and 100% western Peace and Democracy all over Ukraine
because few days ago you told Russian 10000, 20000,40000 like this soldire die, so i alrady have to bealeave Russian Military already surrender to Ucraine.

So finally i tell you, if Israeli bomb in Gaza is good bomb, then Russian bomb in Ukraine must Good bomb.

so test your own peace and democracy.


----------



## alimobin memon

How can russia fight if so many generals are getting killed ? ... simple its full propaganda. If so many officers and generals had died then russia would have retreated by now.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506971906578305026


----------



## Avicenna

Enjoy!

An interesting take on things.

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## FairAndUnbiased

khansaheeb said:


> US had about 600K soldiers in Vietnam excluding the South Vietnamese forces. So your statement is a little bit out.
> Here are some interesting stats about Vietnam war:-
> 
> 
> https://post3legion.org/Vietnam_Statistics.pdf











Vietnam War - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Peak: 543,000 (April 1969)[16]:

US military 1969: 3.46 million. So 1/7 of total forces was in Vietnam.

Russian commitment is a bit higher relative to its total strength. 200k out of 900k is in Ukraine. That's 1/5.

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## 8888888888888

Oldman1 said:


> You kidding right?


Ukraine is mostly flat and it's winter, any recon drone can find where they are and call in troops.

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## thetutle

alimobin memon said:


> How can russia fight if so many generals are getting killed ? ... simple its full propaganda. If so many officers and generals had died then russia would have retreated by now.


As you can see its not fighting very effectively.



Avicenna said:


> Enjoy!
> 
> An interesting take on things.


This very clearly shows you the dangers of extended drug use.

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## WotTen

Avicenna said:


> Enjoy!
> 
> An interesting take on things.



The clearest sign that there is an agenda is when the 'freedom' loving countries ban opposing views by declaring them as 'disinformation'.

I can understand Ukraine banning Russian media, but why is Western Europe banning it? Why is Australia banning it? Of course, there is ample historical evidence for the hypocrisy of these 'free speech' governments.

For all its faults, the US remains the country that is truest to the ideals of free speech.

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## 8888888888888

thetutle said:


> there are other reasons why we aren't seeing any videos. they are probably classified.


Ukraine doesn't have any Intel restriction like the US forces, if javelin works they would have shown it as a good PR video.

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## Viet

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Vietnam War - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peak: 543,000 (April 1969)[16]:
> 
> US military 1969: 3.46 million. So 1/7 of total forces was in Vietnam.
> 
> Russian commitment is a bit higher relative to its total strength. 200k out of 900k is in Ukraine. That's 1/5.


But Russia is Ukraine neighbor while US is 13,000 km away from Vietnam (Saigon-Los Angeles).
Putin can quickly send in 500,000 more troops.
How he will win the war with 230,000 men?
Ukraine can mobilize over one million men.

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## Vergennes

Viet said:


> Putin can quickly send in 500,000 more troops.



And how exactly considering Russian ground force is less than 300k personnels ? (A good part of it conscripts).

lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507274864423546881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507146136422866954

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507086949022056457

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507132491479588870

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## Viet

Vergennes said:


> And how exactly considering Russian ground force is less than 300k personnels ? (A good part of it conscripts).
> 
> lmao
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507274864423546881
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507146136422866954


Putin can declare war and calls in the reserves. Germany considers the return of large standing army of 500,000 men.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Messerschmitt

bobo6661 said:


> yet another bites the dust

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## sammuel

WotTen said:


> The clearest sign that there is an agenda is when the 'freedom' loving countries ban opposing views by declaring them as 'disinformation'.
> 
> I can understand Ukraine banning Russian media, but why is Western Europe banning it? Why is Australia banning it? Of course, there is ample historical evidence for the hypocrisy of these 'free speech' governments.
> 
> For all its faults, the US remains the country that is truest to the ideals of free speech.




I guess you think you will get a better deal in Russia :


----------



## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Wow 2 years......That's actually quite generous. I will mark them off around 7-9 months, 1 year top if they squeeze every penny under the current economic situation. And that is if they have made some serious progress (again, like taking Mariupol) soon.
> 
> The issue here is resource wise, you are going to use double or triple of what you are going to use in battle, because training and equipping those troop would also take up resource, while guns and ammo or Personnel Protection equipment are easy, you can get it anywhere. (China, CAS or Belarus) but you don't just equip your soldier with guns and ammo and protection, which mean you need to somehow equip them with tank, artillery, infantry fighting vehicle and all the way going up to gunship and fighter aircraft, every lost have to be replaced, and you can only make a certain number every year, and I can tell you this, the Russia rate of losing their equipment is already over the rate they can replace for the entire year. And that is before their economy is being sanctioned.
> 
> The only logical and reasonable way is to repair the damage one and dip into the strategic stock (Funny thing, I read an article somewhere saying Lithuania offer Ukraine to repair some of their Captured Russian tank and put them back into service, free of charge). That is the only way to recover those losses. But then there is a limit for strategic reserve. Which mean they will run out. And that is why it is important to have an allied. If Ukrainian are able to fly F-16 or older F-15, US will probably offer them the one we have store in Davis Monthan Boneyard (that is why we have allied country come to the US to fly F-16 and F-15 with them)
> 
> On the other hand, Russian would not be able to dip into their strategic reserve indefinitely, so when that depleted (it will be depleted between 6 and 7 months with the current rate of loss) and that is the time either Russian allied help them and donate their strategic reserve to Russia or Russia would seriously having a hard time to project combat power.
> 
> So I would give them 7 to 9 months to 1 year top to do whatever they wanted to do in Ukraine, then they will need to talk about peace. Because there are no way they can sustain the war effort after that time limit.



This is if they will not switch to "eating grass" mode, NorKo style. My estimate is for mobilised military command economy.

They will certainly not be eating grass in 1 year, but the economy as a whole will be a writeoff, then they will start to scratch if to bet it all with total mobilisation.

I made corrections for the squeaky state of state of Russian material supply, but not for squeaky state of state apparatus.

Will the mafia state be able to provide the needed number of competent military economic administrators, given they never held civil defence drills for that like China does? Or it will only worsen off the rout, and embezzlement?

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## jhungary

K_Bin_W said:


> I am not referring to far-right or left I am strictly referring to Nazis, Look up the definition of Nazis, and the fact that Russkies supported the Nazis to further their agenda whatever that may be do not justify Nazism, two wrongs does not make it right.
> 
> The west is arming Nazis in Ukraine because they are serving their interests there is an encyclopaedia on Ukrainian Nazis and wests double standards.
> 
> Below is just the tip of the iceberg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who gets NATO’s weapons in Ukraine?
> 
> 
> The primary beneficiaries of these weapon deliveries, both politically and militarily, are far-right forces in Ukraine and internationally, who are being strengthened and emboldened.
> 
> 
> 
> www.wsws.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Significant effort has gone into such propaganda, and it is clearly backed by the Ukrainian government, which is attempting to demonstrate that killing people is “cool” and “fun,” as the leader of the Neo-Nazi group C14 Yevhen Karas told his audience at a political seminar named after the Ukrainian Nazi-collaborator Stepan Bandera in early February. Karas has also bluntly stated that it is precisely because *neo-Nazis* like him love killing Russians that the *West supplies them with weapons.*


lol, i love how you dodge my point on how Azov being Neo Nazi but still had a Jewish commander, it's like having a catholic priest as a Muslim Imam....

Anyway, My point were there, and anything I say is just going to repeating it. So I am wrapping up and moving on. I mean at the end of the day, you can say anything you want, Zelenskyy government is neo Nazi, or the west are being hypocrite. Like Zelensyy said, "if defending my country is neo nazi, then I guess we all are neo nazi" Set aside how funny is this when a jewish person having relative lost their live during the Holocaust, he was right, it changes nothing on the ground, would Ukrainian are gonna fight less hard because the Russian label them Neo Nazi? Or do you suggest that the Ukrainian will simply welcoming the Russian because the Russian said they are neo Nazi? Or the west will simply stopped supplying weapon to Ukraine to fuc k Russian over because people like you call them "Hypocrite"?

No, so at the end of the day, it does not really matter, so, well, you are free to think whatever you want, but since that would not change the ground calculus one bit, I have no interest in keep going on arguing with you.



Paul2 said:


> This is if they will not switch to "eating grass" mode, NorKo style. My estimate is for mobilised military command economy.
> 
> They will certainly not be eating grass in 1 year, but the economy as a whole will be a writeoff, then they will start to scratch if to bet it all with total mobilisation.
> 
> I made corrections for the squeaky state of state of Russian material supply, but not for squeaky state of state apparatus.
> 
> Will the mafia state be able to provide the needed number of competent military economic administrators, given they never held civil defence drills for that like China does? Or it will only worsen off the rout, and embezzlement?


Well, if they want to have a general mobilisation, they would need to do it now.

The problem is not whether or not hey will b eating grass, but whether will they come to the battlefield in donkey.

The Russian is already dipping into their strategic reserve of equipment, dusting out old tank that wasn't used in 20 or 30 years, and at this rate, they are going to dust out those T-34 from WW2 museum if they keep on the loss. And those stuff cannot be replace in a short run, which mean even if they can mobilise enough troop, it does not work if all they get is an Ak-47 and a few hundred rounds of ammo in the zone.

Soon, NATO, will provide Ukraine with excessive stock of just about everything, and from the rate it is going, the equipment are going to last longer with Ukraine than Russia, that is why they will get stuck in about 7 to 9 months, again 1 year if they watch their wallet.

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## NADIM

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507086949022056457
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507132491479588870


Mr.
If i beleave your all propaganda 100% right, then i have to bealeve that there is no war in Ukraine, only peace peace and 100% western Peace and Democracy all over Ukraine
because few days ago you told Russian 10000, 20000,40000 like this soldire die, so i alrady have to bealeave Russian Military already surrender to Ucraine.

So finally i tell you, if Israeli bomb in Gaza is good bomb, then Russian bomb in Ukraine must Good bomb.

so test your own peace and democracy.

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## PakAlp

Seems like Russian offensive is stalled.


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## thetutle

8888888888888 said:


> Ukraine doesn't have any Intel restriction like the US forces, if javelin works they would have shown it as a good PR video.


Oh, how do you know that? Javelin does not need PR. Its the only weapons system of its kind, a non wire guided fire and forget vertical attack. Most countries would not be abele to get one even if they wanted it because of export restrictions. 

I think there is no video of it because of the way its used. They dont want to reveal how they are using it or its full capabilities.


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## Vergennes

NADIM said:


> Mr.
> If i beleave your all propaganda 100% right, then i have to bealeve that there is no war in Ukraine, only peace peace and 100% western Peace and Democracy all over Ukraine
> because few days ago you told Russian 10000, 20000,40000 like this soldire die, so i alrady have to bealeave Russian Military already surrender to Ucraine.
> 
> So finally i tell you, if Israeli bomb in Gaza is good bomb, then Russian bomb in Ukraine must Good bomb.
> 
> so test your own peace and democracy.



Russian invasion has stalled it's a fact. And Russians themselves admitted close to 10K soldiers killed according to a pro Kremlin newspapers citing MoD figures before deleting it. If we apply a ratio of wounded to killed at 3 to 1,that's indeed close to 30-40K soldiers put out of action. (meaning killed,wounded,captured,missing...)

If situation wasn't so bad,they wouldn't need chechens,south ossetians,syrians.... and Belarussians... (who are still too reluctant to send in troops)

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## AlKardai

Vergennes said:


> Russian invasion has stalled it's a fact. And Russians themselves admitted close to 10K soldiers according to a pro Kremlin newspapers citing MoD figures before deleting it. If we apply a ratio of wounded to killed at 3 to 1,that's indeed close to 30-40K soldiers put out of action. (meaning killed,wounded,captured,missing...)
> 
> If situation wasn't so bad,they wouldn't need chechens,south ossetians,syrians.... and Belarussians... (who are still too reluctant to send in troops)



The situation is almost definitely a lot worse for the Ukrainians.
Ukraine is calling for aid from anyone that cares to listen. People living in the UK and ex-veterans are being payed 1 and a half thousand British pounds a day for fighting in Ukraine
Obviously the war is going worse for the Ukrainians as it seems.


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## Paul2

PakFactor said:


> What John Mearsheimer said is fact and on the dot (note: he was also in the US Armed Forces and West Point Graduate I would give him more credence than some others on this forum trying to project another angle). The media is doing a legit half *** job not giving a broader picture of the causes that led to this conflict. But I’m not surprised majority of common western folks are born idiots just look at one of the comments in the comment section of that twitter post after being presented with proofs he comes out saying, Putin had no reason, non sense.
> 
> @Meengla



Explanation being simple, Russia being Russia, and wanting their land, as it did over centuries?

Russia been in the state of a mafia state for the last 20 years. If it isn't 20 years of mafia state influencing the national decision making, then what else really can?

To me it looks very obvious: Putin & Co. look at Ukraine and see a very weak state with

Huge wheat, and other grain exports
Military equipment exports
Machinery
Metallurgy
Gateway for drug shipment to Europe
40 million people to tax
Rail access
Conscripts (slaves)
You can continue. Ukraine was basically an ideal victim.

He is not Genghis Khan, or Alexander. To me he reminds of a petty corporate takeover artist — types you see in abundance in the West, except they don't have armies, and nukes, and of course they flee the moment things stop going according to the plain.

I remember a cadre called Loudon Owen, who tried to seize Hanfeng Evergreen, and whom I had misfortune to cross in Canada.

He was a small time racketeer lawyer doing corporate shakedowns for activist investors.

And in one of his racketeering attacks, he bit more than he can chew.

Naive Chinese businessmen who were too lazy to Google his name, and read basics of Canadian corporate law appointed him as a silent chairman of Hanfeng Evergreen. Few years later it was found that he likely gave kickbacks to people who recommended, and voted him.

He dug up few minor accounting, and corporate governance inconsistencies, and went to Chinese owners threatening to "nuke them, and make them a second Enron" if they don't give him more stock. So, they gave him it. With few percents of the company, he had now a legal right, and more clout with other investors to go after the business.

He broke his promise, and disclosed these inconsistencies, and made a big drama about them. Then he positioned himself as a protector of small investors against "scary Chinese mafia," and took moneys of a number of naive investors to mount legal assault on the company... They never seen their investments, nor legal fund money again.

Chinese owners panicked, and fled to China, further legitimising Owen's claim that there is something fishy happening. At that time, it it was really nothing serious by Canadian legal standards.

The company was not able to pay its tiny debts simply because there been nobody to sign on their cheques, as the board was defunct. It was then when Chinese banks started investigating what was going on, and Owen happened to be in China at the moment, trying to arrest, and seize the fertilizes factory for himself. ICBC quickly figured out what was his trick, and turned the tables by successfully proving in court that the guy who is preventing the debt repayment is Owen himself.

I don't know what has happened next, but I read that guy returned to Canada, and been completely broke for few years, running from Hanfeng minority investors himself.

He didn't get a single dollar from a company, but out of spite, he went and f**ked up all other investors. He sued the shell of the company in Canada, of which he himself was a chairman, and naturally he got a default judgement, making the shell defunct, eliminating any chance for other minority investors to recover their money. It was a complete "If I can't have it, you can't either" move.

Just now I googled him, and it appears he spins himself as a "Crypto Venture Capitalist," trying to scam somebody again.

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## bobo6661

NADIM said:


> if Israel have right to bomb Gaza, then Russia have right to use Nuclear bomb in Ukraine


then the rest nuke powers have the right to nuke others to, guess gaza will go puff first, guess india could nuke bangladesh back to their territory, be carfull what you want to normalize

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> lol, i love how you dodge my point on how Azov being Neo Nazi but still had a Jewish commander, it's like having a catholic priest as a Muslim Imam....
> 
> Anyway, My point were there, and anything I say is just going to repeating it. So I am wrapping up and moving on. I mean at the end of the day, you can say anything you want, Zelenskyy government is neo Nazi, or the west are being hypocrite. Like Zelensyy said, "if depending my country is neo nazi, then I guess we all are neo nazi" Set aside how funny is this when a jewish person having relative lost their live during the Holocaust, he was right, it changes nothing on the ground, would Ukrainian are gonna fight less hard because the Russian label them Neo Nazi? Or do you suggest that the Ukrainian will simply welcoming the Russian because the Russian said they are neo Nazi? Or the west will simply stopped supplying weapon to Ukraine to fuc k Russian over because people like you call them "Hypocrite"?
> 
> No, so at the end of the day, it does not really matter, so, well, you are free to think whatever you want, but since that would not change the ground calculus one bit, I have no interest in keep going on arguing with you.
> 
> 
> Well, if they want to have a general mobilisation, they would need to do it now.
> 
> The problem is not whether or not hey will b eating grass, but whether will they come to the battlefield in donkey.
> 
> The Russian is already dipping into their strategic reserve of equipment, dusting out old tank that wasn't used in 20 or 30 years, and at this rate, they are going to dust out those T-34 from WW2 museum if they keep on the loss. And those stuff cannot be replace in a short run, which mean even if they can mobilise enough troop, it does not work if all they get is an Ak-47 and a few hundred rounds of ammo in the zone.
> 
> Soon, NATO, will provide Ukraine with excessive stock of just about everything, and from the rate it is going, the equipment are going to last longer with Ukraine than Russia, that is why they will get stuck in about 7 to 9 months, again 1 year if they watch their wallet.


What if russia mobilised like 5 or 10 million men. Sent them to the front, gave them each an AK. and 6 mags and a weeks worth of food. And had like a 400km wide advance. Just sweep the countryside. Would that work? are there even 5 milion weapons in the country? are there 900 million bullets available for this conscripted army?


----------



## jhungary

WotTen said:


> The clearest sign that there is an agenda is when the 'freedom' loving countries ban opposing views by declaring them as 'disinformation'.
> 
> I can understand Ukraine banning Russian media, but why is Western Europe banning it? Why is Australia banning it? Of course, there is ample historical evidence for the hypocrisy of these 'free speech' governments.
> 
> For all its faults, the US remains the country that is truest to the ideals of free speech.


US Never banned RT. RT folded its operation in US because RT US depends a lot in production office in Europe, which was banned, which mean they are not going to maintain regular programming in the US without any content. 

Its like how or why Neighbour folded after UK (I want to say ITV, I am not sure) drop its right, most TV production uses overseas material, once that was gone, you ceased to be able to operate.

ON the other hand, who cares about RT when you can still watch CCTV or CGTV in Australia??



thetutle said:


> What if russia mobilised like 5 or 10 million men. Sent them to the front, gave them each an AK. and 6 mags and a weeks worth of food. And had like a 400km wide advance. Just sweep the countryside. Would that work? are there even 5 milion weapons in the country? are there 900 million bullets available for this conscripted army?


First of all, I would HATED to be the logistic guy to supply 5 millions troop on a frontline, that is an a$$ job.

Secondly, how are you going to supply them? 6 mag = 210 rounds, it will last them maybe 10 hours? If they did not wasted them, which they will eventually do, as you are talking about conscript. And then how are you going to bring 500 millions round of ammo to the front and then effectively distribute them? And that is just for 1 resupply load....

If we are looking at that 40 miles convoy, this is not going to brood well with the logistic system they had in place if they have to do it twice a day..

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507308975208947736
It seems most of Irpin in the vincinity of Kyiv was cleared of russian terrorists


----------



## thetutle

Exclusive: Russia Backs Europe’s Far Right


Emails and documents show just how closely Italian, French, German and Austrian politicians coordinate with Moscow




newlinesmag.com





For those clueless muslims who think russia is their friend. Look how is funding the far right anti muslim groups in europe. Russia of course.



jhungary said:


> First of all, I would HATED to be the logistic guy to supply 5 millions troop on a frontline, that is an a$$ job.
> 
> Secondly, how are you going to supply them? 6 mag = 210 rounds, it will last them maybe 10 hours? If they did not wasted them, which they will eventually do, as you are talking about conscript. And then how are you going to bring 500 millions round of ammo to the front and then effectively distribute them? And that is just for 1 resupply load....
> 
> If we are looking at that 40 miles convoy, this is not going to brood well with the logistic system they had in place if they have to do it twice a day..


It was done in WW2. and it seems to have worked.


----------



## mmr

NADIM said:


> I
> 
> if Israel have right to bomb Gaza, then Russia have right to use Nuclear bomb in Ukraine


Are you that dumb? What will Bangladesh do if India nuke?

Stop crocodile tears for gaza. At lease west is united and doing there best to help Ukraine. What did Arabs and Muslim did to help Gaza ppl?

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## Trango Towers

mmr said:


> Are you that dumb? What will Bangladesh do if India nuke?
> 
> Stop crocodile tears for gaza. At lease west is united and doing there best to help Ukraine. What did Arabs and Muslim did to help Gaza ppl?


You are correct re Arab Muslim help. But I think he is referring to western double standards


----------



## mmr

Trango Towers said:


> You are correct re Arab Muslim help. But I think he is referring to western double standards


Yes west is not perfect. But at least they are united. You attack one and see what happen

ppl here saying why nato and west not helping much. well if arabs and muslims help Palestine the way west is helping Ukraine Israel wont bully non stop.

this bangla dude crying for gaza. Did u see what bangla govt say about kashmir? Bd keep sucking india's ****. why not proptest against genocide in kashmir?

any way off topic. back to war updates.


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## Schutz

NADIM said:


> I
> 
> if Israel have right to bomb Gaza, then Russia have right to use Nuclear bomb in Ukraine


Lol what, Gaza and the death toll the last decade there is like a day in Ukraine. Not a fan of Israel and of course the ummah is more important but don't draw stupid conclusions. Because one side bombs another, then two completely different countries are allowed to Nuke each other!


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## Wood




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## Broccoli

At least this war should be a wake up call for all Russia fanboys who think it's a some kinda superpower... or even a great power. Britain and France took a long time to accept that they aren't colonial superpowers anymore, but eventually most of them accepted the reality, Russians haven't yet gotten over the fact that empire is gone as has it's superpower status, and i'm sure this is a wake up call for them like Suez was for Britain & France. 

Average citizens over the globe might have believed before this war that Russia is a superpower what could roll trought Europe with ease but that propaganda won't work anymore.

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## Trango Towers

mmr said:


> Yes west is not perfect. But at least they are united. You attack one and see what happen
> 
> ppl here saying why nato and west not helping much. well if arabs and muslims help Palestine the way west is helping Ukraine Israel wont bully non stop.
> 
> this bangla dude crying for gaza. Did u see what bangla govt say about kashmir? Bd keep sucking india's cock. why not proptest against genocide in kashmir?
> 
> any way off topic. back to war updates.


I agree. The west are united. 
They always have been. Remember the crusades. Sadly Muslims even then were divided.

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## Wood

Broccoli said:


> At least this war should be a wake up call for all Russia fanboys who think it's a some kinda superpower... or even a great power. Britain and France took a long time to accept that they aren't colonial superpowers anymore, but eventually most of them accepted the reality, Russians haven't yet gotten over the fact that empire is gone as has it's superpower status, and i'm sure this is a wake up call for them like Suez was for Britain & France.
> 
> Average citizens over the globe might have believed before this war that Russia is a superpower what could roll trought Europe with ease but that propaganda won't work anymore.


In your opinion, what are the chances for Finland to join NATO?


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## bobo6661

Get ready for ‘hell,’ UN food chief warns amid Ukraine shockwaves


World Food Programme flags famine risk in Africa and the Middle East as Ukraine war hits supplies.




www.politico.eu

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507319082806300682
Russian losses now well over 1800


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507252750882590779

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## xuxu1457



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## jhungary

AlbastiLeGrand said:


> The situation is almost definitely a lot worse for the Ukrainians.
> Ukraine is calling for aid from anyone that cares to listen. People living in the UK and ex-veterans are being payed 1 and a half thousand British pounds a day for fighting in Ukraine
> Obviously the war is going worse for the Ukrainians as it seems.


That's a rumor.

I personally have one of those form a friend send me for the International Legion, you pay 340 hryvnia a days like every other Ukrainian soldier. You don't get pay 1500 pound a day to fight in Ukraine. I can send it to you if you wanted.

Also, 16,000 foreign fighter are nothing compare to the standing army of 240,000 Ukrainian and about 900,000 reservist. It's not going to change the situation with that 16,000 foreign fighter.

I don't know if anyone is offering bozo 1500 pound to fight in Ukraine for a day, I mean, I don't know all the bozo in the world, but Ukrainian are not paying foreigner 1500 pounds a day to fight in Ukraine.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507228599799230495

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## Wood

jhungary said:


> Also, 16,000 foreign fighter are nothing compare to the standing army of 240,000 Ukrainian and about *900,000 reservist*. It's not going to change the situation with that 16,000 foreign fighter.


Will these reservists be any good for actual fighting? I don't know if they are a real para military force


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## SuvarnaTeja

Wood said:


> In your opinion, what are the chances for Finland to join NATO?



100%

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507286068512571393

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## SuvarnaTeja

Wood said:


> Will these reservists be any good for actual fighting? I don't know if they are a real para military force



In modern warfare where high tech equipment is being used, physical fitness is not that critical.

At worst they will work as eyes on the ground.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507256642802438171

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Exclusive: Russia Backs Europe’s Far Right
> 
> 
> Emails and documents show just how closely Italian, French, German and Austrian politicians coordinate with Moscow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> newlinesmag.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those clueless muslims who think russia is their friend. Look how is funding the far right anti muslim groups in europe. Russia of course.
> 
> 
> It was done in WW2. and it seems to have worked.


First of all, Soviet counter offensive is not just 5 millions dude with mosin-nagant fighting back the German war machine, it's a combine force of Artillery, Tanks, Fighters and other material command. Smaller conscript level also worked in localised combat, but then you are talking about localised combat and it's Soviet Union manpower, not Russian manpower

If you try this 5 millions conscript rifle run now, you will get cut to pieces by modern weapon. I mean, unless you are living in a cave. Combat Power have improved *A WHOLE LOT *since WW2. 

Another issue is Soviet Doctrine of logistic, the dependence of Railway support means there aren't any means to effectively support that many amount of troop in theatre, again, just look at the situation now, you are talking about a war effort for 200,000 or so troop, and they made a big mess out of it, I would love to see what can they do for 5 millions troop in theatre.....

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507287020275748864

Another Russian General killed

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## jhungary

Wood said:


> Will these reservists be any good for actual fighting? I don't know if they are a real para military force


They are like any other reservist, they are what we so called in-and-out of the program. Which mean they are required to do service time once in a while, and then that responsibility is release.

They are trained in fighting, in fact, most of the reservist were the one that were deployed to Donbas and relieved for duty from regular rotation. They are more or less the same as regular troop, you just need some time to train them and equip them.

There are 3 type of Army Reservist in Ukraine. 

Type 1 is the Reservist with 60 days training over 2 years, Type 2 is Reservist with 30 days training over 2 years and that made up the bulk of Current Reserve Force, there are a type 3, mobilisation reserve, that's basically everyone who can be drafted, will be drafted.

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## Ich



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## Wood

jhungary said:


> They are like any other reservist, they are what we so called in-and-out of the program. Which mean they are required to do service time once in a while, and then that responsibility is release.
> 
> They are trained in fighting, in fact, most of the reservist were the one that were deployed to Donbas and relieved for duty from regular rotation. They are more or less the same as regular troop, you just need some time to train them and equip them.
> 
> There are 3 type of Army Reservist in Ukraine.
> 
> Type 1 is the Reservist with 60 days training over 2 years, Type 2 is Reservist with 30 days training over 2 years and that made up the bulk of Current Reserve Force, there are a type 3, mobilisation reserve, that's basically everyone who can be drafted, will be drafted.


Oh, then Ukraine has enough people who know how to use weapons. Even if they loose a lot more people compared to Russians, Ukraine will have enough time to train civilians into useful fighting force


----------



## jhungary

Wood said:


> Oh, then Ukraine has enough people who know how to use weapons. Even if they loose a lot more people compared to Russians, Ukraine will have enough time to train civilians into useful fighting force


Most people here don't understand is, most of the what they called "Operational Reserve" (Type 1 and 2 I mentioned) is the same people who serve their tour in Donbas and is in the process of getting out of the Military, what basically happened is soldier from 53d, 54th, 92d, 93d and 55th Brigade (Approximately 50,000 troop) who serve 1 year in Donbas, then you rotate out of the area and got listed in the reserve to conserve the combat power, then you get demob. 

A large amount of Ukrainian Reservist or Civilian have actual combat experience from the 8 years of War in Donbas....

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507332308843601923


Putin has lost it. He’s essentially taking out all of his personal grievances on the Ukrainian people. It’s sickening

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507332308843601923
> 
> 
> Putin has lost it. He’s essentially taking out all of his personal grievances on the Ukrainian people. It’s sickening


That's funny, considering he cancelled the entire population of Ukraine by cancelling their identity.......

And then he go and talk about cancel culture.......

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## Broccoli

Viet said:


> Russia produces 11 million barrels oil per day. Putin gives 3 million barrels to the army, the rest is used domestically or sold to foreigners.
> So the invasion army should have oil.
> 
> The problem is logistics.
> 
> They never imagine to have a war of attrition.
> Russia is finished.





Wood said:


> In your opinion, what are the chances for Finland to join NATO?



Before this conflict NATO's support was around 23-28% but now it's over 60%. Only matter of time I think.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507342380328001544

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## NADIM

mmr said:


> Are you that dumb? What will Bangladesh do if India nuke?
> 
> Stop crocodile tears for gaza. At lease west is united and doing there best to help Ukraine. What did Arabs and Muslim did to help Gaza ppl?


Muslim never afraid of death.That day will come very soon when Muslim rule your country, don't worry. That day must come.

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> Putin has lost it. He’s essentially taking out all of his personal grievances on the Ukrainian people. It’s sickening


He has not lost anything.

He is courting Trump fans. This is exactly the type of thing that Tucker Carlson will use in his talk show to tell gullible American boomers that Putin is a good man

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507348105792000003

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507348127531024387

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

Any news on Mariupol?


----------



## SIPRA

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Any news on Mariupol?



It seems that Russian assault has been stalled, at least, for the time being.


----------



## coffee_cup

LOL, WTH !!! 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507206544173068290

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## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

SIPRA said:


> It seems that Russian assault has been stalled, at least, for the time being.



Acccording to the News Mariupol is almost taken and Azov remains in approx one area

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## Kraetoz

Ich said:


> View attachment 827199


Indians have realized that US just wants to use India to fight China. They saw how the US is only helping Ukraine with words and weapons, which isn't good enough for Indians if they fight China at behest of US.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507347439396827143

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## alimobin memon

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Acccording to the News Mariupol is almost taken and Azov remains in approx one area


Sorry for my english but almost taken by whom ?


----------



## Qutb-ud-din-Aibak

alimobin memon said:


> Sorry for my english but almost taken by whom ?



Darth Vader and his storm-troopers

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## Viet

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Any news on Mariupol?


Mariupol still there. The Russians can’t take it. Bravo to the men of Azov regiment. They seem like the WaffenSS. They will not surrender. Big respect.

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## Ich

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Darth Vader and his storm-troopers

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507288598059618305
Someone has sugar problems

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## Wood

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507288598059618305
> Someone has sugar problems


Russian people will surely experience lower purchasing power than they are used to because of these sanctions. But these grocery issues that we see online are likely to be fleeting in nature. Food scarcity will not be a real impact of sanctions.


----------



## Vergennes

Russia has no problems,sanctions are useless,it's all western propaganda.

Meanwhile in the mordor ;



bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507288598059618305
> Someone has sugar problems

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## Foinikas

kingQamaR said:


> The Russian trolls are practically speechless on this. Lol
> 
> LOOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS - WW2 saying" ...


Wow,docked landing ships hit. The Russian Black Sea Fleet has been destroyed. Now the way to Moscow is open. Well done.

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## Meengla

PakFactor said:


> What John Mearsheimer said is fact and on the dot (note: he was also in the US Armed Forces and West Point Graduate I would give him more credence than some others on this forum trying to project another angle).  The media is doing a legit half *** job not giving a broader picture of the causes that led to this conflict. But I’m not surprised majority of common western folks are born idiots just look at one of the comments in the comment section of that twitter post after being presented with proofs he comes out saying, Putin had no reason, non sense.
> 
> @Meengla



I agree with you. Also watch Colonel Macgregor videos. He is a straight talking US retired military professional who even was involved during the Afghan withdrawal decisions in the White House.
But the world is 'Might is Right' and there are 'exceptions' and 'exceptionalism'. And as long as humanity doesn't adhere to consistently fair behavior, there will be wars and even another global war. There will be more illegal invasions like that going on, just as it was against Iraq. 
*For Pakistanis, I keep saying: We have no dog in this fight! Either a weakened or a stronger Russia doesn't affect Pakistan too much. The gains or losses for Pakistan are indirect through the gains or losses for Pakistan's key ally China. *
We should pray for the end of the bloodshed and hope some kind of face-saving is given to Putin and let the world wait out Putin's departure--he's already around 70. Time would have and will sort Russia out.

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## bobo6661

Wood said:


> Russian people will surely experience lower purchasing power than they are used to because of these sanctions. But these grocery issues that we see online are likely to be fleeting in nature. Food scarcity will not be a real impact of sanctions.


I mean that for shure its just problem with logistic borders closed, but it takes time to fix it, maybe a quicker push for peace

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## Meengla

Broccoli said:


> At least this war should be a wake up call for all Russia fanboys who think it's a some kinda superpower... or even a great power. Britain and France took a long time to accept that they aren't colonial superpowers anymore, but eventually most of them accepted the reality, Russians haven't yet gotten over the fact that empire is gone as has it's superpower status, and i'm sure this is a wake up call for them like Suez was for Britain & France.
> 
> Average citizens over the globe might have believed before this war that Russia is a superpower what could roll trought Europe with ease but that propaganda won't work anymore.



You being from Finland may want to watch this, if not already seen this video. Then, as now, Russians threw their soldiers cannon fodders. By the way, great Mark Felton's channel is great!

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## DF41

China says ‘everyone knows’ who is most to blame for Ukraine war

https://www.rt.com/news/552653-china-us-ukraine-role/



China says ‘everyone knows’ who is most to blame for Ukraine war​A spokesman for China’s Defense Ministry said the US is ‘slinging mud’ at Beijing over the Ukraine war





© Getty Images / ffikretow
The Chinese Ministry of Defense has called the US “_a liar and troublemaker_” and said that “_everyone knows_” which country was “_the biggest initiator_” of the Ukraine crisis.
Ministry spokesperson Wu Qian on Thursday commented on accusations from unnamed US officials that Beijing knew in advance about Russia’s attack on Ukraine and that China had even asked Moscow to delay it until after the Beijing 2022 Winter Olympics.
Wu condemned the claims, along with reports about China allegedly offering military assistance to Russia, saying there was “_absolute disinformation_” which only serves the purposes of “_shifting blame to and slinging mud at China._”
The accusations show “_the true face of the US as a liar and trouble maker_,” he said, adding that his country firmly opposes attempts by the US to spread “_false and malicious information targeting China on the Ukraine issue._”


*READ MORE: *NATO issues warning to China
The ministry spokesperson stressed that the Ukraine war had resulted from various reasons and within a “_complex historical context,_” but added that “_we all understand which big power bears the biggest responsibility for today’s crisis,_” in an apparent jibe at Washington.
Wu said Beijing wants “_all parties_” to “_keep the door open for dialogue, consultation and negotiation to de-escalate_” the situation in Ukraine and that China will play a “_constructive role in seeking and realizing peace._”
He called for a “_a balanced, effective and sustainable European security architecture_” and pointed out that since the founding of the People's Republic of China, the country has “_never invaded other countries, never engaged in proxy wars, never sought spheres of influence, nor participated in any military bloc confrontation._”
Wu Qian’s remarks came on the same day Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said that Ukraine, along with EU countries, had turned into “_instruments_” of the United States.
Russia attacked Ukraine in late February, following a seven-year standoff over Kiev’s failure to implement the terms of the Minsk agreements and Russia’s recognition of the Donbass republics with capitals in Donetsk and Lugansk. The German- and French-brokered protocols had been designed to regularize the status of those regions within the Ukrainian state.
Russia has demanded that Ukraine officially declare itself a neutral country that will never join the US-led NATO military bloc. Kiev insists the Russian offensive was completely unprovoked, denying claims it was planning to retake the Donbass republics by force.
Since the Russian offensive began, the US, along with its international partners, imposed a slew of unprecedented sanctions against Moscow.

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## dBSPL

It could be the only foreign navy ship to cross the strait in recent weeks.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507358978405240833

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## DF41

Qutb-ud-din-Aibak said:


> Acccording to the News Mariupol is almost taken and Azov remains in approx one area




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507048720491241482


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507335297406746625
Erdogan: Putin and Zelensky agreed on 4 of 6 items.








Son dakika: Başkan Erdoğan'dan NATO Zirvesi dönüşünde çok net S-400 yanıtı: Bunların bütün işi ortalığı karıştırmak...


Son dakika haberine göre; Başkan Recep Tayyip Erdoğan NATO Liderler Zirvesi'nin ardından yurda dönerken uçakta gazetecilerin sorularını yanıtladı. Başkan Erdoğan, Rusya-Ukrayna krizinin, 'Türkiye'nin vazgeçilmez bir müttefik' olduğunu gözler önüne serdiğini ifade etti. Erdoğan, Putin ve...




www.sabah.com.tr




(I guess the 2 things that are not clear are the recognition of the annexation of Crimea and the recognition of the independence of the DPR/LPR. It seems that there is agreement on other items.)

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## sammuel

thetutle said:


> Oh, how do you know that? Javelin does not need PR. Its the only weapons system of its kind, a non wire guided fire and forget vertical attack. Most countries would not be abele to get one even if they wanted it because of export restrictions



*Spike* is an Israeli fire-and-forget anti-tank guided missile and anti-personnel missile with a tandem-charge HEAT warhead, currently in its fourth generation.









Spike (missile) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org



















Why Israel's Spike Anti-Tank Missile Out-Ranks the Javelin


The Spike missile series is a testament to the ability of the Israeli defense complex to produce novel solutions to diverse threats.




nationalinterest.org





~


----------



## SIPRA

Kraetoz said:


> Indians have realized that US just wants to use India to fight China. They saw how the US is only helping Ukraine with words and weapons, which isn't good enough for Indians if they fight China at behest of US.



Indians know this thing, since 1949, when CPC took over China.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Russia has no problems,sanctions are useless,it's all western propaganda.
> 
> Meanwhile in the mordor ;




A program to help the poor in Russia shouldn't be mocked. It happens all countries. It is one thing to oppose Russia's invasion of Ukraine, but it is another level if you mock the poor and a govt-led program to help them out in Russia.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507287020275748864
> 
> Another Russian General killed



Proof needed


----------



## jhungary

Some unusual Open Source Intel come thru my email just now.

Apparently, since the Russian blocking YT, Facebook, Instagram and Google and heavily censor the internet, the way to announce captured Russian soldier so their Russian family know about them being capture so the family don't need to worry. Apparently Russia do not even bother to do capture/casualty report to family anymore.

And the new way to do it is by open an account on DeviantArt account and post Capture Russian soldier there.....









YourSonIsAlive User Profile | DeviantArt


Check out YourSonIsAlive's art on DeviantArt. Browse the user profile and get inspired.




www.deviantart.com





For those who don't know DeviantArt is mostly comic, cartoon and pop culture related website, they are usually (but not all) 18+ so it is NSFW. A lot of Russian have DeviantArt account, because Comic and Cosplay is something quite popular in Russia.....


----------



## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> A program to help the poor in Russia shouldn't be mocked. It happens all countries. It is one thing to oppose Russia's invasion of Ukraine, but it is another level if you mock the poor and a govt-led program to help them out in Russia.


Nice one if they didnt stand there with cash in their hands


----------



## Kraetoz

SIPRA said:


> Indians know this thing, since 1949, when CPC took over China.


More so now when they have witnessed that the only help they will ever get from US if they are in war with China would be continuous supply of helmets. Indians know they can't stop chinese cruise missiles with US made helmets.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507286068512571393



No "Z" or "V" signs. It is basically one of those bogus Ukrainian propaganda.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507332308843601923
> 
> 
> Putin has lost it. He’s essentially taking out all of his personal grievances on the Ukrainian people. It’s sickening




Bedtime stories


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal




----------



## sammuel

*Hassan Al-Somal:*


> A program to help the poor in Russia shouldn't be mocked. It happens all countries. It is one thing to oppose Russia's invasion of Ukraine, but it is another level if you mock the poor and a govt-led program to help them out in Russia




Ohhhh yes the great humanitarian has spoken . That is the same person that just wished a country of 40 million people to be wiped to the ground :





> Such an evil people. May Russia destroy the whole Ukrain to the ground. What is wrong with these people? It is like humanity escaped them.








Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Bedtime stories



Clip on that page :










JK Rowling cited by Vladimir Putin as he accuses the West of 'trying to cancel' Russia


"Today they are trying to cancel a whole thousand-year culture - our people," Mr Putin says, adding: "They are banning Russian writers and books."




news.sky.com





~


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

bobo6661 said:


> Nice one if they didnt stand there with cash in their hands



People can still buy subsidized food with their cash. I still don't understand how mocking the poor is justified in this context. You can focus on Putin and Russian military's involvement in Ukrain, but mocking poor old men and women? That is pretty darn another level. Fix up.



sammuel said:


> Ohhhh yes the great humanitarian has spoken . That is the same person that just wished a country of 40 million people to be wiped to the ground :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Clip on that page
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JK Rowling cited by Vladimir Putin as he accuses the West of 'trying to cancel' Russia
> 
> 
> "Today they are trying to cancel a whole thousand-year culture - our people," Mr Putin says, adding: "They are banning Russian writers and books."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.sky.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~




*A supporter of the usurper, squatting, and child-killing state of IsraHell has the audacity to speak here*. The expiry date of the usurper and the heartless entity of IsraHell is very near, and we're getting closer to the day that every rock and tree would speak except the Al-Gharghad tree; but darn too late since people already know that tree that you're planting in your illegal settlements in the Holy Land. There will never be Zion between Euphrates and the Nile. That is a divine promise that will be fulfilled.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507376320392663042

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507377462673608707

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> People can still buy subsidized food with their cash. I still don't understand how mocking the poor is justified in this context. You can focus on Putin and Russian military's involvement in Ukrain, but mocking poor old men and women? That is pretty darn another level. Fix up.



Ohhh yes , the great humanitarian strikes again ! 

This is from the same person that just wished a country of 40 million people to be wiped to the ground :



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Such an evil people. May Russia destroy the whole Ukrain to the ground. What is wrong with these people? It is like humanity escaped them.



~

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## Vergennes

LMAO 

"The Russian military said on Friday it would now focus on the 'liberation' of eastern Ukraine, saying it had achieved the initial goals of the military operation it has been carrying out there since February 24. . "The combat capabilities of the Ukrainian forces have been significantly reduced, which allows (...) to concentrate the bulk of the efforts on the main objective: the liberation of Donbass", in eastern Ukraine, said Deputy Chief of the Russian General Staff Sergei Rudskoy."

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507379793762959368

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507103735067164680

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> LMAO
> 
> "The Russian military said on Friday it would now focus on the 'liberation' of eastern Ukraine, saying it had achieved the initial goals of the military operation it has been carrying out there since February 24. . "The combat capabilities of the Ukrainian forces have been significantly reduced, which allows (...) to concentrate the bulk of the efforts on the main objective: the liberation of Donbass", in eastern Ukraine, said Deputy Chief of the Russian General Staff Sergei Rudskoy."




Russia massively moving those goalposts.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

sammuel said:


> Ohhh yes , the great humanitarian strikes again !
> 
> This is from the same person that just wished a country of 40 million people to be wiped to the ground :
> 
> 
> 
> ~



You should post the Twitter message that I posted, which was showing Ukrainians abusing African, Asian, and Middle Eastern students. Ah, but being a squatter, it is in your specialty to misinform readers.

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## jhungary

So the Russian Tradition on Occupied Soil begin.......

*Two Russian soldiers ‘raped Ukrainian woman in front of her kid after killing her husband’ in Putin’s horrific invasion*









Russian soldiers 'raped Ukrainian woman in front of child after killing dad'


TWO evil Russian soldiers allegedly raped a Ukrainian woman in front of her kid after killing her husband, Ukraine’s top prosecutor said. Prosecutor general Iryna Venediktova said one of the …




www.thesun.co.uk


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Shots of destruction of firing positions of towed artillery guns of the Armed Forces of Ukraine





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1352905458521906

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## Meengla

dBSPL said:


> (I guess the 2 things that are not clear are the recognition of the annexation of Crimea and the recognition of the independence of the DPR/LPR. It seems that there is agreement on other items.)



No Ukraine leader would ever agree to those demands. They need to find some face saving way for Russia and end the war.

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## khansaheeb

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia massively moving those goalposts.


It's their game so they can do it.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507367043779096576
Biden with the 82nd in Poland


----------



## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You should post the Twitter message that I posted, which was showing Ukrainians abusing African, Asian, and Middle Eastern students. Ah, but being a squatter, it is in your specialty to misinform readers.



Thanks for the explanation. So in your mind this justifies destroying all of Ukraine to the ground.

Or in your own words :



> May Russia destroy the whole Ukrain to the ground.




So far only Mariupol was destroyed . I wonder is that enough for you ?

Or to have your wish fulfilled , we need to see more cities destroyed ? Cause some idiots where " abusing African "


----------



## Wood

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507103735067164680


What about the rumour here that Mariupol has fallen?


----------



## SuvarnaTeja

Wood said:


> What about the rumour here that Mariupol has fallen?



Mariupol is dead.

It is now immaterial if it has fallen to whom.

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## Wood

Spoiler: Vice News - How Kharkiv Is Resisting Russia’s Invasion


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507103735067164680





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507318303345283073
"I am proud that the Motherland entrusted such a unique complex" 

Footage of the crews of the Iskander operational-tactical missile system during a strike with precision weapons at the training base for foreign mercenaries of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507263514955632645

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507275250505027589
More high end trucks on its way

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507361902585946114
///

After the French media remembered the Turkish-French alliance of the 16th century, the Italian media began to remember the strong cooperation and historical relations dating back to the 14th century.




__





Turchia e Italia, nel 2021, hanno stabilito un nuovo record nonostante la pandemia. Intervista con l’Ambasciatore Ömer Gücük


“Turchia e Italia, due paesi mediterranei amici e alleati, sono due potenze regionali con forti legami di cooperazione e relazioni storiche risalenti al XIV secolo. Un denominatore comune e una stretta cooperazione su questioni regionali e globali hanno portato le relazioni




www.etribuna.com




Recently, the articles about Turkey in the European press have started to meet my daily need for humor.

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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You should post the Twitter message that I posted, which was showing Ukrainians abusing African, Asian, and Middle Eastern students. Ah, but being a squatter, it is in your specialty to misinform readers.


Ive seen Arabs abuse Indians, africans and others. Should we give their land to Israel because of it?

Or actually, before Israel was formed there was some Palestinian imam (grand mufti of Jerusalem) that was good friends with hitler. He was a nazi. So Israel according to you is just de-nazifying that land? Just like Russia now.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Wood said:


>











Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry



*The grouping of troops of the Russian Armed Forces advanced another 4 kilometers overnight and captured Batmanka, Mikhailovka, Krasny Partizan, Stavki and Troitskoe. Currently developing an offensive against units of the 25th Airborne Brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.*




In the evening of March 24, Kalibr high-precision sea-based cruise missiles struck a fuel base in Kalinovka near Kiev. T*he largest remaining fuel base of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was destroyed. This base supplied military units in the central part of the country with fuel.*







*The group of "Night Hunters" consisting of Ka-52 and Mi-28n helicopters destroyed 24 pieces of military equipment, including 7 tanks, 5 infantry fighting vehicles and 3 armored personnel carriers during night strikes.*







Operational-tactical and army aviation hit 51 military assets of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Among them: 2 command posts, 3 multiple launch rocket systems, 2 Buk M-1 anti-aircraft missile systems and 1 radar station for target illumination and targeting of S-300 anti-aircraft missile system near Dnepropetrovsk, 3 D-30 artillery mounts, 2 missile and artillery weapons depots, as well as 26 areas of military equipment concentration.




Russian air defence means shot down 2 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicle in the air over Boromlya, Borshchevaya, Oleshnya and Usoki.




*In total, 261 unmanned aerial vehicles, 204 anti-aircraft missile systems, 1,587 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 163 multiple launch rocket systems, 636 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,397 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.*





__





Watch


Original shows and popular videos in different categories from producers and creators you love




fb.watch

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## dBSPL

The southern gas corridor, which will be an alternative to Russia, is starting to take shape. It must be a quirk of history that both Iranian gas and Israeli gas will probably use the same corridor, or not?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507282458143866930

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## thetutle

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507275250505027589
> More high end trucks on its way


soon they will be using rickshaws pulled by Indians to deliver supplies to the front

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507256642802438171





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507376891057033220

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507362718935773186Ukranian AN-124 landed at Çorlu airport today. Some US think tankers question how Turkey still continue to supply drones or related logistics.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505139838705713159The assets of those who invested in gold and silver in the US eroded in the face of Commodity inflation.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Oops, it looks like those sanctions on Russia backfired. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507395794646802434

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## dBSPL



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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507397435450138627

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507383347592540171

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507318840245596163

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## mmr

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507275250505027589
> More high end trucks on its way


soon they will use donkey

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507397435450138627





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507345511799574530

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## WinterFangs

the amount of modern combat footage I’ve seen during this war is like never before.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507317719091318786

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507336303972659203


----------



## mmr

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507318840245596163


USA will take over the entire Russian market share by 2025.

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## Hack-Hook

dBSPL said:


> After the French media remembered the Turkish-French alliance of the 16th century, the Italian media began to remember the strong cooperation and historical relations dating back to the 14th century.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turchia e Italia, nel 2021, hanno stabilito un nuovo record nonostante la pandemia. Intervista con l’Ambasciatore Ömer Gücük
> 
> 
> “Turchia e Italia, due paesi mediterranei amici e alleati, sono due potenze regionali con forti legami di cooperazione e relazioni storiche risalenti al XIV secolo. Un denominatore comune e una stretta cooperazione su questioni regionali e globali hanno portato le relazioni
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.etribuna.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recently, the articles about Turkey in the European press have started to meet my daily need for humor.


That will be epic when Romania and Greece also publish such articles

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## mmr

Germany Targets End to Russian Gas Imports by Middle of 2024​








Germany Targets End to Russian Gas Imports by Middle of 2024 - BNN Bloomberg


Germany plans to quickly wean itself off Russian fossil fuels, aiming to broadly end purchases of the nation’s oil and coal this year and almost completely halt imports of Russian gas by the middle of 2024.




www.bnnbloomberg.ca





@Wood

Time to buy stocks of us natural gas companies

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## Wood

Interview of Ukrainian fighter pilot 



mmr said:


> Germany Targets End to Russian Gas Imports by Middle of 2024​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Germany Targets End to Russian Gas Imports by Middle of 2024 - BNN Bloomberg
> 
> 
> Germany plans to quickly wean itself off Russian fossil fuels, aiming to broadly end purchases of the nation’s oil and coal this year and almost completely halt imports of Russian gas by the middle of 2024.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bnnbloomberg.ca
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Wood


Hope the democrats will allow Key Stone. Canadians should also not be stupid and allow for pipelines that will allow for oil export

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## Hack-Hook

mmr said:


> USA will take over the entire Russian market share by 2025.


well , USA want to provide LNG , wonder now how much more European must pay for gas

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## mmr

Hack-Hook said:


> well , USA want to provide LNG , wonder now how much more European must pay for gas


They can afford it

Better then getting blackmail

Win win for everyone



Wood said:


> Interview of Ukrainian fighter pilot
> 
> 
> Hope the democrats will allow Key Stone. Canadians should also not be stupid and allow for pipelines that will allow for oil export


I hope so too. Canada can gain so much from this. Not just oil and gas canada will now eat russia's lunch for years to come 









World looks to Canada to fill potash, uranium void left by Ukraine - BNN Bloomberg


Buyers scrambling for supplies of potash and uranium are looking to Canada to fill gaps caused by the war in Ukraine.




www.bnnbloomberg.ca





World looks to Canada to fill potash, uranium void left by Ukraine​

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## EvoluXon

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507376320392663042


No body is going to buy west propoganda anymore... Lots of deception and lies from ukraine . Next what? President Zelensky killed 10 russian general with one bullet ..

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## oberschlesier

Hack-Hook said:


> well , USA want to provide LNG , wonder now how much more European must pay for gas


Better to pay more for Gas, that finance Russian war machine.

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## Messerschmitt

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507275250505027589
> More high end trucks on its way


Maybe the Russian army is changing its tactics and is trying to make the Ukrainians feel pity for the them and lay down their weapons out of compassion. It is all part of Vozhd Putin's genius plan to denazify and liberate Ukraine. Everything is going according to plan.

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## Viet

Broccoli said:


> Before this conflict NATO's support was around 23-28% but now it's over 60%. Only matter of time I think.


Yes the NATO now is more united and strong than ever. Thanks to Vladimir.

I expect mass of applications of countries that want to join the NATO.

The Nato should expand to Far East.

Win win.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507394556291129359


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507407703576133634


----------



## dBSPL

Hack-Hook said:


> That will be epic when Romania and Greece also publish such articles


Relations with Romania are already at a very good level. However, I can say this: There are more moderate messages in the Greek press last weeks, than we have ever seen. I don't share because most of them are not related to this topic. It seems that Russia's increasing threat level on Europe caused some breakdowns especially in France-based European press. A similar situation is valid not only for Turkey but also for Iran.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Viet said:


> Yes the NATO now is more united and strong than ever. Thanks to Vladimir.
> 
> I expect mass of applications of countries that want to join the NATO.
> 
> The Nato should expand to Far East.
> 
> Win win.



Give it a few more months and perhaps a few years and see how they're united at that point. The absence of Russian natural resources will have a serious effect on European economies. The US and others will not be able to replace Russian gas and oil.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507407703576133634




Donated by the West to Ukraine, captured by the gallant Russian armed forces, and handed over to the heroic LPR freedom fighters!!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507392817664077825

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## mmr

EXCLUSIVE China's Sinopec pauses Russia projects, Beijing wary of sanctions​








EXCLUSIVE China's Sinopec pauses Russia projects, Beijing wary of sanctions -sources


China's state-run Sinopec Group has suspended talks for a major petrochemical investment and a gas marketing venture in Russia, sources told Reuters, heeding a government call for caution as sanctions mount over the invasion of Ukraine.




www.reuters.com

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Give it a few more months and perhaps a few years and see how they're united at that point. The absence of Russian natural resources will have a serious effect on European economies. The US and others will not be able to replace Russian gas and oil.


No worry, the Russians can’t blackmail europe. Germany just signs energy pacts with US and Katar.
The US will deliver shale oil, shale gas to Germany. Katar will deliver Lng. Nobody will freeze just because no gas coming from Moscow.


----------



## Ich

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Give it a few more months and perhaps a few years and see how they're united at that point. The absence of Russian natural resources will have a serious effect on European economies. The US and others will not be able to replace Russian gas and oil.



There are not even LNG-Terminals in Germany. Let alone the additional masses of LNG-Tankers in the world what would be needed (hundreds if not thousand).

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## FairAndUnbiased

Viet said:


> But Russia is Ukraine neighbor while US is 13,000 km away from Vietnam (Saigon-Los Angeles).
> Putin can quickly send in 500,000 more troops.
> How he will win the war with 230,000 men?
> Ukraine can mobilize over one million men.


Actually US was only across the border since they had a safe space in Thailand even if their ports in South Vietnam was under attack. They also had safe depots in Korea and Japan.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507412726947090432

The Russian Kiev offensive is beginning to evaporate.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507407703576133634





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507301971409215492

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## Viet

Ich said:


> There are not even LNG-Terminals in Germany. Let alone the additional masses of LNG-Tankers in the world what would be needed (hundreds if not thousand).


come on, why so pessimistic? Tesla builds the giant factory in Berlin in 2 years. If we put all hands together I am sure German engineers can build Lng terminals in 2 years. Or 1 year.


----------



## Foinikas

Oldman1 said:


> They were still caught off guard especially the president. He didn't call for general mobilization until after the invasion. Even dismissed the possible invasion. The Ukrainian military had plans to deal with the invasion always preparing but it was the president's call if they should completely mobilize.


Zelensky ordered a mobilization at the night of the second of fourth day,if I remember correctly. The Russians had on the borders for weeks,he kept complaining to the West that the Russians will invade...and he didn't even mobilize all the reserves.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507380518228271123


----------



## Wood

Infield video of the Ukrainian drone recon unit at work. The volunteer drone scout operators also give a short interview


----------



## bobo6661

Viet said:


> come on, Tesla builds the factory in Berlin in 2 years. If we put all hands together I am sure German engineers can build Lng terminal in 2 years.











Germany signs initial contract to build first LNG terminal


The German state bank KfW and the Dutch utility Gasunie have signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) on the construction of the first LNG terminal in Brunsbüttel, Germany.




www.euractiv.com




so yee they plan to finish it in 1,5 -2 years

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507415882796093441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507417478355320833


----------



## Foinikas

khansaheeb said:


> Chechnyans certainly seem to be enjoying their rubles.


Or maybe they just don't buy that Americans and NATO really care about Muslims...

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## Wood

Volunteers in eastern Europe apparently cold call Russians to fight the information blanket. These people have 40 million Russian phone numbers and call them incessantly.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507297756494323720

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507415882796093441

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## Foinikas

Hack-Hook said:


> That will be epic when Romania and Greece also publish such articles


Romania maybe,Greece no.

We all knew(in Greece)from the beginning that Westerners are not 100% reliable as allies,unless they can profit out of it.

Did you see Macron's warm handshake with Erdogan and the smiles?

Like Anna Comnena had said about the Crusaders of the First Crusade:

*"...and as from long experience he knew the Latins' fickleness, he desisted from the enterprise. Not only for this reason, but also because he realized the unstable and faithless nature of these men who were easily swayed in opposite directions like the Euripus, and were often ready because of their covetousness to sell their wives and children for a penny-piece; for these reasons the Emperor held back from the enterprise at that time."*


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507378652320837637


----------



## Wood

Someone should get this jolly good fella a comb

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507419938503409702

The Russians are now losing control of Kherson

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507419959491588098

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## Ich

Viet said:


> come on, why so pessimistic? Tesla builds the giant factory in Berlin in 2 years. If we put all hands together I am sure German engineers can build Lng terminals in 2 years. Or 1 year.



The best what is projected is 3-5 years for all the LNG-terminals. But i doubt it. Do you know how long it needed to build the new Berlin airport? Here you go.

Also a LNG-tanker isnt build in days. At the moment all LNG-tankers in the world are in use, And there are estimates that for Germany alone are 660 LNG-tankers needed - around the clock - to replace russian gas. Let alone the masses LNG-tankers for whole EU.

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507297756494323720


I don't know how difficult it will be for Ukrainian troops to train in these type of equipment. But the US can end this war much sooner if it gets really serious about supplying arms to Ukraine.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507366963139465230

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## F-22Raptor

Wood said:


> I don't know how difficult it will be for Ukrainian troops to train in these type of equipment. But the US can end this war much sooner if it gets really serious about supplying arms to Ukraine.



Should be sent to Odessa IMO. But Odessa looks like it will never get touched, outside of some bombardment.

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## Vergennes

Russian tanks doing good @F-22Raptor 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507422853368528923

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507424577479192578

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507364179233153032

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507424002490388480


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## Wood

Why is this war so important for Europe? Listen to Kraut explain

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507426070257184772

The Gen calling out Russian BS

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507379280560369668

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507422604440780832
Welp

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## bobo6661

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507426070257184772
> 
> The Gen calling out Russian BS


looks like preparations to not lose to much face when the peace talks started

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## FairAndUnbiased

Wood said:


> I don't know how difficult it will be for Ukrainian troops to train in these type of equipment. But the US can end this war much sooner if it gets really serious about supplying arms to Ukraine.


Check the manual.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507386872212955147

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507400326475055104
This is very good development. These idiots can hopefully convince themselves of whatever BS they like and go out of occupied territories without more damage

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507419938503409702

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## oberschlesier

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507424577479192578
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507364179233153032


Exactly, Respect Contracts


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

@Wood

Btw you can tell it's a Ukrainian manual.

I don't want to make any accusations but at minimum this does show that Russians try to avoid civilian casualties.

This is corroborated by US mainstream media citing US analysts.





__





Putin's Bombers Could Devastate Ukraine But He's Holding Back. Here's Why






www.msn.com







Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507419938503409702


I'll believe it when I see Ukrainian flags on Kherson city hall.


----------



## Wood

FairAndUnbiased said:


> @Wood
> 
> Btw you can tell it's a Ukrainian manual.
> 
> I don't want to make any accusations but at minimum this does show that Russians try to avoid civilian casualties.
> 
> This is corroborated by US mainstream media citing US analysts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin's Bombers Could Devastate Ukraine But He's Holding Back. Here's Why
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com


I really doubt the Ukrainians have the wherewithal to do this type of thing in the middle of a war. Especially given that it has only been a month. 

Regardless of whatever the truth is, the Russians should get the hell of Ukrainian territory. The people of the country do not want them there. That much is certain to me


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Wood said:


> I really doubt the Ukrainians have the wherewithal to do this type of thing in the middle of a war. Especially given that it has only been a month.
> 
> Regardless of whatever the truth is, the Russians should get the hell of Ukrainian territory. The people of the country do not want them there. That much is certain to me


Then Ukraine should've respected the wish of the Donbass secessionists and left Mariupol in 2014 if "locals don't want them to be there" is the sole criterion.

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## lcloo

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507419959491588098


Russians made a mistake of berthing their landing ships a day too long at the port. Knowing how fast informations from US satellites can be passed to Ukrainians, the Russian ships should off load their cargo as fast as possible and leave port immediately.

And the TV video reporting of the off-loading operation was indirectly helping the Ukrainians. That video should be released only after the ships have left port.

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## bobo6661

lcloo said:


> Russians made a mistake of berthing their landing ships a day too long at the port. Knowing how fast informations from US satellites can be passed to Ukrainians, the Russian ships should off load their cargo as fast as possible and leave port immediately.


Man US didnt have to do anything 😂 russians bragged about it in propaganda videos on twetter😂


----------



## Vergennes

LMAO @F-22Raptor 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507400330140696576

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> LMAO @F-22Raptor
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507400330140696576


----------



## dbc

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Give it a few more months and perhaps a few years and see how they're united at that point. The absence of Russian natural resources will have a serious effect on European economies. The US and others will not be able to replace Russian gas and oil.



Think again..








Natural Gas Production by Country - Worldometer


List of world countries by Yearly Natural Gas Production in million cubic feet (MMcf)




www.worldometers.info






#Country Yearly Gas Production
(MMcf) 2021

1United States32,914,647,0002Russia22,728,734,0003Iran9,097,956,245











Russia’s Oil-and-Gas Industry Is Starting to Feel the Bite of Sanctions


An exodus of Western energy companies is disrupting major projects from the Arctic to the Pacific Ocean, while traders and banks have been shunning Russian oil cargoes in recent weeks.




www.wsj.com

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## zartosht

oberschlesier said:


> 20 year old Mercedes is worth more, than a new Kamaz... or Lada Kalina



Mercedes and bmw start to lose their elegance once you look past their fancy name/badge

Bmw/mercedes completely lost their way, and are no longer interested in building good cars, but to maximize profit

A new one eco car is probably more reliable then mercedes/bmw. 

Have you wver wondered why you almost never see old bmw or mercedes around?

Because they are packed with unrelible advanced electronics that will fail past the warrAnty and cost an absolute fortune to fix. Making it more feasible for the owner to trash it

Its become a scam for rich/stupid people. Only idiots and people with more money then they know what yo do with go for luxury german cars these days. All of them are unteliable junk by design

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## dbc

Wood said:


> I don't know how difficult it will be for Ukrainian troops to train in these type of equipment. But the US can end this war much sooner if it gets really serious about supplying arms to Ukraine.


that thing is autonomous...

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## dBSPL

dbc said:


> Think again..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Natural Gas Production by Country - Worldometer
> 
> 
> List of world countries by Yearly Natural Gas Production in million cubic feet (MMcf)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldometers.info
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #Country Yearly Gas Production
> (MMcf) 2021
> 
> 1United States32,914,647,0002Russia22,728,734,0003Iran9,097,956,245
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia’s Oil-and-Gas Industry Is Starting to Feel the Bite of Sanctions
> 
> 
> An exodus of Western energy companies is disrupting major projects from the Arctic to the Pacific Ocean, while traders and banks have been shunning Russian oil cargoes in recent weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wsj.com


If Iran receives technical and financial support from Europe, it can double its production in a short time.

Europe may experience problems due to the existing infrastructure (In addition, the green energy vision and goals may be shelved for a few years and coal consumption may increase again), but if it can take decisive steps, the supply problems it will experience will be limited to a few years.

In the long run, there will not be a positive picture for Russia. Because the complete termination of the gas trade indirectly means that a large number of goods and services supplied by Russia from Europe for its strategic sectors are cut off. The complete end of Europe's dependence on Russia will reveal, for Russia, a paradigm of vital dependence on China.


----------



## F-22Raptor

dbc said:


> that thing is autonomous...




And missiles VERY accurate


----------



## dbc

dBSPL said:


> If Iran receives technical and financial support from Europe, it can double its production in a short time.



Yes, but the problem for Iran is transportation


----------



## mmr

Vergennes said:


> LMAO @F-22Raptor
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507400330140696576


----------



## Solidify

Foreign fighters for Russian Armed Forces
watch & Sub


----------



## dBSPL

dbc said:


> Yes, but the problem for Iran is transportation


ITE Anatolian Natural Gas Pipeline Project is a solution perspective in this respect. When gas flow starts on this route, it is possible to increase the capacity gradually without escalating the gas cost.


----------



## Hack-Hook

oberschlesier said:


> Better to pay more for Gas, that finance Russian war machine.


Russian war machine will get financed from somewhere else


----------



## Dalit

Wood said:


> Volunteers in eastern Europe apparently cold call Russians to fight the information blanket. These people have 40 million Russian phone numbers and call them incessantly.



CIA sponsored YT channel.

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## zartosht

Piotr said:


> USA is going to be badly affected, but the biggest loser is going to be Germany. Germany is much more dependend on exports than eg. China or USA. Higher energy prices will make lot of German products uncompetitive. US-founded coup against democratically elected president Yanukovich of the Ukraine to drive the wedge between Russia and Germany. Victoria Nuland explainded this by saying "**** the EU".
> Current crisis is in some ways beneficial for USA (at least for US Military Industrial Complex and US Gas Industry).
> View attachment 826916
> 
> 
> View attachment 826918
> 
> 
> 
> Russia on the other hand is going to benefit from Western sanctons in the long run.



got to give the Americans credit where credit is due though...

At a time when europe was finally starting to see the US for the parasitic entity it was. and how it was at a minimum a competitor with even macron explecitly saying it when trump was bullying euro countries and treating them like colored people...

They have succesfully fooled the euros into sacrificing their economies, security, and social fabric to advance american geopolitical interests. its the euros who will be suffering from the consequences of this war, not the americans. 

Say what you want about american neocons and their "we lied,stole cheated" ideology. Its much superior to whatever the euro sissies have got going on. getting manipulated by washington as a disposable tool.. pathetic.

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## Wood

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Then Ukraine should've respected the wish of the Donbass secessionists and left Mariupol in 2014 if "locals don't want them to be there" is the sole criterion.


Donbass was a territory in Ukraine. Putin's shenanigans there created an insurgency. Ukraine did not invade a foreign country by dealing with the insurgency there.

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## Hack-Hook

dBSPL said:


> Relations with Romania are already at a very good level. However, I can say this: There are more moderate messages in the Greek press last weeks, than we have ever seen. I don't share because most of them are not related to this topic. It seems that Russia's increasing threat level on Europe caused some breakdowns especially in France-based European press. A similar situation is valid not only for Turkey but also for Iran.


Very simple European may say they will get their gas from USA but they knew they must secure another gas pipeline otherwise they must pay thrice for energy in forseable future and that means their economy will be totally messed up .

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## oberschlesier

zartosht said:


> Mercedes and bmw start to lose their elegance once you look past their fancy name/badge
> 
> Bmw/mercedes completely lost their way, and are no longer interested in building good cars, but to maximize profit
> 
> A new one eco car is probably more reliable then mercedes/bmw.
> 
> Have you wver wondered why you almost never see old bmw or mercedes around?
> 
> Because they are packed with unrelible advanced electronics that will fail past the warrAnty and cost an absolute fortune to fix. Making it more feasible for the owner to trash it
> 
> Its become a scam for rich/stupid people. Only idiots and people with more money then they know what yo do with go for luxury german cars these days. All of them are unteliable junk by design


Sorry but you are wrong. In Poland and there are many older ( 5-10 years ) Mercedes and BMWs and nobody complains. Electronics are put into every new car, does not matter the make. The bigger problem are diesel engines, but this an another story. Something that is a luxury for you, does not mean it`s a luxury for other people.

Cars aside what I wanted to say, is that Russia is screwed without western technologies and it`s only going to get worse, whatever import substitution from China they are going to make. They are slowly understanding the mess they are in:

Russian website, not "western propaganda" ( use google translate ): https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5270361


----------



## dBSPL

Wood said:


> Donbass was a territory in Ukraine. Putin's shenanigans there created an insurgency. Ukraine did not invade a foreign country by dealing with the insurgency there.


The majority thinks that this war started in February 2022. However, this is a war that has been going on for 8 years.

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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507367043779096576
> Biden with the 82nd in Poland



I heard Joe fell asleep after the first bite.



Wood said:


> Donbass was a territory in Ukraine. Putin's shenanigans there created an insurgency. Ukraine did not invade a foreign country by dealing with the insurgency there.



I see. So you switched sides again.



dBSPL said:


> The majority thinks that this war started in February 2022. However, this is a war that has been going on for 8 years.



Did you notice how the anti-Turkish Europhiles have suddenly found love for Turkey and Erdogan lately? Suddenly the European leaders are hugging Erdogan and promising paradise. Not so long ago these Western powers were cheerleading a military coup against the Erdogan government.

Erdogan played this one very nicely I must say. He is milking the situation accordingly and he should.

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## Wood

Dalit said:


> I see. So you switched sides again.


I'm not sure what you mean. Think you have me confused with someone else

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## Dalit

Wood said:


> I'm not sure what you mean. Think you have me confused with someone else



No I am pretty sure I have the right guy.

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## oberschlesier

Hack-Hook said:


> Russian war machine will get financed from somewhere else


Sure, but it`s going to be much more difficult for them and the cost will massively rise. They don`t have the infrastructure to export gas in numbers for e.g. to China.


----------



## Wood

Dalit said:


> No I am pretty sure I have the right guy.


I'm pretty sure that you do not.


----------



## Dalit

Wood said:


> I'm pretty sure that you do not.



I know when I see a squealer.

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## Wood

Dalit said:


> I know when I see a squealer.


You must be looking at the mirror  

PS: If you have something to say on topic. That would be better to keep the conversation

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## Hack-Hook

oberschlesier said:


> Sure, but it`s going to be much more difficult for them and the cost will massively rise. They don`t have the infrastructure to export gas in numbers for e.g. to China.


Honestly china construction capabilities are nearly limitless . If they want they certainly can build a pipeline and it's support facilities in just several months


----------



## Dalit

Wood said:


> You must be looking at the mirror
> 
> PS: If you have something to say on topic. That would be better to keep the conversation



Coming back to the topic, stop spreading CIA propaganda. We get it. You are a CIA troll, but don't make it this obvious.

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## Wood

Dalit said:


> Coming back to the topic, stop spreading CIA propaganda. We get it. You are a CIA troll, but don't make it this obvious.


You are free to try and stop me. Your wishes are least of my concern.

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## jamal18

zartosht said:


> got to give the Americans credit where credit is due though...
> 
> At a time when europe was finally starting to see the US for the parasitic entity it was. and how it was at a minimum a competitor with even macron explecitly saying it when trump was bullying euro countries and treating them like colored people...
> 
> They have succesfully fooled the euros into sacrificing their economies, security, and social fabric to advance american geopolitical interests. its the euros who will be suffering from the consequences of this war, not the americans.
> 
> Say what you want about american neocons and their "we lied,stole cheated" ideology. Its much superior to whatever the euro sissies have got going on. getting manipulated by washington as a disposable tool.. pathetic.


Europe has committed suicide at America's behest. Being a Nato member means you're a sacrificial lamb for the US.

' Being America's enemy is dangerous, being America's friend is fatal.' Henry Kissinger.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Wood said:


> Donbass was a territory in Ukraine. Putin's shenanigans there created an insurgency. Ukraine did not invade a foreign country by dealing with the insurgency there.


Donbass seceded due to the coup in Ukraine. They declared independence and won their war of independence. Ukraine simply refused to accept it.

Imagine if UK refused to accept US won the war of independence and the Royal Navy shelled NY once in a while?


----------



## bobo6661

Hack-Hook said:


> Honestly china construction capabilities are nearly limitless . If they want they certainly can build a pipeline and it's support facilities in just several months







__





China's Sinopec suspends talks on Russia projects - report







www.bestinvest.co.uk





(Sharecast News) - China's state-run Sinopec Group has reportedly suspended talks for a major petrochemical investment and a gas marketing venture in Russia.
According to Reuters, Sinopec has halted talks on a potentially half billion dollar investment in a gas chemical plant and a venture to market Russian gas in China.

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## Wood

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Donbass seceded due to the coup in Ukraine. They declared independence and won their war of independence. Ukraine simply refused to accept it.
> 
> Imagine if UK refused to accept US won the war of independence and the Royal Navy shelled NY once in a while?


Nope, they did not win anything unless Ukraine accepted it. Like how Britain accepted USA's independence. Imagine that 



Dalit said:


> LOL who cares man. Irrelevant CIA troll.


Indeed. Please stop caring


----------



## PakFactor

dBSPL said:


> The majority thinks that this war started in February 2022. However, this is a war that has been going on for 8 years.



Thank you. I was losing hope when people think this just started a month ago.

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## Hack-Hook

bobo6661 said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China's Sinopec suspends talks on Russia projects - report
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bestinvest.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Sharecast News) - China's state-run Sinopec Group has reportedly suspended talks for a major petrochemical investment and a gas marketing venture in Russia.
> According to Reuters, Sinopec has halted talks on a potentially half billion dollar investment in a gas chemical plant and a venture to market Russian gas in China.


As I said if they want . And if china want to deal with Russia they probably use their government owned companies not private one.

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## Foinikas

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507419938503409702


These "according to Pentagon officials" posts are ridiculous. It's like "a friend of a friend told me that someone he knows is a vampire".

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## Wood

Former NATO Supreme Allied Commander of Europe Gen. Philip Breedlove warns the more frustrated Russian President Vladimir Putin gets, the more dangerous he'll become


----------



## mmr

Hack-Hook said:


> As I said if they want . And if china want to deal with Russia they probably use their government owned companies not private one.


China is not that dumb to buy all its energy needs from russia. They will keep there energy sources diversified as much as possible to minimize the risk to its economy.


----------



## Dalit

Wood said:


> Nope, they did not win anything unless Ukraine accepted it. Like how Britain accepted USA's independence. Imagine that
> 
> 
> Indeed. Please stop caring



Only if you clap like a pajeet.



Wood said:


> Former NATO Supreme Allied Commander of Europe Gen. Philip Breedlove warns the more frustrated Russian President Vladimir Putin gets, the more dangerous he'll become



LOL CNN. What a credible source.

Let's see what these Americans are made out of. So much tough talk over the years. We all saw what happened in Afghanistan LOL Attacking weaker opponents and flexing muscles. Russia won't stop until it has achieved all of its objectives. Let's see how anyone dares stop Russia.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507436672300064775
Beyond all these discussions, there is a demographic reality that most people miss. Ukraine is the homeland of a large number of people of Turkish and Greek origin, as well as Russians and Ukrainians.


----------



## bobo6661

Hack-Hook said:


> As I said if they want . And if china want to deal with Russia they probably use their government owned companies not private one.


and i think in longer run they will, and sell gas with profit, problem for eu will be prices will rise, but for russia it will be hard for them to replace europe as a market


----------



## Foinikas

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507436672300064775


Well look at that,suddenly we all have a hardon for Ukraine.

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## oberschlesier

Hack-Hook said:


> Very simple European may say they will get their gas from USA but they knew they must secure another gas pipeline otherwise they must pay thrice for energy in forseable future and that means their economy will be totally messed up .


Don`t be so dramatic again, Russia is not so important as they would like to be. The economy of the EU is HUGE, you cannot even start to comprehend how much. Solutions will be found. Gas will be bought from other directions, still including Russia in a limited amount. I hope this will be a good accelerator to get rid of the most of the fossil fuels and be more energy indepentent.

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## Dalit

Foinikas said:


> Well look at that,suddenly we all have a hardon for Ukraine.



Man, the hypocrisy has come to the forefront.



oberschlesier said:


> Don`t be so dramatic again, Russia is not so important as they would like to be. The economy of the EU is HUGE, you cannot even start to comprehend how much. Solutions will be found. Gas will be bought from other directions, still including Russia in a limited amount. I hope this will be a good accelerator to get rid of the most of the fossil fuels and be more energy indepentent.



You mean gas will be bought from nations that you accuse of human rights abuses?


----------



## Hack-Hook

mmr said:


> China is not that dumb to buy all its energy needs from russia. They will keep there energy sources diversified as much as possible to minimize the risk to its economy.


Certainly they buy from different places and certainly one pipeline can't satisfy chaina massive energy need maybe less than 20 to 30 percentage


----------



## Wood

Dalit said:


> Only if you clap like a pajeet.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL CNN. What a credible source.
> 
> Let's see what these Americans are made out of. So much tough talk over the years. We all saw what happened in Afghanistan LOL Attacking weaker opponents and flexing muscles. Russia won't stop until it has achieved all of its objectives. Let's see how anyone dares stop Russia.


Then you have to keep caring forever 

The video was not a source of anything. It was an opinion of an ex-NATO commander


----------



## Hack-Hook

bobo6661 said:


> and i think in longer run they will, and sell gas with profit, problem for eu will be prices will rise, but for russia it will be hard for them to replace europe as a market


Well if Europe don't buy from Russia they had to buy from somewhere else. And then the ones who where buying from that somewhere else had to find another somewhere else aka Russia

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507123343450943496



And the other headline is that has so much Russian infrastructure in their military - and therefore would have the same problems in combat!


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Wood said:


> Nope, they did not win anything unless Ukraine accepted it. Like how Britain accepted USA's independence. Imagine that


And if UK didn't accept US independence then US is justified in continuing to resist and asking France for help.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507440123503423489


----------



## Wood

FairAndUnbiased said:


> And if UK didn't accept US independence then US is justified in continuing to resist and asking France for help.


.. but UK did accept. Ukraine did not and hence the conflict there. No justification for Putin to roll his tanks into the rest of the region


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## LeGenD

Ukraine Situation Report: U.S. Says Russia May Be Giving Up On Taking Kyiv​*A senior U.S. defense official says that Russia's current focus is on eastern Ukraine amid indications that Moscow's objectives might be shifting.*

It has now been 30 days since the Russian military launched its invasion of Ukraine. A senior U.S. defense official says there are indications Russia may be abandoning any attempt, at least for the moment, to capture the Ukrainian capital Kyiv. This follows statements from the Russian Ministry of Defense that suggest it might be seeking to redefine the objectives of this "special operation," which could allow the country to claim victory as advances have slowed on virtually all fronts. Separately, U.S. President Joe Biden has arrived in Poland near the Ukrainian border, visiting American troops forward-deployed there amid a growing refugee crisis.









Ukraine Situation Report: Russia Says It's Focused On Donbas, Might Limit Objectives


A senior U.S. defense official says that Russia's current focus is on eastern Ukraine amid indications that Moscow's objectives might be shifting.




www.thedrive.com

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## Dalit

Wood said:


> Then you have to keep caring forever
> 
> The video was not a source of anything. It was an opinion of an ex-NATO commander



As you say, ex-NATO commander. His opinion doesn't amount to much other than the predictable propaganda.


----------



## Wood

Dalit said:


> As you say, ex-NATO commander. His opinion doesn't amount to much other than the predictable propaganda.


Then you do not have to comment about it. As long as it merits your attention, it is all good


----------



## Dalit

Wood said:


> Then you do not have to comment about it. As long as it merits your attention, it is all good



LOL these are the same commanders and generals who predicted mission accomplished in recent wars. No one takes these old white men seriously.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507443259269955588
France is taking responsibility for the creation of a humanitarian corridor, which is to be appreciated. We will see if the air corridor will be opened. I think the most likely situation is transportation by land or by sea.

@Vergennes

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## Wood

Dalit said:


> LOL these are the same commanders and generals who predicted mission accomplished in recent wars. No one takes these old white men seriously.


Then there is no need to comment about it.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Wood said:


> .. but UK did accept. Ukraine did not and hence the conflict there. No justification for Putin to roll his tanks into the rest of the region


France sent troops to the US during the independence war too.


----------



## Dalit

Wood said:


> Then there is no need to comment about it.



Why? Can't you handle it? When Russia gets on its knees come back and wake me up.

Your country India took a neutral stance and here you are trying your level best to prove your loyalty.

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## Wood

FairAndUnbiased said:


> France sent troops to the US during the independence war too.


France did not send troops to Britain. Same way Russia should not have sent the troops to regions outside Donbass 



Dalit said:


> Why? Can't you handle it?


I certainly can. Evidently, you cannot


----------



## Foinikas

Wood said:


> .. but UK did accept. Ukraine did not and hence the conflict there. No justification for Putin to roll his tanks into the rest of the region


And no justification for Biden,Johnson and the rest of the gang for pushing events to reach the point that Russians invade Ukraine. No,actually this started during Obama's rule. Funny how it's the Democrats who push it.

Just like Albreight and Biden insisted on bombing Serbia and Obama insisted on bombing the heck out of Gaddafi's Libya. The legitimate government of Libya. And then they wanted to change the legitimate government of Syria.

And then they helped kick the legitimate government of Ukraine.

And now are complaining that Russians want to change the "legitimate government of Ukraine".

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507391607393427496


----------



## Wood

Foinikas said:


> And no justification for Biden,Johnson and the rest of the gang for pushing events to reach the point that Russians invade Ukraine. No,actually this started during Obama's rule. Funny how it's the Democrats who push it.
> 
> Just like Albreight and Biden insisted on bombing Serbia and Obama insisted on bombing the heck out Gaddafi's Libya. The legitimate government of Libya. And then they helped kick the legitimate government of Ukraine. And now are complaining that Russians want to change the "legitimate government of Ukraine".
> 
> View attachment 827325


It is all Putin's fault.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507440028036866051

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## Foinikas

Wood said:


> It is all Putin's fault.


Yes,that's why there's memes for years. Apparently,the Russians are to blame for everything.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507341537201606658


----------



## Ich

LeGenD said:


> Ukraine Situation Report: U.S. Says Russia May Be Giving Up On Taking Kyiv​*A senior U.S. defense official says that Russia's current focus is on eastern Ukraine amid indications that Moscow's objectives might be shifting.*
> 
> It has now been 30 days since the Russian military launched its invasion of Ukraine. A senior U.S. defense official says there are indications Russia may be abandoning any attempt, at least for the moment, to capture the Ukrainian capital Kyiv. This follows statements from the Russian Ministry of Defense that suggest it might be seeking to redefine the objectives of this "special operation," which could allow the country to claim victory as advances have slowed on virtually all fronts. Separately, U.S. President Joe Biden has arrived in Poland near the Ukrainian border, visiting American troops forward-deployed there amid a growing refugee crisis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine Situation Report: Russia Says It's Focused On Donbas, Might Limit Objectives
> 
> 
> A senior U.S. defense official says that Russia's current focus is on eastern Ukraine amid indications that Moscow's objectives might be shifting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com



It never was planned to take Kiew. I wrote it here in thread 22000 posts ago. Just binding Ukrain ressources in and near Kiew.

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## oberschlesier

Foinikas said:


> And no justification for Biden,Johnson and the rest of the gang for pushing events to reach the point that Russians invade Ukraine. No,actually this started during Obama's rule. Funny how it's the Democrats who push it.
> 
> Just like Albreight and Biden insisted on bombing Serbia and Obama insisted on bombing the heck out of Gaddafi's Libya. The legitimate government of Libya. And then they wanted to change the legitimate government of Syria.
> 
> And then they helped kick the legitimate government of Ukraine.
> 
> And now are complaining that Russians want to change the "legitimate government of Ukraine".
> 
> View attachment 827325


Taaa, kurwa. Kaliningrad looks more and more yummy


----------



## Foinikas

oberschlesier said:


> Taaa, kurwa. Kaliningrad looks more and more yummy


Imagine how yummy Pomerania,Silesia and West Prussia look to the Germans 



Wood said:


> France did not send troops to Britain. Same way Russia should not have sent the troops to regions outside Donbass


France sent ships and ADVISORS though. LaFayette for example?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507205635514978307


----------



## fallschirmjager786

Russians keep embarassing themselves, Landing ships blowing up in docks far behind lines of control. Now the Kyiv encirclement troops are getting cut off and trapped into a pocket themselves. Still haven't taken full control of Mariupol, generals, colonels and staff officers shot and liquidated.

Looks like even Kherson will be free from Russian control, they kept parking planes, command staff at the airport there even though it was bombed multiple times. Real Blackadder General Melchett level stuff.

Should be a warning to the politicization and corruption of armed services. Better clean the corrupt generals top to bottom.

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## Wood

Foinikas said:


> France sent ships and ADVISORS though. LaFayette for example?


Just like Russia sent people into Crimea. If Putin had focused only on Donbas (like the Russians now claim that they aim to), then there would not be so much trouble.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507435533731086339


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Wood said:


> France did not send troops to Britain. Same way Russia should not have sent the troops to regions outside Donbass


If France could have they would have. It was a question of capability not morality.


----------



## oberschlesier

Foinikas said:


> Imagine how yummy Pomerania,Silesia and West Prussia look to the Germans


Yeah, it`s already taken economicaly and is providing a high quality of life to the population. Don`t need to invate. Anyways, I heard, that a Kalingrad peoples republic is planned. The polish army can the take Kalingrad in 4 hours. It knows how to do blitzkrieg, it`s advised by people who invented it.


----------



## Wood

FairAndUnbiased said:


> If France could have they would have. It was a question of capability not morality.


This is just your opinion. I'll not take that as a fact


----------



## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507450952672022533


----------



## bobo6661

Vergennes said:


> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507450952672022533


guess thats why they gave up on any bigger city

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## FairAndUnbiased

Wood said:


> Just like Russia sent people into Crimea. If Putin had focused only on Donbas (like the Russians now claim that they aim to), then there would not be so much trouble.


The problem was when Ukraine cut off the water supply to Crimea (something that even India never did to Pakistan despite multiple wars).


----------



## dBSPL

fallschirmjager786 said:


> Looks like even Kherson will be free from Russian control, they kept parking planes, command staff at the airport there even though it was bombed multiple times. Real Blackadder General Melchett level stuff.


Some infos comes that the Ukrainian army broke through the Russian lines defending Kherson at 4 points. The Ukrainian army has entered the towns of Kiselvka, Moyevska, Novovorontsovka near Chernobeyevka, and fierce clashes continue around the airbase.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507455468129693699

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## fallschirmjager786

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507431511469006850
Another war criminal admitting his crimes.



dBSPL said:


> Some infos comes that the Ukrainian army broke through the Russian lines defending Kherson at 4 points. The Ukrainian army has entered the towns of Kiselvka, Moyevska, Novovorontsovka near Chernobeyevka, and fierce clashes continue around the airbase.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507455468129693699



Hopefully their able to counter attack towards crimea and cut off the Russian encirclement of mariupol from the East.

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## LeGenD

Ich said:


> It never was planned to take Kiew. I wrote it here in thread 22000 posts ago. Just binding Ukrain ressources in and near Kiew.


Russian forces wanted to take Kyiv and fought numerous battles in its surroundings but were unable to achieve breakthrough in this sector.

Russians have decided to concentrate on Donbas for now. Russians continue to face resistance in this supposedly pro-Russian sector including in Mariupol. Maybe Putin can enlighten us.

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## FairAndUnbiased

fallschirmjager786 said:


> Hopefully their able to counter attack towards crimea and cut off the Russian encirclement of mariupol from the East.


Lolwut

DPR leadership are already giving press conferences in the middle of Mariupol.



dBSPL said:


> Some infos comes that the Ukrainian army broke through the Russian lines defending Kherson at 4 points. The Ukrainian army has entered the towns of Kiselvka, Moyevska, Novovorontsovka near Chernobeyevka, and fierce clashes continue around the airbase.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507455468129693699


The ghost of Kherson?


----------



## Wood

FairAndUnbiased said:


> The problem was when Ukraine cut off the water supply to Crimea (something that even India never did to Pakistan despite multiple wars).


I do not wish to drum up excuses for non humanitarian practices from the Ukrainian side. The problem is because Putin decided to invade Ukraine with a hour long monologue that it should not have existed. Now there is a humanitarian catastrophe in the global scale because a despot was fed stupid intelligence by people working for him.


----------



## fallschirmjager786

LeGenD said:


> Russian forces wanted to take Kyiv and fought numerous battles in its surroundings but were unable to achieve breakthrough in this sector.
> 
> Russians have decided to concentrate on Donbas for now. Russians continue to face resistance in this supposedly pro-Russian sector including in Mariupol. Maybe Putin can enlighten us.



They have no choice. Thats the only thing they have to show for this sideshow. Even Kherson will be out of their hands soon. Terrible miscalculation on Putins part.

Its still not easy, Ukrainians have to show if they can adapt going on the offensive, its going to be a different ball game switching to offense.

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## Foinikas

Wood said:


> Just like Russia sent people into Crimea. If Putin had focused only on Donbas (like the Russians now claim that they aim to), then there would not be so much trouble.


I agree with you on that. I don't understand why they proclaimed it independent and recognized it and they invaded 2 days later. What was the reason? Why? What for? Why bother recognize it if you are going to invade anyway?

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## Wood

LeGenD said:


> Russian forces wanted to take Kyiv and fought numerous battles in its surroundings but were unable to achieve breakthrough in this sector.
> 
> Russians have decided to concentrate on Donbas for now. Russians continue to face resistance in this supposedly pro-Russian sector including in Mariupol. Maybe Putin can enlighten us.


I don't think the American weapons aid have even reached Ukraine yet.


----------



## Vergennes

LeGenD said:


> Russian forces wanted to take Kyiv and fought numerous battles in its surroundings but were unable to achieve breakthrough in this sector.
> 
> Russians have decided to concentrate on Donbas for now. Russians continue to face resistance in this supposedly pro-Russian sector including in Mariupol. Maybe Putin can enlighten us.



Actually Russians planned to take whole Ukraine betting on uprising of pro Russians and the total collapse of the Ukrainian army given the "shock and awe" of the first days,towns falling one by one. But that did not happen,so Russians have to review their plans because they have realized it would be too costly,nearly impossible to take whole Ukraine.

They planned to take Mariupol,kharkiv,Mikolayiv,Odessa,Kyiv,Zaporijia and the rest but now they are "concentrating on donbass".

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## oberschlesier

FairAndUnbiased said:


> The problem was when Ukraine cut off the water supply to Crimea (something that even India never did to Pakistan despite multiple wars).


Why are suprise by this ? Crimea is officialy a Ukraine territory, whatever the Russian narration is saying.


----------



## Foinikas

oberschlesier said:


> Yeah, it`s already taken economicaly and is providing a high quality of life to the population. Don`t need to invate. Anyways, I heard, that a Kalingrad peoples republic is planned. The polish army can the take Kalingrad in 4 hours. It knows how to do blitzkrieg, it`s advised by people who invented it.


Don't try anything. I don't want Poland to enter into a war with Russia. I don't want Poland to be hurt. I know people there,women! WOMEN! I know women from Wroclaw,Warsaw,Krakow,Byalistok and Poznan area. 

Don't bring Poland into this. It would be crazy. Americans come and go. Iskander missiles can reach most of Poland from Kaliningrad and Belarus. 

I don't want to see Poland get involved too. Nor Slovakia nor Romania. The cucks are turning Slavs and Orthodox against each other and making big money out of it and we're all like "Support Ukraine" and "Putin is great leader". 

And the Jews are rubbing their hands and smiling. And the defense industries are dancing around. And the Americans are happy and safe far away.

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## Dustom9

Last important air force command in Vinnytsia destroyed.


----------



## dBSPL

France summoned the Russian ambassador to foreign affairs because sharing this cartoons.









“These cartoons are unacceptable,” the statement says.

But, once upon times, Macron said about Islamophobic cartoons, "Everything can be caricatured in France, this is our freedom of expression."

Reactions: Like Like:
9 | Love Love:
4 | Haha Haha:
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## Foinikas

A friend showed me this:









The Ukrainian Army Has Been Defeated. What's Left Is Mop-Up - A Son of the New American Revolution


I gave a written interview to Mike Witney, who writes for UNZ.COM. Here it is: Question 1– Can you explain to me why you think Russia is winning the war...




sonar21.com

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507368979765018629

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## Ich

LeGenD said:


> Russian forces wanted to take Kyiv and fought numerous battles in its surroundings but were unable to achieve breakthrough in this sector.
> 
> Russians have decided to concentrate on Donbas for now. Russians continue to face resistance in this supposedly pro-Russian sector including in Mariupol. Maybe Putin can enlighten us.



As i remember i described all also in an answer to you around 21000 posts ago.


----------



## mmr

LeGenD said:


> Russian forces wanted to take Kyiv and fought numerous battles in its surroundings but were unable to achieve breakthrough in this sector.
> 
> Russians have decided to concentrate on Donbas for now. Russians continue to face resistance in this supposedly pro-Russian sector including in Mariupol. Maybe Putin can enlighten us.


Putin's gamble didnt pay out






War in Ukraine: The end of Vladimir Putin?​

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## SQ8

Rafi said:


> My girl and her relatives are hearing some very disturbing news, other than this horrible war, organized crime groups have started to appear in Poland, Moldova and some other countries.
> 
> They are trying to lure young Ukranian women for sex trafficking. 😢 😭 it just breaks your heart, but there are human scum that will try to take advantage of a tragedy.


Happened in all refugee camps - be it Turkey, the mexican border.. all over. Where there is chaos there will be crime

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## oberschlesier

Foinikas said:


> Don't try anything. I don't want Poland to enter into a war with Russia. I don't want Poland to be hurt. I know people there,women! WOMEN! I know women from Wroclaw,Warsaw,Krakow,Byalistok and Poznan area.
> 
> Don't bring Poland into this. It would be crazy. Americans come and go. Iskander missiles can reach most of Poland from Kaliningrad and Belarus.
> 
> I don't want to see Poland get involved too. Nor Slovakia nor Romania. The cucks are turning Slavs and Orthodox against each other and making big money out of it and we're all like "Support Ukraine" and "Putin is great leader".
> 
> And the Jews are rubbing their hands and smiling. And the defense industries are dancing around. And the Americans are happy and safe far away.


Don`t be so dramatic. Poland does not want to enter a war with Russia, but a demilitatasation and denizafication of Kalingrad would be nice  How many of the Iskander, they have left ?
Remember, were are more crazy that the Russians!

Think more about the the man and WOMEN of Minsk, Moscow and Smolensk!

Poland is as well slavic nation and does not like what Russia is doing.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507175435741802497

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## FairAndUnbiased

Foinikas said:


> Don't try anything. I don't want Poland to enter into a war with Russia. I don't want Poland to be hurt. I know people there,women! WOMEN! I know women from Wroclaw,Warsaw,Krakow,Byalistok and Poznan area.
> 
> Don't bring Poland into this. It would be crazy. Americans come and go. Iskander missiles can reach most of Poland from Kaliningrad and Belarus.



I thought Chinese are anti Japan but after seeing what Eastern Europeans think about Russia, the degree of nationalism is starting to scare me.

Chinese-Japanese relations are terrible yet almost friendly compared to what I see in Eastern Europe.

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## Meengla

Foinikas said:


> And no justification for Biden,Johnson and the rest of the gang for pushing events to reach the point that Russians invade Ukraine. No,actually this started during Obama's rule. Funny how it's the Democrats who push it.
> 
> Just like Albreight and Biden insisted on bombing Serbia and Obama insisted on bombing the heck out of Gaddafi's Libya. The legitimate government of Libya. And then they wanted to change the legitimate government of Syria.
> 
> And then they helped kick the legitimate government of Ukraine.
> 
> And now are complaining that Russians want to change the "legitimate government of Ukraine".



You are telling too much truth to those who believe in some 'manifest destiny' or 'exceptions' or 'exceptionalism'. 
And in the words of John Pilger: "Democrats have been more rapacious [compared with Republicans] since World War II. "


----------



## bobo6661

FairAndUnbiased said:


> I thought Chinese are anti Japan but after seeing what Eastern Europeans think about Russia, the degree of nationalism is starting to scare me.
> 
> Chinese-Japanese relations are terrible yet almost friendly compared to what I see in Eastern Europe.


Its more like we don't want Communism in oligarch version 2 here, 45 years where enough


----------



## oberschlesier

FairAndUnbiased said:


> I thought Chinese are anti Japan but after seeing what Eastern Europeans think about Russia, the degree of nationalism is starting to scare me.
> 
> Chinese-Japanese relations are terrible yet almost friendly compared to what I see in Eastern Europe.


It`s not nationalism, it`s pragmatism. Being in the Warsaw pact, that was probably the only defence pact in the history, that invaded their own members + crapy economy under the soviet union did the job.


----------



## coffee_cup

dBSPL said:


> France summoned the Russian ambassador to foreign affairs because sharing this cartoons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “These cartoons are unacceptable,” the statement says.
> 
> But, once upon times, Macron said about Islamophobic cartoons, "Everything can be caricatured in France, this is our freedom of expression."



Oh wow!!

Whatever happened to that famous "freedom of speech" and "freedom of insulting others religions".

It is beyond hypocrisy, there must be some other term for that.

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## FairAndUnbiased

bobo6661 said:


> Its more like we don't want Communism in oligarch version 2 here


And we don't want Japanese fascism back lmao but we don't spend every day with Japan living in our heads rent free. Yet even today you have Russia as the centerpiece of your foreign policy.


----------



## oberschlesier

coffee_cup said:


> Oh wow!!
> 
> Whatever happened to that famous "freedom of speech" and "freedom of insulting others religions".
> 
> It is beyond hypocrisy, there must be some other term for that.


Cheap propaganda. Almost as cheap as Lada Kalina


----------



## Foinikas

Meengla said:


> You are telling too much truth to those who believe in some 'manifest destiny' or 'exceptions' or 'exceptionalism'.
> And in the words of John Pilger: "Democrats have been more rapacious [compared with Republicans] since World War II. "


Yet somehow the Republicans are considered the "warmongers imperialists"


----------



## bobo6661

FairAndUnbiased said:


> And we don't want Japanese fascism back lmao but we don't spend every day with Japan living in our heads rent free. Yet even today you have Russia as the centerpiece of your foreign policy.


Russia did a lot to us in the past to, but yee our curent goverment does not realy like them and see them as a threat, guess they where right 😂
Normal people where not realy that much anti russia before but now 🤷‍♂️


----------



## coffee_cup

oberschlesier said:


> Cheap propaganda. Almost as cheap as Lada Kalina



I dont care what it is.

This president went nuts to defend "freedom for caricatures" when they were insulting and spreading hatred against others.

And now when the tables are turned, is b!tching like a little girl!

Yes, this whole thing is very sad but at least we are seeing the real face of these defenders of "freedom to insult" people...

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507427167650594872

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

zartosht said:


> got to give the Americans credit where credit is due though...
> 
> At a time when europe was finally starting to see the US for the parasitic entity it was. and how it was at a minimum a competitor with even macron explecitly saying it when trump was bullying euro countries and treating them like colored people...
> 
> They have succesfully fooled the euros into sacrificing their economies, security, and social fabric to advance american geopolitical interests. its the euros who will be suffering from the consequences of this war, not the americans.
> 
> Say what you want about american neocons and their "we lied,stole cheated" ideology. Its much superior to whatever the euro sissies have got going on. getting manipulated by washington as a disposable tool.. pathetic.


And russia could have let the alliance crumble, but ti invaded and NATO is stronger then it has ever been. and causing russia massive damage. So the invasion was not very smart.

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## oberschlesier

coffee_cup said:


> I dont care what it is.
> 
> This president went nuts to defend "freedom for caricatures" when they were insulting and spreading hatred against others.
> 
> And now when the tables are turned, is b!tching like a little girl!
> 
> Yes, this whole thing is very sad but at least we are seeing the real face of these defenders of "freedom to insult" people...


Cheap propaganda, they don`t even know how to do good mems 
A good mem, why russia is not winning:


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

bobo6661 said:


> Russia did a lot to us in the past to, but yee our curent goverment does not realy like them and see them as a threat, guess they where right 😂
> Normal people where not realy that much anti russia before but now 🤷‍♂️


I can't pretend to understand Eastern European politics. Balkanization is a word for a reason I guess.


----------



## oberschlesier

FairAndUnbiased said:


> I can't pretend to understand Eastern European politics. Balkanization is a word for a reason I i see youn don`t eastern


Russians are wrong in their campaings.


----------



## bobo6661

FairAndUnbiased said:


> I can't pretend to understand Eastern European politics. Balkanization is a word for a reason I guess.


The most recent problem is russia withholding plane wreckage of polish tupolew that crashed in russia, many high rank politicians and military died on that crash, and they(curent goverment) are blaming russia for it, its realy complicated.









Smolensk air disaster - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Meengla

Foinikas said:


> Yet somehow the Republicans are considered the "warmongers imperialists"



That's what I used to think for a long time. Being in America for decades and blindly voting for Democrats, partly because I thought of them as more peaceful about foreign affairs. But I learned and learned too slowly and it was only in late 2020 when I realized Democrats are just as warmongering as Republicans--and actually more. 

It is amazing how blindly Americans support foreign wars when they don't trust the govt about most matters. Notice how the US Congress comes together when it is about foreign wars otherwise the Congressmen and Senators are strictly divided along party lines? Notice how most of the media is split along party lines but when it comes to foreign wars they rally together? And with the constant bombardments of a certain narrative, people, busy in their lives, make up their minds quickly. I just came home from a haircut and the lady started to talk about 'how a certain evil guy like Putin goes onto kill to expand his empire'. I wasn't in the mood to talk and I just said, yes, there is good and evil in this world.

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## coffee_cup

Russia has 'stolen' 100s of Jets: EU

EU is complaining that Russia has 'stolen' 100s of civilian jets after Putin signed a new law on 14th of March this year.


----------



## Dalit

Meengla said:


> That's what I used to think for a long time. Being in America for decades and blindly voting for Democrats, partly because I thought of them as more peaceful about foreign affairs. But I learned and learned too slowly and it was only in late 2020 when I realized Democrats are just as warmongering as Republicans--and actually more.
> 
> It is amazing how blindly Americans support foreign wars when they don't trust the govt about most matters. Notice how the US Congress comes together when it is about foreign wars otherwise the Congressmen and Senators are strictly divided along party lines? Notice how most of the media is split along party lines but when it comes to foreign wars they rally together? And with the constant bombardments of a certain narrative, people, busy in their lives, make up their minds quickly. I just came home from a haircut and the lady started to talk about 'how a certain evil guy like Putin goes onto kill to expand his empire'. I wasn't in the mood to talk and I just said, yes, there is good and evil in this world.



Two sides of the same coin.

No one is buying US/NATO warmongering BS anymore after Iraq and Afghanistan. Two failed campaigns full of lies and deceit in our era.

If anything I am glad Russia pounced. This was needed to settle some scores. LOL these Westerners were busy hating on China. There came Russia and demolished Western desires. They are puzzled and shackled in a conflict they never saw coming.


----------



## dbc

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507175435741802497



3:35 you see a wind mill farm in the background. The video was filmed, north of Crimea in Ukrainian territory. The Russian RT narrative of retreating Ukraine forces is BS, that area was mined after the Russian invasion of Crimea, 2014.

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## Dalit

coffee_cup said:


> Russia has 'stolen' 100s of Jets: EU
> 
> EU is complaining that Russia has 'stolen' 100s of civilian jets after Putin signed a new law on 14th of March this year.



Good. Nice bounty. I hope Pakistan starts importing Russian oil and gas. Win win. Let's rectify some old mistakes. We were mad to join US/NATO Cold War crusade against former USSR. They ditched us in broad daylight to embrace India. Today they expect us to condemn Russia. This must be the joke of this era.

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## Mohsin A

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506000023816974340

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## Hassan Al-Somal

dbc said:


> 3:35 you see a wind mills farm in the background. The video was filmed here, north of Crimea in Ukrainian territory. The Russian RT narrative of retreating Ukraine forces is BS, that area was mined after the Russian invasion of Crimea, 2014.



Nope, it is in the Kherson region. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506824625543696387


----------



## coffee_cup

oberschlesier said:


> Cheap propaganda, they don`t even know how to do good mems
> A good mem, why russia is not winning:
> View attachment 827333



Ok, lets say it was bad meme and cheap propaganda.

Just ignore and carry on, why b!tch about it? What happened to the "freedom of speech" that the president of the same nation was so vigrously lecturing about some months back?


----------



## dbc

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Nope, it is in the Kherson region.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506824625543696387



yeah which is just north of Crimea.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507418276388913157


dbc said:


> yeah which is just north of Crimea.




You said the video was captured in Crimea in 2014. False. By showing this other video where it shows in Kherson in March 2022, you got busted. Next time, try to refute something you're sure and don't throw wild claims that get easily busted.


----------



## Ali_Baba

coffee_cup said:


> Russia has 'stolen' 100s of Jets: EU
> 
> EU is complaining that Russia has 'stolen' 100s of civilian jets after Putin signed a new law on 14th of March this year.



That is fine - just deduct it from Russian assets that have been sanctioned at new prices.... job done.

Those planes cannot operate for long - and will most certainly be operating with manufacturer warranty and therefore insurance etc.


----------



## Trango Towers

Wood said:


> In your opinion, what are the chances for Finland to join NATO?


Why join when you can arm yourself to the teeth?


----------



## oberschlesier

patero said:


> Why does he have the symbol for gay men on his shoulders? Two interlocking male symbols (mars), does this mean he is a general in the Russian gay army?


What ? He is a general of the russian inkompetent army for sure.

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## Wood

Trango Towers said:


> Why join when you can arm yourself to the teeth?


I saw an interview from ex-Prime minister of Finland. He was saying that Finnish people did not want to fight alone in any future war with Russia. His claim was that it was just a matter of procedure now for Finland to join NATO as majority of the population is in favor.

So I wanted to check with this poster here (who claims to be Finnish).


----------



## oberschlesier

Trango Towers said:


> Why join when you can arm yourself to the teeth?


Finland should join NATO, ignoring the decling power of Russia.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Destroyed artillery depots of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Chernihiv by the Russian military


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507439902241263629

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## dbc

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You said the video was captured in Crimea in 2014. False. By showing this other video where it shows in Kherson in March 2022, you got busted. Next time, try to refute something you're sure and don't throw wild claims that get easily busted.


Please improve you reading and comprehension skills. I said north of Crimea in Ukraine territory. And, I didn't say the video was taken in 2014.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507418276388913157
> 
> 
> 
> You said the video was captured in Crimea in 2014. False. By showing this other video where it shows in Kherson in March 2022, you got busted. Next time, try to refute something you're sure and don't throw wild claims that get easily busted.



This could be a significant event in-terms of this war - but it would only affect the limited ability of the UAF airforce to operate if true and not the drone fleet (given the nature of how drones are structured and operate).

Lets see - hopefully not damaged too much and still operational.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Destroyed artillery depots of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Chernihiv - part 2


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507440109699932172

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## oberschlesier

coffee_cup said:


> Ok, lets say it was bad meme and cheap propaganda.
> 
> Just ignore and carry on, why b!tch about it? What happened to the "freedom of speech" that the president of the same nation was so vigrously lecturing about some months back?



It was just funny, the freedom of speach is fine. Just he Perfomrance of the Russian forces is so bad, that is generating mems.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Destruction of a mined BMP-1 of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Zaporozhye region 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507356211347439619


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507417962499612674


----------



## dbc

At least the Russia military is good for a few laughs 


Western officials have said they believe a *Russian commander was run over by mutinous forces* during the fighting in Ukraine, in a sign of what they described as the “morale challenges” faced by the invading forces.

They highlighted – and repeated – reports from earlier this week from a Ukrainian journalist that a colonel of the 37th separate guards motor rifle brigade was run over by a tank. Some reports said he had died of his injuries.









Mutinous Russian troops ran over their own commander, say western officials


Officials describe reported incident during fighting in Ukraine as sign of ‘morale challenges’ faced by invading forces




www.theguardian.com

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## Hassan Al-Somal

*Captured Ukrainian tank T-72AMT *

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507439366465064972
*Self-propelled gun 2C7 "Pion" of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, captured by the Russian Federation Armed Forces*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507207200456028165
*Captured self-propelled guns 2C5 "Hyacinth-S" of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which became prey for the NM of the LPR*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507414326830899208

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## Tamerlane

coffee_cup said:


> Oh wow!!
> 
> Whatever happened to that famous "freedom of speech" and "freedom of insulting others religions".
> 
> *It is beyond hypocrisy, there must be some other term for that.*



The English language doesn't have a suitable word for the level of hypocrisy displayed by the Anglos & the French.

I propose a new word: *hyp-hyp*. Hyper hypocrisy.

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## coffee_cup

Ali_Baba said:


> That is fine - just deduct it from Russian assets that have been sanctioned at new prices.... job done.
> 
> Those planes cannot operate for long - and will most certainly be operating with manufacturer warranty and therefore insurance etc.



Yes, I guess one single $ 900 million Russian boat will cover some of those. And EU has already taken several of them.


----------



## Ali_Baba

coffee_cup said:


> Yes, I guess one single $ 900 million Russian boat will cover some of those. And EU has already taken several of them.



Hundreds of billions of dollars worth of cash belonging to the Russian Goverment has been sanctioned - you not been reading the news ?


----------



## Dalit

Tamerlane said:


> The English language doesn't have a suitable word for the level of hypocrisy displayed by the Anglos & the French.
> 
> I propose a new word: *hyp-hyp*. Hyper hypocrisy.



If only I could collect the snowflake tears of these hypocrites. I would hold a cup right across their cheeks and not waste a teardrop.

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## zartosht

LeGenD said:


> Russian forces wanted to take Kyiv and fought numerous battles in its surroundings but were unable to achieve breakthrough in this sector.
> 
> Russians have decided to concentrate on Donbas for now. Russians continue to face resistance in this supposedly pro-Russian sector including in Mariupol. Maybe Putin can enlighten us.



You are assuming that Russia is trying to take every single place its troops get close to.

It is actually a brilliant strategy. By having forces near kiev, mariupol, kharkiv and donbass region. They force the ukies to commit huge portions of their army into defending everywhere from a potential attack. and prevents them from massing to defend a single area. and keeps them constantly guessing about Russias moves. and will be an absolute logistical nightmare.

They could be simply diversionary troops. its a pretty common tactic actually. And the Ukies might even be able to recapture a village here and there from these diversionary troops. 

but in reality while everyone is fapping to CIA propaganda on twitter, Russia is getting very close to capturing a second major ukie city of mariupol along the black sea, and getting ever closer to landlocking ukraine. The west is even trying to evacuate its agents in some turk,greek,french civilian saving cover operation knowing the end is near

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## Dalit

sur said:


> (source)
> View attachment 827342



These hypocrites have been exposed to the bone. Blue eyes and blonde hair. Everyone knows it by now.

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## PakFactor

dBSPL said:


> France summoned the Russian ambassador to foreign affairs because sharing this cartoons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “These cartoons are unacceptable,” the statement says.
> 
> But, once upon times, Macron said about Islamophobic cartoons, "Everything can be caricatured in France, this is our freedom of expression."





sur said:


> (source)
> View attachment 827342



I absolutely see no reason what so ever for the French of all people moaning like whores at those pictures. They have always said they support strongly the freedom of speech, expression and 100s of other shit.

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## Ali_Baba

Western intelligence says Russians have lost 20 BATTALIONS ..​








Russia to scale back invasion to just 'liberating' the eastern Donbas


Russia's defence ministry also updated its losses in Ukraine to 1,351 soldiers, adding that 3,825 soldiers had been wounded - figures that are far lower than Western intelligence estimates.




www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## KAL-EL

oberschlesier said:


> Finland should join NATO, ignoring the decling power of Russia.



And if it doesn't, at the very least, it should arm itself to the teeth.

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## coffee_cup

Ali_Baba said:


> Hundreds of billions of dollars worth of cash belonging to the Russian Goverment has been sanctioned - you not been reading the news ?


Really?

I thought it was only Russia who was "stealing".

C'mon, US/EU can never steal. You must be kidding.


----------



## SaadH

Dalit said:


> Good. Nice bounty. I hope Pakistan starts importing Russian oil and gas. Win win. Let's rectify some old mistakes. We were mad to join US/NATO Cold War crusade against former USSR. They ditched us in broad daylight to embrace India. Today they expect us to condemn Russia. This must be the joke of this era.


Well our establishment is dying to go back into Western arms, hence manufacturing a coup against IK.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507473089952718851

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## Foinikas

oberschlesier said:


> It`s not nationalism, it`s pragmatism. Being in the Warsaw pact, that was probably the only defence pact in the history, that invaded their own members + crapy economy under the soviet union did the job.


Well no NATO member decided to leave yet,that's why. Imagine if one of the eastern countries leaves NATO. Immediate intervention for regime change,riots,suddenly the economy goes bad etc.

In the case of Greece,they will use Turkey and in the case of Turkey,they will support and fund Greece.

In the case of Western and Central European countries,they will treat them just like they treated France with the submarine deals.

It's not easy leaving NATO. Americans won't allow it.


----------



## comci

mmr said:


> Dont waste your time
> 
> better focus on sharing updates
> 
> weather some dude from somalia accept or not should not be an issue lol


''weather''? Second time i see you wrote ''weather'' instead of whether. Are you sure you live in Canada? 

weather:






conjunction: *whether*

expressing a doubt or choice between alternatives.
"he seemed undecided *whether* to go *or* stay"
expressing an inquiry or investigation (often used in indirect questions).
"I'll see whether she's at home"


indicating that a statement applies whichever of the alternatives mentioned is the case.
"I'm going *whether* you like it *or not*"

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## dbc

Foinikas said:


> Well no NATO member decided to leave yet



France left NATO and rejoined 43 years later.

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## mmr

comci said:


> ''weather''? Second time i see you wrote ''weather'' instead of whether. Are you sure you live in Canada?
> 
> weather:
> View attachment 827347
> 
> 
> conjunction: *whether*
> 
> expressing a doubt or choice between alternatives.
> "he seemed undecided *whether* to go *or*stay"
> expressing an inquiry or investigation (often used in indirect questions).
> "I'll see whether she's at home"
> 
> 
> indicating that a statement applies whichever of the alternatives mentioned is the case.
> "I'm going *whether* you like it *or not*"


 Ppl made spell mistakes when type on phone. 

Whats to do with i live in canada or not?


----------



## LeGenD

Dalit said:


> Two sides of the same coin.
> 
> No one is buying US/NATO warmongering BS anymore after Iraq and Afghanistan. Two failed campaigns full of lies and deceit in our era.
> 
> If anything I am glad Russia pounced. This was needed to settle some scores. LOL these Westerners were busy hating on China. There came Russia and demolished Western desires. They are puzzled and shackled in a conflict they never saw coming.



Yes - both Republicans and Democrats have controversial track record in the matters of Foreign Policy.

- - -

US/NATO assaulted Iraq on controversial and questionable grounds (bad decision) but their battlefield accomplishments under the cover of War On Terror are significant:

Al-Qaeda Network in South Asia = Dismantled (Operation Enduring Freedom)
Saddam regime of Iraq = Dismantled (Operation Iraqi Freedom)
Qaddafi regime of Libya = Dismantled (Operation Odyssey Drawn)
Islamic State of Iraq and Levant (ISIL) in Middle East = Dismantled (Operation Inherent Resolve)

None of the above were productive entities.

Al-Qaeda Network was up to NO GOOD and drew US/NATO to launch War On Terror instead:









TIMELINE - Major attacks by al Qaeda


REUTERS - Following is a timeline of some of the major attacks carried out or inspired by al Qaeda and its associates:




www.reuters.com





Non-state actors = TROUBLE

- - -

Russia assaulting a neighboring country for the sake of settling scores with the WEST is a bad move. Putin administration managed to hurt/displace millions of innocents in Ukraine (and managed to make life of ordinary Russians more difficult due to Russian economy being subjected to sanctions by multiple countries) while rejuvenating NATO across Europe. Not sure about which Western desire was demolished in Ukraine while Russians and Ukrainians are dying in the war.

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## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507473089952718851


Heart attack after seeing how his army performing lol


----------



## Trango Towers

Wood said:


> I saw an interview from ex-Prime minister of Finland. He was saying that Finnish people did not want to fight alone in any future war with Russia. His claim was that it was just a matter of procedure now for Finland to join NATO as majority of the population is in favor.
> 
> So I wanted to check with this poster here (who claims to be Finnish).


But Russia will not stand for that. These are the foundations of a world war



oberschlesier said:


> Finland should join NATO, ignoring the decling power of Russia.


What benefit will it bring other than war?


----------



## comci

mmr said:


> Ppl made spell mistakes when type on phone.
> 
> Whats to do with i live in canada or not?



Most non-native english speakers i encountered made the same mistake like you did. If you live in Canada, an english speaking country, except for parts like* Québec* , you wont make that mistake.


----------



## The SC



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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507457040045670404

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507367261203542020

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507346721126424582

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507349032993275906

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507474590955671552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507298698023391233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507454387928670209

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507449695408627712

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## Schutz

Russia completed its goals, if it's goals were doing nothing and turning Russian military into a joke.

And why are Pakistanis defending Russia? You call yourself Muslims but get close to Russia who has invaded and killed more Muslims than any other nation. Then to make matters worse you also choose China who are a country which forbids religion and persecutes Muslims to the same level as Nazis did to Jews before they started the mass killings.

Shameful, just because you don't like the USA etc does not mean to choose a worse friend. How many successful Pakistanis are in the west? Loads, UK has Pakistani billionaire's, politicians, teachers, scientists etc etc, in Russia a Pakistani would be treated like shit and probably experience extremely overt racism.

We muslims can live a life we want in the west and be a success, try that anywhere outside of the west

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## Foinikas

dbc said:


> France left NATO and rejoined 43 years later.


Yes but France is France and it was the Cold War...they couldn't do much against them. Plus the French eventually got nukes.



Schutz said:


> And why are Pakistanis defending Russia? You call yourself Muslims but get close to Russia who has invaded and killed more Muslims than any other nation.


In recent history or 300 years ago?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507463663975809026

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507376354177732610

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507090877247860742

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507363001942355985

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507505633259630599

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507423319582195745

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507286930588942409



Spoiler: Graphic



https://twitter.com/pedrojosecama/status/1507488318379995144

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507109830246350865A good example of psyop on social media.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507415160037654529

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507250295511785475


----------



## jhungary

Foinikas said:


> Zelensky ordered a mobilization at the night of the second of fourth day,if I remember correctly. The Russians had on the borders for weeks,he kept complaining to the West that the Russians will invade...and he didn't even mobilize all the reserves.


The west is the one calling an invasion on Ukraine, Zelenskyy did not believe the intel from the west and he did not call for an general mobilisation until the Russian actually did invade, instead, he went to a skiing holiday...I don't think he cry and complaining to the west that Russian will invade until it is virtually too late. Before Feb 20, his tone is "Don't Spread Rumor, it hurt business"

This article summed up the mood in Ukraine and with Zelenskyy very well. And we know 10 days after this article is published, Russian indeed had invaded









Enough with the Ukraine war predictions


Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky’s revealing joke about a February 16 invasion, explained.




www.vox.com





In effect, Zelenskyy only really believe in Invasion is imminent right about the time Putin announce LNR and DPR as independent state. Around Feb 20-22.

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## jhungary

Wood said:


> Donbass was a territory in Ukraine. Putin's shenanigans there created an insurgency. Ukraine did not invade a foreign country by dealing with the insurgency there.


IS, not "was" 

And judging the way and length the Russian took Mariupol (still has not fall on day 30), I really doubt Russia can do anything with the entire Donbas region. It's a lot better entrenched than the city, lay out with defensive network, plus you are giving the Ukrainian 30 days to improve the defence infrastructure, also, unlike Mariupol, Donbas region is still opened. Which mean supply is going to flow thru. 

I mean if Russia cannot take Mariupol in the next couple of days, they virtually have no chance to take the entire Donbas in the whole 2022, or beyond. On the other hand, Ukrainian is starting to move over to Kherson, once they have retake Kherson (some report suggested part of Kherson is already in Ukrainian hand) that's more or less game over on Russian Southern attack, unless they fancy losing Crimea and have the entire south cut off....



mmr said:


> China is not that dumb to buy all its energy needs from russia. They will keep there energy sources diversified as much as possible to minimize the risk to its economy.


lol, probably not after they just see Russia blackmail the European in this war.

I mean, literally, Russia just burn their bridge on the European, and then turn around and say to the Chinese "Would you want a bite of that apple..." It may cost you some of your land.............lol

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## SuvarnaTeja

jhungary said:


> IS, not "was"
> 
> And judging the way and length the Russian took Mariupol (still has not fall on day 30), I really doubt Russia can do anything with the entire Donbas region. It's a lot better entrenched than the city, lay out with defensive network, plus you are giving the Ukrainian 30 days to improve the defence infrastructure, also, unlike Mariupol, Donbas region is still opened. Which mean supply is going to flow thru.
> 
> I mean if Russia cannot take Mariupol in the next couple of days, they virtually have no chance to take the entire Donbas in the whole 2022, or beyond. On the other hand, Ukrainian is starting to move over to Kherson, once they have retake Kherson (some report suggested part of Kherson is already in Ukrainian hand) that's more or less game over on Russian Southern attack, unless they fancy losing Crimea and have the entire south cut off....



Kherson has already fallen to Ukraine. 

Ukraine is now moving south to takeover Crimea.

France, Turkiye and Greece have sent ships into Black sea to support the Ukrainian Troops fighting the Southern front.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507411655390642177

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507414112321605632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507400322829930500


----------



## jhungary

Foinikas said:


> Well no NATO member decided to leave yet,that's why. Imagine if one of the eastern countries leaves NATO. Immediate intervention for regime change,riots,suddenly the economy goes bad etc.
> 
> In the case of Greece,they will use Turkey and in the case of Turkey,they will support and fund Greece.
> 
> In the case of Western and Central European countries,they will treat them just like they treated France with the submarine deals.
> 
> It's not easy leaving NATO. Americans won't allow it.


France seems to be able to do it.



SuvarnaTeja said:


> Kherson has already fallen to Ukraine.
> 
> Ukraine is now moving south to takeover Crimea.
> 
> France, Turkiye and Greece have sent ships into Black sea to support the Ukrainian Troops fighting the Southern front.


Kherson has not been retaken, there are no evidence to suggest that it did,


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507400327968006182

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507468738303561739


----------



## Meengla

zartosht said:


> You are assuming that Russia is trying to take every single place its troops get close to.
> 
> It is actually a brilliant strategy. By having forces near kiev, mariupol, kharkiv and donbass region. They force the ukies to commit huge portions of their army into defending everywhere from a potential attack. and prevents them from massing to defend a single area. and keeps them constantly guessing about Russias moves. and will be an absolute logistical nightmare.
> 
> They could be simply diversionary troops. its a pretty common tactic actually. And the Ukies might even be able to recapture a village here and there from these diversionary troops.
> 
> but in reality while everyone is fapping to CIA propaganda on twitter, Russia is getting very close to capturing a second major ukie city of mariupol along the black sea, and getting ever closer to landlocking ukraine. The west is even trying to evacuate its agents in some turk,greek,french civilian saving cover operation knowing the end is near



Interesting analysis. 
Making Ukraine a landlocked country even at the expense of several thousands Russian lives and able to fortify the gains along the coastal Ukraine and along the eastern Ukraine, even for a few hundred miles, would be major strategic gains for Russia. The Russian then would and should call a ceasefire on those gains without having to ask more from Ukraine except a pledge of neutrality.

And if Russia achieves those, sort of, minimal goals then I'd call Russia a winner with a very bloody nose. And I don't think any amount of sanctions would cripple Russia long term. Empires have been forged by shedding blood and, despite all the modern sensitivities, human beings are still the same primitive brutes. What gets established on the ground far outweighs a million social media victories.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507436353528770567

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507435268839727116

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507433340470759428
The West sold Ukraine and the price is weakening Russia.. You will not find a Western country that will defend the Ukrainian land, even if it is burned to the ground. They send weapons to weaken the Russians, in a comprehensive plan..

The West is acting in a stupid way, it has exhausted all sanctions against the Russians at once..

If Russia wiped out Ukraine with chemical weapons or other weapons, no one would interfere other than with statements and condemnations.. As any military intervention in any form means the outbreak of a nuclear war, and the Russians announced it explicitly from the beginning,,
And Europe will not enter a nuclear war or a devastating war for the sake of Ukraine..

After all these sanctions, Putin will not leave Ukraine, no matter what happens. He will swallow up the whole country.. or at least he will swallow it softly through negotiations by disarming it and having it recognizing Crimea and Donbass and establish a government loyal to Russia..

In general, the old world has ended..now the stage of alliances..the east with the alliance of Russia and China.. With the scuffing of two Indian legs.. a dangerous trio.. this means the era of unipolar western hegemony has ended completely over the world..!?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507522727552249856


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507435274787508230
😁


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507388218538397702😁


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507409695161696257

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507395543269580820

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507390761100353540


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507443458268667909

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507392062655811586

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507436869973430280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507396089179217930

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507339686498521150


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## Wood

Trango Towers said:


> But Russia will not stand for that. These are the foundations of a world war


I would have agreed to that before the current conflict. But now, I don't think Russia would feel confident about starting an offensive war with NATO given their performance in Ukraine.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507423352943783940

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507423125381824513


@AsharqNewsBrk

“*European Central Bank*”: We are working on a plan to convert the Ukrainian currency into the euro

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Rafi

SQ8 said:


> Happened in all refugee camps - be it Turkey, the mexican border.. all over. Where there is chaos there will be crime


True, over the years have heard some truly awful stories, one of the worst was what I heard from a Pakistani SpecOps guy who was on a course in Jordan.

He heard how regular Jordanians would ambush Syrian women going to the toilet at night rape them and also take them, never to be seen again by their families, the women without menfolk were the most vulnerable, even being attacked by fellow Syrians, human beings can be absolute scum sometimes.

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## Clutch

*In France you are only allowed to do Islamaphobic cartoons about The Prophet as did Charlie Habdo... But not one against the French government propaganda???...*


This Ukrainian war has exposed the Hypocrisy of the West bare naked.... For those who still have eyes that can see....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507396089179217930

Hypocrisy.... Western Freedom of Speech, as long as it's speech they agree to.

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## The SC

Rafi said:


> True, over the years have heard some truly awful stories, one of the worst was what I heard from a Pakistani SpecOps guy who was on a course in Jordan.
> 
> He heard how regular Jordanians would ambush Syrian women going to the toilet at night rape them and also take them, never to be seen again by their families, the women without menfolk were the most vulnerable, even being attacked by fellow Syrians, human beings can be absolute scum sometimes.



Overheard is not an accepted evidence in any countries' law..!

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## beast89

Dalit said:


> Why? Can't you handle it? When Russia gets on its knees come back and wake me up.
> 
> Your country India took a neutral stance and here you are trying your level best to prove your loyalty.



The west will make India pay for its neutral stance. One of the biggest losers from this war

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## CrazyZ

One big take away for tank design after this war is that ERA is not good against modern ATGM's. Slapping ERA on upgraded T-72's and expecting them to survive on the modern battle field is simply foolish.

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## Clutch

SaadH said:


> Well our establishment is dying to back into Western arms, hence manufacturing a coup against IK.



One of the fallout of the Ukraine-Russia conflict may be the Pakistani PTI government...

I agree. The only unknown variable is the China-Russia equation.

*Does China due to the Ukraine-Russia conflict:*

*China moves away from Russia ; or *
*China moves closer to Russia; or *
*China plays both sides and remain relatively neutral?*

*If it's option 1 & 3: *then the Pakistani establishment may be involved in or perhaps looks away as a "coup" or a Washington sponsored "bribe" brings down Imran Khan's government. The Pakistani establishment then puts the PTI option on ice to be used another day.

*If* *it's option 2*: I do not think the Pakistani establishment is not involved in the Imran Khan "coup" and will not want to destroy the Pakistan-China relationship in order to jump into the Western camp.

The West has shown that they are not interested in a relationship with Pakistan on equal footing. They look at India as their regional favorite. Pakistan is just their hired slaves to drone bomb Afghanistan and Pakistan itself. Pretty much like a prostitute.

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## The SC

beast89 said:


> The west will make India pay for its neutral stance. One of the biggest losers from this war


They will be very flexible with India.. remember that Biden administration said that their main target is China.. now they are just trying to weaken Russia as an intermediate phase..








US soldier in Ukraine as part of the International Paid Legion


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507374511846563855


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507412763530121216

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## sammuel

The SC said:


> The West sold Ukraine and the price is weakening Russia.. You will not find a Western country that will defend the Ukrainian land, even if it is burned to the ground.



Easy to criticize.

I would like to hear your idea about what the west should have done . Taking into account that if any of the NATO members got directly involved in the fighting we would have WW3 .


~

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507398390837092359

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507436353528770567
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507435268839727116
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507433340470759428
> The West sold Ukraine and the price is weakening Russia.. You will not find a Western country that will defend the Ukrainian land, even if it is burned to the ground. They send weapons to weaken the Russians, in a comprehensive plan..
> 
> The West is acting in a stupid way, it has exhausted all sanctions against the Russians at once..
> 
> If Russia wiped out Ukraine with chemical weapons or other weapons, no one would interfere other than with statements and condemnations.. As any military intervention in any form means the outbreak of a nuclear war, and the Russians announced it explicitly from the beginning,,
> And Europe will not enter a nuclear war or a devastating war for the sake of Ukraine..
> 
> After all these sanctions, Putin will not leave Ukraine, no matter what happens. He will swallow up the whole country.. or at least he will swallow it softly through negotiations by disarming it and having it recognizing Crimea and Donbass and establish a government loyal to Russia..
> 
> In general, the old world has ended..now the stage of alliances..the east with the alliance of Russia and China.. With the scuffing of two Indian legs.. a dangerous trio.. this means the era of unipolar western hegemony has ended completely over the world..!?


First of al, I am pretty sure if the west want to do nothing, they will do nothing, not with the training, not with the weapon, not with the sanction and not with anything.

Second of all, there are still a lot of sanction to be made, in fact, one has just approved by G7









Why the US and allies moved to freeze Russia’s gold


The restrictions aim to limit the country’s ability to use its international reserves and circumvent sanctions.




www.aljazeera.com





By the way, that further take Russia into the pocket as they can no longer trade their gold on any of the major market in the US, EU, and that would further hamper their effort to exchange foreign currency.

There are a lot of step on sanction that the west had not taken, that include general sanction (basically sanction everyone asset in the west) sanctioning the oil and gas industry, and also secondary sanction for people who try to circumvent Russian sanction.

On the other hand, this is a measure that force China to choose between continue doing business with the west, or go help Russia. As you cannot do both (You can, to a point subtlety) It is a lose-lose to China if they choose Russia over the west. Because the Chinese will lose the market connection to the west and they will also be sanctioned.

Militarily, it is not about whether or not Putin wanted to let go, it's about Ukrainian don't want Russia in their land, Russia cannot occupy the entire Ukraine with the number they have in Ukraine, and that is before the war and we all know how this went down. 30 days, not a single major city.....Which mean the more the Russia to pour into it, the more they lost, it's more or less the same on US with Afghanistan, US figured out in 20 years the more they pour into it only mean water go down in drain, on the other hand, US can afford all those waste, Russia cannot (I cannot imagine Russian have 20 trillions stashed somewhere to go over this in the next 20 years.)

At some point they are going to have to leave, because unless you kill everyone of the 45 million Ukrainian, they are going to fight you. It doesn't matter if this is today, tomorrow or 20 years down the road.

Russia has already lost this war by invading, anything the Ukrainian is giving to Russia is basically just a bonus...


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507107421935874057
Who Was Stepan Bandera?​https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/122778



jhungary said:


> First of al, I am pretty sure if the west want to do nothing, they will do nothing, not with the training, not with the weapon, not with the sanction and not with anything.
> 
> Second of all, there are still a lot of sanction to be made, in fact, one has just approved by G7


Well.. my friend.. sanctions are easily made.. but they will have to live with the real consequences too as the German chancellor said lately..


----------



## sammuel

dBSPL said:


> France summoned the Russian ambassador to foreign affairs because sharing this cartoons.
> 
> 
> “These cartoons are unacceptable,” the statement says.
> 
> But, once upon times, Macron said about Islamophobic cartoons, "Everything can be caricatured in France, this is our freedom of expression."



Caricatures are drown by artists and published by free media.

NOT by the state ,Russian embassy ( ie Putin ) . That is not called freedom of expression but state sponsored propaganda.

Are you able to tell the difference ?

Ahhh and they don't have free media in Russia.

~

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

important report:







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507397435450138627


----------



## khansaheeb

The Russian ship destroyed in Berdyansk was the "Saratov," says Ukraine


A month after Russia's invasion of Ukraine, its forces are being pushed back around Kyiv and are taking defensive positions northwest of the capital, a US official said. Follow here for live news updates.




www.cnn.com





15 hr 19 min ago
The Russian ship destroyed in Berdyansk was the "Saratov," says Ukraine​From CNN's Andrew Carey in Lviv 






In this satellite photo smoke rises after an attack that Ukraine's navy said sank a large Russian landing ship in the port city of Berdyansk, Ukraine, on March 24. (Planet Labs PBC/AP)



Ukrainian armed forces named the Russian landing ship they say they attacked and destroyed in Berdyansk as the "Saratov," in a statement on Friday. 
In earlier reporting, the ship was named as the "Orsk."
“In the Azov operational zone, according to updated information, a large landing ship 'Saratov' was destroyed during the attack on the occupied Berdyansk port," the statement said.
The statement identified the two other large landing ships -- the "Caesar Kunikov" and "Novocherkassk" -- that were also said to have been destroyed during the attack.
"Other losses of the enemy are being clarified," the statement said.
Ukrainian armed forces said they destroyed the large Russian landing ship at the port of Berdyansk in southern Ukraine on Thursday.
The port, which had recently been occupied by Russian forces with several Russian warships in dock, was rocked by a series of heavy explosions soon after dawn.
Social media videos showed fires raging at the dockside, with a series of secondary explosions reverberating across the city.
Several Russian ships had been unloading military equipment at Berdyansk in recent days, according to reports from the port by Russian media outlets.





14 hr 24 min ago
Russia claims its forces destroyed large fuel depot in Ukraine with cruise missiles​From CNN's Radina Gigova

Russian Ministry of Defense spokesman Igor Konashenkov claimed Friday that Russian forces destroyed "the largest of the remaining fuel depots" near Kyiv, with a strike carried out with sea-launched Kalibr cruise missiles. 
"On the evening of March 24, a strike was carried out with sea-launched Kalibr precision cruise missiles on a fuel base in Kalynovka, outside Kyiv," Konashenkov claimed. 
"The largest of the remaining fuel depot of the Ukrainian armed forces, which supplied fuel to military units in the central part of the country, was destroyed," Konashenkov added. 
CNN could not immediately verify that claim.
More details have emerged this week about the military arsenal that Russia is using in Ukraine. 
US President Joe Biden confirmed on Monday that Russia has also used hypersonic missiles in its invasion.
"And if you'll notice, (Russia has) just launched the hypersonic missile, because it's the only thing that they can get through with absolute certainty," Biden said. "It's a consequential weapon ... it's almost impossible to stop it. There's a reason they're using it."
But British intelligence and even Biden's own defense secretary have downplayed Russia's use of its air-launched Kinzhal missiles.
_CNN's Brad Lendon contributed reporting to this post._


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507335530844934144

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## dbc

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507398390837092359



so Putin is now saying Ukraine was planning to invade Russia so he preempted the attack and attacked Ukraine before Ukraine could attack Russia?

First it was protection of Russian speakers, followed by NATO, ...EU...then denazification, demilitarization...Ukraine is not a real country... and now Ukraine was about to conquer Russia. The guy is a couple of loose screws away from a straight jacket in Arkham.

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## The SC

Russia issues an arrest warrant for "George Soros," whom China calls a "global terrorist" and "the son of Satan."


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507398620924067842


dbc said:


> so Putin is now saying Ukraine was planning to invade Russia so he preempted the attack and attacked Ukraine before Ukraine could attack Russia?
> 
> First it was protection of Russian speakers, followed by NATO, ...EU...then denazification, demilitarization...Ukraine is not a real country... and now Ukraine was about to conquer Russia. The guy is a couple of loose screws away from a straight jacket in Arkham.



He said Donbas..a Russian majority speaking region in Ukraine.... not Russia..

@AJABreaking
Urgent | Ukrainian Foreign Minister: The Ukrainian language is the only state language and will remain so


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507389719755300897

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507390184849313797
@CHINA_NEWS4
Chinese official: Beijing knows where it stands and on whose side it stands, and it does not need Washington and the "NATO" countries to know where its interests lie.

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## jhungary

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507107421935874057
> Who Was Stepan Bandera?​https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/122778
> 
> 
> Well.. my friend.. sanctions are easily made.. but they will have to live with the real consequences too as the German chancellor said lately..


Well, that's actually what Putin is betting on before he start the invasion.

He is betting on it would be too complicated for the West to sanction him, and the west is going to let it go, if he is able to capture Kyiv in a lighting speed.

Problem is, it did not go that way. Another problem is, Europe, not US, is leading this sanction effort, in part because BOJO is sinking and he needed something to hold on in order to hold on to power. And Russia is giving BOJO this opportunities. US cant do much in sanction, first of all Russia economy is not really that big for US to sanction, as the old saying goes, you cannot bleed a rock dry. The stuff that Russia is selling is also what US is selling (Oil and Gas, Wheat, commodity and so on) which means that any sanction lay out from the US will not bite them back as bad as the European. So, other than the financial sanction (stopping Russia from using USD, stopping them swap gold with currency, any other sanction is not going to do much.

The $64,000 dollar question is, would sanction have any blow back on EU? Of course, but then the west is still doing them, that's telling you something. While I will concede that EU Is going to be a lot harder to sanction Russian oil and gas industry at this point, unlike US, Canada or Australia, who don't really buy Russian oil and gas, but that is just a matter of time, the important impact is EU decouple with Russia in term of their energy reliance. On the other hand, would China, after seeing this, will jump on board and replace 100% of their energy need from Russia? That is a very big strategic red flag, and I would be amaze to see China actually think this is a good idea after seeing how this mess up Europe.

But then Russia still invaded after we saw how US goes in Afghanistan, how themselves goes in Afghanistan, so maybe Chinese would also fail to learn nay lesson from this? I don't know, and honestly, I don't really care....

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506903640463843334

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507384761928589345

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## unrequitted_love_suzy

Russian influencers re-emerge from UAE, Egypt to dodge Instagram ban​








Russian influencers re-emerge from UAE, Egypt to dodge Instagram ban


DUBAI: Russia banned Facebook and Instagram earlier this month in a crackdown on the Western social media giants, describing the platforms’ parent company Meta as an “extremist” firm. “The activities of the Meta organization are directed against Russia and its armed forces,” Igor Kovalevsky, a...




www.arabnews.com

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## jhungary

dbc said:


> so Putin is now saying Ukraine was planning to invade Russia so he preempted the attack and attacked Ukraine before Ukraine could attack Russia?
> 
> First it was protection of Russian speakers, followed by NATO, ...EU...then denazification, demilitarization...Ukraine is not a real country... and now Ukraine was about to conquer Russia. The guy is a couple of loose screws away from a straight jacket in Arkham.


As a former cop myself, you can tell people BS from a mile. How you can do that?

If this is your original goal, you would said that it was that and then justify the action you have done. If I want to go to a store and buy a hot dog, I will say I want a hot dog, so I drove to the store. But the store is closed. So I don't get my hot dog. And bought a piece of pie instead

You know someone is lying when he started to use the action to justify the mean. I drove to the store, to get a hotdog, (Interrogative "But then why you did not have a hotdog in you hand instead of a pie?") Oh, because the stall was close and instead I get a pie from the store that was opened.

Not always the case, but this is a red flag.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507463707244253184


----------



## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> As a former cop myself, you can tell people BS from a mile. How you can do that?
> 
> If this is your original goal, you would said that it was that and then justify the action you have done. If I want to go to a store and buy a hot dog, I will say I want a hot dog, so I drove to the store. But the store is closed. So I don't get my hot dog. And bought a piece of pie instead
> 
> You know someone is lying when he started to use the action to justify the mean. I drove to the store, to get a hotdog, (Interrogative "But then why you did not have a hotdog in you hand instead of a pie?") Oh, because the stall was close and instead I get a pie from the store that was opened.
> 
> Not always the case, but this is a red flag.


What can you expect from people who said " We have no intention of invading Ukraine".


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506889979720617985

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## Oldman1

Foinikas said:


> Zelensky ordered a mobilization at the night of the second of fourth day,if I remember correctly. The Russians had on the borders for weeks,he kept complaining to the West that the Russians will invade...and he didn't even mobilize all the reserves.


Uh no, he told the Americans to stop telling the world that the Russians are going to invade. Its all over the news about that. As you pointed out, he mobilized the forces late.


----------



## DF41

EvoluXon said:


> No body is going to buy west propoganda anymore... Lots of deception and lies from ukraine . Next what? President Zelensky killed 10 russian general with one bullet ..


And magnificently presented to the world with Zelensky with his green screen. And scene below flashed out to emphasis Zelensky heroism . Instead of his hiding somewhere with this millions

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## Oldman1

8888888888888 said:


> Ukraine is mostly flat and it's winter, any recon drone can find where they are and call in troops.


Just cause its mostly flat does not mean the drones can find them. The country is too big to cover and there are many woods or forests to hide in besides towns, cities and villages. And you have anti tank missiles that can reach out far to hit them before they can see them. 















The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507398390837092359


LOL! Fortified areas is not the same as a large invasion force preparing to invade Crimea, compared to seeing a large Russian forces near Ukraine's border prior to invasion. They are reaching it beyond.


----------



## WotTen

Foinikas said:


> Well no NATO member decided to leave yet,that's why. Imagine if one of the eastern countries leaves NATO. Immediate intervention for regime change,riots,suddenly the economy goes bad etc.
> 
> In the case of Greece,they will use Turkey and in the case of Turkey,they will support and fund Greece.
> 
> In the case of Western and Central European countries,they will treat them just like they treated France with the submarine deals.
> 
> It's not easy leaving NATO. Americans won't allow it.



Given the total censorship and media control in this war on both sides, ordinary people are irrelevant and the Establishment is calling the shots.

How many Parisians want to be bombed to protect Estonia or Poland? Article 5 would not apply if the hostilities were started by a NATO country, but would the dissenters get a fair hearing in the Western media?

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## CrazyZ

Its been


sur said:


> This particular one is Ukrainian tank.
> There by indicating that your hero is probably just doing the *mopping*. And *lying *too.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507449859112116226
> 
> Your janitorial hero admitted himself:
> 
> View attachment 827441
> 
> 
> That begs the question about other 4-5 tanks he showed in his tweets as Russian.
> Since there was no marking clearly seen, it's more logical to assume they were also Ukrainian vehicles taken out by Rus.
> I'm happy your hero made you feel good with his lies.


Slat armor is not very effective against current gen ATGM's. Neither is ERA. Tank designers will have to sharpen their pencils and head back to the drawing boards. IMO, future tanks should prioritize passive armor against ATGM's.


----------



## WotTen

Schutz said:


> Russia completed its goals, if it's goals were doing nothing and turning Russian military into a joke.



Regardless of anything else in this war, the myth of the mighty Russian military has been destroyed.

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## dbc

The SC said:


> He said Donbas..a Russian majority speaking region in Ukraine.... not Russia..



check again your tweet says Crimea, which Russia annexed in 2014.


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## Oldman1

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507400326475055104
> This is very good development. These idiots can hopefully convince themselves of whatever BS they like and go out of occupied territories without more damage


Well as I have said before it was unrealistic expectations.

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## Foinikas

jhungary said:


> France seems to be able to do it.


I pointed that out in another post.


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## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> What can you expect from people who said " We have no intention of invading Ukraine".


Well, it's more than that. If you really read into the situation before and after the war. The complete picture is something like this

Before the war:

Russia : "We don't have plan to invade Ukraine, but let's talk about peace plan anyway."
Russia : "We have intention to pull the troop once the exercise is over
Russia : "We recognize the independence of DNR and LPR"

Immediately after the war

Russia : "We have started a special military operation to demilitarize and denaizify Ukraine"
Russia : "Ukraine have been genociding the ethnic Russian in Donbas"
Russia : "We have no interest in talking about peace plan"

Now

Russia :"We have no intention to attack and occupy any Ukrainian City (Strange because they did occupy 2, Kherson and Melitopol)



CrazyZ said:


> Its been
> 
> Slat armor is not very effective against current gen ATGM's. Neither is ERA. Tank designers will have to sharpen their pencils and head back to the drawing boards. IMO, future tanks should prioritize passive armor against ATGM's.


It REALLY depends on how you use the tank and how you use those ATGM.

If you do what the Russian do, which is don't bother to run any infantry screen in front of on top of the column, whichever country did that would have the same result. You are effectively allowing your enemy to ambush without you seeing it, and inside that tank, you cant see shit.

From all the footage I saw on how Russian run their Armor, that can be made in a compilation video title "How not to run your armor in modern warfare" I don't see any unit coherent, I don't see dismounted infantry, I don't see overhead gunship accompanied the armor. I mean, it would be stupid not to expect your armor are going to cut to piece if you do stuff like this, sort of like how are you going to expect anything is going to be different? As that is the only logical outcome. 

On the other hand, Ukrainian have used their knowledge of their own land pretty well, and the excellent use of cover vs concealment is the key to how those Russian Armor getting cut to ribbon.

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## Oldman1

zartosht said:


> You are assuming that Russia is trying to take every single place its troops get close to.
> 
> It is actually a brilliant strategy. By having forces near kiev, mariupol, kharkiv and donbass region. They force the ukies to commit huge portions of their army into defending everywhere from a potential attack. and prevents them from massing to defend a single area. and keeps them constantly guessing about Russias moves. and will be an absolute logistical nightmare.
> 
> They could be simply diversionary troops. its a pretty common tactic actually. And the Ukies might even be able to recapture a village here and there from these diversionary troops.
> 
> but in reality while everyone is fapping to CIA propaganda on twitter, Russia is getting very close to capturing a second major ukie city of mariupol along the black sea, and getting ever closer to landlocking ukraine. The west is even trying to evacuate its agents in some turk,greek,french civilian saving cover operation knowing the end is near


No, its a bad strategy because there is still a large Ukrainian force there, they haven't gone far pushing through to take Donbas, why else would they have to say oh we are going to stage 2, focusing on Donbas now. Did they failed their objective not taking over Donbas the last month if it was true? Wouldn't that be the first and primary stage objective? No its just a cover up for their failures to take Kiev and the rest of the major cities. They just don't have the manpower or resources to do it. They really don't. You see them trying to encircle the cities but failing, try to get to Odessa but failed, so they have to try to consolidate any gains they made.



Meengla said:


> Interesting analysis.
> Making Ukraine a landlocked country even at the expense of several thousands Russian lives and able to fortify the gains along the coastal Ukraine and along the eastern Ukraine, even for a few hundred miles, would be major strategic gains for Russia. The Russian then would and should call a ceasefire on those gains without having to ask more from Ukraine except a pledge of neutrality.
> 
> And if Russia achieves those, sort of, minimal goals then I'd call Russia a winner with a very bloody nose. And I don't think any amount of sanctions would cripple Russia long term. Empires have been forged by shedding blood and, despite all the modern sensitivities, human beings are still the same primitive brutes. What gets established on the ground far outweighs a million social media victories.


They can't even take Odessa. You want to landlock Ukraine, you have to take Odessa. Look at the map, you think Russia going to try after failing that?


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## Oldman1

Foinikas said:


> I agree with you on that. I don't understand why they proclaimed it independent and recognized it and they invaded 2 days later. What was the reason? Why? What for? Why bother recognize it if you are going to invade anyway?


Its an excuse for Russia to invade Ukraine under the guise of protecting the newly independent countries which if it still stands, be annexed by Russia later on. Just more justifications to try to conquer Ukraine. You already see it on the news, Secret plans by Ukraine to invade Crimea, biological weapons, protecting the Russian speaking people, Nazis, NATO, etc.


----------



## Viet

Ich said:


> The best what is projected is 3-5 years for all the LNG-terminals. But i doubt it. Do you know how long it needed to build the new Berlin airport? Here you go.
> 
> Also a LNG-tanker isnt build in days. At the moment all LNG-tankers in the world are in use, And there are estimates that for Germany alone are 660 LNG-tankers needed - around the clock - to replace russian gas. Let alone the masses LNG-tankers for whole EU.


Well giving up domestic nuclear, coal may be not the brightest idea on earth.

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## sammuel

~

Putin's lying again to his people.

Does he think all Russians are just idiots or completely cut off from the world like in the soviet era , that they don't know what is happening outside Russia ?

Just to make it clear.

No , no Russian authors where banned in the west . Orchestras in the west have no intention to stop playing music of Russian composers like Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninoff ( what serious orchestra would do something like that ? ? ? )

And no , J .K Rowling is NOT " canceled " , in fact the new movie ,Fantastic Beasts: The Secrets of Dumbledore , is about to come out this year.










I have only two words to say to you Mr. Putin :


*Expecto patronum !*










~

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## Trango Towers

Wood said:


> I would have agreed to that before the current conflict. But now, I don't think Russia would feel confident about starting an offensive war with NATO given their performance in Ukraine.


I understand your feelings and I agree. The days of when you can walk into a country and occupy are long gone. Even if Ukraine had not recieves 1000s of javelin and NLAW missiles the resistance would have been good. Other examples include Afghanistan and Iraq. However, its the nukes that save Russia. Even if it starts a ground war the threat of MAD will prevent an all out NATO Russia conflict

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## Viet

Putin’s army has taken Mariupol yet?


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## Oldman1

Viet said:


> Putin’s army has taken Mariupol yet?


Fighting still ongoing.


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## Trango Towers

The SC said:


> They will be very flexible with India.. remember that Biden administration said that their main target is China.. now they are just trying to weaken Russia as an intermediate phase..
> 
> View attachment 827416
> 
> 
> 
> US soldier in Ukraine as part of the International Paid Legion
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507374511846563855


Oh imagine they catch some yanks ...


----------



## Viet

Oldman1 said:


> Fighting still ongoing.


embarrassing for Russia army.
more sanctions. It’s harder now for Putin to sell gold.









Why the US and allies moved to freeze Russia’s gold


The restrictions aim to limit the country’s ability to use its international reserves and circumvent sanctions.




www.aljazeera.com

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## WotTen

sammuel said:


> Orchestras in the west have no intention to stop playing music of Russian composers like Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninoff ( what serious orchestra would do something like that ? ? ? )











Cardiff Philharmonic removes Tchaikovsky performance over Ukraine conflict


Orchestra faces ridicule over decision to remove Tchaikovsky’s 1812 overture




www.theguardian.com


----------



## Trango Towers

The SC said:


> important report:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507397435450138627


Why are Russians wearing their ranks when Ukrainians are picking them off ?


----------



## Oldman1

Trango Towers said:


> Why are Russians wearing their ranks when Ukrainians are picking them off ?


Cause it makes them feel important.


----------



## sammuel

WotTen said:


> Cardiff Philharmonic removes Tchaikovsky performance over Ukraine conflict
> 
> 
> Orchestra faces ridicule over decision to remove Tchaikovsky’s 1812 overture
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com




Had nothing to do with Tchaikovsky being Russian but with this particular piece

In fact, three concerts by cardiff philharmonic this year , will include work by Russian composers, including Sergei Prokofiev and Sergei Rachmaninoff.

it was thought inappropriate at the present time, given that this piece is military themed and they come with the sound of a volley of cannon fire.

Listen 15:05 and you will understand why :







~

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## Oldman1




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## khansaheeb




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## WotTen

sammuel said:


> Had nothing to do with Tchaikovsky being Russian but with this particular piece
> 
> In fact, three concerts by cardiff philharmonic this year , will include work by Russian composers, including Sergei Prokofiev and Sergei Rachmaninoff.
> 
> it was thought inappropriate at the present time, given that this piece are military themed and they come with the sound of a volley of cannon fire.
> 
> Listen 15:05 and you will understand why :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~



So they couldn't have played anything else by Tchaikovsky?
The only reason they will play the other Russian composers is because they were ridiculed for their decision.


----------



## Viet

Where are Shoigu and Gerasimov?
The architects of the war. Still there or in a Soviet gulag?


----------



## Dalit

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> Putin's lying again to his people.
> 
> Does he think all Russians are just idiots or completely cut off from the world like in the soviet era , that they don't know what is happening outside Russia ?
> 
> Just to make it clear.
> 
> No , no Russian authors where banned in the west . Orchestras in the west have no intention to stop playing music of Russian composers like Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninoff ( what serious orchestra would do something like that ? ? ? )
> 
> And no , J .K Rowling is NOT " canceled " , in fact the new movie ,Fantastic Beasts: The Secrets of Dumbledore , is about to come out this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have only two words to say to you Mr. Putin :
> 
> 
> *Expecto patronum !*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~



LOL it is a joy to see you in such panick mode. How the tables have turned.

Often Muslims were accused by the same members in this topic for having a victim mentality and what not. Today the pleading and non-stop craving hasn't gone unnoticed in this specific topic.

Didn't members here used to taunt with you reap what you sow? Just look at them now.



The SC said:


> They will be very flexible with India.. remember that Biden administration said that their main target is China.. now they are just trying to weaken Russia as an intermediate phase..
> 
> View attachment 827416
> 
> 
> 
> US soldier in Ukraine as part of the International Paid Legion
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507374511846563855



Looks like Cold War Jihad is halal all over again. It is ridiculous how these Western mercenary fanatics are dying to fight in Ukraine.

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## Dalit

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506889979720617985



The reality on the ground. Nevertheless, the Western bloc is already taking measures to decrease dependence on Russian oil and gas. This will take years before the dependence has truly decreased substantially.

What we will see is more cooperation among regional actors now. Russia is going to concentrate on working with China, Iran, Central Asian republics, Pakistan and other regional nations. I think along with China, Russia has every stake to rejuvenate regional trade and cooperation. Russia had a very luxurious position before the Ukraine war. It was picking and choosing trading partners of its liking. It was selling its oil and gas to almost every nation of its liking. That luxury has ended after Ukraine war. Russian Western romance is over. Not necessarily bad news for the region. Russian focus towards regional trade bloc is obviously beneficial for the region.

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## Piotr

zartosht said:


> got to give the Americans credit where credit is due though...
> 
> At a time when europe was finally starting to see the US for the parasitic entity it was. and how it was at a minimum a competitor with even macron explecitly saying it when trump was bullying euro countries and treating them like colored people...
> 
> They have succesfully fooled the euros into sacrificing their economies, security, and social fabric to advance american geopolitical interests. its the euros who will be suffering from the consequences of this war, not the americans.
> 
> Say what you want about american neocons and their "we lied,stole cheated" ideology. Its much superior to whatever the euro sissies have got going on. getting manipulated by washington as a disposable tool.. pathetic.



That's right. USA won, the EU lost.
A few years ago there was a concept of Europe from Lisbon to Vladivostok. Europe from Lisbon to Vladivostok would have bigger potential than USA. So USA did everything to sabotage this concept. To sabotage cooperation between the EU countries and Russia USA founded Banderites coup against democratically elected President of the Ukraine Yanukovych. And USA succeded in sabotaging concept of Europe from Lisbon to Vladivostok.

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## Ich

Viet said:


> Well giving up domestic nuclear, coal may be not the brightest idea on earth.


Yes, but coal isnt the best option. Germany was on the way to hydrogen economy 25 years ago. But then in 1998 the idiots take over.

Also the "gas deal" with Quatar is still propaganda at the moment. Cause Quatar says: "Gas deliveries will not happen soon". And this is NOT bad will from Quatar. There are just no gas-tankers to do it.

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## LeGenD

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506903640463843334
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507384761928589345



What have Chechens achieved in Ukraine besides Photo-Op sessions?









What role is Chechnya’s Ramzan Kadyrov playing in Ukraine war?


Chechen forces deployed in Ukraine appear to be more of a ‘PR initiative’ than military utility, analysts say.




www.aljazeera.com





True warriors of both Ukraine and Russia are not into Photo-Op sessions.

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## sammuel

WotTen said:


> So they couldn't have played anything else by Tchaikovsky?
> The only reason they will play the other Russian composers is because they were ridiculed for their decision.



Have you even bothered listening to the 1812 Overture I attached ?

I doubt that , otherwise you would not make this comment.

Philharmonic schedule are made months in advance , it is not something you pull of your sleeve.

You know they say that God gave each of us two ears but only one mouth. And the reason is that we should listen twice as much as we speak !

Do try to listen this time , i am sure you would figure it out eventually :


*Minute 10:00*







~

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## Piotr

LeGenD said:


> What have Chechens achieved in Ukraine besides Photo-Op sessions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What role is Chechnya’s Ramzan Kadyrov playing in Ukraine war?
> 
> 
> Chechen forces deployed in Ukraine appear to be more of a ‘PR initiative’ than military utility, analysts say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True warriors of both Ukraine and Russia are not into Photo-Op sessions.



Russian forcies (including that from Chechnya) managed to prevent Bandera forces from attacking Donbass Republics. Massive Bandera attack against Donbass Republics was planed for March.
Russian forcies managed to stop US development of nuclear and biological weapons in the territory of the Ukraine.
Russian forcies managed to destroy or incapacitate most of Bandera forcies.
Bear in mind that regime in Kiev declared Bandera "Hero of Ukraine". There are monuments dedicated to this genocidial chauvinist in the Ukraine.

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## LeGenD

Piotr said:


> Russian forcies (including that from Chechnya) managed to prevent Bandera forces from attacking Donbass Republics. Massive Bandera attack against Donbass Republics was planed for March.
> Russian forcies managed to stop US development of nuclear and biologicas weapons in the territory of the Ukraine.
> Russian forcies managed to destroy or incapacitate most of Bandera forcies.
> Bear in mind that regime in Kiev declared Bandera "Hero of Ukraine". They are monuments dedicated to this genocidial chauvinist in the Ukraine.



You failed to address my point and observation. 

Chechens = Russian PR initiative as noted in the article shared by me.

True warriors of both Ukraine and Russia are not into Photo-Op sessions.

*US-FUNDED BIOWEAPONS PROGRAM IN UKRAINE?*

Short answer: PROPAGANDA









Social Media Posts Misrepresent U.S.-Ukraine Threat Reduction Program - FactCheck.org


The U.S. Department of Defense's Biological Threat Reduction Program has provided technical support to improve and protect Ukraine's public health laboratories. Social media posts, however, falsely claim the program created "bioweapons labs" that are being targeted by Russian forces as part of...




www.factcheck.org













PolitiFact - China repeats false claim that U.S has biolabs in Ukraine


China’s government is amplifying debunked claims about non-existent U.S. biological weapons labs in Ukraine, bringing th




www.politifact.com













Fact Check: No, There Are No U.S.-Funded Bioweapons Labs in Ukraine


False claims are going viral on social media.




factcheck.thedispatch.com













Russia Makes Crazy Claim That U.S. Is Training Birds To Spread A Ukrainian Bioweapon (Updated)


The Kremlin appears to be ramping up its disinformation campaign to a totally absurd degree as the conflict in Ukraine drags on.




www.thedrive.com













EXCLUSIVE WHO says it advised Ukraine to destroy pathogens in health labs to prevent disease spread


The World Health Organization advised Ukraine to destroy high-threat pathogens housed in the country's public health laboratories to prevent "any potential spills" that would spread disease among the population, the agency told Reuters.




www.reuters.com


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## bobo6661

Piotr said:


> Russian forcies (including that from Chechnya) managed to prevent Bandera forces from attacking Donbass Republics. Massive Bandera attack against Donbass Republics was planed for March.
> Russian forcies managed to stop US development of nuclear and biological weapons in the territory of the Ukraine.
> Russian forcies managed to destroy or incapacitate most of Bandera forcies.
> Bear in mind that regime in Kiev declared Bandera "Hero of Ukraine". There are monuments dedicated to this genocidial chauvinist in the Ukraine.


Say that to russia and stalin lovers there  he is basicly a hero there and he was genocidal to 😂

We should invade russia and clean it from rest of stalin shitz


----------



## Foinikas

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> Putin's lying again to his people.
> 
> Does he think all Russians are just idiots or completely cut off from the world like in the soviet era , that they don't know what is happening outside Russia ?
> 
> Just to make it clear.
> 
> No , no Russian authors where banned in the west . Orchestras in the west have no intention to stop playing music of Russian composers like Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninoff ( what serious orchestra would do something like that ? ? ? )
> 
> And no , J .K Rowling is NOT " canceled " , in fact the new movie ,Fantastic Beasts: The Secrets of Dumbledore , is about to come out this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have only two words to say to you Mr. Putin :
> 
> 
> *Expecto patronum !*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~



Ok...


View attachment 827522


----------



## Piotr

LeGenD said:


> You failed to address my point and observation.
> 
> Chechens = Russian PR initiative as noted in the article shared by me.
> 
> True warriors of both Ukraine and Russia are not into Photo-Op sessions.



AFAIK units from Chechnya are active in cleaning Mariupol from Banderites.



LeGenD said:


> *US-FUNDED BIOWEAPONS PROGRAM IN UKRAINE?*
> 
> Short answer: PROPAGANDA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Social Media Posts Misrepresent U.S.-Ukraine Threat Reduction Program - FactCheck.org
> 
> 
> The U.S. Department of Defense's Biological Threat Reduction Program has provided technical support to improve and protect Ukraine's public health laboratories. Social media posts, however, falsely claim the program created "bioweapons labs" that are being targeted by Russian forces as part of...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.factcheck.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PolitiFact - China repeats false claim that U.S has biolabs in Ukraine
> 
> 
> China’s government is amplifying debunked claims about non-existent U.S. biological weapons labs in Ukraine, bringing th
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.politifact.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fact Check: No, There Are No U.S.-Funded Bioweapons Labs in Ukraine
> 
> 
> False claims are going viral on social media.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> factcheck.thedispatch.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Makes Crazy Claim That U.S. Is Training Birds To Spread A Ukrainian Bioweapon (Updated)
> 
> 
> The Kremlin appears to be ramping up its disinformation campaign to a totally absurd degree as the conflict in Ukraine drags on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCLUSIVE WHO says it advised Ukraine to destroy pathogens in health labs to prevent disease spread
> 
> 
> The World Health Organization advised Ukraine to destroy high-threat pathogens housed in the country's public health laboratories to prevent "any potential spills" that would spread disease among the population, the agency told Reuters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com



Facts:





At least you don't deny that USA was developing nuclear weapons in the Ukraine.



bobo6661 said:


> Say that to russia and stalin lovers there  he is basicly a hero there and he was genocidal to 😂
> 
> We should invade russia and clean it from rest of stalin shitz



Russia did not declared Stalin as a hero. On the contrary:
Putin opens monument to Stalin's victims​

Reactions: Like Like:
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## DF41

LeGenD said:


> You failed to address my point and observation.
> 
> Chechens = Russian PR initiative as noted in the article shared by me.
> 
> True warriors of both Ukraine and Russia are not into Photo-Op sessions.
> 
> *US-FUNDED BIOWEAPONS PROGRAM IN UKRAINE?*
> 
> Short answer: PROPAGANDA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Social Media Posts Misrepresent U.S.-Ukraine Threat Reduction Program - FactCheck.org
> 
> 
> The U.S. Department of Defense's Biological Threat Reduction Program has provided technical support to improve and protect Ukraine's public health laboratories. Social media posts, however, falsely claim the program created "bioweapons labs" that are being targeted by Russian forces as part of...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.factcheck.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PolitiFact - China repeats false claim that U.S has biolabs in Ukraine
> 
> 
> China’s government is amplifying debunked claims about non-existent U.S. biological weapons labs in Ukraine, bringing th
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.politifact.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fact Check: No, There Are No U.S.-Funded Bioweapons Labs in Ukraine
> 
> 
> False claims are going viral on social media.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> factcheck.thedispatch.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Makes Crazy Claim That U.S. Is Training Birds To Spread A Ukrainian Bioweapon (Updated)
> 
> 
> The Kremlin appears to be ramping up its disinformation campaign to a totally absurd degree as the conflict in Ukraine drags on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCLUSIVE WHO says it advised Ukraine to destroy pathogens in health labs to prevent disease spread
> 
> 
> The World Health Organization advised Ukraine to destroy high-threat pathogens housed in the country's public health laboratories to prevent "any potential spills" that would spread disease among the population, the agency told Reuters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com




How about this report then

Finally a respectable MSM in NZ has reported that Hunter Biden plays a major role in Ukraine Biolabs!! 









Hunter Biden biolab revelations: The beginning of the end for the west's fake Ukrainian narrative - Daily Telegraph NZ


Documents linking Hunter Biden to secret Ukrainian biolabs revealed, exposing further the west's fake narrative on the Russian military operation.




dailytelegraph.co.nz





I very wary of trying to wake up someone who pretending to sleep.

Such kind of folks can get exceedinly annoyed and angry.

Especially when invested with great powers and very angry when their views are not worshipped and hosannas sang to their brand of wisdom

Reactions: Like Like:
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## bobo6661

Piotr said:


> Russia did not declared Stalin as a hero. On the contrary:
> Putin opens monument to Stalin's victims​











Vladimir Putin’s Russia is rehabilitating Stalin. We must not let it happen | Irina Sherbakova


Artefacts from Stalin’s brutal reign give the lie to Putin’s vision of a ‘heroic’ Soviet past, says author and historian Irina Sherbakova




www.theguardian.com













Stalin Gaining Popularity in Putin’s Russia


Former Soviet leader increasingly praised as man who brought unity, empire and victory to Russia, an image that, analysts, say Putin would like to share




www.voanews.com













As Confederate statues fall in U.S., Russians are erecting statues for dictator Stalin


On the 80th anniversary of Stalin's 'Great Terror' purge, the late Soviet dictator is being hailed as a national icon who defeated the Nazis.



eu.usatoday.com


----------



## Piotr

bobo6661 said:


> Vladimir Putin’s Russia is rehabilitating Stalin. We must not let it happen | Irina Sherbakova
> 
> 
> Artefacts from Stalin’s brutal reign give the lie to Putin’s vision of a ‘heroic’ Soviet past, says author and historian Irina Sherbakova
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stalin Gaining Popularity in Putin’s Russia
> 
> 
> Former Soviet leader increasingly praised as man who brought unity, empire and victory to Russia, an image that, analysts, say Putin would like to share
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.voanews.com



There are some Russians that like Stalin just like there are some English that like Churchill. Both Stalin and Churchill killed a lot o people. Churchill comitted genocide in Bengal and he is praised by the State in England. Stalin is not praised by Russian State.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## bobo6661

Piotr said:


> There are some Russians that like Stalin just like there are some English that like Churchill. Both Stalin and Churchill killed a lot o people. Churchill comitted genocide in Bengal and he is praised by the State in England. Stalin is not praised by Russian State.











Stalin’s Approval Rating Among Russians Hits Record High – Poll - The Moscow Times


A record 70 percent of Russians approve of Soviet leader Josef Stalin’s role in Russian history, according to a poll published by the independent Levada Center pollster on Tuesday.




www.themoscowtimes.com





A record 70 percent of Russians approve of Soviet leader Josef Stalin’s role in Russian history, according to a poll published by the independent Levada Center pollster on Tuesday.


----------



## LeGenD

Piotr said:


> AFAIK units from Chechnya are active in cleaning Mariupol from Banderites.
> 
> 
> 
> Facts:
> View attachment 827527
> 
> 
> At least you don't deny that USA was developing nuclear weapons in the Ukraine.



All foxes can bite when moving in a PACK. This is the situation of Chechens in Mariupol - they can bite with Russian army providing cover and support.

Mariupul is a small city of just 400,000 people and it could not be secured in 30 days; I am not impressed.

Facts? Let us see.

_A Twitter user by the handle @WarClandestine spread a story on Feb. 24 that Russia was targeting the sites of U.S.-run biolabs when it began invading Ukraine. That account was quickly suspended by Twitter, but others shared the post and began using the hashtag #USbiolabs to spread the false claim.

There are no U.S. military-run labs in Ukraine, said Andy Weber, a member of the Arms Control Association Board of Directors and a former assistant secretary of defense for nuclear, chemical, and biological defense programs.

"Rather, the U.S. Department of Defense Cooperative Threat Reduction Program has provided technical support to the Ukrainian Ministry of Health since 2005 to improve public health laboratories, whose mission is analogous to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention," Weber told PolitiFact. 

"These laboratories have recently played an important role in stopping the spread of COVID-19," he added.

The Cooperative Threat Reduction Program began after the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991 to reduce the threat of existing weapons of mass destruction. It is also known as the Nunn-Lugar Program (named after the senators who passed the Soviet Threat Reduction Act) and is housed within the Defense Department’s Defense Threat Reduction Agency, according to the Center for Arms Control and Non-proliferation.

False allegations about biolabs, though, are so prevalent that the Defense Threat Reduction Agency released a video on Jan. 11 to counter them and explain what the Cooperative Threat Reduction Program does. In it, Chris Park, a State Department official, spoke at the United Nations to respond to allegations from China and Russia about "suspicious activity" at laboratories in the region. He called the claims "pure disinformation."_









PolitiFact - There are no US-run biolabs in Ukraine, contrary to social media posts


Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has brought false claims on social media that Russian President Vladimir Putin is targeting




www.politifact.com





_"The United States does not own or control any “biolabs” in Ukraine and any funding from the Cooperative Biological Engagement Program under the Cooperative Threat Reduction program (also known as the Nunn-Lugar program) serves to invest in the the security of the facilities and help ensure that skilled scientists work on useful projects and not poached to help WMD programs in rogue nations. 

The rumor originated from a misinterpretation of a 2005 agreement between the U.S. and Ukraine: “Concerning Cooperation in the Area of Prevention of Proliferation of Technology, Pathogens and Expertise that could be Used in the Development of Biological Weapons.” For years Russia has alleged that American involvement in securing labs in former Soviet states is part of a massive conspiracy to develop biological weapons, in violation of the Biological Weapons Convention.

In an April 2020 statement, the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine clarified the U.S.-Ukrainian partnership in an effort “to set the record straight regarding disinformation” on what is described as a “strong U.S.-Ukrainian partnership to reduce biological threats.” The statement explained that the U.S. Ukraine partnership is part of the Biological Threat Reduction Program, which “works with the Ukrainian Government to consolidate and secure pathogens and toxins of security concern in Ukrainian government facilities, while allowing for peaceful research and vaccine development.

The Russian campaign is not limited to Ukraine. There were similar accusations made about the U.S.-funded Richard Lugar Center for Public Health Research in Tbilisi, Georgia, that spread during the Trump administration as well. According to reporting from the Associated Press, Russia’s Defense Ministry accused the U.S. of running a biological weapon lab in Georgia. The allegation more specifically, according to the AP, was that the lab in Georgia “was part of a network of U.S. labs near the borders of Russia and China.”_









Fact Check: No, There Are No U.S.-Funded Bioweapons Labs in Ukraine


False claims are going viral on social media.




factcheck.thedispatch.com







DF41 said:


> How about this report then
> 
> Finally a respectable MSM in NZ has reported that Hunter Biden plays a major role in Ukraine Biolabs!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hunter Biden biolab revelations: The beginning of the end for the west's fake Ukrainian narrative - Daily Telegraph NZ
> 
> 
> Documents linking Hunter Biden to secret Ukrainian biolabs revealed, exposing further the west's fake narrative on the Russian military operation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dailytelegraph.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I very wary of trying to wake up someone who pretending to sleep.
> 
> Such kind of folks can get exceedinly annoyed and angry.
> 
> Especially when invested with great powers and very angry when their views are not worshipped and hosannas sang to their brand of wisdom



See above.

The link you shared does not refute anything.

_Today, Metabiota, the pioneer in epidemic risk modeling, announced it has been awarded a subcontract from Black & Veatch (B&V) to support the U.S. Defense Threat Reduction Agency’s (DTRA) Cooperative Biological Engagement Program (CBEP) in Iraq under the Biological Threat Reduction Integrating Contract (BTRIC). Metabiota has also partnered with B&V on DTRA’s recently awarded Cooperative Threat Reduction Integrating Contract (CTRIC) III with an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (ID/IQ) contract ceiling of $970M._

It reiterates the obvious with gross misinterpretation of these developments.

Some of the members here are so aloof to MEDICAL SCIENCES PRACTICES worldwide. You should visit an institute of virology near your location to get some perspective.


----------



## Skull and Bones

jamahir said:


> So why can't those modern vacuum channel transistors not be used in regular computers ?



I can writes pages on this issue, interestingly our lab proposed the idea of ‘nano vacuum channel transistors, using the principle of cold emission of electrons’ to DARPA. Didn’t get funding eventually, after working on it for 7 months.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Piotr

bobo6661 said:


> Stalin’s Approval Rating Among Russians Hits Record High – Poll - The Moscow Times
> 
> 
> A record 70 percent of Russians approve of Soviet leader Josef Stalin’s role in Russian history, according to a poll published by the independent Levada Center pollster on Tuesday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.themoscowtimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A record 70 percent of Russians approve of Soviet leader Josef Stalin’s role in Russian history, according to a poll published by the independent Levada Center pollster on Tuesday.



Ask how many Anglos approve Churchill. Churchill was actually worse than Stalin.

Soviet Union under Stalin won war against Nazi Germany. Do you expect the Russians to be ashamed of this win ?
Stalin did bad things but he also did good things. Soviet Union under his reign become superpower and was first to send a man to the space.


----------



## bobo6661

Piotr said:


> Ask how many Anglos approve Churchill. Churchill was actually worse than Stalin.
> 
> Soviet Union under Stalin won war against Nazi Germany. Do you expect the Russians to be ashamed of this win ?
> Stalin did bad things but he also did good things. Soviet Union under his reign become superpower and was first to send a man to the space.


And bandera is their symbol of fighting against soviets ... They take a blind eye for what he did like russians for stalin and bandera became more popular to guess when? when russia started annexing ukraine


----------



## Piotr

LeGenD said:


> All foxes can bite when moving in a PACK. This is the situation of Chechens in Mariupol - they can bite with Russian army providing cover and support.



Of course Russia send Chechens with cover and support. Nothing wrong with that.



LeGenD said:


> Mariupul is a small city of just 400,000 people and it could not be secured in 30 days; I am not impressed.



The problem is that Banderites are using civilians as human shields and Russia want as little civilian casualities as possible. It would be no problem for Russia to destroy Mariupol like USA destroyed Fallujah. But Russia is not USA. Russia does not want to turn Mariupol into Fallujah.



LeGenD said:


> Facts? Let us see.
> 
> _A Twitter user by the handle @WarClandestine spread a story on Feb. 24 that Russia was targeting the sites of U.S.-run biolabs when it began invading Ukraine. That account was quickly suspended by Twitter, but others shared the post and began using the hashtag #USbiolabs to spread the false claim.
> 
> There are no U.S. military-run labs in Ukraine, said Andy Weber, a member of the Arms Control Association Board of Directors and a former assistant secretary of defense for nuclear, chemical, and biological defense programs.
> 
> "Rather, the U.S. Department of Defense Cooperative Threat Reduction Program has provided technical support to the Ukrainian Ministry of Health since 2005 to improve public health laboratories, whose mission is analogous to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention," Weber told PolitiFact.
> 
> "These laboratories have recently played an important role in stopping the spread of COVID-19," he added.
> 
> The Cooperative Threat Reduction Program began after the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991 to reduce the threat of existing weapons of mass destruction. It is also known as the Nunn-Lugar Program (named after the senators who passed the Soviet Threat Reduction Act) and is housed within the Defense Department’s Defense Threat Reduction Agency, according to the Center for Arms Control and Non-proliferation.
> 
> False allegations about biolabs, though, are so prevalent that the Defense Threat Reduction Agency released a video on Jan. 11 to counter them and explain what the Cooperative Threat Reduction Program does. In it, Chris Park, a State Department official, spoke at the United Nations to respond to allegations from China and Russia about "suspicious activity" at laboratories in the region. He called the claims "pure disinformation."_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PolitiFact - There are no US-run biolabs in Ukraine, contrary to social media posts
> 
> 
> Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has brought false claims on social media that Russian President Vladimir Putin is targeting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.politifact.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _"The United States does not own or control any “biolabs” in Ukraine and any funding from the Cooperative Biological Engagement Program under the Cooperative Threat Reduction program (also known as the Nunn-Lugar program) serves to invest in the the security of the facilities and help ensure that skilled scientists work on useful projects and not poached to help WMD programs in rogue nations.
> 
> The rumor originated from a misinterpretation of a 2005 agreement between the U.S. and Ukraine: “Concerning Cooperation in the Area of Prevention of Proliferation of Technology, Pathogens and Expertise that could be Used in the Development of Biological Weapons.” For years Russia has alleged that American involvement in securing labs in former Soviet states is part of a massive conspiracy to develop biological weapons, in violation of the Biological Weapons Convention.
> 
> In an April 2020 statement, the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine clarified the U.S.-Ukrainian partnership in an effort “to set the record straight regarding disinformation” on what is described as a “strong U.S.-Ukrainian partnership to reduce biological threats.” The statement explained that the U.S. Ukraine partnership is part of the Biological Threat Reduction Program, which “works with the Ukrainian Government to consolidate and secure pathogens and toxins of security concern in Ukrainian government facilities, while allowing for peaceful research and vaccine development.
> 
> The Russian campaign is not limited to Ukraine. There were similar accusations made about the U.S.-funded Richard Lugar Center for Public Health Research in Tbilisi, Georgia, that spread during the Trump administration as well. According to reporting from the Associated Press, Russia’s Defense Ministry accused the U.S. of running a biological weapon lab in Georgia. The allegation more specifically, according to the AP, was that the lab in Georgia “was part of a network of U.S. labs near the borders of Russia and China.”_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fact Check: No, There Are No U.S.-Funded Bioweapons Labs in Ukraine
> 
> 
> False claims are going viral on social media.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> factcheck.thedispatch.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See above.
> 
> The link you shared does not refute anything.
> 
> _Today, Metabiota, the pioneer in epidemic risk modeling, announced it has been awarded a subcontract from Black & Veatch (B&V) to support the U.S. Defense Threat Reduction Agency’s (DTRA) Cooperative Biological Engagement Program (CBEP) in Iraq under the Biological Threat Reduction Integrating Contract (BTRIC). Metabiota has also partnered with B&V on DTRA’s recently awarded Cooperative Threat Reduction Integrating Contract (CTRIC) III with an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (ID/IQ) contract ceiling of $970M._
> 
> It reiterates the obvious with gross misinterpretation of these developments.
> 
> Some of the members here are so aloof to MEDICAL SCIENCES PRACTICES worldwide. You should visit an institute of virology near your location to get some perspective.



Do you expect USA to admit that it worked on biological weapons ?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Piotr

bobo6661 said:


> And bandera is their symbol of fighting against soviets ... They take a blind eye for what he did like russians for stalin and bandera became more popular to guess when? when russia started annexing ukraine



The Ukraine have positive characters like poet Taras Shevchenko. Promoting bad guys like Bandera is a road to nowhere. Good guys like Shevchenko should be promoted.

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## lightning F57

Piotr said:


> Of course Russia send Chechens with cover and support. Nothing wrong with that.
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is that Banderites are using civilians as human shields and Russia want as little civilian casualities as possible. It would be no problem for Russia to destroy Mariupol like USA destroyed Fallujah. But Russia is not USA. Russia does not want to turn Mariupol into Fallujah.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you expect USA to admit that it worked on biological weapons ?


Ahem weapons of mass destruction ahem....mobile labs good old Saddam had. Still waiting to see those. American government has a long history of lying especially when there is war. The Russians should show proof of these labs otherwise they are lying the same.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Footage of the destruction of the command post of the Armed Forces of Ukraine by the strike of guided missiles by army aviation helicopters


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507617094774493185

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
2 | Wow Wow:
1


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## bobo6661

Piotr said:


> The Ukraine have positive characters like Taras Shevchenko. Promoting bad guys like Bandera is a road to nowhere. Good guys like Shevchenko should be promoted.


They needed somone that was fighting soviets they picked him. Same goes with Stalin like man if they where not prompting him in russia he would be forgotten but he is getting more and more popular so i guess the goverment is not against him... And of course the good guys should be promoted sadly it does not work like that.


----------



## Piotr

lightning F57 said:


> Ahem weapons of mass destruction ahem....mobile labs good old Saddam had. Still waiting to see those. American government has a long history of lying especially when there is war. The Russians should show proof of these labs otherwise they are lying the same.



USA have/had biolabs in the Ukraine:






Bear in mind that when Marco Rubio asked Victoria Nuland “does Ukraine have chemical and biological weapons” she didn’t reply no. She replied “Ukraine has biological research facilities ...”

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Haha Haha:
3


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507615514952187906


----------



## Piotr

bobo6661 said:


> They needed somone that was fighting soviets they picked him. Same goes with Stalin like man if they where not prompting him in russia he would be forgotten but he is getting more and more popular so i guess the goverment is not against him... And of course the good guys should be promoted sadly it does not work like that.



They don't need Bandera. USA need Bandera to drive the wedge between the EU countries and Russia. Bandera was anti-Ukrainian, anti-Polish and anti-Russian. Bandera killed a lot of Ukrainians too.

USA want Ukraine to be anti-Russian that's why USA need Bandera. Ukraine does not need Bandera.

The Ukraine need to promote people who where pro-Ukraine not anti-Russian.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## jamahir

Skull and Bones said:


> I can writes pages on this issue, interestingly our lab proposed the idea of ‘nano vacuum channel transistors, using the principle of cold emission of electrons’ to DARPA. Didn’t get funding eventually, after working on it for 7 months.



So, like the NASA prototype your proposal also used helium gas as the "vacuum" or was it actual vacuum ? Was this before the 2012 work at NASA or after ? Do create a thread in the 'Technology & Science' section because it will be useful to me and others. Best are such ideas to be open source. I am especially interested in this because NASA says such transistors are resistant to space radiation.


----------



## oberschlesier

Piotr said:


> They don't need Bandera. USA need Bandera to drive the wedge between the EU countries and Russia. Bandera was anti-Ukrainian, anti-Polish and anti-Russian. Bandera killed a lot of Ukrainians too.
> 
> USA want Ukraine to be anti-Russian that's why USA need Bandera. Ukraine does not need Bandera.
> 
> The Ukraine need to promote people who where pro-Ukraine not anti-Russian.



Why do we need Russia anyway ? We can buy some recources from them, but generally they are not very important.



Foinikas said:


> Well no NATO member decided to leave yet,that's why. Imagine if one of the eastern countries leaves NATO. Immediate intervention for regime change,riots,suddenly the economy goes bad etc.
> 
> In the case of Greece,they will use Turkey and in the case of Turkey,they will support and fund Greece.
> 
> In the case of Western and Central European countries,they will treat them just like they treated France with the submarine deals.
> 
> It's not easy leaving NATO. Americans won't allow it.


Seriously? Don`t be silly. You cannot ever start to compare this. You never lived in the Warsaw Pact. It was really bad.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507636522492870657


----------



## oberschlesier

Piotr said:


> The Ukraine have positive characters like poet Taras Shevchenko. Promoting bad guys like Bandera is a road to nowhere. Good guys like Shevchenko should be promoted.


Ukraine can promote, who they like. It`s not a reason for a invasion.


----------



## WotTen

sammuel said:


> Have you even bothered listening to the 1812 Overture I attached ?
> 
> I doubt that , otherwise you would not make this comment.
> 
> Philharmonic schedule are made months in advance , it is not something you pull of your sleeve.
> 
> You know they say that God gave each of us two ears but only one mouth. And the reason is that we should listen twice as much as we speak !
> 
> Do try to listen this time , i am sure you would figure it out eventually :
> 
> 
> *Minute 10:00*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~



Reading is not your forte, it seems.

_The 1812 Overture was due to be included in the orchestra’s Tchaikovsky concert at St David’s Hall on 18 March, but the entire programme has been abandoned because of events in Ukraine.

Other factors included consideration for an orchestra member with a Ukrainian-born partner who has family members in Ukraine, which Russia has invaded, and that the orchestra was made aware that the title, “Little Russian” of Symphony No 2, could be deemed offensive to Ukrainians.

Robinson said the orchestra would play the Ukrainian national anthem at the beginning of the event on 18 March and take a collection for the Ukrainian crisis appeal. Instead of Tchaikovsky, the orchestra will present a programme centred on Antonín Dvořák’s symphony No 8. It will also include John Williams’s The Cowboys Overture and a performance of Edward Elgar’s Enigma Variations in the second half._

They abandoned the entire Tchaikovsky concert, all pieces, including the non-military pieces. And they had plenty of time to substitute pieces by other composers.

Get back to us when you manage to get your foot out of your mouth.


----------



## oberschlesier

Piotr said:


> That's right. USA won, the EU lost.
> A few years ago there was a concept of Europe from Lisbon to Vladivostok. Europe from Lisbon to Vladivostok would have bigger potential than USA. So USA did everything to sabotage this concept. To sabotage cooperation between the EU countries and Russia USA founded Banderites coup against democratically elected President of the Ukraine Yanukovych. And USA succeded in sabotaging concept of Europe from Lisbon to Vladivostok.
> 
> View attachment 827494


Yeah, Lisbon to Vladivostok. WE don`t need Russia to be succesful.


----------



## Viet

Piotr said:


> Ask how many Anglos approve Churchill. Churchill was actually worse than Stalin.
> 
> Soviet Union under Stalin won war against Nazi Germany. Do you expect the Russians to be ashamed of this win ?
> Stalin did bad things but he also did good things. Soviet Union under his reign become superpower and was first to send a man to the space.


Talk of the past, why not talked of Mongol invasion, how’s about today? Russia has ballistic missiles parked in Kaliningrad.
what is your response?


----------



## oberschlesier

Viet said:


> Talk of the past, why not today? Russia has ballistic missiles parked in Kaliningrad.
> what is your response?


Demilitarisierte and Denazify Kaliningrad would be nice 

Anyway Piotr is russian troll.


----------



## Viet

oberschlesier said:


> Demilitarisierte and Denazify Kaliningrad would be nice
> 
> Anyway Piotr is russian troll.


The former Czech president Havel said Russia has a problem, it doesn’t know where it begins where it ends. Russia has the largest land mass on earth but the Russians believe that is not enough.

Accusing Ukraine is run by drug addicts and Nazi to launch invasion is rediculous.

What’s next?

Invasion of Germany?

Here live lots of Nazi.

And drug addicted.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## oberschlesier

Viet said:


> The former Czech president Havel said Russia has a problem, it doesn’t know where it begins where it ends. Russia has the largest land mass on earth but the Russians believe that is not enough.


Exactly, why do they need more land ? Russian goverment is just really bad at using what they have and they have a lot of resources, people etc.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> IS, not "was"
> 
> And judging the way and length the Russian took Mariupol (still has not fall on day 30), I really doubt Russia can do anything with the entire Donbas region. It's a lot better entrenched than the city, lay out with defensive network, plus you are giving the Ukrainian 30 days to improve the defence infrastructure, also, unlike Mariupol, Donbas region is still opened. Which mean supply is going to flow thru.
> 
> I mean if Russia cannot take Mariupol in the next couple of days, they virtually have no chance to take the entire Donbas in the whole 2022, or beyond. On the other hand, Ukrainian is starting to move over to Kherson, once they have retake Kherson (some report suggested part of Kherson is already in Ukrainian hand) that's more or less game over on Russian Southern attack, unless they fancy losing Crimea and have the entire south cut off....
> 
> 
> lol, probably not after they just see Russia blackmail the European in this war.
> 
> I mean, literally, Russia just burn their bridge on the European, and then turn around and say to the Chinese "Would you want a bite of that apple..." It may cost you some of your land.............lol


Based on a reasonable person's reading of simple English, I believe you are predicting that Ukraine retaking Kherson is a certainty.

What if you're wrong?


----------



## oberschlesier

Viet said:


> The former Czech president Havel said Russia has a problem, it doesn’t know where it begins where it ends. Russia has the largest land mass on earth but the Russians believe that is not enough.
> 
> Accusing Ukraine is run by drug addicts and Nazi to launch invasion is rediculous.
> 
> What’s next?
> 
> Invasion of Germany?
> 
> Here live lots of Nazi.
> 
> And drug addicted.


Russia does not have the potential to handle Ukraine. It seems, they are not very important.

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## RescueRanger

dBSPL said:


> France summoned the Russian ambassador to foreign affairs because sharing this cartoons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “These cartoons are unacceptable,” the statement says.
> 
> But, once upon times, Macron said about Islamophobic cartoons, "Everything can be caricatured in France, this is our freedom of expression."


Lol elite level trolling by an official government account. 😂

What is going on in this war it’s a farce.

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## oberschlesier

RescueRanger said:


> Lol elite level trolling by an official government account. 😂
> 
> What is going on in this war it’s a farce.


This is a offiicial account. My God, how incompetent they are.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## sammuel

WotTen said:


> Reading is not your forte, it seems.
> 
> _The 1812 Overture was due to be included in the orchestra’s Tchaikovsky concert at St David’s Hall on 18 March, but the entire programme has been abandoned because of events in Ukraine.
> 
> Other factors included consideration for an orchestra member with a Ukrainian-born partner who has family members in Ukraine, which Russia has invaded, and that the orchestra was made aware that the title, “Little Russian” of Symphony No 2, could be deemed offensive to Ukrainians.
> 
> Robinson said the orchestra would play the Ukrainian national anthem at the beginning of the event on 18 March and take a collection for the Ukrainian crisis appeal. Instead of Tchaikovsky, the orchestra will present a programme centred on Antonín Dvořák’s symphony No 8. It will also include John Williams’s The Cowboys Overture and a performance of Edward Elgar’s Enigma Variations in the second half._
> 
> They abandoned the entire Tchaikovsky concert, all pieces, including the non-military pieces. And they had plenty of time to substitute pieces by other composers.
> 
> Get back to us when you manage to get your foot out of your mouth.



Seems you quote what you like and ignore the rest , go back and read , kindly ignore titles meant only to sell papers.

You really have to be deaf dumb and blind not to understand why some musicians found in in bad taste to play this particular piece.










Cardiff orchestra defends move to cut Tchaikovsky from concert


1812 Overture features cannon fire and other Russian composers will feature later in year, says director




www.theguardian.com





Putting this aside , i doubt many forum members here care if one orchestra decided to play Tsiolkovsky or not.

But the picture that Mr Putin tried to describe , as if " the west " is banning Russian composers and writers , Just cause one independent orchestra in the UK , decided not to play this piece , simply has no connection to reality.

Beside it is Russia , not the west that suffers from limitation on freedom of expression. And i think you know that well enough.

To compare that to _*Kristallnacht*_ as , Putin tried to do is an insult to history and our intelligence.

~


----------



## RescueRanger

oberschlesier said:


> This is a offiicial account. My God, how incompetent they are.


Exactly 😂



oberschlesier said:


> Russia does not have the potential to handle Ukraine. It seems, they are not very important.


Russians didn’t learn anything from WWII it seems.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507656760953344000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507631419715203079

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507656383587663876
#Ukraine - Violent clashes continue on the borders of the Donetsk region, the killing of 60 Ukrainian soldiers, and the surrender of 16 others..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507651697899974658

Reactions: Like Like:
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## WotTen

sammuel said:


> Seems you quote what you like and ignore the rest , go back and read , kindly ignore titles meant only to sell papers.
> 
> You really have to be deaf dumb and blind not to understand why some musicians found in in bad taste to play this particular piece.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cardiff orchestra defends move to cut Tchaikovsky from concert
> 
> 
> 1812 Overture features cannon fire and other Russian composers will feature later in year, says director
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com



Once again, they cancelled ALL pieces by Tchaikovsky in the concert, *not just the military piece.* Then they can up with excuses why each piece was not appropriate, *not just the military piece.*

And, they had time enough to schedule alternative pieces by other composers. They could have substituted other pieces by Tchaikovsky but no!

Bottom line, they went overboard with their anti-Russia hysteria, got ridiculed, and had to do damage control.

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## Viet

oberschlesier said:


> Russia does not have the potential to handle Ukraine. It seems, they are not very important.


That happens if someone believes to his own propaganda. Putin believes Ukraine will greet the invasion army with flowers. But instead they are greeted by Molotov cocktails.

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## sammuel

WotTen said:


> Once again, they cancelled ALL pieces by Tchaikovsky in the concert, *not just the military piece.* Then they can up with excuses why each piece was not appropriate, *not just the military piece.*
> 
> And, they had time enough to schedule alternative pieces by other composers. They could have substituted other pieces by Tchaikovsky but no!
> 
> Bottom line, they went overboard with their anti-Russia hysteria, got ridiculed, and had to do damage control.



Putting this aside , i doubt many forum members here care if one orchestra decided to play Tsiolkovsky or not.

But the picture that Mr Putin tried to describe , as if " the west " is banning Russian composers and writers , Just cause one independent orchestra in the UK , decided not to play this piece , simply has no connection to reality.

Beside it is Russia , not the west that suffers from limitation on freedom of expression. And i think you know that well enough.

To compare that to _*Kristallnacht*_ as , Putin tried to do is an insult to history and our intelligence.

~


----------



## Ich

"The West...land of the free..." 

New hotness: In Germany now you can go to jail if you wear the "Z" on clothes or paint it somewhere or put it on your car ect....









"Z"-Symbol: Pistorius kündigt Strafen für Krieg-Befürworter an


Niedersachsens Innenminister Boris Pistorius (SPD) hat strafrechtliche Konsequenzen für das Verwenden des "Z"-Symbols in der Öffentlichkeit angekündigt.




www.ndr.de

Reactions: Like Like:
6 | Love Love:
1 | Wow Wow:
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## PaklovesTurkiye

LMAO....

What is he doing....Never seen launching of missile like that

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## The SC

The Russian Defense Minister confirms that the sanctions did not affect the defense budget


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507660752630517760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507658207904382984


----------



## WotTen

sammuel said:


> But the picture that Mr Putin tried to describe , as if " the west " is banning Russian composers and writers ,



Putin is trying to portray this as the West v/s the Russian people, which is why I think the boycott by some Western companies was ill advised. It is one thing to sanction Russian oligarchs, but for McDonalds to leave Russia? That's just silly and played into Putin's narrative.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## oberschlesier

The SC said:


> The Russian Defense Minister confirms that the sanctions did not affect the defense budget
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507660752630517760
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507658207904382984


He can confirm whatever he likes. Anyway, look at the video. The generals look very possitive and motivated. Why they are releasing such things ?


----------



## LeGenD

Piotr said:


> Of course Russia send Chechens with cover and support. Nothing wrong with that.
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is that Banderites are using civilians as human shields and Russia want as little civilian casualities as possible. It would be no problem for Russia to destroy Mariupol like USA destroyed Fallujah. But Russia is not USA. Russia does not want to turn Mariupol into Fallujah.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you expect USA to admit that it worked on biological weapons ?



*1.* Exactly - those big bad Chechens in Ukraine are more of a PR initiative for Russians than a fighting force to be respected on its own. Thanks for admitting this.

*2.* Typical claims.

Do you even bother to do your own homework or rely upon hearsay and handouts?

Russian forces have destroyed much of Mariupol:






Clashes in Mariupol have led to creation of mass graves to bury the dead:









Red Cross says cannot reach Mariupol due to security conditions


A team of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) has not been able to reach the besieged city of Mariupol on Monday to evacuate civilians, a spokesperson said, citing security conditions.




www.reuters.com





Russian forces were targeting journalists in Mariupol:









These journalists documented the destruction in Mariupol and escaped as Russian forces hunted them down


AP journalists were warned by Ukrainian policeman that Russians would put them on camera and make them recant everything they had documented




www.theglobeandmail.com





Nothing to hide, right?

*3.* WE live in times of cyberwarfare and fact-checking is increasingly important consideration in my view.

Fact-checking sources help clear misconceptions and unravel cyberwarfare efforts in discourses. I used fact-checking sources to address Russian biolabs narrative for Ukraine in following post:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Russian forcies (including that from Chechnya) managed to prevent Bandera forces from attacking Donbass Republics. Massive Bandera attack against Donbass Republics was planed for March. Russian forcies managed to stop US development of nuclear and biologicas weapons in the territory of the...



defence.pk





You typed another response in 2 minutes - this shows that you did not bother to check the links.

I had to extract information from the links for you to see:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Russian forcies (including that from Chechnya) managed to prevent Bandera forces from attacking Donbass Republics. Massive Bandera attack against Donbass Republics was planed for March. Russian forcies managed to stop US development of nuclear and biologicas weapons in the territory of the...



defence.pk





Now you are like: _"Do you expect USA to admit that it worked on biological weapons ?"_

Deflection continues.

My counter-question to you then: What about Russian bioweapons program in its homeland and Kazakhstan?

- - - -
Amid false Russian allegations of US “biolabs” in Ukraine, it’s worth asking: What is a bioweapon?​





The Stepnogorsk biological weapons complex in Kazakhstan. Credit: US Department of Defense.

Earlier this month, the Russian ambassador to the United Nations all but accused the United States and Ukraine of having biological weapons. While governments around the world have signed an international treaty banning germ warfare, Russia, Vassily Nebenzia said, had “grounds to think that those hopes did not come true completely.” According to the ambassador, the Russian military had found proof that US-funded “biolabs” in Ukraine were engaged in nefarious research and were enhancing dangerous pathogens.

Experts say the documents that the Russian military allegedly acquired show that labs in Ukraine were working on public health research and aren’t evidence of a weapons program. Some of the Russian claims, at least, come from publicly available sources. At the heart of the allegations are dozens of labs in Ukraine. They are not a secret; they’re run by Ukrainian officials and partner with the US government on health research programs, for instance, surveys on natural exposure to endemic pathogens like hantavirus. These aren’t biological weapons laboratories, but the allegations raise important questions. Just what are bioweapons, anyway? How have they been used and developed throughout the years? And how can real bioweapons facilities be identified?

*What is a biological weapon?* George Mason University Professor Greg Koblentz, the director of the school’s biodefense graduate program, said the bacterium that causes anthrax infection has been the most commonly studied biological agent in modern biowarfare programs. That’s because _Bacillus anthracis_ forms a spore that can be aerosolized and spread through the air, the main way to deliver a large-scale biological attack. “This is a very strenuous experience for the pathogen,” Koblentz said. “They don’t like being blown up. They don’t like UV radiation. They don’t like being suspended in air. This process will kill most of the bacteria or viruses in a biological weapon once it’s being disseminated. Anthrax spores provide that ability for them to survive that process much better than other pathogens.” With a fatality rate of 80 percent, inhaled anthrax bacteria can be a deadly weapon.

Other diseases, including the bacterial illness tularemia, have also been studied, but, Koblentz said, weapons programs have shied away from diseases like influenza that spread easily. While the Soviet Union did weaponize smallpox and plague, two contagious diseases, the US program tended to “shy away from” these agents, he said.

“You wouldn’t purposefully develop a biological weapon that is highly contagious that could cause a pandemic because that will affect your country along with everyone else,” Koblentz said.





Genoese fortifications at Caffa in present-day Ukraine. Credit: Janmad. CC BY 3.0 via Wikimedia Commons (color edited).

*What is the history of biological warfare?* By the 1300s, warring armies in Europe had arrived at the idea of using dead animals and people, including plague victims, as weapons. According to one historical account, a Mongol army in 1346 loaded plague victims on catapults and “hurled” them into Caffa, a fortified Genoese trading post in present-day Ukraine. In 1650, Kazimierz Siemienowicz, a Polish general, reportedly laced bullets with saliva from rabid dogs. And colonial British forces in the United States gave smallpox infested blankets to Native Americans on at least one occasion. But the best example of modern biowarfare, Koblentz said, comes from the Japanese invasion and occupation of China.

Japan’s infamous Unit 731 conducted grotesque experiments on prisoners to assess the effects of biological agents like the bacteria that causes cholera, including dissections on living, unanesthetized people. The unit allegedly experimented on at least 3,000 prisoners of war; an estimated 1,000 died, according to a 1997 report by the US Surgeon General.

But far from limiting its work to lab settings, the Japanese military also tested weapons on the public in Chinese cities. Planes would fly over communities and drop plague infested flees, attacks that were followed by reports of outbreaks. “What’s not well known is that they actually integrated their use of biological weapons with their conventional military operations in China,” Koblentz said.

Despite the horrors committed by Unit 731, several of its officials were given immunity from war crimes prosecution; the United States, which by then had its own offensive biological weapons program, sought to understand what the Japanese had learned.

*Which countries have had biological weapons programs? *According to a 2008 tabulation by the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies, more than 20 countries have or have had a biological weapons program.

Of those programs, the former Soviet Union once maintained the world’s most extensive. While the country had been developing bioweapons since the 1920s, the Soviet government secretly expanded that effort after signing the 1972 Biological Weapons Convention. The Soviet program intended to capitalize on advances in genetic engineering to produce pathogens that were more suitable for weaponization than naturally occurring strains, and tens of thousands of scientists and others worked on the illicit effort. They conducted research to make hybrid pathogens with genetic material from more than one virus; pathogens that could elude diagnostic tests; and pathogens made up of both bacteria and viruses. The Soviets had the ability to produce massive amounts of anthrax agent and other pathogens, according to a 2002 Congressional Research Service report.

The United States also had a formidable weapons program. The military had a research and development lab at Ft. Detrick in Maryland, an open-air test site in Utah, and a production plant in Arkansas which produced biological agents and filled them into delivery devices, including spray tanks, bombs, and bomblets. According to a 2009 National Defense University case study, the program’s wares included lethal antipersonnel agents, incapacitating agents, and anti-crop weapons. The offensive program, however, ended in 1969, when President Richard Nixon, after an internal review, unilaterally abandoned the weapons and had the US stockpile destroyed.

That review found that pathogens take time to incubate, making them an impractical weapon during battle, and that they could mutate or establish themselves in animal species. Officials reasoned bioweapons couldn’t be used first without drawing international condemnation and, moreover, that the country had a powerful nuclear arsenal to deter an attack. The Army destroyed its supplies of the pathogens that cause anthrax, tuleremia, and other diseases between 1971 and 1972, along with tens of thousands of munitions filled with biological agents, according to the case study. The United States ratified the Biological Weapons Convention in 1975.





The US military tested biological warfare agents using the One-Million-Liter Test Sphere, also called the Eight Ball, at Ft. Detrick in Maryland. Credit: US Army.

*How have biological weapons been tested?* At Ft. Detrick, military researchers used a giant steel sphere known as the Eight Ball to test aerosolized agents on military volunteers. At the Dugway Proving Ground in the Utah desert, researchers conducted open-air experimentation, where germs were spread on the wind toward soldiers who had volunteered for tests. While researchers used animals in offensive weapons tests, the purpose of human tests was murkier, Koblentz said. More than 2,000 conscientious objectors, mainly from the Seventh-Day Adventist Church, participated in the Project Whitecoat program. That effort exposed volunteers to several diseases, including tularemia, which was eventually standardized as a biological weapons agent. The experiments led to knowledge that could be used in both in offensive weapons and for defensive purposes, Koblentz said.

The military also conducted various tests in public places using agents that could simulate dangerous pathogens. For example, researchers in the 1950 exposed the San Francisco Bay-area to aerosolized _Bacillus globigii _and _Serratia marcescens_, bacteria which were thought to be benign. According to the Surgeon General’s report, however, there were subsequent reports of infections in the surrounding communities.

Bioweapons accidents in the Soviet Union led to several deaths.

In 1971, a research vessel on the Aral Sea sailed near Vozrozhdeniya Island and into a “brownish haze.” The island was an out-door Soviet bioweapons testing site, and the haze was aerosolized version of the virus that causes smallpox. An infected crew member took the virus back home and nine people fell sick in a subsequent outbreak; three including the researcher’s brother died, according to a BBC report.

One of the worst bioweapons accidents happened in 1979 when anthrax spores leaked from a plant in the city of Sverdlovsk, now called Yekaterinburg. The leak killed at least 66 people, and perhaps more. A team that included Jeanne Guillemin and Matthew Meselson, noted bioweapons experts, plotted where each of the victims had been and, based on meteorological data, placed them in a zone downwind from the weapons plant known as Compound 19. The research showed that perhaps even less than 1 gram of anthrax spores—equivalent to a quarter teaspoon of salt—could kill many people. Had the wind been blowing toward Sverdlovsk, the death toll could have been far higher.

In 1992, former Russian President Boris Yeltsin acknowledged that the Sverdlovks outbreak had been caused by military activity and ordered an end to Russia’s offensive bioweapons program that year.

*How can bioweapons programs be identified? *Identifying a bioweapons program is no easy task, Koblentz said. That’s because many of the pathogens and equipment that would be necessary for an offensive program also have legitimate uses: “You can’t just look at a facility and say, ‘Oh, you have a fermenter of this size, therefore, it is civilian, or therefore it is part of a bioweapons program.’” The same goes for pathogen strains, he said. Labs might have virulent anthrax in order to produce vaccines or detection systems, for example, or because they’re dealing with public health outbreaks in the area. “Just seeing something there is by no means sufficient,” Koblentz said.

But by analyzing various facts about a site, Koblentz said, a facility’s true intention can be apparent.

Near the Kazakhstani city of Stepnogorsk, a Soviet biological weapons production facility contained “towering fermenters” that could produce two tons of anthrax in a day. The Stepnogorsk plant also produced civilian products, but the purpose of the facility was clear to analysts. “There was no plausible civilian rationale for having that production capacity,” Koblentz said. “Next door to that production building there were fortified bunkers that were designed to store the ammunition that this anthrax would go into. So looking at this combination of facilities and capabilities, you could say this is a biological weapons production facility.”

Inspectors and analysts don’t have access to all facilities they suspect of being involved in biological weapons activities. The US government, for instance, has alleged that Russia still maintains an offensive biological weapons program. Even without access, Koblentz said, there are ways to assess whether a country has an offensive program. The US government, for example, has accused a military facility at Sergiev Posad of being part of the program. “The fact that this is a military facility, it’s top secret, no outsiders are allowed in, [the] lack of transparency in itself is a tell,” Koblentz said.

In contrast, Koblentz said, the recent Russian allegations of illegitimate biological research being conducted in Ukraine rely on publicly available information. “The Russians were putting up slides being used at scientific conferences. These researchers are publishing in peer reviewed journals, right?” he said. “You don’t do that if you’re trying to hide a secret bioweapons program in Ukraine.”

*How are biological weapons regulated? *The Biological Weapons Convention has 183 members, called states parties. By contrast, just 10 countries have not signed or ratified the treaty. The treaty doesn’t ban pathogens or the equipment like fermenters used to work with them, biosecurity expert Filippa Lentzos said at a recent event. “We’re saying, ‘You’re not allowed to use it if it’s not for peaceful purposes.’ It comes down to intent.” While the convention has helped shape norms against biological weapons, some observers point to a gap in the agreement, the lack of a “formal verification regime to monitor compliance.” As it stands, members participate in confidence-building measures, for example, by sharing reports on biological research centers and biodefense initiatives. Violating the treaty, Koblentz said, doesn’t necessarily come with a steep price. “The treaty itself doesn’t have any real penalties and given the difficulty of proving in an unclassified way that a country is in violation—it’s challenging,” he said. “That’s been a major weakness in the whole bioweapons non-proliferation regime from the beginning.”

Part of why the Soviet Union proceeded to expand its bioweapons program after joining the Biological Weapons Convention was because officials thought that Nixon’s order to end the US offensive program was a ruse and that the United States was continuing to develop offensive capabilities. Some fear that false accusations about bioweapons programs, like the recent Russian disinformation, could erode trust and weaken the norm that prohibits the operation of clandestine programs. Well-documented cases of countries using bioweapons in war have been rare. But if a country were to reverse course, as the Sverdlovks anthrax leak suggests, the results could be catastrophic.









Amid false Russian allegations of US “biolabs” in Ukraine, it’s worth asking: What is a bioweapon?


Just what is a bioweapon anyway? Production and research facilities for these destructive weapons aren't always easy to spot.




thebulletin.org





- - - -

Russia and Kazakhstan should also be investigated for bioweapons program on the grounds of TRANSPARENCY and FAIRNESS.

Agreed?

Pot calling Kettle black otherwise.



Piotr said:


> USA have/had biolabs in the Ukraine:
> View attachment 827537
> 
> 
> Bear in mind that when Marco Rubio asked Victoria Nuland “does Ukraine have chemical and biological weapons” she didn’t reply no. She replied “Ukraine has biological research facilities ...”



Oh my gosh... 

Let us consider the example of the famous Chinese virologist Zhengli Shi:

_Prof. Shi is the director of the Center for Emerging Infectious Diseases of the Wuhan Institute of Virology. She got her Ph.D training at Montpellier University II, France, from 1996 to 2000. Her research focuses on viral pathogen discovery through traditional and high-throughput sequencing techniques. She has been studying the wildlife-borne viral pathogens, particularly bat-borne viruses since 2004. Her group has discovered diverse novel viruses/virus antibodies in bats, including SARS-like coronaviruses, adenoviruses, adeno-associated viruses, circoviruses, paramyxoviruses and filoviruses in China. One of her great contributions is to uncover genetically diverse SARS-like coronaviruses in bats with her international collaborators and provide unequivocal evidence that bats are natural reservoirs of SARS-CoV. She has coauthored >130 publications on viral pathogen identification, diagnosis and epidemiology._









Zhengli Shi - World Society for Virology


The director of the Center for Emerging Infectious Diseases of the Wuhan Institute of Virology, Chinese Academy of Sciences.




www.ws-virology.org





She should be arrested for her experiments on samples of the coronavirus among others?









Public statement for collaboration on COVID-19 vaccine development


Under WHO’s coordination, a group of experts with diverse backgrounds is working towards the development of vaccines against COVID-19.




www.who.int





Many countries around the world have established Institutes of Virology (Medical Sciences initiative). These institutes collect and store virus samples for research purposes and attempt to develop vaccines. These institutes exist in Iran, Pakistan, China and Russia as well.

It would be rather convenient to misrepresent these practices for bioweapons research with cyberwarfare initiatives.

Get it now?

- - - -

It makes sense to move those virus samples out from war-torn Ukraine if they were stored in any medical facility. Russian forces are shelling Ukrainian towns and cities and these activities could result in leaks of viruses which will exacerbate humanitarian crisis in the region.


----------



## Hydration

WotTen said:


> Putin is trying to portray this as the West v/s the Russian people, which is why I think the boycott by some Western companies was ill advised. It is one thing to sanction Russian oligarchs, but for McDonalds to leave Russia? That's just silly and played into Putin's narrative.


thats not a narritive. Its a reality on ground


----------



## sammuel

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> LMAO....
> 
> What is he doing....Never seen launching of missile like that

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2


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## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Based on a reasonable person's reading of simple English, I believe you are predicting that Ukraine retaking Kherson is a certainty.
> 
> What if you're wrong?


When or Where had I stress that Kherson will fall to the Ukrainian in certainty??

I don't think that's a reasonable understanding of my post. 

A reasonable person would have deduced that my point is Ukrainian is launching a counter offensive in Kherson (Which is a fact) and I have received report that Kherson is not in full Russian control, thus a reasonable person would have assume that Russia will need to reinforce their position in Kherson.

I did made one prediction tho, had Kherson felt, the entire Russian southern flank will be Kaput.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507674210285543430

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507667779289296897

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507667161350909956

Reactions: Like Like:
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## WotTen

Hydration said:


> thats not a narritive. Its a reality on ground



If ordinary Russians suffer too much, they could go against Putin or they could rally around him. Hard to tell which way it would go...


----------



## Viet

Ich said:


> Yes, but coal isnt the best option. Germany was on the way to hydrogen economy 25 years ago. But then in 1998 the idiots take over.
> 
> Also the "gas deal" with Quatar is still propaganda at the moment. Cause Quatar says: "Gas deliveries will not happen soon". And this is NOT bad will from Quatar. There are just no gas-tankers to do it.
> 
> View attachment 827496


Hydrogen is not an option because hydrogen has low efficiency otherwise Germany does it long ago.

Will be an interesting challenge 
Germany will cut Russia oil imports to zero by 2023 and gas to zero by 2024.





__





Subscribe to read | Financial Times


News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




www.ft.com


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507664340966641665

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## sammuel

WotTen said:


> If ordinary Russians suffer too much, they could go against Putin




Ordinary Russians have not gone against their leader since the revolution of 1917 , and it is certainly not for lack of suffering . . .

~


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## WotTen

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> LMAO....
> 
> What is he doing....Never seen launching of missile like that



Doesn't seem any worse than propaganda films by any other country.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507658511752343557

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507460307802898448

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1 | Wow Wow:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507319354983129088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506975985157255168

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## Ich

Viet said:


> Hydrogen is not an option because hydrogen has low efficiency otherwise Germany does it long ago.
> 
> Will be an interesting challenge
> Germany will cut Russia oil imports to zero by 2023 and gas to zero by 2024.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Subscribe to read | Financial Times
> 
> 
> News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ft.com



Hydrogen is the best option cause you can use it for cars, ships, airplanes, industry, energy, heating ect.

Cut gas by 2024? How should it work? Where does the replacement will come from? From US with trippled (or more) price? Qatar said it doesent happen before 2026. And with what ships? You need gastanker, which are none free cause all in the world are in use. You first have to build gas tankers. For Germany in the hundreds. For EU in the thousand. How many shipyards in the world can build gas tankers? And how long does it need to build one? No no, better is to stay with russian gas and push hydrogen economy in the next 8-10 years and slowly reduce russian gas and replace it in the long run through hydrogen.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507685025088684035

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507580694381441024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507580530598068226


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## Ali_Baba

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506975985157255168



and Pakistani Rupees ????


----------



## RescueRanger

Meanwhile American volunteers are throwing OPSEC out of the window and posting on TikTok:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507088275193806866


----------



## The SC

The situation in Ukraine:

- Russia is advancing..
- Ukraine and the West have a crushing media victory..which turns into failure with the achievement of Russian goals on the ground..

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## Hydration

WotTen said:


> If ordinary Russians suffer too much, they could go against Putin or they could rally around him. Hard to tell which way it would go...


hoping for a russian reveloution is like hoping for america to consider israel an enemy

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## The SC

Ali_Baba said:


> and Pakistani Rupees ????



He should have added ..etc...


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507595467827429376

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507687711766990851


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507664862456942593

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507665786042667009

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507667464703791104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507667919357952002

Lead editor of the WarZone

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507663805043683332

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507659653617958913

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## Wood

RescueRanger said:


> Meanwhile American volunteers are throwing OPSEC out of the window and posting on TikTok:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507088275193806866


These videos are like ISIS videos in some way. A propaganda tool to recruit other Americans looking for action

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507652627621765124

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## Vergennes

Azov in Mariupol. Note the destroyed Russian vehicles marked with "O". Means forces from the northern offensive were redeployed to Mariupol.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507654480921255938

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507563413626658818😂

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507335297406746625

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## Paul2

Viet said:


> Where are Shoigu and Gerasimov?
> The architects of the war. Still there or in a Soviet gulag?
> 
> View attachment 827471



Drinking tea


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507694922895343619

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## Piotr

LeGenD said:


> *1.* Exactly - those big bad Chechens in Ukraine are more of a PR initiative for Russians than a fighting force to be respected on its own. Thanks for admitting this.



Chechen forcies are risking their lives to liberate Mariupol and save civilians from Banderites. It is disrespectful to call this PR initiative.




LeGenD said:


> *2.* Typical claims.
> 
> Do you even bother to do your own homework or rely upon hearsay and handouts?
> 
> Russian forces have destroyed much of Mariupol:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Clashes in Mariupol have led to creation of mass graves to bury the dead:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Red Cross says cannot reach Mariupol due to security conditions
> 
> 
> A team of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) has not been able to reach the besieged city of Mariupol on Monday to evacuate civilians, a spokesperson said, citing security conditions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian forces were targeting journalists in Mariupol:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These journalists documented the destruction in Mariupol and escaped as Russian forces hunted them down
> 
> 
> AP journalists were warned by Ukrainian policeman that Russians would put them on camera and make them recant everything they had documented
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theglobeandmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing to hide, right?



What this video is meant to prove ? This is only small part of Mariupol. Compare all of Mariupol with all of Fallujah.

The Globeandmail ? Really ? This is Anglosaxon media. They lied about alleged WMD in Iraq. They have zero credibility.



LeGenD said:


> *3.* WE live in times of cyberwarfare and fact-checking is increasingly important consideration in my view.
> 
> Fact-checking sources help clear misconceptions and unravel cyberwarfare efforts in discourses. I used fact-checking sources to address Russian biolabs narrative for Ukraine in following post:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> Russian forcies (including that from Chechnya) managed to prevent Bandera forces from attacking Donbass Republics. Massive Bandera attack against Donbass Republics was planed for March. Russian forcies managed to stop US development of nuclear and biologicas weapons in the territory of the...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You typed another response in 2 minutes - this shows that you did not bother to check the links.
> 
> I had to extract information from the links for you to see:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> Russian forcies (including that from Chechnya) managed to prevent Bandera forces from attacking Donbass Republics. Massive Bandera attack against Donbass Republics was planed for March. Russian forcies managed to stop US development of nuclear and biologicas weapons in the territory of the...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are like: _"Do you expect USA to admit that it worked on biological weapons ?"_
> 
> Deflection continues.
> 
> My counter-question to you then: What about Russian bioweapons program in its homeland and Kazakhstan?
> 
> - - - -
> Amid false Russian allegations of US “biolabs” in Ukraine, it’s worth asking: What is a bioweapon?​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Stepnogorsk biological weapons complex in Kazakhstan. Credit: US Department of Defense.
> 
> Earlier this month, the Russian ambassador to the United Nations all but accused the United States and Ukraine of having biological weapons. While governments around the world have signed an international treaty banning germ warfare, Russia, Vassily Nebenzia said, had “grounds to think that those hopes did not come true completely.” According to the ambassador, the Russian military had found proof that US-funded “biolabs” in Ukraine were engaged in nefarious research and were enhancing dangerous pathogens.
> 
> Experts say the documents that the Russian military allegedly acquired show that labs in Ukraine were working on public health research and aren’t evidence of a weapons program. Some of the Russian claims, at least, come from publicly available sources. At the heart of the allegations are dozens of labs in Ukraine. They are not a secret; they’re run by Ukrainian officials and partner with the US government on health research programs, for instance, surveys on natural exposure to endemic pathogens like hantavirus. These aren’t biological weapons laboratories, but the allegations raise important questions. Just what are bioweapons, anyway? How have they been used and developed throughout the years? And how can real bioweapons facilities be identified?
> 
> *What is a biological weapon?* George Mason University Professor Greg Koblentz, the director of the school’s biodefense graduate program, said the bacterium that causes anthrax infection has been the most commonly studied biological agent in modern biowarfare programs. That’s because _Bacillus anthracis_ forms a spore that can be aerosolized and spread through the air, the main way to deliver a large-scale biological attack. “This is a very strenuous experience for the pathogen,” Koblentz said. “They don’t like being blown up. They don’t like UV radiation. They don’t like being suspended in air. This process will kill most of the bacteria or viruses in a biological weapon once it’s being disseminated. Anthrax spores provide that ability for them to survive that process much better than other pathogens.” With a fatality rate of 80 percent, inhaled anthrax bacteria can be a deadly weapon.
> 
> Other diseases, including the bacterial illness tularemia, have also been studied, but, Koblentz said, weapons programs have shied away from diseases like influenza that spread easily. While the Soviet Union did weaponize smallpox and plague, two contagious diseases, the US program tended to “shy away from” these agents, he said.
> 
> “You wouldn’t purposefully develop a biological weapon that is highly contagious that could cause a pandemic because that will affect your country along with everyone else,” Koblentz said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Genoese fortifications at Caffa in present-day Ukraine. Credit: Janmad. CC BY 3.0 via Wikimedia Commons (color edited).
> 
> *What is the history of biological warfare?* By the 1300s, warring armies in Europe had arrived at the idea of using dead animals and people, including plague victims, as weapons. According to one historical account, a Mongol army in 1346 loaded plague victims on catapults and “hurled” them into Caffa, a fortified Genoese trading post in present-day Ukraine. In 1650, Kazimierz Siemienowicz, a Polish general, reportedly laced bullets with saliva from rabid dogs. And colonial British forces in the United States gave smallpox infested blankets to Native Americans on at least one occasion. But the best example of modern biowarfare, Koblentz said, comes from the Japanese invasion and occupation of China.
> 
> Japan’s infamous Unit 731 conducted grotesque experiments on prisoners to assess the effects of biological agents like the bacteria that causes cholera, including dissections on living, unanesthetized people. The unit allegedly experimented on at least 3,000 prisoners of war; an estimated 1,000 died, according to a 1997 report by the US Surgeon General.
> 
> But far from limiting its work to lab settings, the Japanese military also tested weapons on the public in Chinese cities. Planes would fly over communities and drop plague infested flees, attacks that were followed by reports of outbreaks. “What’s not well known is that they actually integrated their use of biological weapons with their conventional military operations in China,” Koblentz said.
> 
> Despite the horrors committed by Unit 731, several of its officials were given immunity from war crimes prosecution; the United States, which by then had its own offensive biological weapons program, sought to understand what the Japanese had learned.
> 
> *Which countries have had biological weapons programs? *According to a 2008 tabulation by the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies, more than 20 countries have or have had a biological weapons program.
> 
> Of those programs, the former Soviet Union once maintained the world’s most extensive. While the country had been developing bioweapons since the 1920s, the Soviet government secretly expanded that effort after signing the 1972 Biological Weapons Convention. The Soviet program intended to capitalize on advances in genetic engineering to produce pathogens that were more suitable for weaponization than naturally occurring strains, and tens of thousands of scientists and others worked on the illicit effort. They conducted research to make hybrid pathogens with genetic material from more than one virus; pathogens that could elude diagnostic tests; and pathogens made up of both bacteria and viruses. The Soviets had the ability to produce massive amounts of anthrax agent and other pathogens, according to a 2002 Congressional Research Service report.
> 
> The United States also had a formidable weapons program. The military had a research and development lab at Ft. Detrick in Maryland, an open-air test site in Utah, and a production plant in Arkansas which produced biological agents and filled them into delivery devices, including spray tanks, bombs, and bomblets. According to a 2009 National Defense University case study, the program’s wares included lethal antipersonnel agents, incapacitating agents, and anti-crop weapons. The offensive program, however, ended in 1969, when President Richard Nixon, after an internal review, unilaterally abandoned the weapons and had the US stockpile destroyed.
> 
> That review found that pathogens take time to incubate, making them an impractical weapon during battle, and that they could mutate or establish themselves in animal species. Officials reasoned bioweapons couldn’t be used first without drawing international condemnation and, moreover, that the country had a powerful nuclear arsenal to deter an attack. The Army destroyed its supplies of the pathogens that cause anthrax, tuleremia, and other diseases between 1971 and 1972, along with tens of thousands of munitions filled with biological agents, according to the case study. The United States ratified the Biological Weapons Convention in 1975.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The US military tested biological warfare agents using the One-Million-Liter Test Sphere, also called the Eight Ball, at Ft. Detrick in Maryland. Credit: US Army.
> 
> *How have biological weapons been tested?* At Ft. Detrick, military researchers used a giant steel sphere known as the Eight Ball to test aerosolized agents on military volunteers. At the Dugway Proving Ground in the Utah desert, researchers conducted open-air experimentation, where germs were spread on the wind toward soldiers who had volunteered for tests. While researchers used animals in offensive weapons tests, the purpose of human tests was murkier, Koblentz said. More than 2,000 conscientious objectors, mainly from the Seventh-Day Adventist Church, participated in the Project Whitecoat program. That effort exposed volunteers to several diseases, including tularemia, which was eventually standardized as a biological weapons agent. The experiments led to knowledge that could be used in both in offensive weapons and for defensive purposes, Koblentz said.
> 
> The military also conducted various tests in public places using agents that could simulate dangerous pathogens. For example, researchers in the 1950 exposed the San Francisco Bay-area to aerosolized _Bacillus globigii _and _Serratia marcescens_, bacteria which were thought to be benign. According to the Surgeon General’s report, however, there were subsequent reports of infections in the surrounding communities.
> 
> Bioweapons accidents in the Soviet Union led to several deaths.
> 
> In 1971, a research vessel on the Aral Sea sailed near Vozrozhdeniya Island and into a “brownish haze.” The island was an out-door Soviet bioweapons testing site, and the haze was aerosolized version of the virus that causes smallpox. An infected crew member took the virus back home and nine people fell sick in a subsequent outbreak; three including the researcher’s brother died, according to a BBC report.
> 
> One of the worst bioweapons accidents happened in 1979 when anthrax spores leaked from a plant in the city of Sverdlovsk, now called Yekaterinburg. The leak killed at least 66 people, and perhaps more. A team that included Jeanne Guillemin and Matthew Meselson, noted bioweapons experts, plotted where each of the victims had been and, based on meteorological data, placed them in a zone downwind from the weapons plant known as Compound 19. The research showed that perhaps even less than 1 gram of anthrax spores—equivalent to a quarter teaspoon of salt—could kill many people. Had the wind been blowing toward Sverdlovsk, the death toll could have been far higher.
> 
> In 1992, former Russian President Boris Yeltsin acknowledged that the Sverdlovks outbreak had been caused by military activity and ordered an end to Russia’s offensive bioweapons program that year.
> 
> *How can bioweapons programs be identified? *Identifying a bioweapons program is no easy task, Koblentz said. That’s because many of the pathogens and equipment that would be necessary for an offensive program also have legitimate uses: “You can’t just look at a facility and say, ‘Oh, you have a fermenter of this size, therefore, it is civilian, or therefore it is part of a bioweapons program.’” The same goes for pathogen strains, he said. Labs might have virulent anthrax in order to produce vaccines or detection systems, for example, or because they’re dealing with public health outbreaks in the area. “Just seeing something there is by no means sufficient,” Koblentz said.
> 
> But by analyzing various facts about a site, Koblentz said, a facility’s true intention can be apparent.
> 
> Near the Kazakhstani city of Stepnogorsk, a Soviet biological weapons production facility contained “towering fermenters” that could produce two tons of anthrax in a day. The Stepnogorsk plant also produced civilian products, but the purpose of the facility was clear to analysts. “There was no plausible civilian rationale for having that production capacity,” Koblentz said. “Next door to that production building there were fortified bunkers that were designed to store the ammunition that this anthrax would go into. So looking at this combination of facilities and capabilities, you could say this is a biological weapons production facility.”
> 
> Inspectors and analysts don’t have access to all facilities they suspect of being involved in biological weapons activities. The US government, for instance, has alleged that Russia still maintains an offensive biological weapons program. Even without access, Koblentz said, there are ways to assess whether a country has an offensive program. The US government, for example, has accused a military facility at Sergiev Posad of being part of the program. “The fact that this is a military facility, it’s top secret, no outsiders are allowed in, [the] lack of transparency in itself is a tell,” Koblentz said.
> 
> In contrast, Koblentz said, the recent Russian allegations of illegitimate biological research being conducted in Ukraine rely on publicly available information. “The Russians were putting up slides being used at scientific conferences. These researchers are publishing in peer reviewed journals, right?” he said. “You don’t do that if you’re trying to hide a secret bioweapons program in Ukraine.”
> 
> *How are biological weapons regulated? *The Biological Weapons Convention has 183 members, called states parties. By contrast, just 10 countries have not signed or ratified the treaty. The treaty doesn’t ban pathogens or the equipment like fermenters used to work with them, biosecurity expert Filippa Lentzos said at a recent event. “We’re saying, ‘You’re not allowed to use it if it’s not for peaceful purposes.’ It comes down to intent.” While the convention has helped shape norms against biological weapons, some observers point to a gap in the agreement, the lack of a “formal verification regime to monitor compliance.” As it stands, members participate in confidence-building measures, for example, by sharing reports on biological research centers and biodefense initiatives. Violating the treaty, Koblentz said, doesn’t necessarily come with a steep price. “The treaty itself doesn’t have any real penalties and given the difficulty of proving in an unclassified way that a country is in violation—it’s challenging,” he said. “That’s been a major weakness in the whole bioweapons non-proliferation regime from the beginning.”
> 
> Part of why the Soviet Union proceeded to expand its bioweapons program after joining the Biological Weapons Convention was because officials thought that Nixon’s order to end the US offensive program was a ruse and that the United States was continuing to develop offensive capabilities. Some fear that false accusations about bioweapons programs, like the recent Russian disinformation, could erode trust and weaken the norm that prohibits the operation of clandestine programs. Well-documented cases of countries using bioweapons in war have been rare. But if a country were to reverse course, as the Sverdlovks anthrax leak suggests, the results could be catastrophic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amid false Russian allegations of US “biolabs” in Ukraine, it’s worth asking: What is a bioweapon?
> 
> 
> Just what is a bioweapon anyway? Production and research facilities for these destructive weapons aren't always easy to spot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thebulletin.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - - - -
> 
> Russia and Kazakhstan should also be investigated for bioweapons program on the grounds of TRANSPARENCY and FAIRNESS.
> 
> Agreed?
> 
> Pot calling Kettle black otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my gosh...
> 
> Let us consider the example of the famous Chinese virologist Zhengli Shi:
> 
> _Prof. Shi is the director of the Center for Emerging Infectious Diseases of the Wuhan Institute of Virology. She got her Ph.D training at Montpellier University II, France, from 1996 to 2000. Her research focuses on viral pathogen discovery through traditional and high-throughput sequencing techniques. She has been studying the wildlife-borne viral pathogens, particularly bat-borne viruses since 2004. Her group has discovered diverse novel viruses/virus antibodies in bats, including SARS-like coronaviruses, adenoviruses, adeno-associated viruses, circoviruses, paramyxoviruses and filoviruses in China. One of her great contributions is to uncover genetically diverse SARS-like coronaviruses in bats with her international collaborators and provide unequivocal evidence that bats are natural reservoirs of SARS-CoV. She has coauthored >130 publications on viral pathogen identification, diagnosis and epidemiology._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zhengli Shi - World Society for Virology
> 
> 
> The director of the Center for Emerging Infectious Diseases of the Wuhan Institute of Virology, Chinese Academy of Sciences.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ws-virology.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She should be arrested for her experiments on samples of the coronavirus among others?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Public statement for collaboration on COVID-19 vaccine development
> 
> 
> Under WHO’s coordination, a group of experts with diverse backgrounds is working towards the development of vaccines against COVID-19.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.who.int
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many countries around the world have established Institutes of Virology (Medical Sciences initiative). These institutes collect and store virus samples for research purposes and attempt to develop vaccines. These institutes exist in Iran, Pakistan, China and Russia as well.
> 
> It would be rather convenient to misrepresent these practices for bioweapons research with cyberwarfare initiatives.
> 
> Get it now?
> 
> - - - -
> 
> It makes sense to move those virus samples out from war-torn Ukraine if they were stored in any medical facility. Russian forces are shelling Ukrainian towns and cities and these activities could result in leaks of viruses which will exacerbate humanitarian crisis in the region.



This is whataboutism. We are talking about US bioweapons in the Ukraine are we ?
What you post is US narrative, not facts. It is clear that USA has something to hide.





FACTS:
*US owes world an answer on bio lab: Global Times editorial*
By Global Times Published: Mar 11, 2022 11:54 PM






The Russian Defense Ministry released on Thursday documents it acquired from the personnel of a bio lab in Ukraine. The documents expose the US and its NATO allies' research on biological weapons in Ukraine, including research on spreading the highly infectious bird flu virus through migratory birds and on pathogens such as bacteria and viruses that can be transmitted from bats to humans. Russia said the documents show that a large number of serum samples belonging to the Slavs have been transferred and that the experiments in Ukraine are similar to what Japan's Unit 731 did in WWII. The documents were uploaded online by Russia for free download.

The US reaction has somewhat missed the point. White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki made eight consecutive tweets to condemn Russia for spreading disinformation, but advoided mentioning about the US' bio lab in Ukraine. She claimed that "we should all be on the lookout for Russia to possibly use chemical or biological weapons in Ukraine." But she didn't offer any evidence. Such condemnation didn't help clear the doubts of people around the world. Instead, such a response is pale and illogical.

*Nevertheless, US Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland confirmed during a hearing that Ukraine has "biological research facilities"* when asked if Ukraine has bioweapons. She also said the US is working with Ukraine to prevent Russia from getting "those research materials."

The contradictive remarks futher deepened the world's doubts about the US. Does the US have a bio lab in Ukraine? Why did the labs rush to destroy the materials right after Russia-Ukraine conflict started on February 24? Are those labs engaged in scientific research or weaponizing the research results? What is the relation between the Pentagon and the US' 336 bio labs around the world? How does the US guarantee the safety of those labs? Why has the US been exclusively blocking the establishment of the verification mechanism of the Biological Weapons Convention for more than 20 years? What is it worried about? What exactly is the connection between the Fort Detrick lab and the COVID-19 pandemic?

Biological military activities are not trivial. It is reasonable and legitimate for the international community to question the US for that. Right after WWII, the US spent 250,000 yen (several thousand US dollars at that time) on acquiring the infamous Unit 731's data, but never published what the data was used for. In nearly 30 years, the number of P4 labs on US soil increased by 750 percent - accompanied by an increasing risk of virus leakage. Because of protests from within, the US chose to establish labs overseas. Over the years, however, there have been deadly leaks linked to US military biological labs in Ukraine, South Korea, Kazakhstan and Georgia. But angry protests in those countries were simply crushed by the US manipulating public opinion.

Biological weapons are seen as weapons of mass destruction together with nuclear and chemical weapons. Any suspicion of private development of biological weapons must be promptly investigated. Russia's information release was very specific and should draw the attention of the international community. The veracity of those materials must be determined by a multi-party inspection team led by an authoritative international organization, rather than by the US alone. The US should know that smearing others cannot bleach itself. If it is really innocent as it claims, it should take the opportunity to publish what is the truth and receive multi-party investigations to prove its innocence.

It must be pointed out that this was an accidental discovery in the Russia-Ukraine conflict, which has nothing to do with the conflict itself. The determination of the merits of this incident should not be linked to the position on the Russia-Ukraine issue. The international community, including Europe, should put strong pressure on the US and not be swayed by the disinformation claims of Washington. The US owes the world an answer on this matter.
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202203/1254649.shtml?id=11

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507618419536977927

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507453387515826213

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## fallschirmjager786

Talk about trolling.



Vergennes said:


> Azov in Mariupol. Note the destroyed Russian vehicles marked with "O". Means forces from the northern offensive were redeployed to Mariupol.
> View attachment 827570



Not surprised, ever since they got torn up near Kyiv and the NE, they are going to redeploy to the South and SE. Epic failure, Mariuopol still standing.


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## bobo6661

Piotr said:


> Chechen forcies are risking their lives to liberate Mariupol and save civilians from Banderites. It is disrespectful to call this PR initiative.


I have no words

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## oberschlesier

The SC said:


> The situation in Ukraine:
> 
> - Russia is advancing..
> - Ukraine and the West have a crushing media victory..which turns into failure with the achievement of Russian goals on the ground..


Russia is advancing slowly and have multiple Problems. They can win the ground, but strategically this is already costing them a lot.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507711151689375750

Reactions: Like Like:
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## DF41

Viet said:


> Hydrogen is not an option because hydrogen has low efficiency otherwise Germany does it long ago.
> 
> Will be an interesting challenge
> Germany will cut Russia oil imports to zero by 2023 and gas to zero by 2024.


🤔

Will Russia need to wait to 2023 for Germany to cut oil imports to zero?

Will Russia need to wait to 2024 for gas to zero?



What is Russia cut all that to zero by Apri 1 this year? Not an April Fool joke either!


----------



## thetutle

sammuel said:


> Putting this aside , i doubt many forum members here care if one orchestra decided to play Tsiolkovsky or not.
> 
> But the picture that Mr Putin tried to describe , as if " the west " is banning Russian composers and writers , Just cause one independent orchestra in the UK , decided not to play this piece , simply has no connection to reality.
> 
> Beside it is Russia , not the west that suffers from limitation on freedom of expression. And i think you know that well enough.
> 
> To compare that to _*Kristallnacht*_ as , Putin tried to do is an insult to history and our intelligence.
> 
> ~


Tchykovski was a homosexual half Russian half Ukrainian. Who cares if he was played or not. No one is banning any half Russian/ukranian composer.


----------



## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> Meanwhile American volunteers are throwing OPSEC out of the window and posting on TikTok:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507088275193806866


Well, I don't think any OPSEC is violated, I mean, they aren't broadcasting the fight when are are fighting. That video come after the battle is done and dusted, that unit may not even at Irpin by the time they had released this video (most likely back to Kyiv, don't think you have internet or mobile connection in Irpin now) 

The only thing they show is they are American (which we know for sure they were over there) and they liberated Irpin. 

Had to say tho, I haven't watch the entire video, there were like a 5 second clip that was shown on MSNBC...

On the other hand, the Chinese on this tweet feels like translation to me......

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## jhungary

oberschlesier said:


> Russia is advancing slowly and have multiple Problems. They can win the ground, but strategically this is already costing them a lot.


The main problem for the Russian is Ukrainian is making them pay using the road network, by making them pay, I am not talking about making them pay money for the toll. But rather the Ukrainian let the Russian use the road and made out with Hit and Run tactics. 

The Russian have not occupied many countryside, in fact, they still failed to take Chernihiv, which mean the Ukrainian have more freedom to hit the Russian as is.

I am increasingly believe the Northern Attack is all but abandoned. If so, Russia would probably better off withdraw otherwise Ukraine will counter attack once they have enough number to do so, and since the Russian weren't occupying a whole lot of land there, that will turn into a bloodbath for the Russian...

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507715142217314307


----------



## DF41

Pope Francis really did something!

"Vatican diplomats issued a statement denouncing NATO and the EU's intervention in Ukraine; denouncing the US, NATO and EU for deliberately creating imbalances and hindering a peaceful resolution of the crisis in Ukraine; denouncing the West for manipulating the media and creating their own rules in Ukraine to allow Zelens Ki and Nazi perpetrators at large: "They created a trap not only for Russia and Ukraine, but for the whole of Europe!""

https://m.weibo.cn/1647486362/4744562192679009
This is the original text. The Pope had previously endured knee pain and went to the Russian embassy in the Vatican to express his concern about the military action. Then I said he was extraordinary. I believe that the restraint of the Russian army should have his influence.

https://www.marcotosatti.com/2022/0...carlo-maria-vigano-sulla-crisi-russo-ucraina/
There is a lack of powerful people in the world to stand up and point out what is right and wrong. This time the Pope has stood up. The United States must be very uncomfortable. Not everyone will bury their conscience like the United States. Good people, the evils they have committed are indescribable, and there are thousands of truths and only one truth.


----------



## UKBengali

Wow, it looks like the Ukrainians may actually be pushing the Russians back on all fronts.

If this carries on, then sometime in April the Russians could be pretty much back to their starting positions and only gained some territory on the Donbas.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507722306310709252


UKBengali said:


> Wow, it looks like the Ukrainians may actually be pushing the Russians back on all fronts.
> 
> If this carries on, then sometime in April the Russians could be pretty much back to their starting positions and only gained some territory on the Donbas.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507720006003412992


----------



## Wood

UKBengali said:


> Wow, it looks like the Ukrainians may actually be pushing the Russians back on all fronts.
> 
> If this carries on, then sometime in April the Russians could be pretty much back to their starting positions and only gained some territory on the Donbas.


Russians have already said that they don't want any Ukrainian cities. They are just there because they took a wrong turn while going to work one day

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## dBSPL

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507654480921255938


I think this is a provocation. The Turkish state has already asked both Ukraine and Russia for an official explanation on the issue.

There is no current in the Black Sea to carry these mines so fast. These mines cannot travel 600 km in just one week.

While there is not a single mine detection on the Turkish Romanian or Bulgarian coasts, the first mine detection directly in the Bosphorus is extremely suspicious.

The Black Sea region is a very busy maritime trade area, especially in terms of small tonnage ships. No visual contact with a mine has been reported to date. Coast guard and demining flotillas of coastal states have not made any detections to date.

In addition, the mines in question should have some security mechanisms in accordance with the relevant regulations. The mine that comes to the surface or the bottom connection is broken must lock itself.

Trying to detonate a mine in the Bosphorus is a dangerous game that will produce very dangerous results for the country carrying out this covert attack.

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## Meengla

The SC said:


> The situation in Ukraine:
> 
> - Russia is advancing..
> - Ukraine and the West have a crushing media victory..which turns into failure with the achievement of Russian goals on the ground..





oberschlesier said:


> Russia is advancing slowly and have multiple Problems. They can win the ground, but strategically this is already costing them a lot.



I had posted a video from the Mark Felton channel about the Russian invasion of Finland in late 1930s. Russia got a really bloody nose but managed to grab enough land to make Finland accept neutrality. 
Very likely similar outcome in this war, too.

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## Skull and Bones

jamahir said:


> So, like the NASA prototype your proposal also used helium gas as the "vacuum" or was it actual vacuum ? Was this before the 2012 work at NASA or after ? Do create a thread in the 'Technology & Science' section because it will be useful to me and others. Best are such ideas to be open source. I am especially interested in this because NASA says such transistors are resistant to space radiation.


I will have to show the fabrication steps to make you understand the whole process, the idea was to have the gap so small (below mean free path) that electrons will behave like it’s vacuum, and will follow ballistic transport model. 

We were working in this in 2015-2016.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507721445132054536
Hope it's true

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507730075944370183

Clown show

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## LeGenD

Piotr said:


> Chechen forcies are risking their lives to liberate Mariupol and save civilians from Banderites. It is disrespectful to call this PR initiative.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What this video is meant to prove ? This is only small part of Mariupol. Compare all of Mariupol with all of Fallujah.
> 
> The Globeandmail ? Really ? This is Anglosaxon media. They lied about alleged WMD in Iraq. They have zero credibility.
> 
> 
> 
> This is whataboutism. We are talking about US bioweapons in the Ukraine are we ?
> What you post is US narrative, not facts. It is clear that USA has something to hide.
> View attachment 827591
> 
> 
> FACTS:
> *US owes world an answer on bio lab: Global Times editorial*
> By Global Times Published: Mar 11, 2022 11:54 PM
> 
> View attachment 827593
> 
> 
> The Russian Defense Ministry released on Thursday documents it acquired from the personnel of a bio lab in Ukraine. The documents expose the US and its NATO allies' research on biological weapons in Ukraine, including research on spreading the highly infectious bird flu virus through migratory birds and on pathogens such as bacteria and viruses that can be transmitted from bats to humans. Russia said the documents show that a large number of serum samples belonging to the Slavs have been transferred and that the experiments in Ukraine are similar to what Japan's Unit 731 did in WWII. The documents were uploaded online by Russia for free download.
> 
> The US reaction has somewhat missed the point. White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki made eight consecutive tweets to condemn Russia for spreading disinformation, but advoided mentioning about the US' bio lab in Ukraine. She claimed that "we should all be on the lookout for Russia to possibly use chemical or biological weapons in Ukraine." But she didn't offer any evidence. Such condemnation didn't help clear the doubts of people around the world. Instead, such a response is pale and illogical.
> 
> *Nevertheless, US Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland confirmed during a hearing that Ukraine has "biological research facilities"* when asked if Ukraine has bioweapons. She also said the US is working with Ukraine to prevent Russia from getting "those research materials."
> 
> The contradictive remarks futher deepened the world's doubts about the US. Does the US have a bio lab in Ukraine? Why did the labs rush to destroy the materials right after Russia-Ukraine conflict started on February 24? Are those labs engaged in scientific research or weaponizing the research results? What is the relation between the Pentagon and the US' 336 bio labs around the world? How does the US guarantee the safety of those labs? Why has the US been exclusively blocking the establishment of the verification mechanism of the Biological Weapons Convention for more than 20 years? What is it worried about? What exactly is the connection between the Fort Detrick lab and the COVID-19 pandemic?
> 
> Biological military activities are not trivial. It is reasonable and legitimate for the international community to question the US for that. Right after WWII, the US spent 250,000 yen (several thousand US dollars at that time) on acquiring the infamous Unit 731's data, but never published what the data was used for. In nearly 30 years, the number of P4 labs on US soil increased by 750 percent - accompanied by an increasing risk of virus leakage. Because of protests from within, the US chose to establish labs overseas. Over the years, however, there have been deadly leaks linked to US military biological labs in Ukraine, South Korea, Kazakhstan and Georgia. But angry protests in those countries were simply crushed by the US manipulating public opinion.
> 
> Biological weapons are seen as weapons of mass destruction together with nuclear and chemical weapons. Any suspicion of private development of biological weapons must be promptly investigated. Russia's information release was very specific and should draw the attention of the international community. The veracity of those materials must be determined by a multi-party inspection team led by an authoritative international organization, rather than by the US alone. The US should know that smearing others cannot bleach itself. If it is really innocent as it claims, it should take the opportunity to publish what is the truth and receive multi-party investigations to prove its innocence.
> 
> It must be pointed out that this was an accidental discovery in the Russia-Ukraine conflict, which has nothing to do with the conflict itself. The determination of the merits of this incident should not be linked to the position on the Russia-Ukraine issue. The international community, including Europe, should put strong pressure on the US and not be swayed by the disinformation claims of Washington. The US owes the world an answer on this matter.
> https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202203/1254649.shtml?id=11



*1.* Chechen forces are risking their lives to LIBERATE Mariupol and save civilians? Mashallah. Did the Mayor of Mariupol Vadym Boichenko request Russian forces and their Chechen puppets to liberate his city?

*EXCUSE ME, please.*

Mariupol is one of the locations in Ukraine where invading forces have encountered heavy resistance on the ground (30 days and counting) - this could *NOT* be possible if Mariupol citizens were *NOT* onboard.

*2.* Small part of Mariupol? Mariupol is *NOT* a big city to begin with - it is home to 400,000 citizens in total.

Map of Mariupol is shown in following footage:






The footage also provides evidence of Russians using thermobaric weapons to bombard sectors of the city.









Watch: Russia's terrifying vacuum bomb blasts Mariupol


Footage has emerged showing Russian soldiers firing thermobaric missiles into the Ukrainian city of Mariupol, proving the illegal use




www.bolnews.com





Ground realities of Mariupol are well-documented in the following link:









Escape From Mariupol: 'The Dead Were Buried In The Yards'


From the time the rockets began to hit until his flight from the city, a man from Mariupol describes the progression of the Russian onslaught on the Donbas port, which has been one of the places that has been hardest-hit in the unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.




www.rferl.org





This footage shows some Mariupol citizens who managed to flee the city:






Do they look happy to you?

More survivors talking now:









Ukraine war: Survivor of Mariupol theatre bombing says crush of panicked crowd 'killed more people than the strike itself'


Survivor Maria Radionova, who was standing at the entrance as a bomb hit the Mariupol theatre, said there was a "huge commotion" in the aftermath of the Russian airstrike that killed around 300 people.




news.sky.com





Liberation scenes, right?

Russian liberation activities in Mariupol caught on camera:






- - - -

Why you bringing Iraq into our conversation? My POV is in following post:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


It`s not nationalism, it`s pragmatism. Being in the Warsaw pact, that was probably the only defence pact in the history, that invaded their own members + crapy economy under the soviet union did the job. Well no NATO member decided to leave yet,that's why. Imagine if one of the eastern...



defence.pk





I have always maintained that US/NATO assaulted Iraq on controversial and questionable grounds (bad decision).

*But* to address your curiosity, American troops discovered hidden caches of chemical weapons in Iraq from time-to-time:









The Secret Casualties of Iraq’s Abandoned Chemical Weapons (Published 2014)


The Pentagon kept silent as munitions left over from Saddam Hussein’s war with Iran found new targets from 2004 to 2011: American and Iraqi troops.




www.nytimes.com













Pentagon Reportedly Hushed Up Chemical Weapons Finds In Iraq


The New York Times reports that between 2004 and 2011, American troops repeatedly encountered chemical weapons caches dating from the Iran-Iraq war. At least 17 U.S. service members were injured.




www.npr.org













US Troops Found Huge Caches Of Chemical Weapons In Iraq — And The Pentagon Tried To Keep It A Secret


Unreal.




www.businessinsider.com.au





_*But*_ these finds were detrimental to Democratic politics and narrative against the Republicans and Obama administration instructed Pentagon to keep these finds under wraps.

There is more - an Iraqi defector Adnan Ihsan Saeed al-Haideri informed Bush administration about Iraqi WMD program.









Defector reveals extent of Iraqi weapons programme


An Iraqi defector has claimed Saddam Hussein is developing a missile system which could deliver chemical, biological and eventually nuclear warheads to five Middle Eastern capitals, writes Chris Alden.




www.theguardian.com













A NATION CHALLENGED: SECRET SITES; Iraqi Tells of Renovations at Sites For Chemical and Nuclear Arms (Published 2001)


Iraqi defector says he personally worked on renovations of secret facilities for biological, chemical and nuclear weapons in underground wells, private villas and under hospital in Baghdad as recently as year ago; defector, Adnan Ihsan Saeed al-Haideri, who says he is civil engineer, gives...




www.nytimes.com





Multiple Iraqi nationals were involved in building a case against Saddam regime:





__





Interviews - Dr. Ahmad Chalabi | The Survival Of Saddam | FRONTLINE | PBS






www.pbs.org







https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2015/11/ahmad-chalabi-proponent-of-iraq-war-is-dead.html



These Iraqi nationals knew that George W. Bush would be the most sympathetic POTUS and their best shot given his family legacy.

- - - -

*3.* You are clutching to SEMANTICS now.

_"With Russian President Vladimir Putin showing no sign of backing down on his country’s assault on Ukraine, US officials are trying to prevent the Russian military from capturing pathogens stored in US-affiliated research labs in Ukraine, where they could potentially mischaracterize activities at the facilities. It’s an urgent task, given that the director of the US military program that works with Ukrainian public and animal health labs said some are in cities now under attack.

At the end of February, Robert Pope, the director of the Cooperative Threat Reduction Program, said his program had lost contact with the Ukrainian labs. In an update on Friday, he said that officials had communicated with authorities responsible for facilities run by the Ukrainian Ministry of Health but not with those overseeing the veterinary health institutions the US government also partners with in the country.

Several of those labs are in cities being attacked now, Pope said. “Should Russian forces occupy a city with one of these facilities, we are concerned that Russia will fabricate ‘evidence’ of nefarious activity in an attempt to lend credibility to their ongoing disinformation about these facilities.”

On the veterinary health side, the Defense Threat Reduction Agency supports 14 facilities and diagnostic laboratories, Pope said. “Most of these facilities are regional diagnostic veterinary laboratories that provide Ukraine with animal sample collection ability and basic laboratory capabilities for initial diagnostics of potential diseases in Ukraine’s animal population. They are part of the network of labs that help Ukraine prevent, detect, and respond to animal diseases like African swine fever,” he said.

Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs Victoria Nuland echoed Pope’s concerns about the security of the US-linked labs at a Senate hearing Tuesday. “Ukraine has biological research facilities, which, in fact, we are now quite concerned Russian troops, Russian forces may be seeking to gain control of, so we are working with the Ukrainians on how they can prevent any of those research materials from falling into the hands of Russian forces should they approach,” she said.

Pope’s fears that the invasion will expose the labs to new disinformation narratives does not appear far-fetched. Already at least one figure with links to the Russian disinformation ecosystem is broadcasting plans to bring journalists into war-torn Ukraine to tour US-affiliated labs there.

John Mark Dougan, a former American police officer who claims to have political asylum in Russia, has put up at least five videos on YouTube in recent days saying that Ukraine is hosting US bioweapons labs; some of the videos have been viewed nearly 30,000 times. In one video, he claims to have secured permission to go to the labs. “I said, ‘Look, I want to get a bunch of journalists, truth seeking journalists together, and I want to do a tour of these laboratories,’” Dougan said, inviting journalists to contact him for the supposed trip."_









In Ukraine, US-military-linked labs could provide fodder for Russian disinformation


Robert Pope, director of the US Cooperative Threat Reduction Program is worried that US-linked labs in Ukraine, if they are in cities overrun by Russian forces, may serve as fodder for disinformation efforts about US activities. Meanwhile, a YouTuber with ties to the Russian disinformation...




thebulletin.org





Many countries have "biological research facilities."

China have over 200 such:





__





New Research Centers - Biotechnology in China - NCBI Bookshelf






www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov





I have given you plenty of food for thought and information to reflect upon in my posts but you keep pushing it.

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## dBSPL

The Russians destroyed the Ukrainian BUK-M1 with the 9M723 TBM, Iskander-M. While Ukraine neutralized the same systems with the extremely cheap MAM-L, Russia uses multi-million dollar ballistic missiles.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507678751093522434It may be a more costly attack method than the destroyed system itself.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## sammuel

DF41 said:


> Pope Francis really did something!
> 
> "Vatican diplomats issued a statement denouncing NATO and the EU's intervention in Ukraine; denouncing the US, NATO and EU for deliberately creating imbalances and hindering a peaceful resolution of the crisis in Ukraine; denouncing the West for manipulating the media and creating their own rules in Ukraine to allow Zelens Ki and Nazi perpetrators at large: "They created a trap not only for Russia and Ukraine, but for the whole of Europe!""



SOURCE ? ? ?

Sounds like invented BS to me.

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## Ich

dBSPL said:


> I think this is a provocation. The Turkish state has already asked both Ukraine and Russia for an official explanation on the issue.
> 
> There is no current in the Black Sea to carry these mines so fast. These mines cannot travel 600 km in just one week.
> 
> While there is not a single mine detection on the Turkish Romanian or Bulgarian coasts, the first mine detection directly in the Bosphorus is extremely suspicious.
> 
> The Black Sea region is a very busy maritime trade area, especially in terms of small tonnage ships. No visual contact with a mine has been reported to date. Coast guard and demining flotillas of coastal states have not made any detections to date.
> 
> In addition, the mines in question should have some security mechanisms in accordance with the relevant regulations. The mine that comes to the surface or the bottom connection is broken must lock itself.
> 
> Trying to detonate a mine in the Bosphorus is a dangerous game that will produce very dangerous results for the country carrying out this covert attack.


Maybe try of false flag from the west. Turkey do a good job.

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## Viet

DF41 said:


> 🤔
> 
> Will Russia need to wait to 2023 for Germany to cut oil imports to zero?
> 
> Will Russia need to wait to 2024 for gas to zero?
> 
> 
> 
> What is Russia cut all that to zero by Apri 1 this year? Not an April Fool joke either!


Putin will lose $250 million per day if he stops gas exports to Germany the question is who will suffer more.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507734575782502401

Reactions: Love Love:
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## dBSPL

Ich said:


> Maybe try of false flag from the west. Turkey do a good job.


If Turkey is pushed into the war, NATO ships will have a legal basis to enter the Black Sea.

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## bobo6661

sammuel said:


> SOURCE ? ? ?


Kreml i guess









Pope Condemns 'Violent Aggression' Against Ukraine, But Doesn't Mention Russia By Name


Pope Francis, in some of his harshest implied criticism yet of Russia, decried the “violent aggression” against Ukraine and said there was no justification for the “senseless massacre” that is occurring in the besieged country.




www.rferl.org


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507370826387046407Another example of psyop on social media

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## sammuel

bobo6661 said:


> Kreml i guess
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pope Condemns 'Violent Aggression' Against Ukraine, But Doesn't Mention Russia By Name
> 
> 
> Pope Francis, in some of his harshest implied criticism yet of Russia, decried the “violent aggression” against Ukraine and said there was no justification for the “senseless massacre” that is occurring in the besieged country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rferl.org



Well , he did attach a " source " but it was unreadable for obvious reasons ...


----------



## thetutle

Watching C-Span dial in segment. (Yes what a great social life I have on Saturday night) where Americans dial in and tell everyone what they think of Bidens performance in Ukraine. 

Democrats all support him, independents mainly support his actions, while some think he should do more. Republicans mainly think he is doing a terrible job, and when prompted what he should do instead, they suggest anything from sending F22's and F-35's to wipe the Russian army out to telling Ukraine to surrender. 

Generally, there are a lot of crazy people in America.

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## bobo6661

sammuel said:


> Well , he did attach a " source " but it was unreadable for obvious reasons ...


yee no idea what that was 

the other link was to retired archbishop

In January 2016, Archbishop Vigano submitted his resignation as required when he turned 75 years old. On 12 April 2016, Pope Francis accepted Viganò's resignation and named Archbishop Christophe Pierre to succeed him as nuncio to the United States.[38]

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## Wood

Russia apparently wants Ukraine to reduce their army to 1/5 of it current size in informal talks.  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507713435252973568

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## Clutch

UKBengali said:


> Wow, it looks like the Ukrainians may actually be pushing the Russians back on all fronts.
> 
> If this carries on, then sometime in April the Russians could be pretty much back to their starting positions and only gained some territory on the Donbas.



It might get even more interesting if the Ukrainian actually push back into Russia. Imagine that... Ukrainian invading a part of southern Russia to create a buffer zone.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507740939661549568

Stole a 50 cal machine gun


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507740149924380677

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## Clutch

Piotr said:


> Chechen forcies are risking their lives to liberate Mariupol and save civilians from Banderites. It is disrespectful to call this PR initiative.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What this video is meant to prove ? This is only small part of Mariupol. Compare all of Mariupol with all of Fallujah.
> 
> The Globeandmail ? Really ? This is Anglosaxon media. They lied about alleged WMD in Iraq. They have zero credibility.
> 
> 
> 
> This is whataboutism. We are talking about US bioweapons in the Ukraine are we ?
> What you post is US narrative, not facts. It is clear that USA has something to hide.
> View attachment 827591
> 
> 
> FACTS:
> *US owes world an answer on bio lab: Global Times editorial*
> By Global Times Published: Mar 11, 2022 11:54 PM
> 
> View attachment 827593
> 
> 
> The Russian Defense Ministry released on Thursday documents it acquired from the personnel of a bio lab in Ukraine. The documents expose the US and its NATO allies' research on biological weapons in Ukraine, including research on spreading the highly infectious bird flu virus through migratory birds and on pathogens such as bacteria and viruses that can be transmitted from bats to humans. Russia said the documents show that a large number of serum samples belonging to the Slavs have been transferred and that the experiments in Ukraine are similar to what Japan's Unit 731 did in WWII. The documents were uploaded online by Russia for free download.
> 
> The US reaction has somewhat missed the point. White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki made eight consecutive tweets to condemn Russia for spreading disinformation, but advoided mentioning about the US' bio lab in Ukraine. She claimed that "we should all be on the lookout for Russia to possibly use chemical or biological weapons in Ukraine." But she didn't offer any evidence. Such condemnation didn't help clear the doubts of people around the world. Instead, such a response is pale and illogical.
> 
> *Nevertheless, US Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland confirmed during a hearing that Ukraine has "biological research facilities"* when asked if Ukraine has bioweapons. She also said the US is working with Ukraine to prevent Russia from getting "those research materials."
> 
> The contradictive remarks futher deepened the world's doubts about the US. Does the US have a bio lab in Ukraine? Why did the labs rush to destroy the materials right after Russia-Ukraine conflict started on February 24? Are those labs engaged in scientific research or weaponizing the research results? What is the relation between the Pentagon and the US' 336 bio labs around the world? How does the US guarantee the safety of those labs? Why has the US been exclusively blocking the establishment of the verification mechanism of the Biological Weapons Convention for more than 20 years? What is it worried about? What exactly is the connection between the Fort Detrick lab and the COVID-19 pandemic?
> 
> Biological military activities are not trivial. It is reasonable and legitimate for the international community to question the US for that. Right after WWII, the US spent 250,000 yen (several thousand US dollars at that time) on acquiring the infamous Unit 731's data, but never published what the data was used for. In nearly 30 years, the number of P4 labs on US soil increased by 750 percent - accompanied by an increasing risk of virus leakage. Because of protests from within, the US chose to establish labs overseas. Over the years, however, there have been deadly leaks linked to US military biological labs in Ukraine, South Korea, Kazakhstan and Georgia. But angry protests in those countries were simply crushed by the US manipulating public opinion.
> 
> Biological weapons are seen as weapons of mass destruction together with nuclear and chemical weapons. Any suspicion of private development of biological weapons must be promptly investigated. Russia's information release was very specific and should draw the attention of the international community. The veracity of those materials must be determined by a multi-party inspection team led by an authoritative international organization, rather than by the US alone. The US should know that smearing others cannot bleach itself. If it is really innocent as it claims, it should take the opportunity to publish what is the truth and receive multi-party investigations to prove its innocence.
> 
> It must be pointed out that this was an accidental discovery in the Russia-Ukraine conflict, which has nothing to do with the conflict itself. The determination of the merits of this incident should not be linked to the position on the Russia-Ukraine issue. The international community, including Europe, should put strong pressure on the US and not be swayed by the disinformation claims of Washington. The US owes the world an answer on this matter.
> https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202203/1254649.shtml?id=11



I believe this may be the Origins of the Covid-19 virus. It was manufactured in Ukraine and "exported" to China to start a bio-war against China. It just got out and came back to bite them. 

So NATO forced Russia to invade Ukraine to reset the crumbling global economic system because war will flush out the bad debts and quantitative easing they did to stop the COVID induced financial Armageddon.

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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507740939661549568
> 
> Stole a 50 cal machine gun




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507743892812222467


----------



## Clutch

Wood said:


> These videos are like ISIS videos in some way. A propaganda tool to recruit other Americans looking for action



They are..
West are promoting their good guys ISIS.... I.e. the Nazi Azov

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507739205895610375


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507641201654181892


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507730524806205440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507742896820264962


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## Clutch

Viet said:


> embarrassing for Russia army.
> more sanctions. It’s harder now for Putin to sell gold.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why the US and allies moved to freeze Russia’s gold
> 
> 
> The restrictions aim to limit the country’s ability to use its international reserves and circumvent sanctions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com



Nations should keep their gold at home in within their own nation's hold.... 

The West can steal your wealth if they wish to do so.

May this Ukraine-Russia war be a lesson for rest of the world's countries that they need to pull out of the Western hostage banking system.

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## jamahir

Bulgarian general : Zelensky will soon surrender​World

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky will soon announce the surrender of the country, Dimitar Shivikov, former commander of the 61st Stryamskaya Mechanized Brigade (battalion commander in Iraq, national commander of the 18th Bulgarian contingent in Afghanistan), stated on the air of the Bulgarian National Radio.





He also set out an opinion that the special operation in Ukraine will end with Moscow's victory.



> "I have no doubt that the Russian Federation with its military contingent will win this conflict," General Dimitar Shivikov said.


As long as Russia's goal is to demilitarise and denazify Ukraine, Bulgaria should not provide any weapons to Kiev, as this would only lead to an escalation of the conflict, the general also said.



> "One does not extinguish fire by pouring gasoline on it," Shivikov added.


Earlier, President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko also spoke about Ukraine's possible surrender. Lukashenko recommended Zelensky should conclude an agreement with Russian President Putin. He also predicted that in case of refusal, Ukraine would be forced to capitulate. Moscow offers Kiev *an absolutely acceptable version of the agreement*, Lukashenko said.



> "If Zelensky does not agree to this, then, believe me, he will have to sign an act of surrender in a short time,” Lukashenko said.


In the interview, Shivikov also stated that Ukraine had been running "an extremely Russophobic policy" since 2004. At the same time, it is Washington that has been manipulating Ukraine from overseas, he added.

---

A bit old news but this is for you, @F-22Raptor :

AUTHOR`S NAME PRAVDA.RU 14.01.2022 19:25
Russian submarine with 160 nukes on board surfaces off US coast​WORLD

Russian nuclear submarine of the Borey project, which carries 16 Bulava ballistic missiles on board, unexpectedly appeared off the coast of the United States, having caused serious concerns in Washington.









> Each of the missiles in service with the submarine is capable of carrying up to ten nuclear warheads. This created an extremely serious danger for the United States, given that the US military have not been able to track the Russian nuclear submarine.


According to _NetEase_ publication, Russian nuclear submarine of the Borey project (according to other sources, it was an Akula project submarine), approached the US coast unnoticed. It was possible to establish the whereabouts of the nuclear submarine with up to 160 nuclear warheads on boards after the sub started going back to the base. A submarine of this class is capable of destroying most of the territory of the United States of America in minutes.

Russian nuclear submarines will be able to constantly patrol the waters near the US coast in the event that Russia decides to build a naval base in Cuba or Venezuela, as representatives for the Russian Foreign Ministry earlier said.

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## Clutch

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507730524806205440
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507742896820264962



They love to hug and kiss white refugees and treat brown skinned refugees like a disease....

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## Ich

dBSPL said:


> If Turkey is pushed into the war, NATO ships will have a legal basis to enter the Black Sea.


Crazy games out there

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507749247252418577


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## PakFactor

LeGenD said:


> *1.* Chechen forces are risking their lives to LIBERATE Mariupol and save civilians? Mashallah. Did the Mayor of Mariupol Vadym Boichenko request Russian forces and their Chechen puppets to liberate his city?
> 
> *EXCUSE ME, please.*
> 
> Mariupol is one of the locations in Ukraine where invading forces have encountered heavy resistance on the ground (30 days and counting) - this could *NOT* be possible if Mariupol citizens were *NOT* onboard.
> 
> *2.* Small part of Mariupol? Mariupol is *NOT* a big city to begin with - it is home to 400,000 citizens in total.
> 
> Map of Mariupol is shown in following footage:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The footage also provides evidence of Russians using thermobaric weapons to bombard sectors of the city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watch: Russia's terrifying vacuum bomb blasts Mariupol
> 
> 
> Footage has emerged showing Russian soldiers firing thermobaric missiles into the Ukrainian city of Mariupol, proving the illegal use
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bolnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ground realities of Mariupol are well-documented in the following link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Escape From Mariupol: 'The Dead Were Buried In The Yards'
> 
> 
> From the time the rockets began to hit until his flight from the city, a man from Mariupol describes the progression of the Russian onslaught on the Donbas port, which has been one of the places that has been hardest-hit in the unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rferl.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This footage shows some Mariupol citizens who managed to flee the city:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do they look happy to you?
> 
> More survivors talking now:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine war: Survivor of Mariupol theatre bombing says crush of panicked crowd 'killed more people than the strike itself'
> 
> 
> Survivor Maria Radionova, who was standing at the entrance as a bomb hit the Mariupol theatre, said there was a "huge commotion" in the aftermath of the Russian airstrike that killed around 300 people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.sky.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liberation scenes, right?
> 
> Russian liberation activities in Mariupol caught on camera:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - - - -
> 
> Why you bringing Iraq into our conversation? My POV is in following post:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> It`s not nationalism, it`s pragmatism. Being in the Warsaw pact, that was probably the only defence pact in the history, that invaded their own members + crapy economy under the soviet union did the job. Well no NATO member decided to leave yet,that's why. Imagine if one of the eastern...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have always maintained that US/NATO assaulted Iraq on controversial and questionable grounds (bad decision).
> 
> *But* to address your curiosity, American troops discovered hidden caches of chemical weapons in Iraq from time-to-time:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Secret Casualties of Iraq’s Abandoned Chemical Weapons (Published 2014)
> 
> 
> The Pentagon kept silent as munitions left over from Saddam Hussein’s war with Iran found new targets from 2004 to 2011: American and Iraqi troops.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pentagon Reportedly Hushed Up Chemical Weapons Finds In Iraq
> 
> 
> The New York Times reports that between 2004 and 2011, American troops repeatedly encountered chemical weapons caches dating from the Iran-Iraq war. At least 17 U.S. service members were injured.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.npr.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US Troops Found Huge Caches Of Chemical Weapons In Iraq — And The Pentagon Tried To Keep It A Secret
> 
> 
> Unreal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.businessinsider.com.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*But*_ these finds were detrimental to Democratic politics and narrative against the Republicans and Obama administration instructed Pentagon to keep these finds under wraps.
> 
> There is more - an Iraqi defector Adnan Ihsan Saeed al-Haideri informed Bush administration about Iraqi WMD program.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Defector reveals extent of Iraqi weapons programme
> 
> 
> An Iraqi defector has claimed Saddam Hussein is developing a missile system which could deliver chemical, biological and eventually nuclear warheads to five Middle Eastern capitals, writes Chris Alden.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A NATION CHALLENGED: SECRET SITES; Iraqi Tells of Renovations at Sites For Chemical and Nuclear Arms (Published 2001)
> 
> 
> Iraqi defector says he personally worked on renovations of secret facilities for biological, chemical and nuclear weapons in underground wells, private villas and under hospital in Baghdad as recently as year ago; defector, Adnan Ihsan Saeed al-Haideri, who says he is civil engineer, gives...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Multiple Iraqi nationals were involved in building a case against Saddam regime:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
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> 
> 
> Interviews - Dr. Ahmad Chalabi | The Survival Of Saddam | FRONTLINE | PBS
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> www.pbs.org
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> https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2015/11/ahmad-chalabi-proponent-of-iraq-war-is-dead.html
> 
> 
> 
> These Iraqi nationals knew that George W. Bush would be the most sympathetic POTUS and their best shot given his family legacy.
> 
> - - - -
> 
> *3.* You are clutching to SEMANTICS now.
> 
> _"With Russian President Vladimir Putin showing no sign of backing down on his country’s assault on Ukraine, US officials are trying to prevent the Russian military from capturing pathogens stored in US-affiliated research labs in Ukraine, where they could potentially mischaracterize activities at the facilities. It’s an urgent task, given that the director of the US military program that works with Ukrainian public and animal health labs said some are in cities now under attack.
> 
> At the end of February, Robert Pope, the director of the Cooperative Threat Reduction Program, said his program had lost contact with the Ukrainian labs. In an update on Friday, he said that officials had communicated with authorities responsible for facilities run by the Ukrainian Ministry of Health but not with those overseeing the veterinary health institutions the US government also partners with in the country.
> 
> Several of those labs are in cities being attacked now, Pope said. “Should Russian forces occupy a city with one of these facilities, we are concerned that Russia will fabricate ‘evidence’ of nefarious activity in an attempt to lend credibility to their ongoing disinformation about these facilities.”
> 
> On the veterinary health side, the Defense Threat Reduction Agency supports 14 facilities and diagnostic laboratories, Pope said. “Most of these facilities are regional diagnostic veterinary laboratories that provide Ukraine with animal sample collection ability and basic laboratory capabilities for initial diagnostics of potential diseases in Ukraine’s animal population. They are part of the network of labs that help Ukraine prevent, detect, and respond to animal diseases like African swine fever,” he said.
> 
> Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs Victoria Nuland echoed Pope’s concerns about the security of the US-linked labs at a Senate hearing Tuesday. “Ukraine has biological research facilities, which, in fact, we are now quite concerned Russian troops, Russian forces may be seeking to gain control of, so we are working with the Ukrainians on how they can prevent any of those research materials from falling into the hands of Russian forces should they approach,” she said.
> 
> Pope’s fears that the invasion will expose the labs to new disinformation narratives does not appear far-fetched. Already at least one figure with links to the Russian disinformation ecosystem is broadcasting plans to bring journalists into war-torn Ukraine to tour US-affiliated labs there.
> 
> John Mark Dougan, a former American police officer who claims to have political asylum in Russia, has put up at least five videos on YouTube in recent days saying that Ukraine is hosting US bioweapons labs; some of the videos have been viewed nearly 30,000 times. In one video, he claims to have secured permission to go to the labs. “I said, ‘Look, I want to get a bunch of journalists, truth seeking journalists together, and I want to do a tour of these laboratories,’” Dougan said, inviting journalists to contact him for the supposed trip."_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Ukraine, US-military-linked labs could provide fodder for Russian disinformation
> 
> 
> Robert Pope, director of the US Cooperative Threat Reduction Program is worried that US-linked labs in Ukraine, if they are in cities overrun by Russian forces, may serve as fodder for disinformation efforts about US activities. Meanwhile, a YouTuber with ties to the Russian disinformation...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thebulletin.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many countries have "biological research facilities."
> 
> China have over 200 such:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
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> 
> 
> New Research Centers - Biotechnology in China - NCBI Bookshelf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have given you plenty of food for thought and information to reflect upon in my posts but you keep pushing it.



Yar to kyu itna parashan ho? Shukar kar koi islami mulk ma navi jang nai ha, aga hamari pati ha. Europe ma lagi ha jalti rai udar kasma nu kan udar. To chara udar katam ho jai tha fir hamari patai karan. 



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507730524806205440
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507742896820264962



I have no emotions or sympathy let these clowns go to countries they fucked over the last two decades at least pretend they care or Gaza and may be I would give two shits.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507732231183384581

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507742384054022149For the last month, Russian oligarchs have been heavily transferring their assets to Turkey. At the end of the month, an official statement was finally made. It seems that Turkey has given assurances to Russia.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507743297988669451In addition, a second S400 purchase is also among the possibilities.-

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## PakFactor

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507742384054022149For the last month, Russian oligarchs have been heavily transferring their assets to Turkey. At the end of the month, an official statement was finally made. It seems that Turkey has given assurances to Russia.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507743297988669451In addition, a second S400 purchase is also among the possibilities.-



Smart move let them bring money into Turkey and invest. I would’ve gone a step further and bring their tech brains and have them working in defense industry (same with Pakistan if we didn’t have a shit political situation).

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## dBSPL

PakFactor said:


> Smart move let them bring money into Turkey and invest. I would’ve gone a step further and bring their tech brains and have them working in defense industry (same with Pakistan if we didn’t have a shit political situation).


According to the some claims, a significant portion of the over 60,000 refugees from Ukraine are the families of people working in the Ukrainian defense industry. So yes, it is perfectly normal to prioritize our interests as Turkey. In this direction, we do not want to lose neither Ukraine nor Russia.

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## Wood

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507742384054022149For the last month, Russian oligarchs have been heavily transferring their assets to Turkey. At the end of the month, an official statement was finally made. It seems that Turkey has given assurances to Russia.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507743297988669451In addition, a second S400 purchase is also among the possibilities.-


This may help Turkey's economy given the recent decline in Lira value.


----------



## dBSPL

Wood said:


> This may help Turkey's economy given the recent decline in Lira value.


We are already one of the most important trade partners of Russia. There is no unilateral commercial activity only from Russia to Turkey. At the same time, Turkish companies have tens of billion-dollar investments and business volume in Russia. On the other hand, a significant part of the big hotels in Antalya region receive Russian investment. Apart from tourism, infrastructure and industrial areas, there are also very strategic cooperation areas, especially nuclear energy. This commercial activity creates the income of tens of thousands of families in both countries. It cannot be said that we could agree on everything with Russia, on the contrary, we waged a proxy war in many places. However, despite all the negativities, both countries are valuable to each other both economically and strategically.

Another thing, The Turkish economy has no liquidity problem. The main problem is western intervention attempts on Turkish economy. I can explain this issue in detail with some data, but I do not want to drown the current thread with the Turkish economy related issues.

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## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507730524806205440
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507742896820264962


The president is 79, the fact he can pick a child up and not break his back or fall over is quite an accomplishment.

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## Foinikas

sammuel said:


> But the picture that Mr Putin tried to describe , as if " the west " is banning Russian composers and writers , Just cause one independent orchestra in the UK , decided not to play this piece , simply has no connection to reality.
> 
> Beside it is Russia , not the west that suffers from limitation on freedom of expression. And i think you know that well enough.
> 
> To compare that to _*Kristallnacht*_ as , Putin tried to do is an insult to history and our intelligence.


And how do you explain the sudden rise in Anti-Russian hatred? The Western governments and media have done everything
to make Russians look like terrible people,not just the government,but Russians as a whole. When they are being banned from Amazon,from e-bay (I think),when Facebook and instagram censors them and allows anti-Russian rhetoric,when certain gaming companies refuse to sell their games to Russian and Belarussian people,when companies like McDonald's,Starbucks
and others close in these countries,when MASTERCARD and VISA ban Russian customers,when you see stickers on western stores implying that Russians are pigs and they are not allowed inside...

What do you expect? Is this not Kristallnacht? Does this not deepen the mistrust on both sides and create hatred? 

Imagine if that was done on Israel. Israelis would have been shouting "It's racism! It's discrimination! It's the Holocaust again!"

And yet Israel's bombed Palestinians and Lebanese a gazillion times and not even a single sanction.

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## Piotr

LeGenD said:


> *1.* Chechen forces are risking their lives to LIBERATE Mariupol and save civilians? Mashallah. Did the Mayor of Mariupol Vadym Boichenko request Russian forces and their Chechen puppets to liberate his city?



Why do you call Chechens “puppets” ? This is disrespectful. Do you have something against Chechens ?

Did Albanians requested Belgrade for permission to secede from Serbia ? Mariupol is part of Donetsk Peoples Republic. DPR and Russian forces do not need permission from some Bandera sypmathiser Boichenko.



LeGenD said:


> Escape From Mariupol: 'The Dead Were Buried In The Yards'
> 
> 
> From the time the rockets began to hit until his flight from the city, a man from Mariupol describes the progression of the Russian onslaught on the Donbas port, which has been one of the places that has been hardest-hit in the unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rferl.org


rferl.org ? Are you aware that this is US founded propaganda bullhorn ? Are you aware that you are peddling US propaganda ?



LeGenD said:


> Ukraine war: Survivor of Mariupol theatre bombing says crush of panicked crowd 'killed more people than the strike itself'
> 
> 
> Survivor Maria Radionova, who was standing at the entrance as a bomb hit the Mariupol theatre, said there was a "huge commotion" in the aftermath of the Russian airstrike that killed around 300 people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.sky.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liberation scenes, right?
> 
> Russian liberation activities in Mariupol caught on camera:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - - - -
> 
> Why you bringing Iraq into our conversation? My POV is in following post:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> It`s not nationalism, it`s pragmatism. Being in the Warsaw pact, that was probably the only defence pact in the history, that invaded their own members + crapy economy under the soviet union did the job. Well no NATO member decided to leave yet,that's why. Imagine if one of the eastern...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have always maintained that US/NATO assaulted Iraq on controversial and questionable grounds (bad decision).
> 
> *But* to address your curiosity, American troops discovered hidden caches of chemical weapons in Iraq from time-to-time:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Secret Casualties of Iraq’s Abandoned Chemical Weapons (Published 2014)
> 
> 
> The Pentagon kept silent as munitions left over from Saddam Hussein’s war with Iran found new targets from 2004 to 2011: American and Iraqi troops.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pentagon Reportedly Hushed Up Chemical Weapons Finds In Iraq
> 
> 
> The New York Times reports that between 2004 and 2011, American troops repeatedly encountered chemical weapons caches dating from the Iran-Iraq war. At least 17 U.S. service members were injured.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.npr.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US Troops Found Huge Caches Of Chemical Weapons In Iraq — And The Pentagon Tried To Keep It A Secret
> 
> 
> Unreal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.businessinsider.com.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*But*_ these finds were detrimental to Democratic politics and narrative against the Republicans and Obama administration instructed Pentagon to keep these finds under wraps.
> 
> There is more - an Iraqi defector Adnan Ihsan Saeed al-Haideri informed Bush administration about Iraqi WMD program.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Defector reveals extent of Iraqi weapons programme
> 
> 
> An Iraqi defector has claimed Saddam Hussein is developing a missile system which could deliver chemical, biological and eventually nuclear warheads to five Middle Eastern capitals, writes Chris Alden.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A NATION CHALLENGED: SECRET SITES; Iraqi Tells of Renovations at Sites For Chemical and Nuclear Arms (Published 2001)
> 
> 
> Iraqi defector says he personally worked on renovations of secret facilities for biological, chemical and nuclear weapons in underground wells, private villas and under hospital in Baghdad as recently as year ago; defector, Adnan Ihsan Saeed al-Haideri, who says he is civil engineer, gives...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com



Sky News, The Guardian ? More of the same. They all lied about alleged WMD in Iraq. Do you found them credible ?

How do you know that US “biological research facilities” are not engaged in producing biological weapons ? What are US “biological research facilities” doing in the Ukraine ? Why USA have “biological research facilities” abroad ?

Bear in mind long Anglosaxon history of using weapons of mass destruction. They used biological weapons against Natives in North America, they used nuclear weapons against civilians in Japan, they used depleted uranium against civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq. Anglosaxons have love affair with weapons of mass destruction. They love to use WMD. No wonder that the World is concerned about US alleged “biological research facilities”.

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## FairAndUnbiased

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507595467827429376


There's no satellite imagery in that entire thread


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## Soldier35

The destruction of the Buk air defense system of the armed forces of Ukraine by the Russian operational-tactical complex Iskander. The Iskander missile attack was carried out after receiving intelligence data from a Russian UAV patrolling an area in the Kiev region.






The army of Ukraine, actively withdrawing, mines fields and farmland, thereby endangering people's lives and jeopardizing the sowing campaign in Ukraine. More than 12,000 munitions have already been defused in the Kherson region alone. Everyday life of Russian sappers of engineering troops in Ukraine

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## Piotr

Clutch said:


> I believe this may be the Origins of the Covid-19 virus. It was manufactured in Ukraine and "exported" to China to start a bio-war against China. It just got out and came back to bite them.
> 
> So NATO forced Russia to invade Ukraine to reset the crumbling global economic system because war will flush out the bad debts and quantitative easing they did to stop the COVID induced financial Armageddon.



USA have something to hide. That's for sure. USA is afraid of the truth. USA doesn't want to release data about it's military athletes. The World urge USA to tell the truth but the USA refuse.

US urged to release health info of military athletes who came to Wuhan in October 2019​Wednesday, 25 March 2020 10:10 AM *[ Last Update: Sunday, 29 March 2020 9:40 AM]
Chinese netizens and experts urge the US authority to release health and infection information of the US military delegation which came to Wuhan for the Military World Games in October to end the conjecture about US military personnel bringing COVID-19 to China.*

An American journalist claimed one US military athlete in the delegation could be patient zero of the deadly new disease.

George Webb, an investigative journalist in Washington, DC claimed in recent videos and tweets that he believes Maatje Benassi, an armed diplomatic driver and cyclist who was in Wuhan in October for the cycling competition in the Military World Games, could be patient zero of COVID-19 in Wuhan.

[According to] a report by the US Department of Defense official website on October 25, Maatje Benassi has participated 50-mile cycling road race in Wuhan.

Webb also quoted a military lab, the Fort Detrick laboratory that handles high-level disease-causing organisms such as Ebola, in Fredrick, Maryland, which was shut down and moved in July due to unqualified facilities and management system.

His conclusions, although without strong evidence, triggered questions on Chinese social media as it came only days after a petition was submitted to the White House website on March 10 listing some coincidences in time between the Fort Detrick lab’s closure and the COVID-19 outbreak.

Many Chinese netizens have urged the US to test Benassi for COVID-19 and release information on the US delegation.

Li Haidong, a professor of US studies at the China Foreign Affairs University in Beijing, told the Global Times on Tuesday that the US government needs to respond to the controversy and publish the relevant information regarding their health status and infection record to clear public doubts and help with the scientific study on the virus’ origin.

US politicians have been contending the novel coronavirus is “Made in China,” while global scientists, including those in the US, have not found strong evidence to prove the virus’ origin.

Given this situation, it is important to trace any suspicious points, the US delegation to the Wuhan games in this scenario, and find out what really happened, Li said.

COVID-19, a deadly disease caused by the novel coronavirus, has infected more than 330,000 people around the world and killed more than 14,000.

Identifying the origin will help develop effective therapy on the disease. The US should provide information of the delegation members to support related research, Li said.

Earlier in March, Zhao Lijian, an outspoken Chinese diplomat, raised a suspicion on his personal Twitter account that it might have been the US army representatives to the Military World Games who brought the novel coronavirus to Wuhan in October 2019, after a top US health official admitted detecting coronavirus infections on some deceased flu patients. Zhao urged the US to disclose further information, exercise transparency on coronavirus cases and provide an explanation to the public.
https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2020/03/25/621570/virus-coronavirus-China-US

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507656314440273920

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## Vergennes

Russian POWs


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507762543862988803

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## dBSPL

Some observations and facts from Dean Shmuel Elmas about region geopolitics on Karabakh and how related to Ukraine:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507695713316220936

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507695821395005442

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507695892777910272


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507764352774025217


----------



## sammuel

Foinikas said:


> ,when Facebook and instagram censors them and allows anti-Russian rhetoric



Looks like someone here sees only what he wants to see , and ignores what is inconvenient for him , to justifies his views . . .

You complain about Facebook and Instagram , but it does not bother you one bit that Putin has banned both of them all together , to block his people from getting any outside information.









Russia banned Facebook and Instagram. What will Russians use now?


A Russian court ruled that Meta was guilty of “extremist” activity, effectively banning Instagram and Facebook. Where does this leave Russian social media users?




www.euronews.com





Russians are not stupid , they know well enough that Putin trying to block their information, Use of VPN has risen in Russia by 2000%


Demand for VPNs in Russia skyrockets by 2,000% after the Kremlin bans Instagram​








Meta ban sees Russians' demand for VPNs skyrocket by 2,000%


VPNs change the user’s unique IP address, allowing them to conceal their true location and circumvent Internet restrictions.




www.euronews.com







Foinikas said:


> What do you expect? Is this not Kristallnacht?




No it is not. Do Educate yourself :

" Jewish homes, hospitals and schools were ransacked as attackers demolished buildings with sledgehammers. Rioters destroyed 267 synagogues throughout Germany, Austria and the Sudetenland. Over 7,000 Jewish businesses were damaged or destroyed, and 30,000 Jewish men were arrested and incarcerated in concentration camps. "









Kristallnacht - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Do you see anything remotely resembling that happening to Russians in Europe ? ? ? NO.

So kindly do not insult our intelligence and insult the memory of those who have suffered during this period.

~


----------



## F-22Raptor

Biden to make major speech from Warsaw


----------



## dBSPL

Some of Twitter's well-known Prof. 'expert-on-everything' started to cry.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507755442054832136

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## Foinikas

sammuel said:


> Looks like someone here sees only what he wants to see , and ignores what is inconvenient for him , to justifies his views . . .
> 
> You complain about Facebook and Instagram , but it does not bother you one bit that Putin has banned both of them all together , to block his people from getting any outside information.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia banned Facebook and Instagram. What will Russians use now?
> 
> 
> A Russian court ruled that Meta was guilty of “extremist” activity, effectively banning Instagram and Facebook. Where does this leave Russian social media users?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.euronews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russians are not stupid , they know well enough that Putin trying to block their information, Use of VPN has risen in Russia by 2000%
> 
> 
> Demand for VPNs in Russia skyrockets by 2,000% after the Kremlin bans Instagram​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meta ban sees Russians' demand for VPNs skyrocket by 2,000%
> 
> 
> VPNs change the user’s unique IP address, allowing them to conceal their true location and circumvent Internet restrictions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.euronews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it is not. Do Educate yourself :
> 
> " Jewish homes, hospitals and schools were ransacked as attackers demolished buildings with sledgehammers. Rioters destroyed 267 synagogues throughout Germany, Austria and the Sudetenland. Over 7,000 Jewish businesses were damaged or destroyed, and 30,000 Jewish men were arrested and incarcerated in concentration camps. "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kristallnacht - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you see anything remotely resembling that happening to Russians in Europe ? ? ? NO.
> 
> So kindly do not insult our intelligence and insult the memory of those who have suffered during this period.
> 
> ~


And how long do you think it will be until random individuals or mobs start attacking Russians here and there?

Yes Putin banned FB and other sites for Russian citizens. Yes,he restricted them from protesting. Yes,he kept the hundreds of foreign jets. What did you want the Russian government to do? Just sit and watch the Western governments and media block the Russian point of view from everywhere just like that? Without doing anything to piss them off too?

Heck,if Russians were lynched you would still shout "Oh it's not like Kristallnacht,it's not racism." But what am I talking about? You guys are bombing Palestinians and treat them like trash at the checkpoints and in cities like Hebron and places you've grabbed from them WITHOUT A HINT OF GUILT. Without saying "What are we doing? Why are we creating ghettos for them? Didn't we learn anything from the Holocaust?"

Nothing. And you come and lecture about Evilz Putinz invade Ykraina.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507740898607648778

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## Foinikas

Vergennes said:


> Russian POWs
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507762543862988803


That video looks weird...different camo pants,no faces showing,short video.

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## Viet

Clutch said:


> Nations should keep their gold at home in within their own nation's hold....
> 
> The West can steal your wealth if they wish to do so.
> 
> May this Ukraine-Russia war be a lesson for rest of the world's countries that they need to pull out of the Western hostage banking system.


You don’t understand the logics behind the newest sanctions on Russia’s Gold.
Putin needs money. Real money. Not worthless rubles. He needs dollars, euros, sterling, yen. Putin can sell gold to let’s say China or Vietnam to get the forex.
Now the sanction stops this loophole.
Don’t blame the west. Putin can blame himself.
He chooses war.

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## sammuel

Foinikas said:


> What did you want the Russian government to do? Just sit and watch the Western governments and media block the Russian point of view from everywhere just like that?



Sure , the problem of blocking " Russian point of view " is cause of " western governments " :







~


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507682345138151429

The Pentagon assesses Russia will not be a long term threat to the US.

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## Ahmadbhutta01

For fs end this war or we may witness a ww3 soon , serbia sending it's forces on Kosovo border and Azerbaijan sent it's forces in Armenia has been warned by Russia to withdraw

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507775494690729984

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507775652409262084


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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507775494690729984
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507775652409262084



Sleepy Joe is all words. Ukraine has been left to fend for itself. As Zelensky begs for help, Western powers look the other way. Too afraid to confront Russia as this would ignite WW3.

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## Get Ya Wig Split

Biden letting his nuts hang, dope stuff...

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## PakAlp

This war has proved one thing. The west power is declining. Russia, China, India, Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, ASEAN, Saudi, UAE are not listening to the west. Asia is rising.

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## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> Sleepy Joe is all words. Ukraine has been left to fend for itself. As Zelensky begs for help, Western powers look the other way. Too afraid to confront Russia as this would ignite WW3.




The US has provided Ukraine thousands of weapons and near real time intel and targeting of Russian forces. There's a lot going on behind the scenes that you don't know about. There's no reason to intervene directly when Ukraine is humiliating the Russians on the battlefield. Ukraines cities can be rebuilt, but Russia will suffer for decades.

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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> The US has provided Ukraine thousands of weapons and near real time intel and targeting of Russian forces. There's a lot going on behind the scenes that you don't know about. There's no reason to intervene directly when Ukraine is humiliating the Russians on the battlefield. Ukraines cities can be rebuilt, but Russia will suffer for decades.



Ukraine is not winning. Russia is pouncing Ukrainian cities and taking them over one by one. Despite US and European military help for Ukraine. All we hear from Western propaganda mouthpieces is how Ukrainian forces are offering resistance. Resistance doesn't mean a thing when the outcome is inevitable. Everyone understands that if Russia doesn't halt its advance, removal of Zelensky is only a matter of time. Removal of Zelensky and other pro-Western puppets is the end goal.

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## F-22Raptor

PakAlp said:


> This war has proved one thing. The west power is declining. Russia, China, India, Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, ASEAN, Saudi, UAE are not listening to the west. Asia is rising.



The Pentagon has a completely opposite assessment. They no longer consider Russia a long term threat. Russia is now labled an "acute problem".

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## Foinikas

sammuel said:


> Sure , the problem of blocking " Russian point of view " is cause of " western governments " :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


Because Israel would allow some its citizens to sabotage the war effort and start protesting,if you were at war with Arabs or Iran?


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## PakAlp

F-22Raptor said:


> The Pentagon has a completely opposite assessment. They no longer consider Russia a long term threat. Russia is now labled an "acute problem".


Yes Russia is weak but China is rising. So the west is at more disadvantage point.


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## PakFactor

PakAlp said:


> This war has proved one thing. The west power is declining. Russia, China, India, Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, ASEAN, Saudi, UAE are not listening to the west. Asia is rising.



It's not just that, the East has suffered to many issues due to Western interference it's just their all sitting back and letting the Europeans get a taste, but more problematic for the West is how they portrayed the Ukrainians versus the rest of the world that image will leave a bad taste for decades to come and shape a lot of public opinion. That's why I'm enjoying this war, cause its letting out lots of things.

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## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> Ukraine is not winning. Russia is pouncing Ukrainian cities and taking them over one by one. Despite US and European military help for Ukraine. All we hear from Western propaganda mouthpieces is how Ukrainian forces are offering resistance. Resistance doesn't mean a thing when the outcome is inevitable. Everyone understands that if Russia doesn't halt its advance, removal of Zelensky is only a matter of time.




Russia has already lost strategically. Its in a much worse position today than 6 weeks ago. The Pentagon no longer considers Russia a long term problem. Russia has lost.

Ukraine can and will be rebuilt.

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## Tamerlane

It seems like the Jewish Ukrainian oligarch, Ihor Kolomoyskyi, controls everything in the country.

Kolomoyskyi funds Zelensky
Kolomoyskyi funds Azov neo-nazis
Kolomoyskyi funds Hunter Biden

The more we learn the more interesting it gets.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506230648612265989

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## Foinikas

Dalit said:


> Ukraine is not winning. Russia is pouncing Ukrainian cities and taking them over one by one. Despite US and European military help for Ukraine. All we hear from Western propaganda mouthpieces is how Ukrainian forces are offering resistance. Resistance doesn't mean a thing when the outcome is inevitable. Everyone understands that if Russia doesn't halt its advance and actions, removal of Zelensky is only a matter of time.


It's funny because when Russians are losing,the news talk about "Brave Ukrainians resisting" and when they are winning "butcher Russians killed Ukrainian soldiers,well poor Ukrainians have a small army anyway"

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## Dalit

PakFactor said:


> It's not just that, the East has suffered to many issues due to the West interference it's just their all sitting back and let the Europeans get a taste, but more problematic for the West is how they portrayed the Ukrainians versus the rest of the world that image will leave a bad taste. That's why I'm enjoying this war, cause it letting our lots of things.



The Europeans and Americans are living in their own bubble. As you rightly say, the rest of the world has clearly stayed neutral. Also, the Western hypocrisy in the refugee handling has been laid bare.

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## PakFactor

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia has already lost strategically. Its in a much worse position today than 6 weeks ago. The Pentagon no longer considers Russia a long term problem. Russia has lost.
> 
> Ukraine can and will be rebuilt.



Let me tell you one thing, it doesn't matter what the Pentagon assessment (it holds no value) is not like they've been good at it last few wars that spiraled out and made their efforts and capital spent worthless, the end winner will be the Chinese. The Russians will fold in front of them along with it the Central Asian region and its resources, wealth and brains (Russian) and the Chinese will incorporate them in one way or another. This conflict in effect put an active threat on European borders, while the Russians will come out wounded don't think they'll stop they will come back again, and this is what the Chinese want.

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## Dalit

Foinikas said:


> It's funny because when Russians are losing,the news talk about "Brave Ukrainians resisting" and when they are winning "butcher Russians killed Ukrainian soldiers,well poor Ukrainians have a small army anyway"



We have heard this script before.



F-22Raptor said:


> Russia has already lost strategically. Its in a much worse position today than 6 weeks ago. The Pentagon no longer considers Russia a long term problem. Russia has lost.
> 
> Ukraine can and will be rebuilt.



At the end of the day, Ukraine will be divided among pro and anti elements. That is good enough for Russia. Zelensky will live in exile. It will be another Afghanistan moment for US/NATO. Just like Northern Alliance got removed from power, Zelensky is on his way out. Europe will bare the brunt of pro-Zelensky Ukrainian refugees.

China and Russia rapprochement is a reality. A nightmare scenario for US and EU. There are no positives in this conflict for the US and NATO countries.

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## Foinikas

Tamerlane said:


> It seems like the Jewish Ukrainian oligarch, Ihor Kolomoyskyi, controls everything in the country.
> 
> Kolomoyskyi funds Zelensky
> Kolomoyskyi funds Azov neo-nazis
> Kolomoyskyi funds Hunter Biden
> 
> The more we learn the more interesting it gets.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506230648612265989


Every time people say "Lol Zelensky supporting Nazis? He's Jewish! He can't be Nazi!"

I wonder if they ever heard of this:





__





Patrol 36 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org









__





Israel's nightmare: Homegrown neo-Nazis in the Holy Land


Swastikas daubed on the walls of synagogues. 'Heil Hitler' salutes. People beaten in the streets because they are Jewish. Where could this be? Germany? Eastern Europe? Try Israel. Neo-Nazism has taken root in the very nation forged from the ashes of the Holocaust. Eric Silver reports




www.independent.co.uk







https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1741659010393937

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## DF41

sammuel said:


> SOURCE ? ? ?
> 
> Sounds like invented BS to me.


Might well be.

But then again, I did not see you reacting so indignantly to the many Russians generals supposed to be killed.

Or to assertations Zelensky in square of Kiev making resounding speeches

Or to thousands of Russian tanks being taken out

Or the the heroic deaths on Snake Island where those purported dead heros will be given medals and enshrine for all eternity.

Or USA denials that they got nuthing but nuthing to do with biolabs in Ukraine or anywhere else

Or USA professing they are champions of Human Rights and Freedom of Speech and for Peace.

By the way, with Israel implicit support for Zelensky and Azoz Nazis, will Israel Philharmonic be going to play "Horst-Wessel-Lied" should Zelensky make a visit to Israel via his famous green screen magic carpet?

After all, you already got this or is this also invented BS? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...megrown-neonazis-in-the-holy-land-396392.html And will they sing and play "Horst-Wessel-Lied" even if Israel Philharmonic decline to play?

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## Dalit

Foinikas said:


> Every time people say "Lol Zelensky supporting Nazis? He's Jewish! He can't be Nazi!"
> 
> I wonder if they ever heard of this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Patrol 36 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's nightmare: Homegrown neo-Nazis in the Holy Land
> 
> 
> Swastikas daubed on the walls of synagogues. 'Heil Hitler' salutes. People beaten in the streets because they are Jewish. Where could this be? Germany? Eastern Europe? Try Israel. Neo-Nazism has taken root in the very nation forged from the ashes of the Holocaust. Eric Silver reports
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1741659010393937



The outrageous thing is that Zelensky is Jewish and Nazi all at once LOL Talk about identity crisis.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507780669447053312


----------



## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507780669447053312



Even if true, small and insignificant losses. If we look at the bigger picture, Russia is on its way to oust US/NATO puppet Zelensky. The loss of Russian helicopters and military personnel won't change that outcome.

Let me assure you, the little Cold War that you are fighting against Russia at this moment won't have the same outcome as the infamous Afghan Cold War. Stinger may have helped you tilt the favor back in the day, but Russia came prepared and they will go to extreme lenghts to secure their interests.


----------



## sammuel

Foinikas said:


> Because Israel would allow some its citizens to sabotage the war effort and start protesting,if you were at war with Arabs or Iran?



Do you actually live in Greece ? Do you live in a democracy ? Or maybe in some parallel universe. ?

what sort of nonsense are you trying to push here ?

It is specialty during time of war that the freedom of people to express themselves is tested.

Don't know why you prescribe this Sh*t to the Russian people , while you yourself enjoy freedom in the west.








On *April 24 1971*, around 175,000 people protested in Washington D.C. against the raging Vietnam War. 



*Thousands Join Tel Aviv Rally for 'A Joint Future' After Israel-Gaza Fighting, Jewish-Arab Violence




*










Thousands join Tel Aviv rally for 'a joint future' after Israel-Gaza fighting, Jewish-Arab violence


***




www.haaretz.com





~

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## Dalit

sammuel said:


> Do you actually live in Greece ? Do you live in a democracy ? Or maybe in some parallel universe. ?
> 
> what sort of nonsense are you trying to push here ?
> 
> It is specialty during time of war that the freedom of people to express themselves is tested.
> 
> Don't know why you prescribe this Sh*t to the Russian people , while you yourself enjoy freedom in the west.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On *April 24 1971*, around 175,000 people protested in Washington D.C. against the raging Vietnam War.
> 
> 
> ~



Democracy and freedom according to this Jewish/Indian hybrid means worshipping US/NATO countries.


----------



## kingQamaR

Also worth mentioning is that Germany provided five hundred Stin ger, one thousand Pan zer fau st 3 systems, fourteen military vehicles, personal military gear of all sorts, tenK of fuel and a fully operational field hospital, including training. The German people also donated over 630 million EUR for the Ukraine. As of today welcomed over 250,000 Ukrainians who have fled to Germany.

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## Foinikas

sammuel said:


> Do you actually live in Greece ? Do you live in a democracy ? Or maybe in some parallel universe. ?
> 
> what sort of nonsense are you trying to push here ?
> 
> It is specialty during time of war that the freedom of people to express themselves is tested.
> 
> Don't know why you prescribe this Sh*t to the Russian people , while you yourself enjoy freedom in the west.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On *April 24 1971*, around 175,000 people protested in Washington D.C. against the raging Vietnam War.
> 
> 
> ~


*AND THAT'S WHAT COST THEM THE WAR! *​The Russians learned from this and don't want liberals and others to sabotage the war effort. I'm not saying suppressing the people like that is good,but Putin knows how Americans and Western Europeans are masters of fake news,propaganda and media manipulation.

Do you actually live in Israel? Why do you have that avatar then? What's the deal?

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## kingQamaR

Clutch said:


> It might get even more interesting if the Ukrainian actually push back into Russia. Imagine that... Ukrainian invading a part of southern Russia to create a buffer zone.



Zelenski ordered these counter attacks in order to gain a more favorable negotiating position. unfortunately it is not "putting the boot into putin" who is safe n sound in moscow. But it will kill lots of young men on both sides

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## sammuel

Foinikas said:


> *AND THAT'S WHAT COST THEM THE WAR! *​The Russians learned from this and don't want liberals and others to sabotage the war effort. I'm not saying suppressing the people like that is good,but Putin knows how Americans and Western Europeans are masters of fake news,propaganda and media manipulation.
> 
> Do you actually live in Israel? Why do you have that avatar then? What's the deal?



Avatar issue was already explained on my home page.


----------



## Foinikas

Dalit said:


> He is a troll and falseflagger. That is the deal.


First time I see a Jew with a Hindu avatar in a Pakistani forum,defending Ukraine.

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## Dalit

Foinikas said:


> First time I see a Jew with a Hindu avatar in a Pakistani forum,defending Ukraine.



That should be enough for you to know. He came here with the clear intention to troll.

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## Samar111

Dariush the Great said:


> US doctrine? Is that the same doctrine that failed to defeat the Taliban and escaped from Afghanistan like a scared mouse?


Dear, please be humble. 

We are talking about the same USA that sank 50% of your navy and killed 56 of your sailors. Meanwhile Iran was able to do nothing about it. 









Operation Praying Mantis - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## sammuel

Foinikas said:


> First time I see a Jew with a Hindu avatar in a Pakistani forum,defending Ukraine.



Avatar is from Krishna in Mahabharata , that describes a pointless war , where millions of good man die on both sides , needlessly. All cause of mans ego.

You can see why I thought it more than fitting to this forum.

Has nothing to do with my religion , just a story with a moral we can all learn from.

~


----------



## oberschlesier

Dalit said:


> The Europeans and Americans are living in their own bubble. As you rightly say, the rest of the world has clearly stayed neutral. Also the Western hypocrisy in the refugee handling has been laid bare.


Western hypocrisy in the refugee handling? Please explain


----------



## Meengla

Ahmadbhutta01 said:


> For fs end this war or we may witness a ww3 soon , serbia sending it's forces on Kosovo border and Azerbaijan sent it's forces in Armenia has been warned by Russia to withdraw



There is a real danger of some global mental fog of war here. Humanity is still in some brutal animalistic existence and whatever 'order' since World War II could break apart easily. The last 70-80 years may turn out to be a brief interlude of relative peace and Europe, going by its history even before the two World Wars, may become another place to start a World War.

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## Dariush the Great

Samar111 said:


> Dear, please be humble.
> 
> We are talking about the same USA that sank 50% of your navy and killed 56 of your sailors. Meanwhile Iran was able to do nothing about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Operation Praying Mantis - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


I think the amount of rat worshipping has claimed your sanity. 

But hey, atleast our pilots don't get beaten up by Pakistani villagers like the Indians.

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## Tamerlane

Foinikas said:


> Every time people say "Lol Zelensky supporting Nazis? He's Jewish! He can't be Nazi!"
> 
> I wonder if they ever heard of this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Patrol 36 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's nightmare: Homegrown neo-Nazis in the Holy Land
> 
> 
> Swastikas daubed on the walls of synagogues. 'Heil Hitler' salutes. People beaten in the streets because they are Jewish. Where could this be? Germany? Eastern Europe? Try Israel. Neo-Nazism has taken root in the very nation forged from the ashes of the Holocaust. Eric Silver reports
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1741659010393937



Jews funding and promoting neo-Nazis is no different than Jews and Anglo-Zionists funding and promoting jihadist head-choppers like ISIS, Al-Qaida, TTP (Pakistani Taliban) etc. 

Most of the right-wing extremists and politicians in America and Europe are supported by the Zionists. The deal is that they can continue to hate Muslims, immigrants etc. as long as they stay away from hating Jews.

The Anglo-Zionists have figured out how to recruit extremist Muslims to attack and destroy countries that the Anglo-Zionists don't like, including Muslim or non-Muslim (Russia, China). Plus, their presence is used as an excuse to continue the "War on Terror." Blaming them is easy for false-flag terrorist attacks like 9/11. A whole series of terrorist attacks around the world, including Europe, were false-flags done by their own governments and blamed on Muslims.

Now the Anglo-Zionists are doing the same with neo-Nazis. I would say that 90% of the neo-Nazis and right-wing extremists in the world are in Zionist control. The few who're genuine neo-Nazis hate Jews more than anyone else.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Foinikas said:


> That video looks weird...different camo pants,no faces showing,short video.


don't you see Russia is sooo poor they can't even afford uniform pants for their soldiers, that's why they have 5 different types of camo, 100%, definitely.

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## oberschlesier

Dalit said:


> The outrageous thing is that Zelensky is Jewish and Nazi all at once LOL Talk about identity crisis.


This NAZI story is just completly blew out of proportion for Russian interal narration. Russian soldiers, just cannot kill they "brothers" in Ukraine, but Nazis are fine.

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## thetutle

PakFactor said:


> It's not just that, the East has suffered to many issues due to Western interference it's just their all sitting back and letting the Europeans get a taste, but more problematic for the West is how they portrayed the Ukrainians versus the rest of the world that image will leave a bad taste for decades to come and shape a lot of public opinion. That's why I'm enjoying this war, cause its letting out lots of things.


But think for a second what this war could do. It could have the effect of remaking the world order according to desired of non western countries. Imagine a world order made by Russia, china and India. 

Imagine a world made in the image of India. The world would be an open toilet, like India. 

For all its faults, the west is the best humanity has ever achieved. Free and open elected government. Free enterprise. I challenge you to consider a world made by China and India. The cruelty and the unfairness. I would rather that there is no world than having to live in their image.

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## Foinikas

sammuel said:


> Avatar is from Krishna in Mahabharata , that describes a pointless war , where millions of good man die on both sides , needlessly. All cause of mans ego.
> 
> You can see why I thought it more than fitting to this forum.
> 
> Has nothing to do with my religion , just a story with a moral we can all learn from.
> 
> ~


Alright.

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## Dalit

oberschlesier said:


> This NAZI story is just completly blew out of proportion for Russian interal narration. Russian soldiers, just cannot kill they "brothers" in Ukraine, but Nazis are fine.



The Nazi presence in Ukraine and among Zelensky regime is not exaggerated. This is a well established fact by now.

More than denazification, this war is about removing US/NATO puppet in Ukraine. The backyard of Russia. Let's not confuse the main goal.

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## jamal18

Interesting. Current situation. Good source.


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## Viet

oberschlesier said:


> This NAZI story is just completly blew out of proportion for Russian interal narration. Russian soldiers, just cannot kill they "brothers" in Ukraine, but Nazis are fine.


Russia has the second most powerful army after the US. But they can’t beat the Asov regiments. This little small nazi troop. That sucks.


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## Dalit

oberschlesier said:


> Western hypocrisy in the refugee handling? Please explain



Blue eyes and blonde hair ring any bells?



Viet said:


> Russia has the second most powerful army after the US. But they can’t beat the Asov regiments. This little small nazi troop. That sucks.



After 20 years you guys couldn't win in Afghanistan. The Ukraine war is not a month old. Give it some time ans you will see that Russia will secure its objectives.

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## oberschlesier

Dalit said:


> The Nazi presence in Ukraine and among Zelensky regime is not exaggerated. This is a well established fact by now.
> 
> More than denazification, this war is about removing US/NATO puppet in Ukraine. The backyard of Russia. Let's not confuse the main goal.


For Russia denazification means getting rid of Democracy, were you can change your President from time to time and does not have to have approval from Moscow.

You seriously think, that removing "US/NATO puppet in Ukraine" will change anything ? After this war the Ukrainians will hate the Russians for generations.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507746138975256576

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## Wood

Contrary to what we've heard so far, this journalist from within Russia says that only 30% of the population support this invasion now. He claims that the silent majority is against this war but if afraid of law enforcement

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## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia has already lost strategically. Its in a much worse position today than 6 weeks ago. The Pentagon no longer considers Russia a long term problem. Russia has lost.
> 
> Ukraine can and will be rebuilt.


It will be rebuild there is already talk of EU Fund


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## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> Even if true, small and insignificant losses. If we look at the bigger picture, Russia is on its way to oust US/NATO puppet Zelensky. The loss of Russian helicopters and military personnel won't change that outcome.
> 
> Let me assure you, the little Cold War that you are fighting against Russia at this moment won't have the same outcome as the infamous Afghan Cold War. Stinger may have helped you tilt the favor back in the day, but Russia came prepared and they will go to extreme lenghts to secure their interests.




Russia has lost strategically. It’s been set back economically, militarily, and politically for decades. Russia has lost, and it’s nowhere near achieving its objectives on the battlefield. Not even close.

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## oberschlesier

Dalit said:


> Blue eyes and blonde hair ring any bells?


Well, Ukrainians have mostly darker hair. 
Anyway, it`s not skin color or hipocrisia. You always threat people with a similar language and culture differently. A polish person can easily communicate with somebody from Ukraine without a translator.


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## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507682345138151429
> 
> The Pentagon assesses Russia will not be a long term threat to the US.


After seeing russian army's performance no one will take them seriously let alone NATO or USA

They will focus on china going forward. that's what american's want. EU and USA work together. Putin making things easier for USA.

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## F-22Raptor

mmr said:


> After seeing russian army's performance no one will take them seriously let alone NATO or USA
> 
> They will focus on china going forward.




The Pentagon now labels Russia as an acute problem, and not a long term threat.


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## Meengla

thetutle said:


> But think for a second what this war could do. It could have the effect of remaking the world order according to desired of non western countries. Imagine a world order made by Russia, china and India.
> Imagine a world made in the image of India. The world would be an open toilet, like India.
> *For all its faults, the west is the best humanity has ever achieved. Free and open elected government. Free enterprise. I challenge you to consider a world made by China and India. The cruelty and the unfairness. I would rather that there is no world than having to live in their image.*



You really seem to hate India 
Bolded part: I do agree with you in general. However, it is not 'the West' we are talking about in this war and several other wars where untold innocent people have been killed in illegal wars. I will only mention the Iraq War and its catastrophic consequences for millions. That war not only contributed to China's rise but also eroded the West's credibility. Because poor people are flocking to the West is because of economic reasons, that doesn't 'prove' that 'the West' is not guilty of horrendous crimes committed against millions of people.
BTW, there is no 'the West' as such when it comes to geopolitics, especially wars. It is simply a cabal of war mongers in America made of a few hundred corporations, their media conglomerates, and compromised politicians. We change THAT and the world will be a much better place!

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507790802625642497

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507796619399667712


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## Tamerlane

thetutle said:


> But think for a second what this war could do. It could have the effect of remaking the world order according to desired of non western countries. Imagine a world order made by Russia, china and India.
> 
> Imagine a world made in the image of India. The world would be an open toilet, like India.
> 
> For all its faults, the west is the best humanity has ever achieved. Free and open elected government. Free enterprise. I challenge you to consider a world made by China and India. The cruelty and the unfairness. I would rather that there is no world than having to live in their image.



You need to understand that people like me are not against the West. It is true that the West, including North America and Europe have built a fantastic civilization. No one can disagree with that.

The problem is that some vested interests have captured the West. America is 100% in Zionist control. Instead of perusing peaceful coexistence with the rest of the world, the Anglo-Zionist controlled West is making war on the world. The last 20 years have been one of continuous wars, killing tens of millions of people, destroying countries, and creating chaos, Now they want to bring down China and Russia.

A patriotic American, instead of cheering Zionist wars, should be asking who was actually responsible for 9/11 and bringing the culprits to justice. It may be difficult pulling Dick Cheney out of hell, but there are a whole lot of them still making US policies who can be arrested and interrogated.

Unfortunately, the so-called patriotic Westerners are happy to go along with Zionist wars in the false expectation that it will bring glory and riches to them.

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## Wood

Spoiler: Vice News - Inside Irpin as civilians flee











Infield from Irpin


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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> You really seem to hate India
> Bolded part: I do agree with you in general. However, it is not 'the West' we are talking about in this war and several other wars where untold innocent people have been killed in illegal wars. I will only mention the Iraq War and its catastrophic consequences for millions. That war not only contributed to China's rise but also eroded the West's credibility. Because poor people are flocking to the West is because of economic reasons, that doesn't 'prove' that 'the West' is not guilty of horrendous crimes committed against millions of people.
> BTW, there is no 'the West' as such when it comes to geopolitics, especially wars. It is simply a cabal of war mongers in America made of a few hundred corporations, their media conglomerates, and compromised politicians. We change THAT and the world will be a much better place!


I dont hate india, But I do have a problem with the way Indians treat muslims. 

Also, I would rather die and the world to disappear in a nuclear holocaust than to live under Chinese or Indian rule. Because, Look at India. It look like a sewer to me. 

Better under china, but if that means living in a concentration camp like they treat others, just imagine how they would treat europeans if they ever took control of the world. 

But yes, there were those illegal wars since ww2. not only in Iraq and Afghanistan, but many many other places like Algeria. etc. But the west has gotten better and the world made in the western democratic image is the best humans will get in our lifetime. 

Im not sure about your cabal theory. I dont know enough about it. But I dont think so. Its probably just west being greedy at times. But I dont see the huge problem in getting rid of dictators. As I said before, I never understood the loyalty some muslims have towards mass murdering dictators like Saddam, and why some people would kill to live in a cruel murderous dictatorship. 

My own country, Bosnia, or Yugoslavia as it was called, used to be a terrible dictatorship and I would certainly not fight to have a dictatorship back. I just dont understand people that actually want a dictatatoship.

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## EvoluXon

Wood said:


> Contrary to what we've heard so far, this journalist from within Russia says that only 30% of the population support this invasion now. He claims that the silent majority is against this war but if afraid of law enforcement


Quoting western media is not wise enough while talking about russians... West must understand their world order have been challenged by Russo-Sino alliance.. future is china and asia ... West can create 1000 fake stories and fake narratives for their own public consumption.. same public which fell to trap of Iraq has WMD... Its West vs Asia and Asia is future because it has china an economic giant, already established superpower and leader of upcoming Uni polar world..

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## Meengla

thetutle said:


> But the west has gotten better and the world made in the western democratic image is the best humans will get in our lifetime.
> 
> Im not sure about your cabal theory. I dont know enough about it. But I dont think so. Its probably just west being greedy at times. But I dont see the huge problem in getting rid of dictators. As I said before, I never understood the loyalty some muslims have towards mass murdering dictators like Saddam, and why some people would kill to live in a cruel murderous dictatorship.
> 
> My own country, Bosnia, or Yugoslavia as it was called, used to be a terrible dictatorship and I would certainly not fight to have a dictatorship back. I just dont understand people that actually want a dictatatoship.



Yes, there is a general aversion to wars in the Western populations, especially among Europeans. However, the cabal is in America and it is real and it was called The Military Industrial Complex and as far back as D. Eisenhower had warned about the influence of some forces. It has gotten worse since the fall of the Soviet Union.

And, no, you just can't whitewash the crimes committed on behalf of the war profiteering cabal by phrasing that as some kind of love for dictators. That was very low of you, especially you if you were to factor in how many millions' lives were destroyed by those illegal wars, coups, and, yes, *support *for dictators. You also need to talk about the scale of destruction. Saddam would have been sorted out by time or his own people. No cabal was needed. Libya was far better off under Qaddafi. These facts are said even in America which is the seat of the cabal. 

I wonder how much you have painted yourself into a world of a superior West against everything else to the point of no return. With every admission of the grave tragedies inflicted upon the world your argument boils down to dictatorship vs democracy. How about valuing LIFE for a change?? How about recognizing that taming the cabal would be better for the world, including for the West itself? How about letting cultures evolve on their own, sort out their own problem, instead of imposing upon them based on false narratives?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507806277782679557
Russia has now 1,900 visually confirmed losses. Including 300 tanks, which is 25% of the total 1,200 deployed.

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## oberschlesier

EvoluXon said:


> Quoting western media is not wise enough while talking about russians... West must understand their world order have been challenged by Russo-Sino alliance.. future is china and asia ... West can create 1000 fake stories and fake narratives for their own public consumption.. same public which fell to trap of Iraq has WMD... Its West vs Asia and Asia is future because it has china an economic giant, already established superpower and leader of upcoming Uni polar world..


Russo-Sino alliance. Yeah, the economical potential is here 1:10. Russia will sell cheap gas and oil and will get older technologies in return. Russia definitely won`t benefit from this. The economic interdepence between China and West is so huge, none of the sides can afford a confrontation. China is neutral here and it`s waiting to take Russian assets cheaply.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

MoD Russia, [3/26/2022 12:56 PM]
🇷🇺🇺🇦Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

▫️Units of the Russian Armed Forces are fighting for the capture of Novomikhailovka. 

▫️During the day's fighting, more than 30 servicemen of the Ukrainian Armed Forces of 54th Mechanised Brigade, 6 armoured vehicles and 2 field artillery mounts of 46th Separate Assault Battalion were destroyed. 

▫️The offensive continues against the well-fortified concrete fortifications in Novoselovka and Novobakhmutovka settlements. 

▫️The defending units of the 25th Ukrainian Separate Airborne Brigade are suffering significant losses. Most of the fortifications have already been destroyed.

▫️During the day, up to 50 Ukrainian servicemen were destroyed, 7 long-term firing points and 5 armoured targets in protected shelters were suppressed.

✈️💥Operational-tactical and army aviation hit 91 military assets of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Among them: 2 command posts, 11 field depots with arms and ammunition, 2 electronic warfare stations, as well as 20 strongholds of Ukrainian Armed Forces units and 52 areas of military equipment concentration.

💥Russian air defence means shot down Ukrainian Mi-24 helicopter over Staraya Basan'. During the day, 4 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles were destroyed over Balakleya, Kiev, Chernigov. During the day, four Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles were destroyed over Balakleya, Kiev, Chernigov. 1 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicle approaching Sevastopol in the airspace over the Black Sea was also destroyed. 

💥In total, 271 unmanned aerial vehicles, 1,627 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 167 multiple launch rocket systems, 669 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,474 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.

❗️In recent days, many Russian male citizens have received fake phone calls in which an answer-back unit informs them of a call to the military commissariat. 

▫️I want to emphasize, all such fake calls are made from the territory of Ukraine, are completely untrue and are a provocation by the Ukrainian special services. 

▫️I officially declare that the Russian Defence Ministry does not planning to call any citizens in reserve to military commissariats. 

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing 
@mod_russia_en

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## khansaheeb

Oldman1 said:


> Its an excuse for Russia to invade Ukraine under the guise of protecting the newly independent countries which if it still stands, be annexed by Russia later on. Just more justifications to try to conquer Ukraine. You already see it on the news, Secret plans by Ukraine to invade Crimea, biological weapons, protecting the Russian speaking people, Nazis, NATO, etc.


If the US can come up with excuses to invade weaker countries then why can't Russia?

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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> And, no, you just can't whitewash the crimes committed on behalf of the war profiteering cabal by phrasing that as some kind of love for dictators. That was very low of you, especially you if you were to factor in how many millions' lives were destroyed by those illegal wars, coups, and, yes, *support *for dictators. You also need to talk about the scale of destruction. Saddam would have been sorted out by time or his own people. No cabal was needed. Libya was far better off under Qaddafi. These facts are said even in America which is the seat of the cabal.


Saddam would not have been sorted, he gassed the Kurds and killed hundreds of thousands of Shiites. Once he was removed, Why did the Iraqis wage a 15 year insurgency to get their dictatorship back? Why did they just not replace the western interim government with the Baath party. Problem solved. I can understand an insurgency when the conquered people have a dictator imposed. but I cant understand an insurgency that is fighting an occupier that gives you a democracy. To my mind that is just beyond understanding. You dont need to fight a democratic government, you replace them at the election booth. 


Meengla said:


> I wonder how much you have painted yourself into a world of a superior West against everything else to the point of no return. With every admission of the grave tragedies inflicted upon the world your argument boils down to dictatorship vs democracy. How about valuing LIFE for a change?? How about recognizing that taming the cabal would be better for the world, including for the West itself? How about letting cultures evolve on their own, sort out their own problem, instead of imposing upon them based on false narratives?


They can solve their own problem when their whole countries were created by imperial powers in the 1920's. Its not a problem of their own making. They need outside help. I truly believe people want to live free. You do, since you live in America. Why should others be denied that opportunity?


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507812962832199689

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507813869573582849
Crazy, they're unloading the anti-tank mines from the truck by dropping all of them to the ground. Not sure why they don't have a concern of those land mines exploding.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507796828334571530

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## Samar111

Dariush the Great said:


> I think the amount of rat worshipping has claimed your sanity.
> 
> But hey, atleast our pilots don't get beaten up by Pakistani villagers like the Indians.


Why are you being racist? "Rat worshipping"? Really?

When Trump blasted the Iranian general off the face of the earth. Iran did virtually nothing, because Iran knows it cant hang with America period. Forget America. You cant even handle tiny little Israel. Israel has been killing your nuclear scientist's left, right and centre INSIDE Iran😂

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507801526500212738

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507801528119316490

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507801529427841026

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507801530610724873

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507801531977981960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507801533320204288

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507806125797871619


Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507797604515647489




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507788027682340869

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507814807025733641

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507801534691692555

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507801536042344448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507801537422233608

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507801538756067334

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507801540131758080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507801541402583046

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## CrazyZ

This war shows the importance of cover and concealment for a modern army on the defense. Ukrainian military is making extensive use of netting, Tree cover, and dirt/debris as top cover to remain hidden from air surveillance and air strike. Contrast to Armenia (in NK war) and Iraq in GW1....in which defenses which were easily observed and attacked by UAV's and AC from above.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507801542656729097

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507801544183459856

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507801545492111367

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## Meengla

thetutle said:


> They can solve their own problem when their whole countries were created by imperial powers in the 1920's. Its not a problem of their own making.* They need outside help*. I truly believe people want to live free. You do, since you live in America. Why should others be denied that opportunity?



Bolded part.
Honestly, hard to argue with someone who holds such views!!! You are living in a remote corner of the world not knowing that many Americans--in a country where I have been living for decades and know quite well, actually--are deeply suspicious of the govt's involvements in foreign countries. Hillary lost to Obama because of her vote for the Iraq war as the major reason. Part of Trump's appeal was appealing to the Americans' desire to be not involved.
Fine, you escaped from the Balkan dictatorship and tasted some freedoms in 'the West' as you continue to parrot the line in some high and mighty way all the time. But that gives you no right to ask for regime changes in other countries and painting imperialistic wars as some grand designs for democracy vs dictatorships! 
And, YES, countries would sort out their own problems. None of others business. 
I have said enough about and don't want to derail this thread further. You needed some perspective which you are apparently sorely missing in your current grandiose civilizational state of mind. My advice: Value Life!

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507796721698549761

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## FairAndUnbiased

thetutle said:


> But think for a second what this war could do. It could have the effect of remaking the world order according to desired of non western countries. Imagine a world order made by Russia, china and India.
> 
> Imagine a world made in the image of India. The world would be an open toilet, like India.
> 
> For all its faults, the west is the best humanity has ever achieved. Free and open elected government. Free enterprise. I challenge you to consider a world made by China and India. The cruelty and the unfairness. I would rather that there is no world than having to live in their image.


The horrors of being like China with highest PISA scores, most scientific research, most patents, best infrastructure, longer lifespan than US, etc. LMAO

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507820752925515780
• Ukrainian troops broadcast images of the liberation of the village of Olkhovka in Kharkov. • 3 pieces of military equipment were destroyed in the battle, KShM and MTLB were captured, 27 Russian soldiers were taken prisoner.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507820752925515780
> • Ukrainian troops broadcast images of the liberation of the village of Olkhovka in Kharkov. • 3 pieces of military equipment were destroyed in the battle, KShM and MTLB were captured, 27 Russian soldiers were taken prisoner.



No proof. It could be staged......


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507792963778273285

Meanwhile, the South Ossetian forces are in Ukraine and their flags are hoisted all over Ukrainian cities.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507796331041103876

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507817588621037571

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507808131287502849

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507803424003342340


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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507817588621037571





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507712427198144512

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507712427198144512



No proof,could be staged.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507731839192023042

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## Meengla

FairAndUnbiased said:


> The horrors of being like China with highest PISA scores, most scientific research, most patents, best infrastructure, longer lifespan than US, etc. LMAO



That's what I thought, too! 
Some people have drank kegs of anti-China Kool-Aid! I am amazed by some people's whitewashing of millions' of peoples suffering due to the Military Industrial Complex cabal in America. Often such people's arguments are rooted in racial and civilizational superiority of the West against all others. Their worldview is not the proverbial 30,000 feet one; it is more like from some other planet or deep space where some Gods are looking down at people passing judgments.

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507790802625642497
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507796619399667712



Another problem of supply lines

If you set fixed goals — "we wait for 8 more supply convoys to arrive, and then the batallion sets off," you mess up the whole offensive if something goes wrong.

If a few convoys are intercepted, or delayed, your batallion goes out of sync with the rest of the offensive.

Your batallion becomes a sitting target for n-more days, while eating through its supplies, so it needs even more of them.

You risk that supply line drivers will give away their destination, and intel on you, as well as giving away the FOB from which they carry the supplies, and routes/scheduled of other trucks.

Once the enemy finds out your supply line, and reaches it, he will certainly keep trying repeating to intercept your supplies for easy loot, and kill counts.

If your supply line goes through forests, or conurbations, once the enemy reache it, there is no way you can undo the chokehold on supplies with cheap airstrikes. You will need to send clearance force, or, worse, go back to secure its who length if you cannot locate the exact place where your supplies were intercepted.

Sending single batallions across 500km+ distances is simply dumb, it's not even a mistake, because such s**t would never be told in any military academy in the world.

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## Wood

The Russian curse on Ukraine is not a recent phenomena. The video shows how Stalin played his part in history with his manufactured famine and forced resettlement of Russians in Ukraine

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## Vergennes

@F-22Raptor 

Look at the difference between how Russian and Ukrainian army operates. Ukrainian armored vehicles and tanks advancing with the support of infantry. Look at their displacements. Compare this with Russian and Kadyrov's clowns.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507831632518074376

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507819537374146565

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507819613341454337

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507819641673900037

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507819792018788366

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507819910105239553

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507819938546814976

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## Paul2

FairAndUnbiased said:


> The horrors of being like China with highest PISA scores, most scientific research, most patents, best infrastructure, longer lifespan than US, etc. LMAO



This war will certainly prop the pro-isolationism camp in Beijing — "socialism in one country"


----------



## dBSPL

Wood said:


> The Russian curse on Ukraine is not a recent phenomena. The video shows how Stalin played his part in history with his manufactured famine and forced resettlement of Russians in Ukraine


The russified regions in Ukraine were predominantly Turkish Muslim-majority regions. Crimean exiles were the most famous and systematic among them.

Stalin applied a similar practice against the Circassian Muslims in the east of the Black Sea. The demographic change in that area was much bloodier and turned into a genocide.

Today, it is estimated that 1 to 2 million of the modern Turkish population is of Crimean descent. In addition, it is estimated that millions of people in our country are of Circassian origin. The country where most native Circassians and Crimean people live in the world is Turkey, not Russia.

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507833606533783556

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## Wood

Contrasting Russia's invasion of Ukraine with America's invasion of Iraq

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## zartosht

Sergei karjakin.. one of the best chest players on earth and a famous ukrainian-russian . just got banned by FIDE chess for daring to support His Countries military.

Russians have the choice of openly denouncing their country or getting kicked out of any international competition, event or at minimum facing an avalanche of abuse and harrasment

Isnt it the mother of all Ironys though. One of the best chess players on earth (soon to be *THE greatest *chess player)alireza firouzja was stolen from Iran with western money. and heavily used as propaganda because he couldnt openly play against zionists he had to leave Iran.


Now "free" France bans him from playing against Russians .... you really cant make this shit up anymore.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507655934855815168


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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507731839192023042



Luhansk front seems to be actually collapsing on the Russian side. Ukrainian regulars who were there from before the invasion fighting separatists, ground through Russian regular army, and is now only facing conscript staffed units, and mobilised civilians which surrender by whole companies at a time.

If you look at the rail map, Luhansk has much weaker supply line to Russia, as they have no rail connection.


----------



## dBSPL

Wood said:


> Contrasting Russia's invasion of Ukraine with America's invasion of Iraq


It's not a channel to be taken too seriously.

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## The SC

The Russian Kinzhal missile has a speed of 12,000 km an hour 10 times faster than sound. watch the reporter's astonishment when he saw that he had hit a Ukrainian arms depot 136 meters underground, knowing that thee Russianss have a missile twice as powerful as this one, with a speed of 27 thousand kilometers per hour, called Avangard, which has not been used yet..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507804538199228419

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## Paul2

WotTen said:


> The US will try to make it a 'with us or against us' binary choice as usual, but the Europeans, Chinese and Russians will allow countries to adopt a 'spread your chips' approach.



Spread your chips, but there is certainly less enthusiasm in Beijing. OBOR is on life support only now, because they can't let Xi's project to be seen rolled back.


----------



## WotTen

Paul2 said:


> OBOR is on life support only now,



In Europe only, because of the war, but it is going ahead in the rest of the world.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507817183501500429

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507827423160770564


----------



## MajesticPug

WotTen said:


> In Europe only, because of the war, but it is going ahead in the rest of the world.



True. A hiccup. A bump. Nobody should expect the war lasts more than a few months. Why are people exaggerating the death of OBOR when the bumps are short in duration and regional only?

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## The SC

Spoiler: Graphic



https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1507813380245053441?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1507813380245053441%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507812962832199689

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507815788698386434

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507820013159215107
@LeGenD you were asking about Armata's absence repeatedly. This may be the answer 🤔

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Уничтожение ЗРК «Бук» ВСУ высокоточным ракетным вооружением в Киевской области | 💥📹 Кадры объективного контроля уничтожения зенитного ракетного комплекса «Бук» ВСУ высокоточным ракетным вооружением в Киевской области ◽️ Ракетный... | By Минобороны


43K views, 1.7K likes, 273 loves, 449 comments, 334 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Минобороны России: 💥📹 Кадры объективного контроля уничтожения зенитного ракетного комплекса «Бук» ВСУ...




fb.watch


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507740261908103175

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507803424003342340

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507789215911890955

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507742793795575813


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507736228048814089


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507819078450356227

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507819641673900037
This is so funny that I had to post it once more

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507759039165435909

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507806075608829955

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507774309586120705

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## Hydration

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507759039165435909
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507806075608829955


the only thing i adore of this war is chechens praying and saying God is great outload

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## Vergennes

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507819641673900037
> This is so funny that I had to post it once more



This war showed us the scale of the fraud the Russian armed forces are. So much incompetence and corruption. Some on this forum thought those drunkards could steamroll Europe.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507782297101082626

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507784927097626635

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507784682246529024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506724970658820097

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506315902169534464
Russian state media pundits casually speak of nuking European capitals

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## Vergennes

Russian BTR82A,nothing much remains of it

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## LeGenD

Piotr said:


> Did Albanians requested Belgrade for permission to secede from Serbia ? Mariupol is part of Donetsk Peoples Republic. DPR and Russian forces do not need permission from some Bandera sypmathiser Boichenko.
> 
> 
> rferl.org ? Are you aware that this is US founded propaganda bullhorn ? Are you aware that you are peddling US propaganda ?
> 
> 
> 
> Sky News, The Guardian ? More of the same. They all lied about alleged WMD in Iraq. Do you found them credible ?
> 
> How do you know that US “biological research facilities” are not engaged in producing biological weapons ? What are US “biological research facilities” doing in the Ukraine ? Why USA have “biological research facilities” abroad ?
> 
> Bear in mind long Anglosaxon history of using weapons of mass destruction. They used biological weapons against Natives in North America, they used nuclear weapons against civilians in Japan, they used depleted uranium against civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq. Anglosaxons have love affair with weapons of mass destruction. They love to use WMD. No wonder that the World is concerned about US alleged “biological research facilities”.



*1.* Check my rebuttal in following post:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


frustrated at Irans geopolitical situation? are you kidding? Iran hasnt been sitting this pretty since Nader Shahs time.... just as we secured our geopolitical sphere of foreign influence, ended our dependence on oil revenue, made a durable economy able to withstand any sanction the west can...



defence.pk





*2. *Do I have to teach you the basics of reading and writing now? It would be much better for you to focus on contents (and lines of evidence) instead of deciding validity of sources on strictly country-origin basis. 

I do *NOT* dismiss Russian sources for the sake of being Russian in person; I double-check contents for accuracy or credibility when I am not sure about something because Russian cyberwarfare practices are real and well-documented.

Destruction in Mariupol can be ascertained through following lines of evidence:

*2.1. Footage*










__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=249798317367205





*2.2. Photographs*









Haunting before and after photos show destruction of Ukraine's cities


Heartbreaking images from Mariupol and Kyiv show the devastation with bombed-out schools, hospitals and government buildings - which once served as important sites before Russia invaded Ukraine




www.mirror.co.uk













Photos: Mariupol residents escape besieged, devastated city


About 30,000 people have been evacuated from the city, which has been under Russian bombardment for more than two weeks.




www.aljazeera.com













Ukraine war: Images reveal scale of destruction in Mariupol


Photos and satellite images show the devastation caused to the southern Ukrainian city, which is encircled by Russian troops.



www.bbc.com





*2.3. Survivor accounts*









A resident of Mariupol tells her story after fleeing the city's horrific destruction


NPR's Debbie Elliott speaks with Alina Beskrovna, a native of the Ukrainian city of Mariupol. She was trapped there for weeks as Russian forces laid siege.




www.npr.org













'Mariupol is now just hell': Survivors and drone footage reveal the scale of destruction | CNN


Conditions in Mariupol are "unbearable" and "just hell," residents who fled the besieged city in southeastern Ukraine have told CNN, as shocking drone footage and satellite photos emerged showing the utter devastation wrought by the Russian bombardment.




edition.cnn.com





What more you want to see in this case?

*3.* Understand the concept of WMDs First and Foremost:





__





Chemical biological, radiological and nuclear terrorism | Office of Counter-Terrorism


Access to weapons of mass destruction The prospect of non-state actors, including terrorists and their supporters, gaining access to and using Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD)/Chemical Biological, Radiological and Nuclear (CBRN) materials is a serious threat to international peace and security...




www.un.org





Iraq had a chemical weapons program:









Remembering Halabja chemical attack


Chemical weapons are the ultimate psychological weapon for those who are willing to use them.




www.aljazeera.com









__





BBC ON THIS DAY | 16 | 1988: Thousands die in Halabja gas attack






news.bbc.co.uk





American troops found hidden caches:









The Secret Casualties of Iraq’s Abandoned Chemical Weapons (Published 2014)


The Pentagon kept silent as munitions left over from Saddam Hussein’s war with Iran found new targets from 2004 to 2011: American and Iraqi troops.




www.nytimes.com













WikiLeaks’ Inconvenient Truth about Iraqi Chemical Weapons


Buried in the WikiLeaks avalanche of documents related to the war in Iraq are various reports about the discovery of chemical weapons caches inside Iraq—reports which contradict the revisionist narrative about the genesis of the war.




www.heritage.org





Popular narrative notwithstanding.

Western sources such as Sky News, The Guardian and More of the same do *NOT* lie all the time.

*4.* You are repeating your assertions over and over again instead of comprehending information shared with you. This is BOT behavior (suspicious).

I have provided answers in following posts:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Russian forcies (including that from Chechnya) managed to prevent Bandera forces from attacking Donbass Republics. Massive Bandera attack against Donbass Republics was planed for March. Russian forcies managed to stop US development of nuclear and biologicas weapons in the territory of the...



defence.pk













Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Of course Russia send Chechens with cover and support. Nothing wrong with that. The problem is that Banderites are using civilians as human shields and Russia want as little civilian casualities as possible. It would be no problem for Russia to destroy Mariupol like USA destroyed Fallujah...



defence.pk













Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Wow, it looks like the Ukrainians may actually be pushing the Russians back on all fronts. If this carries on, then sometime in April the Russians could be pretty much back to their starting positions and only gained some territory on the Donbas. Russians have already said that they don't want...



defence.pk





Take your time to comprehend shared information and then get back to me.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507641433251065859


----------



## Paul2

MajesticPug said:


> True. A hiccup. A bump. Nobody should expect the war lasts more than a few months. Why are people exaggerating the death of OBOR when the bumps are short in duration and regional only?



OBOR was half-frozen for at least 3 years now, long before covid. Saying this as somebody working on an OBOR project.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505909278896443399

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## The SC

A lil off topic,, but important..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507769029443870720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507850507607592961

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507843809224372236

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507784901332021251

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507801861184757762


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507408690323894273


----------



## Wood

Doctors in Kiev say that either Ukraine will win or Putin would loose


----------



## Foinikas

oberschlesier said:


> You seriously think, that removing "US/NATO puppet in Ukraine" will change anything ? After this war the Ukrainians will hate the Russians for generations.


It shouldn't have dragged on so much. If the situation was solved in 2014 or before the invasion now by the Ukrainian government signing treaties of neutrality and accepting Crimea as Russian land and maybe granting autonomous status to Donbass or a special treaty for eastern Ukraine...this war could have been avoided.

USA and those in NATO who insisted on an aggressive policy are the ones to blame. These ones encouraged and pushed the Ukrainians,these are the ones you could say,who seduced the Ukrainian people to go to their side and to rely on them foolishly. The Ukrainians who wanted to be "de-Russified",were seduced by the money of the EU and the promises of the West. It's the Eastern Bloc complex. After the fall of communism,these people frantically tried to get out of poverty. I don't blame them. Some remained moderate,some returned to religion but many were blinded by a love of money and luxury. 
I don't blame them for trying to escape poverty and the oppression of the communist tyranny,but they fell for American and Western European promises. 

What did the Russians ask for? The only thing they asked for was not to mess with their sphere of influence,their neighborhood,countries like Georgia,Armenia,Azerbaijan,Belarus,Ukraine,Kazakhstan. 

But no,the Warhawks in Washington and Brussels had to have these countries too. To weaken an already weak Russia.

Instead on focusing on China for example,they did everything they could to weaken Russia. Proxy wars,sanctions,adding more neighbors to NATO,presenting the Russians as the old evil communists of the Cold War.

Religiously speaking,to destroy Orthodoxy,which was the soul of this nation and still is. The bond that unites the people,that talks about family,traditions,faith in God and love for the motherland. 

Just like when they want to destroy Islam they either try to seduce muslims or introduce hardcore nutcases to them and keep them divided. 

Putin with all his faults,supported the Orthodox Church. And the Orthodox Church contrary to Protestantism,does not tolerate the modern Western culture: LGBT rights,teaching children about transgenders,SJW movements,feminism, political correctness,idiotic music and Hinduist and Buddhist practices. 

See,this way they couldn't corrupt Russians easily. Putin and the Russian Orthodox Church had started putting a stop on all that. Faith,Patriotism and a sense of slavic identity was coming back to them. And the West didn't like that.

What would have happened if Belarussians and Ukrainians woke up and remembered they were the same people? What would have happened if the 3 Russias united again? It would have been a nightmare for the Freemasons and Zionists of USA and Europe. 

So they probably thought...China can wait.

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## The SC

From the Black Sea... Russia launches "Kalibr" missiles towards the city of Gumitre, west of the capital, Kyiv


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507750551827664897


----------



## Paul2

jhungary said:


> It REALLY depends on how you use the tank and how you use those ATGM.
> 
> If you do what the Russian do, which is don't bother to run any infantry screen in front of on top of the column, whichever country did that would have the same result. You are effectively allowing your enemy to ambush without you seeing it, and inside that tank, you cant see shit.
> 
> From all the footage I saw on how Russian run their Armor, that can be made in a compilation video title "How not to run your armor in modern warfare" I don't see any unit coherent, I don't see dismounted infantry, I don't see overhead gunship accompanied the armor. I mean, it would be stupid not to expect your armor are going to cut to piece if you do stuff like this, sort of like how are you going to expect anything is going to be different? As that is the only logical outcome.
> 
> On the other hand, Ukrainian have used their knowledge of their own land pretty well, and the excellent use of cover vs concealment is the key to how those Russian Armor getting cut to ribbon.



How more infantry will help when it is not a man with LAW jumping on you from a ditch threatening your armour, but somebody with 2km+ man portable ATGMs, and very likelly multiple of them.

We've seen videos of single tanks receiving up to 5(!) ATGM hits, without them even trying to return fire, because they likelly never seen them.

Send infantry 2-3 km ahead to clean every tree line? How will they find the enemy in a tree line, when thermal sight on a tank itself can't see an infantry man in IR camo from 1km? How will the tank return fire, and support troops ahead from such distance?

Ukrainians themselves make light ATGMs costing only few thousand USD per shot. And we have not yet spoke about long range non-line-of-sight ATGMs now entering service.

When even piss poor armies can field multiple ATGM teams per moto company today, I think it really puts all current assumptions about mechanised combat upside down. An armoured convoy is seriously outranged by everything now, and, most importantly, outranged by infantry. If even an MBT can be destroyed by a top attack ATGM from up front, then why do you need an MBT?

I believe the doctrines will go back to sixties now. Motorized will be more about a lot of indirect fire support, and bigger formations to stand against more lethal indirect fire coming from other side.

Russian experiment with light regiments, and BTGs has been proven a total, complete failure for so many reasons.

I think its biggest vulnerability is how small autonomous units get totally paralysed by C&C loss, which is inevitable when command sections stay just few kilometers from where contact warfare takes place.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507694922895343619


----------



## LeGenD

China is close to Russia, but it has looked to Ukraine for military tech


Former Soviet republic supplied the PLA Navy’s first aircraft carrier, missile systems and a fighter jet prototype.




www.scmp.com

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507709501981532169

Reactions: Like Like:
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## SuvarnaTeja

Tech giant YouTube forced to unblock WION after global outrage​

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507639319049158661
The Azov militants abandoned their bases near Mangosh


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507628518993281030

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507641907635232768

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507591669889130504


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> How more infantry will help when it is not a man with LAW jumping on you from a ditch threatening your armour, but somebody with 2km+ man portable ATGMs, and very likelly multiple of them.
> 
> We've seen videos of single tanks receiving up to 5(!) ATGM hits, without them even trying to return fire, because they likelly never seen them.
> 
> Send infantry 2-3 km ahead to clean every tree line? How will they find the enemy in a tree line, when thermal sight on a tank itself can't see an infantry man in IR camo from 1km? How will the tank return fire, and support troops ahead from such distance?
> 
> Ukrainians themselves make light ATGMs costing only few thousand USD per shot.
> 
> When even piss poor armies can field multiple ATGM teams per moto company today, I think it really puts all current assumptions about mechanised combat upside down.


Depends on what do you want?

If you want to run Armor up in Urban environment without any casualty. that is NOT possible. That's why I keep saying you would not see me doing that.

But if you have to, there is a way to minimize your lost. Which is why the term "Combine Arms" is important.

Infantry need to screen ahead and make sure the immediate area of the tank is safe, then you need gun ship overhead to pick up contrail. The infantry job is to see if there are any type of encampment, you don't need to see the team, but if they had camp there (You usually leave team in place for days and rotate the position within a certain area), then you need to work with your Armor and artillery and try to find those team. Tank and Artillery can support the team a few kilometre away

If you can't and they fired, that's what's the gunship is for, they can pick up the trail as soon as they fired and put guns or rocket on them and eliminate them.

The problem is, they don't run gunship because they can't deal with the MANPAD threat, and since they don't run gunship, they probably did not bothered to run infantry screen/observer or check point to curb the AT team, either that, or they are really incompetent and think running Armor single along the road without either infantry and gunship on top is going to be okay....I am giving the Russian the benefit of the doubt,....


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507884642027773953

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Depends on what do you want?



Offensive armoured warfare.

It's clear that even low density, town like urban terrain is death for armour.

But armour is now challenged in an open field. A single AT team lying in a ditch can easily carry firepower enough to cripple an entire armoured company from 2km+ in one ambush.

And if you slowdown your movement in contested territory to poke every ditch around, you will make yourself a target for something bigger than an AT team, and of course the speed, and shock advantage itself is lost.

APS? Maybe, but will it help with multiple hits? I think it will not save you from ambushes we seen in Ukraine. And even if APS will save few heavier vehicles in a company, you still have to return fire somehow at 2+ kilometers against few footsoldiers in a ditch, who will likelly scuttle right after firing.

Wasting air support/fire support on every AT team every few kilometers? Not feasible.


----------



## PakFactor

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507641907635232768
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507591669889130504



The problem with this war compared to the Azeri-Armenia conflict is we have to much misinformation and garbage from Western media that's polluting the details of the conflict.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Offensive armoured warfare.
> 
> It's clear that even low density, town like urban terrain is death for armour.
> 
> But armour is now challenged in an open field. A single AT team lying in a ditch can easily carry firepower enough to cripple an entire armoured company from 2km+ in one ambush.
> 
> And if you slowdown your movement in contested territory to poke every ditch around, you will make yourself a target for something bigger than an AT team, and of course the speed, and shock advantage itself is lost.


As I said, if you are using this war to gauge the effective of armor, you probably will get the lowest end of it, this is like an episode of "When Armor Corp failed"

You need to understand the dynamic, AT team in battle are treated like static defence, due to its mobility. Yes, they can be hidden but so does almost all static defence, which make the mobility of tank is important. Which is what the Russian is taking away from their armor.

In this case, the armor are limited to use on road, and in the urban area. There are no room to retreat or conduct a counter AT drill and without proper support, this is what lead to the footage we all saw from the past month


----------



## Tamerlane

Zelensky is in Poland according to Ukrainian MP. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500545501174935555

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jamal18

Foinikas said:


> It shouldn't have dragged on so much. If the situation was solved in 2014 or before the invasion now by the Ukrainian government signing treaties of neutrality and accepting Crimea as Russian land and maybe granting autonomous status to Donbass or a special treaty for eastern Ukraine...this war could have been avoided.
> 
> USA and those in NATO who insisted on an aggressive policy are the ones to blame. These ones encouraged and pushed the Ukrainians,these are the ones you could say,who seduced the Ukrainian people to go to their side and to rely on them foolishly. The Ukrainians who wanted to be "de-Russified",were seduced by the money of the EU and the promises of the West. It's the Eastern Bloc complex. After the fall of communism,these people frantically tried to get out of poverty. I don't blame them. Some remained moderate,some returned to religion but many were blinded by a love of money and luxury.
> I don't blame them for trying to escape poverty and the oppression of the communist tyranny,but they fell for American and Western European promises.
> 
> What did the Russians ask for? The only thing they asked for was not to mess with their sphere of influence,their neighborhood,countries like Georgia,Armenia,Azerbaijan,Belarus,Ukraine,Kazakhstan.
> 
> But no,the Warhawks in Washington and Brussels had to have these countries too. To weaken an already weak Russia.
> 
> Instead on focusing on China for example,they did everything they could to weaken Russia. Proxy wars,sanctions,adding more neighbors to NATO,presenting the Russians as the old evil communists of the Cold War.
> 
> Religiously speaking,to destroy Orthodoxy,which was the soul of this nation and still is. The bond that unites the people,that talks about family,traditions,faith in God and love for the motherland.
> 
> Just like when they want to destroy Islam they either try to seduce muslims or introduce hardcore nutcases to them and keep them divided.
> 
> Putin with all his faults,supported the Orthodox Church. And the Orthodox Church contrary to Protestantism,does not tolerate the modern Western culture: LGBT rights,teaching children about transgenders,SJW movements,feminism, political correctness,idiotic music and Hinduist and Buddhist practices.
> 
> See,this way they couldn't corrupt Russians easily. Putin and the Russian Orthodox Church had started putting a stop on all that. Faith,Patriotism and a sense of slavic identity was coming back to them. And the West didn't like that.
> 
> What would have happened if Belarussians and Ukrainians woke up and remembered they were the same people? What would have happened if the 3 Russias united again? It would have been a nightmare for the Freemasons and Zionists of USA and Europe.
> 
> So they probably thought...China can wait.


Entirely the US and its Nato lackeys fault.


----------



## Tamerlane

Zelensky has been in Poland for more than three weeks now, yet the Western media still doesn’t want to admit it. Biden should have met Zelensky in Poland but that would have let the cat out of the bag. 

Instead Zelensky is being allowed to slowly fade away.

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## dbc

Tamerlane said:


> Zelensky is in Poland according to Ukrainian MP.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500545501174935555



#fakenews

Meanwhile, *Ilya Kiva, a pro-Kremlin member of Ukraine’s parliament, also amplified the false story on his Telegram channel*, prompting additional Kremlin-owned and pro–Kremlin media outlets to report on it, featuring headlines such as “Member of Rada accused Zelenskyy of creating a fake video.”

This is not the first time that pro-Kremlin information channels have suggested Zelenskyy is no longer in Kyiv. On February 26, Vyacheslav Volodin, a pro-Kremlin member of Russian parliament, wrote on his Telegram channel, “Zelenskyy left Kyiv in a hurry.” Kremlin-owned media outlets amplified the allegation. The next day, Zelenskyy recorded a video outside his Kyiv office to debunk the claim. And on March 8, the War with Fakes Telegram channel published a “debunk” suggesting that Zelenskyy is faking his videos to appear as though he is in Kyiv. Pro-Kremlin media once again amplified the post.









Russian War Report: Russian false-flag operation seeks to drag Belarus into Ukraine war


Ukrainian media reported that Russia attacked a Belarusian village from Ukrainian airspace in an attempt to make it appear that Ukraine had attacked Belarus and provoke Belarusian President Lukashenka to move troops into Ukraine.




www.atlanticcouncil.org







Tamerlane said:


> Zelensky has been in Poland for more than three weeks now, yet the Western media still doesn’t want to admit it. Biden should have met Zelensky in Poland but that would have let the cat out of the bag.
> 
> Instead Zelensky is being allowed to slowly fade away.



does it matter if he is Poland or Mars ..he's still kicking Putin's a$$

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## Wood

dbc said:


> #fakenews
> 
> Meanwhile, *Ilya Kiva, a pro-Kremlin member of Ukraine’s parliament, also amplified the false story on his Telegram channel*, prompting additional Kremlin-owned and pro–Kremlin media outlets to report on it, featuring headlines such as “Member of Rada accused Zelenskyy of creating a fake video.”
> 
> This is not the first time that pro-Kremlin information channels have suggested Zelenskyy is no longer in Kyiv. On February 26, Vyacheslav Volodin, a pro-Kremlin member of Russian parliament, wrote on his Telegram channel, “Zelenskyy left Kyiv in a hurry.” Kremlin-owned media outlets amplified the allegation. The next day, Zelenskyy recorded a video outside his Kyiv office to debunk the claim. And on March 8, the War with Fakes Telegram channel published a “debunk” suggesting that Zelenskyy is faking his videos to appear as though he is in Kyiv. Pro-Kremlin media once again amplified the post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian War Report: Russian false-flag operation seeks to drag Belarus into Ukraine war
> 
> 
> Ukrainian media reported that Russia attacked a Belarusian village from Ukrainian airspace in an attempt to make it appear that Ukraine had attacked Belarus and provoke Belarusian President Lukashenka to move troops into Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.atlanticcouncil.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> does it matter if he is Poland or Mars ..he's still kicking Putin's a$$


These people are desperate to clutch at straws. Soon they'll start quoting Q anon if that will suit their narrative

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507863616636305408

Ukrainians are surrendering in large numbers


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507837207310184449

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507761085331480588

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507670608380846083

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## sammuel

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505909278896443399



Thought the goal was to stop Ukraine from joining NATO . . .

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## Knockingdoors

Tamerlane said:


> Zelensky has been in Poland for more than three weeks now, yet the Western media still doesn’t want to admit it. Biden should have met Zelensky in Poland but that would have let the cat out of the bag.
> 
> Instead Zelensky is being allowed to slowly fade away.



Your posts have been the most outlandish and low quality then anyone else on this forum while lurking here for news updates


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## WotTen

Tamerlane said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500545501174935555



Ashraf Ghani to Zelensky, "let me show you how it's done, bro!"

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## Oldman1

Tamerlane said:


> Zelensky has been in Poland for more than three weeks now, yet the Western media still doesn’t want to admit it. Biden should have met Zelensky in Poland but that would have let the cat out of the bag.
> 
> Instead Zelensky is being allowed to slowly fade away.













sammuel said:


> Thought the goal was to stop Ukraine from joining NATO . . .


One of the goals. Theres like 10 other goals.

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## Tamerlane

Knockingdoors said:


> Your posts have been the most outlandish and low quality then anyone else on this forum while lurking here for news updates



Maybe you could enlighten us with your own views so that others can decide for themselves whose views are closer to reality.

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## MajesticPug

Paul2 said:


> OBOR was half-frozen for at least 3 years now, long before covid. Saying this as somebody working on an OBOR project.



LOL... When you lost a debate -- if it's one at all due to your citation of twisted facts or your twisted conclusion of the facts, you tried to mudsling your opponent. I've never been remotely related to the OBOR. To say OBOR is frozen for 3 years, you tell people you're ignorant of the project. Laos just connected to a major SE Chinese city hub by train. Because Laos is a landlocked country, it's one of the poorest countries in the world. Withe the train connection to China and then from there to the rest of OBOR, Laos people can sell their merchandises all over the world. The Laos train completion puts pressure on Thailand to finish their part of the OBOR, then Vietnam, Cambodia, and Burma.

_A couple days ago_ *in *_*Europe*_, Hungary and Serbia just celebrated the connection of their high-speed train (200 km/hr -- not as high as those in Western Europe and Asia but certainly the highest in Eastern Europe) financed and built by China. This will eventually connect to the port of Piraeus in Greece where China is converting it to a modern port that uses a lot of automation and AI (not seen in your countries UK or NZ, or the United States of Sanctions). 

In _Africa_, Ethiopia, Horn of Africa, Somalia, Sudan, etc..

In _ME_, Iran, UAE, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia are all busy talking to China. In fact, Iran struck a 40-year deal with China and I'm sure OBOR is in it.

But wait, in any of Anglo-Saxan states like NZ or Canada or UK, OBOR is dead. Yes these Anglo-Saxons are in the dead water. I'm sorry, did I miss any port or transportation hub that _*ANY *_of the Anglo-Saxon states is building? No..? I guess so.

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## A1Kaid

Vergennes said:


> This war showed us the scale of the fraud the Russian armed forces are. So much incompetence and corruption. Some on this forum thought those drunkards could steamroll Europe.



You've got to wise up, where have you been the past month? Russia is using a force mostly made up of paramilitary, Chechen forces, conscripts, and some army regulars for a total of 130k vs Ukraine's 200k and has only lightly used its air and naval power. They are fighting this war with their C grade military. In some ways it's a smart move because they are not expending their best assets to carry out this mission, but it does come at the cost of longer time, lack of cohesion, and mishaps. Despite this, they are still decisively winning the war with Ukrainian troops tied up mostly in Kyiv and other cities.

The rest of Russia's force is on standby in the homeland, and you can bet they would steamroll most European countries including western ones.

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## Oldman1

A1Kaid said:


> You've got to wise up, where have you been the past month? Russia is using a force mostly made up of paramilitary, Chechen forces, conscripts, and some army regulars for a total of 130k vs Ukraine's 200k and has only lightly used its air and naval power. They are fighting this war with their C grade military. In some ways it's a smart move because they are not expending their best assets to carry out this mission.
> 
> The rest of Russia's force is on standby in the homeland, and you can bet they would steamroll most European countries including western ones.


Its just another dumb move.


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## Hack-Hook

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505909278896443399


its not acceptable , there is a region in Moldova that has Russians ethnicity , i suggest the operation continue till they also join the fold


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## Knockingdoors

Tamerlane said:


> Maybe you could enlighten us with your own views so that others can decide for themselves whose views are closer to reality.



You have been uttered strange stuff such as going off-topic constantly in order to justice this war which is to be quite frank unnecessary because Russia is fighting against encirclement anyways hence no need to justice them by using underhanded tactics


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## Viet

Mariupol still standing?

Meanwhile

In a interministeriell government meeting, from Wladimir Medinski, the chief adviser to Vladimir Putin, leaks the growing fear in the Kremlin.
Russia can collapse under western sanctions.
Even the end of Russia civilization as we know it.















Putins Berater: Im Kreml wächst die Angst vorm Machtverlust


Ein Berater Wladimir Putins spricht über die wachsende Angst im Kreml. Russland befürchtet wegen des Kriegs in der Ukraine gar einen Zusammenbruch der Zivilisation.




www.fr.de

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## Clutch

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507694922895343619



*Perhaps Russia might send 5100 Russian SA-18 Grouse MANPAD to Al Qaeda ISIS or White Nationalist in German cities for some airport???... Tit for tat?*



Aviation Industry Mum on Russia’s Veiled Manpad Warning

by Gregory Polek and Charles Alcock

March 11, 2022, 12:25 PM

Sgt. Zane Pettibone and Spc. Svenson Albert, a Stinger Man-Portable Air Defense System (MANPADS) team with 1st Battalion, 16th Infantry Regiment, 1st Armored Brigade Combat Team, 1st Infantry Division, conduct engagement sequences and the 13 critical checks of the Stinger Man-Portable Air Defense System (MANPADS), as part of the multinational live-fire training exercise Shabla 19, June 11, 2019. (U.S. Army photo by Sgt. Thomas Mort)

*Russia has issued a warning that the transfer to Ukraine of manpads, including Stinger shoulder-fired air defense systems, pose a threat to civil aviation.* (Photo: Flickr: Creative Commons (BY) by The U.S. Army)

Russia has so far failed to provoke a reaction from Western aviation alphabet organizations with a recent warning about the threat to civil aircraft from surface-to-air missiles exported from the U.S. to Ukraine. In a March 5 statement, *Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova cited what she called the growing threat of man-portable air-defense systems (manpads) making their way into the hands of “terrorists or illegal armed groups, not only in Ukraine, but in Europe as well,*” thereby posing a “great danger” to civil aviation.


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## BHAN85

Dalit said:


> The Europeans and Americans are living in their own bubble. As you rightly say, the rest of the world has clearly stayed neutral. Also, the Western hypocrisy in the refugee handling has been laid bare.



Russian elite live in West Europe and USA spending large amount of money.

You can't punish Russian elite sanctioning them in a Africa country, because Russian elite doesnt travel or live in African poor countries. The same in the rest of the world.

USA wants a regime change in Russia, and they are punishing luxury life of Russian elite to achieve it.
They travel and live in the West, so USA is using European puppets, but they have a lot of more puppets in other countries that they are not using, e.g: they are not using Latin American puppet regimes to punish Russia, they dont need it.


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## Clutch

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506315902169534464
> Russian state media pundits casually speak of nuking European capitals




Western Right Wing media has been making almost daily threats of Nuking Muslim capitals for decades .... So what else is new?

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## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> Russian elite live in West Europe and USA spending large amount of money.
> 
> You can't punish Russian elite sanctioning them in a Africa country, because Russian elite doesnt travel or life to African poor countries. The same in the rest of the world.
> 
> USA wants a regime change in Russia, and they are punishing luxury life of Russian elite to achieve it.
> They travel and live in the West, so USA is using European puppets, but they have a lot of more puppets in other countries that they are not using, e.g: they are not using Latin American puppet regimes to punish Russia, they dont need it.


Rich Russians don’t live in Russia they live in the west. in Germany favorable here at Baden-Baden.


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## Clutch

zartosht said:


> Sergei karjakin.. one of the best chest players on earth and a famous ukrainian-russian . just got banned by FIDE chess for daring to support His Countries military.
> 
> Russians have the choice of openly denouncing their country or getting kicked out of any international competition, event or at minimum facing an avalanche of abuse and harrasment
> 
> Isnt it the mother of all Ironys though. One of the best chess players on earth (soon to be *THE greatest *chess player)alireza firouzja was stolen from Iran with western money. and heavily used as propaganda because he couldnt openly play against zionists he had to leave Iran.
> 
> 
> Now "free" France bans him from playing against Russians .... you really cant make this shit up anymore.
> 
> View attachment 827748
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 827749



This whole Ukraine-Russia conflict has only exposed the naked hypocrisy and their farcicy so-called freedoms and democracy. The West is just as brutal in oppression as any other nations.... 

Only if the naive Liberals in our countries could see instead of trying to monkey the hypocrites in the West. 

The Western hypocrisy is exposed for Only those who have eyes that can see

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## Tamerlane

Knockingdoors said:


> You have been uttered strange stuff such as going off-topic constantly in order to justice this war which is to be quite frank unnecessary because Russia is fighting against encirclement anyways hence no need to justice them by using underhanded tactics



I’m not really sure what you’re saying. Everything I say is related to this war, more on the political side than the military. 

I don’t really like to get into discussions with people. I read other people’s opinions and give my own, and leave it at that. Everyone is free to take it or leave it. Most people here support NATO, so presumably they’ll consider my opinions as incorrect. I’m fine with that.

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## mmr

Wood said:


> These people are desperate to clutch at straws. Soon they'll start quoting Q anon if that will suit their narrative


He he q anon ppl are entertaining. I used to go there to read those ppl comments to laugh my *** off.

Pdf kind of same in a way. U come here...read almost same bs daily...bla bla dollar falling....usa sucks...west sucks...bla bla...china this china that...thousands of threads alone how dollar is going away....putler is great....everything going according to plan lol.

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## WotTen

Viet said:


> Wladimir Medinski



Vladimir, Wladimir. Volodymyr

Seems Vladimir is to Slavic names what Elizabeth is to Anglo names.


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## Knockingdoors

Tamerlane said:


> I’m not really sure what you’re saying. Everything I say is related to this war, more on the political side than the military.
> 
> I don’t really like to get into discussions with people. I read other people’s opinions and give my own, and leave it at that. Everyone is free to take it or leave it. Most people here support NATO, so presumably they’ll consider my opinions as incorrect. I’m fine with that.



Not because of that because I don't support NATO but still find sometimes you mix water and milk in order to justice Russia and then again they don't even need justification in this case which is unnecessary


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## Knockingdoors

Mann Mariupol will enter the english dictionary now as reference for a city destroyed


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507965903777976323


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## Wood

Clutch said:


> Western Right Wing media has been making almost daily threats of Nuking Muslim capitals for decades .... So what else is new?


What's new is that the Russian state media is the only source of news for most Russian people.


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## thetutle

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507819537374146565
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507819613341454337
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507819641673900037
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507819792018788366
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507819910105239553
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507819938546814976


This is such an excellent and perceptive analysis. They are totally screwed. Even if they take most of Ukraine, its still not looking good for them. But the way things are going they wont take too much more.

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## thetutle

MajesticPug said:


> True. A hiccup. A bump. Nobody should expect the war lasts more than a few months. Why are people exaggerating the death of OBOR when the bumps are short in duration and regional only?


This was is laying the lines of a new Cold War. It will change the world for decades to come.


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## thetutle

The SC said:


> A lil off topic,, but important..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507769029443870720
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507850507607592961
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507843809224372236
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507784901332021251
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507801861184757762


Looks like Russia will soon begin the de-nazification of Azerbaijan. This is an open threat. Will the Russian fan boys here support Russia in "taking back" of Azerbaijan?


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## thetutle

LeGenD said:


> China is close to Russia, but it has looked to Ukraine for military tech
> 
> 
> Former Soviet republic supplied the PLA Navy’s first aircraft carrier, missile systems and a fighter jet prototype.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.scmp.com


China sourcing its equipment from Ukraine. that is just lol. Good luck to china


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## UKBengali

A1Kaid said:


> You've got to wise up, where have you been the past month? Russia is using a force mostly made up of paramilitary, Chechen forces, conscripts, and some army regulars for a total of 130k vs Ukraine's 200k and has only lightly used its air and naval power. They are fighting this war with their C grade military. In some ways it's a smart move because they are not expending their best assets to carry out this mission, but it does come at the cost of longer time, lack of cohesion, and mishaps. Despite this, they are still decisively winning the war with Ukrainian troops tied up mostly in Kyiv and other cities.
> 
> The rest of Russia's force is on standby in the homeland, and you can bet they would steamroll most European countries including western ones.






Dude, Russia has a military budget of 60 billion US dollars which is 150 billion US dollars in PPP.

At least half of this goes on their massive nuclear forces which leaves just 75 billion in PPP terms for their conventional forces.

This is not much more than the amount that a country like France spends on their conventional military - around 50% more.

Russia cannot spend so little on its conventional forces and have a large and capable one - one of the two has to give here.

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## Piotr

LeGenD said:


> *1.* Check my rebuttal in following post:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> frustrated at Irans geopolitical situation? are you kidding? Iran hasnt been sitting this pretty since Nader Shahs time.... just as we secured our geopolitical sphere of foreign influence, ended our dependence on oil revenue, made a durable economy able to withstand any sanction the west can...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *2. *Do I have to teach you the basics of reading and writing now? It would be much better for you to focus on contents (and lines of evidence) instead of deciding validity of sources on strictly country-origin basis.
> 
> I do *NOT* dismiss Russian sources for the sake of being Russian in person; I double-check contents for accuracy or credibility when I am not sure about something because Russian cyberwarfare practices are real and well-documented.
> 
> Destruction in Mariupol can be ascertained through following lines of evidence:
> 
> *2.1. Footage*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=249798317367205
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *2.2. Photographs*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haunting before and after photos show destruction of Ukraine's cities
> 
> 
> Heartbreaking images from Mariupol and Kyiv show the devastation with bombed-out schools, hospitals and government buildings - which once served as important sites before Russia invaded Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mirror.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photos: Mariupol residents escape besieged, devastated city
> 
> 
> About 30,000 people have been evacuated from the city, which has been under Russian bombardment for more than two weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine war: Images reveal scale of destruction in Mariupol
> 
> 
> Photos and satellite images show the devastation caused to the southern Ukrainian city, which is encircled by Russian troops.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *2.3. Survivor accounts*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A resident of Mariupol tells her story after fleeing the city's horrific destruction
> 
> 
> NPR's Debbie Elliott speaks with Alina Beskrovna, a native of the Ukrainian city of Mariupol. She was trapped there for weeks as Russian forces laid siege.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.npr.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Mariupol is now just hell': Survivors and drone footage reveal the scale of destruction | CNN
> 
> 
> Conditions in Mariupol are "unbearable" and "just hell," residents who fled the besieged city in southeastern Ukraine have told CNN, as shocking drone footage and satellite photos emerged showing the utter devastation wrought by the Russian bombardment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edition.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What more you want to see in this case?
> 
> *3.* Understand the concept of WMDs First and Foremost:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chemical biological, radiological and nuclear terrorism | Office of Counter-Terrorism
> 
> 
> Access to weapons of mass destruction The prospect of non-state actors, including terrorists and their supporters, gaining access to and using Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD)/Chemical Biological, Radiological and Nuclear (CBRN) materials is a serious threat to international peace and security...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.un.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iraq had a chemical weapons program:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remembering Halabja chemical attack
> 
> 
> Chemical weapons are the ultimate psychological weapon for those who are willing to use them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBC ON THIS DAY | 16 | 1988: Thousands die in Halabja gas attack
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.bbc.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American troops found hidden caches:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Secret Casualties of Iraq’s Abandoned Chemical Weapons (Published 2014)
> 
> 
> The Pentagon kept silent as munitions left over from Saddam Hussein’s war with Iran found new targets from 2004 to 2011: American and Iraqi troops.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WikiLeaks’ Inconvenient Truth about Iraqi Chemical Weapons
> 
> 
> Buried in the WikiLeaks avalanche of documents related to the war in Iraq are various reports about the discovery of chemical weapons caches inside Iraq—reports which contradict the revisionist narrative about the genesis of the war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.heritage.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Popular narrative notwithstanding.
> 
> Western sources such as Sky News, The Guardian and More of the same do *NOT* lie all the time.
> 
> *4.* You are repeating your assertions over and over again instead of comprehending information shared with you. This is BOT behavior (suspicious).
> 
> I have provided answers in following posts:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> Russian forcies (including that from Chechnya) managed to prevent Bandera forces from attacking Donbass Republics. Massive Bandera attack against Donbass Republics was planed for March. Russian forcies managed to stop US development of nuclear and biologicas weapons in the territory of the...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> Of course Russia send Chechens with cover and support. Nothing wrong with that. The problem is that Banderites are using civilians as human shields and Russia want as little civilian casualities as possible. It would be no problem for Russia to destroy Mariupol like USA destroyed Fallujah...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> Wow, it looks like the Ukrainians may actually be pushing the Russians back on all fronts. If this carries on, then sometime in April the Russians could be pretty much back to their starting positions and only gained some territory on the Donbas. Russians have already said that they don't want...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take your time to comprehend shared information and then get back to me.



Since you talk about teritorial integrity may you answer if you recognize Kosovo as part of Serbia or as independent country ?

Do you have any evidence that Zelensky is still in Kiev ?
True leader ? Millions of people fled the Ukraine after Maidan and before ongoing special military operation. I am not talking about people that fled because conflict in Donbas, I am talking about people that fled because of poverty. USA turned the Ukraine into the poorest country in Europe. Yes USA. They have overhelming influence over the Ukraine since their coup in 2014. Did they bring prosperity to the Ukraine ? No ! Just like USA didn't bring prosperity to Haiti which is in US sphere of influence since decades. USA is just using the Ukraine as a pawn against Russia and Ukrainians as cannon fodder. Zelensky is not a true leader. He is Kolomoyski's man and a comedian.

Who is responsible for destruction in Mariupol ? Certanly not Russia. It is Banderites that use civilians as human shields. It is Banderites that hide rocket launchers in supermarkets and near civilian buildings. What can Russia gain by destroying Mariupol ? Nothing ! It is Banderites and USA that are interesting in destroying Mariupol. Banderites hate people of Donbas and call them "separy" just like Bandera called them.

Fact is that Russian and Donbass forces are so far reluctant to storm cities like Kiev and Kharkov. They don't won't civilian casualities and destruction of civilian infrastructure.

US media claiming that USA alegedly found chemical weapons in Iraq is not a proof. It is US claim. Show me a proof not a claim.

I still can't find your answers to my questions:
How do you know that US “biological research facilities” are not engaged in producing biological weapons ? What are US “biological research facilities” doing in the Ukraine ? Why USA have “biological research facilities” abroad ?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507954140403666950

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507954143876550657

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507954145499697155

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507924728442408960

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Curious_Guy

I have been following this war,
at first i thought they will quickly blitz through Ukraine and then present their demands or install puppets 

but after it started it seem Russians are deliberately doing a slow light attack with intention to avoid civillian casualties and keep good faith among Ukrainian populous. 

but now after a month with huge losses on political, military and economic fronts & losing any public support that they had around the world ( i mean initially asians were siding with russia on many forums but now those voices are also dying down)., what are they upto? 

I am confused as hell, it is the Russia that the west fears, is thought to be a giant in at least military world & still that Russia is unable to get any strategic advantage in this war in immediate neighbourhood with lots of land connections. 

Russian army is a laughing stock now so why are they still continuing this hand brake invasion? i genuinely dont understand. 

p.s - i am no supporter of this war, it has to end but i want to understand Russian mind which in my opinion is as confused as mine at the moment with no clear goals after this shock of defence by Ukrainians

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## UKBengali

Curious_Guy said:


> I have been following this war,
> at first i thought they will quickly blitz through Ukraine and then present their demands or install puppets
> 
> but after it started it seem Russians are deliberately doing a slow light attack with intention to avoid civillian casualties and keep good faith among Ukrainian populous.
> 
> but now after a month with huge losses on political, military and economic fronts & losing any public support that they had around the world ( i mean initially asians were siding with russia on many forums but now those voices are also dying down)., what are they upto?
> 
> I am confused as hell, it is the Russia that the west fears, is thought to be a giant in at least military world & still that Russia is unable to get any strategic advantage in this war in immediate neighbourhood with lots of land connections.
> 
> Russian army is a laughing stock now so why are they still continuing this hand brake invasion? i genuinely dont understand.
> 
> p.s - i am no supporter of this war, it has to end but i want to understand Russian mind which in my opinion is as confused as mine at the moment with no clear goals after this shock of defence by Ukrainians





Dude, have you seen what the Russians have done to some Ukrainian cities like Mariupol?

Nearly all buildings are either destroyed or damaged.

Russians are just incompetent.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508002386811318272

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## Brainsucker

jhungary said:


> Depends on what do you want?
> 
> If you want to run Armor up in Urban environment without any casualty. that is NOT possible. That's why I keep saying you would not see me doing that.
> 
> But if you have to, there is a way to minimize your lost. Which is why the term "Combine Arms" is important.
> 
> Infantry need to screen ahead and make sure the immediate area of the tank is safe, then you need gun ship overhead to pick up contrail. The infantry job is to see if there are any type of encampment, you don't need to see the team, but if they had camp there (You usually leave team in place for days and rotate the position within a certain area), then you need to work with your Armor and artillery and try to find those team. Tank and Artillery can support the tea, a few kilometre away
> 
> If you can't and they fired, that's what's the gunship is for, they can pick up the trail as soon as they fired and put guns or rocket on them and eliminate them.
> 
> The problem is, they don't run gunship because they can't deal with the MANPAD threat, and since they don't run gunship, they probably did not bothered to run infantry screen/observer or check point to curb the AT team, either that, or they are really incompetent and think running Armor single along the road without either infantry and gunship on top is going to be okay....I am giving the Russian the benefit of the doubt,....



Hey Jhungary, that is a good post. I hope that you can compile your thought that you write here in separated thread. Because it is hard to read good post here because of Troll War. Including your troll post. 

Btw, you said that you need gunship, is it helicopter like Apache? But aren't they also have the same high risk like the armor?


----------



## Brainsucker

Curious_Guy said:


> I have been following this war,
> at first i thought they will quickly blitz through Ukraine and then present their demands or install puppets
> 
> but after it started it seem Russians are deliberately doing a slow light attack with intention to avoid civillian casualties and keep good faith among Ukrainian populous.
> 
> but now after a month with huge losses on political, military and economic fronts & losing any public support that they had around the world ( i mean initially asians were siding with russia on many forums but now those voices are also dying down)., what are they upto?
> 
> I am confused as hell, it is the Russia that the west fears, is thought to be a giant in at least military world & still that Russia is unable to get any strategic advantage in this war in immediate neighbourhood with lots of land connections.
> 
> Russian army is a laughing stock now so why are they still continuing this hand brake invasion? i genuinely dont understand.
> 
> p.s - i am no supporter of this war, it has to end but i want to understand Russian mind which in my opinion is as confused as mine at the moment with no clear goals after this shock of defence by Ukrainians



You can compare this war with US war in North Vietnam. It is comparable, because both countries don't get surrounded / besieged first by the aggressor. so they can always able to get help from the neighboring country. For North Vietnam, they could get help from China and USSR from the north. While for Ukraine, they can get weapon, etc from the west. 

A war like this will cause huge casualty to the attacker. Because you fight virtually the whole nation that the morale still high. It is different to Iraq and Afghanistan that the area has been surrounded / besieged by US. And siege warfare can cause the lost morale to the defender, because they are hopeless.


----------



## WotTen

UKBengali said:


> Dude, have you seen what the Russians have done to some Ukrainian cities like Mariupol?
> 
> Nearly all buildings are either destroyed or damaged.
> 
> Russians are just incompetent.



Destroying buildings but VERY careful to limit civilian casualties.

I still think the Russians are running this war with kid gloves. They could target the urban areas' electricity and water supplies and bring real pain to civilians inside.


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## Georg

WotTen said:


> Destroying buildings but VERY careful to limit civilian casualties.
> 
> I still think the Russians are running this war with kid gloves. They could target the urban areas' electricity and water supplies and bring real pain to civilians inside.



Did you even see pictures from Ukraine citys that are getting freeded by russian war criminals? Not a single building left without getting shoot at ... Russian Army cares zerro about civilians


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507964250899324929

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## Paul2

Brainsucker said:


> Hey Jhungary, that is a good post. I hope that you can compile your thought that you write here in separated thread. Because it is hard to read good post here because of Troll War. Including your troll post.
> 
> Btw, you said that you need gunship, is it helicopter like Apache? But aren't they also have the same high risk like the armor?



I think the rationale is that it's unlikelly that the ambush will involve a ton of ATGMs, and a ton of MANPADS.

A decade or so ago, it would've been quite a sizeable force, easy to spot, but not today with disposable 10kg man portable ATGMs easily killing any MBT by roof hits.

The point is a much lighter force can forestall an offensive of sizeable armoured formation, and outright defeat anything smaller, to which the only counter at the moment is to grow formations even bigger.

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## WotTen

Georg said:


> Did you even see pictures from Ukraine citys that are getting freeded by russian war criminals? Not a single building left without getting shoot at ... Russian Army cares zerro about civilians



Destroyed buildings can be rebuilt easily with Western money.
The civilian death toll after more than a month is still under 1000.

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## AZMwi

b


PaklovesTurkiye said:


> LMAO....
> 
> What is he doing....Never seen launching of missile like that


bhai ka apna hi swag hai lol


----------



## Knockingdoors

I expect the fighting to become much stronger and perhaps even new offensive measures during this month as the weather will break into warm


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## jhungary

Brainsucker said:


> Hey Jhungary, that is a good post. I hope that you can compile your thought that you write here in separated thread. Because it is hard to read good post here because of Troll War. Including your troll post.
> 
> Btw, you said that you need gunship, is it helicopter like Apache? But aren't they also have the same high risk like the armor?


That's because the person asked a good question, and I answer them, I am like James Blunt on twitter but a lot less famous, (Really, we do share a lot of similarity, he was in Royal Household Cavalry and I was a 19A) if I got trolled, I trolled back. But if you ask me a good question, I will try to deliver a good answer.

Anyway, gunship can mean anything up on the air, you can even do that with drone nowadays, but in the old days, yes, that mean apache or viper, or even even Blackhawk with external pylons loaded with rocket or hellfire. 

There are ways to deal with MANPAD, especially when you are running a combine arms ops. The key is you need to be the one that keep the pressure, because as I said, those are considered static defence (you can't redeploy AT team and AA team quickly) Mobility is the key, that is true for both Armor and Gunship.

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## jhungary

The truth (or untruth) of Neo Nazism in Russian Perspective summed up pretty well by BBC

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## thetutle

LeGenD said:


> China is close to Russia, but it has looked to Ukraine for military tech
> 
> 
> Former Soviet republic supplied the PLA Navy’s first aircraft carrier, missile systems and a fighter jet prototype.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.scmp.com


China sourcing its equipment from Ukraine. that is just lol. Good luck to china


Curious_Guy said:


> I have been following this war,
> at first i thought they will quickly blitz through Ukraine and then present their demands or install puppets
> 
> but after it started it seem Russians are deliberately doing a slow light attack with intention to avoid civillian casualties and keep good faith among Ukrainian populous.
> 
> but now after a month with huge losses on political, military and economic fronts & losing any public support that they had around the world ( i mean initially asians were siding with russia on many forums but now those voices are also dying down)., what are they upto?
> 
> I am confused as hell, it is the Russia that the west fears, is thought to be a giant in at least military world & still that Russia is unable to get any strategic advantage in this war in immediate neighbourhood with lots of land connections.
> 
> Russian army is a laughing stock now so why are they still continuing this hand brake invasion? i genuinely dont understand.
> 
> p.s - i am no supporter of this war, it has to end but i want to understand Russian mind which in my opinion is as confused as mine at the moment with no clear goals after this shock of defence by Ukrainians


I think we are all shocked at Russians weakness. They have showed themselves to be joke in conventional power. 

The russian mind works like this. We are very very strong and the west fears us. Our army could conquer Europe in 1 month. We are destroying Ukraine and invasion is going exactly according to plan. We have lost 1,300 soldiers but o my because we are invading carefully to not cause too many Ukranian casualties. 

In every Russian mind is the same state as Hitler in 1945. Russians are moving imaginary divisions across maps and matching nato in firepower only in the comfort of their own mind. 

And if the very last Russian tank coloumn was to be destroyed and their army finished off, nothing in their mind would change. This fantasy would remain unaltered.


----------



## Wood

jhungary said:


> The truth (or untruth) of Neo Nazism in Russian Perspective summed up pretty well by BBC


Here is the far-right party's reported political performance over the recent years in Ukraine







I'm sure that there are NATO countries whose far right parties have more than 2% vote share. When was Putin planning to invade them? The Ukrainians seem like they were voting out the Nazis on their own

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## jhungary

Wood said:


> Here is the far-right party's reported political performance over the recent years in Ukraine
> 
> View attachment 827826
> 
> 
> I'm sure that there are NATO countries whose far right parties have more than 2% vote share. When was Putin planning to invade them? The Ukrainians seem like they were voting out the Nazis on their own


I am sure Russia Far Right party have more than 2% shares........

Anyway, as I mentioned before, the reason why people keep saying Ukraine is Nazi and uses Azov as an example.....These people are the one that know nothing about Far Right extremism in Ukraine...lol

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508041546989547537


----------



## jhungary

Curious_Guy said:


> I have been following this war,
> at first i thought they will quickly blitz through Ukraine and then present their demands or install puppets
> 
> but after it started it seem Russians are deliberately doing a slow light attack with intention to avoid civillian casualties and keep good faith among Ukrainian populous.
> 
> but now after a month with huge losses on political, military and economic fronts & losing any public support that they had around the world ( i mean initially asians were siding with russia on many forums but now those voices are also dying down)., what are they upto?
> 
> I am confused as hell, it is the Russia that the west fears, is thought to be a giant in at least military world & still that Russia is unable to get any strategic advantage in this war in immediate neighbourhood with lots of land connections.
> 
> Russian army is a laughing stock now so why are they still continuing this hand brake invasion? i genuinely dont understand.
> 
> p.s - i am no supporter of this war, it has to end but i want to understand Russian mind which in my opinion is as confused as mine at the moment with no clear goals after this shock of defence by Ukrainians


The Russian playbook is "Escalate to Deescalate" which mean they will pump more effort into a losing operation in order to seek a better ground when they negotiate. They will not backdown and sue for peace, they will simply keep escalating the whole thing until it reach a point where you feel uncomfortable, so you will agree in their favor at peace talk. 

That is why they keep putting stuff in this war, there are no perspective for Russian to win this war (Not since day 14 actually), they are simply escalating it because they think they will come out ahead if they double down on a failure.

As for why the Russian perform so badly in this war? Well, I can write an entire article on this alone, but the TLDR version is, a combination of ineptness, intelligence failure and corruption.

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## jhungary

WotTen said:


> Destroyed buildings can be rebuilt easily with Western money.
> The civilian death toll after more than a month is still under 1000.


1000 in 4 weeks....That's actually a lot. That is more than the American and its allies did to Afghanistan 

NGO backed by UNHCR put the civilian killed during the whole 20 years at 180,000 at the low end, 210,000 at the high end, bear in mind this figure is the entire war and death are counted not just from the Allied side. If we break down the number, that is roughly 200 a week that is being killed at high end.

The same NGO and UN estimate 1100 civilian killed in the first 4 weeks, which is closer to 300 a week (270 give or take) that is a lot in just 4 weeks......


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507790632777134090

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508008852150788097

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508006048577339397


----------



## jamal18

WotTen said:


> Destroyed buildings can be rebuilt easily with Western money.
> The civilian death toll after more than a month is still under 1000.


Sure? Seems very light.


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> I think the rationale is that it's unlikelly that the ambush will involve a ton of ATGMs, and a ton of MANPADS.
> 
> A decade or so ago, it would've been quite a sizeable force, easy to spot, but not today with disposable 10kg man portable ATGMs easily killing any MBT by roof hits.
> 
> The point is a much lighter force can forestall an offensive of sizeable armoured formation, and outright defeat anything smaller, to which the only counter at the moment is to grow formations even bigger.


ATGM threat on Armoured vehicle exist long before Operation Desert Storm, I remember when I was a 19A we need to train with Sagger Drill, which is something the Israeli developed when they ran into Egyptian ATGM during Yom Kippur war back in the 70s. 

The threat is the same, just that today it's faster and less time to react.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507766558176673792

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7


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508047185463631877

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508034720847781889

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508034717001605132

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508034718880645125

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1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507406840702947328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508031689561448450

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508028692836061185

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508019568190836737


----------



## A1Kaid

UKBengali said:


> Dude, Russia has a military budget of 60 billion US dollars which is 150 billion US dollars in PPP.
> 
> At least half of this goes on their massive nuclear forces which leaves just 75 billion in PPP terms for their conventional forces.
> 
> This is not much more than the amount that a country like France spends on their conventional military - around 50% more.
> 
> Russia cannot spend so little on its conventional forces and have a large and capable one - one of the two has to give here.



"At least half goes on their massive nuclear force". No, you really don't know what you're talking about. Your basic facts are wrong.

And secondly, Putin did not declare "war" on Ukraine he declared a special military operation. One is a subset of the other. If this was a full out war for Russia you would see them utilize the full force of their air force, navy, and army.

I think you and some of the retired western laymen who hang out the forum need to read more into the situation and stop just reading western sources. Let me guess you probably think Ukraine is winning...

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508065268370575364

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## thetutle

WotTen said:


> Vladimir, Wladimir. Volodymyr
> 
> Seems Vladimir is to Slavic names what Elizabeth is to Anglo names.


the name means "ruler of the world".


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508078103016488963


----------



## UKBengali

A1Kaid said:


> "At least half goes on their massive nuclear force". No, you really don't know what you're talking about. Your basic facts are wrong.
> 
> And secondly, Putin did not declare "war" on Ukraine he declared a special military operation. One is a subset of the other. If this was a full out war for Russia you would see them utilize the full force of their air force, navy, and army.
> 
> I think you and some of the retired western laymen who hang out the forum need to read more into the situation and stop just reading western sources. Let me guess you probably think Ukraine is winning...




How much do you think it costs Russia to maintain and deploy 6000 nuclear warheads and the associated delivery vehicles do you think?

Russia has land based MRBM, ICBMs, air-launched cruise missiles, SSBNs with next gen SLBMS.

Pakistan with maybe 1/20th Russia's nuclear arsenal at most spends several billions every year. I do not think Russian costs would be less than Pakistan.

I don't want to insult you here, but I suggest you do some little research before replying here.

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## gambit

A1Kaid said:


> "At least half goes on their massive nuclear force". No, you really don't know what you're talking about. Your basic facts are wrong.
> 
> And secondly, *Putin did not declare "war" on Ukraine he declared a special military operation. One is a subset of the other. If this was a full out war for Russia you would see them utilize the full force of their air force, navy, and army.*
> 
> I think you and some of the retired western laymen who hang out the forum need to read more into the situation and stop just reading western sources. Let me guess you probably think Ukraine is winning...


Am traveling so I may not have time to go thru the latest comments in this discussion...

But if anyone truly believe what you said, their country deserves to be defeated in battle. It *IS* a war no matter how Poutine tries to play with words.

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## A1Kaid

UKBengali said:


> Are you actually a "Think Tank Analyst" with some of your posts here that I have seen lately?
> 
> How much do you think it costs Russia to maintain and deploy 6000 nuclear warheads and the associated delivery vehicles do you think?
> 
> Russia has land based MRBM, ICBMs, air-launched cruise missiles, SSBNs with next gen SLBMS.
> 
> Pakistan with maybe 1/20th Russia's nuclear arsenal at most spends several billions every year. I do not think Russian costs would be less than Pakistan.
> 
> I don't want to insult you here, but I suggest you do some little research before replying here.






UKBengali said:


> Dude, Russia has a military budget of 60 billion US dollars which is 150 billion US dollars in PPP.
> 
> *At least half of this goes on their massive nuclear forces which leaves just 75 billion in PPP terms for their conventional forces.*
> 
> This is not much more than the amount that a country like France spends on their conventional military - around 50% more.
> 
> Russia cannot spend so little on its conventional forces and have a large and capable one - one of the two has to give here.



I told you to check your basic facts but obviously that was too much to ask lay folks like you. You claimed Russia spends at least half of its $60bn military budget on supporting its nuclear forces, the fact is nobody publicly knows the actual amount they spend as that is classified information. The only info we have is what Russia chooses to publish and that is they *spend roughly 17% of their defense budget on their nuclear program as of 2016*. The true amount is never disclosed.



> In 2010 total estimated spending on nuclear weapons was 194 billion roubles ($5.6 billion), equivalent to 15.3 per cent of total spending on ‘national defence’, *compared with 521 billion roubles ($9.3 billion) or 17.2 per cent of ‘national defence’ spending* in 2016 (excluding from ‘national defence’ a large one-off settlement of past defence industry debt). Not surprisingly, with the increased volume of procurement of new delivery systems for nuclear munitions since 2010, the share of total defence spending devoted to the nuclear triad has grown steadily in recent years.








How much does Russia spend on nuclear weapons? | SIPRI


This topical backgrounder begins with an overview of Russia’s large-scale nuclear modernization programme, which started after the adoption of its state armament programme for 2011–20. It then outlines Russia’s nuclear institutions and how the expenditure is managed within Russia’s federal...




www.sipri.org







> UKBengali said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want to insult you here, but I suggest you do some little research before replying here.
Click to expand...


Kid you're not even in a position to insult, you're embarrassing yourself thinking any country spends half of its budget on their nuclear program let alone pretending you know how much Russia actually spends. Now either post facts or shut up and admit you're wrong. Too many people posting bs data and claims here without any fact checking.



gambit said:


> Am traveling so I may not have time to go thru the latest comments in this discussion...
> 
> But if anyone truly believe what you said, their country deserves to be defeated in battle. It *IS* a war no matter how Poutine tries to play with words.



Gambit, do you know what a subset of a war means? Technically special military operations != war. If US conducts a military operation in Somalia or another country, it doesn't mean it's technically a war. There is armed conflict going on at LoC between Pakistan and India right now albeit very low intensity compared to this but armed conflict alone doesn't equal war. There is a threshold.

Don't get me wrong, this of course is an armed conflict but for Russia its a military op not a full fledged war, it's a war for Ukraine however.

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## gambit

Dalit said:


> After 20 years you guys couldn't win in Afghanistan. The Ukraine war is not a month old. Give it some time ans you will see that Russia will secure its objectives.


In the future, military academies *WILL* use Ukraine over Afghanistan as example on how not to conduct a war. But as far as the US military is concerned, the more foreign military academies uses Afghanistan, the more we like it.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508088898504822797


----------



## sur

sur said:


> Related to the quoted post:
> 
> U.S. and allies quietly prepare for a Ukrainian government-in-exile and a long insurgency​[. . .] in Washington and European capitals,* officials anticipate that the Russian military will reverse its early losses*, setting the stage for a long, bloody insurgency.
> [. . .] Officials have been reluctant to discuss detailed plans, since they’re *premised on a Russian military victory* that, however likely, hasn’t happened yet.
> [. . .] Ukraine’s *allies are planning for how to help establish* and support a* government-in-exile*, which could direct guerrilla operations against Russian occupiers.
> [. . .] *weapons the United States has provided* to Ukraine’s military, and that continue to flow into the country,* would be crucial to the success of an insurgent movement*
> [. . .] take up a $10 billion
> [. . .] The *possible Russian takeover of Kyiv has prompted a flurry of planning at* the State Department, Pentagon and other U.S. agencies in the event that the Zelensky government has to flee the capital or the country itself.
> [. . .] United States diverted some military aid to Ukraine that it had planned to send to Afghanistan, but that package mostly included small arms, ammunition and medical kits
> [. . .] As the *Russian military struggles with logistical challenges *— including fuel and food shortages — Waltz anticipates that the Ukrainians will repeatedly strike Russian supply lines. To do that, they need a steady supply of weapons and the *ability to set improvised explosive devices*, he said. “*Those supply lines are going to be very, very vulnerable, and that’s where you really literally starve the Russian army*.”
> [. . .] Continuing a resistance campaign *will require continued clandestine shipments of small arms, ammunition, explosives* and even cold-weather gear. “Think about the kinds of things that would be used by* saboteurs as opposed to an army *repelling a frontal invasion,” Moulton said. *Officials remain cautious about overt support for a Ukrainian insurgency lest it draw NATO member *countries into direct conflict with Russia. In Moscow’s eyes, support for a Zelensky government operating in Poland could constitute an attack by the alliance, some officials warned.
> [. . .] *successful insurgencies*. Veterans of such conflicts say that *the Ukrainians so far have demonstrated the key ingredient*. “The number one thing you have to have is people on the ground who want to fight,”
> [. . .] If Russian and Ukrainian negotiators who have been meeting near the border in Belarus reach some settlement, that will likely diminish the momentum for an insurgency and support for it [_so the dreamers of protracted insurgency will have a problem with a successful negotiations and would want them to fail ?_]
> [. . .] “As occupation progresses and extends for a longer time, what can start out as a more centralized resistance often changes into smaller resistance groups or units. It is not a negative thing,” she said. “In fact, smaller groups allow more resilience.”
> [. . .] as stocks of ammunition dwindle and the Russian military extends its encirclement of major cities. . . . Russian occupation forces will try to squeeze supply pipelines and cut off cities.
> [. . .] Ukraine should be preparing its citizens for combat in cities . . . they should establish safe areas underground to survive. . .place snipers on rooftops.
> [. . .] Putin might attempt to reduce Ukraine “to a much smaller state.” . .western Ukraine would remain independent. The other territories would be incorporated into Russia, occupied, or declared independent states, as the Kremlin has already done with the Donetsk and Luhansk regions. But Russia’s ability to impose that vision is “most improbable,” the diplomat said, given the profound anger in Ukraine against the Russian invasion.
> 
> 
> 
> Another similar article:
> As war loomed, U.S. armed Ukraine to hit Russian aircraft, tanks and prep for urban combat, declassified shipment list shows​...The list indicates that *as early as December, the Pentagon was equipping Ukrainian* fighters...



​Russia’s war in Ukraine galvanizes extremists globally​
*. . For neo-Nazis and white supremacists, “Ukraine could become *their version of what *Afghanistan *was for the jihadi movement in the 1980s,”
. . graphic circulated by the neo-Nazi . . “Nationalists help nationalists.”
. . “During the fighting* in Ukraine, nationalists are at the forefront*.” . . among them the *far-right Azov* Battalion.
. . has galvanized *hardliners*,* from neo-Nazis* supporting paramilitary factions *to militant Islamists* who see cracks in Western power . . *have a very low threshold* for using weapons and lethal force,”
. . *Some *are *backing Ukraine*’s struggle for sovereignty, but many *others *are *aligning *themselves* with Putin*
. . *active online recruitment* suggests that a drawn-out conflict *could attract *many more . . *right-wing extremists*, *including within* the ranks of the *German military*.





Since the YT video in quoted post has been deleted, so here's alternate link:
@13:19+


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508090504881184773

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508091226326659074

The perfect weapon for future Ukrainian forces


----------



## CrazyZ

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508078103016488963


Appears Skiff can be remotely operated. Definitely a feature that I have always felt would be great for PA's Baktar Shikan (HJ-8 variant). Great for a defenders.



gambit said:


> In the future, military academies *WILL* use Ukraine over Afghanistan as example on how not to conduct a war. But as far as the US military is concerned, the more foreign military academies uses Afghanistan, the more we like it.


Afghanistan and Ukraine are two completely different types of wars. Ukraine has lessons for conventional warfare and Afghanistan has lessons for unconventional warfare and the issues with nation building.

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## Meengla

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507766558176673792



No one matters in this conflict's narrative except for America's narrative and that too is sourced from only a small cabal of people who drive wars for profiteering. There are powerful lobbies working on Congressmen and Senators to drive American policy. In a recent video, Colonel Macgregor, who has almost become a whistle-blower, said that it takes $20,000-30,000 of lobbying money just to enter a Senator's office, aided by lobbies. If people can kill for a $50 bill then imagine what they could do for a $1 billion dollar pay off. 

If the cabal changes its position about this conflict then the dominant narrative will also change. Notice how 'Indo-Pacific' has become an established geographic entity within only last few years?? That's the power of the American led global narrative. 

Here, a prominent UK blogger Russel Brand is talking about the connection of this war and profiteering. And he has to be very careful using lest he too gets 'cancelled'.

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## gambit

CrazyZ said:


> Afghanistan and Ukraine are two completely different types of wars. Ukraine has lessons for conventional warfare and Afghanistan has lessons for unconventional warfare and the issues with nation building.


We (US) know that. But what we want is for other leaders and their military advisors to *NOT* know that.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508095055537610755

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## gambit

In every war, there come a point where the irrelevancy of a technology and/or technical aspect of the war trespassed the point of no return.

For example, the VKS is effectively irrelevant. Am not saying the VKS cannot continue to drop bombs, but the issue is whether its continuation is enough to affect the outcome.

It seems, perhaps early, that the outcome of the war rests on the brutality of individual battles, whether it is soldiers against soldiers or tanks against tanks. I have no problems declaring airpower irrelevant if/when the progress demands it, and right now, airpower, specifically the fixed wing variety, is irrelevant. There is no longer the need for finesse of strategies or creative use of historical precedents. It is now which side can inflict the most pain in the most blunt methods. The irrelevancy of a technology and/or technical aspect of a war does not mean a guarantee of a loss to any side. It just mean the war has gradually moved to a less sophisticated phase.

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## kingQamaR

WotTen said:


> Destroying buildings but VERY careful to limit civilian casualties.
> 
> I still think the Russians are running this war with kid gloves. They could target the urban areas' electricity and water supplies and bring real pain to civilians inside.


Sorry Putinbots you may temporarily distract the weak minded by referring back to past events but the pictures of dead and dying women and children arrive daily and wont be so easily dismissed.


----------



## Vergennes

A1Kaid said:


> "At least half goes on their massive nuclear force". No, you really don't know what you're talking about. Your basic facts are wrong.
> 
> And secondly, Putin did not declare "war" on Ukraine he declared a special military operation. One is a subset of the other. If this was a full out war for Russia you would see them utilize the full force of their air force, navy, and army.
> 
> I think you and some of the retired western laymen who hang out the forum need to read more into the situation and stop just reading western sources. Let me guess you probably think Ukraine is winning...

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## UKBengali

Vergennes said:


> View attachment 827890






This is the lamest excuse I have heard for a war going badly ever.



We sent our B team as the A team is being held back for better opponents.

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## Vergennes

UKBengali said:


> This is the lamest excuse I have heard for a war going badly ever.
> 
> 
> 
> We sent our B team as the A team is being held back for better opponents.



That is a load of crap "muh the best Russian army is at home,they aren't using their whole force and most modern equipments,they send conscripts". Their armed forces are trash,simple as it is.

Those VDV,Spetsnaz,Rosgvardia,Chechens etc. are considered as "Russia's elite troops" and yet they performed soo poorly,wouldn't imagine the rest. Sheer incompetence and corruption gets you this result.

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## Georg

WotTen said:


> Destroyed buildings can be rebuilt easily with Western money.
> The civilian death toll after more than a month is still under 1000.



according to RT news?

according to UN 1119 killed civiias...BUT according to UN the real number is much higher, that are only the civilians the UN can confirm... in many areas are no UN inspectors able to count civilian victims. Specialy in the areas with intense figthing

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> In every war, there come a point where the irrelevancy of a technology and/or technical aspect of the war trespassed the point of no return.
> 
> For example, the VKS is effectively irrelevant. Am not saying the VKS cannot continue to drop bombs, but the issue is whether its continuation is enough to affect the outcome.
> 
> It seems, perhaps early, that the outcome of the war rests on the brutality of individual battles, whether it is soldiers against soldiers or tanks against tanks. I have no problems declaring airpower irrelevant if/when the progress demands it, and right now, airpower, specifically the fixed wing variety, is irrelevant. There is no longer the need for finesse of strategies or creative use of historical precedents. It is now which side can inflict the most pain in the most blunt methods. The irrelevancy of a technology and/or technical aspect of a war does not mean a guarantee of a loss to any side. It just mean the war has gradually moved to a less sophisticated phase.


Ground war are NEVER pretty, and it does not really matter how much technological advance, when you are in build up area, all those technological advancement goes out of the window, and it's about sheer will for who wanted it most to win.

It may have lost on everyone here, but if you look at the 2 city that Russian took, they took it without having to actually fight for it, the defender withdrew to protect other asset that were closer (Kherson is vacated by the defender in favor of defending Odesa and Melitopol is vacated by the defender in favor of defending Mariupol.) And in the end, when it come to taking a city by force, technology or sophistication won't help you. Because it is all about close quarter, man against man warfare....

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## UKBengali

Georg said:


> according to RT news?
> 
> according to UN 1119 killed civiias...BUT according to UN the real number is much higher, that are only the civilians the UN can confirm... in many areas are no UN inspectors able to count civilian victims. Specialy in the areas with intense figthing





Sadly thousands of civilians have already died and they may even outnumber the Ukrainian military deaths as Russia has resorted to launching a war of attrition by bombing and shelling Ukrainian villages, towns and cities.

Brings some perspective on the trivialities in our lives that stress us all from time to time.


----------



## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> That is a load of crap "muh the best Russian army is at home,they aren't using their whole force and most modern equipments,they send conscripts". Their armed forces are trash,simple as it is.
> 
> Those VDV,Spetsnaz,Rosgvardia,Chechens etc. are considered as "Russia's elite troops" and yet they performed soo poorly,wouldn't imagine the rest. Sheer incompetence and corruption gets you this result.


Well, why is this a big surprise??

In the west, we have ex-General comment on the war, in Russia, these people quote people like Russell Brand.....



Georg said:


> according to RT news?
> 
> according to UN 1119 killed civiias...BUT according to UN the real number is much higher, that are only the civilians the UN can confirm... in many areas are no UN inspectors able to count civilian victims. Specialy in the areas with intense figthing


I would say they lost 1000 civilian alone in Mariupol.......Let alone the entire country.........


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## Georg

UKBengali said:


> Sadly thousands of civilians have already died and they may even outnumber the Ukrainian military deaths as Russia has resorted to launching a war of attrition by bombing and shelling Ukrainian villages, towns and cities.
> 
> Brings some perspective on the trivialities in our lives that stress us all from time to time.


the best part is that the russian looses outnumber the ukraine military and civilian by ligthyears... the incompetent Russian Army gets badly *** kicked...
7 Generals lost in Action in one months shows the incompetense of this shit russian Army

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## UKBengali

Georg said:


> the best part is that the russian looses outnumber the ukraine military and civilian by ligthyears... the incompetent Russian Army gets badly *** kicked...
> 7 Generals lost in Action in one months shows the incompetense of this shit russian Army





I am sure that Ukrainians are getting intelligence from Nato in order to be able to target these Generals with ease.

Although they are brave and competent, they seem to know exactly what the Russians are going to do and at what time - information that only Nato can provide them with.


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## Deliorman

There is a huge risk for Ukrainians in killing all these high ranking Russians officers and commanders. Maybe the people that come to take their place will actually be COMPETENT this time.

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## Clutch

jhungary said:


> The Russian playbook is "Escalate to Deescalate" which mean they will pump more effort into a losing operation in order to seek a better ground when they negotiate. They will not backdown and sue for peace, they will simply keep escalating the whole thing until it reach a point where you feel uncomfortable, so you will agree in their favor at peace talk.
> 
> That is why they keep putting stuff in this war, there are no perspective for Russian to win this war (Not since day 14 actually), they are simply escalating it because they think they will come out ahead if they double down on a failure.
> 
> As for why the Russian perform so badly in this war? Well, I can write an entire article on this alone, but the TLDR version is, a combination of ineptness, intelligence failure and corruption.



I agree with this assessment. I am coming from a more neutral position (slightly tilted towards Russia because of NATO Western hypocrisy and clandestine support for escalation) .... And I agree with what you have stated.

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## Georg

UKBengali said:


> I am sure that Ukrainians are getting intelligence from Nato in order to be able to target these Generals with ease.
> 
> Although they are brave and competent, they seem to know exactly what the Russians are going to do and at what time - informatio that only Nato can provide them with.



I am sure about that... airtraffic spotter see that lot of NATO AVACS system patrol at the boarder to Ukraine and Belarus to scan troop movement, what puzzle me the most that the majority of Russian radio transmitting is on open frequency allows everyone to listen to them... and RT propaganda TV helps Ukraine too... reporting from the ship that unload equipment with the harbour in the background... they knowed exactly were it was unloading its stuff and got sunk ... one thing in this conflict is unlimited...russian incompetence



Deliorman said:


> There is a huge risk for Ukrainians in killing all these high ranking Russians officers and commanders. Maybe the people that come to take their place will actually be COMPETENT this time.



The Russian Army from top to button is filled with YES talker... a corrupt officer corp... completely incompetent


----------



## Viet

Georg said:


> I am sure about that... airtraffic spotter see that lot of NATO AVACS system patrol at the boarder to Ukraine and Belarus to scan troop movement, what puzzle me the most that the majority of Russian radio transmitting is on open frequency allows everyone to listen to them... and RT propaganda TV helps Ukraine too... reporting from the ship that unload equipment with the harbour in the background... they knowed exactly were it was unloading its stuff and got sunk ... one thing in this conflict is unlimited...russian incompetence


The Russians apparently buy not only lots of cheap chinese truck tires but cheap military equipment. The US knew weeks before the invasion. They know all troop positions, they know everything, even blood banks to the front. The shows all telecom transmissions of Russia army are hacked.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508060778062139397

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## srshkmr

Georg said:


> the best part is that the russian looses outnumber the ukraine military and civilian by ligthyears... the incompetent Russian Army gets badly *** kicked...
> 7 Generals lost in Action in one months shows the incompetense of this shit russian Army


I think that most of the officers/generals killed is mainly because of captured comms from Russian troops


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## jhungary

UKBengali said:


> I am sure that Ukrainians are getting intelligence from Nato in order to be able to target these Generals with ease.
> 
> Although they are brave and competent, they seem to know exactly what the Russians are going to do and at what time - information that only Nato can provide them with.


Problem with the general goes deeper than that.

Russian Army structure, inherited from the Soviet Army, did not have a functioning Non-Commission Officer corp. The Rank sergeant are giving to professional soldier (very much like the US rank of Specialist E-4) that are focus on the career path.

It resulting in 2 issues.

1.) General Officers are a lot younger, and usually without too much troop command experience. Most General in the US Army are 50-60 years old, while most General in Russian Army are mid-40+

2.) The lacking of NCO corps means the officer job is to micromanage the company/battalion on the field. In the US, even inside a platoon, a 2LT would most likely delegate task to their NCO and take on a more overall command role, yes a 2LT would still be on the front line, however, the higher the ranks get, the further away the battlefield you would be in. In Russia, most officer are on the frontline because of the lacking of NCO corps.

Since NCO run the battlefield, in Russian case, Junior Officer is the one that taking on NCO job and run the battlefield forefront. And when the General Officer is coming down the line and "Kick some a$$" unlike the US counterpart, those general is not going to be visiting a TOC or Headquarter to kick those people in gear, instead, they will need to be in the frontline because the junior officer are all on the frontline.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508107320290652160

This is wild if true

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## K_Bin_W

Straight from the horse's mouth....


----------



## Clutch



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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> View attachment 827890





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508059607729586180


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508112108478738434

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508103551561740289


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508095055537610755





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508080349728944130
▫️Unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) detected enemy's camouflaged firing position in the forest.

💥Self-propelled artillery mount of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the ammunition carried to it were destroyed.



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508112108478738434
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508103551561740289





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508069913864380420


----------



## Meengla

Clutch said:


> I agree with this assessment. I am coming from a more neutral position (slightly tilted towards Russia because of NATO Western hypocrisy and clandestine support for escalation) .... And I agree with what you have stated.



Pakistan has no dog in this fight and should not make the recent anger over America-Pakistan relationship to influence them too much. We should hope and pray for peace especially because otherwise Pakistan is not that far from Europe if the conflict spreads or nukes are used. 

BUT... it is also useful to point toward the causes for the current war which are much more than some 'freedom and democracy' agenda. The world was sold lies about the Iraq war with catastrophic consequences for tens of millions of people and with generations to suffer. The power behind this conflict lies in America--in the cabal which profits from wars. And that fact should be highlighted and spread.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508007963944001541

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> That is a load of crap "muh the best Russian army is at home,they aren't using their whole force and most modern equipments,they send conscripts". Their armed forces are trash,simple as it is.
> 
> Those VDV,Spetsnaz,Rosgvardia,Chechens etc. are considered as "Russia's elite troops" and yet they performed soo poorly,wouldn't imagine the rest. Sheer incompetence and corruption gets you this result.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508099329533353996


----------



## jhungary

Russian tank regiment commander killed himself ‘after finding out 90% of tanks held in reserve were unusable because parts had been stolen’, claims Ukrainian intelligence​








Ukraine claims Russian commander killed himself over tank conditions


In an update from Kyiv's MoD, the country said that the commander within the '4th tank division of the Russian Federation' shot himself due to the dire condition of the unit's tanks held in reserve.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## bobo6661



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## Hassan Al-Somal

bobo6661 said:


> View attachment 827914



What you showed is just a bedtime story....... Now, you can see 👇how the Ukrainian army got hundreds of their forces eliminated near Maryinskaya.



Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508059256569925637

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## Wood

srshkmr said:


> I think that most of the officers/generals killed is mainly because of captured comms from Russian troops


At least one general was killed because he used a stolen Ukrainian SIM card for field communication. 🤦‍♂️

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508058211508707334


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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> What you showed is just a bedtime story....... Now, you can see 👇how the Ukrainian army got hundreds of their forces eliminated near Maryinskaya.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508059256569925637



Any proofs 600 soldiers were killed ? Which proofs are there they are Ukrainians ?

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## Dalit

Dalit said:


> He is a troll and falseflagger. That is the deal.


@dbc stop handing me negative ratings. You claim to be a proponent of free speech. Develop some tolerance for other opinions.

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## deX

jhungary said:


> The truth (or untruth) of Neo Nazism in Russian Perspective summed up pretty well by BBC


Just opinions on selective points without context/opposing party's p.o.v.
There are Blacks/Muslims/etc who are supporter of Trump.
The Comedian isn't calling the shots anyway...


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508123308520353796

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## Georg

Vergennes said:


> Any proofs 600 soldiers were killed ? Which proofs are there they are Ukrainians ?



you know every claim from the russian side is correct...they totaly controll the media to prefent fake news spreading  all i see are some plastic bags maybee with deads under it... dead russian dead civilian dead ukraine, how knows but they come from a trustworthy brainwashed source

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508009547708964865

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508009556227641348

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508009560161796097


----------



## jhungary

deX said:


> Just opinions on selective points without context/opposing party's p.o.v.
> There are Blacks/Muslims/etc who are supporter of Trump.
> The Comedian isn't calling the shots anyway...


Have you actually watched the segment??

It said the entire country under Zelenskyy has cracking down on Neo Nazism, This is not about Trump being support by you know who, this is about Neo Nazism in Ukraine have gone down to all time low by the time Zelenskyy took power. 

And people are using Azov as a propaganda which have no ties to Neo Nazism anymore. 

As I said in other post, if you want to talk about Neo Nazism in Ukraine, you talk about OUN, not Azov, the context is, OUN, not Azov, is the largest organisation and most historically connected to both Neo Nazism and actual Nazism, seeing OUN was the actual collaborator toward the actual Nazi regime back in WW2. But then of course nobody is going to talk about OUN because they were oppressed by Zelenskyy and its government, it does not suit the propaganda narrative of the Russian..

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## dbc

Dalit said:


> @dbc stop handing me negative ratings. You claim to be a proponent of free speech. Develop some tolerance for other opinions.



Please stay on topic, you got a negative rating for off-topic discussion about a forum member which is against forum rules.

If you have a problem with a member talk to forum management instead please.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508132691383881730

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## Paul2

A1Kaid said:


> I told you to check your basic facts but obviously that was too much to ask lay folks like you. You claimed Russia spends at least half of its $60bn military budget on supporting its nuclear forces, the fact is nobody publicly knows the actual amount they spend as that is classified information. The only info we have is what Russia chooses to publish and that is they *spend roughly 17% of their defense budget on their nuclear program as of 2016*. The true amount is never disclosed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How much does Russia spend on nuclear weapons? | SIPRI
> 
> 
> This topical backgrounder begins with an overview of Russia’s large-scale nuclear modernization programme, which started after the adoption of its state armament programme for 2011–20. It then outlines Russia’s nuclear institutions and how the expenditure is managed within Russia’s federal...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sipri.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kid you're not even in a position to insult, you're embarrassing yourself thinking any country spends half of its budget on their nuclear program let alone pretending you know how much Russia actually spends. Now either post facts or shut up and admit you're wrong. Too many people posting bs data and claims here without any fact checking.
> 
> 
> 
> Gambit, do you know what a subset of a war means? Technically special military operations != war. If US conducts a military operation in Somalia or another country, it doesn't mean it's technically a war. There is armed conflict going on at LoC between Pakistan and India right now albeit very low intensity compared to this but armed conflict alone doesn't equal war. There is a threshold.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, this of course is an armed conflict but for Russia its a military op not a full fledged war, it's a war for Ukraine however.



Maintaining a nuclear triad is a whole way different from few hundred warheads on individual TBMs, and cruise missiles.

The cost of a single missile submarine + its upkeep is probably already more than cost of all deployed delivery vehicles Pakistan has combined.


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## Vergennes

Georg said:


> you know every claim from the russian side is correct...they totaly controll the media to prefent fake news spreading  all i see are some plastic bags maybee with deads under it... dead russian dead civilian dead ukraine, how knows but they come from a trustworthy brainwashed source



Ukraine only spreads BS but somehow everything coming from Russia is true and verified. BTW that dude spriter has been known to spread BS since the Syrian civil war,only sensasionalist tweets which only low IQs would swallow.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508063043997114372

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## Georg

and the history circle close... today I read that Germany send MG-3 to Ukraine Army... the modern version of Hitlers MG-42 Buzzsaw... again cutting down Russian soldiers in mass

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## kingQamaR

The Javelin and NLAW ant-itank weapons were specifically designed to penetrate the armour of Russia's T-90 tanks, which they do with ease. The T-72s and T-64s are simply mobile coffins in a modern war scenario, if I was a Russian soldier in one, I would jump out at the first opportunity too. I’m guessing why there Russian armour abounded everywhere

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## Georg

kingQamaR said:


> The Javelin and NLAW ant-itank weapons were specifically designed to penetrate the armour of Russia's T-90 tanks, which they do with ease. The T-72s and T-64s are simply mobile coffins in a modern war scenario, if I was a Russian soldier in one, I would jump out at the first opportunity too. I’m guessing why there Russian armour abounded everywhere


luckly they run out of fuel befor reaching combat

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## bobo6661

sur said:


> There is Arabic text all around the screen.


Now go read the tweet again or its hard to understand ? Its so easy to spot russian trolls  they even have problems with reading.

tip for you

"Initially, these Skif ATGMs were intended to export to the *Middle East*, but instead were given to the Ukrainian troops after the war began."


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## F-22Raptor

sur said:


> * Alert - Probable Propaganda*​
> 
> *There is Arabic text all around the screen.*
> Can Ukrainians read Arabic?
> 
> View attachment 827974
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just like your Rambo was blatantly lying about a destroyed Ukrainian Tank as if it was Russian:
> And on getting exposed, he admitted:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507449859112116226
> View attachment 827977




Vasquez is absolutely there destroying Russian armor. And he said that sarcastically to that guy. I've been following his Twitter feed. He's 100% legit.


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## deX

jhungary said:


> Have you actually watched the segment??
> 
> It said the entire country under Zelenskyy has cracking down on Neo Nazism, This is not about Trump being support by you know who, this is about Neo Nazism in Ukraine have gone down to all time low by the time Zelenskyy took power.
> 
> And people are using Azov as a propaganda which have no ties to Neo Nazism anymore.
> 
> As I said in other post, if you want to talk about Neo Nazism in Ukraine, you talk about OUN, not Azov, the context is, OUN, not Azov, is the largest organisation and most historically connected to both Neo Nazism and actual Nazism, seeing OUN was the actual collaborator toward the actual Nazi regime back in WW2. But then of course nobody is going to talk about OUN because they were oppressed by Zelenskyy and its government, it does not suit the propaganda narrative of the Russian..



"Looking at past to create motivation at the present", all powers make there motivation from the past. US wont be medling in Ukrain if that won't be the case.

- thrz no neo-nazi in Ukraine because Zelensky is Jewish is like saying thrz no racism in US bcz obama is african... 
- No ties to Neo Nazism *"anymore"*... 

I mean these aren't the arguments that sum up the debate... BBC (and every other outlet) behaves in such a way that they can mold everything at thr will/agenda...

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## jamal18

Report from Mariupol.






'Mariupol virtually destroyed.'

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## jhungary

deX said:


> "Looking at past to create motivation at the present", all powers make there motivation from the past. US wont be medling in Ukrain if that won't be the case.
> 
> - thrz no neo-nazi in Ukraine because Zelensky is Jewish is like saying thrz no racism in US bcz obama is african...
> - No ties to Neo Nazism *"anymore"*...
> 
> I mean these aren't the arguments that sum up the debate... BBC (and every other outlet) behaves in such a way that they can mold everything at thr will/agenda...


Racism is not only targeting black tho, racism is universal and can be used to target anyone, even if you are white. So saying Obama is US president and there are no racism is wrong, but since this is universal, you can say that to just about anyone in charge, be it White, Black, Asian or Native.

On the other hand, the core value of Neo Nazism or White Supremist is to target Jews and other ethnic minority. So you cannot be in a Neo Nazi Organisation and have a Jew in charge, it's like The Vatican decided to announce the next pope would be an Imam....You change the core value of thing, you change the entire thing. If they really do have a Jew in charge of a Neo Nazi organisation, then I don't know what you would call that group but I won't call it Neo Nazi...Same as I would not call an Imam as a Pope.....

And finally, wasn't your "Ukraine Government is Nazi", itself, an "Agenda" to begin with?


----------



## Foinikas

bobo6661 said:


> a troll that like to troll trolls


Indian Polish?



jhungary said:


> On the other hand, the core value of Neo Nazism or White Supremist is to target Jews and other ethnic minority. So you cannot be in a Neo Nazi Organisation and have a Jew in charge, it's like


You'll be surprised then,because they've even accepted awards from Zelensky and positions in the police.

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508023536543318017








"Muh Russia only sends conscripts". Guess those VDV which are supposed to be among Russian elite troops didn't do well.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508139221575475207

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## Wood

Any idea about the $6000 Kamikaze drones from US reaching Ukraine?


----------



## jhungary

A little offtopic, but this is what Jens Stoltentberg do before becoming the Secretary General of NATO






No, he was not a taxi driver, he was Norway PM busking as a cabbie


----------



## jhungary

One of the most complete record of Russian war dead/capture I have seen on OSINT



Мы говорим про потери вооруженных сил РФ в Украине. Eсли вы нашли на сайте своего родственника, то тут есть информация как с ним связаться или забрать тело.



*WARNING* - *DO NOT OPEN THE WEBSITE UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO SEE PHOTO OF COMBAT DEATH.*

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508154897564381184


----------



## jamal18

Dangerous bio-labs in the Ukraine. Watch 12 mins in.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Wood said:


> Any idea about the $6000 Kamikaze drones from US reaching Ukraine?



The new $800M package that includes the Switchblades just started 2-3 days ago, but the Ukrainians will have to be trained how to use those.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508136220135768066
The Ukrainians are receiving 6,000 new AT-4s from the US. Don’t know if this is from that package or not.

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> A little offtopic, but this is what Jens Stoltentberg do before becoming the Secretary General of NATO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, he was not a taxi driver, he was Norway PM busking as a cabbie



PM, not PM, but he had his ankles shaking when he was delivering a speech with Duda (Poland PM.)


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> PM, not PM, but he had his ankles shaking when he was delivering a speech with Duda (Poland PM.)


Personally, I found that Stoltenberg not a very good politician.

Not being Norwegian I cannot tell you what as I were not ever ruled by him, but seeing him failed to united the country after the 2011 attack.......

But then Labour was reinstalled as leading party after defeating the left, mostly because of the mishandling of COVID-19.


----------



## dBSPL

The next round of negotiations between Ukraine and Russia will be held in Turkey on 28-30 March.

Turkey seems to be the official mediator of the peace talks.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508102279353798663

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Any proofs 600 soldiers were killed ? Which proofs are there they are Ukrainians ?



The reporter is embedded with the Russian forces. No other proof is needed. This is a first hand reporting from the field.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507982871167913989


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508132691383881730





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508146144668524550


----------



## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> The new $800M package that includes the Switchblades just started 2-3 days ago, but the Ukrainians will have to be trained how to use those.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508136220135768066
> The Ukrainians are receiving 6,000 new AT-4s from the US. Don’t know if this is from that package or not.


Ahhhhhhhhh............I remember my first AT-4, it come out of a crate, just like what I asked krist Krinkle for.

I can still smell the new plastic smell..........


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508144857512034304


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508023536543318017
> View attachment 827984
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Muh Russia only sends conscripts". Guess those VDV which are supposed to be among Russian elite troops didn't do well.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508140762600513545

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## dbc

Dalit said:


> I have an innocent question for you. How does it feel now that Russia and China are standing up to US and Western hegemony?



Western hegemony is a myth, there is no such thing. China and Russia exert so much more direct influence on nations all over the world ...more influence than the US ever had...The list of countries that have openly defied the US over the last 100 years is long and includes some of our closest allies...France (iraq war)..Pakistan(nukes)..Japan (trade war)..then there is....India (1971), China(1971)..when China dismissed US pleas to mobilize their military against India. 

But I'm not the least bit concerned about Russia or China, I have complete faith that their drunk on power "*dictators for life*".... will eventually screw the pooch so hard it will lead to another implosion..Putin has already taken a giant step towards his own demise by invading Ukraine...I can only hope other "*dictators for life*" are watching and learning some lessons from Putin.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508139221575475207





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508138166456360964

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508170038842478595


----------



## Dalit

dbc said:


> Western hegemony is a myth, there is no such thing. China and Russia exert so much more direct influence on nations all over the world ...more influence than the US ever had...The list of countries that have openly defied the US over the last 100 years is long and includes some of our closest allies...France (iraq war)..Pakistan(nukes)..Japan (trade war)..then there is....India (1971), China(1971)..when China dismissed US pleas to mobilize their military against India.
> 
> But I'm not the least bit concerned about Russia or China, I have complete faith that their drunk on power "*dictators for life*".... will eventually screw the pooch so hard it will lead to another implosion..Putin has already taken a giant step towards his own demise by invading Ukraine...I can only hope other "*dictators for life*" are watching and learning some lessons from Putin.



US focus on China and Russia seems to suggest otherwise. Hasn't the US ditched its fight against so-called Islamic terror for China/Russia containment?

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## Foinikas

F-22Raptor said:


> The new $800M package that includes the Switchblades just started 2-3 days ago, but the Ukrainians will have to be trained how to use those.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508136220135768066
> The Ukrainians are receiving 6,000 new AT-4s from the US. Don’t know if this is from that package or not.


Best unboxing video in a long time

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## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> You guys have been exposed to the bone in this topic. Hypocrites LOL
> 
> I have an innocent question for you. How does it feel now that Russia and China are standing up to US and Western hegemony?




The US has been opposed by many countries over its lifetime. Don’t really care. We see how they all end up. Russia has already lost strategically. Chinas time will come too. The US system, while imperfect, has proven to be the best in the world. It’s why so many immigrate here. It’s why so much innovation and advancement has come from the US. I will take our people over anyones. 

China will face plant into the dirt just as Russia is doing today.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508170038842478595





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508121435537088520


----------



## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> The US has been opposed by many countries over its lifetime. Don’t really care. We see how they all end up. Russia has already lost strategically. Chinas time will come too. The US system, while imperfect, has proven to be the best in the world. It’s why so many immigrate here. It’s why so much innovation and advancement has come from the US. I will take our people over anyones.
> 
> China will face plant into the dirt just as Russia is doing today.



LOL Russian plan to takeover important Ukrainian regions is proceeding according to plan. I don't know what you mean by "Russia has lost strategically".

China is beyond your reach. China is reaping full benefits as they should. The more you try to contain China the farther China gets.

Let's face it, US hegemony is being reduced day by day. You are being challenged in broad daylight and the response is very poor. Perhaps the US is paying dearly for its crimes and sins committed not so long ago. Innocent people's curse really exists.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

🇷🇺🇺🇦 Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

▫️The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue their offensive in the course of the special military operation.

▫️On March 26, high-precision, long-range aviation weapons destroyed a large fuel base near Lvov, which provided fuel for Ukrainian troops in western Ukraine, as well as near Kiev.

▫️In addition, high-precision cruise missiles have destroyed the workshops of Lvov Radio Repair Plant in Lvov city. This enterprise has overhauled and upgraded Tor and S-125 anti-aircraft missile systems, radar stations for Ukrainian Air Force, electronic warfare equipment and sights for tanks.

▫️Also, high-precision sea-based long-range weapons destroyed a warehouse of missiles for S-300 and Buk anti-aircraft missile systems in Plesetskoye, 30 kilometres southwest of Kiev city.

✈️💥Operational-tactical and army aviation hit 67 military assets of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Among them: 2 command posts, 3 field depots with arms and ammunition, 11 strongholds of Ukrainian Armed Forces units and 20 areas of military equipment concentration.

💥Russian air defence means overnight destroyed 18 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles over Novaya Basan, Peski, Borispol, Shchors, Vishnevoe, Kryukovka and Petrovskiy. 

💥In total, 289 unmanned aerial vehicles, 1,656 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 169 multiple launch rocket systems, 684 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,503 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.

#Russia #Ukraine #Briefing 
@mod_russia_en

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The reporter is embedded with the Russian forces. No other proof is needed. This is a first hand reporting from the field.



Show bodies of the 600 and proof they are Ukrainians otherwise it's just BS.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Show bodies of the 600 and proof they are Ukrainians otherwise it's just BS.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508175536694173697

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## Dalit

Vergennes said:


> Show bodies of the 600 and proof they are Ukrainians otherwise it's just BS.



Wow. Just incredible. It is some sight to see you put in the extra hours for Ukraine. You really are feeling the pain it seems.

I remember your words very vividly. It is plain business you once said emotionless to a question related to fuelling a war between India and Pakistan. Looks like the tables have turned very badly here. Let's just say, it is plain business for Russia too. Nothing personal. It is all about denazification and gaining control over certain areas.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508169527976247307

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## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> LOL Russian plan to takeover important Ukrainian regions is proceeding according to plan. I don't know what you mean by "Russia has lost strategically".
> 
> China is beyond your reach. China is reaping full benefits as they should. The more you try to contain China the farther China gets.
> 
> Let's face it, US hegemony is being reduced day by day. You are being challanged in broad daylight and the response is very poor. Perhaps the US is paying dearly for its crimes and sins committed not so long ago. Innocent people's curse really exists.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507801526500212738
I suggest this thread. Russia has already lost geopolitically and strategically. The Pentagon now labels Russia an “acute problem” and no longer a long term threat. Nuff said. 


China can’t even project power out of the first island chain. They have 4x the US population and are still behind economically and still aren’t as productive as the average American. 

Per Peking Uni, China is behind the US in most fields, equal in a few, and ahead in very few. 

China is a strong competitor but they still can’t match US comprehensive power.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508169527976247307





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508173197690167307


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507801526500212738
> I suggest this thread. Russia has already lost geopolitically and strategically. The Pentagon now labels Russia an “acute problem” and no longer a long term threat. Nuff said.
> 
> 
> China can’t even project power out of the first island chain. They have 4x the US population and are still behind economically and still aren’t as productive as the average American.
> 
> Per Peking Uni, China is behind the US in most fields, equal in a few, and ahead in very few.
> 
> China is a strong competitor but they still can’t match US comprehensive power.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508172847843360775

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## dbc

Dalit said:


> US focus on China and Russia seems to suggest otherwise. Hasn't the US ditched its fight against so-called Islamic terror for China/Russia containment?



when did the US not focus and Russia and China? Do us all a favor and read a good history book...

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## Dalit

Afghan Refugees in U.K. Are Still in Limbo as Ukrainians Arrive​Some 12,000 Afghans who fled to Britain have been living in hotels for months awaiting permanent housing. This has raised questions about the country’s ability to take in many more escaping Ukraine.









Afghan Refugees in U.K. Are Still in Limbo as Ukrainians Arrive


Some 12,000 Afghans who fled to Britain have been living in hotels for months awaiting permanent housing. This has raised questions about the country’s ability to take in many more escaping Ukraine.




www.nytimes.com





I can assure you guys the sentiment is the same all across European cities. Europe is being inundated with refugees.


----------



## jamal18

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508169527976247307


I believe that Chernihiv is now surrounded, according to its mayor.

While many are criticising Russia's failure to take Kiev, few seem to follow Russian military's stated aims. Priority is the destruction of the Ukrainian forces in the east, the Kiev operation is simply to tie down Ukrainian forces.

When the Donbass area is cleared of Ukrainian forces, they will evaluate their priorities.

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508173197690167307



Russian missile precision is trash yet they have the audacity to post it  @F-22Raptor

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507801526500212738
> I suggest this thread. Russia has already lost geopolitically and strategically. The Pentagon now labels Russia an “acute problem” and no longer a long term threat. Nuff said.
> 
> 
> China can’t even project power out of the first island chain. They have 4x the US population and are still behind economically and still aren’t as productive as the average American.
> 
> Per Peking Uni, China is behind the US in most fields, equal in a few, and ahead in very few.
> 
> China is a strong competitor but they still can’t match US comprehensive power.


America's real Trump card is the alliance that it has built with the developed world. Almost every country with money and market is with the US Geo politically. Until recently, the middle eastern countries were also allied with US.

Trump sabotaged this as best as he could, but Putin has rectified the problem for a bit. Democrats however have themselves to blame for deterioration in ties with the Gulf though.

At the end of the day, US is a super power as long as the wealthy countries stand with it politically. Harsh reality is that the poor countries do not have much of a say in this.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Russian missile precision is trash yet they have the audacity to post it  @F-22Raptor



Well, they plummeted an entire country and brought it to its knees. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508178106749706251

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## Dalit

Vergennes said:


> Russian missile precision is trash yet they have the audacity to post it  @F-22Raptor



Russian missile precision is trash? LOL This comment cannot be taken seriously. If there is something the Russians are really good at it is building excellent missiles.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

sur said:


> German states outlaw display of Russia’s ‘Z’ war symbol​Wonder when will they outlaw "O" & "V"?
> Then outlaw White, Red, and Blue colours too.
> If Rus still doesn't stop, then outlaw anything shaped rectangular because Rusi flag is rectangular.
> 
> Germany:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508138861272211466


Remember when they claimed China banned the letter N?









Why China banned the letter 'N' | CNN


Censorship went into overdrive to block online protests after the announcement of the possibility that presidential term limits would be dropped.




www.cnn.com





Everything they accuse China of doing, they do themselves.

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## Tamerlane

Dalit said:


> Innocent people's curse really exists.



"Fear the curse of the oppressed as there is no screen between his invocation and God,"

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## Hassan Al-Somal

*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508114938295902210*


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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507801526500212738
> I suggest this thread. Russia has already lost geopolitically and strategically. The Pentagon now labels Russia an “acute problem” and no longer a long term threat. Nuff said.
> 
> 
> China can’t even project power out of the first island chain. They have 4x the US population and are still behind economically and still aren’t as productive as the average American.
> 
> Per Peking Uni, China is behind the US in most fields, equal in a few, and ahead in very few.
> 
> China is a strong competitor but they still can’t match US comprehensive power.



Russia won't rest until the objectives are met. You know this too. Russia didn't go this far to retreat or do a half job. Be rest assured. Russia will claim victory. Victory will be in the shape of control over important areas. Anything less and you can call me a liar.

China is beyond your reach. Only a matter of time before Chinese economy overtakes the US. Also in field of tech and otherwise China is making excellent ground. I understand why your officials and leaders are having nightmares about China. They should because what China has achieved in such a short period is nothing short of a miracle. Let's not even discuss about the future.

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## deX

jhungary said:


> And finally, wasn't your "Ukraine Government is Nazi", itself, an "Agenda" to begin with?



Yea....... *"mine"* "Ukraine Government is Nazi" 

Nobody knows here when the agenda began, or by whom...

Anyway, in my opinion, the video is just another propaganda instead of fact check just like others. (where first assumptions are made and then nicely azov is picked up as an example with "not anymore" and forgetting the rest)

Every outlet has the fact check template these days, which they mold it according to there version/agenda... aka half truth aka lies...


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508164453161971713


----------



## Dalit

dbc said:


> when did the US not focus and Russia and China? Do us all a favor and read a good history book...



Yet here you are. Pulling your hair out of your skull.

Do us a favor and get off the high horse.


----------



## WotTen

jhungary said:


> 1000 in 4 weeks....That's actually a lot. That is more than the American and its allies did to Afghanistan
> 
> NGO backed by UNHCR put the civilian killed during the whole 20 years at 180,000 at the low end, 210,000 at the high end, bear in mind this figure is the entire war and death are counted not just from the Allied side. If we break down the number, that is roughly 200 a week that is being killed at high end.
> 
> The same NGO and UN estimate 1100 civilian killed in the first 4 weeks, which is closer to 300 a week (270 give or take) that is a lot in just 4 weeks......



Yeah, but Putin is not targeting Ukraine's electricity grid or telecom infrastructure. Aside from freezing the population in the tough winter, turning off electricity would also shut down clean water and sewage systems across the country, creating major health hazards.

The incompetence of the military campaign aside, these are deliberate kid gloves that Putin is using to spare civilians as much as possible.

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## Tamerlane

The following webpage has a pretty detailed explanation of Russia's strategy. It's too long to post here, but those who're interested can read it. They're concentrating on Donbass because that's where the major part of Ukrainian forces are located.

*One month into the Russian special operation in the Ukraine*





__





One month into the Russian special operation in the Ukraine | The Vineyard of the Saker


A bird's eye view of the vineyard




thesaker.is

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## Meengla

Here is a NY Times journalist with a huge following making a connection between wars and profits. He has addressed Iraq and Afghanistan in the video. One day I think there will about the Ukraine-Russia war too...

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508153333349072900

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508177370318090240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508178899594788868

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508169527821053967

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## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> Russia won't rest until the objectives are met. You know this too. Russia didn't go this far to retreat or do a half job. Be rest assured. Russia will claim victory. Victory will be in the shape of control over important areas. Anything less and you can call me a liar.
> 
> China is beyond your reach. Only a matter of time before Chinese economy overtakes the US. Also in field of tech and otherwise China is making excellent ground. I understand why your officials and leaders are having nightmares about China. They should because what China has achieved in such a short period is nothing short of a miracle. Let's not even discuss about the future.




Russia has strategically lost. They have little ability to compete with the US, especially now.


China has 4X the population of the US and still remains $6-7T behind in GDP, and the average American is far more productive than Chinese. The US has the most innovative companies in the world, with the most unicorns as well. Capital flows to the most innovative companies. Over 60 have been created so far this year alone. US financial markets are the deepest and most liquid in the world. 

China will never achieve the total comprehensive power of the United States. 

Back to the topic

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## PakFactor

Georg said:


> according to RT news?
> 
> according to UN 1119 killed civiias...BUT according to UN the real number is much higher, that are only the civilians the UN can confirm... in many areas are no UN inspectors able to count civilian victims. Specialy in the areas with intense figthing



Still much better than other conflicts started by US & Co., and besides there's always collateral damage in war as our great American generals put it.


----------



## Wood

Russian propaganda film about this conflict for Russian kids at school


----------



## sur

Criminals of Ukraine torturing their own civilians:



Spoiler: Woman w Swastika carved on body & killed in a school's building































Spoiler: Pro-Russian Tortured by Ukrainian





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508183826488508416
Another one - extreme warning - do not click






Spoiler: Criminals of Ukraine as per their habits killing their own - probably who were trying to leave





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508183333494300675



Because as per their doctrine, if they think you must fight then you must fight or get killed:




__





Ukraine Blocks Trans Women Refugees: "They Are Men, Must Go Back & Fight" | ZeroHedge


ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




www.zerohedge.com






There're over 2-3 dozen street justice footages available like the one below:
Notice Azov patch. They are inherently animals.


Spoiler: Street Justice of Ukraine





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508197936638930953






Spoiler: Thread on Ukrainian street justice examples





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505582698710061078


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508148045174775810

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## PakFactor

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Remember when they claimed China banned the letter N?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why China banned the letter 'N' | CNN
> 
> 
> Censorship went into overdrive to block online protests after the announcement of the possibility that presidential term limits would be dropped.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything they accuse China of doing, they do themselves.



Russia should put LGBTQ symbol and flag on their vehicles as well so that gets banned. Don't have to see that stupid acronym again.

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## PakFactor

Wood said:


> Russian propaganda film about this conflict for Russian kids at school



While its funny, I wouldn't laugh cause these kids will eventually be breathing down others neck for pay back. We are living in dangerous times with the rise of far right movements in EU/US (elsewhere) and now Russia its a recipe for disaster.

@Wood one thing I will say and I'm 100% in my belief its true, during Cold War how we demonized the USSR we are doing the same to the Russian Federation we should not have escalated the tone to this extent. However, this time the RF has the Chinese that none had before to balance, these two teaming up and possibly rebuilding Russian Forces will pose more of a threat down the road. One thing about this conflict the Russians have saw their shorting comings and knowing them they'll retool and retrain as now they are in a life or death situation. They will also clean house from incompetent officers, and looters.

I'm sure the Chinese gave tactic approval for this conflict and they've created a hot iron on EU border and that to which is nuclear armed.

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## Paul2

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508169527976247307



i think these are regrouped remainings of 1st GTA which retreated back to Russia 10 days ago. They probably got R&R, and are now back.

Otherwise, there is nowhere for new armour to appear in Izyum, and Kupiansk. It could've only sneaked there from Russia itself.

Knowing this sneak in route will be very handy for Ukrainians as well.

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## Wood

In field with drone recon team who guide artillery by using civilian drones. The press guy is so brave


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## FairAndUnbiased

Paul2 said:


> i think these are regrouped remainings of 1st GTA which retreated back to Russia 10 days ago. They probably got R&R, and are now back.
> 
> Otherwise, there is nowhere for new armour to appear in Izyum, and Kupiansk. It could've only sneaked there from Russia itself.
> 
> Knowing this sneak in route will be very handy for Ukrainians as well.


Interesting to spin "encircling Ukrainian forces in the Donbass" as "sneaking".

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## Wood

PakFactor said:


> While its funny, I wouldn't laugh cause these kids will eventually be breathing down others neck for pay back. We are living in dangerous times with the rise of far right movements in EU/US (elsewhere) and now Russia its a recipe for disaster.
> 
> @Wood one thing I will say and I'm 100% in my belief its true, during Cold War how we demonized the USSR we are doing the same to the Russian Federation we should not have escalated the tone to this extent. However, this time the RF has the Chinese that none had before to balance, these two teaming up and possibly rebuilding Russian Forces will pose more of a threat down the road. One thing about this conflict the Russians have saw their shorting comings and knowing them they'll retool and retrain as now they are in a life or death situation. They will also clean house from incompetent officers, and looters.
> 
> I'm sure the Chinese gave tactic approval for this conflict and they've created a hot iron on EU border and that to which is nuclear armed.


The future of the Russia China cooperation will also depend on who eventually succeeds the 70 year old autocratic ruler. Most dictators do not groom successors and Russia is not run by a politburo anymore. Can we say that the eventual replacement for Putin will not try to make peace with the west? We'll have to see how the chips fall.

Meanwhile..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507909763115462663


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## PakFactor

Wood said:


> The future of the Russia China cooperation will also depend on who eventually succeeds the 70 year old autocratic ruler. Most dictators do not groom successors and Russia is not run by a politburo anymore. Can we say that the eventual replacement for Putin will not try to make peace with the west? We'll have to see how the chips fall.
> 
> Meanwhile..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507909763115462663



Russians are to drunk to think this long trust me he's already picked a few to chose between -- a designated survivor of sorts. However the chips fall, the media campaign to demonize Russian's is already done that can't be white washed away and Russian's were the 1st to see it clearly and its here to stay.

As for the flag, yeah stupid millennial crap, not going to buy some random twitty accounts online changing flags, etc., don't put to much thought into it.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508216118095368198


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## WotTen

F-22Raptor said:


> Short range directed energy defense coming to the US Army



It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ZING.

Widespread use of mobile DEW will make 99% of the world's existing military arsenal obsolete.


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## WotTen

PakFactor said:


> As for the flag, yeah stupid millennial crap, not going to buy some random twitty accounts online changing flags, etc., don't put to much thought into it.



This is Marketing 101.

Create an impression that supporting the enemy is for old fogies, and all the cool, young, educated people are on your side.


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## Avicenna

dbc said:


> when did the US not focus and Russia and China? Do us all a favor and read a good history book...











Mattis: US national security focus no longer terrorism


The defence secretary points to "growing threats" from Russia and China.



www.bbc.com













Remarks by Secretary Mattis on the National Defense Strategy


SECRETARY OF DEFENSE JAMES N. MATTIS: Well, good morning, and thank you all for taking time to come and listen to us here. Again, this is a National Defense Strategy, but what it really is, ladies



www.defense.gov





Short memory?


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## F-22Raptor

WotTen said:


> It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ZING.
> 
> Widespread use of mobile DEW will make 99% of the world's existing military arsenal obsolete.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507960118003961856

Really good thread on new US Army air and missile defense capabilities, long range fires, and their organization.








And new Multi Domain Task Forces that will penetrate A2/AD

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## Brainsucker

WotTen said:


> Yeah, but Putin is not targeting Ukraine's electricity grid or telecom infrastructure. Aside from freezing the population in the tough winter, turning off electricity would also shut down clean water and sewage systems across the country, creating major health hazards.
> 
> The incompetence of the military campaign aside, these are deliberate kid gloves that Putin is using to spare civilians as much as possible.


He should do it in day 1, honestly.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508233012051386369

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## PakFactor

WotTen said:


> This is Marketing 101.
> 
> Create an impression that supporting the enemy is for old fogies, and all the cool, young, educated people are on your side.



That’s how they are led to the chopping block first and what remains come back with PTSD which we have to pay for via their medical treatment to not make them go full retard.


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## A1Kaid

Vergennes said:


> That is a load of crap "muh the best Russian army is at home,they aren't using their whole force and most modern equipments,they send conscripts". Their armed forces are trash,simple as it is.
> 
> Those VDV,*Spetsnaz,Rosgvardia*,Chechens etc. are considered as "Russia's elite troops" and yet they performed soo poorly,wouldn't imagine the rest. Sheer incompetence and corruption gets you this result.



Western (US, UK) intel early in the war reported Russia's invading force for Ukraine was mostly made up of junior conscripts, paramilitary, Kadyrov's Chechen troops, and some military regulars.
Source: https://www.thedailybeast.com/russi...ne-invasion-contrary-to-vladimir-putins-claim

*Spetsnaz* being used in this invasion? Now talk about a load of bs, there is absolutely no evidence that Spetsnaz is being used in this invasion. If there is a legit source, post the link here; they were however used in small part in the Crimean invasion of 2014. *Rosgvardia* aren't even conventional military troops they're basically a Praetorian guard to protect Russian government personnel, calling them "Russia's elite troops" shows you really don't know what you're talking about. In fact, If I recall correctly Rosgvardia started out as *riot police* and you think they are elite Russian troops!? 

Russia 900k active duty, using only 140k troops of mix units for a Ukrainian conventional force of 200k + NATO backed and Russia has already occupied 45-50% of Ukraine. The fact you think Russia would invest its best military units and capabilities for a country like Ukraine is ridiculous. You better hope they don't lob some missiles your way with how stupid your "analytical thinking" is.

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## -=virus=-

such cringey muppets, all these people who have changed their DP/avatar to the Ukraine flag... haa

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508251781083668481

Russian forces were crushed at Sumy

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## PakFactor

-=virus=- said:


> such cringey muppets, all these people who have changed their DP/avatar to the Ukraine flag... haa



They amuse me one day their French after Charlie Hebdo without a clue what lead to them being put 6” under and next day their Ukrainians, I wonder what’s next after this. *Note*: Only blonde hair, blue eyes and skin as white as bleach nationals can be chosen. The rest olive skin people don’t count.

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## Paul2

A1Kaid said:


> Russia 900k active duty, using only 140k troops of mix units for a Ukrainian conventional force of 200k + NATO backed and Russia has already occupied 45-50% of Ukraine. The fact you think Russia would invest its best military units and capabilities for a country like Ukraine is ridiculous. You better hope they don't lob some missiles your way with how stupid your "analytical thinking" is.



1st Guards Tank Army was activated, which is unthinkable. It's like Moscow's strategic reserve force, which would've normally guarded Moscow at all times.

Their modernised mechanised units met combat, and were destroyed completely. I repeat, completely brand new, built from scratch units, with nineties+ military hardware only, professional soldiers, and handpicked officers.

A presence of Nona SVK, a rare mortar-gun-howitzer wunderwaffe, and 203mm artillery indicate that division level combat, if not corps level, is taking place in the field.

If the entire corps is active, there is no question they would have some very elite units at their disposal.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508253010534846473

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508256762369093634

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## jhungary

deX said:


> Yea....... *"mine"* "Ukraine Government is Nazi"
> 
> Nobody knows here when the agenda began, or by whom...
> 
> Anyway, in my opinion, the video is just another propaganda instead of fact check just like others. (where first assumptions are made and then nicely azov is picked up as an example with "not anymore" and forgetting the rest)
> 
> Every outlet has the fact check template these days, which they mold it according to there version/agenda... aka half truth aka lies...


Well, as Zelenskyy said "If defending your own country is Nazi, then sure, everyone in Ukraine is Nazi"

I have no intention to sway you or what so ever, after all, *YOU* replied to *MY* post, not the other way around.

On the other hand, it wouldn't really matter what you or what Russian believe, propaganda is for your "as in your own country" consumption, You can say or tell your people how Ukrainian is Nazi or reject any rational idea on it, at the end of the day, saying Ukrainian is Nazi does not mean Ukrainian themselves believe they are actually Nazi, or the general world view, nor it help the Russian invasion in anyway, shape or form, I am pretty sure Ukrainian will not be affected by this, I mean, they will not defend their country slightly just because you call them a Nazi, or they will not just surrender because you call them a Nazi, so, at the end of the day, How Russia label them is, well, how Russian label them, does that change the ground calculus one bit? No.

So, please do go ahead and consider a Jewish government Neo Nazi, I mean I have no comment on this issue beside, of course the irony.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508021506076467205

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## jhungary

WotTen said:


> Yeah, but Putin is not targeting Ukraine's electricity grid or telecom infrastructure. Aside from freezing the population in the tough winter, turning off electricity would also shut down clean water and sewage systems across the country, creating major health hazards.
> 
> The incompetence of the military campaign aside, these are deliberate kid gloves that Putin is using to spare civilians as much as possible.


He can't target electricity grid, Ukrainian depends on Nuclear Power, if you target Ukrainian electricity grid, you will need to do something like this






*You cannot target Nuclear Power Station unless you want a Nuclear Incident.........*

And they did target telecom infrastructure, they bombed TV tower, antenna and so on on the first few day just that it's really not a point now because almost everyone is using social media online (I mean, when is the last time you turn on your TV and tune in the news?), and unless Russia shoot down Elon Musk satellite, there aren't really a way to target Ukrainian Telecom.

And no, the level of invasion and destruction caused by the Russian force, as we can all see, is not "Kid-Gloves" They virtually levelled the entire city of Mariupol and Chernihiv, and the level of destruction in Kharkiv and Kyiv shown that they don't really care about the civilian population.


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## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> He can't target electricity grid, Ukrainian depends on Nuclear Power, if you target Ukrainian electricity grid, you will need to do something like this


Targeting the grid is 100% doable without targeting power plants - hit transmission substations and distribution.



jhungary said:


> And no, the level of invasion and destruction caused by the Russian force, as we can all see, is not "Kid-Gloves" They virtually levelled the entire city of Mariupol and Chernihiv, and the level of destruction in Kharkiv and Kyiv shown that they don't really care about the civilian population.







__





Putin's Bombers Could Devastate Ukraine But He's Holding Back. Here's Why






www.msn.com


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## Oldman1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508011054823055360
Well looks like I was right, they plan to be part of Russia soon.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508265154441629706

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## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Targeting the grid is 100% doable without targeting power plants - hit transmission substations and distribution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin's Bombers Could Devastate Ukraine But He's Holding Back. Here's Why
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com


You can target the substation or the infrastructure, but if you know anything about substation or infrastructure, substation have a redundancy system and infrastructure can be repaired in a few hours. We did the same thing in Iraq, and it probably disrupts their power supply for 6 hours or so before we roll into Baghdad. 

The topic is not whether or not Russia held back, of course they held back, seeing they use only 1/7 of their total force. The topic is about whether or not they target or care about civilian. And they don't, for all the evidence we have seen. It's probably a very big statement for you to tell them you don't care about civilian when you start bombing hospital on purpose.


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## northeast

jhungary said:


> You can target the substation or the infrastructure, but if you know anything about substation or infrastructure, substation have a redundancy system and infrastructure can be repaired in a few hours. We did the same thing in Iraq, and it probably disrupts their power supply for 6 hours or so before we roll into Baghdad.
> 
> The topic is not whether or not Russia held back, of course they held back, seeing they use only 1/7 of their total force. The topic is about whether or not they target or care about civilian. And they don't, for all the evidence we have seen. It's probably a very big statement for you to tell them you don't care about civilian when you start bombing hospital on purpose.


Of course only western civilized countries care about civilian,that is why only a little more than 100000 civilians had died in iraq war.

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## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> You can target the substation or the infrastructure, but if you know anything about substation or infrastructure, substation have a redundancy system and infrastructure can be repaired in a few hours. We did the same thing in Iraq, and it probably disrupts their power supply for 6 hours or so before we roll into Baghdad.
> 
> The topic is not whether or not Russia held back, of course they held back, seeing they use only 1/7 of their total force. The topic is about whether or not they target or care about civilian. And they don't, for all the evidence we have seen. It's probably a very big statement for you to tell them you don't care about civilian when you start bombing hospital on purpose.


lol I know plenty about substations. do you? you go to grid power conferences?

yeah substations have redundancies - for intermittent point failures. a Kalibr hit is not an intermittent or point failure.

you know transmission substations? These aren't easily replaceable. they serve key points in the grid. you want to know more?

you know what happens to turbines when load is taken off, in the case of substations getting hit, even distribution substations?

let's see if you claim to be an electrical engineer too.

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## Oldman1

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508169527976247307


They could try to surround tens of thousands of Ukrainian troops which are the top units and are veterans and also a large area to cross through to flank them. But looking at the map, it tells me this could lead to failure as well.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

🇷🇺 Airborne units marched in the Kiev region
Published footage of overcoming the water barrier, as well as the destruction of the enemy UAV. 
#Минобороны #Россия #Украина


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508262600395698184

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## AZMwi

Vergennes said:


> Show bodies of the 600 and proof they are Ukrainians otherwise it's just BS.


show the bodies of 40000 dead russians first

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508180101640466442


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## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> lol I know plenty about substations. do you? you go to grid power conferences?
> 
> yeah substations have redundancies - for intermittent point failures. a Kalibr hit is not an intermittent or point failure.
> 
> you know transmission substations? These aren't easily replaceable. they serve key points in the grid. you want to know more?
> 
> you know what happens to turbines when load is taken off, in the case of substations getting hit, even distribution substations?
> 
> let's see if you claim to be an electrical engineer too.


Well, what do you want me to say? When yourself said Substation have redundancies.

First of all, how big is a target of a substation? And do you know the CEP of a Kalibr missile? You cannot launch anything with that type of CEP on a small target like a substation which at most would be 100s square meters. And then you are talking about LOS issue, Substation in Suburban city is not a stand alone complex, it is right smack next to the neighbourhood. And you are supposing the missile can "evade" all building and hit the Substation alone?

And then put into consideration how many Substation you need to take down to effectively cut the electricity supplies, I am sure this is a doable military target. For a target that size, you need to ripple fire your missile in order to make sure you have a hit, and in general, a target that size would require 3 to 4 missile just to make sure it was hit, now times it with the substation you need to take out to interrupt the entire city, or even entire country, and tell me if this is doable,

The only tactical way you can do it is by tactical airstrike sorties, Which is what Russian did not have the capability of. Otherwise they would already have Air Superiority.

Yes, I don't know anything about Substation, as I said, we did destroy Iraqi power infrastructure before we move into Baghdad, and it come back up in around 6 hours, that's what I said, I don't know who fixes it or how to fix it, but this is what I know, on the other hand, it is very apparent you don't know anything about Missile or Airstrike, or are you starting to claim you are a Military Expert here?



northeast said:


> Of course only western civilized countries care about civilian,that is why only a little more then 100000 civilians had died in iraq war.


Well, 100000 civilian died in Iraq war which lasted for 15 years.

If you do a little simple maths, you will know that's 128 killed per week, it's 4 weeks of war in Ukraine and it's 1100 civilian casualty caused by Russian, which is 275 on the low end.

So yes, we still need to learn a lot from the Russian as to how to effectively kill civilian.


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## Type59

Video of captured Russian soldiers getting shot in knee is a propaganda victory for Russian high command. Because Russian troops will less likely to surrender, if they expect to be tortured or killed.

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## sur

northeast said:


> Of course* only western civilized countries care about civilian*,that is why only a little more than 100000 civilians had died in iraq war.


And their blue-eyes, European-looking, not-like-Iraqi-looking [this is how Europeans described Ukrainians] ADL-whitewashed, US-sponsored Nazis also care about civilians, so much so that they stuff explosive in toys to blast their own civilians so they could have some footage to show to Blue-Eyed west as if Rusi did it.
[Nothing new though, same instigators made anti-Asad criminals do the chemical attack on children too, just to blame it on Asad. I cried and cried for days when I saw those babies struggling to breath and die in a painful way. I myself watched a short footage released by anti-Asad terrorists just few days before that gas attack, where they demonstrated killing a rat by gas. Just few days later all media was alleging Asad for that incidnce.]

Especially in early days of this conflict, there were many footage of Ukrainian soldiers shooting their own civilians who were leaving the cities.


Stuffed toys images:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508257636889903104
Stuff toys footage:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508279955322544135
This is consistent with Ukrainian's US-taught approach from day-1 of continuously using civilians as shield:








They care so much about their civilians that they non-stop torture a minority of Roma gypsies:
Many footage we see of Ukrainians torturing people taped to poles, are of Roma gypsies.








Attacked and abandoned: Ukraine’s forgotten Roma


In a country which suffered terribly at the hands of the Nazis during World War II, pogroms against an ethnic minority have somehow become commonplace.




www.aljazeera.com









Above tweet also mention those Ukrainians used drugs etc.
Well when Biden's son Hunter who mediated the financing of Ukrainian criminals himself was a druggie then what to expect;



Spoiler: Naked Hunter Biden scratching his junk & his drugs - & their sponsored Zelensky & a thing they all stuck in each other





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507107542463401984
(src)






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507613810005270529




Biden evading question about his son:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498773255762681860



Axis, the epicenter, the primary source, primary conspirer, primary instigator, at the core of all these evils that world is facing in recent past is:
[it's given that it refers to the power circles who actually control the policies, not the general public which have many who expose their govt's criminal behavior]


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498423996869582849
*Disclaimer*: above tweet has hashtags which does not rep my pov. I say what IK says, we will not take any sides in this conflict but will continue to try to expose the conspirators/instigators.

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## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> Well, what do you want me to say? When yourself said Substation have redundancies.
> 
> First of all, how big is a target of a substation? And do you know the CEP of a Kalibr missile? You cannot launch anything with that type of CEP on a small target like a substation which at most would be 100s square meters. And then you are talking about LOS issue, Substation in Suburban city is not a stand alone complex, it is right smack next to the neighbourhood. And you are supposing the missile can "evade" all building and hit the Substation alone?
> 
> And then put into consideration how many Substation you need to take down to effectively cut the electricity supplies, I am sure this is a doable military target. For a target that size, you need to ripple fire your missile in order to make sure you have a hit, and in general, a target that size would require 3 to 4 missile just to make sure it was hit, now times it with the substation you need to take out to interrupt the entire city, or even entire country, and tell me if this is doable,


CEP of Kalibr: 3 m

Proof of Kalibr hitting pinpoint targets: it destroyed a single barracks in Lviv which is much smaller than a substation.






The most important substations - transmission substations - aren't located in suburbs. Here's what a transmission substation looks like, note how its in the middle of nowhere. There's not many of these.






There's also only 1 step up substation per power plant. It is located a small distance away from the main power plant. Without it, electricity generated cannot be transmitted. Here's what one looks like, it's the one for Hoover Dam.






Also note it's in the middle of nowhere.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508280334386966535


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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508215656079978501

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## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> CEP of Kalibr: 3 m
> 
> Proof of Kalibr hitting pinpoint targets: it destroyed a single barracks in Lviv which is much smaller than a substation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The most important substations - transmission substations - aren't located in suburbs. Here's what a transmission substation looks like, note how its in the middle of nowhere. There's not many of these.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's also only 1 step up substation per power plant. It is located a small distance away from the main power plant. Without it, electricity generated cannot be transmitted. Here's what one looks like, it's the one for Hoover Dam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also note it's in the middle of nowhere.


Dude, do you know how many missile fired at the barrack in Lviv : 4



https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/hello-to-biden-russia-strikes-ukraines-safe-haven-city-lviv/news-story/cafefbf2e1bc31d831c43524c9c08c16



And yes, it is smaller than a single substation, so you would expect more missile is needed to completely destroy the target that is bigger than that Barrack. Now you are talking about 1 barrack, but how many substation is in Lviv? Care to venture a guess?

3 Meters CEP does not mean you can hit anything within that 3 meters, 3 meters CEP means you have a theoretically 3 meters error of probability, CEP means half of the missile would land within 3 meters of each other, and the other half outside, because of the arc and tangent, the further away the target it, it multiple the error distant. It's like a tank gun, if a target is 500 meters away, and my CEP is 1 meters, let's say the shot felt 10 meters behind. If that target is 1500 meters away, and if my CEP is 1 meter, then the distant I missed is not 10 meters but 30 meters. And in this case, for a Kalibr missile, it will not be 30 meters, but 90 meters. That is why one of those missile ended up 5 miles away as reported to the barrack attack

And finally, sure, some substation is standalone in the country side, but if you are talking about inside a big city like Kyiv or Lviv, it would not be most of the case, in side a city center, you would expect to have majority of those substation that are going to be in the local area.

Let's say even if you can target all the substation within a certain area and disable the power grid, the amount of resource you are going to spend on is going to be huge, and for what? To stop electricity supplying in one city? You may as well use your missile or bomb on other target that would make a difference.

That's why nobody in any military will attack power grid infrastructure to interrupt power supply, for a few hours yes, say if you want a few hours of darkness to take the town, but not as a continue arrangement. We don't do it in the State even we have better Air Force and better missile. I mean, sure, you can go waste 300-400 missile on 50 or so substation that wouldn't change anything in the battlefield.

You either bomb their power plant, which is the most efficient way to do, or you don't do it at all and move on.


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## MajesticPug

jhungary said:


> Well, 100000 civilian died in Iraq war which lasted for 15 years.



Multiply your figure by 7 or 8. Stop your lies to advance your kiss-American-*** agenda.

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## jhungary

MajesticPug said:


> Multiply your figure by 7 or 8. Stop your lies to advance your kiss-American-*** agenda.


Same can be said to the Civilian killed in Ukraine.


----------



## MajesticPug

jhungary said:


> Same can be said to the Civilian killed in Ukraine.



It's still in hot war, so how did you come up with any figures? Imagine like the Actor does? Uh huh, we all know...


----------



## MajesticPug

jhungary said:


> And you are just stupid, I am sorry, but I have no other word for you.
> 
> People died then people die, it didn't matter if the war is still hot, people ALREADY died has already gone, those weren't a number only after the war end. People don't just "Officially" died after the war ends and a figure can be complied.
> 
> I mean, exactly how stupid were you?



It's not a computer game. Chaos, bodies in rubles, people ran away from the fightings... I should ask you how stupid you are to even state a figure of civilian losses. Are you 13 years old?


----------



## jhungary

MajesticPug said:


> It's not a computer game. Chaos, bodies in rubles, people ran away from the fightings... I should ask you how stupid you are to even state a figure of civilian losses. Are you 13 years old?


Oh I don't know, Recovered Bodies? Funeral? Hospital Admission Record?

Dude, don't ask other if they are 13 when you post such a question as if you are younger than 13.....


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> Dude, do you know how many missile fired at the barrack in Lviv : 4
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/hello-to-biden-russia-strikes-ukraines-safe-haven-city-lviv/news-story/cafefbf2e1bc31d831c43524c9c08c16
> 
> 
> 
> And yes, it is smaller than a single substation, so you would expect more missile is needed to completely destroy the target that is bigger than that Barrack. Now you are talking about 1 barrack, but how many substation is in Lviv? Care to venture a guess?
> 
> 3 Meters CEP does not mean you can hit anything within that 3 meters, 3 meters CEP means you have a theoretically 3 meters error of probability, CEP means half of the missile would land within 3 meters of each other, and the other half outside, because of the arc and tangent, the further away the target it, it multiple the error distant. It's like a tank gun, if a target is 500 meters away, and my CEP is 1 meters, let's say the shot felt 10 meters behind. If that target is 1500 meters away, and if my CEP is 1 meter, then the distant I missed is not 10 meters but 30 meters. And in this case, for a Kalibr missile, it will not be 30 meters, but 90 meters. That is why one of those missile ended up 5 miles away as reported to the barrack attack
> 
> And finally, sure, some substation is standalone in the country side, but if you are talking about inside a big city like Kyiv or Lviv, it would not be most of the case, in side a city center, you would expect to have majority of those substation that are going to be in the local area.
> 
> Let's say even if you can target all the substation within a certain area and disable the power grid, the amount of resource you are going to spend on is going to be huge, and for what? To stop electricity supplying in one city? You may as well use your missile or bomb on other target that would make a difference.
> 
> That's why nobody in any military will attack power grid infrastructure to interrupt power supply, for a few hours yes, say if you want a few hours of darkness to take the town, but not as a continue arrangement. We don't do it in the State even we have better Air Force and better missile. I mean, sure, you can go waste 300-400 missile on 50 or so substation that wouldn't change anything in the battlefield.
> 
> You either bomb their power plant, which is the most efficient way to do, or you don't do it at all and move on.


That's a lot of typing to say "I don't understand grid infrastructure at all because I'm not a subject matter expert in electrical power". 

Like I said, educate yourself on how grid level transmission works.

Not to mention the fact that Russian forces physically occupy many power plants.



jhungary said:


> Same can be said to the Civilian killed in Ukraine.


Didn't you say bombing hospitals is a war crime?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504536881912074241

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## Hassan Al-Somal

MoD Russia

🗓 Top News Today

▫️The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue their offensive in the course of the special military operation.

💥 *High-precision, long-range aviation weapons destroyed a large fuel base near Lvov, which provided fuel for Ukrainian troops in western Ukraine, as well as near Kiev. High-precision cruise missiles have destroyed the workshops of Lvov Radio Repair Plant in Lvov city. Also, high-precision sea-based long-range weapons destroyed a warehouse of missiles for S-300 and Buk anti-aircraft missile systems in Plesetskoye.*

🚌 Russian servicemen organized a safe route for about 90 citizens of Russia, Moldova and Ukraine to move them from Kherson region.

📹 The Russian Ministry of Defence has published footage of destruction of the 2S-7 Pion high-power self-propelled artillery system by high-precision missile weapons, the combat work of Russian Armed Forces units and footage of humanitarian aid delivery to Ukrainian cities.

🏥 Russian servicemen provided medical assistance to residents of Kiev region who were injured after shelling by units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine
@mod_russia_en

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508281818214191107

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## northeast

Western media daily brainwashing propaganda war is getting more ridiculous day by day. That is the reason their people getting more and more arrogant and st*pid these days.

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## Clutch

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508148045174775810

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508013447555997696


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508294535063150596

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508307680892694530

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## MajesticPug

....

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Show bodies of the 600 and proof they are Ukrainians otherwise it's just BS.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508317647083286530

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507913790267936768

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## Clutch

jhungary said:


> One of the most complete record of Russian war dead/capture I have seen on OSINT
> 
> 
> 
> Мы говорим про потери вооруженных сил РФ в Украине. Eсли вы нашли на сайте своего родственника, то тут есть информация как с ним связаться или забрать тело.
> 
> 
> 
> *WARNING* - *DO NOT OPEN THE WEBSITE UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO SEE PHOTO OF COMBAT DEATH.*



What a horror war is not seen by keyboard warriors and old corrupt men who send the young to die in useless sanctioned murder.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Missile attack on an oil depot in the Zhytomyr region


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508320119986008069
*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508275981693472771*


----------



## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> That's a lot of typing to say "I don't understand grid infrastructure at all because I'm not a subject matter expert in electrical power".
> 
> Like I said, educate yourself on how grid level transmission works.
> 
> Not to mention the fact that Russian forces physically occupy many power plants.
> 
> 
> Didn't you say bombing hospitals is a war crime?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504536881912074241


Dude, i don't need to become an electrical engineer to make decision on bombing a Electrical Substation.

Even if I concede you are the expert here, your expertise only limited on how electricity grid works. and how to fix them.

I will just ask you 2 questions.

1.) Can a bombed out electrical substation be fixed?
2.) How long does it take to fix it?

Even if what you said is doable, you are talking about devoting hundred if not thousand of cruise missile to take out a power grid of a city. Even if you can do that, then what? Does that mean Ukrainian cannot fight under darkness? Or They cant fix what you broke?

That decision would have been unsounded, because instead of devoting hundreds if not thousand of missile to destroy a powergrid for a city, you can use those same asset to destroy Anti-Tank Position or Anti-Air Position or any strategic position other than giving a city of 2 millions "Some" Inconvenience.

It will only be a strategic advantage if you can take out their power grid and *THEY STAYED DOWN*, which mean you will need to spend Hundred or Thousand of missile once every few days in a given period of time to keep them grid suppressed. Ask yourself this, do you think you have more missile to keep them down in a period of time, like every time they fix it, you send missile to bomb it?

Dude, you don't even know how undoable this is, and that is why nobody bother to do that. You either bomb their power plant or move on from the topic.

*Russia physically occupy 2 Power Plants, 1 of them (Chernobyl) is disused.*

As for bombing Hospital being warcrime, have I said anything about Warcrime? I said you don't bomb Hospital if you had not intent to target Civilian, that goes with they don't care about Civilian.

Bombing Hospital may or may not be a War Crime per se. If you have a reason to bomb it, like they are being used as a Military Storage or Staging Point, you are allowed to bomb it, but doing so does not mean you care about the civilian population, because you are taking out an important civilian infrastructure. Even if that is not a war crime


----------



## AZMwi

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508280334386966535


your desperation is real lol

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## Dustom9

He doesn't know about Step-up stations and Step down/distribution substations.

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## deX

jhungary said:


> Well, as Zelenskyy said "If defending your own country is Nazi, then sure, everyone in Ukraine is Nazi"
> 
> I have no intention to sway you or what so ever, after all, *YOU* replied to *MY* post, not the other way around.
> 
> On the other hand, it wouldn't really matter what you or what Russian believe, propaganda is for your "as in your own country" consumption, You can say or tell your people how Ukrainian is Nazi or reject any rational idea on it, at the end of the day, saying Ukrainian is Nazi does not mean Ukrainian themselves believe they are actually Nazi, or the general world view, nor it help the Russian invasion in anyway, shape or form, I am pretty sure Ukrainian will not be affected by this, I mean, they will not defend their country slightly just because you call them a Nazi, or they will not just surrender because you call them a Nazi, so, at the end of the day, How Russia label them is, well, how Russian label them, does that change the ground calculus one bit? No.
> 
> So, please do go ahead and consider a Jewish government Neo Nazi, I mean I have no comment on this issue beside, of course the irony.


I just *commented* on one of the propaganda video (or post). It was unfortunate that you were the carrier. 

If "jewish govt" can't become pro nazi (or act like so in an "other" state), then maybe ppl need learn about human behaviour before blaming others...


----------



## Soldier35

The Russian army used new weapons for the first time in Ukraine, the work of the remote mining engineering system "Agriculture" was filmed near Kharkov. The video shows the moment of remote installation of minefields. The operation of this installation is similar to the work of the Grad MLRS. The difference is that instead of the warhead of a 122 mm rocket, they carry cassettes with mines. After the installation of mines, this territory is plotted on an electronic map, there is no need to carry out mine clearance manually, mines can be remotely deactivated.






Movement of a column of Russian military equipment of airborne units to the area of combat missions in the Kiev region

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## Paul2

Paul2 said:


> 1st Guards Tank Army was activated, which is unthinkable. It's like Moscow's strategic reserve force, which would've normally guarded Moscow at all times.
> 
> Their modernised mechanised units met combat, and were destroyed completely. I repeat, completely brand new, built from scratch units, with nineties+ military hardware only, professional soldiers, and handpicked officers.
> 
> A presence of Nona SVK, a rare mortar-gun-howitzer wunderwaffe, and 203mm artillery indicate that divilion level combat, if not corps level, is taking place in the field.
> 
> If the entire corps is active, there is no question they would have some very elite units at their disposal.



I just want to put accent here. We are seeing entire Corps level combat for the first time since WW2 in between two relatively modern militaries.

It takes an ennormous effort to move an army division in the field, rather than just station it in a fixed location, and then dispatch its constituent offensive elements. And here now, entire corps are set in motion: corps HQs are on the move, their strategic assets, corps level support detachments, corps level artillery units, and command, and control infrastructure is on the move too.

And we also know that there are already big holes punched in the structure of these corps, like loss of strategic reserves, and support forces dispatched to frontlines. So now, they are losing that corps element, and turning more into a blob of few mechanised, and armour divisions.

I bet, the general staff on both sides of the conflict never ever seen corps combat anywhere outside of (very old) military textbooks.

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## Vergennes

A1Kaid said:


> Western (US, UK) intel early in the war reported Russia's invading force for Ukraine was mostly made up of junior conscripts, paramilitary, Kadyrov's Chechen troops, and some military regulars.
> Source: https://www.thedailybeast.com/russi...ne-invasion-contrary-to-vladimir-putins-claim
> 
> *Spetsnaz* being used in this invasion? Now talk about a load of bs, there is absolutely no evidence that Spetsnaz is being used in this invasion. If there is a legit source, post the link here; they were however used in small part in the Crimean invasion of 2014. *Rosgvardia* aren't even conventional military troops they're basically a Praetorian guard to protect Russian government personnel, calling them "Russia's elite troops" shows you really don't know what you're talking about. In fact, If I recall correctly Rosgvardia started out as *riot police* and you think they are elite Russian troops!?
> 
> Russia 900k active duty, using only 140k troops of mix units for a Ukrainian conventional force of 200k + NATO backed and Russia has already occupied 45-50% of Ukraine. The fact you think Russia would invest its best military units and capabilities for a country like Ukraine is ridiculous. You better hope they don't lob some missiles your way with how stupid your "analytical thinking" is.



Russians themselves admitted majority of the soldiers sent to Ukraine were mostly made up of contract soldiers,"some conscripts" ended up in Ukraine but they recalled them back home and are investigating. Are you calling russian liars ? 

Kadyrov's lapdogs are considered as "elite troops" because Russians consider them as well equipped,well trained and "experts in urban warfare" the reason they are using them in places like Mariupol.

You do know that "Spetsnaz" is a vast generic term to designate Russian special forces ? 

Rosgvardia (who themselves have Spetsnaz units) were sent into the frontlines when they are supposed to be an occupation force supposed to supress the local civilian pop,I guess you missed that long convoy that was destroyed in Kharkiv few weeks ago or in Kherson ? (Talk about incompetence)

"Russia doesn't send its best troops". That the most BS argument I've ever seen. Is that your only argument to justify Russia's pathetic performance in Ukraine ? Are you considering the 1st guards tank army and the 4th guards tank divisionk,the 31st guards air assault brigade as "not the best Russia has" ? All those VDV who died pathetically in places like Irpen aren't Russia's best ?

You're supposed to be a "think tank" how cannot you see Russia's blatant incompetence and corruption which led to its poor performance in Ukraine ? No combined arms operations,severe lack of communication between different units and services (use of non secure communications),poor battle management,poor logistics.... So much that they have to send generals on frontlines)

And don't tell me "muh they don't use full force they care about civilians". My @ss.

Of course you seem to be one who fell for Kremlin's myth around the Russian armed forces but turns out their armed forces are trash,of course it would be hard for you to admit it.

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## northeast

Vergennes said:


> Russians themselves admitted majority of the soldiers sent to Ukraine were mostly made up of contract soldiers,"some conscripts" ended up in Ukraine but they recalled them back home and are investigating. Are you calling russian liars ?
> 
> Kadyrov's lapdogs are considered as "elite troops" because Russians consider them as well equipped,well trained and "experts in urban warfare" the reason they are using them in places like Mariupol.
> 
> You do know that "Spetsnaz" is a vast generic term to designate Russian special forces ?
> 
> Rosgvardia (who themselves have Spetsnaz units) were sent into the frontlines when they are supposed to be an occupation force supposed to supress the local civilian pop,I guess you missed that long convoy that was destroyed in Kharkiv few weeks ago or in Kherson ? (Talk about incompetence)
> 
> "Russia doesn't send its best troops". That the most BS argument I've ever seen. Is that your only argument to justify Russia's pathetic performance in Ukraine ? Are you considering the 1st guards tank army and the 4th guards tank divisionk,the 31st guards air assault brigade as "not the best Russia has" ? All those VDV who died pathetically in places like Irpen aren't Russia's best ?
> 
> You're supposed to be a "think tank" how cannot you see Russia's blatant incompetence and corruption which led to its poor performance in Ukraine ? No combined arms operations,severe lack of communication between different units and services (use of non secure communications),poor battle management,poor logistics.... So much that they have to send generals on frontlines)
> 
> And don't tell me "muh they don't use full force they care about civilians". My @ss.
> 
> Of course you seem to be one who fell for Kremlin's myth around the Russian armed forces but turns out their armed forces are trash,of course it would be hard for you to admit it.


If Ukraine fight so well,why do they fight like guerrilla？ why don't they just drive russian out of ukraine? Your western propaganda just doesn't add up.

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## Vergennes

northeast said:


> If Ukraine fight so well,why do they fight like guerrilla？ why don't they just drive russian out of ukraine? Your western propaganda justdoesn't add up.



The "special military operation" has stalled,that's a fact and is proving too costly,the reason they are revising downward their objectives. If Russians had the upper hand they wouldn't entrench themselves and build up positions and trenches like they are doing on several fronts.


----------



## northeast

Vergennes said:


> The "special military operation" has stalled,that's a fact and is proving too costly,the reason they are revising downward their objectives. If Russians had the upper hand they wouldn't entrench themselves and build up positions and trenches like they are doing on several fronts.


Because it's meant and designed to be stalled except the east and south direction.Russia have no intention to attack big cities and fall into street battles. They just want to prevent ukrainian army forming big groups and counter-attack in donbass area.

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## jamahir

jhungary said:


> Well, as Zelenskyy said "If defending your own country is Nazi, then sure, everyone in Ukraine is Nazi"



The patriotic Syrians are also defending their country so why does the USA government want to overthrow the Assad government ?


----------



## NotSure

New Video from Gonzalo Lira, about Clinton and Nuland pulling the strings in the ukraine conflict.


----------



## V. Makarov



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## Vergennes

northeast said:


> Because it's meant and designed to be stalled except the east and south direction.Russia have no intention to attack big cities and fall into street battles. They just want to prevent ukrainian army forming big groups and counter-attack in donbass area.



The reason Russians are stalling is because they got their assessments on Ukraine so wrong ;

Putin bet on a clean and swift operation,the quick surrender of Ukraine and eastern Ukraine rallying on the Russian cause,towns falling one by one,welcoming Russian troops as liberators... none of that happened. And Ukraine didn't even declare general mobilization when Russians attacked.... 

Putin hoped for a quick takeover of Kyiv to decapitate the Ukrainian government to put a puppet in power... none of that happened.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508293905153937410

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508087539642482693

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508227032626384906

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508289242690211846


----------



## northeast

Vergennes said:


> The reason Russians are stalling is because they got their assessments on Ukraine so wrong ;
> 
> Putin bet on a clean and swift operation,the quick surrender of Ukraine and eastern Ukraine rallying on the Russian cause,towns falling one by one,welcoming Russian troops as liberators... none of that happened. And Ukraine didn't even declare general mobilization when Russians attacked....
> 
> Putin hoped for a quick takeover of Kyiv to decapitate the Ukrainian government to put a puppet in power... none of that happened.


LOL,that is just your wild imagination. The truth here is russian ground force have never tried to attack any big ukrainian city,and that is the only truth here except your imagination and bullshlt western propaganda fake news.

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## Vergennes

northeast said:


> LOL,that is just your wild imagination. The truth here is russian ground force have never tried to attack any big ukrainian city,and that is the only truth here except your imagination and bullshlt western propaganda fake news.



They didn't try to attack any big Ukrainian cities that's why they are sending troops to their deaths in Kyiv,Kharkiv,Sumy only to cite a few.  It's not like they didn't want to take any Ukrainian big city,it's just like they can't for now because of the heavy casualties suffered.

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## The SC

Lavrov: Biden's statements show that the West has reached a deep stage of hostility with us


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508366302322307078

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508374357156016143

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508373658989113350

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## northeast

Vergennes said:


> They didn't try to attack any big Ukrainian cities that's why they are sending troops to their deaths in Kyiv,Kharkiv,Sumy only to cite a few.  It's not like they didn't want to take any Ukrainian big city,it's just like they can't for now because of the heavy casualties suffered.


I said except south and east direction. No russian ground force attack kyev. They are just encircling the city.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508369983688032257

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508366253303468041

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508333002387984384


----------



## Vergennes

northeast said:


> I said except south and east direction. No russian ground force attack kyev. They are just encircling the city.



They tried to advance on Kyiv,however every attempts where thwarted by Ukrainian forces. Not to add logistic problems which slowed/stalled their advance. They haven't even fully encircled the city,they haven't entirely encircled the west and east of the city,the south is wide open,lmao.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508103364302839809
Ukrainian artillery continues to destroy the equipment of the Russian occupiers


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508345556489412621

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508267906823598083

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508349375562620930

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## northeast

Vergennes said:


> They tried to advance on Kyiv,however every attempts where thwarted by Ukrainian forces. Not to add logistic problems which slowed/stalled their advance. They haven't even fully encircled the city,they haven't entirely encircled the west and east of the city,the south is wide open,lmao.


Yeah,you know when mongols encircling a city,they intentionally leave an open pass. Russian army have no plan to enter kyiv,just to hold a big part of ukraine army away from donbass.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508353793502724097

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508331589431877635


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508232804735270916

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508232121189646344

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508144234192424964

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## Vergennes

lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508389172209455105


----------



## Abdulaziz Al-Karimi

Mariupol has apparently been confirmed to be taken as Russian flags has been raised in the city center HQ 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508375158440005634

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508372809088647170

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508377684157546496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508353200134393859


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## Vergennes

Abdulaziz Al-Karimi said:


> Mariupol has apparently been confirmed to be taken as Russian flags has been raised in the city center HQ
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508375158440005634
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508372809088647170

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## jhungary

deX said:


> I just *commented* on one of the propaganda video (or post). It was unfortunate that you were the carrier.
> 
> If "jewish govt" can't become pro nazi (or act like so in an "other" state), then maybe ppl need learn about human behaviour before blaming others...


You do know what is "Nazi" right? 

This is not about human behaviour, this is about "ideology". 

As I say, I have no problem you think it can, I am just pointing out the irony.



jamahir said:


> The patriotic Syrians are also defending their country so why does the USA government want to overthrow the Assad government ?


What had the Syrian have to do with this?


----------



## jamahir

jhungary said:


> What had the Syrian have to do with this?



I am just drawing comparisons. NATO is involved in the Syrian war and the Ukraine war. In Syria NATO is against the progressive Syrian government and in Ukraine NATO is supporting the Nazi-infested Ukraine government. Hypocrisy.


----------



## jhungary

jamahir said:


> I am just drawing comparisons. NATO is involved in the Syrian war and the Ukraine war. In Syria NATO is against the progressive Syrian government and in Ukraine NATO is supporting the Nazi-infested Ukraine government. Hypocrisy.


You do know you can only compare the two if you claim Syrian is Nazi regime too, right?

I am not seeing the reason as Putin said on invading Ukraine because Ukraine is "Progressive"


----------



## jamahir

jhungary said:


> You do know you can only compare the two if you claim Syrian is Nazi regime too, right?
> 
> I am not seeing the reason as Putin said on invading Ukraine because Ukraine is "Progressive"



You are just using circular argument because you are trying to avoid criticism of NATO and criticism of Zelensky government.

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## jhungary

jamahir said:


> You are just using circular argument because you are trying to avoid criticism of NATO and criticism of Zelensky government.


Well, I am not the one who said they invade Ukraine to denazify them.

I mean, if you have to compare Syria to Ukraine, you would need to compare the same circumstance. Otherwise you are comparing apple to oranges. So either you say NATO is hypocrite because they on one hand invade Syria to denazify them and then oppose Russia for doing the same in Ukraine, or they cannot be compared.


----------



## gambit

Watching the Russia defende


northeast said:


> If Ukraine fight so well,why do they fight like guerrilla？ why don't they just drive russian out of ukraine? Your western propaganda just doesn't add up.


The Ukrainians fought better than expected against a numerical superior enemy. They exploited the various incompetencies of the Russian military, from failures of logistics to failures of aviation, to inflict the unexpected levels of damages to the Russian military we are seeing today. Remember how people were criticizing US on fighting the Taliban? How so-called 'great' were the Taliban fighters that they so-called 'drove' US out? The Urkainians seems to be better fighters than the Taliban.

Guerrilla warfare is a type of warfare, not a type of military.



FairAndUnbiased said:


> Like I said, educate yourself on how grid level transmission works.


This is a military oriented place. I wonder how often you take your own advice, and admonish others, on 'educate yourself'.

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## Kraetoz

northeast said:


> If Ukraine fight so well,why do they fight like guerrilla？ why don't they just drive russian out of ukraine? Your western propaganda just doesn't add up.


At least Ukrainians are fighting, the pro western peeps who are jumping up and down here are too scared to face Russia, hence their propoganda, or the war of words. Zelenskyy himself called the west cowards yesterday, wonder why? Is he not satisfied with their verbal support?

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## jhungary

Dustom9 said:


> He doesn't know about Step-up stations and Step down/distribution substations.


Why would I be? (Actually, I know about Step up station)

As I said, why would I need to process such knowledge to decide whether or not to bomb the substation.

Sure, if you have unlimited amount of missile, go for it. But in war, everything is prioritised, of course, you can spend hundred of missile to try to take out 1 grid, you do that, and you are missing out on other Military Target. Again, for what? So people in that city goes without electricity for a few hours to a few days? What can that progress in your strategic goal by doing so?

Or you are trying to argue you only need a handful of missile to take out the entire grid in a city? Then my question is, how?

Again, weren't you *"CLAIMED"* to be Academy Trained Officer? How do you not understand war economy??


----------



## jamahir

jhungary said:


> Well, I am not the one who said they invade Ukraine to denazify them.
> 
> I mean, if you have to compare Syria to Ukraine, you would need to compare the same circumstance. Otherwise you are comparing apple to oranges. So either you say NATO is hypocrite because they on one hand invade Syria to denazify them and then oppose Russia for doing the same in Ukraine, or they cannot be compared.



Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood in Syria are Nazis / criminals so my comparison is valid.



gambit said:


> The Ukrainians fought better than expected against a numerical superior enemy. They exploited the various incompetencies of the Russian military, from failures of logistics to failures of aviation, to inflict the unexpected levels of damages to the Russian military we are seeing today. Remember how people were criticizing US on fighting the Taliban? How so-called 'great' were the Taliban fighters that they so-called 'drove' US out? The Urkainians seems to be better fighters than the Taliban.
> 
> Guerrilla warfare is a type of warfare, not a type of military.



Not valid equatings. The Taliban were deliberately enabled by NATO to begin rule of Afghanistan.


----------



## Musings

jamahir said:


> You are just using circular argument because you are trying to avoid criticism of NATO and criticism of Zelensky government.


You have hit the nail on the head. Circular argument - as he cannot handle the truth. 

We are clearly witnessing real agendas and a ongoing scenario where the "emperor is being displayed with no clothes". Yo must be crazy if you dont agree. 
Zelensky has really pushed his luck and the cloak is off. Its ok for him to stash his billions - its ok for him to cooperate the Nazis in Ukraine into the army and constantly create anamosity with Russia. He DID threaten to join NATO -even though Nato would have refrained from accepting their request. Taht was enough for Putin to "Will Smith" slap him.

I find the irony of a so called "professional" to have such poor grasp of the language and defend the indefensible. Those changing their flags to Ukraine are hilarious. Becoming cheerleaders and post propaganda - non verified pieces of news - portraying unprofessional-ism from the Ruskies. Jokers

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> This is a military oriented place. I wonder how often you take your own advice, and admonish others, on 'educate yourself'.


lol I remember he once said "You don't need to take Kyiv to demilitarize Ukraine...."

Well.........that said a lot to the man's knowledge.



jamahir said:


> Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood in Syria are Nazis / criminals so my comparison is valid.


How are they Nazi?? Because you said so??

Dude, Nazi is not a generic term for common criminal........



Musings said:


> You have hit the nail on the head. Circular argument - as he cannot handle the truth.
> 
> We are clearly witnessing real agendas and a ongoing scenario where the "emperor is being displayed with no clothes".* Yo* must be crazy if you dont agree.
> Zelensky has really pushed his luck and the cloak is off. Its ok for him to stash his billions - its ok for him to cooperate the Nazis in Ukraine into the army and constantly create *anamosity* with Russia. He DID threaten to join NATO -even though Nato would have refrained from accepting their request. *Taht* was enough for Putin to "Will Smith" slap him.
> 
> I find the irony of a so called "professional" to have such poor grasp of the language and defend the indefensible. Those changing their flags to Ukraine are hilarious. Becoming cheerleaders and post propaganda - non verified pieces of news - portraying unprofessional-ism from the Ruskies. Jokers


I can't handle "*YOURS*" version of "*TRUTH*"

You can't compare the two operations, because the two operations started with different goal in place. Do tell me, was Syria attacked by NATO because Syria want to join CSTO? Otherwise those two cannot be possibly compared, neither in circumstance nor the actual war.

Set aside that it was Zelenskyy's right to decide whether or not to Ukraine would join NATO, this is not for Putin to decide.

And next time before you point out other people poor grasp of language, may you mind your own spelling first.


----------



## jamahir

jhungary said:


> How are they Nazi?? Because you said so??
> 
> Dude, Nazi is not a generic term for common criminal........



So, what are the objectives of AQ and "M"B in Syria, rest of West Asia and Africa ? Though I will agree with you on the point that unlike AQ and "M"B the original Hitler Nazis didn't have masters, but Zelensky's Nazis have masters - the main controller governments of NATO which are USA , Britain and France.


----------



## jhungary

jamahir said:


> So, what are the objectives of AQ and "M"B in Syria, rest of West Asia and Africa ? Though I will agree with you on the point that unlike AQ and "M"B the original Hitler Nazis didn't have masters, but Zelensky's Nazis have masters - the main controller governments of NATO which are USA , Britain and France.


Then you are further moving away from the argument of both war can be comparable. 

Unless you are claiming someone other than Assad is behind Assad Regime?


----------



## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508212871053905920
For those that love listening to Horst Wessel Lied in public or in their closet, your favourite symbol done by your favourite Azov tribesmen that you all adored and sing hosannas to

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## deX

jhungary said:


> You do know what is "Nazi" right?
> 
> This is not about human behaviour, this is about "ideology".
> 
> As I say, I have no problem you think it can, I am just pointing out the irony.


I see that you are already having hard time in this thread, dealing with "uncomfortable" views... so i will just leave to that and just watch

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## jamahir

jhungary said:


> Then you are further moving away from the argument of both war can be comparable.
> 
> Unless you are claiming someone other than Assad is behind Assad Regime?



My simple argument is this : NATO governments are being hypocritical in supporting Ukraine government which is claiming to be repelling criminal invaders but NATO is not supporting the Assad government which is actually repelling criminal invaders.



DF41 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508212871053905920



@Vergennes @Messerschmitt @F-22Raptor @mmr, these are the crimes against humanity that you are supporting. Please repent.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508404313080672263


----------



## Broccoli

gambit said:


> Watching the Russia defende
> 
> The Ukrainians fought better than expected against a numerical superior enemy. They exploited the various incompetencies of the Russian military, from failures of logistics to failures of aviation, to inflict the unexpected levels of damages to the Russian military we are seeing today. Remember how people were criticizing US on fighting the Taliban? How so-called 'great' were the Taliban fighters that they so-called 'drove' US out? The Urkainians seems to be better fighters than the Taliban.
> 
> Guerrilla warfare is a type of warfare, not a type of military.
> 
> 
> This is a military oriented place. I wonder how often you take your own advice, and admonish others, on 'educate yourself'.



Talibans never had similar weapons what Ukrainians have.

If someone had thrown thousands of modern atgm's at talibans US casulties would have been higher especially armored vehicle losses as they were driving around protecting convoys.

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## jhungary

jamahir said:


> My simple argument is this : NATO governments are being hypocritical in supporting Ukraine government which is claiming to be repelling criminal invaders but NATO is not supporting the Assad government which is actually repelling criminal invaders.
> 
> 
> 
> @Vergennes @Messerschmitt @F-22Raptor @mmr, these are the crimes against humanity that you are supporting. Please repent.


You do know by saying that, you are admitting that Russia is "Criminal Invader" right?

You cannot stand on the side of Russia and using Russia casus belli for war and then come around and accuse NATO for being "Hypocrite".........as the old saying goes, you cannot have the cake and eat it..


----------



## DF41

For the listening pleasure of those that cheer for Avoz wonderful works, here is a rousing song that surely will touch you to the heart and soul.

https://tokentube.net/v/1876935734/Horst-Wessel-Lied---National-Anthem-of-Nazi-Germany

Surely Israel will get Israel Philharmonic Orchestra to play Horst Wesssel Lied in honour of Zelensky and Avoz when they come visiting via Zelensky magical green screen.

After all, Israel already accepted the swastika and wolfsangel and blacksun and even financed them and praised them, what is a mere song to Israel continued adoration of the works of Zelensky and Avoz ?

Maybe even erect a hundred foot statue of Adolf Hitler in front of Yad Vashem

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## Hassan Al-Somal

MoD Russia, [3/28/2022 3:09 AM]
🇷🇺🇺🇦Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

▫️The grouping of troops of the Russian Armed Forces, continuing a successful offensive, has penetrated 2 kilometres deep into the defence of the 95th Airborne Assault Brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and reached the southern outskirts of Novoselovka. 

▫️Units of the Lugansk People's Republic advanced 5 kilometres during the offensive, capturing Ivanovka and Novosadovoye and reaching Novolublino and Terny line.

▫️Aviation and air defence means of the Russian Aerospace Forces shot down 4 Su-24 aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force over Chernigov region, including 2 near Repka and 2 more near Gorodnya. 1 Ukrainian Su-27 fighter jet has been shot down near Kramatorsk, Donetsk region.

▫️During the day, 19 Ukrainian unmannes aerial vehicles were destroyed near Kapitonovka, Prishib, Andreevka, Balakleya, Bulgakovo, Bezymyanoe, Gorodnya, Zgurovka, Krasnogorlovka, Mandrykino, Mariupol, Termakhovka, Tolkachi, Chernobaevka and Yakovlevka.

▫️In addition, 5 missiles of the Ukrainian Smerch multiple launch rocket system were shot down in the air near Chernobaevka airfield, Kherson region.

✈️💥During the day on March 27, operational-tactical and army aviation hit 36 military assets of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Among them: 2 command posts, 2 anti-aircraft missile systems, 1 multiple launch rocket system, 3 ammunition depots and 2 fuel depots, as well as 23 areas of military equipment concentration.

💥In total, 308 unmanned aerial vehicles, 1,713 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 170 multiple launch rocket systems, 715 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,557 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.

#MoD #Russia #Ukrainian #Briefing
@mod_russia_en

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## jhungary

deX said:


> I see that you are already having hard time in this thread, dealing with "uncomfortable" views... so i will just leave to that and just watch


Well, everyone have their own views. I don't expect people to go along with my view, least of all the people here.

But then does that mean you are right and I am wrong? Well, all I can say is, if you have to define "Right or Wrong" on a personal view, then you are already in the wrong. 

On the other hand, I am not here to start enforcing my view on anybody, I am here because I want to talk about the war in a materialistic sense, which is my expertise.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508424852788633601

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508426061696094214


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508426934660833282

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508412278034546692

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508404003889205251

Even in Kiev region, Zelensky's government is absent. So the liberating Russian forces have to do more than liberating the country from Neo Nazis: They're providing humanitarian aid throughout the country.

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## sammuel

DF41 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508212871053905920
> For those that love listening to Horst Wessel Lied in public or in their closet, your favourite symbol done by your favourite Azov tribesmen that you all adored and sing hosannas to




Enough with this Nazi BS , do watch this clip , educate yourself and return to the discussion.








~

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## Kraetoz

sammuel said:


> Enough with this Nazi BS , do watch this clip , educate yourself and return to the discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


Educate yourself by watching BBC? 🤣🤣🤣

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508434838822563847

Now 2,000 visually confirmed losses for Russia.

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## jamahir

jhungary said:


> You do know by saying that, you are admitting that Russia is "Criminal Invader" right?



Did you or didn't you read me using the words "claiming to be" ? Please read my post again.



jhungary said:


> You cannot stand on the side of Russia and using Russia casus belli for war and then come around and accuse NATO for being "Hypocrite".........as the old saying goes, you cannot have the cake and eat it..



 



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508404003889205251
> 
> Even in Kiev region, Zelensky's government is absent. So the liberating Russian forces have to do more than liberating the country from Neo Nazis: They're providing humanitarian aid throughout the country.



This is not happening... according to the NATO propagandists on PDF.



sammuel said:


> Enough with this Nazi BS , do watch this clip , educate yourself and return to the discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~



Man, on this you are presenting a BBC vid out of all the available things as evidence of proof ?  And are you saying it was the Russians who burned the swastika on that person's body ?

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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508424852788633601
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508426061696094214



Fighting in the east is turning into completely disorganised Brownian motion with cut-off companies, and battalions hopping from village to village.

I already see them hauling ammo on hijacked civilian sedans, and transporting troops in civvie vehicles.

Yes, it is their last resort forces basically trying to survive there.



jhungary said:


> You do know you can only compare the two if you claim Syrian is Nazi regime too, right?
> 
> I am not seeing the reason as Putin said on invading Ukraine because Ukraine is "Progressive"



Why would East Germany attack West Germany? How in the world will a "brother" go against a brother?


----------



## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508434838822563847
> 
> Now 2,000 visually confirmed losses for Russia.



That's pretty 2/3 of the number of equipment Russian land forces got since their military reform started. We assume that losses not registered visually are at least 2-3 times that.

So, it is 10 years of military reform being undone in a month. And we know, entire brand new regiments will be written off after this. Maybe, whole divisions.

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## mmr

Displaying 'Z' symbol could be criminal act in Germany, ministry says


Individuals who display the letter "Z" in Germany to symbolise support for Russia's war in Ukraine could be liable to prosecution, an Interior Ministry spokesperson said on Monday.




www.reuters.com




Displaying 'Z' symbol could be criminal act in Germany, ministry says​

Russians who support this war should be labelled as terrorist. Same way ISIS sympathizers were dealt with.

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## Kraetoz

jamahir said:


> Man, on this you are presenting a BBC vid out of all the available things as evidence of proof ?  And are you saying it was the Russians who burned the swastika on that person's body ?


He has gone to fetch more proof, next time he will bring evidence from CNN.

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## Vergennes

Putin sending kids to the slaughterhouse in Ukraine


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508402233746071555

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## Knockingdoors

mmr said:


> Displaying 'Z' symbol could be criminal act in Germany, ministry says
> 
> 
> Individuals who display the letter "Z" in Germany to symbolise support for Russia's war in Ukraine could be liable to prosecution, an Interior Ministry spokesperson said on Monday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Displaying 'Z' symbol could be criminal act in Germany, ministry says​
> 
> Russians who support this war should be labelled as terrorist. Same way ISIS sympathizers were dealt with.



woow.. Germany has actully stopped being soft or middling but has taken a major stand

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## Vergennes



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## Apollon

Germany made clear that all G7 nations agree to not pay gas deliveries in ruble. 









Germany: G7 rejects Russia's demand to pay for gas in rubles


The Group of Seven major economies have agreed to reject Moscow’s demand to pay for Russian natural gas exports in rubles




www.google.com





I seriously wonder who advises Putin. This is his last income. Germany also said if Russia shuts down gas pupelines, they will never be opened again.

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## DF41

sammuel said:


> Enough with this Nazi BS , do watch this clip , educate yourself and return to the discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


How about you and all those in Israel that support Avoz and Ukraine show your support by growing 
toothbrush moustache?

In addition to playing Horst Wessel Lied day and night.

Avoz and Zelensky will be delighted at such open support.

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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> That's pretty 2/3 of the number of equipment Russian land forces got since their military reform started. We assume that losses not registered visually are at least 2-3 times that.
> 
> So, it is 10 years of military reform being undone in a month. And we know, entire brand new regiments will be written off after this. Maybe, whole divisions.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508435315123445761
Visual losses are closer to 2,200

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## mmr

Apollon said:


> Germany made clear that all G7 nations agree to not pay gas deliveries in ruble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Germany: G7 rejects Russia's demand to pay for gas in rubles
> 
> 
> The Group of Seven major economies have agreed to reject Moscow’s demand to pay for Russian natural gas exports in rubles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I seriously wonder who advises Putin. This is his last income. Germany also said if Russia shuts down gas pupelines, they will never be opened again.



Americans must be laughing 

Putler trying to play hard ball with Europe will only backfire and force EU to depends on USA lot more

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## DF41

What I got from my WhatsApp.

Matters little who wrote that. As it is the message that truly matter


EFFORT POST 

So this is what’s going to happen geoppolitically:

The Americans sanctioned Russia as hard as they possibly could, openly trying to break the Russian economy. Most of America’s vassal states in the west followed suit.

India and China have not. So the Americans are now threatening India and China with sanctions of their own, unless they join the United States in punishing Russia.

Paradoxically, America’s bullying tactics against both countries will wind up making them the best of friends.

India has exceedingly good relationship with Russia for several decades — they will not jeopardize it because of the Americans. So in retaliation for not doing what they want, the Americans will sanction India. It will be what my friend Alexandra Mercouris calls “the sanctions escalator”: Little by little at first, random officials here and there, and then slowly targeting the entire Indian economy.

Insofar as China is concerned, America has started this “sanctions escalator “, and the Chinese are under no illusions. But for China, Russia is much more important than the United States. China has spent over 25 years deliberately and consciously deepening its relationship with Russia. China views Russia as a primary partner, and will under no circumstances jeopardize that relationship. That’s why China will never sanction Russia. So China will take on American sanctions — but China realizes something crucial:

The United States needs China much more than the other way around.

China and India have had long-standing border disputes. Because of this American pressure, the two countries are now quickly resolving these border issues, especially water rights issues. Both of them realize that, in order to resist American pressure, they must become allied.

So very quickly, a new super alliance will form between Russia, China and India. Iran, which has strong relationships with Russia and blossoming relationships with China, will inevitably join this partnership.

If these four countries decide to cut out the west, Europe will not have gas for electricity and heat, and no customers for its cars and product. And the Americans will discover that no one wants their dollars—so the American financial architecture will completely collapse, and the US will find itself in the biggest depression of its history. (Yes you read right.)

The Americans do not realize that the US needs China/Russia/India far FAR more than the other way around. Americas hollowed out industrial base means that it does not produce anything. It needs products from Russia/China/India. And yet it is the United States which is busy alienating precisely those nations that it most needs. 

The Americans have broken with the Russians – there is now a sanctions moat between Russia and the west. If the US and Europe does this with China and India, the west will sink, their economy completely shattered. And this new Eurasian block will become the literal center of the earth. 

Through sheer incompetence, the United States is about to collapse. I am not being hyperbolic, this is what is happening right now. By the end of 2023, there will be catastrophic hyperinflation, over 50% unemployment, mass food shortages, and no gasoline in the United States of America.

Don’t believe me? Watch.

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## Abdulaziz Al-Karimi

Europe can't handle Russia and as a matter fact they are to weak to take on the Russians but there is one way to do that..

Nuclearize Germany to the teeth. The Germans really have the Russian number to a dot. Even if you read the Russian historians or history in general you will know that the German fear has been a timeless stuff for the Russians and for good reasons because the germans can outdo the Russians in their strongest area which is the capability to bite down on your mouth piece and dig deep and patience. The Germans are known for their patience and endurance which is why they have beaten the Russians so many times because they are the only ones who can outshine the Russians in their strongest area..


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508449333028478983

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## jamahir

mmr said:


> Displaying 'Z' symbol could be criminal act in Germany, ministry says





> "The Russian war of aggression on the Ukraine is a criminal act, and whoever publicly approves of this war of aggression can also make himself liable to prosecution


Look who's talking about criminal acts. 

And I thought there was freedom of expression in the West.



mmr said:


> Russians who support this war should be labelled as terrorist. Same way ISIS sympathizers were dealt with.



And what about you, Tableeghi ? And you being a Tableeghi yet again did a Haha react where a sane person wouldn't - for me quoting a tweet where some Nazis in Ukraine burned a swastika on a girl's body. Perhaps you would have stopped supporting these Nazis had this act been done on you.



Vergennes said:


> Putin sending kids to the slaughterhouse in Ukraine
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508402233746071555



Oh, stop your Western-government fake morality. Was it acceptable to you when not-"kid", above-voting-age NATO soldiers genocided and war-crimed since 1950 ?

And that young man has the bravery that perhaps I don't, mostly because I don't like wars but I support wars of righteousness.

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## Apollon

mmr said:


> Americans must be laughing
> 
> Putler trying to play hard ball with Europe will only backfire and force EU to depends on USA lot more



Thats the thing. Putin destroyed evrything that russia build up in europe in decades within 4 weeks. Even in cold war era USSR never touched gas pipelines to Europe.



jamahir said:


> Look who's talking about criminal acts.
> 
> And I thought there was freedom of expression in the West.
> 
> 
> 
> And what about you, Tableeghi ? And you being a Tableeghi yet again did a Haha react where a sane person wouldn't - for me quoting a tweet where some Nazis in Ukraine burned a swastika on a girl's body. Perhaps you would have stopped supporting these Nazis had this act been done on you.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, stop your Western-government fake morality. Was it acceptable to you when not-"kid", above-voting-age NATO soldiers genocided and war-crimed since 1950 ?
> 
> And that young man has the bravery that perhaps I don't, mostly because I don't like wars but I support wars of righteousness.



Are you happy how this war goes for russia so far?

I see in posts here even most hardcore putinists stay more and more silent

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Thats the thing. Putin destroyed evrything that russia build up in europe in decades within 4 weeks. Even in cold war era USSR never touched gas pipelines to Europe.



*sigh* You are back with your Putin hate.


----------



## mmr

Apollon said:


> Thats the thing. Putin destroyed evrything that russia build up in europe in decades within 4 weeks. Even in cold war era USSR never touched gas pipelines to Europe.


i think putler works for CIA

He is helping USA in a way previous three administrations has failed. Increase NATO contribution from Germans and others...buy shit load of LNG from USA and make Europe work with usa in china issues going forward. cheery on top buy billions of USA arms.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506949723739111424
Interview of Ukrainian fighter pilots

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## northeast

Apollon said:


> Germany made clear that all G7 nations agree to not pay gas deliveries in ruble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Germany: G7 rejects Russia's demand to pay for gas in rubles
> 
> 
> The Group of Seven major economies have agreed to reject Moscow’s demand to pay for Russian natural gas exports in rubles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I seriously wonder who advises Putin. This is his last income. Germany also said if Russia shuts down gas pupelines, they will never be opened again.


Russia will stop natural gas supply to europe if it's not paid in ruble for sure,russia and europe will both suffer. Putin is not bluffing.


----------



## Clutch

sammuel said:


> Enough with this Nazi BS , do watch this clip , educate yourself and return to the discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


----------



## Wood



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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508456576549634052


----------



## northeast

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508456576549634052


Is that a news? ukraine also mobilize males 18-60.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508459328080125953

Terrible

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> *sigh* You are back with your Putin hate.



I dont have hate against Putin or Russia in general. I pity them. Im patriot myself and if i imagine myself in their position, i would be desperate.



mmr said:


> i think putler works for CIA
> 
> He is helping USA in a way previous three administrations has failed. Increase NATO contribution from Germans and others...buy shit load of LNG from USA and make Europe work with usa in china issues going forward. cheery on top buy billions of USA arms.



I think same. He basicly put NATO on anabolica and damaged russian interests on a massive scale. The last 4 weeks have been throwing russia under the bus. The worst aspect is, how weak its military is. And that is very dangerous for russia.

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## mmr

northeast said:


> Russia will stop natural gas supply to europe if it's not paid in ruble for sure,russia and europe will both suffer. Putin is not bluffing.


Both will suffer. But once russia cut off gas they are done with Europe for ever. 

Its bad news for climate change too. I suspect lot more coal burning will take place.

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## northeast

Apollon said:


> I dont have hate against Putin or Russia in general. I pity them. Im patriot myself and if i imagine myself in their position, i would be desperate.
> 
> 
> 
> I think same. He basicly put NATO on anabolica and damaged russian interests on a massive scale. The last 4 weeks have been throwing russia under the bus. The worst aspect is, how weak its military is. And that is very dangerous for russia.


Yet putin's approval rate have risen to nearly 80%.


----------



## Apollon

northeast said:


> Russia will stop natural gas supply to europe if it's not paid in ruble for sure,russia and europe will both suffer. Putin is not bluffing.



Germany will not pay in ruble. Entire EU and G7 denied that. Im quite sure putin is bluffing. Its only income he has left and Germany made sure to say if pipelines are shut down, they will never open again. Do you think Putin will risk that?



northeast said:


> Yet putin's approval rate have risen to nearly 80%.



I can understand that as well. I would cling to our leadership too. What else can one do?

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## FairAndUnbiased

Abdulaziz Al-Karimi said:


> Europe can't handle Russia and as a matter fact they are to weak to take on the Russians but there is one way to do that..
> 
> Nuclearize Germany to the teeth. The Germans really have the Russian number to a dot. Even if you read the Russian historians or history in general you will know that the German fear has been a timeless stuff for the Russians and for good reasons because the germans can outdo the Russians in their strongest area which is the capability to bite down on your mouth piece and dig deep and patience. The Germans are known for their patience and endurance which is* why they have beaten the Russians so many times because they are the only ones who can outshine the Russians in their strongest area..*


when did Germany beat the Russians? Even in WW1, they beat the Russians indecisively and still lost in the end.

Germany hasn't won a war in 150 years since the Franco-Prussian War. Even against Africans they were defeated in the end by South Africa. This is simply an objective fact.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508462520171962374

Russian advance on Kiev has now evaporated

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## Apollon

FairAndUnbiased said:


> when did Germany beat the Russians? Even in WW1, they beat the Russians indecisively and still lost in the end.
> 
> Germany hasn't won a war in 150 years since the Franco-Prussian War. Even against Africans they were defeated in the end by South Africa. This is simply an objective fact.



Germany was never at war in africa...

The city of Irpin got liberated by ukrainian forces today 









Ukrainian forces retake control of town of Irpin, says local mayor


The mayor of Irpin, near Kyiv, said on Monday Ukrainian forces had seized back full control of the town which has been one of the main hotspots of fighting with Russian troops near the capital.




www.reuters.com

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## FairAndUnbiased

Apollon said:


> Germany was never at war in africa...


factually incorrect.


----------



## northeast

Apollon said:


> Germany will not pay in ruble. Entire EU and G7 denied that. Im quite sure putin is bluffing. Its only income he has left and Germany made sure to say if pipelines are shut down, they will never open again. Do you think Putin will risk that?
> 
> 
> 
> I can understand that as well. I would cling to our leadership too. What else can one do?


Yes, he will cut off the gas supply. In wars,both sides suffer. From the day US and EU start sanctioninig russia,illegally took huge money from russia and their businessmen,the economy war begins. Natural gas is a supplier market,russia can always sell it to other countries like china and india.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508464249437396997


----------



## Type59

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506949723739111424
> Interview of Ukrainian fighter pilots



Donbass region they don't have freedom of movement, Russians have complete control. Having a presence far from front lines is not that impressive.


----------



## DF41

Clutch said:


>




Then time for all patriotic Britisher to grow toothbrush moustache to show support for Avoz and Zelensky

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## jhungary

jamahir said:


> Did you or didn't you read me using the words "claiming to be" ? Please read my post again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not happening... according to the NATO propagandists on PDF.
> 
> 
> 
> Man, on this you are presenting a BBC vid out of all the available things as evidence of proof ?  And are you saying it was the Russians who burned the swastika on that person's body ?


You do know "Claim to be" and "Admitted to" is one and the same??


----------



## Apollon

FairAndUnbiased said:


> factually incorrect.



Won by Germany. The enemy was completly wiped out. Germany lost the areas during and after WW I


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Fighting in the east is turning into completely disorganised Brownian motion with cut-off companies, and battalions hopping from village to village.
> 
> I already see them hauling ammo on hijacked civilian sedans, and transporting troops in civvie vehicles.
> 
> Yes, it is their last resort forces basically trying to survive there.
> 
> 
> 
> Why would East Germany attack West Germany? How in the world will a "brother" go against a brother?


Probably because west Germany is Nazi.........

LOL


----------



## Apollon

northeast said:


> Yes, he will cut off the gas supply. In wars,both sides suffer. From the day US and EU start sanctioninig russia,illegally took huge money from russia and their businessmen,the economy war begins. Natural gas is a supplier market,russia can always sell it to other countries like china and india.



And how does it get the gas there? With milk cans? Russias entire infrastructure is centered to Germany. Once it stops, all this infrastructure can be written off, since Russia would lose its entire market there. To build pipelines to China and India in same capacity will take 5-10 years.

In other words, Russia is financial dead.

Btw the sanctions are not illegal and fully comply with EU law. I would not call it sanctions either, we call it special economic operation.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508467407857278980


----------



## sur

sammuel said:


> Enough with this *Nazi BS* , do watch this clip ,* educate yourself *and return to the discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


There are few things wrong here:

(1) *Assumption that Nazi = Jew hatred, is incorrect*. Despite holocaust being a big part of Nazi'ism, it wasn't just about hating/killing Jews. There was more to it. Like strong believe that you are genetically superior to another race and have right to take over that inferior race. Many Jews hold this concept so are Nazi despite being Jew. There were Jews who collaborated with Hitler. I have seen Pakistanis on this forum talking of their genetic superiority over Indians, so they are also sort of ill with Nazi'ism.

(2) Term used often is new/neo-Nazi (as opposed to Nazi) for reason above. Your own *ADL wants to educates on that, "supremacist"*. So when Rus claims neo-Nazi in UA, *Rus is NOT talking about Jew hatred ONLY*, they are talking *more about hatred of Rusi to a Nazi-level [*a level where neoNazi Ukrainians want to exterminate anyone with Rusi connection. West is being neo-Nazi too these days, in that they banned Rusi athlete, opera singer, letter "Z", businessmen, etc etc*]*. And to a level where UA behaves like Nazis towards Rusi speaking population, or Roma gypsies, etc. *Though Jew hatred also exists in UA* as you will see below.

(3) Many countries agreed that there was a neo-Nazi problem in UA. So BBC is the one who is lying here.

(4) BBC piece above is lies & twisting and backtracking from it's own previous coverage of UA. So* people shouldn't really "educate" themselves with lies*.

(5) For argument sake, if that piece had truth in it, then *you* [_assuming you are Jewish?_] *wouldn't feel bad if Ukrainians doing things like below, right?*




*(1) *Nazi ≠ Jew hatred​





*Official Government of UA*'s Rusi hatred *against children* to Nazi-level:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504110996067176456

UA soldiers' Nazi-level hatred towards their own countrymen in *Donbass, "They should ALL be destroyed"*:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505442209667059716

Own countrypeople in* Donbass are useless, must be EXTERMINATED*, Nazi-level hatred on *UA's "Hromadske" TV* channel:





*Official Government of UA*'s *genetic superiority complex* over Rusi (link):







*TV channel of UA* - Nazi-level hate towards Rusi *children*:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503777020190339082


Genetically inferior Roma gypsy's hatred to a Nazi-level:








Attacked and abandoned: Ukraine’s forgotten Roma


In a country which suffered terribly at the hands of the Nazis during World War II, pogroms against an ethnic minority have somehow become commonplace.




www.aljazeera.com






Whole thread on street justice - emanates from Nazi-like mentality:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505582698710061078




*(2) It's neo-Nazi to be exact*, not just those Jew haters*:*​*(**src**)*
*



*







*(3)* Many countries indicated neo-Nazi problem in UA:​
Americans (link):
White Racially Motivated = *WRM*




NYT:






Congressman opposed:





But Pentagon supported neo-Nazis:






Canadians (link):







Ukrainians themselves under pressure from *Australians *after mosque shooting:








Ukraine's Secret Service Busts Neo-Nazi Cell Inspired By Christchurch Shooter


The group was printing extremist literature and stockpiling guns, explosive devices and Nazi paraphernalia.




www.vice.com







French and Brazalians (link):
*



*


Russians:


https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/1508549488528568335



Ukrainians:


https://twitter.com/r_u_vid/status/1508370442863534083







*(4)* BBC contradict themselves if they claim now that neo-Nazis in UA is non-issue:​


https://twitter.com/Vasilisa_Larina/status/1508148045174775810















*(5)* if you still believe that UA Nazi'ism is not real, then hopefully you & other Jews wouldn't mind the following, :​
*(**Tweet#1**) «The Jew is crying and says: "Please don't hit me", in the garden, in the quiet corner, a gallows is waiting for him (the Jew)»
(**Tweet#2**)* Catholic mass and tribute to the Ukrainian Nazi Vasyl Ivahiv, Nazi collaborator of the OUN-UPA.
Go through rest of this tweet-thread also:



















(src)





(src) In UA police:





Ukrainians revering Hitler:





At UA government level:







*Ukrainian destroying* grave marked with star of David, poster says it's *grave of Holocaust victim*:
Watch the whole tweet-thread for more samples:


https://twitter.com/DaniMayakovski/status/1497671602523279362

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## Meengla

Broccoli said:


> Talibans never had similar weapons what Ukrainians have.
> 
> If someone had thrown thousands of modern atgm's at talibans US casulties would have been higher especially armored vehicle losses as they were driving around protecting convoys.



Yes. It would have been a very bloody bloodbath if foreign powers had given the weapons being given to the Ukrainian. Oh, how much would Russia now want the NATO troops to be in Afghanistan right now! Makes you wonder about the timing of the Ukraine war---a comfortable six months after NATO left Afghanistan.
But gloves would come off once Russia regroups and start looking at where NATO forces are stationed in conflict zones... Bloody proxy wars!!


----------



## Dustom9

Apollon said:


> And how does it get the gas there? With milk cans? Russias entire infrastructure is centered to Germany. Once it stops, all this infrastructure can be written off, since Russia would lose its entire market there. To build pipelines to China and India in same capacity will take 5-10 years.
> 
> In other words, Russia is financial dead.
> 
> Btw the sanctions are not illegal and fully comply with EU law. I would not call it sanctions either, we call it special economic operation.


USA has a lot of common enemies! If china raises just 50cent per kg of plastic price, it can fund entire Ukrainian operations!


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508467407857278980


Some analysts have said that Russia can last a total of 3 months before running short of resources. I suppose the question is - Can Ukraine sustain the war for 3 months?

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## Apollon

Dustom9 said:


> USA has a lot of common enemies! If china raises just 50cent per kg of plastic price, it can fund entire Ukrainian operations!



So far china only raised warm words. China will never support putins war in Ukraine. It would be a decleration of war against Europe. This isnt about USA, its about Putin waging war in Europe. It is not in Europes interest to let this facist dictator win. And Chinas entire trade politics are based on cordial relations with Europe.

Beside that im quite sure China took note how weak russias army is. Siberia is ripe for them to take



Wood said:


> Some analysts have said that Russia can last a total of 3 months before running short of resources. I suppose the question is - Can Ukraine sustain the war for 3 months?



Ukraine is constantly resupplied by EU and USA, so i guess is they can stand far longer than Russia

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## Dustom9

Apollon said:


> And how does it get the gas there? With milk cans? Russias entire infrastructure is centered to Germany. Once it stops, all this infrastructure can be written off, since Russia would lose its entire market there. To build pipelines to China and India in same capacity will take 5-10 years.
> 
> In other words, Russia is financial dead.
> 
> Btw the sanctions are not illegal and fully comply with EU law. I would not call it sanctions either, we call it special economic operation.


USA has a lot of common enemies! If china raises just 50cent per kg of plastic price, it can fund entire Ukrainian operations!


Apollon said:


> So far china only raised warm words. China will never support putins war in Ukraine. It would be a decleration of war against Europe. This isnt about USA, its about Putin waging war in Europe. It is not in Europes interest to let this facist dictator win. And Chinas entire trade politics are based on cordial relations with Europe.
> 
> Beside that im quite sure China took note how weak russias army is. Siberia is ripe for them to take
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine is constantly resupplied by EU and USA, so i guess is they can stand far longer than Russia


You don't know that! Not everything has to be overt. 
Ukrain is being supplied by hardware but more importantly, NATO/US spy planes in vicinity are/were providing coordinates to Ukrainian forces. 
Russia is fighting Ukraine + nato intelligence and information and winning!

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## FairAndUnbiased

Apollon said:


> Won by Germany. The enemy was completly wiped out. Germany lost the areas during and after WW I


Result: Allied victory

Territorial changes: South West Africa annexed to the Union of South Africa

Ah I see. German victory = getting your land annexed.

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## sammuel

Clutch said:


>




Wow started to watch already false on the first sentence minute 01:17 - the " Israelis are sending weapons to Ukraine "- no we are not. Not since the war started. though they asked again and again. All we sent so far was humanitarian aid and a field hospital.

Basic fact is that far right party got less than 2% of the votes in the last election, staining all Ukrainians with that is simply false.

Trust me we have our own complex historical score with Ukraine concerning WW2. Though few helped Jews and where awarded righteous among nations , many collaborated with Nazi Germany , some of the worst massacres took place on Ukrainian land and many of the prison guards in the concentration camps where in fact Ukrainians.

But what does that mean today when most Ukrainians living today , where born long after the war ?

To use the term " denazification " today, as an excuse for war , is an insult to all those who died during the holocaust.



~

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## mmr

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508420412476170245

we will miss vacation to Siberia

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## StraightEdge

sammuel said:


> Enough with this Nazi BS , do watch this clip , educate yourself and return to the discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~



BBC!! You could have quoted a Tom Clancy novel instead.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508472839002898435

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> I dont have hate against Putin or Russia in general. I pity them. Im patriot myself and if i imagine myself in their position, i would be desperate.



So you have changed from your previous position where you demanded that Putin's wife and children be arrested in Europe because they have to answer for his "crimes" and also should be used as bargaining tools ?



jhungary said:


> You do know "Claim to be" and "Admitted to" is one and the same??



In English - White House version 2.0 Beta ?


----------



## Apollon

Dustom9 said:


> USA has a lot of common enemies! If china raises just 50cent per kg of plastic price, it can fund entire Ukrainian operations!
> 
> You don't know that! Not everything has to be overt.
> Ukrain is being supplied by hardware but more importantly, NATO/US spy planes in vicinity are/were providing coordinates to Ukrainian forces.
> Russia is fighting Ukraine + nato intelligence and information and winning!



Do you live in a paraleel universe?

Russia lost 7 generals, 10.000 soldiers. 400 tanks, 83 helicopters, 72 jets and one of only 7 landing ships. It has not gained a single large city and now even is forced to retreat. 

If thats winning for you...then i dont know whats losing?

A good indicator for Russia completly losing is their state propaganda Ria Novosti. They went from "Ukraine will become Russia to now, Russia only wants sexurity for Donbass. Thats quite big change in 4 weeks.

Btw NATO has alot to answer as well. For decades Russia was build up as boogy man to justify gigantic defense budgets. And now we see Russias army is like a clowns group...



mmr said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508420412476170245
> 
> we will miss vacation to Siberia



Oh no. The goes my bath vacation on Wrangel Island.

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Btw NATO has alot to answer as well. For decades Russia was build up as boogy man to justify gigantic defense budgets. And now we see Russias army is like a clowns group...



You are right hence NATO should just Russia by land, sea, air and space.


----------



## jamal18

Simply excellent.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508473375320154123

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508411511647219723

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## Apollon

On a sidenote, you know why its sure that Putin is bluffing regarding gas for ruble? He desperatly needs the money and took greatest care that the pipelines in ukraine which lead to Germany, are not even scratched. Germany knows this, so does EU and entire G7. Thats why they wont pay in ruble. Another slap in the face of Putin.



Dustom9 said:


> This thread is a good indicator of how much de-nazification of the world is required!
> I hope someday IP addresses will help.
> Asian, African, china and Russian powers probably have already understood.



Be careful what you say. Half your population is on food aid. 

As for russian power...good joke. African powers? Seriously?

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## lightning F57

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508472839002898435


Maybe Lockheed martin are giving putin kickbacks, that is a joke btw.


----------



## oberschlesier

Apollon said:


> On a sidenote, you know why its sure that Putin is bluffing regarding gas for ruble? He desperatly needs the money and took greatest care that the pipelines in ukraine which lead to Germany, are not even scratched. Germany knows this, so does EU and entire G7. Thats why they wont pay in ruble. Another slap in the face of Putin.
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful what you say. Half your population is on food aid.
> 
> As for russian power...good joke. African powers? Seriously?


It`s just natural, that the EU would shift development help from distant countries to focus more on Ukraine, which is at the border, if required.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508438299270070287


----------



## Dustom9

Apollon said:


> On a sidenote, you know why its sure that Putin is bluffing regarding gas for ruble? He desperatly needs the money and took greatest care that the pipelines in ukraine which lead to Germany, are not even scratched. Germany knows this, so does EU and entire G7. Thats why they wont pay in ruble. Another slap in the face of Putin.
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful what you say. Half your population is on food aid.
> 
> As for russian power...good joke. African powers? Seriously?


70000-150000 year old history of humans walking the earth! Practically all regions/races / kingdoms get to be in power.
Asia and Africa represents the world!
white boys on islands should enjoy while it lasts.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508494767864303618


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Footage of objective monitoring of the destruction of the stronghold of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with the firing position of the BMP in the trench. The calculation of the unmanned aerial vehicle established the location of the firing position and ensured the guidance of precision-guided munitions. With a precise hit, the fortified checkpoint was destroyed.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508490349332770817

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## Georg

Dustom9 said:


> 70000-150000 year old history of humans walking the earth! Practically all regions/races / kingdoms get to be in power.
> Asia and Africa represents the world!
> white boys on islands should enjoy while it lasts.


brainfuced racist are you


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508460291595591695

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508460561595605002

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## Apollon

Dustom9 said:


> 70000-150000 year old history of humans walking the earth! Practically all regions/races / kingdoms get to be in power.
> Asia and Africa represents the world!
> white boys on islands should enjoy while it lasts.



Europe represents the world as well and always was one of the power centers.

Btw spare your racism.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508484288857219085


----------



## oberschlesier

Apollon said:


> On a sidenote, you know why its sure that Putin is bluffing regarding gas for ruble? He desperatly needs the money and took greatest care that the pipelines in ukraine which lead to Germany, are not even scratched. Germany knows this, so does EU and entire G7. Thats why they wont pay in ruble. Another slap in the face of Putin.
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful what you say. Half your population is on food aid.
> 
> As for russian power...good joke. African powers? Seriously?


Russia is speculating on currency and commodities market  Sending messages: "We want payment in rubles", "We will cut Gas", "We will definatelly cut Gas", "Our hand is already on the valve" lol, and the market is fluctuating in short term.

If they would like to cut the Gas, they would already did it.

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## StraightEdge

Apollon said:


> On a sidenote, you know why its sure that Putin is bluffing regarding gas for ruble? He desperatly needs the money and took greatest care that the pipelines in ukraine which lead to Germany, are not even scratched. Germany knows this, so does EU and entire G7. Thats why they wont pay in ruble. Another slap in the face of Putin.
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful what you say. Half your population is on food aid.
> 
> As for russian power...good joke. African powers? Seriously?



This is mighty greek speaking, if we somehow get all the free loaders from UP to pee at same time, that will probably fill your Maritsa river. Just few moons back, the country was close to being bankrupt.


----------



## dBSPL

The words of the EU High Representative for Foreign Relations and Security Policy Josep Borrell a few years ago are the manifestation of the EU region's view of the world in general. They accuse the world of imperialism without seeing what they are doing.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508332057465958400"In general we can say Europe is facing a situation in which the old empires are coming back"

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## Apollon

oberschlesier said:


> Russia is speculating on currency and commodities market  Sending messages: "We want payment in rubles", "We will cut Gas", "We will definatelly cut Gas", "Our hand is already on the valve" lol, and the market is fluctuating in short term.
> 
> If they would like to cut the Gas, they would already did it.



Dogs who bark dont bite. Crazy how weak Putin is


----------



## mmr

Dustom9 said:


> This thread is a good indicator of how much de-nazification of the world is required!
> I hope someday IP addresses will help.
> Asian, African, china and Russian powers probably have already understood.


How about RSS?

Will ur pee drinking PM de nazify india to stop love jihad, cow jihad etc? what ur ppl doing to assam bengali muslims? or in kashmir. 

the way ur ppl treat minorities... Muslims live in west might have problems but still have lot more freedom. at least they don't get beaten to death for eating cow.

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## Apollon

StraightEdge said:


> This is mighty greek speaking, if we somehow get all the free loaders from UP to pee at same time, that will probably fill your Maritsa river. Just few moons back, the country was close to being bankrupt.



Even bancrupt the poorest of Greece still belonged to richest in the world. I think you dont understsnd how rich Europe is. 

I give you a hint. Poorest country of EU is romania...and it has 3 times higher monthly income per person than russia...


----------



## dBSPL

-Year 1950. World population 2.5 Billion

USA 151 million 6% of world population
Soviets 180 million 7.2%
Western Europe 305 million 12%
Total: 636 m. 25%

-Year 2021. World population 7.8 Billion

USA 331 million 4.2%
Russia 146 million 1.8%
EU 447 million 5.7% (with new members from eastern europe)
Total: 924 m. %11

Unless 1/10 of the world's population gives up on the desire to have absolute power over the remaining 9/10, we will go to an absolute world war.

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## Foinikas

StraightEdge said:


> This is mighty greek speaking, if we somehow get all the free loaders from UP to pee at same time, that will probably fill your Maritsa river. Just few moons back, the country was close to being bankrupt.


Please stop.



Apollon said:


> Even bancrupt the poorest of Greece still belonged to richest in the world.


What are you even talking about? That's not true.


----------



## Viet

Dustom9 said:


> This thread is a good indicator of how much de-nazification of the world is required!
> I hope someday IP addresses will help.
> Asian, African, china and Russian powers probably have already understood.


Internet is invented in the west.
If you stop using it the imperialism will decline.

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## oberschlesier

Dustom9 said:


> This thread is a good indicator of how much de-nazification of the world is required!
> I hope someday IP addresses will help.
> Asian, African, china and Russian powers probably have already understood.


This thread is showing, there two conflicting narrations to this story.


----------



## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Please stop.
> 
> 
> What are you even talking about? That's not true.



Of course its true. There is no poverty in Greece. I advice you to go Madagascar or Russia, Cambodia or india. There you see poverty of unimaginable scale.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508497414214365190
I found it odd that Germany and the rest of EU want to arm the Ukrainians and impose sanctions on Russia, yet expect Russians to use the Euro or the Dollar. How does that add up? 

How can someone sell products when the buyer doesn't allow him (or her) to have access to those funds acquired through that sale? 

The West is One-Eyed. They can only see things through one eye.

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## Apollon

dBSPL said:


> -Year 1950. World population 2.5 Billion
> 
> USA 151 million 6% of world population
> Soviets 180 million 7.2%
> Western Europe 305 million 12%
> Total: 636 m. 25%
> 
> -Year 2021. World population 7.8 Billion
> 
> USA 331 million 4.2%
> Russia 146 million 1.8%
> EU 447 million 5.7% (with new members from eastern europe)
> Total: 924 m. %11
> 
> Unless 1/10 of the world's population gives up on the desire to have absolute power over the remaining 9/10, we will go to an absolute world war.



Your assumption is wrong on all instances.

That 1/10th of world population has 75% of world economy and 84% of global military. That is absolute power.


----------



## Paul2

Apollon said:


> And how does it get the gas there? With milk cans? Russias entire infrastructure is centered to Germany. Once it stops, all this infrastructure can be written off, since Russia would lose its entire market there. To build pipelines to China and India in same capacity will take 5-10 years.
> 
> In other words, Russia is financial dead.
> 
> Btw the sanctions are not illegal and fully comply with EU law. I would not call it sanctions either, we call it special economic operation.



What's more important than the nation being financially-dead, is it being brain-dead.

Without a class of educated comprador capitalists left for Kremlin to use, there will be nobody for them to do basic government administration, but more importantly to manage their wast treasury.

Remember, you never appoint a broke man to run a treasury — and that's even more important in totalitarian states. Even in NorKo, with them having firing squad for every economic offence, theft of state money, and resources is still rampant.

If you read book, you will know that Putin himself started his "career" by stealing humanitarian aid, and such, and so will do others of his brand of people.

It will requires progressively draconian repressions to keep them in line.

The reasons totalitarians need all these Oxford educated scholars on payroll, is exactly because they can't entrust money to anybody else. Anybody else will just grab the money, raise an army, and start a powergrab on their own. That's why they need somebody smart, but docile enough not to grab the gun when you turn your back to them.

-----------------

This is why I tell that American scholars are so dumb when they think that CYL, and CPC elites are in "opposition." CPC elites are freaking afraid of CYL just leaving the regime. And that's why Xi not simply tolerates Li going around, but really, really wants him to stay.

Of course reds will never give CYL "a rifle," and they are a junior partner in the givernment, but the people with the rifle absolutely cannot do without them.


----------



## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508484288857219085



This is in Karabakh...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508459829446299648
boom


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508459328080125953
> 
> Terrible


Wow, shout out to Roman Abramovich he a real one, fck Russian regime

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## dBSPL

Apollon said:


> Your assumption is wrong on all instances.
> 
> That 1/10th of world population has 75% of world economy and 84% of global military. That is absolute power.


75% economic power is provided by domination over the remaining 9/10 of the world's population. It is for this reason that all industrial and economic breakthroughs independent of this structure have always become a source of concern in the western world.

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## Apollon

One of the best caricatures...

Russias defense minister Shoigu disappeared and people wonder what happened.

There is a famous painting of czar ivan the terrible who killed his own son in anger







And what German FAZ made of it









dBSPL said:


> 75% economic power is provided by domination over the remaining 9/10 of the world's population. It is for this reason that all industrial and economic breakthroughs independent of this structure have always become a source of concern in the western world.



This is factual wrong, do you also claim the Roman Empire had global dominantion? It was 60% of world economy all on itself.


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## mmr

Roman Abramovich and Ukrainian peace negotiators were reportedly victims of poisoning - but US casts doubt


Symptoms included red eyes, constant and painful tearing, and peeling skin on their hands and faces.




news.sky.com




Roman Abramovich and Ukrainian peace negotiators suffered symptoms of suspected 'chemical weapons' poisoning after talks​

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## dBSPL

The states that controlled 25-30% of the world's population in the 2nd world war created a global war because they could not agree on how to share the remaining 70%. Every human being on earth, whether involved in this war or not, has faced the consequences.

At the end of the war, states with 15-20% of the world's population began to establish absolute dominance over the entire world. Many states around the all corners of the world were introduced to the modern/economic slavery system.

Today, the states that control 10% of the world's population are blaming the rising factors outside themselves as rising empires, radical, extremist etc and besieging them militarily, while they also escalating a dangerous tension between themselves. The end of this path is again a global catosphere.

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## sur

Just to lighten up the mode 








3rd one is cooking oil bottles.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508403816756039687

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## Zibago

Pro Russians sources have completely different narratives 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507931773388402691

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## Apollon

dBSPL said:


> The states that controlled 25-30% of the world's population in the 2nd world war created a global war because they could not agree on how to share the remaining 70%. Every human being on earth, whether involved in this war or not, has faced the consequences.
> 
> At the end of the war, states with 15-20% of the world's population began to establish absolute dominance over the entire world. Many states around the all corners of the world were introduced to the modern/economic slavery system.
> 
> Today, the states that control 10% of the world's population are blaming the rising factors outside themselves as rising empires, radical, extremist etc and besieging them militarily, while they also escalating a dangerous tension between themselves. The end of this path is again a global catosphere.



Modern slavery system? Dude never before was living standards for humanity as high as today.

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## Tamerlane

dBSPL said:


> -Year 1950. World population 2.5 Billion
> 
> USA 151 million 6% of world population
> Soviets 180 million 7.2%
> Western Europe 305 million 12%
> Total: 636 m. 25%
> 
> -Year 2021. World population 7.8 Billion
> 
> USA 331 million 4.2%
> Russia 146 million 1.8%
> EU 447 million 5.7% (with new members from eastern europe)
> Total: 924 m. %11
> 
> Unless 1/10 of the world's population gives up on the desire to have absolute power over the remaining 9/10, we will go to an absolute world war.



You point out a very interesting reality. Ethnically European nations (including North America) with 11% of of the world population make up 53% of the world GDP. China, Japan and South Korea make up 28% of world GDP. 

Together European + Chinese = 81% of world GDP

That leaves the rest of the world to share 19%.

Frankly, I believe that people who are organized with good governments and work hard get the rewards. In spite of the fact that Europeans have been waging war on the world, their wealth mostly comes from innovation and hard work. Same with China.

Muslim countries with 1.8 billion people (22.5% of world population) have $7 trillion GDP or 8%.

Unfortunately, Muslim countries can't even unite to protect themselves, can't stop being corrupt, can't promote science and technology. They stay economically backward. So, how can we blame others?

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## thetutle

Dustom9 said:


> 70000-150000 year old history of humans walking the earth! Practically all regions/races / kingdoms get to be in power.
> Asia and Africa represents the world!
> white boys on islands should enjoy while it lasts.




Yes this is the fear of many white people. But the funny thing is, even when India one day becomes a superpower, sometime in the year 5000 A.D. The whitest possible Indians will rule the rest of the darker Indians. This has been so in the past as well, with the Mughal muslim overloads being the whitest of the Indians. 

I dont think this is good, but its kind of ironic. And says a lot about India.

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## Clutch

sammuel said:


> Wow started to watch already false on the first sentence minute 01:17 - the " Israelis are sending weapons to Ukraine "- no we are not. Not since the war started. though they asked again and again. All we sent so far was humanitarian aid and a field hospital.
> 
> Basic fact is that far right party got less than 2% of the votes in the last election, staining all Ukrainians with that is simply false.
> 
> Trust me we have our own complex historical score with Ukraine concerning WW2. Though few helped Jews and where awarded righteous among nations , many collaborated with Nazi Germany , some of the worst massacres took place on Ukrainian land and many of the prison guards in the concentration camps where in fact Ukrainians.
> 
> But what does that mean today when most Ukrainians living today , where born long after the war ?
> 
> To use the term " denazification " today, as an excuse for war , is an insult to all those who died during the holocaust.
> 
> 
> 
> ~




Israel News
Rights Groups Demand Israel Stop Arming neo-Nazis in Ukraine

Human rights activists petition the court to cease Israeli arms exports to Ukraine since some of these weapons reach neo-Nazi elements in Ukraine’s security forces
John Brown
Jul. 9, 2018
Send in e-mailSend in e-mail
An Azov militiaman with a Tavor rifle
An Azov militiaman with a Tavor rifleCredit: Azov YouTube channel screenshot
Get full access

Starting at $1 for the first month
Subscribe

A group of more than 40 human rights activists have filed a petition with the High Court of Justice, demanding the cessation of Israeli arms exports to Ukraine.

They argue that these weapons serve forces that openly espouse a neo-Nazi ideology and cite evidence that the right-wing Azov militia, whose members are part of Ukraine’s armed forces, and are supported by the country’s ministry of internal affairs, is using these weapons.
Breaking news and analyses straight to your inbox
Click here

An earlier appeal to the Defense Ministry was met with no response.

The ministry’s considerations in granting export licenses for armaments are not disclosed to the public, but it appears that the appearance of Israeli weapons in the hands of avowed neo-Nazis should be a consideration used in opposing the granting of such a license.
- Advertisment -

Nevertheless, this is not the first time in which the defense establishment is arming forces that embrace a national socialist ideology.


----------



## thetutle

Apollon said:


> Your assumption is wrong on all instances.
> 
> That 1/10th of world population has 75% of world economy and 84% of global military. That is absolute power.


Plus add to that Australia and Canada, and New Zealand and see who was what percentage of oceans and coastline and land. 

Although land does not matter as much as you can use it and develop it. 

And of the military, the strength is so overwhelming and the gap is getting larger and larger.


----------



## Apollon

Putins own speaker live on Tv admits, that Putin started this war to get rid of Russia.






The theory that Putin might be a NATO double agent gets more and more traction

@mmr @Foinikas @oberschlesier

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508463513013997580








Roman Abramovich and Ukrainian Peace Negotiators Suffer Suspected Poisoning


The Russian oligarch and at least two senior members of the Ukrainian team developed symptoms that people familiar with the matter blamed on hard-liners in Moscow who they said wanted to sabotage talks to end the war.




www.wsj.com

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## sammuel

Clutch said:


> Israel News
> Rights Groups Demand Israel Stop Arming neo-Nazis in Ukraine
> 
> Human rights activists petition the court to cease Israeli arms exports to Ukraine since some of these weapons reach neo-Nazi elements in Ukraine’s security forces
> John Brown
> Jul. 9, 2018
> Send in e-mailSend in e-mail
> An Azov militiaman with a Tavor rifle
> An Azov militiaman with a Tavor rifleCredit: Azov YouTube channel screenshot
> Get full access
> 
> Starting at $1 for the first month
> Subscribe
> 
> A group of more than 40 human rights activists have filed a petition with the High Court of Justice, demanding the cessation of Israeli arms exports to Ukraine.
> 
> They argue that these weapons serve forces that openly espouse a neo-Nazi ideology and cite evidence that the right-wing Azov militia, whose members are part of Ukraine’s armed forces, and are supported by the country’s ministry of internal affairs, is using these weapons.
> Breaking news and analyses straight to your inbox
> Click here
> 
> An earlier appeal to the Defense Ministry was met with no response.
> 
> The ministry’s considerations in granting export licenses for armaments are not disclosed to the public, but it appears that the appearance of Israeli weapons in the hands of avowed neo-Nazis should be a consideration used in opposing the granting of such a license.
> - Advertisment -
> 
> Nevertheless, this is not the first time in which the defense establishment is arming forces that embrace a national socialist ideology.



This is from 2018. Did you read what I wrote ?

How do you Justify staining all Ukrainians , when right wing parties only got 2% of the votes in the last elections ?

Le pen national front in France , got a lot more votes than that. Should Russia invade France now as well ?



~

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## dBSPL

Toyota's back!

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## coffee_cup

BTW, some "experts" here were predicting Ruble will trade like 1000 against $1 in a month or so.

Has it reached there yet?

What is today's course?


----------



## Paul2

coffee_cup said:


> BTW, some "experts" here were predicting Ruble will trade like 1000 against $1 in a month or so.
> 
> Has it reached there yet?
> 
> What is today's course?



Russian central bank has suspended fx trading, so the street price can really be anything. In Kazakhstan, and nearby countries, the street price of RUR to USD is < 0.0066 now


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508503306783674372

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508530054011236355

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## Wood

Channel 4 news verifying Ukrainian claims of taking back some territory in Kherson

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## Viet

coffee_cup said:


> BTW, some "experts" here were predicting Ruble will trade like 1000 against $1 in a month or so.
> 
> Has it reached there yet?
> 
> What is today's course?


Iran currency lost 90 percent when being sanctioned. That’s the optimistic scenario for Rubles. Just 90 percent. Probably worse. Russia is the most sanctioned country in history, more than Iran, NK and Cuba combined.

There are estimates Russia economy will lose between 15y and 30y economic progress and return to 1990 when USSR collapsed. Putin will be 100 y old when Russia recovers to prior the war.


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## Vergennes

Irpen in Kyiv has been liberated from Russian terrorists


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508532616751947778

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## coffee_cup

Viet said:


> Iran currency lost 90 percent when being sanctioned. That’s the optimistic scenario for Rubles. Just 90 percent. Probably worse. Russia is the most sanctioned country in history, more than Iran, NK and Cuba combined.
> 
> There are estimates Russia economy will lose between 15y and 30y economic progress and return to 1990 when USSR collapsed. Putin will be 100 y old when Russia recovers to prior the war.



But google is telling me as of today Ruble is trading at 96 against $.

A few weeks ago it was like 140.

Why is this happening?


----------



## nang2

coffee_cup said:


> But google is telling me as of today Ruble is trading at 96 against $.
> 
> A few weeks ago it was like 140.
> 
> Why is this happening?


Russia demands payment in Ruble for its energy from unfriendly countries. So, the market is speculating that these countries would scramble for Rubles.


----------



## jamal18

coffee_cup said:


> But google is telling me as of today Ruble is trading at 96 against $.
> 
> A few weeks ago it was like 140.
> 
> Why is this happening?


The Russian economy is far more resilient than expected. The plan to destroy the rouble has failed. Wait till the payments for gas are in roubles. The price of the rouble will be even higher.


----------



## coffee_cup

nang2 said:


> Russia demands payment in Ruble for its energy from unfriendly countries. So, the market is speculating that these countries would scramble for Rubles.



So those "experts" who were predicting Ruble falling to 1000 against $ within a month were day dreaming?


And now some of them are saying that Russia will collapse in about 6 months. Should I take them serious?


----------



## nang2

coffee_cup said:


> So those "experts" who were predicting Ruble falling to 1000 against $ within a month were day dreaming?
> 
> 
> And now some of them are saying that Russia will collapse in about 6 months. Should I take them serious?


Certainly up to you.


----------



## sur

Journalist Roman Kosarev: “It’s not Russia starting a war, it’s Russia ending the war that’s been happening here the last 8 years”​
These ppl (Ukrainians) have a policy of scorch the earth, leave nothing behind.
That explains a LOT of videos of them executing their own, blasting their own. Stuff children toys with explosive.

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## coffee_cup

nang2 said:


> Certainly up to you.



@jhungary was writing very long dissertations about how Russian economy would collapse within few months.

And there was this another dude who was saying that it is costing $20 billion a day for Russia and essentially endorsing the above mentioned narrative.

I am really confused. Am I in some parallel world right now where Russians are not slowing down and Ruble is actually gaining?






PS: Some really good signs that talks scheduled for tomorrow will make some good progress to end the war. Lets hope for the best!

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## Type59

dBSPL said:


> Toyota's back!


Technicals are best. Gaddafi forces abandoned armour against NATO and fought the most advanced armies and their proxies for 7 months.


----------



## Apollon

coffee_cup said:


> BTW, some "experts" here were predicting Ruble will trade like 1000 against $1 in a month or so.
> 
> Has it reached there yet?
> 
> What is today's course?



Today course is 0. Ruble cant be traded anywhere. Its only paper left.

Ask yourself why whealthy russians run away from russia now in the hundredthousands. That tells you tze value of ruble.



jamal18 said:


> The Russian economy is far more resilient than expected. The plan to destroy the rouble has failed. Wait till the payments for gas are in roubles. The price of the rouble will be even higher.



Germany and entire G7 already said they wont pay in ruble.


----------



## coffee_cup

Apollon said:


> Today course is 0. Ruble cant be traded anywhere. Its only paper left.
> 
> Ask yourself why whealthy russians run away from russia now in the hundredthousands. That tells you tze value of ruble.



Yes but *IF* I were to buy Ruble or any commodities which are traded in Ruble, then I would need it. Just like Germany might soon need it. In that case should we expect to get 1200 Rubles for a EURO? 

I guess not.


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## Apollon

coffee_cup said:


> @jhungary was writing very long dissertations about how Russian economy would collapse within few months.
> 
> And there was this another dude who was saying that it is costing $20 billion a day for Russia and essentially endorsing the above mentioned narrative.
> 
> I am really confused. Am I in some parallel world right now where Russians are not slowing down and Ruble is actually gaining?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS: Some really good signs that talks scheduled for tomorrow will make some good progress to end the war. Lets hope for the best!



Talks will change nothing. It was already made clear sanctions will remain on Russia as long Putin stays in charge. Papers signed by him are worthless anyways. You can expect complete ssnctions on russia for at least a decade

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## thetutle

sammuel said:


> This is from 2018. Did you read what I wrote ?
> 
> How do you Justify staining all Ukrainians , when right wing parties only got 2% of the votes in the last elections ?
> 
> Le pen national front in France , got a lot more votes than that. Should Russia invade France now as well ?
> 
> 
> 
> ~


He can't justify it. The good news for you Israelis is that while he is against Ukraine, he supports you Israelis having a country and de-nazifying Palestine, because as we all know 0.000001% of Palestinians were nazis and the Palestinian grand mufti of Jerusalem was very friendly with hitler.

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## Viet

coffee_cup said:


> But google is telling me as of today Ruble is trading at 96 against $.
> 
> A few weeks ago it was like 140.
> 
> Why is this happening?


That’s not market price. Putin keeps rubles artificial high. That is very costly because he has to sell central bank gold reserves, In the international markets Russia most valuable companies Gazprom, Sberbank, etc are just penny or worthless in London, Russia government bonds are 30 cent per dollar.
That’s worse than Sri Lanka bonds. That tells you something.








Gazprom, Lukoil and Sberbank are now penny stocks as Russian companies collapse in London


Russian natural gas giant Gazprom, oil producer Lukoil and leading bank Sberbank are all penny stocks based on their trading on the London Stock Exchange, as...




www.marketwatch.com


----------



## Apollon

coffee_cup said:


> Yes but *IF* I were to buy Ruble or any commodities which are traded in Ruble, then I would need it. Just like Germany might soon need it. In that case should we expect to get 1200 Rubles for a EURO?
> 
> I guess not.



Germany already said it will not pay anything in ruble. Ruble already is worthless since you can buy nothing from it anywhere.


----------



## mmr

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508463513013997580
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roman Abramovich and Ukrainian Peace Negotiators Suffer Suspected Poisoning
> 
> 
> The Russian oligarch and at least two senior members of the Ukrainian team developed symptoms that people familiar with the matter blamed on hard-liners in Moscow who they said wanted to sabotage talks to end the war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wsj.com


He was one of the nice one. Uk made mistake i guess force him to return.

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## Ich

oberschlesier said:


> Russia is speculating on currency and commodities market  Sending messages: "We want payment in rubles", "We will cut Gas", "We will definatelly cut Gas", "Our hand is already on the valve" lol, and the market is fluctuating in short term.
> 
> If they would like to cut the Gas, they would already did it.



I read that at april 1st it will be changed to Rubel and then there will be a 7 day timeframe for the EU countries to pay the price in Rubel. If not, then gas delivery will stop.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508490884794441728
We are soldiers from Donbas - Ordinary workers, children, energy workers who were sent to Russia by force.
- We are civilians
- Some as young as 18
- We're all fucked
- What are we even doing here?
- Many of us have been killed.
- We have been sent to the Sumy region in Ukraine
-There is a video on youtube of our friends being taken prisoners-of-war
- They cheated us ... we are fucked
- Know the truth! The Russian Ministry of Defense has no idea that we have been sent here
- They took us illegally to Russia, gave us weapons but no documents, nothing!
Take us back home to Donbas! 
- They gave us AK47s against MLRS, artillery & mortars.
- Please spread this message 
- We don’t fire these AK47s 
- Yenakiyevo is here, Gorlovka is here, the whole DNR is here, Shakhtiorsk, Torez & Snezhnoye - They took us all and said go and die
- This is 119th Division, 4th Battalion

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## mmr

Apollon said:


> Today course is 0. Ruble cant be traded anywhere. Its only paper left.
> 
> Ask yourself why whealthy russians run away from russia now in the hundredthousands. That tells you tze value of ruble.
> 
> 
> 
> Germany and entire G7 already said they wont pay in ruble.


the way its going it will be hard choice after few months...should we buy toilet paper or use ruble..which will cost less?

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## Apollon

Another SU35 bites the dust






I cant remember any western military to lose aircrafts on such high numbers as vlad does.

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## coffee_cup

Apollon said:


> Germany already said it will not pay anything in ruble. Ruble already is worthless since you can buy nothing from it anywhere.



Alright. Guess, we'll have to wait for few more weeks/months and see what happens. 



Ich said:


> I read that at april 1st it will be changed to Rubel and then there will be a 7 day timeframe for the EU countries to pay the price in Rubel. If not, then gas delivery will stop.



But here are some guys who say toilet paper is more worth than the Ruble and there is no way Germany or any other country would pay for Gas in Rubles.

I think for us mere mortals, there is no other option but to wait and see...


----------



## Apollon

Ich said:


> I read that at april 1st it will be changed to Rubel and then there will be a 7 day timeframe for the EU countries to pay the price in Rubel. If not, then gas delivery will stop.



They wont pay in ruble. So lets stop it. It was aleady told Russia when its stopped, it will never open again. Im all for stopping it.

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## Vergennes

Vergennes said:


> Putin sending kids to the slaughterhouse in Ukraine
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508402233746071555




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508207638894596104

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## Apollon

coffee_cup said:


> Alright. Guess, we'll have to wait for few more weeks/months and see what happens.
> 
> 
> 
> But here are some guys who say toilet paper is more worth than the Ruble and there is no way Germany or any other country would pay for Gas in Rubles.
> 
> I think for us mere mortals, there is no other option but to wait and see...



Putin was wrong with all plans he had. He failes in this as well. As i said, Germany already said it will not pay ruble. And entire EU said so as well and G7 too.

Putin was told, when Russia stops the pipelines, they will never open again. So Putin knows he kills only income he has left permanently.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508460291595591695

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## Type59

Apollon said:


> Another SU35 bites the dust
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cant remember any western military to lose aircrafts on such high numbers as vlad does.



Vietnam, korea.... Yom Kippur war Israel lost many.


----------



## coffee_cup

Apollon said:


> They wont pay in ruble. So lets stop it. It was aleady told Russia when its stopped, it will never open again. Im all for stopping it.





Apollon said:


> Putin was wrong with all plans he had. He failes in this as well. As i said, Germany already said it will not pay ruble. And entire EU said so as well and G7 too.
> 
> Putin was told, when Russia stops the pipelines, they will never open again. So Putin knows he kills only income he has left permanently.



There is a news circulating that Central Bank of Vatican has bought 10 million Euro worth Rubles today and paid for the gas with that.

Apparently you can still buy it and there is demand. You wanna take your statement back?


----------



## Tamerlane

coffee_cup said:


> There is a news circulating that Central Bank of Vatican has bought 10 million Euro worth Rubles today and paid for the gas with that.
> 
> Apparently you can still buy it and there is demand. You wanna take your statement back?



The Ruble went down, but is coming back up pretty quickly.

1 USD = 95.1742 RUB Mar 28, 2022


----------



## coffee_cup

Tamerlane said:


> The Ruble went down, but is coming back up pretty quickly.
> 
> 1 USD = 95.1742 RUB Mar 28, 2022
> 
> View attachment 828273



Yes this is what really surprised me.

I was expecting to see it at least 200 against $ today when I just randomly checked because some "experts" here were VERY convinced about that and were betting on it.

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## Apollon

coffee_cup said:


> There is a news circulating that Central Bank of Vatican has bought 10 million Euro worth Rubles today and paid for the gas with that.
> 
> Apparently you can still buy it and there is demand. You wanna take your statement back?



The vatican doesnt even use gas. 

So no, i dont take my statement back. The goal is to destroy russias economy. And no EU nation or G7 nation will pay in ruble. The chancellor said this in TV. So its decided

And again, the moment russia closes the pipeline it will never open again.

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## Ich

Apollon said:


> They wont pay in ruble. So lets stop it. It was aleady told Russia when its stopped, it will never open again. Im all for stopping it.



Well, at least in Germany it will be a horrible if gas stops. Some days ago the Bahn AG stoppt all freight trains for hours cause there was not enough energy in the net for them 









Nicht genug Strom bei der Deutschen Bahn - Güterzüge müssen stehen bleiben - Blackout News


Nicht genug Strom bei der Deutschen Bahn - Güterzüge müssen stehen bleiben. Ursache noch nicht endgültig geklärt.




blackout-news.de





The gas power stations in Germany provide 15% of the energy. So without gas no energy. Without energy no moving fright trains. Without fright trains economy crashs cause the gasoline prices are also sky rocket and there is already less room for more trucks to deliver (maybe you know, most greater companies use "just in time" production with tools like "Kanban" ect.).

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## nang2

Apollon said:


> The vatican doesnt even use gas.
> 
> So no, i dont take my statement back. The goal is to destroy russias economy. And no EU nation or G7 nation will pay in ruble. The chancellor said this in TV. So its decided
> 
> And again, the moment russia closes the pipeline it will never open again.


Let's start a pool.


----------



## Apollon

coffee_cup said:


> Yes this is what really surprised me.
> 
> I was expecting to see it at least 200 against $ today when I just randomly checked because some "experts" here were VERY convinced about that and were betting on it.



You do realize that this is the russian central bank chart, right?

The ruble is completly value less in Europe. As is their stockmarket.

They basicly lost 100%


----------



## nang2

Apollon said:


> You do realize that this is the russian central bank chart, right?
> 
> The ruble is completly value less in Europe. As is their stockmarket.
> 
> They basicly lost 100%


Is it?




__





Russian Ruble to US Dollar Exchange Rate Chart | Xe


RUB to USD currency chart. XE’s free live currency conversion chart for Russian Ruble to US Dollar allows you to pair exchange rate history for up to 10 years.




www.xe.com




or








RUB/USD (RUBUSD=X) Live Rate, Chart & News - Yahoo Finance


Find the latest RUB/USD (RUBUSD=X) currency exchange rate, plus historical data, charts, relevant news and more




finance.yahoo.com


----------



## Apollon

Ich said:


> Well, at least in Germany it will be a horrible if gas stops. Some days ago the Bahn AG stoppt all freight trains for hours cause there was not enough energy in the net for them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nicht genug Strom bei der Deutschen Bahn - Güterzüge müssen stehen bleiben - Blackout News
> 
> 
> Nicht genug Strom bei der Deutschen Bahn - Güterzüge müssen stehen bleiben. Ursache noch nicht endgültig geklärt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blackout-news.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The gas power stations in Germany provide 15% of the energy. So without gas no energy. Without energy no moving fright trains. Without fright trains economy crashs cause the gasoline prices are also sky rocket and there is already less room for more trucks to deliver (maybe you know, most greater companies use "just in time" production with tools like "Kanban" ect.).



3% recession is absolute worth it. Do you think Churchill looked on bullshit like this when declaring war on Hitler.

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## Type59

Maripul has effectively been captured according to CNN. Various pro Moscow sources say mopping up of remnants is ongoing.

How many highly trained Ukrainian forces were defending city. I heard 14,000?

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## nang2

Apollon said:


> 3% recession is absolute worth it. Do you think Churchill looked on bullshit like this when declaring war on Hitler.


I think you are much better than many politicians. They want to shed somebody else's blood. You just want to shed somebody else's money.

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## Trango Towers

Check out USD vs rubble rate 96.00 loool dollar is weakening.


----------



## Viet

coffee_cup said:


> Yes but *IF* I were to buy Ruble or any commodities which are traded in Ruble, then I would need it. Just like Germany might soon need it. In that case should we expect to get 1200 Rubles for a EURO?
> 
> I guess not.


To get the rubles you must exchange the money. Practically contacting Russia central bank. However the Russia central bank is under total sanction. Even if anyone in Germany is willing to pay in rubles it’s impossible to get rubles to pay the bill. It’s strictly forbidden. You will be arrested immediately and put to prison.


----------



## Apollon

nang2 said:


> I think you are much better than many politicians. They just want to shed somebody else's blood. You just want to shed somebody else's money.



No, i want live free and know its better to slaughter a pig early before it stands in your living room.


----------



## nang2

Apollon said:


> No, i want live free and know its better to slaughter a pig early before it stands in your living room.


Sure. I agree with you 100% and would applaud you to embark on the journey to achieve that. Just don't assume everyone else that would suffer in the process also agree with you.

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## coffee_cup

Apollon said:


> No, i want live free and know its better to slaughter a pig early before it stands in your living room.



You might have a lot of Solar Panel powered batteries at home...May be a windmill? Perhaps ground thermal?

You seem not to worry about energy cuts at all. The rest is not so lucky, :- (


----------



## letsrock

Apollon said:


> 3% recession is absolute worth it. Do you think Churchill looked on bullshit like this when declaring war on Hitler.


but you seem fixated on ruble value.


----------



## Ich

Apollon said:


> 3% recession is absolute worth it.



From where do you have the 3%?


----------



## nang2

Ich said:


> From where do you have the 3%?


Probably that is his limit. 3.1% would be a big no-no.

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## letsrock

Viet said:


> To get the rubles you must exchange the money. Practically contacting Russia central bank. However the Russia central bank is under total sanction. Even if anyone in Germany is willing to pay in rubles it’s impossible to get rubles to pay the bill. It’s strictly forbidden. You will be arrested immediately and put to prison.



You will be imprisoned for trying to get rubles and buy some gas to keep your house warm in winter ? sound like the freedom @Apollon craves



nang2 said:


> Probably that is his limit. 3.1% would be a big no-no.


hahaha ..the price for his freedom. Freedom is ok if the damage is within 3%.


----------



## coffee_cup

nang2 said:


> Probably that is his limit. 3.1% would be a big no-no.



....


----------



## jamal18

G7 reject Russia's demand to be paid in roubles for their gas- German energy minister.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508426365531480073
Let them burn cake....

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508517337443540994

Reactions: Like Like:
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1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508560168426082313

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Viet said:


> To get the rubles you must exchange the money. Practically contacting Russia central bank. However the Russia central bank is under total sanction. Even if anyone in Germany is willing to pay in rubles it’s impossible to get rubles to pay the bill. It’s strictly forbidden. You will be arrested immediately and put to prison.




The German central bank needs to join in the recently announced SPFS (System for Transfer of Financial Messages). That way, they can do business with the Russian central bank. I think this is how the Russians intend to deal with the "unfriendly" countries" who sanction them.

For Russia's "friendly" countries, they'll need to sign up with China's Cross-Border Interbank Payment System (CIPS) and/or SPFS. They have either or both options.

In essence, Russia's efforts here is to boycott the SWIFT financial system; and for any entity or country that is doing business with them should either use the SPFS and/or CHIPS. This is what the war in Ukraine is all about, and this is how both Russia and China intend to beat the Western-dominated sanctions through the SWIFT system.

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## Ich

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The German central bank needs to join in the recently announced SPFS (System for Transfer of Financial Messages). That way, they can do business with the Russian central bank. I think this is how the Russians intend to deal with the "unfairly countries" who sanction them.
> 
> For Russia's "friendly" countries, they'll need to sign up with China's Cross-Border Interbank Payment System (CIPS) and/or SPFS. They have either or both options.
> 
> In essence, Russia's efforts here is to boycott the SWIFT financial system; and for any entity or country that is doing business with them should either use the SPFS and/or CHIPS. This is what the war in Ukraine is all about, and this is how both Russia and China intend to beat the Western-dominated sanctions through the SWIFT system.



The problem is that the german central bank isnt in the position to do that. The EZB has taken over and is the sole player in the EU.

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## FairAndUnbiased

coffee_cup said:


> @jhungary was writing very long dissertations about how Russian economy would collapse within few months.
> 
> And there was this another dude who was saying that it is costing $20 billion a day for Russia and essentially endorsing the above mentioned narrative.
> 
> I am really confused. Am I in some parallel world right now where Russians are not slowing down and Ruble is actually gaining?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS: Some really good signs that talks scheduled for tomorrow will make some good progress to end the war. Lets hope for the best!


He also said that there were "thousands" of transformer substations in a country so you can't disable the grid without hitting power plants.

He is apparently unaware of the existence of step up substations and transmission substations.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508473619105685506

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Tamerlane

Apollon said:


> 3% recession is absolute worth it. Do you think Churchill looked on bullshit like this when declaring war on Hitler.



No, Churchill didn't worry about the consequences. Once the Germans were finished with them the sun set on the British Empire pretty quickly, and they were reduced to a has-been.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508548335514226689


----------



## Clutch

sammuel said:


> This is from 2018. Did you read what I wrote ?
> 
> How do you Justify staining all Ukrainians , when right wing parties only got 2% of the votes in the last elections ?
> 
> Le pen national front in France , got a lot more votes than that. Should Russia invade France now as well ?
> 
> 
> 
> ~



ISIS was also from 2018.... I guess no longer discussion worthy?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508571249714376713

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508512965435310087


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508569968203509761

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jamal18

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508512965435310087


A lot of the fighting in the east seems to have been carried out by the Dontesk and Luganz forces. They seem to be very competent.

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## oberschlesier

Ich said:


> I read that at april 1st it will be changed to Rubel and then there will be a 7 day timeframe for the EU countries to pay the price in Rubel. If not, then gas delivery will stop.


Speculation. You send this message to the market, Rubel values rises, you can buy hard currency/imports cheaper and show how determinated you are. Economicly this does not change anything. Gasprom right now gets EURO for Gas and needs to exchange 90% of it into Rubel in Russia. It`s to force EU to break their own sanctions.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508569437359812612

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ich

oberschlesier said:


> Speculation. You send this message to the market, Rubel values rises, you can buy hard currency/imports cheaper and show how determinated you are. Economicly this does not change anything. Gasprom right now gets EURO for Gas and needs to exchange 90% of it into Rubel in Russia. It`s to force EU to break their own sanctions.



No, not speculation. If you understand russian you can hear it here in an interview with Wladimir Tschischow. Alternativ you can translate the german short version text.





__





Ständiger EU-Vertreter Russlands: Situation mit Gashahn noch nicht katastrophal


Aus dem Interview im russischen Fernsehen: Der ständige Vertreter Russlands bei der EU Wladimir Tschischow über die Folgen der Umstellung au...




www.russland.jetzt


----------



## Wood

Interview with Turkey's chief adviser to their President. He explains about the conditions from Putin for negotiation and the realization that it may not fly


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

MoD Russia, [3/28/2022 3:26 PM]
[ Photo ]
🗓 Top News Today

▫️* Kalibr high-precision sea-based cruise missiles destroyed large ammunition depots near Ushomir and Veselovka, Zhytomir Region.

▫️ Ukrainian Mi-8 helicopter, which was heading for the emergency evacuation of the Azov national battalion commanders who had abandoned their subordinates, has been shot down near Mariupol.

▫️ Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation published footage of destruction of Ukrainian Grad MLRS systems firing from camouflaged positions.*

▫️Russian servicemen delivered more than 20 tonnes of humanitarian cargo for Dymer’ residents in Kiev Region.

▫️Over the past day, the Russian Armed Forces, without the participation of the Ukrainian authorities, evacuated 12,825 people to Russia from dangerous areas of Ukraine, Donetsk and Lugansk people's republics, 2,045 of them children, and since the beginning of the special military operation, 469,683 people have already been evacuated, of which 97,345 are children.

#Russia #Ukraine #Briefing 
@mod_russia_en

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508576555638968326

Reactions: Love Love:
1


----------



## thetutle

Paul2 said:


> Russian central bank has suspended fx trading, so the street price can really be anything. In Kazakhstan, and nearby countries, the street price of RUR to USD is < 0.0066 now


Wouldn't they use the spot price plus extra ~3% spread?


----------



## oberschlesier

Ich said:


> No, not speculation. If you understand russian you can hear it here in an interview with Wladimir Tschischow. Alternativ you can translate the german short version text.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ständiger EU-Vertreter Russlands: Situation mit Gashahn noch nicht katastrophal
> 
> 
> Aus dem Interview im russischen Fernsehen: Der ständige Vertreter Russlands bei der EU Wladimir Tschischow über die Folgen der Umstellung au...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.russland.jetzt


I read it in German. Specultation, means sending messages and saying things like this to the market, this is what I meant. If this in reality going to happen - Let`s see, if Russia wantes to put sanction on itself.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508533335605317638

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508514890729852944


----------



## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508484288857219085



That's the second time you're posting this tweet,and it is from karabakh...


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> That's the second time you're posting this tweet,and it is from karabakh...




It is a typo issue with my mouse from Twiiter, but I've already fixed it. It just happens you're a slow guy who jumped too quickly to point it out without checking it again.

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## jhungary

jamahir said:


> So you have changed from your previous position where you demanded that Putin's wife and children be arrested in Europe because they have to answer for his "crimes" and also should be used as bargaining tools ?
> 
> 
> 
> In English - White House version 2.0 Beta ?


Well, if ISIS "*CLAIMED*" responsibility on a bombing, doesn't it means that ISIS "*ADMITTED*" to be behind the bombing?

Dude, it's simple English..........



coffee_cup said:


> @jhungary was writing very long dissertations about how Russian economy would collapse within few months.
> 
> And there was this another dude who was saying that it is costing $20 billion a day for Russia and essentially endorsing the above mentioned narrative.
> 
> I am really confused. Am I in some parallel world right now where Russians are not slowing down and Ruble is actually gaining?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS: Some really good signs that talks scheduled for tomorrow will make some good progress to end the war. Lets hope for the best!


First of all, you do know Russia economy is a 1.6 trillion economy (in 2020), with government expense last reported as 38% GDP in 2020 (For those who don't own a calculator, it's 608 billions dollar)





__





List of countries by government spending as percentage of GDP - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





With oil and gas revenue valued at roughly 1.5 billions a day, if the West did not stop the buying of Russian oil and gas (US, Canada, UK and Australia already stopped buying) you are talking about somewhat 547 billions.. And then they don't have a war going on before. And that is if Russia nationalise 100% of the profit from selling oil and gas. Russia don't own the company that drill oil and gas...It's private own by those Oligarch.

The next best Russian export is Wheat, less than 7 billions market a year.

Just because you have some magical believe, it would not magically balance the balance sheet, you are looking at 50 or so billion in the red, and nobody is willing to lend money, last counted, even the Chinese frozen loan to Russian. Where are you going to get that 50 billions? And then there are already 43 billions debt to settle, and they don't take Rouble.

On the other hand, Rouble rebounded because Russia stop trading foreign currency and increased interest rate (Which draw Rouble back into central bank because you cannot sell it and you are encourage to deposit to it) in Financial term, this is a "Freeze" but you cannot freeze it for long because you are essentially taking Rouble out of the market, that does not mean people are not going to need it to trade or buy stuff.

Also, Rouble did not rebounded back to the original level (Today at 1: 0.0096, it was 1: 0.012 before the war) even with this measure, which you don't need a economy degree to know this is serious, because those measure are supposed to support the currency, and they are still somewhere 20% below the value of USD before the war. That mean those measure are not enough to take it back to the level, and the world is expecting another Rouble drop since the west also sanctioned Russian gold, which is the last thing Russia can trade with foreign currency.

What do you expect from yahoo who know nothing about economy.....

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----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508582648901480453

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508582885963583499

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508579444340019200


----------



## LeGenD

northeast said:


> Russia will stop natural gas supply to europe if it's not paid in ruble for sure,russia and europe will both suffer. Putin is not bluffing.



USA and Nigeria have offered to substitute Russia in this matter.

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508581735121969152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508555087135789062

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508534409724669959

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508492211591258119


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508502639373336577

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506320166715502593

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508514202939715587

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508595721255079938


----------



## LeGenD

sur said:


> There are few things wrong here:
> 
> (1) *Assumption that Nazi = Jew hatred, is incorrect*. Despite holocaust being a big part of Nazi'ism, it wasn't just about hating/killing Jews. There was more to it. Like strong believe that you are genetically superior to another race and have right to take over that inferior race. Many Jews hold this concept so are Nazi despite being Jew. There were Jews who collaborated with Hitler. I have seen Pakistanis on this forum talking of their genetic superiority over Indians, so they are also sort of ill with Nazi'ism.
> 
> (2) Term used often is new/neo-Nazi (as opposed to Nazi) for reason above. Your own *ADL wants to educates on that, "supremacist"*. So when Rus claims neo-Nazi in UA, *Rus is NOT talking about Jew hatred ONLY*, they are talking *more about hatred of Rusi to a Nazi-level [*a level where neoNazi Ukrainians want to exterminate anyone with Rusi connection. West is being neo-Nazi too these days, in that they banned Rusi athlete, opera singer, letter "Z", businessmen, etc etc*]*. And to a level where UA behaves like Nazis towards Rusi speaking population, or Roma gypsies, etc. *Though Jew hatred also exists in UA* as you will see below.
> 
> (3) Many countries agreed that there was a neo-Nazi problem in UA. So BBC is the one who is lying here.
> 
> (4) BBC piece above is lies & twisting and backtracking from it's own previous coverage of UA. So* people shouldn't really "educate" themselves with lies*.
> 
> (5) For argument sake, if that piece had truth in it, then *you* [_assuming you are Jewish?_] *wouldn't feel bad if Ukrainians doing things like below, right?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(1) *Nazi ≠ Jew hatred​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official Government of UA*'s Rusi hatred *against children* to Nazi-level:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504110996067176456
> 
> UA soldiers' Nazi-level hatred towards their own countrymen in *Donbass, "They should ALL be destroyed"*:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505442209667059716
> 
> Own countrypeople in* Donbass are useless, must be EXTERMINATED*, Nazi-level hatred on *UA's "Hromadske" TV* channel:
> View attachment 828186
> 
> 
> *Official Government of UA*'s *genetic superiority complex* over Rusi (link):
> View attachment 828175
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *TV channel of UA* - Nazi-level hate towards Rusi *children*:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503777020190339082
> 
> 
> Genetically inferior Roma gypsy's hatred to a Nazi-level:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Attacked and abandoned: Ukraine’s forgotten Roma
> 
> 
> In a country which suffered terribly at the hands of the Nazis during World War II, pogroms against an ethnic minority have somehow become commonplace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whole thread on street justice - emanates from Nazi-like mentality:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505582698710061078
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(2) It's neo-Nazi to be exact*, not just those Jew haters*:*​*(**src**)*
> *
> View attachment 828164
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(3)* Many countries indicated neo-Nazi problem in UA:​
> Americans (link):
> White Racially Motivated = *WRM*
> View attachment 828174
> 
> NYT:
> View attachment 828178
> 
> 
> 
> Congressman opposed:
> View attachment 828179
> 
> 
> But Pentagon supported neo-Nazis:
> View attachment 828180
> 
> 
> 
> Canadians (link):
> View attachment 828182
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainians themselves under pressure from *Australians *after mosque shooting:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine's Secret Service Busts Neo-Nazi Cell Inspired By Christchurch Shooter
> 
> 
> The group was printing extremist literature and stockpiling guns, explosive devices and Nazi paraphernalia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.vice.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> French and Brazalians (link):
> *
> View attachment 828177
> *
> 
> 
> Russians:
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/1508549488528568335
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainians:
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/r_u_vid/status/1508370442863534083
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(4)* BBC contradict themselves if they claim now that neo-Nazis in UA is non-issue:​
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/Vasilisa_Larina/status/1508148045174775810
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 828223
> 
> View attachment 828226
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(5)* if you still believe that UA Nazi'ism is not real, then hopefully you & other Jews wouldn't mind the following, :​
> *(**Tweet#1**) «The Jew is crying and says: "Please don't hit me", in the garden, in the quiet corner, a gallows is waiting for him (the Jew)»
> (**Tweet#2**)* Catholic mass and tribute to the Ukrainian Nazi Vasyl Ivahiv, Nazi collaborator of the OUN-UPA.
> Go through rest of this tweet-thread also:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 828163
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 828153
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 828155
> 
> 
> (src)
> View attachment 828156
> 
> 
> (src) In UA police:
> View attachment 828167
> 
> 
> Ukrainians revering Hitler:
> View attachment 828168
> 
> 
> At UA government level:
> View attachment 828185
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ukrainian destroying* grave marked with star of David, poster says it's *grave of Holocaust victim*:
> Watch the whole tweet-thread for more samples:
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/DaniMayakovski/status/1497671602523279362



This information should be double-checked.









The five disinformation narratives about the war in Ukraine


Since February 24, 2022, when Russia started its military attack against Ukraine, disinformation about the ongoing conflict started to grow all over Europe (and beyond).




edmo.eu

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508382472522076167

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508522283891322880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508576073528877059

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508577843734843392

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

__





Tesla boss Elon Musk says, 'We cannot let Putin take over Ukraine. This is crazy' - Business Insider India


SpaceX and Tesla CEO Elon Musk said the world cannot let Russian President Vladimir Putin win in Ukraine because if he can get away with it, this will be a




www.businessinsider.in








> On Russian threats to his own satellites, he said that if they attempt to take out Starlink, this is not easy because there are 2,000 satellites.
> 
> "That means a lot of anti-satellite missiles. I hope we do not have to put this to a test, but I think we can launch satellites faster than they can launch anti-satellites missiles," Musk noted.



Musk says that space X can launch satellites faster than Russia can launch anti satellite missiles

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508420032245776386

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508348496306393088
The list of "unfriendly countries" includes: 


European Union 🇪🇺

Australia

Albania🇦🇱

Andorra 🇦🇩

Canada 🇨🇦

Great Britain 🇬🇧

Iceland 🇮🇸

Liechtenstein 🇱🇮

Micronesia 🇫🇲

Monaco 🇲🇨

New Zealand 🇳🇿

Norway 🇳🇴

Republic of Korea 🇰🇷

San Marino 🇸🇲

North Macedonia 🇲🇰

Singapore 🇸🇬

USA 🇺🇸

Taiwan 🇹🇼

Ukraine 🇺🇦

Montenegro 🇲🇪

Switzerland 🇨🇭

Japan 🇯🇵


https://www.ragex.co/post/the-list-...countries-that-will-have-to-pay-in-rubles-for



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508221695299145742

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508468821287391233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508523986908590087

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508401083185573888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508456006250074113

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508548335514226689


Yeah that rocket did nothing to the tank.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508547115156492295

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508558761899835393


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508574942887137281

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508561005013577733

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Paul2

thetutle said:


> Wouldn't they use the spot price plus extra ~3% spread?



There is no spot price now. Russian central bank's rate is all, but fiction. Street price is the de facto real market price.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508567281802092552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508558612666404871

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508559691655307271


----------



## thetutle

Paul2 said:


> There is no spot price now. Russian central bank's rate is all, but fiction. Street price is the de facto real market price.



I am sure Chinese firms trade with russia and use that price as the exchange rate.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508552732982001671

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508555405579988992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508548832740745221


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508384767628263426

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508024342864711683

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508456867097313287

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508446218267115526

Reactions: Like Like:
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## PakFactor

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508384767628263426
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508024342864711683
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508456867097313287
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508446218267115526



@Meengla 

At this moment I will advise you to keep dry powder (money) ready once the time comes then deploy it.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

Kadyrov's forces are bravely fighting ..The video clearly shows the photographer shouting "Come on, let's start, I'm shooting", and Kadyrov's soldiers, looking into the camera, ran to shoot the destroyed house..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508501964992225292

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508518460405526530


----------



## A1Kaid

Vergennes said:


> Russians themselves admitted majority of the soldiers sent to Ukraine were mostly made up of contract soldiers,"some conscripts" ended up in Ukraine but they recalled them back home and are investigating. Are you calling russian liars ?
> 
> Kadyrov's lapdogs are considered as "elite troops" because Russians consider them as well equipped,well trained and "experts in urban warfare" the reason they are using them in places like Mariupol.
> 
> You do know that "Spetsnaz" is a vast generic term to designate Russian special forces ?
> 
> Rosgvardia (who themselves have Spetsnaz units) were sent into the frontlines when they are supposed to be an occupation force supposed to supress the local civilian pop,I guess you missed that long convoy that was destroyed in Kharkiv few weeks ago or in Kherson ? (Talk about incompetence)
> 
> "Russia doesn't send its best troops". That the most BS argument I've ever seen. Is that your only argument to justify Russia's pathetic performance in Ukraine ? Are you considering the 1st guards tank army and the 4th guards tank divisionk,the 31st guards air assault brigade as "not the best Russia has" ? All those VDV who died pathetically in places like Irpen aren't Russia's best ?
> 
> You're supposed to be a "think tank" how cannot you see Russia's blatant incompetence and corruption which led to its poor performance in Ukraine ? No combined arms operations,severe lack of communication between different units and services (use of non secure communications),poor battle management,poor logistics.... So much that they have to send generals on frontlines)
> 
> And don't tell me "muh they don't use full force they care about civilians". My @ss.
> 
> Of course you seem to be one who fell for Kremlin's myth around the Russian armed forces but turns out their armed forces are trash,of course it would be hard for you to admit it.




Anyone here who thinks Rosgvardia are elite Russian troops is downright ignorant. They aren't even conventional troops, which proves they aren't sending their best troops in Phase 1. Yes they've used some VDV (the only credible point you have but VDV role has been minor), Rosgvardia, and Chechen troops and guess what? They now *control 50%+ of Ukraine*. Ukrainian military is getting destroyed no matter what Twitter tells you, they've had some successes but they have virtually lost half their country.

Nobody is arguing Russia's invasion is flawless but they have captured 50%+ of Ukraine, that with a force of mostly conscripts and Chechens. The reality is Russia is not using their best military force in Phase 1 of the invasion. Recently on CNN one military analyst said* 25-30% of Russia's invading force are conscripts*, another 1/3 are Kadryov's Chechen troops, the rest being a mix of regular military units and paramilitary.

1st Guard tank army is not being used in Ukraine (they've only been "activated") although they are one of Russia's best. But you just proved my point, *the invading force was basically cannon fodder.* It does seem however Russia wants to send more trained military units to occupy and expand into Ukraine for Phase 2. Russia cannot afford to lose its best units (especially over Ukraine) in the event they have a conflict with NATO, if they lose the ability to fight conventionally the only real option they have is nuclear.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507359373336715266

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508563810558390275


----------



## CrazyZ

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508581735121969152
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508555087135789062
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508534409724669959
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508492211591258119


Tank was not destroyed by the NLAW. Operator didn't hit a good spot.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508412121272442882

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508438581039312896


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508123752873304069


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508542170801885185


CrazyZ said:


> Tank was not destroyed by the NLAW. Operator didn't hit a good spot.


Apparently the shot was too close and the NLAW didn't have time to arm fully..

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508400054083665932

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508580498905391111

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508514043757219841

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508628895138029570


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508632912534589444

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508511619432787972

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508509701423706126

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508580284484136962


----------



## Apollon

nang2 said:


> Sure. I agree with you 100% and would applaud you to embark on the journey to achieve that. Just don't assume everyone else that would suffer in the process also agree with you.



Our governments actually do what i fully support. Of course you have a moscow 5th column in evry country but in europe they got mostly squashed



Ich said:


> From where do you have the 3%?




Economic studies regarding energy cuts

https://www.econtribute.de › ...PDF
What if? The Economic Effects for Germany of a Stop of Energy Imports from Russia - Econtribute

Thats a small price to pay to crush putin


----------



## DF41

sammuel said:


> This is from 2018. Did you read what I wrote ?
> 
> How do you Justify staining all Ukrainians , when right wing parties only got 2% of the votes in the last elections ?
> 
> Le pen national front in France , got a lot more votes than that. Should Russia invade France now as well ?
> 
> 
> 
> ~


You working on that toothbrush moustache yet? 

A good model for you to emulate in solidarity with Azov rabble .

They got so many posters of him over their bed , on their walls and in their kindergartens






Poster: "Youth Serves the Leader: All 10-Year-Olds into the [Hitler Youth]"​


----------



## sammuel

DF41 said:


> You working on that toothbrush moustache yet?
> 
> A good model for you to emulate in solidarity with Azov rabble .
> 
> They got so many posters of him over their bed , on their walls and in their kindergartens
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poster: "Youth Serves the Leader: All 10-Year-Olds into the [Hitler Youth]"​



So you cant actually answer my question so you posted a poster of Hitler instead ?

I ask again :

How do you Justify staining all Ukrainians , when right wing parties only got 2% of the votes in the last elections ?

Le pen national front in France , got a lot more votes than that. Should Russia invade France now as well ?

~


----------



## DF41

DF41 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508212871053905920
> For those that love listening to Horst Wessel Lied in public or in their closet, your favourite symbol done by your favourite Azov tribesmen that you all adored and sing hosannas to






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508466863075999757

Reactions: Angry Angry:
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## DF41

coffee_cup said:


> Yes this is what really surprised me.
> 
> I was expecting to see it at least 200 against $ today when I just randomly checked because some "experts" here were VERY convinced about that and were betting on it.





Soros and his cartel including Pelosi will be jumping in to make themselves even more rich and wealthy.


Pelosi will be exclaiming *WHAT A BEAUTIFUL SIGHT TO BEHOLD 

*


----------



## sammuel

DF41 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508466863075999757




So you cant actually answer my question so you posted a BS staged video instead ?

I ask again :

How do you Justify staining all Ukrainians , when right wing parties only got 2% of the votes in the last elections ?

Le pen national front in France , got a lot more votes than that. Should Russia invade France now as well ?

~


----------



## Apollon

sammuel said:


> So you cant actually answer my question so you posted a BS staged video instead ?
> 
> I ask again :
> 
> How do you Justify staining all Ukrainians , when right wing parties only got 2% of the votes in the last elections ?
> 
> Le pen national front in France , got a lot more votes than that. Should Russia invade France now as well ?
> 
> ~



Russia itself has much more nazis. Putin for example. The entire country is nazi and even uses nazi symbolism like the Z

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Clutch

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508384767628263426
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508024342864711683
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508456867097313287
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508446218267115526



Interesting.... Does Russia have enough gold to peg the Ruble to it?... If they do, how does one cash out in gold by submitting rubles. 

I'm not sure how this would work.


----------



## A1Kaid

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508382472522076167
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508522283891322880
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508576073528877059
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508577843734843392



The mayor has confirmed, Russia has captured Mariupol which solidifies the land corridor between Crimea and Donbas.









Mariupol is 'in the hands' of Russia, mayor says






theweek.com

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Clutch

Wood said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tesla boss Elon Musk says, 'We cannot let Putin take over Ukraine. This is crazy' - Business Insider India
> 
> 
> SpaceX and Tesla CEO Elon Musk said the world cannot let Russian President Vladimir Putin win in Ukraine because if he can get away with it, this will be a
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.businessinsider.in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Musk says that space X can launch satellites faster than Russia can launch anti satellite missiles



Elon Musk showing his South African Nazi Apartheid roots ..... All Afrikaans and South Africans invaders have a racist streak...

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jhungary

Female sniper 'behind 40 kills' is captured after being 'left for dead​




__





Female sniper 'behind 40 kills' is captured after being 'left for dead






www.msn.com

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## jhungary

A1Kaid said:


> The mayor has confirmed, Russia has captured Mariupol which solidifies the land corridor between Crimea and Donbas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mariupol is 'in the hands' of Russia, mayor says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theweek.com


He is referring to the evacuation corridors

Mariupol evacuation corridors 'in the hands of the occupiers' as mayor tells everyone to leave​




__





Mariupol evacuation corridors 'in the hands of the occupiers' as mayor tells everyone to leave






www.msn.com





The Military Situation in Mariupol is largely unchanged since Day 27.

Need to read more than just the title.......


----------



## Apollon

Now that the russians are pushed back more and more, over 500.000 ukrainians already returned to their homes 









Ukraine Refugees’ Hopes of Return Waning Weeks Into War


MEDYKA, Poland (AP) — As Russia launched its war in Ukraine last month, exhausted and frightened refugees arrived in neighboring countries. They carried whatever they could grab in a hurry. Many cried. They still do.




nowthisnews.com


----------



## jhungary

Clutch said:


> Interesting.... Does Russia have enough gold to peg the Ruble to it?... If they do, how does one cash out in gold by submitting rubles.
> 
> I'm not sure how this would work.


It won't actually work, unless they confiscating gold own by civilian. Even so, the Russia would still have to shrink their economy

They only have around 2300 tons of gold, worth upward to 160 billions dollars, if they were to back it via gold entirely, their economy is going to shrink 10 times.

On the other hand, if this is true, that mean China is refusing to use RMB and bail out Russia. Which make me doubt this is the case here, I don't think that news is legit.


----------



## A1Kaid

jhungary said:


> He is referring to the evacuation corridors
> 
> Mariupol evacuation corridors 'in the hands of the occupiers' as mayor tells everyone to leave​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mariupol evacuation corridors 'in the hands of the occupiers' as mayor tells everyone to leave
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Military Situation in Mariupol is largely unchanged since Day 27.
> 
> Need to read more than just the title.......



Point to me where in the article he said only the "evacuation corridor"? I read the article and *no where does it mention* control being limited to evacuation corridors. If you can point me to it I will stand corrected.

"*Russian forces now control the majority of the Ukrainian port city of Mariupol*, CNN reported Monday.

"[W]e are in the hands of the occupiers today," said Mariupol Mayor Vadym Boichenko in a televised interview on Monday."

Also how the hell does that even make sense, to say "in the hands of" but they only control the evacuation corridors... They control the city.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Apollon said:


> Now that the russians are pushed back more and more, over 500.000 ukrainians already returned to their homes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine Refugees’ Hopes of Return Waning Weeks Into War
> 
> 
> MEDYKA, Poland (AP) — As Russia launched its war in Ukraine last month, exhausted and frightened refugees arrived in neighboring countries. They carried whatever they could grab in a hurry. Many cried. They still do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nowthisnews.com


Watched a video yesterday, Ukrainian started turning down local application to TDF......

That mean they have already recruited more than enough TDF, unconfirmed source suggested TDF has been expanded to 200,000 strong...

Reactions: Like Like:
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## AZMwi

Vergennes said:


> That's the second time you're posting this tweet,and it is from karabakh...


i can see ur desperation. he tweeted about armenian situation but clearly u r blinded by russian hate lol

Reactions: Love Love:
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## jhungary

A1Kaid said:


> Point to me where in the article he said only the "evacuation corridor"? I read the article and *no where does it mention* control being limited to evacuation corridors. If you can point me to it I will stand corrected.
> 
> "*Russian forces now control the majority of the Ukrainian port city of Mariupol*, CNN reported Monday.
> 
> "[W]e are in the hands of the occupiers today," said Mariupol Mayor Vadym Boichenko in a televised interview on Monday."
> 
> Also how the hell does that even make sense, to say "in the hands of" but they only control the evacuation corridors... They control the city.


It is on the heading.

Also, read the first paragraph on the Actual CNN piece I quoted, instead of the one that you misquoted.



> Ukrainian forces "*continue to maintain circular defense" in the besieged Ukrainian city of Mariupol*, the Ukrainian general staff said early Tuesday, even as *Russian forces consolidated control* around the southeastern port city


.


----------



## A1Kaid

jhungary said:


> *It is on the heading.*
> 
> Also, read the first paragraph on the Actual CNN piece I quoted, *instead of the one that you misquoted.*
> 
> 
> .



"It. is on the heading." What heading?

I didn't misquote anything, everyone can see the article. I think you're confused or reading an old source. Russia has captured Mariupol, Boichenko even gave an interview and confirmed it is under Russian control, he has also fled the city. This is true as of Monday night US.








Also provide a link to the quote you shared, at best its outdated and worst its deceiving you. Or you can just admit you were incorrect. Russia controls the city now.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Clutch

jhungary said:


> It won't actually work, unless they confiscating gold own by civilian. Even so, the Russia would still have to shrink their economy
> 
> They only have around 2300 tons of gold, worth upward to 160 billions dollars, if they were to back it via gold entirely, their economy is going to shrink 10 times.
> 
> On the other hand, if this is true, that mean China is refusing to use RMB and bail out Russia. Which make me doubt this is the case here, I don't think that news is legit.



I agree as well for those reasons... It seams like the Chinese have made the choice here and they aren't willing to do Harakiri (or hara-kiri) for the Russians....

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

A1Kaid said:


> "It. is on the heading." What heading? I didn't misquote anything, everyone can see the article. I think you're confused or reading an old source. Russia has captured Mariupol, Boichenko even gave an interview and confirmed it is under Russian control, he has also fled the city. This is true as of Monday night US.
> 
> View attachment 828322


Again, the article you quote is quoting a piece on CNN, i quote the actual article that was written by CNN. And that CNN piece the week quote did not actually say what the week said.

I really don't know what to tell you





Heading as in the word under the CNN logo on the black background.


----------



## A1Kaid

jhungary said:


> Again, the article you quote is quoting a piece on CNN, i quote the actual article that was written by CNN. And that CNN piece the week quote did not actually say what the week said.
> 
> I really don't know what to tell you
> 
> View attachment 828332
> 
> Heading as in the word under the CNN logo on the black background.



Ok thanks for sharing this, I read the article: https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/28/europe/mariupol-mayor-ukraine-occupiers-intl/index.html

Based on how CNN's heading is written it does appear the Mayor was referencing the evacuation corridor. However, *he did not say Russian control was limited to the evacuation corridors*. He's admitting the city is lost and that is the point to take away. Other sources have also reported most of the city is under Russian control minus some Ukrainian resistance that is holding out.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

A1Kaid said:


> Ok thanks for sharing this, I read the article: https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/28/europe/mariupol-mayor-ukraine-occupiers-intl/index.html
> 
> Based on how CNN's heading is written it does appear the Mayor was referencing the evacuation corridor. However, *he did not say Russian control was limited to the evacuation corridors*. He's admitting the city is lost and that is the point to take away. Other sources have also reported most of the city is under Russian control minus some Ukrainian resistance that is holding out.


You may have confused City Hall and the City.

IIRC, Mariupol City centre (where the town hall is) was captured like a week ago, if you look at the war map below, you will see Ukrainian only have 3 out of 5 district (or whatever that was called)

Google Map put Mariupol Townhall In Zhoevyetyi District







(The dot in the map)

And according to this BBC war map of Mariupol as of 2100 GMT 27 March (Yesterday), that area is already occupied by the Russian. And the Russian made some advance (The Black Line crossed over are now belonging to the Russian now as per Russian source claimed)






By the way, this map (unaltered version) is approximately 1 day old when the CNN article was made, this is just for the reference.



Clutch said:


> I agree as well for those reasons... It seams like the Chinese have made the choice here and they aren't willing to do Harakiri (or hara-kiri) for the Russians....


Well, my guess is China will bail Russian out somehow, but will not be doing it in the scale that will piss off the west, so it does not make sense for Russia to peg to gold.

Again, unless China really will not do anything to bail Russia out, then and only then it would make sense that Russia peg their currency with gold..


----------



## Clutch

Warning graphic video of Ukrainian Nazi Soldiers committing a war crimes by shooting dead surrendered tied up Russian soldiers in cold blood...

Sorry... TWITTER removed the 1st evidence since it goes against Western Propaganda. The second one should still be working... For now at least.



Spoiler: Graphic 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507975846384082945





Spoiler: Graphic 












Shocking Videos Allegedly Show Ukrainians Shooting And Torturing Russian POWs


Your Destination Of pure Entertainment




www.yourdestinationnow.com

Reactions: Angry Angry:
4


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508422627991465994


----------



## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The German central bank needs to join in the recently announced SPFS (System for Transfer of Financial Messages). That way, they can do business with the Russian central bank. I think this is how the Russians intend to deal with the "unfriendly" countries" who sanction them.
> 
> For Russia's "friendly" countries, they'll need to sign up with China's Cross-Border Interbank Payment System (CIPS) and/or SPFS. They have either or both options.
> 
> In essence, Russia's efforts here is to boycott the SWIFT financial system; and for any entity or country that is doing business with them should either use the SPFS and/or CHIPS. This is what the war in Ukraine is all about, and this is how both Russia and China intend to beat the Western-dominated sanctions through the SWIFT system.


That’s a breach of contract.
There is no way Germany will join Russia or China payment system.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## jhungary

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508548335514226689


Well, 30 some days in, why would you still using tank going into the street single like that?

And for those of you who say this NLAW did not detonate, you can see the flame coming out from Under the Turret and also on top, which mean it punch thru from the top and lighting the tank on fire inside the turret, so fire comes out on any hole it made. (And also it will not be on fire if it had not detonated)

I would not want to be that tank crew right now...........

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Trango Towers

Viet said:


> To get the rubles you must exchange the money. Practically contacting Russia central bank. However the Russia central bank is under total sanction. Even if anyone in Germany is willing to pay in rubles it’s impossible to get rubles to pay the bill. It’s strictly forbidden. You will be arrested immediately and put to prison.


That's the official line.
Reality...take the UK govenment. All banks and financial institutions overtly talk about money laundering all the time. Strict laws. Yet all Russian oligarchs live in London and their billions are welcome even though the city of London knows its dirty money. Laws are for the poor and the small fish. Big fish make laws.


----------



## Viet

letsrock said:


> You will be imprisoned for trying to get rubles and buy some gas to keep your house warm in winter ? sound like the freedom @Apollon craves
> 
> 
> hahaha ..the price for his freedom. Freedom is ok if the damage is within 3%.


Yes I wear more clothes. police will come to arrest if you try to get rubles. That is not a joke. Luckily the spring has arrived.


----------



## Trango Towers

Clutch said:


> Warning graphic video of Ukrainian Nazi Soldiers committing a war crimes by shooting dead surrendered tied up Russian soldiers in cold blood...
> 
> Sorry... TWITTER removed the 1st evidence since it goes against Western Propaganda. The second one should still be working... For now at least.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507975846384082945
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shocking Videos Allegedly Show Ukrainians Shooting And Torturing Russian POWs
> 
> 
> Your Destination Of pure Entertainment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yourdestinationnow.com


But clearly this is not a war crime...I hope the guy who did this gets it


----------



## The SC

Clutch said:


> Interesting.... Does Russia have enough gold to peg the Ruble to it?... If they do, how does one cash out in gold by submitting rubles.
> 
> I'm not sure how this would work.


The problem is that there is not enough gold to cover all the currencies of the world, and not even the dollar itself..

The blows to the dollar have begun:

China and Russia trade in local currency..

India and Russia, and their position is good with the Russians in the war now..

Russia asked to pay in Russian rubles for its products..

Saudi Arabia is considering partially disengaging the dollar from selling oil to China..
US weapon is a 30-cent banknote..

Here are some numbers to know the extent to which dependence on the dollar has deteriorated
in the last 20 years, the dollar represented more than 80% of the hard currency reserves in the world, and now it represents only 53%..

The dollar has fallen as a hard currency for the countries of the world, currently with the equivalent of 15 trillion dollars..

With the American mishandling of the issues of the national states and their bias and the collapse of the image of the American dream for everyone, the dollar lost a lot of its position..

The countries switched to gold, the euro, the Japanese yen, and finally to the Chinese yuan..

Gold must be adopted as an international standard and a real cover for any paper currencies of countries, to represent the principle of scarcity and effort together..



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508497496930144264

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Trango Towers

The SC said:


> The problem is that there is not enough gold to cover all the currencies of the world, and not even the dollar itself..


Dollar vs rubble 95.75 now 
Remember where ig was a few days ago


----------



## Apollon

Clutch said:


> Warning graphic video of Ukrainian Nazi Soldiers committing a war crimes by shooting dead surrendered tied up Russian soldiers in cold blood...
> 
> Sorry... TWITTER removed the 1st evidence since it goes against Western Propaganda. The second one should still be working... For now at least.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507975846384082945
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shocking Videos Allegedly Show Ukrainians Shooting And Torturing Russian POWs
> 
> 
> Your Destination Of pure Entertainment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yourdestinationnow.com



Its war. Dont attack another country and be save. Its that simple. I dont support such things but it happens


----------



## Clutch

Apollon said:


> Its war. Dont attack another country and be save. Its that simple. I dont support such things but it happens




I think some terrorist used the same excuse for ISIS but the West didn't accept "such things happen" excuse by ISIS.... Why?


----------



## Viet

Trango Towers said:


> Dollar vs rubble 95.75 now
> Remember where ig was a few days ago


Russia fakes the exchange rate.
They limit selling or buying dollars and rubles. It’s like if you want to increase the price of tomatoes you force people to buy tomatoes. The higher demand the higher the price for tomatoes. People have no choice.

It’s nearly impossible to sell Russia securities and assets. Its impossible to withdraw the dollars out of Russia.

It’s a matter of time till the wall of lies collapses.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508685383927840776


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508612033478025226

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508597224950878214

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508473991228317696

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508564718721675269

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Trango Towers

Viet said:


> Russia fakes the exchange rate.
> They limit selling or buying dollars and rubles. It’s like if you want to increase the price of tomatoes you force people to buy tomatoes. The higher demand the higher the price for tomatoes. People have no choice.
> 
> It’s nearly impossible to sell Russia securities and assets. Its impossible to withdraw the dollars out of Russia.
> 
> It’s a matter of time till the wall of lies collapses.


OK...


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508559691655307271

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508548275560800258

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508544899897073666

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508542586205708295


----------



## Apollon

Clutch said:


> I think some terrorist used the same excuse for ISIS but the West didn't accept "such things happen" excuse by ISIS.... Why?



Russian soldiers attack Ukraine and committed unspeakable crimes. I understand that not all ukrainians stand above that and show mercy


----------



## Paul2

LeGenD said:


> USA and Nigeria have offered to substitute Russia in this matter.



Russia threatened to cut off gas for 1 month in a row, when its troops were fighting, and dying, and is still not bluffing...

Closing a tap on the pipe must be definitely harder than invading a country.


----------



## Apollon

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508597224950878214
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508473991228317696
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508564718721675269



40% of 16% energy. Thats replaceable.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508533805463785483

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508526810962792449

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508525881702105096

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508525193857228802

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508523949612843017

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508507818353217538

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## jamahir

jhungary said:


> Well, if ISIS "*CLAIMED*" responsibility on a bombing, doesn't it means that ISIS "*ADMITTED*" to be behind the bombing?
> 
> Dude, it's simple English..........



You say you were a military intelligence officer yet you do not understand nuances and context ? Please follow back the posts and see what I said.


----------



## The SC

Spoiler: Graphic



https://twitter.com/EldAbajoo/status/1508506803923042307

Reactions: Sad Sad:
2 | Angry Angry:
2


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## jamahir

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508526810962792449



Will NATO presidents and prime ministers go meet Ukrainian military in the war zones just like Kadirov did ?



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508507818353217538



@sammuel @F-22Raptor @Wood @mmr @Vergennes @Messerschmitt, what do you say now ? Isn't the Ukranian military doing war crimes ? Isn't the Russian reason for the special military operation correct ?



The SC said:


> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/EldAbajoo/status/1508506803923042307



Look at this too.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508692313614299140

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508695549851189253

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508702792340357123


----------



## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> Well, if ISIS "*CLAIMED*" responsibility on a bombing, doesn't it means that ISIS "*ADMITTED*" to be behind the bombing?
> 
> Dude, it's simple English..........
> 
> 
> First of all, you do know Russia economy is a 1.6 trillion economy (in 2020), with government expense last reported as 38% GDP in 2020 (For those who don't own a calculator, it's 608 billions dollar)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List of countries by government spending as percentage of GDP - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With oil and gas revenue valued at roughly 1.5 billions a day, if the West did not stop the buying of Russian oil and gas (US, Canada, UK and Australia already stopped buying) you are talking about somewhat 547 billions.. And then they don't have a war going on before. And that is if Russia nationalise 100% of the profit from selling oil and gas. Russia don't own the company that drill oil and gas...It's private own by those Oligarch.
> 
> The next best Russian export is Wheat, less than 7 billions market a year.
> 
> Just because you have some magical believe, it would not magically balance the balance sheet, you are looking at 50 or so billion in the red, and nobody is willing to lend money, last counted, even the Chinese frozen loan to Russian. Where are you going to get that 50 billions? And then there are already 43 billions debt to settle, and they don't take Rouble.
> 
> On the other hand, Rouble rebounded because Russia stop trading foreign currency and increased interest rate (Which draw Rouble back into central bank because you cannot sell it and you are encourage to deposit to it) in Financial term, this is a "Freeze" but you cannot freeze it for long because you are essentially taking Rouble out of the market, that does not mean people are not going to need it to trade or buy stuff.
> 
> Also, Rouble did not rebounded back to the original level (Today at 1: 0.0096, it was 1: 0.012 before the war) even with this measure, which you don't need a economy degree to know this is serious, because those measure are supposed to support the currency, and they are still somewhere 20% below the value of USD before the war. That mean those measure are not enough to take it back to the level, and the world is expecting another Rouble drop since the west also sanctioned Russian gold, which is the last thing Russia can trade with foreign currency.
> 
> What do you expect from yahoo who know nothing about economy.....



It is a lot of typing to just say: 

" Yes, Russia will have serious economical consequences as a result of this war, but Russian economy will survive and will not completely collapse. And yes Ruble will lose its value but not to an extent 1$= 1000 Rubles. I was just over dramatizing it ".

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Will NATO presidents and prime ministers go meet Ukrainian military in the war zones just like Kadirov did ?
> 
> 
> 
> @sammuel @F-22Raptor @Wood @mmr @Vergennes @Messerschmitt, what do you say now ? Isn't the Ukranian military doing war crimes ? Isn't the Russian reason for the special military operation correct ?
> 
> 
> 
> Look at this too.



Russians can leave Ukraine whenever they want. As i said when you attack someone this can happen.


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Russians can leave Ukraine whenever they want. As i said when you attack someone this can happen.



What can happen ?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508695599050334208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508692578631356423

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508688777002336261

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Paul2

For the first time, we are getting info on the number of Russian units in Kherson region.

8 BTGs — or at least their parts.

Kherson is cutoff from the Internet, so this may explain the lack of media from Ukrainian side.

8 BTGs is also more than early estimation of it being half of that.

That force is either rather spread out, or is hiding well — which is expected of because of long open fields making it an SPG heaven.

What is also surprising is the lack of return artillery fire from Russians. Are they out of artillery, or they never had it in the first place?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

Apollon said:


> Russians can leave Ukraine whenever they want. As i said when you attack someone this can happen.


Those hanged by Azov militants are Ukrainians..their only crime is that they speak Russian..

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## jamahir

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508688777002336261



@The BrOkEn HeArT, watch the vid. The Ukranian military is like the Indian government forces fighting against the Naxals and the Kashmiri civilians who are also Indians.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508547066804461579

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508474054080008194

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> What can happen ?



That people overreact because their emotions. If russians destroy my home, kill my people i dont know what i would do when catching them



The SC said:


> Those hanged by Azov militants are Ukrainians..their only crime is that they speak Russian..



Wrong, its enemy soldiers. Did even wear Uniform


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508715826358235137


----------



## gambit

Broccoli said:


> Talibans never had similar weapons what Ukrainians have.


Why not? Why no one helped the Taliban?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508465231596511235

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508333230914744322

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503653049226743809


Apollon said:


> That people overreact because their emotions. If russians destroy my home, kill my people i dont know what i would do when catching them
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong, its enemy soldiers. Did even wear Uniform


A man and his pregnant wife and you still call them soldiers.. They are Ukrainians speaking Russian..




Spoiler: Graphic



https://twitter.com/EldAbajoo/status/1508506803923042307




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508338958379499525

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## jamahir

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508715826358235137



How calmly you do NATO's propaganda even after I had quoted you the crimes of the Ukranian military. Please stop being a criminal.



Apollon said:


> That people overreact because their emotions. If russians destroy my home, kill my people i dont know what i would do when catching them



So since 2014 it was Russian-speakers in Ukraine who were over running other parts of Ukraine and slaughtering people there ?



Apollon said:


> Wrong, its enemy soldiers. Did even wear Uniform



So that hanged pregnant woman was captured with weapons when she trying to kill Ukranian-speaking females and children ?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508087893281189891

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508328070201200642

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508279551683710986


----------



## Ich

Apollon said:


> Economic studies regarding energy cuts
> 
> https://www.econtribute.de › ...PDF
> What if? The Economic Effects for Germany of a Stop of Energy Imports from Russia - Econtribute



Really? This is utter nonsense. I show you why.

"Germany would not run out of energy. However, oil, hard coal and gas would have to be imported from other countries and industry would have to be restructured in the long term."

Ah yeah? And from where does the needed gas came from within THE NEXT 3 YEARS if russian gas stops now? There is not enough import possible within the next 3 years! They even admit it self some lines later

"There is no pipeline infrastructure for deliveries from other regions and only fewer available gas terminals." 

In Germany there are NONE gas terminals (let alone the masses of gas tankers what are needed and what not exist).

"Gas from other countries such as Norway, Algeria or Azerbaijan and the use of other fuels for electricity production, such as coal or nuclear energy, could probably only reduce the deficit to about 30 percent."

Really? Norway is at maximum production. 

"„Wir liefern ein Drittel des Gasbedarfs Deutschlands, aber wir drehen bei voller Kapazität", sagte er am Dienstag im ZDF. „Wir haben keine Reserven, mit denen wir andere Dinge ersetzen könnten.“









Premier Störe dämpft Erwartungen: Kann norwegisches Gas Gazprom-Lieferungen ersetzen?


Auf der Suche nach Alternativen zu russischen Gaslieferungen fällt der Blick auf Norwegen. Am Mittwoch ist Regierungschef Jonas Gahr Störe im Kanzleramt.




www.tagesspiegel.de





So there is *NO* additional gas from Norway! 

Also Aserbaidschan

""At the moment the TANAP pipeline is operating at 100% of its capacity," said consortium head Saltuk Duzyol."

"Overall this year we *plan* to supply 16.2 bcm of gas to Turkey and Europe," he said, implying deliveries of 10.5 bcm to Europe.
Duzyol said plans to increase capacity to 23.7 bcm in the second phase and then 31 bcm in the third phase *would take four to five years, with additional construction required.*









Azerbaijan set to boost gas supply to Europe this year, double capacity in future


Azerbaijan plans to boost natural gas supplies this year and pump 16.2 billion cubic metres (bcm) via the Trans-Anatolian Natural Gas Pipeline (TANAP), mainly to Europe, and almost double its capacity in the future, the consortium's head said on Wednesday.




www.reuters.com





So from Aserbaidschan only little to less gas into Europe, *what means nearly nothing to Germany*. If ever, cause it is only "planned" to do so.

And now Algeria.

"But Algeria’s main challenge in increasing exports is production capacity. In a recent interview Sonatrach CEO Toufik Hakkar indicated that Algeria’s production will focus on growing domestic gas needs and current export obligations. From 2013 to 2018, according to Oxford Energy, domestic usage increased by about 10% and is projected to grow by an additional 50% by 2028."









Given capacity constraints, Algeria is no quick fix for Europe’s Russian gas concerns


While Europe might be ready for more Algerian gas as it looks to diversify its suppliers, Algeria’s current production capacity limits its ability to substantially increase export volumes to Europe. As of now, any meaningful increases in Algerian production will require years of exploration and...




www.mei.edu





So only little more gas into EU from Algeria, *what means little more to nearly nothing to Germany. 

AND *what do you think people do if there is not enough gas for heat? They will use electricity! And there isnt even enough electricity by now in Germany. Lots of blackouts. Even fright trains had to stop cause there were not enough energy in the net!


So with this few examples this whole bullshit propaganda you linked turns into nothing, is utter nonesense!


*WAKE THE **** UP!*

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Haha Haha:
1


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508175990215909387


----------



## gambit

Anyone remember the Kolchuga supposedly 'anti-stealth' radar manufactured in Ukraine? It was a huge buzz that seemingly meant the end of 'stealth'. Never mind that the system, while looked good on paper, was at best spotty in application. But now, the US is guaranteed to get our hands on it, from paper to machine.


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> How calmly you do NATO's propaganda even after I had quoted you the crimes of the Ukranian military. Please stop being a criminal.
> 
> 
> 
> So since 2014 it was Russian-speakers in Ukraine who were over running other parts of Ukraine and slaughtering people there ?
> 
> 
> 
> So that hanged pregnant woman was captured with weapons when she trying to kill Ukranian-speaking females and children ?



As i said, russian propaganda is too simple and basic. Pregnant women, swastika. What else? Did Hitler appear at the sky?



gambit said:


> Anyone remember the Kolchuga supposedly 'anti-stealth' radar manufactured in Ukraine? It was a huge buzz that seemingly meant the end of 'stealth'. Never mind that the system, while looked good on paper, was at best spotty in application. But now, the US is guaranteed to get our hands on it, from paper to machine.



Its at moment in Germany for analysis



Ich said:


> Really? This is utter nonsense. I show you why.
> 
> "Germany would not run out of energy. However, oil, hard coal and gas would have to be imported from other countries and industry would have to be restructured in the long term."
> 
> Ah yeah? And from where does the needed gas came from within THE NEXT 3 YEARS if russian gas stops now? There is not enough import possible within the next 3 years! They even admit it self some lines later
> 
> "There is no pipeline infrastructure for deliveries from other regions and only fewer available gas terminals."
> 
> In Germany there are NONE gas terminals (let alone the masses of gas tankers what are needed and what not exist).
> 
> "Gas from other countries such as Norway, Algeria or Azerbaijan and the use of other fuels for electricity production, such as coal or nuclear energy, could probably only reduce the deficit to about 30 percent."
> 
> Really? Norway is at maximum production.
> 
> "„Wir liefern ein Drittel des Gasbedarfs Deutschlands, aber wir drehen bei voller Kapazität", sagte er am Dienstag im ZDF. „Wir haben keine Reserven, mit denen wir andere Dinge ersetzen könnten.“
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Premier Störe dämpft Erwartungen: Kann norwegisches Gas Gazprom-Lieferungen ersetzen?
> 
> 
> Auf der Suche nach Alternativen zu russischen Gaslieferungen fällt der Blick auf Norwegen. Am Mittwoch ist Regierungschef Jonas Gahr Störe im Kanzleramt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tagesspiegel.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So there is *NO* additional gas from Norway!
> 
> Also Aserbaidschan
> 
> ""At the moment the TANAP pipeline is operating at 100% of its capacity," said consortium head Saltuk Duzyol."
> 
> "Overall this year we *plan* to supply 16.2 bcm of gas to Turkey and Europe," he said, implying deliveries of 10.5 bcm to Europe.
> Duzyol said plans to increase capacity to 23.7 bcm in the second phase and then 31 bcm in the third phase *would take four to five years, with additional construction required.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Azerbaijan set to boost gas supply to Europe this year, double capacity in future
> 
> 
> Azerbaijan plans to boost natural gas supplies this year and pump 16.2 billion cubic metres (bcm) via the Trans-Anatolian Natural Gas Pipeline (TANAP), mainly to Europe, and almost double its capacity in the future, the consortium's head said on Wednesday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So from Aserbaidschan only little to less gas into Europe, *what means nearly nothing to Germany*. If ever, cause it is only "planned" to do so.
> 
> And now Algeria.
> 
> "But Algeria’s main challenge in increasing exports is production capacity. In a recent interview Sonatrach CEO Toufik Hakkar indicated that Algeria’s production will focus on growing domestic gas needs and current export obligations. From 2013 to 2018, according to Oxford Energy, domestic usage increased by about 10% and is projected to grow by an additional 50% by 2028."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Given capacity constraints, Algeria is no quick fix for Europe’s Russian gas concerns
> 
> 
> While Europe might be ready for more Algerian gas as it looks to diversify its suppliers, Algeria’s current production capacity limits its ability to substantially increase export volumes to Europe. As of now, any meaningful increases in Algerian production will require years of exploration and...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mei.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So only little more gas into EU from Algeria, *what means little more to nearly nothing to Germany.
> 
> AND *what do you think people do if there is not enough gas for heat? They will use electricity! And there isnt even enough electricity by now in Germany. Lots of blackouts. Even fright trains had to stop cause there were not enough energy in the net!
> 
> 
> So with this few examples this whole bullshit propaganda you linked turns into nothing, is utter nonesense!
> 
> 
> *WAKE THE **** UP!*



And? Germany wont pay in ruble. That simple


----------



## jamahir

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508087893281189891



I agree so I don't see why Nazi supporters on this thread are being allowed to propagandize.



Apollon said:


> As i said, russian propaganda is too simple and basic. Pregnant women, swastika. What else? Did Hitler appear at the sky?



Russians are just presenting the truth unlike NATO who declared that Gaddafi was giving viagra to his soldiers to rape Libyan females and that Assad was gassing Syrian civilians.

So you don't believe that photo from yesterday of a swastika burned into a girl's body ? You don't believe that hanged pregnant woman ? You still don't believe Ukranian military is operating from civilian facilities ? Even on the fourth or fifth day of the war there were photos of Ukranian military firing from school ground and one or two days later there was a vid of a Ukranian MLRS leaving an area near residential buildings after firing.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> I agree so I don't see why Nazi supporters on this thread are being allowed to propagandize.
> 
> 
> 
> Russians are just presenting the truth unlike NATO who declared that Gaddafi was giving viagra to his soldiers to rape Libyan females and that Assad was gassing Syrian civilians.
> 
> So you don't believe that photo from yesterday of a swastika burned into a girl's body ? You don't believe that hanged pregnant woman ? You still don't believe Ukranian military is operating from civilian facilities ? Even on the fourth or fifth day of the war there were photos of Ukranian military firing from school ground and one or two days later there was a vid of a Ukranian MLRS leaving an area near residential buildings after firing.



Nope, for me its russian propaganda.

What matters is to beat putin. Nothing else.


----------



## coffee_cup

I am unable to understand one thing:

Germany has banned RT and even today 50,000 EUR fine has been imposed.

At the same time Germany has angrily protested today against Russia's decision about classifying Deutsche Welle (DW) as foreign agent. And called it an attack on Freedom of Press. NOTE: DW is still allowed in Russia unlike RT.

 Just speechless! it is so bizare that it is not even funny!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Messerschmitt

jamahir said:


> How calmly you do NATO's propaganda even after I had quoted you the crimes of the Ukranian military. Please stop being a criminal.


Dude, this tweet is criticising Ukraine's MoD for inflating numbers of destroyed enemy hardware but apparently you are unable to comprehend. I don’t care how many times you quote or tag me per day on random posts just to desperately seek my attention like a five year old and to trap me in pointless discussions that end nowhere but in your constant whataboutisms. You are on my ignore list now, so spare your time and mine and don’t bother quoting me in your whiny posts again.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> It is a lot of typing to just say:
> 
> " Yes, Russia will have serious economical consequences as a result of this war, but Russian economy will survive and will not completely collapse. And yes Ruble will lose its value but not to an extent 1$= 1000 Rubles. I was just over dramatizing it ".


Well, you type 3 sentences to say "I don't know shit"?? 

LOL



jamahir said:


> You say you were a military intelligence officer yet you do not understand nuances and context ? Please follow back the posts and see what I said.


I fully understand the context, but seems like you don't know what I am talking about.


----------



## northeast

coffee_cup said:


> I am unable to understand one thing:
> 
> Germany has banned RT and even today 50,000 EUR fine has been imposed.
> 
> At the same time Germany has angrily protested today against Russia's decision about classifying Deutsche Welle (DW) as foreign agent. And called it an attack on Freedom of Press. NOTE: DW is still allowed in Russia unlike RT.
> 
> Just speechless! it is so bizare that it is not even funny!


It's just their daily hypocrisy. If you are not a hypocrite, you would not be able to be a politician in western countries,especially left wing politicians. it's a basic skill.

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Nope, for me its russian propaganda.
> 
> What matters is to beat putin. Nothing else.



So you are back to your mindless Putin hate after a day of being calm.



Messerschmitt said:


> Dude, this tweet is criticising Ukraine's MoD for inflating numbers of destroyed enemy hardware but apparently you are unable to comprehend.



That half-hearted criticism is no criticism at all but yes I reacted automatically to your name without reading the tweet. But you are the boy who cried wolf too many times hence my reaction.



Messerschmitt said:


> I don’t care how many times you quote or tag me per day on random posts just to desperately seek my attention like a five year old and to trap me in pointless discussions that end nowhere but in your constant whataboutisms. You are on my ignore list now, so spare your time and mine and don’t bother quoting me in your whiny posts again.



So me talking about a pregnant woman and a man being hanged by your Nazis is me whining and pointless, is it ? Have shame, man.

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> So you are back to your mindless Putin hate after a day of being calm.
> 
> 
> 
> That half-hearted criticism is no criticism at all but yes I reacted automatically to your name without reading the tweet. But you are the boy who cried wolf too many times hence my reaction.
> 
> 
> 
> So me talking about a pregnant woman and a man being hanged by your Nazis is me whining and pointless, is it ? Have shame, man.



Its not Putin hate. We are at war. Putin declared war on Europe. The sooner we win this war, the better for all. So far it looks good on almost all fields. Im not naive, i know that wars get dirty. Even more so against a country like russia that knows no human rights. But now we must walk on.


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Even more so against a country like russia that knows no humanity.



Wow !


----------



## coffee_cup

Another side effect: 

eco friendly feeding (Bio) of livestock will have to be replaced by conventional (non-eco) feed. 

Friedrich-Otte Ripke, president of "Zentralverbandes der Deutschen Geflügelwirtschaft" says they will have to move from eco to non-eco. And here comes, it will still be sold as "Bio" product if EU allows it (which they will due to extra ordinary circumstances).

Now this is getting absurd.

End this stupid war, now!!

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## Ich

Apollon said:


> And? Germany wont pay in ruble. That simple



Well, the money of your parents wont save you from the masses...


----------



## Paul2

Paul2 said:


> For the first time, we are getting info on the number of Russian units in Kherson region.
> 
> 8 BTGs — or at least their parts.
> 
> Kherson is cutoff from the Internet, so this may explain the lack of media from Ukrainian side.
> 
> 8 BTGs is also more than early estimation of it being half of that.
> 
> That force is either rather spread out, or is hiding well — which is expected of because of long open fields making it an SPG heaven.
> 
> What is also surprising is the lack of return artillery fire from Russians. Are they out of artillery, or they never had it in the first place?




Whomever runs the show for Russia in the south, realised very early that single BTGs are very vulnerable, especially in open terrain. He reconstituted higher level units: field divisions, and regiments from BTGs, which is a very safe move.
I believe that Russian ad-hoc divisions in the south are incomplete, and lack elements of proper divisions because they were glued together in the field.
The lack of artillery counterfire, and overall aggression maybe:
Acknowledgement of his weak position, and wish to preserve forces
Loss/non-delivery of arty/ammo, and you can't be aggressive in a big open country without it

Seeing how they will be holding (or not) Kherson will be very interesting

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## Musings

sammuel said:


> So you cant actually answer my question so you posted a poster of Hitler instead ?
> 
> I ask again :
> 
> How do you Justify staining all Ukrainians , when right wing parties only got 2% of the votes in the last elections ?
> 
> Le pen national front in France , got a lot more votes than that. Should Russia invade France now as well ?
> 
> ~


Whether its 2% or 22% - its not relevant. Zelensky has incorporated them into the army - giving them their own battalion. Let that sink in. They are part of the army. 
Zelensky has legitimized and given them a national voice.

The likes of you and your fanboys stain ALL Muslims for the action of a few? Why are you selective now? You cant pick and choose your argument and twist the agenda so it panders to your thinking?

Let me reiterate - he has incorporated the Nazi element into his national army.
He has moved billions of his "personal" wealth in Switzerland (where he got it from is clearly open to debate).
He threatened Russia and threatened them with allowing Nato to access their rockets on the Russian border - creating a international crisis. 

Now what gives you the thriving desire to put on Israeli flags when clearly you are Indian? Do you dream of being white? Do you wear the flags as a trolling device? Do you think your skin will become lighter by the flag you choose? I suggest using a stable diet of an Indian - fair and lovely....

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508750636636151813

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508732230188904450

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508723850711814148

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## The SC



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## Vergennes

A1Kaid said:


> Anyone here who thinks Rosgvardia are elite Russian troops is downright ignorant. They aren't even conventional troops, which proves they aren't sending their best troops in Phase 1. Yes they've used some VDV (the only credible point you have but VDV role has been minor), Rosgvardia, and Chechen troops and guess what? They now *control 50%+ of Ukraine*. Ukrainian military is getting destroyed no matter what Twitter tells you, they've had some successes but they have virtually lost half their country.
> 
> Nobody is arguing Russia's invasion is flawless but they have captured 50%+ of Ukraine, that with a force of mostly conscripts and Chechens. The reality is Russia is not using their best military force in Phase 1 of the invasion. Recently on CNN one military analyst said* 25-30% of Russia's invading force are conscripts*, another 1/3 are Kadryov's Chechen troops, the rest being a mix of regular military units and paramilitary.
> 
> 1st Guard tank army is not being used in Ukraine (they've only been "activated") although they are one of Russia's best. But you just proved my point, *the invading force was basically cannon fodder.* It does seem however Russia wants to send more trained military units to occupy and expand into Ukraine for Phase 2. Russia cannot afford to lose its best units (especially over Ukraine) in the event they have a conflict with NATO, if they lose the ability to fight conventionally the only real option they have is nuclear.



How is this "+50% of Ukraine" ?







That's crap to claim Russians only sent second tier forces to attack Ukraine and sent them as cannon fodder,that is just a justification to Russia's poor performance in Ukraine,despite the fact elite tank divisions,VDV and motor rifles brigades were sent to Ukraine but performed so poorly.

You are claiming as if Russia had the same mass as the red army where they could afford to throw in forces without having to care about casualties. We are in 2022,not in 1980.

Russia can't afford to lose pilots,soldiers,tankists,officers,engineers,logisticians etc...

YET again I am asking you this simple question..... care to explain why is there no combined arms operations,severe lack of communication between different units and services (use of non secure communications),poor battle management,poor logistics.... So much that they have to send generals on frontlines),any explanation ?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508730399874236417

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508728565545816065

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## Vergennes

South ossetians are already getting slaughtered  good riddance


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508555641358622726

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508580498905391111

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508567395979472898


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508737939807010816


----------



## Knockingdoors

Vergennes said:


> How is this "+50% of Ukraine" ?
> 
> View attachment 828385
> 
> 
> That's crap to claim Russians only sent second tier forces to attack Ukraine and sent them as cannon fodder,that is just a justification to Russia's poor performance in Ukraine,despite the fact elite tank divisions,VDV and motor rifles brigades were sent to Ukraine but performed so poorly.
> 
> You are claiming as if Russia had the same mass as the red army where they could afford to throw in forces without having to care about casualties. We are in 2022,not in 1980.
> 
> Russia can't afford to lose pilots,soldiers,tankists,officers,engineers,logisticians etc...
> 
> YET again I am asking you this simple question..... care to explain why is there no combined arms operations,severe lack of communication between different units and services (use of non secure communications),poor battle management,poor logistics.... So much that they have to send generals on frontlines),any explanation ?




They hold 30.7% of Ukraine if you count what they hold today. The devil is in the detail.

I had time on my hands so I did the calculations.

They currently hold approx. 185455 km2 (I included all of donbass) out of 603628 km2 that translates into 30.7% to be precise.

Regions where Russia holds fully or intends to hold fully: Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia, Kherson, Crimea,

Regions where Russia holds partially: 40% of Kyiv Oblast, 50% of Chernihiv, 80% of Sumy Oblast and 20% of Kharkiv Oblast including roughly 5 % of Mykolaiv Oblast..

The question people should be asking is will russia exit from this territories? the answer is no and especially for the 5 fully occupied main while they won't exit the others unless they swap these regions with other regions. I could see them wanting to hold on the part they hold in Kyiv oblast because of Chernobyl nuclear power plant and also they won't be wanting to exchange Kharkiv at all. I think they could swap Chernihiv, Sumy regions with Dnipropetrovsk Oblast, Mykolaiv whereas I could see them wanting to exchange the parts they hold of Kyiv oblast with Kharkiv oblast even giving up on Chernobyl.

They initially also wanted Odessa but they do realize that taking Odessa will starve the Ukrainians of a port on the Black sea which would be unfair hence why I believe they will let Odessa stay with Ukraine.

Hence I could fancy an end game of Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia, Kherson, Crimea, Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv and Mykolaiv all going to Russia..

This will turn into a DMZ like situation in North and South Korea kind of stand-off and also meaning this war is initially part 1 of two parts franchise. I believe the second engagement when Ukraine and the carved out one eventually collide in the next 15-20 years it would be a much greater war cause I believe it will become nuclear warfare. contrary to many believes here Ukraine will in the end triumph and Russia will fall where NATO will help Ukraine to annex west russia and that will happen in the 2nd part. Ukraine will be partitioned into 2 countries now in the first part but it will triumph in the endgame in the 2nd part 15-20 years later ending with Ukraine annexing West Russia which means fall of Russia.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508742796567531523

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508545477234597891

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508749847020589060
The world has been multipolar for a while, but the current poles are not similar to the Cold War era.. There is great economic interdependence between countries and various factors..

We all know that the largest store and use of the dollar outside of the US is by China itself .. not for the eyes of the Americans, but because of the position of the dollar, and its strength..

For example, although China is the second largest economy in the world, the Chinese yen does not exceed 2% of the total monetary reserves in the world and does not even exceed the Australian dollar.. Strange right? No.. China actually benefits greatly from its control and manipulation of the price of its currency, as it enables it to maneuver to protect its exports of goods and make their prices appropriate.. Chinese exports are the backbone of the country and controlling the currency is a large part of it.. So far, China has significant restrictions imposed on trading in yen, the amount allowed to leave, etc., as it is not a currency that is completely open to international markets.. And if China wants to make its currency a hard currency in circulation and competing with the dollar, it must first lift all restrictions and manipulations, which is almost impossible given that China will lose its control over exports. Secondly, it is not ready to hold its currency hostage to international trades and global financial markets. In the end, great risks in exchange for goals that may not succeed, and when you see the matter from the perspective of Japan and the Germany to a lesser extent, the globalization of the currency does not always bring results. It may create crises in some cases that are difficult for a country to control (such as Japan in the nineties for example)..

Finally, here comes the actual superiority of the dollar (so far!), which is a legal, institutional and organizational superiority.. We can talk about the stupidity of politicians in the Western world until tomorrow, but no one can deny complete transparency and the tight and legal regulation of the US Federal Bank.. the confidence of international institutions and countries In the dollar, stems from these characteristics + besides that, a diversified, open and integrated economy makes the dollar’s dominance an inevitable security for a long time.. Even the global system followed the same approach. IF IT WORKS WHY CHANGE IT?

Recently, some theories have emerged that the dollar will lose its hegemony due to the sanctions on the Russian Central Bank, which showed everyone that the countries that own the stored currencies have complete control over that money, and that many countries will look for another refuge to avoid such scenarios. The matter is complicated. For example, the Russian Central Bank was offered to seize cash holdings by all countries that own hard currency, not just US dollar, (euro, yen, Japanese pound, Canadian and Australian dollars), and even going to some alternatives, such as gold, a limited precedent, because even storing gold when you want to sell it You will be obliged to sell it in the international markets that use the currencies that you are punished with, and even if you want to sell it to a friendly or neutral country such as China for example, then China must be in need or willing to buy that gold from you, otherwise why would they buy it as well? Or it can give you a lower price than the international market in order to sell it more expensive than that, but in this case what is the use of this stock of yours in the first place if you will sell it at a loss?

In sum: the world is not only Europe and America, but the western economy (North America + Europe + Australia + Japan and Korea) constitutes 75% of the global economy, and any alliance of these countries against any party is very influential .. the world is multipolar since a while, but the poles are not equal, and the West Pole is eerily huge and horribly controlled..

But luckily, resources, raw materials and the largest human mass are outside this pole, which creates a kind of balance..

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Wow !



Russia bombs deliberatly civilians, uses chemical weapons, starts wars to incorporate land ect. There is very low standards regarding human rights.



Ich said:


> Well, the money of your parents wont save you from the masses...



73% of germans support cut of russian gas.

Some communist eastern germans are not the masses


----------



## Knockingdoors

Apollon said:


> Russia bombs deliberatly civilians, uses chemical weapons, starts wars to incorporate land ect. There is very low standards regarding human rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 73% of germans support cut of russian gas.
> 
> Some communist eastern germans are not the masses



We will be effected massively tho and I was reading a report saying we could only first cycle completely off the Russian gas by 2027


----------



## Wood

200 Belarusian volunteers fighting against Russia 



Knockingdoors said:


> We will be effected massively tho and I was reading a report saying we could only first cycle completely off the Russian gas by 2027


How low can temperatures get in Germany? Do your homes typically have a fireplace?


----------



## Knockingdoors

Wood said:


> How low can temperatures get in Germany? Do your homes typically have a fireplace?



Fireplace? 

What do you think this is the 17-18 century?

The weather is not overly cold like other places such as Poland, Belarus, Ukraine or Russia itself it is more like UK, Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium. It is cold but moderate cold.

We still need heating systems inside every house during the winter to keep the room temperature at average 20-25 degrades celisus


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508592726819942410

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508646896595836931


Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508763939538186245



Russian soldiers who were looting an Ukrainian carpet shop were killed by Ukrainian forces.



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508763572691779584




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508754905749725185

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## jhungary

Roman Abramovich 'was TARGET of poisoning in Kremlin warning'


Christo Grozev, lead Russia investigator for the investigative news outlet Bellingcat, said the billionaire oligarch was not supposed to die in the poisoning.




www.dailymail.co.uk





Roman Abramovich 'was the TARGET of peace-talk "chocolate poisoning" that left him temporarily blind and shedding skin: Attack was 'a warning not to betray the Kremlin', investigator behind shocking revelation claims​

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508753694711586824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508743487944118273

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508757928584568833

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## TNT

This war is helpful in exposing many. Firstly it exposed the hypocrisy of west. It also exposed reality of many so called Pakistanis, who live in west. It proved how loyal these ppl are to the west, even though claiming to care for Pakistan. 
If we see india for comparison, they follow their govt line and most indians are pro russia in this war, even the ones living abroad. While Pakistanis living abroad are pro west and going against Pakistan govt position. This is the reason we remove dual nationals from our govt positions, most of these ppl are more loyal to the new country. It seems Pakistan will not be on good terms with the west in the near future, in this case, mostly these dual nationals will be used against Pakistan and most of them will be happy to backstab Pakistan. Imran khan as usual is a fool and gave power to dual nationals, i hope all that is reversed. I say they should not even be allowed to vote.

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## Apollon

Knockingdoors said:


> We will be effected massively tho and I was reading a report saying we could only first cycle completely off the Russian gas by 2027



Its war, in war one has to accept thats its not without casualties

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## Vergennes




----------



## Knockingdoors

Apollon said:


> Its war, in war one has to accept thats its not without casualties



You spoken like a true war time hero.. way to go


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508749280659623946

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508762430570217477

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## Vergennes

lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508778059289313286
@F-22Raptor @RescueRanger

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## Wood

Knockingdoors said:


> Fireplace?
> 
> *What do you think this is the 17-18 century?*
> 
> The weather is not overly cold like other places such as Poland, Belarus, Ukraine or Russia itself it is more like UK, Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium. It is cold but moderate cold.
> 
> We still need heating systems inside every house during the winter to keep the room temperature at average 20-25 degrades celisus


We have fireplace in most Canadian homes. I have 2 in my home but don't use it. My neighbors do use their fireplace at home. It is not such an archaic thing as you seem to think.

If you do not have heating, what will be the likely room temperature in winter?

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Russia bombs deliberatly civilians, uses chemical weapons,



Where has this happened ?



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508753694711586824



I thought Russia has lot of gold. Well, at least the USSR seemed to have.



Vergennes said:


> View attachment 828403



And what is he wearing on his eyes ?


----------



## Knockingdoors

Wood said:


> We have fireplace in most Canadian homes. I have 2 in my home but don't use it. My neighbors do use their fireplace at home. It is not such an archaic thing as you seem to think.
> 
> If you do not have heating, what will be the likely room temperature in winter?



If you have fireplace that means you live in the country side or in small towns. Yes you could find these here but not many but there is no such thing as fireplace in urban areas in whole of north Europe and I mean places like Germany, Netherlands, Belguim, Denmark, UK, France, Switzerland and Austria..

... Exception being You could find them in Sweden and Norway to some degree as many live in remote areas.


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Where has this happened ?
> 
> 
> 
> I thought Russia has lot of gold. Well, at least the USSR seemed to have.
> 
> 
> 
> And what is he wearing on his eyes ?



In Mariupol and countless other cities did they bomb civilians. They used chemical weapons in syria and in Salisbury


----------



## jhungary

jamahir said:


> And what is he wearing on his eyes ?


PVS-31 advance Night Vision Optics





__





PVS 31 Night Vision Goggles | Spec Ops Gear


The L3 Harris AN / PVS 31 A is a NVG used by Special Forces. It is known for its light weight, rugged design & gen 3 image intensifier tubes.



specopsgear.com





Those are intended for Spec Ops.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508774894275862535


----------



## Wood

Knockingdoors said:


> If you have fireplace that means you live in the country side or in small towns. Yes you could find these here but not many *but there is no such thing as fireplace in urban areas in whole of north Europe *and I mean places like Germany, Netherlands, Belguim, Denmark, UK, France, Switzerland and Austria..
> 
> ... Exception being You could find them in Sweden and Norway to some degree as many live in remote areas.


.. that is interesting to know. In Canada, we have fire place in developed big cities as well. I live in a big city, not by the country side.

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## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> View attachment 828403


Those PVS-31 aren't cheap, they are probably as good as GPNVG-18, but you can buy them on Civilian Market (only for US Citizens) Think one of them will set you back up to $20,000 USD (Compare to PVS-14 I used in Iraq and Afghanistan cost around $3000)

That's some serious SF gear the Ukrainian have there.

And he is most likely using Mk18 with Navy Crane stock. I think this operator was equipped by a Navy SEALs


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508774250412638216


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> In Mariupol and countless other cities did they bomb civilians.



LOL, did they ? In fact it is the Ukranian military doing all that.



Apollon said:


> They used chemical weapons in syria



When ?



Apollon said:


> and in Salisbury



Where is this and when was this ?



jhungary said:


> PVS-31 advance Night Vision Optics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PVS 31 Night Vision Goggles | Spec Ops Gear
> 
> 
> The L3 Harris AN / PVS 31 A is a NVG used by Special Forces. It is known for its light weight, rugged design & gen 3 image intensifier tubes.
> 
> 
> 
> specopsgear.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those are intended for Spec Ops.



Ah yes. Well, I asked because I thought he was wearing them on the eyes in day time for melodramatic posing purposes but I now saw that he has pushed them up from the eyes and he is wearing regular glasses. My mistake.


----------



## Paul2

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508730399874236417



Only light mororised, no armour


----------



## Apollon

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508774894275862535



I see it as distraction. Russia is not trustworthy. Remember how they lied other world leaders straight in the face even one day before invasion

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> LOL, did they ? In fact it is the Ukranian military doing all that.
> 
> 
> 
> When ?
> 
> 
> 
> Where is this and when was this ?
> 
> 
> 
> Ah yes. Well, I asked because I thought he was wearing them on the eyes in day time for melodramatic posing purposes but I now saw that he has pushed them up from the eyes and he is wearing regular glasses. My mistake.



Salisbury is in the UK. It basicly was novichok attack on a former russian agent


----------



## Vergennes

Apollon said:


> I see it as distraction. Russia is not trustworthy. Remember how they lied other world leaders straight in the face even one day before invasion



Actually they might indeed (given the attrition) see their objectives downward and redeploy forces to concentrate on securing the donbass region,Ukraine must secure these directions and avoid its forces in the east to be encircled.

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## jhungary

jamahir said:


> Ah yes. Well, I asked because I thought he was wearing them on the eyes in day time for melodramatic posing purposes but I now saw that he has pushed them up from the eyes and he is wearing regular glasses. My mistake.


They were on the side of the eyes.....You slide it down when you use it.

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## coffee_cup

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508774250412638216



This is a good news!

Seems like talks are going in the right direction and hope that they come to some kind of compromise!


----------



## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> They look nice.
> 
> Can I borrow one of your pair which you were wearing while doing Spec Ops and jumped out of the helicopter at 10000m without parachute in Afghanistan?


Really? Trolling have a level don't you think?

I am answering the guy's question. I mean, you have to be quite stupid to try to troll that.

Or are you going to say I look it up on the internet? Dude, you need to know what is that to look it up, I don't think you know what that is other than that is a NVG when you first look at the picture.

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## Muhammed45

Chechen brothers signing Allhu Akbar Song while conquering parts of Mariupol 









فیلم/ شعار الله اکبر نظامیان روسیه در اوکراین


لشکر چچنی‌ها بخشی از عملیات تصرف ماریوپول اوکراین اوکراین را بر عهده دارند. جمهوری چچن یکی از مناطق خودمختار روسیه به مرکزیت گروزنی است و اکثر جمعیت آن را مسلمانان تشکیل می دهند.




www.mashreghnews.ir






The facial Expression of these Muslim lions is enough for Azov NAZIs to shit in their pants

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## Broccoli

gambit said:


> Why not? Why no one helped the Taliban?



Talibans never had anything more than few Chinese flir sights for their guns and what they captured or bought from corrupted Afghan army commanders. Nobody send them modern ATGM's or manpads.


----------



## Wood

Apollon said:


> I see it as distraction. Russia is not trustworthy. Remember how they lied other world leaders straight in the face even one day before invasion


It is likely true. The Russians are spread too thin and they want to consolidate their gains and hope for negotiated outcome.

Ukraine should try to focus on defending their coastline. Putin will not be willing to offer it back in negotiation. It will have to rested back by force if Ukraine is ever destined to get it back.

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## The SC

Paul2 said:


> Only light mororised, no armour


Even lighter than that for street fights..

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Salisbury is in the UK. It basicly was novichok attack on a former russian agent



Ah that. Didn't CIA try so many times to assassinate Fidel Castro and Saddam Hussein ?

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> Really? Trolling have a level don't you think?
> 
> I am answering the guys question. I mean, you have to be quite stupid to try to troll that.



Now that you mention the price, just thinking about it.

How many of those have ended up with Talibans? 

This looks like some seriously expensive shyt...must be available in the black market near Afghan border, I am sure. LOL


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508746216447827970

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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> Now that you mention the price, just thinking about it.
> 
> How many of those have ended up with Talibans?
> 
> This looks like some seriously expensive shyt...must be available in the black market near Afghan border, I am sure. LOL


None of them ended up with Taliban, They were ITAR item, not transferred to Afghanistan. Afghan force had some PVS-14 or PVS-18. 

Dude, maybe you should do some Homework before you post here. You look stupid.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508776237099106308


----------



## Wood

The SC said:


> Even lighter than that for street fights..


NATO should start supplying RPG to Ukraine. No need for expensive gadgets


----------



## DF41

From my WhatsApp 

: Russia MUST win, or the future of humanity is at stake…………., and the Asian Century will be OVER at its infancy! 



World Affairs
Objective, Nonpartisan and Insightful
New World Order 2.0 is Inevitable

The attack on Russia is the biggest geopolitical gamble in America’s history. If it succeeds, America will be the indisputable hegemon of the world, leading to a truly one-world government. On the other hand, if it fails, the American Century and the U.S. dollar’s status as the global currency will collapse unceremoniously. We are living through a momentous and dangerous arc of history.

Time is running out for America

Let’s start with the big picture. America’s preeminence is rapidly fading. The US’ share of global GDP is shrinking, and America’s debt is exploding. How long can the US dollar enjoy its “exorbitant privelege”? Max 10-15 years. America’s democracy is also faltering and the country is deeply divided.

Meanwhile, anti-American forces like China, Russia, and Iran are getting stronger. Russia has hypersonic missiles with multiple nuclear warheads that US missile defense systems cannot stop. China’s GDP is whopping $18 trillion now. And if Europe has peaceful relations with Russia (provider of cheap energy) and China (provider of cheap manufactured goods), the so-called Eurasia will have an economy twice as large as the US’. Even vassal states like Saudi Arabia are now starting to rebel, daring to sell oil for Yuan. Thus, something has to be done.

Plan A: Contain China

The US tried to contain and decouple from China during the Trump administration. However, that failed miserably: USA-China trade was whopping $650 billion in 2021. The next option could have been to isolate China by pulling Russia away from China’s orbit. Sort of like what President Eisenhower did when he invited the Soviet leader Khrushchev to the White House in 1959. (In 1972, Nixon did the divide-and-conquer in the other way by allying with China and isolating the USSR).

Plan B: Crush Russia, Strengthen Dollar

Instead, the U.S. went for the jugular, trying to “cancel” Russia and turn Putin into another Kim Kong Un, a global pariah. This astounding strategy must have been planned for a long time, since in a matter of days, almost every Western corporation ended its relations with Russia. The West cut off Russia from SWIFT – the global financial system – and stole more than half of Russia’s hard-earned foreign exchange reserves. It’s a bit surprising that Russia didn’t start bombing Europe and the U.S. (These are the kinds of provocations that led Japan to attack Pearl Harbor).

The chaos that ensues from this shock-and-awe economic warfare could help the U.S. by weakening Europe, crippling Russia, and strengthening the U.S. dollar, which will be seen as the safe-haven. Ironically, even though the U.S. just proved that it can seize assets any time it wants, the U.S. dollar will benefit in the short term. However, over the long term, this may backfire spectacularly (more on that later).

If you look at which countries are America’s enemies, they all have one thing in common: They don’t have U.S. military bases. And they have independent foreign policies, independent media etc. If you’re a country that is free from Facebook, Coca Cola, Goldman Sachs, and Lockheed Martin, you will be enemy #1.

What happens next?

Well, Putin seems safe. There may not be a coup in Russia anytime soon. He will win the war in Ukraine and probably chop up Ukraine in half. The eastern half will become a new country or will get absorbed into Russia. Securing Crimea and Black Sea is a matter of survival for Russia. Then, he will start to negotiate with Europe.

Russia has a lot of leverage. It’s not North Korea. Russia — and more so, when combined with Ukraine —is the world’s leading exporter of not only oil and natural gas, but also wheat, fertilizer, corn, sunflower oil, titanium (used by Boeing), processed neon (used in semiconductors), palladium and many more crucial metals. Germany’s economic minister predicted “mass unemployment, poverty, people who can’t heat their homes, people who run out of petrol” if his country stopped using Russian oil and gas.

It’s possible that there will be riots in many developing nations due to shortages of food, fertilizer, and energy. Perhaps the CIA will use this as an excuse to do a whole bunch of regime changes?

China will protect Russia

As for China, it won’t let Russia collapse. If Putin gets replaced by an American puppet, the 6000+ Russian nukes will be pointed at China and not at the US. And there will be missile defense systems on Russia-China border, similar to those in South Korea. China’s energy security will also be severely threatened, as the new Russia can turn off the oil/gas pipelines at critical times. Moreover, half of China’s Belt and Road (BRI) trains to Europe go through Russia. Finally, if Russia falls, other Central Asian countries like Kazakhstan will become US puppets as well. Without Russia, the CCP’s future will be very shaky.

Unipolar v. Multipolar

If Russia falls, the entire world has to accept America as the supreme leader of the world. It will be unipolar moment 2.0 on steroids. Europe will eventually benefit from this hegemony, although European leaders will be the junior dictators.

America is trying to choke the multipolar world at infancy. Honestly, I don’t know if the world leaders have the balls or integrity to stand up to this totalitarian future of a one-world government. I don’t see the leaders of the Global South openly condemning the West’s provocations or the unprecedented sanctions on Russia. Although, some countries like India are quietly resisting by buying Russian oil/gas. And the BRICS ministers met in Moscow yesterday. The timid ones who don’t speak out or act now will have their heads eventually on the chopping block if they are not completely subservient to the US.

American Imperialism

America started out as an anti-imperialist and idealist country with 13 states and 3 million people. But it forgot its roots and kept expanding in North America for the next century. After 1900, it joined the race for colonialism — subjugating Latin America and even colonizing the Philippines. Thanks to WW1 and WW2, the U.S. took over all the European colonies and created a more sophisticated empire built around finance and behind-the-scene military bases.

America is now the world’s most powerful empire with 800 military bases in 140 countries, enormous stranglehold on information due to conventional and social media, and an overwhelming hegemony over the global financial system. And Europe is a quiet but vital player in this scheme. But nothing lasts forever and everything is replaceable. If America and Europe are determined to hold on to the imperialist and colonialist powers rather than share powers, the world will have a terrifying future.

NWO and an Uncertain Future

If the West wins, we will have a totalitarian nightmare of one world government, one world currency, and one world technocracy (like the World Economic Forum and their Great Reset plans). And America’s absurd and dysfunctional social engineering will be shoved down the throats of people worldwide as well. (“Who is a woman? Well, I don’t know, I am not a biologist”).

How can the West lose? One short-term possibility is by getting nuked by Russian missiles. The other long-term possibility: Russia survives and works with China and other developing countries to create an alternative system that circumvents Western finance, media, technology, and military. Already, the American delusion of quick collapse of the Ruble has been thwarted by Putin’s calm and strategic moves (for example, Putin is now demanding Rubles for natural gas. Europe depends on Russia for 40% of natural gas and about 30% of oil and coal. Theoretically, Russia can introduce PetroRuble to challenge the almighty petrodollar!).

Russia is a proud country with 1000+ years of remarkable history. Putin is not going to let Russia disintegrate and vanish from history. If Russia is on the verge of oblivion, it will nuke America for sure, and perhaps Germany. If pushed to a corner, Russia can and will use its hypersonic missiles to obliterate all the major American cities.

America is an Empire of Lies that peddles fake news, toxic food, harmful medicines from Big Pharma, oligarchy dressed up as democracy, imperialism pretending to spread freedom, and illusion of wealth that is founded upon the dollar’s global status, exploding debt and money-printing.

There is no going back now. The globalists have started WW3, which has been so far limited to economic and financial warfare. There will be a New World Order 2.0. There will be vicious struggles to determine the future of all nations.

The future of humanity is at stake…

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508782290704519175

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508783234884280330

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508784104791330819

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508785134203551749

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## coffee_cup

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508746216447827970



Paranoia seems like having no limits! 

Dont they themselves kill the negotiators? 

And why would anyone want to poison the negotiators at all? They are not so significant in the hierarchy. 

And are they accusing the host nation Turkey of foul play? This is pathetic!


----------



## K_Bin_W

Wood said:


> NATO should start supplying RPG to Ukraine. No need for expensive gadgets


What is this "Z" sign on the pickups?


----------



## mmr

Wood said:


> It is likely true. The Russians are spread too thin and they want to consolidate their gains and hope for negotiated outcome.
> 
> Ukraine should try to focus on defending their coastline. Putin will not be willing to offer it back in negotiation. It will have to rested back by force if Ukraine is ever destined to get it back.


Its a trap. They are trying to buy time. 

West need to keep re arming Ukraine no matter what putler say. And keep up economic pressures as much as possible on russia.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508770769211301890


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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> Paranoia seems like having no limits!
> 
> Dont they themselves kill the negotiators?
> 
> And why would anyone want to poison the negotiators at all? They are not so significant in the hierarchy.
> 
> And are they accusing the host nation Turkey of foul play? This is pathetic!


You do know Roman Abramovich and 3 Ukrainian Negotiator were just confirmed to be poisoned in the last Peace Talk, right??









Roman Abramovich lost sight for hours in poison attack


RUSSIAN billionaire and Chelsea FC owner Roman Abramovich has allegedly suffered an attempt to poison him.




www.express.co.uk





It's not Paranoia when someone is actually out to get you.

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## Wood

K_Bin_W said:


> What is this "Z" sign on the pickups?


They have different symbols for different type of operational forces. I've seen 'Z', 'V' and 'O' so far. 'Z' seems to be their main invasion force - I've assumed that they are marines equivalent.


----------



## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> None of them ended up with Taliban, They were ITAR item, not transferred to Afghanistan. Afghan force had some PVS-14 or PVS-18.
> 
> Dude, maybe you should do some Homework before you post here. You look stupid.



So you are saying that US does not allow her soldiers in the most dangerous environments to be equipped with state of the art equipment because of ITAR? 

C'mon dude, you can do better than that. May be time to handover to the other person operating this popaganda account . LOL.


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## Messerschmitt

mmr said:


> Its a trap. They are trying to buy time.
> 
> West need to keep re arming Ukraine no matter what putler say. And keep up economic pressures as much as possible on russia.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508786627648360452

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> You do know Roman Abramovich and 3 Ukrainian Negotiator were just confirmed to be poisoned in the last Peace Talk, right??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roman Abramovich lost sight for hours in poison attack
> 
> 
> RUSSIAN billionaire and Chelsea FC owner Roman Abramovich has allegedly suffered an attempt to poison him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.express.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not Paranoia when someone is actually out to get you.



"has allegedly suffered"

says it all. 

Yes, right we should just buy into whatever shyt the Western media spreads.

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## Wood

mmr said:


> Its a trap. They are trying to buy time.
> 
> West need to keep re arming Ukraine no matter what putler say. And keep up economic pressures as much as possible on russia.


I suspect that this war will come to an end with some type of a deal that both sides can claim a 'win' domestically. Russia is already seen preparing to swallow its pride. Loss of coastline will likely be Ukraine's biggest loss in war. Ukraine may join EU but promise to not join NATO. Sanctions on Russia will be removed as part of the deal. 

But strategically, Europe's foreign policy of using trade integration to guarantee security will not work anymore. Germany at least will frantically move towards alternate energy sources on full speed.

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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> So you are saying that US does not allow her soldiers in the most dangerous environments to be equipped with state of the art equipment because of ITAR?
> 
> C'mon dude, you can do better than that. May be time to handover to the other person operating this popaganda account . LOL.


First, they are only issued to US Special Force. They were not even issued to normal US force, US forces uses PVS-18 near the end of 2021. Which you can buy in any walmart for around $4000

Secondly, no US Special Force uses PVS-31 in Afghanistan because of the terrain and low light intensity would favor GPNVG-18. not PVS-31. There is a reason why GPNVG-18 is 4 tubes and PVS-31 is 2 tubes, I will let you figure that out why.

Thirdly, apparently, you know shit all about Night Vision Goggle.

Actually, I want you to talk more, because the more you talk only demonstrate the lack of knowledge on the subject matters.


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Ah that. Didn't CIA tried so many times to assassinate Fidel Castro and Saddam Hussein ?



In UK? Most likely not.


----------



## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> "has allegedly suffered"
> 
> says it all.
> 
> Yes, right we should just buy into whatever shyt the Western media spreads.


Right, you do know that is not "Western Propaganda" as Roman Abramovich no longer live in the UK, he went back to Russia after sanction, he was treated in Russia for that, so unless you are calling Russian Hospital a liar. 

Secondly, even if that is "allegedly" suffered from Poison, what's wrong with being diligent?


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## Vergennes

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508730399874236417
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508728565545816065



Didn't last long it seems lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508788128370368515

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## SuvarnaTeja

gambit said:


> Anyone remember the Kolchuga supposedly 'anti-stealth' radar manufactured in Ukraine? It was a huge buzz that seemingly meant the end of 'stealth'. Never mind that the system, while looked good on paper, was at best spotty in application. But now, the US is guaranteed to get our hands on it, from paper to machine.



Is it time then for US to stop lecturing others on Intellectual Property Rights?

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508658145349947395


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## Vergennes

Muhammed45 said:


> Chechen brothers signing Allhu Akbar Song while conquering parts of Mariupol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> فیلم/ شعار الله اکبر نظامیان روسیه در اوکراین
> 
> 
> لشکر چچنی‌ها بخشی از عملیات تصرف ماریوپول اوکراین اوکراین را بر عهده دارند. جمهوری چچن یکی از مناطق خودمختار روسیه به مرکزیت گروزنی است و اکثر جمعیت آن را مسلمانان تشکیل می دهند.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mashreghnews.ir
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The facial Expression of these Muslim lions is enough for Azov NAZIs to shit in their pants
> 
> View attachment 828418



LMAO,Kadyrov's lapdogs are only good for propaganda purposes and firing on empty buildings and acting as an occupation force,those dudes are skipping real fights and this is even confirmed by Russian sources. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505576545057869826
Ironically a donbass field commander,Khodakovsky accused the Chechens of skipping real fights so magically Kadyrov's henchman Delimkhanov "talked" with him and now says Chechens do fight and even say "ahmad sila" on camera.

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## Meengla

Wood said:


> It is likely true. The Russians are spread too thin and they want to consolidate their gains and hope for negotiated outcome.
> 
> Ukraine should try to focus on defending their coastline. Putin will not be willing to offer it back in negotiation.* It will have to rested back by force if Ukraine is ever destined to get it back.*



Yes.
And Ukraine should be careful about the fall of Odessa. With Russian forces and reinforcements moving south and east, the temptation to take Odessa and make Ukraine a land-locked country with huge consequences for Ukraine. Already Mariupol is all but gone and there is a land link between Russia and Crimea.
Russians apparently are not averse to shedding their blood to get concessions; they did similar things to Finland in late 1930s and eventually got the required concessions after paying a heavy price.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508770413731590152
He's alive!


----------



## mmr

Wood said:


> I suspect that this war will come to an end with some type of a deal that both sides can claim a 'win' domestically. Russia is already seen preparing to swallow its pride. Loss of coastline will likely be Ukraine's biggest loss in war. Ukraine may join EU but promise to not join NATO. Sanctions on Russia will be removed as part of the deal.
> 
> But strategically, Europe's foreign policy of using trade integration to guarantee security will not work anymore. Germany at least will frantically move towards alternate energy sources on full speed.


I dont think sanctions will removed any time soon unless Russia pay damages which will be almost all the seize assets.

Ukraine wont give up any territory either. Ukraine ppl wont accept that deal if they give up territory.

The deal will probably be like Ukraine wont join Nato and Russia withdrawal. of course to make that happen Ukraine need to keep fighting and west will ensure Russia bleed economically.

This will only not only change Germany but entire west. Canada just announced buying F 35 after dragging its feet for 6 years. You can see every country in west now doing 180 u turn. This war basically will start cold war 2.0 and end of globalization.










New world order? Pandemic and war rattle globalization.


The pandemic already had many questioning the economic model, but the war in Ukraine is further destabilizing production and trade routes.




www.japantimes.co.jp





New world order? Pandemic and war rattle globalization.​

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> Secondly, even if that is "allegedly" suffered from Poison, what's wrong with being diligent?



I agree with that. Everyone should be diligent, especially when they go to the USA, they should not eat or drink or touch anything. 

CIA is world-famous for foul play. Hugo Chavez had to find out in a sad way, :-(

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## Vergennes

Seems like Russia's objective to decapitate Zelensky's government ("neo nazis ruling Kyiv") has failed


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508790889631686663

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## SuvarnaTeja

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508770413731590152
> He's alive!



Get rid of all the Generals who are competing for his post.

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## jhungary

Meengla said:


> Yes.
> And Ukraine should be careful about the fall of Odessa. With Russian forces and reinforcements moving south and east, the temptation to take Odessa and make Ukraine a land-locked country with huge consequences for Ukraine. Already Mariupol is all but gone and there is a land link between Russia and Crimea.
> Russians apparently are not averse to shedding their blood to get concessions; they did similar things to Finland in late 1930s and eventually got the required concessions after paying a heavy price.


There are no way to attack Odessa unless the Russian took Mykolaiv, you need a land component to support that amphibious operation, otherwise you are just going to send your troop into a slaughter piecemeal.

The chances for a complete landlocking Ukraine is probably gone, and depend on Russian lost fighting in Mariupol, they may not be able to hold the city when Ukrainian counter attack, and they had already started the counter attack in Kherson. 

As I said before, the key is see who have done their part first, if Ukrainian retake Kherson, then Mariupol operation are all but over because Russia need to draw troop back to Crimea for defence otherwise they may lose it. On the other hand, depends on how much Russian and Ukrainian loss in Mariupol, the Russian force may be spent if they lost too much for taking the town. Then it will be open for counter attacks Either from Kherson or from Zaporizhzhia or both, Depends on battleground intelligence.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508787161021227012

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508787898065342466

The Russian northern axis has been a complete and utter failure for Russia.

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## Ich

Apollon said:


> 73% of germans support cut of russian gas.
> 
> Some communist eastern germans are not the masses



From where did you get these numbers? From the same source you offered and which i destroyed some pages ago?

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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> I agree with that. Everyone should be diligent, especially when they go to the USA, they should not eat or drink or touch anything.
> 
> CIA is world-famous for foul play. Hugo Chavez had to find out in a sad way, :-(


I don't really care if you don't eat or drink anything when you go to the US. You want to starve to death in the US is your call, I mean, you can do whatever the hell you want in the US, even committing suicide. Not the same I can say In Venezuela or Russia.


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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508787161021227012
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508787898065342466
> 
> The Russian northern axis has been a complete and utter failure for Russia.



Some here will tell you "It's going according to the plan".

Russia has failed to decapitate Kyiv government and are even considering their objectives downward according to the financial time.... Russia withdrawn its demands about Ukraine's demilitarization and "denazification" and the status of the Russian language of Ukraine. Now they are no longer against Ukraine's will to join the EU. Big if confirmed.

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## Meengla

mmr said:


> I dont think sanctions will removed any time soon unless Russia pay damages which will be almost all the seize assets.
> 
> Ukraine wont give up any territory either. Ukraine ppl wont accept that deal if they give up territory.
> 
> The deal will probably be like Ukraine wont join Nato and Russia withdrawal. of course to make that happen Ukraine need to keep fighting and west will ensure Russia bleed economically.



Agreed. 


jhungary said:


> There are no way to attack Odessa unless the Russian took Mykolaiv, you need a land component to support that amphibious operation, otherwise you are just going to send your troop into a slaughter piecemeal.
> 
> The chances for a complete landlocking Ukraine is probably gone, and depend on Russian lost fighting in Mariupol, they may not be able to hold the city when Ukrainian counter attack, and they had already started the counter attack in Kherson.
> 
> As I said before, the key is see who have done their part first, if Ukrainian retake Kherson, then Mariupol operation are all but over because Russia need to draw troop back to Crimea for defence otherwise they may lose it. On the other hand, depends on how much Russian and Ukrainian loss in Mariupol, the Russian force may be spent if they lost too much for taking the town. Then it will be open for counter attacks Either from Kherson or from Zaporizhzhia or both, Depends on battleground intelligence.



Good analysis. And perhaps Russia wouldn't care about Odessa as long as they have a strongly defendable land access from Crimea to Donbass region and I think they still have the power to achieve that goal. It will be a 'consolation' prize but looks like both parties ready to wind down.

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> Some here will tell you "It's going according to the plan".
> 
> Russia has failed to decapitate Kyiv government and are even considering their objectives downward according to the financial time.... Russia withdrawn its demands about Ukraine's demilitarization and "denazification" and the status of the Russian language of Ukraine. Now they are no longer against Ukraine's will to join the EU. Big if confirmed.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508787164389257220

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> In UK? Most likely not.



So if CIA does its assassinations only in Britain will you accept that CIA does wrong ?



Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508658145349947395



Only in the drone world you live in. Don't you know for example of Syrians who have already fought in Ukraine alongside Russians ?



Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508770413731590152
> He's alive!



I think I told you and your other shameless NATO mouthpiece comrades on PDF some days ago that he visited a military hospital in Russia to award Russian combatants including two females.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508770769211301890

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> I don't really care if you don't eat or drink anything when you go to the US. You want to starve to death in the US is your call, I mean, you can do whatever the hell you want in the US, even committing suicide. Not the same I can say In Venezuela or Russia.



Dont take it personal, but I have to ask: Are you really that dumb?

Of course I am not writing about myself but about diplomats from not so friendly nations going to US. If you cant even figure that out, your employers should seriously think about hiring some better trolls.

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## jhungary

Meengla said:


> Agreed.
> 
> 
> Good analysis. And perhaps Russia wouldn't care about Odessa as long as they have a strongly defendable land access from Crimea to Donbass region and I think they still have the power to achieve that goal. It will be a 'consolation' prize but looks like both parties ready to wind down.


Again, it really depends on how much troop Russian got left after they took Mariupol. And whether or not they would be replaced by another BTG or 2.

On the other hand, I am not too sure whether or not the repositioning of Russia force is doable, essentially they are pulling troop elsewhere in the country to try to refocus on the south, which mean it will also free up Ukrainian Force for counter attack. So this is a two way street for what Russia is doing.

I don't know whether or not Russia have strategic reserve (or just in case troop) to use for this refocusing operation, but judging from several fact that I would think they don't as I don't think the war is going to go this way instead of a quick victories. If this is the case, then Russia would have a tough fight to keep the area they held at the moment.



coffee_cup said:


> Dont take it personal, but I have to ask: Are you really that dumb?
> 
> Of course I am not writing about myself but about diplomats from not so friendly nations going to US. If you cant even figure that out, your employers should seriously think about hiring some better trolls.


Well, you should ask yourself that question, or go back to school

It wouldn't take an English wizard to see the use of "You" in generic, it does not mean you. Why would I tell "you" what to do when I am talking about people in travelling in America in general, I don't think you had told me you plan to go there

Or you are saying the US only allowing "YOU" to starve to death and not anyone else if they choose to??

Dude, try harder next time LOL


----------



## jamahir

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508770769211301890



Yes, American "volunteers".


----------



## mmr

Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov on Ukraine and the West: 'Don't push us into the corner'


President Biden on Monday stood by his comments over the weekend that Russia's Vladimir Putin "cannot remain in power" as Ukraine President Zelensky said he was open to discussing neutrality for his nation in exchange for a ceasefire. Special correspondent Ryan Chilcote talked with President...




www.pbs.org





Putin’s spokesman Dmitry Peskov on Ukraine and the West: ‘Don’t push us into the corner’​
I guess sanctions start to bite.

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## Wood

mmr said:


> I dont think sanctions will removed any time soon unless Russia pay damages which will be almost all the seize assets.
> 
> Ukraine wont give up any territory either. Ukraine ppl wont accept that deal if they give up territory.
> 
> The deal will probably be like Ukraine wont join Nato and Russia withdrawal.
> 
> This will not change only change Germany but entire west. Canada just announced buying F 35 after dragging its feet for 6 years. You can see every country in west now doing 180 u turn. This war basically will start cold war 2.0 and end of globalization.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New world order? Pandemic and war rattle globalization.
> 
> 
> The pandemic already had many questioning the economic model, but the war in Ukraine is further destabilizing production and trade routes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.japantimes.co.jp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New world order? Pandemic and war rattle globalization.​


Removal of sanctions is one of the primary motivations for Russia to engage in a negotiated settlement. I don't think Russia will want to negotiate without removal of sanctions as an outcome. Despite what some people here say, no country can hope to have a thriving economy without globalized trade. Russia has lost access to their supply chains now and cannot recover from it so easily.

As for Ukraine's demand to have all its territory back, I don't blame them. But let's face this - No country will be willing to give up hard fought territory so easily after having lost its soldiers for it. Only time when countries move back is when they don't feel confident of being able to hold their territory. Like how Russia is moving back for consolidation right now.


----------



## Apollon

Ich said:


> From where did you get these numbers? From the same source you offered and which i destroyed some pages ago?



We wont pay in ruble



https://background.tagesspiegel.de/energie-klima/g7-und-unternehmen-verweigern-rubel-zahlung



And medium term will completly push russia out of european energy markets. 

Would you describe putlers war as sucess?

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> Well, you should ask yourself that question, or go back to school
> 
> It wouldn't take an English wizard to see the use of "You" in generic, it does not mean you. Why would I tell "you" what to do when I am talking about people in travelling in America in general, I don't think you had told me you plan to go there
> 
> Or you are saying the US only allowing "YOU" to starve to death and not anyone else if they choose to??
> 
> Dude, try harder next time LOL



Now write another 1000 word gibberish about that but everyone knows what you meant and what a lame effort it was to simply distract the focus from "diplomats/negotiators" to "individuals". 

As I said, your employers need to hire better trolls.

Have a nice trolling fest my vietnamese friend... LOL


----------



## Apollon

mmr said:


> Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov on Ukraine and the West: 'Don't push us into the corner'
> 
> 
> President Biden on Monday stood by his comments over the weekend that Russia's Vladimir Putin "cannot remain in power" as Ukraine President Zelensky said he was open to discussing neutrality for his nation in exchange for a ceasefire. Special correspondent Ryan Chilcote talked with President...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pbs.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin’s spokesman Dmitry Peskov on Ukraine and the West: ‘Don’t push us into the corner’​
> I guess sanctions start to bite.



Same guy who said in Interview, that Putin did this to get rid of russia.

😅







I love journalists reaction..."WHAT?! Get rid of Russia?" 

😅

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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> Now write another 1000 word gibberish about that but everyone knows what you meant and what a lame effort it was to simply distract the focus from "diplomats/negotiators" to "individuals".
> 
> As I said, your employers need to hire better trolls.
> 
> Have a nice trolling fest my vietnamese friend... LOL


Well, you failed to see the "YOU" is generic, not me.

That mean you completely mistaken the entire context. Maybe I should post in Urdu from now on so you can understand......Which is worst? My Urdu or Your English?

LOL


----------



## Apollon

Wood said:


> Removal of sanctions is one of the primary motivations for Russia to engage in a negotiated settlement. I don't think Russia will want to negotiate without removal of sanctions as an outcome. Despite what some people here say, no country can hope to have a thriving economy without globalized trade. Russia has lost access to their supply chains now and cannot recover from it so easily.
> 
> As for Ukraine's demand to have all its territory back, I don't blame them. But let's face this - No country will be willing to give up hard fought territory so easily after having lost its soldiers for it. Only time when countries move back is when they don't feel confident of being able to hold their territory. Like how Russia is moving back for consolidation right now.



The sanctions cant be removed as long Putin is president. How you imagine this works? We all forget about it and thats it?

There is zero trust in Putin. What value have deals with him?

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## coffee_cup

jamahir said:


> You say you were a military intelligence officer yet you do not understand nuances and context ? Please follow back the posts and see what I said.



You are expecting too much jamahir, :- )

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## mmr

Wood said:


> Removal of sanctions is one of the primary motivations for Russia to engage in a negotiated settlement. I don't think Russia will want to negotiate without removal of sanctions as an outcome. Despite what some people here say, no country can hope to have a thriving economy without globalized trade. Russia has lost access to their supply chains now and cannot recover from it so easily.
> 
> As for Ukraine's demand to have all its territory back, I don't blame them. But let's face this - No country will be willing to give up hard fought territory so easily after having lost its soldiers for it. Only time when countries move back is when they don't feel confident of being able to hold their territory. Like how Russia is moving back for consolidation right now.


sanction wont be removed. USA wont let that happen.

Russia wont do negotiation settlement for* goodness of heart* lol. They will be forced like any war in the past. Ukraine wont let go any territory and no political party in Ukraine will survive agree to that term.

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> Well, you failed to see the "YOU" is generic, not me.
> 
> That mean you completely mistaken the entire context. Maybe I should post in Urdu from now on so you can understand......Which is worst? My Urdu or Your English?
> 
> LOL



No better write in your own mother language - Vietnamese... may be I will ask my Vietnamese friend to translate it for me. 

:-D


----------



## jhungary

Wood said:


> Removal of sanctions is one of the primary motivations for Russia to engage in a negotiated settlement. I don't think Russia will want to negotiate without removal of sanctions as an outcome. Despite what some people here say, no country can hope to have a thriving economy without globalized trade. Russia has lost access to their supply chains now and cannot recover from it so easily.
> 
> As for Ukraine's demand to have all its territory back, I don't blame them. But let's face this - No country will be willing to give up hard fought territory so easily after having lost its soldiers for it. Only time when countries move back is when they don't feel confident of being able to hold their territory. Like how Russia is moving back for consolidation right now.


I would say Russia want the sanction to bel lifted as much as Ukrainian wanted their sovereign integrity. And I don't mean Post 2014 (with Russia took Crimea and the Donbas separatist) but a Pre-2014 Ukraine.

On the other hand, what can Russia give in this peace talk? Russia so far only captured 2 cities that mean something, and those are their bargaining chips, I don't think given that back would worth the lifting of Sanctions. I will say even after they took Mariupol, that still not worth lifting the sanctions.

The only solution I can see if they made any deal now is to go back to Post 2014 with some Sanction lifted. Otherwise I don't think either side will budge on the issue.



coffee_cup said:


> No better write in your own mother language - Vietnamese... may be I will ask my Vietnamese friend to translate it for me.
> 
> :-D


Well, if you know shit about English, what do you think you know about VIetnamese??

And do you really think calling me Vietnamese would hurt my feeling? LOL?

What a tool....

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## Ali_Baba

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508715826358235137



If they are borrowing Su30s from Armenia - then there maybe an element of truth in those values?


----------



## Apollon

jhungary said:


> I would say Russia want the sanction to bel lifted as much as Ukrainian wanted their sovereign integrity. And I don't mean Post 2014 (with Russia took Crimea and the Donbas separatist) but a Pre-2014 Ukraine.
> 
> On the other hand, what can Russia give in this peace talk? Russia so far only captured 2 cities that mean something, and those are their bargaining chips, I don't think given that back would worth the lifting of Sanctions. I will say even after they took Mariupol, that still not worth lifting the sanctions.
> 
> The only solution I can see if they made any deal now is to go back to Post 2014 with some Sanction lifted. Otherwise I don't think either side will budge on the issue.
> 
> 
> Well, if you know shit about English, what do you think you know about VIetnamese??
> 
> And do you really think calling me Vietnamese would hurt my feeling? LOL?
> 
> What a tool....



There is a bigger issue. Putin sat infron Macron and lied directly in his face. And even worse just two days before invasion sat infront German chancellor Scholz and promised him there wont be an attack.

There simply is no trust in putin left. No matter what he does now, his renomee is completly burned.

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## jhungary

Apollon said:


> There is a bigger issue. Putin sat infron Macron and lied directly in his face. And even worse just two days before invasion sat infront German chancellor Scholz and promised him there wont be an attack.
> 
> There simply is no trust in putin left. No matter what he does now, his renomee is completly burned.


Well, yeah, Trust is gone

I can tell you this tho.

I can see 2 things in the future.

1.) Ukraine and Zelenskyy government is going to stay as an entity, they may be neutral toward Russia or not a NATO member after this, but they will be wary about Russia, if Putin remain in power.

2.) Ukraine will be armed to the teeth like Israel after this

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> Well, if you know shit about English, what do you think you know about VIetnamese??
> 
> And do you really think calling me Vietnamese would hurt my feeling? LOL?
> 
> What a tool....



You spending like 10-15 hours on PDF writing non-stop gibberish, sorta gives it away.

Your employers need better trolls man. At least make it look half believable of what you pretend to be. Should have stopped at being "intelligence officer".

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## Ich

Apollon said:


> We wont pay in ruble
> 
> 
> 
> https://background.tagesspiegel.de/energie-klima/g7-und-unternehmen-verweigern-rubel-zahlung
> 
> 
> 
> And medium term will completly push russia out of european energy markets.
> 
> Would you describe putlers war as sucess?



Ah, suddenly its "medium term"  Medium term means what? 5-10 years? Ooohhh, so how will Germany compensate russian gas end of this year? And the next years? If Germany do not pay in Rubles? No Rubles -> no gas! And there is no other gas delivery in sight.

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## Wood

Apollon said:


> The sanctions cant be removed as long Putin is president. How you imagine this works? We all forget about it and thats it?
> 
> There is zero trust in Putin. What value have deals with him?


Putin will not have much to gain from a negotiated settlement if sanctions are not removed. 

Only other way to bring the war to an end is for NATO to get involved. Otherwise, this war can go on forever. Meanwhile, Ukrainians will die every day. This is something that Zelensky may not want to tolerate.

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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> You spending like 10-15 hours on PDF writing non-stop gibberish, sorta gives it away.
> 
> Your employers need better trolls man. At least make it look half believable of what you pretend to be. Should have stopped at being "intelligence officer".


First of all, I didn't spend 10-15 hours on PDF, nobody does that. 

Second of all, you still know shit all about intelligence, I mean, if you know something, at least you can challenge my word on the issue, but the fact that you avoid being in "Contact" with me make you more like a troll then me. 

I mean, feel free to ask around, and make a fool out of yourself, I don't mind. 

And yes, I mean YOU this time.


----------



## coffee_cup

Ich said:


> Ah, suddenly its "medium term"  Medium term means what? 5-10 years? Ooohhh, so how will Germany compensate russian gas end of this year? And the next years? If Germany do not pay in Rubles? No Rubles -> no gas! And there is no other gas delivery in sight.



Gemany is resisting all the possible pressure at the moment, because lets face it - there is no alternative to Russian gas till at least 2027.

And tbh, Germany/France did not want this war. They tried all they could to stop it, they wont get much out of it.

Anglo-Saxons had their way, like they always do and Germany, Ukraine, Russia and other Europeans have to pay... no prize for guesssing who are the real winners here... *sigh*

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## Wood

mmr said:


> sanction wont be removed. USA wont let that happen.
> 
> Russia wont do negotiation settlement for* goodness of heart* lol. They will be forced like any war in the past. Ukraine wont let go any territory and no political party in Ukraine will survive agree to that term.


Of course, not for goodness of heart. But I think that their motivation to negotiate will be because of the sanctions as much as it is before of their incapability to capture Ukraine.


----------



## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> First of all, I didn't spend 10-15 hours on PDF, nobody does that.
> 
> Second of all, you still know shit all about intelligence, I mean, if you know something, at least you can challenge my word on the issue, but the fact that you avoid being in "Contact" with me make you more like a troll then me.
> 
> I mean, feel free to ask around, and make a fool out of yourself, I don't mind.
> 
> And yes, I mean YOU this time.



No one has that much free time to "challenge" all the bullshyt you write here.

Most of the time I see your nick and scroll down to the next post, because it is so so predictable what the contents are going to be - unsubstantiated utter garbage ("yeah Abrahmovich is poisoned, here I have proof from a tabloid which says he was 'allegedly' poisoned.").

And now we have to accept it as a "fact" or make a mistake to challenge it to read another 200+ non-sensse posts. Yeah right! 

Carry on, I know you are paid per post and dont want you to get fired. So make it count.

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## Apollon

jhungary said:


> Well, yeah, Trust is gone
> 
> I can tell you this tho.
> 
> I can see 2 things in the future.
> 
> 1.) Ukraine and Zelenskyy government is going to stay as an entity, they may be neutral toward Russia or not a NATO member after this, but they will be wary about Russia, if Putin remain in power.
> 
> 2.) Ukraine will be armed to the teeth like Israel after this


I guess Ukraine will also join EU. They fought hard and deserve our full support.


----------



## Wood

jhungary said:


> I would say Russia want the sanction to bel lifted as much as Ukrainian wanted their sovereign integrity. And I don't mean Post 2014 (with Russia took Crimea and the Donbas separatist) but a Pre-2014 Ukraine.
> 
> *On the other hand, what can Russia give in this peace talk? Russia so far only captured 2 cities that mean something, and those are their bargaining chips, I don't think given that back would worth the lifting of Sanctions. I will say even after they took Mariupol, that still not worth lifting the sanctions*.
> 
> The only solution I can see if they made any deal now is to go back to Post 2014 with some Sanction lifted. Otherwise I don't think either side will budge on the issue.


There would be no complication in the negotiations if the answer to your question is so easy. We have to wait to see what both parties agree to give up.

I'm just guessing that removal of sanctions will be on the prime agenda for the Russians. Simply because their industries cannot be sustained without western supply chains.


----------



## Apollon

Ich said:


> Ah, suddenly its "medium term"  Medium term means what? 5-10 years? Ooohhh, so how will Germany compensate russian gas end of this year? And the next years? If Germany do not pay in Rubles? No Rubles -> no gas! And there is no other gas delivery in sight.



Then stop it. Making deals with tyrants has a price and now is that payday. 

Germany already said it wont pay rubles. This is decided. Putin needs the money.


----------



## Ich

coffee_cup said:


> Gemany is resisting all the possible pressure at the moment, because lets face it - there is no alternative to Russian gas till at least 2027.
> 
> And tbh, Germany/France did not want this war. They tried all they could to stop it, they wont get much out of it.
> 
> Anglo-Saxons had their way, like they always do and Germany, Ukraine, Russia and other Europeans have to pay... no prize for guesssing who are the real winners here... *sigh*



Yes. And no. The german gov is such idiotic that they like to destroy germany. As always...


----------



## Apollon

coffee_cup said:


> Gemany is resisting all the possible pressure at the moment, because lets face it - there is no alternative to Russian gas till at least 2027.
> 
> And tbh, Germany/France did not want this war. They tried all they could to stop it, they wont get much out of it.
> 
> Anglo-Saxons had their way, like they always do and Germany, Ukraine, Russia and other Europeans have to pay... no prize for guesssing who are the real winners here... *sigh*



So you say Putin was ordered by USA to attack Ukraine? Are you kidding?

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508793606261420036

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## Apollon

Ich said:


> Yes. And no. The german gov is such idiotic that they like to destroy germany. As always...



Let me guess? AfD Querdenker?


----------



## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> No one has that much free time to "challenge" all the bullshyt you write here.
> 
> Most of the time I see your nick and scroll down to the next post, because it is so so predictable what the contents are going to be - unsubstantiated utter garbage ("yeah Abrahmovich is poisoned, here I have proof from a tabloid which says he was 'allegedly' poisoned.").
> 
> And now we have to accept it as a "fact" or make a mistake to challenge it to read another 200+ non-sensse posts. Yeah right!
> 
> Carry on, I know you are paid per post and dont want you to get fired. So make it count.


So in short, you are all talk and no action?

You could have just said "I am all talk" in stead of writing 5 lines of words that's really hard to comprehend..........


----------



## alimobin memon

Not a total failure. A minor victory for Russia. Ukraine will not join NATO and some parts of Ukraine now liberated. But great victory for ukraine too that they hold the capital for long.


----------



## jhungary

Apollon said:


> I guess Ukraine will also join EU. They fought hard and deserve our full support.


Well, depends on the "Neutrality" Ukraine would put up for the peace talk. I don't think joining EU would be neutral. It is also the thing that started all these in the first place.


----------



## coffee_cup

Apollon said:


> Germany already said it wont pay rubles. This is decided. Putin needs the money.



Then unfreeze and return their reserves.

There is not gonna be any free gas for sure. 

Here is the situation:

1) Europe needs gas
2) Russia says will sell only in Rubles (or unfreeze/unsanction their assets - that seems like their real aim)
3) Europe says wont pay in Rubles and wont unfreeze/unsantion Russian assets

What is the immediate solution out of this catch-22?

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## Ich

Apollon said:


> Then stop it. Making deals with tyrants has a price and now is that payday.
> 
> Germany already said it wont pay rubles. This is decided. Putin needs the money.


 
Oh man (or do you define other?), you really want to see Germany die. You are mentally ill.

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## Vergennes

Hope that Russian BMP2 recovers from its injuries


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## jhungary

Wood said:


> There would be no complication in the negotiations if the answer to your question is so easy. We have to wait to see what both parties agree to give up.
> 
> I'm just guessing that removal of sanctions will be on the prime agenda for the Russians. Simply because their industries cannot be sustained without western supply chains.


Well, just because Russia want it does not mean the West have to give it to them. 

The problem here is, if sanction is not in place, then how can we guarantee Russia will do what they do in peace talk?

On the other hand, I really don't see how the West will roll back the entire sanction unless Russia pay for it, you need to think about it globally, if they do, that will encourage other actor to do the same. There are a few place in the world where land dispute exist, if you don't go all the way, you are just encouraging people for it. This is the lesson the west learn after 2014 and they did nothing serious......

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## Apollon

jhungary said:


> Well, depends on the "Neutrality" Ukraine would put up for the peace talk. I don't think joining EU would be neutral. It is also the thing that started all these in the first place.



Austria is in EU too. Beside that, Russia is in no Position to make such demands


----------



## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> So in short, you are all talk and no action?


This is what Zelensky says about Biden.

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## Apollon

coffee_cup said:


> Then unfreeze and return their reserves.
> 
> There is not gonna be any free gas for sure.
> 
> Here is the situation:
> 
> 1) Europe needs gas
> 2) Russia says will sell only in Rubles (or unfreeze/unsanction their assets - that seems like their real aim)
> 3) Europe says wont pay in Rubles and wont unfreeze/unsantion Russian assets
> 
> What is the immediate solution out of this catch-22?



Europe will unfreeze when all troops leave Ukraine including Crimea.

Right now its chicken game. We know putin blows on his last legs.


----------



## jhungary

Apollon said:


> Austria is in EU too. Beside that, Russia is in no Position to make such demands


Well, Sweden is EU too, I would not consider Sweden as Neutral...



coffee_cup said:


> This is what Zelensky says about Biden.


No, this is what I say about you.


----------



## Meengla

Ich said:


> Yes. And no. The german gov is such idiotic that they like to destroy germany. As always...



Europeans are American vassal states. And if and when Europe burns because of the policies of a few hundred Neocons sitting in Washington DC then know that Europe had no legs to stand on to fight for their interests. Already the blowback from the Neocons' wars in the Middle East on Europe is there. This conflict is even closer to home.

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## Ich

Apollon said:


> Let me guess? AfD Querdenker?



No, i am only a normal German who still have the abillity to think. I do not parrot.

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## coffee_cup

Apollon said:


> Europe will unfreeze when all troops leave Ukraine including Crimea.
> 
> Right now its chicken game. We know putin blows on his last legs.



So you dont offer any solution and just want the gas flow to stop like right now?

What is the contingency plan when 100s of thousands of unemployed people start rioting on the streets? Do you have any?

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## Apollon

Ich said:


> Oh man (or do you define other?), you really want to see Germany die. You are mentally ill.



You belong to 5th column. Germany would die if it bends to this tyrant. Even more so since Putler is losing. 

I am a man, im fiercly patriotic. And weaklings who bend to Putin disgust me.

I mean how weak must someone be to betray his own nation to cater the enemy? 

I see people with your mindset as traitors. Russian agents and enemies of Germany and Europe

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## Paul2

@jhungary 

On whether they can reposition their troops. So far, the reports are of troops that were hanging in their rearguard, or weren't able to be deployed into Kiyv for whatever reason. By doing that, they make themselves moderately vulnerable to breakthrough.

We need to note that this is not a rotation, and these weary troops from Kiyv front will be going without rest to the East of Ukraine after few days on a train. This also leaves them without an opportunity to use these troops to rotate their troops on frontlines.

Pulling their front line troops from near Kiyv is out of question, because Ukrainians will have a turkeyshoot at retreating troops.

They had extreme trouble deploying the force of this side into dense forests on Belarus borders, and it means they will have equally bad logistics problem during the retreat.

Retreats are often costlier than advances, because dangers of chokepoints getting under artillery fire are at least doubles during retreats. It's one thing to suffer from chokepoint congestion during offence, when your advance party keeps the enemy occupied 30kms-40 kms away, and completely different when the enemy is right there, shooting you in the back.

They will likely have to abandon a lot of damaged, but still recoverable armour, ammo from emplacement, towed weapons left without tractors. Wounded soldiers take more space than ones who can seat.

The railways are said to be disrupted on Belarusian side, and Ukrainian/LNR/DNR connections with Russian rail were blown up over past weeks in the East. Even with rail, the evacuated armour will take weeks to load on trains to Russia, refit, and redeploy.

----------

Now, they want to deploy those 10-20 BTGs, or what's left of them to the West.

How?

They no longer have the option to deploy them at leisurely pace during peacetime, nor is the LNR/DNR territory is safe now. There is no ammo, and supplies for them there, as it was already used.

They will also have to repair/reorganise broken BTGs. Get new armour/artillery for them. Appoint new officers from somewhere to replace KIAed/WIAed ones.

----------

In other words, they are either off for good, or they will be redeployed half-broken, without serious armour, and supplies. In the later scenario, they will only be able to provide 20 BTGs of very light infantry, or 12-15 ones on basic, and obsolete armour from Russian reserves.

----------

The biggest wutang not discussed yet, is that they will be redeploying 15000+ broken, and demoralised troops who thought that they will be "going for military exercises," into a place they know will be a complete meatgrinder. _I bet, there will be surprises._

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> No, this is what I say about you.



Me? Since when am I the "most powerful man in the world" ?

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## Apollon

coffee_cup said:


> So you dont offer any solution and just want the gas flow to stop like right now?
> 
> What is the contingency plan when 100s of thousands of unemployed people start rioting on the streets? Do you have any?



Dude seriously? In Germany is welfare. Unemployed get 60% of last income and 67% when they have children.


----------



## Wood

jhungary said:


> Well, just because Russia want it does not mean the West have to give it to them.
> 
> The problem here is, if sanction is not in place*, then how can we guarantee Russia will do what they do in peace tal*k?
> 
> On the other hand, I really don't see how the West will roll back the entire sanction unless Russia pay for it, you need to think about it globally, if they do, that will encourage other actor to do the same. There are a few place in the world where land dispute exist, if you don't go all the way, you are just encouraging people for it. This is the lesson the west learn after 2014 and they did nothing serious......


No guarantee except for the fact that Putin has now seen that taking Ukraine is not a 3 day job 

I can see a couple of reasons why the western countries be willing to let go of sanctions in favor of a settlement:

a) Stop the bombing of Ukrainian cities to save civilians and infrastructure.
b) Russian natural resources are still in demand.

We'll see if my best guess for the current scenario is close to reality in future.


----------



## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> Me? Since when am I the "most powerful man in the world" ?


Dude, then am I Zelenskyy?

You are all talk and no action, I don't care if this is what Bruce Lee talk to Jackie Chan or Zelenskyy said to Biden. YOU, are all talk and no action.

By the way, as I said before, I am no fan of Biden either, so, joke's on you.


----------



## Type59

Vergennes said:


> Hope that Russian BMP2 recovers from its injuries
> 
> View attachment 828434


Why does splash shield look soo clean? Makes you think.


----------



## coffee_cup

Apollon said:


> You belong to 5th column. Germany would die if it bends to this tyrant. Even more so since Putler is losing.
> 
> I am a man, im fiercly patriotic. And weaklings who bend to Putin disgust me.
> 
> I mean how weak must someone be to betray his own nation to cater the enemy?
> 
> I see people with your mindset as traitors. Russian agents and enemies of Germany and Europe



So all the policy makers with real information and knowledge about what would happen if they stop energy supplies are "5th column" and "traitors"?

May be it is you who is a "traitor" and doing Putin's job to spread discord in German society?

@Ich


----------



## jhungary

Wood said:


> No guarantee except for the fact that the Putin has now seen that taking Ukraine is not a 3 day job
> 
> I can see a couple of reasons why the western countries be willing to let go of sanctions in favor of a settlement:
> 
> a) Stop the bombing of Ukrainian cities to save civilians and infrastructure.
> b) Russian natural resources are still in demand.
> 
> We'll see if my best guess for the current scenario is close to reality in future.


Not talking about now, but a few years in the future, if west lifted sanction too early, Russia may have another bite of an apple, and this time, they will be prepared. 

As I said, the West would most likely not going to let go of sanction unless Russia pay for this war. I just don't see any point doing it otherwise, because you may as well tell it to XI or Kim Jung that they are free to invade Taiwan and South Korea as long as you pull out before we did enough damage to you, and take whatever you gain from the war.....

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508801721358766082

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508802324264853517

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508803983950888964

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508809240827342860

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> Dude, then am I Zelenskyy?
> 
> You are all talk and no action, I don't care if this is what Bruce Lee talk to Jackie Chan or Zelenskyy said to Biden. YOU, are all talk and no action.
> 
> By the way, as I said before, I am no fan of Biden either, so, joke's on you.



Do you even read what you type?

What the F* is "action"? 

You type non-stop gibberish and we call it what it is by "typing" in response.

What else do you want us to do? Record a video with dramatic effects and present it to you as "action"?

Now dont tell me you have worked few years as a director and producer as well.

Lets get back to topic, shall we?

PS: Biden represents USA, if you havent figured even that one out, what can I say. LOL


----------



## Ich

Apollon said:


> You belong to 5th column.



Haha, how cheap is that? This is very old US set, from the 60s, McCarthy style They even couldnt count further than 5 cause they need the fingers of the one hand to count the fingers of the other hand 

And this describes you perfect.

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## Meengla

coffee_cup said:


> So you dont offer any solution and just want the gas flow to stop like right now?
> 
> What is the contingency plan when 100s of thousands of unemployed people start rioting on the streets? Do you have any?



Everything will be conveniently blamed on Putin. From the Covid Pandemic to Will Smith smacking Chris during Oscars.
Wars not only make money for some well connected people but also provide diversions for failing domestic policies. I mean I can say, without a shadow of doubt, the current war between Russia and Ukraine is a big blessing for Biden, his crocodile's tears about 'freedom and democracy' and 'peace' aside...

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## nang2

Apollon said:


> Dude seriously? In Germany is welfare. Unemployed get 60% of last income and 67% when they have children.


Welfare comes from wealth. It is not like the unemployed get 60% of his last income from the money he saved before. It is from somebody else. If you want welfare, don't blow up other people's wealth.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508813885863874573

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> Do you even read what you type?
> 
> What the F* is "action"?
> 
> You type non-stop gibberish and we call it what it is by "typing" in response.
> 
> What else do you want us to do? Record a video with dramatic effects and present it to you as "action"?
> 
> Now dont tell me you have worked few years as a director and producer as well.
> 
> Lets get back to topic, shall we?
> 
> PS: Biden represents USA, if you havent figured even that one out, what can I say. LOL


lol, exactly how dumb are you?

Action does not mean physical "action" as in movement. Action mean you act on something, which mean you do what you say you will do, instead of just saying it. Because I hear loud mouth barking from you, I don't see anything that you either support your point that I am a fraud, or you go challenge the point I raise. 

Should you done either, your "Point" are more creditable than you just sit here and bark like a dog. 

Instead I don't really know if you are really that dumb or that uneducated to associate ACTION as in an action movie.

And in case you have not notice, Biden is US President, Not *SUPREME LEADER of USA*, there are no such thing as Supreme Leader of USA, and he does not represent USA, if he did, then we will not elect a president via electoral college, instead we would have a direct poll. US government represent USA, Biden represent the executive branch of the government, there are 3 branches of the US government.


----------



## Meengla

Wood said:


> I can see a couple of reasons why the* western countries* be willing to let go of sanctions in favor of a settlement:
> 
> a) Stop the bombing of Ukrainian cities to save civilians and infrastructure.
> b) Russian natural resources are still in demand.



Western?? If France and Germany had some backbone then what Ukraine is about to concede now would have been conceded before this war started. There is no 'west' when it comes to NATO/Geopolitics: It is just a cabal of Neocons connected with the power establishment in America. The cabal which even robs Americans and couldn't care LESS about Ukraine. The only countries the cabal would care would be the Anglos and the Israelis for ethnic or Lobbying reasons!!

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> @jhungary
> 
> On whether they can reposition their troops. So far, the reports are of troops that were hanging in their rearguard, or weren't able to be deployed into Kiyv for whatever reason. By doing that, they make themselves moderately vulnerable to breakthrough.
> 
> We need to note that this is not a rotation, and these weary troops from Kiyv front will be going without rest to the East of Ukraine after few days on a train. This also leaves them without an opportunity to use these troops to rotate their troops on frontlines.
> 
> Pulling their front line troops from near Kiyv is out of question, because Ukrainians will have a turkeyshoot at retreating troops.
> 
> They had extreme trouble deploying the force of this side into dense forests on Belarus borders, and it means they will have equally bad logistics problem during the retreat.
> 
> Retreats are often costlier than advances, because dangers of chokepoints getting under artillery fire are at least doubles during retreats. It's one thing to suffer from chokepoint congestion during offence, when your advance party keeps the enemy occupied 30kms-40 kms away, and completely different when the enemy is right there, shooting you in the back.
> 
> They will likely have to abandon a lot of damaged, but still recoverable armour, ammo from emplacement, towed weapons left without tractors. Wounded soldiers take more space than ones who can seat.
> 
> The railways are said to be disrupted on Belarusian side, and Ukrainian/LNR/DNR connections with Russian rail were blown up over past weeks in the East. Even with rail, the evacuated armour will take weeks to load on trains to Russia, refit, and redeploy.
> 
> ----------
> 
> Now, they want to deploy those 10-20 BTGs, or what's left of them to the West.
> 
> How?
> 
> They no longer have the option to deploy them at leisurely pace during peacetime, nor is the LNR/DNR territory is safe now. There is no ammo, and supplies for them there, as it was already used.
> 
> They will also have to repair/reorganise broken BTGs. Get new armour/artillery for them. Appoint new officers from somewhere to replace KIAed/WIAed ones.
> 
> ----------
> 
> In other words, they are either off for good, or they will be redeployed half-broken, without serious armour, and supplies. In the later scenario, they will only be able to provide 20 BTGs of very light infantry, or 12-15 ones on basic, and obsolete armour from Russian reserves.
> 
> ----------
> 
> The biggest wutang not discussed yet, is that they will be redeploying 15000+ broken, and demoralised troops who thought that they will be "going for military exercises," into a place they know will be a complete meatgrinder. _I bet, there will be surprises._


That's why I raise the question of "Strategic Reserve" 

You can't just pull troop out from one part of battlefield and reinsert them on the other. You need to either have reserve to safeguard the move, or have them rotate and draw back over time to preserve the combat power. If you don't have the reserve to do that, that spell big trouble for the Russian. 

As far as I can see, the position in Donbas is quite fortified as well, 34 days in, that line has not move much (If they had moved at all) that means even if they can successfully deploy the troop in the East, that beg a question on whether or not they have enough combat power to overcome the garrison. 

On the other hand, Ukrainian defence elsewhere will also thin out, couple with the bolstering number from TDF, I just don't see how refocusing on Donbas would work on Russian Force, unless, as I said before, Russia have some Reserve left to use. Otherwise that wouldn't really do much but drawn out into a long war and missile fest on the Russian side.....


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508816931033337857

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508817554839683072

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jamahir

Ich said:


> Ah, suddenly its "medium term"  Medium term means what? 5-10 years? Ooohhh, so how will Germany compensate russian gas end of this year? And the next years? If Germany do not pay in Rubles? No Rubles -> no gas! And there is no other gas delivery in sight.



@Apollon doesn't have to worry. He will go back to Greece.



Wood said:


> Only other way to bring the war to an end is for NATO to get involved. Otherwise, this war can go on forever. Meanwhile, Ukrainians will die every day. This is something that Zelensky may not want to tolerate.



Zelensky is tolerating deaths of Ukranians *right now*. What is his problem in listening to Russian concerns of de-Nazifying Ukraine, especially since the Nazis are doing crimes against the civilians *now* ? It is in Zelensky's hands to stop the war.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508818621979631618


----------



## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508816931033337857
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508817554839683072


70-75% of total military? You mean 70-75% of 2 mil+ soldiers, 15k mbt and 5k air craft are in Ukraine? Wtf kind of claim is thism

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## coffee_cup

Apollon said:


> Dude seriously? In Germany is welfare. Unemployed get 60% of last income and 67% when they have children.



Where on earth are you gonna pay for unemployment support if half of the industry is shut, tax collection is at minimum due to tax holidays and no money left?

They are already planning to give the employers the opportunity to cut working hours of employees due to these extra ordinary circumstances as we speak. You need to update your information.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508820371679715328

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> And in case you have not notice, Biden is US President, Not *SUPREME LEADER of USA*, there are no such thing as Supreme Leader of USA, and he does not represent USA, if he did, then we will not elect a president via electoral college, instead we would have a direct poll. US government represent USA, Biden represent the executive branch of the government, there are 3 branches of the US government.



Where die I write that Biden is "*SUPREME LEADER of USA*" ?
Can you show it in my posts?

And if the president of the USA does not represent USA who does? 

You?


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508818621979631618


These can be used by special forces to take out Russian artillery that is beyond reach. I remember reading about a note from Ukrainian special forces during the early days of the war threatening Russian artillery personnel.


----------



## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> Where die I write that Biden is "*SUPREME LEADER of USA*" ?
> Can you show it in my posts?


When did I say you did? Point it to my post?

I was using that to counter what you had said, you said Biden represent USA, this is not an Olympic game, we don't elect a president to represent a country, as I said, if you are at all familiar with US politic, you know the President don't have much power, because power are separated within the 3 branches. This is to ensure even if we elected someone like Trump, we don't turn into Dictatorship.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508820253542920197


----------



## Ich

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508818621979631618



U.S. switchblade drones have not yet arrived in Ukraine. Will they be now renamed to "switch away drones"?

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## Apollon

coffee_cup said:


> So all the policy makers with real information and knowledge about what would happen if they stop energy supplies are "5th column" and "traitors"?
> 
> May be it is you who is a "traitor" and doing Putin's job to spread discord in German society?
> 
> @Ich



No, we call them "Russland Versteher" which is an insult and means "Russia Understanders".

We are at war. A war is painful. When the persian attacked Greece we could have surrendered. We did not, entire Athens was destroyed but we crushed the enemy. Thats what it is about. Of course stopping gas will damage german economy. But thats the price one has to pay to still look in the mirror.

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## sammuel

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508813885863874573


----------



## NADIM

Vergennes said:


> Irpen in Kyiv has been liberated from Russian terrorists
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508532616751947778


So you tell Israel is Terrorist State.

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## Apollon

nang2 said:


> Welfare comes from wealth. It is not like the unemployed get 60% of his last income from the money he saved before. It is from somebody else. If you want welfare, don't blow up other people's wealth.



Well here comes the hint, a germany under russian opression would be as miserable as russia.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508824091679145990


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> @Apollon doesn't have to worry. He will go back to Greece.
> 
> 
> 
> Zelensky is tolerating deaths of Ukranians *right now*. What is his problem in listening to Russian concerns of de-Nazifying Ukraine, especially since the Nazis are doing crimes against the civilians *now* ? It is in Zelensky's hands to stop the war.



Only if Russia deputinizes. Russia is a complete facist regime in evry aspect. Even their symbolism is.


----------



## EasyNow

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508801721358766082
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508802324264853517
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508803983950888964
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508809240827342860



This Russian blunder might just be the catalyst for a European resurgence. 

Europe has long been criticized for being overly liberal and soft - this has just set the clock back 50 years.

I expect a renewed focus on China and much more blatant realpolitik in the world going forward.

Russia and China have just ensured that every enemy that they had in the world, are now going to be even more dangerous.

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## Apollon

coffee_cup said:


> Where on earth are you gonna pay for unemployment support if half of the industry is shut, tax collection is at minimum due to tax holidays and no money left?
> 
> They are already planning to give the employers the opportunity to cut working hours of employees due to these extra ordinary circumstances as we speak. You need to update your information.



Germany has record low unemployment.

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> When did I say you did? Point it to my post?
> 
> I was using that to counter what you had said, you said Biden represent USA, this is not an Olympic game, we don't elect a president to represent a country, as I said, if you are at all familiar with US politic, you know the President don't have much power, because power are separated within the 3 branches. This is to ensure even if we elected someone like Trump, we don't turn into Dictatorship.



This is exactly the problem engaging with you in some meaningful "discussion".

You write countless words on useless things which have no meaning on the broader context.

For the sake of writing another 1000 useless words you have brought everything from electoral process to what not just to bring up another useless discussion that President of the USA does not represent USA.

Get some help dude. Or should I contact your employers and request them to pay you by hours and not by words that you type? LOL


----------



## Wood

Apollon said:


> So you say Putin was ordered by USA to attack Ukraine? Are you kidding?


Many people here believe that US tempted and trapped Putin into waging this war. On one hand they claim that Putin is genius, but at the same time they'll say that US is at fault for trapping him like this.

They are also likely to believe that 9/11 was an inside job

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## nang2

Apollon said:


> Well here comes the hint, a germany under russian opression would be as miserable as russia.


Oh now Germany is under Russian oppression. Where did you get all this victimhood sentiment?


----------



## coffee_cup

Apollon said:


> Germany has record low unemployment.



And in order to keep it that way, uninterrupted energy supply is required.


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

Told y'all Russian regime is catching Ls left, right, and center

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## mmr

Apollon said:


> Germany has record low unemployment.


Man in pdf some are acting like west is dying for bread lol











U.S. labor market tightens as weekly jobless claims hit lowest level since 1969


The number of Americans filing new claims for jobless benefits dropped to a 52-1/2-year low last week, while unemployment rolls continued to shrink, pointing to rapidly diminishing labor market slack that will keep boosting wage inflation.




www.reuters.com





U.S. labor market tightens as weekly jobless claims hit lowest level since 1969​


----------



## coffee_cup

Ich said:


> U.S. switchblade drones have not yet arrived in Ukraine. Will they be now renamed to "switch away drones"?


Seriously?

I have been reading about them for weeks now. They have still not been delivered to Ukraine? This is sad!


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Only if Russia deputinizes. Russia is a complete facist regime in evry aspect. Even their symbolism is.



If Russia dePutinizes then you will have to contend with the Communists who completely support the current special operation despite having differences with Putin's policies. 



Get Ya Wig Split said:


> Told y'all Russian regime is catching Ls left, right, and center



Perhaps you were reminded by this :

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## nang2

EasyNow said:


> This Russian blunder might just be the catalyst for a European resurgence.
> 
> Europe has long been criticized for being overly liberal and soft - this has just set the clock back 50 years.
> 
> I expect a renewed focus on China and much more blatant realpolitik in the world going forward.
> 
> Russia and China have just ensured that every enemy that they had in the world, are now going to be even more dangerous.


Can't blame them. Europeans are largely soft because they don't have much to show for after WWII. They were rescued by Anglo-Americans and Russians. Their inferiority complex makes them distrust both while depending on either of them. The current war only further confirms their incompetence.

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## Apollon

nang2 said:


> Oh now Germany is under Russian oppression. Where did you get all this victimhood sentiment?



History and Putins speech. He wanted Ukraine. Then baltics, poland and balkans. NATO cease to exist and Europe under russian "leadership".

With all due respect. I dont want leadership of a rather revolting poor country. I rather prefer freedom


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

jamahir said:


> If Russia dePutinizes then you will have to contend with the Communists who completely support the current special operation despite having differences with Putin's policies.
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps you were reminded by this :


LOL Bush ducking those shoes is top 5 in American history wtf are you talking about. Got me ducking strays like Bush was ducking shoes #bars!

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## EasyNow

nang2 said:


> Can't blame them. Europeans are largely soft because they don't have much to show for after WWII. They were rescued by Anglo-Americans and Russians. Their inferiority complex makes them distrust both while depending on either of them. The current war only further confirms their incompetence.



I don't think it's to do with inferiority tbh, it's only natural that after the horror of 2 world wars, most Europeans shied away from the politics of war and conflict with neighbours.

That lead to a period of appeasement but also of pluralism and understanding. But that seems to have reached its limit now.

I consider myself politically liberal and this is exactly why I was so unhappy with Russia's actions. It has hurt progressive politics unimaginably.

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## Apollon

German government says a sudden import stop of russian gas would cost Germany 107 billion euro 









Bis zu 107 Milliarden Euro: So teuer wäre ein Importstopp für russisches Öl und Gas


Deutschland hat als Teil der EU Russland wegen des Ukraine-Krieges mit harten Sanktionen belegt, kauft aber weiter Öl und Erdgas aus dem Osten. Bundeskanzler Olaf Scholz (SPD) hält einen Importstopp für zu teuer. Ökonomen haben nachgerechnet.




m.focus.de





We took 380 billion of russian assets. So i say EU should go for it


----------



## -=virus=-




----------



## jamahir

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> Got me ducking strays like Bush was ducking shoes #bars!



Ducking strays ? Bars ? What do they mean ?



Apollon said:


> With all due respect. I dont want leadership of a rather revolting poor country. I rather prefer freedom



Perhaps you prefer leadership of "Great" Britain where you have freedom to be homeless and hungry if you do not show the government your money :


----------



## mmr

EasyNow said:


> I don't think it's to do with inferiority tbh, it's only natural that after the horror of 2 world wars, most Europeans shied away from the politics of war and conflict with neighbours.
> 
> That lead to a period of appeasement it also of pluralism and understanding. But that seems to have reached its limit now.
> 
> I consider myself politically liberal and this is exactly why I was so unhappy with Russia's actions. It has hurt progressive politics unimaginably.


Its a wake up call.


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Ducking strays ? Bars ? What do they mean ?
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps you prefer leadership of "Great" Britain where you have freedom to be homeless and hungry if you do not show the government your money :
> View attachment 828453



Have you ever visited Russia? I have a hint, poorest european nation is Romania. Divide their income with 3...and you have russian income

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## letsrock

Apollon said:


> Well here comes the hint, a germany under russian opression would be as miserable as russia.



Actually it sort off was. GDR was part of soviet bloc for 40 years. And was quiet wealthy by 80s. And many still fondly recollect it. There is even a german word for it - Ostalgie.


----------



## nang2

EasyNow said:


> I don't think it's to do with inferiority tbh, it's only natural that after the horror of 2 world wars, most Europeans shied away from the politics of war and conflict with neighbours.
> 
> That lead to a period of appeasement it also of pluralism and understanding. But that seems to have reached its limit now.
> 
> I consider myself politically liberal and this is exactly why I was so unhappy with Russia's actions. It has hurt progressive politics unimaginably.


Actually WWII should teach them a lesson about appeasement. The rise of Hilter was partly a result of appeasement policy employed by other European countries. In fact, after WWII, French was very much on guard against appeasement.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508505370016329733

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508754708122451975

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508824326887325705

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## nang2

Apollon said:


> History and Putins speech. He wanted Ukraine. Then baltics, poland and balkans. NATO cease to exist and Europe under russian "leadership".
> 
> With all due respect. I dont want leadership of a rather revolting poor country. I rather prefer freedom


I feel sorry for you for having such a miserable life.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508826606466445316

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## Wood

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508505370016329733
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508754708122451975
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508824326887325705


Seems like he wants to cultivate a warrior image on Instagram

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## F-22Raptor

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508826606466445316



What in the world


----------



## Apollon

letsrock said:


> Actually it sort off was. GDR was part of soviet bloc for 40 years. And was quiet wealthy by 80s. And many still fondly recollect it. There is even a german word for it - Ostalgie.



Yes it was so great that they had to build a wall to keep people from running away.

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## PakFactor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508816931033337857
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508817554839683072



I know for sure this dude failed all math classes.


----------



## Apollon

nang2 said:


> I feel sorry for you for having such a miserable life.



I consider my life as quite cool. Big part is travelling. I could not travel if we would be under russian tyranny. I would live as miserable as them.


----------



## LeGenD

Broccoli said:


> Talibans never had anything more than few Chinese flir sights for their guns and what they captured or bought from corrupted Afghan army commanders. Nobody send them modern ATGM's or manpads.



Afghan Taliban are not equipped for warfare like a European country but they have their methods to create insurgency. They are able to blend in with the locals and collect INTEL to determine targets and strike at the time of their choosing. They incorporated suicide attacks and IEDs in their tactics to devastating effect from time-to-time.

They were able to obtain advanced equipment from the Afghan National Army (ANA) in various battles. They had sourced manpads and used them to shoot down helicopters when possible. Examples in following footage:









Taliban 'down Afghan military helicopter' and kill troops at checkpoint


THE Taliban have claimed they shot down an Afghan military helicopter before slaughtering troops at a checkpoint in its latest terror rampage. Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid said the chopper …




www.thesun.co.uk





They are known to use terrain to their advantage in particular. They were able to kill hundreds of British troops in Helmand province for instance.

Afghanistan is called graveyard of Empires in modern times for a reason.


----------



## Apollon

LeGenD said:


> Afghan Taliban are not equipped for warfare like a European country but they have their methods to create insurgency. They are able to blend in with the locals and collect INTEL to determine targets and strike at the time of their choosing. They incorporated suicide attacks and IEDs in their tactics to devastating effect from time-to-time.
> 
> They were able to obtain advanced equipment from the Afghan National Army (ANA) in various battles. They had sourced manpads and used them to shoot down helicopters when possible. Examples in following footage:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taliban 'down Afghan military helicopter' and kill troops at checkpoint
> 
> 
> THE Taliban have claimed they shot down an Afghan military helicopter before slaughtering troops at a checkpoint in its latest terror rampage. Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid said the chopper …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thesun.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are known to use terrain to their advantage in particular. They were able to kill hundreds of British troops in Helmand province for instance.
> 
> Afghanistan is called graveyard of Empires in modern times for a reason.



I think that depends on the kind of warfare. Taliban depend on an enemy who has basic set of morals. I doubt they would stand a chance against hitler style warfare, where evrything that moves gets killed and its just for the land to settle.


----------



## nang2

Apollon said:


> I consider my life as quite cool. Big part is travelling. I could not travel if we would be under russian tyranny. I would live as miserable as them.


So you are suffering from imagined misery while living a comfortable life.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## letsrock

Apollon said:


> Yes it was so great that they had to build a wall to keep people from running away.


The wall was within berlin and entire surronding country was east germany. Stories on that are vastly exaggerated. Ofcourse it was poorer than west germany at starting point. And people from poorer countries migrate - like you moved to germany from greece. But being part of soviet bloc did not make it poorer. Its wealth grew through out 4 decades.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508833315792379911

Reactions: Like Like:
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## letsrock

Apollon said:


> I think that depends on the kind of warfare. Taliban depend on an enemy who has basic set of morals. I doubt they would stand a chance against hitler style warfare, where evrything that moves gets killed and its just for the land to settle.


Dude they did beat the soviets. Maybe you werent born then.

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## nang2

letsrock said:


> The wall was within berlin and entire surronding country was east germany. Stories on that are vastly exaggerated. Ofcourse it was poorer than west germany at starting point. And people from poorer countries migrate - like you moved to germany from greece. But being part of soviet bloc did not make it poorer. Its wealth grew through out 4 decades.


Well, poor itself is a relative term. You feel poor when you compare with your neighbors. Even multimilionians feel poor when they live next to multi-billionians.

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## Ich

Apollon said:


> German government says a sudden import stop of russian gas would cost Germany 107 billion euro
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bis zu 107 Milliarden Euro: So teuer wäre ein Importstopp für russisches Öl und Gas
> 
> 
> Deutschland hat als Teil der EU Russland wegen des Ukraine-Krieges mit harten Sanktionen belegt, kauft aber weiter Öl und Erdgas aus dem Osten. Bundeskanzler Olaf Scholz (SPD) hält einen Importstopp für zu teuer. Ökonomen haben nachgerechnet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.focus.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We took 380 billion of russian assets. So i say EU should go for it



LOL, this is an article about the predictions of some "experts" which you posted some pages ago - and which i destroyed. 

Nice try. But still utter nonesense.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508795643044716547

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508785649788276750

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Vergennes

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508826606466445316



Frightening to say that sh/t is real


----------



## letsrock

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508826606466445316



Not unusual. Driver probably assumed the guys are already in truck and moved on.


----------



## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> This is exactly the problem engaging with you in some meaningful "discussion".
> 
> You write countless words on useless things which have no meaning on the broader context.
> 
> For the sake of writing another 1000 useless words you have brought everything from electoral process to what not just to bring up another useless discussion that President of the USA does not represent USA.
> 
> Get some help dude. Or should I contact your employers and request them to pay you by hours and not by words that you type? LOL


Again, then you are all talk and no action. I see all the hot air, what I don't see is valid point to counter my argument.

And only dumbass would think US President represent all of USA. The question is, Are you?

And finally, can you even count? Since when did I wrote 1000 words?


----------



## xuxu1457



Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508776500367138818

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## PakFactor

xuxu1457 said:


>



And they wonder why Muslims are silent in this conflict and egging on this conflict on the side line, Lol.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508841636436094980


----------



## Vergennes

More hilarious with each days passing


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508776500367138818

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jhungary

LeGenD said:


>


I am pretty sure the fighter and chopper in this video are Russian made. The fighter is Mig-29 and the chopper is Mi-8/17

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> Again, then you are all talk and no action. I see all the hot air, what I don't see is valid point to counter my argument.
> 
> And only dumbass would think US President represent all of USA. The question is, Are you?
> 
> And finally, can you even count? Since when did I wrote 1000 words?



@nang2 @beijingwalker @Ich @jamahir 

Newsflash: The president of the USA does not represent USA. 

Now next time he goes to the UN or China, G7, G20 etc, do not take him seriously and ask the US govt to send someone who truly represent their country.  


PS: Expect 20-30 more useless posts about this (non) topic from this poster.

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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> @nang2 @beijingwalker @Ich @jamahir
> 
> Newsflash: The president of the USA does not represent USA.
> 
> Now next time he goes to the UN or China, G7, G20 etc, do not take him seriously and ask the US govt to send someone who truly represent their country.
> 
> 
> PS: Expect 20-30 more useless posts about this (non) topic from this poster.


Dude, tell me, who represent the United Kingdom?

Is it the head of state Queen Elizabeth? Or is it the Prime Minister Boris Johnson?

President is THE HEAD OF STATE of the United State, the congress and the senate to be precise is the people who was chosen to represent America.

And yes, if Biden does not have both congress and senate backing, what he said is what he said on G7, it does not mean this is what we do. Do you even remember Biden said on Saturday that Putin "Should not be in power" does that mean the US as a whole support a regime change on Russia?? Or even does it represent the United States when he said that??

Man, you are dumb. Report me if you want, but I got no other word for you.

If case you are still too stupid to catch up, Boris Johnson represent the UK because he IS the leader of the conservative party in the UK, which is the leading party in the government. President Biden is just a President, he have no control of either Congress or Senate. The most he can do is to issue executive order, which other than banning people like you to enter the US, he have no hold in any foreign or domestic policy in the US. Saying otherwise is just showing how you do not understand US politics.


----------



## beijingwalker

coffee_cup said:


> @nang2 @beijingwalker @Ich @jamahir
> 
> Newsflash: The president of the USA does not represent USA.
> 
> Now next time he goes to the UN or China, G7, G20 etc, do not take him seriously and ask the US govt to send someone who truly represent their country.
> 
> 
> PS: Expect 20-30 more useless posts about this (non) topic from this poster.


US chain of command is so messed up, last time their top general got around Trump and directly called his Chinese counterpart while Trump was in the dark.









U.S. top general secretly called China over fears Trump could spark war -report


The top U.S. general secretly called his Chinese counterpart twice over concerns then-President Donald Trump could spark a war with China as his potential election loss loomed and in its aftermath, the Washington Post reported on Tuesday.




www.reuters.com

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Ich

coffee_cup said:


> @nang2 @beijingwalker @Ich @jamahir
> 
> Newsflash: The president of the USA does not represent USA.
> 
> Now next time he goes to the UN or China, G7, G20 etc, do not take him seriously and ask the US govt to send someone who truly represent their country.
> 
> 
> PS: Expect 20-30 more useless posts about this (non) topic from this poster.



Biden is a prey. He can easily be controlled by putting some good smelling little girls around him *sniff*

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## mmr

Vergennes said:


> More hilarious with each days passing
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508776500367138818


He is a tik tok artist lol 

next time he will be dancing with ABBA song background

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## coffee_cup

Moscow says military activities near Kiev will be reduced for now as a gesture for the talks to succeed.

Step in the right direction.

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## dBSPL

Spokesperson of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs Mariya Zakharova praised the efforts of Turkey, which hosted the negotiations, in her statement, _*“Turkey has taken a more balanced and independent position compared to other countries. This Russophobic campaign was able to absorb neither the Turkish government nor the people as a whole. For these reasons, including Ankara’s balanced line, we accepted Turkey’s offer to contribute to the negotiations with the Ukrainian side. We are grateful for his mediation efforts to Turkey, especially the Russia-Ukraine negotiations and his efforts to resolve the situation in principle” *_.

Mentioning that Turkey did not participate in the sanctions imposed by the USA and the European Union (EU) against Russia and took decisions in line with the norms of international law, including the straits issue, Zaharova, _*“Turkey It keeps the airspace open for Russian ships and Russian aircraft” *_.

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## Apollon

letsrock said:


> The wall was within berlin and entire surronding country was east germany. Stories on that are vastly exaggerated. Ofcourse it was poorer than west germany at starting point. And people from poorer countries migrate - like you moved to germany from greece. But being part of soviet bloc did not make it poorer. Its wealth grew through out 4 decades.



Dude seriously? The entire country had a death strip around it. The wall was in Berlin, the fence and mine strip was around entire western border. People even made hotair balloons to escape this hell. My father is German. I know what shithole eastern germany was. It was rich by warsaw pact standards but dirt poor compared to west.

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## jhungary

What dumber than calling other people to support your point is when those people you call does not support your point at all....LOL @coffee_cup

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> Dude, tell me, who represent the United Kingdom?
> 
> Is it the head of state Queen Elizabeth? Or is it the Prime Minister Boris Johnson?
> 
> President is THE HEAD OF STATE of the United State, the congress and the senate to be precise is the people who was chosen to represent America.
> 
> And yes, if Biden does not have both congress and senate backing, what he said is what he said on G7, it does not mean this is what we do. Do you even remember Biden said on Saturday that Putin "Should not be in power" does that mean the US as a whole support a regime change on Russia?? Or even does it represent the United States when he said that??
> 
> Man, you are dumb. Report me if you want, but I got no other word for you.


Yeah, you are very smart (not).

Next time send 300 million americans to represent the USA in G7, G20, UN etc. and if they wonder why, tell them because the president does not represents the USA.

See, I predicted a lot of posts on this non-topic which was raised by you. This is what you do to earn your bread and butter.

So carry on and dont bother to reply, I am done for today. I know you still have a lot of nonsense to write to earn few extra $$.

Ciao ...

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## Apollon

Ich said:


> LOL, this is an article about the predictions of some "experts" which you posted some pages ago - and which i destroyed.
> 
> Nice try. But still utter nonesense.



Tell me, when have you forgotten how to kill the enemy and switched too booohooo my apartment will be omly 18C and i have to wear a sweater. Oh Great Vlad please dont hurt me!

Weakness and submissive behavior makes me want to vomit.


----------



## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> Yeah, you are very smart (not).
> 
> Next time send 300 million americans to represent the USA in G7, G20, UN etc. and if they wonder why, tell them because the president does not represents the USA.
> 
> See, I predicted a lot of posts on this non-topic which was raised by you. This is what you do to earn your bread and butter.
> 
> So carry on and dont bother to reply, I am done for today. I know you still have a lot of nonsense to write to earn few extra $$.
> 
> Ciao ...


Didn't Beijing already said no one treated the position of President seriously? This s pretty dumb if you asked me LOL

Dude, don't cry, it could backfire anytime, just like how the Russian think this war is going to be a cake walk...

LOL 

You are even more of a laughing stock then this







They ought to have you in for the 3rd instalment.


----------



## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508813631311466496

Or how Russia winning.

Understand Russia started its “special military operation” with a severe manpower deficit—200,000 attackers to some 600,000 defenders (or more). Classic attritional conflict was never an option. Russian victory required maneuver.

And how Russia froze and lock Ukrainian forces and then slaughtered them.

In what is the equivalent of Operation Bagration, Russia deceived and flat footed the fight conducted by USA and NATO with arms supplied by them and cannon fodder supplied by Zelensky hiding behind, or in front of his green screen.

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## mmr

Firms must choose between helping Russia and West - US


Wally Adeyemo, a top US official, says the West is committed to issuing more sanctions on Russia.



www.bbc.com





Firms must choose between Russia and West, says US​

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## coffee_cup

beijingwalker said:


> US chain of command is so messed up, last time their top general got around Trump and directly called his Chinese counterpart while Trump was in the dark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. top general secretly called China over fears Trump could spark war -report
> 
> 
> The top U.S. general secretly called his Chinese counterpart twice over concerns then-President Donald Trump could spark a war with China as his potential election loss loomed and in its aftermath, the Washington Post reported on Tuesday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com



oh wow!

So seems like that dude does have a point. There is no clear command and control structure. Anyone can just call anyone around the world and claim they represent the govt. LOL


----------



## letsrock

Apollon said:


> Dude seriously? The entire country had a death strip around it. The wall was in Berlin, the fence and mine strip was around entire western border. People even made hotair balloons to escape this hell. My father is German. I know what shithole eastern germany was. It was rich by warsaw pact standards but dirt poor compared to west.


You can say what you want. The world recognizes east germany as a sporting and science powerhouse. liberal west has a megaphone on propaganda and counter narratives get drowned.
Under no circumstances can east germany be considered dirt poor in anyway and neither is west that rich. At one point in 70s i think even UK was close to entire Soviet union in per capita gdp.

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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> oh wow!
> 
> So seems like that dude does have a point. There is no clear command and control structure. Anyone can just call anyone around the world and claim they represent the govt. LOL


lol, command and control for what? His dresser??

Are you really this stupid to think the President hold any power other than showing up in front of a camera and give briefing for anything?

Command and Control of US Policy Making lies with Congress and Senate, and the Command and Control of Military action lies with Joint Chief of Staff.

AS I said, there are no "Supreme Commander" for the US, we don't do that, that's why we can elect a clown and an old senile man and still be the world leading country.

Try harder next time LOL  What an ID-Ten-T

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## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> lol, command and control for what? His dresser??
> 
> Are you really this stupid to think the President hold any power other than showing up in front of a camera and give briefing for anything?
> 
> Command and Control of US Policy Making lies with Congress and Senate, and the Command and Control of Military action lies with Joint Chief of Staff.
> 
> AS I said, there are no "Supreme Commander" for the US, we don't do that, that's why we can elect a clown and an old senile man and still be the world leading country.
> 
> Try harder next time LOL



Did you by any chance got a head injury when that imaginary chopper crashed?

Ofcourse it is not one person who makes decisions or hold power in countries, not even in dictatorships. There are always teams of advisors, ministers and what not. Is this even a point of discussion? This "faces" however officially represent their respective countries in summits as the "head of state" or whatever.

If you can not comprehend this simple fact as "given" and want to discuss it to death - good luck, talk to my hand.


----------



## Ich

Apollon said:


> Tell me, when have you forgotten how to kill the enemy and switched too booohooo my apartment will be omly 18C and i have to wear a sweater. Oh Great Vlad please dont hurt me!
> 
> Weakness and submissive behavior makes me want to vomit.



Well. i wrote duzends of posts here in this thread where i prefer the energy independent of Germany from ALL other countries. I also wrote that i am pro hydrogen economy and nuclear energy. Whereas nuclar plants have to be fast burners (like BN-800) cause it is better to destroy the long radiation waste of the light water reaktors by using it than to burried it somewhere in earth and then dont know what happen in 100 years. 

And i am mature enough to recognize that cutting gas supplies from Russia now is a worst thing for Germany cause there would be no replacement for years. So consume russian gas till all things in Germany are prepared for energy independend while minimize more and more the need of russian gas is no weakness, but reality connected together with doing the best for Germany.

But you, you are just childish.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

Russian soldiers were found killed near Kharkiv,no signs of injuries. Seems Russians left them to die of frost or hunger.



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508821423434964995



A kadyrov thug captured while his colleagues were killed in Mariupol. Guess he won't make nice tiktoks anytime soon.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508841594836992002

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## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> Did you by any chance got a head injury when that imaginary chopper crashed?
> 
> Ofcourse it is not one person who makes decisions or hold power in countries, not even in dictatorships. There are always teams of advisors, ministers and what not. Is this even a point of discussion?
> 
> If you can not comprehend this simple fact as "given" and want to discuss it to death - good luck, talk to my hand.


If that is "imaginary" you wouldn't get hurt, you are even that stupid to realise.

And stop pretending you know anything about US Politics. The more you talk about it the deeper the hole you are digging.

And if you REALLY want to talk about US politics, I am all game, but then seeing how little you know about anything but trying to brag about everything, the chances of meaningful discussion is slim to none.

lol, unlike you, I brag with substance, you brag with your mouth LOL.

Really, this is getting old.


----------



## Apollon

letsrock said:


> You can say what you want. The world recognizes east germany as a sporting and science powerhouse. liberal west has a megaphone on propaganda and counter narratives get drowned.
> Under no circumstances can east germany be considered dirt poor in anyway and neither is west that rich. At one point in 70s i think even UK was close to entire Soviet union in per capita gdp.



My father grew up there as did half of my family. Im quite sure they know better than you.


----------



## coffee_cup

Ich said:


> Well. i wrote duzends of posts here in this thread where i prefer the energy independent of Germany from ALL other countries. I also wrote that i am pro hydrogen economy and nuclear energy. Whereas nuclar plants have to be fast burners (like BN-800) cause it is better to destroy the long radiation waste of the light water reaktors by using it than to burried it somewhere in earth and then dont know what happen in 100 years.
> 
> And i am mature enough to recognize that cutting gas supplies from Russia now is a worst thing for Germany cause there would be no replacement for years. So consume russian gas till all things in Germany are prepared for energy independend while minimize more and more the need of russian gas is no weakness, but reality connected together with doing the best for Germany.
> 
> But you, you are just childish.



Absolutely.
Now is the time to invest massively in hydrogen energy research! That will hopefully solve a LOT of problems around the world!


----------



## Apollon

Ich said:


> Well. i wrote duzends of posts here in this thread where i prefer the energy independent of Germany from ALL other countries. I also wrote that i am pro hydrogen economy and nuclear energy. Whereas nuclar plants have to be fast burners (like BN-800) cause it is better to destroy the long radiation waste of the light water reaktors by using it than to burried it somewhere in earth and then dont know what happen in 100 years.
> 
> And i am mature enough to recognize that cutting gas supplies from Russia now is a worst thing for Germany cause there would be no replacement for years. So consume russian gas till all things in Germany are prepared for energy independend while minimize more and more the need of russian gas is no weakness, but reality connected together with doing the best for Germany.
> 
> But you, you are just childish.



Im also for nuclear power. At same time we should make absolute zero concessions to Putin. We are winning, Russia is losing. Better not blink now and push forward. Putin needs evry cent he can get. How much we bet he will not stop the pipelines?


----------



## DF41

coffee_cup said:


> PS: Expect 20-30 more useless posts about this (non) topic from this poster.




I do admire your d tolerance and patience for idiots .

That you still in some kind of dialog even though you know whatever you say will never be read or listen to by those kind.

I BLOCKED him and others like him long time ago so I never have to face or read the rubbish that those posters can churn out. And more time to read other postings worthy of my time here.

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508577175905001473
Russian propaganda from we take Kiev and whole Ukraine to second strongest army in Europe


----------



## coffee_cup

DF41 said:


> I do admire your d tolerance and patience for idiots .
> 
> That you still in some kind of dialog even though you know whatever you say will never be read or listen to by those kind.
> 
> I BLOCKED him and others like him long time ago so I never have to face or read the rubbish that those posters can churn out. And more time to read other postings worthy of my time here.



You are right.

From now on, I am just gonna jump posts like I used to do for many days. 

There is no point engaging idiots who live in their own imaginary world.

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## Ich

Apollon said:


> Im also for nuclear power. At same time we should make absolute zero concessions to Putin. We are winning, Russia is losing. Better not blink now and push forward. Putin needs evry cent he can get. How much we bet he will not stop the pipelines?



Betting? On the lives of german people? **** off!

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## letsrock

Apollon said:


> My father grew up there as did half of my family. Im quite sure they know better than you.


well your father is not here in this forum. maybe there is a possibility of better discussions then.

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## DF41

coffee_cup said:


> You are right.
> 
> From now on, I am just gonna jump posts like I used to do for many days.
> 
> There is no point engaging idiots who live in their own imaginary world.




Easier and better to BLOCK them so you never need to jump posts.

PDF will jump them for you and you only will see them should anyone as patient as you in the past take the effort
to answer and quote them. 

Even so, they still be blocked from your sight.

Allowing you more time to enjoy your coffee cup and to go smell roses and admire birds and butterflies

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> I am pretty sure the fighter and chopper in this video are Russian made. The fighter is Mig-29 and the chopper is Mi-8/17



Why is Aghan Taliban speaking Arabic? I think it's Syria footage spliced with some shots from Afghanistan.


----------



## Paul2

Ich said:


> Well. i wrote duzends of posts here in this thread where i prefer the energy independent of Germany from ALL other countries. I also wrote that i am pro hydrogen economy and nuclear energy. Whereas nuclar plants have to be fast burners (like BN-800) cause it is better to destroy the long radiation waste of the light water reaktors by using it than to burried it somewhere in earth and then dont know what happen in 100 years.
> 
> And i am mature enough to recognize that cutting gas supplies from Russia now is a worst thing for Germany cause there would be no replacement for years. So consume russian gas till all things in Germany are prepared for energy independend while minimize more and more the need of russian gas is no weakness, but reality connected together with doing the best for Germany.
> 
> But you, you are just childish.



Another benefit of fast reactors: plenty of Pu239

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## Apollon

Ich said:


> Betting? On the lives of german people? **** off!



Dude...Germany is one of richest nations under the sun. Lives of German people? Because a 3% recession.

Sorry but as i said, i find weakness disgusting.


----------



## monitor

Ragıp Soylu
@ragipsoylu
·
4h
BREAKING — Chief Russian negotiator says Russia isn’t against Ukraine joining the EU

What’s the Ukraine proposal? 

1- Guarantors will intervene if Russia attacks after three days of consultations. They may provide arms, or impose a no-fly zone over Ukraine 

2- In return, Ukraine becomes non-aligned, non-nuclear state, with no foreign bases but can join EU


----------



## Apollon

letsrock said:


> well your father is not here in this forum. maybe there is a possibility of better discussions then.



After reunion, west germany had to spend gargantuan amounts of money to bring east germany on similar living conditions. Houses were breaking down, streets were broken, the entire country was grey and broken apart. 

There is a reason why the east germans fired that regime to hell.

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## Type59

monitor said:


> Ragıp Soylu
> @ragipsoylu
> ·
> 4h
> BREAKING — Chief Russian negotiator says Russia isn’t against Ukraine joining the EU
> 
> What’s the Ukraine proposal?
> 
> 1- Guarantors will intervene if Russia attacks after three days of consultations. They may provide arms, or impose a no-fly zone over Ukraine
> 
> 2- In return, Ukraine becomes non-aligned, non-nuclear state, with no foreign bases but can join EU



First point sounds like a defensive alliance. They want Poland, Turkey etc to be part of it, which are NATO countries.

You can see the problem with that for Russia.


----------



## Ich

Paul2 said:


> Another benefit of fast reactors: plenty of Pu239



Only if you configure them as fast breaders. Not if you configure them as fast burners. I talk about fast burners. There is no breading wall in the fast burners, so all fast neutrons are used to splitt Plutonium and other transuranites into lower elements while enough energy for comerzial use is left.


----------



## Viet

letsrock said:


> You can say what you want. The world recognizes east germany as a sporting and science powerhouse. liberal west has a megaphone on propaganda and counter narratives get drowned.
> Under no circumstances can east germany be considered dirt poor in anyway and neither is west that rich. At one point in 70s i think even UK was close to entire Soviet union in per capita gdp.


East Germany was richest among the poor of the East bloc. However if comparing to west Germany, East Germany was an extremely poor country. People standing in long queue for banana. People wanting to buy a car had to wait 20 years. The cars made in East Germany were terrible bad and primitive. I was there.

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## Piotr

Russian forces helping civilians in Mariupol in Donetsk Peoples Republic

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## LeGenD

jhungary said:


> I am pretty sure the fighter and chopper in this video are Russian made. The fighter is Mig-29 and the chopper is Mi-8/17


Ok. Thanks for the correction.


----------



## mmr

Top US general in Europe says there 'could be' an intelligence gap in US that caused US to overestimate Russia's capabilities​








Top US general in Europe says there 'could be' an intelligence gap in US that caused US to overestimate Russia's capabilities


The top US general in Europe said Tuesday there "could be" a gap in US intelligence gathering that caused the US to overestimate Russia's capability and underestimate Ukraine's defensive abilities before Russia attacked Ukraine.




www.cnn.com

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508861755010781195


----------



## mmr

Blinken: US hasn't seen signs Russia is serious in talks with Ukraine​
Secretary of State Antony Blinken said that he has not seen signs the talks between Ukraine and Russia are “moving forward in an effective way” because the US has not seen “signs of real seriousness” by Russia.

“There is what Russia says, and there is what Russia does. We’re focused on the latter,” said Blinken at a joint press conference with Moroccan Foreign Minister Nasser Bourita.

Blinken cautioned that Russia saying it would be reducing hostilities around Kyiv could be “a means by which Russia once again is trying to deflect and deceive people into thinking it’s not doing what it is doing.”

“If they somehow believe that an effort to subjugate “only,” in quotation marks, the eastern part of Ukraine and the southern part of Ukraine can succeed, then once again they are profoundly fooling themselves,” said Blinken.

Blinken called for Russia to “end the aggression now, stop firing, pull its forces back and of course engage in talks.”









March 29, 2022 Russia-Ukraine news


Moscow said it will "drastically reduce military activity" on two fronts — Kyiv and Chernihiv — according to the Russian defense ministry, following in-person talks between Russia and Ukraine in Istanbul. Follow here for live news updates.Follow here for live news updates.




www.cnn.com





Ukraine invited to join meeting of NATO foreign ministers next week​
Ukraine and a number of non-NATO countries have been invited to attend part of a two-day meeting of NATO foreign ministers next week, according to a statement from the military alliance headquartered in Brussels.

NATO said “the Ministers of Foreign Affairs of Australia, Finland, Georgia, Japan, the Republic of Korea, New Zealand, Sweden and Ukraine, as well as the High Representative of the European Union for Foreign Affairs” will attend one session of the meeting on April 7.

Some of ministers “may attend via video link,” the statement added.

Foreign ministers from the 30 NATO countries will convene for the second time since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. The session follows last week’s high-level meeting of NATO leaders for an extraordinary summit on the crisis.


----------



## F-22Raptor

mmr said:


> Top US general in Europe says there 'could be' an intelligence gap in US that caused US to overestimate Russia's capabilities​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Top US general in Europe says there 'could be' an intelligence gap in US that caused US to overestimate Russia's capabilities
> 
> 
> The top US general in Europe said Tuesday there "could be" a gap in US intelligence gathering that caused the US to overestimate Russia's capability and underestimate Ukraine's defensive abilities before Russia attacked Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com




The US overestimates it’s adversaries capabilities. I’ve always said this.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Viet said:


> That’s a breach of contract.
> There is no way Germany will join Russia or China payment system.



No gas, oil, or other minerals for them from Russia then. I think people are missing the point here: The West including Germany sanctioned Russia by freezing all Russian assets in their banks. That means, Russians can't access any funds that Germany and others would use to buy Russian products. So if someone is taking your stuff but not giving you your money, you can't continue selling your products, or he or she can use currency that you have control over. There are no contracts violated; the Western sanctions are causing Russia to demand Ruble for Oil and Gas payments.

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## letsrock

Apollon said:


> After reunion, west germany had to spend gargantuan amounts of money to bring east germany on similar living conditions. Houses were breaking down, streets were broken, the entire country was grey and broken apart.
> 
> There is a reason why the east germans fired that regime to hell.



East germany had almost 70% of gdp per capita as west germany. Anyone can put a spin on anything, whatever it may be its completely different from your claims that if russia rules germany it will be hellscape.


----------



## mmr

US troops in Poland are training Ukrainians on how to use weapons sent by the West | CNN Politics


US troops in Poland have been providing Ukrainians with some instruction on how to use the weapons the West has been shipping into Ukraine, sources familiar with the matter tell CNN.




www.cnn.com





US troops in Poland are training Ukrainians on how to use weapons sent by the West​


----------



## letsrock

Viet said:


> East Germany was richest among the poor of the East bloc. However if comparing to west Germany, East Germany was an extremely poor country. People standing in long queue for banana. People wanting to buy a car had to wait 20 years. The cars made in East Germany were terrible bad and primitive. I was there.


As far as i know there was never any shortage of food in germany. Yes they did not have 2 dozen varieties of cornflakes or fruits - but bread, meat, housing, public transport was cheap and plenty.


----------



## Ich

Apollon said:


> Dude...Germany is one of richest nations under the sun. Lives of German people? Because a 3% recession.
> 
> Sorry but as i said, i find weakness disgusting.



I already destroyed your "3% fairy tale" some pages ago...

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## gambit

SuvarnaTeja said:


> Is it time then for US to stop lecturing others on Intellectual Property Rights?


Why?

First, what made you think we stole it? Second, What the Ukrainians do with their products are their rights, so if they want to share the technicals of the Kolchuga system with US, why should we say no? Maybe you should educate yourself on the IP rights issue.

There is no point in anyone pressing on what we *WILL* learn of the Kolchuga system. Our 'foreign technology exploitation' offices of all branches of the US military is the best in the world, and given what we got in the Nevada desert, the best in the solar system. Personally, I have some good guesses on what we will learn. But as of now, this is just another step in making sure our lead in 'stealth' remains the lead for everyone, including China, to follow.

As far as Russia's Su-57 go, once this war is over, the 57 will become another trophy in *OUR* museum. Russia's low radar observability program is over. It was never a good start in the first place.

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## Apollon

letsrock said:


> East germany had almost 70% of gdp per capita as west germany. Anyone can put a spin on anything, whatever it may be its completely different from your claims that if russia rules germany it will be hellscape.



Russia is shithole (i know, i was there at a competition), with no europen standards in any field. 

Beside that, a lower culture can never rule over a higher culture. Europe is a continent with completly different culture, freedom and far more advanced science.

It is important that we destroy russias economy now before we have to make real war.



Ich said:


> I already destroyed your "3% fairy tale" some pages ago...



Are you already scared that the kremlin dwarf makes you wear a sweater because it gets bit colder? Dude seriously, grow a backbone

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## Hassan Al-Somal

🇷🇺🇺🇦Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

▫️The Russian Armed Forces continue the special military operation in Ukraine.

▫️Kalibr high-precision sea-based cruise missiles destroyed large ammunition depots near Ushomir and Veselovka, Zhytomir Region, from which a group of Ukrainian troops in Kiev's suburbs had been supplied.

💥On March 28, Russian aviation and air defence means shot down 3 more Ukrainian Air Force aircraft in the air: 2 Su-24s west of Korosten, Zhytomir Region and 1 Su-25 over Druzhkovka, Donetsk Region. 

▫️Ukrainian Mi-8 helicopter, which was heading for the emergency evacuation of the Azov national battalion commanders who had abandoned their subordinates, has been shot down near Mariupol, 5 kilometres from the coastline over the Sea of Azov.

💥In addition, 1 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicle was shot down near Chernobaevka.

✈️💥Operational-tactical and army aviation hit 41 military assets of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Among them: 2 multiple launch rocket system, 1 electronic warfare station, 2 field ammunition depots and 24 areas of Ukrainian military equipment concentration.

💥In total, 123 aircfaft and 74 helicopters, 309 unmanned aerial vehicles, 1,721 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 172 multiple launch rocket systems, 721 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,568 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.

#Russia #Ukraine #Briefing 
@mod_russia_en

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Why is Aghan Taliban speaking Arabic? I think it's Syria footage spliced with some shots from Afghanistan.


Judging from the video quality, I am not surprise at all if some of the footage in that video were from Afghan-Soviet war.


----------



## SuvarnaTeja

gambit said:


> Why?
> 
> First, what made you think we stole it? Second, What the Ukrainians do with their products are their rights, so if they want to share the technicals of the Kolchuga system with US, why should we say no? Maybe you should educate yourself on the IP rights issue.
> 
> There is no point in anyone pressing on what we *WILL* learn of the Kolchuga system. Our 'foreign technology exploitation' offices of all branches of the US military is the best in the world, and given what we got in the Nevada desert, the best in the solar system. Personally, I have some good guesses on what we will learn. But as of now, this is just another step in making sure our lead in 'stealth' remains the lead for everyone, including China, to follow.
> 
> As far as Russia's Su-57 go, once this war is over, the 57 will become another trophy in *OUR* museum. Russia's low radar observability program is over. It was never a good start in the first place.



Yeah Whole world knows about it.

Good Nazis, Bad Nazis

Good Terrorists, Bad Terrorists

Good Ukrainians, Bad Ukrainians

Good Biolabs, Bad Biolabs


When the U.S. recruited Nazis for 'Operation Paperclip'​

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## Apollon

letsrock said:


> As far as i know there was never any shortage of food in germany. Yes they did not have 2 dozen varieties of cornflakes or fruits - but bread, meat, housing, public transport was cheap and plenty.



Cheap and plenty low quality rubbish. 

Banana, pineapple or oranges were absolute luxury? Travel? Was impossible. It was almost impossible to get a car or color tv.

Housing? Was crap. Because the buildings were falling apart. 

You know what? When i want a pineapple and cant get it, that government needs to be destroyed. They can shove their slimy meat and bread where no sun shines.

Its exactly what i mean. Dogs might be happy about cheap meat and bread. Im a human and if i want gly business class to argentina i decide that, whenever i want.

Another russian helicopter mows some grass









Russian helicopter shot down as Ukrainian military target air force


A low-flying Russian helicopter has been gunned down by Ukrainian air defence after footage emerged showing an aircraft hitting the ground and exploding into a black plume of smoke.




www.express.co.uk


----------



## Ich

Apollon said:


> Are you already scared that the kremlin dwarf makes you wear a sweater because it gets bit colder? Dude seriously, grow a backbone



No, i am not scared. I had a time where i blanket my self with snow in the night cause the snow was not as cold as the air around, which was -20 to -25 Celsius at these days. No sleeping back. Only normal clothes and a jacket. I survived these days. And i survived a lot other things you should hope you never have...cause you would die. 

I am not scared, but i want good things to german people.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508852057318608909

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508869407879090177


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal



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## Clutch

mmr said:


> Blinken: US hasn't seen signs Russia is serious in talks with Ukraine​
> Secretary of State Antony Blinken said that he has not seen signs the talks between Ukraine and Russia are “moving forward in an effective way” because the US has not seen “signs of real seriousness” by Russia.
> 
> “There is what Russia says, and there is what Russia does. We’re focused on the latter,” said Blinken at a joint press conference with Moroccan Foreign Minister Nasser Bourita.



USA wants this war to continue. The money making and laundering has only just started for the warmongers.

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## letsrock

Apollon said:


> Cheap and plenty low quality rubbish.
> 
> Banana, pineapple or oranges were absolute luxury? Travel? Was impossible. It was almost impossible to get a car or color tv.
> 
> Housing? Was crap. Because the buildings were falling apart.
> 
> You know what? When i want a pineapple and cant get it, that government needs to be destroyed. They can shove their slimy meat and bread where no sun shines.
> 
> Its exactly what i mean. Dogs might be happy about cheap meat and bread. Im a human and if i want gly business class to argentina i decide that, whenever i want.
> 
> Another russian helicopter mows some grass
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian helicopter shot down as Ukrainian military target air force
> 
> 
> A low-flying Russian helicopter has been gunned down by Ukrainian air defence after footage emerged showing an aircraft hitting the ground and exploding into a black plume of smoke.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.express.co.uk


It is well known that soviet bloc countries were bad in market economy at low level - like cola/cornflakes etc. But they were excellent and matching step to step with anyone at high tech level - rocket science, medicine etc. But that was easy to correct as china demonstrated with its reforms.

Anyway you are way exaggerating things in east germany. Many germans are pretty nostalgic about it.

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## Clutch

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508852057318608909


What is that metal this ng he is rubbing all over the injured guy???... That's just odd...


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508844523866177544


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508875347890081794

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508843821672677378

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## Apollon

Ich said:


> No, i am not scared. I had a time where i blanket my self with snow in the night cause the snow was not as cold as the air around, which was -20 to -25 Celsius at these days. No sleeping back. Only normal clothes and a jacket. I survived these days. And i survived a lot other things you should hope you never have...cause you would die.
> 
> I am not scared, but i want good things to german people.



Being a slave is not good.

With your ideology, Greece would have surrendered to the persians and europe would not exist. 

Being on the leash of a tyrant is not good

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## Apollon

letsrock said:


> It is well known that soviet bloc countries were bad in market economy at low level - like cola/cornflakes etc. But they were excellent and matching step to step with anyone at high tech level - rocket science, medicine etc. But that was easy to correct as china demonstrated with its reforms.
> 
> Anyway you are way exaggerating things in east germany. Many germans are pretty nostalgic about it.



Yes, we all remember those first class rocket trips east germans did to fly to vacation...wait a minute, there was no vacation. Too bad.

And no,,nobody is nostalgic. Young people despise east germany and the only ones that cling to it are losers who did not get a job after reunion. They are obsolete, now over 50 and soon gone as well. Their party that represents them is at 4.0% at last election. They die off and thats it. 

I exaggerate nothing. Millions tried to run away. Here thats how beloved east germany was.






First train with east germans arrives in west germany. People cry and can finally eat good food. Was overwhelming for many to see choclate for first time in their life. Its crazy to see how people are shaking, realizing that communist terror that was pushed over half of germany is finally over.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

It looks like the Russian army learned something from their previous mistakes. Now, troops and supplies traveling in and to Ukraine have close air support. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508465861450948611

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508838288731295752


----------



## dBSPL

Deputy Mikhail Delyagin on the Russian state channel "Russia 1" TV channel:

"There are problems against Azerbaijan. Do we need Azerbaijan's oil industry? No, it is extremely vulnerable. If people don't understand words, they will have to start understanding from actions"

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508540527058292736
If Russia extends the war to the territory of Azerbaijan, this will mean the physical unification of the Turkic world. I'm sure the political mind in russia is not as stupid as this deputy.

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## gambit

Ukraine will not join NATO? Big fekking deal, we say. We do not need Ukraine to be in NATO for Ukraine to be in NATO. Get it?

There are two forms of membership: official and notional. Or explicit and implicit.

Official membership is when you wears the club clothing and have special access to the clubhouse. Notional membership is when even though your name is not in the club roster, you hang with the club members and they like you enough to sometimes invite you inside the clubhouse. Notional membership is when everyone shares common ideas, at least at the philosophical and/or moral levels, like how JPN, SKR, Taiwan, and Singapore are notionally in the conceptual 'The West' group even though they are geographically in Asia.

When this war is over and whatever leftover form is Ukraine, everyone, including Russia, will know that Ukraine is a NATO member. Officially or not.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508878222477434880

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508817755872677889


----------



## Apollon

dBSPL said:


> Deputy Mikhail Delyagin on the Russian state channel "Russia 1" TV channel:
> 
> "There are problems against Azerbaijan. Do we need Azerbaijan's oil industry? No, it is extremely vulnerable. If people don't understand words, they will have to start understanding from actions"
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508540527058292736
> If Russia extends the war to the territory of Azerbaijan, this will mean the physical unification of the Turkic world. I'm sure the political mind in russia is not as stupid as this deputy.




When i said few days ago, that Russia wages war against europe and others will follow you dismissed this. Azerbaijan will be as much victim as Ukraine if we dont stop this now


----------



## Viet

letsrock said:


> As far as i know there was never any shortage of food in germany. Yes they did not have 2 dozen varieties of cornflakes or fruits - but bread, meat, housing, public transport was cheap and plenty.


The living standard of East Germany (the richest among the poor in East bloc) was about 30 percent of west Germany. It will take 50y to have equal in East and west. Think about it, west Germany has pumped $2 trillion into East Germany since reunification.

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## Apollon

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508817755872677889



Yes he also said they sized entire ukraine 5 days after invasion ha ha .

Dude you dont know how propaganda works.


----------



## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508878222477434880



I am surprised how little action behind the enemy lines is happening on the Russian side.

The entirety of Russian security apparatus is preoccupied with Ukraine. It's an ideal time to send some saboteaurs through the currently porous borders


----------



## Vergennes

lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507819641673900037

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## FairAndUnbiased

Paul2 said:


> Russia threatened to cut off gas for 1 month in a row, when its troops were fighting, and dying, and is still not bluffing...
> 
> Closing a tap on the pipe must be definitely harder than invading a country.


What happened to your Mykolaiv counteroffensive on Kherson? All news on it seems to have stopped.

Russia already handing out Russian currency in Kherson. Seems to me like it's getting ready for total annexation, not being retaken by Ukraine.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

This is it. We're officially into World War III. The death of the fiat money has started. But the empire will not take this decision lightly. 




The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508384767628263426
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508024342864711683
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508456867097313287
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508446218267115526

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## Ich

Apollon said:


> Being a slave is not good.


Do i really sound like a slave to you? So sorry.

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## nang2

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> This is it. We're officially into World War III. The death of the fiat money has started. But the empire will not take this decision lightly.


5000 Ruble per gram means 81 Ruble per dollar based on the current spot gold price ($1917 per troy ounce (31.1 grams)).



Ich said:


> Do i really sound like a slave to you? So sorry.


As I said, he is suffering from some imagined misery.

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## jamal18

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> This is it. We're officially into World War III. The death of the fiat money has started. But the empire will not take this decision lightly.


This really is at a different quantum level. Any currency linked to Gold is the nemesis of the dollar. If this doesn't kick-off WW3 from the Americans, nothing will.

Remember, China has large Gold holdings.

No matter what happens in the Ukraine, we are entering a different era.

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## kingQamaR

Clutch said:


> USA wants this war to continue. The money making and laundering has only just started for the warmongers.



It is comical how some people are still trying to blame NATO for this mess, when the last eastern expansion was over 18 years ago. The fact is that had Ukraine joined NATO with the other Baltic states in 2004, there would not be a war now, and we would not have 10s of thousands dead and 10 million plus made homeless. This is all down to Putin's delusional dream of expanding Russia, but that dream has turned into a nightmare for not only Putin but also all of Russia.

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## Apollon

Ich said:


> Do i really sound like a slave to you? So sorry.



Well you sound extremly submissive.

I ask you, when persia asked Greek states to surrender, live under their hegemony but rich...we chose to kill their ambassadors and wage war. Athens got heavily damaged but in the end the Greeks stood victorious. We chose freedom and pride over acting submissive and weak.

German history shows that too, when the Germans under Arminius fought brave against Rome.


----------



## kingQamaR

FairAndUnbiased said:


> What happened to your Mykolaiv counteroffensive on Kherson? All news on it seems to have stopped.
> 
> Russia already handing out Russian currency in Kherson. Seems to me like it's getting ready for total annexation, not being retaken by Ukraine.



Putin with the economy of Spain simply can't afford this much longer , he's lost far far more soldiers and equipment than he ever thought possible , The size of Russia compared to Ukraine is ridiculous. Just goes to show the strength of Russia ain't all its cracked out to be

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## Vergennes

This is becoming pure comedy


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508882239110717443

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## mmr

Apollon said:


> Well you sound extremly submissive.
> 
> I ask you, when persia asked Greek states to surrender, live under their hegemony but rich...we chose to kill their ambassadors and wage war. Athens got heavily damaged but in the end the Greeks stood victorious. We chose freedom and pride over acting submissive and weak.
> 
> German history shows that too, when the Germans under Arminius fought brave against Rome.


Just wait a week. Germany will only pay in euro. so as japan will only pay in dollar. Putin's russia economy is even smaller then canada...and canada's economy is half of California lol

and Russia will not cut off gas. they simply don't have the balls. You can already see they are in back foot now.

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> No gas, oil, or other minerals for them from Russia then. I think people are missing the point here: The West including Germany sanctioned Russia by freezing all Russian assets in their banks. That means, Russians can't access any funds that Germany and others would use to buy Russian products. So if someone is taking your stuff but not giving you your money, you can't continue selling your products, or he or she can use currency that you have control over. There are no contracts violated; the Western sanctions are causing Russia to demand Ruble for Oil and Gas payments.


That’s not the way how it works.

Let’s say Germany pays 200m euros per day to Gazprom. The money is transferred to the bank that belongs to Gasprom. This Gazprom bank is excluded from sanctions. Gazprom gives parts of the money to Putin gov. Putin can use the euros in Germany to buy stuffs to support the war.

You see the money is not flown to Russia central bank.

Germany wants to exclude gas payments from sanctions regime.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

kingQamaR said:


> Putin with the economy of Spain simply can't afford this much longer , he's lost far far more soldiers and equipment than he ever thought possible , The size of Russia compared to Ukraine is ridiculous. Just goes to show the strength of Russia ain't all its cracked out to be


Ukraine has 1/4 population of Russia and 1/8 GDP. It's comparable to Imperial Japan vs USA.


----------



## letsrock

Viet said:


> The living standard of East Germany (the richest among the poor in East bloc) was about 30 percent of west Germany. It will take 50y to have equal in East and west. Think about it, west Germany has pumped $2 trillion into East Germany since reunification.


Where are you getting your data. CIA worldbook shows East Germany had 2/3rds GDP per capita. Living standards for overall population must be close as in a socialist country poor would be better taken care off.

And guess what - even 30 years after unification per capita GDP of east continues to be in around 2/3rd mark of west. It shows there was no relative improvement despite getting rid of soviet system.

And understand that this GDP of east was achieved despite constant emigration of white collar workers from east to west. Which is normal as capital would pay more wages for a doctor or a lawyer than a state.

2 trillion is just headline number. You need to dig in to get actual data. was not west Germany getting taxes and cheap labor from east ? And don't disregard the fact that west Germany took away many social benefits east had - free childcare, right to job etc.



Apollon said:


> Yes, we all remember those first class rocket trips east germans did to fly to vacation...wait a minute, there was no vacation. Too bad.
> 
> And no,,nobody is nostalgic. Young people despise east germany and the only ones that cling to it are losers who did not get a job after reunion. They are obsolete, now over 50 and soon gone as well. Their party that represents them is at 4.0% at last election. They die off and thats it.
> 
> I exaggerate nothing. Millions tried to run away. Here thats how beloved east germany was.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First train with east germans arrives in west germany. People cry and can finally eat good food. Was overwhelming for many to see choclate for first time in their life. Its crazy to see how people are shaking, realizing that communist terror that was pushed over half of germany is finally over.



yea right. If i believed the same media i would still be thinking Chinese eat rats and are piss poor. One has to go out on a limb to seek information for these states.



Viet said:


> That’s not the way how it works.
> 
> Let’s say Germany pays 200m euros per day to Gazprom. The money is transferred to the bank that belongs to Gasprom. This Gazprom bank is excluded from sanctions. Gazprom gives parts of the money to Putin gov. Putin can use the euros in Germany to buy stuffs to support the war.
> 
> You see the money is not flown to Russia central bank.
> 
> Germany wants to exclude gas payments from sanctions regime.



Hasan is right and you are wrong. It is you who is not understanding the situation correctly. What do you mean Gazprom "gives" money to Putin gov? is he going to give cash personally to Putin by hand? it has to go Russian central bank

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## mmr

Clutch said:


> USA wants this war to continue. The money making and laundering has only just started for the warmongers.


Russia cant be trusted. Until full withdraw is done its better to be prepared.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> This is becoming pure comedy
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508882239110717443



The tank looks like it is upside down - so you have to assume the crew are still in there(dead!).


----------



## kingQamaR

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Ukraine has 1/4 population of Russia and 1/8 GDP. It's comparable to Imperial Japan vs USA.



The problem is not that there is no money in Russia .....it's just that the wrong people have it.


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## nang2

kingQamaR said:


> The problem is not that there is no money in Russia .....it's just that the wrong people have it.


Everyone agrees with this, even the wrong people.


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## sammuel

~

77-year-old Russian painter Elena Osipova from St Petersburg protests against the war and arrested​

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## FairAndUnbiased

kingQamaR said:


> The problem is not that there is no money in Russia .....it's just that the wrong people have it.


Ukraine has every problem Russia does but worse. Their GDP per capita is far lower than Russia.


----------



## sur

(src)

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## FairAndUnbiased

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508666017945378816
Russian annexation of Kherson happening in real time.

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## nang2

FairAndUnbiased said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508666017945378816
> Russian annexation of Kherson happening in real time.


It has to be in order to connect Crimea and Donesk in land.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508907848465620998

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508908247197097999

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## FairAndUnbiased

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508907848465620998
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508908247197097999


What if you're wrong? Any accountability for this prediction?


----------



## mmr

US skeptical of Russian claims it's scaling back the war in Ukraine​








US skeptical of Russian claims it's scaling back the war in Ukraine


President Joe Biden and other American officials voiced extreme caution Tuesday at signals Russia is scaling back its military operations near Kyiv, suggesting they were waiting to see stronger signs of de-escalation before making an assessment of Moscow's intentions.




www.cnn.com














Keane: Russia trying to reconstitute forces after losses in Ukraine


Fox News senior strategic analyst Gen. Jack Keane (Ret.) weighs in as Russia and Ukraine hold ceasefire negotiations.




video.foxnews.com


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## F-22Raptor

FairAndUnbiased said:


> What if you're wrong? Any accountability for this prediction?




The Russians have been effectively defeated on the northern axis. Now it’s time to rout their withdrawal before these forces redeploy to the east. 

Outside of long range missile or artillery strikes on Kiev, the Kiev offensive is over.


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## kingQamaR

The original aims - all on Russian sites - were to cut Ukraine off from the sea and occupy the east from the Deneiper to the Russian border. No fly warnings were lodged until 8 March in the east and the rest of Ukraine until the first week of May, when the Russians expected it all to be over. They also had their 24 point list of "demands", which included Russian bases in Ukraine, amongst many others which were to be imposed. He had the Crimea and the west did nothing, but that's back on the table now. There is no way that th west can start trading with Russia again until Ukraine is happy with a peace deal and that will NOT include giving away Crimea. Putin is defeated, but he just doesn't know it.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508904940181372936

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## Type59

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians have been effectively defeated on the northern axis. Now it’s time to rout their withdrawal before these forces redeploy to the east.
> 
> Outside of long range missile or artillery strikes on Kiev, the Kiev offensive is over.



What about east, UA forces are effectively isolated, soo both sides have received heavy blows. With Russian air dominance in Donbass, its gonna be costly for UA too reinforce them positions.

It's better to admit failure and redeploy.

It would suit Russians, if UA went on the offensive because them man portable anti air and armour are less effective.

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## Wood

kingQamaR said:


> The original aims - all on Russian sites - were to cut Ukraine off from the sea and occupy the east from the Deneiper to the Russian border. No fly warnings were lodged until 8 March in the east and the rest of Ukraine until the first week of May, when the Russians expected it all to be over. They also had their 24 point list of "demands", which included Russian bases in Ukraine, amongst many others which were to be imposed. He had the Crimea and the west did nothing, but that's back on the table now. There is no way that th west can start trading with Russia again until Ukraine is happy with a peace deal and that will NOT include giving away Crimea. Putin is defeated, but he just doesn't know it.


Based on testimony of Ukrainians who live in Russia (as seen on YouTube), I think that majority of Russians really want the Soviet Union to be back. They think of Ukrainian nationalism as a disease that can be cured. Belarus for them is already fully ready to bring back Soviet Union.

Russian nationalism is largely ethno-nationalism. Russians are fully willing to trample and kill people in Ukraine who do not want to be part of their dream. I'm beginning to think that even if Russian state TV broadcasts the real toll of war on Ukrainian civilians, it will not convince the Russian nationalists to turn against the war. If this is true, then the failure to annex Ukraine to build the foundation of Slav kingdom will become a shock to these people.

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## gambit

You people have heard that Sinopec cancelled a deal with Russia, right? I did said that China was slow walking away from Russia.


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## PakFactor

kingQamaR said:


> The original aims - all on Russian sites - were to cut Ukraine off from the sea and occupy the east from the Deneiper to the Russian border. No fly warnings were lodged until 8 March in the east and the rest of Ukraine until the first week of May, when the Russians expected it all to be over. They also had their 24 point list of "demands", which included Russian bases in Ukraine, amongst many others which were to be imposed. He had the Crimea and the west did nothing, but that's back on the table now. There is no way that th west can start trading with Russia again until Ukraine is happy with a peace deal and that will NOT include giving away Crimea. Putin is defeated, but he just doesn't know it.



Crimea I think it'll stay with Russia but it depends how talks go and what's agreed upon, I suppose until more details emerge.

Rest I agree with you, and you know what I like that, I like a wounded bear as I said many times I don't think Russia would have done this without tactic approval of the Chinese. The Chinese in my opinion used Russia to test the waters they will study this and insulate themselves in the eventuality they have to go to war, while keeping the European theater open. Having a wounded bear that's a hot iron on European borders in my opinion is a good thing from a Pakistani stand point, and they'll have to deal with this long-term.

As for the Russians they will regroup and rearm. They are known to hold grudges and get revenge down the road. In a way this war was a blessing as well for them, they now know they have to clean house in the rank and file, the purge will be brutal almost Stalin like.

One aspect of this conflict which we forget is the media. It's portrayal of European life versus "The Rest" didn't play out well and it's effect will be long lasting on the Russian population and "The Rest", and it was about time these inner feelings were let out. You should have seen the Polish MP today it brought a smile to my face the more he talked. Cold War like Russian-phobia, Islamophobia and Sinophobia this couldn't have gotten any better than this.

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## Wood

gambit said:


> You people have heard that Sinopec cancelled a deal with Russia, right? I did said that China was slow walking away from Russia.


Just saw that news. Very interesting development. 









Chinese oil giant Sinopec halts Russian projects amid West’s sanctions on Moscow - National | Globalnews.ca


The move by Asia's biggest oil refiner highlights the risks, even to Russia's most important diplomatic partner, of unexpectedly heavy Western-led sanctions.




globalnews.ca







> Beijing has repeatedly voiced opposition to the sanctions, insisting it will maintain normal economic and trade exchanges with Russia, and has refused to condemn Moscow’s actions in Ukraine or call them an invasion.
> 
> But behind the scenes, the government is wary of Chinese companies running afoul of sanctions – it is pressing companies to tread carefully with investments in Russia, its second-largest oil supplier and third-largest gas provider.


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## FairAndUnbiased

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians have been effectively defeated on the northern axis. Now it’s time to rout their withdrawal before these forces redeploy to the east.
> 
> Outside of long range missile or artillery strikes on Kiev, the Kiev offensive is over.


You made the specific prediction that there was going to be a Ukrainian counterattack to turn Russian withdrawal into a rout.

You want to bet on this prediction, loser gets banned for 3 months? 7 days for a counterattack and turning the withdrawal into a rout (>30% Russian forces proven to be destroyed or captured)

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## gambit

Wood said:


> Just saw that news. Very interesting development.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese oil giant Sinopec halts Russian projects amid West’s sanctions on Moscow - National | Globalnews.ca
> 
> 
> The move by Asia's biggest oil refiner highlights the risks, even to Russia's most important diplomatic partner, of unexpectedly heavy Western-led sanctions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> globalnews.ca


There *WILL* be more individual disengagements as Chinese companies do their cost/benefits analyses and find no real benefits in Russia. It maybe possible that China will find Russia even worthless as an international b!tch. How bad can it get...

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## Wood

gambit said:


> There *WILL* be more individual disengagements as Chinese companies do their cost/benefits analyses and find no real benefits in Russia. It maybe possible that China will find Russia even worthless as an international b!tch. How bad can it get...


Do you think western sanctions on Russia will be removed if Putin decides to stop the hostilities in Ukraine? I don't think that Putin can afford to give up his territorial gains in the east and south given the level of causalities endured so far.


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## gambit

Wood said:


> Do you think western sanctions on Russia will be removed if Putin decides to stop the hostilities in Ukraine? I don't think that Putin can afford to give up his territorial gains in the east and south given the level of causalities endured so far.


My opinion is that sanctions will be removed only if Poutine is out. We may ease some, but the sanctions will remain as long as Poutine is in power. And if Poutine is out, Ukrainians will get their land back because the Russian leadership cannot afford to keep the Russian economy bottomed out. No one, not even the Western powers, expected the speed and vehemence of the combined governmental and non-governmental entities that went against Russia. There is also the option of forcing Russia to compensate Ukraine for the war.

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## mmr

gambit said:


> You people have heard that Sinopec cancelled a deal with Russia, right? I did said that China was slow walking away from Russia.


pdf fan boys disagree lol


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## FairAndUnbiased

Russian drone guided artillery hammer Ukrainian positions.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508904300818358283


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## WotTen

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Ukraine has every problem Russia does but worse. Their GDP per capita is far lower than Russia.



The West will make sure that frozen Russian money in the West is used to pay for the reconstruction of Ukraine, compensation to Ukrainian victims, compensation to Western corporate assets seized in Russia, etc., etc.

It will be like what the Allies did to Germany after WW1.

Will it push Russia back into war, as it did Germany in WW2?


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## Clutch

kingQamaR said:


> It is comical how some people are still trying to blame NATO for this mess, when the last eastern expansion was over 18 years ago. The fact is that had Ukraine joined NATO with the other Baltic states in 2004, there would not be a war now, and we would not have 10s of thousands dead and 10 million plus made homeless. This is all down to Putin's delusional dream of expanding Russia, but that dream has turned into a nightmare for not only Putin but also all of Russia.



Actually, I couldn't care less. Let them kill each other off... I do not have a dog in the fight. White on White killings.

As long as they don't take the rest of the world along with them...

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## FairAndUnbiased

WotTen said:


> The West will make sure that frozen Russian money in the West is used to pay for the reconstruction of Ukraine, compensation to Ukrainian victims, compensation to Western corporate assets seized in Russia, etc., etc.
> 
> It will be like what the Allies did to Germany after WW1.
> 
> Will it push Russia back into war, as it did Germany in WW2?


In general, foreign reserves are on a ledger in the issuing country. For example, Euro foreign reserves are held on computers in the ECB.

The minute Russian reserves were frozen, it meant the money is gone. As for how much goes to Ukraine, that is independent of how much money Russia loses. They can enter whatever number they want on the Ukrainian central bank account.

So it wouldn't really be reimbursement, it'll be destruction of Russian reserves and creation of money for Ukraine. That sounds like reimbursement. But since Russia likely inflicted damage exceeding the value of it's reserves they'll be forced to create more money than they can confiscate from Russia.

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## Wood

gambit said:


> My opinion is that sanctions will be removed only if Poutine is out. We may ease some, but the sanctions will remain as long as Poutine is in power. And if Poutine is out, Ukrainians will get their land back because the Russian leadership cannot afford to keep the Russian economy bottomed out. No one, not even the Western powers, expected the speed and vehemence of the combined governmental and non-governmental entities that went against Russia. There is also the option of forcing Russia to compensate Ukraine for the war.


If Putin gives up territorial gains and withdraws with only a neutrality agreement, then he would fail in the eyes of Russian public. Historically, this has meant downfall for dictators. Every despotic ruler will try to prioritize his throne above all else; for this reason I don't think that Putin will consider what you say.

But we'll see what happens, if there is a peace deal to be made in the first place.

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## WotTen

FairAndUnbiased said:


> In general, foreign reserves are on a ledger in the issuing country. For example, Euro foreign reserves are held on computers in the ECB.
> 
> The minute Russian reserves were frozen, it meant the money is gone. As for how much goes to Ukraine, that is independent of how much money Russia loses. They can enter whatever number they want on the Ukrainian central bank account.
> 
> So it wouldn't really be reimbursement, it'll be destruction of Russian reserves and creation of money for Ukraine. That sounds like reimbursement. But since Russia likely inflicted damage exceeding the value of it's reserves they'll be forced to create more money than they can confiscate from Russia.



You are right that all official Russian reserves in the West are forfeit. Russia will never see that money again. Going beyond state assets, the West might confiscate oligarch assets. It might impose a penalty on future oil/gas payments to Russia to make up the shortfall.

It seems all but official that Russia has lost this war, and the winner always writes the rules.


----------



## oberschlesier

letsrock said:


> It is well known that soviet bloc countries were bad in market economy at low level - like cola/cornflakes etc. But they were excellent and matching step to step with anyone at high tech level - rocket science, medicine etc. But that was easy to correct as china demonstrated with its reforms.
> 
> Anyway you are way exaggerating things in east germany. Many germans are pretty nostalgic about it.


You are joking, are you ? Have lived in the Eastern Block ? The quality of life was shit, corruption was everywhere, and those advances were very costly for the population and just for the state to show, how "advanced" and powerfull we are. No respect for the invidual, the state was always more important. I think in RU not much changed, hey have Kinzhal hypersonic missles, but the average troops don`t have working radios.


----------



## F-22Raptor

FairAndUnbiased said:


> You made the specific prediction that there was going to be a Ukrainian counterattack to turn Russian withdrawal into a rout.
> 
> You want to bet on this prediction, loser gets banned for 3 months? 7 days for a counterattack and turning the withdrawal into a rout (>30% Russian forces proven to be destroyed or captured)




I’m not betting on anything,  just stating that Russia has been defeated on the northern axis.

The UK MOD agrees as well:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508904940181372936

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## StraightEdge

Caitlin Johnstone ⏳ on Twitter: "The international symbol for "You're about to read a really stupid tweet." https://t.co/X264CHTB77" / Twitter

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## Clutch

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians have been effectively defeated on the northern axis. Now it’s time to rout their withdrawal before these forces redeploy to the east.
> 
> Outside of long range missile or artillery strikes on Kiev, the Kiev offensive is over.



If that is actually factual (I suspect the accuracy of information from all sources) ... Then this is a huge strategic win for Ukraine. Surprising how close Kiev is to the border of Belarus... If they are able to keep Kiev and establish an effective Eastern front... They may even make it to Donbas and then the whole war reaches a stalemate situation. A win for Ukrain. Decisive loss for Russia perhaps crippling it for decades before it could ever conduct a war beyond its borders gain. 

Russia may alternatively try and push from the East and South... A longer route to Kiev.


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## kingQamaR

Wood said:


> If Putin gives up territorial gains and withdraws with only a neutrality agreement, then he would fail in the eyes of Russian public. Historically, this has meant downfall for dictators. Every despotic ruler will try to prioritize his throne above all else; for this reason I don't think that Putin will consider what you say.
> 
> But we'll see what happens, if there is a peace deal to be made in the first place.



Putin has dug himself into a VERY deep hole over Ukraine. He totally underestimated the level of force the Russians would be met with, and his poorly trained conscripts are paying a heavy price. He now has to try and work out some way of making a withdrawal sound like a victory in order to save his own skin. I hope the West will continue with the sanctions until the ordinary Russian in the street rises up and demands change in their own country. The percentage that is supporting this war is surprisingly high and that needs to change.

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## Trango Towers

dBSPL said:


> Spokesperson of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs Mariya Zakharova praised the efforts of Turkey, which hosted the negotiations, in her statement, _*“Turkey has taken a more balanced and independent position compared to other countries. This Russophobic campaign was able to absorb neither the Turkish government nor the people as a whole. For these reasons, including Ankara’s balanced line, we accepted Turkey’s offer to contribute to the negotiations with the Ukrainian side. We are grateful for his mediation efforts to Turkey, especially the Russia-Ukraine negotiations and his efforts to resolve the situation in principle” *_.
> 
> Mentioning that Turkey did not participate in the sanctions imposed by the USA and the European Union (EU) against Russia and took decisions in line with the norms of international law, including the straits issue, Zaharova, _*“Turkey It keeps the airspace open for Russian ships and Russian aircraft” *_.


Turkey played well.
It's drones decimated Russian armour and it's policies wins both Russia and Ukraine.
This will enhance business. Drone sales will go through the roof and it puts pressure on the west for ignoring Turkey

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## Clutch

gambit said:


> You people have heard that Sinopec cancelled a deal with Russia, right? I did said that China was slow walking away from Russia.



Sinopec has investments in the West... It was either Russia or the West. They chose the West probably to safeguard their own best interests.



Trango Towers said:


> Turkey played well.
> It's drones decimated Russian armour and it's policies wins both Russia and Ukraine.
> This will enhance business. Drone sales will go through the roof and it puts pressure on the west for ignoring Turkey



I agree. Seems like Turkey came out top on this. They also hosting the current peace negotiations ceasefire... The West has played the role of the warmongers in this conflict.

Seems like the Ottoman Turks are still alive and kicking...

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## jamal18

Wood said:


> If Putin gives up territorial gains and withdraws with only a neutrality agreement, then he would fail in the eyes of Russian public. Historically, this has meant downfall for dictators. Every despotic ruler will try to prioritize his throne above all else; for this reason I don't think that Putin will consider what you say.
> 
> But we'll see what happens, if there is a peace deal to be made in the first place.


The trust deficit is so low with the West, the Russians can't do a deal with them. If Ukraine agrees to 'neutrality', what is to stop them from reneging on the deal later? The deal has to be bilateral only, and in a verifiable manner.

Lavrov has said before that the US is a disruptive influence in the negotiations.The US has basically stated that this will be a long war, and the end is regime change in moscow.

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## FairAndUnbiased

F-22Raptor said:


> I’m not betting on anything,  just stating that Russia has been defeated on the northern axis.
> 
> The UK MOD agrees as well:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508904940181372936


So no accountability for your words? If you're right then I get banned for 3 months for free. Since you're always right what do you have to lose lol?


----------



## F-22Raptor

Clutch said:


> If that is actually factual (I suspect the accuracy of information from all sources) ... Then this is a huge strategic win for Ukraine. Surprising how close Kiev is to the border of Belarus... If they are able to keep Kiev and establish an effective Eastern front... They may even make it to Donbas and then the whole war reaches a stalemate situation. A win for Ukrain. Decisive loss for Russia perhaps crippling it for decades before it could ever conduct a war beyond its borders gain.
> 
> Russia may alternatively try and push from the East and South... A longer route to Kiev.




A couple weeks into the war I said Russia doesn’t have the forces to take Kiev. Russia has nowhere near the forces to take Kiev. Putin and his Intel/mil leaders highly miscalculated. Utter incompetence


----------



## comci

F-22Raptor said:


> The US has been opposed by many countries over its lifetime. Don’t really care. We see how they all end up. Russia has already lost strategically. Chinas time will come too. The US system, while imperfect, has proven to be the best in the world. It’s why so many immigrate here. It’s why so much innovation and advancement has come from the US. I will take our people over anyones.
> 
> *China will face plant into the dirt just as Russia is doing today.*



If what your claim is true, what hold the mighty USA so far to crush China? i mean China is puny little insignificant player in front of the mighty Usa according to you. I am sure your dear leader Usa could handle China alone or is your so called mighty Usa is a🐔 that cant handle China and needs NATO/European/Asian allies to confront China?

I for one cant wait to see USA and her allies vs China confrontation/war. Mind you once the war starts, no more spam for dollar to your bankaccount for pro USA posts. You better have enough saving by that time to buy your indonesian boat.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508934973302136843


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## Clutch

F-22Raptor said:


> A couple weeks into the war I said Russia doesn’t have the forces to take Kiev. Russia has nowhere near the forces to take Kiev. Putin and his Intel/mil leaders highly miscalculated. Utter incompetence




I will disclose that my leaning were for Russia (not because of any Anti-Ukranian sentiments) but because of NATO's role of manipulation and escalation...

But, I agree with your assessment... This whole debacle is the doing of the Russian incompetence on many levels... Putin has essentially put Russia back at least 30 to 40 years... It doesn't look good for Russia.



Clutch said:


> I will disclose that my leaning were for Russia (not because of any Anti-Ukranian sentiments) but because of NATO's role of manipulation and escalation...
> 
> But, I agree with your assessment... This whole debacle is the doing of the Russian incompetence on many levels... Putin has essentially put Russia back at least 30 to 40 years... It doesn't look good for Russia.



I also think the fall out from this Ukraine loss for Russia is Russian's active role to destabilize other regions e.g. middle east and take revenge by supporting proxies against the West...

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508940429609340929

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508926607628582923


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## PakFactor

Clutch said:


> Actually, I couldn't care less. Let them kill each other off... I do not have a dog in the fight. White on White killings.
> 
> As long as they don't take the rest of the world along with them...





Clutch said:


> I will disclose that my leaning were for Russia (not because of any Anti-Ukranian sentiments) but because of NATO's role of manipulation and escalation...
> 
> But, I agree with your assessment... This whole debacle is the doing of the Russian incompetence on many levels... Putin has essentially put Russia back at least 30 to 40 years... It doesn't look good for Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> I also think the fall out from this Ukraine loss for Russia is Russian's active role to destabilize other regions e.g. middle east and take revenge by supporting proxies against the West...



I’m of the same opinion as you brother. I’m not supporting Russians cause I like them, but they serve my interests to open a front in Europe and hopefully more pain down the road so they see how it feels. There’s a reason Muslims are quite in this conflict and watching on the sidelines and Blinken running around like a horny goat in the Middle East with none to pick his balls. As you put it, it’s White on White action I could careless how many perish or they nuke themselves.

Let’s not forget the media did a good job spreading Islamophobia last 20+ years and they expected some sort of Kumbaya gathering? Or us holding hands in Kyiv and switching Facebook profile pictures? Lol. Then Sino phobia and now Russian phobia good job uniting all three.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Clutch said:


> I will disclose that my leaning were for Russia (not because of any Anti-Ukranian sentiments) but because of NATO's role of manipulation and escalation...
> 
> But, I agree with your assessment... This whole debacle is the doing of the Russian incompetence on many levels... Putin has essentially put Russia back at least 30 to 40 years... It doesn't look good for Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> I also think the fall out from this Ukraine loss for Russia is Russian's active role to destabilize other regions e.g. middle east and take revenge by supporting proxies against the West...


Russia is going to annex at minimum 2 entire Oblasts and control the mouth of the Dnieper.

This serves as a great wakeup call for the entire global South. The reality is, all your forex reserves - yes, Pakistan and India included - are just some numbers. Those numbers can change at any time as Russia proved. The only way to deter that is to either have more collateral or less exposure.

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## Ich

nang2 said:


> As I said, he is suffering from some imagined misery.



I put him on the ignore list.

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## kingQamaR

jamal18 said:


> The trust deficit is so low with the West, the Russians can't do a deal with them. If Ukraine agrees to 'neutrality', what is to stop them from reneging on the deal later? The deal has to be bilateral only, and in a verifiable manner.
> 
> Lavrov has said before that the US is a disruptive influence in the negotiations.The US has basically stated that this will be a long war, and the end is regime change in moscow.



Ukraine doesn't need donbass, but that doesn't mean it should be handed over to Putin either. If they want to be independent within Ukraine, that is an option. After a referendum that is overseen by the UN of course. But it should never be handed over.

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## PakFactor

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Russia is going to annex at minimum 2 entire Oblasts and control the mouth of the Dnieper.
> 
> This serves as a great wakeup call for the entire global South. The reality is, all your forex reserves - yes, Pakistan and India included - are just some numbers. Those numbers can change at any time as Russia proved. The only way to deter that is to either have more collateral or less exposure.



It indeed is a wake up call for other nations. Not just now but even when Venezuela was trying to recall its gold from London it wasn't released even though London has no ownership of it, if you are to hold something you be honorable.

*"The Rest" *of the nations non-aligned or in other camp should pull money out, and this goes same for the Chinese who are stashing funds in US/Canada, etc. it's stupid to buy Real Estate else-where 10,000 miles away from home when you might not have any control of it when the time comes.

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## FairAndUnbiased

PakFactor said:


> It indeed is a wake up call for other nations. Not just now but even when Venezuela was trying to recall its cold from London.
> "The Rest" of the nations non-aligned or in other camp should pull money out, and this goes same for the Chinese who are stashing funds in US/Canada, etc. it's stupid to buy Real Estate else-where 10,000 miles away from home when you might not have any control of it when the time comes.


Yep Chinese have some hard thinking to do as well, from workers to private business owner to government. What is a real safe investment, what are real risks. Hopefully this convinces the most corrupt elites that the only way to ensure their personal best interest is not to loot and take money to foreign banks but to build up their own national strength. Why loot and run when you can loot and rule?

China isn't even the worst about this. At least our oligarchs can't buy random football clubs or something.

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## Wood

jamal18 said:


> The trust deficit is so low with the West, the Russians can't do a deal with them. If Ukraine agrees to 'neutrality', what is to stop them from reneging on the deal later? The deal has to be bilateral only, and in a verifiable manner.
> 
> Lavrov has said before that the US is a disruptive influence in the negotiations.The US has basically stated that this will be a long war, and the end is regime change in moscow.


Many analysts believe that Russia has culminated. As weather improves, Russia may make another attempt to take Kiev. If this is not possible or successful, then Putin has to declare that the territorial gains in South and East of Ukraine as victory to his domestic audience. His TV pundits will attest it for him. Putin will gamble that this is enough to keep his throne.

I don't think Russia can really sustain a long war that can last for the rest of this year while reeling under Western sanctions. Accepting promises of neutrality from Ukraine will not be a matter of choice in this situation. Putin will want to believe it at that point.

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## F-22Raptor

Wood said:


> Many analysts believe that Russia has culminated. As weather improves, Russia may make another attempt to take Kiev. If this is not possible or successful, then Putin has to declare that the territorial gains in South and East of Ukraine as victory to his domestic audience. His TV pundits will attest it for him. Putin will gamble that this is enough to keep his throne.
> 
> I don't think Russia can really sustain a long war that can last for the rest of this year while reeling under Western sanctions. Accepting promises of neutrality from Ukraine will not be a matter of choice in this situation. Putin will want to believe it at that point.




Their southern axis is at risk as well. Ukrainian forces are on the outskirts of Kherson.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508940429609340929
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508926607628582923



No "Z" or "V" signs. Those vehicles didn't belong to Russia, but as usual you can run with those photos that don't prove anything.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

F-22Raptor said:


> Their southern axis is at risk as well. Ukrainian forces are on the outskirts of Kherson.


lol

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> Their southern axis is at risk as well. Ukrainian forces are on the outskirts of Kherson.



Ukrainian forces lost Mariupol, the most important city in the South - eastern part of Ukraine. Russia has established the land corridor from Russia to Crimea. They are now consolidating their hold of eastern of Ukraine. They've also destroyed the Ukrainian military capability that could post threat to Russia. By and large, Russians have accomplished their strategic objectives.

On the economic front, they're the first country that has completely rejected the US dollar as the fiat money. They've tied their rubble to the gold. So while they're waging war in Ukraine, they're also waging an open economic war against the West. If Iraq and Libya were invaded and their leaders killed after they moved away from the dollar, the West doesn't dare to attack Russia. So while the sanctions are hurting Russia, they're in a solid footing to deal with the challenges. And with the help of China, Russia has established the multi-polar world.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Ukrainian forces lost Mariupol, the most important city in the South - eastern part of Ukraine. Russia has established the land corridor from Russia to Crimea. They are now consolidating their hold of eastern of Ukraine. They've also destroyed the Ukrainian military capability that could post threat to Russia. By and large, Russians have accomplished their strategic objectives.





F-22Raptor said:


> Their southern axis is at risk as well. Ukrainian forces are on the outskirts of Kherson.











March 25, 2022 Russia-Ukraine news


A month after Russia's invasion of Ukraine, its forces are being pushed back around Kyiv and are taking defensive positions northwest of the capital, a US official said. Follow here for live news updates.




www.cnn.com






> Russian military remains in full control of city of Kherson, residents say​From CNN's Natalie Gallon, Gianluca Mezzofiore, Nick Paton Walsh, Tim Lister, Paul P. Murphy, Ellie Kaufman and Oren Liebermann
> 
> The city of Kherson remains under total Russian control, four residents of the city told CNN, contrary to number of reports from other media outlets, citing a senior US defense official.



???????????????????????????????????????????????????????


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## WotTen

FairAndUnbiased said:


> This serves as a great wakeup call for the entire global South. The reality is, all your forex reserves - yes, Pakistan and India included - are just some numbers. Those numbers can change at any time as Russia proved. The only way to deter that is to either have more collateral or less exposure.



Personally, I don't understand why countries keep their foreign reserves in other countries. This includes government investments in other countries.

For example, Saudi Arabia and UAE have billions invested in the West, and then they go around asking foreigners to FDI in their own countries. Why not invest your own billions in your own country instead of leaving it hostage in other countries?

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## FuturePAF

Clutch said:


> I will disclose that my leaning were for Russia (not because of any Anti-Ukranian sentiments) but because of NATO's role of manipulation and escalation...
> 
> But, I agree with your assessment... This whole debacle is the doing of the Russian incompetence on many levels... Putin has essentially put Russia back at least 30 to 40 years... It doesn't look good for Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> I also think the fall out from this Ukraine loss for Russia is Russian's active role to destabilize other regions e.g. middle east and take revenge by supporting proxies against the West...


 It to mention Russia will fall further behind other nations in military technology, as they will have little extra money to maintain much less modernize their military and military industrial complex once this war is over, for many years to come.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

WotTen said:


> You are right that all official Russian reserves in the West are forfeit. Russia will never see that money again. Going beyond state assets, the West might confiscate oligarch assets. It might impose a penalty on future oil/gas payments to Russia to make up the shortfall.
> 
> It seems all but official that Russia has lost this war, and the winner always writes the rules.



I disagree. In the eyes of Russian intellectuals and many others, Russians, Chinese, Iranians, Turkey and other countries who oppose the hegemonic West will be winners when the dust settles. Why? Because the West using the SWIFT system will no longer be able to sanction other countries as there will be other options. The fiat money will also lose its weight.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Ukrainian forces lost Mariupol, the most important city in the South - eastern part of Ukraine. Russia has established the land corridor from Russia to Crimea. They are now consolidating their hold of eastern of Ukraine. They've also destroyed the Ukrainian military capability that could post threat to Russia. By and large, Russians have accomplished their strategic objectives.
> 
> On the economic front, they're the first country that has completely rejected the US dollar as the fiat money. They've tied their rubble to the gold. So while they're waging war in Ukraine, they're also waging an open economic war against the West. If Iraq and Libya were invaded and their leaders killed after they moved away from the dollar, the West doesn't dare to attack Russia. So while the sanctions are hurting Russia, they're in a solid footing to deal with the challenges. And with the help of China, Russia has established the multi-polar world.




Russia has strategically lost and have come nowhere close to achieving its objectives. It’s been humiliated in front of the world and it’s economy has been destroyed. 

The Pentagon no longer labels Russia as a long term threat. That really says it all. Russia has been set back decades.


----------



## WotTen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I disagree. In the eyes of Russian intellectuals and many others, Russians, Chinese, Iranians, Turkey and other countries who oppose the hegemonic West will be winners when the dust settles. Why? Because the West using the SWIFT system will no longer be able to sanction other countries as there will be other options. The fiat money will also lose its weight.



It would be interesting to compare the total GDP of countries opposing Russia v/s those which are neutral or supporting Russia.

At the end of the day, the only number that matters is the money not humans (sorry). In fact human without money is a liability, not an asset.



FuturePAF said:


> It to mention Russia will fall further behind other nations in military technology, as they will have little extra money to maintain much less modernize their military and military industrial complex once this war is over, for many years to come.



A more likely outcome is that research facilities and personnel move to China with an understanding that results will be shared by both countries.

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## Wood



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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia has strategically lost and have come nowhere close to achieving its objectives. It’s been humiliated in front of the world and it’s economy has been destroyed.
> 
> The Pentagon no longer labels Russia as a long term threat. That really says it all. Russia has been set back decades.



How Russia was setback in decades when no single bomb fell on Russia? According to Putin, US and Western sanctions is something they learned to live with. Guys, look at the facts, and not mere slogans. Russians knew what is ahead of them when they entered this conflict. When they established the SFPS financial system and moved most of their funds from the West, they were preparing for this.

Besides, do you realize the significance of having a land corridor from Russia to Crimea? That is a gain and not a lost.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508941976812544005

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508931141457350663

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508934551690780674


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## Hassan Al-Somal

WotTen said:


> It would be interesting to compare the total GDP of countries opposing Russia v/s those which are neutral or supporting Russia.
> 
> At the end of the day, the only number that matters is the money not humans (sorry). In fact human without money is a liability, not an asset.
> 
> 
> 
> A more likely outcome is that research facilities and personnel move to China with an understanding that results will be shared by both countries.



So a country with the largest reserves of oil, gas, gold, Tin, Titanium, other minerals, and food self sufficient will not have enough money? Give me a break. Let us see in 2 decades, and see where the Rubble is and where the Dollar is. By disconnecting the Rubble from the US dollar to Gold, Russia under Putin has started the process of rendering the fiat money useless.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507147926094635009

How the US views Russia strategically in the future


----------



## gambit

Wood said:


> If Putin gives up territorial gains and withdraws with only a neutrality agreement, then he would fail in the eyes of Russian public. Historically, this has meant downfall for dictators. Every despotic ruler will try to prioritize his throne above all else; for this reason I don't think that Putin will consider what you say.
> 
> But we'll see what happens, *if there is a peace deal to be made in the first place*.


Any peace deal would mean the end of Poutine. Wars of conquest have only one outcome: conquest. Whether that conquest came from literally overrunning the land and the people, or the people submitted, but that is the only wanted outcome. Neither is happening in Ukraine. Russia is not making much headway and the Ukrainians are too stubborn, well trained, and sufficiently equipped. A peace deal is a tacit admission that Poutine failed and dictators cannot afford even a single failure.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508919919076950023

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508914920523509766

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508873229070393345


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508949158526345219

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508835134270631941

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## Wood

gambit said:


> Any peace deal would mean the end of Poutine. Wars of conquest have only one outcome: conquest. Whether that conquest came from literally overrunning the land and the people, or the people submitted, but that is the only wanted outcome. Neither is happening in Ukraine. Russia is not making much headway and the Ukrainians are too stubborn, well trained, and sufficiently equipped. A peace deal is a tacit admission that Poutine failed and dictators cannot afford even a single failure.


You share a common view with this Kremlin propagandist on Russian state TV. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508576857767088130


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508941060155875336


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508891789134118921

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508786007138873351

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508731291340099588


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## WotTen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> So a country with the largest reserves of oil, gas, gold, Tin, Titanium, other minerals, and food self sufficient will not have enough money? Give me a break. Let us see in 2 decades, and see where the Rubble is and where the Dollar is. By disconnecting the Rubble from the US dollar to Gold, Russia under Putin has started the process of rendering the fiat money useless.



It's not just about money. In this day and age, even a toaster has a chip in it.

AFAIK, Russia does not have a cutting edge semiconductor industry. The only place it can get chips that are even remotely useful is China.


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## mmr

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> So a country with the largest reserves of oil, gas, gold, Tin, Titanium, other minerals, and food self sufficient will not have enough money? Give me a break. Let us see in 2 decades, and see where the Rubble is and where the Dollar is. By disconnecting the Rubble from the US dollar to Gold, Russia under Putin has started the process of rendering the fiat money useless.


Lol dude no one cares what russia does or does not. At the end its smaller then Canada's economy. 

And u think they can take down us dollar. Good luck!


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508867324467720197

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508913898401013760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508914416632442880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508833632944799755

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508886974345666563


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## gambit

When this Russia-Ukraine war is over, the world's militaries will face only one source of their defense: the US. And not everyone will be in our favor. Russia's economy will be depressed for some yrs and that mean no or at best little progress for defense investments. For all those countries that relied on Russia for their defense hardware, as the jets and the tanks get worn down and parts get less and less available, their national defense will get weaker. China's defense industry is not par to the US, no matter how much China's MIC may tout its products, but countries that relied on Russia will have no choice but to buy Chinese, and they *WILL* get inferior products.

The result? Do not pissed US off because your military will be even less able to take on US now, not that your Russian hardware were as capable in the first place. The USAF is considering retiring a couple squadrons of F-22 to make budget and basing for the coming 6th gen fighter. Our airspace is anywhere we feel like it.

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## 8888888888888

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508749280659623946
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508762430570217477


More like the current government is trying to deflect blame away from their blunder, without Russian gas the Germany Economy would never be so good. New government will now use the old government as a scapegoat when the German economy goes down.


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## jhungary

mmr said:


> US troops in Poland are training Ukrainians on how to use weapons sent by the West | CNN Politics
> 
> 
> US troops in Poland have been providing Ukrainians with some instruction on how to use the weapons the West has been shipping into Ukraine, sources familiar with the matter tell CNN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US troops in Poland are training Ukrainians on how to use weapons sent by the West​


I remember I said this about 2 weeks ago and some Chinese member reply to me and said

"I don't see armed Ukrainian men coming and going from Poland Border......."

LOL

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## mmr

jhungary said:


> I remember I said this about 2 weeks ago and some Chinese member reply to me and said
> 
> "I don't see armed Ukrainian men coming and going from Poland Border......."
> 
> LOL


Ha ha what an argument. 

I admire ur replies though. Its like u have to explain these video game players from mommy's basement every thing. Kudos to u.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508844744532758542

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508873899085377540

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508824817847394308

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## 8888888888888

Apollon said:


> Europe will unfreeze when all troops leave Ukraine including Crimea.
> 
> Right now its chicken game. We know putin blows on his last legs.


Not going to happen


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508842610571554818

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508824196465541121

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## jhungary

mmr said:


> Ha ha what an argument.
> 
> I admire ur replies though. Its like u have to explain these video game players from mommy's basement every thing. Kudos to u.


Well, if I remember correctly, it's the same guy who said the center of gravity is not Kyiv.....

Anyway, I didn't do it for him tho, I am posting because people who genuinely interested on those stuff.

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## F-22Raptor

gambit said:


> When this Russia-Ukraine war is over, the world's militaries will face only one source of their defense: the US. And not everyone will be in our favor. Russia's economy will be depressed for some yrs and that mean no or at best little progress for defense investments. For all those countries that relied on Russia for their defense hardware, as the jets and the tanks get worn down and parts get less and less available, their national defense will get weaker. China's defense industry is not par to the US, no matter how much China's MIC may tout its products, but countries that relied on Russia will have no choice but to buy Chinese, and they *WILL* get inferior products.
> 
> The result? Do not pissed US off because your military will be even less able to take on US now, not that your Russian hardware were as capable in the first place. The USAF is considering retiring a couple squadrons of F-22 to make budget and basing for the coming 6th gen fighter. Our airspace is anywhere we feel like it.




The USAF has already flown a 6th Gen prototype fighter in……2020. And 6 B-21 bombers are already in production, with the 1st in ground testing. First B-21 should go public in the coming months. 

The US is waaaay ahead.


----------



## 8888888888888

gambit said:


> Ukraine will not join NATO? Big fekking deal, we say. We do not need Ukraine to be in NATO for Ukraine to be in NATO. Get it?
> 
> There are two forms of membership: official and notional. Or explicit and implicit.
> 
> Official membership is when you wears the club clothing and have special access to the clubhouse. Notional membership is when even though your name is not in the club roster, you hang with the club members and they like you enough to sometimes invite you inside the clubhouse. Notional membership is when everyone shares common ideas, at least at the philosophical and/or moral levels, like how JPN, SKR, Taiwan, and Singapore are notionally in the conceptual 'The West' group even though they are geographically in Asia.
> 
> When this war is over and whatever leftover form is Ukraine, everyone, including Russia, will know that Ukraine is a NATO member. Officially or not.


So Russia can still invade in the future.



F-22Raptor said:


> The USAF has already flown a 6th Gen prototype fighter in……2020. And 6 B-21 bombers are already in production, with the 1st in ground testing. First B-21 should go public in the coming months.
> 
> The US is waaaay ahead.


So is the H20


----------



## Bleek

gambit said:


> When this Russia-Ukraine war is over, the world's militaries will face only one source of their defense: the US. And not everyone will be in our favor. Russia's economy will be depressed for some yrs and that mean no or at best little progress for defense investments. For all those countries that relied on Russia for their defense hardware, as the jets and the tanks get worn down and parts get less and less available, their national defense will get weaker. China's defense industry is not par to the US, no matter how much China's MIC may tout its products, but countries that relied on Russia will have no choice but to buy Chinese, and they *WILL* get inferior products.
> 
> The result? Do not pissed US off because your military will be even less able to take on US now, not that your Russian hardware were as capable in the first place. The USAF is considering retiring a couple squadrons of F-22 to make budget and basing for the coming 6th gen fighter. Our airspace is anywhere we feel like it.


Chinese aircraft inferior to Russian aircraft?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508859288030220296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508839474091941890

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504389902305267716


----------



## K_Bin_W

Bleek said:


> Chinese aircraft inferior to Russian aircraft?


No it's not except in the minds of goras.

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## SuvarnaTeja

gambit said:


> When this Russia-Ukraine war is over, the world's militaries will face only one source of their defense: the US. And not everyone will be in our favor. Russia's economy will be depressed for some yrs and that mean no or at best little progress for defense investments. For all those countries that relied on Russia for their defense hardware, as the jets and the tanks get worn down and parts get less and less available, their national defense will get weaker. China's defense industry is not par to the US, no matter how much China's MIC may tout its products, but countries that relied on Russia will have no choice but to buy Chinese, and they *WILL* get inferior products.
> 
> The result? Do not pissed US off because your military will be even less able to take on US now, not that your Russian hardware were as capable in the first place. The USAF is considering retiring a couple squadrons of F-22 to make budget and basing for the coming 6th gen fighter. Our airspace is anywhere we feel like it.



Poor French. They always get dumped again and again.

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## thetutle

Clutch said:


> Elon Musk showing his South African Nazi Apartheid roots ..... All Afrikaans and South Africans invaders have a racist streak...


His roots are Canadian. He's grandparents moved to South Africa from Canada. And they were not Afrikaans, but English. 

South Africa is not nazi they declared war on nazi Germany in 1939.


----------



## jhungary

Type59 said:


> What about east, UA forces are effectively isolated, soo both sides have received heavy blows. With Russian air dominance in Donbass, its gonna be costly for UA too reinforce them positions.
> 
> It's better to admit failure and redeploy.
> 
> It would suit Russians, if UA went on the offensive because them man portable anti air and armour are less effective.


It's harder to redeploy Russian force than redeploy Ukrainian force. 

Because to redeploy Russian force in theatre, you will need to pull them out of their original AO, then ship them to the next AO and then move into position. On the other hand, Ukrainian force would just simply go from A to B. 

The problem is, if Russia is really doing this (Which I doubt they are) they would leave behind any or all permanent infrastructure and then they have to insert more troop to pull out the original troop, otherwise that would turn into a rout. 

On the other hand, Air Superiority is not really the matter in Donbas because Russia still do not have total ai superiority. Also the Ukrainian position in Donbas is entrenched, which mean it will take a lot of Russian attacker (5 : 1) to overwhelm the Ukrainian Defender. That is probably the reason the Donbas frontline hardly moved at all in the last 34 days of fighting.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

WotTen said:


> It's not just about money. In this day and age, even a toaster has a chip in it.
> 
> AFAIK, Russia does not have a cutting edge semiconductor industry. The only place it can get chips that are even remotely useful is China.




Those state of the art fighter jets and tanks they build definitely need semiconductors. Their economy is very insulated, meaning they make and build most of what they need internally. I am not buying the argument that Russia doesn't have semiconductor industry.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## SuvarnaTeja

gambit said:


> When this Russia-Ukraine war is over, the world's militaries will face only one source of their defense: the US. And not everyone will be in our favor. Russia's economy will be depressed for some yrs and that mean no or at best little progress for defense investments. For all those countries that relied on Russia for their defense hardware, as the jets and the tanks get worn down and parts get less and less available, their national defense will get weaker. China's defense industry is not par to the US, no matter how much China's MIC may tout its products, but countries that relied on Russia will have no choice but to buy Chinese, and they *WILL* get inferior products.
> 
> The result? Do not pissed US off because your military will be even less able to take on US now, not that your Russian hardware were as capable in the first place. The USAF is considering retiring a couple squadrons of F-22 to make budget and basing for the coming 6th gen fighter. Our airspace is anywhere we feel like it.





F-22Raptor said:


> The USAF has already flown a 6th Gen prototype fighter in……2020. And 6 B-21 bombers are already in production, with the 1st in ground testing. First B-21 should go public in the coming months.
> 
> The US is waaaay ahead.




The question that people need to ask is why do countries need weapons if Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, ISIS etc. are all decimated by the US & NATO?

For this very reason US will never kill these entities as they are the reason why countries buy weapons from the US and NATO.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508459829446299648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508450127131951111


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## SuvarnaTeja

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Those state of the art fighter jets and tanks they build definitely need semiconductors. Their economy is very insulated, meaning they make and build most of what they need internally. I am not buying the argument that Russia doesn't have semiconductor industry.



There are only three countries that can manufacture IC chips. US, Taiwan and South Korea.

This is the reason why Chinese Huawei is having problems since US banned them.


----------



## jhungary

Clutch said:


> If that is actually factual (I suspect the accuracy of information from all sources) ... Then this is a huge strategic win for Ukraine. Surprising how close Kiev is to the border of Belarus... If they are able to keep Kiev and establish an effective Eastern front... They may even make it to Donbas and then the whole war reaches a stalemate situation. A win for Ukrain. Decisive loss for Russia perhaps crippling it for decades before it could ever conduct a war beyond its borders gain.
> 
> Russia may alternatively try and push from the East and South... A longer route to Kiev.


They can't really take a longer route to Kyiv, supply and air support would become an issue. Bear in mind, the Russian had already tried to egress from North thru Chernobyl, then again North thru Chernihiv, and then East thru Sumy, had they not done any of the 2, they probably would have enough supply to go from South or thru Donbas if they did a mad dash. 

The problem is Russia hold the MSR, not the land, which is why their supply line is constantly getting attacked. And unless this is solved (Which is unlikely, due to a combination of factors such as troop strength, air interdiction and further support) Kyiv is out of reach of Russia. 

Russia can try but this will probably at this point be a liability to the entire campaign, if the Russian is smart, they would try to tactically withdraw from Kyiv and use the force elsewhere where they have a chance.

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Well, 30 some days in, why would you still using tank going into the street single like that?
> 
> And for those of you who say this NLAW did not detonate, you can see the flame coming out from Under the Turret and also on top, which mean it punch thru from the top and lighting the tank on fire inside the turret, so fire comes out on any hole it made. (And also it will not be on fire if it had not detonated)
> 
> I would not want to be that tank crew right now...........


Are you serious? you think the tank is destroyed and the NLAW detonated? For the projectile to pierce the armour, there needs to be a massive explosion unless its a sabot type of round or a kinetic penetrator. 

There was no massive explosion nor was there a kinetic penetrator fired. NLAW is not a kinetic penetrator. You were in combat and you fired these things, and you think this tank is destroyed? really?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jhungary

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508835134270631941


The problem is, the state that sanctioned Russia represent about 70% of world economic activities.......

I mean, it wouldn't really matter if Maldives or Fiji sanctioning Russia........


----------



## WotTen

SuvarnaTeja said:


> There are only three countries that can manufacture IC chips. US, Taiwan and South Korea.
> 
> This is the reason why Chinese Huawei is having problems since US banned them.



I think China also makes chips, just not at the cutting edge. Same as SK.
Only TSMC makes the absolute cutting edge.
(I think, not 100% sure).

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## SuvarnaTeja

WotTen said:


> I think China also makes chips, just not at the cutting edge. Same as SK.
> Only TSMC makes the absolute cutting edge.
> (I think, not 100% sure).



Only three countries/companies manufacture IC chips

US - Intel
Taiwan - TSMC 
South Korea - Samsung.

Interestingly the equipment to manufacture is only made by a German company ASML


Other countries like China and Germany are trying to manufacture but are in infancy stage.


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Are you serious? you think the tank is destroyed and the NLAW detonated? For the projectile to pierce the armour, there needs to be a massive explosion unless its a sabot type of round or a kinetic penetrator.
> 
> There was no massive explosion nor was there a kinetic penetrator fired. NLAW is not a kinetic penetrator. You were in combat and you fired these things, and you think this tank is destroyed? really?


Well, as I said, if it bounced off, you will only see the flame coming out of the top, if any (I failed to see why it will lit up the tank if it bounce off)

The fact that the underneath of turret is on fire means only one thing, that the round penetrated inside the turret

look at these 2 pictures between 0:08 and 0:12 from the video











You can clearly see underneath the turret is clearly on fire (red circle at 0:12) and the fire weren't there when the round hit (Black circle at 0:08) Which mean that is not spreading from the outside, it is spreading from the inside.

Also NLAW work by HE shape charge penetrate the top side, which is the thinnest in terms of armor protection, you don't really do what we called "Hard Kill" on tank with NLAW. in fact, not that I had tried but I think it would be ineffective to use NLAW on anything other than the top of that tank.

That tank is on fire inside, the crew is probably either immobilised or killed. Depending on how much fire damage the tank suffered, I would say it would be inoperable to destroyed states after this hit. Either that or somehow the fire spread unseen from the top to the bottom of that turret.

Unless you somehow disagree with my assertation, that I would like to hear about it and further discuss it with you.

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## Apollon

8888888888888 said:


> Not going to happen



You talk like Putin is a statesmen. He is just a mafia boss. So weak he tried to save his yacht from sanctions. He will buckle like he always does.

EU made clear yesterday that nobody will pay im ruble amd sanctions wont be lifted.

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## WotTen

SuvarnaTeja said:


> Only three countries/companies manufacture IC chips
> 
> US - Intel
> Taiwan - TSMC
> South Korea - Samsung.
> 
> Interestingly the equipment to manufacture is only made by a German company ASML
> 
> 
> Other countries like China and Germany are trying to manufacture but are in infancy stage.



ASML is Dutch.

The following shows who is where in the race.









What is nm in processor? | 5nm,7nm,10nm and 14nm Processor Size


What is nm in the processor? | 3nm,5nm,7nm,10nm, and 14nm Processor Size



ourtechroom.com

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## FairAndUnbiased

Bleek said:


> Chinese aircraft inferior to Russian aircraft?


out of respect for Russians, we stay silent when they brag, but just know this: China has millions of civilian phased array antennas in operation for 5G, has one of the few hypersonic wind tunnels in the world, and has exascale supercomputers. All the ingredients are there. And the finished product is there in airshow after airshow, and being flown every day.

But, somehow people think that Chinese can't put all the ingredients together in new products. Shrug. Not on me to prove anything. there's a reason why they're mere spectators in history, not actors.

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## The SC

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Those state of the art fighter jets and tanks they build definitely need semiconductors. Their economy is very insulated, meaning they make and build most of what they need internally. I am not buying the argument that Russia doesn't have semiconductor industry.


https://beststartup.asia/15-top-russian-semiconductor-companies-and-startups/


----------



## DF41

mmr said:


> Top US general in Europe says there 'could be' an intelligence gap in US that caused US to overestimate Russia's capabilities​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Top US general in Europe says there 'could be' an intelligence gap in US that caused US to overestimate Russia's capabilities
> 
> 
> The top US general in Europe said Tuesday there "could be" a gap in US intelligence gathering that caused the US to overestimate Russia's capability and underestimate Ukraine's defensive abilities before Russia attacked Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com






What a joke! 
If anything, it is the USA that overestimate their own capablity and importance in the world. USA too full of themselves and spreading terror and deaths all over the world together with their running doggies.







USA lost terribly in Afghanistan to a bunch of sheep herders with AKs and RPGs and riding on pickups while
USA equiped with state of art planes and helicopters and armoured cars and artillery and Ma Deuces with unlimited ammo supply and satellites in the sky.

USA lost also in Somali to another bunch of goat herders and fishermen.

Only wars USA won since WW2 were the wars USA fought so heroically against Granada and Nicaragua and Panama.

With USA military generalship so fccking bad, who are they to make any judgement?
Because Russia did not do according to what USA planned and hoped for? 

And this what Russia doing


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508813631311466496

Or how Russia winning.

Understand Russia started its “special military operation” with a severe manpower deficit—200,000 attackers to some 600,000 defenders (or more). Classic attritional conflict was never an option. Russian victory required maneuver.

And how Russia froze and lock Ukrainian forces and then slaughtered them.

In what is the equivalent of Operation Bagration, Russia deceived and flat footed the fight conducted by USA and NATO with arms supplied by them and cannon fodder supplied by Zelensky hiding behind, or in front of his green screen.

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## SuvarnaTeja

DF41 said:


> What a joke!
> If anything, it is the USA that overestimate their own capablity and importance in the world. USA too full of themselves and spreading terror and deaths all over the world together with their running doggies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USA lost terribly in Afghanistan to a bunch of sheep herders with AKs and RPGs and riding on pickups while
> USA equiped with state of art planes and helicopters and armoured cars and artillery and Ma Deuces with unlimited ammo supply and satellites in the sky.
> 
> USA lost also in Somali to another bunch of goat herders and fishermen.
> 
> Only wars USA won since WW2 were the wars USA fought so heroically against Granada and Nicaragua and Panama.
> 
> With USA military generalship so fccking bad, who are they to make any judgement?
> Because Russia did not do according to what USA planned and hoped for?
> 
> And this what Russia doing
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508813631311466496
> 
> Or how Russia winning.
> 
> Understand Russia started its “special military operation” with a severe manpower deficit—200,000 attackers to some 600,000 defenders (or more). Classic attritional conflict was never an option. Russian victory required maneuver.
> 
> And how Russia froze and lock Ukrainian forces and then slaughtered them.
> 
> In what is the equivalent of Operation Bagration, Russia deceived and flat footed the fight conducted by USA and NATO with arms supplied by them and cannon fodder supplied by Zelensky hiding behind, or in front of his green screen.




What people do not understand is US does not get into wars to win.

US gets into wars to make money.

Hence the more prolonged the war is, it is better for the US Military-Industrial complex.

The outcome of the war is not important. The duration of the war and amount of money made out of that War is what matters.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508576857767088130


----------



## Type59

jhungary said:


> It's harder to redeploy Russian force than redeploy Ukrainian force.
> 
> Because to redeploy Russian force in theatre, you will need to pull them out of their original AO, then ship them to the next AO and then move into position. On the other hand, Ukrainian force would just simply go from A to B.
> 
> The problem is, if Russia is really doing this (Which I doubt they are) they would leave behind any or all permanent infrastructure and then they have to insert more troop to pull out the original troop, otherwise that would turn into a rout.
> 
> On the other hand, Air Superiority is not really the matter in Donbas because Russia still do not have total ai superiority. Also the Ukrainian position in Donbas is entrenched, which mean it will take a lot of Russian attacker (5 : 1) to overwhelm the Ukrainian Defender. That is probably the reason the Donbas frontline hardly moved at all in the last 34 days of fighting.



They do have air superiority over Donbass region. I have seen Russian self propelled guns dug in the same position for days. This shows no fear of counter battery fire from UA artillery or air attack around Pospana. Time is on Russian side in this theatre, remote chance of resupply.



On redeployment point, Russia could be redeploying troops to East or just further north. It would be risky to move UA forces to East and weaken defenses around capital.


----------



## Clutch

thetutle said:


> His roots are Canadian. He's grandparents moved to South Africa from Canada. And they were not Afrikaans, but English.
> 
> South Africa is not nazi they declared war on nazi Germany in 1939.



Apartheid... They supported the Allies during WWII because of allegiance to Britain..

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## jhungary

Type59 said:


> They do have air superiority over Donbass region. I have seen Russian self propelled guns dug in the same position for days. This shows no fear of counter battery fire from UA artillery or air attack around Pospana. Time is on Russian side in this theatre, remote chance of resupply.
> 
> 
> 
> On redeployment point, Russia could be redeploying troops to East or just further north. It would be risky to move UA forces to East and weaken defenses around capital.


Well, bear in mind, the west and US is supplying Ukrainian with asset, and you are talking about a draw down on the Northern front, which will eventually release some Anti-Air asset for Ukraine to deal with threat freely. 

Time is not on Russian side actually, because you need time and money to prepare for war, and everyday this war is ongoing, it is bleeding out Russia economy, this war is not cheap, you can see the equipment loss on both side, on the other hand, US and the West is supplying Ukrainian, which mean it cost the Ukrainian nothing. But everything Russia lost they will need to pay for it. 

Not to mention the further the war drag on, the more Ukrainian can be mobilised, sources already said they have had enough trained TDF member for the first stage, which is 200,000, that is on top of whatever Ukrainian regular troop that still able to deployed. Hence you are seeing Ukrainian starting a pushback. Russia on the other hand have to be able to gather those troop and then ship them to Ukraine if they have any sort of mobilisation. And that would depends on how much troop they can transport to battle, judging from the build up, it took Russia 3 months to get everyone in place....So that advantage are going to be on the Ukrainian as well.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508923185072332802


----------



## mmr

DF41 said:


> What a joke!
> If anything, it is the USA that overestimate their own capablity and importance in the world. USA too full of themselves and spreading terror and deaths all over the world together with their running doggies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USA lost terribly in Afghanistan to a bunch of sheep herders with AKs and RPGs and riding on pickups while
> USA equiped with state of art planes and helicopters and armoured cars and artillery and Ma Deuces with unlimited ammo supply and satellites in the sky.
> 
> USA lost also in Somali to another bunch of goat herders and fishermen.
> 
> Only wars USA won since WW2 were the wars USA fought so heroically against Granada and Nicaragua and Panama.
> 
> With USA military generalship so fccking bad, who are they to make any judgement?
> Because Russia did not do according to what USA planned and hoped for?
> 
> And this what Russia doing
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508813631311466496
> 
> Or how Russia winning.
> 
> Understand Russia started its “special military operation” with a severe manpower deficit—200,000 attackers to some 600,000 defenders (or more). Classic attritional conflict was never an option. Russian victory required maneuver.
> 
> And how Russia froze and lock Ukrainian forces and then slaughtered them.
> 
> In what is the equivalent of Operation Bagration, Russia deceived and flat footed the fight conducted by USA and NATO with arms supplied by them and cannon fodder supplied by Zelensky hiding behind, or in front of his green screen.


The decision was taken by us military professionals. If they ever disclose why they decided to downgrade threat from Russia we can discuss further if its right or wrong decision.

I suspect usa want to focus on china and will work with eu uk canada Australian and japan etc for freedom of navigation on south china sea...indo pacific...taiwan etc.


----------



## Paul2

Wood said:


> Many analysts believe that Russia has culminated. As weather improves, Russia may make another attempt to take Kiev. If this is not possible or successful, then Putin has to declare that the territorial gains in South and East of Ukraine as victory to his domestic audience. His TV pundits will attest it for him. Putin will gamble that this is enough to keep his throne.
> 
> I don't think Russia can really sustain a long war that can last for the rest of this year while reeling under Western sanctions. Accepting promises of neutrality from Ukraine will not be a matter of choice in this situation. Putin will want to believe it at that point.



Now it is Putin who wants to force a stalemate. Now I think more, and more he looks into forcing WW1 type ending. Enduring meaningless casualties to bitter end, but hoping that the enemy will have to bear more the unbearable.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508490490349436929

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508988268699811840


----------



## gambit

SuvarnaTeja said:


> What people do not understand is US does not get into wars to win.
> 
> *US gets into wars to make money.
> 
> Hence the more prolonged the war is, it is better for the US Military-Industrial complex.*
> 
> The outcome of the war is not important. The duration of the war and amount of money made out of that War is what matters.


This is not a good argument.

MICs do not make money from wars but from peace because wars do not last, but peace do. In peacetime, you still need to operate your military at least at %90 of wartime tempo if you want to create a sufficient deterrence. In this, you will shoot plenty of ammo, burn a lot of fuel, run a lot of trucks, and so on. So at %90 tempo, you will wear out your soldiers and equipment. You will need to recruit new soldiers, sailors, and airmen, and you will need to replace equipment as they eventually fail.

In a war, MICs have limited capability to replenish what is spent in combat. The more complex the weapon system, the more time it will take to rebuild what was lost in combat. In other words, it is faster to build ammo than jet fighters or ships. So in peacetime, you buy as much as you can afford, including reserves. Then in war, you fight the best you can and if you lose equipment faster than your MIC can rebuild, you will lose the war.


----------



## FuturePAF

WotTen said:


> It would be interesting to compare the total GDP of countries opposing Russia v/s those which are neutral or supporting Russia.
> 
> At the end of the day, the only number that matters is the money not humans (sorry). In fact human without money is a liability, not an asset.
> 
> 
> 
> A more likely outcome is that research facilities and personnel move to China with an understanding that results will be shared by both countries.


Agreed; Especially in the highest tech areas. Submarine technology (such as the Yasen-M and Borei classes), sub-systems for strategic missile forces technologies like decoys and ABM interceptors like the S-500, parts of stealth fighters such as engines, EW, and the human experience.

Thousands of Russian veteran officers could get jobs training with Chinese troops. Sort of like green berets putting their Chinese counter parts through ever more realistic exercises across the full spectrum of warfare. It’s a lot safer then being deployed into the Wagner group or in under maintained equipment like in the 90s. Post hostilities in Ukraine, China could help Russia rebuild its military for the Tech transfers and sharing of human expertise. It would save both countries time to rebuild and catch up and stay some what apace with the west. 

Russia will be on par with the British or French military at best after this war. If it weren’t for Russia’s security council seat and its massive strategic arsenal it wouldn’t even in the same league as France and the UK.

The hype has been busted. I guess the Risky move was Russia’s not Ukraine’.


----------



## SuvarnaTeja

gambit said:


> This is not a good argument.
> 
> MICs do not make money from wars but from peace because wars do not last, but peace do. In peacetime, you still need to operate your military at least at %90 of wartime tempo if you want to create a sufficient deterrence. In this, you will shoot plenty of ammo, burn a lot of fuel, run a lot of trucks, and so on. So at %90 tempo, you will wear out your soldiers and equipment. You will need to recruit new soldiers, sailors, and airmen, and you will need to replace equipment as they eventually fail.
> 
> In a war, MICs have limited capability to replenish what is spent in combat. The more complex the weapon system, the more time it will take to rebuild what was lost in combat. In other words, it is faster to build ammo than jet fighters or ships. So in peacetime, you buy as much as you can afford, including reserves. Then in war, you fight the best you can and if you lose equipment faster than your MIC can rebuild, you will lose the war.



You can buy new equipment only if you lose them in the war.

You cannot keep increasing the equipment without losing them as someone would question the need to keep building.

How many fighters and choppers can you crash in peace time vs during war time.

Obviously war provides greater opportunity.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508490645538807812


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508701324019384324


----------



## Wood

Interesting video. Makes the observation that all Russian drones captured by Ukraine are made of consumer grade electronics from US, Japan and China.

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## Type59

jhungary said:


> Well, bear in mind, the west and US is supplying Ukrainian with asset, and you are talking about a draw down on the Northern front, which will eventually release some Anti-Air asset for Ukraine to deal with threat freely.
> 
> Time is not on Russian side actually, because you need time and money to prepare for war, and everyday this war is ongoing, it is bleeding out Russia economy, this war is not cheap, you can see the equipment loss on both side, on the other hand, US and the West is supplying Ukrainian, which mean it cost the Ukrainian nothing. But everything Russia lost they will need to pay for it.
> 
> Not to mention the further the war drag on, the more Ukrainian can be mobilised, sources already said they have had enough trained TDF member for the first stage, which is 200,000, that is on top of whatever Ukrainian regular troop that still able to deployed. Hence you are seeing Ukrainian starting a pushback. Russia on the other hand have to be able to gather those troop and then ship them to Ukraine if they have any sort of mobilisation. And that would depends on how much troop they can transport to battle, judging from the build up, it took Russia 3 months to get everyone in place....So that advantage are going to be on the Ukrainian as well.



I don't want to get too deep into discussion because situation is Fluid. When it comes to war, accurate information is hard to find. Were relying on open source information, which most likely is wrong.

I suspect in next few months both sides will want a ceasefire. When guns fall silent, both sides will prepare for next conflict. This current conflict, I don't see UA getting Donbass and Crimea back and similarly Rus forces won't be able to take well defended cities in North, Central and Eastern Ukraine.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508929512993656836

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## gambit

SuvarnaTeja said:


> You can buy new equipment only if you lose them in the war.
> 
> You cannot keep increasing the equipment without losing them as someone would question the need to keep building.
> 
> How many fighters and choppers can you crash in peace time vs during war time.
> 
> Obviously war provides greater opportunity.


You can buy new equipment to replace what inevitably will fail from usage, and upgrade as technology improves. If you lose the war, the MICs die. So in the end, MICs make money in peacetime, not war.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508958306186022915


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509025831376592897


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Well, as I said, if it bounced off, you will only see the flame coming out of the top


it looks like it disintegrated. and the residual fire of what was left of the missile continued to burn. 


jhungary said:


> Also NLAW work by HE shape charge penetrate the top side,


the problem is that there was no high explosive to propel the shaped charge. so the only way to penetrate the armour is a sabot, which the NLAW is not.


----------



## Viet

letsrock said:


> Hasan is right and you are wrong. It is you who is not understanding the situation correctly. What do you mean Gazprom "gives" money to Putin gov? is he going to give cash personally to Putin by hand? it has to go Russian central bank


If Germany pays in euros the money remains in the book of the European Central Bank. Gazprom or Putin himself can withdraw the euros to pay for imports. It’s you that doesn’t understand. Putin wants unfriendly companies to pay in rubles so the money can be created or printed by Russia central bank. He wants to print money. That’s it.


----------



## kingQamaR

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> So a country with the largest reserves of oil, gas, gold, Tin, Titanium, other minerals, and food self sufficient will not have enough money? Give me a break. Let us see in 2 decades, and see where the Rubble is and where the Dollar is. By disconnecting the Rubble from the US dollar to Gold, Russia under Putin has started the process of rendering the fiat money useless.



The sanctions have no time limit. Biden was misquoted. What he said was that the sanctions i.e more sanctions, would be imposed over the next year. Not all at once. This makes the bite harder as they don't know what additional sanctions are coming down the line.


----------



## Apollon

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508490490349436929
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508988268699811840



1. Its not sanctions, its special economic operation.

2. Sanctions are never illegal. Evryone decides himself who he trades with


----------



## kingQamaR

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> How Russia was setback in decades when no single bomb fell on Russia? According to Putin, US and Western sanctions is something they learned to live with. Guys, look at the facts, and not mere slogans. Russians knew what is ahead of them when they entered this conflict. When they established the SFPS financial system and moved most of their funds from the West, they were preparing for this.
> 
> Besides, do you realize the significance of having a land corridor from Russia to Crimea? That is a gain and not a lost.



It's achieved its targets? Thousands of dead Ukranian women children and grandparents, thousands of brave Ukranian men dead, hundreds of thousands of Ukranian homes and businesses destroyed, the Ukranian economy obliterated, tens of thousands of young Russian conscripts dead or wounded, the Russian economy plummeting, Russia turned into a pariah state for decades to come, and a worldwide food and fuel crisis. Well done indeed

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## thetutle

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508564718721675269


we call that fishing for information. wouldn't russia like to know this,


----------



## Apollon

Btw regarding treatment of russian pow...

According to Putin this is no war. Its Special military operation. The word war is even banned in Russia.

This makes the russian military staff plain and simple terrorists and no convention protects them.

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## sammuel

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509025831376592897



I take it Chechens did bring motorbikes with them , so this person simply stole the bike and took it for a joyride.

Disgraceful
.


----------



## kingQamaR

Whole Russian army are looters and rapists they are known for this

Like Indian army in occupied Kashmir oppression on the Kashmiris

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## khansaheeb

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508576857767088130


Who is this guy kidding? Even in defeat he is claiming victory, what a fool. Millions of Ukrainians are refugees, Ukraine destroyed, Russians running rampant around the country, they have air domination and an army ready to choose the next target. They have ability to do a Dresden type blitz of Kyiv and many more bigger systems other than nukes to play with. It was never going to be a walk in the park for the Russians, in war there never is. Ukraine is a relatively large and well armed country with a large armament industry and Soviet and Russian trained army. It is surprising how quickly the Russians put the Ukrainians on the defensive and how quickly they achieved their military objectives. What is most likely frightening the Russian generals is the memory of Afghanistan and the long war of attrition they suffered from a Western supported insurgency. With spring and Summer approaching the Ukrainians could well rout the Russian forces if they have adequate supply line of Advance munitions from the West. Russians will then learn like NATO in Iraq and Afghanistan that is is relatively easy to get forces in and hard to get them out.


----------



## northeast

kingQamaR said:


> It's achieved its targets? Thousands of dead Ukranian women children and grandparents, thousands of brave Ukranian men dead, hundreds of thousands of Ukranian homes and businesses destroyed, the Ukranian economy obliterated, tens of thousands of young Russian conscripts dead or wounded, the Russian economy plummeting, Russia turned into a pariah state for decades to come, and a worldwide food and fuel crisis. Well done indeed


LOL,What pariah state? Since when the west is so obsessive about a group of indian? Russia have natural resource and china,india have huge needs,no western countries are needed for this trade. They will never become a "pariah state“ as western wish hard it to be.
If russia is so evil then US and your country UK is at least ten times more evil, US participate in 80% of wars happened after WWII and killed millions of civillians.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> it looks like it disintegrated. and the residual fire of what was left of the missile continued to burn.
> 
> the problem is that there was no high explosive to propel the shaped charge. so the only way to penetrate the armour is a sabot, which the NLAW is not.


Don't think there are anything to burn on a NLAW Projectile, it is not a rocket, it don't have fuel, it have an explosive warhead, it certainly would not catch fire when it bounce off.

Also, it does not explain why the burning is on the bottom of the turret. As I said, as weird as it was sounded, even if it did catch fire for some reason, the fire is does not exist on the outside, which only lead to one logical conclusion. That is the fire is happening on the inside.

Also if you have enough shape charge HE on that warhead, it can punch thru the top Armor of any tank, as it is around 10-20 mm RHA, and NLAW is designed to to an Armor piecing weapon, well, at least it was advertised as so.











So yes, in my opinion, the warhead punched thru the turret and exploded on the inside, and it start a fire in the crew compartment. I have seen enough AT missile hit a tank to come with this conclusion.

@thetutle Just realised I posted the wrong Youtube clip, I have edited to the correct one.

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## jamahir

northeast said:


> LOL,What pariah state? Since when the west is so obsessive about a group of indian? Russia have natural resource and china,india have huge needs,no western countries are needed for this trade. They will never become a "pariah state“ as western wish hard it to be.
> If russia is so evil then US and your country UK is at least ten times more evil, US participate in 80% of wars happened after WWII and killed millions of civillians.



@kingQamaR, answer to that.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> They can't really take a longer route to Kyiv, supply and air support would become an issue. Bear in mind, the Russian had already tried to egress from North thru Chernobyl, then again North thru Chernihiv, and then East thru Sumy, had they not done any of the 2, they probably would have enough supply to go from South or thru Donbas if they did a mad dash.
> 
> The problem is Russia hold the MSR, not the land, which is why their supply line is constantly getting attacked. And unless this is solved (Which is unlikely, due to a combination of factors such as troop strength, air interdiction and further support) Kyiv is out of reach of Russia.
> 
> Russia can try but this will probably at this point be a liability to the entire campaign, if the Russian is smart, they would try to tactically withdraw from Kyiv and use the force elsewhere where they have a chance.


I believe Izium would be the decisive battle to try to take control of the Donbas region on both sides while Russia is keeping some forces in the Northeast and West of Kiev to keep Ukrainian forces there busy. The Ukrainians will need to surround them and destroy or capture them quickly before they dig in around Kiev. Need those loitering munitions to help make a decisive blow. Also perfect opportunity to see how the loitering munitions perform against a near peer adversary and what lessons need to be learn like new tactics or improvements like better range, make it more stealthy, bigger warhead or more jam resistant, etc. Its no coincidence that Ukraine hit that arms depot in Belgorod since that's the supply point for any assault around in or near Izium.

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## patero

Wood said:


> Interesting video. Makes the observation that all Russian drones captured by Ukraine are made of consumer grade electronics from US, Japan and China.


Just on the topic


jhungary said:


> Don't think there are anything to burn on a NLAW Projectile, it is not a rocket, it don't have fuel, it have an explosive warhead, it certainly would not catch fire when it bounce off.
> 
> Also, it does not explain why the burning is on the bottom of the turret. As I said, as weird as it was sounded, even if it did catch fire for some reason, the fire is does not exist on the outside, which only lead to one logical conclusion. That is the fire is happening on the inside.
> 
> Also if you have enough shape charge HE on that warhead, it can punch thru the top Armor of any tank, as it is around 10-20 mm RHA, and NLAW is designed to to an Armor piecing weapon, well, at least it was advertised as so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So yes, in my opinion, the warhead punched thru the turret and exploded on the inside, and it start a fire in the crew compartment. I have seen enough AT missile hit a tank to come with this conclusion.


Just out of interest, how would an Abrams or a Challenger fare against the same type of attack?


----------



## Oldman1

patero said:


> Just on the topic
> 
> Just out of interest, how would an Abrams or a Challenger fare against the same type of attack?


If you hit the top part, it will punch through.



kingQamaR said:


> It's achieved its targets? Thousands of dead Ukranian women children and grandparents, thousands of brave Ukranian men dead, hundreds of thousands of Ukranian homes and businesses destroyed, the Ukranian economy obliterated, tens of thousands of young Russian conscripts dead or wounded, the Russian economy plummeting, Russia turned into a pariah state for decades to come, and a worldwide food and fuel crisis. Well done indeed


Not to mention complete lost of any trust or relationship between Ukraine and Russia for many years or even decades to come.



kingQamaR said:


> Ukraine doesn't need donbass, but that doesn't mean it should be handed over to Putin either. If they want to be independent within Ukraine, that is an option. After a referendum that is overseen by the UN of course. But it should never be handed over.


Putin is the type to manipulate the referendum by replacing the population with his own. Make it look like they want to be part of Russia. Just like recognizing Donbas and Luhansk as independent countries and later on take them in.

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## Oldman1

Type59 said:


> What about east, UA forces are effectively isolated, soo both sides have received heavy blows. With Russian air dominance in Donbass, its gonna be costly for UA too reinforce them positions.
> 
> It's better to admit failure and redeploy.
> 
> It would suit Russians, if UA went on the offensive because them man portable anti air and armour are less effective.


The Ukrainian forces are not isolated except Mariupol. There are tens of thousands of troops in the east still holding back against the Russian forces which hasn't moved much if you looked at the map. If the Russians try to advanced, they will just get killed from thousands of anti tank missiles and mines and IEDs and whatever else they have there.


----------



## sammuel

patero said:


> Just on the topic
> 
> Just out of interest, how would an Abrams or a Challenger fare against the same type of attack?





Oldman1 said:


> If you hit the top part, it will punch through.



Not if they have the Trophy system installed.









Final Trophy Active Protection Systems Delivered for U.S. Army’s Abrams Tanks


Leonardo and Rafael announced today that they have completed the delivery of Trophy Active Protection Systems (APS) ordered by the U.S. Army for installation on Abrams main battle tanks. Under contracts awarded on an urgent need basis by the Army’s Program Executive Office for Ground Combat...




www.defenseworld.net







https://www.rafael.co.il/press/rafaels-trophy-active-protection-system-selected-for-integration-on-the-uks-challenger-3-main-battle-tank/

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## gambit

northeast said:


> LOL,What pariah state? Since when the west is so obsessive about a group of indian? Russia have natural resource and china,india have huge needs,no western countries are needed for this trade. They will never become a "pariah state“ as western wish hard it to be.
> * If russia is so evil then US and your country UK is at least ten times more evil, US participate in 80% of wars happened after WWII and killed millions of civillians.*


But that is not how the perception of evil works. Currently, the US is not perceived as evil, whereas Russia and your China are so perceived.


----------



## northeast

gambit said:


> But that is not how the perception of evil works. Currently, the US is not perceived as evil, whereas Russia and your China are so perceived.


Perceived by you westerners. I get that and I don't think chineses and russians care about that,we are rather happy about that. To be Perceived as evil by our enemy is more like a praise.


----------



## DF41

test


Oldman1 said:


> If you hit the top part, it will punch through.
> 
> 
> Not to mention complete lost of any trust or relationship between Ukraine and Russia for many years or even decades to come.
> 
> 
> Putin is the type to manipulate the referendum by replacing the population with his own. Make it look like they want to be part of Russia. Just like recognizing Donbas and Luhansk as independent countries and later on take them in.


With the kind of wisdom you displaying, I know exactly where to put you to.

Better for me to enjoy my coffee and coffee cup and smell roses and watching birds and butterflies.

Much more wholesome then reading what flowed from your fingers


----------



## Apollon

northeast said:


> LOL,What pariah state? Since when the west is so obsessive about a group of indian? Russia have natural resource and china,india have huge needs,no western countries are needed for this trade. They will never become a "pariah state“ as western wish hard it to be.
> If russia is so evil then US and your country UK is at least ten times more evil, US participate in 80% of wars happened after WWII and killed millions of civillians.



Russia is a pariah state. Cant even travel anymore and are kicked out in evry civilized nation.

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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508903667436564483


Spoiler





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508904258074292238












Krasnopol (weapon system) - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org

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## Apollon

SITA has kicked out aeroflot 









Aeroflot und Co. müssen Flugrouten ohne Hilfe berechnen - aeroTELEGRAPH


Das wichtigste Informatikunternehmen der Luftfahrtbranche hat russische Fluggesellschaften ausgeschlossen. Der Rauswurf bei Sita bedeutet für Aeroflot und Co. deutlich mehr Arbeit und schlechtere Daten.




www.aerotelegraph.com





This means Aeroflot must calculate evrything regarding flightroutes ect themself.


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## kingQamaR

northeast said:


> LOL,What pariah state? Since when the west is so obsessive about a group of indian? Russia have natural resource and china,india have huge needs,no western countries are needed for this trade. They will never become a "pariah state“ as western wish hard it to be.
> If russia is so evil then US and your country UK is at least ten times more evil, US participate in 80% of wars happened after WWII and killed millions of civillians.



How's the Russian economy going Russian Trolls on here haha 

Be honest russian trolls have RT news detailed all the sanctions by the EU, USA, Swiss!!!! (Yes even the Swiss have sanctioned russian assets) and UK etc detailing the Multimillion boats, villas, cash and assets frozen by the west? Come I bet they wouldnt dare publish a full list of trillions of US dollars worth of assets!

China seen how quickly the Sanctions on Russia bit in. China has not worked so hard to be the supplier to the world, to lose everything overnight due to Sanctions on them. They need the West more than Russia. On balance, China couldn't support Russia.

India haha if india doesnt do it, cancel 1,000 visas for starters

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## jhungary

patero said:


> Just on the topic
> 
> Just out of interest, how would an Abrams or a Challenger fare against the same type of attack?


Probably the same, there are no way you can reinforce deck armor on a tank, you can try to use a cage armor but that basically will just burn thru as many case with the Russian. 

The only way you can defeat it is probably the active protection system, or be vigilante about infantry surrounding, on the other hand, it took some skill to put that NLAW on top of a tank, I mean, it's not really the easiest thing to do.


----------



## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> I believe Izium would be the decisive battle to try to take control of the Donbas region on both sides while Russia is keeping some forces in the Northeast and West of Kiev to keep Ukrainian forces there busy. The Ukrainians will need to surround them and destroy or capture them quickly before they dig in around Kiev. Need those loitering munitions to help make a decisive blow. Also perfect opportunity to see how the loitering munitions perform against a near peer adversary and what lessons need to be learn like new tactics or improvements like better range, make it more stealthy, bigger warhead or more jam resistant, etc. Its no coincidence that Ukraine hit that arms depot in Belgorod since that's the supply point for any assault around in or near Izium.


Both Izyum and Mariupol are essential for the Russian to encircle the Ukrainian troop in Donbas region. You cannot attack Donbas defence head on, Russian don't have the number there, the only way they can do is to pin the Ukrainian defender in place and hammer them with both flank, To do that, you will need troop on either side of the Ukrainian flank, which mean they need to take Izyum and Mariupol.

On the other hand, I have no idea if Russia would have enough troop after they took Mariupol. Conventional wisdom would suggest a 3 to 1 ratio to overcome Mariupol defender, the Russian dont have that number and I can probably see around 40k troop were devoted into Mariupol Operation facing off 3 Ukrainian Brigade with TDF, roughly 20k in number, which mean that 40K troop will be involved in heavy fighting and I wonder if they still have a coherent force left after they took Mariupol. 

On the other hand, Ukrainian have repel 3 incursion from Isyum already, and they counter attacked toward Sumy-Kharkiv area near the border and the entire Russia supply line to the North are now threatened, I don't see they can attack beyond Izyum, the troop repositioned from Kyiv would not be quick enough to unjam this situation. Which mean unless Russia is using their Strategic reserve (If they have any) I don't see how the Russia is able to flank both side of the Donbas defender, On top of that, the whole area have not been closed off since day 1, which mean supply and personnel are going to flow into the donbas region for the last 34 days, so the 60,000 strength in 6 Ukrainian Brigade would probably be outdated. Which mean the garrison is probably reinforced by now with regular troop or TDF. 

In short, the situation is not good for the Russian in Donbas. This is gonna be a long grind.

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## vizier

sammuel said:


> Not if they have the Trophy system installed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Final Trophy Active Protection Systems Delivered for U.S. Army’s Abrams Tanks
> 
> 
> Leonardo and Rafael announced today that they have completed the delivery of Trophy Active Protection Systems (APS) ordered by the U.S. Army for installation on Abrams main battle tanks. Under contracts awarded on an urgent need basis by the Army’s Program Executive Office for Ground Combat...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defenseworld.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.rafael.co.il/press/rafaels-trophy-active-protection-system-selected-for-integration-on-the-uks-challenger-3-main-battle-tank/



Some hard kill systems work for top attack as well but top attack has some advantages in my opinion. You can install decoys more easily than horizontal flight(ex:rpg-29 has a decoy secondary rocket) as the missile has already burned out its engine and falling down for the hit almost ballistically. Some small reflective ball decoys can be released from the missile while falling down and can confuse the aps radar. Also missiles can do deliberate random maneuvers and recorrect themselves just before hitting the target and the aps projectiles are unguided and can miss in that case.
Soft kill however would still work to a degree releasing smoke(ir-visual-chaff) above the tank and blocking the missile sensor from acquiring the target from above.


----------



## patero

jhungary said:


> Probably the same, there are no way you can reinforce deck armor on a tank, you can try to use a cage armor but that basically will just burn thru as many case with the Russian.
> 
> The only way you can defeat it is probably the active protection system, or be vigilante about infantry surrounding, on the other hand, it took some skill to put that NLAW on top of a tank, I mean, it's not really the easiest thing to do.


Once the rocket or missle penetrates the top armor of an Abrams is it necesarily a kill? A lot has been made over the years about the death trap Russian tanks with the ammo bin exposed, footage from this conflict repeatedly shows ammo and fuel cooking off after missle strikes and often exploding. Would this happen as often on Western tanks given for example the Abrams armored ammo compartments and blow off panels?


----------



## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Probably the same, there are no way you can reinforce deck armor on a tank, you can try to use a cage armor but that basically will just burn thru as many case with the Russian.
> 
> The only way you can defeat it is probably the active protection system, or be vigilante about infantry surrounding, on the other hand, it took some skill to put that NLAW on top of a tank, I mean, it's not really the easiest thing to do.



The easiest way is just to not get within man-portable ATGM range.

Any missile bigger than man-portable one, will kill any tank anyways.

While tank guns easily have enough barrel length, and strengh to shoot a round to 5km, it's still impractical to use tank guns for 2km+ range.

Some proximity fuses may help, but ultimately, modern tanks suck at the original role of a tank — mobile frontline fire support.

The more tanks were used to fight other tanks, the worse they fared in their primary role. Americans, as I know, don't even have HE shells for M1A1 anymore. Huge guns to throw AP slugs got worse, and worse gun elevation with each generation. Some tanks today have elevation as small as 14°, which means it have to fear even tiniest hills, and buildings.

Giant increase in armour to withstand slugs also ate all of tank mobility. 75t last modifications of NATO MBTs can't even drive on weaker asphalt roads. Terrain was an enemy of tanks 80 years ago, but now it is like 10x of that.

If the enemy don't want to fight these tanks, they can just chose to go through a bit less favourable terrain for tanks, and be safe.

Tank mobility today is terrible. Tracks were a revolution in WW2 because they can go where wheeled vehicles cannot, but now it's a reverse.

Any tank today can be dispatched by a missile, using other tanks for that role at the cost of sapping their last usefulness at fire support is just stupid.


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Don't think there are anything to burn on a NLAW Projectile, it is not a rocket, it don't have fuel, it have an explosive warhead, it certainly would not catch fire when it bounce off.
> 
> Also, it does not explain why the burning is on the bottom of the turret. As I said, as weird as it was sounded, even if it did catch fire for some reason, the fire is does not exist on the outside, which only lead to one logical conclusion. That is the fire is happening on the inside.
> 
> Also if you have enough shape charge HE on that warhead, it can punch thru the top Armor of any tank, as it is around 10-20 mm RHA, and NLAW is designed to to an Armor piecing weapon, well, at least it was advertised as so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So yes, in my opinion, the warhead punched thru the turret and exploded on the inside, and it start a fire in the crew compartment. I have seen enough AT missile hit a tank to come with this conclusion.
> 
> @thetutle Just realised I posted the wrong Youtube clip, I have edited to the correct one.


I hope you’re right, but. A shaped charge requires an explosion to penetrate armour. Did you see an explosion? 

NLAW missile doesn’t have fuel? How does it travel 800m? What propels it? Surely something combustible. 

Looks to me like it didn’t have time to arm was a dud


----------



## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> No "Z" or "V" signs. Those vehicles didn't belong to Russia, but as usual you can run with those photos that don't prove anything.



Russian vehicles aren't only marked with "Z" or "V",when will you understand that ? 







A VDV BMD and its crew captured


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509083404201046016
Tunguska captured in Kharkiv


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509082635213156354

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508927677855846401

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## jhungary

patero said:


> Once the rocket or missle penetrates the top armor of an Abrams is it necesarily a kill? A lot has been made over the years about the death trap Russian tanks with the ammo bin exposed, footage from this conflict repeatedly shows ammo and fuel cooking off after missle strikes and often exploding. Would this happen as often on Western tanks given for example the Abrams armored ammo compartments and blow off panels?



The problem of the Russian tank is their autoloader, which means rounds and charges (they use them separately instead of the one single thing like we do in western tank) Which mean their powder is on the floor and just about everywhere, and we took advantage on that and a penetrating hit would mean it will cook off those charges, which is why you seldom see the turret get separated form the hull when a western tank got destroyed, but you see that a lot in a Russian tank.

We don't have ammo cook off problem like the Russian tank, but if one of those NLAW hit a western tank, it is going to deal damage on the inside, Afterall, you are talking about a stream of molten steel over 2000C penetrate inside the turret or hull, anything it touches is going to get burn. 

just because it won't cook off them rounds does not mean it will not do proper damage to the tank, it can range from taking it or the crew out of action, to completely destroy the inside..



thetutle said:


> I hope you’re right, but. A shaped charge requires an explosion to penetrate armour. Did you see an explosion?
> 
> NLAW missile doesn’t have fuel? How does it travel 800m? What propels it? Surely something combustible.
> 
> Looks to me like it didn’t have time to arm was a dud


Well, there may be an explosion? I don't know because it was covered with smoke in the video. I have seen penetration that comes without a big bang, in the end, all you need is that molten jacket, it got heated up to 2000C, it will penetrate inside a tank. Just like the first video I show you.

NLAW does not have fuel, it's not like a RPG, it's uses charges (IIRC it's shaped plastic explosive) inside the NLAW to set off the projectile, It's actually work like a gun, you have the charges on the bottom of the tube and you set off the primer to burn thru those charge to propel the projectile forward (Exactly like a firearms but with the charge on the outside instead of inside the casing of the projectile), that is why these missile are one-off, because you cannot reinsert the charges as they are sealed, which mean even if you insert a new NLAW Projectile in the tube, it won't work as there are nothing projecting it out.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> The easiest way is just to not get within man-portable ATGM range.
> 
> Any missile bigger than man-portable one, will kill any tank anyways.
> 
> While tank guns easily have enough barrel length, and strengh to shoot a round to 5km, it's still impractical to use tank guns for 2km+ range.
> 
> Some proximity fuses may help, but ultimately, modern tanks suck at the original role of a tank — mobile frontline fire support.
> 
> The more tanks were used to fight other tanks, the worse they fared in their primary role. Americans, as I know, don't even have HE shells for M1A1 anymore. Huge guns to throw AP slugs got worse, and worse gun elevation with each generation. Some tanks today have elevation as small as 14°, which means it have to fear even tiniest hills, and buildings.
> 
> Giant increase in armour to withstand slugs also ate all of tank mobility. 75t last modifications of NATO MBTs can't even drive on weaker asphalt roads. Terrain was an enemy of tanks 80 years ago, but now it is like 10x of that.
> 
> If the enemy don't want to fight these tanks, they can just chose to go through a bit less favourable terrain for tanks, and be safe.
> 
> Tank mobility today is terrible. Tracks were a revolution in WW2 because they can go where wheeled vehicles cannot, but now it's a reverse.
> 
> Any tank today can be dispatched by a missile, using other tanks for that role at the cost of sapping their last usefulness at fire support is just stupid.


Well, you can't always get outside AT team range tho, because they will not stand up and put up sign that said "AT Team here" 

As I said, the biggest weapon on a tank against an AT team is not the big gun on your turret, but the engine in the back of your tank, because mobility is a key. As I said, putting those AT round on target is not exactly easy, it's hard enough to follow the tank at distant and it's even harder when the tank is moving around. 

Almost all Anti-AT movement involve some kind of sudden change of direction and speed, the sagger drill I was talking about before involving launching smoke and then suddenly move back and do a J turn and get away from the Killzone. That is effective against most AT weapon.

On the other hand, if you take away the mobility, like how the Russian use them in Ukraine, that is basically asking for trouble. You run a tank on a limited environment and without speed and without room to manoeuvre, having infantry accompany or not is more or less suicide.


----------



## thetutle

coffee_cup said:


> So you dont offer any solution and just want the gas flow to stop like right now?
> 
> What is the contingency plan when 100s of thousands of unemployed people start rioting on the streets? Do you have any?


Those that are unemployed in Germany can just go back to their home countries.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Good video on the "Nazi's" battalions and how only 1,000 Nazis has got Putin so "hot and bothered"... so - basically all Russian/Kremlin propaganda as the Azov's are materially a non-issue .......

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## RescueRanger

Ali_Baba said:


> Good video on the "Nazi's" battalions and how only 1,000 Nazis has got Putin so "hot and bothered"... so - basically all Russian/Kremlin propaganda as the Azov's are materially a non-issue .......


It’s not just a thousand we’ve talked about this, the figure is much smaller than some pro Russians push out but it’s not “1000”.

That said using the pretext of “denazification” is lame and was exposed early on as a thinly veiled farce by Russia as a pretext of an invasion of a peaceful country.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509123270251057156

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509111667870810114

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Well, you can't always get outside AT team range tho, because they will not stand up and put up sign that said "AT Team here"



From what I seen on Twitters, it's not only ambus scenarios they faced, but fire exchanges during offensive: tanks sit in the field, and are trying to hit something tiny 2+ kms away with HEAT shells, while getting popped one after another either by Sugna, or Javelin.

I suspect that was the famed Guards Tank Division which got annihilated near Trasytanets. Their only eliteness was likelly them just not routing when under fire.


----------



## Ali_Baba

British fighters savour victory in ‘Battle of Irpin’, as dogs devour bodies of defeated Russians


Irpin residents cheer a ‘small victory’ in the liberation of their ruined home as soldiers recount experiences ‘much worse’ than Afghanistan




www.telegraph.co.uk


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> From what I seen on Twitters, it's not only ambus scenarios they faced, but fire exchanges during offensive: tanks *sit in the field*, and are trying to hit something tiny 2+ kms away with HEAT shells, while getting popped one after another either by Sugna, or Javelin.


Key word here is "Sit in the field", you either bug out, or run and gun, you never sit in the field, that's the first thing they teach you in Armor School...

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## Wood

Ukrainian side is claiming territory gain in Kharkhiv area


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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509134222572900357



2 T72B3 captured and one destroyed in Izium


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509133934742884359

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509082831967948804

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509139955393650688
Don’t know why he’s wearing the American flag patch


----------



## thetutle

letsrock said:


> Actually it sort off was. GDR was part of soviet bloc for 40 years. And was quiet wealthy by 80s. And many still fondly recollect it. There is even a german word for it - Ostalgie.


yes it was so good that people risked their life to get out. border guards shot on sight anyone trying to leave east Germany. 

Its was poorer than Yugoslavia. In east Germany you had to wait 15 or 20 years to get a car from the day you ordered one. 

My Bosnian parents and grandparents would go all over Eastern Europe on holidays and if you be so cheap and run down, it was like Americans going to Vietnam. Of course if anyone went to holidays to Hungary or east Germany the whole class wold laugh at you for going to such poor looser countries. such was the effect of Russian rule over these places. 

Now that these people are free of Russians you can see the wealth and development they enjoy. 

I remember ordinary Romanians could afford to eat meat once 1 week under Russian rule. Now, after russia is gone, they have salary 3 times that of russia.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509152791083864070
US now estimates more than 10K dead Russian soldiers

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Dude, tell me, who represent the United Kingdom?
> 
> Is it the head of state Queen Elizabeth? Or is it the Prime Minister Boris Johnson?
> 
> President is THE HEAD OF STATE of the United State, the congress and the senate to be precise is the people who was chosen to represent America.
> 
> And yes, if Biden does not have both congress and senate backing, what he said is what he said on G7, it does not mean this is what we do. Do you even remember Biden said on Saturday that Putin "Should not be in power" does that mean the US as a whole support a regime change on Russia?? Or even does it represent the United States when he said that??
> 
> Man, you are dumb. Report me if you want, but I got no other word for you.
> 
> If case you are still too stupid to catch up, Boris Johnson represent the UK because he IS the leader of the conservative party in the UK, which is the leading party in the government. President Biden is just a President, he have no control of either Congress or Senate. The most he can do is to issue executive order, which other than banning people like you to enter the US, he have no hold in any foreign or domestic policy in the US. Saying otherwise is just showing how you do not understand US politics.


just so you know, "congress" is the collective name of the house of reps & the senate together. 

US president is elected by popular vote in each state and he has immense powers. He clearly represents America.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> just so you know, "congress" is the collective name of the house of reps & the senate together.
> 
> US president is elected by popular vote in each state and he has immense powers. He clearly represents America.


Yes, Congress do actually means both house, but colloquially, congress means house of rep only. we refer to senate as a separate entity. Ie when we say "Congressman" or "Congresswoman" it refer to House of Rep for a district, and we refer to senator as senator......

And no. If US president are based on popularity vote, then Republican candidate will only be president twice (or 3 times) in the entire US history.

Most people don't know, US is not actually a democracy, we are a republic, so the guy we voted into office does not really represent us, it is the representation of representation of the United States.

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## CAPRICORN-88




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## thetutle

letsrock said:


> As far as i know there was never any shortage of food in germany. Yes they did not have 2 dozen varieties of cornflakes or fruits - but bread, meat, housing, public transport was cheap and plenty.


Housing was actually free. But it was pretty crappy.


----------



## Apollon

Boom another loss...Putin blinked first. Gas must not be paid in ruble .

https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2022-03/liveblog-ukraine-krieg-aktuell 


Russia is a complete joke.

First putin said 31.03. is deadline to pay in ruble. Germany and EU said no...today kremlin said...nevermind. maybe later?


@Ich 

I was right.

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## CAPRICORN-88




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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Most people don't know, US is not actually a democracy, we are a republic, so the guy we voted into office does not really represent us, it is the representation of representation of the United States.


Thats ridiculous, having the electoral college does not disqualify a country from being a democracy. Its actually more democratic than having a "first past the post" system. 

Being a republic has nothing to do with a democracy or lack thereof. You can have a democratic republic or a dictatorial republic. The "republic" part does not describe a level of democracy.



gambit said:


> Why?
> 
> First, what made you think we stole it? Second, What the Ukrainians do with their products are their rights, so if they want to share the technicals of the Kolchuga system with US, why should we say no? Maybe you should educate yourself on the IP rights issue.
> 
> There is no point in anyone pressing on what we *WILL* learn of the Kolchuga system. Our 'foreign technology exploitation' offices of all branches of the US military is the best in the world, and given what we got in the Nevada desert, the best in the solar system. Personally, I have some good guesses on what we will learn. But as of now, this is just another step in making sure our lead in 'stealth' remains the lead for everyone, including China, to follow.
> 
> As far as Russia's Su-57 go, once this war is over, the 57 will become another trophy in *OUR* museum. Russia's low radar observability program is over. It was never a good start in the first place.


You will learn that America needlessly spends so much money on defence.

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## Wood

Apollon said:


> Boom another loss...Putin blinked first. Gas must not be paid in ruble .
> 
> https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2022-03/liveblog-ukraine-krieg-aktuell
> 
> 
> Russia is a complete joke.
> 
> First putin said 31.03. is deadline to pay in ruble. Germany and EU said no...today kremlin said...nevermind. maybe later?
> 
> 
> @Ich
> 
> I was right.


Putin is a degenerate gambler. 

He is used to win repeatedly by diplomatically bullying the west. After Crimea, he thought that he can militarily bully Europe as well. The gamble failed and he is finding that hard to digest

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## gambit

thetutle said:


> Thats ridiculous, having the electoral college does not disqualify a country from being a democracy. Its actually more democratic than having a "first past the post" system.
> 
> Being a republic has nothing to do with a democracy or lack thereof. You can have a democratic republic or a dictatorial republic. The "republic" part does not describe a level of democracy.


When some refused to call the US a 'democracy', they usually referred to the raw populist style of democratic practice, which is literally popular vote. The danger is that %51 can vote to enslave the other %49. But *YOU* are essentially correct, the US is a 'democracy' in the sense that we employ democratic practices at as much levels as possible with provisions to protect minority views.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Thats ridiculous, having the electoral college does not disqualify a country from being a democracy. Its actually more democratic than having a "first past the post" system.
> 
> Being a republic has nothing to do with a democracy or lack thereof. You can have a democratic republic or a dictatorial republic. The "republic" part does not describe a level of democracy.
> 
> 
> You will learn that America needlessly spends so much money on defence.


Well, US is not democratic........That's the entire point, not the point of being a republic. 

Unlike in Australia. we do not have a party majority rule, which mean you can elect a governor (or president) of one party and the entire legislature from another party, that is why Bi-partisanship is VERY important in the US not as much as in Australia or other commonwealth system

The President in particular, is not a product of direct vote. If you had studied the Constitution, it was intentionally made not being a democratic country. 

Not being a dictatorship does not mean it is democratic

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## Apollon

Wood said:


> Putin is a degenerate gambler.
> 
> He is used to win repeatedly by diplomatically bullying the west. After Crimea, he thought that he can militarily bully Europe as well. The gamble failed and he is finding that hard to digest



German magizine "Welt" says now Putins speaker Peskov said in pressconference, that kremlin never said gas would stop tomorrow. He just want call a meeting to discuss. 😅😅😅😅😅









Gaslieferungen in Rubel? Putin sichert Scholz Zahlungen in Euro zu - WELT


Dreht Russland den Gashahn ab? Müssen Deutschland und die EU künftig die Gasrechnungen in Rubel bezahlen? Der russische Präsident Putin wird heute über weitere Maßnahmen mit Gazprom sprechen. Energiemarktexperten sagen: Unabhängig davon könnte es bei der Liefermenge Veränderungen geben.




www.welt.de





Putin is done. Nothing is worse than threatening and then blinking first.


Where are all the putinists here now?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509162529259503618

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509151957247832073

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> When some refused to call the US a 'democracy', they usually referred to the raw populist style of democratic practice, which is literally popular vote. The danger is that %51 can vote to enslave the other %49. But *YOU* are essentially correct, the US is a 'democracy' in the sense that we employ democratic practices at as much levels as possible with provisions to protect minority views.


lol, he should tell that to the rural state and see how they like them "Democracy" 

It is done exactly like this IMO to give more power to rural state, when they have the same number of senator than big city state. The imbalance of power is written in our constitution so that it will not be biased to any one system. 

People confused being "Democratic" and a state with "Democratic Value, as in freedom of speech, freedom to vote and so on" We are the latter, not the former.

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## thetutle

Apollon said:


>


That East German kid at the end got a banana and a chocolate bar, he just won the lottery. Imagine he was given a can of coke. it would be like meeting an alien. In the 80's you could probably get exchange a whole night with a Czech hooker for a six pack can of Coca Cola. Not a bottle, but a can. It was unheard of.



dBSPL said:


> Deputy Mikhail Delyagin on the Russian state channel "Russia 1" TV channel:
> 
> "There are problems against Azerbaijan. Do we need Azerbaijan's oil industry? No, it is extremely vulnerable. If people don't understand words, they will have to start understanding from actions"
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508540527058292736
> If Russia extends the war to the territory of Azerbaijan, this will mean the physical unification of the Turkic world. I'm sure the political mind in russia is not as stupid as this deputy.


If russia extends the war to Azerbaijan, which it will soon, it will mean the end of Azerbaijan. And it will expose the supposed muslim Putin lovers here for what they really are. It will also show turkey made a serious error in appeasing Russia. But I can understand the Turkish position, as there is a slight chance russia might not invade. Only a slight chance.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509160195443855363


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## thetutle

Clutch said:


> I also think the fall out from this Ukraine loss for Russia is Russian's active role to destabilize other regions e.g. middle east and take revenge by supporting proxies against the West...


Yes, thats what russia will do. and it will not end well. I dont see how Assad can last, USA will be looking to get rid of him more actively. So far US strategy was to merely destroy syria.



PakFactor said:


> I’m of the same opinion as you brother. I’m not supporting Russians cause I like them, but they serve my interests to open a front in Europe and hopefully more pain down the road so they see how it feels. There’s a reason Muslims are quite in this conflict and watching on the sidelines and Blinken running around like a horny goat in the Middle East with none to pick his balls. As you put it, it’s White on White action I could careless how many perish or they nuke themselves.
> 
> Let’s not forget the media did a good job spreading Islamophobia last 20+ years and they expected some sort of Kumbaya gathering? Or us holding hands in Kyiv and switching Facebook profile pictures? Lol. Then Sino phobia and now Russian phobia good job uniting all three.


Would you support Russia china India block even if it meant accepting India's control over Kashmir and Indias future genocide/expulsion of muslims?



FairAndUnbiased said:


> Yep Chinese have some hard thinking to do as well, from workers to private business owner to government. What is a real safe investment, what are real risks. Hopefully this convinces the most corrupt elites that the only way to ensure their personal best interest is not to loot and take money to foreign banks but to build up their own national strength. Why loot and run when you can loot and rule?
> 
> China isn't even the worst about this. At least our oligarchs can't buy random football clubs or something.


Chinese dictators aren't stupid, they know their wealth is safer in the west than in china. Yes west could confiscate it, but China can confiscate it far easier.

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## Meengla

thetutle said:


> Would you support Russia china India block even if it meant accepting India's control over Kashmir and Indias future genocide/expulsion of muslims?



I think the more likely scenario is that Russia and China, now firmly allied, well, until at least Putin dies, are going to make India and Pakistan do compromises on Kashmir. BTW, in another post above, you are overthinking Russian capabilities and intentions such as mentioning Russia invading Azerbaijan.
Let Putin pass away and this will be all sorted out.


----------



## thetutle

WotTen said:


> Personally, I don't understand why countries keep their foreign reserves in other countries. This includes government investments in other countries.
> 
> For example, Saudi Arabia and UAE have billions invested in the West, and then they go around asking foreigners to FDI in their own countries. Why not invest your own billions in your own country instead of leaving it hostage in other countries?


Because they know all too well how perilous their hold on these countries is. Whole dynasties have been ready to flee in the middle of the night and have suitcases packed.


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## WotTen

thetutle said:


> Because they know all too well how perilous their hold on these countries is. Whole dynasties have been ready to flee in the middle of the night and have suitcases packed.


I am talking about state assets, not personal wealth. Saudi Arabia and UAE have national funds worth tens of billions invested in the West instead of their own countries. And then they ask foreigner to invest in their countries. Makes no sense.


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## SuvarnaTeja

gambit said:


> You can buy new equipment to replace what inevitably will fail from usage, and upgrade as technology improves. If you lose the war, the MICs die. So in the end, MICs make money in peacetime, not war.



No. MICs will not die if US loses the war.

MICs make money irrespective of the result of the war.

What dies is military personnel and countries image which MICs could not care less.


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## jhungary

WotTen said:


> Personally, I don't understand why countries keep their foreign reserves in other countries. This includes government investments in other countries.
> 
> For example, Saudi Arabia and UAE have billions invested in the West, and then they go around asking foreigners to FDI in their own countries. Why not invest your own billions in your own country instead of leaving it hostage in other countries?


It's a fiat currency thing.

You cannot back your own currency with your own currency. Otherwise it would just be a "What you said is true" kind of situation.

In layman term, country around the world uses foreign currency to back their own currency, that is how it work. let's say your central bank have AUD$100 bill in it. How do you guarantee this worth A$100 when it was printed on a 10c piece of plastic? You guarantee it by holding A$100 equivalent of foreign currency, say you have a A$100 note and $75 USD in the bank, you can use that $75 USD to back your A$100 note, because at any time, you know you can trade your $75 USD to the US Central bank and get A$100 dollars. the same is done in the US to balance their own currency (They uses A$100 to back $75 USD) which mean you can trade between country to back your own currency.

That is done on top of your country own limit of circulation, so you don't lost the excess value of your currency. Which mean you don't need to print as much money to have more tender in circulation and it act as a cushion for any monetary shock. Because Printing money is bad for monetary policy.


----------



## thetutle

SuvarnaTeja said:


> The question that people need to ask is why do countries need weapons if Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, ISIS etc. are all decimated by the US & NATO?
> 
> For this very reason US will never kill these entities as they are the reason why countries buy weapons from the US and NATO.


Russian weapons are bought by countries that need to kill their own civilians.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508924340821282818
Lol

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## SuvarnaTeja

thetutle said:


> Russian weapons are bought by countries that need to kill their own civilians.



I think people prefer being killed by their own government than a foreign government.

My government may be a bastard but at least it is my bastard.

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## Vergennes

VDV are taking heavy casualties

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509157134021369857
Zelensky's demand for security guarantee from Europe seemed unrealistic to me. It is like he wanted Ukraine to be part of NATO without paying for any expenses and risks associated with the alliance. Why would Europe agree for this ?

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> It's a fiat currency thing.
> 
> You cannot back your own currency with your own currency. Otherwise it would just be a "What you said is true" kind of situation.


"What you said is true" is the very definition of fiat currency.


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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> "What you said is true" is the very definition of fiat currency.


Well, then tell me why Russia is stopping Russian buying and selling USD to stop the currency value from falling?

Putin could have just proclaim "Rouble is now worth 0.012 US Dollars" or any value for that matter.....

LOL

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> Well, then tell me why Russia is stopping Russian buying and selling USD to stop the currency value from falling?
> 
> Putin could have just proclaim "Rouble is now worth 0.012 US Dollars" or any value to that matter.....
> 
> LOL


Putin can proclaim what Ruble can do within Russia. If he proclaims "Rouble is now worth 0.012 US Dollars" IN RUSSIA, he can. Whether this is true outside of Russia is not up to him. The same happens to Chinese Yuan. There is a domestic exchange market dominated by China government. There is another offshore market that is not controlled by China government. Two markets often have different exchange rates.


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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> Putin can proclaim what Ruble can do within Russia. If he proclaims "Rouble is now worth 0.012 US Dollars" IN RUSSIA, he can. Whether this is true outside of Russia is not up to him. The same happens to Chinese Yuan. There is a domestic exchange market dominated by China government. There is another offshore market that is not controlled by China government. Two markets often have different exchange rates.


Then it is not "What he said is true" kind of situation, at least not to international level.


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## nang2

jhungary said:


> Then it is not "What he said is true" kind of situation, at least not to international level.


We were talking about fiat currency not about who is God.

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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> We were talking about fiat currency not about who is God.


You do know fiat currency does not just used within your own country, right??

I mean, as I said before, if this is for "Domestic consumption" I don't really care if you crave the number 100 on an apple and say this is a legal tender. You can't do it when you are setting it on the market value. What it worth is not how much it worth to your own people, it's always vis-a-vis other currency. Hence the entire currency market is floating not fixed.


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## nang2

jhungary said:


> You do know fiat currency does not just used within your own country, right??
> 
> I mean, as I said before, if this is for "Domestic consumption" I don't really care if you crave the number 100 on an apple and say this is a legal tender. You can't do it when you are setting it on the market value. What it worth is not how much it worth to your own people, it's always vis-a-vis other currency. Hence the entire currency market is floating not fixed.


That is for international trade, which is only a part of overall economy, not the whole thing.


----------



## jhungary

nang2 said:


> That is for international trade, which is only a part of overall economy, not the whole thing.


Hence as I said 

Then it is not "What he said is true" kind of situation, at least not to international level.


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## northeast

Meengla said:


> I think the more likely scenario is that Russia and China, now firmly allied, well, until at least Putin dies, are going to make India and Pakistan do compromises on Kashmir. BTW, in another post above, you are overthinking Russian capabilities and intentions such as mentioning Russia invading Azerbaijan.
> Let Putin pass away and this will be all sorted out.


Nah，Russia had its time trying to become a part of the west in the era of Yeltsin. Empty promises,betrayal and chaos is the only memory. Russia would rather learnig from china rather than the west. Russia is done with the west,at least in the next 3 or 4 decades,they won't try to please the west no matter putin die or not.


----------



## nang2

jhungary said:


> Hence as I said
> 
> Then it is not "What he said is true" kind of situation, at least not to international level.


That is a strawman argument since he never intended for the international level.

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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> That is a strawman argument since he never intended for the international level.


Dude, he is asking why country put their own asset *IN AN OVERSEA BANK.......*




> Personally, *I don't understand why countries keep their foreign reserves in other countries*. This includes government investments in other countries.
> 
> For example, Saudi Arabia and UAE have billions invested in the West, and then they go around asking foreigners to FDI in their own countries. Why not invest your own billions in your own country instead of leaving it hostage in other countries?



So what does he mean by "*IN OTHER COUNTRIES*" then? If he never intended for the international level??


----------



## SuvarnaTeja

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509157134021369857
> Zelensky's demand for security guarantee from Europe seemed unrealistic to me. It is like he wanted Ukraine to be part of NATO without paying for any expenses and risks associated with the alliance. Why would Europe agree for this ?



NATO did not invade Ukraine.

Ukraine was invaded by Russia.

So Ukraine should ask for security guarantees from Russia not NATO.

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> Dude, he is asking why country put their own asset *IN AN OVERSEA BANK.......*


That is a separate question. Are we changing the subject now?

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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> That is a separate question. Are we changing the subject now?


Dude, what is a separate question??

THis is his orignal post...



> Personally, I don't understand *why countries keep their foreign reserves in other countries*. This includes government investments in other countries.
> 
> For example, Saudi Arabia and UAE have billions invested in the West, and then they go around asking foreigners to FDI in their own countries. Why not invest your own billions in your own country instead of leaving it hostage in other countries?



Then do tell me what does he meant by "IN OTHER COUNTRIES"??


----------



## nang2

jhungary said:


> Dude, what is a separate question??
> 
> THis is his orignal post...
> 
> 
> 
> Then do tell me what does he meant by "IN OTHER COUNTRIES"??


Our current subject is about fiat currency and about whether it is a "what he said is true" situation. My answer is yes and its scope is domestic. Of course, any domestic event has international impact as well. But "what he said is true" domestically is a dictate. Its international impact is only an influence, not a dictate. So, the current subject is about that "dictate". If you want to talk about international influence, that is a separate subject, isn't it?


----------



## sur

*Armed Forces of Ukraine keep under siege the Mariupol maternity hospital, where there are about a hundred people*
03/30/2022 04:39 PM (updated: 03/30/2022 05:46 PM)

About a hundred people, including 37 children, are in one of the besieged maternity hospitals in Mariupol, according to the headquarters of the territorial defense of the DPR.
"Ukrainian militants besieged the Mariupol maternity hospital, preventing women from getting water to the nearest well in the private sector of the city," the ministry's telegram channel said in a statement.

According to the Donetsk security officials, we are talking about maternity hospital No. 2. There are about a hundred people there, 37 of them are children, five babies.






_*Representatives of the Dutch party “Forum for Democracy” announced their refusal to listen to the speech of the President of Ukraine *_*Vladimir Zelensky*

“*It is naive and even absurd to see Zelenskiy as a half-saint*. He recently banned eleven (!) political parties, including the country’s largest opposition party. Critical TV channels were banned, while other TV channels were recently forced to broadcast propaganda 24 hours a day,”

“And recently, horrific acts of violence against seemingly helpless Russian prisoners of war by, most likely, Ukrainian troops have also leaked to social networks. All this makes his video speech in our parliament, to put it mildly, inappropriate,”





*What a Russian businessman "" is doing in negotiation team?*
(2nd src)





Soccer club owner billionaire.

Russian businessman *Roman Abramovich* is *not an official member of the delegation* at the talks with Ukraine, said Dmitry Peskov, press secretary of the Russian President.
“Abramovich *is involved in providing certain contacts between the Russian and Ukrainian sides*, and he is not an official member of the delegation,” he said during a conversation with reporters.

Peskov noted that Roman Abramovich is present from the Russian side at the talks in Istanbul. He also recalled that the Russian delegation is headed by presidential aide Vladimir Medinsky.

It also became known that the Russian businessman, before the start of the dialogue between the Russian and Ukrainian delegations in Istanbul , met with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan at the Dolmabahce Palace .
.



And RUB back to 23-Feb level:


----------



## jhungary

nang2 said:


> Our current subject is about fiat currency and about whether it is a "what he said is true" situation. My answer is yes and its scope is domestic. Of course, any domestic event has international impact as well. But "what he said is true" domestically is a dictate. Its international impact is only an influence, not a dictate. So, the current subject is about that "dictate". If you want to talk about international influence, that is a separate subject, isn't it?


This is not "OUR" current subject. There were NEVER OUR current subject.

I was answering HIS QUESTION, not yours when I made that post.

If you want to talk about Domestic Consumption of your own currency, as I said, You can print USD in China and call it Yuan and use it for Legal Tender for all I care, that does not mean nothing when you put your currency in a foreign bank, like HE asked.


----------



## nang2

jhungary said:


> This is not "OUR" current subject. There were NEVER OUR current subject.
> 
> I was answering HIS QUESTION, not yours when I made that post.
> 
> If you want to talk about Domestic Consumption of your own currency, as I said, You can print USD in China and call it Yuan and use it for Legal Tender for all I care, that does not mean nothing when you put your currency in a foreign bank, like HE asked.


But I was responding to your statement about fiat currency (I hate people spreading false economy concepts). I didn't even pay attention to what you and he were talking about. When you answered me back, the subject on fiat money became "OUR" current subject. You may be mistaken in thinking that I joined your conversation with him. I certainly wasn't.

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## Viet

Ah cool
Germany will cut all Russia imports of coal, oil and gas to zero by 2024.
To 0.
Putin destroys the relationship to Germany to which the country has built in 70 years.
Even during the height of Cold War crisis Russia or USSR delivered energy to Germany.
We have reached the point of no return. 
Well.









Germany Looks to Cut Russian Natural Gas Supply Swiftly, Import LNG by 2023 - Natural Gas Intelligence


Chancellor Olaf Scholz’s pledge for Germany to become independent from Russian energy imports “as soon as possible” is said to be supported by ambitious




www.naturalgasintel.com


----------



## thetutle

WotTen said:


> I am talking about state assets, not personal wealth. Saudi Arabia and UAE have national funds worth tens of billions invested in the West instead of their own countries. And then they ask foreigner to invest in their countries. Makes no sense.


They use sovereign wealth funds to enrich themselves buy for example buying into a western company and making their cousin a director who will get massive bonuses from the deal. Then they purchase western companies that have somehow involved their friends and cousins. As brokers or estate agents etc. 

They also invest in west to keep the western masters happy so they dont overthrow them. Thats all the gulf Arabs. The Qataris do this to turkey as they are their master and protector. Saudi and UAE do it to America and UK, as those coutnries created those gulf monarchies out of thin air. 

But at the same time they also need foreign investment because they lack all know how. They are like the special needs kid who won the lotto. He will need everything done for him. They even get state of the art patriots that dont work. see Iran attack on Saudi.

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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> But I was responding to your statement about fiat currency (I hate people spreading false economy concepts). I didn't even pay attention to what you and he were talking about. When you answered me back, the subject on fiat money became "OUR" current subject. You may be mistaken in thinking that I joined your conversation with him. I certainly wasn't.


Dude, he was asking why country put their currency in foreign bank, and not investing in their own.

This is to strengthen their own currency value because FIAT CURRENCY have floating value. The more currency you put on foreign bank strengthen your own currency value. Because you need less of your own currency. This is a simple supply and demand.

I am not talking about "HE WHO IS KING AND DECIDED EVERYTHING WITHIN YOUR OWN BORDER" which is the reason why he asked this question in the first place.

And no, as I said before, your concept of "Fiat Currency" is wrong, as I said, if this is like what you said, the Fed can determine the value of US currency willy-nilly, then US can weaponize their currency to a point it can basically destroy anything because it is 61% of world currency. As I said, what if the Fed said now all US currency in China hand only worth $1 without any backing, would China just lost around 2 trillions worth of USD (now worth $1) because the fed said so??

So no, to answer your question, my answer is the same, if this is your version of "economic concepts" then I dont want to learn it.



nang2 said:


> But I was responding to your statement about fiat currency (I hate people spreading false economy concepts). I didn't even pay attention to what you and he were talking about. When you answered me back, the subject on fiat money became "OUR" current subject. You may be mistaken in thinking that I joined your conversation with him. I certainly wasn't.


Or are you are arguing US federal reserve somehow have no power to govern the USD Chinese own?


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## Apollon

Damn thats like something out of a bizarre Hitchcock movie. Russian soldiers get medals and appear like in shock and fear.

Looks like hostage situation

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## Type59

Viet said:


> Ah cool
> Germany will cut all Russia imports of coal, oil and gas to zero by 2024.
> To 0.
> Putin destroys the relationship to Germany to which the country has built in 70 years.
> Even during the height of Cold War crisis Russia or USSR delivered energy to Germany.
> We have reached the point of no return.
> Well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Germany Looks to Cut Russian Natural Gas Supply Swiftly, Import LNG by 2023 - Natural Gas Intelligence
> 
> 
> Chancellor Olaf Scholz’s pledge for Germany to become independent from Russian energy imports “as soon as possible” is said to be supported by ambitious
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.naturalgasintel.com



Posts like this make me think. 

If you out bid other nations for Australian coal then other nations will buy from Russia because Germany is paying a premium for Aussie coal.

If every nation sanctioned Russia then won't be enough coal, gas and oil for everyone. Companies in China and India will have access to cheaper hence become more competitive then German ones.


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## kingQamaR

northeast said:


> Nah，Russia had its time trying to become a part of the west in the era of Yeltsin. Empty promises,betrayal and chaos is the only memory. Russia would rather learnig from china rather than the west. Russia is done with the west,at least in the next 3 or 4 decades,they won't try to please the west no matter putin die or not.



One is a communist country the other is an oligarchy, neither of which are formed or run democratically.

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> I am not talking about "HE WHO IS KING AND DECIDED EVERYTHING WITHIN YOUR OWN BORDER" which is the reason why he asked this question in the first place.
> 
> And no, as I said before, your concept of "Fiat Currency" is wrong, as I said, if this is like what you said, the Fed can determine the value of US currency willy-nilly, then US can weaponize their currency to a point it can basically destroy anything because it is 61% of world currency. As I said, what if the Fed said now all US currency in China hand only worth $1 without any backing, would China just lost around 2 trillions worth of USD (now worth $1) because the fed said so??
> 
> So no, to answer your question, my answer is the same, if this is your version of "economic concepts" then I dont want to learn it.


You are conflating that value of US currency with its exchange value as if it is only type of value.


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## F-22Raptor

The Russian Air Force has performed so poorly, that US Air Force analysts believe that upgraded F-15s/F-16s would dominate the Russians and that F-22s would be overkill.

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> Or are you are arguing US federal reserve somehow have no power to govern the USD Chinese own?


You just mentioned that Chinese can print USD, call it Chinese yuan and make it circulated within China. Why can they do the same with existing USD in their hands, save the printing effort?


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## thetutle

Its very hard t leave russia now. Lots of airlines have cancelled flights. The ones that do have them are really expensive. a one way to Istanbul form Moscow is $1,000 USD

You cant go by car, because its forbidden, supposedly due to covid. 

For many countries you need western vaccine and Russians mainly have sputnik. This has truly taken russia back 30 years. 

Even in the Cold War you could leave russia, but you had to go through all these hoops. It was only theoretically possible, and thats what its turning out to be like now, slowly but surely.


----------



## Viet

Type59 said:


> Posts like this make me think.
> 
> If you out bid other nations for Australian coal then other nations will buy from Russia because Germany is paying a premium for Aussie coal.
> 
> If every nation sanctioned Russia then won't be enough coal, gas and oil for everyone. Companies in China and India will have access to cheaper hence become more competitive then German ones.


No Germany will go green. Solar, wind, and the likes.
No coal, no nuclear, no Russia imports.
We will import Lng from US, Canada, Venezuela and from the Arabs, from everywhere except Russia.
I myself think the Germans are nuts.
They are sometimes like fanatics or extremists.


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## thetutle

Viet said:


> No Germany will go green. Solar, wind, and the likes.
> No coal, no nuclear, no Russia imports.
> We will import Lng from US, Canada, Venezuela and from the Arabs, from everywhere except Russia.
> I myself think the Germans are nuts.
> They are sometimes like fanatics or extremists.


Yeah the should have kept the nuke plants at least.

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## Ali_Baba

Russia loses its EIGHTH colonel​








Russia loses its EIGHTH colonel after fierce fighting in Kharkiv


Kyiv said it had 'eliminated' Colonel Denis Kurilo, commander of the 200th separate motorised rifle brigade, in fighting near Kharkiv.




www.dailymail.co.uk


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## northeast

kingQamaR said:


> One is a communist country the other is an oligarchy, neither of which are formed or run democratically. What planet are these Indian idiots on?


How does this have to do with democracy？Africa is democratic，go there idiot.


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## Viet

thetutle said:


> Yeah the should have kept the nuke plants at least.


If it’s me I will keep them all, and build more. Do like the French. They have lots of nuclear power plants. Grow them like mushrooms. Then we say to Putin: you can keep your gas and stick it to elsewhere.


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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> You just mentioned that Chinese can print USD, call it Chinese yuan and make it circulated within China. Why can they do the same with existing USD in their hands, save the printing effort?


So what if China print USD, does that mean the fed will recognize those USD with those Arbitrary serial number that being Print?

On the other hand, USD in China hand have no value unless the Fed back it, otherwise it would be worth the paper it was printed on (probably 1c) then $1, $5, $10, $20, $100. The USD value was set by US Federal Bank, not Chinese Central bank, and it only worth the denomination, wherever it is, as long as Federal Bank Guarantee that value. Just because you print it, it does not make it that value you printed on.

And you are saying US federal bank can Guarantee whatever value they want. So, my question is, what if Federal Reserve bank announce whatever USD the Chinese is holding, those USD now worth the grand total of $1? What do you think China will do? When you already paid $100000000 or whatever amount it is for goods and services? In exchange of those currency?



nang2 said:


> You are conflating that value of US currency with its exchange value as if it is only type of value.


I am not, I am simply following what you said.

You said the Fed can assign whatever value on any USD they printed, right? What about the one that Chinese own? They can still assign value on it, they have all the serial number and all.

What if they assign an arbitrary value to the amount of USD China is holding? You can't stop it because as you said, there are nothing to back it, right?


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## Apollon

There was an interesting article which ssid a main factor why russia fails is because Belarus. It was planned that belarussian troops secure east of ukraine to cut off supply of western weapons. The belarussian dictator was hold in power by putin and has zero support from the people. Belorussian officers deserted, head of army stepped back and some soldiers even went to ukraine to fight against russia. Belarussian railroad workers sabotage the railways which hinders russian logistics even more. Apparantly Lukashenko bugged out which collapsed an entire front for Putin. Many belorussians see a russian defeat in ukraine as their only hope to get free.


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## Ali_Baba

Russian fighter jets violate Swedish airspace​








Russian fighter jets equipped with nuclear weapons violate Swedish airspace


RUSSIAN fighter jets "equipped with nuclear weapons" violated Sweden's airspace earlier this month, according to new information from a major Swedish broadcaster.




www.express.co.uk


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## EasyNow

Viet said:


> No Germany will go green. Solar, wind, and the likes.
> No coal, no nuclear, no Russia imports.
> We will import Lng from US, Canada, Venezuela and from the Arabs, from everywhere except Russia.
> I myself think the Germans are nuts.
> They are sometimes like fanatics or extremists.



I agree with all you've said but also nothing is written in stone. Germany will not become reliant on Russian gas again, but once the conflict is over and a friendly govt is in place, I believe gas will flow again at Germany's convenience.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509209490624860162


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## khansaheeb

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509157134021369857
> Zelensky's demand for security guarantee from Europe seemed unrealistic to me. It is like he wanted Ukraine to be part of NATO without paying for any expenses and risks associated with the alliance. Why would Europe agree for this ?


Long term strategic foothold on the Russian border?


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## Dustom9

jhungary said:


> It's a fiat currency thing.
> 
> You cannot back your own currency with your own currency. Otherwise it would just be a "What you said is true" kind of situation.
> 
> In layman term, country around the world uses foreign currency to back their own currency, that is how it work. let's say your central bank have AUD$100 bill in it. How do you guarantee this worth A$100 when it was printed on a 10c piece of plastic? You guarantee it by holding A$100 equivalent of foreign currency, say you have a A$100 note and $75 USD in the bank, you can use that $75 USD to back your A$100 note, because at any time, you know you can trade your $75 USD to the US Central bank and get A$100 dollars. the same is done in the US to balance their own currency (They uses A$100 to back $75 USD) which mean you can trade between country to back your own currency.
> 
> That is done on top of your country own limit of circulation, so you don't lost the excess value of your currency. Which mean you don't need to print as much money to have more tender in circulation and it act as a cushion for any monetary shock. Because Printing money is bad for monetary policy.


Chacha! Bus.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509210919930314754

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## jhungary

Dustom9 said:


> Chacha! Bus.


Ba Da Bing.


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## Wood

khansaheeb said:


> Long term strategic foothold on the Russian border?


Nope. Zelensky's neutrality offer to Russia in this deal says that Ukraine will never host troops or strategic weapons from foreign countries. So Europe will not get anything in return expect for Ukraine in EU


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## EasyNow

nang2 said:


> Our current subject is about fiat currency and about whether it is a "what he said is true" situation. My answer is yes and its scope is domestic. Of course, any domestic event has international impact as well. But "what he said is true" domestically is a dictate. Its international impact is only an influence, not a dictate. So, the current subject is about that "dictate". If you want to talk about international influence, that is a separate subject, isn't it?



Bro just give it up, your position is wrong on this. 

Fiat currency is not 'what he said is true'. Just because Russia overvalues it's ruble, doesn't make it true. If putin says 1 ruble is worth 1 dollar within its borders every Russian will swap his rubles for dollars (or items that hold that dollar value.)

Also everything has a cost, every country has to import certain materials. If cost of imports go up then prices go up. Which means a ruble is naturally worth less .

If fiat worked the way you said, then Zimbabwe would not print 1billion dollar bills.

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## jamal18

Wood said:


> Many analysts believe that Russia has culminated. As weather improves, Russia may make another attempt to take Kiev. If this is not possible or successful, then Putin has to declare that the territorial gains in South and East of Ukraine as victory to his domestic audience. His TV pundits will attest it for him. Putin will gamble that this is enough to keep his throne.
> 
> I don't think Russia can really sustain a long war that can last for the rest of this year while reeling under Western sanctions. Accepting promises of neutrality from Ukraine will not be a matter of choice in this situation. Putin will want to believe it at that point.


I believe that the deployment around Kiev was a feint. The idea was to tie down Ukrainian troops so that they couldn't redeploy to the east, where the critical battle was.

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## Gripen9

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russian Air Force has performed so poorly, that US Air Force analysts believe that upgraded F-15s/F-16s would dominate the Russians and that F-22s would be overkill.


File it under no shit sherlock...
Pakistan Airforce demonstrated that on Feb 27, 2019 -- Pair of Arrows went pitbull


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## jhungary

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509157134021369857
> Zelensky's demand for security guarantee from Europe seemed unrealistic to me. It is like he wanted Ukraine to be part of NATO without paying for any expenses and risks associated with the alliance. Why would Europe agree for this ?


It wouldn't, if they would, NATO would already been at war with the Russian already....

Ukraine need to look at immediate country as guarantor, not UK or US or any far away country.

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## khansaheeb

Wood said:


> Nope. Zelensky's neutrality offer to Russia in this deal says that Ukraine will never host troops or strategic weapons from foreign countries. So Europe will not get anything in return expect for Ukraine in EU


Officially no but unofficially yes. NATO will beef up the capabilities of the Ukrainian forces one way or another to be a thorn in the Russian front.


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## jhungary

jamal18 said:


> I believe that the deployment around Kiev was a feint. The idea was to tie down Ukrainian troops so that they couldn't redeploy to the east, where the critical battle was.z


It does not make sense because

a.) The center of gravity is Kyiv, everything Russia said they want to do is in Kyiv (Demilitarize Ukraine and Denazifying Ukraine)
b.) The Russia attack Kyiv from the East (From Sumy and Kharkiv) as well as in this map show






You don't feign an attack then using the "Main Force" to attack the Feign, that defeat the purpose of Feigning the attack in the first place. 

In this case, it's more like they try to attack Kyiv from the North from Belarus thru Irpin/Hostomal, and it failed, then they try to do it thru Chernahiv, and it failed, then they try to go from Sumy and Kharkiv, and all 3 are stuck now.


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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509210919930314754



A Ukrainian Buk intercepting a Russian cruise missile

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## jamal18

jhungary said:


> It does not make sense because
> 
> a.) The center of gravity is Kyiv, everything Russia said they want to do is in Kyiv (Demilitarize Ukraine and Denazifying Ukraine)
> b.) The Russia attack Kyiv from the East (From Sumy and Kharkiv) as well as in this map show
> View attachment 828702
> 
> 
> You don't feign an attack then using the "Main Force" to attack the Feign, that defeat the purpose of Feigning the attack in the first place.
> 
> In this case, it's more like they try to attack Kyiv from the North from Belarus thru Irpin/Hostomal, and it failed, then they try to do it thru Chernahiv, and it failed, then they try to go from Sumy and Kharkiv, and all 3 are stuck now.


The most significant Ukrainian forces were in the east. To destroy Ukraine's military capability, these are forces that have to be destroyed. That task is virtually finished.

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## Wood

khansaheeb said:


> Officially no but unofficially yes. NATO will beef up the capabilities of the Ukrainian forces one way or another to be a thorn in the Russian front.


IMO, Ukraine should have spent 10% or more of its GDP after 2014. Their intelligence agency should have been aware of Russian intentions already. Ukraine should have junked Soviet weaponry and have fully invested/trained in western hardware. 

Countries that are under such immediate threat of much superior foe should prioritize their security interests above social welfare. Now even if Ukraine manages to keep its key cities, they are all damaged to dust


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## F-22Raptor

jamal18 said:


> The most significant Ukrainian forces were in the east. To destroy Ukraine's military capability, these are forces that have to be destroyed. That task is virtually finished.



100% false. Ukraines military is nowhere near being destroyed. Not even close

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## jhungary

jamal18 said:


> The most significant Ukrainian forces were in the east. To destroy Ukraine's military capability, these are forces that have to be destroyed. That task is virtually finished.


That is just not true.

There were 20 Brigade in Ukrainian army before this war (Now probably somewhere between 30-36), only 6 of those are in Donbas (They are 53, 54, 92, 93 Mech Brigade + 56 motor brigade and 55 Artillery Battery)

This is the deposition of Ukrainian Armed Force before the war




The troop concentration is on North West, with 8 Brigade defending North/West Corridor.

Also, it still does not explain why Russia would use their main force to attack a Feign, as I said, that defeat the purpose of the Feign attacks.

And I wouldn't call it "Finished" because only 2 Brigade from the Ukrainian National Guard is in the fight with Russian in Mariupol, 10th and 18th (Which included the Azov Battalion) and a Marine Brigade, none of the main force were used and the line is still holding, if those Ukrainian force were "Finished" the Russian would have advance beyond the Demarcation Line.

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## khansaheeb

Wood said:


> IMO, Ukraine should have spent 10% or more of its GDP after 2014. Their intelligence agency should have been aware of Russian intentions already. Ukraine should have junked Soviet weaponry and have fully invested/trained in western hardware.
> 
> Countries that are under such immediate threat of much superior foe should prioritize their security interests above social welfare. Now even if Ukraine manages to keep its key cities, they are all damaged to dust


NATO's illtelligence services also failed or they stayed quite until it was too late. NATO had been doing a lot of exercises and Russia called their bluff by executing a real one. Looking at the quick deployment of weapons and propaganda it seems the trap for the demise of Russia was pre-planned.

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## jamal18

F-22Raptor said:


> 100% false. Ukraines military is nowhere near being destroyed. Not even close


In the East.


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## Apollon

khansaheeb said:


> NATO's illtelligence services also failed or they stayed quite until it was too late. NATO had been doing a lot of exercises and Russia called their bluff by executing a real one. Looking at the quick deployment of weapons and propaganda it seems the trap for the demise of Russia was pre-planned.



The question is who led putin to make such desastrous decissions? And it appears he has a mole in the inner circle, since all his plans get published in short time


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## Wood

khansaheeb said:


> NATO's illtelligence services also failed or they stayed quite until it was too late. NATO had been doing a lot of exercises and Russia called their bluff by executing a real one. Looking at the quick deployment of weapons and propaganda it seems the trap for _*the demise of Russia was pre-planned.*_


I don't buy the sinister notion that Russia (Putin) was trapped like a baby by big bully NATO. Forgive me 

If anything, the Europeans (especially Germany) had a foreign policy idea of peace through mutual trade dependence. It has now failed spectacularly.

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## letsrock

thetutle said:


> yes it was so good that people risked their life to get out. border guards shot on sight anyone trying to leave east Germany.
> 
> Its was poorer than Yugoslavia. In east Germany you had to wait 15 or 20 years to get a car from the day you ordered one.
> 
> My Bosnian parents and grandparents would go all over Eastern Europe on holidays and if you be so cheap and run down, it was like Americans going to Vietnam. Of course if anyone went to holidays to Hungary or east Germany the whole class wold laugh at you for going to such poor looser countries. such was the effect of Russian rule over these places.
> 
> Now that these people are free of Russians you can see the wealth and development they enjoy.
> 
> I remember ordinary Romanians could afford to eat meat once 1 week under Russian rule. Now, after russia is gone, they have salary 3 times that of russia.


yea ..nice story bruh. They were a few such things no doubt but you are vastly misrepresenting the issue. People who left east germany are white collars not poor or working men who were better off in a socialist country. And the reasons are obvious why they would go - just like engineers or surgeons queue up for us even from western european countries. us is the most highly capitalized and wages will be higher.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509171443996803073

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## jhungary

Fighting in Mariupol as per ISW







Not much of an actual gain since March 20


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## Apollon

letsrock said:


> yea ..nice story bruh. They were a few such things no doubt but you are vastly misrepresenting the issue. People who left east germany are white collars not poor or working men who were better off in a socialist country. And the reasons are obvious why they would go - just like engineers or surgeons queue up for us even from western european countries. us is the most highly capitalized and wages will be higher.




You talk only absolute bullshit. Its amazing.

Eastern Germany lost 1/6th of its population and had to wall itself and kill people to stop them running away. Nobody was well off in Eastern Germany. You got a crappy flat, could go nowhere and food was abysmal. 

The entire circus crashed because eastern germans finally wanted to be free of this bullshit. Western german relatives send choclate and other basic things that were impossible to get otherwise.

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## Viet

EasyNow said:


> I agree with all you've said but also nothing is written in stone. Germany will not become reliant on Russian gas again, but once the conflict is over and a friendly govt is in place, I believe gas will flow again at Germany's convenience.


The damage is done by Putin. Nobody in the west trusts him, even if he goes nobody trusts Russia. I am an optimistic person however be very hard to return to the days before the war.


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## letsrock

Apollon said:


> You talk only absolute bullshit. Its amazing.
> 
> Eastern Germany lost 1/6th of its population and had to wall itself and kill people to stop them running away. Nobody was well off in Eastern Germany. You got a crappy flat, could go nowhere and food was abysmal.
> 
> The entire circus crashed because eastern germans finally wanted to be free of this bullshit. Western german relatives send choclate and other basic things that were impossible to get otherwise.



Your rhetoric is as persuasive as uyghur massacre has been for arab and muslim countries.

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## Apollon

letsrock said:


> Your rhetoric is as persuasive as uyghur massacre has been for arab and muslim countries.



Millions went on the streets, ripped the wall and fences down and run to the west to at least get choclate and banana. That shows how great eastern germany was. 

A country that needs a wall to keep its people in, is shit. Its that simple. The germans are hard working and want always perfection. They despised that regime.


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## SuvarnaTeja

jamal18 said:


> The most significant Ukrainian forces were in the east. To destroy Ukraine's military capability, these are forces that have to be destroyed. That task is virtually finished.





F-22Raptor said:


> 100% false. Ukraines military is nowhere near being destroyed. Not even close




I think the Russian goal was de-Nazification of the Ukrainian Military.

So what % of Ukrainian Military was Nazified?

How much of that Nazified Military still exists?


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## UKBengali

gambit said:


> When this Russia-Ukraine war is over, the world's militaries will face only one source of their defense: the US. And not everyone will be in our favor. Russia's economy will be depressed for some yrs and that mean no or at best little progress for defense investments. For all those countries that relied on Russia for their defense hardware, as the jets and the tanks get worn down and parts get less and less available, their national defense will get weaker. China's defense industry is not par to the US, no matter how much China's MIC may tout its products, but countries that relied on Russia will have no choice but to buy Chinese, and they *WILL* get inferior products.
> 
> The result? Do not pissed US off because your military will be even less able to take on US now, not that your Russian hardware were as capable in the first place. The USAF is considering retiring a couple squadrons of F-22 to make budget and basing for the coming 6th gen fighter. Our airspace is anywhere we feel like it.





Apart from SAMS, Chinese products are now actually superior.


1. There is no fighter that Russia can sell that can match the J-10CE.

2. Chinese tanks are probably better than anything that Russia has bar the Armata which is not really in mass production yet.

3. In the naval area, Chinese ships are way ahead of the Russians.

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## letsrock

Apollon said:


> Millions went on the streets, ripped the wall and fences down and run to the west to at least get choclate and banana. That shows how great eastern germany was.
> 
> A country that needs a wall to keep its people in, is shit. Its that simple. The germans are hard working and want always perfection. They despised that regime.



lets first go back a little and see why this mini-thread of east germany started. it started because you loudly speculated if at all Russia ruled Germany then some hell scaped would result as if you were never aware of east Germany. I pointed out no need to speculate as something of the sort already happened - and there was no hell scape - Germans are PEACEFULLY united now.

Then you started going all crazy with gazillion Germans shot by east Germany authorities, tremendous walls bla bla. Mysteriously the same country allowed to be dissolved without a single shot being fired. The same country was a sporting champ, made prolific and some gems of movies and were on the side of resource poor workers against well capitalized entities.

Give it a break now.

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## Piotr

*Key Goals in Kiev and Chernigov Directions Have Been Accomplished, Russian MoD Says*

-Russia's Defence Ministry pointed out that Russia was conducting a planned redeployment of forces on Kiev and Chernigov directions, and that all goals there have been accomplished.
-The major goal of the redeployment is to start advancing more actively in key directions - first of all to complete the liberation of Donbass, the ministry added.
-On Wednesday, Russian Forces Destroy 69 Ukrainian Military Objects

https://sputniknews.com/20220330/li...ka-u-missile-on-lugansk---lpr-1094309880.html


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## jamal18

SuvarnaTeja said:


> I think the Russian goal was de-Nazification of the Ukrainian Military.
> 
> So what % of Ukrainian Military was Nazified?
> 
> How much of that Nazified Military still exists?


There was an announcement by the Russians that some marine brigade had been 'de-nazified'. I assume going through debriefing pow's.

'De-nazifying' the Ukraine is different. I assume that anti-nazi laws have to be promulgated in the Ukrainian legal system and enforced. That can only happen with a compliant Ukrainian government.

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## kingQamaR

letsrock said:


> yea ..nice story bruh. They were a few such things no doubt but you are vastly misrepresenting the issue. People who left east germany are white collars not poor or working men who were better off in a socialist country. And the reasons are obvious why they would go - just like engineers or surgeons queue up for us even from western european countries. us is the most highly capitalized and wages will be higher.



Under capitalism, you can work or be hungry. Under communism, you will work and be hungry


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## Piotr

Russian MoD: Kiev Regime Seriously Considered Using Bioweapons Against Russia, Donbass​3 hours ago

Ilya Tsukanov

The Russian military has spent weeks shedding light on research into deadly pathogens being conducted in *Ukrainian laboratories under the direction of the Pentagon and with US funding*. Washington initially denied the MoD's reporting as "Russian disinformation", but officials and media have since corroborated many of its assertions.
Ukrainian authorities seriously considered the possibility of using biological weapons against civilians in the Donbass and Russia, and the military will hold a special briefing on the matter, Russia's Ministry of Defence spokesman, Igor Konashenkov, has said.

"The facts which have been unearthed demonstrate that the Kiev regime seriously considered the possibility of using biological weapons against civilians in the Donbass and in the Russian Federation," Konashenkov said in a briefing on Wednesday.
The spokesman said the Russian military is continuing its analysis of documents received from employees of Ukraine-based biological laboratories, including the secret military biological activities being conducted in the country by the US.

"As a result of the analysis of new materials by experts from the Russian Radiological, Chemical and Biological Defence Troops, specific officials who were involved in the creation of components of biological weapons have been named. These include the heads of departments and employees at the US Defense Department, as well as its main contractor companies. As ongoing journalistic investigations in the western press show, these campaigns were directly connected to Hunter Biden, the son of the US president," Konashenkov said.
The MoD spokesman did not elaborate on when the new information would be made public. The Russian military has spent the past month slowly pulling back the curtain on the extent of US-funded research into dangerous pathogens in Ukraine-based labs. Last week, the MoD cited documents which implicated an investment firm connected to Hunter Biden in the financing of the military biological programme in Ukraine.

Western media initially rejected the Russian reports, with British newspaper, The Daily Mail, accusing the MoD of "ramping up a wild propaganda campaign" on bioweapons labs. However, analysis by the newspaper based on emails garnered from the laptop which Biden Jr left behind in a Delaware computer repair shop soon confirmed that the president's son "DID (sic) help secure millions in funding for [a] US contractor in Ukraine specialising in deadly pathogen research," and that the allegations made by Russia "may well be true".
A report by the New York Post, the same newspaper that first broke the Biden laptop story in the autumn of 2020, corroborated the Daily Mail's reporting on Hunter and the Ukrainian biolabs.
Pro-White House media has continued to defend the president amid mounting questions related to his family's activities in Ukraine, with the Washington Post releasing a "fact check" explainer suggesting that the labs alluded to were "biological research facilities focused on better detecting, diagnosing and monitoring infectious-disease outbreaks," not "bioweapons labs". Furthermore, the Post suggested that "random emails can be easily misinterpreted without additional reporting," and claimed, without evidence, that reports by its competitors were false.
Other outlets and media organisations, including the Daily Beast, NPR and Media Matters for America, have continued to dismiss the Russian MoD releases and western outlets' reporting as "crazy" "conspiracy theories," notwithstanding Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland's remarks in a Senate hearing earlier this month confirming that "biological research facilities" were operating in Ukraine, and that the US was "quite concerned" that "Russian troops...may be seeking to gain control of" the facilities and the "research materials" contained therein.






In a presentation on 6 March, the MoD published a letter by Ukrainian Health Minister Viktor Liashko dated 24 February (the same day the Russian military operation in Ukraine began) ordering the destruction of deadly pathogens scattered across Ukraine's network of biolabs.

https://sputniknews.com/20220330/ru...eapons-against-russia-donbass-1094332753.html

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## khansaheeb

Apollon said:


> Millions went on the streets, ripped the wall and fences down and run to the west to at least get choclate and banana. That shows how great eastern germany was.
> 
> A country that needs a wall to keep its people in, is shit. Its that simple. The germans are hard working and want always perfection. They despised that regime.


Germany was under occupation because of it's defeat in WW2, Don't try and put a spin on it. Germans caused the deaths of nearly 16 million Russians so Russians weren't going to treat them with Chocolates. China lost 20 Million dead to the Japanese in WW2.

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## jamal18

Interesting discussion on the effects of sanctions on Eurioe, and general economic factors.

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## Apollon

letsrock said:


> lets first go back a little and see why this mini-thread of east germany started. it started because you loudly speculated if at all Russia ruled Germany then some hell scaped would result as if you were never aware of east Germany. I pointed out no need to speculate as something of the sort already happened - and there was no hell scape - Germans are PEACEFULLY united now.
> 
> Then you started going all crazy with gazillion Germans shot by east Germany authorities, tremendous walls bla bla. Mysteriously the same country allowed to be dissolved without a single shot being fired. The same country was a sporting champ, made prolific and some gems of movies and were on the side of resource poor workers against well capitalized entities.
> 
> Give it a break now.




East Germany was hell. My father told ne what shit he went through as a kid. The entire nation was like a sad dystopia.

The country did not allow to dissolve, the leadership simply collapsed. The soldiers laughed in their face. Having a dumb construction worker as state leaer did not help either. 

My father wanted study at university and was not allowed to because political reasons, they put him as apprentice in a pathetic cheese factory. You know what he did? He blew their storage up by igniting chemical fertilizer. They did not know who it was. 

Thats how one deals with such shit regimes, destroy from inside what they hold dear. 

I would never submit under such a regime.



khansaheeb said:


> Germany was under occupation because of it's defeat in WW2, Don't try and put a spin on it. Germans caused the deaths of nearly 16 million Russians so Russians weren't going to treat them with Chocolates. China lost 20 Million dead to the Japanese in WW2.



Fun fact, as shitty as Eastern Germany was...it was still lightyears better than USSR by any standard. Shows that it is a cultural thing. No matter what circumstances, Germans always make best out of it.


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## zartosht

Our Iranian brothers the South Ossetians want to follow the donbass model and join Russia as well... Taking official steps to join Russia





__





Loading…






www.rt.com





If I were to guess about Russian plans: They want to landlock Ukraine, and link up with Transnistria. gobbling up as much Ukie territory as buffer as possible. 

Meanwhile Ukies are fapping to their propaganda videos, while their country shrinks by the day..... thats apparently "winning" in western books.. id hate to see what "losing" looks like ?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509239468494098438

Russian losses are now visually confirmed over 2,100

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## dBSPL

One of the participants in the peace talks in Istanbul was Abrahamovic. The Russian oligarch took part in the talks, although he was not one of the official representatives of the delegations. Abrahamovic sat next to Turkish Presidency spokesperson İbrahim Kalın during the talks. Abrahamovic appeared quite healthy, although some social media accounts claimed he was poisoned and taken to the hospital two days ago.


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## jamal18

zartosht said:


> Our Iranian brothers the South Ossetians want to follow the donbass model and join Russia as well... Taking official steps to join Russia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rt.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I were to guess about Russian plans: They want to landlock Ukraine, and link up with Transnistria. gobbling up as much Ukie territory as buffer as possible.
> 
> Meanwhile Ukies are fapping to their propaganda videos, while their country shrinks by the day..... thats apparently "winning" in western books.. id hate to see what "losing" looks like ?


There is a concerted effort by Western goverments and Media to portray Ukraine as winning.

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## oberschlesier

Ich said:


> No, not speculation. If you understand russian you can hear it here in an interview with Wladimir Tschischow. Alternativ you can translate the german short version text.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ständiger EU-Vertreter Russlands: Situation mit Gashahn noch nicht katastrophal
> 
> 
> Aus dem Interview im russischen Fernsehen: Der ständige Vertreter Russlands bei der EU Wladimir Tschischow über die Folgen der Umstellung au...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.russland.jetzt


No Gas stop on 31 of March.
As I have stated, speculation. Pretty predictable.





__





Kreml: Umstellung auf Rubel ist ein langwieriger Prozess


Kreml-Sprecher: Die Umstellung auf die Zahlung in Rubel für russisches Gas würde nicht am 31. März in Kraft treten, sondern stelle ein langw...




www.russland.jetzt




" ein langwieriger Prozess " -> "it`s a long process" -> Another speculation and a way out of the declaration 

Russian economy is relatively small and need Euro -> not a speculation

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509234221197537285

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## zartosht

Apollon said:


> East Germany was hell. My father told ne what shit he went through as a kid. The entire nation was like a sad dystopia.
> 
> The country did not allow to dissolve, the leadership simply collapsed. The soldiers laughed in their face. Having a dumb construction worker as state leaer did not help either.
> 
> My father wanted study at university and was not allowed to because political reasons, they put him as apprentice in a pathetic cheese factory. You know what he did*? He blew their storage up by igniting chemical fertilizer. They did not know who it was.*
> 
> Thats how one deals with such shit regimes, destroy from inside what they hold dear.
> 
> I would never submit under such a regime.
> 
> 
> 
> Fun fact, as shitty as Eastern Germany was...it was still lightyears better than USSR by any standard. Shows that it is a cultural thing. No matter what circumstances, Germans always make best out of it.



So your father was a terrorist?


in other news: 

Us ramps up imports of "banned" Russian oil . While lecturing Europe about the necessity of commiting economic suicide to stop Russia.



https://www.rt.com/business/553002-us-russia-oil-imports/



its gotten upto 150k barrels a day lately. They are going all out before the "ban" comes into effect april 21st....

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## Apollon

zartosht said:


> Our Iranian brothers the South Ossetians want to follow the donbass model and join Russia as well... Taking official steps to join Russia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rt.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I were to guess about Russian plans: They want to landlock Ukraine, and link up with Transnistria. gobbling up as much Ukie territory as buffer as possible.
> 
> Meanwhile Ukies are fapping to their propaganda videos, while their country shrinks by the day..... thats apparently "winning" in western books.. id hate to see what "losing" looks like ?



You know whats losing looks like. Ask Darius III. 😂🤣😂🤣😂

That said Putin completly felt down and promised german chancellor Scholz, that gas must not be paid in ruble. 









Kreml knickt ein: Putin gibt Scholz am Telefon Euro-Versprechen


Russlands Präsident Wladimir Putin hat Bundeskanzler Olaf Scholz (SPD) nach Angaben der Bundesregierung zugesichert, dass europäische Unternehmen ihre Rechnungen für russisches Gas weiterhin in Euro begleichen können.




www.focus.de

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## Wood

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509234221197537285


Them sweater sales will have to wait


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## jamal18

Major shift in Ukraine's negotiating position. Don't know if the US will allow this. The slightest beam of light towards peace.

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## Apollon

Wood said:


> Them sweater sales will have to wait




I wonder if anyone tells Putin how laughable he has become? Making empty threats and then chicken out. Does he believe anyone takes him serious anymore?

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## dBSPL

Half of the Russian army must be purged when this war is over.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508608029792608259

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## Wood

Apollon said:


> I wonder if anyone tells Putin how laughable he has become? Making empty threats and then chicken out. Does he believe anyone takes him serious anymore?









Canada Goose stock is down today because Putin chickened out

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## mmr

zartosht said:


> So your father was a terrorist?
> 
> 
> in other news:
> 
> Us ramps up imports of "banned" Russian oil . While lecturing Europe about the necessity of commiting economic suicide to stop Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.rt.com/business/553002-us-russia-oil-imports/
> 
> 
> 
> its gotten upto 150k barrels a day lately. They are going all out before the "ban" comes into effect april 21st....


150k is nothing lmao

Canada send 5 mil daily and thats like 5 percent of what usa consume daily. 150k is not even 1 percent of the demand.


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## Ich

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509234221197537285



So Germany change Euros in Rubles at the gazprom bank and then Gazprom get payed in Rubles for gas. In short: Germany pays russian gas in Rubles.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509234221197537285


As soon as payment is made to Gazprom Bank in Euros, it is immediately converted to Rubble. This means Russia will not be holding Euros. That way, its gas supplies to Europe continue, and they get their money back without holding any of the Euros. Well, the EU will have no choice but to make sure the Gazprom Bank is not sanctioned. 

This is a compromise between Scholz and Putin. They're beating the sanctions while they're continuing their trade. That is what should be understood from this compromise.

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## Apollon

Ich said:


> So Germany change Euros in Rubles at the gazprom bank and then Gazprom get payed in Rubles for gas. In short: Germany pays russian gas in Rubles.



As usual you understand nothing.

Germany pays Euro like it has always done. What gazprom bank does later is none concern. 

In short Germany pays Euro like before.


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## oberschlesier

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> As soon as payment is made to Gazprom Bank in Euros, it is immediately converted to Euros. This means Russia will not be holding Euros. That way, its gas supplies in Europe continues, and they get their money back without holding any of the Euros. Well, the EU will have no choice but to make sure the Gazprom Bank is not sanctioned.
> 
> This is a compromise between Scholz and Putin. They're beating the sanctions while they're continuing their trade. That is what should be understood from this compromise.


Before the "You have to pay in ruble" special operation. Gazprom needed to exchange 80% of their euro into ruble, so de facto nothing has changed. 

btw. Officialy, Rubel is kinda pagged now to Gold with a target exchange rate of ~ 81

I have to agree the from a ecnomic point of view the people in Russian goverment are not so stupid. When they emigrate, Goldman Sachs will probably hire them

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## Viet

Apollon said:


> The question is who led putin to make such desastrous decissions? And it appears he has a mole in the inner circle, since all his plans get published in short time


Putin’s inner circle is his comrades from the KGB. He distrusts everybody he keeps them in distance. Lavrov, the foreign minister, has no say, is just a coolie. In German: ein Wasserträger. That said virtually the Ukraine foreign minister.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509077839504629762

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## dBSPL

It's become a daily now and it doesn't give off the excitement it used to be, I know, but... Russian Mi-8 wreckage near Kharkiv

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## PakFactor

dBSPL said:


> Half of the Russian army must be purged when this war is over.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508608029792608259



I'm sure after watching this video the Pakistani nation is looking at the Indian border cause they were blowing themselves up when they tried to build up after the Mumbai Bombing & Parliament attack.

Apple doesn't fall far from the tree.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509077839504629762

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509240875452407812

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509095889486372865

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## mmr

Type59 said:


> Posts like this make me think.
> 
> If you out bid other nations for Australian coal then other nations will buy from Russia because Germany is paying a premium for Aussie coal.
> 
> If every nation sanctioned Russia then won't be enough coal, gas and oil for everyone. Companies in China and India will have access to cheaper hence become more competitive then German ones.


Cheap energy cant be the only thing that will make india or china competitive. Germany normally sells premium products. U telling me ppl will buy tata lol instead of bmw because indians getting some cheap Russian oil.

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## TNT

kingQamaR said:


> How's the Russian economy going Russian Trolls on here haha
> 
> Be honest russian trolls have RT news detailed all the sanctions by the EU, USA, Swiss!!!! (Yes even the Swiss have sanctioned russian assets) and UK etc detailing the Multimillion boats, villas, cash and assets frozen by the west? Come I bet they wouldnt dare publish a full list of trillions of US dollars worth of assets!
> 
> China seen how quickly the Sanctions on Russia bit in. China has not worked so hard to be the supplier to the world, to lose everything overnight due to Sanctions on them. They need the West more than Russia. On balance, China couldn't support Russia.
> 
> India haha if india doesnt do it, cancel 1,000 visas for starters



Says a brown western cheerleader troll. Since page 1 u been killing ur throat and cheerleading ur western masters. Its not easy to just take away wealth of russia. In return russia will confiscate any western assets in russia, they will also not pay their debt, which is higher than their assets that are frozen or confiscated. 
I am waiting for the day when Pakistan goes full anti west and ppl like u come in the open and cheerlead for ur western masters.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

oberschlesier said:


> Before the "You have to pay in ruble" special operation. Gazprom needed to exchange 80% of their euro into ruble, so de facto nothing has changed.
> 
> btw. Officialy, Rubel is kinda pagged now to Gold with a target exchange rate of ~ 81
> 
> I have to agree the from a ecnomic point of view the people in Russian goverment are not so stupid. When they emigrate, Goldman Sachs will probably hire them



I don't think you understand what is being agreed here. This agreement also protects Gazprombank from sanctions, if Europe wants to keep the gas flowing from sanctions. The EU will have to make sure that they protect Gazprombank from sanctions.

Remember the Rubble is now tied to the gold, so any exchange rate will depend upon the gold standard. Another way that Putin is inflicting pain on the fiat money while EU is continuing the trade with Russia.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509110021287784449



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509240875452407812
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509095889486372865



Nobody believes these stories any more. Bring proof or it is just a rehashed propaganda.

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## letsrock

Apollon said:


> East Germany was hell. My father told ne what shit he went through as a kid. The entire nation was like a sad dystopia.
> 
> The country did not allow to dissolve, the leadership simply collapsed. The soldiers laughed in their face. Having a dumb construction worker as state leaer did not help either.
> 
> My father wanted study at university and was not allowed to because political reasons, they put him as apprentice in a pathetic cheese factory. You know what he did? He blew their storage up by igniting chemical fertilizer. They did not know who it was.
> 
> Thats how one deals with such shit regimes, destroy from inside what they hold dear.
> 
> I would never submit under such a regime.



Not your father again. I am happy to talk to him directly but not like this. Your fascist way of thinking is evident "dumb construction worker".

Yea your father was an arsonist - so what? aren't there arsonists in other countries?.

BTW it wasn't one way migration, Between 1951-55 almost 300,000 germans migrated from west to east. Look east Germany was poor to begin with, on top of it it had to face relentless hostility in the name of cold war. And second - by definition they are standing for the weak and poor - so it takes a lot more nurturing. Considering all this it they did pretty well. Definitely not what you are portraying. There are thousands of germans right now who long for what east offered. You can dismiss them as old or whatever.



> Fun fact, as shitty as Eastern Germany was...it was still lightyears better than USSR by any standard. Shows that it is a cultural thing. No matter what circumstances, Germans always make best out of it.



Yea right "light years ahead" - that's why they lost the war to USSR and had their country ripped in to two.
BTW if its cultural - how come east germans continue to be significantly poor than west germans even 30 years after unification ?

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## The SC

No one knows how the Russians think and plan. Churchill said before: It is a mystery within a mystery within a mystery..

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## khansaheeb

Apollon said:


> East Germany was hell. My father told ne what shit he went through as a kid. The entire nation was like a sad dystopia.
> 
> The country did not allow to dissolve, the leadership simply collapsed. The soldiers laughed in their face. Having a dumb construction worker as state leaer did not help either.
> 
> My father wanted study at university and was not allowed to because political reasons, they put him as apprentice in a pathetic cheese factory. You know what he did? He blew their storage up by igniting chemical fertilizer. They did not know who it was.
> 
> Thats how one deals with such shit regimes, destroy from inside what they hold dear.
> 
> I would never submit under such a regime.
> 
> 
> 
> Fun fact, as shitty as Eastern Germany was...it was still lightyears better than USSR by any standard. Shows that it is a cultural thing. No matter what circumstances, Germans always make best out of it.


I visited Berlin in 2009 and went to see Checkpoint Charlie , took some photos with the guys in uniform there and looked across to the "otherside". I looked at the West side and then the East side and was gob smacked as to the difference even well after the Unification of Germany. The Eastside roads were dirty, with graffiti on walls , run down apartment blocks with clothes being dried from the balconies, police buses parked on the streets , and the West side was clean and shiny with trams and spacious well laid out shops and roads.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

oberschlesier said:


> Before the "You have to pay in ruble" special operation. Gazprom needed to exchange 80% of their euro into ruble, so de facto nothing has changed.
> 
> btw. Officialy, Rubel is kinda pagged now to Gold with a target exchange rate of ~ 81
> 
> I have to agree the from a ecnomic point of view the people in Russian goverment are not so stupid. When they emigrate, Goldman Sachs will probably hire them



Having your currency tied to the gold means you don't hold the "fraudulent" fiat money. It doesn't matter how much they can exchange between the Rubble and Gold now. Putin and Russians are playing the long game of making sure the gold standard is accepted, while they beat the sanctions and protect their interest. 

Some of the EU states are having separate discussions with the Russians. As you can see Chancellor Scholtz is already looking out what is good for Germany and how they can bypass the unilateral sanctions from the West against Russia. If anything, we can see the cracks opening up between the coalition that was supposed to sanction Russia.


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## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Nobody believes these stories any more. Bring proof or it is just a rehashed propaganda.










Like man 90% of your twetts are not tru so 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502261995718037507

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509260074014973955

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## Hassan Al-Somal

bobo6661 said:


> View attachment 828754
> 
> 
> 
> Like man 90% of your twetts are not tru so
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502261995718037507
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509260074014973955



Unlike you, I use official sources. 👇👇


*MoD Russia, [3/30/2022 4:00 PM]*
🗓 Top News Today

▫️All the main tasks of the Russian Armed Forces in Kiev and Chernigov directions have been completed. The objective of the regrouping of the Russian Armed Forces is to intensify action in priority areas and, above all, to complete the operation for the total liberation of Donbass.

▫️ The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, developing an offensive, have broken through the heavily fortified defences of the enemy, crossed the Shaitanka River and are fighting with units of the 53rd Mechanised Brigade on the approaches to Velikaya Novoselka.

❗️Kiev regime uses places of worship and any other places of public worship as collection and transfer points for weapons and Nazis to take part in hostilities.

☣️ Kiev regime was seriously considering the use of biological weapons against the population of Donbass, and the Russian Federation.

📹 The Russian Defence Ministry has published footage of destroyed Ukrainian S-300 position, footage of the destruction of UJ-22 Airborne drone by Pantsir missile system and work of Orlan-10 multi-functional unmanned aerial vehicle crews against Ukrainian nationalists.

🚛 14 humanitarian actions are being held in the Donetsk and Lugansk people's republics, Kiev and Kherson regions, during which 308 tons of basic necessities and food are being transferred to the population.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine
@mod_russia_en

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## dBSPL

When CNN-Fox etc reporters could not get any results from the first wave of unfounded S-400 allegations, they started to agitate.

"How dificult is it to look into President Zelensky's eyes and saying, no we wont send you S-400?" That is hilarious.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509181440860246021
Ibrahim Kalin briefly summarizes Turkey's position, listen carefully.

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## Vergennes

bobo6661 said:


> View attachment 828754
> 
> 
> 
> Like man 90% of your twetts are not tru so
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502261995718037507
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509260074014973955



His tears are delicious

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## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Unlike you, I use official sources. 👇👇


That are pure propaganda and you need to be blind to not see it  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509083205328060419
Here offical source to

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## letsrock

khansaheeb said:


> I visited Berlin in 2009 and went to see Checkpoint Charlie , took some photos with the guys in uniform there and looked across to the "otherside". I looked at the West side and then the East side and was gob smacked as to the difference even well after the Unification of Germany. The Eastside roads were dirty, with graffiti on walls , run down apartment blocks with clothes being dried from the balconies, police buses parked on the streets , and the West side was clean and shiny with trams and spacious well laid out shops and roads.



The west side you were referring to was always a small enclave surrounded completely by east Germany. It was well maintained before too as it was a small area with lot of diplomatic and military presence. The fact that soviet allowed this little enclave on basis of some legal arguments despite being victors shows they weren't some monsters as portrayed.

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## Wood

dBSPL said:


> When CNN-Fox etc reporters could not get any results from the first wave of unfounded S-400 allegations, they started to agitate.
> 
> "How dificult is it to look into President Zelensky's eyes and saying, no we wont send you S-400?" That is hilarious.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509181440860246021
> Ibrahim Kalin briefly summarizes Turkey's position, listen carefully.


It makes absolutely no sense to ask Turkey to supply the S-400 to Ukraine. If Turkey does that, then it would be the worst defense customer in the world.

No country should be expected to do this

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509261640499408901

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> His tears are delicious




MoD Russia, [3/30/2022 3:53 AM]
🇷🇺🇺🇦Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry 

▫️The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine.

▫️High-precision air-based missiles have destroyed large fuel depots in Starokostantinov and Khmelnitskii districts from which fuel had been supplied to Ukrainian forces' armoured vehicles in Donbass.

▫️Iskander operational and tactical missile system has destroyed 2 large missile and artillery weapons depots in Kamenka, Donetsk Region.

▫️During an aerial battle, 1 Ukrainian Air Force Su-24 has been shot down near Tumen, Roven Region, near the Ukrainian-Belarusian border.

▫️Air defenсe means of the Russian Aerospace Forces shot down 10 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles near Izyum, Novaya Kakhovka, Donetsk, Nikolaev, Berdyansk, Gorlovka, Lugansk and Rubezhnoe. 

✈️ 💥During the day, operational-tactical aviation and missile troops hit 64 military assets of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Among them: 4 command posts, including the headquarters of the Ukrainian special operations forces near Bereznigovatoe, Nikolaev region, 3 anti–aircraft missile systems - 1 S–300 near Malin cuty, Zhitomir region and 2 Buk-M1 near Ugledar and Slavyansk. 3 multiple launch rocket systems, 2 artillery batteries and 49 areas of concentration of weapons and military equipment and strongholds of the Ukrainian Armed Forces were also destroyed.

💥In total, 124 aircfaft and 77 helicopters, 214 unmanned aerial vehicles, 321 unmanned aerial vehicles, 1,752 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 184 multiple launch rocket systems, 734 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,640 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.

❗️The Russian Defence Ministry has already repeatedly exposed the cynical lies used by the Kiev nationalist regime to maintain its power in Ukraine and mislead the international community.

▫️On March 20, for example, President Zelensky, in a video address to the Israeli Knesset, accused Russia of allegedly targeting Uman city in Cherkasy region.

▫️To enhance the dramatic effect, Zelensky stated, and I quote, "this is a place visited by tens of thousands of Israelis every year for the pilgrimage of Tzaddik Nachman."

▫️I would like to stress that during the special military operation, the Russian Armed Forces do not strike civilian objects. All the more so when it comes to places of worship and any other places of public worship.

▫️It is the Kiev regime, in violation of international humanitarian law and simply moral norms, that uses such facilities as collection and transfer points for weapons and Nazis to take part in hostilities.

▫️Today we present evidence received from a member of the Uman Jewish community of the use by the Zelensky regime for this purpose of the building of the new city synagogue, located at Shosseiny Lane 1.

▫️Photographs taken on March 21, the day after Zelensky's speech to the Knesset, show the formation of two columns of nationalists on the synagogue grounds.

▫️I would like to point out that the property, weapons and ammunition stored in the synagogue building were first loaded by the nationalists into the backs of dump trucks and then disguised as bags of building rubbish.

▫️At the same time, buses painted as school vehicles with appropriate "Children" signs are being used to transport nationalists and foreign mercenaries from western regions of Ukraine, as can be clearly seen in the photos. 

▫️Thus, the building of the Jewish cult in Uman is being deliberately used by the Kiev nationalist regime for military purposes. To provoke conflict and political pressure on Russia by Jewish religious organisations in the event of a strike on it.

#Russia #Ukraine #Briefing 
@mod_russia_en

MoD Russia, [3/30/2022 2:31 PM]
[ Photo ]
🇷🇺🇺🇦Statement of the Joint Coordination Headquarters for Humanitarian Response in Ukraine (March 30, 2022)

📑 Full text (https://telegra.ph/Statement-of-the...arian-Response-in-Ukraine-March-30-2022-03-30)

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #HumanitarianResponse #HumanitarianAid 
@mod_russia_en

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## Foinikas

jhungary said:


> The problem of the Russian tank is their autoloader, which means rounds and charges (they use them separately instead of the one single thing like we do in western tank) Which mean their powder is on the floor and just about everywhere, and we took advantage on that and a penetrating hit would mean it will cook off those charges, which is why you seldom see the turret get separated form the hull when a western tank got destroyed, but you see that a lot in a Russian tank.


That is a problem,yes. A very big problem actually. But there are also Western tanks that have part of their ammo stored in the floor,for example the Leopard 2. 

When I saw the crazy losses of the Turkish Leopard 2A4s in Syria I was shocked. Because we also have the same model too. 

Of course weapons like the Javelin and the NLAW are changing the battlefield. 

The upgraded T-72s in Ukraine have great armor,they are very tough on the frontal and sometimes side armor,but they are usually destroyed from the top and sides or by heavy artillery. All the modern ERA and armor upgrade is useless if they are hit from the top or destroyed by a mine or IED.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508871698518523907

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509094607556161536
***

French media | Contrepoints | Turkey replaces France.

"It is tragic for Europe that France and the so-called liberal democracies are now replaced by an illiberal regime like Turkey in terms of diplomacy and mediation."









Médiation Russie-Ukraine : la Turquie remplace la France


Avec les pourparlers Russie-Ukraine, la Turquie d’Erdogan prend la place de médiateur de la France en matière de crises internationales.




www.contrepoints.org





"The talks between Ukraine and Russia were held in Istanbul. Turkey became a de facto mediator in this European conflict. We can be happy to see the two warring sides discuss and use diplomatic avenues. However, we can also regret the loss of diplomatic influence of France and EU countries."
(...)
"The Turkish economy has strong relations to the Russian economy, for example, in terms of tourism or hydrocarbons. Erdogan has also grown closer to Zelensky, since Ukranian president came to power. Turkey provided Ukraine with Bayraktar UAVs currently used in conflict."
(...)
"This pendulum game gives influence to Turkey and allows Turkey to become more than ever a political, economic and civilizational crossroads, enabling the Turkish leadership to gain and maintain the confidence of its Ukrainian and Russian counterparts."
(...)
"Putin also met with Erdogan a few days after the start of the conflict(...) It is not surprising that Turkey serves as a place of discussion and reconciliation."
(...)
"The example of Turkey shows that it is possible being a NATO member and to establish strong relations with warring countries such as Ukraine and Russia, same time."
(...)
"In fact, France had long occupied this mediation position. But now Turkey is taking the place of France."

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## Ali_Baba

dBSPL said:


> When CNN-Fox etc reporters could not get any results from the first wave of unfounded S-400 allegations, they started to agitate.
> 
> "How dificult is it to look into President Zelensky's eyes and saying, no we wont send you S-400?" That is hilarious.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509181440860246021
> Ibrahim Kalin briefly summarizes Turkey's position, listen carefully.



agree - he should have directly mentioned failure of NATO countries to deliver Mig29s to be more specific.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509274348963741707

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509274678023573510

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## tower9

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508871698518523907
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509094607556161536
> ***
> 
> French media | Contrepoints | Turkey replaces France.
> 
> "It is tragic for Europe that France and the so-called liberal democracies are now replaced by an illiberal regime like Turkey in terms of diplomacy and mediation."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Médiation Russie-Ukraine : la Turquie remplace la France
> 
> 
> Avec les pourparlers Russie-Ukraine, la Turquie d’Erdogan prend la place de médiateur de la France en matière de crises internationales.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.contrepoints.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The talks between Ukraine and Russia were held in Istanbul. Turkey became a de facto mediator in this European conflict. We can be happy to see the two warring sides discuss and use diplomatic avenues. However, we can also regret the loss of diplomatic influence of France and EU countries."
> (...)
> "The Turkish economy has strong relations to the Russian economy, for example, in terms of tourism or hydrocarbons. Erdogan has also grown closer to Zelensky, since Ukranian president came to power. Turkey provided Ukraine with Bayraktar UAVs currently used in conflict."
> (...)
> "This pendulum game gives influence to Turkey and allows Turkey to become more than ever a political, economic and civilizational crossroads, enabling the Turkish leadership to gain and maintain the confidence of its Ukrainian and Russian counterparts."
> (...)
> "Putin also met with Erdogan a few days after the start of the conflict(...) It is not surprising that Turkey serves as a place of discussion and reconciliation."
> (...)
> "The example of Turkey shows that it is possible being a NATO member and to establish strong relations with warring countries such as Ukraine and Russia, same time."
> (...)
> "In fact, France had long occupied this mediation position. But now Turkey is taking the place of France."


The US doesn’t want peace in Ukraine and never did. The US deep state wants Ukraine to be the Vietnam of Russia and to heighten hostilities between Europe and Russia.

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## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509274348963741707
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509274678023573510


And i also own the moon.

Seriously this propaganda warfare both sides are doing is funny as hell 😂


----------



## gambit

tower9 said:


> The *US doesn’t want peace in Ukraine* and never did. The US deep state wants Ukraine to be the Vietnam of Russia and to heighten hostilities between Europe and Russia.


Then your China is equally guilty because Xing told Poutine not to invade until after the Olympics.


----------



## Paul2

gambit said:


> Then your China is equally guilty because Xing told Poutine not to invade until after the Olympics.



Reading minds in the White House now:

"Putin is only a lieutenant, his mishap might be a trick. We can only wait for China's surprise attack"

Few acknowledge the glaringly obvious thing: "Russia getting wreckecked, and off the table for 3-4 years actually frees hands to Beijing big time."

Russia will certainly not collapse in just 4 years, and will now be ready to eat from our hands, completely forgetting of their ambitions for Asia. On other hand, Americans, Europeans will be totally preoccupied with them for even longer, and they will be drained of money to spend on the Far East.

I do not preclude somebody pushing Xi to quietly trip Putin, an excellent trade.

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## Type59

dBSPL said:


> Half of the Russian army must be purged when this war is over.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508608029792608259



Previously this was said to be Ukrainian. Both sides are engaging in propaganda.


----------



## LeGenD

One Of Russia’s Newest Air Defense Systems Has Been Captured In Ukraine


Ukrainian and foreign intelligence agencies could glean much from captured Russian Barnaul-T air defense radar and command post vehicles.




www.thedrive.com

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509277624106946567

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509278576960544769


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## kingQamaR

TNT said:


> Says a brown western cheerleader troll. Since page 1 u been killing ur throat and cheerleading ur western masters. Its not easy to just take away wealth of russia. In return russia will confiscate any western assets in russia, they will also not pay their debt, which is higher than their assets that are frozen or confiscated.
> I am waiting for the day when Pakistan goes full anti west and ppl like u come in the open and cheerlead for ur western masters.



An utterly banal and stupid comment is full of garbage . Why you a Pakistani crying so much over a European land war its got nothing to do with you for your dictators Putin is he your messiah or something to do what For you ? These Russians hate you Muslims so do Ukrainian and Pakistanis here are prostrating themselves if anyone needs to look in the mirror it’s you!

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509277843628466180

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509261390640521221

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509069801796345857

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508931354431533062

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508901476546002946


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508780401556344836

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508586778348953601

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508566307280769027


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## Vergennes

What was found on a russian soldier killed. an army of drunks and looters


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509272499275669504
Russian soldiers hidding in destroyed house basement


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509262543923068934


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509254420755795977


----------



## oberschlesier

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I don't think you understand what is being agreed here. This agreement also protects Gazprombank from sanctions, if Europe wants to keep the gas flowing from sanctions. The EU will have to make sure that they protect Gazprombank from sanctions.
> 
> Remember the Rubble is now tied to the gold, so any exchange rate will depend upon the gold standard. Another way that Putin is inflicting pain on the fiat money while EU is continuing the trade with Russia.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509110021287784449
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody believes these stories any more. Bring proof or it is just a rehashed propaganda.


Nothing changed. Gazprombank was not saction before, exactly to trade energy with Russia. It takes time to lower energy dependency on Russia, but this will happen.

Gold standard ? Rather stabilisation of the OFFICIAL exchange rate, it won`t be sustainable in the long run, you will just simply run out of gold, but it does cushion the shock, for now.

Generally stronger ruble does not bring you much, if you cannot buy aircraft parts or software for your economy

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509234350520479752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509137655421968385

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509179506359255053


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## oberschlesier

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Having your currency tied to the gold means you don't hold the "fraudulent" fiat money. It doesn't matter how much they can exchange between the Rubble and Gold now. Putin and Russians are playing the long game of making sure the gold standard is accepted, while they beat the sanctions and protect their interest.
> 
> Some of the EU states are having separate discussions with the Russians. As you can see Chancellor Scholtz is already looking out what is good for Germany and how they can bypass the unilateral sanctions from the West against Russia. If anything, we can see the cracks opening up between the coalition that was supposed to sanction Russia.


Gold does stabilize, but it won`t do a major currency out of the Ruble. Technology and Know-how makes you strong in modern world.

Scholtz just forced Putin to further accept payment for Gas in Euro/USD which was the line of the G7, so where is the baypass ? There was no embargo on Gas or Oil, just plans and gradual actions to shift the source. The gold / gas actions are just desperate means of defence.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509293826535473155

Reactions: Love Love:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509129633027051525

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509238801499045894

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509130941809188864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509140826924158979

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1 | Sad Sad:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509070357101268993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509255092385587202

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509257094872113158

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509230862927290370


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## oberschlesier

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509129633027051525
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509238801499045894
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509130941809188864
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509140826924158979


COVID  not Russia


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508791331954601994


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509220528267141125

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509131559537979399
Wherever we defend Ukraine, our landscapes are everywhere! And for the enemy - our rage and ammunition!

We continue to fight! 🇺🇦


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509057732090945540


oberschlesier said:


> COVID  not Russia








Covid was bad ..and this war worsens the situation all over Europe and the rest of the world..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509231765138857992


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509101251576963077

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> What was found on a russian soldier killed. an army of drunks and looters
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509272499275669504
> Russian soldiers hidding in destroyed house basement
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509262543923068934



Gibberish.....


----------



## The SC

Norway handed over a new batch of anti-tank weapons to Ukraine

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509149295953461252
Under his leadership, our army is strengthening Ukraine's negotiating position every minute. General Valery Zaluzhny.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509238117848522752


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509281273101144075


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509167228066877454

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509224135301513216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509157134021369857


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509279202201247752

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Vergennes

The Associated Press reports testimony from a US government source that tends to confirm a hypothesis that was already widely circulated, namely that Putin's advisers deliberately presented him with a glorified picture of how the Russian invasion was unfolding (not only before the outbreak of the conflict but also after the start of the invasion). 

For example, Putin was unaware that the military had sent conscripts to Ukraine and that they suffered casualties there. Where it becomes interesting is that Putin is aware of the phenomenon, which causes strong tensions between him and the military high hierarchy. 

Nevertheless, his vision of things remains distanced from reality insofar as he would still not have realized (or, more correctly, has not been explained to him) the extent of Western economic sanctions and the effect that they are sure to have in the long run. 

The AP source explains this state of affairs by the fear of Putin's subordinates to bring him bad news as well as Putin's growing tendency to refer only to a very small number of people before making a decision.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509288515296706574

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509274518686212105

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509240857874030594

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509256308243025928

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509231661795393548

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509239283688824845
https://www.reuters.com/business/en...-potential-gas-supply-disruptions-2022-03-30/


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509240747081543700

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509229697493880832


----------



## Vergennes

kadyrov's lapdogs are fcking clowns


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509276619202043906


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509264777826258945


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509183066006249476

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509182759243239437

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509055186886705158

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509049531501105153


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## mmr

Vergennes said:


> kadyrov's lapdogs are fcking clowns
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509276619202043906


Fucking morons.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> kadyrov's lapdogs are fcking clowns
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509276619202043906




But they're kicking arse in Mariupol.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509194414564032516

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509318123505205251

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509316451471085576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509310836283744263

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509276948203139076

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## mmr

kingQamaR said:


> An utterly banal and stupid comment is full of garbage . Why you a Pakistani crying so much over a European land war its got nothing to do with you for your dictators Putin is he your messiah or something to do what For you ? These Russians hate you Muslims so do Ukrainian and Pakistanis here are prostrating themselves if anyone needs to look in the mirror it’s you!


We have the right to support who ever we feel like. Personal attacks was not needed. I remember some indian dude keep tagging me because i am pro west. As per that dude every brown guy has to support puter.

I tell u what. Russians are same racist as Ukrainian. At the end average Russian will be far nicer to a average Ukrainian then they will be to a African black dude or a brown guy. These ppl should go to Russia and see them self.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509271677124886536

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1 | Wow Wow:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509304336735686660

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509261990308552712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509247864530259968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509243608209272833


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509242682266243077

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509238908286119940

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509219828963450887

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509178130199724039


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509127991191818241

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509120856978513927

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508993878728351745

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## jhungary

Foinikas said:


> That is a problem,yes. A very big problem actually. But there are also Western tanks that have part of their ammo stored in the floor,for example the Leopard 2.
> 
> When I saw the crazy losses of the Turkish Leopard 2A4s in Syria I was shocked. Because we also have the same model too.
> 
> Of course weapons like the Javelin and the NLAW are changing the battlefield.
> 
> The upgraded T-72s in Ukraine have great armor,they are very tough on the frontal and sometimes side armor,but they are usually destroyed from the top and sides or by heavy artillery. All the modern ERA and armor upgrade is useless if they are hit from the top or destroyed by a mine or IED.


Putting ammo on the floor is necessary if you are using Autoloader, well, it actually not but it would be a lot more convenience to put ammo on the floor because you don't have anywhere to store the ammo like "The vault" in an Abrams. Which means if you want to change ammo type quickly, you need to be able to access it quickly, and that mean you will need to have them on ready all the time, and the only place to do so is on the floor.

Leopard 2 have places to store ammo (I don't know about 2A4, I had been on a Swedish Stridsvagn 122 (Not sure is that is a 2A5 or 2A6) putting rounds on the floor is probably a bad practices, as you don't really need to do it on a Leopard, but I do know people who do that (Even in an Abram) because sometime you wanted a round to be accessible quickly or sometime you change your mind and needed another round and you just discarded the round already loaded on the floor, this is against practices tho. I don't personally do that, but I know people who does. 

On the other hand, I have saw quite a few Turkish destroyed 2A4 (Quoted a few below)

Most of them are what we called "Soft to Hard" kill, which mean the tanks was disabled by either an ATGM or AT artillery round, and then hard killed by striking the weak point of the tank.

Bear in mind, 2A4 was the earlier model, largely unmodified for counter ATGM, the design of 2A4 is for the eventual tank to tank combat between Europe and Russia. It lacked a lot of soft kill protection or AT protection that modern tank have.

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## 8888888888888

Ali_Baba said:


> Good video on the "Nazi's" battalions and how only 1,000 Nazis has got Putin so "hot and bothered"... so - basically all Russian/Kremlin propaganda as the Azov's are materially a non-issue .......


Another Youtuber making money using censored details from the west.


----------



## Wood




----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509147903910158338

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508872808721485832

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## FuturePAF

Bayraktar song now in English


----------



## 8888888888888

RescueRanger said:


> It’s not just a thousand we’ve talked about this, the figure is much smaller than some pro Russians push out but it’s not “1000”.
> 
> That said using the pretext of “denazification” is lame and was exposed early on as a thinly veiled farce by Russia as a pretext of an invasion of a peaceful country.


Actually the neo Nazis in Ukraine are doing the same thing as Indian Hindu nationalists are doing, force conversions to the Muslims in Kashmir or other parts of India using any means including torture to convert them to the correct Indian culture or disppear them if they do not.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509331283654045702


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508762342062006272

Reactions: Love Love:
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## 8888888888888

Ich said:


> So Germany change Euros in Rubles at the gazprom bank and then Gazprom get payed in Rubles for gas. In short: Germany pays russian gas in Rubles.


So German back down in the End.



bobo6661 said:


> That are pure propaganda and you need to be blind to not see it
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509083205328060419
> Here offical source to


The number of troops loses are fictional so the others are probably not correct as well

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509192565391872002

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509244430049497095

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509081682451775490

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509022582615457794


----------



## dBSPL

Foinikas said:


> That is a problem,yes. A very big problem actually. But there are also Western tanks that have part of their ammo stored in the floor,for example the Leopard 2.
> 
> When I saw the crazy losses of the Turkish Leopard 2A4s in Syria I was shocked. Because we also have the same model too.
> 
> Of course weapons like the Javelin and the NLAW are changing the battlefield.
> 
> The upgraded T-72s in Ukraine have great armor,they are very tough on the frontal and sometimes side armor,but they are usually destroyed from the top and sides or by heavy artillery. All the modern ERA and armor upgrade is useless if they are hit from the top or destroyed by a mine or IED.


More than 10 tanks were hit in the Euphrates Shield, half of which were permanently out of service. There was also the loss of personnel. But tank losses in other operations are very limited. Aselsan's modernization of tanks without pulling them into factories was effective in this. If you are talking about the excel spreadsheet that Bahçeşehir college owner and CHP member Hurşit Çetin gave to the press during Euphrates Shield OP, you should know that this was a psyop work aimed at raising the opposition to war in society.

During the each day of first 4 weeks of the war, Russia lost armoured vehicles that well beyond the total number of armored vehicles TAF lost in 3 cross-border operations. Until last week, Russia's confirmed (only with visual evidance) daily average MBT loss was around 13-15. Of course, there are not only neutralized tanks here, but also abandoned due to logistical problems or other reasons.

While there are CM-upgraded many of tanks that fought in residential areas in Turkey's last operation, the lack of a proper countermeasure system in almost all of the Russian tanks is the main reason for the excess of these losses. The other main issue concerns the way they use tanks in troop operations.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509214381170733065

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509079860974698500


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509191946987884551

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509256909244747789


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509255021950652417

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509304348316155909

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509300914884161537

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509306670714863623

Reactions: Like Like:
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## A1Kaid

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/30/ukraine-mariupol-russia-evacuation-filtration/











Russia transfers thousands of Mariupol civilians to its territory


Ukraine condemns Russia's alleged "deportation" of many civilians from devastated Mariupol.



www.bbc.com





I guess Russia has found a solution to its population decline.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509324887529246727


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509306364371296257

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509305890729570305

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509297991043137543


----------



## PakFactor

A1Kaid said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/30/ukraine-mariupol-russia-evacuation-filtration/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia transfers thousands of Mariupol civilians to its territory
> 
> 
> Ukraine condemns Russia's alleged "deportation" of many civilians from devastated Mariupol.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess Russia has found a solution to its population decline.



Lol. Gave me a good laugh and side pain.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509287476061474819


----------



## PakFactor

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509287476061474819



I think that’s Russian has a V on the burned white truck door

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509284353506951172

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509286297948594176


----------



## 8888888888888



Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

PakFactor said:


> I think that’s Russian has a V on the burner white truck door


Might be.. but so strange that door is the only thing not burned there!?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## sammuel

Apollon said:


> Damn thats like something out of a bizarre Hitchcock movie. Russian soldiers get medals and appear like in shock and fear.
> 
> Looks like hostage situation



War stinks. Those who are lucky enough not to get injured , come back home with injured souls.


'~

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## Clutch

kingQamaR said:


> An utterly banal and stupid comment is full of garbage . Why you a Pakistani crying so much over a European land war its got nothing to do with you for your dictators Putin is he your messiah or something to do what For you ? These Russians hate you Muslims so do Ukrainian and Pakistanis here are prostrating themselves if anyone needs to look in the mirror it’s you!




I say let them both kill each other off... Go nuclear if they want. As low ng as whitie is killing whitie is all good. So that's why I support Russia as long as it's the underdog..... But if the NATO/Ukrainian start losing then I will switch my support to the NATO/Ukrain so they can start killing some Russians... 

So to keep this going.... Let them kill each other off. As long as they are busy killing each other..
Perhaps, only perhaps, they will be too busy to bomb us...

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509281420941926409

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509279891614744581


----------



## The SC

footage of the consequences of the fighting in Mariupol. The nationalist battalion AZOV almost ceased to exist.




Spoiler: Very Graphic



https://twitter.com/spriter99880/status/1509272562894839817





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509271979014205441
Video from Ramzan Kadyrov about Chechen security forces in Mariupol.



Spoiler: Graphic



https://twitter.com/spriter99880/status/1509270362772619268


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509203858333081608

NATO AirPower would steamroll Russia into the dirt

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509235068354637830

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509263247400177674

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509234657170186245


----------



## sammuel

Apollon said:


> Damn thats like something out of a bizarre Hitchcock movie. Russian soldiers get medals and appear like in shock and fear.
> 
> Looks like hostage situation



War stinks. Those who are lucky enough not to get injured , come back home with injured souls.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## DF41

RescueRanger said:


> It’s not just a thousand we’ve talked about this, the figure is much smaller than some pro Russians push out but it’s not “1000”.
> 
> That said using the pretext of “denazification” is lame and was exposed early on as a thinly veiled farce by Russia as a pretext of an invasion of a peaceful country.




Only USA and the pliant Western Mainstream Media will spout denazification is lame.

Below not to you. Since you deep in your pretense of sleeping.

But to all others here not sleeping or pretending to sleep 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504496858323894276









Thread by @BenjaminNorton on Thread Reader App


@BenjaminNorton: In this article, a leftist Ukrainian activist explains how the US government created the crisis, backing two coups in one decade, fueling a devastating civil war that killed 14,000 people, and explo...…




threadreaderapp.com

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509230376799113218

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509230379479322633

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509231563719987209

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509228288589320192

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

EasyNow said:


> I agree with all you've said but also nothing is written in stone. Germany will not become reliant on Russian gas again, but once the conflict is over and a friendly govt is in place, I believe gas will flow again at Germany's convenience.


It’s hard to imagine to become friends if someone points a gun at you. You will not buy gas from an enemy. Putin puts ballistic missiles in Kaliningrad that not only threatens Germany but Europe.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509227708722692103

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509146437334048769

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509225024502312980

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509227466665177090


----------



## Apollon

letsrock said:


> Not your father again. I am happy to talk to him directly but not like this. Your fascist way of thinking is evident "dumb construction worker".
> 
> Yea your father was an arsonist - so what? aren't there arsonists in other countries?.
> 
> BTW it wasn't one way migration, Between 1951-55 almost 300,000 germans migrated from west to east. Look east Germany was poor to begin with, on top of it it had to face relentless hostility in the name of cold war. And second - by definition they are standing for the weak and poor - so it takes a lot more nurturing. Considering all this it they did pretty well. Definitely not what you are portraying. There are thousands of germans right now who long for what east offered. You can dismiss them as old or whatever.
> 
> 
> 
> Yea right "light years ahead" - that's why they lost the war to USSR and had their country ripped in to two.
> BTW if its cultural - how come east germans continue to be significantly poor than west germans even 30 years after unification ?



I think you dont know what i can dismiss. I spit on such people.

That said Germany killed more russians than east Germany even had inhabitants during WWII. 

Why east germans are still poorer? Its not easy to undo 40 years of russian opression. Same with poland, czech republic and so on. Much effort is done evrywhere to wash away russian dust and damage.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Having your currency tied to the gold means you don't hold the "fraudulent" fiat money. It doesn't matter how much they can exchange between the Rubble and Gold now. Putin and Russians are playing the long game of making sure the gold standard is accepted, while they beat the sanctions and protect their interest.
> 
> Some of the EU states are having separate discussions with the Russians. As you can see Chancellor Scholtz is already looking out what is good for Germany and how they can bypass the unilateral sanctions from the West against Russia. If anything, we can see the cracks opening up between the coalition that was supposed to sanction Russia.



Lol Scholz said EU pays in Euro. Putin said ok


----------



## The SC

Apollon said:


> I think you dont know what i can dismiss. I spit on such people.
> 
> That said Germany killed more russians than east Germany even had inhabitants during WWII.
> 
> Why east germans are still poorer? Its not easy to undo 40 years of russian opression. Same with poland, czech republic and so on. Much effort is done evrywhere to wash away russian dust and damage.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol Scholz said EU pays in Euro. Putin said ok


Yes they will pay *Gazprombank *in Euro because it is not sanctioned by Europe yet.. (only by the US).. And on its turn it will pay the Russian state in Rubles..

The bank’s principal business areas are corporate banking, retail banking, investment banking and depository services. Its banking activities also include securities trading, foreign exchange operations, precious metals operations, clearing operations and settlement services.


----------



## Soldier35

In the battles for the Ukrainian city of Mariupol, one of the Russian T-72B tanks withstood a hit in the upper part of the tower of the Swedish-British portable NLAW ATGM, in the attack footage, one of the nationalists of the Azov battalion shoots at a Russian T-72B tank.






The footage of the destroyed division of the S-300 air defense system of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the settlement of Circuna, Kharkiv region, was published by the Russian Defense Ministry. The coordinates of the location of the S-300 air defense system of Ukraine were established with the help of electronic intelligence, after which the positions were struck by missile weapons. As a result of an accurate hit, the launchers of the S-300 air defense system and transport-loading vehicles with ammunition were destroyed.






Published footage of the calculations of the operational-tactical missile complex "Iskander-K" and the launch of the cruise missile R-500 in Ukraine. Iskander is a family of operational and tactical missile systems that has been in service with the Russian army for 15 years. Iskander is not a single missile system, but several modifications of various missiles. The basis of the Iskander-K complex is the 9K728 cruise missile, also known as the R-500, the launch of which is shown in the video. The missile has incredible accuracy, and is capable of hitting targets with an accuracy of up to two meters. Officially, the range of the R-500 missile is about 500 kilometers, but many sources believe that the actual range of the missile is 2000-2500

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## The SC

Apollon said:


> Russian soldiers dont follow orders and sabotage own equipment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine-Krieg: „Erhebliche Strahlendosen“ – Russische Truppen verlassen Tschernobyl - WELT
> 
> 
> Russland zieht sich aus Tschernobyl zurück: Nach Angaben des Kraftwerkbetreibers hat die Armee mit dem Abzug begonnen. Soldaten sollen unter radioaktiver Strahlung gelitten haben und in Panik ausgebrochen sein. Nahe Kiew gehen die Kämpfe weiter. Ein Überblick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.welt.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Care to explain why exactly you post putin propaganda? Would like to understand
> 
> Another SU 35 down


Which one is Putin propaganda?

And you really believe that Ukraine has the means to down a SU-35..It is obvious you are projecting your shortcomings here.. trying to hide your blind support for obvious propaganda..

Don't quote me again,,

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## Viet

The SC said:


> Yes they will pay *Gazprombank *in Euro because it is not sanctioned by Europe yet.. (only by the US).. And on its turn it will pay the Russian state in Rubles..
> 
> The bank’s principal business areas are corporate banking, retail banking, investment banking and depository services. Its banking activities also include securities trading, foreign exchange operations, precious metals operations, clearing operations and settlement services.


In Russia all companies earning foreign money must give 80 percent to the state. In exchange for worthless rubles. Gazprom bank has no choice.

Putin is like a Mafia pate.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## kingQamaR

TNT said:


> So ur head is so deep up there that u cant even see ur hypocrisy? Lolz no one is defending putin crazily like u and few others are defending the west. Literally u must have posted like a thousand comments in this thread, frothing from the mouth and vehemently defending ur white masters. Most of Pakistanis support russia because they hate the west and support the Pakistan govt stance of pro china and neutrality, not condemning russia. So there u go, we have a reason, but why u defending the west lil slave?



I can not beat your favourite position mate that is you being on your knees you can clearly see everything from down there you are very lucky you then. I do not agree or want your new world order crap for Pakistan just one visit by Pm imran khan to Russia is going to weave Russia off Indian milk. I do not think that is going to happen ever we buy cheap Russian gas let’s not get ahead of ourself and do not forget Ukrainian helped us thru our decades in our needs and I got no problems with brother neighbour China! And please do not write dribble on public social media others to see read think in future Pakistanis are like you see death and destruction and anti whites keep it in you like others on here . I have contributed on here with posts calling Russian war illegal what s wrong with that I’m free to post my views here right as I like. let’s call it quits now I got no joy arguing with fellow Pakistanis

Reactions: Like Like:
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## PakFactor

The SC said:


> Might be.. but so strange that door is the only thing not burned there!?



Your right it is kinda odd when the rest of the body is gone and door intact like that.


----------



## WotTen

thetutle said:


> Russian weapons are bought by countries that need to kill their own civilians.



US and France stopped selling weapons to Saudi Arabia when it became too difficult to keep a straight face while boasting about human rights while the Saudis were butchering Yemeni civilians with Western weapons.

Quietly, it seems, the weapons sales have resumed. Money talks!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

The SC said:


> Yes they will pay *Gazprombank *in Euro because it is not sanctioned by Europe yet.. (only by the US).. And on its turn it will pay the Russian state in Rubles..
> 
> The bank’s principal business areas are corporate banking, retail banking, investment banking and depository services. Its banking activities also include securities trading, foreign exchange operations, precious metals operations, clearing operations and settlement services.



Thats exactly how it was done before as well



The SC said:


> Which one is Putin propaganda?
> 
> And you really believe that Ukraine has the means to down a SU-35..It is obvious you are projecting your shortcomings here.. trying to hide your blind support for obvious propaganda..
> 
> Don't quote me again,,



The SU 35 was obviously downed and yes Ukraine has the means. BUK and other weaponsystems.








Beside that russian aircraft never performed good. Their credo was always mass over quality.


----------



## NADIM

OnThisDay, 2003, The Museum of Mosul in Baghdad was Heavily looted after US and NATO invasion of #Iraq. The net worth and content value were around 250 million dollars.

Reactions: Like Like:
5 | Sad Sad:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509406997665435653

Reactions: Like Like:
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## BHAN85

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509304336735686660
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509261990308552712
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509247864530259968
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509243608209272833


USA wants to send Russian made military hardware to Ukraine to watch how Russia disable/destroy them, nobody better than Russia know weak points of those machines


----------



## sur

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508873227761860622

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509192409502134285

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

Crazy how much russian junk piles up in Ukraine now. Will be some value for scrap metal traders 








sur said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508873227761860622



The Problem with that bullshit is, that putin is hinself a nazi. His entire regime is pure racism.

I have no problem with Ukraine nationalists fighting for their nation.

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## Vergennes

Good,keep the coffins coming back to Russia. And those who say it's only Putin's war,majority of Russians support Putin and his war in Ukraine (Oh,sorry I meant special military operation... oh wait i don't live in Russia,I don't care),I do hope coffins keep coming in the thousands so Russians feel the pain they are inflicting to Ukraine right now.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508890508046835721
After Russia's defeat in northern Ukraine,they are retreating and Ukraine's army advances towards Tchernobyl


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509276570665500678

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509454277017849858
Russians terrorists can't hide from Ukrainian artillery

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Primus

Apollon said:


> Russian soldiers dont follow orders and sabotage own equipment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine-Krieg: „Erhebliche Strahlendosen“ – Russische Truppen verlassen Tschernobyl - WELT
> 
> 
> Russland zieht sich aus Tschernobyl zurück: Nach Angaben des Kraftwerkbetreibers hat die Armee mit dem Abzug begonnen. Soldaten sollen unter radioaktiver Strahlung gelitten haben und in Panik ausgebrochen sein. Nahe Kiew gehen die Kämpfe weiter. Ein Überblick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.welt.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Care to explain why exactly you post putin propaganda? Would like to understand
> 
> Another SU 35 down


Stop reposting old content

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

Huffal said:


> Stop reposting old content



Article is from today morning.


----------



## Primus

Apollon said:


> Article is from today morning.


Im referring to the video of the supposed downed su35. Thats twice ive seen you upload it now

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## Apollon

Here you guys can see what cities look like that were liberated and russians pushed out


----------



## Foinikas

@dBSPL @SilentEagle @TNT

*Greeks and Turks support Russia in the invasion*









Τούρκοι και Έλληνες απαντούν: «Η Ρωσία έχει δίκιο στην εισβολή στην Ουκρανία» - Πτήση & Διάστημα


Μεγάλη η διαφορά αντίδρασης Ελλάδος-Τουρκίας στην ρωσική εισβολή στην Ουκρανία, με την χώρα μας να ταυτίζεται με τις κυρώσεις της Ε.Ε. ενώ η Τουρκία ακροβατεί μεταξύ των σχέσεων της και με το Κίεβο και με τη Μόσχα. Αν όμως σε κάτι ταυτιζόμαστε -αρκετά- αυτό είναι η άποψη της κοινής γνώμης για...




www.ptisidiastima.com





I googled translated the article:

*There is a big difference between the reaction of Greece and Turkey to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, with our country being identified with the EU sanctions. while Turkey is acrobatic between its relations with both Kyiv and Moscow. But if we agree on something - enough - this is the public opinion about the war that has strong "pro-Russian" characteristics. Thus, in a poll conducted by Metropoll in Turkey, with the question "who is responsible for the invasion", 33.7% answered "Russia", 48.3% "US and NATO" while a 7.5% answered " Ukraine"! This completely different perception from Western societies has further specialization depending on which party the Turks support. Thus, the most "pro-Russian" profile is shown by the voters of the "Good Party", Kemalist and nationalist, who answer 67% that "NATO-USA" is to blame, while Erdogan's party is at 48.5% and the Republican party at 48, 2% in the same answer. A large percentage of "Russia's fault" appears only to supporters of DEVA, a liberal party which, however, was created by a secondment from Erdogan's AKP.

In Greece now, yesterday's MRB poll for Newsbomb does not give very different results. As 42.8% of the respondents answer that "I am against the operation but Russia was right in some things", while 8.1% say that "Russia had serious reasons for the operation and I support it". Who says that in the political spectrum? Mainly the Center-Right and the Center, but also the Left.*

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509415133231165444

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509278005469847574

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Vergennes

The Armed Forces liquidated a group of Russian occupiers from units of the 7th Military Base. These are soldiers who came to fight against Ukraine from the self-proclaimed republic of Abkhazia.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509467170794872833


----------



## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## AZMwi

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509203858333081608
> 
> NATO AirPower would steamroll Russia into the dirt


why didn't u tried that???   russians were calling u openly


----------



## Vergennes

Amical encounter between Russian and Ukrainian soldiers

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509477019721117697

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509487143856578566
Russian BTR82A destroyed. From the rifles captured (or what's left of it),it belonged to either special forces or VDV.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jamahir

Foinikas said:


> A large percentage of "Russia's fault" appears only to supporters of DEVA, a liberal party which, however, was created by a secondment from Erdogan's AKP.



Aha !



Vergennes said:


> Amical encounter between Russian and Ukrainian soldiers
> 
> View attachment 828907
> 
> View attachment 828906
> 
> View attachment 828905
> 
> View attachment 828904
> 
> View attachment 828903
> 
> View attachment 828902
> 
> View attachment 828901
> 
> View attachment 828900
> 
> View attachment 828899



Yes, never post Ukranian units destroyed or captured by Russian and allied units.  And my commiserations for the deaths or injuries of the Russian unit in this encounter.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood




----------



## bobo6661

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/tswf8h


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509474728163033090
Seems russians retreated from Gostomel and Bucha in Kyiv

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> @dBSPL @SilentEagle @TNT
> 
> *Greeks and Turks support Russia in the invasion*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Τούρκοι και Έλληνες απαντούν: «Η Ρωσία έχει δίκιο στην εισβολή στην Ουκρανία» - Πτήση & Διάστημα
> 
> 
> Μεγάλη η διαφορά αντίδρασης Ελλάδος-Τουρκίας στην ρωσική εισβολή στην Ουκρανία, με την χώρα μας να ταυτίζεται με τις κυρώσεις της Ε.Ε. ενώ η Τουρκία ακροβατεί μεταξύ των σχέσεων της και με το Κίεβο και με τη Μόσχα. Αν όμως σε κάτι ταυτιζόμαστε -αρκετά- αυτό είναι η άποψη της κοινής γνώμης για...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ptisidiastima.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I googled translated the article:
> 
> *There is a big difference between the reaction of Greece and Turkey to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, with our country being identified with the EU sanctions. while Turkey is acrobatic between its relations with both Kyiv and Moscow. But if we agree on something - enough - this is the public opinion about the war that has strong "pro-Russian" characteristics. Thus, in a poll conducted by Metropoll in Turkey, with the question "who is responsible for the invasion", 33.7% answered "Russia", 48.3% "US and NATO" while a 7.5% answered " Ukraine"! This completely different perception from Western societies has further specialization depending on which party the Turks support. Thus, the most "pro-Russian" profile is shown by the voters of the "Good Party", Kemalist and nationalist, who answer 67% that "NATO-USA" is to blame, while Erdogan's party is at 48.5% and the Republican party at 48, 2% in the same answer. A large percentage of "Russia's fault" appears only to supporters of DEVA, a liberal party which, however, was created by a secondment from Erdogan's AKP.
> 
> In Greece now, yesterday's MRB poll for Newsbomb does not give very different results. As 42.8% of the respondents answer that "I am against the operation but Russia was right in some things", while 8.1% say that "Russia had serious reasons for the operation and I support it". Who says that in the political spectrum? Mainly the Center-Right and the Center, but also the Left.*wgar



Irrelevant, the majority of Greeks is against this war and our government stands 100% fiem against Putins facism


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

🇷🇺🇺🇦 Statement by Russian Defence Ministry

▫️As part of a tour through Western parliaments to collect weapons for 'defending Europe and democracy', Zelensky, speaking to Norwegian Storting MPs on March 30, accused Russia of allegedly 'mining the sea' and blocking foreign ships in Ukrainian ports.

▫️Given Zelensky's ignorance of the real situation outside Kiev and the activities of his own subordinates, we officially inform.

▫️Between February 25 and March 4, the remnants of the Ukrainian navy's mine clearing forces planted about 420 sea anchor mines of the YaM-1 type in the waters of Black and Azov seas, 370 in the Black Sea and 50 in the Azov Sea.

▫️As a result of stormy conditions in the Black Sea and due to poor technical condition, about 10 Ukrainian mines have had their bottom anchor wires broken.

▫️Since then, under the influence of wind and surface flows, the Ukrainian mines have drifted freely southwards in the western part of the Black Sea.

▫️One Ukrainian mine was recently discovered and neutralised by Turkish sailors. The second Ukrainian mine is neutralised in Romanian territorial waters.

▫️No one can know where the remaining Ukrainian mines are drifting today. The leadership of the Kiev nationalist regime, which by its criminal actions has created a direct mine threat to the transport and cargo ships of all Black Sea countries, is even more so.

▫️As for Zelensky's lie about allegedly blocking around 100 foreign ships in Ukrainian ports, we explain.

▫️Ukrainian authorities are currently forcibly detaining 68 vessels belonging to Turkey, China, Switzerland, Greece, Malta Panama, Marshall Islands, Sierra Leone, Comoros, Belize, Liberia, Cayman Islands, Denmark, Syria in Chernomorsk, Odessa and Nikolaev ports .

▫️At the same time, the Russian Federation daily from 08:00 to 19:00 Moscow time opens a safe corridor of 80 nautical miles wide for these vessels to leave the territorial waters of Ukraine in the south-western direction.

▫️However, the crews of the ships in question told us in radio conversations that any departure of a foreign vessel from Ukrainian ports was forbidden by the Ukrainian authorities under threat of immediate sinking.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine 
@mod_russia_en

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## Apollon

8888888888888 said:


> So German back down in the End.
> 
> 
> The number of troops loses are fictional so the others are probably not correct as well



No Germany did not back down @Ich is a russian apologist and AfD voter. Those guys are putins 5th column in Germany.

Germany like all EU nations keep paying in €.


----------



## sammuel

bobo6661 said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/tswf8h



They where Nazi cows

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## Hassan Al-Somal

🇷🇺🇺🇦Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry 

▫️*Units of the Russian Armed Forces, continuing their offensive, took control of Zolotaya Niva, crossed Kashlagach River and occupied an advantageous position.

▫️The advance was 6 kilometers. Up to 60 Ukrainian nationalists, 2 tanks, 4 infantry fighting vehicles, 9 vehicles for various purposes were destroyed.*

▫️Units of the Lugansk People's Republic, having completed the mopping-up of Zhitlovka, have advanced 5 kilometers and are fighting with nationalists on the outskirts of Kremennaya.

*💥On the evening of March 30, high-precision air-based cruise missiles destroyed large fuel bases in Dnepropetrovsk, Lisichansk, Chuguev and Novomoskovsk, from which fuel was supplied to the Ukrainian military grouping in Donbass.

✈️💥During the day, operational-tactical and army aviation hit 52 military assets of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Among them: 4 command posts, 1 S-300 anti-aircraft missile system south of Izyum and 1 Buk-M1 near Kurakhovo, 2 multiple aunch rocket systems, 1 ammunition and missile-artillery weapons depot, 2 fuel depots and 38 strong points and areas of military equipment concentration.*

💥*Russian air defence means shot down 18 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles in the area of Balakleya, Verbovoye, Verhnetoretskoe, Dokuchaevsk, Korolevka, Komarin, Opytnoe, Pavlovka, Repki, Chernigov, Chernobyl and Shchors, including 1 Bayraktar-TB2 near Bezymyannoe.*

📊In total, 124 aircfaft and 77 helicopters, 216 unmanned aerial vehicles, 341 unmanned aerial vehicles, 1,815 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 195 multiple launch rocket systems, 762 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,689 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.

#Russia #Ukraine #Briefing 
@mod_russia_en

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Irrelevant, the majority of Greeks is against this war and our government stands 100% fiem against Putins facism


You're like those communists who talk about "fascism" all day. Majority of Greeks disagrees with the invasion,but doesn't necessarily stand with Ukraine and the West. People know it was the NATO's fault. 

The government supports NATO,EU and Ukraine. So what? You can't think for yourself? You can't decide?



sammuel said:


> They where Nazi cows


Oh yeah?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509501818862280706

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509501818862280706

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## UKBengali

This war has turned into a stalemate now and it is clear that Putin's attempt to overthrow the "puppet" Ukrainian government has failed.

Ukrainians have proved that they will fight to the death to defend their country and so Russia needs to realise that it needs to offer acceptable terms to the Ukrainians to make peace.

Russia should withdraw to the areas it occupied on February 24 and accept Ukraine's offer of permanent neutrality in exchange for security guarantees from the West, Turkey and China.

These guarantees should include the imposition of a "no fly zone" and also unlimited economic and military assistance in the event that Ukraine is invaded by Russia in the future without any justifiable reason like Ukraine attacked first.

Also Russia should offer a portion of their massive foreign assets in order to help Ukraine rebuild itself. West and China can also help out as they are rich.

World powers need to step up and bring this bloodbath to an end now.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509501818862280706

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> Amical encounter between Russian and Ukrainian soldiers
> 
> View attachment 828901
> 
> View attachment 828900
> 
> View attachment 828899



This is a way more serious kit than what bums on the eastern direction have.


----------



## jamahir

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> However, the crews of the ships in question told us in radio conversations that any departure of a foreign vessel from Ukrainian ports was forbidden by the Ukrainian authorities under threat of immediate sinking.



Terrorists !



Apollon said:


> No Germany did not back down @Ich is a russian apologist and AfD voter. Those guys are putins 5th column in Germany.
> 
> Germany like all EU nations keep paying in €.



So you blame @Ich just for being sane and refusing to be part of the lynch mob ?

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## sammuel

Foinikas said:


> You're like those communists who talk about "fascism" all day. Majority of Greeks disagrees with the invasion,but doesn't necessarily stand with Ukraine and the West. People know it was the NATO's fault.
> 
> The government supports NATO,EU and Ukraine. So what? You can't think for yourself? You can't decide?
> 
> 
> Oh yeah?
> 
> 
> View attachment 828937





Sure wearing new uniforms after 77 years.


You have a source for this bs other than this silly image ?

~


----------



## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> You're like those communists who talk about "fascism" all day. Majority of Greeks disagrees with the invasion,but doesn't necessarily stand with Ukraine and the West. People know it was the NATO's fault.
> 
> The government supports NATO,EU and Ukraine. So what? You can't think for yourself? You can't decide?
> 
> 
> Oh yeah?
> 
> 
> View attachment 828937



NATO fault for what? Allowing nations who seek Security from russian agression in? 

In case you have not noticed, we are the west. The only mistake NATO did was to not allow Ukraine in 2008. 

I do think for myself. In my opinion we should directly intervene and create a no fly zone over Ukraine. I even supported a petition for that. 

Btw i know people with your mindset. In case this escalates we will need to take care of traitors in our own lines.



jamahir said:


> Terrorists !
> 
> 
> 
> So you blame @Ich just for being sane and refusing to be part of the lynch mob ?



No, he is part of a fringe 5% neo nazi party. Nobody in Germany takes AfD serious. They are funded by Putin, watched by security service in Germany.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509474005035757568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509109149791133702

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509476367863361536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509134197037932551

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509193199138574337

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509423033739792387

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## Apollon

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509474005035757568
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509109149791133702
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509476367863361536
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509134197037932551
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509193199138574337
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509423033739792387



His daughter lives in London and got sanctioned. Now she is forced to live in Russia.









UK sanctions daughter of Russia's foreign minister, who somehow bought a $5 million apartment in London in cash aged 21


Polina Kovaleva, who lives a luxurious lifestyle in London, is the latest family members of one of Vladimir Putin's inner circle to be blacklisted.




www.businessinsider.com





What a clown.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509509674407763973

B-52s can launch up to 20 JASSM stealth cruise missiles

Reactions: Like Like:
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1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509505829380272128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509508477122748418

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## DF41

jamahir said:


> Terrorists !
> 
> 
> 
> So you blame @Ich just for being sane and refusing to be part of the lynch mob ?




How can there be a lynch mob??

Didn't the lynch head man signed with much fanfare and halloballo in a historical first, a bill banning lynching? 

Or is it USA signature not even worth the ink in the signature? 

Demonstrated time and time again from torn up and broken treaties with those original owners of USA

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60679930 
Joe Biden signs anti-lynching bill in historic first​









Pompeo just one of the many typical American is it?





Mike Pompeo said, "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole."
Ex-director Mike Pompeo says in CIA ‘we lied, we cheated, we stole’​

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## Foinikas

sammuel said:


> Sure wearing new uniforms after 77 years.
> 
> 
> You have a source for this bs other than this silly image ?
> 
> ~


Did you not understand the comedy in this photo?

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## jhungary

@Wood @mmr @F-22Raptor @gambit @Oldman1 

I have an interesting talk with an A-Team buddy of mine last night. we chat about the Russian inability to enforce Air Superiority over Ukraine. He bring out 1 very good point. One of these is probably flying close to Polish Border and provide Air Defence Jamming to at least Western Ukraine.






No, it is not a C-130, this is a EC-130H Compass Call, we use them to jam Radar and Communication, also to intercept communication.

Think about it, it's one thing we provide target coordinate to the Ukrainian telling them where and when to hit their target, that should not do anything to Russian offensive capability, so assuming Russia force is not completely incompetent, there should be a reason as to why they under perform. One of this thing can cover a 500km radius, which if they are flying from Polish border, they are more than enough to cover the entire Western Ukraine (Kyiv is 400km from Poland). And they are Spec Op aircraft, so they most likely don't turn on their transponder (so nobody know they were there) and 2 of these will be able to provide coverage 24/7.

Any thought??

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509398049843707907

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509449679351820288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509496040914890754

Reactions: Like Like:
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1


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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> I do think for myself. In my opinion we should directly intervene and create a no fly zone over Ukraine. I even supported a petition for that.
> 
> Btw i know people with your mindset. In case this escalates we will need to take care of traitors in our own lines.


YOU consider ME a traitor? The half-German who studies in Germany and supports NATO wholeheartedly? 

It's people like you who think that Americans will rush to our help and that Germans will support us and not Turkey,because we're in the EU. 

Instead of keeping a balanced stance between Russia and the West,you think we should be trying hard to impress our "allies" in NATO and EU about how loyal we are to their "democratic" values and warmongering.

You call me a traitor? You? Kid,get a grip. You'd rather have us align with the Fourth Reich,just because you dislike anything eastern.

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## Wood

jhungary said:


> Think about it, it's one thing we provide target coordinate to the Ukrainian telling them where and when to hit their target, that should not do anything to Russian offensive capability, so assuming


I've seen opinions online that claim TB2 drones have been so successful in their attack and evasion because US intelligence has been guiding them on when to take off / attack and land. So no doubt, Ukraine is well backed by Uncle Sam's might.


----------



## Ich

jamahir said:


> So you blame @Ich just for being sane and refusing to be part of the lynch mob ?


He cant blame me. Maybe if he gets older he also gets more wise.

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## thetutle

letsrock said:


> yea ..nice story bruh. They were a few such things no doubt but you are vastly misrepresenting the issue. People who left east germany are white collars not poor or working men who were better off in a socialist country. And the reasons are obvious why they would go - just like engineers or surgeons queue up for us even from western european countries. us is the most highly capitalized and wages will be higher.


So why did border guards shoot on sight if it was soo good in east Germany? Why not let the blue collar workers go on holidays to Austria? West Germany? you know why. They would never ever come back to the "paradise" that was East Germany.

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## sammuel

Foinikas said:


> Did you not understand the comedy in this photo?


got you


----------



## jhungary

Wood said:


> I've seen opinions online that claim TB2 drones have been so successful in their attack and evasion because US intelligence has been guiding them on when to take off / attack and land. So no doubt, Ukraine is well backed by Uncle Sam's might.


Well, I am saying this is more than just intelligence sharing, if a EC-130H is used (which I have no evidence or clue whether or not they were used) that mean US Air Force is providing active and offensive intelligence solution, which mean it is more than a passive role they were doing.

That plane jam communication, and I have had seen multiple report that non-dedicated line are spotty in Ukraine at best. This is a tell-tale sign 1 of these is doing its trick.

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## Wood

jhungary said:


> Well, I am saying this is more than just intelligence sharing, if a EC-130H is used (which I have no evidence or clue whether or not they were used) that mean US Air Force is providing *active and offensive intelligence solution*, which mean it is more than a passive role they were doing.
> 
> That plane jam communication, and I have had seen multiple report that non-dedicated line are spotty in Ukraine at best. This is a tell-tale sign 1 of these is doing its trick.


Ofcourse, US has to be sure that TB2s are safe to fly.


----------



## coffee_cup

only few weeks ago, $1 was trading at 150 or so Rubles and now:






What is going on here? I was kinda expecting it to reach 200 against dollar but it is getting stronger instead.

Reactions: Like Like:
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1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509494577945886728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509505002628386816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509522207696953347

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509523297859473409

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509522598627008519

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
2


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## mmr

jhungary said:


> @Wood @mmr @F-22Raptor @gambit @Oldman1
> 
> I have an interesting talk with an A-Team buddy of mine last night. we chat about the Russian inability to enforce Air Superiority over Ukraine. He bring out 1 very good point. One of these is probably flying close to Polish Border and provide Air Defence Jamming to at least Western Ukraine.
> 
> View attachment 828965
> 
> 
> No, it is not a C-130, this is a EC-130H Compass Call, we use them to jam Radar and Communication, also to intercept communication.
> 
> Think about it, it's one thing we provide target coordinate to the Ukrainian telling them where and when to hit their target, that should not do anything to Russian offensive capability, so assuming Russia force is not completely incompetent, there should be a reason as to why they under perform. One of this thing can cover a 500km radius, which if they are flying from Polish border, they are more than enough to cover the entire Western Ukraine (Kyiv is 400km from Poland). And they are Spec Op aircraft, so they most likely don't turn on their transponder (so nobody know they were there) and 2 of these will be able to provide coverage 24/7.
> 
> Any thought??


I am not good in military strategy. But seems nato already helping Ukrainian forces with live intel.


----------



## letsrock

thetutle said:


> So why did border guards shoot on sight if it was soo good in east Germany? Why not let the blue collar workers go on holidays to Austria? West Germany? you know why. They would never ever come back to the "paradise" that was East Germany.


Dude - about 3-4 million migrated from east to west (there were hundreds of thousands from other side too). How many victims in border crossing ? 327 as per BBC : https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40200305 . and this includes 24 border guards themselves shot.
Most of the shootings were within berlin area- because right in the heart of east Germany was literally a nato enclave. And east germany was paranoid about migrations there - not because of economic reasons but due to military/spy etc. As part of establishment of berlin enclave it got guarantees that it will not be used as conduit for human trafficking.

If you take out the shootings in highly militarized berlin and baltic sea (where it was mines)area then total deaths are just 16.

Also it is complete fabrication that east germany did not permit people to travel. In 1987 itself* 2.8 million visits* were made by east germans to west germans and majority came back home.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509521399320248326

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509511932738523144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509503617451151373

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509492334072934407

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Love Love:
1


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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> YOU consider ME a traitor? The half-German who studies in Germany and supports NATO wholeheartedly?
> 
> It's people like you who think that Americans will rush to our help and that Germans will support us and not Turkey,because we're in the EU.
> 
> Instead of keeping a balanced stance between Russia and the West,you think we should be trying hard to impress our "allies" in NATO and EU about how loyal we are to their "democratic" values and warmongering.
> 
> You call me a traitor? You? Kid,get a grip. You'd rather have us align with the Fourth Reich,just because you dislike anything eastern.
> 
> View attachment 828968



Man i feel pity for you. I really do.

Btw we are not allied. We are NATO. We are EU and im damn proud for that. And yes i see your mindset as that of a traitor.

Maybe move to russia and experience that shithole for yourself.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509488628388540420

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509487630643343361

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509477613911396352

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

letsrock said:


> Dude - about 3-4 million migrated from east to west (there were hundreds of thousands from other side too). How many victims in border crossing ? 327 as per BBC : https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40200305 . and this includes 24 border guards themselves shot.
> Most of the shootings were within berlin area- because right in the heart of east Germany was literally a nato enclave. And east germany was paranoid about migrations there - not because of economic reasons but due to military/spy etc. As part of establishment of berlin enclave it got guarantees that it will not be used as conduit for human trafficking.
> 
> If you take out the shootings in highly militarized berlin and baltic sea (where it was mines)area then total deaths are just 16.
> 
> Also it is complete fabrication that east germany did not permit people to travel. In 1987 itself* 2.8 million visits* were made by east germans to west germans and majority came back home.



Bullshit. East germans were only allowed visiting west when older than 63 years old.

Another town was cleared from russian occupation


----------



## letsrock

Apollon said:


> Bullshit. East germans were only allowed visiting west when older than 63 years old.
> 
> Another town was cleared from russian occupation


Not true they allowed less than retirement age as well in 80s;

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## jamahir

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509398049843707907



Wrong move. The Taliban were co-created by USA and were tolerated by NATO and were enabled to power last year by NATO. The Taliban will be heavy chains in the neck of Russia. Look at the attitude of the Taliban towards the Central Asian countries which are friendly with Russia. Just some months ago the Taliban threatened Tajikistan where Russia has station at least one military unit.



Ich said:


> He cant blame me. Maybe if he gets older he also gets more wise.



I agree and that's what I told him about ten days ago :


jamahir said:


> You are 20 years old and have the hate of a mindless young fanatic. We have many such people in India. I think time will cure you.

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## Apollon

letsrock said:


> Not true they allowed less than retirement age as well in 80s;



Thats wrong. Only retired were allowed to leave. Youngers could apply too. The moment they filled out that form they went through years of hell organized from STASI.



jamahir said:


> Wrong move. The Taliban were co-created by USA and were tolerated by NATO and were enabled to power last year by NATO. The Taliban will be heavy chains in the neck of Russia. Look at the attitude of the Taliban towards the Central Asian countries which are friendly with Russia. Just some months ago the Taliban threatened Tajikistan where Russia has station at least one military unit.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree and that's what I told him about ten days ago :



Well my grandfather thinks they should just wipe away any russian presence. So nope. We just love to be free people and dont bow to primitive dictators 

Thats putins mainproblem. He can only offer misery. What benefits does it have ti ally with a hypercorrupted shithole where people have low living standards and no freedom? There are no benefits. Thats also the reason why putin fails in Ukraine. Ukrainians dont want to live in putins dystopic empire of misery and dirt.

Intelligent russians escape Russia as long it is possible 






They are simply logical. When you are intelligent, educated and skilled... Russia can offer you no future. Now that it becomes like North Korea its even worse for them.


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Man i feel pity for you. I really do.
> 
> Btw we are not allied. We are NATO. We are EU and im damn proud for that. And yes i see your mindset as that of a traitor.
> 
> Maybe move to russia and experience that shithole for yourself.


Maybe move to Romania or Bulgaria yourself since they are in NATO and EU.

You've obviously haven't paid attention to my posts since you came here. When Russians were best friends with Erdy,I was not congratulating them. When the French were supporting us,I was donning to others here that our interests aligned.
When Americans were supporting us against Turkey,I was telling people that they have reasons to support us more.

But like all geopolitical analysts in Greece will tell you,we can't count on them. We can't count on the Russians and we can't count on the Europeans. The Kurds counted on the Americans,the Georgians counted on the Americans and now Zelensky counted on the Americans and the EU.

And they were all f*cked up.

You say we are the EU and NATO? 

What are we in the EU? Apart from one of the original member-States,what are we?
Are we France? Are we Germany? Are we Belgium? Italy? Spain? We don't have a fraction of their economies. 

NATO? There's a lot of stronger countries in NATO than us. 

We are not them. We are a small part of them. We are allies and not first-rate allies. We are the kind of allies that Britain always asked for help before every major war and forgot afterwards.

We are the ones they will praise for our democracy,civilization and culture and end up being friendlier with Turkey and taking the side of FYROM and Albania. 

And we are still here talking about "democracy and human rights",being all proud we are a member of the "civilised" world,that is EU and NATO.

Look what they did. Where's their adamant support for our gas and oil exploration? Where are the sanctions about Cyprus? Why didn't they take our side on the Macedonian issue? Why did they butcher us with heavy loans during the economic crisis?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509476141882564614

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509525483054006272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509260457328226305

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509251546416095235

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Maybe move to Romania or Bulgaria yourself since they are in NATO and EU.
> 
> You've obviously haven't paid attention to my posts since you came here. When Russians were best friends with Erdy,I was not congratulating them. When the French were supporting us,I was donning to others here that our interests aligned.
> When Americans were supporting us against Turkey,I was telling people that they have reasons to support us more.
> 
> But like all geopolitical analysts in Greece will tell you,we can't count on them. We can't count on the Russians and we can't count on the Europeans. The Kurds counted on the Americans,the Georgians counted on the Americans and now Zelensky counted on the Americans and the EU.
> 
> And they were all f*cked up.
> 
> You say we are the EU and NATO?
> 
> What are we in the EU? Apart from one of the original member-States,what are we?
> Are we France? Are we Germany? Are we Belgium? Italy? Spain? We don't have a fraction of their economies.
> 
> NATO? There's a lot of stronger countries in NATO than us.
> 
> We are not them. We are a small part of them. We are allies and not first-rate allies. We are the kind of allies that Britain always asked for help before every major war and forgot afterwards.
> 
> We are the ones they will praise for our democracy,civilization and culture and end up being friendlier with Turkey and taking the side of FYROM and Albania.
> 
> And we are still here talking about "democracy and human rights",being all proud we are a member of the "civilised" world,that is EU and NATO.
> 
> Look what they did. Where's their adamant support for our gas and oil exploration? Where are the sanctions about Cyprus? Why didn't they take our side on the Macedonian issue? Why did they butcher us with heavy loans during the economic crisis?



Romania and Bulgaria are all far superior in living standards than Russia. 

I would not want a single day to live under russian opression. Its one of the most repulsive and disgusting regimes on this planet. You can praise them all you want. You claim to be greek orthodox and at same time jump in joy as putler destroys Mariupol. Even sends chechens there to destroy churches. As a greek you should know what Mariupol means. 

As i said, i feel sorry for you. 

Good thing is, you and your friends are completly powerless in politics. Our government walks over you, like it has always done. Its for the better.


----------



## coffee_cup

According to reports, apart from gas, Russia is also considering the payment method in Ruble for wheat, oil, minerals and other metals.

Does it mean, more countries will be forced to buy Rubles?

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Love Love:
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## Type59

sammuel said:


> Sure wearing new uniforms after 77 years.
> 
> 
> You have a source for this bs other than this silly image ?
> 
> ~


It was a joke.


----------



## Apollon

coffee_cup said:


> According to reports, apart from gas, Russia is also considering the payment method in Ruble for wheat, oil, minerals and other metals.
> 
> Does it mean, more countries will be forced to buy Rubles?



No country of the free world will buy rubles.


----------



## sur

Ukraine's defence ministry presents video game footage as proof of dominance over Russian air force​_This *isn't the the first time* Ukraine has presented video game footage as evidence of its superiority against the Russian military.
Ukraine’s Ministry of Defence has *once again* published fake video game footage to claim that its forces had “skillfully eliminated” Russian attack helicopters in Kherson._


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507003270518419458



Open following tweet to see the deleted one above it.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506965885327745025



Here's a screenshot:

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1 | Haha Haha:
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## coffee_cup

Apollon said:


> No country of the free world will buy rubles.



What is "free world"?

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## Vergennes

Russian soldiers drowned in the Sumy region



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509540802783023110



Novovorontsovka in Kherson oblast has been liberated from russian terrorists. Ukraine recaptured previously lost tanks.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509552389547769870

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## libertad

Looks like Putin has come to his senses. Demands Roubles for gas on April 1st.






I hope he sticks to his guns this time.

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## Viet

coffee_cup said:


> According to reports, apart from gas, Russia is also considering the payment method in Ruble for wheat, oil, minerals and other metals.
> 
> Does it mean, more countries will be forced to buy Rubles?


Putin won’t stop there. He will demand we pay in rubles for submarines, fighter jets and tanks.

I think it’s win win.
We Vietnam have high demand for Russia military gears. I have to check the exchange rate VND/Rubles though.

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## Apollon

coffee_cup said:


> What is "free world"?



Nations where people are free, not autocratic and primitive dictatorships. EU, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea, Chile, UK just to name a few of the most important. But also smaller ones like switzerland, seychelles,


----------



## Vergennes

A group of russian forces were totally obliterated in Kyiv. Video too graphic



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509555545237299200


----------



## Ich

Klitschko has landed in Berlin today....for "talks"...









Wladimir Klitschko zu Gesprächen in Berlin gelandet - B.Z. – Die Stimme Berlins


Wladimir Klitschko (46) ist am Donnerstag überraschend aus der ukrainischen Hauptstadt Kiew abgereist. Nach BILD-Informationen ist er bereits in Berlin gelandet.




www.bz-berlin.de


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509553376417173508

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509537459922690049

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509513795974180870


----------



## Apollon

@Vergennes @jamahir 

The villas of rich russians in Germany got confiscated and now ukrainian refugees get housed there









Bürgermeister plant Tegernsee-Villen von Russen-Oligarch als Geflüchtetenheime zu nutzen


Der Bürgermeister von Rottach-Egern am Tegernsee will den russischen Oligarchen Alisher Usmanov enteignen, um Zugriff auf dessen drei Villen zu haben. Die Gemeinde plant Geflüchtete dort unterzubringen. Usmanovs Vermögen, das auf 15,3 Milliarden Euro geschätzt wird, wurde von der EU, den USA und...




www.focus.de

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## coffee_cup

Apollon said:


> Nations where people are free, not autocratic and primitive dictatorships. EU, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea, Chile, UK just to name a few of the most important. But also smaller ones like switzerland, seychelles,



So Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, the whole democratic Latin America (apart from Chile, which you mentioned), South Africa, the African continent, India, the Asian continet ... 

Are they free world too?

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509556486535618569


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509553376417173508






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509469017412673538

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Romania and Bulgaria are all far superior in living standards than Russia.


Where do you get that idea? Russia is massive. Place to place varies. You describe Russia as if it's some Indian village. 

How do you draw the conclusion that Bulgaria and Romania are far superior? It's ridiculous. It's the same way you bashed China as a backwards place.



Apollon said:


> I would not want a single day to live under russian opression.


Oh the oppression! Oh! Oh the oppression! Tell me,what are you being oppressed off? Are you a Jehova's Witness? Are you LGBT rights supporter? Are you pro-liberal arts feminazi supporter? 

Where's the big oppression? It's not Saddam's rule ffs.



Apollon said:


> You claim to be greek orthodox and at same time jump in joy as putler destroys Mariupol. Even sends chechens there to destroy churches. As a greek you should know what Mariupol means.


When did I jump about Mariupol? How many times have I said on this forum about how bad it is that two brothers are fighting and that Orthodox are dying? The only ones who profit out of this are the scum in the West who started this whole mess with their shit. 

If you paid attention a bit,you'd have seen my posts about it.



Apollon said:


> As i said, i feel sorry for you.
> 
> Good thing is, you and your friends are completly powerless in politics. Our government walks over you, like it has always done. Its for the better.


Oh and you are powerful in politics? Our government does what? Walks over us? Then you're talking about a huge part of the greek people. Centre-right,far-right,leftists. Nationalists and communists agree on the fact that Russia was pushed to invade because of those bstards who shove a country against them and then cry crocodile tears and start selling all the stock weapons they have. Wake up. You think the world is the glamorous early 2000s European Union ruled by Brussels? 
There ain't no bright future. American democrats and Brits are pushing the EU to buy their own energy and weaken the Russians on their behalf. 

Wake up. I'm not telling you to be on Russia's side,I'm telling you to not count them as your loyal friends and brothers. 
You think the Brit will care about us? The American who smile to the Turks again? The French who shook hands with Erdogan and talked about alliances? 

*Ask the Pakistanis,ask them about American embargoes on their weapons and spare parts during times of war. Go ahead,ask them and they'll tell you. *

@PakFactor @Sainthood 101 @Bleek @SecularNationalist @TNT

You think the Germans who brutally demanded cuts on our salaries,pensions and increased taxes will actually care for us? The Scandinavians? Who? The Italians who supported Turkey during 2020's provocations? The Spaniards who want to sell aircraft carriers and ships to the Turks? The Netherlands who didn't even care to talk against Erdogan in 2020? 

Go ask the Kurds,what happened after Desert Storm. When they encouraged the Kurds to rise against Saddam and then left them just like that to be slaughtered. Ask the Georgians who thought they could march in South Ossetia like Israelis did in Lebanon and fell for American promises. And then were running towards Tbilisi. 

Ask the Kurds again who counted on American support and protection and saw the U.S. Army leaving them alone to fight the Turks that were coming.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509210304877670405


----------



## Apollon

coffee_cup said:


> So Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, the whole democratic Latin America (apart from Chile, which you mentioned), South Africa, the African continent, India, the Asian continet ...
> 
> Are they free world too?



I said, just to name a few. South Aftica is not democratic, Namibia is. India is not democratic, its a tyranny with its bizarre caste system. In Asia only Japan, South Korea and Taiwan are fully free nations, Singapore comes close. The rest is autocratic regimes.


----------



## coffee_cup

Apollon said:


> I said, just to name a few. South Aftica is not democratic, Namibia is. India is not democratic, its a tyranny with its bizarre caste system. In Asia only Japan, South Korea and Taiwan are fully free nations, Singapore comes close. The rest is autocratic regimes.



So basically all the countries which toe US line are "free world"?

People in Brazil are not free, Mexico - not free, India and South Africa - not free, Pakistan - not free, Indonesia - not free. Vatican (because they are buying Rubles) - not free . Interesting.


BTW: Is it the same kind of freedom where banning media from other countries is called "protection of freedom" whereas counter ban is considered "attack on freedom"?

Reactions: Like Like:
4 | Haha Haha:
1


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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Where do you get that idea? Russia is massive. Place to place varies. You describe Russia as if it's some Indian village.
> 
> How do you draw the conclusion that Bulgaria and Romania are far superior? It's ridiculous. It's the same way you bashed China as a backwards place.
> 
> 
> Oh the oppression! Oh! Oh the oppression! Tell me,what are you being oppressed off? Are you a Jehova's Witness? Are you LGBT rights supporter? Are you pro-liberal arts feminazi supporter?
> 
> Where's the big oppression? It's not Saddam's rule ffs.
> 
> 
> When did I jump about Mariupol? How many times have I said on this forum about how bad it is that two brothers are fighting and that Orthodox are dying? The only ones who profit out of this are the scum in the West who started this whole mess with their shit.
> 
> If you paid attention a bit,you'd have seen my posts about it.
> 
> 
> Oh and you are powerful in politics? Our government does what? Walks over us? Then you're talking about a huge part of the greek people. Centre-right,far-right,leftists. Nationalists and communists agree on the fact that Russia was pushed to invade because of those bstards who shove a country against them and then cry crocodile tears and start selling all the stock weapons they have. Wake up. You think the world is the glamorous early 2000s European Union ruled by Brussels?
> There ain't no bright future. American democrats and Brits are pushing the EU to buy their own energy and weaken the Russians on their behalf.
> 
> Wake up. I'm not telling you to be on Russia's side,I'm telling you to not count them as your loyal friends and brothers.
> You think the Brit will care about us? The American who smile to the Turks again? The French who shook hands with Erdogan and talked about alliances?
> 
> *Ask the Pakistanis,ask them about American embargoes on their weapons and spare parts during times of war. Go ahead,ask them and they'll tell you. *
> 
> @PakFactor @Sainthood 101 @Bleek @SecularNationalist @TNT
> 
> You think the Germans who brutally demanded cuts on our salaries,pensions and increased taxes will actually care for us? The Scandinavians? Who? The Italians who supported Turkey during 2020's provocations? The Spaniards who want to sell aircraft carriers and ships to the Turks? The Netherlands who didn't even care to talk against Erdogan in 2020?
> 
> Go ask the Kurds,what happened after Desert Storm. When they encouraged the Kurds to rise against Saddam and then left them just like that to be slaughtered. Ask the Georgians who thought they could march in South Ossetia like Israelis did in Lebanon and fell for American promises. And then were running towards Tbilisi.
> 
> Ask the Kurds again who counted on American support and protection and saw the U.S. Army leaving them alone to fight the Turks that were coming.



1. Russian are not our brothers. I hold myself to a certain standard, if you have no standard thats up to you. 

2. Russia is dirt poor. Outside Moscow and St Petersburg it is completly rotten and falling apart. Bulgaria and Romania have 75% higher income and living standards. Maybe you should visit Russia and see how they "exist".

3. Oh the evil west forced Putin to go full hitler. Dude get real. You support a vile and disgusting regime. What freedom i mean? Look at Putin, a 70 year old mdiget with a botox pancake face. He has low IQ and is ridicolous laughable. In a free nation i can say that openly. In Russia they catch you away. You are a very simple person with maybe simpler ideas so that doesnt bother you. But for intelligent people, highly educated people, such a regime is plain and simple a prison. 

But as i said, that doesnt matter now. We are at war and it looks good for us. Germany just announced to ship weapons worth 300 milion € to Ukraine. Those will make much more babushka shed tears. 

The costs for Putin must reach astronomical levels. 

I applaud the brave Ukrainians to fight that tyrant and who barevly stand for their freedom. Its inspirational for me.



coffee_cup said:


> So basically all the countries which toe US line are "free world"?
> 
> People in Brazil are not free, Mexico - not free, India and South Africa - not free, Pakistan - not free, Indonesia - not free. Vatican (because they are buying Rubles) - not free . Interesting.
> 
> 
> BTW: Is it the same kind of freedom where banning media from other countries is called "protection of freedom" whereas counter ban is considered "attack on freedom"?



Well the free world also happens to be the rich world.

I could not imagine to live in a autocratic regime.


----------



## coffee_cup

Meanwhile Putin signs a decree that European countries must have an account in "Gazprombank" to pay in Rubles in order to buy gas.

So it is official now.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
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## libertad

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509469017412673538


Assassinating Zelensky does nothing strategically for Russia and even excuses a reprisal on Putin. Reports of assassins being sent after Zelensky and his green screen are fake.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## kingQamaR

coffee_cup said:


> Meanwhile Putin signs a decree that European countries must have an account in "Gazprombank" to pay in Rubles in order to buy gas.
> 
> So it is official now.



Here's the situation, Europe has frozen the Euro assets of the Russian Central Bank and is severely restricting the use of the Euro by Russian businesses/traders. So, if Russia was to accept the Euro for payment, they wouldn't be able to exchange it for Rubles or use it for trade................in other words, it's worthless to Russia. Hence the reason why they want Rubles

Reactions: Like Like:
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## EasyNow

jamahir said:


> Terrorists !
> 
> 
> 
> So you blame @Ich just for being sane and refusing to be part of the lynch mob ?



I don't get your position on this? Are you a communist or just a russophile?

An oligarchy, the epitome of a capitalist society with wealth concentrated in the hands of an absolute micro-minority - has invaded another sovereign country. And you're acting like the oligarchy is the victim?

And the propaganda is so lame is almost laughable - Nazis!?

India has more Nazis currently than the world combined.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

coffee_cup said:


> Meanwhile Putin signs a decree that European countries must have an account in "Gazprombank" to pay in Rubles in order to buy gas.
> 
> So it is official now.



Which means Russia loses one of its last scources of income, since EU and G7 said they wont pay in ruble. 

As german trade minister Habeck said, the moment Russia closes the pipeline, it will be closed forever and never go back online. 

We will see how this works for Russia.


----------



## coffee_cup

Apollon said:


> Well the free world also happens to be the rich world.
> 
> I could not imagine to live in a autocratic regime.



You are all over the place.

Rich or poor is not what we are discussing here, neither are we discussing where you could imagine to live or not. 

It is about "Free World". And you dont think Brazil as free world? Neither is Mexico, Indonesia, Pakistan, India, South Africa?


BTW: The definition of being "Rich and happy" is VERY subjective!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> 1. Russian are not our brothers. I hold myself to a certain standard, if you have no standard thats up to you.


Two brothers fighting is Russia and you Ukraine,not Russia and NATO ffs. 



Apollon said:


> 2. Russia is dirt poor. Outside Moscow and St Petersburg it is completly rotten and falling apart. Bulgaria and Romania have 75% higher income and living standards. Maybe you should visit Russia and see how they "exist".


Yes,that's why Romanian and Bulgarian prostitutes,criminals and scammers constantly come to Greece,well done. That's high living standard there.



Apollon said:


> 3. Oh the evil west forced Putin to go full hitler. Dude get real. You support a vile and disgusting regime. What freedom i mean? Look at Putin, a 70 year old mdiget with a botox pancake face. He has low IQ and is ridicolous laughable. In a free nation i can say that openly. In Russia they catch you away. You are a very simple person with maybe simpler ideas so that doesnt bother you. But for intelligent people, highly educated people, such a regime is plain and simple a prison.


Putin has low IQ? An ex-KGB agent who became the president of a country nobody was afraid of anymore and made it a respectable world power? You're in denial. Let me show you something:













Apollon said:


> But as i said, that doesnt matter now. We are at war and it looks good for us. Germany just announced to ship weapons worth 300 milion € to Ukraine. Those will make much more babushka shed tears.


Who is at war you idiot? Greece? Ukrainians and Russians are dying and Western weapons companies are making money ouf of it. You're Germany is giving millions to Ukrainians but refuses to cut us more debt here in Greece.

Americans are rubbing their hands,getting back on their feet selling F-35s and "security" to stupid governments who think that having USA as an ally will solve their problems.



Apollon said:


> I applaud the brave Ukrainians to fight that tyrant and who barevly stand for their freedom. Its inspirational for me.


Oh yeah? And when Erdy will try to snatch some islands here,will you come back and fight or stay in Germany and milk euros?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## libertad

Apollon said:


> 2. Russia is dirt poor. Outside Moscow and St Petersburg it is completly rotten and falling apart. *Bulgaria and Romania have 75% higher income and living standards*. Maybe you should visit Russia and see how they "exist".


Where do you get that number? GDP per Capita Romania $14000, Bulgaria $11000, Russia $11000. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509523538901815308

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Wood

Russia drafting 134k more troops!

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## coffee_cup

Apollon said:


> Which means Russia loses one of its last scources of income, since EU and G7 said they wont pay in ruble.
> 
> As german trade minister Habeck said, the moment Russia closes the pipeline, it will be closed forever and never go back online.
> 
> We will see how this works for Russia.



Sure.

The next days, weeks and months will show. I hope it will not come to that and Europe will pay Russia to continue receiving gas.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509572084065873922

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


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## PakFactor

Foinikas said:


> Where do you get that idea? Russia is massive. Place to place varies. You describe Russia as if it's some Indian village.
> 
> How do you draw the conclusion that Bulgaria and Romania are far superior? It's ridiculous. It's the same way you bashed China as a backwards place.
> 
> 
> Oh the oppression! Oh! Oh the oppression! Tell me,what are you being oppressed off? Are you a Jehova's Witness? Are you LGBT rights supporter? Are you pro-liberal arts feminazi supporter?
> 
> Where's the big oppression? It's not Saddam's rule ffs.
> 
> 
> When did I jump about Mariupol? How many times have I said on this forum about how bad it is that two brothers are fighting and that Orthodox are dying? The only ones who profit out of this are the scum in the West who started this whole mess with their shit.
> 
> If you paid attention a bit,you'd have seen my posts about it.
> 
> 
> Oh and you are powerful in politics? Our government does what? Walks over us? Then you're talking about a huge part of the greek people. Centre-right,far-right,leftists. Nationalists and communists agree on the fact that Russia was pushed to invade because of those bstards who shove a country against them and then cry crocodile tears and start selling all the stock weapons they have. Wake up. You think the world is the glamorous early 2000s European Union ruled by Brussels?
> There ain't no bright future. American democrats and Brits are pushing the EU to buy their own energy and weaken the Russians on their behalf.
> 
> Wake up. I'm not telling you to be on Russia's side,I'm telling you to not count them as your loyal friends and brothers.
> You think the Brit will care about us? The American who smile to the Turks again? The French who shook hands with Erdogan and talked about alliances?
> 
> *Ask the Pakistanis,ask them about American embargoes on their weapons and spare parts during times of war. Go ahead,ask them and they'll tell you. *
> 
> @PakFactor @Sainthood 101 @Bleek @SecularNationalist @TNT
> 
> You think the Germans who brutally demanded cuts on our salaries,pensions and increased taxes will actually care for us? The Scandinavians? Who? The Italians who supported Turkey during 2020's provocations? The Spaniards who want to sell aircraft carriers and ships to the Turks? The Netherlands who didn't even care to talk against Erdogan in 2020?
> 
> Go ask the Kurds,what happened after Desert Storm. When they encouraged the Kurds to rise against Saddam and then left them just like that to be slaughtered. Ask the Georgians who thought they could march in South Ossetia like Israelis did in Lebanon and fell for American promises. And then were running towards Tbilisi.
> 
> Ask the Kurds again who counted on American support and protection and saw the U.S. Army leaving them alone to fight the Turks that were coming.



I don't know why people fail to see how they are always used and tossed out by the Americans once they are spent cartridge. Not once but three wars the American's failed to supply us (Pakistan) parts and ammunition and renegaded on deals literally stealing money. Many fail to see this conflict will only affect Europe and not the Western Hemisphere at all. The Native American's had a saying regarding the people that landed on US soil, they speak with a fork tongue.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Foinikas

PakFactor said:


> I don't know why people fail to see how they are always used and tossed out by the Americans once they are spent cartridge. Not once but three wars the American's failed to supply us (Pakistan) parts and ammunition and renegaded on deals literally stealing money. Many fail to see this conflict will only affect Europe and not the Western Hemisphere at all. The Native American's had a saying regarding the people that landed on US soil, they speak with a fork tongue.


Just like they did with the Turks. They took their money and didn't give them F-35s afterwards and didn't give their money back either.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

coffee_cup said:


> You are all over the place.
> 
> Rich or poor is not what we are discussing here, neither are we discussing where you could imagine to live or not.
> 
> It is about "Free World". And you dont think Brazil as free world? Neither is Mexico, Indonesia, Pakistan, India, South Africa?
> 
> 
> BTW: The definition of being "Rich and happy" is VERY subjective!



I have friends in Brazil. Its not a free country. Its run by a smal super rich oligarchy who opresses tge masses with force and conditions like slavery.

Take your country for example and i say this with all respect. Pakistan has great nature, history and culture. But i cant imagine to live there. I can visit it but i dont think i could be happy there because its too limited in so many aspects that matter for me. 

I give you an example, im a free thinking guy. Sports are super important for me i also love art. As a European i would need to drastical change my clothes and style. I could not say what i think. In other words i would have little to no happiness or life quality. I travel alot and love to visit other places but im not naive and know that travel to a place or to live there are two different things.

Thats main reason why putin fails. Ukrainians fight so hard because they will never accept russias primitivism again. They are free people, proud of their freedom and what they achieved. To live under autocratic regime is impossible when you have been free.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509567043833671682

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Apollon

coffee_cup said:


> Sure.
> 
> The next days, weeks and months will show. I hope it will not come to that and Europe will pay Russia to continue receiving gas.



Oh i totally understand why you want europe to bow to a tyrant and betray itself


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509568467049103366

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Two brothers fighting is Russia and you Ukraine,not Russia and NATO ffs.
> 
> 
> Yes,that's why Romanian and Bulgarian prostitutes,criminals and scammers constantly come to Greece,well done. That's high living standard there.
> 
> 
> Putin has low IQ? An ex-KGB agent who became the president of a country nobody was afraid of anymore and made it a respectable world power? You're in denial. Let me show you something:
> 
> View attachment 829019
> View attachment 829020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who is at war you idiot? Greece? Ukrainians and Russians are dying and Western weapons companies are making money ouf of it. You're Germany is giving millions to Ukrainians but refuses to cut us more debt here in Greece.
> 
> Americans are rubbing their hands,getting back on their feet selling F-35s and "security" to stupid governments who think that having USA as an ally will solve their problems.
> 
> 
> Oh yeah? And when Erdy will try to snatch some islands here,will you come back and fight or stay in Germany and milk euros?



As i said, its hopeless with you but irrelevant. Our government does exactly how i like it to be done and im happy about that. 

Your cutting debt rubbish proves this. Debt is nothing, freedom is evrything. 

And btw Ukrainians dont see russians as brothers. They see them as enemies. Russia again and again has committed unspeakable crimes in Ukraine. Holodomor, opression, genocide. Now is the time to end this once and for all.


----------



## coffee_cup

Apollon said:


> I have friends in Brazil. Its not a free country. Its run by a smal super rich oligarchy who opresses tge masses with force and conditions like slavery.
> 
> Take your country for example and i say this with all respect. Pakistan has great nature, history and culture. But i cant imagine to live there. I can visit it but i dont think i could be happy there because its too limited in so many aspects that matter for me.
> 
> I give you an example, im a free thinking guy. Sports are super important for me i also love art. As a European i would need to drastical change my clothes and style. I could not say what i think. In other words i would have little to no happiness or life quality. I travel alot and love to visit other places but im not naive and know that travel to a place or to live there are two different things.
> 
> Thats main reason why putin fails. Ukrainians fight so hard because they will never accept russias primitivism again. They are free people, proud of their freedom and what they achieved. To live under autocratic regime is impossible when you have been free.



As I said being "Rich and Happy" is VERY subjective.

A child in a dirt poor African country with just one stick-and-wheel toy could be much more happier than a pampered rich guy with every possible toy in the world. So lets not discuss that.

It was about who was willing to work with Russia and you said "free world" would not (for example in case of Ruble payments), so anyone who is willing to work with Russia is not "free" as per your definition, which is absurd.

BTW: It could be said that Germany or other EU countries are not free because they do whatever they are told to do by the US.


----------



## PakFactor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509572084065873922



This is good, let's create an insurgency in Ukraine. I love it.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509568591720505344

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509568723459481606

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## gambit

jhungary said:


> @Wood @mmr @F-22Raptor @gambit @Oldman1
> 
> I have an interesting talk with an A-Team buddy of mine last night. we chat about the Russian inability to enforce Air Superiority over Ukraine. He bring out 1 very good point. One of these is probably flying close to Polish Border and provide Air Defence Jamming to at least Western Ukraine.
> 
> View attachment 828965
> 
> 
> No, it is not a C-130, *this is a EC-130H Compass Call, we use them to jam Radar and Communication, also to intercept communication.*
> 
> Think about it, it's one thing we provide target coordinate to the Ukrainian telling them where and when to hit their target, that should not do anything to Russian offensive capability, *so assuming Russia force is not completely incompetent, there should be a reason as to why they under perform. *One of this thing can cover a 500km radius, which if they are flying from Polish border, they are more than enough to cover the entire Western Ukraine (Kyiv is 400km from Poland). And they are Spec Op aircraft, so they most likely don't turn on their transponder (so nobody know they were there) and 2 of these will be able to provide coverage 24/7.
> 
> Any thought??


This is a grey area.

Providing intel is essentially human to human and any consequence on the battlefields are about two degrees of separation from the 3rd party, meaning US, and any ally, are not directly involved in the conflict. On the other hand, active EW make US and allies direct and active participants in the conflict.

Convention (V) respecting the Rights and Duties of Neutral Powers and Persons in Case of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907

Neutral powers put themselves at risk of being dragged into the conflict under Article 4:

Art. 4. Corps of combatants cannot be formed nor recruiting agencies opened on the territory of a neutral Power to assist the belligerents.​
Convention V puts the burdens of respecting neutral powers on the belligerents, meaning belligerents cannot violate articles 2 thru 4. No belligerent can use some parts of neutral territories for its own benefits. Likewise, neutral powers have the responsibilities of ejecting any belligerent attempting to use parts of its territories for war purposes.

But articles 6 thru 8 can be seen as 'escape clauses' for US to provide *ACTIVE AND DIRECT* assistance to Ukraine.

Art. 6. The responsibility of a neutral Power is not engaged by the fact of persons crossing the frontier separately to offer their services to one of the belligerents.​​Art. 7. A neutral Power is not called upon to prevent the export or transport, on behalf of one or other of the belligerents, of arms, munitions of war, or, in general, of anything which can be of use to an army or a fleet.​​Art. 8. A neutral Power is not called upon to forbid or restrict the use on behalf of the belligerents of telegraph or telephone cables or of wireless telegraphy apparatus belonging to it or to companies or private individuals.​
Basically, we can use articles 6 thru 8 to fly EW sorties to help Ukraine. We can fly out of Poland or any bordering countries off Ukraine or from the Black Sea.

Now that the legal stuff are out of the way...

My personal take on why the VKS failed to achieve air superiority over *ALL* of Ukraine remains with the 'airborne artillery' concept that the Russian military have of airpower. It is not so much a 'failure' as it is a limited perspective on the potentiality of airpower, so the failure here is indirect or the inevitability of that limited perspective. It is like knowing the concept of a spear, creating the spear, and using the spear, but no more. You know the spear give you a longer reach and you are content with the weapon in your hands. Then you *REFUSE* to study other ways of using the spear to make a variant call the 'javelin' or ranged weapons based on the spear. This is how the Russian military sees and uses airpower.

I am %100 confident that we are giving Ukraine all sorts of battlefield intel compiled from electronics methods and sources, this includes from jamming. This allows the smaller Ukrainian Air Force the latitude to husband its limited mission capable fighters and select specific missions where it believes the jets can do the most good. This also means that we are providing the Ukrainian Air Force on Russian ground weaknesses and gaps, including situations that we created via jamming, then combined with the limited perspective of airpower that Russia has, the Ukrainian Army is forcing the VKS to remain a local force instead of a regional or even national one. The inevitable result: Ukrainian airspace remains contested.

Linguists are on these SIGINT/EW sorties. When I was at MacDill, or 'the Mac', the base had a lot more organizations than just F-16 squadrons. I know a couple retired guys who flew SIGINT sorties off Soviet coasts. I learned a lot about crypto and EW. Take this statement...

We are having a great time in Disneyland.​
A burglar would be concerned with only these words: _*'We', 'in', *_and_* 'Disney'*_. Basically, 1/3 or even 1/4 of the message. The word 'Disney' implies time, as in at least three days if not one week of being absent from home. The burglar does not care if you are having a 'great time' away from home. All he care is that he has at least 3 days to investigate and even rob your house.

SIGINT/EW sorties are similar. The crypo/linguist specialist do not have to be %100 fluent in Russian or Ukrainian. If all he can get is 1/3 of the battlefield message, he can get a reasonably accurate electronics image of the battlefield. Even if the messages are encrypted, the radio traffic intensity is enough to give the sortie commander the same reasonably accurate electronics image. Selective jamming is similar to herding in that we can influence the flow of messages which then will give us real time indicators of battlefield activities.

So in sum, I have no doubt that we contributed to the 'open' or contested status of Ukrainian airspace via these EW sorties, which I also have no doubt exists 24/7. From a strategic standpoint, this Russia-Ukraine war is an intelligence gold mine.


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> @Vergennes @jamahir
> 
> The villas of rich russians in Germany got confiscated and now ukrainian refugees get housed there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bürgermeister plant Tegernsee-Villen von Russen-Oligarch als Geflüchtetenheime zu nutzen
> 
> 
> Der Bürgermeister von Rottach-Egern am Tegernsee will den russischen Oligarchen Alisher Usmanov enteignen, um Zugriff auf dessen drei Villen zu haben. Die Gemeinde plant Geflüchtete dort unterzubringen. Usmanovs Vermögen, das auf 15,3 Milliarden Euro geschätzt wird, wurde von der EU, den USA und...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.focus.de



And who got housed in the houses of Iraqis, Libyans and Syrians that got demolished by NATO or NATO's agents ? 



Apollon said:


> Look at Putin, a 70 year old mdiget with a botox pancake face. He has low IQ and is ridicolous laughable.





Foinikas said:


> Putin has low IQ? An ex-KGB agent who became the president of a country nobody was afraid of anymore and made it a respectable world power? You're in denial.



I will add to Foinikas' post that Putin is a straight-talker, no hums and haws and total nonsense like Western government leaders do.



Apollon said:


> Well the free world also happens to be the rich world.
> 
> I could not imagine to live in a autocratic regime.





coffee_cup said:


> BTW: The definition of being "Rich and happy" is VERY subjective!



I agree with Coffee_cup and I have regularly spoken to Apollon about the socio-economic disparities in the leaders of the "Free world" - USA and Britain. Apollon never gave me a satisfactory answer.



EasyNow said:


> I don't get your position on this? Are you a communist or just a russophile?
> 
> An oligarchy, the epitome of a capitalist society with wealth concentrated in the hands of an absolute micro-minority - has invaded another sovereign country. And you're acting like the oligarchy is the victim?
> 
> And the propaganda is so lame is almost laughable - Nazis!?
> 
> India has more Nazis currently than the world combined.



You are right about the oligarchy in Russia and I don't like it as doesn't like the Communist part of Russia yet it fully supports the special operation because not only is it was it concerned about immediate Russian sovereignty in case of NATO's emplacement of strategic weapons in Ukraine but also I think the party was concerned strategically about possible loss of a key territory and comfort zone from the hands of the world's Communists in case Russia was destroyed or enslaved by NATO because IIRC, NATO is thinking of regime-change in Russia.

But I agree about your last line.

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## Apollon

coffee_cup said:


> As I said being "Rich and Happy" is VERY subjective.
> 
> A child in a dirt poor African country with just one stick-and-wheel toy could be much more happier than a pampered rich guy with every possible toy in the world. So lets not discuss that.
> 
> It was about who was willing to work with Russia and you said "free world" would not (for example in case of Ruble payments), so anyone who is willing to work with Russia is not "free" as per your definition, which is absurd.
> 
> BTW: It could be said that Germany or other EU countries are not free because they do whatever they are told to do by the US.



The EU does not what uSA tells us. Or do you claim USA told EU to put multi billion tariffs on US tech giants? Did US order us to drop the free trade agreements they wanted?

Its easy to understand why we support Ukraine. Putin is a threat. He now attacks Ukraine, then Poland and Baltics would be next. History proves you must destroy tyrants before it gets critical. If we dont support Ukraine, we would be attacked next.


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## coffee_cup

Ruble has strengthened further. Right now:


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509422477553934338

The Russians are being pushed back at Kharkiv and Sumy. It will make it much harder for the Russians to consolidate in the Donbas without control of those areas

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> And who got housed in the houses of Iraqis, Libyans and Syrians that got demolished by NATO or NATO's agents ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will add to Foinikas' post that Putin is a straight-talker, no hums and haws and total nonsense like Western government leaders do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with Coffee_cup and I have regularly spoken to Apollon about the socio-economic disparities in the leaders of the "Free world" - USA and Britain. Apollon never gave me a satisfactory answer.
> 
> 
> 
> Yolu are right about the oligarchy in Russia and I don't like it as doesn't like the Communist part of Russia yet it fully supports the special operation because not only is it was it concerned about immediate Russian sovereignty in case of NATO's emplacement of strategic weapons in Ukraine but also I think the party was concerned strategically about possible loss of a key territory and comfort zone from the hands of the world's Communists in case Russia was destroyed or enslaved by NATO because IIRC, NATO is thinking of regime-change in Russia.
> 
> But I agree about your last line.



I guess you also support Hitlers attack on Poland.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509145962836643849


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## Vergennes

Ukrainian grandpas taking up the fight against Russian terrorists.


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## kingQamaR

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509523538901815308



Russia is accepting payment in rubbles and it has tied the rubbles value to gold so Russia has played a blinder hear and at the same time removing the worlds reliance on the dollar for buying oil and gas which negatively affects the US.


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## jamal18

coffee_cup said:


> BTW: It could be said that Germany or other EU countries are not free because they do whatever they are told to do by the US.




The US says to Germany '' commit suicide'', Germany says ''yes''. Turns off the gas.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509196907758993411


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## jamahir

Vergennes said:


> Ukrainian grandpas taking up the fight against Russian terrorists.



Terrorists is the French military which helped in the destruction of the Libyan Jamahiriya and in the kidnap and the imprisonment of the transnational revolutionary Carlos the Jackal.

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## Apollon

@jamahir @Ich @Vergennes 

Putin doesnt care about his soldiers. He let them dig trenches near chernobyl and exposed his soldiers extreme high radiation levels. In short time span they showed severe radiation sickness, panic broke out and the troops left. 









Russian Troops Suffer ‘Acute Radiation Sickness’ After Digging Chernobyl Trenches


Several hundred Russian troops reportedly rushed to a special medical facility in Belarus after digging in radioactive soil in a forest near the infamous nuclear plant.



www.thedailybeast.com






Those soldiers will die a horrible death. There is nothing worse than what awaits them.



jamal18 said:


> The US says to Germany '' commit suicide'', Germany says ''yes''. Turns off the gas.



Do you consider it in german interest to pay money to a regime that wants to destroy germany in the future?

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## Viet

Like doing shopping in a mall

Ukraine buys German weapons worth 300 million euros.






Allein von der Panzerabwehrwaffe RGW90 HH "Matador" will die Ukraine 2.650 Stück kaufen.Quelle: DND - Dynamit Nobel Defence





Über drei Tonnen schwer und bis zu 22 Kilometer Reichweite: Eine 122mm-Haubitze "D-30". (Archivbild)





Die "Stinger" verfolgt nach dem Abfeuern ihr Ziel eigenständig - bis zu 17 Sekunden lang. (Archivbild)





__





Deutsche Waffenlieferungen: Ukraine vor neuem Waffenkauf in Deutschland - ZDFheute







amp.zdf.de


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## mmr

Vergennes said:


> A group of russian forces were totally obliterated in Kyiv. Video too graphic
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509555545237299200


Russians should collect there dead and give it dignified funeral. what a fucking disgrace Russian solders left on open filed to eaten by dogs.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509556792291901443


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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> The EU does not what uSA tells us. Or do you claim USA told EU to put multi billion tariffs on US tech giants? Did US order us to drop the free trade agreements they wanted?
> 
> Its easy to understand why we support Ukraine. Putin is a threat. He now attacks Ukraine, then Poland and Baltics would be next. History proves you must destroy tyrants before it gets critical. If we dont support Ukraine, we would be attacked next.


You've fallen for the usual Western narrative that "Putin is a threat". They're using Cold War tactics to make people think that Russia is an evil expansive country. All Russia wants is security.

Tell me,how many countries has Russia invaded since 1991? And how many countries have the US invaded since 1991?

Now Ukraine,then Poland is a speculation. Poland is an majority ethnic Polish and Catholic. Ukraine has a large Russian and pro-Russian population and it's been a big part of Russian history.

Ukraine is bordering Russia and has ports in the Black Sea. If Ukrainian became a member of NATO or had any kind of military bases there,any ballistic missile or army could reach Moscow and the Don and Volga cities.

They cannot allow this. They don't want Poland and they don't want the Baltics. They want NATO to stop arming against them all the time.

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## mmr

EasyNow said:


> I don't get your position on this? Are you a communist or just a russophile?
> 
> An oligarchy, the epitome of a capitalist society with wealth concentrated in the hands of an absolute micro-minority - has invaded another sovereign country. And you're acting like the oligarchy is the victim?
> 
> And the propaganda is so lame is almost laughable - Nazis!?
> 
> India has more Nazis currently than the world combined.


this indian dude keep tagging but he wont talk about his modi who has massive RSS following, The RSS it self roots in Nazi. 

He is a typical c*** who will get beaten daily for eat beef or even look at a cow lol and then come here to bitch about other countries Nazi problem.

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## Viet

Rheinmetall offers military equipment worth 500 million euros to Ukraine.
Immediate delivery

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## mmr

Viet said:


> Rheinmetall offers military equipment worth 500 million euros to Ukraine.
> Immediate delivery
> 
> View attachment 829063
> 
> 
> View attachment 829064


is it gift or they are buying arms


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509588021905178627
Retreating Russian forces are getting attacked and ambushed left and right by Ukrainian army....


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509121609101156352

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## Hassan Al-Somal

jamahir said:


> Wrong move. The Taliban were co-created by USA and were tolerated by NATO and were enabled to power last year by NATO. The Taliban will be heavy chains in the neck of Russia. Look at the attitude of the Taliban towards the Central Asian countries which are friendly with Russia. Just some months ago the Taliban threatened Tajikistan where Russia has station at least one military unit.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree and that's what I told him about ten days ago :



Taliban actually fought NATO for over 20 years to the point where they won the war. 

Taliban also cut-off all relationships with Al-Qaeda and ISIS. They also committed themselves to neighborly relationships with Pakistan, Iran, Russia and others. Their problem with Tajikistan and Uzbekistan has been they wanted the warplanes that were taken to those 2 countries to be returned to them. This was the root cause of the dispute. 

Russian recognition of the IEA is a step in the right direction.


----------



## Viet

mmr said:


> is it gift or they are buying arms


Rheinmetall is a listed company on the stock exchange, not a charity, they want to make money.

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## mmr

Britain and its allies have agreed to send more lethal military aid to Ukraine to help defend it against Russia’s invasion, the British defence minister *Ben Wallace* has said. After hosting dozens of international partners at the second International Defence Donor Conference for Ukraine (IDDCU), he said:



> There’ll be more lethal aid going into Ukraine as a result of today. A number of countries have come forward either with new ideas or indeed more pledges of money.


*The aid will include the provision of air and coastal defence systems, longer-range artillery and counter battery capabilities, armoured vehicles as well as wider training and logistical support*. Wallace added:



> Today’s donor conference demonstrates the international community’s determination to support Ukraine in the face of President Putin’s illegal and unprovoked invasion by Russian force.
> We are increasing our coordination to step up that military support and ensure the armed forces of Ukraine grow stronger as they continue to repel Russian forces.


Moscow calls the invasion it launched on 24 February a “special military operation” aimed at demilitarising and “denazifying” its neighbour, which Ukraine and the West have dismissed as a baseless pretext for war.









Russia-Ukraine war latest: Germany rejects Putin’s gas supply ‘blackmail’; Russia expands EU sanctions – live


Germany, France and the UK reject Russia’s demand to pay for gas in roubles; Kremlin announces further sanctions for EU leaders




www.theguardian.com


----------



## Vergennes



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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Russian soldiers drowned in the Sumy region
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509540802783023110
> 
> 
> 
> Novovorontsovka in Kherson oblast has been liberated from russian terrorists. Ukraine recaptured previously lost tanks.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509552389547769870



Rehashed old photos...

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Viet

UKBengali said:


> This war has turned into a stalemate now and it is clear that Putin's attempt to overthrow the "puppet" Ukrainian government has failed.
> 
> Ukrainians have proved that they will fight to the death to defend their country and so Russia needs to realise that it needs to offer acceptable terms to the Ukrainians to make peace.
> 
> Russia should withdraw to the areas it occupied on February 24 and accept Ukraine's offer of permanent neutrality in exchange for security guarantees from the West, Turkey and China.
> 
> These guarantees should include the imposition of a "no fly zone" and also unlimited economic and military assistance in the event that Ukraine is invaded by Russia in the future without any justifiable reason like Ukraine attacked first.
> 
> Also Russia should offer a portion of their massive foreign assets in order to help Ukraine rebuild itself. West and China can also help out as they are rich.
> 
> World powers need to step up and bring this bloodbath to an end now.


China is a friend of Russia so no way. In exchange for neutrality Ukraine says will demand strong security assurance from the US, UK and Turkey. Like a NATO member without being a NATO member.


----------



## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> You've fallen for the usual Western narrative that "Putin is a threat". They're using Cold War tactics to make people think that Russia is an evil expansive country. All Russia wants is security.
> 
> Tell me,how many countries has Russia invaded since 1991? And how many countries have the US invaded since 1991?
> 
> Now Ukraine,then Poland is a speculation. Poland is an majority ethnic Polish and Catholic. Ukraine has a large Russian and pro-Russian speaking population and it's been a big part of Russian history.
> 
> Ukraine is bordering Russia and has ports in the Black Sea. If Ukrainian became a member of NATO or had any kind of military bases there,any ballistic missile or army could reach Moscow and the Don and Volga cities.
> 
> They cannot allow this. They don't want Poland and they don't want the Baltics. They want NATO to stop arming against them all the time.



Believe it or not, Putin bombs the russian majority citys into dust, guess what? Not much pro russian sentiment left there.

The rest of your rubbish is irrelevant. Its time to neutralize Russia now once and for all.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509523538901815308





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509518373792755720


The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509567043833671682



In other words, SPFS and CHIPS financial systems are complimenting each other. This is what the current crisis is all about. And it is obvious Russia is beating the sanctions.


----------



## Ich

Viet said:


> Rheinmetall is a listed company on the stock exchange, not a charity, they want to make money.



It will be a gift cause the money will come from the german tax payers....

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## Viet

Ich said:


> It will be a gift cause the money will come from the german tax payers....


Yes from tax payer from you and me, but I think es ist for einen guten Zweck.
Putin cannot butcher other country’s people just because he hates the West out of racist motives.


----------



## Apollon

Ich said:


> It will be a gift cause the money will come from the german tax payers....



I would personaly give an extra bonus.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509591075668869127

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Apollon

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509518373792755720
> 
> 
> In other words, SPFS and CHIPS financial systems are complimenting each other. This is what the current crisis is all about. And it is obvious Russia is beating the sanctions.



I like your satire posts. Is Ukraine also souvereign and respected?



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509591075668869127



I dont want fund Putler. Im rather have to save money than funding that disgusting tyrant


----------



## PakFactor

@Hassan Al-Somal @Meengla @Clutch 

Look at the desperation of these *** clowns trying to recruit Muslims and giving us the *"Wheat card"*, Lol.
Screw wheat we'll eat meat and dates while Europeans blow themselves up. 





__





Blinken Warns Arab World of 'Grave' Security Threat From Ukraine War






www.msn.com

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509437485251706882

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Believe it or not, Putin bombs the russian majority citys into dust, guess what? Not much pro russian sentiment left there.
> 
> The rest of your rubbish is irrelevant. Its time to neutralize Russia now once and for all.


My rubbish? Lol.

The Soviet boogeyman will invade Europe and you're afraid? 

Tell me,how many countries has USA invaded since 1991 and how has Russia invaded? And tell me the reasons as well.



PakFactor said:


> @Hassan Al-Somal @Meengla @Clutch
> 
> Look at the desperation of these *** clowns trying to recruit Muslims and giving us the *"Wheat card"*, Lol.
> Screw wheat we'll eat meat and dates while Europeans blow themselves up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blinken Warns Arab World of 'Grave' Security Threat From Ukraine War
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com


I like dates 😎

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## PakFactor

Foinikas said:


> My rubbish? Lol.
> 
> The Soviet boogeyman will invade Europe and you're afraid?
> 
> Tell me,how many countries has USA invaded since 1991 and how has Russia invaded? And tell me the reasons as well.
> 
> 
> I like dates 😎



US is desperate trying to recruit Middle Eastern people cause they know we will fight and have no issues. But their policies last 20+ years left a bad taste in peoples mouth. 

And yes dates are good and nutritious.

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## Ich

Viet said:


> Yes from tax payer from you and me, but I think es ist for einen guten Zweck.
> Putin cannot butcher other country’s people just because he hates the West out of racist motives.



I cant see any "guter Zweck" and i do not want that my money is used to make some rich by stretching the killing.


----------



## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> My rubbish? Lol.
> 
> The Soviet boogeyman will invade Europe and you're afraid?
> 
> Tell me,how many countries has USA invaded since 1991 and how has Russia invaded? And tell me the reasons as well.
> 
> 
> I like dates 😎



You know what makes Putin so laughable? Just see how he signs laws. Always on TV, much papers, with stamps and much fanfare. Like a little girl in a post office. The show to impress weakminded fools and his tiny ego.

I cant stop laughing when i see this clown and his show for lowly educated plebs. 

Beside that, im not afraid. I licked blood. Putin shows how weak Russia is. We should take it. 

He is also mentally weak. He did hide his little yacht from sanctions.



Ich said:


> I cant see any "guter Zweck" and i do not want that my money is used to make some rich by streching the killing,



What will you do when AfD gets banned in short time?

Also when Poland capitulated to Hitler, did it stop the killing? When Ukraine surrenders, Putins deathsquads will murder millions more.


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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509437485251706882



LMAO,I'm pretty sure that quote is fake.

BTW,Putin's lapdog (Medvedev) was in power,Russia would have done jack sh/t. 

The NATO-led operation in Libya in 2011 was launched under the authority of two UN Security Council Resolutions (UNSCR), 1970 and 1973, neither of which was opposed by Russia. UNSCR 1973 authorized the international community "to take all necessary measures" to "protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack". This is what NATO did, with the political and military support of regional states and members of the Arab League.





__





NATO-Russia: setting the record straight







www.nato.int


----------



## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> My rubbish? Lol.
> 
> The Soviet boogeyman will invade Europe and you're afraid?
> 
> Tell me,how many countries has USA invaded since 1991 and how has Russia invaded? And tell me the reasons as well.
> 
> 
> I like dates 😎



USA invaed two. Afghanistan and Iraq.

Putin invaded and slaughtered in Chechenya, Georgia, Syria, Ukraine. He did so because imperialistic goals.


----------



## dBSPL

Russia stated that it is ready to use Turkish lira in all products to be sold to Turkey.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509440114778427395

And on the other hand:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509590625162833928(The Ottoman state was the guarantor country of the Crimean people and their lands according to 19 April 1783 agreement.)


----------



## sammuel

Foinikas said:


> My rubbish? Lol.
> 
> The Soviet boogeyman will invade Europe and you're afraid?
> 
> Tell me,how many countries has USA invaded since 1991 and how has Russia invaded? And tell me the reasons as well.



The wars Russia involved in since 1991 is rather a long list ,and some of them where very brutal 

But even if it was not.

How does one wrong justifies another ? If one person decides to kill does this justifies you killing as well ?

~


----------



## PakFactor

sammuel said:


> The wars Russia involved in since 1991 is rather a long list ,and some of them where very brutal
> 
> But even if it was not.
> 
> How does one wrong justifies another ? If one person decides to kill does this justifies you killing as well ?
> 
> ~



It wasn't just "one" wrong it was 10s of wrongs. So stop with this 1 or 2 wrongs don't make a right bull.

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## gambit

PakFactor said:


> It wasn't just "one" wrong it was 10s of wrongs. So stop with this 1 or 2 wrongs don't make a right bull.


So you are looking for a equity type of right/wrong argument to excuse what Russia is doing. You want to use US as par. Am guessing this will be on a per country basis, meaning Russia now have 10 countries/excuses, China will have 10 countries/excuses, and so on for every country that want to invade neighbors.

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## Wood

> The Russian Foreign Minister’s visit comes shortly after India abstained from voting on a Russia-backed resolution in the United Nations Security Council (UNSC). Russia’s resolution was perceived to be critical of Ukraine. The resolution failed to pass as it lacked nine more votes.











Russian FM Sergey Lavrov Lands in India for Official Visit; Will Meet PM Modi, Jaishankar on Friday


Sergey Lavrov’s visit marks the highest-level visit from Russia to India after Moscow launched its military offensive against Ukraine on February 24




www.news18.com


----------



## gambit

Apollon said:


> Also when Poland capitulated to Hitler, did it stop the killing? When Ukraine surrenders, Putins deathsquads will murder millions more.


It is interesting and sad that intelligent people continues *TO THIS DAY* believing in the 'All he want is...' argument.

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> USA invaed two. Afghanistan and Iraq.
> 
> Putin invaded and slaughtered in Chechenya, Georgia, Syria, Ukraine. He did so because imperialistic goals.


Wrong again:

USA went to war with a Iraq in 1991. You could say it was justified. It was. Continuing to bomb Iraq though and causing thousands of casualties on the civilian population was despicable.

In 1992-1995 they decided to get involved in the Bosnian War.

In 1994-1995 they intervened in Haiti to change the government. 

In 1998-1999 they bombed Yugoslavia killing thousands of people and decided to hand over Kosovo to the Albanians

In 2001 they decided to invade Afghanistan using the War on Terror as a pretext to change the regime. 

In 2003 they bombed Iraq again and then invaded and occupied it.

In 2011 they replaced the Gaddafi regime.

Before 1991,USA had invade Grenada in 1983 and Panama in 1989.


Russia on the contrary,fought a war in Chechnya to stop the Chechens from leaving the Federation. I have to remind you that there were many pro-Russian Chechens and Russians in Chechnya. Putin was involved in the Second Chechen War when radical islamists started an insurgency in Chechnya and Dagestan.

When Russia invaded Georgia,they did it for two reasons: To protect the South Ossetians who wanted to leave Georgia and unite with Russia and because Georgia wanted to become a NATO member and join the EU as well.

In Syria they were invited by the legal government of Syria and fought against terrorist barbarians on the side of their Syrian allies.

As you see,every time Russia intervened it was in their neighborhood and defending their ally in Syria,which provided them with the only naval base they have in the Mediterranean.

On the contrary,the "freedom-loving USA" usually fought in wars far away for control of the oil,strategic points and influence. They engaged in regime changes all the time and destabilized entire regions causing millions of deaths and immigration because of their policies.

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## sammuel

gambit said:


> It is interesting and sad that intelligent people continues *TO THIS DAY* believing in the 'All he want is...' argument.



All he wants is to take big chunk of Ukraine , everything else was offered to him long ago.

One look at the Russian deployment map tells you that. Those pretending not to see it are either dumb or playing dumb.

~


----------



## jamal18

Apollon said:


> @jamahir @Ich @Vergennes
> Do you consider it in german interest to pay money to a regime that wants to destroy germany in the future?


There is no threat to Germany. If Nato had disbanded after the cold war, like the Warsaw pact, this crisis wouldn't have ocurred.

The Europeans sychophancy towards the US, and accepting a junior role has resulted in US interests overiding European interests.

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Wrong again:
> 
> USA went to war with a Iraq in 1991. You could say it was justified. It was. Continuing to bomb Iraq though and causing thousands of casualties on the civilian population was despicable.
> 
> In 1992-1995 they decided to get involved in the Bosnian War.
> 
> In 1994-1995 they intervened in Haiti to change the government.
> 
> In 1998-1999 they bombed Yugoslavia killing thousands of people and decided to hand over Kosovo to the Albanians
> 
> In 2001 they decided to invade Afghanistan using the War on Terror as a pretext to change the regime.
> 
> In 2003 they bombed Iraq again and then invaded and occupied it.
> 
> In 2011 they replaced the Gaddafi regime.
> 
> Before 1991,USA had invade Grenada in 1983 and Panama in 1989.
> 
> 
> Russia on the contrary,fought a war in Chechnya to stop the Chechens from leaving the Federation. I have to remind you that there were many pro-Russian Chechens and Russians in Chechnya. Putin was involved in the Second Chechen War when radical islamists started an insurgency in Chechnya and Dagestan.
> 
> When Russia invaded Georgia,they did it for two reasons: To protect the South Ossetians who wanted to leave Georgia and unite with Russia and because Georgia wanted to become a NATO member and join the EU as well.
> 
> In Syria they were invited by the legal government of Syria and fought against terrorist barbarians on the side of their Syrian allies.
> 
> As you see,every time Russia intervened it was in their neighborhood and defending their ally in Syria,which provided them with the only naval base they have in the Mediterranean.
> 
> On the contrary,the "freedom-loving USA" usually fought in wars far away for control of the oil,strategic points and influence. They engaged in regime changes all the time and destabilized entire regions causing millions of deaths and immigration because of their policies.



You are a lost cause buddy, as i said if things heat up more and the times come we will have to deal with you like we did with DSE. We had a russian 5th column before.



jamal18 said:


> There is no threat to Germany. If Nato had disbanded after the cold war, like the Warsaw pact, this crisis wouldn't have ocurred.
> 
> The Europeans sychophancy towards the US, and accepting a junior role has resulted in US interests overiding European interests.



European interest is to cull facist russia.

Without NATO, Germany would need nuclear weapons to counter russian agression. Its that simple. Germany and western Europe in general would need to build up its own MAD assembly to counter any russian attempt to invade western europe.


----------



## mmr

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509437485251706882


good the asshole died like a pussy begging for life lol

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> You are a lost cause buddy, as i said if things heat up more and the times come we will have to deal with you like we did with DSE. We had a russian 5th column before.


You dare talk to me about DSE and 5th columns? Because I'm just saying you should see the Western hypocrisy and realize that the conflict isn't black and white? That you fall for American propaganda? 

That Russian 5th column that you are talking about was Stalinist. I'm not a communist. And today's Russia is not the Soviet Union. 

But the biggest chance is that you will bring the Germans in and rub your hands like a Jewish merchant saying "The Germans came as friends!"

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## libertad

Georg said:


> utterly crap claim...
> 
> typical Russian Putin whoreshipper.. with no arguments at all
> 
> RUSSIA never self reflect and asked themself why the **** all their SLAVE STATES from the cold war run under the umbrella of the NATO.... simple reason 40years to be Russian slave was enough for them to NEVER AGAIN wanted to be controlled by a brainfucked communist spy dictator.


 So they go from Soviet Union yoke to American yoke. Which is leading them to ruin. They should be independent.


----------



## dBSPL

Analysis of a Russian state-sourced PSYOP study


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509559707668779016
In the document published by the Russian defense ministry, it is noted that MotorSich company asked Baykar whether it is possible to equip the UAVs with aerosol spraying systems and mechanisms with a capacity of at least 20 liters.

Russia wants to instrumentalize this document to justify the allegation that Ukraine used chemical weapons.

Let's take a closer look at this attempt, which was caught by Arda Mevlütoğlu's bragging detector:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509600002032742400
This document, shared by the Russian Ministry of Defense and the Embassy of the Russian Federation, contains the company's answers to the questions sent by Ukraine's Export Control Office to BaykarTech.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509600011566395394
Why were these questions asked to Baykar? The reason is hidden in the "Subject" section of the article. It is about the "MS500", that is, the engine produced by Motor Sich company and to be used in Akıncı UAV system.

Its contract was signed in November 2021.

For the sale of this engine to Baykar, Ukraine's Export Control Authority needs to issue an export license. For this, there are questions that the company needs to answer. Here is the document shared by the Russians, the answers to those questions.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509600023897690113
So what is the wisdom of 20 liters of aerosol? Very simple.

Ukrainians have implemented the European Union's drone export control legislation.

In summary, the Ukrainians asked Baykar, "You asked for this engine for the Akıncı UAV, but does this UAV have an aerosol transport and release mechanism of 20 liters or more?" , in accordance with EU legislation.

///

Here, we have put forward a large number of PSYOP studies originating from Ukraine-side. However, it should not be forgotten that the Russian side is also working on disinformation at least as much as the other side (even more intensely) and is engaged in many manipulation efforts.

So much so that the pro-Russian posters even here are deliberately sharing photoshopped images and many unfounded claims. There is a huge amount of misinformation.


----------



## Foinikas

Georg said:


> utterly crap claim...
> 
> typical Russian Putin whoreshipper.. with no arguments at all
> 
> RUSSIA never self reflect and asked themself why the **** all their SLAVE STATES from the cold war run under the umbrella of the NATO.... simple reason 40years to be Russian slave was enough for them to NEVER AGAIN wanted to be controlled by a brainfucked communist spy dictator.


BECAUSE IT WAS THE COMMUNIST REGIME. It was COMMUNISM. It was Stalin,Khruschev and the failed policies of the rest. Russia is not the Soviet Union,
just like Germany is not the Third Reich.

The fall of communism brought "democratic" governments in the countries of the former Eastern Bloc.
The people and leaders were starving for money and luxury. They were trying to do all the things they couldn't do during the communist era. NATO and the EU stood there full of money and promises.

Some of you are imagining KGB spies and Soviet invasions just like commies in Greece see fascists and racists everywhere

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## dBSPL




----------



## Piotr

Russian forces killing Nazi Azov Banderites:

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509619179850240005

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509619183323127813

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509619187618140162

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509619190717730829

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509619193708171273

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509619197290156032https://twitter.com/KpsZSU/status/1509619200100380680
https://twitter.com/KpsZSU/status/1509619202906329106

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## Foinikas

Georg said:


> again who is president of Russia? A FORMER COMMUNIST KGB AGENT... with NO interest in democracy, freedom, free spach, free press... all he wants back is the USSR


Former KGB agent. That means he knows how things work in the world. 

I disagree with some of his policies,but he doesn't want the USSR back. All the Russians want is buffer zones and for the Pentagon warhawks to stop undermining Russia's security and economic prosperity all the time. Is that much to ask?

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## jamal18

I love it how the fiction of 'Putin is a communist' gains traction.

His biggest opposition in Russia is the communist party.

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509630424007553028

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509632883165696007


----------



## K_Bin_W

Piotr said:


> Russian forces killing Nazi Azov Banderites:


looks like they are Chechens...

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## The SC



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## Avicenna

Foinikas said:


> Former KGB agent. That means he knows how things work in the world.
> 
> I disagree with some of his policies,but he doesn't want the USSR back. All the Russians want is buffer zones and for the Pentagon warhawks to stop undermining Russia's security and economic prosperity all the time. Is that much to ask?



How can you make people who are blind see?

Some of these people here are ridiculous.

A for effort for trying though.

Putin is neither crazy nor evil.

Objective examination of the facts will illustrate that.

And his personal demonization as well as that of Russia and Russians is really troubling.

Anyways, all we can do it watch.

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## Primus

So since Russia has claimed ALL TB2 UCAVs of the Ukrainian armed forces have been shot down/destroyed, i have some questions how they were used? 

Did the Ukrainians use any EW or jamming equipment against Russian radars whilst conducting airstrikes with the TB2? 

What overall effect did the TB2 have on the Russian war effort? 

How were they mostly shot down? Via fighter jet or SAM/MANPAD?


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509611970042859539

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## Foinikas

Avicenna said:


> How can you make people who are blind see?
> 
> Some of these people here are ridiculous.
> 
> A for effort for trying though.
> 
> Putin is neither crazy nor evil.
> 
> Objective examination of the facts will illustrate that.
> 
> And his personal demonization as well as that of Russia and Russians is really troubling.
> 
> Anyways, all we can do it watch.


I know man. And we've seen this propaganda war by Western governments and media many times.

And still these people don't get it.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509596649353584644

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509641091246665728


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509596411985338382
Previously.. the payment was within accounts in European banks..
Now the payment is within accounts in Russian banks..

The difference is big.. for example, the Russian money can no longer be confiscated...

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## dBSPL

Huffal said:


> So since Russia has claimed ALL TB2 UCAVs of the Ukrainian armed forces have been shot down/destroyed, i have some questions how they were used?
> 
> Did the Ukrainians use any EW or jamming equipment against Russian radars whilst conducting airstrikes with the TB2?
> 
> What overall effect did the TB2 have on the Russian war effort?
> 
> How were they mostly shot down? Via fighter jet or SAM/MANPAD?


Russian sources claimed that they shot down over 30 TB-2s. But the reality is that the Ukrainian army had - if all the orders were fulfilled - 20 aircraft. However, it has been proven that 1 TB-2 systems were hit so far in the war that lasted 1 month. As the Russian side could not produce any evidence, we do not know in which theaters of the war the TB-2s were mainly shot down in the numbers they claimed. On the contrary, based on the nature and number of losses of Russian troops, we can make accurate predictions about which systems the Ukrainian side is using or where it is concentrating.

But I think the real problem for Ukraine is that there is no airport or suitable highway anymore where they can lift and operate these planes safely.

That's why the Ukrainian Air Force insists on an interceptor jet. In the statement published today, they stated that even if F-16or F-15 aircrafts are also given, they can be commissioned with an urgent 3-week pilotage and training process. Even if is limited, Ukraine's having a certain air power may enable them to protect some airports or suitable highways.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509638201526431754

As I said a week ago, Ukraine needs M270 rocket artillery along with ATACMS missiles


----------



## dBSPL

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509638201526431754
> 
> As I said a week ago, Ukraine needs M270 rocket artillery along with ATACMS missiles


Ukraine just need MIM-104 Patriot and F-16s, with some munitions and missiles.

Does the USA have the courage to give these systems them? No.


----------



## PakFactor

The SC said:


> View attachment 829185



"Best White on White Conflict 2022" Winner (Upper Right). Lol, you know what bro, you understand, though I don't always agree with your opinion but I feel your one of the few that understands. I like you now!

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509640881887920130


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509538281167495171


----------



## F-22Raptor

dBSPL said:


> Ukraine just need MIM-104 Patriot and F-16s, with some munitions and missiles.
> 
> Does the USA have the courage to give these systems them? No.




Agreed, the US needs to provide heavier equipment. The Ukrainians have been very successful in stalemating and pushing back Russian forces. They now need the equipment to decimate Russia in mass.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509591487616593931


----------



## jamal18

Foinikas said:


> I know man. And we've seen this propaganda war by Western governments and media many times.
> 
> And still these people don't get it.


After Covid, and now this, I realise how controlled our media is. I watch the media 'news' programmes. They establish a false narrative, 'Putin is mad' and get compliant 'experts' to dance accordingly. 

True journalism is dead.

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## dBSPL




----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509576914402672641

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496818486181609473
And eventually Militarily....

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## Foinikas

jamal18 said:


> After Covid, and now this, I realise how controlled our media is. I watch the media 'news' programmes. They establish a false narrative, 'Putin is mad' and get compliant 'experts' to dance accordingly.
> 
> True journalism is dead.


Most of the big TV channels in Greece refer to Putin as a "dictator" and "psychopath" now or mock him. The irony is that all these years they never talked about him in such a way and all of a sudden they talk to him as if he is a third world warlord.

But they did the same with Trump and others. Every time the TV channels want to mock a politician's speech,they call it a "delirium". 

And they report every Ukrainian stupidity calling them "Brave Ukrainians".

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509621298154151945

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## jamal18

Foinikas said:


> Most of the big TV channels in Greece refer to Putin as a "dictator" and "psychopath" now or mock him. The irony is that all these years they never talked about him in such a way and all of a sudden they talk to him as if he is a third world warlord.
> 
> But they did the same with Trump and others. Every time the TV channels want to mock a politician's speech,they call it a "delirium".
> 
> And they report every Ukrainian stupidity calling them "Brave Ukrainians".


Somebody, somewhere writes a script for the press, and they all follow.

The end of a free press.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509468891671515138


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

PakFactor said:


> @Hassan Al-Somal @Meengla @Clutch
> 
> Look at the desperation of these *** clowns trying to recruit Muslims and giving us the *"Wheat card"*, Lol.
> Screw wheat we'll eat meat and dates while Europeans blow themselves up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blinken Warns Arab World of 'Grave' Security Threat From Ukraine War
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com



Blinken is warmongering individual. This crisis is his own making. He is going around the world, telling people how Putin and Russia are bad and how Ukrainians are victims, when the truth is he and his fellow neocons provoked Russia. 

He also can't stop the Russians from abandoning the fiat money, so he is going around the world telling leaders to not trust Russia, China, and others. It is a desperate move on his part. But in many countries in the South, he is failing.



mmr said:


> good the asshole died like a pussy begging for life lol



He fought and died with dignity in whatever means in his capacity to defend his country and people. You're really dumb if you're mocking the way Mu'ammar Qaddafi was killed.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509621298154151945




Same old photos that have been rehashed again and again........this type of propaganda is pretty lame.

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Same old photos that have been rehashed again and again........this type of propaganda is pretty lame.



Prove your claims,show where and when it was posted,otherwise your claims are just BS.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509606796872331269

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## SalarHaqq

coffee_cup said:


> What is "free world"?



Cynical rhetoric coined by vacillating regimes on their last legs. Smoke and mirrors.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509630282881712134
Russian VDV retreating from Kyiv were totally obliterated

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## gambit

Foinikas said:


> *All the Russians want is buffer zones* and for the Pentagon warhawks to stop undermining Russia's security and economic prosperity all the time. Is that much to ask?


I doubt that. The Russian people have enough problems of their own at the social and cultural levels. But what you are saying is that weak countries that lives next to powerful neighbors *MUST* essentially submit to the wills of more powerful countries. Now, it is 'just' buffer zones. What next? Economic tributes? Who can stop US from demanding tributes from Mexico and Canada?

Do not give us the pretense that you 'disagree' with Poutine's policies. I doubt you know what they are anyway. But what you are doing is supporting Poutine out of being anti-US. Nothing more.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509665314178486272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509665163489816587


----------



## thetutle

8888888888888 said:


> Actually the neo Nazis in Ukraine are doing the same thing as Indian Hindu nationalists are doing, force conversions to the Muslims in Kashmir or other parts of India using any means including torture to convert them to the correct Indian culture or disppear them if they do not.


I can assure you nazis do not want to convert anyone to any religion.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509630282881712134
> Russian VDV retreating from Kyiv were totally obliterated





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509664521245372419

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509642782092185604


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

One of the Ukrainian helicopters shot down near Mariupol. 15 died at the crash site, two survived, tried to escape, but were detained.



Spoiler: Graphic



https://twitter.com/spriter99880/status/1509630708477739015

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509444092979298307

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509446757117272068

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509665015112118275
Azov militants who were identified in a helicopter shot down today near Mariupol: Palamar Svyatoslav Yaroslavovich "Kalina" Timus Yuri Vladimirovich Dyachenko Maxim Igorevich



Spoiler: Graphic



https://twitter.com/spriter99880/status/1509629820828803072 




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509629398953168905

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## jhungary

mmr said:


> is it gift or they are buying arms


Most likely aide, a donation, they are not top tier stuff

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## Foinikas

gambit said:


> I doubt that. The Russian people have enough problems of their own at the social and cultural levels. But what you are saying is that weak countries that lives next to powerful neighbors *MUST* essentially submit to the wills of more powerful countries. Now, it is 'just' buffer zones. What next? Economic tributes?


Did Russia stop Poland or the Baltics from joining NATO? Did they stop the Czechs or the Slovaks?

Why can't you understand that UKRAINE is a special case? Why can't you understand it after all these discussions and hundreds of pages and probably books that you've read? Why can't you understand that giving up Ukraine is not the same as giving up let's say Lithuania or Moldova or Uzbekistan? You lived in the Cold War and cannot fathom this.



gambit said:


> Do not give us the pretense that you 'disagree' with Poutine's policies. I doubt you know what they are anyway.


I disagree with some of Putin's policies. Yes. Why? Shouldn't I? Why would I pretend? What do I have to gain?



gambit said:


> But what you are doing is supporting Poutine out of being anti-US. Nothing more.


I thought you guys would have understood the difference,but it seems that you haven't.

I'm not anti-US in the sense of the Cold War nor the people. I'm against the hypocrisy of the U.S. when it comes to this and the warmongering and biased stance against certain countries,which they pulverized to peaces,pretending they suddenly cared about certain people. This is the hypocrisy that I'm against.

The communist threat disappeared in 1992. The U.S. was the sole major superpower for some 20 years and what did they do with it? They acted like the policeman of the world,talking with arrogance about where they will go,what they will do,who they will bomb,what government they will replace. And now suddenly,we have this narration of "evil Putin,Russia wants to invade Europe,take over the world,communism back again,they eat babies,we have to stop the madman".

Who? The U.S. who went from being the leader of the free world in the 40's and 50s to a "Whoever is not with us is against us" country.

I'm sorry,I'm not anti-American but I ain't gonna love how your governments treated Serbia while proudly supporting and excusing the Israelis' actions in the Middle-East (I'm talking about the last 40 years,not prior to that).

And what they're doing now is wrecklessly pushing sanctions anti-Russian sentiment to the point that we might have WWIII. Instead of setting limits from the beginning to avoid any conflict with Russia or China.

So it's not about me "hating America",but instead what happened to America.



gambit said:


> ho can stop US from demanding tributes from Mexico and Canada?


Who stopped the U.S. from changing supporting a tyrant in Nicaragua? Who stopped the U.S. from trying to topple Castro? Not that they shouldn't have tried to topple him,but then again,who tried to stop the U.S. from invading Panama and Grenada? Supporting dictators and rich oligarchs in El Salvador and Guatemala?

Do you understand what I'm saying? You've supported brutal dictators and strict regimes,just because they were on your side. So you can't go around talking about evil Russkies who wanna topple superhero Zelensky.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509626715101970435


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## gambit

Foinikas said:


> Why can't you understand that UKRAINE is a special case?


Aaahhh...So Ukraine is 'special'. Am sure every powerful country can find its own 'special' cases.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## sur

@sammuel you shared BBC claiming:









Following is also from BBC:





Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509606796872331269





Some excerpts from this *BBC *video:
















BBC further says that political party C-14 is associated with has 4 ministries *including defense ministry*.



*2 of those Ukrainians ministers brandish symbol of "Heil Hitler" *. . . happy now @sammuel

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509655937883246599

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509620051044970499


----------



## jhungary

Foinikas said:


> Former KGB agent. That means he knows how things work in the world.
> 
> I disagree with some of his policies,but he doesn't want the USSR back. All the Russians want is buffer zones and for the Pentagon warhawks to stop undermining Russia's security and economic prosperity all the time. Is that much to ask?


You do know what Putin is doing is effectively pushing Russia border toward NATO.

That is not how "Buffer" works. If they want neutral Ukraine, they would have stopped at Donbas region, not invading the entire Ukraine, North to South and the East. 

Also as I said many post ago, having Ukraine as a buffer by force DOES NOT alleviate the Pressure from NATO, as Russia is already surrounded by 3 sides by NATO. That wrap around is not going to go just because Ukraine is neutral. In fact it will only make it worse, because taking Ukraine, an already neutral state, by Force, is going to make other country that border Russia to consider NATO membership.



dBSPL said:


> Ukraine just need MIM-104 Patriot and F-16s, with some munitions and missiles.
> 
> Does the USA have the courage to give these systems them? No.


A better question is, can Ukraine operate such system? No. 

These are advance military article, it's not a car or tractor where everyone know how to use it and can use it right away, they don't have time (3 to 4 months at least, longer in F-16 case) to train to use those item.


----------



## NotSure

Foinikas said:


> You dare talk to me about DSE and 5th columns? Because I'm just saying you should see the Western hypocrisy and realize that the conflict isn't black and white? That you fall for American propaganda?
> 
> That Russian 5th column that you are talking about was Stalinist. I'm not a communist. And today's Russia is not the Soviet Union.
> 
> But the biggest chance is that you will bring the Germans in and rub your hands like a Jewish merchant saying "The Germans came as friends!"


You are talking to a *20 year old* spoiled kid with no education, no life experience and no understanding of history and geopolitics at all. Here in germany we have a saying: Dumm wie drei Meter Feldweg. He haven't even finished his school, but giving here lectures about geopolitics.

He can't even understand the simple mathematics about energy costs, because he has rich parent and "don't give a fu ck, if he has to pay 10 €/l for gas". And so on .... Pure retardation.

If you wanna know, what the mental state of the Hitler Jugend was, then read more "Apollon". 

And the problem is, the west and germany is polluted with figures like him. Having rich parents and the political correct opinion is enough. Look at our so called elite, like Baerbock, Habeck and so on: They are all more or less retards, but they have the politcall correct opinion and the connections to Soros and Co. You wanna see an another example? Here it is: Hunter Biden. A complete degenerated Crack Head, fucked his own underaged niece Natalia Biden and so on. Got put on the Board of different companies etc. because his father is Joe Biden.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509386829937713158

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## Foinikas

gambit said:


> Aaahhh...So Ukraine is 'special'. Am sure every powerful country can find its own 'special' cases.


Bay of Pigs? How many times did the U.S. try to take out Castro? 

Why was NATO expanding after the Warsaw Pact dissolved? What was the reason? The threat of communism disappeared. Apart from China and North Korea,there was no reason for NATO to exist. I know it's impractical and unrealistic to dissolve it that fast,but at least not expand it to the point that others feel threatened?



jhungary said:


> You do know what Putin is doing is effectively pushing Russia border toward NATO.


Oh NATO just appeared out of nowhere next to Russia? Look at all the countries that joined NATO after 1997.








jhungary said:


> That is not how "Buffer" works. If they want neutral Ukraine, they would have stopped at Donbas region, not invading the entire Ukraine, North to South and the East.


And would Zelensky have agreed making Ukraine neutral and restoring friendly relations with Russia after 8 years of war? And especially when the Russians took Crimea back and now wanted Donbass as well? He wouldn't have been re-elected. 
Besides,I think he believed the West's promises of money and protection so much that he wanted to join NATO and EU no matter what.



jhungary said:


> Also as I said many post ago, having Ukraine as a buffer by force DOES NOT alleviate the Pressure from NATO, as Russia is already surrounded by 3 sides by NATO.


Yes,but like Putin said,if NATO had installed ballistic missiles in the Ukraine,they could have reached Siberia in 7-8 minutes.
Not to mention that European Russia can be easily invaded from Ukraine. The Baltic States are small and enemy concentrations can be easily destroyed,theoretically. Plus there is Kalliningrad acting as a huge base there to deter any landings or act as a diversion.

Belarus and Ukraine give Russia strategic depth to defend and organize a counter-attack. Just like Kazakhstan for example.



NotSure said:


> You are talking to a *20 year old* spoiled kid with no education, no life experience and no understanding of history and geopolitics at all. Here in germany we have a saying: Dumm wie drei Meter Feldweg. He haven't even finished his school, but giving here lectures about geopolitics.
> 
> He can't even understand the simple mathematics about energy costs, because he has rich parent and "don't give a fu ck, if he has to pay 10 €/l for gas". And so on .... Pure retardation.
> 
> If you wanna know, what the mental state of the Hitler Jugend was, then read more "Apollon".
> 
> And the problem is, the west and germany is polluted with figures like him. Having rich parents and the political correct opinion is enough. Look at our so called elite, like Baerbock, Habeck and so on: They are all more or less retards, but they have the politcall correct opinion and the connections to Soros and Co. You wanna see an another example? Here it is: Hunter Biden. A complete degenerated Crack Head, fucked his own underaged niece Natalia Biden and so on. Got put on the Board of different companies etc. because his father is Joe Biden.


Exactly man! That was a great post!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509656389811154949

The Russians suffered huge losses today

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509656265626165254

Ukraine is retaking territory and still inflicting significant losses on Russia.


----------



## Schutz

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509386829937713158


Lol brilliant, always love it when actual dictatorships play victim. Russia has invaded 12 of its 14 neighbors, it's had essentially a dictator for most of my life and yet despite all of their aggression they are always the victim. The same mentality is shared by the likes of China...blame the west!

As for Ukrainians being Nazis...there's some truth to it but coming from Russia it means nothing, there's still Nazis, skinheads in large numbers active in Russia, not to mention the actual country is becoming eerily similar to Nazi Germany day by day.

At the end of the day when your main allies are China, Eritrea, north Korea....you might be an asshole.

And Pakistanis/Indians/China supporting Russia but then having conflicts with each other yet somehow siding with Russia over the west but at the same time essentially hating each other...sort it out.


----------



## gambit

mmr said:


> Special case! Lets fucking bomb them now. Dear great leader is right!! Why dont u understand??
> 
> *Its dumbest argument ever.* What is China's special case then? Vietnam
> 
> 
> India's special case is bangladesh?
> 
> Let's start bomb them too. Why not!


He is using the US 'hypocrisy' argument to gloss over the fact that no one wants to be with Russia. No one forced anyone to join NATO, but for Russia, the only way to 'alliance' is by force. So for him, that more countries prefers NATO justifies a new Russia bloc even if Russia have to violently wrest territories to create that bloc.

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## NotSure

jamal18 said:


> I love it how the fiction of 'Putin is a communist' gains traction.
> 
> His biggest opposition in Russia is the communist party.


He is a RUSSIAN, so he is a commie by definition!


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> One of the Ukrainian helicopters shot down near Mariupol. 15 died at the crash site, two survived, tried to escape, but were detained.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/spriter99880/status/1509630708477739015


This seems to be a huge blow to france. I copy it from 4chan:



> >The recent failed attempt by 3 Ukrainian helicopters to evacuate troops from Mariupol was a desperate mission with very low chances of success. This raises the question why would Ukraine risk what little is left of its airforce for something so suicidal?
> >Macron started spamming Putin with calls, demanding permission to carry out a "humanitarian evacuation" in Mariupol with the help of French, Greek forces.
> >The head of the French military intelligence is getting fired for "failures" to "proper assess" the situation in Ukraine.
> 
> So we have:
> >.ua suicide mission to evacuate someone
> >Macron shitting bricks and begging Putin
> >Head of French military intelligence getting sacked

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## dBSPL

jhungary said:


> A better question is, can Ukraine operate such system? No.
> 
> These are advance military article, it's not a car or tractor where everyone know how to use it and can use it right away, they don't have time (3 to 4 months at least, longer in F-16 case) to train to use those item.


So, does Ukraine have the training, documentation and logistics to maintain the S-400? No not.

The US media, numerous media outlets, including CNN and FOX, and even some senior generals from the European command are voicing this idea. Or is the purpose of the USA different in this request? Here's US' chance to show sincerity.

Or, as a counterexample, are the tactical armed drones used by Ukraine and the tactical data link integrated with this system was Soviet origin? How did Russian artillery units use the combat tactical data link established via Starlink?

This argument you mentioned is the main defense strategy that the US defense circles have been hiding behind and fending off questions for the last years. Instead of avoiding war, the United States supported a difficult and bloody war that resulted in the destruction of their cities, and almost all of infrastructures incl all of defense industry facilities. If so, it should support Ukraine as it should. For this reason, the USA has been criticized at least 3-4 times at the presidential and ministerial level in Ukraine in the last month.

So are we under normal conditions now? Extraordinary circumstances require extraordinary decisions. If Ukraine urgently needs these systems, and if you cannot procure the systems that the Ukrainian army is currently operating, the most realistic approach is to procure from an alternative 'manufacturer'. The US is Ukraine's largest supporter and the world's largest manufacturer of interceptor jet as well as air defense systems.

Indeed, the Ukrainian air force answers exactly your question: The conditions we are in are not ideal and it is not possible to act by the rule book. Even though the Ukrainian air force is shouting this fact out loud, you continue dig your head into sand.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509619185877663747

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509619195268448256For your Q

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509619197290156032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509619202906329106
The most competent authority in Ukraine that can answer on this issue. If you consider yourself to be at a higher level, you should immediately forward your answer to the Ukrainian air force authorities and let them benefit from this great experience and wisdom.

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## NotSure

dBSPL said:


> So, does Ukraine have the training, documentation and logistics to maintain the S-400? No not.
> 
> The US media, numerous media outlets, including CNN and FOX, and even some senior generals from the European command are voicing this idea. Or is the purpose of the USA different in this request? Here's US' chance to show sincerity.
> 
> Or, as a counterexample, are the tactical armed drones used by Ukraine and the tactical data link integrated with this system was Soviet origin? How did Russian artillery units use the combat tactical data link established via Starlink?
> 
> This argument you mentioned is the main defense strategy that the US defense circles have been hiding behind and fending off questions for the last years. Instead of avoiding war, the United States supported a difficult and bloody war that resulted in the destruction of their city. If so, it should support Ukraine as it should. For this reason, the USA has been criticized at least 3-4 times at the presidential and ministerial level in Ukraine in the last month.
> 
> So are we under normal conditions now? Extraordinary circumstances require extraordinary decisions. If Ukraine urgently needs these systems, and if you cannot procure the systems that the Ukrainian army is currently operating, the most realistic approach is to procure from an alternative 'manufacturer'. The US is Ukraine's largest supporter and the world's largest manufacturer of interceptor jet as well as air defense systems.
> 
> Indeed, the Ukrainian air force answers exactly your question: The conditions we are in are not ideal and it is not possible to act by the rule book. Even though the Ukrainian air force is shouting this fact out loud, you continue dig your head into sand.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509619185877663747
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509619195268448256For your Q
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509619197290156032
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509619202906329106
> The most competent authority in Ukraine that can answer on this issue. If you consider yourself to be at a higher level, you should immediately forward your answer to the Ukrainian air force authorities and let them benefit from this great experience and wisdom.


And the don't forget the Nimitz Carrier Battle Group, delivered to the Mariupol port.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jhungary

Foinikas said:


> Oh NATO just appeared out of nowhere next to Russia? Look at all the countries that joined NATO after 1997.
> 
> View attachment 829228


[/QUOTE]
That is the ENTIRE point. NATO was there from day 1. The thing is, who have the right to decide their country can or cannot join NATO? It's one thing it's coming from Ukrainian mouth that Ukrainian don't want to join NATO, and it's another when it is coming from Russia.

Point is, what Russia is doing is not trying to create a buffer zone, as I said, if they were, they would have try to at least interfere with Ukrainian Politics, instead of starting a general invasion.


Foinikas said:


> And would Zelensky have agreed making Ukraine neutral and restoring friendly relations with Russia after 8 years of war? And especially when the Russians took Crimea back and now wanted Donbass as well? He wouldn't have been re-elected.
> Besides,I think he believed the West's promises of money and protection so much that he wanted to join NATO and EU no matter what.



Ukraine is *NEUTRAL* until Russia invaded back in 2014. Have you even read the poll? 28% of Ukrainian wanted NATO Membership before Crimea Annexation and after Maidan. 61% after Russia Annexing Crimea.

If you really do follow Ukrainian Politics like I did, you will know the problem *IS AND ALWAYS IS EU*. Ukraine themselves, like the Finns, and the Swedes, they don't want to part of NATO, they want closer ECONOMIC relationship with EU. This (ending the war and minding the relationship with Russia) is the same platform that got Zelenskyy elected.

I don't think now even with a Neutral Ukraine, they are not going to be "Friendly" to the Russian.

Again, if NATO *WAS *the problem Russia made out to be, then attacking the only country in the Area that is *NOT* NATO member does not push NATO border away, as I said, you only push your border closer to them.


Foinikas said:


> Yes,but like Putin said,if NATO had installed ballistic missiles in the Ukraine,they could have reached Siberia in 7-8 minutes.
> Not to mention that European Russia can be easily invaded from Ukraine. The Baltic States are small and enemy concentrations can be easily destroyed,theoretically. Plus there is Kalliningrad acting as a huge base there to deter any landings or act as a diversion.
> 
> Belarus and Ukraine give Russia strategic depth to defend and organize a counter-attack. Just like Kazakhstan for example.


How about NATO install ballistic missile in Estonia and Latvia? They are as close, if not closer to Russia from Ukraine. It could also reach Siberia in 7-8 minutes, Russia and NATO had an agreement not to post Permanent NATO troop there in the Baltics, and accord to Jens Stoltenberg, it's gone now. *Hell, a ballistic missile Fired from Alaska (US state) can reach Siberia is less than 3 minutes*. They are 150 km away from Siberia....How about Guam, and Diego Garcia? Those place are 100% under US Control like Alaska, and how about US deploy missile there? Or how about sovereignty nation that are friendly to the US or NATO? How about US deployed Ballistic Missile in their bases in Japan and South Korea?? Are you saying Russia should invade Japan and Korea like they do with Ukraine because of the perceived threat of Ballistic missile?

There are places US can put missile to threaten Russia beside Ukraine, NATO member, non-NATO allied and even within US Soil that were less complicated than deploying missile in Ukraine that just as threaten if not more threatening , the problem is, this is outside Russia Calculus. I mean, what could Russia do if say Latvia now wanted US Ballistic missile deployment in the region? How about Japan?

As for Baltic state can "easily" destroyed. You cannot attack the Baltic States without triggering Article 5, which bring the entire NATO to war, on the other hand, if your argument is NATO will not come to Baltic state for help, then that would negate the Ukrainian threat because one would think if NATO will not come to other NATO member state for help, then NATO would most definitely not going to come to a non-NATO country to help. Which negate the entire NATO threat of Ukraine to Russia.



Foinikas said:


> Belarus and Ukraine give Russia strategic depth to defend and organize a counter-attack. Just like Kazakhstan for example.



Lol, do you know what is "Strategic Depth"?

First of all, Russia is the *BIGGEST NATION *on earth by far, 2 millions (2.8 to be exact) square mile bigger than the second biggest country on earth - Canada, the "Discussion" of whether or not Russian would needed "More" strategic depth is probably not a valid discussion, I mean, what "more" can they get? Strategic depth is "Inward", not "outward" it give you time to absorb the attack and organise counter attack, as I said, 6.6 million square mile probably already have all the Strategic Depth you would ever needed

Second of all, even if they do needed "Strategic Depth", you will not get it from a Neutral country, you need to either be a vassal state (Like Belarus to Russia or Transnistria to Russia or Wa State to China) or as a colony. Which mean if Russia wanted to use Ukraine as Strategic Depth, Ukraine being "Neutral" is not enough. That mean Ukraine cannot be a buffer, because a buffer would have been neutral.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509667192710877184

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509662938226909188

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## jhungary

dBSPL said:


> So, does Ukraine have the training, documentation and logistics to maintain the S-400? No not.
> 
> The US media, numerous media outlets, including CNN and FOX, and even some senior generals from the European command are voicing this idea. Or is the purpose of the USA different in this request? Here's US' chance to show sincerity.
> 
> Or, as a counterexample, are the tactical armed drones used by Ukraine and the tactical data link integrated with this system was Soviet origin? How did Russian artillery units use the combat tactical data link established via Starlink?
> 
> This argument you mentioned is the main defense strategy that the US defense circles have been hiding behind and fending off questions for the last years. Instead of avoiding war, the United States supported a difficult and bloody war that resulted in the destruction of their city. If so, it should support Ukraine as it should. For this reason, the USA has been criticized at least 3-4 times at the presidential and ministerial level in Ukraine in the last month.
> 
> So are we under normal conditions now? Extraordinary circumstances require extraordinary decisions. If Ukraine urgently needs these systems, and if you cannot procure the systems that the Ukrainian army is currently operating, the most realistic approach is to procure from an alternative 'manufacturer'. The US is Ukraine's largest supporter and the world's largest manufacturer of interceptor jet as well as air defense systems.
> 
> Indeed, the Ukrainian air force answers exactly your question: The conditions we are in are not ideal and it is not possible to act by the rule book. Even though the Ukrainian air force is shouting this fact out loud, you continue dig your head into sand.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509619185877663747
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509619195268448256For your Q
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509619197290156032
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509619202906329106
> The most competent authority in Ukraine that can answer on this issue. If you consider yourself to be at a higher level, you should immediately forward your answer to the Ukrainian air force authorities and let them benefit from this great experience and wisdom.



First of all, S-400 is different than straight up using Patriot, I can't even possibly use it if you give it to me now and I was trained with Anti-Air defence (as I told you earlier) On the other hand, I would imagine there will be some kind of system familiarity toward S-400 because the Ukrainian is using S-300U.

All in all, I don't think the S-400 offer is a serious one, first of all, it wasn't US properties, you need to have the Turk part way with it, which itself is a complicated issue, unless US have a few S-400 system stashed somewhere I don't know about. Second, how do you conduct such transfer even if the Turk said it's alright, come take it. This is not a box of NLAW or Javelin Missile that you can just drive across the border with a truck. And I oppose the transfer of S-400 as much as Patriot missile or F-16.

Just because some General on CNN said "Hey we should have Turkey transfer S-400 to Ukraine" does not make it an official position for the US government. I mean, since when did our government listened to Media?

On the other hand, can they really fly F-16 or uses Patriot effectively is an issue here, you seems to forget there is a person behind those system, sure, go fly a F-16 when you don't know how, and go on and deploy a Patriot missile system when you don't know how to integrate it into the Ukrainian own defence system and was not protected. Losing those system is only money, there are some 700 surplus F-16 sitting in a desert right now that can replace any F-16 lost, Patriot Battery is probably a bit trickier, but it can do. How about the Pilot Lost? Do you have a spare one with 300 or so flight hours that can replace them? How about the operator that was trained with Anti-Air defence system, do you have people that can do as good of a job to replace them if they were killed or captured?

It's not really a "Hey I will give you anything" in a case of emergency, you really need to know how stuff were used before you can use it. you can say this is an excuse, sure, but that does not taken over the point of familiarity. You are not talking about picking up an AK or PKM in war when your AR is out of ammo, I mean, even system like GP-25 Grenade Launcher, I have no idea how to use it effectively if you are giving it to me at an instant to silent a bunker when I am out of 203 ammo, my entire platoon would have been killed just waiting on me try to figure out how to aim that thing downrange.... and that would translate to loss of combat efficiency in war. And that is a bad thing when you are fighting a war, *especially when you are facing a stronger enemy*.

As for "Professional" Ukrainian request. Well, they asked for a lot of things but the issue is, was that an acceptable demand is another issue altogether. Let's take No Fly Zone as an example, UKAF and Zelenskyy asked for No Fly Zone, does that mean we should give it to them, or even if that will benefit the Ukrainian? Set aside this will pitch NATO pilot possibly against Russian pilot, a No Fly Zone would mean Ukrainian aircraft would also be grounded as well, and think of the consequence if Ukraine cannot launch ISTAR drone and pitch attack sortie, do you still think No Fly Zone is a good idea??


----------



## Wood

Ukraine says all Russian forces have left Chernobyl power plant


Russian troops have left the nuclear facility, Ukraine’s state nuclear company says, after weeks-long occupation.




www.aljazeera.com





Russian forces have apparently left Chernobyl

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Wood

What are the chances that Russia will do it all over again? Western news reporters are saying that Russia just wants to fall back, regroup and strike again. Seems to me like they've fallen back too much if it is just to regroup. Russians are going back all the way to Belarus now


----------



## Type59

Vergennes said:


> LMAO,I'm pretty sure that quote is fake.
> 
> BTW,Putin's lapdog (Medvedev) was in power,Russia would have done jack sh/t.
> 
> The NATO-led operation in Libya in 2011 was launched under the authority of two UN Security Council Resolutions (UNSCR), 1970 and 1973, neither of which was opposed by Russia. UNSCR 1973 authorized the international community "to take all necessary measures" to "protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack". This is what NATO did, with the political and military support of regional states and members of the Arab League.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO-Russia: setting the record straight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nato.int



Glad all the migrants were allowed to cross. You guys destabilised region because French President owned 50 million euros, the civil war gave him excuse to kill his banker.



mmr said:


> good the asshole died like a pussy begging for life lol


Did you find all the terrorist attacks from Libya post 2011 to be funny. Tunis, Manchester etc?


----------



## sur

NotSure said:


> He is a RUSSIAN, so he is a commie by definition!
> 
> This seems to be *a huge blow to france*. I copy it from 4chan:


France was desperate *to lead* evacuation from Mariupol:








Macron says France will spearhead operation to evacuate Mariupol


‘Exceptional humanitarian operation’ will be discussed with Putin within days, French president says.




www.politico.eu







But *Putin declined* on phone call:








France calls off Mariupol evacuation operation after phone call with Putin


French president's office says conditions for launching operation to help civilians in Ukrainian city not possible at this stage - Anadolu Agency




www.aa.com.tr






Allegedly,* there were 2 French intelligence officers* stuck in Mariupol.
Probably either they died in crash, or arrested among 2-3 who survived.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

F-35s in Eastern Europe have been performing some “elegant” intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance missions as part of the NATO response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, the head of U.S. European Command told lawmakers March 30—and he expects the fighter’s presence on the continent to expand dramatically by the end of the decade, exceeding earlier predictions.

Air Force Gen. Tod D. Wolters, who also serves as NATO’s Supreme Allied Commander in Europe, added to members of the House Armed Services Committee that getting more F-35s delivered to Europe, either as part of the U.S. Air Force or for other nations, is “critical.” 

“They’ll deliver a tremendous improvement in our strategic ability, in indications and warnings, command and control, and mission command, as already demonstrated by U.S. F-35s that are contributing in the assure and deter mission at this time,” Wolters said.

In mid-February, just before the start of Russia’s attack on Ukraine, the U.S. deployed F-35s from Hill Air Force Base, Utah, to Spangdahlem Air Base, Germany, to enhance NATO’s defense posture. Those jets were later sent to Romania and Poland to bolster the eastern flank, arriving on Feb. 24.

At the time, U.S. Air Forces in Europe said six of the fifth-generation fighters were being deployed. More than a month later, Wolters told Congress that four are still being used in the region, to great effect.

“The U.S. F-35As, the four that we have right now, are in use, and they’ve been very effective doing some elegant ISR activities. And it just reveals to us how much greater capability we’re going to have once we get our full fleet on board,” Wolters said. 









NATO Commander Increases Prediction to 550 F-35s in Europe by 2030 | Air & Space Forces Magazine


Gen. Tod D. Wolters, head of US European Command and NATO’s Supreme Allied Commander in Europe, said getting more F-35s in Europe is crucial.




www.airforcemag.com


----------



## Meengla

Foinikas said:


> Did Russia stop Poland or the Baltics from joining NATO? Did they stop the Czechs or the Slovaks?
> 
> Why can't you understand that UKRAINE is a special case? Why can't you understand it after all these discussions and hundreds of pages and probably books that you've read? Why can't you understand that giving up Ukraine is not the same as giving up let's say Lithuania or Moldova or Uzbekistan? You lived in the Cold War and cannot fathom this.
> 
> 
> I disagree with some of Putin's policies. Yes. Why? Shouldn't I? Why would I pretend? What do I have to gain?
> 
> 
> I thought you guys would have understood the difference,but it seems that you haven't.
> 
> I'm not anti-US in the sense of the Cold War nor the people. I'm against the hypocrisy of the U.S. when it comes to this and the warmongering and biased stance against certain countries,which they pulverized to peaces,pretending they suddenly cared about certain people. This is the hypocrisy that I'm against.
> 
> The communist threat disappeared in 1992. The U.S. was the sole major superpower for some 20 years and what did they do with it? They acted like the policeman of the world,talking with arrogance about where they will go,what they will do,who they will bomb,what government they will replace. And now suddenly,we have this narration of "evil Putin,Russia wants to invade Europe,take over the world,communism back again,they eat babies,we have to stop the madman".
> 
> Who? The U.S. who went from being the leader of the free world in the 40's and 50s to a "Whoever is not with us is against us" country.
> 
> I'm sorry,I'm not anti-American but I ain't gonna love how your governments treated Serbia while proudly supporting and excusing the Israelis' actions in the Middle-East (I'm talking about the last 40 years,not prior to that).
> 
> And what they're doing now is wrecklessly pushing sanctions anti-Russian sentiment to the point that we might have WWIII. Instead of setting limits from the beginning to avoid any conflict with Russia or China.
> 
> So it's not about me "hating America",but instead what happened to America.
> 
> 
> Who stopped the U.S. from changing supporting a tyrant in Nicaragua? Who stopped the U.S. from trying to topple Castro? Not that they shouldn't have tried to topple him,but then again,who tried to stop the U.S. from invading Panama and Grenada? Supporting dictators and rich oligarchs in El Salvador and Guatemala?
> 
> Do you understand what I'm saying? You've supported brutal dictators and strict regimes,just because they were on your side. So you can't go around talking about evil Russkies who wanna topple superhero Zelensky.


Brilliant ! Too bad no one even gave you a Like.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## thetutle

Foinikas said:


> YOU consider ME a traitor? The half-German who studies in Germany and supports NATO wholeheartedly?
> 
> It's people like you who think that Americans will rush to our help and that Germans will support us and not Turkey,because we're in the EU.
> 
> Instead of keeping a balanced stance between Russia and the West,you think we should be trying hard to impress our "allies" in NATO and EU about how loyal we are to their "democratic" values and warmongering.
> 
> You call me a traitor? You? Kid,get a grip. You'd rather have us align with the Fourth Reich,just because you dislike anything eastern.
> 
> View attachment 828968


thats not the flag of the third reich.


----------



## thetutle

coffee_cup said:


> only few weeks ago, $1 was trading at 150 or so Rubles and now:
> 
> View attachment 828974
> 
> 
> What is going on here? I was kinda expecting it to reach 200 against dollar but it is getting stronger instead.


yes russia has so far won the currency battle, no doubt about it. The problem is the measures required to keep it at that level are extraordinary and will cost it the moment they are lifted. These include 20% interest rates and forcing all exporters to convert 80% of their foreign currency holdings into worthless ruble. Banning export of currency over 10k. etc etc. A bit like South Africa in apartheid. if you as a foreigner hold Russian shares, you are not allowed to sell them. Each measure has a massive cost. 









Putin's plan to prop up the ruble is working. For now


The barrage of sanctions imposed by the West following Russia's invasion of Ukraine decimated the ruble. But one month after the tanks rolled, the currency has made a full recovery and is now trading at levels seen prior to the war. How is that possible?




edition.cnn.com


----------



## Meengla

Foinikas said:


> Yes,but like Putin said,if NATO had installed ballistic missiles in the Ukraine,they could have reached Siberia in 7-8 minutes.
> Not to mention that European Russia can be easily invaded from Ukraine. The Baltic States are small and enemy concentrations can be easily destroyed,theoretically. Plus there is Kalliningrad acting as a huge base there to deter any landings or act as a diversion.
> 
> Belarus and Ukraine give Russia strategic depth to defend and organize a counter-attack. Just like Kazakhstan for example.



You are the first person I know who has explained why Ukraine is so important for Russia. 
People in America--remember, there is no 'West' here-- keep saying that Russia didnt violently resist against the Baltic former USSR states joining NATO. I thought partly because Russia was too weak then, and partly because of the Kallingrad factor. 
Ukraine was important to Russia on some emotional/historic level. That much I guessed. But I see now from a strategic level as well.

PS. Honestly, after the 'press' coverage of the Afghan events in 2021 and after such a one-sided coverage of the recent events in Ukraine, I have lost ALL FAITH in the American-led 'Western' mainstream media and would even question and re-examine taboo topics about the causes of the two World Wars, about the Holocaust, and even about Hitler! I refuse to believe the narrative of the victors and now it is becoming more and more obvious to me there is a Goddamn cabal of war-mongers profiteering from wars for centuries and their narrative must be questioned, however one would look like some conspiracy theorist.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
2


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## thetutle

letsrock said:


> Dude - about 3-4 million migrated from east to west (there were hundreds of thousands from other side too). How many victims in border crossing ? 327 as per BBC : https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40200305 . and this includes 24 border guards themselves shot.
> Most of the shootings were within berlin area- because right in the heart of east Germany was literally a nato enclave. And east germany was paranoid about migrations there - not because of economic reasons but due to military/spy etc. As part of establishment of berlin enclave it got guarantees that it will not be used as conduit for human trafficking.
> 
> If you take out the shootings in highly militarized berlin and baltic sea (where it was mines)area then total deaths are just 16.
> 
> Also it is complete fabrication that east germany did not permit people to travel. In 1987 itself* 2.8 million visits* were made by east germans to west germans and majority came back home.


the reason why most were shot in the Berlin area was because that was the only place you could really cross. If you lived in any other city you could not go anywhere close to the West German border. You needed your papers with you at all times and if you were new to an area you would get ID'd at every corner asking you what business you had there. You would be interrogated and shot in a dark room way before you got to the border area. 

People that got visas to visit West Germany were closely vetted and usually powerful people in the communist apparatus or old grandmas who would return knowing they had family and grandkids in the East.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509738284448382981


----------



## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> You dare talk to me about DSE and 5th columns? Because I'm just saying you should see the Western hypocrisy and realize that the conflict isn't black and white? That you fall for American propaganda?
> 
> That Russian 5th column that you are talking about was Stalinist. I'm not a communist. And today's Russia is not the Soviet Union.
> 
> But the biggest chance is that you will bring the Germans in and rub your hands like a Jewish merchant saying "The Germans came as friends!"





Foinikas said:


> You dare talk to me about DSE and 5th columns? Because I'm just saying you should see the Western hypocrisy and realize that the conflict isn't black and white? That you fall for American propaganda?
> 
> That Russian 5th column that you are talking about was Stalinist. I'm not a communist. And today's Russia is not the Soviet Union.
> 
> But the biggest chance is that you will bring the Germans in and rub your hands like a Jewish merchant saying "The Germans came as friends!"



You chose your bed, so live with the consequences


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509735118415482880

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## thetutle

Foinikas said:


> Maybe move to Romania or Bulgaria yourself since they are in NATO and EU.
> 
> You've obviously haven't paid attention to my posts since you came here. When Russians were best friends with Erdy,I was not congratulating them. When the French were supporting us,I was donning to others here that our interests aligned.
> When Americans were supporting us against Turkey,I was telling people that they have reasons to support us more.
> 
> But like all geopolitical analysts in Greece will tell you,we can't count on them. We can't count on the Russians and we can't count on the Europeans. The Kurds counted on the Americans,the Georgians counted on the Americans and now Zelensky counted on the Americans and the EU.
> 
> And they were all f*cked up.
> 
> You say we are the EU and NATO?
> 
> What are we in the EU? Apart from one of the original member-States,what are we?
> Are we France? Are we Germany? Are we Belgium? Italy? Spain? We don't have a fraction of their economies.
> 
> NATO? There's a lot of stronger countries in NATO than us.
> 
> We are not them. We are a small part of them. We are allies and not first-rate allies. We are the kind of allies that Britain always asked for help before every major war and forgot afterwards.
> 
> We are the ones they will praise for our democracy,civilization and culture and end up being friendlier with Turkey and taking the side of FYROM and Albania.
> 
> And we are still here talking about "democracy and human rights",being all proud we are a member of the "civilised" world,that is EU and NATO.
> 
> Look what they did. Where's their adamant support for our gas and oil exploration? Where are the sanctions about Cyprus? Why didn't they take our side on the Macedonian issue? Why did they butcher us with heavy loans during the economic crisis?


You are an orthodox supremacist and think that russia will "liberate" Constantinople for you? is that the reason you support russia?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## DF41

Avicenna said:


> How can you make people who are blind see?
> 
> Some of these people here are ridiculous.
> 
> A for effort for trying though.
> 
> Putin is neither crazy nor evil.
> 
> Objective examination of the facts will illustrate that.
> 
> And his personal demonization as well as that of Russia and Russians is really troubling.
> 
> Anyways, all we can do it watch.






Or to wake people pretending to sleep.
They snore and pretend even harder.


----------



## kingQamaR

jamal18 said:


> There is no threat to Germany. If Nato had disbanded after the cold war, like the Warsaw pact, this crisis wouldn't have ocurred.
> 
> The Europeans sychophancy towards the US, and accepting a junior role has resulted in US interests overiding European interests.



Actually you could argue that NATO has defeated Putin ,they haven't invaded Estonia or Latvia which border Russia or even Lithuania (via Belarus ) those 3 country's are NATO members unlike Ukraine


----------



## mmr

Type59 said:


> Glad all the migrants were allowed to cross. You guys destabilised region because French President owned 50 million euros, the civil war gave him excuse to kill his banker.
> 
> 
> Did you find all the terrorist attacks from Libya post 2011 to be funny. Tunis, Manchester etc?


Of course not. But zero sympathy for Gaddafi. His own ppl hunt him down.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509751440079736832

Reactions: Love Love:
1 | Haha Haha:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Hamartia Antidote

French military intel chief's resignation seen as fallout for misjudging Putin's intentions in Ukraine


As the U.S. predicted Russia was ready to invade Ukraine, France preferred to believe it wouldn't go that far.




www.cbsnews.com




French military intel chief's resignation seen as fallout for misjudging Putin's intentions in Ukraine​The head of France's military intelligence has quit his post in what's being seen as fallout from France misjudging Russia's intentions in Ukraine. As the U.S. predicted Russia was ready to invade Ukraine, France preferred to believe it wouldn't go that far.


----------



## Viet

Ich said:


> I cant see any "guter Zweck" and i do not want that my money is used to make some rich by stretching the killing.


Ah come, you want Ukraine to surrender because that would save lives?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Prove your claims,show where and when it was posted,otherwise your claims are just BS.











It is the Russian Ministry Defense through their English Telegram channel that refuted the claim.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509751440079736832




The video has a date in January 2022? 👇 Looks like #FakeNews is the motto for the propagandists who support Ukraine. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509752229900828673

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Former KGB agent. That means he knows how things work in the world.
> 
> I disagree with some of his policies,but he doesn't want the USSR back. All the Russians want is buffer zones and for the Pentagon warhawks to stop undermining Russia's security and economic prosperity all the time. Is that much to ask?



KGB knows nothing. Their own shithole collapsed and in Ukraine they fail too



thetutle said:


> You are an orthodox supremacist and think that russia will "liberate" Constantinople for you? is that the reason you support russia?



Yes, completly deluded. He would betray entire Greece and Europe to the barbarians for that

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Trango Towers

thetutle said:


> yes russia has so far won the currency battle, no doubt about it. The problem is the measures required to keep it at that level are extraordinary and will cost it the moment they are lifted. These include 20% interest rates and forcing all exporters to convert 80% of their foreign currency holdings into worthless ruble. Banning export of currency over 10k. etc etc. A bit like South Africa in apartheid. if you as a foreigner hold Russian shares, you are not allowed to sell them. Each measure has a massive cost.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin's plan to prop up the ruble is working. For now
> 
> 
> The barrage of sanctions imposed by the West following Russia's invasion of Ukraine decimated the ruble. But one month after the tanks rolled, the currency has made a full recovery and is now trading at levels seen prior to the war. How is that possible?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edition.cnn.com


There is a cost to freedom.

It's also piracy to confiscate assets of rich Russians overseas. No judge no jury just guilty because the west said so. I am glad western businesses are being nationalised by the Russians

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509763934139691015

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509763806033063952

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## Trango Towers

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509763934139691015
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509763806033063952


Another nail for the dollar. Each step taken by the west seems to add a nail in their own coffin.
Remember the sanctions on Pakistan. We came out with our own weapons industry. Alhumdulillah

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## patero

Viet said:


> Ah come, you want Ukraine to surrender because that would save lives?


Surrendering to Russia will likely cost even more lives in the long run. Ukrainians are well aware of the brutality Russians have and will use to supress any dissent.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509763227386884139


----------



## AZMwi

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509509674407763973
> 
> B-52s can launch up to 20 JASSM stealth cruise missiles


----------



## Apollon

Trango Towers said:


> There is a cost to freedom.
> 
> It's also piracy to confiscate assets of rich Russians overseas. No judge no jury just guilty because the west said so. I am glad western businesses are being nationalised by the Russians



We took 380 billion of them. They can nationalise evrything. We are still 120 billion in the win zone.


----------



## Avicenna

Meengla said:


> You are the first person I know who has explained why Ukraine is so important for Russia.
> People in America--remember, there is no 'West' here-- keep saying that Russia didnt violently resist against the Baltic former USSR states joining NATO. I thought partly because Russia was too weak then, and partly because of the Kallingrad factor.
> Ukraine was important to Russia on some emotional/historic level. That much I guessed. But I see now from a strategic level as well.
> 
> PS. Honestly, after the 'press' coverage of the Afghan events in 2021 and after such a one-sided coverage of the recent events in Ukraine, I have lost ALL FAITH in the American-led 'Western' mainstream media and would even question and re-examine taboo topics about the causes of the two World Wars, about the Holocaust, and even about Hitler! I refuse to believe the narrative of the victors and now it is becoming more and more obvious to me there is a Goddamn cabal of war-mongers profiteering from wars for centuries and their narrative must be questioned, however one would look like some conspiracy theorist.



Perfect post.

I am of a similar viewpoint.

Really disturbing actually.

Given several recent events, the veil has come off.

Western liberal unilateralist hawks have become emboldened for some reason.

The world NEEDS multipolarity.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

Avicenna said:


> Perfect post.
> 
> I am of a similar viewpoint.
> 
> Really disturbing actually.



What you dont realize, Ukraine has zero interest to be under russian opression. The people there despise russia. Putinist apologists usually ride over the interests of Ukraine and suggest them to surrender so they are bound on that rotten corpse forever.

Russian running as Ukraine destroyes their base...funny too watch.


----------



## Trango Towers

Apollon said:


> We took 380 billion of them. They can nationalise evrything. We are still 120 billion in the win zone.


You took nothing. You and your family got nothing. Yih are just a pompom girl that dances when your theirving politicians tell you to. And who is the royal we....oh you mean the theives ??

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2


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## Apollon

Trango Towers said:


> You took nothing. You and your family got nothing. Yih are just a pompom girl that dances when your theirving politicians tell you to. And who is the royal we....oh you mean the theives ??



You are wrong buddy. I made a purchase from russia in february via PayPal and got the stuff but PayPal send my money back. 😅 So thats my personal win.

On a sidenote, Ukrainians celebrating their troops after they hunted the russians out 






@Foinikas those people, the Ukrainians mean nothing for you. @jamahir its obvious they want be free.


----------



## Trango Towers

Apollon said:


> You are wrong buddy. I made a purchase from russia in february via PayPal and got the stuff but PayPal send my money back. 😅 So thats my personal win.
> 
> On a sidenote, Ukrainians celebrating their troops after they hunted the russians out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Foinikas those people, the Ukrainians mean nothing for you. @jamahir its obvious they want be free.


So you tried to buy a plate to smash. See how bad Greeks are? Can't even make plates.

On a side note.i don't support the Russian invasion of Ukraine. But every Ukrainians claim gets debunked in a day or so and they just keep losing territory.yet winning...loool


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> @jamahir @Ich @Vergennes
> 
> Putin doesnt care about his soldiers. He let them dig trenches near chernobyl and exposed his soldiers extreme high radiation levels. In short time span they showed severe radiation sickness, panic broke out and the troops left.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Troops Suffer ‘Acute Radiation Sickness’ After Digging Chernobyl Trenches
> 
> 
> Several hundred Russian troops reportedly rushed to a special medical facility in Belarus after digging in radioactive soil in a forest near the infamous nuclear plant.
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedailybeast.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those soldiers will die a horrible death. There is nothing worse than what awaits them.



It is said if this happened but the source quotes sensationalist and opposition sources so how much can it be taken as valid ? NATO sources said earlier that Roman Abramovitch, who was one of the Russian negotiators with Ukraine, had been poisoned by Russian government but AFAIK he's okay.



mmr said:


> this indian dude keep tagging but he wont talk about his modi who has massive RSS following, The RSS it self roots in Nazi.
> 
> He is a typical c*** who will get beaten daily for eat beef or even look at a cow lol and then come here to bitch about other countries Nazi problem.



Please don't lie. There are thousands of my posts against the Hindutvadis including Modi. I will tag @kingQamaR since he thanked your post.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Taliban actually fought NATO for over 20 years to the point where they won the war.
> 
> Taliban also cut-off all relationships with Al-Qaeda and ISIS. They also committed themselves to neighborly relationships with Pakistan, Iran, Russia and others. Their problem with Tajikistan and Uzbekistan has been they wanted the warplanes that were taken to those 2 countries to be returned to them. This was the root cause of the dispute.
> 
> Russian recognition of the IEA is a step in the right direction.



Please wait for me to open a thread on this.



Apollon said:


> You are wrong buddy. I made a purchase from russia in february via PayPal and got the stuff but PayPal send my money back. 😅 So thats my personal win.



PayPal, BBC, The Sun... What's the difference ? 



Apollon said:


> On a sidenote, Ukrainians celebrating their troops after they hunted the russians out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Foinikas those people, the Ukrainians mean nothing for you. @jamahir its obvious they want be free.



You take one vid of a few fanatics and expand it to mean many. However, we have seen on this thread how the Ukranian military has been using civilians as human shields, even been using ambulances to transport themselves and there was a vid yesterday about the food shortages in one city cause by the Ukranian military probably neither allowing the Russia-initiated humanitarian corridor to operate nor themselves doing any supplies delivery. What is this but a terrorist group ? OTOH in some cities the Russian emergency humanitarian supplies are being welcomed by the Ukranians.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509754185427959808For the first time in the history of Russian Federation, an air attack was made on russian territory by a foreign country.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Apollon

Trango Towers said:


> So you tried to buy a plate to smash. See how bad Greeks are? Can't even make plates.
> 
> On a side note.i don't support the Russian invasion of Ukraine. But every Ukrainians claim gets debunked in a day or so and they just keep losing territory.yet winning...loool



They dont lose territory. Obviously evryone expected Ukraine to lose in 3 days. But here we are one month in war. They do massive damage to Russia and stalled them. Even pushing them back. I admire their fighting spirit.



jamahir said:


> It is said if this happened but the source quotes sensationalist and opposition sources so how much can it be taken as valid ? NATO sources said earlier that Roman Abramovitch, who was one of the Russian negotiators with Ukraine, had been poisoned by Russian government but AFAIK he's okay.
> 
> 
> 
> Please don't lie. There are thousands of my posts against the Hindutvadis including Modi. I will tag @kingQamaR since he thanked your post.
> 
> 
> 
> Please wait for me to open a thread on this.
> 
> 
> 
> PayPal, BBC, The Sun... What's the difference ?
> 
> 
> 
> You take one vid of a few fanatics and expand it to mean many. However, we have seen on this thread how the Ukranian military has been using civilians as human shields, even been using ambulances to transport themselves and there was a vid yesterday about the food shortages in one city cause by the Ukranian military probably neither allowing the Russia-initiated humanitarian corridor to operate nor themselves doing any supplies delivery. What is this but a terrorist group ? OTOH in some cities the Russian emergency humanitarian supplies are being welcomed by the Ukranians.



You call villagers who suffered from outside terror army fanatics? You are a lost cause.

A human life never meant something in Russia.



dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509754185427959808For the first time in the history of Russian Federation, an air attack was made on russian territory by a foreign country.



Good, bring the war to them. In russian Propaganda they say Helicopter crash caused this. 😅


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509765300333555742

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509761638454505481

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Wow Wow:
1


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## thetutle

EasyNow said:


> I don't get your position on this? Are you a communist or just a russophile?
> 
> An oligarchy, the epitome of a capitalist society with wealth concentrated in the hands of an absolute micro-minority - has invaded another sovereign country. And you're acting like the oligarchy is the victim?
> 
> And the propaganda is so lame is almost laughable - Nazis!?
> 
> India has more Nazis currently than the world combined.


Its interesting isn't it, you've uncovered the so called "communist" that supports the height of privatised capitalism "oligarchy", that threatens a socialist EU. 

Good catch.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509765300333555742



Balls of steel.


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509766004590751783


----------



## thetutle

Foinikas said:


> View attachment 829019
> View attachment 829020


Wow, Russia under Putin had $120 pensions per month. That is like very third world.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Foinikas

thetutle said:


> You are an orthodox supremacist and think that russia will "liberate" Constantinople for you? is that the reason you support russia?


Supremacist? When someone supports his religion he is a supremacist? So does that make you a Sunni supremacist?


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509776060472254464
Still burning


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509780179236925440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509783156672581647

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Supremacist? When someone supports his religion he is a supremacist? So does that make you a Sunni supremacist?



Ukraine now strikes back buddy. How you like Belgorod in flames? 

Two days ago ammo depot blew up. Now their oil depot, still burning.

Ukraine not only wins back areas, they now attack inside russia.


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> You chose your bed, so live with the consequences


Are you completely retarded? All these months you saw me talking with the Turks and mentioning our defense deals and friendly relations with countries like France and USA. And now that I'm simply talking about this situation and this war,
explaining how we should have been neutral to this and that the Russians were
pushed to attack by the West,you rush to call me "traitor" and "5th column".

Get out of here.



Apollon said:


> Ukraine now strikes back buddy. How you like Belgorod in flames?
> 
> Two days ago ammo depot blew up. Now their oil depot, still burning.
> 
> Ukraine not only wins back areas, they now attack inside russia.


Yeah they will reach Siberia and go all the way to Irkutsk re malaka.


----------



## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Are you completely retarded? All these months you saw me talking with the Turks and mentioning our defense deals and friendly relations with countries like France and USA. And now that I'm simply talking about this situation and this war,
> explaining how we should have been neutral to this and that the Russians were
> pushed to attack by the West,you rush to call me "traitor" and "5th column".
> 
> Get out of here.
> 
> 
> Yeah that will reach Siberia and go so the way to Irkutsk re malaka.



You cant be neutral against Putins facist war. Its that simple. Too be honest im against negotiations at this point. Russia must be destroyed. Negotiations can be with the interim government


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509752229900828673

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Ich

Viet said:


> Ah come, you want Ukraine to surrender because that would save lives?



I dont want the war at all.


----------



## Apollon

@Foinikas attacking inside russia is extremly important. Its breaks putlers Propaganda.


----------



## Trango Towers

Apollon said:


> They dont lose territory. Obviously evryone expected Ukraine to lose in 3 days. But here we are one month in war. They do massive damage to Russia and stalled them. Even pushing them back. I admire their fighting spirit.
> 
> 
> 
> You call villagers who suffered from outside terror army fanatics? You are a lost cause.
> 
> A human life never meant something in Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> Good, bring the war to them. In russian Propaganda they say Helicopter crash caused this. 😅


On a serious note. 
I think time for when countries can invade and occupy are over.
Drones and anti tank weapons have shown that small nations with smart fluid forces can decimate large armies. Demoralising them and then hitting as and when to make them suffer. Afghanistan was a nightmare for the west as was Iraq. Ukraine is Russian nightmare

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## Viet

Ich said:


> I dont want the war at all.


Ukraine doesn’t want war it’s Putin‘s Russia that seeks war.

If Ukraine surrenders the Russians will put all to gulags and concentration camps.

They will eliminate Ukrainian language, cultures, customs and everything.

Ukraine history will end.

There will be nothing left except ruins in museums.

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## Vergennes

LMAO either it's a false flag attack either Russia is clearly the most incompetent army in the world.  what an humiliation


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509811941178589184


----------



## Apollon

Vergennes said:


> LMAO either it's a false flag attack either Russia is clearly the most incompetent army in the world.  what an humiliation



I dont think its false flag. Its too devastating. Its only big fuel depot in the region and this has big effect on them now.

As for competence...russia orders it soldiers to dig trenches in the red forest next chernobyl. They were never a competent army

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## Ich

Viet said:


> Ukraine doesn’t want war it’s Putin‘s Russia that seeks war.
> 
> If Ukraine surrenders the Russians will put all to gulags and concentration camps.
> 
> They will eliminate Ukrainian language, cultures, customs and everything.
> 
> Ukraine history will end.
> 
> There will be nothing left except ruins in museums.



Bullshit. Ukraine hasnt to say anything. It has to do what "the West...land of the free" told them. And since the coup of 2014 the order is: Prepare for war against russia, join NATO, destroy all what is russian in Ukraine.

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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> LMAO either it's a false flag attack either Russia is clearly the most incompetent army in the world.  what an humiliation
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509811941178589184



They can blow up bridges over Pripyat, and that will be it.

You can bridge over small streams with bridgelayers, but not 100m over bogs.


----------



## Viet

Ich said:


> Bullshit. Ukraine hasnt to say anything. It has to do what "the West...land of the free" told them. And since the coup of 2014 the order is: Prepare for war against russia, join NATO, destroy all what is russian in Ukraine.


Ukraine seeks nato, EU membership, not Russia member club. Understandable. You want to join a rich Chinese club or poor Ethiopia club?

The first has beautiful girls from Shanghai the latter well you know it.


----------



## Apollon

Ich said:


> Bullshit. Ukraine hasnt to say anything. It has to do what "the West...land of the free" told them. And since the coup of 2014 the order is: Prepare for war against russia, join NATO, destroy all what is russian in Ukraine.



The ukrainians i know want to be free from russia once and for all.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509821983089119232
LMAO at the end there's a russian tank hitting another russian tank

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## thetutle

Trango Towers said:


> There is a cost to freedom.
> 
> It's also piracy to confiscate assets of rich Russians overseas. No judge no jury just guilty because the west said so. I am glad western businesses are being nationalised by the Russians


I am glad too, less chance there will be normal relations in my lifetime.



Apollon said:


> We took 380 billion of them. They can nationalise evrything. We are still 120 billion in the win zone.


And its spread across 40 richest countries in the world. and its private capital. I dont care if some western company is 3 to 5 or 10 billion dollars poorer because Putin confiscated their investment. You invest in russia you take the risk.

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## thetutle

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509765300333555742
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509761638454505481


How is this even possible?
How can 2 helicopters enter russia blow it up and leave without getting shot down, but getting shot on camera?

Real time sat updates plotting waypoints to avoid Sams? Electronic warfare blocking AAA? not even someone with a machine gun firing at them?

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## Apollon

thetutle said:


> How is this even possible?
> How can 2 helicopters enter russia blow it up and leave without getting shot down, but getting shot on camera?
> 
> Real time sat updates plotting waypoints to avoid Sams? Electronic warfare blocking AAA? not even someone with a machine gun firing at them?



Its russia, not a modern nation

Good article in German Welt magazine about future relations with Russia. In short no mercy on Russia and Putin has to be gone before relations can start 









Bei einer Annäherung des Westens an Russland darf es keine Nachsicht mehr geben – und keinen Putin - WELT


Über Jahre hinweg hat der Westen die Zusammenarbeit mit Moskau gepflegt. Doch dabei hat man dem vermeintlichen Partner zu viel durchgehen lassen – mit gravierenden Konsequenzen. Die Voraussetzungen für eine erneute Zusammenarbeit sind eindeutig.




www.welt.de


----------



## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509821983089119232
> LMAO at the end there's a russian tank hitting another russian tank



They are fragging their own. Morale must be really lacking


----------



## thetutle

Foinikas said:


> Supremacist? When someone supports his religion he is a supremacist? So does that make you a Sunni supremacist?


I dont like Sunnis more than shiites. I like christians as well, except for Serbian orthodox and Russian orthodox. 

I would classify Serbian Orthodox Church as a terrorist organisation. 

Armenian orthodox (is there is such a thing) should be viewed with suspicion as well.


----------



## -=virus=-




----------



## Foinikas

thetutle said:


> I dont like Sunnis more than shiites. I like christians as well, except for Serbian orthodox and Russian orthodox.
> 
> I would classify Serbian Orthodox Church as a terrorist organisation.
> 
> Armenian orthodox (is there is such a thing) should be viewed with suspicion as well.


Rrrrrright....ok well have fun in Australia. What else can I say.


----------



## kingQamaR

Ich said:


> Bullshit. Ukraine hasnt to say anything. It has to do what "the West...land of the free" told them. And since the coup of 2014 the order is: Prepare for war against russia, join NATO, destroy all what is russian in Ukraine.



Ok Neville Chamberlain


----------



## Foinikas

jhungary said:


> That is the ENTIRE point. NATO was there from day 1. The thing is, who have the right to decide their country can or cannot join NATO? It's one thing it's coming from Ukrainian mouth that Ukrainian don't want to join NATO, and it's another when it is coming from Russia.


Man,there's common sense. Western interests could have tried to avoid meddling in that area. Yes,theoretically Russia cannot tell Ukraine what to do. Of course. But there's also common sense that in the geopolitical arena,this is considered Russian turf.



jhungary said:


> Point is, what Russia is doing is not trying to create a buffer zone, as I said, if they were, they would have try to at least interfere with Ukrainian Politics, instead of starting a general invasion.


They did try. They had Yanukovich. Then Yanukovich was kicked out by a riot of organized nationalists and pro-Western parties. And then there were the Minsk agreements. 



jhungary said:


> Ukraine is *NEUTRAL* until Russia invaded back in 2014. Have you even read the poll? 28% of Ukrainian wanted NATO Membership before Crimea Annexation and after Maidan. 61% after Russia Annexing Crimea.


Yes,the Russians had acted because they saw this as a regime change by Ukrainian ultranationalists and foreign centers. They considered Ukraine's future as uncertain and they acted fast. Was it right? Was it wrong? They did act and took Crimea back. 



jhungary said:


> If you really do follow Ukrainian Politics like I did, you will know the problem *IS AND ALWAYS IS EU*. Ukraine themselves, like the Finns, and the Swedes, they don't want to part of NATO, they want closer ECONOMIC relationship with EU. This (ending the war and minding the relationship with Russia) is the same platform that got Zelenskyy elected.


Apparently getting in the EU is something Russians don't want. For what reason,I don't know. Probably economic reasons. 
Maybe they consider the EU and NATO as the same club in a way. 



jhungary said:


> How about NATO install ballistic missile in Estonia and Latvia? They are as close, if not closer to Russia from Ukraine. It could also reach Siberia in 7-8 minutes, Russia and NATO had an agreement not to post Permanent NATO troop there in the Baltics, and accord to Jens Stoltenberg, it's gone now. *Hell, a ballistic missile Fired from Alaska (US state) can reach Siberia is less than 3 minutes*. They are 150 km away from Siberia....How about Guam, and Diego Garcia? Those place are 100% under US Control like Alaska, and how about US deploy missile there? Or how about sovereignty nation that are friendly to the US or NATO? How about US deployed Ballistic Missile in their bases in Japan and South Korea?? Are you saying Russia should invade Japan and Korea like they do with Ukraine because of the perceived threat of Ballistic missile?


Like I said in a previous post,the Baltic countries are small and can be easily smashed. I mean the Russians probably keep an eye on them all the time.

Yes of course ballistic missiles can reach Siberia in a few minutes from the East. The Americans can even invade easily.

But the core is European Russia. An invasion from the Baltics could theoretically be easy to defend against. But from Ukraine? The area is much bigger. Siberia gives them huge depth. They don't need South Korea or Japan,don't be absurd.

The most important cities and population mass is in European Russia,that's what they want to protect the most.



jhungary said:


> First of all, Russia is the *BIGGEST NATION *on earth by far, 2 millions (2.8 to be exact) square mile bigger than the second biggest country on earth - Canada, the "Discussion" of whether or not Russian would needed "More" strategic depth is probably not a valid discussion, I mean, what "more" can they get? Strategic depth is "Inward", not "outward" it give you time to absorb the attack and organise counter attack, as I said, 6.6 million square mile probably already have all the Strategic Depth you would ever needed


Like I just explained,it depends where is that depth. In the Cold War they had the Warsaw Pact in front of them. Now,they only have Belarus. It's important for them to protect European Russia and the Urals. 



jhungary said:


> Second of all, even if they do needed "Strategic Depth", you will not get it from a Neutral country, you need to either be a vassal state (Like Belarus to Russia or Transnistria to Russia or Wa State to China) or as a colony. Which mean if Russia wanted to use Ukraine as Strategic Depth, Ukraine being "Neutral" is not enough. That mean Ukraine cannot be a buffer, because a buffer would have been neutral.


If you can't have Ukraine on your side,you might as well have it kind of neutral. It used to be on the Russian side,but after 2014 the next best thing is to have them neutral,unless they agree to have a pro-Russian government again maybe?


----------



## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Man,there's common sense. Western interests could have tried to avoid meddling in that area. Yes,theoretically Russia cannot tell Ukraine what to do. Of course. But there's also common sense that in the geopolitical arena,this is considered Russian turf.
> 
> 
> They did try. They had Yanukovich. Then Yanukovich was kicked out by a riot of organized nationalists and pro-Western parties. And then there were the Minsk agreements.
> 
> 
> Yes,the Russians had acted because they saw this as a regime change by Ukrainian ultranationalists and foreign centers. They considered Ukraine's future as uncertain and they acted fast. Was it right? Was it wrong? They did act and took Crimea back.
> 
> 
> Apparently getting in the EU is something Russians don't want. For what reason,I don't know. Probably economic reasons.
> Maybe they consider the EU and NATO as the same club in a way.
> 
> 
> Like I said in a previous post,the Baltic countries are small and can be easily smashed. I mean the Russians probably keep an eye on them all the time.
> 
> Yes of course ballistic missiles can reach Siberia in a few minutes from the East. The Americans can even invade easily.
> 
> But the core is European Russia. An invasion from the Baltics could theoretically be easy to defend against. But from Ukraine? The area is much bigger. Siberia gives them huge depth. They don't need South Korea or Japan,don't be absurd.
> 
> The most important cities and population mass is in European Russia,that's what they want to protect the most.
> 
> 
> Like I just explained,it depends where is that depth. In the Cold War they had the Warsaw Pact in front of them. Now,they only have Belarus. It's important for them to protect European Russia and the Urals.
> 
> 
> If you can't have Ukraine on your side,you might as well have it kind of neutral. It used to be on the Russian side,but after 2014 the next best thing is to have them neutral,unless they agree to have a pro-Russian government again maybe?



They wont have anything pro russian in generations to come. 

Beside that, of course what Ukraine wants is irrelevant for you. But ask one thing...what can russia offer Ukraine? Prosperity? No. Wealth? No. Good infrastructure? No. Just misery and downfall with zero chances to develop.


----------



## Vergennes

Units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine took control of the settlements of Rudnya, Shevchenkove, Bobryk, Stara Basan, Nova Basan, Makeyevka, Pohreby, Bazhanivka, Volodymyrivka, Shnyakivka, Salne, Sofiivka, and Gavrylivka.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509839413928419329
Units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine restored control over the settlements of Demydiv, Dymer, Lytvynivka, Gavrylivka, Kozarovychi, Zhovtneve, Hlybivka, Yasnohorodka, Talakun, Sukoluchchya, Lypivka, Gavronshchyna, Makovyshche, Mykolaivka, Khmilna. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509839281484931072
Chernihiv oblast,retreating russian terrorists are being ambushed left and right.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509842990503714817
Photo from Ivankiv recently liberated from russian terrorists


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509843215079415808


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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> They wont have anything pro russian in generations to come.
> 
> Beside that, of course what Ukraine wants is irrelevant for you. But ask one thing...what can russia offer Ukraine? Prosperity? No. Wealth? No. Good infrastructure? No. Just misery and downfall with zero chances to develop.


What can Russia offer to Ukraine is irrelevant to you


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## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509715239427883010

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## LeGenD

AZMwi said:


> stop posting fake videos u desperate NAZI


It is authentic.









Ukrainian Mi-24 Attack Helicopters Fly Daring Cross-Border Strike On Russia: Reports (Updated)


The raid could serve as a rallying cry for Ukrainians and as another indictment of Russia's competency on the battlefield.




www.thedrive.com













Ukraine rejects Kremlin claim it sent helicopters to attack oil depot in Russia


If Moscow’s accusation is true, the airstrike would be first raid on Russian territory so far in the war




www.theguardian.com













Dramatic moment ‘Ukraine attack helicopters blast oil depot’ INSIDE Russia


THIS is the dramatic moment Ukraine attack helicopters allegedly blasted an oil depot INSIDE Russia as heroic pilots dare to strike back against Vladimir Putin. A huge fireball erupted at the stora…




www.thesun.co.uk













Russia warns that Ukraine attack on oil facility could undermine negotiations


The depot run by Russian energy giant Rosneft is located about 35 kilometers (21 miles) north of the Ukraine-Russia border.




www.marketwatch.com





Personal attacks are discouraged as a reminder.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509862876433235972

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## EasyNow

mmr said:


> this indian dude keep tagging but he wont talk about his modi who has massive RSS following, The RSS it self roots in Nazi.
> 
> He is a typical c*** who will get beaten daily for eat beef or even look at a cow lol and then come here to bitch about other countries Nazi problem.



He has good intentions but he has only seen communism in books never in reality. 

And he has only seen European capitalism through communist lens - he doesn't realise how inclusive, fair and just it is. One of the fairest societies in history. 

People need to appreciate the good things in this world.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509866236930404356

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## Wood

Ukraine attacked inside Russia?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

MoD Russia, [3/31/2022 11:24 PM]
[ Photo ]

MoD Russia, [3/31/2022 11:24 PM]
[ Photo ]

MoD Russia, [3/31/2022 11:24 PM]
[ Photo ]

MoD Russia, [4/1/2022 3:36 AM]
🇷🇺🇺🇦Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

*▫️Units of the Lugansk People's Republic, continuing their offensive, blockaded the northern outskirts of Kremennaya and the eastern outskirts of Metelkino. During the night, up to 40 Ukrainian nationalists of 57th Separate Motorized Infantry Brigade, 1 artillery battery, 2 IFVs and 4 vehicles of various purposes were destroyed.*

💥*High-precision air-based weapons destroyed 6 Ukrainian military facilities, including 5 ammunition and missile-artillery weapons depots in Boguslavskoe, Krestishche, Reznikov, Velikaya Novoselka and 1 fuel depot.

💥Air defence means of the Russian Aerospace Forces shot down 1 Ukrainian Mi-8 helicopter near Lyubimovka and 8 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles near Lisichansk, Donetsk, Chernigov, Korosun and Novomikhailovskoe, including 1 Bayraktar TB-2 near Vakhovka.

✈️💥Operational-tactical and army aviation hit 52 military assets of Ukraine. Among them: 3 command posts, 3 multiple launch rocket systems, Buk-M1 anti-aircraft complex, illumination and guidance radar of S-300 anti-aircraft missile system, as well as 10 areas of military equipment concentration and 16 AFU strong points.*

📊In total, 124 aircfaft and 81 helicopters, 353 unmanned aerial vehicles, 1,839 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 202 multiple launch rocket systems, 773 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,711 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing
@mod_russia_en

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> What can Russia offer to Ukraine is irrelevant to you



Dude russia can offer even russians nothing. Its like a rotting corpse.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509866236930404356




Destruction of S-300 air defense systems of the Armed Forces of Ukraine at launching positions with high-precision weapons


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509808808834613261


----------



## Meengla

Mariupol has almost fallen and when almost all civilians have left the city, I believe Russians will pulverize any leftover resistance. Ukraine tried to vainly made the city another Stalingrad symbol. It was foolish and cruel. Weeks ago an offer was extended that even soldiers would be allowed to leave with their weapons. Russia wanted the city badly and would do anything to grab the city. 
Pity those who died due to some false pride and vanity of people like Zellenskyy prodded by his foreign handlers. The bloodbath and the destruction in Mariupol didn't have to be on this scale. Armies lose battles all the time and do tactical retreats or outright surrender when odds are insurmountable. 










Ukraine Live Updates: Some Evacuations Begin in Besieged City of Mariupol, Official Says


The mayor’s office said buses had left the city, although the International Committee of the Red Cross warned that the effort remained “extremely complex.” Two Ukrainian helicopters crossed into Russian territory and fired on an oil depot, the first time Russia has reported a Ukrainian airstrike...




www.nytimes.com





An evacuation effort from the port city of Mariupol was at least partly underway on Friday for civilians trapped for weeks by a Russian siege, according to an adviser to the mayor’s office, who said buses with civilians had left the city.

Russia had agreed to open the humanitarian corridor for the city, lifting a siege that has become a symbol of Ukraine’s agony, but the International Committee of the Red Cross warned that the effort to evacuate civilians from the city of Mariupol “remains extremely complex,” suggesting that a full evacuation was not yet underway.

On the military front, Ukrainian helicopters, flying low, crossed into Russian territory early Friday and fired on an oil depot in the city of Belgorod, according to a Russian regional governor. The airstrike, which would be a first for Ukrainian forces since Russia’s invasion began on Feb. 24, appeared to be an embarrassment for Moscow.

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## Vergennes

Borodyanka (Kyiv) cleared from Russian/Chechen terrorists.







Few weeks ago Kadyrov's lapdogs were filming themselves there.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500756689875787780

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509860162412056578


MoD Russia, [4/1/2022 6:15 AM]
[ Video ]
*🇷🇺Russian servicemen have seized T-64 tanks that had been abandoned by the Ukrainian Armed Forces near Chernigov.

▫️Unlike the basis combat vehicles, these tanks are equipped with night-time thermal imaging sights and observation devices, as well as NATO-style communication and navigation equipment.*

▫️As Russian Armed Forces units approached, the AFU tankers hastily abandoned the new upgraded vehicles.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #UAV
@mod_russia_en

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## Apollon

Meengla said:


> Mariupol has almost fallen and when almost all civilians have left the city, I believe Russians will pulverize any leftover resistance. Ukraine tried to vainly made the city another Stalingrad symbol. It was foolish and cruel. Weeks ago an offer was extended that even soldiers would be allowed to leave with their weapons. Russia wanted the city badly and would do anything to grab the city.
> Pity those who died due to some false pride and vanity of people like Zellenskyy prodded by his foreign handlers. The bloodbath and the destruction in Mariupol didn't have to be on this scale. Armies lose battles all the time and do tactical retreats or outright surrender when odds are insurmountable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine Live Updates: Some Evacuations Begin in Besieged City of Mariupol, Official Says
> 
> 
> The mayor’s office said buses had left the city, although the International Committee of the Red Cross warned that the effort remained “extremely complex.” Two Ukrainian helicopters crossed into Russian territory and fired on an oil depot, the first time Russia has reported a Ukrainian airstrike...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An evacuation effort from the port city of Mariupol was at least partly underway on Friday for civilians trapped for weeks by a Russian siege, according to an adviser to the mayor’s office, who said buses with civilians had left the city.
> 
> Russia had agreed to open the humanitarian corridor for the city, lifting a siege that has become a symbol of Ukraine’s agony, but the International Committee of the Red Cross warned that the effort to evacuate civilians from the city of Mariupol “remains extremely complex,” suggesting that a full evacuation was not yet underway.
> 
> On the military front, Ukrainian helicopters, flying low, crossed into Russian territory early Friday and fired on an oil depot in the city of Belgorod, according to a Russian regional governor. The airstrike, which would be a first for Ukrainian forces since Russia’s invasion began on Feb. 24, appeared to be an embarrassment for Moscow.



Mariupol did not fall, Putin destroyed the city. There is nothing left for him to conquer. 4 weeks of war, extreme losses for russia. Not one big city under russian controle and all they have is ash and dust.



Vergennes said:


> Borodyanka (Kyiv) cleared from Russian/Chechen terrorists.
> 
> View attachment 829382
> 
> 
> Few weeks ago Kadyrov's lapdogs were filming themselves there.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500756689875787780



Civilisation returned to Borodyanka


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509763227386884139


----------



## Vergennes

Columns of retreating russians are being ambushed and attacked left and right. Give them no rest



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509872825154392080

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## Wood

Vergennes said:


> Borodyanka (Kyiv) cleared from Russian/Chechen terrorists.
> 
> View attachment 829382
> 
> 
> Few weeks ago Kadyrov's lapdogs were filming themselves there.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500756689875787780


I thought that the tiktok troops are hardcore never give up fighters who don't concede ground?

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## Viet

On the official channel of the Bundeswehr 

Interview with a panzer general of the German tank army. To be successful Putin’s invasion army must exceed Ukraine defender by 3:1 in open battlefields, 10:1 in urban areas like Kiev, Mariupol, Kherson.
By this calculation Putin would need one million men, must mobilize all reserves and recruits.
Viewers may notice the Wehrmacht panzer armies were operating in Ukraine some time ago.

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## mmr

Wood said:


> I thought that the tiktok troops are hardcore never give up fighters who don't concede ground?


They are social media influencers lol

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## Trango Towers

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509821983089119232
> LMAO at the end there's a russian tank hitting another russian tank


In the heat of battle all kind of things happen. Men are running for their lives.


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Dude russia can offer even russians nothing. Its like a rotting corpse.


Hitler thought the same.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509861844432961536

The Russians are retreating en mass from the Kyiv region

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## Meengla

Apollon said:


> Mariupol did not fall, Putin destroyed the city. There is nothing left for him to conquer. 4 weeks of war, extreme losses for russia. Not one big city under russian controle and all they have is ash and dust.



You may be right. *But you know that under the dust and debris of the destroyed cities like Mariupol is real land!!* Mariupol provides Putin land connectivity from Crimea to Donbas. BTW, an Indian anchor Arnab Goswami said a couple of days ago that Russians are only 35-40 KM from even Odessa.

Look: Pakistan has no dog in this fight. I personally care for the bloodshed to end asap, just as I had followed and cared for the Rwandan massacres in the 1990s and many since then. A weaker Russia may be in Pakistan's interests. But I wouldn't stoop to the lows of geopolitics to condone senseless killings.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509899020730257411


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## LeGenD

sur said:


> I must admit that it takes a hell lot of courage to go on missions like that. And like the one they did in Mariupol.
> These people are fighters no doubt. Both sides.


Agreed.

It also shows that helicopters can be used to infiltrate heavily defended spaces with good planning and NAP-of-the-earth technique. This is something that scores of members here struggle to digest.

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## jhungary

Foinikas said:


> Man,there's common sense. Western interests could have tried to avoid meddling in that area. Yes,theoretically Russia cannot tell Ukraine what to do. Of course. But there's also common sense that in the geopolitical arena,this is considered Russian turf.



Again, that explained nothing in term of Russian Strategic Threat.

First of all, Ukraine had already applied and rejected twice by NATO. Sure, if it was Ukraine who want to join, and NATO is willing to accept, then what you said would make sense, but this is not that case because NATO had rejected Ukraine membership twice (in 2008 and 2015) and there are no plan for NATO to accept Ukraine as a member in any term of future, not just near future. In terms of NATO membership, the packing order goes Kosovo, then Georgia, then Ukraine.

This is not about Geopolitical need for Russia, they wanted Ukraine to remain neutral, they are, because NATO rejected their application.


Foinikas said:


> They did try. They had Yanukovich. Then Yanukovich was kicked out by a riot of organized nationalists and pro-Western parties. And then there were the Minsk agreements.



As I said before Yanukovych government is NOT Majority, the government was dissolved before Maidan and that is because Tymoshenko's party pulled out of the power sharing deal, without Tymoshenko Party, Yanukovych government would lost both Presidential Majority (which accounts for nothing because he would still be president until next election) and Parliament Majority (Which would dissolve the government and trigger a re-election)









2010 Ukrainian presidential election - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





On the other hand, Zelenskyy is probably the MOST pro-Russian president after Maidan, he is ethnic Russian, he speak Russian and he was hail from a Russian Speaking South near Crimea. Did you see Putin try to works with him?



Foinikas said:


> Yes,the Russians had acted because they saw this as a regime change by Ukrainian ultranationalists and foreign centers. They considered Ukraine's future as uncertain and they acted fast. Was it right? Was it wrong? They did act and took Crimea back.



Problem is, Russian is also "Foreign" to Ukraine.

Just because they annexed Crimea, does not mean what they did is right. If so, how about the US start annexing Cuba or Part of Mexico? Or Venezuela because of the Preceived threat offered from these countries? What would you say about that?



Foinikas said:


> Apparently getting in the EU is something Russians don't want. For what reason,I don't know. Probably economic reasons.
> Maybe they consider the EU and NATO as the same club in a way.



So then what exactly the problem for Russia then? Or you are telling me Russia do not understand the basic different between EU and NATO??



Foinikas said:


> Like I said in a previous post,the Baltic countries are small and can be easily smashed. I mean the Russians probably keep an eye on them all the time.
> 
> Yes of course ballistic missiles can reach Siberia in a few minutes from the East. The Americans can even invade easily.
> 
> But the core is European Russia. An invasion from the Baltics could theoretically be easy to defend against. But from Ukraine? The area is much bigger. Siberia gives them huge depth. They don't need South Korea or Japan,don't be absurd.
> 
> The most important cities and population mass is in European Russia,that's what they want to protect the most.



What you failed to see is that there are 3 landmass NATO can invade if they choose to, Ukraine is not even one of them. They can go over the Baltic, they can go over the Bering Strait, and they can go over Finnish Border.

Why Ukraine is not one of them you would ask? Did you see how hard it is for Russia to invade Ukraine? The reverse will also be true because soil is not going to be harder and favor one side over the other. It's going to be the same going in either direction. 

There are also a sea route from Turkey (Which is a NATO member) via Black Sea, and another Sea Route via Baltics.

If NATO wanted to Invade, they can choose either one of the 5, or they can choose all 5. Which make Ukraine more than Redundant in any of the scenario you can think of.

And funny how you discounted Japan and South Korea while focus on Ukraine.

But then this is beside the point, the point is, Threat Level is not going to go away for Russia even with Ukraine at their side (Which is now basically no way this will happen) NATO already fronting Russia in 3 sides, about to be 4 if and when Finland join NATO, which is highly likely now seeing 58% of Finns wants it.



Foinikas said:


> Like I just explained,it depends where is that depth. In the Cold War they had the Warsaw Pact in front of them. Now,they only have Belarus. It's important for them to protect European Russia and the Urals.



Warsaw pact is the Entire Soviet Union, Warsaw pact nation are not neutral toward either the West or Soviet Russia. And as I said you don't understand what is the definition of strategic depth. Russia is probably the last country on earth that needed more. And just because they wanted Ukraine, does not mean Ukraine have to give it to them, hence this war.



Foinikas said:


> If you can't have Ukraine on your side,you might as well have it kind of neutral. It used to be on the Russian side,but after 2014 the next best thing is to have them neutral,unless they agree to have a pro-Russian government again maybe?



LOL, you think the Ukrainian will ever elect a Pro-Russian regime?

Also, it was never on Russian side since they split, the only time they elected an out-right Pro-Russian leader is in 2010, and that's wasn't even a majority win, and is marred with Election Fraud.

The guy before Yanukovych is not Pro-Russia (He was poisoned by FSB), the guy after Yanukovych is not pro-Russia either. And if Ukraine is really Pro-Russia, they would not choose to go their separate way from Russia in 1991 when they were offered a chance of independent.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509894922928803841

Russian forces are evaporating in the Kyiv region


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509897324021047302

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Hitler thought the same.



Hitler was right in that. Just 5 years after the war even eastern Germany surpassed Russia in economic strength and nutrition.

Russia is a shithole and always was. Why you think nobody goes there?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509905741230100481

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## Apollon

Meengla said:


> You may be right. *But you know that under the dust and debris of the destroyed cities like Mariupol is real land!!* Mariupol provides Putin land connectivity from Crimea to Donbas. BTW, an Indian anchor Arnab Goswami said a couple of days ago that Russians are only 35-40 KM from even Odessa.
> 
> Look: Pakistan has no dog in this fight. I personally care for the bloodshed to end asap, just as I had followed and cared for the Rwandan massacres in the 1990s and many since then. A weaker Russia may be in Pakistan's interests. But I wouldn't stoop to the lows of geopolitics to condone senseless killings.



Russia wanted to take Odessa but simply was to weak to reach it. Its ships got destroyed so they gave up sea operation and their forces were wasted at Mariupol.


----------



## jhungary




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509848845555015685

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Hitler was right in that. Just 5 years after the war even eastern Germany surpassed Russia in economic strength and nutrition.
> 
> Russia is a shithole and always was. Why you think nobody goes there?


Your extreme racism is getting tiresome. 

Every place except Aryan Germany is a shithole for you. Turkey,Persia,China,
the Arab world,southeast Asia etc.

It's extremely tiresome.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509883144396283904

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## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509883144396283904


wining Ukraine in 3 days lol

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509848845555015685


The number of lives and the value of infrastructure damaged by this foolishness is mind boggling.

I wish someone can post about how this retreat from Kyiv is spun in Russian state media by right wing pundits. Videos of their commentary with some subs will be greatly appreciated

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Your extreme racism is getting tiresome.
> 
> Every place except Aryan Germany is a shithole for you. Turkey,Persia,China,
> the Arab world,southeast Asia etc.
> 
> It's extremely tiresome.



Ahh the Putler racist card. 

You also follow the racist trope to make me a German now because my father is German? Im in both cultures Greek and German. Your problem is, you dont travel, propably because of low income. In your religious madness you see russia as some orthodox heaven and dream about taking constantinople. Russia is dirt poor. pensions are 130€ a month. The country is falling apart. East of the Ural mountains is nothing. 

They also wont get Constantinople, they cant even get Odessa or Mariupol.

You know what disturbs me? You see those barbarians destroy a city build by greeks, with a greek name. You see them sending even most vile savages to destroy churches. But it somehow doesnt reach you. Putin could send in DAESH or Taliban to pillage and rape and you would still clap and dance.

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## jhungary

Wood said:


> The number of lives and the value of infrastructure damaged by this foolishness is mind boggling.
> 
> I wish someone can post about how this retreat from Kyiv is spun in Russian state media by right wing pundits. Videos of their commentary with some subs will be greatly appreciated


Russian state TV said everything is going great, they didn't mention much on "retreating" from Kyiv, they did casually mentioned troop are pulling out of Kyiv because of the completion of first stage of their special military operation. 

You really should join VK, there are a lot of crazy people there will tell you everything is going to plan, even when an entire regiment is being wipe out as we speak...

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509783872514543616
- Retired Australian Army Major General




> There are many explanations for why he embarked on this war, including the role of NATO and demands for a new security order, but at its heart this was always about Ukraine, and Putin’s inability to accept it as an independent state that was escaping from its historic ties to Russia as it turned to the West.


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## Constantin84

Plans should allready be made on how to use the 300 billion dollars seized from Russia for the reconstruction of Ukraine.

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## gambit

jhungary said:


> First of all, Ukraine had already applied and *rejected twice by NATO*.
> 
> ...*NATO had rejected Ukraine membership twice (in 2008 and 2015)* and there are no plan for NATO to accept Ukraine as a member in any term of future, not just near future.
> 
> This is not about Geopolitical need for Russia, they wanted Ukraine to remain neutral, they are, because *NATO rejected their application*.


Maybe he is not so good at using keywords search so you may need to hold his (virtual) hands and lead him to those links.


----------



## Soldier35

Today, two Ukrainian MI-24 helicopters flew into Russian airspace and attacked an oil depot in Belgorod. It was difficult to spot the helicopters because they were flying at an ultra-low altitude, the oil storage was hit by unguided S-8 missiles. Strong fire breaks out at oil depot in Belgorod






Uran-6 robots delivered by Russia to Ukraine. Robot "Uran-6" - an armored robotic tracked vehicle, began to destroy mines and other explosive objects in Ukraine and Donbass, without endangering the life and health of people. Despite its size, Uran-6 is capable of towing even a 40-ton tank. The main task of the sapper robot is to make passages in minefields and quickly clear mine areas. The cleanliness of minesweeping is about 95%.






Continuous fire from RPGs on the Armed Forces of Ukraine was carried out by Russian fighters of the unit of the National Guard of the Chechen Republic

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## Constantin84

Soldier35 said:


> Today, two Ukrainian MI-24 helicopters flew into Russian airspace and attacked an oil depot in Belgorod. It was difficult to spot the helicopters because they were flying at an ultra-low altitude, the oil storage was hit by unguided S-8 missiles. Strong fire breaks out at oil depot in Belgorod
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uran-6 robots delivered by Russia to Ukraine. Robot "Uran-6" - an armored robotic tracked vehicle, began to destroy mines and other explosive objects in Ukraine and Donbass, without endangering the life and health of people. Despite its size, Uran-6 is capable of towing even a 40-ton tank. The main task of the sapper robot is to make passages in minefields and quickly clear mine areas. The cleanliness of minesweeping is about 95%.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Continuous fire from RPGs on the Armed Forces of Ukraine was carried out by Russian fighters of the unit of the National Guard of the Chechen Republic


Mad skills and courage from the Ukrainians. They keep surprising me every day

Apparently the Russians are very upset about the attack, they've said it will affect the peace negotiations. How ill mannered of these Ukrainians to defend themselves

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509916098682048519

The Russian losses coming out of the Kyiv region are massive the last few days.

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## Viet

Germany green lights the resell of 58 light tanks to Ukraine.















Deutschland genehmigt Panzerlieferung an die Ukraine


Bundesverteidigungsministerin Christine Lambrecht (SPD) genehmigt die Lieferung von 58 Schützenpanzer an die Ukraine, wie die "Welt" berichtet. Die gepanzerten Fahrzeuge stammen noch aus DDR-Beständen.



web.de

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> You also follow the racist trope to make me a German now because my father is German? Im in both cultures Greek and German.


Not because of your father,but because you constantly praise Germany and central and Western Europe as unparalleled jewels of humanity's history. Best places on earth and all the like. Real democracy and freedom etc.



Apollon said:


> Your problem is, you dont travel, propably because of low income.


I had a loooot of chances,but didn't travel. 



Apollon said:


> In your religious madness you see russia as some orthodox heaven and dream about taking constantinople. Russia is dirt poor. pensions are 130€ a month. The country is falling apart. East of the Ural mountains is nothing.


My religious madness? Because I'm simply talking about Western hypocrisy? How many times do I have to make it clear? 
Did you see me support Russia when they were best friends with Erdogan? No,you weren't saying anything then. 
Russia has a big role to play in the future and I'm not talking about Constantinople. 



Apollon said:


> They also wont get Constantinople, they cant even get Odessa or Mariupol.


You don't know how things turn out in the future. 



Apollon said:


> You know what disturbs me? You see those barbarians destroy a city build by greeks, with a greek name. You see them sending even most vile savages to destroy churches


Which vile savages destroyed churches? Do you know about the vile savages Ukrainians sent in 2015 to "pacify" Donbass? 



Apollon said:


> Putin could send in DAESH or Taliban to pillage and rape and you would still clap and dance.


Stop being an idiot. Putin FOUGHT these savages in Syria and you're here clapping for the ones who provided them with training,money and weapons. That's exactly what you're doing. You're nagging about Putin who fought radical Sunnis and islamist terrorists in Syria and you're supporting the ones who ARMED these people in the first place!

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## Messerschmitt

Comrades, how is the invasion special military operation going?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509911975622492161

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509918958606241794

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Not because of your father,but because you constantly praise Germany and central and Western Europe as unparalleled jewels of humanity's history. Best places on earth and all the like. Real democracy and freedom etc.
> 
> 
> I had a loooot of chances,but didn't travel.
> 
> 
> My religious madness? Because I'm simply talking about Western hypocrisy? How many times do I have to make it clear?
> Did you see me support Russia when they were best friends with Erdogan? No,you weren't saying anything then.
> Russia has a big role to play in the future and I'm not talking about Constantinople.
> 
> 
> You don't know how things turn out in the future.
> 
> 
> Which vile savages destroyed churches? Do you know about the vile savages Ukrainians sent in 2015 to "pacify" Donbass?
> 
> 
> Stop being an idiot. Putin FOUGHT these savages in Syria and you're here clapping for the ones who provided them with training,money and weapons. That's exactly what you're doing. You're nagging about Putin who fought radical Sunnis and islamist terrorists in Syria and you're supporting the ones who ARMED these people in the first place!



What future? Its dirt poor and has low birthrates. Their misery will only rise further. 

I know you dont travel. Thats the problem. You dont know the world and you dont understand it either.


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## Wood

Messerschmitt said:


> Comrades, how is the invasion special military operation going?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509911975622492161


So Ukrainian civilians and Russian soldiers should strike an deal. Russians can let their equipment be 'captured' by these civilians and in return expect half the proceeds of the sale in an overseas bank account. This way, a Russian soldier can make a lot of money without being accused of treason to mother Russia


----------



## Viet

Highnoon to have something against Putin’s nuclear blackmail
Germany considers a 2 billion euros purchase of Israel new advanced version of “Iron Dome” ballistic missile defense system. The defense umbrella would cover Germany. In addition it can cover Poland, Romania, Baltikum and maybe later Ukraine. This is part of 100 billion euros extra spendings on hardware military purchase.






__





Deutschlands Pläne zur Raketenabwehr


Deutschland will 100 Milliarden Euro zusätzlich in seine Rüstung stecken. Ein Teil könnte in die Raketenabwehr fließen. Befürworter schauen auf israelische Systeme; Kritiker sind skeptisch.




amp.dw.com

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509899286305255441


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## Apollon

Russian terrorists captured 






Btw taking them prisoner is kindness of Ukraine. Russia says its no war, so geneva convention doesnt work for them.

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> Maybe he is not so good at using keywords search so you may need to hold his (virtual) hands and lead him to those links.


lol, maybe he is doing a Biden.

Yes, it was Biden, then VP back in 2014, rejected the support of Ukrainian NATO membership. Quote saying "There are not too much we can do"....


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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> What future? Its dirt poor and has low birthrates. Their misery will only rise further.
> 
> I know you dont travel. Thats the problem. You dont know the world and you dont understand it either.


You're being an arrogant smartass and you draw conclusions very easily.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509925712635088899

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## jhungary

Australia to send armored vehicles to Ukraine after request


Prime Minister Scott Morrison says Australia will send armored Bushmaster vehicles to Ukraine after President Volodymyr Zelenskyy specifically asked for them while appealing to Australian lawmakers for more help in Ukraine’s war against Russia




abcnews.go.com





Looks like we are sending some Bushmaster 4x4 Carrier to Ukraine.....







Exact number and type is unknown, ADF have more than 1000 Bushmaster 4x4 in surplus, Bushmaster is very versatile vehicle, they can mount just about anything on top, from 25mm autocannon to AT Missile. It carry 10 troops in addition to the crew serve weapon. It's mine resistant and armoured up to 12.7 calibre.

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## coffee_cup

EU warns China not to support Russia.

China says will decide herself how to work for peace.

China says, hopes EU will have an "independent" opinion about China [policy].

Chinas says USA and NATO are responsible for Ukraine war.

"A simplistic approach to chose friend or foe is not clever and is a mentality of cold war and confrontation of blocks should be avoided".

(rough translation from German Tagesschau)


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509924292099772425

Further confirmation of Russian retreat from Kyiv region.

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## Vergennes

As the russian army flees the Kyiv region,horrific losses are being discovered


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509899870072713216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509911414344986633

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509919876462387206

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509927465841532940

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509928906513653765

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## gambit

LeGenD said:


> Agreed.
> 
> It also shows that helicopters can be used to infiltrate heavily defended spaces with good planning and NAP-of-the-earth technique. This is something that scores of members here struggle to digest.


Nap of the earth flying (NOE) is both science and art. Then add in a good dose of human courage.






What did the Ukrainian pilots know of the terrain from home to target?

What were the fuel and time calculations?

In flying nap of the earth (NOE), the advantage fixed wings have over helos is speed, but at the increased risk of detection because depending on terrain the jet will have to momentarily be outside of the radar 'shadow' zones created by the terrain. Because of the need for speed, which also translate to time, jets like my F-111 have to fly terrain following (TF) or *OVER* the topos, whereas with helos, their advantage is they are able to fly terrain avoidance (TA) meaning they can fly *AROUND* the topos, remaining inside the radar 'shadow' zones, but at the cost of increased time, fuel, and distance.

Terrain Following (TF) are designed to be real time responsive, meaning the jet is under real time control of the TF radar sub-system.

Terrain Avoidance (TA) should not be confused with Ground Collision Avoidance which is an emergency pitch up to avoid -- what else -- the ground. There is an oft confusion that if you fly over the topo, is that not qualify as an 'avoidance' ? Technically, it is. But in combat perspective, it is incorrect. In TA flight, you set a maximum flight altitude that you cannot breach, basically for fear of being outside that radar 'shadow' zone.

If the topo's physical feature, such as a hill top, is greater than your set max altitude, you must fly *AROUND* that topo, hence the word 'avoidance'. Because of this flying around the hill, mission time, distance, and fuel cost increases. The hilltop may reach 2,000 ft but the hill itself could be 5,000 ft all round the base. It is easier to fly over the hill than around it, but at the risk of being detected. Further, the aircrew cannot simply fly at 1,900 ft and around the hill because that altitude could still be inside the radar scan on the other side, even at the radar beam's edge of usable echoes, the aircrew cannot risk detection, so the best solution could be 1,000 - 1,200 ft altitude so when they are on the other side of the hill, they are still below the radar's scan.

So overall, NOE/TA flights takes advanced human skills and daring especially if knowledge of the course's topographic map is less than complete.

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## mazeto

jhungary said:


> Australia to send armored vehicles to Ukraine after request
> 
> 
> Prime Minister Scott Morrison says Australia will send armored Bushmaster vehicles to Ukraine after President Volodymyr Zelenskyy specifically asked for them while appealing to Australian lawmakers for more help in Ukraine’s war against Russia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abcnews.go.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like we are sending some Bushmaster 4x4 Carrier to Ukraine.....
> 
> View attachment 829417
> 
> 
> Exact number and type is unknown, ADF have more than 1000 Bushmaster 4x4 in surplus, Bushmaster is very versatile vehicle, they can mount just about anything on top, from 25mm autocannon to AT Missile. It carry 10 troops in addition to the crew serve weapon. It's mine resistant and armoured up to 12.7 calibre.


 NATO countries have their mutual defense treaty to back up each other, hence Russia is bearing their weapons delivery stoically.
What if Russia sends a conventional ICBM into Australia as a retaliation for the above? I suspect nobody is going to retaliate on behalf of Australia..

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509768910815604746

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## jhungary

mazeto said:


> NATO countries have their mutual defense treaty to back up each other, hence Russia is bearing their weapons delivery stoically.
> What if Russia sends a conventional ICBM into Australia as a retaliation for the above? I suspect nobody is going to retaliate on behalf of Australia..


You do know there are around 10,000 US troop in permanent rotation in Australia (5000 in Northern Territories, 3000 in Perth and 2000 in Alice Spring)

What do you think the US would do if Russia nuke and kill those 10,000 US troop?

Also, please do go ahead and look up what is ANZUS....

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509927465841532940
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509928906513653765



Russian lapdogs are hilarious,they will tell you it's part of the objective and anyway Kyiv and Chernihiv axis were only to divert Ukrainian forces from Donbass.... So kind of Russia to have sent its most elite divisions to the slaughterhouse just to divert some forces from Donbass.... and magically Russia's main goal to decapitate Kyiv nazi regime is suddenly forgotten.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509929481988984841

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## mazeto

jhungary said:


> You do know there are around 10,000 US troop in permanent rotation in Australia (5000 in Northern Territories, 3000 in Perth and 2000 in Alice Spring)
> 
> What do you think the US would do if Russia nuke and kill those 10,000 US troop?


 I said conventional ICBM. 
I am sure Russia will avoid the US troops. 
It will be to make a political point, deter the others and also advertise it's prowess. 
Australia is out of it's league here, and becoming more loyal than the emperor himself 😀


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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509768910815604746




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507062850547769348
This is how they do it. Using some obscure technicality

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## jhungary

mazeto said:


> I said conventional ICBM.
> I am sure Russia will avoid the US troops.
> It will be to make a political point, deter the others and also advertise it's prowess.
> Australia is out of it's league here, and becoming more loyal than the emperor himself 😀


Then you should go do look up what is ANZUS and AUKUS treaty.

Security between US and UK and Australia are guaranteed. This is not an agreement, or memorandum like the one Ukraine had back in 1994, that is a full blown treaty. 

I would like to see Russia try.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509932624999030785

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## Wood

End Ukraine violence, India ready to contribute to peace efforts, Modi to Lavrov


Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov’s interaction with PM Modi is significant as Modi has not met any of the Western leaders or senior officials who travelled to New Delhi in the past two weeks for consultations on the Ukraine crisis.




www.hindustantimes.com







> The Indian side has repeatedly called for respecting the UN Charter and the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all states. In his phone conversations with Russian and Ukrainian presidents in recent weeks, PM Modi has called for an end to the hostilities and a return to the path of dialogue and diplomacy.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509929475932360708

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## jhungary

mazeto said:


> I said conventional ICBM.
> I am sure Russia will avoid the US troops.
> It will be to make a political point, deter the others and also advertise it's prowess.
> Australia is out of it's league here, and becoming more loyal than the emperor himself 😀


Scratch that.

Screw US, if Russia want to see 75 F-35 flying into Russia from Ukraine and bombing the shit out of Russia, go ahead and launch ICBM into Australia.

I mean Russia have problem with Ukraine who own a few old Soviet Fighter jet, what do you think is going to happen with a combination of EA-18G Growler, F-35 and advance combat drone like MQ-9 and Loyal Wingman??

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## mazeto

jhungary said:


> Then you should go do look up what is ANZUS and AUKUS treaty.
> 
> Security between US and UK and Australia are guaranteed. This is not an agreement, or memorandum like the one Ukraine had back in 1994, that is a full blown treaty.
> 
> I would like to see Russia try.


 As I understood ANZUS and AUKUS doesn't have the automatic-trigger clauses like NATO. While they are defense treaties, they are amenable to more creative interpretation s..?


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509933956354949121

The Russian losses in the last few days are getting absurd

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## mazeto

jhungary said:


> Scratch that.
> 
> Screw US, if Russia want to see 75 F-35 flying into Russia from Ukraine and bombing the shit out of Russia, go ahead and launch ICBM into Australia.
> 
> I mean Russia have problem with a few old Soviet Plane, what do you think is going to happen with a combination of EA-18G Growler, F-35 and advance combat drone like MQ-9 and Loyal Wingman??


 What will happen? I suspect the airfield they flew from would turn to glass. 
The Russia will announce : for every nuke detonating in Russia, one nuke will detonate over *EACH* NATO member. Then sit back and watch furious backpedalling by individual countries


----------



## Apollon

Vergennes said:


> Russian lapdogs are hilarious,they will tell you it's part of the objective and anyway Kyiv and Chernihiv axis were only to divert Ukrainian forces from Donbass.... So kind of Russia to have sent its most elite divisions to the slaughterhouse just to divert some forces from Donbass.... and magically Russia's main goal to decapitate Kyiv nazi regime is suddenly forgotten.



All part of Putins plan!

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509934767176884247

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509935006206115845

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509794157044318208

The American volunteer in Ukraine


----------



## jhungary

mazeto said:


> As I understood ANZUS and AUKUS doesn't have the automatic-trigger clauses like NATO. While they are defense treaties, they are amenable to more creative interpretation s..?


Who tell you ANZUS does not have an automatic trigger?

Why do you think Australia is involved in both Iraq and Afghanistan?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509935827153035272

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## jhungary

mazeto said:


> What will happen? I suspect the airfield they flew from would turn to glass.
> The Russia will announce : for every nuke detonating in Russia, one nuke will detonate over *EACH* NATO member. Then sit back and watch furious backpedalling by individual countries


LOL, you are funny. So when are we expecting to see Russia nuke Ukraine? Ukraine already bombed ammo and oil depot inside Russia.

I mean, what do you really think if RAAF is sided with Ukraine? Russia will no longer have Air superiority in Ukraine, and open the door to a lot of possibility. None of which is better for the Russia as they were now. 

Seriously, if RuAF cannot handle a few Mig-29 and a few Su-27 with some outdated SAM, what do you think when Australia bring Patriot missile, F-35 and Growler onto the table?

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## SQ8

Russia has only its nukes to hide behind now - it’s pretty much done as a threat to NATO on ANY front and at most can move a little here or there. Putin and his yes men Cabal have snatched defeat from the jaws of _victory _that they achieved in a Russian _resurgence_


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509930735481896962

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509933976617635876

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509936177561976833


----------



## SQ8

jhungary said:


> LOL, you are funny. So when are we expecting to see Russia nuke Ukraine? Ukraine already bombed ammo and oil depot inside Russia.
> 
> I mean, what do you really think if RAAF is sided with Ukraine? Russia will no longer have Air superiority in Ukraine, and open the door to a lot of possibility. None of which is better for the Russia as they were now.
> 
> Seriously, if RuAF cannot handle a few Mig-29 and a few Su-27 with some outdated SAM, what do you think when Australia bring Patriot missile, F-35 and Growler onto the table?


The biggest disappointment was RuAF - the impression one got from Syria was they were rearmed and getting professionally competent but here it looks like they just had some fancy toys and 5 good pilots. They literally threw away their equipment superiority

Reactions: Like Like:
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## mazeto

jhungary said:


> LOL, you are funny. So when are we expecting to see Russia nuke Ukraine? Ukraine already bombed ammo and oil depot inside Russia.
> 
> I mean, what do you really think if RAAF is sided with Ukraine? Russia will no longer have Air superiority in Ukraine, and open the door to a lot of possibility. None of which is better for the Russia as they were now.
> 
> Seriously, if RuAF cannot handle a few Mig-29 and a few Su-27 with some outdated SAM, what do you think when Australia bring Patriot missile, F-35 and Growler onto the table?


That, exactly is the point. 
Because Russia cannot deal with the collective might of the NATO, it will be in an " existential crisis" .. which they have openly put as the trigger to go nuclear. 
Ukraine can throw a few Tochkas here and there, it's not existential


----------



## Apollon

@Vergennes remember 






Putins own speaker said Putin started this to get rid of Russia.

You must admit he is super effective.😅

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## mazeto

SQ8 said:


> Russia has only its nukes to hide behind now - it’s pretty much done as a threat to NATO on ANY front and at most can move a little here or there. Putin and his yes men Cabal have snatched defeat from the jaws of _victory _that they achieved in a Russian _resurgence_


 It's true the war exposed NATO hyping up Russia as a threat.. it is hardly a threat to anyone. Hence NATO should be dissolved, or atleast drawn down

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## Apollon

mazeto said:


> It's true the war exposed NATO hyping up Russia as a threat.. it is hardly a threat to anyone. Hence NATO should be dissolved, or atleast drawn down



For Russia that is extremly dangerous. Russias power was based on the perception of power. Thats gone now...


----------



## jhungary

mazeto said:


> That, exactly is the point.
> Because Russia cannot deal with the collective might of the NATO, it will be in an " existential crisis" .. which they have openly put as the trigger to go nuclear.
> Ukraine can throw a few Tochkas here and there, it's not existential


Dude, it was in your "Scenario" that Russia bomb Australia with ICBM first.

You already escalated, as I said, even without US involvement, and without Australian Air Force going into Russia, it will change the already difficult war into an unwinnable war for Russia. Even if RAAF do not go inside Russia, RAAF with NATO AWACS would basically enforce a no fly zone in Ukraine and every Russian troop concentration and armor will be targeted by RAAF and Ukrainian.

Again, we have F-35, Russian wouldn't know what hit them until they can literally see the bomb on top of their head.


----------



## khansaheeb

oberschlesier said:


> No Gas stop on 31 of March.
> As I have stated, speculation. Pretty predictable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kreml: Umstellung auf Rubel ist ein langwieriger Prozess
> 
> 
> Kreml-Sprecher: Die Umstellung auf die Zahlung in Rubel für russisches Gas würde nicht am 31. März in Kraft treten, sondern stelle ein langw...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.russland.jetzt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> " ein langwieriger Prozess " -> "it`s a long process" -> Another speculation and a way out of the declaration
> 
> Russian economy is relatively small and need Euro -> not a speculation


Europe is hoping before the Gas is halted the Ukraine issue would have resolved one way or another, that's why the Germans and co will drag their feet on stopping the gas imports from Russia,


----------



## Wood

Russia cannot claim victory in Ukraine without taking Kiev. At the same time, Ukraine can also not claim a victory without taking back the corridor in southern coast that connects Crimea to Donbas region.


----------



## mazeto

jhungary said:


> Dude, it was in your "Scenario" that Russia bomb Australia with ICBM first.
> 
> You already escalated, as I said, even without US involvement, and without Australian Air Force going into Russia, it will change the already difficult war into an unwinnable war for Russia. Even if RAAF do not go inside Russia, RAAF with NATO AWACS would basically enforce a no fly zone in Ukraine and every Russian troop concentration and armor will be targeted by RAAF and Ukrainian.
> 
> Again, we have F-35, Russian wouldn't know what hit them until they can literally see the bomb on top of their head.


 My " scenario " was based on your 
" scenario " of Australia arming a nation ( Ukr) in hot war with another ( Russia). A nation who is not in dispute with you( Aus) on anything. Nor Australia is compelled by any treaty to do so. 
Hence the first escalation lies with Australia, the subsequent scenario deriving from this we discussed above



Apollon said:


> For Russia that is extremly dangerous. Russias power was based on the perception of power. Thats gone now...


 A cornered rat also fights back. This rat got 6k ( or 10k) nukes. I suggest you give them a way out.


----------



## jhungary

SQ8 said:


> The biggest disappointment was RuAF - the impression one got from Syria was they were rearmed and getting professionally competent but here it looks like they just had some fancy toys and 5 good pilots. They literally threw away their equipment superiority


not sure about the Russian Air Force, but from a ground perspective. The reason behind the downfall of Russian Military might is corruption.

Saw a Pentagon auditor report on Russian ground vehicle. Most of their tire are cheap Chinese Brand. It's nothing wrong with Cheap Chinese Brand, if you maintain it frequently, but then they didn't. Which mean they are overpressure, and started to flake, all those tires got blown up suggest widespread corruption within the rank of Russian Military.

Why? If you want to "Cheap Skate" your equipment and take that cut, you wouldn't go cheap skate important stuff, like the weapon system or armour. But you would cheap skate item such as Engine Oil, Tires, Transmission and so on. The thing is, if you cut corner on weapon system and armour, that can be spotted miles away, tires and transmission is hard to spot, this is where these people will take a cut there and cut corner. I mean, $40,000 for 8 APC Tires and if you are using $20,000 Chinese brand, you pocket $20,000 just 1 APC, think about Russia have around 5000 or more of those, how much money we are talking about?

I don't really know enough on the Air Force to comment on it, but I would assume they will have similar problem with the ground force.



mazeto said:


> My " scenario " was based on your
> " scenario " of Australia arming a nation ( Ukr) in hot war with another ( Russia). A nation who is not in dispute with you( Aus) on anything. Nor Australia is compelled by any treaty to do so.
> Hence the first escalation lies with Australia, the subsequent scenario deriving from this we discussed above
> 
> 
> A cornered rat also fights back. This rat got 6k ( or 10k) nukes. I suggest you give them a way out.


Arming Ukrainian is *NOT* an escalation, Sweden wasn't in NATO either, so what compel the Swede to send NLAW and AT-4? when are Russia going to send some ICBM Swedish way?

Again, you are funny, sending ICBM to some country is NOT an escalation, while sending arms to another country in a hot war is?? I really want to know if you know anything about Logic??


----------



## jamal18

zartosht said:


> So your father was a terrorist?
> 
> 
> in other news:
> 
> Us ramps up imports of "banned" Russian oil . While lecturing Europe about the necessity of commiting economic suicide to stop Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.rt.com/business/553002-us-russia-oil-imports/
> 
> 
> 
> its gotten upto 150k barrels a day lately. They are going all out before the "ban" comes into effect april 21st....


Just saw a video of the Indian External affairs minister. Lunatic Liz Truss, UK's excuse for a foreign secretary, went to India to tell them to cut back on Russian oil. Indian minister informed her that European imports of oil from Russia increased 15% in march.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> not sure about the Russian Air Force, but from a ground perspective. The reason behind the downfall of Russian Military might is corruption.
> 
> Saw a Pentagon auditor report on Russian ground vehicle. Most of their tire are cheap Chinese Brand. It's nothing wrong with Cheap Chinese Brand, if you maintain it frequently, but then they didn't. Which mean they are overpressure, and started to flake, all those tires got blown up suggest widespread corruption within the rank of Russian Military.
> 
> Why? If you want to "Cheap Skate" your equipment and take that cut, you wouldn't go cheap skate important stuff, like the weapon system or armour. But you would cheap skate item such as Engine Oil, Tires, Transmission and so on. The thing is, if you cut corner on weapon system and armour, that can be spotted miles away, tires and transmission is hard to spot, this is where these people will take a cut there and cut corner. I mean, $40,000 for 8 APC Tires and if you are using $20,000 Chinese brand, you pocket $20,000 just 1 APC, think about Russia have around 5000 or more of those, how much money we are talking about?
> 
> I don't really know enough on the Air Force to comment on it, but I would assume they will have similar problem with the ground force.
> 
> 
> Arming Ukrainian is *NOT* an escalation, Sweden wasn't in NATO either, so what compel the Swede to send NLAW and AT-4? when are Russia going to send some ICBM Swedish way?
> 
> Again, you are funny, sending ICBM to some country is NOT an escalation, while sending arms to another country in a hot war is?? I really want to know if you know anything about Logic??



We had a convo among contractors how in the world does it happen.

It's the military procurement fraud which mirrors what we see all across ex-USSR states for govt suppliy tenders.


Bosses put up govt tender buying some rare spare parts, or components
Parts are taken off existing equipment, construction sites, and sold to itself through fake businesses
Instead 1 broken vehicle/project site, now you have two, while the government's ballance sheet grows
Rinse, and repeat
Find out you have a whole tank army worth of refurbisheshed vehicles without spare parts, or a 500km railroad with only 50km of functioning singalling pathways.


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> We had a convo among contractors how in the world does it happen.
> 
> It's the military procurement fraud which mirrors what we see all across ex-USSR states for govt suppliy tenders.
> 
> 
> Bosses put up govt tender buying some rare spare parts, or components
> Parts are taken off existing equipment, construction sites, and sold to itself through fake businesses
> Instead 1 broken vehicle/project site, now you have two, while the government's ballance sheet grows
> Rinse, and repeat
> Find out you have a whole tank army worth of refurbisheshed vehicles without spare parts, or a 500km railroad with only 50km of functioning singalling pathways.


lol the good ol' you need a crime to coverup another crime......

Well, it is more inline with our "Bradley IFV" debacle back in the 70s. This is the stuff I know too well, I was one of the dude who drive a Bradley IFV....









The Pentagon Wars - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509763227386884139


----------



## Primus

jhungary said:


> lol the good ol' you need a crime to coverup another crime......
> 
> Well, it is more inline with our "Bradley IFV" debacle back in the 70s. This is the stuff I know too well, I was one of the dude who drive a Bradley IFV....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Pentagon Wars - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


Good film


----------



## Apollon

mazeto said:


> My " scenario " was based on your
> " scenario " of Australia arming a nation ( Ukr) in hot war with another ( Russia). A nation who is not in dispute with you( Aus) on anything. Nor Australia is compelled by any treaty to do so.
> Hence the first escalation lies with Australia, the subsequent scenario deriving from this we discussed above
> 
> 
> A cornered rat also fights back. This rat got 6k ( or 10k) nukes. I suggest you give them a way out.



We give them a way out. As you see they are systematicly pushed out Ukraine,


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Columns of retreating russians are being ambushed and attacked left and right. Give them no rest
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509872825154392080



Those men look like the DNR militia, who are Pro Russian forces. They live and settle in Eastern Ukraine. The Ukrainians can't go nowhere near the main Russian army.


----------



## jhungary

Huffal said:


> Good film


Funny and Sad at the same time.

Funny because almost all of what happened in the film happened to the real Bradley test back in the 70s and 80s. And Sad because well, there aren't much of a change from the Bradley we used and the Bradley portrayed in the film

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509934000437137417


----------



## gambit

jhungary said:


> *not sure about the Russian Air Force, but from a ground perspective. The reason behind the downfall of Russian Military might is corruption.*
> 
> Saw a Pentagon auditor report on Russian ground vehicle. Most of their tire are cheap Chinese Brand. It's nothing wrong with Cheap Chinese Brand, if you maintain it frequently, but then they didn't. Which mean they are overpressure, and started to flake, all those tires got blown up suggest widespread corruption within the rank of Russian Military.
> 
> Why? If you want to "Cheap Skate" your equipment and take that cut, you wouldn't go cheap skate important stuff, like the weapon system or armour. But you would cheap skate item such as Engine Oil, Tires, Transmission and so on. The thing is, if you cut corner on weapon system and armour, that can be spotted miles away, tires and transmission is hard to spot, this is where these people will take a cut there and cut corner. I mean, $40,000 for 8 APC Tires and if you are using $20,000 Chinese brand, you pocket $20,000 just 1 APC, think about Russia have around 5000 or more of those, how much money we are talking about?
> 
> *I don't really know enough on the Air Force to comment on it, but I would assume they will have similar problem with the ground force.*


For US, we have these:

*Code One:* Airplane is clean, no issues, and signed off to be on the mission capable sortie readied list.​​*Code Two:* Airplane has issues but none serious enough jeopardize critical capabilities such as flight controls, radar, navigation, propulsion, and weapons.​​*Code Three:* Airplane is grounded due to serious problems that adversely affected critical systems.​
For examples, open the radome automatically make the jet Code Three because that is an adverse condition to the airframe, then the radome has to be closed and its security must be signed off by an authority figure. A single bullet hole anywhere is a Code Three item. A dirty seat is a Code Two item. Mechanical bindings on the rudder pedals is Code Three.

The VKS must have the same criteria and statuses for its jets.

There is no doubt that the Russian military is rife with corruption and inevitably, that *WILL* creep into Maintenance. There is no way any Russian pilot will fly with a loose control stick and why is it loose? Maybe the mechanics ran out of safety wire that is required to secure the stick? The pilot would immediately put the jet as whatever the VKS version of Code Three. No commander could order me to takeoff. I will take the court martial. Did poor maintenance contributed to the sorry performance of the VKS over Ukraine? Definitely.


----------



## mazeto

jhungary said:


> Arming Ukrainian is *NOT* an escalation, Sweden wasn't in NATO either, so what compel the Swede to send NLAW and AT-4? when are Russia going to send some ICBM Swedish way?
> 
> Again, you are funny, sending ICBM to some country is NOT an escalation, while sending arms to another country in a hot war is?? I really want to know if you know anything about Logic??


 Arming Ukrainian during war is indeed an escalation.. from the perspective of Russia.
Sending ICBM to the country arming your enemy is also a counter escalation, I never said it is not.
Sweden doesn't require ICBM, an SRBM would do? 😀. It won't get the response precisely because it's not in NATO.. Australia may get for the bang will be huge for the buck


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509942628200202252

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## SQ8

jhungary said:


> not sure about the Russian Air Force, but from a ground perspective. The reason behind the downfall of Russian Military might is corruption.
> 
> Saw a Pentagon auditor report on Russian ground vehicle. Most of their tire are cheap Chinese Brand. It's nothing wrong with Cheap Chinese Brand, if you maintain it frequently, but then they didn't. Which mean they are overpressure, and started to flake, all those tires got blown up suggest widespread corruption within the rank of Russian Military.
> 
> Why? If you want to "Cheap Skate" your equipment and take that cut, you wouldn't go cheap skate important stuff, like the weapon system or armour. But you would cheap skate item such as Engine Oil, Tires, Transmission and so on. The thing is, if you cut corner on weapon system and armour, that can be spotted miles away, tires and transmission is hard to spot, this is where these people will take a cut there and cut corner. I mean, $40,000 for 8 APC Tires and if you are using $20,000 Chinese brand, you pocket $20,000 just 1 APC, think about Russia have around 5000 or more of those, how much money we are talking about?
> 
> I don't really know enough on the Air Force to comment on it, but I would assume they will have similar problem with the ground force.
> 
> 
> Arming Ukrainian is *NOT* an escalation, Sweden wasn't in NATO either, so what compel the Swede to send NLAW and AT-4? when are Russia going to send some ICBM Swedish way?
> 
> Again, you are funny, sending ICBM to some country is NOT an escalation, while sending arms to another country in a hot war is?? I really want to know if you know anything about Logic??


I think training has a big impact as well - the tactics and usage of their equipment seemed completely all over the place and not reflective of good use of their firepower nor numbers.

Cheap equipment is just one aspect - well used cheap equipment can still prevail well. More importantly, not studying the combat theatre and providing confusing orders to troops is only adding to that mix of just a poorly planned effort

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## DF41

http://www.paulstramer.net/2022/03/perfectly-lawful-and-legal-and.html

Brief extract
Perfectly Lawful and Legal and Unfortunate
By Anna Von Reitz

People keep wondering what to think about the situation in Ukraine. Many are still believing what they hear on the news.

When the old Russian Federation broke up, and Russia released the Ukraine as an independent country it came with the proviso that if there was evidence of criminality, genocide, international threats to Russia on Ukrainian soil, etc. Russia could come back in and secure the situation. This is part of Russia's obligation to the rest of the world as well as a matter of Russian security. 

So, Ukraine was free to be its own country, with the understanding that they were going to be good little international citizens. And if they got out of hand, Russia would come back in and clean things up. 

Following Ukrainian independence in 1991, the Usual Suspects piled on. It was like a gold rush. Drug smuggling. Human trafficking. Arms sales. Counterfeiting. Organ harvesting. Oil privateering. Every sordid nasty dirty business in the world was imported to Ukraine, by all the Agencies, the "US Corp", the DOD, the Mobs of various nations, and associated corporations like Blackwater and Halliburton and on and on and on. All the Dirty Deal Guys showed up like gangbangers. 

And everyone including Russia just shook their heads. It was business as usual for the Ollie Norths of the world. 

Predictably, some Ukrainian oligarchs floated to the top of the cesspit and became politicians. 

The whole situation took an exponential leap downward during the Obama Administration, when Joe Biden and members of the US CONGRESS got involved in paying the oligarchs tons of helicopter money for their personal support on one hand, and taking billions out of the Ukrainian economy on the other. 

It was just a shameless wholesale sell out of Ukraine and the people of Ukraine. Their oil pillaged, their trade policies manipulated, their entire country opened up to every kind of vice, but the final straw was the DOD opening up over a dozen bioweapon laboratories in Ukraine. 

So, Russia invoked its treaty proviso and came in to clean the situation up and as Vladimir Putin said, "take the garbage out" --- not because they wanted to spend all that money and risk their lives and take all the abuse that the propaganda machine can throw --- but because otherwise, they'd have all those stockpiles of chemical and biological weapon on their back door step, along with all the other nastiness that was already going on. 

We have to note that Ukraine was a backup roosting place for the Vermin in the event that their plans for China didn't work out to their liking, but China woke up and decided not to eat the tapeworm, which took that port in a storm off the table and put the pressure back on Ukraine. 

What Russia is doing is perfectly lawful and legal and unfortunate. Nobody wanted it to come to this, but at the same time, the people of Ukraine had lost control and the crime syndicates and NATO idiots were endangering everyone in the region. Russia had the proviso and they exercised it, and nobody can say that all those chemical and bioweapon laboratories and all the rest of it, were not sufficient provocation. 

Oh. Except for the feckless News Media in this country and the spokespersons for the Biden Administration. (Think about that as a Career Killer -- spokesperson for the Biden Administration?) They like to endlessly repeat their little catch-phrase about "unprovoked attack by Russia" and shake their heads as if they just can't imagine why Russia would do such a thing? 

They know why Russia did it. They are the reason. They created the problem that Russia is stuck cleaning up. Joe and Hunter Biden were in there, as we all know, influence peddling, and threatening, and paying off payola left and right. So was Nancy Pelosi's son. So was Mitt Romney's son. Half a dozen members of Congress were directly up to their tidy whities in it, robbing the people of Ukraine, stealing "foreign aid", etc., etc., etc. 

Yet, here are the Arch-Hypocrites, attempting to blame Russia for cleaning up their mess? Rich, isn't it?


----------



## SQ8

mazeto said:


> It's true the war exposed NATO hyping up Russia as a threat.. it is hardly a threat to anyone. Hence NATO should be dissolved, or atleast drawn down


Not really, NATO will focus on other threats like a future conflict in the middle east or against China. NATO is no longer about “North Atlantic” and more about western civilization power vs the rest of the world

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509934000437137417


----------



## jhungary

mazeto said:


> Arming Ukrainian during war is indeed an escalation.. from the perspective of Russia.
> Sending ICBM to the country arming your enemy is also a counter escalation, I never said it is not.


lol, arming and training Ukrainian is not an escalation when there is *ALREADY* a war happening. So does Sanction or economic hostilities. Because what you are essentially referring to as who did what first. And in this case, Australia did not start this war. So whoever is starting this war is the one that first raise the tension and escalated. Without the war, would you think Australia will send those Bushmaster to begin with?? Saying sending weapon is an escalation from the Russian perspective is like the war itself have no implication on the Russian to begin with...

God, is it really that hard to understand?

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## FairAndUnbiased

People are "just sooo over it" with regards to Ukraine. No more Instagram likes so they're forgotten. Sad for Ukrainians.









Humanitarian aid for Ukraine is dwindling, says health official


The amount of humanitarian aid arriving in Ukraine is beginning to wane even as the Russian bombardment persists, Ukrainian Deputy Health Minister Oleksii Iaremenko said on Sunday. Speaking in a cargo warehouse near Warsaw's Chopin airport during a delivery of medical equipment facilitated by...




www.yahoo.com


----------



## Wood

jhungary said:


>


Great investigative work. Creepy music in the background. Very haunting

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509934000437137417


----------



## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Those men look like the DNR militia, who are Pro Russian forces. They live and settle in Eastern Ukraine. The Ukrainians can't go nowhere near the main Russian army.



Video was filmed on northern front. Only Russian army forces,no DNR or LNR.


----------



## Apollon

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Those men look like the DNR militia, who are Pro Russian forces. They live and settle in Eastern Ukraine. The Ukrainians can't go nowhere near the main Russian army.



From what i have seen the DNR is seen as worst traitors to Ukraine and gets shot on sight. They arrest russians, asks if any is from donetzk and make short work with those.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509844867043631106

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509944592594001925
Wali the Canadian sniper who was said to be killed multiple times by Russian sources (20 minutes after getting into battle in Mariupol lol) is well alive and even feeding himself with russian military MRE.

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Haha Haha:
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## mazeto

jhungary said:


> lol, arming and training Ukrainian is not an escalation when there is *ALREADY* a war happening. So does Sanction or economic hostilities. Because what you are essentially referring to as who did what first. And in this case, Australia did not start this war. So whoever is starting this war is the one that first raise the tension and escalated. Without the war, would you think Australia will send those Bushmaster to begin with?? Saying sending weapon is an escalation from the Russian perspective is like the war itself have no implication on the Russian to begin with...
> 
> God, is it really that hard to understand?


 You are fighting with your neighbor. 
A guy from another town comes and hands your opponent a knife to stab you with.
You can spend your time on the semantics whether it constitute an escalation, or give him a punch in the mouth if you can?

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## mmr

FairAndUnbiased said:


> People are "just sooo over it" with regards to Ukraine. No more Instagram likes so they're forgotten. Sad for Ukrainians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanitarian aid for Ukraine is dwindling, says health official
> 
> 
> The amount of humanitarian aid arriving in Ukraine is beginning to wane even as the Russian bombardment persists, Ukrainian Deputy Health Minister Oleksii Iaremenko said on Sunday. Speaking in a cargo warehouse near Warsaw's Chopin airport during a delivery of medical equipment facilitated by...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yahoo.com


You joking right. 

Ukraine ppl are given red carpets in entire Europe and Canada UK. They can work live and settle if they want. 

Canada has announced unlimited Ukrainian will be welcome here. 

The support they have received from west is unbelievable.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

(https://****/mod_russia_en/595)#Russia #Ukraine #Briefing 
@mod_russia_en

MoD Russia, [4/1/2022 7:44 AM]
[ Video ]
*🇷🇺🚁 Crews of Ka-52 helicopters carried out air strikes against Ukrainian nationalist military infrastructure. The flights took place at extremely low altitudes.

▫️During their tasks, the military pilots managed to save the helicopters, which had been damaged by the shelling. They managed to repair the helicopters at the forced landing site using their own resources, after which they continued to carry out combat missions.*

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Ka52
@mod_russia_en

MoD Russia, [4/1/2022 12:13 PM]
🇷🇺🇺🇦Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

▫️On April 1, at around 5am Moscow time, 2 Ukrainian Mi-24 helicopters entered Russian airspace at an extremely low altitude.

▫️Manoeuvring to advantage of terrain folds, Ukrainian helicopters launched a missile attack on a civilian oil storage facility on the outskirts of Belgorod.

▫️As a result of the hits, some of the tanks were damaged and ignited.

❗️I would like to stress that only civilian vehicles were supplied with fuel from this facility. The oil depot has no relation to the Russian Armed Forces.

▫️The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine.

*▫️Units of the Russian Armed Forces have completed the mopping-up of Urozhainoe from nationalists and are fighting with the Ukrainian 54th Separate Mechanized Brigade for the capture of Oktyabr state farm.*

_*▫️The advance during the day was 8 kilometers. A Ukrainian motorised infantry company, reinforced by a tank platoon, was destroyed.*_

*💥Onyx high-precision cruise missiles of Bastion coastal missile system have destroyed the headquarters of a grouping of Ukrainian troops near Shakhterskoe. Up to 40 personnel, 5 armoured vehicles and vehicles of various purposes were destroyed.

✈️💥During the day, operational-tactical and army aviation hit 40 military assets of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Among them: 2 anti-aircraft missile systems, including 1 Buk-M1 system near Murakhovo and 1 Osa launcher near Velikie Novoselki, as well as 32 areas of concentration of Ukrainian weapons and military equipment.

💥Russian air defence means have shot down 1 Ukrainian Mi-24 helicopter near Gulyai Pole and 4 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles near Novomikhailovka, Izyum and Kharkov.*

📊In total, 124 aircfaft and 82 helicopters, 357 unmanned aerial vehicles, 1,854 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 202 multiple launch rocket systems, 777 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,722 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing
@mod_russia_en


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509945078550339589

Russia has now exceeded 2,200 visual losses

Reactions: Like Like:
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## mmr

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509944592594001925
> Wali the Canadian sniper who was said to be killed multiple times by Russian sources (20 minutes after getting into battle in Mariupol lol) is well alive and even feeding himself with russian military MRE.


He will get free drinks for life once he come back to Canada

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jhungary

SQ8 said:


> I think training has a big impact as well - the tactics and usage of their equipment seemed completely all over the place and not reflective of good use of their firepower nor numbers.
> 
> Cheap equipment is just one aspect - well used cheap equipment can still prevail well. More importantly, not studying the combat theatre and providing confusing orders to troops is only adding to that mix of just a poorly planned effort


Well, I was referring to the inept of the Air Force and implying they have similar issue as with the ground force. 

As a whole, there are a lot of issue plaguing the Russian. There are no intelligence input into many aspect, from the counter-intelligence failure to the US/UK intel op that obtained the entire schedule of the invasion, to no battlefield intelligence on ground and air, they don't know where the Ukrainian are, even VIP, I never see a head of state of a warring nation goes on this many public call to everyone in the world, you would have expected the FSB/GRU have similar capability than our FBI and CIA. I read an article somewhere saying Zelenskyy have made somewhere about 43 social media appearance and 13 international call to address foreign government (US twice, Canada, Australia, NATO, EU, Belgium, Germany, France, UK, Israel and some other) I mean, he would have ate a cruise missile somewhere between his 5 and 6th call if we are at war with the Ukraine......

Training, as you said is an issue. Seems to me, this Russian force cannot perform complex task and complex manoeuvre, even basic combine arms tactics are lacking, no inter-layer cover, no Air-Ground warfighting capability is achieved.

As for planning, I have said it days ago that the entire C2 structure is lacking in Russian term, I mean, who is really in charge of the overall operation? The Russian attack in 4 fronts, and none of them (Beside the Crimea and Donbas) are intersupport with each other, no exploitation on the gain they made, and no correction to the lost they suffer.....It is as if they were just point to a point on a map and was told to take it........



mazeto said:


> You are fighting with your neighbor.
> A guy from another town comes and hands your opponent a knife to stab you with.
> You can spend your time on the semantics whether it constitute an escalation, or give him a punch in the mouth if you can?


Well, unless you made the knife yourself, you will have to get it somewhere. And you are already fighting, not verbally but physically, it way pass escalation the moment someone else handed your opponent a knife. 

As I said, if there are no war, there will not be a transfer of the knife in question.. And you can come punch that person in the mouth, but it would be a bad idea when you still have not finished the fight you were fighting with and start a new one.

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509942255985045510


----------



## jhungary

Wood said:


> Great investigative work. Creepy music in the background. Very haunting


331 regiment (the unit in this video) ceased to exist as a combat force. They have suffered 30-50% casualty as per latest report. 

And yeah, this is a very good investigation.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509942026938298368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509941934667800581

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509941414645358601


----------



## jhungary

gambit said:


> For US, we have these:
> 
> *Code One:* Airplane is clean, no issues, and signed off to be on the mission capable sortie readied list.​​*Code Two:* Airplane has issues but none serious enough jeopardize critical capabilities such as flight controls, radar, navigation, propulsion, and weapons.​​*Code Three:* Airplane is grounded due to serious problems that adversely affected critical systems.​
> For examples, open the radome automatically make the jet Code Three because that is an adverse condition to the airframe, then the radome has to be closed and its security must be signed off by an authority figure. A single bullet hole anywhere is a Code Three item. A dirty seat is a Code Two item. Mechanical bindings on the rudder pedals is Code Three.
> 
> The VKS must have the same criteria and statuses for its jets.
> 
> There is no doubt that the Russian military is rife with corruption and inevitably, that *WILL* creep into Maintenance. There is no way any Russian pilot will fly with a loose control stick and why is it loose? Maybe the mechanics ran out of safety wire that is required to secure the stick? The pilot would immediately put the jet as whatever the VKS version of Code Three. No commander could order me to takeoff. I will take the court martial. Did poor maintenance contributed to the sorry performance of the VKS over Ukraine? Definitely.


Similar system with the Army.

We probably have a bit more leeway for bullet hole, You can't have any on the window or windscreen tho, you are require to fix them if you took incoming round in one of the window. Some time you don't really care and drive it anyway. 

We probably don't really care about the status of the vehicle, as long as the engine run and the gun work.


----------



## Wood

jhungary said:


> 331 regiment (the unit in this video) ceased to exist as a combat force. They have suffered 30-50% casualty as per latest report.
> 
> And yeah, this is a very good investigation.


Are specially trained crack troops really able to make a big difference in these type of invasions?

I can understand their utility in hostage rescue and such special crisis jobs. Cool that they are able to jump out with parachutes. But in a open free for all warfare, are they worth the money spent on their training? Is an average infantry troop man not capable for this type of job?


----------



## Vergennes

Some say Russian forces are regrouping to re-attack Kyiv... with such attrition rates already suffered,that would be suicidal...



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509957098519605248


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509926196657762307

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509960722519896074


----------



## dBSPL

Video from Bucha after the withdrawal of Russian forces. This was a relatively wealthy suburb of Kiev about a month ago. The Russian army is causing absolute destruction wherever it passes.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509954475447959552


----------



## coffee_cup

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509934000437137417



Few weeks back one very high ranking official who was part of negotiating team was also killed on treason charges.

What is going on here?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509952342786981897


----------



## jhungary

Wood said:


> Are specially trained crack troops really able to make a big difference in these type of invasions?
> 
> I can understand their utility in hostage rescue and such special crisis jobs. Cool that they are able to jump out with parachutes. But in a open free for all warfare, are they worth the money spent on their training? Is an average infantry troop man not capable for this type of job?


Depending on your definition of "crack" troop. 

This unit would have been more like the 173 Airborne Brigade we had in the States. Well, they are better trained, but not at a SOF capable level. 

In war, you would want to use your better trained troop to move forward first, because that will give you better chance to win a battle, and winning a battle boost morale. 

On the other hand, if the intel report is correct, 331 is the one that took Hostomel and was bogged down with subsequent fighting in Hostomel and Irpin. That is where they suffered heavy casualty. Which for me it just did not make sense. You can use them to take Hostomel, but then you let the regular guy to occupy the area. The fact that they were used instead of regular troop suggested either There are not enough regular troop (Meaning they lost a lot more than anticipated) or they don't trust the regular troop. I honestly do not know which one is worse....

Reactions: Like Like:
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## FairAndUnbiased

mmr said:


> You joking right.
> 
> Ukraine ppl are given red carpets in entire Europe and Canada UK. They can work live and settle if they want.
> 
> Canada has announced unlimited Ukrainian will be welcome here.
> 
> The support they have received from west is unbelievable.


Oh ok then why is Ukrainian health minister contradicting you?

What are your thoughts on Ukrainians being able to get ez pz immigration as you claim, while you as a Bangladeshi have seen either first hand or through parents your struggles with proving your merit?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Some say Russian forces are regrouping to re-attack Kyiv... with such attrition rates already suffered,that would be suicidal...
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509957098519605248





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509890659393679364


----------



## coffee_cup

FairAndUnbiased said:


> People are "just sooo over it" with regards to Ukraine. No more Instagram likes so they're forgotten. Sad for Ukrainians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Humanitarian aid for Ukraine is dwindling, says health official
> 
> 
> The amount of humanitarian aid arriving in Ukraine is beginning to wane even as the Russian bombardment persists, Ukrainian Deputy Health Minister Oleksii Iaremenko said on Sunday. Speaking in a cargo warehouse near Warsaw's Chopin airport during a delivery of medical equipment facilitated by...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yahoo.com



Agreed. It is so sad.

It is gonna take a MASSIVE effort to rebuild this country. Both the infrastructure and people's psychology is destroyed. Wars are f* bad!

Hope, those who initiate these wars sitting in their 7-star luxury villas will one day held accountable and will be made to feel the pain!


----------



## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509890659393679364



Yes Russians even left entire columns destroyed and countless bodies

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Wood

jhungary said:


> Depending on your definition of "crack" troop.
> 
> This unit would have been more like the 173 Airborne Brigade we had in the States. Well, they are better trained*, but not at a SOF capable level.*
> 
> In war, you would want to use your better trained troop to move forward first, because that will give you better chance to win a battle, and winning a battle boost morale.
> 
> On the other hand, if the intel report is correct, 331 is the one that took Hostomel and was bogged down with subsequent fighting in Hostomel and Irpin. That is where they suffered heavy casualty. Which for me it just did not make sense. You can use them to take Hostomel, but then you let the regular guy to occupy the area. The fact that they were used instead of regular troop suggested either There are not enough regular troop (Meaning they lost a lot more than anticipated) or they don't trust the regular troop. I honestly do not know which one is worse....


I thought that these people were SOF. The video also said that they were elite.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509897952017502211


Vergennes said:


> Yes Russians even left entire columns destroyed and countless bodies





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509896448321728520


----------



## coffee_cup

Live (Tagesschau):

Ukraine's Security & Defence Council Secretary denies that Ukraine has attacked Russia's Belgorod.

Earlier there were reports that Ukraine has attacked oil depot in Belgorod.


----------



## jhungary

Wood said:


> I thought that these people were SOF. The video also said that they were elite.


Many people consider the US Marine Corp elite.......you can't possibly put the entire Marine Corp into SOF....

They are better trained and better equip than regular troop.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

Russians retreat and don't even bother recovering their dead.



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509959135663738881

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Sad Sad:
1


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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509931655229808674

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509933731485831170


----------



## Viet

mmr said:


> You joking right.
> 
> Ukraine ppl are given red carpets in entire Europe and Canada UK. They can work live and settle if they want.
> 
> Canada has announced unlimited Ukrainian will be welcome here.
> 
> The support they have received from west is unbelievable.


True
Ukraine refugees are treated as first class refugees especially here in Germany.
They can stay without visa for 3 months.
Free housing, free healthcare, free foods, free education, free vocational trainings, free everything. If the war not stopping millions of Ukrainians will live here.
I am ok with that. Germany needs more likeminded people.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509901336653049859


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509964957546393606

Reactions: Sad Sad:
1


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## gambit

jhungary said:


> *We probably have a bit more leeway for bullet hole,* You can't have any on the window or windscreen tho, you are require to fix them if you took incoming round in one of the window. Some time you don't really care and drive it anyway.
> 
> We probably don't really care about the status of the vehicle, as long as the engine run and the gun work.


When am going at near Mach and/or making 9g turns, aerodynamic pressure under the skin and into jet's empty volume space will rip the jet apart. On the other hand, the A-10 can get away with it because it was built to take that kind of punishment.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509851337256755206


----------



## sur

jhungary said:


>


@1:52+ they show a recruiting film. That reminds me of a couple of recruitment related clips from US:

















Then I remember seeing army recruitment event in Pakistan, they just post ad in news paper, there were some ~1000+ applicants standing in line outside the office as I drove by.


----------



## Gripen9

Supposedly, Ukrainian Mi-24s went across the border and interdicted an ammo dump. Anyone have confirmations on that?

Ballsy if true.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Russians retreat and don't even bother recovering their dead.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509959135663738881




*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509873387560124420*

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

Vergennes said:


> Some say Russian forces are regrouping to re-attack Kyiv... with such attrition rates already suffered,that would be suicidal...
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509957098519605248



Wtf first dudes eye plopped out?


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509966433316392961...


----------



## Apollon

Vergennes said:


> Yes Russians even left entire columns destroyed and countless bodies



The russians souls left their bodies.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509829191793098778


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509906198363058191

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509972438716751876
Sounds tragic for the people of Donbass


----------



## Viet

Just few weeks ago unthinkable, German government green lights buying Israeli armed drones.
More to come.
Next most likely from the US
As reason: Russia invasion of Ukraine 
What else.





__





Raketen für Einsatz und Training: Entwurf: Regierung will Bundeswehrdrohne bewaffnen - n-tv.de


Wegen des Angriffs auf die Ukraine einigt sich die Ampel, von der bisherigen Praxis abzuweichen und die Bundeswehrdrohnen zu bewaffnen. Dazu will das Verteidigungsministerium 140 Raketen anschaffen, die von den Heron-Drohnen abgeschossen werden können. Am Mittwoch soll die Entscheidung fallen.



amp.n-tv.de


----------



## jhungary

sur said:


> @1:52+ they show a recruiting film. That reminds me of a couple of recruitment related clips from US:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I remember seeing army recruitment event in Pakistan, they just post ad in news paper, there were some ~1000+ applicants standing in line outside the office as I drove by.


I don't think you can compare US or Russia Military recruitment with Pakistan, US and Russia don't really have a existential crisis like Pakistan where every minute of everyday being threatened by the neighbor, your case is very much like what's going on in Ukraine right now, you don't need to "sell" your recruitment.

Not sure about Russia, in the US, it's like a job, so basically you are competing with other big company for people to join, we can't say "Oh Canada or Mexico are going to invade us tomorrow" So just like any big company hiring, the military need to work some trick.


----------



## coffee_cup

Gripen9 said:


> Supposedly, Ukrainian Mi-24s went across the border and interdicted an ammo dump. Anyone have confirmations on that?
> 
> Ballsy if true.



Ukraine denied it (few hours ago)

There was some other reason for the explosion.

@Apollon : Sorry to disappoint you, not much balls of steel here. 

May be next time.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509973652560879616 Chinese think tanks think like you do @gambit

Original publication: https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/FyC1hfGRP3GOG5u_F0TcvA


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509971238470533123


----------



## Apollon

coffee_cup said:


> Ukraine denied it (few hours ago)
> 
> There was some other reason for the explosion.
> 
> @Apollon : Sorry to disappoint you, not much balls of steel here.
> 
> May be next time.
> 
> View attachment 829456



There were helicopters shooting at it. Either the russians now destroy themself or Ukraine wants to keep it low profile. Or another actor stepped up to do the attack


----------



## coffee_cup

Apollon said:


> There were helicopters shooting at it. Either the russians now destroy themself or Ukraine wants to keep it low profile. Or another actor stepped up to do the attack



Why would "balls of steel" want to keep it low profile? If showing them was the whole point?

I am confused.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509804688400687104










In a complete absence of Russian air defense???
Ukrainian Mi-24 helicopters just crossed the border to Russia and hit a fuel/oil depot in Belgorod!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509804789722497033

The Russian Emergency Service: The Ukrainian bombing led to a fire in 8 fuel tanks,
It is likely to spread to 8 other tanks.


----------



## coffee_cup

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509804688400687104
> View attachment 829459



Ukraine denied the attack few hours back.

Could it be a false flag?


----------



## dBSPL

Accuracy of Ukrainian artillery

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509962967357526017
As I understand it, the Ukrainian artillery units not only have laser-guided artillery shells(which is expensive) integrated with UAVs, but also have a course correction system.

Course Correction System is a low cost solution that enhances the effectiveness of existing ammunitions and decreases the dispersion in the rounds and improves the effectiveness of the artillery fire by applying correction to the ammunitions’ ballistic trajectory.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Apollon

coffee_cup said:


> Why would "balls of steel" want to keep it low profile? If showing them was the whole point?
> 
> I am confused.



Breaking the russian censorship wall. Belgorod now had two attacks in 3 days. Population gets scared, Putin appears weak.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509977096097087488


----------



## coffee_cup

Apollon said:


> Breaking the russian censorship wall. Belgorod now had two attacks in 3 days. Population gets scared, Putin appears weak.



Come again?


----------



## Xerxes22

Mariupol has fallen. Next major attack Kharkov. All the nato eu propagandists will be out of words soon. Russia is kicking ***. Great diversionary and maneuvering tactics by RF. The UA cant maneuver no more and the eastern front is there for the taking. Kharkov next. Denazification.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## Ali_Baba

Messerschmitt said:


> Comrades, how is the invasion special military operation going?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509911975622492161



There are gonna be some rich farmers out there in Ukraine! Farmers always seem to win ..


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509973740758736901


----------



## Apollon

coffee_cup said:


> Come again?



Maybe the poles did it. Maybe the Germans, maybe Ukraine. Who cares? Evrything that matters is shit in Russia gets demolished.

I blew up my teachers mail box when i was in 8th grade. Was damn proud for it but nobody knows i did it.  could be same here.


----------



## jhungary

Gripen9 said:


> Supposedly, Ukrainian Mi-24s went across the border and interdicted an ammo dump. Anyone have confirmations on that?
> 
> Ballsy if true.


Don't know, as far as anyone can tell, that's a Mi-24 but whether or not it's Ukrainian? Nobody can tell, and Ukrainian were not admitting it was them.

It's goes one of two way.

1.) It's Ukrainian - That mean somehow they can penetrate the Russian ADIF network basically make RuAF and Russia Military a laughing stock, but it also mean it is an attack in Russian mainland. Which is a clause for Russia to escalate the entire conflict.

2,) It's Russian - Either it's a false flag or some disgruntle Russian have access to Mi-24 and decided to bomb the shit out of the fuel depot. Or It is a false flag op the Russian did it to themselves and blame the Ukrainian so they can escalate the entire conflict.

A few issue did not sat right with me. We only see 1 gunship, you usually send a pair or 2 pairs if this is an airstrike, you want to exploit the situation, I mean, if you sneak one in, you can sneak 2 or 4 in, and maximize your damage. So sending just 1 would be a giant waste of opportunities, how often can you caught Russian off guard?

Another issue is Ukrainian have Cruise missile, they can strike that oil depot with Cruise missile, they don't really need to use gunship.

On the other hand, if this is a false flag, it didn't make any sense to go after actual military target. It would work just as well for a gunship to strafe a city or something like that.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509974620136427522


----------



## bobo6661

dBSPL said:


> Accuracy of Ukrainian artillery
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509962967357526017
> As I understand it, the Ukrainian artillery units not only have laser-guided artillery shells(which is expensive) integrated with UAVs, but also have a course correction system.
> 
> Course Correction System is a low cost solution that enhances the effectiveness of existing ammunitions and decreases the dispersion in the rounds and improves the effectiveness of the artillery fire by applying correction to the ammunitions’ ballistic trajectory.


It amazes me watching those that russian propaganda says ukrainins using buildings and civilians as shield and then you see russian tanks hidding the same way

Reactions: Like Like:
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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509715239427883010


----------



## Vergennes

Inside hostomel airport... first picture of AN225 destroyed with a Russian VDV BMD destroyed.... the AN224 is damaged but seems can be saved. Everywhere russians go they only bring death and destruction...

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Sad Sad:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509972600235216903

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509976939922079744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509980080390475780


----------



## Primus

This war proves conscription doesnt work properly. Your soldiers will not be motivated to fight, especially when going up against a nations army that is hyped up on nationalism and pride, defending their country. 

We shall see whether the Ukrainians can survive the second operation thats gonna be launched by Russia.



Vergennes said:


> Inside hostomel airport... first picture of AN225 destroyed with a Russian VDV BMD destroyed.... the AN224 is damaged but seems can be saved. Everywhere russians go they only bring death and destruction...
> 
> View attachment 829461
> 
> View attachment 829460


Rip mriya. Destroyed by the Ukrainians to prevent capture.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## khansaheeb

Wood said:


> Russia cannot claim victory in Ukraine without taking Kiev. At the same time, Ukraine can also not claim a victory without taking back the corridor in southern coast that connects Crimea to Donbas region.


Taking Kiev was not an objective, it was just a diversion to split Ukrainian forces.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## coffee_cup

Apollon said:


> I blew up my teachers mail box when i was in 8th grade. Was damn proud for it but nobody knows i did it.



Dude are you a terrorist?

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## Viet

Xerxes22 said:


> Mariupol has fallen. Next major attack Kharkov. All the nato eu propagandists will be out of words soon. Russia is kicking ***. Great diversionary and maneuvering tactics by RF. The UA cant maneuver no more and the eastern front is there for the taking. Kharkov next. Denazification.


Looks like a fake news
Mariupol not fallen
The Asov regiment keep fighting until the bitter end against an overwhelming enemy.





__





Azov Regiment: Enemy loses tanks, company of soldiers daily in Mariupol






www.ukrinform.net


----------



## dBSPL

khansaheeb said:


> Taking Kiev was not an objective, it was just a diversion to split Ukrainian forces.


Military intervention in Kiev and the overthrow of the government was certainly the first target. This was also the purpose of the troops crossing the border from Belarus in the north. You can read the article that Putin wrote for victory in the early days of the war, but which was later accidentally posted on the Internet. There should be a lot of documentation on this subject in the first part of this thread. However, when the first week of the operation did not go as expected, the aim of Novorossiya, which was plan B, was started.

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## Apollon

khansaheeb said:


> Taking Kiev was not an objective, it was just a diversion to split Ukrainian forces.



Yes all planned by vlad. He planned to lose 14.000 troops there and large amounts of equipment. What a genius!


----------



## Vergennes

dBSPL said:


> Military intervention in Kiev and the overthrow of the government was certainly the first target. This was also the purpose of the troops crossing the border from Belarus in the north. You can read the article that Putin wrote for victory in the early days of the war, but which was later accidentally posted on the Internet. There should be a lot of documentation on this subject in the first part of this thread. However, when the first week of the operation did not go as expected, the aim of Novorossiya, which was plan B, was started.



As I wrote earlier today ;

Russian lapdogs are hilarious,they will tell you it's part of the objective and anyway Kyiv and Chernihiv axis were only to divert Ukrainian forces from Donbass.... So kind of Russia to have sent its most elite divisions to the slaughterhouse just to divert some forces from Donbass.... and magically Russia's main goal to decapitate Kyiv nazi regime is suddenly forgotten. 

Russia's objective from the start of the war was to take Kyiv and decapitate Zelensky government,the reason they rapidly pushed to Kyiv...

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509979072365056008
Very interesting. Because Russia has not declared war, a large number of trained troops simply quit their jobs when called into duty. They are not held for treason, because technically Russia is not at war

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## Apollon

coffee_cup said:


> Dude are you a terrorist?



What? Is putting i firework cracker in a mailbox by a schoolkid terrorism now?


----------



## Wood

khansaheeb said:


> Taking Kiev was not an objective, it was just a diversion to split Ukrainian forces.


Zelensky was supposed to be a Nazi. He is hiding in Kyiv. How to de-nazify Ukraine without taking Kiev?

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509979159539245056

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## coffee_cup

Apollon said:


> What? Is putting i firework cracker in a mailbox by a schoolkid terrorism now?



Using explosives to blow up properties or people intentionally is terrorism.

Any doubts? Ask the local police.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509915840573018116

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509991552537427971

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## Wood

Russian public reaction to pull back from Kiev. Seems to me like they accept reality far better than the Z zealots of PDF 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509975333164003331

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509975832021901312
The May 9th Victory Parade cited by one fellow here is very interesting. Putin may try to push for 'round 2' win by that time.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509971837186363399

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## Apollon

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509971837186363399



Why have most of the bodies no eyes left? Crows took them?

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## FairAndUnbiased

Viet said:


> True
> Ukraine refugees are treated as first class refugees especially here in Germany.
> They can stay without visa for 3 months.
> Free housing, free healthcare, free foods, free education, free vocational trainings, free everything. If the war not stopping millions of Ukrainians will live here.
> I am ok with that. Germany needs more likeminded people.


So you are OK being treated for years like a slave, seeing people that look like yourself pick vegetables in fields and work long hours in the fields, while Ukrainians are just given everything you or your parents struggle for.

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## khansaheeb

Russia has mo


dBSPL said:


> Military intervention in Kiev and the overthrow of the government was certainly the first target. This was also the purpose of the troops crossing the border from Belarus in the north. You can read the article that Putin wrote for victory in the early days of the war, but which was later accidentally posted on the Internet. There should be a lot of documentation on this subject in the first part of this thread. However, when the first week of the operation did not go as expected, the aim of Novorossiya, which was plan B, was started.


Russia can bomb Kiev into rubble if they wish to. Russia has emotional attachment to Ukraine and initially had a softly approach. Taking Kiev will be expensive and serves no strategic purpose other than to raise a flag. Russia's primary goal is to downsize the Ukrainian armed forces and protect the people of the Dombas and Donetsk region.


Wood said:


> Zelensky was supposed to be a Nazi. He is hiding in Kyiv. How to de-nazify Ukraine without taking Kiev?


 Russia is only interested in eliminating the Nazis attacking their people near the border.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509987369797234695


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506697592549396483

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Wood

khansaheeb said:


> Russia is only interested in eliminating the Nazis attacking their people near the border.


I don't recall Putin saying that Nazis are allowed to exist in Kiev. Where did you hear him say so?


----------



## khansaheeb

Wood said:


> I don't recall Putin saying that Nazis are allowed to exist in Kiev. Where did you hear him say so?


Going by his actions not by his talk. Putin said he wasn't going to invade and still did.


----------



## nufix

Apollon said:


> Why have most of the bodies no eyes left? Crows took them?



Look closer, the eyes are still there but due to frostbite, the entire face got swollen and as the eyes lost humidity and other liquids, the eyes shrunk. I guess the they died somewhere between 24-48 hours before the video was made because the skin hasn’t started to blacken yet.


----------



## NotSure

Gonzalo Lira with Scott Ritter about the russian military operation in Ukraine:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509142811781832707


----------



## Wood

khansaheeb said:


> Going by his actions not by his talk. Putin said he wasn't going to invade and still did.


Strange how you are able to read Putin's actions so will when his own domestic supporters are not able to.  









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Taking Kiev was not an objective, it was just a diversion to split Ukrainian forces. Zelensky was supposed to be a Nazi. He is hiding in Kyiv. How to de-nazify Ukraine without taking Kiev? :unsure:



defence.pk

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__





Loading…






twitter.com


----------



## letsrock

thetutle said:


> the reason why most were shot in the Berlin area was because that was the only place you could really cross. If you lived in any other city you could not go anywhere close to the West German border. You needed your papers with you at all times and if you were new to an area you would get ID'd at every corner asking you what business you had there. You would be interrogated and shot in a dark room way before you got to the border area.
> 
> People that got visas to visit West Germany were closely vetted and usually powerful people in the communist apparatus or old grandmas who would return knowing they had family and grandkids in the East.



Id'd at very cornet - yea right and also very clever play of words "most were shot" without telling the actual number which is in few dozens. So how did those millions migrate then ? why were hundreds of thousands migrating legally with permit ? And this in addition to millions who in 80s just visited west germany. You are way hyping up this and propagandizing here.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510005578831179792


----------



## khansaheeb

Wood said:


> Strange how you are able to read Putin's actions so will when his own domestic supporters are not able to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> Taking Kiev was not an objective, it was just a diversion to split Ukrainian forces. Zelensky was supposed to be a Nazi. He is hiding in Kyiv. How to de-nazify Ukraine without taking Kiev? :unsure:
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk





Wood said:


> Strange how you are able to read Putin's actions so will when his own domestic supporters are not able to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> Taking Kiev was not an objective, it was just a diversion to split Ukrainian forces. Zelensky was supposed to be a Nazi. He is hiding in Kyiv. How to de-nazify Ukraine without taking Kiev? :unsure:
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


I can read your mind too, so watch out.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509983179188453383

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509983600904708104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509985503579451397

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510012177402445829

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510012182473461765

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## Wood

Ethnic Russians in Kharkiv have some words for Putin. These people cannot speak Ukranian, so you have to understand Russian to make sense of what they are saying. Or, you can just read the subtitles

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510016902755672069


Vergennes said:


> As I wrote earlier today ;
> 
> Russian lapdogs are hilarious,they will tell you it's part of the objective and anyway Kyiv and Chernihiv axis were only to divert Ukrainian forces from Donbass.... So kind of Russia to have sent its most elite divisions to the slaughterhouse just to divert some forces from Donbass.... and magically Russia's main goal to decapitate Kyiv nazi regime is suddenly forgotten.
> 
> Russia's objective from the start of the war was to take Kyiv and decapitate Zelensky government,the reason they rapidly pushed to Kyiv...





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510015911528435723


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509913173612285952

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## Wood

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509913173612285952




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509913176250490884


----------



## mmr

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Oh ok then why is Ukrainian health minister contradicting you?
> 
> What are your thoughts on Ukrainians being able to get ez pz immigration as you claim, while you as a Bangladeshi have seen either first hand or through parents your struggles with proving your merit?


I am not sure why he contradicting. I can see ppl doing what ever they can to help.

In canada they have accepted thousands of Syrians and other refugees in the past. And i can see Ukrainian refugees are mostly women and kids. While in 2015 it was mostly man who were coming to Europe. Most of them are young too. So i am not sure why those man were running away while women and kids were struck in bombing.

How do i feel? I fully support Ukrainian women and kids getting help.

I am disappointed why so called rich gulf countries didnt do shit to take any refugees during 2015.


----------



## jamal18

Hearing of desperate attempts to get 'certain people' out of besieged Mariupol. End game for the Ukrainian army there, at least two failed helicopter attempts.

Rumours of Nato 'advisors' with the trapped Ukrainians.

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## dBSPL

At these hours which we have the first sahur of Ramadan, my prayer to Allah(cc) is that a permanent ceasefire can be achieved during the month of Ramadan. May Allah(cc) protect all the oppressed.

I hope one day I can visit Cuma Han Camii again.

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## The SC

coffee_cup said:


> Ukraine denied the attack few hours back.
> 
> Could it be a false flag?


Biggest OPEC CUT.
Larger SPR release .
Jeddah attacks.
Russia attacks.
Ukrainian war.
Historical oil price scenario soon.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510015312648888325

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510046206684192774

Brand new weapons package

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## LeGenD

Repository thread updated and expanded:






Repository of journalistic sources and how to use them with Russia - Ukraine War in focus and Fact-checking considerations


Dear members, Some members complain about the issue of reporting bias (and propaganda) in journalistic contents. These complaints were noticed in the following thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/ This thread is created to address the...



defence.pk





Following sections added:

Russian Conspiracy in Donbas?
VICTORIA NULAND IN UKRAINE?

Russian aggression in Ukraine notwithstanding, American role in Ukrainian politics is also highlighted for general knowledge.

Remember: Repository thread is for consultations only.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510078058707005449

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510078064008511496

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509992795137789955

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510094022970417160

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## ahtan_china

1950s/Korea War 
China（almost land force) VS USA/UN (air/land/navy Force)

2020s/Russia-Ukraine-war
Russia (air/land/navy Force) VS USA/NATO（almost land force)
I'm not sure the US can achieve China's achievements in 1950S

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## Inception-06

Dumb Russians!


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510090991818231809

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## sammuel

khansaheeb said:


> Taking Kiev was not an objective, it was just a diversion to split Ukrainian forces.



Come on , a 64 mile column ? No one deploys so much forces as a diversion.

Putin thought that the Ukrainians would see those forces around the capital and fold. He expected Zaleski to run away the minute he saw this massive forces . But that did not happen.

Russian retreated only after they suffered heavy casualties.

Some diversion .Russian tanks destroyed near Kiev:







~



Huffal said:


> This war proves conscription doesnt work properly. Your soldiers will not be motivated to fight, especially when going up against a nations army that is hyped up on nationalism and pride, defending their country.



Indeed , why would a Russian soldier die for Putin in a war where he does not understand what he is fighting for.

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## Apollon

nufix said:


> Look closer, the eyes are still there but due to frostbite, the entire face got swollen and as the eyes lost humidity and other liquids, the eyes shrunk. I guess the they died somewhere between 24-48 hours before the video was made because the skin hasn’t started to blacken yet.



Thanks for explanation. That makes sense. But on another post here was a russian guy where one eye really was kinda pulled out. There was no headshot or explosion damage visible. So i guess in that one case it really was crows. Anyways sunce russia leaves their own soldiers there it shows what they think about them.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510117089306152966

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510117186731487236

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510117337411854338

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510117623673016322

Russian forces have been defeated on the Kyiv/Chernihiv and Sumy fronts

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## Oldman1

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510117089306152966
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510117186731487236
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510117337411854338
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510117623673016322
> 
> Russian forces have been defeated on the Kyiv/Chernihiv and Sumy fronts


You are going to have Russian forces that withdrew earlier and then you have Russian forces being told to stay but die well and buy time for them as well as for the forces in southeast of Ukraine. In the Russian soldiers minds that told to stay and dig in, they will run away in panic and getting ambushed and surrounded along the way. The Ukrainians don't want them to leave to go somewhere else.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510015312648888325


See in the video on the left side where the missile goes parabolic.


----------



## Oldman1

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510078058707005449
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510078064008511496


A thousand T-72s is a lot. Very much enough for possible counterattack and counteroffensive, even retake Crimea and Donbas region which is in the interest of Ukraine and Europe as well as as for the U.S. I know the Marine Corps gave up their tanks for a shift in doctrine of possible war in the Pacific and didn't want the tanks anymore. Should give it to the Poland since Poland already bought 250 Abrams tanks and should get more to boost the NATO strength. Even with the classified armor. Its better in the long term of a strong NATO country like Poland. U.S. wouldn't have to worry about keeping a 100k military personnel every time there is a conflict in or near Europe. Should trade for like 3 T-72s for every 1 Abrams. So Poland getting almost 600 Abrams tanks total while Ukraine gets a thousand T-72s.

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## Apollon

Oldman1 said:


> You are going to have Russian forces that withdrew earlier and then you have Russian forces being told to stay but die well and buy time for them as well as for the forces in southeast of Ukraine. In the Russian soldiers minds that told to stay and dig in, they will run away in panic and getting ambushed and surrounded along the way. The Ukrainians don't want them to leave to go somewhere else.
> 
> 
> See in the video on the left side where the missile goes parabolic.



Is it that rocket type that goes up to hit tank from above?


----------



## Oldman1

Apollon said:


> Is it that rocket type that goes up to hit tank from above?


Yes.



Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509979072365056008
> Very interesting. Because Russia has not declared war, a large number of trained troops simply quit their jobs when called into duty. They are not held for treason, because technically Russia is not at war


I can see why with Russia moving 2,000 troops in occupied Georgia unless they can't meet the needs for a possible operation with finding any forces in its own country.



Vergennes said:


> Inside hostomel airport... first picture of AN225 destroyed with a Russian VDV BMD destroyed.... the AN224 is damaged but seems can be saved. Everywhere russians go they only bring death and destruction...
> 
> View attachment 829461
> 
> View attachment 829460


Ukraine can build another one or a better one.

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## Oldman1

Vergennes said:


> Russians retreat and don't even bother recovering their dead.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509959135663738881


Even in places where they have occupied for weeks or a month. I can see why they kept the casualty numbers low and didn't report it to the top.



Vergennes said:


> Some say Russian forces are regrouping to re-attack Kyiv... with such attrition rates already suffered,that would be suicidal...
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509957098519605248


Regroup to where to attack Kiev? They already lost their supply bases and are getting surrounded. They have no choice but to retreat if they can.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Dude, it was in your "Scenario" that Russia bomb Australia with ICBM first.
> 
> You already escalated, as I said, even without US involvement, and without Australian Air Force going into Russia, it will change the already difficult war into an unwinnable war for Russia. Even if RAAF do not go inside Russia, RAAF with NATO AWACS would basically enforce a no fly zone in Ukraine and every Russian troop concentration and armor will be targeted by RAAF and Ukrainian.
> 
> Again, we have F-35, Russian wouldn't know what hit them until they can literally see the bomb on top of their head.


I can think of ways of hitting back the Russians without escalating if Russia decides to hit an a country providing military supplies and equipment. Belarus. They have many Russian helicopters and fighter planes along with those Iskander missile platforms that are lobbing those missiles into Western Ukraine. Destroy those, it will help Ukraine more.


----------



## Clutch

mmr said:


> I am not sure why he contradicting. I can see ppl doing what ever they can to help.
> 
> In canada they have accepted thousands of Syrians and other refugees in the past. And i can see Ukrainian refugees are mostly women and kids. While in 2015 it was mostly man who were coming to Europe. Most of them are young too. So i am not sure why those man were running away while women and kids were struck in bombing.
> 
> How do i feel? I fully support Ukrainian women and kids getting help.
> 
> I am disappointed why so called rich gulf countries didnt do shit to take any refugees during 2015.


Muslim countries have taken many times more Syrian refugees then Europe... Fyi. Stop spreading BS.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Australia to send armored vehicles to Ukraine after request
> 
> 
> Prime Minister Scott Morrison says Australia will send armored Bushmaster vehicles to Ukraine after President Volodymyr Zelenskyy specifically asked for them while appealing to Australian lawmakers for more help in Ukraine’s war against Russia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abcnews.go.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like we are sending some Bushmaster 4x4 Carrier to Ukraine.....
> 
> View attachment 829417
> 
> 
> Exact number and type is unknown, ADF have more than 1000 Bushmaster 4x4 in surplus, Bushmaster is very versatile vehicle, they can mount just about anything on top, from 25mm autocannon to AT Missile. It carry 10 troops in addition to the crew serve weapon. It's mine resistant and armoured up to 12.7 calibre.


U.S. should transfer Humvees (which the Ukrainians already using) and MRAPs, we have thousands of them. I'm certain there are many vehicles gathering dust in Europe, someone should start looking and see what they can do to help Ukraine. Russian made BMPs, BTRs, helos, etc.

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## mmr

Clutch said:


> Muslim countries have taken many times more Syrian refugees then Europe... Fyi. Stop spreading BS.


Yes turkey did. Not duabi or saudis. I said rich gulf countries.


----------



## Oldman1

Viet said:


> Germany green lights the resell of 58 light tanks to Ukraine.
> 
> View attachment 829411
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deutschland genehmigt Panzerlieferung an die Ukraine
> 
> 
> Bundesverteidigungsministerin Christine Lambrecht (SPD) genehmigt die Lieferung von 58 Schützenpanzer an die Ukraine, wie die "Welt" berichtet. Die gepanzerten Fahrzeuge stammen noch aus DDR-Beständen.
> 
> 
> 
> web.de


Britain, Germany and Australia now providing vehicles, the U.S. should do the same. Even encourage other hesitant European countries to do the same.

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## Inception-06

Now with the Counter offensive the hell will take the Russians, strong men Putin should Stand by his men like Selensky !


----------



## Apollon

Oldman1 said:


> U.S. should transfer Humvees (which the Ukrainians already using) and MRAPs, we have thousands of them. I'm certain there are many vehicles gathering dust in Europe, someone should start looking and see what they can do to help Ukraine. Russian made BMPs, BTRs, helos, etc.



I agree, media in germany say the war shifts from defense to offense now. Russias attack collapses, now its about destroying them. At moment its even possible to retake crimea. The type of weapons needed is different now. Humvees, tanks, drones.



Inception-06 said:


> Now with the Counter offensive the hell will take the Russians, strong men Putin should Stand by his men like Selensky !



Only with a 30m long table 😂

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## Oldman1

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509866236930404356


Almost Doolittle Raid equivalent but also significant since it force the Russians to ration in the region because they need that fuel for the military operation in Donbas.


----------



## Viet

Wow

Russia loss is horrific.

Per Csis, Russia casualty can be as high as 45,000 men.










Russian Casualties in Ukraine: Reaching the Tipping Point


In four weeks of combat, Russia may have lost 25 percent of its initial attacking force. These casualties are not on the scale of World War II but are large compared with the relatively small size of the Russian military today. Although reinforcements and replacements can offset some of these...




www.csis.org

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## Clutch

mmr said:


> Yes turkey did. Not duabi or saudis. I said rich gulf countries.



So did Jordan, many went to Egypt. Dubai and Saudi Arabia are fascist states... And there is no other countries in the middle east to go to.

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## Oldman1

Apollon said:


> I agree, media in germany say the war shifts from defense to offense now. Russias attack collapses, now its about destroying them. At moment its even possible to retake crimea. The type of weapons needed is different now. Humvees, tanks, drones.
> 
> 
> 
> Only with a 30m long table 😂


They need to retake Crimea so it won't be use for any future invasion of Ukraine. Same for the Donbas region. Two major cities Donetsk and Luhansk can also be used as major fortresses against any future invasion as long as Putin is in power, he will do it again whether he loses or gets some of Ukrainian territory, he won't stop. Controlling Mariupol, Donetsk and Luhansk, it be like Kharkiv, Sumy and Chernihiv strongholds in the north holding and attacking an invasion force especially the supply line.

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## mmr

Clutch said:


> So did Jordan, many went to Egypt. Dubai and Saudi Arabia are fascist states... And there is no other countries in the middle east to go to.


saudis and dubai are fascist? are u nuts.

they are just selfish that's all.

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## Viet

Oldman1 said:


> A thousand T-72s is a lot. Very much enough for possible counterattack and counteroffensive, even retake Crimea and Donbas region which is in the interest of Ukraine and Europe as well as as for the U.S. I know the Marine Corps gave up their tanks for a shift in doctrine of possible war in the Pacific and didn't want the tanks anymore. Should give it to the Poland since Poland already bought 250 Abrams tanks and should get more to boost the NATO strength. Even with the classified armor. Its better in the long term of a strong NATO country like Poland. U.S. wouldn't have to worry about keeping a 100k military personnel every time there is a conflict in or near Europe. Should trade for like 3 T-72s for every 1 Abrams. So Poland getting almost 600 Abrams tanks total while Ukraine gets a thousand T-72s.


Ukraine can retake Donbas.
Crime will be a risk. a nuclear war with Russia.


----------



## Apollon

Oldman1 said:


> They need to retake Crimea so it won't be use for any future invasion of Ukraine. Same for the Donbas region. Two major cities Donetsk and Luhansk can also be used as major fortresses against any future invasion as long as Putin is in power, he will do it again whether he loses or gets some of Ukrainian territory, he won't stop. Controlling Mariupol, Donetsk and Luhansk, it be like Kharkiv, Sumy and Chernihiv strongholds in the north holding and attacking an invasion force especially the supply line.



Lots of cleaning work to do. Not just washing out russian troops but also the local vasalls and officials installed by russia


----------



## Clutch

mmr said:


> saudis and dubai are fascist? are u nuts.
> 
> they are just selfish that's all.



Selfish fascist...

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Oldman1

Viet said:


> Ukraine can retake Donbas.
> Crime will be a risk. a nuclear war with Russia.


IMO, Russia won't use nukes because it really doesn't threaten Russia's existence, it really doesn't. Should Russia threaten to use nukes when they take and annex Donbas as well? Use nukes every time they take territory?

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## Viet

Oldman1 said:


> They need to retake Crimea so it won't be use for any future invasion of Ukraine. Same for the Donbas region. Two major cities Donetsk and Luhansk can also be used as major fortresses against any future invasion as long as Putin is in power, he will do it again whether he loses or gets some of Ukrainian territory, he won't stop. Controlling Mariupol, Donetsk and Luhansk, it be like Kharkiv, Sumy and Chernihiv strongholds in the north holding and attacking an invasion force especially the supply line.


Putin will never let Crime to surrender. That will be the end of his regime. He will use nuclear weapons. The risk is real. I am for retaking however the risk is unacceptable unless Ukraine acquires nuclear weapons.


----------



## Oldman1

Apollon said:


> Lots of cleaning work to do. Not just washing out russian troops but also the local vasalls and officials installed by russia


Either they accept Ukrainian rule or move out and flee to Russia which has a lot of land for Pro-Russian populace. I mean Putin brought his people in along with Russian military forces in disguise. Ukrainians can deal with them by forcing them out. 








Viet said:


> Putin will never let Crime to surrender. That will be the end of his regime. He will use nuclear weapons. The risk is real. I am for retaking however the risk is unacceptable unless Ukraine acquires nuclear weapons.


So every time he takes piece by piece of Ukraine and each time Ukraine wants it back he will use nukes?

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## Trango Towers

Vergennes said:


> Inside hostomel airport... first picture of AN225 destroyed with a Russian VDV BMD destroyed.... the AN224 is damaged but seems can be saved. Everywhere russians go they only bring death and destruction...
> 
> View attachment 829461
> 
> View attachment 829460


Interesting comment re Russians and death and destruction..when nato was in Iraq Afghanistan etc what were they doing? 
Also Ukraine had the 3rd largest contingent in Iraq. Were they delivering food medicines and flowers to people? You reap what you sow. War is terrible but the west in its entirety has blood on its hands.

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## Apollon

Trango Towers said:


> Interesting comment re Russians and death and destruction..when nato was in Iraq Afghanistan etc what were they doing?
> Also Ukraine had the 3rd largest contingent in Iraq. Were they delivering food medicines and flowers to people? You reap what you sow. War is terrible but the west in its entirety has blood on its hands.



Such comments are cringe. 

Name a country that has no blood on its hands? All have. All nations stand on foundations of bones. 

As for the lost An-225, Airbus plans to look of A380 can replace it with modifications. The A380 has same power levels.


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## Viet

Oldman1 said:


> Either they accept Ukrainian rule or move out and flee to Russia which has a lot of land for Pro-Russian populace. I mean Putin brought his people in along with Russian military forces in disguise. Ukrainians can deal with them by forcing them out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So every time he takes piece by piece of Ukraine and each time Ukraine wants it back he will use nukes?


That’s a dilemma when you live close to a hooligan. It’s a nightmare the hooligan is 10x or 20x bigger and plus, lots of nuclear weapons.

What you think how people in Vietnam think when looking at China?

We can feel the feelings of Ukraine.

We will never go to war with China unless we are backed by a superpower, or ourselves armed with nuclear weapons.


----------



## Trango Towers

Apollon said:


> Such comments are cringe.
> 
> Name a country that has no blood on its hands? All have. All nations stand on foundations of bones.
> 
> As for the lost An-225, Airbus plans to look of A380 can replace it with modifications. The A380 has same power levels.


Sadly you are correct..man has not and will not learn from history or even try to become non barbaric. 
An 225 loss is sad as it was mainly used for humanitarian work globally.


----------



## Oldman1

Viet said:


> That’s a problem when you live close to a hooligan. It’s a nightmare even the hooligan is 10x or 20x bigger and lots of nuclear weapons.
> 
> What you think how people in Vietnam think when looking at China?
> 
> We can feel the feelings of Ukraine.


I will say this, losing Crimea won't be the end of his regime, he just lost what he took few years ago and the Russian people are not really concerned about this. Nuking Ukraine on the other hand, well the Russian people if they see that will be horrified and will overthrow his rule. And Russia will be joining the club with U.S. as the only countries to use nukes in wartime.


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## Viet

Oldman1 said:


> I will say this, losing Crimea won't be the end of his regime, he just lost what he took few years ago and the Russian people are not really concerned about this. Nuking Ukraine on the other hand, well the Russian people if they see that will be horrified and will overthrow his rule. And Russia will be joining the club with U.S. as the only countries to use nukes in wartime.


Russians in general don’t care of Crime, they more worry how to get foods, how to survive the sanctions. The problem is with Putin. We don’t know how far he will go.


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## Oldman1

Viet said:


> That’s a dilemma when you live close to a hooligan. It’s a nightmare the hooligan is 10x or 20x bigger and plus, lots of nuclear weapons.
> 
> What you think how people in Vietnam think when looking at China?
> 
> We can feel the feelings of Ukraine.
> 
> We will never go to war with China unless we are backed by a superpower, or ourselves armed with nuclear weapons.


You don't have to go to war with China, just need to make it so costly for them just like in the Sino-Vietnam War. Ukraine has been planning for this when dealing with Russia. Vietnam needs to know how to deal with China.

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## Apollon

Trango Towers said:


> Sadly you are correct..man has not and will not learn from history or even try to become non barbaric.
> An 225 loss is sad as it was mainly used for humanitarian work globally.



Definitly, hopefully a modified A380 can replace it.


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## Oldman1

Viet said:


> Russians in general don’t care of Crime, they more worry how to get foods, how to survive the sanctions. The problem is with Putin. We don’t know how far he will go.


Well thats on the Russian government, military and the people on how to deal with Putin and his possible use of nukes. Will they listen and follow those type of orders...?


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## Viet

Oldman1 said:


> Well thats on the Russian government, military and the people on how to deal with Putin and his possible use of nukes. Will they listen and follow those type of orders...?


Putin inner circle is few men, most are comrades from KGB, military and security. They are not politicians, not strategists, they are extremists.

It’s not in the days of USSR, with politburo and central commission.


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## Oldman1

Viet said:


> Putin inner circle is few men, most are comrades from KGB, military and security. They are not politicians, not strategists, they are extremists.
> 
> It’s not in the days of USSR, with politburo and central commission.


Well we will see how it goes. They may be few men, but they have to control millions of people. Right now the Kremlin is barricaded because possible protest and even an overthrow.


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## sammuel

Oldman1 said:


> Either they accept Ukrainian rule or move out and flee to Russia which has a lot of land for Pro-Russian populace. I mean Putin brought his people in along with Russian military forces in disguise. Ukrainians can deal with them by forcing them out.








The Size of Russia never seizes to amaze me. Why would the largest country in the world seek to conquer more and more land ? How greedy can you get ?

This war is the most unnecessary and unjustified war since WW2.

But this war is not about necessity , it is about one man ego.








~

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## Viet

Oldman1 said:


> Well we will see how it goes. They may be few men, but they have to control millions of people. Right now the Kremlin is barricaded because possible protest and even an overthrow.


Putin is rich. He makes his comrades and oligarchs rich. Russia population is poor. He cares least of them. He only cares of his ego. He makes Russia into a gas station.
He has the backing from military and security apparatuses plus communist China.
What he fears most: a liberal democratic Ukraine.

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## Ich

Something is going on in Asia between China, India, Pakistan since Ukraine war. Lets see how it develops. Kickout the US always make regions peaceful.



https://www.rt.com/news/553154-pakistan-india-foreign-policy/

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## Shahzad hanif

It doesn't make a damned bit of difference who wins the war to someone who's dead

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## Messerschmitt

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510094022970417160




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510023089949745155

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> U.S. should transfer Humvees (which the Ukrainians already using) and MRAPs, we have thousands of them. I'm certain there are many vehicles gathering dust in Europe, someone should start looking and see what they can do to help Ukraine. Russian made BMPs, BTRs, helos, etc.


They did, it included unspecified amount of Uparmored Humvee in this 300 millions aid package

And the Bushmaster 4x4 is a MRAP.



Oldman1 said:


> I can think of ways of hitting back the Russians without escalating if Russia decides to hit an a country providing military supplies and equipment. Belarus. They have many Russian helicopters and fighter planes along with those Iskander missile platforms that are lobbing those missiles into Western Ukraine. Destroy those, it will help Ukraine more.


Nah man, if they really do attack a third country for supplying weapon to Ukraine, that's going to go down hill really quick. 

As I said, it would be fun if the Russia attack Australia and then we send our own Air Force in and help Ukraine, they will lost probably just then and there.

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## khansaheeb

Russia praises India's neutral stance on Ukraine fighting


Russia’s foreign minister has lauded India for not judging in a “one-sided way” as he discussed Moscow’s military involvement in Ukraine with his Indian counterpart, after Washington urged New Delhi to use its leverage with Russia to end the war




abcnews.go.com




Russia praises India's neutral stance on Ukraine fighting​Russia’s foreign minister has lauded India for not judging in a “one-sided way” as he discussed Moscow’s military involvement in Ukraine with his Indian counterpart, after Washington urged New Delhi to use its leverage with Russia to end the war
By ASHOK SHARMA Associated Press
April 1, 2022, 7:45 AM
• 4 min read







3:16
On Location: April 1, 2022
Catch up on the developing stories making headlines.
The Associated Press
NEW DELHI -- Russia's foreign minister lauded India for not judging in a "one-sided way" as he discussed Moscow's military involvement in Ukraine with his Indian counterpart on Friday, after Washington urged New Delhi to use its leverage with Russia to end the war.

Indian External Affairs Minister Subrahmanyam Jaishankar and Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said ties between the two countries have sustained them through difficult times in the past.

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Jaishankar emphasized the importance of a cessation of violence but avoided condemning Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

"Differences and disputes should be resolved through dialogue and diplomacy and by respect for international law, the U.N. Charter, sovereignty and territorial integrity of states," he said.

Lavrov praised India for judging "the situation in its entirety, not just in a one-sided way." He expressed hope that mutual respect in search of a balance in ties will prevail in the future.

Lavrov also met Prime Minister Narendra Modi and briefed him on the situation in Ukraine, including ongoing peace negotiations, the Indian foreign ministry said.

Modi urged an "early cessation of violence, and conveyed India’s readiness to contribute in any way to the peace efforts,'' it said in a statement.

Modi did not meet with British Foreign Secretary Liz Truss and Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi during their recent visits to New Delhi.


Asked by journalists if Modi could mediate between Moscow and Kyiv, Lavrov replied, “I haven't heard about such talk, frankly speaking.”

"Given India’s position of a just and rational approach toward international problems, it can support such a process. No one is against it, I think,” he said.

The two sides were expected to discuss the uninterrupted supply of spare parts for Russian-made military equipment in India's arsenal, trade, and oil payments in rubles, as demanded by Moscow.

India was Moscow's ally during the Cold War but has since sought to maintain ties with both Russia and Western nations.

On Thursday, U.S. State Department spokesperson Ned Price said the U.S. expects India to use its relations with Russia to help end the war in Ukraine.

“Different countries are going to have their own relationship with the Russian Federation. It’s a fact of history, it’s a fact of geography. That is not something that we are seeking to change,“ Price told reporters in Washington.

He said the U.S. is looking for its friends and allies to speak in unison and loudly against the "unjustified, unprovoked, premeditated Russian aggression.”

Experts say up to 60% of Indian defense equipment was acquired from Russia. New Delhi finds itself in a bind at a time when it is facing a 2-year-old standoff with China along their disputed border, with tens of thousands of soldiers within shooting distance. Twenty Indian soldiers and four Chinese soldiers died in a clash in 2020.

In the early 1990s, about 70% of Indian army weapons, 80% of its air force systems and 85% of its navy platforms were of Soviet origin. India is now reducing its dependency on Russian arms and diversifying its defense procurement, buying more from the United States, Israel, France and Italy.

But Indian energy dependency on Russia remains a factor in relations.

Last month, the state-run Indian Oil Corp. bought 3 million barrels of crude from Russia to secure its needs, resisting Western pressure to avoid such purchases.

Jaishankar, who met Truss on Thursday, defended India’s decision and decried "what looks almost like a campaign on this issue.”

He said March figures show that Europe bought 15% more oil and gas from Russia than it did in February.

"We get the bulk of our supply from the Middle East. In the past, India bought less than 1% from Russia. When the oil prices go up it is natural for countries to go out to the market and look up for good deals that are good for people,” he said at a meeting of the India-U.K. Strategic Futures Forum.

"I am quite sure that if we wait for two-three months and look at who are the big buyers, I suspect the list will not be vastly different. I suspect we will not be in top 10 on that list.“

The United States, Britain and other Western countries are urging India to avoid buying Russian oil and gas. Indian media reports said Russia was offering a discount on oil purchases of 20% below global benchmark prices.

———









Russia-Ukraine updates: US sanctions Russian military shipbuilder, diamond miner


Updates on the Russia-Ukraine crisis.




abcnews.go.com





Russia-Ukraine live updates: US cancels ballistic missile test to avoid escalation​The test was initially postponed in early March to avoid "misinterpretation."
ByMorgan Winsor,Emily Shapiro,Nadine El-Bawab,Ivan Pereira,Julia Jacobo,Meredith Deliso,Bill Hutchinson,Kevin Shalvey,Celia Darrough, andMary Kekatos
Last Updated: April 1, 2022, 6:11 PM ET






5:41




24/7 Coverage of Breaking News and Live Events
What are Russians risking by protesting Putin?
What are Russians risking by protesting Putin?
Many Russians have taken to the streets to protest the Kremlin’s invasion of Ukraine, eve...Read More

Russian forces are continuing their attempted push through Ukraine from multiple directions, while Ukrainians, led by President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, are putting up "stiff resistance," according to U.S. officials.

The attack began Feb. 24, when Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a "special military operation." Heavy shelling and missile attacks, many on civilian buildings, continue in Ukraine's capital, Kyiv, as well as other major cities like Kharkiv and Mariupol.












Two Men at War
A look at the two leaders at the center of the war in Ukraine and how they both rose to power, the difference in their leadership and what led to this moment in history.
STREAM ONHULU
Latest headlines:​
Ukraine, Russia hold talks on proposed security guarantee treaty
Red Cross unable to reach Mariupol, will attempt again Saturday
Radiation around Chernobyl plant is normal: IAEA director general
Ukraine declines to comment on Russia's accusation of attacking oil depot
Russia accuses Ukraine of striking oil depot in Russian city of Belgorod
Here's how the news is developing. All times Eastern.
Apr 01, 6:11 pm
US cancels ballistic missile test to avoid escalation with Russia​A U.S. intercontinental ballistic missile test that was initially postponed in early March to avoid "misinterpretation" by Russia was recently canceled, the Department of the Air Force said Friday.
Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin originally delayed the routine test flight of an LGM-30G Minuteman III missile after Russia put its nuclear deterrent forces on a state of heightened alert.
"The launch had been previously delayed due to an overabundance of caution to avoid misinterpretation or miscommunication during the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine and was cancelled for the same reason," the Air Force said in a statement. "Our next planned test flight is later this year. The Department is confident in the readiness of the strategic forces of the United States."
_-ABC News' Matt Seyler_
Apr 01, 4:23 pm
Kyiv suburb Bucha liberated from Russian forces, mayor says​Bucha, a suburb of the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv, has been liberated from Russian forces, its mayor declared.

"March 31 will go down in the history of our settlement and the entire territorial community as a day of liberation from the Russian occupiers by our armed forces,” Mayor Anatolii Fedoruk said in a video posted to Facebook Friday. "Today I state that this day is joyful and it is a great victory of our armed forces in Kyiv region."
Last week, Ukraine's Defense Ministry said Russian forces battling toward Kyiv were able to partially take several northwestern suburbs, including Bucha.
_-ABC News' Irene Hanatiyuk_
Apr 01, 3:56 pm
Over 6,200 evacuated from southeastern Ukraine Friday​Over 6,200 people were evacuated from regions in southeastern Ukraine Friday by buses and private cars, according to Ukrainian officials.
In the Donetsk region, 3,071 people were evacuated from the besieged port city of Mariupol, officials said.









Felipe Dana/AP
A police officer checks documents of a family arriving from Mariupol at a refugee center i...Read More
Earlier Friday, Mariupol officials said an estimated 100,000 civilians remained trapped in the city despite repeated efforts by Ukrainian officials to evacuate them.
Additionally, over 1,700 people were evacuated from the Luhansk region, and over 1,400 from the Zaporizhzhia region, Ukrainian officials said.
_-ABC News' Irene Hanatiyuk_

Apr 01, 1:20 pm
Ukraine, Russia hold talks on proposed security guarantee treaty​Russian and Ukrainian negotiators continued peace talks virtually on Friday, Mykhailo Podolyak, a chief negotiator for the Ukrainians, told ABC News.
"On the table is the key document proposed by the Ukrainian delegation - the Treaty on Security Guarantees," Podolyak said. This proposed agreement provides for the possibility of exit from the war and the prevention of future conflicts.
Ukraine proposed a new system of security guarantees similar to NATO's collective defense clause which would legally require "guarantor countries" to provide arms and impose a "no-fly" zone over Ukraine, in the event of an attack.
Both sides are working on the legal wording of the basic provisions of the contract, Podolyak said.
"The discussion is extremely difficult, since the negotiating positions of the parties are strongly influenced by the daily change in the military situation on all lines of contact," Podolyak said.
_-ABC News' Bruno Roeber and James Longman_


----------



## khansaheeb

Seems Russia is not retreating but changing tactics. Over 10 Million refugees are expected to flee Ukraine, more cities will fall and there will be far greater collateral damage. It will get bloodier as the Western weapons saturate the battlefield with well trained Ukrainian warriors and make an impact. Ukraine will bleed slowly and the suffering of the trapped civilians will get worse mostly the aged who don't have the money or will to leave. This war must stop, the UN must do more to negotiate peace and the West must stop fueling conflict and egging on to a humanitarian disaster. The reality of war is on the door steps of Europe and irresponsible statements risk further expansion of war.


----------



## Vergennes

khansaheeb said:


> Seems Russia is not retreating but changing tactics. Over 10 Million refugees are expected to flee Ukraine, more cities will fall and there will be far greater collateral damage. It will get bloodier as the Western weapons saturate the battlefield with well trained Ukrainian warriors and make an impact. Ukraine will bleed slowly and the suffering of the trapped civilians will get worse mostly the aged who don't have the money or will to leave. This war must stop, the UN must do more to negotiate peace and the West must stop fueling conflict and egging on to a humanitarian disaster. The reality of war is on the door steps of Europe and irresponsible statements risk further expansion of war.



Conflict can stop right away if Russia stops its agression (over BS motives) against Ukraine and its troops leaving territories they occupy,not Ukraine stopping to defend itself against Russia's unlawful agression...

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510173898251382785

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510094022970417160



WOW - First confirmed Video kill of the British Starstreak SAM system - Combat Proven now!!

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## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> Putin will never let Crime to surrender. That will be the end of his regime. He will use nuclear weapons. The risk is real. I am for retaking however the risk is unacceptable unless Ukraine acquires nuclear weapons.



In addition to what others have said - I also don't see Nukes entering the equation if Ukraine can retake Crimea - the nuclear fallout will affect Russia as they are neighbours.


----------



## dBSPL

Metro 2033 prologue


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510147321190928388

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## Apollon

khansaheeb said:


> Seems Russia is not retreating but changing tactics. Over 10 Million refugees are expected to flee Ukraine, more cities will fall and there will be far greater collateral damage. It will get bloodier as the Western weapons saturate the battlefield with well trained Ukrainian warriors and make an impact. Ukraine will bleed slowly and the suffering of the trapped civilians will get worse mostly the aged who don't have the money or will to leave. This war must stop, the UN must do more to negotiate peace and the West must stop fueling conflict and egging on to a humanitarian disaster. The reality of war is on the door steps of Europe and irresponsible statements risk further expansion of war.



How about Vlad leaves Ukraine instead? It ends the very minute. Before that happenes we will continue sending weapons


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## Avicenna

Apollon said:


> How about Vlad leaves Ukraine instead? It ends the very minute. Before that happenes we will continue sending weapons



WTF is "we"?

You live in your parents basement eating pizzas.

What is this "we" business?

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## sammuel

dBSPL said:


> Metro 2033 prologue
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510147321190928388



Wow , what pointless destruction. Why would someone want to do something like that ?

That was Mariupol , before Putin succumb to his ego trip :







~

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## Danish Moazzam

sammuel said:


> Wow , what pointless destruction. Why would someone want to do something like that ?
> 
> That was Mariupol , before Putin succumb to his ego trip :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


You should also post pictures of Tripoli, Haleb, Jerusalem, Basra, etc before the American madness took over.

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## Apollon

Avicenna said:


> WTF is "we"?
> 
> You live in your parents basement eating pizzas.
> 
> What is this "we" business?



I dont eat Pizza, im a fitness freak.

I also dont live in a basement. My parents live like 1800km away from me.

We as Europe. Im a european citizen and im proud that our tax money is used to bake off some russian tanks.

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## Vergennes

Apollon said:


> I dont eat Pizza, im a fitness freak.
> 
> I also dont live in a basement. My parents live like 1800km away from me.
> 
> We as Europe. Im a european citizen and im proud that our tax money is used to bake off some russian tanks.



Seeing burned Russian tanks/vehicles and russian trolls crying about their so beloved world's second most powerful army getting trashed is just priceless.

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## Apollon

Vergennes said:


> Seeing burned Russian tanks/vehicles and russian trolls crying about their so beloved world's second most powerful army getting trashed is just priceless.



Definitly. The moment you see the flames coming out the tanks tower:


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## DF41

sammuel said:


> Wow , what pointless destruction. Why would someone want to do something like that ?
> 
> That was Mariupol , before Putin succumb to his ego trip :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


Since you so supportive of Ukraine and the Nazis in there, you better work on that toothbrush moustache as I advised you to do .

You be most welcomed by his greatest fans in Ukraine trying to do better than Adolf.







You deny John Mearsheimer on why the West is principally responsible for the #Ukrainian crisis?

Read this if you not done so as the destruction was all caused and financed by USA and orchestrated by USA and NATO

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506966830837022727
And how about 










Perfectly Lawful and Legal and Unfortunate


By Anna Von Reitz People keep wondering what to think about the situation in Ukraine. Many are still believing what they hear on the news....




www.paulstramer.net





Brief extract
Perfectly Lawful and Legal and Unfortunate
By Anna Von Reitz

People keep wondering what to think about the situation in Ukraine. Many are still believing what they hear on the news.

When the old Russian Federation broke up, and Russia released the Ukraine as an independent country it came with the proviso that if there was evidence of criminality, genocide, international threats to Russia on Ukrainian soil, etc. Russia could come back in and secure the situation. This is part of Russia's obligation to the rest of the world as well as a matter of Russian security.

So, Ukraine was free to be its own country, with the understanding that they were going to be good little international citizens. And if they got out of hand, Russia would come back in and clean things up.

Following Ukrainian independence in 1991, the Usual Suspects piled on. It was like a gold rush. Drug smuggling. Human trafficking. Arms sales. Counterfeiting. Organ harvesting. Oil privateering. Every sordid nasty dirty business in the world was imported to Ukraine, by all the Agencies, the "US Corp", the DOD, the Mobs of various nations, and associated corporations like Blackwater and Halliburton and on and on and on. All the Dirty Deal Guys showed up like gangbangers.

And everyone including Russia just shook their heads. It was business as usual for the Ollie Norths of the world.

Predictably, some Ukrainian oligarchs floated to the top of the cesspit and became politicians.

The whole situation took an exponential leap downward during the Obama Administration, when Joe Biden and members of the US CONGRESS got involved in paying the oligarchs tons of helicopter money for their personal support on one hand, and taking billions out of the Ukrainian economy on the other.

It was just a shameless wholesale sell out of Ukraine and the people of Ukraine. Their oil pillaged, their trade policies manipulated, their entire country opened up to every kind of vice, but the final straw was the DOD opening up over a dozen bioweapon laboratories in Ukraine.

So, Russia invoked its treaty proviso and came in to clean the situation up and as Vladimir Putin said, "take the garbage out" --- not because they wanted to spend all that money and risk their lives and take all the abuse that the propaganda machine can throw --- but because otherwise, they'd have all those stockpiles of chemical and biological weapon on their back door step, along with all the other nastiness that was already going on.

We have to note that Ukraine was a backup roosting place for the Vermin in the event that their plans for China didn't work out to their liking, but China woke up and decided not to eat the tapeworm, which took that port in a storm off the table and put the pressure back on Ukraine.

What Russia is doing is perfectly lawful and legal and unfortunate. Nobody wanted it to come to this, but at the same time, the people of Ukraine had lost control and the crime syndicates and NATO idiots were endangering everyone in the region. Russia had the proviso and they exercised it, and nobody can say that all those chemical and bioweapon laboratories and all the rest of it, were not sufficient provocation.

Oh. Except for the feckless News Media in this country and the spokespersons for the Biden Administration. (Think about that as a Career Killer -- spokesperson for the Biden Administration?) They like to endlessly repeat their little catch-phrase about "unprovoked attack by Russia" and shake their heads as if they just can't imagine why Russia would do such a thing?

They know why Russia did it. They are the reason. They created the problem that Russia is stuck cleaning up. Joe and Hunter Biden were in there, as we all know, influence peddling, and threatening, and paying off payola left and right. So was Nancy Pelosi's son. So was Mitt Romney's son. Half a dozen members of Congress were directly up to their tidy whities in it, robbing the people of Ukraine, stealing "foreign aid", etc., etc., etc.

Yet, here are the Arch-Hypocrites, attempting to blame Russia for cleaning up their mess? Rich, isn't it?

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## Wood

sammuel said:


> The Size of Russia never seizes to amaze me. Why would the largest country in the world seek to conquer more and more land ? How greedy can you get ?


You should look for habitable land. Also keep in mind that countries like Canada and Russia will look bigger than they actually are in such two dimensional projections of three dimensional globe.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510203444547756036


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510012047819513862





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510214095844356097

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510212830313779206

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510215199768428544

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## Apollon

Another backstab from Uncle Xi, for first time China openly commented on the Sanctions after the EU China summit...

China calls the sanctions regrettable...but wont help russia to get around them. 





__





ZEIT ONLINE | Lesen Sie zeit.de mit Werbung oder im PUR-Abo. Sie haben die Wahl.







www.zeit.de





I love Chinas support with warm words. Putin is drowning, his army obliterated...and Xi issues kind words and moral support.

@beijingwalker

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## chinasun

Apollon said:


> Another backstab from Uncle Xi, for first time China openly commented on the Sanctions after the EU China summit...
> 
> China calls the sanctions regrettable...but wont help russia to get around them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ZEIT ONLINE | Lesen Sie zeit.de mit Werbung oder im PUR-Abo. Sie haben die Wahl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.zeit.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love Chinas support with warm words. Putin is drowning, his army obliterated...and Xi issues kind words and moral support.
> 
> @beijingwalker


China has not participated in the sanctions, and the normal economic activities of China and Russia are not affected by the sanctions.

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## Apollon

chinasun said:


> China has not participated in the sanctions, and the normal economic activities of China and Russia are not affected by the sanctions.



But doesnt help Russia either. Just standing at side and tell warm words. 

China sees how weak Russia is...why do trade when you can take it?

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## Wood

Apollon said:


> Another backstab from Uncle Xi, for first time China openly commented on the Sanctions after the EU China summit...
> 
> China calls the sanctions regrettable...but wont help russia to get around them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ZEIT ONLINE | Lesen Sie zeit.de mit Werbung oder im PUR-Abo. Sie haben die Wahl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.zeit.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love Chinas support with warm words. Putin is drowning, his army obliterated...and Xi issues kind words and moral support.
> 
> @beijingwalker


If you want to help Russia get around sanctions, then first step you tell everyone that you will not help Russia get around sanctions

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## chinasun

Apollon said:


> But doesnt help Russia either. Just standing at side and tell warm words.
> 
> China sees how weak Russia is...why do trade when you can take it?


I don't see Russia weak. I only see that Ukraine destroyed its nuclear weapons, and the United States and the West vowed to protect Ukraine.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510233153964752903

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## Wood

chinasun said:


> I don't see Russia weak. I only see that Ukraine destroyed its nuclear weapons, and the United States and the West vowed to protect Ukraine.


Ukraine did not have the money to maintain its nukes and things like that is what I remember reading. If they could afford to keep viable nuclear weapons, they probably would have


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510236507197554693

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## jhungary

chinasun said:


> I don't see Russia weak. I only see that Ukraine destroyed its nuclear weapons, and the United States and the West vowed to protect Ukraine.


As much s Russia vowed not to attack Ukraine...

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## Wood

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510023089949745155


Seems like this system is not easily portable?

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## Ali_Baba

Wood said:


> Seems like this system is not easily portable?



There are different variants of it - including a single missile that looks like a stinger - 






Video shows all 3 variants.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510186647773663239

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510241793329221632

Russian thieves got roasted

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510241793329221632
> 
> Russian thieves got roasted



Pretty sure Syrian soldiers are impressed by Russian soldiers looting skills.

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## chinasun

jhungary said:


> As much s Russia vowed not to attack Ukraine...


China opposes Russia's invasion of Ukraine. I didn't expect that the United States, Britain and Russia are the same. Didn't keep their vows.

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## jhungary

Izyum still seeing fiercest fighting in the Kharkiv region - Head of Regional Military Administration​








Izyum still seeing fiercest fighting in the Kharkiv region - Head of Regional Military Administration


Olha Hlushchenko - Saturday, April 2, 2022, 02:44




www.pravda.com.ua


----------



## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> Pretty sure Syrian soldiers are impressed by Russian soldiers looting skills.



The looting is nothing compared to their other horrific war crimes. Apparently a group of Russians gang raped a 12 year old girl in Mauripol repeatedly then killed her in cold blood.

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## jhungary

chinasun said:


> China opposes Russia's invasion of Ukraine. I didn't expect that the United States, Britain and Russia are the same. Didn't keep their vows.


Well, the US and UK are doing what they are vowed to do actually, they are engaged in this conflict by contributing weapon to Ukraine.

Budapest Memorandum only require US and UK to guarantee Ukrainian Security, it did not dictate how. So by contributing weapon and supply to Ukraine, it basically is the only lifeline Ukraine is surviving on. And in case you are wondering, it's currently working.

Here are the full text of Budapest Memorandum









Budapest Memorandums on Security Assurances, 1994


The Presidents of Ukraine, Russian Federation and United States of America, and the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom signed three memorandums (UN Document A/49/765) on December 5, 1994, with the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. Through this...



web.archive.org





_The Presidents of Ukraine, Russian Federation and United States of America, and the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom signed three memorandums (UN Document A/49/765) on December 5, 1994, with the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. Through this agreement, these countries (later to include China and France in individual statements) gave national security assurances to Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine. The Joint Declaration by the Russian Federation and the United States of America of December 4, 2009 confirmed their commitment.

Excerpt:_

"Welcoming the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons as a non-nuclear-weapon State,

Taking into account the commitment of Ukraine to eliminate all nuclear weapons from its territory within a specified period of time,

Noting the changes in the world-wide security situation, including the end of the cold war, which have brought about conditions for deep reductions in nuclear forces,

Confirm the following:

1. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America *reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine*, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, *to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine*;

2. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation *to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity* or

political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations;

3. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, *to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind*;

4. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to *seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine*, as a non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, *if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression* or *an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear

weapons are used*;

5. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm, in the case of Ukraine, their commitmen*t not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclearweapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons*,

except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a State in association or alliance with a nuclear-weapon State;

6. Ukraine, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America will *consult in the event a situation arises that raises a question concerning these commitments*.

This Memorandum will become applicable upon signature.

Signed in four copies having equal validity in the Ukrainian, English and Russian languages.

For Ukraine:

(Signed) Leonid D. KUCHMA

For the Russian Federation:

(Signed) Boris N. YELTSIN

For the United Kingdom of Great

Britain and Northern Ireland:

(Signed) John MAJOR

For the United States of America:

(Signed) William J. CLINTON

In fact, US and UK did not violate 1/2/3, Russia did. on 4. US and UK did call an UNSC meeting on the Ukrainian situation, just that Russia veto the motion, on 5. US and UK were never used or threatened to use Nuclear Weapon on Ukraine, Russia again did. On 6. I would say the issue have been seriously consulted both before and during the war.

So do tell me which point of Budapest Memorandum did US and UK not fulfil?

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## Apollon

Full scene of the russian helicopter biting the dust


----------



## F-22Raptor

There are also photos of Ukrainian civilians with their hands tied behind their backs executed by Russian soldiers. Also many dead civilians lying in the streets. 

Documentation of Russian war crimes is massive.

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## Apollon

F-22Raptor said:


> There are also photos of Ukrainian civilians with their hands tied behind their backs executed by Russian soldiers. Also many dead civilians lying in the streets.
> 
> Documentation of Russian war crimes is massive.



Its what they always do. Its just in the open now.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510253740586065925


----------



## Apollon

Ambushnon russian convoi .

Love how its still going few meters after got cooked.


----------



## sur

@sammuel did BBC say nazi'ism allegations were BS?


Is this Hitler in the picture?

Translation provided by tweep:
Photo from the phone of a nationalist from Azov-Aleksey Smykov who surrendered
Alexey told us in an interview that he simply went to Azov to block military service and does not welcome any Nazi ideology. And we ourselves thought
- the young kid apparently did - stupidity. But it turned out - a wolf in sheep's clothing ...

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510235605116264455

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510351520373645321




sur said:


> @sammuel you shared BBC claiming:
> 
> View attachment 829216
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following is also from BBC:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some excerpts from this *BBC *video:
> 
> 
> View attachment 829234
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 829221
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBC further says that political party C-14 is associated with has 4 ministries *including defense ministry*.
> 
> 
> 
> *2 of those Ukrainians ministers brandish symbol of "Heil Hitler" *. . . happy now @sammuel
> 
> View attachment 829224







In other news, Greek welcome NATO with flowers:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510226303420706817


----------



## FuturePAF

Full flight of a Javelin in combat from above. The ranges don’t seem so far in many of these videos that a shorter system could be used. Pakistan should work with China or Turkey, or by itself, to develop a RPG launched top attack ATGM that can penetrate the relatively thin top tank armor. Something like the mini spike. As well as add a ballistic computer and modest IR system to attach to the side, considering the prices for these components keep going down. Perhaps a warhead based on the HJ-73?


----------



## Meengla

FuturePAF said:


> Full flight of a Javelin in combat from above



I thought the Russians would have closely watched and learned lessons from the recent Armenia-Azerbaijan war and seen how drones and anti-tank missiles made the difference there. 
This war just confirms what I had thought for a long time: Russia is a paper tiger and even if they eventually prevail in Ukraine to make enough strategic gains, they used their poor soldiers as cannon fodders. So sad.

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## chinasun

jhungary said:


> Well, the US and UK are doing what they are vowed to do actually, they are engaged in this conflict by contributing weapon to Ukraine.
> 
> Budapest Memorandum only require US and UK to guarantee Ukrainian Security, it did not dictate how. So by contributing weapon and supply to Ukraine, it basically is the only lifeline Ukraine is surviving on. And in case you are wondering, it's currently working.
> 
> Here are the full text of Budapest Memorandum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Budapest Memorandums on Security Assurances, 1994
> 
> 
> The Presidents of Ukraine, Russian Federation and United States of America, and the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom signed three memorandums (UN Document A/49/765) on December 5, 1994, with the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. Through this...
> 
> 
> 
> web.archive.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _The Presidents of Ukraine, Russian Federation and United States of America, and the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom signed three memorandums (UN Document A/49/765) on December 5, 1994, with the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. Through this agreement, these countries (later to include China and France in individual statements) gave national security assurances to Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine. The Joint Declaration by the Russian Federation and the United States of America of December 4, 2009 confirmed their commitment.
> 
> Excerpt:_
> 
> "Welcoming the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons as a non-nuclear-weapon State,
> 
> Taking into account the commitment of Ukraine to eliminate all nuclear weapons from its territory within a specified period of time,
> 
> Noting the changes in the world-wide security situation, including the end of the cold war, which have brought about conditions for deep reductions in nuclear forces,
> 
> Confirm the following:
> 
> 1. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America *reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine*, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, *to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine*;
> 
> 2. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation *to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity* or
> 
> political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations;
> 
> 3. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, *to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind*;
> 
> 4. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to *seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine*, as a non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, *if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression* or *an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear
> 
> weapons are used*;
> 
> 5. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm, in the case of Ukraine, their commitmen*t not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclearweapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons*,
> 
> except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a State in association or alliance with a nuclear-weapon State;
> 
> 6. Ukraine, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America will *consult in the event a situation arises that raises a question concerning these commitments*.
> 
> This Memorandum will become applicable upon signature.
> 
> Signed in four copies having equal validity in the Ukrainian, English and Russian languages.
> 
> For Ukraine:
> 
> (Signed) Leonid D. KUCHMA
> 
> For the Russian Federation:
> 
> (Signed) Boris N. YELTSIN
> 
> For the United Kingdom of Great
> 
> Britain and Northern Ireland:
> 
> (Signed) John MAJOR
> 
> For the United States of America:
> 
> (Signed) William J. CLINTON
> 
> In fact, US and UK did not violate 1/2/3, Russia did. on 4. US and UK did call an UNSC meeting on the Ukrainian situation, just that Russia veto the motion, on 5. US and UK were never used or threatened to use Nuclear Weapon on Ukraine, Russia again did. On 6. I would say the issue have been seriously consulted both before and during the war.
> 
> So do tell me which point of Budapest Memorandum did US and UK not fulfil?


Machiavelli once wrote that "without its own arms, no principality is secure; indeed, it is wholly obliged to fortune since it does not have virtue to defend itself in adversity." In other words, the wise nation is the one that possesses its own means of self-defense. In an era of increasingly empty promises from Western democracies and unchecked rogue states, this axiom remains more relevant than ever.








One Key Lesson of Putin's War: The Stark Failure of the Budapest Memorandum


The wise nation is the one that possesses its own means of self-defense.




www.google.com




The sanctions against Russia also show that both personal and state property can be stolen. Cats and dogs will also be punished.


----------



## Wood

CNN analysts for the first time claim that Ukrainians will be looking at taking territory in South East from Russia. This movement may start as soon as Ukrainians have access to T 72s from NATO.

I hope their analysts are correct


----------



## gambit

chinasun said:


> Machiavelli once wrote that "without its own arms, no principality is secure; indeed, it is wholly obliged to fortune since it does not have virtue to defend itself in adversity." In other words, the wise nation is the one that possesses its own means of self-defense. In an era of increasingly empty promises from Western democracies and unchecked rogue states, this axiom remains more relevant than ever.


In other words, you made a false accusation against the US/UK because you did not read the original agreement, then when confronted with the evidence and question where the US/UK failed, you resorted to empty speeches.


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Full scene of the russian helicopter biting the dust



NATO supplied weapons to criminals in Afghanistan as it did to criminals in Libya and Syria as it is doing to criminals in Ukraine. May the pox take care of the Ukrainian Nazis.


----------



## gambit

Avicenna said:


> WTF is "we"?
> 
> You live in your parents basement eating pizzas.
> 
> What is this "we" business?


The question remains: *How about Vlad leaves Ukraine instead?*


----------



## chinasun

gambit said:


> In other words, you made a false accusation against the US/UK because you did not read the original agreement, then when confronted with the evidence and question where the US/UK failed, you resorted to empty speeches.


You deliberately ignored my news link below.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510271316250832905

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509974354557345795
American Colonel calling for a roll back of VETO system in UNSC. As counterintuitive as it may seem, this may be the only way for western alliance to further their agenda in UN. 🤔


----------



## gambit

chinasun said:


> You deliberately ignored my news link below.


Because it is unrelated to the question, which is where did the US/UK failed in the original agreement with Ukraine?


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510206027479896066

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## jhungary

chinasun said:


> Machiavelli once wrote that "without its own arms, no principality is secure; indeed, it is wholly obliged to fortune since it does not have virtue to defend itself in adversity." In other words, the wise nation is the one that possesses its own means of self-defense. In an era of increasingly empty promises from Western democracies and unchecked rogue states, this axiom remains more relevant than ever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One Key Lesson of Putin's War: The Stark Failure of the Budapest Memorandum
> 
> 
> The wise nation is the one that possesses its own means of self-defense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The sanctions against Russia also show that both personal and state property can be stolen. Cats and dogs will also be punished.


So you want to start WW3 because of Ukraine??

In modern politics, the separation between "you have to" and "you need to" is just how you see a line. Just because the West need to intervene, does not mean it have to, especially when there are multiple way to achieve the same goal.

As I said, there are no where in that memorandum saying the US and UK HAVE to guarantee Ukrainian security in a certain way. So, it is up to the United States and United Kingdom to determine what is the best way to secure Ukrainian Security.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510274616824152066

The CIA may have prevented the overthrow of the Zelensky government and defeat of Russian forces with this piece of intel. 

Its amazing how deep US intelligence had penetrated Russian forces.

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## lightning F57

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509974354557345795
> American Colonel calling for a roll back of VETO system in UNSC. As counterintuitive as it may seem, this may be the only way for western alliance to further their agenda in UN. 🤔



Hate their hypocrisy where they completely destroyed a nation on false pretences. Why not get rid of permanent seats and if your not willing to abide by UN then better stay quiet than show double standards.


----------



## jhungary

gambit said:


> In other words, you made a false accusation against the US/UK because you did not read the original agreement, then when confronted with the evidence and question where the US/UK failed, you resorted to empty speeches.


That's not even his speech to begin with. That's a direct quote from the link he quoted......

To which I ask, where did it say the US and UK did not fulfil their duty to assure Ukrainian security?


----------



## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510274616824152066
> 
> The CIA may have prevented the overthrow of the Zelensky government and defeat of Russian forces with this piece of intel.
> 
> Its amazing how deep US intelligence had penetrated Russian forces.




Now we understand why Russians got slaughtered at the airport. The Ukrainians were waiting for them.

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## FuturePAF

Meengla said:


> I thought the Russians would have closely watched and learned lessons from the recent Armenia-Azerbaijan war and seen how drones and anti-tank missiles made the difference there.
> This war just confirms what I had thought for a long time: Russia is a paper tiger and even if they eventually prevail in Ukraine to make enough strategic gains, they used their poor soldiers as cannon fodders. So sad.


Russia has been running on Soviet fumes for decades. Even in the late soviet period, their highly inefficient system created a force that looked powerful on paper but when it came to the Afghan war and then after the collapse, the Chechen wars, it only showed their limited economic means hamstrung them to attrition warfare. Even if Russia comes out of this war with some gains, the costs will be so high that it will take Russia at least a generation to recover, and even then as heavily dependent on China, similar to a giant North Korea, if the Europeans don’t allow Russia back into the fold. The Russian brain drain on top of Russia’s demographic crisis is just one example of how hard it will be for Russia to recover. Compound this will all the fully trained staff retiring (trained properly when the Soviet Union was still around) and Russia maybe slowly de-industrializing before our very eyes.

This is a golden opportunity for the west to destroy Russia to rebuild it as the Lebensraum the Germans always wanted; a process that had been going on slowly over hundreds of years (similar to how German immigrants moved to the US over the same period of time; Germans had already made up many of the elites of Eastern European cities for hundreds of year prior to even that time). It was going in this way pre-Bolshevik revolution, and could get back onto that track once they last vestiges of the Soviet era are removed. This is why the west is particularly giving no quarter to anyone that trades with Russia. This is about rebuilding Europe and in a way really winning the Cold War; a hundred plus year effort.

A Russia had is dependent on China is not in the western interest, so Russian regime change is what Biden let slip, after which Russia can be let into the western fold as envisioned under Yeltsin.











P.s. should Russia Collapse, China may have to race to send its military to take territory from Sakhalin Island all the way to the Urals and Central Asian Republics if it hopes to keep the west at bay and maintain the buffer Russia has been providing up to this point. Otherwise the west maybe on China’s northern borders.

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510274616824152066
> 
> The CIA may have prevented the overthrow of the Zelensky government and defeat of Russian forces with this piece of intel.
> 
> Its amazing how deep US intelligence had penetrated Russian forces.


Yes, I was thinking that Ukraine may have waited for an ambush in that airport for Russian paratroopers. Putin even detained some military leader who was blamed for excessive losses in early operation. Think US had spies in Russian forces who were sympathetic for Ukraine.

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## F-22Raptor

Wood said:


> Yes, I was thinking that Ukraine may have waited for an ambush in that airport for Russian paratroopers. Putin even detained some military leader who was blamed for excessive losses in early operation. Think US had spies in Russian forces who were sympathetic for Ukraine.



All those Russian helicopters and troops flying into that airport the first couple days of the war were headed into a slaughter.

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> All those Russian helicopters and troops flying into that airport the first couple days of the war were headed into a slaughter.


I can finally accept that some Russians were set up to fail


----------



## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510280318120570883

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## jhungary

Sean Penn Calls On Billionaires To Buy Fighter Jets For Ukraine


"One billionaire could end this war," tweeted Penn, who was in Ukraine when Russia invaded. It's "worth a think."




www.yahoo.com





Sean Penn Calls On Billionaires To Buy Fighter Jets For Ukraine​
Seems like Sean Penn want to Gofundme some F-15 for Ukraine.........


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509626754847031320
The scary thing is, the man was not joking....

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jamahir

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509974354557345795
> American Colonel calling for a roll back of VETO system in UNSC. As counterintuitive as it may seem, this may be the only way for western alliance to further their agenda in UN. 🤔



The UNSC veto didn't work in the Korea war, the Iraq invasion of 2003 and the Libyan and Syrian invasions of 2011. The three Western members of the UNSC did what they wanted ( with the exception for France in 2003 ). In 2009 Gaddafi called the UN Security Council as the Terrorist Council and rightly so. The UNSC should be disbanded because it has just served as NATO's rubber stamp for imperialism, genocide and war crimes. And yes, the United Nations was generally never united.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510283194192613385

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## Meengla

FuturePAF said:


> This is a golden opportunity for the west to destroy Russia to rebuild i*t as the Lebensraum the Germans always wanted.* It was going in this way pre-Bolshevik revolution, and could get back onto that track once they last vestiges of the Soviet era are removed. This is why the west is particularly giving no quarter to anyone that trades with Russia. This is about rebuilding Europe and in a way really winning the Cold War; a hundred plus year effort.
> 
> A Russia had is dependent on China is not in the western interest, so Russian regime change is what Biden let slip, after which Russia can be let into the western fold as envisioned under Yeltsin.



Yup. A Lebensraum! A vast land with relatively few people and full of resources!! And now a land with a sickly, cold, grey, ageing, and suffocating society. But why single out Germany? Napoleon also tried that. Hitler was not an aberration or alone. Antisemitism, racial superiority, perhaps even hatred of the Eastern Orthodox Christianity, as well as eying Russia's natural resources, were not limited to Germany. Hitler reflected a broader, perhaps subconscious, European mindset! Never forget how many Europeans willingly and actively collaborated with Hitler--that aspect of history has been being downplayed, but Jews still know them the best because they suffered the Christians for centuries. 

The Brits only challenged the Germans because the Germans were an immediate and big threat. Americans saw an opportunity to rise to the very top, while also making some money along the way and joined but later. But race, resources and religious prejudices were all too prevalent in the West in general then--as perhaps even now. 

BUT.... I still think this war was provoked and not needed. A post-Putin Russia would have fallen organically with Europe, especially from the west of the Urals. I blame the killing on the Neocons sitting in America always looking for some war to profit from.

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## 925boy

kingQamaR said:


> The problem is not that there is no money in Russia .....*it's just that the wrong people have it*.


you just described the US

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## gambit

jhungary said:


> That's not even his speech to begin with. That's a direct quote from the link he quoted......
> 
> To which I ask, where did it say the US and UK did not fulfil their duty to assure Ukrainian security?


Am willing to go out on a limb and say that at this point, Russia is essentially defeated. Ukraine have been the near perfect example/executor of "The People's War", meaning not just on the physical battlefields but also on fronts that we never really considered, such as economics and finance. It does not mean that we can stop sending Ukraine military aids, but now given how creative the Ukrainians have been with what we sent so far, particularly the anti-tank weapons, as long as they get ways to remove Russian armor from the fight, the Ukrainian Army seems to be able to take on the Russian Army on their own.


----------



## Wood

gambit said:


> Am willing to go out on a limb and say that at this point, Russia is essentially defeated. Ukraine have been the near perfect example/executor of "The People's War", meaning not just on the physical battlefields but also on fronts that we never really considered, such as economics and finance. It does not mean that we can stop sending Ukraine military aids, but now given how creative the Ukrainians have been with what we sent so far, particularly the anti-tank weapons, as long as they get ways to remove Russian armor from the fight, the Ukrainian Army seems to be able to take on the Russian Army on their own.


Russia is truly defeated in this war if they loose the land corridor between Crimea and Donbass along the Ukrainian coast line. But untless that happens, Putin's spin doctors will be able to convince their public that Russia won. Perception afterall is reality

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510285734896353282

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510286246609833986

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510287060996870156

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510288389530136581

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510292028105666560


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510286622855737359

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510286629038141444


----------



## chinasun

jhungary said:


> So you want to start WW3 because of Ukraine??
> 
> In modern politics, the separation between "you have to" and "you need to" is just how you see a line. Just because the West need to intervene, does not mean it have to, especially when there are multiple way to achieve the same goal.
> 
> As I said, there are no where in that memorandum saying the US and UK HAVE to guarantee Ukrainian security in a certain way. So, it is up to the United States and United Kingdom to determine what is the best way to secure Ukrainian Security.


relations with Russia, including a promise to Ukraine to join NATO, the European Union's foreign policy chief Josep Borrell said Friday.

“I am ready to admit that we made a number of mistakes and that we lost the possibility of Russia’s rapprochement with the West," he said in an interview aired on the TF1 television channel. "There are moments that we could do better, there are things that we proposed and then could not implement, such as, for example, the promise that Ukraine and Georgia will become part of NATO."








West made mistake in promising Ukraine NATO membership: Borrell


The West has made a number of mistakes in relations with Russia, including a promise to Ukraine to join NATO, the European Union's foreign policy...




www.google.com




Now that the United States is afraid of starting World War III, why did it promise Ukraine to join NATO? The best way for the United States to ensure the security of Ukraine is to make Ukraine unsafe.


----------



## Vergennes

Damn a real massacre.



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510284786002280451


----------



## Inception-06

Meengla said:


> I thought the Russians would have closely watched and learned lessons from the recent Armenia-Azerbaijan war and seen how drones and anti-tank missiles made the difference there.
> This war just confirms what I had thought for a long time: Russia is a paper tiger and even if they eventually prevail in Ukraine to make enough strategic gains, they used their poor soldiers as cannon fodders. So sad.


 Learning is a workout, which needs discipline and rational thinking, not given in Russia. Oppression never worked out !


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510282840667213833


Vergennes said:


> Damn a real massacre.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510284786002280451



Looks like artillery got them. Almost a platoon worth


----------



## vizier

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509974354557345795
> American Colonel calling for a roll back of VETO system in UNSC. As counterintuitive as it may seem, this may be the only way for western alliance to further their agenda in UN. 🤔


When a country attacks another removal of veto right would work for passing Un solutions more easily to dampen out the attacking party at least by economic measures. It would work for example in issues like Usa wont be able to veto measures passed against future conflicts regarding Israel and similar.

On the other side of the coin removal of veto right would give way for a dominant country(ex:Usa) to pour in money to create internal problems in some target country and use its ties or economic-military threats to gain majority in Un and make Un pass military intervention decisions against any country they want. Sort of like cheating by using economic hegemony to get majority votes and using ethnic-secterian divides in some target country to create problems to be solved as military opportunities by using Un as a tool after hiding behind Russia-Ukraine conflict to remove veto system completely. Veto wielding country numbers should increase for blocking future wars regarding countries internal matters as well as the economic measures should be inversely proportional to outside countries non-Un voted interferences to a targeted country's internal problems. veto should also exist for economic measures regarding internal issues as they build up the decisions can be used as an excuse for unilateral action by a dominant country bypassing Un.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510311091712233476

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510309726013345792

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510142695020322817
Freedom is never free. The people of Ukraine and its armed forces are showing the determination to fight heroically, despite all the impossibilities and, moreover, despite all the accusations. A nation rises from under the destroyed cities.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510311994330648580

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510309726013345792



You would think Russia's retreat would have been made in order but it's a total debacle.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510303451439407111

Ukrainian women getting in on the action

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510306706072420353


----------



## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> You would think Russia's retreat would have been made in order but it's a total debacle.




Frankly, Russian forces have been annihilated on the northern front.


----------



## dBSPL

Advisor to the Office of the President of Ukraine Mihaylo Podolyak stated that the Russian army has begun to retreat from most of regions, except for the south and east of Ukraine: He said "They will invade silently, establish an air defense system, reduce their losses and dictate their conditions."


----------



## vizier

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510311994330648580


As mentioned by Russia these troops would possibly be relocated to their Donbass region operations. Another option also has a slight possibility depending on the number of troops and Ukr defensive concentrations. That is to cut off some western borders of Ukraine with a blitz type of operation to stop the flow of arms to gain advantage in all areas if there is too little defense there. But this is unlikely considering the large western borders and retreating troops equipment logistical issues.


----------



## FuturePAF

Meengla said:


> Yup. A Lebensraum! A vast land with relatively few people and full of resources!! And now a land with a sickly, cold, grey, ageing, and suffocating society. But why single out Germany? Napoleon also tried that. Hitler was not an aberration or alone. Antisemitism, racial superiority, perhaps even hatred of the Eastern Orthodox Christianity, as well as eying Russia's natural resources, were not limited to Germany. Hitler reflected a broader, perhaps subconscious, European mindset! Never forget how many Europeans willingly and actively collaborated with Hitler--that aspect of history has been being downplayed, but Jews still know them the best because they suffered the Christians for centuries.
> 
> The Brits only challenged the Germans because the Germans were an immediate and big threat. Americans saw an opportunity to rise to the very top, while also making some money along the way and joined but later. But race, resources and religious prejudices were all too prevalent in the West in general then--as perhaps even now.
> 
> BUT.... I still think this war was provoked and not needed. A post-Putin Russia would have fallen organically with Europe, especially from the west of the Urals. I blame the killing on the Neocons sitting in America always looking for some war to profit from.


I specifically mentioned the Germans because they sent people over hundreds of years to create mini colonies inside Russia. There is a precedent. But you are correct, a lot of Western Europeans could populate Russia, especially if it were part of major investments to modernize Russian industries and the cost of living were lower for them, while they retained the benefits of EU citizenship.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510015312648888325




There was no proof in that video that anything was hit or destroyed, but I guess anything can be claimed for propaganda purposes.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510327067485024260

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510328525156646912


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510173898251382785




I don't see anyone being attacked there...just some military vehicles in flooded areas. That is all. To whom those military vehicles belong to is not so obvious from the video. It seems some are claiming anything without any proof.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510318774662180874


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

sammuel said:


> Wow , what pointless destruction. Why would someone want to do something like that ?
> 
> That was Mariupol , before Putin succumb to his ego trip :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~




How many times did your illegal, apartheid, and settler state of IsraHell destroy Gaza and other towns in Occupied Palestine? Your Neocon brothers and sisters destroyed Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya,and Syria, yet here you're surprised what happened in Mariupol. Give us a break!

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510310235747016719

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## dBSPL

*Ukraine: Russia accepted our peace plan draft excluding Crimea.


 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510329112459681793*


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510326157123764226


----------



## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I don't see anyone being attacked there...just some military vehicles in flooded areas. That is all. To whom those military vehicles belong to is not so obvious from the video. It seems some are claiming anything without any proof.



Those are clearly VDV vehicles,keep crying your tears are delicious.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Those are clearly VDV vehicles,keep crying your tears are delicious.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510325075861544961
Cry me a river!


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510326068166676488


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

MoD Russia, [4/2/2022 12:13 PM]
🇷🇺🇺🇦Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

*▫️Units of the Lugansk People's Republic are advancing against the positions of the Ukrainian 57th Infantry Brigade and blockading Borovskoe from the east and south. Up to 30 Ukrainian nationalists and 5 armoured vehicles were destroyed.

💥On April 2, high-precision air-based missiles near the railway Lozovaya and Pavlograd stations destroyed armoured vehicles, ammunition and fuel tanks sent to reinforce the Ukrainian troops in Donbass. 

▫️Mirgorod military airfield in Poltava Region has also been taken out of action and several Ukrainian combat helicopters and aircraft found in its camouflaged car parks, as well as fuel and aviation weapons depots have been destroyed.

❗️💥Iskander precision strike on the defence headquarters in Kharkov city on Thursday, March 31, confirmed the killing of more than 100 nationalists and mercenaries from Western countries.

✈️💥During the day, operational-tactical aviation hit 28 military assets of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Among them: 2 depots of missile and artillery weapons and ammunition, as well as 23 areas of concentration of Ukrainian weapons and military equipment.*

In total, 125 aircfaft and 88 helicopters, 381 unmanned aerial vehicles, 1,888 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 205 multiple launch rocket systems, 793 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,771 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing 
@mod_russia_en


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## dBSPL

@Hassan Al-Somal bro, the shadow of the army, which you defended with all your might like a Russian, was also in Karabakh.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510076786264133637

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510288925872599042

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## Hassan Al-Somal

dBSPL said:


> @Hassan Al-Somal bro, the shadow of the army, which you defended with all your might like a Russian, was also in Karabakh.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510076786264133637




I was with the Azerbaijanis in that war and am still with them. I hope they fully seize Karabagh.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510321634812514325

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510278075036143622

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## Wood

What could be the impact of Russia getting bogged down (in Ukraine) on other places like Syria? If Russia starts pulling mercenary forces from other fronts into Ukraine, then will that not be a problem for other allies of Russia in the following months?


Assad should be worried

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## Louseb

chinasun said:


> relations with Russia, including a promise to Ukraine to join NATO, the European Union's foreign policy chief Josep Borrell said Friday.
> 
> “I am ready to admit that we made a number of mistakes and that we lost the possibility of Russia’s rapprochement with the West," he said in an interview aired on the TF1 television channel. "There are moments that we could do better, there are things that we proposed and then could not implement, such as, for example, the promise that Ukraine and Georgia will become part of NATO."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> West made mistake in promising Ukraine NATO membership: Borrell
> 
> 
> The West has made a number of mistakes in relations with Russia, including a promise to Ukraine to join NATO, the European Union's foreign policy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now that the United States is afraid of starting World War III, why did it promise Ukraine to join NATO? The best way for the United States to ensure the security of Ukraine is to make Ukraine unsafe.


The United States is afraid of starting WW3? You can say that the USA would prefer and pursue peace at any cost. but if their own security and sovereignty is threatened, it is a different story.

The USA promised Ukraine that it can join NATO? False. Nobody in the western EU nor the USA wanted Ukraine in the NATO alliance but they are neither discouraging Ukraine to apply for membership. Only the new NATO members from Eastern Europe wanted Ukraine to be a part of NATO. Both the USA, Germany and France have repeatedly said that Ukraine is in the security interest of Russia, and not the security interest of USA or EU. The fact that Ukraine used to be part of the Soviet Union did not increase or change the security situation in Europe or the USA. It will also not change anything if Ukraine decides to be neutral, or reverts to Russia's sphere of influence.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

MoD Russia, [4/2/2022 3:20 AM]
🇷🇺🇺🇦Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

*◽️Units of the armed forces of the Donetsk People's Republic have captured most of Novobakhmutovka and are fighting retreating units of the Ukrainian 25th Separate Airborne Brigade. During the night, up to 40 Nationalists, 1 tank platoon and 2 motorised infantry platoons, as well as a mortar battery, were destroyed in this area.

💥This morning, high-precision long-range air-based and sea-based weapons destroyed gasoline and diesel fuel storages at the Kremenchuk oil refinery, from which Ukrainian troops in central and eastern parts of the country had been supplied. 

💥High-precision air-based missiles have disabled military airfields in Poltava and Dnepropetrovsk.

💥Russian air defence means have shot down 2 Ukrainian Mi-24 helicopters near Sumy and Urozhainoe. 24 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles have also been destroyed in the air.

✈️💥During the night, operational-tactical and missile troops hit 67 military assets of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Among them: 2 command posts, 2 depots of missile and artillery weapons and ammunition, 9 field artillery guns and mortars, as well as 54 areas of concentration of Ukrainian weapons and military equipment.*

📊In total, 124 aircfaft and 84 helicopters, 381 unmanned aerial vehicles, 1,882 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 203 multiple launch rocket systems, 786 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,764 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing
@mod_russia_en

MoD Russia, [4/2/2022 11:04 AM]
[ Photo ]
#MoD_art
@mod_russia_en


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510336175776665602

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510321847145046021

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510251637339824140


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510309994436210690

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510340288333627392

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510250597731160071

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510340117772316675

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510336501661458434

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510340733454196742


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510336175776665602


The Donbass theatre will be more difficult for Ukraine. The Russians will be defending their line there and the population may not be completely hostile to them as it was in the west


----------



## Apollon

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> How many times did your illegal, apartheid, and settler state of IsraHell destroy Gaza and other towns in Occupied Palestine? Your Neocon brothers and sisters destroyed Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya,and Syria, yet here you're surprised what happened in Mariupol. Give us a break!



We pay your food in somalia. Show some gratitude

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510339776049782787


----------



## lightning F57

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> How many times did your illegal, apartheid, and settler state of IsraHell destroy Gaza and other towns in Occupied Palestine? Your Neocon brothers and sisters destroyed Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya,and Syria, yet here you're surprised what happened in Mariupol. Give us a break!


I agree with the irony, however where ever the senseless destruction and aggression is one should not be afraid to call it out. One should keeper higher moral than the so called civilised.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510339776049782787


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510342186189131780

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Apollon

What is not talked much about...Russia has one of lowest birthrates in the world. Most families have only one or two childs. So effectively eavh dead russian soldier is a family line that ends forever. Crazy to think about that. And for nothing.

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## Ali_Baba

Russian vehicles line highways out of Kyiv in 'tank graveyards'


Ukraine has taken back the 'whole Kyiv region', the country's deputy defence minister Hanna Maliar said today. Maliar said: 'Irpin, Bucha, Gostomel and the whole Kyiv region were liberated from the invader.'




www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510306377360629765


----------



## F-22Raptor

Apollon said:


> What is not talked much about...Russia has one of lowest birthrates in the world. Most families have only one or two childs. So effectively eavh dead russian soldier is a family line that ends forever. Crazy to think about that. And for nothing.




I felt sorry for the Russian soldiers killed at the beginning. Now…..no. 

They know exactly what their doing and the war crimes are massive.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510301174305632256


----------



## lightning F57

On the face of things I'd say Putin had 2 main objectives, regime change in Kiev and securing a land route from Crimea to the east into Russia. His failed in the first, let's see how he fairs in the second. I think the battle in the south will be tougher for the Ukrainians.



F-22Raptor said:


> I felt sorry for the Russian soldiers killed at the beginning. Now…..no.
> 
> They know exactly what their doing and the war crimes are massive.


That is how most anti Iraq war supporters felt with American losses.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510273531224993792


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510258616959488000


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510238738412093440


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510270979876048898


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510243975545987075


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510346366123450372

The Russians are pathetic. Wow


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510270306631524356


----------



## sammuel

Apollon said:


> We pay your food in somalia. Show some gratitude



Americans paid with their lives to defend UN food and humanitarian aid to Somalia.









Unified Task Force - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510346975186763788

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510344730361671682

The Russians are committing crimes against humanity now


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Captured Ukrainian vehicle with a deceased soldier@



Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510213192760369153


----------



## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510346366123450372
> 
> The Russians are pathetic. Wow


These girls underwear are for Russian soldiers to wear them self. Pathetic indeed.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510213192760369153




At what point will you finally admit the Russians are committing crimes against humanity? Stop burying your head in sand

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## Apollon

sammuel said:


> Americans paid with their lives to defend UN food and humanitarian aid to Somalia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unified Task Force - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



I know. @Hassan Al-Somal can post stuff against us, because we send food. But its ok, he has no power anyways and can only watch Puzin going down

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510343433570897929

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> I felt sorry for the Russian soldiers killed at the beginning. Now…..no.
> 
> They know exactly what their doing and the war crimes are massive.



Russian soldiers are just a bunch of thugs in uniforms and to be honest I have no sympathy for them,the more tanks are destroyed,the better. The more coffins coming back the better.

Those who say it is putin's war is BS because majority of russians support putin and his "special operation",russians families need to feel the pain Ukrainians are actually going through. 

Russian casualties figures are BS because there are thousands of bodies they don't even bother to recover so much that Ukrainians have to bury them in mass graves.


----------



## coffee_cup

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510339776049782787



This is not looking good.

Lets really hope that this war ends soon. 100s of millions will suffer whereas few hundred will get dirty rich!

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510206662212263936


----------



## Foinikas

Danish Moazzam said:


> You should also post pictures of Tripoli, Haleb, Jerusalem, Basra, etc before the American madness took over.


Mashallah


----------



## Wergeland

FuturePAF said:


> Russia has been running on Soviet fumes for decades. Even in the late soviet period, their highly inefficient system created a force that looked powerful on paper but when it came to the Afghan war and then after the collapse, the Chechen wars, it only showed their limited economic means hamstrung them to attrition warfare. Even if Russia comes out of this war with some gains, the costs will be so high that it will take Russia at least a generation to recover, and even then as heavily dependent on China, similar to a giant North Korea, if the Europeans don’t allow Russia back into the fold. The Russian brain drain on top of Russia’s demographic crisis is just one example of how hard it will be for Russia to recover. Compound this will all the fully trained staff retiring (trained properly when the Soviet Union was still around) and Russia maybe slowly de-industrializing before our very eyes.
> 
> This is a golden opportunity for the west to destroy Russia to rebuild it as the Lebensraum the Germans always wanted; a process that had been going on slowly over hundreds of years (similar to how German immigrants moved to the US over the same period of time; Germans had already made up many of the elites of Eastern European cities for hundreds of year prior to even that time). It was going in this way pre-Bolshevik revolution, and could get back onto that track once they last vestiges of the Soviet era are removed. This is why the west is particularly giving no quarter to anyone that trades with Russia. This is about rebuilding Europe and in a way really winning the Cold War; a hundred plus year effort.
> 
> A Russia had is dependent on China is not in the western interest, so Russian regime change is what Biden let slip, after which Russia can be let into the western fold as envisioned under Yeltsin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.s. should Russia Collapse, China may have to race to send its military to take territory from Sakhalin Island all the way to the Urals and Central Asian Republics if it hopes to keep the west at bay and maintain the buffer Russia has been providing up to this point. Otherwise the west maybe on China’s northern borders.



Well if we go even further back in history, we find that Germanic tribes original home is actually in the Pontic Steppe. That is the area between Ukraine and Aral Sea.

Most inhabitants in todays ethnic German populated areas, Britain, France and Spain, was actually poplated by Celtic peoples. The Celts were wiped out by invading Germanic tribes and only Ireland remain as their last stronghold.

Going even further back most of Europe was populated by Afro Asiatic people from the middle east, and even further back there were neanderthals.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

coffee_cup said:


> This is not looking good.
> 
> Lets really hope that this war ends soon. 100s of millions will suffer whereas few hundred will get dirty rich!



In the immediate term, when this war is concluded, the fiat money will be dead. The West in general is a Zionist - Freemasonry plantation and control the world through this fraudulent money. Therefore, they'll not accept the loss of this fiat money, Swift, and all of the tools they used to use to destroy nations. They'll then resort to triggering a nuclear conflict. This indeed will be malhama or Armageddon. This war is expected to kill many people.

The Zionist and Freemasonries are waiting for a figure they call the redeemer. They call him the *Anointed One*. For Muslims and Orthodox Christians, he is the *Antichrist *or *Dajjal Al-Mesihi*. This is why they (Zionist and Freemasonry) are attacking one nation after another. They believe his arrival is imminent and he'll control the world from Jerusalem. Hence, their obsession with Russia should be understood in this context. 

For them (The Zionist and Freemasonries), this is a religious war. They'll do anything to take Russia down as It is the center of Orthodox Christianity. But they don't know we're indeed witnessing the end of their cruel empire. This end will end but it will take down 90% of the population with it.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510356659906002946

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## Get Ya Wig Split

EXCLUSIVE: US KC-46 tankers operating on NATO’s eastern front​Open source info showed the KC-46 refueling aircraft over the skies of Poland and Germany this week, and Air Force officials confirmed its support of "real-world, theater operational missions."​













EXCLUSIVE: US KC-46 tankers operating on NATO's eastern front - Breaking Defense


Open source info showed the KC-46 refueling aircraft over the skies of Poland and Germany this week, and Air Force officials confirmed its support of "real-world, theater operational missions."




breakingdefense.com


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510358466011009026
Crimes against humanity


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> But doesnt help Russia either. Just standing at side and tell warm words.
> 
> China sees how weak Russia is...why do trade when you can take it?


According to old Russian prophecies,China will eventually take Siberia and march over to the Urals. Now when that will happen...or if the Chinese will take Siberia and go westwards a few years later or right after that take it...
But some said that the Americans at first will help them,but when the Chinese will want to go Westwards,they will oppose them. But most if not all,said that millions of Russians and Chinese will die in that war.

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## Adir-M

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Since when IsraHellis helped anyone? You're now hiding behind America? We're getting closer to the expiry date of the illegal, apartheid, and settler state of IsraHell. The day that every rock and tree will speak, saying "Hey Muslim, here is a Zionist hiding behind me, come and get him", that day is getting near. You're planting the Al-Ghadghad tree around your settlements, because you know that tree will hide you. But boy when that prophesied Muslim army from Khorasan, Shaam, and Yemen reaches the Holy Land, they exactly know that tree and where to find you.
> 
> Russian actions will kill the fiat money - which the Zionist Freemasonry world - the empire of the Antichrist - uses to control the world. And after the fiat money is dead, there is going to be Armageddon (the nuclear war). When these 2 events take place, IsraHell will not have the Freemasonry world protecting it. And that is going to be the end day of IsraHell.


Did you forgot your medicines ?

Ukraine is worse then Afghanistan for the the Soviets.

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## Foinikas

F-22Raptor said:


> The looting is nothing compared to their other horrific war crimes. Apparently a group of Russians gang raped a 12 year old girl in Mauripol repeatedly then killed her in cold blood.


I've heard that during the 8 years of war in Donbass,some Azov battalion fighters were extremely cruel to women and girls, not just raping them,but from what I've heard there were cases of filling their vaginas with polyurethane.

Don't think that Ukrainians don't have criminals and scum in their units. There are scum in both sides.

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## Messerschmitt

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> In the immediate term, when this war is concluded, the fiat money will be dead. The West in general is a Zionist - Freemasonry plantation and control the world through this fraudulent money. Therefore, they'll not accept the loss of this fiat money, Swift, and all of the tools they used to use to destroy nations. They'll then resort to triggering a nuclear conflict. This indeed will be malhama or Armageddon. This war is expected to kill many people.
> 
> The Zionist and Freemasonries are waiting for a figure they call the redeemer. They call him the *Anointed One*. For Muslims and Orthodox Christians, he is the *Antichrist *or *Dajjal Al-Mesihi*. This is why they (Zionist and Freemasonry) are attacking one nation after another. They believe his arrival is imminent and he'll control the world from Jerusalem. Hence, their obsession with Russia should be understood in this context.
> 
> For them (The Zionist and Freemasonries), this is a religious war. They'll do anything to take Russia down as It is the center of Orthodox Christianity. But they don't know we're indeed witnessing the end of their cruel empire. This end will end but it will take down 90% of the population with it.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510360917669777411

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## dBSPL

3rd downed TB-2 confirmed with this image. It may have downed due to a malfunction, because still have the fuselage wing integrity. TB-2 has destroyed so many targets since the first day, but mighty Russia's social media seem very happy that they shot down a few TB-2s , 40 days after the war started.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510358982992580616


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## Foinikas

Messerschmitt said:


> View attachment 829815


Don't laugh,he didn't say something weird. You really think these warmongers are benevolent people who want the good of humanity?

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510328371636543492
We are approaching the ground of peace. We will witness very important developments that will shake the political order in the world.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510366392838766596


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## dBSPL

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510366392838766596


Russia does not have a good track record in this regard. Numerous mass graves have been found after Russian Wagner mercenaries withdrew from Tripoli. People were executed and they buried in mass pits. They also left bomb traps on dozens of houses and streets.

Russia must either get assurances that this issue will not be addressed, in the off-the-record part of the peace talks, or it must destroy all evidence as it retreat.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510368703078178822

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510192425289011202

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## PakFactor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510366392838766596



So after torture the fat lady shrunk to be a petite women? Lol. This is becoming a joke anyways carry on the war.


----------



## gambit

Apollon said:


> What is not talked much about...*Russia has one of lowest birthrates in the world*. Most families have only one or two childs. So effectively eavh dead russian soldier is a family line that ends forever. Crazy to think about that. And for nothing.


It is estimated there are 9-10 million more women than men. And the men have high smoking, alcohol, assorted substance abuse rates, and unemployment. Time for those Russian mail order brides.

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## bobo6661

PakFactor said:


> So after torture the fat lady shrunk to be a petite women? Lol. This is becoming a joke anyways. Carry on the war.


what you talking about she's half buried head is tilted how is she petite to you ?


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## mmr

gambit said:


> It is estimated there are 9-10 million more women than men. And the men have high smoking, alcohol, assorted substance abuse rates, and unemployment. Time for those Russian mail order brides.


watch 90 day fiance lol

most times us guys and russian women


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## Wood

gambit said:


> It is estimated there are 9-10 million more women than men. And the men have high smoking, alcohol, assorted substance abuse rates, and unemployment. Time for those Russian mail order brides.


No shipping of any sort possible under sanctions


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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510311994330648580



So, they may now have up to 6 BTGs which were left there more westward than Chornobyl, without a retreat route. It's up to 2000 troops.

I guess the reports of Russian "offensive" on Korosten was just blocked Russian troops actually trying to flee through P28 road bypassing Chornobyl, and P02 road

If that group of a 30+ vehicles fled, that should be at least 1-2 BTGs less.

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## dBSPL

The bitter and true face of war.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510376354310758409


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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510378482756464642

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510378502981312517


----------



## gambit

Wood said:


> Russia is truly defeated in this war if they loose the land corridor between Crimea and Donbass along the Ukrainian coast line. But untless that happens, Putin's spin doctors will be able to convince their public that Russia won. Perception afterall is reality


After this war, it will be difficult to deny NATO membership to Ukraine. Think about it. Never mind WW II. Who in modern time took on Russia, survived against global opinions and military odds, and actually began pushing back? Irrelevant if Ukraine may negotiate a peace with a condition of neutrality, everyone know that will be meaningless the second the ink dried on those signatures. Ukraine gave up nuclear security on a non-legal promise from Russia and got stabbed in the back, so why should anyone believe anything Russia will promise Ukraine from now on? Ukrainian Army combat experience against Russia will be valuable addition to NATO's ledger. Also, any criticism against NATO's existence is now worthless.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510384320636231680


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508908191337222148

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510329136014843909


----------



## Foinikas

gambit said:


> Who in modern time took on Russia, survived against global opinions and military odds, and actually began pushing back?


Uh yeah,against global opinions but with full support from the media and governments of USA,Canada,almost every country in Europe,Australia,South Korea,
Japan and many others in the Middle-East
and we're talking about a full propaganda machine support.
And who in modern time received tens of thousands of modern AT weapons, hundreds of Stinger missiles,rifles and machine-guns of all calibers,UAVs,UCAVs,
armored vehicles and information.

It would have been interesting to see how much they could have resisted without all that help.

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## Foinikas

gambit said:


> Also, any criticism against NATO's existence is now worthless.


Give me a break. Just seriously,you live in 1965 or something? Do you think Russians had the intention to mess with countries in Europe or anywhere else,other than the ones bordering them?
Seriously,you're like those reporters on TV who feed people fear of Russian invasions and Soviet war machine marching all the way to West Germany.
Russians had no intention to do anything.

I'm stressing again,that this war should not have happened. But man,stop pushing them all the time. You've been pushing them for years and years. First with the Georgians,then in Syria...fighting that proxy war against the Syrian government and Russia. Then with Euromaidan. You kept imposing sanctions on them for years. How do you expect them to react? They disagreed with your bombing of Serbia,they did nothing.
They disagreed with your invasion of Iraq,
they did nothing. They disagreed with you destroying Libya and they did nothing. 
Well what do you expect them to do? 
Back down forever? Until NATO reaches the Kremlin?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510368772229632005

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510394566268141572

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510392314304335881

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## FuturePAF

Wergeland said:


> Well if we go even further back in history, we find that Germanic tribes original home is actually in the Pontic Steppe. That is the area between Ukraine and Aral Sea.
> 
> Most inhabitants in todays ethnic German populated areas, Britain, France and Spain, was actually poplated by Celtic peoples. The Celts were wiped out by invading Germanic tribes and only Ireland remain as their last stronghold.
> 
> Going even further back most of Europe was populated by Afro Asiatic people from the middle east, and even further back there were neanderthals.


Sure, but there maybe people alive today (or at least their direct descendants) that were expelled by Stalin from the Volga and other parts of Russia, and that living memory may still exist, similar to how Jewish people from places like Yemen and Morocco may still have a cultural memory of those places, despite having left 70 years ago.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510388594996924418

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## PakFactor

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508908191337222148
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510329136014843909



@Wood you might remember me saying few pages back that the Western Media onslaught was stupid to begin with. They amplified Russophobia to the max and worse than Cold War days, rather than helping calm nerves. 

Media is good but to much can be deter mental at times.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510383141118255106


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510368608031019009


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510339931071209477


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## Paul2

gambit said:


> It is estimated there are 9-10 million more women than men. And the men have high smoking, alcohol, assorted substance abuse rates, and unemployment. Time for those Russian mail order brides.



Too many Russian chicken in Beijing already


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510371759723274248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510379027009318912


----------



## gambit

Foinikas said:


> Give me a break. Just seriously,you live in 1965 or something? Do you think Russians had the intention to mess with countries in Europe or anywhere else,other than the ones bordering them?
> Seriously,you're like those reporters on TV who feed people fear of Russian invasions and Soviet war machine marching all the way to West Germany.
> Russians had no intention to do anything.
> 
> I'm stressing again,that this war should not have happened. But man,stop pushing them all the time. You've been pushing them for years and years. First with the Georgians,then in Syria...fighting that proxy war against the Syrian government and Russia. Then with Euromaidan. You kept imposing sanctions on them for years. How do you expect them to react? They disagreed with your bombing of Serbia,they did nothing.
> They disagreed with your invasion of Iraq,
> they did nothing. They disagreed with you destroying Libya and they did nothing.
> Well what do you expect them to do?
> Back down forever? Until NATO reaches the Kremlin?


Do not tell me that. Tell the millions living near Russia and see how successful your message.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510368608031019009


----------



## The SC

The fiercest battles against the remnants of the Azov battalion in Mariupol, Ukraine


----------



## JX-1

Surprisingly, the Russians have even managed to be pushed back.


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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510117089306152966
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510117186731487236
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510117337411854338
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510117623673016322
> 
> Russian forces have been defeated on the Kyiv/Chernihiv and Sumy fronts



I have no idea why they went to Sumy in the first place, instead of using these forces on Kharkiv, while fully knowing that Sumy will not be able to relieve Kharkiv.

That small town, and a few garrisons there ate like a whole army division.


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## Wood

Seems like we can expect some good news


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1992268427642161





🇷🇺Russian paratroopers who demonstrated courage and heroism during the special military operation to defend the Donetsk and Lugansk people's republics were presented with state awards.

▫️The awarding ceremony was held in Kiev region at a temporary deployment point of an Airborne Troops unit.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine
@mod_russia_en

MoD Russia, [4/2/2022 11:04 AM]


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=5801906976491406


----------



## jhungary

chinasun said:


> relations with Russia, including a promise to Ukraine to join NATO, the European Union's foreign policy chief Josep Borrell said Friday.
> 
> “I am ready to admit that we made a number of mistakes and that we lost the possibility of Russia’s rapprochement with the West," he said in an interview aired on the TF1 television channel. "There are moments that we could do better, there are things that we proposed and then could not implement, such as, for example, the promise that Ukraine and Georgia will become part of NATO."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> West made mistake in promising Ukraine NATO membership: Borrell
> 
> 
> The West has made a number of mistakes in relations with Russia, including a promise to Ukraine to join NATO, the European Union's foreign policy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now that the United States is afraid of starting World War III, why did it promise Ukraine to join NATO? The best way for the United States to ensure the security of Ukraine is to make Ukraine unsafe.


First of all, US endorsing NATO membership does not mean anything, NATO is not a referral organisation in the sense you will get it if you are referred, to join NATO, you will need to have all 30 member agree on it, which make US "endorsement" pointless. US president can endorse someone to apply for NATO membership (Which is that someone's right if that someone is a head of state, not Russia) that does not mean that someone will get NATO membership.

Second of all, NATO membership were never on the table for Ukraine. The history of Ukrainian NATO membership is basically a non-starter. They were rejected twice, in 2008 and in 2014/2015 (by Joe Biden himself acting as VP.) There are 3 stages for applying NATO membership is* Individual Membership Plan*, then *Intensified Dialogue with NATO* and finally *Membership Action Plan*.

Ukraine has none of these 3 stages done, and was not considered as "Aspirant Member" by NATO. On the contrary, Kosovo and Georgia are in different stages of NATO membership application, both were considered as "Aspirant Member" of NATO.

In fact, Russia have used the same threat on Georgia and this is probably more realistic than in Ukraine, because Georgia are simply waiting on their MAP, the last stage.









Russia says Georgia's entry to NATO could lead to war


From RIA Novosti: Russia’s foreign minister has warned of a repetition of its 2008 war with Georgia if the South Caucasus state joins NATO.




www.atlanticcouncil.org





On the other hand, I can almost certain that had NATO accepted Ukraine NATO membership in 2008 or 2014, there will not be a war now.

Beside, this is not about 1994 Budapest Memorandum.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

MoD Russia, [4/2/2022 2:24 AM]





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=505126414559599





🇷🇺🚛 Russian servicemen delivered humanitarian aid to Izyum, Kharkov region, for the first time

◽️ Accompanied by the Military Police of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, humanitarian aid of over 45 tonnes was delivered to residents of the city and its surroundings who had been waiting for this relief aid for several days, being without communication, light, drinking water and basic necessities.

◽️ As a result of incessant shelling by the Ukrainian armed forces and nationalist battalions, Izyum residents and their small children are forced to hide in basements, bomb shelters and makeshift hiding places. For this reason, they are afraid to go out to buy food.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #HumanitarianAid
@mod_russia


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## CAPRICORN-88

Leader of neo-nazi Azov Battalion reportedly killed in Ukraine​March 28, 2022 8:50 AM CDT BY STEVE SWEENEY AND JOHN WOJCIK

Azov Battalion leader Artyom Murakhovsky reportedly killed. Courtesy Morning Star.

Neo-Nazi forces from the notorious Azov Battalion were said to have suffered a heavy defeat in Ukraine on Thursday as fierce fighting continues.
The Donetsk People’s Republic militia claimed to have killed one of the fascist unit’s leaders, Artyom Murakhovsky, during a battle in the city of Avdiivka in Ukraine’s eastern Donbass region.
The battalion was also said to have suffered its biggest losses since the Russian invasion began on February 24 in the besieged Black Sea port city of Mariupol.
The Azov Battalion has its headquarters in the city, which it has been defending from Russian troops.




_Members of the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion hold a torchlit rally in Kiev. | Efrem Lukatsky / AP_
Prior to the war, the neo-nazi regiment had been training locals in Mariupol as part of a citizen’s militia, exercises which received widespread coverage in mainstream Western media.
Most, however, failed to explain that the soldiers photographed showing “babushkas” how to use combat rifles were in fact fascists responsible for horrific crimes in the Donbass region.
Russian President Vladimir Putin has described Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as a “special operation” aimed at the denazification and demilitarisation of Ukraine.
Western countries have poured scorn on Mr. Putin’s claims, with governments and media organizations, including the BBC in Europe, and almost all major media in the U.S., downplaying the influence of fascist forces in Ukraine.
Discussion regarding the influence of the far right there is often dismissed as “pro-Putin propaganda.”





Azov Battalion leader Artyom Murakhovsky reportedly killed. Courtesy Morning Star.

Neo-Nazi forces from the notorious Azov Battalion were said to have suffered a heavy defeat in Ukraine on Thursday as fierce fighting continues.
The Donetsk People’s Republic militia claimed to have killed one of the fascist unit’s leaders, Artyom Murakhovsky, during a battle in the city of Avdiivka in Ukraine’s eastern Donbass region.
The battalion was also said to have suffered its biggest losses since the Russian invasion began on February 24 in the besieged Black Sea port city of Mariupol.
The Azov Battalion has its headquarters in the city, which it has been defending from Russian troops.



_Members of the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion hold a torchlit rally in Kiev. | Efrem Lukatsky / AP_
Prior to the war, the neo-nazi regiment had been training locals in Mariupol as part of a citizen’s militia, exercises which received widespread coverage in mainstream Western media.
Most, however, failed to explain that the soldiers photographed showing “babushkas” how to use combat rifles were in fact fascists responsible for horrific crimes in the Donbass region.
Russian President Vladimir Putin has described Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as a “special operation” aimed at the denazification and demilitarisation of Ukraine.
Western countries have poured scorn on Mr. Putin’s claims, with governments and media organizations, including the BBC in Europe, and almost all major media in the U.S., downplaying the influence of fascist forces in Ukraine.
Discussion regarding the influence of the far right there is often dismissed as “pro-Putin propaganda.”
The Azov Battalion, which was integrated into the Ukrainian Armed Forces in 2014 following the Maidan coup, has links to far-right organizations abroad, including in Germany, which has seen a resurgence in neo-nazi activity, with fascists having infiltrated the country’s police and armed forces.
The Azov Battalion-led forces and other right-wing extremists in the Ukrainian army, acting in the name of the Ukraine government, are so numerous in the East that they were able to kill 15,000 Russian-speaking civilians there since 2014. The bloody war Ukrainians everywhere in the country are experiencing now has actually gone on for a long time with death and destruction coming at the hands not of Russia, but of right-wing Ukrainians. Russians, incredulous when they heard reports that Putin had invaded Ukraine, would say things like “We don’t believe it. It’s only Ukrainians killing Ukrainians.”



_Members of Ukraine’s ‘Territorial Defense Forces,’ armed groups formed out of right-wing ‘volunteers,’ train close to Kiev on Saturday, Feb. 5, 2022. Ukrainian President Zelensky is encouraging fascist groups to arm themselves more heavily. | Efrem Lukatsky / AP_
The West, led by the United States working with Ukrainian allies, has given power to the extreme right in Ukraine, just as they gave power to the right-wing fundamentalists in Afghanistan in the last century. At best, they hoped that by working with the neo-fascists to stage the 2014 coup in Kiev and by allowing them to kill off 15,000 in the east they would be able to weaken opposition to their rule and consolidate their control of the entire country, making it easier to bring Ukraine into the European Union, which, as it does with its poorer members such as Portugal and Greece, would thoroughly exploit them to the benefit of wealthy capitalists, particularly those In Germany.
The problem with trying to make opportunistic use of fascists to gain economic control over a country is that one often creates Frankenstein monsters.

Neo-Nazi forces from the notorious Azov Battalion were said to have suffered a heavy defeat in Ukraine on Thursday as fierce fighting continues.

The Donetsk People’s Republic militia claimed to have killed one of the fascist unit’s leaders, Artyom Murakhovsky, during a battle in the city of Avdiivka in Ukraine’s eastern Donbass region.
The battalion was also said to have suffered its biggest losses since the Russian invasion began on February 24 in the besieged Black Sea port city of Mariupol.
The Azov Battalion has its headquarters in the city, which it has been defending from Russian troops.



_Members of the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion hold a torchlit rally in Kiev. | Efrem Lukatsky / AP_
Prior to the war, the neo-nazi regiment had been training locals in Mariupol as part of a citizen’s militia, exercises which received widespread coverage in mainstream Western media.
Most, however, failed to explain that the soldiers photographed showing “babushkas” how to use combat rifles were in fact fascists responsible for horrific crimes in the Donbass region.
Russian President Vladimir Putin has described Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as a “special operation” aimed at the denazification and demilitarisation of Ukraine.
Western countries have poured scorn on Mr. Putin’s claims, with governments and media organizations, including the BBC in Europe, and almost all major media in the U.S., downplaying the influence of fascist forces in Ukraine.
Discussion regarding the influence of the far right there is often dismissed as “pro-Putin propaganda.”
The Azov Battalion, which was integrated into the Ukrainian Armed Forces in 2014 following the Maidan coup, has links to far-right organizations abroad, including in Germany, which has seen a resurgence in neo-nazi activity, with fascists having infiltrated the country’s police and armed forces.
The Azov Battalion-led forces and other right-wing extremists in the Ukrainian army, acting in the name of the Ukraine government, are so numerous in the East that they were able to kill 15,000 Russian-speaking civilians there since 2014. The bloody war Ukrainians everywhere in the country are experiencing now has actually gone on for a long time with death and destruction coming at the hands not of Russia, but of right-wing Ukrainians. Russians, incredulous when they heard reports that Putin had invaded Ukraine, would say things like “We don’t believe it. It’s only Ukrainians killing Ukrainians.”



_Members of Ukraine’s ‘Territorial Defense Forces,’ armed groups formed out of right-wing ‘volunteers,’ train close to Kiev on Saturday, Feb. 5, 2022. Ukrainian President Zelensky is encouraging fascist groups to arm themselves more heavily. | Efrem Lukatsky / AP_
The West, led by the United States working with Ukrainian allies, has given power to the extreme right in Ukraine, just as they gave power to the right-wing fundamentalists in Afghanistan in the last century. At best, they hoped that by working with the neo-fascists to stage the 2014 coup in Kiev and by allowing them to kill off 15,000 in the east they would be able to weaken opposition to their rule and consolidate their control of the entire country, making it easier to bring Ukraine into the European Union, which, as it does with its poorer members such as Portugal and Greece, would thoroughly exploit them to the benefit of wealthy capitalists, particularly those In Germany.
The problem with trying to make opportunistic use of fascists to gain economic control over a country is that one often creates Frankenstein monsters.



_A youngster points a weapon during a basic combat training for civilians, organized by the Special Forces Unit Azov, of Ukraine’s National Guard, in Mariupol, Donetsk region, eastern Ukraine, Feb. 13, 2022. Vadim Ghirda|AP_
Adding to this mess created by the U.S. capitalists working with their capitalist allies in Ukraine is the additional mess created by the capitalists in control of Russia when they decided to invade. The Russian action is being used by the extreme right to embolden both their own Ukrainian Nazis and ones coming in from overseas to help them.
According to the latest UN figures 1,081 civilians have been confirmed killed since the Russian invasion began nearly four weeks ago, although it said the death toll is much higher.
A mass grave was found in Mariupol, with the head of the UN human rights monitoring mission in Ukraine Matilda Bogner saying a team was carrying out assessments.
“One mass grave we’ve been able to get satellite information on, and we estimate that one of those graves holds about 200 people,” she said.
*The UN said it was also investigating alleged indiscriminate shelling in Donetsk by the Ukrainian Armed Forces and the beating of those perceived to be pro-Russian by the police.*


----------



## jhungary

gambit said:


> Am willing to go out on a limb and say that at this point, Russia is essentially defeated. Ukraine have been the near perfect example/executor of "The People's War", meaning not just on the physical battlefields but also on fronts that we never really considered, such as economics and finance. It does not mean that we can stop sending Ukraine military aids, but now given how creative the Ukrainians have been with what we sent so far, particularly the anti-tank weapons, as long as they get ways to remove Russian armor from the fight, the Ukrainian Army seems to be able to take on the Russian Army on their own.


At the early onset of the war, I have had a discussion with @Oldman1 about transferring tanks (Think I was talking about M60E3 Patton Egypt and Israel used) and that is what they needed for any counter offensive push, that's why now country like Germany and Poland are considering to transfer their armor to Ukraine. If I can even foresee a Counter Offensive back then (and I am by no mean a good battlefield reader) then that mean Russia being able to win this war is a foregone conclusion.

Russia is big, but then so is Ukraine, and from the early on set, we know this operation is a surgical strike or nothing type of operation, you simply don't put enough troop around the border to take on an entire country, And what military analyst are waiting on is whether or not the Russian have a plan B if this plan failed. 

Another problem is whether or not Russia can hold what they have occupied, there are fierce fighting in Izyum even as Russia captured it on April 1. Defensive operation is statistic which grind down the mobility of the invasion force, it both sap their momentum and power to conduct further military operation. And as we are seeing Russian advance on Kyiv is being mopped up right now, that will undoubtedly release some combat power Ukraine left in reserved to do something else, also the formation of a fully trained TDF is near as we are into 5th weeks of war (It usually take 6-9 weeks) which mean there will be a serious influx of manpower on Ukrainian military, that is why the west is mulling sending Military vehicle to Ukraine right now, they have manpower to conduct a counter offensive. They just need tactical equipment.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510210221444055043


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## CAPRICORN-88

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510210221444055043



And all these supposedly are stolen and originated from a warzone that is still raging.

 very creative and imaginative.

But offers very little credence and hard to believe. Especially to those with a bit of commonsense.

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## jhungary

Wood said:


> The Donbass theatre will be more difficult for Ukraine. The Russians will be defending their line there and the population may not be completely hostile to them as it was in the west


Russia want to control the entire donbas, they will not be in defensive, that's why the Russian is taking Izyum and try to take Mariupol. Doing so will flank both side of the Donbas defender.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510357335453040644


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## Wood

jhungary said:


> Russia want to control the entire donbas, they will not be in defensive, that's why the Russian is taking Izyum and try to take Mariupol. Doing so will flank both side of the Donbas defender.


The Ukrainian side has said that Russians have verbally agreed to peace terms and that Zelenskyy and Putin may soon meet. Then I wonder what will happen 😏


----------



## TruthHurtz

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> And all these supposedly are stolen and originated from a warzone that is still raging.
> 
> very creative and imaginative.
> 
> But offers very little credence and hard to believe. Especially to those with a bit of commonsense.



Weird, Russians have time to steal household items and take them back to sell in Belarus but Ukros can't find the time to verify 95% of their shootdown claims (because it's a warzone) in a country they mostly control, still waiting on those two IL-76s from last month btw,



Wood said:


> The Ukrainian side has said that Russians have verbally agreed to peace terms and that Zelenskyy and Putin may soon meet. Then I wonder what will happen 😏



Well that's how you know it's a lie.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509940121046556675
Seems like some people in PDF may also be watching Russian state TV

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## jhungary

Foinikas said:


> Uh yeah,against global opinions but with full support from the media and governments of USA,Canada,almost every country in Europe,Australia,South Korea,
> Japan and many others in the Middle-East
> and we're talking about a full propaganda machine support.
> And who in modern time received tens of thousands of modern AT weapons, hundreds of Stinger missiles,rifles and machine-guns of all calibers,UAVs,UCAVs,
> armored vehicles and information.
> 
> It would have been interesting to see how much they could have resisted without all that help.


Those support up until now are defensive support. Which is what the west would do because Ukraine is under attack, they are not invading Russia. That give them near to zero offensive capability. 

There are a line in the sand, and whether or not you agree to, Russian has crossed that line, and as I said to you before, you have to be extremely naive to think Ukraine will ever be "Friendly" to Russia.

I can only see 1 way this will ends, Ukraine will remain in some shape or form, maybe they will lose Crimea or Donbas or both, or maybe not, but afterward, Ukraine is probably going to be armed to t he teeth and probably more than the level of Israel have. This is how this is going to go. 

Russia on the other hand, will be a non-factor, once Europe decouple their energy need from Russia, which is going to take 1 to 3 years from, they would be like Venezuela or North Korea with oil.


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## CAPRICORN-88

TruthHurtz said:


> Weird, Russians have time to steal household items and take them back to sell in Belarus but Ukros can't find the time to verify 95% of their shootdown claims (because it's a warzone) in a country they mostly control, still waiting on those two IL-76s from last month btw,
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's how you know it's a lie.


When news emerged that a top AZOV leader was killed in Mariupol, I for one is still skeptical in view if the propaganda war as there were no confirmation.

Then it was reported that 3 Mi-8 Ukrainian Arrmy that were used to help these AZOV fighters trapped in the steelwork in Mariupol to escape were shot down and Artyom Murakhovsky was onboard one of them.

Looks like it is true. But who knows, he may reappeared.


----------



## jhungary

Wood said:


> The Ukrainian side has said that Russians have verbally agreed to peace terms and that Zelenskyy and Putin may soon meet. Then I wonder what will happen 😏


nothing will happen.

There are still not really a point to talk, for a peace talk to work, you need to have 1 side that clearly have some advantage and the other side is desperate. I don't see both side have any advantage to talk.

On the other hand, Kyiv front is almost completely rout, couple with the influx of Territorial Defence Force, I can foresee a more general push on Ukraine part. If I was the Ukrainian, I will go after the southern route along Zaporizhzhia and Kherson, first, that is the closest, which mean less logistic issue, second doing so will also free up some element that are currently defending Odesa

We will see how the next phase of counter offensive goes, because if Russian fall back, they would want to talk, and if Ukrainian cannot make head way or stuck in the counter offensive, they would want to talk.

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## Type59

Apollon said:


> What is not talked much about...Russia has one of lowest birthrates in the world. Most families have only one or two childs. So effectively eavh dead russian soldier is a family line that ends forever. Crazy to think about that. And for nothing.





F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510258616959488000



French women who had relationship with German troops had their head shaved. Not a nazi habit, just a way to humiliate women.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510370894258053130

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510340350803652612
Dead occupiers send greetings!




Spoiler: Very Graphic



https://twitter.com/OleksandrKolym/status/1510131709492273153


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## The SC

Spoiler: Graphic



https://twitter.com/kaszubowski_pl/status/1510165571379281920


----------



## sammuel

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510360917669777411



This is what one person commented in twitter :

@biblespine
Replying to
@Caucasuswar

" I don’t know about you guys, but onions always cheer me up after the loss of a family member. "

~

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## The SC

No Corner of U.S. Stock Market Left Untouched by Ukraine War​
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...stock-market-left-untouched-by-war-in-ukraine


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510343433570897929

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510290785064923137


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510162117424558083

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510366871383687168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510424511241662464


----------



## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> In the immediate term, when this war is concluded, the fiat money will be dead. The West in general is a Zionist - Freemasonry plantation and control the world through this fraudulent money. Therefore, they'll not accept the loss of this fiat money, Swift, and all of the tools they used to use to destroy nations. They'll then resort to triggering a nuclear conflict. This indeed will be malhama or Armageddon. This war is expected to kill many people.
> 
> The Zionist and Freemasonries are waiting for a figure they call the redeemer. They call him the *Anointed One*. For Muslims and Orthodox Christians, he is the *Antichrist *or *Dajjal Al-Mesihi*. This is why they (Zionist and Freemasonry) are attacking one nation after another. They believe his arrival is imminent and he'll control the world from Jerusalem. Hence, their obsession with Russia should be understood in this context.
> 
> For them (The Zionist and Freemasonries), this is a religious war. They'll do anything to take Russia down as It is the center of Orthodox Christianity. But they don't know we're indeed witnessing the end of their cruel empire. This end will end but it will take down 90% of the population with it.



Christians believe that Jesus Christ would return , ( so do Muslims in a some what different way ) , Jewish people believe the the Messiah would be a descendant of King David .

Do not know where you picked up this twisted version of religion , that is clearly meant only to spread hate , which is not the purpose of any of the the three monotectic religions.

" Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve. "

( 2.62 )

P.s

Stop derailing this thread with your nonsense.




Hassan Al-Somal said:


> EU is nothing but a parasitical entity. I hope and pray Vladimir Putin will nuke you.



What sort of person would write something like this ?

Is this what you dedicate your prays for ?

What happen to " let my my family be healthy " , " Let there be peace in the world " ? You should really do Shura and consult someone about your "prayer's ". 

Do not thinks God would appreciate such sick " prayers "

~

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## The SC

Spoiler: Graphic



https://twitter.com/defensesentinel/status/1510429110908366854





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510409230934700034

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510436457743364100


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510375300714143747

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510375303989846018

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510375306099630081

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510375308519690242

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510375310537146373


----------



## SaadH

Apollon said:


> What is not talked much about...Russia has one of lowest birthrates in the world. Most families have only one or two childs. So effectively eavh dead russian soldier is a family line that ends forever. Crazy to think about that. And for nothing.


That's a problem that can be easily fixed by opening up immigration.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510343433570897929



The conclusion that we can make is the existing tanks within the Ukrainian armed forces have being depleted by relentless Russian air and ground attacks, and the only way to replenish it by US and others send more tanks. 




The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510290785064923137


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510344076838715399

Russian society is completely backward. The cruelty we’re seeing in Ukraine is unreal. The Nazis would be proud.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510304542222876673


----------



## SaadH

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510344076838715399
> 
> Russian society is completely backward. The cruelty we’re seeing in Ukraine is unreal. The Nazis would be proud.


Actually US occupation forces in Iraq and Afghanistan would be prouder

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## -=virus=-

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510344076838715399
> 
> Russian society is completely backward. The cruelty we’re seeing in Ukraine is unreal. The Nazis would be proud.


That's what war is. 

You guys really don't have a leg to stand on when saying stuff like that, though. 

Good luck with your demented corpse of a commander in chief.

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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The conclusion that we can make is the existing tanks within the Ukrainian armed forces have being depleted by relentless Russian air and ground attacks, and the only way to replenish it by US and others send more tanks.


Or they are trying to form more Mobile Brigade for counter attacks.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510373862130733065

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510351563021238275


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510469574092902404


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=461720842400599

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509819513239482369


----------



## BHAN85

Viet said:


> Putin inner circle is few men, most are comrades from KGB, military and security. They are not politicians, not strategists, they are extremists.
> 
> It’s not in the days of USSR, with politburo and central commission.


I think the opposite.

Politicians are the extremists, just like EU burocrats: fanatics, arrogants and extremist people, like USSR politburo.

See Borrell and von der Leyen speeches, that's a extremist, that's arrogant person.

Secret services people are cold blood rational people. See Putin speechees, that's a cold blood rational person.


----------



## F-22Raptor

SaadH said:


> Actually US occupation forces in Iraq and Afghanistan would be prouder





-=virus=- said:


> That's what war is.
> 
> You guys really don't have a leg to stand on when saying stuff like that, though.
> 
> Good luck with your demented corpse of a commander in chief.



We in the US and Western world want no part of Russian backwardness, cruelty, thievery, and corruption.

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## beijingwalker

Nato states can only circle around and make noises, no one dares to take on Russia head on

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510413433438621696


----------



## TheUsualSuspect

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> And all these supposedly are stolen and originated from a warzone that is still raging.
> 
> very creative and imaginative.
> 
> But offers very little credence and hard to believe. Especially to those with a bit of commonsense.



Yup. When the Russians take a break from getting their “columns” annihilated left and right by zelenidas ’ Spartans, the proof of which that we see in the constant recycled propaganda - oh I mean “verified” tweets that are posted by “volunteer😉” lovers of the free world moe, curly, Larry and couple other sidekicks, doing 15 hour a day shifts —— they, the evil Russians focus on bigger and better things - like stealing Ukrainian dishwashers, rugs and bicycles, protecting them with their lives like they are Victoria Nuland’s mobile biolabs and transporting all the way back to Belarus and Russia right through the aforementioned areas of “columns annihilation” under the rain of thousands of Javelin, Nlaws, Panzerfausts. 🤔

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> I think the opposite.
> 
> Politicians are the extremists, just like EU burocrats: fanatics, arrogants and extremist people, like USSR politburo.
> 
> See Borrell and von der Leyen speeches, that's a extremist, that's arrogant person.
> 
> Secret services people are cold blood rational people. See Putin speechees, that's a cold blood rational person.


Chruschtschow lost support and was overthrown in politburo. Such event will never happen in the Kremlin. Putin has no politburo. He himself is the politburo.

Von der leyen is elected politician she will go out of office.


----------



## beijingwalker

No batallion or above scale engagements were reported in Ukraine war so far, a very strange "war", Russian and Ukrainian keep their battles with company scale or below.


----------



## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> At the early onset of the war, I have had a discussion with @Oldman1 about transferring tanks (Think I was talking about M60E3 Patton Egypt and Israel used) and that is what they needed for any counter offensive push, that's why now country like Germany and Poland are considering to transfer their armor to Ukraine. If I can even foresee a Counter Offensive back then (and I am by no mean a good battlefield reader) then that mean Russia being able to win this war is a foregone conclusion.
> 
> Russia is big, but then so is Ukraine, and from the early on set, we know this operation is a surgical strike or nothing type of operation, you simply don't put enough troop around the border to take on an entire country, And what military analyst are waiting on is whether or not the Russian have a plan B if this plan failed.
> 
> Another problem is whether or not Russia can hold what they have occupied, there are fierce fighting in Izyum even as Russia captured it on April 1. Defensive operation is statistic which grind down the mobility of the invasion force, it both sap their momentum and power to conduct further military operation. And as we are seeing Russian advance on Kyiv is being mopped up right now, that will undoubtedly release some combat power Ukraine left in reserved to do something else, also the formation of a fully trained TDF is near as we are into 5th weeks of war (It usually take 6-9 weeks) which mean there will be a serious influx of manpower on Ukrainian military, that is why the west is mulling sending Military vehicle to Ukraine right now, they have manpower to conduct a counter offensive. They just need tactical equipment.


T-72s and other vehicles that Ukrainians are familiar with was the best choice over the M60s we talked about and they need it now. Still think they need to be provided with MiGs and helos as well to help counter in the air as well as provide counter offensive. This would help them significantly in the long run in this war. The Russians are killing men of military age left and right as well as raping and killing women and destroying evidence. Not to mention kidnapping and removing the population in some parts of the region especially the Donbas region. The M60s are like in U.S. only right? I mean we can give the M60s to Ukraine in post war if the U.S. can't guarantee Ukraine's security, at least give them weapons to deter or deal with any future invasion by Russia which most likely will happen depending on the peace talks. The Ukrainians forces will pretty much be their own security guarantee for sure. Or the other option is having a Rapid Reaction Force by the countries that are willing to send forces in to help Ukraine, separate from involvement of NATO. Poland and some countries that were willing to send in peacekeepers, but that's more of during small conflicts not a full blown war so don't know if they are willing to send in forces during an future invasion.


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## dBSPL

Ukrainian negotiator Arakhamia: "The date and place of the meeting between Zelensky and Putin is not yet known. It will most likely be in Istanbul or Ankara."

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## F-22Raptor

beijingwalker said:


> Nato states can only circle around and make noises, no one dares to take on Russia head on
> 
> View attachment 829949




The Russians are literally getting slaughtered by NATO weapons.

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## Oldman1

beijingwalker said:


> No batallion or above scale engagements were reported in Ukraine war so far, a very strange "war", Russian and Ukrainian keep their battles with company scale or below.


You don't want to send in a large force that will get wiped out in one go, and its hard to manage and coordinate a large force especially by the Russians.


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## Viet

beijingwalker said:


> Nato states can only circle around and make noises, no one dares to take on Russia head on
> 
> View attachment 829949


You ask why Lithuania doesn’t attack russia? You are right Lithuanians are coward.

But hey they love Taiwan.

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## Oldman1

Paul2 said:


> I have no idea why they went to Sumy in the first place, instead of using these forces on Kharkiv, while fully knowing that Sumy will not be able to relieve Kharkiv.
> 
> That small town, and a few garrisons there ate like a whole army division.


It was to help guard the supply line, they didn't do a good job.



CAPRICORN-88 said:


> And all these supposedly are stolen and originated from a warzone that is still raging.
> 
> very creative and imaginative.
> 
> But offers very little credence and hard to believe. Especially to those with a bit of commonsense.


Not sure why its hard to believe? There are hard evidence of them looting and stealing vehicles.


----------



## PakAlp

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> And all these supposedly are stolen and originated from a warzone that is still raging.
> 
> very creative and imaginative.
> 
> But offers very little credence and hard to believe. Especially to those with a bit of commonsense.



So Russian troops have been busy taking dishwashers, cookers, microwaves, sofas from Ukraine, that must have been the real reason for the invasion.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Apollon

coffee_cup said:


> This is not looking good.
> 
> Lets really hope that this war ends soon. 100s of millions will suffer whereas few hundred will get dirty rich!



How naive you are. Its far right morons. Same booed Merkel.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510472154068013057

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

PakAlp said:


> So Russian troops have been busy taking dishwashers, cookers, microwaves, sofas from Ukraine, that must have been the real reason for the invasion.


Russians don’t come to liberate Ukraine from Nazi and drug addicts.
They come to loot and leave a destroyed country behind.


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## beijingwalker

Oldman1 said:


> You don't want to send in a large force that will get wiped out in one go, and its hard to manage and coordinate a large force especially by the Russians.


No batallion or above scale engagements from either side.


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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> nothing will happen.
> 
> There are still not really a point to talk, for a peace talk to work, you need to have 1 side that clearly have some advantage and the other side is desperate. I don't see both side have any advantage to talk.
> 
> On the other hand, Kyiv front is almost completely rout, couple with the influx of Territorial Defence Force, I can foresee a more general push on Ukraine part. If I was the Ukrainian, I will go after the southern route along Zaporizhzhia and Kherson, first, that is the closest, which mean less logistic issue, second doing so will also free up some element that are currently defending Odesa
> 
> We will see how the next phase of counter offensive goes, because if Russian fall back, they would want to talk, and if Ukrainian cannot make head way or stuck in the counter offensive, they would want to talk.


Need to take Melitopol and Berdiansk, split the enemy force in two. I've seen reports the Russians may blow up the bridge at Kherson city, so the Ukrainians may have to go around. But looking at the map some of the cities nearby Donbas region will be important in defense and offense against the Russian forces. Don't know what the status of the Russian forces from Kiev operation but they should be in shambles and morale really low, I wouldn't be surprise many would quit or desert.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510231769034989569


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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> They did, it included unspecified amount of Uparmored Humvee in this 300 millions aid package
> 
> And the Bushmaster 4x4 is a MRAP.


Need to provide those helos and jets as well as artillery and so on. This is for the war and post war for Ukraine's security. This is a good time when you have atrocities going on in Ukraine by the Russians that it doesn't matter anymore. Sneak those jets on truck trailers at night or something.


----------



## gambit

beijingwalker said:


> Nato states can only circle around and make noises, no one dares to take on Russia head on


More like Russia does not want to take NATO head on, else Russia would have invaded Poland, a NATO member.

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## Viet

beijingwalker said:


> No batallion or above scale engagements from either side.


Where you get that info?
Let’s assume it’s true. Then probably because Russia invasion army is too small for large scale offensives.
Putin has 230,000 men including the separatists. Plus 15,000 mercenaries. That’s too little for a size of a country larger than Germany.

An invasion army must exceed defending force by 3:1 or higher.

The PLA had 600,000 men attacking 100,000 men on Vietnam side in the 1979 war.

Putin should have sent one million soldiers into the war. Minimum.

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## jhungary

beijingwalker said:


> No batallion or above scale engagements from either side.


I would say please do not comment on military issue you have no idea what you are talking about

Battalion is a organisation that is above deployment level, we are not fighting a war in 1942 anymore, you don't see unit being deployed in a Battalion as a whole. You break down a battalion to fight a war in smaller group, either in company or platoon.

Russia uses Battalion instead of Regiment or Brigade as a basic unit level

I was deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan as a Brigade Combat team, does that mean we need to have all 4000 people in the same Brigade jammed up in the same area and fight??

The last time the US was fighting in a Battalion level is 1944 when the US held down German counter attack at Normandy. (or Battle of the Bulge if you count defensive action)

And US Battalion is a lot less people than a Russian Battalion.

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## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> And all these supposedly are stolen and originated from a warzone that is still raging.
> 
> very creative and imaginative.
> 
> But offers very little credence and hard to believe. Especially to those with a bit of commonsense.



Only if you dont know russia. Russia always does this. Looting civilians, rape and murder them. Its part of their military doctrine and alwas has been.

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## Oldman1

Viet said:


> Where you get that info?
> Let’s assume it’s true. Then probably because Russia invasion army is too small for large scale offensives.
> Putin has 230,000 men including the separatists. Plus 15,000 mercenaries. That’s too little for a size of a country larger than Germany.
> 
> An invasion army must exceed defending force by 3:1 or higher.
> 
> The PLA had 600,000 men attacking 100,000 men on Vietnam side in the 1979 war.
> 
> Putin should have sent one million soldiers into the war. Minimum.


Not just small, just hard to move around, its not like open desert during Gulf War 1, go around in the mud they are stuck, go on the road in a column they can go only like 1 vehicle at a time and get ambushed and stuck and can't move forward.


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## Apollon

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510344076838715399
> 
> Russian society is completely backward. The cruelty we’re seeing in Ukraine is unreal. The Nazis would be proud.



Actually this is typical red army behavior and was forbidden in the army of 3rd Reich. Nazis were bad but red army was worse and we see that now. Its what they do. Looting raping, murdering


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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510469919086981121As Russian troops withdraw, the extent of destruction to Ukrainian infrastructure being more visible.


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Need to provide those helos and jets as well as artillery and so on. This is for the war and post war for Ukraine's security. This is a good time when you have atrocities going on in Ukraine by the Russians that it doesn't matter anymore. Sneak those jets on truck trailers at night or something.



Well, jet at this stage really is not a big concern, after the war is over and they need to reconstitute their Air Force, then may be.

At this point, Ukraine needed a lot of tactical equipment to goes with the upcoming TDF influx. My source told me they have completed round 1 of TDF mobilisation which mean there are 200,000 TDF force coming in a week or 2 after their training is complete. And they are looking at another round of TDF mobilisation. You will need a lot of armoured vehicle, APC and stuff like that for them to use.

From my source, they are aiming at forming at least 2 more Amour Brigade, which you are talking about 120 to 144 tanks in total.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Well, jet at this stage really is not a big concern, after the war is over and they need to reconstitute their Air Force, then may be.
> 
> At this point, Ukraine needed a lot of tactical equipment to goes with the upcoming TDF influx. My source told me they have completed round 1 of TDF mobilisation which mean there are 200,000 TDF force coming in a week or 2 after their training is complete. And they are looking at another round of TDF mobilisation. You will need a lot of armoured vehicle, APC and stuff like that for them to use.
> 
> From my source, they are aiming at forming at least 2 more Amour Brigade, which you are talking about 120 to 144 tanks in total.


Feel like they need air cover in the long run.


----------



## Apollon

beijingwalker said:


> Nato states can only circle around and make noises, no one dares to take on Russia head on
> 
> View attachment 829949



You obviously dont know nature eithee. Hyenas are the far superior hunters in tge Serengeti and push back lions when clashing, lions are more scavengers than hyenas. 









Hyenas have a bad rap—but they’re Africa’s most successful predator


Centuries of storytelling paint the four species of hyena as laughing, demonic scavengers. It’s time to set the record straight.




www.nationalgeographic.com

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Need to take Melitopol and Berdiansk, split the enemy force in two. I've seen reports the Russians may blow up the bridge at Kherson city, so the Ukrainians may have to go around. But looking at the map some of the cities nearby Donbas region will be important in defense and offense against the Russian forces. Don't know what the status of the Russian forces from Kiev operation but they should be in shambles and morale really low, I wouldn't be surprise many would quit or desert.


They are losing Kherson, I don't see how they can hold Kherson and kept Pressure on Mariupol at the same time, extra troop deployment in the region is monitored so there are no way they can sneak in anyone to support the effort south. At this point I am not even sure can Russia hold Mariupol had they capture it. That just too hard of a fighting. I would not imagine a lot of Russia troop left to defend Mariupol or even the Counter Offensive south for that matter.

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## Viet

Oldman1 said:


> Not just small, just hard to move around, its not like open desert during Gulf War 1, go around in the mud they are stuck, go on the road in a column they can go only like 1 vehicle at a time and get ambushed and stuck and can't move forward.


Yes not a good time at all to launch invasion.
This time in spring the ground is not hardened not suitable for tanks.
There is reason why Germany launched attacks on Kiev in summer.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> T-72s and other vehicles that Ukrainians are familiar with was the best choice over the M60s we talked about and they need it now. Still think they need to be provided with MiGs and helos as well to help counter in the air as well as provide counter offensive. This would help them significantly in the long run in this war. The Russians are killing men of military age left and right as well as raping and killing women and destroying evidence. Not to mention kidnapping and removing the population in some parts of the region especially the Donbas region. The M60s are like in U.S. only right? I mean we can give the M60s to Ukraine in post war if the U.S. can't guarantee Ukraine's security, at least give them weapons to deter or deal with any future invasion by Russia which most likely will happen depending on the peace talks. The Ukrainians forces will pretty much be their own security guarantee for sure. Or the other option is having a Rapid Reaction Force by the countries that are willing to send forces in to help Ukraine, separate from involvement of NATO. Poland and some countries that were willing to send in peacekeepers, but that's more of during small conflicts not a full blown war so don't know if they are willing to send in forces during an future invasion.



As I say, they have to do it so the incoming TDF can be transport to battlefield, at this point you need more ground troop to battle and it's no good if they have no mode of Transportation.

T-72 would be a lot better than M60, I was saying M60 because I have no idea which NATO nation hold Soviet Tank stock, I do know which nation in the region held US stock... No, Egypt and Israel both have excess M60 Stock, but if Poland have T-72. then its more logical to hand over that and probably resupply Poland with M1 Abrams. They are buying 250 M1 anyway, may as well just transfer our own M1 Stock to them. 

After the war, Ukraine is going to need to keep a strong standing army, my source told me they are mulling a 1 million army with 400,000 active and 600,000 reserve personnel, and this is going to need a lot of hand me down, but that is probably only happen after the war. 

And I don't think Rapid Deployment Force would work, they have to be outside NATO (which mean it cannot be in EU) and it would have to be a Military power to be able to stop future Russian attack, which mean you can rule out CIS region member. This would only work if Sweden, Austria stay out of NATO and contribute with forces from like Singapore, Australia and New Zealand. Otherwise it would not happened.



Oldman1 said:


> Feel like they need air cover in the long run.


They do, just not now.

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## Apollon

German media say that secret service got informations putin wants sucess till May so he can celebrate it at their laughable red square show. Its amazing how deep western networks have infiltrated the kremlin

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## Viet

Apollon said:


> German media say that secret service got informations putin wants sucess till May so he can celebrate it at their laughable red square show. Its amazing how deep western networks have infiltrated the kremlin


Yes Putin enjoys victory, enjoys war what else has he achieved for common Russians during 22y in power? Degrading Russia into a gas station. Making his country to a chinese slave. Now blackmail other he won’t deliver gas if not paid in rubles. Rediculous.


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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510323171815264258


----------



## Oldman1

Apollon said:


> German media say that secret service got informations putin wants sucess till May so he can celebrate it at their laughable red square show. Its amazing how deep western networks have infiltrated the kremlin


Thats just crazy. Give the Russian military such a timetable to end the war like that.


----------



## PakFactor

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510323171815264258



LOL


----------



## Oldman1

Glad the U.S. military hasn't had a parade like that in such a long time. Funny thing is Trump wanted a military parade.


----------



## jamahir

Ex-UN prosecutor urges global arrest warrant for Putin​Sat, April 2, 2022, 7:01 PM

GENEVA (AP) — The former chief prosecutor of United Nations war crimes tribunals for the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda has called for an international arrest warrant to be issued for Russian President Vladimir Putin.

“Putin is a war criminal,” Carla Del Ponte told the Swiss newspaper Le Temps in an interview published Saturday.
In interviews given to Swiss media to mark the release of her latest book, the Swiss lawyer who oversaw U.N. investigations in Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia said there were clear war crimes being committed in Ukraine.
She said she was particularly shocked by the use of mass graves in Russia's war on Ukraine, which recalls the worst of the wars in the former Yugoslavia.

“I hoped never to see mass graves again,” she told the newspaper Blick. “These dead people have loved ones who don’t even know what’s become of them. That is unacceptable.”

Other war crimes she identified in Ukraine included attacks on civilians, the destruction of civilian buildings and even the demolishing of entire villages.

She said the investigation in Ukraine would be easier than that in Yugoslavia because the country itself had requested an international probe. The current ICC chief prosecutor, Karim Khan, visited Ukraine last month.
If the ICC finds proof of war crimes, she said, “you must go up the chain of command until you reach those who took the decisions.”

She said it would be possible to bring even Putin to account.

“You mustn’t let go, continue to investigation. When the investigation into Slobodan Milosevic began, he was still president of Serbia. Who would have thought then that he would one day be judged? Nobody,” she told Blick.
Del Ponte added that investigations should be carried out into possible war crimes committed by both sides, pointing also to reports about the alleged torture of some Russian prisoners of war by Ukrainian forces.

---

Jamahir's comment : This hypocritical woman should first look at the fact of her comrades George Bush jr and Tony B'liar being wanted by an international arrest warrant issued by the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission in *2011* for genocide and war crimes in Iraq. Then she should look at her NATO comrades doing destruction, war crimes and sabotage in Libya, Syria and Venezuela 2011 onwards. She speaks of Russian destroying civilian buildings so this is Libya destroyed by her NATO comrades :





The real war criminal in the world in NATO and it should be put on trial.


----------



## Apollon

PakFactor said:


> LOL



Of course you laugh about that. Women are not seen as equal human beings in your ideology.

I must say that im rather thankful to see here how bizarre other parts of the world are and how thankful i can be to be European.


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## The SC




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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Ex-UN prosecutor urges global arrest warrant for Putin​Sat, April 2, 2022, 7:01 PM
> 
> GENEVA (AP) — The former chief prosecutor of United Nations war crimes tribunals for the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda has called for an international arrest warrant to be issued for Russian President Vladimir Putin.
> 
> “Putin is a war criminal,” Carla Del Ponte told the Swiss newspaper Le Temps in an interview published Saturday.
> In interviews given to Swiss media to mark the release of her latest book, the Swiss lawyer who oversaw U.N. investigations in Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia said there were clear war crimes being committed in Ukraine.
> She said she was particularly shocked by the use of mass graves in Russia's war on Ukraine, which recalls the worst of the wars in the former Yugoslavia.
> 
> “I hoped never to see mass graves again,” she told the newspaper Blick. “These dead people have loved ones who don’t even know what’s become of them. That is unacceptable.”
> 
> Other war crimes she identified in Ukraine included attacks on civilians, the destruction of civilian buildings and even the demolishing of entire villages.
> 
> She said the investigation in Ukraine would be easier than that in Yugoslavia because the country itself had requested an international probe. The current ICC chief prosecutor, Karim Khan, visited Ukraine last month.
> If the ICC finds proof of war crimes, she said, “you must go up the chain of command until you reach those who took the decisions.”
> 
> She said it would be possible to bring even Putin to account.
> 
> “You mustn’t let go, continue to investigation. When the investigation into Slobodan Milosevic began, he was still president of Serbia. Who would have thought then that he would one day be judged? Nobody,” she told Blick.
> Del Ponte added that investigations should be carried out into possible war crimes committed by both sides, pointing also to reports about the alleged torture of some Russian prisoners of war by Ukrainian forces.
> 
> ---
> 
> Jamahir's comment : This hypocritical woman should first look at the fact of her comrades George Bush jr and Tony B'liar being wanted by an international arrest warrant issued by the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission in *2011* for genocide and war crimes in Iraq. Then she should look at her NATO comrades doing destruction, war crimes and sabotage in Libya, Syria and Venezuela 2011 onwards. She speaks of Russian destroying civilian buildings so this is Libya destroyed by her NATO comrades :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The real war criminal in the world in NATO and it should be put on trial.



Why you support russian war crimes? Care to explain? You like what russia does? Raping and murdering civilians? This here is about Russia, not Bush. I cant kill one who is close to you and say its ok, because other murder too.


----------



## Oldman1

Apollon said:


> Of course you laugh about that. Women are not seen as equal human beings in your ideology.
> 
> I must say that im rather thankful to see here how bizarre other parts of the world are and how thankful i can be to be European.


Look at how they treat the Russian women in the parade compared to the Ukrainian one. See the differences? You can tell who takes this seriously.

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## Apollon

The SC said:


>



Yes, genius Putin send his soldiers into slaughterhouse and got his equipment mass destroyed including 60km long tank column, just to fool us all. What a master strategist.

Nobody can even grasp the genius behind his decissions. 

Russian propaganda is always laughable because its primitive and adesses rather low intellect people but now it goes really into the absurd realm

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## jhungary

The SC said:


>


lol, he draw troop from the east to fight in Kyiv, so he is drawing troop from his main event to participate a feint attack when the feint got stuck?? LOL

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Why you support russian war crimes? Care to explain? You like what russia does? Raping and murdering civilians? This here is about Russia, not Bush. I cant kill one who is close to you and say its ok, because other murder too.



1. Where are these supposed Russian war crimes happening, rapes, murders and all ?

2. That hypocritical female is calling for an international arrest warrant for alleged war crimes, yes ? She is a NATO war crimes and genocide enabler so she should first look in her own backyard before pointing at others. This is a simple human logic.



Apollon said:


> Russian propaganda is always laughable because its primitive and adesses rather low intellect people but now it goes really into the absurd realm



I agree, Russia can't compete with NATO in false propaganda, whether about Saddam dunking his opponents in acid tanks or Gaddafi giving viagra to his soldiers to rape Libyan females or Bashar al Assad firing chemical bombs at Syrian civilians or Maduro being an incompetent "mere" bus driver.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> lol, he draw troop from the east to fight in Kyiv, so he is drawing troop from his main event to participate a feign attack when the feign got stuck?? LOL


If true it was a good feint, lots of dead Russian troops and equipment. Now the real war will happen for those troops that was involved in the feint when they go south. If you were a Russian soldier that was involved in that "feint" and being taken out to Belarus and sent back into Ukraine in the south, how do you feel?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510168448986456072

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510168460952838146

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Oldman1

With the retreat from the airport that VDV took earlier, well I posted this because...


----------



## Viet

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510323171815264258


I don’t know if Putin is proud of this, shaving female Ukrainian prisoners. Keep it up. Ukraine not falling on its knee yet.
Ukraine women to the front.

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Of course you laugh about that. Women are not seen as equal human beings in your ideology.
> 
> I must say that im rather thankful to see here how bizarre other parts of the world are and how thankful i can be to be European.



Actually it was Islam that brought rights to females in the old world and the European Christians adopted some of Islam's laws. I quote my thread from 2015 whose OP is an article written by an Indian Christian woman who married an Indian Muslim under Islamic marriage law because that better protected her socio-economic rights in case of divorce ( yes, divorce rights also given to the female in Islam ) :


> When we examine marriage laws in their historic context, it is interesting to note that the universally accepted notion that marriages are contractual rather than sacramental originates in Muslim law, which was accepted by the French law only in the 1800s and incorporated into the English law in the 1850s and became part of codified Hindu law as late as 1955. Today it appears to be the most practical way of dealing with the institution of marriage. Treating marriage as a sacrament which binds the parties for life has resulted in some of the most discriminatory practices against women such as sati and denial of right to divorce and remarriage, even in the most adverse conditions.
> 
> The cornerstone of a Muslim marriage is consent, ejab-o-qubul (proposal and acceptance) and requires the bride to accept the marriage proposal on her own free will. This freedom to consent (or refuse), which was given to Muslim women 1,400 years ago, is still not available under Hindu law since sacramental rituals such as saptapadi and kanya dan (seven steps round the nuptial fire and gifting of the bride to the groom) still form essential ceremonies of a Hindu marriage. Even after the codification of Hindu law, the notion of consent is not built into the marriage ceremonies.
> 
> The contract of marriage (nikahnama) allows for negotiated terms and conditions, it can also include the right to a delegated divorce (talaq-e-tafweez) where the woman is delegated the right to divorce her husband if any of the negotiated terms and conditions are violated.
> 
> Mehr is another unique concept of Muslim law meant to safeguard the financial future of the wife. It is an obligation, not a choice, and can be in the form of cash, valuables or securities. While there is no ceiling, a minimum amount to provide her security after marriage must be stipulated. This is a more beneficial concept than streedhan which is given by choice and usually by the natal family. In addition to Mehr, at the time of divorce, a Muslim woman has the right to fair and reasonable settlement, and this is statutorily recognised under the Muslim Women (Protection of Rights on Divorce) Act, 1986 as per the 2001 ruling of the Supreme Court in the Daniel Latifi case.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> 1. Where are these supposed Russian war crimes happening, rapes, murders and all ?
> 
> 2. That hypocritical female is calling for an international arrest warrant for alleged war crimes, yes ? She is a NATO war crimes and genocide enabler so she should first look in her own backyard before pointing at others. This is a simple human logic.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, Russia can't compete with NATO in false propaganda, whether about Saddam dunking his opponents in acid tanks or Gaddafi giving viagra to his soldiers to rape Libyan females or Bashar al Assad firing chemical bombs at Syrian civilians or Maduro being an incompetent "mere" bus driver.



We see that russians murder the civilians in villages where ukrainian army pushs them back. We see mass graves. They kill even children. They always do this, its part of their military doctrine. They mass rape women and murder.

Do you support this? Yes or no. 

No bullshit about Bush or Blair or emperor Palpatine. Just clear answer, do you support russias war crimes?

City of Bucha was liberated, they find bodies of shot civilians evrywhere, even with bound hands. Elderly people who fled in the forest report horrendous events. And people like you stand by and clap.









Streets of Bucha found strewn with corpses after Ukrainians retake strategic town


Russia has been accused of committing war crimes after hundreds of Ukrainians were found dead in the town north-west of Kyiv




www.telegraph.co.uk







jamahir said:


> Actually it was Islam that brought rights to females in the old world and the European Christians adopted some of Islam's laws. I quote my thread from 2015 whose OP is an article written by an Indian Christian woman who married an Indian Muslim under Islamic marriage law because that better protected her socio-economic rights in case of divorce ( yes, divorce rights also given to the female in Islam ) :



What utter bullshit. Women had rights in Roman Empire before islam or christianity even existed.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510236025628643334

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510239872858333195

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
2


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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> We see that russians murder the civilians in villages where ukrainian army pushs them back. We see mass graves. They kill even children. They always do this, its part of their military doctrine. They mass rape women and murder.
> 
> Do you support this? Yes or no.
> 
> No bullshit about Bush or Blair or emperor Palpatine. Just clear answer, do you support russias war crimes?
> 
> City of Bucha was liberated, they find bodies of shot civilians evrywhere, even with bound hands. Elderly people who fled in the forest report horrendous events. And people like you stand by and clap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Streets of Bucha found strewn with corpses after Ukrainians retake strategic town
> 
> 
> Russia has been accused of committing war crimes after hundreds of Ukrainians were found dead in the town north-west of Kyiv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.telegraph.co.uk



You have been talking against Russians from day one of the special operation so you now suddenly found "proof" to justify your belief. How do you know this was done by the Russians and not by the Ukranian Nazis ? It is clearly known that the Ukranian Nazis have been committing crimes against Ukranian civilians and it is the Russians who have been delivering emergency supplies to the Ukranian civilians including to the areas surrounding Kiev. The Chechens have been rescuing civilians from buildings present in fighting scenes.

This scene in Bucha looks exactly like the created scenes from Libya and Syria in early 2011. Excuses for NATO to get involved. [ Edit : Get involved more. ]



Apollon said:


> What utter bullshit. Women had rights in Roman Empire before islam or christianity even existed.



Maybe in the Roman empire, maybe, but when Christianity was adopted in Europe the females were deprived of rights. From this Wikipedia page :


> The Catholic Church prohibits divorce, and permits annulment (a finding that the marriage was not canonically valid) under a narrow set of circumstances.[8][9][10][11][12] The Eastern Orthodox Church permits divorce and remarriage in church in certain circumstances,[13] though its rules are generally more restrictive than the civil divorce rules of most countries. Most Protestant churches discourage divorce though the way divorce is addressed varies by denomination; for example, the Reformed Church in America permits divorce and remarriage,[14] while connexions such as the Evangelical Methodist Church Conference forbid divorce except in the case of fornication and do not allow for remarriage in any circumstance.


The reforms in Christian marriage law, as I quoted earlier, were brought in through Islam.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510513745096810497

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510473883798937601

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510462025859842054

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510403679534260227

Russia's chief negotiator: Ukraine has agreed to the principle of neutrality and not to join NATO



https://twitter.com/AlArabiya_Brk


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> You have been talking against Russians from day one of the special operation so you now suddenly found "proof" to justify your belief. How do you know this was done by the Russians and not by the Ukranian Nazis ? It is clearly known that the Ukranian Nazis have been committing crimes against Ukranian civilians and it is the Russians who have been delivering emergency supplies to the Ukranian civilians including to the areas surrounding Kiev. The Chechens have been rescuing civilians from buildings present in fighting scenes.
> 
> This scene in Bucha looks exactly like the created scenes from Libya and Syria in early 2011. Excuses for NATO to get involved.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe in the Roman empire, maybe, but when Christianity was adopted in Europe the females were deprived of rights. From this Wikipedia page :
> 
> The reforms in Christian marriage law, as I quoted earlier, were brought in through Islam.



Sorry but you insult my intellect and i find your rubbish more and more revolting and sickening. There is no need to debate.

Watch and see Russia destroyed once and for all.

Slava Ukraini!

Reactions: Haha Haha:

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509940743485497353


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510391520129687562

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Foinikas

Oldman1 said:


> Look at how they treat the Russian women in the parade compared to the Ukrainian one. See the differences? You can tell who takes this seriously.


They're both fantastic. They are the same people in effect. Slava Bogu.


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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510523896533065729Information video of the ministry of defense about minesweeping and rapid action activities that will not hinder the strait traffic. Turkish navy has one of the most elite demining filotilla of the NATO. SAS commandos are also seen in the video. Underwater Defense (SAS), is the EOD (Explosive Ordnance Disposal) unit of the Turkish Navy,

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Sorry but you insult my intellect and i find your rubbish more and more revolting and sickening. There is no need to debate.
> 
> Watch and see Russia destroyed once and for all.
> 
> Slava Ukraini!


You will be extremely disappointed,but Russia will not be destroyed.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510327206991568896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510289767132540932

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> You will be extremely disappointed,but Russia will not be destroyed.



It already is. The country is rotten to the core. A walking corpse. 

Its economy collapsed, the intelligent people run away to the west. Its military collapsed and shown as weak clown troop worldwide. 

Im against negotiations at this point. Wipe them out of Ukraine, push them out of Crimea, no concessions.


----------



## Foinikas

Oldman1 said:


> With the retreat from the airport that VDV took earlier, well I posted this because...


That song is classic,but I agree with the lyrics of this parody: Who designed this mission? 

It was a good find.

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## Apollon

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510327206991568896
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510289767132540932



I think its smart to bust your propaganda right when you post it.

Its not "beginning discontent". Its AfD, russias 5th column in Germany since 7 years, they booed Merkel, now boo Scholz. They are a 5% minority on Germany.

Here the same freaks boo Merkel in 2015.







So one post of your propaganda bla bla neutralized.



Foinikas said:


> They're both fantastic. They are the same people in effect. Slava Bogu.



They are not the same people. Ukraine is different people. Are we same as turks as well for you?

Dude stop your putinist facism, it gets disgusting .


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> Only if you dont know russia. Russia always does this. Looting civilians, rape and murder them. Its part of their military doctrine and alwas has been.


Care to share the evidences of your claims with us. The atrocities of the Allied Force in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria, etc are well documented and publicized but Russia will be interesting. 

All I was shown so far in Ukraine is the opposite which we can't verified including an allegedly pro-Russia Ukrainian female stripped naked to the knees and tortured and beaten by AVOZ neo-nazi soldier with a whip like weapon. 

I have just watched Euronews where they admitted and confirmed that most of the video clips of how gallant the Ukrainian fighters in resistance of the Russian soldiers in circulation were FAKE. Many were not even in Ukraine. 

At least Euronews admitted it but I am not bothered as these news do not concerned me nor you. 

Another conflict is in the making. 
Azerbaijan is now taking advantage of Ukrainian issue and may starts attacking the Armenian with support of Turkey. 

So when will all this ends? 

IMO you should more concerned about things closer to your home such as Cyprus. 

Incidentally both Greece and Turkey are members if NATO.

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## The SC

Apollon said:


> I think its smart to bust your bullshit right when you post it.
> 
> Its not "beginning discontent". Its AfD, russias 5th column in Germany since 7 years, they booed Merkel, now boo Scholz. They are a 5% minority on Germany.
> 
> Here the same freaks boo Merkel in 2015.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So one post of your propaganda bla bla neutralized.


Watch your dirty mouth from personal attacks.. you can go cry to twitter about this,,

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## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Care to share the evidences of your claims with us. The atrocities of the Allied Force in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria, etc are well documented and publicized but Russia will be interesting.
> 
> All I was shown so far in Ukraine is the opposite which we can't verified including an allegedly pro-Russia Ukrainian female stripped naked to the knees and tortured and beaten by AVOZ neo-nazi soldier with a whip like weapon.
> 
> I have just watched Euronews where they admitted and confirmed that most of the video clips of how gallant the Ukrainian fighters in resistance of the Russian soldiers in circulation were FAKE. Many were not even in Ukraine.
> 
> At least Euronews admitted it but I am not bothered as these news do not concerned me nor you.
> 
> Another conflict is in the making.
> Azerbaijan is now taking advantage of Ukrainian issue and may starts attacking the Armenian with support of Turkey.
> 
> So when will all this ends?
> 
> IMO you should more concerned about things closer to your home such as Cyprus.
> 
> Incidentally both Greece and Turkey are members if NATO.



In WWII red army mass raped and looted, same in chechenya war, syria, now in ukraine. Its the way they are.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Oldman1 said:


> It was to help guard the supply line, they didn't do a good job.
> 
> 
> Not sure why its hard to believe? There are hard evidence of them looting and stealing vehicles.


As I said, no credence to these stories or video clips which were recycled over and over again. 

Offering no clue to when it happened or whether they were edited. 

So when did it happened, in the beginning or last week? Or staged.


----------



## Wergeland

jamahir said:


> Ex-UN prosecutor urges global arrest warrant for Putin​Sat, April 2, 2022, 7:01 PM
> 
> GENEVA (AP) — The former chief prosecutor of United Nations war crimes tribunals for the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda has called for an international arrest warrant to be issued for Russian President Vladimir Putin.
> 
> “Putin is a war criminal,” Carla Del Ponte told the Swiss newspaper Le Temps in an interview published Saturday.
> In interviews given to Swiss media to mark the release of her latest book, the Swiss lawyer who oversaw U.N. investigations in Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia said there were clear war crimes being committed in Ukraine.
> She said she was particularly shocked by the use of mass graves in Russia's war on Ukraine, which recalls the worst of the wars in the former Yugoslavia.
> 
> “I hoped never to see mass graves again,” she told the newspaper Blick. “These dead people have loved ones who don’t even know what’s become of them. That is unacceptable.”
> 
> Other war crimes she identified in Ukraine included attacks on civilians, the destruction of civilian buildings and even the demolishing of entire villages.
> 
> She said the investigation in Ukraine would be easier than that in Yugoslavia because the country itself had requested an international probe. The current ICC chief prosecutor, Karim Khan, visited Ukraine last month.
> If the ICC finds proof of war crimes, she said, “you must go up the chain of command until you reach those who took the decisions.”
> 
> She said it would be possible to bring even Putin to account.
> 
> “You mustn’t let go, continue to investigation. When the investigation into Slobodan Milosevic began, he was still president of Serbia. Who would have thought then that he would one day be judged? Nobody,” she told Blick.
> Del Ponte added that investigations should be carried out into possible war crimes committed by both sides, pointing also to reports about the alleged torture of some Russian prisoners of war by Ukrainian forces.
> 
> ---
> 
> Jamahir's comment : This hypocritical woman should first look at the fact of her comrades George Bush jr and Tony B'liar being wanted by an international arrest warrant issued by the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission in *2011* for genocide and war crimes in Iraq. Then she should look at her NATO comrades doing destruction, war crimes and sabotage in Libya, Syria and Venezuela 2011 onwards. She speaks of Russian destroying civilian buildings so this is Libya destroyed by her NATO comrades :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The real war criminal in the world in NATO and it should be put on trial.



You wont find any justice here my friend. We have war mongering politicians running our nations. They are all thieves and lunatics. The West is what it is not because what our politicians are today. But because there were good qualified statesmen who built the foundations long time ago.

Western politicians are all sold out to coorporates. All that is left is brainless imposter who pretend to be tough guys when in reality they are running around like headless chickens.

Thats what you get when extreme capitalism runs out its full course. Money destroys nations.

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## Apollon

The SC said:


> Watch your dirty mouth from personal attacks.. you can go cry to twitter about this,,



Its no personal attacks, i just neutralize the propaganda as you post it. Its best way to get rid of it before it catchs traction. 

@Vergennes agree on this?


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510520180295835648

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## CAPRICORN-88

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510327206991568896
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510289767132540932


What President Xi told EU is interesting?

EU should first adopted a more independent stance instead of following the agenda of a superpower apparently referring to the US. 

It is no point trying to bribe China with hundreds of billion of Euro to align herself with some of EU against Russia. 

Trade with Russia will carried on as usual. 

Many EU Parliamentarians were still sanctioned in retaliation by China today after EU Parliament suspended the China EU Investment Agreement.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510536953149722626

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510508002348081156


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## CAPRICORN-88

With rising Gas and Oil prices, EU is entering in a stage of hyperinflation.

Will EU nations fall into RECESSION this year or next?

Will there be social unrest due to rising prices? 

Then EU should truly say Thank You to the US.

President Xi also told EU, NATO an entity of the COLD WAR should have been closed down.

I agree. It is destabilising and a threat to peace today. 

If NATO did not expanded eastward as they promised to S. U. back in 1991 then Ukraine would not be in a civil war today.


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## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> What President Xi told EU is interesting?
> 
> EU should first adopted a more independent stance instead of following the agenda of a superpower apparently referring to the US.
> 
> It is no point trying to bribe China with hundreds of billion of Euro to align herself with some of EU against Russia.
> 
> Trade with Russia will carried on as usual.
> 
> Many EU Parliamentarians were still sanctioned in retaliation by China today after EU Parliament suspended the China EU Investment Agreement.



It is european interest to destroy russian facism. We dont need USA to tell us, that Russia must be destroyed in Ukraine. We understand that ourself. If Ukraine falls, next would be baltics and poland.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Lithionia is just a city state with 2 million over population. 

Any city in China or India is bigger than this tiny town. 

So stop promoting Lithuania as though it is so important.

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## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> With rising Gas and Oil prices, EU is entering in a stage of hyperinflation.
> 
> Will EU nations fall into RECESSION this year or next?
> 
> Will there be social unrest due to rising prices?
> 
> Then EU should truly say Thank You to the US.
> 
> President Xi also told EU, NATO an entity of the COLD WAR should have been closed down.
> 
> I agree. It is destabilising and a threat to peace today.
> 
> If NATO did not expanded eastward as they promised to S. U. back in 1991 then Ukraine would not be in a civil war today.



Will dismiss your propaganda as well.

1. Never was any promise to not expand eastward.

2. Russia has violated eastern europe for hundreds of years. Eastern european nations need NATO to protect them from Russia. If Ukraine would be in NATO, it would not have been attacked.

3. NATO will now station nuclear weapons in Poland to deter any russian attempt to attack eastern member states. No concessions to the russian facists.

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## Messerschmitt

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Lithionia is just a city state with 2 million over population.
> 
> Any city in China or India is bigger than this tiny town.
> 
> So stop promoting Lithuania as though it is so important.


I am sharing news. If you don't like them, ignore them.

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## sammuel

~


*The new Russian flag ,*

Protestors are now using a new Russian flag , with the red wiped out.





































White-blue-white flag - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> It is european interest to destroy russian facism. We dont need USA to tell us, that Russia must be destroyed in Ukraine. We understand that ourself. If Ukraine falls, next would be baltics and poland.


How does such action benefits Greece or the Greek? 

Are you a racist?

Russia is a neighbour you have to learn to cohabit with. It won't go away?

Before we have to contend with a Nazi Germany and it did not go away either?

Now it is a revival of neo-Nazism and you are willing to live with that?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510369608724885505

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## CAPRICORN-88

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> 
> *The new Russian flag ,*
> 
> Protestors are now using a new Russian flag , with the red wiped out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> White-blue-white flag - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


Russia will be Russia in any color. 

New survey shown President Putin has the supports of 83% of the Russian. 

So Russians thinks he is right while the US and West thinks otherwise. 

That is twice the popularity vote over US President Biden.

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## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> How does such action benefits Greece or the Greek?
> 
> Are you a racist?
> 
> Russia is a neighbour you have to learn to cohabit with. It won't go away?
> 
> Before we have to contend with a Nazi Germany and it did not go away either?
> 
> Now it is a revival of neo-Nazism and you are willing to live with that?



How much benefits it Greece when in 5 years russian facist army invades us, murders civilians and destroys evrything?

Russia is a facist regime like nazi germany in the 1930th. We must destroy it, no matter what. That they get crushed in Ukraine prevents them from attacking further. They must and will be destroyed completly in Ukraine. Evry russian soldier who gets destroyed, evry russian tank destroyed cant be used to attack Europe.


----------



## Muhammed45

The thread is overrun by NATO bots removing and bullying people with different thoughts by throwing direct insults at them and name calling them. @Chak Bamu sir, please watch this bot @Apollon

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## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> How much benefits it Greece when in 5 years russian facist army invades us, murders civilians and destroys evrything?
> 
> Russia is a facist regime like nazi germany in the 1930th. We must destroy it, no matter what. That they get crushed in Ukraine prevents them from attacking further. They must and will be destroyed completly in Ukraine. Evry russian soldier who gets destroyed, evry russian tank destroyed cant be used to attack Europe.


You are so sure Russia will invade Greece?
Have you considered Turkey will beat Russia to it?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510364944377729027

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510355345872506883


----------



## Ali_Baba

dBSPL said:


> The bitter and true face of war.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510376354310758409



Truly shocking to see this happening in Europe - I hope all the evidence is captured and Putin is charged with war crimes - even in absentia ...

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## Apollon

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510369608724885505



Kadyrov is not even in Ukraine. He posts pics with company billboards behind him, that show he is in russia. Also his phone data shows he never crossed ukraine border. 









Kadyrov did not come to Ukraine, his phone data reveals


Mykhaylo Tkach – Wednesday, 16 March 2022, 14:28




www.pravda.com.ua





Your next propaganda dismissed and neutralized.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510342437704720387


----------



## Apollon

Muhammed45 said:


> The thread is overrun by NATO bots removing and bullying people with different thoughts by throwing direct insults at them and name calling them. @Chak Bamu sir, please watch this bot @Apollon



Im not a bot, nor do i do name calling. I neutralize propaganda.

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## BHAN85

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> With rising Gas and Oil prices, EU is entering in a stage of hyperinflation.
> 
> Will EU nations fall into RECESSION this year or next?
> 
> Will there be social unrest due to rising prices?
> 
> Then EU should truly say Thank You to the US.
> 
> President Xi also told EU, NATO an entity of the COLD WAR should have been closed down.
> 
> I agree. It is destabilising and a threat to peace today.
> 
> If NATO did not expanded eastward as they promised to S. U. back in 1991 then Ukraine would not be in a civil war today.



Inflation high and Hyperinflation are two differents things.

There is inflation in eurozone, and it will increase.

But I dont think it will happen hypernflation.

More unemployment, less incomes, more inflation (food and energy prices increase), that's all.

Like 2008 crisis but with inflation.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510342437704720387


Apollon really hated the Russian very much.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510302616751947777

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## BHAN85

Apollon said:


> German media say that secret service got informations putin wants sucess till May so he can celebrate it at their laughable red square show. Its amazing how deep western networks have infiltrated the kremlin



It doesnt need infiltration when the enemy is happy using Western remote wireless microphones.

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## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> You are so sure Russia will invade Greece?
> Have you considered Turkey will beat Russia to it?



Putin dreams about an eurasian empire. Russia itself is a rotten dump. He wants western europe, where the industrial and cultural center of europe is located. He said it himself. From Lisboa to Vladivostik. 

So its important to destroy them early on.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

BHAN85 said:


> Inflation high and Hyperinflation are two differents things.
> 
> There is inflation in eurozone, and it will increase.
> 
> But I dont think it will happen hypernflation.
> 
> More unemployment, less incomes, more inflation (food and energy prices increase), that's all.
> 
> Like 2008 crisis but with inflation.


The question is: Will EU enter into hyperinflation? It getting there. 

At 7.8% it is aready very high. Highest inflation ever recorded over 40 years it seems.


----------



## Apollon

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510302616751947777











Russian forces seize 14 TONNES of supplies bound for besieged Mariupol


Around of 15 of the buses were able to return to Zaporizhzhia with some civilians on-board. It was unclear whether the remaining 30 would be allowed to proceed.




www.dailymail.co.uk





Russia seized and stole 14 tons of aid heading to Mariupol.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> Putin dreams about an eurasian empire. Russia itself is a rotten dump. He wants western europe, where the industrial and cultural center of europe is located. He said it himself. From Lisboa to Vladivostik.
> 
> So its important to destroy them early on.


Even if it is true, Greece was never a part of he former Soviet Union. 

Putin plan definitely excludes Greece. 

That is assuming it is true. But it is not.


----------



## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> The question is: Will EU enter into hyperinflation? It getting there.
> 
> At 7.8% it is aready very high. Highest inflation ever recorded over 40 years it seems.



The ECB still has done nothing against it. Interest rates are still zero. So wait them to act first. 

Beside that inflation is a better fate than russian occupation.


----------



## BHAN85

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> The question is: Will EU enter into hyperinflation? It getting there.
> 
> At 7.8% it is aready very high. Highest inflation ever recorded over 40 years it seems.


I dont think so.

Europe powers like Germany dominate little countries like Greece through debt. Hyperinflation would destroy debts.

You can avoid inflation decreasing salaries and increasing unemployment. That will happen.


----------



## jamahir

Foinikas said:


> You will be extremely disappointed,but Russia will not be destroyed.



He has such hate.  



sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> 
> *The new Russian flag ,*
> 
> Protestors are now using a new Russian flag , with the red wiped out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> White-blue-white flag - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org





CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Russia will be Russia in any color.
> 
> New survey shown President Putin has the supports of 83% of the Russian.
> 
> So Russians thinks he is right while the US and West thinks otherwise.
> 
> That is twice the popularity vote over US President Biden.



This changing of the flag is like the "rebel" rat flags in Libya and Syria. Those "rebels" were NATO-supported and these rebels in Russia will have NATO connection too.

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## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Even if it is true, Greece was never a part of he former Soviet Union.
> 
> Putin plan definitely excludes Greece.
> 
> That is assuming it is true. But it is not.



He cant even take Ukraine, so its important to smash his army. He doesnt have the force anymore to do anything.

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## sammuel

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Russia will be Russia in any color.
> 
> New survey shown President Putin has the supports of 83% of the Russian.
> 
> So Russians thinks he is right while the US and West thinks otherwise.
> 
> That is twice the popularity vote over US President Biden.



True popularity should be tested not by polls , but on election day.

That is , where the election is covered by FREE press , not where the public is fed just state propaganda , and other candidates allowed to run , not thrown into jail for 9 years . . .

You know non of this exists in Russia today.

The last free news paper the _*Novaya Gazeta*_ , was closed down just a few days ago :

Novaya Gazeta, the last independent newspaper in Russia, falls silent​





__





Loading…






www.washingtonpost.com


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> Russian forces seize 14 TONNES of supplies bound for besieged Mariupol
> 
> 
> Around of 15 of the buses were able to return to Zaporizhzhia with some civilians on-board. It was unclear whether the remaining 30 would be allowed to proceed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia seized and stole 14 tons of aid heading to Mariupol.


I will personally treat all news from UK Daily Mail with a pinch of salt.

BTW Did they included Baby Powders.


----------



## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> I will personally treat all news from UK Daily Mail with a pinch of salt.
> 
> BTW Did they included Baby Powders.



On personal note, how you like the new starstreak system delivered to Ukraine? It appears to be extremly effective in destroying russian tanks and helicopters. The constant flow of advanced weapons forced Putin to retreat. He hopes he can hold Donbas but NATO now ships in heavy weapons to allow Ukraine cleansing that area too.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510212188404912130


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> He cant even take Ukraine, so its important to smash his army. He doesnt have the force anymore to do anything.


That is because you do not understand how European and Russian fights their wars.

If Russia really wants to take over Kiev, Kiev would have fallened. 

But as I pointed out Kiev is never Russia main objective. It is basically to tie down the Ukrainian Army.

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## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> That is because you do not understand how European and Russian fights their wars.
> 
> If Russia really wants to take over Kiev, Kiev would have fallened.
> 
> But as I pointed out Kiev is never Russia main objective. It is basically to tie down the Ukrainian Army.



Yeah sure, he sacrifced 15.000 soldiers, got thousands of tanks, almost 100 helicopters and dozens of jets destroyed...all to tie down ukraine army...which was not tied down and now hunts his troops even as they run away.

Its 5 weeks war now and he has not even got mariupol. Time to finish them off.

According to you he does not want mariupol either since it has not fallen. 

He simply cant, his army is junk.

Did he plan losing 7 generals too?


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> On personal note, how you like the new starstreak system delivered to Ukraine? It appears to be extremly effective in destroying russian tanks and helicopters. The constant flow of advanced weapons forced Putin to retreat. He hopes he can hold Donbas but NATO now ships in heavy weapons to allow Ukraine cleansing that area too.


That is what UK News Media claimed? 

Can anyone verified it? 

The warzone around Kiev and many cities are basically flat and so Russian soldiers are using these APC and Tanks as shields in their encirclement. 
So they are sitting targets as the Russian order is to encircle and not attack. 
So one one gets close enough, even a RPG is good enough. 

All these won't be able to alter the course or the destiny of Russia Special Operation in Dombass and elsewhere.


----------



## Apollon

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510212188404912130



Since 4 weeks they finish off the last remnants.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510545369553330181

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## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> That is what UK News Media claimed?
> 
> Can anyone verified it?
> 
> The warzone around Kiev and many cities are basically flat and so Russian soldiers are using these APC and Tanks as shields in their encirclement.
> So they are sitting targets as the Russian order is to encircle and not attack.
> So one one gets close enough, even a RPG is good enough.
> 
> All these won't be able to alter the course or the destiny of Russia Special Operation in Dombass and elsewhere.



Their destiny is to become fertilizer on ukrainian fields. The west can deliver weapons faster than Russia can deliver cannon food. Its simple math. Now even in Lughansk russian helicopters are shot down by western manpads. Ukraine is saturated with advanced weapon systems. Its basicly poisoned for Putin.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510493652321193991Russian 'denazification'


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## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> Yeah sure, he sacrifced 15.000 soldiers, got thousands of tanks, almost 100 helicopters and dozens of jets destroyed...all to tie down ukraine army...which was not tied down and now hunts his troops even as they run away.
> 
> Its 5 weeks war now and he has not even got mariupol. Time to finish them off.
> 
> According to you he does not want mariupol either since it has not fallen.
> 
> He simply cant, his army is junk.
> 
> Did he plan losing 7 generals too?


Once again you are citing from sources that can't be verified.

Russia officially confirmed only approx 1,500 dead if I am not mistakened.

Even the UK News Media that published these allegations come with a disclaimer.

Some of the Generals have resurface and they were not evem there it seemed.
So are these guys invincible, it seemed sniper bullet can't killed them.

But it is true Russian Generals lead their army in battles unlike those from the US and West, in a safe sanctuary somewhere.

They called these sancturies command post.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510549307220443139

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> Their destiny is to become fertilizer on ukrainian fields. The west can deliver weapons faster than Russia can deliver cannon food. Its simple math. Now even in Lughansk russian helicopters are shot down by western manpads. Ukraine is saturated with advanced weapon systems. Its basicly poisoned for Putin.


You mean weapons from old Soviet era collected and donated by former SU nations?

Don't make us laugh. As I say let explore all these news with an open mind and filter them.

You are just looking for news that your mind is telling you.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507436962449395724


----------



## Ali_Baba

Oldman1 said:


> Need to take Melitopol and Berdiansk, split the enemy force in two. I've seen reports the Russians may blow up the bridge at Kherson city, so the Ukrainians may have to go around. But looking at the map some of the cities nearby Donbas region will be important in defense and offense against the Russian forces. Don't know what the status of the Russian forces from Kiev operation but they should be in shambles and morale really low, I wouldn't be surprise many would quit or desert.



Ukraine has taken the best of Russia's blow's and they are still standing. Can Russia take Ukraines blows? Especially with NATO and EU support of weapons and intelligence information? Russia's hasty withdrawal from the north and redeployment of their forces to the south suggests they are massively worried about the Ukrainian counter-attack and they run the risk of now losing Crimea and the Donbas regions if they don't reinforce those regions.

All of Ukraines actions have been tactical and centred around "holding the line". This war is now changing to the next stage of the war.

The west is now going to provide Tanks and more offensive weapons not because Russia has destroyed Ukraines - but because more Ukrainian men and women have now been trained and are now coming online and combined with offensive equipment like tanks and artillery, they can now take the fight to the Russian's directly rather than defending which has been what Ukraine has been doing since the start of this war.

You may now even see those Mig29s turn up as the direction of war has changed and they represent more value now than at the beginning as Russia is running out of precision/smart weapons.

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## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> You mean weapons from old Soviet era collected and donated by former SU nations?
> 
> Don't make us laugh. As I say let explore all these news with an open mind and filter them.
> 
> You are just looking for news that your mind is telling you.



StarStreak is quite modern. So is Javelin and MANPADS.
We slaughter the swine (old saying of churchill) before it can cause danger to Europe.

Ukraine is saturated with weapons now and flooded with more and more. Its poisoned for Russia.

Btw Russia admitted 9000 dead troops but deleted it within minutes.  Since Russia is always based on lies you can multiply by two or three.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> StarStreak is quite modern. So is Javelin and MANPADS.
> We slaughter the swine (old saying of churchill) before it can cause danger to Europe.
> 
> Ukraine is saturated with weapons now and flooded with more and more. Its poisoned for Russia.
> 
> Btw Russia admitted 9000 dead troops but deleted it within minutes.  Since Russia is always based on lies you can multiply by two or three.


Russia will be most delighted as they will now have an opportunity for close inspection. 
That is before they handed them to the Militia in Dombass.


----------



## KAL-EL

At a time like this, I wonder what our former Romanian resident would think.

Especially hailing from a country which was once home to the most powerful being on Earth


----------



## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Russia will be most delighted as they will now have an opportunity for close inspection.
> That is before they handed them to the Militia in Dombass.



Let them inspect, they get destroyed by it. .

On a sidenote i find it amusing that you believe its in european interest to let Russia take Ukraine. Its almost comical how Putins propaganda says its only UsA pushing us to be against it. 

No its not. Our interest it to neutralize Russia as a threat.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> StarStreak is quite modern. So is Javelin and MANPADS.
> We slaughter the swine (old saying of churchill) before it can cause danger to Europe.
> 
> Ukraine is saturated with weapons now and flooded with more and more. Its poisoned for Russia.
> 
> Btw Russia admitted 9000 dead troops but deleted it within minutes.  Since Russia is always based on lies you can multiply by two or three.


Russia admitted 9000 dead before they defeated it. But you claimed 15,000 earlier on. 

Now I am confused. 

Did Russia also claimed that they killed 100,000 enemy before they deleted it?


----------



## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Russia admitted 9000 dead before they defeated it. But you claimed 15,000 earlier on.
> 
> Now I am confused.
> 
> Did Russia also claimed that they killed 100,000 enemy before they deleted it?



Russia also denied anything happened in chernobyl. We see all the fertilized russian soldiers and we see russias chaotic escape.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> Let them inspect, they get destroyed by it. .
> 
> On a sidenote i find it amusing that you believe its in european interest to let Russia take Ukraine. Its almost comical how Putins propaganda says its only UsA pushing us to be against it.
> 
> No its not. Our interest it to neutralize Russia as a threat.


So you are the one who designed these Starstreak and have inserted bobby bombs inside them as an anti-tamper device.

Interesting.   

Shit! Today is not April 1 otherwise it will be April Fool.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510509884302934019


----------



## sammuel

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> But as I pointed out Kiev is never Russia main objective. It is basically to tie down the Ukrainian Army.



They lost a lot of Tanks and armored vehicles , for a " diversion " wouldn't you say ?

Anyway the Ukrainian army is not tied down any more and would likely head down south as well.

After all Ukrainians aged 18-60 got drafted , they will way outnumber the Russian forces. And unlike the Russian soldiers , the Ukrainians actually know what they are fighting for , i doubt you can say this about the Russians.

Would not want to be in Russians shoes ( or boots ) when all those newly arrived ATGM's would start flying around.

Hope Putin comes back to his senses and end this stupid war . There are some rumors that a meeting between him and Zelenski is more likely now , hope this is true.










Russia-Ukraine Peace Talks Have Advanced To Point Where Meeting Between Putin And Zelensky Is Possible, Ukrainian Negotiator Says


Russian negotiators have agreed to all of Ukraine’s positions, except for its stance on Crimea, David Arakhamia, Ukraine’s chief negotiator, reportedly said Saturday.




www.forbes.com

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510546944720003075

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510542461780824064

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510558516230115329

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## Apollon

EU says they will help investigate russian war crimes at Butcha and also even harder sanctions on russia are on the way.









Gegen Ratschlag von Top-Militärs: Ampel will Panzerhaubitzen 2000 an Ukraine liefern


Außenminister Sergej Lawrow bestätigt, dass Russland den Militäreinsatz nicht bis zum 9. Mai beenden wird. Selenskyi hinterfragt währenddessen die Kriegsstrategie Russlands und Nancy Pelosi hat sich in Kiew mit Wolodymyr Selenskyj getroffen. Alle Stimmen und Entwicklungen zum Ukraine-Krieg im...




www.focus.de


----------



## BHAN85

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509944592594001925
> Wali the Canadian sniper who was said to be killed multiple times by Russian sources (20 minutes after getting into battle in Mariupol lol) is well alive and even feeding himself with russian military MRE.


Knowing the level of Western nonsense lies, maybe he never left Canada and the photo was taken in his home.

Zero videos and photos about his incredible skills in combat.

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## Apollon

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510546944720003075
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510542461780824064



Yes, russian residents. Thats why its so important to push russians out of Europe. In Germany such russian propaganda is already banned and illegal, show a Z and you go prison for 5 years. More in EU will follow.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510522810271162374
It is the only oil refinery in Ukraine..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510511312824152064

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## Ali_Baba

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Russia will be most delighted as they will now have an opportunity for close inspection.
> That is before they handed them to the Militia in Dombass.



Russia is using Sony Camera's in their UAV's - that is the prowess of the Russian military industry complex - exactly what is Russia capable of learning and reusing?









Russia lagging behind in combat drone technologies and trying to hide it through information operations - InformNapalm.org (English)


In this analytical review, InformNapalm volunteer intelligence community offers our readers a brief analysis of Russian information operations around unmanned combat aerial vehicles (UCAV) amid Russia's chronic lag in these technologies.




informnapalm.org





China can and will learn alot from these systems for sure - but not Russia.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510522336331583488


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510553846329786368

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510515025043238913

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510549263176056837

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## jamahir

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510509884302934019



Time for Russia to secure Poland.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510546944720003075



Nice scenes.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510542461780824064



Apollon, I tell you about this earlier.



Apollon said:


> Yes, russian residents. Thats why its so important to push russians out of Europe. In Germany such russian propaganda is already banned and illegal, show a Z and you go prison for 5 years. More in EU will follow.



@Foinikas, what does he mean by Russian residents ? Is it just like him calling you and @Ich as "5th columnists" ?

And Apollon, I thought Western Europe had freedom of expression.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510547592945491970

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510510551042084866

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510569478513381378

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510541157020930051


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510384180919742472

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Foinikas

jamahir said:


> @Foinikas, what does he mean by Russian residents ? Is it just like him calling you and @Ich as "5th columnists" ?


Yeah,he talks about freedom and civilization and then wants to exterminate everyone else...

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510544850445291520

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## beijingwalker

The red army didn't fare very well in its war against Finland in early 1940's, which made Hitler believe that invading and conquering Russia would be like a walk in the park, and we all know what it turned out to him.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510538262531694594

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510538342466834432


----------



## Vergennes

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510510551042084866
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510569478513381378



Kadyrov deleted this post on his telegram.

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## Trango Towers

Do you think in future conflicts that the west fights...Will Russia supply critical equipment such as anti tank and anti aircraft missiles?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510381634176131074

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## CAPRICORN-88

sammuel said:


> They lost a lot of Tanks and armored vehicles , for a " diversion " wouldn't you say ?
> 
> Anyway the Ukrainian army is not tied down any more and would likely head down south as well.
> 
> After all Ukrainians aged 18-60 got drafted , they will way outnumber the Russian forces. And unlike the Russian soldiers , the Ukrainians actually know what they are fighting for , i doubt you can say this about the Russians.
> 
> Would not want to be in Russians shoes ( or boots ) when all those newly arrived ATGM's would start flying around.
> 
> Hope Putin comes back to his senses and end this stupid war . There are some rumors that a meeting between him and Zelenski is more likely now , hope this is true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine Peace Talks Have Advanced To Point Where Meeting Between Putin And Zelensky Is Possible, Ukrainian Negotiator Says
> 
> 
> Russian negotiators have agreed to all of Ukraine’s positions, except for its stance on Crimea, David Arakhamia, Ukraine’s chief negotiator, reportedly said Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com


And you believe all these articles. I do not until I can confirmed them thru related incidences. 

I would read all such news with a pinch of salt. These journalists are not military analysts but more in financial matters. 

The negotiation will offers some good hints and indication how the war is heading. But it does bot bothered us at all. 

Zalensky has to offers a lot concessions but Russia is still not accepting them. That put Russia in a position of strength. 

While all these negotiatlon is going on, the Ukrainian and AZOV is not getting any breathing air in Mariupol and Odessa.


----------



## jamahir

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510510551042084866



1. "War criminal Ramzan Kadyrov" ? As against what, the intellectual and revolutionary Bandera gang and Azov gang ?

2. And so what if the Chechens distributed Ukrainian produce to Ukrainian civilians ? After all the Ukranian military wasn't doing it.



Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510569478513381378



Ah, "The Bucha Massacre". About as non-context-giving as "The Hama Massacre" in Syria called so by BBC and co. Please follow the thread before posting because I have already replied on this here earlier today.

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510544850445291520




Nice to live in a country where people can demonstrate and voice their opinion , is it not ?






~

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## Wood

Vergennes said:


> Kadyrov deleted this post on his telegram.


I think this propaganda was posted in PDF as well. Was that post also deleted?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510536439733395456

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## Vergennes

So far Kadyrov's rats achievements ;

-Firing countless bullets and rockets on empty buildings
-Make tiktoks 
-Taking down Ukrainian flags
-Going through warzones with clean uniforms despite "weeks of heavy fighting"
-Kidnapping a goat to do only god knows what with
-Stealing grocieries from Ukrainian stores filming it with the caption "handing them humanitarian goods from Chechnya",so Russian trolls can masturbate. Amazing. Bombing them killing them and feeding them with the food you stole in their stores.

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## sammuel

beijingwalker said:


> The red army didn't fare very well in its war against Finland in early 1940's, which made Hitler believe that invading and conquering Russia would be like a walk in the park, and we all know what it turned out to him.



That's what happen when you fight on foreign land and the soldiers you face actually know what they are fighting for. Russians should have learned that lesson.

~


----------



## beijingwalker

sammuel said:


> That's what happen when you fight on foreign land and the soldiers actually know what they are fighting for. Russians should have learned that lesson.
> 
> ~


When Russia wiped out Nazi troops in Berlin, they were fighting in foreign land.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510375551546105862


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

sammuel said:


> Nice to live in a country where people can demonstrate and voice their opinion , is it not ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~




But but nobody can demonstrate against the little and "precious" IsraHell in NYC. There goes out of the window with your so-called "Nice to live in a country where people can demonstrate and voice their opinion". The Anti-Semitism card would be used against them, the police would be set on the demonstrators, and every politician in Murica would be calling those politicians any name in the book. Little and "precious" IsraHell controls Murica.

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## bobo6661

jamahir said:


> Time for Russia to secure Poland.


yes sure we will secure Kaliningrad for ourselves with how the russian army performs we will be in 1 week in moscow 



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> But but nobody can demonstrate against the little and "precious" IsraHell in NYC. There goes out of the window with your so-called "Nice to live in a country where people can demonstrate and voice their opinion". The Anti-Semitism card would be used against them, the police would be set on the demonstrators and every politician in Murica would be calling those politicians any name in the book. Little and "precious" IsraHell controls Murica.



yee shure

"Orthodox Jews Protest Against Israel In Washington"









Anadolu Agency


Anadolu Agency




www.aa.com.tr













Pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian protesters clash in New York City, leading to over two dozen arrests


An unknown individual threw two commercial fireworks into a crowd in midtown, around the area of the Diamond District.




www.cbsnews.com













Thousands of pro-Palestinian New Yorkers pack Midtown in protest against Israel


Small group of pro-Israel activists tussles with counter-demonstrators; police make several arrests at tense but mainly uneventful protest; rally backing Israel set for Wednesday




www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> Yes, russian residents. Thats why its so important to push russians out of Europe. In Germany such russian propaganda is already banned and illegal, show a Z and you go prison for 5 years. More in EU will follow.


Nothing can pushed Russia out now but IMO Russia will withdraw once the Eastern Provinces are secured and safe. 

Since Russia recognized them as independent states, Ukraine will have a hard time recovering them. 
They will be accorded protectorate nations of Russia. 

Zalensky who did not attend the Feb 8 peace summit to implement Minsk II was a major blunder. 

The Eastern Province were only asking for autonomous status and not independence them. Minsk II is an agreement with UN consent signed by warring parties.

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## jamahir

bobo6661 said:


> yes sure we will secure Kaliningrad for ourselves with how the russian army performs we will be in 1 week in moscow



LOL, good luck.


----------



## bobo6661

jamahir said:


> LOL, good luck.


Same for the nazi zz russians


----------



## jamahir

bobo6661 said:


> Same for the nazi zz russians



Wow, now the Russians are the Nazis ! So what is the Ukranian military then ? Communist revolutionaries fighting NATO ?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510374297654763525


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510577463843303430
Russian aircraft downed near izyum


----------



## bobo6661

jamahir said:


> Wow, now the Russians are the Nazis ! So what is the Ukranian military then ? Communist revolutionaries fighting NATO ?


Just a country trying to survive a foreign aggression...

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## NotSure

Trango Towers said:


> Do you think in future conflicts that the west fights...Will Russia supply critical equipment such as anti tank and anti aircraft missiles?


Of course. Also sat intelligence. Nato will pay in blood for the ukraine story.

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## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Nothing can pushed Russia out now but IMO Russia will withdraw once the Eastern Provinces are secured and safe.
> 
> Since Russia recognized them as independent states, Ukraine will have a hard time recovering them.
> They will be accorded protectorate nations of Russia.
> 
> Zalensky who did not attend the Feb 8 peace summit to implement Minsk II was a major blunder.
> 
> The Eastern Province were only asking for autonomous status and not independence them. Minsk II is an agreement with UN consent signed by warring parties.


Russia army is losing my friend. Vladimir will increase the means of terror, bombardment of population centers, starving Ukrainian women, children, babies. He will try everything to break Ukrainian resistance.

However that will not help him to win the war.

His last hope is the entry of China into the war.

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## jamahir

bobo6661 said:


> Just a country trying to survive a foreign aggression...



Yes, certainly not a country hosting Nazis elements in the military and general society. Certainly not a country which wants to host NATO WMD's against Russia.


----------



## Vergennes

Muhammed45 said:


> Stop talking about your parents Frenchy.



Keep worshipping your homosexual khomeini instead of replying to my posts.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Didn't Biden clumsily admitted the hidden agenda is Regime change in Russian?

What gives them the right?


----------



## Muhammed45

Vergennes said:


> Keep worshipping your homosexual khomeini instead of replying to my posts.


Sorry, we don't allow homosexuality in our country and our religion strongly opposes it. You are the ones famous for Euro Vision and LGBTQ rights. You have done Crack down on Yellow Vests, you are the true dictator ships of Europe. Bunch of liberal dogs of USA. Americans proudly say here and there, that French is their dogs. 

You insult my Muslim brothers, expect me to return the favor.

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## CAPRICORN-88

The regime change plot against IK failed as well. 

That is the flaw hidden inside the democracy promoted by the West.

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## Viet

jamahir said:


> Wow, now the Russians are the Nazis ! So what is the Ukranian military then ? Communist revolutionaries fighting NATO ?


Putin’s Russia uses the same language as Adolf Hitler.

Putin wants to take lands where Russian speaking people live, no matter where they are.

The same reason why Hitler annexed Austria, invaded Poland, Czech Republic.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Viet said:


> Russia army is losing my friend. Vladimir will increase the means of terror, bombardment of population centers, starving Ukrainian women, children, babies. He will try everything to break Ukrainian resistance.
> 
> However that will not help him to win the war.
> 
> His last hope is the entry of China into the war.


Only a Khmer Krom Southerner believe in such nonsense. 

The real Vietnamese to the North do not agree and are in fact hated by these descendents of the vanished Kampa Kingdom.

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## bobo6661

jamahir said:


> Yes, certainly not a country hosting Nazis elements in the military and general society. Certainly not a country which wants to host NATO WMD's against Russia.


Man every country got people like that and they just raise to more power because of russian agression of 2014 if county is in danger nacionalist rise at mass, and no leftist will fight for their country they will just flee... Im shure you will find many nazi lovers in india if you look ...






Indian MP 









India MP shocks with Hitler costume protest in parliament


Naramalli Sivaprasad said he was protesting against a "broken promise" by Prime Minister Narendra Modi.



www.bbc.com

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## CAPRICORN-88

Viet said:


> Putin’s Russia uses the same language as Adolf Hitler.
> 
> Putin wants to take lands where Russian speaking people live, no matter where they are.


Does Adolf Hitler speak Khmer Krom or Vietnamese?

Putin speaks German to Angela Merkel and Olaf. Is Angela Merkel or Olaf, Nazi?

Stop trolling.


----------



## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Only a Khmer Krom Southerner believe in such nonsense.
> 
> The real Vietnamese to the North do not agree and are in fact hated by these descendents of the vanished Kampa Kingdom.


I know what chinese think.
Xi does not want war.
However he is under pressure of chinese nationalist, extremists. They want war.
Also, Xi feels pressure from Russia. Putin needs chinese to join the war. A victory in Ukraine will erase the humiliation of China in Belgrad.

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## sammuel

beijingwalker said:


> When Russia wiped out Nazi troops in Berlin, they were fighting in foreign land.



Wow , really a bad example. It was Nazi Germany that invaded Russia not the other way around . Russians lost millions of people , many of them civilians that died of hunger cause the Germans stole their food.

You cant claim that The Russians did not know what they where fighting about in WW2 , it was not just about winning for the Russians , but also about revenge.

And by the time the Russians reached Berlin the German army was already finished.

~


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510122583487922178
GL for the post soviet republics like Azerbaijan Kyrgyzstan Tajikistan Turkmenistan Uzbekistan Kazakhstan


----------



## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> But but nobody can demonstrate against the little and "precious" IsraHell in NYC. There goes out of the window with your so-called "Nice to live in a country where people can demonstrate and voice their opinion". The Anti-Semitism card would be used against them, the police would be set on the demonstrators, and every politician in Murica would be calling those politicians any name in the book. Little and "precious" IsraHell controls Murica.




Do you live in some parallel universe ?

I wonder where you get your information from , if you try to sell such nonsense here.

Pro Palestinian demonstration in NYC :
















In Pictures: Global protests in solidarity with Palestinians


Large demonstrations held in chief cities around the world in condemnation of Israel’s actions.




www.aljazeera.com


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Keep the record straight.
In 2014 the NED funded the movement that overthrew a legitimately elected Ukrainian President by force.
He was then charged for treason based on fabricated evidence.

A united Ukraine including Eastern Provinces then elected Victor Yanukovych who was deemed as pro-Russia by NATO and the US. He was forced to flee to Moscow.

This was when the AZOV an ultra extremist neo-nazi group sponsored oversea came to power and started going to the East killing Russia speaking population of the Eastern Ukraine.

That is the begining of Nazism and facism in Ukraine. 2014.

EU and the West choose to close its eyes on the genocide happening there and 14,000 civilians were reported murdered then.

Regime Change as organised by the US and caught in a tape recording by US deputy Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and his colleagues.

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## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510577463843303430
> Russian aircraft downed near izyum



Su-30 or Su-34 ? I cannot tell.

Looks like it was carrying EW Jammers on the Wing-tips. Obvioulsy did not work!


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Time for Russia to secure Poland.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice scenes.
> 
> 
> 
> Apollon, I tell you about this earlier.
> 
> 
> 
> @Foinikas, what does he mean by Russian residents ? Is it just like him calling you and @Ich as "5th columnists" ?
> 
> And Apollon, I thought Western Europe had freedom of expression.



In Germany is a russian commubity. Same in Greece. And freedom ends where it touchs someone else freedom.


----------



## bobo6661

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Keep the record straight.
> In 2014 the NED funded the movement that overthrew a legitimately elected Ukrainian President by force.
> He was then charged for treason based on fabricated evidence.
> 
> A united Ukraine including Eastern Provinces then elected Victor Yanukovych who was deemed as pro-Russia by NATO and the US. He was forced to flee to Moscow.
> 
> This was when the AZOV an ultra extremist neo-nazi group sponsored oversea came to power and started going to the East killing Russia speaking population of the Eastern Ukraine.
> 
> That is the begining of Nazism and facism in Ukraine. 2014.
> 
> EU and the West choose to close its eyes on the genocide happening there and 14,000 civilians were reported murdered then.
> 
> Regime Change as organised by the US and caught in a tape recording by US deputy Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and his colleagues.


If russia didn't take over crimea there would be no azov ... and the regime change was just for few months they had like 2-3 elections already


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Ali_Baba said:


> Su-30 or Su-34 ? I cannot tell !
> 
> Looks like it was carrying EW Jammers on the Wing-tips. Obvioulsy did not work!


Yes. i similarly see nothing.


----------



## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Does Adolf Hitler speak Khmer Krom or Vietnamese?
> 
> Putin speaks German to Angela Merkel and Olaf. Is Angela Merkel or Olaf, Nazi?
> 
> Stop trolling.


My friend, Putin speaks German. He knows very well Germany.
Russia territorial expansion and civilization today goes back to Katharina the great. She was German princess becoming later the empress of Russia.
If Putin claims Ukraine was founded by Russians, then Germany can claim Russia.

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## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Nothing can pushed Russia out now but IMO Russia will withdraw once the Eastern Provinces are secured and safe.
> 
> Since Russia recognized them as independent states, Ukraine will have a hard time recovering them.
> They will be accorded protectorate nations of Russia.
> 
> Zalensky who did not attend the Feb 8 peace summit to implement Minsk II was a major blunder.
> 
> The Eastern Province were only asking for autonomous status and not independence them. Minsk II is an agreement with UN consent signed by warring parties.



Hitler got pushed out, so will Putin. Just kill them on sight like around Kyev. Crush them where they appear and give them no break. It looks good right now.



CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Does Adolf Hitler speak Khmer Krom or Vietnamese?
> 
> Putin speaks German to Angela Merkel and Olaf. Is Angela Merkel or Olaf, Nazi?
> 
> Stop trolling.



Its not about German. Im half German. Its about same wording that Putin uses to do his wars. Same philosophy.

P s. merkel is no nazi, just a weak minded and naive fool.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

bobo6661 said:


> If russia didn't take over crimea there would be no azov ... and the regime change was just for few months they had like 2-3 elections already


Crimea was the results of a number of things including the genocide of AZOV in Dombass, Lugansk but also have to do with geopolitics. Russia leased naval military port is there and she will never allowed a pro-NATO or US Ukraine to use it to block Russia Black Sea fleet. 
Will the US or UK allowed that. So it is meaningless as it involved Russia National Security.

As for Crimea joining Russia. 
Crimea joined Ukraine by a vote of referendum back in 1990 but historically was never a part of Ukraine. 

This time they hold another referendum and they decide overwhelming to join Russia. 

IMO Nothing is wrong in here. 

Theh join Ukraine by referendum and now joined Russia also by referendum.
Majority of the people voted Yes.

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## jamahir

Viet said:


> Putin’s Russia uses the same language as Adolf Hitler.
> 
> Putin wants to take lands where Russian speaking people live, no matter where they are.
> 
> The same reason why Hitler annexed Austria, invaded Poland, Czech Republic.



You didn't address the second and third sentences in my post. 



bobo6661 said:


> Man every country got people like that and they just raise to more power because of russian agression of 2014 if county is in danger nacionalist rise at mass, and no leftist will fight for their country they will just flee... Im shure you will find many nazi lovers in india if you look ...
> 
> View attachment 830055
> 
> Indian MP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India MP shocks with Hitler costume protest in parliament
> 
> 
> Naramalli Sivaprasad said he was protesting against a "broken promise" by Prime Minister Narendra Modi.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com



You should have read the article properly. The man in the picture is no Nazi lover. I quote :


> "What I am doing will grab attention quickly. It will make people think," he told BBC Telugu's Ravisankar Lingutla.
> 
> A former actor, Mr Sivaprasad is an MP from the southern state of Andhra Pradesh. He belongs to the state's ruling Telugu Desam Party (TDP).


In another picture he is wearing a sari, a female dress in the Indian Subcontinent. Does it mean he wants to be a female ?

But yes, there are many actual Hitler admirers in India and they are the Hindutvadis. The party in power at the center in India, BJP, takes its root from the Nazi-inspired movement RSS. The BJP also doesn't like leftists like you. It calls them "anti-nationals". I am a leftist, a Communist , and am a light year concerned for India than these anti-leftist Hindutvadis. As a Communist I find India's enemies more within the country than outside. More than 300 million of them at least. These are the right-wingers, including the Hindutvadis.



Apollon said:


> In Germany is a russian commubity. Same in Greece. And freedom ends where it touchs someone else freedom.



Then go ask from the North Koreans to the Libyans to Venezuelans to many others who got imperialized by NATO 1950 onwards, whose freedom got taken away.


----------



## Vergennes

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Crimea was the results of a number of things including the genocide of AZOV in Dombass, Lugansk but also have to do with geopolitics. Russia leased naval military port is there and she will never allowed a pro-NATO or US Ukraine to use it to block Russia Black Sea fleet.



Azov didn't even exist when Russia illegally annexed Crimea,lol.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Viet said:


> My friend, Putin speaks German. He knows very well Germany.
> Russia territorial expansion and civilization today goes back to Katharina the great. She was German princess becoming later the empress of Russia.
> If Putin claims Ukraine was founded by Russians, then Germany can claim Russia.
> 
> 
> View attachment 830060


She can in fact joined Russia as a single nation if she wished to. Why didn't Germany joined Russia then?

The problem is your half baked knowedge of Western heritage. But I don't wish to digress from this thresd about Ukraine. 

But do be careful China may reannexed Vietnam it becomes thorn by her side. 
Historically it was indeed a part of China called Annam. The French stole it and then gave Independence to Annamese.

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## bobo6661

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Crimea was the results of a number of things including the genocide of AZOV in Dombass, Lugansk but also have to do with geopolitics. Russia leased naval military port is there and she will never allowed a pro-NATO or US Ukraine to use it to block Russia Black Sea fleet.
> Will the US or UK allowed that. So it is meaningless as it involved Russia National Security.
> 
> As for Crimea joining Russia.
> Crimea joined Ukraine by a vote of referendum back in 1990 but historically was never a part of Ukraine.
> 
> This time they hold another referendum and they decide overwhelming to join Russia.
> 
> IMO Nothing is wrong in here.
> 
> Theh join Ukraine by referendum and now joined Russia also by referendum.
> Majority of the people voted Yes.



Oh god like man Crimea happen before donbass 😂 get your facts straight ...









Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org






Military operation: 20 February[note 1] – 26 March 2014[6] (1 month and 6 days)
Annexation: 18 March 2014





__





War in Donbas - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





6 April 2014[4] – present

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> You didn't address the second and third sentences in my post.
> 
> 
> 
> You should have read the article properly. The man in the picture is no Nazi lover. I quote :
> 
> In another picture he is wearing a sari, a female dress in the Indian Subcontinent. Does it mean he wants to be a female ?
> 
> But yes, there are many actual Hitler admirers in India and they are the Hindutvadis. The party in power at the center in India, BJP, takes its root from the Nazi-inspired movement RSS. The BJP also doesn't like leftists like you. It calls them "anti-nationals". I am a leftist, a Communist , and am a light year concerned for India than these anti-leftist Hindutvadis. As a Communist I found India's enemies more within the country than outside. More than 300 million of them at least. These are the right-wingers, including the Hindutvadis.
> 
> 
> 
> Then go ask from the North Koreans to the Libyans to Venezuelans to many others who got imperialized by NATO 1950 onwards, whose freedom got taken away.



I dont care about countries outside Europe. Ukraine is Europe. We will always support them. 

Remember Putlers speech in february that Ukraine is not a real country and part of Russia? Apparantly Ukraine already proved to be a real country in 80% of its area and its immune system flushed out russian cancer cells. 

Putin lost west and middle Ukraine forever. Now its time to get rid of the cancer in the east. That the west changes the supplied weaponsystems from defense to offence shows what up next.


----------



## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509984564638322689 🤮 . What Stinkapore MIWs been supporting Ukraine to continue with their FINAL SOLUTION.


----------



## bobo6661

jamahir said:


> You should have read the article properly. The man in the picture is no Nazi lover. I quote :


man i know my point you will find many retards in india as in ukraine now go buy some cloths in your Hiltler shop





and have some ice cream on your way


----------



## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> She can in fact joined Russia as a single nation if she wished to. Why didn't Germany joined Russia then?
> 
> The problem is your half baked knowedge of Western heritage. But I don't wish to digress from this thresd about Ukraine.
> 
> But do be careful China may reannexed Vietnam it becomes thorn by her side.
> Historically it was indeed a part of China called Annam. The French stole it and then gave Independence to Annamese.



You have no clue...

Germany, Prussia was an extreme strong powerful military. Katharina the Great was German but had zero intentions to merge Germany with Russia. What she did was to bring in many German settlers.


----------



## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498491107902062592 🤮 What Stinkapore MIWs been supporting Ukraine to continue with their FINAL SOLUTION. And sanctioning Russia for trying to stop those neo nazis


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Vergennes said:


> Azov didn't even exist when Russia illegally annexed Crimea,lol.


The founder was among the usurpers of power in Kiev. The formation was there and intensified by President Poroshenko.

The nazification campaign first got started in Kiev then pushed eastward.

They were trying to destroy former Victor pro-Russian support base.

It was already happening in Ukraine and intensified as it reached the Dombass, and other Eastern Province.


----------



## DF41

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Regime Change as organised by the US and caught in a tape recording by US deputy Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and his colleagues.






  Nothing like getting caught on audio deciding who gets to form another country's government 🥁 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call


----------



## BHAN85

DF41 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509984564638322689 🤮 . What Stinkapore MIWs been supporting Ukraine to continue with their FINAL SOLUTION.


Fascinating is American thinking rest of the world care about their political tv show circus.

They live in a fantasy lies land, they even dont know who the hell rules their country, who decides wars, they know nothing about the people who really rule the country, and they publish their endless shit without stop to the rest of the world.

Well I will say one simple thing about biowarfare ukrainian labs, I dont know if it exists, but if it exists exactly when they think to use it if they are already in the middle of a war.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> You have no clue...
> 
> Germany, Prussia was an extreme strong powerful military. Katharina the Great was German but had zero intentions to merge Germany with Russia. What she did was to bring in many German settlers.


So you are a reincarnated Tzar and so you knew those connections very well, right. 

BTW the late Prince Philip was a Greek.

How did you ended up in a Greek body? A case of mistaken or confused state of mind of a lost soul, right.


----------



## Apollon

Two russian tanks destroyed by STUGNA P


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510590517280714762

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> I dont care about countries outside Europe. Ukraine is Europe. We will always support them.



Didn't you speak before of the superiority of Roman empire with regards to the rights of the female human ? Now you dismiss the rights of humans in general.



Apollon said:


> Remember Putlers speech in february that Ukraine is not a real country and part of Russia? Apparantly Ukraine already proved to be a real country in 80% of its area and its immune system flushed out russian cancer cells.
> 
> Putin lost west and middle Ukraine forever. Now its time to get rid of the cancer in the east. That the west changes the supplied weaponsystems from defense to offence shows what up next.



1. How will Zelensky's Nazis convince the east ? By bombarding them again ?

2. Will Russia allow the east to fall to Zelensky's Nazis ?

3. What will the Ukranian civilians think of Zelensky and his military who shot at them while the civilians were fleeing, who terrorized the civilians by firing at Russians from civilian facilities and who left the civilians to starve while the Russians delivered emergency supplies ?



bobo6661 said:


> man i know my point you will find many retards in india as in ukraine now go buy some cloths in your Hiltler shop
> View attachment 830069



Why would I a Communist Muslim buy clothes from a Hindutvadi Nazi admirer ?


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

DF41 said:


> Nothing like getting caught on audio deciding who gets to form another country's government 🥁 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call


Thanks i have lost the link to another similar video. Removed by YT.

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## bobo6661

jamahir said:


> Why would I a Communist Muslim buy clothes from a Hindutvadi Nazi admirer ?


ah so you guys got some nazi problems there i see, guess russia needs to denazify you to


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Didn't you speak before of the superiority of Roman empire with regards to the rights of the female human ? Now you dismiss the rights of humans in general.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. How will Zelensky's Nazis convince the east ? By bombarding them again ?
> 
> 2. Will Russia allow the east to fall to Zelensky's Nazis ?
> 
> 3. What will the Ukranian civilians think of Zelensky and his military who shot at them while the civilians were fleeing, who terrorized the civilians by firing at Russians from civilian facilities and who left the civilians to starve while the Russians delivered emergency supplies ?
> 
> 
> 
> Why would I a Communist Muslim buy clothes from a Hindutvadi Nazi admirer ?



1. Glad you agree that Russia already lost 80% of Ukraine forever and Putin gave up on it, now tries to hold the little he got. 

2. I dismiss nothing. I said i dont care whats outside Europe. Not our business as long it doesnt bother us.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510556252019073027

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510560105355354113^ I wonder if there is actually anything authentic about Kadyrov's orcs.

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## Apollon

After discovery of massive russian war crimes, Germany announces even harsher sanctions on russia and more weapons for Ukraine. 









Ukraine-Krieg: Scholz wirft Russland „Kriegsverbrechen“ vor und kündigt weitere Sanktionen an - WELT


Nach dem Fund zahlreicher Leichen im Kiewer Vorort Butscha werden Russland Kriegsverbrechen vorgeworfen. Als Reaktion sollen laut Kanzler Olaf Scholz neue Sanktionen gegen Russland folgen. Verteidigungsministerin Lambrecht bringt einen Stopp von russischen Gaslieferungen ins Spiel.




www.welt.de


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> Two russian tanks destroyed by STUGNA P


Sure they are Russian tanks. I saw nothing. 

So we have to take his word for this short clips. 

Your belief takes you to what you want to see but we saw nothing. Only blurred images. Was Putin inside the tank as well?


----------



## ahtan_china



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## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Sure they are Russian tanks. I saw nothing.
> 
> So we have to take his word for this short clips.
> 
> Your belief takes you to what you want to see but we saw nothing. Only blurred images. Was Putin inside the tank as well?



We see a complete withdraw of russians in north, west Ukraine. They flee and get beaten on their way out. How you explain this situation? Also part of putins plan?

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## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> After discovery of massive russian war crimes, Germany announces even harsher sanctions on russia and more weapons for Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine-Krieg: Scholz wirft Russland „Kriegsverbrechen“ vor und kündigt weitere Sanktionen an - WELT
> 
> 
> Nach dem Fund zahlreicher Leichen im Kiewer Vorort Butscha werden Russland Kriegsverbrechen vorgeworfen. Als Reaktion sollen laut Kanzler Olaf Scholz neue Sanktionen gegen Russland folgen. Verteidigungsministerin Lambrecht bringt einen Stopp von russischen Gaslieferungen ins Spiel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.welt.de


And they did not even bother to submit their so-called evidences to UN but instead propagate them as war crimes. 

I do not know which side is guilty of war crimes? But you are so certain. 

You should joined the AZOV. Are they your hero or bro in arm or warcrime?



Apollon said:


> We see a complete withdraw of russians in north, west Ukraine. They flee and get beaten on their way out. How you explain this situation? Also part of putins plan?


When the Chinese withdraw as scheduled after one peaceful month there, the Vietnam said the same thing.

i laughed then. You make me laugh again. 

Does loser all behave like that? Beat me.

Russia is bound to withdraw as Kiev and the West is not their main military objectives. They should witjdrawn after serving their purpose there, get it.


----------



## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> And they did not even bother to submit their so-called evidences to UN but instead propagate them as war crimes.
> 
> I do not know which side is guilty of war crimes? But you are so certain.
> 
> You should joined the AZOV. Are they your hero or bro in arm or warcrime?



In butcha were 350 dead civilians found. Women, children, elderly people. Some lay on streets, others in wells and cars. Their hands bound and executed.

Its obvious that a horrendous crime happened there. 48h ago the town was still in russian hands. In the areas freed from russian presence are unspeakable crimes visible. Experts are already there for investigation. 





__





ZEIT ONLINE | Lesen Sie zeit.de mit Werbung oder im PUR-Abo. Sie haben die Wahl.







www.zeit.de


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> 1. Glad you agree that Russia already lost 80% of Ukraine forever and Putin gave up on it, now tries to hold the little he got.
> 
> 2. I dismiss nothing. I said i dont care whats outside Europe. Not our business as long it doesnt bother us.


  

You talk as if Russia owns Ukraine. 
They are there for the denazification of Ukraine for one.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510590517280714762



Possibly a Su35S given the EW pods on the wings then - I would surprised if the Su-27s had the pods - I wonder if it is another Star streak kill..

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## coffee_cup

*The beauty blogger Marianna Wischegirskaja who was shown in AP reports (witnessed by AP reporters) as one of the pregnant women in now famous air raid on a maternity hospital in Mauriopol has now emerged and just given interview to Russian blogger Denis Seleznew . 

She says she knows nothing about the Air raid on the hospital and was surprised to read about it.*

===
Man, we all agree that wars are terrible and should always be stopped, but the fake news and propaganda must also not be allowed!

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510590517280714762

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510587336417226757

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510595417242624016


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510610926940176394

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## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> You talk as if Russia owns Ukraine.
> They are there for the denazification of Ukraine for one.



You are not briefed with actual kremlin propaganda. Since they got kicked in the *** "denazification" is not on kremlins table any longer.

It was their buzz word for regime change and Installation of a muppet regime. This plan failed. 





__





Subscribe to read | Financial Times


News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




www.ft.com





Russia no longer requesting Ukraine be ‘denazified’ as part of ceasefire talks



Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510610926940176394



Very good data to hold them accountable and to identify their families. 

Ukraine already uses face recognition to identify dead russian troops. Now can send pictures to their families so they at least know what happened to their family member.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510583685908680708

Russian losses are now visually verified at over 2,300.


----------



## LeGenD

Ukrainian MiG-29 Pilot's Front-Line Account Of The Air War Against Russia


A MiG-29 pilot talks tactics and tribulations in the desperate fight to keep Ukraine’s skies free from Russian domination.




www.thedrive.com





Ukrainian Air Force have survived in some form, and supporting ground forces.

Ukrainian pilots admit that Russian Aerospace Forces (VKS) is vastly superior and operating in nighttime conditions. There is also a significant threat of Russian A2/AD assets in the region.

How Ukrainian pilots are conducting missions in the face of such overwhelming odds is a mystery in itself - really impressive.

The pilot (JUICE) mentioned - if WE had F-15s.... Poor man.

He also admitted that many Ukrainians were not expecting a major Russian assault - the LACK of ALERT resulted in significant losses.

This war will provide lot of stories and lessons in time.

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## Paul2

I noticed a very weird tendency.

Russian offensives always cease on weekends. Literally 0 offensive moves besides usual air/missile strikes.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> In butcha were 350 dead civilians found. Women, children, elderly people. Some lay on streets, others in wells and cars. Their hands bound and executed.
> 
> Its obvious that a horrendous crime happened there. 48h ago the town was still in russian hands. In the areas freed from russian presence are unspeakable crimes visible. Experts are already there for investigation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ZEIT ONLINE | Lesen Sie zeit.de mit Werbung oder im PUR-Abo. Sie haben die Wahl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.zeit.de


So who shot them. AzOV or Ukrainian Military? The truth is: We don't know.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510622262399057929^ judge for youself...


----------



## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> So who shot them. AzOV or Ukrainian Military? The truth is: We don't know.



We do know. Survivors records. We also know that its always russian tactic to do this when losing. Some survivors said the murders only stopped when russians had to flee. 

EU already send investigators.

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## jhungary

LeGenD said:


> Ukrainian MiG-29 Pilot's Front-Line Account Of The Air War Against Russia
> 
> 
> A MiG-29 pilot talks tactics and tribulations in the desperate fight to keep Ukraine’s skies free from Russian domination.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian Air Force have survived in some form, and supporting ground forces.
> 
> Ukrainian pilots admit that Russian Aerospace Forces (VKS) is vastly superior and operating in nighttime conditions. There is also a significant threat of Russian A2/AD assets in the region.
> 
> How Ukrainian pilots are conducting missions in the face of such overwhelming odds is a mystery in itself - really impressive.
> 
> The pilot (JUICE) mentioned - if WE had F-15s.... Poor man.
> 
> He also admitted that many Ukrainians were not expecting a major Russian assault - the LACK of ALERT resulted in significant losses.
> 
> This war will provide lot of stories and lessons in time.


Think of this like Japan attack Pearl Harbor back in 1941.

Japan would have bomb almost all major airfield and render them useless for a certain period of time, but even Hawaii are too big for the Japanese Naval Task Force to completely denied the American uses of Air Power. Bear in mind that is a decapitation strike, which was aimed to annihilate the US Naval and Air Power in the region.

The take away is, Ukraine is just too big for Russia to subdue. There are going to be airfield somewhere in Ukraine that is operational, that said Ukrainian Air Force on a conventional scale had lost around 50% of their combat power (From an intel document I have saw a few weeks ago) 

Russia cannot maintain the momentum to denied the use of Ukrainian Air Force, there are just too much hostile ground to cover and the Russian lost a great deal of Air Power in doing so as well, which is the main reason as to why Russia still does not have full control over Ukrainian Sky over 40 days of war.

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## CAPRICORN-88

coffee_cup said:


> *The beauty blogger Marianna Wischegirskaja who was shown in AP reports (witnessed by AP reporters) as one of the pregnant women in now famous air raid on a maternity hospital in Mauriopol has now emerged and just given interview to Russian blogger Denis Seleznew .
> 
> She says she knows nothing about the Air raid on the hospital and was surprised to read about it.*
> 
> ===
> Man, we all agree that wars are terrible and should always be stopped, but the fake news and propaganda must also not be allowed!


That is why we must be careful when reading or watching news from these biased New Media.

As Euronews pointed out, many of the video and news later turned out to be fake. They are getting very skeptical over such widely circulated reports themselves.


----------



## Apollon

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510622262399057929^ judge for youself...



Kadyrovs orcs fight a ficus benjamina.


----------



## Messerschmitt

Apollon said:


> Kadyrovs orcs fight a ficus benjamina.


There might be Ukraianian Nazis hiding among civilians in it.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> We do know. Survivors records. We also know that its always russian tactic to do this when losing. Some survivors said the murders only stopped when russians had to flee.
> 
> EU already send investigators.


Stop the BS and trolling.

EU in fact according to reports have found evidences of warcrimes by AZOV.
So stop twisting the facts around.

It seem mass graves have been located. Seriously I don't know if it is true.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510536953149722626

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## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> So the BS and trolling.
> 
> EU in fact according to reports have found evidences of warcrimes by AZOV.
> So stop twisting the facts around.
> 
> It seem mass graves have been located. Seriously I don't know if it is true.



Stop your rubbish propaganda 

EU knows full well russia did it and will slam more sanctions on russia, deliver more weapons to Ukraine. 

Here right from german foreign minister 



Redirect Notice


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> Stop your rubbish propaganda
> 
> EU knows full well russia did it and will slam more sanctions on russia, deliver more weapons to Ukraine.
> 
> Here right from german foreign minister
> 
> 
> 
> Redirect Notice


Can he prove it?

Biden called Putin a butcher.

That is just their personal opinion and allegation. 

Politicians say the darndest thing.

We need evidences not empty words.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510626306844729348

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510627099119337477

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> Stop your rubbish propaganda
> 
> EU knows full well russia did it and will slam more sanctions on russia, deliver more weapons to Ukraine.
> 
> Here right from german foreign minister
> 
> 
> 
> Redirect Notice


Why are you so adamant in demonizing another race and not your own?

Are you a racist?


----------



## bobo6661

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510536953149722626


Thats a dumb move but we are on the first to nuke anyway so who cares , those morons in our goverment should invest in our own nukes and metods to deliver it not be a storage for some 3rd country...


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

IMO most of the video posted in here cannot be corroborated.

I just wondered how did the Ukrainians took those aerial pictures? 

With their old Soviet era warplanes. Are they still flying?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510610020622340101


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

bobo6661 said:


> Thats a dumb move but we are on the first to nuke anyway so who cares , those morons in our goverment should invest in our own nukes and metods to deliver it not be a storage for some 3rd country...


To me, it is just another fake news as this Polish Minister has been trying to land nuclear weapons on Poland since 2015 but he got rejected. 

Cannot be verified.


----------



## sammuel

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> You talk as if Russia owns Ukraine.
> They are there for the denazification of Ukraine for one.



So i take it the Gave up on " denazification " of Kiev. No " Nazis " in Kiev ?


~


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510581404987539462

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## CAPRICORN-88

sammuel said:


> So i take it the Gave up on " denazification " of Kiev. No " Nazis " in Kiev ?
> 
> 
> ~


You need to be in Dombass to understand, I am told.
Don't tell it to a jewish survivor of German Nazi holocaust.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510587311226032133


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

So another Azov misdeeds in East Ukraine turned up as Russian misdeeds.

Is it? Seriously none of us know. We see allegation of a dog carcass and the Russia gets the blame.


----------



## bobo6661

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> To me, it is just another fake news as this Polish Minister has been trying to land nuclear weapons on Poland since 2015 but he got rejected.
> 
> Cannot be verified.


man stop you post so many incorect info that its not even worth to talk with you 

And yes he did say it but it was a interview for Welt am Sonntag can give you a link to polish paper but doubt you will understand anything 









Kaczyński dla "Welt am Sonntag": Jestem bardzo niezadowolony z zachowania niemieckiego rządu


Niemcy, podobnie jak Francja, mają silną skłonność do Moskwy - powiedział w wywiadzie dla niemieckiej gazety "Welt am Sonntag" Jarosław Kaczyński. Jak dodał polski wicepremier, jego zdaniem rząd niemiecki „przez lata nie chciał widzieć, co robi Rosja pod przywództwem Putina”.




www.rmf24.pl





Poland could adopt nuclear weapons?​Jarosław Kaczyński also declared that Poland was open to the proposal to deploy nuclear weapons in the country. As he assured, Poland may agree to participate in the NATO nuclear weapons sharing program, *provided that it is proposed by the United States.*

This program provides for the provision of nuclear warheads to NATO members. In the event of war, the attacked countries could use them, *but only with the consent of the United States. *Nuclear sharing now covers Belgium, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Turkey.

Two years ago, during the reign of Donald Trump, *the American ambassador to Warsaw, Georgette Mosbacher, said that if Germany wanted to withdraw from participating in this program, the heads could go to Poland. * In an interview for the German newspaper, Jarosław Kaczyński says that such storage of nuclear weapons in Poland could effectively scare Russia away. 

The deputy prime minister for security mentioned participation in "Nuclear sharing" a few days ago in an interview for "Gazeta Polska", judging that it is still unrealistic. _As a citizen, I can say that I would like Poland to have nuclear weapons. As a responsible politician, I must assess this idea as unrealistic_ - he said.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510615612275494918


----------



## thetutle

mazeto said:


> NATO countries have their mutual defense treaty to back up each other, hence Russia is bearing their weapons delivery stoically.
> What if Russia sends a conventional ICBM into Australia as a retaliation for the above? I suspect nobody is going to retaliate on behalf of Australia..


You have no idea do you? Yes let them send a conventional ICBM at australia, see how that work out for him. Trey reading about ANZUS treaty. Its a guarantee as strong as NATO. It would be safer if russia attacks Baltics than to attack Australia.



mazeto said:


> I said conventional ICBM.
> I am sure Russia will avoid the US troops.
> It will be to make a political point, deter the others and also advertise it's prowess.
> Australia is out of it's league here, and becoming more loyal than the emperor himself 😀



Australia has crise missiles, F-35's, AWACS, growlers, soon will have nuclear submarines (but not nukes) that could sink the Russian navy. I dont think Russia has a chance against australia. Its an island in the middle of nowhere and Russias navy and airforce would get demolished if they came even close.


----------



## Vergennes

the pilot was captured alive


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510635863050498049


----------



## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Can he prove it?
> 
> Biden called Putin a butcher.
> 
> That is just their personal opinion and allegation.
> 
> Politicians say the darndest thing.
> 
> We need evidences not empty words.



Its a women. Guess the very fact that a foreign minister is female is too much for you to endure. 

We have evidence. Enough evidence to send more weapons to Ukraine and more sanctions on russia.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

bobo6661 said:


> man stop you post so many incorect info that its not even worth to talk with you
> 
> And yes he did say it but it was a interview for Welt am Sonntag can give you a link to polish paper but doubt you will understand anything
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kaczyński dla "Welt am Sonntag": Jestem bardzo niezadowolony z zachowania niemieckiego rządu
> 
> 
> Niemcy, podobnie jak Francja, mają silną skłonność do Moskwy - powiedział w wywiadzie dla niemieckiej gazety "Welt am Sonntag" Jarosław Kaczyński. Jak dodał polski wicepremier, jego zdaniem rząd niemiecki „przez lata nie chciał widzieć, co robi Rosja pod przywództwem Putina”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rmf24.pl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​


According to the latest UN figures 1,081 civilians have been confirmed killed since the Russian invasion began nearly four weeks ago, although it said the death toll is much higher.

A mass grave was found in Mariupol, with the head of the UN human rights monitoring mission in Ukraine Matilda Bogner saying a team was carrying out assessments.

“One mass grave we’ve been able to get satellite information on, and we estimate that one of those graves holds about 200 people,” she said.

The UN said it was also investigating alleged indiscriminate shelling in Donetsk by the Ukrainian Armed Forces and the beating of those perceived to be pro-Russian by the police


----------



## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Why are you so adamant in demonizing another race and not your own?
> 
> Are you a racist?



Russians are same race as we are. You claim now im racist against myself? Dude get real.


----------



## Vergennes

A carnage



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510630894549229575

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510613381505601541


----------



## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> IMO most of the video posted in here cannot be corroborated.
> 
> I just wondered how did the Ukrainians took those aerial pictures?
> 
> With their old Soviet era warplanes. Are they still flying?



Drones, ever heared of them?

As for war planes, Russia still has no air superiority over Ukraine and Ukraine still has aircrafts operating. Even helicopters and jets. The footage is done with drones though


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Seriously, if RuAF cannot handle a few Mig-29 and a few Su-27 with some outdated SAM, what do you think when Australia bring Patriot missile, F-35 and Growler onto the table?


Australia doesn't operate the Patriot missile defence. Thats the Americans using their own in australia. Australia has a custom built system built by Boeing.


----------



## Apollon

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510581404987539462



@CAPRICORN-88 you support those crimes?


----------



## gambit

Apollon said:


> Yeah sure, he sacrifced 15.000 soldiers, got thousands of tanks, almost 100 helicopters and dozens of jets destroyed...all to tie down ukraine army...which was not tied down and now hunts his troops even as they run away.
> 
> Its 5 weeks war now and he has not even got mariupol. Time to finish them off.
> 
> According to you he does not want mariupol either since it has not fallen.
> 
> He simply cant, his army is junk.
> 
> Did he plan losing 7 generals too?


Just on this alone, if this was how Poutine planned to 'tie down' the Ukrainian Army, Poutine should be court martialed then shot. Reading the Russia supporters here trying to salvage face for Russia, you really want their countries' military leaderships to be filled with people like them.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Jarosław Kaczyński has been trying to convince the US to station nuclear weapon in Poland since 2015 and was rejected by the Polish Government back in 2016.

Thia hawkish deputy PM is trying hard again today and is oblivious to the consequences. 

Will the US agree to it?

A real Cuban Missile Crisis will be in the making then and it is reckless and nonsensical nationalistic character like yourself that created a situation that surely endangered Europe and the while world today. 





Apollon said:


> @CAPRICORN-88 you support those crimes?


Can you prove to me that it is indeed the Russian who did that? 

More like the handiwork of Neo-nazi terrorists who you support.

I only see victims. 
Are they actors? 

Zalensky is na actor and staging a propaganda is no big deal for him and his team.


----------



## Apollon

gambit said:


> Just on this alone, if this was how Poutine planned to 'tie down' the Ukrainian Army, Poutine should be court martialed then shot. Reading the Russia supporters here trying to salvage face for Russia, you really want their countries' military leaderships to be filled with people like them.



Putin supporters now even support the war crimes that are uncovered in the areas now cleaned from russian presence. They have no shame. The things we see in Bucha are like stuff last seen in Europe in 1945. And @CAPRICORN-88 applauds it. Sickening


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Australia doesn't operate the Patriot missile defence. Thats the Americans using their own in australia. Australia has a custom built system built by Boeing.


noted


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

This war is indeed very educational seeing all the unfounded angers and emotion by people over events that does not even concerned them. 

Ukrainian needs humanitarian supports not more weapons to kill each others.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

LNR soldiers. truly cannon fodder


----------



## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> This war is indeed very educational seeing all the unfounded angers and emotion by people over events that does not even concerned them.
> 
> Ukrainian needs humanitarian supports not more weapons to kill each others.



We send both. Humaniterian support for Ukraine and weapons to destroy russian army. Now we also have to send teams to note all the russian war crimes


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> Putin supporters now even support the war crimes that are uncovered in the areas now cleaned from russian presence. They have no shame. The things we see in Bucha are like stuff last seen in Europe in 1945. And @CAPRICORN-88 applauds it. Sickening


You are getting personal because you are running out of steam and reason to support the demonization of another race and a nation. 

Are you a racist? 

All we required from you is evidences of your allegations and not blind partisan support for one side. It does not concerned me but I only see fake news, nuances and manipulated video clips. 

Show me one that can be verified. 

Whether it is a Ukrainian or a Russia victory, is a matter of days or weeks ahead. I can waited and see and seriously I don't care who wins.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510550992827432965


----------



## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> You are getting personal because you are running out of steam and reason to support the demonization of another race and a nation.
> 
> Are you a racist?
> 
> All we required from you is evidences of your allegations and not blind partisan support for one side. It does not concerned me but I only see fake news, nuances and manipulated video clips.
> 
> Show me one that can be verified.
> 
> Whether it is a Ukrainian or a Russia victory, is a matter of days or weeks ahead. I can waited and see and seriously I don't care who wins.



You laugh about massacres on women and children. Youngest victims in Bucha are said to be 6 years old.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> We send both. Humaniterian support for Ukraine and weapons to destroy russian army. Now we also have to send teams to note all the russian war crimes


Where and when? And who are the we? 

Starts with Germany. 
First helmet from Germany and that will feed the Ukrainian I bet and now weapons to get them killed. 

Zalensky is asking civilians to fight against trained soldiers. It is an act of murder. 

And you are so supportive of the murderous decree by an Actor cum President.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510639897891196928


Apollon said:


> You laugh about massacres on women and children. Youngest victims in Bucha are said to be 6 years old.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510615072602787840

More Russian war crimes

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> You laugh about massacres on women and children. Youngest victims in Bucha are said to be 6 years old.


Really. While you encourage these kids to hold guns. Stop the hypocrisy.
IMO you just love war and killing.

Grow up or move your family to the war zone in Ukraine. Then you will experience the reality of a war.

If you survive, you may actually grow up to be a better man.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Really. While you encourage these kids to hold guns. Stop the hypocrisy.
> IMO you just love war and killing.
> 
> Grow up or move your family to the war zone in Ukraine. Then you will experience the reality of a war.
> 
> If you survive, you may actually grow up to be a better man.




Russian war crimes are being well documented. This is the most documented war in history. The evidence is overwhelming.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CAPRICORN-88

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> You are getting personal because you are running out of steam and reason to support the demonization of another race and a nation.
> 
> Are you a racist?
> 
> All we required from you is evidences of your allegations and not blind partisan support for one side. It does not concerned me but I only see fake news, nuances and manipulated video clips.
> 
> Show me one that can be verified.
> 
> Whether it is a Ukrainian or a Russia victory, is a matter of days or weeks ahead. I can waited and see and seriously I don't care who wins.


My bet is on Russia based on fact.

Correction: 

Warcrimes in Iraq, I Syria, I Libya, Afghanistan by the US and her allies are well documented.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CAPRICORN-88

The warcrimes by the US and allies are well documented.​​Australian government tells ICC it should not investigate alleged war crimes in Palestine​Prosecutor rejects Australia’s argument International Criminal Court has no jurisdiction because Palestine is ‘not a state’
Ben Doherty
 @bendohertycorro
Sat 9 May 2020 16.00 EDT

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The Australian government has told the International Criminal Court it should not investigate alleged war crimes in Palestine because Palestine is “not a state”, arguing the court prosecutor’s investigation into alleged attacks on civilians, torture, attacks on hospitals, and the use of human shields, should be halted on jurisdictional grounds.
Australia was lobbied to make the submission to the court by Israel, which is not a party to the court. *But the **office of the prosecutor has rejected Australia’s argument*, saying it had not formally challenged Palestine’s right to be a party to the court before.
In December, the ICC’s office of the prosecutor concluded a five-year preliminary examination of the “situation in the state of Palestine”, concluding there were reasonable grounds to believe that war crimes have been, or are being, committed in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip by members of the Israeli Defence Forces, Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups, and members of the Israeli authorities.
“I am satisfied that war crimes have been or are being committed in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip,” the prosecutor Fatou Bensouda said. “There are no substantial reasons to believe that an investigation would not serve the interests of justice.”

Continued...

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510495282936561667


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

sammuel said:


> Do you live in some parallel universe ?
> 
> I wonder where you get your information from , if you try to sell such nonsense here.
> 
> Pro Palestinian demonstration in NYC :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Pictures: Global protests in solidarity with Palestinians
> 
> 
> Large demonstrations held in chief cities around the world in condemnation of Israel’s actions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com




Here it turned violent and Pro-Palestinian demonstrators were arrested, and your *Anti-Defamation League *(ADL) has made these claims in order to get the Western politicians to suppress any protest against IsraHell's genocidal war against Palestinians in Gaza:

"*On Thursday, the Anti-Defamation League released preliminary data revealing an increase in both online and real-world incidents of antisemitism in the U.S. since the conflict between Israel and Hamas began. *

'*We are tracking acts of harassment, vandalism and violence as well as a torrent of online abuse,' said ADL CEO Jonathan Greenblatt. 'It's happening around the world — from London to Los Angeles, from France to Florida, in big cities like New York and in small towns, and across every social media platform.'* "

Your puppet Joe Biden made this statement in that demonstration: "*Mr. Biden said the U.S. will continue to support Israel's Iron Dome missile defense system, which blocked thousands of rockets during the conflict.*". In other words, Israel can continue killing the less-armed Palestinians and America will provide whatever it needs to carry out those massacres. That is the proof that America is a colony of Israel.

Your NYPD also arrested innocent pro-Palestinian demonstrators. "*Twenty-six people have been arrested so far in connection to the protests, the NYPD said. The charges include obstructing governmental administration, resisting arrest, unlawful assembly, disorderly conduct and criminal possession of a weapon*."









Pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian protesters clash in New York City, leading to over two dozen arrests


An unknown individual threw two commercial fireworks into a crowd in midtown, around the area of the Diamond District.




www.cbsnews.com





You can also see here how you demonize the Palestinian people in Murica: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opini...inian-rights-condemn-antisemitism-ncna1268680


----------



## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Crimea was the results of a number of things including the genocide of AZOV in Dombass, Lugansk but also have to do with geopolitics. Russia leased naval military port is there and she will never allowed a pro-NATO or US Ukraine to use it to block Russia Black Sea fleet.
> Will the US or UK allowed that. So it is meaningless as it involved Russia National Security.
> 
> As for Crimea joining Russia.
> Crimea joined Ukraine by a vote of referendum back in 1990 but historically was never a part of Ukraine.
> 
> This time they hold another referendum and they decide overwhelming to join Russia.
> 
> IMO Nothing is wrong in here.
> 
> Theh join Ukraine by referendum and now joined Russia also by referendum.
> Majority of the people voted Yes.


By your logic the Muslim minority in China have the rights to have s state. Ok.
They can hold a referendum. 99 per for separation.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510615612275494918


Interesting 
Russia army is not hunting Nazi. They are hubring women shoes.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Carry on spooking one and another with unverified photo and video. 

I only see photos of unnamed victims, and video clips of burnt vehicles from God only knows from where and when. 

Sorry I am not convinced. 

To me it is still the butler who did it and I know not of his natuonality. 

I will just have to stop here and watch my favorite drama. 

Happy spooking!

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Here it turned violent and Pro-Palestinian demonstrators were arrested, and your *Anti-Defamation League *(ADL) has made these claims in order to get the Western politicians to suppress any protest against IsraHell's genocidal war against Palestinians in Gaza:
> 
> "*On Thursday, the Anti-Defamation League released preliminary data revealing an increase in both online and real-world incidents of antisemitism in the U.S. since the conflict between Israel and Hamas began. *
> 
> '*We are tracking acts of harassment, vandalism and violence as well as a torrent of online abuse,' said ADL CEO Jonathan Greenblatt. 'It's happening around the world — from London to Los Angeles, from France to Florida, in big cities like New York and in small towns, and across every social media platform.'* "
> 
> Your puppet Joe Biden made this statement in that demonstration: "*Mr. Biden said the U.S. will continue to support Israel's Iron Dome missile defense system, which blocked thousands of rockets during the conflict.*". In other words, Israel can continue the less armed Palestinians and America will provide whatever it needs to carry out those America. Here is the proof that America is a colony of Israel.
> 
> Your NYPD also arrested innocent pro-Palestinian demonstrators. "*Twenty-six people have been arrested so far in connection to the protests, the NYPD said. The charges include obstructing governmental administration, resisting arrest, unlawful assembly, disorderly conduct and criminal possession of a weapon*."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian protesters clash in New York City, leading to over two dozen arrests
> 
> 
> An unknown individual threw two commercial fireworks into a crowd in midtown, around the area of the Diamond District.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cbsnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can also see here how you demonize the Palestinian people in Murica: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opini...inian-rights-condemn-antisemitism-ncna1268680



When a demonstration turned violent people get arrested. You tried to argue that that anti Israel demonstration are not allowed in NYC , nothing in what you wrote proves that insane claim.


You complain about imaginary things , yet have nothing to say about this :






~
~

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## CAPRICORN-88

Viet said:


> By your logic the Muslim minority in China have the rights to have s state. Ok.
> They can hold a referendum. 99 per for separation.
> 
> 
> Interesting
> Russia army is not hunting Nazi. They are hubring women shoes.



You read but failed to comprehend what I wrote, right. It is absolutely alright, something to do with IQ.

The answer is: Sovereignty is not negotiable and I bet you don't understand it either.

Go hom, brush your teeth and stop trolling.

Xinjiang Muslim Chinese live a better life than you.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> You read but failed to comprehend what I wrote, right. It is absolutely alright, something to do with IQ.
> 
> The answer is: Sovereignty is not negotiable and I bet you don't understand it either.
> 
> Go hom, brush your teeth and stop trolling.
> 
> Xinjiang Muslim Chinese live a better life than you.


Sovereignty is not negotiable? So why you support the separatists in Crime, Donbas?
Just because they speak Russian language?

Australia has Chinatown. Malaysia has Chinatown. Vietnam has Chinatown. You want to hold referendums there?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510501713698041856

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510613174118227974


----------



## Wood




----------



## bobo6661

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510501713698041856
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510613174118227974








Patriarch Kirill


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510649349482635265

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510649983908909064

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510556252019073027
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510560105355354113^ I wonder if there is actually anything authentic about Kadyrov's orcs.



What is authentic about Kadyarov's "orcs" is the Chechens are kicking arse in Mariupol. You beloved Azov Neo Nazis are wearing civilian and women clothes when they want to get out. The Chechen warriors are going through room by room and building by building to take the battle to those Azov Neo Nazis since your fellow Neo Nazi 'fighters' chose to hide amongst civilians.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510591266484068353

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510371955714756624

A Russian soldier prepared to rape Ukrainian women


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510371955714756624
> 
> A Russian soldier prepared to rape Ukrainian women




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510529879674085377

Reactions: Angry Angry:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510576059984527361


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510637042274820100

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2 | Wow Wow:
1


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## jamal18

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510637042274820100


The EU came to the Indians and said that India must stop buying Russian oil. The Indian External affairs minister reminded them that Europe's purchase of Russian oil had increased 15% this month.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Where and when? And who are the we?
> 
> Starts with Germany.
> First helmet from Germany and that will feed the Ukrainian I bet and now weapons to get them killed.
> 
> Zalensky is asking civilians to fight against trained soldiers. It is an act of murder.
> 
> And you are so supportive of the murderous decree by an Actor cum President.



We see what happens when Russians take ukrainian citizens, they murder evryone. Better fight and they do that very sucessful.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510656297066242054


----------



## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Really. While you encourage these kids to hold guns. Stop the hypocrisy.
> IMO you just love war and killing.
> 
> Grow up or move your family to the war zone in Ukraine. Then you will experience the reality of a war.
> 
> If you survive, you may actually grow up to be a better man.



Contrary to you i have friends in Ukraine who i know through my sport. I know what they go through and their bravery is inspiring. Your propaganda will die together with the russian soldiers.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510528210215256070

Russian barbecue boys

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## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> The warcrimes by the US and allies are well documented.​​Australian government tells ICC it should not investigate alleged war crimes in Palestine​Prosecutor rejects Australia’s argument International Criminal Court has no jurisdiction because Palestine is ‘not a state’
> Ben Doherty
> @bendohertycorro
> Sat 9 May 2020 16.00 EDT
> 
> Share on Facebook
> Share on Twitter
> Share via Email
> 1 year old
> 
> The Australian government has told the International Criminal Court it should not investigate alleged war crimes in Palestine because Palestine is “not a state”, arguing the court prosecutor’s investigation into alleged attacks on civilians, torture, attacks on hospitals, and the use of human shields, should be halted on jurisdictional grounds.
> Australia was lobbied to make the submission to the court by Israel, which is not a party to the court. *But the **office of the prosecutor has rejected Australia’s argument*, saying it had not formally challenged Palestine’s right to be a party to the court before.
> In December, the ICC’s office of the prosecutor concluded a five-year preliminary examination of the “situation in the state of Palestine”, concluding there were reasonable grounds to believe that war crimes have been, or are being, committed in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip by members of the Israeli Defence Forces, Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups, and members of the Israeli authorities.
> “I am satisfied that war crimes have been or are being committed in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip,” the prosecutor Fatou Bensouda said. “There are no substantial reasons to believe that an investigation would not serve the interests of justice.”
> 
> Continued...



The last resort of all Putler trolls. When nothing helps...Libya! Iraq! Hyrule! Mushroom Kingdom.


----------



## Wood

Seems like some of the sanctions may be repealed based on peace discussion


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510660446759669764

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## DF41

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> The UN said it was also investigating alleged indiscriminate shelling in Donetsk by the Ukrainian Armed Forces and the beating of those perceived to be pro-Russian by the police





Spoiler





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510316632530374657.


 🖕 Ukraine Nazis at work. Supported by Murica and NATO and backed by Stinkapore MIWs 🤮

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## Apollon

bobo6661 said:


> View attachment 830164
> 
> Patriarch Kirill



He is no patriarch, he is a criminal, shunned my all great leaders of the orthodox churches. He is also highly corrupt


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510661230876266497


----------



## DF41

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> The warcrimes by the US and allies are well documented.​​Australian government tells ICC it should not investigate alleged war crimes in Palestine​Prosecutor rejects Australia’s argument International Criminal Court has no jurisdiction because Palestine is ‘not a state’
> Ben Doherty
> @bendohertycorro
> Sat 9 May 2020 16.00 EDT
> 
> Share on Facebook
> Share on Twitter
> Share via Email
> 1 year old
> 
> The Australian government has told the International Criminal Court it should not investigate alleged war crimes in Palestine because Palestine is “not a state”, arguing the court prosecutor’s investigation into alleged attacks on civilians, torture, attacks on hospitals, and the use of human shields, should be halted on jurisdictional grounds.
> Australia was lobbied to make the submission to the court by Israel, which is not a party to the court. *But the **office of the prosecutor has rejected Australia’s argument*, saying it had not formally challenged Palestine’s right to be a party to the court before.
> In December, the ICC’s office of the prosecutor concluded a five-year preliminary examination of the “situation in the state of Palestine”, concluding there were reasonable grounds to believe that war crimes have been, or are being, committed in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip by members of the Israeli Defence Forces, Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups, and members of the Israeli authorities.
> “I am satisfied that war crimes have been or are being committed in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip,” the prosecutor Fatou Bensouda said. “There are no substantial reasons to believe that an investigation would not serve the interests of justice.”
> 
> Continued...


Is Australian gaberment a state in the first place?

Seems to me they nothing but a performing poodle of USA.

My apologies to those with poodle as I do not intend to demean your lovable doggie

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510660824213434374


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## Apollon

The russian war crimes in Ukraine were the final straw. The complete energy boycott from russia is on table









EU must discuss import ban on Russian gas, Germany says


Germany has so far resisted calls to impose an embargo on energy imports from Russia, saying its economy and that of other European countries are too dependent on them.




www.reuters.com


----------



## monitor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510371955714756624
> 
> A Russian soldier prepared to rape Ukrainian women


 You dont need condom to rape anyone.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510664013360861186


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## jhungary

monitor said:


> You dont need condom to rape anyone.


Speaking on my experience on investigating sexual assault. Yes, you need them unless you want to get caught in the crime. 

Condom prevent your sperm from entering into the woman vagina, which in turn prevent your DNA from going into it. Most rapist have condom in their pocket.....

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## Abdulaziz Al-Karimi

Wood said:


> Seems like some of the sanctions may be repealed based on peace discussion



This is weird move by the US. They have lost so much in Ukraine including the US dollar is publically being chellenged now besides Ukraine is decimated and Koreanified. Lose of insfrastructure so forth and so on. Letting up on sanctions or compromising shows signs of weakness on their behalf. Their ally was invaded flatout hence compromising will signal defeat

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## Wood

Abdulaziz Al-Karimi said:


> This is weird move by the US. They have lost so much in Ukraine including the US dollar is publically being chellenged now besides Ukraine is decimate and Koreanified


Rolling back sanctions is good for western countries as well. It seems to be conditional to the success of peace negotiations.

But this news is not widely reported in media. So take it with a pinch of salt


----------



## gambit

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Zalensky is asking civilians to fight against trained soldiers. It is an act of murder.


No, it is not. Technically speaking, a civilian can be a combatant. The correct words are 'combatant' and 'non-combatant'. The Geneva Convention made clear that technical distinction. Except for chaplains and medics, all infantry, sailors, and airmen are automatically combatants. Civilians can form their own combatant force and there is history of such, take the French Resistance or other various resistance groups in WW II.

You are lying.


----------



## Apollon

As it looks like Russia started murdering civilians already 3 days after the attack. It was systematic murder in towns and villages. This is not war crimes anymore. Its ordered genocide. 









Massaker in Kiewer Vorort: Die Toten von Butscha


Im Kiewer Vorort Butscha wurden Dutzende getötete Zivilisten entdeckt. Das Massaker ist ein neuer Höhepunkt der Grausamkeit.




www.sueddeutsche.de


----------



## F-22Raptor

Apollon said:


> As it looks like Russia started murdering civilians already 3 days after the attack. It was systematic murder in towns and villages. This is not war crimes anymore. Its ordered genocide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Massaker in Kiewer Vorort: Die Toten von Butscha
> 
> 
> Im Kiewer Vorort Butscha wurden Dutzende getötete Zivilisten entdeckt. Das Massaker ist ein neuer Höhepunkt der Grausamkeit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sueddeutsche.de




It’s crimes against humanity. And I truly hope the stories of rape are Ukrainian war propaganda because the stories I’ve read are horrific. Some I will not share here.


----------



## Abdulaziz Al-Karimi

Wood said:


> Rolling back sanctions is good for western countries as well. It seems to be conditional to the success of peace negotiations.



Ruskies aren't willing to compromise until they have reached their pre-conditioned goals which I suspect is nothing short of Novorossiya.. Is that not Koreanification perhaps you can negotiate with them if you are willing to give up Novorossiya which is probably 40-50% of Ukraine but I could see the Russian's leaving Odessa as in good gesture but taking Dnipro oblast instead

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## Apollon

Abdulaziz Al-Karimi said:


> Ruskies aren't willing to compromise until they have reached their pre-conditioned goals which I suspect is nothing short of Novorossiya.. Is that not Koreanification



Russians will get destroyed in Ukraine, wiped out completly. The burned corpses they pull out of the wrecks dont have many goals beside rotting away.


----------



## F-22Raptor

gambit said:


> No, it is not. Technically speaking, a civilian can be a combatant. The correct words are 'combatant' and 'non-combatant'. The Geneva Convention made clear that technical distinction. Except for chaplains and medics, all infantry, sailors, and airmen are automatically combatants. Civilians can form their own combatant force and there is history of such, take the French Resistance or other various resistance groups in WW II.
> 
> You are lying.




The entire Russian society needs to be destroyed and rebuilt along the lines of the Japanese in the decades after WW2. From the top down. 

The photos, videos, and stories we’re seeing from Ukraine just confirm that.

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## Wood

Hollywood can make end of world type movies in Ukraine. Cities look like what you may expect in an apocalyptic setting. Putin must transfer cash to compensate for the loss


----------



## jhungary

Abdulaziz Al-Karimi said:


> This is weird move by the US. They have lost so much in Ukraine including the US dollar is publically being chellenged now besides Ukraine is decimated and Koreanified. Lose of insfrastructure so forth and so on. Letting up on sanctions or compromising shows signs of weakness on their behalf. Their ally was invaded flatout hence compromising will signal defeat


First of all, US Sanction is NOT really the nail in Russia coffin. EU sanction is much more serious than US (for example, SWIFT is EU sanction, it is not an US organisation) and Russia have asset in EU bank, not US bank, so basically US sanction is not really a big deal for Russia, EU deal more hurt than US in the entire sanction perspective.

Second of all, that is the pre-condition for peace, not peace talk, as in they will not roll it back when they come to peace talk, if Russia and Ukraine achieve peace, then there are roll back, not before.


----------



## mmr

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Stop the BS and trolling.
> 
> EU in fact according to reports have found evidences of warcrimes by AZOV.
> So stop twisting the facts around.
> 
> It seem mass graves have been located. Seriously I don't know if it is true.


You are the one who is trolling. Maybe ppl should start to saying chinese were not *** fucked by japan during second world war and china man killed Chinese them self.



Apollon said:


> Stop your rubbish propaganda
> 
> EU knows full well russia did it and will slam more sanctions on russia, deliver more weapons to Ukraine.
> 
> Here right from german foreign minister
> 
> 
> 
> Redirect Notice


He is fucking troll. Winnie the poh will be very proud.

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## Apollon

F-22Raptor said:


> The entire Russian society needs to be destroyed and rebuilt along the lines of the Japanese in the decades after WW2. From the top down.
> 
> The photos, videos, and stories we’re seeing from Ukraine just confirm that.



I 100% agree, im shocked and have never seen anything like this before. Its like worst WW II massacres. Its horrendous.



mmr said:


> You are the one who is trolling. Maybe ppl should start to saying chinese were not *** fucked by japan during second world war and china man killed Chinese them self.
> 
> 
> He is fucking troll. Winnie the poh will be very proud.



Depends, Winnie is known to change his opinion quickly. When he gets tired of the trolls, he will cull them.

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## F-22Raptor

Apollon said:


> I 100% agree, im shocked and have never seen anything like this before. Its like worst WW II massacres. Its horrendous.



The rape stories are horrific. A bunch of Russian pedophiles.

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## Apollon

F-22Raptor said:


> The rape stories are horrific. A bunch of Russian pedophiles.



Its how they are. Ask elderly women from eastern prussia who had to endure red army in 1945. They raped girls as young as 5 and grandmas up to their 90th.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510537614805319681


----------



## FuturePAF

Su-35 crash? Lot of good tech for the boys and girls in the reverse engineering labs stateside. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510657987442098178

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## Apollon

FuturePAF said:


> Su-35 crash? Lot of good tech for the boys and girls in the reverse engineering labs stateside.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510657987442098178



Russian tech is mostly trash and garbage. As is the SU 35. What do you want reverse engineer? There is nothing on it with any value.

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## Wood

Abdulaziz Al-Karimi said:


> Ruskies aren't willing to compromise until they have reached their pre-conditioned goals which I suspect is nothing short of Novorossiya.. Is that not Koreanification perhaps you can negotiate with them if you are willing to give up Novorossiya which is probably 40-50% of Ukraine but I could see the Russian's leaving Odessa as in good gesture but taking Dnipro oblast instead


So far the Russians have struggled to take Kharkiv. NATO is very motivated to slowly escalate the heavy weapons delivery. Soon Ukraine may have more anti aircraft support. 

Achieving what you say will be more difficult for Russia than what they have faced so far.


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## PakAlp

Its all over for Russia. The withdrawal from Kiev and surrounding areas is a clear signal of Russian defeat. They should now withdraw from all Ukraine and bow down to Nato.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510650644394393604L


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510666264397684760

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## OldTwilight

PakAlp said:


> Its all over for Russia. The withdrawal from Kiev and surrounding areas is a clear signal of Russian defeat. They should now withdraw from all Ukraine and bow down to Nato.


Or maybe a faint retreat to attack heavier ... well , They said " we won't attack Ukraine " in days before attacking Ukraine , so you can't really judge Russians ( and all westerns ) by what they say

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## jhungary

Steward Ramsey talking about his ambush when he was covering for Sky News in Bucha (Yes, he was there when Bucha felt in the first 10 days and probably lucky he escaped seeing how it turns out)


----------



## Apollon

Wood said:


> So far the Russians have struggled to take Kharkiv. NATO is very motivated to slowly escalate the heavy weapons delivery. Soon Ukraine may have more anti aircraft support.
> 
> Achieving what you say will be more difficult for Russia than what they have faced so far.



Analysts here in Germany say that this should spill on russian soil. Push them out of ukraine and then attack russian cities.

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## Abdulaziz Al-Karimi

jhungary said:


> First of all, US Sanction is NOT really the nail in Russia coffin. EU sanction is much more serious than US (for example, SWIFT is EU sanction, it is not an US organisation) and Russia have asset in EU bank, not US bank, so basically US sanction is not really a big deal for Russia, EU deal more hurt than US in the entire sanction perspective.
> 
> Second of all, that is the pre-condition for peace, not peace talk, as in they will not roll it back when they come to peace talk, if Russia and Ukraine achieve peace, then there are roll back, not before.



I don't envision any rollbacks from Kherson, Myackileiv, Zap, Donetsk, Luhansk and Crimea oblasts probably not Kharkiv either but I could see a world where there is DMZ and Ukraine in 2 parts where round 2 fighting takes place again few years down the road but the DMZ partition is a reality. I also agree with the EU sanctions being more effective due to them having more assets in the Euro-Zone but it's also surprisingly how Russian currency bounced back there is no explaination could perhaps be the gold...



Clutch said:


> Why not? Are Iraqi, Yemeni, Syrian, Libyan, Afghan, Palestinians, Kashmiri less human then the Ukranian??
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> Btw, I'm not pro-Russia. I'm pro Whitie killing off other Whites.
> 
> 
> 
> Awe cute .. he got to endure 10% of what Iraqi, Yemeni, Syrian, Libyan, Afghan, Palestinians, Kashmiri have been for decades....



This is absolutely off-topic and thread derailment.. @LeGenD @The Eagle @waz @Foxtrot Alpha


----------



## Piotr

Zelensky rejected peace offer days before Russian offensive – WSJ​3 Apr, 2022 13:10

German Chancellor had reportedly attempted to convince the Ukrainian leader to drop NATO membership plan 

German chancellor Olaf Scholz had offered Volodymyr Zelensky a chance for peace just days before the launch of the Russian military offensive, but the Ukrainian president turned it down, the Wall Street Journal (WSJ) has reported.

Scholz had made what the US outlet described as _“one last push for a settlement between Moscow and Kiev”_ less than a week before the Russian forces were sent into Ukraine on February 24.

The chancellor told Zelensky in Munich on February 19 “_that Ukraine should renounce its NATO aspirations and declare neutrality as part of a wider European security deal between the West and Russia,”_ the paper writes. The daily also claims that _“the pact would be signed by Mr. Putin and Mr. Biden, who would jointly guarantee Ukraine’s security.”_

However, Zelensky rejected the offer to make the concession and avoid confrontation, saying that _“[Russia’s President Vladimir] Putin couldn’t be trusted to uphold such an agreement and that most Ukrainians wanted to join NATO,”_ the WSJ reports, without revealing its sources for the information.

_“His answer left German officials worried that the chances of peace were fading,”_ the report points out.

Scholz and Zelensky did meet on that day on the sidelines of the Munich Security Conference, at which each delivered an address.

Russia attacked its neighbor in late February, following Ukraine’s failure to implement the terms of the Minsk agreements signed in 2014, and Russia’s eventual recognition of the Donbass republics in Donetsk and Lugansk. The German and French brokered protocols had been designed to regularize the status of those regions within the Ukrainian state.

Russia has now demanded that Ukraine officially declare itself a neutral country that will never join the US-led NATO military bloc. Kiev insists the Russian offensive was completely unprovoked and has denied claims it was planning to retake the rebel regions by force.

https://www.rt.com/news/553213-zelensky-scholz-ukraine-peace/

People are dying now because of USA and this clown Zelensky.

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## Clutch

PakAlp said:


> Its all over for Russia. The withdrawal from Kiev and surrounding areas is a clear signal of Russian defeat. They should now withdraw from all Ukraine and bow down to Nato.



That's too bad... Hopefully Russians regroup and attack from another point and prolong this hopefully never ending war-on-terror ... 'er sorry, I meant, Ukraine-Russia war.


----------



## OldTwilight

Apollon said:


> Analysts here in Germany say that this should spill on russian soil. Push them out of ukraine and then attack russian cities.



lol , well , as I already told you , by prolonging war , it will become more brutal ...

*anyway , this war is just showing the savagery of the westerns ...*

we fought Iraq for 8 years and we didn't do anything like these to Iraqis after losing more than 100,000 persons ... I can proudly say , we are more civilized in our worst days than you Europeans in your best days ...

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## Piotr

Blogger Reveals How She Was Used to Create Fake About ‘Russian Air Strike’ on Mariupol Hospital​Yesterday







Photos snapped by an Associated Press photographer of a pregnant woman at a demolished Mariupol hospital which Western media claimed had been “bombed by Russian forces” spread like wildfire, with US and European officials and media characterising the incident as evidence of Russian “war crimes”. The Russian MoD dismissed the allegations.
Marianna Vyshemirskaya, a Mariupol beauty blogger who has been turned into a symbol by Western media to shore up claims that the Russian military deliberately bombed one of the city’s maternity hospitals on 9 March, has come forward to explain what really took place.
In a series of story posts on her Instagram page, Vyshemirskaya, whose name was erroneously reported as "Vyshegirskaya" in many Western reports, stressed that the hospital was not struck in an air strike, but apparently shelled by artillery.
Vyshemirskaya also explained that immediately after the shelling, photos of her and other women were taken without their permission by an Associated Press reporter wearing military fatigues and a helmet.

“I spent probably 30 minutes near the maternity hospital. This was where I was photographed. I was the last one to be photographed. When I saw the Associated Press reporter taking pictures I asked him to stop because I didn’t want or need this. He answered ‘Yes, yes, okay’, but after I and a policeman who agreed to accompany me to the second floor of the building to get my things came back down he again started snapping us”, the woman said.
According to Vyshemirskaya, even Ukrainian law enforcement told the reporter not to shoot, with the photo correspondent ignoring them at first, before finally leaving after being warned a second time.
“I did not give my permission for my photos to be taken and published. They published them by their own initiative”, Vyshemirskaya stressed.
The woman said that two days after the incident, Associated Press reporters came back and asked her for an interview. “I replied that I am apolitical and did not want to give any interview. They said ‘We are also apolitical, but we’ve published your photos on the Internet’”, she recalled.

That’s when the slew of fakes and information attacks began, she said. “Because the situation that developed, which they plopped me into –because I never agreed to have my photos published, I was forced to comment, since my situation was considered a fake, that there was nobody in the maternity hospital. I said there were women in labour and pregnant women in the hospital…They also asked me if there was an air raid. I replied that no one heard an air raid. Explosions took place but there were no noises before or after them [to indicate aircraft]. This information didn’t seem to be to their liking. They cut it out”, she said.

In a separate interview published Saturday, Marianna said she and her husband went to Mariupol’s Maternity Hospital # 3 after being rejected by Maternity Hospital #2, which was not accepting patients, and Maternity Hospital #1, which she said had been “occupied by the military”.
Russian Ambassador to the UN Vasily Nebenzya mentioned Ukrainian troops’ occupation of Maternity Hospital #1 in an address on 7 March.
Vyshemirskaya also revealed the difficult conditions at the hospital, saying that husbands of the pregnant women had to live in the hospital’s basement, and that food had to be prepared in a field kitchen in the yard. Vyshemirskaya said Ukrainian troops at the hospital did nothing to help, and one day even came and took food away from staff, saying they had not eaten in days.

‘Information Provocation’​Four people were killed, one baby died as a stillbirth, and at least 17 others were injured in the Mariupol hospital attack.
EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell called the incident a “heinous war crime” by Russia. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said it was evidence that “a genocide of Ukrainians is taking place”.
Russian Defence Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov dismissed claims of Russian involvement as an “information provocation by Kiev”, noting that a ceasefire regime had been declared by Russian forces on 9 March to allow for the evacuation of Mariupol’s residents, and that Russian aircraft did not take to the skies over the city that day. The Russian military also warned repeatedly about the presence of Ukrainian troops and neo-Nazi Azov militants at the city's hospitals.
After being published by the AP on 10 March, photos of a battered Marianna carrying a blanket against the backdrop of the bombed out hospital spread like wildfire online. The news agency ran the story with the lead: "A Russian airstrike devastated a maternity hospital Wednesday in the besieged port city of Mariupol amid growing warnings from the West that Moscow's invasion is about to take a more brutal and indiscriminate turn".
The photos were immediately picked up and used extensively by a host of other outlets, from the BBC and CNN to The Guardian, The Mirror, and a host of other outlets as a symbol of "Russian torture and brutality". An ill-fated series of tweets by the Russian Embassy in the UK saying that the incident appeared staged sparked further outrage, and ultimately prompted Twitter to remove them.
Vyshemirskaya's story is the latest in an increasingly dense ecosystem of fakes, misinformation, and disinformation which has appeared online during the Ukraine crisis, from the legend of Snake Island, where the Ukrainian troops that Russia was feared to have indiscriminately cut down later appeared alive and well in Crimea, to the famous "Ghost of Kiev", the mythical Ukrainian fighter ace reported to have shot down an innumerable number of Russian planes.

https://sputniknews.com/20220402/bl...r-strike-on-mariupol-hospital-1094424700.html

Banderites are pathological liars.

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## OldTwilight

Well , Its look like Russians are going to lose their patient and we will see their usual heavy bombardment tactics ... 
now , that they can't win in clean way , they probably just split more blood ( although Ukrainian blood has no value for NATO ) ...


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## Apollon

OldTwilight said:


> lol , well , as I already told you , by prolonging war , it will become more brutal ...
> 
> *anyway , this war is just showing the savagery of the westerns ...*
> 
> we fought Iraq for 8 years and we didn't do anything like these to Iraqis after losing more than 100,000 persons ... I can proudly say , we are more civilized in our worst days than you Europeans in your best days ...



And your comment helps?


----------



## F-22Raptor

Clutch said:


> That's too bad... Hopefully Russians regroup and attack from another point and prolong this hopefully never ending war-on-terror ... 'er sorry, I meant, Ukraine-Russia war.




Your just trolling at this point. No one in the West is going to care about the Middle East, when the people of the Middle East don’t care. You hate each other, so why should people on the other side of the planet care?

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## Abdulaziz Al-Karimi

Apollon said:


> And your comment helps?



that @Clutch is a spammer troll don't converse with him just report him and his way off-topic. I hate these who try to use propaganda means to get sympathy on one side like him.. They disgust me these doing that and I have seen him and another troll called tamerlane doing that🤮

@waz @LeGenD

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510684551210807298

The Ukrainians have obtained heavy .50 caliber machine guns.

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## Viet

jamal18 said:


> The EU came to the Indians and said that India must stop buying Russian oil. The Indian External affairs minister reminded them that Europe's purchase of Russian oil had increased 15% this month.


Russia sells oil with 20 or 25 percent discount on the markets to willing buyers. cheap oil is sexy.


----------



## OldTwilight

Apollon said:


> And your comment helps?



Well , its help you to be humble , from what I read from you , you are potential war criminal filled with hatred toward Russians ... 
if you found an opportunity , you will rape , you will torture , and kill any Russian you found ... so you are not really different from the people you try to condemn ...


----------



## Viet

Clutch said:


> That's too bad... Hopefully Russians regroup and attack from another point and prolong this hopefully never ending war-on-terror ... 'er sorry, I meant, Ukraine-Russia war.


The war costs Putin between $7 billion to $20 billion per day. War is not cheap.

Just for military operations

Not included the huge economic toll on Russia

That already runs over $1 trillion.

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## Abdulaziz Al-Karimi

Wood said:


> So far the Russians have struggled to take Kharkiv. NATO is very motivated to slowly escalate the heavy weapons delivery. Soon Ukraine may have more anti aircraft support.



The Kharkiv area has been hotly contested and tough area for the russians


----------



## F-22Raptor

Abdulaziz Al-Karimi said:


> The Kharkiv area has been hotly contested and tough area for the russians




The Russians have been pushed back at Kharkiv, and supply lines remain open. It’s hard to imagine Russia being able to consolidate the east without control of Kharkiv.

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## OldTwilight

Viet said:


> The war costs Putin between $7 billion to $20 billion per day. War is not cheap.
> 
> Just for military operations
> 
> Not included the huge economic toll on Russia
> 
> That already runs over $1 trillion.



I doubt , or else USA wasn't waging war left and right ...


----------



## Vergennes

LMAO


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510596719645696007

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Abdulaziz Al-Karimi

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians have been pushed back at Kharkiv, and supply lines remain open. It’s hard to imagine Russia being able to consolidate the east without control of Kharkiv.



Is the siege on the city itself broken by the Ukraine armed forces because last time I remember there was a siege on the city itself but the russians only controlled about 20% of the oblast which is not much hence the Kharkiv area resistance has been successful compared to other areas


----------



## Apollon

OldTwilight said:


> Well , its help you to be humble , from what I read from you , you are potential war criminal filled with hatred toward Russians ...
> if you found an opportunity , you will rape , you will torture , and kill any Russian you found ... so you are not really different from the people you try to condemn ...



You dont know me. So dont make such allegations. Im educated, smart and cultivated and i was teached morals. Contrary to what you say, i would never act like that.


----------



## Viet

OldTwilight said:


> I doubt , or else USA wasn't waging war left and right ...


The US is much richer. Don’t forget when US goes to war she taps the money from allies, including money from the oil sheiks.

The war costs Russia about 20 to 25 billion USD per day.









Vier Tage Krieg kosten Russland 6,4 Mrd. Euro


Erste Schätzung des Wirtschafts-Consulters Civitta errechnet Gesamtkosten von 142,8 Mrd. Dollar




www.pressetext.com


----------



## OldTwilight

Apollon said:


> You dont know me. So dont make such allegations. Im educated, smart and cultivated and i was teached morals. Contrary to what you say, i would never act like that.



you are openly wishing for mass destruction of Russia and Russians .... you are just another " we are civilized " western ... nothing more ...

when you declare " Im rightfull" then it mean you give yourself permission to do anything to " other ( un-rightfull) people "

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## Apollon

OldTwilight said:


> you are openly wishing for mass destruction of Russia and Russians .... you are just another " we are civilized " western ... nothing more ...
> 
> when you declare " Im rightfull" then it mean you give yourself permission to do anything to " other ( un-rightfull) people "



No, i said Russia must be crushed out of ukraine. Maybe you dont understand english well enough


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510688886518960128


----------



## 925boy

Viet said:


> That already runs over $1 trillion.


If the war is actually now ov er $1trn then explain to us how Russia keeps paying for it then??? biased mind u have.



Apollon said:


> No, i said* NATO* must be crushed out of ukraine. Maybe you dont understand english well enough


There, fixed it for you. Cuz that's actually whats happening in Ukraine now tbh.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510693624434077699
Antiship Harppons now in Odessa

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## 925boy

Viet said:


> The US is much *poorer*.


There, fixed it for you. You know why this is true? well why did US sanctions WEAR OFF Russia's curency in less than a month? that Ruble sht is back like nothing happened!



Viet said:


> Don’t forget when US goes to war she taps the money from allies,


Only war US can afford to go to for is China, and that is honestly doubtful. Why didnt US move into Ukraine to save this prpecious NATO investment? your eyes will clear this time about your US bias.


Viet said:


> including money from the oil sheiks.


Who are now looking after their own interests and realizing all the US military equipment they bought from US havent really helped?


Viet said:


> The war costs Russia about 20 to 25 billion USD per day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vier Tage Krieg kosten Russland 6,4 Mrd. Euro
> 
> 
> Erste Schätzung des Wirtschafts-Consulters Civitta errechnet Gesamtkosten von 142,8 Mrd. Dollar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pressetext.com


LMAO, Only in your metaverse!


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510605421773471746

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510605421773471746



Russians are now keeping giant distances in between nearest contact, and the body of forced.

What we see in a back-and-forth in between Kherson, and Mikolaiv is what how the rest of the war will likelly look like.

The moment one side gets temporary advantage in a close quarter firefight, artillery comes, and the artillery duel starts.

The 2km man-portable ATGMs are certainly not enough now. The enemy has adapted.

Something far more long range is needed, man-portable Hellfire, or Tow 2 can be that.

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## jhungary

Abdulaziz Al-Karimi said:


> I don't envision any rollbacks from Kherson, Myackileiv, Zap, Donetsk, Luhansk and Crimea oblasts probably not Kharkiv either but I could see a world where there is DMZ and Ukraine in 2 parts where round 2 fighting takes place again few years down the road but the DMZ partition is a reality. I also agree with the EU sanctions being more effective due to them having more assets in the Euro-Zone but it's also surprisingly how Russian currency bounced back there is no explaination could perhaps be the gold...
> 
> 
> 
> This is absolutely off-topic and thread derailment.. @LeGenD @The Eagle @waz @Foxtrot Alpha


Well, military situation is independent to the talk, you talk regardless on the situation on the ground, but whether or not you get any favourable result largely due to what you have in term of Bargaining chips.

Already posted earlier today that peace talk now would be useless, neither Russia and Ukraine have any sort of advantage for them to settle on the table instead of on the ground. There is a big Ukrainian offensive coming (You can see from what the EU and US is sending the Ukrainian) talks may be possible after this counter offensive, which if I have to guess, it would be down south to relieve Odesa and possibly going back to pre-war Southern Ukraine line. 

The reason Russian currency bounce back is not because of gold, it's because they stop people from trading foreign currency and increased interest rate to 20% IIRC (could be wrong on the %). That will keep Rouble back into Russian Central Bank. That is the reason why Rouble bounced back. On the other hand, they are just trading currency shortage with non-flexible economic development. Because you are looking at centralise your currency by basically holding them all, there are two problem associated with this, One is inflation, and the other is you basically stopped external trade. International trade don't use Rouble and if you do use, you decentralise your currency. How long can it hold depends on how long can Russia stop the "Rouble Bleed" that is why Putin decree everyone buying Russian resource have to use Rouble. Now, whether or not the west will listen is another problem.


----------



## OldTwilight

Apollon said:


> No, i said Russia must be crushed out of ukraine. Maybe you dont understand english well enough


I understand well , you simply said 



Apollon said:


> Analysts here in Germany say that this should spill on russian soil. Push them out of ukraine and then *attack russian cities.*



attacking Russian cities mean to kill Russians ... 

well , this is war and I don't have much love for Russians , but there is not much difference between you so called " Westerns " and Russians ... 

both of you are from same tree and savagery is in your blood ...

Reactions: Like Like:
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## FuturePAF

Apollon said:


> Russian tech is mostly trash and garbage. As is the SU 35. What do you want reverse engineer? There is nothing on it with any value.


Not reverse engineer to use per say, but to identify their weaknesses. There are a lot of operators of Russian equipment. Knowing the ins and outs of their technology is more then half the fight.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510693624434077699
> Antiship Harppons now in Odessa


That’s probably where this war is going to be make or break for the Russians, taking Odessa and the entire black sea coast or not.

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## jhungary

Abdulaziz Al-Karimi said:


> Is the siege on the city itself broken by the Ukraine armed forces because last time I remember there was a siege on the city itself but the russians only controlled about 20% of the oblast which is not much hence the Kharkiv area resistance has been successful compared to other areas


Russia tried on the city early on, it was pushed back 3 weeks into the war, now Kharkiv is like Kyiv before, Russia is on the satellite city outside Kharkiv, they are not inside the city like in Mariupol.



Paul2 said:


> Russians are now keeping giant distances in between nearest contact, and the body of forced.
> 
> What we see in a back-and-forth in between Kherson, and Mikolaiv is what how the rest of the war will likelly look like.
> 
> The moment one side gets temporary advantage in a close quarter firefight, artillery comes, and the artillery duel starts.
> 
> The 2km man-portable ATGMs are certainly not enough now. The enemy has adapted.
> 
> Something far more long range is needed, man-portable Hellfire, or Tow 2 can be that.


You can't start a counter offensive with static weapon, you will need mobile weapon on that. Which mean attack helicopter and tank, supported by Artillery or Armed Drone. 

There is a major shift on western equipment aid toward mobile weaponry (APC, IFV, Tank, SPG and so on) and that is an indication that a major push is coming....You don't ask for tank if you are not planning on a push.......


----------



## OldTwilight

Look like despite all claims , we were doing most planing and fighting in Syria ( which was overflowed with foreign fighters and ATGMs ) not Russians ... they just took the credit ...


----------



## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510626306844729348
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510627099119337477



These are likelly the remains of cutoff BTGs which tried to reach Chornobyl, and then when they understood that Irpin is retaken by Ukrainians did turn West, and left through Puskivka, and around Korosten.

Also, now there are reports of tens of units of armour sank in Pripyat river from units which didn't manage to reach the bridge.

I thought those BTRs, and BMPs are amphibious. Not so much apparently after battle damage, and decades in storage.

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## patero

jhungary said:


> Well, military situation is independent to the talk, you talk regardless on the situation on the ground, but whether or not you get any favourable result largely due to what you have in term of Bargaining chips.
> 
> Already posted earlier today that peace talk now would be useless, neither Russia and Ukraine have any sort of advantage for them to settle on the table instead of on the ground. There is a big Ukrainian offensive coming (You can see from what the EU and US is sending the Ukrainian) talks may be possible after this counter offensive, which if I have to guess, it would be down south to relieve Odesa and possibly going back to pre-war Southern Ukraine line.
> 
> The reason Russian currency bounce back is not because of gold, it's because they stop people from trading foreign currency and increased interest rate to 20% IIRC (could be wrong on the %). That will keep Rouble back into Russian Central Bank. That is the reason why Rouble bounced back. On the other hand, they are just trading currency shortage with non-flexible economic development. Because you are looking at centralise your currency by basically holding them all, there are two problem associated with this, One is inflation, and the other is you basically stopped external trade. International trade don't use Rouble and if you do use, you decentralise your currency. How long can it hold depends on how long can Russia stop the "Rouble Bleed" that is why Putin decree everyone buying Russian resource have to use Rouble. Now, whether or not the west will listen is another problem.


This pay in roubles move is also just for political purposes to create the impression Putin's Russia and it's economy are stronger than it actually is. The same can be said for the rebound in the value of the rouble, a combination of strict capital controls on outflows and as you mentioned high interest rates are artificially raising the value of the Rouble. Again, it's largely for political purposes but only serves to mask the real state of the Russian economy.

This pay in Roubles tactic doesn't change the fundamentals of foreign currency transactions, it only changes the order in which foreign currencies are converted to Roubles (by the Russian banks that aren't yet sanctioned) then received by a Russian exporter such as Gazprom, rather than the other way around. It doesn't really change anything.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510699774814695429🚜

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Russia tried on the city early on, it was pushed back 3 weeks into the war, now Kharkiv is like Kyiv before, Russia is on the satellite city outside Kharkiv, they are not inside the city like in Mariupol.
> 
> 
> You can't start a counter offensive with static weapon, you will need mobile weapon on that. Which mean attack helicopter and tank, supported by Artillery or Armed Drone.
> 
> There is a major shift on western equipment aid toward mobile weaponry (APC, IFV, Tank, SPG and so on) and that is an indication that a major push is coming....You don't ask for tank if you are not planning on a push.......



Definitely, Ukrainian push in Kherson is so far only been probing their defences with light infantry.

They are waiting


----------



## bobo6661

Guess russians fked themself more near izium where they destroyed the dam at Oskil Water Reservoir the land will be even harder to pass there


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510679194157699076

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510635813402550275

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510635826031517699

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510672889812594690

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

Wood said:


> Seems like some of the sanctions may be repealed based on peace discussion



Sanctions will only be lifted if Russia abandons the SPFS and CHIPS financial systems; otherwise, the conflict between Russia and the West will forever go on.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## NAVDEEP DHALIWAL

bobo6661 said:


> man i know my point you will find many retards in india as in ukraine now go buy some cloths in your Hiltler shop
> View attachment 830069
> 
> and have some ice cream on your way
> 
> View attachment 830075



These are people trying to make money out of sensational naming the product.
Nothing to do with NAZI lol.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510647240100093962


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Abdulaziz Al-Karimi said:


> This is weird move by the US. They have lost so much in Ukraine including the US dollar is publically being chellenged now besides Ukraine is decimated and Koreanified. Lose of insfrastructure so forth and so on. Letting up on sanctions or compromising shows signs of weakness on their behalf. Their ally was invaded flatout hence compromising will signal defeat



Russia is using gas, minerals, and food in order to exact a maximum pain on the West. There is already inflation that is skyrocketing, and recession is around the corner.

Besides, Russia abandoning the fiat money has its gradual effect. So the Western elites want to play both bad cop and good cop at the same time.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510708186554187786^ I don't know how recent this video is.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Could be your darling Azov Neo Nazis.


sadly for you azow is only in mariupol


----------



## dBSPL

According to the Russian Electronic Communications Association, more than 50,000 tech workers left the country in two months. About 100 thousand more people can be added in April. Due to the cyber security threat, IT companies have been introduced to applications such as tax exemption, cheap loans and military service deferral.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510705105280118784

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510710338060230666

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510611056523104263

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510712658709856264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510706249826021384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510698468045733900🚜

Reactions: Like Like:
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## PakAlp

OldTwilight said:


> Or maybe a faint retreat to attack heavier ... well , They said " we won't attack Ukraine " in days before attacking Ukraine , so you can't really judge Russians ( and all westerns ) by what they say


 It took them weeks to capture that territory. I am not anti Russia but pro Russian members must admit Russian withdrawal is a huge setback.


----------



## dBSPL

Most advanced MRAP in Russian army inventory

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510699774814695429

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510687964833230859

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510691496562941954

Reactions: Love Love:
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## jamal18

PakAlp said:


> It took them weeks to capture that territory. I am not anti Russia but pro Russian members must admit Russian withdrawal is a huge setback.


If you listen to what they say, they never had the intention of capturing Kiev. The purpose of this move was to tie down Ukrainian troops and prevent their redeployment futher east.

The critical area is the Donbass.

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## dBSPL

PakAlp said:


> It took them weeks to capture that territory. I am not anti Russia but pro Russian members must admit Russian withdrawal is a huge setback.


Russia did not want to occupy Kiev anyway. They sacrificed billions of dollars worth of equipment and thousands of soldiers just for intimidate Ukraine. Ukraine is very afraid now and they will accept Russia's demands. (One of the possible answers to this message by pro-russian members.)

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## bobo6661

Messerschmitt said:


> 🚜


The most feared predator of this war

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510711478764163081

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

jamal18 said:


> If you listen to what they say, they never had the intention of capturing Kiev. The purpose of this move was to tie down Ukrainian troops and prevent their redeployment futher east.
> 
> The critical area is the Donbass.



Dude you make a cardinal mistake. You listen what they say...If Kremlin says its night, i would check for myself. 

Of course they wanted Kiev, they wanted regime change. They believed Ukraine folds in 3 days. They lost thousands of soldiers, extreme high numbers of equipment. And 7 generals.

They are retards, plain and simple. Russias system favors the most idiotic ones to swep on top. Yes sayers, boot lickers. Lowest vermin ends up as " top advisors".

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

dBSPL said:


> Russia did not want to occupy Kiev anyway. They sacrificed billions of dollars worth of equipment and thousands of soldiers just for intimidate Ukraine. Ukraine is very afraid now and they will accept Russia's demands. (One of the possible answers to this message by pro-russian members.)


If Ukraine starts to gain territory in the East, then what will be the new narrative? That Russia never wanted to invade Ukraine in the first place?!

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## dBSPL

Wood said:


> If Ukraine starts to gain territory in the East, then what will be the new narrative? That Russia never wanted to invade Ukraine in the first place?!


Then, back to plan-1. Ukrainians and Russians are brothers. Then Peskov makes the following statement; Russia has never invaded any country in its history, never started a war. (He said exactly that in February.)

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## Apollon

Wood said:


> If Ukraine starts to gain territory in the East, then what will be the new narrative? That Russia never wanted to invade Ukraine in the first place?!



No, then Peskov says again what he already did...







Putin did it to get rid of russia

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

Gold-backed ruble could be a gamechanger for Russia and the West​






Linking the currency to gold and energy is a paradigm shift for the global economy, a precious metals analyst tells RT

The Bank of Russia has resumed gold purchases this week, but more importantly, the regulator is doing so at a fixed price of 5,000 rubles ($59) per 1 gram between March 28 and June 30, raising the possibility of Russia returning to the gold standard for the first time in over a century.

If the country takes the next step, as has been proposed this week, to sell its commodities priced in rubles, these combined moves could have huge implications for the ruble, the US dollar, and the global economy.

To get some answers, RT spoke to precious metals analyst Ronan Manly at BullionStar Singapore.

...

https://www.arabnews24.ca/en/Business_news/196064.html

https://www.irishsun.com/news/272444963/gold-backed-ruble-could-be-a-gamechanger-interview
​Russia officially pegs the ruble to gold​
Russia owns 2,300 tons of gold and can cover all the rubles printed in gold..

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## That Guy

At this point the war is lost. If Putin has a brain, he'll let go of his pride, he'll negotiate for some sort of way to save face and withdraw his forces. I'm at the point that I fully expect Ukraine to take all of the east and if they have the momentum, start taking Crimea, though Crimea is still a long shot.

Once again, Russia has lost, and has been relegated to a lesser power status. No doubt Turkey and China are gonna start ousting Russian influence in their respective neighborhoods.



The SC said:


> Gold-backed ruble could be a gamechanger for Russia and the West​
> View attachment 830245
> 
> 
> Linking the currency to gold and energy is a paradigm shift for the global economy, a precious metals analyst tells RT
> 
> The Bank of Russia has resumed gold purchases this week, but more importantly, the regulator is doing so at a fixed price of 5,000 rubles ($59) per 1 gram between March 28 and June 30, raising the possibility of Russia returning to the gold standard for the first time in over a century.
> 
> If the country takes the next step, as has been proposed this week, to sell its commodities priced in rubles, these combined moves could have huge implications for the ruble, the US dollar, and the global economy.
> 
> To get some answers, RT spoke to precious metals analyst Ronan Manly at BullionStar Singapore.
> 
> ...
> 
> https://www.arabnews24.ca/en/Business_news/196064.html
> 
> https://www.irishsun.com/news/272444963/gold-backed-ruble-could-be-a-gamechanger-interview
> ​


If this was good for their economy, they would have done it a long time ago, even before the war in Ukraine.

This isn't gonna make much of a difference. The Ruble is only temporarily being held up, and once a few months pass, the Ruble will likely crash so long as sanctions remain in place, which they will.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## khansaheeb

Apollon said:


> How about Vlad leaves Ukraine instead? It ends the very minute. Before that happenes we will continue sending weapons





F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510271316250832905


Seems like the Russians learnt nothing from the Chechnyan and Afghan conflicts.


----------



## dBSPL

The SC said:


> Gold-backed ruble could be a gamechanger for Russia and the West​
> View attachment 830245
> 
> 
> Linking the currency to gold and energy is a paradigm shift for the global economy, a precious metals analyst tells RT
> 
> The Bank of Russia has resumed gold purchases this week, but more importantly, the regulator is doing so at a fixed price of 5,000 rubles ($59) per 1 gram between March 28 and June 30, raising the possibility of Russia returning to the gold standard for the first time in over a century.
> 
> If the country takes the next step, as has been proposed this week, to sell its commodities priced in rubles, these combined moves could have huge implications for the ruble, the US dollar, and the global economy.
> 
> To get some answers, RT spoke to precious metals analyst Ronan Manly at BullionStar Singapore.
> 
> ...
> 
> https://www.arabnews24.ca/en/Business_news/196064.html
> 
> https://www.irishsun.com/news/272444963/gold-backed-ruble-could-be-a-gamechanger-interview
> ​


The exclusion of Russia from the global FIAT system gives a new impetus to digitization in money markets. Pay particular attention to the Bitcoin conference next week. Keep a close eye on the ETH2.0 process as well.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510721942487289862

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510722133026029571

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510720131760111617

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510668080044720131🚜


----------



## patero

Wood said:


> If Ukraine starts to gain territory in the East, then what will be the new narrative? That Russia never wanted to invade Ukraine in the first place?!


They'll say that they just wanted a risk card (reference to the board game).

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## dBSPL

We did not commit any acts of violence around Kiev

—Russian Ministry of Defense


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510710879746154502

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510637778207399938

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510637964560416785

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510639146687242251


----------



## Type59

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510528210215256070
> 
> Russian barbecue boys


This personifies the human trait of justifying barbarism. People celebrating death and convincing themselves it's okay because the other side are "evil, inhuman etc". 

You seem to love these grizzly pictures and good for you. 👏

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## The SC

dBSPL said:


> The exclusion of Russia from the global FIAT system gives a new impetus to digitization in money markets. Pay particular attention to the Bitcoin conference next week. Keep a close eye on the ETH2.0 process as well.


A parallel action... with the decision to sell all Russia's exports to Western countries in the ruble currency... in another way.... It somewhat raised the embarrassment of these countries that Russia is targeting with such decisions and measures..

For example... the one who went out and stated that he would not pay gas in rubles... now has the option to pay... in gold!

Gas - - >gold--> rubles

An intermediate operation... that saves everyone's face... and Russia is of course a winner on all levels.. Internal economy and foreign trade.

Let's see how it develops.. not everyone is eager for the digitization in money markets..

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510723762894823443


----------



## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510637778207399938
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510637964560416785
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510639146687242251


The Russians can say everything and anything they want, it doesn't matter. No one believes them, and no one should believe them.

The Russian military and economy is worthless at this point.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510636948897083392
looks like someone needs some parts


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://www.facebook.com/mod.mil.rus/posts/3197015560541178

Reactions: Haha Haha:
3 | Angry Angry:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510720050252201990

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510706664701321221
Seems like these numb nuts still don't realize that they have withdrawn from Kiev


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

*Briefing of the Ministry of Defense of Russia (03.04.2022 )*



* Troops of the Donetsk People's Republic, continuing the attack, are fighting in the vicinity of Novobakhmutovka and Troitsky. In the Novoselovka district, the retreating units of the Ukrainian 25th Airborne Brigade suffered major losses as a result of the artillery strike. More than 40 people of personal composition and 7 units of armored equipment were destroyed.*




* The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continued to strike on the objects of the military infrastructure of Ukraine. High-intensity air-based missiles destroyed large fuel reserves in Konstantinovka Nikolaev region, Slavuta Rovno region and Ternopil. From these facilities, fuel supplies were carried out for Ukrainian troops groups in the Nikolaevsky and Donetsk districts.*




As a result of an attack on Balovnoe airport in the suburbs of Nikolaev, a parking lot of air equipment and fuel storage were destroyed.




A strike on the Vasilkov military airport in the Kiev region was launched by the Center for Aviation and Anti-Air Defense of the Ukrainian Air Force.




* During the day 42 military objects of Ukraine were damaged by operational-tactical and military aviation of the Russian Federation of Russia. Among them: three missile launch installations of zenite missile complexes, including one "Buk-M1" and two "Osa-AKM", one artillery battery, two backup fire jet systems, two field warehouses of missile-artillery weapons and ammunition in, as well as 8 support points and areas of concentration of combat equipment Ukrainian Armed Forces .*




* Russian anti-aircraft defense means three drone aircraft were shot down in the air in the areas of Krasnogorka and Grabovskoye.*




In total, since the beginning of a special military operation, 386 drone aircraft, 224 zenite missile complexes, 1918 tanks and other armored vehicles have been destroyed, 209 air jet systems, 814 weapons and field artillery and mortars, as well as 1789 units of special military automobile equipment.









Брифинг Минобороны России (03.04.2022 г.) | 🇷🇺🇺🇦 Брифинг Минобороны России (03.04.2022 г.) ▫ Подразделения войск Донецкой Народной Республики, продолжая наступление, ведут бои в районе... | By Минобороны России | Facebook


10K views, 554 likes, 85 loves, 248 comments, 82 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Минобороны России: 🇷🇺🇺🇦 Брифинг Минобороны России (03.04.2022 г.) ▫ Подразделения войск Донецкой Народной...




fb.watch


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## Wood

Russia's state media :

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## F-22Raptor

Type59 said:


> This personifies the human trait of justifying barbarism. People celebrating death and convincing themselves it's okay because the other side are "evil, inhuman etc".
> 
> You seem to love these grizzly pictures and good for you. 👏




My sympathies for the Russian soldiers has completely evaporated after the mass atrocities they've inflicted upon the Ukrainian people. They've murder thousands of innocents, executed them, looted them, raped them, and destroyed their homes and way of life. The Russians can eat Javelins.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510716591926820866

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510716010080489478

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> My sympathies for the Russian soldiers has completely evaporated after the mass atrocities they've inflicted upon the Ukrainian people. They've murder thousands of innocents, executed them, looted them, raped them, and destroyed their homes and way of life. The Russians can eat Javelins.



Javelin is doing wonder



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510733059267698689

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> Javelin is doing wonder
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510733059267698689




And lets be honest, if it wasn't for the brave Ukrainians armed with NATO weapons, the Russians would have raped and killed their way across the ENTIRE Ukraine.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510665728936103941

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## dBSPL

1 Tank battalion lost everyday!

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510632351050899456


----------



## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510693624434077699
> Antiship Harppons now in Odessa


Wow !! Wow !!! - I wonder what the launch platform and targeting platforms are... 

Damn - Bojo was talking about wanting to send them only a few days ago and now they are there ..


----------



## dBSPL

Ali_Baba said:


> Wow !! Wow !!! - I wonder what the launch platform and targeting platforms are...
> 
> Damn - Bojo was talking about wanting to send them only a few days ago and now they are there ..


Canisters can be fitted in EU standard Containers.

Club-K(Russian) Container Missile System


----------



## F-22Raptor

Ali_Baba said:


> Wow !! Wow !!! - I wonder what the launch platform and targeting platforms are...
> 
> Damn - Bojo was talking about wanting to send them only a few days ago and now they are there ..




Its still unconfirmed though.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510734387729649676

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510691904924569611

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510684133932118017

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Ukrainian position being hit with a tank shell by Pro-Russian forces



Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510636723436466176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510637356147216387


----------



## Ali_Baba

dBSPL said:


> 1 Tank battalion lost everyday!
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510632351050899456



All the photos that Oryx has been analysing has been from Ukrainian held areas by soldiers and the press.

Now that the Russians have been kicked out of northern Ukraine, expect to see a lot more of those that were knocked out by Ukrainian SOF, UAVs and the Ukrainian Airforce. There is a lot of unaccounted for destroyed vehicles that belong to Russia that were behind 'enemy' lines.

Lets see - I expect those numbers to bounce up a lot once accounting catches up with the changing situation on the ground.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510702455595675658

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## Wood

NATO's Poland 'Open' to Hosting U.S. Nuclear Weapons









NATO's Poland 'Open' to Hosting U.S. Nuclear Weapons


Jaroslaw Kaczynski also called for more American troops to shore up Europe's eastern flank and face down Russia.




www.newsweek.com


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510503978919997440


F-22Raptor said:


> Its still unconfirmed though.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510734387729649676




This is bullshit story cooked up by Ukrainians and others in order to blame the Russians while the atrocities were most likely carried out by Azov and co. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510687697513365511

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510698735554244612


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510653633267998726

20 - 50%? German people should overthrow the German govt who participated in a conflict that they didn't belong.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510633931783262213

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## Type59

F-22Raptor said:


> My sympathies for the Russian soldiers has completely evaporated after the mass atrocities they've inflicted upon the Ukrainian people. They've murder thousands of innocents, executed them, looted them, raped them, and destroyed their homes and way of life. The Russians can eat Javelins.



Don't expect people to be sympathetic to Opfor. Just pointing out the bloodlust your experiencing.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510694167441293314
This is Israeli foreign minister..

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## Clutch

Abdulaziz Al-Karimi said:


> that @Clutch is a spammer troll don't converse with him just report him and his way off-topic. I hate these who try to use propaganda means to get sympathy on one side like him.. They disgust me these doing that and I have seen him and another troll called tamerlane doing that🤮
> 
> @waz @LeGenD



You joined in March 2022 and im the troll who's been here for almost a decade?... Lol.

*He wasn't taking to me ... I'm not sure why you tagged me?? *

Don't shoot the messenger.

My whole role on this thread has been to expose Western hypocrisy lies and deceit. This whole Ukraine-Russia war has exposed naked the hypocrisy of the West for those who have eyes and are free men. 

@waz @LeGenD

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510591424902971393

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## ahtan_china



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## Clutch

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510694167441293314
> This is Israeli foreign minister..



Was he talking about the Palestinians?... I'm confused..

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510740701889368064

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## Clutch

F-22Raptor said:


> My sympathies for the Russian soldiers has completely evaporated after the mass atrocities they've inflicted upon the Ukrainian people. They've murder thousands of innocents, executed them, looted them, raped them, and destroyed their homes and way of life. The Russians can eat Javelins.



What about your sympathies for the mass atrocities they've inflicted upon the Iraqi people. The Americns murder thousands of innocents, executed them, looted them, raped them, and destroyed their homes and way of life by the American Invasion of Iraq???

Do you also support posting pics of dead American soldiers in Iraq (if things were still occuring as the did in 2003)????

Hypocrisy exposed...



F-22Raptor said:


> And lets be honest, if it wasn't for the brave Ukrainians armed with NATO weapons, the Russians would have raped and killed their way across the ENTIRE Ukraine.



🍿

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## PakFactor

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510694167441293314
> This is Israeli foreign minister..



He was better of not even tweeting that, Lol.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510748410994905088


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

That Guy said:


> The Russians can say everything and anything they want, it doesn't matter. No one believes them, and no one should believe them.
> 
> The Russian military and economy is worthless at this point.




Russian military and economy is worthless? And how do you come down to that conclusion? The Russian armed forces returned Ukraine to the stone age, they're on the verge of securing the whole Russian-speaking eastern Ukraine, and they opened a land route to Crimea. On the economic front, the European economies are facing crisis due to Russia demanding ruble payments on their gas and other commodities.



Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510694167441293314
> This is Israeli foreign minister..



Judea declared war on Germany in 1939

It seems Judea declared a war on Russia in 2022.

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## khansaheeb

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510285734896353282
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510286246609833986
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510287060996870156
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510288389530136581


Seems like Russian forces are slowly getting routed.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510699596657352706

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510671553121370112

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510770090656120836

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510665057956515845

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510726114058162183
Gary's criticism of the west is harsh, but not without merit. If the sanctions that are imposed on Russia today were imposed right after the invasion of Crimea, then Russia may well have not invaded Ukraine today. The cost of sanctions would have also been easier for the Europeans to bear.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The effects of the Russian-launched TOS1-A on Ukrainian soldiers. Looks like the effects of Russian forces' missile rain of Azov Neo Nazis and their complicit Ukrainian nationalists are beginning to show.



Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510741337867534340


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510776248657760257

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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Russia is using gas, minerals, and food in order to exact a maximum pain on the West. There is already inflation that is skyrocketing, and recession is around the corner.
> 
> Besides, Russia abandoning the fiat money has its gradual effect. So the Western elites want to play both bad cop and good cop at the same time.
> 
> 
> 
> Could be your darling Azov Neo Nazis.


Inflation in the west started WAY before this war, that start from Disrupted Supply Chain issue since April 2021, which altered the supply and demand balance, and that in turn started with COVID 19 Travel restriction limited flight and shipping due to longer quarantine time. 





__





Current US Inflation Rates: 2000-2022 | US Inflation Calculator
 

The annual inflation rate for the United States is 9.1% for the 12 months ended June 2022, the largest annual increase since November 1981 and after rising 8.6% previously, according to U.S. Labor Department data published July 13. The next inflation update is scheduled for release on August 10...




www.usinflationcalculator.com


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510753422219390988
Russia is now a pariah state

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## jhungary

jamal18 said:


> If you listen to what they say, they never had the intention of capturing Kiev. The purpose of this move was to tie down Ukrainian troops and prevent their redeployment futher east.
> 
> The critical area is the Donbass.


A feint is a feint, you "Poise" to attack, so your enemy is forced to put troop inside the area for defence, hence tying down the enemy troop, if you really do attack, then that would not be a Feint, that is an attack. 

Which is what the Russian do, they went in 150 km (didn't quite get the last 6) into Ukraine, when you travel 100 miles down into Enemy Territories, that no longer a "Feint" 

On top of that, when it got stuck near Irpin and Bucha, Russia redirect Force from the East from Sumy and go across North Eastern Ukraine to try to attack Kyiv on the East, that also does not indicate it is a Feint...

And finally, they have dug defence position, if this is a feint, your territories gain is temporary, you don't dig defensive position to try to protect your gain.....

Which mean either the attack toward Kyiv is not a Feint Attack, or Russia is so incompetent and do not even understand how "Feint" attack work..



patero said:


> This pay in roubles move is also just for political purposes to create the impression Putin's Russia and it's economy are stronger than it actually is. The same can be said for the rebound in the value of the rouble, a combination of strict capital controls on outflows and as you mentioned high interest rates are artificially raising the value of the Rouble. Again, it's largely for political purposes but only serves to mask the real state of the Russian economy.
> 
> This pay in Roubles tactic doesn't change the fundamentals of foreign currency transactions, it only changes the order in which foreign currencies are converted to Roubles (by the Russian banks that aren't yet sanctioned) then received by a Russian exporter such as Gazprom, rather than the other way around. It doesn't really change anything.


Yeah, the pay in Rouble deal is so that they don't need to change it within themselves, so you converted the currency for them. This does not play into anything.

Which does beg the question why the Russia attack now. They are just out of (or beginning to out of ) a COVID recession, this is probably the worse point in time to start a war when your country itself still healing from the COVID issue, I mean, they must have see this coming and still invaded, which really do speak of the mind of Putin. 

This war right after COVID recession is probably going to be equal to committing economic suicide.,..

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510778996149084162

The Russian military….the scum of the earth


----------



## jhungary

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510726114058162183
> Gary's criticism of the west is harsh, but not without merit. If the sanctions that are imposed on Russia today were imposed right after the invasion of Crimea, then Russia may well have not invaded Ukraine today. The cost of sanctions would have also been easier for the Europeans to bear.



I would say if the West did this sanction after Russia attack Georgia back in 2008, this would not happen today, EU and the West collectively lost that right to bitch about having to pay high gas price at the pump because this is more or less self-inflicted when they care about cheapness rather than security and future. This short-sightness is what getting the West in the predicament in the first place. And why thousand Ukraine are killed. Yes, The West got off easy.

This will serve as a reminder tho, you can't depend on "Cheapness" as one or more country WILL take advantage over. The West will not simply look at Russia tho, it will also look at China as well, they will see how they can diverse away from the Chinese investment to avoid similar thing happen in the future. So Putin here is not doing the Chinese a favor....



Paul2 said:


> Definitely, Ukrainian push in Kherson is so far only been probing their defences with light infantry.
> 
> They are waiting


They are probably looking at Point of Entry, force deposition and so on, if Russia is smart, they would stop letting Civilian out of Kherson or move them to another city.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510650033586249733

Couldn’t agree more, current Russian government and society need to be completely overhauled along the line of Japan post WW2.


----------



## thetutle

Apollon said:


> On personal note, how you like the new starstreak system delivered to Ukraine? It appears to be extremly effective in destroying russian tanks and helicopters. The constant flow of advanced weapons forced Putin to retreat. He hopes he can hold Donbas but NATO now ships in heavy weapons to allow Ukraine cleansing that area too.


Yes, they seem very effective indeed.


----------



## thetutle

Trango Towers said:


> Do you think in future conflicts that the west fights...Will Russia supply critical equipment such as anti tank and anti aircraft missiles?


No I dont think so. Because its stuff is pretty crap and because russia is sacred of most of the people USA fights. Like the Taliban. or Iran.


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510650033586249733
> 
> Couldn’t agree more, current Russian government and society need to be completely overhauled along the line of Japan post WW2.


Yes, total humiliating defeat is necessary to break the ethno national pride. But Russia has the biggest nuclear stockpile. So Putin may start dropping nukes in the battlefield to prevent a defeat in Ukraine

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## khansaheeb

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The effects of the Russian-launched TOS1-A on Ukrainian soldiers. Looks like the effects of Russian forces' missile rain of Azov Neo Nazis and their complicit Ukrainian nationalists are beginning to show.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510741337867534340











Russia’s TOS-1 Heavy Flamethrower Lobs Brutal Thermobaric Rockets At Close Range


Yesterday’s war news brought with it unconfirmed reports that Russia has deployed TOS-1 Heavy Flamethrower launchers to Ukraine. Mounted atop T-72 tanks, the launchers can unleash rockets with lung-searing thermobaric warheads from two miles away to just a quarter-mile down the street.




www.forbes.com





AEROSPACE & DEFENSE

EDITORS' PICK
Russia’s TOS-1 Heavy Flamethrower Lobs Brutal Thermobaric Rockets At Close Range​Eric Tegler
Contributor
Follow
Mar 2, 2022,09:30am EST

Listen to article4 minutes

https://policies.google.com/privacy





YEKATERINBURG, RUSSIA - APRIL 11, 2018: A TOS-1A heavy flamethrower (front) moves along a street ... [+]
DONAT SOROKIN/TASS
Yesterday’s war news brought with it unconfirmed reports that Russia has deployed TOS-1 Heavy Flamethrower launchers to Ukraine. Mounted atop T-72 tanks, the launchers can unleash rockets with lung-searing thermobaric warheads from two miles away to just a quarter-mile down the street.

A senior U.S. defense official reportedly affirmed that Russia has sent TOS-1s (nicknamed the “Buratino” after a long-nosed Tolstoy character) into Ukraine on Tuesday following a claim from Ukrainian ambassador to the U.S., Oksana Markarova, that Russian forces have used a “vacuum bomb” in Ukraine.
Russia is believed to have used thermobaric rockets in Chechnya in 2000, and more recently in Syria, while some analysts assert Russian-supported separatists in the Donbas region have used them in the past few years.
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Older thermobaric munitions employ a solid or liquid explosive container and two separate explosive charges. When such a weapon is dropped or launched, the first charge detonates to disperse a fine cloud of particles of the solid or liquid. The second charge ignites the dispersed material and oxygen in the air.
All thermobaric explosives differ from normal ones in that the blast wave is generated by burning material — typically powdered aluminum — in the expanding outer edge of a fireball, producing a blast wave of much greater duration that generates a much larger negative phase — a reversal which sucks air back towards the point of explosion as the fireball cools — hence their description as a “vacuum bomb.” Beyond blast effects, thermobaric devices can cause severe internal organ damage and asphyxiation.
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MOSCOW, RUSSIA - JUNE 18, 2020: A serviceman stands on a TOS-1A Buratino multiple rocket launcher in ... [+]
MIKHAIL TERESHCHENKO/TASS

The TOS-1 fires 220 mm rockets with two types of warheads: incendiary and thermobaric. According to data from Military-Today, the website of defense author Andrius Genys, the launcher system has 30 tubes (24 for an updated TOS-1A variant) and the ability to launch a single rocket or a pair of rockets within half-a-second. Full salvo duration is 7.5 to 15 seconds and covers an area of 650 by 1,300 feet. Later versions of the launcher increased rocket range to over 3.5 miles and can be fitted to 6X6 military trucks.



Forbes Business



READ MORE












‘It’s A Living’ Star Barrie Youngfellow DiesAt 75








The thermobaric rockets that the Buratino fires are not precision weapons. They are designed for close-in engagements of the kind the Russian Army is likely to undertake in the days ahead, namely in urban firefights. In the apartment complexes, subway and government buildings of Kyiv they can be brutally effective, shielding Russian forces from the risky task of door-to-door combat and terrorizing the civilian populace in the process.
Their very introduction to the theater may be to make up for a deficit in Russian smart weapon stockpiles and training, according to some analysts. As the Center for Arms Control notes, there is a legal argument that thermobaric weapons may be prohibited under the United Nations Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons. However, they are not explicitly listed. Since the U.S. also keeps them in its inventory, the center asserts that “it is unlikely that they will be explicitly listed or that there will be a treaty banning their use.”
The attention on and possible use of thermobaric weapons (introduced in the 1960s) is a reminder that even limited war quickly degenerates into a low technology, personal and vicious fight when the combatants are determined or desperate. The mere presence of the Buratino is enough to demonstrate the levels of determination and desperation in Ukraine now.

Follow me on Twitter.

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## CAPRICORN-88

mmr said:


> You are the one who is trolling. Maybe ppl should start to saying chinese were not *** fucked by japan during second world war and china man killed Chinese them self.
> 
> 
> He is fucking troll. Winnie the poh will be very proud.


*Stop trolling*.

Japan which was herself a victim of the US hegemony when US Commodore Mathew Perry forcifully sail into the Bay of Tokyo back in 1853.
Later Japan in humiliation returned, became the Asian monster herself and annexed first the Kingdom of Ryuku then later attack Qing China unprovoked and forced a vain and weak Empress Dowager who hate war to sign unequal treaty e.g. Sekimonseki Treaty where Taiwan was ceased forcifully to her, etc.
She then attacked Korea and eliminate the entire lineage of Korean royal heritage by kidnapping the surviving Princess to Japan. She died in captivity.

Of course trolls like you lacking in the knowledge of real Asian history will conveniently disregard the facts that a *defeated Japan had to hand over Taiwan and all the SCS islanda back to The rightful owner CHiNA* backed in 1945 with the assistance of the USN then.

Best you asked your granny if she is still living and you are a Chinese.
Otherwise of barking incessantly whixh to us is all noise.

In other words just another trolling busybody and interloper in disbelief.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510724273530408968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510723864300597255

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509870116728627205

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510708381119565828


----------



## jhungary

@mmr quit arguing with the infirm and the insane lol

When he said US is a Hegemony back in 1853, you should know this is a hint you should not further with this......

LOL

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510740608377315334


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> The last resort of all Putler trolls. When nothing helps...Libya! Iraq! Hyrule! Mushroom Kingdom.


You are indeed a racist based on your post. 

Your motivation is driven by your hatred towards another race. I have not met another person who claimed to be a a Greek and like you. 

So stop the nonsense, defending yourself by simply saying that the *Russian, German and Greek belongs to a race. *
DNA proved that they are NOT. 
German are German. 
Russia are more Slavic e.g. Danish or Norwegian. 
Greek were just settlers residing to the South of Russia more analogous to Gypsy in that sense. 

Ukrainian and Russian are much more closer in that sense.



Apollon said:


> We see what happens when Russians take ukrainian citizens, they murder evryone. Better fight and they do that very sucessful.


Commonsense tells us if that was the original Russian objective and agenda, Ukraine will be still a part of Russia today after the breakup of Soviet Union.

So stop your nonsense.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510698438102597641


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510663770535870464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510713586041204738

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510679502631817219


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510601269559406595

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510602038706675719

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510604769135628290

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510606487642640387

Russian barbarians

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## Oldman1

Ali_Baba said:


> Ukraine has taken the best of Russia's blow's and they are still standing. Can Russia take Ukraines blows? Especially with NATO and EU support of weapons and intelligence information? Russia's hasty withdrawal from the north and redeployment of their forces to the south suggests they are massively worried about the Ukrainian counter-attack and they run the risk of now losing Crimea and the Donbas regions if they don't reinforce those regions.
> 
> All of Ukraines actions have been tactical and centred around "holding the line". This war is now changing to the next stage of the war.
> 
> The west is now going to provide Tanks and more offensive weapons not because Russia has destroyed Ukraines - but because more Ukrainian men and women have now been trained and are now coming online and combined with offensive equipment like tanks and artillery, they can now take the fight to the Russian's directly rather than defending which has been what Ukraine has been doing since the start of this war.
> 
> You may now even see those Mig29s turn up as the direction of war has changed and they represent more value now than at the beginning as Russia is running out of precision/smart weapons.


With the Ukrainians sending reinforcements from North to east, south and south east they definitely need to really get into the offensive quickly before the Russians adapt and take hold in the southern region.


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## DF41

. 

🥁🥁🥁🤣🤣🤣. 

Murica losing petrodollar 

🤣🤣🤣💪💪💪

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## Oldman1

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> As I said, no credence to these stories or video clips which were recycled over and over again.
> 
> Offering no clue to when it happened or whether they were edited.
> 
> So when did it happened, in the beginning or last week? Or staged.


You can say it was staged or not, that's your choice what to believe.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510711478764163081


Good time to go on the offensive more before they can resupply, repair and rearm and bring in more troops.


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## F-22Raptor

It’s becoming clearer by the day that the Russians, under Vladimir Putin, are the modern day Nazis. Putin needs to be exterminated

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## Oldman1

jamal18 said:


> If you listen to what they say, they never had the intention of capturing Kiev. The purpose of this move was to tie down Ukrainian troops and prevent their redeployment futher east.
> 
> The critical area is the Donbass.


Well they did a bad job on that. Since the whole entire Russian forces in the North is gone and clean out the rest all the way to Sumy, they can send them south since tens of thousands of Ukrainian troops have hold back the Russian forces in Donbas. Just look at the map...


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## Wood

Oldman1 said:


> Good time to go on the offensive more before they can resupply, repair and rearm and bring in more troops.


I heard this from an analyst in the news show as well. Ukraine will be trying to go on the offensive in East and make some gains before Russia can reposition their forces.

I hope that the Ukrainians will go after the southern coast.

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## DF41

Listen to what’s going on from a media that’s not bought or supported by pro-west oligarchs.
G Galloway MOATs  And all because Pakistan friendly with China and in Moscow to sign deals of oil and grain for Pakistan and refusing to join in the gang rape on Russia instigated and organised and financed by USA that USA wanted regime change in Pakistan


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510659732276715525

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## DF41

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Sanctions will only be lifted if Russia abandons the SPFS and CHIPS financial systems; otherwise, the conflict between Russia and the West will forever go on.




After a summer of rioting and a winter of freezing, West be crawling on hands and knees to Kremlin begging to surrender

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## Oldman1

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510659732276715525


Does the U.S. or U.K. even have any ground based Harpoon missiles, what about the rest of Europe? Wonder if we can provide more modern anti ship missile platforms if not Harpoons or Exocets.


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## Oldman1

Wood said:


> I heard this from an analyst in the news show as well. Ukraine will be trying to go on the offensive in East and make some gains before Russia can reposition their forces.
> 
> I hope that the Ukrainians will go after the southern coast.


I use Kharkiv to attack the forces in east and flank them if possible and Zaphorizhzhia to push towards Melitopol and the rest of south while getting rid of of the forces in Kherson region and take the city. If the Russians blow up the bridge at Kherson, then its ok and just go around, at least the Russians can't take Kherson anymore.

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## F-22Raptor

Oldman1 said:


> I use Kharkiv to attack the forces in east and flank them if possible and Zaphorizhzhia to push towards Melitopol and the rest of south while getting rid of of the forces in Kherson region and take the city. If the Russians blow up the bridge at Kherson, then its ok and just go around, at least the Russians can't take Kherson anymore.



Yep, they need to flank the Russian forces east of Kharkiv


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510647981590077443


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510546301821280256

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## Oldman1




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## The SC

Oldman1 said:


> Does the U.S. or U.K. even have any ground based Harpoon missiles, what about the rest of Europe? Wonder if we can provide more modern anti ship missile platforms if not Harpoons or Exocets.


There is a coastal defense system based on the Exocet.. called " The EXOCET MOBILE COASTAL DEFENCE SYSTEM " made by MBDA


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## Oldman1

The SC said:


> There is a coastal defense system based on the Exocet.. called " The EXOCET MOBILE COASTAL DEFENCE SYSTEM " made by MBDA
> 
> View attachment 830322


I'm assuming its not operational since this is CGI.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510825060470300680

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## The SC

Oldman1 said:


> I'm assuming its not operational since this is CGI.


It is combat proven..

https://www.mbda-systems.com/product/exocet-mobile-coastal-defence-system/


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## Apollon

EU will open a war crime tribunal against Russia: 









EU must discuss import ban on Russian gas, Germany says


Germany has so far resisted calls to impose an embargo on energy imports from Russia, saying its economy and that of other European countries are too dependent on them.




www.reuters.com





The russian regime will be destroyed.

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## Oldman1

The SC said:


> It is combat proven..
> 
> https://www.mbda-systems.com/product/exocet-mobile-coastal-defence-system/


Yeah but I'm looking around and don't see a ground based or shore based version of this in real life.


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## EAGLE777

Apollon said:


> How much benefits it Greece when in 5 years russian facist army invades us, murders civilians and destroys evrything?
> 
> Russia is a facist regime like nazi germany in the 1930th. We must destroy it, no matter what. That they get crushed in Ukraine prevents them from attacking further. They must and will be destroyed completly in Ukraine. Evry russian soldier who gets destroyed, evry russian tank destroyed cant be used to attack Europe.


What happend to Orthodox brotherhood isn’t Russia your Orthodox brother?


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## Oldman1

sur said:


> Provided UA has resources to pull that.
> Kharkiv & Zaphorizhzhia may need reinforcement to do such.
> But problem is, maps show RU making multiple hits in far west UA, so probably RU keeping an eye on movements and taking ad-hoc actions.
> Any reinforcement attempt towards these 2 cities may be targeted well before reaching there.


Yeah but the attacks in the western Ukraine are all against static targets not moving, and the Russians are not risking their aircraft being sent into that area to hunt down forces coming in from west or even north.


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## EAGLE777

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> You are so sure Russia will invade Greece?
> Have you considered Turkey will beat Russia to it?


Hey keep Turkey out of this. 😜


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## Chak Bamu

Muhammed45 said:


> The thread is overrun by NATO bots removing and bullying people with different thoughts by throwing direct insults at them and name calling them. @Chak Bamu sir, please watch this bot @Apollon


My friend, I have no moderating powers. Please report his post.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Does the U.S. or U.K. even have any ground based Harpoon missiles, what about the rest of Europe? Wonder if we can provide more modern anti ship missile platforms if not Harpoons or Exocets.


They did, they have both Sea Eagle and Land Based Harpoon and it is already in Odesa

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## CAPRICORN-88

The dogma of the US and NATO nations is To Divide and Rule.

IMO if Russia really wants to takeover the whole of Ukriane, it can be easily done but that was never their military objectives.

When Nazi Germany invaded Europe, they care very little for the lost of innocent human lives destroyed everything in their path. Example V1 and V2 over Britain. 

So I am naturally surprise when Putin took the more humanitarian approach to minimize the lost of lives and does encirclement instead.

Maybe he regarded Ukrainians as misguided former Russians.
For the rest like thw US and Europeans they have no conscience as see it as act by proxy against Russia.

In a flat terrain like Ukraine, the Russian soldiers can only hide behind their armour vehicles and tanks in order to protect themselves. They are frustrated as professional army that they are hiding behind their vehicles instead of launching a fullscale all out attacks.

This is where the US and West do not understand how Asians fight their wars and suffered humiliating defeats deapite their overwhelmingly firepower.

No more as many nation esp. China has developed deadly weapons with devastating firepower. The US can even eavesdrop on enemy like China.
China deployed quantum telecommunication for their military.

Russia may actually turned to China for the acquisition of advance weaponries after Ukraine e.g. UCAVs, waveriders, EM guns, etc. And NATO will be in real troubles.

That is my opinion and no one needs to response in disagreement as TIME will tell and on China Russia side.

IMO No way Ukraine can hope to get out of this militarily.

Only a political settlement will pave the way to peace. And it is not a queation of RIGHT or WRONG.

With Superpower one rarely gets an option. So stop dreaming.

India appears to be waking up in view of the threats issued the US.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510815049891266566

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510770687216078849


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## tower9

Piotr said:


> Zelensky rejected peace offer days before Russian offensive – WSJ​3 Apr, 2022 13:10
> 
> German Chancellor had reportedly attempted to convince the Ukrainian leader to drop NATO membership plan
> 
> German chancellor Olaf Scholz had offered Volodymyr Zelensky a chance for peace just days before the launch of the Russian military offensive, but the Ukrainian president turned it down, the Wall Street Journal (WSJ) has reported.
> 
> Scholz had made what the US outlet described as _“one last push for a settlement between Moscow and Kiev”_ less than a week before the Russian forces were sent into Ukraine on February 24.
> 
> The chancellor told Zelensky in Munich on February 19 “_that Ukraine should renounce its NATO aspirations and declare neutrality as part of a wider European security deal between the West and Russia,”_ the paper writes. The daily also claims that _“the pact would be signed by Mr. Putin and Mr. Biden, who would jointly guarantee Ukraine’s security.”_
> 
> However, Zelensky rejected the offer to make the concession and avoid confrontation, saying that _“[Russia’s President Vladimir] Putin couldn’t be trusted to uphold such an agreement and that most Ukrainians wanted to join NATO,”_ the WSJ reports, without revealing its sources for the information.
> 
> _“His answer left German officials worried that the chances of peace were fading,”_ the report points out.
> 
> Scholz and Zelensky did meet on that day on the sidelines of the Munich Security Conference, at which each delivered an address.
> 
> Russia attacked its neighbor in late February, following Ukraine’s failure to implement the terms of the Minsk agreements signed in 2014, and Russia’s eventual recognition of the Donbass republics in Donetsk and Lugansk. The German and French brokered protocols had been designed to regularize the status of those regions within the Ukrainian state.
> 
> Russia has now demanded that Ukraine officially declare itself a neutral country that will never join the US-led NATO military bloc. Kiev insists the Russian offensive was completely unprovoked and has denied claims it was planning to retake the rebel regions by force.
> 
> https://www.rt.com/news/553213-zelensky-scholz-ukraine-peace/
> 
> People are dying now because of USA and this clown Zelensky.



Of course, because Zelensky is the global front man of ZOG. He wants Ukraine to fight this war for global ZOG. He doesn't care, it's not his people who are dying.

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## Oldman1

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510770687216078849


Well duh, Green energy and less dependent on Russian fossil fuels that they would have to bow down to them. Just like you see Latvia, tough against Russia but have to pay in rubles.


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## WotTen

SilentEagle said:


> What happend to Orthodox brotherhood isn’t Russia your Orthodox brother?



Both Ukraine and Russia are Orthodox but Ukrainian Orthodox is closer to Greek Orthodox. Russian Orthodox is closer to Armenian and Palestinian Orthodox.

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## Oldman1

tower9 said:


> Of course, because Zelensky is the global front man of ZOG. He wants Ukraine to fight this war for global ZOG. He doesn't care, it's not his people who are dying.


Doesn't matter, Russia wanted all of Ukraine, failing that, they want Donbas, failing that, they probably try to get something else. NATO was secondary.


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## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> EU will open a war crime tribunal against Russia:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU must discuss import ban on Russian gas, Germany says
> 
> 
> Germany has so far resisted calls to impose an embargo on energy imports from Russia, saying its economy and that of other European countries are too dependent on them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The russian regime will be destroyed.


Or will UN acts against the Ukrainian AZOV neo-nazi terrorists. Why only at the Russian and not others, are you a racist?


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## tower9

Oldman1 said:


> Doesn't matter, Russia wanted all of Ukraine, failing that, they want Donbas, failing that, they probably try to get something else. NATO was secondary.



I don't think we know what Russia really wanted. If I were to guess, Putin probably thought Ukraine would cave easily and he could replace Zelensky with a Kremlin friendly leadership but of course, things went way off track and it became a war of attrition. I think his goal now is to take Novorossiya at least and shelter Crimea.

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## Oldman1

tower9 said:


> I don't think we know what Russia really wanted. If I were to guess, Putin probably thought Ukraine would cave easily and he could replace Zelensky with a Kremlin friendly leadership but of course, things went way off track and it became a war of attrition. I think his goal now is to take Novorossiya at least and shelter Crimea.


He wants everything in Ukraine, if he can't get it, then as least try to conquer Donbas. As they said it was Stage 1 on Kiev and the rest of northern Ukraine and trying to take Odessa as some posters mentioned trying to keep Ukraine landlocked. Now its stage 2.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510725496597843973


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## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> Will dismiss your propaganda as well.
> 
> 1. Never was any promise to not expand eastward.
> 
> 2. Russia has violated eastern europe for hundreds of years. Eastern european nations need NATO to protect them from Russia. If Ukraine would be in NATO, it would not have been attacked.
> 
> 3. NATO will now station nuclear weapons in Poland to deter any russian attempt to attack eastern member states. No concessions to the russian facists.


Propaganda???

Some investigative journalist found it filed in the British Archives.

Much like Minsk II agreement filed with the UN. Don't dismissed it lightly.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510685711162384393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510681229221404676

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## tower9

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510685711162384393



This is just the beginning. 

So is Germany going to pay for gas in rubles or what?

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## EAGLE777

WotTen said:


> Both Ukraine and Russia are Orthodox but Ukrainian Orthodox is closer to Greek Orthodox. Russian Orthodox is closer to Armenian and Palestinian Orthodox.


Ukraine has it’s own church and own branch of Orthodox iirc even seperate of Greeks and Armenians.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510624575545135106

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510671211499560963


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## CAPRICORN-88

tower9 said:


> This is just the beginning.
> 
> So is Germany going to pay for gas in rubles or what?


In the end only the innocent people in EU suffers for something that has nothing to do with them.

War in Azerbaijan or Cyprus has nothing to do with them either but did not escalated because they were proxies of NATO.

It is burning a hole in their pocket and the politicians responded by pointing it out it was the price for electing them into office.

Now pay for it and shut up, they cried. Then the people said as in all so-called free democratic nation, just wait till the next election and that will be 4~5 years away.

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## sammuel

tower9 said:


> This is just the beginning.
> 
> So is Germany going to pay for gas in rubles or what?




Russian gas still flowing despite rouble deadline​









Russian gas still flowing despite rouble deadline







global.chinadaily.com.cn

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## Soldier35

Footage of the combat departure of Ka-52 attack helicopters of the Russian Aerospace Forces was published by the Ministry of Defense. The combat mission was to find and destroy the camouflaged positions of the Ukrainian army. The pilots successfully completed the task by using guided and unguided S-8 missiles from low altitudes.






After the transfer of a group of Russian troops from Kiev to Donbass to complete a special operation to liberate these territories, Ukrainian troops entered the Antonov International Airport in the village of Gostomel. One of the eyewitnesses took a close-up of the wreckage of the largest aircraft in the world An-225 "Mriya". Ukraine destroyed the world's largest AN-225 Mriya transport aircraft with its own hands. It happened because of the shelling of Antonov airport by Ukrainian troops.

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## BHAN85

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> In the end only the innocent people in EU suffers for something that has nothing to do with them.
> 
> War in Azerbaijan or Cyprus has nothing to do with them either but did not escalated because they were proxies of NATO.
> 
> It is burning a hole in their pocket and the politicians responded by pointing it out it was the price for electing them into office.
> 
> Now pay for it and shut up, they cried. Then the people said as in all so-called free democratic nation, just wait till the next election and that will be 4~5 years away.



EU people is brainwashed by western mainstream massmedia, and they are happy hating Kremlin.

They can't understand the economic consequences and even when they will live it, maybe they wont relation it with war.

Here in Spain electric energy prices are high since months ago before war, due to gas prices, and most of people can't understand the relation with make troubles in relations with Russia. They just blame their own government due to bad handle and that is all.

Democracy is not useful when people is brainless

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## tower9

BHAN85 said:


> EU people is brainwashed by western mainstream massmedia, and they are happy hating Kremlin.
> 
> They can't understand the economic consequences and even when they will live it, maybe they wont relation it with war.
> 
> Here in Spain electric energy prices are high since months ago before war, due to gas prices, and most of people can't understand the relation with make troubles in relations with Russia. They just blame their own government due to bad handle and that is all.
> 
> Democracy is not useful when people is brainless


It is shocking to me how little logic and intelligence most Europeans have when analyzing this whole situation. I guess the Zionists have really controlled the message well.

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## BHAN85

DF41 said:


> .
> 
> 🥁🥁🥁🤣🤣🤣.
> 
> Murica losing petrodollar
> 
> 🤣🤣🤣💪💪💪



Venezuela sells oil in RMB since years ago, and Venezuelan people still love more dollars than anything else, even thinking dollar is not officiail in Veneuzela.



tower9 said:


> It is shocking to me how little logic and intelligence most Europeans have when analyzing this whole situation. I guess the Zionists have really controlled the message well.



It's just something emotional.

Russia is big and is attacking someone small like Ukraine. And massmedia talk about that without stop everyday.

So people reacts emotionally and are willing to pay the economic price of hate Russia.

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## CAPRICORN-88

tower9 said:


> This is just the beginning.
> 
> So is Germany going to pay for gas in rubles or what?


In the end only the innocent people in EU suffers for something that has nothing to do with them.

War in Azerbaijan or Cyprus has nothing to do with them either but did not escalated because they were proxies of NATO.

It is burning a hole in their pocket and the politicians responded by pointing it out it was the price for electing us into office.

Now pay for it and shut up, they cried. Then the people said as in all so-called free democratic nation, just wait till the next election and that will be 4~5 years away.


BHAN85 said:


> EU people is brainwashed by western mainstream massmedia, and they are happy hating Kremlin.
> 
> They can't understand the economic consequences and even when they will live it, maybe they wont relation it with war.
> 
> Here in Spain electric energy prices are high since months ago before war, due to gas prices, and most of people can't understand the relation with make troubles in relations with Russia. They just blame their own government due to bad handle and that is all.
> 
> Democracy is not useful when people is brainless


When politicians play games, the common folks in the street suffer and pay for it.

Spanish should asked themselves what has the conflict in Ukraine instigated by the US supported by the newly recruited former members of Soviet Union who joined NATO has to do with them?

Chinese is smart. They see opportunity and bought cheap LNG oil and gas from Russia at a discount.

And why should the Chinese be blamed for being opportunistic?

It is business as usual. India also jumped into the wagon and bought some. And they are happy.

Today only the Europeans are unhappy at the high price of US gas. Unfortunately the politicians called all the shots. After election the people are just insignificant ants. 

So carry on and Happy fighting. Creating propaganda is big business in Ukraine. NED offers good money.

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## Clutch

*Jewish Group Fully Endorses Ukranian Nazi Group.*

The union of Nazi and Zionist

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## tower9

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> In the end only the innocent people in EU suffers for something that has nothing to do with them.
> 
> War in Azerbaijan or Cyprus has nothing to do with them either but did not escalated because they were proxies of NATO.
> 
> It is burning a hole in their pocket and the politicians responded by pointing it out it was the price for electing us into office.
> 
> Now pay for it and shut up, they cried. Then the people said as in all so-called free democratic nation, just wait till the next election and that will be 4~5 years away.
> 
> When politicians play games, the common folks in the street suffer and pay for it.
> 
> Spanish should asked themselves what has the conflict in Ukraine instigated by the US supported by the newly recruited former members of Soviet Union who joined NATO has to do with them?
> 
> Chinese is smart. They see opportunity and bought cheap LNG oil and gas from Russia at a discount.
> 
> And why should the Chinese be blamed for being opportunistic?
> 
> It is business as usual. India also jumped into the wagon and bought some. And they are happy.
> 
> Today only the Europeans are unhappy at the high price of US gas. Unfortunately the politicians called all the shots. After election the people are just insignificant ants.
> 
> So carry on and Happy fighting. Creating propaganda is big business in Ukraine. NED offers good money.


American corporations are happy though. Record profits from gas and weapons sales.

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510707760387829771


----------



## coffee_cup

That Guy said:


> This isn't gonna make much of a difference. The Ruble is only temporarily being held up, and once a few months pass, the Ruble will likely crash so long as sanctions remain in place, which they will.



Unfortunately your prediction about Ruble has fallen flat previously as well.

You were predicting a total crash for Ruble within a very short period of time (less than a month or so) but here we are and Ruble has gone in the opposite direction trading at 83-85 against the dollar.

You were also telling us by citing some Western sources that the war is costing Russia $ 20 billion a day. Even though the costliest war to date carried by the USA 1000s of miles away from home was costing them like $20 million a day or so. So my advice would be to use common sense before blindly buying into propaganda.

What will happen in future, no body knows and only time will tell. But for now what we know is that Ruble is getting stronger by the day and those who were saying it is worthless like a "toilet paper" are in shell shock. 

Seem like Russians are not that stupid after all.

PS: We all want this war to end already yesterday and we all want that Ukrainian people return to their homes and peaceful solution is found. But we do not believe into propaganda spread by the "Regime changing" bully USA. Yes we in Pakistan have just seen that.

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## Piotr

tower9 said:


> Of course, because Zelensky is the global front man of ZOG. He wants Ukraine to fight this war for global ZOG. He doesn't care, it's not his people who are dying.



Very well said. It's not Zelensky's people that are dying.

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## Clutch

DF41 said:


> .
> 
> 🥁🥁🥁🤣🤣🤣.
> 
> Murica losing petrodollar
> 
> 🤣🤣🤣💪💪💪



Great video post... Shows that the seismic changes happening in the financial world are really an an accelerated paradigm change from the UD Dollar hegemony to the East (primarily China)...

Russian exclusion from SWIFT now makes it possible for smaller vulnerable nation to survive off of an alternative CIPS system.

The West just shot themselves in the foot... The Arab Petro-Dollar has been feeding them all these decades... No gratitude... Just bombs

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510791032224497673

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510791970200948744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510612515272765446🚜


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## Clutch

DF41 said:


> .
> 
> 🥁🥁🥁🤣🤣🤣.
> 
> Murica losing petrodollar
> 
> 🤣🤣🤣💪💪💪



Great video post... Shows that the seismic changes happening in the financial world are really an an accelerated paradigm change from the UD Dollar hegemony to the East (primarily China)...

Russian exclusion from SWIFT now makes it possible for smaller vulnerable nation to survive off of an alternative CIPS syst


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510753422219390988
> Russia is now a pariah state



I think it's all fake News. All the atrocities are committed by the Ukrainian Nationalists and the Nazi Azov Battalion Right-Sector and followers of Stefan Bandera... That's a fact.

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510885893002911750

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## jhungary

Clutch said:


> Great video post... Shows that the seismic changes happening in the financial world are really an an accelerated paradigm change from the UD Dollar hegemony to the East (primarily China)...
> 
> Russian exclusion from SWIFT now makes it possible for smaller vulnerable nation to survive off of an alternative CIPS syst
> 
> 
> I think it's all fake News. All the atrocities are committed by the Ukrainian Nationalists and the Nazi Azov Battalion Right-Sector and followers of Stefan Bandera... That's a fact.


So you think people in the world is just idiots?

These body is not too fresh enough to be killed within the last 48 hours (most of them have their skin under their fingernail blacken) and not long enough to wait for 4 weeks which will start decomposition. They are in the first stage of Post Mortem Interval, which is between 1 to 3 weeks. That time it is during Russian Occupation.

Unless you are accusing the Nazi Azov somehow sneak into Russian Control Bucha and killed all these people in the street without the Russian knowing?? This is the handy work of the Russian.

I mean Putin can treat people under his rules like an Idiot, people outside his rules is not exactly that dumb...

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## That Guy

coffee_cup said:


> Unfortunately your prediction about Ruble has fallen flat previously as well.
> 
> You were predicting a total crash for Ruble within a very short period of time (less than a month or so) but here we are and Ruble has gone in the opposite direction trading at 83-85 against the dollar.
> 
> You were also telling us by citing some Western sources that the war is costing Russia $ 20 billion a day. Even though the costliest war to date carried by the USA 1000s of miles away from home was costing them like $20 million a day or so. So my advice would be to use common sense before blindly buying into propaganda.
> 
> What will happen in future, no body knows and only time will tell. But for now what we know is that Ruble is getting stronger by the day and those who were saying it is worthless like a "toilet paper" are in shell shock.
> 
> Seem like Russians are not that stupid after all.
> 
> PS: We all want this war to end already yesterday and we all want that Ukrainian people return to their homes and peaceful solution is found. But we do not believe into propaganda spread by the "Regime changing" bully USA. Yes we in Pakistan have just seen that.


The ruble went from 12 to a dollar to 100 to a dollar to barely 80 to a dollar. I don't know what your definition of a crash is, or what you expected a crash to do.

Also, the cost of war is likely in the tens of billions daily. You kept making this bullshit excuse that it would cost Russia trillions in a year as a way to dismiss my argument, when I clearly indicated this war wouldn't last a year, because Russia would eventually run out of money, which is exactly what is happening. The fact that you cannot tell the difference between the costs of a conventional war and an unconventional one is telling.

Don't bring up what's happening in Pakistan, because you are blatantly trying to appeal to emotion.

The Russians are dumb, the fact that they're being pushed back is evidence enough of that. The only ones in shock and denial are the people who keep saying "Russia stronk 💪!", so I suggest you stop while you're ahead.

By the way, you aren't nearly as smart as you pretend to be. I've been playing nice because I don't wanna get the mods upset, but watch your tone with me.

@LeGenD @RescueRanger

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## Muhammed45

Russia unveiled its major plan in Ukraine, creation of Novo-Russia (New Ukraine).


Unfortunately it didn't include Sumy and Chernihiv. Defected buffer zone around Russian borders but at least Russian speaking people could get rid of Neo-Nazis. Most importantly Russia becomes neighbor of Moldova, long awaited, it is the best outcome of it.

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## That Guy

jhungary said:


> So you think people in the world is just idiots?
> 
> These body is not too fresh enough to be killed within the last 48 hours (most of them have their skin blacken) and not long enough to wait for 4 weeks which will start decomposition. They are in the first stage of Post Mortem Interval, which is between 1 to 3 weeks. That time it is during Russian Occupation.
> 
> Unless you are accusing the Nazi Azov somehow sneak into Russian Control Bucha and killed all these people in the street without the Russian knowing?? This is the handy work of the Russian.
> 
> I mean Putin can treat people under his rules like an Idiot, people outside his rules is not exactly that dumb...


Russia pulled this same bullshit in places like Chechnya, yet Russian supporters keep denying it.

On a side note, and no offense to you, but the amount of white worship, and brown people getting personally invested in what is essentially a white war is insane.



Muhammed45 said:


> Russia unveiled its major plan in Ukraine, creation of Novo-Russia (New Ukraine).
> 
> 
> Unfortunately it didn't include Sumy and Chernihiv. Defected buffer zone around Russian borders but at least Russian speaking people could get rid of Neo-Nazis. Most importantly Russia becomes neighbor of Moldova, long awaited, it is the best outcome of it.
> 
> View attachment 830383


Yeah, that's not gonna happen. With a Russian retreat from the north, the Ukrainians are now free to start pushing in the west and south. Novorossiya is a dead on arrival concept.

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## jhungary

That Guy said:


> Russia pulled this same bullshit in places like Chechnya, yet Russian supporters keep denying it.
> 
> On a side note, and no offense to you, but the amount of white worship, and brown people getting personally invested in what is essentially a white war is insane.
> 
> 
> Yeah, that's not gonna happen. With a Russian retreat from the north, the Ukrainians are now free to start pushing in the west and south. Novorossiya is a dead on arrival concept.


None taken, to me, these people who worship one white (Russian) killing the other White (Ukrainian) when they "Condemn" white people (Most American) killing Brown is well, just a hypocrite in my books. 

I mean, I am okay if people call me name for something I believe in, these people here worshipping the Russian don't really know what they believe in, as in Russian does not have their share of killing Brown and Yellow people......(People tend to forget Russian was involved in Afghanistan just 10 or so year before we are involved, and the Russian even Killed Chinese on the Russo-China border conflict and the Sino-Russian Split. And Russia is also directly involved in killing Korean (flying for North Korea) Iraqi (by arming and taking side in Iran-Iraq war) but well, seems to me these people have a really short memory...

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## That Guy

jhungary said:


> None taken, to me, these people who worship one white (Russian) killing the other White (Ukrainian) when they "Condemn" white people (Most American) killing Brown is well, just a hypocrite in my books.
> 
> I mean, I am okay if people call me name for something I believe in, these people here worshipping the Russian don't really know what they believe in, as in Russian does not have their share of killing Brown and Yellow people......(People tend to forget Russian was involved in Afghanistan just 10 or so year before we are involved, and the Russian even Killed Chinese on the Russo-China border conflict and the Sino-Russian Split. And Russia is also directly involved in killing Korean (flying for North Korea) Iraqi (by arming and taking side in Iran-Iraq war) but well, seems to me these people have a really short memory...


The Russians tried to break Pakistan, a goal they still share with India, and Balochistan insurgency is a direct child of Russian policies towards Pakistan. Yet, I see so many Pakistanis who consider themselves nationalists to simply believe everything Russia says.

Honestly, it'd be funny if it wasn't so disgusting.

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## Muhammed45

jhungary said:


> None taken, to me, these people who worship one white (Russian) killing the other White (Ukrainian) when they "Condemn" white people (Most American) killing Brown is well, just a hypocrite in my books.
> 
> I mean, I am okay if people call me name for something I believe in, these people here worshipping the Russian don't really know what they believe in, as in Russian does not have their share of killing Brown and Yellow people......(People tend to forget Russian was involved in Afghanistan just 10 or so year before we are involved, and the Russian even Killed Chinese on the Russo-China border conflict and the Sino-Russian Split. And Russia is also directly involved in killing Korean (flying for North Korea) Iraqi (by arming and taking side in Iran-Iraq war) but well, seems to me these people have a really short memory...


You are talking about Soviets.


----------



## jhungary

That Guy said:


> The Russians tried to break Pakistan, a goal they still share with India, and Balochistan insurgency is a direct child of Russian policies towards Pakistan. Yet, I see so many Pakistanis who consider themselves nationalists to simply believe everything Russia says.
> 
> Honestly, it'd be funny if it wasn't so disgusting.


lol, that's goes without saying.

I mean, I don't even know how or why a people from a country would cheer another country that supplies weapon to your enemy and killed your own people with. I mean, that's just not logical....

Just because they hated US more (Or Israel) that still wouldn't make sense. I mean sure, US probably was using Pakistan. But Russia supply weapon to India and kill Pakistani....and here you see Pakistani cheer for Russia......

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## Muhammed45

Let us agree to disagree. Russian forces are leaving other areas while concentrating on southern front. What could Ukraine do after all, i mean, except for destroying own bridges, buildings etc?


That Guy said:


> Yeah, that's not gonna happen. With a Russian retreat from the north, the Ukrainians are now free to start pushing in the west and south. Novorossiya is a dead on arrival concept.

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## jhungary

Muhammed45 said:


> You are talking about Soviets.


So, Russia is NOT a part of Soviet??

Only Ukrainian, Pole, Kazakh, Tajik et el help Iran kill Iraqi or invade Afghanistan?? No Russian, is that what you are saying??

It's like "Hey, I did nothing in Iraq, they are American, I just live in Texas".....

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## Muhammed45

jhungary said:


> So, Russia is NOT a part of Soviet??
> 
> Only Ukrainian, Pole, Kazakh, Tajik et el help Iran kill Iraqi or invade Afghanistan?? No Russian, is that what you are saying??


NATO is a common threat. You talk as if Russia has done it all. Soviets had its blunders, no one denies that. 

The current Russia is different specially when you look into things through EuroAsian concept.


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## jhungary

Muhammed45 said:


> NATO is a common threat. You talk as if Russia has done it all. Soviets had its blunders, no one denies that.
> 
> The current Russia is different specially when you look into things through EuroAsian concept.


You are saying it "had" its blunder so it didn't count.

Do tell me who is in charge of Soviet Union? 

Today Russian is the same as Russian during the Soviet time. In some degree, today Ukrainian is a lot like the Ukrainian back in Soviet time. 

You can talk about NATO threat all you want, but this war is not about NATO, this war is between Russia and Ukraine, both of which is not part of NATO.


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## Muhammed45

Foreseen threat : NATO tried to absorb Ukraine hence Russo-Ukrainian war.


jhungary said:


> You are saying it "had" its blunder so it didn't count.
> 
> Do tell me who is in charge of Soviet Union?
> 
> Today Russian is the same as Russian during the Soviet time. In some degree, today Ukrainian is a lot like the Ukrainian back in Soviet time.
> 
> You can talk about NATO threat all you want, but this war is not about NATO, this war is between Russia and Ukraine, both of which is not part of NATO.

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## thetutle

mmr said:


> You are the one who is trolling. Maybe ppl should start to saying chinese were not *** fucked by japan during second world war and china man killed Chinese them self.
> 
> 
> He is fucking troll. Winnie the poh will be very proud.


you're right, Ive seen no proof that Japanese did anything bad in china. All we have is western and Chinese books and photos, some of which could have been photo shopped.



FuturePAF said:


> Su-35 crash? Lot of good tech for the boys and girls in the reverse engineering labs stateside.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510657987442098178


YEah, I dot think anyone will be reverse engineering anything form this heap of crap. NATO is decades ahead.

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## jhungary

Muhammed45 said:


> Foreseen threat : NATO tried to absorb Ukraine hence Russo-Ukrainian war.


So? Does that mean they would? If NATO would, they had already take Ukraine in back in 2008 and then again in 2015.

At the end of the day, whether NATO would absorb Ukraine is none of Russia business.

You start a war to stop another country from joining another alliance? To which you are already surrounded by said alliance in 3 sides already. Finland is joining NATO, do you think Russia should invade Finland as well??









Finland appears closer to joining NATO despite Russia's threat of military consequences if it does


Russia previously warned of "serious military and political consequences" if Finland tried to join, but the country only seems to be closer to it.




www.businessinsider.com





Why not invade Kosovo and Georgia while Russian are at it? Both country HAD ALREADY started membership process.


----------



## thetutle

Abdulaziz Al-Karimi said:


> but it's also surprisingly how Russian currency bounced back there is no explaination could perhaps be the gold...


There is an explanation, and its the drastic measures russia took to defend the currency. The consequences of these measures will be worse tham a lower currency, or perhaps equally as bad.


----------



## coffee_cup

That Guy said:


> The ruble went from 12 to a dollar to 100 to a dollar to barely 80 to a dollar. I don't know what your definition of a crash is, or what you expected a crash to do.


Where does this 12 to a dollar figure come from?

Ruble was trading around 80 to a dollar in January (war started end of Feb).
After the war started it went to around 150 and now it is trading around 85. Do you consider it a crash?








That Guy said:


> Also, the cost of war is likely in the tens of billions daily. You kept making this bullshit excuse that it would cost Russia trillions in a year as a way to dismiss my argument, when I clearly indicated this war wouldn't last a year, because Russia would eventually run out of money, which is exactly what is happening. The fact that you cannot tell the difference between the costs of a conventional war and an unconventional one is telling.


Wars are very costly, there is absolutely no doubt in that. But there have been so many reports which tell that it is costing $20 million (not BILLION) a day for Russia. Some were posted here as well. So why cant you just accept that you exaggerated big time?



That Guy said:


> Don't bring up what's happening in Pakistan, because you are blatantly trying to appeal to emotion.



The war in Russia-Ukraine is the cause. And the big bully USA is threatening Pakistan so openly and trying a regime change so blatantly in Pakistan because we decided to stay neutral. How is it not related to that? And why should we hear to the propaganda spread by the USA? When it is mostly serving her national interests at the cost of other countries?



That Guy said:


> The Russians are dumb, the fact that they're being pushed back is evidence enough of that. The only ones in shock and denial are the people who keep saying "Russia stronk 💪!", so I suggest you stop while you're ahead.


Russians might be dumb or might not be. Only time will tell.
But for now the ground reality is that they are surviving pretty well.



That Guy said:


> By the way, you aren't nearly as smart as you pretend to be. I've been playing nice because I don't wanna get the mods upset, but watch your tone with me.
> 
> @LeGenD @RescueRanger


I am questioning your analysis by presenting you the FACTS (not personal opinions). What is wrong with that?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510908965756022788
They talked about bringing additional S300 to Ukraine. They're just going to be destroyed just like the ones shown in the above tweet.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510791032224497673
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510791970200948744
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510612515272765446🚜





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510870583998828547


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## thetutle

The SC said:


> Russia officially pegs the ruble to gold​
> Russia owns 2,300 tons of gold and can cover all the rubles printed in gold..


Printed rubles are only 1% of al the rubles in existence. Fanboys have some very valuable lessons up ahead of them on how economies work.


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## ahtan_china



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## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510681229221404676



This is what we should understand from the propaganda posted here on every few minutes here by the Pro-Western camp. The Western intelligence operatives are waging an information war in order to misinform people about the root causes of this conflict.

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## bobo6661

ahtan_china said:


> View attachment 830413


Like what does it have anything to do with Ukraine  That are just youtube channels


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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510653633267998726
> 
> 20 - 50%? German people should overthrow the German govt who participated in a conflict that they didn't belong.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510633931783262213


lol thats fantasy. I dont know what country you live in but food costs make up a very small part of a person's budget. If my food costs doubled, I would not care, and I could hopefully lose some weight if I did care.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510699596657352706


This baboon has a Russian wife and is a traitor to his country.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510885893002911750



Accoeding to reliable sources, there were no atrocities reported when Russian forces left. The Mayor of Bucha declared it "liberated". Then Azov Neo Nazis and other Ukrainian nationalists came in and looked for who amongst the population were pro-Russian. That is when they carried out the massacres. Ironically, they're accusing the Russian forces the same atrocities that the Ukrainian Neo Nazis and nationalists carried out, and the Western media and politicians are accomplices of this bogus campaign.

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## bobo6661

thetutle said:


> lol thats fantasy. I dont know what country you live in but food costs make up a very small part of a person's budget. If my food costs doubled, I would not care, and I could hopefully lose some weight if I did care.


Yee the prices where going up anyway if it goes for poland before the whole conflict, but now atleast our government has an excuse it's not their fault anymore its russia russia a big saviour for our current government And to be honest the increase is not so big mostly becose we consume more now becose we got 3 mln more people to feed ... other products didnt rise so much or didnt at all.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

coffee_cup said:


> Where does this 12 to a dollar figure come from?
> 
> Ruble was trading around 80 to a dollar in January (war started end of Feb).
> After the war started it went to around 150 and now it is trading around 85. Do you consider it a crash?
> 
> View attachment 830396
> 
> 
> 
> Wars are very costly, there is absolutely no doubt in that. But there have been so many reports which tell that it is costing $20 million (not BILLION) a day for Russia. Some were posted here as well. So why cant you just accept that you exaggerated big time?



Perhaps he doesn't know the difference between millions and billions of USD. The 'm' in the millions and 'b' in the billions probably looks the same to him. I mean how did he come to the conclusion that it is going to cause Russia billions USD a day? 🤣


coffee_cup said:


> The war in Russia-Ukraine is the cause. And the big bully USA is threatening Pakistan so openly and trying a regime change so blatantly in Pakistan because we decided to stay neutral. How is it not related to that? And why should we hear to the propaganda spread by the USA? When it is mostly serving her national interests at the cost of other countries?
> 
> 
> Russians might be dumb or might not be. Only time will tell.
> But for now the ground reality is that they are surviving pretty well.
> 
> 
> I am questioning your analysis by presenting you the FACTS (not personal opinions). What is wrong with that?



Next he will call you a 'clown'  No meat behind his arguments. He is just repeating what he heard from Western media.

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## UKBengali

tower9 said:


> It is shocking to me how little logic and intelligence most Europeans have when analyzing this whole situation. I guess the Zionists have really controlled the message well.




It make sense when 50% of people have IQ below 100 and 80% below 120.

I consider that you need an IQ of 120+ to be able to understand global geopolitics to a reasonable level if you have the interest to learn about it.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510875542823784456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510898457812291584


----------



## thetutle

bobo6661 said:


> Yee the prices where going up anyway if it goes for poland before the whole conflict, but now atleast our government has an excuse it's not their fault anymore its russia russia a big saviour for our current government And to be honest the increase is not so big mostly becose we consume more now becose we got 3 mln more people to feed ... other products didnt rise so much or didnt at all.


Definitely, it depends on person to person, but the amount of food I throw out is enormous. its a terrible waste really. If it means crushing russia I dont mind eating out in restaurants less. cooking more or actually eating less and being healthy. Australians spend $20 billion per year on their dogs. I would rather Fifo the dog misses out on that cancer treatment or dog yoga and the money go towards javelins for Ukraine instead. That 20 billion is almost half of Russias defence budget.


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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510887410908995584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510899214473125895
russian new armor camo technology


----------



## thetutle

That Guy said:


> The ruble went from 12 to a dollar to 100 to a dollar to barely 80 to a dollar. I don't know what your definition of a crash is, or what you expected a crash to do.


Actually the ruble revived very strongly. You can see it on the spot charts. But tis almost impossible to trade and the economic effects of Russian ruble straightening measures will have a profoundly bad effect on Russias economy. 

If you have a company is russia, your dollars and EUR will be confiscated but he Russian government and you will be given Ruble instead at the Russian declared exchange rate. So yeah, go ahead and open a business in russia. 

Al these Indians and Chinese that will now invest in russia, lol, go right ahead. You will be a ruble millionaire. good luck taking your money out.

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## WarKa DaNG

The upcoming days for AFU will be very difficult. The Russians have bombed their refineries and oil depots to kingdom come. I don't know how they will survive the maneuver warfare.


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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> None taken, to me, these people who worship one white (Russian) killing the other White (Ukrainian) when they "Condemn" white people (Most American) killing Brown is well, just a hypocrite in my books.
> 
> I mean, I am okay if people call me name for something I believe in, these people here worshipping the Russian don't really know what they believe in, as in Russian does not have their share of killing Brown and Yellow people......(People tend to forget Russian was involved in Afghanistan just 10 or so year before we are involved, and the Russian even Killed Chinese on the Russo-China border conflict and the Sino-Russian Split. And Russia is also directly involved in killing Korean (flying for North Korea) Iraqi (by arming and taking side in Iran-Iraq war) but well, seems to me these people have a really short memory...


And not only that way you say, but russia is a very racist society and I cant even imagine a brown or black person living in russia. You would get more social acceptance going a leper. Being an asian I think a person would be more like an alien in Russia. They would generally be ignored. The only place I saw darker people in russia was the outdoor markets selling plastic toys and rubber slippers. 

Compare that to the west where they have all types of jobs.

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## Paul2

thetutle said:


> lol thats fantasy. I dont know what country you live in



Judging by the name, he is from Somalia


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## thetutle

ahtan_china said:


> View attachment 830413


I dont get it, some Chinese blogger make out ukrnaian flags on Chinese vehicle and then some other Chinese blogger corrected him?



Paul2 said:


> Judging by the name, he is from Somalia


but the fact he had American flags on his profile and is using internet leads e to believe he might be currently in America. Or at least will be until NSA track his IP address and have a chat to him about some things.


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## LeGenD

khansaheeb said:


> Seems like the Russians learnt nothing from the Chechnyan and Afghan conflicts.


Russians failed in the First Chechen War. Lessons that were learned from this war were successfully applied in Second Chechen War for desirable outcome in Chechnya under leadership of Vladimir Putin.

Russians fought another war in Georgia and annexed parts of it in 2008 (clashes lasted only 5 days).

Russians also found it easy to annex Crimea from Ukraine in 2004. It was at this point Ukrainians began to realize that they have to prepare for wider war. And when the time came, Ukraine turned out to be much more capable side in the battlefield than both Chechnya and Georgia respectively.

Although Russian armed forces are much more capable in 2022 in comparison to what they used to be in times of war in Chechnya, US/NATO made it possible for Ukraine to subvert Russian cyberwarfare efforts, foil Russian assassination plot for Volodymyr Zelenskyy, and to fight Russian forces across the country with supply of much-needed arms. Ukrainian forces fought with courage and conviction on the other hand, and have managed to DEFEAT Russian forces in the North.

Now the focus of the belligerents have shifted to the EAST. Russian forces overran much of Donbas but Mariupol have managed to hold its ground somehow which is remarkable and there are additional pockets of resistance as well. I think that Ukrainian forces will regroup and go on the offensive in Donbas to DEFEAT Russian forces in this region.

Let us see.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510740398565646338


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## thetutle

I down understand why some people use the illegal wars fought by America to justify wholesale murder and invasion of Ukraine. 

Do you kill your next door neighbour and say, oh well officer, you will remember that there was a war in Iraq and half a million were killed, and surely I am justified in killing my neighbour. 

I just dont get it.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Paul2 said:


> Judging by the name, he is from Somalia



Yup....



thetutle said:


> lol thats fantasy. I dont know what country you live in but food costs make up a very small part of a person's budget. If my food costs doubled, I would not care, and I could hopefully lose some weight if I did care.



It is being explained below...I hope you can at least learn something from it.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510939545608634374


thetutle said:


> This baboon has a Russian wife and is a traitor to his country.



And how is that a bad thing? Russians are great people and their women are beautiful, cultured, and have strong religious values.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

thetutle said:


> And not only that way you say, but russia is a very racist society and I cant even imagine a brown or black person living in russia. You would get more social acceptance going a leper. Being an asian I think a person would be more like an alien in Russia. They would generally be ignored. The only place I saw darker people in russia was the outdoor markets selling plastic toys and rubber slippers.
> 
> Compare that to the west where they have all types of jobs.




Brown and black people don't need to live in Russia; they would be doing fine in their countries if the West stops its colonial and consistent sabotages. At least in Africa, Russia isn't a colonial power. It was never involved in slavery. And it doesn't fund terrorists and rival ethnic groups in order weaken central authorities and loot their natural resources. That robbery and and endless conflicts are something that consistently come from the empire of the Antichrist (The Western world).

That being said, I found it odd that a Bosnian Muslim would be so fond of the West. While it is understandable your opposition to Russia since they supported Serbia - whose forces supported or committed the massacres of 200,000 Bosnian Muslims - it seems you're oblivion to the fact that it was the Western powers who imposed arms embargo on Bosnia while Bosnian Serbs were supplied from Serbia. So in essence, the West were complicit in that tragedy.

I also found it odd that a Muslim, irrespective of his (or her) nationality, would be oblivious to the crimes that the West has committed against us and still commits to the present day. Do we just whitewash what they did and still do to Palestine, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Somalia, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Yemen, Mali, Iran and other places? The demise of the West, Allah (swt) willing, will be a joy for every Muslim household, and I hope and pray this conflict between Russia-Ukraine contributes to that end result.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Al these Indians and Chinese that will now invest in russia, lol, go right ahead. You will be a ruble millionaire. good luck taking your money out.


Kind of like the Top Gear Trio trip to Vietnam when they were handed 15 millions don....








thetutle said:


> And not only that way you say, but russia is a very racist society and I cant even imagine a brown or black person living in russia. You would get more social acceptance going a leper. Being an asian I think a person would be more like an alien in Russia. They would generally be ignored. The only place I saw darker people in russia was the outdoor markets selling plastic toys and rubber slippers.
> 
> Compare that to the west where they have all types of jobs.


Well, not only Russia, China too. If you are Brown or Black, then you can forget about earning a meaningful wages 

I have never seen a Brown or Black CEO or Politician in neither Russia or China 

There was a Black MP in Ukraine Parliament tho 









Zhan Beleniuk - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Wood

thetutle said:


> Printed rubles are only 1% of al the rubles in existence. Fanboys have some very valuable lessons up ahead of them on how economies work.


Debt fueled inflationary growth is how globalized economies are able to expand. This is the reason why a fancy restaurant meal every month is normal for most in developed world and many in the developing world. Fiat currencies exist and are adopted world wide because society has evolved to trust their central bank that issues money arbitrarily instead of believing that value of a metal like gold. Many people who learn economics from YouTube university without understanding the real nature of money cannot be reasoned with.

Russia is now cut off from the majority of wealthy regions in global economy. Ironically, this will allow them to sustain gold denominated currency for some time. The lack of ability to print money after gold reserves are used up will result in eventual deflation. Putin hopes foreign investors will 'trust' his currency because he says that it can be exchanged for gold. This is his belief, but under sanctions and a global negative sentiment against Russia - his gamble will more likely fail.

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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> And how is that a bad thing? Russians are great people and their women are beautiful, cultured, and have strong religious values.


Well I have gone out with more russian women than you have, and I assure you their values are far form religious. And they are fine people, unfortunately, most have drank the Kool aid. It will take decades of freedom to get back to normal.

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## serenity

Wood said:


> Debt fueled inflationary growth is how globalized economies are able to expand. This is the reason why a fancy restaurant meal every month is normal for most in developed world and many in the developing world. Fiat currencies exist and are adopted world wide because society has evolved to trust their central bank that issues money arbitrarily instead of believing that value of a metal like gold. Many people who learn economics from YouTube university without understanding the real nature of money cannot be reasoned with.
> 
> Russia is now cut off from the majority of wealthy regions in global economy. Ironically, this will allow them to sustain gold denominated currency for some time. The lack of ability to print money after gold reserves are used up will result in eventual deflation. Putin hopes foreign investors will 'trust' his currency because he says that it can be exchanged for gold. This is his belief, but under sanctions and a global negative sentiment against Russia - his gamble will more likely fail.



Accurate. No comment on last sentence though.



jhungary said:


> Kind of like the Top Gear Trio trip to Vietnam when they were handed 15 millions don....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, not only Russia, China too. If you are Brown or Black, then you can forget about earning a meaningful wages
> 
> I have never seen a Brown or Black CEO or Politician in neither Russia or China
> 
> There was a Black MP in Ukraine Parliament tho
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zhan Beleniuk - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



Nor in Taiwan, Vietnam, India, Japan, Switzerland, Italy, Argentina, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and so on and on.

lol what a stupid point.

These countries mostly don't have an African population of significant size compared to for example USA or many European countries... who just so happen to have those number of African descent populations because... well. I guess there are no African descent CEO or politicians in Italy or South Korea or Singapore because those countries didn't have the humanity to enslave African people. They must be so racist.


----------



## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Brown and black people don't need to live in Russia; they would be doing fine in their countries if the West stops its colonial and consistent sabotages. At least in Africa, Russia isn't a colonial power. It was never involved in slavery. And it doesn't fund terrorists and rival ethnic groups in order weaken central authorities and loot their natural resources. That robbery and and endless conflicts are something that consistently come from the empire of the Antichrist (The Western world).


No russia only colonised, North America, Asia (port Arthur, and Manchuria, and Japanese islands) and Eastern Europe. they were never advanced or powerful enough to get a piece of Africa. 

So their crimes are just as bad as the other western colonisers, they just didnt make it to Africa.

And down forget, the west did't get rich and powerful through colonisation, because you need to be rich and powerful to colonise someone. Colonising was icing on the cake. 


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> That being said, I found it odd that a Bosnian Muslim would be so fond of the West. While it is understandable your opposition to Russia since they supported Serbia - whose forces supported or committed the massacres of 200,000 Bosnian Muslims - it seems you're oblivion to the fact that it was the Western powers who imposed arms embargo on Bosnia while Bosnian Serbs were supplied from Serbia. So in essence, the West were complicit in that tragedy.


Western powers recognised our independence, which they didn't have to do, they imposed a no fly zone. an armed us secretly, and finally bombed the serbs. Thats why we won the war, kept our independence and thats why we will have serbs moaning about having to live under "muslim oppression". 

Yes we could have turned against the west and done the Palestinian thing, no compromise and fight for all or nothing and fight the west as well, why? just because. And what would we have, we would be Palestinians and live in refugee camps in Denmark. It would be worse than Palestinians, at least they have camps in nice warm places. 


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I also found it odd that a Muslim, irrespective of his (or her) nationality, would be oblivious to the crimes that the West has committed against us and still commits to the present day. Do we just whitewash what they did and still do to Palestine, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Somalia, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Yemen, Mali, Iran and other places? The demise of the West, Allah (swt) willing, will be a joy for every Muslim household, and I hope and pray this conflict between Russia-Ukraine contributes to that end result.


Well may crimes against muslims were committed, and the option is to fight against oppression to the bitter and or play to smart and worth within a system to achieve the best possible life. 

Palestinians could have accepted a compromise solution back in the 40's. and maybe the 50's. Their leadership miscalculated and they are now all suffering. 

Iraq Libya and syria is full of people that would give their life for a dictator when the supreme power in this world is a democracy. I dont understand what is so good about dictatorships. Hopefully one day I will understand. These people could live like the UAE if they had half a brain. 

Afghanistan was ruined by the Russians. It was doing quite well. USA could not save them because it was shut too broken by the time US invaded. Taliban would not be my first choice as a government. 

Lebanon is a fake country created for Christians in the Middle East. They seem to have lost it now and its muslim. This was very unfair actions by the French when they created it. Should be joined with syria. 

Iran is being bullied. its very unfair. they need nukes. 

Somalia. of course victim of colonialism, They need a lesson in governance and hopefully Turkish bases and Turkish help can teach them how to govern. 

Mali, I will have to google that one.

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## jhungary

serenity said:


> Accurate. No comment on last sentence though.
> 
> 
> 
> Nor in Taiwan, Vietnam, India, Japan, Switzerland, Italy, Argentina, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and so on and on.
> 
> lol what a stupid point.
> 
> These countries mostly don't have an African population of significant size compared to for example USA or many European countries... who just so happen to have those number of African descent populations because... well. I guess there are no African descent CEO or politicians in Italy or South Korea or Singapore because those countries didn't have the humanity to enslave African people. They must be so racist.


We are talking about Black and Brown, India, Saudi, Most of Argentina and Iran are brown, do, before you try to insult me, please read carefully what I have said.

On the other hand, Switzerland had a Black CEO for Credit Suisse - Tidjane_Thiam









Tidjane Thiam - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Italy have had a Black Woman Minister in Italian Government









Cécile Kyenge - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Even Nissan had a Brazilian-Lebanese CEO - Carlos Ghosn Well, that didn't work out very well with them.









Carlos Ghosn - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





It's one thing to have less than enough Black or Brown population in a country, another thing to give them a fair go at things. Would you say a Black or Brown have more chance in country like US or Canada or even here in Australia then in Russia or China? If you think they are treated fairly in China or Russia, then you have some problem dude.

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## thetutle

serenity said:


> These countries mostly don't have an African population of significant size compared to for example USA or many European countries..


And why do you think that is? Africans have no chance there.


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## serenity

jhungary said:


> We are talking about Black and Brown, India, Saudi, Most of Argentina and Iran are brown, do, before you try to insult me, please read carefully what I have said.



Lol wtf that's like saying USA has fewer yellow CEOs and politicians than China... therefore China is less racist than USA. Come on. Of course brown people native to those lands don't count lol man it makes sense you in the military bro.

Please understand logic better. We don't count brown into India in this measure because then of course everyone is great! That's like counting yellow for China as a minority lololol.

How many African CEO and politicians in South Korea, Japan, Singapore, Vietnam, Italy, Belgium, Norway, Iceland, Lithuania?? My point against your post was to simply suggest that it's not only China that has no black (or brown) CEO and politicians. This isn't proof it is racist or more racist as you tried to suggest with that crazy reach.

We of course don't measure number of brown CEOs and politicians in a brown country. So when we measure that we should use another for example yellow. How many yellow CEOs in a brown country or black country. Does their absence indicate racism or whatever you're suggesting? Of course not. It's not that simple.

Yeah you can find some for Switzerland... I guess you proved it absolutely. All Swiss are not as racist as Lithuanians or Taiwanese or Chinese or Indian or Russian or Italians since the Swiss have one black CEO. Flawless victory logic.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510961478727348232

Russia has now surpassed 2,400 losses

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## jhungary

serenity said:


> Lol wtf that's like saying USA has fewer yellow CEOs and politicians than China... therefore China is less racist than USA. Come on. Of course brown people native to those lands don't count lol man it makes sense you in the military bro.
> 
> Please understand logic better. We don't count brown into India in this measure because then of course everyone is great! That's like counting yellow for China as a minority lololol.
> 
> How many African CEO and politicians in South Korea, Japan, Singapore, Vietnam, Italy, Belgium, Norway, Iceland, Lithuania?? My point against your post was to simply suggest that it's not only China that has no black (or brown) CEO and politicians. This isn't proof it is racist or more racist as you tried to suggest with that crazy reach.
> 
> Yeah you can find some for Switzerland... I guess you proved it absolutely. All Swiss are not as racist as Lithuanians or Taiwanese or Chinese or Indian or Russian or Italians since the Swiss have one black CEO. Flawless victory logic.


Dude, US can NEVER have more yellow CEO than China, the entire country of China is Yellow people.......So is Indian wrt Brown people.

And did I even say the word "Racist"? Don't put word in my mouth.

And dude, you have no idea what are you talking about.

As @thetutle said, why Brown and Black people are going to China or Russia when there are no future to begin with? IT probably better off staying in Middle East or Africa.

And do name me a Black or Brown Chinese/Russian CEO to proof me otherwise, otherwise you have no case here buddy.


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## serenity

thetutle said:


> And why do you think that is? Africans have no chance there.



Because in China's case it never went to African just to enslave their people and take them to China in the multi thousands to be abused as slaves.

If you follow the conversation that is off topic, it was jhungry claiming that because there are no African CEO and politicians in China, that is proof it is more racist (the implication). Whereas the inverse implication is that the fact that there are many African peoples of some social status in the USA or wherever he is meaning, proves it is a fine society. Ignoring that there is huge disparity in wealth, opportunities, and so on. In fact the only conclusion from this whole silly exercise is that USA proved it is in fact an unequal society when it comes to race and China hasn't had a chance to prove it is or isn't... I guess if China enslaved the Africans on their voyages and visits in the same numbers, we'd might be able to see how hundreds of years later, and compare. But we don't.

Similar shit can be said for Korea, Japan, most of Europe, most of Latin America, most of east Asia and south Asia and south east Asia.



jhungary said:


> Dude, US can NEVER have more yellow CEO than China, the entire country of China is Yellow people.......So is Indian wrt Brown people.
> 
> And did I even say the word "Racist"? Don't put word in my mouth.
> 
> And dude, you have no idea what are you talking about.
> 
> As @thetutle said, why Brown and Black people are going to China or Russia when there are no future to begin with? IT probably better off staying in Middle East or Africa.



Read through it again... that's exactly my point. I explained why including "brown" people into the assessment for India would be ridiculous as including "yellow" people into the assessment for China in your own little ridiculous assessment method. Anyway I'm done with this silliness glad people can see it though.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510965914971291655


----------



## serenity

UN needs to investigate this thoroughly. If Russia committed war crimes, it ought to be condemned and punished. Russia claims Azov and whatever splinter groups of insurgents are killing who they deem as "saboteurs" and "traitors". May we have truth and may it be known in its entirety.

A faith in UN though would be highly misplaced I think. Security Council is filled with invested groups - Russia for starters and US of course. UK and France more on US side of course and China being neutral or partial to Russia even if it tries to be neutral. Rest are probably mostly corrupted one way or another or biased one way or another.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510976095520178176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510976590523645953


----------



## Mehmed Ali

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Brown and black people don't need to live in Russia; they would be doing fine in their countries if the West stops its colonial and consistent sabotages. At least in Africa, Russia isn't a colonial power. It was never involved in slavery. And it doesn't fund terrorists and rival ethnic groups in order weaken central authorities and loot their natural resources. That robbery and and endless conflicts are something that consistently come from the empire of the Antichrist (The Western world).
> 
> That being said, I found it odd that a Bosnian Muslim would be so fond of the West. While it is understandable your opposition to Russia since they supported Serbia - whose forces supported or committed the massacres of 200,000 Bosnian Muslims - it seems you're oblivion to the fact that it was the Western powers who imposed arms embargo on Bosnia while Bosnian Serbs were supplied from Serbia. So in essence, the West were complicit in that tragedy.
> 
> I also found it odd that a Muslim, irrespective of his (or her) nationality, would be oblivious to the crimes that the West has committed against us and still commits to the present day. Do we just whitewash what they did and still do to Palestine, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Somalia, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Yemen, Mali, Iran and other places? The demise of the West, Allah (swt) willing, will be a joy for every Muslim household, and I hope and pray this conflict between Russia-Ukraine contributes to that end result.


Don't you ever never mention my people ( Bosnians) ,Don't wash your mouth with what I personally went through . Don't ever but ever take liberty in saying what we should or we shouldn't. Do you understand me? Between you and me there is no us and never has been nor it will be. Me and my kind for the centuries faced all the people who you are against or for where man needs to face them. We never saw you then, so keep your self to the people that you familiar with or accept your distasteful patronising . Have I been clear?

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## Clutch

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510965914971291655



Fake News.

There is no proof of Russian atrocities other than Ukranian claims. These people could have been murdered by the Azov Battalion and dumped there.


‘Fake News’ Over War Crimes Gets Russia Angry, Demands UNSC Meet
M.K.BHADRAKUMAR | 4 APRIL, 2022

An indignant Moscow has angrily demanded a United Nations Security Council meeting on Monday over the allegations of atrocities by Russian troops in areas around Kiev through the past month. Prima facie, this allegation is fake news but it can mould misperceptions by the time it gets exposed as disinformation.

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## mmr

jhungary said:


> @mmr quit arguing with the infirm and the insane lol
> 
> When he said US is a Hegemony back in 1853, you should know this is a hint you should not further with this......
> 
> LOL


Lol yup


----------



## F-22Raptor

Clutch said:


> Fake News.
> 
> There is no proof of Russian atrocities other than Ukranian claims. These people could have been murdered by the Azov Battalion and dumped there.
> 
> 
> ‘Fake News’ Over War Crimes Gets Russia Angry, Demands UNSC Meet
> M.K.BHADRAKUMAR | 4 APRIL, 2022
> 
> An indignant Moscow has angrily demanded a United Nations Security Council meeting on Monday over the allegations of atrocities by Russian troops in areas around Kiev through the past month. Prima facie, this allegation is fake news but it can mould misperceptions by the time it gets exposed as disinformation.




Stop insulting my intelligence. These are Russian crimes against humanity, confirmed by many Ukrainian citizens in interviews, and these were Russian occupied territories for several weeks. 

The Russian Nazis are lying through their teeth as they've always done. Stop burying your head in sand.

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## mmr

thetutle said:


> you're right, Ive seen no proof that Japanese did anything bad in china. All we have is western and Chinese books and photos, some of which could have been photo shopped.
> 
> 
> YEah, I dot think anyone will be reverse engineering anything form this heap of crap. NATO is decades ahead.


No proof at all. Japan is very peaceful country. There is now way they will do anything bad.


----------



## sammuel

~

Ukraine Holding Hundreds of Russian POWs

Ukraine currently holds nearly 600 Russian prisoners of war, Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister Iryna Vereshchuk said on TV. The Ukrainian government is in a process of organizing a prisoner camp for Russians according to international law and is seeking access to Ukrainian prisoners of war held by Russia, she said.


Source:










Ukraine Update: Russia Regroups as Additional Sanctions Loom


The Defense Ministry in Kyiv said that it sees signs of Russia regrouping its troops to gain a tactical advantage in southern areas of Ukraine, storing fuel and organizing hospitals for an influx of wounded as it prepares for a new offensive.




www.bloomberg.com


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510993834494382090

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## coffee_cup

After Vatican, Lativa's "Latvijas Gaze" says "Paying in Rubles is possible".

@Apollon you were saying?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510993845361823747


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510993845361823747


Biden is learning to speak like Trump

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## F-22Raptor

Clutch said:


> Fake News.
> 
> There is no proof of Russian atrocities other than Ukranian claims. These people could have been murdered by the Azov Battalion and dumped there.
> 
> 
> ‘Fake News’ Over War Crimes Gets Russia Angry, Demands UNSC Meet
> M.K.BHADRAKUMAR | 4 APRIL, 2022
> 
> An indignant Moscow has angrily demanded a United Nations Security Council meeting on Monday over the allegations of atrocities by Russian troops in areas around Kiev through the past month. Prima facie, this allegation is fake news but it can mould misperceptions by the time it gets exposed as disinformation.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510835378273533957


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510996700214743050


----------



## khansaheeb

thetutle said:


> I down understand why some people use the illegal wars fought by America to justify wholesale murder and invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> Do you kill your next door neighbour and say, oh well officer, you will remember that there was a war in Iraq and half a million were killed, and surely I am justified in killing my neighbour.
> 
> I just dont get it.


He is not justifying, just pointing out the hypocrite and colonial policies of the West.

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## Wood

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510996700214743050


Catch'em all like Pokemon


----------



## thetutle

khansaheeb said:


> He is not justifying, just pointing out the hypocrite and colonial policies of the West.


and then he supports russia committing crimes because someone else had done the wrong thing. 
so exactly what I said. Someone did something I think was wrong. and that entitles me to do wrong?

Its like, he's a person that will find any excuse to do wrong. Does he have any morals? Someone getting away with a crime at some point justifies everyone else to commit such a crime? Is that was he's advocating?

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## denel

F-22Raptor said:


> Stop insulting my intelligence. These are Russian crimes against humanity, confirmed by many Ukrainian citizens in interviews, and these were Russian occupied territories for several weeks.
> 
> The Russian Nazis are lying through their teeth as they've always done. Stop burying your head in sand.


Problem is we have got state actors on this forum who are promoting a paid narrative.

It is a waste of time trying to write anything as remember... they are getting paid to promote fake agenda - like uighur issue does not exist and how great life is.

Everyone knows the gulags; ukrainian genocide before; this has happened before and is happening again. Truth is Putin wants to destroy everything that is in his way to victory; it shows how much out of line he was and under-estimate the potential of his own forces.


----------



## thetutle

Mehmed Ali said:


> Don't you ever never mention my people ( Bosnians) ,Don't wash your mouth with what I personally went through . Don't ever but ever take liberty in saying what we should or we shouldn't. Do you understand me? Between you and me there is no us and never has been nor it will be. Me and my kind for the centuries faced all the people who you are against or for where man needs to face them. We never saw you then, so keep your self to the people that you familiar with or accept your distasteful patronising . Have I been clear?


Do you have any views on what is happening in Ukraine?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511012912202240009


----------



## sammuel

coffee_cup said:


> After Vatican, Lativa's "Latvijas Gaze" says "Paying in Rubles is possible".



No, The Vatican Is Not Paying For Russian Gas In Rubles​







A tweet went viral on Wednesday, claiming that the Vatican has reportedly become the first customer in Europe to pay in rubles for Russian natural gas. The report turned out to be a joke, the author of the tweet later said, apologizing to their followers. 

Still, the report made it in some Russian and even Western media. The bank of the Vatican bought rubles of the equivalent of $11 million (10 million euro) from the Central Bank of Russia, according to sources some Russian media quoted..









No, The Vatican Is Not Paying For Russian Gas In Rubles | OilPrice.com


A tweet went viral on Wednesday, claiming that the Vatican has reportedly become the first customer in Europe to pay in rubles for Russian natural gas. The report turned out to be a joke




oilprice.com






Pope implicitly criticises Putin on invasion, considers Kyiv trip​






April 2 (Reuters) - Pope Francis said on Saturday he was considering a trip to Kyiv and implicitly criticised Russian President Vladimir Putin over the invasion of Ukraine, saying a "potentate" was fomenting conflict for nationalist interests.

Francis made the comments, first to reporters on the plane taking him to Malta for a two-day visit, and then in a hard-hitting speech in the island's presidential palace that left little doubt who he was referring to.

"From the east of Europe, from the land of the sunrise, the dark shadows of war have now spread. We had thought that invasions of other countries, savage street fighting and atomic threats were grim memories of a distant past," the pope said.

Moscow denies targeting civilians in the action it launched on Feb. 24, which it dubs a "special military operation" designed not to occupy territory but to demilitarise and "denazify" its neighbour. Francis has already rejected that terminology, calling it a war.

"However, the icy winds of war, which bring only death, destruction and hatred in their wake, have swept down powerfully upon the lives of many people and affected us all," Francis said.

*"Once again, some potentate, sadly caught up in anachronistic claims of nationalist interests, is provoking and fomenting conflicts, whereas ordinary people sense the need to build a future that, will either be shared, or not be at all,"* 

he said, without mentioning Putin by name.


rest here :









Pope implicitly criticises Putin on invasion, considers Kyiv trip


Pope Francis said on Saturday he was considering a trip to Kyiv and implicitly criticised Russian President Vladimir Putin over the invasion of Ukraine, saying a "potentate" was fomenting conflict for nationalist interests.




www.reuters.com

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510976755796004864


----------



## jamahir

sammuel said:


> "From the east of Europe, from the land of the sunrise, the dark shadows of war have now spread. We had thought that invasions of other countries, savage street fighting and atomic threats were grim memories of a distant past," the pope said.



Invasions were memories of a distant past ? Is he joking ? Only eleven years ago NATO invaded Libya and proxy-invaded Syria and these wars including savage street fighting are continuing there.

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## F-22Raptor

jamahir said:


> Invasions were memories of a distant past ? Is he joking ? Only eleven years ago NATO invaded Libya and proxy-invaded Syria and these wars including savage street fighting are continuing there.




How does it feel to support the Russian Nazis?



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511014841569484805


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511003890023645192


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510974940543131657


----------



## jhungary

serenity said:


> Because in China's case it never went to African just to enslave their people and take them to China in the multi thousands to be abused as slaves.
> 
> If you follow the conversation that is off topic, it was jhungry claiming that because there are no African CEO and politicians in China, that is proof it is more racist (the implication). Whereas the inverse implication is that the fact that there are many African peoples of some social status in the USA or wherever he is meaning, proves it is a fine society. Ignoring that there is huge disparity in wealth, opportunities, and so on. In fact the only conclusion from this whole silly exercise is that USA proved it is in fact an unequal society when it comes to race and China hasn't had a chance to prove it is or isn't... I guess if China enslaved the Africans on their voyages and visits in the same numbers, we'd might be able to see how hundreds of years later, and compare. But we don't.
> 
> Similar shit can be said for Korea, Japan, most of Europe, most of Latin America, most of east Asia and south Asia and south east Asia.
> 
> 
> 
> Read through it again... that's exactly my point. I explained why including "brown" people into the assessment for India would be ridiculous as including "yellow" people into the assessment for China in your own little ridiculous assessment method. Anyway I'm done with this silliness glad people can see it though.


First of all, as I said again, I AM NOT talking about the R word here, If you are talking about Racism, then I would say anywhere is the same, you cannot possibly have worse in one place then in other, you are oppress then you are oppressed, how do you oppress people more?

Secondly, I am talking about you will have no chance to make a living if you are Brown or Black in China or Russia. I hear alot about sematic (Which based on a wrong assumption to begin with, as I never even talked about Yellow people, and in case you are wondering, India is a multi-culture, it have all sort of people there, range from Chinese-Indian to White-Indian to anywhere in between,) Yet I still have not get a single example showing me that I am wrong. 

So with all due respect, what you said mean shit.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510910740261134338

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510912220573614081

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510913362653335552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510914498193940485

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510972094779207680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510923871641387014


----------



## jamahir

F-22Raptor said:


> How does it feel to support the Russian Nazis?
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511014841569484805



What I feel is that neutral observers should go there and investigate. No crooks from BBC, The Sun, EU and UNSC.

As for Russian "Nazis" look at how they gave emergency supplies to Ukranian civilians in the same Kiev region :


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508404003889205251
> 
> Even in Kiev region, Zelensky's government is absent. So the liberating Russian forces have to do more than liberating the country from Neo Nazis: They're providing humanitarian aid throughout the country.

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## jhungary

@Oldman1 









West sends Ukraine long-range artillery to counter-attack Putin


THE WEST will send Ukraine long-range artillery to counter-attack Russian forces "digging in" to pound cities, Ben Wallace revealed. The Defence Secretary yesterday revealed more lethal aid will be given to Kyiv to fight the Kremlin's killers. Russia's plans to storm into Kyiv have "fallen...




www.express.co.uk





Looks like UK is either sending M270 MLRS or AS90 to Ukraine. It could also be BAe System HiMAR - even tho UK did not use them.

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## jamal18

The 'massacre' ?

Wait till impartial observers have investigated.

My understanding is that Russia is trying to convene a meeting of the Security Council, and the UK is blocking it.

Up to the old tricks?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511001994563043346


jamahir said:


> What I feel is that neutral observers should go there and investigate. No crooks from BBC, The Sun, EU and UNSC.
> 
> As for Russian "Nazis" look at how they gave emergency supplies to Ukranian civilians in the same Kiev region :




Multiple interviews with civilians have taken place. They all blame the Russian Nazis. After all, Russia controlled Bucha for several weeks. 

All I see is you looking for excuses to absolve Russia of their crimes.


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## DF41

https://inf.news/en/military/e85edd096350159f6e18f59d4b22b588.html 

Russia kills Ukrainian female sniper Olena Bilozerska​2022-04-05 00:51 HKT

According to Russian media reports on March 30, the 42-year-old famous Ukrainian female sniper Olena Bilozerska was killed by the Russian army. Olena Bilozerska was placed in a body bag and confirmed dead. Some media once called him "the deadliest sniper in Ukraine".

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## Foinikas

OldTwilight said:


> I understand well , you simply said
> 
> 
> 
> attacking Russian cities mean to kill Russians ...
> 
> well , this is war and I don't have much love for Russians , but there is not much difference between you so called " Westerns " and Russians ...
> 
> both of you are from same tree and savagery is in your blood ...


This guy will tell you that Iran should be wiped out as well. Trust me.



Piotr said:


> Blogger Reveals How She Was Used to Create Fake About ‘Russian Air Strike’ on Mariupol Hospital​Yesterday
> 
> View attachment 830216
> 
> 
> Photos snapped by an Associated Press photographer of a pregnant woman at a demolished Mariupol hospital which Western media claimed had been “bombed by Russian forces” spread like wildfire, with US and European officials and media characterising the incident as evidence of Russian “war crimes”. The Russian MoD dismissed the allegations.
> Marianna Vyshemirskaya, a Mariupol beauty blogger who has been turned into a symbol by Western media to shore up claims that the Russian military deliberately bombed one of the city’s maternity hospitals on 9 March, has come forward to explain what really took place.
> In a series of story posts on her Instagram page, Vyshemirskaya, whose name was erroneously reported as "Vyshegirskaya" in many Western reports, stressed that the hospital was not struck in an air strike, but apparently shelled by artillery.
> Vyshemirskaya also explained that immediately after the shelling, photos of her and other women were taken without their permission by an Associated Press reporter wearing military fatigues and a helmet.
> 
> “I spent probably 30 minutes near the maternity hospital. This was where I was photographed. I was the last one to be photographed. When I saw the Associated Press reporter taking pictures I asked him to stop because I didn’t want or need this. He answered ‘Yes, yes, okay’, but after I and a policeman who agreed to accompany me to the second floor of the building to get my things came back down he again started snapping us”, the woman said.
> According to Vyshemirskaya, even Ukrainian law enforcement told the reporter not to shoot, with the photo correspondent ignoring them at first, before finally leaving after being warned a second time.
> “I did not give my permission for my photos to be taken and published. They published them by their own initiative”, Vyshemirskaya stressed.
> The woman said that two days after the incident, Associated Press reporters came back and asked her for an interview. “I replied that I am apolitical and did not want to give any interview. They said ‘We are also apolitical, but we’ve published your photos on the Internet’”, she recalled.
> 
> That’s when the slew of fakes and information attacks began, she said. “Because the situation that developed, which they plopped me into –because I never agreed to have my photos published, I was forced to comment, since my situation was considered a fake, that there was nobody in the maternity hospital. I said there were women in labour and pregnant women in the hospital…They also asked me if there was an air raid. I replied that no one heard an air raid. Explosions took place but there were no noises before or after them [to indicate aircraft]. This information didn’t seem to be to their liking. They cut it out”, she said.
> 
> In a separate interview published Saturday, Marianna said she and her husband went to Mariupol’s Maternity Hospital # 3 after being rejected by Maternity Hospital #2, which was not accepting patients, and Maternity Hospital #1, which she said had been “occupied by the military”.
> Russian Ambassador to the UN Vasily Nebenzya mentioned Ukrainian troops’ occupation of Maternity Hospital #1 in an address on 7 March.
> Vyshemirskaya also revealed the difficult conditions at the hospital, saying that husbands of the pregnant women had to live in the hospital’s basement, and that food had to be prepared in a field kitchen in the yard. Vyshemirskaya said Ukrainian troops at the hospital did nothing to help, and one day even came and took food away from staff, saying they had not eaten in days.
> 
> ‘Information Provocation’​Four people were killed, one baby died as a stillbirth, and at least 17 others were injured in the Mariupol hospital attack.
> EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell called the incident a “heinous war crime” by Russia. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said it was evidence that “a genocide of Ukrainians is taking place”.
> Russian Defence Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov dismissed claims of Russian involvement as an “information provocation by Kiev”, noting that a ceasefire regime had been declared by Russian forces on 9 March to allow for the evacuation of Mariupol’s residents, and that Russian aircraft did not take to the skies over the city that day. The Russian military also warned repeatedly about the presence of Ukrainian troops and neo-Nazi Azov militants at the city's hospitals.
> After being published by the AP on 10 March, photos of a battered Marianna carrying a blanket against the backdrop of the bombed out hospital spread like wildfire online. The news agency ran the story with the lead: "A Russian airstrike devastated a maternity hospital Wednesday in the besieged port city of Mariupol amid growing warnings from the West that Moscow's invasion is about to take a more brutal and indiscriminate turn".
> The photos were immediately picked up and used extensively by a host of other outlets, from the BBC and CNN to The Guardian, The Mirror, and a host of other outlets as a symbol of "Russian torture and brutality". An ill-fated series of tweets by the Russian Embassy in the UK saying that the incident appeared staged sparked further outrage, and ultimately prompted Twitter to remove them.
> Vyshemirskaya's story is the latest in an increasingly dense ecosystem of fakes, misinformation, and disinformation which has appeared online during the Ukraine crisis, from the legend of Snake Island, where the Ukrainian troops that Russia was feared to have indiscriminately cut down later appeared alive and well in Crimea, to the famous "Ghost of Kiev", the mythical Ukrainian fighter ace reported to have shot down an innumerable number of Russian planes.
> 
> https://sputniknews.com/20220402/bl...r-strike-on-mariupol-hospital-1094424700.html
> 
> Banderites are pathological liars.


Where are the ones in the forum who kept shouting at us back then "OOOOH HOW IS THIS FAKE? IT'S NOT THE SAME WOMAN! LOOK! IT'S NOT FAKE! OOOOH EVIL RUSSIANS THIS IS ALL REAL HAHA MOSCOW PROPAGANDA LIE ALWAYS"

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## jamahir

F-22Raptor said:


> Multiple interviews with civilians have taken place. They all blame the Russian Nazis. After all, Russia controlled Bucha for several weeks.
> 
> All I see is you looking for excuses to absolve Russia of their crimes.



This is just NATO looking to impose a no-fly-zone over Ukraine and also in your comrade, @Apollon's fantasy, extend the no-fly-zone 250 kms inside Russia's border with Ukraine but if that does not come about then try to do regime change in Russia using fake feminists like Pussy Riot and CIA agents among the emigres like Garry Kasparov who can be in the White-House-arranged "Russian government in exile" like the White House fronts 2011-era-and-onwards Libyan Transitional Council and Syrian National Council and of course the "Tibetan government in exile" :

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510689485549359109


DF41 said:


> https://inf.news/en/military/e85edd096350159f6e18f59d4b22b588.html
> 
> Russia kills Ukrainian female sniper Olena Bilozerska​2022-04-05 00:51 HKT
> 
> According to Russian media reports on March 30, the 42-year-old famous Ukrainian female sniper Olena Bilozerska was killed by the Russian army. Olena Bilozerska was placed in a body bag and confirmed dead. Some media once called him "the deadliest sniper in Ukraine".





> Although she was boasted by the media as a "sniper", she belongs to the Ukrainian Azov Battalion. The Ukrainian Azov Battalion is also called a neo-Nazi battalion internationally, which means it is not very friendly.


Good riddance !

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## That Guy

Screw it, I'm tired, I don't wanna argue anymore, which is why I just deleted my reply comment. @coffee_cup

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## F-22Raptor

FairAndUnbiased said:


> You made the specific prediction that there was going to be a Ukrainian counterattack to turn Russian withdrawal into a rout.
> 
> You want to bet on this prediction, loser gets banned for 3 months? 7 days for a counterattack and turning the withdrawal into a rout (>30% Russian forces proven to be destroyed or captured)



I should have taken this bet  

The Russians were annihilated in the north

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## J dud

This conflict has been pretty shocking! 

The fact that russian forces are retreating from kiev after a month of fighting looks like a defeat to me . This outcome has gravely impacted russian image as giobal power. 

All non western aligned countries will now be moving away from russia and closer to china . Honestly this defeat of Russia is win for china geopolitically. And i suspect the chinese leadership feels this as well. Thats why they are not providing any military support to russia.

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## Viet

925boy said:


> If the war is actually now ov er $1trn then explain to us how Russia keeps paying for it then??? biased mind u have.
> 
> 
> There, fixed it for you. Cuz that's actually whats happening in Ukraine now tbh.


It’s more than $1 trillion. The sanctions freeze all business activities and assets of Russian banks in America, Europe, Japan, Korea, Australia, Singapore. It’s the death of Russian international finance system.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510875073066024968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510875075066609667

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510875076509454340


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## jamal18

Ukraine using civilian areas to base military.

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## FairAndUnbiased

F-22Raptor said:


> I should have taken this bet
> 
> The Russians were annihilated in the north


Where's the proof for 30%+ losses?

It looks like they retreated in order and kept their equipment. 

No pictures of miles upon miles of destroyed vehicles that you'd expect from a rout.

No video of Ukrainian troops in contact even 5 days after the retreat.

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## jamal18

J dud said:


> This conflict has been pretty shocking!
> 
> The fact that russian forces are retreating from kiev after a month of fighting looks like a defeat to me . This outcome has gravely impacted russian image as giobal power.
> 
> All non western aligned countries will now be moving away from russia and closer to china . Honestly this defeat of Russia is win for china geopolitically. And i suspect the chinese leadership feels this as well. Thats why they are not providing any military support to russia.


Read the forum. They are withdrawing as stated in the negotiations.

Despite what many say, they were in the area simply to tie down Ukrainian forces.


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## coffee_cup

That Guy said:


> Screw it, I'm tired, I don't wanna argue anymore, which is why I just deleted my reply comment. @coffee_cup



Whatever man.

Peace and Happy Ramadan,


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## Foinikas

My Pakistani friend showed this to me:

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## Viet

jamal18 said:


> Ukraine using civilian areas to base military.


That’s the problem with some people arguing about Ukrainians deserve to be killed because a: Russia is peaceful, b: Russian army is peaceful. If they wage war then it will be a peaceful war.
Seriously, Ukraine should develop nuclear weapons as soon as possible.

Once Ukraine possesses nuclear weapons those people will shut up automatically.


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## dBSPL

It was nothing but the massacre carried out by the Russians in Bucha. Babies killed by bullets in the abdomen, mothers killed while they were tried to cover their children, mass graves covered with sand in the playground... What we saw in Syria, what we saw in the siege around Tripoli, now, similar things happening around Kiev.


Spoiler: +18






























People in the soup queue were shot at. Even pregnant women were raped. People were executed with their hands tied behind their backs. People were executed by being thrown into the sewer well. Not isolated incidents, but over and over again in many place... In some towns, vehicles were unable to even pass through the streets because of human bodies... If these aren't a reflex of Nazism, what else could be?

Nazism is a crime against humanity. However, politics is such a dangerous tool that you can accuse the other party of Nazism while whats exactly doing is a Nazizm.

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## CIA Mole

idk how any news out of this region can be trusted with both side doing the wwiii equivalent of information warfare

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510923468413763588


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510991411713347584


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## denel

dBSPL said:


> It was nothing but the massacre carried out by the Russians in Bucha. Babies killed by bullets in the abdomen, mothers killed while they were tried to cover their children, mass graves covered with sand in the playground... What we saw in Syria, what we saw in the siege around Tripoli, now, similar things happening around Kiev.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: +18
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People in the soup queue were shot at. Even pregnant women were raped. People were executed with their hands tied behind their backs. People were executed by being thrown into the sewer well. Not isolated incidents, but over and over again in many place... In some towns, vehicles were unable to even pass through the streets because of human bodies... If these aren't a reflex of Nazism, what else could be?
> 
> Nazism is a crime against humanity. However, politics is such a dangerous tool that you can accuse the other party of Nazism while whats exactly doing is a Nazizm.


unfortunately, we have been flooded by paid bots on the forum to spread fake and disinformation.

Russia Putin has shown himself to be a true Nazi; what his forces are doing is sheer brutality. Cluster bombs, civilian massacres, rapes, total destructions.... however to add insult to people's intelligence to show it as being idiots to believe Stalin's rooted disinformation department brigade.

When they will put Putin's neck in the noose and hang him like Romanian communist imbeciles.



jamal18 said:


> Ukraine using civilian areas to base military.


These are fake FSB media.... nothing surprises me with the level of fakes these people are getting to.

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## J dud

jamal18 said:


> Read the forum. They are withdrawing as stated in the negotiations.
> 
> Despite what many say, they were in the area simply to tie down Ukrainian forces.


They would never withdraw, if they were able to take kiev right ? 

Russia is supposed to be a global military power! Them not being able to take the capital of ukraine is itself a defeat ! 

As a casual observer i thought this war would be over by a month with ukrains capitulation. But Instead we see russians retreating and changing their goals. 1

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## denel

That Guy said:


> Screw it, I'm tired, I don't wanna argue anymore, which is why I just deleted my reply comment. @coffee_cup


It is a waste; this forum is just overrun with propaganda ministries from Russia/China = The moderators just dont have it in them to clean out this rifraf permanently.

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## jhungary

*Day 40*

Well, I never thought I would still be writing this in Day 40. But here we are, at Day 40 (About to go to Day 41) of the War in Ukraine. Fighting continue.

Here are the situation as of Day 40






So, what's happening?

*Russia is Culminated*

We hear this a thousand time, but what does that mean?

In war, a force is culminated means they are at the high tide mark and can no longer progress forward, usually at the end of their logistic capability. Further gain is unlikely at this point unless a serious reshape and re-contribution to the combat operation at hand.

Russia at this point reached the high tide mark for the entire operation, The Northern arm has been beaten back, and Ukrainian is counter attacking North East Ukraine. Russia pull off all the force in North and try to reinsert it somewhere either in the East (Near Kharkiv) or South East (Near Donbas)

*Localised Battle*

*Kyiv - Russian Retrograde*

Russian announced a draw back on the North, on the other hand, we have not seen any retrograde operation launched by Russia to preserve its North Force, what we can see is a general withdraw with their force abandoning defensive position around Kyiv and its suburb.

According to Chapter 7 FM 100-15 A retrograde operation defined as the following.

1.) A delay operation to withdraw frontline troop in parts to preserve the frontline, so you don't pull everyone at once and collapse the frontline.
2.) A volunteer withdrawal of rear troop, with defensive position destroyed or sabotaged so to denied the enemy for using the defensive structure you have built.
3.) Redeploy and/or retired the troop that are not engage in combat.

We didn't see any of that.......

Conventional Wisdom suggest for every unit you pull off the front line, you leave 2 unit behind to act as a "Fighting Withdrawal" that way you will always have some troop holding the line and not going to vacate the frontline all at once, this is obviously did not do, because Ukraine took back almost the entire Kyiv Oblast in 2 days, and leave behind carnage suggested that the Russian withdraw is unorganised and sudden.

On the other hand, defensive position around the line were not destroyed. Noted in Hostomel Airport, this Satellite Image suggested the defensive position remain intact






From this, we can deduce Russian Operation in Kyiv is not a Retrograde, but a general rout.

*Odesa*

Odesa is on the far side of the Western Coast, it being the biggest and only port left with Ukraine, this is a big target for the Russian, so what's happening to it?

Apart from a missile strike and an artillery strike, nothing.

Even tho snake island felt on day 1, Odesa was largely untouched. Russian ship is on stand by, however, they cannot launch an amphibious assault until the Russian took Mykolaiv, you need a supply route over land in order to sustain an amphibious operation.

I would have to say Odesa is safe for now, pending on whether or not Ukrainian can take Kherson during the counter offensive.

*Kherson*

I have no doubt in my mind Kherson is the next Counter Offensive Point for Ukrainian. Taking Kherson would pressure Russian troop back to Crimea as you can made a clear dash toward Crimea thru Kherson, and taking Kherson would have weaken the Russian ability to conduct Military Operation in the South and South East.

During the last few days we have seen limited activities in Kherson area after Ukrainian counter attacked toward Kherson Airfield, this is in my opinion probing work, Ukraine is waiting on heavy equipment (Tanks and Artillery) for a major push, once those equipment is in Ukrainian hand, we would expect to see a General Push toward Kherson and Melitopol Direction.

*Mariupol*

Anybody who studied warfare would probably tell you Mariupol would have fall in the first few days of the war. The Proximity (10km toward Donbas frontline) would mean this is more or less a sure things to the Russia. Taking Mariupol would free up a bunch of troop from the South and East so they can have the freedom to move North and encircle the Ukrainian Defender in Donbas.

40 days in, Mariupol is still hanging on by a thread. At this stage, I would have to say even if Mariupol felt, the Russian force, with 40 days of hard fighting would have been spent or near spent, which mean the original objective may be already in doubt. On the other hand, if the Ukrainian manage to break thru from Kherson, that will render the advance toward Mariupol pointless, because the Russia would have to pull troop back to defend Crimea. And even if Mariupol did fall, I seriously doubt Russia have enough troop to defend the city from a upcoming counter attack.

*Kharkiv*

Kharkiv is probably one of the wild card at the early onset of the war, due to it proximity toward Russian border and it's large ethnic Russian resident, we don't know if Kharkiv would have just fold or people in Kharkiv is going to cooperate with the Russian.

Kharkiv turns out to be one of the fiercest place of the entire war. Kharkiv have been back and forth, and latest intelligence suggested that Russia is no longer trying to take Kharkiv, and were unable to encircle it. Russian strategy with Kharkiv is by-passing it and going south toward Izyum and trying to encircle the Donbas defender.

Kharkiv is currently also one of the major point of Ukrainian counter offensive, with supply corridor being pushed back across the border.

*Overall Situation*

As of April 4. the situation is probably a stauts quo between the Russian force and Ukrainian Force. Russia have been withdrew from the Northern ends, Kyiv is relief as of now.

Depending on how Russian rearm and regroup, they may try to invade thru Belarus and into Ukraine again, however, unlike the first time they have the element of surprise, this time, Ukrainian is fully or nearly fully mobilised with time to make defensive position, any further advance is going to be tougher than it was before, which make another push toward Kyiv unlikely.

On the other hand, Russian is expected to rotate the force and redeploy them toward the south, a logical destination is in Donbas instead of Kharkiv, on the other hand, these force is freshly pull off the field from Kyiv and reinsert them into Donbas for a grinder warfare, I seriously doubt the combat effectiveness of these force without giving them enough time to R&R.

While the Russian is doing that, Ukrainian have been able to raise another 200,000 TDF troop, and is currently opening another round of mobilisation, basically awaiting armament and equipment to fully kit out the first batch of TDF troop. As this war drag on, the more investment coming from EU and US, Ukrainian Force is going to grow in number which mean they can pursuit more objective than they can now. On the other hand, can the Russian keep up with the number game and the equipment game is unknown. Bear in mind, US and EU is underwriting the war in Ukraine for Ukraine. Russia is paying for its own war, with heavy economic sanction, the capability of whether or not they can persecute such a war during these economic circumstance is doubtful at best.

In the next week or 2, as more equipment and formation of new Brigade, Ukrainian is expect to conduct a country-wide counter offensive. I would say the next counter offensive focus is going to be in the Southern Region.

*Russian/Ukrainian end game?*

I don't think this war would be decided on the field, I still think this war is going to be decided with the peace talk, the position on the ground will dictate the progress peace talk. I don't think Russia can take anything more than Donbas, I do think the southern corridor is in jeapody from Ukrainian counter attack.

So I would suggest the next Ukrainian counter attack would see who have the bigger carrot in the peace talk. If Russian failed to resist the counter attack, then donbas would not have a favourable outcome. On the other hand, if Ukrainian are not able to dislodge the Russian, then outlook of the Ukrainian defence in Donbas will be grim. They will then be more willing to deal, other than keep fighting.

@Wood @RescueRanger @SQ8 @Paul2 @mmr @LeGenD

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## Foinikas

dBSPL said:


> It was nothing but the massacre carried out by the Russians in Bucha. Babies killed by bullets in the abdomen, mothers killed while they were tried to cover their children, mass graves covered with sand in the playground... What we saw in Syria, what we saw in the siege around Tripoli, now, similar things happening around Kiev.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: +18
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People in the soup queue were shot at. Even pregnant women were raped. People were executed with their hands tied behind their backs. People were executed by being thrown into the sewer well. Not isolated incidents, but over and over again in many place... In some towns, vehicles were unable to even pass through the streets because of human bodies... If these aren't a reflex of Nazism, what else could be?
> 
> Nazism is a crime against humanity. However, politics is such a dangerous tool that you can accuse the other party of Nazism while whats exactly doing is a Nazizm.


How sure are you that these were the Russians?


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## J dud

I am very interested to find out how this war is playing out in Middle Eastern regional politics.

We saw a shift in Middle east after russia decisively won the war in syria for the Assad govt. Now russia is seemingly loosing a war in Europe and we are seeing egypt militarily distancing themselves from russia!

This war will surely cause another shift in Middle east.


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## denel

Foinikas said:


> How sure are you that these were the Russians?


what have you been drinking... ouzo? 

Never seen such a useless post. You are clearly a vested player on this forum deliberately sowing misinformation.

Do us all a favour... listen to nana maskouri.. it will give you some level of reality.... that is if you are greek to begin with..... no greek friends i have say what you are.

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## gambit

J dud said:


> This conflict has been pretty shocking!
> 
> The fact that russian forces are retreating from kiev after a month of fighting looks like a defeat to me . This outcome has gravely impacted russian image as giobal power.
> 
> All non western aligned countries will now be moving away from russia and closer to china . Honestly this defeat of Russia is win for china geopolitically. And i suspect the chinese leadership feels this as well. Thats why *they are not providing any military support to russia*.


Xi played it smart by giving Poutine only limited economic alliance while at the same time spouting nonsensical speeches about Russia. Basically, talk is cheap while sending military aid will be costly in the long run. But Poutine also know what Xi is doing. This war is pretty much a geopolitical miscalculation by Poutine in that now Russia is unexpectedly China's bitch, so why should Xi risk that superior status by doing anything more than just give Poutine some pleasing speeches and buy some Russian products?

Here is the long term deal...

The longer Poutine is in power, the longer will Russia be China's junior partner. Xi have so much more for China to gain by supporting Poutine in the public stage. The longer Russia is China's bitch, the more time China will have to take steps to continually strengthened China's superior status. So China will keep on buying Russia's products to further enriching Poutine personally. This is a win-win for China in that Xi takes a win and China takes a win. The real loser is Russia.

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## dBSPL

Here, some of our friends were talking about the Chinese media being very different from the US media. However, the media of both parties are basically the same. Both manipulate their people.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510830530333331460

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510830547802603523

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510857051806658562

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510928644062932996

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510946258181009416

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## denel

dBSPL said:


> Here, some of our friends were talking about the Chinese media being very different from the US media. However, the media of both parties is basically the same. Both manipulate their people.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510830530333331460
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510830547802603523
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510857051806658562
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510928644062932996
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510946258181009416


Both are cut from same cloth; brainwash entire populous; if anyone complains - poison them or send them to rehabilitiation;

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## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> *Day 40*
> 
> Well, I never thought I would still be writing this in Day 40. But here we are, at Day 40 (About to go to Day 41) of the War in Ukraine. Fighting continue.
> 
> Here are the situation as of Day 40
> 
> View attachment 830541
> 
> 
> So, what's happening?
> 
> *Russia is Culminated*
> 
> We hear this a thousand time, but what does that mean?
> 
> In war, a force is culminated means they are at the high tide mark and can no longer progress forward, usually at the end of their logistic capability. Further gain is unlikely at this point unless a serious reshape and re-contribution to the combat operation at hand.
> 
> Russia at this point reached the high tide mark for the entire operation, The Northern arm has been beaten back, and Ukrainian is counter attacking North East Ukraine. Russia pull off all the force in North and try to reinsert it somewhere either in the East (Near Kharkiv) or South East (Near Donbas)
> 
> *Localised Battle*
> 
> *Kyiv - Russian Retrograde*
> 
> Russian announced a draw back on the North, on the other hand, we have not seen any retrograde operation launched by Russia to preserve its North Force, what we can see is a general withdraw with their force abandoning defensive position around Kyiv and its suburb.
> 
> According to Chapter 7 FM 100-15 A retrograde operation defined as the following.
> 
> 1.) A delay operation to withdraw frontline troop in parts to preserve the frontline, so you don't pull everyone at once and collapse the frontline.
> 2.) A volunteer withdrawal of rear troop, with defensive position destroyed or sabotaged so to denied the enemy for using the defensive structure you have built.
> 3.) Redeploy and/or retired the troop that are not engage in combat.
> 
> We didn't see any of that.......
> 
> Conventional Wisdom suggest for every unit you pull off the front line, you leave 2 unit behind to act as a "Fighting Withdrawal" that way you will always have some troop holding the line and not going to vacate the frontline all at once, this is obviously did not do, because Ukraine took back almost the entire Kyiv Oblast in 2 days, and leave behind carnage suggested that the Russian withdraw is unorganised and sudden.
> 
> On the other hand, defensive position around the line were not destroyed. Noted in Hostomel Airport, this Satellite Image suggested the defensive position remain intact
> 
> View attachment 830563
> 
> 
> From this, we can deduce Russian Operation in Kyiv is not a Retrograde, but a general rout.
> 
> *Odesa*
> 
> Odesa is on the far side of the Western Coast, it being the biggest and only port left with Ukraine, this is a big target for the Russian, so what's happening to it?
> 
> Apart from a missile strike and an artillery strike, nothing.
> 
> Even tho snake island felt on day 1, Odesa was largely untouched. Russian ship is on stand by, however, they cannot launch an amphibious assault until the Russian took Mykolaiv, you need a supply route over land in order to sustain an amphibious operation.
> 
> I would have to say Odesa is safe for now, pending on whether or not Ukrainian can take Kherson during the counter offensive.
> 
> *Kherson*
> 
> I have no doubt in my mind Kherson is the next Counter Offensive Point for Ukrainian. Taking Kherson would pressure Russian troop back to Crimea as you can made a clear dash toward Crimea thru Kherson, and taking Kherson would have weaken the Russian ability to conduct Military Operation in the South and South East.
> 
> During the last few days we have seen limited activities in Kherson area after Ukrainian counter attacked toward Kherson Airfield, this is in my opinion probing work, Ukraine is waiting on heavy equipment (Tanks and Artillery) for a major push, once those equipment is in Ukrainian hand, we would expect to see a General Push toward Kherson and Melitopol Direction.
> 
> *Mariupol*
> 
> Anybody who studied warfare would probably tell you Mariupol would have fall in the first few days of the war. The Proximity (10km toward Donbas frontline) would mean this is more or less a sure things to the Russia. Taking Mariupol would free up a bunch of troop from the South and East so they can have the freedom to move North and encircle the Ukrainian Defender in Donbas.
> 
> 40 days in, Mariupol is still hanging on by a thread. At this stage, I would have to say even if Mariupol felt, the Russian force, with 40 days of hard fighting would have been spent or near spent, which mean the original objective may be already in doubt. On the other hand, if the Ukrainian manage to break thru from Kherson, that will render the advance toward Mariupol pointless, because the Russia would have to pull troop back to defend Crimea. And even if Mariupol did fall, I seriously doubt Russia have enough troop to defend the city from a upcoming counter attack.
> 
> *Kharkiv*
> 
> Kharkiv is probably one of the wild card at the early onset of the war, due to it proximity toward Russian border and it's large ethnic Russian resident, we don't know if Kharkiv would have just fold or people in Kharkiv is going to cooperate with the Russian.
> 
> Kharkiv turns out to be one of the fiercest place of the entire war. Kharkiv have been back and forth, and latest intelligence suggested that Russia is no longer trying to take Kharkiv, and were unable to encircle it. Russian strategy with Kharkiv is by-passing it and going south toward Izyum and trying to encircle the Donbas defender.
> 
> Kharkiv is currently also one of the major point of Ukrainian counter offensive, with supply corridor being pushed back across the border.
> 
> *Overall Situation*
> 
> As of April 4. the situation is probably a stauts quo between the Russian force and Ukrainian Force. Russia have been withdrew from the Northern ends, Kyiv is relief as of now.
> 
> Depending on how Russian rearm and regroup, they may try to invade thru Belarus and into Ukraine again, however, unlike the first time they have the element of surprise, this time, Ukrainian is fully or nearly fully mobilised with time to make defensive position, any further advance is going to be tougher than it was before, which make another push toward Kyiv unlikely.
> 
> On the other hand, Russian is expected to rotate the force and redeploy them toward the south, a logical destination is in Donbas instead of Kharkiv, on the other hand, these force is freshly pull off the field from Kyiv and reinsert them into Donbas for a grinder warfare, I seriously doubt the combat effectiveness of these force without giving them enough time to R&R.
> 
> While the Russian is doing that, Ukrainian have been able to raise another 200,000 TDF troop, and is currently opening another round of mobilisation, basically awaiting armament and equipment to fully kit out the first batch of TDF troop. As this war drag on, the more investment coming from EU and US, Ukrainian Force is going to grow in number which mean they can pursuit more objective than they can now. On the other hand, can the Russian keep up with the number game and the equipment game is unknown. Bear in mind, US and EU is underwriting the war in Ukraine for Ukraine. Russia is paying for its own war, with heavy economic sanction, the capability of whether or not they can persecute such a war during these economic circumstance is doubtful at best.
> 
> In the next week or 2, as more equipment and formation of new Brigade, Ukrainian is expect to conduct a country-wide counter offensive. I would say the next counter offensive focus is going to be in the Southern Region.
> 
> *Russian/Ukrainian end game?*
> 
> I don't think this war would be decided on the field, I still think this war is going to be decided with the peace talk, the position on the ground will dictate the progress peace talk. I don't think Russia can take anything more than Donbas, I do think the southern corridor is in jeapody from Ukrainian counter attack.
> 
> So I would suggest the next Ukrainian counter attack would see who have the bigger carrot in the peace talk. If Russian failed to resist the counter attack, then donbas would not have a favourable outcome. On the other hand, if Ukrainian are not able to dislodge the Russian, then outlook of the Ukrainian defence in Donbas will be grim. They will then be more willing to deal, other than keep fighting.
> 
> @Wood @RescueRanger @SQ8 @Paul2 @mmr @LeGenD


Is this your judgement or that of the ISW? It isn't clear.


----------



## Foinikas

denel said:


> what have you been drinking... ouzo?
> 
> Never seen such a useless post. You are clearly a vested player on this forum deliberately sowing misinformation.
> 
> Do us all a favour... listen to nana maskouri.. it will give you some level of reality.... that is if you are greek to begin with..... no greek friends i have say what you are.


The wars in Yugoslavia,Iraq and Syria have made me suspicious about such things and I don't want to draw any conclusions yet. I've seen a lot of misinformation,lies and propaganda by the West. It's the same story again and again. Not that there aren't thugs and idiots in the Russian Army,but until the whole thing is investigated,I don't take sides on this.

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## FairAndUnbiased

gambit said:


> Xi played it smart by giving Poutine only limited economic alliance while at the same time spouting nonsensical speeches about Russia. Basically, talk is cheap while sending military aid will be costly in the long run. But Poutine also know what Xi is doing. This war is pretty much a geopolitical miscalculation by Poutine in that now Russia is unexpectedly China's bitch, so why should Xi risk that superior status by doing anything more than just give Poutine some pleasing speeches and buy some Russian products?
> 
> Here is the long term deal...
> 
> The longer Poutine is in power, the longer will Russia be China's junior partner. Xi have so much more for China to gain by supporting Poutine in the public stage. The longer Russia is China's bitch, the more time China will have to take steps to continually strengthened China's superior status. So China will keep on buying Russia's products to further enriching Poutine personally. This is a win-win for China in that Xi takes a win and China takes a win. The real loser is Russia.


I mean Russia to China population and GDP ratio is the same as US and Canada. Is Canada a junior partner to the US?


----------



## J dud

gambit said:


> Xi played it smart by giving Poutine only limited economic alliance while at the same time spouting nonsensical speeches about Russia. Basically, talk is cheap while sending military aid will be costly in the long run. But Poutine also know what Xi is doing. This war is pretty much a geopolitical miscalculation by Poutine in that now Russia is unexpectedly China's bitch, so why should Xi risk that superior status by doing anything more than just give Poutine some pleasing speeches and buy some Russian products?
> 
> Here is the long term deal...
> 
> The longer Poutine is in power, the longer will Russia be China's junior partner. Xi have so much more for China to gain by supporting Poutine in the public stage. The longer Russia is China's bitch, the more time China will have to take steps to continually strengthened China's superior status. So China will keep on buying Russia's products to further enriching Poutine personally. This is a win-win for China in that Xi takes a win and China takes a win. The real loser is Russia.


I am suspecting, going forward china will only support russia if it chooses to be the junior partner. 

China will be dominant partner in the alliance. 
I also think , putin is not dumb .. he also understands this. Thats why we see the change in russian strategy to get a more achievable goal in ukraine.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

dBSPL said:


> Here, some of our friends were talking about the Chinese media being very different from the US media. However, the media of both parties are basically the same. Both manipulate their people.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510830530333331460
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510830547802603523
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510857051806658562
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510928644062932996
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510946258181009416


The translations are incorrect (perhaps purposefully). Every Russian talking point is clearly labeled a Russian claim while Ukrainian claims are also laid out.

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## denel

Foinikas said:


> The wars in Yugoslavia,Iraq and Syria have made me suspicious about such things and I don't want to draw any conclusions yet. I've seen a lot of misinformation,lies and propaganda by the West. It's the same story again and again. Not that there aren't thugs and idiots in the Russian Army,but until the whole thing is investigated,I don't take sides on this.



Did you know any one who went and saw what happened in Yugoslavia? I did... my best friend went and saw what the f. serbs did.. You are here to glorify Serbs now? Until the mujahideen came and turned the war around and gave these serbians

What is happening is genocide .. period.. Dont sugar coat it; the Russians are dogs at the end of the day. What is so sad, I see Pak members supporting these Russians... they convinently forget all the toys which had explosives in them being dropped so that children would pick up and maime the children... what that fake?









The Afghan child and the bright red plastic truck


AWEEK before, Soviet armor and paratroops had pulled out of the area in Afghanistan's Ningarhar Province. Behind them they left a variety of toys,




www.csmonitor.com













Soviet Child Mines — Forgotten History


Throughout the Cold War period the Soviet Union, along with other countries, developed and used landmines heavily in combat zones. Usually small and meant to be dropped by aircraft over an area these mines can have a long lasting impact after the war is over. One mine in particular has been specific




www.forgottenhistory.me






I am not going to waste any more time with people who are either mentally sick or paid agents to sow disinformation. Bottom line innocent people have died at the hands of these Russian thugs...


This is what these dogs did in Syria and they got away with it.









Opinion | Russia has killed more Syrian civilians than ISIS. Why are they getting away with it?


Russia has played a pivotal role in undermining human rights norms over the past decade.




forward.com





We need the ICJ to hang these bastards.....

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## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Is this your judgement or that of the ISW? It isn't clear.


Can you even read? Or you can just look at the picture??

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511059265905172485


----------



## F-22Raptor

denel said:


> Did you know any one who went and saw what happened in Yugoslavia? I did... my best friend went and saw what the f. serbs did.. You are here to glorify Serbs now? Until the mujahideen came and turned the war around and gave these serbians
> 
> What is happening is genocide .. period.. Dont sugar coat it; the Russians are dogs at the end of the day. What is so sad, I see Pak members supporting these Russians... they convinently forget all the toys which had explosives in them being dropped so that children would pick up and maime the children... what that fake?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Afghan child and the bright red plastic truck
> 
> 
> AWEEK before, Soviet armor and paratroops had pulled out of the area in Afghanistan's Ningarhar Province. Behind them they left a variety of toys,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.csmonitor.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soviet Child Mines — Forgotten History
> 
> 
> Throughout the Cold War period the Soviet Union, along with other countries, developed and used landmines heavily in combat zones. Usually small and meant to be dropped by aircraft over an area these mines can have a long lasting impact after the war is over. One mine in particular has been specific
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forgottenhistory.me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not going to waste any more time with people who are either mentally sick or paid agents to sow disinformation. Bottom line innocent people have died at the hands of these Russian thugs...
> 
> 
> This is what these dogs did in Syria and they got away with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Opinion | Russia has killed more Syrian civilians than ISIS. Why are they getting away with it?
> 
> 
> Russia has played a pivotal role in undermining human rights norms over the past decade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forward.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We need the ICJ to hang these bastards.....





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511043584400797700

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511044781253832704

The Russian Nazis have never changed

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

@LeGenD @gambit @dbc @jhungary 

Any reason USA and NATO have not provided any lethal drones to Ukraine?
All I see is anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons

Is this due to fears of American weapons falling into Russian hands similar to how Taliban obtained USA weapons used by former Afghan army?


----------



## denel

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511043584400797700
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511044781253832704
> 
> The Russian Nazis have never changed


my late grand mother was always right; a russian knows only one language ... a hammer in his face....


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> Can you even read? Or you can just look at the picture??


This is a very simple question. I am not disputing any of the claims there, I just want to know where it came from so I can cite it later.


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## dBSPL

A trustee has been appointed to Gazprom Germania, the German subsidiary of Russian Gazprom.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## CIA Mole

Syama Ayas said:


> @LeGenD @gambit @dbc @jhungary
> 
> Any reason USA and NATO have not provided any lethal drones to Ukraine?
> All I see is anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons
> 
> Is this due to fears of American weapons falling into Russian hands similar to how Taliban obtained USA weapons used by former Afghan army?


who will operate

also how they know its not US operator


us can operate drones all over the world from us



only light weapons will be sent to harass russians the same way NATO got harassed in iraq and afghanistan

NATO learning from their humiliation atleast


----------



## jhungary

Syama Ayas said:


> @LeGenD @gambit @dbc @jhungary
> 
> Any reason USA and NATO have not provided any lethal drones to Ukraine?
> All I see is anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons
> 
> Is this due to fears of American weapons falling into Russian hands similar to how Taliban obtained USA weapons used by former Afghan army?


Well, not sure about NATO, in the US, you need a fully qualified pilot to fly a combat drone, there are group that I know of transition from F-16 to flying Predator back when I was in the Army (I talked to some of these guys)

In Ukrainian case, Pilot is not dime and dozen like we do in the US, which mean if they have pilot to spare and fly those thing, they would probably bunch him/her up and fly sorties with SU-27 or Mig-29.

We have supplied non-combat drone (Recon Drone, or even MQ-1) but then that is not the same as flying a Reaper or Predator.



FairAndUnbiased said:


> This is a very simple question. I am not disputing any of the claims there, I just want to know where it came from so I can cite it later.


Again, read the post and see where it came from.

In case you are still confused, ISW only deal with current stuff, they analyse current situation, read the post and see if I am just talking about current situation in Ukraine?

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## That Guy

FairAndUnbiased said:


> I mean Russia to China population and GDP ratio is the same as US and Canada. Is Canada a junior partner to the US?


Yes.

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## FairAndUnbiased

@dBSPL

Specific example: in the panel about CCTV-4 the claim is that Chinese media said Bucha was a "show for western media" and only reported on Russian claims. That is false.

The text is 乌称俄军杀害平民，俄驳斥乌方炮制“一出好戏”

You can match this text with the picture to confirm I am correct.

The correct translation: *Ukraine* *claims* Russian troops massacred civilians. *Russia* *claims* it is a show for western media.

BIG difference from the claimed translation, shown below for reference. The actual translation clearly marks who is making which claim and published both claims *without saying which one is correct, only that the claims were made.*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510928644062932996

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## Foinikas

denel said:


> my late grand mother was always right; a russian knows only one language ... a hammer in his face....


Is that a movie about Chechnya?


----------



## That Guy

Syama Ayas said:


> @LeGenD @gambit @dbc @jhungary
> 
> Any reason USA and NATO have not provided any lethal drones to Ukraine?
> All I see is anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons
> 
> Is this due to fears of American weapons falling into Russian hands similar to how Taliban obtained USA weapons used by former Afghan army?


Turkey (NATO) provided a bunch of TB2s which have caused a lot of damage to Russia. The US recently delivered Loitering munitions.

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## gambit

J dud said:


> I am suspecting, going forward china will only support russia if it chooses to be the junior partner.
> 
> China will be dominant partner in the alliance.
> I also think , *putin is not dumb .. he also understands this.* Thats why we see the change in russian strategy to get a more achievable goal in ukraine.


Absolutely Poutine is not stupid. Intelligent people make miscalculations, errors in judgement, or just stupid mistakes all the time. All of us have one time or another and for the rest of our lives. So this is not about IQ but more about making decisions based on info/intel, and in this case, seemingly really really bad intel. The *Russia*-China alliance have always been there with the expectation that Russia will make all the major decisions. But nothing is more impressionable than a war and unexpectedly, this Russia-Ukraine war upset that expectation. Now everyone, especially in the UN Security Council, will see this as the new *China*-Russia alliance with China making all the major decisions.

Am USAF and my main interest was the Russian Air Force (VKS) in this war. At the 3 weeks mark, I was at the 50/50 threshold of calling the VKS a failure. Now, it is pointless. Field Marshall Bernard Montgomery said *"If we lose the war in the air we lose the war and we lose it quickly."* The corollary is that if you do not have control of the air, it will take you longer to win the war, if you can win it at all. The VKS *IS* a failure. I am willing to go out on a limb and posit that from now on, non-Western aligned militaries will look to China even more for war doctrines as well as importing their defense hardware, and as an Air Force guy, I see the PLAAF as preeminent in that bloc.

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## jhungary

That Guy said:


> Turkey (NATO) provided a bunch of TB2s which have caused a lot of damage to Russia. The US recently delivered Loitering munitions.


In my view, TB-2 is enough. Why would they provide more drone if the Ukrainian is just as happy to use the TB2 and take on the Russian?

ON the other hand, Loitering munition is going to be a game changer to Ukraine, it's not what they can do that scare the Russian (Well, that too), it's simply the fact that Russian know Ukrainian having them and don't know if one is circling above your head is the part that scare you.

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## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511043584400797700
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511044781253832704
> 
> The Russian Nazis have never changed


disgusting. the asshole killer will burn in hell.

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## denel

Foinikas said:


> A typical pro-Western Sunni who bashes the Serbs,Assad and the Russians. I've seen many like you online. I will not call you "mentally sick",like you called me,no you are not. But I will call you naive and ignorant of certain things. You are eager to believe mainstream propaganda and accept whatever the American media are saying. I don't ask you to like the Russians. I'm not Russian. I'm Greek.
> All I'm saying is that you should try to see this objectively and wonder why the Americans suddenly got a hard-on for saving Muslims in Yugoslavia,Syria and Ukrainians.
> 
> You should wait before you rush to take a side


i have seen first hand what russians do.... HAVE YOU?

please keep quiet and drink oozo and play some PS4 or with some sheep.



gambit said:


> Absolutely Poutine is not stupid. Intelligent people make miscalculations, errors in judgement, or just stupid mistakes all the time. All of us have one time or another and for the rest of our lives. So this is not about IQ but more about making decisions based on info/intel, and in this case, seemingly really really bad intel. The *Russia*-China alliance have always been there with the expectation that Russia will make all the major decisions. But nothing is more impressionable than a war and unexpectedly, this Russia-Ukraine war upset that expectation. Now everyone, especially in the UN Security Council, will see this as the new *China*-Russia alliance with China making all the major decisions.
> 
> Am USAF and my main interest was the Russian Air Force (VKS) in this war. At the 3 weeks mark, I was at the 50/50 threshold of calling the VKS a failure. Now, it is pointless. Field Marshall Bernard Montgomery said *"If we lose the war in the air we lose the war and we lose it quickly."* The corollary is that if you do not have control of the air, it will take you longer to win the war, if you can win it at all. The VKS *IS* a failure. I am willing to go out on a limb and posit that from now on, non-Western aligned militaries will look to China even more for war doctrines as well as importing their defense hardware, and as an Air Force guy, I see the PLAAF as preeminent in that bloc.


unfortunately Putin miscalculated because of Yes minister phenomena.....

noone tells him anything that is not 'pravda'. 

that means - bull kak...

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## The SC

The largest American newspapers, influential in the American street and the world say:

No, Joe Biden, Dipping Into Oil Reserves Won't Fix Prices​​Americans Face More Pain as Ukraine War Poised to 'Blow US Food Costs Sky High​
Inflation Spikes to New 40-Year High, with Food and Gas Prices Leading the Surge​

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## That Guy

The SC said:


> View attachment 830617


Not only is this extremely wrong, it's also irrelevant to the thread, I suggest deleting it.


----------



## Foinikas

denel said:


> i have seen first hand what russians do.... HAVE YOU?


Where?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511061258233122824


jamahir said:


> This is just NATO looking to impose a no-fly-zone over Ukraine and also in your comrade, @Apollon's fantasy, extend the no-fly-zone 250 kms inside Russia's border with Ukraine but if that does not come about then try to do regime change in Russia using fake feminists like Pussy Riot and CIA agents among the emigres like Garry Kasparov who can be in the White-House-arranged "Russian government in exile" like the White House fronts 2011-era-and-onwards Libyan Transitional Council and Syrian National Council and of course the "Tibetan government in exile" :
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510689485549359109
> 
> 
> 
> Good riddance !





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511061258233122824

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> @Oldman1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> West sends Ukraine long-range artillery to counter-attack Putin
> 
> 
> THE WEST will send Ukraine long-range artillery to counter-attack Russian forces "digging in" to pound cities, Ben Wallace revealed. The Defence Secretary yesterday revealed more lethal aid will be given to Kyiv to fight the Kremlin's killers. Russia's plans to storm into Kyiv have "fallen...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.express.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like UK is either sending M270 MLRS or AS90 to Ukraine. It could also be BAe System HiMAR - even tho UK did not use them.


I was expecting something more Russian design. I mean Russians are known for making artillery and missiles and rockets as their primary usage in their wars. Can't be HIMARS since the U.S. has it and the only other country in Europe I checked in is Romania. Don't know if they are giving those up. In any case, hope they send them in soon as well as provide more serious SAMs systems to help provide air cover. I just read on the twitter that the Russians have transferred dozens of helos as well as dozens of ground attack aircraft the SU-25s from Bulgaria for the offensive soon. Probably more from Russia itself. Putin is putting all his chips on this to get a victory of some kind and get it by May 9 with territorial concessions from Ukraine which is to me IMO unacceptable. It will hurt Ukraine's security and economically in the future when Russia invades again where Ukraine is more exposed. Also need to remind them that they need those Switchblade 600 in massive quantities as well. Need to jumpstart that production quicker.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511063915907665938



Spoiler: Graphic



https://twitter.com/unrepentanteast/status/1511045611302359042





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511023945386020873

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511014978341548038



Spoiler: Graphic



https://twitter.com/unrepentanteast/status/1511015234231746561

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> In my view, TB-2 is enough. Why would they provide more drone if the Ukrainian is just as happy to use the TB2 and take on the Russian?
> 
> ON the other hand, Loitering munition is going to be a game changer to Ukraine, it's not what they can do that scare the Russian (Well, that too), it's simply the fact that Russian know Ukrainian having them and don't know if one is circling above your head is the part that scare you.


Hopefully they keep sending in more of them, we don't know how long this war will actually be, probably not even end by May 9. So need to open more production facilities. The longer the war is, the more suffering for everybody around the world. Even a Great Depression.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511061258233122824
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511061258233122824


LOL, they resort to the movement of the arm of one of the dead as fake for a raindrop on the windshield. Same for another body that was moving even though it was the mirror movement. Can't fake them anyways considering the foreign journalists and photographers were there and took pictures of those same dead bodies.

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## thetutle

Foinikas said:


> My Pakistani friend showed this to me:
> 
> View attachment 830576


Let me fix that for her. She forgot to add. "neighbours that fight back".


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511003556408709122

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510970625136943118

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510944329765896208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510904250624323587


----------



## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> *Day 40*
> 
> Well, I never thought I would still be writing this in Day 40. But here we are, at Day 40 (About to go to Day 41) of the War in Ukraine. Fighting continue.
> 
> Here are the situation as of Day 40
> 
> View attachment 830541
> 
> 
> So, what's happening?
> 
> *Russia is Culminated*
> 
> We hear this a thousand time, but what does that mean?
> 
> In war, a force is culminated means they are at the high tide mark and can no longer progress forward, usually at the end of their logistic capability. Further gain is unlikely at this point unless a serious reshape and re-contribution to the combat operation at hand.
> 
> Russia at this point reached the high tide mark for the entire operation, The Northern arm has been beaten back, and Ukrainian is counter attacking North East Ukraine. Russia pull off all the force in North and try to reinsert it somewhere either in the East (Near Kharkiv) or South East (Near Donbas)
> 
> *Localised Battle*
> 
> *Kyiv - Russian Retrograde*
> 
> Russian announced a draw back on the North, on the other hand, we have not seen any retrograde operation launched by Russia to preserve its North Force, what we can see is a general withdraw with their force abandoning defensive position around Kyiv and its suburb.
> 
> According to Chapter 7 FM 100-15 A retrograde operation defined as the following.
> 
> 1.) A delay operation to withdraw frontline troop in parts to preserve the frontline, so you don't pull everyone at once and collapse the frontline.
> 2.) A volunteer withdrawal of rear troop, with defensive position destroyed or sabotaged so to denied the enemy for using the defensive structure you have built.
> 3.) Redeploy and/or retired the troop that are not engage in combat.
> 
> We didn't see any of that.......
> 
> Conventional Wisdom suggest for every unit you pull off the front line, you leave 2 unit behind to act as a "Fighting Withdrawal" that way you will always have some troop holding the line and not going to vacate the frontline all at once, this is obviously did not do, because Ukraine took back almost the entire Kyiv Oblast in 2 days, and leave behind carnage suggested that the Russian withdraw is unorganised and sudden.
> 
> On the other hand, defensive position around the line were not destroyed. Noted in Hostomel Airport, this Satellite Image suggested the defensive position remain intact
> 
> View attachment 830563
> 
> 
> From this, we can deduce Russian Operation in Kyiv is not a Retrograde, but a general rout.
> 
> *Odesa*
> 
> Odesa is on the far side of the Western Coast, it being the biggest and only port left with Ukraine, this is a big target for the Russian, so what's happening to it?
> 
> Apart from a missile strike and an artillery strike, nothing.
> 
> Even tho snake island felt on day 1, Odesa was largely untouched. Russian ship is on stand by, however, they cannot launch an amphibious assault until the Russian took Mykolaiv, you need a supply route over land in order to sustain an amphibious operation.
> 
> I would have to say Odesa is safe for now, pending on whether or not Ukrainian can take Kherson during the counter offensive.
> 
> *Kherson*
> 
> I have no doubt in my mind Kherson is the next Counter Offensive Point for Ukrainian. Taking Kherson would pressure Russian troop back to Crimea as you can made a clear dash toward Crimea thru Kherson, and taking Kherson would have weaken the Russian ability to conduct Military Operation in the South and South East.
> 
> During the last few days we have seen limited activities in Kherson area after Ukrainian counter attacked toward Kherson Airfield, this is in my opinion probing work, Ukraine is waiting on heavy equipment (Tanks and Artillery) for a major push, once those equipment is in Ukrainian hand, we would expect to see a General Push toward Kherson and Melitopol Direction.
> 
> *Mariupol*
> 
> Anybody who studied warfare would probably tell you Mariupol would have fall in the first few days of the war. The Proximity (10km toward Donbas frontline) would mean this is more or less a sure things to the Russia. Taking Mariupol would free up a bunch of troop from the South and East so they can have the freedom to move North and encircle the Ukrainian Defender in Donbas.
> 
> 40 days in, Mariupol is still hanging on by a thread. At this stage, I would have to say even if Mariupol felt, the Russian force, with 40 days of hard fighting would have been spent or near spent, which mean the original objective may be already in doubt. On the other hand, if the Ukrainian manage to break thru from Kherson, that will render the advance toward Mariupol pointless, because the Russia would have to pull troop back to defend Crimea. And even if Mariupol did fall, I seriously doubt Russia have enough troop to defend the city from a upcoming counter attack.
> 
> *Kharkiv*
> 
> Kharkiv is probably one of the wild card at the early onset of the war, due to it proximity toward Russian border and it's large ethnic Russian resident, we don't know if Kharkiv would have just fold or people in Kharkiv is going to cooperate with the Russian.
> 
> Kharkiv turns out to be one of the fiercest place of the entire war. Kharkiv have been back and forth, and latest intelligence suggested that Russia is no longer trying to take Kharkiv, and were unable to encircle it. Russian strategy with Kharkiv is by-passing it and going south toward Izyum and trying to encircle the Donbas defender.
> 
> Kharkiv is currently also one of the major point of Ukrainian counter offensive, with supply corridor being pushed back across the border.
> 
> *Overall Situation*
> 
> As of April 4. the situation is probably a stauts quo between the Russian force and Ukrainian Force. Russia have been withdrew from the Northern ends, Kyiv is relief as of now.
> 
> Depending on how Russian rearm and regroup, they may try to invade thru Belarus and into Ukraine again, however, unlike the first time they have the element of surprise, this time, Ukrainian is fully or nearly fully mobilised with time to make defensive position, any further advance is going to be tougher than it was before, which make another push toward Kyiv unlikely.
> 
> On the other hand, Russian is expected to rotate the force and redeploy them toward the south, a logical destination is in Donbas instead of Kharkiv, on the other hand, these force is freshly pull off the field from Kyiv and reinsert them into Donbas for a grinder warfare, I seriously doubt the combat effectiveness of these force without giving them enough time to R&R.
> 
> While the Russian is doing that, Ukrainian have been able to raise another 200,000 TDF troop, and is currently opening another round of mobilisation, basically awaiting armament and equipment to fully kit out the first batch of TDF troop. As this war drag on, the more investment coming from EU and US, Ukrainian Force is going to grow in number which mean they can pursuit more objective than they can now. On the other hand, can the Russian keep up with the number game and the equipment game is unknown. Bear in mind, US and EU is underwriting the war in Ukraine for Ukraine. Russia is paying for its own war, with heavy economic sanction, the capability of whether or not they can persecute such a war during these economic circumstance is doubtful at best.
> 
> In the next week or 2, as more equipment and formation of new Brigade, Ukrainian is expect to conduct a country-wide counter offensive. I would say the next counter offensive focus is going to be in the Southern Region.
> 
> *Russian/Ukrainian end game?*
> 
> I don't think this war would be decided on the field, I still think this war is going to be decided with the peace talk, the position on the ground will dictate the progress peace talk. I don't think Russia can take anything more than Donbas, I do think the southern corridor is in jeapody from Ukrainian counter attack.
> 
> So I would suggest the next Ukrainian counter attack would see who have the bigger carrot in the peace talk. If Russian failed to resist the counter attack, then donbas would not have a favourable outcome. On the other hand, if Ukrainian are not able to dislodge the Russian, then outlook of the Ukrainian defence in Donbas will be grim. They will then be more willing to deal, other than keep fighting.
> 
> @Wood @RescueRanger @SQ8 @Paul2 @mmr @LeGenD


Definitely need to start taking Kherson soon before the big event with those tanks and other armor vehicles being delivered by the west, also need to be helping and reinforcing Kharkiv as well as hitting or flanking Russian forces trying to encircle next to Kharkiv at the same time because the Russians want to deal with that city, either encircle it completely or try to take it, because they don't want that city behind their backs while trying to encircle tens of thousands of Ukrainian troops in Donbas region. Odessa should be fine with anti ship missiles and no supply line provided by the Russians and got pushed back at the city of Mykolaiv. Still need to take Melitopol as well.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511023549129101324

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wergeland

gambit said:


> Absolutely Poutine is not stupid. Intelligent people make miscalculations, errors in judgement, or just stupid mistakes all the time. All of us have one time or another and for the rest of our lives. So this is not about IQ but more about making decisions based on info/intel, and in this case, seemingly really really bad intel. The *Russia*-China alliance have always been there with the expectation that Russia will make all the major decisions. But nothing is more impressionable than a war and unexpectedly, this Russia-Ukraine war upset that expectation. Now everyone, especially in the UN Security Council, will see this as the new *China*-Russia alliance with China making all the major decisions.
> 
> Am USAF and my main interest was the Russian Air Force (VKS) in this war. At the 3 weeks mark, I was at the 50/50 threshold of calling the VKS a failure. Now, it is pointless. Field Marshall Bernard Montgomery said *"If we lose the war in the air we lose the war and we lose it quickly."* The corollary is that if you do not have control of the air, it will take you longer to win the war, if you can win it at all. The VKS *IS* a failure. I am willing to go out on a limb and posit that from now on, non-Western aligned militaries will look to China even more for war doctrines as well as importing their defense hardware, and as an Air Force guy, I see the PLAAF as preeminent in that bloc.


Many good points but…
Is there anything that suggest Russia really tried to take full control of Ukraine airspace? I mean like going all inn and taking out every Ukrainian air wing and SAM systems.

There is something really fishy about Russian intentions and actions in this war. To me it looks like Russia simply is afraid to go in with full force. I think the main goal maybe actually to teach Ukraine (and others) a lesson. Demilitarize and make it less anti-Russian.

edit: Although Russia has not enforced a de jure NO Fly Zone still Ukraine airspace is more or less de facto in Russian control. Also Russia might have drawn its conclusions from full blown US invasions in Afg and Iraq, that a full scale take over is very risky.


----------



## The SC

Russian delegate to the United Nations: Britain's rejection of Russia's invitation to hold a Security Council meeting on Ukraine's Bucha is an unprecedented decision in the history of the United Nations..

@sputnik_ar



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510942535396605952


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511074260088930310

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511028060140810248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510919740612612097

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509137655421968385

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511054165128142851


----------



## Primus

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510982990385623046


----------



## thetutle

Syama Ayas said:


> @LeGenD @gambit @dbc @jhungary
> 
> Any reason USA and NATO have not provided any lethal drones to Ukraine?
> All I see is anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons
> 
> Is this due to fears of American weapons falling into Russian hands similar to how Taliban obtained USA weapons used by former Afghan army?


You obviously dont consider Turkey a NATO member.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Cthulhu

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511044781253832704
> 
> The Russian Nazis have never changed


This is a clip from a 2014 French movie called "The Search", Not sure why this clip keeps popping up.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511060668610457612

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511105626809810945

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Where's the proof for 30%+ losses?
> 
> It looks like they retreated in order and kept their equipment.
> 
> No pictures of miles upon miles of destroyed vehicles that you'd expect from a rout.
> 
> No video of Ukrainian troops in contact even 5 days after the retreat.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511098969518231553


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511107170724634625

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496594192793063438

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511107170724634625
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496594192793063438


Lmao, a putin puppet.


----------



## Wood

Very funny 😄


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511059265905172485




This should've been all over the news, but it didn't. Not sure why though.


----------



## Kyusuibu Honbu

thetutle said:


> You obviously dont consider Turkey a NATO member.


Turkish drones were purchased by Ukraine prior, not provided as weapons aid currently

My question was from context of weapons being provided as of now


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511113129429803008


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511078585498492937
It looks like a mass surrender of Ukrainian forces.


----------



## jamal18

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> This should've been all over the news, but it didn't. Not sure why though.


 Ofcourse the western media won't show it, it breaks with the narrative!

Mariupol has held out longer than expected, this entire operation seems slow. They will now move their forces to encircle what is left of the Ukrainian forces in the East and destroy them.

As for Bucha, it seeme that Nato and Britain in particular aren't keen on an impartial investigation. I wonder why not?

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
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## gambit

Wergeland said:


> Is there anything that suggest Russia really tried to take full control of Ukraine airspace? I mean like going all inn and taking out every Ukrainian air wing and SAM systems.
> 
> There is something really fishy about Russian intentions and actions in this war. To me it looks like Russia simply is afraid to go in with full force. I think the main goal maybe actually to teach Ukraine (and others) a lesson. Demilitarize and make it less anti-Russian.
> 
> edit: Although Russia has not enforced a de jure NO Fly Zone still Ukraine airspace is more or less de facto in Russian control. Also Russia might have drawn its conclusions from full blown US invasions in Afg and Iraq, that a full scale take over is very risky.


My comments about the VKS are here...









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments






defence.pk













Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Map according to southfront (russians)



defence.pk





If my suspicion is true that the VKS essentially used the old Soviet concept of airpower and employment of the same in Ukraine, then the VKS cannot achieve air superiority over a country as large as Ukraine, and that it is only the smaller size of the Ukrainian Air Force that the VKS have that _de facto_ control of Ukrainian airspace.



https://media.defense.gov/2017/Dec/27/2001861508/-1/-1/0/T_0029_FADOK_BOYD_AND_WARDEN.PDF



Boyd and Warden represent a major transition in the evolution of air power theory. Early air power theorists argued that one could defeat the enemy by paralyzing his war-making and war-sustaining capabilities—a form of economic warfare based upon industrial targeting. In contrast, Boyd and Warden contend that one should target enemy command and control—that is, control warfare based upon command targeting.​​Boyd and Warden represent a shift from this economic warfare to what some term control warfare. *Boyd’s version of control warfare is more process-oriented in terms of operating inside enemy OODA loops. On the other hand, Warden’s version is more form-oriented in terms of parallel, inside-out attack against the enemy’s Five Rings. That said, both espouse control warfare based upon command targeting.*​
We can see the progression of early airpower up to where John Boyd and John Warden advocated. Back in WW II, the US Army Air Corps bombed Germany's war-making and war-sustaining capabilities such as the Ploesti oil refineries and the Schweinfurt ball bearing factories. In Desert Storm, we attacked Iraq's command and control and associated information gathering capabilities such as early warning radars. Radars are intelligence.

Under the Soviet concept and employment of airpower as 'airborne artillery', ground commanders dictate the direction and intensity of *LOCAL* airpower, and by 'local', it mean targeting enemy forces 24-48 hrs ahead. Oil refineries and ball bearing factories are weeks ahead, meaning it takes weeks to turn oil into fuel and ball bearings to install into vehicles. But if you target enemy forces that are 24-28 hrs ahead, you will be shooting at enemy ground forces that are either on the way to you or entrenched waiting for you. In this, airpower is limited to local combat, not regional or national economic and/or command and control capabilities. We never met during the Cold War and now in Ukraine we finally found out that seemingly the current VKS have not made any philosophical and conceptual progress since WW II. If you look at Figure 3 on page 25 of the above doc, the VKS pretty stopped at ring 3 'infrastructure' but concentrated at rings 4 (population) and 5 (fielded forces). The employment of the VKS in Ukraine correlates too much to the old Soviet 'airborne artillery' concept of airpower.

There is a parallel cause on why the VKS performed so poorly over Ukraine: economics. Poutine may have given the Russian military some budgetary boost from improved economy overall, but it was not enough. In Desert Storm, we hit all of the Warden Five Rings in one day. We did it because we could. The US had enough air assets to do it alone but we ended up with allies to help. The VKS did not because it could not. So the VKS had no choice but subordinate itself to ground commanders. In the end, since the VKS could not perform like Desert Storm, might as well do the most good by working for the Russian Army. Many will not like this but US/NATO air forces would have erased the VKS from the air.

For the long term, it now falls to China, specifically Chinese concept of airpower, to lead the non-West aligned air forces. Would the PLAAF adopt the Boyd-Warden ways of airpower? Maybe, but that would require a re-conceptualization of the entire PLA itself to be an expeditionary military like how the US military is. How expeditionary? Again, back to Desert Storm. Historically, expeditionary armies lived off the land. They took food and make their arms from local sources. But with DS, the US shipped everything we need from one hemisphere to the other. This is how much the PLA must change. Could is one thing, but 'can do' is another. Can the PLA become as expeditionary? China shares borders with 11 countries and not all of them friendlies. That mean a good portion of the PLA must be constantly on the alert on the home front whereas the US do not worry about Canada and Mexico.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510985425455915012


----------



## Type59

jhungary said:


> *Day 40*
> 
> Well, I never thought I would still be writing this in Day 40. But here we are, at Day 40 (About to go to Day 41) of the War in Ukraine. Fighting continue.
> 
> Here are the situation as of Day 40
> 
> View attachment 830541
> 
> 
> So, what's happening?
> 
> *Russia is Culminated*
> 
> We hear this a thousand time, but what does that mean?
> 
> In war, a force is culminated means they are at the high tide mark and can no longer progress forward, usually at the end of their logistic capability. Further gain is unlikely at this point unless a serious reshape and re-contribution to the combat operation at hand.
> 
> Russia at this point reached the high tide mark for the entire operation, The Northern arm has been beaten back, and Ukrainian is counter attacking North East Ukraine. Russia pull off all the force in North and try to reinsert it somewhere either in the East (Near Kharkiv) or South East (Near Donbas)
> 
> *Localised Battle*
> 
> *Kyiv - Russian Retrograde*
> 
> Russian announced a draw back on the North, on the other hand, we have not seen any retrograde operation launched by Russia to preserve its North Force, what we can see is a general withdraw with their force abandoning defensive position around Kyiv and its suburb.
> 
> According to Chapter 7 FM 100-15 A retrograde operation defined as the following.
> 
> 1.) A delay operation to withdraw frontline troop in parts to preserve the frontline, so you don't pull everyone at once and collapse the frontline.
> 2.) A volunteer withdrawal of rear troop, with defensive position destroyed or sabotaged so to denied the enemy for using the defensive structure you have built.
> 3.) Redeploy and/or retired the troop that are not engage in combat.
> 
> We didn't see any of that.......
> 
> Conventional Wisdom suggest for every unit you pull off the front line, you leave 2 unit behind to act as a "Fighting Withdrawal" that way you will always have some troop holding the line and not going to vacate the frontline all at once, this is obviously did not do, because Ukraine took back almost the entire Kyiv Oblast in 2 days, and leave behind carnage suggested that the Russian withdraw is unorganised and sudden.
> 
> On the other hand, defensive position around the line were not destroyed. Noted in Hostomel Airport, this Satellite Image suggested the defensive position remain intact
> 
> View attachment 830563
> 
> 
> From this, we can deduce Russian Operation in Kyiv is not a Retrograde, but a general rout.
> 
> *Odesa*
> 
> Odesa is on the far side of the Western Coast, it being the biggest and only port left with Ukraine, this is a big target for the Russian, so what's happening to it?
> 
> Apart from a missile strike and an artillery strike, nothing.
> 
> Even tho snake island felt on day 1, Odesa was largely untouched. Russian ship is on stand by, however, they cannot launch an amphibious assault until the Russian took Mykolaiv, you need a supply route over land in order to sustain an amphibious operation.
> 
> I would have to say Odesa is safe for now, pending on whether or not Ukrainian can take Kherson during the counter offensive.
> 
> *Kherson*
> 
> I have no doubt in my mind Kherson is the next Counter Offensive Point for Ukrainian. Taking Kherson would pressure Russian troop back to Crimea as you can made a clear dash toward Crimea thru Kherson, and taking Kherson would have weaken the Russian ability to conduct Military Operation in the South and South East.
> 
> During the last few days we have seen limited activities in Kherson area after Ukrainian counter attacked toward Kherson Airfield, this is in my opinion probing work, Ukraine is waiting on heavy equipment (Tanks and Artillery) for a major push, once those equipment is in Ukrainian hand, we would expect to see a General Push toward Kherson and Melitopol Direction.
> 
> *Mariupol*
> 
> Anybody who studied warfare would probably tell you Mariupol would have fall in the first few days of the war. The Proximity (10km toward Donbas frontline) would mean this is more or less a sure things to the Russia. Taking Mariupol would free up a bunch of troop from the South and East so they can have the freedom to move North and encircle the Ukrainian Defender in Donbas.
> 
> 40 days in, Mariupol is still hanging on by a thread. At this stage, I would have to say even if Mariupol felt, the Russian force, with 40 days of hard fighting would have been spent or near spent, which mean the original objective may be already in doubt. On the other hand, if the Ukrainian manage to break thru from Kherson, that will render the advance toward Mariupol pointless, because the Russia would have to pull troop back to defend Crimea. And even if Mariupol did fall, I seriously doubt Russia have enough troop to defend the city from a upcoming counter attack.
> 
> *Kharkiv*
> 
> Kharkiv is probably one of the wild card at the early onset of the war, due to it proximity toward Russian border and it's large ethnic Russian resident, we don't know if Kharkiv would have just fold or people in Kharkiv is going to cooperate with the Russian.
> 
> Kharkiv turns out to be one of the fiercest place of the entire war. Kharkiv have been back and forth, and latest intelligence suggested that Russia is no longer trying to take Kharkiv, and were unable to encircle it. Russian strategy with Kharkiv is by-passing it and going south toward Izyum and trying to encircle the Donbas defender.
> 
> Kharkiv is currently also one of the major point of Ukrainian counter offensive, with supply corridor being pushed back across the border.
> 
> *Overall Situation*
> 
> As of April 4. the situation is probably a stauts quo between the Russian force and Ukrainian Force. Russia have been withdrew from the Northern ends, Kyiv is relief as of now.
> 
> Depending on how Russian rearm and regroup, they may try to invade thru Belarus and into Ukraine again, however, unlike the first time they have the element of surprise, this time, Ukrainian is fully or nearly fully mobilised with time to make defensive position, any further advance is going to be tougher than it was before, which make another push toward Kyiv unlikely.
> 
> On the other hand, Russian is expected to rotate the force and redeploy them toward the south, a logical destination is in Donbas instead of Kharkiv, on the other hand, these force is freshly pull off the field from Kyiv and reinsert them into Donbas for a grinder warfare, I seriously doubt the combat effectiveness of these force without giving them enough time to R&R.
> 
> While the Russian is doing that, Ukrainian have been able to raise another 200,000 TDF troop, and is currently opening another round of mobilisation, basically awaiting armament and equipment to fully kit out the first batch of TDF troop. As this war drag on, the more investment coming from EU and US, Ukrainian Force is going to grow in number which mean they can pursuit more objective than they can now. On the other hand, can the Russian keep up with the number game and the equipment game is unknown. Bear in mind, US and EU is underwriting the war in Ukraine for Ukraine. Russia is paying for its own war, with heavy economic sanction, the capability of whether or not they can persecute such a war during these economic circumstance is doubtful at best.
> 
> In the next week or 2, as more equipment and formation of new Brigade, Ukrainian is expect to conduct a country-wide counter offensive. I would say the next counter offensive focus is going to be in the Southern Region.
> 
> *Russian/Ukrainian end game?*
> 
> I don't think this war would be decided on the field, I still think this war is going to be decided with the peace talk, the position on the ground will dictate the progress peace talk. I don't think Russia can take anything more than Donbas, I do think the southern corridor is in jeapody from Ukrainian counter attack.
> 
> So I would suggest the next Ukrainian counter attack would see who have the bigger carrot in the peace talk. If Russian failed to resist the counter attack, then donbas would not have a favourable outcome. On the other hand, if Ukrainian are not able to dislodge the Russian, then outlook of the Ukrainian defence in Donbas will be grim. They will then be more willing to deal, other than keep fighting.
> 
> @Wood @RescueRanger @SQ8 @Paul2 @mmr @LeGenD



No one who "studied warfare" will make them claims at start of war for a quick victory at Maripul. Especially thousands of mechanised infantry, Marines and Azov spent years planning to defend it.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

Ukrainian MiG-29 Pilot's Front-Line Account Of The Air War Against Russia


A MiG-29 pilot talks tactics and tribulations in the desperate fight to keep Ukraine’s skies free from Russian domination.




www.thedrive.com





Interview of a Ukranian pilot who fought as an infantry man during the attack on Hostomel. 



> The Ukrainian Air Force learned yet more valuable lessons during exercises with the U.S. Air Force, particularly the Clear Sky series of drills, the biggest of which in 2018 was the first-ever joint multinational exercise hosted by Ukraine. Here, the regular sparring partners for the Ukrainian were the F-15Cs of the California Air National Guard’s 144th Fighter Wing, while the Polish Air Force participated too.



More details about this exercise in the Interview


----------



## jamal18

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510985425455915012


It has often been said that the West wants Russia divided into several states, like Libya or the fractured Iraq. Especially an independent Siberia. This will make the plundering of Russian resources much easier.

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## kingQamaR

jamal18 said:


> It has often been said that the West wants Russia divided into several states, like Libya or the fractured Iraq. Especially an independent Siberia. This will make the plundering of Russian resources much easier.



The world need to have a hard look at itself ... any country involved in a war commits atrocities ... where was the outrage for My-Lai, for Iraq, for Syria or Yemen ? We have to look at all wars with the same critical eye, this is disgusting and vile. Giant nations like Russia, USA and China are always meddling in the background. ENOUGH


----------



## PakFactor

kingQamaR said:


> The world need to have a hard look at itself ... any country involved in a war commits atrocities ... where was the outrage for My-Lai, for Iraq, for Syria or Yemen ? We have to look at all wars with the same critical eye, this is disgusting and vile. Giant nations like Russia, USA and China are always meddling in the background. ENOUGH



Bhai the narrative is always controlled by the few and they make the rules.

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## Wergeland

gambit said:


> My comments about the VKS are here...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> Map according to southfront (russians)
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If my suspicion is true that the VKS essentially used the old Soviet concept of airpower and employment of the same in Ukraine, then the VKS cannot achieve air superiority over a country as large as Ukraine, and that it is only the smaller size of the Ukrainian Air Force that the VKS have that _de facto_ control of Ukrainian airspace.
> 
> 
> 
> https://media.defense.gov/2017/Dec/27/2001861508/-1/-1/0/T_0029_FADOK_BOYD_AND_WARDEN.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> Boyd and Warden represent a major transition in the evolution of air power theory. Early air power theorists argued that one could defeat the enemy by paralyzing his war-making and war-sustaining capabilities—a form of economic warfare based upon industrial targeting. In contrast, Boyd and Warden contend that one should target enemy command and control—that is, control warfare based upon command targeting.​​Boyd and Warden represent a shift from this economic warfare to what some term control warfare. *Boyd’s version of control warfare is more process-oriented in terms of operating inside enemy OODA loops. On the other hand, Warden’s version is more form-oriented in terms of parallel, inside-out attack against the enemy’s Five Rings. That said, both espouse control warfare based upon command targeting.*​
> We can see the progression of early airpower up to where John Boyd and John Warden advocated. Back in WW II, the US Army Air Corps bombed Germany's war-making and war-sustaining capabilities such as the Ploesti oil refineries and the Schweinfurt ball bearing factories. In Desert Storm, we attacked Iraq's command and control and associated information gathering capabilities such as early warning radars. Radars are intelligence.
> 
> Under the Soviet concept and employment of airpower as 'airborne artillery', ground commanders dictate the direction and intensity of *LOCAL* airpower, and by 'local', it mean targeting enemy forces 24-48 hrs ahead. Oil refineries and ball bearing factories are weeks ahead, meaning it takes weeks to turn oil into fuel and ball bearings to install into vehicles. But if you target enemy forces that are 24-28 hrs ahead, you will be shooting at enemy ground forces that are either on the way to you or entrenched waiting for you. In this, airpower is limited to local combat, not regional or national economic and/or command and control capabilities. We never met during the Cold War and now in Ukraine we finally found out that seemingly the current VKS have not made any philosophical and conceptual progress since WW II. If you look at Figure 3 on page 25 of the above doc, the VKS pretty stopped at ring 3 'infrastructure' but concentrated at rings 4 (population) and 5 (fielded forces). The employment of the VKS in Ukraine correlates too much to the old Soviet 'airborne artillery' concept of airpower.
> 
> There is a parallel cause on why the VKS performed so poorly over Ukraine: economics. Poutine may have given the Russian military some budgetary boost from improved economy overall, but it was not enough. In Desert Storm, we hit all of the Warden Five Rings in one day. We did it because we could. The US had enough air assets to do it alone but we ended up with allies to help. The VKS did not because it could not. So the VKS had no choice but subordinate itself to ground commanders. In the end, since the VKS could not perform like Desert Storm, might as well do the most good by working for the Russian Army. Many will not like this but US/NATO air forces would have erased the VKS from the air.
> 
> For the long term, it now falls to China, specifically Chinese concept of airpower, to lead the non-West aligned air forces. Would the PLAAF adopt the Boyd-Warden ways of airpower? Maybe, but that would require a re-conceptualization of the entire PLA itself to be an expeditionary military like how the US military is. How expeditionary? Again, back to Desert Storm. Historically, expeditionary armies lived off the land. They took food and make their arms from local sources. But with DS, the US shipped everything we need from one hemisphere to the other. This is how much the PLA must change. Could is one thing, but 'can do' is another. Can the PLA become as expeditionary? China shares borders with 11 countries and not all of them friendlies. That mean a good portion of the PLA must be constantly on the alert on the home front whereas the US do not worry about Canada and Mexico.



Very interesting
Thanks for taking time to write this long and informative post.

No doubt the Russian Airforce is not as competitive vis a vis NATO as it was during Soviet days when Research and Design Bureaus were given plenty of funding. In fact there is not a single aircraft in VKS that has been designed completely after the fall of CCCP. Su-27 series are all based on projects that began in the 80’s.

Russia has designed new aircrafts like Su-57 and the Checkmate recently but never been mass produced.

A big big reason is of course funding. Russia was on the brink of collapse when Putin took over. It is only the last 10 years its economy has been somewhat stable, mostly driven by good oil and gas prices.

I am not gonna try to pretend i am a aviation expert, because i am not. But to me it seems VKS and the Armed forces in general, lack the integration that US Army has had. Where every machine talks to eachother and therefore have superior situational awareness. Russia seems to lack the strong electronics, digital and AI element that characterize US.

OTOH if what you suggest, is correct, Its mysterious why Russian Army leadership has not tried to learn from USA. Laziness? Lack of money or simply the tech is not there?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511120586000547846

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511032864422477831


----------



## jamal18

kingQamaR said:


> The world need to have a hard look at itself ... any country involved in a war commits atrocities ... where was the outrage for My-Lai, for Iraq, for Syria or Yemen ? We have to look at all wars with the same critical eye, this is disgusting and vile. Giant nations like Russia, USA and China are always meddling in the background. ENOUGH


It always amazes me that the guardians of global virtue seem to have a blind spot to their own , infinitely greater crimes.


----------



## kingQamaR

PakFactor said:


> Bhai the narrative is always controlled by the few and they make the rules.



Exactly brother . How can people on here be so brainwashed that they let this happen.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511118546977316867

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511047273517666314


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510986128681320450


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## kingQamaR

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511118546977316867
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511047273517666314



"Kyiv reclaims more towns" - empty town the Russians have withdrawn from. 

Russia has probably lost. Putin has lost. Everything they do now is futile to what he was trying to achieve. Either he accepts that and withdraws or he is removed from within. That is when it ends. Hopefully sooner rather than later for the good of everyone.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511034676412100615


kingQamaR said:


> "Kyiv reclaims more towns" - empty town the Russians have withdrawn from.
> 
> Russia has probably lost. Putin has lost. Everything they do now is futile to what he was trying to achieve. Either he accepts that and withdraws or he is removed from within. That is when it ends. Hopefully sooner rather than later for the good of everyone.



That is a wishful thinking...Russians are securing the Russian-speaking Eastern Ukraine.


----------



## LeGenD

Wergeland said:


> Many good points but…
> Is there anything that suggest Russia really tried to take full control of Ukraine airspace? I mean like going all inn and taking out every Ukrainian air wing and SAM systems.
> 
> There is something really fishy about Russian intentions and actions in this war. To me it looks like Russia simply is afraid to go in with full force. I think the main goal maybe actually to teach Ukraine (and others) a lesson. Demilitarize and make it less anti-Russian.
> 
> edit: Although Russia has not enforced a de jure NO Fly Zone still Ukraine airspace is more or less de facto in Russian control. Also Russia might have drawn its conclusions from full blown US invasions in Afg and Iraq, that a full scale take over is very risky.



Russian forces attempted to achieve Air Superiority over Ukraine.









Ukrainian MiG-29 Pilot's Front-Line Account Of The Air War Against Russia


A MiG-29 pilot talks tactics and tribulations in the desperate fight to keep Ukraine’s skies free from Russian domination.




www.thedrive.com







kingQamaR said:


> "Kyiv reclaims more towns" - empty town the Russians have withdrawn from.
> 
> Russia has probably lost. Putin has lost. Everything they do now is futile to what he was trying to achieve. Either he accepts that and withdraws or he is removed from within. That is when it ends. Hopefully sooner rather than later for the good of everyone.



Ukranian forces defeated Russian forces in the North:

_"Zelensky's trip to these areas is highly symbolic for a number of reasons, not least of which is that Russian forces have been driven back so thoroughly that it is considered safe enough for him to travel there personally. Russian units have been withdrawing from locations around Kyiv, as well as elsewhere in northeastern Ukraine, for more than a week now in the face of Ukrainian counterattacks, continuing logistics problems, and other issues. Zelensky's visits reinforce the 'lead from the front' image he has cultivated since Russia's invasion kicked off in February, which has helped boost morale domestically and galvanize support internationally."_









Ukraine Situation Report: Zelensky Describes "War Crimes" And "Genocide" In Visit To Kyiv Suburbs


President Zelensky made a very symbolic trip to liberated areas as evidence of Russian atrocities continues to mount.




www.thedrive.com





Focus is shifting to the East now.

My assessment:

Post in thread 'Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/post-13677319

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## kingQamaR

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511034676412100615
> 
> 
> That is a wishful thinking...Russians are securing the Russian-speaking Eastern Ukraine.



Looks like Russia went out to destroy no matter what, rather than 'liberate a country' as they put it. Russian Ukrainian speakers ? you think they wanted this total carnage of there Ukrainian state! 

russia have played a bad game here they are doomed its just a matter of time, his conscript army has done more harm to Russia that nato ever could do.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511120323562950663

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511127561153228800


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511139620779663376


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510936431115571206

We’ve seen what US weapons and Intel have done to the Russian Army, and US military hasn’t even entered the conflict. 

The US would skull drag Putin and Russia.

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## gambit

Wergeland said:


> OTOH if what you suggest, is correct, Its mysterious why Russian Army leadership has not tried to learn from USA. Laziness? *Lack of money* or simply the tech is not there?


That...

Like it or not, money = freedom. The Soviet Union had great aerodynamicists and no doubt they directly and indirectly taught US a few things about aviation. But their best remains in the labs and people like me who can be easily deployed at any time needs functional hardware, not proofs of concepts devices.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Eight stars are marked on the Pantsir air defense missile system, which controls the sky over the positions of our military - these are seven downed enemy aircraft and one helicopter.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510957859642695684


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## kingQamaR

Italy has just announced it will not have any more oil or gas today from Russia, after seeing these atrocities on their tv channels

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## zartosht

Mariupol city centre is under Russian control..





264 Ukie marines/officers from the 501st marine battalion have surrendered en masse to Russian forces in mariupol.... the end is near.









Note the difference in propaganda... This single surrender is worth 100~ twitter videos of dead/captured russian soldiers that are getting spammed by the msm, and some posters here.

the difference between how a professional army operates. Methodically taking territory/prisoners.

and the terrorist nato army, who not only use civilians as human shields, commit atrocities and blame them on Russians, and put not only real , but fake military equipment in residential areas to draw russian fire. *NATO's behaviour is almost as disgusting as their propaganda.*


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511077172437528582

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510972157974749191
Now Putin will dare to invade Finland?

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## Wergeland

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510179147561279491


zartosht said:


> Mariupol city centre is under Russian control..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 264 Ukie marines/officers from the 501st marine battalion have surrendered en masse to Russian forces in mariupol.... the end is near.
> 
> View attachment 830679
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note the difference in propaganda... This single surrender is worth 100~ twitter videos of dead/captured russian soldiers that are getting spammed by the msm, and some posters here.
> 
> the difference between how a professional army operates. Methodically taking territory/prisoners.
> 
> and the terrorist nato army, who not only use civilians as human shields, commit atrocities and blame them on Russians, and put not only real , but fake military equipment in residential areas to draw russian fire. *NATO's behaviour is almost as disgusting as their propaganda.*
> View attachment 830678



These Azov nutheads must have been high on stimulants while fighting and razing in Mariupol. I dont neccesary think rest of Ukraine Army are all nazis, but from what i see there is really no way around saying it; these guys were hardcore nazis, not like thise edgy kids that sometimes say they are nazi but like REAL nazis. I am glad any time Nazis loose a battle. Maybe Biden can ask Zelensky why he as a jew allows neo-nazis infiltrate his armed forced to such an extent.

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## Song Hong

Here we go again. West accuse Russia of genocide.









Video: Zelenksy Accuses Russia of ‘Genocide’ in Bucha Killings


President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine said that peace talks with Russia would be difficult after the discovery of corpses of civilians in Bucha.




www.nytimes.com


----------



## Song Hong

Aljzeera parroting Russian geoncide.










Al Jazeera English - Ukraine says it has regained control of Kyiv region | Facebook | By Al Jazeera English | Ukrainian forces claim to have regained control of the Kyiv region after Russian forces retreated from key towns. Disturbing videos have eme


826K views, 8K likes, 194 loves, 2.7K comments, 2.6K shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Al Jazeera English: Ukrainian forces claim to have regained control of the Kyiv region after Russian forces...




fb.watch


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511163764162371584

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511133157260767242
Primary source for misinformation in this thread

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511048224907354114

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2 | Wow Wow:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511116124812763137

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511115692841463811

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511113838577418241

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511104051735277569

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511103535747764225

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510907716230733826


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511018387996090375

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511019012813164546

All of these Russian Nazis personal info

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## jhungary

Type59 said:


> No one who "studied warfare" will make them claims at start of war for a quick victory at Maripul. Especially thousands of mechanised infantry, Marines and Azov spent years planning to defend it.


It would be a quick victory. The proximity of enemy territories, the simplicity of logistic and the access to air and sea support. That was the easier of the 5 cities. While it is true it was defended by 3 brigade (appoximately 15000 men) but Russia themselves have 30,000-50,000 in theatre and DNR and LNR together have another 30,000, the Russia outnumber the Ukrainian defender at least 5-7 : 1 

If you don't expect Mariupol to fall easily, then the rest of the country is going to be in a lot tougher fight than this (Odesa being at the furthest end, which take in a lot of logistic issue) Kyiv is super big in size, (they are 5 to 6 times of Mariupol) Dnipro is protected by the Dnieper on 3 sides.

So yes, this is expected as a quick victories. You can go around and ask any people who had some kind of Military Science Background and they will all tell you the same thing.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510859512416141313

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510851939054981124

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510770607859724288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510555732793442305

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510365909080182789


----------



## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Hopefully they keep sending in more of them, we don't know how long this war will actually be, probably not even end by May 9. So need to open more production facilities. The longer the war is, the more suffering for everybody around the world. Even a Great Depression.
> 
> 
> LOL, they resort to the movement of the arm of one of the dead as fake for a raindrop on the windshield. Same for another body that was moving even though it was the mirror movement. Can't fake them anyways considering the foreign journalists and photographers were there and took pictures of those same dead bodies.


There are virtually NO CHANCE this war is going to end in May 9. The Ukrainian Position in Donbas is very well dug in (they have 8 years to do so) and so far they still have not "close the ring" which mean you have soldier and supply flow in everyday. 

I mean, the Russian and separatist spend more than 8 years on this, and even with superior number in men and resource, they still aren't able to take Mariupol for 6 weeks, there are virtually zero chance they can take the entire Donbas in the next 4 weeks. Unless there are some serious blunder happening with the Ukrainian and some Military genius took control of the Russian force....

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## The SC

Urgent | Deputy Chairman of the Russian National Security Council: The countries that expelled our diplomats know that our response will destroy bilateral relations

Urgent | Medvedev: The continued expulsion of diplomats means the closure of Western embassies so that we can look at each other through the lens of weapons

@AJABreaking


----------



## tower9

dBSPL said:


> Here, some of our friends were talking about the Chinese media being very different from the US media. However, the media of both parties are basically the same. Both manipulate their people.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510830530333331460
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510830547802603523
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510857051806658562
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510928644062932996
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510946258181009416


So basically the same as America’s zionist media not reporting on Israeli massacres of Palestinian children.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511175099700850693

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511096789264338947

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510928315825020928

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511173296066281475

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511173297228161025

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511173882065129479

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Definitely need to start taking Kherson soon before the big event with those tanks and other armor vehicles being delivered by the west, also need to be helping and reinforcing Kharkiv as well as hitting or flanking Russian forces trying to encircle next to Kharkiv at the same time because the Russians want to deal with that city, either encircle it completely or try to take it, because they don't want that city behind their backs while trying to encircle tens of thousands of Ukrainian troops in Donbas region. Odessa should be fine with anti ship missiles and no supply line provided by the Russians and got pushed back at the city of Mykolaiv. Still need to take Melitopol as well.


Well, there are this dilemma tho, you don't have many build up village, satellite town in the east they they did in the West and North, it's farmland and plain where all the Wheat grew. The problem is, we know for a fact that the Russia is going to at least try to squeeze the Ukrainian in Donbas from both Izyum and Mariupol, the Ukrainian can't really do what they did in Kyiv or Chernihiv to stop them, to stop this Russian advance, you will need mobility and firepower, which mean tanks and artillery and CAS. 

That mean how do Ukrainian use their newly formed armor brigade will be a hard decision, they can use it to counter attack the South, and or they can use it to defend the East. I have no idea how much Armor Power is left with the Ukrainian because report vary from 10-50% (I think probably only the Ukrainian know how much that left) and if they don't have enough to fend off the Eastern Attack, the new Armor Brigade (The tank from Germany and Poland) If they still get it, it will be used to help defend the East.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511073644537163781


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> the new Armor Brigade (The tank from Germany and Poland) If they still get it, it will be used to help defend the East.



1970s T-72 are basically deadmeat for Kornet and Metis M1








jhungary said:


> It would be a quick victory. The proximity of enemy territories, the simplicity of logistic and the access to air and sea support. That was the easier of the 5 cities. While it is true it was defended by 3 brigade (appoximately 15000 men) but Russia themselves have 30,000-50,000 in theatre and DNR and LNR together have another 30,000, the Russia outnumber the Ukrainian defender at least 5-7 : 1
> 
> If you don't expect Mariupol to fall easily, then the rest of the country is going to be in a lot tougher fight than this (Odesa being at the furthest end, which take in a lot of logistic issue) Kyiv is super big in size, (they are 5 to 6 times of Mariupol) Dnipro is protected by the Dnieper on 3 sides.
> 
> So yes, this is expected as a quick victories. You can go around and ask any people who had some kind of Military Science Background and they will all tell you the same thing.



Yes. I believe this war will last many decades.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511143647143768067

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511131163313811459


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511168536101670915

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510986128681320450


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511083790512406533


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## jhungary

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510972157974749191
> Now Putin will dare to invade Finland?


Well, Putin did zilch on Georgia who actually have applied and being considered for NATO membership. If he go attack Finland and Sweden now, they will make mince meat out of Russian.......

And I am pretty sure after they are done with the Russian invader, they will turn around and go help Ukraine.

This is just empty talk, especially after how the world see they blundered the entire Ukrainian war.....

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510906028589821953


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510882269501681670

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Well, Putin did zilch on Georgia who actually have applied and being considered for NATO membership. If he go attack Finland and Sweden now, they will make mince meat out of Russian.......
> 
> And I am pretty sure after they are done with the Russian invader, they will turn around and go help Ukraine.
> 
> This is just empty talk, especially after how the world see they blundered the entire Ukrainian war.....



China and Russia can form a mutual security alliance like NATO.


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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511107170724634625
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496594192793063438



What a " trust worthy " person

Prior to the invasion Illia Kiva had fled for Spain.

Illia Kiva was deprived him of his mandate, following comments in support of Russia during the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine.

On the day of Russian invasion he expressed support for the invasion, claiming "the Ukrainian people need liberation"










Illia Kyva - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511168536101670915
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510986128681320450



Send the gas to China. Chinese people will never have to live in the cold ever again.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511038658207485952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510878051772555266


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> I was expecting something more Russian design. I mean Russians are known for making artillery and missiles and rockets as their primary usage in their wars. Can't be HIMARS since the U.S. has it and the only other country in Europe I checked in is Romania. Don't know if they are giving those up. In any case, hope they send them in soon as well as provide more serious SAMs systems to help provide air cover. I just read on the twitter that the Russians have transferred dozens of helos as well as dozens of ground attack aircraft the SU-25s from Bulgaria for the offensive soon. Probably more from Russia itself. Putin is putting all his chips on this to get a victory of some kind and get it by May 9 with territorial concessions from Ukraine which is to me IMO unacceptable. It will hurt Ukraine's security and economically in the future when Russia invades again where Ukraine is more exposed. Also need to remind them that they need those Switchblade 600 in massive quantities as well. Need to jumpstart that production quicker.


The rapidness of recapturing North of Kyiv (almost all back to Ukrainian hand) suggested 2 to 3 times the size of the force defending Kyiv is conducting an operation there. Which mean once that is done, you free up probably 50% of those surge to be deploy elsewhere. 

This is increasingly looking like Yom Kippur, many people I know has started comparing Ukrainian defence now to Israeli defences during Yom Kippur, if that is of any reference, we will see Ukraine start their own counter offensive soon, for now, they have done everything right, not sure how they would perform in a counter attack, but a competent force work with extensive NATO intelligence, I think the result would be hopeful.

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## Menthol

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511060668610457612
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511105626809810945



Lol, NYTimes.

I stopped reading those garbage.

I take it for granted.


But the civilian causality of the war is real.

As real as those in Libya, Iraq, and Syria.

If both USA, NATO, and Russia claim to be untrue, it's fake.

But anyway, in this case, a thief is yelling "thief...!" to others.

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## jhungary

Tai Hai Chen said:


> China and Russia can form a mutual security alliance like NATO.


Seriously, don't ever quote me again.


----------



## Wood

jhungary said:


> Well, Putin did zilch on Georgia who actually have applied and being considered for NATO membership. If he go attack Finland and Sweden now, they will make mince meat out of Russian.......
> 
> And I am pretty sure after they are done with the Russian invader, they will turn around and go help Ukraine.
> 
> This is just empty talk, especially after how the world see they blundered the entire Ukrainian war.....


I think if Putin had succeeded in Ukraine within a short period like he had expected to, then Georgia would have been in line. But after this debacle, there should be no more delusions for Putin. Still surprised to see that he has the gall to warn independent Scandinavian countries. Only option for him is to use ballistic missiles and nukes


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511079584153980937

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511072153017499661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510985249076961285

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511054091836968970

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510839898844057600

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510837682049585154


----------



## Menthol

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511107170724634625
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496594192793063438



The casualty of war is real.

Bucha or not, it exists.

But by purposely reporting on Bucha, it's more like a media stunt and propaganda.

USA and NATO are as dirty as Russia, even more.

Should I blame Russia as I blame NATO?

Should Russia be punished as NATO as well?

if not, then all USA and EU statements are garbage.


----------



## The SC




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511131033902755844

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Wood said:


> I think if Putin had succeeded in Ukraine within a short period like he had expected to, then Georgia would have been in line. But after this debacle, there should be no more delusions for Putin. Still surprised to see that he has the gall to warn independent Scandinavian countries. Only option for him is to use ballistic missiles and nukes


The only reasonable expectation for Russian to start a war with Finland and Sweden is that a war prevent them from joining NATO (It actually depends if NATO willing to accept and fight for Sweden and Finland, but that is beside the point)

The problem is, this operation in Ukraine is not a small operation, 200,000 invading troop is no small feat, that beg the question whether or not Russia is able to conduct military operation this scare alone? The answer is more and more pointing toward Russia is incapable to do so. So even if they can't join NATO, I would say Finland and Sweden is more than a match to fight off Russian, now, will they want their city destroy in order to do so is another issue. That's why I can see both country is going to actively seek NATO membership.

Think about it like this, you don't need 200,000 troop if you were to secure the entire Donbas like what Putin is claiming now, that mean this is an oversight. That mean the operation Putin envision is not the one he have in reality, So you sort o shift the goal post for it.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510812901073899523

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510730943824375815


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511131033902755844



1970s T-72 are easy targets for Kornet and Metis M1. 1970s T-72 were slaughtered in Syria by TOW.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511092961316122624


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511148955954184193

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511095816068472836


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511058669722550273


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511184003461795848

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511184005328257024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511184359843319813

Reactions: Like Like:
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## kingQamaR

Tai Hai Chen said:


> China and Russia can form a mutual security alliance like NATO.



Russia supplies Indian deadly armament to help contain your country China or war 

so how will this union of yours going to work them? And why would you help Moscow who rewards your enemy india

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511157926337167365

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## Primus

kingQamaR said:


> Russia supplies Indian armament to help contain you china , so how will this union of yours going to works?


Well to be fair, Russia both supplied China and India with weaponry and what not. Its just that China chose a more self reliance approach to things rather than India. 

At the end of the day, its Russia thats making the money. Russia couldnt care less if either country goes to war with each other.


----------



## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Well, there are this dilemma tho, you don't have many build up village, satellite town in the east they they did in the West and North, it's farmland and plain where all the Wheat grew. The problem is, we know for a fact that the Russia is going to at least try to squeeze the Ukrainian in Donbas from both Izyum and Mariupol, the Ukrainian can't really do what they did in Kyiv or Chernihiv to stop them, to stop this Russian advance, you will need mobility and firepower, which mean tanks and artillery and CAS.
> 
> That mean how do Ukrainian use their newly formed armor brigade will be a hard decision, they can use it to counter attack the South, and or they can use it to defend the East. I have no idea how much Armor Power is left with the Ukrainian because report vary from 10-50% (I think probably only the Ukrainian know how much that left) and if they don't have enough to fend off the Eastern Attack, the new Armor Brigade (The tank from Germany and Poland) If they still get it, it will be used to help defend the East.


Hmm...by any chance the Ukrainians are being equipped with Humvees armed with TOWs? That could compensate for lack of armor mechanized units as a whole when you have thousands of them. Also the European countries could provide more armored trucks or SUV types or even MRAP types to help transport thousands of troops while equipped with anti tank missiles as well as MANPADs. With drones to help scout ahead and take out the tanks from long distance. Hopefully the British artillery vehicles will help along with more Russian made ones in terms of rockets and arty.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511076785433329669


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511081236277731328

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> The rapidness of recapturing North of Kyiv (almost all back to Ukrainian hand) suggested 2 to 3 times the size of the force defending Kyiv is conducting an operation there. Which mean once that is done, you free up probably 50% of those surge to be deploy elsewhere.
> 
> This is increasingly looking like Yom Kippur, many people I know has started comparing Ukrainian defence now to Israeli defences during Yom Kippur, if that is of any reference, we will see Ukraine start their own counter offensive soon, for now, they have done everything right, not sure how they would perform in a counter attack, but a competent force work with extensive NATO intelligence, I think the result would be hopeful.


The Ukrainians are very formidable force with what they have done so far, obviously with Russian incompetence in barely more than a month long war. You can easily bet the Ukrainians will be even more formidable as they rebuild and improve their military forces besides just technology.

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511157926337167365


Ukraine and Europe at large should say thanks to these rotten people who stole from Putin from under his nose


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

In the face of all these allegations, Russia has submitted a resolution for an independent investigation in the UNSC but was strangely rejected or blocked by the Chair now headed by UK.

I wonder why?


----------



## Oldman1

Wood said:


> Ukraine and Europe at large should say thanks to these rotten people who stole from Putin from under his nose







__





After his $71M yacht was seized by the Italian govt – Sanctioned oligarch Alexei Mordashov’s $500 million megayacht ‘Nord’ is now sailing back home to Russia in full speed and its location transponders may be turned off to avoid capture. - Opera News


The Nord looks like a warship donning tuxedo. Via - Lurrsen. It isn’t easy to keep a 464 feet long megayacht costing $500 million out of sight. After losing his superyacht




www.dailyadvent.com





After his $71M yacht was seized by the Italian govt – Sanctioned oligarch Alexei Mordashov’s $500 million megayacht ‘Nord’ is now sailing back home to Russia in full speed and its location transponders may be turned off to avoid capture.​

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## sammuel

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511018387996090375
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511019012813164546
> 
> All of these Russian Nazis personal info



Unbelievable

Usually it is soldiers that get parcels from home , not the other way around.

Look at the size of some pf parcel they are sending. Sure does not look like letters to the family sent home . . .

Someone bothered to watch the whole clip and make a list of some of the stuff they sent :

*11:02S alcohol*
*11:27 video card*
*36:25 electric scooter*
*58:22 Air conditioners (4 sets of split systems AKAI AK-AC9010-OF - 8 boxes)*
*2:40:03 car batteries*
*3:11:10 baul from the Ukrainian shopping center "Epicenter" *








~


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

__





Loading…






www.cgtn.com


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511049399727800323


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Russia has denied that its forces killed civilians in Bucha, and Moscow has requested that the UN Security Council convene to discuss what it called a "provocation by Ukrainian radicals" in Bucha.


----------



## Oldman1



Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511142571342499849

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Hmm...by any chance the Ukrainians are being equipped with Humvees armed with TOWs? That could compensate for lack of armor mechanized units as a whole when you have thousands of them. Also the European countries could provide more armored trucks or SUV types or even MRAP types to help transport thousands of troops while equipped with anti tank missiles as well as MANPADs. With drones to help scout ahead and take out the tanks from long distance. Hopefully the British artillery vehicles will help along with more Russian made ones in terms of rockets and arty.


Well, not sure if Humvee with TOW are going to cut it. You will need heavy, because this is going to be armor warfare, you probably can pop one or two shot and then going to be destroyed by Russian tank. You cannot replace armor with Light Skin Vehicle....

If Russia know what they are doing (And I suspected that they had learnt their lesson,) they would be able to crush light AT infantry without defensive position. The War being fought in the East is going to be more conventional and less asymmetrical


----------



## sammuel

~

More looting clips :

Russian Soldier Tries To Loot Ukrainian Tech Store • Fails At The Door​








Intercepted call from Russian soldier in Ukraine to his wife - "They live so well here" - English subtitles​
( press cc for translation )

Minute 1:05 " they are taking huge bags of everything "







~


----------



## Oldman1

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511142571342499849





https://ria.ru/20220403/ukraina-1781469605.html



Official English version, you can just translate it. 

I wonder if Putin was influenced by this guy or vice versa and for the Russian populace. Official Russian news. Long reading but worth knowing what Putin's intentions are.
What should Russia do with Ukraine?​
Ukraine is in just such a situation. The fact that the Ukrainian voter voted for the "peace of Poroshenko" and "peace of Zelensky" should not be misleading - the Ukrainians were quite satisfied with the shortest path to peace through the blitzkrieg, which the last two Ukrainian presidents transparently hinted at when they were elected. It was this method of "appeasement" of internal anti-fascists - through total terror - that was used in Odessa , Kharkov , Dnepropetrovsk , Mariupol , and other Russian cities. And this quite suited the Ukrainian man in the street. Denazification is a set of measures in relation to the nazified mass of the population, which technically cannot be subjected to direct punishment as war criminals.

See something similar to what Putin said in his speech at the start of the invasion?

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## CAPRICORN-88

*Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov hits out at the UNITED KINGDOM for REFUSING to convene the UNSC. 

Russia hasd called for an urgent meeting but UK which is currently the chairs it refused to convent.*

Bloomberg 
April 04, 2022


----------



## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511184003461795848
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511184005328257024
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511184359843319813


Not bad. Initially 100 they said, now 600 delivered. This kamikaze drone will have huge psychological effect on enemy soldiers: the death can come from everywhere.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Well, not sure if Humvee with TOW are going to cut it. You will need heavy, because this is going to be armor warfare, you probably can pop one or two shot and then going to be destroyed by Russian tank. You cannot replace armor with Light Skin Vehicle....
> 
> If Russia know what they are doing (And I suspected that they had learnt their lesson,) they would be able to crush light AT infantry without defensive position. The War being fought in the East is going to be more conventional and less asymmetrical


Well it can be hit and run, there are many towns and villages and forests and woods and they can fire a missile or two and get out quick or coordinate with other TOW armed vehicles and hit multiple tanks or other armored vehicles simultaneously, I mean this can by very powerful psychological weapon and having an impact on Russian tank or other armor crews seeing their colleagues getting blown, even retreat or stall them. I think the Ukrainians need camouflage nets as well to help reduce getting detected by visual means and help ambush tank columns while hidden.


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> The Ukrainians are very formidable force with what they have done so far, obviously with Russian incompetence in barely more than a month long war. You can easily bet the Ukrainians will be even more formidable as they rebuild and improve their military forces besides just technology.


Well, it remind to be seen, but I can say it is hopeful.

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## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov hits out at the UNITED KINGDOM for REFUSING to convene the UNSC.
> 
> Russia hasd called for an urgent meeting but UK which is currently the chairs it refused to convent.*
> 
> Bloomberg
> April 04, 2022


Refused probably people see Lavrov is a liar. For months he denied invasion despite being questioned many times. his reputation is in the trash bin.

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## Oldman1

Viet said:


> Refused probably people see Lavrov is a liar. For months he denied invasion despite being questioned many times. his reputation is in the trash bin.











Russia repeats claim it didn't attack Ukraine, saying it was forced to defend to pro-Kremlin regions


Russia has repeatedly claimed it did not launch an attack on Ukraine, instead referring to it as a "special military operation."




www.businessinsider.com





Russia repeats claim it didn't attack Ukraine, saying it was forced to defend to pro-Kremlin regions​

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511158645769314304
The US successfully tested a hypersonic cruise missile over 300 miles above Mach 5 several weeks ago.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Not bad. Initially 100 they said, now 600 delivered. This kamikaze drone will have huge psychological effect on enemy soldiers: the death can come from everywhere.


100 were delivered, they are called "Switchblade 600"

I am pretty sure more will be deliver tho.


----------



## kingQamaR

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Russia has denied that its forces killed civilians in Bucha, and Moscow has requested that the UN Security Council convene to discuss what it called a "provocation by Ukrainian radicals" in Bucha.



No one believes anything the Russians say anymore and to be honest their excuses and version of events would be laughable if it wasn't for the war crimes they have committed,

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Oldman1 said:


> Russia repeats claim it didn't attack Ukraine, saying it was forced to defend to pro-Kremlin regions
> 
> 
> Russia has repeatedly claimed it did not launch an attack on Ukraine, instead referring to it as a "special military operation."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.businessinsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia repeats claim it didn't attack Ukraine, saying it was forced to defend to pro-Kremlin regions​


By this logic the PLA can attack Kuala Lumpur because there is a Chinatown. I am pretty sure the chinese there want to belong to China. I was there.

Brain dead Russian logic

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## BHAN85

__





New York Times Story on Intercepted Russian Forces Radio Communications


The New York Times have recently run an incredible video story about how Russian radio communications are being intercepted and recorded by ham radio operators and open source radio monitoring hobbyists in Ukraine. Some of the communications reveal the extent of the logistical issues experienced...



www.rtl-sdr.com










It's ridiculous how Russia risk soldiers lives because they dont provide them with a encrypt telecommunications that today price is almost free.


----------



## Oldman1

Viet said:


> By this logic the PLA can attack Kuala Lumpur because there is a Chinatown. I am pretty sure the chinese there want to belong to China. I was there.
> 
> Brain dead Russian logic


Yeah the Ukrainians were geniuses to attack pro-Russian at the same time the Russians amassed 200k troops who were in Belarus and Russian borders of Ukraine.



BHAN85 said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New York Times Story on Intercepted Russian Forces Radio Communications
> 
> 
> The New York Times have recently run an incredible video story about how Russian radio communications are being intercepted and recorded by ham radio operators and open source radio monitoring hobbyists in Ukraine. Some of the communications reveal the extent of the logistical issues experienced...
> 
> 
> 
> www.rtl-sdr.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's ridiculous how Russia risk soldiers lives because they dont provide them with a encrypt telecommunications that today price is almost free.


What was it that the Russian Commander responded when a Russian soldier complained about lack of body armor? Steel yourself son!


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

kingQamaR said:


> No one believes anything the Russians say anymore and to be honest their excuses and version of events would be laughable if it wasn't for the war crimes they have committed,


Please yourself if you choose to believe all these trash news. They can't be corroborated.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> 100 were delivered, they are called "Switchblade 600"
> 
> I am pretty sure more will be deliver tho.











Unmanned Aerial Loitering Systems for Various Missions


Check out our unmanned Systems: long-range flight capabilities, specialized for various missions, and can carry up to 30 kg warhead.




uvisionuav.com





Wish we had some of those Israeli ones. Scary stuff. Longest range is 250km. The U.S. military hopefully invests more into this.


----------



## Song Hong

Also NATO outlet using their old tricks saying Russian make sex slave out of Ukrainian.









Russian troops 'using rape as a weapon' as woman forced to have sex at gunpoint


WARNING: DISTRESSING CONTENT Human Rights Watch has uncovered details of attacks on civilians, including a woman who was raped at gunpoint by a Russian soldier as the UK's ambassador to Ukraine said it's "already clear" this is part of the Russian "arsenal"




www.mirror.co.uk

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511059810707550210

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511060092128567302

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511060208583381008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511060312853729280


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Song Hong said:


> Also NATO outlet using their old tricks saying Russian make sex slave out of Ukrainian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian troops 'using rape as a weapon' as woman forced to have sex at gunpoint
> 
> 
> WARNING: DISTRESSING CONTENT Human Rights Watch has uncovered details of attacks on civilians, including a woman who was raped at gunpoint by a Russian soldier as the UK's ambassador to Ukraine said it's "already clear" this is part of the Russian "arsenal"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mirror.co.uk



And in the meantime the chair from UK shamelessly refused to convene a meeting in UNSC requested by Russia which is calling for an independent investigation in Bucha supported by the the UN Secretary General.

Commonsense tells me, this is a part of a ongoing propaganda campaign and psyop by the 5 eye alliances against Russia. It is very dirty but soon a NWO initiated by China-India-Russia will soon emerged.

There are growing signs of unrests in the formation all over EU and UK due to the rising food and commodities price and very high inflation e.g. Italy, France, Spain, etc.
French President Macron popularity has dipped as a result.

Olaf Scholtz is in deep shit due to his blunder.

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## kingQamaR

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Please yourself if you choose to believe all these trash news. They can't be corroborated.



What do you think was responsible for these civilians killings in Ukraine while they were behind Russian lines , and for example, if you take a Pow captive under Geneva rules he’s a prisoner you take care of keep safe until handed over to authorities. so again I’m asking you Ukrainian civilians were under occupied Russian forces rule. So what happened to them ?

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## CAPRICORN-88

That is why I am generally ignoring all these tweets, allegations as IMO they are most fake and fabricated on purpose. 

Biden has a allocated a huge sum for such purpose for propaganda in his annual budget. 

And who is paying for this unproductive allocation. 

The US taxpayers of course. But once these rascals are in office, there is nothing much they can do except useless ranting - just wait till the next election and that will be years way. 

Democracy???

What is that

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## Oldman1

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510972157974749191
> Now Putin will dare to invade Finland?


If he's done with Ukraine yes he could dare do it after rebuilding his forces. What should Finland do?


----------



## That Guy

kingQamaR said:


> What do you think was responsible for these civilians killings in Ukraine while they were behind Russian lines , and for example, if you take a Pow captive under Geneva rules he’s a prisoner you take care of keep safe until handed over to authorities. so again I’m asking you Ukrainian civilians were under occupied Russian forces rule. So what happened to them ?


Why are you asking? You know he's either gonna say it's fake, or claim that the Ukrainians/NATO/USA did it.

You can't argue with dishonesty, because dishonesty very goal is spreading misinformation.



Oldman1 said:


> If he's done with Ukraine yes he could dare do it after rebuilding his forces. What should Finland do?


Join NATO. Considering Russia can barely handle Ukraine, attacking Finland (especially now of all times) is suicidal. Finland would rip Russia's forces apart.

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## KAL-EL

Oldman1 said:


> If he's done with Ukraine yes he could dare do it after rebuilding his forces. *What should Finland do?*



Arm itself to the teeth.

Don't wait, start now

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## CAPRICORN-88

kingQamaR said:


> What do you think was responsible for these civilians killings in Ukraine while they were behind Russian lines , and for example, if you take a Pow captive under Geneva rules he’s a prisoner you take care of keep safe until handed over to authorities. so again I’m asking you Ukrainian civilians were under occupied Russian forces rule. So what happened to them ?


Let an independent investigations be carried out. God only knows who did it?

But why are you in such a hurry to point your finger at the Russian and assign the blame to them? Taking side. 

Based on tales, track records in Dombass and other Eastern Provinces over the past 8 years and IMO these neo-nazi AZOV battalion are capable of commiting such atrocities. That will be my main suspects.

Why do you assumed the Russian soldiers are so stupid to leave such evidences behind?

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## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Stop all your nonsense and your low IQ comments.
> 
> It is a complete waste of my time educating trolls like you.
> 
> We all know why Khmer Krom like you from South Vietnam hate the North Vietnamese.


Nonsense
I am a neutral observer. I want to share with you my experiences.
The chinese in Kuala Lumpur speak chinese, they eat chinese, dress chinese clothes. I was there I thought I was in China.


----------



## khansaheeb

U.S. warns Russia will intensify its military operations in Ukraine after weeks of stalled ground fighting


The renewed ground offensive in eastern Ukraine will likely also "include air and missile strikes across the rest of the country," Jake Sullivan said.




www.cnbc.com





U.S. warns Russia will intensify its military operations in Ukraine after weeks of stalled ground fighting​PUBLISHED MON, APR 4 20226:08 PM EDTUPDATED 5 HOURS AGO





Amanda Macias@AMANDA_M_MACIAS
SHAREShare Article via FacebookShare Article via TwitterShare Article via LinkedInShare Article via Email
KEY POINTS

The Biden administration warned that Russian forces are expected to intensify their military operations in Ukraine after weeks of stalled ground advances.
National security advisor Jake Sullivan said Pentagon officials believed Russia was revising its goal for the war after failing to capture Kyiv.
For the past five weeks, Russian forces on the ground in Ukraine have been beset with a slew of logistical problems on the battlefield, including reports of fuel and food shortages.





Vladimir Putin’s forces have been defeated at Kyiv, but he’s not done with their invasion yet, U.S. officials said.
Mikhail Klimentyev | AFP | Getty Images
WASHINGTON — The Biden administration warned Monday that Russian forces are expected to intensify their military operations in Ukraine after weeks of stalled ground advances.
“When Russia started this war, its initial aims were to seize the capital of Kyiv, replace the Zelensky government and take control of much if not all of Ukraine,” national security advisor Jake Sullivan told reporters at the White House, adding “Russia believed that it could accomplish these objectives swiftly and efficiently.”

He said U.S. officials believed the Kremlin is now revising its goal in the war. “Russia is repositioning its forces to concentrate its offensive operations in eastern and parts of southern Ukraine, rather than target most of the territory,” Sullivan said, citing the military’s failure to capture Kyiv.
WATCH NOW
VIDEO03:20
We have to bring as much military capability to Ukraine as possible, says fmr. NATO ambassador

For the past five weeks, Russian forces on the ground in Ukraine have been beset with a slew of logistical problems on the battlefield, including reports of fuel and food shortages.
“All indications are that Russia will seek to surround and overwhelm Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine,” Sullivan said. “We anticipate that Russian commanders are now executing the redeployment from northern Ukraine to the region around the Donbas.”
He added that Russia’s renewed ground offensive in eastern Ukraine will likely also “include air and missile strikes across the rest of the country to cause military and economic damage, and frankly, to cause terror.”




FILE PHOTO: An aerial view shows a residential building destroyed by shelling, as Russia’s invasion of Ukraine continues, in the settlement of Borodyanka in the Kyiv region, Ukraine March 3, 2022. Picture taken with a drone. 
Maksim Levin | Reuters
A senior U.S. Defense Department official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to share details of the Pentagon’s thinking, said the Kremlin has moved about 65% of its forces near Kyiv to Belarus.

The official said the Pentagon believes those Russian troops are being resupplied with additional manpower in Belarus before deploying back to the fight in Ukraine. When asked where the troops would likely go, the official said the Pentagon believes the majority of them will move to the Donbas region.
The official added the U.S. believes the “vast majority” of Russian forces are still in Ukraine and that Kyiv is still under threat.
Later on Monday, Pentagon spokesman John Kirby didn’t offer specifics surrounding how the U.S. expects Russian forces will reorganize.
“We don’t believe that this is a complete withdrawal from the war effort. These guys are not going home, I guess is the main point,” Kirby said, adding that the Pentagon was “not able to perfectly predict exactly how they’re going to reform their units.”
When pressed, Sullivan didn’t provide a timeline of how long the U.S. expects the war will last.
“It may not be just a matter of a few more weeks,” Sullivan said. “This next phase could be measured in months or longer,” he added.


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## CAPRICORN-88

*Whether Russia or Ukraine is wining or losing is just days and weeks ahead.*

Why all the propaganda from US and Western News Media and blogs? 

No need to speculate. 

If Ukrainian are asking for more APC, armour vehicles and tanks from the West, to me either they are planning a major offensive to Moscow and winning 
or or 
they are sustaining heavy loses not reported in Western controlled MSM.

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## khansaheeb

KAL-EL said:


> Arm itself to the teeth.
> 
> Don't wait, start now


Give Uncle Sam a blank check else instead of fineland it will be badland.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

*Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov hits out at the UNITED KInGDOM for REFUSING to convene the UNSC. 

Russia hasd called for an urgent meeting but UK which is currently the chairs it refused to convent.*

Bloomberg
April 04, 2022

But why is UK refusing to convene a meeting in UNSC since they are so sure Russia commited warcrimes.

Sure beats me.

And now all the unrestricted anti-Russia propaganda in circulation.


----------



## khansaheeb

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *Whether Russia or Ukraine is wining or losing is just days and weeks ahead.*
> 
> Why all the propaganda from US and Western News Media and blogs?
> 
> No need to speculate.
> 
> If Ukrainian are asking for more APC, armour vehicles and tanks from the West, to me either they are planning a major offensive to Moscow and winning
> or or
> they are sustaining heavy loses not reported in Western controlled MSM.


Ukrainians must be winning as it seems they are switching from Guerilla warfare to conventional warfare hence need for Tanks and APCs.













Ukraine ‘retakes whole Kyiv region’ as Russia looks east


Bodies found scattered on the streets as Russian troops pull back from the capital to focus on southeastern Ukraine.




www.aljazeera.com

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## kingQamaR

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Let an independent investigations be carried out. God only knows who did it?
> 
> But why are you in such a hurry to point your finger at the Russian and assign the blame to them? Taking side.
> 
> Based on tales, track records in Dombass and other Eastern Provinces over the past 8 years and IMO these neo-nazi AZOV battalion are capable of commiting such atrocities. That will be my main suspects.
> 
> Why do you assumed the Russian soldiers are so stupid to leave such evidences behind?



So some people think the Ukrainians did this to their own people to make Russia look bad? Are you kidding? Russia said they wouldn't invade, they did. Russia said they would allow evacuation of Mariopol, they didn't ... lastly blaming the UN. Russia say they are not targeting civilians yet Mariopol shows 90% of buildings including apartment blocks have been hit. But you think Russia tells the truth?

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## khansaheeb

#UkraineFacts: a worldwide collaborative database to fight disinformation · Maldita.es - Periodismo para que no te la cuelen


Russia's attack on Ukraine is also an attack on facts and reality. Lies, half-truths, misinformation without evidence...…




maldita.es





#UkraineFacts: a worldwide collaborative database to fight disinformation​Publicadosábado, 26 febrero 2022
Comparte
https://www.facebook.com/sharer.php...ollaborative database to fight disinformation
https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?te...tive%20database%20to%20fight%20disinformation
https://www.linkedin.com/sharing/sh...ollaborative database to fight disinformation
https://wa.me/?text=#UkraineFacts: ...tive%20database%20to%20fight%20disinformation





Russia's attack on Ukraine is also an attack on facts and reality. Lies, half-truths, misinformation without evidence... Everything is part of a strategy that comes from afar, but against which we have come face to face.
In #UkraineFacts you will find in which countries each disinformation content has been detected and access the debunks of the different fact-checking organizations that have investigated it.
*#UkraineFacts*
*By the International
Fact-checking Network Signatories*
*Developed by Maldita.es*
EN/ES
█ Min: 1 █ Max: 271
This map shows where disinformation about Ukraine's invasion has circulated and has been debunked by IFCN Signatories.
Countries █ in shades of red represent the amount of disinformation that has been identified and debunked by national fact-checkers in each country.
When you click on a piece of disinformation, countries in which that hoax has circulated highligh █ in blue and you can access each country's debunking in its language below
When you click on a country you can see which disinformation has been identified and fact-checked in that country and access the national fact-checker’s articles in their language.
Feel free to embed this map in your webpage through this link
*DEBUNKED DISINFORMATION* : 1115 FACT-CHECKS

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## CAPRICORN-88

Sorry today is April 2022 and not back in 1989. We can easily checked out all these allegations and fake news.

Those lacking in IQ and commonsense can pleased themselves with whatever info they choose to believe.

But NOT the rest of us. It is simply incoherent and defied logic.

Meanwhile most Asians while taking their regular meals unperturbed all these news generated by the US and West.

Hand me the chilli and stop reading all these fake news, a man shouted at his son.

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## Menthol

Wood said:


> I think if Putin had succeeded in Ukraine within a short period like he had expected to, then Georgia would have been in line. But after this debacle, there should be no more delusions for Putin. Still surprised to see that he has the gall to warn independent Scandinavian countries. Only option for him is to use ballistic missiles and nukes



I think for Russia, Ukraine is just the beginning.

In the past, after the collapse of USSR, Russia is in the passive mode, while the West takes over the world... until the red line is crossed in Ukraine in 2014.

I think Russia now, will be in the aggressive mode to dismantle everything about the West.

Not just how Russia will dismantle the dollar reign, but also in propaganda, topping foreign governments, and even war.

One day, this will lead to a direct clash between USA and Russia.

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## Oldman1

khansaheeb said:


> Ukrainians must be winning as it seems they are switching from Guerilla warfare to conventional warfare hence need for Tanks and APCs.
> 
> View attachment 830724
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine ‘retakes whole Kyiv region’ as Russia looks east
> 
> 
> Bodies found scattered on the streets as Russian troops pull back from the capital to focus on southeastern Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com


Its a mix of both, pretty much a hybrid warfare. You have Territorial troops doing guerilla warfare, and you have helicopters, tanks and jets of Ukraine's regular forces and air force fighting somewhere else.

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## CAPRICORN-88

khansaheeb said:


> Ukrainians must be winning as it seems they are switching from Guerilla warfare to conventional warfare hence need for Tanks and APCs.
> 
> View attachment 830724
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine ‘retakes whole Kyiv region’ as Russia looks east
> 
> 
> Bodies found scattered on the streets as Russian troops pull back from the capital to focus on southeastern Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com


Never imagine Kiev is so big esp. the suburbs. 

No wonder Russia soldiers faced so.much difficulty in encircling the city.

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## Menthol

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov hits out at the UNITED KInGDOM for REFUSING to convene the UNSC.
> 
> Russia hasd called for an urgent meeting but UK which is currently the chairs it refused to convent.*
> 
> Bloomberg
> April 04, 2022
> 
> But why is UK refusing to convene a meeting in UNSC since they are so sure Russia commited warcrimes.
> 
> Sure beats me.
> 
> And now all the unrestricted anti-Russia propaganda in circulation.



A thief, after yelling "thief..!" to others, finally reveals the truth about himself by refusing not to attend the court.

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## Oldman1

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Never imagine Kiev is so big esp. the suburbs.
> 
> No wonder Russia soldiers faced so.much difficulty in encircling the city.


Not just trying to take the city but also the whole country almost the size of Texas.

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## Viet

Oldman1 said:


> Its a mix of both, pretty much a hybrid warfare. You have Territorial troops doing guerilla warfare, and you have helicopters, tanks and jets of Ukraine's regular forces and air force fighting somewhere else.


Ukraine fights against the most powerful land army in Europe. To defeat Russia Ukraine needs lots of tanks, aircraft, missiles and more.
Russia red army has 12,000 tanks.

Ukraine will save Europe if Russia is crushed in all fronts, military, financial, economically, geostrategic.

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## Oldman1

Viet said:


> Ukraine fights against the most powerful land army in Europe. It needs tanks, aircraft, missiles and more.
> 
> Russia red army has 12,000 tanks.


Yeah thats something everyone is talking about. They have 12k tanks but how many are actually functional?



Viet said:


> Ukraine fights against the most powerful land army in Europe. To defeat Russia Ukraine needs lots of tanks, aircraft, missiles and more.
> Russia red army has 12,000 tanks.
> 
> Ukraine will save Europe if Russia is crushed in all fronts, military, economically, geostrategic.


Look at Ukraine's. This article was in 2014, so don't know what happened to those tanks.








Stunning images show huge abandoned tank graveyard in Ukraine


Filled with rows upon rows of slowly rusting relics, the once deadly war machines now lie dormant in a secret depot in the town of Kharkiv in the Slobozhanshchyna region of eastern Ukraine - just 20 miles from the border with Russia.




www.dailymail.co.uk





Perhaps they should have held on to them: Hundreds of rusting tanks abandoned in secret Ukrainian depot unveiled as Russia's armoured vehicles line its streets​
*There are more than 400 abandoned tanks at the plant in a secret, heavily guarded depot in the town of Kharkiv*
*The depot is in the Slobozhanshchyna region of eastern Ukraine - just 20 miles from the border with Russia*
*Photographer Pavel Itkin, 18, was able to sneak into the heavily monitored site without being spotted by guards*
*He spent two hours walking around the barely-used repair centre taking photographs of old tanks and engines*


----------



## Menthol

jhungary said:


> The only reasonable expectation for Russian to start a war with Finland and Sweden is that a war prevent them from joining NATO (It actually depends if NATO willing to accept and fight for Sweden and Finland, but that is beside the point)
> 
> The problem is, this operation in Ukraine is not a small operation, 200,000 invading troop is no small feat, that beg the question whether or not Russia is able to conduct military operation this scare alone? The answer is more and more pointing toward Russia is incapable to do so. So even if they can't join NATO, I would say Finland and Sweden is more than a match to fight off Russian, now, will they want their city destroy in order to do so is another issue. That's why I can see both country is going to actively seek NATO membership.
> 
> Think about it like this, you don't need 200,000 troop if you were to secure the entire Donbas like what Putin is claiming now, that mean this is an oversight. That mean the operation Putin envision is not the one he have in reality, So you sort o shift the goal post for it.



I think how the West is pushing Finland and Sweden to join NATO is a double standard.

What if China-Japan-Korea suddenly creates a NATO alike military alliance for the sake of defending themselves against Russia.

The same with all Muslim countries in the Middle East, Africa, South Asia, and SE Asia.

No?

Maybe Yes?

USA and EU are definitely going to say a big NO..!

And then why should Finland and Sweden join NATO then?

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## Viet

Oldman1 said:


> Yeah thats something everyone is talking about. They have 12k tanks but how many are actually functional?


I don’t know probably half of them can be thrown into Ukraine. Putin has done two things very well. He has built a giant military complex. He makes Russia into a gas station. Sanctions would not stop the war.
Putin has $900 billion in reserves. Although many are frozen by sanctions he can continue the war for weeks if not months.


----------



## khansaheeb

Viet said:


> Ukraine fights against the most powerful land army in Europe. To defeat Russia Ukraine needs lots of tanks, aircraft, missiles and more.
> Russia red army has 12,000 tanks.
> 
> Ukraine will save Europe if Russia is crushed in all fronts, military, financial, economically, geostrategic.


Doubt if Russia will be crushed in any front unless NATO is directly involved by infiltrating soldiers and high end fire power.


----------



## Oldman1

Viet said:


> I don’t know probably half of them can be thrown into Ukraine. Putin has done two things very well. He has built a giant military complex. He makes Russia into a gas station. Sanctions would not stop the war.
> Putin has $900 billion in reserves. Although many are frozen by sanctions he can continue the war for weeks if not months.


We'll see.


----------



## SalarHaqq

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Let an independent investigations be carried out. God only knows who did it?
> 
> But why are you in such a hurry to point your finger at the Russian and assign the blame to them? Taking side.
> 
> Based on tales, track records in Dombass and other Eastern Provinces over the past 8 years and IMO these neo-nazi AZOV battalion are capable of commiting such atrocities. That will be my main suspects.
> 
> Why do you assumed the Russian soldiers are so stupid to leave such evidences behind?



In urban combat, even with the most sophisticated precision-guided weapons, a civilian to military casualty rate of 1 to 1 is generally expected within densely populated areas. In other terms, a certain amount of civilians unfortunately are likely to succumb to the fighting, even if no war crime is committed, even if they aren't targeted, even if no disproportionate force is used.

I wonder how difficult it'd be for Ukrainian NATO sidekicks and their extremist paramilitary auxiliaries to simply collect corpses of civilians who might have perished in this way, place them here and there to suggest they were simply executed by the Russians, and stage a sonorous propaganda campaign.

Speaking of which, did you notice how this type of propaganda has gained momentum since circa one week ago? As if for the entire previous month, relatively few such crimes were committed and that suddenly, Russians decided it'd be a good idea to go on a rampage, for whatever strange reason.

All of a sudden, in tune with the general propagandistic onslaught, "condom boxes" are supposedly found in the pockets of fallen Russian troops - they didn't really need them before late March, but now they seemingly do. Or, perhaps have the frisking skills of Ukrainian soldiers and neo-nazis taken a sudden, miraculous upward turn. Of course, just purchasing such an item, putting it next to a dead Russian and photographing the scene is inconceivable. It'd be too hard / too costly an endeavor considering how little gain it would offer in terms of conditioning gullible masses against Moscow... not.

Any actual, definitive proof of systematic Russian war crimes? I've not seen a single one to date. Quite peculiar really, considering how in this day and age, at least one such document would have been likely to leak if allegations leveled against the Russian army were accurate. You know, something along the lines of the footage recorded by Australian occupation troops in Afghanistan, which shows them executing multiple unarmed Afghan civilians. But we're asked to believe the latter was an "isolated incident" by "lone wolves" who will be handed "appropriate punishment", while in the case of Russian forces, it's supposedly standard practice despite the lack of undisputable evidence.

Again, we see zero critical thinking among certain sheepish elements who seem happy about getting brainwashed by NATO. It's all about bias and/or pent up resentment (depending on the individual case). Not that it'll make much of a difference on the battlefield though. Gone are the times when the US regime and its clients could "generate" and mold ground reality to their liking through mere media fabrications, propaganda and lies. Now they shout loudly, and they shout a lot but emerging powers keep doing their own thing with success.

This brings me to the concluding remark: the timing of this sudden eruption of 'atrocities propaganda' versus Russia is telling. It hints at severe desperation on the part of NATO and its Ukrainian allies. The Ukrainian armed forces have been inflicted such important losses and their outlook is so grim that they and their western sponsors are reduced to resorting to uncontrolled, all out demonization of their adversary. Some are sore losers, and the sheep among the audience will go on feeling comfortable inside their fictive bubbles.

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## Piotr

SalarHaqq said:


> In urban combat, even with the most sophisticated precision-guided weapons, a civilian to military casualty rate of 1 to 1 is generally expected. In other terms, a certain amount of civilians unfortunately are likely to succumb to the fighting, even if no war crime is committed, even if they aren't targeted, even if no disproportionate force is used.
> 
> I wonder how difficult it'd be for Ukrainian NATO sidekicks and their extremist paramilitary auxiliaries to simply collect corpses of civilians who might have perished in this way, place them here and there to suggest they were simply executed by the Russians and stage an extensive propaganda campaign.
> 
> Speaking of which, did you notice how this type of propaganda has gained momentum since circa a week ago? As if for the entire previous month, relatively few such crimes were committed and that all of a sudden, Russians decided to go on a rampage, for whatever strange reason.
> 
> All of a sudden, in tune with the general propagandistic onslaught, "condom boxes" are supposedly found in the pockets of fallen Russian troops - they didn't really need them before late March, but now they seemingly do. Or, perhaps have the frisking skills of Ukrainian soldiers and neo-nazis taken a sudden, miraculous upwards turn. Of course, just purchasing such an item, putting it next to a dead Russian and photographing the scene is inconceivable. It'd be too hard / too costly an endeavor considering how little gain it would offer in terms of conditioning gullible masses against Moscow... not.
> 
> Any actual, definitive proof for systematic Russian war crimes? Nope. I've not seen a single one to date. Quite peculiar really, considering that in this day and age, at least one such document would have been likely to leak if allegations leveled against the Russian army were accurate. You know, something along the lines of the footage recorded by Australian occupation troops in Afghanistan, which shows them executing multiple unarmed Afghan civilians. But we're asked to believe this was an "isolated incident" by "lone wolves" who will be handed "appropriate punishment", while in the case of Russian forces, it's supposedly standard practice despite the lack of undisputable evidence.
> 
> Again, we see zero critical thinking among certain sheepish elements who seem happy about getting brainwashed by NATO. It's all about bias and/or pent up resentment (depending on each individual case). Not that it'll make much of a difference on the battlefield though. The times when the US regime and its clients could "generate" and mold ground reality to their liking through mere media fabrications, propaganda and lies are gone. Now they shout loudly, and they shout a lot but emerging powers keep doing their own thing with success.
> 
> This brings me to the concluding remark: the timing of this sudden eruption of 'atrocities propaganda' versus Russia is telling. It hints at severe desperation on the part of NATO and its Ukrainian allies. The Ukrainian armed forces have been inflicted such important losses and their outlook is so grim that they and their western sponsors are reduced to resorting to uncontrolled, all out demonization of their adversary. Some are sore losers, and the sheep among the audience will keep feeling comfortable inside their fictive bubbles.



USA (Banderites) are pathological liars.

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## jhungary

Menthol said:


> I think how the West is pushing Finland and Sweden to join NATO is a double standard.
> 
> What if China-Japan-Korea suddenly creates a NATO alike military alliance for the sake of defending themselves against Russia.
> 
> The same with all Muslim countries in the Middle East, Africa, South Asia, and SE Asia.
> 
> No?
> 
> Maybe Yes?
> 
> USA and EU are definitely going to say a big NO..!
> 
> And then why should Finland and Sweden join NATO then?


Ask Japan, and South Korea on whether or not they want to join China to form a Chinese NATO first, this is the issue here, Country have its own right to choose which alliance they want to make, it is not up to Russia or China to force people to join or not to join a certain alliance. Force them like that and you will get a war, it's that simple.

If and when Japan and South Korea really want to join China and form an Asian NATO, then we can talk about how US/EU would response.

Otherwise, whether or not Sweden and Finland join NATO is none of your and mine business, it is solely the citizens of that country, except it may be for me because I have Swedish Citizenship and my wife is Swedish









New poll finds majority of Swedes in favour of joining Nato


For the first time since Nato's foundation, a slim 51 percent majority of Swedes now backs joining the security alliance, according to a new poll.




www.thelocal.se









__





Finland Races Toward Likely NATO Membership as Putin's Warnings Backfire






www.msn.com

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## SalarHaqq

Piotr said:


> USA (Banderites) are pathological liars.
> View attachment 830733








https://www.ozy.com/true-and-stories/the-great-lie-of-the-first-gulf-war/271486/ 

Give them the internet (a US military project at its foundation) plus "social media", and the antics will gain incommensurate proportions.

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## bobo6661

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511018387996090375
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511019012813164546
> 
> All of these Russian Nazis personal info


best way to describe russian soldiers

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511224536032808964

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511196933284528131

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511187621854138377

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Piotr

SalarHaqq said:


> https://www.ozy.com/true-and-stories/the-great-lie-of-the-first-gulf-war/271486/
> 
> Give them the internet (a US military project at its foundation) plus "social media", and the antics will gain incommensurate proportions.



USA is the Empire of Lies.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511086376149823489





For weeks.. really?
So why publish them only on the 4th of April?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511038023974244365

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511034440151089153

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511180761843609607


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## jhungary

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511086376149823489
> For weeks.. really?
> So why publish them only on the 4th of April?



Just because they have SAT image does not mean they are getting looked at. Bucha was completely under Russian control, there aren't really any point to look at SAT image on Bucha unless Ukrainian is looking for a push.

Also, from the image, if we don't know there are civilian litter on the street because people did went in and look at it, you cannot discern just from the image alone that those are body (I mean if you really say you can see bodies in those image, you have probably unbelievable vision) and even if you can discern they are bodies, it could not possibly to discern whether or not they are dead soldier or dead civilian. Unless you can tell me from the look of the image you can tell these people (That they are people first) are wearing civilian clothes.

You are looking at those image with the benefit of the hindsight.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511173469895106563

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511096680774574088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511062665694744581


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## The SC

Piotr said:


> USA is the Empire of Lies.
> View attachment 830737




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510999377950789639

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## jamahir

jamal18 said:


> Ukraine using civilian areas to base military.



This is an important presentation.

@F-22Raptor @Vergennes @Messerschmitt @Wood @mmr, please watch this reasonable presentation.



dBSPL said:


> It was nothing but the massacre carried out by the Russians in Bucha. Babies killed by bullets in the abdomen, mothers killed while they were tried to cover their children, mass graves covered with sand in the playground... What we saw in Syria, what we saw in the siege around Tripoli, now, similar things happening around Kiev.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: +18
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People in the soup queue were shot at. Even pregnant women were raped. People were executed with their hands tied behind their backs. People were executed by being thrown into the sewer well. Not isolated incidents, but over and over again in many place... In some towns, vehicles were unable to even pass through the streets because of human bodies... If these aren't a reflex of Nazism, what else could be?
> 
> Nazism is a crime against humanity. However, politics is such a dangerous tool that you can accuse the other party of Nazism while whats exactly doing is a Nazizm.



Keeping aside the Bucha incidents to be investigated by neutral observers you tell me what did we see in Syria and the siege of Tripoli ?



denel said:


> These are fake FSB media.... nothing surprises me with the level of fakes these people are getting to.



Oh please stop your self-declared-superiority talks. And you are a criminal who must have killed and injured Communist revolutionaries during your time in the South African Apartheid military which collaborated dearly with Israel including in doing nuclear weapons testing on behalf of Israel.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511103710893592576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511099256358285318

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## jamahir

SalarHaqq said:


> https://www.ozy.com/true-and-stories/the-great-lie-of-the-first-gulf-war/271486/
> 
> Give them the internet (a US military project at its foundation) plus "social media", and the antics will gain incommensurate proportions.





> Amnesty International soon retracted the story from its records when their primary source — a doctor who allegedly had witnessed the incident — lowered his estimate of the number of babies killed from 312 to 72, then to 19. Amnesty later discovered that even those 19 infants had died before the Iraqi invasion.
> 
> Nayirah, for her part, never spoke publicly again. She also wasn’t punished for lying


LOL.

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## Ali_Baba

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511078585498492937
> It looks like a mass surrender of Ukrainian forces.



A Fake staged surrender by Russia as proven by a few posts above.. ie https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/post-13678511

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## patero

SalarHaqq said:


> In urban combat, even with the most sophisticated precision-guided weapons, a civilian to military casualty rate of 1 to 1 is generally expected. In other terms, a certain amount of civilians unfortunately are likely to succumb to the fighting, even if no war crime is committed, even if they aren't targeted, even if no disproportionate force is used.
> 
> I wonder how difficult it'd be for Ukrainian NATO sidekicks and their extremist paramilitary auxiliaries to simply collect corpses of civilians who might have perished in this way, place them here and there to suggest they were simply executed by the Russians and stage a sonorous propaganda campaign.
> 
> Speaking of which, did you notice how this type of propaganda has gained momentum since circa a week ago? As if for the entire previous month, relatively few such crimes were committed and that all of a sudden, Russians decided to go on a rampage, for whatever strange reason.
> 
> All of a sudden, in tune with the general propagandistic onslaught, "condom boxes" are supposedly found in the pockets of fallen Russian troops - they didn't really need them before late March, but now they seemingly do. Or, perhaps have the frisking skills of Ukrainian soldiers and neo-nazis taken a sudden, miraculous upwards turn. Of course, just purchasing such an item, putting it next to a dead Russian and photographing the scene is inconceivable. It'd be too hard / too costly an endeavor considering how little gain it would offer in terms of conditioning gullible masses against Moscow... not.
> 
> Any actual, definitive proof for systematic Russian war crimes? I've not seen a single one to date. Quite peculiar really, considering that in this day and age, at least one such document would have been likely to leak if allegations leveled against the Russian army were accurate. You know, something along the lines of the footage recorded by Australian occupation troops in Afghanistan, which shows them executing multiple unarmed Afghan civilians. But we're asked to believe this was an "isolated incident" by "lone wolves" who will be handed "appropriate punishment", while in the case of Russian forces, it's supposedly standard practice despite the lack of undisputable evidence.
> 
> Again, we see zero critical thinking among certain sheepish elements who seem happy about getting brainwashed by NATO. It's all about bias and/or pent up resentment (depending on each individual case). Not that it'll make much of a difference on the battlefield though. Gone are the times when the US regime and its clients could "generate" and mold ground reality to their liking through mere media fabrications, propaganda and lies. Now they shout loudly, and they shout a lot but emerging powers keep doing their own thing with success.
> 
> This brings me to the concluding remark: the timing of this sudden eruption of 'atrocities propaganda' versus Russia is telling. It hints at severe desperation on the part of NATO and its Ukrainian allies. The Ukrainian armed forces have been inflicted such important losses and their outlook is so grim that they and their western sponsors are reduced to resorting to uncontrolled, all out demonization of their adversary. Some are sore losers, and the sheep among the audience will keep feeling comfortable inside their fictive bubbles.


What a complete load of rubbish, in a thread infested with supporters of an unjustified and brutal invasion of a sovereign nation, this post somehow takes the cake. Welcome to my ignore list.

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## jhungary

patero said:


> What a complete load of rubbish, in a thread infested with supporters of an unjustified and brutal invasion of a sovereign nation, this post somehow takes the cake. Welcome to my ignore list.


I stopped reading that post after I saw him saying "a civilian to military casualty rate of 1 to 1 is generally expected"

It's only 1 to 1 if you want it to be (ie by intentionally targeting civilian)....Even at the height of Brutal Urban fighting during WW2 like Stalingard, it's about 3-4 : 1 where 1.5 millions soldier died on both side with around 200000 civilian killed...

The only battle that have more than 2:1 civilian/military casualty is Leningrad. Which is not really a battle at all, it's a starvation of the entire city........

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## The SC

Execution of an injured Russian POW filmed by ukrop Nazis



Spoiler: Graphic



https://twitter.com/YoshiYamamo_to/status/1511088579795202056







Spoiler: Graphic



https://twitter.com/YoshiYamamo_to/status/1511076887535177732





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511259222780096512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511257791863865347


----------



## Ich

jhungary said:


> Just because they have SAT image does not mean they are getting looked at. Bucha was completely under Russian control, there aren't really any point to look at SAT image on Bucha unless Ukrainian is looking for a push.



Bullshit! There are lots of sats moving over Ukraine. Sats from US, France, UK and others. ALL russian positions are under inspection. Not only front section, but also behind the front - at least once every day. Cause it is essential to know if there are reinforcements on the way or new artillery positions ect.

There is written "military professionel" in your account. But it is the second time where i think that you was in army, and maybe in Irak, but only as Küchenbulle.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511086401298866179

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511086538062503946

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511086604915458056

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## jhungary

Ich said:


> Bullshit! There are lots of sats moving over Ukraine. Sats from US, France, UK and others. ALL russian positions are under inspection. Not only front section, but also behind the front - at least once every day. Cause it is essential to know if there are reinforcements on the way or new artillery positions ect.
> 
> There is written "military professionel" in your account. But it is the second time where i think that you was in army, and maybe in Irak, but only as Küchenbulle.


Did you read my comment at all?

I did not discount there are SAT image on Bucha, I said even if there is SAT image, that does not mean someone is there and watch it. I have had handle over 20,000 image when I was doing TOC in Afghanistan, that does not mean I have to read *EVERY SINGLE ONE* of them, you prioritize which intel you need, seeing Bucha had* ALREADY* captured by Russian. What value of intel can the Ukrainian glim from it? Why would Ukraine read those intel from Bucha unless they are making a push.

Dude, make sure you know what you are talking about before challenge other people, I don't get this "Military Professional" title by accident. I know what I am talking about, you? I don't know.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511072497893994496


----------



## The SC

jhungary said:


> Did you read my comment at all?
> 
> I did not discount there are SAT image on Bucha, I said even if there is SAT image, that does not mean someone is there and watch it. I have had handle over 20,000 image when I was doing TOC in Afghanistan, that does not mean I have to read *EVERY SINGLE ONE* of them, you prioritize which intel you need, seeing Bucha had* ALREADY* captured by Russian. What value of intel can the Ukrainian glim from it? Why would Ukraine read those intel from Bucha unless they are making a push.
> 
> Dude, make sure you know what you are talking about before challenge other people, I don't get this "Military Professional" title by accident. I know what I am talking about, you? I don't know.


To confirm when the bodies appeared, and when the civilians were likely killed, the Visual Investigations team at The Times conducted a before-and-after analysis of satellite imagery. The images show dark objects of similar size to a human body appearing on Yablonska Street between March 9 and March 11. The objects appear in the precise positions in which the bodies were found after Ukrainian forces reclaimed Bucha, as the footage from April 1 shows. Further analysis shows that the objects remained in those position for over three weeks.

https://vp.nyt.com/video/2022/04/04/99816_1_4-bucha-gif_wg_720p.mp4

*Maxar Technologies Inc.* is a space technology company headquartered in Westminster, Colorado, United States..It means they had these satellite pictures and data since March 11.. but showing them on April 4.. Strange .. is the least to say!


----------



## SalarHaqq

jhungary said:


> I stopped reading that post after I saw him saying "a civilian to military casualty rate of 1 to 1 is generally expected"
> 
> It's only 1 to 1 if you want it to be (ie by intentionally targeting civilian)....Even at the height of Brutal Urban fighting during WW2 like Stalingard, it's about 3-4 : 1 where 1.5 millions soldier died with around 200000 civilian killed...
> 
> The only battle that have more than 2:1 civilian/military casualty is Leningrad. Which is not really a battle at all, it's a starvation of the entire city........



And please also tell it to Scott Ritter Jr., former Marine Corps intelligence officer, former UN arms inspector, a knowledgeable and experienced analyst of military affairs no doubt, whom I basically cited. Source:






Impressive interview by the way, and mandatory viewing from start to finish for anyone interested in lifting the veil of NATO propaganda.

Now I'm no expert myself and have no time to conduct in depth research on every detail, but with regards to a concrete piece of information like this, I had/have no special reason to doubt Ritter's word.

At any rate, this was irrelevant to my comment anyway because it's not as if the Ukrainians have published pictures of thousands of killed civilians, is it. So even with a civilian to military casualty ratio of 1 to 10, there'd be enough non-combatant losses to be used for staging a formidable propaganda show. Especially considering that Ukrainian military casualties are estimated by competent sources to range anywhere between 15.000 and 30.000 at this point (not that it would be decisive to my argument, once again).

What I do know a thing or two about, however, is propaganda, in particular western and zionist concocted propaganda. And I have to maintain my core statement that irrefutable evidence of supposed Russian war crimes, let alone systematic ones is yet to surface.


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

The SC said:


> Execution of an injured Russian POW filmed by ukrop Nazis
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/YoshiYamamo_to/status/1511088579795202056
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/YoshiYamamo_to/status/1511076887535177732








Bro, you just killed it. That was HORRIBLE, EVIL and DISGUSTING by the ukrainians...................I now have a severe headache and am on the verge of throwing up after watching the first clip......


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511066612182528005

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## SalarHaqq

The SC said:


> Execution of an injured Russian POW filmed by ukrop Nazis
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/YoshiYamamo_to/status/1511088579795202056
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/YoshiYamamo_to/status/1511076887535177732



Anyone interested in documenting transgression by NATO and their proxies should download this immediately, and transfer it to an external storage device. Don't be lazy. No doubt they'll have it removed from the entire web quite shortly.

Not sure I'm in a mood watch these right now, but from the reactions here it seems that when it comes to evidence, this is more like it. Unfortunately for NATO and their client regimes though, it looks to be depicting not Russia but their own camp busy doing what it has historically excelled at i.e. war crimes.

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## Foinikas



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## jhungary

SalarHaqq said:


> And please go tell it to Scott Ritter Jr., former Marine Corps intelligence officer, former UN arms inspector, a knowledgeable and experienced analyst of military affairs no doubt, whom I basically cited. Source:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Impressive interview by the way, and mandatory viewing from start to finish for anyone interested in lifting the veil of NATO propaganda.
> 
> Now I'm no expert myself and have no time to conduct in depth research on every detail, but with regards to a concrete piece of information like this, I had/have no special reason to doubt Ritter's word.
> 
> At any rate, this was irrelevant to my comment anyway because it's not as if the Ukrainians have published pictures of thousands of killed civilians, is it. So even with a civilian to military casualty ratio of 1 to 10, there'd be enough non-combatant losses to be used for staging a formidable propaganda show. Especially considering that Ukrainian military casualties are estimated by competent sources to range anywhere between 15.000 and 30.000 at this point (not that it would be decisive to my argument, once again).
> 
> What I do know a thing or two about, however, is propaganda, in particular western and zionist concocted propaganda. And I have to maintain my core statement that irrefutable evidence of supposed Russian war crimes, let alone systematic ones is yet to surface.


First of all, I don't know nor care who this "Scott Ritter" is or what he did. 

Anybody can say anything on the internet, to be honest? I don't know why he said that, but as I said, unless you can find me any battle where there is a 1:1 casualty regarding Civilian and Combatant death, I will agree with what he said.

As I said, even at the height of WW2, the ratio is not 1:1 (probably with the exception of the 2 atomic bomb.)

Iwo Jima saw a ratio of 2: 1 when there are about 20000 IJN soldier killed with approximately 8000 civilian death. 

And Okinawa ratio is similar, where you have around 110,000 killed and discounting civilian that fought you are looking at between 50,000 to 80,000 civilian killed.

And both battle are famous for indiscriminating urban warfare. 

The ratio are closer to 1:1 if you compare "Casualty" instead of killed. 

And finally, if you look at the body in Bucha, you will see their hand with fingernail attached but the skin under it is blacken, that indicate the body are between 1 to 2 weeks of decomposition. Which is between Autolysis and Bloating and definitely not before March because none of them show advance stage of liquification (Otherwise their nail would be off of their hand) , Which mean unless you are accusing the Ukrainian sneak inside Russian Controlled Bucha and killed all these people, those are the work of the Russian.

So yes, all these "Civilian and Combatant" death is beside the point.


----------



## Foinikas

SalarHaqq said:


> Anyone interested in documenting transgression by NATO and their proxies should download this immediately, and transfer it to an external storage device. Don't be lazy. No doubt they'll have it removed from the entire web quite shortly.
> 
> Not sure I'm in a mood watch these right now, but from the reactions here it seems that when it comes to evidence, this is more like it. Unfortunately for NATO and their client regimes though, it looks to be depicting not Russia but their own camp busy doing what they've historically excelled at i.e. war crimes.


I watched them,they are not as gruesome as footage from Syria,but it shows the narrative of brave and benevolent Ukrainians and "evil Russians" shatter. Of course the people like @mmr @gambit and @kingQamaR will say "Oh that's war".

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## jhungary

The SC said:


> To confirm when the bodies appeared, and when the civilians were likely killed, the Visual Investigations team at The Times conducted a before-and-after analysis of satellite imagery. The images show dark objects of similar size to a human body appearing on Yablonska Street between March 9 and March 11. The objects appear in the precise positions in which the bodies were found after Ukrainian forces reclaimed Bucha, as the footage from April 1 shows. Further analysis shows that the objects remained in those position for over three weeks.
> 
> https://vp.nyt.com/video/2022/04/04/99816_1_4-bucha-gif_wg_720p.mp4
> 
> *Maxar Technologies Inc.* is a space technology company headquartered in Westminster, Colorado, United States..It means they had these satellite pictures and data since March 11.. but showing them on April 4.. Strange .. is the least to say!


As I said, just because they had took those image back in March 11 that does not mean they are being looked at, it may not be picked up by people, SAT image is SAT image, unless someone are there to see it, it will just stay that, a bunch of photo in a pile, and as I explained, unless there is a reason for people to see it, it will get buried. They are taking it out now because there were report that civilian were killed in the area. Otherwise it would not have any value on that intel. I mean, there are tons of ISTAR drone, satellite image for people to process, not all of them are gonna be look at. 

You only look at stuff that you are planning to do, you don't have time, nor resource to process everything. 

On the other hand, how does that alter the fact when they release it now? The image was taken back in March 11, right? Then that would already had happened and recorded.


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## bobo6661

SalarHaqq said:


> Anyone interested in documenting transgression by NATO and their proxies should download this immediately, and transfer it to an external storage device. Don't be lazy. No doubt they'll have it removed from the entire web quite shortly.
> 
> Not sure I'm in a mood watch these right now, but from the reactions here it seems that when it comes to evidence, this is more like it. Unfortunately for NATO and their client regimes though, it looks to be depicting not Russia but their own camp busy doing what they've historically excelled at i.e. war crimes.


Hmmm if there is no "war" according to russia aren't russian's just terrorist's ?

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## Foinikas

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Bro, you just killed it. That was HORRIBLE, EVIL and DISGUSTING by the ukrainians...................I now have a severe headache and am on the verge of throwing up after watching the first clip......


The worst video I have seen is the beheading of the Russian soldier by Chechen islamists. 

I was disturbed for about a week and others I've talked with about it,told me it took them some days or weeks too,to get it out of their mind. That was the most horrible one. And unfortunately there are so many other gruesome videos from Syria,by the "moderate rebels",that you reach to a point where you think that executing them by shooting is relatively ok.

I saw a guy executed with DhsK from like...2-3 meters distance by jihadist terrorists.

And there's a video of Turkish soldiers executing 2 Kurdish female fighters with G3s.

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## Ich

jhungary said:


> Did you read my comment at all?
> 
> I did not discount there are SAT image on Bucha, I said even if there is SAT image, that does not mean someone is there and watch it. I have had handle over 20,000 image when I was doing TOC in Afghanistan, that does not mean I have to read *EVERY SINGLE ONE* of them, you prioritize which intel you need, seeing Bucha had* ALREADY* captured by Russian. What value of intel can the Ukrainian glim from it? Why would Ukraine read those intel from Bucha unless they are making a push.
> 
> Dude, make sure you know what you are talking about before challenge other people, I don't get this "Military Professional" title by accident. I know what I am talking about, you? I don't know.



Thats the point. I am not "military professional" (whatever it means), but even the television of your country (and most other countries) show in their programs how a spy satelite works - and that since decades - and what it can see and how the "pictures" are evaluated, also automatically with support of programs*.* 

Also Bucha was front section to Kiew. And as front section it was inspected and evaluated every day for sure. Even the smallest changes.

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## Muhammed45

Obviously NATO is lying. 

These liars are famous for Dresden massacre. It's a shame that Germany is a NATO member state since Americans have blood of innocent German citizens in their hands.

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## jhungary

Ich said:


> Thats the point. I am not "military professional" (whatever it means), but even the television of your country (and most other countries) show in their programs how a spy satelite works - and that since decades - and what it can see and how the "pictures" are evaluated, also automatically with support of programs*.*
> 
> Also Bucha was front section to Kiew. And as front section it was inspected and evaluated every day for sure. Even the smallest changes.


It have nothing to do with "Ability" to use Satellite or how it was used. It it about "MILITARY VALUE" of any such intel.

Once the Russian had moved on from Bucha and into Irpin on March 6, Irpin, *NOT* Bucha, is the focal point of the Russian Invasion for the Ukrainian. There may be sporadic intel coming from Busch, but unless it have to go up to that particular street, intel people MAY NOT pick up that intel.

Dude, just because Bucha is on the frontline with Kyiv, that does not mean every street of Bucha have to be monitored anytime 24/7. How hard is it to understand?? There are like 120 street in Bucha, are you saying Ukraine should put 120 people to disseminate intel 24/7?





All I can say is, you watched too much TV, you really dont know how stuff actually worked.


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## Ich

jhungary said:


> Once the Russian had moved on from Bucha and into Irpin on March 6, Irpin, *NOT* Bucha, is the focal point of the Russian Invasion for the Ukrainian. There may be sporadic intel coming from Busch, but unless it have to go up to that particular street, intel people MAY NOT pick up that intel.



Wow! So the E373 doesnt matter any more since Irpin was taken by russian troops? Come on! Stop talking trash!

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511103926300553216


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## Song Hong

Entire battalion of Ukraine marine surrendered. This is very significant.

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## jhungary

Ich said:


> Wow! So the E373 doesnt matter any more since Irpin was taken by russian troops? Come on! Stop talking trash!
> 
> View attachment 830757


Dude, you are funny.

Why E373 is important to begin with? Can you name me some reason other than it is a main road? Was that a MSR? Was that a FARP? Was that a deployment center or staging area??

Do you even know what you want to look for as a legitimate intelligence? Just because it is a road, which is used to travel, that does not mean they are an more "important" than any of the back road, just in case you are wondering, military invasion dont usually travel thru main road, they are called "Main Supply Route" for a reason, They are used in supply, when we are talking about a head strong invasion, MSR usually are ignored.

So, again, please tell me what E373 is so important it warrant a 24/7 peg? You really should go back and watch TV...


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## CAPRICORN-88

sur said:


> Pre-24-Feb happenings ignored by MSM:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511146603830292480


Should be investigated by UN as these are accounts of real warcrimes by the survivors.


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## Song Hong

It is puzzling at how Mosul Iraq, a city of 3 million (and many other US war crime zone), was flattened twice with American airstrikes in 2003 and 2017, without a single photograph of dead bodies being published.

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## CAPRICORN-88




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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Czech donates some 1970s T-72M1 and BMP-1 tanks to Ukraine as fresh meat for Russian Kornet and Metis M1 anti tank missiles.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511229685107240962
@F-22Raptor @gambit


----------



## Wood

Menthol said:


> I think for Russia, Ukraine is just the beginning.
> 
> In the past, after the collapse of USSR, Russia is in the passive mode, while the West takes over the world... until the red line is crossed in Ukraine in 2014.
> 
> I think Russia now, will be in the aggressive mode to dismantle everything about the West.
> 
> Not just how Russia will dismantle the dollar reign, but also in propaganda, topping foreign governments, and even war.
> 
> One day, this will lead to a direct clash between USA and Russia.








I don't believe Russia has the capacity or reserve to open multiple fronts at this point. Putin is 70 and Russia will not recover economically in his lifetime if he does not agree for peace with Ukraine

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## SalarHaqq

Song Hong said:


> Entire battalion of Ukraine marine surrendered. This is very significant.



These are some of their strongest units, extensively trained and equipped for interoperability with NATO. The Ukrainian military lost several thousand of their most effective troops in Mariupol alone.

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## Ich

jhungary said:


> Dude, you are funny.
> 
> Why E373 is important to begin with? Can you name me some reason other than it is a main road? Was that a MSR? Was that a FARP? Was that a deployment center or staging area??
> 
> Do you even know what you want to look for as a legitimate intelligence? Just because it is a road, which is used to travel, that does not mean they are an more "important" than any of the back road, just in case you are wondering, military invasion dont usually travel thru main road, they are called "Main Supply Route" for a reason, They are used in supply, when we are talking about a head strong invasion, MSR usually are ignored.
> 
> So, again, please tell me what E373 is so important it warrant a 24/7 peg? You really should go back and watch TV...



Oh boy! First you can find in my answers "at least once per day" and not "24/7". Where it was more likely twice a day cause it was front section. And as defender of Kiew, you need to know if there are reinforcements in Bucha. And this is not only with the E373 russian troops can relocate faster, but also can gather easier troops left and right of the E373 in Bucha, e.g, ToS and alike to support an attack along the E373 into Kiew. Irpin was taken to shield Bucha, but not to attack from Irpin into Kiew.


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## Knockingdoors

Mariupol destroyed 90% of the entire city


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511300347838570501


----------



## Wood

Finnish president says NATO referendum no longer necessary







www.euractiv.com





Finnish president says NATO referendum no longer necessary ​


> Sufficient evidence now shows that most Finns want to join the NATO alliance, President Sauli Niinistö told Swedish-speaking broadcaster YLE on Wednesday after he had called for a broad survey for membership just one week ago.



What do Swedes feel about joining NATO? It seems certain that Finland is gonna apply now.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Doesn't "BUCHA" mean "children" in Punjabi?


----------



## Viet

khansaheeb said:


> Doubt if Russia will be crushed in any front unless NATO is directly involved by infiltrating soldiers and high end fire power.


Well it looks to me Ukraine alone can take on Russia army heads on. What they need is unlimited supplies of weapons, foods, oil to win the war. Ukraine saves Europe from Russia babarism.


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511291969938542597

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## Viet

U.S. Drones for Ukraine Will Include Latest Tank Killers​
Newest model versions can destroy Russian tanks, artillery
‘Flying Shotgun’ is part of new $300 million Pentagon order

AeroVironment Switchblade-600Source: AeroVironment Inc.
By
Anthony Capaccio
+Follow
5 April 2022, 01:54 CEST

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## Paul2

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510972157974749191
> Now Putin will dare to invade Finland?



They have a lot of forests, and Simos

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## jhungary

Ich said:


> Oh boy! First you can find in my answers "at least once per day" and not "24/7". Where it was more likely twice a day cause it was front section. And as defender of Kiew, you need to know if there are reinforcements in Bucha. And this is not only with the E373 russian troops can relocate faster, but also can gather easier troops left and right of the E373 in Bucha, e.g, ToS and alike to support an attack along the E373 into Kiew. Irpin was taken to shield Bucha, but not to attack from Irpin into Kiew.


Dude, again, 120 roads, at least once a day, so you have 120 people looking at the road at lease once a day just at Bucha?

And lol, you don't Recon the city itself for reinforcement because you can hide reinforcement in the city, Infantry can get inside building and vehicle and hide inside garages. You don't recon the city to see if there are reinforcement coming into your AO, you do that by taking picture of staging area, camp outside the city, that way you know what kind of force you are expecting. Satellite and drone cannot see thru building and see how many soldier are inside a building, it give you a picture as is.

And finally, as I say, *YOU DON'T TRAVEL THRU* MSR if you are invading. To attack a city, main road are what people expect to travel, and that is why you can get ambush there. No one in the military would march your invasion troop thru main road and avenue, that's suicide. On the other hand, E373 stretch all the way toward Western Ukraine toward Poland, which is not the road the Russian took to get down from Belarus. If you have to chart the status of the invasion, what's coming in and what's going out, you chart at the point of entry. Which is P28 or P37, You monitor the border crossing, because you know the absolute what's coming in, and what's going out. 

Man, again, you watched too much TV, what you said DOES NOT MAKE ANY MILITARY SENSE AT ALL....


----------



## Piotr

Foinikas said:


> View attachment 830749



Killing women and children is typical for Banderites. They killed many Polish women and children as well.

Polish parliamentarian Janusz Korwin-Mikke question US narrative about Bucha.
He asks "How do we know that the Russians murdered not the Ukrainians ?"








Muhammed45 said:


> Obviously NATO is lying.
> 
> These liars are famous for Dresden massacre. It's a shame that Germany is a NATO member state since Americans have blood of innocent German citizens in their hands.



US false flags are geting boring.

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## bobo6661

Piotr said:


> Polish parliamentarian Janusz Korwin-Mikke question US narrative about Bucha.
> He asks "How do we know that the Russians murdered not the Ukrainians ?"


Kurwin yee right the a moron thats want to be a king and likes to hit his womans, He was a joke and is a joke ... That no one listens


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

BTR-82A light tank pounding Ukrainian defenders in Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511303490861408261


----------



## Sayfullah

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511164663752544256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511300845924761604


----------



## Ich

jhungary said:


> Dude, again, 120 roads, at least once a day, so you have 120 people looking at the road at lease once a day just at Bucha?



Wow! So you want to tell me that it needs *1 man per street *to evaluate Bucha? This is really one of the silliest statements i ever heard...



jhungary said:


> To attack a city, main road are what people expect to travel, and that is why you can get ambush there. No one in the military would march your invasion troop thru main road and avenue, that's suicide.



Well, so why putting any defence at the main roads anyway cause *"everyone knows"* that any attack there "is suicide"? And what if the attacker do not care (russia do) about civilians? Wouldn`t it be perfect for the attacker to know (cause "everyone knows") that the main roads are defended by lots of troops? Then laughing and bomb the the whole buildings along the main road into ground? Knowing that this would easily kill thousends of the defending troops?

What you fairy tail here is just wishthinking about what a battle has to be.

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## Sayfullah

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511315379435577344


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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Well, not sure if Humvee with TOW are going to cut it. You will need heavy, because this is going to be armor warfare, you probably can pop one or two shot and then going to be destroyed by Russian tank. You cannot replace armor with Light Skin Vehicle....
> 
> If Russia know what they are doing (And I suspected that they had learnt their lesson,) they would be able to crush light AT infantry without defensive position. The War being fought in the East is going to be more conventional and less asymmetrical



How? Light motorized is all about hit, and run. Tow's outrange Western tank gun effective range, let alone glass optics of T72s. And as we know, they don't have a lot of tanks in the south. Their only way to return fire are SPGs.

It all depends on what Ukrainians want to do. Keep poking them until they find a breech in defences to send troop transports through? Yes.

I would not argue though about it becoming much more straightforward if they can just get enough heavy armour, and push.


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## Foinikas

Piotr said:


> Killing women and children is typical for Banderites. They killed many Polish women and children as well.
> 
> Polish parliamentarian Janusz Korwin-Mikke question US narrative about Bucha.
> He asks "How do we know that the Russians murdered not the Ukrainians ?"
> View attachment 830769
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US false flags are geting boring.
> View attachment 830770


Another version

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511316762620485636

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511288558111563776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511289422184337408

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## jamahir

Foinikas said:


> Where?



Supposedly in the Southern African bush where he killed and injured Communists when he was in the South African Apartheid military doing the dirty work on behalf of NATO.



thetutle said:


> Let me fix that for her. She forgot to add. "neighbours that fight back".



Like Syria which fought back Erdogan's government ?


----------



## Foinikas

jamahir said:


> Supposedly in the Southern African bush where he killed and injured Communists when he was in the South African Apartheid military doing the dirty work on behalf of NATO.


And he still thinks we live in the Cold War.


jamahir said:


> Like Syria which fought back Erdogan's government ?


But sir,Turkey was only defending against Kurdish guerillas,Turkey didn't want to occupy half of northern Syria and create a vassal State in Idlib 🙄 Turkey is a peaceful country,it's the Greeks,Serbs,Syrians,Egyptians,Iranians,Armenians,Russians,
Israelis,Kurds,French,half of Libya and half of Lebanon who are evil 😂

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511291969938542597



Damn, what a shot!


----------



## mmr

EU to propose ban on Russian coal | DW | 05.04.2022


The European Union is mulling a total phaseout of coal imports from Russia as the bloc considers how to move away from Russian energy.




www.dw.com





EU to propose ban on Russian coal​


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511273725106143239


----------



## jhungary

Ich said:


> Wow! So you want to tell me that it needs *1 man per street *to evaluate Bucha? This is really one of the silliest statements i ever heard...


I am telling you why you need to monitor Bucha at all?



Ich said:


> Well, so why putting any defence at the main roads anyway cause *"everyone knows"* that any attack there "is suicide"? And what if the attacker do not care (russia do) about civilians? Wouldn`t it be perfect for the attacker to know (cause "everyone knows") that the main roads are defended by lots of troops? Then laughing and bomb the the whole buildings along the main road into ground? Knowing that this would easily kill thousends of the defending troops?
> 
> What you fairy tail here is just wishthinking about what a battle has to be.



Dude, I am not talking about static defence, have you ever heard of mine and IED? Why do you think we took that many casualty due to IED in Iraq? Your enemy plant mine and IED along the main road you travel to either slow your progress or denied the use of a road, then you are trap in a killzone where your enemy can mortar you or fire artillery on you while you try to demine or try to back out, that's where you get killed. It have nothing to do with defending main road,

Again, you really should go back to watch TV instead of try to comment on military matter. It is quite obviously not something for you. And I don't have time to give you a warfighting 101 so you and I are on similar level....


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511316915418972167

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> How? Light motorized is all about hit, and run. Tow's outrange Western tank gun effective range, let alone glass optics of T72s. And as we know, they don't have a lot of tanks in the south. Their only way to return fire are SPGs.
> 
> It all depends on what Ukrainians want to do. Keep poking them until they find a breech in defences to send troop transports through? Yes.
> 
> I would not argue though about it becoming much more straightforward if they can just get enough heavy armour, and push.


You can hit and run if you have enough place to run, as I said, Eastern Ukraine is not like Western Ukraine, it's mostly open field and meadows. You can't really run far enough to outrun the enemy tank, sure, you may get out 1 or 2 shot, but at the end, it wouldn't do much if the enemy have enough armor to attack.

In build up area, there are space that infantry and light vehicle can go to where big tank cannot, in an open field, it's another game.

You can't really stop an armor column by doing hit and run, to do that, you will need a lot of Humvee doing hit and run, and in that case, it would not be a hit and run anymore....


----------



## Foinikas

jhungary said:


> Dude, I am not talking about static defence, *have you ever heard of mine and IED?* Why do you think we took that many *casualty *due to *IED* in Iraq? You plant* mine and IED *along the main road you travel to either slow your progress or *denied* the use of a road,* then you are trap* in a killzone where your enemy can mortar you or fire artillery on you while you try to demine or try to back out, that's where you get killed. It *have* nothing to do with defending main road,


Sir,you live in Australia long time?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511295115783983110

Reactions: Angry Angry:
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## jhungary

Foinikas said:


> Sir,you live in Australia long time?


define long time? And no, English is NOT my first language.

And also, I don't proof read because most of the people who asked that question themselves have bad English to start with

Say for example. "Do you live in Australia long?" or if that is a question, I will phase it to "How long have you been living in Australia" Instead of "you live in Australia long time"


----------



## Ich

jhungary said:


> I am telling you why you need to monitor Bucha at all?
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, I am not talking about static defence, have you ever heard of mine and IED? Why do you think we took that many casualty due to IED in Iraq? You plant mine and IED along the main road you travel to either slow your progress or denied the use of a road, then you are trap in a killzone where your enemy can mortar you or fire artillery on you while you try to demine or try to back out, that's where you get killed. It have nothing to do with defending main road,
> 
> Again, you really should go back to watch TV instead of try to comment on military matter. It is quite obviously not something for you. And I don't have time to give you a warfighting 101 so you and I are on similar level....



If you do not "monitor" Bucha, then you do not know what is happening at this front section.

And what does IEDs help in a city if first there is total bombing before the attack? Nothing.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Foinikas

jhungary said:


> define long time? And no, English is NOT my first language.
> 
> And also, I don't proof read because most of the people who asked that question themselves have bad English to start with
> 
> Say for example. "Do you live in Australia long?" or if that is a question, I will phase it to "How long have you been living in Australia" Instead of "you live in Australia long time"


Come on,can't you imagine the American accent? "You live in Australia long?" 😂😂😂 Don't worry,I make lots of typos here. I thought you were born in Australia, that's why I got confused.


----------



## jhungary

Ich said:


> If you do not "monitor" Bucha, then you do not know what is happening at this front section.


You monitor the "Front"??

The war had move onto Irpin by 11 March, why you still need to look at Bucha??



Ich said:


> And what does IEDs help in a city if first there is total bombing before the attack? Nothing.


..........

You do know people can plant IED anytime they want, right? You don't just plant it before and during any type of pre-invasion bombing......

Also, if you bomb every inch of that main road, explain to me how you are going to use it to travel??


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511241288632479744

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Foinikas said:


> Come on,can't you imagine the American accent? "You live in Australia long?" 😂😂😂 Don't worry,I make lots of typos here. I thought you were born in Australia, that's why I got confused.


It's not an American accents. I don't know what kind of accent is that to say "You live in Australia long time"

I can type perfect and check every post and proof read this, but as I said, most people here talk about these stuff themselves have bad English, and I am here to talk about military, not English Lit.

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## Piotr

Foinikas said:


> Another version
> 
> View attachment 830800



Bucha is as fake as Skripal "poisoning"

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511325663235649540
The Ukrainians are now using TOS-1 against Russian forces

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Foinikas

Piotr said:


> Bucha is as fake as Skripal "poisoning"
> View attachment 830807


They survived???


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511337127774146575

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511337128831197199

T-72s arriving into Ukraine


----------



## Piotr

bobo6661 said:


> Kurwin yee right the a moron thats want to be a king and likes to hit his womans, He was a joke and is a joke ... That no one listens



You may not like him, but he is right. There is no evidence that it was the Russians that killed civilians in Bucha. To me it looks like Banderites did it. Killing civilians is favourite hobby of Banderites.

Did Korwin hit someone (other than Michał Boni ) ?

Last but not least he was in Crimea after it become part of Russia so he know ground realities.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511325663235649540
> The Ukrainians are now using TOS-1 against Russian forces



Fake. Ukraine don't have 220 mm thermobaric rounds.


----------



## Piotr

Foinikas said:


> They survived???



Of course they did. So much about "military grade" nerve agent


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511337127774146575
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511337128831197199
> 
> T-72s arriving into Ukraine



More meat for Kornet and Metis M1.


----------



## Foinikas

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Fake. Ukraine don't have 220 mm thermobaric rounds.


They captured a TOS-1 full of missiles


----------



## Piotr

Song Hong said:


> Entire battalion of Ukraine marine surrendered. This is very significant.



No surprise that they don't want to die for Kolomoyski, Bandera and Zelensky.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

Moldova is nervous about what Putin may do next


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511320348268154883


----------



## Clutch

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511295115783983110



That's child's play... American soldiers stealing Iraqi Gold .....

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Paul2

BHAN85 said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New York Times Story on Intercepted Russian Forces Radio Communications
> 
> 
> The New York Times have recently run an incredible video story about how Russian radio communications are being intercepted and recorded by ham radio operators and open source radio monitoring hobbyists in Ukraine. Some of the communications reveal the extent of the logistical issues experienced...
> 
> 
> 
> www.rtl-sdr.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's ridiculous how Russia risk soldiers lives because they dont provide them with a encrypt telecommunications that today price is almost free.



Russian military uses Hyterra. The problem is long range comms. All Russian HF radios are vehicle mounted. And we know what's going on with Russian vehicles.

I bet UHF/VHF short range comms are covered by commercial encrypted radios, but long range is a bigger problem.

All military HF in China has long switched to text, we don't use audio on HF exactly because it's so easy to jam/disrupt/detect.


----------



## bobo6661

Piotr said:


> You may not like him, but he is right. There is no evidence that it was the Russians that killed civilians in Bucha. To me it looks like Banderites did it. Killing civilians is favourite hobby of Banderites.
> 
> Did Korwin hit someone (other than Michał Boni ) ?
> 
> Last but not least he was in Crimea after it become part of Russia so he know ground realities.


He is more like an animal in a zoo he's there for our entertainment and stupid remarks... He is not a serious political and no one takes him for one. He is like the top of our far right 






here how he defends Hitler


----------



## Wood



Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ich

jhungary said:


> You monitor the "Front"??
> 
> The war had move onto Irpin by 11 March, why you still need to look at Bucha??
> 
> 
> ..........
> 
> You do know people can plant IED anytime they want, right? You don't just plant it before and during any type of pre-invasion bombing......
> 
> Also, if you bomb every inch of that main road, explain to me how you are going to use it to travel??



Oh boy! Irpin is only 200 meters from Bucha. Maybe you learned that "the front" is an limited area with a depth of some meters. But this is the same nonesense as the most what you answered here to me.






So first you say that IEDs would hinder an army to take on a city along the main roads, and now, after i show you that an army also can bomb a city into the ground and IEDs are then useless, you now tell me that IEDs does not have to be plant before the bombing. 

You are rowing around like a rower ten meters away from a waterfall. It is really ridiculous.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Induction of poverty in Ukraine.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511286269074096129


----------



## bobo6661

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Fake. Ukraine don't have 220 mm thermobaric rounds.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498697710429425672
think they got around 3 of those 

loaders








568 — Postimages







postlmg.cc













468 — Postimages







postlmg.cc





and there where pictures of captured tos thermobaric so its 100% possible


----------



## jhungary

Ich said:


> Oh boy! Irpin is only 200 meters from Bucha. Maybe you learned that "the front" is an limited area with a depth of some meters. But this is the same nonesense as the most what you answered here to me.
> 
> View attachment 830823


FIrst of all, that DID NOT explain why you need to focus on Bucha, when the advance is on Irpin, 200 meters away or 200km away, you are talking about focusing on Street level, not on strategic level, not even tactical level. I mean how does that matter what happened in Liniya Street in North West Bucha when the attack is on South East Irpin.

As I said, what is the military importance to focus on a different suburb when the fighting is in Irpin?


Ich said:


> So first you say that IEDs would hinder an army to take on a city along the main roads, and now, after i show you that an army also can bomb a city into the ground and IEDs are then useless, you now tell me that IEDs does not have to be plant before the bombing.
> 
> You are rowing around like a rower ten meters away from a waterfall. It is really ridiculous.



You have to be stupid to think people cannot plant IED anytime. I mean, is there a law I can't replant IED on the same stretch of road after you have bombed it? I mean if I want to plant IED, on a road, what stop me from planting it after you bomb the same road or even the entire city?? Is that some kind of force field stopping me to plant it on that road after you bomb it?? Or do I only have 1 chance to plant IED and after that, no more? This is not even a military question, this is just logic....

Set aside the fact that if you bomb a city to the ground, you have a lot of rubble that can hide those IED, which make the job for people planting them easier........

Plus, you still have not answer me how you plan to travel on that road if you have bomb it every inch??

Dude, you are really hilarious.......


----------



## F-22Raptor

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498697710429425672
> think they got around 3 of those
> 
> loaders
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 568 — Postimages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> postlmg.cc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 468 — Postimages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> postlmg.cc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and there where pictures of captured tos thermobaric so its 100% possible





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511315212715978755

And another

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Caliber cruise missiles attack Ukrainian infrastructure to make Ukraine impoverished. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511354167339753482
@F-22Raptor @gambit


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511284174921076736

We now have visual evidence of Russian forces firing on the cyclist in Bucha. Its the cyclist we've seen dead in the road in the Bucha videos.

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Ich

jhungary said:


> FIrst of all, that DID NOT explain why you need to focus on Bucha, when the advance is on Irpin, 200 meters away or 200km away, you are talking about focusing on Street level, not on strategic level, not even tactical level. I mean how does that matter what happened in Liniya Street in North West Bucha when the attack is on South East Irpin.
> 
> As I said, what is the military importance to focus on a different suburb when the fighting is in Irpin?
> 
> 
> You have to be stupid to think people cannot plant IED anytime. I mean, is there a law I can't replant IED on the same stretch of road after you have bombed it? I mean if I want to plant IED, on a road, what stop me from planting it after you bomb the same road or even the entire city?? Is that some kind of force field stopping me to plant it on that road after you bomb it?? Or do I only have 1 chance to plant IED and after that, no more? This is not even a military question, this is just logic....
> 
> Set aside the fact that if you bomb a city to the ground, you have a lot of rubble that can hide those IED, which make the job for people planting them easier........
> 
> Plus, you still have not answer me how you plan to travel on that road if you have bomb it every inch??
> 
> Dude, you are really hilarious.......



LOL, thats what i wrote: You dont know what counts as "front". Also having some ToS in Bucha - what you never will know cause it is 200 meters away from what you think is "front" and so isnt worth monitoring as you said - could eleminate the counterattack on Irpin and could eleminate the attacker. For you it would sure came "out of nowhere" cause you wouldnt monitor Bucha cause it isnt "front". But me is sure that the ukrainians had take a look on the actual sat pictures of Bucha before they start against Irpin and saw that there were no ToS or alike. 

And taking a city along mainroads: I will not tell you how i would do it cause there is a high chance that i needed it in Germany in future.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Piotr said:


> No surprise that they don't want to die for Kolomoyski, Bandera and Zelensky.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511284174921076736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511289179375915010

The evidence is now undeniable

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## jhungary

Ich said:


> LOL, thats what i wrote: You dont know what counts as "front". Also having some ToS in Bucha - what you never will know cause it is 200 meters away from what you think is "front" and so isnt worth monitoring as you said - could eleminate the counterattack on Irpin and could eleminate the attacker. For you it would sure came "out of nowhere" cause you wouldnt monitor Bucha cause it isnt "front". But me is sure that the ukrainians had take a look on the actual sat pictures of Bucha before they start against Irpin and saw that there were no ToS or alike.
> 
> And taking a city along mainroads: I will not tell you how i would do it cause there is a high chance that i needed it in Germany in future.


If that is 200 meters away, that would be too close, it make no different then if this was on Bucha or Irpin. I mean you use RTSA to get some reaction time, to get what is coming so you can be prepared, what's the reaction time you got when they were 200 meters away your AO? 5 second?

If that is other part of Bucha, then what's the point? As I said, not all road they need to monitor and in this case, Bucha itself is not really a place you would monitor, it's not a troop convergence, it is not a cross road or any major traffic junction, even the SAT photo they took is empty street with possible bodies in it, which make no discerning Military Value.

It couldn't eliminate shit, unless you monitor all the road all the time, because if you take 2 photo over a single day, your intel is off in just 12 hours, you can be shit all in that 12 hours after you took that photo and waiting on the next one. Why? Because you don't have a complete picture, and you don't know where the enemy troop has gone since you are waiting on the next round of SAT image.

The only thing the Ukraine would get from taking SAT picture from Bucha is that the Russian are coming for Irpin, Duh, they already did, it tell them nothing else.

And lol, you wouldn't tell me because you have no idea how that work. Stop pretending to know shit when you don't know anything.


----------



## denel

jamahir said:


> This is an important presentation.
> 
> @F-22Raptor @Vergennes @Messerschmitt @Wood @mmr, please watch this reasonable presentation.
> 
> 
> 
> Keeping aside the Bucha incidents to be investigated by neutral observers you tell me what did we see in Syria and the siege of Tripoli ?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please stop your self-declared-superiority talks. And you are a criminal who must have killed and injured Communist revolutionaries during your time in the South African Apartheid military which collaborated dearly with Israel including in doing nuclear weapons testing on behalf of Israel.


Stop writing to me; I told you i dont reply to your useless posts.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## sammuel

Muhammed45 said:


> Obviously NATO is lying.
> 
> These liars are famous for Dresden massacre. It's a shame that Germany is a NATO member state since Americans have blood of innocent German citizens in their hands.




True . Also in 334 BC NATO invaded Persia and later India.









~

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jamal18

jamahir said:


> LOL.


She was the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to the US. She was in the US at the time of the invasion.

Both the lying mass murderers Bush and Blair quoted her.

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## F-22Raptor

jamahir said:


> Since you forget this is a discussion forum where members can quote others including to counter nonsense which I did to you. Quote me the forum rule where this is not allowed.



Theres your direct visual evidence in the drone video above. The Russian Nazi vehicle fires multiple rounds at the cyclist.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

shell hospital in Mykolaiv


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511313581354229761


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

sammuel said:


> True . Also in 334 BC NATO invaded Persia and later India.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~



NATO only represents America.


----------



## jamal18

Muhammed45 said:


> Obviously NATO is lying.
> 
> These liars are famous for Dresden massacre. It's a shame that Germany is a NATO member state since Americans have blood of innocent German citizens in their hands.


Nato/US lying machine is the most sophisticated on the planet. The Russians simply can't compete.

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## jhungary

@Oldman1 @Paul2

Gen Wesley Clark just explained on CNN why Ukrainian need tanks, artillery, gunship and planes in the next phase of war.

LOL, I swear to god, they probably are listening to our conversation  This is not the first time this happens....

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Love Love:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> @Oldman1 @Paul2
> 
> Gen Wesley Clark just explained on CNN why Ukrainian need tanks, artillery, gunship and planes in the next phase of war.
> 
> LOL, I swear to god, they probably are listening to our conversation  This is not the first time this happens....



Why don't the US send 2,000 Abrams tanks to Ukraine? Easy targets for Russian anti tank missiles.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511376081407905793

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## Muhammed45

jamal18 said:


> Nato/US lying machine is the most sophisticated on the planet. The Russians simply can't compete.


They prepared Syria for invasion with similar lies. They lied in case of Iraq and Libya and Iran etc. They are master of lie and hypocrisy. 

Their beloved Israel is made and built on Holocaust lie, their ideology of freedom and democracy is a lie and a sham. Their terrorist mercenaries shot people of bucha in the streets and blamed it on Russians. 

Iblis himself is Student of Americans. Butcher and Bucha, similar spell. Lol

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ali_Baba

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511291969938542597



And hard for the pilot to dodge as it being guided by a person and not an algorithm.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russian artillery pounding Ukrainian defenses in Donbas


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511377792251924483
Russian artillery shooting in Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511299139623133185
Ka-52 CAS helicopters


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511297036439924741

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## jhungary

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Why don't the US send 2,000 Abrams tanks to Ukraine? Easy targets for Russian anti tank missiles.


dude, seriously, don't quote me anymore, I am not interested in "This is easy target for XYZ"

If you want to know how easy it is, go to the frontline and try to shoot down some T-72 armed with a Kornet, and if you come back alive, then we will talk. 

Otherwise, don't bother to quote me anymore.


----------



## Ich

jhungary said:


> If that is 200 meters away, that would be too close, it make no different then if this was on Bucha or Irpin. I mean you use RTSA to get some reaction time, to get what is coming so you can be prepared, what's the reaction time you got when they were 200 meters away your AO? 5 second?
> 
> If that is other part of Bucha, then what's the point? As I said, not all road they need to monitor and in this case, Bucha itself is not really a place you would monitor, it's not a troop convergence, it is not a cross road or any major traffic junction, even the SAT photo they took is empty street with possible bodies in it, which make no discerning Military Value.
> 
> It couldn't eliminate shit, unless you monitor all the road all the time, because if you take 2 photo over a single day, your intel is off in just 12 hours, you can be shit all in that 12 hours after you took that photo and waiting on the next one. Why? Because you don't have a complete picture, and you don't know where the enemy troop has gone since you are waiting on the next round of SAT image.
> 
> The only thing the Ukraine would get from taking SAT picture from Bucha is that the Russian are coming for Irpin, Duh, they already did, it tell them nothing else.



Suddenly Bucha is "front"? Some posts ago you denied that. *rowing rowing rowing roooow hiiigh*

If you plan to retake Irpin, then you have to intel also Bucha - days before! Or is your modus operandi "first make a plan, then take a look if it fits into reality"?



jhungary said:


> And lol, you wouldn't tell me because you have no idea how that work. Stop pretending to know shit when you don't know anything.



Haha, nice try.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511237477775941632


----------



## mmr

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Why don't the US send 2,000 Abrams tanks to Ukraine? Easy targets for Russian anti tank missiles.


They are arming taiwan lol. Dont worry. We know winnie the poh keep whinning about usa selling arms to taiwan. Too bad pla wont do anything about it.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Ich said:


> Suddenly Bucha is "front"? Some posts ago you denied that. *rowing rowing rowing roooow hiiigh*
> 
> If you plan to retake Irpin, then you have to intel also Bucha - days before! Or is your modus operandi "first make a plan, then take a look if it fits into reality"?



No, Iprin is front, I am not the one who said it was 200 meters from Irpin, you are. I was saying if it is 200 meters apart, then it wouldn't be matter. The front is *South of Irpin*, where Ukraine were planning to punch thru, you don't suddenly attack North of Irpin, or South of Bucha, how are you getting there?

If I want to take Irpin, Why wold I put my ISTAR asset on Bucha? I would put it on Irpin, I am fighting in Irpin, i need to know what I am facing, where are the defence structure located, what type of firepower they have in the vicinity , not what 500meters to 4.6 km down the line (Which is the exact distant between south of Bucha to South of Irpin...which is the distant form the Red Line to the Black line)







Like in this map, if I am in Ukrainian Position, which is the front line? The Black line or the Red Line?

You don't make plan from scouting the next town over, you make plan to scout the point of entry, the point of convergence. Both were not Bucha. I would tell you where it was but then I remember you have none Military Experience, and you know shit about tactical map and tactical situation.


Ich said:


> Haha, nice try.


Yeah, you have no answer, nice try. And you completely abandoned your "Bombing" argument.


----------



## coffee_cup

Ich said:


> Wow! So you want to tell me that it needs *1 man per street *to evaluate Bucha? This is really one of the silliest statements i ever heard...



You are wasting your time and energies man, seriously! Use the "Ignore" button. Has helped me a lot for the many days now!

I mean this statement "1 man per street", OMG! .... your jaw literally drops at the sheer stupidity of it!


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511389374281396224

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510648066403143683

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510648066403143683


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511344820618420231

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511345328972345368
Top Gen of the US Armed Forces


----------



## jamal18

Ukrainian military shooting civilians. Current frontline situation in Mariupol.

4.22 seconds in.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

@Ali_Baba, you gonna dispute this one too?



Song Hong said:


> Entire battalion of Ukraine marine surrendered. This is very significant.




Translation: The crew of a small missile ship of the Black Sea Fleet from the Black Sea carried out a salvo launch of seven Kalibr cruise missiles at designated ground targets on the territory of Ukraine.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511272430635040769


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## gambit

Ich said:


> Wow! So you want to tell me that it needs *1 man per street *to evaluate Bucha? This is really one of the silliest statements i ever heard...


Ever? What kind of *COMBAT* experience do you have for you to use the word 'ever'? The word 'ever' usually imply *PREVIOUS* knowledge and experience to use as reference against the current event. So how much *COMBAT* experience do you have in evacuating civilians out of a city under enemy attack?


----------



## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510648066403143683
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510648066403143683



Your so desperate that it really feels like your on a payroll

Reactions: Angry Angry:
1


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## Ich

jhungary said:


> Like in this map, if I am in Ukrainian Position, which is the front line? The Black line or the Red Line?



Wow! So for you the "front" is a small area, maybe less than a meter in depth, a "line"? 



jhungary said:


> You don't make plan from scouting the next town over, you make plan to scout the point of entry, the point of convergence. Both were not Bucha. I would tell you where it was but then I remember you have none Military Experience, and you know shit about tactical map and tactical situation.



Well, you see the stripe of undeveloped land between Irpin and Kiew? Where the attack to retake Irpin was moved along? Having some ToS in Bucha with thermobaric, the whole attack would have turned into ashes. Cause it is in range if the ToS were in Bucha. So knowing what is at the entrance of Irpin wouldnt helped you in a see of fire. Maybe this little example show you that "front" is not only the area the soldiers are positioned opposite. "Front" is all what have the range to impact, let alone air support or pinpoint missiles. 



jhungary said:


> Yeah, you have no answer, nice try. And you completely abandoned your "Bombing" argument.



LOL, i didnt "abandoned" bombing. I didnt say that i would not bombing. But i also didnt say that i would bombing. I only say that bombing is a possibility.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jamal18

Message to me fromAppolon.

'What does UK say about russian collaborateurs?'

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

bobo6661 said:


> Your so desperate that it really feels like your on a payroll



Check this out 👇

MoD Russia, [4/1/2022 9:49 PM]
[ Photo ]
Fake:
Russian mines endanger navigation in the Black Sea. This was stated by the President of Ukraine Zelensky during his speech before the Parliament of Norway.

Reality:
The Russian Ministry of Defence denied Zelensky’s statement. The Russian Defence Ministry spokesman, Major General Igor Konashenkov (https://****/mod_russia_en/526), stated that the Ukrainian Navy, from February 25th to March 4th, deployed 420 anchor mines in the Azov and Black Seas. All mines are of an outdated design; as a result of a breakage of the cables, at least 10 of them went into a “free floating”. One mine was discovered and neutralized by Turkish sailors. The whereabouts of the remaining Ukrainian mines is currently unknown.
The Russian Federation opens on a daily basis, from 08:00 to 19:00, a safe corridor with a length of 80 and a width of 3 nautical miles. All this is being done while Ukraine continues blocking at least 68 foreign ships in Odessa, Nikolaev and Chernomorsk.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #FakeNews
@mod_russia_en

MoD Russia, [4/2/2022 5:29 AM]
[ Video ]
🇷🇺Footage of evacuation of Izyum residents by Russian servicemen. 

▫️The evacuation was carried out during shelling of residential areas from the positions of the AFU and Nationalist’ Battalions.

#Russia #Ukraine 
@mod_russia_en

MoD Russia, [4/2/2022 6:54 AM]
[ Video ]
🇷🇺Specialists from the International Mine Action Centre of the Russian Armed Forces have started humanitarian demining in Lugansk People’s Republic.

▫️The group includes demining, robotics and explosive ordnance disposal units.

▫️The LPR territories liberated from AFU units and nationalist battalions will be cleared using Uran-6 robotic demining complex, which has proved its worth during special missions in the Syrian Arab Republic and Nagorno-Karabakh.

#Russia #Ukraine #demining
@mod_russia_en

MoD Russia, [4/2/2022 11:04 AM]
[ Photo ]
#MoD_art
@mod_russia_en

MoD Russia, [4/2/2022 4:40 PM]
[ Photo ]
🗓 Top News Today

🚛Russian servicemen delivered humanitarian aid to Izyum (https://****/mod_russia_en/616), Kharkov region, for the first time.

💥High-precision air-based missiles (https://****/mod_russia_en/626) near the railway Lozovaya and Pavlograd stations destroyed armoured vehicles, ammunition and fuel tanks sent to reinforce the Ukrainian troops in Donbass.

💥Iskander precision (https://****/mod_russia_en/626) strike on the defence headquarters in Kharkov city on Thursday, March 31, confirmed the killing of more than 100 nationalists and mercenaries from Western countries. 

◽️Specialists from the International Mine Action Centre (https://****/mod_russia_en/623) of the Russian Armed Forces have started humanitarian demining in Lugansk People’s Republic.

◽️Despite all the difficulties and obstacles posed by Kiev, in the past 24 hours, without the participation of the Ukrainian authorities, the UN High Commissioner for Refugees and the International Committee of the Red Cross, 14,168 (https://****/mod_russia_en/628) people have been evacuated (https://****/mod_russia_en/628) to Russia, including 891 children.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine
@mod_russia_en

MoD Russia, [4/4/2022 1:35 PM]
🇷🇺🇺🇳Meeting was held in Moscow between the Deputy Minister of Defence of the Russian Federation, Colonel-General Alexander Fomin, and the UN Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs Martin Griffiths, during which the situation in Ukraine was discussed.

▫️Deputy Minister noted the successful joint work with representatives of the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs accredited to the Russian Defence Ministry in Moscow. Joint Coordination Headquarters for Humanitarian Response in Ukraine, established in Russian Defence Ministry, regularly transmits documents with objective information on the humanitarian situation in Ukraine to UN staff.

▫️Russian Defence Ministry informed Martin Griffiths about the increase in humanitarian assistance to the population of Ukraine in the areas controlled by the Russian Armed Forces, as well as in the Donetsk and Lugansk people's republics.

▫️Russian side emphasized that the key factor for Russian Defence Ministry in the joint delivery of humanitarian aid to the civilian population of Ukraine with the UN is to ensure the safety of the Organization's employees.

▫️Kiev uncontrollably distributed weapons to the population, which led to an increase in banditry and looting. Moreover, the number of incidents involving the use of weapons is steadily increasing, which can lead to the death of UN staff.

▫️It was also noted that the Ukrainian authorities have launched an information campaign to discredit Russian servicemen.

▫️For this purpose, provocations are used and staged incidents are created. A vivid example is the accusation of the Russian Armed Forces of an airstrike on a maternity hospital in Mariupol. On the eve it became known that the main character of the reports in the media denies the version of the air raid on the maternity hospital from the Russian side. According to her, nationalists from Azov units used several women in labor to film a report in a hospital destroyed, allegedly by Russia, according to a pre-prepared scenario. False information was spread by Western media.

▫️Russian Ministry of Defence has shown concrete evidence of genocide and brutality of the Ukrainian leadership and paramilitary units towards their own population.

▫️Deputy Minister of Defence of Russia said that the humanitarian situation in Ukraine is deteriorating. First of all, this is due to actions of Ukrainian authorities and nationalist battalions that continue to block citizens in cities.

▫️UN Deputy Secretary-General has been informed about the situation that has developed in connection with Kiev's sabotage of the regime of open humanitarian corridors. It is indicated that the Russian side has been creating every day since March 4 all conditions to ensure the safety of humanitarian corridors for the evacuation of civilians and foreign citizens in the eastern and western directions. However, the convoys of refugees come under intense fire from AFU and national battalions, including mortars and large-caliber small arms fire. At the same time, despite this opposition, more than 123,000 people were saved only through humanitarian corridor from Mariupol to east without participation of Ukrainian side.

▫️On April 4, from 06:00, Russia reopened humanitarian corridor to rescue foreign citizens and civilians from Mariupol. At the same time, the Russian side is ready to ensure the entry of ships into the port of Berdyansk for evacuation of foreign citizens.

▫️67 foreign vessels continue to be blocked in Ukrainian ports. Every day from 08:00 to 19:00 (Moscow time), Russian Armed Forces open the maritime humanitarian corridor, which is a safe lane in the south-west direction. However, the threats of shelling and the high mine danger created by AFU do not allow ships to safely go to the open sea.

▫️For his part, M. Griffiths noted the importance of such contacts in order to solve complex humanitarian issues in crisis regions of the world.

▫️An understanding has been reached on the continuation of regular interaction.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine 
@mod_russia_en

MoD Russia, [4/5/2022 4:01 AM]
🇷🇺🇺🇦Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

▫️The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine.

💥On the evening of April 4, high-precision, long-range sea-based weapons near Ochakov destroyed a training centre for Ukrainian special operations forces used, among other things, to house foreign mercenaries. 

💥High-precision air-based missiles have destroyed 4 fuel depots for supplying groups of Ukrainian troops near Kremenets, Cherkasy, Zaporozhye and Novomoskovsk.

✈️💥During the night, operational-tactical aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces hit 134 military assets of Ukraine. Among them: 8 command posts and communication hubs, 1 radar for the S-300 missile system, 1 launcher of Tochka-U missile system, 6 ammunition depots and 2 fuel depots, as well as 85 strong points and areas of Ukrainian military equipment concentration.

💥Russian Air Defence means shot down 4 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles in the air near Chernobaevka, Industrialnaya, Gurty and Nizhnyaya Krynka.

📊In total, 125 Ukrainian aircraft and 91 helicopters, 398 unmanned aerial vehicles, 226 anti-aircraft missile systems, 1,969 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 214 multiple launch rocket systems, 852 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,873 units of special military vehicles were destroyed during the operation.

❗️According to confirmed information, in Moschun, 23 kilometres north-west of Kiev, on the evening of April 5, servicemen of the 72nd Ukrainian main centre for psychological operations carried out another staged shooting of civilians allegedly killed by violent actions of the Russian Armed Forces for further distribution through the Western media.

▫️Similar events have now been organized by the Ukrainian special services in Sumy, Konotop and other cities.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing
@mod_russia_en


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511394485036453888

US intel on Russia has been "extraordinary": Gen Milley


Its clear US intel has deeply penetrated Russia.


Milley also confirms that Russia couldn't mass the combat power needed to take Kyiv.

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## gambit

Ich said:


> Wow! So for you the "front" is a small area, maybe less than a meter in depth, a "line"?


That is outright stupid. It does not mean literally some physical measurement. You are being pedantic because you have no idea of what you are talking about and you are trying, in vain I would add, to bog down the discussion with stupid details.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

MoD Russia, [4/1/2022 9:49 PM]
[ Photo ]
Fake:
Russian mines endanger navigation in the Black Sea. This was stated by the President of Ukraine Zelensky during his speech before the Parliament of Norway.

Reality:
The Russian Ministry of Defence denied Zelensky’s statement. The Russian Defence Ministry spokesman, Major General Igor Konashenkov (https://****/mod_russia_en/526), stated that the Ukrainian Navy, from February 25th to March 4th, deployed 420 anchor mines in the Azov and Black Seas. All mines are of an outdated design; as a result of a breakage of the cables, at least 10 of them went into a “free floating”. One mine was discovered and neutralized by Turkish sailors. The whereabouts of the remaining Ukrainian mines is currently unknown.
The Russian Federation opens on a daily basis, from 08:00 to 19:00, a safe corridor with a length of 80 and a width of 3 nautical miles. All this is being done while Ukraine continues blocking at least 68 foreign ships in Odessa, Nikolaev and Chernomorsk.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #FakeNews
@mod_russia_en

MoD Russia, [4/2/2022 5:29 AM]
[ Video ]
🇷🇺Footage of evacuation of Izyum residents by Russian servicemen. 

▫️The evacuation was carried out during shelling of residential areas from the positions of the AFU and Nationalist’ Battalions.

#Russia #Ukraine 
@mod_russia_en

MoD Russia, [4/2/2022 6:54 AM]
[ Video ]
🇷🇺Specialists from the International Mine Action Centre of the Russian Armed Forces have started humanitarian demining in Lugansk People’s Republic.

▫️The group includes demining, robotics and explosive ordnance disposal units.

▫️The LPR territories liberated from AFU units and nationalist battalions will be cleared using Uran-6 robotic demining complex, which has proved its worth during special missions in the Syrian Arab Republic and Nagorno-Karabakh.

#Russia #Ukraine #demining
@mod_russia_en

MoD Russia, [4/2/2022 11:04 AM]
[ Photo ]
#MoD_art
@mod_russia_en

MoD Russia, [4/2/2022 4:40 PM]
[ Photo ]
🗓 Top News Today

🚛Russian servicemen delivered humanitarian aid to Izyum (https://****/mod_russia_en/616), Kharkov region, for the first time.

💥High-precision air-based missiles (https://****/mod_russia_en/626) near the railway Lozovaya and Pavlograd stations destroyed armoured vehicles, ammunition and fuel tanks sent to reinforce the Ukrainian troops in Donbass.

💥Iskander precision (https://****/mod_russia_en/626) strike on the defence headquarters in Kharkov city on Thursday, March 31, confirmed the killing of more than 100 nationalists and mercenaries from Western countries. 

◽️Specialists from the International Mine Action Centre (https://****/mod_russia_en/623) of the Russian Armed Forces have started humanitarian demining in Lugansk People’s Republic.

◽️Despite all the difficulties and obstacles posed by Kiev, in the past 24 hours, without the participation of the Ukrainian authorities, the UN High Commissioner for Refugees and the International Committee of the Red Cross, 14,168 (https://****/mod_russia_en/628) people have been evacuated (https://****/mod_russia_en/628) to Russia, including 891 children.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine
@mod_russia_en

MoD Russia, [4/4/2022 1:35 PM]
🇷🇺🇺🇳Meeting was held in Moscow between the Deputy Minister of Defence of the Russian Federation, Colonel-General Alexander Fomin, and the UN Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs Martin Griffiths, during which the situation in Ukraine was discussed.

▫️Deputy Minister noted the successful joint work with representatives of the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs accredited to the Russian Defence Ministry in Moscow. Joint Coordination Headquarters for Humanitarian Response in Ukraine, established in Russian Defence Ministry, regularly transmits documents with objective information on the humanitarian situation in Ukraine to UN staff.

▫️Russian Defence Ministry informed Martin Griffiths about the increase in humanitarian assistance to the population of Ukraine in the areas controlled by the Russian Armed Forces, as well as in the Donetsk and Lugansk people's republics.

▫️Russian side emphasized that the key factor for Russian Defence Ministry in the joint delivery of humanitarian aid to the civilian population of Ukraine with the UN is to ensure the safety of the Organization's employees.

▫️Kiev uncontrollably distributed weapons to the population, which led to an increase in banditry and looting. Moreover, the number of incidents involving the use of weapons is steadily increasing, which can lead to the death of UN staff.

▫️It was also noted that the Ukrainian authorities have launched an information campaign to discredit Russian servicemen.

▫️For this purpose, provocations are used and staged incidents are created. A vivid example is the accusation of the Russian Armed Forces of an airstrike on a maternity hospital in Mariupol. On the eve it became known that the main character of the reports in the media denies the version of the air raid on the maternity hospital from the Russian side. According to her, nationalists from Azov units used several women in labor to film a report in a hospital destroyed, allegedly by Russia, according to a pre-prepared scenario. False information was spread by Western media.

▫️Russian Ministry of Defence has shown concrete evidence of genocide and brutality of the Ukrainian leadership and paramilitary units towards their own population.

▫️Deputy Minister of Defence of Russia said that the humanitarian situation in Ukraine is deteriorating. First of all, this is due to actions of Ukrainian authorities and nationalist battalions that continue to block citizens in cities.

▫️UN Deputy Secretary-General has been informed about the situation that has developed in connection with Kiev's sabotage of the regime of open humanitarian corridors. It is indicated that the Russian side has been creating every day since March 4 all conditions to ensure the safety of humanitarian corridors for the evacuation of civilians and foreign citizens in the eastern and western directions. However, the convoys of refugees come under intense fire from AFU and national battalions, including mortars and large-caliber small arms fire. At the same time, despite this opposition, more than 123,000 people were saved only through humanitarian corridor from Mariupol to east without participation of Ukrainian side.

▫️On April 4, from 06:00, Russia reopened humanitarian corridor to rescue foreign citizens and civilians from Mariupol. At the same time, the Russian side is ready to ensure the entry of ships into the port of Berdyansk for evacuation of foreign citizens.

▫️67 foreign vessels continue to be blocked in Ukrainian ports. Every day from 08:00 to 19:00 (Moscow time), Russian Armed Forces open the maritime humanitarian corridor, which is a safe lane in the south-west direction. However, the threats of shelling and the high mine danger created by AFU do not allow ships to safely go to the open sea.

▫️For his part, M. Griffiths noted the importance of such contacts in order to solve complex humanitarian issues in crisis regions of the world.

▫️An understanding has been reached on the continuation of regular interaction.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine 
@mod_russia_en

MoD Russia, [4/5/2022 4:01 AM]
🇷🇺🇺🇦Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

▫️The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine.

💥On the evening of April 4, high-precision, long-range sea-based weapons near Ochakov destroyed a training centre for Ukrainian special operations forces used, among other things, to house foreign mercenaries. 

💥High-precision air-based missiles have destroyed 4 fuel depots for supplying groups of Ukrainian troops near Kremenets, Cherkasy, Zaporozhye and Novomoskovsk.

✈️💥During the night, operational-tactical aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces hit 134 military assets of Ukraine. Among them: 8 command posts and communication hubs, 1 radar for the S-300 missile system, 1 launcher of Tochka-U missile system, 6 ammunition depots and 2 fuel depots, as well as 85 strong points and areas of Ukrainian military equipment concentration.

💥Russian Air Defence means shot down 4 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles in the air near Chernobaevka, Industrialnaya, Gurty and Nizhnyaya Krynka.

📊In total, 125 Ukrainian aircraft and 91 helicopters, 398 unmanned aerial vehicles, 226 anti-aircraft missile systems, 1,969 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 214 multiple launch rocket systems, 852 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,873 units of special military vehicles were destroyed during the operation.

❗️According to confirmed information, in Moschun, 23 kilometres north-west of Kiev, on the evening of April 5, servicemen of the 72nd Ukrainian main centre for psychological operations carried out another staged shooting of civilians allegedly killed by violent actions of the Russian Armed Forces for further distribution through the Western media.

▫️Similar events have now been organized by the Ukrainian special services in Sumy, Konotop and other cities.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing
@mod_russia_en

MoD Russia, [4/5/2022 4:01 AM]
[ Photo ]
@mod_russia_en

*MoD Russia, [4/5/2022 8:10 AM]
Fake:*
Russian units blew up a tanker of nitric acid in Rubezhnoe in Lugansk Region. Such reports are spread by Ukrainian telegram channels.

*Truth:
According to information of Lugansk people's militia, the Ukrainian Armed Forces are preparing Rubezhnoe for surrender. The tanker was blown up in workshop of Zarya plant, the moment of detonation was specially planned taking into account the wind direction - towards the liberated Kudryashovka. The provocation was most likely prepared for a long time in order to carry it out right before the retreat.

Russian Defence Ministry earlier reported (https://****/mod_russia_en/208) that Ukrainian Security Service, with the support of the West, was preparing a provocation involving the use of toxic substances against civilians.* US has repeatedly stated that it will condemn any chemical attack by Russia (although we have not had chemical weapons since 2017 (https://****/mod_russia_en/198)), and is now quite routinely ready to provide Ukraine (https://www.politico.com/news/2022/...t-against-chemical-attacks-00022355?_amp=true) with gas masks and other protective equipment.

This once again proves that provocateurs act according to the same patterns. It is enough to remind the story of the "chemical attack" in Idlib (https://en.topwar.ru/113421-himicheskiy-feyk-v-idlibe.html), which served as a pretext for US cruise missile strike.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #FakeNews
@mod_russia_en

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Ukraine asks Germany for delivery of 100 Marder light tanks.
Germany says no because it needs them in the NATO.
















Bericht: Deutschland liefert keine 100 Schützenpanzer an die Ukraine


Die Bundeswehr wird keine Schützenpanzer an die ukrainischen Streitkräfte liefern. Das hat Verteidigungsministerin Christine Lambrecht laut Medienberichten entschieden. Die Panzer seien derzeit in Nato-Verpflichtungen gebunden.




www.rnd.de

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511364608069713920


----------



## PakAlp

War map 05/04/2022. Is Russian planning another attack on Kiev? This time from the East.


----------



## Wood

Viet said:


> Ukraine asks Germany for delivery of 100 Marder light tanks.
> Germany says no because it needs them in the NATO.
> 
> 
> View attachment 830893
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bericht: Deutschland liefert keine 100 Schützenpanzer an die Ukraine
> 
> 
> Die Bundeswehr wird keine Schützenpanzer an die ukrainischen Streitkräfte liefern. Das hat Verteidigungsministerin Christine Lambrecht laut Medienberichten entschieden. Die Panzer seien derzeit in Nato-Verpflichtungen gebunden.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rnd.de


The war in Ukraine is already NATOs war. Germany should send heavy offensive weapons to Ukraine. At this point, it is a low cost solution for European security.

Btw, how long will it take for the Ukrainians to learn how to use these tanks? 🤔


----------



## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Check this out 👇


No thx done with russian propaganda after lavrov said there is no war and they didnt attack ukraine


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Destroyed Ukrainian equipment can be seen from the video


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511356059952328716

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## jamal18

Just posted the current video on Mariupol. 

The city was meant to fall ages ago, but still hasn't. The Azov battalion is still holding out in the steel mill. It seems the situation hasn't changed for at least a week. All I see in the video is DMR troops, although the civilians do mention Russian troops.


----------



## bobo6661

jamal18 said:


> Just posted the current video on Mariupol.
> 
> The city was meant to fall ages ago, but still hasn't. The Azov battalion is still holding out in the steel mill. It seems the situation hasn't changed for at least a week. All I see in the video is DMR troops, although the civilians do mention Russian troops.


Yee and Kadrov troops doing tik-tok

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Ich said:


> Wow! So for you the "front" is a small area, maybe less than a meter in depth, a "line"?



Front as in Front "LINE" and this war is not that big that require an Army Front.

That line I draw on that map is an arbitrary line I draw to demonstrate that the frontLINE is not south of Bucha, it's south of Irpin, if you have to go into where EXACTLY is the front line, it extended all the way toward the East of Kyiv Oblast toward Brovary, is that line long enough for you?



Ich said:


> Well, you see the stripe of undeveloped land between Irpin and Kiew? Where the attack to retake Irpin was moved along? Having some ToS in Bucha with thermobaric, the whole attack would have turned into ashes. Cause it is in range if the ToS were in Bucha. So knowing what is at the entrance of Irpin wouldnt helped you in a see of fire. Maybe this little example show you that "front" is not only the area the soldiers are positioned opposite. "Front" is all what have the range to impact, let alone air support or pinpoint missiles.



They took Bucha, did it get Kyiv City within TOS range? No.

The front line is a line of contest, and the "Front" is the location of contest, you can argue I can nuke Kyiv or at least send a Ballistic missile toward Kyiv in a missile silo in Moscow, that does not make Moscow a "Front". How about all the Cruise Missile launch site from inside Belarus and Russian, I guess those are all "Front" now, right? So do i have to have ISTAR asset put in Moscow and see if they start launching missile? Or any of the Missile Launch site, If I were to take Irpin?

Also, you are talking about that stretch of land OUTISDE the city of Bucha, not inside, which render the entire point of whether you should tab ISTAR asset on Bucha pointless.

Dude, as I said, if you don't know shit about Military, you shouldn't say anything, you are just going to embarrass yourself.



Ich said:


> LOL, i didnt "abandoned" bombing. I didnt say that i would not bombing. But i also didnt say that i would bombing. I only say that bombing is a possibility.



Anything is a possibility, if you say something is "possible" you would have to back that up, as I said, you have to stupid to believe people are not going to plant or replant IED once you bomb the area, and also, you are not going to be able to use that road if you bomb it, you are then denying yourself that MSR, again, either show me I was wrong, or shut up about it.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

bobo6661 said:


> Yee and Kadrov troops doing tik-tok



The Chechens are kicking arse in Mariupol. They're cleaning the place room by room and building by building. Yesterday, they captured 100s of your friends as POWs. 

Now, here Ukrainian tanks in civilian areas got hit

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511342133613142020

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Paul2

Ali_Baba said:


> And hard for the pilot to dodge as it being guided by a person and not an algorithm.



He wasn't even trying. Missile warning receiver, and laser warning receivers didn't work, or were ignored.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511400930364825605


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

@Ali_Baba @bobo6661, 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511295302212411393

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> That is outright stupid. It does not mean literally some physical measurement. You are being pedantic because you have no idea of what you are talking about and you are trying, in vain I would add, to bog down the discussion with stupid details.


That guy is, for the lack of word, a moron........I am sorry if that break the forum rule, but I can't find a better word for it.

He claim Ukrainian or we should have a random city in complete ISTAR tab with satellite because some TOS launcher can launch missile at some point.....But he failed to realise the Russian can just do it anywhere within that range circle. So should we put a tab on EVERY SINGLE spot around the range of TOS launcher 24 hours a day and 7 days a week in order to make sure no TOS launcher can touch Kyiv......

I don't think even all the NSA agents goes Overtime can pull that off.........

That dude know shit about how ISTAR work, and I am running out of layman term trying to explain to him....


----------



## Viet

Wood said:


> The war in Ukraine is already NATOs war. Germany should send heavy offensive weapons to Ukraine. At this point, it is a low cost solution for European security.
> 
> Btw, how long will it take for the Ukrainians to learn how to use these tanks? 🤔


Germany lacks of tanks. It can’t afford to give tanks to Ukraine. Germany fears itself an attack by Russia. Germany did much of demilitarization when Merkel came to power. That’s problem for your survival when you believe too much to peaceful rise shit.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511382798082445320

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511324226774577158

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> @Ali_Baba @bobo6661, 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511295302212411393


That’s nothing. The German Wehrmacht annihilated the Red army at the battle of Kiev 1941. Deaths, prisoners went to one million. And Germany lost the war.









Battle of Kiev (1941) - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org

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## Ich

gambit said:


> That is outright stupid. It does not mean literally some physical measurement. You are being pedantic because you have no idea of what you are talking about and you are trying, in vain I would add, to bog down the discussion with stupid details.



What exactly is wrong with what i said about "front"? And what exactly is right about he said about "front*line*"? Please help me on my "stupidy"


----------



## gambit

Wood said:


> The war in Ukraine is already NATOs war. Germany should send heavy offensive weapons to Ukraine. At this point, it is a low cost solution for European security.


I speculate that at this point, the notion of a geopolitical 'buffer zone' is quite destroyed, or at least diminished as a credible argument. A 'buffer' implies neutrality and if a state perceived a threat from any source, there is no neutral state. Defenders of Russia argued that if NATO had disbanded after the collapse of the Soviet Union, then Russia would not have perceived itself threatened by anyone. But that begged the question of what *ELSE* would it take to assure Russia? No one can credibly argue that neutrality is all it would take. We have no choice but to take Russia's word for it and we may even received some kind of treaty that says neutrality is all Russia wanted. But history is filled with broken promises inside signed treaties, like the one signed between Nazi Germany and Russia and we know how that turned out.

The collapse of the Soviet Union did not turned Russia into a paranoid and distrustful state. Russia as a Soviet state was *ALREADY* paranoid and distrustful of everything. The disbandment of NATO would not make any difference. Going back to the question of 'What else' would it take to assure Russia, what if neutrality is not enough? Neutrality mean 50/50 odds of going either way. It does not mean %100 *NEVER* going either way. It means I have not made up my mind yet so am telling *ALL* of you what you want to hear at this time. Powerful, paranoid, and distrustful states do not view neutrality as truly neutral but as opportunities waiting for the right conditions to turn a supposedly 'neutral' state one way, not the other. This is what people do not understand.


----------



## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511320348268154883



New build - or from US stocks?


----------



## Wood

gambit said:


> The collapse of the Soviet Union did not turned Russia into a paranoid and distrustful state. Russia as a Soviet state was *ALREADY* paranoid and distrustful of everything. The disbandment of NATO would not make any difference.


On a tangential note, I've realized now that Russia is a ethno-nationalist state. I've been watching excerpts from Russian state TV and some ad-hoc street interviews from Putin's support base in Russia. Almost every time, there is a direct or an allusory reference to the great Slavic nation whose time has come. Soviet union has not only seeded paranoia into Russia; it has also seeded an apparent desire to have some big racial union among old Russians. The Ukrainians have apparently not got the memo and are therefore bound to this fate one way or the other


----------



## Ich

jhungary said:


> Front as in Front "LINE" and this war is not that big that require an Army Front.
> 
> That line I draw on that map is an arbitrary line I draw to demonstrate that the frontLINE is not south of Bucha, it's south of Irpin, if you have to go into where EXACTLY is the front line, it extended all the way toward the East of Kyiv Oblast toward Brovary, is that line long enough for you?



Here we go again with "frontline"  Which in your words is only south of Irpin. So in range weapons in Bucha, for your understanding, are not at "front". What is utter nonesence.



jhungary said:


> They took Bucha, did it get Kyiv City within TOS range? No.



Sure Kiew would be in range of ToS if ToS were deployed in Bucha! Even the thermobarics have a range of 6 km. 



jhungary said:


> The front line is a line of contest, and the "Front" is the location of contest, you can argue I can nuke Kyiv or at least send a Ballistic missile toward Kyiv in a missile silo in Moscow, that does not make Moscow a "Front".



Sure it make this missile silo include into "front"! Cause it is in range and can impact. Or will you say that there is no "front" if two countries only exchange nuclear missiles? What does the word "confront" mean?



jhungary said:


> Also, you are talking about that stretch of land OUTISDE the city of Bucha, not inside, which render the entire point of whether you should tab ISTAR asset on Bucha pointless.



So you will say that ToS in Bucha cant reach the "stretch of land" between Irpin and Kiew?



jhungary said:


> Anything is a possibility, if you say something is "possible" you would have to back that up, as I said, you have to stupid to believe people are not going to plant or replant IED once you bomb the area, and also, you are not going to be able to use that road if you bomb it, you are then denying yourself that MSR, again, either show me I was wrong, or shut up about it.



No, not anything is possible. You can view vids from e.g. Aleppo to answer your question.


----------



## Viet

Ukraine presses Germany to deliver tanks. Ukraine army needs them urgently for the south and southeastern fronts. Will Germany deliver Leo 2?
Some in the German gov say yes. The opposition party says yes.
I think it’s just a matter of time.















Merz für Lieferung schwerer Waffen an die Ukraine


Die Ukraine kritisiert die Bundesregierung wegen ihrer Zurückhaltung bei Waffenlieferungen. Auch die Union fordert nun schwerere Waffen für das Land. Außenministerin Baerbock will "schauen", was möglich ist.




www.br.de

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## bobo6661

Ali_Baba said:


> New build - or from US stocks?


they say same as us army so the newest ?

Abrams M1A2 SEPv3​








Polska kupiła Abramsy


Szef MON Mariusz Błaszczak podpisał umowę na zakup 250 czołgów M1A2 Abrams SEPv3. Więcej informacji wkrótce.




defence24.pl





The head of the Ministry of National Defense, Mariusz Błaszczak, has signed a contract for the purchase of 250 M1A2 Abrams SEPv3 tanks. The contract value is approximately USD 4.75 billion net. The first 28 vehicles from the US Army will be handed over to the Polish Armed Forces later this year to start the training process. Deliveries will end in 2026.


----------



## OldTwilight

Viet said:


> Ukraine presses Germany to deliver tanks. Ukraine army needs them urgently for the south and southeastern fronts. Will Germany deliver Leo 2?
> Some in the German gov say yes. The opposition party says yes.
> I think it’s just a matter of time.
> 
> View attachment 830903
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Merz für Lieferung schwerer Waffen an die Ukraine
> 
> 
> Die Ukraine kritisiert die Bundesregierung wegen ihrer Zurückhaltung bei Waffenlieferungen. Auch die Union fordert nun schwerere Waffen für das Land. Außenministerin Baerbock will "schauen", was möglich ist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.br.de


using new tanks need extensive training for operational crew and some infrastructure for support crews to maintain tank ... 
it tank not economic car ..

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## Wood

Viet said:


> Ukraine presses Germany to deliver tanks. Ukraine army needs them urgently for the south and southeastern fronts. Will Germany deliver Leo 2?
> Some in the German gov say yes. The opposition party says yes.
> I think it’s just a matter of time.
> 
> View attachment 830903
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Merz für Lieferung schwerer Waffen an die Ukraine
> 
> 
> Die Ukraine kritisiert die Bundesregierung wegen ihrer Zurückhaltung bei Waffenlieferungen. Auch die Union fordert nun schwerere Waffen für das Land. Außenministerin Baerbock will "schauen", was möglich ist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.br.de


Some German people here may say no


----------



## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511400930364825605



There is a race on between these tanks turning up and being deployed and the Russians moving their tanks from their failed operations in the north to the Donbass and surrounding regions. Who ever completes first will get a big advantage.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511393437924401154
The 5th Column in US is hard at work


----------



## Viet

OldTwilight said:


> using new tanks need extensive training for operational crew and some infrastructure for support crews to maintain tank ...
> it tank not economic car ..


Not difficult to drive a Leo. There are official Youtube videos from the German armed forces. Even women with a driver license can drive the tank. Although the new Leo is the most heaviest tank ever.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511337128831197199
Czech Republic and Slovakia are planning to open their military complexes to repair and retrofit damaged Ukrainian equipment to send them back into service

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## gambit

jhungary said:


> That guy is, for the lack of word, a moron........I am sorry if that break the forum rule, but I can't find a better word for it.
> 
> ...and I am *running out of layman term trying to explain to him*....


I know how you feel. Unfortunately, people like us have to put up with people like him for the sake of informing everyone else. But I have to give him credit for being supremely confident in his ignorance and making military decisions based upon that ignorance.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510908231077531648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510908238677614598

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510908245568856067


----------



## gambit

Wood said:


> On a tangential note, I've realized now that Russia is a ethno-nationalist state. I've been watching excerpts from Russian state TV and some ad-hoc street interviews from Putin's support base in Russia. Almost every time, there is a direct or an allusory reference to the great Slavic nation whose time has come. Soviet union has not only seeded paranoia into Russia; it has also seeded an apparent desire to have some big racial union among old Russians. The Ukrainians have apparently not got the memo and are therefore bound to this fate one way or the other


When this Russia-Ukraine war is over, no matter the outcome, *ALL* countries will reassess this geopolitical 'neutrality' nonsense, and I have no problems using the word 'nonsense'. If you are weaker and/or smaller and live next door to a more powerful and aggressive neighbor, that neighbor will *NEVER* give you the option of neutrality. That neighbor do not need to express anything. He can just be silent about his intentions for you. But in his mind, your neutrality discourages others while being an invitation for him. Ukraine is an example of that. The Finns and the Swedes are studying the lesson. So are the Asians living next to China.

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## Viet

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510908231077531648
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510908238677614598
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510908245568856067


Some in Russia dream to send Ukraine population into gas chambers after victory.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511437157612859394

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511438617880801290

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511440190593712136

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## F-22Raptor

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511437157612859394
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511438617880801290
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511440190593712136




Complete and utter delusion

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511411340975513603

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511138799958507526
did he just call it war ??? isnt it like 20 year in prison in russia ?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511379329372102665

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511307949779660801this one suprising









Russia temporarily bans grain exports to ex-Soviet countries


Russia on Monday temporarily banned grain exports to ex-Soviet countries and most sugar exports, but a senior minister said it would keep on providing special export licences to traders within its current quota.




www.reuters.com





looks like the blackmail of "friendly" republicans started or is it a deeper supply problem

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511447088114118656

The Ukrainians will get 1000 Switchblade 300s and 100 Switchblade 600s

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## patero

F-22Raptor said:


> Complete and utter delusion


The part about Western companies leaving temporarily is interesting, they may actually believe that. Putins government clearly doesn't comprehend how badly their actions have been received in the west, and how toxic doing business with Russia has become. After re-evaluating the risk profile of conducting business with or in Russia, Western companies started to suspend or halt operations even before any sanctions were inacted, and they are also mindful of the optics of continuing to do business with Russia. 

With the size of the write-downs and Putins new laws to allow nationization of Western owned business assets in Russia, it's going to be a long time before Western companies return, even if Putin is somehow ousted from the Kremlin.

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## jamal18

patero said:


> The part about Western companies leaving temporarily is interesting, they may actually believe that. Putins government clearly doesn't comprehend how badly their actions have been received in the west, and how toxic doing business with Russia has become. After re-evaluating the risk profile of conducting business with or in Russia, Western companies started to suspend or halt operations even before any sanctions were inacted, and they are also mindful of the optics of continuing to do business with Russia.
> 
> With the size of the write-downs and Putins new laws to allow nationization of Western owned business assets in Russia, it's going to be a long time before Western companies return, even if Putin is somehow ousted from the Kremlin.


I believe that the French firms are staying.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

240 mm mortars in Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511449830094110720

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## Ich

jhungary said:


> That guy is, for the lack of word, a moron



...said the moron who insists that there is no "front" if two countries only use nuclear missiles cause nuclear missiles are not "at the frontline"


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511447088114118656
> 
> The Ukrainians will get 1000 Switchblade 300s and 100 Switchblade 600s



Not as good as Lancet.

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## jamal18

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> @Ali_Baba @bobo6661, 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511295302212411393


According to the Russians, the survivors of a marine battalion surrendered _en mass _ in Mariupol. The numbers are said to 250. Considering that they are said to have suffered 50% casualties, that seems to make sense numerically.

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511360246765215753
this would be funny if tru

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## sur

Victoria Nuland said, "F*** EU" 

US still importing fuel from Rus despite sanctions and making EU lick it's bottom.
"_Do more Europe, do more_"
*Sanctions don't take affect until 22-April*. Lets see what happens after 22nd.

Those who track oil tanker movements tell us that *tankers still taking Rusi oil to US*.
Some were diverted to Canada & from there to US.
Some transferring contents to other tankers before reaching a port.
Latest from them is that tanker travelling to US turned their transponders off temporarily (going stealth).


RT reported today that *last week US in fact increased the import volume from Rus by 43%*.  "F*** sheeple" should be Nuland's new catch phrase.






















sur said:


> There's feeding sheeple and then there's reality. Despite so-called sanctions on Rusi oil and financial assets:
> 
> 
> *Oil still flowing from Rus to US*. Search it. tankers are continuously travelling from Rus to US, some via Canada:
> *Rusi money **still being released* to creditors to whom Rus is making debt payments:
> Canada banned Rusi oil imports, which they *were not importing anyways* since 2019.
> Europe still getting fuel from Rus:
> Rus bringing US astronaut back & accepting *Canadian to ISS*:
> *EU/US/UK* despite hollow sympathies & crocodile tears, *refusing to accept Ukrainians whole heartedly (1)(2)(**3**)*. May be they came across clips of UA street justice system!!
> *Ruble is back almost to it's 24-Feb level (when invasion started),* after a knee-jerk drop.



They report that *Poland is the only country* who's practicing Rusi oil import ban in true sense (?)





Tai Hai Chen said:


> Why don't Germany send all their Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine if they want to fight a proxy war with Russia?


Because they don't want Ukraine to actually win.
They just want this fire to simmer for long time.


"*For *some in* NATO, it’s better for the Ukrainians to keep *fighting, and* dying, than to achieve a peace *that comes *too early*."


https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/04/05/ukraine-nato-russia-limits-peace/





Germany's Scholz says globalisation's phase of low prices is over​








Germany's Scholz says globalisation's phase of low prices is over


The phase of globalisation during which prices were low is over, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said on Wednesday. "I assume that the phase of globalisation is over during which everything is cheap because only a small part of the market is being served by the rest of the world," he told...




finance.yahoo.com

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## jamal18

US general captured in Mariupol?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511422341888290824

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## Paul2

Viet said:


> Not difficult to drive a Leo. There are official Youtube videos from the German armed forces. Even women with a driver license can drive the tank. Although the new Leo is the most heaviest tank ever.
> 
> View attachment 830910



Problem with tanks: crews. Driving is simple, and even simpler on NATO tanks — transmission is automatic, and there is steering wheel instead of levers, but you need 3 more trained crew members, all trained to do their own thing.

Koreans realise that - in an emergency, a single map can take full control of a K2 tank, including using computerised gunsight to do gunning on the move.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511392177053655046

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## jamal18

The Ukrainian SBU showing kindness to civilians. Also scroll down for more footage of murdering prisoners.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511301270820343809

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511435297468428300

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511408699293769731

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511408738586046465


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511436445982105608

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511434519739609090

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## Foinikas

bobo6661 said:


> Your so desperate that it really feels like your on a payroll


I'm sorry,but sometimes it feels the same about you. I know you're probably not,but...you know.

We all have different opinions,but we should look things a bit objectively and not rush to cheer or boo each side.

@Vergennes @F-22Raptor @jhungary @gambit Guys,relax. Don't take it out on @jamal18 @Hassan Al-Somal @Ich and @coffee_cup

We are different people,from different countries,nationalities and backgrounds. I keep seeing the chaos on this thread and it's ridiculous. Somehow the pro-NATO side makes extremely arrogant comments and mocks everything Russian. And the little bit more objective or the pro-Russian side as well,tries to show the other side of the story.

Both sides in this war use a lot of lies and big statements.

Again,I urge you to be more objective and not be aggressive or offensive to others. I know nobody's gonna care,but I'm tired of seeing all this crazy hostility here. At least,be respectful. Don't use derogatory names for leaders involved and don't blame all Ukrainians or all Russians.

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511435297468428300



Top attack munitions becoming widespread pretty much nullify MBTs, until a credible APS appears.

Koreans built their entire doctrine around a single munition — KSTAM. Sounded like lunacy 20 years ago, but totally making sense now.

In case of NorKo bum-rush with thousands of tanks, SK will fire thousands of KSTAMs in the first hour of invasion from K2s, SPGs, and submunitions, all directed through central computerised C&C.

Their tanks, SPGs, rocket artillery were all designed around it.

That's a truly prodigious of foresight.


----------



## LeGenD

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Not as good as Lancet.


How do you know? Russian hardware is typically more hype than substance.

Ukranians were able to handle Russian army with NATO-standard ATGMs and UAVs - limited stuff.

Imagine Russian army up against US/NATO itself. It would be a massacre of the former group. There was a DEMO in Syria in 2018 to this end.

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## Foinikas

LeGenD said:


> How do you know? Russian hardware is typically more hype than substance.


Yeah that part is true...I'm suspecting the S-300 and S-400 are like that. They make some of the best small weapons and AT systems,but I wouldn't want us to have Soviet/Russian jets instead of Western ones...it's...yeah,we need to get rid of those OSA-AKMs too


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511476184592236546

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## F-22Raptor

LeGenD said:


> How do you know? Russian hardware is typically more hype than substance.
> 
> Ukranians were able to handle Russian army with NATO-standard ATGMs and UAVs - limited stuff.
> 
> Imagine Russian army up against US/NATO itself. It would be a massacre of the former group. There was a DEMO in Syria in 2018 to this end.




Those giant Russian columns would be toast against US air power and guided rocket and self propelled artillery. 

A single pass of 3 B-2 bombers could launch over 200+ SDBs, which are not only guided but can hit moving targets as well. 

Does Highway of Death ring a bell?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511473679841910784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511453750942085120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511455724055896067

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511458306346262535

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511458534453649413
LMFAO


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511473311431024640


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511480181483098118

US next generation ICBM is named the LGM-35A Sentinel


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

LeGenD said:


> How do you know? Russian hardware is typically more hype than substance.
> 
> Ukranians were able to handle Russian army with NATO-standard ATGMs and UAVs - limited stuff.
> 
> Imagine Russian army up against US/NATO itself. It would be a massacre of the former group. There was a DEMO in Syria in 2018 to this end.



Not necessarily. I would put Kornet above Javelin, Metis M1 above NLAW, due to longer range. Lancet has 40 km range, more than Switchblade.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511410269360119811


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## LeGenD

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Not necessarily. I would put Kornet above Javelin, Metis M1 above NLAW, due to longer range. Lancet has 40 km range, more than Switchblade.


FYI









The world’s deadliest anti-tank missiles


Modern anti-tank missiles such as AGM-114R, Spike and Javelin provide armed forces with the capability to stop a heavily armoured tank in its tracks.




www.army-technology.com





Range is but one metric; technological sophistication matters. American UAV technology is very advanced, and numerous UAVs are extensively combat-tested as well.

Switchblade kamikaze UAVs have two models (300 and 600). 600 model has 40 KM range and 40 minutes of loitering capacity.









Switchblade® 600 Kamikaze Drones | Suicide Drone | AeroVironment, Inc.


AeroVironment's Switchblade 600 kamikaze drone redefines the next generation of extended-range loitering missiles, delivering unprecedented RSTA support and high-precision optics, over 40 minutes of loitering endurance, and an anti-armor warhead for engaging larger, hardened targets at greater...




www.avinc.com













Everything to know about Switchblades, the attack drones the US is giving Ukraine


These attack drones can fly like a small unmanned aircraft, but have an explosive charge on board to take out a target. Here's how they work.




www.popsci.com





Russian UAV technology is far behind. Russians are seeking Chinese UAVs instead.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511501382485958662

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

LeGenD said:


> Russian UAV technology is far behind. Russians are seeking Chinese UAVs instead.



Um, disagree. Plus, Russia has GLONASS GPS nav which is similar to China's Beidou GPS nav and America's GPS GPS nav.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511410269360119811



Seems like they will all be killed, if they are in the factory for real. Not to mention they have no food or water and have to live as cannibals.


----------



## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511501382485958662



This is around another 1,250 missiles


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> This is around another 1,250 missiles



Meh, Give Ukraine a million missiles. Or else it's not impressive.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511468928362459136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511469489149284356

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511469703935381507


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Alligator CAS helicopter


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511445042862477314
BTR-82A light tank shooting 30 mm autocannon


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511435706761101312
Russia backed separatists


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511433996525256712


----------



## The SC

Spoiler: Graphic



https://twitter.com/anatoliisharii/status/1511275400814604290


----------



## CAPRICORN-88



Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## The SC

Spoiler: Graphic



https://twitter.com/VeraVanHorne/status/1511301270820343809





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511230215757914118


----------



## CAPRICORN-88



Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511091161900978180


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511506304447266821

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510516812512964623


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511398258060443656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511393258370392079


----------



## fallschirmjager786

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511506304447266821


Hard to see how the russians are winning? They haven't even conquered Mariupol yet which is completely cut off. And word on the street is that they are ready to peace out of Kherson as well in order protect the roads to Crimea. 

Not to mention the debacle in the North. pretty embarrassing to loose the men and material they did in the battle for Kyiv with nothing to show for it and "strategic repositioning"


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511334992827371522
Is this drone or Javelin strike?


----------



## jhungary

Ich said:


> Here we go again with "frontline"  Which in your words is only south of Irpin. So in range weapons in Bucha, for your understanding, are not at "front". What is utter nonesence.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure Kiew would be in range of ToS if ToS were deployed in Bucha! Even the thermobarics have a range of 6 km.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure it make this missile silo include into "front"! Cause it is in range and can impact. Or will you say that there is no "front" if two countries only exchange nuclear missiles? What does the word "confront" mean?
> 
> 
> 
> So you will say that ToS in Bucha cant reach the "stretch of land" between Irpin and Kiew?
> 
> 
> 
> No, not anything is possible. You can view vids from e.g. Aleppo to answer your question.





Ich said:


> ...said the moron who insists that there is no "front" if two countries only use nuclear missiles cause nuclear missiles are not "at the frontline"


Now you progress toward Dumbass level. I am going to consolidate the reply to a single post because I lack the patient to deal with you anymore. 

I never said there are no Front, I said that line I draw in the previous Map is "Arbitrary", I used it to illustrate what is a Frontline loos like, then you go talk about how Artillery can rain down on your position and you need to know what's ahead and that's where the "Front" is. Then I retorted, you can send missile from 100 miles away, does that move the "Front" there?

At any time, any unit can be at the receiving end of Indirect Fire, does that mean I need to send ISTAR asset to cover the ENTIRE Range? What does it mean by Entire Range? It mean for example, a TOR-1A Launcher have a range of 10 km, which mean anywhere within the circle with me being the centre, extended outward to a radius of 10km can hit me. That's the definition of Range.

So, If you need to pick that up any TOS launcher that can hit you at a certain point, you will need to send ISTAR asset on the entirety of that area (The Area = Pi*R*R = 314 square kilometers) even if I say half that because I only have 180 degree front facing enemy, you are looking at 157 sqkm. With a scan resolution of 200mx200m, you are talking about 785,300 image to cover the entire area, and having it taken twice a day is pointless, stuff move on and they don't need 12 hours to move, you need to have at least once every hour, that's around 20,000,000 SAT Image you need to go thru a day to look at specific target that can reach me within that semi-circle, Good Luck going thru all that. And that's just for TOS-1A, Grad have a longer range (20.4km), which mean the circle you draw is a lot bigger which cover the twice the area of TOS-1A.

On the other hand, if I am at Irpin,* what make you think only Artillery in Bucha can get me*, Depends on where in Irpin you are, potentially a *TOS-1A launcher at Hostomel, Mykhailivka-Rubezhivka, Vorzel' and anywhere in between can hit me if I am on the Western side of Irpin, and Horenka, Vyshhorod, Novi Petrivtsi and anywhere in between those town can hit me if I am in Eastern Side of Irpin*. And we are talking about just TOS-1A. that list quadruple if we also include BM-21 Grad and 2S19 Msta..

Which mean why would I just send ISTAR asset in Bucha? Why not Hostomel? Why not Vorzel for example? Set aside the fact that *YOU WANT TO POSITION YOUR ARTILLERY ON THE OUTSKIRT OF YOUR RANGE*, not in the middle of it, which mean if Irpin is the place for contention, I would look at further out like Hostomel or Vorzel instead of Bucha for artillery piece. If we don't know there is a massacre there, Bucha have no to little intelligence value. And your "weapon Range" does not make sense, because those weapon don't need to be in Bucha to fire on you, if you are pushing in Irpin.

Dude, you have no idea how stuff work and you make stuff up on the go.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510528226451501059


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511393258370392079


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

fallschirmjager786 said:


> Hard to see how the russians are winning? They haven't even conquered Mariupol yet which is completely cut off. And word on the street is that they are ready to peace out of Kherson as well in order protect the roads to Crimea.
> 
> Not to mention the debacle in the North. pretty embarrassing to loose the men and material they did in the battle for Kyiv with nothing to show for it and "strategic repositioning"



Russia annexed Kherson. Ukraine will never get it back. Kherson is very heavily defended by anti tank missiles, MANPADS, Black Sea fleet ships, subs, planes.


----------



## The SC

Spoiler: Graphic



https://twitter.com/morphonios/status/1510447554726608900


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511342186322874378

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510449110205280262


----------



## Song Hong

They will then pay in Rubles?

The Greens are a bunch of morons.





__ https://www.facebook.com/RTnews/posts/10160778668094411


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511215562311020544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511211838045884418


----------



## jhungary

gambit said:


> I know how you feel. Unfortunately, people like us have to put up with people like him for the sake of informing everyone else. But I have to give him credit for being supremely confident in his ignorance and making military decisions based upon that ignorance.


lol, did you see his other post?

He put it like they can only hit Ukrainian in Irpin from Bucha and no where else....that's why Bucha must be under surveillance all the time.

That guy is nuts.....

And when I ask him how do you suggest you can travel on a road that you bomb the entire city in ruin, his reply was "I am not going to tell you as I may have to try it on Germany" LOL.

This guys is sure as hell funny, but as I said, I can only laugh so much, and I am starting to lose my patient on him.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511321953856012295

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510681914981683209
By not calling this war a war, Putin is limiting his own ability to mobilize man power. Many historians who write about World War 2 comment about Hitler's stupid mistakes. I'm sure that the historians of the future will cite this self deception as Putin's big mistake

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511321953856012295



China has the largest population and the smartest men in all of Afro-Eurasia. To go up against China is foolish. They will pay. You will see.



Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510681914981683209
> By not calling this war a war, Putin is limiting his own ability to mobilize man power. Many historians who write about World War 2 comment about Hitler's stupid mistakes. I'm sure that the historians of the future will cite this self deception as Putin's big mistake



For Putin, this is not a war. This is a game of killing and destruction. This is real world combat training for Russian military.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511506688179945472


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511482558449606658


----------



## StraightEdge

Russians actually keep barking, but bite less. if they said to sell energy in Rubles, they should stick to it. Saying, barking and not actually doing it in practise makes them look like weak sissies. Looks like Putin has a bunch of non-performing associates who simply are yes man and doesn't do any work. Otherwise they would have looked remotely competent as compared to their current situation.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510635133627514881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511302769164103686


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

_Why did UK who chairs the current UNSC rejected Russia request to convene a meeting to appoint independent investigations into all these allegations? _









Russian army raped woman and burned swastika on her body, Ukraine claims


Ukrainian MP Lesia Vasylenko said she felt "anger and fear and hatred" after seeing images of the woman's tortured body.




www.newsweek.com





A Ukrainian member of parliament has *claimed that Russian soldiers raped,* *tortured and killed a woman, burning a swastika in her body.*

But Russian soldiers at what appeared to be the scene of the same killing gave a different account and put the blame on Ukrainians.

The war crimes accusation is among the latest of many made by Ukrainians against Russia since it invaded in late February. *Russia has denied the atrocities and has accused Ukraine of staging them to win sympathy in the West.*

On Sunday, MP Lesia Vasylenko of the Holos party shared an image to her Twitter page of the woman she said had been killed.

"Tortured body of a raped and killed woman. I'm speechless. My mind is paralyzed with anger and fear and hatred. #StopGenocide#StopPutinNow," she tweeted. The tweet did not give more details.

*But journalist Patrick Lancaster, covering the invasion with Russian soldiers, recorded the body of what appeared to be the same woman with the same wound in a school basement in Mariupol. On March 27, he tweeted a video of the scene.

The Russian soldiers accompanying him said the school had been used as a military base for Ukrainian forces and the Azov Battalion, a Ukrainian nationalist volunteer group.*

_*Newsweek*_* has not been able to independently verify Vasylenko's or the Russian soldiers' claims.*

In the video, a Russian soldier says that upon retreating, Ukrainian forces dressed people in civilian clothing, then took their weapons and ammunition and headed to the city.

"Look how they did it. They left all their clothes here, changed the uniform to civilian clothes, and left to the city with weapons dressed in civilian clothes," the Russian soldier said, according to the YouTube caption translation.

"They've broken through everything here, all pouches, everything is empty. they took away all weapons and ammunition," the soldier continued as they walked through the school.

"Something burned down, something is left, something like this. Their warehouse burned down. These are remnants of weapons. Here are hand-held and other kinds of anti-tank grenade launchers, machine guns. Judging by the uniform found, it was National Guard and Azov."

When the soldiers and Lancaster reach the body, the soldier says Russian soldiers would not burn "fascist crosses" into civilians.

"Civilians, probably the ones who supported us. Obviously, she was stabbed, not by our guys, there are fascist crosses," he said.

"I don't know by whom. They were retreating, most probably it's a civilian. Our guys would not leave such crosses. Swastika, that's for sure."

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has repeatedly accused Russian forces of committing war crimes during the invasion of the country.

He held a press conference in the streets of Bucha on Monday and said Russians had executed civilians at close range in the city and had also committed other war crimes. The Kremlin has denied such allegations.

"These are war crimes and they will be recognized by the world as genocide," Zelensky said while speaking to the media on Monday.

"You are here today and can see what happened. We know of thousands of people killed and tortured, with severed limbs, raped women, murdered children. I think it is more than... this is a genocide."

_Newsweek_ has contacted Ukraine's Ministry of Defense and the Russian Ministry of Defense for comment.


----------



## The SC

Spoiler: Graphic



https://twitter.com/mi28nighthunter/status/1511041494920093699





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511016807422910477

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511008409985896448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511486446531710982

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511013810936504325


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511482681153970181

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511302186852040704

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510985678456336389


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511513442414379017


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511461493623050240
Destroyed Ukrainian Su-25 and possibly where the pilot was buried.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511477108811333634


----------



## The SC

General Mark Milley:

China and Russia have great military capabilities and are intent on changing the current world order.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511468937288036352


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> General Mark Milley:
> 
> China and Russia have great military capabilities and are intent on changing the current world order.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511468937288036352



Don't forget. China and Russia are center of The Old World. The New World is only secondary, it is not primary, and America is geographically very isolated.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511545191081160705

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511545191081160705



Romania fought on Nazi side in WW2. Romanians slaughtered lots of Jews.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511492580613431296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511462630107537409


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511528359062237191

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511415184488898562


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510095384109936650


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511266947287113730

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511464691020845057


----------



## Paul2

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511334992827371522
> Is this drone or Javelin strike?



I think just very skilled use of unguided artillery from <10km

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## KAL-EL

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Romania fought on Nazi side in WW2. Romanians slaughtered lots of Jews.



Romania was once home to the most powerful being on Earth. 

A being who to this day, might still be walking this Earth.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2


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## Clutch

beijingwalker said:


> View attachment 831000



India is definitely drawn on the wrong person....:


----------



## Paul2

KAL-EL said:


> Romania was once home to the most powerful being on Earth.
> 
> A being who to this day, might still be walking this Earth.



Emperror Franz Joseph's mummy?

A historical paradox — large empires were terrible losers. Even Rome, and Han rode out conflicts solely on economy, and ability to come back.

Historically, empires lost most terribly when they were on the defensive.


----------



## Clutch

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> @Ali_Baba @bobo6661, 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511295302212411393



Send them to Siberia....


----------



## KAL-EL

Paul2 said:


> Emperror Franz Joseph's mummy?
> 
> A historical paradox — large empires suck



Count Vlad Tepes Dracula

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2


----------



## Soldier35

Mariupol is 95% under the control of the Russian Army and Allied forces. The point in the battle for the city will be set at the Azovstal plant, the ring around it has shrunk. Russia will gain full military control over Mariupol in the coming days. Heavy artillery has already started firing direct fire, an ACS 2C3 "Acacia" with a 152-mm caliber firing direct fire was seen on the streets. The mass surrender of Ukrainian army soldiers began in Mariupol.






Footage of the shooting of the Russian Tor-M2 SAM at a Ukrainian UAV has been published. According to the calculation of the SAM, during the special operation in Ukraine, they fired 20 missiles, hit 11 targets, among them seven Bayraktar TB2 Turkish-made UAVs. "Tor-M2" is a representative of a new generation of short-range air defense systems.






The mass surrender of Ukrainian army soldiers began. On April 5, at night, 267 Ukrainian soldiers from the 503rd battalion of the 36th Separate Marine Brigade of the Naval Forces of Ukraine surrendered in Mariupol near the village of Sartana.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## kingQamaR

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> _Why did UK who chairs the current UNSC rejected Russia request to convene a meeting to appoint independent investigations into all these allegations? _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian army raped woman and burned swastika on her body, Ukraine claims
> 
> 
> Ukrainian MP Lesia Vasylenko said she felt "anger and fear and hatred" after seeing images of the woman's tortured body.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newsweek.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Ukrainian member of parliament has *claimed that Russian soldiers raped,* *tortured and killed a woman, burning a swastika in her body.*
> 
> But Russian soldiers at what appeared to be the scene of the same killing gave a different account and put the blame on Ukrainians.
> 
> The war crimes accusation is among the latest of many made by Ukrainians against Russia since it invaded in late February. *Russia has denied the atrocities and has accused Ukraine of staging them to win sympathy in the West.*
> 
> On Sunday, MP Lesia Vasylenko of the Holos party shared an image to her Twitter page of the woman she said had been killed.
> 
> "Tortured body of a raped and killed woman. I'm speechless. My mind is paralyzed with anger and fear and hatred. #StopGenocide#StopPutinNow," she tweeted. The tweet did not give more details.
> 
> *But journalist Patrick Lancaster, covering the invasion with Russian soldiers, recorded the body of what appeared to be the same woman with the same wound in a school basement in Mariupol. On March 27, he tweeted a video of the scene.
> 
> The Russian soldiers accompanying him said the school had been used as a military base for Ukrainian forces and the Azov Battalion, a Ukrainian nationalist volunteer group.*
> 
> _*Newsweek*_* has not been able to independently verify Vasylenko's or the Russian soldiers' claims.*
> 
> In the video, a Russian soldier says that upon retreating, Ukrainian forces dressed people in civilian clothing, then took their weapons and ammunition and headed to the city.
> 
> "Look how they did it. They left all their clothes here, changed the uniform to civilian clothes, and left to the city with weapons dressed in civilian clothes," the Russian soldier said, according to the YouTube caption translation.
> 
> "They've broken through everything here, all pouches, everything is empty. they took away all weapons and ammunition," the soldier continued as they walked through the school.
> 
> "Something burned down, something is left, something like this. Their warehouse burned down. These are remnants of weapons. Here are hand-held and other kinds of anti-tank grenade launchers, machine guns. Judging by the uniform found, it was National Guard and Azov."
> 
> When the soldiers and Lancaster reach the body, the soldier says Russian soldiers would not burn "fascist crosses" into civilians.
> 
> "Civilians, probably the ones who supported us. Obviously, she was stabbed, not by our guys, there are fascist crosses," he said.
> 
> "I don't know by whom. They were retreating, most probably it's a civilian. Our guys would not leave such crosses. Swastika, that's for sure."
> 
> Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has repeatedly accused Russian forces of committing war crimes during the invasion of the country.
> 
> He held a press conference in the streets of Bucha on Monday and said Russians had executed civilians at close range in the city and had also committed other war crimes. The Kremlin has denied such allegations.
> 
> "These are war crimes and they will be recognized by the world as genocide," Zelensky said while speaking to the media on Monday.
> 
> "You are here today and can see what happened. We know of thousands of people killed and tortured, with severed limbs, raped women, murdered children. I think it is more than... this is a genocide."
> 
> _Newsweek_ has contacted Ukraine's Ministry of Defense and the Russian Ministry of Defense for comment.



You can can investigate all you want, compile a vast amount of evidence and testimony, but it's all pointless. The person responsible is cowering in his nuclear proof bunker and unless we're either prepared to go in and get him or the Russian people turn on him, that's where he'll stay. The troops committing atrocities in his name will simply disappear back into Russia and never face trial. The world won't be safe until Putin is gone.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CAPRICORN-88

kingQamaR said:


> You can can investigate all you want, compile a vast amount of evidence and testimony, but it's all pointless. The person responsible is cowering in his nuclear proof bunker and unless we're either prepared to go in and get him or the Russian people turn on him, that's where he'll stay. The troops committing atrocities in his name will simply disappear back into Russia and never face trial. The world won't be safe until Putin is gone.


So in other words, you supports and agree to lynching based on mere hearsay.
Why bothers to have a Police Department leaving alone CSI. 

Please don't attempt to reply to me as I will adopt your methodology and prejudge you guilty as charged.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511463166265470979

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## patero

kingQamaR said:


> You can can investigate all you want, compile a vast amount of evidence and testimony, but it's all pointless. The person responsible is cowering in his nuclear proof bunker and unless we're either prepared to go in and get him or the Russian people turn on him, that's where he'll stay. The troops committing atrocities in his name will simply disappear back into Russia and never face trial. The world won't be safe until Putin is gone.


There is going to be a long period of recession and economic stagnation for Russia as it suffers for Putins mis-adventures. He'll likely stay in power until he dies, cowering in his fortresses and bunkers while his people suffer for their blind faith in a megalomaniacal and murderous dictator. Meanwhile their relevance to the world community diminishes as does any respect for not only Putins regime but for the Russian people. The pushback to the atrocities being commited continues to intensify-more sanctions, more countries supporting Ukraine, more weapons being sent.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Paul2 said:


> Problem with tanks: crews. Driving is simple, and even simpler on NATO tanks — transmission is automatic, and there is steering wheel instead of levers, but you need 3 more trained crew members, all trained to do their own thing.
> 
> Koreans realise that - in an emergency, a single map can take full control of a K2 tank, including using computerised gunsight to do gunning on the move.


From what I observe driving modern tanks are like driving Tesla. All computerized. Even firing on targets.


----------



## CSAW

*Related to the conflict :

=======================================*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509330157257039877


https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/1511289960862789635




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510591875811577865

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510455314369458178

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510507608272211969

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510215515045871616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511509746930655239


----------



## jamahir

kingQamaR said:


> You can can investigate all you want, compile a vast amount of evidence and testimony, but it's all pointless. The person responsible is cowering in his nuclear proof bunker and unless we're either prepared to go in and get him or the Russian people turn on him, that's where he'll stay. The troops committing atrocities in his name will simply disappear back into Russia and never face trial. The world won't be safe until Putin is gone.


"The world won't be safe until Putin is gone."

That's what NATO said about Saddam. Actually, the world won't be safe until NATO is gone. Enough of its terrorist activity.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## KAL-EL

Viet said:


> From what I observe driving modern tanks are like driving Tesla. All computerized. Even firing on targets.



Interesting..

So it would be fairly easy for Michael Knight's car K.I.T.T. then.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Paul2

Soldier35 is an Indian trollfarm falseflagger


----------



## unrequitted_love_suzy

Zelenskyy says wants Ukraine to become a ‘big Israel’​








Zelenskyy says wants Ukraine to become a ‘big Israel’


Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says the main issue for Ukraine after Russia’s invasion ends will be security.




www.aljazeera.com


----------



## Paul2

Paul2 said:


> Soldier35 is an Indian trollfarm falseflagger
> 
> View attachment 831015
> 
> 
> View attachment 831016



A word for word match to materiel from Indian Republic World (Arnob Ghoswami)

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## sammuel

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> So in other words, you supports and agree to lynching based on mere hearsay.
> Why bothers to have a Police Department leaving alone CSI.
> 
> Please don't attempt to reply to me as I will adopt your methodology and prejudge you guilty as charged.




And that is the only post on the matter that bothers you ?

I do not you see you bothered when so many here cling to this ridiculous claim , that the Russian who controlled the city for 3 weeks did not commit this act.

Instead they try to convince us that the Ukrainians in 24 hours shot more than 300 of their own , dumped more than 100 of them to a mass grave , with the sole purpose to framing the Russians .

With zero evidence to support this , and all evidence pointing exactly in the opposite direction. ( including photos , testimonies of so many and satellite images )

I agree with you an innocents before proven guilty . Yet I did not see you complain on all the other posts with the ridiculous charges made against the Ukrainians.

Where were your high standards than ?

Double standards if I ever one.


~


----------



## Viet

KAL-EL said:


> Interesting..
> 
> So it would be fairly easy for Michael Knight's car K.I.T.T. then.


Yeh the series is great I love it. Automatic driving, remote control by arm watch. Today reality. Who could have dreamed of.

Today battlefields soldiers can rely on machines. Making killing more effective.


----------



## Ich

jhungary said:


> No, Iprin is front, I am not the one who said it was 200 meters from Irpin, you are. I was saying if it is 200 meters apart, then it wouldn't be matter. The front is *South of Irpin*, where Ukraine were planning to punch thru, you don't suddenly attack North of Irpin, or South of Bucha, how are you getting there?
> 
> If I want to take Irpin, Why wold I put my ISTAR asset on Bucha? I would put it on Irpin, I am fighting in Irpin, i need to know what I am facing, where are the defence structure located, what type of firepower they have in the vicinity , not what 500meters to 4.6 km down the line (Which is the exact distant between south of Bucha to South of Irpin...which is the distant form the Red Line to the Black line)
> 
> View attachment 830877
> 
> 
> Like in this map, if I am in Ukrainian Position, which is the front line? The Black line or the Red Line?
> 
> You don't make plan from scouting the next town over, you make plan to scout the point of entry, the point of convergence. Both were not Bucha. I would tell you where it was but then I remember you have none Military Experience, and you know shit about tactical map and tactical situation.
> 
> Yeah, you have no answer, nice try. And you completely abandoned your "Bombing" argument.



Above you clearly said that Bucha isnt "front".


jhungary said:


> Now you progress toward Dumbass level. I am going to consolidate the reply to a single post because I lack the patient to deal with you anymore.
> 
> I never said there are no Front, I said that line I draw in the previous Map is "Arbitrary", I used it to illustrate what is a Frontline loos like, then you go talk about how Artillery can rain down on your position and you need to know what's ahead and that's where the "Front" is. Then I retorted, you can send missile from 100 miles away, does that move the "Front" there?



Above you tell that you never said that Bucha is no "front".

And this is why i said that you are rowing around. You change your position often.


----------



## coffee_cup

jhungary said:


> Now you progress toward* Dumbass level*. I am going to consolidate the reply to a single post because I lack the patient to deal with you anymore.



I wonder why mods keep tolerating this guy abusing all others who do not agree to his point of view? 

Others get warnings for far less.

@LeGenD @waz @WebMaster

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511624729790144515


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511631360754077699

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Ich said:


> Above you clearly said that Bucha isnt "front".
> 
> 
> Above you tell that you never said that Bucha is no "front".
> 
> And this is why i said that you are rowing around. You change your position often.



Dude, I am gonna say this one final time.

Bucha is NOT where the frontline lies, there are *NO FRONT*, this war is *NOT BIG ENOUGH* to have an entire Army Front. Do you know the operational TO&E for an entire Army? How many man, how many area have to cover to be able to organise an "Army Front"?

Let's recap, I said the Front is the Black Line, and then you said the "Line" is a few meter deep, then I said that was a an abritary line I used to illustrate what is front. Then you say did I see the land between Irpin and Bucha, you can launc TOS attack there, and I said you can launch missilee attack anywhere and not just Bucha.

I have always had 2 points.

*1.) What is the intelligence importance of Bucha you need to put a tab on it?
2.) If I am attacking Irpin, I will sent my ISTAR asset on Irpin.*

You on the other hand, is the one that jump around and around, from "*What about E373*" to "*What if I bomb the road so you can't lay mine*" to "*What about Bucha being 200 meters away from Irpin*" to "*What if I have a TOS missile firing at Ukrainian troop making a push*" 

All those does not answer the 2 point I raise. I did not change my position, you did not understand shit.

Come back to me when you have an answer to the 2 poitns I have made (in Red)


----------



## jhungary

coffee_cup said:


> I wonder why mods keep tolerating this guy abusing all others who do not agree to his point of view?
> 
> Others get warnings for far less.
> 
> @LeGenD @waz @WebMaster


Well, as I said, report me if you want, I have run out of word to describe this fella.

And you failed to see him insult me first.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511529560013082626
Some in the Z crowd are starting to see good sense


----------



## Viet

Soldier35 said:


> Mariupol is 95% under the control of the Russian Army and Allied forces. The point in the battle for the city will be set at the Azovstal plant, the ring around it has shrunk. Russia will gain full military control over Mariupol in the coming days. Heavy artillery has already started firing direct fire, an ACS 2C3 "Acacia" with a 152-mm caliber firing direct fire was seen on the streets. The mass surrender of Ukrainian army soldiers began in Mariupol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Footage of the shooting of the Russian Tor-M2 SAM at a Ukrainian UAV has been published. According to the calculation of the SAM, during the special operation in Ukraine, they fired 20 missiles, hit 11 targets, among them seven Bayraktar TB2 Turkish-made UAVs. "Tor-M2" is a representative of a new generation of short-range air defense systems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The mass surrender of Ukrainian army soldiers began. On April 5, at night, 267 Ukrainian soldiers from the 503rd battalion of the 36th Separate Marine Brigade of the Naval Forces of Ukraine surrendered in Mariupol near the village of Sartana.


Just wait
Mariupol not fallen yet
Ukraine army aims to break the siege.
Just viewing CNN as per the former US general Wesley Clark, Ukraine needs 500 tanks for the offensive.


----------



## jhungary

This is why you need to have infantry travel with tank. How a single Ukrainian tank ambush a column of Russian Armor and APC.

And this Ukrainian tank weren't really good, a good tanker in this situation can take out at least 4 Russian Armor, he (maybe it's a she? I don't know) took out just 2 with 2 to 3 misses.


----------



## gambit

coffee_cup said:


> I wonder why mods keep tolerating this guy abusing all others who do not agree to his point of view?


Maybe because he knows what he is talking about -- and you guys do not?

Gary is Army. Am Air Force. If you start poking around my area of knowledge and experience eventually I would reach the end of my patience with you.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511577931427971072

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511581128875937796

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511582754340683777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511584903086804997


----------



## Ali_Baba

More fake news by Russians on NATO forces in Mariupol









Desperate Russian claims US general captured destroyed by BBC expert


DESPERATE Russian claims that a US Lieutenant General has been captured in the Ukrainian city of Mariupol have been torn apart by a BBC expert.




www.express.co.uk

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511609176987820032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511612514257158148

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511615217532223488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511633169249812482

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511654644828712972

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511658818995851268


----------



## Paul2

Sumy — Russia lost an entire elite tank army to territorials sneaking in the bushes, Bakatars, and few Grads, and SPGs, while their aviation had free reign...

I would save this is more indicative of the fiasco than anything during this war yet.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Paul2

Ukraine captured Popasna after weeks of back, and forth — a major, but unnoticed gain.

The remaining defenders fell back eastwards, and are trying to retake it.

Russian armour regiments in the region have too much armour, and not enough infantry for urban firefights.

I guess they took diatance from Popasna, and will shell it now.

If they cannot though, that infantry can do a dangerous town hopping to capture Alchevsk — a big town on M04 highway, critically important for Russian resupply effort.


----------



## coffee_cup

gambit said:


> Maybe because he knows what he is talking about -- and you guys do not?
> 
> Gary is Army. Am Air Force. If you start poking around my area of knowledge and experience eventually I would reach the end of my patience with you.



He could be the president of the USA for all I care. This is not the point. There is always an option to ignore.

No need to insult others. Rules are rules.


----------



## Messerschmitt

After having seen the Russian army's quiet embarassing performance so far in Ukraine, just imagine how the Russians would likely perform in a conventional against a decent NATO member's army. I am talking about an army equipped with modern MBTs and IFVs instead of Soviet-era tanks, a capable IADS, 4.5th to 5th gen fighter jets, ELINT, SIGINT, SEAD/DEAD capabilities etc.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511669678296514565

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Messerschmitt said:


> After having seen the Russian army's quiet embarassing performance so far in Ukraine, just imagine how the Russians would likely perform in a conventional against a decent NATO member's army. I am talking about an army equipped with modern MBTs and IFVs instead of Soviet-era tanks, a capable IADS, 4.5th to 5th gen fighter jets, ELINT, SIGINT, SEAD/DEAD capabilities etc.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511669678296514565



NATO invaded Russia twice. Napoleon and Hitler. Both times NATO lost. Russia has never invaded NATO.


----------



## nufix

Viet said:


> Ukraine presses Germany to deliver tanks. Ukraine army needs them urgently for the south and southeastern fronts. Will Germany deliver Leo 2?
> Some in the German gov say yes. The opposition party says yes.
> I think it’s just a matter of time.
> 
> View attachment 830903
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Merz für Lieferung schwerer Waffen an die Ukraine
> 
> 
> Die Ukraine kritisiert die Bundesregierung wegen ihrer Zurückhaltung bei Waffenlieferungen. Auch die Union fordert nun schwerere Waffen für das Land. Außenministerin Baerbock will "schauen", was möglich ist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.br.de



With combat readiness that low, I doubt Germany will be sending tanks anytime soon. Furthermore, nobody in the Ukrainian army is accustomed to Leo 2 tanks and it would take weeks to make UA tankers accustomed to Leo 2.


----------



## Messerschmitt

Tai Hai Chen said:


> NATO invaded Russia twice. Napoleon and Hitler. Both times NATO lost. Russia has never invaded NATO.


You must be a bot or something.


----------



## Viet

nufix said:


> With combat readiness that low, I doubt Germany will be sending tanks anytime soon. Furthermore, nobody in the Ukrainian army is accustomed to Leo 2 tanks and it would take weeks to make UA tankers accustomed to Leo 2.


Not from the inventory of German army, that’s low, yes you are right. Merkel is a dreamer. She reduced the number of combat brigades to just one brigade. Now we are in shit. Putin knows it.

Krauss Maffei can produce the tanks Ukraine needs. However that will take months or years.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511623144301379587
lmao

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Ich

jhungary said:


> Dude, I am gonna say this one final time.
> 
> Bucha is NOT where the frontline lies, there are *NO FRONT*, this war is *NOT BIG ENOUGH* to have an entire Army Front. Do you know the operational TO&E for an entire Army? How many man, how many area have to cover to be able to organise an "Army Front"?
> 
> Let's recap, I said the Front is the Black Line, and then you said the "Line" is a few meter deep, then I said that was a an abritary line I used to illustrate what is front. Then you say did I see the land between Irpin and Bucha, you can launc TOS attack there, and I said you can launch missilee attack anywhere and not just Bucha.
> 
> I have always had 2 points.
> 
> *1.) What is the intelligence importance of Bucha you need to put a tab on it?
> 2.) If I am attacking Irpin, I will sent my ISTAR asset on Irpin.*
> 
> You on the other hand, is the one that jump around and around, from "*What about E373*" to "*What if I bomb the road so you can't lay mine*" to "*What about Bucha being 200 meters away from Irpin*" to "*What if I have a TOS missile firing at Ukrainian troop making a push*"
> 
> All those does not answer the 2 point I raise. I did not change my position, you did not understand shit.
> 
> Come back to me when you have an answer to the 2 poitns I have made (in Red)



Well, as i said in an answer to you some posts ago:

*Front is ALL what is in range and can impact.*

This is the General view. Whereas your view is a view out of a trench, only see some meters around you. 

I have no hope that you can adapt any higher.


----------



## Viet

Krauss Maffei says can do upgrade up to 7 pieces of Leo II tanks per month. In addition the company can quickly deliver infantry tanks Boxer, Puma and artillery worth 20 billion euros.
That’s not all for Ukraine certainly. Most go to the Bundeswehr.









100 Milliarden für die Bundeswehr - Chef des Münchner Panzerbauers KMW verspricht: „Wir können liefern“


Das Sondervermögen zur Verteidigung dürfte bei den deutschen Rüstungskonzernen für Freude sorgen. KMW-Geschäftsführer Ralf Ketzel hat jedoch auch Bedenken.




www.merkur.de


----------



## sammuel

Tai Hai Chen said:


> NATO invaded Russia twice. Napoleon and Hitler. Both times NATO lost. Russia has never invaded NATO.



Really ?

I can think of a few that where occupied by the soviets.

Starting with the most clear example of invading Poland in 1939. They share the responsibility with Nazi Germany in starting WW2.








~

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511666430713937927


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511679032181633030

Reactions: Like Like:
4


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## Ich

coffee_cup said:


> I wonder why mods keep tolerating this guy abusing all others who do not agree to his point of view?
> 
> Others get warnings for far less.
> 
> @LeGenD @waz @WebMaster



It doesnt bother me  I can see his level, so...


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Oniks land attack cruise missiles


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511628341832519683

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511626364973158401

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511625529081925633

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511624643567919106
Alligator and Havoc CAS helicopters


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511614843895361536


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

sur said:


> First Canada, and now Germany too ran out of spare parts:
> Sorry uncle sam, you're on your own:
> 
> Germany Says Army Warehouses Short Of Weapons; 'don't Have Enough To Supply To Ukraine'​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Germany says Army warehouses short of weapons; 'don't have enough to supply to Ukraine'
> 
> 
> German Army warehouses have hardly any weapons left to supply to Ukraine; therefore, supplying arms in the near future could be a problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.republicworld.com



Why don't Germany send all their Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine if they want to fight a proxy war with Russia?



Viet said:


> Ukraine needs 500 tanks for the offensive.



1970s T-72 are death traps. They cannot break the siege because of Russian anti tank missiles.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511669678296514565

Russia now with over 2,500 losses in 6 weeks.

Oryx backlog makes that number closer to 2,700.

Reactions: Like Like:
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1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

sur said:


> Because they don't want Ukraine to actually win.
> They just want this fire to simmer for long time.



For the US, war is profit. Americans love decades of war in Ukraine.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511672385753255940

Holy 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511672397946138630
This is a huge strike

Reactions: Like Like:
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1 | Wow Wow:
2


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511613086414819330


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511529461107200003

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511529466614321153
Gives good insight on how Ukrainians have been able to keep up with the resistance in Mariupol. These helicopter pilots are brave hearts

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511529461107200003
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511529466614321153
> Gives good insight on how Ukrainians have been able to keep up with the resistance in Mariupol. These helicopter pilots are brave hearts



Helicopters flying low are easy targets for MANPADS considering how slow and loud they are.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508541788797218825


----------



## sur

"*on 24 February, all men aged between 18 and 60 were banned from leaving the country [Ukraine]*."








‘I will not be held prisoner’: the trans women turned back at Ukraine’s borders


Trans women are reportedly being denied passage to safer countries, despite their legal status as women and the danger posed by Russia’s transphobic policies




www.theguardian.com






This explains many clips like following where *Ukrainians killed their own people, even own soldiers,* who were trying to leave, not willing to fight, or as in Bucha not wearing blue band or wearing a white band, or seen holding Rusi food aid:




sur said:


> Ukrainians executed escaping civilian - an Israeli :
> @sammuel
> _. . . several bullets were fired at his vehicle at a Ukrainian checkpoint and not by a Russian force . . . _
> View attachment 830339
> 
> View attachment 830344
> 
> View attachment 830345
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498377742949228554
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *A scene very similar to Bucha/Irpin images that are being alleged on Rus - only it's Ukrainian soldiers who are about to do something to individuals at gun point* :
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/abunin/status/1510682783781380096
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainians brutally attack & then shot their own civilian trying to escape
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine Neonazi shot civilian
> 
> 
> Ukraine Neonazi shot civilian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> odysee.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Ukrainians killing their own civilians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 830348
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ukrainian killed their own woman - carved Swastika with blood on her*:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Woman killed by Ukrainians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/politblogme/status/1510871011025117184
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainians killed a child and parents, while seriously injured two other children of the family:
> (src2)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Ukrainians killed their own children
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497326309114064903
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ukrainian soldier giving permission to kill civilians without a blue band in area where Rusi retreated recently *:
> *Second-tweet* has subtitles:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510750541869051907
> 
> 
> In areas of Rusi retreat, Ukrainians killing their own civilians under the ruse of "purging saboteurs":
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510698735554244612
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ukrainians attack those who were receiving aid*:
> Though poster blamed it on Rus, but it was a civilian looking car in parking lot that fired an RPG on those who were lined up.
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/elenaevdokimov7/status/1507560709919768584
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably killed for accepting food packets from Russians & not having blue bands:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Food parcels from Russians
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 830602
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ukrainians holding their own civilians at gun point*:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504913876080795648
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ukrainians executed their own soldiers by head shots*:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: UA executed own soldiers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1503132284202983426
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ukrainian soldier killed their own soldier*:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: UA soldier executed by their own Azov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/666_mancer/status/1503364595897057280
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More examples:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ZING. Widespread use of mobile DEW will make 99% of the world's existing military arsenal obsolete. Really good thread on new US Army air and missile defense capabilities, long range fires, and their organization. And new Multi Domain Task...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .






sur said:


> . . .
> *Ukrainian SBU in Dnipropetrovsk*.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/VeraVanHorne/status/1511301270820343809
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ukrainians with yellow band hanging a woman & a man*
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> MEDIA=twitter]1511361467588747271[/MEDIA]
> 
> 
> 
> *And more Ukrainian way*:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> MEDIA=twitter]1511365070852403202[/MEDIA]
> 
> 
> 
> . . .
> 
> View attachment 830869
> 
> 
> 
> It's all about mindset. There's plenty of clips of UA doing violence again their own civilians, some of which I posted few posts back.
> PoW who are already arrested, hands tied, are treated like this. If Russians started to reciprocate then it will be news, but UA doing it ignored:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Extremely Graphic - WARNING
> 
> 
> 
> MEDIA=twitter]1511096716203757574[/MEDIA]











Who exactly entered Bucha once Russian troops left?


The Bucha killings sparked worldwide outrage - and a mutual exchange of accusations from the conflicting sides. We bring you the timeline of events and who entered the town once the Russian troops lef...




odysee.com







https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/1511705297949134852

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

sur said:


> "*on 24 February, all men aged between 18 and 60 were banned from leaving the country*."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘I will not be held prisoner’: the trans women turned back at Ukraine’s borders
> 
> 
> Trans women are reportedly being denied passage to safer countries, despite their legal status as women and the danger posed by Russia’s transphobic policies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This explains many clips like following where *Ukrainians killed their own people, even own soldiers,* who were trying to leave, not willing to fight, or as in Bucha not wearing blue band or wearing a white band, or seen holding Rusi food aid:



Bad time to be a Ukrainian. You either get your life ruined by Americans or you get your life ruined by Russians. Either way, you get your life ruined.

Azov continues losing ground in Mariupol battle


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511687867902402560

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511529271725985792
More delusional comedy from Russian state media. The pundits are shocked that majority of Ukrainians do not want to join mother Russia

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jamahir

coffee_cup said:


> I wonder why mods keep tolerating this guy abusing all others who do not agree to his point of view?
> 
> Others get warnings for far less.
> 
> @LeGenD @waz @WebMaster





Ich said:


> It doesnt bother me  I can see his level, so...



There a two or three here who think their service in the military entitles them automatic superiority over others even if these two or three are wrong sometimes or always. I got a warning today. There are others who are not like that. For example @Irfan Baloch has done military service for Pakistan but he is a rational person and doesn't push his service record as the defining feature that should be accepted by all without question. He speaks from sensible thought.


----------



## Wood

Russians Need VPNs. The Kremlin Hates Them


VPNs are divided between trying to help Russians stay connected to the global web and steering clear of Putin’s messy politics.




www.wired.com





Russia has started blocking VPN services in the country. Over 20 of 'em have already been blocked. Only state propaganda allowed for the people in Russia

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## sammuel

~​
Pope kisses Ukrainian flag, condemns 'the massacre of Bucha'​








VATICAN CITY, April 6 (Reuters) - Pope Francis on Wednesday condemned "the massacre of Bucha" and kissed a Ukrainian flag sent from the town where tied bodies shot at close range littered the streets after Russian troops withdrew and bodies poked out of a mass grave at a church.

The deaths in Bucha, outside Kyiv, have triggered a global outcry and pledges of further sanctions against Moscow from the West.

"Recent news from the war in Ukraine, instead of bringing relief and hope, brought new atrocities, such as the massacre of Bucha," Francis said at the end of his weekly audience in the Vatican's auditorium.

*"Stop this war !** Let the weapons fall silent! Stop sowing death and destruction," he said, decrying cruelty against civilians, defenseless women and children.*

The Kremlin says allegations Russian forces committed war crimes by executing civilians including in Bucha were a "monstrous forgery" aimed at denigrating the Russian army.

Francis said the darkened and stained flag, which had writing and symbols on it was brought to him from Bucha on Tuesday.

"It comes from the war, precisely from that martyred city, Bucha," he said, kissing it and holding it up for the audience of several thousand, which broke into applause.


He then asked a group of children war refugees who arrived on Tuesday from Ukraine to come up to him.

"These children had to flee in order to arrive in a safe land. This is the fruit of war. Let's not forget them and let's not forget the Ukrainian people," he said, before giving each child a gift of a chocolate Easter egg.

Speaking in the earlier part of his audience about the post-World War Two period, Francis said: "In the war in Ukraine, we are witnessing the impotency of the United Nations".


During a trip to Malta at the weekend, Francis said he was considering a trip to Kyiv and implicitly criticised Russian President Vladimir Putin over the invasion of Ukraine, saying a "potentate" was fomenting conflict for nationalist interests.










Pope kisses Ukrainian flag, condemns 'the massacre of Bucha'


Pope Francis on Wednesday condemned "the massacre of Bucha" and kissed a Ukrainian flag sent from the town where tied bodies shot at close range littered the streets after Russian troops withdrew and bodies poked out of a mass grave at a church.




www.reuters.com












~

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511595604090236932


sammuel said:


> ~​
> Pope kisses Ukrainian flag, condemns 'the massacre of Bucha'​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VATICAN CITY, April 6 (Reuters) - Pope Francis on Wednesday condemned "the massacre of Bucha" and kissed a Ukrainian flag sent from the town where tied bodies shot at close range littered the streets after Russian troops withdrew and bodies poked out of a mass grave at a church.
> 
> The deaths in Bucha, outside Kyiv, have triggered a global outcry and pledges of further sanctions against Moscow from the West.
> 
> "Recent news from the war in Ukraine, instead of bringing relief and hope, brought new atrocities, such as the massacre of Bucha," Francis said at the end of his weekly audience in the Vatican's auditorium.
> 
> *"Stop this war !** Let the weapons fall silent! Stop sowing death and destruction," he said, decrying cruelty against civilians, defenseless women and children.*
> 
> The Kremlin says allegations Russian forces committed war crimes by executing civilians including in Bucha were a "monstrous forgery" aimed at denigrating the Russian army.
> 
> Francis said the darkened and stained flag, which had writing and symbols on it was brought to him from Bucha on Tuesday.
> 
> "It comes from the war, precisely from that martyred city, Bucha," he said, kissing it and holding it up for the audience of several thousand, which broke into applause.
> 
> 
> He then asked a group of children war refugees who arrived on Tuesday from Ukraine to come up to him.
> 
> "These children had to flee in order to arrive in a safe land. This is the fruit of war. Let's not forget them and let's not forget the Ukrainian people," he said, before giving each child a gift of a chocolate Easter egg.
> 
> Speaking in the earlier part of his audience about the post-World War Two period, Francis said: "In the war in Ukraine, we are witnessing the impotency of the United Nations".
> 
> 
> During a trip to Malta at the weekend, Francis said he was considering a trip to Kyiv and implicitly criticised Russian President Vladimir Putin over the invasion of Ukraine, saying a "potentate" was fomenting conflict for nationalist interests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pope kisses Ukrainian flag, condemns 'the massacre of Bucha'
> 
> 
> Pope Francis on Wednesday condemned "the massacre of Bucha" and kissed a Ukrainian flag sent from the town where tied bodies shot at close range littered the streets after Russian troops withdrew and bodies poked out of a mass grave at a church.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~



Lots of Nazis escaped to Argentina at the end of WW2. Pope Francis loves Nazis.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511723287566602243


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511669678296514565
> 
> Russia now with over 2,500 losses in 6 weeks.
> 
> Oryx backlog makes that number closer to 2,700.




Bedtime stories...

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511675047823523841


----------



## jamahir

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511529461107200003
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511529466614321153
> Gives good insight on how Ukrainians have been able to keep up with the resistance in Mariupol. These helicopter pilots are brave hearts



That picture was posted days ago and IIRC those two helicopters were carrying Nazis so stop your nonsense disinfo. Brave hearts my foot !

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511688416966197255

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## jamahir

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511723287566602243



@Wood, your brave heart Ukrainian military of Mariupol, committing crimes against Ukrainian civilians.  I don't know how you and your comrades are freely able to post your disinfo and lies on this thread and I get a warning.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511698450768961547


Wood said:


> Russians Need VPNs. The Kremlin Hates Them
> 
> 
> VPNs are divided between trying to help Russians stay connected to the global web and steering clear of Putin’s messy politics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wired.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has started blocking VPN services in the country. Over 20 of 'em have already been blocked. Only state propaganda allowed for the people in Russia





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511695168335925249

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511654526205542405

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## mmr

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511321953856012295




Putin the dumb moron giving Americans the best strategic victory in long time.

Now Nato will not only expand in Europe but in Asia too. Every one is re arming. good time for USA.

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## jamahir

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511688416966197255



@F-22Raptor, yesterday you told me about how Russians killed a cyclist in Bucha. What do you now say from the above vid of crimes done by the Ukrainian military against Ukrainian civilians including shooting a girl riding a scooter ?



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511654526205542405



Zelensky is enabling crimes by his military and also forgets the same military when its members die fighting for his aims.

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## mmr

Wood said:


> Russians Need VPNs. The Kremlin Hates Them
> 
> 
> VPNs are divided between trying to help Russians stay connected to the global web and steering clear of Putin’s messy politics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wired.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has started blocking VPN services in the country. Over 20 of 'em have already been blocked. Only state propaganda allowed for the people in Russia


good. getting close to become north korea. 


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511669678296514565
> 
> Russia now with over 2,500 losses in 6 weeks.
> 
> Oryx backlog makes that number closer to 2,700.


soon Russians will start using donkeys for transportation

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511637425549938691

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511652820474384387

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511528504373878785
*Igor Strelkov* is a Russian army veteran and former FSB officer who played a key role in the annexation of Crimea, and later the War in Donbas as an organizer of the DPR militant groups. See what he has to say about the great Russian commanders at the end of the video 



> Girkin led a group of militants into Ukraine where he participated in the Siege of Sloviansk. During the battle he increased his influence and ultimately became the de-facto military commander of all separatist forces in the Donbas region, which was confirmed by Donetsk People's Republic prime minister Alexander Borodai who appointed him as official Defense Minister



By all means, this guy is a bigger Russian nationalist than the Z fanboys in this thread

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## jamahir

@Apollon, read this post.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511682946582908930

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511734347048669191

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> GERMANY’S CHANCELLOR SCHOLZ: I BELIEVE THAT THE PERIOD OF GLOBALISATION WHEN EVERYTHING WAS VERY CHEAP IS COMING TO AN END.



I would not gloat of I where you.

Your country would be the first to suffer . It is always the weak and poor that suffer Most when there is a world crises. You can thank Putin for that.

War in Ukraine exacerbating food crisis in the Horn of Africa​*The impact of the war in Ukraine is worsening the devastating food crisis for millions of people in the Horn of Africa, Islamic Relief is warning.*

Around 14 million people in Somalia, Ethiopia and Kenya are already in urgent need of aid due to the region’s worst drought in almost 40 years. The failure of three successive rainy seasons has destroyed livelihoods and forced families to leave their homes in search of food and water.

Now, staple foods such as wheat are becoming increasingly scarce and expensive as trade routes from Ukraine and Russia are severely disrupted. Many countries in the region usually import 60-80 per cent of their wheat from Ukraine. With these imports disrupted, the price of bread and other staple foods is rapidly rising, affecting the poorest families most of all.

Aid agencies’ limited funds are being stretched further as prices rise. In Somalia, Islamic Relief has had to reduce the number of people receiving vital food deliveries at the start of Ramadan, because there is not enough funding to match the rising prices. One thousand families will not be able to receive food aid as a result.

*Aliow Mohamed, Islamic Relief’s Country Director in Somalia, has recently visited camps in Baidoa, where people have fled the drought to try and find aid. Islamic Relief teams in the camps are providing food and shelter. He said:*


_“We’ve had to reduce our food distributions by 1,000 families because of the drastic increase in food prices since the start of the Ukraine war. Prices have risen by 30 percent, and the cost of a 25kg bag of rice has gone up from $15 to $22._
_“Life inside the camps is tough, and some people do not eat for a day or two. People share the food they receive from aid organisations such as Islamic Relief because there isn’t enough aid for everyone. Last week a family told me that they did not eat for two days because their neighbours who used to give them food are no longer receiving aid. The situation is bleak._
_“Children and women are most affected. I met one woman who had walked for a month to reach the camp and she was eight months pregnant. We are seeing a rise in cases of child malnutrition as food becomes increasingly expensive.
“Islamic Relief provides families with cash assistance so they can buy food in the local markets. $70 a month used to cover the basic food needs for a family of six people – now, because of rising prices, families need at least $100 a month.”_


Islamic Relief is calling on international governments to act quickly and support efforts to address the growing hunger crisis in the region.

In Ethiopia, the drought and internal conflict has left huge numbers of people in need of food aid. Millions of people from the east of the country have had to migrate to the capital Addis Ababa to try and escape the drought, straining the city’s limited resources. Now the impact of the Ukraine crisis is pushing even more people into destitution.



the rest here :









War in Ukraine exacerbating food crisis in the Horn of Africa - Ethiopia


News and Press Release in English on Ethiopia and 4 other countries about Agriculture, Food and Nutrition, Drought and more; published on 4 Apr 2022 by Islamic Relief




reliefweb.int






~

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

mmr said:


> Putin the dumb moron giving Americans the best strategic victory in long time.
> 
> Now Nato will not only expand in Europe but in Asia too. Every one is re arming. good time for USA.



If NATO has foothold in Asia, then China + Russia form mutual security alliance.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511712280299421706


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511730321305354245

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511732146024689671


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511712280299421706

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511712068545699842

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511674623343140867

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## mmr

Tai Hai Chen said:


> If NATO has foothold in Asia, then China + Russia form mutual security alliance.



China and russia already has agreement.

And its not IF...nato will definitely be in asia pacific since Russia is no longer a threat. As i said putin is helping Americans in a way no us administration were able achieve in last 2 decades.

Nato plus japan Australia and if others in asia also joins...it will be massive military power.

And It will be naive to think nato only target is russia but not china.


----------



## Wood

New sanctions


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russians captured more Javelins in Izyum. Reverse engineer and make thousands for their own use.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511728894734385159
@F-22Raptor @gambit

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511747382932918275

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511747937382117382

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511748057225904128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511748153883693056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511748261815717896


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511638502827565059

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## jamal18

Tai Hai Chen said:


> For the US, war is profit. Americans love decades of war in Ukraine.


The recent statements by the Nato chief and senior US figures show that they don't want a short war. They want this to go on for a decade. They will discourage Zelenski to reach an agreement, and bleed the Russians to the last Ukrainian.

False flags like Bucha are meant to galvanise the Western populance to support this 'noble' cause i.e. the total destruction of the Ukraine essentially at the hands of Nato.

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Nope, food crisis in the Horn of Africa was caused by the long-running civil war. Now, that war is coming to an end, the farmers are going to be farming again provided there is enough rain.



I see , so you know better than the person actually distributing the food :

( great Logic : the whole world suffers from rising prices yet Somalia is somehow not effected. )

*“We’ve had to reduce our food distributions by 1,000 families because of the drastic increase in food prices since the start of the Ukraine war "*

*( Aliow Mohamed, Islamic Relief’s Country Director in Somalia )*




Hassan Al-Somal said:


> because of the *Holohaux *farce will dry up.




Million murdered is a " farce to you " . A holocausts denier as well.

You should really stick to copying and pasting stuff , cause every time you open your mouth you reveal what you are all about.


~


~


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511748363544416256

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jamal18 said:


> The recent statements by the Nato chief and senior US figures show that they don't want a short war. They want this to go on for a decade. They will discourage Zelenski to reach an agreement, and bleed the Russians to the last Ukrainian.
> 
> False flags like Bucha are meant to galvanise the Western populance to support this 'noble' cause i.e. the total destruction of the Ukraine essentially at the hands of Nato.



Ukraine don't dare launch an attack on Russia proper because they know the consequence. Russia is not damaged by this conflict. Only Ukraine is. And don't forget. Russia is nothing but China's lapdog these days. China has 10 times the population of Russia.



jamal18 said:


> False flags like Bucha are meant to galvanise the Western populance to support this 'noble' cause i.e. the total destruction of the Ukraine essentially at the hands of Nato.



In Western law, innocent unless proven guilty.


----------



## jamal18

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia is not damaged by this conflict.


A long conflict will bleed Russia. One scenario is that all this is designed to cause regime change in Moscow and the Balkanisation of Russia like Libya.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Mariupol center








jamal18 said:


> A long conflict will bleed Russia. One scenario is that all this is designed to cause regime change in Moscow and the Balkanisation of Russia like Libya.



No damage is done to Russia in this conflict. Russia only gains by having more real world combat experience. The only loser is Ukraine.

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## Trango Towers

jamal18 said:


> A long conflict will bleed Russia. One scenario is that all this is designed to cause regime change in Moscow and the Balkanisation of Russia like Libya.


The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have pretty much ended. The weapons makers needed orders. What better way.

Look at 100 billion euro orders from Germany alone

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Trango Towers said:


> The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have pretty much ended. The weapons makers needed orders. What better way.
> 
> Look at 100 billion euro orders from Germany alone



Same with Russia. Russia is manufacturing thousands and thousands of anti tank missiles to slaughter Ukrainians. War makes money. Money makes the world go around.


----------



## Trango Towers

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Same with Russia. Russia is manufacturing thousands and thousands of anti tank missiles to slaughter Ukrainians. War makes money.


Yes and slaughter of civilians is down by everyone.

Iran Afghanistan Palestine all done by the west. Ps Ukraine had the 3rd largest contingent in Iraq. They didn't exactly go there to give biscuits

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511753191616135174

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Trango Towers said:


> Yes and slaughter of civilians is down by everyone.
> 
> Iran Afghanistan Palestine all done by the west. Ps Ukraine had the 3rd largest contingent in Iraq. They didn't exactly go there to give biscuits



Ukrainians are barbaric, just like Russians.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511663928237035526

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511733030981111808

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511752907930181646

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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511753191616135174



Very solid position they got to threaten Kherson they got just by doing motorised drops.

They deny all the potential surprise moves to Russians for the time when they will move on the city.

They are doing it by the book.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511709499857543169

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511752907930181646




Mauripol has been getting resupplied for weeks by Ukrainian helicopters flying very low altitudes.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511752907930181646





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511633890808578051


----------



## jamal18

Trango Towers said:


> The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have pretty much ended. The weapons makers needed orders. What better way.
> 
> Look at 100 billion euro orders from Germany alone


' They used to make arms to fight wars. Now they fight wars to make arms.'

Corporate America.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> Mauripol has been getting resupplied for weeks by Ukrainian helicopters flying very low altitudes.



Fake.

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## OldTwilight

look like russian army main problem is lack of moral among its troops ...

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Paul2 said:


> Very solid position they got to threaten Kherson they got just by doing motorised drops.
> 
> They deny all the potential surprise moves to Russians for the time when they will move on the city.
> 
> They are doing it by the book.



Can't take Kherson.


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## mmr

OldTwilight said:


> look like russian army main problem is lack of moral among its troops ...


thanks captain obvious


----------



## jamal18

Trango Towers said:


> Yes and slaughter of civilians is down by everyone.
> 
> Iran Afghanistan Palestine all done by the west. Ps Ukraine had the 3rd largest contingent in Iraq. They didn't exactly go there to give biscuits


Karma's a bitch!

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## Hassan Al-Somal

🇷🇺🇺🇦Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

▫️The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine.

💥High-precision ground-based missiles in Donetsk Region destroyed the command post of Ukraine's 56th Separate Motorized Infantry Brigade near Novogrodovka, as well as a nationalist base in Grodovka.

💥High-precision air-based missiles in Kharkov Region destroyed a fuel depot near Chuguev from which fuel was supplied to Ukrainian troops.

💥In addition, a concentration of foreign-made weapons and military equipment supplied to the Ukrainian Armed Forces was destroyed at Lozovaya railway station in Kharkov Region.

✈️💥During the day, operational-tactical aviation hit 34 military assets of Ukraine. Among them: 1 artillery battery, 2 logistics depots, and 9 strong points and areas of Ukrainian military equipment concentration.

💥Russian anti-aircraft defence means shot down Bayraktar TB-2 unmanned aerial vehicle near Taranovka, Kharkov Region.

📊In total, 125 Ukrainian aircraft and 93 helicopters, 408 unmanned aerial vehicles, 227 anti-aircraft missile systems, 1,987 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 216 multiple launch rocket systems, 862 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,888 units of special military vehicles were destroyed during the operation.

❗️According to confirmed information, the Ukrainian special services are preparing a serious provocation using poisonous substances in Pervomayskiy, Kharkov region.

▫️Security Service of Ukraine has mined a storage facility containing 120 tonnes of chlorine on the territory of the Khimprom production association.

▫️This storage facility is planned to be blown up in order to accuse Russia of allegedly causing a chemical disaster, which caused the death of local residents.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing 
@mod_russia_en

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## OldTwilight

mmr said:


> thanks captain obvious


morale can be boosted in short time ... equipment and training , not ...


----------



## Trango Towers

Russian media is very poor in this war.
Pakistan did a better job during Feb 26 and 27

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## jamal18

BBC propoganda at work.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511713637672660999

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511759396996583437


----------



## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You can dance around all you want, but this world-wide conflict is on your own making. Just like World War I and II, this conflict is your own making.



Sure ,it is us that invaded Ukraine not Putin.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511780666006020099


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511759000429289472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511759324057587716

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511759475677532164

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511760002884771853

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russian air force Inokhodets drone attacking Ukrainian vehicle


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511766317770149892
Russians bomb railway station in Kharkiv


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511761198659817481
Russian army 208 mm self propelled howitzer firing at Ukrainian position


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511737780191346693
Russian air force Su-25 CAS jets


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511723482073255941

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511530246654373891
The delusion never ends

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## Trango Towers

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511759000429289472
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511759324057587716
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511759475677532164
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511760002884771853


What are they going to do go to Russia and arrest them.

US couldn't identify those responsible for Abu gharaib even though there was huge amounts of photographic evidence. US is the problem

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511792576667525124

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## gambit

The VKS is a failure and a joke of an air force. The Russian Army resorts to terror tactics against civilians. Russia is economically damaged. Poutine finally realized how deluded he has been. And China is slow walking away.

I guess we can leave this thread to all the Russia defenders to do whatever they can to salvage face for Russia.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Kraetoz

Why is Ruble back to normal?


----------



## jamal18

Kraetoz said:


> Why is Ruble back to normal?


Sanctions aren't working.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## SQ8

gambit said:


> The VKS is a failure and a joke of an air force. The Russian Army resorts to terror tactics against civilians. Russia is economically damaged. Poutine finally realized how deluded he has been. And China is slow walking away.
> 
> I guess we can leave this thread to all the Russia defenders to do whatever they can to salvage face for Russia.


The VKS was the true overhyped “disappointment” for military enthusiasts, even my local flying school has better organization.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## coffee_cup

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511780666006020099



@Apollon Thats 3 now. 

Why more and more countries are agreeing to pay in Ruble?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

gambit said:


> The VKS is a failure and a joke of an air force. The Russian Army resorts to terror tactics against civilians. Russia is economically damaged. Poutine finally realized how deluded he has been. And China is slow walking away.
> 
> I guess we can leave this thread to all the Russia defenders to do whatever they can to salvage face for Russia.



The Russian forces are absolutely worthless. US forces of Desert Storm would crush them. 

Killing civilians and destroying civilian infrastructure in mass indiscriminate shelling and bombings are the only tactics they know how to utilize. 

A worthless military


----------



## oberschlesier

Kraetoz said:


> Why is Ruble back to normal?


Capital control. It`s hardly normal.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Kraetoz

oberschlesier said:


> Capital control. It`s hardly normal.


It's back to where it was pre invasion and sanctions, hence normal.


----------



## oberschlesier

Kraetoz said:


> It's back to where it was pre invasion, hence normal.


On the moscow stock market with capital control and exchange limitations. This is not market value, but fixing by the Central Bank.


----------



## nang2

oberschlesier said:


> On the moscow stock market with capital control and exchange limitations. This is not market value, but fixing by the Central Bank.


It is still a market value. Just not a FREE market value. With sanctions, market isn't free anyway.

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## oberschlesier

nang2 said:


> It is still a market value. Just not a FREE market value. With sanctions, market isn't free anyway.


That is why this is hardly normal. You cannot compare this to pre invasion, different situation.

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510787954213625857


----------



## mmr

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511789893965520898
Lol rich Russians cant get enough of west but also hates west

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511808852278263810

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511774498449731596


----------



## mmr

*A small number of Ukrainian soldiers received drone training in the US, said the Pentagon today*, reported AFP.



> A small group of Ukrainian soldiers who were already in the United States before Russia’s invasion of their country are being trained to use the deadly Switchblade drones Washington is supplying to Kyiv, a Pentagon official said Wednesday.
> “A very small number of Ukrainians... were already here in the United States going through some professional military education,” the senior defense official said, requesting anonymity.
> “We took advantage of the opportunity to pull them aside for a couple of days and provide them some training, particularly on the Switchblade (drones) that is a system that is not organic to the Ukrainian military,” he said.
> The group, made up of “less than a dozen” people, “will be heading back into Ukraine relatively soon” as originally planned, he added...

Reactions: Love Love:
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## The SC

nang2 said:


> It is still a market value. Just not a FREE market value. With sanctions, market isn't free anyway.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511701721449443330

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511804871187517453


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511724247789547520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511725562225733641


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511729349204103170

Reactions: Like Like:
4 | Love Love:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511448298263035909

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511710786267521032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511443120201809929


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511761826408771596

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511153061552693252


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511725315072176130

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511434176356134914


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511715339066818566

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511806975973154817


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511793609321893888*

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511757008319520772


----------



## K_Bin_W

Worth watching

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511754002475761670

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511813283967287301


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511809002866282497

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511809218000527362

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511810875631362049

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511811910789828608

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511813047114817539

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511813721114365953

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511773597211279360

Reactions: Love Love:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511824718877257730

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511826443885449217

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511828403409731587

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511832410756816897


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511828404806590471


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511812712887689224

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511752538017738756


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511788088510619655


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511767530486046724


----------



## Trango Towers

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511767530486046724


What human rights..


Does no one see

Palestine
Libya
Syria 
Iraq
Kashmir


Oh white blonde blues eyed humans only

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## That Guy

Trango Towers said:


> What human rights..
> 
> 
> Does no one see
> 
> Palestine
> Libya
> Syria
> Iraq
> Kashmir
> 
> 
> Oh white blonde blues eyed humans only


This is exactly why I'm disgusted by brown people being emotionally invested in this white war.

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## nangyale

That Guy said:


> This is exactly why I'm disgusted by brown people being emotionally invested in this white war.


Are you having a mea culpa moment

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## That Guy

nangyale said:


> Are you having a mea culpa moment


No, merely reiterating my stance from the very beginning of this conflict.

It's a white man's war, I'm just glad they aren't killing brown people.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511820827649617926


----------



## nangyale

That Guy said:


> No, merely reiterating my stance from the very beginning of this conflict.
> 
> It's a white man's war, I'm just glad they aren't killing brown people.


You have been supporting one side from day one.
Don't play so innocent, people can see through your fake neutrality.

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## jeremybentham

This thread seems to have about an equal number of Ukraine and Russia supporters. What do you guys think Russia's end-game is? 
a. Annex Ukraine and make it part of Russia, 
b. Replace Zelinsky with a pro-Russia Ukranian leader, 
c. Leave Ukraine after "teaching it a lesson", 
d. ???


----------



## That Guy

nangyale said:


> You have been supporting one side from day one.
> Don't play so innocent, people can see through your fake neutrality.


Lol, I've been trolling the pro-Russians, yes. However, that doesn't really mean I'm taking either side.

I don't need to prove myself to you. And honestly, it's pathetic you care so much about my opinion that you've taken the time put of your day to try and attack me over meaningless internet comments.

By the way, from the very beginning, I was saying the Russians would win, it's just hilarious to me about how wrong I was about it.

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## Trango Towers

That Guy said:


> This is exactly why I'm disgusted by brown people being emotionally invested in this white war.


I couldn't care less. 

Logically. Ukraine is an independent country and Russia should not have invaded.

Now they are fighting. F them both. Russia invaded Afghanistan and did heinous crimes. Russia helped India in 71.
Ukrainians were bastard in chechenya and also the 3rd largest contingent in Iraq and significant in Afghanistan. 
Popcorn moment.

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## That Guy

jeremybentham said:


> This thread seems to have about an equal number of Ukraine and Russia supporters. What do you guys think Russia's end-game is?
> a. Annex Ukraine and make it part of Russia,
> b. Replace Zelinsky with a pro-Russia Ukranian leader,
> c. Leave Ukraine after "teaching it a lesson",
> d. ???


At this point, Russia's just gonna try and go for the east of Ukraine. If they can manage that, they'll come out looking like the winners.

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511820827649617926




Kherson is next to be liberated

Reactions: Love Love:
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## That Guy

Trango Towers said:


> I couldn't care less.
> 
> Logically. Ukraine is an independent country and Russia should not have invaded.
> 
> Now they are fighting. F them both. Russia invaded Afghanistan and did heinous crimes. Russia helped India in 71.
> Ukrainians were bastard in chechenya and also the 3rd largest contingent in Iraq and significant in Afghanistan.
> Popcorn moment.


Lol, I agree.

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## CAPRICORN-88

sammuel said:


> And that is the only post on the matter that bothers you ?
> 
> I do not you see you bothered when so many here cling to this ridiculous claim , that the Russian who controlled the city for 3 weeks did not commit this act.
> 
> Instead they try to convince us that the Ukrainians in 24 hours shot more than 300 of their own , dumped more than 100 of them to a mass grave , with the sole purpose to framing the Russians .
> 
> With zero evidence to support this , and all evidence pointing exactly in the opposite direction. ( including photos , testimonies of so many and satellite images )
> 
> I agree with you an innocents before proven guilty . Yet I did not see you complain on all the other posts with the ridiculous charges made against the Ukrainians.
> 
> Where were your high standards than ?
> 
> Double standards if I ever one.
> 
> 
> ~


Can you prove any of these?

You can't and I don't care.

Heavy artilleries fired at the Russian encirclement in the suburbans of Kiev are likely to inccur lost of innocent human lives.
Didn't the Ukrainian boasted about it and shown it in their video?
These are residential areas. Based on my understanding, these are not the main battle zones but attempts by Ukranian Army to break free.

Example.
Many of these outrageous claims of atrocities and victories originated from the Ukrainian authority.
The Russian soldiers are not allowed to carry mobile phones and all communiques are thru official channels.

I don't see any evidences to corroborate these fantastic made believe stories and video by pro-UKR fanboys
YET
*during the ongoing peace dialogue between Ukraine and Russia, I only see concessions after concessions made by the Ukrainian negotiators while the the Russia did not backpedalled on their demands. *

This does not makes any sense to me since Ukraine claimed that they are winning BIG.

*Meanwhile in Mariupol, more surrenders of Ukrainian troops have been reported and 2 more Ukrainian helicopters have been shot down apparently in an attempt to save a top AZOV neo-nazi commander trapped in Azovstal Steelworks. 
Out of fresh water, food and ammunition, the situation of these Azov neo-nazi battalion must be very desperate. *

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## PakFactor

Trango Towers said:


> I couldn't care less.
> 
> Logically. Ukraine is an independent country and Russia should not have invaded.
> 
> Now they are fighting. F them both. Russia invaded Afghanistan and did heinous crimes. Russia helped India in 71.
> Ukrainians were bastard in chechenya and also the 3rd largest contingent in Iraq and significant in Afghanistan.
> Popcorn moment.





That Guy said:


> Lol, I agree.



It’s what I have been saying since the beginning we should just sit back, relax and eat pop corn. No need to be sentimental because if this was reversed the Ukrainians wouldn’t give two shits. As a smart Chinese member on here said let them keep fighting on that continent why stop them this way the guns don’t turn on us, to my Pakistanis learn from the Chinese.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## K_Bin_W

jeremybentham said:


> This thread seems to have about an equal number of Ukraine and Russia supporters. What do you guys think Russia's end-game is?
> a. Annex Ukraine and make it part of Russia,
> b. Replace Zelinsky with a pro-Russia Ukranian leader,
> c. Leave Ukraine after "teaching it a lesson",
> d. ???



C.. SO that Ukraine never things of becoming NATO


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Trango Towers said:


> What human rights..
> 
> 
> Does no one see
> 
> Palestine
> Libya
> Syria
> Iraq
> Kashmir
> 
> 
> Oh white blonde blues eyed humans only



Bashar Assad has blue eyes and white skin and black hair, like Adolf Hitler.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511821203304030210


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511848880442281984


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511865198705057792


----------



## LeGenD

Russia’s Bucha ‘Facts’ Versus the Evidence - bellingcat


Open source evidence appears to contradict Russian claims of elaborate fakes in Ukrainian town where dead bodies were found strewn across street.




www.bellingcat.com

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511825268444442627

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511778519608696839

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511711288132517889

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511718561798135808


----------



## LeGenD

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511711288132517889


Maybe have a look at sources outside questionable Twitter handles?

See my post above.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511387852365606915

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511396134861910019


LeGenD said:


> Maybe have a look at sources outside questionable Twitter handles?
> 
> See my post above.


They say China TV.. it is providing another view on the massacre..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511795105660817420
As far as I'm concerned.. I'll wait for international independent investigations to come up with the truth.. I'm not biased to either side..


----------



## Abid123

Vergennes said:


> US/NATO are already providing Ukraine with weapons that are killing and wounding thousands of Russian soldiers yet they can't do sh/t. Just hot air.


That's how proxies work. Example below









1983 Beirut barracks bombings - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





58 french soldiers killed by Iranian involvement. Yet France did not do shit. Just hot air...

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## Wood

jeremybentham said:


> This thread seems to have about an equal number of Ukraine and Russia supporters. What do you guys think Russia's end-game is?
> a. Annex Ukraine and make it part of Russia,
> b. Replace Zelinsky with a pro-Russia Ukranian leader,
> c. Leave Ukraine after "teaching it a lesson",
> d. ???


Putin and Russia have been transparent about their desired endgame all along.

During the beginning of war, it was a and b from your list. But now this has evaporated. The revised endgame is the sustainability of Crimea and Donbass under Russian control. I think best case outcome that Russians hope for is to take Ukrainian coast line and connect Transnistria with Crimea and Donbass. 

I personally expect the Russian goal post to shrink again


----------



## The SC

Map of unfriendly countries endorsed by Russia..








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511825848382496774

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511835495541604357

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511814158832054281


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511865198705057792



Bad logic. For ever Javelin the US makes, Russia makes 10 Kornet. For every NLAW the UK makes, Russia makes 10 Metis M1. Russia makes far more anti tank missiles than the US and the UK can send to Ukraine.


----------



## Wood

Russian people react to Bucha


----------



## LeGenD

The SC said:


> They say China TV.. it is providing another view on the massacre..
> 
> As far as I'm concerned.. I'll wait for international independent investigations to come up with the truth.. I'm not biased to either side..


Chinese support Russians in this war.









Russia-Ukraine war: In Chinese media, the US is the villain


In tightly-controlled media space, conflict is an opportunity for Beijing to advance its ‘information proxy war’.




www.aljazeera.com





I posted a source which exposes Russian disinformation about Bucha. Maybe take a look at it?

Denials can be repeated by any number of sources and repeatedly posted here by different members. Absolute lack of intellectual discussion and choices in sources.

You will wait for independent international investigations? You will be waiting for a long time then. And not many will care by then. Much better to have a look at largely independent disinformation debunking efforts of some sources such as Bellingcat - timely and focused.

Russians have every reason to down play their war crimes in Bucha. Pretty obvious to any neutral observer.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Wood said:


> Russian people react to Bucha



Russians are barbarians. They consider themselves Mongols the way Germans consider themselves Huns. In WW1 German soldiers wore Hunnic helmet. German language is heavily influenced by Hunnic language. Huns ruled Germany in the 400s.


----------



## That Guy

nangyale said:


> And yet you try to cleanse your dirty laundry by claiming to be neutral.
> 
> By the way I do have a life outside, and only occasionally comment on events.
> At this time just couldn't resist calling your fakery out.
> 
> Anyways I know I can't change your enslaved mind.
> 
> So carry on Brown sahib, I have better things to do.


>Brown sahib.

Nice racism, way to prove your point.

Trolling the pro-Russians isn't really taking a side. If the situation was reversed, I'd be trolling the Ukrainians.

You calling me out is hilarious, because your opinion literally doesn't matter. Lol

Also, I never claimed to be neutral, I said I don't give a damn if they're killing each other. Clearly I'm rooting for the underdog, but not because I care, but mostly because it's like rooting for my local sports team, even if I don't really care about the sport.

My interests in this are mostly for self knowledge.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

sur said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511723218851471363



Czechs are racist. Czechs fought on Nazi side in WW2 and slaughtered lots of Jews.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## ahtan_china



Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ukrainians captured a Tornado-G artillery which is modernized BM-21 which has automatic fire laying.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511839558958166019


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511849639158366217


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511813909115805698

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Song Hong

Chechen fighters dancing in Mariupol.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511774314965749765

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Song Hong said:


> Chechen fighters dancing in Mariupol.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511774314965749765



That's what I'm talking about. Muslim men dance the best.


----------



## Song Hong

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510597269850099712


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511861740992036864

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511891384353046528

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Sineva

You just cant beat some good old fashioned atrocity propaganda 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511843515382251523And there I was thinking that claims of stolen incubators and babies left to die on cold concrete floors or packets of viagra handed out to fighters to encourage mass rape,were the bees knees,they aint got nothing on "mobile crematoriums".
Why those fiendish russians..... 🤡

Reactions: Like Like:
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## sammuel

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Czechs are racist. Czechs fought on Nazi side in WW2 and slaughtered lots of Jews.



Another shallow and misleading one liner.

Check partisan's fought Nazi best they could and paid for it . The most famous example was assassination of Reinhard Heydrich , 5000 checks where murdered by the Germans as reprisal.









Assassination of Reinhard Heydrich - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Or if , as apparently you do not like to read facts ,you can watch the Full movie here :


*Anthropoid ( 2016 ) *Full movie :








In 1968 , Russians ( soviets ) invaded Czechoslovakia. One of the more famous images of the 20th century , where Russian tanks driving through the historical beautiful city of Prague.













Suggested reading :





__





Soviets invade Czechoslovakia


On the night of August 20, 1968, approximately 200,000 Warsaw Pact troops and 5,000 tanks invade Czechoslovakia to crush the “Prague Spring”—a brief period of




www.history.com

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## The SC

sur said:


> Is there any news if these tanks/vehicle have actually entered Ukraine?
> Or may be they are still accumulating in Poland etc.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511835135108337668


----------



## Wood




----------



## kingQamaR

As much as we all want to send equipment to Ukraine, there's really little point in sending many western armoured vehicles/tanks because the Ukrainians haven't been trained on them. It's much better to send the stuff they are familiar with - so that will come from the stocks owned by former Warsaw-pact countries. It's a lot harder to train someone on a Challenger, Leopard or Abrams than it is to use a NLAW or other shoulder-fired missile. And you really can't deny, that such missile systems - freely provided - have been used rather effectively by forces in Ukraine.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511715646605860864


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> As much as we all want to send equipment to Ukraine, there's really little point in sending many western armoured vehicles/tanks because the Ukrainians haven't been trained on them. It's much better to send the stuff they are familiar with - so that will come from the stocks owned by former Warsaw-pact countries. It's a lot harder to train someone on a Challenger, Leopard or Abrams than it is to use a NLAW or other shoulder-fired missile. And you really can't deny, that such missile systems - freely provided - have been used rather effectively by forces in Ukraine.



Tanks are easy targets for Russian anti tank missiles. Russia has thousands and thousands of these which are nasty.













sur said:


> Thanks, but I was wondering if any of these vehicles like tanks or armored carriers* have actually crossed into UA yet*.
> Because they may fetch NLAWs etc. unnoticed in trunk of civilian sedans, but making large military vehicles may not be as well camouflaged.



Also, Ukraine has no fuel. It would be difficult for Ukraine to operate a large number of vehicles unless the UK is willing to provide the fuel.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511715646605860864



Judging from the photos, this unit is primarily if not exclusively made up of Far Eastern Russians. These people are barbaric and speak similar language to Turks and Mongols and Huns. I would not put it past them to have committed genocide to people in Bucha. Ethnic Russians are far more civilized and are actually quite welcome in places they have conquered.


----------



## KAL-EL

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russians are barbarians. They consider themselves Mongols the way Germans consider themselves Huns. In WW1 German soldiers wore Hunnic helmet. German language is heavily influenced by Hunnic language. Huns ruled Germany in the 400s.



You forgot about Romanians.

Most especially the most powerful being on Earth, who once called Romania his home.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

KAL-EL said:


> You forgot about Romanians.
> 
> Most especially the most powerful being on Earth, who once called Romania his home.



Romanians were conquered by Mongols and their women got raped by Mongol men and so modern Romanians are barbaric.


----------



## kingQamaR

Czech Republic today is sending T72s other a


Tai Hai Chen said:


> Tanks are easy targets for Russian anti tank missiles. Russia has thousands and thousands of these which are nasty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, Ukraine has no fuel. It would be difficult for Ukraine to operate a large number of vehicles unless the UK is willing to provide the fuel.
> 
> 
> 
> Judging from the photos, this unit is primarily if not exclusively made up of Far Eastern Russians. These people are barbaric and speak similar language to Turks and Mongols and Huns. I would not put it past them to have committed genocide to people in Bucha. Ethnic Russians are far more civilized and are actually quite welcome in places they have conquered.



What's the point of a 3 million pound tank, when a 25k missile carried by a single sole soldier can blow it to smithereens? Tanks are irrelevant in modern warfare old chap, maybe you and Putin should move with the times!


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511908547193290759

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511880718007234563


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Putin uses East Asians to slaughter Ukrainians because he knows ethnic Russians won't do that.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511715646605860864
@F-22Raptor @gambit


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511734610996125702
Movies will be made of this war


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511901947489517568


----------



## thetutle

SalarHaqq said:


> And please also tell it to Scott Ritter Jr., former Marine Corps intelligence officer, former UN arms inspector, a knowledgeable and experienced analyst of military affairs no doubt, whom I basically cited. Source:


Former intelligence officer and current child sex offender.


----------



## The SC

sur said:


> Thanks, but I was wondering if any of these vehicles like tanks or armored carriers* have actually crossed into UA yet*.
> Because they may fetch NLAWs etc. unnoticed in trunk of civilian sedans, but making large military vehicles may not be as well camouflaged.


They just hand them to Ukrainians in neighboring countries and let them deal with the rest!

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> Czech Republic today is sending T72s



T-72 is coffin, especially the 1970s export downgraded version they sent. Kornet and Metis M1 anti tank missiles easily kill them.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511859360523202564


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> Czech Republic today is sending T72s other a
> 
> 
> What's the point of a 3 million pound tank, when a 25k missile carried by a single sole soldier can blow it to smithereens? Tanks are irrelevant in modern warfare old chap, maybe you and Putin should move with the times!



Tanks are outdated. Russia is switching to light tanks like BTR-82A and armored cars like Tigr and Bulat, and MRAPs.


----------



## kingQamaR

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Tanks are outdated. Russia is switching to light tanks like BTR-82A and armored cars like Tigr and Bulat, and MRAPs.



You might have a point? Or awful Russian outdated battle tactics from ww2 

Poor Tanks are no longer the best battlefield weapon! UAVs and laser guided missile systems etc have taken over. Tanks are too easily spotted as the Russians have discovered. Take out the Russian guns


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> You might have a point? Or awful Russian outdated battle tactics from ww2
> 
> Poor Tanks are no longer the best battlefield weapon! UAVs and laser guided missile systems etc have taken over. Tanks are too easily spotted as the Russians have discovered. Take out the Russian guns



Tanks cannot be manufactured in large numbers. Only a few thousand. The vehicles I mentioned can be manufactured in large numbers.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511856282763857922

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511854665272463361

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC



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## kingQamaR

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Tanks cannot be manufactured in large numbers. Only a few thousand. The vehicles I mentioned can be manufactured in large numbers.



They to can be spotted by UAVS taken out less armoured to. And by javelin or other anti missiles They’d be very vulnerable on there own without tanks supporting them from enemy incoming firing while off loading there troops.


----------



## sammuel

thetutle said:


> Former intelligence officer and current child sex offender.



True , :

In October 2011, he received a sentence of 1½ to 5½ years in prison.[48] He was sent to Laurel Highlands state prison in Somerset County, Pennsylvania in March 2012 and paroled in September 2014









Scott Ritter - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> They to can be spotted by UAVS taken out less armoured to. And by javelin or other anti missiles They’d be very vulnerable on there own without tanks supporting them from enemy incoming firing while off loading there troops.



True, but they don't cost much, and they can mount a decent remote controlled heavy machine gun or autocannon turret or anti tank missile launcher or MANPADS launcher, making them quite versatile too.



The SC said:


> View attachment 831264



I think Russians will take East Kiev which is the half of Kiev east of Dnipr river.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Warning. Graphic. Do not watch if you are faint hearted.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511856331942027267
Attacking Ukrainian fuel depot so Ukrainians cannot drive tanks.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511897579826688000
Su-25 CAS jets


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511925446727852033
Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511923475375603713
CAS helicopters


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511928432476790785
Donbas battle


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511929398311669761
Russian air force drone strike using laser guided missile



https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1511937948098383873


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511804326808731648


----------



## ahtan_china



Reactions: Love Love:
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## sammuel

~


Real intercepted calls :Russian soldiers in Ukraine calling loved ones and brag about looting :​



































































~

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## kingQamaR

Tai Hai Chen said:


> True, but they don't cost much, and they can mount a decent remote controlled heavy machine gun or autocannon turret or anti tank missile launcher or MANPADS launcher, making them quite versatile too.
> 
> 
> 
> I think Russians will take East Kiev which is the half of Kiev east of Dnipr river.


 
Your little armoured carrier has three crew members and carries 8 troops inside that’s quite a lot of casualties if you start losing them in a fight in high numbers by replacing your tanks with it and might not be sustainable either in a fight . Even with your remote control machine gunner very limited in its fire power. I agree with it having a missile launches on top , still no gun how would it clear heavy street fighting or shell enemies positions like tank artillery gun does effectively


----------



## ahtan_china



Reactions: Love Love:
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## The SC

Day 42.
Luhansk direction.
Soldiers of one of the separate motorized infantry battalions of the 57th separate motorized infantry brigade destroyed an enemy tank.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511733184391794694

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511751685064265729


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511846640445009927

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511775172834996229

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511774971298652164

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511774096916320259

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511768217827491846


----------



## Menthol

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511825268444442627
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511778519608696839
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511711288132517889
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511718561798135808


 
No panic, there's no risk of nuclear war, said by USA.

Lol

USA is sacrificing Europe, while Europe is praising and trusting USA like gods or something.

This Ukraine-Russia conflict was created by USA, but Europe is the most suffering.

I think if Russia launches a nuclear attack, Europe will be hit the most.

USA is perhaps can reduce the effect as USA is far away from Russia, but not Europe.

I think Europeans are dumb and their leaders are selling the whole continent at cheap.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> @Oldman1 @Paul2
> 
> Gen Wesley Clark just explained on CNN why Ukrainian need tanks, artillery, gunship and planes in the next phase of war.
> 
> LOL, I swear to god, they probably are listening to our conversation  This is not the first time this happens....


LOL! We all think alike on this.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> Tanks are outdated. Russia is switching to light tanks like BTR-82A and armored cars like Tigr and Bulat, and MRAPs.


They are already using those in this conflict and getting destroyed. So not sure its the tanks being outdated or the newer vehicles.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> Bad logic. For ever Javelin the US makes, Russia makes 10 Kornet. For every NLAW the UK makes, Russia makes 10 Metis M1. Russia makes far more anti tank missiles than the US and the UK can send to Ukraine.


We know who is getting killed more with those weapons.


----------



## Oldman1

OldTwilight said:


> look like russian army main problem is lack of moral among its troops ...


----------



## kingQamaR

Menthol said:


> No panic, there's no risk of nuclear war, said by USA.
> 
> Lol
> 
> USA is sacrificing Europe, while Europe is praising and trusting USA like gods or something.
> 
> This Ukraine-Russia conflict was created by USA, but Europe is the most suffering.
> 
> I think if Russia launches a nuclear attack, Europe will be hit the most.
> 
> USA is perhaps can reduce the effect as USA is far away from Russia, but not Europe.
> 
> I think Europeans are dumb and their leaders are selling the whole continent at cheap.



simply, Moscow has always been a coward scared of Washington firepower. so it never threatened usa it’s present day Russians losses are of USA not EU from former ussr collapse to today. German was neutral as others until he lost it 

Let’s see what this moron in Moscow has decided to do. so far putin miscalculation cost has been so far on the Slavic countries Ukraine and Moscow.


----------



## Oldman1

@jhungary @F-22Raptor @gambit @Wood 
These give an insight into what the Russian soldiers are saying and thinking to their wives and friends. Some of the conversations are hilarious. I'm thinking Russia being desperate to use these understrength or combat ineffective units that were in Kiev theater with shortage of manpower and low morale. Wouldn't be surprise many would desert or refuse.

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## Oldman1

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Helicopters flying low are easy targets for MANPADS considering how slow and loud they are.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508541788797218825


Sure if they are in the right place to shoot them down. You saw what happened in Belgorod, Russia with that oil storage attack flying low and escaping.


----------



## gambit

Oldman1 said:


> @jhungary @F-22Raptor @gambit @Wood
> These give an insight into what the Russian soldiers are saying and thinking to their wives and friends. Some of the conversations are hilarious. I'm thinking Russia being desperate to use these understrength or combat ineffective units that were in Kiev theater with shortage of manpower and low morale. Wouldn't be surprise many would desert or refuse.


I do not understand why so many in this forum believe that Poutine sent in his second strings and bench warmers and somehow that made the disaster that is the Russian military more palatable. Send in your best to win the war then use the second stringers to enforce the peace. For those who believe Russia kept their best back in Russia, I hope their countries' militaries are filled with stupid people like them.

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## Oldman1

Viet said:


> Krauss Maffei says can do upgrade up to 7 pieces of Leo II tanks per month. In addition the company can quickly deliver infantry tanks Boxer, Puma and artillery worth 20 billion euros.
> That’s not all for Ukraine certainly. Most go to the Bundeswehr.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 100 Milliarden für die Bundeswehr - Chef des Münchner Panzerbauers KMW verspricht: „Wir können liefern“
> 
> 
> Das Sondervermögen zur Verteidigung dürfte bei den deutschen Rüstungskonzernen für Freude sorgen. KMW-Geschäftsführer Ralf Ketzel hat jedoch auch Bedenken.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.merkur.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 831051


Best thing to do is keep sending more Russian made or Russian design vehicles and equipment that are nearby to be use right now. They can also send in their own vehicles that they don't use anymore. We don't know how long the war is going to be, and the Ukrainians are fast leaners and they can learn to use some of the western equipment. Take a few days or weeks of training on western tanks for example.



gambit said:


> I do not understand why so many in this forum believe that Poutine sent in his second strings and bench warmers and somehow that made the disaster that is the Russian military more palatable. Send in your best to win the war then use the second stringers to enforce the peace. For those who believe Russia kept their best back in Russia, I hope their countries' militaries are filled with stupid people like them.


Its kind of like Saddam who prefers to keep his precious Republic Guard units intact.

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## JX-1

gambit said:


> The VKS is a failure and a joke of an air force. The Russian Army resorts to terror tactics against civilians. Russia is economically damaged. Poutine finally realized how deluded he has been. And China is slow walking away.
> 
> I guess we can leave this thread to all the Russia defenders to do whatever they can to salvage face for Russia.


To think in Call of Duty they captured half of Europe and the whole East Coast...


----------



## Oldman1

JX-1 said:


> To think in Call of Duty they captured half of Europe and the whole East Coast...









JX-1 said:


> To think in Call of Duty they captured half of Europe and the whole East Coast...


If it was the Soviet Union would have been possible...at least in Europe.


----------



## gambit

Oldman1 said:


> Its kind of like Saddam who prefers to keep his precious Republic Guard units intact.


The problem for Saddam Hussein was that his Repugnican Guards were not that 'elite' to start. They were 'elite' in the sense that he paid them some extra money, more benefits, and publicly favored them. Ultimately, they were more his bodyguards than deployable troops.

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## Oldman1

gambit said:


> The problem for Saddam Hussein was that his Repugnican Guards were not that 'elite' to start. They were 'elite' in the sense that he paid them some extra money, more benefits, and publicly favored them. Ultimately, they were more his bodyguards than deployable troops.


Ah I figure they had better equipment and some training compared to the other Iraqi units at least.


----------



## gambit

Oldman1 said:


> Ah I figure they had better equipment and some training compared to the other Iraqi units at least.


In order to enhance the Reptilian Guards image, of course they had better gear and some more training, but the problem was that whenever we in the West reads/hears the word 'elite' we automatically impute our own standards of what is 'elite-ness' onto these other militaries, which eventually we usually found out they were not so 'elite' after all. When I was active duty, even when I was on the F-111, I heard from the F-15 guys that they quietly lower the standards for the Saudis 'elite' F-15 pilots because so many of them are 'princes' one way or another. You cannot be anything less than 'elite' if you are a prince. So all these Saudi 'princes pilots' are often are better airmen than American pilots. But paper is cheap...

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## Paul2

Oldman1 said:


> Ah I figure they had better equipment and some training compared to the other Iraqi units at least.



Not much different from 1st GTA of Russia. They get the best kit, actual training, and lavished way more than regulars because they were to guard Moscow as the last line of defence. They were to never be deployed abroad.


I put accent on "actual training"

Just how few units in Russian armed forces have real warfighting preparedness, instead off being second line troops after nuclear offensive?

They prepared an army according to a nuclear warfare doctrine, and instead they were forced into fighting "WW1 with modern weapons"

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## Oldman1

Paul2 said:


> Not much different from 1st GTA of Russia. They get the best kit, actual training, and lavished way more than regulars because they were to guard Moscow as the last line of defence.
> 
> I put accent on "actual training"
> 
> Just how few units in RAF have real warfighting preparedness?


Think the recent info is less than 100 hours of training per year.


----------



## -=virus=-

Oldman1 said:


> Think the recent info is less than 100 hours of training per year.


that can not possible be true.


----------



## The SC

A deeper look at the Russian - Ukraine conflict : *Ukraine energy profile*

https://www.iea.org/reports/ukraine-energy-profile/energy-security

https://hir.harvard.edu/ukraine-energy-reserves/


Ukrainian lithium, another cause of the Russian invasion? ​"Lithium may not be the reason for the invasion, but* there is a reason why Ukraine is so important to Russia. And that is its mineral base*," Rod Schoonover, former director of the National Intelligence Council's Environment and Natural Resources Directorate, told the US daily "The New York Times". According to Schoonover, Moscow is trying to position itself in the lithium war, which will shape the future of the technology and mobility sectors. 

https://atalayar.com/en/content/ukrainian-lithium-another-cause-russian-invasion

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511980284102811648


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511910127158374402
More than 1 month under a violent siege,cut from the rest of Ukraine,the city leveled to the ground but Ukrainian army still resisting... respect to them against Russian hordes and kadyrov lapdogs...

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## Foinikas

I had to make it

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## sammuel

~











~

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Life has returned to normal in Kherson


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511991523079966720
Russian cruise missiles attack Ukrainian fuel storage


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511975773044805632
pontoon bridge at Izyum


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511957713185476609

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## coffee_cup

As of today:

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511940434070753281

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511969013479493638

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511969216152444930

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511970335985393669

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511989019298701318

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512025218713329665


----------



## sammuel

~


Good news ! Russians want peace.



Kremlin says U.S. weapons supplies to Ukraine will probably hurt peace talks prospects​

(Reuters) - The Kremlin said on Thursday that Washington’s decision to keep supplying Ukraine with weapons and military assistance would probably damage chances of successful peace talks between Russia and Ukraine.

“Pumping weapons into Ukraine will not contribute to the success of Russian-Ukrainian talks,” Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said on a conference call with reporters when asked about U.S. weapons supplies to Ukraine.

“Of course this will most likely have a negative effect.”










Kremlin says U.S. weapons supplies to Ukraine will probably hurt peace talks prospects


The Kremlin said on Thursday that Washington's decision to keep supplying Ukraine with weapons and military assistance would probably damage chances of successful peace talks between Russia and Ukraine.




www.reuters.com





~

Nice of them to show genuine concern for the peace talks.

Indeed what do the Ukrainians need all those weapon for , If Russia wants peace ?


After all it is, this is the dawning of the age of Aquarius , where peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars.









~


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512052751144001546

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## Piotr

Russian forces give food to civilians near Kharkov:

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## jamahir

Gennady Zyuganov : Ukraine should be liberated from Nazism and Banderites​Leader of the CPRF faction called the decision of the President of the Russian Federation to start operation aimed at demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine historical


April 5, 2022, 13:40
1 minute Reading time






Leader of the CPRF faction Gennady Zyuganov

“Everyone understands that Ukraine should be liberated from Nazism and Banderites. Everyone is aware that the decision of the President of the Russian Federation to start operation aimed at demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine is historical. But everyone understands that if we stop and the Nazis still hold power, the situation will be even worse,” said Gennady Zyuganov, leader of the CPRF faction, at the plenary meeting.

“I want to remind you that we are finishing the Great Patriotic War there today. We had not managed to stop Banderites then, there were attempts to liquidate them during 10 years after war, 57 thousand Soviet soldiers and officers, state security officers, activists of the party and Komsomol Soviet organs died,” he stressed.
http://duma.gov.ru/en/news/28319/

---

Vyacheslav Volodin: the situation in Bucha is a provocation aimed at discrediting Russia​
According to Chairman of the State Duma, the NATO member states do not need investigations as they have already found those to blame

April 5, 2022, 09:15
3 minutes Reading time








Chairman of the State Duma Vyacheslav Volodin

The Chairman of the State Duma Vyacheslav Volodin, commenting on the situation in Bucha, posted on his Telegram channel that “meanness is the only thing we are not prepared for. That is our strength and weakness at the same time.”

“The situation in Bucha is a provocation aimed at discrediting Russia,” the Chairman of the State Duma emphasized.

According to him, it looks like there was some kind of orders, as we see the same headlines and photos foreign media today. “Joe Biden immediately called for new sanctions. Boris Johnson echoed his rhetoric. Zelensky, who had been hiding somewhere at a NATO base, was urgently brought to Bucha. By the way, he answered in the affirmative to the question “Will he continue to negotiate with Russia?” Vyacheslav Volodin added.

According to the Chairman of the State Duma, if those events in Bucha were real, that would definitely affect Zelensky's decision to negotiate. “In other words, Zelensky does not include this issue on the agenda in the dialogue with Russia. Because he knows the truth,” he stressed.


> “Those pictures in Bucha are parts of a staged fake. A performance made for a Western audience. Our country twice requested to hold an urgent meeting of the UN Security Council. But the UK blocked it. The NATO member states do not need investigations, as they have already found those who they should blame. No facts. Only lies,” emphasized Vyacheslav Volodin.


He also recalled that the Ukrainian media started to delete the “photo evidence” they posted, because the information was not confirmed.

“But nobody pays attention to that anymore. The accusations have been made. Washington and Brussels are writers and directors. Kyiv provides actors. The United States had already done the same in Yugoslavia, Libya, Iraq, Syria, even in Ukraine — the Mariupol maternity hospital,” added the Chairman of the State Duma.

“There is still the same goal — to discredit Russia, to justify sanctions, weapons supplies and other unfriendly actions to continue escalating the situation in Ukraine. As history shows, time sorts all things out,” concluded Vyacheslav Volodin.

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## nang2

coffee_cup said:


> As of today:
> 
> View attachment 831370


I suspect some European companies are secretly buying Ruble contrary to what their governments say. Or maybe they collude in this game.



sur said:


> She just spoke my mind:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511933222300667904


Well, there is another way saying this. Since Ukrainians are willing to die for their country, weapons supplied by the West simply help them fulfill their wishes.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512066650564337675

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## Paul2

-=virus=- said:


> that can not possible be true.



Russian _mechanised_ train less than PLA _motorised_, and we know that PLAs land force training is not a lot.

3 month initial boot camp + 6 weeks of intense training/study per year after


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511955624183181315


----------



## nang2

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511955624183181315


Wouldn't that be great? Let Nazis kill themselves.

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## Wood

nang2 said:


> Wouldn't that be great? Let Nazis kill themselves.


People who live in glass houses shouldn't...


----------



## sammuel




----------



## nang2

Wood said:


> People who live in glass houses shouldn't...


Shouldn't what?


----------



## jamahir

sur said:


> She just spoke my mind:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511933222300667904



She spoke sensibly so who was that laughing idiot who left the hall ?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512082819190702090

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## jamahir

sammuel said:


>



LOL, this cartoon is like the Indian Subcontinental saying "Ulta chor kotwaal ko daante", in literal meaning "The thief is accusing the police officer of stealing". So the Russians are the Nazis now ? And what are bioweapons-lab-keeping and lying Zelensky and his military ? Revolutionaries ?

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## nang2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512082819190702090


This is just silly. Ideally, in every conflict the other side should just give up. We all know that ideal result. We don't need a general to tell us that.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512091436354662402

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512092946572533761


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512096059853619204

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512098205311373318

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## MajesticPug

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512096059853619204
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512098205311373318


It's a rubber-stamp council on American State Department's payroll. So this was on Putin's calculation long before the special military operation.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512101009362984963

No kidding Moscow Mikhail

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## jamahir

MajesticPug said:


> It's a rubber-stamp council on American State Department's payroll. So this was on Putin's calculation long before the special military operation.



I agree. And some on this thread were talking about Kazakhstan going against Russia but it voted against in this vote.

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## MajesticPug

jamahir said:


> I agree. And some on this thread were talking about Kazakhstan going against Russia but it voted against in this vote.



That's crazy thought. Kazakhstan is much closer to Russia than China or India is because Kazakhstan relies on Russia.

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511913590978232320

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512092173574889472
Finland set to join NATO

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512034618215739397


----------



## jamahir

MajesticPug said:


> That's crazy thought. Kazakhstan is much closer to Russia than China or India is because Kazakhstan relies on Russia.



OK. And in fact @beijingwalker had posted an Asian Boss street interview in Almaty city and one girl said that if Russia has to fight against the world then Kazakhstan will fight alongside Russia against the world.


----------



## Viet

Initially refused now Germany willing to deliver 100 Marder infantry tanks to Ukraine.






Ein Bundeswehr-Panzer vom Typ Marder im Einsatz in Afghanistan





__





Dreiecks-Geschäft vorgeschlagen: Ukraine möchte 100 Marder der Bundeswehr - n-tv.de


Die Ukraine hofft darauf, dass Deutschland ihr Kampfpanzer liefert - diesmal geht es nicht um alte DDR-Fahrzeuge, sondern um Marder der Bundeswehr. Dafür schlägt sie ein Spiel über die Bande vor, das in Berlin noch nicht viel Anklang findet.



amp.n-tv.de


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512033219415261186

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Trango Towers

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512033219415261186


Oh come on ...enough

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## F-22Raptor

Russian spooks are being kicked out of Europe en masse​
Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has bruised its army and battered its economy. Now Russia’s spies are being hammered, too. On April 7th Austria, for many years a hub for Russian espionage, became the latest country to expel suspected Russian intelligence officers, bringing the total number of Russian officials expelled from America and Europe since the war began to more than 400. The mass expulsions, the largest in history, are likely to have lasting effects on Vladimir Putin’s intelligence services and their ability to spy—and to subvert—in Europe.










Russian spooks are being kicked out of Europe en masse


The Kremlin’s intelligence services have been set back by years




www.economist.com


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Muslims battle in Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511912225774178308


----------



## jamal18

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512033219415261186


The bullshit is getting knee deep.

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## sammuel

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512092173574889472
> Finland set to join NATO



That would never happen but for Putin's invasion . Public opinion in Finland was very much against it . But now it seems most of the public support this move , for obvious reasons.


Finland to clarify next steps on possible NATO entry within weeks​
HELSINKI, April 7 (Reuters) - Finland will clarify next steps regarding a possible decision to seek NATO membership in the coming weeks, Foreign Minister Pekka Haavisto told reporters after attending a NATO foreign ministers' meeting in Brussels on Thursday.

Since Russia's invasion of Ukraine in February, opinion polls commissioned by Finnish media outlets have shown a swift U-turn in public opinion in Finland with the majority now favouring joining U.S.-led NATO.

Finland, a European Union member state, shares a 1,300-km (810-mile) border with Russia. Haavisto said Russia's invasion had shown that Russia is willing to take increasing risks in its military operations, can quickly mobilise more than 100,000 soldiers against a neighbouring country, and has mooted more openly than before the possible use of its nuclear and biological weapons.

"There we come to a situation in which we may need cooperation," Haavisto said, alluding to NATO.

He added that NATO member countries have offered to help Finland with ensuring security during an application process and said they estimate it would take from four months to one year to approve the application.

"There is an important NATO summit in Madrid in June. Of course NATO is wondering whether Finland and possibly Sweden will have submitted their membership applications before that," Haavisto said.


He said the government will next week give the Finnish parliament a review on how Russia's decision to attack Ukraine has changed Finland's security. But he added the government was prepared to quickly propose joining NATO if there was sufficient support from parliament.

After fighting with the Soviet Union during World War Two, Finland has based security policy on maintaining a credible defence and friendly relations with its much larger neighbour.

The Nordic nation ularly participates in defence training with neighbouring Sweden and Norway, is a member of British-led JEF forces and in 2014 joined NATO's enhanced opportunities program together with Sweden, Australia, Georgia and Jordan.









Finland to clarify next steps on possible NATO entry within weeks


Finland will clarify next steps regarding a possible decision to seek NATO membership in the coming weeks, Foreign Minister Pekka Haavisto told reporters after attending a NATO foreign ministers' meeting in Brussels on Thursday.




www.reuters.com


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512111674916020225


----------



## Corax

Here's what I think is going to happen...

The US is continuing its Wolfowitz Doctrine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfowitz_Doctrine) on Russia, and they know full well that the Ukrainians have no chance of winning this, but they're prolonging it for as long as possible to butcher Russian soldiers. The European NATO and EU poodles obediently play along.

When the Azov battalion and other elements of the Ukrainian army are finally defeated in Eastern Ukraine, and the country effectively becoming land-locked, the remnants of the neo-Nazis will escape to their Western heartland. Disgruntled, they'll blame the Jew Zelenski for their defeat, and either overthrow his puppet regime, or shoot him dead, and establish a Banderarite state. Western Ukraine would then effectively become the first neo-Nazi state, right on the borders of NATO.

NATO would then be "compelled" to invade Western Ukraine, defeat the Banderarite neo-Nazi state, and checkmate...NATO is on the borders of Russia in what was left of Ukraine.

I can't help but feel Putin has played into the trap. 

If we haven't all sleep walked into WWIII and nuclear Armageddon by then, remember where you read it first

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512021140285587458

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512111809691631620
now leaving kiev its act of good will

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## oberschlesier

Corax said:


> Here's what I think is going to happen...
> 
> The US is continuing its Wolfowitz Doctrine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfowitz_Doctrine) on Russia, and they know full well that the Ukrainians have no chance of winning this, but they're prolonging it for as long as possible to butcher Russian soldiers. The European NATO and EU poodles obediently play along.
> 
> When the Azov battalion and other elements of the Ukrainian army are finally defeated in Eastern Ukraine, and the country effectively becoming land-locked, the remnants of the neo-Nazis will escape to their Western heartland. Disgruntled, they'll blame the Jew Zelenski for their defeat, and either overthrow his puppet regime, or shoot him dead, and establish a Banderarite state. Western Ukraine would then effectively become the first neo-Nazi state, right on the borders of NATO.
> 
> NATO would then be "compelled" to invade Western Ukraine, defeat the Banderarite neo-Nazi state, and checkmate...NATO is on the borders of Russia in what was left of Ukraine.
> 
> I can't help but feel Putin has played into the trap.
> 
> If we haven't all sleep walked into WWIII and nuclear Armageddon by then, remember where you read it first


First Russia needs to win in eastern Ukraine. If this happens, it will more be a West-East Germany Situation. Why should NATO send any troops? It`s a defence pact. Ukrainians are fighting well enough anyway.


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512133914000826386

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

woof @F-22Raptor


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512131462627270676

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Wood

'Out to get the Russians': The 73-year-old Vietnam vet fighting in Ukraine​


> Out of the thousands of foreign volunteers to have taken up arms in Ukraine, 73-year-old Florida retiree Steven Straub is perhaps the oldest. But he is hoping his combat experience as a veteran of the Vietnam war will come in handy in the fight against the invading Russian forces.


----------



## Wergeland

Russia is really getting hammered by sanctions and boycots. Never seem anything like it. Will it survive this onslaught?!


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512114366836924436


----------



## bobo6661

thats some new level of propaganda xD


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512109132349849607#Kuzmin: ⚡️The Russian Federation🇬🇺 has decided to early terminate its powers as a member of the #UN Human Rights Council from April 7, 2022.


----------



## sammuel

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512111809691631620
> now leaving kiev its act of good will



First time Russians admit to have lost thousands of troops.


~

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## bobo6661

sammuel said:


> First time Russians admit to have lost thousands of troops.
> 
> ~


Yee i'm shocked they admitted it, looks like the losses are really huge


----------



## Indos

Wergeland said:


> Russia is really getting hammered by sanctions and boycots. Never seem anything like it. Will it survive this onslaught?!



Russia is big country with big population, they will survive but the economic growth will be slashed of course. Russian oil and gas export are also not part of the sanction ( except by USA)


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512114366836924436




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512111809691631620

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## bobo6661

Indos said:


> Russia is big country with big population, they will survive but the economic growth will be slashed of course. Russian oil and gas are not part of the sanction ( except by USA)











Russia loses a million people in historic population fall


Russia's population declined by more than one million people in 2021, the statistics agency Rosstat reported Friday, a historic drop not seen since the collapse of the Soviet Union.




www.france24.com













Russia Doesn’t Have the Demographics for War


The 1990s collapse in birth rates still impacts Moscow’s ambitions.




foreignpolicy.com





they had a problem with it already


----------



## Wergeland

Indos said:


> Russia is big country with big population, they will survive but the economic growth will be slashed of course. Russian oil and gas export are also not part of the sanction ( except by USA)



Thats true
but everything has a breaking point.
No one could foresee Soviet collapse but yet it happened.


----------



## oberschlesier

Indos said:


> Russia is big country with big population, they will survive but the economic growth will be slashed of course. Russian oil and gas export are also not part of the sanction ( except by USA)


Sure, it will survive, but the cost will be significant. Economic growth was already slashed after 2014 with light sanctions. Now this will be a deep recession. ( -10+% ), they can export gas and oil, but got a embargo on western technologies, which Russia does not produce and this will hit them. Reorientation on China would be difficult, takes time and I`m not sure, if they want this...

Economic growth will be slashed by 1-2% in the EU.


----------



## LeGenD

*UPDATES*

Russia have admitted heavy losses in Ukraine:









Putin's mouthpiece ADMITS Russia suffered 'significant troop losses'


Speaking on Sky News, Dmitry Peskov failed to reveal exactly how many Russian soldiers had died but said: 'We have significant losses of troops. And it's a huge tragedy for us.'




www.dailymail.co.uk





Russia is booted from UN Human Rights council:









Russia Suspended From U.N. Human Rights Council


Russia is the second country to be suspended from the body.




www.forbes.com





Russia is coming to terms with Finland and Sweden joining NATO:









Russia says it would have to 'rebalance' if Finland and Sweden join NATO


Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said on Thursday that if Finland and Sweden joined NATO then Russia would have to "rebalance the situation" with its own measures.




www.reuters.com





- - -

Russia should learn to peacefully co-exist with its neighbors.

It is best to avoid war which cannot be won.

Russia is already blessed with lot of geography and natural resources; people and their needs should be priority.

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## Wood

Indos said:


> Russia is big country with big population, they will survive but the economic growth will be slashed of course*. Russian oil and gas export are also not part of the sanction* ( except by USA)


Oil and gas is not directly sanctioned. But majority of countries (like India) cannot pay Russia in a currency that it can use. So there is an indirect sanction on Russian oil that limits its potential.



LeGenD said:


> Russia is booted from UN Human Rights council:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Suspended From U.N. Human Rights Council
> 
> 
> Russia is the second country to be suspended from the body.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia is coming to terms with Finland and Sweden joining NATO:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia says it would have to 'rebalance' if Finland and Sweden join NATO
> 
> 
> Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said on Thursday that if Finland and Sweden joined NATO then Russia would have to "rebalance the situation" with its own measures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com


Finland should thank Ukraine for deflating Russian military might. Putin is no position to do anything about Finland if it joins NATO.

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## Get Ya Wig Split

*Senate passes Ukraine bill to clear hurdles in loaning US military equipment to Kyiv




*
WASHINGTON — The Senate on Wednesday unanimously passed a bill that alleviates bureaucratic hurdles associated with loaning U.S. military equipment to Ukraine.

The Ukraine Democracy Defense Lend-Lease Act, introduced by Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, revives a World War II-era program that allowed the government to lend or lease military equipment to U.S. allies.

The bill would allow the Defense Department to lend or lease defense articles to Ukraine or any other eastern European country, such as Poland, impacted by the invasion.









Senate passes bill to clear hurdles in loaning military equipment to Ukraine


The Senate has unanimously passed a bill that alleviates bureaucratic hurdles associated with loaning U.S. military equipment to Ukraine.




www.defensenews.com

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512049802653192195


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512148388652933123

Russia now has over 2,600 visually confirmed losses


----------



## sammuel

LeGenD said:


> Russia is coming to terms with Finland and Sweden joining NATO:



So much for the NATO excuse.

Lost count on how many times Russia has lied to the world and to it's own people since the beginning of this war.

It started with denying that Russian has any intention to invade Ukraine. They Lied to their public on the success of the " operation " till we saw them retreat from north of Ukraine. I do not even want to comment about what they said about Bucha.

They lied to their public about the number of casualties , till yesterday they talked about 1,500 casualties , now they are talking about thousands . Guess as the numbers mounted up they could not hide it from their public any more.

They maybe able to block twitter and Instagram , but the truth would surface up eventually.

They should really cut their losses and go home , for the sake of Ukraine and Russia.

~


----------



## Vergennes

This country is a fcking joke


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511987655231393796


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512158394219642883

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## LeGenD

Vergennes said:


> This country is a fcking joke
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511987655231393796



Could this mishap be due to panic or you assume overconfidence? Could be due to panic but I am not sure.


----------



## gambit

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512158394219642883


China already know this harsh reality. The weather over the strait will not give China the time of choosing like how Russia had on land, and precisely because China had to traverse water and that amphibious operations are the most technically complex, China must win. Poutine may not like losing, but at least Russia on land have the option of losing. But China cannot afford to lose, else Taiwan might as well be truly independent.


----------



## mmr

Kremlin spokesman admits 'significant losses of troops'​*The Kremlin has admitted suffering “significant losses” of troops since Russia invaded Ukraine, in a rare admission of how badly the war has gone.*

In an interview with Sky News, the Kremlin spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, was asked whether the war had amounted to a humiliation for Russia given the number of troops lost.

Peskov replied:



> We have significant losses of troops. And it’s a huge tragedy for us.


He did not specific a casualty toll. In late March, Russia said it had lost 1,351 soldiers, with another 3,825 wounded. By contrast, a senior Nato official estimated in late March that between 7,000 and 15,000 Russian soldiers had been killed in four weeks of fighting in Ukraine.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512111219028733955


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512165927563018240

Reactions: Sad Sad:
1


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## Wood

gambit said:


> China already know this harsh reality. The weather over the strait will not give China the time of choosing like how Russia had on land, and precisely because China had to traverse water and that amphibious operations are the most technically complex, China must win. Poutine may not like losing, but at least Russia on land have the option of losing. But China cannot afford to lose, else Taiwan might as well be truly independent.


Can J-20s not bomb Taiwan's defenses into submission? They don't have too many F-16s even


----------



## sammuel

mmr said:


> He did not specific a casualty toll.



Listen to the interview - he was asked : you have lost thousand of troops , how many troops have you lost ?

to that he answered :

" Yes , yes, ( nodded his head ) we have, we have , 

Than said :

" We have significant losses of troops. "

My understanding is that he agrees that thousands of troops where lost , but does not want to give an exact number.

~


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512065700029820934

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511970054631473161


----------



## mmr

sammuel said:


> Listen to the interview - he was asked : you have lost thousand of troops , how many troops have you lost ?
> 
> to that he answered :
> 
> " Yes , yes, ( nodded his head ) we have, we have ,
> 
> Than said :
> 
> " We have significant losses of troops. "
> 
> My understanding is that he agrees that thousands of troops where lost , but does not want to give an exact number.
> 
> ~


Dont matter he agrees or not

At this point no one believe Russian govt.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512168666485436416

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## bobo6661

But realy look on those russians saying ukrainians use civilians /citys as shields and looks at the brave russians now digging themself in ukrainian towns ...


----------



## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512168666485436416




Each Switchblade system has 10 drones, so 1000 Switchblade 300s in the original $800M package and 100 Switchblade 600s in the $300M package.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512176640205508616


----------



## gambit

Wood said:


> Can J-20s not bomb Taiwan's defenses into submission? They don't have too many F-16s even


For now, the J-20 is a fighter. Maybe in the future, it will be able to carry bombs. But the strait continues to be the main problem. The weather give China a 2-3 weeks window to attack, invade, and secure Taiwan. Once that window closes, resupplying the occupation force will be difficult and uneven, so China must defeat Taiwanese defense on the first run. Assuming Taiwan resists the way the Ukrainians are, it will be bloody for the PLA and if they fail to pacify the Taiwanese in a few weeks, China will lose in Taiwan the way Russia lost in Ukraine.

The PDF Chinese will go on and on about how Taiwanese are weak, girlish, and too cowardly to fight. We can hope that the PLA leadership thinks like them. That will make the defeat of the PLA that much greater.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512129448153391113

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512113851050954762


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

gambit said:


> For now, the J-20 is a fighter. Maybe in the future, it will be able to carry bombs. But the strait continues to be the main problem. The weather give China a 2-3 weeks window to attack, invade, and secure Taiwan. Once that window closes, resupplying the occupation force will be difficult and uneven, so China must defeat Taiwanese defense on the first run. Assuming Taiwan resists the way the Ukrainians are, it will be bloody for the PLA and if they fail to pacify the Taiwanese in a few weeks, China will lose in Taiwan the way Russia lost in Ukraine.
> 
> The PDF Chinese will go on and on about how Taiwanese are weak, girlish, and too cowardly to fight. We can hope that the PLA leadership thinks like them. That will make the defeat of the PLA that much greater.



Taiwan blockade would last years before Taiwanese defenders surrender. They be living without electricity after all power plants are bombed by Chinese cruise missiles. Chinese are also far more barbaric than Russians. Chinese target power plants which makes civilian lives very difficult.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512088308129546243

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512098205311373318


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512190695896924162

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511939448606539776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512136526485987331

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512174009319833605

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512151976468955137
#urgent|

*Kremlin spokesperson:

Russia's special military operation in Ukraine could end in the coming days*

@CNBCArabia


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512108968813936653"Turkey remains Ukraine’s true and reliable partner."
"Grateful to the Turkish side for its tireless diplomatic efforts to bring an end to Russia’s war against Ukraine."

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512096059853619204
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512098205311373318




60 countries have abstained...Besides, this is not the UN Security Council, so this symbolic move doesn't have any weight.

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## dBSPL

Lets “denazify” Ukraine. (With Russian Nazis)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512138247064985600

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512189685820538880

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## The SC

Russian Prime Minister: These sanctions were not used even in the darkest times of the Cold War There is no doubt that the current situation can be described as the most difficult in 3 decades for Russia - This situation will provide new opportunities, as foreign companies leaving Russia will give way to others







@CNBCArabia

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512189685820538880



Whoa. Cluster incendiary. Seen this kind of artillery a lot in Syria.



dBSPL said:


> Lets “denazify” Ukraine. (With Russian Nazis)
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512138247064985600



Ukrainians and Russians are both the product of Mongol men raping European women. They are both barbaric.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512177035132784641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512175827366076431


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511821203304030210It is important map in terms of showing the ethnic distribution.


----------



## gambit

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Taiwan blockade would last years before Taiwanese defenders surrender. They be living without electricity after all power plants are bombed by Chinese cruise missiles. Chinese are also far more barbaric than Russians. Chinese target power plants which makes civilian lives very difficult.


When was the last time a sea blockade that lasted years?


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> You can hit and run if you have enough place to run, as I said, Eastern Ukraine is not like Western Ukraine, it's mostly open field and meadows. You can't really run far enough to outrun the enemy tank, sure, you may get out 1 or 2 shot, but at the end, it wouldn't do much if the enemy have enough armor to attack.
> 
> In build up area, there are space that infantry and light vehicle can go to where big tank cannot, in an open field, it's another game.
> 
> You can't really stop an armor column by doing hit and run, to do that, you will need a lot of Humvee doing hit and run, and in that case, it would not be a hit and run anymore....


You are ignoring his question. He rightly points out that not having armour is no impediment to Ukranians advancing in the east in the face of Russian tanks. those Russian tanks will be taken out before they even see the ukranian light or medium armour.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512154016918167561

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

gambit said:


> When was the last time a sea blockade that lasted years?



American revolution war when the French blockaded New York.


----------



## SalarHaqq

What exactly happened in Bucha, featuring the excellent Scott Ritter, former US Marine Corps intelligence officer an UN weapons inspector in Iraq.

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## jeremybentham

The SC said:


> Russian Prime Minister: These sanctions were not used even in the darkest times of the Cold War There is no doubt that the current situation can be described as the most difficult in 3 decades for Russia - This situation will provide new opportunities, as foreign companies leaving Russia will give way to others
> 
> View attachment 831596
> 
> 
> @CNBCArabia


In the depths of the cold war we did not have an integrated world economy like we do now. Yes, we did have FRG buying Soviet gas back in the 70s and 80s but that was a drop in the ocean compared to now.

To the learned Prime Minister, if you don't have international (western) trade (during the cold war - 60s to 80s), you can't have sanctions.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512158390197395457
Can this tiktok warlord even lift a gun? He is not even able to throw a ball as far as a sixth grader

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## SalarHaqq

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Taiwan blockade would last years before Taiwanese defenders surrender. They be living without electricity after all power plants are bombed by Chinese cruise missiles. Chinese are also far more barbaric than Russians. Chinese target power plants which makes civilian lives very difficult.



The US regime has been resoundingly defeated in the South China Sea right now as we speak already. They're finished. Much as Russia crushed Ukraine, China will smash Taiwan and there's nothing NATO can do about it.

Listen to an actual, knowledgeable expert describing how and why the west is totally powerless vis a vis China:


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512202756085460996

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511664155706675201
Here you go Ukraine.. you are on your own.. you seem brave and all that.. we can support you as best we can.. but don't pull us in deep Sh*t.. with you..

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## mmr

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512158390197395457
> Can this tiktok warlord even lift a gun? He is not even able to throw a ball as far as a sixth grader


He ask his mom to wipe his a**. He dont know how to do that either lol.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511999258890670083
Those parliament members all look like they saw the Grim reaper close by..


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russian laser guided howitzer round


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512221299124232195
Russian attack drone firing laser guided missile


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512223196983926788

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512172917576007710


----------



## thetutle

CAPRICORN-88 said:


>


Lol this has aged badly. Totally clueless general. He had no idea what was coming for russia.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512219368968572934

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512092173574889472


----------



## thetutle

Tai Hai Chen said:


> China has the largest population and the smartest men in all of Afro-Eurasia. To go up against China is foolish. They will pay. You will see.


China has the smartest population? Thats why they had a famine in the late 1960's where 30 million of them died? Thats pretty smart.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> China has the smartest population? Thats why they had a famine in the late 1960's where 30 million of them died? Thats pretty smart.



Today China has the most powerful economy, military, technology in the world. While it is true China was damaged in WW2, by now China is more than recovered.


----------



## SalarHaqq

thetutle said:


> Former intelligence officer and current child sex offender.



A sex offender like Assange and other dissidents exposing the US empire, sure - we are reminded of the dark days of Soviet "criminal prosecution" and kangaroo courts. Meanwhile, elite paedocriminal networks and their clients among NATO regime oligarchies remain on the loose.

But just as the USSR, the USA is headed for the precipice, only the latter's fall will be even more sonorous and the oppressed will have all the more reason to celebrate, because the bigger they come, the harder they fall as the saying goes.


----------



## thetutle

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Today China has the most powerful economy, military, technology in the world. While it is true China was damaged in WW2, by now China is more than recovered.


Thats why you are in Canada? Because china is so rich and powerful? lol China cant even provide its population with safe drinking water.

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## CAPRICORN-88

thetutle said:


> China has the smartest population? Thats why they had a famine in the late 1960's where 30 million of them died? Thats pretty smart.


Read your history before simply opining.

Did you know the US and allies had indirectly *committed genocide* in China as a result?

China was facing natural disasters which happened annually and seasonally e.g. famine, drought and floods and you blame Mao for that.

So Mao Tze Dong was a GOD, right?
He can ordered these disasters to murder his own people. So logical for some people esp. the low IQ

So why didn't he do that to the US and allies nations or even archrival Chiang KS or Japan?

There were natural disasters and in Western history textbooks they were omitted on purpose including the facts that *Australia and Canada who were willing to supply wheat were forbidden from selling to China by the USA due to sanctions. *


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

SalarHaqq said:


> A sex offender like Assange and other dissidents exposing the US empire, sure - we are reminded of the dark days of Soviet "criminal prosecution" and kangaroo courts. Meanwhile, elite paedocriminal networks and their clients among NATO regime oligarchies remain on the loose.
> 
> But just as the USSR, the USA is headed for the precipice, only the latter's fall will be even more sonorous and the oppressed will have all the more reason to celebrate, because the bigger they come, the harder they fall as the saying goes.


Yes. Why don't Australia US and the allies come out clean?

*Julian Assange was illegally kept in jail because he leaked the darkest secrets of the Empire and her allies. They can't even denied them. *

These memo contradicted the official press release by the US and Allies.

They shown their true color and the clandestine activities of these nations.

*ThIs was why US whistleblower Edward Snowden fled. Edward insisted to this day he is a true US patriot and has never betrayed his country USA. *

His book is so revealing and that is why i understands US sinister motives so clearly.

Referring to his book, China and Hong Kong has introduced The National Security Law that effectively close the loop. 
Hong Kong was a nest of foreign agencies operating as Kindergartens, etc. 
They closed down immediately when the law was introduced.

Now even the UK appellant Judges in Hong Kong appointed during Patton rule have just fled.

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## JonAsad

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512189685820538880









She returned the food..Brave brave Grandma.. Hope nothing bad happened to her after, off camera..

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## thetutle

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Read your history before simply opining.
> 
> Did you know the US and allies had indirectly *committed genocide* in China as a result?
> 
> China was facing natural disasters which happened annually and seasonally e.g. famine, drought and floods and you blame Mao for that.
> 
> So Mao Tze Dong was a GOD, right?
> He can ordered these disasters to murder his own people. So logical for some people esp. the low IQ
> 
> So why didn't he do that to the US and allies nations or even archrival Chiang KS or Japan?
> 
> There were famines and in Western history textbooks they were omitted including the facts that *Australia and Canada who were willing to supply wheat were forbidden from selling to China by the USA due to sanctions. *


Why would Australians sell wheat to china when they are so smart they can avoid famines. Let them figure it out on their own.

Al they had to do is set up a system of government where the central planning does not exist and farmers have control of their own land and are able to see their own harvest. 

It does not help when Mao sends his people to confiscate the rice to give to his cronies while peasants are forced to eat their own children. 

Maybe the smart china will set up the communist system, again. Sounds good to me.

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## CAPRICORN-88

thetutle said:


> Why would Australians sell wheat to china when they are so smart they can avoid famines. Let them figure it out on their own.
> 
> Al they had to do is set up a system of government where the central planning does not exist and farmers have control of their own land and are able to see their own harvest.
> 
> It does not help when Mao sends his people to confiscate the rice to give to his cronies while peasants are forced to eat their own children.
> 
> Maybe the smart china will set up the communist system, again. Sounds good to me.


The question is not why but these nations did but were restrained by a superpower then.

Perhaps both the Canadian and Australian Government then were acting more like *HUMAN* than politicians.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> Thats why you are in Canada? Because china is so rich and powerful? lol China cant even provide its population with safe drinking water.



Because Europeans can't have Canada all by themselves. They must share Canada with Asians.

Russian artillery shooting in Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512239109292535810
Russians using cluster incendiary artillery in Donbas.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512237151190085634

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## CAPRICORN-88

thetutle said:


> It does not help when Mao sends his people to confiscate the rice to give to his cronies while peasants are forced to eat their own children.


 Can you prove any of these alleged propaganda invented by YOU?

Those were turbulent times in the history of China as China was forced to repay back the debt she owed to Soviet Union for the weapons supplied during the Korean war. And natural disasters struck. 

So it was a matter of policy but some cadres undeniably will abused it after all the Communists were not robots but ordinary people or *HUMAN*.


----------



## thetutle

sammuel said:


> I would not gloat of I where you.
> 
> Your country would be the first to suffer . It is always the weak and poor that suffer Most when there is a world crises. You can thank Putin for that.
> 
> War in Ukraine exacerbating food crisis in the Horn of Africa​*The impact of the war in Ukraine is worsening the devastating food crisis for millions of people in the Horn of Africa, Islamic Relief is warning.*
> 
> Around 14 million people in Somalia, Ethiopia and Kenya are already in urgent need of aid due to the region’s worst drought in almost 40 years. The failure of three successive rainy seasons has destroyed livelihoods and forced families to leave their homes in search of food and water.
> 
> Now, staple foods such as wheat are becoming increasingly scarce and expensive as trade routes from Ukraine and Russia are severely disrupted. Many countries in the region usually import 60-80 per cent of their wheat from Ukraine. With these imports disrupted, the price of bread and other staple foods is rapidly rising, affecting the poorest families most of all.
> 
> Aid agencies’ limited funds are being stretched further as prices rise. In Somalia, Islamic Relief has had to reduce the number of people receiving vital food deliveries at the start of Ramadan, because there is not enough funding to match the rising prices. One thousand families will not be able to receive food aid as a result.
> 
> *Aliow Mohamed, Islamic Relief’s Country Director in Somalia, has recently visited camps in Baidoa, where people have fled the drought to try and find aid. Islamic Relief teams in the camps are providing food and shelter. He said:*
> 
> 
> _“We’ve had to reduce our food distributions by 1,000 families because of the drastic increase in food prices since the start of the Ukraine war. Prices have risen by 30 percent, and the cost of a 25kg bag of rice has gone up from $15 to $22._
> _“Life inside the camps is tough, and some people do not eat for a day or two. People share the food they receive from aid organisations such as Islamic Relief because there isn’t enough aid for everyone. Last week a family told me that they did not eat for two days because their neighbours who used to give them food are no longer receiving aid. The situation is bleak._
> _“Children and women are most affected. I met one woman who had walked for a month to reach the camp and she was eight months pregnant. We are seeing a rise in cases of child malnutrition as food becomes increasingly expensive.
> “Islamic Relief provides families with cash assistance so they can buy food in the local markets. $70 a month used to cover the basic food needs for a family of six people – now, because of rising prices, families need at least $100 a month.”_
> 
> 
> Islamic Relief is calling on international governments to act quickly and support efforts to address the growing hunger crisis in the region.
> 
> In Ethiopia, the drought and internal conflict has left huge numbers of people in need of food aid. Millions of people from the east of the country have had to migrate to the capital Addis Ababa to try and escape the drought, straining the city’s limited resources. Now the impact of the Ukraine crisis is pushing even more people into destitution.
> 
> 
> 
> the rest here :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> War in Ukraine exacerbating food crisis in the Horn of Africa - Ethiopia
> 
> 
> News and Press Release in English on Ethiopia and 4 other countries about Agriculture, Food and Nutrition, Drought and more; published on 4 Apr 2022 by Islamic Relief
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reliefweb.int
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


Despite what some simple minded think, it is not fat Americans and fat europeans that will go hungry no matter how bad things get.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Stop diverting and let returned back to the original thread. I am sorry I digressed in replying to Turtle

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## PakAlp

So Russia has been officially defeated in Ukraine, they will withdraw to some 15% of E Ukraine and stay there. What i dont understand is why the Russian generals did not realise this before hand? The impacts of sanctions? Western support for Ukraine? Etc.

War map 06/04

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## CAPRICORN-88

The point is right now, all the sanctions imposed by the US and EU is not working as the Ruble has now returned back to the level before the invasion. 

80 Ruble to a dollar. And Putin is as popular as ever in Russia. 

But high inflation is affecting every European today. Many companies may not recovered and may be closed. 

So the "*Regime Change*" admitted by Biden in Poland and denied by her Secretary of State is both funny and clumsy.


----------



## thetutle

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Ukraine don't dare launch an attack on Russia proper because they know the consequence. Russia is not damaged by this conflict. Only Ukraine is. And don't forget. Russia is nothing but China's lapdog these days. China has 10 times the population of Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> In Western law, innocent unless proven guilty.


But Ukraine did launch an attack on russia and blew up its oil storage facilities with helicopters.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512233782857777152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512233481371148290

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512232265442463745

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512226931223146499

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512226031314227203

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512225055840690181


CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Stop diverting and let returned back to the original thread. I am sorry I digressed in replying to Turtle



Stop replying to that racist. He even ask me why I live in Canada. That is so racist.



thetutle said:


> But Ukraine did launch an attack on russia and blew up its oil storage facilities with helicopters.



Very limited in scope. There were no civilian casualties and the amount of oil lost is a drop in the bucket compared to Russia's oil production.



PakAlp said:


> So Russia has been officially defeated in Ukraine, they will withdraw to some 15% of E Ukraine and stay there. What i dont understand is why the Russian generals did not realise this before hand? The impacts of sanctions? Western support for Ukraine? Etc.
> 
> War map 06/04
> View attachment 831677



Seems to be more compared to what Turkey annexed from Syria in northern Syria around Afrin and Bab.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512153607508013066

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512154456128999424

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512212102672535556

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512217065582735363

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512248186521407492


----------



## gambit

Tai Hai Chen said:


> American revolution war when the French blockaded New York.


I did not expect that far back, but if you think your China will use that as model for a blockade of Taiwan, I hope the entire PLA leadership is filled with people like you.


----------



## thetutle

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511701721449443330



If you had rubles, you will not be able to exchange them for USD anywhere for that price. The real price is 3 times higher. Have a try ion you down believe me. Buy some rubles and try to change them for USD anywhere and see how you go.


----------



## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> 60 countries have abstained...Besides, this is not the UN Security Council, so this symbolic move doesn't have any weight.



Symbolic or not , it shows Putin's isolation on this matter.

Even more countries voted to condemn Russia - 141 countries to be exact.

Your own country , Somalia , voted against Russia on both votes . . .

~


----------



## Indos

Wergeland said:


> Thats true
> but everything has a breaking point.
> No one could foresee Soviet collapse but yet it happened.



Soviet economy is communism like @jamahir supports

That system will fail eventually, now Russia has used mixed economy, the same like China and Indonesia economic system.


----------



## Indos

oberschlesier said:


> Sure, it will survive, but the cost will be significant. Economic growth was already slashed after 2014 with light sanctions. Now this will be a deep recession. ( -10+% ), they can export gas and oil, but got a embargo on western technologies, which Russia does not produce and this will hit them. Reorientation on China would be difficult, takes time and I`m not sure, if they want this...
> 
> Economic growth will be slashed by 1-2% in the EU.



There is Chinese technology which is growing rapidly, we are not like whats happen 10 years ago. Sure, many of their project will face huge hurdle like in their aerospace industry ( civilian aircraft ). 

Thanks God Indonesia doesnt buy Sukhoi superjet 100

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Indos

Wood said:


> Oil and gas is not directly sanctioned. But majority of countries (like India) cannot pay Russia in a currency that it can use. So there is an indirect sanction on Russian oil that limits its potential.



For oil there will be some shocks as not only related to transaction system but also the amount of refinery in the world that can process Russian oil which is in majority are still in Western Europe.

Regardless of that in term of currency for transaction, countries will find the solution. Just like how Russia-China can do it by using Yuan and Rubel, and also India as I have heard try to do the same.

The best thing Westerners must do is to struct deal with Iran as soon as possible, they are the one that make this energy crisis mess, they have option to soften the impact of Russia invasion which has been effecting all countries


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512237089487826961


----------



## Microsoft

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512237089487826961



Not enough, need to do more.


----------



## mazeto

After nearly 2 months of war and countless video leaks from the arena, I can discern a pattern already. 
Inspite of horrendous losses , Russian soldiers seem in control of their self and more or less behaving normally. 
Ukrainian military seems to be always high and shown gleefully perpetrating war crimes on camera, time and time again.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## gambit

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Chinese are more barbaric than Russians. Chinese blockade is severe. It involves J-20 air superiority fighters, KJ-2000 AWACs, H-6N anti ship strategic bombers, Type 055 destroyers, KQ-200 maritime patrol planes, Type 093A nuclear attack subs, J-16D electronic warfare / SEAD / DEAD jets. Any American ship or plane that tries to supply Taiwan with food will be destroyed.


This style of 'debate' is typical of 12 yrs olds. Nothing but citing specs as if that is all that matter.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## That Guy

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Too little. Russia already reverse engineered NLAW and manufacturing thousands of that to phase out aging RPG-7.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512154456128999424


@LeGenD 

This guy is making wild and unsubstantiated claims again, basically annoying everyone.



gambit said:


> This style of 'debate' is typical of 12 yrs olds. Nothing but citing specs as if that is all that matter.


Dude, the guy is a well know troll. Most of us, including a number of Chinese members, are convinced he isn't even Chinese. He used to be called "Austin Powers" and before that "ww3undertaker".

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512158001708347400

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512139574486700042

Reactions: Like Like:
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## FairAndUnbiased

thetutle said:


> Thats why you are in Canada? Because china is so rich and powerful? lol China cant even provide its population with safe drinking water.


lolwut? Chinese life expectancy, both healthy and overall, overtook the US. That happens without safe drinking water?

Where do you get your arrogance from lmao

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CAPRICORN-88

FairAndUnbiased said:


> lolwut? Chinese life expectancy, both healthy and overall, overtook the US. That happens without safe drinking water?
> 
> Where do you get your arrogance from lmao


Strangely I read many Americans who are now residing in China are saying that they prefer to stay in China and refused to go home to the US.

Is it because of longevity or life is simply good in there? No stress and plenty of friendly neighbours or worry about the kids getting shot in school. 

Anyway nobody in China is forcing them to leave.

Not unless they are working for foreign agencies.


----------



## KAL-EL

That Guy said:


> @LeGenD
> 
> Dude, the guy is a well know troll. Most of us, including a number of Chinese members, are convinced he isn't even Chinese. He used to be called "Austin Powers" and before that "ww3undertaker".



I believe he also went by the name "McDonald's cheeseburger" at one point in time.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512255537655652352


FairAndUnbiased said:


> lolwut? Chinese life expectancy, both healthy and overall, overtook the US. That happens without safe drinking water?
> 
> Where do you get your arrogance from lmao



US men average height 5'9". China men average height 5'8". Once the old generation die in China, China men average height 5'10" which is not too shabby. US men used to be more than half a foot taller than China men when US was industrialized and China was not.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Asked by Sen. Jacky Rosen, D-Nev., what more the U.S. could provide, Milley said air defense systems ― both portable systems supplied by the West and Ukraine’s longer-range surface-to-air missiles ― have proved the most effective at preventing Russian air dominance.

“For the most part, the Russian Air Force is not being very effective and that’s the reason,” Milley said.









Putin’s ‘probably given up’ on Kyiv as Ukraine war enters new phase


“I think Putin has probably given up on his effort to capture the capital city and is now focused on the south and east of the country,” says U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin.




www.defensenews.com


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512281253139169283

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512279543238869000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512286583600431113

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512287132253138945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512288357442854915

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512289006406537224


https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1512289901022171138





https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1512291474876125189


----------



## Viet

Indos said:


> Soviet economy is communism like @jamahir supports
> 
> That system will fail eventually, now Russia has used mixed economy, the same like China and Indonesia economic system.


Russia economy is less diverse than USSR. 2/3 export revenue comes from energy. 1/2 gov revenue comes from energy exports. Putin spends all efforts on industrial military complex and energy sector. He ignores most of the rest. Now with western sanctions on financial, energy and everything else Russia drops out status as major economy G20. As I predicted earlier.

Russia becomes a slave depending on Chinese and other people goodwill.


----------



## Viet

Indos said:


> There is Chinese technology which is growing rapidly, we are not like whats happen 10 years ago. Sure, many of their project will face huge hurdle like in their aerospace industry ( civilian aircraft ).
> 
> Thanks God Indonesia doesnt buy Sukhoi superjet 100
> 
> View attachment 831685


Ever bought a Russian car? Vietnam doesn’t buy superjet either. This civil aircraft project is a dead project. Without western technology imports this bird will never take off. Unless you want to risk your life on shaky russian technology. The only good thing is russian weapons. We buy it mostly because the price.

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## Indos

Viet said:


> Russia economy is less diverse than USSR. 2/3 export revenue comes from energy. 1/2 gov revenue comes from energy exports. Putin spends all efforts on industrial military complex and energy sector. He ignores most of the rest. Now with western sanctions on financial, energy and everything else Russia drops out status as major economy G20. As I predicted earlier.
> 
> Russia becomes a slave depending on Chinese and other people goodwill.



Nah, in term of export yep, but Russia still has large manufacturing that is absorbed by their domestic economy.

Your prediction ? Russia is still G 20 nations, Indonesia has already invited the nation that creates protest from US and other Western nations.

I know you hate Putin since your country and your origin country (Vietnam) will get huge effect on this invasion, particularly Vietnam military which is relying on Russian weapons

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## CAPRICORN-88

Viet said:


> Russia economy is less diverse than USSR. 2/3 export revenue comes from energy. 1/2 gov revenue comes from energy exports. Putin spends all efforts on industrial military complex and energy sector. He ignores most of the rest. Now with western sanctions on financial, energy and everything else Russia drops out status as major economy G20. As I predicted earlier.
> 
> Russia becomes a slave depending on Chinese and other people goodwill.


  

Russia economy is doing well. Export of oil in fact has increased and Ruble did not collapsed as told by a US President who often has lapses and got lost inside the White House.

Stop applying a Khmer Krom interpretation of subject you don't understand.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jamahir

Indos said:


> Soviet economy is communism like @jamahir supports
> 
> That system will fail eventually, now Russia has used mixed economy, the same like China and Indonesia economic system.



No, the USSR's socio-economic system wasn't true Communism because Communism desires for abolishment of money yet USSR had money system. Gaddafi too wrote of wanting human society to ultimately be rid of money. I quote a section from part 2 of Gaddafi's Green Book :


> The final step is for the new socialist society to reach a stage in which profit and money disappear. Society will become fully productive; the material needs of society will be met. In this final stage, profit will disappear, as will the need for money.
> 
> The recognition of profit is an acknowledgment of exploitation, for profit has no limit. Attempts so far to limit profit by various means have been reformative, not radical, intending to prohibit exploitation of man by man. The final solution lies in eradicating profit, but because profit is the dynamic force behind the economic process, eliminating profit is not a matter of decree but, rather, an outcome of the evolving socialist process. This solution can be attained when the material satisfaction of the needs of society and its members is achieved. Work to increase profit will itself lead to its final eradication.


Now since humanity doesn't have molecular replicator machines to produce things for free and since perhaps humanity needs to go to a money-less society in two steps because they have to get comfortable with the idea, for the moment we need a very simple socio-economic system where all basic necessities are free and there's an evolved money while at the same time the economic classes ( rich, middle, poor ) have been abolished and all citizens can potentially have equal access to all the other goods and services in society. In this thread I propose such a system.

As for China, it doesn't have a mixed economic system ( what do you mean by that term ? ). Although the Chinese internal money system is called Renminbi ( People's money ) China continues to have economic classes ( very rich, rich, middle, poor ), has privatization of even basic services like housing and healthcare and has the stock market system where the system allows citizens to gamble, lose money and suicide :








China - Man loses money in stock market and jumps into steel furnace


Man in China jumps into steel furnace and dies after reportedly losing money on stock exchange A steelworker was caught on surveillance camera jumping into a blast furnace in China, local police have reported The man had allegedly accrued large financial losses trading in stocks, his colleagues...



defence.pk




China must adopt a Communistic socio-economic such as the one I propose.

I will tag @Wergeland because you quote him.


----------



## Indos

jamahir said:


> As for China, it doesn't have a mixed economic system ( what do you mean by that term ? ).



Mixed economy is market and capitalism system but with government intervention and significant state owned companies present. In Indonesia , aside of state owned companies owned by Central Government, we also have province owned companies like PT Jaya (majority stake holder is Jakarta local government) that has become a conglomeration, another provinces ( total 34 provinces) also have their own companies and work in various industry including banking and oil and gas sector) and around 5000 village owned companies.


----------



## jamahir

Indos said:


> Mixed economy is market and capitalism system but with government intervention and significant state owned companies present. In Indonesia , aside of state owned companies owned by Central Government, we also have province owned companies like PT Jaya (majority stake holder is Jakarta local government) that has become a conglomeration and around 5000 village owned companies.



Well, that way even India has state-owned companies and private companies and India is the most Capitalist society in history. State ownership in some sectors was established by Nehru, the first prime minister of India, as he was a bit inspired by the USSR's system including having a five-year-plan committee called Planning Commission but he did not change the structure of India's extremely Capitalist society whether it be the stock market ( the Bombay Stock Exchange is one of the oldest in the world ) or banks that operate on interest basis or private, interest-taking money lenders or privately-owned land or the Capitalist nature of Indian families and privately-owned housing, healthcare and educational institutions. He did not make electricity and water free. There was a subsidized food public distribution system for all until the 1990s but that has since been removed for the middle and upper class and what remains is subject to propaganda by crooked political parties just before and during elections. 

Even USA has a mixed economy then. So mixed economy is just Capitalism.

Though yes, the Indonesian village-owned companies idea is nice.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Cargoes of Russian Sokol crude from the Far East have sold out for next month in a sign that shipments from the nation continue to find buyers despite Moscow facing more sanctions for its war in Ukraine.

May-loading cargoes from the Sakhalin-I project will be delivered to buyers in Japan, South Korea, China and India on a spot or term basis, said traders who asked not to be named because the information is private. Sokol yields a lot of...

Bloomberg

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## Indos

jamahir said:


> Well, that way even India has state-owned companies and private companies and India is the most Capitalist society in history. State ownership in some sectors was established by Nehru, the first prime minister of India, as he was a bit inspired by the USSR's system including having a five-year-plan committee called Planning Commission but he did not change the structure of India's extremely Capitalist society whether it be the stock market ( the Bombay Stock Exchange is one of the oldest in the world ) or banks that operate on interest basis or private, interest-taking money lenders or privately-owned land or the Capitalist nature of Indian families and privately-owned housing, healthcare and educational institutions. He did not make electricity and water free. There was a subsidized food public distribution system for all until the 1990s but that has since been removed for the middle and upper class and what remains is subject to propaganda by crooked political parties just before and during elections.
> 
> Even USA has a mixed economy then. So mixed economy is just Capitalism.
> 
> Though yes, the Indonesian village-owned companies idea is nice.



USA economy cannot be seen as mixed economy, their private sector is dominating the economy and own vital sector like electricity, oil and gas, military, banking system

Then compared to Indonesia where electricity is under a monopoly of state owned company, PT PLN who also has its own power plants, 80 % oil production in Indonesia is produced by state owned Pertamina- dwarf MNC present in Indonesia like Exxon Mobile, British Petroleum, and others

Indonesia banking sector is dominated by state owned company and even almost every province has their own bank. Out of 10 biggest banks in Indonesia, 7 are state owned, 2 biggest are state owned (Mandiri and BRI) while foreign bank has 2, and 1 private national companies but with 50 % stakes owned by public and foreign investors ( traded in Indonesia stock exchange).

Our military industry is dominated by state owned companies as well

---------------------------

Village owned company I think is closer to Communism system but this companies run with market and capitalism system.

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## jamahir

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512189685820538880





JonAsad said:


> View attachment 831669
> 
> 
> She returned the food..Brave brave Grandma.. Hope nothing bad happened to her after, off camera..



They are brave. The Ukranian military thug was talking in the manner of an extortion gangster because that's what his bunch is.



thetutle said:


> Al they had to do is set up a system of government where the central planning does not exist and farmers have control of their own land and are able to see their own harvest.



In USA there is no central planning and the farmers have private land yet some of them suicide for socio-economic reasons and others are left destitute.



thetutle said:


> It does not help when Mao sends his people to confiscate the rice to give to his cronies while peasants are forced to eat their own children.



Eat their own children ? Like how Yeonmi Park, the notorious defector girl from North Korea, said what happens in NK, LOL ? People pushing trains, people like dying by the roadside and their organs coming out, people eating rats and then rats eating people, or the other way around ?

@CAPRICORN-88 @beijingwalker @TaiShang, what is TheTutle saying ?



Indos said:


> USA economy cannot be seen as mixed economy, their private sector is dominating the economy and own vital sector like electricity, oil and gas, military, banking system



Agreed but there is at least one state-owned company - NASA but it too contracts out the systems building work to private companies which actually is not bad at all.



Indos said:


> Then compared to Indonesia where electricity is under a monopoly of state owned company, PT PLN who also has its own power plants, 80 % oil production in Indonesia is produced by state owned Pertamina- dwarf MNC present in Indonesia like Exxon Mobile, British Petroleum, and others
> 
> Indonesia banking sector is dominated by state owned company and even almost every province has their own bank. Out of 10 biggest banks in Indonesia, 7 are state owned, 2 biggest are state owned (Mandiri and BRI) while foreign bank has 2, and 1 private national companies but with 50 % stakes owned by public and foreign investors.
> 
> Our military industry is dominated by state owned companies as well



OK.



Indos said:


> Village owned company I think is closer to Communism system but this companies run with market and capitalism system.



Agreed. The community-owned and decentralized nature of these village-owned companies make them very suitable for conversion to Communist socio-economics in the future.


----------



## Corax

gambit said:


> When was the last time a sea blockade that lasted years?



Cuba, it still exists. An example of the US destroying a country purely out of spite and for daring to ever challenge it.

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## Messerschmitt

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512352376312766466

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512353398150111240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512356324910239746




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512357028332724229

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512354504196382727

Reactions: Sad Sad:
1


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## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Russia economy is doing well. Export of oil in fact has increased and Ruble did not collapsed as told by a US President who often has lapses and got lost inside the White House.
> 
> Stop applying a Khmer Krom interpretation of subject you don't understand.


You have low intellect. You eat propaganda. The ruble is overpriced. Putin manipulates the exchange rate.
You can see it by looking at Russia gov bonds.
They are traded at 20 cent per dollar.
That’s 3x worse than bonds of bankrupt Sri Lanka.
The exports performance is short lived. Putin lost all rich major customers in the west.

He now sells stuffs with deep discounts on poor customers in the East.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Viet said:


> You have low intellect. You eat propaganda. The ruble is overpriced. Putin manipulates the exchange rate.
> You can see it by looking at Russia gov bonds.
> They are traded at 20 cent per dollar.
> That’s 3x worse than bonds of bankrupt Sri Lanka.
> The exports performance is short lived. Putin lost all rich major customers in the west.
> 
> He now sells stuffs with deep discounts on poor customers in the East.


As I cite earlier. 

Quit. 

It is not a subject nor something you will understand no matter how hard you try. 

We no longer count with your fingers and toes. 

It is beyond a simple minded Khmer Krom like you. 

Right now. Russia economy is OK no matter what the US is doing. That is what even the truthful US experts are saying today. 

The US and allies have run out of sanctions. 

And so out of frustration they decided Russia should leave G20 as though she can still dictate whatever she wants. 

The US was the sole superpower at the turn of the Century but don't tell that to a Khmer Krom who is still dreaming inside a dog hole 
or 
bother to inform him that the Chinese North Vietnamese are now in charge of the new Vietnam
or 
NAM was all over long time ago. 

He is still living hopelessly lingering to the past.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Type59

Ukrainian military resisting in urban areas is seen as "heroic". Palestinians done same in Gaza were held responsible for civilian casualties.

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## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> As I cite earlier.
> 
> Quit.
> 
> It is not a subject nor something you will understand no matter how hard you try.
> 
> We no longer count with your fingers and toes.
> 
> It is beyond a simple minded Khmer Krom like you.
> 
> Right now. Russia economy is OK no matter what the US is doing. That is what even the truthful US experts are saying today.
> 
> The US and allies have run out of sanctions.
> 
> And so out of frustration they decided Russia should leave G20 as though she can still dictate whatever she wants.
> 
> The US was the sole superpower at the turn of the Century but don't tell that to a Khmer Krom who is still dreaming inside a dog hole
> or
> bother to inform him that the Chinese North Vietnamese are now in charge of the new Vietnam
> or
> NAM was all over long time ago.
> 
> He is still living hopelessly lingering to the past.


Russia economy ok? Man, you are delusional. Putin receives some money as before the war. However Russia middle class is finished. They lost everything they used to be. Holiday on Vietnam great beaches, spending money on overpriced French bags in Paris, buying Huawei spy phone in Beijing, eating McDonald burgers in Moscow. For Russian poor they get poorer. For Russian rich they lost their money and yachts in the West.
Aeroflot can’t fly anywhere, the only destination is Mink.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Viet said:


> Russia economy ok? Man, you are delusional. Putin receives some money as before the war. However Russia middle class is finished. They lost everything they used to be. Holiday on Vietnam great beaches, spending money on overpriced French bags in Paris, buying Huawei spy phone in Beijing, eating McDonald burgers in Moscow. For Russian poor they get poorer. For Russian rich they lost their money and yachts in the West.
> Aeroflot can’t fly anywhere, the only destination is Mink.


Go back into your dog hole and stop *trolling*.

Russia economy is OK despite whatever sanction the UK and EU may throw at them. They are not working.

Russia is a *net surplus nation*.

Russia has offers to pay their bond holders in ruble and that is until EU unfrozen the foreign reserves held in their banks.

If they don't like it they can sue Russia or perhaps the US and EU for their illegal sanctions against Russia.

Meanwhile the Swiss has silently removed their sanction against the Russia banks.

It only lasted 2 days.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Yes. There will be a declination in Russia GDP this year which will have no impact on Russian generally.

So what? It is all anticipated.
Russia can weather them.

When Russia replaced EU goods with lower costing Made in China goods, it means better value for money exchange.

Russians are happy and so are the sellers in China.

Soon Russian supermarkets like their Western counterparts or elsewhere will be filled with Chinese consumer goods that are value for money.

Ruble is now back to the level before the invasion started 6 weeks ago.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512342019691196418

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512371904711065607

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512375161655226372

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512364614528352257


----------



## thetutle

jamahir said:


> In USA there is no central planning and the farmers have private land yet some of them suicide for socio-economic reasons and others are left destitute.
> 
> 
> 
> Eat their own children ? Like how Yeonmi Park, the notorious defector girl from North Korea, said what happens in NK, LOL ? People pushing trains, people like dying by the roadside and their organs coming out, people eating rats and then rats eating people, or the other way around ?



You do know that 30 million Chinese died in a famine in the late 1960's. Just let that sink in.

And now you have forumers telling us that this same country that today cannot provide its citizens in the capital city with clean drinking water will dominate the west. Its pretty sad and a bit funny at the same time.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wergeland

jamahir said:


> No, the USSR's socio-economic system wasn't true Communism because Communism desires for abolishment of money yet USSR had money system. Gaddafi too wrote of wanting human society to ultimately be rid of money. I quote a section from part 2 of Gaddafi's Green Book :
> 
> Now since humanity doesn't have molecular replicator machines to produce things for free and since perhaps humanity needs to go to a money-less society in two steps because they have to get comfortable with the idea, for the moment we need a very simple socio-economic system where all basic necessities are free and there's an evolved money while at the same time the economic classes ( rich, middle, poor ) have been abolished and all citizens can potentially have equal access to all the other goods and services in society. In this thread I propose such a system.
> 
> As for China, it doesn't have a mixed economic system ( what do you mean by that term ? ). Although the Chinese internal money system is called Renminbi ( People's money ) China continues to have economic classes ( very rich, rich, middle, poor ), has privatization of even basic services like housing and healthcare and has the stock market system where the system allows citizens to gamble, lose money and suicide :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China - Man loses money in stock market and jumps into steel furnace
> 
> 
> Man in China jumps into steel furnace and dies after reportedly losing money on stock exchange A steelworker was caught on surveillance camera jumping into a blast furnace in China, local police have reported The man had allegedly accrued large financial losses trading in stocks, his colleagues...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China must adopt a Communistic socio-economic such as the one I propose.
> 
> I will tag @Wergeland because you quote him.



One interpretation of the Communism-Capitalism struggle is the Semitic aspect. Where those two ideological systems are reflections of the internal struggle between traditional Judaic factions. Between those who are puritanical and socialistic vs the capitalist and less puritanical. Between the priest class and banking class.

I dont know how true this interpretation is or not but it gives some meaning from certain angles. Of course this was not a sole Jewish internal struggle but rather something that was intertwined with the major currents in extant societies and theathers.

Totally off-topic but for the curiousity it can be mentioned that when Roman-Byzantine forces first time encountered Islamic forces, many governors and maybe even Emperor Heraclius himself, seemed to have concluded that Muslims were just another radical Jewish sect like the Maccabis.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512339033204359171

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512337901354635265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512335477730603008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512334165840379905

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Ruble is now back to the level before the invasion started 6 weeks ago.


have you tried changing your rubles for dollars at that rate? give it a try


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512316375942926338

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512306988650172418

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512255947988643841

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512357413374119940

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## CAPRICORN-88

thetutle said:


> have you tried changing your rubles for dollars at that rate? give it a try


That is the exchange rate. 

And you will have to pay for Russian Oil or Gas in Ruble if you want them because your country is classified as unfriendly.    

You can't and that is because of the silly sanction imposed by your own country. 

You can't blame Russia for that. 

Ruble is now pegged to Gold.

At 5000 Ruble per gram.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512361828994670593

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512363334988967936

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512364608929116165

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512364831906619393

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## CAPRICORN-88

It is 79.83 Ruble to 1 US dollar.


----------



## thetutle

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> That is the exchange rate.
> 
> And you will have to pay for Russian Oil or Gas in Ruble if you want them because your country is classified as unfriendly.
> 
> You can't and that is because of the silly sanction imposed by your own country.
> 
> You can't blame Russia for that.
> 
> Ruble is now pegged to Gold.
> 
> At 5000 Ruble per gram.


All I am saying is go and buy some rubles. then try to change your rubles back into USD. And see the price you get, if you find a sucker that will change them


----------



## jamahir

thetutle said:


> You do know that 30 million Chinese died in a famine in the late 1960's. Just let that sink in.
> 
> And now you have forumers telling us that this same country that today cannot provide its citizens in the capital city with clean drinking water will dominate the west. Its pretty sad and a bit funny at the same time.



Well, the Chinese should answer on that, their POV.



Wergeland said:


> One interpretation of the Communism-Capitalism struggle is the Semitic aspect. Where those two ideological systems are reflections of the internal struggle between traditional Judaic factions. Between those who are puritanical and socialistic vs the capitalist and less puritanical. Between the priest class and banking class.
> 
> I dont know how true this interpretation is or not but it gives some meaning from certain angles. Of course this was not a sole Jewish internal struggle but rather something that was intertwined with the major currents in extant societies and theathers.



I am a Muslim so from a Semitic religion but a South Asian so probably not with Semitic ancestry. While I believe in most of Communism's desires I also speak for the means of production for at least the non-basic things to be private, for companies to be private. So where does that place me ? 



Wergeland said:


> Totally off-topic but for the curiousity it can be mentioned that when Roman-Byzantine forces first time encountered Islamic forces, many governors and maybe even Emperor Heraclius himself, seemed to have concluded that Muslims were just another radical Jewish sect like the Maccabis.



Very interesting. Thanks for the info.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

thetutle said:


> All I am saying is go and buy some rubles. then try to change your rubles back into USD. And see the price you get, if you find a sucker that will change them


Why do I want to do that when I am not even prepared to do that with US dollar? It prove nothing and a complete waste of my productive time.


----------



## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Go back into your dog hole and stop *trolling*.
> 
> Russia economy is OK despite whatever sanction the UK and EU may throw at them. They are not working.
> 
> Russia is a *net surplus nation*.
> 
> Russia has offers to pay their bond holders in ruble and that is until EU unfrozen the foreign reserves held in their banks.
> 
> If they don't like it they can sue Russia or perhaps the US and EU for their illegal sanctions against Russia.
> 
> Meanwhile the Swiss has silently removed their sanction against the Russia banks.
> 
> It only lasted 2 days.


Net surplus nonsense
There is imbalance in trades.
Russia imports shrink because the west stops all technology and other exports to Russia. Germany and Japan even forbid exporting luxury cars and watches to Russia.
Russia Gdp will shrink between 10 and 20 percent this year.
If Putin reduces all imports to 0 then net surplus will explode. Ok do it.
A currency of an economy that shrinks can’t increase in value.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512366726893215744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512367689154637832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512378210461364231

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512396180394856450
Russia: We don't use Tochka-U missiles.
*evidence shows that Russia does use Tochka-U missiles*
Russia: Ok, we use Tochka-U missiles but those are Belarusian actually.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Why do I want to do that when I am not even prepared to do that with US dollar? It prove nothing and a complete waste of my productive time.


You can do that to see for yourself that the stop exchange rate is bogus and simply used by russia to take USD from its own companies and citizens. 

The relaity is that the real exchange rate is over 200 to the dollar if you can find someone to take your rubles. But you wont find such a person. No one is going to take your rubles. Not even a Russian bank.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Viet said:


> Net surplus nonsense
> There is imbalance in trades.
> Russia imports shrink because the west stops all technology and other exports to Russia. Germany and Japan even forbid exporting luxury cars and watches to Russia.
> Russia Gdp will shrink between 10 and 20 percent this year.
> If Putin reduces all imports to 0 then net surplus will explode. Ok do it.
> A currency of an economy that shrinks can’t increase in value.


Go back ans hibernate in your dog hole and stop *trolling*. 

Russia is neither your home or business.


----------



## Wergeland

jamahir said:


> Well, the Chinese should answer on that, their POV.
> 
> 
> 
> I am a Muslim so from a Semitic religion but a South Asian so probably not with Semitic ancestry. While I believe in most of Communism's desires I also speak for the means of production for at least the non-basic things to be private, for companies to be private. So where does that place me ?
> 
> 
> 
> Very interesting. Thanks for the info.



Bro, IMO it is not a surprise that socialism or atleast traditional welfare oriented currents have recieved huge support among muslims in general.
Muslims living in the west usually vote for socialistic parties. Sometime because they are viewed as more immigrant friendly, but even second and third generation highly educated, and affluent muslims seems to prefer socialistic models. Which is not a big surprise, as we know that welfare state was in many ways a Islamic invention. Saudi Arabia forexample is a welfare society, Libiya too was that, before it was destroyed.

Going by your political stand (pardon if i am wrong), i would say its actually as Islamic as it gets. By that i mean, the ideal islamic value.
For Islamic economic principle try to balance the needs of the society (poor, sick, worker rights etc.) and the need of the individual (property rights, trade practices, entrepreneurs etc.).
To conclude: Islamic economic values are neither fully communistic or capitalistic. It falls somewhere in between.

I always like to say that my home country Norway, from purely economical POV, probably is the best example of how good a society can be, if Islamic economical principles are implemented correctly. But as we say, ideologies are just that, ideas. And its interpretations will always be heavily eschewed by the mind of leadership of a nation.

In Norway we say "To read The Bible as the devil does". Sadly there are too many egos among muslims today, which IMO is the root problem of muslim disunity and proverty.
Scandinavians always have a soft side for the common good. To be honest and sincere is a ethos. Which explains the success we enjoy.
I happily pay my taxes, so too does a majority of population here, including the very rich.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CAPRICORN-88

April 7 (Reuters) - Russia's central bank said on Thursday that due to a "significant change in market conditions" it would buy gold from commercial banks at a negotiated price from April 8.

On March 25, the bank had said it would buy gold at a fixed price of 5,000 roubles a gram until June 30. read more

Since that announcement, the rouble has strengthened sharply against the dollar. Five thousand roubles was worth around $52 on March 25 and around $63 on Thursday.

Gold prices on the international market have remained stable at around $60 a gram, or $1,900 an ounce.

Russia is one of the world's biggest gold producers, but the country's refiners were barred from selling bullion into the London market, the world's largest, after the Kremlin sent troops into Ukraine in February.

($1 = 78.6830 roubles)


----------



## RoadAmerica

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Yes. There will be a declination in Russia GDP this year which will have no impact on Russian generally.
> 
> So what? It is all anticipated.
> Russia can weather them.
> 
> When Russia replaced EU goods with lower costing Made in China goods, it means better value for money exchange.
> 
> Russians are happy and so are the sellers in China.
> 
> Soon Russian supermarkets like their Western counterparts or elsewhere will be filled with Chinese consumer goods that are value for money.
> 
> Ruble is now back to the level before the invasion started 6 weeks ago.


Omg where do you come up with this crap, everything you typed is false


----------



## mmr

thetutle said:


> You can do that to see for yourself that the stop exchange rate is bogus and simply used by russia to take USD from its own companies and citizens.
> 
> The relaity is that the real exchange rate is over 200 to the dollar if you can find someone to take your rubles. But you wont find such a person. No one is going to take your rubles. Not even a Russian bank.


You are wasting your time argument with a moron.

I suggest talk to average Russian international students who live in Australia and you will know the reality.

They have extreme capital controls so much so international students from Russia having hard time to bring Tution and living expenses. And in black market Russian parents buying dollar in way higher rate. Parents are forced to buy from black market to send money to these students.


----------



## jamahir

Wergeland said:


> Bro, IMO it is not a surprise that socialism or atleast traditional welfare oriented currents have recieved huge support among muslims in general.
> Muslims living in the west usually vote for socialistic parties. Sometime because they are viewed as more immigrant friendly, but even second and third generation highly educated, and affluent muslims seems to prefer socialistic models. Which is not a big surprise, as we know that welfare state was in many ways a Islamic invention. Saudi Arabia forexample is a welfare society, Libiya too was that, before it was destroyed.
> 
> Going by your political stand (pardon if i am wrong), i would say its actually as Islamic as it gets. By that i mean, the ideal islamic value.
> For Islamic economic principle try to balance the needs of the society (poor, sick, worker rights etc.) and the need of the individual (property rights, trade practices, entrepreneurs etc.).
> To conclude: Islamic economic values are neither fully communistic or capitalistic. It falls somewhere in between.
> 
> I always like to say that my home country Norway, from purely economical POV, probably is the best example of how good a society can be, if Islamic economical principles are implemented correctly. But as we say ideologies are just that, ideas. And its interpretations will always be heavily eschewed by the mind of leadership of a nation.
> 
> In Norway we say "To read The Bible as the devil does". Sadly there are too many egos among muslims today, which IMO is the root problem of muslim disunity and proverty.
> Scandinavians always have a soft side for the common good. To be honest and sincere is a ethos. Which explains the success we enjoy.
> I happily pay my taxes, so too does a majority of population here, including the very rich.



1. Some Muslims do really quote the Scandinavian model as being more Islamic than most Muslim-majority societies though one thing I object is the tax system because I believe that income tax and other taxes on the citizen are an obsolete artifact of the era of monarchy and feudalism.

2. However, I agree with the underlined sentence of yours.

3. Yes, the Welfare Society concept is essentially an Islamic invention with is advantages and somethings that remained to be done. Your are correct that Islam is neither fully Communist nor entirely Capitalist. I will in two days or so write to you in 'Whatever' thread on this.

4. Indeed, the Libyan Jamahiriya was a Socialist-Communist welfare society though I am surprised that you consider Saudia as one. What are all the items you tick and consider it so ?

5. Yes, among Muslims today are the priests / ritualists who are put up as puppets by the Anglo countries to wage war and sabotage against the progressive Muslims.

6. Unfortunately, many Muslims in the West today are not contributory members of society but since they have regressive, non-Islamic ideas like being members and followers of the misinformed and misguided Tableeghi Jamaat and such others like Dawah Man and that Hijab fellow, both in Britain, they are used by USA, Canada, Britain and France against progressive Muslim individuals, movements and countries.

7. Lastly, you are correct that my political and socio-economic stands are quite Islamic and I see the teachings of Prophet Jesus, Prophet Muhammad and the later ideas of Marx and other Communists to be quite suitable to meld into each other.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512358381557882881

Horrific attack from the Russian Nazis


----------



## gambit

Corax said:


> Cuba, it still exists. An example of the US destroying a country purely out of spite and for daring to ever challenge it.


A blockade is a physical barrier, specifically a *MILITARY* naval kind. There is none. And you might want to look up who trades with Cuba and since there are trades with Cuba, that mean there is no naval blockade.


----------



## sammuel

~

Seems the Russians authorities have found a way to stop the looting Problem.

Instead of confiscating looted stuff or punishing their soldiers ,they came up with a much better solution.

They simply ordered all the CDEK postal services near Ukrainian border , to switch off their live feeds.









Reminder :











__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512042218525241347




~

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512362628441845764


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512397465189765125

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1


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## Wood

In his last twitter thread, Kamil has pointed to similarities between the Russian Z operation and Soviet's 'Operation Danube' in 1968. The operational similarities between the two invasions are eerily similar and cannot be overlooked. People who are interested can read his thread and post your take. Putin's plan bungled because he went in with just 200K troops while the SU went in with 500K troops into a much smaller country like CZ 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511528781516730368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511528832792244225


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

mmr said:


> You are wasting your time argument with a moron.
> 
> I suggest talk to average Russian international students who live in Australia and you will know the reality.
> 
> They have extreme capital controls so much so international students from Russia having hard time to bring Tution and living expenses. And in black market Russian parents buying dollar in way higher rate. Parents are forced to buy from black market to send money to these students.


Yes. You are right.

  

So many ignorant morons in here.

Did you include yourself in the list?

Buying US dollars from the black market is the only option for unaverage and pathetic Russian students who has only rubles in the land down under headed by who is the guy in the corner? (That what Biden said). Ruble is not included in the SDR and so is many currencies. 

That was eversince Russia ditched the US dollar and excluded its from its foreign reserve a year ago.

So what is so surprising?

  

Does that means Russia economy is in deep shit?

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512320051575205888





Its offical guys its all becose of this :

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## CAPRICORN-88

RoadAmerica said:


> Omg where do you come up with this crap, everything you typed is false


Perhaps you are reading a different crap and believe only American craps are for real. 

Don't blame you as most Americans thought Ukraine is next to India and India is in Africa.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512428846636744706

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512428846636744706


The real effect of sanctions will come to bear in a year or two - if the sanctions are kept that long.


----------



## mmr

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Yes. You are right.
> 
> 
> 
> So many ignorant morons in here.
> 
> Did you include yourself in the list?
> 
> Buying US dollars from the black market is the only option for unaverage and pathetic Russian students who has only rubles in the land down under headed by who is the guy in the corner? (That what Biden said). Ruble is not included in the SDR and so is many currencies.
> 
> That was eversince Russia ditched the US dollar and excluded its from its foreign reserve a year ago.
> 
> So what is so surprising?
> 
> 
> 
> Does that means Russia economy is in deep shit?


Russian ppl cant buy dollar or euro in official rate. End of story.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512428846636744706


Will only get worse once eu start to get rid off russian energy in next few years.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

mmr said:


> Russian ppl cant buy dollar or euro in official rate. End of story.


Who or which nation started all this nonsense? 

Period and also end of story.

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## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512397465189765125











Slovakia says it has given S-300 air defence system to Ukraine


Prime Minister Eduard Heger says donation does not mean the NATO member joined the war.




www.aljazeera.com





Slovakia says it has given S-300 air defence system to Ukraine​

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## CAPRICORN-88

Which nation illegally transfered payment meant for Venezuela Oil thru SWIFT into us banks?

Which nation stole Gold belonging to Afghanistan? 

Which nation...

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512320051575205888
> View attachment 831864
> 
> 
> Its offical guys its all becose of this :
> 
> View attachment 831867




I’d get drunk too if I had to peddle Putins lies everyday

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512192052099956739

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512446252675436548

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512446303267086342

Reactions: Like Like:
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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509275649969733637

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512404833709535234
Looks like they are realy close to Kherson

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512437642998296578

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512432645778591747


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512450961410863106

Ukrainian forces in Mauripol have been getting resupplied for weeks.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512430894342094851

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512434328608858118

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512438298526027783

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512438195107078157

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512438986555416582

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512442712196325381

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509275649969733637
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512404833709535234
> Looks like they are realy close to Kherson



Seems like without fuel Ukrainian soldiers are only able to move around on foot. Not gonna be able to take a heavily defended provincial capital this way.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512454557984595979


----------



## bobo6661

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512454557984595979


those guys are pure PR, when they went to battle most of them got killed near kiev 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497659229037113349

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## Primus

bobo6661 said:


> those guys are pure PR, when they went to battle most of them got killed near kiev
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497659229037113349


Hes alive

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## Vergennes

Azov at work. 



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512451745078722573


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512458527922610176

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512458527922610176



Can't take Kherson on foot only.


----------



## Messerschmitt

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512454557984595979


I wonder which invisible enemy they are fighting this time for Tiktok.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Muslims shooting up the bad people in Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512453795338498064


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512423178420817924

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511447997195997202


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512423178420817924
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511447997195997202



They can probably upgrade that to T-72B3M / B4 standard which is on par with M1A2.









T-72B3M Main Battle Tank


Understand the impact of the Ukraine conflict from a cross-sector perspective with the Global Data Executive Briefing: Ukraine Conflict T-72B3M, also referred to as T-72B4, is an upgraded variant of the T-72B3 main battle tank (MBT) developed by Uralvagonzavod Research and Production...




www.army-technology.com













T-72B3M T-72B4 MBT Main Battle Tank technical data fact sheet | Russia Russian army tank heavy armoured vehicles U | Russia Russian army military equipment vehicles UK


T-72B3M T-72B4 MBT main battle tank Russia technical data fact sheet pictures video




www.armyrecognition.com


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512420162628210689

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512447743935098881


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512367311923130369


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512367311923130369



Russia don't use Tochka U. Russia only uses Iskander. This Tochka was likely fired by Ukrainians as false flag.









OTR-21 Tochka - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





While it is possible Russia backed rebels fired a Tochka U, it is highly unlikely.


----------



## bobo6661

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia don't use Tochka U since 10 years ago. Russia only uses Iskander. This Tochka was fired by Ukrainians as false flag.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509099435262976000

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512425777446465546


----------



## DF41

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Which nation illegally transfered payment meant for Venezuela Oil thru SWIFT into us banks?
> 
> Which nation stole Gold belonging to Afghanistan?
> 
> Which nation...










Pompeo is typical of all Americans.

As we seen to lie, to cheat and to steal

*To Make America Great Again *

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512330317901844481


----------



## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512291474876125189




__





《喀秋莎》小女孩演唱_哔哩哔哩_bilibili


v.360kan.com, 视频播放量 2560、弹幕量 4、点赞数 20、投硬币枚数 3、收藏人数 22、转发人数 10, 视频作者 Red英特纳雄耐尔, 作者简介 天下为公，相关视频：《喀秋莎》，本人超喜欢的一个版本，16岁俄罗斯少女演唱喀秋莎，中俄混血女孩演唱喀秋莎，【叶卡捷琳娜】乌拉！乌拉！杀疯了！，俄罗斯经典名曲《喀秋莎》完整版，经典苏联歌曲《喀秋莎》俄语原版，配上风姿绰约的俄罗斯女兵，眼睛让人挪不开，手把手教你唱俄语版《 喀秋莎》，逐字逐句，包教包会！！，小女孩演唱喀秋莎...




m.bilibili.com


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509099435262976000



For rebels only. Russia only uses Iskander.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512445410379448325

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512442712196325381

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512438195107078157

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512438298526027783

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512434328608858118

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512430412525625354

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512342293063385088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512350710259671040
Urgent | Russian Foreign Ministry: Kyiv will not escape responsibility for the incident of striking the train station in Kramatorsk

@AJABreaking


----------



## Primus

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512434328608858118
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512430412525625354
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512342293063385088
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512350710259671040
> Urgent | Russian Foreign Ministry: Kyiv will not escape responsibility for the incident of striking the train station in Kramatorsk
> 
> @AJABreaking


WOOHOO no submerged tanks or vehicles that fell off the pontoon bridge


----------



## The SC

Su-25 attack aircraft are involved in the destruction of fortified areas of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Donbass. Images from Amvrosievka.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512335440656932864

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512486511480090625


----------



## Piotr

Russian Forces Destroy Training Centre for Mercenaries Northeast of Odessa - Video​11 hours ago






On 24 February, Russia launched a military operation in Ukraine after the breakaway republics of Donetsk and Lugansk appealed for help in defending themselves against Ukrainian forces.
The Russian Armed Forces have destroyed a training centre for foreign mercenaries in the Odessa area with high-precision missiles from a Bastion coastal defence complex, Russian Defence Ministry spokesman Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said.

"High-precision missiles from the Bastion coastal missile system near the village of Krasnoselka, northeast of Odessa, destroyed a foreign mercenary training centre", he said.

The Russian Armed Forces have destroyed more than 400 drones and 2,000 armoured vehicles during the special operation, Igor Konashenkov said on Friday.

"In total, since the beginning of the special military operation, 97 helicopters, 421 unmanned aerial vehicles, 228 long-range and medium-range anti-aircraft missile systems, 2,019 tanks and other armoured combat vehicles, 223 multiple rocket launchers, 874 field artillery and mortars, and also 1,917 units of special military vehicles", Konashenkov said.
Russian combat aircraft and missile forces hit another 81 Ukrainian military targets, he added. According to him, Russian air defence systems shot down two Ukrainian helicopters and five drones, including two Bayraktar TB-2s.
On February 24, Russia launched a military operation in Ukraine after the breakaway republics of Donetsk and Lugansk appealed for help in defending themselves against Ukrainian provocations. The Russian Defence Ministry said the operation is targeting Ukrainian military infrastructure only, but later accused Ukrainian forces of using typical terrorist methods, such as hiding behind civilians and positioning weapons systems in civilian areas.
In response, the West rolled out a comprehensive sanctions campaign against Moscow, which includes airspace closures and restrictive measures targeting numerous Russian officials and entities, media and financial institutions.


https://sputniknews.com/20220408/ru...northeast-of-odessa-mod-says--1094580896.html

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## The SC

Mariupol map acc Vladlen TatarZky 08.04.2022


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512489805447417867

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512488858100899843

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512482006512381955


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512413502295654406


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512478948940140548


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512449397111640068


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512338468751687686

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512487913426386946

This is what you call cannon fodder, and tells me how poorly the war has gone for Russia. 

Most of those reservists are untrained and will be equipped with ancient weapons.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512386009421557763

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512348114254020609


----------



## Viet

Putin will get a red face. Xi as well.
Germany has no objection to Sweden and Finland joining the NATO.





__





Ukraine-Krieg befeuert NATO-Debatte in Finnland und Schweden


In hohem Tempo richten Finnland und Schweden ihre Sicherheitspolitik neu aus. Der Zeitpunkt für einen NATO-Beitritt scheint günstig –...




m.faz.net

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512386024399376389


----------



## zartosht

*Some really bad news for delusional western media consumers:

Ruble has rebounded big time*.... almost back to its pre-war level. regardless of everything the west threw at it. The reason? Because its actually linked to physical wealth like energy and gold.. looks like western sanctions are starting to lose their potency.... Its the natural law of diminishing returns at play. what exactly backs the USD/Euro?

Russians are also twice as optimistic about their future from pre-war









Most Russians optimistic about future, more united against external sanctions: experts - Global Times







www.globaltimes.cn





Even western analysts are grudgingly accepting that instead of their delusional hopes that Russians would overthrow putin, The Russians are doing what they have always done in their history.

Unite and fight the enemy with everything you have. Now add in the largest nuclear arsenal on earth, and you begin to realize the fire these dumb neocons are getting the world into. Ukraine is an existential battle for Russia.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512330712506159104


----------



## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512487913426386946
> 
> This is what you call cannon fodder, and tells me how poorly the war has gone for Russia.
> 
> Most of those reservists are untrained and will be equipped with ancient weapons.


That means Putin throws half of recruits into the war. Not bad. Many of these young men will not return alive. What a waste of human lives.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512326590365057027

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512323979633168385

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512315004435013637

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512324988317179904


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512340125002440705


----------



## Viet

Russia armed forces has 186 battalions. From this fighting force Putin has deployed 66 percent to Ukraine. So there is still some Putin will send to be slaughtered in Ukraine.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512171517500661767


----------



## Viet




----------



## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512487913426386946
> 
> This is what you call cannon fodder, and tells me how poorly the war has gone for Russia.
> 
> Most of those reservists are untrained and will be equipped with ancient weapons.


Wont make any difference.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512060218850512899

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512056876808220676

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512023438562676739


----------



## OldTwilight

Viet said:


> That means Putin throws half of recruits into the war. Not bad. Many of these young men will not return alive. What a waste of human lives.


this mean regardless of result , they will have more than 400,000 experience troops which will be a valuable assets for Russia in next 30 years ... 


side note : I thought the lost 200,000 solders ( which is very unlikely ) ...


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511717064255455233


----------



## OldTwilight

mmr said:


> Wont make any difference.



Well , Russians need to just send them in low risk area for 1-2 month , then they will become prepared for actual offensive operation , ... 
there is always a quality in quantity ... 
if Ukrainian can adapt , then Russians will do as well ...


well , fighting Russians after this war will be very suicidal ...

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512501458436071427

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512402512254541829

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512404086196473857


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512496104654393344

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512474387483660297

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## oberschlesier

Indos said:


> There is Chinese technology which is growing rapidly, we are not like whats happen 10 years ago. Sure, many of their project will face huge hurdle like in their aerospace industry ( civilian aircraft ).
> 
> Thanks God Indonesia doesnt buy Sukhoi superjet 100
> 
> View attachment 831685


China does manufacturing. Most of the know how still comes for the West. Sure, they are making progress and are successful in many fields. I just think, that autoritarism, does not go well with innovation.

Anyway for Russia, if you were taking technologies for 30 + years from the West and now you need to change the vector, this will be a shock and what they will get from China will be DIFFERENT. It`s not only about the aircraft, I`m talking about more trival things e.g. Russia want to increase Cheese production. Great. The Production line is German made. The line breaks, they ask a German company for parts and in many cases, the company would answer: "Nope, get out from Ukraine". In the end they wil just run out of ball bearings.

Regarding SS100, I remember, I got a great advertisement when it crashed in Indonesia couple of years ago.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512490136210227207


----------



## oberschlesier

OldTwilight said:


> Well , Russians need to just send them in low risk area for 1-2 month , then they will become prepared for actual offensive operation , ...
> there is always a quality in quantity ...
> if Ukrainian can adapt , then Russians will do as well ...
> 
> 
> well , fighting Russians after this war will be very suicidal ...


Well, how much of equipment will still Russia have after this war ?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512470180848353282

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512259798326161412

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512206058927935495

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512408629655351297

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512176574044454920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512406018956931082

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512359991948328961

Reactions: Like Like:
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## mmr

OldTwilight said:


> Well , Russians need to just send them in low risk area for 1-2 month , then they will become prepared for actual offensive operation , ...
> there is always a quality in quantity ...
> if Ukrainian can adapt , then Russians will do as well ...
> 
> 
> well , fighting Russians after this war will be very suicidal ...


They have no motivation. NATO will keep sending arms for long time. 

After this war...no one will take russia seriously.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Soldier35

The artillery of Russia and the Servicemen of the People's Militia began to use propaganda shells in Mariupol at the Azovstal combine. 122-mm propaganda shells 1AZH instead of the warhead are filled with passes and leaflets for the voluntary surrender of servicemen of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Propaganda leaflets are placed in steel half-cylinders of shells.






The S-300 anti-aircraft missile systems of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed by the strikes of high-precision weapons of Russia. The coordinates of the location of the S-300 air defense system of Ukraine were established with the help of electronic intelligence






Slovak media reported that Slovakia handed over to Ukraine as a military aid its only division of the Soviet-made S-300PMU anti-aircraft missile system. The transfer of the S-300PMU SAM occurred on the condition that the Western Allies would supply new air defense systems as compensation. According to media reports, instead of the C-300s that have left Ukraine, American Patriot air defense systems will take over combat duty in Slovakia.






The United States announced the supply of new Switchblade kamikaze drones to Ukraine. Despite the jubilation that has gripped individual representatives of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the Russian air defense, which was confirmed by the practice of special operations in Ukraine, confidently strikes the UAV of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The Switchblade drone is available in two versions, anti-personnel and anti-tank.


----------



## Viet

Oh that’s quick.
EU chief von der Leyen says Ukraine can get the Ok from the commission to join the EU within weeks.









Von der Leyen in Kiew: "Ukraine gehört zur europäischen Familie"


EU-Kommissionschefin von der Leyen hat der Ukraine Hoffnung auf einen schnellen Beitritt in die Europäische Union gemacht. Zuvor hatte sie sich ein Bild vom zerstörten Ort Butscha gemacht.




www.tagesschau.de

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## That Guy

The amount of copium intake by the Russophiles in this thread is hilarious.



Viet said:


> Oh that’s quick.
> EU chief von der Leyen says Ukraine can get the Ok from the commission to join the EU within weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Von der Leyen in Kiew: "Ukraine gehört zur europäischen Familie"
> 
> 
> EU-Kommissionschefin von der Leyen hat der Ukraine Hoffnung auf einen schnellen Beitritt in die Europäische Union gemacht. Zuvor hatte sie sich ein Bild vom zerstörten Ort Butscha gemacht.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tagesschau.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 832047


It would stabilize Ukraine's economy and guarantee supply and funds for Ukraine's war efforts.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

oberschlesier said:


> Well, how much of equipment will still Russia have after this war ?



More than before the war started. Once Donbas is annexed into Russia and Crimea recognized which are the condition Ukraine must accept in exchange for peace.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512191165646487554

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511925827084365827
https://www.rokfin.com/post/81731/T...-US-Info-War-Against-Russia-with-Scott-Ritter

Reactions: Like Like:
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## bobo6661

Energy Minister: Russian soldiers who were in Chornobyl have a year to live at most​








Energy Minister: Russian soldiers who were in Chornobyl have a year to live at most


Friday, 8 April 2022, 18:47 – Ekonomichna Pravda




www.pravda.com.ua

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512515341703860229

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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----------



## That Guy

sur said:


> -
> Old Ukrainian lady who returned the food from soldier on learning that he was Ukrainian soldier:
> 
> View attachment 832054


Lol, Z is totally not a cult. Yup.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511519742741614593

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511513503177314309

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

sammuel said:


> Symbolic or not , it shows Putin's isolation on this matter.
> 
> Even more countries voted to condemn Russia - 141 countries to be exact.
> 
> Your own country , Somalia , voted against Russia on both votes . . .
> 
> ~



Check your facts, you supporter of the mass-murdering and apartheid entity of IsraHell. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512122242683260930

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512122242683260930


----------



## Primus

That Guy said:


> Lol, Z is totally not a cult. Yup.


Z is used as a means to identify friendly units in battle. 

Its similar to the coalition ^ on their vehicles which could be seen during the GW and Iraq War (see below) 







I have seen LOTS of people (including me) use this same marking in social media, games etc etc. I dont see people calling a bad thing or a cult symbol.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## sur

-
Old Ukrainian lady who returned the food from soldier on learning that he was Ukrainian soldier:







That Guy said:


> Lol, Z is totally not a cult. Yup.



Get a grip:

Reactions: Like Like:
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1 | Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

🇷🇺🇺🇦Statement of the Joint Coordination Headquarters for Humanitarian Response in Ukraine (April 8, 2022)

▫️The Russian Federation takes a daily initiative to the Ukrainian side to exchange prisoners.

▫️On April 5, 2022, an agreement was reached with the Ukrainian side to exchange 251 servicemen. Within 24 hours, the number of prisoners of war was steadily declining. As a result, the list agreed at the last stage included only 38 servicemen, which was rejected by the Ukrainian side without explanation.

▫️At the same time, the Russian Federation prepared 251 Ukrainian POWs in full, including transporting them to the source area for the exchange.

▫️During April 6 and 7, 2022, the Russian side declared an exchange format of 251 people for 251, while the Ukrainian side kept reducing the lists and eventually rejected the exchange.

▫️The prisoner-of-war exchange planned for April 8, 2022, due to the fault of the Ukrainian side, once again failed to take place. The Ukrainian authorities overnight repeatedly changed the format of the exchange and reduced the number of prisoners of war declared for exchange, planned exchange was subsequently rejected by the Ukrainian side also without explanation.





__





Statement of the Joint Coordination Headquarters for Humanitarian Response in Ukraine (April 8, 2022)


The Russian Federation, guided exclusively by the principles of international humanitarian law, is continuing its large-scale measures to provide comprehensive assistance to the population in the Donetsk and Lugansk people's republics, as well as in the controlled areas of Ukraine. The Russian...




telegra.ph







Hassan Al-Somal said:


> 🇷🇺🇺🇦Statement of the Joint Coordination Headquarters for Humanitarian Response in Ukraine (April 8, 2022)
> 
> ▫️The Russian Federation takes a daily initiative to the Ukrainian side to exchange prisoners.
> 
> ▫️On April 5, 2022, an agreement was reached with the Ukrainian side to exchange 251 servicemen. Within 24 hours, the number of prisoners of war was steadily declining. As a result, the list agreed at the last stage included only 38 servicemen, which was rejected by the Ukrainian side without explanation.
> 
> ▫️At the same time, the Russian Federation prepared 251 Ukrainian POWs in full, including transporting them to the source area for the exchange.
> 
> ▫️During April 6 and 7, 2022, the Russian side declared an exchange format of 251 people for 251, while the Ukrainian side kept reducing the lists and eventually rejected the exchange.
> 
> ▫️The prisoner-of-war exchange planned for April 8, 2022, due to the fault of the Ukrainian side, once again failed to take place. The Ukrainian authorities overnight repeatedly changed the format of the exchange and reduced the number of prisoners of war declared for exchange, planned exchange was subsequently rejected by the Ukrainian side also without explanation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statement of the Joint Coordination Headquarters for Humanitarian Response in Ukraine (April 8, 2022)
> 
> 
> The Russian Federation, guided exclusively by the principles of international humanitarian law, is continuing its large-scale measures to provide comprehensive assistance to the population in the Donetsk and Lugansk people's republics, as well as in the controlled areas of Ukraine. The Russian...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> telegra.ph



If that report is true, it looks like the Ukrainians are killing the prisoners of war (pows) they hold. That is indeed shameful. The Russians are ready to release the pows that they're holding but want to exchange them for their missing servicemen and women. The Ukrainians are so desperate that they are not respecting the rights of the pows. Shameful.


----------



## lightning F57

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Check your facts, you supporter of the mass-murdering and apartheid entity of IsraHell.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512122242683260930
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512122242683260930


i find it interesting majority of the Muslim countries abstained. I don't think its out of love for Russia, I think its probably down to the perceived double standards of the western nations leading all the sanctions and other embargoes' against Russia.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512496104654393344


This invasion has little to do with NATO and more to do with bringing back the Soviet Union 



Viet said:


> Oh that’s quick.
> EU chief von der Leyen says Ukraine can get the Ok from the commission to join the EU within weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Von der Leyen in Kiew: "Ukraine gehört zur europäischen Familie"
> 
> 
> EU-Kommissionschefin von der Leyen hat der Ukraine Hoffnung auf einen schnellen Beitritt in die Europäische Union gemacht. Zuvor hatte sie sich ein Bild vom zerstörten Ort Butscha gemacht.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tagesschau.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 832047


That sounds too soon to be true?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## nang2

Wood said:


> This invasion has little to do with NATO and more to do with bringing back the Soviet Union


Gee, you still believe that?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512282582121078786

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512284153143779328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512284161868021761


----------



## Wood

nang2 said:


> Gee, you still believe that?


More so with each passing day. I only watch what is said in Russian TV and said by Russians online (and on street interviews) to reinforce my opinion 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512477260141535233


----------



## nang2

Wood said:


> More so with each passing day. I only watch what is said in Russian TV and said by Russians online (and on street interviews) to reinforce my opinion
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512477260141535233


Or you mean Ukrainian TV since you just quoted me a Ukrainian media source.


----------



## Wood

nang2 said:


> Or you mean Ukrainian TV since you just quoted me a Ukrainian media source.


The tweet had nothing to do with what I said. It was unrelated information 

The forum simply merges post in quick succession


----------



## The SC

lightning F57 said:


> i find it interesting majority of the Muslim countries abstained. I don't think its out of love for Russia, I think its probably down to the perceived double standards of the western nations leading all the sanctions and other embargoes' against Russia.


The majority of Muslim countries have good relations with both Russia and Ukraine..

Reactions: Like Like:
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## sur

Scott Ritter :


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512220052623396867

Part-2

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512220433881440262


Part-3

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512220785007550467

Part-4

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512221211916386304












__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512570346813239298

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512526197430882305


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512504371711512577

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512183456414920705

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512227213244084250


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512535210709106691


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512544464325259267


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

https://twitter.com/Levi_godman


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512365048018132997

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512368381571354624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512370951933026308

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512488613820649473

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512481425940955142

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512467606493671432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512452710955687945


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511977569691717632


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512544311149309958
Hope he does not walk to the front line like the rest of 'em generals


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512509131432894466


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512544311149309958
> Hope he does not walk to the front line like the rest of 'em generals



This guy is badass and has a lot of urban warfare experience from Syria.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512449288776949767


----------



## jamal18

Tai Hai Chen said:


> This guy is badass and has a lot of urban warfare experience from Syria.


If this is actually true, it means that the Russian operation isn't going well.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512508389821235202


jamal18 said:


> If this is actually true, it means that the Russian operation isn't going well.



Not really. This war likely lasts years if not decades. The war only ends when Ukraine cedes eastern Ukraine to Russia as a condition for peace treaty.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512494841699225602


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russia backed rebels using NLAW, possibly reverse engineered and mass produced in Russia


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512470363707424777
@Vergennes @gambit @White and Green with M/S @jamal18 @F-22Raptor @Ich @sammuel @bobo6661


----------



## LeGenD

The SC said:


> The majority of Muslim countries have good relations with both Russia and Ukraine..


Turkey is the only Islamic country to help Ukraine in a meaningful way. Others are doing nothing.

Ukraine will survive, remember, and shift to EU. There will be additional far-reaching effects.

Turkey have read the situation better and will be in good books of Europe. UK is warming up to Turkey already.









UK lifts defense export ban on Turkey, Canada may be next: Çavuşoğlu


Amid war in Ukraine, the United Kingdom has lifted the defense industry export ban imposed on Turkey, Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu said Thursday....




www.dailysabah.com













Turkish, British, Italian defense ministers meet in Istanbul - Türkiye News


The defense ministers of Turkey, Italy, and the U.K. are scheduled for a tripartite meeting in Istanbul late on April 8 for discussing bilateral and regional security and defense cooperation, along with the issue of Ukraine.



www.hurriyetdailynews.com

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512493319833726976


----------



## Primus

LeGenD said:


> Turkey is the only Islamic country to help Ukraine in a meaningful way. Others are doing nothing.
> 
> Ukraine will survive, remember, and shift to EU. There will be additional far-reaching effects.
> 
> Turkey have read the situation better and will be in good books of Europe. UK is warming up to Turkey already.


I thought Turkey is secular?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512495956620726282


----------



## jamal18

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512508389821235202
> 
> 
> Not really. This war likely lasts years if not decades. The war only ends when Ukraine cedes eastern Ukraine to Russia as a condition for peace treaty.


The US wants to prolong the war. The US will use the Ukraine as a battering ram against Russia.

The UK has actually asked Ukraine to go back on earlier concessions that they made. The West will engineer the cynical destruction of the Ukraine to play their geopolitical aims against Russia.

Fight to the last Ukrainian.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512486398355333123


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jamal18 said:


> The US wants to prolong the war. The US will use the Ukraine as a battering ram against Russia.
> 
> The UK has actually asked Ukraine to go back on earlier concessions that they made. The West will engineer the cynical destruction of the Ukraine to play their geopolitical aims against Russia.
> 
> Fight to the last Ukrainian.



War is good for Russia as long as Russian soil is not attacked. Ukrainians are cowards and they don't dare to attack Russian soil because they know the consequence. War is good real world combat training for Russian military.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512476235280097286


----------



## That Guy

sur said:


> Get a grip:
> 
> View attachment 832070
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 832073
> 
> 
> View attachment 832075
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 832076


Lmao, that's hilarious.



Huffal said:


> Z is used as a means to identify friendly units in battle.
> 
> Its similar to the coalition ^ on their vehicles which could be seen during the GW and Iraq War (see below)
> 
> View attachment 832064
> 
> 
> I have seen LOTS of people (including me) use this same marking in social media, games etc etc. I dont see people calling a bad thing or a cult symbol.


Maybe nor in your circles, but in the wider social media sphere, it's basically seen as a pro-Putin pro-war cult. The fact that Russia has been pushing the Z symbolism doesn't help.


----------



## jamal18

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512486398355333123


There were meant to be about three 'pockets' of resistance left in Mariupol. I guess there are two now. The real centre is the steel mill.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> War is good for Russia as long as Russian soil is not attacked. Ukrainians are cowards and they don't dare to attack Russian soil because they know the consequence. War is good real world combat training for Russian military.


Have to disagree. Any protracted war is expensive, and creates an air of uncertainty that is bad for business.

Exception is the Western Military-industrial complex.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512506863098683407


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512489626367557633


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512565013034283018

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## thetutle

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> April 7 (Reuters) - Russia's central bank said on Thursday that due to a "significant change in market conditions" it would buy gold from commercial banks at a negotiated price from April 8.
> 
> On March 25, the bank had said it would buy gold at a fixed price of 5,000 roubles a gram until June 30. read more
> 
> Since that announcement, the rouble has strengthened sharply against the dollar. Five thousand roubles was worth around $52 on March 25 and around $63 on Thursday.
> 
> Gold prices on the international market have remained stable at around $60 a gram, or $1,900 an ounce.
> 
> Russia is one of the world's biggest gold producers, but the country's refiners were barred from selling bullion into the London market, the world's largest, after the Kremlin sent troops into Ukraine in February.
> 
> ($1 = 78.6830 roubles)


Wow, thats awesome. In other words, Russian central bank has just decided to confiscate gold from commercial banks. 

lol now imagine if you are a Chinese investor in Russian banks. there goes your gold to the Russian central bank at massively discounted price. 

Why doesn't russia try buying gold from china or anyone else? It cant, because the true value of the Ruble will be revealed.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512532911391756291


----------



## thetutle

mmr said:


> You are wasting your time argument with a moron.
> 
> I suggest talk to average Russian international students who live in Australia and you will know the reality.
> 
> They have extreme capital controls so much so international students from Russia having hard time to bring Tution and living expenses. And in black market Russian parents buying dollar in way higher rate. Parents are forced to buy from black market to send money to these students.


Yeah exactly, 

I still dont know how they send the money to their kids. I talked to one the other day and he gave me some bogus story how his tuition will be paid for by a friend in America but did not explain how what friend will be paid by his parents. 

And if you are in russia, where do you buy dollars? In some dark alley?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512506863098683407


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jamal18 said:


> Have to disagree. Any protracted war is expensive, and creates an air of uncertainty that is bad for business.
> 
> Exception is the Western Military-industrial complex.



US fought in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan for decades. War is normal. Every day since dawn of humanity there is war.


----------



## thetutle

Analysis: Russia's rouble rebound not quite what it seems


Six weeks after Russia sent troops into Ukraine, the rouble has staged an apparently extraordinary recovery, but all is not what it seems and the exchange rate used in everyday transactions is sometimes very different to the official one.




www.reuters.com







> At the same time, demand for FX was artificially suppressed. Russia banned cash purchases of dollars and euros, introduced a 12% commission on buying foreign currency online, and set the maximum amount that an individual could withdraw from their bank account at $10,000 until Sept. 9.



So before this new rule the commission for buying foreign currencies was 30%. wow, so you go to change your ruble for USD and a third of your money is gone. 

And now Russia is relaxing this a bit, you "only" have to pay 12% commission every time you change money. 

And the most you can take from from your own money is $10,000 USD. Lucky for everyone is the average Russian can only dream of having anywhere close to $10,000 USD in their bank.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512489626367557633



I see the EO has thermal and laser designator. But how can you tell it is Orlan-30 and not Orlan-10?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512545589203902464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512528696569044993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512528547675471872


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512547295702577152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512551491734687749


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512508624601460739

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512471163640983556

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512561705674588171


----------



## The SC

It seems that Turkey has supplied the Ukrainian army with a small Mini Bayraktar
Field reconnaissance assets are a necessity for any force, including ambush and special units


----------



## K_Bin_W

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512508624601460739
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512471163640983556


They are Muslims, are they Russians?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512416389616734208
They thought when they sanctioned Russia, only Russians would be hurt, but as we can all see, it has backfired on the Western (Freemasonry) countries.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
3


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

K_Bin_W said:


> They are Muslims, are they Russians?



Russian by citizenship.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512564947401977857


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512416389616734208
> They thought when they sanctioned Russia, only Russians would be hurt, but as we can all see, it has backfired on the Western (Freemasonry) countries.



Whatever Britain lost, China supplies.


----------



## Paul2

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512489626367557633



Dat's L3-Harris WesCam camera ball module!

NATO optronics end up on Russian mil hardware

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512541734202490888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512532522210631680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512566406050631684


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512320051575205888


----------



## The SC

The Russians after entering the port of Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512442873106604032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512474692317286404


----------



## thetutle

Tai Hai Chen said:


> US fought in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan for decades. War is normal. Every day since dawn of humanity there is war.


It can be done if you are a rich country. 

Lets see how it works out for russia.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512546252378062850

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## Paul2

We have an indian trollfarm working here:


----------



## The SC

They were eliminated by DPR..







Kharkov. Foreign equipment found by Russian Spetsnaz units operating in the area..























__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512536658951884802


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512564947401977857


Surprised to see that Sweden is also considering NATO


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512515845787770880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512513665404047365

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512556494457389057

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512535131378094085


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Even countries in South America are paying the price for the unjustified Western sanctions against Russia. Luckily, for Peru, Bolivia will cover half of its fertilizer needs.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512592168879280132
"*Peruvian campesino unions are taking strike action across the country over the rising costs of fuel and fertilizer.* *Peru imports almost all its fertilizer from Russia which is now sanctioned by the US and the EU. *

During the first quarter of this year, Peru imported 18,000 tonnes of urea. During the same period in 2021, the country imported 190,000 tonnes. The massive shortfall has caused prices to skyrocket.

Bolivia’s state-owned urea and ammonia fertilizer plant is in the town of Bulo Bulo, Trópico of Cochabamba. It was opened by the government of Evo Morales, but was then closed along with most state industries following the US-backed coup in November 2019. It was re-opened in September 2021 by Luis Arce’s government."


----------



## Type59

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512565013034283018



I thought you were a military man? When it comes to infantry you prefer people from a background of hardship. But seeing that you think calling up reserves is a bad idea, then I should not be surprised by your statements.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

Mariupol battles:


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> Mariupol battles:




Man, they're still using old bazookas. What happened to the Kornet anti-tank missiles that Russia sells to the rest of the world? They should've equipped their reserves, who are sent to the front line in South and Eastern Ukraine, with those weapons.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512013939189628928


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Man, they're still using old bazookas. What happened to the Kornet anti-tank missiles that Russia sells to the rest of the world? They should've equipped their reserves, who are sent to the front line in South and Eastern Ukraine, with those weapons.


Maybe the Bazooka is more efficient in Urban combat as it is now.. They are not facing tanks in Mariupol..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512605248040353801

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## F-22Raptor

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512320051575205888



The Ukrainians are now soup Nazis.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512606563244167179

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512298301797842945


----------



## ahtan_china




----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512571394416119813

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512572683803840517


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Man, they're still using old bazookas. What happened to the Kornet anti-tank missiles that Russia sells to the rest of the world? They should've equipped their reserves, who are sent to the front line in South and Eastern Ukraine, with those weapons.



RPG-7V2 is not too shabby. Range 300+ meters with telescopic sight. Can shoot lots of different rounds such as anti personnel, thermobaric, anti tank.



https://roe.ru/eng/catalog/land-forces/strelkovoe-oruzhie/grenade-launchers/rpg-7v2/


----------



## The SC

Poland signed an agreement to purchase 250 Abrams SEPv3 tanks from the USA on April 5, including 26 M88A2 HERCULES maintenance vehicles and 17 M1074 JOINT ASSAULT BRIDGE, as well as a training package, logistics and ammunition.






“The order is approximately $4.75 billion net worth. As part of the contract, we also purchased ammunition in large quantities, which significantly strengthens our armed forces. This is a very important strengthening of the Polish armed forces,” said Polish Defense Minister Mariusz Blasak.

https://www.govconwire.com/2022/04/poland-to-buy-abrams-tanks-under-4-7b-deal-with-us/




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512406049776705536


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> It can be done if you are a rich country.
> 
> Lets see how it works out for russia.



Russia has gold. Russia is rich. Only gold. Only gold. Only gold is real money.









List of countries by gold production - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512486996710936577

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## Wood

Ukranians are using hacked telephone database to contact Russian soldiers at the staging area for deployment. Pretty cool psy-ops 🤯


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512567528622637061


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

BTR-82A amphibious light tank blasting 30 mm autocannon at bad people in Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512585306351964162


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## F-22Raptor

Wood said:


> Ukranians are using hacked telephone database to contact Russian soldiers at the staging area for deployment. Pretty cool psy-ops 🤯
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512567528622637061




Their not lying. I've seen stray dogs eating Russian corpses.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512164631749578771
Interesting information. I've wondered about this myself

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## mmr

thetutle said:


> Yeah exactly,
> 
> I still dont know how they send the money to their kids. I talked to one the other day and he gave me some bogus story how his tuition will be paid for by a friend in America but did not explain how what friend will be paid by his parents.
> 
> And if you are in russia, where do you buy dollars? In some dark alley?


Its pretty hard for them to manage. You can buy from black market but they pay lot more then the official rate.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512623362744504325
That guy and the Russian morons who dug trenches at Chernobyl will have agonizing deaths.

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Man, they're still using old bazookas. What happened to the Kornet anti-tank missiles that Russia sells to the rest of the world? They should've equipped their reserves, who are sent to the front line in South and Eastern Ukraine, with those weapons.


Welcome to reality on the ground. I believe for many on here the reality is about to start soon.


----------



## The SC

CNN global affairs analyst Kimberly Dozier explains the devastating effects of Russian POM-3 anti-personnel mines, which are an "advanced" version of landmines used in World War II and the Vietnam War. #CNN #News


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

thetutle said:


> Wow, thats awesome. In other words, Russian central bank has just decided to confiscate gold from commercial banks.
> 
> lol now imagine if you are a Chinese investor in Russian banks. there goes your gold to the Russian central bank at massively discounted price.
> 
> Why doesn't russia try buying gold from china or anyone else? It cant, because the true value of the Ruble will be revealed.


  
I am indeed surprise you talking like an ignorant child. I bet you failed in English comprehension as well.

For instance: Where did I said Russia is consfiscating gold or assets from foreign banks or do they ever keep their gold in Russian banks?

The US and some EU nations thought that what they did will cause an implosion inside the Russian banking system. Not only it did not happened but the attrition is now affecting most EU banks.

Switzerland has withdrawn its sanction on Russia after only 2 days. It has received countless threats of withdrawal to the tune of trillions from unknown rich individuals including KSA, UAE, etc
That is how serious the consequences are if one is so stupid. Switzerland will be ruined by the actions of silly politicians. Ukraine is NOT the problems of ordinary in the street in EU.

EU nations will face a bleak winter ahead but Russia being self sufficient in energy and food is NOT bothered.

Nationalising Gasprom Germania is an act by only despotic regimes as described by the US and is now happening in Germany.
What is your defense?

Russia external debt to GDP is manageable and IMO she will survived.

It is NOT collapsing and so you must be disappointed.

But one question: What has all these got to so with you?

Ukraine war can only be settled thru diplomacy and sincerity.

IMO Zalensky is just a puppet of the US and her allies and can't make any decision by himself or his team and so peace is a distance away.

Alternative is in the aftermath, there is not much left for Ukraine which will be turned back 30~40 year and in distruction.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512618176630116356


----------



## thetutle

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> I am indeed surprise you talking like an ignorant child. I bet you failed in English comprehension as well.
> 
> The US and some EU nations thought that what they did will cause an implosion in Russian banking system. Not only it did not happened but the attrition is now affecting EU banks.
> 
> Switzerland has withdrawn its sanction on Russia after only 2 days. It has received threats to withdrawn to the tune of trillions from unknown rich individuals.
> That is how serious the consequences are.
> 
> EU nations face a bleak winter ahead but Russia being self sufficient in energy and food is NOT bothered.
> 
> Its external debt to GDP is manageable.


I'm just pointing out that Russia is confiscating gold from its own commercial banks. Good luck to anyone that has invested in a Russian bank. Your money is now gone.

Mind you, it russia which is stealing from its own banks. Western banks on the other hand are doing just fine.

Why down you go take all your money and put it in a Russian bank. Please do this.

I am glad russia is doing good and is not bothered by the sanctions. It will hopefully now stop threatening countries that imposed sanctions. Because its no big deal right?

I am also glad Russia is paying its debts back. Why down you go and buy some Russian bonds and see how much russia pays you back. Please go and buy Russian bonds. I beg you.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512618176630116356


Yeah looks like EU is a terrible place, all the immigrants that are losing their lives trying to come to Europe should just turn around and go home. Especially Somalians. Europe has failed.

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## nufix

thetutle said:


> Yeah looks like EU is a terrible place, all the immigrants that are losing their lives trying to come to Europe should just turn around and go home. Especially Somalians. Europe has failed.



EU is a relatively terrible place only for people who work tho, because they are punished for every cent that they get largely to prop up social benefit for pensioners and long time unemployed. That’s the whole reason why African, middle eastern, and central asians migrants are risking their lives to come to EU.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

thetutle said:


> I'm just pointing out that Russia is confiscating gold from its own commercial banks. Good luck to anyone that has invested in a Russian bank. Your money is now gone.
> 
> Mind you, it russia which is stealing from its own banks. Western banks on the other hand are doing just fine.
> 
> Why down you go take all your money and put it in a Russian bank. Please do this.
> 
> I am glad russia is doing good and is not bothered by the sanctions. It will hopefully now stop threatening countries that imposed sanctions. Because its no big deal right?
> 
> I am also glad Russia is paying its debts back. Why down you go and buy some Russian bonds and see how much russia pays you back. Please go and buy Russian bonds. I beg you.
> 
> 
> Yeah looks like EU is a terrible place, all the immigrants that are losing their lives trying to come to Europe should just turn around and go home. Especially Somalians. Europe has failed.


Which is also misinformation, lack of comprehension and understanding of banking system?


----------



## thetutle

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Which is also misinformation, lack of comprehension and understanding of banking system?


This is why I encourage you to buy Russian bonds, and any left over money put in a russian bank. what's the worst that could happen? Russia is doing great economically.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512632236406939653


----------



## The SC



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## The SC

The Donbass battle is approaching: according to Pentagon estimates, more than 40 tactical groups of Russian battalions are located in the Donbass or near the Donbass region


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512579073767317515


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512501808916275202


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## CAPRICORN-88

thetutle said:


> This is why I encourage you to buy Russian bonds, and any left over money put in a russian bank. what's the worst that could happen? Russia is doing great economically.


That is the most stupid reply I ever received. To invest in a foreign bond to prove My point.
How about you joining the foreign mercenaries in Ukraine to fight the Russians to prove your point?

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## Trango Towers

The SC said:


> View attachment 832174


Blue is agreed Russian withdrawal after talks in Turkey. The west is amazing liar as well as the Russians. 
Oh well let them get on with it. Muslims should stay out of the western crap

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512496471106637831

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512496477855272964


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512494903787405316

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512494911303651329


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512488681692884996


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512644392041041921


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512380633384955908

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512380641958055936

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512376872096743429

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512376873757679619


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Taking Kiev can be done by moving up the Dnipr river on the east side. It is difficult for Ukrainians to go to the east side of the Dnipr river because bridges were blown up and the river is wide and fast.

@F-22Raptor @gambit @White and Green with M/S @bobo6661 @Ich @sammuel @Vergennes @jamal18 @jamahir


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## sur




----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512553123059011584
The plan _  _

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512198498925563904

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512198506064367618


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## CAPRICORN-88

It seems Russian and Chechen troops are now preparing to storm Azovstal Steelworks where more than 3000 KRU and AZOV neo-nazi fighters were making their last standoff.


----------



## sur

Glimpses of what Ukrainians have been doing to Donbass people for past many years:



Spoiler: Graphic WARNING

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## PakAlp

The SC said:


> View attachment 832174



Not sure why Russia with a superior airforce, helicopters, drones, artillery just cannot give a significant setback to Ukraine. The fighting spirit of Ukraine is applausable. Look at the area where Ukrainian counter attack is, they are taking the war to the Russians.

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## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> It seems Russian and Chechen troops are now preparing to storm Azovstal Steelworks where more than 3000 KRU and AZOV neo-nazi fighters were making their last standoff.


The Asov will not surrender.



PakAlp said:


> Not sure why Russia with a superior airforce, helicopters, drones, artillery just cannot give a significant setback to Ukraine. The fighting spirit of Ukraine is applausable. Look at the area where Ukrainian counter attack is, they are taking the war to the Russians.


Russia invasion army has a psychological problem. They see Ukrainians as same people. They speak the same language they share the same culture they are family interconnected. Ukraine official language is Russian language. Hard for them to do something unthinkable killing their brothers, raping their sisters.


----------



## bobo6661

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia has gold. Russia is rich. Only gold. Only gold. Only gold is real money.


Looks at spanish let them dig more 



Wood said:


> The plan __


no no no diversion

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## sur

Ukrainians:
In [2015] fired Tochka at Donbass = 9M79-1 # *91566**
On [2022-03-18] shot down by Rus = 9M79-1 # *915518*
On [2022-04-08] Fired at their own train station = 9M79-1 # *91570** (Last digit could be 8 or 9 instead of 0 ? ) While hysteria-struck propagandists & blind followers alleging Rus.































So now we know . . .

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## CAPRICORN-88

Viet said:


> The Asov will not surrender.
> 
> 
> Russia invasion army has a psychological problem. They see Ukrainians as same people. They speak the same language they share the same culture they are family interconnected. Ukraine official language is Russian language. Hard for them to do something unthinkable killing their brothers, raping their sisters.


I don't know about that as dead men can't surrender. 

But you sure sound as though you are either a *spokesman for AZOV* or a *nazi* yourself.

Or perhaps and more likely - just a dumb low IQ Khmer Krom.

So the Ukrainian and Russian language is the same and that is according to you.

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## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> I don't know.
> 
> But you sure sound as though you are either a *spokesman for AZOV* or a *nazi* yourself.
> 
> Or perhaps and more likely - just a dumb low IQ Khmer Krom.
> 
> So the Ukrainian language is same Russian and that is according to you.


You have low intellect. Russia/Ukraine languages are like Spanish/Portuguese. The languages share the same root. There are differences, yes, however they understand mutually. If you speak Spanish you will understand people who speak Portuguese.

Azoz will make the last stand.

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## Trango Towers

PakAlp said:


> Not sure why Russia with a superior airforce, helicopters, drones, artillery just cannot give a significant setback to Ukraine. The fighting spirit of Ukraine is applausable. Look at the area where Ukrainian counter attack is, they are taking the war to the Russians.


Russia agreed to withdraw. Looooool you just watch fox news don't you

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## kingQamaR

PakAlp said:


> Not sure why Russia with a superior airforce, helicopters, drones, artillery just cannot give a significant setback to Ukraine. The fighting spirit of Ukraine is applausable. Look at the area where Ukrainian counter attack is, they are taking the war to the Russians.



Ukrainians have truck loads of stingers and Javelins. Train the reservists and willing civilians how to use them. They don't need to all be expert operators just Point - lockon - shoot - pick the next one off the truck and repeat. Ruskie armour is no match for western weapons and they know this these weapons were designed for the express purpose of destroying Hinds, sukhou and Migs and T72's and BTR's.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Viet said:


> You have low intellect. Russia/Ukraine languages are like Spanish/Portuguese. The languages share the same root. There are differences, yes, however they understand mutually. If you speak Spanish you will understand people who speak Portuguese.
> 
> Azoz will make the last stand.


So Russian and Ukrainian language is the same and that is according to you.


----------



## Viet

sur said:


> My guess is that they are saving a good chunk of their better arsenal & men for any possible escalation with NATO (?)
> Because NATO is keeping a keen eye, and if they felt that Rus has been weakened enough, they won't spare a chance to open other fronts. (?)


Russia land army has no chance against modern Nato military that is armed to the teeth. That’s the reason why Putin has changed no first use nuclear policy.


----------



## bobo6661

sur said:


> Ukrainians:
> In [2015] fired Tochka at Donbass = *9M79-1* # 91566*
> On [2022-03-18] shot down by Rus = *9M79-1* # 915518
> On [2022-04-08] Fired at their own train station = *9M79-1* # 91570* (or 91578* ? ) While hysteria-struck propagandists & blind followers alleging Rus.
> 
> 
> View attachment 832188
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 832189
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 832190
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now we know . . .
> 
> View attachment 832191


If its was realy ukrainian one doubt they would leave a serial number for all to see


----------



## kingQamaR

sur said:


> My guess is that they are saving a good chunk of their better arsenal & men for any possible escalation with NATO (?)
> Because NATO is keeping a keen eye, and if they felt that Rus has been weakened enough, they won't spare a chance to open other fronts. (?)



Russias Vietnam?


----------



## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> So Russian and Ukrainian language is the same and that is according to you.


”During the recent Direct Line, when I was asked about Russian-Ukrainian relations, I said that Russians and Ukrainians were one people – a single whole.
These words were not driven by some short-term considerations or prompted by the current political context. It is what I have said on numerous occasions and what I firmly believe.”


Vladimir Putin


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Viet said:


> ”During the recent Direct Line, when I was asked about Russian-Ukrainian relations, I said that Russians and Ukrainians were one people – a single whole.
> These words were not driven by some short-term considerations or prompted by the current political context. It is what I have said on numerous occasions and what I firmly believe.”
> 
> 
> Vladimir Putin


So Ukrainian and Russian is the same language and that is according to you? 

  

So shall I exemplified using the languages of Vietnamese, Khmer Krom and Khmer Rouge. 
No wonder you are a diehard supporter of Pol Pot.


----------



## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> So Ukrainian and Russian is the same language and that is according to you?
> 
> 
> 
> So shall I exemplified using the languages of Vietnamese, Khmer Krom and Khmer Rouge.
> No wonder you are a diehard supporter of Pol Pot.


You don’t read? That’s the words of Putin.
The languages are krylish.
Russ Kiev is the root of Russia and Ukraine civilization. Putin even says both share the same spiritual space.
Yes even though he sends his army to kill and rape his family members.


----------



## bobo6661

sur said:


> NATO countries have much more to lose than Rus.


They have the same to lose their lives ...


----------



## Viet

sur said:


> Yes and Rusi FM etc. has said that themselves. So no surprise there.
> But due to deterrence NATO would be very scared.
> NATO countries have much more to lose than Rus.
> If war ever escalated to *non-conventional*, that *will be more net loss for NATO than for Rus*, despite having better fire power.
> 
> Many will be made extinct non-livable, but Rus has MUCH more land mass and less to lose.
> US & NATO population is much more concentrated.


Russia can’t win against 30 Nato States in conventional war. That’s hopeless. Even Germany alone can outspend Russia.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

kingQamaR said:


> Ukrainians have truck loads of stingers and Javelins. Train the reservists and willing civilians how to use them. They don't need to all be expert operators just Point - lockon - shoot - pick the next one off the truck and repeat. Ruskie armour is no match for western weapons and they know this these weapons were designed for the express purpose of destroying Hinds, sukhou and Migs and T72's and BTR's.


Then let hope it works as effectively as you said because since their delivery Russian special forces have either destroyed or capture a huge cache of them. 

Russia said they will be distributed to the militias fighting the UKR and AZV neo-nazi fighters in the East breakaway Republics. 

The militias are waiting for NATO weapon if they are made available to them. 

Is it good news or bad news?


----------



## Viet

sur said:


> Yes and Rusi FM etc. have said that themselves. So no surprise there.
> But due to N-deterrence NATO would be very scared.
> *NATO countries have much more to lose than Rus*.
> If war ever escalated to *non-conventional*, that *will be more net loss for NATO than for Rus*, despite having better fire power.
> 
> Many will be made extinct non-livable, but Rus has MUCH more land mass and less to lose.
> US & NATO population is much more concentrated. And in a non-conventional escalation more concentrated the cities, more they will lose.


Russia will escalate any war with the NATO to nuclear. That’s Russia military doctrine. The fallout will finish the planet there is no place to hide for humans, ok maybe Russia siberia is safe.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Viet said:


> You don’t read? That’s the words of Putin.
> The languages are krylish.
> Russ Kiev is the root of Russia and Ukraine civilization. Putin even says both share the same spiritual space.
> Yes even though he sends his army to kill and rape his family members.


Stop trolling and go home.

You don't even know what you are writing.

Don't waste our time with your biased opinion.

Whether Russia or Ukraine is winning NONE of our concern.

But propaganda are NOT facts. There are no escape route available for the trapped UKR and AZOV neo-nazi battalion in Azovstal Steelwork. 
So all these talk of victory or bravery by strangely a khmer Krom fanboy won't change the outcome of this final battle.

Especially those created from the wild imagination of your Khmer Krom mind.

NAM is over long ago and it is time for you to let go and rest.

Hopefully in peace.

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## CAPRICORN-88

bobo6661 said:


> If its was realy ukrainian one doubt they would leave a serial number for all to see


I agree with you but the reality is soldiers are not politicians and they don't think.

They are trained to kill.

So they will fired anything at the disposal to achieve their objectives.

Now the order is to destroy an important target.

They need not to know whether the targets are military or civilians.

So I am not surprised at all.


----------



## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Stop trolling and go home.
> 
> You don't even know what you are writing.
> 
> Don't waste our time with your biased opinion.
> 
> Whether Russia or Ukraine is winning NONE of our concern.
> 
> But propaganda are NOT facts. There are no escape route available for the trapped UKR and AZOV neo-nazi battalion in Azovstal Steelwork.
> So all these talk of victory or bravery by strangely a khmer Krom fanboy won't change the outcome of this final battle.
> 
> Especially those created from the wild imagination of your Khmer Krom mind.
> 
> NAM is over long ago and it is time for you to let go and rest.
> 
> Hopefully in peace.


So if not concerning me why concerning you? Why you post here? Why you cheer looters and rapists?
Every country has extremists. You want to kill them all?


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## CAPRICORN-88



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## CAPRICORN-88

Viet said:


> So if not concerning me why concerning you? Why you post here? Why you cheer looters and rapists?
> Every country has extremists. You want to kill them all?


Are you that sick?

So you are now accusing us of cheering rapists and looters like what Khmer Krom did during NAM?

Go home and stop trolling.



There is nothing glorifying in any war only suffering, misinformation and propaganda.

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## kingQamaR

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Then let hope it works as effectively as you said because since their delivery Russian special forces have either destroyed or capture a huge cache of them.
> 
> Russia said they will be distributed to the militias fighting the UKR and AZV neo-nazi fighters in the East breakaway Republics.
> 
> The militias are waiting for NATO weapon if they are made available to them.
> 
> Is it good news or bad news?



No doubt a bit of exaggerations by Ukraine to boost the morale of their forces, but whichever way you look at it, this is not going well for Russia. They can no long pretend to be any sort of match for NATO, when one month in, all that have managed to take in Ukraine is one city, and in the process have lost 4 generals, 10,000 plus soldiers and a large chunk of their equipment. Russia is a country with a large army, but is certainly not a super power. Once it finally accepts this it might start behaving like a civilized country, rather than destroying itself by trying to empire build


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512715430028320768

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## mmr

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512715430028320768


Good. It will default soon. This war just started. They will default on dollar bonds as well in coming months.


----------



## Messerschmitt

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512416389616734208
> They thought when they sanctioned Russia, only Russians would be hurt, but as we can all see, it has backfired on the Western (Freemasonry) countries.


It seriously backfired on the shapeshifting reptilian humanoids enslaving the human race since millennia and posing as our policians.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512486996710936577



Bed-time stories.....


----------



## mmr

kingQamaR said:


> No doubt a bit of exaggerations by Ukraine to boost the morale of their forces, but whichever way you look at it, this is not going well for Russia. They can no long pretend to be any sort of match for NATO, when one month in, all that have managed to take in Ukraine is one city, and in the process have lost 4 generals, 10,000 plus soldiers and a large chunk of their equipment. Russia is a country with a large army, but is certainly not a super power. Once it finally accepts this it might start behaving like a civilized country, rather than destroying itself by trying to empire build


Putin own spokesman said russia suffered significant loss. Russian made emotional decision. That's what Americans wanted. Nato is preparing for years of proxy war and bleed russia dry. Then nato will only focus on china.

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## bobo6661

Messerschmitt said:


> It seriously backfired on the shapeshifting reptilian humanoids enslaving the human race since millennia and posing as our policians.


in poland sunflower oil is not to common



https://latifundist.com/en/rating/top-10-proizvoditelej-rapsa-v-2019-godu




rapeseed producers


CharacteristicRapeseed production in million metric tonsCanada19.49European Union16.29China14.05India8.5

we will not run out of oil


----------



## kingQamaR

mmr said:


> Putin own spokesman said russia suffered significant loss. Russian made emotional decision. That's what Americans wanted. Nato is preparing for years of proxy war and bleed russia dry. Then nato will only focus on china.



Now that Mr. Putin's spokesreptile has admitted large losses, perhaps his trolls won't keep insisting all is going according to plan.

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## CAPRICORN-88

kingQamaR said:


> No doubt a bit of exaggerations by Ukraine to boost the morale of their forces, but whichever way you look at it, this is not going well for Russia. They can no long pretend to be any sort of match for NATO, when one month in, all that have managed to take in Ukraine is one city, and in the process have lost 4 generals, 10,000 plus soldiers and a large chunk of their equipment. Russia is a country with a large army, but is certainly not a super power. Once it finally accepts this it might start behaving like a civilized country, rather than destroying itself by trying to empire build


AFAIK none of all these glorifying stories by either sides have been corroborated and so the best for those who are watching and listening is to wait for the final outcome. The final goal. 

Expectation of the performance of these make believe invincibility of the US and NATO army may falls short of expectation unless they are engaged in one. 
They may be wiped off quickly as well. 

But apart from the opinions of hardliners e.g. NATO SG Jen Stoltenberg, Liz Truss, etc and former Soviet states no European nations seems to be enthusiastic of a war with Russia. 

But things will fizzled out soon when the status of the ongoing battles in Eastern breakaway Republics are finally known. Then everyone will have to face the reality and deal with the cost of someone else war? Life still goes on but the cold winter is approaching and new COVID variants may killed them. 

Right now, all I am reading is Ukraine desperately requesting for armour vehlcles, tanks, etc from the West. And everyone is running short. 

Didn't the tweets claimed how successful the UKR and AZOV are doing against Russian, Chechen and the militia?
Didn't they blow up almost all of Russian Armour Division?

Or are they just make believe as pointed out by independent observers and witnesses.


----------



## Viet

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512715430028320768


Russia is closer to default than ever. The bonds are in freefall while the yield exploding. Putin is the hero to Russia economy. He finished it in less than 2 months.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## CAPRICORN-88

kingQamaR said:


> Now that Mr. Putin's spokesreptile has admitted large losses, perhaps his trolls won't keep insisting all is going according to plan.


It is still far short of those published by the US and the West bases on uncorroborated sources.



Viet said:


> Russia is closer to default than ever. The bonds are in freefall.
> 
> 
> View attachment 832240


Stop trolling. You won't understand what it means.

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## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> It is still far short of those published by the US and the West bases on uncorroborated sources.
> 
> 
> Stop trolling. You won't understand what it means.


What trolling?
The markets expect Russia bankruptcy that is why Russia bonds are minus 80 percent the value.
That means the ruble will decrease minus 80 percent in value. That is the reality.

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## mmr

kingQamaR said:


> Now that Mr. Putin's spokesreptile has admitted large losses, perhaps his trolls won't keep insisting all is going according to plan.


Trolls are least to be worried about.

Bigger pic is how Americans are preparing for next show down and its ability to unite the nato...expand it beyond Europe and focus on its next target. Did u notice nato invited japan and south korean fm as well on the last summit for the first time? What does that tell you. Soon you will see Australia new Zealand get invites on nato summit. Hint its not the russian Americans are worried about. After seeing how pathetic russian army is no one cares specifically not the usa.









NATO, Asia-Pacific partners agree to bolster cooperation


Cyber defense, new technologies and countering disinformation will become focus




asia.nikkei.com

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Muhammed45

Moscow warns of ‘direct military confrontation’ with US​The Russian ambassador accused the West of inciting “further bloodshed” in Ukraine

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512726615624753153


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

mmr said:


> Trolls are least to be worried about.
> 
> Bigger pic is how Americans are preparing for next show down and its ability to unite the nato...expand it beyond Europe and focus on its next target. Did u notice nato invited japan and south korean fm as well on the last summit for the first time? What does that tell you. Soon you will see Australia new Zealand get invites on nato summit. Hint its not the russian Americans are worried about. After seeing how pathetic russian army is no one cares specifically not the usa.


The US has simply ran out of breath, idea and sanctions.

The present team in the Administration are made up of mostly incompetent and conceited individuals.

And Biden is constantly in a daze and not knowing where he is or what he is doing.

So who is running his administration?

The sanctions are simply not working today and Biden do not understand why?
It shpuld work but it didn't.

The US can't even convinced ASEAN nations to vote against Russia.

Now even US ally Singapore has abstained.

The world today is not the same as the one before 2000 where the US can snap its finger like a regular Mafia Godfather.

Even India has a change of heart.

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## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> If you talk c@ck in front of us without the understanding you are simply trolling.
> What Market???
> Khmer Krom run fish market???
> So what is the exchange of the ruble now?


You are dense. Markets means international bond markets what else?

Investors can buy Russia dollar bonds at their brokers those papers are traded in London, New York, Singapore, HK and I don’t know elsewhere.

You support the war you can buy. do it.

If the paper recovers you make 800 percent profit. Minimum.


----------



## mmr

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> The US has simply ran out of breath, idea and sanctions.
> 
> The present team in the Administration are most incompetent and conceited individuals.
> 
> And Biden is constantly in a daze and not knowing where he is or what he is doing.
> 
> So who is running his administration?
> 
> The sanctions are simply not working today and Biden do not understand why?
> It shpuld work but it didn't.
> 
> The US can't even convinced ASEAN nations to vote against Russia.
> 
> Now even US ally Singapore has abstained.
> 
> The world today is not the same as the one before 2000 where the US can snap its finger like a regular Mafia Godfather.
> 
> Even India has a change of heart.


Nato it self is a giant. You add japan Australia south korea etc that's massive military might. As time passes wont be surprised more asia pacific countries join. But we will see. Too early to tell.

Point is Americans are smart enough to bog down and bleed russia with proxy war for long time..unite nato and focus on its next target with its asia pacific partners.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Messerschmitt said:


> It seriously backfired on the shapeshifting reptilian humanoids enslaving the human race since millennia and posing as our policians.



Are you being sarcastic here?


----------



## Wood

mmr said:


> Putin own spokesman said russia suffered significant loss. Russian made emotional decision. That's what Americans wanted. Nato is preparing for years of proxy war and bleed russia dry. Then nato will only focus on china.


Russian decision to invade Ukraine was not an emotional one. It was a prepared and calculated move. It was very rational if you believe that Ukrainians are not interested to fight, Europeans will not care and Russian army is fully modernised and super strong.

Russian problem was that all of Putin's underlying assumptions behind this decision have been proven to be incorrect

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## FuturePAF

“EU membership - matter of weeks not years”
It was always about what the candidate nation can do for the EU then any arbitrary roadmap. In this case, Ukraine maybe being setup like a “West Germany” of the Russophone world, and Russia becoming the “East Germany”. Ukraine maybe given reparations from out of Russia foreign reserves to rebuild, and its even possible the EU may encourage the best and brightest of Russia’s skilled workforce to emigrate to Ukraine to speed up the rebuilding while undermining Russian economic prospects. It might take a generation at most, but this war has given Europe the chance to give Russia the Coup de grace. I’d expect another mass migration out of Russia over the next few years, similar to what happened in the 90s.


----------



## Wood

mmr said:


> Good. It will default soon. This war just started. They will default on dollar bonds as well in coming months.


.. this will happen when people don't need the rubble. But some European countries have agreed to buy Russian gas in rubble. These people may use the payments from Russia to buy gas in return?

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## mmr

Wood said:


> .. this will happen when people don't need the rubble. But some European countries have agreed to buy Russian gas in rubble. These people may use the payments from Russia to buy gas in return?


Unless Germany dont pay in rubble smaller eu countries wont make difference.

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512706698611408896

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## CAPRICORN-88

mmr said:


> Unless Germany dont pay in rubble smaller eu countries wont make difference.


If some nations in EU or the US don't accept Ruble due to their own government sanctions, it does not means the rest of world won't.

Example: You needed neon gas badly from Russia, then pay in Rubles.

The US and these Western Power is not the world.


Time to watch my favorite drama. 

All these warring talks is getting boring. 

Life goes on. Hope inflation would affects Asia. 
It has not so far except in EU and the US, where it is reported folks are now siphoning gas of the cars.

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## WotTen

FuturePAF said:


> “EU membership - matter of weeks not years”



I am sure Turkey feels like a fool fighting for Europe in this war when it has been denied EU membership for decades and will never get it anyway.


----------



## bobo6661

WotTen said:


> I am sure Turkey feels like a fool fighting for Europe in this war when it has been denied EU membership for decades and will never get it anyway.


Doubt we will take Turkey in with erdogan in power 🤷‍♂️ And guess there is Greece veto


----------



## mmr

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> If some nations in EU or the US don't accept Ruble due to their own government sanctions, it not means the rest of world won't.
> 
> Example: You needed neon gas badly from Russia, then pay in Rubles.
> 
> The US and these Western Power is not the world.


We will see. How fast europe can diversify energy sources. 

Proxy war results are slow to see. As long as you understand the bigger picture.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

mmr said:


> Nato it self is a giant. You add japan Australia south korea etc that's massive military might. As time passes wont be surprised more asia pacific countries join. But we will see. Too early to tell.
> 
> Point is Americans are smart enough to bog down and bleed russia with proxy war for long time..unite nato and focus on its next target with its asia pacific partners.



Different culture, idea and objectives and most frankly most Asian nations don't see eye to eye with the European nations.

NATO???   
They can't even recruit other Asian nations apart from India and Japan into QUAD. And have to form AUKUS based on the 5 eye Anglo-Saxon alliance nations.
And India is now playing the reluctant member.

Perhaps it is also due to imperialistic past.

Asians don't trust or need Western Power. We can settle dispute on our own.

Thaf is why Australian today is generally shun by most of us.



mmr said:


> We will see. How fast europe can diversify energy sources.
> 
> Proxy war results are slow to see. As long as you understand the bigger picture.


Then better hurry and do it fast as Russia may soon switched off the tap due to non payment.

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## FuturePAF

WotTen said:


> I am sure Turkey feels like a fool fighting for Europe in this war when it has been denied EU membership for decades and will never get it anyway.


This war has weakened Russia so much and therefore Turkey has had to pivot towards a more pro-European posture to get back into their good graces. It’s not even about EU membership for Turkey at this point, but economic stability.

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## kingQamaR

Globalisation has been the mantra for decades now. It's all very well in a world where every country behaves itself, but meanwhile in the real world it results in dependency on misbehaving countries who use the revenue to cause mischief. Globalisation actively discourages self-sufficiency, but in times of crisis you realise how important self-sufficiency is.

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## Get Ya Wig Split

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512706698611408896







Let's fcking go

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## mmr

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Different culture, idea and objectives and most frankly most Asian nations don't see eye to eye with the European nations.
> 
> NATO???
> They can't even recruit other Asian nations apart from India and Japan into QUAD. And have to form AUKUS based on the 5 eye Anglo-Saxon alliance nations.
> And India is now playing the reluctant member.
> 
> Perhaps it is also due to imperialistic past.
> 
> Asians don't trust or need Western Power. We can settle dispute on our own.
> 
> Thaf is why Australian today is generally shun by most of us.
> 
> 
> Then better hurry and do it fast as Russia may soon switched off the tap due to non payment.


is this why japan South korea working with nato...and sending there fm for the first time. Nato already know what is the next target and Americans are doing good job.

India is following wait and see approach. Thats why i said time will tell who else will join in asia pacific.

Its not about culture. Its about self interest and what you will get in return.

Since russia didnt switch gas off after there own deadlines why will any one be worried lol.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512634878331965440

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512750152821653511

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512725590608019457


----------



## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512739692583821312



Canon fodder nothing else....

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russian drone shoots at Ukrainian artillery with laser guided missile


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512724914901426179
Russian army Shturm tank destroyer in action in eastern Ukraine


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512696867171176450


----------



## thetutle

mmr said:


> Trolls are least to be worried about.
> 
> Bigger pic is how Americans are preparing for next show down and its ability to unite the nato...expand it beyond Europe and focus on its next target. Did u notice nato invited japan and south korean fm as well on the last summit for the first time? What does that tell you. Soon you will see Australia new Zealand get invites on nato summit. Hint its not the russian Americans are worried about. After seeing how pathetic russian army is no one cares specifically not the usa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO, Asia-Pacific partners agree to bolster cooperation
> 
> 
> Cyber defense, new technologies and countering disinformation will become focus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asia.nikkei.com


this is so true. Russias failure is a tragedy for the US military industrial complex. How can they ask for 500 more F35's? the taxpayers will see that F16's from the 1980's are enough. 

They will now pretend china is the huge military power to get more funding,


----------



## Foinikas

Grandma mistakes Ukrainian soldiers for Russians,comes out with a Soviet flag. The soldiers give her food,throw down the flag and trample it,trying to have her say "Slava Ykraini". The confused grandma tells them that this is the flag her parents fought for and gives them the food back.

I think @vostok can translate it completely. Maybe @Piotr if he speaks Russian or @russiarussia

@jamahir might like this

Reactions: Like Like:
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## mmr

thetutle said:


> this is so true. Russias failure is a tragedy for the US military industrial complex. How can they ask for 500 more F35's? the taxpayers will see that F16's from the 1980's are enough.
> 
> They will now pretend china is the huge military power to get more funding,


I dont think usa was ever worried about russia to begin with. You can see last few years they are more focus on indo pacific.

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## Sineva

ahtan_china said:


> View attachment 831271


So is mr Bean supposed to be nato then?


----------



## thetutle

WotTen said:


> I am sure Turkey feels like a fool fighting for Europe in this war when it has been denied EU membership for decades and will never get it anyway.


Turkey is too big for the EU, France and Germany will not let them control the EU, which is what would happen if they joined, 

Turkeys destiny is to rebuild its empire like the UK is doing.

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## jamahir

Foinikas said:


> Grandma mistakes Ukrainian soldiers for Russians,comes out with a Soviet flag. The soldiers give her food,throw down the flag and trample it,trying to have her say "Slava Ykraini". The confused grandma tells them that this is the flag her parents fought for and gives them the food back.
> 
> I think @vostok can translate it completely. Maybe @Piotr if he speaks Russian or @russiarussia
> 
> @jamahir might like this



Yes, I really like this. Thanks for posting. It was posted yesterday too on this thread and I said that the grandma and the grandpa were brave and the Ukrainian soldier was behaving like an extortion gangster because that's what his bunch is.

And I hope @vostok is okay.

@BlindEagle @mmr @Wood @F-22Raptor @Vergennes @Messerschmitt, look, these elderly people don't want to be "rescued" by the "noble" Ukrainian military.


----------



## thetutle

bobo6661 said:


> Doubt we will take Turkey in with erdogan in power 🤷‍♂️ And guess there is Greece veto



See the post above. I think Greece is one of the few that would want them in the EU. Thats the only way Greece gets Constantinople back, in some way. Freedom of movement. etc. 

UK wanted Turkey in the EU so that EU does not become federalised. Thats too late now, EU is going to be federalised and Turkey is too big, Too muslim, too Kurdish. Maybe if it was 40 million turks and only half the country. Maybe then yes, but turkey does not fit in with the EU vision. 

BTW, there is already about 5 milion turks in the EU. Thats a crazy amount when you think about it. Imagine 85 million more. 

So I dont think Erdogan is the problem.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512760553722322954^ I will obviously not post the footage...

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## ahtan_china

Sineva said:


> So is mr Bean supposed to be nato then?


YES. You are so smart👍


----------



## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512698228541587456

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> Let's fcking go


NATO is 950 million people. And they are the richest countries in the world. Russia should be worried.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512696431173271552


----------



## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512722415691870213

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> NATO is 950 million people. And they are the richest countries in the world. Russia should be worried.



NATO is not 1 country. Colloquilly, NATO means the US. No country other than the US is important in NATO because they are too small in area or too small in population or both.

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## thetutle

Foinikas said:


> Grandma mistakes Ukrainian soldiers for Russians,comes out with a Soviet flag. The soldiers give her food,throw down the flag and trample it,trying to have her say "Slava Ykraini". The confused grandma tells them that this is the flag her parents fought for and gives them the food back.
> 
> I think @vostok can translate it completely. Maybe @Piotr if he speaks Russian or @russiarussia
> 
> @jamahir might like this


Crazy old people. Where was she living for the past 30 years. She probably doest know what year it is. 

I also have relatives that think its the 1960's and sing communist songs when they get drunk. This is the level of brianwashing that comes with communism.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512691670285881346

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512682186616451074


thetutle said:


> Crazy old people. Where was she living for the past 30 years. She probably doest know what year it is.
> 
> I also have relatives that think its the 1960's and sing communist songs when they get drunk. This is the level of brianwashing that comes with communism.



@waz @The Eagle @LeGenD @WebMaster @Irfan Baloch @Foxtrot Alpha 

Denigrative comments, especially towards the elderly, should be prohibited in this thread. Please look into this behaviour. Thanks.

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## Foinikas

thetutle said:


> Crazy old people. Where was she living for the past 30 years. She probably doest know what year it is.
> 
> I also have relatives that think its the 1960's and sing communist songs when they get drunk. This is the level of brianwashing that comes with communism.


This isn't brainwashing. It's just old people. You could go to a village in remote Bosnia and find some very old man still thinking Tito is alive. You never know. You might go to an redneck town in USA and find out old people still think Bush is in power. But the grandma was right,their fathers and grandfathers fought against the Germans under the banner. Even if they hated communis,this was the country's flag and it reminds them of the war they won with so much sacrifice.


----------



## thetutle

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Denigrative comments, especially towards the elderly, should be prohibited in this thread. Please look into this behaviour. Thanks.


Degenerative behaviour of an old lady who waves a soviet flag. Soviet flag, a flag which banned islam. made atheism a state religion. demolished churches and mosques. Killed 20 million ukranians through starvation and enslaved half of europe.



Foinikas said:


> This isn't brainwashing. It's just old people. You could go to a village in remote Bosnia and find some very old man still thinking Tito is alive. You never know. You might go to an redneck town in USA and find out old people still think Bush is in power. But the grandma was right,their fathers and grandfathers fought against the Germans under the banner. Even if they hated communis,this was the country's flag and it reminds them of the war they won with so much sacrifice.


Yes of course. I have relatives like this. They are beyond help. You cant do much about them and neither can this soldier. They are on their way out anyway.


----------



## thetutle

Foinikas said:


> This isn't brainwashing. It's just old people. You could go to a village in remote Bosnia and find some very old man still thinking Tito is alive. You never know.


And it is a great deal of brainwashing. Its like a cult. I lived trough it. You know those North Koreans that cry like children when the deal leader dies. This is 100% genuine. they are so sad. They would all give their life for the leader without a moments thought. The kids too. The kids would report their own parents if they heard any anti communist sentiment in the home. its a very sick system. Been there done that.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512662654355066881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512666447759110147

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512667989518139392

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512669267870642182

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512679472775933954


----------



## bobo6661

thetutle said:


> Crazy old people. Where was she living for the past 30 years. She probably doest know what year it is.
> 
> I also have relatives that think its the 1960's and sing communist songs when they get drunk. This is the level of brianwashing that comes with communism.


Yee to some nothing go tru they live in the soviet times, got the same with my 80 year old father


----------



## F-22Raptor

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512760553722322954^ I will obviously not post the footage...




This is absolutely horrific. The proper authorities should be notified.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ahtan_china



Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## beijingwalker

Germany: Bundeswehr arms deliveries to Ukraine 'reached a limit'​Germany's defense minister says there's hardly any possibility left to supply Ukraine with weapons from the German military arsenal, and further deliveries would have to be made through the arms industry.









Germany: Bundeswehr arms deliveries to Ukraine 'reached a limit' | DW | 09.04.2022


Germany's defense minister says there's hardly any possibility left to supply Ukraine with weapons from the German military arsenal, and further deliveries would have to be made through the arms industry.




www.dw.com

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## Foinikas

thetutle said:


> And it is a great deal of brainwashing. Its like a cult. I lived trough it. You know those North Koreans that cry like children when the deal leader dies. This is 100% genuine. they are so sad. They would all give their life for the leader without a moments thought. The kids too. The kids would report their own parents if they heard any anti communist sentiment in the home. its a very sick system. Been there done that.


The system and ideology is bad,but old people like this grandma are genuinely confused because of old age,not because they are "brain-washed" like you say.


----------



## mmr

Britain to send anti-ship missiles and armoured vehicles to Ukraine


To ensure the protection of Ukrainian troops as Vladimir Putin's invasion ramps up, Britain will provide armoured vehicles which can withstand explosive devices, rockets and rifle fire.




www.dailymail.co.uk





UK is set to offer Ukraine more firepower after Salisbury arms summit with plans to provide anti-ship missiles and armoured vehicles that can withstand rockets​

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## bobo6661

F-22Raptor said:


> This is absolutely horrific. The proper authorities should be notified.


medicine for him


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512727443379048449

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512727559758307329

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512670441722327045


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

9M544 300 mm GLONASS guided artillery. Range 120+ km.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512665862150438913

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## Wood

Audio recording of conversation between Russia's marauders at work.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512755067962949633


----------



## Wood

Farmers at work


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512784369588518919

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## thetutle

Boris Johnson in Kiyev. Wow. Russia has been totally ejected from the place.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512779757196394496

Patron is a good boy

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512700856528953345


----------



## Ali_Baba

Ukraine: Johnson pledges aid to Zelensky in Kyiv meeting


The PM offers Ukraine 120 armoured vehicles during a visit No 10 calls a "show of solidarity" .



www.bbc.co.uk





Respect to Boris Johnson for flying into a warzone to meet a leader fighting against Russian Nazi's ... i wonder if the Russian's will try something now that he is in Ukraine...

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512806834381459463

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ali_Baba said:


> Ukraine: Johnson pledges aid to Zelensky in Kyiv meeting
> 
> 
> The PM offers Ukraine 120 armoured vehicles during a visit No 10 calls a "show of solidarity" .
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Respect to Boris Johnson for flying into a warzone to meet a leader fighting against Russian Nazi's ... i wonder if the Russian's will try something now that he is in Ukraine...



Britain historically fought Russia. Britain fought on Turkey's side in Crimea war.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512810966559465473


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512794643943112709

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## UKBengali

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512760553722322954^ I will obviously not post the footage...





Wow, if true then this is absolutely montrous.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512795000052060161

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## Paul2

Last starving Russian stragglers cutoff in woods near Kiyv are now surrendering.

South - same offensive preparation to enter Kherson, few move villages are retaken. Now, almost no resistance from Russian artillery. Are Russians are out of ammo for arty?

East - Russian regrouping on their side of the border

South-East - sloppy slugfest, with most Russian forces now entering exhaustion state


----------



## UKBengali

Ali_Baba said:


> Ukraine: Johnson pledges aid to Zelensky in Kyiv meeting
> 
> 
> The PM offers Ukraine 120 armoured vehicles during a visit No 10 calls a "show of solidarity" .
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Respect to Boris Johnson for flying into a warzone to meet a leader fighting against Russian Nazi's ... i wonder if the Russian's will try something now that he is in Ukraine...





I am sure that BJ already left Ukraine before the information that he met Zelensky in Kyiv was released.

It shows that the threat from the Russians is almost completely gone, although BJ did take a massive risk as if the Russians knew he was in Ukraine they may have tried to assasinate him with an airstrike.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

UKBengali said:


> I am sure that BJ already left Ukraine before the information that he met Zelensky in Kyiv was released.
> 
> It shows that the threat from the Russians is almost completely gone, although BJ did take a massive risk as if the Russians knew he was in Ukraine they may have tried to assasinate him with an airstrike.



I guess an Iskander strike from Belarus would have killed Boris Johnson but that mean war between Russia and Britain again and that be agony for civilians of both countries. Not needed.

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## UKBengali

Tai Hai Chen said:


> I guess an Iskander strike from Belarus would have killed Boris Johnson but that mean war between Russia and Britain again and that be agony for civilians of both countries. Not needed.





Not really as the Russians could have just denied they knew it was BJ, rather than another target such as a high-ranking Ukrainian official.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

UKBengali said:


> Not really as the Russians could have just denied they knew it was BJ, rather than another target such as a high-ranking Ukrainian official.



But it would still mean war between Russia and Britain. Killing the head of a state, intentionally or not, mean war. If the US kill Putin and say it is not intentional, it still mean war between the US and Russia.

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## bobo6661

The parody of this war is russia actually hurting more their own russian speaking people in ukraine 


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/SlavaUkrayini/comments/tzv4p3


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512169844334116866

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512818260374396930
Smoke from clashes today near Kherson​

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512815058686038024

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512823870012723204

I believe there’s 10,000 Starlink terminals in Ukraine.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Putin loses his NINTH colonel as tank commander​








Ukraine war: Putin loses his NINTH Russian colonel


A funeral was held for Colonel Alexander Bespalov on Friday in the closed Russian city of Ozersk, according to a local announcement, which said he was killed during 'special operation'.




www.dailymail.co.uk





Top FSB general is 'moved to high-security Moscow jail'​








Russian intelligence official is 'moved to high-security Moscow jail'


Col-General Sergei Beseda, 68, head of the 5th Service of the FSB, has now been placed in pre-trial detention in notorious Lefortovo Prison, it is claimed.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512823870012723204
> 
> I believe there’s 10,000 Starlink terminals in Ukraine.



From a military learning perspective - Starlink has been damn impressive - there are too many of the satellites for any military power to take them down - and they are cheap to build/replace versus conventional military satellites. A satellite constellation / distributed military cloud of sorts.. interesting.

Additionally - they allow for "distributed" warfare where you do not need to create massive C&C centres but can distribute them across your country including the kitchen sink if you have secure terminals aswell( which is fundamentally a locked down computer )..

Interesting for the future of warfare and one that a lot of countries would have noticed.

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## F-22Raptor

Ali_Baba said:


> From a military learning perspective - Starlink has been damn impressive - there are too many of the satellites for any military power to take them down - and they are cheap to build/replace versus conventional military satellites. A satellite constellation / distributed military cloud of sorts.. interesting.
> 
> Additionally - they allow for "distributed" warfare where you do not need to create massive C&C centres but can distribute them across your country including the kitchen sink if you have secure terminals aswell( which is fundamentally a locked down computer )..
> 
> Interesting for the future of warfare and one that a lot of countries would have noticed.



Elon stated a few weeks ago that the Russians have been unable to jam Starlink.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512814283666731012

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512774624777547780


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512831468589957122

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512831666452156429

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512831767799078915

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512832408298610690


----------



## sammuel

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512760553722322954^ I will obviously not post the footage...





UKBengali said:


> Wow, if true then this is absolutely montrous.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512699954451656709


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

sammuel said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512699954451656709



Fake recording done by Ukrainians.

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## Viet

My great respect to UK Boris Johnson 

Keep it up

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## F-22Raptor

Viet said:


> My great respect to UK Boris Johnson
> 
> Keep it up
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 832489





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512835320668168201


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Su-25SM3 CAS jet low pass in Donbas


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512335440656932864


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512835320668168201



Anti ship missile is good but Ukraine has no warship or submarine and land based launchers cannot out range Kalibr cruise missile which has 2,000 km range.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512835208059494403


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512771366264745984

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## Clutch

Wood said:


> Audio recording of conversation between Russia's marauders at work.


BS... Those recodings are most probably made by Ukrainian Nazis.... Just like CNN lied about Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction....

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512815342325846016

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512840690744578057


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512841964193869828

Wow, first OFFICIAL confirmation I’ve seen

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Clutch

Viet said:


> The Asov will not surrender.



So too won't ISIS surrender in Syria. Will you please hug an ISIS....


----------



## kingQamaR

Clutch said:


> So too won't ISIS surrender in Syria. Will you please hug an ISIS....



Aren't you supposed to be having a cuppa ? Might clear that thick fog from your mind.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512194639155056649


----------



## Clutch

kingQamaR said:


> Aren't you supposed to be having a cuppa ? Might clear that thick fog from your mind.



Why?... What did I say that bothered you so much?

Why are Nazis better than ISIS? Aren't they both evil?


----------



## LeGenD

Clutch said:


> BS... Those recodings are most probably made by Ukrainian Nazis.... Just like CNN lied about Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction....


*FYI*









Germany ‘intercepts Russian radio messages discussing Bucha killings’


The BND intelligence agency reportedly presented its findings to the country’s parliament on Wednesday




www.independent.co.uk













Russia’s Bucha ‘Facts’ Versus the Evidence - bellingcat


Open source evidence appears to contradict Russian claims of elaborate fakes in Ukrainian town where dead bodies were found strewn across street.




www.bellingcat.com





Russians are truthful and honorable in your worldview? How can you be so sure? Were you in Bucha?

Understand this much: any SIDE will LIE when it suits its cause. Humans are NOT angels after all.

Koi bhi doodh kaa dhula nahin hota.

What happened to Iraq was unfortunate but hidden caches of Iraqi chemical weapons were found after the invasion:

"A _New York Times_ investigation by C.J. Chivers revealed that the dismantlement of Iraq’s CW program was not as clear-cut as originally thought. The investigation revealed that approximately 5,000 chemical warheads, shells, or aviation bombs were recovered following the 2003 Iraq war. [15] Although all of these munitions were produced before 1991, they did pose serious hazards; at least 17 American soldiers and seven Iraqi police officers were exposed to CW agents. [16] A subsequent investigation by Chivers and Eric Schmitt revealed a major CIA-run effort, Operation Avarice, to purchase old chemical weapons that were on the Iraqi black market. The program purchased and destroyed over 400 Borak rockets, many of which contained sarin. [17]"









Iraq Chemical Overview


Overview of Iraq's chemical capabilities and nonproliferation activities




www.nti.org





_Where there's smoke, there's fire._

Independent observers should do their homework instead of sticking to narratives to dismiss one SIDE all the time.

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## Clutch

LeGenD said:


> *FYI*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Germany ‘intercepts Russian radio messages discussing Bucha killings’
> 
> 
> The BND intelligence agency reportedly presented its findings to the country’s parliament on Wednesday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia’s Bucha ‘Facts’ Versus the Evidence - bellingcat
> 
> 
> Open source evidence appears to contradict Russian claims of elaborate fakes in Ukrainian town where dead bodies were found strewn across street.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bellingcat.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russians are truthful and honorable in your worldview? How can you be so sure? Were you in Bucha?
> 
> Understand this much: any SIDE will LIE when it suits its cause. Humans are NOT angels after all.
> 
> Koi bhi doodh kaa dhula nahin hota.
> 
> What happened to Iraq was unfortunate but hidden caches of Iraqi chemical weapons were found after the invasion:
> 
> "A _New York Times_ investigation by C.J. Chivers revealed that the dismantlement of Iraq’s CW program was not as clear-cut as originally thought. The investigation revealed that approximately 5,000 chemical warheads, shells, or aviation bombs were recovered following the 2003 Iraq war. [15] Although all of these munitions were produced before 1991, they did pose serious hazards; at least 17 American soldiers and seven Iraqi police officers were exposed to CW agents. [16] A subsequent investigation by Chivers and Eric Schmitt revealed a major CIA-run effort, Operation Avarice, to purchase old chemical weapons that were on the Iraqi black market. The program purchased and destroyed over 400 Borak rockets, many of which contained sarin. [17]"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iraq Chemical Overview
> 
> 
> Overview of Iraq's chemical capabilities and nonproliferation activities
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nti.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Where there's smoke, there's fire._
> 
> Independent observers should do their homework instead of sticking to narratives to dismiss one SIDE all the time.



I do not trust Western Mainstream Misinformation Media... Aka #FakeNews

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## Viet

Not bad
On a donor conference the West and its allies give 10 billion euros for supporting Ukraine refugees.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## kingQamaR

LeGenD said:


> *FYI*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Germany ‘intercepts Russian radio messages discussing Bucha killings’
> 
> 
> The BND intelligence agency reportedly presented its findings to the country’s parliament on Wednesday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia’s Bucha ‘Facts’ Versus the Evidence - bellingcat
> 
> 
> Open source evidence appears to contradict Russian claims of elaborate fakes in Ukrainian town where dead bodies were found strewn across street.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bellingcat.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russians are truthful and honorable in your worldview? How can you be so sure? Were you in Bucha?
> 
> Understand this much: any SIDE will LIE when it suits its cause. Koi bhi doodh kaa dhula nahin hota.
> 
> What happened to Iraq was unfortunate but hidden caches of Iraqi chemical weapons were found after the invasion:
> 
> "A _New York Times_ investigation by C.J. Chivers revealed that the dismantlement of Iraq’s CW program was not as clear-cut as originally thought. The investigation revealed that approximately 5,000 chemical warheads, shells, or aviation bombs were recovered following the 2003 Iraq war. [15] Although all of these munitions were produced before 1991, they did pose serious hazards; at least 17 American soldiers and seven Iraqi police officers were exposed to CW agents. [16] A subsequent investigation by Chivers and Eric Schmitt revealed a major CIA-run effort, Operation Avarice, to purchase old chemical weapons that were on the Iraqi black market. The program purchased and destroyed over 400 Borak rockets, many of which contained sarin. [17]"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iraq Chemical Overview
> 
> 
> Overview of Iraq's chemical capabilities and nonproliferation activities
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nti.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Independent observers should do their homework instead of sticking to narratives to dismiss one SIDE all the time.



What do you expect some people on here have gone so far down the rabbit hole they refuse to believe anything any more It's not just healthy scepticism either they will just refuse to believe anything or have a twisted explanation

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## Viet

Clutch said:


> So too won't ISIS surrender in Syria. Will you please hug an ISIS....


No why should I do that?
The Asov defends their homeland not for a religious ideology.
They must hold position as long as possible until the main force arrives.


----------



## LeGenD

Clutch said:


> I do not trust Western Mainstream Misinformation Media... Aka #FakeNews


MSM of (every) country have questionable track record. Not only Western.

Bellingcat and NTI are not a part of Western MSM. I check these sources more often for good reason.

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## Clutch

Viet said:


> No why should I do that?
> The Asov defends their homeland not for a religious ideology.
> They must hold position as long as possible until the main force arrives.



Lol .. what's the difference. Religious ideology or national ideology. Both are for land and mind. You are only exposing your hypocrisy.
Azov = ISIS = Nazi



LeGenD said:


> MSM of (every) country have questionable track record. Not only Western.
> 
> Bellingcat and NTI are not a part of Western MSM. I check these sources more often for good reason.



Agreed!

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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Su-25SM3 CAS jet low pass in Donbas
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512335440656932864
> 
> 
> Anti ship missile is good but Ukraine has no warship or submarine and land based launchers cannot out range Kalibr cruise missile which has 2,000 km range.


Well I am not military expert. Putin can forget Odessa. And let’s see Mariupol. His ships will be sunk if he tries to attack the city from the sea.


----------



## bobo6661

Clutch said:


> Azov = ISIS = Nazi


=wagner=nazi=russia


----------



## Clutch

bobo6661 said:


> =wagner=nazi=russia



My thoughts...

Russia = America = NATO = Azov = ISIS = NAZI = EU = Ukrain

Let them all go to hell.

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## bobo6661

Clutch said:


> My thoughts...
> 
> Russia = America = NATO = Azov = ISIS = NAZI = EU = Ukrain
> 
> Let them all go to hell



If you feel that way then dont play the nazi azow card ... at this point russia did more horrible crimes then azow

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512856722146217988

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## Clutch

bobo6661 said:


> If you feel that way then dont play the nazi azow card ... at this point russia did more horrible crimes then azow



I will. I do not have a dog in the fight. I say let all the Whites kill each other off. They have been bombing us for decades. Now let's see how their backyard becomes a battlefield. 

End of the day... Ukraine-Russia war is just Evil versus Evil.

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512836749629792258


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512856013162041352


----------



## LeGenD

Clutch said:


> Lol .. what's the difference. Religious ideology or national ideology. Both are for land and mind. You are only exposing your hypocrisy.
> Azov = ISIS = Nazi
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed!


Well, that is good.

Neo-Nazi are not only found in Ukraine but also in Russia. One Pakistani PDF member have visited these countries and he confirmed as much in this thread many pages earlier. I can tag him for you.

For perspective:

_"Apparently oblivious to these historical parallels, Putin sees Nazis on the march everywhere but at home. Yet it is he who routinely enlists the help of neo-Nazis like Dmitry Utkin, a mercenary with the Wagner Group, a private army financed by pro-Kremlin oligarchs, who bears Waffen-SS tattoos on his collarbone and chest."_









Who's the Nazi? | by Sławomir Sierakowski - Project Syndicate


Sławomir Sierakowski highlights the resemblance of Vladimir Putin's war on Ukraine to Adolf Hitler's destruction of Czechoslovakia.




www.project-syndicate.org





Another received a medal:









A soldier wearing Nazi imagery was given a medal by a Russia-backed separatist republic for killing Ukrainian 'nationalists'


The fighter's wore the "Valknot" and "Totenkopf," the first of which is tied to white supremacists and the second to Nazi Germany's SS divisions.




www.businessinsider.com





Following source is informative:









The Facts on 'De-Nazifying' Ukraine - FactCheck.org


Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky says Russia’s talk of “de-Nazifying” Ukraine is a non-starter in peace negotiations. We’ll explain what these claims are all about and why experts say they are misleading.




www.factcheck.org





Russian narrative about Ukraine = Pot calling kettle black

- - - -

ISIS is different from Neo-Nazi.

Neo-Nazi = Farright politics and/or regional cults

ISIS = Salafi jihadi khilafat movement (evolution of Al-Qaeda Networks).


----------



## Clutch

LeGenD said:


> ISIS is different from Neo-Nazi.
> 
> Neo-Nazi = Farright politics and/or regional cults
> 
> ISIS = Salafi jihadi khilafat movement (evolution of Al-Qaeda Networks).



End of the day. ISIS and Nazi mean the same thing for Muslims. Destruction, Oppression, Brutality, Fascist and Hatred. Doesn't matter what the colors of the flag are.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512867687982055424

Apparently the child molester and pedophile was arrested in Russia.

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## MyNameAintJeff

Wood said:


> Audio recording of conversation between Russia's marauders at work.


I'll be honest, I started listening with the assumption it was true, but after listening it's clear from a mile away that it's a script written by CNN or Ukrainians, and it's a very bad script at that

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## sammuel

~


MyNameAintJeff said:


> I'll be honest, I started listening with the assumption it was true, but after listening it's clear from a mile away that it's a script written by CNN or Ukrainians, and it's a very bad script at that



And this ? :


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512699954451656709
~

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

video from Izumy, including footage of Russian tank destroyers


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512874127874568195
Alligator CAS helicopters and T-64BV tanks painted with Z


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512861948463005701
Muslim men shooting thermobaric RPGs in Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512865627949748229
Russian civilians cheering invasion men as they head to the front


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512860847466504198
Russian invasion men capture Mariupol port


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512840519864442880
Su-34 CAS jets return after a bombing run over Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512848257889751043
Muslim men combat footage in Mariupol



https://twitter.com/200_zoka/status/1512840088098586624


----------



## Hack-Hook

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Su-34 CAS jets return after a bombing run over Mariupol
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512848257889751043
> Muslim men combat footage in Mariupol
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/200_zoka/status/1512840088098586624


Only in Russia weird war doctrine Su-34 work as a CAS aircraft


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hack-Hook said:


> Only in Russia weird war doctrine Su-34 work as a CAS aircraft



Su-34 has armored cockpit and is intended to phase out aging Su-25. Su-34 has thermal imaging targeting and can shoot stand off missiles at ground targets.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512887938048307205


----------



## Hack-Hook

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Su-34 has armored cockpit and is intended to phase out aging Su-25. Su-34 has thermal imaging targeting and can shoot stand off missiles at ground targets.


not Su-25 but Su-24 and Tu-22m
so no it was not designed for CAS role


the replacement of SU-35 was supposed to be su-39 but because it was expensive upgrade , Russia opt for more affordable Su-25sm

its su-25tm or su-39





and its su-25sm russia opted for


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russian invasion men using KUB-BLA kamikaze drones against Ukrainian defenders in Donbas


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512893051164844037

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512893214809858057


----------



## Hack-Hook

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512887645415907342


these type of media supposed to have spoiler tag


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hack-Hook said:


> not Su-25 but Su-24 and Tu-22m
> so no it was not designed for CAS role
> 
> 
> the replacement of SU-35 was supposed to be su-39 but because it was expensive upgrade , Russia opt for more affordable Su-25sm
> 
> its su-25tm or su-39
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and its su-25sm russia opted for



Su-34 has better range than Su-25. Su-34 phases out Su-25, Su-24, but not Tu-22M3 due to the latter's ability to deploy large bombs such as KAB-3000.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512895305909424129


----------



## Hack-Hook

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Su-34 has better range than Su-25. Su-34 phases out Su-25, Su-24, but not Tu-22M3 due to the latter's ability to deploy large bombs such as KAB-3000.


the number of tu-22 is limited and it cant survive in enemy airspace and if you mean FAB-3000 it can be deployed from other platforms and honestly it is a little outdated about KAB series I'm aware of KAB-1500 that can be deployed from flanker family

and no it was never meant to replace Su25 , it was replacement of Su-24 and proposed replacement fot Tu-22


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512895285109923846

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512895285109923846


Is it wise for him to be tweeting this? 🤔


----------



## Primus

Wood said:


> Is it wise for him to be tweeting this? 🤔


Not really but what do you expect from a keyboard warrior acting as a soldier?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512906026047225863

Russia now has over 2,700 visually confirmed losses

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## Oldman1

-=virus=- said:


> that can not possible be true.











Where is the Russian Air Force? Experts break down why they might be hiding


The Russian combat air force has not achieved air superiority despite being 15 times the size of Ukraine's combat air force.




taskandpurpose.com





Perhaps the answer is that Russian pilots are not up to the task, Bronk proposed. Official Russian military statements suggest that Russian pilots fly a bit under 100 hours a year, compared to U.S. Air Force pilots who fly around 180-240 hours a year, Bronk said. Without enough training, pilots might struggle to master the hundreds of new jets Russia has acquired in recent years.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512867687982055424
> 
> Apparently the child molester and pedophile was arrested in Russia.


Did they arrest him because of what he did, or because he posted it on social media and now they have to do damage control?



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512856722146217988


Putin jealous, another goal why he invaded Ukraine.



Huffal said:


> Not really but what do you expect from a keyboard warrior acting as a soldier?


LOL! Thats ironic. Calling someone actually fighting in Ukraine a keyboard warrior.

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## Oldman1

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512835320668168201


Not just anti ship missiles. Need to help Ukraine with artillery and MLRS with long range munitions along with long range loitering munitions. Able to hit the supply lines and command and control targets.


----------



## thetutle

Clutch said:


> End of the day. ISIS and Nazi mean the same thing for Muslims. Destruction, Oppression, Brutality, Fascist and Hatred. Doesn't matter what the colors of the flag are.


So you admit nazis are really bad. Did you know in WW2 the grand mufti of Jerusalem was good friends with hitler. Do you support Israel for denazifying Palestine?


----------



## Oldman1

Ali_Baba said:


> From a military learning perspective - Starlink has been damn impressive - there are too many of the satellites for any military power to take them down - and they are cheap to build/replace versus conventional military satellites. A satellite constellation / distributed military cloud of sorts.. interesting.
> 
> Additionally - they allow for "distributed" warfare where you do not need to create massive C&C centres but can distribute them across your country including the kitchen sink if you have secure terminals aswell( which is fundamentally a locked down computer )..
> 
> Interesting for the future of warfare and one that a lot of countries would have noticed.




__
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tzoxfc


----------



## Oldman1

Ukrainians nearly finish reconnecting Irpin to Kiev with a temporary bridge.


----------



## PakFactor

Russia appoints new general to oversee Ukraine invasion






theweek.com





They appointed the General who was responsible for OPs in Syria. This could get interesting and bloody.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512917642956488705


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

mmr said:


> is this why japan South korea working with nato...and sending there fm for the first time. Nato already know what is the next target and Americans are doing good job.
> 
> India is following wait and see approach. Thats why i said time will tell who else will join in asia pacific.
> 
> Its not about culture. Its about self interest and what you will get in return.
> 
> Since russia didnt switch gas off after there own deadlines why will any one be worried lol.


  

Many years ago when SK *President Park Geum-Hye* stood on the top of the Forbidden city to watch China celebration, I predicted her downfall.

The same applied to former Japan PM.

Do you know how I could make such predictions so easily and accurately?
By my understanding of the regional geopolitics.

As told by retired Japanese ambassadors and now admission by retired CIA contractors including Edward Snowdens as well since the end of WW2, the US has been infiltrated the entire political systems of these 2 nations mentioned and others.

The only consequences of such clandestine and sometimes arm twisting interferences will only results in the continuation of conundrum and political upheavals in these nations in years ahead. Mark my words.

The recent political upheaval in Pakistan is one of them. Hong Kong and Bangkok were other examples.

Hing Kong has installed its National Security Law and peace returned. Thailand introduced new law that threatened to jail foreign NGOS for interference and they instantly left.

India without any US military bases appears safe in there at the moment will still be able to state its independent stances runs the risk of instigated color revolutions. Because of the presence of these foreign NGOs in disguise funded by NED. National Endowment for Democracy aka the C. I... Isn't India democratic and so why the NED funding?

If Russia were to switch off the gas to Germany and EU today, these nations will be immediately be in deep shit.

Norway is already at full capacity and KSA and UAE are not cooperating. US is committed to deliveries of her gas to China as signed in Nov-Dec 2021.

That is why Biden out of idea is force to release 1 million barrel per day from its Strategic Reserves. He send his Sec of State all over the world including Venezuela and Iran to seek additional supplies. It is humiliating.

Hence there is a recent report in Guardian I think that said EU nations in need of Russian gas is mulling to settle in Chinese RMB instead.

*No payment No Gas. *

Unlike EU which slapped itself in the face applying sanctuons that only hurts itself.

I am surprised some of the members here have little or no respect for contracts or the rule of law.

Is it the effect of years of indoctrination aka...

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russian invasion men shelling Kharkov


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512849153407266830

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512819998351364108


----------



## Wood

If Ukraine is indeed set to join EU, then the gas deposits discovered at the Eastern part of the country is very important for EU.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Wood said:


> If Ukraine is indeed set to join EU, then the gas deposits discovered at the Eastern part of the country is very important for EU.



One of the conditions for ending the war is Ukraine cede Donbas to Russia.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512939123115323393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512944412212359171

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512927230443200514


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

IMO the only reason so why many warplanes from either side esp. SU-24 and helicopters got shot down is because they are flying too low to hit their targets

This is unlike the US strategy of attacking targets at high attitudes resulting in far too many civilians casualties which of course they will denied.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512899589229232130


----------



## Vergennes

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> IMO the only reason so why many warplanes from either side esp. SU-24 and helicopters got shot down is because they are flying too low to hit their targets
> 
> This is unlike the US strategy of attacking targets at high attitudes resulting in far too many civilians casualties which of course they will denied.



Russian air force is trash,the reason they are flying low is because they lack targeting pods and guided bombs in great numbers,so they have to use unguided rockets and bombs,flying low to achieve some accuracy.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512949130498392066

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512923122005127168

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## mmr

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Many years ago when SK *President Park Geum-Hye* stood on the top of the Forbidden city to watch China celebration, I predicted her downfall.
> 
> The same applied to former Japan PM.
> 
> Do you know how I could make such predictions so easily and accurately?
> By my understanding of the regional geopolitics.
> 
> As told by retired Japanese ambassadors and now admission by retired CIA contractors including Edward Snowdens as well since the end of WW2, the US has been infiltrated the entire political systems of these 2 nations mentioned and others.
> 
> The only consequences of such clandestine and sometimes arm twisting interferences will only results in the continuation of conundrum and political upheavals in these nations in years ahead. Mark my words.
> 
> The recent political upheaval in Pakistan is one of them. Hong Kong and Bangkok were other examples.
> 
> Hing Kong has installed its National Security Law and peace returned. Thailand introduced new law that threatened to jail foreign NGOS for interference and they instantly left.
> 
> India without any US military bases appears safe in there at the moment will still be able to state its independent stances runs the risk of instigated color revolutions. Because of the presence of these foreign NGOs in disguise funded by NED. National Endowment for Democracy aka the C. I... Isn't India democratic and so why the NED funding?
> 
> If Russia were to switch off the gas to Germany and EU today, these nations will be immediately be in deep shit.
> 
> Norway is already at full capacity and KSA and UAE are not cooperating. US is committed to deliveries of her gas to China as signed in Nov-Dec 2021.
> 
> That is why Biden out of idea is force to release 1 million barrel per day from its Strategic Reserves. He send his Sec of State all over the world including Venezuela and Iran to seek additional supplies. It is humiliating.
> 
> Hence there is a recent report in Guardian I think that said EU nations in need of Russian gas is mulling to settle in Chinese RMB instead.
> 
> *No payment No Gas. *
> 
> Unlike EU which slapped itself in the face applying sanctuons that only hurts itself.
> 
> I am surprised some of the members here have little or no respect for contracts or the rule of law.
> 
> Is it the effect of years of indoctrination aka...


Times has changed. Dont matter what happened in the past. Now we are going back 1990. And cold war 2.0.

Japan south korea aus and new Zealand all will work with nato. Its already visible. Unfortunately for china other then broke countries like myanmar and North korea no one want to form military alliance.

Russian gas will be replaced in coming years. And they wont cut gas. Simply dont have the balls to do that. No one take Russian side seriously since they don't cut gas line after repeating same bs warning about rouble payments lol.

Let me know when they cut the gas line lol.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CAPRICORN-88

Germany Urges Banks, Clients to Keep Deals With Gazprom Unit​
Energy regulator sends letters to lenders, peers, customers
BNetzA warns of potential bankruptcy and break down of market









Germany Urges Banks, Clients to Keep Deals With Gazprom Unit


The German regulator in control of a Gazprom PJSC unit in the country urged banks and trading partners to keep doing business with the company to avoid a market meltdown.




www.bloomberg.com





Time has indeed changed and this is the present reality. Like it or not.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CAPRICORN-88

Is Russia slowly turning off the supply of GAS to EU nations from Ukraine pipeline? 

Gazprom says gas shipments via Ukraine down to 78.3 million cubic metres​Reuters

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512961566265602050

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512960573226553345

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512955148972134408

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CAPRICORN-88

Russia coal and oil paid for in yuan starts heading to China​Bloomberg
https://www.theedgemarkets.com/source/Bloomberg
April 08, 2022

(April 8): Russian coal and oil paid for in yuan is about to start flowing into China as the two countries try to maintain their energy trade in the face of growing international outrage over the invasion of Ukraine.

Several Chinese firms used local currency to buy Russian coal in March, and the first cargoes will arrive this month, Chinese consultancy Fenwei Energy Information Service Co. said. These will be the first commodity shipments paid for in yuan since the U.S. and Europe penalized Russia and cut several of its banks off from the international financial system, according to traders.

Sellers of Russian crude have also offered to give buyers in Asia’s largest economy the flexibility to pay in yuan. The first cargoes of the ESPO grade bought with the Chinese currency will be delivered to independent refiners in May, according to people familiar with the purchases.

China has long bristled at the dollar’s dominance in global trade and the political leverage it gives the U.S. Efforts to chip away at the status quo are now being accelerated by Western steps to punish Russia for its war of aggression. Moscow is offering rupee-ruble payments to Indian oil buyers, while Saudi Arabia is in talks with Beijing to price some of its crude in yuan.

It’s unlikely the yuan will pose a serious challenge to the dollar’s dominance, however, at least in the short term. The U.S. currency was used for 88% of foreign-exchange transactions in 2019, compared to 4.3% for the yuan, according to the Bank for International Settlements.

Both steel-making and power-plant coal are being paid for in yuan, Fenwei said. These deals are traditionally done in dollars, but many Chinese buyers temporarily halted purchases after the U.S. and Europe cut off Russian lenders from the SWIFT inter-bank messaging system.

Russia was China’s No. 2 coal supplier last year, filling the gap left by Beijing’s trade tussle with Australia. Nearly half of the imports from Russia are metallurgical coal, which is in demand after the partial resumption of operations in the Chinese steel-making hub of Tangshan. This type of coal isn’t subject to government price controls that apply to power-plant fuel.

While Chinese buyers are interested in importing more Russian supplies, logistics and financing barriers will ultimately cap the flows, the China Coal Transport and Distribution Association said last month.

*The ruble, meanwhile, has recovered to levels where it was before the invasion of Ukraine. After plunging to around 140 to the dollar in early March, the Russian currency is now back near 80.*

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## CAPRICORN-88

*Russia Central Bank has just announced a cut in its interest rate in view of the stability of the Ruble and her economy. *

But folks in here are speculating and arguing that Russia economy has already collapsed or is collapsing.

So which one is true?

Who shall we believe?

Facts or made believe opinions?

And why should it bothers us if Russia or Ukraine is winning or losing the war?

The immediate winners and beneficiaries is not EU or UK but the US thru increased sales of Gas and Oil to EU which she herself is lacking at this point and the sales of weapons.

And indirectly benefits China and also India as well.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512963901377458184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512888946765746188


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512965928186568706


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512896945181937676


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502550038731497474

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512961214304894979

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512966207011500040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512966988410273795

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Primus

Oldman1 said:


> LOL! Thats ironic. Calling someone actually fighting in Ukraine a keyboard warrior.


Ok armchair general sir


----------



## Viet

Clutch said:


> End of the day. ISIS and Nazi mean the same thing for Muslims. Destruction, Oppression, Brutality, Fascist and Hatred. Doesn't matter what the colors of the flag are.


Nazi has a extreme racial, military and political ideology you are too blinded by bias. Nazi has first and foremost nothing to do with Islam.


----------



## Clutch

LeGenD said:


> ISIS is different from Neo-Nazi.
> 
> Neo-Nazi = Farright politics and/or regional cults
> 
> ISIS = Salafi jihadi khilafat movement (evolution of Al-Qaeda Networks).



End of the day. ISIS and Nazi mean the same thing for Muslims. Destruction, Oppression, Brutality, Fascist and Hatred. Doesn't matter what the colors of the flag are.


Viet said:


> Nazi has a extreme racial, military and political ideology you are too blinded by bias. Nazi has first and foremost nothing to do with Islam.



Exactly... Nor does ISIS.b

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

The war is not going well.
Putin replaced his general.

Alexander Dvornikov, commander of Russia’s Southern Military District, is the new theater commander for the military campaign in Ukraine.

Dvornikov is famous as the butcher of Sylvia.

More blood will be shed.


----------



## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *Russia Central Bank has just announced a cut in its interest rate in view of the stability of the Ruble and her economy. *
> 
> But folks in here are speculating and arguing that Russia economy has already collapsed or is collapsing.
> 
> So which one is true?
> 
> Who shall we believe?
> 
> Facts or made believe opinions?
> 
> And why should it bothers us if Russia or Ukraine is winning or losing the war?
> 
> The immediate winners and beneficiaries is not EU or UK but the US thru increased sales of Gas and Oil to EU which she herself is lacking at this point and the sales of weapons.
> 
> And indirectly benefits China and also India as well.


As I told you several times the ruble exchange rate is faked. If true 5,000 ruble for 1g gold, then every man or women has the right to exchange worthless ruble to gold.

How much gold has Russia central bank?

Women to the front 














Lend-Lease for Ukraine: US revives WWII anti-Hitler policy to defeat Putin


The United States is reviving the WWII Lend-Lease program which helped defeat Hitler in order to dramatically increase arms deliveries to Ukraine and set the stage for Vladimir Putin's eventual military defeat.




www.atlanticcouncil.org

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## CAPRICORN-88

Viet said:


> As I told you several times the ruble exchange rate is faked. If true 5,000 ruble for 1g gold, then every man or women has the right to exchange worthless ruble to gold.
> 
> How much gold has Russia central bank?
> 
> Women to the front
> 
> View attachment 832773
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lend-Lease for Ukraine: US revives WWII anti-Hitler policy to defeat Putin
> 
> 
> The United States is reviving the WWII Lend-Lease program which helped defeat Hitler in order to dramatically increase arms deliveries to Ukraine and set the stage for Vladimir Putin's eventual military defeat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.atlanticcouncil.org


Stop trolling in here. 

Read something that is more related to Pol Pot, your idol and cousin.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Stop trolling in here.
> 
> Read something that is more related to Pol Pot, your idol and cousin.


It’s you to stop trolling
You contribute nothing here except cheering aggression, bloodshed, blinded hatred and racism.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Angry Angry:
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## CAPRICORN-88

* 
Russia relaxes rules on foreign exchange buying as ruble rallies*
CGTN April 9, 2022

*Russia will relax temporary capital control measures aimed at limiting a drop in the ruble by allowing individuals to buy cash foreign currency and will also scrap commission for buying forex through brokerages, the central bank said on Friday.*

The ruble has rebounded on the Moscow Exchange from record lows in March to levels seen before February 24 when Russia started "a special military operation" in Ukraine, as capital control measures suffocated demand for forex.

The central bank said banks will be allowed to sell cash foreign currency to individuals from April 18 but only the notes they have received no earlier than on April 9.

The central bank is also scrapping its requirement for banks to limit the gap between prices at which they offer to buy and sell foreign exchange. But it recommended banks sell forex to import-focused companies at a rate of no more than two rubles above the market rate.

The central bank said individuals will be allowed to withdraw not only dollars but also euros from their accounts from April 11, but kept the maximum amount that can be withdrawn until September 9 at the equivalent of $10,000.

The central bank also said it will scrap a 12-percent commission for buying foreign currency through brokerages, confirming earlier reports by Tinkoff Bank and Alfa Bank.

The central bank introduced a 30-percent commission on buying forex for individuals in early March. The commission was later lowered to 12 percent.

Restrictions on buying forex together with the order for export-focused companies to convert 80 percent of their FX revenues helped the ruble regain ground. On Friday, the ruble hit its strongest level against the euro since June 2020 and jumped to a 2022 high against the dollar.

The move to scrap the commission along with the central bank's decision to cut its key rate to 17 percent should lower the ruble's volatility, VTB Capital analysts said.

(With input from Reuters)

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## Soldier35

In an interview, one of the soldiers of the Ukrainian army said that the most terrible thing is the work of Russian aviation in Ukraine. "Such a terrible thing is not for everyone, it already hurts the bones when aviation is working." Video, the work of Russian aviation in Ukraine

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Bengal71

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Man, they're still using old bazookas. What happened to the Kornet anti-tank missiles that Russia sells to the rest of the world? They should've equipped their reserves, who are sent to the front line in South and Eastern Ukraine, with those weapons.



I heard kornet is very expensive for Russia. Also I don't think any army will use the most expensive weapons for regular use.


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512874810803642376
pro putin guys here


----------



## patero

Viet said:


> The war is not going well.
> Putin replaced his general.
> 
> Alexander Dvornikov, commander of Russia’s Southern Military District, is the new theater commander for the military campaign in Ukraine.
> 
> Dvornikov is famous as the butcher of Sylvia.
> 
> More blood will be shed.
> 
> 
> View attachment 832767


It's difficult to judge from one photo, but he looks like a man who doesn't experience a lot of joy in his life. A persons predominant mental and emotional state often becomes etched on their face as they age, he shares a rather grim looking disposition I saw over many years on the face of Russians I worked with. I think the same thing everytime I see Lavrov.



Viet said:


> As I told you several times the ruble exchange rate is faked. If true 5,000 ruble for 1g gold, then every man or women has the right to exchange worthless ruble to gold.
> 
> How much gold has Russia central bank?


How much is a currency worth that technically can't be sold.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## sammuel

~

Russian soldier arrested after vile video of baby being raped emerges​Russian troops have been accused of widespread crimes against civilians during their illegal invasion of Ukraine including rape, torture and targeting civilians









A Russian soldier has been arrested after a vile video of a baby being raped emerged online.

Alexei Bychkov has been named in Russian media as the soldier arrested and it is thought the video originates from the Ukraine conflict.


If true it would be the latest Russian abomination to shock the world with Kremlin troops repeatedly accused of war crimes and genocide.

The video has been shared on Telegram and other social media sites although few details about it have been confirmed.

Ukraine media reports the man sent vile images and videos to a fellow soldier and it disseminated from there.

On Saturday Boris Johnson made a surprise visit to the Ukraine capital Kyiv where he spoke with President Volodymyr Zelensky and walked the city's streets.

Mr Johnson said that while Russian forces attacking Kyiv had suffered a defeat, their withdrawal was "tactical" as they prepared to refocus their military efforts on the east.

He strongly condemned the "war crimes" being uncovered in the wake of their departure, with scores bodies of civilians who have been shot and killed being reported by the Ukrainian authorities.


"I think what Putin has done in places like Bucha and Irpin, his war crimes have permanently polluted his reputation and the reputation of his government," he said.










Russian soldier arrested after vile video of baby being raped emerges


Russian troops have been accused of widespread crimes against civilians during their illegal invasion of Ukraine including rape, torture and targeting civilians




www.mirror.co.uk


----------



## Viet

That will give Ukraine army a huge boost for the southern offensive.
Zelenski presses Germany to greenlight the delivery of 100x Panzerhaubitzer.
Krauss Maffei hat made the offer to Ukraine.






Quelle: Laurent Van der Stockt/Le Monde/Getty Images; Steffi Loos-Pool/Getty Images;Montage: Infografik WELT









Waffenlieferungen: Ukraine liegt Angebot für deutsche Panzerhaubitzen vor - WELT


Die Ukraine benötigt schwere Waffen, um die russische Armee aus großer Entfernung anzugreifen. Nach Informationen von WELT AM SONNTAG hat Kiew der Bundesregierung ein Angebot der Industrie vorgelegt. 100 Panzerhaubitzen sollen von der Bundeswehr in die Ukraine geliefert – und fabrikneu ersetzt...




www.welt.de


----------



## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512883967942619136

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Viet

patero said:


> It's difficult to judge from one photo, but he looks like a man who doesn't experience a lot of joy in his life. A persons predominant mental and emotional state often becomes etched on their face as they age, he shares a rather grim looking disposition I saw over many years on the face of Russians I worked with. I think the same thing everytime I see Lavrov.
> 
> 
> How much is a currency worth that technically can't be sold.


It’s not easy. Russia manipulation makes difficult to determine the fair ruble value. We talking about fair exchange rate. Fair is if the currency is free of political manipulations. People can buy it, people can sell it.
Iran currency lost 90 percent.
Given the sanctions on Russia are worse than Iran, Cuba, NK and Syria combined the ruble should lose 90 percent. Minimum.

I would put $1 to 200 rubles as fair value.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CAPRICORN-88

Russia strikes Ukrainian airbase, destroying aircraft and an ammunition depot, say reports​Bethany Dawson 
Apr 9, 2022,


Russian forces have destroyed an ammunition depot at the Myrhorod Air Base in Central Ukraine. 
Ukrainian authorities have said that two people have been injured. 
Reports say a Ukrainian air force MiG-29 fighter jet and a Mi-8 helicopter have been destroyed.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CAPRICORN-88

America's wealthiest agriculture family has gotten even richer as the Ukraine war sends food prices skyrocketing​Hannah Towey
18 hours ago






Martha "Muffy" MacMillan speaks during Women's Entrepreneurship Day at the United Nations in 2015. She is one of 12 billionaire heirs to the Cargill dynasty. Jemal Countess/Getty Images

The Cargills, an agricultural dynasty going back six generations, are one of America's richest families.
Three more Cargill heirs just joined Bloomberg's Billionaire Index, bringing the total to five.
The Ukraine war has sent food prices to a record high, "hitting the poorest the hardest," the UN says.

Three heirs of the Cargill-MacMillans, a six-generation dynasty that founded the world's largest agriculture company, have joined Bloomberg's Billionaire Index — bringing the total number of family members on the list to five.
The Cargill-MacMillans have consistently ranked among the 25 richest families in America, and are currently listed by Forbes as the nation's fourth-richest family, behind the Waltons, Kochs, and Mars. Together, the family has a combined net worth of $51.6 billion, Bloomberg reported in September.
The recent rise in the secretive family's fortune comes as the Ukraine war sends food prices around the world to record highs, a trend that will hit "the poorest the hardest," the UN said Friday.
But as rampant inflation and instability spark fears of a global food crisis, Big Agriculture companies have so far benefited from the volatility.

Cargill Inc. made $4.9 billion last year, its highest profit ever, per the Bloomberg report. And public competitors like Tyson Foods, Archer Daniels Midland, and Bunge each out-performed the market this week as the cost of soybeans, grains, and corn surge.
Approximately 90 family members own 88% of Cargill Inc., according to a Forbes profile from 2020. That makes the agriculture and commodities behemoth one of the largest, closely-held private companies in the country.
Cargill was one of the later companies to announce it would be scaling back its business in Russia, despite the fact that a shipping vessel charted by the company was hit by a missile as it left a Southern Ukraine port in late February.
When contacted by Insider, a Cargill spokesperson said they "cannot speak for the family members" and pointed to the company's statement on the situation in Ukraine posted to its website.

"We are scaling back our business activities there to only operate essential food and feed facilities and have stopped investment," the company announced on March 30. "This region plays a significant role in our global food system and is a critical source for key ingredients in basic staples like bread, infant formula and cereal. *Food is a basic human right and should never be used as a weapon."*
Cargill will also be donating "any profits from these essential activities to humanitarian aid," the statement continued.


----------



## Soldier35

The destruction of the column by military equipment of the Ukrainian Army by KA-52 helicopters. Despite the threat of MANPADS, helicopters literally riddled armored vehicles and anti-aircraft installations of Ukraine with unguided S-8 missiles at close range.

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Love Love:
1


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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I like to spam the forum , sometimes a write the same massage 3 times just for the fun of it.




Is there a reason you are spamming this forum thread with double massages every half hour ?

Not the first time i see you do that. One massage you posted no less than 3 times.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513110070170640389


----------



## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513113856947675136


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512890416567304192


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513113856947675136




Looks like a chemical attack.



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512890416567304192



It seems one is rehashing old pictures.


----------



## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I never wrote those words, you wanker. Are you, as an IsraHelli, trying to get me banned in this Pakistani forum? Tough luck.




This is the fourth tome I saw you spam this thread with the same massage , You where already alerted on this issue , but obviously nothing changed,

This is the lame excuse you gave last time :




Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It is a typo issue with my mouse from Twiiter, but I've already fixed it. It just happens you're a slow guy who jumped too quickly to point it out without checking it again.



So what is it this time ?

~


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Germany. Stuttgart. Action in support of Russia.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512943340219768835


sammuel said:


> This is the fourth tome I saw you spam this thread with the same massage , You where already alerted on this issue , but obviously nothing changed,
> 
> This is the lame excuse toy gave last time :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what is it this time ?
> 
> ~




I have no idea what you're alluding to. Now, stop wasting my time, troll. i would rather use it on something useful.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513096073677574147

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513090051726475268

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513089073035943937

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513071512953114627

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513050159965360128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513047424675196929

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I have no idea what you're alluding to.



Don't play dumb , i see you removed it now after being challenged.

Maybe you need your memory refreshed :









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments






defence.pk







Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It is a typo issue with my mouse from Twiiter, but I've already fixed it. It just happens you're a slow guy who jumped too quickly to point it out without checking it again.



So what is your excuse this time ? cant be a mouth issue since the massages where written half an hour apart.

~
~


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513123986707820545


----------



## Menthol

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> A supporter of Israeli child rapists like you shouldn't be pointing the fingers at anyone else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian child says he was raped by Israeli interrogator
> 
> 
> Sexual violence and threats against detainees have been documented for years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> electronicintifada.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel: Palestinian children still being tortured in Israeli prisons
> 
> 
> Case ISR 050401.1.CC Follow up of case ISR 050401.CC CHILD CONCERN The International Secretariat of OMCT has received new information regarding the following situation in Israel. New information The International Secretariat of OMCT has been informed by the Public Committee against Torture in…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.omct.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli Soldiers Sexually Abuse Palestinian Children - Palestine Chronicle
> 
> 
> By Stephen Lendman On September 10, Israel’s YnetNews.com headlined, ‘IDF sexually abused Palestinian children,’ headlining: "Damning (September 9) CNN report cites uncorroborated sexual abuse charges of Palestinian children detained by IDF." Military officials refused to [...]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.palestinechronicle.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pedophilia is something ingrained in your beliefs.



In USA what happens is the opposite.

They arrest the journalist who reports it.

Russia government is 100x better than USA government.

I don't know what USA government is thinking.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513124234557599749

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513100411263139845

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513088837840482304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513084604994965504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513023666602196994

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513022983903666176


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513093559343321090

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## Menthol

Viet said:


> That will give Ukraine army a huge boost for the southern offensive.
> Zelenski presses Germany to greenlight the delivery of 100x Panzerhaubitzer.
> Krauss Maffei hat made the offer to Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quelle: Laurent Van der Stockt/Le Monde/Getty Images; Steffi Loos-Pool/Getty Images;Montage: Infografik WELT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Waffenlieferungen: Ukraine liegt Angebot für deutsche Panzerhaubitzen vor - WELT
> 
> 
> Die Ukraine benötigt schwere Waffen, um die russische Armee aus großer Entfernung anzugreifen. Nach Informationen von WELT AM SONNTAG hat Kiew der Bundesregierung ein Angebot der Industrie vorgelegt. 100 Panzerhaubitzen sollen von der Bundeswehr in die Ukraine geliefert – und fabrikneu ersetzt...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.welt.de



Ukraine asking for more weapons can mean Ukraine is losing the war.

As probably most of their weapons had been destroyed by Russia.

Western media is posting about one or two Russian military vehicles destroyed, but never reporting on how many Ukraine military vehicles had been destroyed.

Probably almost all of them.

That's why the comedy actor president is asking for donations.

Western media is trying to portray that Ukraine is winning, but at the same time they mock Ukraine.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Menthol said:


> Ukraine asking for more weapons can mean Ukraine is losing the war.
> 
> As probably most of their weapons had been destroyed by Russia.
> 
> Western media is posting about one or two Russian military vehicles destroyed, but never reporting on how many Ukraine military vehicles had been destroyed.
> 
> Probably almost all of them.
> 
> That's why the comedy actor president is asking for donations.
> 
> Western media is trying to portray that Ukraine is winning, but at the same time they mock Ukraine.



I 100% concur with these statements. The Western propagandists are polluting every platform, including PDF, with their bogus propaganda. They're desperately trying to win the propaganda war while silencing anyone who doesn't agree with them, in particular anyone they view as having pro-Russian sentiment.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513010955990364161


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## Viet

Menthol said:


> In USA what happens is the opposite.
> 
> They arrest the journalist who reports it.
> 
> Russia government is 100x better than USA government.
> 
> I don't know what USA government is thinking.


Really?
Why not go to Russia calling war as war?
15y in prison is waiting.


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## Menthol

DF41 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512883967942619136



Probably within the army of Ukraine, there are those who are pro-Russia.

Those armies are probably the real Ukraine army, unlike the NAZI army who is dreaming they are Germans, not Ukrainians.

Unless someone can explain why they did a suicidal attack on themselves?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513088837840482304


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## Menthol

Viet said:


> Really?
> Why not go to Russia calling war as war?
> 15y in prison is waiting.



Because Russia doesn't think it's a war.

Just like USA never admit Ukraine 2014 is a coup by USA, and the current Ukraine government is their puppet.

As well as admitting to systematically trying to remove Russia connection in Ukraine.

But you know, the reality is reality, despite whatever both USA and Russia are trying to lie.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Menthol said:


> Because Russia doesn't think it's a war.
> 
> Just like USA never admit Ukraine 2014 is a coup by USA, and the current Ukraine government is their puppet.
> 
> As well as admitting to systematically trying to remove Russia connection in Ukraine.
> 
> But you know, the reality is reality, despite whatever both USA and Russia are trying to lie.



War is outdated. US has never declare war since December 1941. By not calling it a war, no one faces war crimes.


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## Viet

Menthol said:


> Ukraine asking for more weapons can mean Ukraine is losing the war.
> 
> As probably most of their weapons had been destroyed by Russia.
> 
> Western media is posting about one or two Russian military vehicles destroyed, but never reporting on how many Ukraine military vehicles had been destroyed.
> 
> Probably almost all of them.
> 
> That's why the comedy actor president is asking for donations.
> 
> Western media is trying to portray that Ukraine is winning, but at the same time they mock Ukraine.


Use your brain
Russia army has not conquered any major city almost after 2 months of war. Putin is just frustrated. He resorts to terrorism. He replaced the commander. He blames the army for incompetence. He blames everyone except himself. It’s a standard practice of Russian army.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Looks like the operation to fully liberate the South and Eastern Ukraine will be escalated by the victorious Russian and pro-Russian armed forces. 👇 The NAZI army in Ukraine is gonna get rooted.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513123850141192194


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513076649801179138

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512951964082094083


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## Hassan Al-Somal

An old lady describing the crimes against the people that were committed by Azov Neo Nazis. She also talked about the forces who liberated them - the DPR, the Russian marines, and the Chechen forces. *She called the Chechens as having the hearts of gold.*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513122810734034960

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513080340964855810

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513077053964361728

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## Viet

Menthol said:


> Because Russia doesn't think it's a war.
> 
> Just like USA never admit Ukraine 2014 is a coup by USA, and the current Ukraine government is their puppet.
> 
> As well as admitting to systematically trying to remove Russia connection in Ukraine.
> 
> But you know, the reality is reality, despite whatever both USA and Russia are trying to lie.


Not a war?

You mean Russian tanks rolling into other country is a barbecue party or what?

What if Russian tanks rolling into China?
Will you call it war or special barbecue operation?

Even if Ukrainian is run by gay nazi sponsored by US imperialists what has it anything to do with Russia?


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> What if Russian tanks rolling into China?
> Will you call it war or special barbecue operation?



Xi and Putin are best pals. Why would Russian tanks be rolling into China uninvited? I think you need your head checked.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

Viet said:


> Not a war?
> You mean Russian tanks rolling into other country is a barbecue party or what?




When that country (Ukraine) has been massacring its citizens who happened to be Russians ethnically, and also when that country started putting the security of Russia at risk by inviting an outside military alliance (NATO) that was solely formed and is dedicated to the dissolution of the Russian federation, then Russian government and the Russian armed forces are obligated to act. It is not hard to understand why Russians entered this conflict that has been on-going for the past 8 years.

Heck, the Ukrainian nationalists and Neo Nazis introduced a bill that mandated the adoption of the Ukrainian language only. This provocative act was designed to deny the Russian-speaking people in Ukraine to have a voice in their own country. Their homes, towns, and cities in Eastern Ukraine were invaded, their livelihoods were demolished, and starvation was used as a weapon of war in order to remove these entire group of people from southern and eastern Ukraine. There is indeed an entire people whose suffering has not been told to the rest of the world and, in particular, to the Western audience.

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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Xi and Putin are best pals. Why would Russian tanks be rolling into China uninvited? I think you need your head checked.


Best pals?
Man, a perfect pair: a communist and a historic liar. They have nothing in common they just share a temporary common interest: hatred toward the West.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Best pals?
> Man, they just share a temporary common interest: hatred toward the West.



China has nukes. Not even America dares to conquer China to unify the human race under a single hegemony, you think Russia dares? What a joke. You need your head checked ASAP.

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> When that country (Ukraine) has been massacring its citizens who happened to Russians ethnically, and also when that country started putting the security of Russia at risk by inviting an outside military alliance (NATO) that was solely formed and is dedicated to the dissolution of the Russian federation, then Russian government and the Russian armed forces are obligated to act. It is not hard to understand why Russians entered this conflict that has been on-going for the past 8 years.


You fall into the trap. Use your brain. That is the same excuse when Hitler went to war.

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## Menthol

Viet said:


> Not a war?
> 
> You mean Russian tanks rolling into other country is a barbecue party or what?
> 
> What if Russian tanks rolling into China?
> Will you call it war or special barbecue operation?
> 
> Even if Ukrainian is run by gay nazi sponsored by US imperialists what has it anything to do with Russia?



Not a war is propaganda.

You know, these days some countries use different words to justify their action but what they actually do is a different thing.


I think you don't follow the conflict from the beginning.

It's called geopolitics.


----------



## thetutle

Menthol said:


> Ukraine asking for more weapons can mean Ukraine is losing the war.
> 
> As probably most of their weapons had been destroyed by Russia.
> 
> Western media is posting about one or two Russian military vehicles destroyed, but never reporting on how many Ukraine military vehicles had been destroyed.
> 
> Probably almost all of them.
> 
> That's why the comedy actor president is asking for donations.
> 
> Western media is trying to portray that Ukraine is winning, but at the same time they mock Ukraine.


Ukraine has had massive casualties and the whole country is being destroyed. As you can see. They have lost a lot of equipment. But that doesn't matter because they are fighting for their country to the end and the west will provide them with unlimited equipment and money to win this war if they want.

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## LeGenD

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> When that country (Ukraine) has been massacring its citizens who happened to Russians ethnically, and also when that country started putting the security of Russia at risk by inviting an outside military alliance (NATO) that was solely formed and is dedicated to the dissolution of the Russian federation, then Russian government and the Russian armed forces are obligated to act. It is not hard to understand why Russians entered this conflict that has been on-going for the past 8 years.
> 
> Heck, the Ukrainian nationalists and Neo Nazis introduced a bill that mandated the adoption of Ukrainian language only. This provocative act was designed to deny the Russian-speaking people in Ukraine to have a voice in their own country. Their homes, towns, ans cities in Eastern Ukraine were invaded, their livelihoods were demolished, and starvation was used as a weapon of war in order to remove these entire group of people from southern and eastern Ukraine. There is indeed an entire people whose suffering has not been told to the rest of the world and in partucular to the Western audience.


*FYI*





__





Russian 'deniable' intervention in Ukraine: how and why Russia broke the rules on JSTOR


ROY ALLISON, Russian 'deniable' intervention in Ukraine: how and why Russia broke the rules, International Affairs (Royal Institute of International Affairs 1944-), Vol. 90, No. 6 (November 2014), pp. 1255-1297




www.jstor.org


----------



## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> China has nukes. Not even America dares to conquer China to unify the human race under a single hegemony, you think Russia dares? What a joke. You need your head checked ASAP.


Forget this nazi shit propaganda. Forget Ukrainians harassing Russian ethnics. You conquer country to loot it. Nothing else. Russia is poor. Ukraine people will live much better life in few years than Russians can imagine. If Putin fails in Ukraine he can look elsewhere for richness for instance in China.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Forget this nazi shit propaganda. Forget Ukrainians harassing Russian ethnics. You conquer country to loot it. Nothing else. Russia is poor. Ukraine people will live much better life in few years than Russians can imagine. If Putin fails in Ukraine he can look elsewhere for richness for instance in China.



China and Russia have gold. Gold is the only real money. The rest are all garbage. 









List of countries by gold production - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## Menthol

Viet said:


> You fall into the trap. Use your brain. That is the same excuse when Hitler went to war.



WW1 and WW2 history are more complicated than what the winner of the war told us.

The war loser is not as bad as you think and the winner is not as good as you think.

All are propaganda.


----------



## oberschlesier

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> When that country (Ukraine) has been massacring its citizens who happened to Russians ethnically, and also when that country started putting the security of Russia at risk by inviting an outside military alliance (NATO) that was solely formed and is dedicated to the dissolution of the Russian federation, then Russian government and the Russian armed forces are obligated to act. It is not hard to understand why Russians entered this conflict that has been on-going for the past 8 years.



The reasons for this war is the failture of the Russian policy towards Ukraine and the only tool left is the army, which is as well failing to produce a favorable political outcome. Well, Russia started it with annexing Crimeria, if they would be a bit more patient, another Pro Russian President would take over sooner or later.


----------



## thetutle

Tai Hai Chen said:


> China and Russia have gold. Gold is the only real money. The rest are all garbage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List of countries by gold production - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


Can Russians buy gold with their Rubles? What is the price they will pay for an ounce of Gold?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Viet said:


> You fall into the trap. Use your brain. That is the same excuse when Hitler went to war.



The reasons Hitler went to war and the reasons that Russians went to war were completely different. People who want to hide the concerns of Russia and Russian people use that in order to hide their legitimate security and humanitarian concerns. Has President Biden made it very clear that Ukraine wouldn't be permitted to enter NATO - and has the US State Department stopped interfering in internal Ukrainian matters, this conflict would've been avoided. 

Instead, Western powers were arming Ukraine, were encouraging the Ukrainian nationalists and Neo Nazis to double their anti-Russian efforts, and were consistently sanctioning Russia for its support to ethnic Russians in DPR and LPR.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> Can Russians buy gold with their Rubles? What is the price they will pay for an ounce of Gold?



Gold is the most valuable money in the world. Gold is finite. US dollar is infinite. Something infinite that can be printed from thin air has no value due to inflation.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

LeGenD said:


> *FYI*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian 'deniable' intervention in Ukraine: how and why Russia broke the rules on JSTOR
> 
> 
> ROY ALLISON, Russian 'deniable' intervention in Ukraine: how and why Russia broke the rules, International Affairs (Royal Institute of International Affairs 1944-), Vol. 90, No. 6 (November 2014), pp. 1255-1297
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jstor.org




Again, it denies what triggers the Russian intervention and involvement in Ukraine since 2014. It is a one-sided view, and people who take that proposition would never understand the facts that contributed to the outbreak of this conflict.


----------



## Viet

Menthol said:


> WW1 and WW2 history are more complicated than what the winner of the war told us.
> 
> The war loser is not as bad as you think and the winner is not as good as you think.
> 
> All are propaganda.


It’s not complicated at all. History repeats. Human as such is stupid. Dinosaur will return when humans kill each other off.

Putin is just a clone. He copies Germany, back then Germany went to war saying they protected German ethnics in Czech. No it was not a war. It was a special military operation.

German troops in Czech


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> It’s not complicated at all. History repeats. Human as such is stupid. Dinosaur will return when humans kill each other off.
> 
> Putin is just a clone. He copies Germany, back then Germany went to war saying they protected German ethnics in Czech. No it was not a war. It was a special military operation.
> 
> German troops in Czech
> 
> View attachment 832869
> 
> 
> View attachment 832870



Say the Viet who thinks he is a German 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513125335256408066

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513067621352148998

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513098372634263553

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Paul2

Viet said:


> The war is not going well.
> Putin replaced his general.
> 
> Alexander Dvornikov, commander of Russia’s Southern Military District, is the new theater commander for the military campaign in Ukraine.
> 
> Dvornikov is famous as the butcher of Sylvia.
> 
> More blood will be shed.
> 
> 
> View attachment 832767



Russian previous operation commander was another Syrian veteran. I doubt he will put in anything new besides a new name.

His predecessor has certainly realised the screwup early, but it was already too late


----------



## thetutle

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Gold is the most valuable money in the world. Gold is finite. US dollar is infinite. Something infinite that can be printed from thin air has no value due to inflation.


Yes, we all know if a Russian citizen came with 5,000 rubles and asked a shop to sell him an ounce of gold, they would laugh at him and chase his out of the shop. 

Who is their right mind would selll an ounce of gold for 5,000 Rubles. 

All that Russia is doing is stealing gold from their own banks.


----------



## oberschlesier

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Again, it denies what triggers the Russian intervention and involvement in Ukraine since 2014. It is a one-sided view, and people who take that proposition would never understand the facts that contributed to the outbreak of this conflict.


Failed( dumb?) Russian policy towards Ukraine. If the policy would be succesful, then there would be a Pro Russian president in Kiev, and the bulk of the population would be pro Russian. The opposite happened. So, the genius idea now, is not to change the policy, but to push harder, what will definatelly produce a different outcome


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513135291627970560


----------



## Wood

What are the chances of La Pen winning French elections? Seems like she is pro Putin. It will be a big body blow to European solidarity against Putin's invasion of Ukraine

Reactions: Like Like:
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## LeGenD

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Again, it denies what triggers the Russian intervention and involvement in Ukraine since 2014. It is a one-sided view, and people who take that proposition would never understand the facts that contributed to the outbreak of this conflict.


If Ukraine had attacked Russia then Russian motive to counter-attack and teach it a lesson would have made sense. But this is NOT the case in this conflict. Check following posts:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


frustrated at Irans geopolitical situation? are you kidding? Iran hasnt been sitting this pretty since Nader Shahs time.... just as we secured our geopolitical sphere of foreign influence, ended our dependence on oil revenue, made a durable economy able to withstand any sanction the west can...



defence.pk









__





Sergey Lavrov tells us Bucha massacre is staged


https://www.bbc.com/news/60981238 ONe of the best fact check I have seen on Bucha incident. @AlbastiLeGrand look that. I hope you find your information



defence.pk





I am pretty sure that Hitler had his reasons to invade so many countries. But karma happened.

Would you be a part of Rules-based Global Order or revert back to the Age of Empires in which any country can do whatever it wants to and get away with it?

Therefore.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513135291627970560



Manned jets is outdated. Drones and cruise missiles is the name of the game.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513080340964855810

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513078957016592384

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513062700787580928

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Wood said:


> What are the chances of La Pen winning French elections? Seems like she is pro Putin. It will be a big body blow to European solidarity against Putin's invasion of Ukraine



Macron messed up covid and economy. Good chance LePen will win. Only old people support Macon. Middle age and young people love LePen.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

LeGenD said:


> Would you be a part of Rules-based Global Order or revert back to the Age of Empires in which any country can do whatever it wants to and get away with it?
> 
> Therefore.




What Rules-based Global Order are you referring to? We're witnessing the gradual loss of the Holy Land (Palestine) when the so-called "Rules-based Global Order" arms, finances, and protects this brutal land grab and the suppression of the indigenous Palestinian people? 

Iraq, Afghanistan. Libya, Somalia, Syria, Lebanon, and Yemen were all invaded and the people in these countries were massacred. You know the culprits who did it. We're refugees all over the world because of the consistent Western interferences in our internal affairs, and you want to preach me "Rules-based Global Order"? It is really shocking you admire this evil system. 

Let me tell you something bro: The so-called "Rules-based Global Order" is the Yajuj-wa-Majuj World Order. It is an evil system which is designed to subjugate us. Alhamdullillah, they met their challenge from others. Let us hope and pray they will eliminate each other by deploying nukes against each other.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513115975847223296


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512965880740827138

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513150434705354753


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513162825501450242


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russia officially annexes Ukraine's second largest port city Mariupol.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513101253147914241

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## sammuel

Viet said:


> It’s not complicated at all. History repeats. Human as such is stupid. Dinosaur will return when humans kill each other off.
> 
> Putin is just a clone. He copies Germany, back then Germany went to war saying they protected German ethnics in Czech. No it was not a war. It was a special military operation.
> 
> German troops in Czech
> 
> View attachment 832869
> 
> 
> View attachment 832870




Good example. And lets not forget that the soviets did the same in Czechoslovakia in 1968.

Not to mention that they invaded Poland in 1939 , after they agreed to divide Poland between them and Germany.

What we see today is the same principle , a strong nation invades a weaker nation. They can make all sort of excuses , but the only reason is that they think they can get away with it.

It is not surprising that the pope made the same observation :

"From the east of Europe, from the land of the sunrise, the dark shadows of war have now spread. We had thought that invasions of other countries, savage street fighting and atomic threats were grim memories of a distant past,"

*"Once again, some potentate, sadly caught up in anachronistic claims of nationalist interests, is provoking and fomenting conflicts, whereas ordinary people sense the need to build a future that, will either be shared, or not be at all,"

~*


​

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513180348447924238

Poor kid......he doesn't even realize the US is light years ahead of Russia economically.

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## DF41

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Gold is the most valuable money in the world. Gold is finite. US dollar is infinite. Something infinite that can be printed from thin air has no value due to inflation.



Just wait for USA to come up with their $1 trillion coin to back up their USD

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## Clutch

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512874810803642376
> pro putin guys here



The Ukrainian are known for painting V and Z and commiting crimes. Even a Five year old knows how to write Z. 

I'm not pro Putin. I'm just pro Whitie killing Whitie so they don't have any time to kill Brownie.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Type59

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513067621352148998
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513098372634263553


Unverified news of convoy being destroyed.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Viet

Paul2 said:


> Russian previous operation commander was another Syrian veteran. I doubt he will put in anything new besides a new name.
> 
> His predecessor has certainly realised the screwup early, but it was already too late


I am afraid Dvornikov will increase the terror attacks on population. He will do everything to break Ukraine resistance.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> I am afraid Dvornikov will increase the terror attacks on population.



Increase in use of Krasnopol laser guided artillery, Sandstorm GLONASS guided MRLS, Iskander K and Kalibr and Kh-101 land, sea, air launched cruise missiles in response to MANPADS.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512306988650172418





Ukraine conflict: Russian forces employ guided rockets


Evidence is emerging from the conflict in Ukraine appearing to show that Russian forces are utilizing guided rockets – the 9M544 and 9M549 – with video and photographs...



www.janes.com

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## jamal18

thetutle said:


> Can Russians buy gold with their Rubles? What is the price they will pay for an ounce of Gold?


I believe that recently the Russians pegged it at 5,000 roubles per gram.

It might be different now. Whatever the current situation, there is a determined atempt to fix the rouble to gold. I am told that Russia is the world's largest holder of gold, and China isn't too far behind.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The reasons Hitler went to war and the reasons that Russians went to war were completely different. People who want to hide the concerns of Russia and Russian people use that in order to hide their legitimate security and humanitarian concerns. Has President Biden made it very clear that Ukraine wouldn't be permitted to enter NATO - and has the US State Department stopped interfering in internal Ukrainian matters, this conflict would've been avoided.
> 
> Instead, Western powers were arming Ukraine, were encouraging the Ukrainian nationalists and Neo Nazis to double their anti-Russian efforts, and were consistently sanctioning Russia for its support to ethnic Russians in DPR and LPR.



It's so strange that what has been stated by academics and diplomats clearly, that this is due to the eastern expansion of Nato, is totally missing from the mainstream media.

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## bobo6661

Type59 said:


> Unverified news of convoy being destroyed.


Like most of pro russian posts here 🤷‍♂️ Like mariupol has fallen a month ago and all heli and planes where destroyed if you would belive russian propaganda 1 month ago to ...



Clutch said:


> The Ukrainian are known for painting V and Z and commiting crimes. Even a Five year old knows how to write Z.
> 
> I'm not pro Putin. I'm just pro Whitie killing Whitie so they don't have any time to kill Brownie.


Bla bla im not pro russian but ... cut the crap your one of most pro russian guys here 🤣






yee they painted a V for shure

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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Increase in use of Krasnopol laser guided artillery, Sandstorm GLONASS guided MRLS, Iskander K and Kalibr and Kh-101 land, sea, air launched cruise missiles in response to MANPADS.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512306988650172418
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine conflict: Russian forces employ guided rockets
> 
> 
> Evidence is emerging from the conflict in Ukraine appearing to show that Russian forces are utilizing guided rockets – the 9M544 and 9M549 – with video and photographs...
> 
> 
> 
> www.janes.com



I think so that will happen. Putin withdrew 40,000 men from the Kiev war zone, rearming and throwing those poor souls into the eastern sector.
We will see in the next days and weeks WW I scenario with mass of deaths on both sides.

Also, Putin will probably use the ugly joker: the Russian ethnics in the West. He will misuse them as fifth column. To destabilize the west he will do everything. Those fifth columns will stage protests and chaos in western major cities.


----------



## jamal18

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513115975847223296


The Russians have clearly stated that the next fight is in the Donbass. It is the final battle in the east and the Russians want it to end with the total crushing of the encircled Ukrainian forces in the area.

President Macrom has stated words to the effect of 'expect bad news from donbass in the next few weeks.'

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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Gold is the most valuable money in the world. Gold is finite. US dollar is infinite. Something infinite that can be printed from thin air has no value due to inflation.


Gold is ok however by large it’s something for dumb people who think they are rich. Gold, oil, gas and other minerals will keep Russians lazy, poor and underdeveloped forever.

The entire gold reserves of Russia is worth 140 billion USD. Apple market cap is 2.4 trillion USD. What do you want gold or apple stocks?

About inflation, stocks are immune against inflation and even profit from money printing.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Gold is ok however by large it’s something for dumb people who think they are rich. Gold, oil, gas and other minerals will keep Russians lazy, poor and underdeveloped forever.
> 
> The entire gold reserves of Russia is worth 140 billion USD. Apple market cap is 2.4 trillion USD. What do you want gold or apple stocks?
> 
> About inflation, stocks are immune against inflation and even profit from money printing.



US dollar is infinite. Something that is infinite has no value due to inflation. Gold is finite. Only gold has value.

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## Type59

bobo6661 said:


> Like most of pro russian posts here 🤷‍♂️ Like mariupol has fallen a month ago and all heli and planes where destroyed if you would belive russian propaganda 1 month ago to ...
> 
> 
> Bla bla im not pro russian but ... cut the crap your one of most pro russian guys here 🤣
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yee they painted a V for shure



Russian war planners failed to accurate assess situation around northern front. Plan A has failed, now plan B. In regards to convoy being destroyed, them pics are of convoy on move, not pics of being destroyed.


----------



## jamal18

A detailed analysis of where we are now. The war, and the economic situation.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513161278180704259


----------



## sammuel

nangyale said:


> Vietnam and Afghanistan were able to defeat far bigger militaries with far less.




Different terrain , different sort of fighting ( mainly guerilla fighting ) , and different story.

Conquering a country is one thing but holding it is another , Afghans did not push the Russians out , they bled them for 10 years till it was not worth their while.

Vietnam War lasted 25 years, American direct involvement something like 12 years.

Russians casualties in 10 years of fighting in Afghanistan is beginning to come close to what they lost in a month of fighting in Ukraine.

How much casualties are the Russians willing to take ? - it all depends on Putin's ego , and Judging by the size of his ego , one can presume quite a lot . . .

As it stands now , Russians may take some chunks of Ukraine . Yet Ukraine is very far from falling into Russians hands , as many thought would happen.

Russians where wrong in assuming this would be easy , they even threaten to punished anyone in Russia calling it "War " and not " Operation "

Now even they call it for what it is : War.

And a bloody one , an avoidable one , and a pointless one , if I may add.


Do not call Ukraine invasion a ‘war’, Russia tells media, schools​









Do not call Ukraine invasion a ‘war’, Russia tells media, schools


Instead, ‘special military operation’ should be used to describe Moscow’s assault on Ukraine, according to officials.




www.aljazeera.com






nope sorry , it is :












~


----------



## Wood




----------



## bobo6661

sammuel said:


> Vietnam War lasted 25 years, American direct involvement something like 12 years.


And they forgetting russia is fighting in their backyard they don't need to transfer troops equipment thru the sea and wait weeks

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513244086865641472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513244303786709004

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513216541776568326

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513219449423384581

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513236728252928011

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513233089413189632


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513219582328246279

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513248675048296450

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513252253318057985

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513247636391809025

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513246590697320449

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513246662894002189

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513256243363782656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513183840130547724

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513160221694504962

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513260799061544961
Russian invaders using cluster MRLS


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513249722949062661

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513254457634480129


----------



## jamal18

Michael Hudson, economist.

'For Europe, the alternative is that the dollar-cost of its foreign debt taken on to finance its widening trade deficit with the United States for oil, arms and food will explode....For the United States, this is Dollar Hegemony on steroids – at least vis-à-vis Europe. The continent would become a somewhat larger version of Puerto Rico.'





__





The Dollar Devours the Euro | Michael Hudson







michael-hudson.com





Excellent article on the implications of the new cold war.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513252891737444357


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513247638333935623

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513247687428263938


----------



## Paul2

Viet said:


> I am afraid Dvornikov will increase the terror attacks on population. He will do everything to break Ukraine resistance.


With what? Russia has already expended 1/3 to 1/4 of its titanic ammo stocks.

Rocket artillery ammo is especially not cheap, and is very bulky.

1 grad reload = 3 tons, or 2 military trucks because they are so bulky.

1 300mm reload = 4 tons, or 2 heavy transports.

1 Tochka = 1 special missile transporter

This is why they only launch those from their own territory.

Russian stock of 5500 cruise missiles must be 1/3 expended, which is evident by them using older, and rarer missiles. They recently used an air launched anti-ship missile against a land target, which is really telling.

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## The SC

The war in Ukraine erupts several crises across the world:
- Spain: Thousands of farmers went bankrupt due to high fuel prices and protests with thousands of tractors in Spanish cities.
- Germany: The biggest rise in prices in 40 years, which made several materials unavailable in the market, such as sunflower oil and farina.
- Peru: High fuel prices triggered riots, which necessitated the imposition of a curfew in the country.
- Sri Lanka: the worst economic crisis in 70 years and a humanitarian crisis affecting the country.
- Lebanon: The government announces the bankruptcy of the state and the central bank.

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## Type59

Paul2 said:


> With what? Russia has already expended 1/3 to 1/4 of its titanic ammo stocks.
> 
> Rocket artillery ammo is especially not cheap, and is very bulky.
> 
> 1 grad reload = 3 tons, or 1 heavy military truck.
> 
> 1 300mm reload = 4 tons, or 2 heavy transports.
> 
> 1 Tochka = 1 special missile transporter
> 
> This is why they only launch those from their own territory.
> 
> Russian stock of 5500 cruise missiles must be 1/3 expended, which is evident by them using older, and rarer missiles. They recently used an air launched anti-ship missile against a land target, which is really telling.



Unlike Ukrainian industry, the Russian defence firms are still working. Unless you think sanctions have crippled Russian ability to make 152mm shells?

Then they can use Belrussian ammo, central Asian nations like Kazakhstan can provide from their stocks, China could transfer the huge number of air to ground weapons they got when they purchased SU 27, SU 30 and SU 35 and let's not forget North Korea.

Russian defence industries will be able to churn out low tech weapon systems without any problems. Higher end might be an issue.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513194915114545156

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513285241858834449

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513206063079862273


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

monitor said:


> Conception and birth of the symbol Z (evil)
> View attachment 833079



Don't forget the other kids V and O for example.


----------



## Vergennes

Multiple russian assaults were thwarted in eastern ukraine today



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513280577545416706



DNR troops in mariupol... just a bunch of cannon fodder



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513265586918338564


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

🇷🇺🇺🇦Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

▫️The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine.

💥During the night, high-precision sea-based missiles destroyed the headquarters and base of Dnepr nationalist battalion in Zvonetskoe, Dnepropetrovsk Region, where foreign mercenaries had recently arrived.

💥High-precision air-based missiles near Starobogdanovka in Nikolaev Region and at Chuhuev military airfield destroyed launchers of the Ukrainian S-300 anti-aircraft missile systems discovered by reconnaissance.

💥Russian air defence means shot down 8 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles in the air near Olkhovatovka, Novaya Astrakhan, Avdeevka, Shakhterskoe, Kurakhovo, Novoselovka Vtoraya and Vyseloye.

✈️💥Operational-tactical aviation hit 86 military assets of Ukraine. Among them: 2 command posts, 2 ammunition depots, 3 fuel depots, 3 multiple launch rocket systems, and 49 strong points and areas of Ukrainian military equipment concentration.

📊In total, 127 aircfaft and 98 helicopters, 234 anti-aircraft missile systems(S-300, Buk-M1, Osa AKM), 436 unmanned aerial vehicles, 2,052 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 232 multiple launch rocket systems, 894 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,975 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing 
@mod_russia_en

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513202245243912208


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513202245243912208



I lot of these are recent immigrants from Russia.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513159755572862978

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513159755572862978


----------



## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> What Rules-based Global Order are you referring to? We're witnessing the gradual loss of the Holy Land (Palestine) when the so-called "Rules-based Global Order" arms, finances, and protects this brutal land grab and the suppression of the indigenous Palestinian people?
> 
> Iraq, Afghanistan. Libya, Somalia, Syria, Lebanon, and Yemen were all invaded and the people in these countries were massacred. You know the culprits who did it. We're refugees all over the world because of the consistent Western interferences in our internal affairs, and you want to preach me "Rules-based Global Order"? It is really shocking you admire this evil system.
> 
> Let me tell you something bro: The so-called "Rules-based Global Order" is the Yajuj-wa-Majuj World Order. It is an evil system which is designed to subjugate us. Alhamdullillah, they met their challenge from others. Let us hope and pray they will eliminate each other by deploying nukes against each other.


So because of these injustices did you support the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan as well?



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513115975847223296


Good, it looks like we see them coming


----------



## Paul2

Type59 said:


> Unlike Ukrainian industry, the Russian defence firms are still working. Unless you think sanctions have crippled Russian ability to make 152mm shells?
> 
> Then they can use Belrussian ammo, central Asian nations like Kazakhstan can provide from their stocks, China could transfer the huge number of air to ground weapons they got when they purchased SU 27, SU 30 and SU 35 and let's not forget North Korea.
> 
> Russian defence industries will be able to churn out low tech weapon systems without any problems. Higher end might be an issue.



No doubt that, Russian stocks of low-tech ammo are enough to fight WW2 few times over, but they need to get them to the frontlines.

Currently Russian logistics is busy hauling vehicles, and heavier munitions, which can be launched from further away. That's logical.

Eventually, they will start going more towards tube artillery as their FOBs start running dry, but for tube arty the weapon/munition ratio is more important. Tube arty also needs way more trained artillery officers, whom they already lost a lot in Kiyv to counterbattery, and bombing

This is why we are seeing humongous amounts of 152mm SPGs being delivered from Russian reserves to the East. Russia has mostly abandoned 122mm calibre, unlike Ukraine.

The question is, whether they will make it in time. First Russian armour regiments are already trying to advance without long range support.

152mm range advantage will not matter much if they have to get up close to not to hit their own, or fire on entrenched positions.

155/152 advantage is mostly relevant in in offensive, when your armour can overrun enemy lines after the barrage, without letting enemy return long range fire, or in artillery duels with no own attacking forces close to the enemy.


----------



## The SC

Russian Defense announces the destruction of the headquarters of eastern Ukraine


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513169418133643272


----------



## thetutle

jamal18 said:


> I believe that recently the Russians pegged it at 5,000 roubles per gram.
> 
> It might be different now. Whatever the current situation, there is a determined atempt to fix the rouble to gold. I am told that Russia is the world's largest holder of gold, and China isn't too far behind.
> 
> 
> 
> It's so strange that what has been stated by academics and diplomats clearly, that this is due to the eastern expansion of Nato, is totally missing from the mainstream media.


I know, thats why I am asking if Russian citizens can buy gold at 5,000 ruble per gram. 

If they can, I am going to russia to buy gold. Free money. 

I can buy at least 200 rubles for every US dollar. With this gold price im getting gold at a major discount, like 50%+ off the gold spot price. Its basically free money 

So my guess is Russia doe not allow its citizens to buy gold at this price. This is only the price Russia pays you when it confiscates your gold.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Paul2 said:


> No doubt that, Russian stocks of low-tech ammo are enough to fight WW2 few times over, but they need to get them to the frontlines.
> 
> Currently Russian logistics is busy hauling vehicles, and heavier munitions, which can be launched from further away. That's logical.
> 
> Eventually, they will start going more towards tube artillery as their FOBs start running dry, but for tube arty the weapon/munition ratio is more important. Tube arty also needs way more trained artillery officers, whom they already lost a lot in Kiyv to counterbattery, and bombing
> 
> This is why we are seeing humongous amounts of 152mm SPGs being delivered from Russian reserves to the East. Russia has mostly abandoned 122mm calibre, unlike Ukraine.
> 
> The question is, whether they will make it in time. First Russian armour regiments are already trying to advance without long range support.
> 
> 152mm range advantage will not matter if their first units already sit few hundred meters away from the enemy, and they will risk hitting their own, and/or getting hit by close range Ukrainian arty which was already entrenched there if they want to get close.



Russia mainly uses precision guided artillery these days. Cuts down on ammo usage. Easier on logistics.

Check out my thread. https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russ...s-range-20-km-and-120-km-respectively.739671/

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## The SC

Russia has reused the FAB-3000 bombs..


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> Russia has reused the FAB-3000 bombs..
> 
> View attachment 833095
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 833096



Don't retire Tu-22M3. Like. Ever.


----------



## thetutle

jamal18 said:


> Michael Hudson, economist.
> 
> 'For Europe, the alternative is that the dollar-cost of its foreign debt taken on to finance its widening trade deficit with the United States for oil, arms and food will explode....For the United States, this is Dollar Hegemony on steroids – at least vis-à-vis Europe. The continent would become a somewhat larger version of Puerto Rico.'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Dollar Devours the Euro | Michael Hudson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> michael-hudson.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent article on the implications of the new cold war.


europe doest have to buy US oil food or weapons. it can grow its own food and make its own weapons. and buy oil from the Middle East. Or stop oil and build more nuclear power plants.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513251121485209601


----------



## sammuel

The SC said:


> The war in Ukraine erupts several crises across the world:
> - Spain: Thousands of farmers went bankrupt due to high fuel prices and protests with thousands of tractors in Spanish cities.
> - Germany: The biggest rise in prices in 40 years, which made several materials unavailable in the market, such as sunflower oil and farina.
> - Peru: High fuel prices triggered riots, which necessitated the imposition of a curfew in the country.
> - Sri Lanka: the worst economic crisis in 70 years and a humanitarian crisis affecting the country.
> - Lebanon: The government announces the bankruptcy of the state and the central bank.
> 
> View attachment 833082
> 
> 
> View attachment 833083



Worst to suffer are always the poor. Those whose life main concern is not the price they pay to feel their cars , but with the price of bread.









Rising food prices shake North Africa as Ukraine war rages


Households across North Africa are rushing to stock up on flour, semolina and other staples as food prices rise following Russia's invasion of Ukraine, both key wheat exporters to the region.




www.france24.com













Russia’s war is going to make SA bread very expensive – but only three months from now | Businessinsider


Ukraine and Russia control over a quarter of the world's wheat exports and South Africa is a net importer.




www.businessinsider.co.za













After unga, bread prices set to rise


Millers say the rising price is due to expensive replacement of wheat stocks at a time Ukraine and Russia are at war.




nation.africa

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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> With what? Russia has already expended 1/3 to 1/4 of its titanic ammo stocks.
> 
> Rocket artillery ammo is especially not cheap, and is very bulky.
> 
> 1 grad reload = 3 tons, or 2 military trucks because they are so bulky.
> 
> 1 300mm reload = 4 tons, or 2 heavy transports.
> 
> 1 Tochka = 1 special missile transporter
> 
> This is why they only launch those from their own territory.
> 
> Russian stock of 5500 cruise missiles must be 1/3 expended, which is evident by them using older, and rarer missiles. They recently used an air launched anti-ship missile against a land target, which is really telling.




I doubt Russia has 5,500 cruise missiles. We knew Russia had already expended 50% of their air launched cruise missiles at 1,200 total missiles launched. At that point they probably had 200-400 ALCMs left. 

I’ve seen estimates of Russia having a stockpile of 1,000 Kalibrs. 

Maybe 500 Iskander K cruise missiles and 1,000-1,500 Iskander-M ballistic missiles.

I think 3,000-4,000 missiles. They’ve expended a lot of their cruise missiles. 

The US has a stockpile of around 10,000 cruise missiles.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Menthol

Viet said:


> It’s not complicated at all. History repeats. Human as such is stupid. Dinosaur will return when humans kill each other off.
> 
> Putin is just a clone. He copies Germany, back then Germany went to war saying they protected German ethnics in Czech. No it was not a war. It was a special military operation.
> 
> German troops in Czech
> 
> View attachment 832869
> 
> 
> View attachment 832870



Yeah, human nature.

History will repeat again.

Putin is the new Hitler, and today's Anglo-Saxon is the same Anglo-Saxon during WW1 and WW2.

Stupid people.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Zalensky is desperately trying to evacuate some very important people out of Azovstal Steelworks where the remaining resistance there trapped. 

They lost 5 helicopters and their pilots in the process. 

Who are these people?


----------



## That Guy

nangyale said:


> There is nothing racist about the term Brown sahib, actually it's the perfect metaphor for describing people like yourself.
> 
> Again your mental gymnastics about neutrality or that you don't care means nothing. You are clearly on the side of the Ukrop nazis as is dictated by your western media masters.
> 
> Finally the UAF are no underdogs in this fight, they are being provided an unlimited supply of modern weapons by the United West. Vietnam and Afghanistan were able to defeat far bigger militaries with far less.


@LeGenD

This guy is pretty much harassing me at this point, please deal with him.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## CAPRICORN-88

Now it seems Ukraine send a dry cargo ship to black sea which was fired upon after they refused to halt and was board and now detained by the Russian Navy.

They are trying very hard to evacuate some very important people there and we will know in a matter of days or weeks ago. 

Unlike the residential districts, where the Russian were restrained, it seems they have moved heavy artilleries and rockets to Azovstal Steelwork. There is no civilians there. 

Rumors from the Russian bloggers claimed that there are hundreds of foreign mercenaries there fighting along side the AZOV neo-nazi battalion. 

Of course, none of all these can be proven. So far they proved to be quite or partially true. So we wait and see which side are telling the truth.

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## CAPRICORN-88

https://www.reuters.com/business/en...utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter&s=08


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> I doubt Russia has 5,500 cruise missiles. We knew Russia had already expended 50% of their air launched cruise missiles at 1,200 total missiles launched. At that point they probably had 200-400 ALCMs left.
> 
> I’ve seen estimates of Russia having a stockpile of 1,000 Kalibrs.
> 
> Maybe 500 Iskander K cruise missiles and 1,000-1,500 Iskander-M ballistic missiles.
> 
> I think 3,000-4,000 missiles. They’ve expended a lot of their cruise missiles.
> 
> The US has a stockpile of around 10,000 cruise missiles.



Russia can make thousands of cruise missiles a year.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia can make thousands of cruise missiles a year.




Not even the US can produce thousands a year. 

And I highly doubt Russia can produce these missiles easily with Western sanctions. It’ll likely be much harder.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> Not even the US can produce thousands a year.
> 
> And I highly doubt Russia can produce these missiles easily with Western sanctions. It’ll likely be much harder.



With war economy it can. All the parts are made in Russia too. Since 2014 all the western components were replaced with Russian components, such as the Thales HUD used in Su-30SM.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1194734084532125701


----------



## Type59

Paul2 said:


> No doubt that, Russian stocks of low-tech ammo are enough to fight WW2 few times over, but they need to get them to the frontlines.
> 
> Currently Russian logistics is busy hauling vehicles, and heavier munitions, which can be launched from further away. That's logical.
> 
> Eventually, they will start going more towards tube artillery as their FOBs start running dry, but for tube arty the weapon/munition ratio is more important. Tube arty also needs way more trained artillery officers, whom they already lost a lot in Kiyv to counterbattery, and bombing
> 
> This is why we are seeing humongous amounts of 152mm SPGs being delivered from Russian reserves to the East. Russia has mostly abandoned 122mm calibre, unlike Ukraine.
> 
> The question is, whether they will make it in time. First Russian armour regiments are already trying to advance without long range support.
> 
> 152mm range advantage will not matter much if they have to get up close to not to hit their own, or fire on entrenched positions.
> 
> 155/152 advantage is mostly relevant in in offensive, when your armour can overrun enemy lines after the barrage, without letting enemy return long range fire, or in artillery duels with no own attacking forces close to the enemy.


I see your point. Naturally we don't have a clear picture of what is going on logistically. The northern campaign was a debacle, but fortunately for Russians they have time to make changes. 

Ukrainians especially in Donbass area seem to be struggling in terms of resupply. I wonder how much shells they have.


----------



## nangyale

That Guy said:


> @LeGenD
> 
> This guy is pretty much harassing me at this point, please deal with him.


What is this your "help me mama he is hurting me" cry.

Look Mr, if you can't handle it don't reply to me. 

As for this SMO is concerned the Russians are going to win it no doubt. One way or the Ukraine in its previous borders seized to exist in 2014, since then its just slice and dice, till the blues and yellows come to their senses. 

Think about Ukraine as the Yugoslavia of the north. After each iteration it becomes a bit smaller.


----------



## FuturePAF

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Now it seems Ukraine send a dry cargo ship to black sea which was fired upon after they refused to halt and was board and now detained by the Russian Navy.
> 
> They are trying very hard to evacuate some very important people there and we will know in a matter of days or weeks ago.
> 
> Unlike the residential districts, where the Russian were restrained, it seems they have moved heavy artilleries and rockets to Azovstal Steelwork. There is no civilians there.
> 
> Rumors from the Russian bloggers claimed that there are hundreds of foreign mercenaries there fighting along side the AZOV neo-nazi battalion.
> 
> Of course, none of all these can be proven. So far they proved to be quite or partially true. So we wait and see which side are telling the truth.


Near Mariupol or closer to Odessa?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513285241858834449



This is one of the most hilarious videos I've ever watched 



FuturePAF said:


> Near Mariupol or closer to Odessa?



It was heading to Mariupol to deliver supplies / arms / ammo for defenders.


----------



## nangyale

Type59 said:


> I see your point. Naturally we don't have a clear picture of what is going on logistically. The northern campaign was a debacle, but fortunately for Russians they have time to make changes.
> 
> Ukrainians especially in Donbass area seem to be struggling in terms of resupply. I wonder how much shells they have.


More important is their fuel situation. 
If they cannot fire up their tanks and trucks, then they are only sitting ducks for the Russian artillery. 

This is not ww1 where you can just sit tight and keep on fighting from your bunker. Modern conflicts are maneuver warfare.

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## Tshering22

This madness has to stop. The constant supply of arms by UK to the Ukrainian Zelensky forces is going to make this war bloodier. Basically, NATO is fighting Russia to the last Ukrainian. Instead of leaving some neutral ground for negotiations, they are intimidating everyone to pick a side instead. 

There is so much pressure on developing countries to "pick a side" and those who don't, are being threatened to either join "the enemy". I truly wonder if the people of United States and Britain have thought the consequences of this madness for themselves and their country.

Even European countries like France, Netherlands, Germany, Spain, etc., have begun to feel the pinch and are slowly moving away from their pro-war stance. Seriously feel sad about the Ukrainian civilians who are getting hammered from both sides for the Biden's and Boris Johnson's egos.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513326815892447232


Tshering22 said:


> This madness has to stop. The constant supply of arms by UK to the Ukrainian Zelensky forces is going to make this war bloodier. Basically, NATO is fighting Russia to the last Ukrainian. Instead of leaving some neutral ground for negotiations, they are intimidating everyone to pick a side instead.
> 
> There is so much pressure on developing countries to "pick a side" and those who don't, are being threatened to either join "the enemy". I truly wonder if the people of United States and Britain have thought the consequences of this madness for themselves and their country.
> 
> Even European countries like France, Netherlands, Germany, Spain, etc., have begun to feel the pinch and are slowly moving away from their pro-war stance. Seriously feel sad about the Ukrainian civilians who are getting hammered from both sides for the Biden's and Boris Johnson's egos.



British people are seriously inbred and suffer from mental illness. I feel bad for them. This war is going to destroy Britain and the British people will suffer.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## FuturePAF

Type59 said:


> Unlike Ukrainian industry, the Russian defence firms are still working. Unless you think sanctions have crippled Russian ability to make 152mm shells?
> 
> Then they can use Belrussian ammo, central Asian nations like Kazakhstan can provide from their stocks, China could transfer the huge number of air to ground weapons they got when they purchased SU 27, SU 30 and SU 35 and let's not forget North Korea.
> 
> Russian defence industries will be able to churn out low tech weapon systems without any problems. Higher end might be an issue.


That’s so true, other then China which doesn’t want to seem supply arms, NK and the CIS nations could be obliged by Russia to “sell” their munitions in exchange for Russian commodities or Rubles.

Btw, If Russia takes the entire Black sea coast including Odessa, and a significant chunk of eastern Ukraine, could Russia declare victory and then ask to end the conflict?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

FuturePAF said:


> That’s so true, other then China which doesn’t want to seem supply arms, NK and the CIS nations could be obliged by Russia to “sell” their munitions in exchange for Russian commodities or Rubles.



Russia has plenty enough arms. They don't need Chinese arms. China uses different caliber bullets and artillery anyway so logistically it wouldn't make sense.

However, China could supply Russia with additional raw materials should they be needed.



FuturePAF said:


> Btw, If Russia takes the entire Black sea coast including Odessa, and a significant chunk of eastern Ukraine, could Russia declare victory and then ask to end the conflict?



Only under the condition Ukraine will never join NATO. That way the next time when Russia invades again Russia will again take more land.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513323940352954368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513318229585719300


----------



## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> I doubt Russia has 5,500 cruise missiles. We knew Russia had already expended 50% of their air launched cruise missiles at 1,200 total missiles launched. At that point they probably had 200-400 ALCMs left.
> 
> I’ve seen estimates of Russia having a stockpile of 1,000 Kalibrs.
> 
> Maybe 500 Iskander K cruise missiles and 1,000-1,500 Iskander-M ballistic missiles.
> 
> I think 3,000-4,000 missiles. They’ve expended a lot of their cruise missiles.
> 
> The US has a stockpile of around 10,000 cruise missiles.



Add to that anti-ship missiles used against land targets, and such. It also includes ridiculously old stuff like Luna-M, and R17, which are so inaccurate, that they are near useless in modern warfare.

Russia is a huge country, and trying to gather weapon stocks from places near Arctic, or in the middle of Siberia is outright impossible under their current manpower shortage.

They can only ship heavy weapons by rail under current conditions.


----------



## mazeto

Boris Johnson has put the maximum sanctions on Russia, is busy campaigning throughout the world to isolate Russia, is openly declaring transfer of gamechanging weapons to Ukraine.. and he takes a stroll in Kiev. 
Any other nation would have taken care of him there. The Russians are really incompetent.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## That Guy

nangyale said:


> What is this your "help me mama he is hurting me" cry.
> 
> Look Mr, if you can't handle it don't reply to me.
> 
> As for this SMO is concerned the Russians are going to win it no doubt. One way or the Ukraine in its previous borders seized to exist in 2014, since then its just slice and dice, till the blues and yellows come to their senses.
> 
> Think about Ukraine as the Yugoslavia of the north. After each iteration it becomes a bit smaller.


Lol, you started replying to me.

The only reason why I'm calling a mod in is because the last time I defended myself, the other guy got me in trouble.

I'd rather keep my record clean and not get banned.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

mazeto said:


> Boris Johnson has put the maximum sanctions on Russia, is busy campaigning throughout the world to isolate Russia, is openly declaring transfer of gamechanging weapons to Ukraine.. and he takes a stroll in Kiev.
> Any other nation would have taken care of him there. The Russians are really incompetent.



Boris Johnson is a crazy hooligan who loves a good fight in the street. No one takes him seriously. Don't forget, Russia can arm Argentina with combat drones to take Falklands. If I were Boris Johnson I best not mess with Russia.









Sukhoi S-70 Okhotnik-B - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Wood

Evil be thy name 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513331072007909379


----------



## Paul2

mazeto said:


> Boris Johnson has put the maximum sanctions on Russia, is busy campaigning throughout the world to isolate Russia, is openly declaring transfer of gamechanging weapons to Ukraine.. and he takes a stroll in Kiev.
> Any other nation would have taken care of him there. The Russians are really incompetent.


You can understand him. He has partygate on one side, and Indians shapening knives on the other. He needs something quite extraordinary to rescue his premiership.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513326222008365057

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## DF41

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> What Rules-based Global Order are you referring to? We're witnessing the gradual loss of the Holy Land (Palestine) when the so-called "Rules-based Global Order" arms, finances, and protects this brutal land grab and the suppression of the indigenous Palestinian people?
> 
> Iraq, Afghanistan. Libya, Somalia, Syria, Lebanon, and Yemen were all invaded and the people in these countries were massacred. You know the culprits who did it. We're refugees all over the world because of the consistent Western interferences in our internal affairs, and you want to preach me "Rules-based Global Order"? It is really shocking you admire this evil system.
> 
> Let me tell you something bro: The so-called "Rules-based Global Order" is the Yajuj-wa-Majuj World Order. It is an evil system which is designed to subjugate us. Alhamdullillah, they met their challenge from others. Let us hope and pray they will eliminate each other by deploying nukes against each other.

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## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> Not even the US can produce thousands a year.
> 
> And I highly doubt Russia can produce these missiles easily with Western sanctions. It’ll likely be much harder.


Well we dont know for sure. The actual stock number is likely to be classified.

However, dont think it is far fetched for Russia to possess such a large quantity of CM, ALCM and BM. Their doctrine is heavily influenced by it and their military industry has the means to meet those figures.

Just look at how long it takes to make a single Abrams MBT compared to a single T90A


----------



## sammuel

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513326222008365057




* Finland parliament held a short moment of silence in the memory of the victims of Russian invasion.*















The president of Ukraine spoke to MPs: You do not want to witness it again







www.eduskunta.fi












~


----------



## Viet

Paul2 said:


> With what? Russia has already expended 1/3 to 1/4 of its titanic ammo stocks.
> 
> Rocket artillery ammo is especially not cheap, and is very bulky.
> 
> 1 grad reload = 3 tons, or 2 military trucks because they are so bulky.
> 
> 1 300mm reload = 4 tons, or 2 heavy transports.
> 
> 1 Tochka = 1 special missile transporter
> 
> This is why they only launch those from their own territory.
> 
> Russian stock of 5500 cruise missiles must be 1/3 expended, which is evident by them using older, and rarer missiles. They recently used an air launched anti-ship missile against a land target, which is really telling.


Russia military complex is big. Russians are hardcore siberians, they will eat less to make more missiles.

The Donbas battle is coming. Russia 4th tank division on the way to Easter offensive. Ukraine army will meet them.


----------



## sammuel

SalarHaqq said:


> A well documented, must-read piece by Scott Ritter.




More than 300 civilians where found dead in Bucha , with bullets holes in their bodies. This is the undenied fact.

So how do you suppose this happened ?

What ever the cause , if it was not for Russia invasion , those people would still be alive today.










Bucha massacre - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





~


----------



## Clutch

bobo6661 said:


> Like most of pro russian posts here 🤷‍♂️ Like mariupol has fallen a month ago and all heli and planes where destroyed if you would belive russian propaganda 1 month ago to ...
> 
> 
> Bla bla im not pro russian but ... cut the crap your one of most pro russian guys here 🤣
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yee they painted a V for shure



Me pro-Russian?... Lol. Not at all.

I hope Russia ends losing this war... But before doing so pulls all of Europe down with it. Revenge for the European attacks on the Middle east and North Africa.... And revenge for Russia's invasion of Afghanistan and Syria. 

Now you understand?

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## Clutch

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Zalensky is desperately trying to evacuate some very important people out of Azovstal Steelworks where the remaining resistance there trapped.
> 
> They lost 5 helicopters and their pilots in the process.
> 
> Who are these people?



Azov Battalion Nazis. The blood of Ukraine.

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## Paul2

Viet said:


> Russia military complex is big. Russians are hardcore siberians, they will eat less to make more missiles.
> 
> The Donbas battle is coming. Russia 4th tank division on the way to Easter offensive. Ukraine army will meet them.



They lost an *entire tank army*, what 1 already damaged tank division will do? Even if they are supposed to be the best. There are already territorials, and their INLAWs behind every tree near Izyum gap.

Of course it will be a bloody fight, because the new opcom needs to show Putin action on his first day on the job, but it cannot be bigger than the initial thrust, which failed.


----------



## Viet

SalarHaqq said:


> Rumours keep swirling of Western military advisers trapped in Mariupol​
> *There have been unconfirmed rumors on social media that US Army Major General Cloutier has been captured by the Russian forces in Mariupol.*
> 
> Published: April 6, 2022, 12:22 pm
> 
> _Intel Slava Z_, a Telegram channel, reported earlier that NATO officers from Germany, France, the UK and Sweden were trapped with Azov fighters in Mariupol.
> 
> Some frantic efforts to rescue these trapped individuals have been recorded. Western powers would not like to see NATO commanders or mercenaries eventually paraded with Azov fighters for obvious historical purposes. The optics of fighting for Nazis is not a popular one.
> 
> There are even rumors of a captured US general but they could not be confirmed. The general in question is to the Ukrainian military what Victoria Nuland is to Ukrainian politicians – an instrumental figure.
> 
> US Army Major General Cloutier may have been captured by the Russian forces in Mariupol. As an old-school, hands-on military man, he was photographed many times on the ground inside Ukraine before the war, training the Ukrainian Army to NATO standards. In a press conference Cloutier described Ukrainians as his brothers.
> 
> The British were incidentally aiding the Ukrainian Navy while France had trained the air force.
> 
> Cloutier would have been instrumental in the planned Ukrainian assault on Donbass and such a knowledgeable man would be keen to be on the ground helping to co-ordinate the combined American, British and French intelligence and technical support to Ukraine during the preparation of the assault on Donbass. “His arrogance may also have got him trapped inside Mariupol,” one source pointed out.
> 
> Another fact which may point to the importance of those trapped inside the steel plant in Mariupol: According to French researcher Thierry Meyssan, on March 29, 2022, General Eric Vidaud, director of French military intelligence, was dismissed and no official explanation was given. “It seems that in reality, General Vidaud had deployed men on the direct instruction of President Macron’s private staff, in 2021 when he was commander of special operations, to supervise the Azov Banderites regiment.”
> 
> Two of the five Ukrainian helicopters that had tried to flee the stronghold of the Azov regiment, after the Russians had encircled Mariupol, were shot down on March 30. The survivors were taken prisoner by the Russian army and were quite co-operative. Reporters near the scene have meanwhile found items belonging to French soldiers. According to unconfirmed rumours, a second attempt to flee via helicopter has also failed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The story of the evacuation of Western advisers from Mariupol became the plot of a minicomic. According to the plot, for them everything ends sadly. Screenshot of minicomic.
> 
> “The soldiers of the Special Operations Command are placed for all logistical matters under the orders of the Chief of Staff of the Armed Forces, General Thierry Burkhard, but they take their orders directly from the head of the armed forces, President Emmanuel Macron,” Meyssan explained.
> 
> Special operations helicopter pilots are not usually dispatched to exfiltrate mercenaries or even intelligence operatives, unless they happen to be senior CIA, MI6 or Mossad agents, a source said. “Much less would highly skilled and valuable Spec Ops pilots be sent on an ultra high risk mission twice.” Unless of course there happens to be high-level individuals trapped inside the steel plant.
> 
> Attacks in the vicinity by the Russian navy is believed to be connected to British _Sea Skua_ missiles being set up, suggesting further measures by the British to ensure that such operatives are not taken prisoner.
> 
> “Although _Sea Skua_ is an old system, the British have large stockpiles of them and they can be set up on a ground launch platform and fired from cover, a truck, inside a warehouse. They would make a mess of Russian supply ships and landing craft.”
> 
> The British have so far supplied thousands of missiles to Ukraine in the form of NLAWs, and now _Starstreak_, a short-range man-portable air-defence system. Boris Johnson earlier confirmed that anti-ship missiles would be sent to Ukraine.
> 
> An American General, co-ordinating Ukraine’s efforts against Russia together with NATO, could expose the direct military involvement of NATO and therefore its active participation in the war.
> 
> War commentator Pepe Escobar is certain that NATO advisers are still trapped in Mariupol: “Yes, there’s an array of NATO honchos still holed up with the Azov neo-Nazis in the bowels of Azovstal. Yet the key is what was going on in this underground eight floors down.”
> 
> According to Escobar there is a bioweapons laboratory in a deep bunker in which civilian prisoners of the “Biblioteka” are tortured and possibly exposed to human experiments. “The ‘pit’ may have been a NATO-run underground bio-lab at Azovstal.”
> 
> Avostal’s owner Rinat Akhmetov, a Ukrainian oligarch, has been involved in these experiments, said Escobar. Akhmetov is linked to _Metabiota,_ a company in which Hunter Biden’s is implicated. On Hunter’s abandoned laptop there are emails detailing how Hunter had helped secure millions of dollars of funding for _Metabiota_, a Department of Defense contractor specializing in research on pandemic-causing diseases that could be used as bioweapons.
> 
> Furthermore, Biden introduced _Metabiota_ to an allegedly corrupt Ukrainian gas firm, _Burisma_, for a “science project” involving high biosecurity level labs.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511438266813321254
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rumours keep swirling of Western military advisers trapped in Mariupol | Free West Media
> 
> 
> There have been unconfirmed rumors on social media that US Army Major General Cloutier has been captured by the Russian forces in Mariupol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freewestmedia.com


What an incompetence. The second largest army in the world can’t take a seaside city after 2 months. Instead, inventing more nazi stories.



Paul2 said:


> They lost an *entire tank army*, what 1 already damaged tank division will do? Even if they are supposed to be the best. There are already territorials, and their INLAWs behind every tree near Izyum gap.
> 
> Of course it will be a bloody fight, but nothing more than that.


The 4th tank division is refreshed rearmed and just one of the army divisions. Then coming the airborne brigade that was engaged in the initial assault. The Russians probably amassing 100,000 men for the battle.


----------



## Paul2

Viet said:


> What an incompetence. The second largest army in the world can’t take a seaside city after 2 months. Instead, inventing more nazi stories.
> 
> 
> The 4th tank division is just one of the army divisions. The Russians probably amassing 100,000 men for the battle.



I mean they lost their best dedicated tank force.

Other Russian mechanised divisions have own tanks, but they were never been prepared to be 1st line of attack.

As far as I know their military doctrine, only dedicated tank divisions were the real offensive force. In Russian military, tank divisions are to have more heavy artillery than mechanised divisions.

And they must have had their armies special artillery detachments attached to them for offensive.

Though, we haven't seen much artillery losses on Russian side in Ukraine according to Oryx, even if we take Ukrainian number of ~400, it would be disproportionally low for Russia.

My guess, Russia is limited by the number of artillery officers. This is why they can send in more guns from reserves, but we never seen amassed use of long range 155 fires.

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## CAPRICORN-88

History taught us when the US that announced quick resounding victories in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, etc she later lost all of them as the war grinds on. Now she is in denial. 

When the war finally ended in Eastern part of Ukraine, we will tell you why the Russia did it this way. 

These are bitter lessons drawn from Afghanistan, Chechen, etc. 

Meanwhile don't be a noisy spectator.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
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## Viet

Paul2 said:


> I mean they lost their best dedicated tank force.
> 
> Other Russian mechanised divisions have own tanks, but they were never been prepared to be 1st line of attack.
> 
> As far as I know their military doctrine, only dedicated tank divisions were the real offensive force. In Russian military, tank divisions are to have more heavy artillery than mechanised divisions.
> 
> And they must have had their armies special artillery detachments attached to them for offensive.
> 
> Though, we haven't seen much artillery losses on Russian side in Ukraine according to Oryx, even if we take Ukrainian number of ~400, it would be disproportionally low for Russia.
> 
> My guess, Russia is limited by the number of artillery officers. This is why they can send in more guns from reserves, but we never seen amassed use of long range 155 fires.


How is Russian army organized for the war? Do they have formed army groups, tank armies or something similar?
Impossible that Russians lost major fighting force in Kiev. For the incoming battle Ukraine says they expect WW II like scenario with thousands of tanks and columns of armor assault. Western Intel says Putin recruits for the offensive young men in the occupied Transininia.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Vergennes said:


> Russian air force is trash,the reason they are flying low is because they lack targeting pods and guided bombs in great numbers,so they have to use unguided rockets and bombs,flying low to achieve some accuracy.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512949130498392066


They don't lack targeting pods what they lack is the bombs. All they use is iron bombs


----------



## Paul2

Viet said:


> How is Russian army organized for the war? Do they have formed army groups, tank armies or something similar?
> Impossible that Russians lost major fighting force in Kiev. For the incoming battle Ukraine says they expect WW II like scenario with thousands of tanks and columns of armor assault. Western Intel says Putin recruits for the offensive young men in the occupied Transininia.



Most basic idea: back in USSR times 20000 tanks steamroll europe following heavy artillery bombardment, and 80000 mechanised armour units.

Implementing that on much smaller scale turned difficult... if not impossible

Russia had 1500 units of heavy armour in usable conditions, in active units. They lost 500 as a minimum according to Oryx, and those were the most up to date vehicles.

Russian tank forces were never made to work without their heavy self propelled artillery which pounds treelines, and defilades with "walking artillery barrages" in front of them.

Why they can't deploy arty en masse as USSR did? Not enough arty officers, and logistic trains can't sustain real "walking barrages" today.


----------



## SalarHaqq

Rumours keep swirling of Western military advisers trapped in Mariupol​
*There have been unconfirmed rumors on social media that US Army Major General Cloutier has been captured by the Russian forces in Mariupol.*

Published: April 6, 2022, 12:22 pm

_Intel Slava Z_, a Telegram channel, reported earlier that NATO officers from Germany, France, the UK and Sweden were trapped with Azov fighters in Mariupol.

Some frantic efforts to rescue these trapped individuals have been recorded. Western powers would not like to see NATO commanders or mercenaries eventually paraded with Azov fighters for obvious historical purposes. The optics of fighting for Nazis is not a popular one.

There are even rumors of a captured US general but they could not be confirmed. The general in question is to the Ukrainian military what Victoria Nuland is to Ukrainian politicians – an instrumental figure.

US Army Major General Cloutier may have been captured by the Russian forces in Mariupol. As an old-school, hands-on military man, he was photographed many times on the ground inside Ukraine before the war, training the Ukrainian Army to NATO standards. In a press conference Cloutier described Ukrainians as his brothers.

The British were incidentally aiding the Ukrainian Navy while France had trained the air force.

Cloutier would have been instrumental in the planned Ukrainian assault on Donbass and such a knowledgeable man would be keen to be on the ground helping to co-ordinate the combined American, British and French intelligence and technical support to Ukraine during the preparation of the assault on Donbass. “His arrogance may also have got him trapped inside Mariupol,” one source pointed out.

Another fact which may point to the importance of those trapped inside the steel plant in Mariupol: According to French researcher Thierry Meyssan, on March 29, 2022, General Eric Vidaud, director of French military intelligence, was dismissed and no official explanation was given. “It seems that in reality, General Vidaud had deployed men on the direct instruction of President Macron’s private staff, in 2021 when he was commander of special operations, to supervise the Azov Banderites regiment.”

Two of the five Ukrainian helicopters that had tried to flee the stronghold of the Azov regiment, after the Russians had encircled Mariupol, were shot down on March 30. The survivors were taken prisoner by the Russian army and were quite co-operative. Reporters near the scene have meanwhile found items belonging to French soldiers. According to unconfirmed rumours, a second attempt to flee via helicopter has also failed.





The story of the evacuation of Western advisers from Mariupol became the plot of a minicomic. According to the plot, for them everything ends sadly. Screenshot of minicomic.

“The soldiers of the Special Operations Command are placed for all logistical matters under the orders of the Chief of Staff of the Armed Forces, General Thierry Burkhard, but they take their orders directly from the head of the armed forces, President Emmanuel Macron,” Meyssan explained.

Special operations helicopter pilots are not usually dispatched to exfiltrate mercenaries or even intelligence operatives, unless they happen to be senior CIA, MI6 or Mossad agents, a source said. “Much less would highly skilled and valuable Spec Ops pilots be sent on an ultra high risk mission twice.” Unless of course there happens to be high-level individuals trapped inside the steel plant.

Attacks in the vicinity by the Russian navy is believed to be connected to British _Sea Skua_ missiles being set up, suggesting further measures by the British to ensure that such operatives are not taken prisoner.

“Although _Sea Skua_ is an old system, the British have large stockpiles of them and they can be set up on a ground launch platform and fired from cover, a truck, inside a warehouse. They would make a mess of Russian supply ships and landing craft.”

The British have so far supplied thousands of missiles to Ukraine in the form of NLAWs, and now _Starstreak_, a short-range man-portable air-defence system. Boris Johnson earlier confirmed that anti-ship missiles would be sent to Ukraine.

An American General, co-ordinating Ukraine’s efforts against Russia together with NATO, could expose the direct military involvement of NATO and therefore its active participation in the war.

War commentator Pepe Escobar is certain that NATO advisers are still trapped in Mariupol: “Yes, there’s an array of NATO honchos still holed up with the Azov neo-Nazis in the bowels of Azovstal. Yet the key is what was going on in this underground eight floors down.”

According to Escobar there is a bioweapons laboratory in a deep bunker in which civilian prisoners of the “Biblioteka” are tortured and possibly exposed to human experiments. “The ‘pit’ may have been a NATO-run underground bio-lab at Azovstal.”

Avostal’s owner Rinat Akhmetov, a Ukrainian oligarch, has been involved in these experiments, said Escobar. Akhmetov is linked to _Metabiota,_ a company in which Hunter Biden’s is implicated. On Hunter’s abandoned laptop there are emails detailing how Hunter had helped secure millions of dollars of funding for _Metabiota_, a Department of Defense contractor specializing in research on pandemic-causing diseases that could be used as bioweapons.

Furthermore, Biden introduced _Metabiota_ to an allegedly corrupt Ukrainian gas firm, _Burisma_, for a “science project” involving high biosecurity level labs.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511438266813321254








Rumours keep swirling of Western military advisers trapped in Mariupol | Free West Media


There have been unconfirmed rumors on social media that US Army Major General Cloutier has been captured by the Russian forces in Mariupol.




freewestmedia.com

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## SalarHaqq

Viet said:


> Instead, inventing more nazi stories.



So the American and French military officers believed to be stuck in Mariupol are nazis? Thought so.









Viet said:


> What an incompetence. The second largest army in the world can’t take a seaside city after 2 months.



Whether or not it's a seaside city won't really matter in this regard, nor is its size the most decisive factor. What counts is how well defended the town is, by how many units as well as the quality of their equipment and training. Considering that:

* An estimated minimum of 15.000 units, composed of nihilistic-minded Azov Brigade extremists keen on reenacting the hopeless 1945 defense of Berlin, plus Ukrainian Marines, the crème de la crème of the Kiev's armed forces who had been trained to NATO levels by the west,

* The Russian contingent attacking them is less than three times that size (an attacking force is supposed to be three times as large as (near-)peer defenders),

* Russia has sought to avoid turning the place into rubble NATO-style, like it would have been capable of, given that it is part of the Novorossiya region, has a significant population of Russian-speakers as well as Europe's largest steel plant sheltering Ukrainian troops and which Russia is trying to avoid damaging as best as possible in order to save reconstruction costs once the inevitable liberation of Mariupol is completed,

I'd say the Russian military has shown itself to be highly effective and professional in this battle. Thus far around 12.000 Ukrainian army units and members of extremist retribution brigades have likely been eliminated, with some 3.000 more to follow, since they've nowhere to escape.

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## bobo6661

Ukrainian military destroyed Russian army warehouse near Novoaidar in Luhansk region​

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513410271422857217

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513423984460800005

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513121638841208835

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513422056951619585
Tsya a bunch of dead bodies - just a part of the battalion tactful group, like the Ukrainian soldiers fell under the hour of assault on low settlements near the Donetsk region.

It is significant that the military armies of the occupiers lay to the ground, having taken an active part in the war in Syria.



Spoiler





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513415759778697217

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513418923567423489


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## DF41

I am so happy to receive another 2 more of this T shirt

That I be wearing very proudly and in honor of their valiant deNazification of Ukraine

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## SalarHaqq

A well documented, must-read piece by Scott Ritter.

_____









Is the Truth about Bucha too inconvenient to be discovered?


In war, truth is the first casualty.” This quote has been attributed to Aeschylus, a 6th BCE Greek tragedian noted for his “copious use of imagery, mythic allusion, grand language, wordplay and...




www.thecitizen.co.tz






*Is the Truth about Bucha too inconvenient to be discovered?

Wednesday April 06 2022*






*Summary*
*The chronology of the narrative produces the first red flag that the story being peddled by Ukraine, and echoed in the West, is not what it seems. It is established fact that Russian troops evacuated Bucha on March 30.*

By Scott Ritter

In war, truth is the first casualty.” This quote has been attributed to Aeschylus, a 6th BCE Greek tragedian noted for his “copious use of imagery, mythic allusion, grand language, wordplay and riddles.”

It is only fitting, therefore, that the man who first gave word to the concept of modern-day war-time propaganda would see his quote come to life in the present-day Ukraine.

The Kiev government and their Western information warfare advisers may have coopted all of Aeschylus’ playwright devices to craft a modern-day tragedy in the Ukrainian town of Bucha that exemplifies the notion of the lie as not just a byproduct, but also a weapon of war.

The main source of the Bucha tragedy reports is a videotape, taken by the Ukrainian National Police, of one of their convoys driving through a street in the town. A dozen or so corpses litter the roadway, many of them appearing to have been bound.

This video has gone viral, producing a pandemic of anguish and anger that has swept over much of the world, capturing the attention of heads of state and the head of the Catholic Church alike, resulting in a tidal wave of condemnation and outrage directed at Russia and its president, Vladimir Putin. The cause-and-effect relationship between the video and the global backlash is clear – the former could not exist without the latter.

One of the first lessons of objectivity is to slow things down to make sure that fact is not obscured by emotion. The Bucha videotape is disturbing. The video has been released in its present form, it appears, with the express intent of producing a visceral “shock and awe” moment for the viewer.

If this was indeed the case, then those who released it – the Ukrainian National Police – have succeeded beyond their wildest imagination. Or that of their advisors, as the case may be.

The linkage between the dead and the Russian military was established immediately, without any fact-based data to back it up, and subsequently echoed in all forms of media – mainstream and social alike. Anyone who dared question the established “Russia did it” narrative was shouted down and belittled as a “Russian shill,” or worse.

That these conclusions are the byproduct of mass hysteria is beside the point – why seek to be objective when the narrative fits every stereotype that had been carefully assembled beforehand by the same people parroting the Bucha story today.

Social “preconditioning” of an audience unused to critical thinking is an essential step in getting this audience to accept at face value anything that is put before it, regardless of how egregiously the facts of the story strain credulity. And let’s be clear – the Ukrainian narrative of the events in Bucha seems to stretch credibility.

The chronology of the narrative produces the first red flag that the story being peddled by Ukraine, and echoed in the West, is not what it seems. It is established fact that Russian troops evacuated Bucha on March 30.

Ukrainian National Police began entering Bucha on March 31, and that same day the mayor of Bucha announced that the town was fully under the control of Ukrainian officials.

At no time was there any suggestion by the mayor or any other Ukrainian official of mass killings undertaken by Russia. The videotape in question was released by Ukrainian authorities on April 2; it is not certain if the video had been taken earlier, or on that day.

What is certain is that the images shown in the video differed sharply from the narrative initially portrayed by the mayor.

For its part, Russia has vehemently denied the allegations, and has requested an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council to discuss what the Russian Foreign Ministry has called the “criminal provocations by Ukrainian soldiers and radicals” in Bucha.

The presidency of the Security Council is held by Great Britain, and the British mission to the UN has denied the Russian request, stating that a discussion on Ukraine currently scheduled for Tuesday, April 4 would serve as a forum for any discussion about Bucha.

One would think that the Security Council, which has shown a readiness in the past to meet on short notice to discuss the events coming out of Ukraine, would seek to accommodate Russia’s request on a matter of such importance.

The goal of the British, however, does not appear to be the rapid search for truth and justice, but rather to buy time to allow the political fallout from the alleged massacre in Bucha to develop further.

One example of this tactic manifesting itself is the reaction of US President Joe Biden. “You saw what happened in Bucha,” he explained to reporters, adding that Russian President Vladimir Putin “is a war criminal.”

Biden took advantage of the Bucha crisis to advocate for the delivery of more weaponry to Ukraine. “We have to continue to provide Ukraine with the weapons they need to continue the fight,” he said. “And we have to gather all the detail so this can be an actual – have a war crimes trial.”

All this from the president of a country which has refused to recognise the International Criminal Court. For reasons which should be obvious to anyone willing to apply some critical thought.

Fortunately for President Biden and the Ukrainian government, the British chief prosecutor of the court, Karim Khan, announced in early March 2022 that he had launched an investigation into alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity committed in Ukraine.

Given the high profile of the Bucha allegations, one would imagine that Khan has dispatched a forensics team to take control of the crime scene and oversee autopsies on the victims to establish the time of death, mechanism of death, and whether the victims had died where they were allegedly found, or if their bodies had been moved there from another location.

Khan would also be empowered to conduct interviews with the Ukrainian National Police, who have a history of close relations with members of the Ukrainian far right, including the infamous Azov Battalion. Of particular interest would be any investigation into orders given to the police regarding the treatment of those Ukrainian civilians deemed to have collaborated with the Russian military during its occupation of Bucha.

The results of such an investigation would more than likely conflict with the narrative being pursued by the Ukrainian government and echoed in the West by compliant media outlets and politicians alike. This is the prime reason why Khan is not currently on the ground in Bucha. One can assume that if and when Khan is eventually given access to evidence about the Bucha killings, it will have been manipulated by the Ukrainian National Police to such an extent that disproving the allegations will be virtually impossible.

The truth about what happened in Bucha is out there, waiting to be discovered. Unfortunately, that truth appears to be inconvenient for those in a position to pursue it aggressively through a forensics-based, on-site investigation.

If it so happens that it eventually emerges that the Ukrainian National Police murdered Ukrainian civilians for the crime of allegedly collaborating with the Russians during their brief occupation of Bucha, and the forces of international law are brought to bear against the true perpetrators of that crime, any true pursuit of justice would have to include both the US and UK governments as witting co-conspirators in any crime charged.

*Scott Ritter is a former US Marine Corps intelligence officer and author of 'SCORPION KING: America's Suicidal Embrace of Nuclear Weapons from FDR to Trump.' He served in the Soviet Union as an inspector implementing the INF Treaty, in General Schwarzkopf’s staff during the Gulf War, and from 1991-1998 as a UN weapons inspector.*

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Not a war?
> 
> You mean Russian tanks rolling into other country is a barbecue party or what?
> 
> What if Russian tanks rolling into China?
> Will you call it war or special barbecue operation?
> 
> Even if Ukrainian is run by gay nazi sponsored by US imperialists what has it anything to do with Russia?


What was nato attack on Libya was called

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## CAPRICORN-88

SalarHaqq said:


> Rumours keep swirling of Western military advisers trapped in Mariupol​
> *There have been unconfirmed rumors on social media that US Army Major General Cloutier has been captured by the Russian forces in Mariupol.*
> 
> Published: April 6, 2022, 12:22 pm
> 
> _Intel Slava Z_, a Telegram channel, reported earlier that NATO officers from Germany, France, the UK and Sweden were trapped with Azov fighters in Mariupol.
> 
> Some frantic efforts to rescue these trapped individuals have been recorded. Western powers would not like to see NATO commanders or mercenaries eventually paraded with Azov fighters for obvious historical purposes. The optics of fighting for Nazis is not a popular one.
> 
> There are even rumors of a captured US general but they could not be confirmed. The general in question is to the Ukrainian military what Victoria Nuland is to Ukrainian politicians – an instrumental figure.
> 
> US Army Major General Cloutier may have been captured by the Russian forces in Mariupol. As an old-school, hands-on military man, he was photographed many times on the ground inside Ukraine before the war, training the Ukrainian Army to NATO standards. In a press conference Cloutier described Ukrainians as his brothers.
> 
> The British were incidentally aiding the Ukrainian Navy while France had trained the air force.
> 
> Cloutier would have been instrumental in the planned Ukrainian assault on Donbass and such a knowledgeable man would be keen to be on the ground helping to co-ordinate the combined American, British and French intelligence and technical support to Ukraine during the preparation of the assault on Donbass. “His arrogance may also have got him trapped inside Mariupol,” one source pointed out.
> 
> Another fact which may point to the importance of those trapped inside the steel plant in Mariupol: According to French researcher Thierry Meyssan, on March 29, 2022, General Eric Vidaud, director of French military intelligence, was dismissed and no official explanation was given. “It seems that in reality, General Vidaud had deployed men on the direct instruction of President Macron’s private staff, in 2021 when he was commander of special operations, to supervise the Azov Banderites regiment.”
> 
> Two of the five Ukrainian helicopters that had tried to flee the stronghold of the Azov regiment, after the Russians had encircled Mariupol, were shot down on March 30. The survivors were taken prisoner by the Russian army and were quite co-operative. Reporters near the scene have meanwhile found items belonging to French soldiers. According to unconfirmed rumours, a second attempt to flee via helicopter has also failed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The story of the evacuation of Western advisers from Mariupol became the plot of a minicomic. According to the plot, for them everything ends sadly. Screenshot of minicomic.
> 
> “The soldiers of the Special Operations Command are placed for all logistical matters under the orders of the Chief of Staff of the Armed Forces, General Thierry Burkhard, but they take their orders directly from the head of the armed forces, President Emmanuel Macron,” Meyssan explained.
> 
> Special operations helicopter pilots are not usually dispatched to exfiltrate mercenaries or even intelligence operatives, unless they happen to be senior CIA, MI6 or Mossad agents, a source said. “Much less would highly skilled and valuable Spec Ops pilots be sent on an ultra high risk mission twice.” Unless of course there happens to be high-level individuals trapped inside the steel plant.
> 
> Attacks in the vicinity by the Russian navy is believed to be connected to British _Sea Skua_ missiles being set up, suggesting further measures by the British to ensure that such operatives are not taken prisoner.
> 
> “Although _Sea Skua_ is an old system, the British have large stockpiles of them and they can be set up on a ground launch platform and fired from cover, a truck, inside a warehouse. They would make a mess of Russian supply ships and landing craft.”
> 
> The British have so far supplied thousands of missiles to Ukraine in the form of NLAWs, and now _Starstreak_, a short-range man-portable air-defence system. Boris Johnson earlier confirmed that anti-ship missiles would be sent to Ukraine.
> 
> An American General, co-ordinating Ukraine’s efforts against Russia together with NATO, could expose the direct military involvement of NATO and therefore its active participation in the war.
> 
> War commentator Pepe Escobar is certain that NATO advisers are still trapped in Mariupol: “Yes, there’s an array of NATO honchos still holed up with the Azov neo-Nazis in the bowels of Azovstal. Yet the key is what was going on in this underground eight floors down.”
> 
> According to Escobar there is a bioweapons laboratory in a deep bunker in which civilian prisoners of the “Biblioteka” are tortured and possibly exposed to human experiments. “The ‘pit’ may have been a NATO-run underground bio-lab at Azovstal.”
> 
> Avostal’s owner Rinat Akhmetov, a Ukrainian oligarch, has been involved in these experiments, said Escobar. Akhmetov is linked to _Metabiota,_ a company in which Hunter Biden’s is implicated. On Hunter’s abandoned laptop there are emails detailing how Hunter had helped secure millions of dollars of funding for _Metabiota_, a Department of Defense contractor specializing in research on pandemic-causing diseases that could be used as bioweapons.
> 
> Furthermore, Biden introduced _Metabiota_ to an allegedly corrupt Ukrainian gas firm, _Burisma_, for a “science project” involving high biosecurity level labs.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511438266813321254
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rumours keep swirling of Western military advisers trapped in Mariupol | Free West Media
> 
> 
> There have been unconfirmed rumors on social media that US Army Major General Cloutier has been captured by the Russian forces in Mariupol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freewestmedia.com


This is the question I have been asking.
Thanks for input.

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## SalarHaqq

sammuel said:


> So how do you suppose this happened ?



I found the article I shared offers a documented and plausible explanation.



sammuel said:


> What ever the cause , if it was not for Russia invasion , those people would still be alive today.



It seems to me that the being invaded doesn't give one the right to commit crimes. 

As for the Russian special military operation, it's also the case that it was triggered by the Kiev regime agreeing to act as a NATO and US surrogate by violating the 2014 and 2015 Minsk agreements, shelling towns and cities of the Donbass, ratcheting anti-Russian sentiment, constantly threatening it would join NATO which implies it could play host to NATO troops on Russia's borders, declaring it was a mistake to part with its nuclear weapons after the collapse of the USSR, hosting suspected US biological weapons development facilities and then as per Russian intelligence planning to launch a large scale operation against the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics, which finally motivated Moscow to proceed with a preemptive move of its own.

This is while Ukraine could simply have chosen to remain neutral like Austria during the Cold War. It wouldn't have made it a Russian vassal, nor would it have cost it its sovereignty, its distinct national identity and its bilateral ties to the west.


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## CAPRICORN-88

The missing pieces in the Ukrainian puzzle is now beginning to show up.

So the US and NATO has been involved in directing the war in Donbass and caught red-handed.

A US Major General Cloutier has been captured and identified.

Their missions included *protecting underground bio-weapons labs.*

Will the captured US and NATO soldiers be publicly paraded in front of the international press once the fighting and operation at Azovstal Steelworks ended.

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## That Guy

DF41 said:


> I am so happy to receive another 2 more of this T shirt
> 
> That I be wearing very proudly and in honor of their valiant deNazification of Ukraine
> 
> View attachment 833202


Lmao, cringe 😬 🤣

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## sammuel

SalarHaqq said:


> I found the article I shared to offer a documented and plausible explanation.




Well . it fails not do that.



SalarHaqq said:


> As for the Russian special military operation,



Sure " special military operation " . . .

This is war .

Now even the Russians call it for what it is : War.

And a bloody one , an avoidable one , and a pointless one , if I may add.


Do not call Ukraine invasion a ‘war’, Russia tells media, schools​









Do not call Ukraine invasion a ‘war’, Russia tells media, schools


Instead, ‘special military operation’ should be used to describe Moscow’s assault on Ukraine, according to officials.




www.aljazeera.com






nope sorry , it is :


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## Primus

That Guy said:


> Lmao, cringe 😬 🤣


Agreed lol


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513376648430727170

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513377058600095744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513377885444198402

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513378443081052160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513416309815799811

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513418725030252546

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513440233596936192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513440792085291014

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513450732212600836

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513451103936987143

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513432960212611073

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513366557501579265


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513367009702166536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513372992683786244


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513415841588854786

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512991054487863301


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513415841588854786



Kh-35U has range 200 to 300 km against land targets, giving them stand off range.


----------



## bobo6661

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Kh-35U has range 200 to 300 km against land targets, giving them stand off range.


Point is if they starting to use anti-ship missiles to hit land targets they could be getting low on missiles ...


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

bobo6661 said:


> Point is if they starting to use anti-ship missiles to hit land targets they could be getting low on missiles ...



Kh-35U is fitted with GLONASS guidance for attacking land targets if I'm not mistaken. Even Harpoon can attack land targets. These are not specifically anti ship missiles. These are in general anti surface missiles. Surface includes ships, surfaced subs, land targets.









Boeing Harpoon Block II Missile Successfully Attacks Land Target


The U.S. Navy yesterday successfully tested the new Harpoon Block II missile against a land target on San Nicolas Island at the Naval Air Warfare Center-Weapons Division sea range off Pt. Mugu, Calif.




boeing.mediaroom.com






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513451592145645568


----------



## sammuel

~


Austrian visit to Moscow to tell Putin the truth, minister says













AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - Austrian Chancellor Karl Nehammer's visit to meet Vladimir Putin on Monday is meant to tell the Russian president the truth about the war in Ukraine, Austrian Foreign Minister Alexander Schallenberg said.

"It makes a difference to be face to face and tell him what the reality is: that this president has de facto lost the war morally", Schallenberg said upon his arrival for a meeting with EU counterparts in Luxembourg.

"It should be in his own interest that someone tells him the truth. I think it is important and we owe it to ourselves if we want to save human lives."










Austrian visit to Moscow to tell Putin the truth, minister says


AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - Austrian Chancellor Karl Nehammer's visit to meet Vladimir Putin on Monday is meant to tell the Russian president the truth about the war in Ukraine, Austrian Foreign Minister Alexander Schallenberg said. "It makes a difference to be face to face and tell him what the...




www.swissinfo.ch




~

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## bobo6661

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Kh-35U is fitted with GLONASS guidance for attacking land targets if I'm not mistaken. Even Harpoon can attack land targets. These are not specifically anti ship missiles. These are in general anti surface missiles. Surface includes ships, surfaced subs, land targets.


Guess russians disagree with you


http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/aerospace-systems/air-to-air-missile/kh-35ue/



Kh-35UE
Tactical anti-ship missile
The Kh-35UE tactical anti-ship missile is an advanced version of the Kh-35E air-launched anti-ship missile.


----------



## Viet

Paul2 said:


> Most basic idea: back in USSR times 20000 tanks steamroll europe following heavy artillery bombardment, and 80000 mechanised armour units.
> 
> Implementing that on much smaller scale turned difficult... if not impossible
> 
> Russia had 1500 units of heavy armour in usable conditions, in active units. They lost 500 as a minimum according to Oryx, and those were the most up to date vehicles.
> 
> Russian tank forces were never made to work without their heavy self propelled artillery which pounds treelines, and defilades with "walking artillery barrages" in front of them.
> 
> Why they can't deploy arty en masse as USSR did? Not enough arty officers, and logistic trains can't sustain real "walking barrages" today.


Russia has 12,000 tanks according to estimates, so there is still a lot of rooms. In total 186 battalions. They seem not organizing like they did during Soviet times. Why Putin army performed so poorly? They participated this special military operation as a 3-day-war. He expected Ukraine would greet the invasion army with flowers, his brain never thought Ukraine would greet with Molotov cocktails.

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## bobo6661

more dumb russian looters filming themself


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513457321514573830
The occupiers are separated according to the number of soldiers of the 54th OMBR

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513455416486903808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513458274682773507

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513270924195377165

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513415933632688131


----------



## Muhammed45

Russia destroyed Ukr S-300s 














Russian sources say that the S-300 launchers donated by Slovakia were also destroyed.

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513298097371295747

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513322622305587201

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513312442423648263

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## Primus

bobo6661 said:


> Ukrainian military destroyed Russian army warehouse near Novoaidar in Luhansk region​
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513410271422857217
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513423984460800005
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513121638841208835
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513422056951619585
> Tsya a bunch of dead bodies - just a part of the battalion tactful group, like the Ukrainian soldiers fell under the hour of assault on low settlements near the Donetsk region.
> 
> It is significant that the military armies of the occupiers lay to the ground, having taken an active part in the war in Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513415759778697217
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513418923567423489


That tank was a T72B3 tank sporting russian camo pattern. 

Those soldiers dont have armbands to identify them. 

Could be UKR could be RUS.


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## bobo6661

Huffal said:


> Could be UKR could be RUS.


could be friendly fire to 🤷‍♂️


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## Primus

bobo6661 said:


> could be friendly fire to 🤷‍♂️


Could be, but i highly doubt it. From that range, you should be able to identify who is and who isnt a friendly


----------



## thetutle

Tshering22 said:


> This madness has to stop. The constant supply of arms by UK to the Ukrainian Zelensky forces is going to make this war bloodier. Basically, NATO is fighting Russia to the last Ukrainian. Instead of leaving some neutral ground for negotiations, they are intimidating everyone to pick a side instead.


Yes, if you want to destroy a European democracy, you will indeed get quite bloody. 


Tshering22 said:


> There is so much pressure on developing countries to "pick a side" and those who don't, are being threatened to either join "the enemy". I truly wonder if the people of United States and Britain have thought the consequences of this madness for themselves and their country.


This is the case and only likely getting more so. You have to pick sides in todays world. you will not be able to sit on the sidelines and profit from it. 


Tshering22 said:


> Even European countries like France, Netherlands, Germany, Spain, etc., have begun to feel the pinch and are slowly moving away from their pro-war stance.


No they re not. 


Tshering22 said:


> Seriously feel sad about the Ukrainian civilians who are getting hammered from both sides for the Biden's and Boris Johnson's egos.


They are begging for help, and they are getting it. 


Tai Hai Chen said:


> British people are seriously inbred and suffer from mental illness. I feel bad for them. This war is going to destroy Britain and the British people will suffer.


This sick. How could you say that. 


Tai Hai Chen said:


> Boris Johnson is a crazy hooligan who loves a good fight in the street. No one takes him seriously. Don't forget, Russia can arm Argentina with combat drones to take Falklands. If I were Boris Johnson I best not mess with Russia.


Why don't they? They could have done it during the Cold War. 


SalarHaqq said:


> A well documented, must-read piece by Scott Ritter.
> Scott Ritter is a former US Marine Corps intelligence officer and author of 'SCORPION KING: America's Suicidal Embrace of Nuclear Weapons from FDR to Trump.' He served in the Soviet Union as an inspector implementing the INF Treaty, in General Schwarzkopf’s staff during the Gulf War, and from 1991-1998 as a UN weapons inspector.



Will he write a piece on why he finds children so sexually attractive? We would love to know. God knows what the Russians have on thus guy for him to so openly betray his country.

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## Primus

Just read a few pro UKR twitter accounts claiming Chinese forces are in Ukraine fighting for Russia 🤡🤡🤡

From shooting down a Tochka U ballistic missile with a Stinger MANPAD to Chinese forces in Ukraine. Amazing. Definitely nothing like the propaganda Armenia was doing against Azerbaijan during the NK2020 war. Where apparently SSG battalion were in NK fighting armenia lol.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513466840131018754

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513486007156551682

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513485783155544065

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513419654160658436

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513488533679443974

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513455268851552258

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Wood

Paul2 said:


> You can understand him. He has partygate on one side, and* Indians shapening knives *on the other. He needs something quite extraordinary to rescue his premiership.


What does you mean?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> Yes, if you want to destroy a European democracy, you will indeed get quite bloody.



Democracy? You are too idealistic.


----------



## Paul2

Wood said:


> What does you mean?



Tory desis who line up to take his post.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513497579908366344

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513494719560810497

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513455907488690178


----------



## Paul2

Viet said:


> Russia has 12,000 tanks according to estimates, so there is still a lot of rooms. In total 186 battalions. They seem not organizing like they did during Soviet times. Why Putin army performed so poorly? They participated this special military operation as a 3-day-war. He expected Ukraine would greet the invasion army with flowers, his brain never thought Ukraine would greet with Molotov cocktails.



Out of 12000 tanks, 3/4 are in storage, and are very old. Stuff which wasn't modernised since seventies, and ones which simply cannot be fielded due to no usable ammo left.

USSR doctrine is all about massive tank+artillery combo, with infantry handling cleanup duties.

Russia has nowhere near enough of both for that to work.

Soviet artillery had to not simply soften whatever comes in front of tanks, but turn it into lunar landscape.

Such extreme ammo expenditure is impossible with Russian logistical resources, nor they have enough artillery officers.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Primus

@bobo6661

Confirmed. The vid of the T72B3 firimg a HE shell at that group of soldiers up close turn out to be Ukrainian soldiers. I wont share the vid as its not safe for life. Here is the twitter link to the other link tho. Be warned though. Its not nice


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513493606753255430


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

bobo6661 said:


> Guess russians disagree with you
> 
> 
> http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/aerospace-systems/air-to-air-missile/kh-35ue/
> 
> 
> 
> Kh-35UE
> Tactical anti-ship missile
> The Kh-35UE tactical anti-ship missile is an advanced version of the Kh-35E air-launched anti-ship missile.



I quote from your link


http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/aerospace-systems/air-to-air-missile/kh-35ue/



A combined guidance system using an inertial system,* satellite navigation* and active-passive radar seeker

satellite navigation for example BeiDou, GPS, GLONASS is used for land attack


----------



## Wood

Paul2 said:


> Tory desis who line up to take his post.


Brown people trying to take over Churchill's party! That would be hilarious if it ever happens..


----------



## SalarHaqq

thetutle said:


> Will he write a piece on why he finds children so sexually attractive? We would love to know. God knows what the Russians have on thus guy for him to so openly betray his country.



According to the US regime and its cronies, that is. The same ones who tried to accuse Julian Assange of a sexual crime. Quite brazen and morally corrupt, coming from regimes many of whose ruling elites have notoriously been linked to paedocriminal activities, of which the revelations made so far about the Epstein case represent but the tip of the iceberg. Ask yourself why the FBI is keeping under wraps the names list of regulars at Epstein's paedocriminal sessions...

See, this right here is the true face of much of the ruling oligarchy in imperialist NATO regimes:















Here's Marina Abramovic, a buddy of John Podesta, the former White House Chief of Staff; also has ties to oligarch Bill Gates:













This is the "artwork" hanging on the walls of Podesta's private home:






I noticed it's been largely taken off the internet. Had to search for close to an hour to locate the above, and there's an even more shocking one which was no longer to be found. Wonder why.

Page from the book "La Vilaine Lulu" by French millionaire and fashion designer Yves Saint Laurent, former homosexual partner of his heir Pierre Bergé, an oligarch known for financing presidential campaigns and intervening in politics:






So I'd advice against taking at face value charges leveled by western regimes against dissidents and whistleblowers. Rather, we ought to ponder how shameless they are to issue such claims when it's among their own oligarchic elites that paedocriminals actually abound and operate with impunity.

By the way, Ritter started denouncing US policy long before the Ukrainian crisis, because he witnessed first hand how the regime in Washington was manipulating information to generate bogus "WMD evidence" against Iraq and justify an illegal invasion in 2003.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## thetutle

SalarHaqq said:


> According to the US regime and its cronies, that is. The same ones who tried to accuse Julian Assange of a sexual crime. Quite brazen and morally corrupt, coming from regimes many of whose ruling elites have notoriously been linked to paedocriminal activities, of which the revelations made so far about the Epstein case represent but the tip of the iceberg. Ask yourself why the FBI is keeping under wraps the names list of regulars at Epstein's paedocriminal sessions...
> 
> See, this right here is the true face of much of the ruling oligarchy in imperialist NATO regimes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's Marina Abramovic, a buddy of John Podesta, the former White House Chief of Staff; also has ties to oligarch Bill Gates:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 833267
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the "artwork" hanging on the walls of Podesta's private home:
> 
> View attachment 833280
> 
> 
> I noticed it's been largely taken off the internet. Had to search for close to an hour to locate the above, and there's an even more shocking one which was no longer to be found. Wonder why.
> 
> Page from the book "La Vilaine Lulu" by French millionaire and fashion designer Yves Saint Laurent, former homosexual partner of his heir Pierre Bergé, an oligarch known for financing presidential campaigns and intervening in politics:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So rather than taking at face value accusations leveled by western regimes against dissidents and whistleblowers, you'd be well advised to ponder why it is that they're issuing these claims, while paedocriminals among the ranks of their own oligarchic elites seem to be above the law.
> 
> And by the way, Ritter started denouncing US policy long before the Ukrainian crisis, because he witnessed first hand how the regime in Washington was manipulating information to generate bogus "WMD evidence" against Iraq and justify an illegal invasion in 2003.


Yes they need to be arrested especially the Serbian woman Maria Abramovic, Good riddance. 

Now back to the convicted child sex offender, Scott Ritter. why does he support Russia so much? what other crimes to they know about?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513498542467608580


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513080837117517825


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513080837117517825



Pro invasion crowd.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513176553286520839

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513327972505296897

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513444496851222533

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513400434077184002


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513488316326461446
Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with a drone capture device
It is a modern electronic anti-drone system EDM4S
Affiliated with NT-Servise of Lithuania


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513475488974524416


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513455696322482176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513136682526285825

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513303954825883649

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513263152607252481


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513303954825883649



It's much easier to take Kiev traveling up the Dnipr river from Kherson. I think they will try that after taking Kharkov.


----------



## Paul2

Kherson - now the scheme is clear

Ukrainians kept creeping into the city from the East, out of range of Russian light artillery guarding the bridge from the West.

Long range from up towards Mikolaiv prevents Russian repositioning to attack the flanking move in an open plain.

I see them rushing light infantry into the city + APCs with 30mms within a week.

The bridge is important of course, they don't want Russians to blow it up.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Paul2 said:


> Kherson - now the scheme is clear
> 
> Ukrainians kept creeping into the city from the East, out of range of Russian light artillery guarding the bridge from the West.
> 
> Long range from up towards Mikolaiv prevents Russian repositioning to attack the flanking move in an open plain.
> 
> I see them rushing light infantry into the city + APCs with 30mms within a week.
> 
> The bridge is important of course, they don't want Russians to blow it up.



Not gonna happen. Kherson is very important to Russian invaders. Kherson is at the mouth of Dnipr river and chokes the river. The plan is to travel up the Dnipr river from Kherson to take Kiev.

That's why Russian invaders been cruise missiling Ukraine's fuel depots to prevent an armored push towards Kherson.


----------



## The SC

Tai Hai Chen said:


> That young woman was really good breeding material. Sad loss for humanity. Rather than picking up a gun to fight, should have stayed home having kids


The Slavic women are fighters..I guess.. you should see the Russian women during WWII..from pilots to tankers to snipers ..they fought like men..


----------



## Primus

Tai Hai Chen said:


> That young woman was really good breeding material. Sad loss for humanity. Rather than picking up a gun to fight, should have stayed home having kids

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513510259540832257


----------



## mmr

Tai Hai Chen said:


> That young woman was really good breeding material. Sad loss for humanity. Rather than picking up a gun to fight, should have stayed home having kids


this explain why all Chinese women want white man in Canada lol.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513217693712846851


----------



## mmr

Vergennes said:


> Spoiler: graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513510259540832257


 not bother to collect the dead? what a disgrace.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513219582328246279

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513179527257722880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513327236161581056


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513510987827187714


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> The Slavic women are fighters..I guess.. you should see the Russian women during WWII..from pilots to tankers to snipers ..they fought like men..
> 
> View attachment 833297
> 
> 
> View attachment 833299
> 
> 
> View attachment 833300



There were lots of Viking women warriors too. Scared the bajeezes out of Chinese. That's why Chinese men never dared to invade northern Europe.


----------



## SalarHaqq

thetutle said:


> Yes they need to be arrested especially the Serbian woman Maria Abramovic, Good riddance.



Yes, NATO regime leaders need to be arrested indeed. So that not only more children will remain unharmed, but fewer wars are provoked and engineered, like the current one they brought about in Ukraine.



thetutle said:


> Now back to the convicted child sex offender, Scott Ritter. why does he support Russia so much? what other crimes to they know about?



Convicted by what sort of a court, by what sort of a criminal justice? The same kind of justice which attempted to have Assange jailed under similar pretexts, because he talked too much? The same western justice system which is presided over by oligarchs similar to those who paid visits to Epstein? Maybe, just maybe it's because Ritter's analyses much like Assange's leaks are successful at debunking their propaganda, which tends to suggest that allegations against these dissidents aren't worth much.

As for why Ritter refuses to parrot NATO regime propaganda relative to the Russian special military operation in Ukraine, I addressed it above: he witnessed US fabrications about Iraqi WMD first hand nearly 20 years ago, and it's been about 20 years that he's espousing a dissident view on foreign policy.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

mmr said:


> this explain why all Chinese women want white man in Canada lol.



White men are tall. 6 feet average in northern Europe these days. Chinese men only average 5'10" lol. I'm 5'10".


----------



## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> What was nato attack on Libya was called


No I don’t know maybe you can tell.


----------



## mmr

Tai Hai Chen said:


> White men are tall. 6 feet average in northern Europe these days. Chinese men only average 5'10" lol. I'm 5'10".


You are making comments about women totally disrespectful. Hope mod notices.

@waz

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Paul2 said:


> Out of 12000 tanks, 3/4 are in storage, and are very old. Stuff which wasn't modernised since seventies, and ones which simply cannot be fielded due to no usable ammo left.
> 
> USSR doctrine is all about massive tank+artillery combo, with infantry handling cleanup duties.
> 
> Russia has nowhere near enough of both for that to work.
> 
> Soviet artillery had to not simply soften whatever comes in front of tanks, but turn it into lunar landscape.
> 
> Such extreme ammo expenditure is impossible with Russian logistical resources, nor they have enough artillery officers.


No Putin’s Russia is just a shadow of USSR. Russia is smaller, less people, economy less diverse, however people more fanatics. It’s a gas station with nuclear bombs as the US sees it, or a gas station with most beautiful people with big heart as the Chinese see it.


----------



## Vergennes

mmr said:


> not bother to collect the dead? what a disgrace.



Previously held Russian areas were full of Russian soldiers killed,they didn't even bother collecting them while areas were under their control.


----------



## mmr

Vergennes said:


> Previously held Russian areas were full of Russian soldiers killed,they didn't even bother collecting them while areas were under their control.


This is so fucked up.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513464553341964293

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513454475846971392


----------



## Wood

mmr said:


> not bother to collect the dead? what a disgrace.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512488613820649473

Reactions: Angry Angry:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

mmr said:


> You are making comments about women totally disrespectful. Hope mod notices.
> 
> @waz



You are the one who claimed all the Chinese women in Canada want a white man. Now THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is racist.

This is what you said:



mmr said:


> this explain why all Chinese women want white man in Canada lol.
> 
> @waz



@waz

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Ukraine can buy 1 billion euros additional weapons including “heavy” from the EU.

Even Germany’s traditional pacific party Die Grünen is for delivery of everything Ukraine needs.

Zeitenwende 










Baerbock dringt auf schwere Waffen für die Ukraine


Die EU-Außenminister beraten heute über zusätzliche Maßnahmen wegen des russischen Angriffs auf die Ukraine - dabei geht es auch wieder um militärische Hilfe. Außenministerin Baerbock spricht sich für die Lieferung schwerer Waffen aus.




www.tagesschau.de

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513495335913545734

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513530560358068225


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Ukraine can buy 1 billion euros additional weapons including “heavy” from the EU.
> 
> Even Germany’s traditional pacific party Die Grünen is for delivery of everything Ukraine needs.
> 
> Zeitenwende
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Baerbock dringt auf schwere Waffen für die Ukraine
> 
> 
> Die EU-Außenminister beraten heute über zusätzliche Maßnahmen wegen des russischen Angriffs auf die Ukraine - dabei geht es auch wieder um militärische Hilfe. Außenministerin Baerbock spricht sich für die Lieferung schwerer Waffen aus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tagesschau.de



Didn't Ukraine get tillions of dollars from IMF to buy weapons? They can probably buy some Leopard 2 tanks from Germany. Maybe even a squadron of Typhoon.

Putin hates globalization. Putin is threat to IMF.


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513529938909007875


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513530560358068225



Looks like every Ukrainian soldier will be killed in Mariupol. Oh well.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513487998083649537

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513507184080007175


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512413895989907461


----------



## nang2

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513219582328246279
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513179527257722880
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513327236161581056


Gonzalo Lire just had a chat with Scott Ritter.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513205552700174340


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513509391533854731


----------



## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Didn't Ukraine get tillions of dollars from IMF to buy weapons? They can probably buy some Leopard 2 tanks from Germany. Maybe even a squadron of Typhoon.
> 
> Putin hates globalization. Putin is threat to IMF.


Please make no joke

Putin creates fear not only in Ukraine, but panics Poland, Romania, Baltic’s, Sweden, Finland, and even here in Germany.
The government pours money in war bunkers and air raid sirens.

I am for fully rearmament of Germany.

If Germany military complex turns in war mode they can make tanks, planes, battleships, submarines, missiles and everything else in thousands pieces per month.


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513527788191506441

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Primus

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513509391533854731


Leopard 1 tanks....oh God, just stick with the slovakian T72M1. At least those have composite armour. Albeit it wont protect from anything russia has, at least its better then just having RHA as your only source of protection

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Reportedly Germany will send 50 Leopard 1 tanks to Ukraine to be blown up by Russian Kornet and Metis M1 anti tank missiles. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513519679633043457


----------



## nang2

Huffal said:


> Leopard 1 tanks....oh God, just stick with the slovakian T72M1. At least those have composite armour. Albeit it wont protect from anything russia has, at least its better then just having RHA as your only source of protection


Maybe Green Party's idea. It is all about recycling.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Huffal said:


> Leopard 1 tanks....oh God, just stick with the slovakian T72M1. At least those have composite armour. Albeit it wont protect from anything russia has, at least its better then just having RHA as your only source of protection



T-72M1 is 1970s export downgraded. They are vastly inferior to T-72B used by Ukraine which is 1980s version.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513532793925603338

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513532793925603338



Tanks are outdated. Use pickup armed with anti tank missile.


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513532793925603338


I'm waiting to read that 'Russians have culminated in the east'


----------



## jamal18

thetutle said:


> europe doest have to buy US oil food or weapons. it can grow its own food and make its own weapons. and buy oil from the Middle East. Or stop oil and build more nuclear power plants.


Yes, but these are long term solutions.


----------



## Viet

nang2 said:


> Maybe Green Party's idea. It is all about recycling.


It’s better than nothing. Ukraine needs for the offensive every tank. Leopard 1 is immediately available.
Rheinmetall says training on Leo’s is done within days.






Bild vergrößern
Leopard-1-Panzer im Jahr 2000 bei einer Übung

Foto: Eckehard Schulz / AP


----------



## jamal18

thetutle said:


> I know, thats why I am asking if Russian citizens can buy gold at 5,000 ruble per gram.
> 
> If they can, I am going to russia to buy gold. Free money.
> 
> I can buy at least 200 rubles for every US dollar. With this gold price im getting gold at a major discount, like 50%+ off the gold spot price. Its basically free money
> 
> So my guess is Russia doe not allow its citizens to buy gold at this price. This is only the price Russia pays you when it confiscates your gold.


I know that you can freely buy gold in the UK, about £1500 per ounce at present.


----------



## Admiral Vance Lee

T-SaGe said:


> Tensions are rising in the east of Europe. It seems that both the Russian forces and Ukrainian forces are mobilized. After the end of the ceasefire, many clashes were recorded in the Donbas region, where separatist Russian militias were located. Due to growing concerns, NATO forces directed many of its platforms to the region.
> 
> The NATO bloc aircrafts constantly patrolling the black sea to support Ukraine and to detect early a possible Russian operation in the direction of Odesa.
> 
> There are largely visible military activities from Romania to Poland. Meanwhile, Russia has raised its military buildup on the Ukrainian border to its highest level since 2014.
> 
> A great storm is approaching, and the worst-case scenario poses such great risks that it can turn into a tragedy for the whole world.
> 
> My wish from the Moderation please make sticky this thread and control it several times a week for a possible troll and spam activities. Let's discuss together the tensest event of 2021 while keeping the thread as clean as possible and not turning it into another troll fest. TY @waz @krash
> 
> Current political map of Territory


Fake news AZ propaganda


----------



## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513487998083649537
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513507184080007175
> View attachment 833310


Ah Lavrov the liar!
For weeks if not months he denied invasion. The shameless liar even called female UK foreign minister as deaf when she came.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513544245411516423

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513544107641221126


----------



## jamal18

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Looks like every Ukrainian soldier will be killed in Mariupol. Oh well.


Many people are saying that it's over in Mariupol. Ukrainian lives being wasted for nothing.


----------



## The SC

Capturing the entire Donbass:

The main goal of Russia now is to capture the parts of the eastern Donbass that Moscow has not yet controlled.

Before the attack, Moscow appointed General Alexander Dvornikov, who leads the Southern Military District responsible for operations in Donbass, to oversee the campaign.

Unlike the first phase of the six-week-old conflict, this transition forces Ukraine to fight conventional battles involving tanks, artillery and aircraft on flat and often barren terrain that allows Russia to capitalize on its superiority in military hardware. 

Ukraine has about 40,000 soldiers in Donbass.. Some of the most professional and best high morale units in the country, and their numbers are almost as large as the Russians.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> It’s better than nothing. Ukraine needs for the offensive every tank. Leopard 1 is immediately available.
> Rheinmetall says training on Leo’s is done within days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bild vergrößern
> Leopard-1-Panzer im Jahr 2000 bei einer Übung
> 
> Foto: Eckehard Schulz / AP



Leopard 1 is very vulnerable to Kornet and Metis M1 anti tank missiles. The 105 mm gun is a bit bigger than BMD-4M's 100 mm.


----------



## jamahir

jamal18 said:


> Many people are saying that it's over in Mariupol. Ukrainian lives being wasted for nothing.



For the ego and stubbornness of Nazi-lover Zelensky.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513486007156551682


----------



## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Leopard 1 is very vulnerable to Kornet and Metis M1 anti tank missiles. The 105 mm gun is a bit bigger than BMD-4M's 100 mm.


Tell me a tank that is immune against missile? Even against Molotov cocktail?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513253233011085326


----------



## 925boy

mmr said:


> Russian gas will be replaced in coming year


by what? dont talk bs theory here ok? we live in reality, not you fantasy mind.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513416253586690048


----------



## nang2

925boy said:


> by what? dont talk bs theory here ok? we live in reality, not you fantasy mind.


Maybe they can learn from cows. Regurgitate and generate their own methane.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513417017210155010
Donetsk region


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513475080591974404


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513533278858395648


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513327972505296897

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513474338518884358

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513535747269308422

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513520278411874305


----------



## Type59

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513253233011085326


It's been destroyed. No evidence just a tweet🤷


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512933184664653826


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

I think Russians are ready for 50 Leopard 1 tanks. Kherson is well defended with hundreds of Kornet and Metis M1 anti tank missiles which out range Leopard 1 tank's 105 mm gun.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513538594996166662


----------



## The SC

The Russian Ministry of Defense: Our forces took control of the Kamenka area, the fortification line of the Ukrainian forces in Izyum

@arabic_post


----------



## Elvin

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513520278411874305



"Liberated" wow I can't believe this lol.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513516795495428097


----------



## nang2

Elvin said:


> "Liberated" wow I can't believe this lol.


Not that hard. They consider Ukrainians are occupiers.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Elvin said:


> "Liberated" wow I can't believe this lol.



Freed from nazis.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513516205163880452
A very long and huge Russian military convoy..

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513558415926308864

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Wood

Now that the theater of war has moved to the east, will the US be able to run signals intelligence as effectively as it did before on the Kyiv theater?


----------



## nang2

Wood said:


> Now that the theater of war has moved to the east, will the US be able to run signals intelligence as effectively as it did before on the Kyiv theater?


It is a short distance. Makes no difference.

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## Bleek

mmr said:


> this explain why all Chinese women want white man in Canada lol.


They want white men due to an inferiority complex

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513436729344249858








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513495065838198789

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## Type59

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513533278858395648


Why need ships, when land and air route available?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513436729344249858
> View attachment 833345
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513495065838198789



This pickup is a tank killer. Kills Leopard 1 tank from 4 km away.


----------



## Viet

Wood said:


> Now that the theater of war has moved to the east, will the US be able to run signals intelligence as effectively as it did before on the Kyiv theater?


Certainly
We can take it for granted.
US sats will mark every Russian tank so Ukraine artillery can shoot them like chickens.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513484795396956160


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Bleek said:


> They want white men due to an inferiority complex



China mainland spans 4,900+ km, bigger than any European country. If it is inferiority complex, it should be Europeans who have small countries.


----------



## Bleek

Tai Hai Chen said:


> China mainland spans 4,900+ km, bigger than any European country. If it is inferiority complex, it should be Europeans who have small countries.


What makes you think an inferiority complex would be derived from the size of a country?

The inferiority complex is largely sociocultural

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513565114926084096

Flattened


----------



## Bleek

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Chinese have light skin and Chinese men are the most intelligent men on the planet. New generation of Chinese men are also tall, average 5'10". I'm 5'10". If anything, all women crave Chinese men these days.


Chinese men (East Asian guys in general) have been getting a lot more popularity recently, but it's largely due to media influence from the whole boy bands (KPOP?) and fashion style. Perhaps intelligence too.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Bleek said:


> Chinese men (East Asian guys in general) have been getting a lot more popularity recently, but it's largely due to media influence from the whole boy bands (KPOP?) and fashion style. Perhaps intelligence too.



China is the most powerful country on the planet. So it makes sense. Power and wealth get you popular.


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

Quality of discussion in this thread is just.....

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## mmr

Bleek said:


> They want white men due to an inferiority complex


I heard about it.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513435734853701635


----------



## mmr

925boy said:


> by what? dont talk bs theory here ok? we live in reality, not you fantasy mind.


In two years it will be replaced.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> You are the one who claimed all the Chinese women in Canada want a white man. Now THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is racist.
> 
> This is what you said:
> 
> 
> 
> @waz


You are trolling everywhere.


----------



## 925boy

mmr said:


> In two years it will be replaced.


and what will European citizens and businesses and manufacturers do While they have to wait 2 years? Why buy US gov propaganda without thinking it through 1st? you write ok but your logic is poor, thats why i came for your posts.


----------



## mmr

925boy said:


> and what will European citizens and businesses and manufacturers do While they have to wait 2 years? Why buy US gov propaganda without thinking it through 1st? you write ok but your logic is poor, thats why i came for your posts.


Well russia wont cut the gas even EU dont pay in rouble.

And it took three decades to be dependent on russian gas. this war is only one month old. Process is already underway to reduce the exposure. Give it some time. 









Germany will stop importing Russian gas ‘very soon’, says Olaf Scholz


Chancellor declines to endorse claim by Boris Johnson during London visit that goal will be achieved by mid-2024




www.theguardian.com

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## Soldier35

Initially, it was believed that it was a tank of the Russian army that fired at a group of Ukrainian military at point-blank range, but then it turned out that Ukrainian taxi drivers fired at their own at point-blank range. There was an abandoned Russian BMP next to the soldiers, the tankers thought it was the Russian military and opened fire. There is already a video of the dead, but there is one tin on it..






An armada of Russian troops is marching on Kharkiv. Ukrainian media reported satellite images showing a giant Russian column of military equipment with a length of 12 km, going in the direction of Kharkov. Eyewitnesses from Ukraine have already started posting videos of this column of troops. As part of the special operation in Ukraine, a major battle will soon take place in the Donbas. After that, most likely, the troops will go to Kiev, since the success of the peace talks is very doubtful due to the statement of the head of EU diplomacy Josep Borrel, where he reports the need to resolve the conflict in Ukraine "on the battlefield", the actual Ukraine was told to fight.


----------



## Gomig-21

@jhungary , have you ever seen so many turrets fly off their vehicles so easily and frequently when they're hit, as in this war?

Something is really flimsy in the turret-spinning design & build the Russians are using when they assemble these things. Never before, when you look at the history of tanks battles -- and there have been many to go by -- including our Arab/Israeli wars where there were hundreds of tanks duking it out in not only wide open desert terrain, but in very close proximity as well. Granted in 1973 and earlier, ATGMs were only being introduced into the battlefield like our use of the SAGGER wire guided ATGM probably didn't have the explosive level that today's ATGMs and MANPADs have, but the devastating result to enemy tanks from these new weapons were very obvious that they were about to change tank warfare as it was known, and it did. 

Now we're seeing MANPADs take the lead in making tanks almost obsolete on the battlefield, especially in these heavily dense rural areas where there's an abundance of spots for soldiers of all types to hide and ambush enemy tanks.

No longer is infantry that useful to accompany armored vehicles like it used to be. As a matter of fact, that only adds them to the tanks depletion and becomes a useful collateral damage for the personnel firing the MANPADs. 

Still, the frequency of Russian turrets flying off and traveling great distances when hit in this war is staggering.

I nearly fell out of my chair when I saw this today lol.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513258535206862854


----------



## mmr

Viet said:


> Certainly
> We can take it for granted.
> US sats will mark every Russian tank so Ukraine artillery can shoot them like chickens.


Drones i guess?

NATO should send more drones asap. Seems very effective.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513573819163758597

What a strike

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## Viet

mmr said:


> Drones i guess?
> 
> NATO should send more drones asap. Seems very effective.


Maybe suicide drones 
Huge psychological effect

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513562277785612293


----------



## bobo6661

Huffal said:


> Confirmed. The vid of the T72B3 firimg a HE shell at that group of soldiers up close turn out to be Ukrainian soldiers. I wont share the vid as its not safe for life. Here is the twitter link to the other link tho. Be warned though. Its not nice


Yee seen that one look similar but was to gore to actualy watch it 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513482605513129985
So now its to end US domination, they changing the targer every week now

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## 925boy

mmr said:


> Well russia wont cut the gas even EU dont pay in rouble.


this implies EU CANT replace Russian gas, which was your intial argument. Congrats- you provided the evidence that your argument is false and you've proven that no matter what, the EU IS dependent on Russia for gas. if it took them 30 years to get dependent, then it will take them at least 10-20 years more to become nonindependent, if thats feasibly possible. smh

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## mmr

925boy said:


> this implies EU CANT replace Russian gas, which was your intial argument. Congrtas- you provided the evidence that your argument is false and you've proven that no matter what, the EU IS dependent on Russia for gas. if it took them 30 years to get dependent, then it will take them at least 10-20 years more to become nonindependent, if thats feasibly possible. smh


Russia wont cut gas since they have nothing else to sell lol. They simply dont have the balls to keep there own word. Its a pathetic country which depend on gas and oil money from EU. 

It will be replaced in next 2 to 5 years max. North korea version 2.0,


----------



## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> No I don’t know maybe you can tell.


it also was not called a war, it called protecting civilian, well the majority of protection happened in areas hundreds of km away from any settlement


----------



## Viet

bobo6661 said:


> Yee seen that one look similar but was to gore to actualy watch it
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513482605513129985
> So now its to end US domination, they changing the targer every week now


That’s Lavrov the liar.
Some days ago he says he wants to build a “new democratic world order” with China.
That’s why Russia goes to war.
He means serious. A new democratic world order. With China.
Politburo and party central commission.
The world needs it.









Russia says it's building a new "democratic world order" with China


Russia's top diplomat, visiting Beijing for the 1st time during his country's war in Ukraine, said the allies would "move towards a multipolar, just, democratic world order."




www.cbsnews.com


----------



## Hack-Hook

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513509391533854731


cleaning storage , make room for new product

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## bobo6661

Viet said:


> Some days ago he says he wants to build a “new democratic world order” with China.


More like officially becoming China's bitch then working together

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hack-Hook said:


> cleaning storage , make room for new product



Why Germany don't send Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine? Oh I get it. They don't like their reputation ruined when Leopard 2 tanks get blown up by Kornet missiles. Bad for sales.

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## Vergennes

bobo6661 said:


> More like officially becoming China's bitch then working together



LMAO those who think this will be an "equal partnership". China's only going to buy Russia at bargain prices. 

Real threat to Russia isn't NATO but is China.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Vergennes said:


> LMAO those who think this will be an "equal partnership". China's only going to buy Russia at bargain prices.
> 
> Real threat to Russia isn't NATO but is China.



That's right. China is the most powerful country on the planet. Also, Chinese men are the most intelligent men on the planet. The biggest threat to America is not Russia. The biggest threat to America is China.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513230141526364166


----------



## nang2

An old video. May help show that even Ukrainians themselves think they are the occupiers of Donbass.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513052674811441152


----------



## Ali_Baba

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513464553341964293
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513454475846971392



I do not think there are any NATO advisors - Russia has not been able to present any evidence. Given the amount of fighting and the area that Russia occupies - "some of these advisors" would have come into the possession of Russian forces - but they have not..

This is Fake Russian news...


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513605237994672134

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513549325389148161

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513542919763935236

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513453231250227202


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513600793101934595

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513581345842343948
Brave man! 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513603720646467589


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513136682526285825


----------



## 925boy

mmr said:


> Russia wont cut gas since they have nothing else to sell lol.


then why do they have to worry about selling anything else then when EU will never stop buying their oil? EU will buy their oil forever, as you've indirectly alluded to. LMAO


----------



## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513136682526285825



1xJavelin
2x AT4s
3x NLAWs
2xStingers

This unit is well armed


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> 1xJavelin
> 2x AT4s
> 3x NLAWs
> 2xStingers
> 
> This unit is well armed



Light weapons only. No fuel. Has to move around on foot only.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513630493455138820

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513635033755516932


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513634411102752776


----------



## The SC

Ali_Baba said:


> I do not think there are any NATO advisors - Russia has not been able to present any evidence. Given the amount of fighting and the area that Russia occupies - "some of these advisors" would have come into the possession of Russian forces - but they have not..
> 
> This is Fake Russian news...


 There are 5000 Azov militants in that steel factory in Mariupol.. no one knows who is leading them.. so it is all speculations for now..


----------



## jamal18

Excellent interview with the Hungarian foreign minister. Touches on gas situation in Europe.
Also Hungarian attitude to the conflict. They do not want Nato to be involved in Ukraine, and the war is kept in the Ukraine.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jamal18 said:


> Excellent interview with the Hungarian foreign minister. Touches on gas situation in Europe.
> Also Hungarian attitude to the conflict. They do not want Nato to be involved in Ukraine, and the war is kept in the Ukraine.



Hungary imported SInopharm. Hungary is now China's lapdog.

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## jamal18

Ali_Baba said:


> I do not think there are any NATO advisors - Russia has not been able to present any evidence. Given the amount of fighting and the area that Russia occupies - "some of these advisors" would have come into the possession of Russian forces - but they have not..
> 
> This is Fake Russian news...


Some truth. However there have been strange events in the steel works in Mariupol. Several extremely risky attempts to get certain people out of the steel works. The Ukrainians have lost several helicopters on these very risky missions. Lately a civilian ship tried to land near the steel mill and was stopped and captured by the Russian navy.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Humongous column moved from Kiev area to Donbas


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513632211693563904
situation in Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513631109988315136


----------



## jamal18

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Hungary imported SInopharm. Hungary is now China's lapdog.



So anybody who orders a chinese takeaway is China's lapdog?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jamal18 said:


> So anybody who orders a chinese takeaway is China's lapdog?



Nothing is for free. There is a price to be paid.


----------



## The SC

Urgent | US Defense Secretary: China seeks to reshape the region and the international order in ways that serve its interests

@ajmurgent


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513634763311140874


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> Urgent | US Defense Secretary: China seeks to reshape the region and the international order in ways that serve its interests
> 
> @ajmurgent
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513634763311140874



America beware. The dragon awakens.

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## The SC

The Russian Defense Ministry threatens Slovakia 🇸🇰 that it will not be spared from punishment after Ukraine handed over the S-300 missile systems to Ukraine 🇺🇦

The Russian Ministry of Defense....Russian forces will move to the third combat level...the comprehensive attack level in case the talks fail


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513253475043446794


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> The Russian Defense Ministry threatens Slovakia 🇸🇰 that it will not be spared from punishment after Ukraine handed over the S-300 missile systems to Ukraine 🇺🇦
> 
> The Russian Ministry of Defense....Russian forces will move to the third combat level...the comprehensive attack level in case the talks fail
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513253475043446794



S-300 will get cruise missile treatment. S-300 range 200 km. Cruise missile range 2,000 km.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513641275207081994


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513640676201693184


----------



## jamal18

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Nothing is for free. There is a price to be paid.





The SC said:


> The Russian Defense Ministry threatens Slovakia 🇸🇰 that it will not be spared from punishment after Ukraine handed over the S-300 missile systems to Ukraine 🇺🇦
> 
> The Russian Ministry of Defense....Russian forces will move to the third combat level...the comprehensive attack level in case the talks fail
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513253475043446794


S-300 destroyed in central Ukraine.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513622583907913742


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513644741157556225


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513614204820987906

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## Vergennes

So basically despite one month of having encircled Mariupol,leveling it to the ground and to the stone ages,Russians haven't been able to capture it entirely and now have to resort to using chemical weapons....


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513600793101934595


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Vergennes said:


> So basically despite one month of having encircled Mariupol,leveling it to the ground and to the stone ages,Russians haven't been able to capture it entirely and now have to resort to using chemical weapons....



Pretty much.


----------



## The SC

Some Ukrainian media say that the Pentagon insists on the withdrawal of the armed forces of Ukraine to the line (Kharkiv - Dnipro - Zaporozhye) and taking a defensive position in these large cities to avoid encirclement in southeastern Ukraine.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513588244880973834

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513580566263783432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513617560180346883


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513601844865638408


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513610888401543169


----------



## mmr

925boy said:


> then why do they have to worry about selling anything else then when EU will never stop buying their oil? EU will buy their oil forever, as you've indirectly alluded to. LMAO


Russia will follow what north Koreans do. Send russian ppl to work manual job in Europe in future for foreign exchange.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513478910297714691

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513646756638208001

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## nang2

The SC said:


> Some Ukrainian media say that the Pentagon insists on the withdrawal of the armed forces of Ukraine to the line (Kharkiv - Dnipro - Zaporozhye) and taking a defensive position in these large cities to avoid encirclement in southeastern Ukraine.


This is exactly what Scott Ritter said in today's interview. Basically, pull out as many as they can.


----------



## thetutle

Tai Hai Chen said:


> It's much easier to take Kiev traveling up the Dnipr river from Kherson. I think they will try that after taking Kharkov.


I thought they said they dont want Kiev. hehehehe nice try. thats proof they tried to take Kiev and failed massively. But we all knew that.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> I thought they said they dont want Kiev. hehehehe nice try. thats proof they tried to take Kiev and failed massively. But we all knew that.



If you don't succeed at first, try try and try again.


----------



## thetutle

mmr said:


> this explain why all Chinese women want white man in Canada lol.


yep, that goes a long way towards explaining it.

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## thetutle

SalarHaqq said:


> Convicted by what sort of a court, by what sort of a criminal justice?


They have Scott Ritter on video exposing himself to a person that identified herself as a 15 year old girl. It was actually a cop. 

This is the sort of a person we are talking about. It's on video. 

Even if its a corrupt system, why would you expose your naked body and get it on video to someone that says they are a 15 year old girl? does this sound normal to you? This is a very sick individual and Russians have more material on him very likely.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## CAPRICORN-88

Muhammed45 said:


> Russia destroyed Ukr S-300s
> View attachment 833245
> 
> View attachment 833247
> 
> View attachment 833248
> 
> 
> 
> Russian sources say that the S-300 launchers donated by Slovakia were also destroyed.


In exchange for free PAC Patriot by the US. 
So in other words, it means the US taxpayers are paying for all these.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513644884221210624


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Huffal said:


> Just read a few pro UKR twitter accounts claiming Chinese forces are in Ukraine fighting for Russia 🤡🤡🤡
> 
> From shooting down a Tochka U ballistic missile with a Stinger MANPAD to Chinese forces in Ukraine. Amazing. Definitely nothing like the propaganda Armenia was doing against Azerbaijan during the NK2020 war. Where apparently SSG battalion were in NK fighting armenia lol.


The smart readers will filter out all these unverified nonsenses and use their commonsense.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513429874458955783

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

jamal18 said:


> I know that you can freely buy gold in the UK, about £1500 per ounce at present.


Well, you can buy gold anywhere in the world for the gold spot price. The only issue is can you buy gold in russia at the price Russia is buying gold from its own banks. I think Russians cant buy gold at this price. Which means the ruble value is not what russia says and it means russia is just confiscating gold form its own banks. 

This tells you all about how russia is doing economically. 

How would you feel if the UK government was ting your gold and giving you half price for it?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513575176797048842


----------



## thetutle

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Leopard 1 is very vulnerable to Kornet and Metis M1 anti tank missiles. The 105 mm gun is a bit bigger than BMD-4M's 100 mm.



And newest Russian tanks can survive hits from NLAW and Javelin? So how are these worse?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> And newest Russian tanks can survive hits from NLAW and Javelin? So how are these worse?



Kornet pickup is way deadlier than any Russian tank. Kills tanks from 4+ km away with thermal imaging.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504883052203462663

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504884075223527424


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513478910297714691


Lithuania a city state with barely 2 million population should think about how to resolve its economy and its dependence on aids from the US first instead of engaging in matters that won't benefit it.

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----------



## The SC

Video of the Russian Armed Forces: a batch of BTR-4 Bucephalus, which was assembled mainly from foreign components, was captured by our army. The equipment is on the go. Soon these armored personnel carriers will join the war against Nazism..


----------



## thetutle

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Chinese have light skin and Chinese men are the most intelligent men on the planet. New generation of Chinese men are also tall, average 5'10". I'm 5'10". If anything, all women crave Chinese men these days.


So when was the last time you went on a date with a white woman? Let me guess.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> So when was the last time you went on a date with a white woman? Let me guess.



I'm married. Geez Louise. Try harder next time when you try to make fun of me, little Bosnian. Oh yeah, that's what Chinese call Bosnians because Bosnia is so small compared to China 









List of countries and dependencies by area - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## The SC

Ukrainians publish footage of their airport, which was bombed.

For information .. the Ukrainian authorities banned such filming, so as not to weaken the morale of their soldiers.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513579674370297856

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513671077011943425


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

🇷🇺🇺🇦 Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

▫️The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine.

💥On April 11, buried, well-protected command post of a group of Ukrainian troops in Donbass was destroyed by Kinzhal air missile system near Chasov Yar, Donetsk Region.

💥High-precision air-based missiles near Selidovo, Donetsk Region, destroyed 1 Ukrainian Tochka-U tactical missile launcher,
2 multiple rocket launchers in 1 underground shelter, 2 camouflaged concentration of weapons and military equipment and up to 40 Ukrainian nationalists.

💥A base camp of the Right Sector terrorist organization has been destroyed near Novogrodovka, Donetsk Region. 

💥During the day, high-precision ground-based missiles in Popasnaya, Novozvanovka and Zolotoe, Donetsk Region, destroyed 1 battalion command and observation post, 3 company strong points, 2 company tactical groups of the Ukrainian 24th Mechanized Brigade and Territorial Defence Brigade, as well as 2 areas of military equipment concentration. 

📊In total, up to 300 Ukrainian fighters, over 50 armoured fighting vehicles and up to 25 vehicles of various purposes were destroyed as a result of the strikes in these areas. 

💥Russian air defence means shot down 1 Ukrainian Su-27 aircraft in the air near Sinelnikovo, Dnepropetrovsk region. 

✈️💥Operational-tactical aviation hit 42 military assets of Ukraine. Among them: 3 command posts, 2 radars for illumination and guidance, 1 fuel depot, as well as 35 strong points and areas of Ukrainian military equipment concentration. 

📊In total, 130 aircfaft and 99 helicopters, 243 anti-aircraft missile systems S-300, Buk-M1, Osa AKM, 441 unmanned aerial vehicles, 2,132 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 241 multiple launch rocket systems, 913 field artillery and mortars, as well as 2,028 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing 
@mod_russia_en

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## thetutle

Tai Hai Chen said:


> I'm married. Geez Louise. Try harder next time when you try to make fun of me, little Bosnian. Oh yeah, that's what Chinese call Bosnians because Bosnia is so small compared to China


I think you demonstrate very well why all the stereotypes that exist.



The SC said:


> The Russian Defense Ministry threatens Slovakia 🇸🇰 that it will not be spared from punishment after Ukraine handed over the S-300 missile systems to Ukraine 🇺🇦


Why are they so upset, they already destroyed the Slovak s300?


----------



## thetutle

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Lithuania a city state with barely 2 million population should think about how to resolve its economy and its dependence on aids from the US first instead of engaging in matters that won't benefit it.


Lithuania is about to become a NATO fortress.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513573020408942595


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

thetutle said:


> Lithuania is about to become a NATO fortress.



The truth is she may wished to be but she can't.
Russia, the giant neighbour is just next door. 

NATO military advisors will all be sacked if it ever happened. 

And all of of NATO finest equipment there will be shipped to Moscow.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## mmr

Tai Hai Chen said:


> I'm married. Geez Louise. Try harder next time when you try to make fun of me, little Bosnian. Oh yeah, that's what Chinese call Bosnians because Bosnia is so small compared to China
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List of countries and dependencies by area - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


What a troll. Shameless.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513573020408942595


Wow. You are quite up to date with the latest stories. 

The UKR forces held up in Azovstal Steelworks are giving up and surrendering.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## mmr

thetutle said:


> Lithuania is about to become a NATO fortress.


You really think pathetic Russian army has the ball to tocuh a nato country lol.

Its all bark no bite.

Nato will make russia bankrupt shit hole without even fire a single bullet.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513573020408942595




Russian MOD's English channel in Telegram also confirmed the 160 Ukrainian soldiers who surrendered in Mariupol.

https://****/intelslava/24954
"160 Marines of the Armed Forces of Ukraine simultaneously surrendered in Mariupol

They all left Azovstal plant in the morning

Made the right choice"


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Makes me wonder why *NATO and the US up to this point are only using Ukraine as a proxy and not directly involved. *


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513501356618928131
The English Telegram of the Russian Ministry of Defense confirmed it. 

https://****/intelslava/24951
"*The Russian army captured one of the most powerful fortified areas of the Armed Forces of Ukraine near Izyum
The tankers who occupied Kamenka received awards. Our troops are breaking through the defenses in this area of the Kharkiv region in order to break through to the rear of the APU grouping in the Donbass and take it into the cauldron*."


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Russian MOD's English channel in Telegram also confirmed the 160 Ukrainian soldiers who surrendered in Mariupol.
> 
> https://****/intelslava/24954
> "160 Marines of the Armed Forces of Ukraine simultaneously surrendered in Mariupol
> 
> They all left Azovstal plant in the morning
> 
> Made the right choice"


For dear life.

They never expected this since they were the aggressor in Dombass all this while aince 2014 and were told that *NATO and the US will come to their rescue if Russia dares to invade. 

The Russian did just that and left the main army at home to wait for them. *

That is why *Zalensky openly condemned NaTO. Broken promises. *

Now they have learned a bitter lesson in life.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513591324334829580


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

AFAIK Russia has only send their National Guards to Ukraine.

*Their mission as told by President Putin, to denazify Eastern Ukraine where genocides were occurring without being reported in the Western MSM. *

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513611129548910592


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

One news I just read but could not be verified is: 

The US continue to silently buy a lot of Russian Oil and Gas and they reaped a huge profit selling them back to EU nations. 

Japan and South Korea are still importing Russia Oil and Gas thru Sokol..

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513543203768655885

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2 | Sad Sad:
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## KAL-EL

thetutle said:


> So when was the last time you went on a date with a white woman? Let me guess.



Last time I believe it was a very romantic McDonald's date.

I believe he even let her get an extra Happy Meal

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## Wergeland

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> For dear life.
> 
> They never expected this since they were the aggressor in Dombass all this while aince 2014 and were told that *NATO and the US will come to their rescue if Russia dares to invade.
> 
> The Russian did just that and left the main army at home to wait for them. *
> 
> That is why *Zalensky openly condemned NaTO. Broken promises. *
> 
> Now they have learned a bitter lesson in life.



I am happy with NATO not setting boots on the ground in Ukraine.

NATO should have been a defence organization. Its the core philosophy that made it successful. After the exapnsion of NATO its rationale and core philosophy was watered down. NATO became a toy for warmongers rather than peacemakers and defenders.

A bufferzone between Russia and Western Europe is in the interest of Western Europe.

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## DF41

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513501356618928131
> The English Telegram of the Russian Ministry of Defense confirmed it.
> 
> https://****/intelslava/24951
> "*The Russian army captured one of the most powerful fortified areas of the Armed Forces of Ukraine near Izyum*
> *The tankers who occupied Kamenka received awards. Our troops are breaking through the defenses in this area of the Kharkiv region in order to break through to the rear of the APU grouping in the Donbass and take it into the cauldron*."


I wear this Tshirt with pride and as salute to bravery of Russia in ending the Nazis of Ukraine

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## thetutle

Wergeland said:


> A bufferzone between Russia and Western Europe is in the interest of Western Europe.


People of Eastern Europe dont want to be a buffer. They want their own security.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Wood




----------



## sammuel

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513622583907913742



Army of mercenaries.

~


----------



## Type59

The elite troops of Ukraine are about to be overrun. Ammunition been depleted and feel they been betrayed.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Wood said:


>


 That is just a matter of opinion.

Perhaps the real reason is the Armata tanks are not deployed is because they in service with the Russia main army.

Confirming the fact that those Russian units despatched to Ukraine are just Russian National Guards.

BTW a good number of Abram M1A2 reputed to be the best of the best in the world as claimed by the USA themselves that were used by Saudi Kingdom were destroyed by the Yemeni resistance fighters.

And so were the German Leopard 2.

There are enough evidences in circulation in the internet.


----------



## letsrock

thetutle said:


> People of Eastern Europe dont want to be a buffer. They want their own security.


That will come only when they have statemanship to make peace with russia.

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## Menthol

jamal18 said:


> Excellent interview with the Hungarian foreign minister. Touches on gas situation in Europe.
> Also Hungarian attitude to the conflict. They do not want Nato to be involved in Ukraine, and the war is kept in the Ukraine.



I think Europe as a whole, doesn't want this war nor any conflict with Russia.

They want cooperation and friendship.

But Anglo-Saxons push the conflict and war on them.

Now, like it or not, Europe must accept it and say YES, they want the conflict, the terror, and destruction.

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## sammuel

DF41 said:


> I wear this Tshirt with pride and as salute to bravery of Russia in ending the Nazis of Ukraine
> 
> View attachment 833483





Z for Zorro ?








No. Z for Zelensky !









~

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

Muhammed45 said:


> Russia destroyed Ukr S-300s
> View attachment 833245
> 
> View attachment 833247
> 
> View attachment 833248
> 
> 
> 
> Russian sources say that the S-300 launchers donated by Slovakia were also destroyed.



Those highly publicized S-300s, donated by Slovenia,Czech Republic, and others are being taken down before they're used. So it seems the publicity in the Western news was a good thing for the Russians. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513591251249074178

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## CAPRICORN-88

Viet said:


> It’s not Putin that starts the war. It’s Anglo Saxon? Why not the Nicolaus?
> 
> 
> Stop talking shit.
> Mariupol still standing.
> 
> Now the donez separatist chief Bassurin says he wants to use chemical weapons. His troops will suffer too much casualties otherwise when storming the underground bunkers.


Stop trolling Khmer Krom and go home.

Since you have been repeatedly told that you neither understand what you are reading nor have the IQ to do so.

The war in Ukraine is not a subject fot gambling where you Khmer Krom places your bet.

It does not concern you.

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## DF41

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Stop trolling Khmer Krom and go home.
> 
> Since you repeatedly told ypu neither understand what you are reading nor have the IQ to do so.
> 
> The war in Ukraine is not a subject fot gambling where you Khmer Krom places your bet.
> 
> It does not concern you.




I salute and admire your tolerance to those kind of lunatics who love the sound of their own voices or their words which are just garbage regurgitated from the rot that they read and absorb.

I threw him (and quite a few others like him) into the cesspit.
Never to see the kind of 💩 that only they can conjure up with.

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## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513777051945340930


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513633649144520711

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513743422187786241


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513793259528671233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513752861989126148


----------



## Ali_Baba

jamal18 said:


> Some truth. However there have been strange events in the steel works in Mariupol. Several extremely risky attempts to get certain people out of the steel works. The Ukrainians have lost several helicopters on these very risky missions. Lately a civilian ship tried to land near the steel mill and was stopped and captured by the Russian navy.



If there are 5,000 Ukrainian troops then there will also be senior UKR commanders - how do you think they would evacuate wounded soldiers if not by air or sea?


----------



## Foinikas

Chechens free captives at Azovstal. The old women are obviously grateful and hug them with tears

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## Foinikas

Oldman1 said:


> LOL! Thats ironic. Calling someone actually fighting in Ukraine a keyboard warrior.


How do you know he's actually fighting? Maybe he's just posting all day.


----------



## Ich

Viet said:


> Even Germany’s traditional pacific party Die Grünen is for delivery of everything Ukraine needs.



The "greens party" in Germany never was pacifistic. They did the illegal war of aggression on Serbia in 1999, officially told lies about the situation in Kosovo. It was the first war of aggression by Germany since ww2. Even the at that time minister of defence, Rudolf Scharping, told in an interview 3 years later that they fabricated the media stories and lied.

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## Foinikas

thetutle said:


> So you admit nazis are really bad. Did you know in WW2 the grand mufti of Jerusalem was good friends with hitler.


Do YOU support their decision to form the Handschar and Kama Divisions?


----------



## jamal18

Strong Rumours that US general Coultier captured by the Russians in Mariupol.

Very recently another two Ukrainian helicopters shot down attempting a rescue from the city.

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## bobo6661

jamal18 said:


> Strong Rumours that US general Coultier captured by the Russians in Mariupol.
> 
> Very recently another two Ukrainian helicopters shot down attempting a rescue from the city.


On April 5, one day after he was alleged to have been captured, Cloutier shared photos from an event in Turkey to his LinkedIn profile. One commenter responding to the post asked Cloutier about the rumors that he had been taken captive by Russian forces.









PolitiFact - No, NATO Allied Land Command leader wasn’t captured by Russians in Ukraine


The Russian invasion of Ukraine has sparked another baseless internet rumor, this time about the alleged capture of a to




www.politifact.com

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## Trango Towers

jamal18 said:


> Strong Rumours that US general Coultier captured by the Russians in Mariupol.
> 
> Very recently another two Ukrainian helicopters shot down attempting a rescue from the city.


I really hope this is true but shocked if it is. 
I will bet my left foot western special forces are operating in Ukraine

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513632594436542474

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1


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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513827494125883395

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## dbc

jamal18 said:


> Strong Rumours that US general Coultier captured by the Russians in Mariupol.
> 
> Very recently another two Ukrainian helicopters shot down attempting a rescue from the city.



His doppelgänger was recently in Turkey..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511631680582393856


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513788137742663683

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## Foinikas

Ich said:


> The "greens party" in Germany never was pacifistic. They did the illegal war of aggression on Serbia in 1999, officially told lies about the situation in Kosovo. It was the first war of aggression by Germany since ww2. Even the at that time minister of defence, Rudolf Scharping, told in an interview 3 years later that they fabricated the media stories and lied.


Finally,somebody said it!

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## thetutle

Foinikas said:


> Do YOU support their decision to form the Handschar and Kama Divisions?


I don't know much about Kama division, but the 13th SS division and the 7th SS division both had a lot of inhabitants from Bosnia in it. I am pretty neutral about it. the people living at the time joined in great numbers obviously because they were sick and tired of living under a Serbian so called "king" who was really a pig farmer. 

The Palestinians also supported the Nazis, and they got denazified after the war by hosting Israel, and I suppose the nazi haters here support this. I dont think having nazis in your country requires the destruction of that country. 

Nazis are just another group of extremists amongst many extremists on all sides.


----------



## Type59

British fighter ‘surrenders to Russians after running out of food’


The former care worker from Nottinghamshire could become the first British prisoner of war in the Ukraine conflict.




metro.co.uk





Russians won't release him. They gonna parade him around.


----------



## Meengla

Menthol said:


> I think Europe as a whole, doesn't want this war nor any conflict with Russia.
> 
> They want cooperation and friendship.
> 
> But Anglo-Saxons push the conflict and war on them.
> 
> Now, like it or not, Europe must accept it and say YES, they want the conflict, the terror, and destruction.



Correct.
And even a senior American officer like Colonel Macgregor said something like '...the war is largely driven by us [America] and maybe a the UK a bit; they can go back to their islands'.
The narrative about this war changes totally online and here if and when America decides. There is no 'the West' here though so many here are jumping up and down about 'the West'.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513867987530489860

US armor and self propelled artillery

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## mmr

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513827494125883395


He change his story daily as more of his man getting killed. 

will do anything to hold on to power.

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513867987530489860
> 
> US armor and self propelled artillery


Are these taken to Poland or Ukraine?


----------



## Ich

" Russia ‘using weapons smuggled by Iran from Iraq against Ukraine’" 

Western media are such shitheads 









Russia ‘using weapons smuggled by Iran from Iraq against Ukraine’


Iraqi militias and others say undercover networks being used to supply materiel such as RPGs and anti-tank missiles




www.theguardian.com

Reactions: Love Love:
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## bobo6661

Wood said:


> Are these taken to Poland or Ukraine?


Gniezno like in the middle of Poland look like movien east

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513888434502393858

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513892948953415683

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## Paul2

Wood said:


> Are these taken to Poland or Ukraine?



Likely to somewhere in Europe, or Poland itself.

US, by the way, has tons of written off M109s waiting to be sold for scrap.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513885786671828996

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513886424952623116

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513886528757501954

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513886940889767946

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513894633679507461


Paul2 said:


> Likely to somewhere in Europe, or Poland itself.
> 
> US, by the way, has tons of written off M109s waiting to be sold for scrap.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506148419034705927

Can't wait for the M1299s. First battalion should be equipped by the end of 2023.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513911676332085258


----------



## jamal18

bobo6661 said:


> On April 5, one day after he was alleged to have been captured, Cloutier shared photos from an event in Turkey to his LinkedIn profile. One commenter responding to the post asked Cloutier about the rumors that he had been taken captive by Russian forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PolitiFact - No, NATO Allied Land Command leader wasn’t captured by Russians in Ukraine
> 
> 
> The Russian invasion of Ukraine has sparked another baseless internet rumor, this time about the alleged capture of a to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.politifact.com


Appreciate the info.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513662987462193154


----------



## Wergeland

jamal18 said:


> Strong Rumours that US general Coultier captured by the Russians in Mariupol.
> 
> Very recently another two Ukrainian helicopters shot down attempting a rescue from the city.



Tbh i really hope it isnt true because it gonna escalate a already fragile situation.

The world is on brink of third world war. Really wish for this stupid war to stop immidiately.

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## Ich

Wergeland said:


> Tbh i really hope it isnt true because it gonna escalate a already fragile situation.
> 
> The world is on brink of third world war. Really wish for this stupid war to stop immidiately.



I dont think its true cause if, they would show a vid with him in custody.

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## Viet

Russia east offensive not going well.
The assault of elite 4th tank division with modern T80 tanks as spearhead stalls.

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## Malik Alpha

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513662987462193154


This low life comedian loves to give example to Israel. I hope he gets the same treatment Israelis give to Palestinians.


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

Wergeland said:


> Tbh i really hope it isnt true because it gonna escalate a already fragile situation.
> 
> The world is on brink of third world war. Really wish for this stupid war to stop immidiately.







There will be no WW3. Russians can't fight. They are all talk. They are supposed to be a military superpower but have shown to be anything but. Disappointing performance by them.


----------



## nang2

Ich said:


> I dont think its true cause if, they would show a vid with him in custody.


A lot of speculations around NATO officers who may be trapped in Mariupol. http://thesaker.is/open-tread-on-the-war-in-the-ukraine/ Nothing concrete yet.


----------



## Viet

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> There will be no WW3. Russians can't fight. They are all talk. They are supposed to be a military superpower but have shown to be anything but. Disappointing performance by them.


They are not hunting nazi in Ukraine.
They are hunting women shoes, televisions, laptop, iphones, washing machine, Nutella.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513924932975185925

Ukraine attempting to flank Russian forces at Izyum.

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## Foinikas

thetutle said:


> I don't know much about Kama division, but the 13th SS division and the 7th SS division both had a lot of inhabitants from Bosnia in it. I am pretty neutral about it. the people living at the time joined in great numbers obviously because they were sick and tired of living under a Serbian so called "king" who was really a pig farmer.
> 
> The Palestinians also supported the Nazis, and they got denazified after the war by hosting Israel, and I suppose the nazi haters here support this. I dont think having nazis in your country requires the destruction of that country.
> 
> Nazis are just another group of extremists amongst many extremists on all sides.


Interesting how Bosnian Muslims of the Handschar and Ukrainians of the 1st Ukrainian Division both mutineed. Also the Albanian Skanderbeg Division was completely worthless when it came to combat skill and discipline and was eventually disbanded by the Germans.



Viet said:


> They are not hunting nazi in Ukraine.
> They are hunting women shoes, televisions, laptop, iphones, washing machine, Nutella.


I think you're a bit obsessed with Nutella. You probably heard about it once and you keep repeating it.


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

Viet said:


> They are not hunting nazi in Ukraine.
> They are hunting women shoes, televisions, laptop, iphones, washing machine, Nutella.





I am not anti-Russian but the performance of the Russian military and their equipment has been SHOCKINGLY poor for a superpower.


----------



## Viet

Wergeland said:


> Tbh i really hope it isnt true because it gonna escalate a already fragile situation.
> 
> The world is on brink of third world war. Really wish for this stupid war to stop immidiately.


Not WW 3.
It’s more Russia against 30 NATO countries. 33 if Sweden, Finland, Serbia join the pact in summer.


----------



## Elvin

thetutle said:


> I don't know much about Kama division, but the 13th SS division and the 7th SS division both had a lot of inhabitants from Bosnia in it. I am pretty neutral about it. the people living at the time joined in great numbers obviously because they were sick and tired of living under a Serbian so called "king" who was really a pig farmer.
> 
> The Palestinians also supported the Nazis, and they got denazified after the war by hosting Israel, and I suppose the nazi haters here support this. I dont think having nazis in your country requires the destruction of that country.
> 
> Nazis are just another group of extremists amongst many extremists on all sides.



Not really true, the 13th handzar division had a total of 3800 men, which is peanuts. Many Bosniaks in the division fled once they reached free lands in France (held under the resistance). A good video sums up the reason for the division and what occurred.


----------



## Wergeland

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> There will be no WW3. Russians can't fight. They are all talk. They are supposed to be a military superpower but have shown to be anything but. Disappointing performance by them.



Russian bear is sluggish and unpredictable. 
Its like a ocean going super tanker. Takes long time and a lot of energy to set in motion, but once started its almost unstoppable and has to run out its course.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## MajesticPug

sammuel said:


> That would never happen but for Putin's invasion . Public opinion in Finland was very much against it . But now it seems most of the public support this move , for obvious reasons.
> 
> 
> Finland to clarify next steps on possible NATO entry within weeks​
> HELSINKI, April 7 (Reuters) - Finland will clarify next steps regarding a possible decision to seek NATO membership in the coming weeks, Foreign Minister Pekka Haavisto told reporters after attending a NATO foreign ministers' meeting in Brussels on Thursday.
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finland to clarify next steps on possible NATO entry within weeks
> 
> 
> Finland will clarify next steps regarding a possible decision to seek NATO membership in the coming weeks, Foreign Minister Pekka Haavisto told reporters after attending a NATO foreign ministers' meeting in Brussels on Thursday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com



This will very likely draw Finland into an Eurasian war when NATO further expands into Asia to China's doorstep. I'm not for or against whatever a European or Asian chooses for itself. It's a matter common karma. This is likely if Russia loses the Ukraine war and subsequently falls into disarrays or even divided up by the West. Some of Russia's parts will join NATO and make NATO bolder to expand into Asia.


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

Wergeland said:


> Russian bear is sluggish and unpredictable.
> Its like a ocean going super tanker. Takes long time and a lot of energy to set in motion, but once started its almost unstoppable and has to run out its course.





So people keep saying yet they still keep getting hammered. Some super power they turned out to be...........


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513928788987596801

7,000 Javelins is more than enough to destroy most of Russian armor.

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## Wergeland

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> So people keep saying yet they still keep getting hammered. Some super power they turned out to be...........



Russia lost against Japan before WW1 and was hammered during WW1 and WW2. Still its here kicking while powers like Britain, France, and even Germany are nowhere near.

Russia is a different soul, as its a combined soul of the European and Asian. 

But still, if history is any measure, rarely a empire lasts longer than 250-300 years. Russian prime was during Peter the Great and Catarina the Great. In the future Russia likely will continue to dimish in power, with some short periods of renaissance here and there, but overally on decline. America will also follow a similar decline.


----------



## Viet

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> I am not anti-Russian but the performance of the Russian military and their equipment has been SHOCKINGLY poor for a superpower.


I used to be a fan of Russia.
Russia military sucks. There must be a reason for the poor performance. One reason is Putin is a KGB agent he is not from military. He has generals as yesmen they are too afraid to tell Putin any critics. They don’t want to end in gulags.
But seriously I sometimes think that’s chinese plot. To weaken Russia. Both Russia and China military do lots of exercises. What did they do in exercises? Do they stage war games or just hug each other?


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

Wergeland said:


> Russia lost against Japan before WW1 and was hammered during WW1 and WW2. Still its here kicking while powers like Britain, France, and even Germany are nowhere near.
> 
> Russia is a different soul, as its a combined soul of the European and Asian.
> 
> But still, if history is any measure, rarely a empire lasts longer than 250-300 years. Russian prime was during Peter the Great and Catarina the Great. In the future Russia likely will continue to dimish in power, with some short periods of renaissance here and there, but overally on decline. America will also follow a similar decline.






I am NOT anti-Russian but their performance has been shocking. Perhaps their fortunes may change in the coming weeks/months. Who knows.


----------



## Ich

nang2 said:


> A lot of speculations around NATO officers who may be trapped in Mariupol. http://thesaker.is/open-tread-on-the-war-in-the-ukraine/ Nothing concrete yet.



Yes, whereas i think there are NATO officers (french, german, uk) in Mariupol. The helicopters which tried werent flew for fun. But if we will ever see any proof i dont know. Maybe pow exchange behind the curtain.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513866994872983555

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513863555724058631

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513874962947452932

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513936980765294603


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513285241858834449

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513895966964920324


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513889986906669062

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513946349632376833

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513775536987901962

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513706919818678281


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513774050245591046

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513866916049436673


----------



## sammuel

|~



Could this be the last war ?

I think this war is a different war than what we have seen in the past.

First of all in how the war effects the whole world. 

The most notable thing is how clips from the war are streaming from the fighting, taken by soldier in the field on iphones ,and can be in a matter of seconds put online . This war is broadcasted live into every home.

This is different in how it effects the whole world in some way or another. Seems like it is a direct and natural continuing of the the Corona virus, In the same sense that it effects every one . War , like the Corona is just another source of Plague.

May this war , be the last war.


~


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513821132536922116

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Wergeland

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513285241858834449
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513895966964920324



Now, that is one of the most horrible ways to die. I felt sick in my stomach from watching tatt.


----------



## nang2

Wergeland said:


> Now, that is one of the most horrible ways to die. I felt sick in my stomach from watching tatt.


I felt the same way. He should have warned about the graphic content.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513777903099600899

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513799420751585280


nang2 said:


> I felt the same way. He should have warned about the graphic content.


There are no dead soldiers displayed ..just a blast..


----------



## jamal18

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> I am NOT anti-Russian but their performance has been shocking. Perhaps their fortunes may change in the coming weeks/months. Who knows.


The end of the current battle in the Donbass will give a clearer understanding of their ability.

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## The SC

Major of the Ukrainian Armed Forces Rostislav Lomtiev, who served as political officer in the 36th Marine Brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, was arrested in Mariupol.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513820788025135108


----------



## Wergeland

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> I am NOT anti-Russian but their performance has been shocking. Perhaps their fortunes may change in the coming weeks/months. Who knows.



I am neither for or against Russia. Its a country that really dosent matter to me personally, but still i try to learn from history and how nations usually do their business.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513813298805882880



Spoiler: Graphic



https://twitter.com/abunin/status/1513938951559688194

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513950686404349952

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513802946638761988

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513803118923890688


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

He is begging them for weapons, but at the same time doesn't want to meet with the German president. The irony!



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513896403218665486

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513895542060949506

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513914698797920258


----------



## Soldier35

The work of Russian tanks to destroy snipers and grenade launchers of Ukraine, who are holed up in buildings. A Chechen soldier suppresses a firing point of the Ukrainian army with a grenade launcher.

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## nang2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513950686404349952


I can imagine the excitement they have.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513955586810986496

Russia has 2,800 visually confirmed losses

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## nang2

This news is interesting:

https://****/intelslava/25047
OK, it is from Telegram so you would have to know its hostname, which is masked out by the forum.
It says: More than 1000 Marines of the Armed Forces of Ukraine today surrendered in Mariupol


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513946349632376833











Zelenskyy says Ukraine captured pro-Putin politician Viktor Medvedchuk who escaped house arrest


Zelenskyy posted a photo on social media showing a disheveled Medvedchuk seated by a radiator clasped in handcuffs.




www.cnbc.com







> Medvedchuk, the leader of a pro-Russian opposition party in Ukraine and a staunch opponent of Kyiv’s appeals to join NATO, has extremely close ties to Russian President Vladimir Putin, who is godfather to Medvedchuk’s daughter.
> 
> Some experts have speculated that if Putin had planned to install a puppet leader after toppling Ukraine’s government, Medvedchuk would be on the short list.


----------



## nang2

Wood said:


> Zelenskyy says Ukraine captured pro-Putin politician Viktor Medvedchuk who escaped house arrest
> 
> 
> Zelenskyy posted a photo on social media showing a disheveled Medvedchuk seated by a radiator clasped in handcuffs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com


Here is the response from Gonzalo Lire:


> Viktor Medvedchuk—opposition leader in Ukraine, personal friend of Putin—was put under house arrest some months ago by the Zelensky regime on trumped up charges.
> 
> He was said to have escaped shortly after the start of the conflict, on February 28 to be exact. Many said that he had been spirited away to Russia, and that he was waiting there for the end of the conflict.
> 
> Today the Zelensky regime claims to have “recaptured” him.
> 
> Bullshit. The word I’m hearing is, Mr. Medvedchuk never escaped—Zelensky regime thugs snatched him from his home and put him in an SBU dungeon as a hostage.
> 
> The fact that he is being shown now in public proves the Zelensky regime wants to leverage him—maybe swap him for whoever the Russians captured at Mariupol? A certain American general that we know of?


https://****/realCRP/4306?single

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

▫️The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine. 

💥Russian artillery units hit 6 strong points of units of 24th Ukrainian Separate Mechanized Brigade near Popasnaya, Lugansk Region. As a result of strikes, more than 120 military personnel of the formation, 11 armoured vehicles and 14 vehicles of various purposes were destroyed. 

✈️💥Operational-tactical aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces hit 38 military assets of Ukraine. Among them: 1 ammunition depot in Toshkivka, Lugansk Region, as well as 8 areas of concentration of Ukrainian weapons and military equipment in Glazunovka, Pyatigorskoe and Prishib, Kharkov Region. 

💥Russian Air Defence means shot down 2 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles in the air over Ochakov and Nikolaev. 

📊In total, 130 aircfaft and 99 helicopters, 244 anti-aircraft missile systems S-300, Buk-M1, Osa AKM, 445 unmanned aerial vehicles, 2,153 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 241 multiple launch rocket systems, 924 field artillery and mortars, as well as 2,063 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing 
@mod_russia_en

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513886228982161409


----------



## Ali_Baba

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513285241858834449
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513895966964920324



Looks like a Russian tank took out a whole bunch of Russian Soldiers! Wow !!! That gun blast was the last thing they saw as per the recording. The Tank had Z markings on it with no UKR flag or colouring to indicate a UKR tanks... and the soldiers seemed comfortable with that - so most certainly Russians v Russians.


----------



## nang2

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513886228982161409


Apparently, Pentagon doesn't want to ruin its reputation. So the current practice is to let the media run its mouth without confirmation from Pentagon.



Ali_Baba said:


> Looks like a Russian tank took out a whole bunch of Russian Soldiers! Wow !!! That gun blast was the last thing they saw as per the recording.


Notice the blue band

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513860303498403850


----------



## JonAsad

Ali_Baba said:


> Looks like a Russian tank took out a whole bunch of Russian Soldiers! Wow !!! That gun blast was the last thing they saw as per the recording. The Tank had Z markings on it with no UKR flag or colouring to indicate a UKR tanks... and the soldiers seemed comfortable with that - so most certainly Russians v Russians.


oo bhai, Ukrainian tank, Ukrainian soldiers, itna blind bhi nai hona chhaiye.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513981860510113797

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513857475019259904


Ali_Baba said:


> Looks like a Russian tank took out a whole bunch of Russian Soldiers! Wow !!! That gun blast was the last thing they saw as per the recording. The Tank had Z markings on it with no UKR flag or colouring to indicate a UKR tanks... and the soldiers seemed comfortable with that - so most certainly Russians v Russians.


Or Ukrainians v Ukrainians.. because of that BMP behind the soldiers..the Tanker might have seen it as a possible ambush..and fired ..


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513794138717790213
"Kalina", the main spokesman of the Nazi "Azov", calls for the flags and posters in the streets of the cities of the "civilized world" to demand the removal of the blockade.. Earlier he stated that the leadership of Ukraine did not answer his phone calls for two weeks.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513790690907631618

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513779261424996353

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513786987282632707

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## Vergennes

Of course the Russians will provide evidence about the claim they destroyed Slovakian S300 

Just like they claimed Wali was killed 20 minutes after getting into battle at mariupol

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513988409076948992


----------



## The SC

Urgent | NBC on a US military commander: Russia is jamming US GPS signals to Ukraine

@AJABreaking



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513842905751998464


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513804371372429318


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513992462448185350


The SC said:


> Urgent | NBC on a US military commander: Russia is jamming US GPS signals to Ukraine
> 
> @AJABreaking



This is a major development, and it explains the recent continuous successes of the Russian air force.


https://twitter.com/AJABreaking


The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513842905751998464
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513804371372429318


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

@SC, here is the link 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513833242423705601

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## Primus

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513892491031990279
Wonder whats on top of the car 🤔


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513985077847502848


----------



## The SC

The moment of the shelling of Kharkiv by the Rashists, the city is under daily shelling. Fortunately, the drivers who were at the epicenter of the explosions survived.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513593472057548810


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513727888238911492
The Bastion missiles settled here:


----------



## The SC

We have found an information treasure hidden in the tools of the son of US President Biden, and will soon reveal the criminal truth about this terrorist state..

America wanted to take over the world with lab biowarfare in Ukraine and its exclusive monopoly on the vaccine, and then subjugate the world to its arrogance and tyranny..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513728477807194114

President Putin and I have prepared a big surprise for American and Western forces.

We will again play the way they understand, but we will have good control over the game and its details.. We will surprise them incredibly..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513032238375612416

We thwarted a special operation by American and Western forces in Mariupol, who were trying to smuggle military leaders from NATO countries who fought on the side of the Nazi Azov Brigades.

There are very important details and a great success of the Russian and Chechen forces in this operation, and the Russian Ministry of Defense will provide full information in due course.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511427546310758400

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514000415800573964


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514000767316901888

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513995869296730118Unfavorable news for Russia: *exists*
Russia: Fake!

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

The new weapons pack will also include heavy artillery/howitzers and potentially unmanned drone ships and short range anti ship missiles.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514003279365259276


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514002747682607104


----------



## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> The new weapons pack will also include heavy artillery/howitzers and potentially unmanned drone ships and short range anti ship missiles.


Short range anti ship missiles?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

The Chechen mujahidiin are cleaning tunnels where Azov Neo Nazis were hiding


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513979817737207817

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513975836533313549

I’m wondering if these howitzers are heading to Ukraine.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Get Ya Wig Split



Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513971565309874176


----------



## mmr

Get Ya Wig Split said:


>


They will parade donkey on red square next year 



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514002747682607104


Ukraine needs anti ship weapons. UK and USA need to help them to end the blockade. Hopefully its coming soon.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513850159855468551

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513778534082359297


----------



## mmr

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513786745644634115


----------



## nufix

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513662987462193154



is it just me or he is increasingly channeling his Israeli and jewish identity to form his decision and act, rather than using his ukrainian one. Ukraine might end up losing a wider support if Zelensky keeps making reference to Israel as Israel is actually doing the same thing Russia is doing to his country

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Hydration

nufix said:


> is it just me or he is increasingly channeling his Israeli and jewish identity to form his decision and act, rather than using his ukrainian one. Ukraine might end up losing a wider support if Zelensky keeps making reference to Israel as Israel is actually doing the same thing Russia is doing to his country


This isnt new he also took actions against middle eastren countries to keep israels technological superiorty


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514020676566409222


----------



## Wood

Putin ‘purges’ 150 FSB agents in response to Russia’s botched war with Ukraine


A “Stalinist” mass purge of Russian secret intelligence is under way after more than 100 agents were removed from their jobs and the head of the department resp




www.thetimes.co.uk





Blame game


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514019150825467904

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513900257716977672


----------



## Oldman1

Huffal said:


> Ok armchair general sir


LOL! Yes embarrass yourself when calling someone on twitter a keyboard warrior when he's actually fighting in Ukraine.



Foinikas said:


> How do you know he's actually fighting? Maybe he's just posting all day.


Many soldiers both sides post videos.



Hydration said:


> This isnt new he also took actions against middle eastren countries to keep israels technological superiorty


Have you seen the Stugna P being used against the Russians? Look at the language. Does that look Hebrew to you?







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513995121297174539


----------



## Oldman1

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514000767316901888


Hopefully the MLRS and other artillery western or Russian design and more loitering munitions, and large drones that can carry grenades to attack tanks and other vehicles especially SAMs.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514017054805966848

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514022570957365251

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514023542630801415

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514027274869391367

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514027737039654918

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## Oldman1

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514022570957365251
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514023542630801415
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514027274869391367
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514027737039654918


Good platform, however need to deal with SAMs as well if they want them to destroy more Russian supply or vehicle columns without any resistance.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513966126396497931
Lol

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## thetutle

Foinikas said:


> Interesting how Bosnian Muslims of the Handschar and Ukrainians of the 1st Ukrainian Division both mutineed.


Communist infiltrators. They were all shot. as well as anyone that fell for their propaganda. Most people in WW2 were not there for ideological reasons. Most combatants were uneducated and very unsophisticated. Nothing much has changed. US recruits its soldiers from low income shopping malls. russia gets its soldiers from ethnic minorities from places that has no paved roads.


----------



## thetutle

Elvin said:


> Not really true, the 13th handzar division had a total of 3800 men, which is peanuts. Many Bosniaks in the division fled once they reached free lands in France (held under the resistance). A good video sums up the reason for the division and what occurred.


the division had 38,000 recruits. they didnt flee, they were shot for subversion and the division was redeployed against Yugoslav partizans, serb extremists and in the end Russians. And they were very effective. They were never involved in any anti-Semitic activities. Unfortunately by 1943 all the jews were already killed by Serbian and other extremists.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514000767316901888




So how will these helicopters cope with the potent Russian air defense systems? Just like the previous helis in the Ukrainian arsenal that has been shot down or destroyed on the ground, I doubt these Mi-17 helis would be a trouble for the Russian air force and air defense.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514007394099027976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514001386660405250
About 2,000 Ukrainian marines have surrendered in Mariupol within a week. They are usually called the elite armed forces of Ukraine.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513981017740169222

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514022570957365251
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514023542630801415
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514027274869391367
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514027737039654918




By the time these drones are out of sight, the ground-control station switches to a satellite link to control the aircraft, and the plane uses GPS to relay its position, Just like the US general confirmed this week, Russians have been jamming the GPS signals, and that means they'll kill the satellite link between the ground station and the aircraft. They'll see jam the GPS to make sure the plane can't relay its positions. In essence, these drones are sitting ducks for the Russian military. And whatever wrong assumptions that the Russians had at the start of the conflict, they've adjusted their plans now, and they're in the mode of the confronting big and powerful adversaries.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/drone-crashes/how-drones-work/

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513938371613188106

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513925067683500034

The first major interview with a serviceman from the 501st Separate Naval Infantry Battalion of the Naval Forces of Ukraine, who visited Mariupol on April 4.

"I was very disappointed with the state. We were thrown, thrown and thrown again. The whole battalion thinks...that they were like cannon fodder."


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513936701273612288


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513940110064197635


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Wow
_About 2,000 Ukrainian marines have surrendered in Mariupol within a week. They are usually called the elite armed forces of Ukraine._

This is an elite Ukrainian fighting force.

No wonder the UK News Media which were so busy propagating victories by Ukrainian forces against Russians at the begining of the war are now preparing its readers for the final defeat of Ukrainian forces there.

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## The SC

The Ukrainian FREEDOM resource published a video of Bucha, located near kyiv. It shows how military personnel of the Ukrainian Armed Forces drag the bodies of the dead from place to place for a subsequent staging.




Spoiler: Graphic



https://twitter.com/trx_guillaume/status/1513936179686776832

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## CAPRICORN-88

The SC said:


> The Ukrainian FREEDOM resource published a video of Bucha, located near kyiv. It shows how military personnel of the Ukrainian Armed Forces drag the bodies of the dead from place to place for a subsequent staging.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/trx_guillaume/status/1513936179686776832


I do believe that all these are staged in order to pin the blame on the Russian but whatever they do, it won't alter the final outcome of the war which is coming to an conclusion

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## The SC

Territorial Defense activists took a car away from a civilian

Meanwhile, the so-called Territorial Defense militants continue to do their favorite thing. A new video has appeared on the network, in which teroboronists take a car from one of the inhabitants of kyiv.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513921511823921156

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513940399609548802

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## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514019150825467904


lol good job.

good to see belarusian joining for freedom and democracy ha ha


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514059299219193863


----------



## The SC

A powerful drone appeared in service with the people's militia of the DPR
The People's Militia of the DPR continues to work with public organizations. So, the state body "VECHE" handed over to the defenders of Donbass a powerful unmanned aerial vehicle DJi

Matrce 300RTK, equipped with a camera with a thermal imager, a laser rangefinder and a powerful optical zoom, which allows you to precisely adjust the fire on enemy forces day and night, destroying the Ukrainian Nazis firing at the territory of the DNR.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513787849740623875

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## Trango Towers

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514007394099027976
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514001386660405250
> About 2,000 Ukrainian marines have surrendered in Mariupol within a week. They are usually called the elite armed forces of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513981017740169222


Will those lawyers l9ok at US crimes in Afghanistan Iraq Libya Syria Yemen Gitmo Abu gharaib .. Palestine

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## CAPRICORN-88

The SC said:


> Territorial Defense activists took a car away from a civilian
> 
> Meanwhile, the so-called Territorial Defense militants continue to do their favorite thing. A new video has appeared on the network, in which teroboronists take a car from one of the inhabitants of kyiv.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513921511823921156


Where are the Ukrainian Police and Army? Why are they not patrolling the streets and protecting the common people. 

It is so obvious to us that Kiev has lost control? 

These so-called Territorial Defense Activists are self appointed and they take laws into their own hands?

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## The SC

Training of the Ukrainian territorial defense in Kharkiv in the handling of the Carl-Gustaf M3 portable anti-tank grenade launcher (c) Sergey Bobok


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513787322210439169


CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Where are the Ukrainian Police and Army? Why are they not patrolling the streets and protecting the common people.
> 
> It is so obvious to us that Kiev has lost control?
> 
> These so-called Territorial Defense Activists are self appointed and they take laws into their own hands?


According to the same twitter thread.. It should be noted that in February Zelensky released criminals from prisons, a significant part of whom joined the ranks of the territorial defense.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513897981484937228


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513499500853276677

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513922802239389696


----------



## Oldman1

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> So how will these helicopters cope with the potent Russian air defense systems? Just like the previous helis in the Ukrainian arsenal that has been shot down or destroyed on the ground, I doubt these Mi-17 helis would be a trouble for the Russian air force and air defense.


Never know, people would say the same thing when Ukrainian helos hit Belgorod oil depot inside Russia.



CAPRICORN-88 said:


> I do believe that all these are staged in order to pin the blame on the Russian but whatever they do, it won't alter the final outcome of the war which is coming to an conclusion


Uh no, I saw that video days ago and it was dragging bodies for possible mines or booby traps on the bodies left by the Russians.


----------



## The SC

Reading the Ukrainian public pages, you find a lot of interesting things. For example, the day before yesterday I learned that we were surrounded near Izyum. I drove along the roads, I did not observe any APU buildups. Seriously speaking, the Ukrainian armed forces are of course trying to transfer reserves to Izyum, especially from the vicinity of Sumy and Kharkov. Everyone is well aware of the importance of this direction, but Slavyansk itself, targeted by the offensive, is not only a powerful fortified area, but also a city-symbol of the war that has lasted for 8 years.

Large enemy forces are concentrated in front of Sloviansk, the area is saturated with air defense, tanks and artillery. The Ukrainian Armed Forces are armed with excellent American artillery reconnaissance stations, and only the constant attacks on their RAV depots and the counter-battery work of our artels do not allow the Ukrainian armed forces to make full use of this most important asset. 

I will give a typical example of the density of battles. Near Kamenka, 2 of our downed planes and a helicopter are literally side by side, a Ukrainian Su-24 was shot down nearby, burned-out tanks and infantry fighting vehicles stand side by side, former colleagues work on Ukrainians tanks captured without even changing the Ukrainian Pixel Camouflage.

In the streets of the villages and in the forest plantations, the corpses of Ukrainian soldiers lie and no one will take them away. Every day we make prisoners, sometimes one or two, sometimes five at a time. But anyway, the foundation phase of the battle has not yet begun, the troops are maneuvering, the artillery is working, our infantry is occupying the settlements.

A few days ago, an extremely interesting happened, which was discussed by the whole group. Our Su-30 was shot down and a helicopter took off in search of the crew. I won't say the name and rank of the pilot yet, but we know each other very well personally. He flew alone, on the
Mi-8 even without cover, there was too little time, and the Ka-52s were busy with combat work.

The crew of the Mi-8 flew at a height of several meters from the ground, hiding behind the terrain and got to the Ukrainian Buk, at the level of the radar and post of command of this complex. The meeting was extremely unexpected, but the commander reacted instantly and smashed the vehicles with unguided rockets.

In Izyum itself, despite the proximity to the front line and the constant shelling, peaceful life begins to improve. The rare marauders, if caught, are severely punished, columns of humanitarian aid go every day. And it is no longer a few cars crossing the fields for the first time, but convoys in their own right.

Our doctors are helping civilians and people have started walking in the streets. Not in search of food and water, but to walk in the warm spring sun. This is the image of the moment, the main spring 2022 campaign continues and goes towards its apogee.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513513876784046080


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514068250648219648

The US is now considering giving Ukraine weapons to strike Russian airfields

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## Oldman1

The SC said:


> Training of the Ukrainian territorial defense in Kharkiv in the handling of the Carl-Gustaf M3 portable anti-tank grenade launcher (c) Sergey Bobok
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513787322210439169


Think they will still try to take the second largest city? They are having a hard time doing it so far.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514068250648219648
> 
> The US is now considering giving Ukraine weapons to strike Russian airfields


Hmm I'm assuming MLRS with ATACMS? Be good to hit the airfields in Belarus besides Russia as well.

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## F-22Raptor

Oldman1 said:


> Think they will still try to take the second largest city? They are having a hard time doing it so far.
> 
> 
> Hmm I'm assuming MLRS with ATACMS? Be good to hit the airfields in Belarus besides Russia as well.




I’d give them 50-75 M270s with ATACMs. The Army is transitioning to the Precision Strike Missile anyways. Put the ATACMS to use.


----------



## Oldman1

F-22Raptor said:


> I’d give them 50-75 M270s with ATACMs. The Army is transitioning to the Precision Strike Missile anyways. Put the ATACMS to use.


I would give them old Tomahawks, not the newer ones. Ground launch is possible.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513845737825648644



Spoiler: Graphic



https://twitter.com/MarQs__/status/1513801183063949313




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513923100936712199


----------



## F-22Raptor

Oldman1 said:


> I would give them old Tomahawks, not the newer ones. Ground launch is possible.



The US almost certainly wouldn’t give them Tomahawks.

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## Oldman1

F-22Raptor said:


> The US almost certainly wouldn’t give them Tomahawks.


Maybe, but knowing the Ukrainians, they make their own if not provided.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513871126958645257


----------



## Primus

Oldman1 said:


> LOL! Yes embarrass yourself when calling someone on twitter a keyboard warrior when he's actually fighting in Ukraine.


Ok lol. 

That 'person actually fighting in Ukraine' has been posting inaccurate information. The most recent being the UKR T64 tank conducting blue on blue fire on a groupbof UKR soldiers. 

He said it was a group of Russian soldiers that were killed by a captured RUS t72b3 by UKR. Dudes full of it

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## Oldman1

Huffal said:


> Ok lol.
> 
> That 'person actually fighting in Ukraine' has been posting inaccurate information. The most recent being the UKR T64 tank conducting blue on blue fire on a groupbof UKR soldiers.
> 
> He said it was a group of Russian soldiers that were killed by a captured RUS t72b3 by UKR. Dudes full of it


Even soldiers can be wrong when commenting on other videos or spreading propaganda.


----------



## Primus

Oldman1 said:


> Even soldiers can be wrong when commenting on other videos or spreading propaganda.


Or perhaps he is full of shit

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## Clutch

Trango Towers said:


> Will those lawyers l9ok at US crimes in Afghanistan Iraq Libya Syria Yemen Gitmo Abu gharaib .. Palestine



Never... Those are the 3rd world brown people they like to kill....

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## Oldman1

Huffal said:


> Or perhaps he is full of shit


They say the same for others who are fighting in Ukraine. For example a well known American fighting in Ukraine James Vasquez. People thought he's full of shit as well.


----------



## Primus

Oldman1 said:


> They say the same for others who are fighting in Ukraine. For example a well known American fighting in Ukraine James Vasquez. People thought he's full of shit as well.


No hes actually there fighting. That i accept. But this dude, he is a perfect keyboard warrior pretending to be a soldier


----------



## sammuel

~


comedy break :

Tonight with John Oliver - Russian state TV :​









This also goes into to comedy section. Funny or sad , you'll judge. Anyway this is what the Russian public are fed. Hope they have their VPN's in order . . .


Vladimir Solovyov , on tantrum or maybe possessed ? :
















~


----------



## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia has strategically lost. They have little ability to compete with the US, especially now.
> 
> 
> China has 4X the population of the US and still remains $6-7T behind in GDP, and the average American is far more productive than Chinese. The US has the most innovative companies in the world, with the most unicorns as well. Capital flows to the most innovative companies. Over 60 have been created so far this year alone. US financial markets are the deepest and most liquid in the world.
> 
> China will never achieve the total comprehensive power of the United States.
> 
> Back to the topic



Russia is about to take over Mariupol. That is only a matter of time now.

You focus on Russia bud. China is way beyond your scope right now.

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## Oldman1

Dalit said:


> Russia is about to take over Mariupol. That is only a matter of time now.
> 
> You focus on Russia bud. China is way beyond your scope right now.


China isn't doing anything on Taiwan that's for sure. Not when Russia is having a hard time with Ukraine which is next door.


----------



## Dalit

Oldman1 said:


> China isn't doing anything on Taiwan that's for sure. Not when Russia is having a hard time with Ukraine which is next door.



Yet your crazy media and professional analysts claim otherwise. The anti-China propaganda is in overdrive and China is supposedly feeling emboldened by Russian actions.

Russia is taking its time. The fact that Russia is still fully involved in Ukraine should be enough indication. As predicted, Russia won't rest until its objectives are met. Russian rouble has recovered and it is able to finance its war without a sweat. US/European capitals are still buying Russian gas and oil. It is business as usual.

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## Oldman1

Dalit said:


> Yet your crazy media and professional analysts claim otherwise.
> 
> Russia is taking its time. The fact that Russia is still fully involved in Ukraine should be enough indication. As predicted, Russia won't rest until its objectives are met.


Putin doesn't have a choice now since he failed to take Kiev no matter what anyone else says. Russia is not taking its time, he wants a victory by May 9th. What he does after if nothing changes, that's up to him.


----------



## Dalit

Oldman1 said:


> Putin doesn't have a choice now since he failed to take Kiev no matter what anyone else says. Russia is not taking its time, he wants a victory by May 9th. What he does after if nothing changes, that's up to him.



I am not concerned about Russia. Russia will continue to do whatever it wants to do.

I am more concerned with US inability to isolate Russia. You have reached your maximum threshold, haven't you? We have been hearing threats to embargo Russian oil and gas for a long time. Nothing has happened yet on that front. It is obvious why.

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## Oldman1

Dalit said:


> I am not concerned about Russia. Russia will continue to do whatever it wants to do.
> 
> I am more concerned with US inability to isolate Russia. You have reached your maximum threshold, haven't you? We have been hearing threats to embargo Russian oil and gas for a long time. Nothing has happened yet on that front.


Wouldn't worry too much on that end. As long as the weapons are flowing in, the Russians will realize its a very costly war for them.


----------



## Dalit

Oldman1 said:


> Wouldn't worry too much on that end. As long as the weapons are flowing in, the Russians will realize its a very costly war for them.



Yes, we witnessed this flow of weapons experiment elsewhere too if I remember correctly. In fact you had boots on the ground and military bases too, right? Your coalition fought for a couple of decades. Long enough, right? It didn't go too well in the end for the US and its coalition.

Well, good luck anyway.


----------



## Oldman1

Dalit said:


> Yes, we witnessed this flow of weapons experiment elsewhere too if I remember correctly. In fact you had boots on the ground and military bases too, right? Your coalition fought for a couple of decades. Long enough, right? It didn't go too well in the end for the US and its coalition.
> 
> Well, good luck anyway.


Yeah I remember what happened to the Russians during the 1980s in Afghanistan when U.S. provided weapons and Pakistan provided money and training. You saw what happened right?


----------



## Dalit

Oldman1 said:


> Yeah I remember what happened to the Russians during the 1980s in Afghanistan when U.S. provided weapons and Pakistan provided money and training. You saw what happened right?


You also remember what happened most recently, right?


----------



## Bleek

F-22Raptor said:


> the average American is far more productive than Chinese.


Being this oblivious to reality will be the reason for America's fall as the leading power. It's not about if anymore, it's about when. 

Perhaps you're in denial.


----------



## Oldman1

Dalit said:


> You also remember what happened most recently, right?


Yeah, you see one side that don't want to fight and another does. So during the 1980s Afghans fought hard against the Russians. Recent conflict the Afghan Army didn't. In Ukraine-Russia you see Ukrainians fighting hard. You saw in Mariupol how long that fight has been going. Ukrainian troops only giving up because of out of ammo and supplies. So...imagine trying to take on the rest of Ukraine like that. Russians already close to losing 20k troops in almost 50 days. That's more than what they lost in Afghanistan during the 1980s for 10 years.


----------



## Dalit

Oldman1 said:


> Yeah, you see one side that don't want to fight and another does. So during the 1980s Afghans fought hard against the Russians. Recent conflict the Afghan Army didn't. In Ukraine-Russia you see Ukrainians fighting hard. You saw in Mariupol how long that fight has been going. Ukrainian troops only giving up because of out of ammo and supplies. So...imagine trying to take on the rest of Ukraine like that. Russians already close to losing 20k troops in almost 50 days. That's more than what they lost in Afghanistan during the 1980s for 10 years.



Forget Afghanistan. All other wars where the US was involved have been largely disasters, right? If you couldn't control the outcome by being on the ground, what makes you think you have any chance of success by solely supplying weapons to Ukraine? I would argue that the odds are stacked against you.

In the long run Russia will be the victor.

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## Oldman1

Dalit said:


> Forget Afghanistan. All other wars where the US was involved have been largely disasters, right? If you couldn't control the outcome by being on the ground, what makes you think you have any chance of success by solely supplying weapons to Ukraine? I would argue that the odds are stacked against you.


You mean like the Gulf War 1? Or Gulf War 2? Or against ISIS? I wouldn't forget Afghanistan during the 1980s. Its pretty much a repeat. You have Poland helping to bring in the supplies and Ukrainians that fight hard so not sure how the odds are stacked considering how bad Russia's performance is especially against Kiev. And they hardly did anything in Donbas while their so called "feint" kept Ukrainian forces busy when most of the best units are in Donbas itself. So they hardly budged.


----------



## gambit

Dalit said:


> Forget Afghanistan. All other wars where the US was involved have been largely disasters, right? If you couldn't control the outcome by being on the ground, what makes you think you have any chance of success by solely supplying weapons to Ukraine? I would argue that the odds are stacked against you.
> 
> In the long run Russia will be the victor.


We are more interested in damaging the Russian military than trying to make sure Ukraine defeat Russia. But given the sorry performance of the VKS, if US airpower were involved, the VKS would have been erased from Ukrainian sky and the Russian Army would suffer their own 'Highway of Death' like in Iraq's withdrawal from Kuwait. Then with the Ukrainian Army being more sophisticated than the Taliban, what make you think we would fail?

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## Dalit

Oldman1 said:


> You mean like the Gulf War 1? Or Gulf War 2? Or against ISIS? I wouldn't forget Afghanistan during the 1980s. Its pretty much a repeat. You have Poland helping to bring in the supplies and Ukrainians that fight hard so not sure how the odds are stacked considering how bad Russia's performance is especially against Kiev. And they hardly did anything in Donbas while their so called "feint" kept Ukrainian forces busy when most of the best are in Donbas itself. So they hardly budged.



I also mean the Vietnam war. Include Iraq and Syria too.

Nevertheless, we will see in the end. I have seen such claims before and I know from actual experience that the outcome doesn't depend on arguments.



gambit said:


> We are more interested in damaging the Russian military than trying to make sure Ukraine defeat Russia. But given the sorry performance of the VKS, if US airpower were involved, the VKS would have been erased from Ukrainian sky and the Russian Army would suffer their own 'Highway of Death' like in Iraq's withdrawal from Kuwait. Then with the Ukrainian Army being more sophisticated than the Taliban, what make you think we would fail?



Because I also heard how the Taliban was failing back then. In reality they weren't. If wars were won on narratives the US would have had its way in every conflict.

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## gambit

Dalit said:


> I also mean the Vietnam war. Include Iraq and Syria too.
> 
> Nevertheless, we will see in the end. I have seen such claims before and I know from actual experience that *the outcome doesn't depend on arguments.*


Applies to yours as well.

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## Oldman1

Dalit said:


> I also mean the Vietnam war. Include Iraq and Syria too.
> 
> Nevertheless, we will see in the end. I have seen such claims before and I know from actual experience that the outcome doesn't depend on arguments.
> 
> 
> 
> Because I also heard how the Taliban was failing back then. In reality they weren't.


Shrugs* From my perspective, the odds are not stacked against me or against the Ukrainians for that matter. Just knowing that how hard they fought and the weapons that are being supplied and new weapons as well, I wouldn't bet against them.


----------



## Dalit

gambit said:


> Applies to yours as well.



Well, I can back it up with factual examples which I just did a moment ago. Your track record in the past doesn't bode well.



Oldman1 said:


> Shrugs* From my perspective, the odds are not stacked against me or against the Ukrainians for that matter. Just knowing that how hard they fought and the weapons that are being supplied and new weapons as well, I wouldn't bet against them.



Well, fighting hard isn't actually winning a war. Russia is superior in many respects and that is their main advantage.

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## Oldman1

Dalit said:


> Well, I can back it up with factual examples which I just did a moment ago. Your track record in the past doesn't bode well.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, fighting hard isn't actually winning a war. Russia is superior in many respects and that is their main advantage.


LOL! Wouldn't you have apply that lesson with U.S. led coalition against the Taliban with superiority in many respects? Or the Afghan Mujahadeen during the 80s?


----------



## gambit

Dalit said:


> Well, I can back it up with factual examples which I just did a moment ago. Your track record in the past doesn't bode well.


It seems you do not know but there are *TWO* equally components in any war: political and military.

The US did not fail the military front in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Viet Nam. In all three cases, it was the politico-socio component that did not turned in US favor. But as far as Ukraine go, do you think the Ukrainians give a damn about Afghanistan, Iraq, and Viet Nam? Do you think Ukrainian generals and soldiers lie wide awake at night pondering if they should give up just because some anonymous persons on the interweb made a flawed argument about Afghanistan, Iraq, and Viet Nam?


----------



## Dalit

gambit said:


> It seems you do not know but there are *TWO* equally components in any war: political and military.
> 
> The US did not fail the military front in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Viet Nam. In all three cases, it was the politico-socio component that did not turned in US favor. But as far as Ukraine go, do you think the Ukrainians give a damn about Afghanistan, Iraq, and Viet Nam? Do you think Ukrainian generals and soldiers lie wide awake at night pondering if they should give up just because some anonymous persons on the interweb made a flawed argument about Afghanistan, Iraq, and Viet Nam?



We will see. Time will tell who was right.



Oldman1 said:


> LOL! Wouldn't you have apply that lesson with U.S. led coalition against the Taliban with superiority in many respects? Or the Afghan Mujahadeen during the 80s?



The same Taliban also beat the entire coalition. Time will tell. I am convinced the Russians won't budge until the desired outcome.

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## Oldman1

Dalit said:


> We will see. Time will tell who was right.
> 
> 
> 
> The same Taliban also beat the entire coalition. Time will tell. I am convinced the Russians won't budge until the desired outcome.


And what is that desired outcome? Denazify? Demilitarize? No EU or NATO?


----------



## gambit

Dalit said:


> We will see. Time will tell who was right.


This is a cheap cop out argument. If you genuinely believe that 'time will tell' you would not have commented in the first place. You would have waited until the final outcome which could be months or even yrs from now.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Foinikas said:


> Chechens free captives at Azovstal. The old women are obviously grateful and hug them with tears


All these untold stories, not shown by Western MSM.

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## CAPRICORN-88

*Russian President Putin said, peace talk with Ukraine has hit a dead end.





 *


----------



## CAPRICORN-88



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## CAPRICORN-88



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## CAPRICORN-88

This is a must watch episode. Very factual.

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## khansaheeb

Chechen chief Kadyrov says over 1,000 Ukrainian marines surrender in Mariupol


Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov said more than 1,000 Ukrainian marines had surrendered in the besieged port city of Mariupol and urged remaining forces holed up in the Azovstal steel mill to surrender.




www.reuters.com




Chechen chief Kadyrov says over 1,000 Ukrainian marines surrender in Mariupol​Reuters











2 minute read















1/2
Service members of pro-Russian troops ride an armoured vehicle during fighting in Ukraine-Russia conflict near a plant of Azovstal Iron and Steel Works company in the southern port city of Mariupol, Ukraine April 12, 2022. REUTERS/Alexander Ermochenko

Register now for FREE unlimited access to Reuters.com​Register
April 13 (Reuters) - Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov said more than 1,000 Ukrainian marines had surrendered in the besieged port city of Mariupol and urged remaining forces holed up in the Azovstal steel mill to surrender.
There was no comment from Ukrainian officials on the statement made on Kadyrov's Telegram channel. Ukraine's General Staff, in its morning report on Wednesday, said that Russian forces were proceeding with attacks on Azovstal and the port.



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Russian television showed pictures of what it said were marines giving themselves up at Illich Iron and Steel Works in Mariupol on Tuesday, many of them injured.
It was not clear what plant - Azovstal or Illich Iron and Steel Works - Kadyrov meant when he talked about the 1,000 surrendered Ukrainian marines.
"Within Azovstal at the moment there are about 200 wounded who cannot receive any medical assistance," Kadyrov said in his post. "For them and all the rest it would be better to end this pointless resistance and go home to their families."



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Kadyrov is an ardent supporter of Kremlin leader Vladimir Putin and has deployed many of his fighters in Ukraine to bolster Russia's drive to "demilitarise" and "denazify" Ukraine.
In earlier postings, he vowed to proceed with the capture of Mariupol and to press on to take all other Ukrainian cities, including Kyiv
Russian television pictures showed what it said were Ukrainian soldiers being marched down a road with their hands in the air. One of the soldiers was shown holding a Ukrainian passport.

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## Paul2

nang2 said:


> This news is interesting:
> 
> https://****/intelslava/25047
> OK, it is from Telegram so you would have to know its hostname, which is masked out by the forum.
> It says: More than 1000 Marines of the Armed Forces of Ukraine today surrendered in Mariupol



That's more than the total number of marines defending the city to begin with.

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## ARMalik

There are speculations that Russia has captured Lt. Gen. Roger L. Cloutier Jr. of the Allied Land Command, Obviously a US General !!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514045109288980484

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514178377636323338


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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> By the time these drones are out of sight, the ground-control station switches to a satellite link to control the aircraft, and the plane uses GPS to relay its position, Just like the US general confirmed this week, Russians have been jamming the GPS signals, and that means they'll kill the satellite link between the ground station and the aircraft. They'll see jam the GPS to make sure the plane can't relay its positions. In essence, these drones are sitting ducks for the Russian military. And whatever wrong assumptions that the Russians had at the start of the conflict, they've adjusted their plans now, and they're in the mode of the confronting big and powerful adversaries.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/drone-crashes/how-drones-work/


Why would Russians adjust their plans? Everything was going so well and according to plan.

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## thetutle

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> 
> comedy break :
> 
> Tonight with John Oliver - Russian state TV :​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This also goes into to comedy section. Funny or sad , you'll judge. Anyway this is what the Russian public are fed. Hope they have their VPN's in order . . .
> 
> 
> Vladimir Solovyov , on tantrum or maybe possessed ? :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


The world is lucky the western powers have realised the type of regime we are dealing with here

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## sammuel

thetutle said:


> The world is lucky the western powers have realised the type of regime we are dealing with here





It has turned from bad to worst in recent years , there is no doubt now , that it it a dictatorship.

Sad thing is that democracy has not worked well for Russia from the fall of the soviet union. I think Putin in the past had it's advantage and considered , a relatively a stable responsible person.

From start he had dictator tendencies , but he certainly gave Russia stability and order , after the chaos of perestroika.

Don't know why he decided to go down in history in that manner.



~


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514178422037262337

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514191537068036101

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514200427734220810


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## Beast

Viet said:


> They are not hunting nazi in Ukraine.
> They are hunting women shoes, televisions, laptop, iphones, washing machine, Nutella.


Yes, from the liar NATO. The usual Nazi propaganda even make up semsational story of Russian soldiers raping a 83 years old Ukrainian grandma. 

Anyone remember the Iraq girl who's claim to have whole family massacre lie before the invasion of Iraq or the washing power as WMD by the number one liar, USA?



sammuel said:


> It has turned from bad to worst in recent years , now it has turned into a total dictatorships.
> 
> Sad thing is that democracy has not worked well for Russia from the fall of the soviet union. I think Putin in the past had it's advantage and was considered , a relatively a stable responsible person.
> 
> Never liked him cause he was a dictator , but he certainly gave Russia stability after the chaos of perestroika.
> 
> Don't know why he decided to ruin his image and go down in history in that manner.
> 
> This invasion has stained his image for ever , and this is how he will go down in history.
> 
> ~


You think he care his imagine more than the fate of Russia?


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## Primus

ARMalik said:


> There are speculations that Russia has captured Lt. Gen. Roger L. Cloutier Jr. of the Allied Land Command, Obviously a US General !!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514045109288980484


Thats not cloutier. Thats a taxi driver the FSB picked up


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514220223292923904

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## dBSPL

Turkey will veto Sweden's membership request.

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## Primus

dBSPL said:


> Turkey will veto Sweden's membership request.


Oh hey dude. Good to see you back.

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## dBSPL

Huffal said:


> Oh hey dude. Good to see you back.


We are in the month of Ramadan bro. World affairs can wait a little bit.

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## Wood

dBSPL said:


> Turkey will veto Sweden's membership request.


Uncle Sam can win approval from Turkey by offering F 35? 🤔


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## dBSPL

Wood said:


> Uncle Sam can win approval from Turkey by offering F 35? 🤔


The President of Turkey, the Minister of Defense and the Presidency of Defense Industry all of them announced that the F-35 book was closed and there would be no return to it. Turkey's current aim is to end its dependency on logistics to the US aviation companies within 10-15 years. Unless an Atlanticist structure wins the 2023 elections, Turkey will increasingly begin to impose its national interests on NATO in the coming years.

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## Viet

Paul2 said:


> That's more than the total number of marines defending the city to begin with.


Yesterday I remember a poster said 2,000 marines surrendered.


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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514199567205556225

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514200983332601860

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514202743233204230

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514204192071720961


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## Ali_Baba

dBSPL said:


> Turkey will veto Sweden's membership request.



Why would they Veto ? I can understand countries like Hungary - or even Germany at this rate - but Turkey? I don't follow why they would be so against it ?

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## Wergeland

Huffal said:


> Thats not cloutier. Thats a taxi driver the FSB picked up



Russians are treating him in a humane way.
Not sure if Americans would be equally curteous if a Russian general was captured.
Most likely not.


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## Vergennes

russian army in ukraine

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## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> Why would they Veto ? I can understand countries like Hungary - or even Germany at this rate - but Turkey? I don't follow why they would be so against it ?


What would Germany veto Sweden, Finland? Even the last delusional people in Europe understand the message Russia is a big threat. Putin makes Russia into a monster. Merkel’s appeasement politics is disaster. She is the one that had pushed all of us into a dependent strangulation with Russia that now everyone must live with it.


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## nang2

Paul2 said:


> That's more than the total number of marines defending the city to begin with.


Don't know if the entire 36th marine bridge is defending the city. The report says they are the units of the 36th marine brigade.


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## thetutle

dBSPL said:


> The President of Turkey, the Minister of Defense and the Presidency of Defense Industry all of them announced that the F-35 book was closed and there would be no return to it. Turkey's current aim is to end its dependency on logistics to the US aviation companies within 10-15 years. Unless an Atlanticist structure wins the 2023 elections, Turkey will increasingly begin to impose its national interests on NATO in the coming years.


I think Turkey will not veto a NATO expansion. That would be seen as an act of betrayal. I cant imagine what the US and UK would do.

I expect some trouble from Hungary, and even that would be hugely problematic, Hungary would be cut off in a major way and basically forced to accept Finland and Sweden. 

Turkey has its own concerns and must surely be thinking it is on the list of countries to be invaded by Russia. And with the Russian threat hanging over turkey, it would be very brave of turkey to turn its back on NATO. 

At the same time I can see the Turkish concerns, it is doubtful if NATO would even help Turkey in a meaningful way of it was ever invaded.


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## nang2

thetutle said:


> I think Turkey will not veto a NATO expansion. That would be seen as an act of betrayal. I cant imagine what the US and UK would do.
> 
> I expect some trouble from Hungary, and even that would be hugely problematic, Hungary would be cut off in a major way and basically forced to accept Finland and Sweden.
> 
> Turkey has its own concerns and must surely be thinking it is on the list of countries to be invaded by Russia. And with the Russian threat hanging over turkey, it would be very brave of turkey to turn its back on NATO.
> 
> At the same time I can see the Turkish concerns, it is doubtful if NATO would even help Turkey in a meaningful way of it was ever invaded.


Turkey may just advise Russia to take a tiny piece of Finland. So long as Finland has a territorial dispute, Turkey has an excuse to veto.


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## thetutle

nang2 said:


> Turkey may just advise Russia to take a tiny piece of Finland. So long as Finland has a territorial dispute, Turkey has an excuse to veto.


Thats exactly what I was thinking. Russia could take a piece of each country and prevent their membership bids like that. 

my view is that if that happened NATO would accept them anyway and Russia would be at war with NATO. Territorial dispute is just an excuse they gave Ukraine. The reason they wont accept Ukraine yet is because its military and government is infiltrated with Russian spies. 

Once all this is over and Russian influence is eliminated, they will accept Ukraine as well.


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## Ali_Baba

nang2 said:


> This news is interesting:
> 
> https://****/intelslava/25047
> OK, it is from Telegram so you would have to know its hostname, which is masked out by the forum.
> It says: More than 1000 Marines of the Armed Forces of Ukraine today surrendered in Mariupol



Fake news - Russians are hoping that by spreading such fake news - they can sap the morale of the defenders and force them to give up. Please dont peddle such fake news ...


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## nang2

Ali_Baba said:


> Fake news - Russians are hoping that by spreading such fake news - they can sap the morale of the defenders and force them to give up. Please dont peddle such fake news ...


Let's be fair and let the fake news from both sides to spread. Maybe from all the fakes, we can deduce some truth.



thetutle said:


> Thats exactly what I was thinking. Russia could take a piece of each country and prevent their membership bids like that.
> 
> my view is that if that happened NATO would accept them anyway and Russia would be at war with NATO. Territorial dispute is just an excuse they gave Ukraine. The reason they wont accept Ukraine yet is because its military and government is infiltrated with Russian spies.
> 
> Once all this is over and Russian influence is eliminated, they will accept Ukraine as well.


They probably will accept a split Ukraine. Russia is likely to hold on to the parts dominated by Russian population.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514245590879768581

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## thetutle

nang2 said:


> They probably will accept a split Ukraine. Russia is likely to hold on to the parts dominated by Russian population.


It would be a miracle if U_kraine is not _split up. But the more russia claims the less chance there will be that it will be recognised by the west. A landlocked urkaine will fight to the end to get some of its coast back. But they might just let go of some eastern parts. 

I cant see the west ever recognising Crimea as a part of russia. or indeed any coastline west of Crimea. Regardless of Ukraine agrees to.

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## Hack-Hook

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513821132536922116


so he is a mercenary.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514246092837298182

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## nang2

thetutle said:


> It would be a miracle if U_kraine is not _split up. But the more russia claims the less chance there will be that it will be recognised by the west. A landlocked urkaine will fight to the end to get some of its coast back. But they might just let go of some eastern parts.
> 
> I cant see the west ever recognising Crimea as a part of russia. or indeed any coastline west of Crimea. Regardless of Ukraine agrees to.


I am not quite sure about that. Odessa area also has a lot of Russians. The memory of 39 burnt alive in Odessa union building probably still remains in people's mind.


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## yuba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514245590879768581


What do you predict for the coming battle of donbas


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## thetutle

nang2 said:


> I am not quite sure about that. Odessa area also has a lot of Russians. The memory of 39 burnt alive in Odessa union building probably still remains in people's mind.


Odessa is to close to NATO and the mouth of the Danube. The new NATO red line is waaaaaay east of Odessa. Had Ukraine fallen quickly. NATO would have reluctantly accepted this, but now, there is no way. Any Russian territorial gains will be very limited and will remain unrecognised. This will limit any future economic development. Those areas will be like Northern Cyprus or ossettia.


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## nang2

thetutle said:


> Odessa is to close to NATO and the mouth of the Danube. The new NATO red line is waaaaaay east of Odessa. Had Ukraine fallen quickly. NATO would have reluctantly accepted this, but now, there is no way. Any Russian territorial gains will be very limited and will remain unrecognised. This will limit any future economic development. Those areas will be like Northern Cyprus or ossettia.


New NATO red line? What is the old one?


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## nangyale

I think the Russians have learnt their lesson and there won't be anymore unilateral withdrawals. They will keep what they liberate. Either as part of Russia or as a new Republic.

The more Ukraine fights the more territory its gonna loose.

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## nang2

nangyale said:


> I think the Russians have learnt their lesson and there won't be anymore unilateral withdrawals. They will keep what they liberate. Either as part of Russia or as a new Republic.
> 
> The more Ukraine fights the more territory its gonna loose.


When did Russians ever unilaterally withdraw? I know Chinese did but I have never heard of Russia doing that.

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## jamahir

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513662987462193154



Ha ha, a ZioNazi taking inspiration from the other ZioNazis.


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## nangyale

nang2 said:


> When did Russians ever unilaterally withdraw? I know Chinese did but I have never heard of Russia doing that.


The withdrawal from around Kiev and Sumy.


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## nang2

nangyale said:


> The withdrawal from around Kiev and Sumy.


That was just a maneuver. I have been following Scott Ritter lately. Despite what others have said about him, in the earliest (that I can found) interview he had about this war, which was about 2 weeks into the war, he pointed out there was no way Russia was going to take Kiev. All Russian troops there were to pin down a part of the Ukrainian troops. By destroying fuel depots and the only refinery, it would render this portion of Ukrainian military largely ineffective in reinforcing the south. Once that job is done, those Russian troops would be re-deployed to the south. If you also follow what Russian MoD updates everyday, you could see that they keep on hitting fuel depots. The later development shows Russians are doing exactly what Scott had said.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514269015568494593

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514269091598635010


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## nangyale

nang2 said:


> That was just a maneuver. I have been following Scott Ritter lately. Despite what others have said about him, in the earliest (that I can found) interview he had about this war, which was about 2 weeks into the war, he pointed out there was no way Russia was going to take Kiev. All Russian troops there were to pin down a part of the Ukrainian troops. By destroying fuel depots and the only refinery, it would render this portion of Ukrainian military largely ineffective in reinforcing the south. Once that job is done, those Russian troops would be re-deployed to the south. If you also follow what Russian MoD updates everyday, you could see that they keep on hitting fuel depots. The later development shows Russians are doing exactly what Scott had said.


Maybe it was.

Although I believe the Russians will be back to take Kiev if the Ukrainians keep on pushing their luck.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514267848901861377


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## nang2

nangyale said:


> Maybe it was.
> 
> Although I believe the Russians will be back to take Kiev if the Ukrainians keep on pushing their luck.


Maybe in the end. If Russia is able to defeat Ukrainians in the south, according to Scott, they would likely march westward and threaten Lviv with two small branches heading towards Odessa and Kiev respectively. Threatening Kiev is probably for political purpose, not a military one. Odessa, on the other hand, is valuable both militarially and psychologically. Threatening Lviv would have a big impact on NATO.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514267848901861377


He is quite a figure.


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## Viet

Sweden in the NATO will be a big boost in air defense on northern flank. Swedes with their Gripen won’t be nice to intruders.

















Saab receives order to modernize Swedish Air Force JAS-39 Gripen C/Ds


Saab received an order from the Swedish Defense Materiel Administration (FMV) to apply a modernization package to the Swedish Air Force's (Svenska Flygvapnet)




www.aviacionline.com

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## dBSPL

thetutle said:


> I think Turkey will not veto a NATO expansion. That would be seen as an act of betrayal. I cant imagine what the US and UK would do.
> 
> I expect some trouble from Hungary, and even that would be hugely problematic, Hungary would be cut off in a major way and basically forced to accept Finland and Sweden.
> 
> Turkey has its own concerns and must surely be thinking it is on the list of countries to be invaded by Russia. And with the Russian threat hanging over turkey, it would be very brave of turkey to turn its back on NATO.
> 
> At the same time I can see the Turkish concerns, it is doubtful if NATO would even help Turkey in a meaningful way of it was ever invaded.


We have different conditions from the 1950s or the 80s. The military threat besieging Turkey right now is not Russia, but the United States. The unrestricted US military bases in Greece (One of them on the Turkish border) and the situation in eastern Syria are issues of concern for Turkey. The USA has provided 30,000 trucks of military equipment to the PKK so far, and they are probably the largest terrorist organization in the world right now. Right now, if Turkey leaves the union without completing its preparations, it will have to war NATO.

Turkey is a NATO member and has veto power. Its military size and importance in the union is obvious. Therefore, it is a very reasonable reflex for Turkey to take a stance on not including more countries that will act against its own national interests in the union. We have made this mistake in 1980. We won't do it again. While Turkey is conducting anti-terrorist operations: we will reckoning to every country when the time comes that tries to politically protect this terrorist organization, does not extradite terrorists involved in terrorist crimes in Turkey, condemns Turkey for the operations carried out against these elements or even did an embargo decision.

Sorry Sweden. We don't need the F-35 or any other US bribes. You cannot dream of NATO without closing PKK offices and media, without giving written assurances to Turkey, in short, without your idiotic politicians leaving populism and acting in line with the interests of the country.

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## nang2

Chinese TV report inside Mariupol:






Main subtitle is in Chinese but the auto-generated English one works, too.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514278190121996299

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## nang2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514278190121996299


Why would anyone want to use Javelin to destroy a Grad?


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## F-22Raptor

nang2 said:


> Why would anyone want to use Javelin to destroy a Grad?



Why not? I'd say striking Russian MLRS systems are even more valuable than tanks. Those rocket systems are the bulk of what's been destroying Ukrainian cities.


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## Viet

nang2 said:


> Why would anyone want to use Javelin to destroy a Grad?


What should they use instead?


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## nang2

F-22Raptor said:


> Why not? I'd say striking Russian MLRS systems are even more valuable than tanks. Those rocket systems are the bulk of what's been destroying Ukrainian cities.


Soldiers are now economists? Javelin is meant for tanks, isn't it? You can take out an MLRS with an old RPG.


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## Viet

nang2 said:


> Maybe in the end. If Russia is able to defeat Ukrainians in the south, according to Scott, they would likely march westward and threaten Lviv with two small branches heading towards Odessa and Kiev respectively. Threatening Kiev is probably for political purpose, not a military one. Odessa, on the other hand, is valuable both militarially and psychologically. Threatening Lviv would have a big impact on NATO.
> 
> 
> He is quite a figure.


You can write an essay and sell to Putin.



nang2 said:


> Soldiers are now economists? Javelin is meant for tanks, isn't it? You can take out an MLRS with an old RPG.


You don’t see it? The target is too far away.


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## F-22Raptor

nang2 said:


> Soldiers are now economists? Javelin is meant for tanks, isn't it? You can take out an MLRS with an old RPG.



A Russian MLRS is a high value target. I doubt they care what they destroy it with.

The US has sent 7,000 Javelins and 7,000+ AT-4 anti armor weapons. There's plenty of weapons to go around.


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## nang2

F-22Raptor said:


> A Russian MLRS is a high value target. I doubt they care what they destroy it with.
> 
> The US has sent 7,000 Javelins and 7,000+ AT-4 anti armor weapons. There's plenty of weapons to go around.


Sure. You are paying for this, of course. I have no position in judging how you'd like to spend your money.

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## Foinikas

thetutle said:


> Communist infiltrator


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514190106994909195

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## Viet

Change of sentiment
Majority of Germans support the country delivering of offensive weapons to Ukraine.






__





Stimmung in Deutschland: Mehrheit für Waffenlieferungen an die Ukraine - n-tv.de


Das Thema spaltet die Koalition, doch in der Bevölkerung ist die Meinung klar: Eine Mehrheit der Deutschen befürwortet die Lieferung schwerer Waffen an die Ukraine. Anders sieht es beim Gasembargo aus.



amp.n-tv.de









Kampfpanzer vom Typ Leopard 2 A7V bei einer Übung auf dem Truppenübungsplatz


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## F-22Raptor

nang2 said:


> Sure. You are paying for this, of course. I have no position in judging how you'd like to spend your money.




I think the US should be spending a $1T+ on defense. The US is still well below what it was spending during the Reagan era as a percentage of GDP.


Completing destroying the Russian Army is well worth it. It will take them many years to replace what they've lost, if ever.

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## nang2

F-22Raptor said:


> I think the US should be spending a $1T+ on defense. The US is still well below what it was spending during the Reagan era as a percentage of GDP.
> 
> 
> Completing destroying the Russian Army is well worth it. It will take them many years to replace what they've lost, if ever.


I doubt it but everyone has the liberty in his own mental entertainment.


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## jamal18

nangyale said:


> Maybe it was.
> 
> Although I believe the Russians will be back to take Kiev if the Ukrainians keep on pushing their luck.


Both the US and its poodle the UK are pushing Ukraine not to accept a peace deal. If this happens then the only course of action open to the Russians is to take Kiev. The total occupation of the Ukraine, which I believe was never the Russian plan might be inevitable. US/Nato guiding the Ukraine to its total destruction.


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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513871711258746899

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513894556021973006

Reactions: Like Like:
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## oberschlesier

nang2 said:


> Maybe in the end. If Russia is able to defeat Ukrainians in the south, according to Scott, they would likely march westward and threaten Lviv with two small branches heading towards Odessa and Kiev respectively. Threatening Kiev is probably for political purpose, not a military one. Odessa, on the other hand, is valuable both militarially and psychologically. Threatening Lviv would have a big impact on NATO.


Wishful thinking.

A bigger probablibilty is, that the Ukrainians will attack the russian flank moving from the north in the direction of Donbass.

+ Sweden and Finland will join NATO and Russian won`t be able to do anything about it

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## khansaheeb

sammuel said:


> It has turned from bad to worst in recent years , there is no doubt now , that it it a dictatorship.
> 
> Sad thing is that democracy has not worked well for Russia from the fall of the soviet union. I think Putin in the past had it's advantage and considered , a relatively a stable responsible person.
> 
> From start he had dictator tendencies , but he certainly gave Russia stability and order , after the chaos of perestroika.
> 
> Don't know why he decided to go down in history in that manner.
> 
> 
> 
> ~


Yeh, Very much like Israel. The Palestinians have been suffering a long time what the Ukrainians are suffering today. Evil minds think alike.


----------



## jamal18

oberschlesier said:


> Wishful thinking.
> 
> A bigger probablibilty is, that the Ukrainians will attack the russian flank moving from the north in the direction of Donbass.
> 
> + Sweden and Finland will join NATO and Russian won`t be able to do anything about it


With what? Most if not all the armour is encircled in Donbass, if not destroyed. Increasingly you see Ukrainian troops in civilian vehicles or on foot, because their APC/IFV's have been destroyed.

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## nang2

oberschlesier said:


> Wishful thinking.
> 
> A bigger probablibilty is, that the Ukrainians will attack the russian flank moving from the north in the direction of Donbass.
> 
> + Sweden and Finland will join NATO and Russian won`t be able to do anything about it


Of course. I said "if", unlike you who state some possible future events as if they are certain. You must be a hell of fortune teller.



khansaheeb said:


> Yeh, Very much like Israel. The Palestinians have been suffering a long time what the Ukrainians are suffering today. Evil minds think alike.


Actually a better analogy with Palestinians are those Russians who live in Ukraine in the last 8 years. And you can compare the invasion of Israel by Arab coalition with this Russian invasion of Ukraine. Arabs lost in the former. It is still uncertain about Russia yet.


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## jamal18

One of the last two Ukrainian units in Mariupol, 36 marine brigade, has surrendered according to the Russians. It only leaves the Nazis in the Iliych steel plant.

My guess is that only a small Russian force is besieging them, the main force being redeployed for the major Donbass batle.

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## Get Ya Wig Split



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## oberschlesier

jamal18 said:


> With what? Most if not all the armour is encircled in Donbass, if not destroyed. Increasingly you see Ukrainian troops in civilian vehicles or on foot, because their APC/IFV's have been destroyed.



How do you know this ?

The Russian only occupied 20% of Ukraine, why do you assume all of their APC/IFV's have been destroyed?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514291661727322133

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## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> I think the US should be spending a $1T+ on defense. The US is still well below what it was spending during the Reagan era as a percentage of GDP.
> 
> 
> Completing destroying the Russian Army is well worth it. It will take them many years to replace what they've lost, if ever.


US military budget is 813 billion USD next year, will probably reach 1 trillion in 5 year.
By then Germany defense budget will be about 76 billion USD. 2 pct of NATO target.

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## oberschlesier

nang2 said:


> Of course. I said "if", unlike you who state some possible future events as if they are certain. You must be a hell of fortune teller.


I said there is a bigger probability, taking into account their Perfomance.

For Finland and Sweden, most of their population is for it, so it will happen.


----------



## jamal18

oberschlesier said:


> How do you know this ?
> 
> The Russian only occupied 20% of Ukraine, why do you assume all of their APC/IFV's have been destroyed?


Most of their armour, and possibly all of their armoured formations were in the East.


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

Viet said:


> US military budget is 823 billion USD next year, will probably reach 2 trillion in 5 year.
> Germany defense budget will be about 76 billion USD.
> 
> View attachment 833973

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## mmr

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> View attachment 833975


The military strength of NATO is unprecedented. Russia is a joke compare to it. 

I am pretty sure Nato will expand to asia pacific (Japan, south korea, australia new zealand) as well. USA is lucky to have so many rich powerful countries willing to work with them.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514294528550879235


----------



## Viet

jamal18 said:


> Most of their armour, and possibly all of their armoured formations were in the East.


That makes no sense. Ukraine would focus on the incoming battle in Donbas, however she not deploying all army formations.
In doing so Ukraine would be exposed to sudden attacks from the north and southern flanks.


----------



## oberschlesier

jamal18 said:


> Most of their armour, and possibly all of their armoured formations were in the East.


Ukrainian best units were in the East. The Ukrainian army was generally regulary distributed across the country, they mobilised a lot of reserves. What you see in the internet are videos from volunteers and territorial defence.


----------



## jamal18

Viet said:


> That makes no sense. Ukraine would focus on the incoming battle in Donbas, however she not deploying all army formations.
> In doing so Ukraine would be exposed to sudden attacks from the north and southern flanks.


I believe Zelensky accepted a plan last year to reconquer the 'Russian' enclaves. The units were there for this operation. The Russians pre-emptied this.


----------



## oberschlesier

jamal18 said:


> I believe Zelensky accepted a plan last year to reconquer the 'Russian' enclaves. The units were there for this operation. The Russians pre-emptied this.


I did not hear about this.
Anyway, why reconquer the 'Russian' enclaves ? It`s an endless cost, that just brings Problems. It was better to keep it as it is, and keep Russian paying for it.


----------



## zartosht

Was reading a beautiful analysis by Scott Ritter

The Russians are conducting beautful battlefield pisitioning. He said in the first persian gulf war, there was a giant map layed out for the american generals by norma. Schwarzkoff

And in it was a picture representing of every single iraqi division. They were color coded with green, yellow and red. 

Green meant the division was full strenghth. They would never attack a green division untill airpower had first turned it into yellow (unit has 50% + battle capability

And then red, meaning units were under 50%. And probably completely battered and unable to put up organized resistance. 

Thats exqctly what russia is doing to the ukies. Probing forces, and pounding them to the ground untill they turn “yellow”

He mocked people thinking the russians were going for 3.5m kiev with 35k troops. 

And now a new old school genera has been appointed. Known as the butcher of suria for poundinng the wahabis into the earth

The ukie army is gwtting ever closer to destruction

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## mmr

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-ukraine-russia-genocide-1.6418408



'Absolutely right' to call Russia's actions in Ukraine genocide, Trudeau says​


----------



## jamal18

zartosht said:


> Was reading a beautiful analysis by Scott Ritter
> 
> The Russians are conducting beautful battlefield pisitioning. He said in the first persian gulf war, there was a giant map layed out for the american generals by norma. Schwarzkoff
> 
> And in it was a picture representing of every single iraqi division. They were color coded with green, yellow and red.
> 
> Green meant the division was full strenghth. They would never attack a green division untill airpower had first turned it into yellow (unit has 50% + battle capability
> 
> And then red, meaning units were under 50%. And probably completely battered and unable to put up organized resistance.
> 
> Thats exqctly what russia is doing to the ukies. Probing forces, and pounding them to the ground untill they turn “yellow”
> 
> He mocked people thinking the russians were going for 3.5m kiev with 35k troops.
> 
> And now a new old school genera has been appointed. Known as the butcher of suria for poundinng the wahabis into the earth
> 
> The ukie army is gwtting ever closer to destruction


This is the myth of the Russian 'invasion' of Kiev, and the Ukranian 'counter offensive' that has 'defeated' them. If it needed 40,000 to capture Mariupol, population 300,000, can it capture Kiev population 3,500,000 with 45,000 men?

The Russians clearly said during the negotiations that they would withdraw troops from the Kiev area as a sign of goodwill.

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## beijingwalker

mmr said:


> The military strength of NATO is unprecedented. Russia is a joke compare to it.
> 
> I am pretty sure Nato will expand to asia pacific (Japan, south korea, australia new zealand) as well. USA is lucky to have so many rich powerful countries willing to work with them.


It's equally amazing that US still managed to lose Korean war, Vietnam war, and most recently , Afghanistan.


----------



## mmr

beijingwalker said:


> It's equally amazing that US still managed to lose Korean war, Vietnam war, and most recently , Afghanistan.


Yes true. Unjust wars are hard to win. All these wars local population OR majority was against USA.


----------



## oberschlesier

jamal18 said:


> This is the myth of the Russian 'invasion' of Kiev, and the Ukranian 'counter offensive' that has 'defeated' them. If it needed 40,000 to capture Mariupol, population 300,000, can it capture Kiev population 3,500,000 with 45,000 men?
> 
> The Russians clearly said during the negotiations that they would withdraw troops from the Kiev area as a sign of goodwill.


What did they achieve with this operation ? a big "WTF?" in the western countries ?


----------



## WotTen

nang2 said:


> Let's be fair and let the fake news from both sides to spread. Maybe from all the fakes, we can deduce some truth.



This is probably the only 100% true post in this whole thread.


----------



## oberschlesier

WotTen said:


> This is probably the only 100% true post in this whole thread.


The Situation on the ground is the truth. There were Russians around Kiev, now they are gone.
At the beginning of the conflict Zelensky was to be evacuated, by some he even was already in Warsaw. Now he has more and more foreign delegations visiting him. I kinda cannot believe this was the plan, at least as long Putin is not planning for Zelensky to be his replacement

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## jamal18

oberschlesier said:


> What did they achieve with this operation ? a big "WTF?" in the western countries ?


They said clearly, the idea was to 'fix' Ukrainian troops in the west. It stopped the Ukrainians from reinforcing the Eastern battlefield, where the future of the war will be decided.


----------



## oberschlesier

jamal18 said:


> They said clearly, the idea was to 'fix' Ukrainian troops in the west. It stopped the Ukrainians from reinforcing the Eastern battlefield, where the future of the war will be decided.


Which did not work, as the Russian advance was stalled in East and Ukrainins can still move their units east anyway. A very costly deceptive manouver.


----------



## jamal18

oberschlesier said:


> Which did not work, as the Russian advance was stalled in East and Ukrainins can still move their units east anyway. A very costly deceptive manouver.


At present, the Ukrainian forces in the east are fully encircled and making their last stand. As even Macron said, expect bad news from the Donbass in the next few weeks.


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514304478148640768

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## nang2

mmr said:


> https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-ukraine-russia-genocide-1.6418408
> 
> 
> 
> 'Absolutely right' to call Russia's actions in Ukraine genocide, Trudeau says​


He may need to divert the criticism on why Canada military trains some Azov militants.


----------



## oberschlesier

jamal18 said:


> At present, the Ukrainian forces in the east are fully encircled and making their last stand. As even Macron said, expect bad news from the Donbass in the next few weeks.



Encircled In Mariupol, yes since like 45 days.
In Donbass not really. 

This is the situation:


https://www.understandingwar.org/sites/default/files/DraftUkraineCoTApril12%2C2022.png



Too many axis of attack. The 1939 Wehrmacht with horse logistics would do it better.

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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514309024082239497

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514306168973557761

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514307086674452490
putin on suicide watch

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## nang2

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514309024082239497
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514306168973557761
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514307086674452490
> putin on suicide watch


So far, I only find the aid from Azerbaijan is the most useful. 100 tons of fuel. All those aids from US need fuel to either operate or move around.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514307282431057922


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514314630377930754

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## Type59

nang2 said:


> Sure. You are paying for this, of course. I have no position in judging how you'd like to spend your money.


No homeless in USA and 2022 is better then 1950s America 😃


----------



## F-22Raptor

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514314630377930754




So either M109 or M777 howitzers. My guess is M109s for better mobility.

Also, 3000 Switchblades, 10 per system

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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> So either M109 or M777 howitzers. My guess is M109s for better mobility.
> 
> Also, 1300 Switchblades, 10 per system



At first I said 1,300 Switchblades, it’s actually 3,000

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## Viet

mmr said:


> The military strength of NATO is unprecedented. Russia is a joke compare to it.
> 
> I am pretty sure Nato will expand to asia pacific (Japan, south korea, australia new zealand) as well. USA is lucky to have so many rich powerful countries willing to work with them.


However no match to Russo/Chinese new democratic world order according to Lavrov.


----------



## mmr

nang2 said:


> He may need to divert the criticism on why Canada military trains some Azov militants.


Separate issue. dont justify killing innocent ppl.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Kirby confirmed it will be towed artillery, not self propelled. 


M777s?

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## mmr

Viet said:


> However no match to Russo/Chinese new democratic world order according to Lavrov.


Lavrov is an idiot.

and look where his daugther is









Stepdaughter of Putin's foreign minister 'owns £4.4m London flat


Land Registry documents show Polina Kovaleva, the glamorous stepdaughter of Russia's foreign minister Sergei Lavrov, owns a £4.4million flat in London which she bought in her name when she was 21.




www.dailymail.co.uk





bla bla hates west while daughter is spending millions in west. I dont see any of putin lapdog goes to china or there families lol


----------



## nang2

mmr said:


> Separate issue. dont justify killing innocent ppl.


Of course not. I condemn all the people who kill innocent people, Russians or Ukrainians or whoever.

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## jamal18

beijingwalker said:


> It's equally amazing that US still managed to lose Korean war, Vietnam war, and most recently , Afghanistan.


I saw an interview earlier of the ex-Austrian foreign minister. She asked if just after the defeat in Afghanistan, was this the right time for the US to start a new conflict?


----------



## UKBengali

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514314630377930754





This looks like the kit that Ukraine will require for amoured battles on the Donbas.

Any idea when the Ukrainians will actually have all this stuff in the field?


----------



## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> Kirby confirmed it will be towed artillery, not self propelled.
> 
> 
> M777s?


Ukraine needs heavy tanks to root out the Russians from Donbas.


----------



## Paul2

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514309024082239497
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514306168973557761
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514307086674452490
> putin on suicide watch



That's a far cry from $1B per week burn US been spending on fighting donkey riders in Afghanistan long after the high intensity part of the conflict.



nang2 said:


> Why would anyone want to use Javelin to destroy a Grad?



Because they have 7000 of them


----------



## gambit

beijingwalker said:


> It's equally amazing that US still managed to lose Korean war, Vietnam war, and most recently , Afghanistan.


Those were not wars but 'special military operations'. As such, we did not 'lose' any 'war' but withdrew because we accomplished our *MILITARY* objectives.

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## Viet

not too bad the new 800 million USD package.
By such amount of weapons Ukraine can take on an entire Russian tank army.



800 Stinger anti-aircraft systems;
2,000 Javelin, 1,000 light anti-armor weapons, and 6,000 AT-4 anti-armor systems;
100 Tactical Unmanned Aerial Systems;
100 grenade launchers, 5,000 rifles, 1,000 pistols, 400 machine guns, and 400 shotguns;
Over 20 million rounds of small arms ammunition and grenade launcher and mortar rounds;
25,000 sets of body armor; and
25,000 helmets.









Fact Sheet on U.S. Security Assistance for Ukraine - The White House


President Biden today announced an additional $800 million in security assistance to Ukraine, bringing the total U.S. security assistance committed to




www.whitehouse.gov

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## nang2

jamal18 said:


> I saw an interview earlier of the ex-Austrian foreign minister. She asked if just after the defeat in Afghanistan, was this the right time for the US to start a new conflict?


Good God. She thinks there is a right time to start a conflict.

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## Paul2

UKBengali said:


> This looks like the kit that Ukraine will require for amoured battles on the Donbas.
> 
> Any idea when the Ukrainians will actually have all this stuff in the field?


2-4 weeks. Switchblades took a whole month to come.

Javelins Ukrainians been using were the original 2018 supply up until 2-3 week, when 100 extra of them came, and since then it finally turned into a torrent.

It will take 5-15 days for these thousand+ javelins to reach frontlines.

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## Viet

As per Yale professor Timothy Snyder, also a historian, in Putin’s worldview he sees every Ukrainian who refuses to be Russian as Nazi. As such every Ukrainian deserves the death.
The war against Ukraine is designed as “Vernichtungskrieg”.
A racial motivated war of destruction.









Ukraine-Historiker Timothy Snyder: „Moskau ist zum Zentrum des Faschismus der Welt geworden“


Russland führe einen kolonialen Vernichtungskrieg, sagt Timothy Snyder. Der Yale-Professor über Putins Selbstverständnis und Deutschlands fatale Fehler.




plus.tagesspiegel.de


----------



## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514307282431057922


That rumour is as real as James Vasquez actually fighting Ukraine



Viet said:


> Ukraine needs heavy tanks to root out the Russians from Donbas.


No, not tanks. They need to be mobile. Shoot and scoot tactics would be their best bet. Reason being, Russian/DNR/LNR troops are equipped with potent AT systems such as the Kornet ATGM and Metis M1 (God i sound like tai hai chen). Those systems can pretty much destroy any and all tanks that arent equipped with a hardkill APS of sorts. 

Ukraine is in a tight spot regarding Donbass. Their airforce has been rendered useless now and they have lost the ability to use their TB2 UCAVs (which wouldve had a field day considering Donbass' topography). 

So their best bet would be to shoot and scoot. Ambush where possible and hold out in cities like the Chechens did in Grozny.


----------



## Viet

Huffal said:


> That rumour is as real as James Vasquez actually fighting Ukraine
> 
> 
> No, not tanks. They need to be mobile. Shoot and scoot tactics would be their best bet. Reason being, Russian/DNR/LNR troops are equipped with potent AT systems such as the Kornet ATGM and Metis M1 (God i sound like tai hai chen). Those systems can pretty much destroy any and all tanks that arent equipped with a hardkill APS of sorts.
> 
> Ukraine is in a tight spot regarding Donbass. Their airforce has been rendered useless now and they have lost the ability to use their TB2 UCAVs (which wouldve had a field day considering Donbass' topography).
> 
> So their best bet would be to shoot and scoot. Ambush where possible and hold out in cities like the Chechens did in Grozny.


Tanks are king on battlefield. Putin’s army uses ballistic missiles to take out Ukrainian airports, not deployed much of air power probably because of strong Ukrainian air defense.
Anti tank missiles and other sorts are of defensive nature. Putin will not back down.
Zelenskyy needs tanks for the offensive he pressures Germany day by day to have tanks.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514333291654037511


----------



## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> At first I said 1,300 Switchblades, it’s actually 3,000


Thats shit load of drones. Can take out 3000 targets...

amount of arms flowing to Ukraine is insane

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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513897130464792579

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513804131533791239


----------



## Vergennes

mmr said:


> Thats shit load of drones. Can take out 3000 targets...
> 
> amount of arms flowing to Ukraine is insane



Seeing the "world's second most powerful army" getting trashed left and right is priceless,totally worth the money.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514317217449582602

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## nang2

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513897130464792579
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513804131533791239


Twitter is filled with such a garbage while banning those who can speak with reasons:









SCOTT RITTER: Twitter Wars—My Personal Experience in Twitter’s Ongoing Assault on Free Speech


At some point, the U.S. people, and those they elect to higher office need to bring Twitter in line with the ideals and values Americans collectively espouse when it comes to free speech and online identity protection. By Scott Ritter Special to Consortium News Monday, April 4, 2022: It




consortiumnews.com

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## Get Ya Wig Split

nang2 said:


> Twitter is filled with such a garbage while banning those who can speak with reasons:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SCOTT RITTER: Twitter Wars—My Personal Experience in Twitter’s Ongoing Assault on Free Speech
> 
> 
> At some point, the U.S. people, and those they elect to higher office need to bring Twitter in line with the ideals and values Americans collectively espouse when it comes to free speech and online identity protection. By Scott Ritter Special to Consortium News Monday, April 4, 2022: It
> 
> 
> 
> 
> consortiumnews.com




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514279746888093698


----------



## nang2

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514279746888093698


Don't respond to me with Twitter content. Or I just ignore you.


----------



## Primus

Viet said:


> Tanks are king on battlefield. Putin’s army uses ballistic missiles to take out Ukrainian airports, not deployed much of air power probably because of strong Ukrainian air defense.
> Anti tank missiles and other sorts are of defensive nature. Putin will not back down.
> Zelenskyy needs tanks for the offensive he pressures Germany day by day to have tanks.


Majority of Ukraines long range and medium range air defences have been destroyed by the Russian air force and also via Russian cruise missile and ballistic missile strikes. 

Russia has aur superiority which they are using still. 

Tanks would be a good morale booster for infantryman should they actually succeed in battle, but they are equally as demoralising should the infantryman see said tank get destroyed/knocked out. 

Those tanks Germany want to give are the leo 1a5. Literally no armour. Its a death trap. 

It would be best if the UKR forces remain as mobile as possible.


----------



## Gripen9

I heard Russian battleship Moscova was hit in the balck sea. Any confirmation?

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## Get Ya Wig Split

BREAKING: Ukrainian officials claim to have hit the Russian cruiser 'Moskva' (flagship of the Black Sea Fleet) with anti-ship missiles. No independent confirmation at this stage.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514342547967156233

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513826302582833154

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514324826961371140


----------



## Gripen9

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> BREAKING: Ukrainian officials claim to have hit the Russian cruiser 'Moskva' (flagship of the Black Sea Fleet) with anti-ship missiles. No independent confirmation at this stage.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514342547967156233


Huge if true...

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## Get Ya Wig Split

BBC:

A Russian cruiser which was famously defied by Ukrainian troops on a small island at the start of the war has been hit by Ukrainian rockets in the Black Sea, according to Ukrainian officials.

The Moskva, the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet, received "very serious damage", Odesa regional governor Maksym Marchenko said.

"It has been confirmed that the missile cruiser Moskva today went exactly where it was sent by our border guards on Snake Island!" he said.

On the first day of the invasion, the small garrison refused calls from the ship for it to surrender, telling the ship to "go to hell".

Earlier on Wednesday a fire was reported on the ship. Ukrainian presidential aide Oleksiy Arestovych said Russian rescuers were unable to reach the vessel.

He said the ship could have as many as 510 crew members on board.

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514237235159252999


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

US black hawk up (from Romania). Looks like we are going in to get confirmation on Moskva. @F-22Raptor @Hamartia Antidote @KAL-EL @Gripen9







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514359782022553603


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514348558073438211IF it's true that would be a big morale hit

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Oldman1 said:


> Never know, people would say the same thing when Ukrainian helos hit Belgorod oil depot inside Russia.



An sneak attack on one of Russia's oil depot is not going shift the broader strategic objective of this war. I think the West wants to prolong the war, that way it becomes costly for Russians, but that high cost more Ukrainians deaths as well. And since Russia sees this war as a war of survival, I doubt the high cost is going to deter them. That is why symbolic helicopters provided to Ukrainians won't do much as far as I can see.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514349793098797057

If this is true, what a huge embarrassment for the Russian Navy

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## Oldman1

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> An sneak attack on one of Russia's oil depot is not going shift the broader strategic objective of this war. I think the West wants to prolong the war, that way it becomes costly for Russians, but that high cost more Ukrainians deaths as well. And since Russia sees this war as a war of survival, I doubt the high cost is going to deter them. That is why symbolic helicopters provided to Ukrainians won't do much as far as I can see.


And yet the Ukrainians also consider this a war of survival so the high cost of cities being bombed and occupation is not going to deter them to keep on fighting. You may think the helos are useless but then who knows what else they can do with them.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514343602352279552

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## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514343602352279552


isnt that wonderful lol


----------



## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> And since Russia sees this war as a war of survival, I doubt the high cost is going to deter them.



What a load of bullcrap. "war of survival". As if the Ukrainians were on the vicinity of Moscow. You call Russia's invasion of Ukraine over dubious motives as "war of survival" ? LMAO.

Keep crying because Putin can't fulfill his dreams of reviving a dead empire.

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## thetutle

nang2 said:


> New NATO red line? What is the old one?


I think the old one put Ukraine as a Russian satellite. Before this I think NATO had no choice but to accept a Russian take-over. 

But given Ukrain's determination to fight these have now shifted.


----------



## Oldman1

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514237235159252999


Thats shocking! Now I understand why the Russians invaded Ukraine. Ukrainian children not speaking in Russian fluently.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514335493114286083

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## Oldman1

F-22Raptor said:


> Kirby confirmed it will be towed artillery, not self propelled.
> 
> 
> M777s?


Not sure. Could be earlier generation the M198s. I would also give the M109s as well, got the older ones and lots of it. Also Excalibur rounds as well to hit targets accurately. Nothing classified about it since almost every country's military have GPS guided type artillery rounds.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514325652396249097


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514368493587730432

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Oldman1

jamal18 said:


> At present, the Ukrainian forces in the east are fully encircled and making their last stand. As even Macron said, expect bad news from the Donbass in the next few weeks.


No they are not encircled, have you looked at the map lately?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> What a load of bullcrap. "war of survival". As if the Ukrainians were on the vicinity of Moscow. You call Russia's invasion of Ukraine over dubious motives as "war of survival" ? LMAO.
> 
> Keep crying because Putin can't fulfill his dreams of reviving a dead empire.



Keep crying?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514355505216512003

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514295058421407752

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## thetutle

dBSPL said:


> We have different conditions from the 1950s or the 80s. The military threat besieging Turkey right now is not Russia, but the United States. The unrestricted US military bases in Greece (One of them on the Turkish border) and the situation in eastern Syria are issues of concern for Turkey. The USA has provided 30,000 trucks of military equipment to the PKK so far, and they are probably the largest terrorist organization in the world right now. Right now, if Turkey leaves the union without completing its preparations, it will have to war NATO.
> 
> Turkey is a NATO member and has veto power. Its military size and importance in the union is obvious. Therefore, it is a very reasonable reflex for Turkey to take a stance on not including more countries that will act against its own national interests in the union. We have made this mistake in 1980. We won't do it again. While Turkey is conducting anti-terrorist operations: we will reckoning to every country when the time comes that tries to politically protect this terrorist organization, does not extradite terrorists involved in terrorist crimes in Turkey, condemns Turkey for the operations carried out against these elements or even did an embargo decision.
> 
> Sorry Sweden. We don't need the F-35 or any other US bribes. You cannot dream of NATO without closing PKK offices and media, without giving written assurances to Turkey, in short, without your idiotic politicians leaving populism and acting in line with the interests of the country.


Thats a fair position. Sweden will have to do that if Turkey asks. 

If NATO door is closed I think US and UK will give Sweden and Finland a formal treaty alliance by forming a totally different alliance, Something like ANZUS or the treaty with Japan.

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## Oldman1

nang2 said:


> So far, I only find the aid from Azerbaijan is the most useful. 100 tons of fuel. All those aids from US need fuel to either operate or move around.


You can't be that daft.


----------



## thetutle

nang2 said:


> Soldiers are now economists? Javelin is meant for tanks, isn't it? You can take out an MLRS with an old RPG.


You want to risk your life doing it? This seems a lot easier.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514296322953818129

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## thetutle

jamal18 said:


> Both the US and its poodle the UK are pushing Ukraine not to accept a peace deal. If this happens then the only course of action open to the Russians is to take Kiev. The total occupation of the Ukraine, which I believe was never the Russian plan might be inevitable. US/Nato guiding the Ukraine to its total destruction.


The more time and money and resources russia spends in Ukraine the better for the west.

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Keep crying?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514355505216512003
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514295058421407752



More than 1000 marines surrendered yet somehow now pictures or videos of that large surrender  Something fishy here.*

And cry me a river,those drunkards haven't been able to fully capture Mariupol despite bombing it to the stone age and cutting it from the rest of Ukraine since 40+ days. Can't capture a city but somehow think they could entire Ukraine,lmao. Securing the donbass already seems too hard for those vodka drunkards and kadyrov tiktok clowns.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514333291654037511





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514261156743028743
2000 Ukrainian marines and Azov Neo-Nazis surrendered yesterday,and here you're showing us a few hats. Goodness grief!

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## thetutle

jamal18 said:


> With what? Most if not all the armour is encircled in Donbass, if not destroyed. Increasingly you see Ukrainian troops in civilian vehicles or on foot, because their APC/IFV's have been destroyed.


you will soon find out wont you.


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## nang2

thetutle said:


> I think the old one put Ukraine as a Russian satellite. Before this I think NATO had no choice but to accept a Russian take-over.
> 
> But given Ukrain's determination to fight these have now shifted.


I see. Not really NATO's red line, but what you think what should it be.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514261156743028743
> 2000 Ukrainian marines and Azov Neo-Nazis surrendered yesterday,and here you're showing us a few hats. Goodness grief!


2000? 1000 is what I heard.


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## jamal18

Vergennes said:


> More than 1000 marines surrendered yet somehow now pictures or videos of that large surrender  Something fishy here.*
> 
> And cry me a river,those drunkards haven't been able to fully capture Mariupol despite bombing it to the stone age and cutting it from the rest of Ukraine since 40+ days. Can't capture a city but somehow think they could entire Ukraine,lmao. Securing the donbass already seems too hard for those vodka drunkards and kadyrov tiktok clowns.


I think that by now only the Azov Nazis are holding out. Most expect them to capitulate soon, if not already.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> More than 1000 marines surrendered yet somehow now pictures or videos of that large surrender  Something fishy here.*
> 
> And cry me a river,those drunkards haven't been able to fully capture Mariupol despite bombing it to the stone age and cutting it from the rest of Ukraine since 40+ days. Can't capture a city but somehow think they could entire Ukraine,lmao. Securing the donbass already seems too hard for those vodka drunkards and kadyrov tiktok clowns.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514363300334735363
That video speaks for itself. 1350 of Ukrainian 36th Separate Marine Brigade surrendered tonight. You can keep doing denial after denial but truth is obvious to those who are not *One-Eyed. *

Can't capture a city? What are Kherson, Mariupol, etc?


----------



## mmr

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514347017547493379

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514349793098797057

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## mmr

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514349793098797057


lol brits and us will send more anti ship missiles...good opportunity for us to destroy russian pathetic navy through proxy

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514270550495051777

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## Vergennes

LMAO


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514380134706515975

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## Oldman1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514131226390667266
These are asking to be Graded. Or ATACMS. Hence why Ukrainians need those long range weapons.

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## mmr

Vergennes said:


> LMAO
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514380134706515975


lmao

they were evacuated or left for fish to eat


they do leave there dead army man to eat by dogs

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## Hassan Al-Somal

nang2 said:


> I see. Not really NATO's red line, but what you think what should it be.
> 
> 
> 2000? 1000 is what I heard.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514373911387029511


Vergennes said:


> LMAO
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514380134706515975





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514373911387029511

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514370168276889603
Looks like towns and cities are gonna get flattened.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514384468425027584

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## thetutle

nang2 said:


> I see. Not really NATO's red line, but what you think what should it be.


NATO's red line should be Russia current borders. not an inch of occupied territory should be accepted as Russian. South Ossetia, Crimea, etc etc. squeeze russia for 300 years if necessary until it withdraws

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## J dud

Vergennes said:


> LMAO
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514380134706515975


Is it a large combat ship ? Then this is a serious escalation of the war. Very bad news. Russia getting cornered is not good thing for the world. 

West needs to try for a peace deal immediately. Hopefully Russia will also cooperate.


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## Vergennes

J dud said:


> Is it a large combat ship ? Then this is a serious escalation of the war. Very bad news. Russia getting cornered is not good thing for the world.
> 
> West needs to try for a peace deal immediately. Hopefully Russia will also cooperate.



The Moskva is the black sea fleet's flagship.

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## Oldman1

J dud said:


> Is it a large combat ship ? Then this is a serious escalation of the war. Very bad news. Russia getting cornered is not good thing for the world.
> 
> West needs to try for a peace deal immediately. Hopefully Russia will also cooperate.


Its a cruiser, I guess you can call it a large combat ship.

In response to Russia getting cornered which is kind of stupid considering how large the country is.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Ghanima or trophies or whatever you want to call them....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514301042586001419

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## J dud

If this ship is destroyed. There will be a large casualties. And as this is the flagship of the fleet ,its loss cannot be hidden. This will cause humiliation of russian state.

Now is the time for a peace deal. Further escalation will increase the chances of the war spilling over. I hope western countries are able see this and immediately try for peace.



Oldman1 said:


> Its a cruiser, I guess you can call it a large combat ship.
> 
> In response to Russia getting cornered which is kind of stupid considering how large the country is.


Putin has surely been cornered. The president of Russia cannot stop the war unless he has some face saving achievement.

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## Oldman1

J dud said:


> If this ship is destroyed. There will be a large casualties. And as this is the flagship of the fleet ,its loss cannot be hidden. This will cause humiliation of russian state.
> 
> Now is the time for a peace deal. Further escalation will increase the chances of the war spilling over. I hope western countries are able see this and immediately try for peace.
> 
> 
> Putin has surely been cornered. The president of Russia cannot stop the war unless he has some face saving achievement.


Thats on Putin if he decides he should sue for peace. Ukraine is the one killing the Russians.


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## thetutle

J dud said:


> If this ship is destroyed. There will be a large casualties. And as this is the flagship of the fleet ,its loss cannot be hidden. This will cause humiliation of russian state.
> 
> Now is the time for a peace deal. Further escalation will increase the chances of the war spilling over. I hope western countries are able see this and immediately try for peace.
> 
> 
> Putin has surely been cornered. The president of Russia cannot stop the war unless he has some face saving achievement.


No, I think he needs to be humiliated even more. No peace deal until he has withdrawn from Ukraine or Ukraine agrees to hand over territory. 

If he wants to expand the war, there is no way to stop that except to destroy his aggressive army. And NATO will do that if he decides to expand the war. 

There should be no off ramp for this guy.

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## patero

From the Wikipedia page:









Slava-class cruiser - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org






NameLaid downLaunchedCommissionedStatusPictureNotes_Moskva_
(ex-_Slava_)197619791982On fire

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514339222118883334

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## J dud

Oldman1 said:


> Thats on Putin if he decides he should sue for peace. Ukraine is the one killing the Russians.


Yes but west needs to help Russia to get a face saving deal.

For example, during the last days of the US war in Afghanistan if the taliban out carried any attacks that caused significant casualties for the US side, the war would not have ended. There would be too much pressure in US for retaliation.


This is something i fear for ukraine as well. West needs to understand this and try for peace.

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## Oldman1

Vergennes said:


> The Moskva is the black sea fleet's flagship.
> 
> View attachment 834071












This was the day before. Coincidence?

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## CAPRICORN-88

The US admits to spreading LIES about Ukraine War.

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## Oldman1

J dud said:


> Yes but west needs to help Russia to get a face saving deal.
> 
> For example, during the last days of the US war in Afghanistan if the taliban out carried any attacks that caused significant casualties for the US side, the war would not have ended. There would be too much pressure in US for retaliation.
> 
> 
> This is something i fear for ukraine as well. West needs to understand this and try for peace.


No that's different, the Taliban allowed the U.S. to leave without having to attack American forces, it doesn't make sense to attack them considering the U.S. was leaving. It be like attacking the Russians when they agreed to pull out of Ukraine, this is not the same thing.


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## thetutle

J dud said:


> Yes but west needs to help Russia to get a face saving deal.
> 
> For example, during the last days of the US war in Afghanistan if the taliban out carried any attacks that caused significant casualties for the US side, the war would not have ended. There would be too much pressure in US for retaliation.
> 
> 
> This is something i fear for ukraine as well. West needs to understand this and try for peace.


There is no point in the war ending If russia remains a threat to others, This needs to keep going until western an ukranian objectives are reached,

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Oldman1 said:


> This was the day before. Coincidence?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514327117969989633

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514368421944872969


----------



## thetutle

Looks like Russians made. tactical withdrawal from their cruiser in the Black Sea. This is all planned and part of their strategy. It was a diversion. The ship is very old and the missiles that hit it are much more expensive, Its was a way to eliminate ukarin's anti ship missiles. Mission successfully accomplished, Ukraine has just lost 2 missiles.

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## J dud

thetutle said:


> There is no point in the war ending If russia remains a threat to others, This needs to keep going until western an ukranian objectives are reached,



I don't know how that ends. Rational decision for Russia in that case is to stop the war and accept whatever deal they have in front. 

But Russia hasnt acted rational , did they ? This is what i fear.


----------



## thetutle

J dud said:


> I don't know how that ends. Rational decision for Russia in that case is to stop the war and accept whatever deal they have in front.
> 
> But Russia hasnt acted rational , did they ? This is what i fear.


There is no deal in front of the Russians. At the moment they can stay and occupy or withdraw. Putin cant withdraw without losing power. So he will stay and bring russia down with him. He should be supported in this strategy. 

I down see how things can go back to the way they were before the invasion. He has changed the world order. 

Things can only end with an expanded NATO, a free Ukraine as a part of EU and possibly NATO, and Russian regime change. 

This might not happen soon, but things will be like this until this does happen.

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## ARMalik

dBSPL said:


> Turkey will veto Sweden's membership request.



Is this certain?


----------



## SalarHaqq

*In a break with the past, U.S. is using intel to fight an info war with Russia, even when the intel isn't rock solid*

*“It doesn’t have to be solid intelligence,” one U.S. official said. “It’s more important to get out ahead of them [the Russians], Putin specifically, before they do something."*

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/na...nfo-war-russia-even-intel-isnt-rock-rcna23014

_______

Straight from the horse's mouth, a cruelly damning admission: US regime officials tell American propaganda outlet NBC News that in their propaganda war against Russia, they will not shy away from citing shaky intelligence.

Translation: they will lie through their teeth as with the inexistent Iraqi WMD in 2003.

And they still have the nerve, in 2022, to claim that this sort of a practice represents a "break with the past", when they have amply demonstrated to every objective observer that this is, to the contrary, the very essence of their modus operandi.

After this, anyone still placing trust in mainstream media and buying into hollow US and NATO narratives about Russia's military operation in Ukraine, is a genuinely hopeless case.

Pompeo unashamedly spelled out the supreme guiding principle of US policy:






While the regime officials who talked to NBC News reminded us of the fact that the latest American propaganda campaign, namely the one on Russia and Ukraine, does not derogate from the rule.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514379357615177731
Wow


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## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514379357615177731
> Wow


They will investigate the source of the fire. Thats literally the definition of "they dont know what hit them".

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514388806467788801


----------



## Paul2

It seems Russians keep sending their forces through Izyum gap in piecemeal portions again.

Huge losses from single detached convoys keeping coming into killboxes.

Losses: 1-2 armour/mechanised BTGs, depending on if they got separate units, or split parts of 1 BTG

They did not wait to accumulate enough force. Yesterday it was too, 2-3 companies ventured into a known killbox, and got killboxed accordingly.

Russia loses tanks, and armour in general at ridiculous rate.

If Ukrainians physically destroyed 20% of all Russian hardware in the theatre, it means really a lot of reconstituted units. I don't preclude a digit in between 20%-30% of Russian units being a mix-and-match of previously beaten, depleted, and called off units.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514406371206250497

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## CAPRICORN-88

They shoot people

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## mmr

thetutle said:


> NATO's red line should be Russia current borders. not an inch of occupied territory should be accepted as Russian. South Ossetia, Crimea, etc etc. squeeze russia for 300 years if necessary until it withdraws


Until russia become north korea v2



J dud said:


> Is it a large combat ship ? Then this is a serious escalation of the war. Very bad news. Russia getting cornered is not good thing for the world.
> 
> West needs to try for a peace deal immediately. Hopefully Russia will also cooperate.


Its good news for the world. 

West need to send as many weapons possible.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514383867519643650

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## thetutle

mmr said:


> Until russia become north korea v2


until russia becomes North Korea v2 *again.*



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514383867519643650


Russia in inevstiagtig the cause of the blast. We will probably never know, except that this was all according to a brilliant plan. Scott Ritter will explain. This may be one greatest diversions of all time. As good as the Kiev division. Instead of focusing on Donbas, the Ukrainians are focusing their attention on old useless Russian ships.

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## F-22Raptor

thetutle said:


> until russia becomes North Korea v2 *again.*
> 
> 
> Russia in inevstiagtig the cause of the blast. We will probably never know, except that this was all according to a brilliant plan. Scott Ritter will explain. This may be one greatest diversions of all time. As good as the Kiev division. Instead of focusing on Donbas, the Ukrainians are focusing their attention on old useless Russian ships.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514398732611211271

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## CAPRICORN-88

*Lesson* Is:

Don't draw your conclusion based on edited version of clips uploaded by *one side. *

Russian military personnels are not allowed to carry their mobile handphones. So there are little or no uploads by them. 

The next most important question to us observers is: 
IF the Ukrainian soldiers were so successful in the war then why is Russia forces still advancing and taking one city after after?

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## thetutle

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *Lesson* Is:
> 
> Don't draw your conclusion based on edited version of clips uploaded by *one side. *
> 
> Russian military personnels are not allowed to carry their mobile handphones. So there are little or no uploads by them.
> 
> The next most important question to us observers is:
> IF the Ukrainian soldiers were so successful in the war then why is Russia forces still advancing and taking one city after after?


Exactly. And the Russian ship is apparently on fire, and some say its sunk. How can it be on fire and sunk at the same time. Its all NATO lies. 

The truth is Russians have no ships, they are all inflatable decoys. No Russian ships was destroyed. 

Also, Russia will avenge this cowardly ship sinking.

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## Paul2




----------



## Paul2

3523 also interesting now


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514389336854351880

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514308429136936968


----------



## LeGenD

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *Lesson* Is:
> 
> Don't draw your conclusion based on edited version of clips uploaded by *one side. *
> 
> Russian military personnels are not allowed to carry their mobile handphones. So there are little or no uploads by them.
> 
> The next most important question to us observers is:
> IF the Ukrainian soldiers were so successful in the war then why is Russia forces still advancing and taking one city after after?



You sure about that?

Russian *PLAN A* was to topple Zelenskky administration *but* Ukrainian forces defeated Russian forces in Northern sectors of the country.









Ukraine Situation Report: Kyiv Region Now Fully In Government Control According To Defense Official


After five weeks of fierce fighting, Ukraine has officially rebuffed Moscow's attempt to sack Kyiv, at least for now.




www.thedrive.com













Destination Disaster: Russia’s Failure At Hostomel Airport







www.oryxspioenkop.com










Does NOT looks like _"Russia forces still advancing and taking one city after after"_ to me.

Russian *PLAN B* is to annex Donbas. Russian forces are regrouping for renewed push into Donbas in accordance.

Russian forces might take Mariupol but Ukrainian forces will counterattack from another direction when possible.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514389921586372611

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## Meengla

J dud said:


> Yes but west needs to help Russia to get a face saving deal.
> 
> For example, during the last days of the US war in Afghanistan if the taliban out carried any attacks that caused significant casualties for the US side, the war would not have ended. There would be too much pressure in US for retaliation.
> 
> 
> This is something i fear for ukraine as well. West needs to understand this and try for peace.



There is no 'West'. Only the Americans and their reliable poodle the UK. And they can go back to their island nations if $hit hits the fan. All here jumping up and down about 'freedom and democracy' and 'oligarchs' or 'Nazis' would pack up and go home when the Americans decide to end this war.
Looks like Mariupol is about to fall; EVEN NY Times is saying this: 'By coming week'.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514396384161673225

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## CAPRICORN-88

thetutle said:


> Exactly. And the Russian ship is apparently on fire, and some say its sunk. How can it be on fire and sunk at the same time. Its all NATO lies.
> 
> The truth is Russians have no ships, they are all inflatable decoys. No Russian ships was destroyed.
> 
> Also, Russia will avenge this cowardly ship sinking.


The problem is within YOU. 

According to what I read, Russia has never denied it and confirmed it was on fire but the rest of the story you people speculated is irking the rest of us. 

What are so eager to prove you are right and a victory by one side.


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## mmr

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514311238913826818

 love the wiki edit 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514411780222730246

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514434478629957633

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## Messerschmitt

Nothing to see here comrades... The Moskva successfully intercepted an Ukrainian anti-ship missile. Everything is going according to plan.

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## F-22Raptor

Messerschmitt said:


> Nothing to see here comrades... The Moskva successfully intercepted an Ukrainian anti-ship missile. Everything is going according to plan.



The Ukrainians had ONE battery of Neptune missiles


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## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> The Ukrainians had ONE battery of Neptune missiles


Imagine once anti ship weapons start to flow....

russian navy will be fucked

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## DF41

beijingwalker said:


> It's equally amazing that US still managed to lose Korean war, Vietnam war, and most recently , Afghanistan.


 Neither did USA win in Somalia either 






Did USA win in Iraq?

USA said they won 

Like Tojo claiming win for Japan after TORA TORA TORA

USA tried and tried to kill Sadr and his supporters.
And this the final result in Iraq






The only wars USA won since WW2 were wars USA fought against Panama, Nicaragua and Grenada.

USA would not have won WW2 if USSR had not taken on the bulk and cream of Hitler forces leaving USA and UK to take on the German invalids send to defend Europe. China with knives and single shot bolt rifles assigned 6 bullets to a gun if lucky to have gun took out 3,000,000 of Japanese armed forces in China. USA with battleships and carriers and planes and automatic rifles and unlimited ammo took out 300,000++ Japs in the Pacific War.


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## CAPRICORN-88

The lesson is still:

(No Plan A or Plan B as nobody knew of Russia actual battle plans. Just pure speculation.)

So one should not draw any conclusion based in what we read on the surface today and at this moment.

For Instance: Ukraine reminds of of the 1960's South Vietnam after an elected President Diem was overthrown later assassinated in a coup d'etat by General Big Minh orchestrated wnd supported by the US.
US sends its troop and got involved in a long endless battle in South Vietnam and against the North.
General Doung Van Minh was in fact a very corrupted and powerful figure in South Vietnam. Same applied to Zalensky today.

One may speculated as much as they wants but the end result may not be want what they desire.

I am just an observer.


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## gambit

DF41 said:


> Neither did USA win in Somalia either
> 
> Did USA win in Iraq?
> 
> USA said they won


Sorry, everything you listed were 'special military operations'.

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## DF41

nang2 said:


> Don't respond to me with Twitter content. Or I just ignore you.




I did that to him , and others like him long time ago.
So that they can stew in the dark out of my sight.
Leaving the much wiser discussions in PDF away from their bigoted and malign backstabbings.


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## Primus

Damn it Russia, you lost one of my favourite looking ships in the world

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## CAPRICORN-88

Russian Defense Ministry says fire broke out on naval cruiser Moskva​Ukrainian military had earlier claimed that it struck warship with 2 missiles​Ahmet Gencturk |14.04.2022

*ANKARA *

A fire broke on the Russian Black Sea fleet flagship cruiser Moskva, Russia’s Defense Ministry said early Thursday.

"As a result of a fire, ammunition exploded on the Moskva missile cruiser. The ship was seriously damaged. The crew was completely evacuated,” the ministry said in a statement.

It added that the cause of the fire is under investigation.

Late Wednesday, Maksym Marchenko, the head of Ukraine’s Odessa Regional Military Administration, said the Ukrainian military had struck the warship with two Neptune class anti-ship missiles, causing severe damage.

The Moskva is the lead ship of the Project 1164 Atlant class of guided missile cruisers in the Russian Navy. It was put into operation in 1983 under the name "Glory." In 1996, the cruiser received its current name.

The ship’s armament included Bazalt and Vulcan anti-ship missiles as well as S-300 long-range air-defense missiles.

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## CAPRICORN-88

DF41 said:


> Neither did USA win in Somalia either
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did USA win in Iraq?
> 
> USA said they won
> 
> Like Tojo claiming win for Japan after TORA TORA TORA
> 
> USA tried and tried to kill Sadr and his supporters.
> And this the final result in Iraq
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only wars USA won since WW2 were wars USA fought against Panama, Nicaragua and Grenada.
> 
> USA would not have won WW2 if USSR had not taken on the bulk and cream of Hitler forces leaving USA and UK to take on the German invalids send to defend Europe. China with knives and single shot bolt rifles assigned 6 bullets to a gun if lucky to have gun took out 3,000,000 of Japanese armed forces in China. USA with battleships and carriers and planes and automatic rifles and unlimited ammo took out 300,000++ Japs in the Pacific War.



The Pentagon must be reading this news with much distress.

IF it is true Ukraine's supersonic Neptune, a modified KH35 can hit and sink the Russian Navy Moskva cruiser, what will happened to their navy off the coast of China and in her backyard.

Although IMO the Moskva is a dated warships like many should to be decommissioned.

There have been far to many incidence of fire on Russian warships.

So what the Chinese Colonels were saying may be true.

All it takes is just 4 direct missiles hit and it is all over for any US Aircraft Carrier.

Mind you, China missiles are HYPERSONIC and more deadly as they can't be detected until it is too late.

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## mmr

russian will rather be happy they lost the flagship navy asset due to there idiot navy man blow it up by them self ... rather then admit it was hit by ukrnaians lmao

hmm wonder did they got drunk and set it self on fire ha ha...very professional lol


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## CAPRICORN-88

Th future is looking bright for China trade with Russia. Exports keep on rising. 

It may includes weaponries imported from China.

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## thetutle

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Russian Defense Ministry says fire broke out on naval cruiser Moskva
> 
> A fire broke on the Russian Black Sea fleet flagship cruiser Moskva, Russia’s Defense Ministry said early Thursday.
> 
> "As a result of a fire, ammunition exploded on the Moskva missile cruiser. The ship was seriously damaged. The crew was completely evacuated,” the ministry said in a statement.


It’s like saying, “he died of sudden deacceleration of his aerial speed” and not mentioning that he fell out of a plane. 


CAPRICORN-88 said:


> The ship’s armament included Bazalt and Vulcan anti-ship missiles as well as S-300 long-range air-defense missiles.


We can see how useful these systems are.



CAPRICORN-88 said:


> The Pentagon must be reading this news with much distress.
> 
> IF it is true Ukraine's supersonic Neptune, a modified KH35 can hit and sink the Russina Navy Moskva cruiser, what will happened to their navy off the coast of China and in her backyard.


I guess the pentagon will worry only to the extent they are using Russian Atlant class cruisers.

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## CAPRICORN-88

thetutle said:


> It’s like saying, “he died of sudden deacceleration of his aerial speed” and not mentioning that he fell out of a plane.
> 
> We can see how useful these systems are.
> 
> 
> I guess the pentagon will worry only to the extent they are using Russian Atlant class cruisers.


Stop making me laughed with your childish reply. 

Only another child will go along with these type of argument.


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## monitor

Ukraine's struck on Moskva cruiser is confirmed by the Russian news agencies.

Russia is the first country losing its flagship against a state which doesn't have a naval force.

RIP MoKova😛


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## CAPRICORN-88

I guess that is why the US is not scared and have to threaten China not to supply any of their weapons to Russia.

Are Chinese weapons GAME CHANGER?


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## sammuel

​~​
confirmed :
​Russia says blast cripples Black Sea flagship, Ukraine claims missile strike​





A satellite image shows a view of Russian Navy's guided missile cruiser Moskva at port, in Sevastopol, Crimea, April 7, 2022. Picture taken April 7, 2022. Satellite image 2022 Maxar Technologies/Handout via REUTERS


KYIV/LVIV, Ukraine, April 14 (Reuters) - Russia said on Thursday the flagship of its Black Sea fleet was seriously damaged and its crew evacuated following an explosion that a Ukrainian official said was the result of a missile strike.

Russia's defence ministry said a fire on the Moskva missile cruiser caused ammunition to blow up, Interfax news agency reported.

It did not say what caused the fire but Maksym Marchenko, the Ukrainian governor of the region around the Black Sea port of Odesa, said the Moskva had been hit by two Ukrainian-made Neptune anti-ship cruise missiles.

"Neptune missiles guarding the Black Sea caused very serious damage," he said in an online post.

Ukraine's defence ministry did not respond to a request for comment and Reuters was unable to verify either side's claims.

The Moskva is the second major ship known to have suffered serious damage since the start of the war. Last month Ukraine said it had destroyed a landing support ship, the Orsk, on the smaller Sea of Azov.

Russia's navy has launched cruise missiles into Ukraine and its activities in the Black Sea are crucial to supporting land operations in the south of the country, where it is battling to seize full control of the port of Mariupol.

Russian news agencies said the Moskva, commissioned in 1983, was armed with 16 anti-ship Vulkan cruise missiles with a range of at least 700 km (440 miles).











Russia says blast cripples Black Sea flagship, Ukraine claims missile strike


Russia said on Thursday the flagship of its Black Sea fleet was seriously damaged and its crew evacuated following an explosion that a Ukrainian official said was the result of a missile strike.




www.reuters.com


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## CAPRICORN-88

monitor said:


> Ukraine's struck on Moskva cruiser is confirmed by the Russian news agencies.
> 
> Russia is the first country losing its flagship against a state which doesn't have a naval force.
> 
> RIP MoKova😛


AFAIK they did not.

They only confirmed that there was a fire.

Care to share a link from Russia Ministry of Defense with us for our information.


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## Viet

mmr said:


> russian will rather be happy they lost the flagship navy asset due to there idiot navy man blow it up by them self ... rather then admit it was hit by ukrnaians lmao
> 
> hmm wonder did they got drunk and set it self on fire ha ha...very professional lol


It’s all about face. The Russians behave no different to some folks in Far East. Antiship missiles are feared weapons. Much like antitank missiles. This flagship cruiser is old. time to scrap it. Putin should acknowledge the loss and move on.

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## Viet

LeGenD said:


> You sure about that?
> 
> Russian *PLAN A* was to topple Zelenskky administration *but* Ukrainian forces defeated Russian forces in Northern sectors of the country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine Situation Report: Kyiv Region Now Fully In Government Control According To Defense Official
> 
> 
> After five weeks of fierce fighting, Ukraine has officially rebuffed Moscow's attempt to sack Kyiv, at least for now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Destination Disaster: Russia’s Failure At Hostomel Airport
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.oryxspioenkop.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does NOT looks like _"Russia forces still advancing and taking one city after after"_ to me.
> 
> Russian *PLAN B* is to annex Donbas. Russian forces are regrouping for renewed push into Donbas in accordance.
> 
> Russian forces might take Mariupol but Ukrainian forces will counterattack from another direction when possible.


After 22 year Putin rule Russians become a folk of liars. Lavrov is the world’s most famous liar.


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## DF41

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> The Pentagon must be reading this news with much distress.
> 
> IF it is true Ukraine's supersonic Neptune, a modified KH35 can hit and sink the Russian Navy Moskva cruiser, what will happened to their navy off the coast of China and in her backyard.
> 
> Although IMO the Moskva is a dated warships like many should to be decommissioned.
> 
> There have been far to many incidence of fire on Russian warships.
> 
> So what the Chinese Colonels were saying may be true.
> 
> All it takes is just 4 direct missiles hit and it is all over for any US Aircraft Carrier.
> 
> Mind you, China missiles are HYPERSONIC and more deadly as they can't be detected until it is too late.




Correction, or just a mere difference in opinion.

A hit from Chinese AShCM will be sufficient for it to be over for any USA carrier.

But it is more likely Chinese be firing 100 such missiles at single USA carrier. As well as raining DF21s DF26s from high above.

No shit about bulkheads and spaces to contain the hellfire that will likely engulf the entire carrier.


And not just the warhead, there will be 2–3 tons of missiles coming behind the warhead at Mach 3 tearing into the bulkheads and ordnance and aviation fuel and the poor men and women in the carrier. Those 2–3 tons of missile body will be tearing in the bulkheads faster and more deadly then APFSDS. Andf carrying its own unburned fuel to add to the fun.
Even steel will burn when hit with hell fire and tons of steel and debris coming in at Mach 3. The aviation fuel, and paint on walls, the bombs and ordnance will all cook off and add to the huge huge fire inside the carrier. Regardless if carrier under Condition Zebra or Donkey or Jackass.
The brave sailors in those carriers will not care or worry and be happy that their carrier not sinking. And only burning and burning from one end to the other end.















Chinese have about 3,000 of these kind of AShCMs.

In the form of Mach 3–4 YJ-12s carrying 400–500 semi shaped charge warheads, fired outside the AEGIS cover. The YJ-12 can also do evasive maneuvers to avoid anti-missile threats.

YJ-12 - Wikipedia

There is also the YJ-18 with reach exceeding Aegis cover. YJ-18 will start off at sub Mach 1. Until about 20 km from target , it will sprint at Mach 3–4 to deliver good news to the carrier .

China's YJ-18 Supersonic Anti-Ship Cruise Missile: America's Nightmare?

This Chinese description relates that the missile’s great strength is its “亚超结合的独特动力” [subsonic and supersonic combined unique propulsion]. Another term applied to this design is “双速制反舰导弹” [dual speed control ASCM]. As explained in the article, it is projected that YJ-18 would have an initial subsonic phase estimated at .8 Mach similar to the Klub of about 180km, but 20km from the target would unleash the supersonic sprint vehicle at speed of Mach 2.5 to 3. The “dual speed” function allows the system to realize certain advantages of subsonic cruise missiles, such as their “relatively long range, light weight and universality …” but also takes the chief advantage of supersonic ASCMs as well, namely the ability to “大幅压缩敌方的反应时间” [radically compress the enemy’s reaction time].

The Chinese article relates another advantage of the “dual speed” approach. Just as the missile comes into contact with the ship’s defenses, it “sheds the medium stage …,” thus simultaneously and dramatically altering both its speed and also its radar reflection, “which would impact the fire control calculation.” The likelihood that YJ-18 improves upon the Klub missile’s “digitization, automation, as well as providing more intelligent flight control and navigation technology” is attributed in the Chinese article to a recent Jane’s report.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514284502964744202

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514285355209572355

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514286316133011464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514338527009513474

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514358741319225360

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## serenity

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Stop making me laughed with your childish reply.
> 
> Only another child will go along with these type of argument.



Reel it back man. US navy is much larger and stronger than Russian navy. Old Slava that has not modernized unlike their other two, only have one fire control radar with limited angle coverage and two ancient old search radars. USN and PLAN ships have modern AESAs and in China's case, dual band AESAs that cover all quadrants at the same time and can engage, search track, and provide fire control solution for guidance on dozens of targets. You shouldn't use Russia's oldest ship as a measure of US newer ones. Even for Russia this ship has not been modernized like the other two still in service of this class.

China hasn't and will not be sending military equipment unless it is getting involved in this war which is ridiculous and only foolish folks think China wants anything to do with a European war it can benefit nothing from even if full victory and half of Eastern Europe goes to Russia.

Military sales is not welcome by Russia as it would make them look bad so they feel anyway and also the cost of that would be intense western economic action against China. There's just no point.


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## Hack-Hook

J dud said:


> Is it a large combat ship ? Then this is a serious escalation of the war. Very bad news. Russia getting cornered is not good thing for the world.
> 
> West needs to try for a peace deal immediately. Hopefully Russia will also cooperate.


the war already escalated , how hitting a ship can be considered as escalation ?

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## CAPRICORN-88

serenity said:


> Reel it back man. US navy is much larger and stronger than Russian navy. Old Slava that has not modernized unlike their other two, only have one fire control radar with limited angle coverage and two ancient old search radars. USN and PLAN ships have modern AESAs and in China's case, dual band AESAs that cover all quadrants at the same time and can engage, search track, and provide fire control solution for guidance on dozens of targets. You shouldn't use Russia's oldest ship as a measure of US newer ones. Even for Russia this ship has not been modernized like the other two still in service of this class.
> 
> China hasn't and will not be sending military equipment unless it is getting involved in this war which is ridiculous and only foolish folks think China wants anything to do with a European war it can benefit nothing from even if full victory and half of Eastern Europe goes to Russia.
> 
> Military sales is not welcome by Russia as it would make them look bad so they feel anyway and also the cost of that would be intense western economic action against China. There's just no point.


That is not what I am even laughing about.


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## bobo6661

gambit said:


> Sorry, everything you listed were 'special military operations'.


Think from now on all wars will be called special operations 



mmr said:


> russian will rather be happy they lost the flagship navy asset due to there idiot navy man blow it up by them self ... rather then admit it was hit by ukrnaians lmao
> 
> hmm wonder did they got drunk and set it self on fire ha ha...very professional lol


Yee that puzzels me, its was the same with fuel depo that ukraine hit 


Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514284502964744202
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514285355209572355
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514286316133011464
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514338527009513474
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514358741319225360


Nazi everywhere says "defintly" not a nazi state


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## CAPRICORN-88

Right now I am also laughing at this as well.
Yallen has convinced herself that the *Rule based International Order* by the US is really International Law.

She better start working at the US inflation at 8.2% which many experts have openly disagreed. They said it is as high as 20%. Action against China will only exacerbate the US economy.

Yes. It is true China has allowed the RMB exchange rate to rise and exporters are increasing their prices.

So is threatening China over Russia helpful to the US?

_U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen warns countries subverting sanctions imposed on Russia that they'll face consequences for their actions. "Sanctioning countries will not be indifferent to actions that undermine the sanctions," she said. (April 13) _
Source: AP


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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514483451805802496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514396384161673225


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## kenyannoobie

I haven't read every post but imo its time to look deeper into things. I did some research and was like OMFG,these guys,the Caucasus people,which incl the Crimeans have never known more than a decade of peace!






https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peoples_of_the_Caucasus

The *Caucasus* (/ˈkɔːkəsəs/), or *Caucasia*[3][4] (/kɔːˈkeɪʒə/), is a region between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea; mainly comprising Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, and parts of Southern Russia. The Caucasus Mountains, including the Greater Caucasus range, have historically been considered as a natural barrier between Eastern Europe and Western Asia.[5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasus

The Caucasus is also the homeland of the Chosenites now in Palestine screeching how Yahweh gave them and ONLY them the Promised Land for ever and ever,






Ofc,over centuries the borders varied but that was the basic homeland of the Khazars til Slavic king Sviatoslav revved them out for good for their constant criminality incl extortion,identity theft and other ishyt.

Peering further into history:

The original Caucasus since prehistory has been a zone of mass warfare,genocide and low level insurgency. Looking at the history it seems like a chronicle of slaughter briefly interrupted by occasional peace. Since the early 1800s there've been at least 10 major wars. 



> The caucasian War (Russian: Кавказская война; Kavkazskaya vojna) of 1817–1864 was an invasion of the Caucasus by the Russian Empire which resulted in Russia's annexation of the areas of the North Caucasus, and the ethnic cleansing of Circassians. It consisted of a series of military actions and atrocities waged by the Empire against the native peoples of the Caucasus including the Chechens, Adyghe, Abkhaz–Abaza, Ubykhs, Kumyks and Dagestanians as Russia sought to expand.[6] Among the Muslims, resistance to the Russians was described as jihad.[7]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_War

*Fyi,that was a 50 yr campaign!*



> The Russo-Turkish War of 1877–1878 (Turkish: 93 Harbi, lit. 'War of ’93', named for the year 1293 in the Islamic calendar; Bulgarian: Руско–турска Освободителна война, romanized: Rusko-turska Osvoboditelna vojna, "Russian–Turkish Liberation war"
> 
> 
> 
> was a conflict between the Ottoman Empire and the Eastern Orthodox coalition led by the Russian Empire and composed of Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia, and Montenegro.[9] *Fought in the Balkans and in the Caucasus, it originated in emerging 19th-century Balkan nationalism.*


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Turkish_War_(1877–1878)

A 100,000 Turks died in this war that gave birth to Bulgaria.



> *The Russo-Circassian War (1763–1864) involved a series of battles and wars in Circassia, the northwestern part of the Caucasus,* during the course of the Russian Empire's conquest of the Caucasus. Those who use the term Russian–Circassian War take its starting date as 1763, when the Russians began establishing forts, including at Mozdok, to be used as springboards for conquest; [6] *and only ending approximately 101 years later, with the signing of loyalty oaths by Circassian leaders on 2 June [O.S. 21 May] 1864.*


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Circassian_War

This may have been a true genocide. Nearly 4 mn died during the fighting while at least 0.5 mn Caucasians were deported.

The Russo-Persian War of 1826–1828 was the last major military conflict between the Russian Empire and Iran.



> After the Treaty of Gulistan that concluded the previous Russo-Persian War in 1813,* peace reigned in the Caucasus for thirteen years.* However, Fath 'Ali Shah, constantly in need of foreign subsidies, relied on the advice of British agents, who pressed him to reconquer the territories lost to Russia and pledged their support for military action.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Persian_War_(1826–1828)

The first war with the Persians in which Vlad gained Daghestan.



> The Russo-Persian War of 1722–1723, known in Russian historiography as the Persian campaign of Peter the Great,[9] was a war between the Russian Empire and Safavid Iran, *triggered by the tsar's attempt to expand Russian influence in the Caspian and Caucasus regions and t*o prevent its rival, the Ottoman Empire, from territorial gains in the region at the expense of declining Safavid Iran


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Persian_War_(1722–1723)

Ofc,during WW1 there was no peace!



> *The Caucasus campaign comprised armed conflicts between the Russian Empire and the Ottoman Empire, later including Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Mountainous Republic of the Northern Caucasus, *the German Empire, the Central Caspian Dictatorship, and the British Empire, as part of the Middle Eastern theatre during World War I. The Caucasus campaign extended from the South Caucasus to the Armenian Highlands region, reaching as far as Trabzon, Bitlis, Mush and Van. The land warfare was accompanied by the Russian navy in the Black Sea Region of the Ottoman Empire.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasus_campaign

After communism collapsed there were the 1st and 2nd Chechen wars which bled into a new conflict in neighbouring Dagestan late 90s. Nagorno-Karabakh involved competing Armenians and Azeri border claims with Shlomo supporting the latter at the same time. By the standards of the Caucasus it was a minor quarrel with only 50,000 killed in the 3 different wars in the early 90s,mid 90s and 2010-16.



> The Nagorno-Karabakh conflict is a territorial and ethnic conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan over the disputed region of Nagorno-Karabakh and seven surrounding districts, which are de facto controlled by the self-declared Republic of Artsakh, but are internationally recognized as de jure part of Azerbaijan. The conflict has its origins in the early 20th century. Under the Soviet Union, Joseph Stalin decided to make the Nagorno-Karabakh region an autonomous oblast of Soviet Azerbaijan.[18] The present conflict began in 1988, when the Karabakh Armenians demanded that Karabakh be transferred from Soviet Azerbaijan to Soviet Armenia. The conflict escalated into a full-scale war in the early 1990s.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagorno-Karabakh_conflict

Who can forget tiny Georgia provoking the Bear in 2008?






*Look at the map-who does that!?*






At least it gave us one of the earliest memes. Prez Saakashvilli chews tie.





*Its not oil,uranium,gold or even coal! It may be a socio cultural,environmental or maybe even DNA thing-ideally a poster from the region should tell us.
What's happening now is just the latest episode of a long running war lasting over a millennium.*


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## khansaheeb

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514246092837298182


So why is NATO fighting war by proxy, what does it achieve other than millions of refugees and death and destruction? If the West was serious for peace they would have negotiated peace but instead they chose to further fuel and incite the war. Poor Ukrainians have become victims of a sick group of people bent on war and destruction. Like in Syria the suffering is too painful to watch.

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## jamahir

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> _U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen warns countries subverting sanctions imposed on Russia that they'll face consequences for their actions. "Sanctioning countries will not be indifferent to actions that undermine the sanctions," she said. (April 13) _
> Source: AP



So, this terrorist threatens the people of the world ?

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## CAPRICORN-88

As revealed by French Journalist at Zero Hedge who is an eye witness, the US is in fact in command of the Ukrainian operations in Dombass and East Ukraine.

If it is true, that explained why they are so desperate at this point.

With 1000 UKR elite soldiers having rumor to have surrendered, then there will be only approx 2000 of them left and mostly foreign mercenaries.

So who is really in charge of the Ukrainian Military at this moment?

Unverified reports suggested that the AZOV neo-nazi battalion at now hiding in underground bunkers and tunnels in AZOVstal Steelworks and there is a biolab below.

The Russians are now considering flooding them with water.

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## DF41

How China is making a huge profit by selling gas bought from US @US$235 per 1000m³ CIF to EU @^US$3500 per 1000m³!

In October 2021, on the basis of the original Sino-US energy agreement, the US energy giant signed a 20-year natural gas permanent supply contract with China. The unit price of the contract is constant @$235/1000m³. The United States was worried that China will go back on it in the future, and so has set an astronomical amount of liquidated damages if either party defaults on this deal.
After the outbreak of the Russian-Ukrainian war in Feb22, the international natural gas price skyrocketed, reaching $3,500 per thousand cubic meters. However, Russian natural gas was sanctioned by the West and could only be sold to China at a very low price according to the past Sino-Russian natural gas contracts, which directly led to China's import of Russian natural gas in March exceeding the share of the whole of last year.
In consequence, China's natural gas imports from the United States will be grossly in excess. So, what did China do with this excess?
Answer: China sells the US natural gas to the EU at a tenfold price increase.
Furthermore, because the contract price of natural gas between China and the United States is the CIF price, even the freight is saved. It only needs the Chinese side to issue an order, and the US side has to use its own precious ships to transport the Chinese natural gas to Europe for sale.
The Chinese side now earns hundreds of millions of dollars with even a single ship. After more than a month of the Russian-Ukrainian war, China has already sold dozens of ships of American natural gas to Europe at 1000% profit! The profits made by the Chinese side is used by China to reimbursed China’s national vaccine expenses last year and made it richer.
Because the natural gas contracts signed by China and the United States take up a huge share of the total natural gas output in the United States, although the people in the EU are about to riot (Russia used to provide 150 billion cubic meters to the EU every year), the United States can only squeeze out 15 billion cubic meters of natural gas to sell to EU. The EU and the rest of the U.S. can only helplessly watch China as a middleman earning enormously.
It is very strange to say that China was originally a major importer of food and energy, because of the perfect cooperation of the two Presidents of the United States - signing a food and energy export agreement, and setting sky-high liquidated damages. This series of wonderful operations made China unexpectedly become the richest country in the world in wheat and energy, with the largest wheat reserves in the world and so much energy that it can sell to the EU in large quantities.
This result of lying and winning made the Western media jealous, and Bloomberg sourly accused China of making "war money", although China has always been trying to persuade peace and talks.
Ex-President Trump wasted no time to jump in as soon as the Russian-Ukrainian war broke out, to claim that if he was still President, there would have been no war between Russia and Ukraine and thus China would not make such a God-sent profit.
Biden is of course unable to express his sorrows of allowing China, his biggest strategic opponent, to win several rounds by using US natural gas to make EU money.
Other unexpected gains made by China from the War so far are:
1. Russia's grain that cannot be sold to the West has now helped China to build up the world's largest wheat reserve by country; and 
2. A large number of EU safe-haven funds have started flowing into China in the past two months, resulting in increase by as much as 37.9% foreign capital inflows into China year-on-year...
This is probably God's blessing of China for doing good things for mankind!

2021年10月，在原有中美能源协议基础上，美国能源巨头与中国签订了一份二十年天然气永久供应合同，合同单价是恒定的，由美方按照235美元/千立方持续供气给我国，美方担心中方未来反悔，还设定了一个天文数字的违约金。
俄乌战争爆发之后，国际天然气价格一飞冲天，达到3500美元/千立方。但俄罗斯天然气受到西方制裁，只能按照过去中俄天然气合同以非常低的价格卖给我们，直接导致中国3月进口俄罗斯天然气超过去年全年的份额。
这种情况下，中国从美国进口的天然气就过剩了。
怎么办？
只能将美方天然气含泪加价十倍卖给欧盟。
因为中美天然气合同价格是到岸价，所以连运费都省了，只需要中方发出指令，美方还得用宝贵的运气船将中方天然气辛辛苦苦运到欧洲出售。
一艘运气船中方就能赚好几亿美元，俄乌战争打了一个多月，我们就卖给欧洲几十船美国天然气，所获利润把去年中国全民疫苗费用报销还有富裕。
因为中美签订的天然气合同占用了美方巨大的天然气份额，所以虽然欧盟缺气人民都快要暴动了（俄罗斯过去每年给欧盟提供1500亿立方米），美国却只能挤出150亿立方米天然气给欧盟，其余美方天然气份额只能眼睁睁看着中方做中间商赚得手软。
说起来很是奇怪，中国原来是粮食与能源进口大国，因为美国两任总统的完美配合——签订粮食与能源出口协议，设定天价违约金；拱火一手促成了俄乌战争并对俄罗斯实施严厉的制裁。
这一系列妙到巅峰的操作让中国竟然意外成为全球小麦与能源最为富裕的国家，小麦储备全球第一，能源多得能大量卖给欧盟。
这种躺赢的结果让西方媒体看得眼红，彭博社就酸溜溜指责中国发“战争财”，让中国躺着也要中q@
中国明明是一直在劝和促谈好不好？
特朗普很聪明，俄乌战争一爆发，第一时间跳出来声称，如果还是他当总统，俄乌就不会爆发战争。现在回头来看，这不仅是提前撇清自己干系，还将“资中”的屎盆子扣在了拜登头上。
拜登也是有苦说不出，自己使出吃奶的力气拱火俄乌战争，竟让中国这个最大的战略对手躺赢好几轮——用美国的天然气赚欧盟的钱；低价进口美国与俄罗斯粮食成为全球最大小麦储备国；欧盟避险资金大量流入中国——最近两个月，流入中国的外资同比增长高达37.9%……
这大概就是国运吧。

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## khansaheeb

That is one powerful ship easily sunk by a modern missile. Like tanks they are no match for modern missile systems.

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## PakAlp

Oldman1 said:


> No they are not encircled, have you looked at the map lately?


Ukraine has made Russia retreat. Shocking, what is wrong with the mighty bear.


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## Wergeland

khansaheeb said:


> So why is NATO fighting war by proxy, what does it achieve other than millions of refugees and death and destruction? If the West was serious for peace they would have negotiated peace but instead they chose to further fuel and incite the war. Poor Ukrainians have become victims of a sick group of people bent on war and destruction. Like in Syria the suffering is too painful to watch.



NATO is a US construct and by large a US organization.

Europe after WW2 was completely devastated, while the USA was totally intact and profited from the war. After end of WW2 there were really only two countries who had the power and logistics to wield large scale operations in Europe; The Soviet Union and USA. While the US took control of western Europe, the Soviet took control of eastern half of Europe. That was the setup for almost 40 years during the cold war.

After the cold war, Soviet lost control and influence over its posessions in Eastern Europe. The USA OTOH had no reason to give up its posessions in Western Europe, quite the opposite. As the sole remaining power in Europe it could do whatever it wanted and expanded its posessions way up to Russian border, and thats where we are today. Rest is just wish wash mumbo jumbo.

So this conflict, is not a NATO vs Russia conflict. In fact its a continuation of the long standing power struggle between the big boys in town; USA and Russia. European countries are only spectator and mere chess pieces. The players are USA and Russia.

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## CAPRICORN-88

That is why French President Macron was talking about the formation of a new EU Army to be headed by only European. 

One that has no connection or relation to NATO headed by a US Commander and its deputy, a British but never an European.

NATO is by and large a creation by US to counter the Soviet Union Warsaw Pact.

Since Warsaw Pact is already dissolved, NATO is no longer needed.

Its primary purpose is to serve the hegemonic ambition of the US today.


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## jamahir

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> The Russians are now considering flooding them with water.



I celebrate this news.


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## Wergeland

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> That is why French President Macron was talking about the formation of a new EU Army to be headed by only European.
> 
> One that has no connection or relation to NATO headed by a US Commander and its deputy, a British but never an European.
> 
> NATO is by and large a creation by US to counter the Soviet Union Warsaw Pact.
> 
> Since Warsaw Pact is already dissolved, NATO is no longer needed.
> 
> Its primary purpose is to serve the hegemonic ambition of the US today.



I am neither kidding nor trolling when i say this. The reality is that Europe is so cucked that most Europeans are totally oblivious about whats really goin on.

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## Ali_Baba

thetutle said:


> Thats a fair position. Sweden will have to do that if Turkey asks.
> 
> If NATO door is closed I think US and UK will give Sweden and Finland a formal treaty alliance by forming a totally different alliance, Something like ANZUS or the treaty with Japan.



I think both the UK and USA will need to form an alliance separate from NATO as a "bridge" into NATO as the application process and acceptance is so long and Russia can start military operations against both which will then rule out their addition into NATO as they will be countries under conflict etc..

If Turkey is going to veto or have its interests seen to first - hopefully those conversations are happening now so that they can be resolved ahead of any application which must be approved as quickly as possible after the initial application.

Hungary is going to need the royal squeeze on them to make sure they dont veto...

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## Ali_Baba

Oldman1 said:


> This was the day before. Coincidence?



Ukraine managed to marshal her resources for a strike at that ship for sure - it was/is no ammo accident.

Ukraine has been in defensive mode since the start of this war and with the Russian failure in the north, northwest and northeast, they can now go into offensive mode which is what this attack represents. 

Timing is not a coincidence. The morale of the country and armed forces are an important factor in the war and this is time for maximum boosting of morale esp ahead of the bad news coming out of Mariupol.

The transfer of tanks and MLRS and artillery systems is part of transitioning the war from defensive to offensive.


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## Paul2

khansaheeb said:


> That is one powerful ship easily sunk by a modern missile. Like tanks they are no match for modern missile systems.
> 
> View attachment 834160



Raytheon, and Norinco will have bumper sales this year

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## Muhammed45

Paul2 said:


> Raytheon, and Norinco will have bumper sales this year


Possibly hit by Ukrainian developed Neptune AShCM. 






Interesting.


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## Paul2

Muhammed45 said:


> Possibly hit by Ukrainian developed Neptune AShCM.
> View attachment 834181
> 
> 
> Interesting.



Yes, rocket is Ukrainian, but imagine what people are thinking now.

Just 2 missiles from a god forsaken country can sink a capital ship of a superpower, now lets buy more of them, and from a proper supplier.

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## bobo6661

Paul2 said:


> Just 2 missiles from a god forsaken country can sink a capital ship of a superpower, now lets buy more of them, and from a proper supplier.


Guess Indians are sweating like hell now looking on the performance of russian equipment

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## Muhammed45

Paul2 said:


> Yes, rocket is Ukrainian, but imagine what people are thinking now.
> 
> Just 2 missiles from a god forsaken country can sink a capital ship of a superpower, now lets buy more of them, and from a proper supplier.


And people Ask why Iranians focused so much on missile development. 😁

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## Vergennes

Kadyrov tiktok clowns strike again.... and those guys are supposed to be elite forces 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514526806921068546

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## Vergennes

"Russia only sends old stuff to Ukraine,they have invested hundreds of billions on defence,they are keeping their best and new equipments for NATO!!!". 

Who to tell them Russia is so much corrupt most of that money was probably stolen and ended up buying super yachts and mansions in southern France or in london. When they end up selling their soldier's MREs,you gotta imagine the level of corruption in the Russian army.

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## FuturePAF

Ali_Baba said:


> Ukraine managed to marshal her resources for a strike at that ship for sure - it was/is no ammo accident.
> 
> Ukraine has been in defensive mode since the start of this war and with the Russian failure in the north, northwest and northeast, they can now go into offensive mode which is what this attack represents.
> 
> Timing is not a coincidence. The morale of the country and armed forces are an important factor in the war and this is time for maximum boosting of morale esp ahead of the bad news coming out of Mariupol.
> 
> The transfer of tanks and MLRS and artillery systems is part of transitioning the war from defensive to offensive.


With the areas around Kiev securely back in Ukrainian hands, they should definitely go on the offensive and give the Russians a bloody nose on their soil to push the invaders back across the line. With arms support from the western alliance, now is the time to strike before the Russians have fully regrouped for a push deeper into the Ukrainian East.


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## Ali_Baba

Only a matter of time before the pictures start coming out of the ship strike by Ukraine...

It is in the interest of the Russian Navy that this ship sinks - and probably why they abandoned it - as that way - pictures of the missile strikes themselves can be hidden. If it sinks - then they can go to their grave claiming it was an accident. If it is salvaged somehow, then their shame will be for all to see.

Also, given this ship was/is not firing on anything, there was no need for Ammo to be moved around the ship that could have resulted in an accident etc.

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## FuturePAF

bobo6661 said:


> Guess Indians are sweating like hell now looking on the performance of russian equipment


Good, hope Ukraine teaches the Indians a good lesson.

Slava Ukraine


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## Primus

bobo6661 said:


> Guess Indians are sweating like hell now looking on the performance of russian equipment





FuturePAF said:


> Good, hope Ukraine teaches the Indians a good lesson.
> 
> Slava Ukraine


Bruh you can equip the indians with only US weaponry and they will still find a way to crash it, sink it or have it shot down/destroyed. Its not a weapons problem. Its an indian military problem

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## FuturePAF

Huffal said:


> Bruh you can equip the indians with only US weaponry and they will still find a way to crash it, sink it or have it shot down/destroyed. Its not a weapons problem. Its an indian military problem


True


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514533842614423558


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## Foinikas

beijingwalker said:


> It's equally amazing that US still managed to lose Korean war, Vietnam war, and most recently , Afghanistan.


No,USA didn't lose the Korean War. They saved South Korea. 

They didn't lose the Vietnam war militarily,they lost it politically. In the end,it was the South Vietnamese's incompetent government and majority of their officers who lost the war. And here we have to mention that certain ARVN units fought with extreme skill,courage and patriotism to the end.

USA didn't lose the war in Afghanistan,the Afghans lost the war themselves. Because they are corrupt,incompetent and idiotic. The Americans supported a worthless government once again and even though it was failing,they kept giving money and weapons to them. That was their mistake.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514510897296904192


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## Soldier35

Ammunition exploded on the missile cruiser "Moscow". According to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, due to a fire on the missile cruiser "Moscow", a detonation of ammunition occurred, the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet was seriously damaged. Now the ship is afloat, the fire has been extinguished, the explosions of ammunition have stopped. The missile cruiser "Moscow" is planned to be towed to the port






A video of the combat departure of a group of attack helicopters was published by the Russian Defense Ministry. The group consisting of the leading Mi-24 helicopter and the Mi-28N and Ka-52 wingmen performed tasks to support the ground group of troops. During the mission, a Buk missile of Ukraine was fired at the leading Mi-24 helicopter. The Mi-24 dodged the missiles and went to the side, the return fire of the Mi-28N and Ka-52 helicopters, the Ukrainian Buk air defense system was destroyed.


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## Foinikas

Have you guys seen THIS?











@Hassan Al-Somal @jamahir @Ich @Piotr @oberschlesier @Vergennes @F-22Raptor @mmr @Hack-Hook @nang2 @jhungary 
@CAPRICORN-88 @beast89 @Hydration @IblinI

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514564434504687621


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514397296582082567

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Kadyrov tiktok clowns strike again.... and those guys are supposed to be elite forces
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514526806921068546



It looks like manufacturing and spreading fake news is the motto for the Zelenskyites.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514563869825449987

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## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514397296582082567


First Ukraine need lot more anti ship weapons from uk and usa to keep sinking pathetic Russian navy assets.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The Russian air force has complete air supremacy over the Ukrainian skies. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514558962410082313

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## Ali_Baba

Putin's defence minister Sergei Shoigu has had a 'massive heart attack not from natural causes' and TWENTY generals 'have been arrested' over bungled invasion​








Putin's defence minister Sergei Shoigu has had 'massive heart attack'


Shoigu, Putin's right hand man and leader of the Russian army for a decade, was a mainstay in the early weeks of the war in Ukraine but recently disappeared from Kremlin briefings.




www.dailymail.co.uk


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## mmr

Ali_Baba said:


> Putin's defence minister Sergei Shoigu has had a 'massive heart attack not from natural causes' and TWENTY generals 'have been arrested' over bungled invasion​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin's defence minister Sergei Shoigu has had 'massive heart attack'
> 
> 
> Shoigu, Putin's right hand man and leader of the Russian army for a decade, was a mainstay in the early weeks of the war in Ukraine but recently disappeared from Kremlin briefings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk


Putin blaming everyone except him self Lol 


Typical dictators

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514199567205556225
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514200983332601860
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514202743233204230
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514204192071720961





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514513462243831811


----------



## Hydration

Foinikas said:


> Have you guys seen THIS?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Hassan Al-Somal @jamahir @Ich @Piotr @oberschlesier @Vergennes @F-22Raptor @mmr @Hack-Hook @nang2 @jhungary
> @CAPRICORN-88 @beast89 @Hydration @IblinI


ofc i shat my pants when i first saw it lol


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Foinikas said:


> Have you guys seen THIS?




I saw it. Ukrainian or Russian tank taking out Ukrainian soldiers. That is how I understood that video. That was a massacre.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514521886813790210

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514401287948939268


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Ali_Baba said:


> Putin's defence minister Sergei Shoigu has had a 'massive heart attack not from natural causes' and TWENTY generals 'have been arrested' over bungled invasion​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin's defence minister Sergei Shoigu has had 'massive heart attack'
> 
> 
> Shoigu, Putin's right hand man and leader of the Russian army for a decade, was a mainstay in the early weeks of the war in Ukraine but recently disappeared from Kremlin briefings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk


  

IMO More likely a FAKE news in rhe making.
I seen too many of these esp. from the Russian hating English News Media.


----------



## LeGenD

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> The Pentagon must be reading this news with much distress.
> 
> IF it is true Ukraine's supersonic Neptune, a modified KH35 can hit and sink the Russian Navy Moskva cruiser, what will happened to their navy off the coast of China and in her backyard.
> 
> Although IMO the Moskva is a dated warships like many should to be decommissioned.
> 
> There have been far to many incidence of fire on Russian warships.
> 
> So what the Chinese Colonels were saying may be true.
> 
> All it takes is just 4 direct missiles hit and it is all over for any US Aircraft Carrier.
> 
> Mind you, China missiles are HYPERSONIC and more deadly as they can't be detected until it is too late.



Russians have anything like AEGIS Combat System?

Let us have a look at American kinetic options below.

*For Air Defense role:*

SM-3 missile variants can be used to intercept _*ballistic missiles* _in Midcourse phase:









U.S. Successfully Conducts SM-3 Block IIA Intercept Test Against an Intercontinental Balli


The U.S. Missile Defense Agency and U.S. Navy sailors aboard the USS John Finn intercepted and destroyed a threat-representative Intercontinental Ballistic Missile target during a flight test



www.defense.gov










SM-2 and SM-6 missile variants can be used to intercept _*ballistic missiles*_ as well as _*cruise missiles*_ in Terminal phase:






Sea Sparrow missile variants can be used to intercept _*cruise missiles*_ in Terminal phase:














Evolved Seasparrow Missile Block 2 Successfully Intercepts Aerial Target in First Live Fire Test - USNI News


The Evolved Seasparrow Missile Block 2 successfully intercepted an aerial target with its active guidance seeker-head, in the missile's first live fire test




news.usni.org





*NOTE:* United States Navy (USN) Arleigh Burke class Destroyers and Ticonderoga class Cruisers are armed with these munitions.



DF41 said:


> Correction, or just a mere difference in opinion.
> 
> A hit from Chinese AShCM will be sufficient for it to be over for any USA carrier.
> 
> But it is more likely Chinese be firing 100 such missiles at single USA carrier. As well as raining DF21s DF26s from high above.
> 
> No shit about bulkheads and spaces to contain the hellfire that will likely engulf the entire carrier.
> 
> 
> And not just the warhead, there will be 2–3 tons of missiles coming behind the warhead at Mach 3 tearing into the bulkheads and ordnance and aviation fuel and the poor men and women in the carrier. Those 2–3 tons of missile body will be tearing in the bulkheads faster and more deadly then APFSDS. Andf carrying its own unburned fuel to add to the fun.
> Even steel will burn when hit with hell fire and tons of steel and debris coming in at Mach 3. The aviation fuel, and paint on walls, the bombs and ordnance will all cook off and add to the huge huge fire inside the carrier. Regardless if carrier under Condition Zebra or Donkey or Jackass.
> The brave sailors in those carriers will not care or worry and be happy that their carrier not sinking. And only burning and burning from one end to the other end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese have about 3,000 of these kind of AShCMs.
> 
> In the form of Mach 3–4 YJ-12s carrying 400–500 semi shaped charge warheads, fired outside the AEGIS cover. The YJ-12 can also do evasive maneuvers to avoid anti-missile threats.
> 
> YJ-12 - Wikipedia
> 
> There is also the YJ-18 with reach exceeding Aegis cover. YJ-18 will start off at sub Mach 1. Until about 20 km from target , it will sprint at Mach 3–4 to deliver good news to the carrier .
> 
> China's YJ-18 Supersonic Anti-Ship Cruise Missile: America's Nightmare?
> 
> This Chinese description relates that the missile’s great strength is its “亚超结合的独特动力” [subsonic and supersonic combined unique propulsion]. Another term applied to this design is “双速制反舰导弹” [dual speed control ASCM]. As explained in the article, it is projected that YJ-18 would have an initial subsonic phase estimated at .8 Mach similar to the Klub of about 180km, but 20km from the target would unleash the supersonic sprint vehicle at speed of Mach 2.5 to 3. The “dual speed” function allows the system to realize certain advantages of subsonic cruise missiles, such as their “relatively long range, light weight and universality …” but also takes the chief advantage of supersonic ASCMs as well, namely the ability to “大幅压缩敌方的反应时间” [radically compress the enemy’s reaction time].
> 
> The Chinese article relates another advantage of the “dual speed” approach. Just as the missile comes into contact with the ship’s defenses, it “sheds the medium stage …,” thus simultaneously and dramatically altering both its speed and also its radar reflection, “which would impact the fire control calculation.” The likelihood that YJ-18 improves upon the Klub missile’s “digitization, automation, as well as providing more intelligent flight control and navigation technology” is attributed in the Chinese article to a recent Jane’s report.



See above.

There is much leap in logic in your post.

*1.* There is NO need for American Aircraft Carrier(s) to operate very close to Chinese coasts in the Pacific to begin with.

Even the nearest would be operating at a distance of hundreds of KMs from Chinese coasts in open ocean.

*2.* American Aircraft Carrier(s) are very likely to have incredible "situational awareness."

A combination of aircraft, UAVs and satellites are used for surveillance to create a battlefield picture for the entire American Carrier Battle Group to detect and track a wide range of threats in real-time. The system in use is called Cooperative Engagement Capability (CEC).






Escorts such Arleigh Burke class destroyers and Ticonderoga class cruisers - each is armed with an assortment of kinetic interceptors to engage hostile aircraft, UAVs and missiles (see above), and also armed with long-range cruise missiles to engage facilitating radar systems and missile launchers from a distance of over 1000 KM and soften coastal defenses of the hostile country by extension.

*3.* In light of the above, there is no guarantee that Chinese forces would be able to subject an American Aircraft Carrier to a volley of 100 missiles in short order.

- American Aircraft Carrier(s) can hit 30+ knots in open ocean.

- Escorts will be used to subject incoming Chinese ASBM and cruise missiles to intercepting, jamming and spoofing activities.









How to Kill China's 'Carrier-Killer' Missile: Jam, Spoof and Shoot


China has developed a missile that would turn an aircraft carrier into a two-billion-dollar hulk of twisted metal, flame, and dead sailors. Publicly, the U.S. Navy downplays its importance. Privately, the sailors are working out several different options to kill it before it kills them.




gizmodo.com





What if they manage to jam Beidou navigation system? ASBM such as DF-21D and DF-26 depend upon cues from Beidou navigation system to engage a moving ship.









U.S. Admiral: China Can ‘Keep Pouring Money’ Into Anti-Ship Ballistic Missiles - USNI News


China can continue spending money on anti-ship ballistic missiles, but it might not be the capability needed to win if a conflict broke out between the U.S. and China, the admiral overseeing Navy intelligence said Wednesday. Vice Adm. Jeffrey Trussler, the deputy chief of naval operations for...




news.usni.org





- Chinese forces will be engaged in the process.

*For Anti-ship role:*

Harpoon missile variants
Range = 250+ KM





__





SLAM-ER Missile


SLAM-ER roots go back to the original Harpoon anti-ship missile placed in the fleet in the late 1970s. Because of emerging operational requirements, the Standoff Land Attack Missile (SLAM) was



www.navy.mil










*NOTE:* Launched through aircraft and ships.

SM-6 missile variants
Range = 370 KM









Anti-Aircraft Missile Sinks Ship: Navy SM-6 - Breaking Defense


The supersonic SM-6 Standard Missile, designed to shoot down incoming aircraft and cruise missiles, has sunk a target ship in a test. The decommissioned frigate Reuben James went down off Hawaii in the January event, just disclosed today. The test was part of the Navy’s effort to rebuild its...




breakingdefense.com













Navy SM-6 Missile Successfully Hit A Target Barge During Big Manned-Unmanned Teaming Test


The live-fire missile shoot was part of a larger drone-focused experiment that also included swarming technology and various unmanned platforms.




www.thedrive.com





*NOTE:* Launched through ships.

LRASM
Range = 560 KM








https://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed-martin/mfc/pc/long-range-anti-ship-missile/mfc-lrasm-pc-01.pdf



*NOTE:* Launched through aircraft.

Tomahawk Block Va 
(undergoing trials)
Range = 1600+ KM









USS Chafee Conducts First Operational Test of Tomahawk Block V - Naval News


U.S. Navy Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Chafee (DDG 90) made history being the first to launch and operationally test a Block V Tomahawk cruise missile.




www.navalnews.com





*NOTE:* Launched through ships.

Expect heavy losses in a battle.

- - -

It is surprising to note that some Chinese members think of USN as a joke. Maybe study naval warfare for a change?

It is possible for a large Chinese force composition to defeat an American Carrier Battle Group in a battle in open ocean in theory but not without suffering heavy losses in the exchange. The particular Chinese force composition will be toast as well.

Problem is that there are multiple American Carrier Battle Groups to account for, and I have yet to expand on capabilities of American allies in the Pacific.

Be realistic, comrade.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514591669148073986


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## DF41

Colonel Douglas Macgregor DEBUNKS Ukraine - Russia War Lies​


----------



## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514513462243831811


They used that card to offen recently to all nordic countries even before they tryed to join and nobody cares at this point they already put nukes in kaliningrad oblast









Russia deploys nuclear-capable missile system in Kaliningrad: reports | DW | 07.02.2018


The Kremlin has stressed its sovereign right to deploy missiles on Russian territory after reports that the country deployed the Iskander nuclear-capable missile system in Kaliningrad on the Baltic Sea.




www.dw.com





and thats from 6 february 2018

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## Viet

I watching the vid footage. The explosion on the cruiser Moskwa is huge. Must be a chain ammo and missile explosions. The ship is finished.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> I watching the vid footage. The explosion on the cruiser Moskwa is huge. Must be a chain ammo and missile explosions. The ship is finished.



Wow - The Russians must be hiding alot of casualties from the missile attack on that ship if that picture is true !!!!


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

LeGenD said:


> Russians have anything like AEGIS Combat System?
> 
> Let us have a look at American kinetic options below.
> 
> *For Air Defense role:*
> 
> SM-3 missile variants can be used to intercept _*ballistic missiles* _in Midcourse phase:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. Successfully Conducts SM-3 Block IIA Intercept Test Against an Intercontinental Balli
> 
> 
> The U.S. Missile Defense Agency and U.S. Navy sailors aboard the USS John Finn intercepted and destroyed a threat-representative Intercontinental Ballistic Missile target during a flight test
> 
> 
> 
> www.defense.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SM-2 and SM-6 missile variants can be used to intercept _*ballistic missiles*_ as well as _*cruise missiles*_ in Terminal phase:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sea Sparrow missile variants can be used to intercept _*cruise missiles*_ in Terminal phase:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Evolved Seasparrow Missile Block 2 Successfully Intercepts Aerial Target in First Live Fire Test - USNI News
> 
> 
> The Evolved Seasparrow Missile Block 2 successfully intercepted an aerial target with its active guidance seeker-head, in the missile's first live fire test
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.usni.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *NOTE:* United States Navy (USN) Arleigh Burke class Destroyers and Ticonderoga class Cruisers are armed with these munitions.
> 
> *For Anti-ship role:*
> 
> Harpoon missile variants
> Range = 250+ KM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SLAM-ER Missile
> 
> 
> SLAM-ER roots go back to the original Harpoon anti-ship missile placed in the fleet in the late 1970s. Because of emerging operational requirements, the Standoff Land Attack Missile (SLAM) was
> 
> 
> 
> www.navy.mil
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *NOTE:* Launched through aircraft and ships.
> 
> SM-6 missile variants
> Range = 370 KM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Aircraft Missile Sinks Ship: Navy SM-6 - Breaking Defense
> 
> 
> The supersonic SM-6 Standard Missile, designed to shoot down incoming aircraft and cruise missiles, has sunk a target ship in a test. The decommissioned frigate Reuben James went down off Hawaii in the January event, just disclosed today. The test was part of the Navy’s effort to rebuild its...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> breakingdefense.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Navy SM-6 Missile Successfully Hit A Target Barge During Big Manned-Unmanned Teaming Test
> 
> 
> The live-fire missile shoot was part of a larger drone-focused experiment that also included swarming technology and various unmanned platforms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *NOTE:* Launched through ships.
> 
> LRASM
> Range = 560 KM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed-martin/mfc/pc/long-range-anti-ship-missile/mfc-lrasm-pc-01.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> *NOTE:* Launched through aircraft.
> 
> Tomahawk Block Va
> (undergoing trials)
> Range = 1600+ KM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USS Chafee Conducts First Operational Test of Tomahawk Block V - Naval News
> 
> 
> U.S. Navy Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Chafee (DDG 90) made history being the first to launch and operationally test a Block V Tomahawk cruise missile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.navalnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *NOTE:* Launched through ships.
> 
> 
> 
> See above.
> 
> There is much leap in logic in your post.
> 
> *1.* There is NO need for American Aircraft Carrier(s) to operate very close to Chinese coasts in the Pacific to begin with.
> 
> Even the nearest would be operating at a distance of hundreds of KMs from Chinese coasts in open ocean.
> 
> *2.* American Aircraft Carrier(s) are very likely to have incredible "situational awareness."
> 
> A combination of aircraft, UAVs and satellites are used for surveillance to create a battlefield picture for the entire American Carrier Battle Group to detect and track a wide range of threats in real-time. The system in use is called Cooperative Engagement Capability (CEC).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Escorts such Arleigh Burke class destroyers and Ticonderoga class cruisers - each is armed with an assortment of kinetic interceptors to engage hostile aircraft, UAVs and missiles (see above), and also armed with long-range cruise missiles to engage facilitating radar systems and missile launchers from a distance of over 1000 KM and soften coastal defenses of the hostile country by extension.
> 
> *3.* In light of the above, there is no guarantee that Chinese forces would be able to subject an American Aircraft Carrier to a volley of 100 missiles in short order.
> 
> - American Aircraft Carrier(s) can hit 30+ knots in open ocean.
> 
> - Escorts will be used to subject incoming Chinese ASBM and cruise missiles to intercepting, jamming and spoofing activities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How to Kill China's 'Carrier-Killer' Missile: Jam, Spoof and Shoot
> 
> 
> China has developed a missile that would turn an aircraft carrier into a two-billion-dollar hulk of twisted metal, flame, and dead sailors. Publicly, the U.S. Navy downplays its importance. Privately, the sailors are working out several different options to kill it before it kills them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gizmodo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What if they manage to jam Beidou navigation system? ASBM such as DF-21D and DF-26 depend upon cues from Beidou navigation system to engage a moving ship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. Admiral: China Can ‘Keep Pouring Money’ Into Anti-Ship Ballistic Missiles - USNI News
> 
> 
> China can continue spending money on anti-ship ballistic missiles, but it might not be the capability needed to win if a conflict broke out between the U.S. and China, the admiral overseeing Navy intelligence said Wednesday. Vice Adm. Jeffrey Trussler, the deputy chief of naval operations for...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.usni.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Chinese forces will be engaged in the process.
> 
> Expect heavy losses in a battle.
> 
> - - -
> 
> It is surprising to note that some Chinese members think of USN as a joke. Maybe study naval warfare for a change?
> 
> It is possible for a large Chinese force composition to defeat an American Carrier Battle Group in a battle in open ocean in theory but not without suffering heavy losses in the exchange. The particular Chinese force composition will be toast as well.
> 
> Problem is that there are multiple American Carrier Battle Groups to account for, and I have yet to expand on capabilities of American allies in the Pacific.
> 
> Be realistic, comrade.


Then why is the US not fighting the Russian directly instead of using a proxy.

Afraid of what?

She was not afraid to confront Soviet Union in 1962. What is holding her back?

We have seen most of these US missile system in use in Syria, Yemen, etc and the overall results are simply not convincing with most of them failing to hit their intended targets.

I have yet to seen a USN warship successfully defending itself against any supersonic missiles leave alone a hypersonic missile. It is all talk.

*To paraphrase the Chinese General reply in response to the US: 

Then let us meet in the sky, the ocean and test them out. *

So these all looks good on paper that is if you are selling them. Do they really work?

Iran had successfully hijacked US drone intact? 

The F-35 was on a concurrency program when they were sold and delivered to customers.

Now the operators are paying thru their nose for fighter plane who gun can't even shot straight, with more than 900 softwares bugs unresolved and others pressing hardware issues. Now new issue with engine as well.

33 USAF F-22 have just retired by USAF.

Thw Arleigh Burke warship hulls are semi aluminium and steel plates.

Zamwalt is finished. Does not work. Unreliably issue with the IEPS propulsion and railgun R&D cancelled.

USS Gerald Ford AC has yet to be assigned for any duty despite it being commissioned.

The Freedom class Littoral warships promoted as the deadiest futuristic US warships are now decommissioned and assigned to National Coastguard after its flaws were discovered after being trailed and paced by PLAN Type 054A frigates in escort in SCS.

Jamming China Beidou navigation System???

That is a very tall order, only a geriatric who lost his way inside the White House who incidentally is the leader of the US will even think of.

Didn't he proudly claimed Russia economy has collapsed in Poland lately?

Get real, it is well known China is way ahead of the US in many technologies and Quantum Radar and Telecommunication System among those. 
China is now in 6G and has successful tested and build its TBCC engine in its hypersonic space plane flying below the stratosphere and not detected as admitted the Pentagon or by the US earlier warning radar.
How embarrassing?

What is frustrating for the US is CETC the manufacturer of China Military Chips don't need US technology to produce their own proprietary chips in Chinese weaponries. So they throw everything at China and it is only hurting themselves.

It is much easier to jam or destroy all US GPS satellites over the sky in China and Far East.

The US is locked in an Economic War of Attrition which she can win and good news is China don't have to fire a bullet.

All she has to watch out for is FOUL PLAY.

Taiwan will be reunified whether the Us likes it or not.

The Taiwan card will be removed by China as well just like the Ukraine card.


----------



## bobo6661

Ali_Baba said:


> Wow - The Russians must be hiding alot of casualties from the missile attack on that ship if that picture is true !!!!


Yee if this from that explosion doubt there where many saved


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514591669148073986


----------



## Ali_Baba

*Ukraine DID take out Putin's sitting duck naval flagship...... amid claims of 'hundreds' of casualties onboard*









Ukraine war: Kyiv claims successful hit on Russian warship


Ukraine has officially claimed to have struck the Moskva, Russia's Black Sea flagship, with Neptune anti-ship missiles - causing significant damage with the vessel starting to sink.




www.dailymail.co.uk





Wow - hundreds are said to be dead on that ship !!!!

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## CAPRICORN-88

Ali_Baba said:


> Wow - The Russians must be hiding alot of casualties from the missile attack on that ship if that picture is true !!!!


The crew has already been evacuated. 

This 40 year old ship has been towed back to Russian shipyard. It should have been scrapped long ago. 

Stop speculating..

We may never find out the truth.


----------



## Ali_Baba

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> The crew has already been evacuated.
> 
> This 40 year old ship has been towed back to Russian shipyard. It should have been scrapped long ago.
> 
> Stop speculating..
> 
> We may never find out the truth.



Evacuated after the attack..... those who were killed - were killed....


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Ali_Baba said:


> *Ukraine DID take out Putin's sitting duck naval flagship...... amid claims of 'hundreds' of casualties onboard*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine war: Kyiv claims successful hit on Russian warship
> 
> 
> Ukraine has officially claimed to have struck the Moskva, Russia's Black Sea flagship, with Neptune anti-ship missiles - causing significant damage with the vessel starting to sink.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow - hundreds are said to be dead on that ship !!!!



How did this British Daily Mail Knows? 

Can they verify it?


----------



## mmr

Ali_Baba said:


> *Ukraine DID take out Putin's sitting duck naval flagship...... amid claims of 'hundreds' of casualties onboard*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine war: Kyiv claims successful hit on Russian warship
> 
> 
> Ukraine has officially claimed to have struck the Moskva, Russia's Black Sea flagship, with Neptune anti-ship missiles - causing significant damage with the vessel starting to sink.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow - hundreds are said to be dead on that ship !!!!


This is the flagship russian navy asset.

This will cripple Russian navy in black sea

But what comes next is even worse. with unlimited us and uk weapons flooding Ukraine.... is bad news for russian navy

Ukraine Is Getting A Massive Shipment Of UK Weapons To Fight Russia​








Ukraine Is Getting a Massive Shipment of UK Weapons to Fight Russia


In the latest shipment of military aid to Ukraine, the U.K. is sending high-tech anti-aircraft missiles and suicide drones.




www.19fortyfive.com







https://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/why-russias-navy-ukraine-war-doomed-or-irrelevant



*Why  Russia’s Navy in Ukraine War is Doomed (or Irrelevant)*

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## Invicta

Ali_Baba said:


> Evacuated after the attack..... those who were killed - were killed....


More like evaporated... doubt you will find much leftover of a human body after that kind of explosion, specially at sea.

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## CAPRICORN-88

bobo6661 said:


> Yee if this from that explosion doubt there where many saved



That will depends on whether this happened after or before the evacuation of the crews.

No way of verifying it with just a photo.


----------



## nang2

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514370168276889603
> Looks like towns and cities are gonna get flattened.


Likely a response for the attack on Moskva and civilian targets inside Russia.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

Invicta said:


> More like evaporated... doubt you will find much leftover of a human body after that kind of explosion, specially at sea.




Thats an old video. 

The Pentagon confirmed there was a major explosion, and it’s being towed to Sevastopol.

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## bobo6661

F-22Raptor said:


> The Pentagon confirmed there was a major explosion, and it’s being towed to Sevastopol.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514575706881241093

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/u36st5

war should look like this

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CAPRICORN-88



Reactions: Love Love:
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## Ali_Baba

Ukraine’s unofficial motto, ‘Russian warship, go f--- yourself’, finally comes to pass


Flagship Moskva missile cruiser, notorious for attacking Snake Island, was seriously damaged in a suspected missile hit




www.telegraph.co.uk





Good coverage of how Ukraine executed the attack itself.

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## mmr




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## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## Invicta

F-22Raptor said:


> Thats an old video.
> 
> The Pentagon confirmed there was a major explosion, and it’s being towed to Sevastopol.


Do you know how many perished then?


----------



## mmr




----------



## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> Wow - The Russians must be hiding alot of casualties from the missile attack on that ship if that picture is true !!!!


This ship is scrap. Neptune antiship missiles are a variant of Russian Kh35 antiship missiles.
Vietnam surface warships carry Kh35s.
A missile can sink a 5,000 ton destroyer.
2 or 3 Neptunes can scrap a cruiser.


----------



## Viet

How will Russia attack in east Ukraine?​By David Brown
BBC News

Published4 days ago
Share
Related Topics

Russia-Ukraine war





*The conflict in Ukraine has shifted to the east of the country where Ukrainian forces are battle-hardened and well-prepared.*
Analysts believe Ukraine's best units are in the east, and that they are dug into trench systems and other fortified positions.
So far, Ukrainian troops have strongly resisted the Russian advance, but they could be heavily outnumbered by Russian forces who are inching forwards in some areas.
Where will the key battles be fought?​Russian officials have said that the focus of its forces is now the "complete liberation" of the Donbas, broadly referring to Ukraine's eastern regions of Luhansk and Donetsk.
The terrain in the east will pose big challenges for the Russians as they attack.

With less wooded land than the north of the country, analysts say open areas may favour the Ukrainian defenders.





The battle for Slovyansk is likely to be the next pivotal battle of the war, according to the Institute for the Study of War (ISW).
If Russian troops advancing from Izyum are able to take the town, they could then choose to advance east towards Severodonetsk to encircle a relatively small group of Ukrainian forces, or head further south to encircle a larger Ukrainian contingent.


If Mariupol falls to the Russians, more troops may also be available to push north into the area west of Donetsk.
How are the Ukrainians preparing?​Brigadier Ben Barry (retired), of the International Institute for Strategic Studies, says Ukrainian forces have had years to prepare their defences and that Russian troops may struggle to force them out.
"It's not just World War One-style trenches on the Ukrainian side, they will have also fortified key towns and villages they want to defend," he says.
Ukrainian armoured vehicles and other equipment are positioned in revetments, or earth banks, for protection, he says.




IMAGE SOURCE, GETTY IMAGES
Image caption,
Ukrainian soldier shoots at a drone from a trench near Kharkiv
Many Ukrainian troops in the east are highly experienced - they have been holding back Russian separatists since the conflict of 2014.
Their numbers may also be boosted, should Ukraine's military chiefs re-deploy units no longer needed to defend Kyiv after Russia's withdrawal from the north.
How will Russia attack?​Brigadier Barry says Russia is likely to make heavy use of artillery, to break down strong Ukrainian defences from the air before pushing forward on the ground.
Artillery is heavy weaponry designed to fire munitions much further than small arms,
Attacking Ukrainian troops head on with infantry, without a heavy artillery bombardment first, risks huge Russian casualties and greatly increases the risk of defeat.
Russia has a range of weaponry to draw on. In particular, self-propelled artillery, in which Russia dominates, will be "a very significant factor", says Brigadier Barry.






Self-propelled artillery has the appearance of a tank, but fires munitions upwards to then fall on to a target, rather than shooting directly at it.
It is more heavily protected than a towed gun, and can advance quickly when enemy defences break down.
Those opportunities to move forward may be rare, however, as front lines become semi-fixed in many areas.
"It could take on quite a bloody and attritional feel," says Brigadier Barry.
To pound Ukrainian positions from a greater distance, Russia has grad multiple rocket launcher systems and is likely to use them heavily.






Grads have 40 rockets which can be fired in as little as 20 seconds, and have already inflicted a catastrophic toll on civilian populations in some areas, reducing residential districts of Kharkiv, Mariupol and other cities to rubble.
Reports suggest thermobaric weapons have also been used by Russian forces in parts of Ukraine, including Mariupol in Donetsk and Izyum in Kharkiv.






They are much more devastating than conventional explosives of similar size, scattering a fuel mixture as a cloud, which then detonates, producing a huge fireball and massive blast wave.
Samuel Cranny-Evans, of the Royal United Services Institute, says they are "primarily designed for urban warfare" because the cloud of fuel mixture which is scattered after the initial impact can penetrate gaps in buildings before detonating.
If Russian artillery is successful in destroying key Ukrainian defences, Russia is likely to use infantry with small arms and a range of wheeled and tracked vehicles, together with tanks with heavy fire power, to lead advances across terrain swept by Ukrainian fire.
Air power in support could include fighter bombers and attack helicopters.
Ukraine's foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, says the fighting "will remind you of the Second World War".

War in Ukraine: More coverage​
LIVE: Latest updates from Ukraine
CHERNOBYL: Inside the nuclear plant after Russians left
ATROCITIES: Ukraine, the UN and history's greatest broken promise
SPIES: Behind their attempts to stop the war
READ MORE: Full coverage of the crisis





What could hold Russia back?​Analysts say it is unclear whether Russian forces have addressed the serious logistical problems they encountered in the first weeks of this campaign.
Troops struggled with insufficient fuel, food, water and basic equipment, such as radios and cold weather clothing.
"The key will also be training, motivation and leadership. The Russians did not perform well around Kyiv and we just don't know whether they have learned the lessons," says Brigadier Barry.
Reports also suggest that Russia has lost more than three times as much military hardware as Ukraine in the war so far.
How this might affect the war in the east is unclear, but replacing lost equipment could present serious challenges.



IMAGE SOURCE, GETTY IMAGES
Image caption,
A Russian tank destroyed near Kharkiv
Oryx, an open source military analysis website, tracks military equipment losses and only includes destroyed vehicles and equipment of which photographic or video evidence is available.
It estimates that Russia has lost more than 400 tanks, 20 aircraft and 32 helicopters, as well as hundreds of armoured vehicles and other equipment.
Smaller Ukrainian losses may reflect the size of Ukraine's armed forces, but may also signal tactical success.






Ukraine has captured significant amounts of Russian equipment, but it is unclear how useful it will be.
Michael Kofman, of the US-based Center for Naval Analyses (CNA), says: "It's going to be a while before this kit is serviceable, manned, and deployed where it makes a tangible difference. A few captured tanks or IFVs [Infantry Fighting Vehicles] do not an armoured brigade make."
In the long run, Russia may also have a crucial advantage, particularly if Western supplies to Ukraine continue to be restricted to defensive equipment.
Mr Cranny-Evans says: "For every Ukrainian grad rocket launcher or howitzer destroyed, in most cases, there are no replacements, they're gone. But Russia still has manufacturing capability - so for Russian troops, these things are not irreplaceable. So, as the war goes on, time begins to shift in Russia's favour."


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514620938524016643

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## Wood

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514620938524016643


With every passing day, Lukashenko may be thinking to switch sides and ally with Ukraine


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Ali_Baba said:


> Evacuated after the attack..... those who were killed - were killed....


Was the so-called attack confirmed and by who? The Ukrainian? They don't even have an operational radar working for these 290 miles range missile. 

The Russian source said they were evacuated when the fire got started. Explosions were due fo ammunition and bombs. 

Sounds logical and that will be until Ukrainian proved it.


----------



## bobo6661

Wood said:


> With every passing day, Lukashenko may be thinking to switch sides and ally with Ukraine


to be honest was shure he will join the assault on kiev  but guess when he saw the losses putin getting

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Ali_Baba

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Was the so-called attack confirmed and by who? The Ukrainian? They don't even have an operational radar working for these 290 miles range missile.
> 
> The Russian source said they were evacuated when the fire got started. Explosions were due fo ammunition and bombs.
> 
> Sounds logical and that will be until Ukrainian proved it.



The Ukrainians sources and the entire internet is saying that the ship was hit by two anti-ship missiles. Primary explosions were from the missiles and secondary explosions from the ammunition and bombs. Remaining crew evacuated only after the explosions.

Sounds logical and that will be until Russia proves it's version of an "ammunition mishap".


----------



## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514623484596523008


----------



## bobo6661

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/u3de22


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514625359014150147

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514625524722712587


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514623484596523008


4 weeks is a LOT of time in his war. I wonder if Russia will be able to keep with its war effort after 4 weeks. Whatever Putin has in mind has to be completed before that time or else Russia will not be sustain the invasion. Ukraine on the other hand does not have a choice in the matter


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514626039426781186


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Ali_Baba said:


> The Ukrainians sources and the entire internet is saying that the ship was hit by two anti-ship missiles. Primary explosions were from the missiles and secondary explosions from the ammunition and bombs. Remaining crew evacuated only after the explosions.
> 
> Sounds logical and that will be until Russia proves it's version of an "ammunition mishap".



Then it is all unverified. 

Russia version will be more credulius since the evidence is with them. The warship itself.

Daily Mail is from just from one single photo and that is flimsy.

A single photo of a man next to the car that was destroyed and he is condemned as an arsonist. 

So why are you insisting that your version is right. 

You have to prove it to us using more scientific argument then instead by spreading someone else version with a photo which to many of us already knew but the rest are just US or UK Propaganda.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514627997193617410


----------



## DF41

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Then why is the US not fighting the Russian directly instead of using a proxy.
> 
> Afraid of what?
> 
> She was not afraid to confront Soviet Union in 1962. What is holding her back?
> 
> We have seen most of these US missile system in use in Syria, Yemen, etc and the overall results are simply not convincing with most of them failing to hit their intended targets.
> 
> I have yet to seen a USN warship successfully defending itself against any supersonic missiles leave alone a hypersonic missile. It is all talk.
> 
> *To paraphrase the Chinese General reply in response to the US:
> 
> Then let us meet in the sky, the ocean and test them out. *
> 
> So these all looks good on paper that is if you are selling them. Do they really work?
> 
> Iran had successfully hijacked US drone intact?
> 
> The F-35 was on a concurrency program when they were sold and delivered to customers.
> 
> Now the operators are paying thru their nose for fighter plane who gun can't even shot straight, with more than 900 softwares bugs unresolved and others pressing hardware issues. Now new issue with engine as well.
> 
> 33 USAF F-22 have just retired by USAF.
> 
> Thw Arleigh Burke warship hulls are semi aluminium and steel plates.
> 
> Zamwalt is finished. Does not work. Unreliably issue with the IEPS propulsion and railgun R&D cancelled.
> 
> USS Gerald Ford AC has yet to be assigned for any duty despite it being commissioned.
> 
> The Freedom class Littoral warships promoted as the deadiest futuristic US warships are now decommissioned and assigned to National Coastguard after its flaws were discovered after being trailed and paced by PLAN Type 054A frigates in escort in SCS.
> 
> Jamming China Beidou navigation System???
> 
> That is a very tall order, only a geriatric who lost his way inside the White House who incidentally is the leader of the US will even think of.
> 
> Didn't he proudly claimed Russia economy has collapsed in Poland lately?
> 
> Get real, it is well known China is way ahead of the US in many technologies and Quantum Radar and Telecommunication System among those.
> China is now in 6G and has successful tested and build its TBCC engine in its hypersonic space plane flying below the stratosphere and not detected as admitted the Pentagon or by the US earlier warning radar.
> How embarrassing?
> 
> What is frustrating for the US is CETC the manufacturer of China Military Chips don't need US technology to produce their own proprietary chips in Chinese weaponries. So they throw everything at China and it is only hurting themselves.
> 
> It is much easier to jam or destroy all US GPS satellites over the sky in China and Far East.
> 
> The US is locked in an Economic War of Attrition which she can win and good news is China don't have to fire a bullet.
> 
> All she has to watch out for is FOUL PLAY.
> 
> Taiwan will be reunified whether the Us likes it or not.
> 
> The Taiwan card will be removed by China as well just like the Ukraine card.


USA vaunted defense cannot even defend Saudi Arabia against a handful of slow poke sub mach drones and missiles



How then your touted defense systems all failed in Saudi Arabia?



And that against only puny sub sonic slow poke drones and missiles



Murica touted ability with their super duper missiles of Thaad and Patriot and Aegis to defend KSA that Murica so clearly and explicitly demonstrated to te entire world


 







_






























https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...es-destroy-houthi-drones-state-tv-2022-03-25/_



So you think you be doing much much better against supersonics and hypersonics missiles by the hundreds and thousands?


Tell us again of the *LAYERED DEFENSE SYSTEM *that Saudi Arabia bought from USA

On March 25 or about 3 weeks ago.













Saudi Aramco storage facility targeted by Houthi attack, causing fire - Our Today


RIYADH (Reuters) Yemen's Houthis said they launched attacks on Saudi energy facilities on Friday (March 25) and the Saudi-led coalition said oil giant Aramco's petroleum products distribution station in Jeddah was hit, causing a fire in two storage tanks but no casualties. A huge plume of black...




our.today





No wonder Saudi Arabia lost all respect for USA and not only refused to accept call from Sleepy Joe.

But created a parody of Sleepy Joe and his Kamala as a sign of the esteem Saudi got for USA now and the failure of USA defensive systems that cannot even stop slow poke attacks from slow poke drones and slow poke missiles.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514379537903235074

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514379357615177731


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514624362644652037To be honest if Belarusian wanted to top lukashenko its the best time  guess thats one point why he still didnt join

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## nang2

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514624362644652037To be honest if Belarusian wanted to top lukashenko its the best time


You and F22 Raptor should really coordinate.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514408997054468100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514585958242562051
There are 3 possibilities:
1- The cruiser was hit by two missiles and its ammunition depot exploded
2- There is treachery and internal work that led to the destruction of the warehouse on the cruiser
3- Unexplained fire caused an explosion

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## mmr

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514408997054468100
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514585958242562051
> There are 3 possibilities:
> 1- The cruiser was hit by two missiles and its ammunition depot exploded
> 2- There is treachery and internal work that led to the destruction of the warehouse on the cruiser
> 3- Unexplained fire caused an explosion


This ship was protecting other ship from air attacks. (S 300 on this navy asset) 

This is a significant loss for Russian navy...that will lead to disaster in coming days for other exposed russian navy assets


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514525064489848832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514525069090988032


----------



## oberschlesier

The SC said:


> There are 3 possibilities:
> 1- The cruiser was hit by two missiles and its ammunition depot exploded
> 2- There is treachery and internal work that led to the destruction of the warehouse on the cruiser
> 3- Unexplained fire caused an explosion



Option number 3 is not Unexplained, it`s "typical Russian mess". Something just blowed up due to poor maintenance or stupidity. It`s not uncommon, e.g. Chernobyl, Kursk, lately the fire on the aircraft carrier.


----------



## bobo6661

oberschlesier said:


> Option number 3 is not Unexplained, it`s "typical Russian mess". Something just blowed up due to poor maintenance or stupidity. It`s not uncommon, e.g. Chernobyl, Kursk, lately the fire on the aircraft carrier.


The crew could be tired to after nearly 50 days


----------



## Ali_Baba

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Then it is all unverified.
> 
> Russia version will be more credulius since the evidence is with them. The warship itself.
> 
> Daily Mail is from just from one single photo and that is flimsy.
> 
> A single photo of a man next to the car that was destroyed and he is condemned as an arsonist.
> 
> So why are you insisting that your version is right.
> 
> You have to prove it to us using more scientific argument then instead by spreading someone else version with a photo which to many of us already knew but the rest are just US or UK Propaganda.



Given how Russia has lied every single day about everything - the Russian account means little right now.

You are welcome to believe the Russian "version" of events, and I will believe the West's. 

Given that the "west" has been more right than wrong on this war - I feel comfortable i have the right sequence of events of what has happened.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514408997054468100
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514585958242562051
> There are 3 possibilities:
> 1- The cruiser was hit by two missiles and its ammunition depot exploded
> 2- There is treachery and internal work that led to the destruction of the warehouse on the cruiser
> 3- Unexplained fire caused an explosion



Wow if you go frame by frame at about 1.5secs - you can see the missile strike the ship !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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## F-22Raptor

Ali_Baba said:


> Given how Russia has lied every single day about everything - the Russian account means little right now.
> 
> You are welcome to believe the Russian "version" of events, and I will believe the West's.
> 
> Given that the "west" has been more right than wrong on this war - I feel comfortable i have the right sequence of events of what has happened.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow if you go frame by frame at about 1.5secs - you can see the missile strike the ship !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




That’s an old video

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## bobo6661

Ali_Baba said:


> Wow if you go frame by frame at about 1.5secs - you can see the missile strike the ship !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Thats 100% not moscow it was night and it supposed to be bad weather

Not 100% with ukraine but a lose move by Le Pen security ? The last second when all reporters rush after the girl 









Protester thrown to floor and dragged away by Marine Le Pen security


The Green councillor was tackled to the floor after interrupting the event in Paris with the photo of the National Rally leader meeting the Russian strongman in Moscow in 2017.




www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## nang2

Ali_Baba said:


> Given how Russia has lied every single day about everything - the Russian account means little right now.
> 
> You are welcome to believe the Russian "version" of events, and I will believe the West's.
> 
> Given that the "west" has been more right than wrong on this war - I feel comfortable i have the right sequence of events of what has happened.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow if you go frame by frame at about 1.5secs - you can see the missile strike the ship !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Actually I feel the reverse. The West seems to have employed the strategy of shoot-first-no-question-later. First, the snake island fiasco. Lately the Russian missile with cluster bombs on civilians. The moment their claims were rebuked, they just moved on to new claims. Even Pentagon follows the same practice, claiming Russians are going to use chemical weapons without a shred of proof. They openly admitted of having no proof but claimed that they wanted to use lies to prevent Russians from actually using chemical weapons. Quite lame. Pentagon seems to have realized the problem of doing this and has been more honest lately.

On the contrary, Russia has been more reserved. It is more accurate to assess the ground progress based on the news coming from Russia.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514556201710804994

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514591669148073986







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514630805242449923


----------



## The SC

Previously, Ukraine had apparently attacked a fuel tank in Russia with Mi-24 helicopters






Putin needs a real excuse to crush Ukraine..


----------



## letsrock

So the ship really did not sink and us is not confirming a missile hit. So just another round of lies by ukraine.


----------



## jamal18

letsrock said:


> So the ship really did not sink and us is not confirming a missile hit. So just another round of lies by ukraine.


I would believe a Ukrainian strike, but the strange thing is that US has stayed quiet about this. If true they would have broadcasted it to the world.

It's still open verdict from me at present.


----------



## letsrock

thetutle said:


> NATO's red line should be Russia current borders. not an inch of occupied territory should be accepted as Russian. South Ossetia, Crimea, etc etc. squeeze russia for 300 years if necessary until it withdraws



NATO would be very happy to have such a red line goal as long as the fighting is done by ukrainian and other eastern europeans. And btw all the weapons supplied by us are based on deferred payments - not free stuff. It may take ukraine 300 years to pay for it and uncle sam will come to collect his bills.


----------



## F-22Raptor

letsrock said:


> So the ship really did not sink and us is not confirming a missile hit. So just another round of lies by ukraine.




The US has hinted at it being a strike on the Moskva.


----------



## bobo6661

letsrock said:


> So the ship really did not sink and us is not confirming a missile hit. So just another round of lies by ukraine.


They would not be pulling its fleet away from coast if it was only a Human error

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## Ich

Old news









Russian State Duma Deputy Confirms: NATO Instructors Trapped in Mariupol Factory


“I would give them advice: don’t get on helicopters. Better hang out the [white] flag, come to us.” State Duma deputy Adam Delimkhanov in an interview with RT correspondent Vlad Andritsa about NATO instructors stuck in Mariupol at Azovstal: “They co…




www.bitchute.com


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514563503960567812

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514626749421826057

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514662296949501952

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## jamal18

For anybody interested, the current situation in Mariupol. Seems like the city is totally destroyed. Although the Azovs are bottled up in the steel mill, small elements are still roaming the city. About 30 minutes.


----------



## Viet

mmr said:


> This ship was protecting other ship from air attacks. (S 300 on this navy asset)
> 
> This is a significant loss for Russian navy...that will lead to disaster in coming days for other exposed russian navy assets


The loss of this big ship is very significant. Without air defense by the missile cruiser other Russian warships would not attack Odessa.

However Putin would say: hey null problemo amigo, everything runs very well according to plan.

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## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514629661971693575


----------



## mmr

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514662296949501952


How many more russians still own lol 









Fiji investigates arrival of Russian oligarch's vessel, questions captain


Fiji police investigated on Thursday the arrival of a luxury vessel suspected of being owned by a Russian oligarch, questioning its captain about how he brought the boat to the Pacific island nation.




www.reuters.com






Fiji investigates arrival of Russian oligarch's vessel, questions captain​


----------



## nang2

mmr said:


> How many more russians still own lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fiji investigates arrival of Russian oligarch's vessel, questions captain
> 
> 
> Fiji police investigated on Thursday the arrival of a luxury vessel suspected of being owned by a Russian oligarch, questioning its captain about how he brought the boat to the Pacific island nation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fiji investigates arrival of Russian oligarch's vessel, questions captain​


Just some broad daylight stealing, like Fins did with Russian artworks early on. I guess Fins eventually felt ashamed of it and returned the artworks.


----------



## mmr

nang2 said:


> Just some broad daylight stealing, like Fins did with Russian artworks early on. I guess Fins eventually felt ashamed of it and returned the artworks.


These will be returned once war is Over and russian pay the damages.

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## nang2

mmr said:


> These will be returned once war is Over and russian pay the damages.


Now, congratulations! It has become more than stealing. It is ransom.

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## Ali_Baba

letsrock said:


> So the ship really did not sink and us is not confirming a missile hit. So just another round of lies by ukraine.



What kind of weird inverted logic is that? 

It is more valid to say it was hit but did not sink ...


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514483816144031746

Reactions: Haha Haha:
3 | Wow Wow:
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## Viet

jamal18 said:


> For anybody interested, the current situation in Mariupol. Seems like the city is totally destroyed. Although the Azovs are bottled up in the steel mill, small elements are still roaming the city. About 30 minutes.


Great tactic, razing a beach city to the ground killing everything that moves. Claiming every Ukrainian is nazi. Bravo.

Ok you know it, 20y of economic progress in Russia is buried under the ruins in Mariupol.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

bobo6661 said:


> They used that card to offen recently to all nordic countries even before they tryed to join and nobody cares at this point they already put nukes in kaliningrad oblast
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia deploys nuclear-capable missile system in Kaliningrad: reports | DW | 07.02.2018
> 
> 
> The Kremlin has stressed its sovereign right to deploy missiles on Russian territory after reports that the country deployed the Iskander nuclear-capable missile system in Kaliningrad on the Baltic Sea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dw.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and thats from 6 february 2018




Deploying nuclear-capable missile and nuclear weapons are different. Nukes are only deployed in the event that a country is anticipating an existential threat. Nordic countries not caring is like committing a suicide! They should avoid provoking Russia, including not joining NATO, at any cost.

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## oberschlesier

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Deploying nuclear-capable missile and nuclear weapons are different. Nukes are only deployed in the event that a country is anticipating an existential threat. Nordic countries not caring is like committing a suicide! They should avoid provoking Russia, including not joining NATO, at any cost.


What a nonsense, this is exactly why the Nordic Countries want to join NATO.

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## monitor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514393226165329926

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514670543659839500

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514672160689823757

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514635843545223170


----------



## letsrock

Ali_Baba said:


> What kind of weird inverted logic is that?
> 
> It is more valid to say it was hit but did not sink ...



whats inverted about it. It shows claims of several people including lithunaian minister were simply made up- further putting a question on credibility.
its also valid to say there was some accident on the ship and it has nothing to do with ukraine attacks.


----------



## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Deploying nuclear-capable missile and nuclear weapons are different. Nukes are only deployed in the event that a country is anticipating an existential threat. Nordic countries not caring is like committing a suicide! They should avoid provoking Russia, including not joining NATO, at any cost.


Joining the Nato is the life insurance. They see the sad fate of Ukraine not in the NATO.

By the way Russia has nuclear missiles in place targeting Europe. that makes no difference when they move those missiles some kilometers closer to Sweden or Finland.

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## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Deploying nuclear-capable missile and nuclear weapons are different. Nukes are only deployed in the event that a country is anticipating an existential threat. Nordic countries not caring is like committing a suicide! They should avoid provoking Russia, including not joining NATO, at any cost.


Man they got both in Kaliningrad 🤦‍♂️ for a long time

Russia’s talk about the deployment of nuclear weapons in its exclave of Kaliningrad “seems rather strange”, given that those weapons “have always been kept there”, Lithuanian Defence Minister Arvydas Anušauskas has said.

https://www.lrt.lt/en/news-in-engli...reat-to-deploy-nuclear-weapons-in-kaliningrad


----------



## nang2

F-22Raptor said:


> That’s an old video


Specifically, this old video: 




This poor fellow is now famous:


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514689959164321802

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514645247325790211

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514220387667697664
Kremlin prepares to fight Ukraine.. by increasing budget for its state media


----------



## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514689959164321802
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514645247325790211




The Russians are falling into the same trap the Ukrainians set to the north of Kiev

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514658026879344647


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514694331545923590

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Get Ya Wig Split

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514694331545923590


Rest in piss Moskva

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514694898221518856

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514595137837543428

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514696142948388868


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514672420434726916


----------



## Hack-Hook

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514575706881241093
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/u36st5
> 
> war should look like this


if i were Russians i'd have located the building the projection come and used the same technique to project a broken cross on that building , then it would have become a hilarious propaganda war


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514696304496152581

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514695683785244675

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514695070330634240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514696919410483207

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514695853537218577


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514668587633594370


----------



## bobo6661

Hack-Hook said:


> if i were Russians i'd have located the building the projection come and used the same technique to project a broken cross on that building , then it would have become a hilarious propaganda war


but looks like they doing it from the street  but why a cross


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514594711700451335


----------



## nang2

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514672420434726916


This city is on the south bank of Dniper. It was occupied by Russia on Feb 24. Was it a retake of the lost?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

nang2 said:


> This city is on the south bank of Dniper. It was occupied by Russia on Feb 24. Was it a retake of the lost?



Perhaps it wasn't under the full control of Russia, but as reported, it is under full Russian control now.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514591220550574080


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514698388926873604
The trolling begins

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## J dud

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514694898221518856


I found it interesting that US downplayed the sinking of Moscova . Firstly they did not confirm its sinking & secondly they did not attribute the kill to ukrainian forces. Additionally the ukrainian government also went quiet after the initial announcement. While news has been circulating the ship sank 2 hours after the attack , i think it was also announced by Lithuania. I dont believe US & ukraine did not have the information of its sinking.

This is a humiliation for russia . The US understands this. Thats why they are not boasting about this . 


This could spark a call for revenge by the russian population who have been devided in their support of the war. This is a bad situation for everyone i think. Lets hope the war does not escalate further.


----------



## jamal18

Pro-war 'experts'on the media are actually paid/employed by the defence industry. (10 minutes).

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514676900953735172


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514695972059766787

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## Hack-Hook

bobo6661 said:


> but looks like they doing it from the street  but why a cross


if its from street some embassy employee can accidentally destroy the equipment , the broken cross because Russia claim entered Ukraine to fight neo-Nazis


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Are any of the anti-Russian posters here satanists? If so, one of your hideouts has been discovered. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514626095076847624

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## Wood

J dud said:


> *This could spark a call for revenge by the russian population who have been devided in their support of the war. *This is a bad situation for everyone i think. Lets hope the war does not escalate further.


It is unlikely that most people are able to fathom the importance of a single ship in the black sea.. even if you call it flag ship. Not everyone spends a lot of time on defense talk. More probable that an average joe will think of this as just another ship and not think much. Russia is in a 'special operation' after all, some loss is to be expected.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Russia likely lost hundreds of Russian sailors as well. I seriously doubt they rescued most of them. 


Most likely cause was Ukrainian Neptune struck the Moskva and the secondary explosions from Russian ammo caused the majority of damage and eventual sinking.

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## J dud

Wood said:


> It is unlikely that most people are able to fathom the importance of a single ship in the black sea.. even if you call it flag ship. Not everyone spends a lot of time on defense talk. More probable that an average joe will think of this as just another ship and not think much. Russia is in a 'special operation' after all, some loss is to be expected.


Yeah that could be true too. 

But i believe during world war 2 after the sinking of HMS Hood by Bismark , the was an outcry for revenge by the British. Lets hope something like that dont happen

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514586886253301761


----------



## Wood

Wikipedia updates are so quick


----------



## Constantin84

Wood said:


> It is unlikely that most people are able to fathom the importance of a single ship in the black sea.. even if you call it flag ship. Not everyone spends a lot of time on defense talk. More probable that an average joe will think of this as just another ship and not think much. Russia is in a 'special operation' after all, some loss is to be expected.


I was just reading some Russian forums ,along with the Moskva a lot of Russian hopes were sunk,many started to see the "Special operation" for the fiasco and the humiliation that it is.
Anyway, it was a nice day today, 12500 tons of Russian crap was sent to the bottom of the Black Sea,Russkies are crying over their lost flagship, Glory to Ukraine 🇺🇦

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514437533115064320


----------



## J dud

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia likely lost hundreds of Russian sailors as well. I seriously doubt they rescued most of them.
> 
> 
> Most likely cause was Ukrainian Neptune struck the Moskva and the secondary explosions from Russian ammo caused the majority of damage and eventual sinking.


I dont think it was ukranian missiles . Its probably some modern western anti ship missile. 

News have been going around for weeks that the west are to supply ukraine with anti ship weapons.

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## Viet

The Ukraine parliament declares Russia as terror organization, as terror state.
The reason: Russia political regime aims to exterminate Ukrainians, the physical genocide of Ukraine population.

Well done.














Liveblog: ++ Ukraine erklärt Russland zum Terrorstaat ++


Das ukrainische Parlament hat Russland zum Terrorstaat erklärt. Der ukrainische Außenminister Kuleba fordert von Bundeskanzler Scholz eine schnelle Zusage für weitere Waffenlieferungen. Alle Entwicklungen im Liveblog.




www.tagesschau.de

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514590980942581760


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514437533115064320


Bring it on:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514548998316736515

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514157058064625667

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514619488875925506

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512159817170890757

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514693735430426633


----------



## F-22Raptor

This is a huge loss for the Russian Navy. 

They can’t build ships at that tonnage anymore.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514682586219663365


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514698001167622147


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514660585971097608


----------



## nang2

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514660585971097608


Is that the reason why he wants to hostile take-over Twitter? Well, kudos to him!


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514707139268337673

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## Wood

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> Bring it on:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514548998316736515
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514157058064625667
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514619488875925506
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512159817170890757


Methinks these increased activity from NATO is to make sure that Putin does not attempt to strike Finland or Sweden if they join NATO. This could continue for a few months then

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514661738964262912


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514662568937201694

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## nang2

Sitrep on the war. TLDR. The first half isn't very interesting. The second half is. There is also some report on heavy fight going on near Lyman-Zarichne. It seems Russians want to make a breakthrough there.






Sitrep: Operation Z | The Vineyard of the Saker


A bird's eye view of the vineyard




thesaker.is


----------



## alimobin memon

Huge loss for russian navy. But, this is full scale war so losses are bound to happen. In the end whoever wins will be right and the who is loses will be wrong.

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## Ali_Baba

Wow - that is a significant loss - given that the other ships have now also moved over 80km away from where the incident took place - it was by every measure a missile hit.

Not bad for Ukraine - wonder if they can bag one or two more.

Ukraine is composing herself and now is undertaking offensive operations.

Just looked up the ship details - it is a large and significant ship for them to lose.

( The sinking of the ship was just announced at 10.08 pm GMT on BBC 1 News ).

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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514710568208371714
LOL pathetic

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## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> This is a huge loss for the Russian Navy.
> 
> They can’t build ships at that tonnage anymore.


Putin still has the missile cruiser Varyag the flagship of the pacific fleet. Let’s wait. He probably thinking to deploy the ship.
to attack Odessa he needs the cruiser there.
Ukraine should make a plan.

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## F-22Raptor

I wonder if the US helped in targeting the Moskva.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> Putin still has the missile cruiser Varyag from the pacific fleet. Let’s wait. He probably thinking to deploy the ship.
> to attack Odessa he needs the cruiser there.
> 
> 
> View attachment 834442



Would Putin be allowed to deploy it from the Pacific fleet to the Black Sea? Since its home base is not in the black sea - ( i guess i should ready the treaty on what is allowed when though via the The Montreux Convention )


----------



## Messerschmitt

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514698388926873604
> The trolling begins




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514707592316178440

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## Ali_Baba

Without the Moskva, Russia’s Black Sea fleet is far more exposed to missiles and drones​








Without the Moskva, Russia’s Black Sea fleet is far more exposed to missiles and drones


The fleet lacks vessels with a comparable air defence suite, and will thus find it more risky to conduct similar operations




www.telegraph.co.uk





Looks like Ukraine is gearing up to take a few more out now that they have managed to remove the defensive cover.

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## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> Would Putin be allowed to deploy it from the Pacific fleet to the Black Sea? Since its home base is not in the black sea - ( i guess i should ready the treaty on what is allowed when though via the The Montreux Convention )


I don’t know. Would be interesting to know. The cruiser Varyag will take weeks to get into position before Ukrainian coast. Passing the South China Sea, probably get refuel and restocking in Camranh bay (if Vietnam allows at all).
That would delay russian plan of attack.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514711761538228226

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

Germany allocates 3 billion euros for floating LNG terminals to wean itself off Russian gas..







https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/germanys-lng-import-project-plans-2022-03-31/


----------



## Foinikas

Meanwhile in democratic Europe...

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## mmr

Foinikas said:


> Meanwhile in democratic Europe...
> 
> View attachment 834447


fake news


----------



## Foinikas

mmr said:


> fake news


Ok then,give link and explain so that I delete the post


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514717131438501894

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## mmr

Foinikas said:


> Ok then,give link and explain so that I delete the post


Russians are famous liars. from top to bottom.

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## Foinikas

mmr said:


> Russians are famous liars. from top to bottom.


That's your arguement? That's the proof? The debunking of the picture?

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1 | Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514712097401282563

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514712100236632068

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514712100236632068

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514712102241542148

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514712876682035204


----------



## Constantin84

Just,please remember, this is the fleet that flexed its muscles against the Japanese a few weeks ago.Imagine what the Japanese Navy would do these russkie rust buckets

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514658583719428104


----------



## bobo6661

Messerschmitt said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514707592316178440


found this gem would fit with the "they blown themself up "

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514612128958742532

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514651539897475074


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514710716367921161

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## Gripen9

F-22Raptor said:


> I wonder if the US helped in targeting the Moskva.


Most probably.
US has ISR platforms all around the theater plus satellites. All those senior leadership targeting was provided by the US.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514296761711575040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514613600114991106

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ali_Baba

Customary YouTube video analysis of how the ship was beaten and sunk..


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

letsrock said:


> So the ship really did not sink and us is not confirming a missile hit. So just another round of lies by ukraine.


Here is one report from Pravda News.


----------



## Wood

Putin's planned victory parade on May 9 should also sink like Moscova 😏


----------



## The SC

There are 3,000 Ukrainian prisoners of war in Donbass now


https://twitter.com/Rahmon83




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514416998180175872

Reactions: Love Love:
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## CAPRICORN-88

Apparently even the *US Pentagon has expressed its doubt over the claim* made by the Ukrainian over Moskva.


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514724874929025039


----------



## Oublious

Moskva Russican cruiser shot in the black sea and sunk...

The ship is not bad armed, S-300 SAM with CIWS.

The Russian arm industry is leveled down.


----------



## Foinikas

Wood said:


> Putin's planned victory parade on May 9 should also sink like Moscova 😏


The Indian has spoken!







1990 - 2000​
August 1990 : INS _Andaman_, an Arnala-class corvette sank during an anti-submarine warfare exercise on the return journey to Visakhapatnam from the Andamans. A small leak in the aft steering led to flooding and engine shutdown (considered routine amid deferred maintenance). However it could not be repaired and flooded and sank amid choppy seas. 15 sailors died.[7]

2000 - 2010​
December 2005: INS _Trishul_, a _ Talwar_-class frigate, collided with a commercial vessel, _Ambuja Laxmi_, outside the Mumbai harbor, while returning from a training mission. This class of ship uses stealth technology and a special hull design to ensure a reduced radar cross section. Radar systems installed by the port authorities and those on board _Ambuja Laxmi_ were unable to detect INS _Trishul_ and prevent the side on collision. No casualties were reported.[8][9]
April 2006: INS _Prahar_, a _ Veer_-class corvette, sank after colliding with MV _Rajiv Gandhi_ about 20 nautical miles (37 km; 23 mi) away from the Goa coast. No casualties were reported. The commanding officer of the ship, Lieutenant Commander Yogesh Tripathi was found guilty of negligence by an Indian Navy court-martial and removed from Command.[10]
September 2006: INS _Dunagiri_, a _ Nilgiri_-class frigate, collided with a Shipping Corporation of India merchant vessel, MV _Kiti_, off the coast of Mumbai. There were no casualties, but the Dunagiri suffered damage and required extensive repairs.[11][12]
January 2008: INS _Sindhughosh_, a Kilo-class submarine, collided with a foreign merchant vessel MV _Leeds Castle_ while trying to surface in waters north of Mumbai.[9] The submarine was taking part in fleet-level war games, when the accident occurred. The Navy termed it a minor incident with no casualties reported.
August 2009: A collision of the missile corvette INS _Kuthar_ with destroyer INS _Ranvir_ in the Bay of Bengal was traced to a rudder failure, compounded by a flawed maneuver.[1]

2010 - present​
In 2010, three crew members on destroyer INS _Mumbai_ were instantly killed when an AK-630 Close-in weapon system went off as safety drills were not followed.[1]
January 2011: INS _Vindhyagiri_, a _ Nilgiri_-class frigate, capsized after a collision with a Cyprus-flagged merchant vessel MV _Nordlake_ near the Sunk Rock light house, following which a major fire broke out in the ship's engine and boiler room. Everyone on board was evacuated as soon as the fire broke out and hence there were no casualties.[13] INS _Vindhyagiri_ was later decommissioned.[14]
August 2013: Blasts ripped through the torpedo compartment of the submarine INS _Sindhurakshak_ while it was berthed at the naval dockyard off the Mumbai coast. Fifteen sailors and three officers were killed.[15] Other sources state that a small explosion occurred around midnight which then triggered the two larger explosions.[16] The disaster was thought to be the Indian navy's worst since the sinking a frigate by a Pakistani submarine during the Bangladesh Liberation War.[17]
December 2013: In the second incident in the same month, INS _Talwar_, the lead ship of the _ Talwar_-class frigates of the Indian Navy, collided with a fishing trawler injuring four of the 27 people on board the trawler and sinking it. The fishing trawler was operating without lights.[18] The captain of the ship was subsequently stripped of command.[19]
December 2013: In the third incident in the same month, INS _Tarkash_, again a _Talwar_-class frigate, suffered damage to its hull when it hit the jetty while docking at the Mumbai naval base. The navy ordered a board of inquiry.[20]
January 2014: INS _Betwa_, a _ Brahmaputra_-class guided missile frigate, ran aground and collided with an unidentified object while approaching the Mumbai naval base. The sonar system of the frigate was cracked, leading to faulty readings and an ingress of saltwater into sensitive equipment.[21]
February 2014: On 26 February, INS _Sindhuratna_, a Kilo-class submarine, had a fire detected on board when trials were being conducted which resulted in smoke leading to suffocation and death of two officers. Seven sailors were reported injured and were airlifted to the naval base hospital in Mumbai.[22] According to the naval board of inquiry, the fire was caused due to problems in the cables of the vessel. This particular incident led to the resignation of Chief of Naval Staff (CNS) Admiral D K Joshi on 26 February 2014, who owned moral responsibility for the incidents in the past few months.[23]
March 2014: INS _Kolkata_ had a malfunction on board which led to a toxic gas leak killing Commander Kuntal Wadhwa instantly. According to the Indian Navy, the ship suffered a malfunction in its carbon dioxide unit while undergoing machinery trials, leading to gas leakage.[24] Since the ship was not commissioned at the time of the incident, the enquiry into the mishap will be done by Mazagon Dock Limited, where the ship was constructed.
March 2014: One civilian worker was killed and two people were injured in an accident in Vishakapatnam where India was building its nuclear ballistic submarines. The incident took place when the pressure of the hydraulic tank of the Arihant class submarine was being tested and the tank's lid fell on the workers at Building-5 of the shipbuilding centre.[25]
May 2014: INS _Ganga_ suffered a minor explosion in the boiler room while undergoing a refit at the Mumbai dockyard. Four people suffered minor injuries. There was no fire and no equipment was damaged.[26]
November 2014: Indian Navy's Astravahini-class torpedo recovery vessel TRV A 72 sank off Vishakapatnam during a routine exercise on 6 Nov 2014; one sailor was killed during the rescue and four were missing, feared dead. The auxiliary ship sank to a depth of about 370 meters, about 35 nautical miles south of Visakhapatnam and 28 nautical miles from the closest point of the coast. At the time of incident there were 28 personnel on board of which 24 were rescued by naval ships.[27] The main cause of the accident was indicated as cracks in the seals attached to the shaft, which allowed in sea- water and resulted in flooding [28] This was one of 24 accidents in the previous 3 years involving Indian naval ships and submarines reported in the Rajya Sabha by the Defence Minister in response to a query [29]
April 2016: A sailor lost his leg while two others were injured in an oxygen cylinder explosion on board INS _Nireekshak_. The explosion took place on 16 April while a diving bailout bottle, a small 12-inch (30 cm) oxygen bottle that is carried by divers in their diving helmet, was being charged. The sailors were admitted in the Military Hospital, Trivandrum as the ship was on it way to Mumbai from Visakhapatnam.[30][31]
June 2016: Two people, a sailor and a civilian contractor, were killed by a toxic gas leak that occurred during maintenance work in the Sewage Treatment Plant compartment during the first refit of the aircraft carrier INS _Vikramaditya_ at Karwar. Two other people were injured and taken to the naval hospital.[32][33]
August 2016: A minor fire broke out at _INS Dega_ after a MiG-29K accidentally jettisoned one of its drop tanks.[34]
October 2016: Sub Lieutenant Tejveer Singh died on 11 October 2016 onboard INS _Kuthar_ after he accidentally fired his 9mm pistol. He was shifted to Naval Hospital INHS Kalyani in Visakhapatnam where he succumbed to his injuries.[35]
November 2016: The front portion of INS _Nashak_ was damaged when its GT engines failed in Mumbai harbor and it collided with a jetty on 18 November.[36]
December 2016: Two sailors died and 14 others were injured when INS _Betwa_ tipped over and crashed on its side while it was undocking in Mumbai on 6 December. The main mast of the ship broke when it tipped over due to a failure in the dock block mechanism. The ship was being undocked after undergoing a midlife refit.[37][38]
January 2017: A minor fire broke out at 11.40am on 10 January in the Gyro compartment of INS _Pralay_ during welding work at Mumbai naval dockyard. The fire was extinguished by the ship's staff and the Naval Dockyard fire station and no one was injured during the incident.[39][40]
October 2021: Four sailors were injured when a fire broke out on the INS _Ranvijay_ while it was berthed in Vishakapathanam.[41]
January 2022: Three sailors died and eleven others were injured when an explosion took place aboard the INS _Ranvir_ while it was docked in Mumbai.[42]

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## CAPRICORN-88

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514724874929025039



The question is:

Will Russia escalated the war by using these attacks on villages as justifications for decapitation strikes against the administration targets in Kiev?

Where will Zalensky And his AZOV nazi team hide then?

Go into exile in NATO nation like Poland?

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## LeGenD

DF41 said:


> USA vaunted defense cannot even defend Saudi Arabia against a handful of slow poke sub mach drones and missiles
> 
> 
> 
> How then your touted defense systems all failed in Saudi Arabia?
> 
> 
> 
> And that against only puny sub sonic slow poke drones and missiles
> 
> 
> 
> Murica touted ability with their super duper missiles of Thaad and Patriot and Aegis to defend KSA that Murica so clearly and explicitly demonstrated to te entire world
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...es-destroy-houthi-drones-state-tv-2022-03-25/_
> 
> 
> 
> So you think you be doing much much better against supersonics and hypersonics missiles by the hundreds and thousands?
> 
> 
> Tell us again of the *LAYERED DEFENSE SYSTEM *that Saudi Arabia bought from USA
> 
> On March 25 or about 3 weeks ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saudi Aramco storage facility targeted by Houthi attack, causing fire - Our Today
> 
> 
> RIYADH (Reuters) Yemen's Houthis said they launched attacks on Saudi energy facilities on Friday (March 25) and the Saudi-led coalition said oil giant Aramco's petroleum products distribution station in Jeddah was hit, causing a fire in two storage tanks but no casualties. A huge plume of black...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> our.today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No wonder Saudi Arabia lost all respect for USA and not only refused to accept call from Sleepy Joe.
> 
> But created a parody of Sleepy Joe and his Kamala as a sign of the esteem Saudi got for USA now and the failure of USA defensive systems that cannot even stop slow poke attacks from slow poke drones and slow poke missiles.



Name one country where A2/AD arrangements could *NOT* be breached in times of war.

Iraq?
Yugoslavia?
Libya?
Syria?
Israel?
Ukraine?
Russia?

Saudi A2/AD arrangements have produced numerous intercepts and prevented much damage in the country:














Interactive: The Missile War in Yemen | Missile Threat


Despite major efforts to negate Houthi ballistic missile assets through airstrikes, the tempo of ballistic missile activity in Yemen continues.




missilethreat.csis.org





Saudi territory is huge and very costly to shield, however.

A2/AD arrangements are found to be historically ~30% effective in warfare (percentage was much lower in some countries). Saudi A2/AD arrangements have produced better results in comparison. This is in part due to superior technologies in use.

Credit should be given where due.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514734342571974656

Now confirmed by Pentagon


----------



## mmr

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514680391940153348

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514541179651690496

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514618924624613388


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

If it is indeed confirmed by the US Pentagon, it should be in the Pentagon website and not in a blogger. 

So many FAKE news

Reactions: Like Like:
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## mmr

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514696730855542791

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## CAPRICORN-88

Pentagon has only confirmed EXPLOSION onboard Moskva and that is something we all already knew.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514493432433106946

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

Foinikas said:


> The Indian has spoken!
> 
> View attachment 834464
> 
> 
> 1990 - 2000​
> August 1990 : INS _Andaman_, an Arnala-class corvette sank during an anti-submarine warfare exercise on the return journey to Visakhapatnam from the Andamans. A small leak in the aft steering led to flooding and engine shutdown (considered routine amid deferred maintenance). However it could not be repaired and flooded and sank amid choppy seas. 15 sailors died.[7]
> 
> 2000 - 2010​
> December 2005: INS _Trishul_, a _ Talwar_-class frigate, collided with a commercial vessel, _Ambuja Laxmi_, outside the Mumbai harbor, while returning from a training mission. This class of ship uses stealth technology and a special hull design to ensure a reduced radar cross section. Radar systems installed by the port authorities and those on board _Ambuja Laxmi_ were unable to detect INS _Trishul_ and prevent the side on collision. No casualties were reported.[8][9]
> April 2006: INS _Prahar_, a _ Veer_-class corvette, sank after colliding with MV _Rajiv Gandhi_ about 20 nautical miles (37 km; 23 mi) away from the Goa coast. No casualties were reported. The commanding officer of the ship, Lieutenant Commander Yogesh Tripathi was found guilty of negligence by an Indian Navy court-martial and removed from Command.[10]
> September 2006: INS _Dunagiri_, a _ Nilgiri_-class frigate, collided with a Shipping Corporation of India merchant vessel, MV _Kiti_, off the coast of Mumbai. There were no casualties, but the Dunagiri suffered damage and required extensive repairs.[11][12]
> January 2008: INS _Sindhughosh_, a Kilo-class submarine, collided with a foreign merchant vessel MV _Leeds Castle_ while trying to surface in waters north of Mumbai.[9] The submarine was taking part in fleet-level war games, when the accident occurred. The Navy termed it a minor incident with no casualties reported.
> August 2009: A collision of the missile corvette INS _Kuthar_ with destroyer INS _Ranvir_ in the Bay of Bengal was traced to a rudder failure, compounded by a flawed maneuver.[1]
> 
> 2010 - present​
> In 2010, three crew members on destroyer INS _Mumbai_ were instantly killed when an AK-630 Close-in weapon system went off as safety drills were not followed.[1]
> January 2011: INS _Vindhyagiri_, a _ Nilgiri_-class frigate, capsized after a collision with a Cyprus-flagged merchant vessel MV _Nordlake_ near the Sunk Rock light house, following which a major fire broke out in the ship's engine and boiler room. Everyone on board was evacuated as soon as the fire broke out and hence there were no casualties.[13] INS _Vindhyagiri_ was later decommissioned.[14]
> August 2013: Blasts ripped through the torpedo compartment of the submarine INS _Sindhurakshak_ while it was berthed at the naval dockyard off the Mumbai coast. Fifteen sailors and three officers were killed.[15] Other sources state that a small explosion occurred around midnight which then triggered the two larger explosions.[16] The disaster was thought to be the Indian navy's worst since the sinking a frigate by a Pakistani submarine during the Bangladesh Liberation War.[17]
> December 2013: In the second incident in the same month, INS _Talwar_, the lead ship of the _ Talwar_-class frigates of the Indian Navy, collided with a fishing trawler injuring four of the 27 people on board the trawler and sinking it. The fishing trawler was operating without lights.[18] The captain of the ship was subsequently stripped of command.[19]
> December 2013: In the third incident in the same month, INS _Tarkash_, again a _Talwar_-class frigate, suffered damage to its hull when it hit the jetty while docking at the Mumbai naval base. The navy ordered a board of inquiry.[20]
> January 2014: INS _Betwa_, a _ Brahmaputra_-class guided missile frigate, ran aground and collided with an unidentified object while approaching the Mumbai naval base. The sonar system of the frigate was cracked, leading to faulty readings and an ingress of saltwater into sensitive equipment.[21]
> February 2014: On 26 February, INS _Sindhuratna_, a Kilo-class submarine, had a fire detected on board when trials were being conducted which resulted in smoke leading to suffocation and death of two officers. Seven sailors were reported injured and were airlifted to the naval base hospital in Mumbai.[22] According to the naval board of inquiry, the fire was caused due to problems in the cables of the vessel. This particular incident led to the resignation of Chief of Naval Staff (CNS) Admiral D K Joshi on 26 February 2014, who owned moral responsibility for the incidents in the past few months.[23]
> March 2014: INS _Kolkata_ had a malfunction on board which led to a toxic gas leak killing Commander Kuntal Wadhwa instantly. According to the Indian Navy, the ship suffered a malfunction in its carbon dioxide unit while undergoing machinery trials, leading to gas leakage.[24] Since the ship was not commissioned at the time of the incident, the enquiry into the mishap will be done by Mazagon Dock Limited, where the ship was constructed.
> March 2014: One civilian worker was killed and two people were injured in an accident in Vishakapatnam where India was building its nuclear ballistic submarines. The incident took place when the pressure of the hydraulic tank of the Arihant class submarine was being tested and the tank's lid fell on the workers at Building-5 of the shipbuilding centre.[25]
> May 2014: INS _Ganga_ suffered a minor explosion in the boiler room while undergoing a refit at the Mumbai dockyard. Four people suffered minor injuries. There was no fire and no equipment was damaged.[26]
> November 2014: Indian Navy's Astravahini-class torpedo recovery vessel TRV A 72 sank off Vishakapatnam during a routine exercise on 6 Nov 2014; one sailor was killed during the rescue and four were missing, feared dead. The auxiliary ship sank to a depth of about 370 meters, about 35 nautical miles south of Visakhapatnam and 28 nautical miles from the closest point of the coast. At the time of incident there were 28 personnel on board of which 24 were rescued by naval ships.[27] The main cause of the accident was indicated as cracks in the seals attached to the shaft, which allowed in sea- water and resulted in flooding [28] This was one of 24 accidents in the previous 3 years involving Indian naval ships and submarines reported in the Rajya Sabha by the Defence Minister in response to a query [29]
> April 2016: A sailor lost his leg while two others were injured in an oxygen cylinder explosion on board INS _Nireekshak_. The explosion took place on 16 April while a diving bailout bottle, a small 12-inch (30 cm) oxygen bottle that is carried by divers in their diving helmet, was being charged. The sailors were admitted in the Military Hospital, Trivandrum as the ship was on it way to Mumbai from Visakhapatnam.[30][31]
> June 2016: Two people, a sailor and a civilian contractor, were killed by a toxic gas leak that occurred during maintenance work in the Sewage Treatment Plant compartment during the first refit of the aircraft carrier INS _Vikramaditya_ at Karwar. Two other people were injured and taken to the naval hospital.[32][33]
> August 2016: A minor fire broke out at _INS Dega_ after a MiG-29K accidentally jettisoned one of its drop tanks.[34]
> October 2016: Sub Lieutenant Tejveer Singh died on 11 October 2016 onboard INS _Kuthar_ after he accidentally fired his 9mm pistol. He was shifted to Naval Hospital INHS Kalyani in Visakhapatnam where he succumbed to his injuries.[35]
> November 2016: The front portion of INS _Nashak_ was damaged when its GT engines failed in Mumbai harbor and it collided with a jetty on 18 November.[36]
> December 2016: Two sailors died and 14 others were injured when INS _Betwa_ tipped over and crashed on its side while it was undocking in Mumbai on 6 December. The main mast of the ship broke when it tipped over due to a failure in the dock block mechanism. The ship was being undocked after undergoing a midlife refit.[37][38]
> January 2017: A minor fire broke out at 11.40am on 10 January in the Gyro compartment of INS _Pralay_ during welding work at Mumbai naval dockyard. The fire was extinguished by the ship's staff and the Naval Dockyard fire station and no one was injured during the incident.[39][40]
> October 2021: Four sailors were injured when a fire broke out on the INS _Ranvijay_ while it was berthed in Vishakapathanam.[41]
> January 2022: Three sailors died and eleven others were injured when an explosion took place aboard the INS _Ranvir_ while it was docked in Mumbai.[42]


Good effort. Cry harder

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## Oublious

mmr said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514696730855542791




faking hilarious

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## CAPRICORN-88

While Russian may be embarrassed by this incidence over an unexplained fire onboard that lead to explosion, the UK used its News Media to create fake images and PS photo to exaggerate the incident. 

Russia said Moskva is back in the port after the fire was contained. 

We will just have wait and see.

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## Oublious

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> If it is indeed confirmed by the US Pentagon, it should be in the Pentagon website and not in a blogger.
> 
> So many FAKE news




what is fake? The ship is at the moment bottom of the Black sea. Officially confirmed by Russian MOD.

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## The SC

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Pentagon has only confirmed EXPLOSION onboard Moskva and that is something we all already kne




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514693735430426633

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514713736887652359

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## PakFactor

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514493432433106946



Russians' should go Dresden right about now on Ukraine, or should've a long time ago.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514718239686864898

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## Foinikas

Wood said:


> Good effort. Cry harder


Why would I cry? It's not my ship.

On the contrary,it seems like Indians are bad sailors apart from bad airmen. At least the Russians lost their ships at war,you guys are destroying them on your own.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514662641301696515

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514309947391189000


----------



## Foinikas

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> While Russian may be embarrassed by this incidence over an unexplained fire onboard that lead to explosion, the UK used its News Media to create fake images and PS photo to exaggerate the incident.
> 
> Russia said Moskva is back in the port after the fire was contained.
> 
> We will just have wait and see.


Turks did the same thing with a poorly-made photoshop picture after the Greek frigate Limnos touched with the Kemal Reis.
They said that our ship was so badly damaged,that it was towed to a harbor for repairs. Meanwhile,it was their ship that instead left for repairs asap and ours took part in an exercise with the French and Italians 1 or 2 days later:









Τραγικοί! Ούτε ένα photoshop της προκοπής δεν μπορούν να κάνουν οι προπαγανδιστές του Ερντογάν - Πτήση & Διάστημα


Γέλιο και θυμηδία προκαλεί η προσπάθεια τουρκικών φιλοκυβερνητικών μέσων να παρουσιάσουν τη Φ/Γ “ΛΗΜΝΟΣ” με δήθεν ζημιές από την επακούμβηση με την TCG Kemalreis...




www.ptisidiastima.com

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514638759211540489

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## Wood

Foinikas said:


> Why would I cry? It's not my ship.
> 
> On the contrary,it seems like Indians are bad sailors apart from bad airmen. At least the Russians lost their ships at war,you guys are destroying them on your own.


Yet, you feel the need to write a reply when you are not spoken to. Clearly, you are bothered. The troll inside me feels thrilled to see you cry. Cry more

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514572761036951563

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514739415096123400


----------



## Foinikas

Wood said:


> Yet, you feel the need to write a reply when you are not spoken to. Clearly, you are bothered. The troll inside me feel thrilled to see you cry. Cry more


Lol,I'm replying because you seem so overjoyed,as if you won the war yourself. And yet your Indian navy sinks its own ships. India superpower sir.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Oublious said:


> what is fake? The ship is at the moment bottom of the Black sea. Officially confirmed by Russian MOD.


Can you confirmed it? If you can't then it is FAKE news. 
Kindly provide the Russia MoD link that confirmed it.
I see, tou are just another victim yourself of the disinformation campaign.

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## Wood

Foinikas said:


> Lol,I'm replying because you seem so overjoyed,as if you won the war yourself. And yet your Indian navy sinks its own ships. India superpower sir.


I have you in the hook now. Don't stop responding to a conversation that I do not even bother to read. I was hoping to see you cry like this someday. Now it is delightful to see it happen. Cry some more


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514621529635667968


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

I have posted a video link to Pravda News on the status of Moskva.

BTW there is a fake news law in Russia now and those found guilty may ended up in jail up to 15 years. 

This is unlike in the US and UK where use its agencies like Homeland Security and Special Branch to threaten and gag reporters. They don't go to jail. Thry just vanished e.g. Hawaii separatist activists.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514711761538228226





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514719089607991297

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## CAPRICORN-88

AFAIK apart from the last standout at Avovstal Steelworks, Mariupol is almost completely under the control of Russian force.


----------



## F-22Raptor

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Can you confirmed it? If you can't then it is FAKE news.
> Kindly provide the Russia MoD link that confirmed it.
> I see, tou are just another victim yourself of the disinformation campaign.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514701643237011461

It’s been confirmed by the Russian MoD as well as the Pentagon.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Why I don't buy the Ukrainian story about Moskva and others are: 

*The Ukrainian Air Forces, Navy or its radars do not existed anymore? *

The Ukrainian soldiers themselves admitted, their greatest fear of Russia is from the air.

So the pockets resistance from discommunicated and low morale Ukrainian soldiers who are largely disorganised and scattered. Out of ammunitions and food supplies.

The minute they switch on their radar, they will be detected. The US GPS are not working in Ukraine. They are all jammed. 

Russian Air Forces flew up to 250 sorties daily up from 200.

So for anyone who is trying to convince me Ukrainian is winning will hits a nail.

Zalensky has an opportunity to put all these right back in Feb 8 2022 but he choose to snub the meeting at the advice of the US, NATO and his AZOV team bringing calamity to his nation. 

The meeting on Feb 8 was basically for him to state his commitment to Minsk II agreement filed with the United Nation. 

Sigh. Now Ukraine has to live with a new Ukraine minus all the independent province facing the Black Sea.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514754940731863043


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514701643237011461
> 
> It’s been confirmed by the Russian MoD as well as the Pentagon.


Those are bloggers who are fond of taking words out of context and not the Russian Ministry of Defense. 

Stop trolling and post real news.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514754940731863043


It is also highly likely Washington is on fire but it is NOT. 

And he is not even stating it officially. 

That is how US manipulated information. 

See how words are twisted.

We are neither naive nor small kids.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514462314812030981

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## CAPRICORN-88

If it is confirmed the Pentagon spokesman confirmed it and published in its website.

Show us the Pentagon website.


----------



## F-22Raptor

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Those are bloggers who are fond of taking words out of context and not the Russian Ministry of Defense.
> 
> Stop trolling and post real news.
> 
> 
> It is also highly likely Washington is on fire but it is NOT.
> 
> And he is not even stating it officially.
> 
> That is how US manipulated information.
> 
> See how words are twisted.
> 
> We are neither naive nor small kids.




Please stop spreading misinformation. It’s already been confirmed by the Russian MoD and the news of the sinking is everywhere.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514462314812030981


They all just loved to play soldier after playing maid, nurse, etc in cosplay and porns.


----------



## F-22Raptor

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Those are bloggers who are fond of taking words out of context and not the Russian Ministry of Defense.
> 
> Stop trolling and post real news.
> 
> 
> It is also highly likely Washington is on fire but it is NOT.
> 
> And he is not even stating it officially.
> 
> That is how US manipulated information.
> 
> See how words are twisted.
> 
> We are neither naive nor small kids.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514694135004999689


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

F-22Raptor said:


> Please stop spreading misinformation. It’s already been confirmed by the Russian MoD and the news of the sinking is everywhere.


Show us the Pentagon briefing or website and not pro-US bloggers comments. They are unsubstantiated.

Kindly stop referring me.

I don't communicate with trolls.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514694135004999689


To me it is still another Fake News.
Show me the report from official Russia MoD website and not the fake PS one.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514572182797656066

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## CAPRICORN-88

Moskva cruiser sank while being towed in a storm - Russian Defense Ministry​"During the towing of the Moskva cruiser to the designation port, the ship lost stability due to hull damage, sustained during the detonation of ammunition because of a fire. Amid the heavy storm, the ship sank," the Ministry said.​MOSCOW, April 14. /TASS/. The Moskva missile cruiser sank while being towed amid storm because of hull damage sustained during the detonation of ammunition, Russian Defense Ministry said Thursday.
"During the towing of the Moskva cruiser to the designation port, the ship lost stability due to hull damage, sustained during the detonation of ammunition because of a fire. Amid the heavy storm, the ship sank," the Ministry said.
The Ministry underscored that the crew was evacuated to nearby Black Sea Fleet ships, as was announced earlier.
Earlier on Thursday, Russian Defense Ministry reported that Black Sea Fleet missile cruiser Moskva sustained serious damage after a detonation of ammunition, caused by an onboard fire. The Ministry said that the crew was evacuated to nearby Black Sea Fleet ships, adding that the cause of the incident is being determined.
The Ministry said later that the cruiser remained buoyant, and its main weapons were not damaged, adding that towing is being attempted.
Moskva was the flagship of the Black Sea fleet, and a lead ship of Project 1164. It was commissioned in 1983 under the name of Slava ("Glory"). In 1996, the cruiser received its current name. Its main weapon is 16 P-1000 Vulkan missile launchers.

Tass

Incidentally the website to Russia Ministry of Defense is blocked by the US and West. Why do they need to do that?

And so we can only depends on Russia own News Media for verification. Sorry I don't trust those from US sources esp. their bloggers.


----------



## Foinikas

Wood said:


> I have you in the hook now. Don't stop responding to a conversation that I do not even bother to read. I was hoping to see you cry like this someday. Now it is delightful to see it happen. Cry some more


Truly Indians are deluded people. Pakistanis in the forum are right.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514466679773810690

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514601118893969414


----------



## INS_Vikrant

Wood said:


> Putin's planned victory parade on May 9 should also sink like Moscova 😏



Putin in his quest of making Russian Federation into USSR/Imperial Tsardom/Byzantine Empire would end up making it Duchy of Muscovy

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## CAPRICORN-88

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514466679773810690


Great post.

That is how UK MSM e.g. manipulated information. 
Neptune missiles can packed such a powerful deadly explosion and everybody.onboard were dead.

The US or UK MSM either edited it or fabricated them e.g. Ghost of Kiev, dead body that came alive actually came from a world environmental program and not in Ukraine. 

The truth are unveiling.

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## Wood

Foinikas said:


> Truly Indians are deluded people. Pakistanis in the forum are right.


There you are again. Keep crying some more. I know that I have you in a monkey's trap now and you are too foolish to let go.

Putin will loose more ships. Now I hope to keep you crying here for at least a week for this one

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## The SC

A Russian video from 2009 under the name "The cruiser Moscow Never Sleeps."


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> Please stop spreading misinformation. It’s already been confirmed by the Russian MoD and the news of the sinking is everywhere.



Show us a reputable Russian source, including the Russian MOD, confirming it. If you can't, it is part of the fake news that became a routine for Western propagandists.

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## merzifonlu

"The Cruiser Moscow Forever Sleeps." LOL

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514724874929025039


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

The Moskva was designed to counter US Aircraft Carriers during the 1980's Soviet era and do not have any land missile attack ability.

It is already obsolete and mainly used as a radar and radio command ship today for other Russian warship in the fleet due to its size. 

Hence it is true as per Soviet propaganda it never sleeps. 

Russia only started reconstruction of new warships for her navy after a period of stagnation.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

All over Ukraine tonight, a massive aerial campaign has been reported. Could this be the start of the second wave of the "special military operation" to de-nazify Ukraine?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514753720684269568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514738550008340482

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514741698181701634


----------



## INS_Vikrant

This war really showcases deficiencies of most of Russian military equipment in 21st century warfare. I don't understand why our government still keeps on buying Russian Junks. In past I get it we l had very tight defense budget nor had access to military tech from West but now that we do still 70% of our weapon purchase are of Russian origin God knows why. And cost isn't a factor while Russian equipment costs less upfront it's service and maintenance cost makes it way more more expensive and headache. Not to forget we have to spend further again to upgrade those equipments with local/israeli/western subsystems.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514753720684269568
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514738550008340482


What did they hit this time? 

Administration Building??? 

Hope Russia did not upgrade the war to the stage of decapitation as we were predicting. 

If it is true then Zalensky and team better find a deeper bunker to hide himself.

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## Wergeland

INS_Vikrant said:


> This war really showcases deficiencies of most of Russian military equipment in 21st century warfare. I don't understand why our government still keeps on buying Russian Junks. In past I get it we l had very tight defense budget nor had access to military tech from West but now that we do still 70% of our weapon purchase are of Russian origin God knows why. And cost isn't a factor while Russian equipment costs less upfront it's service and maintenance cost makes it way more more expensive and headache. Not to forget we have to spend further again to upgrade those equipments with local/israeli/western subsystems.



Its because India wants to create a multipolar world, just like rests of the bricks. Indian foreign policy is independent and not into any camps or alliance if i am not totally wrong.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> What did they hit this time?
> 
> Administration Building???
> 
> Hope Russia did not upgrade the war to the stage of decapitation as we were predicting.
> 
> If it is true then Zalensky and team better find a deeper bunker to hide himself.




I am assuming the second wave of the offensive is starting. Electricity, communications, and military facilities and equipment are part of the targets.

In the last 3 days, over 3,000 Ukrainians have surrendered. So Western propagandists are hiding this crushing blow they suffered in Mariupol and screaming 24 hours with the ship that malfunctioned.

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## Wood

INS_Vikrant said:


> This war really showcases deficiencies of most of Russian military equipment in 21st century warfare. I don't understand why our government still keeps on buying Russian Junks. In past I get it we l had very tight defense budget nor had access to military tech from West but now that we do still 70% of our weapon purchase are of Russian origin God knows why. And cost isn't a factor while Russian equipment costs less upfront it's service and maintenance cost makes it way more more expensive and headache. Not to forget we have to spend further again to upgrade those equipments with local/israeli/western subsystems.


Cost is still a big factor for India. Russia not only offers weapons with low upfront cost but also provides more technology and manufacturing support than western countries. French are more willing to work with India these days, but the price tag is hefty.

As much as I would like India to move into western weapons eco system from a strategic viewpoint, it is not so easy.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514724874929025039

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514662528718196745

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514685977536647184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514661915842203658


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514740308260659202 
Once again confirmed by multiple international sources

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## Hassan Al-Somal

INS_Vikrant said:


> This war really showcases deficiencies of most of Russian military equipment in 21st century warfare. I don't understand why our government still keeps on buying Russian Junks. In past I get it we l had very tight defense budget nor had access to military tech from West but now that we do still 70% of our weapon purchase are of Russian origin God knows why. And cost isn't a factor while Russian equipment costs less upfront it's service and maintenance cost makes it way more more expensive and headache. Not to forget we have to spend further again to upgrade those equipments with local/israeli/western subsystems.



Human error can't be blamed on the capability of the military equipment. Russia's biggest shortcoming in this war has been not understanding who it is fighting. It seems all their planning was focused on the Ukrainians without taking into account the direct participation of the West in this conflict.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514348276102877186

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514345898838564870

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514333000649031688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514320696020717582


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514740308260659202
> Once again confirmed by multiple international sources




But then you aren't bothered by the more than 3000 Ukrainians that have surrendered yesterday. So which one is important: An aging ship vs 3000 men who were taken as prisoner of war and over 200 wounded that were also captured by the Russian forces? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514592711403356163

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514256985155375108

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514259002431094791

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## Hassan Al-Somal

General General Alexander Dvornikov has reported to work in this "special military operation". 


























__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514716632983212042

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514718239686864898


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514252447786676233

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## Wood

Good video about the sunk cruiser for a lay man

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## The SC

It is reported that after this strike, the light went out in Kyiv


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514739073776300032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514737488111325189

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514741257217654784

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514744480078958597


----------



## Type59

alimobin memon said:


> Huge loss for russian navy. But, this is full scale war so losses are bound to happen. In the end whoever wins will be right and the who is loses will be wrong.



That's what these arm chair generals don't understand, wars are unpredictable.

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## The SC

Strong fire in the 39th Tactical Aviation Brigade of the Ukrainian Air Force


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514735267881574400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514727949391519744
The last major oil refinery in Ukraine was destroyed. The Kalibrov blow was directed specifically at the last plant in Ivano-Frankivsk.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514737054206373894
Attacks on Kharkov


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514736668414259209


----------



## Elvin

Perhaps the Russians first phase was to test the UA army and their weapons?


INS_Vikrant said:


> This war really showcases deficiencies of most of Russian military equipment in 21st century warfare. I don't understand why our government still keeps on buying Russian Junks. In past I get it we l had very tight defense budget nor had access to military tech from West but now that we do still 70% of our weapon purchase are of Russian origin God knows why. And cost isn't a factor while Russian equipment costs less upfront it's service and maintenance cost makes it way more more expensive and headache. Not to forget we have to spend further again to upgrade those equipments with local/israeli/western subsystems.



In reality if western equipment is used against a determined and similarly equipped army such as the UA army, you’d see a ton of aircraft loses and tank loses as well. Such a war has not been fought since the Yugo wars, don’t let the western policing “wars” in Iraq make you think western jets are invincible. Real wars always have massive losses.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514776283779010560

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514793140489637897
The Pentagon refuses to identify what those USVs are, but the Ukrainians have trained with them.


----------



## thetutle

Elvin said:


> Perhaps the Russians first phase was to test the UA army and their weapons?
> 
> 
> In reality if western equipment is used against a determined and similarly equipped army such as the UA army, you’d see a ton of aircraft loses and tank loses as well. Such a war has not been fought since the Yugo wars, don’t let the western policing “wars” in Iraq make you think western jets are invincible. Real wars always have massive losses.


Huh? How many western jets do you think were lost in the bombing of Serbia?


----------



## Apollon

It can be assumed all sailors on the russian flagship are dead. It were stormy conditions, ship was in fire and rolled on its side. Thats a massive loss for Putlerist Regime and a loss it cant counter anytime soon.

Slava Ukraini!

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## DF41

LeGenD said:


> Name one country where A2/AD arrangements could *NOT* be breached in times of war.
> 
> Iraq?
> Yugoslavia?
> Libya?
> Syria?
> Israel?
> Ukraine?
> Russia?
> 
> Saudi A2/AD arrangements have produced numerous intercepts and prevented much damage in the country:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interactive: The Missile War in Yemen | Missile Threat
> 
> 
> Despite major efforts to negate Houthi ballistic missile assets through airstrikes, the tempo of ballistic missile activity in Yemen continues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> missilethreat.csis.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saudi territory is huge and very costly to shield, however.
> 
> A2/AD arrangements are found to be historically ~30% effective in warfare (percentage was much lower in some countries). Saudi A2/AD arrangements have produced better results in comparison. This is in part due to superior technologies in use.
> 
> Credit should be given where due.






The world see many overlapping_ safe covered _ zones of defenses.

Yet the launching and hits were made by several missiles.

To date, records could not even find the tracks where the missiles came from , and if the installations not hit, might not even have existed.





_



_




_



_


_



_



USA still trying to blame right and left but themselves and their defense systems for that fiasco.

Telling me about so-called areas that you claimed to be invulnerable is as good as saying USA won WW2 (when it was actually USSR and CHina who did the vast job of killing the Nazis and the Japs) as excuse to USA attempt to cross Yalu river and Vietnam fiasco .


You will have the last word after this answer from me.

I been warned for trolling and I guess its because I tried to answer you.

I am almost of the mind to BLOCK you so I not be warned again , or even to see your carefully crafted logic which you craft to your total satisfaction no doubt.

I will play safe and henceforth will not answer you or even want to see your postings other than to scroll it down as fast as possible

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514661731599106050


----------



## mmr

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514775792135286787
is it news or a reality tv show lol

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## Viet

That will increase Ukrainian defense.
For the first time, the US will provide 18 155mm Howitzers and 40,000 artillery rounds.






Paratroopers from 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 82nd Airborne Division conduct a range exercise in NE Syria on Dec. 9, 2020. The 82nd Airborne Division 2nd Brigade Combat Team is deployed in support of Operation Inherent Resolve. (U.S. Army photo by Spc. Sidney Perry)









For first time, Ukraine to get US artillery in new $800M weapons package - Breaking Defense


“This new package of assistance will contain many of the highly effective weapons systems we have already provided and new capabilities tailored to the wider assault we expect Russia to launch in eastern Ukraine,” President Joe Biden said.




breakingdefense.com


----------



## F-22Raptor

The U.S. Army has released a new video giving the first look at a new and highly classified weapon. “Long Range Effect” is a loitering munition, a drone which cruises for an extended period under operator control, locating targets with onboard sensors before diving down like a missile. 








The new weapon is part of a family of munitions known as Air Launched Effects (ALE) launched from helicopters or other Army assets. The video was taken at the Experimentation Demonstration Gateway Event 2021, commonly known as Edge 21, at Dugway Proving Ground in Utah in May. The video shows a variety of new technologies at work. There are clips of a light combat vehicle launching a smaller loitering munition, ALE-Small. This is based on the Altius-600 drone, a highly capable system with a range of over 250 miles, which is also being upgraded with advanced artificial intelligence.

If ALE-Small has a range of 250 miles, how far out can a system described as Long Range reach?


Journalists at the event were shown but not allowed to take pictures of video of the new weapon and few details were released. Brig. Gen. Walter Rugen, in charge of Army aviation modernization, told Defense News in a recent interview that: “We have payloads that we want that are a little bit bigger, and so we have a form factor that is a bigger form factor.”










U.S. Army Give First Glimpse Of New Long-Range Weapon


The Army's new 'Long Range Effect' is a loitering munition, a drone which cruises for an extended period under operator control locating targets with onboard sensors before diving down like a missile with pinpoint accuracy.




www.forbes.com






Loitering munitions are playing a significant role in this war. 

The US Army tested a classified loitering munition last year that can strike targets well in excess of 400 km. The munition is pictured above. These are far more advanced than the Switchblades being used by the Ukrainians.

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## gambit

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> But then you aren't bothered by the more than 3000 Ukrainians that have surrendered yesterday. *So which one is important: An aging ship vs 3000 men who were taken as prisoner of war and over 200 wounded that were also captured by the Russian forces?*


False question.

For Russia, that 'aging' ship is an attack platform while Ukrainian POWs are a burden. So if we rephrase as which is more important in the context of *UTILITY*, then the 'aging' ship is more important. In this context, Russia lost more than gained. If Russia kill the Ukrainian POWs, then Russia incurs double jeopardy, the loss of a valuable attack platform no matter how 'aging' it maybe and the moral taint of executing POWs which is forbidden by accepted laws and norms of war.

In the end, Russia can lie/mislead the world about what happened, but the bottom line is that the loss of this attack platform, no matter how 'aging' it maybe, is a tactical tragedy, a loss of face, and a morale buster.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Just one look at the list of weapons by US, any guy with a bit of commonsense will tells you, it won't altered the course of the war and the final result. 

More of a case of US wanting to rid itself of old stock of weapons to justify their request for acquisition of newer replacement. 

An old trick that was repeated over and over again.

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## gambit

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Just one look at the list of weapons by US, any guy with a bit of commonsense will tells you,* it won't altered the course of the war and the final result.*
> 
> More of a case of US wanting to rid itself of old stock of weapons to justify their request for acquisition of newer replacement.
> 
> An old trick that was repeated over and over again.


Wrong. The course of the war was altered from being certain to uncertain. It went from being a few days to now uncertain of how long, and the longer this war go on, the more it will deviate from a Russian victory.


----------



## thetutle

mmr said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514775792135286787
> is it news or a reality tv show lol


Wow they are not taking the ship sinking very well even though people on this forum don’t agree that a ship was sunk or that a ship even existed. It’s so fun to watch the parallel universe collapsing around them

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## mmr

thetutle said:


> Wow they are not taking the ship sinking very well even though people on this forum don’t agree that a ship was sunk or that a ship even existed. It’s so fun to watch the parallel universe collapsing around them


lol true.

the anger is raw in russia..they really expected 3 days win...now bitching about nato sending "defensive arms"

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## thetutle

gambit said:


> False question.
> 
> For Russia, that 'aging' ship is an attack platform while Ukrainian POWs are a burden. So if we rephrase as which is more important in the context of *UTILITY*, then the 'aging' ship is more important. In this context, Russia lost more than gained. If Russia kill the Ukrainian POWs, then Russia incurs double jeopardy, the loss of a valuable attack platform no matter how 'aging' it maybe and the moral taint of executing POWs which is forbidden by accepted laws and norms of war.
> 
> In the end, Russia can lie/mislead the world about what happened, but the bottom line is that the loss of this attack platform, no matter how 'aging' it maybe, is a tactical tragedy, a loss of face, and a morale buster.


The ship might be ageing and crappy but it’s the best Russia has. And outside of the major NATO members it’s the best anyone has


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Viet said:


> What happens to your prediction the ruble is like gold because it pegs to gold?
> Russia central bank gave up the pegging few days ago. Not working according to plan. Russia lost 34 billion USD per month by the scheme. Forcing people to sell dollars to ruble that in turn pegging to gold, rediculous.


*Stop trolling* or talk about subject that is beyond you. 

Khmernomic just don't work. 

Go home.

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## thetutle

Viet said:


> What happens to your prediction the ruble is like gold because it pegs to gold?
> Russia central bank gave up the pegging few days ago. Not working according to plan. Russia lost 34 billion USD per month by the scheme. Forcing people to sell dollars to ruble that in turn pegging to gold, rediculous.


And forcing Russian banks to sell their gold for the worthless Ruble

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## CAPRICORN-88

One other thing: don't twists my words out of context. That is trolling.


----------



## Foinikas

Wood said:


> There you are again. Keep crying some more. I know that I have you in a monkey's trap now and you are too foolish to let go.
> 
> Putin will loose more ships. Now I hope to keep you crying here for at least a week for this one


I thought you didn't even read my messages anymore?

Truly Indians are deluded and obnoxious people.


----------



## gambit

thetutle said:


> The ship might be ageing and crappy but it’s the best Russia has. And outside of the major NATO members it’s the best anyone has


Russia was never a sea power to start.

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## CAPRICORN-88

thetutle said:


> And forcing Russian banks to sell their gold for the worthless Ruble


Kindly get an education before opining. 

Do you know how a Central Banking System works?

So you were taught that US dollar or MONEY grows on tree and can be created out of thin air.

Russia has fixed the exchange rate of 5000 ruble to 1 gram of Gold.

Anyway you won't understand what it means. 

It will be a complete waste of time.

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## Viet

thetutle said:


> And forcing Russian banks to sell their gold for the worthless Ruble


The ruble has an artificial value determined in the kremlin. The currency has no contact to outside world. Even in trades with their chinese ally the ruble is non existent.
2/3 of Russian exports are energy exports that means the ruble is backed by oil, gas. The rest is exporting wheats, foods, weapons, gold, diamonds. Once the West reduces or cuts off imports the ruble will become worthless inevitable.

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## Viet

gambit said:


> Wrong. The course of the war was altered from being certain to uncertain. It went from being a few days to now uncertain of how long, and the longer this war go on, the more it will deviate from a Russian victory.


Well, Putin wanted to crush Ukraine in a 3 day war. Now we almost pass 2 months. Ukraine says the war will continue for months, the West predicts the war will continue for years.
Ukraine will rely on a constant flow of weapons delivery.

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## CAPRICORN-88

I am still waiting for the *proof for the claim that Neptune Missiles fired by a Ukrainian unit struck and sank the Moskva.*

Anyway that is how fake news are spread. 

Yes. The Moskva sank BUT not by Ukrainian missiles as claimed. That is what I understand up to this moment. 

Not until they can prove it. 

Twisting the statements from US Pentagon and Russia Ministry of Defense don't work for us.

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## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> That will be Khmernomic. Go home and stop trolling in here.


It’s you the troller.
The ruble has no real value that’s a fact.
Russia central bank withdrew from ruble/gold peg that’s a fact.
600 foreign bands left Russia that’s a fact.
Russia returns to old Soviet days.
30y economic progress wiped out.

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## gambit

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> I am still waiting for the *proof for the claim that Neptune Missiles fired by a Ukrainian unit struck and sank the Moskva.*
> 
> Anyway that is how fake news are spread.
> 
> Yes. The Moskva sank BUT not by Ukrainian missiles as claimed. That is what I understand up to this moment.
> 
> Not until they can prove it.
> 
> Twisting the statements from US Pentagon and Russia Ministry of Defense don't work for us.


Readers,

Which is more believable?

The Moskva was struck by a Ukrainian missile, caught fire, and sank while under recovery efforts by Russia.
The Moskva mysteriously caught fire, its ammo store exploded, and the ship sank in a storm while being towed in a recovery effort by Russia.

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## khansaheeb

Foinikas said:


> No,USA didn't lose the Korean War. They saved South Korea.
> 
> They didn't lose the Vietnam war militarily,they lost it politically. In the end,it was the South Vietnamese's incompetent government and majority of their officers who lost the war. And here we have to mention that certain ARVN units fought with extreme skill,courage and patriotism to the end.
> 
> USA didn't lose the war in Afghanistan,the Afghans lost the war themselves. Because they are corrupt,incompetent and idiotic. The Americans supported a worthless government once again and even though it was failing,they kept giving money and weapons to them. That was their mistake.


They lost it because they lost it no matter what spin you put on it. General Milley admitted it himself:-
US 'lost' the 20-year war in Afghanistan: top US general"​








US 'lost' the 20-year war in Afghanistan: top US general - France 24


US 'lost' the 20-year war in Afghanistan: top US general




www.france24.com

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## CAPRICORN-88

Viet said:


> Well, Putin wanted to crush Ukraine in a 3 day war. Now we almost pass 2 months. Ukraine says the war will continue for months, the West predicts the war will last for years.


Stop the propaganda BS and go home. This is NOT your war and we don't know Putin plan.

This is 2022, the war is Ukraine and Vietnam War is over long time ago.

So underground foxhole strategy won't work today and neither will your childish provocations.

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## WotTen

French far-right presidential candidate Le Pen wants out of NATO, no weapons to Ukraine​








French far-right presidential candidate Le Pen wants out of NATO, no weapons to Ukraine


As two Nordic prime ministers met to escalate their bid for membership of the alliance, Marine Le Pen talked about closer ties with Russia.




www.smh.com.au

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## CAPRICORN-88

Viet said:


> It’s you the troller.
> The ruble has no real value that’s a fact.
> Russia central bank withdrew from ruble/gold peg that’s a fact.
> 600 foreign bands left Russia that’s a fact.
> Russia returns to old Soviet days.
> 30y economic progress wiped out.
> 
> View attachment 834563


Simply demonstrate that this Khmer Krom don't understanding what she is posting.

She thought she can simply DONG her argument and a DONG is worth more than a DING and a Ruble.

  





__





Russian Ruble - 2022 Data - 1996-2021 Historical - 2023 Forecast - Quote - Chart


The Russian ruble was at the 56 per USD level in mid-June, remaining close to the 7-year high of 54.8 touched in the end of May, as capital controls and soaring prices for Russia’s main exports continue to support the currency. While individuals are now allowed to buy foreign exchange, savings...




tradingeconomics.com

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## patero

gambit said:


> Readers,
> 
> Which is more believable?
> 
> The Moskva was struck by a Ukrainian missile, caught fire, and sank while under recovery efforts by Russia.
> The Moskva mysteriously caught fire, its ammo store exploded, and the ship sank in a storm while being towed in a recovery effort by Russia.


I'm most definitely in the first camp, and in an admission of sorts the Russian fleet in the area near Odessa have been shifted back further from the coastline.

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## CAPRICORN-88

WotTen said:


> French far-right presidential candidate Le Pen wants out of NATO, no weapons to Ukraine​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> French far-right presidential candidate Le Pen wants out of NATO, no weapons to Ukraine
> 
> 
> As two Nordic prime ministers met to escalate their bid for membership of the alliance, Marine Le Pen talked about closer ties with Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.smh.com.au


She is right if the French wished to live in peace. 

Russia is a neighbour that won't go way and dialogue and communication is the only way forward. 

EU don't need warmongers as members.

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## CAPRICORN-88

History taught us one thing, it is easy to invite the devil but it is difficult to ask it to leave. 


On 21 June 1963, France also withdrew its Atlantic and Channel fleets from NATO command. 

The rift deepened on *10 March 1966*, when General de Gaulle officially announced that *France intended to withdraw from the Alliance* and *demanded* that *all NATO bases be removed from French territor*y.

That is why France has no US military base..

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## Hack-Hook

F-22Raptor said:


> This is a huge loss for the Russian Navy.
> 
> They can’t build ships at that tonnage anymore.


on other hand a modern ship of smaller tonnage is more resilient against such attacks and have 10 time the fire power



Viet said:


> Putin still has the missile cruiser Varyag the flagship of the pacific fleet. Let’s wait. He probably thinking to deploy the ship.
> to attack Odessa he needs the cruiser there.
> Ukraine should make a plan.
> 
> 
> View attachment 834442


why he need that while he can use his strategic bomber to flatten Odessa if he want . also i doubt turkey will allow it entry into black sea



Foinikas said:


> Meanwhile in democratic Europe...
> 
> View attachment 834447


people never change


----------



## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Simply demonstrate that this Khmer Krom don't understanding what she is posting.
> 
> She thought she can simply DONG her argument and a DONG is worth more than a DING and a Ruble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Ruble - 2022 Data - 1996-2021 Historical - 2023 Forecast - Quote - Chart
> 
> 
> The Russian ruble was at the 56 per USD level in mid-June, remaining close to the 7-year high of 54.8 touched in the end of May, as capital controls and soaring prices for Russia’s main exports continue to support the currency. While individuals are now allowed to buy foreign exchange, savings...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tradingeconomics.com


Why repeatedly call me krom?
From now I call you nigger.


----------



## Hack-Hook

LeGenD said:


> Name one country where A2/AD arrangements could *NOT* be breached in times of war.
> 
> Iraq?
> Yugoslavia?
> Libya?
> Syria?
> Israel?
> Ukraine?
> Russia?
> 
> Saudi A2/AD arrangements have produced numerous intercepts and prevented much damage in the country:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interactive: The Missile War in Yemen | Missile Threat
> 
> 
> Despite major efforts to negate Houthi ballistic missile assets through airstrikes, the tempo of ballistic missile activity in Yemen continues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> missilethreat.csis.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saudi territory is huge and very costly to shield, however.
> 
> A2/AD arrangements are found to be historically ~30% effective in warfare (percentage was much lower in some countries). Saudi A2/AD arrangements have produced better results in comparison. This is in part due to superior technologies in use.
> 
> Credit should be given where due.


many of those interception are due to nature of the missiles , they had separating warhead , they hit the body and they claim a hit , while the warhead do its work.

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## Georg

nang2 said:


> Actually I feel the reverse. The West seems to have employed the strategy of shoot-first-no-question-later. First, the snake island fiasco. Lately the Russian missile with cluster bombs on civilians. The moment their claims were rebuked, they just moved on to new claims. Even Pentagon follows the same practice, claiming Russians are going to use chemical weapons without a shred of proof. They openly admitted of having no proof but claimed that they wanted to use lies to prevent Russians from actually using chemical weapons. Quite lame. Pentagon seems to have realized the problem of doing this and has been more honest lately.
> 
> On the contrary, Russia has been more reserved. It is more accurate to assess the ground progress based on the news coming from Russia.



the ammount of bullcrap writen here is amazing

NATO never claimed a chemical weapon attack... that claim only come from Ukraine figther in Mariupol, all "western" media and NATO claimed clearly they CANT confirm this claim...that they used cluster bomb is clearly visible on videos taken by civilies with their cellphones...all things Russia already had done in Sytia... including targeting hospital churches/mosque and child shelter


----------



## Hack-Hook

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> What did they hit this time?
> 
> Administration Building???
> 
> Hope Russia did not upgrade the war to the stage of decapitation as we were predicting.
> 
> If it is true then Zalensky and team better find a deeper bunker to hide himself.


hitting administration buildings at night ? what for ? they are just buildings , the people inside are important


----------



## Hack-Hook

thetutle said:


> The ship might be ageing and crappy but it’s the best Russia has. And outside of the major NATO members it’s the best anyone has


honestly Kirov class look more formidable than Slava and JAPAN and china have far more interesting ships


----------



## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> on other hand a modern ship of smaller tonnage is more resilient against such attacks and have 10 time the fire power
> 
> 
> why he need that while he can use his strategic bomber to flatten Odessa if he want . also i doubt turkey will allow it entry into black sea
> 
> 
> people never change


Just a matter of days or weeks Russia will deploy strategic bombers. Putin threatened using nuclear weapons on the very first day of the war. There is no reason not believe the Russian army will not use every means to win the war.

Destroyers are class of attack ships, Cruisers are called shield of the fleet. Without the cruiser Putin will risk the sinking of the entire Black Sea fleet.

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Destroyers are class of attack ships, Cruisers are called shield of the fleet. Without the cruiser Putin will risk the sinking of the entire Black Sea fleet.


well kirov is battle cruiser not destroyer and i was talking about type of ship .
but well when it come to black sea fleet , i guess if you put non existent Caspian see fleet aside it never was that strong , and now by what happened the protection probably fall to shore air defenses and they probably must turn the black sea into sort of nofly zone with their air force on a side note some of frigates in the area notably the one belong to Grigorovich class can provide some limited air coverage


----------



## Beast

Foinikas said:


> No,USA didn't lose the Korean War. They saved South Korea.
> 
> They didn't lose the Vietnam war militarily,they lost it politically. In the end,it was the South Vietnamese's incompetent government and majority of their officers who lost the war. And here we have to mention that certain ARVN units fought with extreme skill,courage and patriotism to the end.
> 
> USA didn't lose the war in Afghanistan,the Afghans lost the war themselves. Because they are corrupt,incompetent and idiotic. The Americans supported a worthless government once again and even though it was failing,they kept giving money and weapons to them. That was their mistake.


Is this an Indian style self comfort explanation?

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## Foinikas

Beast said:


> Is this an Indian style self comfort explanation?


Nope. It's history. And you've seen me go against American aggression here many times.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514880270947786758

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514880786528358400

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Death from the air delivered by Russian UAVs. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514879178470039554

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## CSAW

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514877591567667202

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514483608974680065


----------



## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> The U.S. Army has released a new video giving the first look at a new and highly classified weapon. “Long Range Effect” is a loitering munition, a drone which cruises for an extended period under operator control, locating targets with onboard sensors before diving down like a missile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The new weapon is part of a family of munitions known as Air Launched Effects (ALE) launched from helicopters or other Army assets. The video was taken at the Experimentation Demonstration Gateway Event 2021, commonly known as Edge 21, at Dugway Proving Ground in Utah in May. The video shows a variety of new technologies at work. There are clips of a light combat vehicle launching a smaller loitering munition, ALE-Small. This is based on the Altius-600 drone, a highly capable system with a range of over 250 miles, which is also being upgraded with advanced artificial intelligence.
> 
> If ALE-Small has a range of 250 miles, how far out can a system described as Long Range reach?
> 
> 
> Journalists at the event were shown but not allowed to take pictures of video of the new weapon and few details were released. Brig. Gen. Walter Rugen, in charge of Army aviation modernization, told Defense News in a recent interview that: “We have payloads that we want that are a little bit bigger, and so we have a form factor that is a bigger form factor.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. Army Give First Glimpse Of New Long-Range Weapon
> 
> 
> The Army's new 'Long Range Effect' is a loitering munition, a drone which cruises for an extended period under operator control locating targets with onboard sensors before diving down like a missile with pinpoint accuracy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loitering munitions are playing a significant role in this war.
> 
> The US Army tested a classified loitering munition last year that can strike targets well in excess of 400 km. The munition is pictured above. These are far more advanced than the Switchblades being used by the Ukrainians.



This war is a fantastic opportunity for the USA to test out new systems, weapons in the field against Russia to get realtime feedback on new war fighting concepts and strategies.

While they are helping Ukraine, they are learning a hell of a lot on what works and what does not and how to refine the next generation.

The switchblades and their weapons of that type will play havoc with MLRS/Mobile SAM/Radars and artillery platforms. They are smaller - easier for tactical special forces groups to infiltrate and then use them behind enemy lines.



mmr said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514775792135286787
> is it news or a reality tv show lol



The need to transform this from a "Special operation" to a "war" is an admission by Russian state controlled media that the Ukranians were responsible for the sinking of that submarine!! What else would explain that level of anger?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514883227949101064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514898166956826630

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514889994443231233

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## thetutle

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Kindly get an education before opining.
> 
> Do you know how a Central Banking System works?
> 
> So you were taught that US dollar or MONEY grows on tree and can be created out of thin air.
> 
> Russia has fixed the exchange rate of 5000 ruble to 1 gram of Gold.
> 
> Anyway you won't understand what it means.
> 
> It will be a complete waste of time.


I know enough to tell you that 5,000 Ruble per gram is equal to confiscation and if you ever want to sell me your gold for that price I’m ready to buy unlimited amounts.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514900697044893696

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514881125738496004

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514898767413227527

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## jamahir

Ali_Baba said:


> The need to transform this from a "Special operation" to a "war" is an admission by Russian state controlled media that the Ukranians were responsible for the sinking of that submarine!! What else would explain that level of anger?



Russians should have taken the war to NATO offices and key personnel in Europe the moment NATO countries started supplying anti-tank weapons and other weapons to Zelensky's mostly Nazi military which was doing crimes against Ukraine's own citizens. Zelensky must be found and tried for lies and for being a NATO puppet and for enabling criminals in his administration and military for years before the war started. Zelensky's Nazis cannot just lynch people and shoot females in the back who are just cycling by and cannot just store or fire rockets and artillery in civilian infrastructure and cannot just host foreign Nazis in civilian houses and cannot just sabotage Russia's offers for humanitarian corridors and cannot just leave civilians to starve without the Zelensky and his Nazis being punished. So, grab him and put him on trial.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514711761538228226




Ukrainian prisoners of war are being fed well in Russia. Zelensky and his minions abandoned them, and the Russians are taking a good care of them. But on the other side, your fellow Zelenskyites don't seem to understand the laws of war and the rights of prisoners. It is sad what your fellow Zelenskyites did to those Russian pows. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514803933796995074


----------



## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> well kirov is battle cruiser not destroyer and i was talking about type of ship .
> but well when it come to black sea fleet , i guess if you put non existent Caspian see fleet aside it never was that strong , and now by what happened the protection probably fall to shore air defenses and they probably must turn the black sea into sort of nofly zone with their air force on a side note some of frigates in the area notably the one belong to Grigorovich class can provide some limited air coverage


I also meant cruiser. I speculate Putin would redeploy other cruisers. Turkey should close the straits immediately. Without the Moskwa russo warships are sitting ducks. They are within range of Neptune antiship missiles.


----------



## Wood

Foinikas said:


> I thought you didn't even read my messages anymore?
> 
> Truly Indians are deluded and obnoxious people.


Yes, good that you are still crying. Putin lost his flag ship and all you can do is cry here. Cry some more


----------



## Foinikas

Banderists in 2015...


----------



## WotTen

jamahir said:


> Russians should have taken the war to NATO offices and key personnel in Europe the moment NATO countries started supplying anti-tank weapons and other weapons to Zelensky'



The failure of Russian planners to anticipate and thwart the supply of weapons into Ukraine will go down in history as one of the greatest military blunders in recent times.

It doesn't even take a military mastermind to anticipate this but the Russians seem to have been completely unprepared for this scenario.

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## Hack-Hook

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514881125738496004


the question is why it take them two month too understand they must take out those facilities, from military point of view they must have been on primary target list.

and on a side note unless they manage to stop or slow shipment from Poland to Ukraine , that don't mean so much

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## Foinikas

Wood said:


> Yes, good that you are still crying. Putin lost his flag ship and all you can do is cry here. Cry some more


You keep reinforcing the stereotype of the* retarded Indian* who is deluded and draws conclusions out of nothing.

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## Wood

Foinikas said:


> You keep reinforcing the stereotype of the* retarded Indian* who is deluded and draws conclusions out of nothing.


Yes, this is how I want to see you cry. You will continue with these hopeless cries without forever being read. Don't stop crying. Cry more


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Hack-Hook said:


> the question is why it take them two month too understand they must take out those facilities, from military point of view they must have been on primary target list.
> 
> and on a side note unless they manage to stop or slow shipment from Poland to Ukraine , that don't mean so much



I think the Russian intelligence service was infiltrated or at least were not doing their work. But many say it was Putin who tied the military's hands. We may never know why Russians have been so sloppy in their conduct of this war. Perhaps they expected easy fight and quick departure of Zelensky and his regime. Nevertheless, they should've been cluster bombing on anything that moves from Poland, and other neighboring countries to Ukraine. Air, land, and sea blockade should have been the motto.


----------



## jamahir

Georg said:


> the ammount of bullcrap writen here is amazing
> 
> NATO never claimed a chemical weapon attack... that claim only come from Ukraine figther in Mariupol, all "western" media and NATO claimed clearly they CANT confirm this claim...that they used cluster bomb is clearly visible on videos taken by civilies with their cellphones...all things Russia already had done in Sytia... including targeting hospital churches/mosque and child shelter



Please stop listening to NATO lies and disinfo. Russia is helping save Syria from destruction by NATO-created-armed-funded Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood because NATO wants regime-change in Syria and AQ and "M"B are the means, as ever. NATO tried it in Syria from 1976 onwards but Syria defeated the means - the "M"B criminals. Below is a great short speech by then president Hafiz al Assad in 1982 after defeating the "M"B :





2011 onwards Syria's war against NATO proxies is a much bigger one. Appreciate that and please stop spreading lies.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514900697044893696



Are these Ukrainian air force units from where "The Ghost of Kiev" used to take off ?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514880907173568512

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## oberschlesier

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I think the Russian intelligence service was infiltrated or at least were not doing their work. But many say it was Putin who tied the military's hands. We may never know why Russians have been so sloppy in their conduct of this war. Perhaps they expected easy fight and quick departure of Zelensky and his regime. Nevertheless, they should've been cluster bombing on anything that moves from Poland, and other neighboring countries to Ukraine. Air, land, and sea blockade should have been the motto.


Sure, good point. Why are they not attacking supply lines or executing a blokade ?


----------



## Foinikas

Wood said:


> Yes, this is how I want to see you cry. You will continue with these hopeless cries without forever being read. Don't stop crying. Cry more

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514811357178212362
These kids on the slow bus are speaking of 'erasing' Ukrainians to unite the great Slavic Kingdom. Hope they read the morning news to see what happened in the black sea 



Foinikas said:


> View attachment 834590


Yes, crawl the internet to find more. Cry more

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514766062771875851
Meltdown on Russia's state TV over the sunk ship.

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## Hack-Hook

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514766062771875851
> Meltdown on Russia's state TV over the sunk ship.


don't laugh at it , if the Russians media start to demand to act against civilian infrastructure , then in one week Russians public make such demands and i wonder what will remain of Ukraine after that .
its not a good situation at all

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Banderists in 2015...



Hey buddy, how is Vlad doing? I here the russian ship was baptized yesterday in black sea for our future orthodox super empire under Putlers supreme rule

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## Ali_Baba

*Russia's 'broken arrow': Fears that nuclear missiles sank with Putin's flagship Moskva *









Ukraine war: Fears Moskva was carrying nuclear weapons when it sank


The Moskva - a 600ft Russian warship that sank yesterday in the Black Sea - could have been carrying two nuclear warheads when it went down, experts and analysts have warned today.




www.dailymail.co.uk






questions remain over the fate of Moskva's 510-strong crew, most of whom are unaccounted for


----------



## Wood

Hack-Hook said:


> don't laugh at it , if the Russians media start to demand to act against civilian infrastructure , then in one week Russians public make such demands and i wonder what will remain of Ukraine after that .
> its not a good situation at all


Russian media have been demanding for the destruction of Ukraine for a month now. I've been laughing at it every day.

Only thing Russia has not tried at this point to destroy civilian infrastructure is nuke and ballistic missiles. It is not like Russians have been soft. Just that it is all they are capable of.

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## lightning F57

The Russians have so far shown lack of organisation, clear objectives, lack of care and allot of incompetence. To lose a flagship is a big humiliation. Retailiating and hitting civilian sites will go and confirm that.

Putin big time underestimated the response to invading Ukraine. I thought the Russians were smarter than this. They seemed to be check mated on this chess board by Nato.


----------



## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I think the Russian intelligence service was infiltrated or at least were not doing their work. But many say it was Putin who tied the military's hands. We may never know why Russians have been so sloppy in their conduct of this war. Perhaps they expected easy fight and quick departure of Zelensky and his regime. Nevertheless, they should've been cluster bombing on anything that moves from Poland, and other neighboring countries to Ukraine. Air, land, and sea blockade should have been the motto.


Putin is victim of his own propaganda. He lives in a echo chamber. For instance he believes Belarus will join the war. He believes Belarus would blockade western weapons delivery via Poland.

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## Wood

Apollon said:


> Hey buddy, how is Vlad doing? I here the russian ship was baptized yesterday in black sea for our future orthodox super empire under Putlers supreme rule


The poster ran away for a while after crying. Hope he will come back to cry for Vlad soon


----------



## Hack-Hook

Wood said:


> Russian media have been demanding for the destruction of Ukraine for a month now. I've been laughing at it every day.
> 
> Only thing Russia has not tried at this point to destroy civilian infrastructure is nuke and ballistic missiles. It is not like Russians have been soft. Just that it is all they are capable of.


they nearly didn't touch electricity grid , the transportation network is intact , gas and energy network is fine , they didn't attacked Ukrainian political centers, in short there are many targets they can choose.
their strategic bombers didn't do any meaningful bombing



lightning F57 said:


> The Russians have so far shown lack of organisation, clear objectives, lack of care and allot of incompetence. To lose a flagship is a big humiliation. Retailiating and hitting civilian sites will go and confirm that.
> 
> Putin big time underestimated the response to invading Ukraine. I thought the Russians were smarter than this. They seemed to be check mated on this chess board by Nato.


if Russia destroy transportation network of Ukraine they can claim they attacked military object as its used to transport weapon into Ukraine.

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## Wood

Hack-Hook said:


> they nearly didn't touch electricity grid , the transportation network is intact , gas and energy network is fine , they didn't attacked Ukrainian political centers, in short there are many targets they can choose.
> their strategic bombers didn't do any meaningful bombing


Yes, why have they not? Perhaps they are not able to. Their Airforce is not even able to secure air supremacy in the war. I don't want to make the assumption that Russians are an invincible force anymore.

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## Ali_Baba

Hack-Hook said:


> they nearly didn't touch electricity grid , the transportation network is intact , gas and energy network is fine , they didn't attacked Ukrainian political centers, in short there are many targets they can choose.
> their strategic bombers didn't do any meaningful bombing
> 
> 
> if Russia destroy transportation network of Ukraine they can claim they attacked military object as its used to transport weapon into Ukraine.



It is a war crime to attack civilian infrastructure ....

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514840372836454405
Yee do it 

this one from my little city and there are hundreds of those around in poland






Time to get hammers ready


----------



## Foinikas

Wood said:


> Cry more


Buddy,you've got issues.

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## Hack-Hook

Ali_Baba said:


> It is a war crime to attack civilian infrastructure ....


not if they used for military purpose , isn't that USA, Nato and Israel always claim when they attack civilian infrastructure



Wood said:


> Yes, why have they not? Perhaps they are not able to. Their Airforce is not even able to secure air supremacy in the war. I don't want to make the assumption that Russians are an invincible force anymore.


if you think they cant destroy bridge , and control center for Ukrainian transportation system think twice , if you think they cant hit any Ukrainian train think twice , if you think they cant hit any distribution and control center for Ukrainian power and energy grid please think twice . at the end if you think they cant flatten Odessa like what happened in Mariupol again think twice

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## Wood

Hack-Hook said:


> you think they cant destroy bridge , and control center for Ukrainian transportation system think twice , if you think they cant hit any Ukrainian train think twice , if you think they cant hit any distribution and control center for Ukrainian power and energy grid please think twice . at the end if you think they cant flatten Odessa like what happened in Mariupol again think twice


Russians don't have enough ammo and man power to repeat Mariupol everywhere. I don't have to think twice 😃


----------



## Apollon

Hack-Hook said:


> not if they used for military purpose , isn't that USA, Nato and Israel always claim when they attack civilian infrastructure
> 
> 
> if you think they cant destroy bridge , and control center for Ukrainian transportation system think twice , if you think they cant hit any Ukrainian train think twice , if you think they cant hit any distribution and control center for Ukrainian power and energy grid please think twice . at the end if you think they cant flatten Odessa like what happened in Mariupol again think twice



They cant flatten Odessa because they cant get equipment in range.

You talk like Russia is a competent military power. They are not. Their tech is rotten, rockets have a 60% fail rate. Their flagship was yesterday sunk by Ukraine. When has something like that happened since 1945?

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## Ali_Baba

Odessa is safe now - there is no way Russian can launch a sea invasion of Odessa or a land invasion. The sinking of the ship has had a very significant impact on the ability of the Russian Navy to operate and for it to even attempt "rethink" of a sea-based invasion of Odessa.

Of course - we will have additional sea based deterrents that the UK will deliver soon(if not already?! ).

The need of the hour is tanks, lots of new artillery, MLRS and UAVs ( lots and lots of UAV's ).

I am interested to see how the Switchblades get on!

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## Ali_Baba

Russia strikes Kyiv factory 'that made missile used to sink flagship Moskva'​








Russian air strike hits Ukrainian missile factory in Kyiv


The Kremlin said it hit the 'Vizar' plant which it claims manufactures anti-ship missiles after Ukraine claimed it had used a Neptune anti-ship missile to sink Russia's naval flagship the Moskva.




www.dailymail.co.uk





Very salty response by Russia to the sinking of the flagship of the black sea fleet by Ukraine.

_So Russia is caught in its web of lies again...._

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## Hassan Al-Somal

With this huge number of MLRSs going to to Eastern Ukraine, Russia seems to be determined to go all the way and liberate the DNR and LNR republics.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514921718564933639

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## mmr

Hack-Hook said:


> not if they used for military purpose , isn't that USA, Nato and Israel always claim when they attack civilian infrastructure
> 
> 
> if you think they cant destroy bridge , and control center for Ukrainian transportation system think twice , if you think they cant hit any Ukrainian train think twice , if you think they cant hit any distribution and control center for Ukrainian power and energy grid please think twice . at the end if you think they cant flatten Odessa like what happened in Mariupol again think twice


Lol take a chill pill.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Keep eye on this general and what he does. I think you'll hear more sweat cries coming from Zelensky and his minions. Oh wait, he is not even in Ukraine; he's been reported to be hiding in Poland.

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## Ali_Baba

The sinking of the Moskva: what do we know, and why does it matter?​








The sinking of the Moskva: what do we know, and why does it matter?


Russia has acknowledged the ship has sunk but will not say it was hit by a Ukrainian missile




www.theguardian.com





"_Slava class ships like the Moskva were designed to be equipped with with S-300F Fort long-range air defence system, a naval version of the S300, which has some utility against ballistic missiles._"

Another instance of why no one should fear the S400 or S300 ... a couple of UAVs and 2 missile's were enough to take out the sea version of the S300.


----------



## mmr

Hack-Hook said:


> don't laugh at it , if the Russians media start to demand to act against civilian infrastructure , then in one week Russians public make such demands and i wonder what will remain of Ukraine after that .
> its not a good situation at all


So afraid lol


----------



## Muhammed45

mmr said:


> So afraid lol


Of course you are not afraid. You just don't give a hoot about Ukrainian citizens suffering from this war.

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## mmr

Viet said:


> It’s you the troller.
> The ruble has no real value that’s a fact.
> Russia central bank withdrew from ruble/gold peg that’s a fact.
> 600 foreign bands left Russia that’s a fact.
> Russia returns to old Soviet days.
> 30y economic progress wiped out.
> 
> View attachment 834563


Report this dude. He keep calling you name.


----------



## J dud

Hack-Hook said:


> not if they used for military purpose , isn't that USA, Nato and Israel always claim when they attack civilian infrastructure
> 
> 
> if you think they cant destroy bridge , and control center for Ukrainian transportation system think twice , if you think they cant hit any Ukrainian train think twice , if you think they cant hit any distribution and control center for Ukrainian power and energy grid please think twice . at the end if you think they cant flatten Odessa like what happened in Mariupol again think twice


To do this russian air force will need to do massive tactical bombing campaigns similar to USAF in gulf war / iraq war. This is not an easy task. You need a large amount SEAD/ DEAD efforts which russians seem to be unable to do. Ukrainian air defences are still up and running which will cause a lot problems. 

Also we see a lack of usage of smart / precision munition by RUAF . So for pinpoint strikes with dumb bombs, russian aircrafs will need fly at low altitude. This increases the chance of aircrafts getting shot down by manpads and short range mobile SAMs. We are already seeing modern russian jets getting shotdown due to this. 


Russian forces also can go for massive high altitude bombing campaigns ww2 style. But there is still risk of Ukrainian long range SAMs . It will be very high risk and require a lot of resources. 

I dont think RUAF has these capabilities available to them. Where Russians excel is their long range missile forces. And Russians are using their missile forces to strike deep inside ukraine. 

This is my analysis based on my limited knowledge.


----------



## mmr

Muhammed45 said:


> Of course you are not afraid. You just don't give a hoot about Ukrainian citizens suffering from this war.


No need to cry crocodile tear for Ukrainian. We can see how Iranians keep bringing nuke this that by Russia to Europe.


----------



## J dud

I think China is much stronger in terms of conventional forces than russia. They have much better airforce for this type of conflict.


----------



## Apollon

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Keep eye on this general and what he does. I think you'll hear more sweat cries coming from Zelensky and his minions. Oh wait, he is not even in Ukraine; he's been reported to be hiding in Poland.



Maybe he becomes Nr. 8 on the hitlist. 

I like all that worthless metall he wears on his chest. Such individuals are usually mocked as christmas tree generals.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514713341712912389

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## bobo6661

Apollon said:


> Maybe he becomes Nr. 8 on the hitlist.
> 
> I like all that worthless metall he wears on his chest. Such individuals are usually mocked as christmas tree generals.


Nah hes next to get arested after he fails

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514944899606630402
@Apollon

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## jamahir

Ali_Baba said:


> It is a war crime to attack civilian infrastructure ....











Foinikas said:


> Buddy,you've got issues.



@Wood's issue is that he is a wooden-headed person hence his mindless, snarky, hyena-laugh posts.



mmr said:


> Lol take a chill pill.



No, you take it.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514928170327326724
@Apollon

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## mmr

Ali_Baba said:


> Russia strikes Kyiv factory 'that made missile used to sink flagship Moskva'​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian air strike hits Ukrainian missile factory in Kyiv
> 
> 
> The Kremlin said it hit the 'Vizar' plant which it claims manufactures anti-ship missiles after Ukraine claimed it had used a Neptune anti-ship missile to sink Russia's naval flagship the Moskva.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very salty response by Russia to the sinking of the flagship of the black sea fleet by Ukraine.
> 
> _So Russia is caught in its web of lies again...._


Pathetic Russians will not admit Ukraine country without navy sunk there flagship navy asset lol

Instead they keep up coming with hillarious stories...it sunk it self...because our dumb navy man got drunk and set it on fire ha ha

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## thetutle

Hack-Hook said:


> the question is why it take them two month too understand they must take out those facilities, from military point of view they must have been on primary target list.


They probably thought it would be all theirs in 2 or 3 days. No point in bombing something that you think will belong to you very soon. Now they are figuring out that they wont control all of Ukraine and are burning the house down.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> We may never know why Russians have been so sloppy in their conduct of this war.


We already know, but you may not figure it out. 


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Nevertheless, they should've been cluster bombing on anything that moves from Poland, and other neighboring countries to Ukraine. Air, land, and sea blockade should have been the motto.


They can try that. See how it goes for them.


----------



## thetutle

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514811357178212362
> These kids on the slow bus are speaking of 'erasing' Ukrainians to unite the great Slavic Kingdom. Hope they read the morning news to see what happened in the black sea
> 
> 
> Yes, crawl the internet to find more. Cry more


This is genocidal talk if he is saying noone can be Ukrainian, but he is kind of saying noone should be forcing Russians to be ukranians. Its not really clear what he's saying. probably on purpose.


----------



## Type59

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514840372836454405
> Yee do it
> 
> this one from my little city and there are hundreds of those around in poland
> 
> View attachment 834592
> 
> Time to get hammers ready


Seems like Isis thing to do. Smash up statues. It just to show people of this planet have alot in common.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514891125793951746

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514925876240080896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514927847273603073

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## thetutle

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514840372836454405
> Yee do it
> 
> this one from my little city and there are hundreds of those around in poland
> 
> View attachment 834592
> 
> Time to get hammers ready


You still have red army soldiers buried in Poland?


----------



## Hydration

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514713341712912389


oh well exposed


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514922340265639938




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514802216812498944

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## thetutle

J dud said:


> I think China is much stronger in terms of conventional forces than russia. They have much better airforce for this type of conflict.


Yes it sounds like it. China is definitely number 2 military in the world now. And will probably continue to be until Japan starts rearming. If the Americans ever let Japan rearm. 

China will probably keep its number 2 spot until it decides to invade Taiwan. Seeing what's happening in Ukraine, I would suggest attacking Taiwan will not be a good idea. If Taiwan is able to do what Ukraine is doing, it would be a national humiliation, and china is not fond of humiliations after 2 centuries of it. Best not to make it 3 centuries.

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## bobo6661

thetutle said:


> You still have red army soldiers buried in Poland?


Yee many

Of this number, 718 are burial grounds of Red Army soldiers, who had fallen and died in 1941–1945. The total number of those buried is about 1.3 million persons. Of this number, around 800 thousand are prisoners-of-war who died in German camps, and over 500 thousand are soldiers who died fighting the Germans in 1944–1945 within Poland’s current borders.



https://poland.pl/history/historical-events/russian-and-soviet-graves-polish-soil/


----------



## ahtan_china

ukraine is really stupid

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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514713341712912389


They better hope he is not CIA. If they've killed him and he is in the CIA, these guys are a finished.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514967277137022977

This is genocide talk


----------



## Apollon

bobo6661 said:


> Nah hes next to get arested after he fails



Guess he had to explain Vlad why their flagrust bucket went on special subnautical mission


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514633783131217926


----------



## Apollon

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514928170327326724
> @Apollon


 Awesome. More russian trash to be blown up.

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## thetutle

bobo6661 said:


> Yee many
> 
> Of this number, 718 are burial grounds of Red Army soldiers, who had fallen and died in 1941–1945. The total number of those buried is about 1.3 million persons. Of this number, around 800 thousand are prisoners-of-war who died in German camps, and over 500 thousand are soldiers who died fighting the Germans in 1944–1945 within Poland’s current borders.
> 
> 
> 
> https://poland.pl/history/historical-events/russian-and-soviet-graves-polish-soil/


That is a serious number of people buried. wow. Nevertheless I would send them back to their homeland and these burial grounds be put to more productive uses. Like bowling alleys and wearhouses and parks


----------



## bobo6661

thetutle said:


> That is a serious number of people buried. wow. Nevertheless I would send them back to their homeland and these burial grounds be put to more productive uses. Like bowling alleys and wearhouses and parks


Guess we will do it if they touch Katyn,


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514788454470619138
Massive dose of copium needed for these loosers

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## mmr

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514788454470619138
> Massive dose of copium needed for these loosers


😂

Tucker and nigel moron seriously lmao 

Pathetic Russians ha ha

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514922340265639938
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514802216812498944



The Russians cannot handle Ukraine with the "smaller" weapons that NATO is giving them - how can they handle the big big weapons that NATO has?

An empty diplomatic letter that only shows the weakness of the Russians right now.

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## Mrc

Ali_Baba said:


> Russia strikes Kyiv factory 'that made missile used to sink flagship Moskva'​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian air strike hits Ukrainian missile factory in Kyiv
> 
> 
> The Kremlin said it hit the 'Vizar' plant which it claims manufactures anti-ship missiles after Ukraine claimed it had used a Neptune anti-ship missile to sink Russia's naval flagship the Moskva.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very salty response by Russia to the sinking of the flagship of the black sea fleet by Ukraine.
> 
> _So Russia is caught in its web of lies again...._






It's claimed to be naptune but most likely a smuggled in western system was used


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514965486437650435

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## Wood

Ali_Baba said:


> The Russians cannot handle Ukraine with the "smaller" weapons that NATO is giving them - how can they handle the big the big weapons that NATO has?
> 
> An empty diplomatic letter that shows the weakness of the Russians right now.


Russian media keeps prattling the narrative that they are fighting NATO


----------



## thetutle

At 7:00 minutes. The Moskva cruiser. Used to provide air defence against Turkey when turkey shot down a Russian fighter. Its basically the best the Russians have. Or better said "had".

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## bobo6661

Wood said:


> Russian media keeps prattling the narrative that they are fighting NATO


this remands me this one

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## Beny Karachun

jhungary said:


> *Why Zelenskyy still able to broadcast his speech/meet virtually to Western Leader?*
> 
> I mean, look at his video, he did US Congress this morning, Canadian Parliament 2 days ago, British Parliament earlier this week, and EU and NATO last week. I am not saying Russia should be able to assassinate him (that would actually be bad for Russia as this will make him a martyr) But Russia should have put pressure on him, and put him on the move, they can also jam their communication, taking out internet or TV infrastructure.


Because while you might think jamming/cyberattacks are easy, they're not. 

Russian electronic warfare/hacking capabilities are as inflated as its military capabilities, and Ukraine is receiving global support from countries that are arguably better in those same fields.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514976977370984471

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514977310583230475


----------



## Viet

Interesting

There is still countries that operate Mig21s.
Romania phases out all russo MiGs, opting for F16 as stopgap then later transitioning to F35s.
That will strengthen Nato southern flank.

Russo aggression changes everything.









Romania suspends military MIG-21 flights, to speed up F-16 purchase


NATO member Romania has grounded its remaining fleet of military MiG 21 LanceR jets as of Friday given their "considerably high accident rate", and will speed up a planned purchase of second-hand F-16s from Norway, the defence ministry said. The move was unrelated to Russia's invasion of...




www.yahoo.com











A MIG-21 Lancer belonging to Romania's Air Force is pushed back into a hangar during bilateral one-week training exercises in Transylvania


----------



## Hack-Hook

Wood said:


> Russians don't have enough ammo and man power to repeat Mariupol everywhere. I don't have to think twice 😃


don't take much several TOS will do the trick

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> He's one of the millions that give India a bad name.



Bad news for you. Russian TASS news agency says that a reliquia of the cross of jesus was on board of the russian rust bucket which was sunk by Ukraine yesterday. 



https://tass.com/society/1123855?utm_source=zeit.de&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zeit.de&utm_referrer=zeit.de



How does that feel for you? 

The relic is a wood chip only several millimeters long embedded into a 19th century metal cross. 


You see now that god does not support Putins crimes. A relic lost...what else sign you need?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514941871830835200


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Bad news for you. Russian TASS news agency says that a reliquia of the cross of jesus was on board of the russian rust bucket which was sunk by Ukraine yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> https://tass.com/society/1123855?utm_source=zeit.de&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zeit.de&utm_referrer=zeit.de
> 
> 
> 
> How does that feel for you?
> 
> The relic is a wood chip only several millimeters long embedded into a 19th century metal cross.
> 
> 
> You see now that god does not support Putins crimes. A relic lost...what else sign you need?


I thought you didn't believe in God.

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## Wood

Hack-Hook said:


> don't take much several TOS will do the trick


You have more confidence in Russian capabilities that Putin himself 



Foinikas said:


> He's one of the millions that give India a bad name.


You should cry more. Don't stop and run away. Cry more for Putin

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> I thought you didn't believe in God.



I dont believe in a corrupted church. I never said i dont believe in a god.

A relic lost. What does this tell you?


----------



## Hack-Hook

Apollon said:


> They cant flatten Odessa because they cant get equipment in range.
> 
> You talk like Russia is a competent military power. They are not. Their tech is rotten, rockets have a 60% fail rate. Their flagship was yesterday sunk by Ukraine. When has something like that happened since 1945?


one thing they didn't use is their strategic bombers and equip them with KAB-1500s(The fireball cover 150m and have a 500m kill zone) or KAB-500KR or they can drop FOAB 

they can equip their airplanes with S-13 and S-8 rocket and do a run over Ukraine road networks. each of those rockets can destroy 20sqm of a runway and they are like this








thats why i say , those programs are dangerous and made Russians people ready for such move or better say make them demand such moves



mmr said:


> Lol take a chill pill.


there is no danger against me so I don't need to take a chill pill , the program is to make Russians people ready for some not so elegant move

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## Apollon

Hack-Hook said:


> one thing they didn't use is their strategic bombers and equip them with KAB-1500s(The fireball cover 150m and have a 500m kill zone) or KAB-500KR or they can drop FOAB
> 
> they can equip their airplanes with S-13 and S-8 rocket and do a run over Ukraine road networks. each of those rockets can destroy 20sqm of a runway and they are like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thats why i say , those programs are dangerous and made Russians people ready for such move or better say make them demand such moves



Sure and Ukraine can send nuclear material to moscow, making the place uninhabitable for thousands of years. You dont need a nuke to destroy a city. Uranium dust is enough. 

At moment its important to give russia incredible high losses. Ukraine needs a victory in war to be save from russia. This war cant end on negotiations table. And so far it runs good for Ukraine. They now truely get independence from hundreds of years russian agression


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514924058609168384

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## sammuel

thetutle said:


> Wow they are not taking the ship sinking very well even though people on this forum don’t agree that a ship was sunk or that a ship even existed. It’s so fun to watch the parallel universe collapsing around them





CAPRICORN-88 said:


> I am still waiting for the *proof for the claim that Neptune Missiles fired by a Ukrainian unit struck and sank the Moskva.*
> 
> 
> Yes. The Moskva sank BUT not by Ukrainian missiles as claimed. That is what I understand up to this moment.



It was a diversion !


~


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514924058609168384


This is a colossal loss of true. No wonder Russian state media is in a meltdown. The 'limited military operation' may soon sink Russia itself

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514988088589787139

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514998555722846215


----------



## Hack-Hook

J dud said:


> To do this russian air force will need to do massive tactical bombing campaigns similar to USAF in gulf war / iraq war. This is not an easy task. You need a large amount SEAD/ DEAD efforts which russians seem to be unable to do. Ukrainian air defences are still up and running which will cause a lot problems.


Ukraine air defense is only active when they hug the ground , if Russia use strategic bombers and like Mariupol don't care if the city get flatten Ukraine air defense is nonexistent , its just some manpad and some short range missiles



J dud said:


> Also we see a lack of usage of smart / precision munition by RUAF . So for pinpoint strikes with dumb bombs, russian aircrafs will need fly at low altitude. This increases the chance of aircrafts getting shot down by manpads and short range mobile SAMs. We are already seeing modern russian jets getting shotdown due to this.


as I said I don't care if Russia do precision bombing , I'm afraid Russian media are preparing Russians for weapons that don't need to be precise to be effective 


J dud said:


> Russian forces also can go for massive high altitude bombing campaigns ww2 style. But there is still risk of Ukrainian long range SAMs . It will be very high risk and require a lot of resources.


there is no such SAM there at least I have seen non in action


mmr said:


> No need to cry crocodile tear for Ukrainian. We can see how Iranians keep bringing nuke this that by Russia to Europe.


Iranian don't post twitter photo of Russia hit this , Ukraine hit that , we didn't even disputed any of those news you guys posted , we just did made comment on the political situation there and what these moves can end up with . so please come out of your prejudiced mindset against Iranian please , if you have something against what we say bring it on after all forums are made for discussing different ideas .


thetutle said:


> They probably thought it would be all theirs in 2 or 3 days. No point in bombing something that you think will belong to you very soon. Now they are figuring out that they wont control all of Ukraine and are burning the house down.


honestly , I can't understand Russians mindset in this war, if i wanted to do it , i'd have made a different sort of warfare


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514998742667116546

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## oberschlesier

sammuel said:


> It was a diversion !
> 
> 
> ~


Probably just typical russian mess. It blew up by accident, e,g, sailors smoking next to a missile and the Neptun story is just to safe face.

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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514920402513973250

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## Hack-Hook

Wood said:


> Russian media keeps prattling the narrative that they are fighting NATO


well somebody said we can fight Israel , but cant fight USA .
guess who ?


----------



## Wood

Hack-Hook said:


> well somebody said we can fight Israel , but cant fight USA .
> guess who ?


Don't know. Also, don't care  

Let's keep this thread and the current conflict between Ukraine and Russia


----------



## Hack-Hook

Wood said:


> You have more confidence in Russian capabilities that Putin himself


I have total confidence in human degeneracy and lack of morality

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515001294586789891

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515001663765073928

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## thetutle

I never thought I'd see these two agreeing on anything. 

It's incredible the amount of jews that support Ukraine, Sean penn is half jewish (from Lithuania). 

Its a bit of a surprise, perhaps a pleasant surprise that they are on the right side of history once or twice. They also helped a great deal in defeating Armenia last year. 

I would have thought with so many coming from Russia that many would take Russia's side. 

Not that it makes any difference whose side they are on, but I just find it interesting. 

Anyway, after watching this video, I am convinced that America is going all in to ensure a ukranian victory. There is total support on all political sides for Ukraine. Its stronger than trump. there is noone that could shake this American support for Ukraine. And thats very bad news for russia.

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## Hack-Hook

Apollon said:


> Sure and Ukraine can send nuclear material to moscow, making the place uninhabitable for thousands of years. You dont need a nuke to destroy a city. Uranium dust is enough.
> 
> At moment its important to give russia incredible high losses. Ukraine needs a victory in war to be save from russia. This war cant end on negotiations table. And so far it runs good for Ukraine. They now truely get independence from hundreds of years russian agression


Ukraine in its short sightedness disarmed himself , they have nothing to send those to Moscow at best some border villages 
by the way , this war only can be ended on negotiation table otherwise welcome Yemen version 2 , wonder is USA willing to sell its wheat to the world instead of dumping it in ocean to prevent a world wide food shortage or prefer the let the wheat price skyrocket and get the benefit

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## F-22Raptor

thetutle said:


> I never thought I'd see these two agreeing on anything.
> 
> It's incredible the amount of jews that support Ukraine, Sean penn is half jewish (from Lithuania).
> 
> Its a bit of a surprise, perhaps a pleasant surprise that they are on the right side of history once or twice. They also helped a great deal in defeating Armenia last year.
> 
> I would have thought with so many coming from Russia that many would take Russia's side.
> 
> Not that it makes any difference whose side they are on, but I just find it interesting.
> 
> Anyway, after watching this video, I am convinced that America is going all in to ensure a ukranian victory. There is total support on all political sides for Ukraine. Its stronger than trump. there is noone that could shake this American support for Ukraine. And thats very bad news for russia.




The US will dedicate the resources to completely wreck the Russian military to the point where it will take several decades for Russia to recover.

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## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514962208647696389
Hmmm sound familiar  Give this man a beer he speaks like a real Fascist he will get a medal fo shure


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515005338608705540


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515004052630867978

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## thetutle

Hack-Hook said:


> honestly , I can't understand Russians mindset in this war, if i wanted to do it , i'd have made a different sort of warfare


Its hard to understand unless you know Russia and communism. They gre up being lied to and the whole system worked on lies. You dont advance unless you lie and the only way things will function is with lies. Unfortunately, this leads to the creation of a parallel universe which we can see they are all living in. 

Its like Russians opened the window on their lies and for 30 years they could see the truth. Then they realised the truth was terrible and closed the curtains again and have again decided to live in a world fo lies. 

the truth is that the Russians have a terrible military, very limited capabilities, dont believe in anything and are a corrupt and misguided society. As a consequence this is the only type of campaign they can fight. 

They believed their own lies. 

The bigger question for me is why were they a superpower in the first place. Why were they allowed to conquer half of europe after WW2. Sounds like Western Europeans just didnt care about Eastern Europe in 1945. Had the USSR been death wth in 1950 we would not have had all these problems.



bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514962208647696389
> Hmmm sound familiar  Give this man a beer he speaks like a real Fascist he will get a medal fo shure


White skin, Slavic soil? lol. Its good that some of the Russian fanboys hear this. Good luck to the Chechens dying for this "white slavic soil".

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514922340265639938
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514802216812498944




I think you and others misunderstood the message that the Russians were sending in that formal diplomatic note. The details are in that article of what the Russian will do. Here is what is stated in that article:

"*They have targeted supply depots in Ukraine itself, where some of these supplies have been stored,” said George Beebe, former director of Russia analysis at the CIA and Russia adviser to former vice president Dick Cheney. ' The real question is do they go beyond attempting to target [the weapons] on Ukrainian territory, try to hit the supply convoys themselves and perhaps the NATO countries on the Ukrainian periphery” that serve as transfer points for the U.S. supplies.
If Russian forces stumble in the next phase of the war as they did in the first, 'then I think the chances that Russia targets NATO supplies on NATO territory go up considerably,” Beebe said. ' There has been an assumption on the part of a lot of us in the West that we could supply the Ukrainians really without limits and not bear significant risk of retaliation from Russia,” he said. “I think the Russians want to send a message here that that’s not true.*' "

Russia has set their next targets: Western arms supplies to Ukraine. That is what that diplomatic means. It is a new escalation.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514964127093035011

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## J dud

925boy said:


> but Russia is richer in actual war experience and theory. Also, Russia is probably more advanced, slightly too, in the military nuclear field.




True but ukraine is also experienced in war since 2014 . Also the have experience with russian equipment. So they are able to exploit weakness in some ways . 

Also russia is not just fighting ukraine. They are in a fight with geopolitical oppositions. And this opposition's goal is different, they want to maximise the damage to russia. Putin should try to get out of this war, it doesnt win him anything.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515007471491981316

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

thetutle said:


> Its hard to understand unless you know Russia and communism. They gre up being lied to and the whole system worked on lies. You dont advance unless you lie and the only way things will function is with lies. Unfortunately, this leads to the creation of a parallel universe which we can see they are all living in.
> 
> Its like Russians opened the window on their lies and for 30 years they could see the truth. Then they realised the truth was terrible and closed the curtains again and have again decided to live in a world fo lies.
> 
> the truth is that the Russians have a terrible military, very limited capabilities, dont believe in anything and are a corrupt and misguided society. As a consequence this is the only type of campaign they can fight.
> 
> They believed their own lies.
> 
> The bigger question for me is why were they a superpower in the first place. Why were they allowed to conquer half of europe after WW2. Sounds like Western Europeans just didnt care about Eastern Europe in 1945. Had the USSR been death wth in 1950 we would not have had all these problems.
> 
> 
> White skin, Slavic soil? lol. Its good that some of the Russian fanboys hear this. Good luck to the Chechens dying for this "white slavic soil".


It’s always the political elites that either bring the country to prosper or feed them with propaganda and lies to sastify own ergo. Sri Lanka is a bad example how bad politics destroys own country. Russia economy will end up in the trash bin.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514994993500463113

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## J dud

Hack-Hook said:


> honestly , I can't understand Russians mindset in this war, if i wanted to do it , i'd have made a different sort of warfare


 
Russia made a big strategic blunder entering into this war. This is unwinnable. 

They might be able to size some territory but its not worth the huge losses.



thetutle said:


> Yes it sounds like it. China is definitely number 2 military in the world now. And will probably continue to be until Japan starts rearming. If the Americans ever let Japan rearm.



Russian have massively underestimated ukraine and now have fallen into a trap. West will use this war to contain Russian. This helps them on a strategic level. 

I just hope peace prevails in the end.

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## mmr

Hack-Hook said:


> Ukraine in its short sightedness disarmed himself , they have nothing to send those to Moscow at best some border villages
> by the way , this war only can be ended on negotiation table otherwise welcome Yemen version 2 , wonder is USA willing to sell its wheat to the world instead of dumping it in ocean to prevent a world wide food shortage or prefer the let the wheat price skyrocket and get the benefit


Yemen didnt got help from anyone. 

If Russia continue this war they will simply go bankrupt. 

Countries supporting Ukraine have combined gdp of 60 trillion dollars. Good luck with the proxy war.

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## oberschlesier

mmr said:


> Yemen didnt got help from anyone.
> 
> If Russia continue this war they will simply go bankrupt.
> 
> Countries supporting Ukraine have combined gdp of 60 trillion dollars. Good luck with the proxy war.


Money win wars.
Russia is very depend on Europe and well, every pipe has two ends

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## Ali_Baba

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514964127093035011



Where is the proof that an S400 shot down a helicopter? If it was over Russia - then they can show the proof ??????


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514994788365475846


----------



## Apollon

Hack-Hook said:


> Ukraine in its short sightedness disarmed himself , they have nothing to send those to Moscow at best some border villages
> by the way , this war only can be ended on negotiation table otherwise welcome Yemen version 2 , wonder is USA willing to sell its wheat to the world instead of dumping it in ocean to prevent a world wide food shortage or prefer the let the wheat price skyrocket and get the benefit



You can send it via car to moscow quite easily


----------



## Viet

Reports from the West predict the Donbas battle is about to begin in 4 days. Russia amassing 60 battalions plus 20 battalions in reserves. In total 80 battalions. So about 80,000 men with estimated 800 tanks, 3,000 infantry verhicles.

That will be a bloodbath.

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## Ali_Baba

Captain of Russian flagship Moskva dead in attack​








Putin loss as captain of Russian flagship Moskva dead in attack


VLADIMIR Putin has suffered yet another devastating loss after Ukraine claimed the captain of the doomed Moskva missile cruiser was killed during the strike in the Black Sea.




www.express.co.uk





*Admiral Igor Osipov - the commander of Russia's Black Sea fleet has been arrested*









Ukraine war: Fears Moskva was carrying nuclear weapons when it sank


The Moskva - a 600ft Russian warship that sank yesterday in the Black Sea - could have been carrying two nuclear warheads when it went down, experts and analysts have warned today.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## Ali_Baba

Trolling continues : 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514877421647970309

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515012940210003974

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## LeGenD

Moderation alert:

1. Do not subject each other to personal attacks.

2. Do not edit quote of other members in your responses.

3. Do not post contents which have no value to this thread.

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## jamal18

A long serious discussion on the global view of what is happening.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515029173651361796

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## Apollon

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515029173651361796



Since 5 weeks we hear how Russia tries to conquer a ... factory. Doesnt get any more pathetic than this.

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## oberschlesier

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515029173651361796


What is the next step ? using TU-160 to bomb a tent camp with "FOREIGN MERCENARIES" ?

The Russian army is not fighting a war it was preparing too.

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## FuturePAF

Hopefully the global food crisis may not be as bad as predicted, thanks to the brave farmers of Ukraine.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514830674875887619


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515014031735934980


----------



## Viet

Finally

The pressure on Olaf Scholz is working.

Germany gives one billion euros direct military assistance to Ukraine.

Ukraine can buy everything it needs. Should it want to buy weapons from German manufactures it just needs the approval of ministry of economics.

Leopard tanks can roll.











Scholz: Mehr als eine Milliarde Euro Militärhilfe für Ukraine


Bundeskanzler Scholz will insgesamt zwei Milliarden Euro an weiteren Militärhilfen bereitstellen. Davon sollen deutlich mehr als eine Milliarde Euro an die Ukraine gehen.




www1.wdr.de

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## oberschlesier

Viet said:


> Finally
> 
> The pressure on Olaf Scholz is working.
> 
> Germany gives one billion euros direct military assistance to Ukraine.
> 
> Ukraine can buy everything it needs. Should it want to buy weapons from German manufactures it just needs the approval of ministry of economics.
> 
> Leopard tanks can roll.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scholz: Mehr als eine Milliarde Euro Militärhilfe für Ukraine
> 
> 
> Bundeskanzler Scholz will insgesamt zwei Milliarden Euro an weiteren Militärhilfen bereitstellen. Davon sollen deutlich mehr als eine Milliarde Euro an die Ukraine gehen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www1.wdr.de


Super, alle diese Hilfe geht an der Ukraine ?


----------



## jamal18

Viet said:


> Finally
> 
> The pressure on Olaf Scholz is working.
> 
> Germany gives one billion euros direct military assistance to Ukraine.
> 
> Ukraine can buy everything it needs. Should it want to buy weapons from German manufactures it just needs the approval of ministry of economics.
> 
> Leopard tanks can roll.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scholz: Mehr als eine Milliarde Euro Militärhilfe für Ukraine
> 
> 
> Bundeskanzler Scholz will insgesamt zwei Milliarden Euro an weiteren Militärhilfen bereitstellen. Davon sollen deutlich mehr als eine Milliarde Euro an die Ukraine gehen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www1.wdr.de


Zelensky has milions of dollars he can't account for, in the most corrupt country in the Europe. I strongly believe most of these will end up in foreign bank accounts.


----------



## KaiserX

Wood said:


> This is a colossal loss of true. No wonder Russian state media is in a meltdown. The 'limited military operation' may soon sink Russia itself



And to think if India had ever invaded Pakistan proper post 2001, its forces would have taken losses that would be the russian-ukraine war look like a cat walk


----------



## Wood

Viet said:


> Finally
> 
> The pressure on Olaf Scholz is working.
> 
> Germany gives one billion euros direct military assistance to Ukraine.
> 
> Ukraine can buy everything it needs. Should it want to buy weapons from German manufactures it just needs the approval of ministry of economics.
> 
> Leopard tanks can roll.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scholz: Mehr als eine Milliarde Euro Militärhilfe für Ukraine
> 
> 
> Bundeskanzler Scholz will insgesamt zwei Milliarden Euro an weiteren Militärhilfen bereitstellen. Davon sollen deutlich mehr als eine Milliarde Euro an die Ukraine gehen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www1.wdr.de


Is there any truth to the report that Ukranians did not want German President to visit Kiev? Ukranian side denied it, but this was reported in Western media as an unexpected irritant 



KaiserX said:


> And to think if India had ever invaded Pakistan proper post 2001, its forces would have taken losses that would be the russian-ukraine war look like a cat walk


Good to see that this imaginary invasion did not happen

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1493736779802947584
https://static.rusi.org/special-report-202202-ukraine-web.pdf


----------



## Viet

oberschlesier said:


> Super, alle diese Hilfe geht an der Ukraine ?


One billion euros direct military assistance, plus 400 million euros indirect. In total 1.4 billion euros.









Scholz: Mehr als eine Milliarde Euro Militärhilfe


Bundeskanzler Scholz will insgesamt zwei Milliarden Euro an weiteren Militärhilfen bereitstellen. Davon sollen deutlich mehr als eine Milliarde Euro an die Ukraine gehen, wie das ARD-Hauptstadtstudio erfuhr.




www.tagesschau.de


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

oberschlesier said:


> What is the next step ? using TU-160 to bomb a tent camp with "FOREIGN MERCENARIES" ?
> 
> The Russian army is not fighting a war it was preparing too.




The Russians destroyed 90% of Ukrainian fuel, air force, and missile sites. They've almost surrounded the whole Eastern Ukraine, and are in the process of leveling other critical areas in the Ukrainian military, transportation, communication, and other critical centers. The second wave of the "special military operation" will shock the world. And don't forget this second wave includes attacks against any supplies coming from any of the neighboring countries. If push comes to shove, your Poland may experience of this new offensive. It seems Ukrainian neighbors who are supplying arms to them will feel of the heat of the Russian military.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515026982005784576
Do these people not care to exchange the Ukrainian POWs for the Russians captured in Ukraine?


----------



## Viet

Wood said:


> Is there any truth to the report that Ukranians did not want German President to visit Kiev? Ukranian side denied it, but this was reported in Western media as an unexpected irritant
> 
> 
> Good to see that this imaginary invasion did not happen


Yes that’s true.
Zelenskky has no interest to see him. That’s a harsh slap in a face. Steinmeier, Merkel, Schröder are prominent figures of failed appeasement politics. Ukraine is not happy they say the german trio have bloods of Ukraine children in their hands.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515039664654196736


----------



## Wood

Viet said:


> Yes that’s true.
> Zelenskky has no interest to see him. That’s a harsh slap in a face. Steinmeier, Merkel, Schröder are prominent figures of failed appeasement politics. Ukraine is not happy they say they have bloods of Ukraine children in their hands.


Not a smart strategic move by Zelensky.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515014970534203394

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514996848955691010


----------



## Viet

Wood said:


> Not a smart strategic move by Zelensky.


No not diplomatic
The German gov is not amused.
Zelensky trying to smooth the anger.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514972569614626824


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515038441884426240


----------



## Meengla

Viet said:


> Reports from the West predict the Donbas battle is about to begin in 4 days. Russia amassing 60 battalions plus 20 battalions in reserves. In total 80 battalions. So about 80,000 men with estimated 800 tanks, 3,000 infantry verhicles.
> 
> That will be a bloodbath.



Bloodbath, yes.
Like Mariupol was almost certain to fall but so many lives were lost before the Russians are finally doing what was inevitable. Donbas is also very likely to fall. Ukrainian forces should move away from Donbas, regroup, fortify their lines and fight from there; otherwise, it looks like the Russians don't seem to care about destroying and killing to achieve their goals. And Ukrainians don't seem to care to have so much death and destruction for some 'pride'. 
Armies retreat all the time. Save lives!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RescueRanger

thetutle said:


> They better hope he is not CIA. If they've killed him and he is in the CIA, these guys are a finished.


Yeah that tweet is BS. Any Intelligence agency’s policy is NCND = neither confirm nor deny.


----------



## Messerschmitt

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515008736959643652

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515036963375661067

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## RescueRanger

Also didn’t Russia say they would be having borscht in Kyiv by the third week and Ukrainians would welcome them with open arms?

Looks like Russians didn’t learn anything from its part incursions in Slovakia and Grozny.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515034431035162633


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515021487576698885


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515051736956026880

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

Incredible!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515015861479915522

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hack-Hook

Apollon said:


> You can send it via car to moscow quite easily


not easy at all,


----------



## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> Finally
> 
> The pressure on Olaf Scholz is working.
> 
> Germany gives one billion euros direct military assistance to Ukraine.
> 
> Ukraine can buy everything it needs. Should it want to buy weapons from German manufactures it just needs the approval of ministry of economics.
> 
> Leopard tanks can roll.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scholz: Mehr als eine Milliarde Euro Militärhilfe für Ukraine
> 
> 
> Bundeskanzler Scholz will insgesamt zwei Milliarden Euro an weiteren Militärhilfen bereitstellen. Davon sollen deutlich mehr als eine Milliarde Euro an die Ukraine gehen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www1.wdr.de



Excellent news - step in the right direction but this new support is still a fraction of what the UK has provided so far.


----------



## RescueRanger

US made trip flares found in an Ukrainian compound captured by pro- Russian forces.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511736238717509643


----------



## Hack-Hook

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515014031735934980


I knew what can cause such destruction and it was what I afraid to become the norm in future weeks


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Brovary, Kiev Oblast.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515048530817306628


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515053317268901895

Capture of Russian POWs


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514993136753426432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514996848955691010


----------



## oberschlesier

Viet said:


> One billion euros direct military assistance, plus 400 million euros indirect. In total 1.4 billion euros.
> 
> https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/scholz-ukraine-militaerhilfe-101.html/URL]


Okay, dann auch Wahrscheinlich teilweise auch an Polen


----------



## Viet

Meengla said:


> Bloodbath, yes.
> Like Mariupol was almost certain to fall but so many lives were lost before the Russians are finally doing what was inevitable. Donbas is also very likely to fall. Ukrainian forces should move away from Donbas, regroup, fortify their lines and fight from there; otherwise, it looks like the Russians don't seem to care about destroying and killing to achieve their goals. And Ukrainians don't seem to care to have so much death and destruction for some 'pride'.
> Armies retreat all the time. Save lives!


Why should Ukraine army in Donbas front surrender? Without a fight? No way. They know what they expect from the Russians: gulags, labor camps, extermination. Russian soldiers are looters, rapists. Like in Mariupol the Ukrainians will fight until the bitter end. race against the time. The weapons must come sooner than later. Every day counts.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514968556206796805

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515004312631771136


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515051736956026880


This was hilarious. Must be humiliating for the ethno nationalists to admit that Ukrainians are their equal. In video clips from similar state TV talk shows they used feel so superior


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514930212689137664


----------



## oberschlesier

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The Russians destroyed 90% of Ukrainian fuel, air force, and missile sites. They've almost surrounded the whole Eastern Ukraine, and are in the process of leveling other critical areas in the Ukrainian military, transportation, communication, and other critical centers. The second wave of the "special military operation" will shock the world. And don't forget this second wave includes attacks against any supplies coming from any of the neighboring countries. If push comes to shove, your Poland may experience of this new offensive. It seems Ukrainian neighbors who are supplying arms to them will feel of the heat of the Russian military.


Yes, 90% how do you know this ?

They destroyed a lot, but did not to achieve any political goals and probaly won`t.

Poland ? You mean Königsberg, right ?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514930184826331141

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514924084899065867


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515022342040481792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515011696229769223


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514926309775974404

Reactions: Haha Haha:
3


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515058588007473154


----------



## oberschlesier

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515022342040481792
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515011696229769223


Königsberg 


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515022342040481792
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515011696229769223


"Königsberg"


----------



## Viet

The US confirmed Ukrainian claim: the cruiser Moskwa was hit by two Ukraine antiship missiles and sunk. The storm hindered the rescue efforts by other Russian ships. apparently many crewmen were killed.

Ukraine is aware Russia army will retaliate for the humiliation.









„Wir sind uns alle bewusst, dass man uns dies nicht verzeihen wird“


Russland hat den Verlust seines Kampfschiffes bestätigt. Die Ukraine rechnet mit Rache. Die russischen Angriffe nehmen zu.




amp.tagesspiegel.de

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515052474134142982


oberschlesier said:


> Königsberg
> 
> "Königsberg"




Königsberg is Kaliningrad and is part of Russia. Not sure why you keep repeating it.


----------



## Meengla

Viet said:


> Why should Ukraine army in Donbas front surrender? Without a fight? No way. They know what they expect from the Russians: gulags, labor camps, extermination. Russian soldiers are looters, rapists. Like in Mariupol the Ukrainians will fight until the bitter end. race against the time. The weapons must come sooner than later. Every day counts.



Look, Pakistanis have no dog in this fight. We just want peace to prevail. I think Russia wants the land in the southeast of Ukraine--even if empty--and they had allegedly offering the Ukrainian military to leave Mariupol carrying their arms. That was a generous offer and I think was also genuine. Russians knew the price to pay and they paid the price by taking Mariupol. In the end, the Russians are just about in control of Mariupol. Those cheering a futile battle sitting from far away are not in harms way.

Like Mariupol, the Donbas region eventually faces the same fate. Save lives. Go away from that area, regroup and fight another day. As I said, armies retreat all the time.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515062018306457612


----------



## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The Russians destroyed 90% of Ukrainian fuel, air force, and missile sites. They've almost surrounded the whole Eastern Ukraine, and are in the process of leveling other critical areas in the Ukrainian military, transportation, communication, and other critical centers. The second wave of the "special military operation" will shock the world. And don't forget this second wave includes attacks against any supplies coming from any of the neighboring countries. If push comes to shove, your Poland may experience of this new offensive. It seems Ukrainian neighbors who are supplying arms to them will feel of the heat of the Russian military.


this



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515004312631771136


 like they keep popingout but they where all destroyed


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515024746857041929


bobo6661 said:


> this
> 
> 
> like they keep popingout but they where all destroyed




You're a troll and not adding anything substantive to the thread. Can you stop quoting me?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515024746857041929


----------



## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You're a troll and not adding anything substantive to the thread. Can you stop quoting me?


Man your the biggest bs troll in this thread and like your started so dont cry

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515010652997304333


----------



## kingQamaR

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514926309775974404



The Neptune is an anti-ship cruise missile developed and produced by Ukraine based on the Soviet-designed Kh-35, but with improved range and electronics


----------



## Hack-Hook

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515058588007473154


air raid for areas that don't matter , if they have cut the supply route from Poland to Ukraine they were a lot more successful , they don't understand they must focus on west of Ukraine not center they must target Ukraine transportation network , if they want to slow the flow of arms into Ukraine otherwise they will sink there and they sink hard if those route remain open

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## Vergennes

bobo6661 said:


> this
> 
> 
> like they keep popingout but they where all destroyed



LMAO Russians keep coming with numbers out of their @sses yet some believe them yet they provide no evidence for it. They have claimed to have destroyed more tanks and drones than in actual Ukraine inventory just as an exemple

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jamal18

Viet said:


> The US confirmed Ukrainian claim: the cruiser Moskwa was hit by two Ukraine antiship missiles and sunk. The storm hindered the rescue efforts by other Russian ships. apparently many crewmen were killed.
> 
> Ukraine is aware Russia army will retaliate for the humiliation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> „Wir sind uns alle bewusst, dass man uns dies nicht verzeihen wird“
> 
> 
> Russland hat den Verlust seines Kampfschiffes bestätigt. Die Ukraine rechnet mit Rache. Die russischen Angriffe nehmen zu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amp.tagesspiegel.de


Sure? I thought that the Pentagon did not confirm a missile strike.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514980071232225281

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514980301788921857

Reactions: Like Like:
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## MajesticPug

gambit said:


> China already know this harsh reality. The weather over the strait will not give China the time of choosing like how Russia had on land, and precisely because China had to traverse water and that amphibious operations are the most technically complex, China must win. Poutine may not like losing, but at least Russia on land have the option of losing. But China cannot afford to lose, else Taiwan might as well be truly independent.



Dream on. Why doesn't the US send its navy and airforces to fight China? The excuse of causing a nuclear war is just an excuse. Even fighting the polar bear in Ukraine would not incite Russia to fire away its nuclear missiles. American military-industrial mindset is just chicken shit .. wanting somebody to die for their profits. Nothing more.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> LMAO Russians keep coming with numbers out of their @sses yet some believe them yet they provide no evidence for it. They have claimed to have destroyed more tanks and drones than in actual Ukraine inventory just as an exemple





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515030207543103489


----------



## Vergennes

"world's second most powerful army".


----------



## bobo6661

Vergennes said:


> LMAO Russians keep coming with numbers out of their @sses yet some believe them yet they provide no evidence for it. They have claimed to have destroyed more tanks and drones than in actual Ukraine inventory just as an exemple


Yee i mean i dont have problem with his post just annoying when he askes for proof proof when he mostly dont provide any proof himself😂 and says just belive me becose its what russian said 😂

Reactions: Like Like:
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## MajesticPug

SalarHaqq said:


> What exactly happened in Bucha, featuring the excellent Scott Ritter, former US Marine Corps intelligence officer an UN weapons inspector in Iraq.



Talked about freedom of speech in America? LOL.. Twitters, FB, Telegram, Whatsapp all work for the control-freaking-obsessive Washington DC aka DOD NSA.



Vergennes said:


> "world's second most powerful army".
> 
> View attachment 834697



But the French dare not to come into the ring. LOL..

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## Vergennes

bobo6661 said:


> Yee i mean i dont have problem with his post just annoying when he askes for proof proof when he mostly dont provide any proof himself😂 and says just belive me becose its what russian said 😂



Dude said to me in another post "You can keep doing denial after denial but truth is obvious to those who are not *One-Eyed. " 

❗️The number of rescued sailors of "Moscow" was 58 people from the staff of 510, said former State Duma deputy Ilya Ponomarev.


 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514905392261775360*

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514920945156296708


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> "world's second most powerful army".
> 
> View attachment 834697




Old photo of the DNR and LNR people's militia in Eastern Ukraine. Stop chatting shit. 

Now how about this? 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515058032979456004

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

MajesticPug said:


> Talked about freedom of speech in America? LOL.. Twitters, FB, Telegram, Whatsapp all work for the control-freaking-obsessive Washington DC aka DOD NSA.
> 
> 
> 
> But the French dare not to come into the ring. LOL..



Poland alone could smash the thing you call "the world's second most powerful army" seeing their amazing performance in Ukraine.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514913498169589770


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514926583815245828


----------



## kingQamaR

Hack-Hook said:


> air raid for areas that don't matter , if they have cut the supply route from Poland to Ukraine they were a lot more successful , they don't understand they must focus on west of Ukraine not center they must target Ukraine transportation network , if they want to slow the flow of arms into Ukraine otherwise they will sink there and they sink hard if those route remain open



Putin either doesn't know or has ignored advice from his military that the only way to win is to take and be able to hold territory something which the Russian armed forces have been unable to do. Missiles and artillery on their own may cause widespread death and destruction but they don't win wars.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514878510170804224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515071541490458628


----------



## kingQamaR

MajesticPug said:


> Dream on. Why doesn't the US send its navy and airforces to fight China? The excuse of causing a nuclear war is just an excuse. Even fighting the polar bear in Ukraine would not incite Russia to fire away its nuclear missiles. American military-industrial mindset is just chicken shit .. wanting somebody to die for their profits. Nothing more.



USA WW3, if the USA wanted to kick off WW3, they could have done that by kicking Russia out of Ukraine, The USA on its own without Nato, would absolutley anhialate Russia in a conventional war. The only reason they have not got involed is to prevent that you pretend they want to start

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514886177115054081

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514826403870556166

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515069079303901186


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Chechen mujahidiin


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515064722894336010

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515064440672210947

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515064265920626700


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515043887844311043

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515036120437960705


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515069214700281862


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514988512503816192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514924711641243650


----------



## bobo6661

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515032245022736395


----------



## gambit

MajesticPug said:


> Dream on. *Why doesn't the US send its navy and airforces to fight China? * The excuse of causing a nuclear war is just an excuse. Even fighting the polar bear in Ukraine would not incite Russia to fire away its nuclear missiles. American military-industrial mindset is just chicken shit .. wanting somebody to die for their profits. Nothing more.


We are in the SCS waiting for your first shot.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515025431757574146


bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515032245022736395




Desperate


----------



## bobo6661

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Desperate





Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You're a troll and not adding anything substantive to the thread. Can you stop quoting me?


Guess your for shure 😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514891998804824064
propaganda for propaganda 😂


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515076396002988036

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515071904478072838


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515062781300641798


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515069114364178435


----------



## MajesticPug

kingQamaR said:


> USA WW3, if the USA wanted to kick off WW3, they could have done that by kicking Russia out of Ukraine, The USA on its own without Nato, would absolutley anhialate Russia in a conventional war. The only reason they have not got involed is to prevent that you pretend they want to start



I don't think so. While Russian naval forces and armies are in shattered form due to years of under-funding, its strategic missiles still hold a lot of punches that could wipe out one or two carrier groups and multiple US bases in a conventional shoot out. The Patriots could not intercept most of Russian missiles.



Vergennes said:


> Poland alone could smash the thing you call "the world's second most powerful army" seeing their amazing performance in Ukraine.


Haha...



gambit said:


> We are in the SCS waiting for your first shot.



I thought Americans were threatening China over Taiwan. Took a U-turn, again? LOL..


----------



## Ali_Baba

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515032245022736395



Those are Su27's - not Mig29's.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515085260219830273

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515077831008604164
They put this guy to be in charge of a country. LMAO



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515073817818849287

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## fallschirmjager786

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/15/world/europe/russia-moskva-warship-ukraine-missiles.html

US confirmation that the cruiser was indeed struck by the Ukrainians. Terrible loss for Putin and Russia. They will not be able to replace a ship of her size and class.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515052305716072453


----------



## Trango Towers

fallschirmjager786 said:


> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/15/world/europe/russia-moskva-warship-ukraine-missiles.html
> 
> US confirmation that the cruiser was indeed struck by the Ukrainians. Terrible loss for Putin and Russia. They will not be able to replace a ship of her size and class.


Everything is replaceable

Reactions: Like Like:
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## gambit

MajesticPug said:


> I don't think so. While Russian naval forces and armies are in shattered form due to years of under-funding, its strategic missiles still hold a lot of punches that could wipe out one or two carrier groups and multiple US bases in a conventional shoot out. The Patriots could not intercept most of Russian missiles.


Any time I see any defender of Russia fall back on missiles, I know that is a loser argument.



MajesticPug said:


> I thought Americans were threatening China over Taiwan. Took a U-turn, again? LOL..


We are not 'threatening' China. We have diplomatic relations and arming Taiwan, essentially, we are saying attack US, if you dare.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## mmr

gambit said:


> We are in the SCS waiting for your first shot.


CCP is all talk no bite.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## gambit

Trango Towers said:


> Everything is replaceable


Technically, yes. But realistically, the loss of the Moskva will take yrs, if even approved, to replace. It take 5-6 yrs to build a new Arleigh Burke class destroyer. Just because the build is approved, it does not mean everything will go smoothly. Are the manufacturers and suppliers, from steel to construction workers to electronics, available? Will they be able to be around for decades to support the vessel? Does the country have the manpower to recruit? All these and myriad lesser issues must be addressed whether before the contract is approved or not. But in the case of Russia, the economics issues imposed by the Western countries will have effects on Russia's ability to replace the loss. So now the list of problems is x2.

In the long term, Russian airpower is clearly not the fearsome force it has been perceived all these decades, now Russian seapower is equally diminished. The Russian military is now a 3rd rate force, even with all those nuclear missiles.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Trango Towers

gambit said:


> Technically, yes. But realistically, the loss of the Moskva will take yrs, if even approved, to replace. It take 5-6 yrs to build a new Arleigh Burke class destroyer. Just because the build is approved, it does not mean everything will go smoothly. Are the manufacturers and suppliers, from steel to construction workers to electronics, available? Will they be able to be around for decades to support the vessel? Does the country have the manpower to recruit? All these and myriad lesser issues must be addressed whether before the contract is approved or not. But in the case of Russia, the economics issues imposed by the Western countries will have effects on Russia's ability to replace the loss. So now the list of problems is x2.
> 
> In the long term, Russian airpower is clearly not the fearsome force it has been perceived all these decades, now Russian seapower is equally diminished. The Russian military is now a 3rd rate force, even with all those nuclear missiles.


For sure. Everything takes time and resources. But it can be done


----------



## ahtan_china



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514960548890394626

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515006105025679368

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514668312738902019


----------



## Bleek

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514668312738902019


But if they actually do something in real life you will begin to weep about war crimes... 🙃

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515118904011599873

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514813624292081664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515070618609324033

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## thetutle

jamal18 said:


> Zelensky has milions of dollars he can't account for, in the most corrupt country in the Europe. I strongly believe most of these will end up in foreign bank accounts.


Who cares? obviously not true, but even if it is, who really cares?


----------



## thetutle

jamal18 said:


> A long serious discussion on the global view of what is happening.


do these opportunists propose just giving up Ukraine and Taiwan without a fight? I think this is their plan.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515115934616375296

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## MajesticPug

gambit said:


> We are not 'threatening' China. We have diplomatic relations and arming Taiwan, essentially, we are saying attack US, if you dare.



Right! It was _not _a threat to Russia nabbing Ukraine into a military coalition and installing missiles aiming at Moscow from Ukraine.

I will revisit with you when China unifies Taiwan and see US backing out from its words. We've seen that many times, haven't we? Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, ...

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## gambit

MajesticPug said:


> Right! It was _not _a threat to Russia nabbing Ukraine into a military coalition and installing missiles aiming at Moscow from Ukraine.


Did you missed that NATO rejected Ukraine *TWICE*?



MajesticPug said:


> I will revisit with you when China unifies Taiwan and see US backing out from its words. We've seen that many times, haven't we? Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, ...


And the US military was successful in those 'special military operations'. For Iraq, that 'special military operation' was successful enough that your PLA reformatted itself to look like US.

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## MajesticPug

gambit said:


> Did you missed that NATO rejected Ukraine *TWICE*?
> 
> 
> And the US military was successful in those 'special military operations'. For Iraq, that 'special military operation' was successful enough that your PLA reformatted itself to look like US.


NATO is a military gang organized and headed by US. So you figure it out.

No one said United States' weapons are not deadly and its tactics not effective. You probably didn't know what were said and seen done.

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## CAPRICORN-88

MOSCOW // Updated: April 15, 2022, 14:52 IST
*Russia said on Friday that it has killed up to 30 Polish mercenaries* fighting for Ukrainian forces in the war-torn country’s northeastern region of Kharkiv.
The Russian defence ministry said its strategic rocket forces “eliminated up to 30 Polish mercenaries" in a strike on *the village of Izyumskoe, not far from the city of Kharkiv*

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## Oldman1

Wergeland said:


> NATO is a US construct and by large a US organization.
> 
> Europe after WW2 was completely devastated, while the USA was totally intact and profited from the war. After end of WW2 there were really only two countries who had the power and logistics to wield large scale operations in Europe; The Soviet Union and USA. While the US took control of western Europe, the Soviet took control of eastern half of Europe. That was the setup for almost 40 years during the cold war.
> 
> After the cold war, Soviet lost control and influence over its posessions in Eastern Europe. The USA OTOH had no reason to give up its posessions in Western Europe, quite the opposite. As the sole remaining power in Europe it could do whatever it wanted and expanded its posessions way up to Russian border, and thats where we are today. Rest is just wish wash mumbo jumbo.
> 
> So this conflict, is not a NATO vs Russia conflict. In fact its a continuation of the long standing power struggle between the big boys in town; USA and Russia. European countries are only spectator and mere chess pieces. The players are USA and Russia.


So you say but you see a bunch of countries especially in Eastern Europe that wants to join NATO for this exact reason, to not be taken by Russia. Most of the Eastern European countries militaries are pretty much no match against Russia if they have to defend alone. I mean look at Sweden and Finland.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515041074779242502
This interesting tweet by Gary highlights a fact that is often overlooked when there is a discussion about Soviet army's achievement in WW2. During that time, the Soviet army had the blessing of being a beneficiary to lend lease policy. Today, Putin's Z force has the opposite of that in terms of sanctions that prevent his local military complex from producing arms

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## Oldman1

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515041074779242502
> This interesting tweet by Gary highlights a fact that is often overlooked when there is a discussion about Soviet army's achievement in WW2. During that time, the Soviet army had the blessing of being a beneficiary to lend lease policy. Today, Putin's Z force has the opposite of that in terms of sanctions that prevent his local military complex from producing arms


U.S. needs to send in more. Not in small batches, have to speed it up. Instead of 700 or 800 million military aid package, needs to be 10 billion. 10 billion is chump change compared to what the U.S. spent fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan as well as support the militaries of those countries.

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## CAPRICORN-88

April 15, 2022
Russian Deputy PM Says Several Buyers Agree To Pay In Roubles For Russian Gas​
According to Russian Deputy Prime Minister Alexander Novak, some customers of Russian gas have agreed to switch to rouble payments.

In comments published in the ministry’s in-house magazine, he continued, “We expect the choice (to switch to roubles) from other importers.” He kept the identity of consumers who had previously switched a secret.

Last month, *Russian President Vladimir Putin announced that customers of Russian gas from “unfriendly” nations should pay in roubles, a proposal that the European Union’s sanctions system against Moscow opposed.*

As part of his retaliation for the sanctions imposed over what Moscow calls its “special military operation” in Ukraine, *Putin has warned Europe that unless it pays in Russian currency, it risks having its gas supply cut off.*

He proposed in March that energy importers register accounts with Gazprombank, where payments made in euros or dollars would be turned into roubles.

Armenia made numerous rouble payments for Russian natural gas supply, according to Economy Minister Vagan Kerobyan, who spoke with Russian news site RBC on Friday.

Hungary’s Foreign Minister, Peter Szijjarto, announced on Monday that the country intends to pay for Russian gas through Gazprombank in euros.

Reuters


----------



## Wood

Oldman1 said:


> U.S. needs to send in more. Not in small batches, have to speed it up. Instead of 700 or 800 million military aid package, needs to be 10 billion. 10 billion is chump change compared to what the U.S. spent fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan as well as support the militaries of those countries.


Yes, Putin is trying to put a lot of firepower in the upcoming battle in East. Ukranians need a lot more to hold on to territory. Technical superiority of Western weapons may not be enough to overcome the numbers

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## CAPRICORN-88

The US Pentagon admitted in their press statement that the war in Ukraine is shape by Russia. 

Need we to go on? 

Russia said that they may intensified the war in Kiev by conducting pin point aerial and missile strikes in retaliation for attack launched by Ukraine on villages in Russia. 

Analysts interprete this as a message that Russia has been showing restraint so far to avoid civilian casualties but a war of decapitation may soon begin.


----------



## Apollon

Hack-Hook said:


> not easy at all,



Are you kidding me? Russia has virtually zero border controle and is deeply corrupted. If you think its not easy to get few kg uranium dust over the border...russia did not even notice attack helicopters going in and out. 

Russia isnt a developed nation.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

*The war in Mariupol reminded us of US attack on Fallujah in Iraq that took place back in 2004 by joint U.S. Army Special Forces advisers, SEAL Sniper Task and UK SAS. *

Despite its overwhelming superiority in heavy artilleries bombardment and aerial attacks on basically a flat terrain, US took almost 8 weeks to overcome Saddam's defender, the Iraqi 36th Commando Battalion. 
*
An overwhelming 13,350 US UK troops were involved in the attack against 3700 Iraqi soldiers. *

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## CAPRICORN-88

*Illich Iron & Steel Works has just fallen to the Russian forces* leaving Avozstal Steel Work which is probably hours or even days away. 

The Azov battalion holding up there consists of mainly foreign mercenaries.

It seems that the Russia are now lining up their heavy artilleries there for the final assault.

With the capture of Azovstal Steel Works, Russian force will have full control of Mariupol. 

Meanwhile a report have surfaced that the US is now finding herself in critical short supply of Stinger and Javelin in their stockpile after supplying them to Ukraine. What does it means?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515110661994565648

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## DF41

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> But then you aren't bothered by the more than 3000 Ukrainians that have surrendered yesterday. So which one is important: An aging ship vs 3000 men who were taken as prisoner of war and over 200 wounded that were also captured by the Russian forces?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514592711403356163




Your patience with brainless zombies astonishing.
He was about the first one here I decided will be utter waste of time to see the rubbish he can spewed.
His name coming up only when he taken to task.

But really I do not have that much time and I rather spend the time reading more valuable postings from you and others like you.

ghazi52 of special mention. I like and enjoyed all his postings. That I will not have the time to read and enjoy if I had not blocked those other stupid puerile postings, or in one case, skimmed and scroll past and unsee whatever was skimmed.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515178046134919179

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515178047036665856

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515178048055828482

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515178048932483080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515178051809779715

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515178052845723649

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## DF41

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> With this huge number of MLRSs going to to Eastern Ukraine, Russia seems to be determined to go all the way and liberate the DNR and LNR republics.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514921718564933639


https://m.bilibili.com/video/BV1oq4y1H7AP/ 
《喀秋莎》小女孩演唱​

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## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515115934616375296


brits need send the anti ship weapons faster. i dont think us and uk sending enough arms.



Oldman1 said:


> U.S. needs to send in more. Not in small batches, have to speed it up. Instead of 700 or 800 million military aid package, needs to be 10 billion. 10 billion is chump change compared to what the U.S. spent fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan as well as support the militaries of those countries.


exactly


----------



## Viet

Wood said:


> Yes, Putin is trying to put a lot of firepower in the upcoming battle in East. Ukranians need a lot more to hold on to territory. Technical superiority of Western weapons may not be enough to overcome the numbers


the Russians will attack by 800 tanks, 3,000 infantry verhicles, thousands of supply trucks. The Ukraine defenders will dig in deep trenches waiting. That’ll a battle of Kursk redux.

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## Apollon

Russia lost its defense minister. Shoigu had a massive heart attack and is now intubated at intensive care...









Russian Defence Minister suffers heart attack, 20 generals under suspicion


Leonid Nevzlin claims Russia's Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu has suffered a heart attack, which he suspects was triggered by foul play.




www.dnaindia.com







@F-22Raptor @Viet

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## Viet

Apollon said:


> Russia lost its defense minister. Shoigu had a massive heart attack and is now intubated at intensive care...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Defence Minister suffers heart attack, 20 generals under suspicion
> 
> 
> Leonid Nevzlin claims Russia's Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu has suffered a heart attack, which he suspects was triggered by foul play.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dnaindia.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @F-22Raptor @Viet


Heart attack? Most likely in a moskow prison or Siberia gulag. This war is not going to plan. Putin needs someone to blame. But Putin can blame himself. Shoigu is not a military man. he came from civil disaster relief department. He got promoted by Putin because Shoigu is a loyal stooge.

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## mmr

Apollon said:


> Russia lost its defense minister. Shoigu had a massive heart attack and is now intubated at intensive care...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Defence Minister suffers heart attack, 20 generals under suspicion
> 
> 
> Leonid Nevzlin claims Russia's Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu has suffered a heart attack, which he suspects was triggered by foul play.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dnaindia.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @F-22Raptor @Viet


Blaming defence minister... soon putin will kill all his generals.

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## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> The US Pentagon admitted in their press statement that the war in Ukraine is shape by Russia.
> 
> Need we to go on?
> 
> Russia said that they may intensified the war in Kiev by conducting pin point aerial and missile strikes in retaliation for attack launched by Ukraine on villages in Russia.
> 
> Analysts interprete this as a message that Russia has been showing restraint so far to avoid civilian casualties but a war of decapitation may soon begin.


Ok understood. Ukraine nazi bombs russian villages, so Putin revenges by bombing Kiev and Odessa by strategic bombers.

Russians become notorious liar.


----------



## thetutle

MajesticPug said:


> Dream on. Why doesn't the US send its navy and airforces to fight China? The excuse of causing a nuclear war is just an excuse. Even fighting the polar bear in Ukraine would not incite Russia to fire away its nuclear missiles. American military-industrial mindset is just chicken shit .. wanting somebody to die for their profits. Nothing more.


There is no reason for US to fight. They are just helping Ukraine and Taiwan who want to live in freedom.

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## thetutle

bobo6661 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515032245022736395


How do we know this is not a donated mig-29?


----------



## thetutle

ahtan_china said:


> View attachment 834727


Wouldn't it be smarter for russia to stop fighting?



Oldman1 said:


> So you say but you see a bunch of countries especially in Eastern Europe that wants to join NATO for this exact reason, to not be taken by Russia. Most of the Eastern European countries militaries are pretty much no match against Russia if they have to defend alone. I mean look at Sweden and Finland.


But they wont have to defend alone.


----------



## kingQamaR

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> The US Pentagon admitted in their press statement that the war in Ukraine is shape by Russia.
> 
> Need we to go on?
> 
> Russia said that they may intensified the war in Kiev by conducting pin point aerial and missile strikes in retaliation for attack launched by Ukraine on villages in Russia.
> 
> Analysts interprete this as a message that Russia has been showing restraint so far to avoid civilian casualties but a war of decapitation may soon begin.



You cannot defeat a determined partisan war, nor can you cut off external arms supplies to them. North Vietnam, Afghanistan , WW2 Belarus and Soviet partisans - absolutely unstoppable. Putin really should have remembered that one he’s stumbled in a war of bad intel. Ukrainians have been trained armed since 2014 how the hell Russians missed this important fact when planning attack

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## thetutle

These clowns are Greek Orthodox and support Marie le pen and Putin, hoping muslims will be kicked out of Constantinople (Istanbul) and Europe generally. 

A bunch of lowlifes.

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## Trango Towers

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515115934616375296


I mean who didn't know this?

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## Hack-Hook

Apollon said:


> Are you kidding me? Russia has virtually zero border controle and is deeply corrupted. If you think its not easy to get few kg uranium dust over the border...russia did not even notice attack helicopters going in and out.
> 
> Russia isnt a developed nation.


well better take a truck load of it otherwise not much effective and better be something far more fast decaying than uranium . then hope nobody notice it on satellites


----------



## thetutle

jamahir said:


> You are being idiotic. Freedom to be homeless and hungry ? Why don't you go to America and exercise that sublime pleasure too ? And grab the nearest Great American Flag off some telephone pole ( Americans and Indians are the greatest in putting up flags everywhere ) and wrap it around yourself because you don't have a blanket.


You are Indian so I understand that you having lived in a country that basically does now have a sewer system or enough food for everyone, that America is like that too. 

This is not the case. People in America choose to be homeless by not wanting to work. sometimes they choose alcohol or drugs instead or mortgage and a roof over your head. This is freedom to choose. You cant force people in America to live as you want them. 

He is not here because he was born into a caste system, he is there because of his choices. He could find a job tomorrow and be richer than the average Indian in about a week.

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## CAPRICORN-88

kingQamaR said:


> You cannot defeat a determined partisan war, nor can you cut off external arms supplies to them. North Vietnam, Afghanistan , WW2 Belarus and Soviet partisans - absolutely unstoppable. Putin really should have remembered that one he’s stumbled in a war of bad intel. Ukrainians have been trained armed since 2014 how the hell Russians missed this important fact when planning attack


That is just a matter of your opinion and it won't changed a thing. 

But when Russia a party in the war announced that they were be now targeting *Decision Making Centers*, that will be something else and tells us where the war is heading.

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## ahtan_china

thetutle said:


> Wouldn't it be smarter for russia to stop fighting?
> 
> 
> But they wont have to defend alone.

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## thetutle

ahtan_china said:


> View attachment 834802


This is absurd. Noone is asking china to put out the fire. The west just wants russia to be defeated. And things are looking that way.


----------



## Trango Towers

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *The war in Mariupol reminded us of US attack on Fallujah in Iraq that took place back in 2004 by joint U.S. Army Special Forces advisers, SEAL Sniper Task and UK SAS. *
> 
> Despite its overwhelming superiority in heavy artilleries bombardment and aerial attacks on basically a flat terrain, US took almost 8 weeks to overcome Saddam's defender, the Iraqi 36th Commando Battalion.
> 
> *An overwhelming 13,350 US UK troops were involved in the attack against 3700 Iraqi soldiers. *


When u fight for your country its like that

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## CAPRICORN-88

Trango Towers said:


> When u fight for your country its like that


Which reminds me of a survey that read:

*Will you die for your nation? 

 *

in a survey in Taiwan that reads "Will you fight against China? " 

And the result was a majority of those polled said *NO*.

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## ahtan_china

thetutle said:


> You just aren't happy with America supplying weapons to ukranien while they have homeless people. Well i have some bad news for you. These weapons will keep coming.
> 
> You can be a communist, who cares what you are. Go live in a communist country. Does not bother me.
> 
> 
> This is absurd. Noone is asking china to put out the fire. The west just wants russia to be defeated. And things are looking that way.

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## Ali_Baba

Putin mocked for struggling to explain Moskva sinking


RUSSIA remains tight-lipped over the exact number of dead from the Moskva sinking, with speculation in Ukraine that as many as 450 sailors could have perished in the attack.




www.express.co.uk





_*Mr Sweeney explained: "Apparently what happened, the gossip is, that they distracted the Russians with a drone and they were concentrating on that.*_

*"They worked out that the main radar on the ship only has a 180-degree view so they sent the missiles around the back and bang." *

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## kingQamaR

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Which reminds me of a survey that read:
> 
> *Will you die for your nation? *
> 
> **
> 
> in a survey in Taiwan that reads "Will you fight against China? "
> 
> And the result was a majority of those polled said *NO*.



My advice to you is, do not put your faith in a random Taiwan survey polls results on china

As Russians discovered , there are no flowers or happy Ukrainians to see them

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515238551641808899

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515248987640582144

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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515264070227841027

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515266076233371649

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515262220418134020


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515231621158522882

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515180581516156936

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515277206443937792


----------



## Beast

ahtan_china said:


> View attachment 834820


Isn't she the one asking US to lower the tariff on made in China products?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515266450201718785

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## jamahir

Trango Towers said:


> When u fight for your country its like that



Well, the Iraqis were fighting a righteous war. Zelensky's people - those who are committed and fanatic - are criminals.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515180581516156936



The CIA officer will be punished and also villified in the mainstream media.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515264219293364225

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## CAPRICORN-88

kingQamaR said:


> My advice to you is, do not put your faith in a random Taiwan survey polls results on china
> 
> As Russians discovered , there are no flowers or happy Ukrainians to see them


And my advice to you is not to bother yourself with issues that do not concern or affects us in real life. 

After 70 years Cuban still refused to embrace the US style democracy tells us a lot. 

Taiwan is an all China internal affair, leave it to them.

Whether or not a bouquet of roses will be presented to the Russian, depends on which side of Ukraine one it on. 

If It is on the Eastern part like Donbass, they will probably hanged the Actor President and lay the flower on his unmarked grave.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Taiwanese will probably leave the island rather than to waste their life fighting in the war to defend who? 
President Umehara aka Tsai???


----------



## Apollon

Hack-Hook said:


> well better take a truck load of it otherwise not much effective and better be something far more fast decaying than uranium . then hope nobody notice it on satellites


Chernobyl released only 6kg and look at the effect.

That "destroy game" can be played from both sides


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## kingQamaR

jamahir said:


> To what end is this supply of weapons ?
> 
> 
> 
> You should care. And don't take out that cliched statement "Go live in a Communist country if you like Communism so much". Don't you want free housing, free water, free healthcare, free education etc ? Don't you want to be rid of the life of being a wage slave just to have a basic survival and instead contribute to the political, social, socio-economic, technoiogical and environmental evolution of your country ? You live in Australia, what is your chance of gathering a team of interested rocket enthusiasts, computer engineers, materials people, HVAC people etc and starting a spacecraft design company like SpaceX, Relativity Space and Rocket Lab ?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the Iraqis were fighting a righteous war. Zelensky's people - those who are committed and fanatic - are criminals.
> 
> 
> 
> The CIA officer will be punished and also villified in the mainstream media.



Communism is by it nature a lie. In every communist nation that has ever stained this earth, there has been the workers..........and then, the Party members. The Party members were given benefits and comforts that no worker could ever hope to achieve on their own. It is a hypocritical mindset that was doomed from its inception.

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## thetutle

jamahir said:


> To what end is this supply of weapons ?


I can only guess, but I would say the goal is to prevent Russia expanding its borders as a primary goal. Regime change in Russia as a secondary goal. 



jamahir said:


> You should care. And don't take out that cliched statement "Go live in a Communist country if you like Communism so much". Don't you want free housing, free water, free healthcare, free education etc ? Don't you want to be rid of the life of being a wage slave just to have a basic survival and instead contribute to the political, social, socio-economic, technoiogical and environmental evolution of your country ?


I dont want anything free nor do I want citizens getting anything free in my country except what they get now. Capitalism gives poverty to some. Communism gives poverty to all. Been there done that.

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## jamahir

thetutle said:


> I can only guess, but I would say the goal is to prevent Russia expanding its borders as a primary goal. Regime change in Russia as a secondary goal.



You really think having traitors like Garry Kasparov in USA and hippies in Russia will enable regime change ? That having a for-Russia equivalent of the Transitional National Council, Syrian National Council, Guaido's "government in exile" etc will translate into an actual regime change in Russia of all places ? You will have to deal with the Communists too who are solidly behind this Russia operation in Ukraine.


----------



## TheNoob

kingQamaR said:


> Communism is by it nature a lie. In every communist nation that has ever stained this earth, there has been the workers..........and then, the Party members. The Party members were given benefits and comforts that no worker could ever hope to achieve on their own. It is a hypocritical mindset that was doomed from its inception.



Same can be said for capitalism. 
The rich get richer and the poor, poor.

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## thetutle

jamahir said:


> You really think having traitors like Garry Kasparov in USA and hippies in Russia will enable regime change ? That having a for-Russia equivalent of the Transitional National Council, Syrian National Council, Guaido's "government in exile" etc will translate into an actual regime change in Russia of all places ? You will have to deal with the Communists too who are solidly behind this Russia operation in Ukraine.


I dont think the west cares who replaces the current regime in russia, as long as they dont seek territorial expansion. Orthodox theocracy, communists, nationalists. makes no difference so long as they weaken russia. I would prefer communists take over. I would like poverty to return there. 

Maybe a pro western democracy emerges one day, if it does thats great. But noone really cares in the west either way. As long as russia stays weak and poor. 

Hopefully some Indian can take over and run the place into the ground. Make it like India.

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## kingQamaR

TheNoob said:


> Same can be said for capitalism.
> The rich get richer and the poor, poor.



a government powerful enough to give you "free things" is also powerful enough to take away. Capitalism gives free education, school sports, and we have many medical programs to cover the poor. What we don't have is limits on our ambitions, talents, and skills we choose to develop.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515274338278293507

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## Viet

thetutle said:


> I dont think the west cares who replaces the current regime in russia, as long as they dont seek territorial expansion. Orthodox theocracy, communists, nationalists. makes no difference so long as they weaken russia. I would prefer communists take over. I would like poverty to return there.
> 
> Maybe a pro western democracy emerges one day, if it does thats great. But noone really cares in the west either way. As long as russia stays weak and poor.
> 
> Hopefully some Indian can take over and run the place into the ground. Make it like India.


There is no comparison.

USSR had check and balance. There were politburo, party commission. Chruschov was removed without bloodshed. the current Russia has none.

Putin can loot russia to him rich, to make his comrades rich. He can start wars. He can bomb other countries. He can make Russia to pariah, make Russians to poor third world people. He controls gov, army, media, press, parliament, judicial institutions. There is nothing, nobody can stop him.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515301698457288710

Russia now has over 2,900 visually confirmed losses

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## thetutle

Viet said:


> There is no comparison.
> 
> USSR had check and balance. There were politburo, party commission. Chruschov was removed without bloodshed. the current Russia has none.
> 
> Putin can loot russia to him rich, to make his comrades rich. He can start wars. He can bomb other countries. He can make Russia to pariah, make Russians to poor third world people. He controls gov, army, media, press, parliament, judicial institutions. There is nothing, nobody can stop him.


yes thats a possibility. that noone has the strength to replace him. Thats ok, he will be rule a country that is more and more isolated.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Apollon said:


> Chernobyl released only 6kg and look at the effect.
> 
> That "destroy game" can be played from both sides


good emulate this by your materials


> The core melted down and two or more explosions ruptured the reactor core and destroyed the reactor building. This was immediately followed by an open-air reactor core fire. It released considerable airborne radioactive contamination for about nine days that precipitated onto other parts of the USSR and Western Europe, before finally ending on 4 May 1986.



and for what


> Chernobyl's health effects to the general population are uncertain. An excess of 15 childhood thyroid cancer deaths were documented as of 2011.[13][14] A United Nations committee found that to date fewer than 100 deaths have resulted from the fallout.[15]



in Chernobyl *0.4 kg of iodine-131, 27kg of cesium-137* *also vast amount of thallium* and all the noble gas inside the reactor released and now we reach the good part , do you knew how much of the nuclear fuel vaporized and released , well *6 ton , *yes 6 freaking ton not 6 kg


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515239048302010368

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## Viet

thetutle said:


> yes thats a possibility. that noone has the strength to replace him. Thats ok, he will be rule a country that is more and more isolated.


That’s problem if you put the fate of own country into a madman. Venezuela was rich until they voted for a bus driver as president. Russia fate is sealed. Putin will squeeze the lives of his own 144 million people into misery.


----------



## thetutle

Viet said:


> That’s problem if you put the fate of own country into a madman. Venezuela was rich until they voted for a bus driver as president. Russia fate is sealed. Putin will squeeze the lives of his own 144 million people into misery.


yes he will.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515239048302010368


This would be the best thing ever. Russia should start destroying American satellites right away. 

greatest move ever!


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515260575969914882


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515260792299524098

The Russian Nazis



thetutle said:


> yes he will.
> 
> 
> This would be the best thing ever. Russia should start destroying American satellites right away.
> 
> greatest move ever!




Elon would launch Starlinks faster and cheaper than Russia could ever hope to destroy them.

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## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> Elon would launch Starlinks faster and cheaper than Russia could ever hope to destroy them.


perhaps he will. but the retaliation will he gigantic.


----------



## lcloo

ahtan_china said:


> View attachment 834820


Which World was she talking about?


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515239048302010368


Putin's army cannot even fight a war in land. But these dimwitted troops want to fight a war in space?! That's rich

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515292460859203584


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515286410491797506

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515312993097109504

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## Adir-M

The Russia federation face huge amount of economic war that they didn't anticipate. They playing according to the Americans that are drying Thier economy and their army. This war will have huge impact on Russia not only in terms of sanctions.
The Russia arms sale will be reduce. Even friendly country will think twice before doing business with the Russian. Even if Russia succeed and take eastern Ukraine this war will not be over because the west will continue to arm the Ukrainian (it's small money if you compare it to the amount of money the Americans spent on basses outside usa). USA got exactly what they wanted and the Russian played according to thier game

1) More county will join nato like finland and Sweden.
2)More European countries will higher up there spending on arms sals.
3) United European front.
4) crashing Russia economy.
5) backlash inside Russia

I really think it's the last Days of Putin

Sleepy Joe for Once did the right thing

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## Wood

Adir-M said:


> The Russia federation face huge amount of economic war that they didn't anticipate. They playing according to the Americans that are drying Thier economy and their army. This war will have huge impact on Russia not only in terms of sanctions.
> The Russia arms sale will be reduce. Even friendly country will think twice before doing business with the Russian. Even if Russia succeed and take eastern Ukraine this war will not be over because the west will continue to arm the Ukrainian (it's small money if you compare it to the amount of money the Americans spent on basses outside usa). USA got exactly what they wanted and the Russian played according to thier game
> 
> 1) More county will join nato like finland and Sweden.
> 2)More European countries will higher up there spending on arms sals.
> 3) United European front.
> 4) crashing Russia economy.
> 5) backlash inside Russia
> 
> I really think it's the last Days of Putin
> 
> Sleepy Joe for Once did the right thing


Joe was given a gift that he did not anticipate. After the debacle in withdrawing from Afghanistan, this was a welcome prize from Uncle Putin

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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515322170167246857

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## thetutle

Wood said:


> Joe was given a gift that he did not anticipate. After the debacle in withdrawing from Afghanistan, this was a welcome prize from Uncle Putin


It was an amazing gift and every hawk in the defence department and military industrial complex got a massive hard on on February 24th. 

I simply cannot believe Putin did this and did not succeed. I thought he would do it eventually and have a massive success. But looks like pentagon and CIA were waaaaay ahead of us all and built up the ukranian army up to such a level where Putin was bound to fail. 

I can not believe Putin fell for the trap.

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## ahtan_china

Yellen threat China again

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## Ali_Baba

> *SpaceX has already deployed 1,469 Starlink satellites into orbit and is targeting a grand total of 30,000*



Russia does not have enough anti-satellites missiles to take out Starlink.

Russians are really really annoyed that Ukraine sank their flagship - if any more confirmation is required that it was a missile strike by Ukraine "that what done it for the flagship of the black sea fleet" then you have been living under a tree!


----------



## Viet

Adir-M said:


> The Russia federation face huge amount of economic war that they didn't anticipate. They playing according to the Americans that are drying Thier economy and their army. This war will have huge impact on Russia not only in terms of sanctions.
> The Russia arms sale will be reduce. Even friendly country will think twice before doing business with the Russian. Even if Russia succeed and take eastern Ukraine this war will not be over because the west will continue to arm the Ukrainian (it's small money if you compare it to the amount of money the Americans spent on basses outside usa). USA got exactly what they wanted and the Russian played according to thier game
> 
> 1) More county will join nato like finland and Sweden.
> 2)More European countries will higher up there spending on arms sals.
> 3) United European front.
> 4) crashing Russia economy.
> 5) backlash inside Russia
> 
> I really think it's the last Days of Putin
> 
> Sleepy Joe for Once did the right thing


Everything goes very well according to plan. Even the sinking of Mosdwa by Ukraine antiship missiles. All participated.

- Vladimir Putin

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515326369231740933

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515288773797548042

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## Bengal71

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Chechen mujahidiin
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515064722894336010
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515064440672210947
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515064265920626700



They are not mujahideen.

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## thetutle

Bengal71 said:


> They are not mujahideen.


Such a good point. These people are fighting for the territorial expansion of a nationalist orthodox christian power. How could they under anyone's definition be mujahideen.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515307991683239942

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515281862851182593


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## Wood

thetutle said:


> Such a good point. These people are fighting for the territorial expansion of a nationalist orthodox christian power. How could they under anyone's definition be mujahideen.


The Chechen vassal Kingdom exists to satisfy Putin's whim. Calling this Chechen army as Mujahideen is to say that Putin is caliph

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515317694131630083

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515231762414067715

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514921053054713856


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## thetutle

Wood said:


> The Chechen vassal Kingdom exists to satisfy Putin's whim. Calling this Chechen army as Mujahideen is to say that Putin is caliph


not even a "kingdom" more like a "dutchy". Unfortunately to some lost souls here they do look at him like a caliph. 

But once they snap and betray Putin, when things start going bad for Russia, they will then become the mujahideen, inshAllah.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514986138234023947

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514909540977893383

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514894781536563203

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514643382764978178


----------



## Vergennes

Rest in pieces


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515346717515866115


----------



## thetutle

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514643382764978178


yes russia should put nuclear missiles in Cuba. How stupid can some suggestions be?


----------



## Viet

Germany expects 1 million Ukrainian refugees. Should the war escalate the number will increase dramatically, probably to 3 millions. Ukraine refugees are offered very generous packages. Also, the government offers generous alyssum for Russian deserters.










Liveblog: ++ Johnson sagt bewaffnete Fahrzeuge zu ++


Großbritanniens Premier will der Ukraine bewaffnete Fahrzeuge schicken. Nach ukrainischen Angaben sind heute 1449 Menschen über Fluchtkorridore in Sicherheit gebracht worden. Der Liveblog vom Samstag zum Nachlesen.




www.tagesschau.de


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Azov fighter captured in Mariupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515332018472726543

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## lcloo

ahtan_china said:


> Yellen threat China again
> 
> View attachment 834896
> 
> 
> View attachment 834893


US shall end the trade war with China first, abolish all sanctions against China and Chinese companies, including Huawei. Only after than shall US talk to China.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515333147625504773

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515333147625504773



It will be as effective as the first one.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515328437963079692


Vergennes said:


> It will be as effective as the first one.
> 
> View attachment 834911




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515356037787885568

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## jamal18

Wood said:


> The Chechen vassal Kingdom exists to satisfy Putin's whim. Calling this Chechen army as Mujahideen is to say that Putin is caliph


These particular Chechens are the one's who swapped sides and went over to Russia. They fought their fellow muslim Chechens against Chechen independence.

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## Wood

Vergennes said:


> Rest in pieces
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515346717515866115


I recall how it was surprising news to hear about Russian generals dying in this war. That was merely a few weeks ago. Now such tweets do not even get retweets 🤦‍♂️


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> It will be as effective as the first one.
> 
> View attachment 834911




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515303384533938192


----------



## jamal18

lcloo said:


> US shall end the trade war with China first, abolish all sanctions against China and Chinese companies, including Huawei. Only after than shall US talk to China.


I think it's too late for that. The neo-con warmongers have no reverse gear. 

It amazes me how incompetent thay are. Only a few months ago they are threatening war with China, now they are _ordering _China to support them against Russia. As even the Russians say, the ultimate target is China.

What's peoples views of an invasion of Taiwan?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515359579156230146

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## mmr

jamal18 said:


> These particular Chechens are the one's who swapped sides and went over to Russia. They fought their fellow muslim Chechens against Chechen independence.


They are good lapdogs.

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## Ali_Baba

Half the reason why we have so many issues is because of Germany : https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-n...-humiliated-scholzs-toughest-week-chancellor/


----------



## jamal18

British volunteer/mercenary captured in Mariupol.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515358654781964289

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## Wergeland

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515264070227841027
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515266076233371649
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515262220418134020



There is really no competition when you thinkn of the numbers. NATO is overwhemingly stronger than Russia in economical, hardware and manpower. Thats why Russia never will dare to threaten NATO directly.



jamal18 said:


> British volunteer/mercenary captured in Mariupol.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515358654781964289



Will some colored UK minister dare to revoke his UK Passport, like they did to Uk citizens who fought in Syria?

Or maybe hes a good terrorist cuz hes white?

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## jamahir

jamal18 said:


> British volunteer/mercenary captured in Mariupol.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515358654781964289



What do you think should be done with him ? The Russians have released captured Ukrainian soldiers on condition that they stop participation in the war. But this one is a foreigner.


----------



## Wergeland

jamal18 said:


> These particular Chechens are the one's who swapped sides and went over to Russia. They fought their fellow muslim Chechens against Chechen independence.



It was a disagreement between a dominantly ethnic Chechen faction led by Kadyrov Sr. and a faction of Chechens who had many foreign fighters in their ranks. It is said that the Kadyrov faction was afraid Chechen politics would be dominated by foreign fighters so they allied themselves with Russia, which of course played a good game. In the end Kayrov Sr got his own fiefdom and Russia prevented its southern oblasts and the federation itself from further disintergration.


----------



## jamal18

Wergeland said:


> Will some colored UK minister dare to revoke his UK Passport, like they did to Uk citizens who fought in Syria?
> 
> Or maybe hes a good terrorist cuz hes white?


There is a UK law that prohibits anybody fighting in a war that the UK is not involved in. Essentially a prison sentence.

What's the guess that it won't apply in this case?


----------



## Wergeland

jamal18 said:


> There is a UK law that prohibits anybody fighting in a war that the UK is not involved in. Essentially a prison sentence.
> 
> What's the guess that it won't apply in this case?



I am willing to bet 100 bucks these white dudes fighting in Ukraine would get a warm welcome when they return home.

Dont be surprised if UK foreign service try to even get them home through diplomatic channels.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515310751124176899


----------



## Viet

This thing is not going well according to plan.

Bad weather, heavy rains delay russian great offensive against Ukrainian defense positions in Donbas.

The ground is too soft for tanks and heavy infantry.





Wolfgang Schwan/Anadolu Agency via Getty Images









Rainy weather could give Ukrainian military a boost in Donbas region






theweek.com


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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515374610157608966

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## Vergennes

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515374610157608966



"Russia threatens to attack West weapon shipments". Amazing fact is the west is supplying billions dollar worth of weapons to Ukraine (and the flow still continues) which have killed thousands of Russian troops and yet they can't do sh/t about it.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515289568257400832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515306634964262921

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515287707592888321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515295173579661318


----------



## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> "Russia threatens to attack West weapon shipments". Amazing fact is the west is supplying billions dollar worth of weapons to Ukraine (and the flow still continues) which have killed thousands of Russian troops and yet they can't do sh/t about it.




Because they know if they hit US or NATO soldiers/territory then s**t hits the fan royally for them.

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> Because they know if they hit US or NATO soldiers/territory then s**t hits the fan royally for them.



The only thing that are saving the Russians from getting trashed by NATO are their nuclear weapons nothing else.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515088362549362690

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## The SC

The Ilyich Iron and Steel Works in Mariupol was completely liberated from Ukrainian nationalists. This was reported in the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514869287508447234

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515289452964417541

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## Piotr

Russian forces cleaning Ilyich factory in Mariupol from US Nazi Bandera forces.






But according to Anglosaxon trolls Russia run out of ammo and fuel

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## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514986138234023947
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514909540977893383
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514894781536563203
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514643382764978178


This guy is not a German journalist. He is a German blogger. He obviously gets pays from Moscow for every faked news he posts.
By the way before you can call yourself journalist you must have an university degree in journalism in Germany.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515172427193626624

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## Piotr

For USA and Brussels the Ukraine is just a cannon fodder.​​US, EU sacrificing Ukraine to ‘weaken Russia’: fmr. NATO adviser​


Aaron Maté·April 15, 2022

Former Swiss intelligence officer and NATO adviser Jacques Baud on the roots of the Ukraine-Russia war and its growing dangers.​

As the Russia-Ukraine war enters a new phase, former Swiss intelligence officer, senior United Nations official, and NATO advisor Jacques Baud analyzes the conflict and argues that the US and its allies are exploiting Ukraine in a longstanding campaign to bleed its Russian neighbor.


*Guest*: Jacques Baud. Former intelligence officer with the Swiss Strategic Intelligence Service who has served in a number of senior security and advisory positions at NATO, the United Nations, and with the Swiss military.






*TRANSCRIPT*​
*AARON MATÉ:* Welcome to Pushback. I’m Aaron Maté. Joining me is Jacques Baud. He has served in a number of senior security and advisory positions at NATO, the UN, and with the Swiss military. He is also a former strategic intelligence officer with the Swiss Strategic Intelligence Service. Jacques, thank you for joining me.


*JACQUES BAUD:* I thank you for inviting me.


*AARON MATÉ:* Let me just start by asking you to talk more about your background and how it has informed your visibility into the crisis in Ukraine.


*JACQUES BAUD:* Well, as you just said, I’m a strategic intelligence officer. I used to be in charge of the Warsaw Pact forces in strategic…that was during the Cold War, but still, I have a good visibility on what’s going on in Eastern Europe. I used to speak and read Russian as well, so that gives me some access to some documents. And recently I had been seconded to NATO as head of the struggle against proliferation of small arms. And in that capacity, I was involved in several projects from 2014 onwards with NATO in Ukraine. And so, I know the context quite well. I was also monitoring the possible influx of small armaments in the Donbas in 2014. And I have also worked—because in my previous assignment in the UN, I used to work on the restoration of armored forces, so when the Ukrainian armed forces got some problems with personnel issues, with suicide, with all these kind of things that you had in 2014, also problems in recruiting military—I was asked to participate on the NATO side on several projects in restoring Ukrainian armed forces. And so that’s a little bit, in a nutshell, my background regarding this area.


*AARON MATÉ:* You’ve written a lengthy article which I will link to in the show notes for this segment, and you lay out the causes of the Ukraine conflict in three major areas. There is the strategic level, the expansion of NATO; the political level, which is what you call the Western refusal to implement the Minsk agreements; and operationally, the continuous and repeated attacks on the civilian population of the Donbas over the past years and the dramatic increase in late February 2022.


Let me ask you to start there. Talk about what you call the dramatic increase on civilians inside the Donbas in February, the period that led to the Russian invasion, immediate period, and how this escalation of attacks, as you say, helped lead to this war, this Russian invasion.


*JACQUES BAUD:* Well, I think we have to understand, as you know, that the war in fact hasn’t started on 24 February this year. It started already in 2014. But I think that the Russians always hoped that this conflict could be solved on a political level, in fact; I mean the Minsk agreements and all that. So, basically what led to the decision to launch an offensive in the Donbas was not what happened since 2014. There was a trigger for that, and the trigger is two things; I mean, it came in two phases, if you want.


The first is the decision and the law adopted by [Volodymyr] Zelenskyy in March 2021—that means last year—to reconquer Crimea by force, and that started a build-up of the Russian armored for…not the Russian, [rather] the Ukrainian armored forces in the southern parts of the country. And so, I think the Russians were perfectly aware of this build-up. They were aware that an operation was to be launched against the Republics of the Donbas, but they did not know when, and, of course, they were just observing that, and then came the real trigger.


You may remember that—I think it was on the 16th of February—Joe Biden, during a press conference, told that he knew that the Russians would attack. And how would he know that? Because I still have some contacts, and nobody actually thought that the Russians—before end of January, beginning of February—I think nobody thought that the Russians would attack Ukraine. So, there must have been something that made Biden aware that the Russians would attack. And this something, in fact, is the intensification of the artillery shelling of the Donbas starting on the 16th of February, and this increase in the shelling was observed, in fact, by the [Border] Observer Mission of the OSCE [Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe], and they recorded this increase of violation, and it’s a massive violation. I mean, we are talking about something that is about 30 times more than what it used to be, because the last eight years you had a lot of violations from both sides, by the way. But suddenly on the 16th of February you had a massive increase of violation on the Ukrainian side. So, for the Russians, Vladimir Putin in particular, that was the sign that the operation—the Ukrainian operation—was about to start.


And then everything started; I mean, all the events came very quickly. That means that if we look at the figures, you can see that there’s, as I said, a massive increase from the 16th-17th, and then it reached kind of a maximum on the 18th of February, and that was continuing.


And the Russian parliament, the Duma, also was aware of this possible offensive, and they passed a resolution asking Vladimir Putin to recognize the independence of the two self-proclaimed Republics in the Donbas. And that’s what Putin decided to do on the 21st of February. And just after adopting the decrees, the law recognizing the independence of the two Republics, Vladimir Putin signed a friendship and assistance agreement with those two Republics. Why did he do that? So that would allow the Republics to ask for military help in case of attack. And that’s why, on the 24th of February when Vladimir Putin decided to launch the offensive, it could invoke Article 51 of the UN Charter that provides for assistance in case of attack.


*AARON MATÉ:* And as you noted, the OSCE documented a big increase in ceasefire violations, artillery firing on the rebel-held side, but do you think, based on what you observed of the positioning of Ukrainian troops, do you think that the threat of an imminent invasion or assault by the Ukrainian forces was real? Can you gauge that from how they were positioned on the other side of the front line?


*JACQUES BAUD:* Yes. Absolutely. I mean, we had reports, and those reports were available during the last couple of months. Since last year we knew that the Ukrainians were building up their forces in the south of the country, not on the eastern border with Russia but on the border with the contact line with Donbas. And, as a matter of fact, as we have seen from the 24th of February, the Russians had almost no resistance in the start of the offensive, especially in the north. And so, they could, what they have done since then, they could surround the Ukrainian forces in the south, in the southeast part of the country—that means between the two Republics of the Donbas and the Ukraine mainland, if you want. And that’s where the bulk of the Ukrainian forces are today. And according to the…that’s exactly the Russian doctrine to fight, I mean operational doctrine. Their main offensive was on the south, clearly, because the objective stated by Vladimir Putin—we can probably come back on these details later on—but this was demilitarization and denazification.


Both objectives, in fact, were about to be done or to be reached in the south of the country, and that’s where the main efforts of the offensive was done. In the offensive order, the effort against Kiev is a so-called secondary effort, and it had, as a fact, you had two functions basically. First of all, to put some pressure on the political leadership in Kiev because the name of the game is to bring the Ukrainians to the negotiations. That was the first objective of this second effort.


The second objective of this second effort was to bind or to pin down the rest of the Ukrainian armored forces so that they could not reinforce the main forces which are in the Donbas area. And that worked quite well. So that means that the Russians could surround, as I said, the main forces, the bulk of the armed forces—the Ukrainian armed forces. Once they have achieved that they could withdraw some troops from Kiev, and that’s what they have done since end of March. They have pulled several units in order to reinforce what they want; I mean their own forces to carry on under the main battle in the Donbas area. So now they are pulling, and they have pulled these troops from the Kiev area, and these troops will now help to flank for the vanguard, the offensive against the main forces in the Donbas. And that’s what some called the ‘mother of all battles’ that is currently going on in the Donbas area, where you have—nobody knows exactly the number of Ukrainian troops; estimates vary from sixty thousand to eighty thousand who are surrounded—and the forces would be cut in smaller cauldrons and then destroyed or neutralized.


*AARON MATÉ:* It’s pretty clear to me that Zelenskyy’s government had no interest in serious diplomacy on all the critical issues that could have avoided a war, and I think the main factor is what I presume to be US pressure behind the scenes, which we can’t fully prove now. But I imagine evidence of that might come out later. And certainly, the open hostility of Ukraine’s far right, who essentially threatened Zelenskyy’s life if he made peace with Russia. And these threats have dogged him throughout his presidency and continued right up to the eve of the invasion, and it led to people like his top security official saying in late January that the implementation of the Minsk accords would lead to Ukraine’s destruction—after Zelenskyy was elected on a platform of implementing Minsk—and that carried over to the final talks on implementing the Minsk accords that were brokered by Germany and France.


At those talks in February, Zelenskyy’s government all of a sudden refused to even speak to the representatives of the rebels, which makes an accord possible. And meanwhile you had developments like this, which we just learned about from _The Wall Street Journal,_ which was that the German chancellor [Olaf] Scholz on February 19th told Zelenskyy that, quote, “Ukraine should renounce its NATO aspirations and declare neutrality as part of a wider European security deal between the West and Russia.” And this pact Scholz proposed would be signed by Biden and Putin, but Zelenskyy rejected this—rejected out of hand.


But my question is, because I think it’s pretty conclusive that the Zelenskyy-Ukraine side sabotaged diplomacy, but what about Russia? Do you think Russia exhausted all of its diplomatic options to avoid a war? For example, why not go to the UN and ask for a peacekeeping force in the Donbas? And second of all, if the aim is to protect the people of the Donbas, why invade far beyond the Donbas and not just go there?


*JACQUES BAUD:* Well, I think the Russians have totally lost faith in the West. I think that’s the main thing. They don’t trust the West anymore, and that’s why I think now they rely on a total victory on the military side in order to have some benefits in the negotiation.


I think Zelenskyy…I’m not sure exactly if he’s so reluctant to have peace. I think he cannot do it. I think from the very beginning he was caught between his…remember that he was elected with the idea of achieving peace in the Donbas. That was his objective; that was his program as president. But I think the West—and I would say the Americans and the British didn’t want this peace to occur. And of course, the Germans and the French who were the guarantors of the Minsk agreement for the Ukrainian side, they never really implemented this—their function. I mean, they have never done their job, clearly. And especially France, which is simultaneously a member of the Security Council. Because I will just remind you that the Minsk agreements were also part of a resolution of the Security Council. So, meaning that they have not only the signature of the different parties that was done in Minsk, but you have also the members of the Security Council who were responsible for implementation of the agreement, and nobody wanted to have this agreement made. So that means that, I think, there was a lot of pressure on Zelenskyy so that he wouldn’t even talk to the representatives of the two breakaway Republics.


And after that we have seen, by the way, that we have several indications that Zelenskyy was not completely, or is not completely, in control of what’s going on in Ukraine. I think the extreme, let’s say, nationalist extreme right—I don’t know exactly what is the right term because it’s a mixture of everything—but these forces definitely prevent him, or prevented him, so far to do anything. And we can see also that he’s back and forth regarding peace. As soon as he started, you may remember that at the end of February, as soon as Zelenskyy indicated that he might be willing to start negotiations, this was the time where these negotiations were to take place in Belarus. Within hours after Zelenskyy decided that, the European Union came with a decision providing for half a billion arms to Ukraine, meaning that the Americans, certainly, but I think the West as a whole, made every possible effort to prevent a political solution to the conflict, and I think the Russians are aware of that.


Now we have also to understand that the Russians have a different understanding of how to wage a war on the Western powers, especially the US. That means that in the West we tend to, if we negotiate, we negotiate up to a certain point and then negotiations stop, and we start war. And that’s war, period. In the Russian way of doing things, it’s different. You start a war, but you never leave the diplomatic track, and you go on both ways, in fact. You put mental pressure and you try to achieve an objective, also with diplomatic means. This is very much a *Clausewitzian* approach to war—when [Prussian general and military theorist *Carl von] Clausewitz, *as you know, defined war as the continuation of politics with other means.


That’s exactly how the Russians see that. That’s why during the whole offensive, and even at the very beginning of the offensive, they started, or they indicated they were willing, to negotiate. So, the Russians certainly want to negotiate, but they don’t trust the Western countries—I mean the West at large—to facilitate that negotiation. And that’s the reason why they didn’t come to the Security Council. By the way, they know that, probably, because, as you know, this physical war that we witness now is part of a broader war that was started years ago against Russia, and I think, in fact, Ukraine is just…I mean, nobody is interested in Ukraine, I think. The target, the aim, the objective is to weaken Russia, and once it will be done with Russia, they will do the same with China, and you can already see. I mean, we have seen that now, the Ukrainian crisis has overshadowed the rest, but you could have a very similar scenario happening with Taiwan, for instance. So, the Chinese are aware of that. That’s the reason why they don’t want to give up their, let’s say, relationship with Russia.


Now, the name of the game is weakening Russia, and you know that there have been several studies done by the Rand Corporation on extending Russia, overextending Russia, and so on, and where the whole scenario is…




*AARON MATÉ:* Just to explain that for people who aren’t familiar with it, Rand is a Pentagon-type think tank, and they did a study in 2019 looking at all the different ways in which the US could overextend and unbalance Russia, and the top option was to send weapons to Ukraine to fuel a conflict there that could draw Russia in, which is exactly what’s happened.


*JACQUES BAUD:* Absolutely. And I think that this is a complete design for weakening Russia, and that’s exactly what we see unfolding right now. We could have anticipated that, and I think Putin anticipated that. And I think he understood that, if on the end of February, I mean, on the 24th of February, or let’s say just before because he had to make the decision before, but in the days before deciding on the offensive, he understood that he could not do nothing. He had to do something. The Russian public opinion would never have understood why Russia would remain just observing the Donbas Republics being invaded or destroyed by Ukraine. So, nobody would have understood that. So, he was obliged to go. And then, I think…and that’s what, if you remember what he said on the 24th of February, he said regardless of what he would do, the amount of sanctions he will receive would be the same. So basically, he knew that the slightest intervention in the Donbas would trigger a massive launch of sanctions, so he knew that. So, then he decided, ‘Okay, then I have to go for the maximal option,’ because one option would have been just to reinforce, don’t mess with the Republics and just defend the Republics on the line of contact. But he decided to go for the larger option, which is to destroy those forces that threatened Donbas.


And that’s where you have those two objectives. Demilitarization, which is not the whole demilitarization of all Ukraine, but it was to suppress the military threat that was on the Donbas; that’s the main objective of that. There’s a lot of misunderstanding of what he said and, of course, he was not very clear, but that’s part of the Russian way of communicating and doing things. They want to keep options open, and that’s the reason why they say the minimum things and they just say what’s necessary. And this is exactly what Putin meant on the 21st, what he said about suppressing the military threat against the Donbas. Denazification had nothing to do with killing Zelenskyy or destroying the leadership in Kiev. That was definitely not the idea, and, as a matter of fact, as I said, the main way they conceive war is to combine a physical action and diplomatic action. So that means that in such a way of doing you have to keep a leadership and you have to keep them in order to negotiate, and that’s why there was no way you would kill or destroy the leadership in Kiev.


So, denazification was basically not about the 2.5 percent of the extreme right in Kiev. That was about the 100 percent of Azov people in Mariupol and Kharkov, and this kind of thing. So, we tend to misunderstand because some people said, ‘Well, but, you know, why denazify? Because there is only 2.5 percent of political rightwing parties, only 2.5 percent or something like that, so it’s meaningless. So, why denazify? It makes no sense.’ But it was not about that. It was definitely about those groups that were in fact recruited from 2014 by the Ukrainians in order to, let’s say, I would say pacify or control. I don’t know exactly what’s the right word for that, but to fight in Donbas. These people were extremists, fanatics, and these people were dangerous.


*AARON MATÉ:* And one of the points you make in your article, which I didn’t know, is that part of the reason why Ukraine had this need for militias, far-right militias and foreign mercenaries, is because of a high rate of defection inside its own military ranks, people not wanting to serve, and even defecting to the other side of the rebellion in the Donbas.


*JACQUES BAUD:* Exactly. In fact, I noticed that, as I told you, I was in NATO and was monitoring the influx of weapons in the Donbas, and what we noticed is that we couldn’t identify import of weapons or export of weapons from the Russian side to the Donbas. But what we could see is that you had a lot of Ukrainian units who defected, in fact, and complete battalions. And in 2014, most of the heavy artillery that the Donbas gained were from defectors. The whole units defected with ammunition and people and all that. The reason is that the Ukrainian army was based on a territorial…was manned and organized on a territorial way. That means you had a lot of Russian-speak[ers] in the armed forces. Once they were sent to fight in the Donbas, they didn’t even want to fight their own colleagues and Russian-speaking people, so they preferred to defect.


And in addition to that you had in 2014, I mean in 2014 to 2017, in that period the leadership of the Ukrainian army was extremely poor. You had a lot of corruption. I’m not sure that the military was prepared for such a kind of war, in fact, because the war that was fought at that time by the rebels was very similar to what you can see in the Middle East today, or in the last years. That made very mobile units moving around very rapidly, much faster than the heavy units that the Ukrainian army had, and, as a result, if we see the pattern of the different battles that were fought in 2014, 2015, you could see that the Ukrainians could never lead. They had never the initiative. The initiative was always with the rebels. And it was not guerrilla. That’s important to say. It was kind of extremely mobile warfare. And in addition to that you had, I think, the army was not really prepared to fight in general. So, you had a lot of suicides, you had a lot of alcohol problems, you had a lot of accidents, you had a lot of murders within the Ukrainian army.


And that led a lot of young Ukrainians to leave the country, because they didn’t want to join the army. And what I’m saying is, I mean, it was recorded and reported by official reports in the UK and the US, I think. They made some very interesting reports on the low rate of recruitment of individuals, because people didn’t want simply to join the army. And that’s the reason why NATO was involved, and I was involved in such a program, trying to reshuffle the image of the army and find solutions to improve the recruitment condition of the army, and things like that.


But the solutions that were provided by NATO were in fact institutional solutions that would take time, and in order to compensate with lack of personnel and probably to have more aggressive military personnel, they started to use internationalists and mercenaries, as a matter of fact. Nobody knows exactly the number of these paramilitaries or extreme rights militias. Reuters put the figure at one hundred thousand. I’m not able to verify that, but that was a figure given by Reuters. And that seems to fit what we can observe now in the different regions of the country. So, these paramilitaries took a major role not in mobile warfare, and I would say [not in] the normal field warfare, but they were used in maintaining order within cities. And that’s exactly what you have today in Mariupol, for instance, where you had those people, because they are not equipped for field operations. They are equipped for urban warfare. They have light equipment, they have some armored vehicles, but they don’t really have tanks, anything like this.


So, this is definitely units that are meant for urban warfare. That’s what they do in major cities. And these guys are extremely fanatic, we can say, and they are extremely dangerous. And that explains the way Mariupol, the battles and the extremely brutal fights that you have in Mariupol as an example, and we probably will see the same thing in Kharkov, for instance.


*AARON MATÉ:* As we wrap, I want to ask you about some of the recent atrocities that we’ve seen reported. There were reports of mass civilian killings by Russia inside the town of Bucha and also killings of Ukrainian forces, and then you had the attack on the train station in Kramatorsk. I’m wondering if you’ve evaluated both of these incidents and what you make of them.


*JACQUES BAUD:* Well, there are two things in that. And the first is that the indication we have on both incidents to me indicates that the Russians were not responsible for that. But, in fact, we don’t know. I think that’s what we have to say. I mean, if we’re honest, we don’t know what happened. The indications we have, everything, all the elements we have tends to point at Ukrainian responsibilities, but we don’t know.


What disturbs me in the whole thing is not so much that we don’t know, because in war there’s always such situations, there are always situations where you don’t know exactly who is really responsible. What disturbs me is that Western leaders started to make decisions without knowing what’s going on and what happened. And that’s something that disturbs me quite deeply, that before having any result of any kind of inquiry, of investigation, and I mean international, impartial investigation, without having that we start already to take sanctions, to make decisions, and I think that illustrates how the whole decision-making process in the West was perverted. Since February or even before, in fact, because we had a similar thing after the hijacking—or not hijacking, by the way, it was not a hijacking—but the incident in Belarus with this Ryanair flight. You may remember last May, last year, that people started to react just minutes after the incident was reported in the press, even they didn’t know what was going on! So, that’s this way of doing from the political leadership in Europe, I mean the European Union, but also in European countries. That disturbs me as an intelligence officer. How can you make a decision with such impact on populations or on whole countries that disturbs even our own economies? So, it tends to backfire on us. But we take decisions without even knowing what’s going on, and that, I think, indicates an extremely immature leadership that we have in the West in general. That’s certainly the case in the US, but I think in this example of the Ukraine crisis shows that the European leadership is not better than what you have in the US. It’s probably even worse, I think, sometimes. So, that’s what should worry us, that you have people deciding based on nothing, and that’s extremely dangerous.


*AARON MATÉ:* Jacques Baud, he is a former strategic intelligence officer with the Swiss Strategic Intelligence Service, also served in a number of senior security and advisory positions at NATO, the UN, and the Swiss military. Jacques, thank you very much for your time and insight.


*JACQUES BAUD:* Thank you for everything. Thank you.

https://thegrayzone.com/2022/04/15/us-eu-sacrificing-ukraine-to-weaken-russia-fmr-nato-adviser/

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515266450201718785

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## Piotr

Lugansk Armor Column Heading to Popasna City For Battle​








Lugansk Armor Column Heading to Popasna City For Battle







www.bitchute.com

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> The only thing that are saving the Russians from getting trashed by NATO are their nuclear weapons nothing else.




Russia has 3,000+ losses in less than 2 months of warfare. You can imagine the rate of losses for Russia if US cruise missiles, air power, and heavy guided artillery were in play.

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## Viet

Piotr said:


> For USA and Brussels the Ukraine is just a cannon fodder.​​US, EU sacrificing Ukraine to ‘weaken Russia’: fmr. NATO adviser​
> 
> 
> Aaron Maté·April 15, 2022
> 
> Former Swiss intelligence officer and NATO adviser Jacques Baud on the roots of the Ukraine-Russia war and its growing dangers.​
> 
> As the Russia-Ukraine war enters a new phase, former Swiss intelligence officer, senior United Nations official, and NATO advisor Jacques Baud analyzes the conflict and argues that the US and its allies are exploiting Ukraine in a longstanding campaign to bleed its Russian neighbor.
> 
> 
> *Guest*: Jacques Baud. Former intelligence officer with the Swiss Strategic Intelligence Service who has served in a number of senior security and advisory positions at NATO, the United Nations, and with the Swiss military.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *TRANSCRIPT*​
> *AARON MATÉ:* Welcome to Pushback. I’m Aaron Maté. Joining me is Jacques Baud. He has served in a number of senior security and advisory positions at NATO, the UN, and with the Swiss military. He is also a former strategic intelligence officer with the Swiss Strategic Intelligence Service. Jacques, thank you for joining me.
> 
> 
> *JACQUES BAUD:* I thank you for inviting me.
> 
> 
> *AARON MATÉ:* Let me just start by asking you to talk more about your background and how it has informed your visibility into the crisis in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> *JACQUES BAUD:* Well, as you just said, I’m a strategic intelligence officer. I used to be in charge of the Warsaw Pact forces in strategic…that was during the Cold War, but still, I have a good visibility on what’s going on in Eastern Europe. I used to speak and read Russian as well, so that gives me some access to some documents. And recently I had been seconded to NATO as head of the struggle against proliferation of small arms. And in that capacity, I was involved in several projects from 2014 onwards with NATO in Ukraine. And so, I know the context quite well. I was also monitoring the possible influx of small armaments in the Donbas in 2014. And I have also worked—because in my previous assignment in the UN, I used to work on the restoration of armored forces, so when the Ukrainian armed forces got some problems with personnel issues, with suicide, with all these kind of things that you had in 2014, also problems in recruiting military—I was asked to participate on the NATO side on several projects in restoring Ukrainian armed forces. And so that’s a little bit, in a nutshell, my background regarding this area.
> 
> 
> *AARON MATÉ:* You’ve written a lengthy article which I will link to in the show notes for this segment, and you lay out the causes of the Ukraine conflict in three major areas. There is the strategic level, the expansion of NATO; the political level, which is what you call the Western refusal to implement the Minsk agreements; and operationally, the continuous and repeated attacks on the civilian population of the Donbas over the past years and the dramatic increase in late February 2022.
> 
> 
> Let me ask you to start there. Talk about what you call the dramatic increase on civilians inside the Donbas in February, the period that led to the Russian invasion, immediate period, and how this escalation of attacks, as you say, helped lead to this war, this Russian invasion.
> 
> 
> *JACQUES BAUD:* Well, I think we have to understand, as you know, that the war in fact hasn’t started on 24 February this year. It started already in 2014. But I think that the Russians always hoped that this conflict could be solved on a political level, in fact; I mean the Minsk agreements and all that. So, basically what led to the decision to launch an offensive in the Donbas was not what happened since 2014. There was a trigger for that, and the trigger is two things; I mean, it came in two phases, if you want.
> 
> 
> The first is the decision and the law adopted by [Volodymyr] Zelenskyy in March 2021—that means last year—to reconquer Crimea by force, and that started a build-up of the Russian armored for…not the Russian, [rather] the Ukrainian armored forces in the southern parts of the country. And so, I think the Russians were perfectly aware of this build-up. They were aware that an operation was to be launched against the Republics of the Donbas, but they did not know when, and, of course, they were just observing that, and then came the real trigger.
> 
> 
> You may remember that—I think it was on the 16th of February—Joe Biden, during a press conference, told that he knew that the Russians would attack. And how would he know that? Because I still have some contacts, and nobody actually thought that the Russians—before end of January, beginning of February—I think nobody thought that the Russians would attack Ukraine. So, there must have been something that made Biden aware that the Russians would attack. And this something, in fact, is the intensification of the artillery shelling of the Donbas starting on the 16th of February, and this increase in the shelling was observed, in fact, by the [Border] Observer Mission of the OSCE [Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe], and they recorded this increase of violation, and it’s a massive violation. I mean, we are talking about something that is about 30 times more than what it used to be, because the last eight years you had a lot of violations from both sides, by the way. But suddenly on the 16th of February you had a massive increase of violation on the Ukrainian side. So, for the Russians, Vladimir Putin in particular, that was the sign that the operation—the Ukrainian operation—was about to start.
> 
> 
> And then everything started; I mean, all the events came very quickly. That means that if we look at the figures, you can see that there’s, as I said, a massive increase from the 16th-17th, and then it reached kind of a maximum on the 18th of February, and that was continuing.
> 
> 
> And the Russian parliament, the Duma, also was aware of this possible offensive, and they passed a resolution asking Vladimir Putin to recognize the independence of the two self-proclaimed Republics in the Donbas. And that’s what Putin decided to do on the 21st of February. And just after adopting the decrees, the law recognizing the independence of the two Republics, Vladimir Putin signed a friendship and assistance agreement with those two Republics. Why did he do that? So that would allow the Republics to ask for military help in case of attack. And that’s why, on the 24th of February when Vladimir Putin decided to launch the offensive, it could invoke Article 51 of the UN Charter that provides for assistance in case of attack.
> 
> 
> *AARON MATÉ:* And as you noted, the OSCE documented a big increase in ceasefire violations, artillery firing on the rebel-held side, but do you think, based on what you observed of the positioning of Ukrainian troops, do you think that the threat of an imminent invasion or assault by the Ukrainian forces was real? Can you gauge that from how they were positioned on the other side of the front line?
> 
> 
> *JACQUES BAUD:* Yes. Absolutely. I mean, we had reports, and those reports were available during the last couple of months. Since last year we knew that the Ukrainians were building up their forces in the south of the country, not on the eastern border with Russia but on the border with the contact line with Donbas. And, as a matter of fact, as we have seen from the 24th of February, the Russians had almost no resistance in the start of the offensive, especially in the north. And so, they could, what they have done since then, they could surround the Ukrainian forces in the south, in the southeast part of the country—that means between the two Republics of the Donbas and the Ukraine mainland, if you want. And that’s where the bulk of the Ukrainian forces are today. And according to the…that’s exactly the Russian doctrine to fight, I mean operational doctrine. Their main offensive was on the south, clearly, because the objective stated by Vladimir Putin—we can probably come back on these details later on—but this was demilitarization and denazification.
> 
> 
> Both objectives, in fact, were about to be done or to be reached in the south of the country, and that’s where the main efforts of the offensive was done. In the offensive order, the effort against Kiev is a so-called secondary effort, and it had, as a fact, you had two functions basically. First of all, to put some pressure on the political leadership in Kiev because the name of the game is to bring the Ukrainians to the negotiations. That was the first objective of this second effort.
> 
> 
> The second objective of this second effort was to bind or to pin down the rest of the Ukrainian armored forces so that they could not reinforce the main forces which are in the Donbas area. And that worked quite well. So that means that the Russians could surround, as I said, the main forces, the bulk of the armed forces—the Ukrainian armed forces. Once they have achieved that they could withdraw some troops from Kiev, and that’s what they have done since end of March. They have pulled several units in order to reinforce what they want; I mean their own forces to carry on under the main battle in the Donbas area. So now they are pulling, and they have pulled these troops from the Kiev area, and these troops will now help to flank for the vanguard, the offensive against the main forces in the Donbas. And that’s what some called the ‘mother of all battles’ that is currently going on in the Donbas area, where you have—nobody knows exactly the number of Ukrainian troops; estimates vary from sixty thousand to eighty thousand who are surrounded—and the forces would be cut in smaller cauldrons and then destroyed or neutralized.
> 
> 
> *AARON MATÉ:* It’s pretty clear to me that Zelenskyy’s government had no interest in serious diplomacy on all the critical issues that could have avoided a war, and I think the main factor is what I presume to be US pressure behind the scenes, which we can’t fully prove now. But I imagine evidence of that might come out later. And certainly, the open hostility of Ukraine’s far right, who essentially threatened Zelenskyy’s life if he made peace with Russia. And these threats have dogged him throughout his presidency and continued right up to the eve of the invasion, and it led to people like his top security official saying in late January that the implementation of the Minsk accords would lead to Ukraine’s destruction—after Zelenskyy was elected on a platform of implementing Minsk—and that carried over to the final talks on implementing the Minsk accords that were brokered by Germany and France.
> 
> 
> At those talks in February, Zelenskyy’s government all of a sudden refused to even speak to the representatives of the rebels, which makes an accord possible. And meanwhile you had developments like this, which we just learned about from _The Wall Street Journal,_ which was that the German chancellor [Olaf] Scholz on February 19th told Zelenskyy that, quote, “Ukraine should renounce its NATO aspirations and declare neutrality as part of a wider European security deal between the West and Russia.” And this pact Scholz proposed would be signed by Biden and Putin, but Zelenskyy rejected this—rejected out of hand.
> 
> 
> But my question is, because I think it’s pretty conclusive that the Zelenskyy-Ukraine side sabotaged diplomacy, but what about Russia? Do you think Russia exhausted all of its diplomatic options to avoid a war? For example, why not go to the UN and ask for a peacekeeping force in the Donbas? And second of all, if the aim is to protect the people of the Donbas, why invade far beyond the Donbas and not just go there?
> 
> 
> *JACQUES BAUD:* Well, I think the Russians have totally lost faith in the West. I think that’s the main thing. They don’t trust the West anymore, and that’s why I think now they rely on a total victory on the military side in order to have some benefits in the negotiation.
> 
> 
> I think Zelenskyy…I’m not sure exactly if he’s so reluctant to have peace. I think he cannot do it. I think from the very beginning he was caught between his…remember that he was elected with the idea of achieving peace in the Donbas. That was his objective; that was his program as president. But I think the West—and I would say the Americans and the British didn’t want this peace to occur. And of course, the Germans and the French who were the guarantors of the Minsk agreement for the Ukrainian side, they never really implemented this—their function. I mean, they have never done their job, clearly. And especially France, which is simultaneously a member of the Security Council. Because I will just remind you that the Minsk agreements were also part of a resolution of the Security Council. So, meaning that they have not only the signature of the different parties that was done in Minsk, but you have also the members of the Security Council who were responsible for implementation of the agreement, and nobody wanted to have this agreement made. So that means that, I think, there was a lot of pressure on Zelenskyy so that he wouldn’t even talk to the representatives of the two breakaway Republics.
> 
> 
> And after that we have seen, by the way, that we have several indications that Zelenskyy was not completely, or is not completely, in control of what’s going on in Ukraine. I think the extreme, let’s say, nationalist extreme right—I don’t know exactly what is the right term because it’s a mixture of everything—but these forces definitely prevent him, or prevented him, so far to do anything. And we can see also that he’s back and forth regarding peace. As soon as he started, you may remember that at the end of February, as soon as Zelenskyy indicated that he might be willing to start negotiations, this was the time where these negotiations were to take place in Belarus. Within hours after Zelenskyy decided that, the European Union came with a decision providing for half a billion arms to Ukraine, meaning that the Americans, certainly, but I think the West as a whole, made every possible effort to prevent a political solution to the conflict, and I think the Russians are aware of that.
> 
> 
> Now we have also to understand that the Russians have a different understanding of how to wage a war on the Western powers, especially the US. That means that in the West we tend to, if we negotiate, we negotiate up to a certain point and then negotiations stop, and we start war. And that’s war, period. In the Russian way of doing things, it’s different. You start a war, but you never leave the diplomatic track, and you go on both ways, in fact. You put mental pressure and you try to achieve an objective, also with diplomatic means. This is very much a *Clausewitzian* approach to war—when [Prussian general and military theorist *Carl von] Clausewitz, *as you know, defined war as the continuation of politics with other means.
> 
> 
> That’s exactly how the Russians see that. That’s why during the whole offensive, and even at the very beginning of the offensive, they started, or they indicated they were willing, to negotiate. So, the Russians certainly want to negotiate, but they don’t trust the Western countries—I mean the West at large—to facilitate that negotiation. And that’s the reason why they didn’t come to the Security Council. By the way, they know that, probably, because, as you know, this physical war that we witness now is part of a broader war that was started years ago against Russia, and I think, in fact, Ukraine is just…I mean, nobody is interested in Ukraine, I think. The target, the aim, the objective is to weaken Russia, and once it will be done with Russia, they will do the same with China, and you can already see. I mean, we have seen that now, the Ukrainian crisis has overshadowed the rest, but you could have a very similar scenario happening with Taiwan, for instance. So, the Chinese are aware of that. That’s the reason why they don’t want to give up their, let’s say, relationship with Russia.
> 
> 
> Now, the name of the game is weakening Russia, and you know that there have been several studies done by the Rand Corporation on extending Russia, overextending Russia, and so on, and where the whole scenario is…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *AARON MATÉ:* Just to explain that for people who aren’t familiar with it, Rand is a Pentagon-type think tank, and they did a study in 2019 looking at all the different ways in which the US could overextend and unbalance Russia, and the top option was to send weapons to Ukraine to fuel a conflict there that could draw Russia in, which is exactly what’s happened.
> 
> 
> *JACQUES BAUD:* Absolutely. And I think that this is a complete design for weakening Russia, and that’s exactly what we see unfolding right now. We could have anticipated that, and I think Putin anticipated that. And I think he understood that, if on the end of February, I mean, on the 24th of February, or let’s say just before because he had to make the decision before, but in the days before deciding on the offensive, he understood that he could not do nothing. He had to do something. The Russian public opinion would never have understood why Russia would remain just observing the Donbas Republics being invaded or destroyed by Ukraine. So, nobody would have understood that. So, he was obliged to go. And then, I think…and that’s what, if you remember what he said on the 24th of February, he said regardless of what he would do, the amount of sanctions he will receive would be the same. So basically, he knew that the slightest intervention in the Donbas would trigger a massive launch of sanctions, so he knew that. So, then he decided, ‘Okay, then I have to go for the maximal option,’ because one option would have been just to reinforce, don’t mess with the Republics and just defend the Republics on the line of contact. But he decided to go for the larger option, which is to destroy those forces that threatened Donbas.
> 
> 
> And that’s where you have those two objectives. Demilitarization, which is not the whole demilitarization of all Ukraine, but it was to suppress the military threat that was on the Donbas; that’s the main objective of that. There’s a lot of misunderstanding of what he said and, of course, he was not very clear, but that’s part of the Russian way of communicating and doing things. They want to keep options open, and that’s the reason why they say the minimum things and they just say what’s necessary. And this is exactly what Putin meant on the 21st, what he said about suppressing the military threat against the Donbas. Denazification had nothing to do with killing Zelenskyy or destroying the leadership in Kiev. That was definitely not the idea, and, as a matter of fact, as I said, the main way they conceive war is to combine a physical action and diplomatic action. So that means that in such a way of doing you have to keep a leadership and you have to keep them in order to negotiate, and that’s why there was no way you would kill or destroy the leadership in Kiev.
> 
> 
> So, denazification was basically not about the 2.5 percent of the extreme right in Kiev. That was about the 100 percent of Azov people in Mariupol and Kharkov, and this kind of thing. So, we tend to misunderstand because some people said, ‘Well, but, you know, why denazify? Because there is only 2.5 percent of political rightwing parties, only 2.5 percent or something like that, so it’s meaningless. So, why denazify? It makes no sense.’ But it was not about that. It was definitely about those groups that were in fact recruited from 2014 by the Ukrainians in order to, let’s say, I would say pacify or control. I don’t know exactly what’s the right word for that, but to fight in Donbas. These people were extremists, fanatics, and these people were dangerous.
> 
> 
> *AARON MATÉ:* And one of the points you make in your article, which I didn’t know, is that part of the reason why Ukraine had this need for militias, far-right militias and foreign mercenaries, is because of a high rate of defection inside its own military ranks, people not wanting to serve, and even defecting to the other side of the rebellion in the Donbas.
> 
> 
> *JACQUES BAUD:* Exactly. In fact, I noticed that, as I told you, I was in NATO and was monitoring the influx of weapons in the Donbas, and what we noticed is that we couldn’t identify import of weapons or export of weapons from the Russian side to the Donbas. But what we could see is that you had a lot of Ukrainian units who defected, in fact, and complete battalions. And in 2014, most of the heavy artillery that the Donbas gained were from defectors. The whole units defected with ammunition and people and all that. The reason is that the Ukrainian army was based on a territorial…was manned and organized on a territorial way. That means you had a lot of Russian-speak[ers] in the armed forces. Once they were sent to fight in the Donbas, they didn’t even want to fight their own colleagues and Russian-speaking people, so they preferred to defect.
> 
> 
> And in addition to that you had in 2014, I mean in 2014 to 2017, in that period the leadership of the Ukrainian army was extremely poor. You had a lot of corruption. I’m not sure that the military was prepared for such a kind of war, in fact, because the war that was fought at that time by the rebels was very similar to what you can see in the Middle East today, or in the last years. That made very mobile units moving around very rapidly, much faster than the heavy units that the Ukrainian army had, and, as a result, if we see the pattern of the different battles that were fought in 2014, 2015, you could see that the Ukrainians could never lead. They had never the initiative. The initiative was always with the rebels. And it was not guerrilla. That’s important to say. It was kind of extremely mobile warfare. And in addition to that you had, I think, the army was not really prepared to fight in general. So, you had a lot of suicides, you had a lot of alcohol problems, you had a lot of accidents, you had a lot of murders within the Ukrainian army.
> 
> 
> And that led a lot of young Ukrainians to leave the country, because they didn’t want to join the army. And what I’m saying is, I mean, it was recorded and reported by official reports in the UK and the US, I think. They made some very interesting reports on the low rate of recruitment of individuals, because people didn’t want simply to join the army. And that’s the reason why NATO was involved, and I was involved in such a program, trying to reshuffle the image of the army and find solutions to improve the recruitment condition of the army, and things like that.
> 
> 
> But the solutions that were provided by NATO were in fact institutional solutions that would take time, and in order to compensate with lack of personnel and probably to have more aggressive military personnel, they started to use internationalists and mercenaries, as a matter of fact. Nobody knows exactly the number of these paramilitaries or extreme rights militias. Reuters put the figure at one hundred thousand. I’m not able to verify that, but that was a figure given by Reuters. And that seems to fit what we can observe now in the different regions of the country. So, these paramilitaries took a major role not in mobile warfare, and I would say [not in] the normal field warfare, but they were used in maintaining order within cities. And that’s exactly what you have today in Mariupol, for instance, where you had those people, because they are not equipped for field operations. They are equipped for urban warfare. They have light equipment, they have some armored vehicles, but they don’t really have tanks, anything like this.
> 
> 
> So, this is definitely units that are meant for urban warfare. That’s what they do in major cities. And these guys are extremely fanatic, we can say, and they are extremely dangerous. And that explains the way Mariupol, the battles and the extremely brutal fights that you have in Mariupol as an example, and we probably will see the same thing in Kharkov, for instance.
> 
> 
> *AARON MATÉ:* As we wrap, I want to ask you about some of the recent atrocities that we’ve seen reported. There were reports of mass civilian killings by Russia inside the town of Bucha and also killings of Ukrainian forces, and then you had the attack on the train station in Kramatorsk. I’m wondering if you’ve evaluated both of these incidents and what you make of them.
> 
> 
> *JACQUES BAUD:* Well, there are two things in that. And the first is that the indication we have on both incidents to me indicates that the Russians were not responsible for that. But, in fact, we don’t know. I think that’s what we have to say. I mean, if we’re honest, we don’t know what happened. The indications we have, everything, all the elements we have tends to point at Ukrainian responsibilities, but we don’t know.
> 
> 
> What disturbs me in the whole thing is not so much that we don’t know, because in war there’s always such situations, there are always situations where you don’t know exactly who is really responsible. What disturbs me is that Western leaders started to make decisions without knowing what’s going on and what happened. And that’s something that disturbs me quite deeply, that before having any result of any kind of inquiry, of investigation, and I mean international, impartial investigation, without having that we start already to take sanctions, to make decisions, and I think that illustrates how the whole decision-making process in the West was perverted. Since February or even before, in fact, because we had a similar thing after the hijacking—or not hijacking, by the way, it was not a hijacking—but the incident in Belarus with this Ryanair flight. You may remember last May, last year, that people started to react just minutes after the incident was reported in the press, even they didn’t know what was going on! So, that’s this way of doing from the political leadership in Europe, I mean the European Union, but also in European countries. That disturbs me as an intelligence officer. How can you make a decision with such impact on populations or on whole countries that disturbs even our own economies? So, it tends to backfire on us. But we take decisions without even knowing what’s going on, and that, I think, indicates an extremely immature leadership that we have in the West in general. That’s certainly the case in the US, but I think in this example of the Ukraine crisis shows that the European leadership is not better than what you have in the US. It’s probably even worse, I think, sometimes. So, that’s what should worry us, that you have people deciding based on nothing, and that’s extremely dangerous.
> 
> 
> *AARON MATÉ:* Jacques Baud, he is a former strategic intelligence officer with the Swiss Strategic Intelligence Service, also served in a number of senior security and advisory positions at NATO, the UN, and the Swiss military. Jacques, thank you very much for your time and insight.
> 
> 
> *JACQUES BAUD:* Thank you for everything. Thank you.
> 
> https://thegrayzone.com/2022/04/15/us-eu-sacrificing-ukraine-to-weaken-russia-fmr-nato-adviser/


How comes a Swiss be a NATO adviser?
Another faked news.
Putin should try harder.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515274121705406475

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515334441387933705

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515339048499433474


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## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515274121705406475
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515334441387933705
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515339048499433474


The whole world?
At UN assembly Russia is supported by Burma, Cuba, Syria and NK.
If those 4 represent the world then I am the Nicolas.

Did I say Putin should try harder?

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## SalarHaqq

Behold this: in the first round of the 2022 French presidential election held last weekend, candidates more or less critical of the prevailing liberal order, more or less skeptical of NATO and *not in line with the ongoing anti-Russian rabble rousing*, have received an absolute majority of votes!

Marine Le Pen (far right) = 23,15%
Jean-Luc Mélenchon (left) = 21,95%
Eric Zemmour (islamophobic zionist far-right) = 7,07%
Jean Lassalle (independent) = 3,13%
Fabien Roussel (Communist Party of France) = 2,28%
Philippe Poutou (Trotskyist left) = 0,77%
Nathalie Arthaud (Trotskyist left) = 0,56%

Added total = *58,91%* !!!

In short, people of France are rejecting the ruling, secular liberal (pseudo-)democratic regime and its dominant elites like never before. Just beautiful. And, they're no longer receptive to NATO propaganda.

Look at the colossal mass of propaganda and psy-ops flooding the internet against Russia, China and Iran. Yet, it isn't working. Not anymore. As the French election result has shown, citizens of the west no longer buy into the narratives peddled by their declining regimes. They've just had enough of the fallacious, hypocritical circus theatrics of liberal "democratic" politics, of the incessant lies, the corruption, the oppression, the unjustified wars.

Hence why NATO regimes, so-called "democracies" preaching "freedom of speech", have gone over to implementing censorship on a scale not witnessed since 1945. Hence why erudite scholars and analysts denouncing the state propaganda relative to the war in Ukraine are being silenced by having their accounts shut down on major internet platforms and their contributions deleted under totally bogus pretexts, given the fact that they hadn't breached any rules. Rules which no longer mean anything in western so-called "democracies", substituted as they have been by arbitrary executive action.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514535625990578179


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## mmr

SalarHaqq said:


> Behold this: in the first round of the 2022 French presidential election held last weekend, candidates more or less critical of the prevailing liberal order, more or less skeptical of NATO and *not in line with the ongoing anti-Russian rabble rousing*, have received an absolute majority of votes!
> 
> Marine Le Pen (far right) = 23,15%
> Jean-Luc Mélenchon (left) = 21,95%
> Eric Zemmour (islamophobic zionist far-right) = 7,07%
> Jean Lassalle (independent) = 3,13%
> Fabien Roussel (Communist Party of France) = 2,28%
> Philippe Poutou (Trotskyist left) = 0,77%
> Nathalie Arthaud (Trotskyist left) = 0,56%
> 
> Added total = 58,91% !!!
> 
> At 73,69%, voter turnout has furthermore been slightly disappointing for a French presidential election.
> 
> In short, people of France are rejecting the ruling secular liberal (pseudo-)democratic regime like never before. Just beautiful. And, they've had enough of NATO propaganda.


Le pen wont win

But if she does win...she will ban even hijab and fine ppl who pray in the Street during friday prayer.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515392771502264324

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515392772798300160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515392774278889474


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## gambit

Vergennes said:


> "Russia threatens to attack West weapon shipments". Amazing fact is the west is supplying billions dollar worth of weapons to Ukraine (and the flow still continues) which have killed thousands of Russian troops and yet they can't do sh/t about it.


The West is *NOT* sending weapons to Ukraine. It is a 'special charity operation'.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515349863705321475

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514994993500463113

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## SalarHaqq

mmr said:


> Le pen wont win
> 
> But if she does win...she will ban even hijab and fine ppl who pray in the Street during friday prayer.



You wholly missed the point of my comment. I couldn't care less about Le Pen. And of course dissidents will never be able to win engineered elections, nothing new here.

What I do rejoice about, however, is the fact that populations in the west are fed up to the back teeth about their lying, cheating, corrupt, sclerotic, decadent, criminal and increasingly repressive regimes which masquerade as democracies and pretend to be serving the people when the exact opposite is the case.

When you saturate the airwaves and the web with this much propaganda and mental conditioning but still get rejected by the people at elections, you know it's game over. Brace yourself for the downfall. It's inevitable, it will come, although the exact date can't be determined yet.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514923070879846400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514963919051567105

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515397476429221898

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## The SC

What is the significance of the sinking of the Moskva’s?​
The 12,500 tonne Moskva was armed with multiple anti-ship and surface-to-air missiles, and was the only ship of its class in the Black Sea. The two other missile cruisers – the Marshal Ustinov and the Varyag – are deployed with Russia’s Northern and Pacific fleets respectively.





A satellite image provided by Maxar Technologies shows the Moskva in the port of Sevastopol in Crimea on April 7 [Satellite image ©2022 Maxar Technologies via AP Photo]

The Institute for the Study of War (IOW) says it was not able to verify that Ukraine had sunk the warship, but the Moskva’s loss – regardless of the cause – was a “major propaganda victory for Ukraine”. In contrast, it was likely to undermine Russian morale, the institute said.

In military terms, however, the loss might not be so significant.

IOW says the Moskva was probably mainly used to conduct Kalibr cruise missile attacks on sites including logistic centres and airfields in Ukraine.

“These strikes have been effective but limited in number compared to airstrikes and ground-launched missiles throughout the invasion and the loss of the Moskva is unlikely to be a decisive blow,” IOW said.

Russian military experts have also played down the sinking’s military significance.

“The ship is really very old. Actually, there have been plans to scrap it for five years now,” Russian military analyst Alexander Khramchikhin told the Reuters news agency.

“It has more status value than real combat value, and in general, had nothing to do with the current operation. It will have no effect on the course of hostilities.”


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/15/explainer-what-is-the-significance-of-the-moskva-sinking


Also good to know:
Mines placed by Ukraine in Black Sea may drift toward Bosporus — FSB ​
https://tass.com/emergencies/142457...=referral&utm_campaign=t.co&utm_referrer=t.co


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515297630288551939

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515413059883307010

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

jamal18 said:


> These particular Chechens are the one's who swapped sides and went over to Russia. They fought their fellow muslim Chechens against Chechen independence.



They are Sufis who have issues with the Salafist-led uprising. Within the Sunni population no matter where you go, you'll find a conflict between Sufi and Salafists.




The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514923070879846400
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514963919051567105




Not sure why they are not fully deploying it but Russians need to fully use their anti-GPS and satellite jamming capabilities. The Moskova ship that recently sunk were lost because its GPS coordinates was given to Ukrainian forces that launched the anti-ship missile.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515411696080367617


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515164964314497025

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515194503828631556

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515212198448013315

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515413200770060304


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## Viet

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515297630288551939


He joins Shoigu in gulag.
Putin hates bad news.
By the way, where is Gerasimov, the chief of general staff?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515115934616375296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515031993293185034

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## Wood

Viet said:


> He joins Shoigu in gulag.
> Putin hates bad news.
> By the way, where is Gerasimov, the chief of general staff?


He has until the 9th of May.  

Funny to see Putin sending all his 'yes men' to detention. Before war, it would all be about loyalty for dictators. But now loyalty is not good enough, competent people are needed. Putin is unable to find enough of them


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515419808556331011

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
2


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515019690871037960


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## Viet

SalarHaqq said:


> Behold this: in the first round of the 2022 French presidential election held last weekend, candidates more or less critical of the prevailing liberal order, more or less skeptical of NATO and *not in line with the ongoing anti-Russian rabble rousing*, have received an absolute majority of votes!
> 
> Marine Le Pen (far right) = 23,15%
> Jean-Luc Mélenchon (left) = 21,95%
> Eric Zemmour (islamophobic zionist far-right) = 7,07%
> Jean Lassalle (independent) = 3,13%
> Fabien Roussel (Communist Party of France) = 2,28%
> Philippe Poutou (Trotskyist left) = 0,77%
> Nathalie Arthaud (Trotskyist left) = 0,56%
> 
> Added total = 58,91% !!!
> 
> In short, people of France are rejecting the ruling, secular liberal (pseudo-)democratic regime and its dominant elites like never before. Just beautiful. And, they're no longer receptive to NATO propaganda.
> 
> Look at the colossal mass of propaganda and psy-ops flooding the internet against Russia, China and Iran. Yet, it isn't working. Not anymore. As the French election result has shown, citizens of the west no longer buy into the narratives peddled by their declining regimes. They've just had enough of the fallacious, hypocritical circus theatrics of liberal "democratic" politics, of the incessant lies, the corruption, the oppression, the unjustified wars.
> 
> Hence why NATO regimes, so-called "democracies" preaching "freedom of speech", have gone over to implementing censorship on a scale not witnessed since 1945. Hence why erudite scholars and analysts denouncing the state propaganda relative to the war in Ukraine are being silenced by having their accounts shut down on major internet platforms and their contributions deleted under totally bogus pretexts, given the fact that they hadn't breached any rules. Rules which no longer mean anything in western so-called "democracies", substituted as they have been by arbitrary executive action.


That’s the wonderful thing in the west, people can select anyone they like. They can vote the racist, liberal, xenophobist, leftist, rightist, centrist, gay, trotzkist, communist. Whoever has majority wins. Try that in Russia. Citing those as Nato hater is low.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515394868595539968

Reactions: Love Love:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Piotr

Crew of Russian Cruiser Moskva to Continue Serving in Navy - Defense Ministry​1 hour ago

MOSCOW (Sputnik) - The crew of the sunken Russian guided missile cruiser Moskva will carry on with their service in the country's navy, the Russian Defense Ministry said on Saturday.
On Thursday, the ministry said that the vessel, which had been damaged after ammunition explosion, sunk during stormy weather.

"The commander-in-chief of the navy, Admiral Nikolay Yevmenov, and the Black Sea Fleet command had a meeting with the crew of the guided missile cruiser Moskva in Sevastopol. Admiral Nikolay Yevmenov informed the cruiser's crew that the officers, midshipmen and sailors will continue their service in the navy," the ministry said on Telegram.
Conscript crew members of Moskva will be retired to reserve from may to June in line with law, Yevmenov said in a separate statement on Russian television channel Zvezda.
The ship, whose initial name was "Slava," was laid down in Mykolaiv in 1976 and commissioned in 1983.

https://sputniknews.com/20220416/cr...ng-in-navy---defense-ministry-1094821942.html

Crew of Sunken Moskva Missile Cruiser Re-Enlists To Continue Service In Navy​


> Crew of Sunken Moskva Missile Cruiser Re-Enlists To Continue Service In Navy
> 
> 
> "🇬🇧🇺🇦🔥 Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy Admiral Nikolai Evmenov and the command of the Black Sea Fleet held a meeting with the crew of the guards missile cruiser "Moskva" in Sevastopol. At the meeting, the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, Admir…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bitchute.com



https://www.bitchute.com/video/3HvqkTizClGj/

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## Ali_Baba

Russian warship: Moskva crew 'shown for first time since sinking'


Russia's defence ministry releases a video purportedly showing the crew of the Moskva in Sevastopol.



www.bbc.co.uk





Russians trying to pass off some random people as the crew of the sunken ship? Maybe it is the relief crew??

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515019690871037960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514947189075812355

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515421307894210563

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## The SC

*With Maps:*​Invasion Day 51 – Summary​
https://militaryland.net/ukraine/invasion-day-51-summary/


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515120293051871235

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515370932088590342


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Israeli arms dealers are buying all of the Western-donated atgms from the Ukrainians. 👇👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515084815770529792


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515409537880182787

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## Kraetoz

Is this thread the biggest ever on PDF in terms of number of posts?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515395025198370825

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515382893887262720

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## nufix

Viet said:


> This guy is not a German journalist. He is a German blogger. He obviously gets pays from Moscow for every faked news he posts.
> By the way before you can call yourself journalist you must have an university degree in journalism in Germany.



Not really, journalist is a job that can be performed by people with almost any background. There is ofcourse Ausbildung to become journalist, but anyone with a degree can be a journalist as long as they are actively publishing stories. 









Ausbildung zum Journalist - Inhalte, Gehalt, Zukunftschancen


Journalisten bzw. Redakteure sammeln Informationen, verarbeiten und verbreiten sie, um zu informieren, zu berichten, etwas anzustoßen oder zu unterhalten. Dazu nutzen sie Online- und Printmedien, das Radio und das Fernsehen.




www.aubi-plus.de





Some of my friend became journalists and their background range from PoWi, WiWi to BioWi.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515401792586137602
British mercenary Shaun Penner caught by the DNR People's Republic. He was captured in Mariupol.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515421841141256195

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515390834304335877

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515375074614087680

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Zelensky pleading to Russians for a safe passage of the remaining Azov Neo Nazis in Mariupol. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515397609803980803

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515381715052732416


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## zartosht

No way in hell Russia captures mariupol.. 

not as long as this British Rambo is there holding the line.






Russians should surrender already before he gets really mad.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515439096977633282

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514827612694233088


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## Wood

Good video about switch blade by asianometry!


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515399982270058503

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1 | Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514827614145425412


----------



## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515419808556331011


 killing of 20k russian troops lol


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515423104604033026

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Ukrainian soldiers captured by Chechen warriors



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515446173988962304

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515441529782947851

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515389814253752327


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514905274913542150

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515392127999647750

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## Oldman1

Wood said:


> Yes, Putin is trying to put a lot of firepower in the upcoming battle in East. Ukranians need a lot more to hold on to territory. Technical superiority of Western weapons may not be enough to overcome the numbers


From what I'm seeing in the reports, the Ukrainians are targeting the supplies of the Russian columns to support the push. Can't do that if ammo and supplies keep getting destroyed just like the fighting in Northern Ukraine. Not to mention Kharkiv is also important that can target the Russian flank as well. Something the Russians fear.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515384676248080398

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515384679507152898

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515384686364798983

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## thetutle

mmr said:


> Le pen wont win
> 
> But if she does win...she will ban even hijab and fine ppl who pray in the Street during friday prayer.


thats what Russian fanboys want. But even if France joins russia in this war it will make no difference, The real power is the USA/UK and anglo-sphere, everyone else is just a sideshow.

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## Oldman1

Russia warns US against providing weapons to Ukraine: Reports


Russia says US, NATO weapons shipments to Ukraine could lead to ‘unpredictable consequences’, Washington Post reports.




www.aljazeera.com





Russia warns US against providing weapons to Ukraine: Reports​_Russia says US, NATO weapons shipments to Ukraine could lead to ‘unpredictable consequences’, Washington Post reports._

Russia has warned the United States of “unpredictable consequences” should US President Joe Biden’s administration continue to transfer weapons to Ukraine, The Washington Post reported.

The Post said on Friday that it had reviewed a copy of a diplomatic note that Russia sent the US this week, which warned that US and NATO shipments of the “most sensitive” weapons systems to Ukraine could bring “unpredictable consequences”.

“We call on the United States and its allies to stop the irresponsible militarization of Ukraine, which implies unpredictable consequences for regional and international security,” said the note, which was dated Tuesday.

The shipments were “adding fuel” to the conflict, the note also said, according to the newspaper.

The report comes days after the Biden administration announced an additional $800m in military assistance to Ukraine, which has been fighting Russian forces since Moscow launched its invasion of the country on February 24.

The military aid package included artillery systems, artillery rounds, armoured personnel carriers and helicopters – and brought the total tally of US aid to Ukraine since Russia’s invasion began to more than $2.4bn.


----------



## Wood

Covert Cabal estimates that Russia has less than 3000 tanks in storage that can be pressed into service. Research for the estimate is based on satellite images of known locations. If this is true, then Russia may not have enough tanks to last until the end of year

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## Oldman1

Wood said:


> Covert Cabal estimates that Russia has less than 3000 tanks in storage that can be pressed into service. Research for the estimate is based on satellite images of known locations. If this is true, then Russia may not have enough tanks to last until the end of year


Probably not even enough well trained crew either.

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## Wood

Oldman1 said:


> Russia warns US against providing weapons to Ukraine: Reports
> 
> 
> Russia says US, NATO weapons shipments to Ukraine could lead to ‘unpredictable consequences’, Washington Post reports.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia warns US against providing weapons to Ukraine: Reports​_Russia says US, NATO weapons shipments to Ukraine could lead to ‘unpredictable consequences’, Washington Post reports._
> 
> Russia has warned the United States of “unpredictable consequences” should US President Joe Biden’s administration continue to transfer weapons to Ukraine, The Washington Post reported.
> 
> The Post said on Friday that it had reviewed a copy of a diplomatic note that Russia sent the US this week, which warned that US and NATO shipments of the “most sensitive” weapons systems to Ukraine could bring “unpredictable consequences”.
> 
> “We call on the United States and its allies to stop the irresponsible militarization of Ukraine, which implies unpredictable consequences for regional and international security,” said the note, which was dated Tuesday.
> 
> The shipments were “adding fuel” to the conflict, the note also said, according to the newspaper.
> 
> The report comes days after the Biden administration announced an additional $800m in military assistance to Ukraine, which has been fighting Russian forces since Moscow launched its invasion of the country on February 24.
> 
> The military aid package included artillery systems, artillery rounds, armoured personnel carriers and helicopters – and brought the total tally of US aid to Ukraine since Russia’s invasion began to more than $2.4bn.


Threat without a defined consequence is just another name for begging.

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## Oldman1

Wood said:


> Threat without a defined consequence is just another name for begging.


If they try something thats unpredictable on NATO soil, well they can say their offensive special operation in Ukraine goodbye.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515315203046576135


----------



## The SC



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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515434207329222656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515434216908988420

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515210258163011584


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515458516156362752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515444761922056198

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515448516256186369

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515460497931485186

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## mmr

thetutle said:


> thats what Russian fanboys want. But even if France joins russia in this war it will make no difference, The real power is the USA/UK and anglo-sphere, everyone else is just a sideshow.


Pretty much.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515452452123910150


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515371767950368783


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515411683698749446


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## CAPRICORN-88

EU Warns Members That Paying Rubles For Gas Would Violate Sanctions​By ZeroHedge - Apr 15, 2022, 1:30 PM CDT

An internal European Commission note, the contents of which has come to light and is being reported for the first time on Thursday, has spelled out that *European buyers agreeing to pay for Russian gas in roubles would be violating EU sanctions against Moscow*. 

"This mechanism would lead to a breach of the existing EU restrictive measures adopted in respect of Russia, its government, the Central Bank of Russia, and their proxies," Reuters reports of decrees in the internal note after reviewing its contents.

It threatens to further escalate the energy standoff which has ensued after Vladimir Putin demanded payment for Russian gas in roubles by "unfriendly countries" which have leveled sanctions on Russia in the wake of the Feb.24 Ukraine invasion - the exemptions given to Austria and Hungary of late notwithstanding. 

According to more from the internal memo: 

_The EU buyer would still pay Gazprombank in the contract currency - euros or dollars - but the purchase would only be complete once Gazprombank exchanges the currency into roubles in a deal with the Russian central bank, and deposits the roubles in the second account, the note said._

The memo underscores, "The effect ... is that a payment is completed not in the currency established under the contract at the moment it is deposited in the accounts ... but rather *only at an unknown and undefined moment once the foreign currency* ... *is converted into roubles *and credited to the second special account."

The European Commission wrote further, "The Russian State, through its central bank, has total control over the foreign currency... which it can manipulate entirely to its own benefit."

Essentially the commission ruling on the matter would make Putin's rouble stipulation completely off limits for individual European countries and entities, especially as the process would involve Russia overseeing the whole payment process. 

Meanwhile, on Thursday Putin addressed the crisis in fresh statements. "Attempts by Western countries *to squeeze out Russian suppliers and replace our energy resources with alternative supplies will inevitably affect the entire world economy*. The consequences of such a step can become very painful, and first of all, for the initiators of such a policy themselves. What is surprising here is that our so-called partners from unfriendly countries admit that they cannot do without Russian energy resources, including natural gas, for example."

He talked about reorienting "our exports to the fast-growing markets of* the south and east*..." and warned Europe at the same time:

"*A reasonable alternative for Europe simply doesn’t exist*. Yes, it's possible, but right now, it doesn’t exist. Everyone understands this; there are simply no free volumes on the global market right now, and supplies from other countries — primarily from the United States, which can be sent to Europe — will cost consumers many times more and will affect the standard of living of people and the competitiveness of the European economy,” Putin said.

He also addressed instances of payment failures and delays...

"Banks from unfriendly countries delay the transfer of payments.* I will remind you, the task has already been set to transfer payments for energy resources in national currency, to gradually move away from the dollar and the euro*. In general, we intend to radically increase the share of settlements in national currencies in the foreign trade system," Putin said.

Thus, given the contents in this latest European Commission note, it looks as if there's no off-ramp and the energy standoff will continue. At the same time Putin is touting that Russia still has 'friends' and thus greater options in the east and south, without doubt including India and China.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> View attachment 834998




Moskva's GPS coordinates were given to the Ukrainians by foreign powers with satellites overlooking the Black Sea. The Ukrainians are also getting solid weapons, intelligence, and special forces' support from Western powers. So the direct participation of NATO and its allies in this war is pretty much obvious. 

Now, would it become a World War III? It remains to be seen, but the West's direct participation in this conflict is there.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

So the Rule based International Order by the US is interpreted as International Law by EU.

Will all these divide and breaks up EU as predicted by some analysts?

*Will EU kicked out members that violate the decree which these nations defend as a right to do so to to secure their own National Energy Security? *

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515452452123910150




In other words, Poles are shitting in their pants after they directly intervened in a conflict that has nothing to do with them. Well, you throw yourself in a fire, don't be surprised if you get burned in it.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515467920939311107

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## CAPRICORN-88

Will India be the next on US strike list over Russia?​​​India’s Russian Dealings Have Left Biden’s Geopolitical Oil Strategy In Tatters​By Simon Watkins - Apr 11, 2022, 7:00 PM CDT

India ramped up crude oil purchases from Russia despite warnings from Washington not to do so.
India’s relations with the U.S. seemed to have improved during a brief struggle with this China last summer.
Besides oil, India also signed defence and industrial deals with Russia at the end of 2021.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515391386949881857

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## CAPRICORN-88

*SWIFT not irreplaceable, but its substitution requires considerable preparations: China's former central bank chief*

By Global TimesPublished: Apr 16, 2022 10:23 PM

SWIFT is not irreplaceable, but its substitution requires a great deal of preparations given SWIFT's efficiency and market scale, Zhou Xiaochuan, former chief of China's central bank, said on Saturday at an annual financial forum in Beijing.

At the 2022 Tsinghua PBCSF Global Finance Forum in Beijing, Zhou gave an insight into the role of SWIFT, China's Cross-Border Interbank Payment System (CIPS) and digital currencies amid current geopolitical instability.

Cross-border payments in global trade can theoretically be made without going through SWIFT, the former governor of the People's Bank of China (PBC) said.

*If SWIFT is immensely used as a sanction tool, others will surely find other messaging conduits to continue doing trade, he said.*

Global financial payment or messaging systems, should they slide into some "Cold War" patterns, would bring damage to everyone, Zhou commented.

*The West's adoption of a financial nuclear option in using SWIFT to sanction Russia amid Ukraine tensions is a wakeup call for China's financial development. "We must get prepared," tapping the digital economy to ensure financial, trade security, Liu Liange, chairman of Bank of China, said at the forum.*

Zhou's remarks on SWIFT, the Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication, especially when compared with CIPS, the homegrown payment and settlement system CIPS launched by the PBC in 2015, were *thought provoking.*

SWIFT is in fact a messaging platform, instead of a cross-border international payment system. It handles a lot of communications prior to payments being executed, and the following payment and settlement go through the system of each country, Zhou said.

While CIPS is designed for the cross-border payment for the yuan, making it the cross-border payment, settlement and clearing system of the Chinese currency. Of course, it also can be used by some other mainstream currencies, but so far there are not many of them using it, Zhou noted.

*Last year, the number of transactions CIPS handled hit more than 3.3 million, up by over 50 percent from the prior year. It processed roughly 80 trillion yuan ($12.56 trillion) worth of transactions in 2021, a surge of over 75 percent from 2020, Jiefang Daily reported at the end of February.*

Presently, participants in CIPS hit 1,259 and the system's coverage includes 103 countries and regions. Overseas institutions taking part in the system are 649, accounting for 52 percent of the total, according to the report. 

By comparison, "an average of 42 million payments and securities transactions were processed using our FIN message service per day last year," SWIFT disclosed in early February. "SWIFT is accelerating flows to achieve instant processing between 4 billion accounts and 11,000 institutions in more than 200 countries."

The daily amount SWIFT handles stand at about $5 trillion, according to media reports, citing the US Treasury. Annually, with about 250 business days, SWIFT handles about $1.25 quadrillion.

Zhou, a frequently cited voice in central bank digital currency, also said at the forum that the cross-border use of China's central bank digital currency e-CNY can't be ruled out, but the possibility would focus on its use in cross-border retail.

The e-CNY is not meant to replace the US dollar and it "can't be easily used as military weapon," he said.


----------



## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Moskva's GPS coordinates were given to the Ukrainians by foreign powers with satellites overlooking the Black Sea. The Ukrainians are also getting solid weapons, intelligence, and special forces' support from Western powers. So the direct participation of NATO and its allies in this war is pretty much obvious.
> 
> Now, would it become a World War III? It remains to be seen, but the West's direct participation in this conflict is there.


So what did Ukraine do with the GPS coordinates of the Moskva? nothing right? because it was accidental fire that blew up the ship?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Muhammed45 said:


> Both sevastopol and Crimea are Russian majority lands. They actually belong to Russians.
> Donbass on the other hand is resisting against occupation by NATO affiliated government of Kiev. Their resistance is truly legitimate given the NAZI policies of Kiev on Russian people of donbass.
> 
> Maybe @vostok sir, could shed more light on this subject. Why are Russian ethnics of Ukraine being persecuted and attacked?




Imagine living in a country where at least 30% of the population is Russian-speaking citizens, but under a new law from the current govt led by Zelensky, the Russian language is outlawed from all government institutions in Ukraine. They can only speak the language in their homes but not in any government office or state organs. 

The Minsk II agreement was addressing that issue plus other grievances that the Russian-speakers in Eastern Ukraine had with the government in Kiev. It was the current govt in Kiev, backed by Western powers, that has walked away from that agreement. They also had launched a military offensive against their fellow Russian-speaking citizens in Ukraine. And this is what triggered this conflict plus the option of bringing NATO into the Russian borders.

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## WotTen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515239048302010368



Wait, is Medvedev _admitting_ that the Moskva was sunk by Ukrainian missiles?

I thought the official Russian story was that it was an accidental ammo fire.

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## Akasa

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Moskva's GPS coordinates were given to the Ukrainians by foreign powers with satellites overlooking the Black Sea. The Ukrainians are also getting solid weapons, intelligence, and special forces' support from Western powers. So the direct participation of NATO and its allies in this war is pretty much obvious.
> 
> Now, would it become a World War III? It remains to be seen, but the West's direct participation in this conflict is there.


Right, but there is a clear delineation of the escalation level associated with providing intelligence/materiel/logistical support to one side versus actively participating in a conflict on their behalf.

The United States understands this, which is why it did not retaliate against the USSR or China when the two countries extended military aid to North Vietnam during the Vietnam War.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Slipping into a war of attrition, the consequences will be dire for the world especially EU in the coming months and even years.

Due to disruption all these are leading to food supplies and energy shortages.

High inflation has hit most EU states and many citizens in these states are slipping into poverty.

Without welfare programs in place which in any case these givernment can't afford, the final loser won't be Russia but the European themselves.

That is why many EU nations suddenly waking up and understand why China, India, etc abstained in the UN.

Their National Security interests which include Food supplies and Energy comes first.

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## K_Bin_W

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> EU Warns Members That Paying Rubles For Gas Would Violate Sanctions​By ZeroHedge - Apr 15, 2022, 1:30 PM CDT
> 
> An internal European Commission note, the contents of which has come to light and is being reported for the first time on Thursday, has spelled out that *European buyers agreeing to pay for Russian gas in roubles would be violating EU sanctions against Moscow*.
> 
> "This mechanism would lead to a breach of the existing EU restrictive measures adopted in respect of Russia, its government, the Central Bank of Russia, and their proxies," Reuters reports of decrees in the internal note after reviewing its contents.
> 
> It threatens to further escalate the energy standoff which has ensued after Vladimir Putin demanded payment for Russian gas in roubles by "unfriendly countries" which have leveled sanctions on Russia in the wake of the Feb.24 Ukraine invasion - the exemptions given to Austria and Hungary of late notwithstanding.
> 
> According to more from the internal memo:
> 
> _The EU buyer would still pay Gazprombank in the contract currency - euros or dollars - but the purchase would only be complete once Gazprombank exchanges the currency into roubles in a deal with the Russian central bank, and deposits the roubles in the second account, the note said._
> 
> The memo underscores, "The effect ... is that a payment is completed not in the currency established under the contract at the moment it is deposited in the accounts ... but rather *only at an unknown and undefined moment once the foreign currency* ... *is converted into roubles *and credited to the second special account."
> 
> The European Commission wrote further, "The Russian State, through its central bank, has total control over the foreign currency... which it can manipulate entirely to its own benefit."
> 
> Essentially the commission ruling on the matter would make Putin's rouble stipulation completely off limits for individual European countries and entities, especially as the process would involve Russia overseeing the whole payment process.
> 
> Meanwhile, on Thursday Putin addressed the crisis in fresh statements. "Attempts by Western countries *to squeeze out Russian suppliers and replace our energy resources with alternative supplies will inevitably affect the entire world economy*. The consequences of such a step can become very painful, and first of all, for the initiators of such a policy themselves. What is surprising here is that our so-called partners from unfriendly countries admit that they cannot do without Russian energy resources, including natural gas, for example."
> 
> He talked about reorienting "our exports to the fast-growing markets of* the south and east*..." and warned Europe at the same time:
> 
> "*A reasonable alternative for Europe simply doesn’t exist*. Yes, it's possible, but right now, it doesn’t exist. Everyone understands this; there are simply no free volumes on the global market right now, and supplies from other countries — primarily from the United States, which can be sent to Europe — will cost consumers many times more and will affect the standard of living of people and the competitiveness of the European economy,” Putin said.
> 
> He also addressed instances of payment failures and delays...
> 
> "Banks from unfriendly countries delay the transfer of payments.* I will remind you, the task has already been set to transfer payments for energy resources in national currency, to gradually move away from the dollar and the euro*. In general, we intend to radically increase the share of settlements in national currencies in the foreign trade system," Putin said.
> 
> Thus, given the contents in this latest European Commission note, it looks as if there's no off-ramp and the energy standoff will continue. At the same time Putin is touting that Russia still has 'friends' and thus greater options in the east and south, without doubt including India and China.



There you have it 

*A reasonable alternative for Europe simply doesn’t exist*. * I will remind you, the task has already been set to transfer payments for energy resources in national currency, to gradually move away from the dollar and the euro*

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## CAPRICORN-88

WotTen said:


> Wait, is Medvedev _admitting_ that the Moskva was sunk by Ukrainian missiles?
> 
> I thought the official Russian story was that it was an accidental ammo fire.


Then why are the Ukrainian Neptune batteries not firing at other Russian warships as well?

These are mere words of war which neither side can proved nor need to prove. 

*Russia is trying to prove US clandestine role and involvement in the Ukrainian conflict and drawing them directly in. *

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Akasa said:


> Right, but there is a clear delineation of the escalation level associated with providing intelligence/materiel/logistical support to one side versus actively participating in a conflict on their behalf.
> 
> The United States understands this, which is why it did not retaliate against the USSR or China when the two countries extended military aid to North Vietnam during the Vietnam War.




Vietnam wasn't an existential threat to USA as Ukraine is to Russia. The Vietnamese people wanted to free themselves from the French colonialists. And after they threw them out, America intervened. The whole communist expansion was a wrong excuse. America and its allies had no business of getting themselves involved in that conflict in the first place. 

The West did the same thing in Angola in a smaller scale. When Angolans threw the Portuguese out, apartheid South Africa, backed by Western powers, intervened, and the conflict was going on for decades.

So in this current conflict between Russia and Ukraine, Russia can't withdraw like US did from Vietnam. They had to stay in and protect the Russian speaking people in Donbas, and since Ukraine is determined to get this land and Crimea back with the backing of the West, Russians may be forced to use whatever means in their disposal against Ukraine and its backers. We're in World War III whether we accept it or not, and Russians have no choice but to pursue this to the end.

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## FuturePAF

The crew of the Moskva at Sevastopol.

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## CAPRICORN-88

K_Bin_W said:


> There you have it
> 
> *A reasonable alternative for Europe simply doesn’t exist*. * I will remind you, the task has already been set to transfer payments for energy resources in national currency, to gradually move away from the dollar and the euro*



EU nations in compliance that needs Russian Gas badly will simply have to find a way to circumvent the sanctions. 

That is why they are depositing the payment in Euro to Gasprom Bank but the catch is, the oil transaction can only be executed only after these Euro are converted to Ruble as per Russian President decree in Gasprom Bank. 

Germany the biggest user for one is challenging the legality. It is like shooting oneself in the foot in the process. 

News Medias are reporting that most Germans are unhappy.

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## WotTen

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *Russia is trying to prove US clandestine role and involvement in the Ukrainian conflict and drawing them directly in. *



What's to prove when the US is *openly* saying they are shipping weapons to Ukraine? As is almost every other NATO country.

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## CAPRICORN-88

K_Bin_W said:


> There you have it
> 
> *A reasonable alternative for Europe simply doesn’t exist*. * I will remind you, the task has already been set to transfer payments for energy resources in national currency, to gradually move away from the dollar and the euro*


It does and that is to leave EU just like Brexit or gets kicked out.

Many EU nations are mulling this alternative.

But is Brussels preparing to take this route that will lead to the breakup of the Union?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515475637922037763

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515464437708296193


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## CAPRICORN-88

WotTen said:


> What's to prove when the US is *openly* saying they are shipping weapons to Ukraine? As is almost every other NATO country.


That is why Russia has issued an official warning that this action to supply weapons diectly to Ukraine will have serious consequences a few days ago.

The new US Administration don't seems to understand international protocol and diplomcy.

The US State Department, etc appeared and behave like rookies and a runaway wagon unlike the era of JFK where it was still much safer for the rest of the world.

They have a President that only has a 32% job rating.

Imagine after insulting and calling Russian President Putin said a butcher but still did not send in the US Calvary into Ukraine.

That is not USA.

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## WotTen

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> That is why Russia has issued an official warning that this action to supply weapons diectly to Ukraine will have serious consequences a few days ago.



Russia has been issuing these warnings since day one. Russia also said they would invade Sweden and Finland if they joined NATO. Now Russia is stepping back the threat to saying they will respond by putting nuclear weapons in Balkan area.

Russia knows that any conflict with NATO will have to go nuclear. Russia simply cannot fight NATO in a conventional war.


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## CAPRICORN-88

*The Russian central bank reaffirmed their commitment to a floating Ruble to be determined by market force.*

Russia has imposed foreign exchange controls to support liquidity.

But still subscrive to preserving market pricing principles and a rouble exchange rated determined by the market, the bank's first deputy governor said on Friday.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

WotTen said:


> Russia has been issuing these warnings since day one. Russia also said they would invade Sweden and Finland if they joined NATO. Now Russia is stepping back the threat to saying they will respond by putting nuclear weapons in Balkan area.
> 
> Russia knows that any conflict with NATO will have to go nuclear. Russia simply cannot fight NATO in a conventional war.




There is a difference and one need to learn to filter the non essentials of these statements.

This one is a firm WARNING not Jen Psaki nor Jen Stoltenberg rhetorics.

EU unlike the US faraway is not taking this lightly unlike the tge gregarious and mindless Americans who lived far away as it may ended up with the EU in nuclear flame. Just one push of a button away.

Is NATO prepared to take the road?

Then why not send NATO troops into Ukraine now.

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515178046134919179
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515178047036665856
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515178048055828482
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515178048932483080
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515178051809779715
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515178052845723649



This is more or less consistent with what I was saying a week ago.

Anything besides the Izyum gap is of little importance on strategic outcome.

Russia keeps sending forces to be slaughtered piecemeal past Izyum is easy to explain:

The alternative to not losing 1 BTG every 2 days is Ukraine retaking the Izyum gap, and pouring into hilly terrain, and endangering Russian control of bridges across Oskil. That patch of serious hilly terrain continues to the Russian border. Fighting in hills will massively negate Russian advantage in armour, and multiply ATGMs' efficiency.

So they are afraid of Ukrainian force which is 50%-40% smaller, and poorer equipped in that part of the front from going after them.

This means their 25-20 BTGs east of Izyum gathered from last reserves, and previously beaten units may be weak to the point that they themselves are now on defensive.

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## WotTen

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> There is a difference and one need to learn to filter the non essentials of these statements.
> 
> This one is a firm WARNING not Jen Psaki nor Jen Stoltenberg rhetorics.
> 
> EU unlike the US faraway is not taking this lightly unlike the tge gregarious and mindless Americans who lived far away as it may ended up with the EU in nuclear flame. Just one push of a button away.
> 
> Is NATO prepared to take the road?
> 
> Then why not send NATO troops into Ukraine now.



NATO is humiliating Putin already. They don't need to send troops and directly engage him. The only loser in this is the Ukrainian people.

You don't see how embarrassing it is to warn somebody and they ignore your warning and you do nothing but issue more warnings?

And this goes on for two months...

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## PakFactor

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Slipping into a war of attrition, the consequences will be dire for the world especially EU in the coming months and even years.
> 
> Due to disruption all these are leading to food supplies and energy shortages.
> 
> High inflation has hit most EU states and many citizens in these states are slipping into poverty.
> 
> Without welfare programs in place which in any case these givernment can't afford, the final loser won't be Russia but the European themselves.
> 
> That is why many EU nations suddenly waking up and understand why China, India, etc abstained in the UN.
> 
> Their National Security interests which include Food supplies and Energy comes first.





CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Then why are the Ukrainian Neptune batteries not firing at other Russian warships as well?
> 
> These are mere words of war which neither side can proved nor need to prove.
> 
> *Russia is trying to prove US clandestine role and involvement in the Ukrainian conflict and drawing them directly in. *



Sadly, very few will understand, hence, the smart ones abstained or voted against and on the side street watching the car wreck. But there are other motives besides economics as well why the rest of world isn’t giving much attention to Europe crying for support. 



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515475637922037763



Selective reasoning much, lol


----------



## mmr

WotTen said:


> NATO is humiliating Putin already. They don't need to send troops and directly engage him. The only loser in this is the Ukrainian people.
> 
> You don't see how embarrassing it is to warn somebody and they ignore your warning and you do nothing but issue more warnings?
> 
> And this goes on for two months...


what can putin do anyway...except nukes he dont have anything...nato will simply send russia to stone age without nukes

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## CAPRICORN-88

WotTen said:


> NATO is humiliating Putin already. They don't need to send troops and directly engage him. The only loser in this is the Ukrainian people.
> 
> You don't see how embarrassing it is to warn somebody and they ignore your warning and you do nothing but issue more warnings?
> 
> And this goes on for two months...


That will be interesting.

Explain to us how did NATO humiliate Russia? Your explanation is illogical and strangely you agreed the only loser is the Ukrainian themaelves? East or West! You did not clarify.

The US offers new F-16V in exchange for every Soviet era warplanes donated by these ex-Warsaw Pact nations and Poland agreed but will only delivered them to US base in Germany for US to despatch. The US was alarmed and said NO. That is what humiliation is all about.

I am only highlighting the danger and implication of such warning but I guess many will take it lightly until it is too late.

Fools rush in where angel dare not to tread.

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## thetutle

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> That will be interesting.
> 
> Explain to us how did NATO humiliate Russia? Your explanation is illogical and strangely you agreed the only loser is the Ukrainian themaelves? East or West! You did not clarify.
> 
> The US offers new F-16V in exchange for every Soviet era warplanes donated by these ex-Warsaw Pact nations and Poland agreed but will only delivered them to US base in Germany for US to despatch. The US was alarmed and said NO. That is what humiliation is all about.
> 
> I am only highlighting the danger and implication of such warning but I guess many will take it lightly until it is too late.
> 
> Fools rush in where angel dare not to tread.


The only ones that think Russia is doing well are the Russian people. Even Putin knows how this is going. That’s why he is putting FSB agents in jail and removing generals.

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## CAPRICORN-88

thetutle said:


> The only ones that think Russia is doing well are the Russian people. Even Putin knows how this is going. That’s why he is putting FSB agents in jail and removing generals.


This is a war that is going one direction.
Even the Pentagon admitted it in its statement:

*Russia is shaping the war in Ukraine. *

Without a political settlement with Russia, IMO and many there is no future for ukraine.

Now that Russia will upgrade the action to hitting decision making centers, will Ukraine leadership be in operation in exile?

No foreign investors will ever dare to step a foot into Ukraine without a peaceful political settlement with Russia and that is a fact and reality easily ignored with all these cheering by partisans.

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## ahtan_china

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> That will be interesting.
> 
> Explain to us how did NATO humiliate Russia? Your explanation is illogical and strangely you agreed the only loser is the Ukrainian themaelves? East or West! You did not clarify.
> 
> The US offers new F-16V in exchange for every Soviet era warplanes donated by these ex-Warsaw Pact nations and Poland agreed but will only delivered them to US base in Germany for US to despatch. The US was alarmed and said NO. That is what humiliation is all about.
> 
> I am only highlighting the danger and implication of such warning but I guess many will take it lightly until it is too late.
> 
> Fools rush in where angel dare not to tread.


Chinese military fans are laughing at the USA for not daring to Soviet era warplanes to Ukraine. I don't think USA is a qualified boss

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## sammuel

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> No foreign investors will ever dare to step a foot into Ukraine without a peaceful political settlement with Russia and that is a fact and reality easily ignored with all these cheering by partisans.



The the only man that can stop this war is Putin.

And so far he has made no reasonable offer that would bring peace.

Russians negotiations where in bad faith from the beginning.



~

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## conworldus

Even the most absolute dictator must adhere to public opinion. Putin is the leader of Russia, but to say that he alone was the reason for this war is delusional. The consensus in Russia is that this war is about Russia's survival as a country. Putin is the face of that consensus.

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## sammuel

conworldus said:


> The consensus in Russia is that this war is about Russia's survival as a country. Putin is the face of that consensus.



Seemed to be doing well enough before.


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## The SC

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> That will be interesting.
> 
> Explain to us how did NATO humiliate Russia? Your explanation is illogical and strangely you agreed the only loser is the Ukrainian themaelves? East or West! You did not clarify.
> 
> The US offers new F-16V in exchange for every Soviet era warplanes donated by these ex-Warsaw Pact nations and Poland agreed but will only delivered them to US base in Germany for US to despatch. The US was alarmed and said NO. That is what humiliation is all about.
> 
> I am only highlighting the danger and implication of such warning but I guess many will take it lightly until it is too late.
> 
> Fools rush in where angel dare not to tread.


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/stra...e-decisive-weapon-in-it.740297/#post-13714007


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515539904863821828

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514827633787297794

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## Viet

Piotr said:


> Crew of Russian Cruiser Moskva to Continue Serving in Navy - Defense Ministry​1 hour ago
> 
> MOSCOW (Sputnik) - The crew of the sunken Russian guided missile cruiser Moskva will carry on with their service in the country's navy, the Russian Defense Ministry said on Saturday.
> On Thursday, the ministry said that the vessel, which had been damaged after ammunition explosion, sunk during stormy weather.
> 
> "The commander-in-chief of the navy, Admiral Nikolay Yevmenov, and the Black Sea Fleet command had a meeting with the crew of the guided missile cruiser Moskva in Sevastopol. Admiral Nikolay Yevmenov informed the cruiser's crew that the officers, midshipmen and sailors will continue their service in the navy," the ministry said on Telegram.
> Conscript crew members of Moskva will be retired to reserve from may to June in line with law, Yevmenov said in a separate statement on Russian television channel Zvezda.
> The ship, whose initial name was "Slava," was laid down in Mykolaiv in 1976 and commissioned in 1983.
> 
> https://sputniknews.com/20220416/cr...ng-in-navy---defense-ministry-1094821942.html
> 
> Crew of Sunken Moskva Missile Cruiser Re-Enlists To Continue Service In Navy​
> 
> 
> https://www.bitchute.com/video/3HvqkTizClGj/


Interesting
Despite hit by 2 missiles they all be alive.
They seem invincible. But where can they go? The Moskwa is destroyed.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515492020894281734

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515120293051871235


Nothing with democratic or liberal international order. If you burn the neighbor house you must pay the damage. And land in jail. That’s even common sense in most primitive countries. US keeps seized money to compensate the damaged Russia has done. Nothing wrong with that.


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## The SC

Surrender instructions for military personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the National Guard of Ukraine and other armed personnel in Mariupol.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515526724456521736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515520587472416770

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## Viet

nufix said:


> Not really, journalist is a job that can be performed by people with almost any background. There is ofcourse Ausbildung to become journalist, but anyone with a degree can be a journalist as long as they are actively publishing stories.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ausbildung zum Journalist - Inhalte, Gehalt, Zukunftschancen
> 
> 
> Journalisten bzw. Redakteure sammeln Informationen, verarbeiten und verbreiten sie, um zu informieren, zu berichten, etwas anzustoßen oder zu unterhalten. Dazu nutzen sie Online- und Printmedien, das Radio und das Fernsehen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aubi-plus.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some of my friend became journalists and their background range from PoWi, WiWi to BioWi.


Ok you are right. However you can see it, the requirements are high. Good command in language, good in communication skills, having graduated at a university or college.
Be a blogger is not.
Since the war begins there are floods of faked news, lies, propaganda from Moskow.


----------



## lightning F57

Ukraine is fast turning into the Afghanistan of the west.

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## The SC




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## mmr

lightning F57 said:


> Ukraine is fast turning into the Afghanistan of the west.


only if pigs can fly


----------



## SalarHaqq

Viet said:


> That’s the wonderful thing in the west, people can select anyone they like. They can vote the racist, liberal, xenophobist, leftist, rightist, centrist, gay, trotzkist, communist. Whoever has majority wins.



Elections in the west are engineered from ground up. The candidate chosen by the system, by the deep state, by unelected pressure groups, lobbies, big business and masonic secret societies is the one that is "elected". 

Also the only reason why Macron is going to be reelected, is because the left views him as the lesser evil compared to Le Pen, and is therefore going to ask its voters to opt for Macron in the second round. But that still means most of those who will vote for Macron in the second round do not support him nor his political program. The elected president will thus have very weak popular legitimacy, since the majority of voters will not identify with his policies. This is why the regime is in deep trouble, and they know it.

Had it not been the case that the left dislikes Le Pen even more than it dislikes the ruling party, then the regime would have resorted to other political stratagems and manipulations in order to bring about its desired outcome. And if these stratagems failed to yield results, they would not hesitate to bend the rules of their so-called "democracy". Case in point: the unprecedented censorship targeting journalists, analysts and scholars who refuse to toe the official line on the conflict in Ukraine.

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## jamahir

Viet said:


> Nothing with democratic or liberal international order. If you burn the neighbor house you must pay the damage. And land in jail. That’s even common sense in most primitive countries. US keeps seized money to compensate the damaged Russia has done. Nothing wrong with that.



So, when is NATO going to compensate North Korea, Iraq, Venezuela, Libya and Syria ?



Viet said:


> Ok you are right. However you can see it, the requirements are high. Good command in language, good in communication skills, having graduated at a university or college.
> Be a blogger is not.
> Since the war begins there are floods of faked news, lies, propaganda from Moskow.



A few billion in the world are college / university graduates but doesn't mean they are sensible and truthful, including those "reporters" from BBC etc.



Viet said:


> That’s the wonderful thing in the west, people can select anyone they like. They can vote the racist, liberal, xenophobist, leftist, rightist, centrist, gay, trotzkist, communist. Whoever has majority wins. Try that in Russia. Citing those as Nato hater is low.



Let me see the American military-industrial establishment allow the Communists to take governance power. The Establishment sabotaged the Occupy Wall Street movement of 2011.

Please read this post of mine on what is not democracy, the origin of democracy and where it was implemented in the modern world.

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## Viet

SalarHaqq said:


> Elections in the west are engineered from ground up. The candidate chosen by the system, by the deep state, by unelected pressure groups, lobbies, big business and masonic secret societies is the one that is "elected".
> 
> Also the only reason why Macron is going to be reelected, is because the left views him as the lesser evil compared to Le Pen, and is therefore going to ask its voters to opt for Macron in the second round. But that still means most of those who will vote for Macron in the second round do not support him nor his political program. The elected president will thus have very weak popular legitimacy, since the majority of voters will not identify with his policies. This is why the regime is in deep trouble, and they know it.
> 
> Had it not been the case that the left dislikes Le Pen even more than it dislikes the ruling party, then the regime would have resorted to other political stratagems and manipulations in order to bring about its desired outcome. And if these stratagems failed to yield results, they would not hesitate to bend the rules of their so-called "democracy". Case in point: the unprecedented censorship targeting journalists, analysts and scholars who refuse to toe the official line on the conflict in Ukraine.


Again, that’s the beauty why the West is rich, prosperous, developed, mighty army, clean tap water, great foods, people having 2 or 3 holidays per year. Leaders as Merkel, Macron or Trump will go out office after a fixed periods. check and balance.

You can chose living in venezuela, cuba, russia as you like. Please don’t bother other people.

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## SalarHaqq

Viet said:


> Again, that’s the beauty why the West is rich, prosperous, mighty army, people having 2 or 3 holidays per year. Leaders as Merkel, Macron or Trump will go out office after a fixed periods. check and balance.



People being ruled by someone they loathe is beautiful? Being given the choice between bad and worse is desirable?

Merkel, Macron, Trump go out of office only to be replaced by a person who will pursue the same fundamental policies, because guidelines are set by unelected lobbies, private interest groups, esoterist secret societies as well as banksters. Six of one and half a dozen of the other.

Voters aren't offered any real alternative in liberal so-called democracy, they never were. It's just hollow theatrics to try and legitimize organized theft, war crimes and subtle but totalitarian control over the masses.

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## CAPRICORN-88

We have a lot of comedians and jokers around us.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515353946021408787

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## CAPRICORN-88

*Boris Johnson boasted UK can go to war alone without the US or NATO. *

  

Now the the British comedian and joker and his companion Liz Truss got banned from performing in Russia.

The wide-eye US and NATO wanderers are not laughing.

An Englishman's dry joke.

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## Viet

jamahir said:


> So, when is NATO going to compensate North Korea, Iraq, Venezuela, Libya and Syria ?
> 
> 
> 
> A few billion in the world are college / university graduates but doesn't mean they are sensible and truthful, including those "reporters" from BBC etc.
> 
> 
> 
> Let me see the American military-industrial establishment allow the Communists to take governance power. The Establishment sabotaged the Occupy Wall Street movement of 2011.
> 
> Please read this post of mine on what is not democracy, the origin of democracy and where it was implemented in the modern world.


Who is the “people” in your definition? You determine who they are? How they should behave? Don’t act like you are the chosen one. I give you right though. No system is perfect. Democracy is not perfect. But don’t forget Liberty is not perfect. Communism is not perfect, either. Nothing is perfect. The thing if you have a choice or not.
If I don’t like Germany I can go to Austria tomorrow. I have a choice.

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## The SC

Russia is increasingly harassing NATO planes near Polish airspace.

“The current situation brings more tension and risks and is certainly more dangerous for the entire NATO community,” said the Head of the Polish Air Force Directorate General Ireneus Nowak via video conference.

Nowak said that Russian Su-35, Su-27 and MiG-29 aircraft flying from Belarus have approached Polish airspace several times since the invasion of Ukraine.

"It's a fairly recurring situation," Novak said. Fighters are dispatched two or three times usually within 24 hours, which is a lot.”

Nowak said Russia keeps its airborne early-warning and control aircraft, the A-50 Perev, in the air at all times. Russian air defense systems also track NATO aircraft.

Even as NATO increases the number of aircraft, Russia is testing the airspace and NATO response time. “They are harassing us. They are forcing us to send the planes, forcing us to intercept them,” Nowak said.


https://www.airforcemag.com/nato-intercepts-of-russian-aircraft-near-polands-skies-increasing/


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515555530999218178


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515555530999218178


Kiev will never be the same again.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515524503371190281


----------



## The SC

The Russian Ministry of Defense published a press report highlighting the use of the portable “Vagot” and “Sturm-S” self-propelled anti-tank systems in the Russian military operation in Ukraine.






The Sturm-S system is a multi-mission, self-propelled system that is used to combat tanks and other armored vehicles, manpower, field fortifications, and even low-flying aircraft such as helicopters and drones.

The missile is equipped with a laser guidance system that forms the basis of the system. Special programs have been prepared to control the missile after its launch. The missile flies above the aiming line, and when it approaches the target to a distance of 1000 meters, it begins to decline until it reaches the target.

The operator can see the guided missile, whatever the weather conditions. The missile is protected from electronic interference thanks to the use of special codes and 5G fixed frequencies. The developed Ataka missile has a launch range of 8 km.

The launcher includes 12 missiles that are fired automatically from rotating containers, at a rate of 3-4 missiles per minute.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515567518278168579


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515562241109774336

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The army that was supposedly "winning" the war according to Western media is hiding in kindergarten rooms while playing with bombs..... 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515569738457489410


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## CAPRICORN-88

sammuel said:


> The the only man that can stop this war is Putin.
> 
> And so far he has made no reasonable offer that would bring peace.
> 
> Russians negotiations where in bad faith from the beginning.
> 
> 
> 
> ~


Which is again lobesided and half truth based on wishful thinking.

*Zalensky who refused to attended the Feb 8 2022 to reaffirm his commitment to Minsk II which was filed in UN should be held fully responsible. *

Anyway and IMO it is already too late as Russian President has hardened his stance due to US and NATO clandestine activities thru proxies instead of engaging in a real war between them.

*In the coming days and weeks ahead, the effects of a tactical adjustment in what was initially a special military operation ordered by Russia President Putin has changed.*

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515522966708183047

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515569061958139908

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## CAPRICORN-88

*Meanwhile British PM Boris Johnson and 13 of his associates has been banned from entering Russia.*

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515083212187389958

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## CAPRICORN-88

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515569061958139908



Meaning that the heavy artilleries are already in position. Just waiting for the order to rave the steelwork to the ground. 

It will be a massacre of foreign mercenaries. Hope these foreigners come to their senses.

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## vizier

The SC said:


> The Russian Ministry of Defense published a press report highlighting the use of the portable “Vagot” and “Sturm-S” self-propelled anti-tank systems in the Russian military operation in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Sturm-S system is a multi-mission, self-propelled system that is used to combat tanks and other armored vehicles, manpower, field fortifications, and even low-flying aircraft such as helicopters and drones.
> 
> The missile is equipped with a laser guidance system that forms the basis of the system. Special programs have been prepared to control the missile after its launch. The missile flies above the aiming line, and when it approaches the target to a distance of 1000 meters, it begins to decline until it reaches the target.
> 
> The operator can see the guided missile, whatever the weather conditions. The missile is protected from electronic interference thanks to the use of special codes and 5G fixed frequencies. The developed Ataka missile has a launch range of 8 km.
> 
> The launcher includes 12 missiles that are fired automatically from rotating containers, at a rate of 3-4 missiles per minute.


That would be pretty effective against tanks. However being a large vehicle infantry atgm squads can target it as well as uavs can find them easily. Unmanned smaller atgm platforms would be a trend in my opinion like this one having a much lower height profile and signature with 4 atgms and a machine gun for attacking infantry.Ugvs may have a range issue because of line of sight and terrain but quad drones in air can be used as comm relays for longer ranges in my opinion and ai waypoints+gps to get close to operation zone.








Laser guided atgms diving at the last moment would probably work against hard kill active protection systems. Hard kills fire a straight unguided shots to a calculated t+1 position of the incoming missile. If for example laser/command guided missile comes straight but just at the end makes a random jump up-down maneuver when it is very close to tank then aps would have difficulty calculating and aiming to its t+1 position. Pop up-dive maneuver is already widely used in anti ship missiles to tackle down ships ciws.

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## The SC

Polish General Waldemar Sciczyk:

"The Kaliningrad region has been under Russian occupation since 1945... Now we should remember it, and it's time to return to Poland."







The Polish and American armies began military exercises 70 km from the borders of the Russian Kaliningrad region.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515456801956896769


----------



## The SC

vizier said:


> That would be pretty effective against tanks. However being a large vehicle infantry atgm squads can target it as well as uavs can find them easily. Unmanned smaller atgm platforms would be a trend in my opinion like this one having a much lower height profile and signature with 4 atgms and a machine gun for attacking infantry.Ugvs may have a range issue because of line of sight and terrain but quad drones in air can be used as comm relays for longer ranges in my opinion and ai waypoints+gps to get close to operation zone.
> 
> 
> View attachment 835074
> 
> 
> Laser guided atgms diving at the last moment would probably work against hard kill active protection systems. Hard kills fire a straight unguided shots to a calculated t+1 position of the incoming missile. If for example laser/command guided missile comes straight but just at the end makes a random jump up-down maneuver when it is very close to tank then aps would have difficulty calculating and aiming to its t+1 position. Pop up-dive maneuver is already widely used in anti ship missiles to tackle down ships ciws.


The Russian Uran-9 is powerfully armed with anti-tank missiles, an automatic cannon, and a machine gun. It can also be reconfigured to carry different weapons like surface-to-air missiles. Additionally, the unmanned vehicle is equipped with advanced optics and targeting systems including a laser warning system and thermal imaging.

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## WotTen

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Meaning that the heavy artilleries are already in position. Just waiting for the order to rave the steelwork to the ground.



Why bother with artillery? Why not just 'special delivery' of a cruise missile? It's not like the target is going anywhere.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

WotTen said:


> Why bother with artillery? Why not just 'special delivery' of a cruise missile? It's not like the target is going anywhere.


That is the most cost effective and destructive method in an encircled situation. 
It is very deadly and devastating.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515529174886268928


----------



## Viet

Russia army systematically destroys Ukraine agra infrastructure and supply chains.

Countries like Egypt and many other poor in Africa, Asia, America that rely on foods imports will suffer mass hunger and starvation.









Von der Leyen fordert schnelle Waffenlieferungen an die Ukraine


Sie unterscheide nicht zwischen schweren und leichten Waffen, sagt EU-Kommissionschefin von der Leyen. Die EU-Staaten sollten diese aber möglichst schnell in die Ukraine liefern. Zudem stellt die EU mehr Geld zur Verfügung und bereitet neue Sanktionen vor.




www.tagesschau.de

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## Viet

SalarHaqq said:


> People being ruled by someone they loathe is beautiful? Being given the choice between bad and worse is desirable?
> 
> Merkel, Macron, Trump go out of office only to be replaced by a person who will pursue the same fundamental policies, because guidelines are set by unelected lobbies, private interest groups, esoterist secret societies as well as banksters. Six of one and half a dozen of the other.
> 
> Voters aren't offered any real alternative in liberal so-called democracy, they never were. It's just hollow theatrics to try and legitimize organized theft, war crimes and subtle but totalitarian control over the masses.


Nobody stops you don’t want to live in the west. Yes the West is corrupt, decadent, selfish. Please go.

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## Soldier35

Movement of columns of Russian troops in Ukraine, Kharkiv region






The work of Russian electronic warfare systems in Ukraine. The video shows the Murmansk-BN electronic warfare system and the Krasukha-4 electronic warfare system. The company commander spoke about the use of the Krasukha-4 electronic warfare system in Ukraine. "The complex has proven itself very well, works flawlessly in all weather conditions. Our main task is to cover the grouping of troops from radar reconnaissance and targeted enemy air strikes. During the operation, 12 Bayraktar complexes were discovered, we suppressed them and the complexes could not make a targeted strike on our groups."

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## Hack-Hook

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515467920939311107


what use they selling it in black market and stashing the money in the account of Ukrainian oligarch


----------



## SalarHaqq

Viet said:


> Nobody stops you don’t want to live in the west. Yes the West is corrupt, decadent, selfish. Please go.



Ah, the classical, inevitable ad hominem one will with sooner or later get confronted with when daring to call out the true nature of oppressive secular liberal "democracy"... The procedure doesn't really strengthen the case of those resorting to it, but hey, that's nothing to complain about from my perspective now is it.

I'd suggest inviting me to leave this sorry place on the day NATO regimes stop trying to impose their failure of a social, political, economical and cultural model on our nations. On the day they shut down their mischievous propaganda and psy-ops operations of colossal proportions, cease their illegal wars of expansion and disband their terrorist proxies, dismiss their fifth columns wrecking havoc on our societies.

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## thetutle

SalarHaqq said:


> Ah, the classical, inevitable ad hominem one is confronted with sooner or later when daring to call out the true nature of oppressive secular liberal "democracy"... The procedure doesn't really strengthen the case of those resorting to it, but hey, that's nothing to complain about from my perspective now is it.
> 
> I'd suggest inviting me to leave this place on the day NATO regimes stop trying to impose their failure of a social, political, economical and cultural model on our nations. On the day they shut down their mischievous propaganda and psy-ops operations of colossal proportions, cease their illegal wars of expansion and disband their terrorist proxies, dismiss their fifth columns wrecking havoc on our societies.


But you don’t have to go to Your own country, you can go to some Great place like North Korea or Cuba. 

Anyway. Are you sure your own county was doing that great before the west took over?


----------



## SalarHaqq

thetutle said:


> But you don’t have to go to Your own country, you can go to some Great place like North Korea or Cuba.
> 
> Anyway. Are you sure your own county was doing that great before the west took over?



My country's doing great, thank you. It's one of the few independent ones, much like Korea.

I was merely trying to get back on topic, since I doubt my individual biography is of any relevance to a thread titled "Russia-Ukraine war - News and Developments". You appear to insist though, so let me provide a random example of why someone like me can be obliged to stay in a western country. Imagine one has a parent who, unlike oneself, wishes to reside here and is moreover an elderly person suffering from illness. Ironically, if one was to adopt the kind of individualist-materialist "values" promoted by western regimes and their oligarchies, one might be encouraged not to care about the parent and leave the place. Not if one intends to keep intact one's authentic culture of origin though. Just one example. There are various others, you may use your imagination.

As concerns nations wrecked by zio-American imperialists, yes, things got comparatively worse for them once the latter started meddling in their affairs.

By the way, aren't you and user @Viet praising the western system for its supposed freedom of speech? So the mere fact that I strongly criticize western regimes shouldn't normally bother you. Would you rather grant me the possibility to express my thoughts freely here and now, or do you believe I ought not enjoy this right on western soil, which in turn would contradict your advocacy of free speech?

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## WotTen

SalarHaqq said:


> NATO regimes stop trying to impose their failure of a social, political, economical and cultural model on our nations



Rich people have a good life in any country on Earth. The good thing about Western countries is that middle class and poor people also have a decent standard of living, and there are ample opportunities to climb the economic ladder honestly without selling your soul and resorting to corruption. This cannot be said in most non-Western countries.

As far as political freedom, the fact is that most people in the West don't even think about it. We have federal elections in Australia next month and I don't know or care about the different candidates. Most people I know are the same except a few nerdy guys who are deep into politics.

P.S. I am talking about domestic situation, but I will agree that many Western countries have foreign policies which violate their own liberal democratic principles.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515603853026209794

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515621246532259845

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## Viet

SalarHaqq said:


> Ah, the classical, inevitable ad hominem one is confronted with sooner or later when daring to call out the true nature of oppressive secular liberal "democracy"... The procedure doesn't really strengthen the case of those resorting to it, but hey, that's nothing to complain about from my perspective now is it.
> 
> I'd suggest inviting me to leave this place on the day NATO regimes stop trying to impose their failure of a social, political, economical and cultural model on our nations. On the day they shut down their mischievous propaganda and psy-ops operations of colossal proportions, cease their illegal wars of expansion and disband their terrorist proxies, dismiss their fifth columns wrecking havoc on our societies.


You are paranoid.

Nato is a military alliance, not a religious organization. She is not there to teach you on liberty, democracy, socialism, communism, sociology nor anything else. It’s like a closed party club. East european countries have reasons to join the club because they fear a certain hooligan.

I hope the NATO will expand to Far East.


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515083212187389958


German " explains " what other races are like.... Never heard that before huh......

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## Apollon

Iron Shrappenel said:


> German " explains " what other races are like.... Never heard that before huh......



Its funny when one knows german and understands what she actually is saying. The russian propaganda gets laughable then.

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## Beast

Viet said:


> Nobody stops you don’t want to live in the west. Yes the West is corrupt, decadent, selfish. Please go.


Honor is more important than food and bread in some case.


----------



## Viet

Iron Shrappenel said:


> German " explains " what other races are like.... Never heard that before huh......


Relax, she just says what many think, Russians are Asian savages. Without Ukraine, Russia is an Asian country like China or Bangladesh. Not anything against Asians I am Asian myself.

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## Ali_Baba

The SC said:


> Polish General Waldemar Sciczyk:
> 
> "The Kaliningrad region has been under Russian occupation since 1945... Now we should remember it, and it's time to return to Poland."
> 
> View attachment 835075
> 
> 
> 
> The Polish and American armies began military exercises 70 km from the borders of the Russian Kaliningrad region.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515456801956896769



If you use the same pervert obscene logic that Russia is attempting to use on Ukraine - then Germany has every right to conquer Kaliningrad take it over as they have a much better historical claim over the land as does Poland to an extent as well though further back in time.

Russia has no business owning Kaliningrad.

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## jamahir

Viet said:


> Relax, she just says what many think, Russians are Asian savages. Without Ukraine, Russia is an Asian country like China or Bangladesh. Not anything against Asians I am Asian myself.



Yes, Russians are Asian savages as against the kindly Anglos of USA military who used depleted uranium ammunition in Iraq and caused cancers among two generations of Iraqis or the other kindly European Belgians who massacred Libyans.

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## Mohsin A

This may end up being one of the most extraordinary revelations of this entire conflict so far. One of the main grievances Russia had with Ukraine was the fact that it was being groomed for NATO membership – a national security risk which Moscow deemed as completely unacceptable. 

Yesterday, the Wall Street Journal revealed how German chancellor Olaf Scholz had offered Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky a peace deal only days before Russia launched its “Special Military Operations” in Ukraine on February 24th. But Zelensky turned down the deal – claiming that Putin couldn’t be trusted to keep his promises. 

It turns out that Scholz was in the process of brokering a deal and told Zelensky during his visit to the Munich Security Conference on February 19th, “that Ukraine should renounce its NATO aspirations and declare neutrality as part of a wider European security deal between the West and Russia,” and that “the pact would be signed by Mr. Putin and Mr. Biden, who would jointly guarantee Ukraine’s security.” Incredibly, Zelensky rejected the offer to make a concession by declaring NATO neutrality, and thus avoid a war with Russia, and claimed that, “Putin couldn’t be trusted to uphold such an agreement and that most Ukrainians wanted to join NATO.” 

This revelation really exposes two key points. Firstly, that as a head of state, Zelensky is either grossly incompetent or completely reckless to needlessly place his country on the path to war with its neighbour. Secondly, it indicates the level of control that Washington has over his government, as he is being advised at every step of the way by the US State Department and CIA. 

It’s no secret that the US and UK have been egging-on Kiev to fight NATO’s war with Russia on their behalf – even if that means placing Kiev into an unwinnable position where it may end up having its armed forces completely destroyed, and Ukraine losing even more territory than it already has. Maybe Zelensky could have defused tensions 6 months ago by disavowing NATO aspirations and declaring Ukraine a neutral state. Such a declaration would certainly be welcome by Russia today, but in light of the West’s continued proxy war against Moscow, and the US and UK-led campaign to ‘cancel’ Russia from the global economic and financial system, as well as media, culture and sport, then it’s safe to say things have moved on considerably from this being just a NATO issue. 

All of this makes Zelensky more a liability than an asset for the future of Ukraine. 









REVEALED: Zelensky Was Offered a Peace Deal to Prevent War, But Rejected It - 21st Century Wire


21WIRE | This may end up being one of the most extraordinary revelations of this entire conflict so far.




21stcenturywire.com

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## WotTen

Mohsin A said:


> “the pact would be signed by Mr. Putin and Mr. Biden, who would jointly guarantee Ukraine’s security.”



Putin wanted Ukraine to renounce NATO aspirations but he also wanted to 'liberate' Russian speaking regions in eastern Ukraine. So it's not clear how he would reconcile his two demands.

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## SalarHaqq

Viet said:


> You are paranoid.
> 
> Nato is a military alliance, not a religious organization. She is not there to teach you on liberty, democracy, socialism, communism, sociology nor anything else. It’s like a closed party club. East european countries have reasons to join the club because they fear a certain hooligan.
> 
> I hope the NATO will expand to Far East.



I'd advise to read again. I wrote 'NATO_ regimes_', not simply 'NATO'. And NATO's the collective military arm of these imperialist regimes, used by the latter to impose their yoke on nations. There's no paranoia in this statement, given how it reflects reality.

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## jamahir

Viet said:


> You are paranoid.
> 
> Nato is a military alliance, not a religious organization. She is not there to teach you on liberty, democracy, socialism, communism, sociology nor anything else. It’s like a closed party club. East european countries have reasons to join the club because they fear a certain hooligan.
> 
> I hope the NATO will expand to Far East.



You did not reply to my post in 'Whatever'.


----------



## Viet

Mohsin A said:


> This may end up being one of the most extraordinary revelations of this entire conflict so far. One of the main grievances Russia had with Ukraine was the fact that it was being groomed for NATO membership – a national security risk which Moscow deemed as completely unacceptable.
> 
> Yesterday, the Wall Street Journal revealed how German chancellor Olaf Scholz had offered Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky a peace deal only days before Russia launched its “Special Military Operations” in Ukraine on February 24th. But Zelensky turned down the deal – claiming that Putin couldn’t be trusted to keep his promises.
> 
> It turns out that Scholz was in the process of brokering a deal and told Zelensky during his visit to the Munich Security Conference on February 19th, “that Ukraine should renounce its NATO aspirations and declare neutrality as part of a wider European security deal between the West and Russia,” and that “the pact would be signed by Mr. Putin and Mr. Biden, who would jointly guarantee Ukraine’s security.” Incredibly, Zelensky rejected the offer to make a concession by declaring NATO neutrality, and thus avoid a war with Russia, and claimed that, “Putin couldn’t be trusted to uphold such an agreement and that most Ukrainians wanted to join NATO.”
> 
> This revelation really exposes two key points. Firstly, that as a head of state, Zelensky is either grossly incompetent or completely reckless to needlessly place his country on the path to war with its neighbour. Secondly, it indicates the level of control that Washington has over his government, as he is being advised at every step of the way by the US State Department and CIA.
> 
> It’s no secret that the US and UK have been egging-on Kiev to fight NATO’s war with Russia on their behalf – even if that means placing Kiev into an unwinnable position where it may end up having its armed forces completely destroyed, and Ukraine losing even more territory than it already has. Maybe Zelensky could have defused tensions 6 months ago by disavowing NATO aspirations and declaring Ukraine a neutral state. Such a declaration would certainly be welcome by Russia today, but in light of the West’s continued proxy war against Moscow, and the US and UK-led campaign to ‘cancel’ Russia from the global economic and financial system, as well as media, culture and sport, then it’s safe to say things have moved on considerably from this being just a NATO issue.
> 
> All of this makes Zelensky more a liability than an asset for the future of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> REVEALED: Zelensky Was Offered a Peace Deal to Prevent War, But Rejected It - 21st Century Wire
> 
> 
> 21WIRE | This may end up being one of the most extraordinary revelations of this entire conflict so far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 21stcenturywire.com


Neutrality would not hinder the war. Zekenskky is right. Because the war is on since annexing of the Crime, plus, people forget Russia since years staging proxy war with Donbas separatists. Ten thousands of Ukraine died. Putin said he wanted to liberate Ukraine from Nazi. He wants Ukraine to disarm. He wants the East. He wants lots of things. NATO free is just one of multiple demands.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515660829433241602

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515656936355770371

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## thetutle

SalarHaqq said:


> By the way, aren't you and user @Viet praising the western system for its supposed freedom of speech? So the mere fact that I strongly criticize western regimes shouldn't normally bother you. Would you rather grant me the possibility to express my thoughts freely here and now, or do you believe I ought not enjoy this right on western soil, which in turn would contradict your advocacy of free speech?


Noone is stopping you. Certainly not me. But we do give the option of finding a better place to live if you don't like it in the west.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515643201306177538

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Haha Haha:
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## thetutle

Viet said:


> You are paranoid.
> 
> Nato is a military alliance, not a religious organization. She is not there to teach you on liberty, democracy, socialism, communism, sociology nor anything else. It’s like a closed party club. East european countries have reasons to join the club because they fear a certain hooligan.
> 
> I hope the NATO will expand to Far East.


NATO could expand to Japan and Korea and anyone else in Asia who wants it, but these countries already have a better defence pact than NATO. I am sure Japan does not want to feel obligated to defend Montenegro and Macedonia if they were ever attacked. 

But maybe an asian NATO should be formed, preferably with democracies. Phillipines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore. Korea, 

You are Vietnamese, I dot know how you feel about Vietnam being democratic at least to some degree.


----------



## SalarHaqq

thetutle said:


> But we do give the option of finding a better place to live if you don't like it in the west.



Great to know, I learnt something new today.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## thetutle

Mohsin A said:


> This may end up being one of the most extraordinary revelations of this entire conflict so far. One of the main grievances Russia had with Ukraine was the fact that it was being groomed for NATO membership – a national security risk which Moscow deemed as completely unacceptable.
> 
> Yesterday, the Wall Street Journal revealed how German chancellor Olaf Scholz had offered Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky a peace deal only days before Russia launched its “Special Military Operations” in Ukraine on February 24th. But Zelensky turned down the deal – claiming that Putin couldn’t be trusted to keep his promises.
> 
> It turns out that Scholz was in the process of brokering a deal and told Zelensky during his visit to the Munich Security Conference on February 19th, “that Ukraine should renounce its NATO aspirations and declare neutrality as part of a wider European security deal between the West and Russia,” and that “the pact would be signed by Mr. Putin and Mr. Biden, who would jointly guarantee Ukraine’s security.” Incredibly, Zelensky rejected the offer to make a concession by declaring NATO neutrality, and thus avoid a war with Russia, and claimed that, “Putin couldn’t be trusted to uphold such an agreement and that most Ukrainians wanted to join NATO.”
> 
> This revelation really exposes two key points. Firstly, that as a head of state, Zelensky is either grossly incompetent or completely reckless to needlessly place his country on the path to war with its neighbour. Secondly, it indicates the level of control that Washington has over his government, as he is being advised at every step of the way by the US State Department and CIA.
> 
> It’s no secret that the US and UK have been egging-on Kiev to fight NATO’s war with Russia on their behalf – even if that means placing Kiev into an unwinnable position where it may end up having its armed forces completely destroyed, and Ukraine losing even more territory than it already has. Maybe Zelensky could have defused tensions 6 months ago by disavowing NATO aspirations and declaring Ukraine a neutral state. Such a declaration would certainly be welcome by Russia today, but in light of the West’s continued proxy war against Moscow, and the US and UK-led campaign to ‘cancel’ Russia from the global economic and financial system, as well as media, culture and sport, then it’s safe to say things have moved on considerably from this being just a NATO issue.
> 
> All of this makes Zelensky more a liability than an asset for the future of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> REVEALED: Zelensky Was Offered a Peace Deal to Prevent War, But Rejected It - 21st Century Wire
> 
> 
> 21WIRE | This may end up being one of the most extraordinary revelations of this entire conflict so far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 21stcenturywire.com


These was nothing that could stop Putin from invading because he wanted to expand Russia's borders. That pretty clear to everyone.

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## Ali_Baba

Mystery of Moskva's crew: Russia releases soundless undated video claiming to show survivors of doomed warship - including captain who was said to have been killed by Ukrainian missile attack​








Russia releases video claiming to show survivors from Moskva warship


Footage appeared to show the naval chief Admiral Nikolay Yevmenov, 60, addressing naval officers and seamen in the Crimean port city of Sevastopol.




www.dailymail.co.uk





>> Russian Fake news just got busted...

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## mmr

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *Meanwhile British PM Boris Johnson and 13 of his associates has been banned from entering Russia.*


Boris will miss his vacation to Siberia.



Ali_Baba said:


> Mystery of Moskva's crew: Russia releases soundless undated video claiming to show survivors of doomed warship - including captain who was said to have been killed by Ukrainian missile attack​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia releases video claiming to show survivors from Moskva warship
> 
> 
> Footage appeared to show the naval chief Admiral Nikolay Yevmenov, 60, addressing naval officers and seamen in the Crimean port city of Sevastopol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> Russian Fake news just got busted...


They returned from dead like john snow of game of thrones


----------



## lightning F57

Ali_Baba said:


> Mystery of Moskva's crew: Russia releases soundless undated video claiming to show survivors of doomed warship - including captain who was said to have been killed by Ukrainian missile attack​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia releases video claiming to show survivors from Moskva warship
> 
> 
> Footage appeared to show the naval chief Admiral Nikolay Yevmenov, 60, addressing naval officers and seamen in the Crimean port city of Sevastopol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> Russian Fake news just got busted...


You cant rely on the daily mail one of the most rubbish news outlets on the UK

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## Meengla

Mohsin A said:


> It’s no secret that the US and UK have been egging-on Kiev to fight NATO’s war with Russia on their behalf – even if that means placing Kiev into an unwinnable position where it may end up having its armed forces completely destroyed, and Ukraine losing even more territory than it already has. *Maybe Zelensky could have defused tensions 6 months ago by disavowing NATO aspirations and declaring Ukraine a neutral state*. Such a declaration would certainly be welcome by Russia today, but in light of the West’s continued proxy war against Moscow, and the US and UK-led campaign to ‘cancel’ Russia from the global economic and financial system, as well as media, culture and sport, then it’s safe to say things have moved on considerably from this being just a NATO issue.



Yes.
The target since the end of the Cold War has always been Russia's riches. 
People need to watch Colonel Macgregor who keeps repeating what you are saying: The war is largely America-led and is being fought to the last Ukrainian. But as long as it depletes Russia's resources, it is okay!
Bolded part: What Zelensky is willing to offer now could have been done some months ago. Such tragedy!

NY Times front page--top news right now. This was inevitable but Ukraine was egged on to a futile fight! Idiots!

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515635571573420038


----------



## Viet

jamahir said:


> You did not reply to my post in 'Whatever'.


Whatever?
I didn’t see it where you asking.
Seriously speaking Russia is a sinking ship. There is no hope.
Many in the west say Russia will be a chinese colony. The same prediction I made on day 1. With every drop of oil that is sucked out of the ground Russia losing influence in the world.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515621345626767361
Dead Ukrainian soldiers littered on the road



Spoiler





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515619069600305154

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515673896560873481

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515675123717652481


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515686608942555137
Western countries erase another line on the sand. Moral perception of right and wrong changes based on what is needed


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515605614688411648

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## jamahir

lightning F57 said:


> You cant rely on the daily mail one of the most rubbish news outlets on the UK



Indeed. DaliyFail is always full of male homosexuals and gym-going muscular "fit" females. That's the kind of humanity DailyFail wants to fill up the world with.



Viet said:


> Whatever?
> I didn’t see it where you asking.



This post.



Viet said:


> Seriously speaking Russia is a sinking ship. There is no hope.
> Many in the west say Russia will be a chinese colony. The same prediction I made on day 1. With every drop of oil that is sucked out of the ground Russia losing influence in the world.



Remember the USSR flags that two Russian tanks were flying in the initial days of the war ? The Communists of Russia and their overt and covert sympathizers and the nationalists won't let Russia sink. Russia is a very important pole in the world.



Vergennes said:


> It's hilarious to note Putin's whore Lukashenko hasn't send any of his troops in Ukraine despite Putin's pressures.... He knows it will be a suicide. Belarussians won't die for Putin's crazyness.



You think the Americans and the Europeans will send their militaries to Ukraine to fight the Russians and the few Syrians ? Or send those militaries to Russia itself ?

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## Viet

Vergennes said:


> It's hilarious to note Putin's whore Lukashenko hasn't send any of his troops in Ukraine despite Putin's pressures.... He knows it will be a suicide. Belarussians won't die for Putin's crazyness.


“We, together with you, and with our sympathisers will move towards a multipolar, just, democratic world order”.

- Sergei Lavrov

* you= China, the new colonist
* sympathizer: stooges, lackeys such as Belarus
* democratic world order: mix of madness

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515695877477830658

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515660829433241602

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515695750839250948


----------



## Vergennes

jamahir said:


> You think the Americans and the Europeans will send their militaries to Ukraine to fight the Russians and the few Syrians ? Or send those militaries to Russia itself ?



Russia's military power was totally overrated,some thought they could steamroll Europe within days.

This war proved Russia's military might was only fabricated by the Russian regime,that it's an incompetent and fully corrupt military force. The only thing that compensate the fact that Russian armed forces are trash,are their nuclear weapons.

NATO would smash Russian military.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515611907394355200

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

Jake Tapper interviews Zelensky


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## jamahir

Vergennes said:


> Russia's military power was totally overrated,some thought they could steamroll Europe within days.
> 
> This war proved Russia's military might was only fabricated by the Russian regime,that it's an incompetent and fully corrupt military force. The only thing that compensate the fact that Russian armed forces are trash,are their nuclear weapons.
> 
> NATO would smash Russian military.



To defeat Iraq NATO had the benefit of years of sanctions on Iraq and no-fly-zones and still in the invasion of 2003 the Americans in particular, with their superior firepower and technology, took weeks in getting to Baghdad. I don't think Iraq had much of an air force, navy and air defence yet NATO didn't defeat Iraq in a matter of days which they must have thought would have. Russia has a big airforce ( bombers and all ), long range navy with nuclear submarines ( one nuclear missile submarine was off the coast of USA I think in February ) and I am sure has a big air defense network and also has anti-satellite laser and electronic attack systems ( think of NATO without satellites - GPS, Galileo and Starlink going offline ) and undersea internet cabling cut by Russia. And Russia also has tactical nuclear weapons and thermobaric weapons which I think are many in number. Not to mention China and ohters coming to the support of Russia.

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> Russia's military power was totally overrated,some thought they could steamroll Europe within days.
> 
> This war proved Russia's military might was only fabricated by the Russian regime,that it's an incompetent and fully corrupt military force. The only thing that compensate the fact that Russian armed forces are trash,are their nuclear weapons.
> 
> NATO would smash Russian military.




The US launched 500 cruise missiles on Day 1 of Gulf War 2. The US could easily launch 1,000+ cruise missiles in the opening few days and strike all of Russias air bases and staging areas on the border with Ukraine. 

5 B-2 bombers alone could launch 400 small diameter guided bombs in one pass at 70-100km range and hit moving targets. 

Russia wants no part of the US military.



jamahir said:


> To defeat Iraq NATO had the benefit of years of sanctions on Iraq and no-fly-zones and still in the invasion of 2003 the Americans in particular, with their superior firepower and technology, took weeks in getting to Baghdad. I don't think Iraq had much of an air force, navy and air defence yet NATO didn't defeat Iraq in a matter of days which they must have thought would have. Russia has a big airforce ( bombers and all ), long range navy with nuclear submarines ( one nuclear missile submarine was off the coast of USA I think in February ) and I am sure has a big air defense network and also has anti-satellite laser and electronic attack systems ( think of NATO without satellites - GPS, Galileo and Starlink going offline ) and undersea internet cabling cut by Russia. And Russia also has tactical nuclear weapons and thermobaric weapons which I think are many in number. Not to mention China and ohters coming to the support of Russia.




Russia would get completely crushed by the US military. The rate of Russian losses would be enormous. See my post above

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515714949833797643

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## Meengla

Vergennes said:


> Russia's military power was totally overrated,some thought they could steamroll Europe within days.
> 
> This war proved Russia's military might was only fabricated by the Russian regime,that it's an incompetent and fully corrupt military force. The only thing that compensate the fact that Russian armed forces are trash,are their nuclear weapons.
> 
> NATO would smash Russian military.



Yes, but you dodged his question. Belarussians don't have any reason to die for Russia, especially now that the war is shifting to Ukraine's south and southeast, as it should have been from the beginning, IF there was going to be a war--and neither do the NATO troops or, increasingly now, the 'volunteers' want to die for Ukraine.

Those of you egging on the Ukrainians in this futile war from a distance should stop. The south and the southeast of Ukraine is all but certain to fall to Russia because the Russians, incompetent as they are, have the firepower and the* will to shed blood* to take those regions!

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515719582933299202


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515703079282298882

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515654570277584896


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## Indos

Vergennes said:


> Russia's military power was totally overrated,some thought they could steamroll Europe within days.
> 
> This war proved Russia's military might was only fabricated by the Russian regime,that it's an incompetent and fully corrupt military force. The only thing that compensate the fact that Russian armed forces are trash,are their nuclear weapons.
> 
> NATO would smash Russian military.



Nope, it is just proving it is very hard to invade a large country, more over Ukraine gets huge help from all western countries, including USA, and has long border with NATO countries.

Like ATGM they get thousands of them, and Ukraine Army is large and they have huge reserve with all men should join the defense.

Just similar how difficult USA to fight Vietnamese where Vietnamese are helped by China and Russia weapons and ammunition where Vietnam has long border with China.

The same thing like happening in Afghanistan where the Mujahidin get supports from USA and Muslim countries where Afghanistan also has long border with Pakistan who has anti USSR during Soviet invasion in Afghanistan.


-------------------------------------------------------------------

Compare to Indonesia invasion to small East Timor........

USA invasion to Iraq is easier due to support from other Western nations and also Arab nations, and Iraq military has also been hit hart during first attack by Bush senior where at that time it was Iraq vs Every Body

Iraq ruler ( Saddam Hussein ) is also hated by their Shia majority population

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## kingQamaR

The only way that Russia can become as it was is to resurrect the Soviet economy. The old economic adage "gu.ns or butter" still stands no matter what currency a country uses. Russia would have to divert its economy and stop producing cars, TVs, washing machines, as well as a wide range of foodstuffs and divert its capacity to the military. Even then, it wouldn't match the capacity of the US on its own - forgetting the rest of NATO. Russia is a second rate power with nuclear weapons. It needs to accept that reality.

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## Meengla

Several weeks ago I had said that Mariupol reminded me of Stalingrad in WW2. To that, some pro Ukraine members here rubbished that idea and said that Mariupol is better protected, blah blah. But, while Stalingrad took far longer for the Soviets to take, Mariupol is falling in barely 2-3 months. This was no Stalingrad!! And those who allowed and cheered for this slaughter--from a distance--should answer for their inhumanity. Mariupol was going to fall and it has all but fallen except for the Steel plant. And I think Russia is going to gain the south and southeast of Ukraine and at least as long as Putin is alive won't let it go.










Live Updates: Ukraine’s Last Troops in Mariupol Hold On as Russia Demands Surrender


Gaining control of the southern port city would help Russia complete its coveted “land bridge” to occupied Crimea. Moscow struck military targets around Kyiv and Mykolaiv, in apparent retaliation for Ukraine’s sinking of a Russian warship.




www.nytimes.com





Live Updates: Ukraine’s Last Troops in Mariupol Hold On as Russia Demands Surrender​Gaining control of the southern port city would help Russia complete its coveted “land bridge” to occupied Crimea. Moscow struck military targets around Kyiv and Mykolaiv, in apparent retaliation for Ukraine’s sinking of a Russian warship.







Russia warned on Sunday that the remaining Ukrainian fighters in Mariupol would be “eliminated” if they did not surrender — an ominous sign of a potentially bloody battle to capture the last Ukrainian redoubt in the southern port city that Moscow’s forces have besieged for nearly two months.

The Russian Defense Ministry said that the Ukrainian forces holding out at a sprawling steel plant in the city had “forbade negotiations about surrendering,” citing an intercepted radio transmission, and repeated a demand that they put down their weapons immediately.

“In case of further resistance,” the ministry said, “all of them will be eliminated.”

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry (Part 2)

▫️During the offensive to liberate Mariupol city, a special operation to free hostages held by Ukrainian Nazis in Turkish mosque was carried out in Primorskiy district on April 16 at the request of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.

▫️As a result of the courageous actions of the Russian special operations group, the mosque was released and 29 militants, including foreign mercenaries, were killed.
Hostages, citizens of a CIS country, released and taken to a safe location.

▫️A Ukrainian group encircled and completely blockaded in Mariupol on the territory of the Azovstal plant has been asked to voluntarily lay down arms and surrender in order to save their lives.

▫️However, the Kiev nationalist regime, according to the radio intercept, forbade negotiations on surrender, ordering Azov Nazis to shoot on sight any willing to lay down arms among Ukrainian soldiers and foreign mercenaries.

▫️In total, according to the Ukrainian servicemen who surrendered, up to 400 foreign mercenaries are now encircled on the territory of Azovstal plant as part of the Ukrainian grouping.

▫️Most of them are citizens of European countries as well as Canada. We previously reported that radio conversations between militants in Mariupol were conducted in six foreign languages. In the case of further resistance, they will all be eliminated.

▫️Since the start of the special military operation, the Kiev nationalist regime has brought 6,824 foreign mercenaries from 63 countries to Ukraine.

▫️The largest group came from Poland - 1,717 people. About 1,500 mercenaries came from the US, Canada and also Romania. From the UK and Georgia, each up to 300 people.

▫️193 people arrived from Turkish-controlled areas of the Syrian Arab Republic.

▫️The majority of the mercenaries are now deployed in Ukrainian groups in Kiev, Kharkov, Odessa, Nikolaev and Mariupol. Their deployment in the groups is handled by the "regional coordination headquarters" of the so-called "International Legion of Defence of Ukraine" in Belaya Tserkov city.

▫️As a result of the hostilities, the number of mercenaries has steadily declined and currently stands at 4,877.

▫️Russian Armed Forces have eliminated 1,035 foreign mercenaries in combat operations. Another 912 mercenaries refused to take part in the hostilities and escaped from the country.

❗️Let me remind you that foreign mercenaries do not have the status of "combatants" under International Humanitarian Law. They came to Ukraine to make money by killing Slavs. So the best that can happen to them is criminal liability and long terms of imprisonment.

📌 Part 1 (https://****/mod_russia_en/930)

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing
@mod_russia_en

@Vergennes

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## Hassan Al-Somal

NATO providing weapons to the Russian and Pro-Russian forces for free!!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515723297698516992

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## Deino

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514986138234023947



He is nothing but a paid propagandist for Russia as it seems


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515074056793600003

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Looks like operation to clear the Azov Neo Nazis and the foreign mercenaries is full underway. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515723692810063876

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515725434025127951


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## thetutle

kingQamaR said:


> The only way that Russia can become as it was is to resurrect the Soviet economy. The old economic adage "gu.ns or butter" still stands no matter what currency a country uses. Russia would have to divert its economy and stop producing cars, TVs, washing machines, as well as a wide range of foodstuffs and divert its capacity to the military. Even then, it wouldn't match the capacity of the US on its own - forgetting the rest of NATO. Russia is a second rate power with nuclear weapons. It needs to accept that reality.


True, and don't forget that the USSR at the start of the Cold War had more population than USA and a bigger economy. Now USA is almost 3 times the population of Russia and economy is well, incomparably bigger. 

Realistically, the California national guard would defeat Russia in Ukraine with a bit of help form the airforce. 

Russia is playing a game way out of its league.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515746767819743241

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515710054451851269

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515749305222635523

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515724185670234115


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## Get Ya Wig Split

RUSSIA IN SHAMBLES: USS Gerald R. Ford's (CVN 78) steams through the Atlantic Ocean (Receives 541,000 Pounds of Ordnance)​








RUSSIA IN SHAMBLES: USS Gerald R. Ford's (CVN 78) steams through the Atlantic Ocean (Receives 541,000 Pounds of Ordnance)


@F-22Raptor @Hamartia Antidote @KAL-EL



defence.pk

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## Vergennes

@F-22Raptor 

Russian military is so much corrupt their tanks have fake ERA

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515746767819743241
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515710054451851269


Simply rediculous
Coming to other country then bombing, killing, looting, then claim liberate the people.
Liberate the people from what?
Washing machine?


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## PakFactor

Vergennes said:


> @F-22Raptor
> 
> Russian military is so much corrupt their tanks have fake ERA
> 
> View attachment 835250



I’m not surprised at all when you have these oligarchs funneling money outside I wonder what the defense industry or those responsible for armament are doing. I think one officer committed suicide a few days back when they found out 1 out of 10 tanks were operable in his unit.


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## Viet

From the news

Ukraine asks G7 countries for 50 billion USD. In addition non interest loans will be issued to finance the budget deficit in the next 6 months.


*+++ 12:06 Ukraine bittet G7 um 50 Milliarden US-Dollar +++*
Die Ukraine hat nach eigenen Angaben die G7-Staaten um Finanzhilfen in Höhe von 50 Milliarden US-Dollar gebeten. Außerdem erwäge die Ukraine die Emission unverzinster Anleihen, sagt Präsidentenberater Oleh Ustenko im Fernsehen. Damit solle das kriegsbedingte Budgetdefizit in den kommenden sechs Monaten gedeckt werden.

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## Lehrasap

Meengla said:


> Yes.
> The target since the end of the Cold War has always been Russia's riches.
> People need to watch Colonel Macgregor who keeps repeating what you are saying: The war is largely America-led and is being fought to the last Ukrainian. But as long as it depletes Russia's resources, it is okay!
> Bolded part: What Zelensky is willing to offer now could have been done some months ago. Such tragedy!
> 
> NY Times front page--top news right now. This was inevitable but Ukraine was egged on to a futile fight! Idiots!
> 
> 
> View attachment 835171



One does not surrender one's rights without fighting. Otherwise, Russia will keep on making such illegal demands again and again and there is no guarantee that Russia will ever stop threatening its neighbours in order to achieve its demands. 

I am afraid you will still not understand my point of view. 

Let me ask, should Pakistan hand over Kashmir to India upon Indi's demand in order to make peace with India? 

This is exactly the recommendation that you are giving to Ukraine against Putin.


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## Viet

Ukraine Intel chief Kyrylo Budanow presses Germany for delivery of heavy artillery and tanks.
The weapons will help Ukrainian army to fill the great losses, to liberate the occupied territories including the Crime.
For Ukraine army will be very quick to learn, to master Leopard tanks.


*+++ 20:32 Geheimdienstchef fordert Artilleriesysteme: "Darin ist die deutsche Armee besonders stark" +++*
Der Chef des ukrainischen Militärgeheimdienstes, Kyrylo Budanow, wiederholt in einem Interview mit dem "Spiegel" die Forderung der ukrainischen Regierung nach Waffen aus Deutschland: "Wir brauchen Artilleriesysteme – darin ist die deutsche Armee besonders stark. Und leider brauchen wir Panzer, weil wir sehr große Verluste an gepanzerten Fahrzeugen hatten." Mit den Waffen wolle die ukrainische Armee die besetzten Gebiete befreien – dazu zähle er auch die 2014 von Russland annektierte Krim. Ein Problem mit der Ausbildung ukrainischer Soldaten etwa am Leopard-Panzer sieht Budanow nicht: "Das lernen wir schnell. Mit Verlaub, das ist keine höhere Mathematik."


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## Piotr

Russian air defense shot down plane with Western arms for Ukraine near Odessa - top brass​Military operation in Ukraine
16 Apr, 20:35

Оperational and tactical aviation destroyed 67 areas of concentration of Ukrainian military personnel and hardware in the past 24 hours

MOSCOW, April 16. /TASS/. Russian air defense units have brought down a military transport plane carrying Western arms outside Odessa, Russian Defense Ministry Spokesman Major-General Igor Konashenkov said on Saturday.
"Near Odessa Russian anti-aircraft defense forces have shot down a Ukrainian military transport plane, which was delivering a large shipment of arms supplied to Ukraine by Western counties," he said.
In addition, according to Konashenkov, operational and tactical aviation destroyed 67 areas of concentration of Ukrainian military personnel and hardware in the past 24 hours.
Russia’s missile troops hit 317 military facilities, including 274 strongholds and areas of concentration of the enemy’s manpower, 24 command posts and two field fuel facilities of Ukrainian troops. Two Ukrainian drones were shot down outside Lozovaya and Veselaya.

https://tass.com/defense/1438715

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## gambit

jamahir said:


> To defeat Iraq NATO had the benefit of years of sanctions on Iraq and no-fly-zones and still in the invasion of 2003 the Americans in particular, *with their superior firepower and technology, took weeks in getting to Baghdad.* I don't think Iraq had much of an air force, navy and air defence yet NATO didn't defeat Iraq in a matter of days which they must have thought would have.


Sorry, but this is not a good argument/criticism of US/NATO power.

What you 'think' about the Iraqi military came from the benefits of hindsight that the Iraqi military was defeated. I doubt that you were around when Desert Shield was created but if you were, would you have thought the same way, that the US/NATO would defeat the Iraqi military with so little casualties and weeks? No, you would not have thought so.

So what are we to make of Desert Storm? US/NATO airpower preceded the ground war. Desert Storm air campaign was about four weeks. When I got orders to deploy to Desert Storm, we already knew the air campaign would last weeks. How many depends on battle damages data, but we did planned on weeks. The battle damage data and assessments were what you left out in trying to defend the Russian campaign. Could the Iraq ground war started at the three weeks mark? Yes. Could it have been at the 8 or 12 weeks, or even six months point? Yes. But after four weeks, US/allies commanders decided that the Iraqi military was sufficiently degraded to begin the ground war. So just because we took four weeks to soften up the Iraqi ground forces does not mean the air campaign was incompetently executed.



https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/Portals/10/ASPJ/journals/Chronicles/sopko.pdf



Damage assessment was not a thought out process when planning began for Desert Storm. The intelligence community with its high-speed surveillance technology, thought they had a plan. *The community disregarded the traditional art of damage assessment (analysis of pilot reports, gunsight photos, follow up reconnaissance images/reports, and human resources intelligence (HUMINT) that trickled in from behind enemy lines) and tried to make it into a science relying primarily on national reconnaissance.* *It was not, however, prepared for the pace and rate of sortie generation that occurred.* When intelligence analysts did get timely products, they did not have vital information such as time over target or desired mean points of impact (DMPI) which are critical when assessing damage.​
What happened was that the BDA was too slow in comparison to how the air campaign was going. Further, there was a language problem.

Gen. Schwarzkopf, the Joint Force Commander for Desert Storm, once remarked during an evening intelligence update "well, if we knocked out *one span of a four-span bridge* so that anything that tried to cross fell into the Euphrates, you intelligence guys would tell me the bridge was only *twenty-five percent damaged*."​​In the Conduct of the Persian Gulf War: Final Report to Congress, 1992, the damage assessment process at the theater level was characterized as suffering from a lack of adequate systems, procedures, and manpower and *had difficulty trying to keep pace with the size speed and scope of the air campaign.*​
What does %25 damaged really mean in actual combat situations? For the front line, that bridge was effectively KIA-ed but the language in the report was misleading. In the final analysis, US/Allies airpower in Desert Storm remains *THE* standard for other air forces to follow, *IF* they can, that US/Allies airpower in Desert Storm were not incompetently executed but as yrs later proved, we were too competent.

In every war, every military looks for innovations from the combatants, and in this case, the world's militaries had Desert Storm level expectations for one combatant: Russia. And Russia failed, specifically the VKS failed -- miserably. There is no longer any valid comparison between Desert Storm and now. Russia war doctrines have airpower in a limited role, what we call 'airborne artillery'. Imagine an air force comprises mostly of A-10s. That is how Russia sees its airpower -- as a component of the ground forces. And even in this limited role, the VKS still failed as the Russian Army suffered one tank loss after another. The VKS is so bad in Ukraine that everyone falls back to Desert Storm, meaning Russia as a major military is no longer a valid example to follow but *NOT* to follow.

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## Lehrasap

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515686608942555137
> Western countries erase another line on the sand. Moral perception of right and wrong changes based on what is needed



What moral perception are you talking about? 

Was it moral for Putin and all those who supported him to spill the blood of Ukrainians? You remember morality only when the other side hits you back.


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## Piotr

> American Killed In Mariupol, Body Buried​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American Killed In Mariupol, Body Buried
> 
> 
> "A serviceman of the Russian Army with the call sign "Kerch" shows the passport of man from the United States. The coordinates of the place where this citizen is buried are marked on the passport with a pen. This was done so that his relatives coul…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bitchute.com





Lehrasap said:


> What moral perception are you talking about?
> 
> Was it moral for Putin and all those who supported him to spill the blood of Ukrainians? You remember morality only when the other side hits you back.



Russia is merely defending Donbass from USA Nazi Bandera. Article 51 of UN Charter gives Russia every right to do so. It is USA Nazi Bandera that is killing civilians.

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## Lehrasap

Piotr said:


> Russia is merely defending Donbass from USA Nazi Bandera. Article 51 of UN Charter gives Russia every right to do so. It is USA Nazi Bandera that is killing civilians.



You are telling a lie. 
Putin wants to capture these areas and include them in Russia. 
That is why he already annexed Crimea. 
That is why he didn't let Ukraine Govt. to decide for themselves for their country, but had already started arming the rebels. 
No UN allows to arm the rebels in other countries and to annex any part of it unilaterally.

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## Piotr

Lehrasap said:


> You are telling a lie.
> Putin wants to capture these areas and include them in Russia.
> That is why he already annexed Crimea.
> That is why he didn't let Ukraine Govt. to decide for themselves for their country, but had already started arming the rebels.
> No UN allows to arm the rebels in other countries and to annex any part of it unilaterally.



People in Crimea had a right to choose to be part of Russia. Donbas have a right to be part of Russia as well if it decide so.

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## Lehrasap

Piotr said:


> People in Crimea had a right to choose to be part of Russia. Donbas have a right to be part of Russia as well if it decide so.



The UN that you were referring to earlier, does not work in this way. 
If it is so, then Chechnya also had the right to break away from Russia. Why then Russia killed several thousands of people in Chechnya? 

In one word, your claims are based only upon Double Standards.

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## Piotr

Lehrasap said:


> The UN that you were referring to earlier, does not work in this way.
> If it is so, then Chechnya also had the right to break away from Russia. Why then Russia killed several thousands of people in Chechnya?
> 
> In one word, your claims are based only upon Double Standards.



What about Kosovo ?

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## Viet

Piotr said:


> People in Crimea had a right to choose to be part of Russia. Donbas have a right to be part of Russia as well if it decide so.


That’s jungle logics, invented by idiots. Nobody can accept it. not going to work.
You cannot use the fifth column to cut off pieces out of other countries.
That was Nazi logics by the way.
Germany using the same pretext to start the war. First in Austria, Czech, Poland. Then Russia. Lots of Germans live there.
You are a cheap clone.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515781518207168520

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## Piotr

Viet said:


> That’s jungle logics, invented by idiots. Nobody can accept it. not going to work.
> You cannot use the fifth column to cut off pieces out of other countries.



Kosovo split from Serbia, Crimea split from the former Ukraine.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515724185670234115



This equipment were captured today from Ukrainians in Donbass. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515772052229214210


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## Viet

Piotr said:


> Kosovo split from Serbia, Crimea split from the former Ukraine.


Kosovo was part of Yugoslavia not Serbia. You can’t fake history and facts as you please. Not ok.


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## Lehrasap

Piotr said:


> What about Kosovo ?



NATO didn't enter the conflict till it came to massacre of Kosovo Albanian population. It is not the same as Putin was supplying the rebels with arms and ammunition for the unrest.

It will be same if someone attacks Iran and make Kurdish areas separate from Iran. Or even better, if someone attacks Iran and make Seestan Baluchistan a part of Pakistani Baluchistan.


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## Wood

Lehrasap said:


> What moral perception are you talking about?
> 
> Was it moral for Putin and all those who supported him to spill the blood of Ukrainians? You remember morality only when the other side hits you back.


Just making a philosophical observation. I don't support Putin.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515784150053183491

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## Piotr

Viet said:


> Kosovo was part of Yugoslavia not Serbia.





Lehrasap said:


> NATO didn't enter the conflict till it came to massacre of Kosovo Albanian population. It is not the same as Putin was supplying the rebels with arms and ammunition for the unrest.
> 
> It will be same if someone attacks Iran and make Kurdish areas separate from Iran.




If Kosovo had the right to secede from Yugoslavia then Crimea had the right to secede from the former Ukraine.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Spoiler





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515748379715903490




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515786042485452801

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515756561469251585


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515749068127014919

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515782703630671873

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## Lehrasap

Piotr said:


> If Kosovo had the right to secede from Yugoslavia then Crimea had the right to secede from the former Ukraine.



You have not answered your Double Standards
If it is so, when then Chechnya didn't get the liberation from Russia and why then Putin attacked them and killed thousands of Chechnyan people?

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## Oldman1

thetutle said:


> These was nothing that could stop Putin from invading because he wanted to expand Russia's borders. That pretty clear to everyone.


Exactly, it wasn't just about joining NATO which Ukraine has been trying to many years. You look at what excuses Putin has been trying to do recently to justify invading Ukraine.
1. Being NATO at Russia's borders even though there are other NATO countries that borders Russia. 
2. Protecting DNR/LNR backed by Russia
3. Recognize them as countries and claim they were under attack by Ukraine and invade few days later.
4. Claim Ukraine has biological weapons.
5. Claim Ukraine has nuclear weapons. 
6. Claim to protecting Russian speaking people from Kharkiv to Odessa and other cities, not sure how far Putin was going, probably all the way to western Ukraine (ironically many Ukrainian soldiers can speak Russian so they can easily interrogate the Russian prisoners).
7. Ukrainian government are NAZIs as well as the military.
8. Ukraine has a military, enough to justify invasion since they want it demilitarize. 

So many excuses, even if Ukraine was neutral, that's still enough to justify getting invaded since that's not the same as being Pro-Russian.

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## Paul2

On Izyum pocket.

Twitters are saying Ukrainian side has already crossed the Oskil from the East, and Ukrainian troops are pouring into hills north of Izyum, cutting off Russian force in Izyum

Edit:
They reached Svatovoye near the dusk. A single Russian platoon in town fled/surrendered.

It's a very risky move if Russian airforce will start venturing past their defensive lines.

It's well past Ukrainian SAM picket.

My guess they want to reach Kupyansk, and hold there.

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## The SC

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515746767819743241
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515710054451851269


That steel plant is 15 km long according to some sources..


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515818122036621321

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515835799022960640
Ukrainian President Zelensky orders the promotion of five military ranks for Commander Oleksiy Zyashaba, to Vice Admiral of the Ukrainian Navy, for his success in leading the operation to destroy the Russian cruiser Moskva in the Black Sea.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515830076662857734

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515609442305429512
Brave hearts!

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## patero

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515818122036621321


It looks like a Neptune missile has hit directly where the last row of Sandbox/Vulcan missiles are, which must have caused at least one but probably more of them to detonate. The reoports that the Moskva immediately listed appear to be accurate.

The design of the Slava class has an obvious flaw which is very much apparent after the sinking of the Moskva. Those Sandbox/Vulcan missles must extend for at least half the length of the ship, giving any successful incoming missile a 50-50 chance of hitting one ofthem.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515800193056264205

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515823527705915394

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

The bulk of Ukraine's mineral wealth is in Luhansk, which is controlled by Russia and is considered a separatist, and in general the Donbass .. and the rest is in Lviv, where there are Polish ambitions..

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515816211866599433


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515790941361262592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515836703910551555


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515789340613480450

The Russian forces at Izyum are at serious risk of being cut off.

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## FuturePAF

A lot of damage to the Moskva from probably just one Neptune missile; probably hit right into the ammo magazine as suspected. Perhaps the second one hit there as well but that would be two really lucky shots. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515858203606716424


----------



## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515789340613480450
> 
> The Russian forces at Izyum are at serious risk of being cut off.




The Russians are making the same mistakes they did in the Kyiv region. Overextended and their rear gets obliterated.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Paul2 said:


> On Izyum pocket.
> 
> Twitters are saying Ukrainian side has already crossed the Oskil from the East, and Ukrainian troops are pouring into hills north of Izyum, cutting off Russian force in Izyum
> 
> Edit:
> They reached Svatovoye near the dusk. A single Russian platoon in town fled/surrendered.
> 
> It's a very risky move if Russian airforce will start venturing past their defensive lines.
> 
> It's well past Ukrainian SAM picket.
> 
> My guess they want to reach Kupyansk, and hold there.




Russians are making progress deep into the Izyum front. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515784150053183491


----------



## The SC

Scheme of underground shelters of Azovstal.
To understand the problem..They were built to withstand a nuclear strike.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515695477215404032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515763679454810117

Near Kharkiv, a group of the most professional Ukrainian special forces of the MTR of 50 officers and servicemen was almost completely destroyed. 8 in captivity. The usual reconnaissance company of Russian units with a young commander entered into battle with them.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515797286982504464


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515868033029390341


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515333675457650697

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515330451522699264


----------



## Philip the Arab

Wouldn’t pumping gas through Azovstal work to bring them out?


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Mariupol now


----------



## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> Sorry, but this is not a good argument/criticism of US/NATO power.
> 
> What you 'think' about the Iraqi military came from the benefits of hindsight that the Iraqi military was defeated. I doubt that you were around when Desert Shield was created but if you were, would you have thought the same way, that the US/NATO would defeat the Iraqi military with so little casualties and weeks? No, you would not have thought so.
> 
> So what are we to make of Desert Storm? US/NATO airpower preceded the ground war. Desert Storm air campaign was about four weeks. When I got orders to deploy to Desert Storm, we already knew the air campaign would last weeks. How many depends on battle damages data, but we did planned on weeks. The battle damage data and assessments were what you left out in trying to defend the Russian campaign. Could the Iraq ground war started at the three weeks mark? Yes. Could it have been at the 8 or 12 weeks, or even six months point? Yes. But after four weeks, US/allies commanders decided that the Iraqi military was sufficiently degraded to begin the ground war. So just because we took four weeks to soften up the Iraqi ground forces does not mean the air campaign was incompetently executed.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/Portals/10/ASPJ/journals/Chronicles/sopko.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> Damage assessment was not a thought out process when planning began for Desert Storm. The intelligence community with its high-speed surveillance technology, thought they had a plan. *The community disregarded the traditional art of damage assessment (analysis of pilot reports, gunsight photos, follow up reconnaissance images/reports, and human resources intelligence (HUMINT) that trickled in from behind enemy lines) and tried to make it into a science relying primarily on national reconnaissance.* *It was not, however, prepared for the pace and rate of sortie generation that occurred.* When intelligence analysts did get timely products, they did not have vital information such as time over target or desired mean points of impact (DMPI) which are critical when assessing damage.​
> What happened was that the BDA was too slow in comparison to how the air campaign was going. Further, there was a language problem.
> 
> Gen. Schwarzkopf, the Joint Force Commander for Desert Storm, once remarked during an evening intelligence update "well, if we knocked out *one span of a four-span bridge* so that anything that tried to cross fell into the Euphrates, you intelligence guys would tell me the bridge was only *twenty-five percent damaged*."​​In the Conduct of the Persian Gulf War: Final Report to Congress, 1992, the damage assessment process at the theater level was characterized as suffering from a lack of adequate systems, procedures, and manpower and *had difficulty trying to keep pace with the size speed and scope of the air campaign.*​
> What does %25 damaged really mean in actual combat situations? For the front line, that bridge was effectively KIA-ed but the language in the report was misleading. In the final analysis, US/Allies airpower in Desert Storm remains *THE* standard for other air forces to follow, *IF* they can, that US/Allies airpower in Desert Storm were not incompetently executed but as yrs later proved, we were too competent.
> 
> In every war, every military looks for innovations from the combatants, and in this case, the world's militaries had Desert Storm level expectations for one combatant: Russia. And Russia failed, specifically the VKS failed -- miserably. There is no longer any valid comparison between Desert Storm and now. Russia war doctrines have airpower in a limited role, what we call 'airborne artillery'. Imagine an air force comprises mostly of A-10s. That is how Russia sees its airpower -- as a component of the ground forces. And even in this limited role, the VKS still failed as the Russian Army suffered one tank loss after another. The VKS is so bad in Ukraine that everyone falls back to Desert Storm, meaning Russia as a major military is no longer a valid example to follow but *NOT* to follow.


Comparing Iraq with Ukraine is not a fair comparison . Iraqi force were surrendering left and right while Ukrainian actually put up resistance . On other hand Iraq for 10 years was under sanction while ukraine received help from left and right and for free . USA till today gave them 1/3rd of it's atgm and manpads stock pile .
It take to and USA approximately 3 to 5 year depend on who you believe to restock what they gave to Ukraine .



Lehrasap said:


> You are telling a lie.
> Putin wants to capture these areas and include them in Russia.
> That is why he already annexed Crimea.
> That is why he didn't let Ukraine Govt. to decide for themselves for their country, but had already started arming the rebels.
> No UN allows to arm the rebels in other countries and to annex any part of it unilaterally.


Well technically you are correct but do you remember syria or Kosovo ?why this was not applied to those two place

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## Hack-Hook

Piotr said:


> Kosovo split from Serbia, Crimea split from the former Ukraine.





Lehrasap said:


> NATO didn't enter the conflict till it came to massacre of Kosovo Albanian population. It is not the same as Putin was supplying the rebels with arms and ammunition for the unrest.
> 
> It will be same if someone attacks Iran and make Kurdish areas separate from Iran. Or even better, if someone attacks Iran and make Seestan Baluchistan a part of Pakistani Baluchistan.


In last 8 years according to some narrative 14000 civilian died in Donbas and lohansk 

But let not talk about that what about Libya.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515863946745495553


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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515863946745495553




Ukrainian soldiers ambushed by DPR soldiers, location is unknown.



Spoiler: Graphic

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Hack-Hook said:


> Comparing Iraq with Ukraine is not a fair comparison . Iraqi force were surrendering left and right while Ukrainian actually put up resistance . On other hand Iraq for 10 years was under sanction while ukraine received help from left and right and for free . USA till today gave them 1/3rd of it's atgm and manpads stock pile .
> It take to and USA approximately 3 to 5 year depend on who you believe to restock what they gave to Ukraine .
> 
> 
> Well technically you are correct but do you remember syria or Kosovo ?why this was not applied to those two place




Actually, Iraqis put up a much better fight than the Ukrainians. I have yet to see Ukrainians putting up the kind of fight Iraqis put up in Diwaniah, Falujah, Ramadi, Samara, Haditha, Karbala, Baghdad, and Suleumaniah (Mosul). The Ukrainians have better weapons, the entire NATO and the West are backing them, and their terrain is much better for the kind of the war that they're waging than the flat lands in Iraq. Besides, Iraqis fight lasted for 2 decades. If Iraq had the kind of support that the Ukrainians have now, the occupation of Iraq wouldn't have happened.

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## Oldman1

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Actually, Iraqis put up a much better fight than the Ukrainians. I have yet to see Ukrainians putting up the kind of fight Iraqis put up in Diwaniah, Falujah, Ramadi, Samara, Haditha, Karbala, Baghdad, and Suleumaniah (Mosul). The Ukrainians have better weapons, the entire NATO and the West are backing them, and their terrain is much better for the kind of the war that they're waging than the flat lands in Iraq. Besides, Iraqis fight lasted for 2 decades. If Iraq had the kind of support that the Ukrainians have now, the occupation of Iraq wouldn't have happened.


Thats because the Russians failed to get into Kharkiv, Kiev, Sumy, Chernihiv, etc. Most of those cities are close to the Russian border. Only cities they went into was Mariupol and Kherson which by the way was surrendered by the mayor easily but you saw what happened in Mariupol and how tough it was. I guarantee you if they tried to get into those cities, there would be no army left of Russia.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515882888352477185

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515884191673724928


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## sammuel

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Mariupol now



City completely destroyed. How can you justify that ?

~


----------



## Oldman1

The SC said:


> The bulk of Ukraine's mineral wealth is in Luhansk, which is controlled by Russia and is considered a separatist, and in general the Donbass .. and the rest is in Lviv, where there are Polish ambitions..
> 
> View attachment 835342


What Polish ambitions?


----------



## Oldman1

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians are making the same mistakes they did in the Kyiv region. Overextended and their rear gets obliterated.


If they can clear the area around Kharkiv and push to the Russian border, where the main supply depots at Belgorod which would be in artillery range to hit the supplies as well as the supply columns on the road coming down to Izium.


----------



## PakFactor

sammuel said:


> City completely destroyed. How can you justify that ?
> 
> ~



Just like the Israeli Army justifies Gaza — same shit just different skin tone.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Paul2 said:


> On Izyum pocket.
> 
> Twitters are saying Ukrainian side has already crossed the Oskil from the East, and Ukrainian troops are pouring into hills north of Izyum, cutting off Russian force in Izyum
> 
> Edit:
> They reached Svatovoye near the dusk. A single Russian platoon in town fled/surrendered.
> 
> It's a very risky move if Russian airforce will start venturing past their defensive lines.
> 
> It's well past Ukrainian SAM picket.
> 
> My guess they want to reach Kupyansk, and hold there.


what happened to the Kherson counterattack you predicted? where did it go?

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## CAPRICORN-88

sammuel said:


> City completely destroyed. How can you justify that ?
> 
> ~


How do you judge a war?
By the number of beautiful buildings left standing?

 

Lesson in life.

Don't opt for war if an option for peace is available.

Why didn't Zalensky comply with the signed Minsk II agreement?

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## gambit

Hack-Hook said:


> Comparing Iraq with Ukraine is not a fair comparison . *Iraqi force were surrendering left and right* while Ukrainian actually put up resistance .


Testimonies from Iraqi POWs had the Iraqi Army got worn down by Allies airpower. People can try to make excuses for the Iraqi Army all they want, but the bottom line is that the air campaign gave Allies ground forces the break they needed, namely, the constant air bombardment broke the Iraqi Army will to fight. As this Russia-Ukraine war continues, comparisons between Desert Storm and this war moves towards the invalid end. Nevertheless, it is already clear that the Russian Air Force failed its primary mission.

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## Clutch

sammuel said:


> City completely destroyed. How can you justify that ?
> 
> ~



Ask an Iraqi, Syrian, Libyan, Palestinian, Yemeni... They might answer that.

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## Deino

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515835799022960640
> Ukrainian President Zelensky orders the promotion of five military ranks for Commander Oleksiy Zyashaba, to Vice Admiral of the Ukrainian Navy, for his success in leading the operation to destroy the Russian cruiser Moskva in the Black Sea.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515830076662857734




Oh what an irony !


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515643780019466241

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## Viet

Time running out. Russia army can’t begin the great offensive at Donbas. However Mariupol is not falling, military supply lines being constantly attacked by Ukraine army.











Russland läuft die Zeit im Donbass davon – weil die Ukraine Truppenverlegung erfolgreich verlangsamt


Russland will die Großoffensive im Donbass wohl starten, sobald Mariupol vollständig eingenommen ist. Das Problem: Der Nachschub lässt weiter auf sich warten.




app.handelsblatt.com

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## Clutch

Viet said:


> Time running out. Russia army can’t begin the great offensive at Donbas. However Mariupol is not falling, military supply lines being constantly attacked by Ukraine army.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russland läuft die Zeit im Donbass davon – weil die Ukraine Truppenverlegung erfolgreich verlangsamt
> 
> 
> Russland will die Großoffensive im Donbass wohl starten, sobald Mariupol vollständig eingenommen ist. Das Problem: Der Nachschub lässt weiter auf sich warten.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> app.handelsblatt.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 835401



Well .... It seems like Russia has just exposed how incompetent their army is and how useless it's military doctrine is for for the modern battlefield.

They only face-saving Russia has left is to start carpet bombs and using large Massive Ordnance Air Blast (MOA) aka "Mother of All Bombs".

Perhaps is Russia is capable of flattening cities like America did to Fallujah then they may have a way out now.

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## sammuel

Clutch said:


> Ask an Iraqi, Syrian, Libyan, Palestinian, Yemeni... They might answer that.



And this justify the destruction of Mariupol ? How exactly ?




~

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## Clutch

sammuel said:


> And this justify the destruction of Mariupol ? How exactly ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~



Nope... But Mariupol need to get to the back of the line and wait their turn for sympathies. Those other countries/cities are ahead of the line.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515916080811757569

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
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## CAPRICORN-88

The end is near for the AZOV batallion trapped in Azovstal Steelwork as the deadline to surrender at 11.00 am approaches.

Tupolev bombers with bunker busting bombs along with heavy artilleries and missiles are ready. 

Meanwhile Russia reported that a Ukrainian transport plane carry Western arms to Odessa from Poland has just been shot down. 

Zaporizhzhia where Motor Sich is located is reported now under Russian control.

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## mmr

sammuel said:


> City completely destroyed. How can you justify that ?
> 
> ~


well at least ukraine will rebuild with russian seize assets. other countries not so lucky.

that dont justify the loss of life but silver lining

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## jamahir

F-22Raptor said:


> 5 B-2 bombers alone could launch 400 small diameter guided bombs in one pass at 70-100km range and hit moving targets.



How will those bombs be guided ?



gambit said:


> Sorry, but this is not a good argument/criticism of US/NATO power.
> 
> What you 'think' about the Iraqi military came from the benefits of hindsight that the Iraqi military was defeated. I doubt that you were around when Desert Shield was created but if you were, would you have thought the same way, that the US/NATO would defeat the Iraqi military with so little casualties and weeks? No, you would not have thought so.
> 
> So what are we to make of Desert Storm? US/NATO airpower preceded the ground war. Desert Storm air campaign was about four weeks. When I got orders to deploy to Desert Storm, we already knew the air campaign would last weeks. How many depends on battle damages data, but we did planned on weeks. The battle damage data and assessments were what you left out in trying to defend the Russian campaign. Could the Iraq ground war started at the three weeks mark? Yes. Could it have been at the 8 or 12 weeks, or even six months point? Yes. But after four weeks, US/allies commanders decided that the Iraqi military was sufficiently degraded to begin the ground war. So just because we took four weeks to soften up the Iraqi ground forces does not mean the air campaign was incompetently executed.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/Portals/10/ASPJ/journals/Chronicles/sopko.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> Damage assessment was not a thought out process when planning began for Desert Storm. The intelligence community with its high-speed surveillance technology, thought they had a plan. *The community disregarded the traditional art of damage assessment (analysis of pilot reports, gunsight photos, follow up reconnaissance images/reports, and human resources intelligence (HUMINT) that trickled in from behind enemy lines) and tried to make it into a science relying primarily on national reconnaissance.* *It was not, however, prepared for the pace and rate of sortie generation that occurred.* When intelligence analysts did get timely products, they did not have vital information such as time over target or desired mean points of impact (DMPI) which are critical when assessing damage.​
> What happened was that the BDA was too slow in comparison to how the air campaign was going. Further, there was a language problem.
> 
> Gen. Schwarzkopf, the Joint Force Commander for Desert Storm, once remarked during an evening intelligence update "well, if we knocked out *one span of a four-span bridge* so that anything that tried to cross fell into the Euphrates, you intelligence guys would tell me the bridge was only *twenty-five percent damaged*."​​In the Conduct of the Persian Gulf War: Final Report to Congress, 1992, the damage assessment process at the theater level was characterized as suffering from a lack of adequate systems, procedures, and manpower and *had difficulty trying to keep pace with the size speed and scope of the air campaign.*​
> What does %25 damaged really mean in actual combat situations? For the front line, that bridge was effectively KIA-ed but the language in the report was misleading. In the final analysis, US/Allies airpower in Desert Storm remains *THE* standard for other air forces to follow, *IF* they can, that US/Allies airpower in Desert Storm were not incompetently executed but as yrs later proved, we were too competent.
> 
> In every war, every military looks for innovations from the combatants, and in this case, the world's militaries had Desert Storm level expectations for one combatant: Russia. And Russia failed, specifically the VKS failed -- miserably. There is no longer any valid comparison between Desert Storm and now. Russia war doctrines have airpower in a limited role, what we call 'airborne artillery'. Imagine an air force comprises mostly of A-10s. That is how Russia sees its airpower -- as a component of the ground forces. And even in this limited role, the VKS still failed as the Russian Army suffered one tank loss after another. The VKS is so bad in Ukraine that everyone falls back to Desert Storm, meaning Russia as a major military is no longer a valid example to follow but *NOT* to follow.



1. Well, I was talking about the 2003 invasion but you are saying that even in 1991 the Iraqi military was formidable despite just having been through eight years of war with Iran ( that war being unfortunate ) ?

2. How come Kiev's international airport is still operational and the Russians have not bombed it ? How are NATO leaders able to freely enter Kiev ? I have read in these pages that the Russians may now start to target administrative facilities in Kiev that may include the international airport too and the roads leading into Kiev.



Piotr said:


> Russia is merely defending Donbass from USA Nazi Bandera. Article 51 of UN Charter gives Russia every right to do so. It is USA Nazi Bandera that is killing civilians.



I don't understand how @Deino gave you a negative rating for this. It is undeniable that Zelensky's military is full of Bandera and Azov Nazis who didn't hesitate to commit crimes against Ukranian citizens and against the now-independent two republics.

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## Menthol

Clutch said:


> Ask an Iraqi, Syrian, Libyan, Palestinian, Yemeni... They might answer that.



I don't think the West is care much about it.

And they don't care about Ukraine as well.

Because they will do it again.

Everything is just lip service.

You'll see.

After the Ukraine-Russia war is over, why do you think the West is not going to start another war?

If it's not a war, then it's an economic sanction or riots that make other people live as suffering as Ukrainians.

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## Deino

jamahir said:


> I don't understand how @Deino gave you a negative rating for this. It is undeniable that Zelensky's military is full of Bandera and Azov Nazis who didn't hesitate to commit crimes against Ukranian citizens and against the now-independent two republics.




No-one denies this, but to set the Nazis in Ukraine equal to all Ukrainian peoples and equal them as the USA, so de fact the USA = Nazis is a lie since it is plain wrong. As such this is spreading of stupid propaganda.

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## Wergeland

There are mods on PDF who hand out negative rating to members who are on russian side or present the russian angle. But not once have i seen mods give negative ratings to members who represent western angle.

Being staunchly pro NATO myself, still i think this is a unfortunate development for PDF.

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## jamahir

Deino said:


> No-one denies this, but to set the Nazis in Ukraine equal to all Ukrainian peoples and equal them as the USA, so de fact the USA = Nazis is a lie since it is plain wrong. As such this is spreading of stupid propaganda.



@Piotr, I respect your positions but I agree with Deino because not all Ukrainians are Nazis - many of the civilians suffer because of Zelensky's people and they also don't refuse assistance from the Russian military and remember Babushka Z ?  To avoid textual confusions I always write "Western governments" instead of "The West" because it is those governments to be criticized. There will be people in the West - many or few - who don't accept the systems imposed upon them by their governments. Take the Occupy Wall Street movement in USA in 2011 which went to many other countries in the Western bloc. These protestors rejected their governance systems and wanted progressive political and socio-economic systems. I think you wanted to write about Zelensky's people and USA / NATO governments but angrily wrote "USA Bandera Nazi" in an uncompleted form, yes ?


----------



## Piotr

Hack-Hook said:


> In last 8 years according to some narrative 14000 civilian died in Donbas and lohansk
> 
> But let not talk about that what about Libya.



Now US trolls suddenly "forgot" about Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and plethora of other countries USA attacked. USA killed tens of millions of civilians. But guys from the Ku Klux Klan have nothing against killing people in praces like Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya.

Russia only demanded that US run regime in Kiev adhere to Minsk Agreement, regime in Kiev itself signed. But US run regime in Kiev refused. They contiued to shell Donbass and kill civilians there and USA and the West supported this shelling. For years Russia recognized Donbass as part of the Ukraine, but since US run regime in Kiev contunued to kill civilians there, Russia has no other choice than to help Donbass.



jamahir said:


> @Piotr, I respect your positions but I agree with Deino because not all Ukrainians are Nazis - many of the civilians suffer because of Zelensky's people and they also don't refuse assistance from the Russian military and remember Babushka Z ?  To avoid textual confusions I always write "Western governments" instead of "The West" because it is those governments to be criticized. There will be people in the West - many or few - who don't accept the systems imposed upon them by their governments. Take the Occupy Wall Street movement in USA in 2011 which went to many other countries in the Western bloc. These protestors rejected their governance systems and wanted progressive political and socio-economic systems. I think you wanted to write about Zelensky's people and USA / NATO governments but angrily wrote "USA Bandera Nazi" in an uncompleted form, yes ?



I have never said that all Ukrainians are Nazis. Ukrainians are in fact victim of Nazi Bandera ideology USA founded and supported.

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## sammuel

Clutch said:


> Nope... But Mariupol need to get to the back of the line and wait their turn for sympathies. Those other countries/cities are ahead of the line.



Did not know you had to ration sympathy now . Stupid argument.


~


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## vizier

Recently Zelensky said the negotiations would be off if Mariopol is taken out completely. I dont know what is the stance of Russia about this but if the operation is postphoned several days 400-800 militia+soldiers trapped there wont be a security issue and there is the opportunity of negotiation table again. Also transfer of heavy weapons can be asked by Russia to be delayed entering from Polish border while Russia regroup inside its border during negotiations. That can be an opportunity to consider.


----------



## Viet

Clutch said:


> Well .... It seems like Russia has just exposed how incompetent their army is and how useless it's military doctrine is for for the modern battlefield.
> 
> They only face-saving Russia has left is to start carpet bombs and using large Massive Ordnance Air Blast (MOA) aka "Mother of All Bombs".
> 
> Perhaps is Russia is capable of flattening cities like America did to Fallujah then they may have a way out now.


Yes that’s surprising even shocking. Russia military as second best in the world? Probably a mix of corruption, incompetence, propaganda, delusion. Putin is a ex spy he wastes no time in economics he spends time, money and resources in military complex, security apparatus. And this disaster. Unbelievable.
There is no hope to win the war. The Ukrainian resistance is hard. NATO is behind Zelinskki. For Putin to steal little territory of Ukraine he will increase terror bombings. There is no doubt.


----------



## Paul2

FairAndUnbiased said:


> what happened to the Kherson counterattack you predicted? where did it go?



Not yet. The defensive picket around it is destroyed, but no attack on Kherson with regular troops despite Ukrainians holding towns around it.

There been 1 skirmish on the southwest of the city.

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## Piotr

jamahir said:


> @Piotr, I respect your positions but I agree with Deino because not all Ukrainians are Nazis - many of the civilians suffer because of Zelensky's people and they also don't refuse assistance from the Russian military and remember Babushka Z ?  To avoid textual confusions I always write "Western governments" instead of "The West" because it is those governments to be criticized. There will be people in the West - many or few - who don't accept the systems imposed upon them by their governments. Take the Occupy Wall Street movement in USA in 2011 which went to many other countries in the Western bloc. These protestors rejected their governance systems and wanted progressive political and socio-economic systems. I think you wanted to write about Zelensky's people and USA / NATO governments but angrily wrote "USA Bandera Nazi" in an uncompleted form, yes ?



Bandera was colaborator of Nazi Germany. He and Germans killed hundreds of thousands of Polish civilians in Volhynia region. After the war Bandera and his followers started to work for the USA. Bandera follower Stecko for example setttled after the war in the USA.
Actually many war criminals from Germany went after the war to the USA, Wernher "von" Braun is one of examples.

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## jamahir

Piotr said:


> I have never said that all Ukrainians are Nazis. Ukrainians are in fact victim of Nazi Bandera ideology USA founded and supported.



Understood brother.  

@Deino

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## Wergeland

Deino said:


> No-one denies this, but to set the Nazis in Ukraine equal to all Ukrainian peoples and equal them as the USA, so de fact the USA = Nazis is a lie since it is plain wrong. As such this is spreading of stupid propaganda.



Will you as a German, hand out negative ratings to members who spread lies about Russia? That would be the only fair thing to do as a mod.



Piotr said:


> Bandera was colaborator of Nazi Germany. He and Germans killed hundreds of thousands of Polish civilians in Volhynia region. After the war Bandera and his followers started to work for the USA. Bandera follower Stecko for example setttled after the war in the USA.
> Actually many war criminals from Germany went after the war to the USA, Wernher "von" Braun is one of examples.



These are facts.

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## gambit

jamahir said:


> How will those bombs be guided ?


GPS



jamahir said:


> 1. Well, I was talking about the 2003 invasion but you are saying that even in 1991 the Iraqi military was formidable despite just having been through eight years of war with Iran ( that war being unfortunate ) ?
> 
> 2. How come Kiev's international airport is still operational and the Russians have not bombed it ? How are NATO leaders able to freely enter Kiev ? I have read in these pages that the Russians may now start to target administrative facilities in Kiev that may include the international airport too and the roads leading into Kiev.


You cannot diminish the incompetency of the Russian military in Ukraine by trying to diminish the efforts of US in Iraq.

The expectation for Russia came from the *PERCEPTION* that the Russian military is the peer of the US military. It does not mean the execution would be the same. It mean that Russia was expected to accomplish military objectives in similar speed as US in Iraq. But no one expected Russia to lose hundreds of tanks and hundreds, if not thousands, of other assorted armored vehicles, or that the VKS failed to gain air supremacy in the first week, or that Russia lost an important ship, or that Russian troops resorted to looting.


----------



## Wergeland

Piotr said:


> Germany itself and USA are biggest culprits behind conflict in the former Ukraine. Germany is a guarantor of Minsk Agreement and Germany did nothing to made Kiev implement Minsk Agreement. Germany supported shelling Donbass and killing civilians there. German chancellor Scholz was laughthing at killed civilians in Donbass:
> 
> German chancellor’s claims about genocide in Donbass unacceptable — Foreign Ministry​On Saturday, *Scholz told the Munich Security Conference that the term genocide was unapplicable to the situation in Donbass and described such statements as "laughable"*
> 
> MOSCOW, February 19. /TASS/. German Chancellor Olaf Scholz’s claims to the effect statements about genocide in Donbass are laughable are totally unacceptable, the Russian Foreign Ministry told TASS on Saturday.
> "German leaders are not in a position to ridicule genocide issues. This is unacceptable, in particular in the light of Germany’s historical experience in such matters as mass extermination of people and the spread of misanthropic ideologies," the Russian Foreign Ministry said in the wake of Olaf’s statement.
> On Saturday, Scholz told the Munich Security Conference that the term genocide was unapplicable to the situation in Donbass and described such statements as *"laughable."*
> Earlier, speaking at a joint news conference with Scholz Russian President Vladimir Putin used the term genocide in relation to the situation in this region.
> 
> On Friday, the leaders of the Lugansk and Donetsk people’s republics have declared a campaign of evacuation of civilians to Russia, including the Rostov Region, in view of the growing risk of hostilities. Later a number of other regions declared their readiness to host evacuees from Donbass.
> https://tass.com/world/1406425
> 
> As you can see German Chancellor Olaf Scholz is no much different than Adolf Hitler and Germany now is no much different than in times of Hitler.
> Fortunately Germany is military midget and economically Germany is on the path to irrelevance.



Germany should know its place.
It tried to take over Europe twice. Norway was occupied by Nazi Germany from 1939 to 1945. We were not even hostile against Germany, but our King was a relative of Queen Elizabeth and had to flee to security in London, in order to keep Norwegian morale up.

We voted NO to EU twice in referendums, but still Germany managed to bribe our leaders to sign cooperation agreement. Past 20 years we have been bombarded with nonsense EU laws, made by technocrats in Brussel, but sneaked into our laws without asking our permission, by our own compromised lawmakers.

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## Piotr

Wergeland said:


> Germany should know its place.
> It tried to take over Europe twice. Norway was occupied by Nazi Germany from 1939 to 1945. We were not even hostile against Germany, but our King was a relative of Queen Elizabeth and had to flee to security in London, in order to keep Norwegian morale up.
> 
> We voted NO to EU twice in referendums, but still Germany managed to bribe our leaders to sign cooperation agreement. Past 20 years we have been bombarded with nonsense EU laws, made by technocrats in Brussel, but sneaked into our laws without asking our permission, by our own compromised lawmakers.



USA will once again show Germany its place. Germany is going to be biggest loser of conflict in the former Ukraine and USA is going to biggest winner.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Paul2 said:


> Not yet. The defensive picket around it is destroyed, but no attack on Kherson with regular troops despite Ukrainians holding towns around it.
> 
> There been 1 skirmish on the southwest of the city.


you predicted it over a month ago.


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## Viet

The war is going well according to plan.

- Vladimir Putin

obviously not.

The number of Nazi stories increase by the number of Russian war deaths.

They will blame everything on the Asov.

The 1,000 men Asov battalion defeats the entire Russia 1,000,000 army.

My big respect to the Asov.


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## Deino

Piotr said:


> Germany itself and USA are biggest culprits behind conflict in the former Ukraine. Germany is a guarantor of Minsk Agreement and Germany did nothing to made Kiev implement Minsk Agreement. Germany supported shelling Donbass and killing civilians there. German chancellor Scholz was laughthing at killed civilians in Donbass:
> 
> German chancellor’s claims about genocide in Donbass unacceptable — Foreign Ministry​On Saturday, *Scholz told the Munich Security Conference that the term genocide was unapplicable to the situation in Donbass and described such statements as "laughable"*
> 
> MOSCOW, February 19. /TASS/. German Chancellor Olaf Scholz’s claims to the effect statements about genocide in Donbass are laughable are totally unacceptable, the Russian Foreign Ministry told TASS on Saturday.
> "German leaders are not in a position to ridicule genocide issues. This is unacceptable, in particular in the light of Germany’s historical experience in such matters as mass extermination of people and the spread of misanthropic ideologies," the Russian Foreign Ministry said in the wake of Olaf’s statement.
> On Saturday, Scholz told the Munich Security Conference that the term genocide was unapplicable to the situation in Donbass and described such statements as *"laughable."*
> Earlier, speaking at a joint news conference with Scholz Russian President Vladimir Putin used the term genocide in relation to the situation in this region.
> 
> On Friday, the leaders of the Lugansk and Donetsk people’s republics have declared a campaign of evacuation of civilians to Russia, including the Rostov Region, in view of the growing risk of hostilities. Later a number of other regions declared their readiness to host evacuees from Donbass.
> https://tass.com/world/1406425
> 
> As you can see German Chancellor Olaf Scholz is no much different than Adolf Hitler and Germany now is no much different than in times of Hitler.
> Fortunately Germany is military midget and economically Germany is on the path to irrelevance.




Come on … equalling the current Germany with Hitler and Nazi-Germany !??
This nonsense, BS and these lies here MUST stop! Reported to a higher mod: @The Eagle


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## Piotr

Deino said:


> Come on … equalling Nazi-Germany with Hitler!??
> This nonsense, BS and these lies here MUST stop! Reported to a higher mod: @The Eagle



Yes I equal Nazi Germany with Hitler. Are you going to give me negative rating for saying the truth ? I am not afraid.


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## jamahir

gambit said:


> GPS



Hence my previous point about the Russians electronically and laser attacking GPS and Galileo satellites. Russia has the means.



gambit said:


> You cannot diminish the incompetency of the Russian military in Ukraine by trying to diminish the efforts of US in Iraq.
> 
> The expectation for Russia came from the *PERCEPTION* that the Russian military is the peer of the US military. It does not mean the execution would be the same. It mean that Russia was expected to accomplish military objectives in similar speed as US in Iraq. But no one expected Russia to lose hundreds of tanks and hundreds, if not thousands, of other assorted armored vehicles, or that the VKS failed to gain air supremacy in the first week, or that Russia lost an important ship



Maybe you are right. Maybe the Russians were overconfident that their massing of forces along Ukraine's borders before the operation will not allow the Ukraine military to coordinate. It should have perhaps been a surprise attack. The Americans for Iraq had the element of surprise, deploying as they were from a long distance. But yes, I agree with you that Russia should have taken lesson from USA's experience in Iraq and did a Shock and Awe in Kiev and other centers. But did the Russians want to do a Shock and Awe ? Also, Ukraine from what I see is a big country with forest land between the cities so Russia convoys can be hit by small teams of Ukrainian military hiding in those forests or launching rockets from those forests. This was unlike Iraq's landscape from what I think. And I agree that food and fuel logistics problems might have been there. And yes, losing Moskva was an idiocy.



gambit said:


> or that Russian troops resorted to looting.



Well, that pales in comparison with the crimes done by Americans and rest of NATO in Iraq and elsewhere. 



Deino said:


> Come on … equalling Nazi-Germany with Hitler!??
> This nonsense, BS and these lies here MUST stop! Reported to a higher mod: @The Eagle



Again, I think @Piotr is talking about the government and not many of the people.

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## WotTen

vizier said:


> Recently Zelensky said the negotiations would be off if Mariopol is taken out completely. I dont know what is the stance of Russia about this but if the operation is postphoned several days 400-800 militia+soldiers trapped there wont be a security issue and there is the opportunity of negotiation table again. Also transfer of heavy weapons can be asked by Russia to be delayed entering from Polish border while Russia regroup inside its border during negotiations. That can be an opportunity to consider.



Neither side was ever serious about negotiations. Both sides play the negotiations game as a propaganda ploy to say 'look we tried to be reasonable but the other guys are impossible'.


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## Deino

Piotr said:


> Yes I equal Nazi Germany with Hitler. Are you going to give me negative rating for saying the truth ? I am not afraid.




It was a typo ,… you were clearly equalling the current German chancellor with Hitler and as such the FRG with Nazi Germany, this is open insult, a lie and nothing but propaganda. Therefore a negative rating.


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## WotTen

F-22Raptor said:


> The US launched 500 cruise missiles on Day 1 of Gulf War 2. The US could easily launch 1,000+ cruise missiles in the opening few days and strike all of Russias air bases and staging areas on the border with Ukraine.
> 
> 5 B-2 bombers alone could launch 400 small diameter guided bombs in one pass at 70-100km range and hit moving targets.



No one doubts that the US can deliver a lethal punch anywhere, anytime to anyone, What makes this different is that Russia can return the favor in equal measure to CONUS. This is not a situation the US has faced in recent years and one which the US public will probably never accept.


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## thetutle

Piotr said:


> What about Kosovo ?


Kosovo was taken by Serbia by force and illegally. They never had a right to hang onto in. They tried to genocide the whole population.

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## gambit

jamahir said:


> Hence my previous point about the Russians electronically and laser attacking GPS and Galileo satellites. Russia has the means.


Here is the harsh truth...Given what we have seen so far, what Russia can do in terms of technology is now in serious doubt.



jamahir said:


> Well, that pales in comparison with the crimes done by Americans and rest of NATO in Iraq and elsewhere.


Give it a rest. So you will acknowledge Russian troops looting but not rapes and murder. The crimes committed by Russian troops in Ukraine will not be mitigated by any crime committed by US troops in Iraq. Bottom line is that now the Russian military is perceived as third rate not just in military issues but also in personnel as in less than professional. No amount of sucking up to Russia will salvage that face.

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## Wergeland

Deino said:


> It was a typo ,… you were clearly equalling the current German chancellor with Hitler and as such the FRG with Nazi Germany, this is open insult, a lie and nothing but propaganda. Therefore a negative rating.
> 
> View attachment 835426



@Deino you dodged my question couple of pages back.

Now that you are giving negative rating and you explained why. Will the same apply for members who spread lies about Russia, russians or call Putin Hitler or similar rhetoric.

I believe moderation should be applied in a *fair* way.

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## Deino

Wergeland said:


> @Deino you dodged my question couple of pages back.
> 
> Now that you are giving negative rating and you explained why. Will the same apply for members who spread lies about Russia, russians or call Putin Hitler or similar rhetoric.
> 
> I believe moderation should be applied in a *fair* way.




In fact I did and do whenever I see blatant lies and insulting propaganda. In fact I have not the time to read all the fuss posted here but even if I‘m „only a small moderator able only in the China section“ I at least try to correct the worst misinformation and posts spreading lies. 

Problem is, the first victim as ever it the truth and I think we all should be aware that there are war-crimes from both sides, the spreading of faked propaganda and lies as well as constructed explanations for justifying the own wrong-doing, but I am convinced none of this is either a justified reason for own lies and crimes and even lesser for this war. 

Again, I never denied there is a severe Nazi-problem in Ukraine, that the West hs surely his own part of being responsible for this mess and that - depending your own background and sources of information - one must accept other members with contradicting opinions, but blatant lies like his posts, pure propaganda is something I cannot accept and if you know the SDF I‘m probably the moderator who banned the most such trolls permanently from this forum due to spreading lies, posting images of war crimes and violence. At the same time I‘m well aware that the West - especially the USA have a twistetet relationship to facts too but again this cannot be taken as an explanation for this unjustified war as well as spreading lies to try to justify in in retrospect.

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## vizier

WotTen said:


> Neither side was ever serious about negotiations. Both sides play the negotiations game as a propaganda ploy to say 'look we tried to be reasonable but the other guys are impossible'.


Depending on which gets the upper hand the sides think that they can pull it off militarily and hesitate from negotiations but as the conflict shows military solution is highly costly for both sides.Russia is asymetrically strong in eastern parts and would give continious damage to Ukraine forces. In west with continious arms support and heavy arms Ukraine forces are strong and can take back Kherson. They will threaten Crimea as well which is geographically hard to support which only has Kerch strait and sea lines other than Russian controlled land route with Donetsk. Russia will have losses there. There is risk of Russian nuclear in Crimea but if Ukraine just harasses and hit run attacks saying leaving Crimea issue to table Russia wont be using nukes at least not by claiming risk of disintegration or similar.


Now if mariopol final operation is postphoned a few days and Ukraine does not accept new negotiations that would be a Russian opportunity to say that Ukr does not want negotiations. Inverse is also true if Mariopol Russian final op starts Ukraine would say Russia is not after any negotiations that is why they started. They have agreed a few items in Istanbul meeting and they can continue from there. At least they can build a few items on top of previous negotiations.


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## jamahir

gambit said:


> Here is the harsh truth...Given what we have seen so far, what Russia can do in terms of technology is now in serious doubt.



That is not so. Please read this post of mine from yesterday.



gambit said:


> Give it a rest. So you will acknowledge Russian troops looting but not rapes and murder.



I am just mentioning NATO crimes where needed.  As for Russian looting, two vids of some Russian soldiers collecting some material from a supermarket and the vid having the background of a comedy music, you cannot propagate these Zelensky thoughts. Rather than looting, the Russians have been delivering tons of food and other emergency supplies to Ukrainian citizens in the cities they took control of. Why don't you acknowledge that ? This might have been the context of those Zelensky comedy vids.


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## CAPRICORN-88




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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516007612856340484

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515970937270804480

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515977057607499780

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## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> Did not know you had to ration sympathy now . Stupid argument.
> 
> 
> ~


its already sanctioned , what we see is show run by hypocrites.
not a single of the one who cried here cried for those countries .
not a single wealthy of those countries had a cent of their wealth confiscated.
not a single one of them helped those countries in their fight.

and suddenly when come to Ukraine everyone run to give hand out , every one ran to condemn it. everyone run to confiscate something . and meanwhile what do Ukrainian oligarch do, sell those handout in black market and stash the money in their offshore bank account .
there are reports from EU that Ukraine report using one week worth of ammunition in just one day ,what you think really happen to them . do you think one third of USA and NATO stock pile of weapons is a joking matter that is not accounted for after just 50 day and Ukraine again ask for more and more of them. open your eye and you see what Ukraine oligarch are doing there

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515944819591630850

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## CAPRICORN-88



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## Hack-Hook

vizier said:


> Recently Zelensky said the negotiations would be off if Mariopol is taken out completely. I dont know what is the stance of Russia about this but if the operation is postphoned several days 400-800 militia+soldiers trapped there wont be a security issue and there is the opportunity of negotiation table again. Also transfer of heavy weapons can be asked by Russia to be delayed entering from Polish border while Russia regroup inside its border during negotiations. That can be an opportunity to consider.


don't be naïve , when the Mariupol ends , Russia will free lots of its force to do operation in Donbas and then Zelensky beg for negotiation


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## CAPRICORN-88



Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515981900271296522

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516004708523155462


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516004708523155462




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515934278894628866

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515899020173983746

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515972234036539394


https://twitter.com/i/events/1483255084750282753

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## CAPRICORN-88

Russian operations has indeed intensified.since Sr General Dvornikov took over. 

Bad news for Zalensky.

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## Piotr

Kiev Plans to Shell Churches on Orthodox Easter to Accuse Russian Forces of War Crimes - Russian MoD​3 hours ago







Orthodox Christians will celebrate Easter on Sunday 24 April this year. Eastern Orthodoxy is the predominant Christian denomination in Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and southeastern Europe, as well as some parts of the Middle East.
Russia's Defence Ministry has information that Ukrainian authorities are planning to carry out a "terrible" provocation on Orthodox Easter, and is appealing to Western governments, the United Nations and the Organisation for Security Co-operation in Europe to prevent it from taking place, Col. Gen. Mikhail Mizintsev, the head of the National Defence Control Centre, has announced.

"We are warning countries of the 'Civilised West' led by the United States ahead of time that the Russian Federation has an operational base of evidence about terrible crimes planned by the Kiev regime," Mizintsev said in a briefing in Moscow on Monday.
Kiev, according to the officer, plans to shell churches using mortars in a number of regions of Ukraine, including Zaporozhye, Nikolaev, Odessa, Sumy and Kharkov on Easter night, and to subsequently blame Russia for the massacre of civilians. A number of Western countries are said to be involved in the planning of the provocation, which is to be carried out by over 70 mobile groups formed among ultra-nationalist battalions in mortar-equipped vans and off-road vehicles.
"Kiev plans to gather a large number of reporters from Western news agencies to document these alleged 'Russian atrocities' and to immediately and cynically spin these fakes," he said.

"We call on the United Nations, the OSCE, the International Committee of the Red Cross and other international organisations to immediately influence the Kiev regime to prevent this inhuman provocation, which disregards all norms of morality and international humanitarian law," Mizintsev said.
The National Defence Control Centre chief noted that the MoD's warning has been communicated to all of the above-mentioned international bodies using available means.
The Russian military and captured neo-Nazi militants have already provided evidence on suspected war crimes by Kiev-aligned forces against religious sites in recent weeks. Earlier this month, a captured Azov Regiment fighter revealed that Ukrainian forces deliberately fired on the Svyatogorsk Monastery in Donetsk -a major local architectural landmark and Orthodox holy site, in March.

"It was all done on purpose, to make it look like it was shelled by Russian forces. In reality it was the Ukrainian army doing the shooting, to further inflame the conflict with Russia," the militant said.
The monastery was shelled on the night of 12 March, damaging the shrine, a bridge connecting the complex to the city of Svyatogorsk, knocking down trees and leaving shrapnel in the monastery's walls. Two civilians were killed.
The captured militant further revealed that Ukrainian forces have been using the tactic of disguising themselves as civilians and travelling in bank vans and ambulances with mortars hidden inside.
Last month, the Russian MoD accused Ukrainian radicals from the Aidar battalion of keeping 300 civilians and monks hostage in the settlement of Nikolskoe, Donetsk. Russian and Donbass militia forces were said to have killed some of the fighters, forcing the rest to disperse.

https://sputniknews.com/20220418/ki...orces-of-war-crimes---russian-1094849478.html

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## CAPRICORN-88




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## Hassan Al-Somal

Zelensky fella has broken down: He is claiming Russia will launch a new offensive in Eastern Ukraine. Of course that was the whole purpose of the "Special Military Operation". He should have had a second thought when he was committing atrocities against his fellow Russian-speaking citizens who live in the Donbass region. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516031730473385984

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## RoadAmerica

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> How do you judge a war?
> By the number of beautiful buildings left standing?
> 
> 
> 
> Lesson in life.
> 
> Don't opt for war if an option for peace is available.
> 
> Why didn't Zalensky comply with the signed Minsk II agreement?


Why didn’t Putin adhere to the Budapest Memo?



Clutch said:


> Nope... But Mariupol need to get to the back of the line and wait their turn for sympathies. Those other countries/cities are ahead of the line.


Sounding like a true racist


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

RoadAmerica said:


> Why didn’t Putin adhere to the Budapest Memo?


Budapest Memo refers to NPT and also an agreement that NATO will not expands eastward towards Russia. 
When the US and West breached the original agreement, don't raise it now. It is irrelevant. 

It is the West that failed to comply when they recruited new member to NATO.

Minsk II pointed directly to the GENOCIDE commonly used by the US in Dombass since 2014. And the settlement refers to more autonomy for the Eastern Provinces but now it is TOO LATE.

The UK and US cannot have the cake and eat it.
Think about it.

That is the double standard and hypocrisy of the US and allies.

The world has awakened. So don't try any mote new trick and be contended Asia remained NEUTRAL.

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## Piotr

RoadAmerica said:


> Why didn’t Putin adhere to the Budapest Memo?



USA violated Budapest Memorandum by founding coup against democratically elected president of the Ukraine Yanukovych in 2014. Russia didn't violated Budapest Memorandum.

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## RoadAmerica

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515916080811757569


 That fat pos isn’t fighting anything



CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Budapest Memo refers to NPT and also an agreement that NATO will not expands eastward towards Russia.
> When the US and West breached the original agreement, don't raise it now. It is irrelevant.
> 
> It is the West that failed to comply when they recruited new member to NATO.
> 
> Minsk II pointed directly to the GENOCIDE commonly used by the US in Dombass since 2014. And the settlement refers to more autonomy for the Eastern Provinces but now it is TOO LATE.
> 
> The UK and US cannot have the cake and eat it.
> Think about it.
> 
> That is the double standard and hypocrisy of the US and allies.
> 
> The world has awakened. So don't try any mote new trick and be contended Asia remained NEUTRAL.


Incorrect it did not forbid further nato membership. Plus you seem to gloss over Russia first breaking it in ‘14.


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## Clutch

sammuel said:


> Did not know you had to ration sympathy now . Stupid argument.
> 
> 
> ~



Those who have been suffering longer deserve a first right to adjust resolution and shouldn't be dismissed because some people perceive them as "less human"...


----------



## RoadAmerica

Piotr said:


> USA violated Budapest Memorandum by founding coup against democratically elected president of the Ukraine Yanukovych in 2014. Russia didn't violated Budapest Memorandum.


This is simply a talking point and if it was true we all know it was more than the US involved. So again Russia first broke it in ‘14. Also please remember China signed the memo later so this indeed effects China as well.



Clutch said:


> Those who have been suffering longer deserve a first right to adjust resolution and shouldn't be dismissed because some people perceive them as "less human"...


I’m sure god feels the same way


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## Ali_Baba

*Russia loses 2 more Top Commanders*









Putin's double humiliating loss - two more top commanders killed


VLADIMIR Putin has suffered a double humiliation after two key Russian commanders were killed in battle during the war in Ukraine.




www.express.co.uk

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## CAPRICORN-88

RoadAmerica said:


> This is simply a talking point and if it was true we all know it was more than the US involved. So again Russia first broke it in ‘14. Also please remember China signed the memo later so this indeed effects China as well.
> 
> 
> I’m sure god feels the same way


Can you explained precisely how does it affects China?


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## CAPRICORN-88

RoadAmerica said:


> That fat pos isn’t fighting anything
> 
> 
> Incorrect it did not forbid further nato membership. Plus you seem to gloss over Russia first breaking it in ‘14.


https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSdSAF4X1/

This document, a memo was filed in the British Archive.

Stop inventing silly propaganda nonsenses in here based on your askew mindset.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Ali_Baba said:


> *Russia loses 2 more Top Commanders*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin's double humiliating loss - two more top commanders killed
> 
> 
> VLADIMIR Putin has suffered a double humiliation after two key Russian commanders were killed in battle during the war in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.express.co.uk



*Can they corroborated the story or will they reappeared like that those living ghosts - the Captain of Moskva and all his crew who was killed in the explosion as alleged by UK Medias?*

Sorry. IMO the US and UK News Media should be read with the a pinch of salt.

  

Just like the fake video of a missile test by the Swedish Military and then posted as Russia Moskva.

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## mmr

Ali_Baba said:


> *Russia loses 2 more Top Commanders*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin's double humiliating loss - two more top commanders killed
> 
> 
> VLADIMIR Putin has suffered a double humiliation after two key Russian commanders were killed in battle during the war in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.express.co.uk


So far 8 generals died


----------



## Meengla

thetutle said:


> Realistically, the California national guard would defeat Russia in Ukraine with a bit of help form the airforce.



You were going fine in your post until this.
Ukraine is a formidable power in its own way and given real time intelligence and unlimited weapons, the bloody nose they have given to the Russians in a DEFENSIVE War is not a surprise. I have often said that Ukraine is no babe in the woods. It is a formidable military force! 
Actually, after said some uncharitable things about the Russian military said by me above, I have to say that they are a focused force and keep pushing on and may well take the entire southeast and south of Ukraine. Yeah, the Russians may lick their wounds after that but they are capable of achieving more than consolation gains by doing so.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516049340162314241
You can see them in addition to all of the vehicles captured in the Ilyich plant in Mariupol in this below Telegraph link:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511384933654224896

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Ali_Baba said:


> *Russia loses 2 more Top Commanders*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin's double humiliating loss - two more top commanders killed
> 
> 
> VLADIMIR Putin has suffered a double humiliation after two key Russian commanders were killed in battle during the war in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.express.co.uk




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516060304936943622

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516066516533493765

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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> You were going fine in your post until this.
> Ukraine is a formidable power in its own way and given real time intelligence and unlimited weapons, the bloody nose they have given to the Russians in a DEFENSIVE War is not a surprise. I have often said that Ukraine is no babe in the woods. It is a formidable military force!
> Actually, after said some uncharitable things about the Russian military said by me above, I have to say that they are a focused force and keep pushing on and may well take the entire southeast and south of Ukraine. Yeah, the Russians may lick their wounds after that but they are capable of achieving more than consolation gains by doing so.


We will see. I just saw the town hall in Sydney the biggest city in Australia. It had a Ukranian flag on it. This is very unusual. The west or at least the Anglo powers will not let Ukraine lose. 

So as formidable as Russia is, and we can see its not very formidable at all, the constant flow of money and weapons will ensure they do not succeed in this war.

They have to be stopped at some point, Ukraine is as good place as any. The west is determined that this ends in Russia's ruin. I dont see any other outcome. Anyone that thinks Russia will be allowed to expand its borders is totally deluded.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516006768068988935

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516065413855121417

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516069572163612680


----------



## zartosht

Viet said:


> Again, that’s the beauty why the West is rich, prosperous, developed, mighty army, clean tap water, great foods, people having 2 or 3 holidays per year. Leaders as Merkel, Macron or Trump will go out office after a fixed periods. check and balance.
> 
> You can chose living in venezuela, cuba, russia as you like. Please don’t bother other people.


are you really vietnamese? I used to have trememdous respect for vietnamese people based on their anti-colonial struggle.
but The cringe of reading this supposed vietposts is painful...

all that napalm the americans threw on your parents/grandparents are really starting to show their effect. Literally 15-20% of Vietnams entire populations was slaughtered by the americans a couple decades ago, the entire female population became slaves of american troops voluntarility or involuntarily and this dudes more catholic then the pope. 


on a sidenote: That sinking of the 40 year old rust bucket will turn out to be a blessing in disguise for Russia. That rustbucket had very little practical use, and was an outright liability. it wasnt even armed with the latest missiles like kalibres.

The crew is almost entirely safe to go work on a newer ship.

However the loss of prestige is enough that the entire Russian media and social media is in an *absolute state of rage*

This is exactly the mentality one needs to win wars. The soviet army that marched into Berlin absolutely despised everything German/Nazi. It was hate on an unimaginable level that allowed them to sustain 10s of millions of casualties and still win.

this "new phase" were hearing about is the gloves coming off.... Not even Putin can calm the rage down now, There has to be serious consequences to restore pride. Expect absolute hell to be unleashed on ukraine going forward. and the ukies are justafiably nervous

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516022391104806912


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Everyone should listen to *Tulsi Gabbard* 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500289771658219520

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## F-22Raptor

jamahir said:


> How will those bombs be guided ?
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Well, I was talking about the 2003 invasion but you are saying that even in 1991 the Iraqi military was formidable despite just having been through eight years of war with Iran ( that war being unfortunate ) ?
> 
> 2. How come Kiev's international airport is still operational and the Russians have not bombed it ? How are NATO leaders able to freely enter Kiev ? I have read in these pages that the Russians may now start to target administrative facilities in Kiev that may include the international airport too and the roads leading into Kiev.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand how @Deino gave you a negative rating for this. It is undeniable that Zelensky's military is full of Bandera and Azov Nazis who didn't hesitate to commit crimes against Ukranian citizens and against the now-independent two republics.





The US regularly trains in degraded GPS environments. Thats nothing new for the US military.


----------



## jamahir

F-22Raptor said:


> The US regularly trains in degraded GPS environments. Thats nothing new for the US military.



What is the extent of this "degraded environment" ? All gone offline ?


----------



## jamahir

zartosht said:


> are you really vietnamese? I used to have trememdous respect for vietnamese people based on their anti-colonial struggle.
> but The cringe of reading this supposed vietposts is painful...
> 
> all that napalm the americans threw on your parents/grandparents are really starting to show their effect. Literally 15-20% of Vietnams entire populations was slaughtered by the americans a couple decades ago, the entire female population became slaves of american troops voluntarility or involuntarily and this dudes more catholic then the pope.



@Viet seems to be a leftover of the USA-supported South Vietnamese administration. 



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Everyone should listen to *Tulsi Gabbard* 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500289771658219520



"Making weapons for Al Qaeda". Hmm, that needs to be told again and again in American high circles.

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## F-22Raptor

jamahir said:


> What is the extent of this "degraded environment" ? All gone offline ?




he SDB-II uses jam-resistant GPS/INS targeting like Boeing’s GBU-39 SDB-I, but its added seeker features 3 modes of operation: semi-active laser, millimeter-wave radar, and uncooled imaging infrared. By combining these 3 modes, the GBU-53 can have excellent performance against a variety of target types, under any weather conditions, while making it much more difficult to use countermeasures or decoys successfully









Moving Target: Raytheons GBU-53 Small Diameter Bomb II


The 250 pound GBU-39 Small Diameter Bomb gives American fighters the ability to carry more high-precision GPS-guided glide bombs, without sacrificing punching power against fortified targets. The initial award to Boeing was controversial, and



www.defenseindustrydaily.com


----------



## thetutle

zartosht said:


> all that napalm the americans threw on your parents/grandparents are really starting to show their effect. Literally 15-20% of Vietnams entire populations was slaughtered by the americans a couple decades ago, the entire female population became slaves of american troops voluntarility or involuntarily and this dudes more catholic then the pope.


I dont know if they teach stuff like this in Iran, but North Vietnam, a regime no different to North Korea invaded South Vietnam. And US tried to save them. They did to succeed, obviously. I dont know if you think Communist regimes just had a right to invade whomever they wanted? But obviously US devastated them and as you say killed a tremendous number of people there. The same happened in Korea and the same would have happened in East Germany if they were stupid enough to invade their neighbour. 


zartosht said:


> on a sidenote: That sinking of the 40 year old rust bucket will turn out to be a blessing in disguise for Russia. That rustbucket had very little practical use, and was an outright liability. it wasnt even armed with the latest missiles like kalibres.
> 
> The crew is almost entirely safe to go work on a newer ship.


Thats what I think. Any Russian ship 40 years old should just be decommissioned. Save the Ukrainians the missiles. Those ships have no practical use. In fact, can you show me a Russian ship that has any practical use?


zartosht said:


> However the loss of prestige is enough that the entire Russian media and social media is in an *absolute state of rage*


Why? It was just an accident.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516022391104806912




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516033692170436610


----------



## jamahir

F-22Raptor said:


> he SDB-II uses jam-resistant GPS/INS targeting like Boeing’s GBU-39 SDB-I, but its added seeker features 3 modes of operation: semi-active laser, millimeter-wave radar, and uncooled imaging infrared. By combining these 3 modes, the GBU-53 can have excellent performance against a variety of target types, under any weather conditions, while making it much more difficult to use countermeasures or decoys successfully
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moving Target: Raytheons GBU-53 Small Diameter Bomb II
> 
> 
> The 250 pound GBU-39 Small Diameter Bomb gives American fighters the ability to carry more high-precision GPS-guided glide bombs, without sacrificing punching power against fortified targets. The initial award to Boeing was controversial, and
> 
> 
> 
> www.defenseindustrydaily.com



Thanks for the description and the link. I am logging-off so will read this tomorrow and reply.



thetutle said:


> I dont know if they teach stuff like this in Iran, but North Vietnam, a regime no different to North Korea invaded South Vietnam. And US tried to save them. They did to succeed, obviously. I dont know if you think Communist regimes just had a right to invade whomever they wanted? But obviously US devastated them and as you say killed a tremendous number of people there. The same happened in Korea and the same would have happened in East Germany if they were stupid enough to invade their neighbour.



LOL.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516022391104806912





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516011432399282180


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516085727058178052


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516096733620707336


----------



## Type59

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516085727058178052


It would devastating, if they hit NATO weapon shipments.


----------



## gambit

jamahir said:


> That is not so. Please read this post of mine from yesterday.


I stopped taking you seriously a long time ago when it comes to technology issues.



jamahir said:


> I am just mentioning NATO crimes where needed.


Why is it 'needed' here?



jamahir said:


> As for Russian looting, two vids of some Russian soldiers collecting some material from a supermarket and the vid having the background of a comedy music, you cannot propagate these Zelensky thoughts. Rather than looting, the Russians have been delivering tons of food and other emergency supplies to Ukrainian citizens in the cities they took control of. Why don't you acknowledge that ? This might have been the context of those Zelensky comedy vids.


Helping civilians are expected. Looting is not.


----------



## DF41

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516011432399282180











《喀秋莎》小女孩演唱_哔哩哔哩_bilibili


v.360kan.com, 视频播放量 1855、弹幕量 0、点赞数 12、投硬币枚数 1、收藏人数 13、转发人数 7, 视频作者 Red英特纳雄耐尔, 作者简介 天下为公，相关视频：小女孩演唱喀秋莎 太可爱了，俄罗斯小姑娘唱喀秋莎，经典苏联歌曲《喀秋莎》俄语原版，配上风姿绰约的俄罗斯女兵，眼睛让人挪不开，苏联民歌《喀秋莎》，苏联电影《这里黎明静悄悄》插曲，堪称经典，当初唱喀秋莎的小女孩长大了~~~~~，俄共宣传片，多国女兵版《喀秋莎》超燃超震撼，激昂的歌声，鼓舞人心，百听不腻！，【少女与战车】喀秋莎（完整版带乌拉），（那兔）喀秋莎完整版，「4k」Катюша 喀秋莎 苏联经典歌曲 俄语




www.bilibili.com

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## Piotr

DF41 said:


> 《喀秋莎》小女孩演唱_哔哩哔哩_bilibili
> 
> 
> v.360kan.com, 视频播放量 1855、弹幕量 0、点赞数 12、投硬币枚数 1、收藏人数 13、转发人数 7, 视频作者 Red英特纳雄耐尔, 作者简介 天下为公，相关视频：小女孩演唱喀秋莎 太可爱了，俄罗斯小姑娘唱喀秋莎，经典苏联歌曲《喀秋莎》俄语原版，配上风姿绰约的俄罗斯女兵，眼睛让人挪不开，苏联民歌《喀秋莎》，苏联电影《这里黎明静悄悄》插曲，堪称经典，当初唱喀秋莎的小女孩长大了~~~~~，俄共宣传片，多国女兵版《喀秋莎》超燃超震撼，激昂的歌声，鼓舞人心，百听不腻！，【少女与战车】喀秋莎（完整版带乌拉），（那兔）喀秋莎完整版，「4k」Катюша 喀秋莎 苏联经典歌曲 俄语
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bilibili.com

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516067560457838594
All is according to plan 🤔

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## Vergennes

lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516120428430958601


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516124494657736707

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516067803811520520
Shared as per request of the missing Russian conscript's father


----------



## Hack-Hook

thetutle said:


> I dont know if they teach stuff like this in Iran, but North Vietnam, a regime no different to North Korea invaded South Vietnam. And US tried to save them. They did to succeed, obviously. I dont know if you think Communist regimes just had a right to invade whomever they wanted? But obviously US devastated them and as you say killed a tremendous number of people there. The same happened in Korea and the same would have happened in East Germany if they were stupid enough to invade their neighbour.


north Vietnam didn't invade outright , there were Viet congs of south Vietnam that were fighting generals and were supported by north ,after USA entered in war in support of south against Viet Congs , then north did its invasion .
in 1958 north entered laos civil war nobody cared much , USA involvement in Vietnam war steadily increased between 1959 to 1964 north officially entered in war in 1963
and it all started by Diem "Denounce the Communist" Campaign


and by the way they don't teach us anything about Indochina wars no matter its first or second or third one . but it seems I knew more about it than the persons who were taught in European or American schools

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## kenyannoobie

I highly doubt a Neptune hit the Moskva. I may be wrong but I suspect a Harpoon while she was maybe diverted by false radar returns or Juke UAVs. Fyi all 3 Blocks also have a land based truck launch system making historically anti Russian Romania bordering the Jukes a likely suspect especially given the short max 150 km range. That's likeliest imo- if it was a Harpoon I doubt it was sub or air delivered.

Secondly the Russians blundered bigly! It seems they were using the Moskva's S 300 system as a floating AA cover-I'd NEVER have used that arsenal ship in such a confined space. Too little room to manoeuvre.
I'd have gone for a pair of Gepard frigates with the medium range Shtil SAMs. Though half the range of the S 300 I think operating as a pair coupled with judicious Russian use of High Altitude drones like the BAS 62 should've been effective.



> Along with low-frequency radars, the Russian UAV is equipped with an electronic warfare system that allows you to see the enemy’s aircraft while remaining invisible.


[[URL]https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/s-62.htmurl]

















Equally importantly was the date,the 14th. Fyi, that's 48 hrs before the start of a very important Jewish holiday, Passover wherein Chosenites celebrate escaping Egyptian slavery and the death of their enemies kids. 

_Purim — March 17. ..._
_Pesach / Passover — April 16-23_.

https://www.jfedstl.org/news-events/upcoming-events/jewish-holiday-list/
_The heartless Pharaoh still refused to free the Israelite slaves. So God, brought about one last plague, which was so terrible that it was certain to persuade Pharaoh to let his slaves go.

That night, God sent the angel of death to kill the firstborn sons of the Egyptians. God told Moses to order the Israelite families to sacrifice a lamb and smear the blood on the door of their houses. In this way the angel would know to 'pass over' the houses of the Israelites. This is why the festival commemorating the escape from Egypt is known as Passover.
https://www.bl.uk/learning/cult/inside/goldhaggadahstories/passover/thepassover.html_
*Yes! These people celebrate the death of other people's kids and have been doing so for 3000 yrs!*
I know it was 2 days early but I doubt it's too late for them to enjoy the negative energy harvest to celebrate their anti human cult. Btw, look at many false flags like the Beirut micro nuke: many fall on or near Jewish holidays.

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## Wood

The Mujahedeen? 🤔

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516127026868072463

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Assault on Azovstal - Situation on the evening of 04/18/22 - The assault units of the DPR and the Russian Federation took control of the northern sector of the industrial zone of the Azovstal plant and are currently cleaning up there, including underground utilities.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516088883078963200
It is official: The second wave of the offensive is on.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516121368965881856

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## mmr

Wood said:


> View attachment 835622
> 
> 
> The Mujahedeen? 🤔


Ha ha


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516137575743995905

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516128493905616907


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516088317594451976


----------



## Wergeland

Russia biggest problem is that it has no ideology. It really cant rally international opinion and support like it used to during its communist days.

I mean why should Ukrainians would want to join Russia? leaving out Russian speaking Ukrainian, there really isnt anything special Russia has that the EU and the West dont have.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516081563527782412

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516077691799318549

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516038451199721478


----------



## K_Bin_W

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516081563527782412
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516077691799318549
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516038451199721478


Never thought about feeding and caring for POWs, that is another big field challenge ..


----------



## BHAN85

Wergeland said:


> Russia biggest problem is that it has no ideology. It really cant rally international opinion and support like it used to during its communist days.
> 
> I mean *why should Ukrainians would want to join Russia? *leaving out Russian speaking Ukrainian, there really isnt anything special Russia has that the EU and the West dont have.


To avoid a war and the destruction of their country.

Ukraine war has no sense for common Ukrainian people, it has only sense for corrupt Kiev elite who take bribes from the West.

Ukraine had a normal life under Russian rule until 2014.

But now, they will never rise economically again, the economic damage will last decades.

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## Ali_Baba

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516067560457838594
> All is according to plan 🤔



Lol - Pretty soon - it will be - go to moscow university - get a PhD and use that to clean the streets - nice one.

Those companies are not going back anytime soon. It takes decades to get them there and then they move out in days - never to return.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515800678983249926

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516138076329848840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516116915642581002


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516102097560821761

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516097038081052672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516097038081052672

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## Wergeland

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516102097560821761
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516097038081052672



Man that second clip really gave me flashback to my military service days. I dont care what anybody says, but i feel with a soldiers life, regardless of where they are from. A soldier only obeys his commanders and do his duty.

War is always a fight to the bottom. I hate it with passion. Thats why i respect the sacrifice from a soldier.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516040416843517952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516154710851567622


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516154441401053186

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516146607653367809

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516149897589837831

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516147696708505613

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516147696708505613


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516154441401053186
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516146607653367809
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516149897589837831
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516147696708505613


Not to worry friends, those explosions in Mykolaiv are from Ukrainian weapons detonating on Russian positions. The explosions near Kharkiv are from Ukrainians cutting off the Izyum salient.

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## Wood



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## kingQamaR

This has to be one of the most pointless wars in history. Undoubtedly there are too many regimes with dark ages mentality with so much paranoia. NATO will never intentionally start a war with Russia unless they are forced to by Russian actions but Russia just cannot see or believe this. Until their regime wake up to reality and embrace the 21st century we will sadly witness further unnecessary threats and violence from Russia

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516110985911808008


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516147844121571329


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516135940410200065


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516175384819154958

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## Wergeland

Mildly interesting

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516142465182539790

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516144450132758533

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516146967088402437

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516174087839748101

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516144459012087813

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516041473833115660

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516185621701791746


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## RoadAmerica

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSdSAF4X1/
> 
> This document, a memo was filed in the British Archive.
> 
> Stop inventing silly propaganda nonsenses in here based on your askew mindset.


Nice TikTok yawn. 
China signed onto the Budapest memo, thought you would have known that.

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## Elvin

It is ridiculous how Russia will charge the members of the Ukrainian military for defending their land and country. To proclaim it is a crime to stand and fight an invading force or the forces of proxy republic(s) is absurd and anyone who supports this is no better. Anarchy is the road to chaos and people who support this are no better than savages and barbarians.

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## CAPRICORN-88

RoadAmerica said:


> Nice TikTok yawn.
> China signed onto the Budapest memo, thought you would have known that.


*True it will be totally irrelevant to one unless they have acquired new reading and listening skill.*

Like any underachiever you will naturally starts yawning. 

Then perhaps you will starts to understand what this man is saying or his points and your life will changed.

Since you could not answer my question as to how as a witness to an pledge, a memo by the US and EU members that NATO will not expand eastward towards Russia affects China and her reputation and NOT those nations which were durectly involved?

That is rather sneaky, trying to involve China.

But Asia understands and the rest of the real world understand which explained why* Panama has just refused to meet US State Secretary Antony Blinkens. *
How humiliating?

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## nangyale

Elvin said:


> It is ridiculous how Russia will charge the members of the Ukrainian military for defending their land and country. To proclaim it is a crime to stand and fight an invading force or the forces of proxy republic(s) is absurd and anyone who supports this is no better. Anarchy is the road to chaos and people who support this are no better than savages and barbarians.


What was the word the Americans used to label resistance fighters during US's Global War of Terror .. ..... Illegal Combatant. Guess the Russians can use the same label.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Elvin said:


> It is ridiculous how Russia will charge the members of the Ukrainian military for defending their land and country. To proclaim it is a crime to stand and fight an invading force or the forces of proxy republic(s) is absurd and anyone who supports this is no better. Anarchy is the road to chaos and people who support this are no better than savages and barbarians.


One must begins with Ukraine and Zalensky himself. Don't be lobeside.

Let 's not forget before Russia invasion, Zalensky has jailed opposition members, shut down TV channels, New Media and arrested journalists that criticized him and his regime.

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## RoadAmerica

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *True it will be totally irrelevant to one unless they have acquired new reading and listening skill.*
> 
> Like any underachiever you will naturally starts yawning.
> 
> Then perhaps you will starts to understand what the point this man is saying and your life will changed.
> 
> Since you could not answer my question as to how as a witness to an pledge, a memo by the US and EU members that NATO will not expand eastward towards Russia affects China and her reputation and NOT those nations which were durectly involved?
> 
> That is rather sneaky, trying to involve China.
> 
> But Asia understands and the rest of the real world understand which explained why* Panama has just refused to meet US State Secretary Antony Blinkens. *
> How humiliating?


Man guess I’ll tune you out, personal attacks expected from a low iq individual

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## That Guy

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516185621701791746


I give it 2 weeks, maybe 3 before Ukraine takes back Kherson.

The Russians are losing this war, and they're losing badly.

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## CAPRICORN-88

RoadAmerica said:


> Man guess I’ll tune you out, personal attacks expected from a low iq individual


  

That is both childish and immature but still did not answer my curious but pertinent question for you.


----------



## DF41

DF41 said:


> 《喀秋莎》小女孩演唱_哔哩哔哩_bilibili
> 
> 
> v.360kan.com, 视频播放量 1855、弹幕量 0、点赞数 12、投硬币枚数 1、收藏人数 13、转发人数 7, 视频作者 Red英特纳雄耐尔, 作者简介 天下为公，相关视频：小女孩演唱喀秋莎 太可爱了，俄罗斯小姑娘唱喀秋莎，经典苏联歌曲《喀秋莎》俄语原版，配上风姿绰约的俄罗斯女兵，眼睛让人挪不开，苏联民歌《喀秋莎》，苏联电影《这里黎明静悄悄》插曲，堪称经典，当初唱喀秋莎的小女孩长大了~~~~~，俄共宣传片，多国女兵版《喀秋莎》超燃超震撼，激昂的歌声，鼓舞人心，百听不腻！，【少女与战车】喀秋莎（完整版带乌拉），（那兔）喀秋莎完整版，「4k」Катюша 喀秋莎 苏联经典歌曲 俄语
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bilibili.com












“喀秋莎”到底是啥意思？俄国美女解释道：千万不要随便喊_哔哩哔哩_bilibili


“喀秋莎”到底是啥意思？俄国美女解释道：千万不要随便喊




www.bilibili.com





Read the comments translated to English if you cannot follow the Chinese


----------



## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## Elvin

nangyale said:


> What was the word the Americans used to label resistance fighters during US's Global War of Terror .. ..... Illegal Combatant. Guess the Russians can use the same label.




Yea those were one off independent armed groups parallel and outside of the control of the official Iraqi military. This here is the official Ukrainian army, even though a fascist unit, nonetheless part of the official government forces.



CAPRICORN-88 said:


> One must begins with Ukraine and Zalensky himself. Don't be lobeside.
> 
> Let 's not forget before Russia invasion, Zalensky has jailed opposition members, shut down TV channels, New Media and arrested journalists that criticized him and his regime.


 Sure, but that was all done within the sovereignty of Ukraine, not by outside governments.


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## Meengla

Elvin said:


> It is ridiculous how Russia will charge the members of the Ukrainian military for defending their land and country. To proclaim it is a crime to stand and fight an invading force or the forces of proxy republic(s) is absurd and anyone who supports this is no better. Anarchy is the road to chaos and people who support this are no better than savages and barbarians.


Yes.
Same way saddam was hanged by a kangaroo court of puppets propped up by an invading force.



nangyale said:


> What was the word the Americans used to label resistance fighters during US's Global War of Terror .. ..... Illegal Combatant. Guess the Russians can use the same label.



You are correct as is the guy you quoted!

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## Dalit

Wergeland said:


> Man that second clip really gave me flashback to my military service days. I dont care what anybody says, but i feel with a soldiers life, regardless of where they are from. A soldier only obeys his commanders and do his duty.
> 
> War is always a fight to the bottom. I hate it with passion. Thats why i respect the sacrifice of a soldier.



Aren't soldiers that fuel wars?

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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516174087839748101









经典苏联歌曲《喀秋莎》俄语原版，配上风姿绰约的俄罗斯女兵，眼睛让人挪不开_哔哩哔哩_bilibili


《喀秋莎》(俄文：Катюша)是苏联经典民谣歌曲，创作于1938年。这首歌旋律优美，不仅在俄罗斯国内非常受欢迎，也在世界各地也广为传唱，是一首名副其实的世界经典名曲。配上英姿飒爽的俄罗斯女兵阅兵画面，不知不觉听醉了！




www.bilibili.com

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## ARMalik

There is a lot of misinformation being spread on this forum. Let's do a reality check.

1- Ukraine is the largest land mass country in Europe after Russia.

2- From day-1, Russia announced that it wanted to protect the civilians and to DEMILITRIZE Ukraine. Hence that is why Russian strategy was to *slowly encircle *the Ukraine Military and use precision weapons to destroy Military depots and supplies. *Muriupol is an perfect example of this strategy.*

3- Due to the above strategy, it will take time for Russia to fully destroy Ukraine Military. *If Russia would have gone in with all guns blazing like the US in Iraq, Ukraine would have been rubble by now. *

4- Russia is not only fighting Ukraine Military it is *ALSO FIGHTING NATO MILITARY PERSONNEL IMBEDDED WITHIN UKRAINE MILITARY !! *Yes you HEARD it right - NATO military personnel were imbedded with Ukraine Military.

5- Make no mistake, as we speak, *Ukraine Military being decimated.* There are countless videos on TELEGRAM showing *Russian and Chechens Troops* absolutely annihilating AZOV battalion in *Muriupol. *The Commander of AZOV Faction was captured and set on fire. Literally barbecued because this fellow was responsible for killing of many Russian citizens.

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## PakFactor

ARMalik said:


> There is a lot of misinformation being spread on this forum. Let's do a reality check.
> 
> 1- Ukraine is the largest land mass country in Europe after Russia.
> 
> 2- From day-1, Russia announced that it wanted to protect the civilians and to DEMILITRIZE Ukraine. Hence that is why Russian strategy was to *slowly encircle *the Ukraine Military and use precision weapons to destroy Military depots and supplies. *Muriupol is an perfect example of this strategy.*
> 
> 3- Due to the above strategy, it will take time for Russia to fully destroy Ukraine Military. *If Russia would have gone in with all guns blazing like the US in Iraq, Ukraine would have been rubble by now. *
> 
> 4- Russia is not only fighting Ukraine Military it is *ALSO FIGHTING NATO MILITARY PERSONNEL IMBEDDED WITHIN UKRAINE MILITARY !! *Yes you HEARD it right - NATO military personnel were imbedded with Ukraine Military.
> 
> 5- Make no mistake, as we speak, *Ukraine Military being decimated.* There are countless videos on TELEGRAM showing *Russian and Chechens Troops* absolutely annihilating AZOV battalion in *Muriupol. *The Commander of AZOV Faction was captured and set on fire. Literally barbecued because this fellow was responsible for killing of many Russian citizens.



Can you share the BBQ video if not here on my profile page please --

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## Meengla

ARMalik said:


> There is a lot of misinformation being spread on this forum. Let's do a reality check.
> 
> 1- Ukraine is the largest land mass country in Europe after Russia.
> 
> 2- From day-1, Russia announced that it wanted to protect the civilians and to DEMILITRIZE Ukraine. Hence that is why Russian strategy was to *slowly encircle *the Ukraine Military and use precision weapons to destroy Military depots and supplies. *Muriupol is an perfect example of this strategy.*
> 
> 3- Due to the above strategy, it will take time for Russia to fully destroy Ukraine Military. *If Russia would have gone in with all guns blazing like the US in Iraq, Ukraine would have been rubble by now. *
> 
> 4- Russia is not only fighting Ukraine Military it is *ALSO FIGHTING NATO MILITARY PERSONNEL IMBEDDED WITHIN UKRAINE MILITARY !! *Yes you HEARD it right - NATO military personnel were imbedded with Ukraine Military.
> 
> 5- Make no mistake, as we speak, *Ukraine Military being decimated.* There are countless videos on TELEGRAM showing *Russian and Chechens Troops* absolutely annihilating AZOV battalion in *Muriupol. *The Commander of AZOV Faction was captured and set on fire. Literally barbecued because this fellow was responsible for killing of many Russian citizens.



It is good to have a counter narrative like your's and like the Somalian guest here otherwise, the narrative from the pro Ukraine side is too strong, and we unwittingly become part of fanning a war which could spread too far and destroy a chunk of the region and beyond; Pakistan is cursed to be part of the Eurasian continent and the Subcontinent significantly contributed to and borne the cost of the EUROPEAN world wars. Bloody savage wars! Europeans sure do know how to wage really bloody and protracted wars!! 

Having said this, it makes no sense for Russia to have tried to invade Kiev. If it was a 'distraction' then a very costly distraction.

But it does appear that now Russia has learned from its early mistakes in this war, has regrouped, and is determined to grab and *consolidate *its hold on the southeast of Ukraine, thus providing the 'coveted' land bridge between Crimea and Donbas/Russia; by doing so, the water supply to Crimea is also secured. *Russia seems to be achieving a sort of strategic victory IMHO.*

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## sammuel

Meengla said:


> But it does appear that now Russia has learned from its early mistakes in this war, has regrouped, and is determined to grab and *consolidate *its hold on the southeast of Ukraine, thus providing the 'coveted' land bridge between Crimea and Donbas/Russia; by doing so, the water supply to Crimea is also secured.





It is clear that that is now the goal of Russia is indeed a land bridge between Crimea and Russia. We can determine that by actions we see , taken on the ground,

Some here have no shame , , by still using NATO , denazification , demilitarization excuses. When clearly it is about , taking chunks of Ukraine.

Let us not forget the purpose of this " special operation "

The purpose is to invade another country , conquer land , cause it suits you to carve you a land bridge .

It is not like Russia is exactly building a peace bridge between nations here , is it ?

Right or wrong , you tell me ?














~

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## CAPRICORN-88

Elvin said:


> Sure, but that was all done within the sovereignty of Ukraine, not by outside governments.


That is convenient ignoring the historical fact that both Russia and Ukraine has a complicated relationship and are closely bonded and linked to each other by blood.

Before I bother myself to explain to you the difference or any further, Taiwan, Tibet and Xinjiang are clearly China, care to explain to us why is the USA interfering in China internal affair?


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## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## CAPRICORN-88

*German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier was willing to go to Kyiv*.

But his presence was not welcome there, and so he had to give up his plan.

Many Germans on hearing this are angry and openly expressing their regret that Germany got involved with an ungrateful Ukraine.

Today German firms and their people in support are suffering from high cost of living due to inflation and high energy cost.

*Did Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky committed a serious political blunder?*

Zalensky Ukraine which has been surviving on foreign aids is now demanding that G7 nations to give him USD 50 billion or Ukraine will go bankrupt he threatened.


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## That Guy

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier was willing to go to Kyiv*.
> 
> But his presence was not welcome there, and so he had to give up his plan.
> 
> Many Germans on hearing this are angry and openly expressing their regret that Germany got involved with an ungrateful Ukraine.
> 
> Today German firms and their people in support are suffering from high cost of living due to inflation and high energy cost.
> 
> *Did Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky committed a serious political blunder?*
> 
> Zalensky Ukraine which has been surviving on foreign aids is now demanding that G7 nations to give him USD 50 billion or Ukraine will go bankrupt he threatened.


The Germans withheld aid and had to be shamed into taking action. Some forget, the Germans told Zelensky Ukraine would be taken over with a week as an excuse to not give initial support to Ukraine.

The Germans are STILL reluctant to give aid.

The Ukrainians have every reason to be mad.


----------



## That Guy

ARMalik said:


> There is a lot of misinformation being spread on this forum. Let's do a reality check.
> 
> 1- Ukraine is the largest land mass country in Europe after Russia.
> 
> 2- From day-1, Russia announced that it wanted to protect the civilians and to DEMILITRIZE Ukraine. Hence that is why Russian strategy was to *slowly encircle *the Ukraine Military and use precision weapons to destroy Military depots and supplies. *Muriupol is an perfect example of this strategy.*
> 
> 3- Due to the above strategy, it will take time for Russia to fully destroy Ukraine Military. *If Russia would have gone in with all guns blazing like the US in Iraq, Ukraine would have been rubble by now. *
> 
> 4- Russia is not only fighting Ukraine Military it is *ALSO FIGHTING NATO MILITARY PERSONNEL IMBEDDED WITHIN UKRAINE MILITARY !! *Yes you HEARD it right - NATO military personnel were imbedded with Ukraine Military.
> 
> 5- Make no mistake, as we speak, *Ukraine Military being decimated.* There are countless videos on TELEGRAM showing *Russian and Chechens Troops* absolutely annihilating AZOV battalion in *Muriupol. *The Commander of AZOV Faction was captured and set on fire. Literally barbecued because this fellow was responsible for killing of many Russian citizens.


1) True, which is why this invasion was such a foolish idea.

2) the fact that Mariupol has been devastated, including residential areas from Russian strikes just shows that no, you're wrong.

3) Russia tried to go in guns blazing, they simply didnt have the logistics and support systems in place, not to mention experience needed to launch such a large scale operation. This is why Russia failed to take Kyiv and a vast majority of major cities.

4) that's Russia's problem, not Ukraines. If anything, it just proves that the Russians simply are nowhere near the level of NATO, if a few embedded soldiers from NATO nations (mostly retired volunteers) are capable of slowing down over 120 Russian BTGs. You're basically calling the Russians incompetent, which I agree they are, but I don't think you meant it that way.

5) a war crime, nice. But once again, not true. The Ukrainian military has suffered, but it's not being devastated. The fact they've been able to launch outer offensives against Russia and force a massive retreat is evidence they're doing a good job. Not to mention that Ukrainian military has huge morale. The ONLY place the Russians seem to be making any legitimate headway is Mariupol and some eastern areas, and even then the Russians have spent too many resources into Mariupol to the point that they're close to exhaustion. The soldiers that fought in Mariupol will be too exhausted to participate effectively in other battlefields after Mariupol falls, if it falls.

@LeGenD @RescueRanger @Wood @mmr

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## gambit

nangyale said:


> What was the word the Americans used to label resistance fighters during US's Global War of Terror .. ..... Illegal Combatant. *Guess the Russians can use the same label.*


Actually, no.

First, you must present the Geneva Convention of what make a *LEGAL* combatant.

Then, you must show how the Ukrainian Army and Ukrainian resistance fighters *DO NOT* conform to the Geneva Convention standards.

We did not simply called any resistance fighter 'illegal combatant'.


----------



## Wergeland

Dalit said:


> Aren't soldiers that fuel wars?



No, i believe Not.
Wars are just continuation of politics, so the real culprits are politicians.

Politicians create nations, groups, identities and needs. Politicians also split nations, and if neccesary send people to war.

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## gambit

BHAN85 said:


> To avoid a war and the destruction of their country.
> 
> Ukraine war has no sense for common Ukrainian people, it has only sense for corrupt Kiev elite who take bribes from the West.
> 
> Ukraine had a normal life under Russian rule until 2014.
> 
> But now, they will never rise economically again, the economic damage will last decades.


This is interesting. We can use this argument to take over Mexico and Cuba, then maybe even Venezuela.


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## Wergeland

That Guy said:


> The Germans withheld aid and had to be shamed into taking action. Some forget, the Germans told Zelensky Ukraine would be taken over with a week as an excuse to not give initial support to Ukraine.
> 
> The Germans are STILL reluctant to give aid.
> 
> The Ukrainians have every reason to be mad.



Germans are trying to o
prevent a new great war ok European continent. I support them and the French in their approach. 

Its the US and UK that wants this war to escalate. This is a boon for US weapon manufacturers. The war also keeps Russia and Western Europe bogged down, while creating a second iron curtain that prevents Chinese Belt and Roads route via Russia-Eastern Europe.

Ukrainian leadership is a US installed puppet regime and dosent represent its people. Ukrainians are a splitted people but most of them want a good relationship with both their neighbor Russia and western Europe.

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## gambit

Wergeland said:


> Ukrainian leadership is a US installed puppet regime and dosent represent its people.


This war pretty much killed that argument. That the Urkainians continues to fight means finally they do not care.



Wergeland said:


> Ukrainians are a splitted people but most of them want a good relationship with both their neighbor Russia and western Europe.


What is that 'good' relationship? To Russia, it means a subordinate posture. To the EU, it means at least a contributor to economic prosperity to all members.

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## Clutch

That Guy said:


> The Germans withheld aid and had to be shamed into taking action. Some forget, the Germans told Zelensky Ukraine would be taken over with a week as an excuse to not give initial support to Ukraine.
> 
> The Germans are STILL reluctant to give aid.
> 
> The Ukrainians have every reason to be mad.




The Ukranian are to serve the role of a meat grinder for MATO and the Western powers. This has to be long stretched out war campaign with the goal to degrade Russia militarily and economically..
And of course to make $$$ for the war profiteers in the process

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## Clutch

kingQamaR said:


> This has to be one of the most pointless wars in history. Undoubtedly there are too many regimes with dark ages mentality with so much paranoia. NATO will never intentionally start a war with Russia unless they are forced to by Russian actions but Russia just cannot see or believe this. Until their regime wake up to reality and embrace the 21st century we will sadly witness further unnecessary threats and violence from Russia



You live in fantasy land.... Ask an Iraqi, Yemeni, Palestinian, Yemeni, Libyan, Kashmiri, Bosnian, Syrian, about this illusionary fantastically evolved 21st century humanity...

I say... We are still the savages we always were.

As Einstein said, "I do not know what [destructive] weapons WW III will be fought with, but WW IV will be fought with sticks and stones".

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## ARMalik

That Guy said:


> 1) True, which is why this invasion was such a foolish idea.
> 
> 2) the fact that Mariupol has been devastated, including residential areas from Russian strikes just shows that no, you're wrong.
> 
> 3) Russia tried to go in guns blazing, they simply didnt have the logistics and support systems in place, not to mention experience needed to launch such a large scale operation. This is why Russia failed to take Kyiv and a vast majority of major cities.
> 
> 4) that's Russia's problem, not Ukraines. If anything, it just proves that the Russians simply are nowhere near the level of NATO, if a few embedded soldiers from NATO nations (mostly retired volunteers) are capable of slowing down over 120 Russian BTGs. You're basically calling the Russians incompetent, which I agree they are, but I don't think you meant it that way.
> 
> 5) a war crime, nice. But once again, not true. The Ukrainian military has suffered, but it's not being devastated. The fact they've been able to launch outer offensives against Russia and force a massive retreat is evidence they're doing a good job. Not to mention that Ukrainian military has huge morale. The ONLY place the Russians seem to be making any legitimate headway is Mariupol and some eastern areas, and even then the Russians have spent too many resources into Mariupol to the point that they're close to exhaustion. The soldiers that fought in Mariupol will be too exhausted to participate effectively in other battlefields after Mariupol falls, if it falls.
> 
> @LeGenD @RescueRanger @Wood @mmr



Respectfully, I disagree. Please listen to respected *US General (retd) Douglas Mcgregor *for unbiased view. In the next few weeks we are going to see destruction of Ukrainian Military on the scale only seen in WW2. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516217003085901831

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## Apollon

BHAN85 said:


> To avoid a war and the destruction of their country.
> 
> Ukraine war has no sense for common Ukrainian people, it has only sense for corrupt Kiev elite who take bribes from the West.
> 
> Ukraine had a normal life under Russian rule until 2014.
> 
> But now, they will never rise economically again, the economic damage will last decades.



Russia is poor and offers only brutalism and poverty. Thats the thing, Ukraine under Russia was always opressed, poor and without any hope to develop. Thats why they fight and why its so important for them.

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## Wergeland

gambit said:


> This war pretty much killed that argument. That the Urkainians continues to fight means finally they do not care.
> 
> 
> What is that 'good' relationship? To Russia, it means a subordinate posture. To the EU, it means at least a contributor to economic prosperity to all members.



Its very easy to start a war. The war started when UK and US infiltrated the Ukrainian politics and imposed a puppet regime. From then on Ukraine gradualy was made into a anti-Russian state. When i say state i mean state apparatus including armed forces leadership, because most of the civillians never wanted bad relationship with Russians.

The Zelensky puppet regime and his minions in the political and military complex are all funded by USA and UK. What they do is only their responibility and speaks not for the Ukrainian majority civilians. Ukrainian media is of course also either compromised or intimidated into towing US foreign policy diktat.

Conclusion: Ukraine suffers from Classic colonial intervention from USA. In that regard, it can be regarded as a banana republic. But the difference is that it is not Uncle Sams backyard but the birthplace of Russia.

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## Dalit

Wergeland said:


> No, i believe Not.
> Wars are just continuation of politics, so the real culprits are politicians.
> 
> Politicians create nations, groups, identities and needs. Politicians also split nations, and if neccesary send people to war.



In the end it are soldiers that go on the battlefield to slaughter.


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## Wergeland

Dalit said:


> In the end it are soldiers that go on the battlefield to slaughter.



The soldier only obeys. Its his duty to obey just like its the duty of a doctor to save lifes. This is how it must be if there is to be any ordered society aka civilization.

The responsibility rests on the top descision makers.

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## gambit

Wergeland said:


> Its very easy to start a war.


Yes. Russia learned the hard way.



Wergeland said:


> The war started when UK and US infiltrated the Ukrainian politics and imposed a puppet regime. From then on Ukraine gradualy was made into a anti-Russian state. When i say state i mean state apparatus including armed forces leadership, because most of the civillians never wanted bad relationship with Russians.
> 
> The Zelensky puppet regime and his minions in the political and military complex are all funded by USA and UK. What they do is only their responibility and speaks not the unrainian majority civilians. Ukrainian media is of course also either compromised or intimidated into towing US foreign policy diktat.
> 
> Conclusion: Ukraine suffers from Classic colonial intervention from USA. In that regard, it can be regarded as a banana republic. But the difference is that it is not Uncle Sams backyard but the birthplace of Russia.


When I was active duty, I met a CIA officer while we were waiting on our flights. I was returning to RAF Upper Heyford and he was going to the US Embassy in East Berlin. We had a couple hrs of excellent convos. He told me that if the CIA was as capable as the movies and novels made it out to be, the US would be running the world and everyone would know it.


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## Apollon

Wergeland said:


> The soldier only obeys. Its his duty to obey just like its the duty of a doctor to save lifes. This is how it must be if there is to be any ordered society aka civilization.
> 
> The responsibility rests on the top descision makers.



Wrong, i have a functianal brain. If i get ordered to comitt a massacre or to rape i would denie such an order. Laws in civilized nations give soldiers the right to denie illegal orders


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## Dalit

Wergeland said:


> The soldier only obeys. Its his duty to obey just like its the duty of a doctor to save lifes. This is how it must be if there is to be any ordered society aka civilization.
> 
> The responsibility rests on the top descision makers.



The soldiers can also disobey and prevent wars.


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## gambit

Apollon said:


> Wrong, i have a functianal brain. If i get ordered to comitt a massacre or to rape i would denie such an order. Laws in civilized nations give soldiers the right to denie illegal orders


He said that only to give excuse to any Russian soldier who committed a war crime.

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## kingQamaR

Clutch said:


> You live in fantasy land.... Ask an Iraqi, Yemeni, Palestinian, Yemeni, Libyan, Kashmiri, Bosnian, Syrian, about this illusionary fantastically evolved 21st century humanity...
> 
> I say... We are still the savages we always were.
> 
> As Einstein said, "I do not know what [destructive] weapons WW III will be fought with, but WW IV will be fought with sticks and stones".



No, I was just making sense sense of Putin Mad war Its most obvious to the Russian army that Ukraine does not want them there so they know what theyre doing is wrong on every level, war crimes aplenty

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## Dalit

Clutch said:


> You live in fantasy land.... Ask an Iraqi, Yemeni, Palestinian, Yemeni, Libyan, Kashmiri, Bosnian, Syrian, about this illusionary fantastically evolved 21st century humanity...
> 
> I say... We are still the savages we always were.
> 
> As Einstein said, "I do not know what [destructive] weapons WW III will be fought with, but WW IV will be fought with sticks and stones".



An ordinary person from a non-Western country doesn't care. It is the harsh truth. Just like a person from a Western country won't care about wars taking place in non-Western countries.

What I have found baffling is the fact how Western countries pressure non-Western countries to be on their side. The Western countries have literally been pressuring and lobbying in many countries to take their side. Writing letters to governments and threatening countries with all kinds of repercussions.

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## gambit

Dalit said:


> What I have found baffling is the fact how Western countries pressure non-Western countries to be on their side. The Western countries have literally been pressuring and lobbying in many countries to take their side.


You mean the reverse *NEVER* happened?


----------



## Dalit

gambit said:


> You mean the reverse *NEVER* happened?



I doubt that any non-Western country has ever written letters to Western governments to take their side. Worse, I have never seen a non-Western government topple a Western government because they didn't side with their war narrative. This has happened and blatantly.


----------



## Wergeland

gambit said:


> Yes. Russia learned the hard way.
> 
> 
> When I was active duty, I met a CIA officer while we were waiting on our flights. I was returning to RAF Upper Heyford and he was going to the US Embassy in East Berlin. We had a couple hrs of excellent convos. He told me that if the CIA was as capable as the movies and novels made it out to be, the US would be running the world and everyone would know it.



The Russians learned a lesson but its the Ukrainians who remain devastated.

The CIA and US Politico-NGO complex are neither as competent as they are potrayed in Hollywood fictions, or as incompetent as they want us to believe. If they were useless they would have been disbanded long ago.

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## Apollon

Dalit said:


> I doubt that any non-Western country has ever written letters to Western governments to take their side. Worse, I have never seen a non-Western government topple a Western government because they didn't side with their war narrative. This has happened and blatantly.



Are you kidding me? Morocco for example constantly tries to get Europe on its side regarding west sahara



Wergeland said:


> The Russians learned a lesson but its the Ukrainians who are devastated.
> 
> The CIA and US Politico-NGO complex are neither as competent as they are potrayed in Hollywood fictions, or as incompetent as they want US to believe. If they were useless they would have been disbanded long ago.



Ukraine fights for their freedom after hundreds if years russian opression. Was there ever a costless war for freedom?


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## Dalit

Apollon said:


> Are you kidding me? Morocco for example constantly tries to get Europe on its side regarding west sahara



Did Morocco initiate regime change in any Western country who didn't side with its narrative? Did Morocco threaten any Western country with sanctions etc.?


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## gambit

Dalit said:


> I doubt that any non-Western country has ever written letters to Western governments to take their side. Worse, I have never seen a non-Western government topple a Western government because they didn't side with their war narrative. This has happened and blatantly.


Nah...The USSR just ran the tanks over.


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## Dalit

gambit said:


> Nah...The USSR just ran the tanks over.



The USSR/Russia is also part of the Western world.

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## Apollon

Dalit said:


> Did Morocco initiate regime change in any Western country who didn't side with its narrative? Did Morocco threaten any Western country with sanctions etc.?



Yes it did. It banned flights of countries not siding with it, imposed sanctions ect. 


China also constantly tries same. Being to weak to change a western government doesnt mean they have no tried


----------



## Dalit

Apollon said:


> Yes it did. It banned flights of countries not siding with it, imposed sanctions ect.
> 
> 
> China also constantly tries same. Being to weak to change a western government doesnt mean they have no tried



Banning flights is not the same as imposing sanctions or overthrowing legitimate governments. Morocco didn't do any such things. Western governments did and still do.


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## Apollon

Dalit said:


> Banning flights is not the same as imposing sanctions or overthrowing legitimate governments. Morocco didn't do any such things. Western governments did and still do.



Marocco is to weak for that. But tried to force western countries to step on their side.

Marocco also imposed sanctions.


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## ARMalik

PakFactor said:


> Can you share the BBQ video if not here on my profile page please --



The guy had a twitter account with a link to his Telegram account. Now his twitter account has been suspended as of yesterday. I am trying to find his Telegram channel but I can't seem to remember initials.

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## That Guy

Clutch said:


> The Ukranian are to serve the role of a meat grinder for MATO and the Western powers. This has to be long stretched out war campaign with the goal to degrade Russia militarily and economically..
> And of course to make $$$ for the war profiteers in the process


Your comment serves as an example of just how effective Russian propaganda has become. It lacks the complete geopolitical implications of the war, and simple argues a moral aspect which has no place in geopolitics.

First, Degrading Russia's military and economy has already been achieved.

Second, Ukraine serves as a buffer state for both Russia and Europe, and is important for both sides. However controls it would have a huge military advantage due to its geographical location as well as terrain. In the event of hostilities control of Ukraine would allow the Europeans to have a quick access to push towards the Russian A-A line, basically cutting off the Russians quickly, it would also serve as a buffer (as it's doing now) against Russian aggression towards the EU. For the Russians, it would guarantee their access to the blacksea, and give them a vital buffer to protect the Russian main land against European/NATO aggression.



Wergeland said:


> Germans are trying to o
> prevent a new great war ok European continent. I support them and the French in their approach.
> 
> Its the US and UK that wants this war to escalate. This is a boon for US weapon manufacturers. The war also keeps Russia and Western Europe bogged down, while creating a second iron curtain that prevents Chinese Belt and Roads route via Russia-Eastern Europe.
> 
> Ukrainian leadership is a US installed puppet regime and dosent represent its people. Ukrainians are a splitted people but most of them want a good relationship with both their neighbor Russia and western Europe.


Oh of course, Ukraine should've just allowed Russia to annex Ukraine and kill its citizens that Russia deems to be undesirable, right? Yup, of course, how stupid of me.

If you actually believe this rhetoric, than we have nothing to talk about, because you're pouting blatant Russian propaganda.


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## That Guy

ARMalik said:


> Respectfully, I disagree. Please listen to respected *US General (retd) Douglas Mcgregor *for unbiased view. In the next few weeks we are going to see destruction of Ukrainian Military on the scale only seen in WW2.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516217003085901831


Ah yes, he's so well respected that you only just found out about him. Of course, let's believe one guy over the dozens of neutral sources that claim otherwise, because he confirms your bias.

Dude, if you're gonna fall for confirmation bias, at least make it believable. The Ukrainians are kicking Russia's ***, something even I didn't expect.

The Russians are losing, and even if they make some gains I'm donbass, those are gonna reverse quite quickly.

Just wait and watch, the Russians are exhausted and don't want to fight, while the Ukrainians keep getting fresh highly motivated volunteers.

It's only a matter of when the Russians back off, not if.

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## Corax

gambit said:


> Yes. Russia learned the hard way.
> 
> 
> When I was active duty, I met a CIA officer while we were waiting on our flights. I was returning to RAF Upper Heyford and he was going to the US Embassy in East Berlin. We had a couple hrs of excellent convos. He told me that if the CIA was as capable as the movies and novels made it out to be, the US would be running the world and everyone would know it.



The US does run the world...it's just that not many know it.


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## ARMalik

That Guy said:


> Ah yes, he's so well respected that you only just found out about him. Of course, let's believe one guy over the dozens of neutral sources that claim otherwise, because he confirms your bias.
> 
> Dude, if you're gonna fall for confirmation bias, at least make it believable. The Ukrainians are kicking Russia's ***, something even I didn't expect.
> 
> The Russians are losing, and even if they make some gains I'm donbass, those are gonna reverse quite quickly.
> 
> Just wait and watch, the Russians are exhausted and don't want to fight, while the Ukrainians keep getting fresh highly motivated volunteers.
> 
> It's only a matter of when the Russians back off, not if.


Well you are here and I am here - Let's touch base again in the next few weeks when Ukrainian will have surrendered or not. Time will decided.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516217003085901831

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## That Guy

ARMalik said:


> Well you are here and I am here - Let's touch base again in the next few weeks when Ukrainian will have surrendered or not. Time will decided.


Let's talk on May 14th. That's nearly 4 weeks.

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## Bengal71

Wood said:


> View attachment 835622
> 
> 
> The Mujahedeen? 🤔



They are obviously not mujahideen. Those who are calling them mujahideen are degrading the mujahideen.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516345507878248455

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## That Guy

Bengal71 said:


> They are obviously not mujahideen. Those who are calling them mujahideen are degrading the mujahideen.


They're fighting for a nation that tells them to wear Christian iconography such as the st.george's ribbon, and have used them to oppress Muslims. So yeah, they're definitely not Mujahideen.

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## patero

gambit said:


> Yes. Russia learned the hard way.
> 
> 
> When I was active duty, I met a CIA officer while we were waiting on our flights. I was returning to RAF Upper Heyford and he was going to the US Embassy in East Berlin. We had a couple hrs of excellent convos. He told me that if the CIA was as capable as the movies and novels made it out to be, the US would be running the world and everyone would know it.


Funny that, a Russian bloke I worked with was an ex-KGB colonel. Sounds more impressive than the reality, he was little more than an administrator, and not a very good one at that. If he was representative of the standard of KGB officers, their reputation would have far exceeded their capability. From what I could discern from him the KGB was a lot like their military; staffers were inefficient, corrupt, completely lacking initiative, petty minded and overwhelmingly incompetent.


----------



## thetutle

ARMalik said:


> Respectfully, I disagree. Please listen to respected *US General (retd) Douglas Mcgregor *for unbiased view. In the next few weeks we are going to see destruction of Ukrainian Military on the scale only seen in WW2.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516217003085901831


He's a colonel. He was wrong so far.


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## ARMalik




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## thetutle

ARMalik said:


>


Yes, this aged badly. Putin unstoppable. what a clueless woman. Putins hi-tech strategy in space and on earth. she should run a comedy show.

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## ARMalik

thetutle said:


> Yes, this aged badly. Putin unstoppable. what a clueless woman. Putins hi-tech strategy in space and on earth. she should run a comedy show.



Why are you upset?? Give it time and we will ALL see who the winner really is. God willing, we will all be here in good health and witness in real time all that will unfold. LET TIME DECIDE.

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## Clutch

That Guy said:


> Second, Ukraine serves as a buffer state for both Russia and Europe, and is important for both sides


Buffer = Meat grinder

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## CAPRICORN-88



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## CAPRICORN-88

Aiden Aslin is a mercenary from UK.
He took the 3rd option, walked out and surrendered to the Russian Forces.

The above is his story.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516389668782227463


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516365711874080771

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516405704256634880



Wagner mercenaries beating the dust.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

thetutle said:


> Yes, this aged badly. Putin unstoppable. what a clueless woman. Putins hi-tech strategy in space and on earth. she should run a comedy show.



Ok then people should listen to you then, and not experts. 



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516365711874080771




Rehashing old photos. That is pretty desperate.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516392457847586819

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516390572113674249

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## Vergennes

Ukrainian paratroopers destroyed a motorized infantry unit of the Russian Armed Forces from the city of Tomsk.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516395145909968900


----------



## Meengla

sammuel said:


> It is clear that that is now the goal of Russia is indeed a land bridge between Crimea and Russia. We can determine that by actions we see , taken on the ground,
> Some here have no shame , , by still using NATO , denazification , demilitarization excuses. When clearly it is about , taking chunks of Ukraine.
> Let us not forget the purpose of this " special operation "
> The purpose is to invade another country , conquer land , cause it suits you to carve you a land bridge .
> It is not like Russia is exactly building a peace bridge between nations here , is it ?
> Right or wrong , you tell me ?



I don't have a definite answer about Russia's motives and I don't want to pull something out of my hate to appear like some big expert; we are all learning here anyway in this forum. At first look, as you are saying, it does make sense to connect Crimea with Donbas and thus Russia and to provide water to Crimea. Grabbing the Ukrainian 'industrial heartland' which is heavily present in the Ukrainian eastern regions could be another motive for Russia. But I will also say that a simple commitment of neutrality as demanded by Russia in the days/weeks leading to this invasion would have robbed Russia of some of the justification for this invasion. Only NOW Ukraine is willing to offer that commitment after so much of Ukraine is destroyed and lives lost!? I tend to think that, while the 'denazification' justification is just BS, this war was preventable by making a neutrality commitment and by not expanding the NATO *until at least Putin left this world. He is probably the last man standing for Russia before it falls back to the likes of Yeltsins again*. As I have repeatedly said here: Time would have sorted this out and Russia, to the west of the Urals at least (minus the Muslim Caucasus areas) would have organically become part of Europe as they are destined to be.



ARMalik said:


> Respectfully, I disagree. Please listen to respected *US General (retd) Douglas Mcgregor *for unbiased view. In the next few weeks we are going to see destruction of Ukrainian Military on the scale only seen in WW2.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516217003085901831



Colonel Macgregor is a gem! He is careful in using his words and making his predictions. He knows the battle-field knowledge as if he has hooks inside both the Russian and the NATO sources and he does give the credit when due--like even to the war-mongering Biden and Rubio.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516349762391273480
Ukrainian pensioners are sent to the front-line in a civilian bus that has "rainbow" marks. This is pretty sad. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516391857248423938


----------



## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516349762391273480
> Ukrainian pensioners are sent to the front-line in a civilian bus that has "rainbow" marks. This is pretty sad.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516391857248423938


In a month it will be called the Donbas diversion. We will find out the never wanted Donbas either.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516389502218084352

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516411691633987591

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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> But I will also say that a simple commitment of neutrality as demanded by Russia in the days/weeks leading to this invasion would have robbed Russia of some of the justification for this invasion. Only NOW Ukraine is willing to offer that commitment after so much of Ukraine is destroyed and lives lost!? I tend to think that, while the 'denazification' justification is just BS, this war was preventable by making a neutrality commitment and by not expanding the NATO *until at least Putin left this world. He is probably the last man standing for Russia before it falls back to the likes of Yeltsins again*.


Ukraine makes a declaration of neutrality and suddenly Putin allows Russians to be oppressed and Russian language remains banned in Ukraine (of course its not banned), and Putin decides he does not want all that extra land and waterfront real estate. Yeah right. 

There was nothing going to stop him taking parts of Ukraine and soon you will see he will turn his attention to Kazakstan and Azerbaijan. And whose side will you be on then?


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516358688944136192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516357328882311168






MoD Russia, [4/19/2022 9:03 AM]
⚡️Over the past day, a number of publications have been recorded in the Ukrainian media, in which official representatives of Kiev claim that a large number of civilians are allegedly on Azovstal. We are sure that this is just another information scam created solely to save the nationalists.

❗️We appeal to the representatives of the Kiev authorities: "if someone from the civilian population is on Azovstal, we demand to take all measures for their release and exit through the created humanitarian corridors." At the same time, the Russian leadership guarantees the safe evacuation of all, without exception, civilians and their movement as part of humanitarian convoys in any direction they choose.

❗️At the same time, we declare that the forcible detention of civilians as a "human shield" in accordance with the norms of international humanitarian law is terrorism, and the officials of the Kiev authorities and the direct perpetrators of this inhumane action on Azovstal are war criminals and terrorists.

Colonel General Mikhail Mizintsev, Head of the Russian Federation Joint Coordination Headquarters for Humanitarian Response - Head of the National Centre for State Defence Control of the Russian Federation

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine 
@mod_russia_en


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## Meengla

thetutle said:


> Ukraine makes a declaration of neutrality and suddenly Putin allows Russians to be oppressed and Russian language remains banned in Ukraine (of course its not banned), and Putin decides he does not want all that extra land and waterfront real estate. Yeah right.
> 
> There was nothing going to stop him taking parts of Ukraine and soon you will see he will turn his attention to Kazakstan and Azerbaijan. And whose side will you be on then?



Perhaps Putin would go after Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan but I REALLY doubt it. Ukraine has a special place in Russian hearts.
You give too much credit to Russia's might and border on being paranoid about Russia's desire to reconquest the lost parts of the Soviet Union. 
How about we would go from the simple demands of neutrality and see what happens then. But that is being offered by Ukraine NOW?? 

This has been your recurring theme here: Hyping up the Russian threat. While my position has been that time would have sorted this out, especially after Putin. But the Anglos wanted the war and they wanted it now. And they got it.


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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516418900321316867



Russians beating the dust in eastern Ukraine.


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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> Perhaps Putin would go after Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan but I REALLY doubt it. Ukraine has a special place in Russian hearts.


If Kazakstan and Azerbaijan didnt have a special place in Russian heart, why were they conquered in the first place? Why did they become a part of Russia? 


Meengla said:


> You give too much credit to Russia's might and border on being paranoid about Russia's desire to reconquest the lost parts of the Soviet Union.


I dont think russia is mighty, but they are mighty enough to demolish urkiane and take Kazakstan and Azerbaijan. No one will help those countries. They will be totally alone unlike Ukraine. Simply because of geography. 


Meengla said:


> How about we would go from the simple demands of neutrality and see what happens then. But that is being offered by Ukraine NOW??


That is well and truly over. There will be no more neutrality. If Ukraine survives and it probably will, it will be an enemy of Russia for a very very long time. 


Meengla said:


> This has been your recurring theme here: Hyping up the Russian threat. While my position has been that time would have sorted this out, especially after Putin. But the Anglos wanted the war and they wanted it now. And they got it.


Anglos didnt nave anyone. It was russia that started the war.


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## nang2

thetutle said:


> Anglos didnt nave anyone. It was russia that started the war.


The war started in 2014, not in 2022.

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## Meengla

thetutle said:


> Anglos didnt nave anyone. It was russia that started the war.



If the Soviet missiles were prevented from being deployed in a SOVEREIGN Cuba when the chances of an all-out war between the USSR and USA were low because of the nuclear weapons then why were the Soviets were prevented from that?? You see: Moving closer and closer to your adversaries give certain advantages despite the nuclear M.A.D and NATO, by expanding constantly to the Russian borders, were gaining such advantages and provoking the Russians over the last 2-3 decades. 

Yes, it is the Anglos who are the main driver of this war. Other countries of western Europe have only reluctantly joined yet another war for the Anglos. As Col. Macgregor says, the Anglos would go back to their island nations when the $hit hit the fan in Europe.

Anyway, I have said enough about my understanding of the war. You may hold your position repeating the same and I don't see any reason to change my position as of now. I am not into endless banters in this forum. But you may carry on with the fantastic ideas that you have been saying here for weeks.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Kreminna in Donbass has just fallen to the Russian.

*Meanwhile the Solomon Islands has just signed the security pact with China. *

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## nang2

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Kreminna in Donbass has just fallen to the Russian.
> 
> *Meanwhile the Solomon Islands has just signed the security pact with China. *


The first part is an old news, a couple of days old. The second part is new.


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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> If the Soviet missiles were prevented from being deployed in a SOVEREIGN Cuba when the chances of an all-out war between the USSR and USA were low because of the nuclear weapons then why were the Soviets were prevented from that??


JFK overstepped the line and he paid the price in the end.


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## mmr

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Kreminna in Donbass has just fallen to the Russian.
> 
> *Meanwhile the Solomon Islands has just signed the security pact with China. *




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514883114145030145

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## Piotr

Western chauvinists care very much about life of thugs from Azov Batalion. They don't care about life of tens of milions of victims of Western imperialism and terrorism.

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## Vergennes

It's funny though we don't see much Guerassimov and Shoigu around....


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## Georg

Piotr said:


> View attachment 835831
> 
> 
> Western chauvinists care very much about life of thugs from Azov Batalion. They don't care about life of tens of milions of victims of Western imperialism and terrorism.


Funny Part of all the named Nation Syria, Afghanistan and the not named crimera, Georgia, north Iran, Tscheschenia 1+2, Moldavia are attacked by russian orc chauvinists... no one complained about them here too... you and your shit world of doubble standarts.... a other bad does not make a bad rigth... get over it


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516447353527582725

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516442332018745355

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516452687956611072


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516444495788883972

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## jamal18

Patrick Lancaster, Mariupol now. Notice how the Azov's murder civilians.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> It's funny though we don't see much Guerassimov and Shoigu around....



This is in the Russian Ministry of Defense's English Telegram Channel today:







Opening speech of the Russian Defence Minister at the Board Session of the Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation 

Main theses⬇️

🔹The Russian Federation remains a reliable guarantor of the security of its citizens. 

🔹The events of recent months clearly demonstrate how important it is for Russia to continue improving the Armed Forces. 

🔹The Russian Army fulfills the tasks set by the Supreme Commander-in-Chief during a special military operation. The plan for the liberation of the Donetsk and Lugansk people's republics is being consistently implemented, and measures are being taken to establish peaceful life. 

🔹Russian servicemen participating in the operation show courage and heroism in the performance of military duty. 

🔹The United States and controlled Western countries are doing everything to prolong the special military operation as much as possible. 

🔹The actions of our troops and the quality of the weapons used once again show the correctness of the priorities defined by the military and political leadership of the country for the development of the Russian Armed Forces. 

🔹The consistent implementation of the Ministry of Defence's action plan is aimed at further development of the army and navy and providing them with advanced military equipment. The introduction of new methods of warfare will make it possible to better adapt troops to modern conditions of armed confrontation. 

🔹Much attention is paid to health issues and the implementation of social guarantees. We continue to provide military personnel of the district and their families with service and permanent housing. For the current year, 758 people have already moved into service apartments, and 849 servicemen have been provided with permanent housing, including under the military mortgage program. 

🔹The Ministry of Defence is constantly monitoring the military security of Russia's Arctic zone. The Northern Fleet solves its tasks in the face of a sharp aggravation of the military-political situation in Europe, increased tension and growing threats. 

🔹Traditionally, an important area of work in the Northern Fleet is scientific and research activities. Last year, together with the Russian Geographical Society, the expedition "Remember the War" was organized. Such a large-scale search activity was not carried out either in Soviet times or after. 

🔹The systematic re-equipment and enhancement of the capabilities of the signals troops continues. Over the past five years, more than 20 new communication facilities and complexes have been created, over 110 thousand units of modern communication equipment have been delivered, as a result, their share has increased to 72%. To maintain the orbital communications group, the second upgraded Meridian-M communications satellite was launched in March this year. 

🔹The development of the communication system of the Armed Forces follows the path of using advanced telecommunications technologies, including the introduction of artificial intelligence elements. Their use has already made it possible to reduce the time of bringing target designation to complexes of high-precision long-range weapons, such as Kalibr and Kinzhal tenfold.

📑 Full text

(https://****/mod_russia_en/967)#MoD #Russia 
@mod_russia_en

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516451715796582403

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## Bleek

Dalit said:


> An ordinary person from a non-Western country doesn't care. It is the harsh truth. Just like a person from a Western country won't care about wars taking place in non-Western countries.
> 
> What I have found baffling is the fact how Western countries pressure non-Western countries to be on their side. The Western countries have literally been pressuring and lobbying in many countries to take their side. Writing letters to governments and threatening countries with all kinds of repercussions.


Pressuring and lobbying is an understatement

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## Hassan Al-Somal

12 Ukrainian soldiers with NAZI tattoos captured. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516456314830008321

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## Elvin

I think the Ukrainians have thousands of Howitzers in stockpiles from Soviet Times, what they actual need is long range missile artillery, so I don't know why the US is sending howitzers, but every little bit helps.


----------



## Viet

Ukraine army launches multiple counteroffensive against the Russian positions at Mykolajiw, Charkiw.

Go Ukraine go!















Experten zweifeln an russischem Vorstoß: Die Gegenangriffe zeigen, worauf es für die Ukraine ankommt


Die ukrainische Armee greift verstärkt russische Einheiten im Osten des Landes an. Die Taktik dahinter zeugt offenbar von umfassendem Verständnis der Lage.




amp.tagesspiegel.de

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## BHAN85

Apollon said:


> Russia is poor and offers only brutalism and poverty. Thats the thing, Ukraine under Russia was always opressed, poor and without any hope to develop. Thats why they fight and why its so important for them.


How much important is development when you are dead.

I think it's better be poor and alive.

Ukraine war is only good for Kiev corrupt elite who take bribes from the West.

Ukraine war is bad for 99,99% of Ukrainian people, but they are idiots and are brainwashed by propaganda.
War destruction of economy will last decades, it could be avoided with a surrender, but Kiev common people has no brain and Kiev corrupt elite has no moral.

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## pak1234

Interesting


----------



## BHAN85

gambit said:


> This is interesting. We can use this argument to take over Mexico and Cuba, then maybe even Venezuela.


It was used under Cuban missile crisis in 1962.

But today Russia has no power to persuade other countries to follow them.

The biggest power of USA today is not their military power, the biggest power of USA and the West is that they have and manufacture all the luxuries things that all the ruling elites of this world want.

That's real power, the real capability to change the willing of people with power in any country of this world.

Ukraine kiev corrupt elite is under American spell of corruption.


----------



## zartosht

things are looking really bad for the ukies holding the donbass line.

a massive concentration of ukie army is about to get encircled while their cheerleaders yell out from twittter and CNN that they are winning.







Mariupol is almost captured. And tens of thousands of Russian troops will be freed to attack the rural flanks.

"ukraine" (nato) has 2 choices now:

a mass retreat that will completely demoralize the ukies, and expose the empire of lies.


Or pretend nothings happening, Continue screaming the ukies are winning, and when the soldiers are trapped and facing imminent anahilation, encourage them to fight to the death for their anglo masters...

my guess is they will choose the second option.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

▫️The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine.

💥As a result of the strike, high-precision air-based missiles hit 2 strong points near Kalinovo-Popasnoe and 6 areas of enemy's manpower and military equipment concentration near Mirnoe, Slovyansk and Popasnoe.

▫️Up to 180 Ukrainian nationalists and 15 armoured vehicles were destroyed.

▫️1 Buk-M1 anti-aircraft missile launcher was also destroyed near Barvenkovo.

✈️💥Operational-tactical aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces hit 31 military assets of Ukraine. Among them: 2 command posts and 28 areas of Ukrainian manpower and military equipment concentration near Razdolnoe and Novogrodovka, as well as 1 ammunition depot for multiple rocket launchers near Privol'e.

💥Russian air defence means shot down 3 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles in the air over Chernobaevka, Zaliznoe and Pokrovskoe.

💥During the day, missile troops hit 2 command posts of Ukrainian units, 1 ammunition depot, 1 artillery battery, as well as 1 area of Ukrainian military equipment concentration.

📊In total, 140 aircraft, 490 unmanned aerial vehicles, 253 anti-aircraft missile systems, 2,367 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 256 multiple launch rocket systems, 1,021 field artillery and mortars, as well as 2,225 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing
@mod_russia_en


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

kenyannoobie said:


> Shlomo, your chutzpah will overwhelm your greatly exaggerated intellect! This is the long standing MO of you Chosenites.
> 
> _"SIGHHHH,guys we can't keep doing this every time! Check the dates of mass murders and correlate with Jewish and Satanic holidays. Your Peshawar army school,Garissa uni, Cave of the Patriarchs,Columbine and Montreal Ecole Polytechnique massacres among many other mass death events strangely sync with these dates."
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/brea...unman-goes-on-rampage-in-canada.662320/page-3
> 
> "And Paris attacks , Hawaii missile alert 2018 (that was very real), 2016 Brussels airport bombing, Gulf oil tanker false flag same week of Jewish holiday was to usher in WW4 on a specific date,etc, etc."_
> The Beirut micro nuke happened on a very significant date too.
> Here's judicially lynched Gen William Keitel after his Nuremberg execution. I can't post the pic directly but if he was hanged why is he bleeding?
> His whole body passed through the trapdoor but he somehow hit his head: REALLY!?
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Keitel
> 
> Should I post the story of Simon of Trent ? Or Ariel Toaff who in 2007 said historical claims of Jewish use of goyim blood in your rituals were actually TRUE?




Very informative!!

The keyword here is "Chosenites"!! ROFL LMAO


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516468297516326912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516471674333499399

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## mmr

zartosht said:


> things are looking really bad for the ukies holding the donbass line.
> 
> a massive concentration of ukie army is about to get encircled while their cheerleaders yell out from twittter and CNN that they are winning.
> 
> View attachment 835882
> 
> 
> Mariupol is almost captured. And tens of thousands of Russian troops will be freed to attack the rural flanks.
> 
> "ukraine" (nato) has 2 choices now:
> 
> a mass retreat that will completely demoralize the ukies, and expose the empire of lies.
> 
> 
> Or pretend nothings happening, Continue screaming the ukies are winning, and when the soldiers are trapped and facing imminent anahilation, encourage them to fight to the death for their anglo masters...
> 
> my guess is they will choose the second option.


yawn lol


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

That Guy said:


> I give it 2 weeks, maybe 3 before Ukraine takes back Kherson.
> 
> The Russians are losing this war, and they're losing badly.


This post is a falsifiable prediction. 3 weeks is May 10. What happens if you're wrong?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516433417453420548

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Destroyed Ukrainian equipment 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516461058298421259


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516368773128900608

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516366325974659080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516345075609096193


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516456233431183367

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516461632083443724

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516438091841609733


Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516456233431183367



Yeah, if wishes were horses, beggars would ride them.....



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516436442557435906


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516483508289609728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516483378119417862


Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516456233431183367





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516481757377601537

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516481728285929473

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516392457847586819


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516412956828913677


----------



## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516461632083443724
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516438091841609733
> 
> 
> Yeah, if wishes were horses, beggars would ride them.....
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516436442557435906



If you think I give a sh/t about what Russian sources say. 

The event of the Moskva should enlighten you but seems not. 

"Ship wasn't hit but a fire damaged it,then explosions happened,then fire was estinguished,ship was towed to the port.... well finally ship sank after heavy storm" when it was proved they were wrong and where there were clearly two holes on the hulls....  "the crew was saved" but hundreds of Russian families still to this day don't know what happened to their family members. 

Russians are proven liars and posting your shitty tweets won't change that truth.

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## Dalit

Let me take a moment to thank @Hassan Al-Somal and @The SC. Taking out so much time to share the narrative from the other side.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516478806051196936


Vergennes said:


> If you think I give a sh/t about what Russian sources say.
> 
> The event of the Moskva should enlighten you but seems not.
> 
> "Ship wasn't hit but a fire damaged it,then explosions happened,then fire was estinguished,ship was towed to the port.... well finally ship sank after heavy storm" when it was proved they were wrong and where there were clearly two holes on the hulls....  "the crew was saved" but hundreds of Russian families still to this day don't know what happened to their family members.
> 
> Russians are proven liars and posting your shitty tweets won't change that truth.



A whole city - Mariupol - is captured by the Russians and you're running with a lucky shot that hit an aging patrol boat. Just throwing smiles won't make a difference. Russians are liberating the whole Donbass!!

Now this 👇 Ukrainian soldiers are taking weapons and ammunition to their homes. That is dangerous. Oh wait, may be because they want to sell them.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516469823517204485


Dalit said:


> Let me take a moment to thank @Hassan Al-Somal and @The SC. Taking out so much time to share the narrative from the other side.




Thanks bro!


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516487063914360838

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516475814732349444


----------



## mmr

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516433417453420548


i thought he died from heart attack...i mean ahem poison attack


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516447341175209988

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516419382368681984

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516458745051635713

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## mmr

Vergennes said:


> If you think I give a sh/t about what Russian sources say.
> 
> The event of the Moskva should enlighten you but seems not.
> 
> "Ship wasn't hit but a fire damaged it,then explosions happened,then fire was estinguished,ship was towed to the port.... well finally ship sank after heavy storm" when it was proved they were wrong and where there were clearly two holes on the hulls....  "the crew was saved" but hundreds of Russian families still to this day don't know what happened to their family members.
> 
> Russians are proven liars and posting your shitty tweets won't change that truth.


narrative changes every 15 min from Russian side lol

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516478806051196936
> 
> 
> A whole city - Mariupol - is captured by the Russians and you're running with a lucky shot that hit an aging patrol boat. Just throwing smiles won't make a difference. Russians are liberating the whole Donbass!!



"An aging patrol boat",one of the major surface vessel of the Russian navy,black sea fleet's flagship,a heavily modernized ship with hundreds of sailors most probably missing,even yourself consider russians as just cannon fodder and numbers and not humans. 



mmr said:


> narrative changes every 15 min from Russian side lol



Russians are just ridiculing themselves in front of the world.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516143814821433344


----------



## nang2

Vergennes said:


> If you think I give a sh/t about what Russian sources say.
> 
> The event of the Moskva should enlighten you but seems not.
> 
> "Ship wasn't hit but a fire damaged it,then explosions happened,then fire was estinguished,ship was towed to the port.... well finally ship sank after heavy storm" when it was proved they were wrong and where there were clearly two holes on the hulls....  "the crew was saved" but hundreds of Russian families still to this day don't know what happened to their family members.
> 
> Russians are proven liars and posting your shitty tweets won't change that truth.


Every side lies about the setbacks they have. It is childish to expect the parties in war act like saints. Even Sun-Tzu said all warfare is based on the deception.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516445107419066379


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516441120603004933

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516443187048595469


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516422278187212802

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516419083310407685

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## nang2

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516441120603004933
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516443187048595469


Victory Banner raised in Berlin on 1 May, 1945.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516437186719236106


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> "An aging patrol boat",one of the major surface vessel of the Russian navy,black sea fleet's flagship,a heavily modernized ship with hundreds of sailors most probably missing,even yourself consider russians as just cannon fodder and numbers and not humans.
> 
> 
> 
> Russians are just ridiculing themselves in front of the world.



I don't see them ridiculing themselves. I see them taking towns and cities and 1000s of prisoners!

You can see below your favored place: The AzovStal. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516416538303213579

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516475432203599882

Chechen mujahideen have stormed the Azovstal, seized tanks and other equipment, and secured the facility. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516417213523271687

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516425163868454914


----------



## Vergennes



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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516489216288509958


Vergennes said:


> View attachment 835900



Bed-time stories.......These psyops aren't working.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516498196293472262


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516448428611584002

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## nang2

Vergennes said:


> View attachment 835900


You see. It never tells you the setbacks that Ukrainians have suffered. Does that mean Ukrainians didn't suffer setbacks? Would it be lying if someone says they did?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516495738045440012

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516488985362714626


----------



## Vergennes

Kadyrov tiktok clowns strike again


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516499031131840520

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516499382669123587

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516465774948495361


----------



## F-22Raptor

The Biden administration is preparing to announce another substantial military aid package for Ukrainethis week, five U.S officials tell NBC News. Three officials said the package is expected to be similar in size to the $800 million one the administration announced last week.

Two officials said the package is expected to include more artillery and tens of thousands more artillery rounds, which will likely be critical to the fighting in Ukraine’s eastern Donbas region.









Biden admin preparing to announce another Ukraine military aid package


Two officials said the package is expected to include more artillery and tens of thousands more artillery rounds, critical to action in Ukraine’s eastern Donbas region.




www.nbcnews.com

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516384679234093058

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516499382669123587



ex-NATO Mig29s / Su27s? Or spare parts to get older planes up in the air that Ukraine already has but never maintained ?

Ukraine has lots of older Mig29/Su25/Su27s lying around as they never maintained them(big mistake or what!)


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516396691217428480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516247218696638468


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516499450465820682

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516351328217411585

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516411442106609664


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516328010198171653
Artillery of the Ukrainian armed forces on the positions of the Russians

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516344746502930438

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516383452261613577

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516330077394452481

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## The SC

Spoiler: Graphic



https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1516138550399361024


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Kadyrov tiktok clowns strike again
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516499031131840520




But they're taking down your fellow Azov and then collect their guns as trophies. 



Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516510637979062281


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> The Biden administration is preparing to announce another substantial military aid package for Ukrainethis week, five U.S officials tell NBC News. Three officials said the package is expected to be similar in size to the $800 million one the administration announced last week.
> 
> Two officials said the package is expected to include more artillery and tens of thousands more artillery rounds, which will likely be critical to the fighting in Ukraine’s eastern Donbas region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biden admin preparing to announce another Ukraine military aid package
> 
> 
> Two officials said the package is expected to include more artillery and tens of thousands more artillery rounds, critical to action in Ukraine’s eastern Donbas region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcnews.com




Everyday announcing a new military aid means the West is panicking to the progress of the Russian army and their affiliate pro-Russian forces. Therefore, they're sending these weapons that are either taken down or seized by the Russian forces.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516483508289609728


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516526374747578372


----------



## Wood

Seems like the Ukranian has logistical inefficiencies of its own. This US trainer from on field in Kyiv says that US equipment and medical supplies are stuck in Lviv and not taken to front lines on the east where they are needed. As a result, the casualties in the Ukrainian side is higher than it needs to be


----------



## jamal18

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Everyday announcing a new military aid means the West is panicking to the progress of the Russian army and their affiliate pro-Russian forces. Therefore, they're sending these weapons that are either taken down or seized by the Russian forces.


As the main forces in the east are degraded, newer less experienced troops will have to be trained to use these weapons. 

It's not going to end well.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516528518426996737

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516493605866778627

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516494768167137282

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## Primus

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516528518426996737


You have just uploaded that exact same tweet 8 minutes ago.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516276201660338177
​EU To Impose Full Embargo On Russian Oil Next Week, Will Send Price Above $185 According To JPMorgan​
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/full-embargo-russian-oil-would-send-brent-185bbl-jpmorgan


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516522627933917204


Huffal said:


> You have just uploaded that exact same tweet 8 minutes ago.



I deleted the second one


----------



## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516499450465820682



Basically the two countries not doing their part to provide military equipment is France and Germany ….. proves the founding values of the EU are crap at the core… Ukraine needs weapons from these two, not more talking..

I am so glad the UK is out of the EU… we can make our own decisions for ourselves…

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516487368165019660

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516487063914360838

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516484500288593922

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516448610501677057

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516516749180641283


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516500283865669643

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516466728368324621

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516436442557435906


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

MoD Russia, [4/19/2022 4:59 PM]
🗓 Top News Today

💬 The Russian Army fulfills the tasks set by the Supreme Commander-in-Chief during the special military operation (https://****/mod_russia_en/971), stated Sergei Shoigu. The plan for the liberation of the Donetsk and Lugansk people's republics is being consistently implemented, and measures are being taken to establish peaceful life. 

◽️ Separate data (https://****/mod_russia_en/965) on the losses of the national guard of Ukraine (NGU) was published, obtained from original Ukrainian documents. Information about significant losses among the military personnel of the NGU 1st operational brigade of Petro Doroshenko (military unit 3027) was disclosed (by March 29, 2022).

❗️ Security Service of Ukraine (SSU) is preparing another provocation (https://****/mod_russia_en/962) to accuse the servicemen of the Russian Federation of so-called war crimes with the mass destruction of civilians in Odessa region. To this end, in the near future it is planned to dress one of the SSU units in the uniform of Russian servicemen and make a demonstrative shooting of local residents. 

💥 Operational-tactical aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces (https://****/mod_russia_en/958) hit 60 military assets of Ukraine. 2 depots of Tochka-U missile warheads were destroyed near Chervonaya Polyana and Balakleya. 3 command posts of Ukrainian troops as well as 53 areas of enemy's manpower and military equipment concentration were also hit.

💥 Missile troops and artillery (https://****/mod_russia_en/958) hit 1,260 military assets. Destroyed: 25 command posts of Ukrainian units near Nikolaev, Kirovsk; 2 missile and artillery weapons depots near Voskresensk and Nikolaev; 2 Buk-M1 anti-aircraft missile launchers near Gulyai Pole and Nikolaevka II, as well as 1,214 enemy manpower concentrations.

💥 High-precision air-based missiles (https://****/mod_russia_en/977) hit 2 strong points near Kalinovo-Popasnoe and 6 areas of enemy's manpower and military equipment concentration near Mirnoe, Slovyansk and Popasnoe. Up to 180 Ukrainian nationalists and 15 armoured vehicles were destroyed. 1 Buk-M1 anti-aircraft missile launcher was also destroyed near Barvenkovo.

◽️ The Russian Armed Forces offered the militants of nationalist battalions and foreign mercenaries from 12:00 (Moscow time) on April 19, 2022 to cease any hostilities and lay down their arms (https://****/mod_russia_en/963). All who lay down their weapons are guaranteed the preservation of life.

❗️ The Russian Armed Forces, once again offer the nationalist battalion fighters and foreign mercenaries to stop fighting (https://****/mod_russia_en/980) and lay down their weapons from 14:00 (Moscow time) on April 20 2022.

◾️ The Ukrainian Armed Forces shelled (https://****/mod_russia_en/975) Pologi settlement, Zaporozhya Region, with cluster munitions.

📹 Footage of the Russian Armed Forces carrying out their tasks in the course of the special military operation continues to be published: launches of Iskander operational-tactical missile system (https://****/mod_russia_en/966) on Ukrainian military infrastructure, Su-34 fighter-bomber sorties (https://****/mod_russia_en/957) that destroyed Ukrainian military facilities.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine
@mod_russia_en


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516519658773524480


----------



## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> But they're taking down your fellow Azov and then collect their guns as trophies.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516510637979062281




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516529776550363146
Ukrainian soldiers who die on the battlefield will be remembered not only in Ukraine but also in Europe and much more as heroes who stood for their motherland for decades to come but who will remember russian soldiers ? They are truly cannon fodder,not even their comrades or their families care about them,they died for pointless reasons,nobody cares about them.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516429002336096263

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516424969399455760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516289699886907394
*CNN, citing Biden administration sources: Washington is preparing another $800 million arms aid package for Ukraine..*


----------



## SalarHaqq

Mohammad Marandi, Alastair Crooke, Max Blumenthal, Scott Ritter - a real dream team at this roundtable organized by the University of Tehran! Watch and enjoy.


----------



## mmr

Biden 'to announce another $800m military aid package'​*Joe Biden will announce another military aid package for Ukraine roughly the same size as the $800m one the US president announced last week, multiple sources told Reuters.*

Last week, the White House said it would send Ukraine $800m in aid, including artillery systems, artillery rounds, armored personnel carriers and unmanned coastal defense boats. The details of the latest package, first reported by NBC News, are still being worked out, a US official said.

This week’s aid package would bring the total US military aid to Ukraine since Russia’s invasion to more than $3bn.

*Boris Johnson reiterated a “critical need” for further military support for Ukraine in his earlier video call with Joe Biden and other world leaders.*

Downing Street’s account of the video call was broadly similar to the statement from the White House, which said the allies reaffirmed their commitment to support Ukraine as it faced a Russian onslaught in the east of the country.

Leaders on the call included France’s *Emmanuel Macron*, Germany’s *Olaf Scholz*, Canada’s *Justin Trudeau*, the Nato secretary-general, *Jens Stoltenberg*, and the European Commission leader, *Ursula von der Leyen*.

Johnson, the Downing Street readout said, gave them an update following his visit to Kyiv earlier this month.



> He underscored the critical need for further military support to Ukraine in the face of a major Russian offensive in the Donbas and ongoing attacks elsewhere.
> The leaders agreed to work together to find a long-term security solution so that Ukraine could never be attacked in this way again. They discussed the need to increase the pressure on Russia with more sanctions against Putin’s war machine, as well as further diplomatic isolation.
> The prime minister welcomed President Biden’s leadership, and the allies agreed to work closely together in the weeks and months to come.


Meanwhile, a new British military analysis, Reuters reports, indicates that Russia is continuing to ramp up its shelling and strikes on the Donbas line of control, with Ukrainians “repelling numerous attempted advances by Russian forces.

“Russia’s ability to progress continues to be impacted by the environmental, logistical and technical challenges that have beset them so far, combined with the resilience of the highly-motivated Ukrainian armed forces.”

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516489053037809669

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516489032120901641

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## mmr

Belgium plans to deliver more heavy weapons to Ukraine​Belgian Prime Minister Alexander De Croo said his country will work with other partners to deliver more heavy weapons to Ukraine. 

De Croo called Russia's offensive in the Donbas region an "absolute low" for Europe, saying sanctions on Russia could be tightened even further and would also certainly have an effect. "But this costs more time."

De Croo's remarks came during a joint conference with his Dutch counterpart Mark Rutte, who earlier made a similar announcement about weapon deliveries from the Netherlands.


----------



## SalarHaqq

Professor John Mearsheimer agrees: the global hegemony of liberal "democracy" is over!






Here the full conference titled: The False Promise of Liberal Hegemony.






John Mearsheimer and Ray McGovern, former CIA analyst on the war in Ukraine:

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## khansaheeb

BHAN85 said:


> How much important is development when you are dead.
> 
> I think it's better be poor and alive.
> 
> Ukraine war is only good for Kiev corrupt elite who take bribes from the West.
> 
> Ukraine war is bad for 99,99% of Ukrainian people, but they are idiots and are brainwashed by propaganda.
> War destruction of economy will last decades, it could be avoided with a surrender, but Kiev common people has no brain and Kiev corrupt elite has no moral.


Sad thing is after all the death and destruction they will still have to sit down at the table and negotiate peace, why couldn't they do that first?

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## Stryker1982

If Russia is not able to deliver a crushing blow in Donbass area, then are gonna be in a bit of a pickle.


----------



## mmr

Russia ‘preparing legal action’ to unfreeze $600bn foreign currency reserves


Elvira Nabiullina lawsuits aim to release gold and foreign currency frozen amid sanctions over Ukraine invasion




www.theguardian.com





Russia ‘preparing legal action’ to unfreeze $600bn foreign currency reserves​

good luck lmao


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516421996015403018


----------



## nang2

khansaheeb said:


> Sad thing is after all the death and destruction they will still have to sit down at the table and negotiate peace, why couldn't they do that first?


Ukraine and the west didn't want to talk.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516526527692906501

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516314568112459777


----------



## F-22Raptor

Stryker1982 said:


> If Russia is not able to deliver a crushing blow in Donbass area, then are gonna be in a bit of a pickle.




The problem for Russia is that their down to 75% of their pre staged combat power after only 2 months. The West will continue to supply Ukraine with advanced weapons and Ukraine still has in excess of 200K soldiers. Attrition is going to be a huge problem for the Russians.

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## The SC

The following list attempts to keep track of heavy military equipment delivered or pledged to Ukraine during the 2022 Russian of invasion of Ukraine. The entries below are sorted by armament category (with a flag denoting the country of delivery), and due to the confidential nature of some arms deliveries they can serve only as a lower bound to the total volume of weaponry shipped to Ukraine. MANPADS, ATGMs and commercial UAVs are not included in this list. This list will be updated as further military support is declared or uncovered.

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/04/answering-call-heavy-weaponry-supplied.html


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516308948160335872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516254921318109191


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516558663279951872

Ukraine has officially received additional fighter aircraft

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516565084721590276

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516514669426614278


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516559695397502981

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516558210353840128

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516560861464248324

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516527194201153538


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516535903925293059

The Next Gen Rifle and MG for the US Army.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## CAPRICORN-88

*Who is in charge of Ukraine today?*


----------



## srshkmr

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516535903925293059
> 
> The Next Gen Rifle and MG for the US Army.


Those looked sick in the videos put by SiG group on youtube. Looks like Russia-Ukraine conflict pushed the approval process


----------



## The SC

Spoiler: Graphic



https://twitter.com/tinso_ww/status/1516541541132775431


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## F-22Raptor

srshkmr said:


> Those looked sick in the videos put by SiG group on youtube. Looks like Russia-Ukraine conflict pushed the approval process



“Both weapons provide significant capability improvements in accuracy, range and overall lethality,” the Army said in its announcement. “They are lightweight, fire more lethal ammunition, mitigate recoil, provide improved barrel performance, and include integrated muzzle sound and flash reduction.”

In 2019, then-Army Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Milley hailed the new squad weapon as “a weapon that could defeat any body armor, any planned body armor that we know of in the future,” according to Army Times. “This is a weapon that can go out at ranges that are unknown today. There is a target acquisition system built into this thing that is unlike anything that exists today. This is a very sophisticated weapon.”









Sig Sauer nabs Army's Next Generation Squad Weapon contract - Breaking Defense


Army said the award comes after "rigorous" 27-month prototyping phase.




breakingdefense.com

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## CAPRICORN-88

Here is a clue to who are really in charge of Ukraine since 2014. So Nazism does not exists in Ukraine, I heard some of you saying. 
They are just Putin's propaganda.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516449523035512855


----------



## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516529164941156356

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516530963903307782


----------



## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> The problem for Russia is that their down to 75% of their pre staged combat power after only 2 months. The West will continue to supply Ukraine with advanced weapons and Ukraine still has in excess of 200K soldiers. Attrition is going to be a huge problem for the Russians.


Every one even holand and Belgium now start to sending heavy weapons

Russia will suck dry...too many countries now start to sending weapons to them

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516542396997283847


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

*What is the real reason, Russia invaded Ukraine?

A must watch video.





*


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516533388349513736


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

It is total madness.

Genocidical massacre of the Russian speaking population while the US, UK, EU and NATO simply closed their eyes, pretending nothing is happening there.


----------



## F-22Raptor

mmr said:


> Every one even holand and Belgium now start to sending heavy weapons
> 
> Russia will suck dry...too many countries now start to sending weapons to them




As the Institute for the Study of War said today, it could take a very long time for Russian forces to surround Ukrainian forces in the east. And IF they were, it would take a long time after that to destroy those forces. 

This could take many months , if not years, and Russian forces will be attrited significantly.

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## CAPRICORN-88

That is what politicians do to their people?


----------



## Oldman1

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *What is the real reason, Russia invaded Ukraine?
> 
> A must watch video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


We all know the real reason why Putin invaded Ukraine. He wants to conquer it.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516341841288957953

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Oldman1

F-22Raptor said:


> As the Institute for the Study of War said today, it could take a very long time for Russian forces to surround Ukrainian forces in the east. And IF they were, it would take a long time after that to destroy those forces.
> 
> This could take many months , if not years, and Russian forces will be attrited significantly.


Good luck trying to surround the Ukrainian forces like that. Why would you try to surround them when your flanks are exposed? They are having a hard time protecting those supply lines already and its closer to the Russian borders!


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

That is why many are saying that *Zalensky should be charged with treasons* for failing to attend the meeting on Feb 8, 2022 to commit to when he will implement the signed Minsk II agreement filed with United Nation. 

His intransigence due to his politics has now turned Ukraine into a broken, bankrupt and destroyed nation.

Can we blamed him? As we pointed out, nobody is really in charged in Ukraine as long as AZOV exists. 

Ironically the US, UK, EU and NATO are supporting Nazism and Facism while Israel declined. 

The US President Biden is a *failed head of state and a leader* as instead of convincing Ukrainians to commit to a signed agreement, he is more interested to counter Russia, US archrival.


----------



## Oldman1

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516341841288957953


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Russian operation in Ukraine has entered Phase 2 and we will see who will be the eventual loser.

No point speculating as IMO things are pretty predictable.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Oldman1 said:


> We all know the real reason why Putin invaded Ukraine. He wants to conquer it.


That is a narrow perspective and generally opinions expressed by the US MSM. 

If I am you, I will widen it. 

Which begs another question, who is really in charge in the US today?


----------



## Oldman1

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> That is a narrow perspective and generally opinions expressed by the US MSM.
> 
> If I am you, I will widen it.
> 
> Which begs another question, who is really in charge in the US today?


No its not a narrow perspective. Its pretty much what Putin wants. Doesn't matter who is in charge of the U.S. today. I would question who is in charge of the U.S. if they allow Russia to conquer Ukraine.


----------



## That Guy

FairAndUnbiased said:


> This post is a falsifiable prediction. 3 weeks is May 10. What happens if you're wrong?


Nothing, I'm a guy on the internet. Who cares if I'm wrong or right?

You make it seem as if I have some sort of political power.

Lol



Clutch said:


> Buffer = Meat grinder


🙄

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## CAPRICORN-88

Oldman1 said:


> No its not a narrow perspective. Its pretty much what Putin wants. Doesn't matter who is in charge of the U.S. today. I would question who is in charge of the U.S. if they allow Russia to conquer Ukraine.


I suggest you read this book.

_*Why Leaders Lie: The Truth About Lying in International Politics*_ is a 2011 book by the political scientist John Mearsheimer.

US folks have been lied to since the very beginning.

The truth Is: Outside of the US Mainland esp. in Asia we are all laughing as we all knew that they were lies. That is why US cannot rally supports among Asian population.


----------



## That Guy

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516341841288957953


Lmao, what a clown. 🤡🤡🤡

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## PakFactor

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> That is what politicians do to their people?



You know what they say the young die due to the grudges old people hold.

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## Oldman1

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> I suggest you read this book.
> 
> _*Why Leaders Lie: The Truth About Lying in International Politics*_ is a 2011 book by the political scientist John Mearsheimer.
> 
> US folks have been lied to since the very beginning.
> 
> The truth Is: Outside of the US Mainland esp. in Asia we are all laughing as we all knew that they were lies. That is why US cannot rally supports among Asian population.


Then I suggest you think about what Putin has said about his intentions. He says he won't invade, he invades. He says he won't occupy, he occupies. Heck now they are trying to impose a referendum where people vote whether they should be part of Russia or not while in the middle of a war. Won't work when the Ukrainians push them out.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

And the fatman from the previous US Administration has the audacity to boasts in front of his audience how they were trained to *lie, cheat and steal*. 

And mighty proud of it.


----------



## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> If you think I give a sh/t about what Russian sources say.
> 
> The event of the Moskva should enlighten you but seems not.


Reading any Russian source on the war is pointless, I only read the entertaining ones that attempt to explain away an obvious setback. like Moskva. 

The name of the biggest most famous Russian newspaper "Pravda" (truth) tells you all you need to know about the reliability if Russian sourced information.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Oldman1 said:


> Then I suggest you think about what Putin has said about his intentions. He says he won't invade, he invades. He says he won't occupy, he occupies. Heck now they are trying to impose a referendum where people vote whether they should be part of Russia or not while in the middle of a war. Won't work when the Ukrainians push them out.


Again many of his words were taken out of context as he spoke in Russian. The nuances in the translation was just an excuse.

I am not so gullible as the average sophiscated Americans.


----------



## The SC




----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Analysts are generally saying both sides lied but will generally ignored the uncorroborated Western sources. 

The Russian and Chinese sources are closer to the truth based on independent analysis. 

Russia said there are only 8,100 UKR and AVOZ in Mariupol and to me, it is plausible. 

Zalensky said Ukraine lost only 1,500 troops and we know it is a ...

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## thetutle

nang2 said:


> Every side lies about the setbacks they have. It is childish to expect the parties in war act like saints. Even Sun-Tzu said all warfare is based on the deception.


but not on self deception


----------



## Oldman1

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Again many of his words were taken out of context as he spoke in Russian. The nuances in the translation was just an excuse.
> 
> I am not so gullible as the average sophiscated Americans.


LOL! Definitely not taken out of context. He said what he says. From denazify to even Decommunization. 

Official translation of his speech from the official Russian government.


http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/67843



"It is not our plan to occupy the Ukrainian territory. We do not intend to impose anything on anyone by force. At the same time, we have been hearing an increasing number of statements coming from the West that there is no need any more to abide by the documents setting forth the outcomes of World War II, as signed by the totalitarian Soviet regime. How can we respond to that?"


"The purpose of this operation is to protect people who, for eight years now, have been facing humiliation and genocide perpetrated by the Kiev regime. To this end, we will seek to demilitarise and denazify Ukraine, as well as bring to trial those who perpetrated numerous bloody crimes against civilians, including against citizens of the Russian Federation."

Another speech days before the invasion.



https://tass.com/politics/1407587?utm_source=google.com&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=google.com&utm_referrer=google.com



MOSCOW, February 21. /TASS/. If Ukraine created by the Bolsheviks wants genuine de-communization, this will suit Russia, Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Monday.

*"Now grateful descendants have demolished monuments to Lenin in Ukraine. This is what they call de-communization. Do you want de-communization? Well, this quite suits us. But you must not stop halfway. We are ready to show you what genuine de-communization means for Ukraine," Putin said in his address to the nation over the situation in Ukraine’s southeast.*

The modern Ukraine was entirely created by Communist Russia, Russian President said. "The modern Ukraine was entirely and completely created by Russia, or rather, the Bolshevik, Communist Russia," the head of state said.

"This process started almost immediately after the 1917 Revolution; Lenin and his associates did it in a way, very brutal towards Russia itself - by separating, alienating parts of Russia’s own historic territories," Putin added.


According to Putin, "nobody asked millions of people about anything.".


----------



## The SC

thetutle said:


> I just hope they are being paid well for it. If they are doing it for free I feel sorry for them.


Feel sorry for yourself being so gullible and emotional in front of the truth.. .. go blame tweeter and the world media while you are at it.. or you expect everyone to be like you..that's very childish of you.. there are two parties to this war.. i have both Ukrainian and Russian friends and had them for a long time.. not one rational Ukrainians believe in that BS cheap propaganda.. just imagine that NATO headed by the US said officially they don't want to confront Russia face to face..

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## CAPRICORN-88

Oldman1 said:


> LOL! Definitely not taken out of context. He said what he says. From denazify to even Decommunization.
> 
> Official translation of his speech from the official Russian government.
> 
> 
> http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/67843
> 
> 
> 
> "It is not our plan to occupy the Ukrainian territory. We do not intend to impose anything on anyone by force. At the same time, we have been hearing an increasing number of statements coming from the West that there is no need any more to abide by the documents setting forth the outcomes of World War II, as signed by the totalitarian Soviet regime. How can we respond to that?"
> 
> 
> "The purpose of this operation is to protect people who, for eight years now, have been facing humiliation and genocide perpetrated by the Kiev regime. To this end, we will seek to demilitarise and denazify Ukraine, as well as bring to trial those who perpetrated numerous bloody crimes against civilians, including against citizens of the Russian Federation."
> 
> Another speech days before the invasion.
> 
> 
> 
> https://tass.com/politics/1407587?utm_source=google.com&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=google.com&utm_referrer=google.com
> 
> 
> 
> MOSCOW, February 21. /TASS/. If Ukraine created by the Bolsheviks wants genuine de-communization, this will suit Russia, Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Monday.
> 
> *"Now grateful descendants have demolished monuments to Lenin in Ukraine. This is what they call de-communization. Do you want de-communization? Well, this quite suits us. But you must not stop halfway. We are ready to show you what genuine de-communization means for Ukraine," Putin said in his address to the nation over the situation in Ukraine’s southeast.*
> 
> The modern Ukraine was entirely created by Communist Russia, Russian President said. "The modern Ukraine was entirely and completely created by Russia, or rather, the Bolshevik, Communist Russia," the head of state said.
> 
> "This process started almost immediately after the 1917 Revolution; Lenin and his associates did it in a way, very brutal towards Russia itself - by separating, alienating parts of Russia’s own historic territories," Putin added.
> 
> 
> According to Putin, "nobody asked millions of people about anything.".


Read it again. It makes senses.

That is what broken promises from US and NATO have brought them. The law of retaliation.

Don't complained as the US and allies are clearly in breach.

Treaties and agreements are useless, he pointed out which are true again today.

One US President will tear up signed agreement of the previous President and that violated international law.

I have no time to read it all today and merely did a quick cursory glances but will read it again later.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516502929242529804

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516484357749461005

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516584722532511745

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516584723459362821


----------



## thetutle

Wood said:


> Seems like the Ukranian has logistical inefficiencies of its own. This US trainer from on field in Kyiv says that US equipment and medical supplies are stuck in Lviv and not taken to front lines on the east where they are needed. As a result, the casualties in the Ukrainian side is higher than it needs to be


This is very concerning. Ukraine will lose if they dont fix this obviously.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516494768167137282


This guy is not a nazi, obviously.

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516573895717003269

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516563701876367367

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516486299825418247


----------



## The SC

thetutle said:


> This is very concerning. Ukraine will lose if they dont fix this obviously.
> 
> 
> This guy is not a nazi, obviously.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516599146836205571

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516490329767223303



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516603480617938946


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516008016734302211

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516021484807987206


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516606326272573446
Tucker should open a Russian bank account and get paid in rubles for this side gig on Russian TV

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512587671306219531

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516603497378385920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516444878405840901

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516445020450140167


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516409018163638272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516392949218689027

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516390221516095489

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516382596648914949

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516239091423055875

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## PakAlp

Map 19/04/2022





Plan to take East/South Ukraine, then link it to Moldova separatist region via land.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

thetutle said:


> I just hope they are being paid well for it. If they are doing it for free I feel sorry for them.



This guy is proving to be a troll. Unlike you who wags the tail for the Western media and their leaders, we use our common sense and where the facts lead us. Unlike you and many others who don't want the Russian side of the story to be heard, I would say tough luck. Truth will out you and many of the western media and politicians that you chearlead.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

Spoiler: Graphic



https://twitter.com/Nishtiblue/status/1516069819728244751




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516035409859563521

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Ukraine uses cluster bombs on its own territory to retake eastern town: New York Times​Virtually banned around the world, but 'they needed to use them to retake their country, no matter the cost'

Author of the article:
Shari Kulha
Publishing date:
Apr 19, 2022 •



A Ukrainian tank drives next to a destroyed Russian vehicle, marked with the "Z" symbol, in the village of Husarivka on April 14. PHOTO BY ALKIS KONSTANTINIDIS / REUTERS
Article content​Until the war, Husarivka was a village of about 1,100 people, located 100 kilometres southeast of Kharkiv and just several kilometres from the Russian front line near the eastern city of Izium.

Just two weeks after the war began and the town was occupied by Russian troops, hundreds of its residents fled, leaving just 400 to tend to the town and their neighbours’ farms.



The exodus began after a small neighbourhood was hit on March 6 or 7 by a cluster munition rocket that rained down 30 deadly “bomblets.” Russia has been accused of using these repeatedly in Ukraine, but the New York Timesposits that, in the case of Husarivka, it was Ukraine that fired on its own territory.
Based on evidence reviewed by the Times on a visit to the area, a 220-millimetre Uragan artillery rocket “is very likely to have been launched by the Ukrainian troops who were trying to retake the area,” the paper says. Using a cluster bomb “underscores their strategic calculation: This is what they needed to do to retake their country, no matter the cost.”

Nobody died in that hit, though at least two were killed as Ukrainian forces targeted the Russians over most of the month.



Cluster munitions are almost universally banned — more than 120 countries are signatories to the Convention on Cluster Munitions, which took effect in 2010, but the United States, Russia and Ukraine are not. It prohibits the use, production, transfer and stockpiling of such weapons, in order to “address the humanitarian consequences and unacceptable harm to civilians.”
So many nations decry the use of cluster bombs not only because they can cause immediate damage and death, and because 20 per cent of them do not detonate on impact, they create potential for further random danger to the innocent.

“It’s not surprising, but it’s definitely dismaying to hear that evidence has emerged indicating that Ukraine may have used cluster munitions in this current conflict,” said Mary Wareham, advocacy director of the arms division at Human Rights Watch, told the Times. “Cluster munitions are unacceptable weapons that are killing and maiming civilians across Ukraine.”



Uragan cluster munitions leave behind the rocket’s nose cone and its long skeletal metal frame that hold the bomblets. The rockets’ warheads — carrying 30 anti-personnel bomblets apiece — would have separated in flight from their solid rocket motors, breaking open and casting the small munitions across a wide swath. Each smaller weapon contains about twice as much TNT as a standard hand grenade, the newspaper says.




Ukrainian soldiers stand outside the abandoned Russian outpost in Husarivka, in Kharkiv region, on April 14, 2022.PHOTO BY ALKIS KONSTANTINIDIS / REUTERS
Times reporters say they saw large pieces of the artillery rockets that dispensed the cluster munitions, confirming the type of weapon that had been fired. A truck-mounted launcher kilometres away had aimed for the makeshift Russian headquarters in a farm workshop, residents told the reporters, meaning the Russian forces were almost certainly the target.



Ukrainian forces retook the village around March 26. Husarivka is now attacked daily by both Russian artillery and aircraft, residents told the newspaper.

An adviser to the Ukrainian armed forces and the Ministry of Defence declined to comment to the Times.



On April 8, the Times verified that a similar kind of Uragan rocket, loaded with anti-vehicle land mines, was fired by Russian troops in a strike against the town of Bezruky, a suburb of Kharkiv.



In 2015, Ukrainian forces used cluster munitions during the opening months of their war against Russian-backed separatists in the country’s east.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516612618970185729


----------



## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Truth will out you and many of the western media and politicians that you chearlead.


Well, this is one of the few times that the western politicians are actually doing something useful. Like protecting a free and independent country in europe being overrun by an authoritarian giant next door. 

Like protecting us from living under the same authoritarian oppression. 

I am just shocked that western politicians are finally working in our interest after 20 years of failure.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516610927562420226


----------



## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516529164941156356
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516530963903307782


Very disappointing behavior of Scholz
He with his position is isolated within the government. The conservative opposition party will pressure him in a special parliamentary session.
With Germany military might Ukraine army can better withstand the Russo onslaught.

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## thetutle

Viet said:


> Very disappointing behavior of Scholz
> He with his position is isolated within the government. The conservative opposition party will pressure him in a special parliamentary session.
> With Germany military might Ukraine army can better withstand the Russo onslaught.


Its not great. but I'm not concerned as long as the angloshpere is sending arms and money. If Ukraine cant survive with US and UK arms arm money, than nothing can help them.

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## Viet

thetutle said:


> Its not great. but I'm not concerned as long as the angloshpere is sending arms and money. If Ukraine cant survive with US and UK arms arm money, than nothing can help them.


Ukraine will win the war I have no doubt. The time for wars, imperialism aggression is long over. If Vietnam can win, Ukraine can win. It’s just how long will the war last, how much blood will be shed.
US, UK will send more arms.
Biden just announcing fresh weapons delivery. More heavy artillery coming.

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## thetutle

Viet said:


> Ukraine will win the war I have no doubt. The time for wars, imperialism aggression is long over. If Vietnam can win, Ukraine can win. It’s just how long will the war last, how much blood will be shed.
> US, UK will send more arms.
> Biden just announcing fresh weapons delivery. More heavy artillery coming.


Vietnam won, true, but lets not forget it was communist North Vietnam that won. A communist dictatorship. Communism has a tremendous propensity to encourage people to fight fanatically and win. Freedom and democracy have the opposite effect. So the ukranian mindset is nowhere near that or North Vietnam. We can only hope the modern weapons can compensate for this intrinsic weakness.

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## F-22Raptor

Viet said:


> Ukraine will win the war I have no doubt. The time for wars, imperialism aggression is long over. If Vietnam can win, Ukraine can win. It’s just how long will the war last, how much blood will be shed.
> US, UK will send more arms.
> Biden just announcing fresh weapons delivery. More heavy artillery coming.



As long as Western arms are supplied to the Ukrainians, Russia will continue to suffer significant attrition.

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## thetutle

SalarHaqq said:


> Mohammad Marandi, Alastair Crooke, Max Blumenthal, Scott Ritter - a real dream team at this roundtable organized by the University of Tehran! Watch and enjoy.


Scott Ritter, (convicted child sex offender) at 18:00 min predicts Finland will be destroyed as a nation state by russia if it joins NATO. lol he's a comedian.


----------



## Viet

thetutle said:


> Vietnam won, true, but lets not forget it was communist North Vietnam that won. A communist dictatorship. Communism has a tremendous propensity to encourage people to fight fanatically and win. Freedom and democracy have the opposite effect. So the ukranian mindset is nowhere near that or North Vietnam. We can only hope the modern weapons can compensate for this intrinsic weakness.


It’s not communism or socialism or anything else, it was the resolve of the north Vietnamese. But don’t forget we had separations several times with civil wars. With north against south. In both before after separations we were able to defeat chinese armies numerous times over the course of 1,000 years. We annihilated the kingdoms of Champa, Khmer, Siam, Laos, Mongol. US, France wars are short in comparison thus just footnotes in history.


----------



## thetutle

Viet said:


> It’s not communism or socialism or anything else, it was the resolve of the north Vietnamese. But don’t forget we had separations several times with civil wars. In both before after separations we were able to defeat chinese armies numerous times over the course of 1,000 years.


Theres is obviously something fierce and independent in the Vietnamese psyche that allowed this. At least in the Vietnamese of the north. I don't know if they are the same people. If they are, I don't know why South Vietnam didnt win the Vietnam war even with American help. 

It can't be because communism is a good idea. But if they are the same people I attribute the win to communism which toughens people up, I know, I've been there done that.


----------



## Viet

thetutle said:


> Theres is obviously something fierce and independent in the Vietnamese psyche that allowed this. At least in the Vietnamese of the north. I don't know if they are the same people. If they are, I don't know why South Vietnam didnt win the Vietnam war even with American help.
> 
> It can't be because communism is a good idea. But if they are the same people I attribute the win to communism which toughens people up, I know, I've been there done that.


The problem is if you don’t have resolve you will lose the war. No matter you are in strength in paper. I came from the south, my father served in the Republican army. south Vietnam back then I believe possessed the largest navy, the most tanks, the most planes, the largest army more than other armies in south East Asia combined.

Ukraine has everything it needs in psychology to win this war. What it needs now is heavy weapons.

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## thetutle

Viet said:


> The problem is if you don’t have resolve you will lose the war. I came from the south, my father served in the Republican army. south Vietnam back then I believe possessed the largest navy, the most tanks, the most planes, the largest army more than other armies in south East Asia combined.


So you guys lost despite having all the weapons. And if you are the same people as the north, the only difference is your resolve. Why did you have less resolve? I say its because you didn't have communism. If you think its something else, I'd love to know what it is. 

I think communism does a better job of brainwashing people and creating resolve.


----------



## Viet

thetutle said:


> So you guys lost despite having all the weapons. And if you are the same people as the north, the only difference is your resolve. Why did you have less resolve? I say its because you didn't have communism. If you think its something else, I'd love to know what it is.
> 
> I think communism does a better job of brainwashing people and creating resolve.


North Vietnamese are poor they know what they fight for they have nothing to lose. South Vietnamese are keen on making money, spending holidays. They have no interest in fighting own people. Mass desertion was a great phenomenon in Republican army. They lacked of motivation. Lots of corruptions.

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## thetutle

Viet said:


> North Vietnamese know what they fight for they have nothing to lose. South Vietnamese are keen on making money, spending holidays. They have no interest in fighting own people.


yes, thats what I figured. Communism certainly gives its population nothing to lose. And thats the problem with Ukraine. are Ukrainians like the north Vietnamese? I know they are certainly not. so I can only hope the western weapons can close the gap in what they lack in fanaticism. Ukrainians are not by nature fanatical fighters. Historically they are not even close to Russians or Germans for example. But we'll see.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516647963526844418

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516647966181928960


----------



## Viet

thetutle said:


> yes, thats what I figured. Communism certainly gives its population nothing to lose. And thats the problem with Ukraine. are Ukrainians like the north Vietnamese? I know they are certainly not. so I can only hope the western weapons can close the gap in what they lack in fanaticism. Ukrainians are not by nature fanatical fighters. Historically they are not even close to Russians or Germans for example. But we'll see.


Communism can brainwash the people, ok, but is it not the same in fascism, religious fanaticism or other things?
Ukraine army will win. It needs resolve, discipline, endurance and weapons. I have sympathy for underdogs. This war is unjustified, unprovoked.


----------



## patero

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516465774948495361


The latest 'accident' which was caused by a fire onboard the tank, all crew were successfuly evacuated. Russian authorities are investigating the cause of the fire. The tank was badly damaged and collapsed as it was being towed back to base during a storm.

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## thetutle

Viet said:


> Communism can brainwash the people, ok, but is it not the same in fascism, religious fanaticism or other things?
> Ukraine army will win. It needs resolve, discipline, endurance and weapons. I have sympathy for underdogs. This war is unjustified, unprovoked.


What makes communism so dangerous is that it combines fanaticism with modern technology. Similar to fascism but very unlike religious fanaticism which seems to advocate low tech approach. 

I don’t think anyone that follows the world liberal order will fight to the same level as a brainwashed communist of fascist.


----------



## Viet

thetutle said:


> What makes communism so dangerous is that it combines fanaticism with modern technology. Similar to fascism but very unlike religious fanaticism which seems to advocate low tech approach.
> 
> I don’t think anyone that follows the world liberal order will fight to the same level as a brainwashed communist of fascist.


Of course you can’t win the war with chopsticks. We will never beat China if we haven’t adopted gunpowder weapons going back in 14th century. Ukraine needs latest modern weapons. I am sure they will beat the Russians. What Russia succeeds so far?


----------



## thetutle

Viet said:


> Of course you can’t win the war with chopsticks. We will never beat China if we haven’t adopted gunpowder weapons going back in 14th century. Ukraine needs latest modern weapons. I am sure they will beat the Russians. What Russia succeeds so far?


I hope so. But so far Russia is so far succeding in keeping territory in Georgia. Crimea and eastern Ukraine and it is keeping central Asian countries in its orbit against their will. So it is not totally failed in its endeavours


----------



## vizier

Switchblade600 kamikaze drone having 40km range can be effective against heavy artillery in eastern warzone where Russia uses artillery to open way for armor. However without knowing the exact locations of artillery by satellite pictures or counter artillery radar the drones would be limited in effectiveness. Russia would ofcourse use ew equipment like krasukha in return. Unless the drones have iir sensors to target artillery under heavy jamming they wont be effective as well. Because of logistics issues and high vulnurability of larger vehicles transferred longer ranges Ukr can supply mostly man portables like manpads(can still be effective against Su25 unguided low altitude bombing runs),atgms,switchblades to eastern warzone. That is unlike southern Kherson region where they can supply heavy artillery-mlrs and similar that they take from western countries with less risk of getting targeted.

Regarding counter battery radars mostly they are pretty large and transferring them would be difficult in longer ranges.There are smaller ones like Aselsans version below which can be a dangerous combo with switchblade type of mortar launched long range kamikaze drones(Turkey has a version called Alpagu). The smaller counter battery radars generally aim for detecting mortar launch locations but you dont need exact location to launch the drone but estimated position. Smaller almost man portable counter battery radars can be enough to determine estimated positions of artillery even if not exact positions. The drone would handle the rest once it gets close if it has onboard iir sensor that can work under heavy jamming environment. Also regarding heavy jamming the drones can employ INS+IIR only if the target approximate location is known they would still be effective.

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## khansaheeb

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516558663279951872
> 
> Ukraine has officially received additional fighter aircraft


Doubt they will make a difference. NATO should just impose a no fly zone over Ukraine and give Ukrainian forces air cover.


----------



## mulj

Now when Russia narrowed their field of operations they perform better then last two months, right now the Ukrainians are under the greatest challenge since the beginning of the war, it they manage to hold Donbas front intact or to pullback orderly inflicting further casualties to the invading army for extended period of time, their chances are increasing significantly to wage war to attrition which is their intention looking on all help and support given from western states.

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## SalarHaqq

thetutle said:


> Scott Ritter, (convicted child sex offender)



A window into dubious habits of the supreme chief of NATO forces:




















Tara Reade, a former Senate aide who last year accused Joe Biden of inappropriate touching, has made an allegation of sexual assault against the former vice president. 

There used to be other such videos, even compilations on YouTube showing more of the same from Biden. But owing to wonderful "freedom of speech" as practiced by western regimes and their affiliated capitalist media corporations, these clips were either deleted or relegated to unattainable positions in the search results, so I can't be bothered spending hours to look them up.

Most of these children improperly confronted by the president of the US regime aren't fifteen, but likely around six or seven.

I wonder when is he going to be investigated, let alone convicted?



thetutle said:


> at 18:00 min predicts Finland will be destroyed as a nation state by russia if it joins NATO. lol he's a comedian.



To date his prognostics, which by the way are shared by other knowledgeable analysts, turned out to be more accurate than those predicting a collapse of the Russian military etc.



> If Ukraine cant survive with US and UK arms arm money, than nothing can help them.





> But so far Russia is so far succeding in keeping territory in Georgia. Crimea and eastern Ukraine and it is keeping central Asian countries in its orbit against their will. So it is not totally failed in its endeavours.



Interesting, what happened? I thought Ukraine is going to expel the Russians from its territory and reconquer Crimea soon, or at least define these feats as realistic goals to reach. Seems like reality is beginning to set in, isn't it.

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## thetutle

SalarHaqq said:


> To date his prognostics, which by the way are shared by other knowledgeable analysts, turned out to be more accurate than those predicting a collapse of the Russian military etc.


If you bother to write down his quotes, you will see how delusional and wrong this Scott Ritter has been. 


SalarHaqq said:


> Interesting, what happened? I thought Ukraine is going to expel the Russians from its territory and reconquer Crimea soon, or at least define these feats as realistic goals to reach. Seems like reality is beginning to set in, isn't it.


I thought Ukraine would totally fall within 2 weeks. This what is happening is very hard to comprehend, and I think Russia is militarily just above turkey and below UK, France China etc. i used to think erroneously that they were numebr 2 in the world. Oh boy how wrong I was. And when this is all finished whether they win or lose Russia will fall even further down the ladder of capable militaries. Within 5 years even turkey will be able to defeat them.


----------



## Viet

thetutle said:


> I hope so. But so far Russia is so far succeding in keeping territory in Georgia. Crimea and eastern Ukraine and it is keeping central Asian countries in its orbit against their will. So it is not totally failed in its endeavours


Not to forget, as well, Russia swallowed great parts of Finland, China, Japan, Germany, Poland, Moldavia now trying to steal chunks from Ukraine by war. Before that Russia took lots of other independent territories. If Ukraine is finished the Baltic is next. So much of peaceful Russia image. Of course Russo propaganda blame all those countries are Nazi.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Azov holding women and children as humanshield in order to save themselves. Pure evil.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516661186208665600

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516535604363862025

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516545837526138885

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516540938985914369

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516711030914699266

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516711034886799360
Chechen warriors own the day.

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## Piotr

Zelensky's Regime Thugs Liquidated Near Izyum​


> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zelensky's Regime Thugs Liquidated Near Izyum
> 
> 
> How much more cannon fodder will the cokehead Zelensky send?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bitchute.com


How much more cannon fodder will the cokehead Zelensky send?
https://www.bitchute.com/video/xlObUdf1qwvF/

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516706775365468162


----------



## FuturePAF

Ali_Baba said:


> Russia strikes Kyiv factory 'that made missile used to sink flagship Moskva'​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian air strike hits Ukrainian missile factory in Kyiv
> 
> 
> The Kremlin said it hit the 'Vizar' plant which it claims manufactures anti-ship missiles after Ukraine claimed it had used a Neptune anti-ship missile to sink Russia's naval flagship the Moskva.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very salty response by Russia to the sinking of the flagship of the black sea fleet by Ukraine.
> 
> _So Russia is caught in its web of lies again...._


You think that’s salty, if the Russian navy tried to take revenge itself it might do an own goal, considering the dud rate of their own missiles.

Russian warships become submarines, Russian missiles become Torpedos

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## Ali_Baba

Pressure grows on Germany to act on Ukraine's plea for arms


Germany has practically maxed-out the weapons it can deliver from its own stocks and is instead working with its armaments industry and other nations to send more, Scholz said.




www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516749157310124033


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516710103503626244

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516693951226339330
@Vergennes

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516708716187463680

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## mmr

Ukraine receives fighter planes and parts to bolster air force, Pentagon says • FRANCE 24 English​


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516745893151711233
Russia with over 3,000 losses

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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516500283865669643






__





《喀秋莎》小女孩演唱_哔哩哔哩_bilibili


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m.bilibili.com

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516745991772413956

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516745991772413956



Russian planners probably didn't think they would suffer such heavy casualties given their assessments on Ukraine turned out so wrong. 

A great part of their BTGs are such in a poor shape that they have to put together scratches of different BTGs to form one given they actually have no reserves to replace their losses. 

Russian armed forces still face lot of logistical issues many here say the capture of Mariupol will free up forces for the Donbass front,but how many of the BTGs engaged in Mariupol are in good state,how many were decimated,how many will need regeneration before taking up the combat again....

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## Meengla

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *What is the real reason, Russia invaded Ukraine?
> 
> A must watch video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



An almost unique quality of Kim Iverson is that the two guys on her panel have often totally challenged her but she has persisted in her insistence on providing alternate viewpoint about the Russia-Ukraine war. You have got to admire her!! 
Otherwise, most of the anchor persons sit in their echo chambers--as do most of the social media keyboard warriors.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516765939299237893

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## lightning F57

The losses have slowed the Russians down and probably prevented regime change in Kyiv. They will likely now focus on anexing the eastern areas to link up with the south east and Crimea.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516737367683616769


----------



## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> Russian planners probably didn't think they would suffer such heavy casualties given their assessments on Ukraine turned out so wrong.
> 
> A great part of their BTGs are such in a poor shape that they have to put together scratches of different BTGs to form one given they actually have no reserves to replace their losses.
> 
> Russian armed forces still face lot of logistical issues many here say the capture of Mariupol will free up forces for the Donbass front,but how many of the BTGs engaged in Mariupol are in good state,how many were decimated,how many will need regeneration before taking up the combat again....



We will see. I bet they keep reconstituted units in the rear.

That's actually a very dumb, or desperate move.

Regenerated units given new hardware means hardware spent on units which cannot fight.

Putting them in the rear also means that Ukrainians don't need to spend munitions on already disabled units.



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516737367683616769



March 30th Russian counterattack, where they lost half an army division worth of hardware


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516768546214363141


----------



## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> As long as Western arms are supplied to the Ukrainians, Russia will continue to suffer significant attrition.


Ye ms that will be a war of attrition. Russia doesn’t have the resources if the war continues for years. Ukraine needs tanks, long range artillery for the counteroffensives.


----------



## nang2

I believe many people in this thread would love this kind of purge. It is their version of democracy.









Zelensky's Hardline Internal Purge


Ukraine’s "pro-democracy" president has outlawed his opposition, ordered rivals arrested and presided over the disappearance and assassination of dissidents




consortiumnews.com

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516796704816832512

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## Soldier35

Shooting by a professional Russian sniper in Mariupol at the Azovstal industrial zone. The soldier uses a powerful 12.7mm ASVK sniper rifle. Having fired, he immediately crawls away so as not to be hit by possible return fire, which begins after a few seconds.






Russia received a huge amount of captured Ukrainian equipment and weapons. Despite Ukraine's losses, the US and European armies are actively arming Ukraine. The Russian military showed grenade launchers of the Ukrainian army. The Polish RPG-76 "Komar" grenade launcher, the Czechoslovakian RPG-75 grenade launcher, the American M72 A5 grenade launcher, the good Swedish AT4 grenade launcher, are actively used by the Russian military. Swedish-British grenade launcher "NLAW", every second grenade launcher with a dead battery.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516765939299237893





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516804856270528512
First aid to wounded Ukrainian soldier by the Russian forces



Spoiler: Blood coming out of the wounds on the Ukrainian soldier who is treated by the Russian forces





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516829482820292613

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Western media will never show you this 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516836246957481989
Azov bodies littering the streets of Mariupol

You can see them in this Telegram channel. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511384933654224896

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## Hassan Al-Somal

"Ukrainian trophies, on the move, almost new, slightly beaten, not painted! The old owners were not needed, they will go to the LDNR


----------



## RoadAmerica

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> And the fatman from the previous US Administration has the audacity to boasts in front of his audience how they were trained to *lie, cheat and steal*.
> 
> And mighty proud of it.


Say what?
And where are you from? I’m sure your politicians are squeaky clean. Don’t throw rocks at glass houses.


----------



## BHAN85

mmr said:


> Ukraine receives fighter planes and parts to bolster air force, Pentagon says • FRANCE 24 English​





> Kirby did not specify the type of aircraft delivered to the Ukrainian military, which had been pleading for warplanes for weeks, but suggested that they were *Russian-made.*











Ukraine receives fighter planes, parts to bolster air force: Pentagon


Ukraine has received fighter planes and aircraft parts to bolster its air force in the face of Russia's invasion, the Pentagon said Tuesday, declining to specify the number of aircraft or their origin.




www.france24.com





USA is using Ukrainian brainless army as cannon fodder to know how Russia disable their own weapons.



Well done for USA.
And sad by Ukraine, how a country can be so corrupt, dumb and idiot.

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## patero

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516745893151711233
> Russia with over 3,000 losses


That's a lot of 'accidents'.


----------



## thetutle

BHAN85 said:


> Ukraine receives fighter planes, parts to bolster air force: Pentagon
> 
> 
> Ukraine has received fighter planes and aircraft parts to bolster its air force in the face of Russia's invasion, the Pentagon said Tuesday, declining to specify the number of aircraft or their origin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.france24.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USA is using Ukrainian brainless army as cannon fodder to know how Russia disable their own weapons.
> 
> 
> 
> Well done for USA.
> And sad by Ukraine, how a country can be so corrupt, dumb and idiot.


The thing you aren't realising is that Ukraine doesn't actually have to fight. They can surrender at any time and be a part of russia. 

But for some reason they would rather die. And thats because the have already been a part of russia and they've had enough.

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## nang2

thetutle said:


> The thing you aren't realising is that Ukraine doesn't actually have to fight. They can surrender at any time and be a part of russia.
> 
> But for some reason they would rather die. And thats because the have already been a part of russia and they've had enough.


When you speak of Ukraine, keep in mind that there are two Ukraines. One is with ethnic Ukrainians and the other with ethnic Russians. People where the current battles are are mostly ethnic Russians. Many of them want to be a part of Russia simply because Ukrainians are denying them of their Russian cultural heritage, thanks to Ukrainian embrace of ultra-nationalism and neo-Nazism.

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## DF41



Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516792046303993860

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## Get Ya Wig Split

SpaceX shut down a Russian electromagnetic warfare attack in Ukraine last month — and the Pentagon is taking notes​












SpaceX shut down a Russian electromagnetic warfare attack in Ukraine last month — and the Pentagon is taking notes


SpaceX shut down a Russian electromagnetic warfare attack in Ukraine last month — and the Pentagon is taking notes WASHINGTON — Russia’s halting efforts to conduct electromagnetic warfare in Ukraine show how important it is to quickly respond, and immediately shut down, such attacks, Pentagon...



defence.pk






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516855859623563264
Musk letting his nuts hang

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515978321531895811

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516667586297036804

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516848670087557130


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516855478562832394

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## The SC

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516535604363862025


Lezginka at war..HaHaHa!

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## F-22Raptor

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> SpaceX shut down a Russian electromagnetic warfare attack in Ukraine last month — and the Pentagon is taking notes​
> View attachment 836214
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SpaceX shut down a Russian electromagnetic warfare attack in Ukraine last month — and the Pentagon is taking notes
> 
> 
> SpaceX shut down a Russian electromagnetic warfare attack in Ukraine last month — and the Pentagon is taking notes WASHINGTON — Russia’s halting efforts to conduct electromagnetic warfare in Ukraine show how important it is to quickly respond, and immediately shut down, such attacks, Pentagon...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516855859623563264
> Musk letting his nuts hang




Elon s**t on the Russians. It’s that simple

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## nang2

Tragic. Pure tragic.


----------



## TheNoob

nang2 said:


> Tragic. Pure tragic.



Indeed, it is tragic.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516851547015196681

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516771260704993290

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## Get Ya Wig Split

F-22Raptor said:


> Elon s**t on the Russians. It’s that simple


Facts

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516784934534459396

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516855397650509835

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516808919150063616

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## nang2

TheNoob said:


> Indeed, it is tragic.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516851547015196681


Yeah, that, too. I have been following him lately. I am still wishing that he might be just laying low somewhere. The world should see who is actually targeting civilians.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516710348245684230


Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516865964993921030


----------



## dBSPL

A complete list of military vehicles, aircrafts, weapons and ammunition etc. requested by Ukraine from the USA, under military aid.



















Ukraine's defense ministry again caused a Turkish defense system to be deciphered. (Baykar EW POD for tactical UAVs)

Systems requested to be purchased from Turkey:

MILKAR 3A3
MILKAR 4A2

ANKA-S
BAYKAR Bayraktar
BAYKAR EW POD

HISAR-O


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516837376051531782


----------



## gambit

thetutle said:


> The thing you aren't realising is that Ukraine doesn't actually have to fight. They can surrender at any time and be a part of russia.
> 
> *But for some reason they would rather die. *And thats because the have already been a part of russia and they've had enough.


That -- highlighted -- is mysterious to the Russia/Poutine supporters here. Why fight a clearly superior military power? What does your independence have to do with your lives? At least if you are on your knees, you are living and your knee pads are always renewable whenever they wear out. Once in a while you will be whipped but the pain is only temporary. These Ukrainians are a stubborn lot.

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## Vergennes



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## That Guy

TheNoob said:


> Indeed, it is tragic.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516851547015196681


Leave it to the Russians to declare a convicted pedophile to be a good source of information.

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## Vergennes

Russian artillery convoy ambushed


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516873405164929026

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## nang2

That Guy said:


> Leave it to the Russians to declare a convicted pedophile to be a good source of information.


Resorting to character assassination to discredit a person is just lame. Truth is more important than the person who tells the truth. You should get your priority straight.

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## That Guy

nang2 said:


> Resorting to character assassination to discredit a person is just lame. Truth is more important than the person who tells the truth. You should get your priority straight.


Lol, did it ever occur to you that his jailing might have led him to having a grudge, thus resort to lying or telling half truths?

This isn't character assassination, it's pointing out the dubiousness of the source.

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## Wood

gambit said:


> That -- highlighted -- is mysterious to the Russia/Poutine supporters here. Why fight a clearly superior military power? What does your independence have to do with your lives? At least if you are on your knees, you are living and your knee pads are always renewable whenever they wear out. Once in a while you will be whipped but the pain is only temporary. These Ukrainians are a stubborn lot.


.. they also believe that Zelensky is forcing the Ukrainians to fight. Somehow if he was not there, Ukraine would have not decided to fight.


----------



## nang2

That Guy said:


> Lol, did it ever occur to you that his jailing might have led him to have a grudge, thus resort to lying or telling half truths?
> 
> This isn't character assassination, it's pointing out the dubiousness of the source.


Pay attention to the content of what he said, verify it on your own, and then draw your conclusion. If that is not how you digest online content, well, good luck.

By the way, he was the first one I have found to say Russia wasn't going to attack Kyiv when everybody else said otherwise.



Wood said:


> .. they also believe that Zelensky is forcing the Ukrainians to fight. Somehow if he was not there, Ukraine would have not decided to fight.


That is pure nonsense. Ukrainian ultra nationalists and neo-nazis were there long before Zelensky became the president. I don't think Zelensky is forcing anyone to fight. He himself is forced to fight.

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## That Guy

nang2 said:


> Pay attention to the content of what he said, verify it on your own, and then draw your conclusion. If that is not how you digest online content, well, good luck.
> 
> By the way, he was the first one I have found to say Russia wasn't going to attack Kyiv when everybody else said otherwise.


I also said Russia wasn't gonna attack Kyiv, but boy was I wrong about that, as we're a lot of people.

Regardless, your comment is as ridiculous as your stance.

The truth is you actually aren't scrutinizing his claims, you're blindly believing them, based on a few unverified tweets, and nothing more.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516820191572860930


----------



## jamal18

A good simple explanation of the cause of the war. 20 minutes. Professor Meirsheimer.

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## nang2

That Guy said:


> I also said Russia wasn't gonna attack Kyiv, but boy was I wrong about that, as we're a lot of people.
> 
> Regardless, your comment is as ridiculous as your stance.
> 
> The truth is you actually aren't scrutinizing his claims, you're blindly believing them, based on a few unverified tweets, and nothing more.


He gave the reason. Did you give any reason for your comment? Or was it just a gut feeling? It is the reason he gave that brought him the credit. I don't care any random person's comment without a clear line of reasoning.


----------



## That Guy

nang2 said:


> He gave the reason. Did you give any reason for your comment? Or was it just a gut feeling? It is the reason he gave that brought him the credit. I don't care any random person's comment without a clear line of reasoning.


His reason is basically "trust me, bro". Unless you can verify it, there's no reason to believe anything you read on Twitter.

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## nang2

That Guy said:


> His reason is basically "trust me, bro". Unless you can verify it, there's no reason to believe anything you read on Twitter.


Apparently you didn't know what he said. So, good luck. We don't need to continue this conversation.


----------



## That Guy

jamal18 said:


> A good simple explanation of the cause of the war. 20 minutes. Professor Meirsheimer.


You guys never even heard of him before the war, and now you're treating his words like gospel.

🤣



nang2 said:


> Apparently you didn't know what he said. So, good luck. We don't need to continue this conversation.


I know what he said, but nothing was verified, so I have no reason to believe a single word of what's been said.

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## nang2

That Guy said:


> I know what he said, but nothing was verified, so I have no reason to believe a single word of what's been said.


No you don't. He said using that little force to attack a city with 3M population is impossible. Nobody with military knowledge would do that. He judged it from purely military standpoint of view.

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## Wood

Norway Delivers Mistral Air-Defense Missiles to Ukraine


Norway has donated short-range air-defense missiles to Ukraine, Norway’s Defense Ministry said Wednesday, as Western countries step up arms deliveries to help Ukraine fight off Russia's new eastern offensive. The ministry said it shipped about 100 Mistral air-defense missiles and a number of launch




www.wsj.com





Soon the average Ukranian infantry man will be more trained in NATO weapons than an average NATO infantryman

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## BHAN85

Vergennes said:


> View attachment 836229



West European trolls cowardly and stupidly encouraging Ukraine people to kill each other from their homes instead go to Ukraine and fight themselves:








In a nonsense American instigated war against West Europe interests, West Europe states are the dumbest corrupt states over the face of Earth.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516865964993921030



Ukrainians were wiped out in that operation led by the Chechens and the DNR are two tough groups in this war. They're really mopping the Azov Neo Nazis to the floor.



Vergennes said:


> View attachment 836229





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515649265305108485

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## beast89

Russians Z branding already iconic

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516899668411699203

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516895855860670465


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516894927493505029

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516892417265442816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516876097727733760


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516902450212581382

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516910833217032192

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## CAPRICORN-88

RoadAmerica said:


> Say what?
> And where are you from? I’m sure your politicians are squeaky clean. Don’t throw rocks at glass houses.


Which incidentally is true as you says when you compare my nation to the USA.

We don't throw rocks, we arrests them and charged them in court like a proper democracy.

When folks like you fabricate stories or what we called thing you can't proved, you will be responsible for your own action and charged in court under the enacted Fake News Law.

Back in the US, the US will threatened and gagged them using the unconstitutional Homeland Security and Patriot Act. If it is does not works, they simply died accidentally or vanished.
That was why Guantamoro Bay Torture Camp was created outside of US territories, up in Cuba bu the US to circumvent US law then. Since then the US has enacted many draconian anti-people laws.

Wake up.
We know more about your country than you ever imagine.
No fantasy, please

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## CAPRICORN-88

It is good to know life is getting back to normal in Mariupol.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Zalensky named Russia oil as blood oil. 

What is that? Are they red in color?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516932276738617344

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516933090408644609

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516930818127634432


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516933597814525955

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516930818127634432

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## CAPRICORN-88

Americans are not allowed to express alternative views or ideology.

They must followed the official US narratives or otherwise... they are terminated.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516895855860670465


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516897097269846017


----------



## Meengla

BHAN85 said:


> West European trolls cowardly and stupidly encouraging Ukraine people to kill each other from their homes instead go to Ukraine and fight themselves:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a nonsense American instigated war against West Europe interests, West Europe states are the dumbest corrupt states over the face of Earth.


Yup.
The Anglos would go back to their island nations if $shit hits the fan: Colonel Macgregor [paraphrased]

As I have often said here, there is no 'the West' when it comes to geopolitics. There is basically a cabal of Neocons in Washington who leech Americans as well as wherever they can find gullible people to goad into wars and UK is the ever pliant poodle in their designs. And the continental Europe keeps falling into the trap of wars. 
People should sometimes read Patrick J. Buchanan--an American conservative person. One of his lamentations is that the West has destroyed itself long term due to the two World Wars. I wonder what he will say about the current war if this goes out of hand. BTW, he is not a Putin lover f I recall correctly from the last article I read from him.

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## The SC

Urgent The President of Chechnya vows to take full control of the Russian forces over the "Azovstal" plant in the Ukrainian city of Mariupol by the end of Thursday..

@AsharqNewsBrk

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516894927493505029


----------



## Meengla

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> It is good to know life is getting back to normal in Mariupol.



No surprise. Most people want peace in this world. And it might surprise members here that once an army occupies a land then people, who might have been once anti occupation, change their views rather quickly. Not so long ago Ukraine itself had a pro Russian govt or at least not an overtly anti Russian govt. And here we are talking about a region in Ukraine which has a significant Russian heritage. A few years of consolidation of the Russian occupation in the southeast of Ukraine and don't be surprised the population would turn very pro Russian. 



CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Americans are not allowed to express alternative views or ideology.
> 
> They must followed the official US narratives or otherwise... they are terminated.



The censorship in America is carefully calibrated and enforced. The veneer of a 'free press' has to be kept. A relatively unknown Chomsky can say whatever he wants for decades but ignored. But a Tucker Carson or a Tulsi Gabbard is a potential big threat to an established order. True, America is infinitely better than places like Russia and many other places but if a threshold is reached where a voice resonates enough to the point of undercutting the official narrative then such voices won't be allowed. Tucker too has to use his words carefully about the Ukraine war. Trump may have his faults but he brilliantly brought to sharp focus terms like 'mainstream media' and 'fake news'.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516883853431955456
Beware


----------



## The SC

*India doubles its crude oil purchases from Russia despite US warnings*


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516875518129356807


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516856725051260933
This thread was interesting


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516465293610135556


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Meengla said:


> No surprise. Most people want peace in this world. And it might surprise members here that once an army occupies a land then people, who might have been once anti occupation, change their views rather quickly. Not so long ago Ukraine itself had a pro Russian govt or at least not an overtly anti Russian govt. And here we are talking about a region in Ukraine which has a significant Russian heritage. A few years of consolidation of the Russian occupation in the southeast of Ukraine and don't be surprised the population would turn very pro Russian.
> 
> 
> 
> The censorship in America is carefully calibrated and enforced. The veneer of a 'free press' has to be kept. A relatively unknown Chomsky can say whatever he wants for decades but ignored. But a Tucker Carson or a Tulsi Gabbard is a potential big threat to an established order. True, America is infinitely better than places like Russia and many other places but if a threshold is reached where a voice resonates enough to the point of undercutting the official narrative then such voices won't be allowed. Tucker too has to use his words carefully about the Ukraine war. Trump may have his faults but he brilliantly brought to sharp focus terms like 'mainstream media' and 'fake news'.








Sorry wrong video.

This video below is in English and it has already being block from all american and western media

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/d17OBY5C-OsL-A2qG1vogg


----------



## gambit

Meengla said:


> A relatively unknown Chomsky can say whatever he wants for decades but ignored.


Chomsky is hardly 'unknown' and he is definitely not ignored. He always get a crowd. But even if Chimpsky is ignored, so what? Just as Chumpsky have the freedom of speech, I have the freedom to ignore him. You cannot equate apathy with censorship.

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## F-22Raptor

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516883853431955456
> Beware



It will only take 1 year of Javelin production to restock what it’s delivered to Ukraine.

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## The SC

*Norway delivers 100 Mistral anti-aircraft missiles to Ukraine




*

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## thetutle

nang2 said:


> When you speak of Ukraine, keep in mind that there are two Ukraines. One is with ethnic Ukrainians and the other with ethnic Russians. People where the current battles are are mostly ethnic Russians. Many of them want to be a part of Russia simply because Ukrainians are denying them of their Russian cultural heritage, thanks to Ukrainian embrace of ultra-nationalism and neo-Nazism.


They are at most 30% Russian in that area. and they were never oppressed and never denied cultural heritage. 

No doubt you deny the uygurs independence from china even through they are oppressed?


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516857319006556166
Nazi who?

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## thetutle

gambit said:


> That -- highlighted -- is mysterious to the Russia/Poutine supporters here. Why fight a clearly superior military power? What does your independence have to do with your lives? At least if you are on your knees, you are living and your knee pads are always renewable whenever they wear out. Once in a while you will be whipped but the pain is only temporary. These Ukrainians are a stubborn lot.


very true, I will note that most of the supporters of this living on your knees are originally from countries that were recently colonised. The Somalian fellow, some Chinese, some Arabs, some others, where perhaps being colonised is the norm. 

You wont see many afghans supporting being colonised. They were the first non white people to free themselves from the British empire and are fiercely independent. Most europeans will not accept being colonised. They were indeed the colonisers. Living on their knees is just not an option for these people. And the ukranians have reached that point too.

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## The SC




----------



## thetutle

nang2 said:


> By the way, he was the first one I have found to say Russia wasn't going to attack Kyiv when everybody else said otherwise.


but they did attack Kiev. and they lost, and had to retreat.

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## Riea

The neonazis of Ukraine have just killed a well know blogger/journalist GonzaloLira. RiP.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516974851566809088

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2 | Angry Angry:
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## The SC




----------



## thetutle

nang2 said:


> No you don't. He said using that little force to attack a city with 3M population is impossible. Nobody with military knowledge would do that. He judged it from purely military standpoint of view.


you seem to be saying Russian commanders have no military knowledge. many will agree. no doubt Stott Ritter would have done a better job commanding the Russian army. you would probably do a better job as well.


----------



## mmr

thetutle said:


> very true, I will note that most of the supporters of this living on your knees are originally from countries that were recently colonised. The Somalian fellow, some Chinese, some Arabs, some others, where perhaps being colonised is the norm.
> 
> You wont see many afghans supporting being colonised. They were the first non white people to free themselves from the British empire and are fiercely independent. Most europeans will not accept being colonised. They were indeed the colonisers. Living on their knees is just not an option for these people. And the ukranians have reached that point too.


Excellent points.


----------



## thetutle

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516883853431955456
> Beware


his threats only says to me that NATO should enter this war directly. Thinking you will avoid war through appeasement is folly. Letting Ukraine fall will not save other europeans. Ukraine must be the line in the sand. With the jet deliveries to UKR this says to me that such a point of view is becoming more and more apparent to the west.

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## Wood

thetutle said:


> his threats only says to me that NATO should enter this war directly. Thinking you will avoid war through appeasement is folly. Letting Ukraine fall will not save other europeans. Ukraine must be the line in the sand. With the jet deliveries to UKR this says to me that such a point of view is becoming more and more apparent to the west.


I think NATO will not enter unless Putin drops nuke. Even then it may not happen

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## Viet

I don’t understand Olaf Scholz. He is seen by many as “Zauderer”. He rather gives out money than weapons. Soon he will be seen as weakling and coward.
The US gives weapons worth 3.5 billion USD.
More are under consideration.
Ukraine airforce and air defense have regained control over north and west parts of territory.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516903536440885253


----------



## DF41

nang2 said:


> Apparently you didn't know what he said. So, good luck. We don't need to continue this conversation.




Drop that thing you trying to talk to into the pit where many of that thing equals are away from the sun and moon.

Smelling roses can be more enjoyable than trying to educate the uneducatable


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516913868030808065


----------



## Viet

Russian offensive at Donbas lacks momentum, appears stalling.
Putin increases terror bombings on civil infra.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

The SC said:


> *Norway delivers 100 Mistral anti-aircraft missiles to Ukraine
> 
> View attachment 836292
> *


Good. Like all the rest, they will ended up in the blackmart.

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## Stryker1982

Where are the TB2's? Haven't seen a strike in probably a month if I am not mistaken.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

A great way to ensure delivery of these weapons to terrorist organisation. 

Donation to Ukraine that are neither scrutinised nor needed to be account for.

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## thetutle

Opinion: A negotiated peace is the only way to end Russia's war on Ukraine


Columbia University economist and author Jeffrey Sachs argues the US should actively seek to compromise with Russia to end the war in Ukraine.




edition.cnn.com





CNN analyst, ignoring reality. He's jewish BTW, maybe he has Russian ancestry. 

He seems to ignore the fact that UKR already has guarantees by russia and it nevertheless got invaded. 

Ukranians will get their freedom like all people get their freedom. Blowing the oppressors away. a tried and tested method. 

Russia, China, Zimbabwe will and can not dictate who joins what alliance.If they are allowed to dictate this then the west must start dictating who joins whom immediately. 

Solomon Islands just signed a defence pact with china. It has a right to do so, and therefore we should invade them at the same time we launch a decapitation strike? 

The the west goes down the list and recolonises the world where it can. Iran, Saudi, UAE. Is that the ne world order russia is fighting for? do you Russian supporters want this?

USA dismantled the colonial powers, including its own colonies. does anyone really think we should go back to the old order?



Stryker1982 said:


> Where are the TB2's? Haven't seen a strike in probably a month if I am not mistaken.


Those that get stuck usually dont get to talk about it.



CAPRICORN-88 said:


> A great way to ensure delivery of these weapons to terrorist organisation.
> 
> Donation to Ukraine that are neither scrutinised nor needed to be account for.


Yes, russia should arm terrorist groups that tack the west, lets see how that works out for them

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## Stryker1982

thetutle said:


> Those that get stuck usually dont get to talk about it.


Ukrainian MOD has not posted a video of a TB2 strike in over a month. Again, please correct me if I am wrong.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516771300081115140

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## hadi1990

hi all, i hope friends of russia will spread this message or its info content as much as possible, it seems the deadliest weapon supplied by the west to ukraine is not the javelin or the stinger or panzerfaust.... and all that long list what seems to be the deadliest weapon are artillary rounds gps guided secretly supplied and long before the war began, am a hobbyist of history i enjoy documents of war, up from a time in 2019 orso, some of the trends of the ukrainian artillary seem unexplained but by a gps guided shells, those seem to be a secret weapon developed by the west most probably by rheinmentell as a joker weapon that can change the course of a war and will change warfare for ever, the tactic is to use a drone any drone a 200$ dji used one can do the job all waht u need is live feed of a video to show a target else where in control room a computer or an application can derive based on image the exact coordinate of the targets , loaded to the smart 155mm round and its over... more advanced drones can even use there telemetry system for the same exact tactic, satellites also can supply info , 




nothing can explain this hit no laser or ir can even hit under the trees like that
notice only stationary targets or convoys got hit from day one to date






this last following video can be an ultimate proove of what i proposed


----------



## hadi1990

a gps guided artillery can be a turning point in wars where a stand off distance of 20km away from enemy should be at least available to hide equipment in open forests and under trees or in no cieling trenches else it is pointless to keep any piece of equipment out of side shelter, i hope friends of russian share this info it needs to reach the Russians as soon as possible, they can collect the debris and check around the destroyed units am sure they will find ic chips remains from the smart shells...
the most convenient tactic is using thousand of inflatable mock targets but that is hard to introduce within days...
other than that using the night for relocation and move and latter the tree cover that will soon open leaves in the area, jamming totally the gps during periods is complicated but worth saving the army... the troops and specifically the drivers may stay on alert shifts and once a round hits move the units in a pre planned maneuver . using smoke can also help during move or relocation or..

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## The SC

The Ukrainian field operations commanders in Kharkiv are the most professional forces in this war since the beginning of the war, under the bombing, but they succeeded in neutralizing the Russians outside the city so far and in defending it despite the fall of several cities and regions under the control of the Russians, but Kharkiv is still cohesive.. The Russians do not want a settlement The city, but rather its preservation, because it is the most important industrial area in Ukraine, and controlling it without razing it to the ground is a strategic gain, and its loss for Ukraine is a great moral loss..There are approximately 40,000 Ukrainian fighters in the Kharkiv region

The actual battle of Kharkiv did not start, and when the conflict rages in it, we will see Stalingrad in the 21st century and perhaps worse.. The city has more than a million Ukrainians and its area is relatively large and important for both sides..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516886186110947328

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## RescueRanger

Any reliable updates on Mariupol? The Ukrainian's really are hard people. Tremendous respect for people giving it their all to defend their nation.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516906874662236160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516999204140376065


----------



## WotTen

That Guy said:


> You guys never even heard of him before the war, and now you're treating his words like gospel.



John Mearsheimer is well known. He is the author of the book "The Israel Lobby" which is an expose on the total control of US foreign policy by Zionists. Few would doubt his credentials on geopolitical issues.

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## Menthol

thetutle said:


> The thing you aren't realising is that Ukraine doesn't actually have to fight. They can surrender at any time and be a part of russia.
> 
> But for some reason they would rather die. And thats because the have already been a part of russia and they've had enough.



Yes, that is actually the reality.

The comedian president is not fighting for the people of Ukraine.

But for the interest of foreign power.

Just read the demand during the peace negotiation with Russia, it's very clear who doesn't want the peace.

The comedian president is part of the fight that started in the 2014 coup.

The great puzzle is, who is starting the war and want the war to keep going on?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516950780078485504

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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516884574713774080









唱喀秋莎的小女孩长大了，Katyusha Valeria Kurnushkina 2015_哔哩哔哩_bilibili


唱喀秋莎的小女孩长大了，Katyusha Valeria Kurnushkina 2015转自You Tube




www.bilibili.com

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## hadi1990

this war as any other major war will change the prior science of war , Russia is turning the tide with the west they are determined and will win strategically but they really suffer too ... Ukraine is the scapegoat, am too sorry for this end of Ukraine its administration has lost the country for good, the people has lost there future, the west and the us has driven them into a war with russia against their interest... trillions of dollars of whats Ukrainian inherited from the USSR has gone for good for empty promises by the west NATO and Europe

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## WotTen

Meengla said:


> As I have often said here, there is no 'the West' when it comes to geopolitics. There is basically a cabal of Neocons in Washington who leech Americans as well as wherever they can find gullible people to goad into wars and UK is the ever pliant poodle in their designs. And the continental Europe keeps falling into the trap of wars.



Continental Europe has always viewed Britain as America's spy in Europe. It is astounding how stupidly Europe has fallen for this American ploy to pit Europe against Russia as the US sits back and watches the destruction on the continent.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516927305272147968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516926501853278209


----------



## thetutle

Menthol said:


> The great puzzle is, who is starting the war and want the war to keep going on?


It might be a puzzle to you, but most here consider the perks on that started the war the one who invaded a sovereign country. And it will end when the occupier leaves.



hadi1990 said:


> this war as any other major war will change the prior science of war , Russia is turning the tide with the west they are determined and will win strategically but they really suffer too ... Ukraine is the scapegoat, am too sorry for this end of Ukraine its administration has lost the country for good, the people has lost there future, the west and the us has driven them into a war with russia against their interest... trillions of dollars of whats Ukrainian inherited from the USSR has gone for good for empty promises by the west NATO and Europe


From USSR Ukraine inherited poverty bad governance, famine and genocide. And they have no desire to go back to Russian control. Thats over. People are choosing to die before they will go with Russia. 

Russia can steal their land but the west won’t recognise it and sooner or later it will have to be returned

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## thetutle

Menthol said:


> Yes, that is actually the reality.
> 
> The comedian president is not fighting for the people of Ukraine.
> 
> But for the interest of foreign power.


He was chosen by the Ukranian people. And he is fighting for both Ukraine and this whole western world. And it’s a disgrace the west does not send troops and more strategic weapons. Because if he loses then western civilians will start getting killed next.

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## zartosht

Remember when netflix "sanctioned" Russia and cut off all of their 1 million subscribers? 

and western cheerleaders were beating their chests like monkeys screaming west stronk!! sanction stronk!!1 Russia collapse!!! Ruble toilet paper!!!!!


Netflix just lost over a 27% of its entire value overnight when announcing a loss of 2 million subs






Looks like netflix really "stuck it to putin" there. Perhaps Netflix shareholders who lost a fortune can stop showering for a bit to stick it to Putin some more....?

#westernsanctionsstronkkkkkkkk

Reactions: Like Like:
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## That Guy

zartosht said:


> Remember when netflix "sanctioned" Russia and cut off all of their 1 million subscribers?
> 
> and western cheerleaders were beating their chests like monkeys screaming west stronk!! sanction stronk!!1 Russia collapse!!! Ruble toilet paper!!!!!
> 
> 
> Netflix just lost over a 27% of its entire value overnight when announcing a loss of 2 million subs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like netflix really "stuck it to putin" there. Perhaps Netflix shareholders who lost a fortune can stop showering for a bit to stick it to Putin some more....?
> 
> #westernsanctionsstronkkkkkkkk


If this is your proof of "Russia stronk" than you really need to try harder. Lol

Netflix will be fine, not sure about Russia's economy though.



nang2 said:


> No you don't. He said using that little force to attack a city with 3M population is impossible. Nobody with military knowledge would do that. He judged it from purely military standpoint of view.


Sure, you keep believing what you think I did and didn't do, and unverified hot takes.


----------



## Soldier35

The crew of the Russian T-80BV tank demonstrated mastery of the tank in Ukraine. The tankers showed a steep 360-degree drift of the tank.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517007534128775168
Russian pundits foaming about erasing NYC with a 7.5 MT nuke

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## Hassan Al-Somal

thetutle said:


> very true, I will note that most of the supporters of this living on your knees are originally from countries that were recently colonised. The Somalian fellow, some Chinese, some Arabs, some others, where perhaps being colonised is the norm.
> 
> You wont see many afghans supporting being colonised. They were the first non white people to free themselves from the British empire and are fiercely independent. Most europeans will not accept being colonised. They were indeed the colonisers. Living on their knees is just not an option for these people. And the ukranians have reached that point too.



So being forced to be part of Yugoslavia by Marshall Tito at the end of World War II, and then *being led to the slaughter house as lambs in the 1990s *- *where you lost 200,000 people *- aren't same as being "colonized"? What the heck, you're forced to share a government with the same guys (Serbs) who carried out the genocide against your people in the 1990s to the point where they have a veto power over every actions that your government takes. Heck, the same West that you love so much imposed an arms embargo on you (Bosnian Muslims) when you were getting massacred in the 1990s. You really look like an abused guy who loves his abusers. But carry on........

Arabs, Chinese, and Somalis resisted foreign domination for 1000s of years. Go read a book instead of chatting shit.


----------



## gambit

Menthol said:


> Yes, that is actually the reality.
> 
> The comedian president is not fighting for the people of Ukraine.
> 
> But for the interest of foreign power.
> 
> Just read the demand during the peace negotiation with Russia, it's very clear who doesn't want the peace.
> 
> The comedian president is part of the fight that started in the 2014 coup.
> 
> The great puzzle is, who is starting the war and want the war to keep going on?


Yes, it was great that France surrendered to Germany thereby denying foreign powers the satisfaction of seeing France being their pawn. Hitler's deal for France was actually quite reasonable: live on your knees. Better than dead.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517053135663116288

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516913868030808065



What the heck, looks like rehashing old photos, that doesn't prove the MLRS BM-1 launcher even belonged to Russians, is the way some are doing to keep the propaganda going. It seems desperate to me.





Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517053135663116288




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517049921928454144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517066148029771777

The 1,478 figure is the total of new soldiers that surrendered from Asovstal today according to the The Silksworth Post.


----------



## yuba

thetutle said:


> He was chosen by the Ukranian people. And he is fighting for both Ukraine and this whole western world. And it’s a disgrace the west does not send troops and more strategic weapons. Because if he loses then western civilians will start getting killed next.


I don't understand how people can be on Russia's side it invaded a sovereign nation is bombing residential homes. The brave Ukrainians are giving them a good fight and more power to them the comedian president could have gone to the west but chose to stay with his people.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517080797567717377


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517080797567717377



This ambush has taken place in south of Izyum.



Spoiler


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517037305105510400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516944419856994305


Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517053135663116288





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517087949430607872

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## Primus

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517037305105510400
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516944419856994305


@RescueRanger 

Seems like Russia has claimed to have taken all of Mariupol. 

Also are you getting major winter war/continuation war vibes from this war?

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517087994620137472


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

When even Israel the staunchest US ally is doing this and beginning to feel uncomfortable, we know which direction the world is heading.

Israel Adds Yuan to $206 Billion Reserves in ‘Philosophy’ Change​
Canadian, Australian, Japanese currencies also added to basket
Bank of Israel is moving to *reduce* allocation for *dollar, euro*






The Central Bank of Israel in Jerusalem, Israel.
Photographer: Kobi Wolf/Bloomberg
By
Daniel Avis
+Follow
April 20, 2022, 5:38 PM GMT+8

Bloomberg

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## Piotr

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517037305105510400
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516944419856994305
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517087949430607872





Huffal said:


> @RescueRanger
> 
> Seems like Russia has claimed to have taken all of Mariupol.
> 
> Also are you getting major winter war/continuation war vibes from this war?



All of Mariupol exept Azovstal.

Putin orders to cancel Azovstal steel plant storming in Mariupol and block industrial zone ​21 Apr, 10:55

The Russian president explained his order with considerations of preserving the lives of the Russian servicemen

MOSCOW, April 21. /TASS/. Russian President Vladimir Putin on Thursday at a meeting with Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu called the storming of the Azovstal steel plant in Mariupol inexpedient and ordered its cancellation.
"I consider the proposed storming of the steel plant inexpedient. I order you to cancel it," the commander-in-chief said. "Yes sir!" Shoigu replied.
Putin explained his order with considerations of preserving the lives of the Russian servicemen. "This is a case where we must think, that is, we must always think, but in this case what is more important is preserving the lives and health of our soldiers and officers. There is no reason to penetrate through these subterranean pathways and beneath these industrial facilities," the president stressed.
"Block off this industrial zone so that a fly wouldn’t be able to get out," he ordered.

Putin also instructed Shoigu to once again suggest that all those who have not yet laid down their weapons do so. "The Russian side guarantees their lives. They will be treated with dignity in accordance with the relevant international legal acts. All those who have been wounded will be provided qualified medical care," the president noted.
Shoigu reported to Putin that all of Mariupol is under control, the militants are securely blocked at the Azovstal steel plant.

https://tass.com/politics/1440943


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516822727465787399
Kadyrov tiktok batallions strike again

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## RoadAmerica

nang2 said:


> No you don't. He said using that little force to attack a city with 3M population is impossible. Nobody with military knowledge would do that. He judged it from purely military standpoint of view.


Dude Scott has been paid by RT for the past 3 years, what narrative do you expect him to tell🤷🏿‍♂️


----------



## RoadAmerica

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Which incidentally is true as you says when you compare my nation to the USA.
> 
> We don't throw rocks, we arrests them and charged them in court like a proper democracy.
> 
> When folks like you fabricate stories or what we called thing you can't proved, you will be responsible for your own action and charged in court under the enacted Fake News Law.
> 
> Back in the US, the US will threatened and gagged them using the unconstitutional Homeland Security and Patriot Act. If it is does not works, they simply died accidentally or vanished.
> That was why Guantamoro Bay Torture Camp was created outside of US territories, up in Cuba bu the US to circumvent US law then. Since then the US has enacted many draconian anti-people laws.
> 
> Wake up.
> We know more about your country than you ever imagine.
> No fantasy, please


Wow that’s a lot of assumptions, I noticed you didn’t even answer my original question in that rant. “Your” country being a model, not even knowing where you are from I can say that’s the e best joke I’ve heard all day. 
Way to assume my knowledge and education, shows how dense you really are.

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## CAPRICORN-88

When even Israel a US ally is beginning to feel uncomfortable, we know where the world is heading.

Israel Adds Yuan to $206 Billion Reserves in ‘Philosophy’ Change​
Canadian, Australian, Japanese currencies also added to basket
Bank of Israel is moving to *reduce* allocation for *dollar, euro*





The Central Bank of Israel in Jerusalem, Israel.
Photographer: Kobi Wolf/Bloomberg
By
Daniel Avis
+Follow
April 20, 2022, 5:38 PM GMT+8


RoadAmerica said:


> Wow that’s a lot of assumptions, I noticed you didn’t even answer my original question in that rant. “Your” country being a model, not even knowing where you are from I can say that’s the e best joke I’ve heard all day.
> Way to assume my knowledge and education, shows how dense you really are.


I already did. It is hardly my problem if one can't comprehend it. Others do.

This being an exception as I don't normally respond to trolls.

This is not an assumption as you believe.
This is indeed a smart move by the Israel Central Banker and they did it out of strategic interest. It will safeguard them just in case.

The precedence set by the US and EU is dangerous and the sword cuts both ways. Switzerland sanction against Russia lasted only 2 days.

This shows how little you understands about geopolitics.

  

For instance, do you understand why Israel did not vote against Russia at the UN?


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Boris Johnson now in India and trying very hard to persuade Modi to join them and go against Russia.

Boris Johnson is even prepared to bribe India with an easy FTA.

Why of all countries, the US and allies is so eager to recruit India? Hint: Three words.

Most Asians generally will understand the reasons but not them.

Will it works?

*Solomon Island just simply ignored the threat of invasion by Australia and signed the Security Pact with China. *

Why do the US and Australia feel so threaten when Soloman Island is 2000 km away from Australia and even further away from the US coastline?

How does this Security Pact affects both the US and Australia National Security?

The world has changed. The King summons his slaves and subjects and no one turns up.


----------



## mmr

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> A great way to ensure delivery of these weapons to terrorist organisation.
> 
> Donation to Ukraine that are neither scrutinised nor needed to be account for.


Lol cry harder



CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Boris Johnson now in India and trying very hard to persuade Modi to join them and go against Russia.
> 
> Boris Johnson is even prepared to bribe India with an easy FTA.
> 
> Why of all countries, the US and allies is so eager to recruit India? Hint: Three words.
> 
> Most Asians generally will understand the reasons but not them.
> 
> Will it works?
> 
> *Solomon Island just simply ignored the threat of invasion by Australia and signed the Security Pact with China. *
> 
> Why do the US and Australia feel so threaten when Soloman Island is 2000 km away from Australia and even further away from the US coastline?
> 
> How does this Security Pact affects both the US and Australia National Security?
> 
> The world has changed. The King summons his slaves and subjects and no one turns up.


India like Russia but not china lol

They will do everything possible to contain china with the help of west.


----------



## mmr

zartosht said:


> Remember when netflix "sanctioned" Russia and cut off all of their 1 million subscribers?
> 
> and western cheerleaders were beating their chests like monkeys screaming west stronk!! sanction stronk!!1 Russia collapse!!! Ruble toilet paper!!!!!
> 
> 
> Netflix just lost over a 27% of its entire value overnight when announcing a loss of 2 million subs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like netflix really "stuck it to putin" there. Perhaps Netflix shareholders who lost a fortune can stop showering for a bit to stick it to Putin some more....?
> 
> #westernsanctionsstronkkkkkkkk


its not for sanctions lmao

I thought wall street valuation is fake as per pdf why jumping on air now ha ha

Apple valuation alone is 6 times bigger then iran gdp.


----------



## retaxis

mmr said:


> Lol cry harder
> 
> 
> India like Russia but not china lol
> 
> They will do everything possible to contain china with the help of west.


What india issue with china? No historical issue, no 'people' trapped in between like kashmir. Only a few uninhabitated lands with a couple of goat herders. If China wanted, China can fix issues with India in a day and that changes the geopolitical situation in Asia instantly


----------



## KAL-EL

mmr said:


> its not for sanctions lmao
> 
> I thought wall street valuation is fake as per pdf why jumping on air now ha ha
> 
> Apple valuation alone is 6 times bigger then iran gdp.



Not a Netflix subscriber (I personally prefer HBO Max)

But even I know that company is incredibly powerful and certainly. not going anywhere.

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## DF41

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1MM4y1F72b/?  A full body katyusha song to delight and enlightened the Nazis of Ukraine and keeping them not getting older forever .

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## Vergennes

Chechens fighting for Ukraine with a captured Russian T72B3


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517120818102378497


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

mmr said:


> Lol cry harder
> 
> 
> India like Russia but not china lol
> 
> They will do everything possible to contain china with the help of west.





mmr said:


> Lol cry harder
> 
> 
> India like Russia but not china lol
> 
> They will do everything possible to contain china with the help of west.


Stop trolling in here. 
I don't respond to trolls esp those who do not know what they are talking about.

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## mmr

retaxis said:


> What india issue with china? No historical issue, no 'people' trapped in between like kashmir. Only a few uninhabitated lands with a couple of goat herders. If China wanted, China can fix issues with India in a day and that changes the geopolitical situation in Asia instantly


Ask modi

Indians are in bed with west to contain china. Only naive ppl will think they will not.



KAL-EL said:


> Not a Netflix subscriber (I personally prefer HBO Max)
> 
> But even I know that company is incredibly powerful and certainly. not going anywhere.


I like Disney

It wont go anywhere. Netflix and all the IT stocks went up like 300 percent or more last 5 years. Its good to have some market corrections.



CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Stop trolling in here.
> I don't respond to trolls esp those who do not know what they are talking about.


Lol

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517072703743791104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517073913066491906

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## hadi1990

with no food and water and a thousand azov forces inside with hundred others wounded , u can wait to see the out come


----------



## CAPRICORN-88



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## PakFactor

hadi1990 said:


> with no food and water and a thousand azov forces inside with hundred others wounded , u can wait to see the out come



Easiest solution would have been to just literally bomb that plant to the ground. Russians can’t take POWs as supply lines are stretched thin and this way you get read of couple thousand men/women who are of fighting caliber. It’s stupid these morons wasting time on theatrics throughout this whole conflict. I would have bombed all of Ukraine into a graveyard by now.


----------



## letsrock

thetutle said:


> very true, I will note that most of the supporters of this living on your knees are originally from countries that were recently colonised. The Somalian fellow, some Chinese, some Arabs, some others, where perhaps being colonised is the norm.
> 
> You wont see many afghans supporting being colonised. They were the first non white people to free themselves from the British empire and are fiercely independent. Most europeans will not accept being colonised. They were indeed the colonisers. Living on their knees is just not an option for these people. And the ukranians have reached that point too.



wow! mocking the colonized as weak. I am pretty sure you are the sort of guy who will rape a woman and claim she enjoyed it and then mock her. Most of these east european ukraine supporters seem to be of the same character material. Scratch their surface of sweet words of freedom then the real monster or as the chechen leader calls "shaitans" come out.

There is a reason america was willing to put its blood on line for kuwaitis but not for ukrainains.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Biden announced a new $800M package:

Dozens of new howitzers, 144,000 rounds, tactical drones

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## PakFactor

mmr said:


> Lol cry harder
> 
> 
> India like Russia but not china lol
> 
> They will do everything possible to contain china with the help of west.



But Indians are smart not to fight the Wests war with flesh and blood. I’ve always told Pakistanis milk all sides but extract a cost, we’ve always failed at this.

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## CAPRICORN-88

This one came from CNN. 

So they are still in storage at Latvia according to this guy.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517144943130595331


----------



## Meengla

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Good. Like all the rest, they will ended up in the blackmart.



The first time I heard about the untold numbers of small weapons, SAMs, and rockets etc distributed freely without much of an oversight was from an Indian analyst who said something like 'wait some months or years and you will see various airports in Europe under the threat of projectiles launched by anti-Western forces'. 



hadi1990 said:


> with no food and water and a thousand azov forces inside with hundred others wounded , u can wait to see the out come



Unless some Ukrainian push comes into Mariupol and re-take the city, the AzovStal plant does not matter in military terms. It is a 4 sq mile / 11 sq km plant which is good for some 'feel good' affect but the Russians have them surrounded and even Zelenskyy said today how long they could hold out-- 'hours or days'. Mariupol is gone for all practical purposes. 
*Russia has achieved the 'coveted' land bridge and is going to consolidate its gains. *

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## CAPRICORN-88

​For Gasprom, it is rather simple and straightforward.

If they did not received their payment by the deadline, the GAS will be cut off.

Who do you think will win?
The politician or Gasprom.

Simple business rule. The ball now roll back into the court of the politicians. 
​Germany Rejects Putin’s Demand for Gas Payments in Rubles​
Finance Minister says dollar, euro contracts must be honored
Russian leader has threatened to halt natural gas supplies






Christian LindnerPhotographer: Liesa Koppitz-Johanssen/Bloomberg
By
Birgit Jennen and
Annmarie Hordern
+Follow
April 20, 2022, 10:07 PM GMT+8Updated onApril 20, 2022, 11:25 PM GMT+8
Companies buying Russian natural gas should not have to set up ruble accounts to pay for it, German Finance Minister Christian Lindner said, pushing back against a demand made last month by Russian President Vladimir Putin.
“Contracts are contracts,” Lindner said Wednesday in an interview with Bloomberg Television in Washington. “Contracts are based on dollars and euros and so private-sector companies should pay in dollars or euros.”

 Bloomberg.

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## sammuel

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517080797567717377



It was not shot down, It caught fire and the crew was evacuated.

~

Another one " caught fire " :


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517147486481117184

~

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## Soldier35

Russian assault units are leaving Mariupol, multiple sources report this. A small part of the Russian units remains to block the Azovstal plant, the rest are transferred to other sectors of the Ukrainian front to develop an offensive there. Where the troops are going is unknown, perhaps Kharkov, Nikolaev or Kherson.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517152964355403777

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## Meengla

Soldier35 said:


> Russian assault units are leaving Mariupol, multiple sources report this. A small part of the Russian units remains to block the Azovstal plant, the rest are transferred to other sectors of the Ukrainian front to develop an offensive there. Where the troops are going is unknown, perhaps Kharkov, Nikolaev or Kherson.



It is understandable why would Russian troops leave. Mariupol is mostly evacuated--from 400,000 down to 120,000 and those who are still there, except for the AzovStal plant, are not likely a potent threat. Even AzovStal is not an immediate/potent threat unless Ukrainians break into the city.

But why not post videos in English?? The world really needs to know the other side's POV otherwise one dominant narrative has driven the war so far and such one-sided coverage perpetuate the conflict and misery.


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## FairAndUnbiased

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516875518129356807


This must be from the Ukrainian counteroffensive heading closer and closer to Mykolaiv and advancing to the west.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517155428324429824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517155841455108096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517155794873053185


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## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517155428324429824
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517155841455108096
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517155794873053185


The US is generous. last week 800 million USD, this week 1.3 billion USD. So almost 1 billion per week. Still much cheaper than Putin spends on war: 5 billion USD per week. Zelenskki can be happy. Russia will become faster bankrupt than the US.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517165874372825092

Wow

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## letsrock

FairAndUnbiased said:


> China has never been colonized, only under influence of and weaker than colonizers, but never ruled over. There was always an independent Chinese government since 200 BC. Even those who conquered China, like Mongol Yuan, had to contend with constant rebellion and eventually Chinese got our revenge, razed Shangdu to the ground, invaded Mongolia, took half their land and kicked the rest out to beyond the Gobi desert. That's why we own Inner Mongolia.
> 
> Hilarious to talk about fighting for independence from you when you were ruled by Serbians and Turks. There was no independent Bosnian government for centuries. And you still have never gotten revenge on Serbia.
> 
> 
> Indeed we support the independence of all countries, including Russia. Right now it is Russia fighting for its independence. Ukraine is just the battleground. Going on the tactical offensive doesn't mean being the one to actually strike first.



Even if china were colonized there is no shame on Chinese - yes its unfortunate for chinese and lessons to be learnt. but one should never shame victims. 

@thetutle once told me he has no shame if nazis were to win and use bosnians as cheap labor. After all they are doing the same now in German factories is his opinion. I dont think these people crave for dignity or independence or freedom but the race and culture of their conqueror. I have seen people from south asia and africa behave more dignifiedly and with more independence.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517155794873053185

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517158161236598784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517158328794759169


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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> So being forced to be part of Yugoslavia by Marshall Tito at the end of World War II, and then *being led to the slaughter house as lambs in the 1990s *- *where you lost 200,000 people *- aren't same as being "colonized"?


Being forced into Tito's Yugoslavia not great, but it was not colonialisation. We had citizenship, freedom of travel, equal rights, freedom to have our language and culture. Some religion, but not much, and not our national name. Christians were oppressed too to the same degree. So Communists were pretty bad, but not as bas as the Serbian king who did colonise us for 20 years. Thankfully Hitler and Tito got rid of him. Thats was 20 years of colonialisation. 

In 1992-1995 lost 100,000 citizens of all religions and ethnic groups when we were invaded by a neighbour. So that was an invasion and failed colonialisation.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> What the heck, you're forced to share a government with the same guys (Serbs) who carried out the genocide against your people in the 1990s to the point where they have a veto power over every actions that your government takes.


We are not forced to share government. We choose to do this because Serbs are our citizens. We have lived together for 1,000 years, we are almost the same people and have the same language and same traditions. Same jokes. We marry each other. Always have always will. We will not let them leave us even if they have total control of our government. Its a marriage that cant be ended. They are the unhappy bride and will smash a few plates, burn the house down, but they are staying in the marriage. We need a marriage councillor because we will not accept a divorce. 


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Heck, the same West that you love so much imposed an arms embargo on you (Bosnian Muslims) when you were getting massacred in the 1990s. You really look like an abused guy who loves his abusers.


West armed us secretly, gave us a no fly zone, What ukranians are begging for. If west armed us too early and too well, Russia would get more involved, Serbia would get openly involved, this was hard and painful but had to be done this way. 



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Arabs, Chinese, and Somalis resisted foreign domination for 1000s of years. Go read a book instead of chatting shit.


These people did resist foreign domination, but unfortunately were colonised. And all I was suggesting is that to some colonised people, surrendering is really an option, and they really want Ukraine to give up because freedom and independence is such foreign concept to them. Like for you perhaps. 

And yes we in Bosnia were colonised perhaps only by the Ottomans. And it sucks to be colonised. But once you are integrated into an empire, and have the same rights and enough freedoms it kind of stops being colonialisaiton. Were Bosnians muslims colonial servants to Ottomans in 1700's? not really. 

Colonialisation is palestine, its china, its Africa, when they take away your rights and put a sign in a Bejing park that says "no dogs or chinamen". 

I dont know why you would want that misery upon the Ukranian people. They are fighting to be free in their own internationally recognised borders.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517155841455108096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517168186042560512

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## thetutle

sammuel said:


> It was not shot down, It caught fire and the crew was evacuated.
> 
> ~
> 
> Another one " caught fire " :
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517147486481117184
> 
> ~


You can just see this helicopter accident take place in real time. A fire and explosion just engulfed the vicinity of the helicopter. I expect the passengers and crew to be at the parade in May. 

I am sure Russian revenge will be massive for Ukraine having nothing to do with this accident. 

New York will also burn even though their missiles are useless against Helicopters.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517167966386900993

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## Viet

PakFactor said:


> Easiest solution would have been to just literally bomb that plant to the ground. Russians can’t take POWs as supply lines are stretched thin and this way you get read of couple thousand men/women who are of fighting caliber. It’s stupid these morons wasting time on theatrics throughout this whole conflict. I would have bombed all of Ukraine into a graveyard by now.


You would bomb all into graveyard?
Why are you so? NO respect for human lives?
Putin army can’t take the steel mills, he orders to dig in. the casualty for Russian troops would too big to swallow. that’s a big victory for the Ukrainian defenders. Now Putin has time he can invent more Nazi stories.

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517155841455108096
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517168186042560512


Is there any estimate for the number of artillery pieces that the Russians have on the eastern front? How possible is it for the Ukrainian side to maintain ammunition at required levels for the rest of this war?


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## thetutle

Viet said:


> The US is generous. last week 800 million USD, this week 1.3 billion USD. So almost 1 billion per week. Still much cheaper than Putin spends on war: 5 billion USD per week. Zelenskki can be happy. Russia will become faster bankrupt than the US.


Its darn expensive. Even if its 52 million this year. Its nothing for America and cheaper than having russia conquer Ukraine. A world in which Ukraine falls will be much more expensive.


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## Viet

Less money for Putin

Germany will reduce oil imports from Russia to 0 by end of this year. 
The gas imports will start to reduce gradually by next year.



Annalena Baerbock: Außenministerin will Ende 2022 kein Öl mehr aus Russland importieren - DER SPIEGEL


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## F-22Raptor

Wood said:


> Is there any estimate for the number of artillery pieces that the Russians have on the eastern front? How possible is it for the Ukrainian side to maintain ammunition at required levels for the rest of this war?



Don't know about towed artillery, but I saw estimates of 450 self propelled artillery pieces and 450 MLRS systems at the beginning of the war. Thats clearly much smaller today. 

The towed M777s are superior to any of Russias towed pieces. Superior fire control, and guided ammo. This is a big step up for the Ukrainians. 


Bigger news is the Ukrainians now have more tanks in Ukraine than the Russians.

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## PakFactor

Viet said:


> You would bomb all into graveyard?
> Why are you so? NO respect for human lives?
> Putin army can’t take the steel mills, he orders to dig in. the casualty for Russian troops would too big to swallow. that’s a big victory for the Ukrainian defenders. Now Putin has time he can invent more Nazi stories.



I'm applying the same logic the West uses in conflict in there "Total War" concept so this is nothing new. I don't get into caring about life we're way beyond that emotional point.
What Putin is doing is wasting time, money and lives when he could just bomb it and free up men/women to position towards other fronts.

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## letsrock

thetutle said:


> These people did resist foreign domination, but unfortunately were colonised. And all I was suggesting is that to some colonised people, surrendering is really an option, and they really want Ukraine to give up because freedom and independence is such foreign concept to them. Like for you perhaps.
> 
> And yes we in Bosnia were colonised perhaps only by the Ottomans. And it sucks to be colonised. But once you are integrated into an empire, and have the same rights and enough freedoms it kind of stops being colonialisaiton. Were Bosnians muslims colonial servants to Ottomans in 1700's? not really.
> 
> Colonialisation is palestine, its china, its Africa, when they take away your rights and put a sign in a Bejing park that says "no dogs or chinamen".
> 
> I dont know why you would want that misery upon the Ukranian people. They are fighting to be free in their own internationally recognised borders.


what a load of garbage. So many words just to say " i identify as european white and i claim superiority to you and it sucks to be you ". And you think people cannot see through the sophistry.

When were ukrainian people colonized by russians ever ? Russia declares itself as multi national country with so many nationalities inside. Russians and Ukrainaians have always freely intermarried.

you just cannot accept an "inferior" eastern country like Russia having a more say as opposed to western nazi whom you hold higher in racial totem pole. Thats all there is once stripped off all your word salad.

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## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> Don't know about towed artillery, but I saw estimates of 450 self propelled artillery pieces and 450 MLRS systems at the beginning of the war. Thats clearly much smaller today.
> 
> The towed M777s are superior to any of Russias towed pieces. Superior fire control, and guided ammo. This is a big step up for the Ukrainians.
> 
> 
> Bigger news is the Ukrainians now have more tanks in Ukraine than the Russians.


How many tanks did Russia send into Ukraine?


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## F-22Raptor

Huffal said:


> How many tanks did Russia send into Ukraine?



I've seen estimates of 750-1,200.


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## Viet

thetutle said:


> Its darn expensive. Even if its 52 million this year. Its nothing for America and cheaper than having russia conquer Ukraine. A world in which Ukraine falls will be much more expensive.


You mean $52 billion for the US. That’s about one day US Gdp of $22 trillion. That’s still ok.
For Russians that bill is much higher. Russia pays 5x times more with much lesser GDP. Not participated: Russia economy will shrink between 10 and 20 percent, while the US is growing. Just a matter of time russia war machine will stop.

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## thetutle

letsrock said:


> Even if china were colonized there is no shame on Chinese - yes its unfortunate for chinese and lessons to be learnt. but one should never shame victims.


Exactly. the shame is in the west for being the colonisers. 


letsrock said:


> @thetutle once told me he has no shame if nazis were to win and use bosnians as cheap labor. After all they are doing the same now in German factories is his opinion. I dont think these people crave for dignity or independence or freedom but the race and culture of their conqueror. I have seen people from south asia and africa behave more dignifiedly and with more independence.


I think its kind of funny. If Germany won WW2, Bosnians would be working in German factories as cheap labour. Now that Germany lost the war, Bosnians work in Germany factories as cheap labour. How can anyone be angry at germans for that? 

We have our independence, as much as anyone can have in this current world. We will eventually join the Franco-German Empire (also known as the EU) and then we will give up some of our independence in order to join a big block with will keep us safe from Russia and China and none else. We actually want to live in a western democratic system. Like you are living in America. Like people form the 3rd world are risking their lives to get to the west. 

Yes, freedom and democracy are that good.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517167966386900993


How can 100 Howitzers had a significant impact? but ok.

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## F-22Raptor

Ukraine now has quantitative superiority in tanks. It now looks like the East will turn into an artillery battle.


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## letsrock

thetutle said:


> Exactly. the shame is in the west for being the colonisers.
> 
> I think its kind of funny. If Germany won WW2, Bosnians would be working in German factories as cheap labour. Now that Germany lost the war, Bosnians work in Germany factories as cheap labour. How can anyone be angry at germans for that?
> 
> We have our independence, as much as anyone can have in this current world. We will eventually join the Franco-German Empire (also known as the EU) and then we will give up some of our independence in order to join a big block with will keep us safe from Russia and China and none else. We actually want to live in a western democratic system. Like you are living in America. Like people form the 3rd world are risking their lives to get to the west.
> 
> Yes, freedom and democracy are that good.



Nazis occupying you as a nation and forcing you to work in their factories at gun point is same as bosnians *individually *taking a decision to work in german factory for their personal benefit ?

People migrate to persian gulf too - in millions. There is no democracy there. it is a historical norm for people to migrate to wealtheir nations - you will see lot of american and british in dubai as well. There is no comparision of enslaving nations to individual decisions of migration.

I think you dont really understand west too. They wont take you in when it comes to them at a great cost.

Anyway it appears you have no problem trading your independence as long as it is for proper race. You claim freedom and democracy as the reason but somehow i doubt it as you are willing even to join nazis

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## K_Bin_W

PakFactor said:


> Easiest solution would have been to just literally bomb that plant to the ground. Russians can’t take POWs as supply lines are stretched thin and this way you get read of couple thousand men/women who are of fighting caliber. It’s stupid these morons wasting time on theatrics throughout this whole conflict. I would have bombed all of Ukraine into a graveyard by now.



Looks like Russkies need to learn from the amreekans how to kill and flaten.

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## thetutle

Wood said:


> Is there any estimate for the number of artillery pieces that the Russians have on the eastern front? How possible is it for the Ukrainian side to maintain ammunition at required levels for the rest of this war?


 A few weeks ago there was that guy that was an American with Chinese & Mexican ancestry who was a marine, a spy and a cop. 

He explained how many artillery pieces each Russian TBG has. 

But yes, keeping Ukranian logistics going will mean the difference between victory and defeat. This could still go either way unfortunately.



F-22Raptor said:


> The towed M777s are superior to any of Russias towed pieces. Superior fire control, and guided ammo. This is a big step up for the Ukrainians.


There is no way Americans are giving them M777's. Are they?

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## F-22Raptor

thetutle said:


> A few weeks ago there was that guy that was an American with Chinese & Mexican ancestry who was a marine, a spy and a cop.
> 
> He explained how many artillery pieces each Russian TBG has.
> 
> But yes, keeping Ukranian logistics going will mean the difference between victory and defeat. This could still go either way unfortunately.
> 
> 
> There is no way Americans are giving them M777's. Are they?




Its almost certainly M777s. The Pentagon stated how it will provide a "significant" boost in Ukrainian firepower. And that has to be due to the counter-battery radar capability and guided ammo. 184,000 rounds being sent for 90 howitzers.


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## Viet

PakFactor said:


> I'm applying the same logic the West uses in conflict in there "Total War" concept so this is nothing new. I don't get into caring about life we're way beyond that emotional point.
> What Putin is doing is wasting time, money and lives when he could just bomb it and free up men/women to position towards other fronts.


I don’t understand why the hatred towards Ukraine? What is the reason? Did they do something bad to you, to Russia, to anyone?
Putin wages a racial war of extermination. How can you support it?
The goal of Putin in Mariupol is obvious.

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## gambit

yuba said:


> I don't understand how people can be on Russia's side it invaded a sovereign nation is bombing residential homes. The brave Ukrainians are giving them a good fight and more power to them the comedian president could have gone to the west but chose to stay with his people.


People here support Russia/Poutine because they are anti-US/West, not because they have any ties to Russia.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517180840371007488

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## thetutle

letsrock said:


> When were ukrainian people colonized by russians ever ? Russia declares itself as multi national country with so many nationalities inside. Russians and Ukrainaians have always freely intermarried.


They are being colonised now. they were forced into a famine just before WW2 by the Russians. 
Thats major major oppression. Yes during USSR after WW2 Ukraine was not really colonised, they became a part of a pact of evil. And yes true, Ukranians live as free as ethnic Russians in Russia now, which not free at all. It's actually oppressive for everyone. 


letsrock said:


> you just cannot accept an "inferior" eastern country like Russia having a more say as opposed to western nazi whom you hold higher in racial totem pole. Thats all there is once stripped off all your word salad.


I am closer to a Russian than a German most likely, I love Russians. Also, Slavs and Germanics are very intermixed. Watch the new movie "Northman", more will be clear. One is not more superior than the other. Just that ones are better at building things and others are better at conquest. Slavs have much more land than Germanics. 

I want Russians to be free and live in freedom and prosperity. And to not invade their Brothers in Ukraine. And stay in their borders.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517100269900808192

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517172166059507715

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## letsrock

thetutle said:


> They are being colonised now. they were forced into a famine just before WW2 by the Russians.
> Thats major major oppression. Yes during USSR after WW2 Ukraine was not really colonised, they became a part of a pact of evil. And yes true, Ukranians live as free as ethnic Russians in Russia now, which not free at all. It's actually oppressive for everyone.
> 
> I am closer to a Russian than a German most likely, I love Russians. Also, Slavs and Germanics are very intermixed. Watch the new movie "Northman", more will be clear. One is not more superior than the other. Just that ones are better at building things and others are better at conquest. Slavs have much more land than Germanics.
> 
> I want Russians to be free and live in freedom and prosperity. And to not invade their Brothers in Ukraine. And stay in their borders.


Russians forced ukrainians in to a famine ? you fabricate a lot of things. i dont think you are telling the truth when you say you want them to be free and live in freedom and prosperity. If so you would have spoken about donbass and also treatment of ethnic russians in ukraine and minsk agreemnts which zelensky said "does not like a single word".
You may claim to be closer to rusisan or a german or some other fancy european you may want to identify but your comments suggest you are far from identifying with humanity in general.

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## zartosht

yuba said:


> I don't understand how people can be on Russia's side it invaded a sovereign nation is bombing residential homes. The brave Ukrainians are giving them a good fight and more power to them the comedian president could have gone to the west but chose to stay with his people.



I dont understand how anybody can be on the wests side. Or even defend this western dominated world order

The “west” and its delusional government/people have to get this ideology of them being the righteous messianic leaders of all mankind. And its their duty to police, and impose their way of life by force

The western imperial order is over. The US , their intelligence/ media can no longer dictate anything to anybody

Were living in an era of hypersonic missiles that can literally erase countries in minutss

The 19th 20th century colonial order is over. Euro sissies and the muricans need to get this thru their thick skulls

Their colonial era is over. Period. Start respecting other nations, stop threatning their security and live bd let live.

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## thetutle

letsrock said:


> what a load of garbage. So many words just to say " i identify as european white and i claim superiority to you and it sucks to be you ". And you think people cannot see through the sophistry.


No, not at all. 

What I struggle with is trying to understand why some people would support Russia in its colonial ambitions. Anyone with any humanity would not do this. 

But I see people who are possibly muslim or claim to be, who support the clear oppressor in this instance. 

I see this is as un-islamic and quite disturbing, and I suggest that the reason for this support they give russia is that they themselves are victims of colonialisation and don't understand or value the concept of freedom and democracy because its totally alien to them.

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## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> I've seen estimates of 750-1,200.


Didnt Ukraine have 2500+ tanks at the start?

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## zartosht

Finland is realllly playing with fire. With clothes salesman 30 something woman leading them to anahilation

Finland is close to the Russian heartlAnd of st.petersburg

The finns have come to almost. A 100 year understanding with Russia that allows them to peacefully co-exist. Despite finlands geography being an existential threat to Russia

I do not understNd why the clothes salesman being advised by the CIA thinks its jb finlands interest to break this peace and neutrality and go head first into conflixt with russia??

Finland will cease to exist as a nation state, before Russia allows it to become a threat to st.petersburg or host Nato trash on russian borders


The finns are too dumb to realize the fire they are playing with. Absolute gullible fools sacraficisng themselves for the muricans

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## letsrock

gambit said:


> People here support Russia/Poutine because they are anti-US/West, not because they have any ties to Russia.



Atleast in this forum i haven't seen anyone really anti-US . They are really about their country's interest and don't agree with us policies impacting them - like chinese regarding taiwan or sanctions on their companies because they trade with some iran or Pakistanis upset about drone attacks. That cannot be construed as inherently anti - us - and its dangerous way to characterize things and just inviting bad blood. i have rarely seen anyone atleast here wishing americans harm if they are minding their own thing in their own way with their own values.

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## Primus

zartosht said:


> Finland is realllly playing with fire. With clothes salesman 30 something woman leading them to anahilation
> 
> Finland is close to the Russian heartlAnd of st.petersburg
> 
> The finns have come to almost. A 100 year understanding with Russia that allows them to peacefully co-exist. Despite finlands geography being an existential threat to Russia
> 
> I do not understNd why the clothes salesman being advised by the CIA thinks its jb finlands interest to break this peace and neutrality and go head first into conflixt with russia??
> 
> Finland will cease to exist as a nation state, before Russia allows it to become a threat to st.petersburg or host Nato trash on russian borders
> 
> 
> The finns are too dumb to realize the fire they are playing with. Absolute gullible fools sacraficisng themselves for the muricans


Winter war?


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## zartosht

Huffal said:


> Winter war?



because 1930s USSR is relevant right? is that what the 30 year old cashier telling the finnish people ?

Hitler used the winter war as a stick measure of Soviet capabilities a mere 2 years later and launched operation barbarossa to capture Russia and colonize by emulating the British colonization of India.....

how did that work out for Hitler? 

This is what is called Delusion. And by the way, the Finns lost the war and ceded territory. And only survived as a nation state when they bent knee to the soviets to prevent an invasion when Nazi Germany had all but been defeated by 1944-45


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## thetutle

letsrock said:


> Nazis occupying you as a nation and forcing you to work in their factories at gun point is same as bosnians *individually *taking a decision to work in german factory for their personal benefit ?


This is ridiculous. No Bosnian was ever taken at gunpoint by the Nazis and forced to work in any Nazi factory. maybe some that ended up in Auscwitz because they were communists. the jews were unfortunately just shot locally. So many lies about WW2.

There were some that applied for work visas and got a job in some factory in Germany in WW2. It was not that unusual, only 20 years earlier we were a part of Austria and in WW2 Austria and germany were one country. Many Croatians did this. Tito worked all over Austria and Germany in his youth. 



letsrock said:


> People migrate to persian gulf too - in millions. There is no democracy there. it is a historical norm for people to migrate to wealtheir nations - you will see lot of american and british in dubai as well. There is no comparision of enslaving nations to individual decisions of migration.


yes. thats right. Russians should allow ukranins to work in Russia and get the hell out of Ukraine. 


letsrock said:


> I think you dont really understand west too. They wont take you in when it comes to them at a great cost.


thats sad. 


letsrock said:


> Anyway it appears you have no problem trading your independence as long as it is for proper race. You claim freedom and democracy as the reason but somehow i doubt it as you are willing even to join nazis


No we would chose freedom and democracy no matter what race offered it. If africans offered freedom and democracy and Europe offered enslavement we would join the African Union. 

In WW2 it was a choice between a Serbian pig farmer who was made king and Nazi Germany. Western liberal democracy was not a choice. and 99.99% of Bosnians would chose the choice they made. There are videos of German troops in WW2 in Sarajevo walking around taking pictures, drinking and dining and they aren't carrying any weapons. An occupying force with no weapons.



F-22Raptor said:


> Its almost certainly M777s. The Pentagon stated how it will provide a "significant" boost in Ukrainian firepower. And that has to be due to the counter-battery radar capability and guided ammo. 184,000 rounds being sent for 90 howitzers.


The guided ammo for the M777 is like $70,000 each. It seems too expensive and high tech. I wish to were true, but It seems very expensive. if its 184,000 rounds of that ammo, that amounts to probably 150,000 kills. Which would just be devastating to russia.


----------



## letsrock

thetutle said:


> No, not at all.
> 
> What I struggle with is trying to understand why some people would support Russia in its colonial ambitions. Anyone with any humanity would not do this.
> 
> But I see people who are possibly muslim or claim to be, who support the clear oppressor in this instance.
> 
> I see this is as un-islamic and quite disturbing, and I suggest that the reason for this support they give russia is that they themselves are victims of colonialisation and don't understand or value the concept of freedom and democracy because its totally alien to them.


I don't know how anyone can say with straight face that victims of colonization don't value freedom. its basically saying they are subhuman - in fact the language you used before is they like to be on their knee pads or something.

Saying Russia has colonial ambitions is just not true. And your characterization of second world war is just a tosh of lies.
Right now i was readin this on wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoya_Kosmodemyanskaya . And apparently ukrainians recently have demolished her statue in ukraine.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

thetutle said:


> This is ridiculous. No Bosnian was ever taken at gunpoint by the Nazis and forced to work in any Nazi factory. maybe some that ended up in Auscwitz because they were communists. the jews were unfortunately just shot locally. So many lies about WW2.
> 
> There were some that applied for work visas and got a job in some factory in Germany in WW2. It was not that unusual, only 20 years earlier we were a part of Austria and in WW2 Austria and germany were one country. Many Croatians did this. Tito worked all over Austria and Germany in his youth.
> 
> 
> yes. thats right. Russians should allow ukranins to work in Russia and get the hell out of Ukraine.
> 
> thats sad.
> 
> No we would chose freedom and democracy no matter what race offered it. If africans offered freedom and democracy and Europe offered enslavement we would join the African Union.
> 
> In WW2 it was a choice between a Serbian pig farmer who was made king and Nazi Germany. Western liberal democracy was not a choice. and 99.99% of Bosnians would chose the choice they made. There are videos of German troops in WW2 in Sarajevo walking around taking pictures, drinking and dining and they aren't carrying any weapons. An occupying force with no weapons.
> 
> 
> The guided ammo for the M777 is like $70,000 each. It seems too expensive and high tech. I wish to were true, but It seems very expensive. if its 184,000 rounds of that ammo, that amounts to probably 150,000 kills. Which would just be devastating to russia.




Ukrainian artillery has been very effective. Guided ammo is bad news for Russia.


----------



## thetutle

letsrock said:


> Russians forced ukrainians in to a famine ? you fabricate a lot of things. i dont think you are telling the truth when you say you want them to be free and live in freedom and prosperity. If so you would have spoken about donbass and also treatment of ethnic russians in ukraine and minsk agreemnts which zelensky said "does not like a single word".
> You may claim to be closer to rusisan or a german or some other fancy european you may want to identify but your comments suggest you are far from identifying with humanity in general.


I am a slavic person, I identify with Russians. I understand these people if they speak slowly. I love and admire Russians. I listen to Russian songs, read Russian novels. Of course I want them to be free and prosperous. I don't want slavs to be considered barbarians of europe one again like in the Cold War. 

What Russia is doing is heartbreaking. It will destroy russia. 

Russians in Ukraine have all the rights they could ever have. this rest is lies. 

Just today I was watching Serbian TV, I can post the link, they talk about serbs in urkine how they have lived there for years speaking only Russian. and noone would look at them in a bad way. This is Serbian TV debunking Russian lies. 

what's your ethnicity?



zartosht said:


> This is what is called Delusion. And by the way, the Finns lost the war and ceded territory. And only survived as a nation state when they bent knee to the soviets to prevent an invasion when Nazi Germany had all but been defeated by 1944-45


Yeah, the finns are about to get up off their knees and Stand up. Its been a long time coming.


----------



## thetutle

letsrock said:


> Saying Russia has colonial ambitions is just not true. And your characterization of second world war is just a tosh of lies.
> Right now i was readin this on wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoya_Kosmodemyanskaya . And apparently ukrainians recently have demolished her statue in ukraine.


This lady is just a soviet terrorist and it is not surprising they are putting her statue in the bin. The Ukranians know very well that Soviets killed more of them than the Nazi's ever did. 

Beleive it or not, there was oppression so bad in europe that nazis looked like saviours. Ukraine was one such place. Ukrainsis had enough of starvation and 20 million dead in Russian/communist imposed famine.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517187794527043585

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## letsrock

thetutle said:


> I am a slavic person, I identify with Russians. I understand these people if they speak slowly. I love and admire Russians. I listen to Russian songs, read Russian novels. Of course I want them to be free and prosperous. I don't want slavs to be considered barbarians of europe one again like in the Cold War.
> 
> What Russia is doing is heartbreaking. It will destroy russia.
> 
> Russians in Ukraine have all the rights they could ever have. this rest is lies.
> 
> Just today I was watching Serbian TV, I can post the link, they talk about serbs in urkine how they have lived there for years speaking only Russian. and noone would look at them in a bad way. This is Serbian TV debunking Russian lies.
> 
> what's your ethnicity?



i dont know you at a personal level at all and i dont need to. Claiming credibility on your behalf by basing it on your ethnicity claims (which have been all over the place) is not going to gain any favor from me. If indeed your source of credibility is being a Slav why should i not go with Putin the biggest and most powerful Slav out there.

The only thing that matters here for discussion is whether you are narrating facts or not and whether your points are based on common human morality.

Infact what attracted me to your posts are constant disparaging of others and glorification of nazis (which is actually a crime in several countries) not so much anything to do with your claimed bosian origins and german and russian relations.

how do you explain Ukraine making ukrainian as the state language at all levels (even in provinces where russian is majority) in 2014 itself - where even the council of Europe had to express regrets. Oh yes your explanation is "its all lies".


----------



## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517187794527043585


These accidents happen all the time. noone is to blame. sometimes wires get short circuited. Sometimes military grade C4, you know the type you can purchase at any army surplus store gets misplaced and detonates inside an industrial complex near your capital city. 

Its quite normal and nothing to worry about.


----------



## letsrock

thetutle said:


> This lady is just a soviet terrorist and it is not surprising they are putting her statue in the bin. The Ukranians know very well that Soviets killed more of them than the Nazi's ever did.
> 
> Beleive it or not, there was oppression so bad in europe that nazis looked like saviours. Ukraine was one such place. Ukrainsis had enough of starvation and 20 million dead in Russian/communist imposed famine.


An 18 year old partisan is a terrorist? and nazis are carrying out justice in Russia ? she was murdered by nazis in moscow oblast - her own country - not in berlin. Are you saying an 18 year old murdered in her own country by an occupying regime is a terrorist because she resisted it?. And i am supposed to agree with you and not be revolted by your thoughts because oh you are slav and therefore what you say is true.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517198637138432003

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517200726283403266


----------



## oberschlesier

letsrock said:


> how do you explain Ukraine making ukrainian as the state language at all levels (even in provinces where russian is majority) in 2014 itself - where even the council of Europe had to express regrets. Oh yes your explanation is "its all lies".


Are you serious ? After Crimeria, they kinda got pissed on Russia and the country is named "Ukraine", so they promote ukrainian as the main Language. Russian was not banned or something. Well, the Ukrainian president is Russian btw  The Russians just cannot get over it, that Ukraine is a seperate state, they called them "nazi", invent nonsense, started this war, but just don`t want to accept them.

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## thetutle

letsrock said:


> Infact what attracted me to your posts are constant disparaging of others and glorification of nazis (which is actually a crime in several countries) not so much anything to do with your claimed bosian origins and german and russian relations.


I was trying to find out what ethnic group you are to see the motivation behind your convictions. everyone has an agenda that supports russia. From Greeks trying to get back Istanbul to the long suffering Iranins who just want others to suffer too. 

I dont glorify Nazis, they were monsters and the world would be a much worse place if they won. (expect for Bosnians who would end up in German factories anyway). 

But its a historical fact that the Soviets were a much greater murderous evil. And the British colonial establishment was not that far behind Nazis. Churchill being the worst racist and responsible probably single handedly for the Cold War. And for starting WW2. Yes Churchill started WW2. (if he wanted to save Poland why didn't the attack the USSR as well?)

The fact remains that a Black man in 1939 could go to a restaurant in Berlin near the reichstag and have a dinner and a few drinks. The same black man could not enter a restaurant in Washington near the White House in 1939 or 1949 or 1959. 

It's pretty funny and sad. And I will say this in Germany, in Austria or anywhere else (expect russia) and if they want to jail me thats fine.



letsrock said:


> An 18 year old partisan is a terrorist? and nazis are carrying out justice in Russia ? she was murdered by nazis in moscow oblast - her own country - not in berlin. Are you saying an 18 year old murdered in her own country by an occupying regime is a terrorist because she resisted it?. And i am supposed to agree with you and not be revolted by your thoughts because oh you are slav and therefore what you say is true.


So what connection does she have with Ukraine? None, thats why her statue is in a bin.


----------



## Ich

oberschlesier said:


> Are serious ? After Crimeria, they kinda got pissed on the Russia and the country is named "Ukraine", so they promote ukrainian as the main Language. Russian was not baned or something. Well, the Ukrainian president is Russian btw  The Russians just cannot get over it, that Ukraine is a seperate state, so they called them "nazi".



Russian speaking ukrainian people were killed bei Ukrains...in the thousands. Just stopp spreading lies.

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## Ali_Baba

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516771300081115140



Would they not need approval from Israel given they upgraded with with IAI/Elbit tech ?


----------



## oberschlesier

Ich said:


> Russian speaking ukrainian people where killed bei Ukrains...in the thousands. Just stopp spreading lies.


More likely Russian speaking Ukrainins were ( and are ) killing other Russian speaking Ukrainians in thousands. Is there a logic to this ? Nope.


----------



## thetutle

oberschlesier said:


> More likely Russian speaking Ukrainins were ( and are ) killing other Russian speaking Ukrainians in thousands. Is there a logic to this ? Nope.


Russian speaking ukranian is the president of Ukraine. lol


----------



## letsrock

thetutle said:


> I was trying to find out what ethnic group you are to see the motivation behind your convictions. everyone has an agenda that supports russia. From Greeks trying to get back Istanbul to the long suffering Iranins who just want others to suffer too.
> 
> I dont glorify Nazis, they were monsters and the world would be a much worse place if they won. (expect for Bosnians who would end up in German factories anyway).
> 
> But its a historical fact that the Soviets were a much greater murderous evil. And the British colonial establishment was not that far behind Nazis. Churchill being the worst racist and responsible probably single handedly for the Cold War. And for starting WW2. Yes Churchill started WW2. (if he wanted to save Poland why didn't the attack the USSR as well?)
> 
> The fact remains that a Black man in 1939 could go to a restaurant in Berlin near the reichstag and have a dinner and a few drinks. The same black man could not enter a restaurant in Washington near the White House in 1939 or 1949 or 1959.
> 
> It's pretty funny and sad. And I will say this in Germany, in Austria or anywhere else (expect russia) and if they want to jail me thats fine.
> 
> 
> So what connection does she have with Ukraine? None, thats why her statue is in a bin.


I am not supporting Russia at all and was taken aback when they launched the war. And i dont support wars and neither do i support oppression in the name of national sovereignty or whatever Ukraine is doing right now . At the same time i don't have any antipathy to Russia per se based on history. I am just trying to understand the situation and i am being reactive to your posts. . And yes i am little sensitive to nazi glorification .

i dont agree with your views on soviet famine - especially the way you are fabricating it. Millions suffered in us during great depression and a million died during latest covid epidemic. But its not right to say regime murdered them.

You adopted neutral tone now regarding the girl but previously you called her terrorist which is what made me respond.

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## WotTen

thetutle said:


> very true, I will note that most of the supporters of this living on your knees are originally from countries that were recently colonised. The Somalian fellow, some Chinese, some Arabs, some others, where perhaps being colonised is the norm.



Most of the supporters of Russia are from countries which have been attacked and devastated by US and NATO. The support for Russia is not for Russia, it's against America and NATO.

The US has removed democratically elected governments in several countries by hiring corrupt politicians, media, and flat out thugs. The people in those countries are less than impressed by America's democratic credentials.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517152964355403777



I feel bad for the Ukrainians. It's like throwing nickels at a beggar while flashing 100 dollar notes in your wallet out of his reach.

The US has the world's most advanced weapons but is not giving them to Ukraine.


----------



## thetutle

letsrock said:


> I am not supporting Russia at all and was taken aback when they launched the war. And i dont support wars and neither do i support oppression in the name of national sovereignty or whatever Ukraine is doing right now . At the same time i don't have any antipathy to Russia per se based on history. I am just trying to understand the situation and i am being reactive to your posts. . And yes i am little sensitive to nazi glorification .
> 
> i dont agree with your views on soviet famine - especially the way you are fabricating it. Millions suffered in us during great depression and a million died during latest covid epidemic. But its not right to say regime murdered them.
> 
> You adopted neutral tone now regarding the girl but previously you called her terrorist which is what made me respond.


Trying to understand the situation? lol, yeah. right. its so unclear who is at fault. 

that lady, she belonged to a communist organisation which just killed a royal family and instituted a reign of terror in Russia. Then She sabotages things in German occupied russia, probably wearing no insignia, she is by all definitions a terrorist most likely if I ever gave her any thought. and I wont give her any thought. She now goes into the bin in Ukraine. Dasvidanye.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

The resilient DNR battalion that is nicknamed "Somalia" is victoriously marching through the Donetsk, and the people are welcoming them with flowers.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517152857299906560


----------



## thetutle

WotTen said:


> Most of the supporters of Russia are from countries which have been attacked and devastated by US and NATO. The support for Russia is not for Russia, it's against America and NATO.
> 
> The US has removed democratically elected governments in several countries by hiring corrupt politicians, media, and flat out thugs. The people in those countries are less than impressed by America's democratic credentials.


understandably. But such people are not principled. they are just bitter bad things happened to them and dont give a damn about others. 

Such people have no problem if these evils are imposed on others. they just dont want it to happen to them. I'm unimpressed by such people. and maybe this misfortune is imposed upon them by God for a reason.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The resilient DNR battalion that is nicknamed "Somalia" is victoriously marching through the Donetsk, and the people are welcoming them with flowers.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517152857299906560


Everyone of these soldiers is white. the Chechens and asiatic and kavkaz people get to play in the ukranian mud taking Ukranian 155mm shells. And these guys get to look pretty on parades. Nice.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517140685039628289


----------



## WotTen

letsrock said:


> Russians forced ukrainians in to a famine ?



Just looking at objective facts, it is clear that almost all the Soviet block countries (at least in Europe) hate Russia and want to be with the West. Whether it is for ideological or economic reasons is up for debate, but it is undeniable that they want to join with EU not Russia.


----------



## RoadAmerica

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> When even Israel a US ally is beginning to feel uncomfortable, we know where the world is heading.
> 
> Israel Adds Yuan to $206 Billion Reserves in ‘Philosophy’ Change​
> Canadian, Australian, Japanese currencies also added to basket
> Bank of Israel is moving to *reduce* allocation for *dollar, euro*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Central Bank of Israel in Jerusalem, Israel.
> Photographer: Kobi Wolf/Bloomberg
> By
> Daniel Avis
> +Follow
> April 20, 2022, 5:38 PM GMT+8
> 
> I already did. It is hardly my problem if one can't comprehend it. Others do.
> 
> This being an exception as I don't normally respond to trolls.
> 
> This is not an assumption as you believe.
> This is indeed a smart move by the Israel Central Banker and they did it out of strategic interest. It will safeguard them just in case.
> 
> The precedence set by the US and EU is dangerous and the sword cuts both ways. Switzerland sanction against Russia lasted only 2 days.
> 
> This shows how little you understands about geopolitics.
> 
> 
> 
> For instance, do you understand why Israel did not vote against Russia at the UN?


Still haven’t answered my original question, where are you from? Third times a charm.


----------



## RoadAmerica

zartosht said:


> I dont understand how anybody can be on the wests side. Or even defend this western dominated world order
> 
> The “west” and its delusional government/people have to get this ideology of them being the righteous messianic leaders of all mankind. And its their duty to police, and impose their way of life by force
> 
> The western imperial order is over. The US , their intelligence/ media can no longer dictate anything to anybody
> 
> Were living in an era of hypersonic missiles that can literally erase countries in minutss
> 
> The 19th 20th century colonial order is over. Euro sissies and the muricans need to get this thru their thick skulls
> 
> Their colonial era is over. Period. Start respecting other nations, stop threatning their security and live bd let live.


That’s a lot of anger there bud. Eta is over 🤣
I’m living just fine in the west thanks.


----------



## oberschlesier

WotTen said:


> Just looking at objective facts, it is clear that almost all the Soviet block countries (at least in Europe) hate Russia and want to be with the West.


True. Funny fact is, that this is mostly caused by Russian behaviour and policy. The war in Ukraine is just another act of the same old story.



WotTen said:


> Whether it is for ideological or economic reasons is up for debate,


Both. Poland, Czechia or Hungary are culturally Western since more than 1000+ years. Soviet block times were an anomaly. Economically EU has much more to offer and has a positive ideology.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517230408512983040


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

letsrock said:


> what a load of garbage. So many words just to say " i identify as european white and i claim superiority to you and it sucks to be you ". And you think people cannot see through the sophistry.
> 
> When were ukrainian people colonized by russians ever ? Russia declares itself as multi national country with so many nationalities inside. Russians and Ukrainaians have always freely intermarried.
> 
> you just cannot accept an "inferior" eastern country like Russia having a more say as opposed to western nazi whom you hold higher in racial totem pole. Thats all there is once stripped off all your word salad.




He is a Bosnian "Muslim" guy whose people were massacred in the 1990s by the Serbs who are Orthodox Christians. They lost over 200,000 people, but he downplays it though  He opposes Russia because being a mostly Orthodox Christian country, he is associating his ordeal with the Serbs to the Russians. It is dumb association though. That is everything you need to understand about his nonsense. He wont say it, but it is pretty obvious.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517203656579649536

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517224727240130565

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517132085173137408

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517233086945243138

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517233877332410374

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517234557912862720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517238738073628672

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517130432902533120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517237726503919617

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517203656579649536


What is the count of Ukrainian tanks? Russia is estimated to have up to 3000 tanks that can be pressed into service at maximum. 🤔


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Spoiler: Extremely Graphic: Dead Ukrainian Forces and Foreign Mercenaries are included it in this tweet. Don't open it if you're faint-hearted.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517207613791944704


----------



## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Spoiler: Extremely Graphic: Dead Ukrainian Forces and Foreign Mercenaries are included. Don't open it if you're faint-hearted.[MEDIA=twitter
> 
> 
> 
> 1517207613791944704[/MEDIA]




They’ll be remembered as hero’s for eternity while the Russians will be remembered as Nazi war criminals.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Dalit

The Russians


F-22Raptor said:


> They’ll be remembered as hero’s for eternity while the Russians will be remembered as Nazi war criminals.



These aren't hero's. Just cannon fodder.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517233926254772225

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517232456826503170


Dalit said:


> The Russians
> 
> 
> These aren't hero's. Just cannon fodder.




Their hero’s defending their homeland from the Russian Nazis. It’s that simple

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517233926254772225
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517232456826503170
> 
> 
> 
> Their hero’s defending their homeland from the Russian Nazis. It’s that simple



You are really kidding yourself. LOL at drones.

Fact is that whatever the US and its poodles have provided to Ukraine has been a straight mockery. The Russians are mincemeating the Ukrainians.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517229372343730177
Large strike against a Russian convoy


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

thetutle said:


> understandably. But such people are not principled. they are just bitter bad things happened to them and dont give a damn about others.
> 
> Such people have no problem if these evils are imposed on others. they just dont want it to happen to them. I'm unimpressed by such people. and maybe this misfortune is imposed upon them by God for a reason.
> 
> 
> Everyone of these soldiers is white. the Chechens and asiatic and kavkaz people get to play in the ukranian mud taking Ukranian 155mm shells. And these guys get to look pretty on parades. Nice.



Who cares if they're white or not even though being "white" didn't help you in the 1990s when you were led to the slaughterhouse as lambs. It was darn pretty bad. I used to join your demonstrations and remember your cries when your fellow Slavs were massacring you and the West had an arms embargo on you. Being "whitey" was no use to you back then, but sometimes the abused fall in love with their abusers. I could see your ordeal!

Paradise? You're now claiming paradise from others? You're grasping with straws. Weak.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Spoiler: Extremely Graphic: Dead Ukrainian Forces and Foreign Mercenaries are included it in this tweet. Don't open it if you're faint-hearted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517207613791944704



Whatever, man.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517160140620722176


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517190422933782528


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517237893986721793


----------



## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517160140620722176


That makes it 2x Mi8, 1 x Su34 and 1x ka-52 Russian aviation units today alone..

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Soldier35

Tankers under fire were able to evacuate a padded Russian armored personnel carrier. A Russian armored personnel carrier was hit in the turret by an RPG shot from the APU fighters, who sat in the nearest five-story building. The crew evacuated and called for help, the Ukrainian military tried to finish off the armored personnel carrier and fired a second shot, the vehicle withstood the blow and did not catch fire. Despite the heavy fire, risking his life, one of the fighters hitched a wrecked armored personnel carrier to an approaching tank and the car was taken in tow.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517241367528882178

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517117464320122882


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517237131827159043

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517237133303549954

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517082791334354945


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517241580821925888

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Piotr

Dalit said:


> You are really kidding yourself. LOL at drones.
> 
> Fact is that whatever the US and its poodles have provided to Ukraine has been a straight mockery. The Russians are mincemeating the Ukrainians.



Russia is clearly wining, but at the same time Russia does not want to kill many Ukrainian soldiers.
Ukrops Tried To Flee Mariupol Without Surrendering - Shot In Legs To Stop Them​They tried to flee and refused to surrender, so instead of shooting to kill them, the DPR forces shot their legs to stop them.



Spoiler: Graphic












Ukrops Tried To Flee Mariupol Without Surrendering - Shot In Legs To Stop Them


They tried to flee and refused to surrender, so instead of shooting to kill them, the DPR forces shot their legs to stop them.




www.bitchute.com








Russia is not fighting against the Ukraine but against US founded Nazis like Azov Badnerites.

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## Dalit

Piotr said:


> Russia is clearly wining, but at the same time Russia does not want to kill many Ukrainian soldiers.
> Ukrops Tried To Flee Mariupol Without Surrendering - Shot In Legs To Stop Them​They tried to flee and refused to surrender, so instead of shooting to kill them, the DPR forces shot their legs to stop them.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrops Tried To Flee Mariupol Without Surrendering - Shot In Legs To Stop Them
> 
> 
> They tried to flee and refused to surrender, so instead of shooting to kill them, the DPR forces shot their legs to stop them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bitchute.com



Russia is decimating inch by inch. Little by little every major city will be in Russian hands.

The weapons that the US and European countries are providing to Ukraine are laughable. The Ukrainians have been left to fend for themselves. I can see parallels with the Kurds.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517220465621803009

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517243646072045569


----------



## Piotr

Dalit said:


> Russia is decimating inch by inch.



That's right. Russia does not want to lose a lot of soldiers.



Dalit said:


> Little by little every major city will be in Russian hands.



I don't think Russia is interested in western part of the former Ukraine. I don't think Russia is even interested in Kiev.

Vast majority of people in Crimea saw Russian forces as liberators. In Lvov many if not most of the people would see Russian forces as occupiers.
Ukraine is indeed a cleft country.



Dalit said:


> The Ukrainians have been left to fend for themselves. I can see parallels with the Kurds.



Parallels are aplenty: Kurds, US-founded regime in Saigon, US-founded regime in Kabul, etc.

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## oberschlesier

Piotr said:


> Russia is clearly wining, but at the same time Russia does not want to kill many Ukrainian soldiers.
> Ukrops Tried To Flee Mariupol Without Surrendering - Shot In Legs To Stop Them​They tried to flee and refused to surrender, so instead of shooting to kill them, the DPR forces shot their legs to stop them.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrops Tried To Flee Mariupol Without Surrendering - Shot In Legs To Stop Them
> 
> 
> They tried to flee and refused to surrender, so instead of shooting to kill them, the DPR forces shot their legs to stop them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bitchute.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia is not fighting against the Ukraine but against US founded Nazis like Azov Badnerites.


What are they winning?


----------



## Piotr

oberschlesier said:


> What are they winning?



Ongoing conflict with the USA.


----------



## oberschlesier

Piotr said:


> Ongoing conflict with the USA.


What did Russia achieve since the beginning of this conflict ?

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## Piotr

oberschlesier said:


> What did Russia achieve since the beginning of this conflict ?



-Protection of Donbass. Zelensky (USA) wanted to start offensive against Donbass in early March.
-Demilitarization of the Ukraine. Most of military factories in the Ukraine are destroyed.

Last but not least it's not Russia that wanted this conflict. For many years Russia recognized Donbass as part of the Ukraine and only demanded implementation of Minsk Agreements (regime in Kiev itself signed). Regime in Kiev refused so Russia has no other choice but to start Special Military Operation.

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## BHAN85

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517220465621803009


Nobody has ask us if we want to face a nuclear power like Russia and be in mortal danger of nuclear extermination.

That's what our hypocrytes leaders call democracy.

Anyway, that's the same, because most of people here are brainwashed by massmedia and they support sending weapons to fight a nuclear power like Russia.

It's what happen when all the massmedia repeat the same lies, and alternative Russian media is banned.

Enjoying western democracy and freedom in this issue .

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## oberschlesier

Piotr said:


> -Protection of Donbass. Zelensky (USA) wanted to start offensive against Donbass in early March.
> -Demilitarization of the Ukraine. Most of military factories in the Ukraine are destroyed.
> 
> Last but not least it's not Russia that wanted this conflict. For many years Russia recognized Donbass as part of the Ukraine and only demanded implementation of Minsk Agreements (regime in Kiev itself signed). Regime in Kiev refused so Russia has no other choice but to start Special Military Operation.


Donbass is scorched land now. Ukraine is being rearmed by the West. 
NATO will expand, more economical and military pressure will be put on Russia, Ukrainins will hate Russian for Generations. I cannot see any long term benefits here.

btw Zelensky is a Russian, he does not even speak well Ukrainian

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## Piotr

oberschlesier said:


> Donbass is scorched land now. Ukraine is being rearmed by the West.
> NATO will expand, more economical and military pressure will be put on Russia, Ukrainins will hate Russian for Generations. I cannot see any long term benefits here.
> 
> btw Zelensky is a Russian, he does not even speak well Ukrainian



Donbass is scorched because of Kiev (USA) shelling. Donbass would be even more scorched without protection of Russia. Russia stoped Zelensky (USA) genocide of Donbass.

Zelensky is not Russian.

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## oberschlesier

BHAN85 said:


> Nobody has ask us if we want to face a nuclear power like Russia and be in mortal danger of nuclear extermination.
> 
> That's what our hypocrytes leaders call democracy.
> 
> Anyway, that's the same, because most of people here are brainwashed by massmedia and they support sending weapons to fight a nuclear power like Russia.
> 
> It's what happen when all the massmedia repeat the same lies, and alternative Russian media is banned.
> 
> Enjoying western democracy and freedom in this issue .


Don`t be afraid 



Piotr said:


> Donbass is scorched because of Kiev (USA) shelling. Donbass would be even more scorched without protection of Russia. Russia stoped Zelensky (USA) genocide of Donbass.
> 
> Zelensky is not Russian.



Donbass is scorched and it`s a Russian Problem, hardly a gain. 
Zelensky is a Russian speaking Ukrainian, according to Russia, he is Russian.

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## Piotr

oberschlesier said:


> Don`t be afraid
> 
> 
> 
> Donbass is scorched and it`s a Russian Problem, hardly a gain.
> Zelensky is a Russian speaking Ukrainian, according to Russia, he is Russian.



AFAIK Zelensky is Jewish.

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## oberschlesier

Piotr said:


> AFAIK Zelensky is Jewish.


Had Jewish grandparents AFAIK. So he is a Russian speaking Ukrainian with Jewish roots.


----------



## Foinikas

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> He is a Bosnian "Muslim" guy whose people were massacred in the 1990s by the Serbs who are Orthodox Christians. They lost over 200,000 people, but he downplays it though  He opposes Russia because being a mostly Orthodox Christian country, he is associating his ordeal with the Serbs to the Russians. It is dumb association though. That is everything you need to understand about his nonsense. He wont say it, but it is pretty obvious.


The real estimates are about 80,000-100,000 in the entire war and that includes military and civilians killed not only by Serbs,but also by Croats.

He despises Russia for the reason you said and will reject anything coming from an Orthodox country as lies.

Meanwhile,the masses of muslim posters here fanatically believe the American stories about Bosnia and Kosovo just because "muh brother Muslims are killed by evil kuffar" and don't stop to think for a second "wait a minute,why are the Americans with a zionist jewish cabinet suddenly support Muslims?"

But only a few have actually searched about these wars and found out how much the West lied to portray the Serbs as vicious monsters,just like they did with various kinds of Muslims later and exactly like they do with the Russians now.

The key words constantly repeated are "genocide" and "ethnic cleansing". With numbers of dead often hastily announced by Western media and without waiting to see who did what.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Foinikas said:


> The real estimates are about 80,000-100,000 in the entire war and that includes military and civilians killed not only by Serbs,but also by Croats.
> 
> He despises Russia for the reason you said and will reject anything coming from an Orthodox country as lies.
> 
> Meanwhile,the masses of muslim posters here fanatically believe the American stories about Bosnia and Kosovo just because "muh brother Muslims are killed by evil kuffar" and don't stop to think for a second "wait a minute,why are the Americans with a zionist jewish cabinet suddenly support Muslims?"
> 
> But only a few have actually searched about these wars and found out how much the West lied to portray the Serbs as vicious monsters,just like they did with various kinds of Muslims later and exactly like they do with the Russians now.
> 
> The key words constantly repeated are "genocide" and "ethnic cleansing". With numbers of dead often hastily announced by Western media and without waiting to see who did what.



I want to be honest: I heard the 200,000 figure from Western media. Thank you for bringing the exaggerated figure to light. 👍


One of the main reasons why I hold the views that I hold now is because I understood the game they play. The West is run by a hidden cabal who are waiting for a figure they call the "Anointed One". *He is the Antichrist*. They want to make sure they dominate every country on earth before his imminence, and it seems Russia is a major obstacle to their project. That is what we need to understand about the war that is currently waged on Russia and any nation who is allied to them.

The wars against Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Iran, Somalia, Yemen, Venezuela, Cuba, Russia, DPRK and others should all be seen in that context.


----------



## Foinikas

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I want to be honest: I heard the 200,000 figure from Western media. Thank you for bringing the exaggerated figure to light. 👍👍


Check the documentaries "Yugoslavia the Avoidable War" and "Srebrenica A Town Betrayed".

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517230408512983040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517263274991140864


----------



## F-22Raptor

Piotr said:


> Russia is clearly wining, but at the same time Russia does not want to kill many Ukrainian soldiers.
> Ukrops Tried To Flee Mariupol Without Surrendering - Shot In Legs To Stop Them​They tried to flee and refused to surrender, so instead of shooting to kill them, the DPR forces shot their legs to stop them.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrops Tried To Flee Mariupol Without Surrendering - Shot In Legs To Stop Them
> 
> 
> They tried to flee and refused to surrender, so instead of shooting to kill them, the DPR forces shot their legs to stop them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bitchute.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia is not fighting against the Ukraine but against US founded Nazis like Azov Badnerites.





Dalit said:


> Russia is decimating inch by inch. Little by little every major city will be in Russian hands.
> 
> The weapons that the US and European countries are providing to Ukraine are laughable. The Ukrainians have been left to fend for themselves. I can see parallels with the Kurds.



Russia has already strategically lost and their forces continue to get attrited.

Russia has lost. They are in a significantly worse position than they were 2-3 months ago.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517260207520468997


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517222331525091328
Ethnic Russian population is too old to fight 🤔


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517182687991287808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517237726503919617

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517092119621558273


Spoiler: GRAPHIC 18+: Dead Nazis put down by the victorious Chechens





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516874126039867402




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517094149761253376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517252667239813122

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes



Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

Zelenskyy Wanted Nuclear Weapons, India Old Friend & Strategic Partner | Sergey Lavrov EXCLUSIVE​


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517203656579649536

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517242932507594753

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517239093503143936

*Russia closes consulates of the Baltic states and declares all its employees persona non grata*

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/04/21/russia-closes-baltic-consulates-expels-staff-a77441

Reactions: Love Love:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517007534128775168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517063691488960515

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517226225764347905

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517220974252412934


----------



## The SC

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517203656579649536


Did these guys knew that Russia had fielded 40 000 tanks against Hitler in WW2..

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517241609536118785







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517208500757307393


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

No group of people is more motivated than the DPR, LNR, and the Chechens. Their performance in this war is remarkable.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516800807919828999


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517202939089231873

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CAPRICORN-88

RoadAmerica said:


> Still haven’t answered my original question, where are you from? Third times a charm.


Are you high on grass? 
All your irrelevant question already attended to.
Brush up your English Comprehension.
This is the 3rd time. 
Stop trolling.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517195873255497728


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Are you high on grass?
> All your irrelevant question already attended to.
> Brush up your English Comprehension.
> This is the 3rd time.
> Stop trolling.


What original question?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517136570607804418


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517198384838361088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517197113599348736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517196662346817539

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517139029661143040

Reactions: Love Love:
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## CAPRICORN-88

General Sergei Shoigu was seen in this latest briefing to Putin.
Earlier the US and Western Press reported General Sergei has vanished, removed and executed by Putin for disagreeing with Putin.
Strangely he suddenly reappeared again like the rest of those generals reportedly killed. 

Putin told him,it is useless to storm Mariupol wasting military resources, risking the lives of Russian serviceman but instead to continue with the encirclement of Azovstal Steelwork until all of them surrender.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516754319667834881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516897208251080704

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517070935815495681

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516913403494813696

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## CAPRICORN-88

Meanwhile there are signs of growing unrests in EU and UK due to the economic crisis over high cost of living due to high inflation.

Boris Johnson and Olaf Scholtz have been singled out as likely to face new political pressure and crisis soon as they lose supports.

Both the British and German Militaries are against supplying arms to Ukraine but are override by these politicians.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516898003814076417


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517072369621295105

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517287262177869829

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516868696647606273
"Night Wolves" checked the road from Kremennaya to Rubizhnoye.\


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516865270979207168


----------



## Beast

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517287262177869829


Seems like learning from Chinese civil war tactics.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516859161153355780

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517253374596550656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517260241154588672

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517306248353431552


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

*Zalensky is demanding for a donation of USD50 billion from the G7 nations failing which he said, Ukraine will go bankrupt.*

Meanwhile *G20 meeting carried on *without the gang of 7 in Indonesia after they walked out behaving like children in tantrum.

What a shame after dictating conditions and having insulted the chair today - Indonesia?

These rich and powerful G7 are behaving as though the rest of G20 are slave nations. Get real.

This is 2022 not 1980 where they can simply snap their finger and get whatever they want.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517245034453782534

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517235495964663811

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517190867626434566

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517189139631771648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517190003050393601

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517190333708259330


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516826904287981569








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517161658887647233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517084190906458112

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## BHAN85

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> General Sergei Shoigu was seen in this latest briefing to Putin.
> Earlier the US and Western Press reported General Sergei has vanished, removed and executed by Putin for disagreeing with Putin.
> Straightly he reappeared again like the rest of those generals reportedly killed.
> 
> Putin told him,it is useless to storm Mariupol wasting military resources, risking the lives of Russian serviceman but instead to continue with the encirclement of Azovstal Steelwork until all of them surrender.


I saw fake news about Shoigu in mainstream Western newspapers.
Ridiculous the level of lies of Western mainstream press about Russia.

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## The SC

surprise

change of "philosophy"

Bank of Israel moves to cut dollar and euro allocations
Israel adds yuan valued at $206 billion in reserves
Canadian and Australian currencies are also added to the basket

https://www.businessinsider.in/stoc...eshuffle-in-a-decade/articleshow/90963017.cms

Diversifying the currency basket is a good thing, even if it has a sica risk
The idea that Israel is doing it too soon is a surprise and an unpleasant indicator for the dollar and the euro.. Don't forget that the Jews are professionals in the financial markets, and they have analysts who have a say about this matter..

They are always ahead in the economy,, And look for economic security and the places from where they earn most .. And for this step to come from them first, it will certainly encourage many strong countries to do the same..



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517303551571247105


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517331034639065088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517331306409046016

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517331866746974209

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517331034639065088
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517331306409046016
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517331866746974209


Putin's victory parade is not going to be all smiles


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517291870749179904


----------



## F-22Raptor

If the Ukrainians are getting M777s with digital fire controls, and Excalibur rounds that can be fired in excess of 40km with less than 10m CEPs, a lot of Russian soldiers are going to die.

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## The SC

The thing is that even controlling Mariupol or Donbass does not mean anything, and it will not be considered a victory after two months of battles if the Russians were not able to control Odessa.

As for Ukraine, it is the loser in any case. It was one of the countries with a high rate of corruption, according to various sources, but It was a beautiful country with industries, factories, and ports. It was a destination for university students.. And Who would help them now rebuild what will be left of the country after the war ends.. most EU countries and the US have financial problems and high rates of inflation as it is going now.. too bad but it is the reality of the hour,,


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517287184717463553
China, Russia Stand Firm In ‘New, Fair, Multipolar World Order’​https://www.china-briefing.com/news/china-russia-stand-firm-in-new-fair-multipolar-world-order/

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517287362924978176

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## Indos

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *Zalensky is demanding for a donation of USD50 billion from the G7 nations failing which he said, Ukraine will go bankrupt.*
> 
> Meanwhile *G20 meeting carried on *without the gang of 7 in Indonesia after they walked out behaving like childrens in trantum.
> 
> What a shame after dictating conditions and having insulted the chair today - Indonesia?
> 
> These rich and powerful G7 are behaving as though the rest of G20 are slave nations. Get real.
> 
> This is 2022 not 1980 where they can simply snap their finger and get whatever they want.



Only 3 walk out, USA, Britain, and Canada when Russia finance minister speak ( get his turn)

Financial Meeting is in Washington ( which IMF and World Bank leaders present) , but lead by Indonesia Finance Minister, Sri Mulyani Indrawati

Indonesia invited Ukraine as well


----------



## Oldman1

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Read it again. It makes senses.
> 
> That is what broken promises from US and NATO have brought them. The law of retaliation.
> 
> Don't complained as the US and allies are clearly in breach.
> 
> Treaties and agreements are useless, he pointed out which are true again today.
> 
> One US President will tear up signed agreement of the previous President and that violated international law.
> 
> I have no time to read it all today and merely did a quick cursory glances but will read it again later.


I already read it. Now the Russians instead of calling Ukrainians Nazis they think they are Satans and they are the crusaders. Really can't make up their minds.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## PakAlp

Mariupol steelworks: 'Block it so a fly can't pass,' Putin orders


The Russian leader drops plans to storm the Azovstal plant with fighters and civilians inside.



www.bbc.com


----------



## Oldman1




----------



## The SC

Chechen military sources confirm the presence of a prominent military leadership "American, Canadian, German, Italian, Greek and Spanish", in addition to the leadership of the French Seventh Corps, besieged inside the Azovstal factory.



https://twitter.com/khalediskef

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517252667239813122


----------



## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> He is a Bosnian "Muslim" guy whose people were massacred in the 1990s by the Serbs who are Orthodox Christians. They lost over 200,000 people, but he downplays it though  He opposes Russia because being a mostly Orthodox Christian country, he is associating his ordeal with the Serbs to the Russians. It is dumb association though. That is everything you need to understand about his nonsense. He wont say it, but it is pretty obvious.


*And* because Russia seeks to destabilise my country right now, *and* seeks to prevent our NATO membership. *And* seeks to break NATO up and seeks to dictate terms to democratic countries *and* terrorises other countries and uses WMD's on foreign soil *and* (you wont believe this one) has invaded a sovereign democratic nation and seeks to change its borders. *and* *and* *and*.


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Who cares if they're white or not even though being "white" didn't help you in the 1990s when you were led to the slaughterhouse as lambs


Russia cares. Thats why these guys parade and others die in the ukranian mud.


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I used to join your demonstrations and remember your cries when your fellow Slavs were massacring you


This shows at some point in your life you had a moral compass.


Foinikas said:


> The real estimates are about 80,000-100,000 in the entire war and that includes military and civilians killed not only by Serbs,but also by Croats.


its 100,000 from all sides. And since all of the 100k are our citizens, I prefer to give a total figure. but if you care about ethnic following its 60k - 30k - 10k and half of that 60k being civilians like kids and old folks. We could have done the same to their civilians but we are not monsters.


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517306248353431552


And Putin told him that he's still good with Israel, and that Palestinians should stop attacking Israeli civilians and try to find a compromise. What does he expect from Putin? There is a million Russians in Israel sitting pretty on Palestinian land.

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## Oldman1

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517203656579649536


Artillery and long range missiles like ATACMs are important, need to provide HIMARs or M270s to launch those 300km range missiles.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

t


BHAN85 said:


> I saw fake news about Shoigu in mainstream Western newspapers.
> Ridiculous the level of lies of Western mainstream press about Russia.


The same goes for the Captain of Moskva and his crew. 

They all turned up alive at a ceremony for reassignment and for a minute upon reading the news, we thought they were all ghosts out for vengeance against the Ukrainians. 

Good for laughter when trolls in here claimed how many Russian Generals have been killed.

Russia has never even bother to admit nor deny them. 

They just turned up after their death.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517180714134949889

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517194871290966021

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CAPRICORN-88

Oldman1 said:


> I already read it. Now the Russians instead of calling Ukrainians Nazis they think they are Satans and they are the crusaders. Really can't make up their minds.


Didn't US President GW Bush also used and mentioned the word "*crusade*" then quickly retracted it at a public speech?

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## Oldman1

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Didn't US President GW Bush also used and mentioned the word "*crusade*" then quickly retracted it at a public speech?


He did, but the Russians aren't afraid to call themselves as Crusaders now.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## CAPRICORN-88

n


Indos said:


> Only 3 walk out, USA, Britain, and Canada when Russia finance minister speak ( get his turn)
> 
> Financial Meeting is in Washington ( which IMF and World Bank leaders present) , but lead by Indonesia Finance Minister, Sri Mulyani Indrawati
> 
> Indonesia invited Ukraine as wel



No! Ukraine was not invited but the US and her G7 partners threatened to do so at the next meeting if Russia a member of G20 gets invited.

How illogical and stupid they sounded? 

Privi for non members over a member.  

Unbelievable. G7 nations have denigrated as followers.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517292030031974403


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Oldman1 said:


> He did, but the Russians aren't afraid to call themselves as Crusaders now.


It good to know that they have common objective yet they are so different.
And they point finger at each other because of the rivalry using the others s pawns. 

I am still learning the nuances of the languages uses by politicians esp those from the US and UK.


----------



## Oldman1

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517331034639065088
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517331306409046016
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517331866746974209


Wow thats a crazy weapon. 6 hours loitering time. Must have crazy range for sure.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517214527946956801

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Oldman1

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> It good to know that they have common objective yet they are so different.
> And they point finger at each other because of the rivalry using the others s pawns.
> 
> I am still learning the nuances of the languages uses by politicians esp those from the US and UK.


Shrugs* All I know is that the Ukrainians call the Russians orcs. They are determined to kill and push them out.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517028215092649984


----------



## DF41

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Are you high on grass?
> All your irrelevant question already attended to.
> Brush up your English Comprehension.
> This is the 3rd time.
> Stop trolling.


Dump that brain dead troll with other brain dead trolls where sun and moon will never shine on.

More time for you to enjoy your coffee and smell roses

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## Oldman1

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517214527946956801


Still need to send in missiles.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Oldman1 said:


> Shrugs* All I know is that the Ukrainians call the Russians orcs. They are determined to kill and push them out.


That is why Ukrainian can migrate to Russia so easily and lived there. 

Their complicated relationship and history. 

AFAIK we are just outsider. Both of them may throw their punch simultaneously at us if we continue to stoke their differences.

So get wise as we gets older.


----------



## Oldman1

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> That is why Ukrainian can migrate to Russia so easily and lived there.
> 
> Their complicated relationship and history.
> 
> AFAIK we are just outsider. Both of them may throw their punch simultaneously at us if we continue to stoke their differences.
> 
> So get wise as we gets older.


Thats why you have Russians living in Ukraine as well and live there and fighting against their own, even many Ukrainian troops know how to speak Russian and interrogate the Russian prisoners. Its definitely a complicated relationship.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517315143109165056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517306672028471296


----------



## Oldman1

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517315143109165056


Good luck trying to do that. You guys gave Ukraine more tanks now than what they had when the war started. And I don't even want to mention other weaponry that was provided around the world.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517291578381017089

Reactions: Love Love:
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## F-22Raptor

Oldman1 said:


> Wow thats a crazy weapon. 6 hours loitering time. Must have crazy range for sure.



We know the Army tested a classified loitering munition with range in excess of 400km last year. Phoenix Ghost is an Air Force program, but it could be some variant of that?

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Trango Towers

Vergennes said:


> View attachment 836229


No guessing which side u promote


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517288709623795712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517285795849252871

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517269680339263489

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Oldman1

F-22Raptor said:


> We know the Army tested a classified loitering munition with range in excess of 400km last year. Phoenix Ghost is an Air Force program, but it could be some variant of that?


Could be, but they all have different programs so maybe their own view of what type of loitering munition they want. From what I'm reading on, this one was meant for Ukraine's specifications. They really want long range so probably a reduced warhead since it says medium armor. I'm betting the Air Force probably were going to launch their own from cargo planes or jet fighters for this.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517255862343057409

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517174496163241989


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517128690563432448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517173615808102401

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516703749431083010


----------



## thetutle

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517291578381017089


The actual wheat price is a tiny fraction of the final cost of wheat a western consumer pays. So I may buy a wheat product today that costs $8. Like a large slice of pizza. The actual cost of wheat in that pizza is like 20 cents. If the what price doubles. my pizza slice will be $8.20. Im not going to starve. I'll pay the extra 20 cents. The real cost of pizza for me is the rent the seller pays, the electricity they pay, the high cost of wages. Westerners don't actually buy big bags of flour. We dont know what do to with it. So the cost of flour/wheat is irrelevant. If things get bad we will just learn how to make our own bread. 

The biggest problem here is for poor countries in Africa and Asia. A doubling of wheat prices will really hit them and thats unfortunate.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516256758217465857

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517053496553619456


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517366372530941953


----------



## The SC

Nato isn’t ready for war with Russia, warns UK general​
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-war-nato-ukraine-b2061001.html


----------



## The SC

April 21, 2022






_The map shows the approximate Russian strike axes (red) and Ukrainian defense belts (blue) in the early stage of the Battle of Donbas (Liveuamap/The Kyiv Independent)_


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517230300337684480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517307655794081795

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517368484732321792


----------



## Piotr

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia has already strategically lost and their forces continue to get attrited.
> 
> Russia has lost. They are in a significantly worse position than they were 2-3 months ago.



Your Muerica was at war with Afghanistan for 20 years. For whole of that 20 years your propaganda claimed that you are wining. You fled Afghanistan last year. After 20 years of "winning":




You lost war against Afghanistan, so don't be in such a hurry to make conclusions.

IMO Russia is doing fine. We will see how situation unfold.

There is so much BS coming from comedian Zelensky regime (USA).
-the Gost of Kiev
-defense of the Snake Island
-killed Russian generals
-Shoigu having a heart attack
-Russians having low morale

Do those Russians look like having low morale:

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## Viet

PakFactor said:


> I'm applying the same logic the West uses in conflict in there "Total War" concept so this is nothing new. I don't get into caring about life we're way beyond that emotional point.
> What Putin is doing is wasting time, money and lives when he could just bomb it and free up men/women to position towards other fronts.


This Russian war on Ukraine is not different to Japan war on China. What differs is the rhetoric, the lies, the propaganda.
It’s exact the very same motive in the case of Japan, Russia aims to take territory, land, people and resources.
Posters here cheer Russia wars of aggression while condemning US wars.
Citing Ukraine no matter women or children as Nazi is no difference to calling them as Untermenschen.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517254324757356544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517171807744311296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517081949185228807

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517071407422877696


----------



## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517230300337684480
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517307655794081795
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517368484732321792


The destructions caused by Russian army are enormous. that will take decades if not half century to rebuild. Ukraine deserves to be in NATO and EU. Ukraine is more pro west than nationalistic Serbia.


----------



## Piotr

Oldman1 said:


> Shrugs* All I know is that the Ukrainians call the Russians orcs. They are determined to kill and push them out.



USA (comedian Zelensky) call the Russians "orcs". Many people in the former Ukraine greet Russian forces.
On the other hand more and more people are fed off with USA Bandera forces:



> Sane Citizens Starting To Turn Against Their Armed Forces
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bitchute.com


^Kiev

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## The SC

NW of Izyum

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517367157675462656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517334576586280963

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517281382195732480


Viet said:


> The destructions caused by Russian army are enormous. that will take decades if not half century to rebuild. Ukraine deserves to be in NATO and EU. Ukraine is more pro west than nationalistic Serbia.


Not all Ukrainians are pro West.. the best for Ukraine is to claim its neutrality..then this war will make no sense even to Russia and it will stop.. Ukraine will become a rich and developed country on the Swiss model..

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## Viet

The SC said:


> NW of Izyum
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517367157675462656
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517334576586280963
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517281382195732480
> 
> Not all Ukrainians are pro West.. the best for Ukraine is to claim its neutrality..then this war will make no sense even to Russia and it will stop.. Ukraine will become a rich and developed country on the Swiss model..


The Russians living in east Ukraine are pro Russia, what else? If you ask Germans living in Russia they are pro Germany they want to start another war against Russia.
I think Ukraine neutrality is no longer an option. Russia is an aggressive country Putin is a liar, Lavrov is a liar, nobody can trust. Ukraine is not Swiss, Ukraine needs nuclear weapons if neutrality. Ukraine has nuclear knowledge they can do it.


----------



## The SC

Viet said:


> The Russians living in east Ukraine are pro Russia, what else? If you ask Germans living in Russia they are pro Germany they want to start another war against Russia.
> I think Ukraine neutrality is no longer an option. Russia is an aggressive country Putin is a liar, Lavrov is a liar, nobody can trust. Ukraine is not Swiss, Ukraine needs nuclear weapons if neutrality. Ukraine has nuclear knowledge they can do it.


Zelinski signed a treaty with Russia with guarantees from France and Germany and did not respect it.. how do you call him?

Here is another dangerous example:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516776238882381829

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516757783923802115


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516705068992638980

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516713290117926914

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

Oldman1 said:


>


This is really scary. These Russians did everything right. Even had sandbags on the roof of the truck as emotional support armour. 

No matter how much damage they do to Ukraine, Ukraine will still have this precision strike capability. its simply drones, US satellites and artillery. 

It must suck to know that an enemy that is much weaker is able to take you out anytime anywhere.


----------



## Viet

The SC said:


> Zelinski signed a treaty with Russia with guarantees from France and Germany and did not respect it.. how do you call him?
> 
> Here is another dangerous example:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516776238882381829
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516757783923802115


What treaty? There is no such thing.
Don’t spread faked propaganda
There were agreements signed by Ukraine and Russia.
Russia says she respects Ukrainian territory, while Ukraine respects Russian ethnic autonomy.
Putin has no interest in this little autonomy thing. He wants Ukraine for Russians, while sending Ukrainians he calls them Nazi into gas chamber.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517345729093775360

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516737799323635717

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516700687945678850

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Trango Towers

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517214527946956801


US is at war with Russia. This is openly killing Russians


----------



## The SC

Viet said:


> What treaty? There is no such thing.
> Don’t spread faked propaganda
> There were agreements signed by Ukraine and Russia.
> Russia says she respects Ukrainian territory, while Ukraine respects Russian ethnic autonomy.
> Putin has no interest in this little autonomy thing. He wants Ukraine for Russians, while sending Ukrainians he calls them Nazi into gas chamber.


You should at least educate yourself on the Minsk Agreement before answering with your usual BS rhetoric..

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-reaction-russia-1.5305607

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R45008

*Minsk I*

Ukraine and the Russia-backed separatists agreed on a 12-point ceasefire deal in September 2014.

Its provisions included prisoner exchanges, deliveries of humanitarian aid and the withdrawal of heavy weapons. However, the agreement quickly broke down, with violations by both sides.


*Minsk II*

Representatives of Russia, Ukraine, the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) and the leaders of separatist-held regions Donetsk and Luhansk signed a 13-point agreement in February 2015.

The leaders of France, Germany, Russia and Ukraine gathered in Minsk to mark the occasion and issued a declaration of support.


The deal’s 13 points were:


Immediate, comprehensive ceasefire.
Withdrawal of heavy weapons by both sides.
OSCE monitoring.
Dialogue on interim self-government for Donetsk and Luhansk, in accordance with Ukrainian law, and acknowledgement of special status by parliament.
Pardon, amnesty for fighters.
Exchange of hostages, prisoners.
Humanitarian assistance.
Resumption of socioeconomic ties, including pensions.
Ukraine to restore control of state border.
Withdrawal of foreign armed formations, military equipment, mercenaries.
Constitutional reform in Ukraine including decentralisation, with specific mention of Donetsk and Luhansk.
Elections in Donetsk and Luhansk.
Intensify Trilateral Contact Group’s work including representatives of Russia, Ukraine and OSCE.
The Minsk II deal set out military and political steps that remain unimplemented.

A major blockage has been Russia’s insistence that it is not a party to the conflict and therefore is not bound by its terms.

In general, Moscow and Kyiv interpret the pact very differently, leading to what has been dubbed by some observers as the “Minsk conundrum”.

Ukraine sees the 2015 agreement as an instrument to re-establish control over the rebel territories.

It wants a ceasefire, control of the Russia-Ukraine border, elections in the Donbas, and a limited devolution of power to the separatists – in that order.

Russia views the deal as obliging Ukraine to grant rebel authorities in Donbas comprehensive autonomy and representation in the central government, effectively giving Moscow the power to veto Kyiv’s foreign policy choices.

Only then would Russia return the Russia-Ukraine border to Kyiv’s control.

The Minsk II deal offers a vehicle for direct talks between Ukraine and Russia and, due to France’s mediating role in the agreement, provides Macron with the opportunity to play the peacemaker on the world stage as he gears up for re-election at home.


Moscow may see Minsk II as a way to guarantee its central security demand – that Ukraine is never allowed to join NATO. Washington and NATO have already rejected that demand.


For ex-Soviet state Ukraine, the deal could present an opportunity to wrest back control of its border with Russia and end the threat of Moscow ordering another invasion, at least for now.


Kyiv says it will never allow Russia to have a de facto veto on Ukrainian foreign policy decisions, and many in Ukraine see the fulfilment of Minsk II as a concession to Russian aggression. But there may be room for compromise – all parties have expressed willingness for dialogue.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

On April 22, Roscosmos will send technical proposals to the Department of Transportation and the Federal Air Transport Agency on replacing GPS with GLONASS equipment that will also be able to receive a signal from the Chinese navigation system.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517378277807112192

The European Union has said it has no plans to impose restrictions on oil and gas supplies from Russia.. The reason for this, Josep Borrell said, was the lack of consensus on the issue - several member states had threatened to veto the decision to restrict supplies.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517315630214615042


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517381232161705984

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517393044450197505


----------



## thetutle

Trango Towers said:


> US is at war with Russia. This is openly killing Russians


This is correct. US is also guiding artillery shells on target. The only thing Americans are not doing is pulling the trigger. They are doing everything else. Russia must respond to this.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517390296291684353

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517394263482507264


----------



## Viet

The SC said:


> You should at least educate yourself on the Minsk Agreement before answering with your usual BS rhetoric..
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-reaction-russia-1.5305607
> 
> https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R45008
> 
> *Minsk I*
> 
> Ukraine and the Russia-backed separatists agreed on a 12-point ceasefire deal in September 2014.
> 
> Its provisions included prisoner exchanges, deliveries of humanitarian aid and the withdrawal of heavy weapons. However, the agreement quickly broke down, with violations by both sides.
> 
> 
> *Minsk II*
> 
> Representatives of Russia, Ukraine, the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) and the leaders of separatist-held regions Donetsk and Luhansk signed a 13-point agreement in February 2015.
> 
> The leaders of France, Germany, Russia and Ukraine gathered in Minsk to mark the occasion and issued a declaration of support.
> 
> 
> The deal’s 13 points were:
> 
> 
> Immediate, comprehensive ceasefire.
> Withdrawal of heavy weapons by both sides.
> OSCE monitoring.
> Dialogue on interim self-government for Donetsk and Luhansk, in accordance with Ukrainian law, and acknowledgement of special status by parliament.
> Pardon, amnesty for fighters.
> Exchange of hostages, prisoners.
> Humanitarian assistance.
> Resumption of socioeconomic ties, including pensions.
> Ukraine to restore control of state border.
> Withdrawal of foreign armed formations, military equipment, mercenaries.
> Constitutional reform in Ukraine including decentralisation, with specific mention of Donetsk and Luhansk.
> Elections in Donetsk and Luhansk.
> Intensify Trilateral Contact Group’s work including representatives of Russia, Ukraine and OSCE.
> The Minsk II deal set out military and political steps that remain unimplemented.
> 
> A major blockage has been Russia’s insistence that it is not a party to the conflict and therefore is not bound by its terms.
> 
> In general, Moscow and Kyiv interpret the pact very differently, leading to what has been dubbed by some observers as the “Minsk conundrum”.
> 
> Ukraine sees the 2015 agreement as an instrument to re-establish control over the rebel territories.
> 
> It wants a ceasefire, control of the Russia-Ukraine border, elections in the Donbas, and a limited devolution of power to the separatists – in that order.
> 
> Russia views the deal as obliging Ukraine to grant rebel authorities in Donbas comprehensive autonomy and representation in the central government, effectively giving Moscow the power to veto Kyiv’s foreign policy choices.
> 
> Only then would Russia return the Russia-Ukraine border to Kyiv’s control.
> 
> The Minsk II deal offers a vehicle for direct talks between Ukraine and Russia and, due to France’s mediating role in the agreement, provides Macron with the opportunity to play the peacemaker on the world stage as he gears up for re-election at home.
> 
> 
> Moscow may see Minsk II as a way to guarantee its central security demand – that Ukraine is never allowed to join NATO. Washington and NATO have already rejected that demand.
> 
> 
> For ex-Soviet state Ukraine, the deal could present an opportunity to wrest back control of its border with Russia and end the threat of Moscow ordering another invasion, at least for now.
> 
> 
> Kyiv says it will never allow Russia to have a de facto veto on Ukrainian foreign policy decisions, and many in Ukraine see the fulfilment of Minsk II as a concession to Russian aggression. But there may be room for compromise – all parties have expressed willingness for dialogue.


You posted it but what’s wrong from what I said?
It’s Putin that threw the agreements into a trash bin. He orders a racial motivated war instead. 
The longer this war continues the more Nazi stories are invented.
That’s lame.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

thetutle said:


> *And* because Russia seeks to destabilise my country right now, *and* seeks to prevent our NATO membership. *And* seeks to break NATO up and seeks to dictate terms to democratic countries *and* terrorises other countries and uses WMD's on foreign soil *and* (you wont believe this one) has invaded a sovereign democratic nation and seeks to change its borders. *and* *and* *and*.



Let us hope Russia succeeds in its mission in breaking up NATO and prevening other countries from joining. The end of NATO and hegemonic West is something that would be welcomed in many corners around the globe.


----------



## Ich

Oldman1 said:


> Wow thats a crazy weapon. 6 hours loitering time. Must have crazy range for sure.



Its old stuff. Even Iran has such drones long time.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Let us hope Russia succeeds in its mission in breaking up NATO and prevening other countries from joining. The end of NATO and hegemonic West is something that would be welcomed in many corners around the globe.


We don't know about NATO but Ukraine will be broken into pieces after this war.

Russia methodical grinding and destruction of the enemies in a slow and steady way was seen in Syria and is now happening in Ukraine.

Before Russia entered the war Assad controlled only 10% of the territory and now it is 75~80%.

*That is why former Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych has just told Zalensky in an open letter to stop the war at all cost and to swallow his personal pride if he really loved Ukraine.*

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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Let us hope Russia succeeds in its mission in breaking up NATO and prevening other countries from joining. The end of NATO and hegemonic West is something that would be welcomed in many corners around the globe.


Yes this is what we are fighting over. USSR could not do it, it had more population than US and at some point a larger GDP. 

Now its russia. Alone. With emotional support from some corners fo the world. 

We will see who wins


----------



## Vergennes

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *That is why former Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych has just told Zalensky in an open letter to stop the war at all cost and to swallow his personal pride if he really loved Ukraine.*



Coming from Putin's lapdog this isn't surprising 

War could be stopped if Russia stops its illegal agression against Ukraine not the other way around. Thanks to Putin he has given NATO a reason to exist and more countries will join NATO even direct Russian neighbors. And he will do jack sh/t to stop that.


----------



## The SC

PhoenixGhost Suicide Drone that the US is sending to Ukraine:

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## MajesticPug

Viet said:


> What treaty? There is no such thing.
> Don’t spread faked propaganda
> There were agreements signed by Ukraine and Russia.
> Russia says she respects Ukrainian territory, while Ukraine respects Russian ethnic autonomy.
> Putin has no interest in this little autonomy thing. He wants Ukraine for Russians, while sending Ukrainians he calls them Nazi into gas chamber.



This is outright lies.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517422477378531328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517420926316515330

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517428995083890688

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## Corax

gambit said:


> People here support Russia/Poutine because they are anti-US/West, not because they have any ties to Russia.



Why do you think people are anti-US/West? Do you people ever wonder why a sizeable part of the world hates you?

I've been reading your posts in this thread, and the sad part is that you don't even realise how you come across. You are the exact mirror opposite of the Russians you're vilifying so much. As your avatar indicates, the US/Russia are the opposite sides of the same coin. You and your nation do the exact same thing to the world that the Russians are doing. But you can get away with it because you have the charade of changing leadership under the guise of democracy, but the policy of global hegemonism stays the same. You can get away with invading countries, leading to instability, global terrorism, and the deaths of millions, all under the guise of "democracy". The only difference between you and Russians, or the Chinese, the Iranians or the North Koreans for that matter, is that they are authoritarian dictatorships, that's all. There will come a day when the US will come to an end, it happens to all great powers, from the Romans to the British Empire, but it may not be in your or my lifetime. And when great powers come to an end, they usually take down a lot with them.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Let us hope Russia succeeds in its mission in breaking up NATO and prevening other countries from joining. The end of NATO and hegemonic West is something that would be welcomed in many corners around the globe.


Don’t worry, the sun will eventually turn into a red giant, so the demise of NATO is guaranteed.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517436970057834497


----------



## Vergennes

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517345729093775360



According to the same source 160 sailors on the moskva were reported killed and +100s still missing.

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## The SC

Spoiler: GraphicThe Russian Ministry of Defense publishes video from fortified positions left by the Armed Forces of Ukraine





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517415659969421313


----------



## Dalit

Vergennes said:


> Coming from Putin's lapdog this isn't surprising
> 
> War could be stopped if Russia stops its illegal agression against Ukraine not the other way around. Thanks to Putin he has given NATO a reason to exist and more countries will join NATO even direct Russian neighbors. And he will do jack sh/t to stop that.



Russia won't be able to stop other neighbours from joining NATO. Russia can stop NATO's influence in the immediate neighbourhood. That is exactly what Russia is doing.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Don’t worry, the sun will eventually turn into a red giant, so the demise of NATO is guaranteed.



You look a little nervous. A little defensive. A little jolted. This is not how you usually respond to other topics on PDF. I have also seen your reactions to the Quran burning topic. Chest forward. Full of confidence. We will teach these Moslems some freedom of expression. A very different tone on this topic. Is everything okay?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517148600702169088


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## Dalit

Corax said:


> Why do you think people are anti-US/West? Do you people ever wonder why a sizeable part of the world hates you?
> 
> I've been reading your posts in this thread, and the sad part is that you don't even realise how you come across. You are the exact mirror opposite of the Russians you're vilifying so much. As your avatar indicates, the US/Russia are the opposite sides of the same coin. You and your nation do the exact same thing to the world that the Russians are doing. But you can get away with it because you have the charade of changing leadership under the guise of democracy, but the policy of global hegemonism stays the same. You can get away with invading countries, leading to instability, global terrorism, and the deaths of millions, all under the guise of "democracy". The only difference between you and Russians, or the Chinese, the Iranians or the North Koreans for that matter, is that they are authoritarian dictatorships, that's all. There will come a day when the US will come to an end, it happens to all great powers, from the Romans to the British Empire, but it may not be in your or my lifetime. And when great powers come to an end, they usually take down a lot with them.



You are talking to a brick wall. These Western members of PDF are intoxicated with supremacy and arrogance. Every single remark is laced with impudence. Their only purpose to visit PDF is to lecture third world brownies about their first world facts.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517175457757769728


----------



## WotTen

Corax said:


> The only difference between you and Russians, or the Chinese



America's greatest asset is its global propaganda machine. Other countries may claim to be superpowers, past or upcoming, but America is the only real superpower for over a century.

The US is the only country on planet Earth that combines apex military, economic, and cultural power on a global scale. Other countries may try to match it in one area or another, but not all three at once in one country.



Dalit said:


> You are talking to a brick wall. These Western members of PDF are intoxicated with supremacy and arrogance. Every single remark is laced with impudence. Their only purpose to visit PDF is to lecture third world brownies about their first world facts.



America earned its global dominance through hard work, not colonialism like some European countries. Germany worked hard. China is rising through the ranks and earning its status through hard work.

Nature is fair. It does not play favorites. It rewards hard work.

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## Dalit

WotTen said:


> America's greatest asset is its global propaganda machine. Other countries may claim to be superpowers, past or upcoming, but America is the only real superpower for over a century.
> 
> The US is the only country on planet Earth that combines apex military, economic, and cultural power on a global scale. Other countries may try to match it in one area or another, but not all three at once in one country.
> 
> 
> 
> America earned its global dominance through hard work, not colonialism like Europe. China is rising through the ranks and earning its status through hard work.
> 
> Nature is fair. It does not play favorites. It rewards hard work.



No one has ever denied that. In fact, this is beside the point and not even relevant to this discussion. What does America the superpower expect from other lesser beings? Does it expect to be worshipped? Does it assume that it is above criticism?

Just because the US is a superpower doesn't imply that it can resort to mischief without objection. Something it often accuses others. With being a superpower one also expects responsibility and accountability.

It is hypocritical that a superpower has a terrible record in so many areas yet expects to be revered. The superpower claims to be holier than thou. Don't expect lesser beings to lie down and suck it in.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517246868262113281


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## FuturePAF

Has the war been taken deep into Russia with Sabateour actions? There is a massive chemical factory (the poster probably meant 250 miles EAST of the conflict zone, and on the outskirts of Moscow)


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517172233629626368

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517181391963922432


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## CAPRICORN-88

Vergennes said:


> Coming from Putin's lapdog this isn't surprising
> 
> War could be stopped if Russia stops its illegal agression against Ukraine not the other way around. Thanks to Putin he has given NATO a reason to exist and more countries will join NATO even direct Russian neighbors. And he will do jack sh/t to stop that.


That is pretty unfair. 

Considering the fact, *Victor Vanukovich did won an election by popular votes coming from the entire Ukraine nation and after his ouster, the wishes of the Eastern Provinces are ignored. *

We can see that. 

What about Zalensky? 

Isn't he similarly a Western lapdog?

Being Asian our wisdom tells us to look at the overall picture but we choose to remain neutral although we do know the answer. 

*While the US and the West caught up with their geopolitical rivalry can closed their eyes and conscience to the genocidal killing by the AZOV battalion in the East despite of all the evidences that surface, one should not side blindly with Zalensky promoted by the US and NATO. 

Why didn't Zalensky complied with Minsk II that already acknowledge all the warcrimes committed by one side and filed in the UN?*

That would have save the day. 

Because it did not serve the plan of his sponsor or more precisely the master. 

Why is Zalensky complaining today that the US and NATO have BETRAYED him? 

Broken pledges and promises of their participation or what?

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## sammuel

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Russia methodical grinding and destruction of the enemies in a slow and steady way was seen in Syria and is now happening in Ukraine.



Boning defenseless cites in Syria is not like fighting a regular army. 

Chief of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces Valery Gerasimov said that, overall, the Russian Air Force had carried out 19,160 combat missions and delivered 71,000 strikes against cities in Syria.

( I wonder what some here would say if it was the Americans that carried out such bombing against Muslim cites.

In Syria lost they lost 8 planes and 6 helicopters and 117 servicemen.

Here they already lost 20 planes and 20 helicopters in much less time and less sorties and lost don't know how many thousands of servicemen.

~~


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

FuturePAF said:


> Has the war been taken deep into Russia with Sabateour actions? There is a massive chemical factory (the poster probably meant 250 miles EAST of the conflict zone, and on the outskirts of Moscow)
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517172233629626368


Perhap just another fire. 

A fire broke out near my area about a week ago and it is not even in Ukraine.

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## Wergeland

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Let us hope Russia succeeds in its mission in breaking up NATO and prevening other countries from joining. The end of NATO and hegemonic West is something that would be welcomed in many corners around the globe.



NATO is here to stay buddy. But hopefully it goes back to be a purely defensive pact.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> That is pretty unfair.
> 
> Considering the fact, *Victor Vanukovich did won an election by popular votes coming from the entire Ukraine nation and after his ouster, the wishes of the Eastern Provinces are ignored. *
> 
> We can see that.
> 
> What about Zalensky?
> 
> Isn't he similarly a Western lapdog?
> 
> Being Asian our wisdom tells us to look at the overall picture but we choose to remain neutral although we do know the answer.
> 
> *While the US and the West caught up with their geopolitical rivalry can closed their eyes and conscience to the genocidal killing by the AZOV battalion in the East despite of all the evidences that surface, one should not side blindly with Zalensky promoted by the US and NATO.
> 
> Why didn't Zalensky complied with Minsk II that already acknowledge all the warcrimes committed by one side and filed in the UN?*
> 
> That would have save the day.
> 
> Because it did not serve the plan of his sponsor or more precisely the master.
> 
> Why is Zalensky complaining today that the US and NATO have BETRAYED him?
> 
> Broken pledges and promises of their participation or what?


The Minsk II stated that Ukraine should get control of its border.
That was blocked by Russia.

Yanukovich was about to be impeached for his dealings with Russia when he escaped. He remained formally President until the end of his term. Ukraine elected an acting President meanwhile.
The constitution allows for electing a new President when the current President is unable to do his duty for medical reasons.
A President which refuses to do his duty was not foreseen by the constitution.
The infringement of the constitution was definitely at an end after the next Presidential election, so calling Zalensky a lapdog is simply propaganda.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

sammuel said:


> Boning defenseless cites in Syria is not like fighting a regular army.
> 
> Chief of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces Valery Gerasimov said that, overall, the Russian Air Force had carried out 19,160 combat missions and delivered 71,000 strikes against cities in Syria.
> 
> ( I wonder what some here would say if it was the Americans that carried out such bombing against Muslim cites.
> 
> In Syria lost they lost 8 planes and 6 helicopters.
> 
> Here they already lost 20 planes and 20 helicopters in much less time and less sorties.
> 
> ~~


*If the ISIS is as defenceless and innocent as you described then the US would not taken 7 years claiming to bomb them and in the end accomplished NOTHING.*

I am surprised that you did not mentioned innocent babies and women killed. 

And the US would not have enacted the draconian Homeland Security and Patriot Act in a hurry after 911 by the same group. 

In fact the ISIS expanded during this period. 

So kindly go somewhere else to promote your tall tales.

I won't be responding to any more further question from you until you get real and more factual.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517366098303373314


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## CAPRICORN-88

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The Minsk II stated that Ukraine should get control of its border.
> That was blocked by Russia.
> 
> Yanukovich was about to be impeached for his dealings with Russia when he escaped. He remained formally President until the end of his term. Ukraine elected an acting President meanwhile.
> The constitution allows for electing a new President when the current President is unable to do his duty for medical reasons.
> A President which refuses to do his duty was not foreseen by the constitution.
> The infringement of the constitution was definitely at an end after the next Presidential election, so calling Zalensky a lapdog is simply propaganda.


Hello Hello

Read more before opining.

*The main point of Minsk II is AUTONOMY for these Eastern Province. 

Not secessionism then as it is today in failing to comply. *

If it is blocked by Russia as fabricated by you then the Minsk II agreement would not have been signed by Ukraine and the Eastern Provinces back in 2014.

Russia was just one of the witnesses and has basically no say in the agreement.

*That is because since 2014, the regime that usurped the power in Kiev send in their killer AZOV neo-nazi batallion.*

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517411666761240576

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## Dalit

I wonder what the Western brigade on PDF expects from lesser beings? This constant barrage of forced propaganda won't garner any support. The Western brigade on PDF reminds me of the Western diplomats in Pakistan who wrote a letter to the previous government. Seeking support for their cause. More like you are with us or against us. You cannot force others to accept your one-sided propaganda.

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## Paul2

Viet said:


> The US is generous. last week 800 million USD, this week 1.3 billion USD. So almost 1 billion per week. Still much cheaper than Putin spends on war: 5 billion USD per week. Zelenskki can be happy. Russia will become faster bankrupt than the US.



Billion per week - more or less what Afghanistan was for the US during less intense stages of the war


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## CAPRICORN-88

I guess President Putin lost his patience immediately after the clown Zalensky refused to attend the Feb 8, 2022 meeting after agreeing to do so.

Meaning Zalensky will reneged on his promises to comply with Minsk II.

And Liz Truss and Biden added fuel to the fire by insinuating that NATO will accept Ukraine.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> Spoiler: GraphicThe Russian Ministry of Defense publishes video from fortified positions left by the Armed Forces of Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517415659969421313




@Vergennes @F-22Raptor, did you see this report?





Dalit said:


> I wonder what the Western brigade on PDF expects from lesser beings? This constant barrage of forced propaganda won't garner any support. The Western brigade on PDF reminds me of the Western diplomats in Pakistan who wrote a letter to the previous government. Seeking support for their cause. More like you are with us or against us. You cannot force others to accept your one-sided propaganda.



We matched it bro and make sure their propaganda doesn't go unanswered. In social media, they're suspending any account that they see exposing their lies. But in PDF, they've been checkmated to the point some of them resorted to namecalling.....but that itself means a desperation on their part.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Just like the Peace Talk in Turkey, Russia accused Zalensky of NOT being serious. 

After making an offer and agreement, he will changed his mind and withdraw them. 

Is it because after he checked with his master, they diaspproved his proposal, I wonder?

To Russia, that is a delaying tactics commonly used by con tricksters.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517411065277124608

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517448541806944257

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## sammuel

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *If the ISIS is as defenceless and innocent as you described then the US would not taken 7 years claiming to bomb them and in the end accomplished NOTHING.*
> 
> I am surprised that you did not mentioned innocent babies and women killed.



Sure . Russia only fight Nazis and Isis.

Russia did not enter the Syria war to fight ISIS , They could not care less about that. The Joined the war to help Assad the dictator stay in power,















Putin Invites Trump To Help End Syrian War As Russia Bombs Civilian Targets


At their joint news conference, President Putin said Russia and the U.S. can work together to alleviate suffering in Syria. Russia continues to attack civilian targets in support of the Syrian regime.




www.npr.org

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Spoiler: Graphic

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517463828333744129


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517461293501878272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517466738161590273

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## RescueRanger

Huffal said:


> @RescueRanger
> 
> Seems like Russia has claimed to have taken all of Mariupol.
> 
> Also are you getting major winter war/continuation war vibes from this war?


Seems like Russians are planning on starving the Ukrainians holed up in the Steel Works.

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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517463828333744129



My observations. Ukrainians haven't reached Kupyansk. Russians walked into Borova within last 24 hours, and took it without challenge.

No info on Ukrainian forces who crossed to the Western bank of Oskil few days ago. So, their plan to hold at Bohuslavka may now be in jeopardy too.

Russia loses 2-3 armour companies per day. A lot, but a significantly lower rate than at the start of the conflict, when multiple BTGs were written off per day.

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## Viet

Paul2 said:


> Billion per week - more or less what Afghanistan was for the US during less intense stages of the war


Much cheaper for the US
Biden shares the costs with 29 NATO plus Japan, Korea, etc.
Russia bears the costs alone.
Putin receives gratis applaud from China, Cuba, Venezuela.


----------



## Primus

RescueRanger said:


> Seems like Russians are planning on starving the Ukrainians holed up in the Steel Works.


I thought they had run out of supplies in the factory (food and ammo)?

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## Viet

Huffal said:


> I thought they had run out of supplies in the factory (food and ammo)?


No
Much like Vietcong tunnels during the war, kilometer long with supply with everything you need to sustain enemy assaults.
The Azoz can hold on. They will bleed out the Russians and their paid fighters from Syria, Libya, Checkens.
The steel factories have tunnels, bunkers, supply routes.
The longer the Azoz keeps defending the better. large parts of Russo army can’t launch the joint attack at Donbas.


----------



## denel

sammuel said:


> Sure . Russia only fight Nazis and Isis.
> 
> Russia did not enter the Syria war to fight ISIS , They could not care less about that. The Joined the war to help Assad the dictator stay in power,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin Invites Trump To Help End Syrian War As Russia Bombs Civilian Targets
> 
> 
> At their joint news conference, President Putin said Russia and the U.S. can work together to alleviate suffering in Syria. Russia continues to attack civilian targets in support of the Syrian regime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.npr.org


Wagner group and Putins hench men honed and refined the tactics of further scorched earth tactics which are widely evident on Ukraine. Regretfully, we are some lunnytunes FSB patriots who live in parallel universes.

For their local consumption and validate their design - it is convinient to call others NAzis when Russians are the criminal enterprise lead by Tsar Putin and his murdering marauders. The mass murder being committed by his henchmen and kardirov's brutal enforcers are there to be seen.

Alas the Pak members who are supporting these very Russians were not even around when Zia had predicted the Afghan invasion months ahead and had vowed to push these heathens back to River amur. Kudos to him... he knew what these murderers are like and gave them a taste of their own medicine. Russians never learnt it seems.

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## thetutle

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517148600702169088


Relax everyone, its just faulty wiring. 









Fire at Russian defence research facility kills 6 people


Russian officials say six people have died and 27 more are injured after a fire at a defense research facility in the northwestern Russian city of Tver




abcnews.go.com





Nothing to be concerned about

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## Paul2

Update, the wide Russian all out offensive seem to be happening right now, in the last few hours.

Multiple BTGs worth of troops written off. Hundreds of casualties due to use of infantry wave attacks in open fields, with little armour.

It seems Russians starting to preserve armour.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517463774189469696


Piotr said:


> Your Muerica was at war with Afghanistan for 20 years. For whole of that 20 years your propaganda claimed that you are wining. You fled Afghanistan last year. After 20 years of "winning":
> View attachment 836648
> 
> You lost war against Afghanistan, so don't be in such a hurry to make conclusions.
> 
> IMO Russia is doing fine. We will see how situation unfold.
> 
> There is so much BS coming from comedian Zelensky regime (USA).
> -the Gost of Kiev
> -defense of the Snake Island
> -killed Russian generals
> -Shoigu having a heart attack
> -Russians having low morale
> 
> Do those Russians look like having low morale:




The US never lost in Afghanistan. It achieved its main goal of the destruction of Al Qaeda. The US left Afghanistan after it realized the Afghan people refused to defend its own country. The US would no longer hold their hands. 

You can see the difference of a country that wants to defend itself (Ukraine) vs one that won’t (Afghanistan). 


Meanwhile Russias position strategically is much worse today than 3 months ago, and will take decades to recover. Russia has lost

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517149853520134144

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## Hack-Hook

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517463774189469696
> 
> 
> 
> The US never lost in Afghanistan. It achieved its main goal of the destruction of Al Qaeda. The US left Afghanistan after it realized the Afghan people refused to defend its own country. The US would no longer hold their hands.
> 
> You can see the difference of a country that wants to defend itself (Ukraine) vs one that won’t (Afghanistan).
> 
> 
> Meanwhile Russias position strategically is much worse today than 3 months ago, and will take decades to recover. Russia has lost


and replacing it with ISIS

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517477684540022786

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517484493262802946

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## thetutle

Russia outlines plans to create a land corridor to MOLDOVA


The deputy commander of Russia's central military district, Rustam Minnekayev, said Russia planned to forge a corridor between Crimea and the Donbas in eastern Ukraine.




www.dailymail.co.uk





Looks like Russian death toll is 30,000 now. Ukraine is probably more. But thats a huge toll.

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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> Update, the wide Russian all out offensive seem to be happening right now, in the last few hours.
> 
> Multiple BTGs worth of troops written off. Hundreds of casualties due to use of infantry wave attacks in open fields, with little armour.
> 
> It seems Russians starting to preserve armour.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517491483129131013

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517491837937852417

Ukrainian firepower is set to increase significantly. 

First US howitzers set to arrive this weekend


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517477684540022786
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517484493262802946


How does Ukraine find these hidden lone trucks? Maybe NATO analysts are combing through satellite images every day to pass intelligence 🤔

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## Lehrasap

Piotr said:


> Your Muerica was at war with Afghanistan for 20 years. For whole of that 20 years your propaganda claimed that you are wining. You fled Afghanistan last year. After 20 years of "winning":
> View attachment 836648
> 
> You lost war against Afghanistan, so don't be in such a hurry to make conclusions.
> 
> IMO Russia is doing fine. We will see how situation unfold.
> 
> There is so much BS coming from comedian Zelensky regime (USA).
> -the Gost of Kiev
> -defense of the Snake Island
> -killed Russian generals
> -Shoigu having a heart attack
> -Russians having low morale
> 
> Do those Russians look like having low morale:



In Afghanistan, Taliban got the support of local population.
But in Ukraine, local support is with US and against the Russians.


----------



## SalarHaqq

sammuel said:


> Chief of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces Valery Gerasimov said that, overall, the Russian Air Force had carried out 19,160 combat missions and delivered 71,000 strikes against cities in Syria.
> 
> ( I wonder what some here would say if it was the Americans that carried out such bombing against Muslim cites.



Is this serious?







19.160 sorties by Russian fighter jets in Syria over a period of some 15 months, versus more than 100.000 sorties by the US-led coalition in a single month during the 1991 bombardment of Iraq.

The brutality of NATO and allies, particularly in their campaigns against Muslim nations knows no boundaries.

_____



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> We matched it bro and make sure their propaganda doesn't go unanswered. In social media, they're suspending any account that they see exposing their lies.



I would like to express my gratitude for the obvious effort put into neutralizing the Kafkaesque, Orwellian NATO propaganda this thread is (unsurprisingly) being littered with. Have tried and will try to add my humble contribution whenever I get a chance, though it won't come close to what you brothers have achieved.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> But in PDF, they've been checkmated to the point some of them resorted to namecalling.....but that itself means a desperation on their part.



Yes, they are visibly desperate and nervous. Sensing that time's up for American and NATO hegemony, and that this Russian special military operation in Ukraine is just the beginning. One by one, their proxies and stooges are going to fall, then it'll be the turn of NATO regimes themselves. Tick tock, tick tock.

_____



CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Hello Hello
> 
> Read more before opining.



Reading is not enough. Intellectual honesty is required as well.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517505799416913921

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517496088269398017

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517498476887777282

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517499843891052544

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## thetutle

Wood said:


> How does Ukraine find these hidden lone trucks? Maybe NATO analysts are combing through satellite images every day to pass intelligence 🤔


I'm pretty sure artificial intelligence scans the pictures and identifies the targets. A human would only approve the target and send a message to the artillery fire team.

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## Deino

SalarHaqq said:


> … I would like to thank you for the obvious effort put into neutralizing the Kafkaesque, Orwellian NATO propaganda this thread is (unsurprisingly) being littered with. Have tried and will try to add my humble contribution whenever I get a chance, though it won't come close to what you brothers have achieved. …



And at the same time he can be rated the biggest propaganda-spreader for the pro-Russian side, from those who are critical to his sources.

As such in fact I find it interesting to see the other view, but we all should not forget, none of us knows what really going on there. So constantly bashing other reports as propaganda while at the same time relying only on one type of „sources“ makes anyone such poster highly suspected a propagandist only.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517527943458828289

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## Piotr

Lehrasap said:


> In Afghanistan, Taliban got the support of local population.
> But in Ukraine, local support is with US and against the Russians.


Maybe in the western part, certainly not in the eastern part of the former Ukraine

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## Foinikas

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517428995083890688


Land access to Transinistria is hard. That would mean annexing almost all of Southern Ukraine. Transnistria is far west and almost isolated.



Piotr said:


> Maybe in the western part, certainly not in the eastern part of the former Ukraine
> View attachment 836774
> 
> 
> View attachment 836775



Map that came out in 2014-2015 when the Eastern and Southern parts had protested against the power grab by Svoboda and the other nationalist parties.

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## Paul2

Paul2 said:


> Update, the wide Russian all out offensive seem to be happening right now, in the last few hours.
> 
> Multiple BTGs worth of troops written off. Hundreds of casualties due to use of infantry wave attacks in open fields, with little armour.
> 
> It seems Russians starting to preserve armour.





Paul2 said:


> My observations. Ukrainians haven't reached Kupyansk. Russians walked into Borova within last 24 hours, and took it without challenge.
> 
> No info on Ukrainian forces who crossed to the Western bank of Oskil few days ago. So, their plan to hold at Bohuslavka may now be in jeopardy too.
> 
> Russia loses 2-3 armour companies per day. A lot, but a significantly lower rate than at the start of the conflict, when multiple BTGs were written off per day.



Russian force from Borova moved south, and entered Lozove. No info on force constitution, or size.

Still no info on Ukraine units flanking Russian force west of Oskil.

At least now we know, Russians are aware of:

That Oskil east bank being a big threat to their transport hub in Kupyansk, and rear echelon
That they know Ukrainians tried to exploit that
They will probably station more substantial forces to guard Kupyansk, and east bank of Oskil.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517455499268136961


----------



## Trango Towers

thetutle said:


> This is correct. US is also guiding artillery shells on target. The only thing Americans are not doing is pulling the trigger. They are doing everything else. Russia must respond to this.


Russia has option in Iraq Syria and Palestine

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## thetutle

Ukraine war: Russia 'plans to seize southern Ukraine'


A senior general says the aim is to open a route into a separatist region of Moldova, Transnistria.



www.bbc.com





So they will go for Moldova too. At some point, NATO will have to get more actively involved. He wont stop.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517526479122350082

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## thetutle

Trango Towers said:


> Russia has option in Iraq Syria and Palestine


Possibly Syria. It already controls all it wants to control in syria. They rest is US and Turkish controlled using their proxies. 

Palestine? Is he going to bomb the Palestinians as well? haven't they had enough bombing?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517564518200754176

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## Trango Towers

thetutle said:


> Possibly Syria. It already controls all it wants to control in syria. They rest is US and Turkish controlled using their proxies.
> 
> Palestine? Is he going to bomb the Palestinians as well? haven't they had enough bombing?


When u have no brain there is no point answering.

Come on think it through re Palestine. You can do it.

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## thetutle

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517526479122350082


The way this is going, there wont be any T-72's left anywhere soon.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517539456798142466


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## thetutle

Trango Towers said:


> When u have no brain there is no point answering.
> 
> Come on think it through re Palestine. You can do it.


Russia recognised Israel in 1948, Putin has excellent relations with Israel, and had 1 million Russians living there. Living high or Palestinian land. All these Russians serve in the Israeli military, men and women. I dont know what fantasy planet you live in where Russia turns against Israel.


----------



## khansaheeb

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517455499268136961


Well it did them a lot of good in Afghanistan so why not use it in Ukraine.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517568395339784195


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517573200032542722

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## BHAN85

thetutle said:


> Russia recognised Israel in 1948, Putin has excellent relations with Israel, and had 1 million Russians living there. Living high or Palestinian land. All these Russians serve in the Israeli military, men and women. I dont know what fantasy planet you live in where Russia turns against Israel.











Moscow will ‘respond accordingly’ if Israel gives Ukraine military equipment, Russian envoy says


Russia’s ambassador to Israel says his country would introduce retaliatory measures against Israel if it provides aid to Ukraine.




www.presstv.ir





Russia is only brave against non-NATO members.

Russia facing NATO members shit their pants, event when it's tiny countries like Poland who currently is pissing in the face of all Kremlin acting as hub delivering western weapons to Ukraine.

I've never seen a country misusing so bad their incredible military power like Russia does.
They dont know how face the West, they are just brainless, they accept the American narrative of events, they are just dumbshits.


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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517568395339784195


----------



## Paul2

As for action on Izyum, and Vasylivka directions.

Ukrainians only intercept small scouting parties. I think it's their strategy at the time to avoid meeting engagements, or their commanders on the ground take that decision.

It also seems Ukraine is now preserving its artillery, or they are running short on ammo near Izyum. I read no news on 22nd of large Russian units being destroyed solely through artillery use. Most of losses were from storming towns, and contact warfare.

I think Russian advantage in artillery is still big enough to make Ukrainians avoiding facing them in the open.

It's very interesting for me whether Ukrainians will let Russians get out of the Izyum gap.

If Russians break out of Izyum, they themselves will be going into open fields West to it.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517507088305565698

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517507089748353024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517507092621496320

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517507093972107265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517507095096082434

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517507096224350212


Paul2 said:


> As for action on Izyum, and Vasylivka directions.
> 
> Ukrainians only intercept small scouting parties. I think it's their strategy at the time to avoid meeting engagements, or their commanders on the ground take that decision.
> 
> I think Russian advantage in artillery is still big enough to make Ukrainians avoiding facing them in the open.
> 
> It's very interesting for me whether Ukrainians will let Russians get out of the Izyum gap.
> 
> If Russians break out of Izyum, they themselves will be going into open fields West to it.




Russia is going to lose its artillery advantage, see my previous post.

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## Lehrasap

Piotr said:


> Maybe in the western part, certainly not in the eastern part of the former Ukraine
> View attachment 836774
> 
> 
> View attachment 836775



It may be the situation before the attack upon Ukraine by Putin. 
After the attack, the situation changed.


----------



## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517455499268136961



This war is a gold mine of Intelligence gathering for the west- it is a gold mine for trying out new system directly on Russians in the field for free at no risk... a gold mine for trying out new operational tactics and doctines..

And - all of this is risk free to the west.

The reputation and value of the "Red Army" is now the same as used toilet paper based on their performance to date...

This is totally FUBAR'ed for the Russians - no matter how you look at it. If is FUBAR'ed of epic biblical proportions..

And finally - Russia will have NO military secrets left after this war - none - none - none..

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## Trango Towers

thetutle said:


> Russia recognised Israel in 1948, Putin has excellent relations with Israel, and had 1 million Russians living there. Living high or Palestinian land. All these Russians serve in the Israeli military, men and women. I dont know what fantasy planet you live in where Russia turns against Israel.


Oh dear....and the world is the same as 1948 and there are no Russian in Ukraine and Israel is not America and america is not Israel and putin didn't threaten Israel a couple of days ago. Please jog on. Bye

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## thetutle

Trango Towers said:


> Oh dear....and the world is the same as 1948 and there are no Russian in Ukraine and Israel is not America and america is not Israel and putin didn't threaten Israel a couple of days ago. Please jog on. Bye


So Russians will now save the Palestinians? since 1948 Palestinians have waited for someone to save them. first it was Arabs, then it was Soviets then it was Saddam hussein, then it was Iran, and now we have truly hit the bottom of the barrel, Putins Russia will save Palestinians? 

How deluded can you get, geez. 

Judging by Russias performance, Israeli airforce is probably stronger than Russias, and Israeli land forces could take russia out very quickly in Syria. Also, Israel has enough nukes to obliterate Russia. 

All this of course is ridiculous because Putin is a huge fiend of Israel and probably has Netanyahu's picture in his bedroom. 

Please dont give Palestinians any more false hope in the form of russia, its just cruel.


----------



## Trango Towers

thetutle said:


> So Russians will now save the Palestinians? since 1948 Palestinians have waited for someone to save them. first it was Arabs, then it was Soviets then it was Saddam hussein, then it was Iran, and now we have truly hit the bottom of the barrel, Putins Russia will save Palestinians?
> 
> How deluded can you get, geez.
> 
> Judging by Russias performance, Israeli airforce is probably stronger than Russias, and Israeli land forces could take russia out very quickly in Syria. Also, Israel has enough nukes to obliterate Russia.
> 
> All this of course is ridiculous because Putin is a huge fiend of Israel and probably has Netanyahu's picture in his bedroom.
> 
> Please dont give Palestinians any more false hope in the form of russia, its just cruel.


As I said bye bye...I am not going to read your crap

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517305797734289409
I think these pundits are reading PDF

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## lightning F57

Dont get why all these western countries are shouting out all the equipment they are giving to the Ukrainians, telling the Russians what the Ukrainians will have IMO is a bad thing from a military standpoint better the enemy dont know what you have. Also all these artillery pieces are going to be sitting ducks given Ukraine does not control the skies.


----------



## sammuel

SalarHaqq said:


> Is this serious?
> 
> View attachment 836738
> 
> 
> 19.160 sorties by Russian fighter jets in Syria over a period of some 15 months, versus more than 100.000 sorties by the US-led coalition in a single month during the 1991 bombardment of Iraq.




So you have claims against the Americans , how does that justify anything the Russians did in Syria and are doing in Ukraine . ?

So because you think the Americans were wrong , now Russians are allowed to do what ever they want ? And that makes what they are doing ok ? NO sir it does not.

Seems some here either suffer from a false logic , or a false moral compass


~

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517420644979384320


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517548050520096770

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517548137832927232


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517549658901516289

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517480203127242752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517474814985973762

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## sammuel

Piotr said:


> Maybe in the western part, certainly not in the eastern part of the former Ukraine
> View attachment 836774



Why you post a map from 2010 ?

Why not 2019 ?







The opposition platform by the way git something like 3% of the votes . . .









2019 Ukrainian parliamentary election - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515833920142684162

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517619632907108353

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517619993852186626

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517596537702035456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517520621378453504


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517536428615475202

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517463129977929730


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## SalarHaqq

sammuel said:


> So you have claims against the Americans , how does that justify anything the Russians did in Syria and are doing in Ukraine . ?
> 
> So because you think the Americans were wrong , now Russians are allowed to do what ever they want ? And that makes what they are doing ok ? NO sir it does not.
> 
> Seems some here either suffer from a false logic , or a false moral campus.



You asked, literally "what some here would say if it was the Americans who carried out such bombing against Muslim cities" while comparing to the Russian campaign in Syria. Fact is the Americans dropped many more bombs on Iraqi cities. It's important to set this straight.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517614886892802048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517436701173460994

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517620670561144833


----------



## RoadAmerica

zartosht said:


> I dont understand how anybody can be on the wests side. Or even defend this western dominated world order
> 
> The “west” and its delusional government/people have to get this ideology of them being the righteous messianic leaders of all mankind. And its their duty to police, and impose their way of life by force
> 
> The western imperial order is over. The US , their intelligence/ media can no longer dictate anything to anybody
> 
> Were living in an era of hypersonic missiles that can literally erase countries in minutss
> 
> The 19th 20th century colonial order is over. Euro sissies and the muricans need to get this thru their thick skulls
> 
> Their colonial era is over. Period. Start respecting other nations, stop threatning their security and live bd let live.


That’s a lot of anger there bud. Era is over 🤣
I’m living just fine in the west thanks.
Oh and China doesn’t do the same 🙄


CAPRICORN-88 said:


> What original question?


where you were from and still waiting


----------



## python-000



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## PakFactor

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517305797734289409
> I think these pundits are reading PDF



That's funny, and I like this as well let them create there narrative and be at each others throats. But you know what @Wood this conflict is good, at-least Europe is finally engaged hope they continue to keep it there.

Someone few hundred posts back someone posted a movie meme, that depicted this, the only ones having a heart attach in the desi-community are the one's who want to show white sab their loyalty, never understood them, just look at Boris pathetic *** running to India "I got my shot from India" looking ***, Lol.

"The Rest" need to keep egging this conflict on as long as possible.

Let these sides continue and we eat pop-corn.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517574762809155587

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517528584923062274

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517475017348558850

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## Hydration

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517596537702035456
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517520621378453504
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517536428615475202
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517463129977929730


so germany did send something other than helmets and blankets, intresting


----------



## Wood

PakFactor said:


> That's funny, and I like this as well let them create there narrative and be at each others throats. But you know what @Wood this conflict is good, at-least Europe is finally engaged hope they continue to keep it there.
> 
> Someone few hundred posts back someone posted a movie meme, that depicted this, the only ones having a heart attach in the desi-community are the one's who want to show white sab their loyalty, never understood them, just look at Boris pathetic *** running to India "I got my shot from India" looking ***, Lol.
> 
> "The Rest" need to keep egging this conflict on as long as possible.
> 
> Let these sides continue and we eat pop-corn.


But this conflict are not good for Ukranians. They want to remain independent and it is their right to keep what is theirs!


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517595114411020288

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## PakFactor

Wood said:


> But this conflict are not good for Ukranians. They want to remain independent and it is their right to keep what is theirs!



Who gives a shit what they want and what's good for them or not bro.
If this was the other way around, with mine and your brown skin in there shoes they wouldn't care, rather they'd bomb you on top, misery welcomes company. The Chinese are smart they say, let them point there guns towards each other so they don't point it towards "the rest" brown or yellow skinned people.

Sanu saa lana ka moka mil gaya, Lol, don't be like our duffar ancestors who wore the British Indian Army clothes with their chicken looking legs and proud of some useless metals the white sab bestowed upon them, those duffars were cannon fodder.

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## Wood

PakFactor said:


> Who gives a shit what they want and what's good for them or not bro.
> If this was the other way around and mine and your brown skin were in there shoes they wouldn't care rather bomb you on top, misery welcomes company. The Chinese are smart let them point there guns towards each other so they don't point it towards "the rest" brown or yellow skinned people.


Sure, the world is a big place. Africa is perpetually on civil war and not much is cared for. That however does not change my opinion on who is in the right and wrong in this conflict.

I've been to Kiev several times and have worked on the office floors in Kiev. Although I'm not in contact with these people anymore (as I was an external consultant), I hope for their safety and support their pursuit for liberty.


----------



## Trango Towers

Wood said:


> But this conflict are not good for Ukranians. They want to remain independent and it is their right to keep what is theirs!


If they wanted to reaming independently why did they want to join nato

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## Wood

Trango Towers said:


> If they wanted to reaming independently why did they want to join nato


I cannot speak for them. But in general, smaller countries tend to align themselves with larger allies when they feel threatened by larger powers. If you look at Ukranian history from before world war 1, they have always been under Russian threat. Russia's invasion of Georgia is the type of thing that will make a country like Ukraine look for larger allies.

In my experience working with Ukranians, they have always been pro western. Even the pro Putin Ukrainians from the Eastern part of the country (that I am in touch as and have worked with) want to settle in US/Canada. Those of them who got here want to move their entire family here somehow. Their attitude is very similar to that of South Asian people.

So take your pick. For security or economic prosperity, it is for them to decide.


----------



## Trango Towers

Wood said:


> I cannot speak for them. But in general, smaller countries tend to align themselves with larger allies when they feel threatened by larger powers. If you look at Ukranian history from before world war 1, they have always been under Russian threat. Russia's invasion of Georgia is the type of thing that will make a country like Ukraine look for larger allies.
> 
> In my experience working with Ukranians, they have always been pro western. Even the pro Putin Ukrainians from the Eastern part of the country (that I am in touch as and have worked with) want to settle in US/Canada. Those of them who got here want to move their entire family here somehow. Their attitude is very similar to that of South Asian people.
> 
> So take your pick. For security or economic prosperity, it is for them to decide.


Russias only demand was for Ukraine to remain independent of NATO. Did u miss this important point?

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## Wood

Trango Towers said:


> Russias only demand was for Ukraine to remain independent of NATO. Did u miss this important point?


Why do they have to trust Russia? A country that they perceive to be an ethno national state?

Will Pakistan be ready to take dictates from India?

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## Trango Towers

Wood said:


> Why do they have to trust Russia? A country that perceive to be an ethno national state?
> 
> Will Pakistan be ready to take dictates from India?


Have you been asleep that you are asking such elementary questions ?

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## Wood

Trango Towers said:


> Have you been asleep that you are asking such elementary questions ?


You are the one asking me questions. I don't want to have a conversation with you at all


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## Trango Towers

Wood said:


> You are the one asking me questions. I don't want to have a conversation with you at all


OK another one to ignore...have a good day

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517628928386600960
🗓 Top News Today

🇷🇺Russian Ministry of Defence launches a new multimedia historical project "Mariupol. Liberation", dedicated to one of the most important episodes of the Donbass operation in 1943

💥The Russian Armed Forces continue to #DemilitariZation of Nazis:
▫️*another high-precision weaponry strike was carried out against the military infrastructure of AFU;
▫️strike by high-precision long-range Kalibr missiles near the railway station of Miliorativnoe destroyed up to a battalion of enemy personnel with weapons and military equipment;
▫️1 Ukrainian Mi-8 helicopter, 1 Buk-M1 surface-to-air missile system and 1 electronic warfare station were destroyed at airfield near Barvenkovo;
▫️footage of a fortified area abandoned by the Armed Forces of Ukraine with dead bodies and military equipment has been published;*
▫️Russian Armed Forces' engineering troops have taken control of the arsenal of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in Kharkov Region.

▫️ All remnants of the Ukrainian Azov Nazis, together with foreign mercenaries from the US and European countries, are securely locked inside the Azovstal plant. Demands that the women and children allegedly with them be released to travel freely in any direction are ignored by Nazis. The procedure for civilians, if there are any, to leave Azovstal for further evacuation is reported to the Nazis every hour.

▫️Mariupol residents were able to move freely through the streets without having to hide from Ukrainian Nazi shelling. Humanitarian aid is being delivered and the DPR authorities are organising the clearing of rubble from the streets.

📑Selected National Guard of Ukraine casualty figures (https://****/mod_russia_en/1044) obtained from actual Ukrainian documents have been published. It discloses significant casualties among military personnel of the military unit 3017.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine

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## Hassan Al-Somal

*The Russian armed forces seized today a huge arsenal from the Ukrainian armed forces in the Kharkiv region!!*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517574992661258243

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517647849764401156


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517655685181415433

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517628928386600960


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517620500515770369

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## CAPRICORN-88

RoadAmerica said:


> where you were from and still waiting


So that is your so-called original question which has nothing to do with the topic and you make a whoaha about it. 

Do you understand what is privacy?

You have asked a personal question which I reserved the right not to respond.

Although I suspects many in here already knew the answer.

All I am prepared to tell you is I am a citizen of a nation whose GDP per capita exceeds those of the US and where we the citizen abides by and respects the laws of the land. 

No. I am neither a Russian nor a Chinese National.


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## CAPRICORN-88

So don't you think it is rather strange when we come across such reports.

I thought the Russians were the bad guys in here and the good guys the Ukrainian Forces and AZOV the defenders get a beating from the locals.

Who should we believe? 

Who is telling the truth?


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## mazeto

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517596537702035456
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517520621378453504
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517536428615475202
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517463129977929730


The NATO is giving such deadly weapons in such numbers that Russia will either get defeated, stalemated, degraded or at best get a pyrrhic victory. 
If they want NATO members to fall out on this policy, they will have to beat them with their own schtick... Anti-aircraft, NLAWs, kamikaze drones " lost" in Ukraine should mysteriously turn up in the hands of Somali militias and pirates, Yemeni militias, Hezbollah and Hamas, Iraqi militias, Mexican cartels, breakaway IRA, Catalonians, Greek Red army etc. 
Somali and Yemeni pirates can easily be persuaded to target shipping to and from NATO with NLAWs for a price for example. 
There can be a hundred variations of accidents.. and used NATO weapons left behind. Russia has basically nothing left to loose at this point... They have been driven to the wall. 
Also, the Chechen footages with takbeers may be good PR with the huge Muslim crowd. They should mention incessantly that Ukraine were part of the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan..

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## gambit

Trango Towers said:


> Russias only demand was for Ukraine to remain independent of NATO. Did u miss this important point?


A gang warned you not to join the other gang. You ignored the warning and applied anyway. But then the other gang rejected you -- twice. Which is more important, the warning or the rejection?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517508571403108354

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## thetutle

Trango Towers said:


> Russias only demand was for Ukraine to remain independent of NATO. Did u miss this important point?


no they want their old borders back. to revive the Russian empire. and Russia will expand to Kazakstan, Azerbaijan. Moldova. and will keep expanding until nato intervenes,.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517617673089298432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517635084404203520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517699919326371846


----------



## thetutle

mazeto said:


> If they want NATO members to fall out on this policy, they will have to beat them with their own schtick... Anti-aircraft, NLAWs, kamikaze drones " lost" in Ukraine should mysteriously turn up in the hands of Somali militias and pirates, Yemeni militias, Hezbollah and Hamas, Iraqi militias


Russian hates these groups as much if not more than the west does, 

Hezbollah gets bombed every day by Israel under Russian air cover.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517574007431774211

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517637619089346564


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517625229807435776

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## The SC

UN refuses to support allegations of 'genocide' in Ukraine


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517707333283028994
The fortification lines of the Azovstal factory would not last long, and the Nazi extremists would have no choice but to surrender or die under siege.. We've closed off all the outlets that can supply them with food and weapons, so they won't last long.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517708035778621440


----------



## Beast

F-22Raptor said:


> If the Ukrainians are getting M777s with digital fire controls, and Excalibur rounds that can be fired in excess of 40km with less than 10m CEPs, a lot of Russian soldiers are going to die.


It's not gonna change anything that mariupol will fall to Russia completely soon.

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## vizier

We see mostly western parts attacked by Kalibr and eastern zone by Russian aircraft. That is a cheaper less risky option by Russia to not risk aircraft and attack significant targets in both zones. Ukraine currently has very scarce Buk systems that seems not to be effective against cms. Their new Mig29s hosting airfields would also probably be targeted by Kalibr soon. Maybe some radar based less costly shorad systems like French Crotale sams can be demanded by Ukraine to protect its fixed assets from Kalibr. This still leaves out zircon and iskander attacks though which would pierce through shorads. Also if Lepen is elected arms supply from France would possibly dwindle as well.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517633167498305537

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517454668934397954


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517677605390065665

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517675075784384515

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517595114411020288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517643683138523136


----------



## Oldman1

Ich said:


> Its old stuff. Even Iran has such drones long time.


Yeah but Ukraine doesn't have such weapon until now. Mostly its drones to help guide their artillery or find the enemy as well as use grenades dropping on top of the Russian forces. The U.S. wants to really see if it helps Ukraine as well as testing ground against a stronger country like Russia to learn from it.

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## The SC

"*The risk of escalation in Ukraine is very high*" Emmanuel Macron


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517487337755877377


----------



## Oldman1

Piotr said:


> USA (comedian Zelensky) call the Russians "orcs". Many people in the former Ukraine greet Russian forces.
> On the other hand more and more people are fed off with USA Bandera forces:
> 
> 
> ^Kiev


I've seen Ukrainian civilians protesting against the Russians. They must be more fed up against the Russians.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517688719360368641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517671371907768328


----------



## Oldman1

Trango Towers said:


> Russias only demand was for Ukraine to remain independent of NATO. Did u miss this important point?


Only? Their actions don't look only on NATO. More like denazify, demilitarize, conquer the country. I mean the Russians just stated what their intentions are which is taking territory from Moldova.












https://www.interfax.ru/world/837353


Moscow. 22 April. INTERFAX.RU - During the second phase of the special operation that began this week, the Russian army plans to establish full control over the Donbass and southern Ukraine, to provide a land corridor to the Crimea, Rustam Minnekaev, acting commander of the Central Military District, said.

"Since the beginning of the second phase of the special operation, it has already begun literally two days ago, one of the tasks of the Russian army is to establish full control over the Donbass and southern Ukraine. This will provide a land corridor to the Crimea, as well as influence the vital objects of the Ukrainian economy," - Minnekaev said at the annual meeting of the Union of Defense Industries of the Sverdlovsk Region on Friday.

*The control of the Russian army over the south of Ukraine will also provide an opportunity to gain access to Transnistria, the Central Military District command said.

"Control over the south of Ukraine is another way out to Transnistria, where there are also facts of oppression of the Russian-speaking population," Minnekaev said.


 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517682529326837761*
Looks like after Ukraine, they want Moldova and then the Baltics.






Look where Kaliningrad is. Why you think the Baltic states are desperate to be part of NATO in the first place and why they support Ukraine with weapons compared to other countries early. They fear they be next. They know it.

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## CAPRICORN-88



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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517609962121351168


----------



## Oldman1

Beast said:


> It's not gonna change anything that mariupol will fall to Russia completely soon.


Maybe not, but all those artillery being provided is going to wreck the Russian Army, I mean just look at what the Ukrainians can do with the artillery they have now.


----------



## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517647849764401156




In other words , the " special operation " is not going well , so they are sending more meat to the meat grinder.

Thanks for the update.

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## Viet

sammuel said:


> In other words , the " special operation " is not going well , so they are sending more meat to the meat grinder.
> 
> Thanks for the update.


Putin recruits young men in Russia, Russian speaking boys from occupied transinia (Moldavia protesting). He seeks young men in Ethiopia, Syria, Libya. Russia war ministry pays $800 for every death.

Not much.

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## CAPRICORN-88

# *The enemies of the US and NATO are not our enemies.





*


----------



## Viet

The great Russo offensive is at Donbas stalling.
Nearly one week has passed just the small village Krimenna is taken.

Mariupol is not falling. Almost after two months.

What we seeing more: more Nazi stories and more terror bombings.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

*So it must be rather humiliating for US Secretary of Economic Yallen when she lead the G7 out of G20 meeting in Indonesia in protest of Russia participation to discover that 2 members are missing. 

Japan and Australia.*

Why didn't they joined the US represented by Yallen?

Each nations have their own interest. And this is not in their interest.

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## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## PakFactor

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *So it must be rather humiliating for US Secretary of Economic Yallen when she lead the G7 out of G20 meeting in Indonesia in protest of Russia participation to discover that 2 members are missing.
> 
> Japan and Australia.*
> 
> Why didn't they joined the US represented by Yallen?
> 
> Each nations have their own interest. And this is not in their interest.



It’s was by far the most stupidest stunt I’ve seen looked like a collective group of dumbasses standing outside.

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## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> A gang warned you not to join the other gang. You ignored the warning and applied anyway. But then the other gang rejected you -- twice. Which is more important, the warning or the rejection?


the situation is more a kin of you are part of a gang , then you want to join a rival gang.
honestly , the situation wont look good for you.

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## gambit

Hack-Hook said:


> the situation is more a kin of you are part of a gang , then you want to join a rival gang.
> honestly , the situation wont look good for you.


Russia does not want Ukraine to join NATO. But NATO rejected -- *TWICE* -- Ukraine. Not only that, at one point, Ukrainian public sentiments were *AGAINST* joining NATO, and this public sentiment is public, meaning Poutine must have known that most Ukrainians just wanted to be solo.

So the question remains, which is more important, the warning or the rejection? It is a simple question.

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## Muhammed45

The fun part of this war, Russia is cruashing the heads of European snakes. From Poland, to Germany and other NATO vassals states. May the force be with them, this war is not that simple, Russia is confronting logistics of the whole. So far USA has sent 1/3rd of its land forces' ATGM reserves to Ukraine and it is just a small part of their waste.

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## Wergeland

Oldman1 said:


> Only? Their actions don't look only on NATO. More like denazify, demilitarize, conquer the country. I mean the Russians just stated what their intentions are which is taking territory from Moldova.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.interfax.ru/world/837353
> 
> 
> Moscow. 22 April. INTERFAX.RU - During the second phase of the special operation that began this week, the Russian army plans to establish full control over the Donbass and southern Ukraine, to provide a land corridor to the Crimea, Rustam Minnekaev, acting commander of the Central Military District, said.
> 
> "Since the beginning of the second phase of the special operation, it has already begun literally two days ago, one of the tasks of the Russian army is to establish full control over the Donbass and southern Ukraine. This will provide a land corridor to the Crimea, as well as influence the vital objects of the Ukrainian economy," - Minnekaev said at the annual meeting of the Union of Defense Industries of the Sverdlovsk Region on Friday.
> 
> *The control of the Russian army over the south of Ukraine will also provide an opportunity to gain access to Transnistria, the Central Military District command said.
> 
> "Control over the south of Ukraine is another way out to Transnistria, where there are also facts of oppression of the Russian-speaking population," Minnekaev said.
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517682529326837761*
> Looks like after Ukraine, they want Moldova and then the Baltics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look where Kaliningrad is. Why you think the Baltic states are desperate to be part of NATO in the first place and why they support Ukraine with weapons compared to other countries early. They fear they be next. They know it.



It is understandable that Baltics provide arms to Ukraine regime. But how smart is it, is another topic.


----------



## Viet

The Pentagon says Ukraine now has more tanks than Russia.

Large parts were taken from the Russia army.

Great stuff.










Erbeutetes Kriegsgerät und Lieferungen: Ukraine soll mittlerweile über mehr Panzer verfügen als Russland


Durch Lieferungen des Westens und erbeutetes Gerät ergeben sich inzwischen wohl Waffenvorteile für die Ukraine. Über Details ist aber wenig bekannt.




amp.tagesspiegel.de

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## Hassan Al-Somal

sammuel said:


> In other words , the " special operation " is not going well , so they are sending more meat to the meat grinder.
> 
> Thanks for the update.



If you see volunteers, not conscripts, it means the war is going is well and ordinary people are enthusiastic about joining it. Being the one of the most battle-hardened and patriotic people on earth, the Russian people are rising up to the challenge and the call to defend their homeland.

It is safe to say you have a weird way of reasoning.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517773021875953667

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517693027472805888

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## Viet

Muhammed45 said:


> The fun part of this war, Russia is cruashing the heads of European snakes. From Poland, to Germany and other NATO vassals states. May the force be with them, this war is not that simple, Russia is confronting logistics of the whole. So far USA has sent 1/3rd of its land forces' ATGM reserves to Ukraine and it is just a small part of their waste.


But the people in those vassals states have much better lives than Russians ever dream of. Those vassals can fly to every place on the planet while free Russians can’t fly anywhere.
Russian ships can’t sail. Russian banks can’t operate. Russian money is seized. Everything is closed off.
Don’t worry about US running out of ammo. If running in full mode US factories can make more ammo and weapons than all countries in the NATO combined.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517769807059460097

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## Muhammed45

Viet said:


> But the people in those vassals states have much better lives than Russians ever dream of. Those vassals can fly to every place on the planet while free Russians can’t fly anywhere.


What is your point with this non sense? go fly to wherever you like for all i Care. We are talking about the ongoing war, not the living standards of different countries. If you like this Subject go open a thread and boast about German living standards and i would personally admire it. 



Viet said:


> Russian ships can’t sail. Russian banks can’t operate. Russian money is seized. Everything is closed off.


You don't expect flowers when at war, do you? 
It is the consequence of wars, Russians have done so well so far. Defusing the Effects of western sanctions is on their top priority. 



Viet said:


> Don’t worry about US running out of ammo. If running in full mode US factories can make more ammo and weapons than all countries in the NATO combined.


No worries, just sit and watch ending of Condoleezza Rice's desired world order.

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## Ali_Baba

Russia’s 110-Year-Old Salvage Ship Deploying To Moskva Wreck​








Russia's 110-Year-Old Salvage Ship Deploying To Moskva Wreck: Report


Kommuna, an antique Russian Navy salvage ship, has embarked on a mission to investigate a potential salvage operation for the Moskva wreck.




www.thedrive.com





OMG OMG OMG - they have an active ship that is over 100 years old - what a piece of junk - and shows how much junk Russia relies on..

Are there many ships in the world that are that old and still active ?? 

( mind blown...)

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## Vergennes

Ali_Baba said:


> Russia’s 110-Year-Old Salvage Ship Deploying To Moskva Wreck​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia's 110-Year-Old Salvage Ship Deploying To Moskva Wreck: Report
> 
> 
> Kommuna, an antique Russian Navy salvage ship, has embarked on a mission to investigate a potential salvage operation for the Moskva wreck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OMG OMG OMG - they have an active ship that is over 100 years old - what a piece of junk - and shows how much junk Russia relies on..
> 
> Are there many ships in the world that are that old and still active ??
> 
> ( mind blown...)



When you see the state of the Russian armed forces despite hundreds of billions of $ spent on its "modernization",you keep asking yourself where most of that money went.... 

"The Moskva was an old ship anyway".... most of the Russian navy is composed of old junk anyway.

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## A.P. Richelieu

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Hello Hello
> 
> Read more before opining.
> 
> *The main point of Minsk II is AUTONOMY for these Eastern Province.
> 
> Not secessionism then as it is today in failing to comply. *
> 
> If it is blocked by Russia as fabricated by you then the Minsk II agreement would not have been signed by Ukraine and the Eastern Provinces back in 2014.
> 
> Russia was just one of the witnesses and has basically no say in the agreement.
> 
> *That is because since 2014, the regime that usurped the power in Kiev send in their killer AZOV neo-nazi batallion.*


Russia has interfered since 2014. Russians mercenaries have been active even though they should leave Ukraine according to the agreement.


----------



## Paul2

@jhungary a month has passed. Can we have an update from you?

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## Viet

Muhammed45 said:


> What is your point with this non sense? go fly to wherever you like for all i Care. We are talking about the ongoing war, not the living standards of different countries. If you like this Subject go open a thread and boast about German living standards and i would personally admire it.
> 
> 
> You don't expect flowers when at war, do you?
> It is the consequence of wars, Russians have done so well so far. Defusing the Effects of western sanctions is on their top priority.
> 
> 
> No worries, just sit and watch ending of Condoleezza Rice's desired world order.


Yes I question why Putin leads Russia to war? What the goals? If we put this de-nazi shit aside then we see the result of this war: he destroys Ukraine he destroys Russia. He kills hundreds thousands. He wipes out 30y economic progress, pushing all foreigners out, making Russia to a open prison.


----------



## Primus



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## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> If you see volunteers, not conscripts, it means the war is going is well and ordinary people are enthusiastic about joining it. Being the one of the most battle-hardened and patriotic people on earth, the Russian people are rising up to the challenge and the call to defend their homeland.
> 
> It is safe to say you have a weird way of reasoning.


”Hundreds” of volunteers in a nation with a hundred million citizens is embarrassing.


----------



## Muhammed45

Viet said:


> Yes I question why Putin leads Russia to war?


But you don't Ask why Zelenskyy provoked Russia on behalf of NATO? Talk about hypocrisy



Viet said:


> : he destroys Ukraine he destroys Russia. He kills hundreds thousands. He wipes out 30y economic progress, pushing all foreigners out, making Russia to a open prison.


Russia is coming eastwards. This is the question that you need to Ask from western warmongers, why are they alienating Russia?

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## Viet

Muhammed45 said:


> But you don't Ask why Zelenskyy provoked Russia on behalf of NATO? Talk about hypocrisy
> 
> 
> Russia is coming eastwards. This is the question that you need to Ask from western warmongers, why are they alienating Russia?


What provocation? Are you some sorts of Erdogan, putting people in prison if they say something critical?

You come stealing others people ‘s shoes because Ukraine wants security and prosperity in joining NATO and EU?

Using Nazi, Nato is nothing more than pretexts.


----------



## nangyale

gambit said:


> Actually, no.
> 
> First, you must present the Geneva Convention of what make a *LEGAL* combatant.
> 
> Then, you must show how the Ukrainian Army and Ukrainian resistance fighters *DO NOT* conform to the Geneva Convention standards.
> 
> We did not simply called any resistance fighter 'illegal combatant'.


So enlighten us please. How many resistance fighters in Afghanistan you treated as legal formations and treated according to Geneva convention.

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## thetutle

Viet said:


> What provocation? Are you some sorts of Erdogan, putting people in prison if they say something critical?
> 
> You come stealing others people ‘s shoes because Ukraine wants security and prosperity in joining NATO and EU?
> 
> Using Nazi, Nato is nothing more than pretexts.


What he's saying is that anyone that provokes any country should get invaded. And presumably anyone ever invaded has provoked the invasion.


----------



## Viet

thetutle said:


> What he's saying is that anyone that provokes any country should get invaded. And presumably anyone ever invaded has provoked the invasion.


Certainly a rapist will accuse the women she provoked him. A looter will accuse the shop owner his shop has the newest iPhone. As per eyewitness and victim reports Russian soldiers are as looters and rapists.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517853198962368515

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517854246011641856I think Russia will create such proxy companies to side step the technology ban. Because of the free access to Western tech. so far, the Russians may not have needed them. But now, they are completely dependent upon them for everything. So the old Soviet ways of importing from the west will be realised again. It may take a while, but will happen nevertheless 🤔

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## RoadAmerica

Trango Towers said:


> Russias only demand was for Ukraine to remain independent of NATO. Did u miss this important point?


See that’s the point you’re missing, who is Russia to demand what sovereign Ukraine does? Border/sphere of influence doesn’t matter, Ukraine is independent and choose their own destiny

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517644618980073472

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517724404612018177

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517724408047181824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517724410316312577

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517724414300889088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517724416284798978

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517814496349335552

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517837385999994886

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## WotTen

RoadAmerica said:


> See that’s the point you’re missing, who is Russia to demand what sovereign Ukraine does? Border/sphere of influence doesn’t matter, Ukraine is independent and choose their own destiny



Ironic, coming from an American.









US warns Solomon Islands over China pact; will fast track new embassy


American officials told Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare the security pact between Solomon Islands and China has security risks for the region.




www.smh.com.au





*Washington:*_ The US will expedite the opening of an embassy in the Solomon Islands and has warned the Pacific nation that it will “respond accordingly” if steps are taken allowing China to establish a military base there._

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## F-22Raptor

There's now reports that the US has provided M142 HIMARS rocket systems to Ukraine.

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## Vergennes

@F-22Raptor 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517841336648491009

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## thetutle

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517853198962368515
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517854246011641856I think Russia will create such proxy companies to side step the technology ban. Because of the free access to Western tech. so far, the Russians may not have needed them. But now, they are completely dependent upon them for everything. So the old Soviet ways of importing from the west will be realised again. It may take a while, but will happen nevertheless 🤔


My parents work in high tech manufacturing in the US in the 90's and when I was a kid I went through their documents there was a list of countries that it was prohibited to take anything to, even a manual. I dont remember them all except that they have all had regime change so far. One of the was certainly russia. This was when there were no sanctions against russia.

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> There's now reports that the US has provided M142 HIMARS rocket systems to Ukraine.



Very significant if true as the range on the M142 HIMARS is massive - it means Russian Armed forces have no "rear" as everything is in range.

This may be the precursor to destroying the bridge that connects Crimea to Russia.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517882582809165824

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## thetutle

WotTen said:


> Ironic, coming from an American.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US warns Solomon Islands over China pact; will fast track new embassy
> 
> 
> American officials told Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare the security pact between Solomon Islands and China has security risks for the region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.smh.com.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Washington:*_ The US will expedite the opening of an embassy in the Solomon Islands and has warned the Pacific nation that it will “respond accordingly” if steps are taken allowing China to establish a military base there._


This needs its own thread. I can see the irony, but if that Solomon Islands decision was approved due to corruption then all bets are off. 

I dont think australia will invade, beacuse he will be removed soon, but according to Russian principles, invasion is totally justified.


----------



## Clutch

Wood said:


> Russian pundits foaming about erasing NYC with a 7.5 MT nuke



I remember during the Iraq quagmire American news pundits were having a similar giggle and discussion on live TV (Fox) about nuking Iraqi cities.... I guess that doesn't count because they were targeting less-human brownies????

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517716655731875841
Now there is talk of nuking UK. Funny to see these hawks keeping track of Boris Johnson's visit to India

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## thetutle

Ali_Baba said:


> Very significant if true as the range on the M142 HIMARS is massive - it means Russian Armed forces have no "rear" as everything is in range.
> 
> This may be the precursor to destroying the bridge that connects Crimea to Russia.


Very much so. A significant strategic weapon. 300km precision range.


----------



## WotTen

thetutle said:


> This needs its own thread. I can see the irony, but if that Solomon Islands decision was approved due to corruption then all bets are off.
> 
> I dont think australia will invade, beacuse he will be removed soon, but according to Russian principles, invasion is totally justified.



Australia was supposed to take care of business as America's Deputy Sheriff in the region, but US had to get involved because Scotty from marketing screwed up.

Neither Australia nor US will invade. Military invasions are for incompetent fools like Putin. Democratic countries handle regime change the smart way by buying media, opposition politicians, and unemployed troublemakers to create 'color revolutions'.

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## F-22Raptor

Ali_Baba said:


> Very significant if true as the range on the M142 HIMARS is massive - it means Russian Armed forces have no "rear" as everything is in range.
> 
> This may be the precursor to destroying the bridge that connects Crimea to Russia.



I haven't seen it confirmed yet. I'm wondering if they wanted to keep this one quiet. 

But HIMARS would do massive damage to Russian forces. Guided rockets over 70km+ and ATACMS missiles at 300km.


----------



## Wood

Clutch said:


> I remember during the Iraq quagmire American news pundits were having a similar giggle and discussion on live TV (Fox) about nuking Iraqi cities.... I guess that doesn't count because they were targeting less-human brownies????


No nukes please. Enough conventional missiles are available to kill everyone. Nukes will even kill future generation

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## thetutle

Clutch said:


> I remember during the Iraq quagmire American news pundits were having a similar giggle and discussion on live TV (Fox) about nuking Iraqi cities.... I guess that doesn't count because they were targeting less-human brownies????


But now you realise there is nothing wrong with that?



WotTen said:


> Australia was supposed to take care of business as America's Deputy Sheriff in the region, but US had to get involved because Scotty from marketing screwed up.
> 
> Neither Australia nor US will invade. Military invasions are for incompetent fools like Putin. Democratic countries handle regime change the smart way by buying media, opposition politicians, and unemployed troublemakers to create 'color revolutions'.


Agreed, Solomon Islands citizens like burning Chinese shops and businesses even before this. Wont take much to set them off. If china interferes in their elections next year the US might arm them with molotov cocktails to cause even more damage next time they attack Chinatown in Honiara.


----------



## gambit

nangyale said:


> So enlighten us please. How many resistance fighters in Afghanistan you treated as legal formations and treated according to Geneva convention.


There is this wonderful American invention call 'the internet' and part of that is another wonderful invention call 'keyword search'. For example: geneva convention combatant status.


----------



## thetutle

Wood said:


> No nukes please. Enough conventional missiles are available to kill everyone. Nukes will even kill future generation


Actually, the amount of fissile radioactive material in a nuke is pretty small. Explosion and burns will be the main killer. Dont trust the climate change guys who think there will be a nuclear winter. You can't predict the climate when you cant predict a 7 day weather forecast.


----------



## WotTen

Wood said:


> Now there is talk of nuking UK.



Fictional nuclear war between Russia and UK.


----------



## Clutch

thetutle said:


> But now you realise there is nothing wrong with that



I just say what goes around comes around....

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## gambit

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> If you see *volunteers*, not conscripts, it means the war is going is well and ordinary people are enthusiastic about joining it. Being the one of the most battle-hardened and patriotic people on earth, the Russian people are rising up to the challenge and the call to defend their homeland.
> 
> It is safe to say you have a weird way of reasoning.


Volunteers? More like *VOLUN-TOLDS*.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517879928502591489


----------



## WotTen

thetutle said:


> Agreed, Solomon Islands citizens like burning Chinese shops and businesses even before this. Wont take much to set them off. If china interferes in their elections next year the US might arm them with molotov cocktails to cause even more damage next time they attack Chinatown in Honiara.



Those riots are the reason for the defence pact in the first place. Solomon Islands government and China are of the opinion that those anti-China riots were sponsored by Australia and the US.

P.S. Apparently there is some ethnic conflict behind those riots and the ethnic tensions were being exploited and promoted by the, uh, liberal democratic free world.


----------



## Clutch

Wood said:


> Why do they have to trust Russia? A country that they perceive to be an ethno national state?
> 
> Will Pakistan be ready to take dictates from India?



Yes Pakistan will.vas long as Indians come with bags of $$$ for the parliament and Supreme Court ... And a letter from America for the Pakistani Military Command.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

A.P. Richelieu said:


> ”Hundreds” of volunteers in a nation with a hundred million citizens is embarrassing.




Embarrassing of what?

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## Paul2

No news today. Yesterdays front wide push died down


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517795345132044290

Patron is a star and a good boy


----------



## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517878944292294656


Please tell us what they are going to use them for.



WotTen said:


> Those riots are the reason for the defence pact in the first place. Solomon Islands government and China are of the opinion that those anti-China riots were sponsored by Australia and the US.
> 
> P.S. Apparently there is some ethnic conflict behind those riots and the ethnic tensions were being exploited and promoted by the, uh, liberal democratic free world.


Next, the rioters will be called Nazis. Black Nazis. 

We all know what those Chinese businesses are doing there. The locals know it too and they dont want china or their meddling.


----------



## Trango Towers

RoadAmerica said:


> See that’s the point you’re missing, who is Russia to demand what sovereign Ukraine does? Border/sphere of influence doesn’t matter, Ukraine is independent and choose their own destiny


The point you didn't even understand was that Ukraine agreed to this when Russia gave it its independence. Now before imposing your limited opinion wouldn't it be better to understand the situation.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517851354122924038

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517849629223759872

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## thetutle

Trango Towers said:


> The point you didn't even understand was that Ukraine agreed to this when Russia gave it its independence. Now before imposing your limited opinion wouldn't it be better to understand the situation.


so if you were colonised once, you have to obey the promises you made to your coloniser forever? you sure you want that system?


----------



## Trango Towers

thetutle said:


> so if you were colonised once, you have to obey the promises you made to your coloniser forever? you sure you want that system?


Do u understand what an agreement is.
It's the west that pushed Ukraine promising it nato protection. Then now Boris Johnson said NATO was never on the cards. 
Russia warned Ukraine of its obligation as per the agreement for 25 years.

Now please stop arguing when u have no knowledge. Emotional phrases like 'colonised once' have no place here .

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517846142482014221

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517871327654424576

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## nangyale

gambit said:


> There is this wonderful American invention call 'the internet' and part of that is another wonderful invention call 'keyword search'. For example: geneva convention combatant status.


There are also these wonderful all American theme parks of Gitmo, Abu Gharib, Bagram and many more.

Why don't you use your great American invention and see what you find.

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## thetutle

Trango Towers said:


> Do u understand what an agreement is.
> It's the west that pushed Ukraine promising it nato protection. Then now Boris Johnson said NATO was never on the cards.
> Russia warned Ukraine of its obligation as per the agreement for 25 years.
> 
> Now please stop arguing when u have no knowledge. Emotional phrases like 'colonised once' have no place here .


agreement written nowhere. membership never promised. if you believe in the westphalian system of sovereignty then everyone Cana do what they like. If you dont, thats fine as well. but beware of the consequences,


----------



## Trango Towers

thetutle said:


> agreement written nowhere. membership never promised. if you believe in the westphalian system of sovereignty then everyone Cana do what they like. If you dont, thats fine as well. but beware of the consequences,


OK...carry on

Fact on the ground are that Russia took action and now Ukraine is in a mess. Enjoy your ranting. Reality is reality

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517860284538695680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517900008380579843

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517858670251589633

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517853534041030657

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## thetutle

Trango Towers said:


> OK...carry on
> 
> Fact on the ground are that Russia took action and now Ukraine is inappropriate mess. Enjoy your ranting. Reality is reality


yeah well, we shall see the consequences of their actions in due time, Ukraine is obviously as you say in a mess. but all that matters to the west is the final outcome and the damage it does to russia. And it will be huge.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517899219142594563

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517894559996518400


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517874685161189376

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517896339866230784

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## gambit

nangyale said:


> There are also these wonderful all American theme parks of Gitmo, Abu Gharib, Bagram and many more.
> 
> Why don't you use your great American invention and see what you find.


Third Geneva.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517887616812818432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517887282849665024

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517874685161189376



Russians strike civilian targets and at their defence briefings will claim they destroyed Ukrainian military targets and killed trillions of Ukrainian soldiers.

Russians behaviors are similar to those of savages. Targeting civilians is probably due to frustration of not achieving their military objectives. Similar behaviors in Syria,Chechnya...

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517886196432711681

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> Russians strike civilian targets and at their defence briefings will claim they destroyed Ukrainian military targets and killed trillions of Ukrainian soldiers.
> 
> Russians behaviors are similar to those of savages. Targeting civilians is probably due to frustration of not achieving their military objectives. Similar behaviors in Syria,Chechnya...




Their targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure everyday. There's enormous amount of video evidence. Its obvious genocide and crimes against humanity.

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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517851354122924038
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1MM4y1F72b/? 

A full body katyusha to delight and enlightened the Nazis of Ukraine and keeping them not getting older forever .

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517814757318877186

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## Trango Towers

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517814757318877186


Why does Ukraine keep losing ground if they arevdestroying Russians so easily.
Also this picture is old the truck is covered in rust. That doesn't happen immediately

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## jamal18

A commentary on the overall political situation . About 1 hour, not essential viewing.

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## RescueRanger

Huffal said:


> I thought they had run out of supplies in the factory (food and ammo)?


They were re-supplied but no news agency has covered this re-supply mission yet.



Viet said:


> No
> Much like Vietcong tunnels during the war, kilometer long with supply with everything you need to sustain enemy assaults.
> The Azoz can hold on. They will bleed out the Russians and their paid fighters from Syria, Libya, Checkens.
> The steel factories have tunnels, bunkers, supply routes.
> The longer the Azoz keeps defending the better. large parts of Russo army can’t launch the joint attack at Donbas.
> 
> 
> View attachment 836704


Lol I remember graphics like this during the Afghan conflict, far from the truth. In reality, there are several "basements" with corridors where people are holed up. But this Graphic is typical of the press to "dress" things up.


----------



## Vergennes

Trango Towers said:


> Why does Ukraine keep losing ground if they arevdestroying Russians so easily.
> Also this picture is old the truck is covered in rust. That doesn't happen immediately



Russian army retreated the entire Kyiv,Chernihiv,Sumy regions,they are stuck near Kherson,their offensive towards Mikolayiv and Kharkiv was defeated....

Despite the "second phase" of the operation and their massive firepower amassed in the east they haven't been able to make major gains,just capturing some villages... which are still contested.

Russians haven't been able to make major gains despite their dozens of BTGs coupled with DNR/LNR battalions,Kadyrov batallions,wagner amassed in the east.

Ukrainians are even conducting counter attacks and given the west is now sending heavy weapons and modern artillery systems things are going to be even more difficult for the Russians.

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## Viet

Ukraine army receives new type of drones from Germany. Vector drone.









German drone to direct Ukrainian fire from the skies


A German reconnaissance drone worth £166,000 has been delivered to Ukrainian troops defending the central city of Dnipro. The Vector, made by Quantum Systems, h




www.thetimes.co.uk











The Vector has a wingspan of nearly three metres and its laser rangefinder can be used to direct artillery fire.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517922606455959552

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> If you see volunteers, not conscripts, it means the war is going is well and ordinary people are enthusiastic about joining it. Being the one of the most battle-hardened and patriotic people on earth, the Russian people are rising up to the challenge and the call to defend their homeland.
> 
> It is safe to say you have a weird way of reasoning.



As one member said "hundreds" of volunteers for a nation of over 100 million citizens is embarrassing and laughable.

"Battle hardened and patriotic people on earth". LMAO. Maybe it was true for those who lived under soviet times but new russian generations and young people are part of the apple/netflix/mcdonald/starbucks generation...... they're used to the western way of life,they own western brands,eat western brands,watch western movies....

if you think nowadays russians will be used to harsh poverty and labor like under soviet or tsarist times you are clearly mistaken LMAO.

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> Russian army retreated the entire Kyiv,Chernihiv,Sumy regions,they are stuck near Kherson,their offensive towards Mikolayiv and Kharkiv was defeated....
> 
> Despite the "second phase" of the operation and their massive firepower amassed in the east they haven't been able to make major gains,just capturing some villages... which are still contested.
> 
> Russians haven't been able to make major gains despite their dozens of BTGs coupled with DNR/LNR battalions,Kadyrov batallions,wagner amassed in the east.
> 
> Ukrainians are even conducting counter attacks and given the west is now sending heavy weapons and modern artillery systems things are going to be even more difficult for the Russians.




What the Russian trolls can't accept is that the Ukrainians will be better armed in the weeks ahead than they were 4-6 weeks ago.

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## Viet

Like on a Turkish Basar

Germany makes a panzer swap deal with Eastern Europe.

The partners immediately deliver Soviet made T72 tanks to Ukraine.

Then they will be later compensated by German tanks Leopard, Puma and Boxer.
















Waffen für die Ukraine: Was ein Panzer-Ringtausch bringen soll


Im Streit um die Lieferung schwerer Waffen an die Ukraine gerät Kanzler Scholz zunehmend unter Druck. Doch was hat Deutschland bereits geliefert, wer fordert was - und was bringt ein Ringtausch von Panzern?




www.tagesschau.de


----------



## Viet

Germany tank maker Rheinmetall says it can deliver 100 Marder infantry tanks to Ukraine within weeks.

Now the government national security council has to decide go or no-go. Hopefully FDP/Green can convince the Zauderer and weakling Olaf Scholz.






__





Medienbericht: Rheinmetall will 100 Marder-Panzer an Ukraine liefern






amp.rundschau-online.de











Bundeswehrsoldaten verladen Schützenpanzer des Typs Marder (Archivbild)

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517931768933924865

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## Avicenna

WotTen said:


> Ironic, coming from an American.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US warns Solomon Islands over China pact; will fast track new embassy
> 
> 
> American officials told Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare the security pact between Solomon Islands and China has security risks for the region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.smh.com.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Washington:*_ The US will expedite the opening of an embassy in the Solomon Islands and has warned the Pacific nation that it will “respond accordingly” if steps are taken allowing China to establish a military base there._



Kind of a big deal.

Again the double standards and hypocrisy will be lost on the Zelensky pom pom squad here.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

[23.04.2022 19:44]

Briefing of the Russian Ministry of Defense 

◽️The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue a special military operation in Ukraine.

*This afternoon, high-precision long-range air-launched missiles of the Russian Aerospace Forces disabled a logistics terminal at a military airfield near ODESSA, where a large batch of foreign weapons received from the United States and European countries was stored.*


*During the day, 22 military facilities of Ukraine were hit by high-precision air-launched missiles of the Russian Aerospace Forces. Including: two command and observation posts of the battalion and one command post of the brigade, 11 strong points, as well as places of concentration of manpower and military equipment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The losses of the nationalists amounted to up to 200 personnel and more than 30 armored vehicles and vehicles. In the districts of ILYCHEVKA and KRAMATORSK, three warehouses of weapons, military equipment and ammunition were destroyed. In the area of the settlement NOVAYA DMITROVKA, as a result of the strike, the Buk M1 anti-aircraft missile system and three radar stations were destroyed.

During the day, operational-tactical and army aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces hit 79 military facilities of Ukraine. Among them: six command posts, 52 areas of concentration of manpower and Ukrainian military equipment, as well as 16 warehouses of rocket and artillery weapons, ammunition and fuel. Four anti-aircraft missile systems were destroyed: three Buk-M1 in the area of the settlements of KURAKHOVKA and ROMANOVKA, as well as one anti-aircraft missile system "Tor" in the SERGEEVKA area.

Russian air defense systems in the areas of IZYUM and KHERSON settlements destroyed three Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles, including one Bayraktar TB-2 over the settlement of LOZOVAYA, Kharkiv region.

Rocket troops and artillery completed 102 fire missions during the day. 
Destroyed: 6 command posts, 84 strongholds and areas of accumulation of manpower and military equipment, as well as 10 artillery batteries.*

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## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517922606455959552


That will be big gifts for Zelenski: more weapons, more money for Ukraine. More sanctions, more isolation for Russia.
Putin is a poker player he puts the entire Russo land army into Ukraine, 85 battalions alone at Donbas. There is nothing left. No reserves. Zero. If now Japan or China attack the east, oh well.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517921197752733696

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## Trango Towers

Vergennes said:


> Russian army retreated the entire Kyiv,Chernihiv,Sumy regions,they are stuck near Kherson,their offensive towards Mikolayiv and Kharkiv was defeated....
> 
> Despite the "second phase" of the operation and their massive firepower amassed in the east they haven't been able to make major gains,just capturing some villages... which are still contested.
> 
> Russians haven't been able to make major gains despite their dozens of BTGs coupled with DNR/LNR battalions,Kadyrov batallions,wagner amassed in the east.
> 
> Ukrainians are even conducting counter attacks and given the west is now sending heavy weapons and modern artillery systems things are going to be even more difficult for the Russians.


Yes clearly Ukraine has won and it occupies Russia

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## lightning F57

Avicenna said:


> Kind of a big deal.
> 
> Again the double standards and hypocrisy will be lost on the Zelensky pom pom squad here.


This I do find amusing. 20 odd years the US ignored the Soloman Islands, now China has a security pact with them they are rushing to upgrade and open their spy operation called an embassy. You can see the laughable double standards here when this base will be 1000s miles away from the US its putting them in panic mode courting openly Ukraine who is next door to Russia is ok though and then the Russians respond.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Top News Today - 04/22/2022

🇷🇺Russian Ministry of Defence launches a new multimedia historical project "Mariupol. Liberation", dedicated to one of the most important episodes of the Donbass operation in 1943

💥*The Russian Armed Forces continue to #DemilitariZation of Nazis:*
▫️another high-precision weaponry strike was carried out against the military infrastructure of AFU;
▫️strike by high-precision long-range Kalibr missiles near the railway station of Miliorativnoe destroyed up to a battalion of enemy personnel with weapons and military equipment;
▫️1 Ukrainian Mi-8 helicopter, 1 Buk-M1 surface-to-air missile system and 1 electronic warfare station were destroyed at airfield near Barvenkovo;
▫️footage of a fortified area abandoned by the Armed Forces of Ukraine with dead bodies and military equipment has been published;
▫️Russian Armed Forces' engineering troops have taken control of the arsenal of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in Kharkov Region.

▫️ All remnants of the Ukrainian Azov Nazis, together with foreign mercenaries from the US and European countries, are securely locked inside the Azovstal plant. Demands that the women and children allegedly with them be released to travel freely in any direction are ignored by Nazis. The procedure for civilians, if there are any, to leave Azovstal for further evacuation is reported to the Nazis every hour.

▫️Mariupol residents were able to move freely through the streets without having to hide from Ukrainian Nazi shelling. Humanitarian aid is being delivered and the DPR authorities are organising the clearing of rubble from the streets.

📑Selected National Guard of Ukraine casualty figures obtained from actual Ukrainian documents have been published. It discloses significant casualties among military personnel of the military unit 3017.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine
@mod_russia_en

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## The SC

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> [23.04.2022 19:44]
> 
> Briefing of the Russian Ministry of Defense
> 
> ◽️The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue a special military operation in Ukraine.
> 
> *This afternoon, high-precision long-range air-launched missiles of the Russian Aerospace Forces disabled a logistics terminal at a military airfield near ODESSA, where a large batch of foreign weapons received from the United States and European countries was stored.*
> 
> 
> *During the day, 22 military facilities of Ukraine were hit by high-precision air-launched missiles of the Russian Aerospace Forces. Including: two command and observation posts of the battalion and one command post of the brigade, 11 strong points, as well as places of concentration of manpower and military equipment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The losses of the nationalists amounted to up to 200 personnel and more than 30 armored vehicles and vehicles. In the districts of ILYCHEVKA and KRAMATORSK, three warehouses of weapons, military equipment and ammunition were destroyed. In the area of the settlement NOVAYA DMITROVKA, as a result of the strike, the Buk M1 anti-aircraft missile system and three radar stations were destroyed.*
> 
> *During the day, operational-tactical and army aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces hit 79 military facilities of Ukraine. Among them: six command posts, 52 areas of concentration of manpower and Ukrainian military equipment, as well as 16 warehouses of rocket and artillery weapons, ammunition and fuel. Four anti-aircraft missile systems were destroyed: three Buk-M1 in the area of the settlements of KURAKHOVKA and ROMANOVKA, as well as one anti-aircraft missile system "Tor" in the SERGEEVKA area.*
> 
> *Russian air defense systems in the areas of IZYUM and KHERSON settlements destroyed three Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles, including one Bayraktar TB-2 over the settlement of LOZOVAYA, Kharkiv region.
> 
> Rocket troops and artillery completed 102 fire missions during the day.
> Destroyed: 6 command posts, 84 strongholds and areas of accumulation of manpower and military equipment, as well as 10 artillery batteries.*


*Urgent.. The Russian army achieves a crushing victory over Ukraine and controls the most dangerous strategic location*

The war between Russia and Ukraine continues and the Russian army controls strategic heights in Lugansk,. Russian tanks, the Russian Air Force, the Kalibr missile forces and the Russian Iskander missiles hit the Ukrainian army targets in Kyiv, Kharkov, Odessa, Mariupol .. and many more other places..








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517951139207163906

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## F-22Raptor

Trango Towers said:


> Yes clearly Ukraine has won and it occupies Russia




The problem for Russia is that Ukraine will be better armed in the weeks ahead than they were 4-6 weeks ago. Russia will continue to get wrecked with little in reserves. 

Ukraine has now achieved tank parity, and now their towed howitzers are better in quality than Russias. Russias artillery advantage is shrinking.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517580206420152322

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517878219189493762

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517947466229948417
Russian losses are now over 3,100.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517914230405672960


----------



## Type59

F-22Raptor said:


> The problem for Russia is that Ukraine will be better armed in the weeks ahead than they were 4-6 weeks ago. Russia will continue to get wrecked with little in reserves.
> 
> Ukraine has now achieved tank parity, and now their towed howitzers are better in quality than Russias. Russias artillery advantage is shrinking.



IMO that's wishful thinking. Time will tell, the war has become a slow grind. Losing well trained men can't be magically replaced in a month.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517836883640070144

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517879620384837638


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517878492397977602

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517946849197535233


----------



## K_Bin_W

The SC said:


> *Urgent.. The Russian army achieves a crushing victory over Ukraine and controls the most dangerous strategic location*
> 
> The war between Russia and Ukraine continues and the Russian army controls strategic heights in Lugansk,. Russian tanks, the Russian Air Force, the Kalibr missile forces and the Russian Iskander missiles hit the Ukrainian army targets in Kyiv, Kharkov, Odessa, Mariupol .. and many more other places..


By all accounts Ukr is finished, it will now be asymatrical warfare.

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## Trango Towers

F-22Raptor said:


> The problem for Russia is that Ukraine will be better armed in the weeks ahead than they were 4-6 weeks ago. Russia will continue to get wrecked with little in reserves.
> 
> Ukraine has now achieved tank parity, and now their towed howitzers are better in quality than Russias. Russias artillery advantage is shrinking.


Looool and Russia isn't holding back is it. Imagine Russia prepared to fight nato. If it unleashes its military no holds barred and scortch earth policy, Ukraine will last a week and no one will help

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517907892904595456


K_Bin_W said:


> By all accounts Ukr is finished, it will now be asymatrical warfare.


Yes absolutely true.. I just read an interesting report about that..saying the Russians are masters at asymmetrical warfare..


----------



## Soldier35

attack pitch-up by Ka-52 and Mi-28N helicopters. The attack in this mode is used by Russian helicopters in Ukraine. This mode allows you to launch an attack with unguided S-8 missiles without entering the air defense zone of Ukraine. Before launching an attack, the pilot increases the angle of elevation of the nose of the aircraft, simultaneously releasing unguided missiles. According to approximate calculations, two helicopters with a full set of missiles can hit an area the size of a football field.






On April 22, Ukraine attempted to break through to Russia with tanks in the Goptovka area, this is a checkpoint on the Ukrainian-Russian border in the Dergachev district of the Kharkov region. The equipment was moving from the village of Svetlichnoye towards Kazachya Lopan. The Russian armed forces recorded a column of about 15 armored vehicles. Fire was opened, as a result of which 6 units of Ukrainian equipment were hit and destroyed by anti-tank missile systems, the remaining ones were fired from MLRS. At the moment, the Russian border checkpoint Nekhoteevka is closed until further notice. This was reported by war correspondent Yuri Kotenok.






Ukrainian troops fired again at the Russian border checkpoint in the Kursk region. The governor of the Kursk region said that today from the side of Ukraine mortars fired again at the checkpoint on the border in the Glushkovsky district of the Kursk region. As a result, the premises of the Rosselkhoznadzor caught fire, and some sources also report damage to the customs post, mill and railway bridge. The shelling was carried out from the side of the Sumy region of Ukraine.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517871327654424576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517866651768786946

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517627563455266817

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517818408624078849

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517909771298430982

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517909460324392960


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## Trango Towers

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517818408624078849
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517909771298430982
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517909460324392960


War is truly horrible

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517908244097900544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517908574743277573

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517905604928491520


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517906519022620673


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517904692684238850


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517858670251589633


----------



## F-22Raptor

Type59 said:


> IMO that's wishful thinking. Time will tell, the war has become a slow grind. Losing well trained men can't be magically replaced in a month.



The Ukrainians still have 200-250K soldiers. It’s not wishful thinking. The West will continue to supply Ukraine until Russia gives up or is annihilated.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517598481652891649

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517883802483408898


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517887282849665024


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517881397490425856


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517954189405609984


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## A.P. Richelieu

Trango Towers said:


> The point you didn't even understand was that Ukraine agreed to this when Russia gave it its independence. Now before imposing your limited opinion wouldn't it be better to understand the situation.


Russia did not give Ukraine independence. All Soviet republics had the right to become independent according to the USSR constitution. Ukraine exercised that option.
Russia did as well. Russia had no higher statute in the USSR than Ukraine and did not negotiate with Ukraine over conditions.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517958260665552906

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517949313187557377

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517954534072590343

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## Hassan Al-Somal

*Briefing by the Russian Defence Ministry*

▫️The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue a special military operation in Ukraine.

💥*During the night, high-precision air-based missiles of the Russian Aerospace Forces hit 11 military assets of Ukraine*.

▫️A*mong them: 7 strong points and areas of manpower and military equipment concentration. As a result of the strikes, the enemy's losses amounted to up to 2 companies of personnel, 25 armored vehicles and motor cars. Also, 3 depots of missile and artillery weapons were destroyed near Chervonnoe.*

✈️💥*Operational-tactical and army aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces hit 66 military assets of Ukraine during the night.*

▫️Among them: 3 command posts, 58 areas of manpower and Ukrainian military equipment concentration, as well as 3 missile and artillery weapons depots near Alexandrovka, Komar and Bogatyr.
*
💥Missile troops and artillery performed 1,098 firing tasks during the day.*

▫️*As a result of the strikes, 3 Ukrainian Mi-8 helicopters were destroyed near Chuguev, 3 anti-aircraft missile system Osa-AKM on the outskirts of Barvenkovo, 16 depots of weapons and military equipment, as well as 33 command posts of Ukrainian units.*

▫️*919 strong points and areas of manpower and military equipment concentration, as well as 124 firing positions of Ukrainian artillery were hit.*

▫️*Su-25 aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force was shot down in the air by Russian air defence means near Novaya Dmitrovka, Kharkov region.*

▫️*Also during the night, 15 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles were destroyed, including 1 Bayraktar TB-2 over Novaya Zarya, Nikolaev region.*

▫️*In the Chernobayevka area, crews of Pantsir-S anti-aircraft missile and cannon complexes shot down 2 Tochka-U tactical missiles and 3 multiple launch rocket projectiles in the air.*

📊In total, since the beginning of the special military operation, 141 aircraft, 110 helicopters, 538 unmanned aerial vehicles, 261 anti-aircraft missile systems, 2,471 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 274 multiple rocket launchers, 1,075 field artillery and mortars, as well as 2,311 units of special military vehicles have been destroyed.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing
@mod_russia_en

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517968217968361473


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517966437821919235


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517985246641364992


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517934546292985860

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517952184570322948

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517974739419078657

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517851634369454081

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517712620278759426

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517971684258635778

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517940237267357699

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## Trango Towers

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Russia did not give Ukraine independence. All Soviet republics had the right to become independent according to the USSR constitution. Ukraine exercised that option.
> Russia did as well. Russia had no higher statute in the USSR than Ukraine and did not negotiate with Ukraine over conditions.


Looool. Ok ... lets play with words.

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## RoadAmerica

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> If you see volunteers, not conscripts, it means the war is going is well and ordinary people are enthusiastic about joining it. Being the one of the most battle-hardened and patriotic people on earth, the Russian people are rising up to the challenge and the call to defend their homeland.
> 
> It is safe to say you have a weird way of reasoning.


That’s why Putin just drafted people because they’re so enthusiastic 🙄



Muhammed45 said:


> What is your point with this non sense? go fly to wherever you like for all i Care. We are talking about the ongoing war, not the living standards of different countries. If you like this Subject go open a thread and boast about German living standards and i would personally admire it.
> 
> 
> You don't expect flowers when at war, do you?
> It is the consequence of wars, Russians have done so well so far. Defusing the Effects of western sanctions is on their top priority.
> 
> 
> No worries, just sit and watch ending of Condoleezza Rice's desired world order.


I thought it was a special operation 🤣


----------



## RoadAmerica

Trango Towers said:


> The point you didn't even understand was that Ukraine agreed to this when Russia gave it its independence. Now before imposing your limited opinion wouldn't it be better to understand the situation.


As others have pointed out, Russian didn’t give Ukraine their independence. Gee could make the same silly argument about most of Africa and France 🤷🏿‍♂️


----------



## sms

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> [23.04.2022 19:44]
> 
> Briefing of the Russian Ministry of Defense
> 
> ◽️The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue a special military operation in Ukraine.
> 
> *This afternoon, high-precision long-range air-launched missiles of the Russian Aerospace Forces disabled a logistics terminal at a military airfield near ODESSA, where a large batch of foreign weapons received from the United States and European countries was stored.*
> 
> 
> *During the day, 22 military facilities of Ukraine were hit by high-precision air-launched missiles of the Russian Aerospace Forces. Including: two command and observation posts of the battalion and one command post of the brigade, 11 strong points, as well as places of concentration of manpower and military equipment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The losses of the nationalists amounted to up to 200 personnel and more than 30 armored vehicles and vehicles. In the districts of ILYCHEVKA and KRAMATORSK, three warehouses of weapons, military equipment and ammunition were destroyed. In the area of the settlement NOVAYA DMITROVKA, as a result of the strike, the Buk M1 anti-aircraft missile system and three radar stations were destroyed.*
> 
> *During the day, operational-tactical and army aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces hit 79 military facilities of Ukraine. Among them: six command posts, 52 areas of concentration of manpower and Ukrainian military equipment, as well as 16 warehouses of rocket and artillery weapons, ammunition and fuel. Four anti-aircraft missile systems were destroyed: three Buk-M1 in the area of the settlements of KURAKHOVKA and ROMANOVKA, as well as one anti-aircraft missile system "Tor" in the SERGEEVKA area.*
> 
> *Russian air defense systems in the areas of IZYUM and KHERSON settlements destroyed three Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles, including one Bayraktar TB-2 over the settlement of LOZOVAYA, Kharkiv region.
> 
> Rocket troops and artillery completed 102 fire missions during the day.
> Destroyed: 6 command posts, 84 strongholds and areas of accumulation of manpower and military equipment, as well as 10 artillery batteries.*



As, highlighted by some of the distinguished members that Russia is loosing. I'm trying to find, Russia loosing in post above.

If you do please help me



F-22Raptor said:


> The problem for Russia is that Ukraine will be better armed in the weeks ahead than they were 4-6 weeks ago. Russia will continue to get wrecked with little in reserves.
> 
> Ukraine has now achieved tank parity, and now their towed howitzers are better in quality than Russias. Russias artillery advantage is shrinking.



Slow moment + High losses is not equal to Loosing!
Losing is un ability of attacker to give up on looses they take or loose territory.... It seems none is true as of now. With influx of aid and weapon from NATO , It may change in future but as of today ground realities are contrary to picture posted by media

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## EAGLE777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517918724308848640

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## The SC

The explosion of the building at the end of the clip:

💥 The UR-77 missile launcher is usually used to clear large areas of mines by creating a powerful vibration wave. But against the stronghold of the Armed Forces of Ukraine - impressive too..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517998831023144962

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517993688093319168






Renaming famous shampoo to support Ukraine

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518005431142354945

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518024316427845634


----------



## thetutle

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517968217968361473
> View attachment 837194


Don’t they already have nukes there?


----------



## The SC

thetutle said:


> Don’t they already have nukes there?


Apparently.. not yet..


----------



## thetutle

The SC said:


> Apparently.. not yet..


I see, I odnt think it makes much difference. Russia borders the EU and NATO anyway.

But it would be nice for this historic German town to declare a peoples republic and join the EU.


----------



## The SC

Canadian media reported that the "former" army chief, Lieutenant-General Trevor Kadir, is in Ukraine. Missing since February. It is assumed that he may be trapped in Mariupol.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518007978766614529


thetutle said:


> I see, I odnt think it makes much difference. Russia borders the EU and NATO anyway.
> 
> But it would be nice for this historic German town to declare a peoples republic and join the EU.


Actually it is very different for the reaction time.. in seconds in this case.. Kaliningrad Oblast is in the heart of northern Europe..

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## thetutle

The SC said:


> Actually it is very different for the reaction time.. in seconds in this case.. Kaliningrad Oblast is in the heart of northern Europe..


but tis only 200km west of Russian mainland. what's a 200km difference? Its seconds. maybe a minute difference. 

And besides, anything being in an enclave like this is able to be monitored easier. jammed and taken out of necessary. NATO would know exactly where its being launched from.


----------



## Meengla

WotTen said:


> Ironic, coming from an American.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US warns Solomon Islands over China pact; will fast track new embassy
> 
> 
> American officials told Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare the security pact between Solomon Islands and China has security risks for the region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.smh.com.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Washington:*_ The US will expedite the opening of an embassy in the Solomon Islands and has warned the Pacific nation that it will “respond accordingly” if steps are taken allowing China to establish a military base there._



Yes.
And its more than that. Cuba was also an 'independent' country but was denied the right to host the Soviet missiles. Iraq was also an 'independent' country but was invaded without the UNSC authorization in 2003. And I am sure there are more such examples.
Russia is simply duplicating the hegemonistic policies of America--or America had duplicated some hegemonistic policies of some other empire before. 
Those living in the glass house should not... But then some here think that if a civilization is 'democratic' and 'free' that gives it a right for 'exceptionalism'. Such hypocritical thoughts are abundant in this thread.

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## The SC

Does Zelinsky want to win a war with Beyraktar, Javelin and Stinger..not even the European cannons and the American Phoenix will be enough for his victory in the war.. He can inflict more field losses than expected for Russia, but in the end he cannot stop the numerical superiority in equipment, personnel and the air and missile superiority and the presence of a large percentage of the Ukrainians that support Russia in the areas it occupies..

The Stinger cannot stop dozens of planes and helicopters that carry out daily raids, most of them from outside the range of the Stinger.

The Bayraktar and the Javelin could not repel the attack of hundreds of tanks, thousands of armored vehicles, more than 100,000 soldiers, and a large number of cannons and roket launchers.

European cannons that are numbered with fingers cannot repel a large land advance, even if the cannons are from the future era and Russia's equipment is from the era of the Romans.. The numerical, air and missile superiority is decisive..

The problem of the President of Ukraine, is that most of the inhabitants of this planet have been saying that Russia is coming to war since 2014, while the Ukrainian government was sleeping.. It buys coal from the separatists and sells it to Europe and takes a percentage of the delivery of Russian gas to Europe, and anot 1 % of this money went to prepare for this day.. so the result is expected, and even if you bring all of Turkey to fight with Ukraine, this war will not be resolved ..

*Even the British Prime Minister admitted that Russia will win this war, and said we must be realistic and accept this fact..*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518022704305160193

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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> Yes.
> And its more than that. Cuba was also an 'independent' country but was denied the right to host the Soviet missiles. Iraq was also an 'independent' country but was invaded without the UNSC authorization in 2003. And I am sure there are more such examples.
> Russia is simply duplicating the hegemonistic policies of America--or America had duplicated some hegemonistic policies of some other empire before.
> Those living in the glass house should not... But then some here think that if a civilization is 'democratic' and 'free' that gives it a right for 'exceptionalism'. Such hypocritical thoughts are abundant in this thread.


But you admit now that it was clearly not wrong to take over Iraq. especially to establish a democratic government. And you also admit that it would be justified take over Cuba. 

Because if Russia is justified, these things are justified also.



The SC said:


> Does Zelinsky want to win a war with Beyraktar, Javelin and Stinger..not even the European cannons and the American Phoenix will be enough for his victory in the war.. He can inflict more field losses than expected for Russia, but in the end he cannot stop the numerical superiority in equipment, personnel and the air and missile superiority and the presence of a large percentage of the Ukrainians that support Russia in the areas it occupies..
> 
> The Stinger cannot stop dozens of planes and helicopters that carry out daily raids, most of them from outside the range of the Stinger.
> 
> The Bayraktar and the Javelin could not repel the attack of hundreds of tanks, thousands of armored vehicles, more than 100,000 soldiers, and a large number of cannons and roket launchers.
> 
> European cannons that are numbered with fingers cannot repel a large land advance, even if the cannons are from the future era and Russia's equipment is from the era of the Romans.. The numerical, air and missile superiority is decisive..
> 
> The problem of the President of Ukraine, is that most of the inhabitants of this planet have been saying that Russia is coming to war since 2014, while the Ukrainian government was sleeping.. It buys coal from the separatists and sells it to Europe and takes a percentage of the delivery of Russian gas to Europe, and anot 1 % of this money went to prepare for this day.. so the result is expected, and even if you bring all of Turkey to fight with Ukraine, this war will not be resolved ..
> 
> *Even the British Prime Minister admitted that Russia will win this war, and said we must be realistic and accept this fact..*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518022704305160193


If thats true, russia has nothing to worry about then.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518020735326990336

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

thetutle said:


> but tis only 200km west of Russian mainland. what's a 200km difference? Its seconds. maybe a minute difference.
> 
> And besides, anything being in an enclave like this is able to be monitored easier. jammed and taken out of necessary. NATO would know exactly where its being launched from.


No my friend ..understand that this enclave is a Russian military base..well dugged in.. it is like the Steel factory in Mariupol that was built by Russia.. with 4 or 5 deep levels of protection and anti-nuclear build.. Finland, Sweden, Norway Poland and the Baltic states are all very vulnerable to Russian nukes if they are moved to Kaliningrad.. Almost no reaction time..in case of nuclear or even conventional strikes with Hypersonic missiles..




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517856389187657729

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517875186892169216


----------



## nufix

RoadAmerica said:


> See that’s the point you’re missing, who is Russia to demand what sovereign Ukraine does? Border/sphere of influence doesn’t matter, Ukraine is independent and choose their own destiny



So why did the US invade Cuba again? Who is the US to demand what sovereign Cuba did? Border/Sphere of influence doesn’t matter, Cuba was independent and chose their own destiny.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517517859827732480

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## F-22Raptor

The SC said:


> Does Zelinsky want to win a war with Beyraktar, Javelin and Stinger..not even the European cannons and the American Phoenix will be enough for his victory in the war.. He can inflict more field losses than expected for Russia, but in the end he cannot stop the numerical superiority in equipment, personnel and the air and missile superiority and the presence of a large percentage of the Ukrainians that support Russia in the areas it occupies..
> 
> The Stinger cannot stop dozens of planes and helicopters that carry out daily raids, most of them from outside the range of the Stinger.
> 
> The Bayraktar and the Javelin could not repel the attack of hundreds of tanks, thousands of armored vehicles, more than 100,000 soldiers, and a large number of cannons and roket launchers.
> 
> European cannons that are numbered with fingers cannot repel a large land advance, even if the cannons are from the future era and Russia's equipment is from the era of the Romans.. The numerical, air and missile superiority is decisive..
> 
> The problem of the President of Ukraine, is that most of the inhabitants of this planet have been saying that Russia is coming to war since 2014, while the Ukrainian government was sleeping.. It buys coal from the separatists and sells it to Europe and takes a percentage of the delivery of Russian gas to Europe, and anot 1 % of this money went to prepare for this day.. so the result is expected, and even if you bring all of Turkey to fight with Ukraine, this war will not be resolved ..
> 
> *Even the British Prime Minister admitted that Russia will win this war, and said we must be realistic and accept this fact..*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518022704305160193




Russia has already lost strategically. Ukraine has tank parity with the Russians and Russia artillery advantage is shrinking. They’ve lost a quarter of their combat power in 2 months. 

Ukraines will be better armed in the coming weeks than they were 4-6 weeks ago.


----------



## Meengla

thetutle said:


> But you admit now that it was clearly not wrong to take over Iraq. especially to establish a democratic government. And you also admit that it would be justified take over Cuba.
> 
> Because if Russia is justified, these things are justified also.



Hah?? I am not admitting anything. Pointing out the hypocrisy of that guy above who brought up 'independence' of Ukraine. Of course Ukraine has the rights given to a sovereign state and of course Cuba and Iraq had the rights of sovereign states. There are two wrongs being done--by America and Russia. 



thetutle said:


> yeah well, we shall see the consequences of their actions in due time, Ukraine is obviously as you say in a mess. but all that matters to the west is the final outcome and the damage it does to russia. And it will be huge.



Ahh, yes. A famous line from 'Dr. Zhivago' immediately came to my mind: "Your point, their village'. You were surely, and unfortunately, raised in a totalitarian society. Sad.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518015183473590276
Great analysis right there


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518018887182290944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518018889908506624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518018894308421632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518018896972095490


----------



## patero

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518015183473590276
> Great analysis right there


So the brave Russian/chechen/jewish resistance fighters are waging a (defensive) special military operation against the Zionist/Bandera/Nazi/Satanist/Islamist/Nato war mongers from a non-existant country. Right, got it. And there have now been 3128 vehicles lost in accidents.

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## CAPRICORN-88

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Russia has interfered since 2014. Russians mercenaries have been active even though they should leave Ukraine according to the agreement.


It is futile to argue about this in the absence of credible evidences coming from you. 

We referred to these as "hearsays" in a court of law, in layman terms "gossips" and in politics as "propaganda".

If one applied commonsense to what you just wrote, alleging about Russia leaving as a condition according to the agreement, it is simply illogical. 

That will tantamount to an admission to the world that Russia direct involvement in Ukraine.

You really thinks that the Russia is that stupid. 

So IMO YOU fabricated all this. 

So stop trolling. We will continue when you can present at least more solid evidence. 

Even the US denied despite of the circulation of an audio tape recording of US attack deputy SS Victoria Nuland admitting US role into Ukraine.

BTW Zalensky could NOT even prove that the weapons supplied used by the rebellious militia of these breakaway republics were supplied from Russia.

Now you will understand why I don't debate with trolls.

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## mazeto

thetutle said:


> Russian hates these groups as much if not more than the west does,
> 
> Hezbollah gets bombed every day by Israel under Russian air cover.


Quote 1. Even a cornered rat fights
Quote 2. Enemy of your enemy.. 

1+2= French choppers dropping from the skies in the Sahel, or Oil & gas shipping to EU getting pinged by Javelins from lanky men in dhows..


----------



## WotTen

Russia will have to try and take over all of Ukraine sooner or later. No half measures. Otherwise, western Ukraine with NATO weapons will constantly bombard eastern Ukraine under Russian control for years to come.

If Russia controls all of Ukraine, only then neighboring NTO countries will not attack into Ukraine. They may support insurgencies but no supply of heavy weapons.

I see this war dragging out for months unless Russia ramps up the pressure big time.


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## DF41

The SC said:


> *Urgent.. The Russian army achieves a crushing victory over Ukraine and controls the most dangerous strategic location*
> 
> The war between Russia and Ukraine continues and the Russian army controls strategic heights in Lugansk,. Russian tanks, the Russian Air Force, the Kalibr missile forces and the Russian Iskander missiles hit the Ukrainian army targets in Kyiv, Kharkov, Odessa, Mariupol .. and many more other places..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517951139207163906

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## mazeto

WotTen said:


> Russia will have to try and take over all of Ukraine sooner or later. No half measures. Otherwise, western Ukraine with NATO weapons will constantly bombard eastern Ukraine under Russian control for years to come.
> 
> If Russia controls all of Ukraine, only then neighboring NTO countries will not attack into Ukraine. They may support insurgencies but no supply of heavy weapons.
> 
> I see this war dragging out for months unless Russia ramps up the pressure big time.


 I foresee an Eastern and a Western Ukraine of sorts. 
Both of them will replicate the Houthi modus operandi.. Western Ukraine will build it's own crude missiles and drones and target Moscow and beyond with regularity. Whereas the technically independent Eastern Ukraine with do the same thing on NATO countries all the way to Germany and France. Russia and it's nukes will prevent direct NATO retaliation. 

The resolution may again look like Yemen...After years of desultory warfare the stronger party( NATO) will eventually get tired of the weaker, but more committed party , climb down from its high horse and negotiate a solution. Again like Yemen, Zelensky and Ukraine will have to accept whatever the sponsors decide.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517959804370759680


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## CAPRICORN-88

Despite all the posting of heroic act of Ukrainian fighting the Russia, facts point to one conclusion.

1. Russia is dictating and shaping the war.
2. Boris Johnson in India admitted for the first time that Ukraine may lose the way. Which is the 180 degree turnaround from what he said one month ago.

3. Janet Yallen told her EU partners that a complete ban on Russian Oil and Gas may not work in their favour. USA is now mulling lowering the unilateral tariffs on Chinese goods to control the runaway inflation.

4. Those who understand how Russia fights war will understand by now that Russia grinds down the enemy slow and steady.

5. Today the people in these breakaway Republics are using Ruble in their daily life.

6. In the meantime 5 million Ukrainian refugees flooded EU. 

What does all these tell us?

Ukraine is winning the war!

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## WotTen

mazeto said:


> I foresee an Eastern and a Western Ukraine of sorts.
> Both of them will replicate the Houthi modus operandi.. Western Ukraine will build it's own crude missiles and drones and target Moscow and beyond with regularity. Whereas the technically independent Eastern Ukraine with do the same thing on NATO countries all the way to Germany and France. Russia and it's nukes will prevent direct NATO retaliation.
> 
> The resolution may again look like Yemen...After years of desultory warfare the stronger party( NATO) will eventually get tired of the weaker, but more committed party , climb down from its high horse and negotiate a solution. Again like Yemen, Zelensky and Ukraine will have to accept whatever the sponsors decide.



If Ukraine sends a missile into Moscow, Russia will flatten Kiev like an angry mama bear.

Both sides will continue their war within Ukraine or Russia's border regions. Also, why would NATO stop supplying weapons to Ukraine? It's chump change to NATO and it keeps Russia constantly on edge.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518031328884756483

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## mazeto

WotTen said:


> If Ukraine sends a missile into Moscow, Russia will flatten Kiev like an angry mama bear.
> 
> Both sides will continue their war within Ukraine or Russia's border regions. Also, why would NATO stop supplying weapons to Ukraine? It's chump change to NATO and it keeps Russia constantly on edge.


 That's exactly what the Saudis and Emiratis did to the Houthi. Look now where they are...
NATO will look to deescalate a couple years down the line when Eastern Ukraine missiles start raining down on their country under Russian nuclear cover

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517858094914494464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517877691214618625

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## Stryker1982

The SC said:


> The Ukrainian field operations commanders in Kharkiv are the most professional forces in this war since the beginning of the war, under the bombing, but they succeeded in neutralizing the Russians outside the city so far and in defending it despite the fall of several cities and regions under the control of the Russians, but Kharkiv is still cohesive.. The Russians do not want a settlement The city, but rather its preservation, because it is the most important industrial area in Ukraine, and controlling it without razing it to the ground is a strategic gain, and its loss for Ukraine is a great moral loss..There are approximately 40,000 Ukrainian fighters in the Kharkiv region
> 
> The actual battle of Kharkiv did not start, and when the conflict rages in it, we will see Stalingrad in the 21st century and perhaps worse.. The city has more than a million Ukrainians and its area is relatively large and important for both sides..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516886186110947328


Russia does not even have enough manpower to even attack the city let alone take it at this moment. Short of Putin ordering a general mobilization of the people, it can't happen.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517877705152372741


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517877718255390720

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## WotTen

mazeto said:


> That's exactly what the Saudis and Emiratis did to the Houthi. Look now where they are...
> NATO will look to deescalate a couple years down the line when Eastern Ukraine missiles start raining down on their country under Russian nuclear cover



Russia will not attack NATO because it is no match in a conventional war and, despite chest thumping, neither side will go nuclear. Engaging NATO is a one way trip to defeat and humiliation for Russia.

Russia had previously said that it would attack Sweden or Finland if they joined NATO. Now they have dialled their response down to putting nukes in Kaliningrad.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517877718255390720


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## F-22Raptor

Biden said the US has the ability to supply Ukraine for “a very long time.”

The US has the full intention to completely annihilate the Russian military as long as it remains in Ukraine.

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## Stryker1982

F-22Raptor said:


> Biden said the US has the ability to supply Ukraine for “a very long time.”
> 
> The US has the full intention to completely annihilate the Russian military as long as it remains in Ukraine.


Russian Tac-air needs to completely re-vamp. Shocking that they have played such a small role in such a serious war. For a country with so many aircraft and A-Z air industry, they shouldn't be like this.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518074842515492864
Another Russian helicopter destroyed tonight



Stryker1982 said:


> Russian Tac-air needs to completely re-vamp. Shocking that they have played such a small role in such a serious war. For a country with so many aircraft and A-Z air industry, they shouldn't be like this.




Russian forces are going to be massively attrited if they remain in Ukraine. They can’t remain there long term if the US and NATO continue to supply Ukraine. The human and military costs eventually become too high.


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## CAPRICORN-88

Meanwhile the shares Of Lockheed Martin and Raytheon, makers of the USD120K stinger and USD180K Javelin have soared to a new record high. Yes. The cost of each unit including the launcher and missile. 

*Are we ignoring about the warning of former US President Eisenhower about these military industries that lobbying for more wars?*

Ukraine said they needs 500 Stinger and 500 Javelin per day.

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## Stryker1982

F-22Raptor said:


> Russian forces are going to be massively attrited if they remain in Ukraine. They can’t remain there long term if the US and NATO continue to supply Ukraine. The human and military costs eventually become too high.


Not to mention, general popular mobilization leads to the create of new BTGs armed with NATO systems. Overtime, we might even see Ukrainians military grow larger than what they started with, which is not uncommon in wars at all.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518077098727985153


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## MajesticPug

Wergeland said:


> NATO is here to stay buddy. But hopefully it goes back to be a purely defensive pact.



NATO should be dismantled. The reason (you know full well): It's not a defensive pact. It's become geopolitical bullying tool serving the US' interests. The world is not in peace because of NATO.

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## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Meanwhile the shares Of Lockheed Martin and Raytheon, makers of the USD120K stinger and USD180K Javelin have soared to a new record high. Yes. The cost of each unit including the launcher and missile.
> 
> *Are we ignoring about the warning of former US President Eisenhower about these military industries that lobbying for more wars?*
> 
> Ukraine said they needs 500 Stinger and 500 Javelin per day.


Ask Putin
He can stop the war immediately.
He will save $25 billion per month.

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## F-22Raptor

Stryker1982 said:


> Not to mention, general popular mobilization leads to the create of new BTGs armed with NATO systems. Overtime, we might even see Ukrainians military grow larger than what they started with, which is not uncommon in wars at all.



The Russians keep making the same mistakes. 

Small scale assaults that get obliterated or go nowhere. Large columns that get destroyed like that column of 5 tanks last week that got hit by artillery. 

Meanwhile, Ukrainian capability continues to grow thanks to NATO.

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## Viet

WotTen said:


> Russia will not attack NATO because it is no match in a conventional war and, despite chest thumping, neither side will go nuclear. Engaging NATO is a one way trip to defeat and humiliation for Russia.
> 
> Russia had previously said that it would attack Sweden or Finland if they joined NATO. Now they have dialled their response down to putting nukes in Kaliningrad.


If not nuclear weapons nobody will care. Russia economy is smaller than Spain, will be about of Netherlands once sanctions bite. Because the West buy less Putin is selling oil and gas cheap to China and India. Russia can’t sustain a long conventional war against Ukraine.

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## WotTen

Viet said:


> Russia can’t sustain a long conventional war against Ukraine.



That is true but Europe will also feel the economic pinch as time goes on. The big question is whether Europe will defy the US and try to broker a peace, especially if Russia ceases advancing and goes into consolidation mode.

Will the US allow it?


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## Viet

WotTen said:


> That is true but Europe will also feel the economic pinch as time goes on. The big question is whether Europe will defy the US and try to broker a peace, especially if Russia ceases advancing and goes into consolidation mode.
> 
> Will the US allow it?


This war can stop immediately If Putin withdraws the army entirely from Ukraine. It is in Putin hands to decide. Nobody else.

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## The SC

Ukraine's Finance Minister: *Banning Russian energy means raising prices, and that will increase Moscow's revenues from energy sales elsewhere.*

@AsharqNewsBrk


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## The SC

*Secret documents reveal the losses of some units of the Ukrainian Guard*

2022-04-23

The Russian Ministry of Defense published new data on the losses among the soldiers of the Ukrainian National Guard, and stated that it had obtained these numbers from Ukrainian documents, according to what Russia reported today.

According to the list, in which the submitted documents contain data on combat losses of servicemen in these military units, the circumstances of their death and place of burial, as well as information on casualties among the military, 69 people left the military unit without a permit, and one person was considered missing.

According to the statement of the Russian Ministry, 37 servicemen of the Ukrainian forces refused to obey orders and left military unit No. 3057. The desertion of 152 soldiers of the 16th separate battalion was recorded in Kherson.

The ministry also indicated the presence of a large number of deserters from military service in Military Unit 3014 (84 individuals), Military Unit 3033 (82 individuals), and Military Unit 3030 (79 individuals).

Earlier, Russian Defense spokesman Major General Igor Konashenkov said that the death toll between Ukrainian forces and volunteers had reached 23,367 people.

*Russia Today*


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## Beast

Viet said:


> Ask Putin
> He can stop the war immediately.
> He will save $25 billion per month.


He can't stop the war becos NATO will invade Russia and keep the war machine production drumming. Rather than have the war at home. It's better to continue at Ukraine. NATO is a blood thirsty organization.


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## The SC

*The Russian Defense reveals the human losses as a result of the sinking of "Moskva"*

2022-04-22

The Russian Ministry of Defense revealed the final death toll from the cruiser "Moskva" accident, and announced that one of the crew members of the missile cruiser "Moskva" died while trying to put out the fire.

The ministry added that 27 other crew members were missing, and the remaining 396 crew members were evacuated.

The ministry pointed out that the vast majority of officers, naval men and sailors on the ship "Moskva" expressed their desire to continue service on board the ships of the Black Sea Fleet.

The Ministry of Defense stated: “A number of military personnel who wish to transfer to other garrisons will continue to serve on ships of other fleets.”

And the RIA stated that "396 other crew members of the ship were rescued."

Moscow says the Moskva, the flagship of its Black Sea fleet, sank last week after a fire caused an explosion of ammunition.


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## Tomcats

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> If you see volunteers, not conscripts, it means the war is going is well and ordinary people are enthusiastic about joining it. Being the one of the most battle-hardened and patriotic people on earth, the Russian people are rising up to the challenge and the call to defend their homeland.
> 
> It is safe to say you have a weird way of reasoning.


Er yeah, it's really showing throughout this campaign... /s


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## sammuel

The SC said:


> Does Zelinsky want to win a war with Beyraktar, Javelin and Stinger..not even the European cannons and the American Phoenix will be enough for his victory in the war.. He can inflict more field losses than expected for Russia, but in the end he cannot stop the numerical superiority in equipment, personnel and the air and missile superiority and the presence of a large percentage of the Ukrainians that support Russia in the areas it occupies..





War is more than a numbers game.

If it was just a numbers game than Russia would have already have taken the north .But a handful of Ukrainians armed mainly with bravery , javelins and NLAWS , managed to make them turn tail.

Don't know why you want to undermine the effect of all those weapons suppled to Ukraine.

I don't know of a time in history where so many countries sent aid to one country at war. More than 50 countries suppled aid , more than 30 countries are supplying military aid.


And some of the stuff they are getting is the most advanced weapon systems in the world. If they had managed at the beginning of the war with so little , one can presume they would do a lot better now.


~

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## Tomcats

F-22Raptor said:


> Russian forces are going to be massively attrited if they remain in Ukraine. They can’t remain there long term if the US and NATO continue to supply Ukraine. The human and military costs eventually become too high.


Ukrainian forces' offensive capability is continuing to be degraded and they are also facing attrition too we must not forget that. Guess it's really now a game of who conks out first, Russia or Ukraine?

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## CAPRICORN-88

The SC said:


> Ukraine's Finance Minister: *Banning Russian energy means raising prices, and that will increase Moscow's revenues from energy sales elsewhere.*
> 
> @AsharqNewsBrk


It is funny to see EU circumventing their own sanction imposed on Russia.

In a consultation paper released to members dated April 22, 2022 EU, it reads that European companies do not violated the sanction as long as they fulfilled their contractual obligation including depositing Euro and USD into Russia's Gasprom bank.

This is a 180 degree turnaway from the hardline stance at the beginning of April 2022 when President Putin issued his decree on Ruble for Russia Oil and Gas.

Meanwhile US loosen its sanction when it secretly imported more Russian Oil in view of rising prices.

At a million barrel of Oil released from US strategic reserve daily, US is beginning to feel insecured and have started begging for oil and Gas from both archenemies Venezuala and Iran. How humiliating?

Wonder what happened to the fmr US operative Juan Guaido, the Venezuela President appointed by the US administration. US disallowed a legitimate Venezuela UN envoy to represent Venezuela in the UN.

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## CAPRICORN-88

The SC said:


> Ukraine's Finance Minister: *Banning Russian energy means raising prices, and that will increase Moscow's revenues from energy sales elsewhere.*
> 
> @AsharqNewsBrk


Russia has increased its daily production of Oil from 1 million barrel to 1.6 million in April 2022.
Destination: UNKNOWN

That means a 60% increment before the war started. Russia is enjoying a surplus.

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## Viet

Tomcats said:


> Ukrainian forces' offensive capability is continuing to be degraded and they are also facing attrition too we must not forget that. Guess it's really now a game of who conks out first, Russia or Ukraine?


Russia deploys a 110y old ship to salvage the 43y sunken cruiser Moskva. Talking about attrition. People laughing plz have a bit shame.

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## khansaheeb

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517573200032542722


Sooner or later the Ruskies are going to run out. Now, what if the Ruskies use a nuke on Ukraine, what's going to happen then?>


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## Clutch

Israel is still arming Ukrainian Nazis​
Asa WinstanleyRights and Accountability21 April 2022





Video posted online by Ukraine’s Nazi Azov Battalion showed it firing an Israeli-made weapon.

Israeli anti-tank weapons are being used by Nazi soldiers in Ukraine.

A video published by Ukraine’s Azov Battalion on Twitter this week showed one of its fighters firing an anti-tank missile. In the tweet Azov claimed it had hit a Russian vehicle.

Israeli media on Wednesday identified the missile system in the Azov video as a Matador, a weapon developed by a consortium involving Rafael, a state-owned Israeli arms manufacturer.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516388893213564934
The weapon seen in the video does match with established photos of the Matador.
Yahoo News reported last month that Ukraine had bought 5,100 of the missile systems from a German manufacturer – the same firm that jointly developed the Matador with Rafael.

Matador is a portmanteau of “man-portable anti-tank, anti-door” since it is also used to blow holes in walls when fighting in urban areas.

An Israeli soldier aims an anti-tank missile
An Israeli solider trains with a Matador anti-tank missile. The same weapon recently featured in an Azov Battalion video from Mariupol. (Wikimedia Commons)
Tested in Gaza
The Matador’s “wall opening function is particularly valued” by Israeli soldiers, The Jerusalem Post reports. Israel has used the weapon in “heavily built-up environments such as the Gaza Strip,” the newspaper adds – a euphemism for how Palestinian homes have almost certainly been attacked with the weapon.

The video posted by Azov this week was also filmed in an urban environment. Azov’s headquarters has long been in the southeastern port city of Mariupol, part of the largely Russian-speaking eastern Donbass region of Ukraine.

Mariupol has been the scene of intense fighting since the Russian invasion that began on 24 February. Both Russian and Ukrainian sources this week said the city was on the verge of falling to Russian forces.

On Thursday morning Russian defense minister Sergey Shoigu said that most of the city had been captured. The last 2,000 Ukrainian fighters in the city remain holed up in the Azovstal steel plant, he said.

Anti-tank weapons with Hebrew markings
Israeli anti-tank weapon Matador on display during Israel’s 2014 “independence day” celebrations of the 1948 destruction of Palestine. (Wikimedia Commons)
Azov has been a magnet for far-right volunteers who have flocked to Ukraine from around the world in recent months. On Monday, two British citizens captured in Mariupol by Russian forces appeared in handcuffs on Russian TV.

Captured volunteer Aiden Aslin was wearing an Azov Battalion t-shirt with its distinctive Nazi symbol the Wolfsangel.

“Big Israel”
The Azov Battalion itself is named after the Sea of Azov, which Mariupol overlooks.

Azov emerged out of the far-right street gangs and football hooligans that formed the vanguard of the 2014 coup against the elected Ukrainian government. The coup regime then integrated Azov into its regular armed forces.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1016705222041849858




Ukraine’s Nazi Azov Batallion on parade in 2017. (Azov.org.ua)

As the letter we published as part of our original report explained, the Israeli defense ministry said it was “careful to grant licenses” to arms exporters “in full coordination with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and other government entities.” The letter – sent in response to a query by human rights lawyer Eitay Mack – did not deny arming Ukrainian Nazis.

The Ukrainian ambassador to Israel denied there had been any weapon supply from Israel “since 2014.” But in a related tweet, he seemed to contradict himself by admitting that the Tavor-style rifles were produced “under the licenses of IWI” – Israel Weapon Industries, an Israeli arms manufacturer whose licenses all must be approved by the Israeli government.

IWI’s Tavor rifles have been used by Israeli snipers to fire on Palestinians protesting near Gaza’s boundary with Israel in recent years.

Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky is a big supporter of apartheid Israel.

He has hailed a “big Israel” as the model for his country and said in his speech to the Israeli parliament last month that both countries face the same threats.

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## RescueRanger

When the Ukrainians say the need more weapons - they aren’t kidding. 

Yes that is a Maxim being used in 2022 against modern armour:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517875958300258306

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## A.P. Richelieu

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> It is futile to argue about this in the absence of credible evidences coming from you.
> 
> We referred to these as "hearsays" in a court of law, in layman terms "gossips" and in politics as "propaganda".
> 
> If one applied commonsense to what you just wrote, alleging about Russia leaving as a condition according to the agreement, it is simply illogical.
> 
> That will tantamount to an admission to the world that Russia direct involvement in Ukraine.
> 
> You really thinks that the Russia is that stupid.
> 
> So IMO YOU fabricated all this.
> 
> So stop trolling. We will continue when you can present at least more solid evidence.
> 
> Even the US denied despite of the circulation of an audio tape recording of US attack deputy SS Victoria Nuland admitting US role into Ukraine.
> 
> BTW Zalensky could NOT even prove that the weapons supplied used by the rebellious militia of these breakaway republics were supplied from Russia.
> 
> Now you will understand why I don't debate with trolls.


There is plenty of evidence gathered by multiple groups.








Ten Things You Should Know about Russian Involvement in Ukraine


Russian President Vladimir Putin denies involvement in the conflict in Ukraine’s east. Despite his continued denials of Russia’s involvement in the




www.atlanticcouncil.org







MajesticPug said:


> NATO should be dismantled. The reason (you know full well): It's not a defensive pact. It's become geopolitical bullying tool serving the US' interests. The world is not in peace because of NATO.



Just because Putin is throwing tantrums?

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## Tomcats

The SC said:


> Even the British Prime Minister admitted that Russia will win this war, and said we must be realistic and accept this fact..


Um, calm down mate. They will win once they manage to achieve their objectives don't be so premature with claims. I myself was of the notion that Ukraine would fall within 3 weeks and that notion was very much dispelled with the fighting that was observed in the area. What is a fact is that fighting still continues and Russia after 58+ days has been unable to achieve its main objective which is the capitulation of Ukraine and a more favorable situation for them geopolitically, being produced.


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## vizier

khansaheeb said:


> Sooner or later the Ruskies are going to run out. Now, what if the Ruskies use a nuke on Ukraine, what's going to happen then?>


It would be best for putin not to make this an ego issue. There are 30 countries giving arms from huge western Ukraine border. It is closer to a phyrric win but still a win for Russia if an agreement is reached with Ukraine. If the Ru army is damaged considerably then next round within 3-5 years western countries will support separatist activities in caucasus with much less professional Russian army, equipment and capable generals left. Best course of action would be after finding the flaws in army-airforce try to fix and rebuild them as well as repair-revert the economic damage through agreements. Some compromise needs to be given for agreements with Ukraine. They already left open door about Crimea referandum and claimed Ukraine would do their own referandum for future status of this region as I remember. The land bridge between Donetsk-Crimea can be a demilitarized zone with Un security forces and private security groups like Azov can be disbanded. Donetsk region can be given autonomy and non-aggression agreement(Crimea as well regardless of Ukraine secession referaundum result) for many years that would allow Russian presence there as things cool down. Ukraine already is under iaea non-nuclear weapon control checks and decided to be not in nato in exchange of security guarantees. I dont know but finding the middle ground between Ukraine and Russia is still possible in my opinion.

nuclear option is as damaging to Russia as it is to Ukraine. It can be countered with western many conventional cruise missiles(launched from Mediterennian sea entering through Polish-Romanian border from Ukraine) and maybe stealth conventional attacks. These attacks can't be traced back. Ukraine can claim these are their neptune missile hits. Kerch bridge, Crimea water canals as well as many static army positions would be hit continiously. After a huge conventional blow taken Russia would have many difficulties securing internal issues later in caucasus like Chechnia, Daghestan etc. in which separatist activities will be supported by west in next round and referandums would be prepared. It wont be thinking Russian future if nuclear option is used.

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## WotTen

RescueRanger said:


> When the Ukrainians say the need more weapons - they aren’t kidding.
> 
> Yes that is a Maxim being used in 2022 against modern armour:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517875958300258306



The video is so staged. The guys next to him are standing around having. a picnic.

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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517954534072590343


Lol what even is this?


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## RescueRanger

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517896339866230784


Some serious Hitler youth vibes there.


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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518165714816974851


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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> Hah?? I am not admitting anything. Pointing out the hypocrisy of that guy above who brought up 'independence' of Ukraine. Of course Ukraine has the rights given to a sovereign state and of course Cuba and Iraq had the rights of sovereign states. There are two wrongs being done--by America and Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh, yes. A famous line from 'Dr. Zhivago' immediately came to my mind: "Your point, their village'. You were surely, and unfortunately, raised in a totalitarian society. Sad.


yes I was, in a communist hell hole. May you never experience it. 

But I dont set the policy of the west. but the aim is to break Russia if possible. and save as much of Ukraine as possible.


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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> Hah?? I am not admitting anything. Pointing out the hypocrisy of that guy above who brought up 'independence' of Ukraine. Of course Ukraine has the rights given to a sovereign state and of course Cuba and Iraq had the rights of sovereign states. There are two wrongs being done--by America and Russia.


Yes, two wrongs done, but the US wrong in Iraq is much less because they removed a dictator who invaded sovereign Kuwait and killed 1 million Iranians. Of course I jumped for joy when they got rid of the lowlife Saddam. The fact is, you dont invade a sovereign country and try to annex its territory and get away with it in the post WW2 world. Saddam disregarded the rules based order by trying to take parts of Iran and all of Kuwaitt. 

Now that russia is doing, it, the same fate will befall it sooner or later. It has moved against the rules based world order. It will end badly for them.

Cuba had a right to host the missiles, but JFK could too handle it and Russia pulled them back, then JFK was killed because of his recklessness by a communist sympathiser from a book depository.



Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518015183473590276
> Great analysis right there


lol,. yes, and thats a view shared by many Russians. After Putin the next reprint might be a hardcore nationalist and Chechens will have a hard time in russia. As they always have.

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## thetutle

mazeto said:


> I foresee an Eastern and a Western Ukraine of sorts.
> Both of them will replicate the Houthi modus operandi.. Western Ukraine will build it's own crude missiles and drones and target Moscow and beyond with regularity. Whereas the technically independent Eastern Ukraine with do the same thing on NATO countries all the way to Germany and France. Russia and it's nukes will prevent direct NATO retaliation.


I am praying russia controlled part of Ukraine bombs a NATO county.


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## Viet

Belarusian railway saboteurs helped thwart Russia’s attack on Kyiv​By Liz Sly3:15 a.m.
Link copied







In this photo taken from video, Russian military vehicles on a railway platform in Russia are on their way to attend joint military drills in Belarus on Jan. 24. (Russian Defense Ministry Press Service/AP)

When Russian troops first streamed across the Belarusian border into Ukraine for what Moscow had assumed would be a lightning assault on Kyiv, they were intending to rely on the region’s extensive rail network for supplies and reinforcements.

The Russians had not taken into account the railway saboteurs of Belarus.

Starting in the earliest days of the invasion in February, a clandestine network of railway workers, hackers and dissident security forces went into action to disable or disrupt the railway links connecting Russia to Ukraine through Belarus, wreaking havoc on Russian supply lines.

The attacks have drawn little attention outside Belarus amid the drama of the Russian onslaught and the bloody aftermath of Russia’s humiliating retreat.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/24/russia-ukraine-war-news-blinken-austin-live-updates/#link-6RL7WZT7TJGCHLXSGSST6OC7CY

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## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians keep making the same mistakes.
> 
> Small scale assaults that get obliterated or go nowhere. Large columns that get destroyed like that column of 5 tanks last week that got hit by artillery.
> 
> Meanwhile, Ukrainian capability continues to grow thanks to NATO.


what else can they do without air superiority, The fact they embarked upon this invasion without securing the air first tell you a lot.


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## Viet

Beast said:


> He can't stop the war becos NATO will invade Russia and keep the war machine production drumming. Rather than have the war at home. It's better to continue at Ukraine. NATO is a blood thirsty organization.


Why should Nato invade Russia? For what reason? Because Putin is a Nazi? Or Putin is in reality in Jew? Jew nazi.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518202952242143233


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## Meengla

thetutle said:


> but the US wrong in Iraq is much less because they removed a dictator who invaded sovereign Kuwait and killed 1 million Iranians. Of course I jumped for joy when they got rid of the lowlife Saddam.



I don't want to derail the thread but you don't realize how imperialistic you sound without perhaps even knowing that. Yes, Saddam had to be pushed back via the 1991 war and he was. But I was talking about the *2003 illegal invasion of Iraq by the Americans*! And no one has the right to overthrow dictators in other countries--especially when that illegal war led to untold suffering. Saddam was well confined in Iraq by 2003 and by now a large number of people even in America say that the Iraq war of 2003 was a big mistake. Hillary even lost to Obama largely based on that her support for the Iraq war.

And no one here should bring up 'sovereignty' of states factor without bringing up how sovereignty of states have been violated by America multiple times, to the point of destroying the lives of millions of people. This is not some theoretical debate. We are talking about the lives of millions of people destroyed. 

Anyway, once again you and I disagree on some things. But overall I agree with you that Russia is a has-been force and I only see a greatly truncated Russia long term. It is not necessarily my wish but an observation.

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## thetutle

Both sides of US politics are with Ukraine big time.


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## RoadAmerica

nufix said:


> So why did the US invade Cuba again? Who is the US to demand what sovereign Cuba did? Border/Sphere of influence doesn’t matter, Cuba was independent and chose their own destiny.


When did the US invade Cuba? No the bay of pigs was not a US invasion, financed and supported yes but it was Cubans on the ground

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518203177748897792

Those Russian Nazis got obliterated by 30mm.

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## RoadAmerica

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> It is futile to argue about this in the absence of credible evidences coming from you.
> 
> We referred to these as "hearsays" in a court of law, in layman terms "gossips" and in politics as "propaganda".
> 
> If one applied commonsense to what you just wrote, alleging about Russia leaving as a condition according to the agreement, it is simply illogical.
> 
> That will tantamount to an admission to the world that Russia direct involvement in Ukraine.
> 
> You really thinks that the Russia is that stupid.
> 
> So IMO YOU fabricated all this.
> 
> So stop trolling. We will continue when you can present at least more solid evidence.
> 
> Even the US denied despite of the circulation of an audio tape recording of US attack deputy SS Victoria Nuland admitting US role into Ukraine.
> 
> BTW Zalensky could NOT even prove that the weapons supplied used by the rebellious militia of these breakaway republics were supplied from Russia.
> 
> Now you will understand why I don't debate with trolls.


Ha here you go again, Russia hasn’t supples weapons since ‘14…….come on man.
Who’s 
The 
Real
Troll



Meengla said:


> Hah?? I am not admitting anything. Pointing out the hypocrisy of that guy above who brought up 'independence' of Ukraine. Of course Ukraine has the rights given to a sovereign state and of course Cuba and Iraq had the rights of sovereign states. There are two wrongs being done--by America and Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh, yes. A famous line from 'Dr. Zhivago' immediately came to my mind: "Your point, their village'. You were surely, and unfortunately, raised in a totalitarian society. Sad.


The point I was making is you clowns say the the US shouldn’t do it but it’s ok for Russia to do it because the US did it, see the irony of your argument 🤷🏿‍♂️


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518205018230472706


----------



## Meengla

vizier said:


> It would be best for putin not to make this an ego issue. There are 30 countries giving arms from huge western Ukraine border. It is closer to a phyrric win but still a win for Russia if an agreement is reached with Ukraine. If the Ru army is damaged considerably then next round within 3-5 years western countries will support separatist activities in caucasus with much less professional Russian army, equipment and capable generals left. Best course of action would be after finding the flaws in army-airforce try to fix and rebuild them as well as repair-revert the economic damage through agreements. Some compromise needs to be given for agreements with Ukraine. They already left open door about Crimea referandum and claimed Ukraine would do their own referandum for future status of this region as I remember. The land bridge between Donetsk-Crimea can be a demilitarized zone with Un security forces and private security groups like Azov can be disbanded. Donetsk region can be given autonomy and non-aggression agreement(Crimea as well regardless of Ukraine secession referaundum result) for many years that would allow Russian presence there as things cool down. Ukraine already is under iaea non-nuclear weapon control checks and decided to be not in nato in exchange of security guarantees. I dont know but finding the middle ground between Ukraine and Russia is still possible in my opinion.
> 
> nuclear option is as damaging to Russia as it is to Ukraine. It can be countered with western many conventional cruise missiles(launched from Mediterennian sea entering through Polish-Romanian border from Ukraine) and maybe stealth conventional attacks. These attacks can't be traced back. Ukraine can claim these are their neptune missile hits. Kerch bridge, Crimea water canals as well as many static army positions would be hit continiously. After a huge conventional blow taken Russia would have many difficulties securing internal issues later in caucasus like Chechnia, Daghestan etc. in which separatist activities will be supported by west in next round and referandums would be prepared. It wont be thinking Russian future if nuclear option is used.



Good post. There are creative ways some face saving could be found for Russia.


----------



## Mahmood-ur-Rehman

T-SaGe said:


> Tensions are rising in the east of Europe. It seems that both the Russian forces and Ukrainian forces are mobilized. After the end of the ceasefire, many clashes were recorded in the Donbas region, where separatist Russian militias were located. Due to growing concerns, NATO forces directed many of its platforms to the region.
> 
> The NATO bloc aircrafts constantly patrolling the black sea to support Ukraine and to detect early a possible Russian operation in the direction of Odesa.
> 
> There are largely visible military activities from Romania to Poland. Meanwhile, Russia has raised its military buildup on the Ukrainian border to its highest level since 2014.
> 
> A great storm is approaching, and the worst-case scenario poses such great risks that it can turn into a tragedy for the whole world.
> 
> My wish from the Moderation please make sticky this thread and control it several times a week for a possible troll and spam activities. Let's discuss together the tensest event of 2021 while keeping the thread as clean as possible and not turning it into another troll fest. TY @waz @krash
> 
> Current political map of Territory


America changed the regime in Pakistan without firing a bullet Russhia should learn from this but Russia might not find 2 B in Ukraine BAJWA AND BANDIAL


----------



## Beast

Viet said:


> Why should Nato invade Russia? For what reason? Because Putin is a Nazi? Or Putin is in reality in Jew? Jew nazi.


NATO is an expansionist pact. Their aim is try to steal as much other land as possible. Its a colonial organization in disguise. Not much different from Imperial Japan or Nazi Germany. Russia is a fat meat. Good target to be invaded. Russia need to defend themselves against such evil organization.

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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> But I was talking about the *2003 illegal invasion of Iraq by the Americans*!


Yeah, its a tough one, because there was no going back for Iraq after their failed invasion. And Saddam planned a dynastic rule over Iraq for generations like Assad. It just had to end. 


Meengla said:


> And no one has the right to overthrow dictators in other countries--especially when that illegal war led to untold suffering.


I think that no one has a right to be a dictator. And they all have to go. And they will go. 


Meengla said:


> Saddam was well confined in Iraq by 2003 and by now a large number of people even in America say that the Iraq war of 2003 was a big mistake.


Someone had to get rid of him for going against the rules based world order. the selfish American mistake was not doing it in 1991. 


Meengla said:


> And no one here should bring up 'sovereignty' of states factor without bringing up how sovereignty of states have been violated by America multiple times, to the point of destroying the lives of millions of people.


they did some of this, for sure, but America's imposed world order in 1945 gave freedom from colonialism to so many. 


Meengla said:


> Anyway, once again you and I disagree on some things. But overall I agree with you that Russia is a has-been force and I only see a greatly truncated Russia long term. It is not necessarily my wish but an observation.


I think so. But I didn't think so before the war, I honestly would have bet that Russia could take half of Europe in 2 months. I am shocked. I also know russia and they will never accept being China's sidekick. So their future is very uncertain, because this is their only option. 

If I was Putin I would have spent the next 30 years pretending russia is still a great power, like Britain has done since WW2. And hoping no one finds out that they are not. 

He did not follow the British example, and now everyone can see what Russia is.

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## Meengla

RoadAmerica said:


> The point I was making is you clowns say the the US shouldn’t do it but it’s ok for Russia to do it because the US did it, see the irony of your argument 🤷🏿‍♂️



Learn to follow proper forum etiquette! 
Pointing out the hypocrisy of 'sovereignty' of nations doesn't mean justifying Russia's invasion which is just as wrong as were the multiple invasions by Americans. Around the time of the 2003 illegal Iraq war, it was said by many commentators that that would one day lead to more powerful nations launching their own illegal wars--just like what has happened here with this *illegal *invasion of Ukraine. Whatever world-order established after the end of WW2, is being destroyed in front of us. That order, however flawed it was, did raise billions out of poverty around the globe and, by human standards, was not as destructive as the decades and centuries before that.

*Coming back to the topic: Looks like Russia does want to take even Odessa. Wow! I was expected them to stop after Mariupol but they seem to have enough confidence in their abilities to keep the war going... unless they are bluffing??*


----------



## Raja420

I don't have time to read all of the thread so
...

Is russia winning the war or losing?


----------



## thetutle

Meengla said:


> *Coming back to the topic: Looks like Russia does want to take even Odessa. Wow! I was expected them to stop after Mariupol but they seem to have enough confidence in their abilities to keep the war going... unless they are bluffing??*


Of course they want Odessa and all of Ukraine actually. and there counties. staring with parts of Moldova next. They are confident only because their intelligence is faulty.



Raja420 said:


> I don't have time to read all of the thread so
> ...
> 
> Is russia winning the war or losing?


Its gaining territory at great cost. But it is gaining territory.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518211545003663360


----------



## Meengla

thetutle said:


> Of course they want Odessa and all of Ukraine actually. and there counties. staring with parts of Moldova next. They are confident only because their intelligence is faulty.



The tiny strip of land in eastern Moldova is already sort of Russian affiliated? Then the plan is to take all of southern Ukraine to make a Ukraine land-locked country? 









Transnistria - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518213277515497472


----------



## thetutle

Meengla said:


> The tiny strip of land in eastern Moldova is already sort of Russian affiliated? Then the plan is to take all of southern Ukraine to make a Ukraine land-locked country?


That strip is Russian occupied. but yes, make Ukraine landlocked and then take the rest after a breather. either now or soon. There is no Ukraine in the Russian version of the world. "its not a real country".


----------



## Wood

thetutle said:


> lol,. yes, and thats a view shared by many Russians. After Putin the next reprint might be a hardcore nationalist and Chechens will have a hard time in russia. As they always have.


After Putin, Kadyrov's loyalty to Russian federation is suspect


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518180820015620098

Germany to buy 60 Chinooks

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## Wood

thetutle said:


> Both sides of US politics are with Ukraine big time.


Don't count on it. Tucker has a full hard-on for Putin. Trump will get re-elected in 2024 and Republicans will switch sides immediately!


----------



## thetutle

Wood said:


> After Putin, Kadyrov's loyalty to Russian federation is suspect


Who knows what Chechens are thinking. I certainly dont. And no one plans on asking them. 


Wood said:


> Don't count on it. Tucker has a full hard-on for Putin. Trump will get re-elected in 2024 and Republicans will switch sides immediately!


true, but it might be over by then. By then the Polish and finish F35's will be able to stop what's left of Russian airforce. And US will transfer enough weapons to Poland to continue the fight so that the effort can survive a trump's second term.

However, trump will not win for sure. Texas might even turn democratic by then. Can he win without Texas?


----------



## Wood

thetutle said:


> Who knows what Chechens are thinking. I certainly dont. And no one plans on asking them.
> 
> true, but it might be over by then. By then the Polish and finish F35's will be able to stop what's left of Russian airforce. And US will transfer enough weapons to Poland to continue the fight so that the effort can survive a trump's second term.
> 
> However, trump will not win for sure. Texas might even turn democratic by then. Can he win without Texas?


Biden cannot win anything with his current level of popularity. So Russians have to hold out till 2024 for their boy to be back in office


----------



## nufix

RoadAmerica said:


> When did the US invade Cuba? No the bay of pigs was not a US invasion, financed and supported yes but it was Cubans on the ground


Call it what you want, but it is an infringement of sovereignty nonetheless. That invasion wouldn’t happen if the US didnt decide to dip her fingers the Cuban affairs.

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## Piotr

UAF Soldier Found Executed By His Own Command In Mariupol (18+)​In the port of Mariupol, the body of a senior sailor of the Ukrainian navy Krapovoy Ivan Anatolyevich was found, who was shot from behind, by his own.
He was not wearing any equipment, but there was a leaflet under his body - the conditions of surrender. It is obvious that at the time of the murder by "his own", he was going to go out to the DPR troops and save his life.
Another crime of the Ukrainian Nazis.



> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UAF Soldier Found Executed By His Own Command In Mariupol (18+)
> 
> 
> In the port of Mariupol, the body of a senior sailor of the Ukrainian navy Krapovoy Ivan Anatolyevich was found, who was shot from behind, by his own. He was not wearing any equipment, but there was a leaflet under his body - the conditions of surre…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bitchute.com

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## thetutle

Wood said:


> Biden cannot win anything with his current level of popularity. So Russians have to hold out till 2024 for their boy to be back in office


It would be a miracle if Biden is still alive in 2024. But trump is getting quite old as well. 

And there is no telling what congress or the military industrial complex will do if trump turns out to be pro Putin.

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## FuturePAF

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518024316427845634


There was the threat that they could designate Russia a state sponsor of Terrorism? Do you think that is likely after they see what happened there? That will have pretty significant impact on Russia because that will hurt their trade with all nations. 

Btw, are they going there today, Sunday April 24th; any significance of them going on Orthodox Easter?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518219351622664192

More proof of Russian war crimes

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## FuturePAF

thetutle said:


> It would be a miracle if Biden is still alive in 2024. But trump is getting quite old as well.
> 
> And there is no telling what congress or the military industrial complex will do if trump turns out to be pro Putin.


Orrin Hatch, Republican Senator from Utah just kicked the bucket, so it’s more likely then not a Pro-Trumper will take his place. We may not have to wait till 2024, because if either or both houses of Congress shift Republican they may hold up funding for military aid to Ukraine if Trump signals his disapproval of how Russia is being dealt with.

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## Meengla

Wood said:


> Don't count on it. Tucker has a full hard-on for Putin. Trump will get re-elected in 2024 and Republicans will switch sides immediately!





thetutle said:


> It would be a miracle if Biden is still alive in 2024. But trump is getting quite old as well.
> 
> And there is no telling what congress or the military industrial complex will do if trump turns out to be pro Putin.



Indeed, there is a big bearing on the current Russia-Ukraine war on who becomes the next American President. Power does reside a lot in an American President's hands, despite admirable checks and balances in the system. Trump was a maverick--perhaps one of those once in a century leaders. And I think Putin too is a maverick. 

I don't see Biden as the President in 2024. I have believed he is a seat-warmer for Harris. I don't know much about her though but, in general, an American President is a 'composite' of various lobbies and power inputs and has to abide by those sources' inputs--unless a Trump props up. 

We sure are living in interesting--and dangerous times!

PS. My advice: Buy real assets! I am about to buy 12 acres of land near my home, after mostly clearing my stock investments. @PakFactor

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## FuturePAF

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518219351622664192
> 
> More proof of Russian war crimes


If their guided cruise missiles aren’t working it’s no wonder they are losing this war. Their only hope is ground power; artillery. Sending more men into the meat grinder then the opponent to win a war of attrition.

Sickening


----------



## thetutle

FuturePAF said:


> Orrin Hatch, Republican Senator from Utah just kicked the bucket, so it’s more likely then not a Pro-Trumper will take his place. We may not have to wait till 2024, because if either or both houses of Congress shift Republican they may hold up funding for military aid to Ukraine if Trump signals his disapproval of how Russia is being dealt with.


Listen to the senators and reps. there is zero chance of that happening.


----------



## F-22Raptor

FuturePAF said:


> If their guided cruise missiles aren’t working it’s no wonder they are losing this war. Their only hope is ground power; artillery. Sending more men into the meat grinder then the opponent to win a war of attrition.
> 
> Sickening





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518124555864313856

It was an intentional targeting of civilians

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## Broccoli

Beast said:


> NATO is an expansionist pact. Their aim is try to steal as much other land as possible. Its a colonial organization in disguise. Not much different from Imperial Japan or Nazi Germany. Russia is a fat meat. Good target to be invaded. Russia need to defend themselves against such evil organization.



How is NATO stealing land? Who's land has been stolen?



FuturePAF said:


> If their guided cruise missiles aren’t working it’s no wonder they are losing this war. Their only hope is ground power; artillery. Sending more men into the meat grinder then the opponent to win a war of attrition.
> 
> Sickening



Russians used that tactic succesfully during Soviet times when they could throw soldiers from other republics into the meat grinder but now they gotta use almost 100% their own boys.

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## thetutle

Meengla said:


> Indeed, there is a big bearing on the current Russia-Ukraine war on who becomes the next American President. Power does reside a lot in an American President's hands, despite admirable checks and balances in the system. Trump was a maverick--perhaps one of those once in a century leaders. And I think Putin too is a maverick.
> 
> I don't see Biden as the President in 2024. I have believed he is a seat-warmer for Harris. I don't know much about her though but, in general, an American President is a 'composite' of various lobbies and power inputs and has to abide by those sources' inputs--unless a Trump props up.
> 
> We sure are living in interesting--and dangerous times!
> 
> PS. My advice: Buy real assets! I am about to buy 12 acres of land near my home, after mostly clearing my stock investments. @PakFactor


Harris cant win office. She is a black woman with zero charisma. She obviously cares less about europe than any white president would. why would she care about europe? But she'll follow the party line. 

Trump would have massive presidential power, but the whole government and all CIA and military would turn on him if he supported Putin. He would literally have to avoid every briefing ever offered to him. I am not concerned about trump. If this war is still going on in 2024, just imagine what Russia's army would look like. by then they will have lost their entire professional army if it continues at this rate. 

2024 will look very different.

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518180820015620098
> 
> Germany to buy 60 Chinooks



At least they are starting to finally build their armed forces..... a bit late of course...


----------



## FuturePAF

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518124555864313856
> 
> It was an intentional targeting of civilians


To what end, it doesn’t make sense. It this case, it’s probably incompetence, because what strategic, operational or even tactical benefit does that strike one a civilian apartment far from the front serve?


----------



## F-22Raptor

FuturePAF said:


> To what end, it doesn’t make sense. It this case, it’s probably incompetence, because what strategic, operational or even tactical benefit does that strike one a civilian apartment far from the front serve?



To terrorize the civilian population

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## FuturePAF

Broccoli said:


> How is NATO stealing land? Who's land has been stolen?
> 
> 
> 
> Russians used that tactic succesfully during Soviet times when they could throw soldiers from other republics into the meat grinder but now they gotta use almost 100% their own boys.


That’s true, the Soviets did use those tactics. Central Asians sent into Afghanistan to be used like cannon fodder.



F-22Raptor said:


> To terrorize the civilian population


I guess your right, at this point I wouldn’t put anything past Putin.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Ghanima or trophies arms captured from the Ukrainians. It looks like those Western-provided atgms are finding themselves into Russian and pro-Russian forces. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518207609186226176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518229891921104896

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## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## F-22Raptor

FuturePAF said:


> That’s true, the Soviets did use those tactics. Central Asians sent into Afghanistan to be used like cannon fodder.
> 
> 
> I guess your right, at this point I wouldn’t put anything past Putin.




Just like how they fired a Tochka ballistic missile at that train station full of civilians killing 60 people including children. I saw a photo of a young boy with his face completely blown off from that attack.

These are crimes against humanity.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518233522573557767


----------



## Viet

Beast said:


> NATO is an expansionist pact. Their aim is try to steal as much other land as possible. Its a colonial organization in disguise. Not much different from Imperial Japan or Nazi Germany. Russia is a fat meat. Good target to be invaded. Russia need to defend themselves against such evil organization.


Good joke
Beware, Putin may look at China. You have money. Does China have any Nazi organization?

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## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> At least they are starting to finally build their armed forces..... a bit late of course...


Germany army is in very bad shape. Too many here in the past believe to peaceful rise shit from Russia. That’s I always for Vietnam military buildup. If necessary with nuclear arms. I never believe to chinese peaceful rise rhetoric. If we are weak they will come we could end up in gas chambers.
5 billion euros for Boeing
Not cheap
US weapons manufacturers have big time.


----------



## Beast

Viet said:


> Good joke
> Beware, Putin may look at China. You have money. Does China have any Nazi organization?


It no joke. Look at NATO, keep expanding and adding members. Setup the falsehood of threat and scare others to join. Ban RT and other media while brag about freedom of press but keep spreading false news. The hull mark of nazi organization. Where did NATO learn from? Joseph Goebbels?

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## Viet

Beast said:


> It no joke. Look at NATO, keep expanding and adding members. Setup the falsehood of threat and scare others to join. Ban RT and other media while brag about freedom of press but keep spreading false news. The hull mark of nazi organization. Where did NATO learn from? Joseph Goebbels?


RT has no license hence forbidden. Why don’t you allow RT to broadcast in China? Where your moral compass?
NATO expansion has nothing to do with other countries not concerned. They are sovereign countries they can do what they want.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518243356136116225

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## MajesticPug

Viet said:


> RT has no license hence forbidden. Why don’t you allow RT to broadcast in China? Where your moral compass?
> NATO expansion has nothing to do with other countries not concerned. They are sovereign countries they can do what they want.


Braindead argument. China does not brand itself the pinnacle of 'freedom of press'. It's the West. Yet the West banned RT by not issuing license, not the other way around. I know some Vietnamese friends are smart.. but I guess listening to American media turned many stupid.

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## Viet

MajesticPug said:


> Braindead argument. China does not brand itself the pinnacle of 'freedom of press'. It's the West. Yet the West banned RT by not issuing license, not the other way around. I know some Vietnamese friends are smart.. but I guess listening to American media turned many stupid.


There are rules everyone has to respect. RT is a Russo government propaganda loudspeaker, and as such it is forbidden. What’s difficult to understand? 1.2 million Russians live here in Germany, I never heard any Russian here complaints that RT is banned. There are hundreds if not thousands other Russo media available they can access to.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518251056421122049

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518203177748897792
> 
> Those Russian Nazis got obliterated by 30mm.



Amazing.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518199170556911616

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518254166807830528

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## Beast

Viet said:


> RT has no license hence forbidden. Why don’t you allow RT to broadcast in China? Where your moral compass?
> NATO expansion has nothing to do with other countries not concerned. They are sovereign countries they can do what they want.


RT never applied for license to broadcast in China. They have no intention to broadcast in China and now you want to blame China? LOL.. RT has no license becos of western double standard. Why not you blunt it out instead of beat around the bush.

As for NATO expansion, not without propaganda, orange revolution using lowlife trick to overthrow legal elected Ukraine government and replaced with a Western puppet. And you can called that democracy? As I say, NATO is wolf in sheep skin. No different from Nazi organization and white supremacy.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518167123696177156

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518250559664500736


----------



## The SC

It was reported that a large number of missiles were launched from the warships of the Russian Navy stationed in the waters of the Caspian Sea towards Ukraine.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518253867489710085

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518196699445051393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518175352828219393

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## zartosht

these azov terrorists and their western backers have pretty much reached the bottom end of the scum spectrum. 

you simply cannot get lower and more cowardly then azov. Kidnapping, forcing, and tricking civilians into the steel plant to use as a human shield.

and western propaganda tells you its voluntary. Kids and women enjoy hiding in a bunker, getting starvation level rations, not seeing the sun for months/years... because... evil putin? 

Russia has opened a corridor, civilians are allowed to leave at any time. Multiple cease fires for this exact reason. Not a single 1 left. thats voluntary? western propaganda says yes. *human logic says NO*

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518078262173446144


----------



## nangyale

Beast said:


> It no joke. Look at NATO, keep expanding and adding members. Setup the falsehood of threat and scare others to join. Ban RT and other media while brag about freedom of press but keep spreading false news. The hull mark of nazi organization. Where did NATO learn from? Joseph Goebbels?


Well the leader of the West today is one named *Joseph* Biden😉

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518230917331959808

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518233503082627074

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518236247940276224


----------



## Viet

Beast said:


> RT never applied for license to broadcast in China. They have no intention to broadcast in China and now you want to blame China? LOL.. RT has no license becos of western double standard. Why not you blunt it out instead of beat around the bush.
> 
> As for NATO expansion, not without propaganda, orange revolution using lowlife trick to overthrow legal elected Ukraine government and replaced with a Western puppet. And you can called that democracy? As I say, NATO is wolf in sheep skin. No different from Nazi organization and white supremacy.


Forget RT. TikTok is allowed. Now your turn: you allow youtube in China.
NATO will expand to Sweden, Finland, later to Serbia, Ukraine. Why don’t you establish a China fan club and invite Putin? What stopping you?


----------



## Foinikas

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518078262173446144


I remember the first video from back then! 

The Ukrainian ultra-nationalist militias used to go around,patrolling on their own,doing whatever they want,basically like the S.A. back in Nazi Germany.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517971589928783873


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518202826320756736


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517983027040854017


----------



## nangyale

Viet said:


> Forget RT. TikTok is allowed. Now your turn: you allow youtube in China.
> NATO will expand to Sweden, Finland, later to Serbia, Ukraine. Why don’t you establish a China fan club and invite Putin? What stopping you?


There is no need for Russia or China to build such an alliance.


----------



## thetutle

Beast said:


> It no joke. Look at NATO, keep expanding and adding members. Setup the falsehood of threat and scare others to join. Ban RT and other media while brag about freedom of press but keep spreading false news. The hull mark of nazi organization. Where did NATO learn from? Joseph Goebbels?


lol, people lining up to join nato, why would they be sacred? maybe to avoid ending up like Ukraine?


The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518230917331959808


French intelligence? the one that didnt know about the invasion?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518221902673817602


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Amazing.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518199170556911616





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518217542170550273

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518255454106828800


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518226193602031616


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518232529748344832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518203946623451136


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518248220572499969

Damn this is brutal


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518201635306094594

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518201635306094594


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518224966520643585

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518199771495862272


----------



## Wergeland

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518230917331959808



France and Germany are doing everything they can to stop this war but they of course dont want to seen as not being in line with NATO objectives. Thats a tough task because right now IMO there is a mismatch between the long term goals goal of the EU and NATO.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518198583618641920


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518260082659713024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518271644862713857

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518190808247250946


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518271644862713857


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518190808247250946


----------



## The SC

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518217542170550273


Look like the UA army is getting itself in the mouth of that green trap..

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## MajesticPug

Viet said:


> There are rules everyone has to respect. RT is a Russo government propaganda loudspeaker, and as such it is forbidden. What’s difficult to understand? 1.2 million Russians live here in Germany, I never heard any Russian here complaints that RT is banned. There are hundreds if not thousands other Russo media available they can access to.



LOL... Any media, anyone saying things not in alignment with the West's government agenda are propaganda. That's the pinnacle of 'freedom of speech'. Nice.

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## FuturePAF

Ordinary Russians that oppose the war are being dragged into it. The frenzy just keeps ramping up.


----------



## zartosht

Im willing to bet there are many top leaders in the weatern intel/security apparatus that regret sinking that 40 year old rust bucket

Moskva had practically 0 military value. Its crew are safe. And the absolute rage it cost Russia has given Putin enough domestic politcal capital to go absolutely miedeval on ukraine. 

Losses will mean nothing going forward. Infact it will be Russian leadership trying to calm the people down from demanding massive escalation.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> Look like the UA army is getting itself in the mouth of that green trap..




Yup, that cauldron is forming on the Ukrainian forces. And this is happening because the comedian Zelensky doesn't want any Ukrainian soldiers to withdraw. When you let a politician to make battlefield decisions, that is what happens.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518183160726622208


----------



## K_Bin_W

MajesticPug said:


> LOL... Any media, anyone saying things not in alignment with the West's government agenda are propaganda. That's the pinnacle of 'freedom of speech'. Nice.


During Gulf was Al-Jazeera was banned along with a few others.... You got to understand it's called freedom of speech...


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518195335411105792

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## Paul2

mazeto said:


> That's exactly what the Saudis and Emiratis did to the Houthi. Look now where they are...
> NATO will look to deescalate a couple years down the line when Eastern Ukraine missiles start raining down on their country under Russian nuclear cover



And Saudis can't do anything with those Bedouins with flintlock rifles for 8 years.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Ukrainian PoWs


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518281424339705862


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518125964525461508

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## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> Amazing.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518199170556911616



Russia is well on the way to losing Kherson and when that happens - it will undermine the Donbass-Crimea land bridge.

Once Ukraine gets around to destroying the Crimea - Russia bridge - then Russia's position in the south will be highly compromised.

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## Paul2

khansaheeb said:


> Sooner or later the Ruskies are going to run out. Now, what if the Ruskies use a nuke on Ukraine, what's going to happen then?>



Ukraine has 40m population, and its military + supply chain is 1m people at most, of which 400 thousands are troops, and territorials.

You will need really a lot of nukes to make difference militarily.

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## The SC

The apex of hypocrisy..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518239795503411200

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518276666782531586


----------



## Viet

nangyale said:


> There is no need for Russia or China to build such an alliance.


Because they are BIG.
Big countries don’t rely on other for protection but small countries do.
Putin and Xi sleep on the same bed though. De facto in alliance.
Chinese repeat Russian war narratives.
NATO, Nazi, Drug addicts run Ukraine. Those gangs oppress Russian speaking people.
Putin will use the same pretexts to invade Moldavia, Georgia, Baltic’s, Poland.
Xi will use to invade Vietnam.
Chinese will accuse us we oppress chinese speaking people in Vietnam.


----------



## FuturePAF

zartosht said:


> Im willing to bet there are many top leaders in the weatern intel/security apparatus that regret sinking that 40 year old rust bucket
> 
> Moskva had practically 0 military value. Its crew are safe. And the absolute rage it cost Russia has given Putin enough domestic politcal capital to go absolutely miedeval on ukraine.
> 
> Losses will mean nothing going forward. Infact it will be Russian leadership trying to calm the people down from demanding massive escalation.


The Russian people had already been wiped up into a frenzy by Russian state propaganda. More Russians probably died in a day in Mariupol and the surrounding region then on that ship, I assume. What it actually did was give the Ukrainians hope that they could prevent Odessa and other parts of Ukraine falling to the Russians. The Russians will be brutal to stamp down on that hope. That is why they will go Stalin on the Ukrainians.

The propaganda on the western side is also pretty heavy, to the point COVID is basically forgotten.


----------



## Paul2

thetutle said:


> French intelligence? the one that didnt know about the invasion?



Do French have an intelligence?


----------



## Soldier35

A powerful blow from the Russian UR-77 in Ukraine. The Russian military, in the battles in Ukraine, began to use installations for demining, for strikes against the enemy. The UR-77 "Meteorite" mine-clearing installation, also known as the "Snake Gorynych", was created on the basis of the 2S1 Gvozdika self-propelled howitzer and is designed to make moves in anti-tank minefields during the battle. The UR-77 "Meteorite" installation, with the help of rockets, fires powder charges placed in hoses at a distance of about 500 meters. After that, the car drives back, the hose with the charge is stretched and it is activated. One of the episodes of the combat use of the UR-77 in Ukraine was caught on video

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518261789108097024

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## The SC

Paul2 said:


> And Saudis can't do anything with those Bedouins with flintlock rifles for 8 years.


They didn't want Yemen to look like Ukraine now..that is what people need to understand..


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518044483983716352

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518198643664338945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518169445771980800

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518293687582789632

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## SalarHaqq

thetutle said:


> no they want their old borders back. to revive the Russian empire. and Russia will expand to Kazakstan, Azerbaijan. Moldova. and will keep expanding until nato intervenes,.



Post-Soviet Russia hasn't intervened militarily other than against neighbors ruled by strictly anti-Russian regimes which engaged in open collaboration with NATO and served as hubs for subversive activity and security threats against Moscow. Consequently, Kazakhstan and the like have had nothing to fear.

Russia and the USA are like apples and oranges in this regard. Whilst Russia is defining its foreign policy in strictly classical terms of national security, and is therefore not envisaging military options beyond its immediate neighborhood as well as in defence of a handful of close strategic allies, the US regime has proclaimed itself as the exclusive global policeman and hegemon.

More importantly, the ideological foundations of "America"'s imperialist expansionism are of an active messianist nature, a masonic, secularized form of Kabbalist and Christian zionist messianism. And this makes it immensely more dangerous to world peace and security as well as to mankind than Russia will ever be. Because megalomaniac rulers driven by an active messianist ideology will be tempted to pull the trigger on everyone as soon as things start turning out differently than what they imagined.



thetutle said:


> But you admit now that it was clearly not wrong to take over Iraq. especially to establish a democratic government. And you also admit that it would be justified take over Cuba.



Hereby you are indirectly highlighting why the US regime is immeasurably more dangerous to international security than Russia. Because it illegally attributes itself the "right" to topple governments under bogus pretexts such as "spreading democracy" and "removing dictators".

Bogus since:

1) For centuries, the US regime itself has been sponsoring and protecting the worst types of autocrats and dictators. Contemporary examples include Saudi Arabia and many others. Washington's double standards and hypocrisy in this regard are beyond nauseating. I doubt that in 2022 people can still be led down the garden path by the US regime's appalling and outright disgusting two-facedness on the subject.

2) The US regime consciously lied to the UN, lied to its public, lied to the world by concocting fake "evidence" and trumped-up charges to try and justify its illegal 2003 invasion of Iraq. From the standpoint of international regulations, it was therefore an unlawful and criminal act. Defence Secretary Rumsfeld had a covert special office set up to this effect, and worthless "informants" such as the one codenamed "Curveball" were cited to falsely incriminate the Iraqi government. In the UK the 2016 Chilcot report concluded that then Prime Minister Blair had distorted the data he was privy to on the Iraq WMD dossier (Baghdad had dismantled its stockpiles during the 1990's), former UN Secretary General Kofi Annan declared that the war on Iraq was illegal, former US Secretary of State Colin Powell came to regret the presentation he made at the Security Council brandishing a fake anthrax vial, former UN chief weapons inspector Hans Blix expressed anger over how the regimes in Washington and London handled information in the run up to the war.

Chilcot report: Blair didn't tell truth about WMDs, the deal with Bush or the warnings of fallout​https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ss-destruction-evidence-verdict-a7122361.html

Kofi Annan says Iraq war was illegal​https://www.irishtimes.com/news/kofi-annan-says-iraq-war-was-illegal-1.990279

Blix Speaks of Personal Anger over Iraq​








Blix Speaks of Personal Anger over Iraq | DW | 18.02.2004


Former UN chief weapons inspector Hans Blix again criticized the way U.S. and U.K leaders handled information in the run-up to the Iraq war. He also warned leaders to remain wary of North Korea during his lecture tour.




www.dw.com





The event Colin Powell long regretted​








The event Colin Powell long regretted | CNN


As a hero of the first Gulf War, Colin Powell was widely viewed as a trusted figure when the Bush administration sought to make the case for war against Iraq, writes Peter Bergen. So President George W. Bush turned to Powell to present the anti-iraq case at the United Nations.




edition.cnn.com





3) Illegal invasions by the USA (e.g. Iraq in 2003) are not aimed at replacing a dictatorship with democracy at all. Their goal is to obliterate and dismantle nation-states, shatter their social fabric and infrastructures for generations to come, in conformity with the Ralph Peters and Arthur Cebrowsky strategy as well as with the Bernard Lewis and Oded Yinon masterplans for West Asia. Basing themselves on the work of authors such as Natan Sharansky and the philosopher Leo Strauss, US neoconservatives devised a policy of plunging nations into what they openly refer to as "constructive chaos" i.e. the deliberate provocation of instability and enduring calamity for the populations of targeted countries. Foreign policy wise, both neoconservatives and liberal hawks seek to impose US hegemony on the world, through equally repressive and abject means.

4) Liberal secular "democracies" of the west are in fact the single most totalitarian political systems in existence, as conceptualized by political philosopher Sheldon Wolin. They rely on social engineering to impose a pre-defined outcome in all things political and to de facto enslave their citizenry while at the same time projecting an illusion of freedom and pluralism. This is a particularly under-handed and perfidious form of suffocating dissent. However, this system is slowly nearing its end, as the naked coercive brutality of liberal so-called "democracies" is slowly but surely starting to spill over from foreign theaters of military aggression to their own home turf. Case in point, the unprecedented censorship practiced by western regimes and their affiliated capitalist corporations with regards to the current NATO-provoked war in Ukraine.



thetutle said:


> Yes, two wrongs done, but the US wrong in Iraq is much less because they removed a dictator who invaded sovereign Kuwait and killed 1 million Iranians.



Iran lost about 280.000 (not a million) of her citizens as a result of the 1980-1988 Imposed War.

Plus, it was chiefly the criminal US regime which propped up Saddam and encouraged the dictator to invade Iran. It was the US and US-allied NATO member states which were at the forefront of backing Saddam's Iraq in its aggression against Iran.

Including by supplying him with all he needed to manufacture and employ *WMD* against both Iranian military and civilians, and moreover preventing the UN Security Council from sanctioning Iraq for its use of chemical weapons. Indeed, in its unlimited cynicism the US regime went as far as resorting to its veto power against a UNSC draft resolution designed to condemn Iraqi WMD use versus Iran.

Some instructive papers:

*Arming Iraq: A Chronology of U.S. Involvement*
By: John King, March 2003
https://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/arming_iraq.php

*The Iran-Iraq War: Serving American Interests*
By: The Research Unit for Political Economy (R.U.P.E.), Mumbai (Bombay), India




__





Iran Chamber Society: History of Iran: The Iran-Iraq War: Serving American Interests


Iranian Historical & Cultural Information Center



www.iranchamber.com










The US regime is truly the very last entity on earth to be entitled to invoke Saddam's crimes in order to justify an invasion of Iraq, invasion which directly and indirectly caused the deaths of *1,5 million Iraqis *as per a report by The Lancet, a respected British medical journal.

This is without mentioning *half a million Iraqi children *killed as a result of the US-imposed embargo in the 1990's. With former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright publicly declaring on CNN that this mind-boggling toll was "worth it". Not in a century could Saddam, for all his barbarity, have come even remotely close to the havoc wrecked upon the Iraqi people by the regime in Washington.









Let’s remember Madeleine Albright for who she really was


The late US diplomat, who thought the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children were ‘worth it’, was no ‘force for human rights’.




www.aljazeera.com












thetutle said:


> Of course I jumped for joy when they got rid of the lowlife Saddam.



The whole world minus a few NATO sympathizers will jump up and down of joy when the US regime leaders and oligarchy are gotten rid of.



thetutle said:


> The fact is, you dont invade a sovereign country and try to annex its territory and get away with it in the post WW2 world. Saddam disregarded the rules based order by trying to take parts of Iran and all of Kuwaitt.



Neither do you invoke false pretexts to launch illegal invasions of sovereign nations like the US regime did against Iraq in 2003. Those responsible for such actions are war criminals and should stand trial. Regimes that conduct such policies must be stopped and pushed back for the sake of peace, security and the general well being of mankind.



thetutle said:


> Now that russia is doing, it, the same fate will befall it sooner or later. It has moved against the rules based world order. It will end badly for them.



The list of crimes committed by the US regime at the global scale is so extensive and virtually endless, that the fate which will befall that regime and its dominant oligarchy is going to make the earth tremble.



thetutle said:


> Cuba had a right to host the missiles, but JFK could too handle it and Russia pulled them back, then JFK was killed because of his recklessness by a communist sympathiser from a book depository.



The notion that Kennedy was eliminated by anyone other than the US regime's own deep state is frankly far-fetched.



thetutle said:


> Yeah, its a tough one, because there was no going back for Iraq after their failed invasion. And Saddam planned a dynastic rule over Iraq for generations like Assad. It just had to end.



The US has no business deciding what regime has to end and what regime is allowed to keep exercising power.



thetutle said:


> I think that no one has a right to be a dictator. And they all have to go. And they will go.



Liberal so-called "democracy" will be flushed out first. The zio-American empire has entered its historic phase of decline, it's on a downward spiral and its totalitarian messianic dream of world domination has already been lobbed into the trash can of history, in no small part thanks to that empire's own boundless hubris. It's going to go down as one of the most short lived and arrogant empires of all time.



thetutle said:


> Someone had to get rid of him for going against the rules based world order. the selfish American mistake was not doing it in 1991.



Someone will get rid of the US regime for being the most intensive violator of international norms and elementary human decency, its very inception being grounded in the genocide of the native population of northern "America".



thetutle said:


> they did some of this, for sure, but America's imposed world order in 1945 gave freedom from colonialism to so many.



The US-imposed order enslaved many more.

_____



Oldman1 said:


> Only? Their actions don't look only on NATO. More like denazify,



Local pseudo-nazis are NATO's main proxies. So denazification in Ukraine equals kicking out NATO goons.



Oldman1 said:


> demilitarize, conquer the country.



Consequence of the Kiev regime oppressing Russian communities in Ukraine and posing a security threat through its enthusiastic participation in NATO's destabilization plans against Russia.

_____



nangyale said:


> There are also these wonderful all American theme parks of Gitmo, Abu Gharib, Bagram and many more.
> 
> Why don't you use your great American invention and see what you find.



The US regime is the biggest and most systematic war criminal on this planet. It will be held to account. Soon enough.

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## PakFactor

I'm hearing they bombed the steel plant the Ukrainians were holding up in, is it confirmed? Russians should just do a shock and awe.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518202502700752906

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518271176669286402

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518274552077459456

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518281424339705862

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## The SC

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Ukrainian PoWs
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518281424339705862



17 people from the 36th Marine Brigade, two Azov, one Croat ,one foreign instructor.

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## Piotr

Neo-Nazi Fighters Set Up Blocking Detachment to Prevent Ukrainian Troops From Retreating, POW Says​2 hours ago






Blocking detachments, also known as “blocking units” or “anti-retreat forces”, go back to the times of Persia’s King Cyrus the Great, Genghis Khan, and the Napoleonic Wars. In the Western popular imagination, they are best known for their use by the Red Army during the Second World War thanks to Hollywood propaganda films like “Enemy at the Gates”.
Ukrainian forces have used blocking detachments commanded by neo-Nazis in an effort to keep up fighting discipline and stop desertion, Mikhail Yankovsky, a senior sergeant from a reconnaissance company who surrendered to Russian and Lugansk People’s Militia forces, has said.
“They stopped paying us in February, the supply situation was bad, things were especially tight with food. First they stopped delivering hot meals, then rations rarely came at all. They stopped evacuating the wounded”, the officer, attached to the 57th Separate Motorised Infantry Brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, said in an interview.

“After some young guys began laying down their arms and going over to the Lugansk [militia] side, a group of about 10 people arrived from the centre. Our commander, Colonel Meshynchuk, said they would provide psychological support. In reality, this group served as a blocking detachment. During each battle, they would watch us to make sure that nobody abandoned their positions. They fired without warning on anyone deemed suspicious”, Yankovsky said.

he commander of the blocking unit was a Right Sector fighter named Vuyko going by the nom de guerre "Punisher", according to the officer. His aides included a fighter from Ukraine’s Nikolaev region, a Georgian national, whom Yankovsky suspected was a mercenary, and a sniper with the alias "Raven" who would “take up a position in the rear during battle and threaten to kill anyone who runs in the wrong direction”.
Situated in the Donbass, a trickle of troops from the 57th Separate Motorised Infantry Brigade began deserting the Ukrainian Army and going over to the Lugansk People’s Republic forces’ side in late February. Media reports on desertions stopped in March. The 57th Brigade has since come up in LPR and Russian MoD reports on the situation on the front. On 13 April, the Russian military reported that two repair facilities and two missile and artillery depots were destroyed in precision strikes.

https://sputniknews.com/20220424/ne...oops-from-retreating-pow-says-1095012025.html


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518247524162805767

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518285061199740934
This is important ..because of the disparity in their policies about Ukraine..

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518289558705741826


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518293316676243458


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518281123683577856

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518235549462638592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518190449185497088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518203752905383936


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518286548751560705


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517998176237727746

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517961695305637889


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518224811729772545


----------



## Viet

Congrats. Macron wins the French presidency. The Franco German military projects can continue. 

Thanks Putin the wish list is coming fast.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518296850146762752

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518185604831494146

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518273360999895043

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518272674069417984

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518272411988279296


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518253714531704840
DeNazification in full display. 



Spoiler





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518222630834352128


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518230356507435008


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518070752792166401

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518219525094793218

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518288771485253633

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1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518312746030354434

Reactions: Like Like:
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## khansaheeb

The SC said:


> The apex of hypocrisy..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518239795503411200


Australia is like an over grown poodle that thinks it's a Rottweiller.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518232529748344832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518252856473702400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518234894396276745

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518284386495602689

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## khansaheeb

WotTen said:


> The video is so staged. The guys next to him are standing around having. a picnic.


looks like a ww1 gun, lol. Seems like NATO is giving the Ukrainians museum pieces.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518301073764716545
​​*The awful truth is dawning: Putin may win in Ukraine. The result would be catastrophe.. A Russian victory would herald a new age of instability, economic fragmentation, hunger for millions and social unrest*​
*Simon Tisdall*

_https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...in-in-ukraine-the-result-would-be-catastrophe_

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518203946623451136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518306378145746947

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## Hack-Hook

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518219351622664192
> 
> More proof of Russian war crimes


more proof that it was something fall from sky not a cruise missile hitting the target



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518124555864313856
> 
> It was an intentional targeting of civilians


as i said more look like it falling from sky , a little slow for me to call it a cruise missile hit the building

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## F-22Raptor

Hack-Hook said:


> more proof that it was something fall from sky not a cruise missile hitting the target
> 
> 
> as i said more look like it falling from sky , a little slow for me to call it a cruise missile hit the building




You can clearly hear the engine of the Kalibr cruise missile


----------



## Hack-Hook

F-22Raptor said:


> You can clearly hear the engine of the Kalibr cruise missile


well to me look like free fall, even our drone are faster and you can't see their movement so fluidly on the camera

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518323122348474370


Hack-Hook said:


> well to me look like free fall, even our drone are faster and you can't see their movement so fluidly on the camera




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518180869575528448


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## khansaheeb

Paul2 said:


> Ukraine has 40m population, and its military + supply chain is 1m people at most, of which 400 thousands are troops, and territorials.
> 
> You will need really a lot of nukes to make difference militarily.


Just the threat of Nuking Kiev would bring Ukraine to its knees. With its Capitol gone it would bring anarchy to the country and make it's people stateless.

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## zartosht

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518243356136116225




i know your a spamming troll here
but You have been spamming this nonesense from page 1. and yet the Russian Army moves on, captures territory, and is close to encircling tens of thousands of ukie cannon fodder. 

so the paratroopers are down to 10% battle strength? and yet they are fighting on multiple fronts? literaly 9 in 10 are dead but they still function as a fighting unit?

also if in a month they are still around and fighting. does that mean the ukies slaughtered the first 90% easily, but the other 10% were made of titanium with balls re-inforced with depleted uranium? 

you are an absolute clown spamming worthless crap.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518335909711732737

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518338557433323522

More Russian war crimes

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517890910893359106

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518332614373003265


----------



## Ali_Baba

lol.. is all I can say …

( do watch this chaps!! )

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## The SC

A neo-Nazi from the Azovstal dungeon was captured by the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation who told about the whereabouts of the main forces of fighters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the Azov National Battalion.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518278352896987138

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## PakAlp

Map update 24/04/2022. Is Russia trying to surround Ukrainian advance East of the blue line? @The SC @Hassan Al-Somal

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## Hassan Al-Somal

PakAlp said:


> Map update 24/04/2022. Is Russia trying to surround Ukrainian advance East of the blue line? @The SC @Hassan Al-Somal
> 
> View attachment 837663
> 
> View attachment 837662




Yup, a cauldron is forming on the Ukrainian forces in the East.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518346602976587778

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## Hassan Al-Somal

War is brutal. This below Telegraph channel is showing dead Ukrainian forces and their equipment destroyed in Kremennaya.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518342314447577088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511498261026201603

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518348732747636737

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518309355350896643

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518298443009212417


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## Ich

PakAlp said:


> Map update 24/04/2022. Is Russia trying to surround Ukrainian advance East of the blue line? @The SC @Hassan Al-Somal
> 
> View attachment 837663
> 
> View attachment 837662



If it would be that easy, then war would be already over. Lots of battles of encirclement needed for that part of Ukraine you showed with the blue line. Also Russia have to gain the triangel Krywyj Rih - Saporishshsj - Dnipropetrowsk while cleaning the east, to secure lines and cut Ukraine supplies. Whereas Dnipro doesnt need to be taken, just block the routes on both sites of the river. But me think Russia hasnt enough troops in Ukraine to do this at the same time - the triangle and the east-encirclements. So we will see slow gains for Russia in the east, but gains.

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## jamal18

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518301073764716545
> ​​*The awful truth is dawning: Putin may win in Ukraine. The result would be catastrophe.. A Russian victory would herald a new age of instability, economic fragmentation, hunger for millions and social unrest*​
> *Simon Tisdall*
> 
> _https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...in-in-ukraine-the-result-would-be-catastrophe_


Almost all of the serious non-partisan commentators have been saying this since the beginning.


----------



## Wood

Ali_Baba said:


> lol.. is all I can say …
> 
> ( do watch this chaps!! )


Opening line was a killer. 

"For decades Russia was the second most powerful military in the world. Today, it is the second most powerful military in Ukraine"

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## jamal18

PakAlp said:


> Map update 24/04/2022. Is Russia trying to surround Ukrainian advance East of the blue line? @The SC @Hassan Al-Somal
> 
> View attachment 837663
> 
> View attachment 837662


No, that's too far back.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518355088766554114

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## PakAlp

Ich said:


> If it would be that easy, then war would be already over. Lots of battles of encirclement needed for that part of Ukraine you showed with the blue line. Also Russia have to gain the triangel Krywyj Rih - Saporishshsj - Dnipropetrowsk while cleaning the east, to secure lines and cut Ukraine supplies. Whereas Dnipro doesnt need to be taken, just block the routes on both sites of the river. But me think Russia hasnt enough troops in Ukraine to do this at the same time - the triangle and the east-encirclements. So we will see slow gains for Russia in the east, but gains.


Do you mean up to this river so it cuts off supplies from the river. Yes It does look very difficult and it is taking a long time. Ukraine is giving a unbelievable fight. I expected 100,00+ Ukrainian rebels joining Russia but at the moment they are under 30,000.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518344500158111744


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518287762885165057


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## PakAlp

@Ich


----------



## Ich

PakAlp said:


> Do you mean up to this river so it cuts off supplies from the river. Yes It does look very difficult and it is taking a long time. Ukraine is giving a unbelievable fight. I expected 100,00+ Ukrainian rebels joining Russia but at the moment they are under 30,000.
> View attachment 837672



Just draw the blue line further over Krywyj Rih to Transnistria. That me think is the minimum goal Russia wants to accomplish.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518345360493752321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518345691160096774

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518346394255433728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518347507746709505

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## PakAlp

Ich said:


> Just draw the blue line further over Krywyj Rih to Transnistria. That me think is the minimum goal Russia wants to accomplish.


That will be the main goal. They will link Transnistria to Ukraine Donbass, Crimea and to the mainland Russia. To hold this terrority it depends on the amount of local support.

A total of 21000 troops, 873 tanks are said to have been destroyed, along with 2238 armoured vehicles, 179 planes, 154 helicopters and 408 artillery systems.









Russia has lost 873 tanks, 179 aircraft and 21,800 troops in Ukraine


The latest statistics, published today by the Ukrainian Land Forces, suggest 21,800 Russian fighters have been killed amid bitter resistance - though this figure could not be verified.




www.dailymail.co.uk


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518369223306887169

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## Ich

PakAlp said:


> That will be the main goal. They will link Transnistria to Ukraine Donbass, Crimea and to the mainland Russia. To hold this terrority it depends on the amount of local support.
> 
> A total of 21000 troops, 873 tanks are said to have been destroyed, along with 2238 armoured vehicles, 179 planes, 154 helicopters and 408 artillery systems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has lost 873 tanks, 179 aircraft and 21,800 troops in Ukraine
> 
> 
> The latest statistics, published today by the Ukrainian Land Forces, suggest 21,800 Russian fighters have been killed amid bitter resistance - though this figure could not be verified.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk



Me think the main goal includes all of east of the waterway/river Dnepr also. But me dont think that will happen. After taking the south, peace talks will end the war cause west do not want to lose more territory, want to stay as near at Moscau as possible. After Russia taken the south, Selensky and co. will die in some kind of bombing or shooting (done by the west) and then peace will be signed and new borders drawn.

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## The SC

“The missile and artillery forces carried out 423 firing missions during the night,” said Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Major-General Igor Konashenkov, adding that in particular, 26 command posts, 367 fortifications points and places for gathering manpower and military equipment, as well as 25 weapons production lines were hit.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518361626600099840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518358907453857792
*** very good article from the Guardian..

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518278177969299457


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518378495801499650

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518379761185218562
Massive explosions in Russia.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518377153192153089

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518383893698732032

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## Hallian_Khan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517832679542173696


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518380357279703041
Lukashenko loop hole must be stopped!


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## CAPRICORN-88

RoadAmerica said:


> Ha here you go again, Russia hasn’t supples weapons since ‘14…….come on man.
> Who’s
> The
> Real
> Troll
> 
> 
> The point I was making is you clowns say the the US shouldn’t do it but it’s ok for Russia to do it because the US did it, see the irony of your argument 🤷🏿‍♂️


You are the troll because it is true. 

It is on record even the US and Kiev have admitted it. 

The weapons used by the militia were captured from blackmart and Ukrainian Forces themselves. 

Today Russia supplied them with captured weaponries including Javelin and Stinger missiles. 

So stop trolling and go home. 

Ukraine is meanwhile considering retreating from Lugansk in view of the heavy artilleries shelling.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518371071774310400

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518377153192153089
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518383893698732032


If I recall correctly, this town is important for Russian fuel reserves in this invasion


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## CAPRICORN-88

A.P. Richelieu said:


> There is plenty of evidence gathered by multiple groups.


Sure.

*They did and they included the "Ghost of Kyiv." from Gamer, a dead in bodybags that came alive for a breath of fresh air, Troika U missile with almost similar batch number as those used by Ukrainian Forces, et cetera. *

The sources?

Folks who wrote about them thousands of miles away from the warzones in Ukraine.

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## WotTen

khansaheeb said:


> looks like a ww1 gun, lol. Seems like NATO is giving the Ukrainians museum pieces.



It's probably not even NATO. They probably took it out of a museum or dusty warehouse to make a propaganda video.

We expect lame propaganda from authoritarian governments like Russia, China, North Korea because they have little experience in, or need for, clever mass media manipulation, but democratic countries are masters of propaganda. The Ukrainians should have hired American or British media consultants before making these videos.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Sorry we are smarter than that.


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518265106592841729


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518395398456590337

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## CAPRICORN-88

*There is no way out of the crisis for Ukraine except to negotiate for a truce no matter how late it is.* Listening to the serpent and bald eagle will brings undesirable consequences. 

The end results will be the same, no matter how many weapons the US and the West are preparing to send to Ukraine. 

They will just ended up in blackmart and the rebels. 

All these heroic tales by brave Ukrainians written by bloggers thousands of miles away are just meant to lift their low morale but Russia forces will grind them to broken pieces slowly but surely just they did to Nazi Germany and ISIS in Syria. 

*Like it or not, Ukraine will ended up like the former Yugoslavia curved into many nations by the US and NATO.*

Soon Ukraine will lose complete access to the Black Sea. 

Crimea and now Odessa will be lost forever. 

I have no idea why the continue holdout in Azovstal Steelworks with their families by the Azov neo-nazi battalion. Nothing heroic about that.

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## Beast

zartosht said:


> these azov terrorists and their western backers have pretty much reached the bottom end of the scum spectrum.
> 
> you simply cannot get lower and more cowardly then azov. Kidnapping, forcing, and tricking civilians into the steel plant to use as a human shield.
> 
> and western propaganda tells you its voluntary. Kids and women enjoy hiding in a bunker, getting starvation level rations, not seeing the sun for months/years... because... evil putin?
> 
> Russia has opened a corridor, civilians are allowed to leave at any time. Multiple cease fires for this exact reason. Not a single 1 left. thats voluntary? western propaganda says yes. *human logic says NO*


The western world are wolf in sheep skin bragging about human right and moral practices when they are no different from savage.

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## thetutle

SalarHaqq said:


> Post-Soviet Russia hasn't intervened militarily other than against neighbors ruled by strictly anti-Russian regimes which engaged in open collaboration with NATO and served as hubs for subversive activity and security threats against Moscow. Consequently, Kazakhstan and the like have had nothing to fear.
> 
> Russia and the USA are like apples and oranges in this regard. Whilst Russia is defining its foreign policy in strictly classical terms of national security, and is therefore not envisaging military options beyond its immediate neighborhood as well as in defence of a handful of close strategic allies, the US regime has proclaimed itself as the exclusive global policeman and hegemon.
> 
> More importantly, the ideological foundations of "America"'s imperialist expansionism are of an active messianist nature, a masonic, secularized form of Kabbalist and Christian zionist messianism. And this makes it immensely more dangerous to world peace and security as well as to mankind than Russia will ever be. Because megalomaniac rulers driven by an active messianist ideology will be tempted to pull the trigger on everyone as soon as things start turning out differently than what they imagined.
> 
> 
> 
> Hereby you are indirectly highlighting why the US regime is immeasurably more dangerous to international security than Russia. Because it illegally attributes itself the "right" to topple governments under bogus pretexts such as "spreading democracy" and "removing dictators".
> 
> Bogus because:
> 
> 1) For centuries, the US regime itself has been sponsoring and protecting the worst types of autocrats and dictators. Contemporary examples include Saudi Arabia and many others. Washington's double standards and hypocrisy in this regard are beyond nauseating. I doubt that in 2022 people can still be led down the garden path by the US regime's appalling and outright disgusting two-facedness on the subject.
> 
> 2) The US regime consciously lied to the UN, lied to its public, lied to the world by concocting fake "evidence" and trumped-up charges to try and justify its illegal 2003 invasion of Iraq. From the standpoint of international legal norms, it was therefore an unlawful and criminal act. Defence Secretary Rumsfeld had a covert special office set up to this effect, and worthless "informants" such as the one codenamed "Curveball" were cited to falsely incriminate the Iraqi government.
> 
> 3) Illegal invasions by the US (e.g. Iraq in 2003) are not aimed at replacing a dictatorship with democracy at all. Their goal is to obliterate and dismantle nation-states, shatter their social fabric and infrastructures for generations to come, in conformity with the Ralph Peters and Arthur Cebrowsky strategy as well as with the Bernard Lewis and Oded Yinon masterplans for West Asia. Basing themselves on the work of authors such as Nathan Sharansky and the philosopher Leo Strauss, US neoconservatives devised a policy of plunging nations into what they refer to as "constructive chaos" i.e. the deliberate provocation of instability and enduring calamity for the populations of targeted countries. Foreign policy wise, both neoconservatives and liberal hawks seek to impose US hegemony on the world, through equally repressive and sordid means.
> 
> 4) Liberal secular "democracies" of the west are in fact the single most totalitarian political systems in existence, as conceptualized by political philosopher Sheldon Wolin. They rely on social engineering to impose a pre-defined outcome in all things political and to de facto enslave their citizenry while at the same time projecting an illusion of freedom and pluralism. This is a particularly under-handed and perfidious form of suffocating dissent. However, this system is slowly nearing its end, as the naked coercive brutality of liberal so-called "democracies" is slowly but surely starting to spill over from foreign theaters of military aggression to their own home turf. Case in point, the unprecedented censorship practiced by western regimes and their affiliated capitalist corporations with regards to the current NATO-provoked war in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> Iran lost about 280.000 (not a million) of her citizens as a result of the 1980-1988 Imposed War.
> 
> Plus, it was chiefly the criminal US regime which propped up Saddam and encouraged the dictator to invade Iran. It was the US and US-allied NATO member states which were at the forefront of backing Saddam's Iraq in its aggression against Iran.
> 
> Including by supplying him with all he needed to manufacture and employ *WMD* against both Iranian military and civilians, and moreover preventing the UN Security Council from sanctioning Iraq for its use of chemical weapons. Indeed, in its unlimited cynicism the US regime went as far as resorting to its veto power against a UNSC draft resolution designed to condemn Iraqi WMD use versus Iran.
> 
> Some instructive papers:
> 
> *Arming Iraq: A Chronology of U.S. Involvement*
> By: John King, March 2003
> https://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/arming_iraq.php
> 
> *The Iran-Iraq War: Serving American Interests*
> By: The Research Unit for Political Economy (R.U.P.E.), Mumbai (Bombay), India
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran Chamber Society: History of Iran: The Iran-Iraq War: Serving American Interests
> 
> 
> Iranian Historical & Cultural Information Center
> 
> 
> 
> www.iranchamber.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The US regime is truly the very last entity on earth to be entitled to invoke Saddam's crimes in order to justify an invasion of Iraq, invasion which directly and indirectly caused the deaths of *1,5 million Iraqis *as per a report published by The Lancet, a respected British medical journal.
> 
> This is without mentioning *half a million Iraqi children *killed as a result of the US-imposed embargo in the 1990's. With former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright publicly declaring on CNN that this mind-boggling toll was "worth it". Not in a century could Saddam, for all his barbarity, have come even remotely close to the havoc wrecked upon the Iraqi population by the regime in Washington.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let’s remember Madeleine Albright for who she really was
> 
> 
> The late US diplomat, who thought the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children were ‘worth it’, was no ‘force for human rights’.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The whole world minus a few NATO sympathizers will jump up and down of joy when the US regime leaders and oligarchy are gotten rid of.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither do you invoke false pretexts to launch illegal invasions of sovereign nations like the US regime did against Iraq in 2003. Those responsible for such actions are war criminals and should stand trial. Regimes that conduct such policies must be stopped and pushed back for the sake of peace, security and the general well being of mankind.
> 
> 
> 
> The list of crimes committed by the US regime at the global scale is so extensive and virtually endless, that the fate which will befall that regime and its dominant oligarchy is going to be shatter the earth.
> 
> 
> 
> The notion that Kennedy was eliminated by anyone other than the US regime's own deep state is frankly far-fetched.
> 
> 
> 
> The US has no business deciding what regime has to end and what regime is allowed to keep exercising power.
> 
> 
> 
> Liberal so-called "democracy" will be flushed out first. The zio-American empire has entered its historic phase of decline, it's on a downward spiral and its totalitarian messianic dream of world domination has already been lobbed into the trash can of history, in no small part thanks to that empire's own boundless hubris. It's going to go down as one of the most short lived and arrogant empires of all time.
> 
> 
> 
> Someone will get rid of the US regime for being the single most intensive violator of international norms and elementary human decency, its very inception being grounded in the genocide of the native population of northern "America".
> 
> 
> 
> The US-imposed order enslaved many more.
> 
> _____
> 
> 
> 
> Local pseudo-nazis are NATO's main proxies. So denazification in Ukraine equals kicking out NATO goons.
> 
> 
> 
> Consequence of the Kiev regime oppressing Russian communities in Ukraine and posing a security threat through its enthusiastic participation in NATO's destabilization plans against Russia.
> 
> _____
> 
> 
> 
> The US regime is the biggest and most systematic war criminal on this planet. It will pay. Dearly and soon enough.


It’s remarkable who the western countries give citizenships to. I would definitely have a citizenship review. Some people take all the benefits of the west and yet work to undermine it.


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## Meengla

Ich said:


> Just draw the blue line further over Krywyj Rih to Transnistria. That me think is the minimum goal Russia wants to accomplish.



The minimal goal is also probably the maximal goal--and very much doable and strategic enough to declare some 'victory' by Putin: A Ukraine cut off from Black Sea and Russia having access from Transnistria to Donbas to Russia, while ensuring water to the Crimean Peninsula. All of such goals within reach of Russia. Remember that: Finland, too, gave a bloody nose to the Soviet Union just before WW 2 started but the Soviets eventually got more than what they initially wanted. 

This war looks like a duplicate of that and no amount of social media noise could undo the gains on the ground. We should not forget that barely 6 months ago before this war started, all the trolls could not stop what the Afghan Talibans achieved toppling a supposedly mighty Afghan govt and even the boastful son of the Lion of Panjshir! Where is he now??? Are our memories that short?? 

Real wars are still not fought in the media--the wars are fought on the battle grounds. Heeeee Hawwwing here and there won't change facts on the ground.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518402696096755712

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## RoadAmerica

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> You are the troll because it is true.
> 
> It is on record even the US and Kiev have admitted it.
> 
> The weapons used by the militia were captured from blackmart and Ukrainian Forces themselves.
> 
> Today Russia supplied them with captured weaponries including Javelin and Stinger missiles.
> 
> So stop trolling and go home.
> 
> Ukraine is meanwhile considering retreating from Lugansk in view of the heavy artilleries shelling.


Still waiting for you to tell me where you’re from 🤔

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518405270552158211

It’s just a matter of time until the Russians are pushed out of Kherson

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## Meengla

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518371071774310400





CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *There is no way out of the crisis for Ukraine except to negotiate for a truce no matter how late it is.* Listening to the serpent and bald eagle will brings undesirable consequences.
> 
> The end results will be the same, no matter how many weapons the US and the West are preparing to send to Ukraine.
> 
> They will just ended up in blackmart and the rebels.
> 
> All these heroic tales by brave Ukrainians written by bloggers thousands of miles away are just meant to lift their low morale but Russia forces will grind them to broken pieces slowly but surely just they did to Nazi Germany and ISIS in Syria.
> 
> *Like it or not, Ukraine will ended up like the former Yugoslavia curved into many nations by the US and NATO.*
> 
> Soon Ukraine will lose complete access to the Black Sea.
> 
> Crimea and now Odessa will be lost forever.
> 
> I have no idea why the continue holdout in Azovstal Steelworks with their families by the Azov neo-nazi battalion. Nothing heroic about that.



Yes. In modern warfare, nations with ample supplies of lethal weapons and having a large cadre of cannon fodders have advantages. Russia has that. 

PS. Europeans are once again proving bloody damn barbarians and if this leads to World War 3--an outcome not unthinkable--then they are again proven the most savage people in the human history!! The 70-80 years of peace we have seen in Eurasia after WW2 was perhaps an interval in the bloody savagery history of Europe!! God-damned Tribal people!! *But please don't bring down the rest of the world with your tribalism!!*

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518405395315933185

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518406080090492931


----------



## The SC

Battle footage: Marines and DPR fighters under cover of fire from armored personnel carriers attack in the administration of Levoberezhny.







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518379761185218562


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518405270552158211
> 
> It’s just a matter of time until the Russians are pushed out of Kherson


I hope the it can happen before Victory Day on May 9


----------



## PakAlp

Meengla said:


> The minimal goal is also probably the maximal goal--and very much doable and strategic enough to declare some 'victory' by Putin: A Ukraine cut off from Black Sea and Russia having access from Transnistria to Donbas to Russia, while ensuring water to the Crimean Peninsula. All of such goals within reach of Russia. Remember that: Finland, too, gave a bloody nose to the Soviet Union just before WW 2 started but the Soviets eventually got more than what they initially wanted.
> 
> This war looks like a duplicate of that and no amount of social media noise could undo the gains on the ground. We should not forget that barely 6 months ago before this war started, all the trolls could not stop what the Afghan Talibans achieved toppling a supposedly mighty Afghan govt and even the boastful son of the Lion of Panjshir! Where is he now??? Are our memories that short??
> 
> Real wars are still not fought in the media--the wars are fought on the battle grounds. Heeeee Hawwwing here and there won't change facts on the ground.


Good point. The media propaganda is so powerful, the reason people believe Russia will loose or is doing badly is because Russia has not fought a war since the Afghan soviet war, so this is actually Russian first big war, their economy, technology, equipment has been in decline. 

Are the Russian casualties true. Its a huge number for 2 months of war
"A total of 21000 troops killed, 873 tanks are said to have been destroyed, along with 2238 armoured vehicles, 179 planes, 154 helicopters and 408 artillery systems"


----------



## WotTen

Beast said:


> NATO is an expansionist pact. Their aim is try to steal as much other land as possible. Its a colonial organization in disguise. Not much different from Imperial Japan or Nazi Germany. Russia is a fat meat. Good target to be invaded. Russia need to defend themselves against such evil organization.



Russians believe NATO's ultimate aim is to break Russia into three parts.









Dissolution of Russia - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org







Meengla said:


> *2003 illegal invasion of Iraq by the Americans*



US invaded and removed Saddam because he wanted to switch from USD to EUR for his oil sales.



https://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~norman/CurrentAffairs/DeeperNew.html


----------



## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518395398456590337


Aha that russo oil depot is 150 km from Ukraine. What happening?
A storm causes fire and the ammo explodes?

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## WotTen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518219351622664192
> 
> More proof of Russian war crimes



"There must be a Nuremberg 2 for Putin and all other Russian war criminals."

They can take a ticket and stand in line behind Dubya and Obomber.

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## thetutle

WotTen said:


> US invaded and removed Saddam because he wanted to switch from USD to EUR for his oil sales.
> 
> https://www.cse.usw.edu.au/~norman/CurrentAffairs/DeeperNew.html


Im sure it had nothing to do with the fact he invaded 2 sovereign countries, killed a million people and had no intention of ever finding another job,



Viet said:


> Aha that russo oil depot is 150 km from Ukraine. What happening?
> A storm causes fire and the ammo explodes?


this is very normal. these kinds of things happen all the time. storms and rain usually cause fires. rain especially, and fires blow things up.


----------



## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518405395315933185
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518406080090492931


How many Nazi stories are made per day? By this pace that will fill bookshelf Putin can publish and sell it on Amazon.

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## WotTen

thetutle said:


> Im sure it had nothing to do with the fact he invaded 2 sovereign countries, killed a million people and had no intention of ever finding another job,



That was the first war and, even then, there is debate that the US encouraged him (wink and a nod) to attack Kuwait and then attacked him.

The switch to Euro was the real reason for the second war where the official story was the weapons of mass delusion.


----------



## thetutle

Viet said:


> How many Nazi stories are made per day? By this pace that will fill bookshelf Putin can publish and sell it on Amazon.


This anti nazi rhetoric will soon have Palestinians marking holocaust Memorial Day in every Palestinian school and Palestinians will soon give up their right to have their land because of their past collaboration with hitler.

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518202826320756736



Thanks for making it clear why Russia have been loosing so many fighter jets since the beginning of this " special operation ".

Only dunb bombs in your picture.







~


----------



## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518438659242004480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518443711969087489

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## RescueRanger

Original article can be found here for free:






The awful truth is dawning: Putin may win in Ukraine. The result would be catastrophe | Ukraine | The Guardian


A Russian victory would herald a new age of instability, economic fragmentation, hunger for millions and social unrest




amp.theguardian.com

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## RescueRanger

Severodonetsk is HOT right now - expect a large scale offensive in the region within the next few days.

Russians moved two BTG to the region. Earlier reported that Russian bombers carried out sorties flanked by interceptors. 

Russians have adopted their use of attack helicopters using “pitch high” attack - which further highlights the effectiveness of the anti air capability of the Ukrainians.

More on this developing tactic here:









Russian Attack Helicopters Are Now Wildly Lobbing Rockets Over Ukraine (Updated)


While this tactic is likely forced upon Russian helicopters by Ukrainian air defenses, the military value of it is questionable, to say the least.




www.thedrive.com

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## WotTen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> War is brutal. This below Telegraph channel is showing dead Ukrainian forces and their equipment destroyed in Kremennaya.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518342314447577088
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511498261026201603



As much as many people here don't like NATO, the Ukrainians are just caught in the middle defending their homes. I feel bad for them.

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## CAPRICORN-88

CAPRICORN-88 said:


>


Silenced by the US for speaking out based on an alternative truth like many.

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518438659242004480
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518443711969087489


This will drive Putin mad. Better they protect this embassy with air defence like Iron dome


----------



## WotTen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518438659242004480



Good news: You got appointed as ambassador.
Bad news: Your office is in the middle of a war zone.

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## gambit

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> War is brutal. This below Telegraph channel is showing dead Ukrainian forces and their equipment destroyed in Kremennaya.


But not dead Russians?


----------



## DF41

Soldier35 said:


> A powerful blow from the Russian UR-77 in Ukraine. The Russian military, in the battles in Ukraine, began to use installations for demining, for strikes against the enemy. The UR-77 "Meteorite" mine-clearing installation, also known as the "Snake Gorynych", was created on the basis of the 2S1 Gvozdika self-propelled howitzer and is designed to make moves in anti-tank minefields during the battle. The UR-77 "Meteorite" installation, with the help of rockets, fires powder charges placed in hoses at a distance of about 500 meters. After that, the car drives back, the hose with the charge is stretched and it is activated. One of the episodes of the combat use of the UR-77 in Ukraine was caught on video


----------



## Wergeland

Meengla said:


> Yes. In modern warfare, nations with ample supplies of lethal weapons and having a large cadre of cannon fodders have advantages. Russia has that.
> 
> PS. Europeans are once again proving bloody damn barbarians and if this leads to World War 3--an outcome not unthinkable--then they are again proven the most savage people in the human history!! The 70-80 years of peace we have seen in Eurasia after WW2 was perhaps an interval in the bloody savagery history of Europe!! God-damned Tribal people!! *But please don't bring down the rest of the world with your tribalism!!*



It is America who is the main enforcer of the great European peace since WW2. Without American involvment Europeans would be at eachothers throat again.

By God i hope America never becomes isolationists and remove themselves from Europe. It would be a disaster for Europe.

Thats why i am huge fan of NATO. Without it Europe would be a nationalistic hellhole.

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## RescueRanger

Wood said:


> This will drive Putin mad. Better they protect this embassy with air defence like Iron dome


I can just picture that Hitler bunker meme regarding this. 



DF41 said:


> View attachment 837760








"Babushka Z" also that statue in the background is symbolic - it's called "Motherland Calls".

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## RescueRanger

All hail the mighty Bata flipflop/sandal:

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## That Guy

Seems the Ukrainians are making more pushes into Kherson. May 9th my not end the way Putin wants it to.

Plus Putin's decision to not take Azovstal has put Russia's hold on Mariupol in jeopardy. Sure it would have caused massive casualties on the Russians, but by not taking it, this may not end well for Russia.

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## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518526469772824578


----------



## RescueRanger

*Starstreak - coming to Ukraine soon. Russia better lock up her air assets! *

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## Primus

That Guy said:


> Seems the Ukrainians are making more pushes into Kherson. May 9th my not end the way Putin wants it to.
> 
> Plus Putin's decision to not take Azovstal has put Russia's hold on Mariupol in jeopardy. Sure it would have caused massive casualties on the Russians, but by not taking it, this may not end well for Russia.


Not really. The Ukrainians held up in Azovstal dont have enough firepower and manpower to retake mariupol or put it in jeopardy. The Russians have effectively sealed it off from the rest of the city. 


As for Kherson im hearing A LOT of conflicting reports. I have no clue who tf winning over there. 

Also what happened to the second assault of Kyiv that the US said was definitely going to happen in the second stage of the operation (few days before the second stage begun)?

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## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518343025369432070



LMAO,when kadyrov tiktok battalions are discovering the real face of war it isn't going very well it seems.

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## Primus

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 837786
> 
> *Starstreak - coming to Ukraine soon. Russia better lock up her air assets! *


I need that to shoot down some wood pigeons in my area.

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## Bengal71

SalarHaqq said:


> Post-Soviet Russia hasn't intervened militarily other than against neighbors ruled by strictly anti-Russian regimes which engaged in open collaboration with NATO and served as hubs for subversive activity and security threats against Moscow. Consequently, Kazakhstan and the like have had nothing to fear.
> 
> Russia and the USA are like apples and oranges in this regard. Whilst Russia is defining its foreign policy in strictly classical terms of national security, and is therefore not envisaging military options beyond its immediate neighborhood as well as in defence of a handful of close strategic allies, the US regime has proclaimed itself as the exclusive global policeman and hegemon.
> 
> More importantly, the ideological foundations of "America"'s imperialist expansionism are of an active messianist nature, a masonic, secularized form of Kabbalist and Christian zionist messianism. And this makes it immensely more dangerous to world peace and security as well as to mankind than Russia will ever be. Because megalomaniac rulers driven by an active messianist ideology will be tempted to pull the trigger on everyone as soon as things start turning out differently than what they imagined.
> 
> 
> 
> Hereby you are indirectly highlighting why the US regime is immeasurably more dangerous to international security than Russia. Because it illegally attributes itself the "right" to topple governments under bogus pretexts such as "spreading democracy" and "removing dictators".
> 
> Bogus since:
> 
> 1) For centuries, the US regime itself has been sponsoring and protecting the worst types of autocrats and dictators. Contemporary examples include Saudi Arabia and many others. Washington's double standards and hypocrisy in this regard are beyond nauseating. I doubt that in 2022 people can still be led down the garden path by the US regime's appalling and outright disgusting two-facedness on the subject.
> 
> 2) The US regime consciously lied to the UN, lied to its public, lied to the world by concocting fake "evidence" and trumped-up charges to try and justify its illegal 2003 invasion of Iraq. From the standpoint of international regulations, it was therefore an unlawful and criminal act. Defence Secretary Rumsfeld had a covert special office set up to this effect, and worthless "informants" such as the one codenamed "Curveball" were cited to falsely incriminate the Iraqi government. In the UK the 2016 Chilcot report concluded that then Prime Minister Blair had distorted the data he was privy to on the Iraq WMD dossier (Baghdad had dismantled its stockpiles during the 1990's), former UN Secretary General Kofi Annan declared that the war on Iraq was illegal, former US Secretary of State Colin Powell came to regret the presentation he made at the Security Council brandishing a fake anthrax vial, former UN chief weapons inspector Hans Blix expressed anger over how the regimes in Washington and London handled information in the run up to the war.
> 
> Chilcot report: Blair didn't tell truth about WMDs, the deal with Bush or the warnings of fallout​https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ss-destruction-evidence-verdict-a7122361.html
> 
> Kofi Annan says Iraq war was illegal​https://www.irishtimes.com/news/kofi-annan-says-iraq-war-was-illegal-1.990279
> 
> Blix Speaks of Personal Anger over Iraq​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blix Speaks of Personal Anger over Iraq | DW | 18.02.2004
> 
> 
> Former UN chief weapons inspector Hans Blix again criticized the way U.S. and U.K leaders handled information in the run-up to the Iraq war. He also warned leaders to remain wary of North Korea during his lecture tour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dw.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The event Colin Powell long regretted​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The event Colin Powell long regretted | CNN
> 
> 
> As a hero of the first Gulf War, Colin Powell was widely viewed as a trusted figure when the Bush administration sought to make the case for war against Iraq, writes Peter Bergen. So President George W. Bush turned to Powell to present the anti-iraq case at the United Nations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edition.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3) Illegal invasions by the USA (e.g. Iraq in 2003) are not aimed at replacing a dictatorship with democracy at all. Their goal is to obliterate and dismantle nation-states, shatter their social fabric and infrastructures for generations to come, in conformity with the Ralph Peters and Arthur Cebrowsky strategy as well as with the Bernard Lewis and Oded Yinon masterplans for West Asia. Basing themselves on the work of authors such as Natan Sharansky and the philosopher Leo Strauss, US neoconservatives devised a policy of plunging nations into what they openly refer to as "constructive chaos" i.e. the deliberate provocation of instability and enduring calamity for the populations of targeted countries. Foreign policy wise, both neoconservatives and liberal hawks seek to impose US hegemony on the world, through equally repressive and abject means.
> 
> 4) Liberal secular "democracies" of the west are in fact the single most totalitarian political systems in existence, as conceptualized by political philosopher Sheldon Wolin. They rely on social engineering to impose a pre-defined outcome in all things political and to de facto enslave their citizenry while at the same time projecting an illusion of freedom and pluralism. This is a particularly under-handed and perfidious form of suffocating dissent. However, this system is slowly nearing its end, as the naked coercive brutality of liberal so-called "democracies" is slowly but surely starting to spill over from foreign theaters of military aggression to their own home turf. Case in point, the unprecedented censorship practiced by western regimes and their affiliated capitalist corporations with regards to the current NATO-provoked war in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> Iran lost about 280.000 (not a million) of her citizens as a result of the 1980-1988 Imposed War.
> 
> Plus, it was chiefly the criminal US regime which propped up Saddam and encouraged the dictator to invade Iran. It was the US and US-allied NATO member states which were at the forefront of backing Saddam's Iraq in its aggression against Iran.
> 
> Including by supplying him with all he needed to manufacture and employ *WMD* against both Iranian military and civilians, and moreover preventing the UN Security Council from sanctioning Iraq for its use of chemical weapons. Indeed, in its unlimited cynicism the US regime went as far as resorting to its veto power against a UNSC draft resolution designed to condemn Iraqi WMD use versus Iran.
> 
> Some instructive papers:
> 
> *Arming Iraq: A Chronology of U.S. Involvement*
> By: John King, March 2003
> https://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/arming_iraq.php
> 
> *The Iran-Iraq War: Serving American Interests*
> By: The Research Unit for Political Economy (R.U.P.E.), Mumbai (Bombay), India
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran Chamber Society: History of Iran: The Iran-Iraq War: Serving American Interests
> 
> 
> Iranian Historical & Cultural Information Center
> 
> 
> 
> www.iranchamber.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The US regime is truly the very last entity on earth to be entitled to invoke Saddam's crimes in order to justify an invasion of Iraq, invasion which directly and indirectly caused the deaths of *1,5 million Iraqis *as per a report by The Lancet, a respected British medical journal.
> 
> This is without mentioning *half a million Iraqi children *killed as a result of the US-imposed embargo in the 1990's. With former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright publicly declaring on CNN that this mind-boggling toll was "worth it". Not in a century could Saddam, for all his barbarity, have come even remotely close to the havoc wrecked upon the Iraqi people by the regime in Washington.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let’s remember Madeleine Albright for who she really was
> 
> 
> The late US diplomat, who thought the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children were ‘worth it’, was no ‘force for human rights’.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The whole world minus a few NATO sympathizers will jump up and down of joy when the US regime leaders and oligarchy are gotten rid of.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither do you invoke false pretexts to launch illegal invasions of sovereign nations like the US regime did against Iraq in 2003. Those responsible for such actions are war criminals and should stand trial. Regimes that conduct such policies must be stopped and pushed back for the sake of peace, security and the general well being of mankind.
> 
> 
> 
> The list of crimes committed by the US regime at the global scale is so extensive and virtually endless, that the fate which will befall that regime and its dominant oligarchy is going to make the earth tremble.
> 
> 
> 
> The notion that Kennedy was eliminated by anyone other than the US regime's own deep state is frankly far-fetched.
> 
> 
> 
> The US has no business deciding what regime has to end and what regime is allowed to keep exercising power.
> 
> 
> 
> Liberal so-called "democracy" will be flushed out first. The zio-American empire has entered its historic phase of decline, it's on a downward spiral and its totalitarian messianic dream of world domination has already been lobbed into the trash can of history, in no small part thanks to that empire's own boundless hubris. It's going to go down as one of the most short lived and arrogant empires of all time.
> 
> 
> 
> Someone will get rid of the US regime for being the most intensive violator of international norms and elementary human decency, its very inception being grounded in the genocide of the native population of northern "America".
> 
> 
> 
> The US-imposed order enslaved many more.
> 
> _____
> 
> 
> 
> Local pseudo-nazis are NATO's main proxies. So denazification in Ukraine equals kicking out NATO goons.
> 
> 
> 
> Consequence of the Kiev regime oppressing Russian communities in Ukraine and posing a security threat through its enthusiastic participation in NATO's destabilization plans against Russia.
> 
> _____
> 
> 
> 
> The US regime is the biggest and most systematic war criminal on this planet. It will be held to account. Soon enough.





Thank you for this elaborate debunking.

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## WotTen

SalarHaqq said:


> the US regime has proclaimed itself as the exclusive global policeman and hegemon.



Overthrow: 100 Years of U.S. Meddling & Regime Change, from Iran to Nicaragua to Hawaii to Cuba​

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## thetutle

Wergeland said:


> It is America who is the main enforcer of the great European peace since WW2. Without American involvment Europeans would be at eachothers throat again.
> 
> By God i hope America never becomes isolationists and remove themselves from Europe. It would be a disaster for Europe.
> 
> Thats why i am huge fan of NATO. Without it Europe would be a nationalistic hellhole.


Or most of it would be a Russian province.


----------



## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518312746030354434


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518504125926936578


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518540895058120704

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518560281735184384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518557928793559041

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518557483916275714

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## Bengal71

WotTen said:


> "There must be a Nuremberg 2 for Putin and all other Russian war criminals."
> 
> They can take a ticket and stand in line behind Dubya and Obomber.



What about the Nuremberg for Bush and Blair and all the bastard troops of US and allies?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518536958884159488

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## Menthol

thetutle said:


> He was chosen by the Ukranian people. And he is fighting for both Ukraine and this whole western world. And it’s a disgrace the west does not send troops and more strategic weapons. Because if he loses then western civilians will start getting killed next.



No one wants to kill the West.

But the West wants to kill as many as possible.

The West is actually creating the enemy by themselves, in the name of sport.

For now, it's fun, because the people of the West don't feel anything, just the so-called "enemy" who feels it.



thetutle said:


> It might be a puzzle to you, but most here consider the perks on that started the war the one who invaded a sovereign country. And it will end when the occupier leaves.



It's hard to say who is the occupier as well, which one.

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## Ich

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518536958884159488



Great! They really do the triangle!

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## thetutle

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 837762
> 
> 
> "Babushka Z" also that statue in the background is symbolic - it's called "Motherland Calls".


Whats sickening propaganda. To glorify a murderous red army soldier. Who raped and pillaged half of europe. The same read army was formed by a certain group of people and out of 20 of those top people, 15 of them would qualify for Israeli citizenship.


----------



## RescueRanger

thetutle said:


> Whats sickening propaganda. To glorify a murderous red army soldier. Who raped and pillaged half of europe. The same read army was formed by a certain group of people and out of 20 of those top people, 15 of them would qualify for Israeli citizenship.


Propaganda works both ways.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518276919095087105
Incendiary munition...

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## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> Thanks for making it clear why Russia have been loosing so many fighter jets since the beginning of this " special operation ".
> 
> Only dunb bombs in your picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


Russia can't decide to do a ww2 style bombing or 21 century style.
Will they decide what sort of bombing they want there is no way around their loss


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518491421212295168


----------



## Broccoli

Hack-Hook said:


> Russia can't decide to do a ww2 style bombing or 21 century style.
> Will they decide what sort of bombing they want there is no way around their loss



Russians dont have enough guided munitions so they attack with unguided weapons what isn't best way as most of those bombs hit nothing. 

F-16 with four 250kg Paweways can take out for targets while Su-30 with 10 unguided bombs hit maybe one stationary target.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518540245897199616

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518568662529155075


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518494176924643328

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518540895058120704




I see no crash. When a plane crashes, it hits on the ground and then burns. Your video doesn't show that. But of course to keep the propaganda going, you could just post random videos and claim anything.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518494176924643328




Normal accident is what it looks like......but it looks like some are grasping at straws by claiming anything.


Now, how about this 👇 NATO weapons ending up in the hands of DNR and LPR are endless.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518563213973020674

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518540643513032704

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518542194646388738

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518542418450202624

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518486075395686400


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518495352458194945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518532257232916480

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## Primus

RescueRanger said:


> Propaganda works both ways.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518276919095087105
> Incendiary munition...


Pretty sparkles

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I see no crash. When a plane crashes, it hits on the ground and then burns. Your video doesn't show that. But of course to keep the propaganda going, you could just post random videos and claim anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Normal accident is what it looks like......but it looks like some are grasping at straws by claiming anything.
> 
> 
> Now, how about this 👇 NATO weapons ending up in the hands of DNR and LPR are endless.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518563213973020674



LMAO


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518576613063069699

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518574717975904257

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518575651216924673


----------



## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I see no crash. When a plane crashes, it hits on the ground and then burns. Your video doesn't show that. But of course to keep the propaganda going, you could just post random videos and claim anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Normal accident is what it looks like......but it looks like some are grasping at straws by claiming anything.
> 
> 
> Now, how about this 👇 NATO weapons ending up in the hands of DNR and LPR are endless.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518563213973020674



"Endless" ----> shows three rocket launchers 

On the other hand the number of captured equipments from Russians is so astonishing that the largest supplier of weapons to Ukraine is actually Russia.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> LMAO
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518576613063069699




That looks like a helicopter. How do we know it didn't belong to Ukrainians? It could be an old photo as well.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518560611537498112

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> "Endless" ----> shows three rocket launchers
> 
> On the other hand the number of captured equipments from Russians is so astonishing that the largest supplier of weapons to Ukraine is actually Russia.



Stop making making shit up. The endless Western arms finding themselves to DNR and LPR have been documented on daily bases. Besides, this map shows the Russian army and pro-Russian forces are making a steady gain on daily basis. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518575651216924673

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518542619093217281

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Stop making making shit up. The endless Western arms finding themselves to DNR and LPR have been documented on daily bases. Besides, this map shows the Russian army and pro-Russian forces are making a steady gain on daily basis.



"Endless" ----> shows three rocket launchers 

BTW your Russian dadies are so low IQs and so drunk that in some of the picutres posted the NLAW and AT4 were already used and empty


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518519108811345921

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517799888976846849
This is part of the ghanima or trophies captured by Russian army. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518576828654440451

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518558241877336064


----------



## Foinikas

Viet said:


> later to Serbia, Ukraine. Why don’t you establish a China fan club and invite Putin? What stopping you?


Serbia will not join NATO. They have been bombed by NATO and they are also very pro-Russian as a people.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518380607855902721
@sammuel, is this part of an Israeli effort to assist their brother Zelensky?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518323182549483521
Ah, these 3 countries were quick to join the war against Russia and Belarus, but suddenly they remembered they need the Russian and Belarusian weat and salt. hahaha

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## Primus

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> That looks like a helicopter. How do we know it didn't belong to Ukrainians? It could be an old photo as well.


Its a RuAF Su34 in a flat spin. Not a heli. Not UKR


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518580619655073793

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518586813216141312


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518548442250989570

The T-90 is really a radical development of the T-72, but the T-90M is an evolution of the original T-90 and has advanced and modern sensors and devices.. Its first appearance was only in 2017, and the Russian forces received their first batch in 2019.


----------



## Primus

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518548442250989570
> 
> The T-90 is really a radical development of the T-72, but the T-90M is an evolution of the original T-90 and has advanced and modern sensors and devices.. Its first appearance was only in 2017, and the Russian forces received their first batch in 2019.
> 
> View attachment 837849


T90 is not a further development of thw t72. Thats a myth


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518587217043726336

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## The SC

Huffal said:


> T90 is not a further development of thw t72. Thats a myth


The tank project was a development of the T-72B, its proposed name was T-72BU, but after the poor performance of the T-72 tanks in the Gulf War in 1990, it was decided to change its name to the T-90


----------



## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> LMAO
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518576613063069699


oh come on. Thats not a crash. Thats a "limited control spin landing" at maximum speed on a random patch of earth.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518598638116786179

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## Primus

The SC said:


> The tank project was a development of the T-72B, its proposed name was T-72BU, but after the poor performance of the T-72 tanks in the Gulf War in 1990, it was decided to change its name to the T-90

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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Stop making making shit up. The endless Western arms finding themselves to DNR and LPR have been documented on daily bases. Besides, this map shows the Russian army and pro-Russian forces are making a steady gain on daily basis.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518575651216924673


So why is russia complaining about it. Dont they want free weapons?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518533412306444288

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518380607855902721
> @sammuel, is this part of an Israeli effort to assist their brother Zelensky?


Would you prefer that they be in Gaza or West Bank?


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518323182549483521
> Ah, these 3 countries were quick to join the war against Russia and Belarus, but suddenly they remembered they need the Russian and Belarusian weat and salt. hahaha


Yes there is no salt in the EU.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518547313270345728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518290213356802048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518575266427113473

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518585702967087104

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518360913123766272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518072349958021120

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518523955920973826


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> "Endless" ----> shows three rocket launchers
> 
> BTW your Russian dadies are so low IQs and so drunk that in some of the picutres posted the NLAW and AT4 were already used and empty



"Your Russian daddies"

Once you start throwing insults, you know you're in a shaky and uncomfortable ground......

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518592781010321410

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518604745476349953

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518599583919755264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518504125926936578

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518599939424718850

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518568813620510720


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518596086641963008


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518565250798440448


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518586504737705986

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518603813002919937

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518605152441311232


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518587585664274432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518581627961679874

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518530517964107776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518496657062649856

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## Stryker1982

Wood said:


> Don't count on it. Tucker has a full hard-on for Putin. Trump will get re-elected in 2024 and Republicans will switch sides immediately!


Stop watching CNN.

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## The SC

Putin: We have all the capabilities to reduce the effects of Western sanctions on us

Putin: Russia's economy has all the capabilities to operate independently and without any disruption

@AJABreaking

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518620996642738178


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518598904421490689

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jamahir

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518290213356802048



I have always liked the simple-worded straightforward speeches of Putin. In contrast here is Dear Leader Modi of my India being "philosophical" and spelling STRENGTH. The dictionary in India has changed for him :








Modi Spells Strength as 'STREANH' 😂😂 | Mind-blowing !! 😂😂🤣🤣😱😱🙊🙊🙈 PM Narendra Modi spells 'Strength' as 'S T R E A N H' in front of Chinese delegation. May be that's how they do in "Entire... | By Gaurav Pandhi | Facebook


526K views, 1.9K likes, 29 loves, 2.4K comments, 10K shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Gaurav Pandhi: Mind-blowing !! 😂😂🤣🤣😱😱🙊🙊🙈 PM Narendra Modi spells 'Strength' as 'S T R E A N H' in front of...




www.facebook.com





Here's Modi ji and the teleprompter :


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518606138043879425

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518610732652314627

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518625162362507264


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518551205621948417

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518549671857295360


----------



## jamahir

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518606138043879425



@Apollon, now will you reject the NATO lies about Russians raping Ukrainian civilian females ?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518622792962523137

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Viet

The SC said:


> Putin: We have all the capabilities to reduce the effects of Western sanctions on us
> 
> Putin: Russia's economy has all the capabilities to operate independently and without any disruption
> 
> @AJABreaking


Russia Gdp will shrink by between 10 and 20 percent the worst contraction on record. Probably worse than when USSR collapsed. The next years and decades look dark for Russia. Almost all foreign companies and foreigners have left Russia or plan to do. Russians can’t go anywhere. Russian aircraft, ships banned. 30y hard working lands in the trash bin. I would not say like Putin, everything goes very well according to plan.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518631030151946242

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518633282816167938


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518637784592003075

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518587456848896000


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518626320644816898


----------



## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## Viet

Rheinmetall offers Ukraine delivery of 88 Leopard 1A5. Pending on German gov approval.









Ukraine-Krieg: Nach Polen – Gazprom dreht nächstem Land den Hahn zu


Ukraine-Krieg: Alle neuen Entwicklungen hier im News-Blog




www.derwesten.de










Ein Panzer vom Typ Leopard 1A5
Quelle: picture alliance / photothek

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518608180670091264

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## thetutle

Very thoughtful and clever guy. Cant believe he's still alive. He's originally Ukrainian. This is to be expected. his dad is jewish. And Russian jews could not actually live in Russia proper until 1918 or so. They all lived in what is now Ukraine and Poland and Belarus. 

Yeah, no jews allowed into russia until 1918. Interesting.

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## jamal18

An excellent analysis of Russia's plan B and the future of the war. 20 minutes, worth watching.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518638866437185537

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## Soldier35

A video of the Ukrainian control ship "Donbass" sunk in the port of Mariupol has been published. The former Soviet repair ship PM-9, converted into a command ship of the Ukrainian Navy project 304, was built in Poland in 1969 as a Floating workshop and passed a glorious path in the ranks of the Soviet Navy. The ship's misadventures began after the partition of the Black Sea Fleet of the USSR, when the PM-9 was transferred to the Fleet of Ukraine and renamed Krasnodon, and then in 2001 to Donbass. The ship "Donbass" ended its journey in the port of Mariupol, having burned down and sunk during the battles for the city

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518635763566583808

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518634688629424128

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## Primus

Viet said:


> Rheinmetall offers Ukraine delivery of 88 Leopard 1A5. Pending on German gov approval.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine-Krieg: Nach Polen – Gazprom dreht nächstem Land den Hahn zu
> 
> 
> Ukraine-Krieg: Alle neuen Entwicklungen hier im News-Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.derwesten.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ein Panzer vom Typ Leopard 1A5
> Quelle: picture alliance / photothek


That isnt a leo 1a5

Thats a leo 2a4


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

MajesticPug said:


> Moderators should ban this dude. If Ukrainians are deploying captured Russian tanks in large quantities, how come the Actor president cries for weapon aids in tanks?



Don't worry bro, we played his and others' game and they've been checkmated. Their propaganda is not gonna fly here. lol

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## jamal18

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518610732652314627


Explosion in Transnistria, explosions at oil plants in Russia. If this continues, it's Western special forces widening the war.

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## F-22Raptor

MajesticPug said:


> Moderators should ban this dude. If Ukrainians are deploying captured Russian tanks in large quantities, how come the Actor president cries for weapon aids in tanks?




The Pentagon already announced the Ukrainians have achieved tank parity with the Russians.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Don't worry bro, we played his and others' game and they've been checkmated. Their propaganda is not gonna fly here. lol



See above

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518626320644816898


----------



## thetutle

jamal18 said:


> An excellent analysis of Russia's plan B and the future of the war. 20 minutes, worth watching.


This "analyst" calls US arms sent to Ukraine "junk". Javelins are junk! Drones are junk! Artillery that can hit a tank form 40km away is junk! What a clown.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518646778568003588
2 ATGM strikes on Russian armor

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518644776786178049

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518581767963357184

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## PakAlp

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Don't worry bro, we played his and others' game and they've been checkmated. Their propaganda is not gonna fly here. lol


In your opinion is it true on the deaths of 21000 troops, 873 tanks are said to have been destroyed, along with 2238 armoured vehicles, 179 planes, 154 helicopters and 408 artillery systems.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## The SC

Al-Jazeera team reaches the second line of defense of the Ukrainian forces in Kharkiv
(it's almost comic!)


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518611577548771333


PakAlp said:


> In your opinion is it true on the deaths of 21000 troops, 873 tanks are said to have been destroyed, along with 2238 armoured vehicles, 179 planes, 154 helicopters and 408 artillery systems.




From which side?

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## PakFactor

The SC said:


> Al-Jazeera team reaches the second line of defense of the Ukrainian forces in Kharkiv
> (it's almost comic!)



Can you explain comic is what way, if you can translate roughly.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518622302417698818


----------



## SQ8

One of the problems emerging for Ukraine will all this aid is the logistical and training nightmare for all the different types of equipment. If NaTo was a little smarter they would have tried to standardize on some pieces of equipment to help the Ukrainian military keep pace even after this conflict is over

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518654644544802818


----------



## jamal18

Captured Azov soldier in Mariupol giving report.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518652104822255616

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## The SC

PakFactor said:


> Can you explain comic is what way, if you can translate roughly.


Nothing really to explain.. These are the second lines of the UA army being shelled like that.. imagine what's happening on the first lines..

Almost comic! was about the reporters running forth and back, right and left..they must have had a rough time there..

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## jamal18

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518654644544802818


Why the Arabic writing?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518587903399669760


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518602750505984000


jamal18 said:


> Why the Arabic writing?


Most likely these systems were meant for an Arab country..but the war stopped the deliveries..and the Ukrainians are using them for themselves..


----------



## mmr

MajesticPug said:


> Moderators should ban this dude. If Ukrainians are deploying captured Russian tanks in large quantities, how come the Actor president cries for weapon aids in tanks?


cry harder ccp bot lol

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518640191652597760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518660344150990849

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518655362978795523


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518561137570181121

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## Vergennes

Russia is already struggling in the donbass and suffered such horrific casualties but some believe they'll take Odessa,Mikolayiv,Kharkiv,Zaporijia

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## Hassan Al-Somal

PakAlp said:


> In your opinion is it true on the deaths of 21000 troops, 873 tanks are said to have been destroyed, along with 2238 armoured vehicles, 179 planes, 154 helicopters and 408 artillery systems.




This is what the Russian Ministry of Defense last reported:

📊In total, 141 aircraft and 110 helicopters, 570 unmanned aerial vehicles, 265 anti-aircraft missile systems, 2,554 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 283 multiple launch rocket systems, 1,104 field artillery and mortars, as well as 2,380 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.



Vergennes said:


> Russia is already struggling in the donbass and suffered such horrific casualties but some believe they'll take Odessa,Mikolayiv,Kharkiv,Zaporijia





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518656254067060741

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518656363823603713

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518655356708208640

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518638567303659524

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## Wood

SQ8 said:


> One of the problems emerging for Ukraine will all this aid is the logistical and training nightmare for all the different types of equipment. If NaTo was a little smarter they would have tried to standardize on some pieces of equipment to help the Ukrainian military keep pace even after this conflict is over


If Ukrainian military survive this war, then they can train NATO troops on how to use NATO equipment from different countries within the alliance

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518640799914803200


----------



## gambit

MajesticPug said:


> Moderators should ban this dude. If Ukrainians are deploying captured Russian tanks in large quantities, how come the Actor president cries for weapon aids in tanks?


Maybe it should be *YOU* who should be banned just for asking this question. In every war, every commander want to outnumber and overwhelm the enemy regardless of what he has on hand. Numerical superiority gives tactical flexibility, especially if starting out in the inferior posture, which Ukraine was at the beginning of the war. But of course, as a 'sofa soldier', we should not expect anything intelligent from you.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518663173938814982

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## gambit

thetutle said:


> oh come on. Thats not a crash. Thats a "limited control spin landing" at maximum speed on a random patch of earth.


That is a 'special flying technique'. Just remember that everything must be 'special' from now on.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518598137996144642


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518654178222092293

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## Ali_Baba

Sweden and Finland 'agree to both apply for NATO membership in May'​








Sweden and Finland 'agree to both apply for NATO membership in May'


Finnish newspaper Iltalehti said the Swedish government expressed a wish to Finland to apply together in the week of May 22, which was confirmed to a Swedish tabloid by govt. sources




www.dailymail.co.uk













Sweden and Finland agree to submit Nato applications, say reports


Two countries could apply for membership simultaneously as soon as mid-May, according to reports




www.theguardian.com





So Russia's move "next" on what Russia can or cannot do in response to ... simultaneous applications!!!

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> Russia is already struggling in the donbass and suffered such horrific casualties but some believe they'll take Odessa,Mikolayiv,Kharkiv,Zaporijia




Russia has made minimal gains at best in the Donbass. They don’t have sufficient forces for a major offensive and siege. 

Their also on the verge of losing Kherson. Ukrainian forces are only 5 miles from the city.

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## Viet

Wood said:


> If Ukrainian military survive this war, then they can train NATO troops on how to use NATO equipment from different countries within the alliance


NATO has standard ammo. No problem.



Ali_Baba said:


> Sweden and Finland 'agree to both apply for NATO membership in May'​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sweden and Finland 'agree to both apply for NATO membership in May'
> 
> 
> Finnish newspaper Iltalehti said the Swedish government expressed a wish to Finland to apply together in the week of May 22, which was confirmed to a Swedish tabloid by govt. sources
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So Russia's move "next" on they can or cannot do ...


Very good
Both should join the pact in lightning speed before Putin can respond.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518631142924210176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518573295305637891


----------



## Viet

This 3-day-war is not going well for Vladimir Putin 
The US begins to believe Ukraine will win the war, Russia will never recover from the looses from human and material.

Source: General Staff of the Ukrainian Army

Losses on the Russian side since 02/24/2022:
Dead soldiers: 21,800
Tanks: 873
Armored Troop Carriers: 2,238
Artillery Systems: 408
MLRS/Rocket Artillery: 147
Anti-aircraft systems: 69
Aircraft: 179
Helicopters: 154
Vehicles: 1,557
boats: 8
Fuel tanker: 76
Drones: 191
Special equipment: 28
Short-range mobile missile systems: 4

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518610656890654725

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518670472686227463


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518684298458587138


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518692664937525252

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## F-22Raptor

500 new Ukrainian tanks have been sent to the fight.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518677525681033224

Russia's Foreign Minister: *The risks of nuclear war are "serious and real", but Moscow's position is to renounce such a war*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518680502605074433

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518685213458632706


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518700382205190149

Russian losses now exceed 3,200

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## jamal18

Vergennes said:


> Russia is already struggling in the donbass and suffered such horrific casualties but some believe they'll take Odessa,Mikolayiv,Kharkiv,Zaporijia


Ukraine is sending three Territorial brigades to the East.

Ukrainian casualties can't be that low.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518703587974651904
No s**t Sergei

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## jamal18

F-22Raptor said:


> 500 new Ukrainian tanks have been sent to the fight.


Source? Find it hard to believe.


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518703587974651904
> No s**t Sergei


Good that he realized it before the end of war


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518701957334065155


----------



## Ali_Baba

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518677525681033224



Good. Same guarantees would have been given to Finland as well…

There were always going to be guarantees as a bridge to Nato membership.


----------



## Foinikas

Viet said:


> This 3-day-war is not going well for Vladimir Putin
> The US begins to believe Ukraine will win the war, Russia will never recover from the looses from human and material.
> 
> *Source: **General** Staff of the Ukrainian Army*
> 
> Losses on the Russian side since 02/24/2022:
> Dead soldiers: 21,800
> Tanks: 873
> Armored Troop Carriers: 2,238
> Artillery Systems: 408
> MLRS/Rocket Artillery: 147
> Anti-aircraft systems: 69
> Aircraft: 179
> Helicopters: 154
> Vehicles: 1,557
> boats: 8
> Fuel tanker: 76
> Drones: 191
> Special equipment: 28
> Short-range mobile missile systems: 4


Sure bro.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518707769800544257


----------



## PakFactor

Wood said:


> Good that he realized it before the end of war



I'm here waiting for this stock market to tank so I can put money into it and retire for good (if we avoid a Nuke War, Lol) but this shit is on some weed staying afloat.

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## Paul2

That Guy said:


> Seems the Ukrainians are making more pushes into Kherson. May 9th my not end the way Putin wants it to.
> 
> Plus Putin's decision to not take Azovstal has put Russia's hold on Mariupol in jeopardy. Sure it would have caused massive casualties on the Russians, but by not taking it, this may not end well for Russia.



They were only attacking Russian perimeter in Kherson.

Same for Russians, all breakout attempts did not succeed.

The moment any side got advantage in the no mans land in between Mikolaiv, and Kherson enemy artillery comes, and shells them out. Both sides are afraid to get under each others MLRS fire

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## Wood

PakFactor said:


> I'm here waiting for this stock market to tank so I can put money into it and retire for good (if we avoid a Nuke War, Lol) but this shit is on some weed staying afloat.


Me too. I'm holding on to cash because av crash is not too unpredictable right now

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518637784592003075




What I noticed is that a lot of Russian armour loss is not from battle damage, but from desertion.

Crews soil pants at the first sound of enemy artillery landing nearby, abandon their armour, and then Ukrainian 122mm have target practice at already abandoned enemy armour.

Or it is Ukrainians setting on fire abandoned armour they got during ambushes because they cannot recover, or have no time to capture it.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518711220072812544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518710810960449543

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518676145994186753


----------



## F-22Raptor

*Russian forces conducted precision missile strikes against five Ukrainian railway stations in central and western Ukraine on April 25 in a likely effort to disrupt Ukrainian reinforcements to eastern Ukraine and Western aid shipments.* A series of likely coordinated Russian missile strikes conducted within an hour of one another early on April 25 hit critical transportation infrastructure in Vinnytsia, Poltava, Khmelnytskyi, Rivne, and Zhytomyr oblasts.[1] Russian forces seek to disrupt Ukrainian reinforcements and logistics. The Kremlin may have additionally conducted this series of strikes—an abnormal number of precision missile strikes for one day—to demonstrate Russia’s ability to hit targets in Western Ukraine and to disrupt western aid shipments after US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin and US Secretary of State Antony Blinken’s surprise visit to Kyiv over the weekend. However, Russian precision strike capabilities will remain limited and unlikely to decisively affect the course of the war; open-source research organization Bellingcat reported on April 24 that Russia has likely used 70% of its total stockpile of precision missiles to date.[2]

*Local Ukrainian counterattacks retook territory north of Kherson and west of Izyum in the past 24 hours. Russian forces continue to make little progress in scattered, small-scale attacks in eastern Ukraine. *Ukrainian forces are successfully halting Russian efforts to bypass Ukrainian defensive positions around Izyum, and Russian forces are struggling to complete even tactical encirclements. Local Ukrainian counterattacks in Kherson Oblast are unlikely to develop into a larger counteroffensive in the near term but are disrupting Russian efforts to completely capture Kherson Oblast and are likely acting as a drain on Russian combat power that could otherwise support Russia’s main effort in eastern Ukraine.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518716680083546113


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518669870073847809


----------



## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> What I noticed is that a lot of Russian armour loss is not from battle damage, but from desertion.
> 
> Crews soil pants at the first sound of enemy artillery landing nearby, abandon their armour, and then Ukrainian 122mm have target practice at already abandoned enemy armour.
> 
> Or it is Ukrainians setting on fire abandoned armour they got during ambushes because they cannot recover, or have no time to capture it.




ISW is reporting that Russia has used up to 70% of its PGM stock


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518723569366278145

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518644049971929089

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518665170167468038

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518700508994756609

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518644049971929089




According to former US President Donald J Trump, CNN is fake news. Nobody believes the nonsense they parrot in this useless and lying outlet.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518665170167468038
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518700508994756609


As I have constantly saying, all these arms delivered by the West will ended up in either the blackmart or the Militias of the breakaway Republics and now even the Chechen regimen of the Russian Forces is thanking the US and NATO. 

Right now Ukraine Forces is now facing shortage of ammo and other fighting equipment.

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## mmr

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518677525681033224
> 
> Russia's Foreign Minister: *The risks of nuclear war are "serious and real", but Moscow's position is to renounce such a war*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518680502605074433
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518685213458632706


lavrov dont have the balls to go after Nato

will only keep bitching about nuclear this and that for ever

did nato stop sending arms lol...its increasing daily.



CAPRICORN-88 said:


> As I have constantly saying, all these arms delivered by the West will ended up in either the blackmart or the Militias of the breakaway Republics and now even the Chechen regimen of the Russian Forces is thanking the US and NATO.
> 
> Right now Ukraine Forces is now facing shortage of ammo and other fighting equipment.


good joke

did winnie the poh told u that?


----------



## mmr

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518653268334989313

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518764499817353216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518764502837309442

Russia is struggling in the Donbass. Very little advancement

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## F-22Raptor

jamal18 said:


> Source? Find it hard to believe.




It’s a mix of Ukrainian stocks with freshly trained tank crews and Eastern European supplied tanks. 

The Pentagon said last week that Ukraine has achieved tank parity with Russia.

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## Shawnee

thetutle said:


> I am a slavic person, I identify with Russians. I understand these people if they speak slowly. I love and admire Russians. I listen to Russian songs, read Russian novels. Of course I want them to be free and prosperous. I don't want slavs to be considered barbarians of europe one again like in the Cold War.
> 
> What Russia is doing is heartbreaking. It will destroy russia.
> 
> Russians in Ukraine have all the rights they could ever have. this rest is lies.
> 
> Just today I was watching Serbian TV, I can post the link, they talk about serbs in urkine how they have lived there for years speaking only Russian. and noone would look at them in a bad way. This is Serbian TV debunking Russian lies.
> 
> what's your ethnicity?
> 
> 
> Yeah, the finns are about to get up off their knees and Stand up. Its been a long time coming.



Remember when you said you are Iranic originally.


----------



## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> According to former US President Donald J Trump, CNN is fake news. Nobody believes the nonsense they parrot in this useless and lying outlet.


Thump said today on Piers Morgan that he would threaten to nuke Putin.



Shawnee said:


> Remember when you said you are Iranic originally.


In so far as all europeans apparently came from the afghan-Iran area. I dont know if thats true. But a lot of afghans look very European. just a bit darker. Its just a theory I've read. I'm not an expert on where europeans come from originally.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

T-90M and RPG-30 make combat debut.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518548442250989570

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518563695990870018

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518631009683714048
Russian armed drones killing Ukrainian ground targets using laser and satellite guided munitions


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Paul2 said:


> They were only attacking Russian perimeter in Kherson.
> 
> Same for Russians, all breakout attempts did not succeed.
> 
> The moment any side got advantage in the no mans land in between Mikolaiv, and Kherson enemy artillery comes, and shells them out. Both sides are afraid to get under each others MLRS fire



Kherson is very heavily defended, plus it is a big city, plus it is very close to Crimea which means massive Russian military presence.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518360354409127939

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518328625564692481

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518557207150964737

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518510986650607616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518448516322017285

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518408851904675840


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518703811551920128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518437067260190722

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518433322053033985

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518434613009522689


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Better watch this before it gets censored and deleted like the rest of videos that try to relay the truth, the US did not like.






By simply alleging that it violates the term and condition of YT and decide for yourself.

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## mmr

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Better watch this before it gets censored and deleted like the rest of videos that try to relay the truth, the US did not like.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By simply alleging that it violates the term and condition of YT and decide for yourself.


scott ritter the child molester....like to **** small kids...seems ccp bots favourite....

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## thetutle

mmr said:


> scott ritter the child molester....like to **** small kids...seems ccp bots favourite....


Poor Scott Ritter, keeps trying to have sex with young girls on the internet but keeps running into cops. He quit his job as a UN weapons inspector in 1998 because the US was NOT getting tough on Saddam Hussein. 

Then after getting caught for child sex offences in 2001 stared to become Saddam's protector. 

Then in 2009 he needed more child sex so he tried online again. And again failed to get any sex but did succeed in spending time in jail for trying. 

This is the guy they rely on for analysis. Very sad.

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## Viet

That will be a big event.

The US invites the NATO and allies to a special meeting to Ukraine at Ramstein in Germany. 30 countries will participate. Top topic is weapons delivery to Ukraine army.
Ramstein is the biggest US airbase outside the United States.

















Nach Ramstein-Treffen: USA loben Deutschland als wichtigen Verbündeten


Auf der Air Base Ramstein ist das Spitzentreffen zum Ukraine-Krieg zu Ende gegangen. Die beteiligten Nationen wollen sich künftig regelmäßig treffen. Deutschland hat der Ukraine Flugabwehrpanzer zugesichert.




www.swr.de

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## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518703587974651904
> No s**t Sergei


Lavrov is a liar. He was asked numerous times however he denied. He lied to the world Russia would not attack Ukraine.
Ukraine has the every rights to defend. The UN, the international laws allow other countries to support Ukraine with every means to repel the attack. Those countries are not party to the war between Ukraine and Russia.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518644049971929089



Western propagandists would tell you Ukraine is winning but then Russians had seized this entire air base repair facility with all of those air defense equipment in it. How do they explain this massive loss? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518809831334948864

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## Oldman1

SalarHaqq said:


> _____
> 
> 
> 
> Local pseudo-nazis are NATO's main proxies. So denazification in Ukraine equals kicking out NATO goons.
> 
> 
> 
> Consequence of the Kiev regime oppressing Russian communities in Ukraine and posing a security threat through its enthusiastic participation in NATO's destabilization plans against Russia.
> 
> _____


Russian's have their own neo nazis. So should denazify themselves.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518665170167468038
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518700508994756609











Russia warns United States against sending more arms to Ukraine


Russia told the United States to stop sending more arms to Ukraine, warning that large Western deliveries of weapons were inflaming the conflict and would lead to more losses, Moscow's ambassador to Washington said.




www.reuters.com





If Russia likes having the weapons, why they telling U.S. to stop supplying them? 

Russia warns United States against sending more arms to Ukraine​
LONDON, April 25 (Reuters) - Russia told the United States to stop sending more arms to Ukraine, warning that large Western deliveries of weapons were inflaming the conflict and would lead to more losses, Moscow's ambassador to Washington said.

Russia's Feb. 24 invasion of Ukraine has killed thousands of people, displaced millions more and raised fears of a wider confrontation between Russia and the United States - by far the world's two biggest nuclear powers.


The United States has ruled out sending its own or NATO forces to Ukraine but Washington and its European allies have supplied weapons to Kyiv such as drones, Howitzer heavy artillery, anti-aircraft Stinger and anti-tank Javelin missiles.

Anatoly Antonov, Russia's ambassador to the United States, said such arms deliveries were aimed at weakening Russia but that they were escalating the conflict in Ukraine while undermining efforts to reach some sort of peace agreement.


"What the Americans are doing is pouring oil on the flames," Antonov told the Rossiya 24 TV channel. "I see only an attempt to raise the stakes, to aggravate the situation, to see more losses."

Antonov, who has served as ambassador to Washington since 2017, said an official diplomatic note had been sent to Washington expressing Russia's concerns. No reply had been given, Antonov said.

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## Viet

‘The race is on’: Britain moves to get heavy artillery to Ukraine​By Andrew Chuter
Apr 25, 09:54 PM





An AS90 self-propelled vehicle with a 155mm gun from Britain's 3rd Regiment Royal Horse Artillery is loaded onto the Longstone for deployment to the Arabian Gulf area from the Port of Emden, Germany, on Feb. 8, 2003. (Stuart Franklin/Getty Images)

LONDON — Britain’s defence secretary says allies must move quickly to supply Ukraine with heavy artillery capable of at least matching Russia.
“The race is on to equip Ukraine with the same long-range capability that Russia has so they are not outranged and indeed pinned down,” Ben Wallace told Parliamentarians April 25.

“The next three weeks are key,” he added. “Ukraine needs more long-range artillery and ammunition, and both Russian and NATO caliber types to accompany them. It also seeks anti-ship missiles to counter Russian ships that are able to bombard Ukrainian cities.”

Analysts, including the International Institute for Strategic Studies think tank here, have for some time acknowledged Russia has a distinct advantage in artillery capabilities.

Wallace denied weekend media reports claiming the government was sending British Army AS90 tracked 155mm howitzers, but did say consideration was being given to dispatching Army 105mm towed light guns to Ukraine.

Responding to questions from lawmakers, Wallace said the main artillery effort initially centered on procuring Russian equipment, but now has extended to highly mobile Western 155mm weapons.

“We first and foremost started with sourcing around the world 152mm Soviet caliber [weapons] so [Ukraine] can keep going with that and, in parallel, exploring with a number of other nations either 105mm, our main lightweight guns, and the 155mm in more mobile versions than the big armored AS90,” he said.

“One of the things this modern battlefield is showing is you had better move quickly once you have fired your guns because you can be found very quickly by pretty cheap off-the-shelf UAVs,” Wallace added.

Canada, France and the U.S. have all agreed recently to arm the Ukrainians with modern towed or truck-mounted howitzer artillery systems.

The Ukrainian defense ministry said Monday it was already receiving 155mm cannons from the U.S. and other partners, and the Financial Times reported the Ukrainians as saying the weapons would “fundamentally” change the course of the war.

Wallace’s howitzer remarks may have some impact at home, as the British are in the early stages of a competition to replace the aging AS90 in a program known as the Mobile Fires Platform.

The competition is likely to put tracked vehicles like Hanwha’s K9A2 , already purchased by Poland, against wheeled rivals like the Boxer 8x8 RCH 155mm weapon.

One industry executive here said an early lesson for the British from Ukraine is that it might be preferable to have a mixed wheeled and tracked fleet to cover a range of terrain and mobility requirements .

Aside from efforts to improve artillery firepower, Wallace detailed the extent of British military supplies to the Ukraine. Included in the list are 5361 NLAW anti-tank missiles — 1,000 delivered last week alone, 200 Javelin missiles, armored logistics vehicles, night vision goggles and anti-air missiles. The British said they had also sourced anti-ship weapons, anti-structure munitions and loitering munitions.

Wallace said the Treasury has agreed to foot the bill to replace weapons sent to the Ukraine, and rebuilding weapons stocks for the British military is already underway.









‘The race is on’: Britain moves to get heavy artillery to Ukraine


“The race is on to equip Ukraine with the same long-range capability that Russia has so they are not outranged and indeed pinned down,” Ben Wallace told Parliamentarians April 25.




www.defensenews.com

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## Oldman1

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518646778568003588
> 2 ATGM strikes on Russian armor


I count 4 since there is part 2.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518608180670091264


You know thats just BS staged.

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## Oldman1

SQ8 said:


> One of the problems emerging for Ukraine will all this aid is the logistical and training nightmare for all the different types of equipment. If NaTo was a little smarter they would have tried to standardize on some pieces of equipment to help the Ukrainian military keep pace even after this conflict is over


Good thing most of the artillery provided shares the 155 or the Russian version 152.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518620996642738178


I already pointed that out long time ago that its not possible just by looking at the map.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> That looks like a helicopter. How do we know it didn't belong to Ukrainians? It could be an old photo as well.


Planes can turn into helicopters.


----------



## That Guy

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518608180670091264


I looked into the details of this and it's very clearly staged.

This leads me to believe that the entire threat was faked, and is nothing more than propaganda from the Kremlin.



Huffal said:


> Not really. The Ukrainians held up in Azovstal dont have enough firepower and manpower to retake mariupol or put it in jeopardy. The Russians have effectively sealed it off from the rest of the city.
> 
> 
> As for Kherson im hearing A LOT of conflicting reports. I have no clue who tf winning over there.
> 
> Also what happened to the second assault of Kyiv that the US said was definitely going to happen in the second stage of the operation (few days before the second stage begun)?


Mariupol forces the Russians to either keep badly needed troops in Mariupol to blockade Ukrainian troops in Azovstal, which jeopardizes other fronts, OR they withdraw forces to reinforce other areas, allowing Ukrainian forces to breakthrough. Azovstal is HUGE, it is pretty much impossible to completely lock it down without tens of thousands of soldiers, which Russia needs badly to redeploy in other fronts.

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## PakFactor

That Guy said:


> *Mariupol forces the Russians to either keep badly needed troops to those Ukrainian troops which jeopardizes other fronts, OR they withdraw forces to reinforce other areas, allowing Ukrainian forces to breakthrough. Azovstal is HUGE, it is pretty much impossible to completely lock it down without tens of thousands of soldiers, which Russia needs badly to redeploy in other fronts.*


Agreed makes no sense keeping Russians troops bogged down in Azovstal. It’s troops your not moving to reinforce other positions, they should have a week ago scorched earth that place and not waste time on holed up people. I just don’t understand some of these Russian war planners and I think Putin is to involved trying to make this a little operation number and scale wise. Just dumb planning.

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## That Guy

Paul2 said:


> They were only attacking Russian perimeter in Kherson.
> 
> Same for Russians, all breakout attempts did not succeed.
> 
> The moment any side got advantage in the no mans land in between Mikolaiv, and Kherson enemy artillery comes, and shells them out. Both sides are afraid to get under each others MLRS fire


Kherson has been able to make some minor gains, as well as strike a vital Russia CC in Kherson. This is cumulating into a much larger offensive, which was gonna happen before, but Russia's donbass offensive forced Ukraine to halt their previous offensive.



PakFactor said:


> Agreed makes no sense keeping Russians troops bogged down in Azovstal. It’s troops your not moving to reinforce other positions, they should have a week ago scorched earth that planet and not waste time.


They can't. Azovstal was built to withstand a nuclear strike. Bunker busters have had little to no effect.

The only way to clear out Azovstal is to send in thousands of troops, and risk thousands of casualties. This is why Putin halted his offensive, he knows that Russia would lose too much to try and take Azovstal, so he's attempting a siege to starve them out.

[Edit] screw autocorrect!

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## PakFactor

That Guy said:


> Kherson has been able to make some minor gains, as well as strike a vital Russia CC in Kherson. This is cumulative into a much larger offensive, which was gonna happen before, but Russia's donbass offensive force Ukraine to halt their previous offensive.
> 
> 
> They can't. Azovstal was built to withstand a nuclear strike. Bunker busters have had little to no effect.
> 
> The only way to clear out Azovstal is to send in thousands of troops, and risk thousands of casualties. This is why Putin halted his offensive, he knows the Russia would lose too much to try and take Azovstal, so he's attempting a siege to starve them out.



Ah. Didn’t know about that part in regards to Azovstal. Thanks for info bro.

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## Muhammed45

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518646778568003588
> 2 ATGM strikes on Russian armor


@Shawnee @SalarHaqq @jamahir @Foinikas 
An other proof that Turkey is sending its bloved terrorists from Syria into Ukraine.

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## Oldman1

Muhammed45 said:


> @Shawnee @SalarHaqq @jamahir @Foinikas
> An other proof that Turkey is sending its bloved terrorists from Syria into Ukraine.


Say what?


----------



## That Guy

SQ8 said:


> One of the problems emerging for Ukraine will all this aid is the logistical and training nightmare for all the different types of equipment. If NaTo was a little smarter they would have tried to standardize on some pieces of equipment to help the Ukrainian military keep pace even after this conflict is over


So apparently they're attempting to standardize what Ukraine is getting. The UK anf US in particular have been training the Ukrainians on NATO standard systems, particularly artillery. The UK is also training the Ukrainians on other systems such as military vehicle that are built to NATO standard.

They initially went the Soviet equipment route because that's the thing Ukrainians were trained on and urgently needed, but for the medium to long term it seems that NATO allies are going to start slowly replacing Russian equipment with superior NATO equivalents and provide training for them.

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## jamahir

Muhammed45 said:


> @Shawnee @SalarHaqq @jamahir @Foinikas
> An other proof that Turkey is sending its bloved terrorists from Syria into Ukraine.



These are "gentlemanly" voluntary terrorists here to murder Russians after having murdered Syrians.

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## That Guy

Muhammed45 said:


> @Shawnee @SalarHaqq @jamahir @Foinikas
> An other proof that Turkey is sending its bloved terrorists from Syria into Ukraine.


You mean the Arabic on top? Apparently that equipment was already in Ukraine and was being made for some foreign Arab country, but when the Russians invaded, they started using them against the Russians instead.

That's how exports work, you build systems to customer specifications. If this was meant for Somalia, the system would use the Somali language. If it was meant for Greece, it would Greek. If it was meant for Iran, it would use Persian.

By the way, this isn't up for argument, this has already been confirmed, as similar systems meant for exports have been used since the beginning of the war.

Also, Russia has also been recruiting foreign fighters.

Once again, I find it very pathetic that non-whites (especially brown people) are so invested in this white war. This white worship is disgusting.

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## Oldman1

That Guy said:


> So apparently they're attempting to standardize what Ukraine is getting. The UK anf US in particular have been training the Ukrainians on NATO standard systems, particularly artillery. The UK is also training the Ukrainians on other systems such as military vehicle that are built to NATO standard.
> 
> They initially went the Soviet equipment route because that's the thing Ukrainians were trained on and urgently needed, but for the medium to long term it seems that NATO allies are going to start slowly replacing Russian equipment with superior NATO equivalents and provide training for them.


Hopefully they get long range missiles.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/ubnozi

@That Guy 








US State Department approves foreign military sale of $165 million worth of ammunition to Ukraine


US Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin met Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in Kyiv on Sunday, as heavy fighting continued around the country. Follow here for live news updates.




www.cnn.com





The US State Department approved a foreign military sale to Ukraine of $165 million worth of “non-standard ammunition” Monday, according to a release from the State Department. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of the sale on April 24, the release said.

The move was relayed to the Ukrainians during US Secretary of State Antony Blinken and US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin’s trip to Kyiv over the weekend.

A senior Defense Department official told reporters on Sunday that “it's the kind of ammunition that the Ukrainians still use because they had so many of their systems are ex-soviet.” 



> “The proposed sale will improve Ukraine’s capability to meet current and future threats by maintaining the operational readiness of its forces," according to the State Department press release.


The announced sale is just one of several ways the US is providing Ukraine with military assistance. On Thursday, US President Joe Biden authorized another $800 million of military assistance to support Ukraine using presidential drawdown funding. 

Ukraine has requested to buy “various rounds of non-standard ammunition” including, but not limited to, “152mm rounds for 2A36 Giatsint; 152mm rounds for D-20 cannons; VOG-17 for automatic grenade launcher AGS-17; 120mm mortar rounds (non-NATO); 122mm rounds for 2Sl Gvozdika; BM-21 GRAD Rockets; 300mm rounds/rockets for MLRS "Smerch;" VOG-25 grenades for under barrel grenade launcher GP-25; 82mm mortar rounds; 125mm HE ammunition for T-72; 152mm rounds for 2A65 Msta; transportation; and other related elements of logistical and program support,” the release said.

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## That Guy

Oldman1 said:


> Hopefully they get long range missiles.
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/ubnozi
> 
> @That Guy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US State Department approves foreign military sale of $165 million worth of ammunition to Ukraine
> 
> 
> US Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin met Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in Kyiv on Sunday, as heavy fighting continued around the country. Follow here for live news updates.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The US State Department approved a foreign military sale to Ukraine of $165 million worth of “non-standard ammunition” Monday, according to a release from the State Department. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of the sale on April 24, the release said.
> 
> The move was relayed to the Ukrainians during US Secretary of State Antony Blinken and US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin’s trip to Kyiv over the weekend.
> 
> A senior Defense Department official told reporters on Sunday that “it's the kind of ammunition that the Ukrainians still use because they had so many of their systems are ex-soviet.”
> 
> 
> The announced sale is just one of several ways the US is providing Ukraine with military assistance. On Thursday, US President Joe Biden authorized another $800 million of military assistance to support Ukraine using presidential drawdown funding.
> 
> Ukraine has requested to buy “various rounds of non-standard ammunition” including, but not limited to, “152mm rounds for 2A36 Giatsint; 152mm rounds for D-20 cannons; VOG-17 for automatic grenade launcher AGS-17; 120mm mortar rounds (non-NATO); 122mm rounds for 2Sl Gvozdika; BM-21 GRAD Rockets; 300mm rounds/rockets for MLRS "Smerch;" VOG-25 grenades for under barrel grenade launcher GP-25; 82mm mortar rounds; 125mm HE ammunition for T-72; 152mm rounds for 2A65 Msta; transportation; and other related elements of logistical and program support,” the release said.


I doubt that the Ukrainians will get long rang missiles. There's a clear limit to what NATO and the US are willing to provide, weapons threatening the Russian heartland is one of them.

Besides, long range missiles won't help much as the immediate fighting is within Ukraine itself.

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## Oldman1

That Guy said:


> I doubt that the Ukrainians will get long rang missiles. There's a clear limit to what NATO and the US are willing to provide, weapons threatening the Russian heartland is one of them.
> 
> Besides, long range missiles won't help much as the immediate fighting is within Ukraine itself.


Ukraine has already hit the Russian heartland. I don't see any nukes falling. Ukraine needs something like ATACMs from HIMARs or something similar. Long range missiles will definitely help because Ukraine is huge and there are many places where Ukrainians want to hit heavily defended places occupied by the Russians like supply depots and airbases, command and control, etc. That helps affect the frontlines because Russians can be affected by shortage of fuel and ammo.

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## mulj

That Guy said:


> You mean the Arabic on top? Apparently that equipment was already in Ukraine and was being made for some foreign Arab country, but when the Russians invaded, they started using them against the Russians instead.
> 
> That's how exports work, you build systems to customer specifications. If this was meant for Somalia, the system would use the Somali language. If it was meant for Greece, it would Greek. If it was meant for Iran, it would use Persian.
> 
> By the way, this isn't up for argument, this has already been confirmed, as similar systems meant for exports have been used since the beginning of the war.
> 
> Also, Russia has also been recruiting foreign fighters.
> 
> Once again, I find it very pathetic that non-whites (especially brown people) are so invested in this white war. This white worship is disgusting.


i was wondering if someone would reply on that idiotic statement about syrian mercenaries.

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## Viet

PakFactor said:


> Agreed makes no sense keeping Russians troops bogged down in Azovstal. It’s troops your not moving to reinforce other positions, they should have a week ago scorched earth that place and not waste time on holed up people. I just don’t understand some of these Russian war planners and I think Putin is to involved trying to make this a little operation number and scale wise. Just dumb planning.


The reason why Putin wants to take Mariupol is the same why Hitler wanted to take Stalingrad at all cost.
The southern ports are utmost strategic important, nearly all Ukraine wheat exports, natural resources as mangan lie there.
Hitler wanted to starve Soviet Union. Putin wants to starve Ukraine. And large parts of the world.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1517977940029583360





https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1518141417834663936





https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1518103644276678656





https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1517514270887583744



Russia has 150 million population with backing from 1.4 billion Chinese in China. Ukraine has less than 40 million people. Numbers game not looking good for Ukraine. It's basically Scotland vs England. And Zelensky needs to be a Robert the Bruce to pull this one off.


----------



## Oldman1

That Guy said:


> I doubt that the Ukrainians will get long rang missiles. There's a clear limit to what NATO and the US are willing to provide, weapons threatening the Russian heartland is one of them.
> 
> Besides, long range missiles won't help much as the immediate fighting is within Ukraine itself.


Just to give you an idea of how important such weapons could do. It could threaten supply depots in Crimea, even sink their naval fleet parked at Sevastopol. Even hit their bridge that brings in supplies and troops from that Crimea bridge. Also can hit Belgorod without having to risk sending in their pilots with helos. Of course the Ukrainians can use other means to hit Belgorod since its closer to the Ukrainian-Russian border. Also with long range missiles they can launch from safer distance as well. I mean just look at what Russia has been doing to hit Western Ukraine without risking their planes going there in fear of being shot down.




__





Draw a circle with a radius on a map







www.mapdevelopers.com


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Iskander artillery continues to pummel Ukrainian ground targets


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518844231086977024
Su-25 ground attack jets continue to pummel Ukrainian ground targets


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518792495374778370


Oldman1 said:


> Just to give you an idea of how important such weapons could do. It could threaten supply depots in Crimea, even sink their naval fleet parked at Sevastopol. Even hit their bridge that brings in supplies and troops from that Crimea bridge. Also can hit Belgorod without having to risk sending in their pilots with helos. Of course the Ukrainians can use other means to hit Belgorod since its closer to the Ukrainian-Russian border. Also with long range missiles they can launch from safer distance as well. I mean just look at what Russia has been doing to hit Western Ukraine without risking their planes going there in fear of being shot down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Draw a circle with a radius on a map
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mapdevelopers.com



In retaliation China will openly join the war and pummel Ukraine and Taiwan.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518701215676342273

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518663173938814982

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518845151937933312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518420320373379073


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518649450813607940
Good looking Ukrainian girls


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518457971591761920


----------



## Primus

That Guy said:


> Mariupol forces the Russians to either keep badly needed troops in Mariupol to blockade Ukrainian troops in Azovstal, which jeopardizes other fronts, OR they withdraw forces to reinforce other areas, allowing Ukrainian forces to breakthrough. Azovstal is HUGE, it is pretty much impossible to completely lock it down without tens of thousands of soldiers, which Russia needs badly to redeploy in other fronts.


Azovstal is huge yes, but needing tens of thousands of troops to keep it locked down? That's a bit over exaggerated. They need fewer than a thousand men, artillery/mortar support readily available as well as drone cover available and thats it. That should be enough to prevent a breakout.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518510986650607616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518328625564692481
Chechens get their hands on RPG-30 105mm anti tank rocket launchers


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518631009683714048


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Smerch artillery pummel Ukrainian ground targets


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517072369621295105

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517035768459505664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517037577362096129

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518427459942768640


----------



## DF41

mulj said:


> i was wondering if someone would reply on that idiotic statement about syrian mercenaries.


You see the person from which that idiotic statement came from.

No reply needed.

I dropped him where the sun and moon never shine and cockroaches and mould dwell.

Perhaps you should do the same too so you can have more time to enjoy your coffee and smell roses


----------



## mulj

DF41 said:


> You see the person from which that idiotic statement came from.
> 
> No reply needed.
> 
> I dropped him where the sun and moon never shine and cockroaches and mould dwell.
> 
> Perhaps you should do the same too so you can have more time to enjoy your coffee and smell roses


i am not in that stage yet but thx for suggestion.

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## DF41

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Smerch artillery pummel Ukrainian ground targets






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517072369621295105

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517035768459505664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517037577362096129

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518427459942768640





__





《喀秋莎》小女孩演唱_哔哩哔哩_bilibili


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m.bilibili.com

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Clutch

jamal18 said:


> An excellent analysis of Russia's plan B and the future of the war. 20 minutes, worth watching.



Plan B to redeploy to Donbas is also failing according to latest news.... What is Russian's Plan C???


Russia should start using tactical nukes (smaller yield not full nukes)....


----------



## gambit

That Guy said:


> I doubt that the Ukrainians will get long rang missiles. There's a clear limit to what NATO and the US are willing to provide, weapons threatening the Russian heartland is one of them.
> 
> Besides, *long range missiles won't help much as the immediate fighting is within Ukraine itself.*


See Doolittle Raiders. But look at the situation this way...

For starter, there is no doubt that Russia failed in many aspects of the war. As an Air Force guy, I pointed out enough on how the VKS failed and that *DIRECTLY* affected the ground war. Then Gary pointed out how the Russian Army failed many aspects of the ground war such as logistics and multiple fronts.

Next, since it is US intent to have the Russian military as weak as possible, what if there come a point where attacking deep into Russian home soil accomplish that goal? Or even just to move slightly towards that goal? If the US/NATO supply Ukraine enough, there would be spares to launch into Russia home soil then see Doolittle Raiders effects.


----------



## JX-1

NOW Russia decides to take out Ukrainian transport infra?? This should've been done at the very start.

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## Clutch

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518606138043879425



Everyone repents when caught and punishment awaits....


----------



## WotTen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518540245897199616



What a f-ing *MANIPULATIVE COWARD*

He is admitting that the US will fight Russia down to the last Ukrainian.

If the US wants to degrade Russian military capability, why not step in the ring? Why use Ukrainians as cannon fodder?

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## Viet

Germany green lights 50x Gepards to Ukraine.















Ukraine-Krieg: Bundesregierung erlaubt Panzerlieferung


Die Bundesregierung will Panzerlieferungen an die Ukraine erlauben. Der Rüstungskonzern Krauss-Maffei Wegmann soll "Gepard"-Flugabwehrpanzer aus früheren Beständen der Bundeswehr verkaufen dürfen.




www.tagesschau.de

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## Primus

Viet said:


> Germany green lights 50x Gepards to Ukraine.
> 
> View attachment 838132
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine-Krieg: Bundesregierung erlaubt Panzerlieferung
> 
> 
> Die Bundesregierung will Panzerlieferungen an die Ukraine erlauben. Der Rüstungskonzern Krauss-Maffei Wegmann soll "Gepard"-Flugabwehrpanzer aus früheren Beständen der Bundeswehr verkaufen dürfen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tagesschau.de


Now this is a big threat to the low flying Russian jets.

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## Paul2

Oldman1 said:


> Good thing most of the artillery provided shares the 155 or the Russian version 152.



The problem is Ukraine doesn't use Russian 152mm, Ukraine uses own 152mm cased ammo. Russian 152mm uses separately loaded charges.

Ukraine has another problem, they don't have short range 152mm rounds, only full power, and 70% power rounds.

Ukrainian 152mm is army division level, while Russian 152mm is regimental.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Wood

gambit said:


> See Doolittle Raiders. But look at the situation this way...
> 
> For starter, there is no doubt that Russia failed in many aspects of the war. As an Air Force guy, I pointed out enough on how the VKS failed and that *DIRECTLY* affected the ground war. Then Gary pointed out how the Russian Army failed many aspects of the ground war such as logistics and multiple fronts.
> 
> Next, since it is US intent to have the Russian military as weak as possible, what if there come a point where attacking deep into Russian home soil accomplish that goal? Or even just to move slightly towards that goal? If the US/NATO supply Ukraine enough, there would be spares to launch into Russia home soil then see Doolittle Raiders effects.


Doliitle Raiders were prepared to sacrifice their equipment to. I'm not sure Ukraine can afford that given their limited inventory of MiGs


----------



## vizier

Viet said:


> Germany green lights 50x Gepards to Ukraine.
> 
> View attachment 838132
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine-Krieg: Bundesregierung erlaubt Panzerlieferung
> 
> 
> Die Bundesregierung will Panzerlieferungen an die Ukraine erlauben. Der Rüstungskonzern Krauss-Maffei Wegmann soll "Gepard"-Flugabwehrpanzer aus früheren Beständen der Bundeswehr verkaufen dürfen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tagesschau.de



These can be a threat to helicopters and low flying Su-25 bomb runs in eastern war zone. Also can be transferred by itself being mobile to eastern zones. Armed drones however can fly higher than reach of gun based systems and can attack with atgms from about medium altitudes. 
But in western Ukraine something along the lines of Crotale radar equipped sam shorad is what can counter kalibr cruise missile strikes. These can be effective to a degree against cruise missiles as well.


----------



## That Guy

WotTen said:


> What a f-ing *MANIPULATIVE COWARD*
> 
> He is admitting that the US will fight Russia down to the last Ukrainian.
> 
> If the US wants to degrade Russian military capability, why not step in the ring? Why use Ukrainians as cannon fodder?


And? What are you gonna do about it? What's Russia or Ukraine gonna do about it?

This isn't video games this is reality. Might makes right, and the cunning rule the world. The US has plenty of the two in spades.



Huffal said:


> Azovstal is huge yes, but needing tens of thousands of troops to keep it locked down? That's a bit over exaggerated. They need fewer than a thousand men, artillery/mortar support readily available as well as drone cover available and thats it. That should be enough to prevent a breakout.


Yeah, just no. That's not how sieges work, especially not in the modern setting. You're also ignoring the geography of Azovstal, and the amount of ukrainian soldiers that still remain there, who have shown that they're still perfectly capable of ambushing Russian units around the area, and can come and go as they please. The truth is that Azovstal isn't as secure as Russia seems to think it is, and it's simply too big to actually secure properly.



gambit said:


> See Doolittle Raiders. But look at the situation this way...
> 
> For starter, there is no doubt that Russia failed in many aspects of the war. As an Air Force guy, I pointed out enough on how the VKS failed and that *DIRECTLY* affected the ground war. Then Gary pointed out how the Russian Army failed many aspects of the ground war such as logistics and multiple fronts.
> 
> Next, since it is US intent to have the Russian military as weak as possible, what if there come a point where attacking deep into Russian home soil accomplish that goal? Or even just to move slightly towards that goal? If the US/NATO supply Ukraine enough, there would be spares to launch into Russia home soil then see Doolittle Raiders effects.


Sure, but you'd have to convince the US that it is a tolerable escalation. I don't see that happening, as the US still seems hesitant to give certain weapons to Ukraine.


----------



## WotTen

That Guy said:


> This isn't video games this is reality. Might makes right.



Wrong. This is not the 19th century any more.

This is a war of perception and media narrative just as much as of weapons and armies. And this is especially true for democratic countries where public opinion must be maintained to sustain support for this war.

If people, especially the Western European public, start thinking the US is cynically exploiting the Ukrainians for an ulterior motive, it will be disastrous for the Western alliance.


----------



## Vergennes

"Western weapons of deliveries will cause WW3.... a nuclear war". "Russia will target western weapon shipments". 

Meanwhile in the real world ; @F-22Raptor 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518477889880170498

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## That Guy

WotTen said:


> Wrong. This is not the 19th century any more.
> 
> This is a war of perception and media narrative just as much as of weapons and armies. And this is especially true for democratic countries where public opinion must be maintained to sustain support for this war.
> 
> If people, especially the Western European public, start thinking the US is cynically exploiting the Ukrainians for an ulterior motive, it will be disastrous for the Western alliance.


Once again? What are you gonna do about it? The world has mostly sided with Europe, USA and Ukraine against Russia.

The Russians have pretty much lost the propaganda war, and these feel good tweets and staged raids from the Russians can't do anything to change that.

By your own standard, the US has won.

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## Viet

vizier said:


> These can be a threat to helicopters and low flying Su-25 bomb runs in eastern war zone. Also can be transferred by itself being mobile to eastern zones. Armed drones however can fly higher than reach of gun based systems and can attack with atgms from about medium altitudes.
> But in western Ukraine something along the lines of Crotale radar equipped sam shorad is what can counter kalibr cruise missile strikes. These can be effective to a degree against cruise missiles as well.


Ukraine will get everything it needs. Just a matter of time. Including nuclear weapons. I think that will come. North Korea can build nukes there is no reason why Ukraine can’t. Putin has expressed his clear intention, he wants to exterminate Ukrainians as people, race, nation.


----------



## That Guy

Vergennes said:


> "Western weapons of deliveries will cause WW3.... a nuclear war". "Russia will target western weapon shipments".
> 
> Meanwhile in the real world ; @F-22Raptor
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518477889880170498


USA's response: "$13 billion go brrrrrrt"

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518849437933740034

Reactions: Like Like:
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## WotTen

That Guy said:


> Once again? What are you gonna do about it? The world has mostly sided with Europe, USA and Ukraine against Russia.
> 
> The Russians have pretty much lost the propaganda war, and these feel good tweets and staged raids from the Russians can't do anything to change that.
> 
> By your own standard, the US has won.
> View attachment 838141



It seems you either did not read my post or did not understand it, so I won't bother repeating it. Hint: read the last paragraph again.


----------



## Viet

Huffal said:


> Now this is a big threat to the low flying Russian jets.


More to come
Germany is the 4th largest weapons exporter.
In few years the US will make Ukraine to a country with a powerful army Russia would not dare to attack.


----------



## Paul2

News coming of Ukrainian attack on Kozacha Lopan. Russians were entrenched there since the start of the war.

Ukrainians ran right into entrenched line, and lost a company. Otherwise it's 3:1 for Ukraine near Kharkiv, clearing the perimeter.

They got overly ambitious there. I wonder whether they seen Russian entrenchment, or not to begin with.

Frontal attack on it with just a company sized force is a strange decision.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518799487057252353

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## mmr

thetutle said:


> Poor Scott Ritter, keeps trying to have sex with young girls on the internet but keeps running into cops. He quit his job as a UN weapons inspector in 1998 because the US was NOT getting tough on Saddam Hussein.
> 
> Then after getting caught for child sex offences in 2001 stared to become Saddam's protector.
> 
> Then in 2009 he needed more child sex so he tried online again. And again failed to get any sex but did succeed in spending time in jail for trying.
> 
> This is the guy they rely on for analysis. Very sad.


he probably still trying to find small girls for sex...



Vergennes said:


> "Western weapons of deliveries will cause WW3.... a nuclear war". "Russia will target western weapon shipments".
> 
> Meanwhile in the real world ; @F-22Raptor
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518477889880170498


lol good one. 

next time they will send flowers and say "pretty please"

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## mmr

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518799487057252353


source : trust me bro



US and allies to move ‘heaven and earth’ to help Ukraine, says defence secretary​*The United States has vowed to move “heaven and earth” to help Ukraine win its battle against Russia’s invasion as it hosted defence talks in Germany with allies from 40 nations.*

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## That Guy

WotTen said:


> It seems you either did not read my post or did not understand it, so I won't bother repeating it. Hint: read the last paragraph again.


You said...

"If people, especially the Western European public, start thinking the US is cynically exploiting the Ukrainians for an ulterior motive, it will be disastrous for the Western alliance."

You also said that I was...

"Wrong"

Seeing as you've failed to point out where I'm wrong, my point stands.

Russia has lost the battle of narratives.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518918784261795841

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518858233787604992


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

JX-1 said:


> NOW Russia decides to take out Ukrainian transport infra?? This should've been done at the very start.



It was Putin who tied the military's hands. He wanted Ukraine to accept his demands without much destruction on Ukraine. This is the reason that Putin still calls it "Special Military Operation" and not a war. Declaring war means mobilizing the entire country and gearing all resources towards that end.

Nevertheless, Russia has already achieved destroying the Ukrainian energy, communication, and arms industry centers, and liberated a section of Donbas. They're gradually moving to seize the rest of Donbas and the rest of Southern Ukraine including Odessa. And to achieve these objectives, the destruction of Uktrainian transport infrastructure comes into the picture.

You can see below Russian armed forces liberating the city of Kremennaya in LPR (Luhansk People's Republic). And from this win in this city, it is clear the Russian armed forces are gradually achieving their objectives.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518917436040519680


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518927373835644930

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518933949136916482


----------



## WotTen

That Guy said:


> You also said that I was...
> 
> "Wrong"
> 
> Seeing as you've failed to point out where I'm wrong, my point stands.



You wrote "Might makes right" and I wrote that you were "Wrong".

Then, *AFTER* I wrote about the importance of media narrative in the modern world, you changed your tune to say the West had won the media narrative. *AFTER*. Your initial position was that it was all about "Might makes right".

You still don't understand that my comment was about how the latest statement from Lloyd Austin changes the US media narrative. Here is some context

_Austin took his comments further, saying that the US wants “to see Russia weakened to the point where it can’t do things like invade Ukraine”.

Previously, the US position had been that the goal of American military aid was to help Ukraine win and to defend Ukraine’s NATO neighbours against Russian threats._









Putin’s foreign minister says the risk of nuclear war ‘is serious’


Russia’s top diplomat warns the west against provoking “world war III” in a television interview where he lashed out at US claims that Putin’s army was failing.




www.smh.com.au





Of course the Western media will do damage control and restore the narrative that this war is really about Ukraine, not any ulterior US motive, but it shows why military men should focus on military matters and let diplomats handle the media narrative.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518916291570159618

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518717785949589506


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

They're preaching Ukraine is winning. How is it possible then that their critical military bases are gradually seized by the Russian forces?

The great game of the Russian military planners is burning fruits. After massive aerial, land, and missile campaigns, the Ukrainian front-line forces are crumbling, and Russian forces are seizing their positions while minimizing their casualties. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518904009444274176

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518910281883267072

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518918078658134017


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518875660533608448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518936322131570689


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518940811102150662

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## F-22Raptor

Russian units that withdrew several weeks ago from around Kyiv and other areas were “in worse shape than the United States expected,” the military official said, and “left a trail of equipment” that was either destroyed or inoperative and traveled through Belarus into Russia. Many were quickly redeployed into Donbas.

“The Russians are reconstituting with poorly maintained and not-modernized equipment,” the official said. 

“Some tanks have a driver and no crew,” and a number of units are believed to be undermanned, some down to 70 percent strength. Western military doctrine generally holds that a unit down by 10 percent is in bad shape, while one depleted by 30 percent is no longer considered effective in combat.

Despite the number of long-distance weapons they have fired, the Russians’ targeting has been less than optimal. “We are shocked when we miss something,” a second U.S. military official said. The Russians “are not shocked.”



https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/04/25/russia-ukraine-east-ground-battle/


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518790516913156100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518886364389027840


----------



## The SC

Vladimir Putin awarded the title Hero of Russia to the deputy of the State Duma of Chechnya Adam Delimkhanov for his courage and heroism during the special operation


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518894425182818305

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## Viet

Putin means business.
He threatens the invasion of Moldavia.
The Russian speaking separatists are oppressed. 2 TV towers are damaged.
as expected Putin seeks pretexts for war. Luckily he doesn’t accuse Moldavia gov as Nazi.










Ukraine-Liveblog: ++ Russland meldet Einnahme der Region Cherson ++


Russlands Verteidigungsministerium hat die Einnahme des gesamten Gebiets Cherson gemeldet. In der Ukraine wurden inzwischen mehr als 16.000 Menschen als vermisst gemeldet. Der Liveblog vom Dienstag zum Nachlesen.




www.tagesschau.de


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518955706069757954

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518956892638388225

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518950597457809409


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518750259618672642


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518942800469008385


----------



## F-22Raptor

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518750259618672642




Asked on Tuesday whether Ukraine is currently winning the war against Russia, Kirby said Ukrainian forces have thus far “certainly defeated” Russian President Vladimir Putin’s “strategic objectives.”

“It’s hard to look at this fight and [conclude] that Russia has won, that Mr. Putin achieved his objectives,” Kirby said. “He has not. The Ukrainians have beaten him back at almost every turn.”

The remarks in Germany from the Pentagon officials are the latest escalation in Washington’s wartime rhetoric toward Moscow.

On Monday, following his and Blinken’s meeting with Zelenskyy, Austin said the United States wants “to see Russia weakened to the degree that it can’t do the kinds of things that it has done in invading Ukraine.”

Russia “has already lost a lot of military capability and a lot of its troops, quite frankly,” Austin told reporters in Poland. “And we want to see them not have the capability to very quickly reproduce that capability.”

Kirby echoed Austin’s statements about a “weakened” Russia on Tuesday, saying: “We want Russia not to be able to threaten their neighbors again in the future. That’s what we’re talking about here.”

Austin “doesn’t want to see a Russia that can invade its neighbors and threaten and coerce other countries on the continent,” Kirby said, adding: “We don’t want a Russia that’s capable of exerting that kind of malign influence in Europe or anywhere around the world.”









Austin: U.S. believes Ukraine ‘can win’ war against Russia


The Pentagon’s spokesperson also said a Ukrainian victory “is certainly in the cards.”




www.politico.com

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518786948365791234


----------



## thetutle

PakFactor said:


> Agreed makes no sense keeping Russians troops bogged down in Azovstal. It’s troops your not moving to reinforce other positions, they should have a week ago scorched earth that place and not waste time on holed up people. I just don’t understand some of these Russian war planners and I think Putin is to involved trying to make this a little operation number and scale wise. Just dumb planning.


there aren't many places in the world like this. It was built to produce steel probably after a nuclear war with USA. 


Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia has 150 million population with backing from 1.4 billion Chinese in China. Ukraine has less than 40 million people. Numbers game not looking good for Ukraine. It's basically Scotland vs England. And Zelensky needs to be a Robert the Bruce to pull this one off.


number dont look good for Israel either. but look at it. 

Russia is 140 million but USA, Canada, Australia, UK, EU is 900 milion. 

So even 1,3 billion impoverished Chinese join the fight, Russia is still behind. But china is not as stupid as you think. 


WotTen said:


> What a f-ing *MANIPULATIVE COWARD*
> 
> He is admitting that the US will fight Russia down to the last Ukrainian.
> 
> If the US wants to degrade Russian military capability, why not step in the ring? Why use Ukrainians as cannon fodder?


Why not? they want freedom. 


Paul2 said:


> The problem is Ukraine doesn't use Russian 152mm, Ukraine uses own 152mm cased ammo. Russian 152mm uses separately loaded charges.
> 
> Ukraine has another problem, they don't have short range 152mm rounds, only full power, and 70% power rounds.


the western world can supply all of the above. 


WotTen said:


> This is a war of perception and media narrative just as much as of weapons and armies. And this is especially true for democratic countries where public opinion must be maintained to sustain support for this war.


has anyone asked you or me what we think? no, our governments provide arms to Ukraine regardless of what we think. 


WotTen said:


> If people, especially the Western European public, start thinking the US is cynically exploiting the Ukrainians for an ulterior motive, it will be disastrous for the Western alliance.


no its not. public opinion is irrelevant in the west in such circumstances,

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518964998134972416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518955393422135304


----------



## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518950597457809409


when I hear the name "Lloyd Austin", I imagine some 50 year old Ivy League jock that looks like Robert Redford. And then I see this guy.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> Russia is 140 million but USA, Canada, Australia, UK, EU is 900 milion.



True, but Russia has nukes so.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518964998134972416



Send the gas China's way. Chinese will never have to live in freezing temperature ever again.


----------



## thetutle

Tai Hai Chen said:


> True, but Russia has nukes so.


it does have some nuclear capability. we dont know how much if it ever acually needed to launch a full strike, but it does. 

I was just addressing your population numbers that you cited a source of Russian strength. its not, Russia is greatly outnumbered.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> it does have some nuclear capability. we dont know how much if it ever acually needed to launch a full strike, but it does.
> 
> I was just addressing your population numbers that you cited a source of Russian strength. its not, Russia is greatly outnumbered.



Russia population 150 million is not very small. It is the most populous country whose capital is in Europe. Also, Russia is backed economically by 1.4 billion size China which has biggest economy on the planet in terms of PPP and gold production.

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## The SC

Large crowds of Russian tanks and armored vehicles near the Ukrainian border in the Belgorod region of Russia since night

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## The SC




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518964657062662144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518972217471688707

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518972451853643777


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518968653101817856
For this reason, the Russians invested a lot in nuclear weapons because they know that they are not a match in a conventional war against NATO, technological and quantitative superiority are in favor of NATO.. The latter has around 60 000 more IFV than Russia and in the air almost 10 000 more airplanes..

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518972723275321344

Def Secretary Austin says Ukraine will apply for NATO down the road


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518919506885812224


----------



## Ich

Russia has halted gas deliveries to Poland

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## thetutle

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia population 150 million is not very small. It is the most populous country whose capital is in Europe. Also, Russia is backed economically by 1.4 billion size China which has biggest economy on the planet in terms of PPP and gold production.


well its not backed by china. In any way. China will not finance them. it might buy discount oil and gas. thats about it. 

Also compare chinas trade wit EU and US and chinas trade with Russia. its virtually non existent.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518984729168596992


----------



## sms

thetutle said:


> Poor Scott Ritter, keeps trying to have sex with young girls on the internet but keeps running into cops. He quit his job as a UN weapons inspector in 1998 because the US was NOT getting tough on Saddam Hussein.
> 
> Then after getting caught for child sex offences in 2001 stared to become Saddam's protector.
> 
> Then in 2009 he needed more child sex so he tried online again. And again failed to get any sex but did succeed in spending time in jail for trying.
> 
> This is the guy they rely on for analysis. Very sad.



Indeed , It's sad !

That's the harsh reality of today's world. If Obama can get peace price any thing can happen!


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> well its not backed by china. In any way. China will not finance them. it might buy discount oil and gas. thats about it.
> 
> Also compare chinas trade wit EU and US and chinas trade with Russia. its virtually non existent.



China hates America due to America's backing of Taiwan independence movement. Ukraine is where China can really hurt America by depleting America's tanks and artillery in Ukraine.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518983065691103232


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518916887983570944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518914555556294656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518920237772869632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518866310033141761


----------



## sms

Oldman1 said:


> Ukraine has already hit the Russian heartland. I don't see any nukes falling. Ukraine needs something like ATACMs from HIMARs or something similar. Long range missiles will definitely help because Ukraine is huge and there are many places where Ukrainians want to hit heavily defended places occupied by the Russians like supply depots and airbases, command and control, etc. That helps affect the frontlines because Russians can be affected by shortage of fuel and ammo.



Any thing with range longer than 300km will be the violation of set world order and MTCR?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518991158479056896

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## PakFactor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518972723275321344
> 
> Def Secretary Austin says Ukraine will apply for NATO down the road



And giving Russian's more reason to stay in Ukraine, Lol.

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## jamal18

F-22Raptor said:


> It’s a mix of Ukrainian stocks with freshly trained tank crews and Eastern European supplied tanks.
> 
> The Pentagon said last week that Ukraine has achieved tank parity with Russia.


I just find it hard to believe that logistically that amount of armour could be located and delivered. The Russians have taken out smaller arms shipments. With Russian air-superiority Ukrainian armour losses would be massive.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jamal18 said:


> I just find it hard to believe that logistically that amount of armour could be located and delivered. The Russians have taken out smaller arms shipments. With Russian air-superiority Ukrainian armour losses would be massive.



Also, in eastern Ukraine near Russia Ukrainian convoys would be vulnerable to ambush.

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## Meengla

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> They're preaching Ukraine is winning. How is it possible then that their critical military bases are gradually seized by the Russian forces?
> 
> The great game of the Russian military planners is burning fruits. After massive aerial, land, and missile campaigns, the Ukrainian front-line forces are crumbling, and Russian forces are seizing their positions while minimizing their casualties.



Short term, Russia is winning--just like they did against Finland just before WW 2 after getting a very bloody nose. But long term... nah, past Putin it will be some other Yeltsin and Russia will be like another part of Europe--at least from the west of the Urals (minus the Chechens etc). 



thetutle said:


> So even 1,3 billion *impoverished *Chinese join the fight, Russia is still behind. But china is not as stupid as you think.



You have a very low opinion of anyone who is not from western Europe or its civilizational derivatives! And it repeatedly shows in your posts above in imperialistic ways. What a pity years of Tito did to your psyche! You have not even blinked an eye about the destruction of Iraq in an illegal war of 2003 where *millions *were killed and/or displaced because, to you, a 'dictator' was going to be removed and because in your opinion there is no place for dictators in this world! 

Honestly: You seem like trying too hard to 'fit in'. I have been in America for decades--the real driver of the Western geopolitics, not like the fringe country you are living in--and I have a large circle of (mostly) Americans but I don't have to rely on some warped ideas to 'fit in'. But then maybe because Pakistanis, despite our all faults, never had to live under totalitarian societies.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518943772834422786

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518944210916937728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518944824371691520


----------



## jamal18

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518972723275321344
> 
> Def Secretary Austin says Ukraine will apply for NATO down the road


I guess he's never heard the advice, ' When in a hole, stop digging.'

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## The SC

thetutle said:


> it does have some nuclear capability. we dont know how much if it ever acually needed to launch a full strike, but it does.
> 
> I was just addressing your population numbers that you cited a source of Russian strength. its not, Russia is greatly outnumbered.


Here you go..and BTW Germany had only 70 million population and no nukes.. but kept the world on its toes for 5 years..

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-russian-nuclear-threat-is-real.740803/


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518271176669286402

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517035935455752194


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518992685192953856

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518994878033809410

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518996616912461824


----------



## jamal18

''...in essence Nato is at war with Russia.' Lavrov

I like Lavrov. He is measured in what he says, and like all diplomats should be he is careful with his words. I find these words to be cataclysmic. We are in World War 3.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518955435033776128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518912855764094977

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## Ich

Gazprom now says that gas flow to Poland is active. Rumors says that Poland payed in Rubles shortly after flow was on zero.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518986143068524544

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518875484376940546

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518870123787997184

On February 24, Russian President Vladimir Putin, in response to an appeal from the leaders of the Donbass republics, decided to conduct a special military operation.

The main events of April 26 - in our online broadcast:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518704067052199936

Russia has launched a special military operation in accordance with the UN Charter, Putin said. The President of the Russian Federation said this at a meeting with UN Secretary General António Guterres:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519004276122693638


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518875484376940546
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518870123787997184
> 
> On February 24, Russian President Vladimir Putin, in response to an appeal from the leaders of the Donbass republics, decided to conduct a special military operation.
> 
> The main events of April 26 - in our online broadcast:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518704067052199936
> 
> Russia has launched a special military operation in accordance with the UN Charter, Putin said. The President of the Russian Federation said this at a meeting with UN Secretary General António Guterres:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519004276122693638



Kiev army shelling civilians for years in violation of Minsk agreement. Russia has the right to protect civilians.


----------



## The SC

The result of the policy of the West and the Kyiv regime under its control can only be the disintegration of Ukraine into several states, Secretary of the Security Council of the Russian Federation Nikolai Patrushev said in an interview with Rossiyskaya Gazeta:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518990996964577280
MOSCOW, 26 April. /TASS/. 

Earlier, Hippie said that the British government considers it acceptable for Ukraine to strike at "legitimate military targets" on the territory of the Russian Federation using Western weapons.

The "depth of flight" of the thought of the leadership of the British Ministry of Defense is second only to the intelligence of the leadership of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of this country," Zakharova wrote.

"Do we understand correctly that for the sake of" disrupting the logistics of military supplies "Russia can strike at military targets on the territory of those NATO countries that supply weapons to the Kyiv regime? After all, this directly leads to death and bloodshed on the territory of Ukraine. As far as I understand, Britain one of these countries," the diplomat said.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518994643727360004

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## mmr

Ich said:


> Gazprom now says that gas flow to Poland is active. Rumors says that Poland payed in Rubles shortly after flow was on zero.


 

Rumors lol ya again "trust me bro!" 

russia is just desperate..



The SC said:


> The result of the policy of the West and the Kyiv regime under its control can only be the disintegration of Ukraine into several states, Secretary of the Security Council of the Russian Federation Nikolai Patrushev said in an interview with Rossiyskaya Gazeta:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518990996964577280
> MOSCOW, 26 April. /TASS/.
> 
> Earlier, Hippie said that the British government considers it acceptable for Ukraine to strike at "legitimate military targets" on the territory of the Russian Federation using Western weapons.
> 
> The "depth of flight" of the thought of the leadership of the British Ministry of Defense is second only to the intelligence of the leadership of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of this country," Zakharova wrote.
> 
> "Do we understand correctly that for the sake of" disrupting the logistics of military supplies "Russia can strike at military targets on the territory of those NATO countries that supply weapons to the Kyiv regime? After all, this directly leads to death and bloodshed on the territory of Ukraine. As far as I understand, Britain one of these countries," the diplomat said.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518994643727360004


If russia has the balls they would attack nato by now

almost every country sending heavy weapons to Ukraine

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## The SC

Croatian President Zoran Milanovic called the possible entry of Finland and Sweden into NATO "a very dangerous adventure":


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518983489764401152

The Basmanny Court of Moscow has taken into custody Vasily Strizhakov, the first of those suspected of plotting the murder of TV journalist Vladimir Solovyov:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518980898099712005

The President of the unrecognized Transnistria, Vadim Krasnoselsky, said that the traces of the criminals who committed terrorist attacks in the republic lead to Ukraine:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518975800497905664

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## jamal18

Ich said:


> Gazprom now says that gas flow to Poland is active. Rumors says that Poland payed in Rubles shortly after flow was on zero.


Well, this polish uprising didn't last long!

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## The SC

Russia has suspended gas supplies to Poland under the Yamal contract, Onet reported, citing unofficial data from government circles and energy company PGNiG:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518974533742604288

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## Ich

mmr said:


> Rumors lol ya again "trust me bro!"



Well.

First: The gas flow was on zero. You can see it some posts before my post.

Second: If it is rumors, then i say it is rumors. So everyone can decide self.


----------



## The SC

MOSCOW, 26 April. /TASS/. The moment of truth has come for the international community and the UN, which will show whether humanity will live on the basis of the charter of the organization. This was stated by Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov on Tuesday at a press conference following talks in Moscow with UN Secretary General António Guterres, who had previously visited Turkey on Monday and will leave for Kyiv on Wednesday.

The head of the Russian Foreign Ministry and the UN Secretary General discussed changes in the organization, as well as the situation around Ukraine. Lavrov noted that Russia is interested in negotiations with Ukraine, but Kyiv's gesture about the meeting in Mariupol is "theatrical." At the same time, the UN is ready to help with the evacuation of residents of Mariupol and humanitarian corridors.

TASS collected Lavrov's main statements from the press conference, as well as Guterres' response.

*On the situation around Ukraine*

The situation around Ukraine, as Lavrov said, was accumulating and was the result of the course of the United States and its allies "to the unlimited expansion of NATO, the establishment of a unipolar world." "For all these long years, Ukraine has been used as a springboard to irritate and contain" Russia.

Russia stands for a negotiated solution to the situation in Ukraine. Moscow agreed to negotiations immediately after Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky proposed them in early March. However, "the way the Ukrainian delegation behaved at the talks, the way Zelensky himself behaved, refusing to confirm that they received our new proposals a week ago, of course, is depressing. Apparently, they are not particularly interested in negotiations." If Ukraine continues its line, there will be no results of negotiations.

Ukraine's proposal for negotiations with the Russian Federation in Mariupol is a "theatrical gesture," as Lavrov emphasized. "Ukrainians love to stage everything, apparently, they wanted to put on another heartbreaking scene." At the same time, it is too early to talk about mediators in the negotiation process at this stage. Russia wants "to receive an answer to the latest version of the draft document, which <...> was handed over 10-12 days ago and about which the Ukrainian negotiators did not report to their president."

Russia is interested "to cooperate with colleagues from the UN and with colleagues from the International Committee of the Red Cross in terms of additional efforts to alleviate the suffering and plight of the civilian population [of Ukraine]." The forces of the UN Office for Humanitarian Affairs have already been able to send five convoys with humanitarian aid to the regions of Ukraine.

*About the situation in the world*

Attempts by Western colleagues "to produce various partnerships, <...> which are presented as a club of "leaders", a club of the elite" to discuss key issues of international politics outside the framework of universal formats under the auspices of the UN and its system, contradict the charter of the world organization, the Russian minister noted. "What is this if not competition with the UN?" This "is a dangerous call for the UN, an attempt to cross out the basic rules of the UN Charter, the basic principle of the UN Charter, namely that the organization was created on the basis of the sovereign equality of states."

In international relations, "the moment of truth has come: either we will all accept that someone alone with a group of his satellites decides how humanity will live, or humanity will live on the basis of the UN Charter. This, in fact, is a very simple choice." "This kind of conversation is impossible to try to delay and postpone."

"No one wants any wars, God forbid." However, countries that violate the UN Charter must be required to respond. "More and more <...> want to take just such a position."

Russia hopes that the UN "will play a catalytic role in the development of such an honest dialogue without ultimatums, without threats and without attempts to solve problems by force, including the financial and economic power that our Western colleagues have, abusing their position in the world system <... > it's just limitless."

*About changes in the UN*

The head of the Russian Foreign Ministry pointed out that the resolution on the right of veto of permanent members of the UN Security Council, which was submitted to the organization's General Assembly, "has nothing to do with and will not affect in any way the negotiations that have been going on for many years on the reform of the Security Council." "The right of veto is not going anywhere, <…> it is one of the supporting pillars of the UN, without it the organization will go haywire."

"Now the world has become different, the Americans want to make it unipolar forever, but the objective process is going in the opposite direction - the world is multipolar." "The Security Council must get rid of its main defect - the dominance of one group of countries. Out of 15 seats, six belong to Western countries and their allies." "We want to see representatives of Asia, Africa, Latin America in this body on a permanent basis."

*UN Secretary General's response*

Guterres also said that the secretariat of the organization complies with the resolutions of the UN Security Council: “If I regret anything today, it is that the UN was not allowed to be part of the Normandy format to follow the implementation of the Minsk agreements.”

He acknowledged that the Russian Federation has a number of claims, but the UN Charter provides for a large number of mechanisms to consider such concerns, in particular the International Court of Justice [UN]."

"The UN is constantly calling for a ceasefire to protect civilians and ensure dialogue in order to reach a settlement of the situation. So far this is not possible. Today, active fighting is taking place throughout the Donbass, leading to significant destruction." The UN Secretary General proposed "creating a contact group on humanitarian issues that would bring together the UN, Russia and Ukraine to look for opportunities to open safe corridors with a simultaneous ceasefire to ensure the effectiveness of these corridors." At the same time, the UN is ready to help with the evacuation of civilians from Mariupol, including from Azovstal.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518974448963100678


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## F-22Raptor

U.S. intel helped Ukraine protect air defenses, shoot down Russian plane carrying hundreds of troops​

As Russia launched its invasion, the U.S. gave Ukrainian forces detailed intelligence about exactly when and where Russian missiles and bombs were intended to strike, prompting Ukraine to move air defenses and aircraft out of harm's way, current and former U.S. officials told NBC News.

That near real-time intelligence-sharing also paved the way for Ukraine to shoot down a Russian transport plane carrying hundreds of troops in the early days of the war, the officials say, helping repel a Russian assault on a key airport near Kyiv.

It was part of what American officials call a massive and unprecedented intelligence-sharing operation with a non-NATO partner that they say has played a crucial role in Ukraine's success to date against the larger and better-equipped Russian military.

The details about the air defenses and the transport plane, which have not previously been reported, underscore why, two months into the war, officials assess that intelligence from U.S. spy agencies and the Pentagon has been an important factor in helping Ukraine thwart Russia's effort to seize most of the country. 

"From the get-go, we leaned pretty heavily forward in sharing both strategic and actionable intelligence with Ukraine," a U.S. official briefed on the matter told NBC News. "It's been impactful both at a tactical and strategic level. There are examples where you could tell a pretty clear story that this made a major difference."

In a statement, a spokesperson for the White House National Security Council said, "We are regularly providing detailed, timely intelligence to the Ukrainians on the battlefield to help them defend their country against Russian aggression and will continue to do so."

NBC News is withholding some specific details that the network confirmed about the intelligence sharing at the request of U.S. military and intelligence officials, who say reporting on it could help the Russians shut down important sources of information.

"There has been a lot of real-time intelligence shared in terms of things that could be used for specific targeting of Russian forces," said a former senior intelligence official familiar with the situation. 

The information includes commercial satellite images "but also a lot of other intelligence about, for example, where certain types of Russian units are active."

Ukraine continues to move air defenses and aircraft nearly every day with the help of American intelligence, which is one reason Russia has not been able to establish air dominance.

In some cases, Ukraine moved the targeted air defense systems or planes just in time, the officials said.

"The Russian military has literally been cratering empty fields where air defenses were once set up," one U.S. official said. "It has had an enormous impact on the Russian military's ability on the ground."

While U.S.-Ukrainian cooperation had been building since Russia seized Crimea in 2014, the Biden administration shifted into high gear in the weeks before the Russian invasion, when a U.S. military team visited to assess the state of Ukraine's air defenses. 

The Americans provided Ukraine with detailed advice about how to disperse their air defense systems, a move that U.S. officials say helped Ukraine prevent Russia from seizing control of the skies. 

Once the invasion got underway, lawyers in the U.S. defense and intelligence bureaucracy imposed guidance that in some cases limited the sharing of targeting information that could enable lethal Ukrainian strikes against Russians. 

But as Russia's aggression has deepened, and under pressure from Congress, all of those impediments have been removed, officials say.

Earlier this month, for example, the director of National Intelligence withdrew and replaced a memo that prohibited intelligence sharing for the purposes of regaining captured territory or aiding Ukrainian strikes in Crimea or the Donbas, officials said. NBC News was first to report on the expanded sharing.
Intel has helped Ukraine defend, and also attack​Even before the change, the U.S. had provided Ukraine with timely information enabling it to better target Russian forces.

Ukrainian forces have used specific coordinates shared by the U.S. to direct fire on Russian positions and aircraft, current and former officials tell NBC News.

Those early shoot-downs helped thwart the Russian air assault operation designed to take Hostomel Airport near Kyiv, which would have allowed the Russians to flood troops and equipment to the region around the capital. The Russians eventually took the airport for a time, but never had enough control to fly in massive amounts of equipment. That failure had a significant impact on the battle for Kyiv, U.S. officials say.

The CIA is also devoting significant resources, current and former officials say, to gathering intelligence with the aim of protecting Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, whom the Russians want to kill. 

The agency is consulting with the Ukrainians on "how best to move him around, making sure that he's not co-located with his entire chain of command, things like that," a U.S. official said.

"I would say where we are at is revolutionary in terms of what we have been able to do," Army Lt. Gen. Scott Berrier, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, told Congress last month in describing the sharing of information and intelligence between the U.S. and Ukraine.

CIA Director William Burns told Congress last month that when he met with Zelenskyy in Kiev in January, "We shared with him intelligence we had at the time about some of the most graphic and concerning details of Russian planning about Kyiv as well and we've continued to do that every day since then."

White House press secretary Jen Psaki said last month that the U.S. has shared "a significant amount of detailed timely intelligence on Russia's plans and activities with the Ukrainian government to help Ukrainians defend themselves," adding that the material "includes information that should help them inform and develop their military response to Russia's invasion, that's what's happening — or has been happening."

The U.S. military and the CIA began seeking to deepen their relationships with Ukrainian counterparts after Russia seized Crimea in 2014. 

The CIA first helped Ukrainian services root out Russian spies, the former senior official said, and then provided training and guidance. The U.S. military also trained Ukrainian soldiers. 

"There has been a very robust relationship between U.S. intel agencies and the Ukrainians for the last eight years," the official said, adding that by the time Russia invaded two months ago, the U.S. trusted Ukraine enough to provide details of Russian troops' deployment, attack routes and real-time targeting information.

"The foreknowledge we had of Russian plans and intentions shows that our intelligence was very solid on the overall situation," said John McLaughlin, a former acting CIA director who now teaches at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies. "So just logically, if we so earnestly want them to win as we have publicly said, it only follows that we'd be giving them the results of intelligence. It would be along the lines of, 'Here's what we know — it doesn't matter how we know it.'"

One Western intelligence official noted that it's not only the intelligence that has proven decisive — it's the performance of the Ukrainians in using it. The source said Ukrainians have fought the Russians with agility and courage, and when they have received actionable intelligence, they have moved with astonishing speed.

McLaughlin said the Ukrainians have made clever use of so-called open-source intelligence — commercial satellite imagery and intercepts of Russians talking openly on unencrypted radios. 

"The fact that there is so much open source [intelligence] available means that those collecting classified intelligence can focus on the things that are really hard and not publicly available."

As the Ukrainian government sees it, intelligence sharing has improved, a source familiar with the government's view told NBC News. That's as far as he would go.

"It's gotten better," he said.









U.S. intel helped Ukraine protect air defenses, shoot down Russian plane carrying hundreds of troops


Ukrainian forces have used specific coordinates shared by the U.S. to direct fire on Russian positions and aircraft, current and former officials tell NBC News.




www.cnbc.com

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## oberschlesier

Ich said:


> Well.
> 
> First: The gas flow was on zero. You can see it some posts before my post.
> 
> Second: If it is rumors, then i say it is rumors. So everyone can decide self.



The Gas import was cut on the yamal pipeline, which was lately mostly used to get Gas from Germany(!). The contract on this pipeline would anyway end till the end of the year. So this mostly a PR move from Russia. They would have to cut the North Stream, otherwise not much is changing.


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## Viet

The SC said:


> Russia has suspended gas supplies to Poland under the Yamal contract, Onet reported, citing unofficial data from government circles and energy company PGNiG:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518974533742604288


Putin acts like a gas station owner who refuses to give gasoline to car drivers. Putin the almighty.
Poland wants to end imports of coal, gas and oil from Russia by year end anyway. Now the end just comes quicker. Poland needs to seek imports 8 months from elsewhere.


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## F-22Raptor

It’s becoming clearer by the day that the US has significant intelligence superiority over the Russians.

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## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> It’s becoming clearer by the day that the US has significant intelligence superiority over the Russians.


Ukraine will prevail over terrorism. At the special summit in Germany more than 40 countries promise long term supports to Ukraine with weapons, money, intelligence.
never seen before in history.

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## nang2

Ich said:


> Gazprom now says that gas flow to Poland is active. Rumors says that Poland payed in Rubles shortly after flow was on zero.


No, Gazprom just turned the tap back on. Its official plan is to turn off on Wednesday morning. It probably just did a dry-run.

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## F-22Raptor

Viet said:


> More than 40 countries promise to long term supports to Ukraine with weapons, money, intelligence.
> never seen before in history.
> 
> 
> View attachment 838264



The penetration of Russian military planning is what’s astonishing. There’s almost certainly high level Russian officers that are US spies.

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## Viet

Lambrecht 
Die Zaudererin.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519016283806781442


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519017729365270529


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## Ich

oberschlesier said:


> The Gas import was cut on the yamal pipeline, which was lately mostly used to get Gas from Germany(!). The contract on this pipeline would anyway end till the end of the year. So this mostly a PR move from Russia. They would have to cut the North Stream, otherwise not much is changing.



The Yamal pipeline?


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519020714937962497

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519011559917469696


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518967214577225729

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## oberschlesier

nang2 said:


> No, Gazprom just turned the tap back on. Its official plan is to turn off on Wednesday morning. It probably just did a dry-run.


Yes, it was a threat for not paying in rubles. Nobody will pay for Gas in rubles, the contract is in USD. Let see if they will cut it completly.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519006945079877633

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3


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519023511909642240


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## nang2

oberschlesier said:


> Yes, it was a threat for not paying in rubles. Nobody will pay for Gas in rubles, the contract is in USD. Let see if they will cut it completly.


What is your bet on the answer of that "if"?


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## oberschlesier

Ich said:


> The Yamal pipeline?
> 
> View attachment 838266


Yes, this one. It can be reverses to get gas from Germany and very often is used like this.


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## Elvin

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519011559917469696




It is interesting to see how the big powers in Europe split Eastern Europe into zones of interest. Romania and Moldova was given to France, hence why most Romanian companies were sold to French companies, and now this. Nice to see them being obvious about it. 

On another note, regarding Zoran Milanovic the President of Croatia, it is well known in Bosnia that Orban, Jansa and Milanovic are Moscow puppets. Luckily, Jansa lost the elections in Slovenia, and now it is just Orban and Milanovic, although, the Polish government is on some of the stuff, just not the stuff that Russia is financing.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518661281930227714

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
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## Ich

oberschlesier said:


> Yes, this one. It can be reverses to get gas from Germany and very often is used like this.


Well, if revers used then it would be normal that the flow coming from Russia is zero. Wheras i dont know what Germany is able to send if the gas storages nearly empty. Maybe from Nordstream 1 and then through german gaspipe-net to Poland. No wonder that gas prices are skyrocking here...


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519007634841427969

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## Elvin

Demanding payments in Rubles essentially "saved" the Ruble, and it makes sense why the currency bounced back shortly after it took a nose dive.


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## oberschlesier

nang2 said:


> What is your bet on the answer of that "if"?


Does not matter, what they do. Russia has cut the delivery on Yamal already like 8 times during the last 20 years, and that is why Poland have build a Gas Terminal, more connections to Czechia, Germany and it`s finishing a pipeline to Norway. We can easily live without Russian Gas.

If they cut the gas, Gazprom will pay ( sooner or later ) for breaching the contract as they did in Past:
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-poland-russia-gas-idUKKBN21H343

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519016283806781442


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## Elvin

If Europe doesn't want to pay for it in Rubles, the Russians will just switch and increase exports to Asia making many Asian countries dependent on Russian energy similar to how Europe is today. That with the partnership with China can make a bi-polar world where RU-CH rule Euasia, and the West being EU, US, Canada, Aus, NZ, UK, and potentiall some Asian countries (SK, Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, etc.) and some ME countries.

Africa and South America will be fair game.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518980640074575879

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519028263259103233


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## nang2

oberschlesier said:


> Does not matter, what they do. Russia has cut the delivery on Yamal already like 8 times during the last 20 years, and that is why Poland have build a Gas Terminal, more connections to Czechia, Germany and it`s finishing a pipeline to Norway. We can easily live without Russian Gas.
> 
> If they cut the gas, Gazprom will pay ( sooner or later ) for breaching the contract as they did in Past:
> https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-poland-russia-gas-idUKKBN21H343


Then that "let see" phrase is meaningless. It is funny that you even bother saying it.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519023312722137088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519017285373280256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518948792477032448


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## oberschlesier

Elvin said:


> If Europe doesn't want to pay for it in Rubles, the Russians will just switch and increase exports to Asia making many Asian countries dependent on Russian energy similar to how Europe is today. That with the partnership with China can make a bi-polar world where RU-CH rule Euasia, and the West being EU, US, Canada, Aus, NZ, UK, and potentiall some Asian countries (SK, Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, etc.) and some ME countries.
> 
> Africa and South America will be fair game.


Russian does not have the infrastructure to export to Asia like to Europe. It needs to be build, which will take 5-10 years.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519010817869594624

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## mmr

Ich said:


> Well.
> 
> First: The gas flow was on zero. You can see it some posts before my post.
> 
> Second: If it is rumors, then i say it is rumors. So everyone can decide self.


Russia to suspend gas supplies to Poland​Published14 minutes ago
Share
Related Topics

Russia-Ukraine war





IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES
Image caption,
Poland imports gas from Gazprom via the Yamal pipeline
*Russia will stop sending gas to Poland from Wednesday, the Polish state gas company PGNiG has said.*
PGNiG said Russian energy firm Gazprom had told it all gas deliveries to the country would be halted from 08:00 CET (07:00 BST).
Gazprom has justified the suspension under new rules announced last month, which mean "unfriendly" countries must pay for gas in roubles.
PGNiG has refused to do this.
PGNiG relies on Gazprom for the majority of its gas imports and bought 53% of its imports from the Russian company in the first quarter of this year.
It described the suspension as a breach of contract, adding that the company would take steps to reinstate the flow of gas.


F*ollowing the news, Poland's climate ministry said the country's energy supplies were secure.*
Climate Minister Anna Moskwa said there was no need to draw gas from reserves and gas to customers would not be cut.
PGNiG said its underground gas storage is almost 80% full and with summer approaching demand is lower.
*Poland also has alternative supply sources, including a liquefied natural gas terminal (LNG) in Swinoujscie.
And on 1 May, a new gas pipeline connection with Lithuania is due to open that will give Poland access to gas from Lithuania's LNG terminal.
It can also buy gas on the European spot market and get it delivered through pipelines to Germany and the Czech Republic.*

However, if Russian gas supplies remain suspended for several weeks, the country will probably have to start restricting supply to the country's largest consumers, such as chemical manufacturers, the BBC's Warsaw correspondent Adam Easton said.
Replacing supplies​*Poland was already planning to stop importing Russian gas by the end of the year, when its long-term supply contract with Gazprom expires.
And a new pipeline delivering gas from Norway, known as the "Baltic Pipe", comes online in October. It should reach full capacity by the end of the year and could replace all Russian deliveries.*
Supplies from Russia account for about 40% of the EU's natural gas imports.
However, many countries have pledged to move away from Russian energy in response to its invasion of Ukraine.
The US has declared a complete ban on Russian oil, gas and coal imports.

Meanwhile, the UK is to phase out Russian oil by the end of the year, with gas to follow as soon as possible, and the EU is reducing gas imports by two-thirds.









Ukraine war: Russia halts gas exports to Poland and Bulgaria


Moscow says 'unfriendly' countries must start paying for its gas in roubles.



www.bbc.com

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## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> U.S. intel helped Ukraine protect air defenses, shoot down Russian plane carrying hundreds of troops​
> 
> As Russia launched its invasion, the U.S. gave Ukrainian forces detailed intelligence about exactly when and where Russian missiles and bombs were intended to strike, prompting Ukraine to move air defenses and aircraft out of harm's way, current and former U.S. officials told NBC News.
> 
> That near real-time intelligence-sharing also paved the way for Ukraine to shoot down a Russian transport plane carrying hundreds of troops in the early days of the war, the officials say, helping repel a Russian assault on a key airport near Kyiv.
> 
> It was part of what American officials call a massive and unprecedented intelligence-sharing operation with a non-NATO partner that they say has played a crucial role in Ukraine's success to date against the larger and better-equipped Russian military.
> 
> The details about the air defenses and the transport plane, which have not previously been reported, underscore why, two months into the war, officials assess that intelligence from U.S. spy agencies and the Pentagon has been an important factor in helping Ukraine thwart Russia's effort to seize most of the country.
> 
> "From the get-go, we leaned pretty heavily forward in sharing both strategic and actionable intelligence with Ukraine," a U.S. official briefed on the matter told NBC News. "It's been impactful both at a tactical and strategic level. There are examples where you could tell a pretty clear story that this made a major difference."
> 
> In a statement, a spokesperson for the White House National Security Council said, "We are regularly providing detailed, timely intelligence to the Ukrainians on the battlefield to help them defend their country against Russian aggression and will continue to do so."
> 
> NBC News is withholding some specific details that the network confirmed about the intelligence sharing at the request of U.S. military and intelligence officials, who say reporting on it could help the Russians shut down important sources of information.
> 
> "There has been a lot of real-time intelligence shared in terms of things that could be used for specific targeting of Russian forces," said a former senior intelligence official familiar with the situation.
> 
> The information includes commercial satellite images "but also a lot of other intelligence about, for example, where certain types of Russian units are active."
> 
> Ukraine continues to move air defenses and aircraft nearly every day with the help of American intelligence, which is one reason Russia has not been able to establish air dominance.
> 
> In some cases, Ukraine moved the targeted air defense systems or planes just in time, the officials said.
> 
> "The Russian military has literally been cratering empty fields where air defenses were once set up," one U.S. official said. "It has had an enormous impact on the Russian military's ability on the ground."
> 
> While U.S.-Ukrainian cooperation had been building since Russia seized Crimea in 2014, the Biden administration shifted into high gear in the weeks before the Russian invasion, when a U.S. military team visited to assess the state of Ukraine's air defenses.
> 
> The Americans provided Ukraine with detailed advice about how to disperse their air defense systems, a move that U.S. officials say helped Ukraine prevent Russia from seizing control of the skies.
> 
> Once the invasion got underway, lawyers in the U.S. defense and intelligence bureaucracy imposed guidance that in some cases limited the sharing of targeting information that could enable lethal Ukrainian strikes against Russians.
> 
> But as Russia's aggression has deepened, and under pressure from Congress, all of those impediments have been removed, officials say.
> 
> Earlier this month, for example, the director of National Intelligence withdrew and replaced a memo that prohibited intelligence sharing for the purposes of regaining captured territory or aiding Ukrainian strikes in Crimea or the Donbas, officials said. NBC News was first to report on the expanded sharing.
> Intel has helped Ukraine defend, and also attack​Even before the change, the U.S. had provided Ukraine with timely information enabling it to better target Russian forces.
> 
> Ukrainian forces have used specific coordinates shared by the U.S. to direct fire on Russian positions and aircraft, current and former officials tell NBC News.
> 
> Those early shoot-downs helped thwart the Russian air assault operation designed to take Hostomel Airport near Kyiv, which would have allowed the Russians to flood troops and equipment to the region around the capital. The Russians eventually took the airport for a time, but never had enough control to fly in massive amounts of equipment. That failure had a significant impact on the battle for Kyiv, U.S. officials say.
> 
> The CIA is also devoting significant resources, current and former officials say, to gathering intelligence with the aim of protecting Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, whom the Russians want to kill.
> 
> The agency is consulting with the Ukrainians on "how best to move him around, making sure that he's not co-located with his entire chain of command, things like that," a U.S. official said.
> 
> "I would say where we are at is revolutionary in terms of what we have been able to do," Army Lt. Gen. Scott Berrier, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, told Congress last month in describing the sharing of information and intelligence between the U.S. and Ukraine.
> 
> CIA Director William Burns told Congress last month that when he met with Zelenskyy in Kiev in January, "We shared with him intelligence we had at the time about some of the most graphic and concerning details of Russian planning about Kyiv as well and we've continued to do that every day since then."
> 
> White House press secretary Jen Psaki said last month that the U.S. has shared "a significant amount of detailed timely intelligence on Russia's plans and activities with the Ukrainian government to help Ukrainians defend themselves," adding that the material "includes information that should help them inform and develop their military response to Russia's invasion, that's what's happening — or has been happening."
> 
> The U.S. military and the CIA began seeking to deepen their relationships with Ukrainian counterparts after Russia seized Crimea in 2014.
> 
> The CIA first helped Ukrainian services root out Russian spies, the former senior official said, and then provided training and guidance. The U.S. military also trained Ukrainian soldiers.
> 
> "There has been a very robust relationship between U.S. intel agencies and the Ukrainians for the last eight years," the official said, adding that by the time Russia invaded two months ago, the U.S. trusted Ukraine enough to provide details of Russian troops' deployment, attack routes and real-time targeting information.
> 
> "The foreknowledge we had of Russian plans and intentions shows that our intelligence was very solid on the overall situation," said John McLaughlin, a former acting CIA director who now teaches at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies. "So just logically, if we so earnestly want them to win as we have publicly said, it only follows that we'd be giving them the results of intelligence. It would be along the lines of, 'Here's what we know — it doesn't matter how we know it.'"
> 
> One Western intelligence official noted that it's not only the intelligence that has proven decisive — it's the performance of the Ukrainians in using it. The source said Ukrainians have fought the Russians with agility and courage, and when they have received actionable intelligence, they have moved with astonishing speed.
> 
> McLaughlin said the Ukrainians have made clever use of so-called open-source intelligence — commercial satellite imagery and intercepts of Russians talking openly on unencrypted radios.
> 
> "The fact that there is so much open source [intelligence] available means that those collecting classified intelligence can focus on the things that are really hard and not publicly available."
> 
> As the Ukrainian government sees it, intelligence sharing has improved, a source familiar with the government's view told NBC News. That's as far as he would go.
> 
> "It's gotten better," he said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. intel helped Ukraine protect air defenses, shoot down Russian plane carrying hundreds of troops
> 
> 
> Ukrainian forces have used specific coordinates shared by the U.S. to direct fire on Russian positions and aircraft, current and former officials tell NBC News.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com


Wow this story again

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## oberschlesier

Ich said:


> Well, if revers used then it would be normal that the flow coming from Russia is zero. Wheras i dont know what Germany is able to send if the gas storages nearly empty. Maybe from Nordstream 1 and then through german gaspipe-net to Poland. No wonder that gas prices are skyrocking here...


The price was skyrocking already in December. Now we are more/less on the same level. I wonder if this situation was not helped by somebody.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519013593324437505

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518994458150420480


----------



## jamal18

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519017285373280256


The US will accept a neutral Ukraine? Like the offer the Russians made before the war?

So the war was unnecessary?

If true a fundamental change and a ray of hope for the end of the war.

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## nang2

oberschlesier said:


> The price was skyrocking already in December. Now we are more/less on the same level. I wonder if this situation was not helped by somebody.


You guys can always ask Americans/British to pay for some of it. You are too important for them now.

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## oberschlesier

nang2 said:


> Then that "let see" phrase is meaningless. It is funny that you even bother saying it.


Why ?
I just wonder if this is a bluff/pressure ( again ) or they will stop it completely.


----------



## Ich

oberschlesier said:


> The price was skyrocking already in December. Now we are more/less on the same level. I wonder if this situation was not helped by somebody.



Money-hungry people with no scruple and idiot politicians are in the first row...


----------



## nang2

oberschlesier said:


> Why ?
> I just wonder if this is a bluff or they will stop it completely.


You just said the answer to that "if" doesn't matter.


----------



## oberschlesier

Elvin said:


> Demanding payments in Rubles essentially "saved" the Ruble, and it makes sense why the currency bounced back shortly after it took a nose dive.



Not really, what is saving ruble is positive balance of trade and capital controls. It means, Russia is selling a lot in USD / EUR( Oil, Gas) and exchanging it into Ruble, but not buying much USD / EUR with Ruble. Does not matter who is exchanging EUR/USD -> Ruble.

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## WotTen

thetutle said:


> no its not. public opinion is irrelevant in the west in such circumstances,



True up to a point. This war is media driven and ThatGuy is right that Russian media is no match for Western media.

However, when the economic impact hits Europe, the Western media's job will become harder as the public looks for excuses to exit the war. The public will become receptive to the interpretation that Ukraine is being used by the US, and that Europe has now joined Africa and the Middle East as the meat grinder for the super powers' proxy wars.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518972184982601728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518942134438711296

Reactions: Like Like:
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## patero

Elvin said:


> Demanding payments in Rubles essentially "saved" the Ruble, and it makes sense why the currency bounced back shortly after it took a nose dive.


You obviously don't follow international markets and don't have any understanding of the situation with the Ruble. Do you know what a thin trading market is? Or the effect of Russian capital controls on the value of the currency? And which countries do you believe are paying in Rubles?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519018477620715526

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519018373081976832


----------



## oberschlesier

nang2 said:


> You just said the answer to that "if" doesn't matter.


It does not matter for the Polish energy security. It`s interesting to observe if this is another bluff.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519036292159488000


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Spoiler: Graphic - Elite Ukrainians paratroopers were destroyed in their fortified positions





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519017455145951239

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518992202390724611



There are more dead Ukrainian forces but I didn't want to post them since the images are too graphic.


----------



## nang2

oberschlesier said:


> It does not matter for the Polish energy security. It`s interesting to observe if this is another bluff.


Sure. We will see soon enough. It seems Poland isn't the only one in the plan. Other parts of Europe are also in it.









Russia's Gazprom to halt gas supplies through Bulgaria as of 27 April


Russian state-owned gas supplier Gazprom is to halt supplies going through Bulgaria into Europe as of Wednesday 27 April, Bloomberg reported on Tuesda




www.fxstreet.com

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## Foinikas

Rheinmetall proposes 80 Leopard 1 and 100 Marder to Ukraine


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519021596551307264

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518939344404373504
Gotta head back to work; but after 6PM EST, I shall be back and bring the usual posts about the "Denazification" of Ukraine.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519012529262977024

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519019417736302594


----------



## Ich

Now also stop of gas delivery to Bulgaria tomorrow.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519015019865853957


----------



## Ali_Baba

The West has successfully called Vladimir Putin’s bluff​








The West has successfully called Vladimir Putin’s bluff


Nato's assertion of escalation dominance by stealth has helped the Ukrainians check the Russians and to contain the war




www.telegraph.co.uk





"Almost imperceptibly, the Russians have conceded escalation dominance to Nato. "


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519018554871496706


----------



## Soldier35

Russian troops launched a missile attack on the railway bridge in Zatoka, Odessa region. As a result of the missile strike, the bridge from Zatoka towards Belgorod-Dnestrovsky was closed. The bridge was used to supply fuel from Moldova to the Ukrainian army. Also, warships of the Russian Navy launched a series of strikes on targets on the coast of the Odessa region.






The units of the Russian Armed Forces took control of a large base for the storage and repair of equipment left by the Ukrainian army. A large amount of Ukrainian military equipment was captured, about 100 units in total. Among the trophies of the air defense "Tunguska", air defense "Shilka", radar stations, means for servicing military equipment. In the hangar there were workshops for the repair and restoration of damaged Ukrainian equipment.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517224179656966145

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516020251502477313

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517311909212557312


----------



## Elvin

oberschlesier said:


> Russian does not have the infrastructure to export to Asia like to Europe. It needs to be build, which will take 5-10 years.



It has some but will need to build more, obviously they will do it now since the EU has initiated work to decouple from Russian energy ad much as possible which too will take years.



patero said:


> You obviously don't follow international markets and don't have any understanding of the situation with the Ruble. Do you know what a thin trading market is? Or the effect of Russian capital controls on the value of the currency? And which countries do you believe are paying in Rubles?



Are you saying there is no economic benefit for RF to request payments for its energy in Rubles?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518895428892336128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518894556799979520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518863614261841921

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518889360581697538


----------



## jamal18

Col. Richard Black (US). Giving an excellent view of Syria and current events. Mind blowing coming from an American officer. About 1 hr.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518890218555904001

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518890647297613825


----------



## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> U.S. intel helped Ukraine protect air defenses, shoot down Russian plane carrying hundreds of troops​
> 
> As Russia launched its invasion, the U.S. gave Ukrainian forces detailed intelligence about exactly when and where Russian missiles and bombs were intended to strike, prompting Ukraine to move air defenses and aircraft out of harm's way, current and former U.S. officials told NBC News.
> 
> That near real-time intelligence-sharing also paved the way for Ukraine to shoot down a Russian transport plane carrying hundreds of troops in the early days of the war, the officials say, helping repel a Russian assault on a key airport near Kyiv.
> 
> It was part of what American officials call a massive and unprecedented intelligence-sharing operation with a non-NATO partner that they say has played a crucial role in Ukraine's success to date against the larger and better-equipped Russian military.
> 
> The details about the air defenses and the transport plane, which have not previously been reported, underscore why, two months into the war, officials assess that intelligence from U.S. spy agencies and the Pentagon has been an important factor in helping Ukraine thwart Russia's effort to seize most of the country.
> 
> "From the get-go, we leaned pretty heavily forward in sharing both strategic and actionable intelligence with Ukraine," a U.S. official briefed on the matter told NBC News. "It's been impactful both at a tactical and strategic level. There are examples where you could tell a pretty clear story that this made a major difference."
> 
> In a statement, a spokesperson for the White House National Security Council said, "We are regularly providing detailed, timely intelligence to the Ukrainians on the battlefield to help them defend their country against Russian aggression and will continue to do so."
> 
> NBC News is withholding some specific details that the network confirmed about the intelligence sharing at the request of U.S. military and intelligence officials, who say reporting on it could help the Russians shut down important sources of information.
> 
> "There has been a lot of real-time intelligence shared in terms of things that could be used for specific targeting of Russian forces," said a former senior intelligence official familiar with the situation.
> 
> The information includes commercial satellite images "but also a lot of other intelligence about, for example, where certain types of Russian units are active."
> 
> Ukraine continues to move air defenses and aircraft nearly every day with the help of American intelligence, which is one reason Russia has not been able to establish air dominance.
> 
> In some cases, Ukraine moved the targeted air defense systems or planes just in time, the officials said.
> 
> "The Russian military has literally been cratering empty fields where air defenses were once set up," one U.S. official said. "It has had an enormous impact on the Russian military's ability on the ground."
> 
> While U.S.-Ukrainian cooperation had been building since Russia seized Crimea in 2014, the Biden administration shifted into high gear in the weeks before the Russian invasion, when a U.S. military team visited to assess the state of Ukraine's air defenses.
> 
> The Americans provided Ukraine with detailed advice about how to disperse their air defense systems, a move that U.S. officials say helped Ukraine prevent Russia from seizing control of the skies.
> 
> Once the invasion got underway, lawyers in the U.S. defense and intelligence bureaucracy imposed guidance that in some cases limited the sharing of targeting information that could enable lethal Ukrainian strikes against Russians.
> 
> But as Russia's aggression has deepened, and under pressure from Congress, all of those impediments have been removed, officials say.
> 
> Earlier this month, for example, the director of National Intelligence withdrew and replaced a memo that prohibited intelligence sharing for the purposes of regaining captured territory or aiding Ukrainian strikes in Crimea or the Donbas, officials said. NBC News was first to report on the expanded sharing.
> Intel has helped Ukraine defend, and also attack​Even before the change, the U.S. had provided Ukraine with timely information enabling it to better target Russian forces.
> 
> Ukrainian forces have used specific coordinates shared by the U.S. to direct fire on Russian positions and aircraft, current and former officials tell NBC News.
> 
> Those early shoot-downs helped thwart the Russian air assault operation designed to take Hostomel Airport near Kyiv, which would have allowed the Russians to flood troops and equipment to the region around the capital. The Russians eventually took the airport for a time, but never had enough control to fly in massive amounts of equipment. That failure had a significant impact on the battle for Kyiv, U.S. officials say.
> 
> The CIA is also devoting significant resources, current and former officials say, to gathering intelligence with the aim of protecting Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, whom the Russians want to kill.
> 
> The agency is consulting with the Ukrainians on "how best to move him around, making sure that he's not co-located with his entire chain of command, things like that," a U.S. official said.
> 
> "I would say where we are at is revolutionary in terms of what we have been able to do," Army Lt. Gen. Scott Berrier, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, told Congress last month in describing the sharing of information and intelligence between the U.S. and Ukraine.
> 
> CIA Director William Burns told Congress last month that when he met with Zelenskyy in Kiev in January, "We shared with him intelligence we had at the time about some of the most graphic and concerning details of Russian planning about Kyiv as well and we've continued to do that every day since then."
> 
> White House press secretary Jen Psaki said last month that the U.S. has shared "a significant amount of detailed timely intelligence on Russia's plans and activities with the Ukrainian government to help Ukrainians defend themselves," adding that the material "includes information that should help them inform and develop their military response to Russia's invasion, that's what's happening — or has been happening."
> 
> The U.S. military and the CIA began seeking to deepen their relationships with Ukrainian counterparts after Russia seized Crimea in 2014.
> 
> The CIA first helped Ukrainian services root out Russian spies, the former senior official said, and then provided training and guidance. The U.S. military also trained Ukrainian soldiers.
> 
> "There has been a very robust relationship between U.S. intel agencies and the Ukrainians for the last eight years," the official said, adding that by the time Russia invaded two months ago, the U.S. trusted Ukraine enough to provide details of Russian troops' deployment, attack routes and real-time targeting information.
> 
> "The foreknowledge we had of Russian plans and intentions shows that our intelligence was very solid on the overall situation," said John McLaughlin, a former acting CIA director who now teaches at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies. "So just logically, if we so earnestly want them to win as we have publicly said, it only follows that we'd be giving them the results of intelligence. It would be along the lines of, 'Here's what we know — it doesn't matter how we know it.'"
> 
> One Western intelligence official noted that it's not only the intelligence that has proven decisive — it's the performance of the Ukrainians in using it. The source said Ukrainians have fought the Russians with agility and courage, and when they have received actionable intelligence, they have moved with astonishing speed.
> 
> McLaughlin said the Ukrainians have made clever use of so-called open-source intelligence — commercial satellite imagery and intercepts of Russians talking openly on unencrypted radios.
> 
> "The fact that there is so much open source [intelligence] available means that those collecting classified intelligence can focus on the things that are really hard and not publicly available."
> 
> As the Ukrainian government sees it, intelligence sharing has improved, a source familiar with the government's view told NBC News. That's as far as he would go.
> 
> "It's gotten better," he said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. intel helped Ukraine protect air defenses, shoot down Russian plane carrying hundreds of troops
> 
> 
> Ukrainian forces have used specific coordinates shared by the U.S. to direct fire on Russian positions and aircraft, current and former officials tell NBC News.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com


CIA doing its part i guess


----------



## Solidify

8 heavy armored vehicles dispatch from Canada to Ukraine - how much impact will these have on Russian forces advancing ?


----------



## patero

Elvin said:


> Are you saying there is no economic benefit for RF to request payments for its energy in Rubles?


It's probably more accurate to say there is no difference whether the payments are made in Rubles or Euros/USD, the only change it makes is the order in which the currency is exchanged between vendor (ie Gazprom) and the Russian central bank. Not that it matters, no 'unfriendly' country has agreed to pay in Rubles.

The primary reason the Ruble has recovered its value is that virtually nobody is trading it, that is what is meant by a thin market. Russia is using capitol controls to prop up the value of the Ruble, it's relatively easy to accomplish this in a thin market. The price of the Ruble at this point is entirely artificial, they can make it whatever they want to if nobody is trading it. What is more important is the trading volume of the Ruble, which is just about completely dead, indicating a massive problem for the future of Russian industry and the economy.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518913995817824256


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## nangyale

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518939344404373504
> Gotta head back to work; but after 6PM EST, I shall be back and bring the usual posts about the "Denazification" of Ukraine.


Have a good day at work.

Thanks for your untiring efforts in debunking the Western propaganda here.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Elvin

patero said:


> It's probably more accurate to say there is no difference whether the payments are made in Rubles or Euros/USD, the only change it makes is the order in which the currency is exchanged between vendor (ie Gazprom) and the Russian central bank. Not that it matters, no 'unfriendly' country has agreed to pay in Rubles.
> 
> The primary reason the Ruble has recovered its value is that virtually nobody is trading it, that is what is meant by a thin market. Russia is using capitol controls to prop up the value of the Ruble, it's relatively easy to accomplish this in a thin market. The price of the Ruble at this point is entirely artificial, they can make it whatever they want to if nobody is trading it. What is more important is the trading volume of the Ruble, which is just about completely dead, indicating a massive problem for the future of Russian industry and the economy.



So having energy payments settle in Rubles makes no difference and brings no benefit. 👍

Do you think having such energy payments settle in the Ruble in future may impact the currency? Or add leverage to the Russian central bank? And or bring any benefit?

The presence of a ruble clause for Russian energy exports means that importers must buy rubles to pay Russian exporters. Since there are currently limited amounts of rubles available on foreign currency markets, the main way of getting hold of them is to buy them from the Russian central bank at a price (the exchange rate) set by the central bank.

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## Paul2

thetutle said:


> there aren't many places in the world like this. It was built to produce steel probably after a nuclear war with USA.
> 
> number dont look good for Israel either. but look at it.
> 
> Russia is 140 million but USA, Canada, Australia, UK, EU is 900 milion.
> 
> So even 1,3 billion impoverished Chinese join the fight, Russia is still behind. But china is not as stupid as you think.
> 
> Why not? they want freedom.
> 
> the western world can supply all of the above.
> 
> has anyone asked you or me what we think? no, our governments provide arms to Ukraine regardless of what we think.
> 
> no its not. public opinion is irrelevant in the west in such circumstances,



Look it up 









2S5 Giatsint-S - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





There are no other operators than Ukraine, and Russia now. They are very old. A dedicated long range, counterbattery weapon.


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## nang2

Elvin said:


> So having energy payments settle in Rubles makes no difference and brings no benefit. 👍
> 
> Do you think having such energy payments settle in the Ruble in future may impact the currency? Or add leverage to the Russian central bank? And or bring any benefit?
> 
> The presence of a ruble clause for Russian energy exports means that importers must buy rubles to pay Russian exporters. Since there are currently limited amounts of rubles available on foreign currency markets, the main way of getting hold of them is to buy them from the Russian central bank at a price (the exchange rate) set by the central bank.


Of course it brings benefits. All exports are eventually for imports and vice versa. Demanding payments for export in ruble means it can pay imports with ruble, since that is how people outside Russia get rubles to pay for Russian exports. It is always a plus to be able to pay imports with your own currency. Look how America is enjoying it.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## patero

Elvin said:


> So having energy payments settle in Rubles makes no difference and brings no benefit. 👍
> 
> Do you think having such energy payments settle in the Ruble in future may impact the currency? Or add leverage to the Russian central bank? And or bring any benefit?
> 
> The presence of a ruble clause for Russian energy exports means that importers must buy rubles to pay Russian exporters. Since there are currently limited amounts of rubles available on foreign currency markets, the main way of getting hold of them is to buy them from the Russian central bank at a price (the exchange rate) set by the central bank.


Correct. So either a foreign customer pays Gazprom for gas using USD/Euros, who then exchanges their USD/Euros for Rubles with the Russian central bank, or the foreign customer buys rubles from the Russian central bank with Euros/USD then settles its transaction with Gazprom in Rubles. Either way the end result is the same: the foreign customer gets its gas, Gazprom gets Rubles and the Russian central bank gets USD/Euros.

The impact on the currency price is the same either way (negligible) because the contracts are fixed on a forward rate so are already priced in.

Putins play to insist on payment in Rubles could be a ploy to cancel contracts and sign new contracts at higher prices, which if successful would also lift the ruble. But that is a whole other debate that is beyond me, I'd have to ask an energy industry analyst with specialized knowledge in this area (meaning I'd have to find one).


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## Paul2

Back, and forth in the no man's land in between Kherson, and Mikolaiv continues.

Russians took Novopetrivka in the morning, then fell back at the sound of artillery fire. Ukrainian troops entered the village 8 hours ago, and found no enemy presence.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Paul2

50-60 pieces of armour push in Hulyaipole direction went a few kms, and was shelled continuously until it scattered hiding in defilades

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## PakAlp

Is a new front opening up in Moldova breakaway region? @The SC @Ich @Hassan Al-Somal









Russia’s war in Ukraine threatens to spill over in dangerous new phase


Analysis: Mysterious explosions in Moldova raise possibility of new Putin gambit after early failures




www.theguardian.com













Moldova raises terror threat level after blasts in pro-Russian Transnistria region


The Kremlin says it is concerned by the explosions in the unrecognised Moscow-backed region




www.independent.co.uk













Ukraine war: Russia says it is 'engaged in war' with NATO and tells the West to stop supplying weapons to Ukraine


The Kremlin warned against provoking a third world war and said the threat of a nuclear conflict "should not be underestimated".




news.sky.com













NATO fighting proxy war with Russia and it could turn nuclear: Lavrov


Sergei Lavrov, speaking on Russian state TV last night, said tensions between east and west are now worse than during the Cuban missile crisis at the height of the Cold War.




www.dailymail.co.uk


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515895350485295106

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514879288939585542

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517830342392037381

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516759040709255180

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516567201993613312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518142318787837952

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hallian_Khan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519060942381793286

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood



Reactions: Like Like:
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## RoadAmerica

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Iskander artillery continues to pummel Ukrainian ground targets
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518844231086977024
> Su-25 ground attack jets continue to pummel Ukrainian ground targets
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518792495374778370
> 
> 
> In retaliation China will openly join the war and pummel Ukraine and Taiwan.


Are you high? China join the war, there is zero strategic advantage for China joining the war. And take Taiwan, I think they’re crapping their pants after seeing how the west responded to Russia. 
They might as well claim the moon while they’re at it in this dream.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518787412620726273


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1518415120447246337





https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1517832144818688000





https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1518142658421612546





https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1518051638950469633





https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1517294510241464321


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## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Wood said:


>



Gepard self propelled short range air defense is easy target for Russian armed drones


----------



## K_Bin_W

RoadAmerica said:


> Are you high? China join the war, there is zero strategic advantage for China joining the war. And take Taiwan, I think they’re crapping their pants after seeing how the west responded to Russia.
> They might as well claim the moon while they’re at it in this dream.


Crapping thier pants.. LOL, Even India did not gave a shyt for that I really salute em.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RoadAmerica

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It was Putin who tied the military's hands. He wanted Ukraine to accept his demands without much destruction on Ukraine. This is the reason that Putin still calls it "Special Military Operation" and not a war. Declaring war means mobilizing the entire country and gearing all resources towards that end.
> 
> Nevertheless, Russia has already achieved destroying the Ukrainian energy, communication, and arms industry centers, and liberated a section of Donbas. They're gradually moving to seize the rest of Donbas and the rest of Southern Ukraine including Odessa. And to achieve these objectives, the destruction of Uktrainian transport infrastructure comes into the picture.
> 
> You can see below Russian armed forces liberating the city of Kremennaya in LPR (Luhansk People's Republic). And from this win in this city, it is clear the Russian armed forces are gradually achieving their objectives.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518917436040519680


So they just had a draft 2 weeks ago, but that’s not mobilizing the country? 🤷🏿‍♂️



K_Bin_W said:


> Crapping thier pants.. LOL, Even India did not gave a shyt for that I really salute em.


I guess China should just go reclaim Taiwan then huh?


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

The US Administration is upset that people do occasionally tells the truth and they gets censored.


----------



## khansaheeb

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518405395315933185
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518406080090492931


Wow , seems like NATO has secretly entered the war and firing at Russia.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

*Now Zalensky and the Pentagon admitted that the Turkish TB2 that found its fame during the Azerbaijan and Armenia war is ineffective against the Russia forces.*

Not surprising even the Switchblades drones supplied by the US is equally ineffective and hopeless.

And it seems the US are now supplying the *Pheonix Ghost drones *which IMO will share the same fate.

Jammed and disabled by Russia forces.

It seems the many Switchblades drones has been captured by Russia.

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## That Guy

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *Now Zalensky and the Pentagon admitted that the Turkish TB2 that found its fame during the Azerbaijan and Armenia war is ineffective against the Russia forces.*
> 
> Not surprising even the Switchblades drones supplied by the US is equally ineffective and hopeless.
> 
> And it seems the US are now supplying the *Pheonix Ghost drones *which IMO will share the same fate.
> 
> Jammed and disabled by Russia forces.
> 
> It seems the many Switchblades drones has been captured by Russia.


Not what Zelensky actually said, but you do you, boo.


----------



## K_Bin_W

RoadAmerica said:


> So they just had a draft 2 weeks ago, but that’s not mobilizing the country? 🤷🏿‍♂️
> 
> 
> I guess China should just go reclaim Taiwan then huh?



Let Taiwan declare full independence and become a full-fledge UN member. please call Chinas bluff.... please...


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

It seems Ukraine is now trying to provoke and draw Moldova into the war.

Russia maintains a military base in the Transnistria in Moldova.

The people there are mainly ethnic Russians.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RoadAmerica

CAPRICORN-88 said:


>


Fat boy is back, once again he’s not fighting anything. 
Care to tell me where you’re from yet? I think I’ve been patient for 40+ pages, no?
I ask because you sure like to throw rocks at the west, I can’t wait for the big reveal.



K_Bin_W said:


> Let Taiwan declare full independence and become a full-fledge UN member. please call Chinas bluff.... please...


Oh please, I thought they’re so big and confident. 
Just proving my point.


----------



## That Guy

WotTen said:


> You wrote "Might makes right" and I wrote that you were "Wrong".
> 
> Then, *AFTER* I wrote about the importance of media narrative in the modern world, you changed your tune to say the West had won the media narrative. *AFTER*. Your initial position was that it was all about "Might makes right".
> 
> You still don't understand that my comment was about how the latest statement from Lloyd Austin changes the US media narrative. Here is some context
> 
> _Austin took his comments further, saying that the US wants “to see Russia weakened to the point where it can’t do things like invade Ukraine”.
> 
> Previously, the US position had been that the goal of American military aid was to help Ukraine win and to defend Ukraine’s NATO neighbours against Russian threats._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin’s foreign minister says the risk of nuclear war ‘is serious’
> 
> 
> Russia’s top diplomat warns the west against provoking “world war III” in a television interview where he lashed out at US claims that Putin’s army was failing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.smh.com.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the Western media will do damage control and restore the narrative that this war is really about Ukraine, not any ulterior US motive, but it shows why military men should focus on military matters and let diplomats handle the media narrative.


Lmao. Way to keep going back and forth.

You've indirectly admitted that your "wrong" declaration was dumb, because you STILL refuse to show me how I'm wrong, b

You arbitrarily adding shit on to your comments, and hoping people who smell the bullshit coming off of it isn't working.

Even your current comment still proves me right, because in the end, most of the world and relevant states are still with the US and EU.

It doesn't matter what Lloyd Austin says, he could literally say the US just wants to see the two fight because it's fun, and literally nothing would change, but Russia has already lost the narrative war.

Your constant changing of the goal post doesn't matter much.


----------



## mmr

RoadAmerica said:


> Are you high? China join the war, there is zero strategic advantage for China joining the war. And take Taiwan, I think they’re crapping their pants after seeing how the west responded to Russia.
> They might as well claim the moon while they’re at it in this dream.


Exactly.



K_Bin_W said:


> Crapping thier pants.. LOL, Even India did not gave a shyt for that I really salute em.


India doing what is good for them. When it comes to china...india will work with west.


----------



## K_Bin_W

RoadAmerica said:


> Fat boy is back, once again he’s not fighting anything.
> Care to tell me where you’re from yet? I think I’ve been patient for 40+ pages, no?
> I ask because you sure like to throw rocks at the west, I can’t wait for the big reveal.
> 
> 
> Oh please, I thought they’re so big and confident.
> Just proving my point.


You prove nothing except lot of noise.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

​US sending attack-focused ‘Ghost’ drones to Ukraine in new US$800 million weapons package​
The unmanned vehicles have similar but distinct capabilities to the Switchblade drones already provided, which target both Russian personnel and tanks
The drones were expedited to aid against Moscow’s invasion, and were rapidly developed specifically to meet Ukrainian requirements

*The above corroborated with the reports of an admission by Zalensky that the TB2 and switchblades Drones are ineffective. *

It is also a well known fact that Zalensky starts his day with stimulant drugs like pep. He is an addict now. 

*Why bother to despatch the latest Pheonix Ghost if the Switchblades are so effective? 

Does not make any sense? *

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## WotTen

That Guy said:


> Lmao. Way to keep going back and forth.
> 
> You've indirectly admitted that your "wrong" declaration was dumb, because you STILL refuse to show me how I'm wrong, b
> 
> You arbitrarily adding shit on to your comments, and hoping people who smell the bullshit coming off of it isn't working.
> 
> Even your current comment still proves me right, because in the end, most of the world and relevant states are still with the US and EU.
> 
> It doesn't matter what Lloyd Austin says, he could literally say the US just wants to see the two fight because it's fun, and literally nothing would change, but Russia has already lost the narrative war.
> 
> Your constant changing of the goal post doesn't matter much.



People can read the thread and decide who wrote what when.


----------



## khansaheeb

WotTen said:


> "There must be a Nuremberg 2 for Putin and all other Russian war criminals."
> 
> They can take a ticket and stand in line behind Dubya and Obomber.


The list is long , war criminals should be dealt with from which ever country they are from, no person or country should be beyond the universal law of justice.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Over in here, some trolls are getting personal. 

It is like saying that

*PRO-TRUTH is equal to anti-USA.*

But unfortunately truth is what most educated folks wants to hear and not fake news. 

They can determine for themselves what is real and unreal. 

Ukraine is not a football match.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

NATO-donated arms to Ukrainians are finding themselves to the LPR and DNR hands endlessly as trophies and ghanima! 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519060942381793286


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

April 25, 202211:04 PM GMT+8Last Updated a day ago

Business
Russian rouble hits near 2-year high vs euro​
April 25 (Reuters) - The Russian rouble strengthened on Monday, firming past 77 against the euro to a near two-year high, helped by tax payments that companies are due to make this week and as the market looked ahead to a central bank rate decision on Friday.

Reporting by Reuters; Editing by Kenneth Maxwell and Toby Chopra


Didn't the trolls in here said, Russia economy is collapsing?

That is understandable due to their limited understanding of how Russia economy actually works and its strength and resilience.

They thought and believe that a US engineered default by Russia will destroyed her.

While these payments were due in U.S. dollars, Russia was blocked from accessing dollar holdings in U.S. banks as a result of sanctions.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519015019865853957




I was just watching CNN, and they had former General David H. Petraeus who was a former head of the CIA and US central command as a guest. He's stated there are huge Russian military reinforcements coming to Donbas. He wasn't optimistic about the Ukrainians holding their line. It looks like this talk of the West accepting the Ukrainian neutrality is designed to prevent the Russians from seizing the entire Donbas and South of Ukraine. In other words, these negotiations are designed to prevent Russian military victory.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I was just watching CNN, and they had former General David H. Petraeus who was a former head of the CIA and US central command as a guest. He's stated there are huge Russian military reinforcements coming to Donbas. He wasn't optimistic about the Ukrainians holding their line. It looks like this talk of the West accepting the Ukrainian neutrality is designed to prevent the Russians from seizing the entire Donbas and South of Ukraine. In other words, these negotiations are designed to prevent Russian military victory.


The only obstacle is Russia does not trusts Zalensky and all these proposal of talks is to buy him more time.

Russia as per Sergei Lavrov believes Zalensky cannot make any decision on his own as he is just a puppet of the US and NATO. 

And I don't blame Russia. 
Look at what happened to the peace talks in Turkey. A complete waste of time.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

nangyale said:


> Have a good day at work.
> 
> Thanks for your untiring efforts in debunking the Western propaganda here.



Thanks bro.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Russia to Cut Gas to Poland and Bulgaria, Making Energy a Weapon​
Focus now turns to how other European capitals will respond
Moscow demands gas be paid for in rubles after new decree

By
Maciej Onoszko,
Maciej Martewicz, and
Slav Okov
April 26, 2022, 11:20 PM GMT+8Updated onApril 27, 2022, 4:18 AM GMT+8

Russia will cut off the gas to Poland and Bulgaria on Wednesday in a major escalation in the standoff between Moscow and Europe over energy supplies and the war in Ukraine.
Moscow is making good on a threat to halt gas flows to countries that refuse President Vladimir Putin’s new demand to pay for the fuel in rubles. *The European Union has rejected the move in principle but now payment deadlines are starting to fall due,* governments across Europe need to decide whether to accept Putin’s terms or lose crucial supplies -- and face the prospect of energy rationing.
*European gas prices surged as much as 17% as traders calculated the risk of other European countries being hit next.*


“This is a turning point that has been accelerated by Russia today,” said Piotr Naimski, Poland’s top official for strategic energy infrastructure.

Share of natural gas imports coming from Russia, 2020​

Sources: Eurostat, U.S. Energy Information Administration, Austria's Ministry of Climate Protection
Note: Data for 2020 are not available for the U.K. and Bosnia-Herzegovina, 2019 data are shown in those countries. Norway imported 10 million cubic meters of gas from Russia in 2020, but as a net exporter is not dependent on Russian imports.

The threat of cutoffs has been looming for weeks, but there was an indication last week that the EU was suggesting a potential way out of the standoff. The move against bloc members Poland and Bulgaria probably makes some kind of compromise less likely. It also removes from the EU’s toolkit the option of sanctioning Russian gas.

“The decision of Russia to stop gas supplies to Poland and Bulgaria represents an historical turning point in the bilateral energy relationship and might well represent the preview of similar moves coming up vis-a-vis other European countries in coming weeks,” said Simone Tagliapietra, a researcher at the Bruegel think tank. “European governments now need to deploy all emergency measures they have at their disposal, both on the supply and demand side to ensure security of supply.”

Payment Schedules​The first ruble payments are due in late April and May, though companies’ individual payment schedules have not been disclosed. Polish news outlet Onet.pl reported earlier that the deadline for Poland’s main gas company PGNiG’s fell on Friday, and Gazprom said on Tuesday the payment was due immediately.


Other companies have more time and European governments and executives are in many cases still trying to figure out how best to respond. The EU last week suggested that companies continue to pay in euros, and seek possible exemptions from Moscow to the decree.

The decree demands companies set up two accounts, one in a foreign currency and one in rubles, with Gazprombank. The Russian bank would convert the foreign currency payments into rubles before transferring the payment to Gazprom PJSC, the state-owned gas company.

“The Polish example suggests that those buyers that will not accept the new mechanism or will not secure an exemption from it are likely to see their supplies cut as well if no payment has reached Gazprom’s account when it is due,” Yafimava said.

Continue..

Bloomberg

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519010817869594624




This is the reason why the West is panicking. The Russian missile and aerial assaults on bridges and railways plus the troops freed from Mariupol have shown the West that they're in a losing game.

Second, the Ukrainian forces on the front-line are collapsing as relentless Russian aerial assaults are having a huge impact.

Lastly, there is a division within NATO camp on how far they want to push it. Germany and France don't seem to be enthusiastic about prolonged conflict, plus Switzerland, Hungry, and Austria are also maintaining their neutrality. the Russians themselves are also not only fighting on the military front, but they're starting to use their energy exports to inflict pain on the West. We're already seeing the cracks in the Western camp.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518886413797892097


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518886413797892097



Makes sense. Germany and France is what EU is all about. The eastern European countries are nothing but cannon fodder.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519142000133615616

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## RoadAmerica

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519142000133615616


Just a special fire, move along nothing to see.

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## Meengla

Elvin said:


> It is interesting to see how the big powers in Europe split Eastern Europe into zones of interest. Romania and Moldova was given to France, hence why most Romanian companies were sold to French companies, and now this. Nice to see them being obvious about it.


Ultimately, all wars about $$$. We find out years or decades later who benefited and how. And we sure will find out about this war too. But what damn tribal people! In case of countries like India and Pakistan, with their ethnic diversity, there would be probably 200+ countries in India and Pakistan's geographical borders if nationalism were to go to such extremes as in Europe! Maybe some who above made the right point: Uncle Sam's NATO is needed to keep the European tribalism in check!



WotTen said:


> True up to a point. This war is media driven and ThatGuy is right that Russian media is no match for Western media.
> 
> However, when the economic impact hits Europe, the Western media's job will become harder as the public looks for excuses to exit the war. The public will become receptive to the interpretation that Ukraine is being used by the US, and that Europe has now joined Africa and the Middle East as the meat grinder for the super powers' proxy wars.



Europe--which would be nothing without Germany and France-- could yet again become a pawn in the hands of the Anglos. Colonel Macgregor keeps saying that. 



CAPRICORN-88 said:


> The only obstacle is Russia does not trusts Zalensky and all these proposal of talks is to buy him more time.
> 
> Russia as per Sergei Lavrov believes Zalensky cannot make any decision on his own as he is just a puppet of the US and NATO.
> 
> And I don't blame Russia.
> Look at what happened to the peace talks in Turkey. A complete waste of time.



Zelensky has real time intelligence data, special troops protecting him, while hiding deep down in some bunker a lot of time and media people projecting him as some modern day Che Guevara with rough appearance, simple clothes and the new beard. A very carefully crafted image!! But he is so self assured only because he knows who are his backers: The mightiest and the richest military alliance in human history. Remove that from his backing and see.... He would have almost certainly ran away within a short time or would have meted the fate of President Amin when the Soviets started invasion of Afghanistan around Christmas 1979...

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## WotTen

Meengla said:


> Europe--which would be nothing without Germany and France-- could yet again become a pawn in the hands of the Anglos. Colonel Macgregor keeps saying that.



It is working right now and will continue for a while but European nationalism will reassert itself sooner or later. The whole entire point of the EU, led by Germany and France, was to make Europe independent of the US post WW2.

The US diplomats have their work cut out for them being the actual boss but making France and Germany think they are masters of their own destiny.

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## mmr

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Russia to Cut Gas to Poland and Bulgaria, Making Energy a Weapon​
> Focus now turns to how other European capitals will respond
> Moscow demands gas be paid for in rubles after new decree
> 
> By
> Maciej Onoszko,
> Maciej Martewicz, and
> Slav Okov
> April 26, 2022, 11:20 PM GMT+8Updated onApril 27, 2022, 4:18 AM GMT+8
> 
> Russia will cut off the gas to Poland and Bulgaria on Wednesday in a major escalation in the standoff between Moscow and Europe over energy supplies and the war in Ukraine.
> Moscow is making good on a threat to halt gas flows to countries that refuse President Vladimir Putin’s new demand to pay for the fuel in rubles. *The European Union has rejected the move in principle but now payment deadlines are starting to fall due,* governments across Europe need to decide whether to accept Putin’s terms or lose crucial supplies -- and face the prospect of energy rationing.
> *European gas prices surged as much as 17% as traders calculated the risk of other European countries being hit next.*
> 
> 
> “This is a turning point that has been accelerated by Russia today,” said Piotr Naimski, Poland’s top official for strategic energy infrastructure.
> 
> Share of natural gas imports coming from Russia, 2020​
> 
> Sources: Eurostat, U.S. Energy Information Administration, Austria's Ministry of Climate Protection
> Note: Data for 2020 are not available for the U.K. and Bosnia-Herzegovina, 2019 data are shown in those countries. Norway imported 10 million cubic meters of gas from Russia in 2020, but as a net exporter is not dependent on Russian imports.
> 
> The threat of cutoffs has been looming for weeks, but there was an indication last week that the EU was suggesting a potential way out of the standoff. The move against bloc members Poland and Bulgaria probably makes some kind of compromise less likely. It also removes from the EU’s toolkit the option of sanctioning Russian gas.
> 
> “The decision of Russia to stop gas supplies to Poland and Bulgaria represents an historical turning point in the bilateral energy relationship and might well represent the preview of similar moves coming up vis-a-vis other European countries in coming weeks,” said Simone Tagliapietra, a researcher at the Bruegel think tank. “European governments now need to deploy all emergency measures they have at their disposal, both on the supply and demand side to ensure security of supply.”
> 
> Payment Schedules​The first ruble payments are due in late April and May, though companies’ individual payment schedules have not been disclosed. Polish news outlet Onet.pl reported earlier that the deadline for Poland’s main gas company PGNiG’s fell on Friday, and Gazprom said on Tuesday the payment was due immediately.
> 
> 
> Other companies have more time and European governments and executives are in many cases still trying to figure out how best to respond. The EU last week suggested that companies continue to pay in euros, and seek possible exemptions from Moscow to the decree.
> 
> The decree demands companies set up two accounts, one in a foreign currency and one in rubles, with Gazprombank. The Russian bank would convert the foreign currency payments into rubles before transferring the payment to Gazprom PJSC, the state-owned gas company.
> 
> “The Polish example suggests that those buyers that will not accept the new mechanism or will not secure an exemption from it are likely to see their supplies cut as well if no payment has reached Gazprom’s account when it is due,” Yafimava said.
> 
> Continue..
> 
> Bloomberg


lol nice

so no one want to pay in toilet currency i guess



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519142000133615616


nato has to keep helping ukraine to carry attach inside russia



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> This is the reason why the West is panicking. The Russian missile and aerial assaults on bridges and railways plus the troops freed from Mariupol have shown the West that they're in a losing game.
> 
> Second, the Ukrainian forces on the front-line are collapsing as relentless Russian aerial assaults are having a huge impact.
> 
> Lastly, there is a division within NATO camp on how far they want to push it. Germany and France don't seem to be enthusiastic about prolonged conflict, plus Switzerland, Hungry, and Austria are also maintaining their neutrality. the Russians themselves are also not only fighting on the military front, but they're starting to use their energy exports to inflict pain on the West. We're already seeing the cracks in the Western camp.


let us know the drugs u taking ha ha

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518886413797892097


Germany recently gives Ukraine 2 billion euros. That’s not little. The reason why Germany is hesitant in providing mass of tanks and artillery is Olaf Scholz. he is a weakling.


----------



## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519142000133615616


Maybe a rainfall ignites the fire.

Or maybe the works of belarus partisans.

They are active in destroying russian infrastructures.

https://globalnews.ca/news/8700070/...their-governments-support-of-russian-war/amp/

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## Oldman1

sms said:


> Any thing with range longer than 300km will be the violation of set world order and MTCR?


Yes but 300km is really sufficient for Ukraine's needs in this war. All the Russian supply depots and fuel would be within range because Russia needs them close to the war.



PakAlp said:


> Is a new front opening up in Moldova breakaway region? @The SC @Ich @Hassan Al-Somal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia’s war in Ukraine threatens to spill over in dangerous new phase
> 
> 
> Analysis: Mysterious explosions in Moldova raise possibility of new Putin gambit after early failures
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moldova raises terror threat level after blasts in pro-Russian Transnistria region
> 
> 
> The Kremlin says it is concerned by the explosions in the unrecognised Moscow-backed region
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine war: Russia says it is 'engaged in war' with NATO and tells the West to stop supplying weapons to Ukraine
> 
> 
> The Kremlin warned against provoking a third world war and said the threat of a nuclear conflict "should not be underestimated".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.sky.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO fighting proxy war with Russia and it could turn nuclear: Lavrov
> 
> 
> Sergei Lavrov, speaking on Russian state TV last night, said tensions between east and west are now worse than during the Cuban missile crisis at the height of the Cold War.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk


No its a feint. Russians are making way too big a deal of this to distract the fighting that's going on in Kherson where the Russians are trying to launch an offensive attack while dealing with Ukrainian counter offensive. They want to distract Ukrainian forces in and around Odessa from helping the Kherson operations. If the Russians do decide to really do something this stupid to sacrifice a small Russian force to get to Odessa, they be in a big surprise and get wiped out. I mean heck at least it gets rid of the Russian forces that's surrounding Ukraine on that side.


----------



## Oldman1

Paul2 said:


> The problem is Ukraine doesn't use Russian 152mm, Ukraine uses own 152mm cased ammo. Russian 152mm uses separately loaded charges.
> 
> Ukraine has another problem, they don't have short range 152mm rounds, only full power, and 70% power rounds.
> 
> Ukrainian 152mm is army division level, while Russian 152mm is regimental.


First time I heard of that. They used the same weapons as the Russians and should be using the same ammo with separately loaded charges for artillery. Didn't know about Ukraine's cased ammo type.


----------



## DF41

nang2 said:


> Sure. We will see soon enough. It seems Poland isn't the only one in the plan. Other parts of Europe are also in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia's Gazprom to halt gas supplies through Bulgaria as of 27 April
> 
> 
> Russian state-owned gas supplier Gazprom is to halt supplies going through Bulgaria into Europe as of Wednesday 27 April, Bloomberg reported on Tuesda
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.fxstreet.com


Russia should also stop all movement of Russian grain and oil seeds and cooking oil to any countries supplying arms to Ukraine Nazis


----------



## Oldman1

Viet said:


> Germany recently gives Ukraine 2 billion euros. That’s not little. The reason why Germany is hesitant in providing mass of tanks and artillery is Olaf Scholz. he is a weakling.


If Germany is hesitant to provide heavy weaponry at least give them more helmets, body armor, rifles, night vision, etc. as well as other basic supplies for infantry which is what is needed for hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian troops.


----------



## Trango Towers

sammuel said:


> War is more than a numbers game.
> 
> If it was just a numbers game than Russia would have already have taken the north .But a handful of Ukrainians armed mainly with bravery , javelins and NLAWS , managed to make them turn tail.
> 
> Don't know why you want to undermine the effect of all those weapons suppled to Ukraine.
> 
> I don't know of a time in history where so many countries sent aid to one country at war. More than 50 countries suppled aid , more than 30 countries are supplying military aid.
> 
> 
> And some of the stuff they are getting is the most advanced weapon systems in the world. If they had managed at the beginning of the war with so little , one can presume they would do a lot better now.
> 
> 
> ~


Looool yes Ukraine is winning on TV but losing on the ground.
The agreement between Russia and Ukraine to withdraw from Kiev was spun into victory on TV. But the again operation desert shield turned to desert storm and no one noticed. Most people just lap un anything they see in the media. Eg Russians were killing the people in the cinema building in maripol and turns out the surviors coming out of the building when interview said it was the nazi battalion of Ukraine that was keeping them in the building and Russians freed them.

Don't get me wrong. Russia should NOT have invaded Ukraine but the blame is 100% at Ukraine door. For 25years it was asked to keep nato away from Russian border and Russia won't stand for it. Now enjoy. 

Who would think a jew at the head of Ukraine would supply weapons to nazi Ukrainian units fighting Russia. Oh the irony

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## Oldman1

WotTen said:


> It is working right now and will continue for a while but European nationalism will reassert itself sooner or later. The whole entire point of the EU, led by Germany and France, was to make Europe independent of the US post WW2.
> 
> The US diplomats have their work cut out for them being the actual boss but making France and Germany think they are masters of their own destiny.


One of the biggest mistakes for Germany was reducing its nuclear energy and relying more on Russian gas and oil supply. Big mistake on that part and that is forcing Germany to be sitting on the fence. Even hesitant enough to provide 5k helmets.

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Gotta head back to work; but after 6PM EST, I shall be back and bring the usual posts about the "Denazification" of Ukraine.













~

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## Viet

Oldman1 said:


> If Germany is hesitant to provide heavy weaponry at least give them more helmets, body armor, rifles, night vision, etc. as well as other basic supplies for infantry which is what is needed for hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian troops.


More heavy weapons from Germany will go to Ukraine it’s just a question of when. The more brutal this war the quicker. Olaf Scholz is seen by many as too weak. He fears Ukraine would be emboldened launching offensives taking back Donbas and Crime. Putin would retaliate with nuclear weapons. NATO would intervene the world goes to nuclear holocaust, we are all dead. Germany has put 100 billion euros aside for extra weapon purchases.

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## DF41

jamal18 said:


> Col. Richard Black (US). Giving an excellent view of Syria and current events. Mind blowing coming from an American officer. About 1 hr.






 🥁🥁🥁 

Very long video. Very revealing of the role USA played in so many atrocities I salute the courage of Col Richard Black , a hero in many language .

If only USA have him as President, the world be a totally different place instead of having idiot Sleepy Geriatric Joe or that earlier Dotard 












__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517830342392037381

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516759040709255180

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516567201993613312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518142318787837952

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## DF41

K_Bin_W said:


> Let Taiwan declare full independence and become a full-fledge UN member. please call Chinas bluff.... please...


----------



## RescueRanger

I tune in every day to this thread for the finest compilations of propaganda and memes. It's better than reddit at the moment 



RoadAmerica said:


> Fat boy is back, once again he’s not fighting anything.
> Care to tell me where you’re from yet? I think I’ve been patient for 40+ pages, no?
> I ask because you sure like to throw rocks at the west, I can’t wait for the big reveal.
> 
> 
> Oh please, I thought they’re so big and confident.
> Just proving my point.


I wonder how much Putin paid fatboy to carry on with this charade, is he Steven Segal's personal assistant?

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## Paul2

Oldman1 said:


> First time I heard of that. They used the same weapons as the Russians and should be using the same ammo with separately loaded charges for artillery. Didn't know about Ukraine's cased ammo type.



Both were used in USSR times, but Ukraine ended with more 1 piece ammo firing guns, just like it ended with more T-64s over T-72s, and different doctrines coming out of that.

This Ukraine army standardised on T-64, and 1 piece ammo 152mms, and sold off remainders of other types.

In Ukraine army, anything bigger than 122mm are dedicated long range fires manned by officers, and with coordination coming above regimental level.

In 2014, it surfaced as an unpleasant surprise that 152mm cased ammo, and spare barrels were only made in Russia. So, they were really trying to preserve their long range.

203mm tubes have only 100 shots life under rapid fire conditions, and full charge. Cased 152mm tube has around 500 shots.

When every shot counts, an all officer force for long lange fires made sense.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519213059377549313

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519204790710030336

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## Hassan Al-Somal

At this rate, all of the ATGM weapons supplied by the West to the Ukrainians are finding themselves in the hands of the LPR and DNR. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519168847592538114


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519214038290423808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519211745335779329

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519210778955419649


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519047069750767616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519047079615770624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519189469991411712


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## Paul2

Paul2 said:


> 50-60 pieces of armour push in Hulyaipole direction went a few kms, and was shelled continuously until it scattered hiding in defilades



Unconfirmed report, Ukraine went on a meeting engagement there, and now it is turning into a counteroffensive.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519196265673728000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519215056474427397

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519199360793427969

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519219316268228609

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## Hassan Al-Somal

sammuel said:


> ~



It looks like you guys, no matter of where you are, are all on the Ukrainian side against Russia. Wait, perhaps this was all part of the plan. Let us hope Russians exactly understand where you stand.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500831134111916037

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519231962950602754


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## Trango Towers

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It looks like you guys, no matter of where you are, are all on the Ukrainian side against Russia. Wait, perhaps this was all part of the plan. Let us hope Russians exactly understand where you stand.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500831134111916037


Best of the best against stone throwers when armed with tanks Apc's under cover of drones f16 apaches etc.
2006 in Lebanon they cried like whores that didn't get paid.
So they will jojng the nazi azoz Brigade I guess. Going home party

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## RescueRanger



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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519118445647904769

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## K_Bin_W

Trango Towers said:


> 2006 in Lebanon they cried like whores that didn't get paid.


I followed 2006 very closely - Kosher was spanked pretty bad...

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519270513687904257

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519265707783077890

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519285015980683265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519207239239700480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519189680385757184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519281715440672769


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Oldman1 said:


> If Germany is hesitant to provide heavy weaponry at least give them more helmets, body armor, rifles, night vision, etc. as well as other basic supplies for infantry which is what is needed for hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian troops.



Why? These things cost money. Germany is not a charity. Germany does not want to waste money supplying a basket case like Ukraine.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519276392315330563

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519288252150202368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519290993002127360


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519243480668778497

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> @Apollon, now will you reject the NATO lies about Russians raping Ukrainian civilian females ?



Its not lies. Murder and rape is systematic and always was in russian military doctrine. In 1945 they raped little girls as young as 3 and old women in their 90th.


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## The SC

Johnson: *Britain does not want the conflict in Ukraine to cross the Ukrainian border*

@AsharqNewsBrk


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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It looks like you guys, no matter of where you are, are all on the Ukrainian side against Russia. Wait, perhaps this was all part of the plan. Let us hope Russians exactly understand where you stand.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500831134111916037


What exactly can Russia to to Israel? It could never mass any forces against it. Any nukes would be responded to with an Israeli nuke. 

And why would russia turn against Israel? It loves Israel.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519053433378062338


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519268192589340672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519268452200062977

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519309697026863105

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## thetutle

Trango Towers said:


> The agreement between Russia and Ukraine to withdraw from Kiev was spun into victory on TV.


They were landing paratroopers, Thought they would use the airport to fly in troops and equipment. But they got beat badly. 


Trango Towers said:


> Don't get me wrong. Russia should NOT have invaded Ukraine but the blame is 100% at Ukraine door.


Its it also Saddam's fault he got invaded? I think so, but do you now agree?

Do you also think its 100% Palestinian fault that they got invaded? I mean there were so many links with hitler.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Trophies or ghanima for the LPR and DNR freedom fighters


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519287490758451200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519300905379717121

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519288993577582593

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## Corax

So when the West blackmail Russia and anyone else they don't like with sanctions it's ok, but when Russia imposes sanctions on countries who don't want to pay in roubles it's called "blackmail"?! 

The hypocrisy on show here is breath-taking!! I'm done with the apex hypocrite driven global agenda of the US and its western lapdogs...another global realignment is long overdue. With the redneck yanks running around like headless chickens after the Chinese/Solomon Island deal, I get the feeling that is not too far away.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519275124234633216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519306816169168898

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## thetutle

mmr said:


>


It warms the heart knowing everyone is together and Germany is sending tanks to the east again.

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## mmr

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519243480668778497


source: trust me bro


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> It warms the heart knowing everyone is together and Germany is sending tanks to the east again.



Gepard self propelled short range air defense is 1960s stuff. Not even Germany uses it anymore. It is vulnerable to modern armed drones.


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## mmr

thetutle said:


> It warms the heart knowing everyone is together and Germany is sending tanks to the east again.


man the wet dreams of pdf here...thinking eu will crack....they might not like US 100 percent...but will always work with us for shared interest.

germany has no choice but to take a side and go all in for its own good

lesson for ccp bots..what will happen if winnie the poh finally grow balls to take Taiwan


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## nang2

Corax said:


> So when the West blackmail Russia and anyone else they don't like with sanctions it's ok, but when Russia imposes sanctions on countries who don't want to pay in roubles it's called "blackmail"?!
> 
> The hypocrisy on show here is breath-taking!! I'm done with the apex hypocrite driven global agenda of the US and its western lapdogs...another global realignment is long overdue. With the redneck yanks running around like headless chickens after the Chinese/Solomon Island deal, I get the feeling that is not too far away.


It is not hypocrisy. It is typical authoritarianism. "Do what I say, not what I do".

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## thetutle

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Gepard self propelled short range air defense is 1960s stuff. Not even Germany uses it anymore. It is vulnerable to modern armed drones.


The electronics inside is classified. We dot know that. But its ok either way. We are talking about Germany. they are reluctant to send tanks east. They had a bad experience before. So this is just the first step.



mmr said:


> man the wet dreams of pdf here...thinking eu will crack....they might not like US 100 percent...but will always work with us for shared interest.
> 
> germany has no choice but to take a side and go all in for its own good


Thats right, Europe has no choice. He cant be allowed win.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

They (Western propagandists) told you Ukrainians are winning. Well, how can the Russian forces repeatedly capture the Western-donated arms and the positions of Ukrainian forces where they can't even pick up their dead comrades?



Spoiler: Graphic - Dead Ukrainian troops





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519314275139043330




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519309369472606208


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## Meengla

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519309697026863105



"Played Again" as a commentator to that Tweet said, is the right way to put it.
I had said it weeks ago that the situation in Mariupol was hopeless and that the Ukrainian military should have evacuated and live to fight another day. But some cheer leaders-- sitting from far away, note that--were cheering on a futile war of attrition. Well... ponder your thoughts! You may hate Russia for this war of aggression but why did you not feel sympathies for those who have been slaughtered in thousands while a beautiful city being destroyed for what would be an almost certain outcome anyway!!

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519252107911651328

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Meengla said:


> "Played Again" as a commentator to that Tweet said, is the right way to put it.
> I had said it weeks ago that the situation in Mariupol was hopeless and that the Ukrainian military should have evacuated and live to fight another day. But some cheer leaders-- sitting from far away, note that--were cheering on a futile war of attrition. Well... ponder your thoughts! You may hate Russia for this war of aggression but why did you not feel sympathies for those who have been slaughtered in thousands while a beautiful city being destroyed for what would be an almost certain outcome anyway!!



100% agree!



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519252107911651328





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519279844370321408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519312989798957056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519303314944700416


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519325305248358402

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## nang2

Meengla said:


> "Played Again" as a commentator to that Tweet said, is the right way to put it.
> I had said it weeks ago that the situation in Mariupol was hopeless and that the Ukrainian military should have evacuated and live to fight another day. But some cheer leaders-- sitting from far away, note that--were cheering on a futile war of attrition. Well... ponder your thoughts! You may hate Russia for this war of aggression but why did you not feel sympathies for those who have been slaughtered in thousands while a beautiful city being destroyed for what would be an almost certain outcome anyway!!


They are also blissfully ignoring the fact on who are holding those 100s civilians down there.

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## nang2

sammuel said:


> ~


I don't think Jews really hate Nazis. They just don't like to be on the receiving end of Nazism. They are perfectly fine to be Nazis themselves.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519326885561393155

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519296744265183232


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## Meengla

nang2 said:


> They are also blissfully ignoring the fact on who are holding those 100s civilians down there.



One online source said that some very important people NOT from Ukraine are hiding in the AzovStal plant and that helicopters have been sent to rescue them but the helicopters have been shot down by Russians?? True or rumor?
BTW, it serves the Russian interests just fine if all civilians leave the AzovStal plant. Then they can truly demolish the place with God knows what!


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519289739152879616


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519174122588106752

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519326885561393155





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519285107412312064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519322982136442880


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## Apollon

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519326885561393155



Sometimes things burn


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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519174122588106752




I see no "O", "Z", or "V" signs. A tank hiding in residential areas? It seems to me a Ukrainian-owned tank. This is one of your failed propaganda.



Apollon said:


> Sometimes things burn



President Putin has a message for you, lady @Apollon. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519315839782117376


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519284603726725127


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519248336443879424


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519334381235625984


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I see no "O", "Z", or "V" signs. A tank hiding in residential areas? It seems to me a Ukrainian-owned tank. This is one of your failed propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> President Putin has a message for you, lady @Apollon. 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519315839782117376



Putins forces would get annihilated if the US entered the war. The rate of Russian losses would be absurd. I don't think you understand the mass of PGMs the US could fire on Russian forces. The US fired 500 cruise missiles on Day 1 of the second Gulf War. The US would destroy all of Russias air bases and staging areas in the opening days.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519224832222797824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519336308547944449


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519336925236191232


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## nang2

Putin's speech is really a joy to read. Way better than the semi-dementia Biden.



http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/68287



However, Kremlin website is unreachable to me. So, I quote from thesaker.is: http://thesaker.is/president-putin-and-un-secretary-general-antonio-guterres-meeting



> President Putin and UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres: Meeting​5842 Views April 27, 2022  29 Comments
> http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/68287
> April 26, 2022
> *President of Russia Vladimir Putin*:
> Mr Secretary-General,
> I am very happy to see you.
> As one of the founders of the United Nations and a permanent member of the UN Security Council, Russia has always supported this universal organisation. We believe the UN is not simply universal but it is unique in a way – the international community does not have another organisation like it. We are doing all we can to support the principles on which it rests, and we intend to continue doing this in the future.
> We find the expression of some of our colleagues about a world based on rules somewhat strange. We believe the main rule is the UN Charter and other documents adopted by this organisation rather than some papers written by their authors as they see fit or aimed at ensuring their own interests.
> We are also surprised to hear statements by our colleagues that imply that some in the world have exceptional status or can claim exclusive rights because the Charter of the United Nations reads that all participants in international communication are equal regardless of their strength, size or geographical location. I think this is similar to what the Bible reads about all people being equal. I am sure we will find the same idea in both the Quran and the Torah. All people are equal before God. So, the idea that someone can claim a kind of exceptional status is very strange to us.
> We are living in a complicated world, and, therefore, we proceed from reality and are willing to work with everyone.
> No doubt, at one time the United Nations was established to resolve acute crises and went through different periods in its development. Quite recently, just several years ago, we heard it had become obsolete, and there was no need for it anymore. This happened whenever it prevented someone from reaching their goals in the international arena.
> We have always said that there is no other universal organisation like the United Nations, and it is necessary to cherish the institutions that were created after WWII for the express purpose of settling disputes.
> I know about your concern over Russia’s military operation in Donbass, in Ukraine. I think this will be the focus of our conversation today. I would just like to note in this context that the entire problem emerged after a coup d’état staged in Ukraine in 2014. This is an obvious fact. You can call it whatever name you like and have whatever bias in favour of those who did it, but this was really an anti-constitutional coup.
> This was followed by the situation with the expression of their will by the residents of Crimea and Sevastopol. They acted in practically the same way as the people living in Kosovo – they made a decision on independence and then turned to us with a request to join the Russian Federation. The only difference between the two cases was that in Kosovo this decision on sovereignty was adopted by Parliament whereas Crimea and Sevastopol made it at a nationwide referendum.
> A similar problem emerged in south-eastern Ukraine, where the residents of several territories, at least, two Ukrainian regions, did not accept the coup d’état and its results. But they were subjected to very strong pressure, in part, with the use of combat aviation and heavy military equipment. This is how the crisis in Donbass, in south-eastern Ukraine, emerged.
> As you know, after another failed attempt by the Kiev authorities to resolve this problem by force, we arrived at the signing of agreements in the city of Minsk. This is what they were called – the Minsk Agreements. It was an attempt to settle the situation in Donbass peacefully.
> To our regret, during the past eight years the people that lived there found themselves under a siege. The Kiev authorities announced in public that they were organising a siege of these territories. They were not embarrassed to call it a siege although initially they had renounced this idea and continued military pressure.
> Under the circumstances, after the authorities in Kiev actually went on record as saying – I would like to emphasise that the top state officials announced this in public – that they did not intend to fulfil the Minsk Agreements, we were compelled to recognise these regions as independent and sovereign states to prevent the genocide of the people living there. I would like to reiterate: this was a forced measure to stop the suffering of the people living in those territories.
> Unfortunately, our colleagues in the West preferred to ignore all this. After we recognised the independence of these states, they asked us to render them military aid because they were subjected to military actions, an armed aggression. In accordance with Article 51 of the UN Charter, Chapter VII, we were forced to do this by launching a special military operation.
> I would like to inform you that although the military operation is underway, we are still hoping to reach an agreement on the diplomatic track. We are conducting talks. We have not abandoned them.
> Moreover, at the talks in Istanbul, and I know that you have just been there since I spoke with President Erdogan today, we managed to make an impressive breakthrough. Our Ukrainian colleagues did not link the requirements for Ukraine’s international security with such a notion as Ukraine’s internationally recognised borders, leaving aside Crimea, Sevastopol and the newly Russia-recognised Donbass republics, albeit with certain reservations.
> But, unfortunately, after reaching these agreements and after we had, in my opinion, clearly demonstrated our intentions to create the conditions for continuing the talks, we faced a provocation in the town of Bucha, which the Russian Army had nothing to do with. We know who was responsible, who prepared this provocation, using what means, and we know who the people involved were.
> After this, the position of our negotiators from Ukraine on a further settlement underwent a drastic change. They simply renounced their previous intentions to leave aside issues of security guarantees for the territories of Crimea, Sevastopol and the Donbass republics. They simply renounced this. In the relevant draft agreement presented to us, they simply stated in two articles that these issues must be resolved at a meeting of the heads of state.
> It is clear to us that if we take these issues to the heads of state level without even resolving them in a preliminary draft agreement, they will never be resolved. In this case, we simply cannot sign a document on security guarantees without settling the territorial issues of Crimea, Sevastopol and the Donbass republics.
> Nevertheless, the talks are going on. They are now being conducted online. I am still hoping that this will lead us to some positive result.
> This is all I wanted to say in the beginning. I am sure we will have many questions linked with this situation. Maybe there will be other questions as well. We will talk.
> I am very happy to see you. Welcome to Moscow.
> _(In his remarks, the UN Secretary General expressed concern over the situation in Ukraine, while emphasising the need for a multilateral world order based on the UN Charter and international law. Antonio Guterres also presented the two proposals he had put forward the same day during his meeting with Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov. These proposals concern humanitarian matters, including humanitarian corridors, in particular, for Mariupol residents, as well as setting up a humanitarian contact group in which the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (UN OCHA), the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), Russia, and Ukraine would work together to discuss the situation in order to make these corridors truly safe and effective.)_
> *Vladimir Putin:* Mr Secretary General,
> Regarding the invasion, I am well-versed in the documents of the International Court on the situation in Kosovo. In fact, I have read them myself. I remember very well the decision by the International Court, which states that when fulfilling its right to self-determination a territory within any state does not have to seek permission from the country’s central government in order to proclaim its sovereignty. This was the ruling on Kosovo, and this is what the International Court decided, and everyone supported it. I personally read all the comments issued by the judicial, administrative and political bodies in the United States and Europe – everyone supported this decision.
> If so, the Donbass republics, the Donetsk People’s Republic and the Lugansk People’s Republic, can enjoy the same right without seeking permission from Ukraine’s central government and declare their sovereignty, since the precedent has been created.
> Is this so? Do you agree with this?
> _(Antonio Guterres noted that the United Nations did not recognise Kosovo)._
> *Vladimir Putin:* Yes, of course, but the court did. Let me finish what I was saying.
> If there is a precedent, the Donbass republics can do the same. This is what they did, while we, in turn, had the right to recognise them as independent states.
> Many countries around the world did this, including our Western opponents, with Kosovo. Many states recognised Kosovo. It is a fact that many Western countries recognised Kosovo as an independent state. We did the same with the Donbass republics. After that, they asked us to provide them with military assistance to deal with the state that launched military operations against them. We had the right to do so in full compliance with Chapter VII, Article 51 of the UN Charter.
> Just a second, we will talk about this in a minute. But first I would like to address the second part of your question, Mariupol. The situation is difficult and possibly even tragic there. But in fact, it is very simple.
> I had a conversation with President Erdogan today. He spoke about the ongoing fighting there. No, there is no fighting there; it is over. There is no fighting in Mariupol; it has stopped.
> Part of the Ukrainian armed forces that were deployed in other industrial districts have surrendered. Nearly 1,300 of them have surrendered, but the actual figure is larger. Some of them were injured or wounded; they are being kept in absolutely normal conditions. The wounded have received medical assistance from our doctors, skilled and comprehensive assistance.
> The Azovstal plant has been fully isolated. I have issued instructions, an order to stop the assault. There is no direct fighting there now. Yes, the Ukrainian authorities say that there are civilians at the plant. In this case, the Ukrainian military must release them, or otherwise they will be doing what terrorists in many countries have done, what ISIS did in Syria when they used civilians as human shields. The simplest thing they can do is release these people; it is as simple as that.
> You say that Russia’s humanitarian corridors are ineffective. Mr Secretary-General, you have been misled: these corridors are effective. Over 100,000 people, 130,000–140,000, if I remember correctly, have left Mariupol with our assistance, and they are free to go where they want, to Russia or Ukraine. They can go anywhere they want; we are not detaining them, but we are providing assistance and support to them.
> The civilians in Azovstal, if there are any, can do this as well. They can come out, just like that. This is an example of a civilised attitude to people, an obvious example. And anyone can see this; you only need to talk with the people who have left the city. The simplest thing for military personnel or members of the nationalist battalions is to release the civilians. It is a crime to keep civilians, if there are any there, as human shields.
> We maintain contact with them, with those who are hiding underground at the Azovstal plant. They have an example they can follow: their comrades-in-arms have surrendered, over a thousand of them, 1,300. Nothing bad has happened to them. Moreover, Mr Secretary-General, if you wish, if representatives of the Red Cross and the UN want to inspect their detainment conditions and see for themselves where and how medical assistance is being provided to them, we are ready to organise this. It is the simplest solution to a seemingly complex issue.
> Let us discuss this.
> <…>

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519118445647904769



Bed-time stories. You can continue making shit up. Now, how about this? 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519335306562260993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519335198034661378

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519312989798957056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519248336443879424


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519190892770328576

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## Viet

nang2 said:


> Putin's speech is really a joy to read. Way better than the semi-dementia Biden.
> 
> 
> 
> http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/68287
> 
> 
> 
> However, Kremlin website is unreachable to me. So, I quote from thesaker.is: http://thesaker.is/president-putin-and-un-secretary-general-antonio-guterres-meeting


You have joy to read a war criminal?
Putin is only supported by Cuba (he just sent foods as thank you), Belarus (Lukaschenko refused to join the war), North Korea (Kim has nukes), Syria (civil war) and Venezuela (bankrupt).
Ukraine is meanwhile supported by 2/3 of global economies. Plus Nato. Plus G7. Plus EU.


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## nang2

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519190892770328576


liveuamap usually follows Ukraine announcement. Even there, Zavody and Zarichne have been marked under Russia control already while the other three haven't.


----------



## Apollon

Another mysterious fire in Russia. A large russian weapon and ammunition depot in Belgorod is blowing up right now 









Mysterious explosions throughout Russia, Belgorod ammunition depot on fire


Blasts were reported in three Russian provinces bordering Ukraine in the early hours of Wednesday.




www.google.com

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## nang2

Apollon said:


> Another mysterious fire in Russia. A large russian weapon and ammunition depot in Belgorod is blowing up right now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mysterious explosions throughout Russia, Belgorod ammunition depot on fire
> 
> 
> Blasts were reported in three Russian provinces bordering Ukraine in the early hours of Wednesday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


One more evidence to show that Ukraine is incapable of launching meaningful counterattacks. Therefore, they resort to guerrilla warfare. Before you know it, soon they would act more like ISIS. They have already started assassination of local civilians, like the blogger in Kherson.

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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519285107412312064
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519322982136442880


Russians think that if they put up tweets that Western weapons are being destroyed, that the wets will say, oh lets not send Ukraine any more weapons. lol


----------



## nang2

thetutle said:


> Russians think that if they put up tweets that Western weapons are being destroyed, that the wets will say, oh lets not send Ukraine any more weapons. lol


Of course not. It is just western weapons paid by western taxpayers being blown up, not western bodies.


----------



## thetutle

nang2 said:


> Of course not. It is just western weapons paid by western taxpayers being blown up, not western bodies.


Yes, the weapons will be used up, that is the point. Some of course will be destroyed or captured. 

Can russia outproduce 40 western countries that are providing weapons? Can it outproduce even a few of them?

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## nang2

thetutle said:


> Yes, the weapons will be used up, that is the point. Some of course will be destroyed or captured.
> 
> Can russia outproduce 40 western countries that are providing weapons? Can it outproduce even a few of them?


You miss the most important part. Those who send the weapons are NOT the ones who pay for them.


----------



## mmr

nang2 said:


> Of course not. It is just western weapons paid by western taxpayers being blown up, not western bodies.


almost 40 countries that supporting ukraine has combine GDP of 50 trillion dollar vs russia 1.2 trillion

they can afford to send for ever russia cant

thats the point

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## nang2

mmr said:


> almost 40 countries that supporting ukraine has combine GDP of 50 trillion dollar vs russia 1.2 trillion
> 
> they can afford to send for ever russia cant
> 
> thats the point


Yes, they can afford on other people's money. They certainly don't leave an option for me to opt out.


----------



## thetutle

nang2 said:


> You miss the most important part. Those who send the weapons are NOT the ones who pay for them.


Every weapons cache that gets sent to Ukraine makes it that much more difficult for russia to attack new countries. 

I would much rather my tax dollars go to Ukraine for weapons then have to go and killed myself. Ukranians are dying so I dot have to. They are heroes. 

And if they win all the better. If they lose, then it will be our turn eventually. 

So its very much in western interest to give al the weapons regardless of cost.

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## F-22Raptor

The Ukrainian military is getting more capable by the day as NATO weapons come online. Russia continues to get attrited.

Russias position is unsustainable, and as President Biden stated, the US can supply Ukraine "for a very long time."

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## nang2

thetutle said:


> Every weapons cache that gets sent to Ukraine makes it that much more difficult for russia to attack new countries.
> 
> I would much rather my tax dollars go to Ukraine for weapons then have to go and killed myself. Ukranians are dying so I dot have to. They are heroes.
> 
> And if they win all the better. If they lose, then it will be our turn eventually.
> 
> So its very much in western interest to give al the weapons regardless of cost.


Yes, you can spend your tax money in this way. Please don't drag me along.

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## thetutle

nang2 said:


> Yes, they can afford on other people's money. They certainly don't leave an option for me to opt out.


You can opt out. Just go back to china. its so rich and prosperous. Not poor and miserable like canada.

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## mmr

nang2 said:


> Yes, they can afford on other people's money. They certainly don't leave an option for me to opt out.


that's because 80 percent ppl in Canada will do what it ever takes to help Ukraine.

every country in west overwhelming population support Ukraine.



thetutle said:


> You can opt out. Just go back to china. its so rich and prosperous. Not poor and miserable like canada.


exactly

these ppl will be whining about west day and night but will never leave west

no one force them to stay here and feel shitty lol

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## nang2

thetutle said:


> You can opt out. Just go back to china. its so rich and prosperous. Not poor and miserable like canada.


That is not opt-out. That is kick-out. Please use English properly.

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Bed-time stories. You can continue making shit up. Now, how about this? 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519335306562260993
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519335198034661378
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519312989798957056
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519248336443879424





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519036292159488000

Russias military is going to get annihilated for as long as Russia remains in Ukraine.


----------



## nang2

mmr said:


> that's because 80 percent ppl in Canada will do what ever takes to help Ukraine.
> 
> every country in west overwhelming population support Ukraine.
> 
> 
> exactly
> 
> these ppl will be whining about west day and night but will never leave west


Well, I will leave the west the time when the west is just like another China. And you are promoting that direction.


----------



## Apollon

nang2 said:


> One more evidence to show that Ukraine is incapable of launching meaningful counterattacks. Therefore, they resort to guerrilla warfare. Before you know it, soon they would act more like ISIS. They have already started assassination of local civilians, like the blogger in Kherson.



Why? Blowing up important infrastructure in Russia is a smart move. Ukraine puts Putins barbarian troops into meat grinder and at same time russian research institutes, ammo depots, oil and gas raffineries blow up at daily rate.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519343530543620097

Putin is a clown. You know exactly what airport Ukraine is getting supplied from in Poland and yet do nothing.

Why? Because Putin knows Russia will gets its a** handed to it by the US and NATO.

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## Apollon

nang2 said:


> Yes, they can afford on other people's money. They certainly don't leave an option for me to opt out.



I dont want to opt out. As european its my interest that russia gets crushed

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## mmr

nang2 said:


> Well, I will leave the west the time when the west is just like another China. And you are promoting that direction.


fact that i can show middle finger to our PM is the freedom why rich Chinese buy 5 million dollar homes in Vancouver.

i live here and i know which country going at what direction

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## nang2

Apollon said:


> Why? Blowing up important infrastructure in Russia is a smart move. Ukraine puts Putins barbarian troops into meat grinder and at same time russian research institutes, ammo depots, oil and gas raffineries blow up at daily rate.


I didn't say guerrilla warfare isn't a smart move. It simply is contradictory to many claims that Ukrainians are winning on the battle fields. No they are not. that is why they resort to guerrilla warfare, the same reason why Mao promoted this strategy against Japanese during WWII.

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## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519343530543620097
> 
> Putin is a clown. You know exactly what airport Ukraine is getting supplied from in Poland and yet do nothing.
> 
> Why? Because Putin knows Russia will gets its a** handed to it by the US and NATO.


putin stop gas to Bulgaria lol..

weekest country of EU

don't have the balls to do same to Germany despite they just announce they will send heavy weapons

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## thetutle

President of Croatia, Milanovic, who's is a socialist, had said Croatia will not accept Finland into NATO unless NATO forces Bosnia to change some election laws. 

This guy has been bought by russia some time ago. He's gone totally insane. 

Thankfully the government and parliament will approve Finland and are trying to put the president in an asylum.

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## nang2

mmr said:


> fact that i can show middle finger to our PM is the freedom why rich Chinese buy 5 million dollar homes in Vancouver.
> 
> i live here and i know which country going at what direction


That is cheap. I wish I can ask my tax money back for the policies I disagree with. That is real freedom. By the way, I didn't vote for our PM.



mmr said:


> putin stop gas to Bulgaria lol..
> 
> weekest country of EU
> 
> don't have the balls to do same to Germany despite they just announce they will send heavy weapons


Germany said they will pay in ruble. It is pure business and Russia is doing by the book. It is EU that is mixing economy and war.

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## Corax

mmr said:


> almost 40 countries that supporting ukraine has combine GDP of 50 trillion dollar vs russia 1.2 trillion
> 
> they can afford to send for ever russia cant
> 
> thats the point



Russia produces its own weapons and has all the natural resources it needs. It can also keep on producing weapons. The same was the case during the USSR. And the West can only supply light weapons and outdated heavier weapons in much smaller numbers, while Russia still has a sizeable airforce, long range cruise missiles, and heavier armour, etc. The West can't hand over weapons like F-16s, Rafales, Abrams tanks, etc. to the Ukrainians. In a long-term attrition war, the Russians will will, this is what they do best.

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## gambit

nang2 said:


> Well, *I will leave the west the time when the west is just like another China.* And you are promoting that direction.


In other words -- *NEVER*. This make you a true hypocrite in every contexts of the word. You live in the West to enjoy the rights and freedoms but advocate oppression for China, and at the same time, you hate the culture that ensures those rights and freedoms.

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## mmr

nang2 said:


> That is cheap. I wish I can ask my tax money back for the policies I disagree with. That is real freedom. By the way, I didn't vote for our PM.
> 
> 
> Germany said they will pay in ruble. It is pure business and Russia is doing by the book. It is EU that is mixing economy and war.


germany so far didnt say it will pay in ruble

share the source?


----------



## thetutle

mmr said:


> fact that i can show middle finger to our PM is the freedom why rich Chinese buy 5 million dollar homes in Vancouver.
> 
> i live here and i know which country going at what direction


For all its flaws, the west is pretty good. When you compare to the alternatives. Of course it can be better and must be better, but imagine being in russia and china now. 

Russia was pretty good but the freedoms are being eroded very very fast.

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## jamal18

mmr said:


> putin stop gas to Bulgaria lol..
> 
> weekest country of EU
> 
> don't have the balls to do same to Germany despite they just announce they will send heavy weapons


I believe they have stopped supplies to Poland and Bulgaria because they won't pay in Roubles. Germany will pay in roubles.


----------



## mmr

Corax said:


> Russia produces its own weapons and has all the natural resources it needs. It can also keep on producing weapons. The same was the case during the USSR. And the West can only supply light weapons and outdated heavier weapons in much smaller numbers, while Russia still has a sizeable airforce, long range cruise missiles, and heavier armour, etc. The West can't hand over weapons like F-16s, Rafales, Abrams tanks, etc. to the Ukrainians. In a long-term attrition war, the Russians will will, this is what they do best.


russia is too poor to afford proxy war with world's most richest and powerful countries

realty sucks but that's the truth




jamal18 said:


> I believe they have stopped supplies to Poland and Bulgaria because they won't pay in Roubles. Germany will pay in roubles.


share source then

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## nang2

mmr said:


> germany so far didnt say it will pay in ruble
> 
> share the source?


An earlier report today. But later Russia actually rejected that payment in ruble:









Russia Rejects German Gas Payment From Seized Trading Unit


(Bloomberg) -- Russia’s major gas bank rejected a payment from a trading firm that Germany seized from Moscow’s control, the first sign of friction following the take-over amid a broader regional energy dispute. Most Read from BloombergFour European Gas Buyers Made Ruble Payments to RussiaRussia...




ca.finance.yahoo.com





Apparently Germans want to pay in ruble but in a way that pleases other EU countries.


----------



## Viet

nang2 said:


> I didn't say guerrilla warfare isn't a smart move. It simply is contradictory to many claims that Ukrainians are winning on the battle fields. No they are not. that is why they resort to guerrilla warfare, the same reason why Mao promoted this strategy against Japanese during WWII.


Is Putin winning if his soldiers steal Ukraine children shoes? Plz feel a bit shame. Guerilla is a legitimate warfare. Stealing shoes not.


----------



## mmr

thetutle said:


> For all its flaws, the west is pretty good. When you compare to the alternatives. Of course it can be better and must be better, but imagine being in russia and china now.
> 
> Russia was pretty good but the freedoms are being eroded very very fast.


you know i live in west Vancouver...you will be shocked amount of money rich Chinese spend to live here 

there are simply no detached houses here below 5 million...and they keep buying here.



nang2 said:


> An earlier report today. But later Russia actually rejected that payment in ruble:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Rejects German Gas Payment From Seized Trading Unit
> 
> 
> (Bloomberg) -- Russia’s major gas bank rejected a payment from a trading firm that Germany seized from Moscow’s control, the first sign of friction following the take-over amid a broader regional energy dispute. Most Read from BloombergFour European Gas Buyers Made Ruble Payments to RussiaRussia...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ca.finance.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently Germans want to pay in ruble but in a way that pleases other EU countries.


bottom line it didn't pay in ruble


----------



## yuba

nang2 said:


> Yes, they can afford on other people's money. They certainly don't leave an option for me to opt out.


That same in most countries i pay tax here and the states we cant pick what our elected officials choose instead we can vote them out when election time comes

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## nang2

Apollon said:


> I dont want to opt out. As european its my interest that russia gets crushed


Of course you can opt in. That is your freedom. But where is my freedom of opt out? It is just like a group of people forcing other people to help pay for their agenda. Is that the freedom or just pure authoritarianism?

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## Apollon

nang2 said:


> I didn't say guerrilla warfare isn't a smart move. It simply is contradictory to many claims that Ukrainians are winning on the battle fields. No they are not. that is why they resort to guerrilla warfare, the same reason why Mao promoted this strategy against Japanese during WWII.



I think you dont get it?

Russia is obliterated in Ukraine. 


And inside Russia Ukraine blows up important infrastructure and Russia can do nothing against it. Who would have thought that?


Its important to rise the costs of this war for russia on incredible levels. Kill as much troops as possible. Destroy their equipment. Attack inside Russia ect. 

The Institute that was burned down was russias rocket development Institute..the damage done there is inmeassureable. 


Also russia has a very low birthrate. Each dead soldier is a family line ending. Ukraine is winning by dragging Russia into the abyss. 


And im more than happy to help with that.

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## nang2

mmr said:


> you know i live in west Vancouver...you will be shocked amount of money rich Chinese spend to live here
> 
> there are simply no detached houses here below 5 million...and they keep buying here.
> 
> 
> bottom line it didn't pay in ruble


Read again

"even as the company sought to pay for the fuel using a rubles account as Russia has demanded, according to people familiar with the matter."

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519036292159488000
> 
> Russias military is going to get annihilated for as long as Russia remains in Ukraine.




All I see Ukrainians destroying their own bridges. 👇But it seems you missed the fact that eastern Ukraine is fully pro-Russia. In the South of Ukraine, there is a sizable Russians there as well. So your "annihilation" claim isn't gonna once the Ukrainian troops are driven out of East and South of the country. Russian troops will not be an occupying force; to the contrary, the population is welcoming them. lastly, get over the propaganda bandwagon and try to have a little bit of understanding what "annihilation" means.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519267742112751622


----------



## Apollon

nang2 said:


> Of course you can opt in. That is your freedom. But where is my freedom of opt out? It is just like a group of people forcing other people to help pay for their agenda. Is that the freedom or just pure authoritarianism?



Its democracy. You are free to leave. Or vote a party that is against it. 

In China people have no freedom to do so.


----------



## nang2

Apollon said:


> I think you dont get it?
> 
> Russia is obliterated in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> And inside Russia Ukraine blows up important infrastructure and Russia can do nothing against it. Who would have thought that?
> 
> 
> Its important to rise the costs of this war for russia on incredible levels. Kill as much troops as possible. Destroy their equipment. Attack inside Russia ect.
> 
> The Institute that was burned down was russias rocket development Institute..the damage done there is inmeassureable.
> 
> 
> Also russia has a very low birthrate. Each dead soldier is a family line ending. Ukraine is winning by dragging Russia into the abyss.
> 
> 
> And im more than happy to help with that.


Say however you want. This is a defense forum and this subject is about a warfare. I pay more attention to the ground situation than twitter.

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## Apollon

nang2 said:


> That is cheap. I wish I can ask my tax money back for the policies I disagree with. That is real freedom. By the way, I didn't vote for our PM.
> 
> 
> Germany said they will pay in ruble. It is pure business and Russia is doing by the book. It is EU that is mixing economy and war.



Love your lies. Germany has never said to pay in Rubles and Chancellor Scholz explicit stated its paid in Euro.


Thats how your Propaganda works. Throwing dirt into the room and thinking others dont check it. Suprise! I live in Germany.

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## nang2

Apollon said:


> Its democracy. You are free to leave. Or vote a party that is against it.
> 
> In China people have no freedom to do so.


That is why I am not a fan of democracy. I am a fan of freedom. The west is currently promoting democratic authoritarianism.



Apollon said:


> Love your lies. Germany has never said to pay in Rubles and Chancellor Scholz explicit stated its paid in Euro.
> 
> 
> Thats how your Propaganda works. Throwing dirt into the room and thinking others dont check it. Suprise! I live in Germany.


"even as the company sought to pay for the fuel using a rubles account as Russia has demanded, according to people familiar with the matter."

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## Apollon

nang2 said:


> Say however you want. This is a defense forum and this subject is about a warfare. I pay more attention to the ground situation than twitter.



The ground Situation is 15.000 dead troops on russia. 40.000 wounded. 2000 tanks destroyed. 200.000 russians leaving russia each weak. A economic collapse worse than 1990 and their infrastructrue blown up. Their flagship sunk. NATO more united than ever. 


Russia is sinking into darkness and its good to watch. 


Pussolini (comparing Putin to Hitler is wrong since Hitler at least had military sucess) failed in all his goals.

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## thetutle

mmr said:


> you know i live in west Vancouver...you will be shocked amount of money rich Chinese spend to live here
> 
> there are simply no detached houses here below 5 million...and they keep buying here.
> 
> 
> bottom line it didn't pay in ruble


even Chinese want freedom and prosperity.

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## DF41

nang2 said:


> I don't think Jews really hate Nazis. They just don't like to be on the receiving end of Nazism. They are perfectly fine to be Nazis themselves.




And the jews be growing toothbrush moustache to bond better with Ukraine Nazis.







And singing in Yiddish Horst Wessel Lied 







__
https://www.reddit.com/r/GermanWW2photos/comments/m8bjbh

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## Apollon

nang2 said:


> That is why I am not a fan of democracy. I am a fan of freedom. The west is currently promoting democratic authoritarianism.
> 
> 
> "even as the company sought to pay for the fuel using a rubles account as Russia has demanded, according to people familiar with the matter."



Germany has banned to pay in rubles. Boohoo. Believe it or not Government trumps companies.

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## nang2

Apollon said:


> Germany has banned to pay in rubles. Boohoo. Believe it or not Government trumps companies.


Sure. I am proud of your government to mean what they say. I hope they keep it up.


----------



## thetutle

nang2 said:


> Of course you can opt in. That is your freedom. But where is my freedom of opt out? It is just like a group of people forcing other people to help pay for their agenda. Is that the freedom or just pure authoritarianism?


you're probing young and haven't given this much thought,

you cant opt out of essential services, like police, military, arming Ukraine. Its considered a common good,

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## nang2

thetutle said:


> even Chinese want freedom and prosperity.


Who doesn't? But too many people, including you, mistake democracy as freedom. No, it is not. Democracy can easily degenerate into the tyranny of the majority.



thetutle said:


> you're probing young and haven't given this much thought,
> 
> you cant opt out of essential services, like police, military, arming Ukraine. Its considered a common good,


Yes but how is Ukraine my essential service? Did Canada constitution say that?

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## Apollon

nang2 said:


> Who doesn't? But too many people, including you, mistake democracy as freedom. No, it is not. Democracy can easily degenerate into the tyranny of the majority.
> 
> 
> Yes but how is Ukraine my essential service? Did Canada constitution say that?



If Ukraine falls Putin will attack next. He plans to force all of Europe into his empire of dirt. Ukraine is the defense of all of us. 


I dont want to live under a primitive dictatorship.

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## nang2

Apollon said:


> If Ukraine falls Putin will attack next. He plans to force all of Europe into his empire of dirt. Ukraine is the defense of all of us.
> 
> 
> I dont want to live under a primitive dictatorship.


No he won't.

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## NotSure

A Hohol is proud to be a cannibal, eating the remains of a russian soldier. But it was an ukr. Soldier, died in a T-64BV.

Western values 2022. Let's hope our Herrenmensch Apollon see it. Sure he will became instant hungry.



Spoiler: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIywju7aTDU










https://files.catbox.moe/pw5mzz.mp4


----------



## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> All I see Ukrainians destroying their own bridges. 👇But it seems you missed the fact that eastern Ukraine is fully pro-Russia. In the South of Ukraine, there is a sizable Russians there as well. So your "annihilation" claim isn't gonna once the Ukrainian troops are driven out of East and South of the country. Russian troops will not be an occupying force; to the contrary, the population is welcoming them. lastly, get over the propaganda bandwagon and try to have a little bit of understanding what "annihilation" means.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519267742112751622


If you ask the Turks in Cologne, a city in Germany, they will vote for Erdogan.
If you ask chinese in London Chinatown they will vote for Xi Jingping. Russia itself was ruled by a German native.
You can’t use own people in foreign countries as fifth column.
Blowing up own bridges to slow down enemy advance is not new invented in Ukraine.


----------



## thetutle

Apollon said:


> The ground Situation is 15.000 dead troops on russia. 40.000 wounded. 2000 tanks destroyed. 200.000 russians leaving russia each weak. A economic collapse worse than 1990 and their infrastructrue blown up. Their flagship sunk. NATO more united than ever.
> 
> 
> Russia is sinking into darkness and its good to watch.
> 
> 
> Pussolini (comparing Putin to Hitler is wrong since Hitler at least had military sucess) failed in all his goals.


I'd say its more than 20,000 now. 

Nevertheless, Russia still has a military advantage and has devastated a whole country, 

but we gotta see the big picture. and what happens to russia in the medium term, It wont be good.


----------



## Apollon

nang2 said:


> No he won't.



He planned too. Its called duginism. He wanted a eurasian empire. 

Its important we annihilate russias military in Ukraine.



thetutle said:


> I'd say its more than 20,000 now.
> 
> Nevertheless, Russia still has a military advantage and has devastated a whole country,
> 
> but we gotta see the big picture. and what happens to russia in the medium term, It wont be good.



Ukraine is like a sponge and simply drags Russia down mid term.


There is no positive outcome in this for russia.

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## nang2

Apollon said:


> He planned too. Its called duginism. He wanted a eurasian empire.
> 
> Its important we annihilate russias military in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine is like a sponge and simply drags Russia down mid term.
> 
> 
> There is no positive outcome in this for russia.


Do you even know what eurasia means?

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## Apollon

nang2 said:


> Do you even know what eurasia means?



Yes as Pussolini said, he wants rule from Lissabon to Vladivostok. Sorry Vlad, we are too good to be ruled from a 3rd world country like Russia. We prefer to smash them in Ukraine. 


Putin knows that Russia is weak and crap. Only 140 million people..no economy. He needs Europe for his dreams of a worldpower

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## thetutle

nang2 said:


> Who doesn't? But too many people, including you, mistake democracy as freedom. No, it is not. Democracy can easily degenerate into the tyranny of the majority.


You gotta put down the Mao books and Marx literature. Read John Stewart Mill. You might then have a better idea. 


nang2 said:


> Yes but how is Ukraine my essential service? Did Canada constitution say that?


Police is not your essential service if you are robber. But yes, someone in power has decided it is an essential service.

If you are Russian or Chinese 5th columnist then arms to Ukraine is not essential. For the rest of us it is.

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## jamal18

The rouble is stronger now than before the conflict. Sanctions working?

Some sensible discussion on the economic situation. About 20 minutes.

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## RescueRanger

Two America fighters in Ukraine were seriously wounded along with a number of Ukrainians due to Russian artillery fire:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519333208520859649

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519240074738778112

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519368819940245505

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## PakFactor

RescueRanger said:


> Two America fighters in Ukraine were seriously wounded along with a number of Ukrainians due to Russian artillery fire:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519333208520859649
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519240074738778112



One got wounded on his foot when the wall fell, the other seems like will go blind from shrapnel wound to the eye, morons, but it's all good I want more of these people to go into the grinder keep it flowing.

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## thetutle

jamal18 said:


> The rouble is stronger now than before the conflict. Sancctions working?
> 
> Some sensible discussion on the economic situation.


What clowns. Greeks. What cant more greeks be like @Apollon 

I'm not even convinced @Aplollon is greek.

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## F-22Raptor

PakFactor said:


> One got wounded on his foot when the wall fell, the other seems like will go blind from shrapnel wound to the eye, morons.




Their hero’s, defending Ukraine against Russian Nazis. 

May they have a full recovery

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Apollon said:


> I think you dont get it?
> 
> Russia is obliterated in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> And inside Russia Ukraine blows up important infrastructure and Russia can do nothing against it. Who would have thought that?
> 
> 
> Its important to rise the costs of this war for russia on incredible levels. Kill as much troops as possible. Destroy their equipment. Attack inside Russia ect.
> 
> The Institute that was burned down was russias rocket development Institute..the damage done there is inmeassureable.
> 
> 
> Also russia has a very low birthrate. Each dead soldier is a family line ending. Ukraine is winning by dragging Russia into the abyss.
> 
> 
> And im more than happy to help with that.




Fyi, Russia has put up a challenge that those who tried it before paid with their lives: They've rejected using the fiat money for trade. By demanding rubles for her gas, Russia blew a hole in the Petro-Dollar dominated fraudulent financial systems. Now, because a precedent was set, it is matter of time others to follow suit.

On the military front, Russia has set goals that are achievable: The liberation of East and South of Ukraine where they have a substantial support from the Russian-speaking population. Once they kicked out or overran the current Ukrainian forces in those regions, they'll stay and settle for good. 

On the economic front, as long as China and India and others are buying Russian energy, they'll have money for the war.

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## PakFactor

F-22Raptor said:


> Their hero’s, defending Ukraine against Russian Nazis.
> 
> May they have a full recovery



I agree, send more hero's please to fight the Russian Nazis.

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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> On the economic front, as long as China and India and others are buying Russian energy, they'll have money for the war.


there will always be money for war. The question is what are you missing out on as you spend it all on war.


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## Apollon

thetutle said:


> What clowns. Greeks. What cant more greeks be like @Apollon
> 
> I'm not even convinced @Aplollon is greek.



Im half german and half greek. That said dont say greek clowns. Like all countries we have our 10% idiots


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Apollon said:


> Love your lies. Germany has never said to pay in Rubles and Chancellor Scholz explicit stated its paid in Euro.
> 
> 
> Thats how your Propaganda works. Throwing dirt into the room and thinking others dont check it. Suprise! I live in Germany.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519251284695605248

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## Apollon

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519251284695605248



Bullshit since Germany has not accepted.


Your fake al akbar shupki budki site tells bullshit. 


Here directly from Chancellor: 










Germany to pay for gas in euros despite Russia’s rouble decree, says Scholz


Government activates emergency plan to manage supplies and pleads with households and industry to be sparing with usage




www.theguardian.com

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## thetutle

Apollon said:


> Im half german and half greek. That said dont say greek clowns. Like all countries we have our 10% idiots


im half joking. Most greeks, vast majority are fine people. but their politics I cant say is acceptable to me, there always opposite to me on every issue. both right wing greek and left wing greeks. 

I even know a greek married to a turk, and nope, we still cant agree. 

lol, you're the only only one I agree with. And you're only half greek lol. So it makes sense,

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Viet said:


> If you ask the Turks in Cologne, a city in Germany, they will vote for Erdogan.
> If you ask chinese in London Chinatown they will vote for Xi Jingping. Russia itself was ruled by a German native.
> You can’t use own people in foreign countries as fifth column.
> Blowing up own bridges to slow down enemy advance is not new invented in Ukraine.



The Russian-speaking population in Donbass aren't the "fifth column" as you put it; they're the overwhelming majority of the people who settle there. The DPR and LPR forces who are doing the majority of the fighting are from this region. 
in the South, there is also a large Russian population. 
Blowing up bridges means an army that is on back-footing.

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## Apollon

thetutle said:


> im half joking. Most greeks, vast majority are fine people. but their politics I cant say is acceptable to me, there always opposite to me on every issue. both right wing greek and left wing greeks.
> 
> I even know a greek married to a turk, and nope, we still cant agree.
> 
> lol, you're the only only one I agree with. And you're only half greek lol. So it makes sense,



As i said, we have 10% morons, russia 5th columns and so on. Ignore them, our own government ignores them


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## thetutle

Apollon said:


> As i said, we have 10% morons, russia 5th columns and so on. Ignore them, our own government ignores them


The government is doing a great job. And it is democratically elected. so that says something about the people.



https://www.klix.ba/vijesti/bih/bh-ministar-stasa-kosarac-glasao-protiv-suspenzije-rusije-iz-svjetske-turisticke-organizacije/220427156



Russia got suspended from the UN Tourism body. The Bosnian Representative, a serb minister who makes his own decisions as minister, voted for Russia not to be kicked out. 

But Russians left, before they could be kicked out. They said they dont want to be a part of it. 

Sooooo, Russians leave an organisation, serbs vote to make them stay. I cant figure out if thats an anti Russian thing to do, or a Russian butt licking thing to do.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Apollon said:


> Bullshit since Germany has not accepted.
> 
> 
> Your fake al akbar shupki budki site tells bullshit.
> 
> 
> Here directly from Chancellor:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Germany to pay for gas in euros despite Russia’s rouble decree, says Scholz
> 
> 
> Government activates emergency plan to manage supplies and pleads with households and industry to be sparing with usage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com



You need to read more and stay current with the news instead of running with an old article. 👇

"It appears that Putin's gambit is working.

One day after Russia halted natgas supplies to Poland and Bulgaria due to "nonpayment in rubles", confirming that the country is willing to go ahead with its bluff and shut down supplies to "unfriendly" nations and sending European nat gas prices soaring, Bloomberg reports citing a person close to Russian gas giant Gazprom, that already Europe's fake united front is cracking as *four European gas buyers have already paid for supplies in rubles* *as Russia demanded *even as further cutoffs if others refuse the Kremlin’s requirement aren’t likely until the second half of May, when the next payments are due.

While it was unclear which are the four companies violating EU directives and paying directly in rubles, according to Reuters Germany' Uniper and Austrian OMV are among the companies that have folded to Kremlin' demands:


GERMAN UNIPER CO SAYS PAYMENT SCHEME FOR RUSSIAN GAS IN RUBLES DOES NOT CONTRADICT THE SANCTIONS AND IT IS POSSIBLE TO PAY IN RUBLES - OFFICIAL
AUSTRIA AND THE AUSTRIAN OMV HAS ACCEPTED THE TERMS OF PAYMENT FOR RUSSIAN GAS IN RUBLES - AUSTRIAN CHANCELLOR"

Source: https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/four-european-gas-buyers-fold-russian-demands-pay-gas-rubles

You can also read this news from this reputable Turkish news source 👇



https://www.aa.com.tr/en/energy/natural-gas/germany-and-austria-to-pay-in-rubles-for-russian-gas-/35223

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## Apollon

thetutle said:


> The government is doing a great job. And it is democratically elected. so that says something about the people.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.klix.ba/vijesti/bih/bh-ministar-stasa-kosarac-glasao-protiv-suspenzije-rusije-iz-svjetske-turisticke-organizacije/220427156
> 
> 
> 
> Russia got suspended from the UN Tourism body. The Bosnian Representative, a serb minister who makes his own decisions as minister, voted for Russia not to be kicked out.
> 
> But Russians left, before they could be kicked out. They said they dont want to be a part of it.
> 
> Sooooo, Russians leave an organisation, serbs vote to make them stay. I cant figure out if thats an anti Russian thing to do, or a Russian butt licking thing to do.



Serbs being serbs. They see themself as eternal victims. Just look how that overpaid tennis player acted in australia, serbia saw this as decleration of war from australia and issued bizarre statements, its a ridicolous country

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## Vergennes

lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519372564644220930


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## thetutle

Apollon said:


> Serbs being serbs. They see themself as eternal victims. Just look how that overpaid tennis player acted in australia, serbia saw this as decleration of war from australia and issued bizarre statements, its a ridicolous country


Well they certainly do see them selves as victims and it holds them back. 

Djokovic, you may or may not know, is half Croatian. He is obviously an anti vaxer, and regularly get his "ozone treatments" in a cave in Bosnia. So he's obviously also nuts. 

But he's the best sportsman that ever was and ever will be in our linguistic region, so we kind of think he's alright. And he's usually a voice of reason and reconciliation in our region. 

Unfortunately, his vax views are not too different form most of the people in the balkans. 

They asked one serb in Bosnia on TV, what's the best vaccine for covid in the world. He thought about it and thoughtfully said, "hmmm the Russian one, definitely". 

then hey asked him, "will you be getting that one". 

His response: "hah! NEVER". 

You could not make this stuff up.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519352003054514177


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## Apollon

thetutle said:


> Well they certainly do see them selves as victims and it holds them back.
> 
> Djokovic, you may or may not know, is half Croatian. He is obviously an anti vaxer, and regularly get his "ozone treatments" in a cave in Bosnia. So he's obviously also nuts.
> 
> But he's the best sportsman that ever was and ever will be in our linguistic region, so we kind of think he's alright. And he's usually a voice of reason and reconciliation in our region.
> 
> Unfortunately, his vax views are not too different form most of the people in the balkans.
> 
> They asked one serb in Bosnia on TV, what's the best vaccine for covid in the world. He thought about it and thoughtfully said, "hmmm the Russian one, definitely".
> 
> then hey asked him, "will you be getting that one".
> 
> His response: "hah! NEVER".
> 
> You could not make this stuff up.



As i said, we are lucky their numbers are low enough to ignore them.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Ukrainians are digging trenches within towns, villages, and cities. They should've been digging their them outside the towns and cities, that way there is minimal damage to these towns, villages, and cities.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519351013748191232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519347094888325120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519348782898495489

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## Apollon

Vergennes said:


> lmao
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519372564644220930



What i dont get...almost all russian soldiers in those videos appear to have puffy faces and reddish skin. I guess drug abuse?


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Apollon said:


> As i said, we are lucky their numbers are low enough to ignore them.



I thought Greeks are Orthodox Christians same as Russians. Are you an anomaly?


----------



## jamal18

Apollon said:


> Bullshit since Germany has not accepted.
> 
> 
> Your fake al akbar shupki budki site tells bullshit.
> 
> 
> Here directly from Chancellor:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Germany to pay for gas in euros despite Russia’s rouble decree, says Scholz
> 
> 
> Government activates emergency plan to manage supplies and pleads with households and industry to be sparing with usage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com


I believe all countries in Europe are paying in roubles. They are opening two accounts in Gazprom, paying in euros which the bank then sells and buys roubles.

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## mulj

I respedt real politics and real life interests from the various states around the globe including muslim ones but i find it really strange to simp for russia from oridnary muslim people, i get that west was ill itended and conducted lot of injustice towards muslims but that does not justify simping amd chearing for western bad copy aka russia. It is insane.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Western-provided loitering munitions shot down.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519345294898610176


mulj said:


> I respedt real politics and real life interests from the various states around the globe including muslim ones but i find it really strange to simp for russia from oridnary muslim people, i get that west was ill itended and conducted lot of injustice towards muslims but that does not justify simping amd chearing for western bad copy aka russia. It is insane.



You're entitled to your own opinion. 

In this world, there is haqq (righteousness) and baatil (evil). In this war, Russia is on the side of righteousness. At some point, someone needs to confront the empire of the Antichrist. Goodness grief, Russia has a leader like Vladimir Putin and not Boris Yeltsin.

Do we easily forgot the genocide committed against Iraq, Syria, Libya, Palestine, Afghanistan, Somalia, Yemen, and other places? May Allah (swt) destroy the Western hegemonic empire.

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## Apollon

jamal18 said:


> I believe all countries in Europe are paying in roubles. They are opening two accounts in Gazprom, paying in euros which the bank then sells and buys roubles.



Thats exactly as before. No european country pays in ruble. All pay in Euro. What russia does internal is their thing, they can change it in their worthless paper as they wish. 


Best would be of course if the pipelines get blown up . We need a complete cut with russia in all fields as fast as possible.



mulj said:


> I respedt real politics and real life interests from the various states around the globe including muslim ones but i find it really strange to simp for russia from oridnary muslim people, i get that west was ill itended and conducted lot of injustice towards muslims but that does not justify simping amd chearing for western bad copy aka russia. It is insane.



Its insane but also irrelevant. They are powerless bystanders.

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## DF41

PakFactor said:


> One got wounded on his foot when the wall fell, the other seems like will go blind from shrapnel wound to the eye, morons, but it's all good I want more of these people to go into the grinder keep it flowing.



I looking forward to more such good news being send to USA volunteers.

And to Israelis to remain forever young in Ukraine together with those that wear the swastika and parading to Horst Wessel Lied.

Israelis will find out how it be like when they not fighting boys and girls and those Palestinians kids and men disarmed by USA and USA cartels while USA and USA cartels supplied arms to Israel.

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## Elvin

mulj said:


> I respedt real politics and real life interests from the various states around the globe including muslim ones but i find it really strange to simp for russia from oridnary muslim people, i get that west was ill itended and conducted lot of injustice towards muslims but that does not justify simping amd chearing for western bad copy aka russia. It is insane.



It's okay, most Arabs are still figuring out what a nation state is and what international politics are and most are uniformed about a lot/lost primarily due to the fact that most such countries are governed by a king/family who are incompetent and or strong men / dictators who have low IQs. . Many will side with the West as long as the US supports them and be quick to side with Russia/China if they are picked on by the US/West. The same goes for all other Muslim countries with the exception of Turkey and Iran which have a strong identity and culture.

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## RoadAmerica

RescueRanger said:


> I tune in every day to this thread for the finest compilations of propaganda and memes. It's better than reddit at the moment
> 
> 
> I wonder how much Putin paid fatboy to carry on with this charade, is he Steven Segal's personal assistant?


I’m thinking assistant to JCVD 🤣


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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I thought Greeks are Orthodox Christians same as Russians. Are you an anomaly?


He is more qualified to answer but from what I know they are the same broad church. But orthodox churches are very ethnically based. 

So if you married a Serb, not likely, but if you did, you couldn’t really be Serbian orthodox very easily. Like you need to speak Serbian for everything, including sacraments I think. 

If I married a Serbian orthodox, very very unlikely, I could be easily accepted because of the linguistic and ethnic similarities. Of course I would rather die than become orthodox. I’d become Jewish or even a Hindu and bathe in that open sewer, before I’d become Serbian orthodox. 

I also know that a Serbian I know goes to greek church when there are no Serbian ones around. And all he does is complain about the Greeks. 

And if you put a Greek Orthodox together with a Serb orthodox and a Ukranian orthodox and you lock them in a room. 2 people will die. 

Theologically. Most orthodox churches are pretty normal. Greek. Romanian. Ukranian etc etc. 

The Russian one is very corrupt and nationalistic. And the Serbian one is little more than a terrorist organisation. And in my opinion should be classified as such.


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## DF41



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## PakFactor

mulj said:


> I respedt real politics and real life interests from the various states around the globe including muslim ones but i find it really strange to simp for russia from oridnary muslim people, i get that west was ill itended and conducted lot of injustice towards muslims but that does not justify simping amd chearing for western bad copy aka russia. It is insane.



You have certain segments of Muslims that would boot lick and hold the white mans balls (it's encoded in there genes can't do anything about it), and then you have others who are egging it on cause its a white-on-white killing spree.

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## Apollon

PakFactor said:


> You have certain segments of Muslims that would boot lick and hold the white mans balls (it's encoded in there genes can't do anything about it), and then you have others who are egging it on cause its a white-on-white killing spree.


Interesting fact, most who will die from it are muslims. Ukraine is one of worlds largest wheat producers and the hardest hit area are muslim countries in middle east and northern africa. UNO says humanity faces worlds worst hunger desaster since last 50 years.


Sure thats a bit complex for people who have in many cases not even basic education.


----------



## mulj

Elvin said:


> It's okay, most Arabs are still figuring out what a nation state is and what international politics are and most are uniformed about a lot/lost primarily due to the fact that most such countries are governed by a king/family who are incompetent and or strong men / dictators who have low IQs. . Many will side with the West as long as the US supports them and be quick to side with Russia/China if they are picked on by the US/West. The same goes for all other Muslim countries with the exception of Turkey and Iran which have a strong identity and culture.





Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Western-provided loitering munitions shot down.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519345294898610176
> 
> 
> You're entitled to your own opinion.
> 
> In this world, there is haqq (righteousness) and baatil (evil). In this war, Russia is on the side of righteousness. At some point, someone needs to confront the empire of the Antichrist. Goodness grief, Russia has a leader like Vladimir Putin and not Boris Yeltsin.
> 
> Do we easily forgot the genocide committed against Iraq, Syria, Libya, Palestine, Afghanistan, Somalia, Yemen, and other places? May Allah (swt) destroy the Western hegemonic empire.


May Allah destroy nobody instead direct them on right path.
On the other points, what you said is emotional and imature muslims should behave and conduct with selfrespect without meddling into other states bussines and try to improve overall wellbeing of themself trough cooperation and improving their own societies. Simping for russia expecting that they will somehow destroy evil west is position of weekness and shortsightness.
Guys from whom you usually post tweets are all wel known muslim haters and evil apologets of various crikes conducted from russia and their allies towards muslims. That is not Haq.

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## Apollon

DF41 said:


>



Russia economy is 1.4% of world economy, smaller than spain. There are companies in USA with bigger economy than Russia. So answer for you: russia could not even marginalize Samoa

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## WotTen

mulj said:


> I respedt real politics and real life interests from the various states around the globe including muslim ones but i find it really strange to simp for russia from oridnary muslim people, i get that west was ill itended and conducted lot of injustice towards muslims but that does not justify simping amd chearing for western bad copy aka russia. It is insane.



The main reason is that Muslim countries are mostly irrelevant basket cases on the global stage, so Muslims have to live vicariously through other countries.

Even the handful of Muslim countries which matter do so only because of resources which are explored and extracted by foreign companies. Truth be told, even Russia depends on Western companies and technology to explore and extract its oil and gas reserves, which means the oil/gas revenue will dry up if Western companies boycott Russia.

Incidentally, this is also the reason for Islamic terrorism. When the Muslim governments are impotent or obsequious towards those countries which attack Islam or kill Muslims, then individual vigilantes take over. 

By comparison, US calls out any country that attacks Christians. Israel, through its influence in the US and Europe, makes sure that anyone who insults Jewish sensibilities gets instantly pummelled into the ground economically.

If there was a Muslim superpower on the global stage, then Islamic terrorism would disappear overnight.

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## mulj

PakFactor said:


> You have certain segments of Muslims that would boot lick and hold the white mans balls (it's encoded in there genes can't do anything about it), and then you have others who are egging it on cause its a white-on-white killing spree.


It is real strange phenomena, me personally follow this war purely from technical perspetive. 
Islamic world should check how Tyrkie conducts in this conflict and learn something from it


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## PakFactor

Apollon said:


> Interesting fact, most who will die from it are muslims. Ukraine is one of worlds largest wheat producers and the hardest hit area are muslim countries in middle east and northern africa. UNO says humanity faces worlds worst hunger desaster since last 50 years.
> 
> 
> Sure thats a bit complex for people who have in many cases not even basic education.



1st the Arabs were living on dates and goat milk for centuries and they'll live even without wheat and Pepsi. *Honestly, this is all the West has to see the Middle East to choose and it's laughable.*
2nd Pakistan makes enough in-house it wouldn't matter to us, the trade between South Asian nations will balance things out.
3rd Africa... don't know what to say they'll live, not like last the 40+ years of UNO humanitarian relief made it an Utopia.


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## mulj

WotTen said:


> Incidentally, this is also the reason for Islamic terrorism. When the Muslim governments are impotent or obsequious towards those governments who attack Islam or kill Muslims, then individual vigilantes take over. If there was a Muslim superpower on the global stage, then Islamic terrorism would disappear overnight.


this is spot on and dire necessity maybe not in form of one super power but some sort of firm block of couple countries. In past i saw possibility that would be triangle between Tyrkie, Iran and Pakistan but now it seems impossible

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## nang2

WotTen said:


> The main reason is that Muslim countries are mostly irrelevant basket cases on the global stage, so Muslims have to live vicariously through other countries.
> 
> Even the handful of Muslim countries which matter do so only because of resources which are explored and extracted by foreign companies. Truth be told, even Russia depends on Western companies and technology to explore and extract its oil and gas reserves, which means the oil/gas revenue will dry up if Western companies boycott Russia.
> 
> Incidentally, this is also the reason for Islamic terrorism. When the Muslim governments are impotent or obsequious towards those governments who attack Islam or kill Muslims, then individual vigilantes take over. If there was a Muslim superpower on the global stage, then Islamic terrorism would disappear overnight.


While I agree that with a muslim superpower, islamic terrorism would disappear, I don't think the lack of muslim superpower is the reason why islamic terrorism exists. Being a terrorist is a very precarious career. Very few people want to be a terrorist. For terrorism to appear and sustain, you not only need hatred but also encouragement and support, particularly material support. The latter part seems to be a specialty of US, which helped create terrorist groups to wage proxy wars for them. The recent news from Ukraine show the increased practice of terrorism by the NATO-armed Ukrainians. It is an easy transition from being a Nazi to being a terrorist. Both attack civilians without remorse.


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## Apollon

PakFactor said:


> 1st the Arabs were living on dates and goat milk for centuries and they'll live even without wheat and Pepsi. *Honestly, this is all the West has to see the Middle East to choose and it's laughable.*
> 2nd Pakistan makes enough in-house it wouldn't matter to us, the trade between South Asian nations will balance things out.
> 3rd Africa... don't know what to say they'll live, not like last the 40+ years of UNO humanitarian relief made it an Utopia.



Food prices explode evrywhere and in many north african nations the poor start to starve. 

The populations in many north african countries exploded in last 50 years. Dates and goat milk is not enough to sustain them.









Arab world’s wheat crisis should prompt change


As the old Arab proverb goes, “Life without bread is not life.” So central is bread to Arab alimentation that, in some countries, it is known as “aish” — literally life. It is little surprise, therefore, that Arab countries are some of the largest importers of wheat in the world, with the 13,000...




www.arabnews.com







nang2 said:


> While I agree that with a muslim superpower, islamic terrorism would disappear, I don't think the lack of muslim superpower is the reason why islamic terrorism exists. Being a terrorist is a very precarious career. Very few people want to be a terrorist. For terrorism to appear and sustain, you not only need hatred but also encouragement and support, particularly material support. The latter part seems to be a specialty of US, which helped create terrorist groups to wage proxy wars for them. The recent news from Ukraine show the increased practice of terrorism by the NATO-armed Ukrainians. It is an easy transition from being a Nazi to being a terrorist. Both attack civilians without remorse.




Your russian propaganda is getting laughable.


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## WotTen

mulj said:


> this is spot on and dire necessity maybe not in form of one super power but some sort of firm block of couple countries. In past i saw possibility that would be triangle between Tyrkie, Iran and Pakistan but now it seems impossible



Never going to happen.

Turkey has schizophrenic ambitions to either join Europe or recreate the Ottoman Empire as an influence sphere.

Iran has delusions to recreate the Persian Empire of Cyrus, at least in terms of dominating influence.

Pakistan is hopelessly corrupt to the core: the military/political/media power structure is compromised and full of American slaves as we just saw this month.

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## PakFactor

mulj said:


> It is real strange phenomena, me personally follow this war purely from technical perspetive.
> Islamic world should check how Tyrkie conducts in this conflict and learn something from it



Long run Turkey's conduct will not get it anywhere, there in the same position as @Elvin stated regarding other Islamic states their impotent. 

One thing I will teach you as I have used it in my business to destroy and eliminate other competitors you egg both sides to the point they will throw money at a problem to ruin themselves and you come and pick up the pieces. Twelve years back I did that while holding my contracts back in a massive real estate deal both sides wanted my position on. Through back channel engagement by using a third party who will bid high but drop out forcing the other two to fight it out, I forced both sides to out bid each other to the point they both went bust as they were in a race to acquire real estate worth $ 20,000,000, except they didn't have financial muscle left for rehab work and they were already over leveraged. Forced into bankruptcy, I come in and acquire the assets along with my team for approx. 1/3 the value.

Muslims need to learn how to destroy the enemy and weaken others, without firing a bullet. What's right/wrong doesn't matter as long the end result is your preservation.

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## WotTen

nang2 said:


> While I agree that with a muslim superpower, islamic terrorism would disappear, I don't think the lack of muslim superpower is the reason why islamic terrorism exists. Being a terrorist is a very precarious career. Very few people want to be a terrorist. For terrorism to appear and sustain, you not only need hatred but also encouragement and support, particularly material support. The latter part seems to be a specialty of US, which helped create terrorist groups to wage proxy wars for them. The recent news from Ukraine show the increased practice of terrorism by the NATO-armed Ukrainians. It is an easy transition from being a Nazi to being a terrorist. Both attack civilians without remorse.



To motivate someone to kill themselves and others, you need to brainwash them that some great injustice is being committed and there is no one else to avenge it. The reason individual Christians or Jews don't go blowing themselves up around the world is because power countries pick up their cause and take offenders to task.


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## nang2

WotTen said:


> To motivate someone to kill themselves and others, you need to brainwash them that some great injustice is being committed and there is no one else to avenge it. The reason individual Christians or Jews don't go blowing themselves up around the world is because power countries pick up their cause and take offenders to task.


Not only that, you also need to brainwash them to think their enemies as non-humans. It is much easier to kill an animal than to kill a human. That is where Nazism and terrorism are close to each other. For Nazis, the racial purity and superiority are paramount. To think your own race to be supreme, you need to think everyone else, particularly your enemy, is below you. For terrorism, using Islamic terrorism as an example, you must think your enemy not fellow muslims. They are infidels and brutes. Nazism is like state terrorism.

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## mulj

WotTen said:


> Never going to happen.
> 
> Turkey has schizophrenic ambitions to either join Europe or recreate the Ottoman Empire as an influence sphere.
> 
> Iran has delusions to recreate the Persian Empire of Cyrus, at least in terms of dominating influence.
> 
> Pakistan is hopelessly corrupt to the core: the military/political/media power structure is compromised and full of American slaves as we just saw this month.


It seems so for current state of affairs but you can always decrease goals and work on elimination of contemporay society isssues such are education, economy, commitment to developement. In that sense i am moderate optimist and for rest we can only hope to the best.


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## Elvin

PakFactor said:


> You have certain segments of Muslims that would boot lick and hold the white mans balls (it's encoded in there genes can't do anything about it), and then you have others who are egging it on cause its a white-on-white killing spree.



Muslims who think like that and cheer on killing sprees because of race and see race as one of the primary factors is not Muslim.


----------



## mulj

PakFactor said:


> Long run Turkey's conduct will not get it anywhere, there in the same position as @Elvin stated regarding other Islamic states their impotent.
> 
> One thing I will teach you as I have used it in my business to destroy and eliminate other competitors you egg both sides to the point they will throw money at a problem to ruin themselves and you come and pick up the pieces. Twelve years back I did that while holding my contracts back in a massive real estate deal both sides wanted my position on. Through back channel engagement by using a third party who will bid high but drop out forcing the other two to fight it out, I forced both sides to out bid each other to the point they both went bust as they were in a race to acquire real estate worth $ 20,000,000, except they didn't have financial muscle left for rehab work and they were already over leveraged. Forced into bankruptcy, I come in and acquire the assets along with my team for approx. 1/3 the value.
> 
> Muslims need to learn how to destroy the enemy and weaken others, without firing a bullet. What's right/wrong doesn't matter as long the end result is your preservation.


Maybe you are right but muslim world can use Tyrkie as major power house for technological and economy advancement, they are now in perfect spot for such path but only if envy as main sikness is overcomed and if the proper long term vision is present for longer period of time.


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## PakFactor

Elvin said:


> Muslims who think like that and cheer on killing sprees because of race and see race as one of the primary factors is not Muslim.



That doesn't fall into the criteria if one is Muslim or not, sorry. It's a mute point.



mulj said:


> Maybe you are right but muslim world can use Tyrkie as major power house for technological and economy advancement, they are now in perfect spot for such path but only if envy as main sikness is overcomed and if the proper long term vision is present for longer period of time.



I agree using Turkey as base and expanding it is what needs to be done at this hour -- however, we have incompetency for example in Pak Armed Forces we are late to adopting MRAPs, Drones, etc., we wait for example India to make an acquisition before we do ours it's stupidity has no bounds (don't get me wrong I have members of my family in Pak Armed Forces). Just look at how the West adopted drones into portable kill switch drones, you don't see the likes of Pakistan or anyone else taking technology and adopting it usefully. 

We have a useless education and work ethic culture across the Islamic World, that produce useless leader's for civil and military purposes on top we have a reactive mindset rather than a proactive mindset.

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## jamal18

PakFactor said:


> You have certain segments of Muslims that would boot lick and hold the white mans balls (it's encoded in there genes can't do anything about it), and then you have others who are egging it on cause its a white-on-white killing spree.


A bit simplistic. Yes, but there are other views.

The US empire has bombed and murdered its way through the post-war era. They are so drunk with power they think that they can get away with anything.

They've just driven into a concrete block. This is the end of the West as a global enforcer. As these events will accelerate the death of the dollar, it is also the end of the American empire.

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## Type59

Vergennes said:


> lmao
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519372564644220930



T 64 is predominantly used by UKR. I suspect they painted Z to signify capture.


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## oberschlesier

jamal18 said:


> They've just driven into a concrete block. This is the end of the West as a global enforcer. As these events will accelerate the death of the dollar, it is also the end of the American empire.


Russia, which is less than 2% of the world economy will cause the death of the Dollar ? I rather see, that the value of the USD is rather increasing, than decreasing lately.

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519268192589340672
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519268452200062977



I'm getting understanding that Ukrainians took decision to not to counterattack opportunistically beyond these quick pushbacks, and preserve forces until proper counterattack can be mounted.

I wouldn't call exact locations, but it's pretty clear Ukraine is now building a force of 2-3 proper divisions in the rear from territorials, and forces recovering in Kiyv.

Kiyv, and Lviv regions.

I see Russian movement in Moldaweiya as a diversion to disturb these new reserves. Russians don't have enough troops there to do anything really consequential.

Similarly, Ukrainian staybehinds are degrading Russian cohesion by dragging entire regiments into screen duty in the rear, and weakening Russian AA, artillery fobs, and taking down officers, in preparation for an attempt to collapse Russian frontlines.

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## jamal18

oberschlesier said:


> Russia, which is less than 2% of the world economy will cause the death of the Dollar ? I rather see, that the value of the USD is rather increasing, than decreasing lately.


We're not talking a day to day shift. I believe all China/ Russia trade now excludes the dollar, that's a lot of trade. The saudis are selling oil to China in Yuan. If this is the end of the petrodollar than it's game over for the US dollar.

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## _Nabil_

Apollon said:


> Food prices explode evrywhere and in many north african nations the poor start to starve.


Darnit, I'm starving to death but not aware of it 😁

Only item discontinued in Tunisia is the "Tournesol" Oil, just like many European countries

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## oberschlesier

jamal18 said:


> We're not talking a day to day shift. I believe all China/ Russia trade now excludes the dollar, that's a lot of trade. The saudis are selling oil to China in Yuan. If this is the end of the petrodollar than it's game over for the US dollar.


The Dollar is not only backed by oil, but as well by US Financial, Technological and Soft Power. In the Future the fossil fuels will graduately become less important and this will be a Problem for Russia and some Countries in the Middle East. Actualy this war, will speed up the Green Revolution in Europe.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519270513687904257

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519320927208718339

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519351013748191232


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519414156792934405


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## mulj

oberschlesier said:


> The Dollar is not only backed by oil, but as well by US Financial, Technological and Soft Power. In the Future the fossil fuels will graduately become less important and this will be a Problem for Russia and some Countries in the Middle East. Actualy this war, will speed up the Green Revolution in Europe.


Tnis green revolution hoax should be banned from public discourse,even if there would be significant move in that direction, resources for that so called revolutiom are out of the reach of western countries.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

oberschlesier said:


> The Dollar is not only backed by oil, but as well by US Financial, Technological and Soft Power. In the Future the fossil fuels will graduately become less important and this will be a Problem for Russia and some Countries in the Middle East. Actualy this war, will speed up the Green Revolution in Europe.



US soft power is limited. US is too geographically isolated to impose hegemony. The world centers on Afro-Eurasia. US is only in the periphery. To impose hegemony, US must hold territory in the old world.

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## oberschlesier

mulj said:


> Tnis green revolution hoax should be banned from public discourse,even if there would be significant move in that direction, resources for that so called revolutiom are out of the reach of western countries.


Why hoax ? It`s already happening.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519297991886008320

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519299208284721152


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519414978075369472
45 US howitzers have been delivered

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519421314443923461


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519414978075369472
> 45 US howitzers have been delivered



Americans howitzers don't last long with Russian armed drones in the sky.

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## Philip the Arab

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519414978075369472
> 45 US howitzers have been delivered


Real question is, how can they be protected from long range strikes, and UAV strikes from the Russian military?


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## _Nabil_

mulj said:


> Tnis green revolution hoax should be banned from public discourse,even if there would be significant move in that direction, resources for that so called revolutiom are out of the reach of western countries.


Only solution to European countries is to rely again on nuclear energy, buts it against the trend in their populations, unless an opinion shift


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## oberschlesier

Tai Hai Chen said:


> US soft power is limited. US is too geographically isolated to impose hegemony. The world centers on Afro-Eurasia. US is only in the periphery. To impose hegemony, US must hold territory in the old world.


You seriuously believe, that the biggest economy in the world is periphery ?


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Philip the Arab said:


> Real question is, how can they be protected from long range strikes, and UAV strikes from the Russian military?



Ukraine had 100 howitzers and they lost them all to air and artillery strikes. How long would 90 American howitzers last? Especially in eastern Ukraine where Ukrainians are vulnerable to ambush. Also, some of these M777 howitzers will no doubt be captured by Russians for study and reverse engineering.

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## Philip the Arab

I agree with your assessment @Tai Hai Chen that the role that these play will highly depend on whether Russians are able to take them out quickly enough.

They may even use higher tier assets such as Iskanders, and Kalibrs for this task.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519424284090945538


Philip the Arab said:


> I agree with your assessment @Tai Hai Chen that the role that these play will highly depend on whether Russians are able to take them out quickly enough.
> 
> They may even use higher tier assets such as Iskanders, and Kalibrs for this task.



Smerch using 120 km range GLONASS guided rounds can destroy M777 from a distance.

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## mulj

_Nabil_ said:


> Only solution to European countries is to rely again on nuclear energy, buts it against the trend in their populations, unless an opinion shift


It is silly to tHink tha fossil fuels will diminish and become less imporfant, there are plenty of countries who would use it as cheap source of energy for developement as long there are oil and gas, fancy EV are just novelty and feel good items for woked population.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

oberschlesier said:


> You seriuously believe, that the biggest economy in the world is periphery ?



The old world is Africa, Europe, Asia. Americas is backwater, so is Australia and New Zealand. If you look at a globe, you see how geographically isolated the US is. Heck, native Americans never even left the stone age because of geographic isolation. Ditto Australia and New Zealand.


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## _Nabil_

mulj said:


> It is silly to tHink tha fossil fuels will diminish and become less imporfant, there are plenty of countries who would use it as cheap source of energy for developement as long there are oil and gas, fancy EV are just novelty and feel good items for woked population.


Of course, nothing will replace fossil fuels, gas and dams, for the next 50 years.

solar & wind energies will never be sufficient even for a small village.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519353438592712706


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## mulj

oberschlesier said:


> Why hoax ? It`s already happening.


It happens but it does not have impact on oil and other resources consumption, oil demand will continue to increaee, that western centric view is annoying.
And you now those cars still needs metals, minerals, oil and energy to be on roads and move around.


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## Philip the Arab

_Nabil_ said:


> Of course, nothing will replace fossil fuels, gas and dams, for the next 50 years.
> 
> solar & wind energies will never be sufficient even for a small village.


Statements that talk about replacing them in 10-15 years are pure copium by non oil/gas producing countries.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519410072585216003

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## Paul2

Philip the Arab said:


> Statements that talk about replacing them in 10-15 years are pure copium by non oil/gas producing countries.



I can hear Abu Dhabi laughing from here.

Of course it's nears being physically impossible.

Even if they will rush building nuclear plants with all construction equipment they physically have right now, there is no way they can build more than 30-40 plants simultaneously.

EU's steel, and concrete industries will too max out at around that number.

Realistically, they would be limited to around 20 NPPs even if they had a partially mobilised wartime command economy.

This does not preclude however that they cannot do something to reduce energy usage without major consequences.

Germany for example can stop subsidising its own energy exports based on Russian gas.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519428674868723713

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## Philip the Arab

Paul2 said:


> I can hear Abu Dhabi laughing from here


I think that oil/gas can be replaced in the long term but that drastic of a change worldwide in such a short period of time is unrealistic.

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## _Nabil_

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519428674868723713


Strange how Europeans countries are giving away their arm stocks, what if they found themselves in a confrontation with Russia?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

_Nabil_ said:


> Strange how Europeans countries are giving away their arm stocks, what if they found themselves in a confrontation with Russia?



Russia has no beef with those small European countries. Only with Ukrainian traitors.


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## oberschlesier

mulj said:


> It is silly to tHink tha fossil fuels will diminish and become less imporfant, there are plenty of countries who would use it as cheap source of energy for developement as long there are oil and gas, fancy EV are just novelty and feel good items for woked population.


Sure, they will. ofc Not so fast for transportation, but for electricy generation definitely, expecially in Europe. Renewable energy already covers > 20% of the EU Power generation and it`s growing.

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## mulj

Philip the Arab said:


> I think that oil/gas can be replaced in the long term but that drastic of a change worldwide in such a short period of time is unrealistic.


It can be replaced shortly right after the capitalism cease to exist as main global force, otherwise it is holy grail for idealistic people.
But even with that overall consumption would not decrease much it would be just transfered as service to support that so called green revolution which is all but not that.
Only artificial sun could make impactfull difference but that is another utopian thing.


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## oberschlesier

Tai Hai Chen said:


> The old world is Africa, Europe, Asia. Americas is backwater, so is Australia and New Zealand. If you look at a globe, you see how geographically isolated the US is. Heck, native Americans never even left the stone age because of geographic isolation. Ditto Australia and New Zealand.


US is suprisingly Powerful for backwater.

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## mulj

oberschlesier said:


> Sure, they will. ofc Not so fast for transportation, but for electricy generation definitely, expecially in Europe. Renewable energy already covers > 20% of the EU Power generation and it`s growing.


I was not aware that europeans use oil for electricity production...every electric energy engenier will tell you that is impossible to project stable and big power grid with renewable, those are all things for media show and politicians to take votes from population who cares about ecology.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519056301434843138

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The weird stories from Western media never stops. They're now pressuring the US Treasury Department to sanction Alina Kabaeva, a young Russian gymnastics girl, whom they suspect of being Vladimir Putin's "girlfriend". What? They're now trying to find out who Putin bangs? Their dumb stories are endless. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519428674868723713

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518842413778882563

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## Hassan Al-Somal

_Nabil_ said:


> Strange how Europeans countries are giving away their arm stocks, what if they found themselves in a confrontation with Russia?




They would lose because at least half of the population in these European countries are transgender - meaning men without balls. Well, if you have a fight between men without balls vs men with their balls, of course the men with their balls will win. This is what we should understand about their hysteria. They know if Russia wins, their whole LGBTQ crap will take a massive hit.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519262083002601473

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519262087356325888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519262095950364672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519262111918088192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519262113470025729

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519262121221046274

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## oberschlesier

mulj said:


> I was not aware that europeans use oil for electricity production...every electric energy engenier will tell you that is impossible to project stable and big power grid with renewable, those are all things for media show and politicians to take votes from population who cares about ecology.



If you grid is designed for big powerstation, that have constant output then yes, it`s dificult. If you modernise the grid, then you can stabilise renewables sources( haundert of tausend of them(!) ) even with modernised Coal(!) Power stations, but Gas is better. Kinda this is how the Power grid in Poland operates... NOW. In Germany is even more crazy. It`s called innovation


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519407954050625537

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519065083250458625


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## mulj

oberschlesier said:


> If you grid is designed for big powerstation, that have constant output then yes, it`s dificult. If you modernise the grid, then you can stabilise renewables sources( haundert of tausend of them(!) ) even with modernised Coal(!) Power stations, but Gas is better. Kinda this is how the Power grid in Poland operates... NOW. In Germany is even more crazy. It`s called innovation


And with that you falling into catch 22, with more EV and other devices you increase demand for EE and that renewable sources can not provide.
I appreciate innovations but you can not innovate laws of physics.

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## Philip the Arab

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519065083250458625


Hahahahah, do they want Georgia invaded too?


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519442365580206080

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## Paul2

Philip the Arab said:


> I think that oil/gas can be replaced in the long term but that drastic of a change worldwide in such a short period of time is unrealistic.



It's not replace or not, but whether they will keep staying on borderline free Russian gas, or start understanding that it comes with a catch unlike gas sold at fair price.

_*Second, is whether they need so much of it at all.*_

Germany's electricity generation is only 10% gas in summer months, because much of cheapo gas turbine plants can only make money during peak winter prices, and through export.

If Germany cracks down on electricity export, Russian gas is done for there.

Non-energy use of natural gas is many, many times smaller than its use for energy. That can be easily covered by imports, and taxpayer money to soften immediate shock.


----


Basically, Germany makes free money with free gas, and that's the only real problem.

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## oberschlesier

mulj said:


> And with that you falling into catch 22, with more EV and other devices you increase demand for EE and that renewable sources can not provide.
> I appreciate innovations but you can not innovate laws of physics.


Why "renewable sources can not provide" ?
It was just not tried yet on super large scale.

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## beast89

Philip the Arab said:


> Hahahahah, do they want Georgia invaded too?



more fuel to the fire, so of course


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519056641722884101


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519411367626874884


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## jamal18

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519065083250458625


Comedy hour.

I guess they never heard the advice ' When in a hole, stop digging'.

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## Philip the Arab

beast89 said:


> more fuel to the fire, so of course


I don’t think the Russians will have much difficulty with Georgia.


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## The SC

Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff to CNN: *The international security system established after World War II is at risk*

@AsharqNewsBrk


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519072156768178176


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519423105218842627


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518347764949782528

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519404309150314496


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## mulj

oberschlesier said:


> Why "renewable sources can not provide" ?
> It was just not tried yet on super large scale



Not stable output same problem like now, on larger scale it would be even worse.
There is solution to use Sahara with solar power plants but guess what, similar dependancy like today

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## Philip the Arab

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519404309150314496


I’m not sure how useful these will be in the way Ukraine will employ them.

I imagine they will try to use them in a way that will lead to their destruction via ATGM/RPG.

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## Paul2

Philip the Arab said:


> I don’t think the Russians will have much difficulty with Georgia.



Georgia? How? They only managed to do 2008 because they were staging for months in plain sight using their "peacekeeper" status.

Otherwise, it's physically impossible for armour to cross Caucasus fast enough to make a bridgehead. Russians threw the towel in 2008 when their main supply line going through the only passable mountain pass was about to be cut off.

Third, the spring weather


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519428534036570112

US Army units heading to the Ukrainian border


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## Philip the Arab

Paul2 said:


> Georgia? How? They only managed to do 2008 because they were staging for months in plain sight using their "peacekeeper" status.
> 
> Otherwise, it's physically impossible for armour to cross Caucasus fast enough to make a bridgehead.


I meant much difficult compared to what they are facing in Ukraine. Do you think it would be harder?


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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519428534036570112
> 
> US Army units heading to the Ukrainian border



These look like upgraded Strykers with 30mm cannons


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519087952957251585
Must have been a heavy cyber attacks!


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519392385133944835

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Paul2

Philip the Arab said:


> I meant much difficult compared to what they are facing in Ukraine. Do you think it would be harder?



Much harder with what they have now.

Georgia will just pound the only road passing the Caucasus, and blow up the tunnels.

Then, they will only have to hold 2-3 chokepoints

Russia can only spare 2 armies at most to send there, and their departure will be for everybody to see.

For as long as Azebaijian is hostile to Russia, they are safe.

Even nukes are of little use in the mountains. Mountain valleys lens the shockwave inside, and whomever is there is doubly screwed, but forces just across the ridge take zero damage.

Similarly, Russian plan to reach Blakans is equally lunatical. To reach their Balkan allies, they will need to pass Bulgaria, and Romania.

Romania is a NATO member, with quite a number of NATO brigades on its territory already, and some minimal military of its own.

If Russia will want to capture Romania itself, they will have to capture Bucharest (1.8m people, concrete construction, subway network.) And even if they somehow manage to beat their regulars there, the rest of Romanian force will run into mountains, and then Russians will be screwed.

Even if they will decide to pass Bucharest at significant distance, they can't bypass Sofia (Negotin route is too vulnerable to attacks from Carpathians, and from Bulgaria itself,) and invading Bulgaria always been a nightmare, ask Turks.

And if they will want to invade Poland, well, half of NATO is already there...

Plainly, and simply Russia can't even dream of invading Europe, and *whether they have a "smart trick plan" to enter Europe through the Baklan backdoor, passing around strongest Western forces doesn't change the fact that it will eventually have to face them anyways if he will want to go further. NATO will not just stand letting Putin have South Europe while knowing that it's a bridgehead.*

It's a sick fantasy, and not a military plan.


----------



## The SC

Photo of volunteer fighters from Finland in Kharkiv








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519100881790287873

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519096881120432131

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519257689469161478
Shameful but not surprising. Russians have even moved around filmed multiple times Ukrainian POWs to inflate their claimed numbers,they are pretty desperate. @F-22Raptor

They are also filming their own losses and claiming they are Ukrainians or filming captured or destroyed Ukrainian equipments,moving them around and filming them on multiple angles....

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519448347358244864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519424284090945538

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519442053444382720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519442053444382720


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519048711745196033


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519417943955808257

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## CAPRICORN-88

Ukraine says sorry to Japan for comparing Emperor Hirohito to Hitler on Twitter
The tweet showing Japan’s wartime emperor alongside Hitler and Mussolini in a video about fascism came from an official Ukrainian government account
It circulated widely over the weekend and prompted an official protest, as it threatened to alienate a country that has been strongly supportive of Ukraine
An official Ukrainian government Twitter account has issued an apology after showing a picture of Japan’s wartime Emperor Hirohito alongside Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini in a social media video about the defeat of fascism.





“Our sincere apologies to Japan for making this mistake,” read a message on the Ukrainian Twitter feed. “We had no intention to offend the friendly people of Japan.” An edited version of the video without Hirohito’s picture was appended to the post.





The tweet had circulated widely over the weekend and prompted an official protest from Japan. It also threatened to alienate some conservatives from the Ukrainian cause in a country that has been strongly supportive of President Volodymyr Zelensky since the Russian invasion began.



Japan fought World War II in the name of Hirohito, who was revered as a god until he renounced his divinity after Japan’s defeat. Historical evaluations of his role in the war remain divided. He is known posthumously in Japan as Emperor Showa.



Japan has joined its ally the US and other leading democracies in sanctions against Russian President Vladimir Putin’s regime and has broken with its pacifist tradition by sending non-lethal military equipment to Ukraine. It has also taken the unusual step of opening its doors to a few hundred refugees fleeing the war.



Masahisa Sato, the head of the ruling Liberal Democratic Party’s foreign policy panel, said on Sunday that he had urged the Foreign Ministry to protest to the Ukrainian government. He later added on Twitter that the ministry appeared to have done so, and the “problematic” video was removed.



Deputy Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihiko Isozaki said Japan would continue to support Ukrainians defending their country from Russia’s invasion despite the “completely inappropriate” portrayal of Hirohito.



“Portraying Hitler, Mussolini and Emperor Showa in the same context is completely inappropriate,” Isozaki told reporters. “It was extremely regrettable.”



_Ukraine Ambassador to Japan Sergiy Korsunsky apologised in a tweet Monday, saying the creator of the video lacked an understanding of history._



While some Twitter users said they had lost interest in supporting Ukraine over the post, others said it would have been more appropriate to use a picture of Hideki Tojo, who was prime minister of Japan during most of World War II and later hanged as a convicted war criminal.







*The creator of the video lacked an understanding of history???? Really. *

After the end of WW2, countless mass graves containing 10,000 bodies and more without their heads were discovered thru out China and ASEAN. So they cut off their own heads and jumped into the grave.

*Japan unlike Germany and Italy is still in denial and has never repented for its facism.*

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## BHAN85

Gazprom fully suspends gas supplies to Bulgaria, Poland due to failure to pay in rubles


MOSCOW, April 27. /TASS/. Gazprom has fully suspended gas supplies to the Bulgarian company Bulgargaz and the Polish PGNiG due to their failure to pay in rubles in due time, the Russian holding said in a statement on Wednesday. "Gazprom Export has notified Bulgargaz and PGNiG of the suspension...



defence.pk

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## CAPRICORN-88



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## KAL-EL

Paul2 said:


> Much harder with what they have now.
> 
> Georgia will just pound the only road passing the Caucasus, and blow up the tunnels.
> 
> Then, they will only have to hold 2-3 chokepoints
> 
> Russia can only spare 2 armies at most to send there, and their departure will be for everybody to see.
> 
> For as long as Azebaijian is hostile to Russia, they are safe.
> 
> Even nukes are of little use in the mountains. Mountain valleys lens the shockwave inside, and whomever is there is doubly screwed, but forces just across the ridge take zero damage.
> 
> Similarly, Russian plan to reach Blakans is equally lunatical. To reach their Balkan allies, they will need to pass Bulgaria, and Romania.
> 
> Romania is a NATO member, with quite a number of NATO brigades on its territory already, and some minimal military of its own.
> 
> If Russia will want to capture Romania itself, they will have to capture Bucharest (1.8m people, concrete construction, subway network.) And even if they somehow manage to beat their regulars there, the rest of Romanian force will run into mountains, and then Russians will be screwed.
> 
> Even if they will decide to pass Bucharest at significant distance, they can't bypass Sofia (Negotin route is too vulnerable to attacks from Carpathians, and from Bulgaria itself,) and invading Bulgaria always been a nightmare, ask Turks.
> 
> And if they will want to invade Poland, well, half of NATO is already there...
> 
> It's a sick fantasy, and not a military plan.



Romania was once home to the most powerful being on Earth

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## CAPRICORN-88

BHAN85 said:


> Gazprom fully suspends gas supplies to Bulgaria, Poland due to failure to pay in rubles
> 
> 
> MOSCOW, April 27. /TASS/. Gazprom has fully suspended gas supplies to the Bulgarian company Bulgargaz and the Polish PGNiG due to their failure to pay in rubles in due time, the Russian holding said in a statement on Wednesday. "Gazprom Export has notified Bulgargaz and PGNiG of the suspension...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


If one don't pay their internet bill, they gets cut off. 

And we don't called them "Gas Blackmail" as Ursula Von Der Leya did. 
I immediately lost my respect for this person. 

*Surely, no one will expects Russia to supply gas for free. *

IMO if it has been the US they would have cut off the gas right at the beginning of the war.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519469096546537472


----------



## Elvin

PakFactor said:


> That doesn't fall into the criteria if one is Muslim or not, sorry. It's a mute point.



.
_“There is no favor of an Arab over a foreigner, nor a foreigner over an Arab, and neither white skin over black skin, nor black skin over white skin, except by righteousness."_

These strong words were spoken during the Prophet Muhammad's(SAW) farewell sermon, where he advised Muslims to embrace racial equality. From this, we learn that it is our own responsibility to break all prejudices so our community can truly progress. We need to continually be conscious and aware of our thoughts and actions. Islam teaches us to honor the fact that all human beings are born equal with dignity and nobility, regardless of our race.

One is not Muslim by birth or name but rather by their beliefs. Being racist is not the Muslim way.

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## BHAN85

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> If one don't pay their internet bill, they gets cut off.
> 
> And we don't called them "Gas Blackmail" as Ursula Von Der Leya did.
> I immediately lost my respect for this person.
> 
> *Surely, no one will expects Russia to supply gas for free. *
> 
> IMO if it has been the US they would have cut off the gas right at the beginning of the war.


EU is projecting.

The main blackmailer here is EU.

Economic blackmail is that EU does everytime they make sanctions to countries that they dont like.

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## patero

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519417943955808257


"_Russia brings justice, peace and security....."_

I don't know how that guy can say that with a straight face. Mass murder, Mass rape and Mass looting of civilians is a strange way of bringing justice, peace and security.

And I like the bit where the woman says "..we'll have to conduct a special military operation to demilitarize Nato.." then quickly adds "...that may not be easy". She didn't say it with a great deal of conviction, and when you watch the faces of the other panelists, none of them really believe it's possible. They can't even beat Ukraine.

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## CAPRICORN-88

*As I have envisaged, Germany will soon joined the US and supplied or rather dumped their arsenal of outdated weapons to Ukraine although Zalensky has clearly insulted them.*

Delivery of the Gepard Tanks pointed to that direction.

The Gepard Tanks has already been decommissioned more than a decade ago in Germany.

The US has never said that their weapon supplies to Ukraine are free meaning that like what Soviet Union did to China after the Korean War ended, the Ukraine may be soon issued a bill.

And that would be an disastrous outcome foe Ukraine.

Ukraine economy will be ruined.

It won't be 5 million Ukrainian refugee flooding EU then but maybe 15~20 millions.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519444216564391936

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519456312202907648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519495386963927040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519463423741890560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519455615713652736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519499183849295872


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519494245450616832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519489798985043968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519439705414111232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519484777639817217

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519483892410896386

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519457169535422465


----------



## INS_Vikrant

Global IT company moves Russian services to India









Global IT company moves Russian services to India


In its earning release, Atos revealed that on April 5, the group confirmed the managed exit of its Russia-based operations. Atos delivers critical digital services to some of its global clients out of Russia.




www.google.com





India unwittingly is ending up as a major benificiary of this war, from cheap oil, to boost in exports and more foreign investments

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519498372855390208


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519402539493597184


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519450702015205376


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519279991661465600

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519283082846744578

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519285254514786311

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519287026977320960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519303470192410624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519309024558202880

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The Russian-speaking population in Donbass aren't the "fifth column" as you put it; they're the overwhelming majority of the people who settle there. The DPR and LPR forces who are doing the majority of the fighting are from this region.
> in the South, there is also a large Russian population.
> Blowing up bridges means an army that is on back-footing.


Those Russians are fifth columns what else? They settled down in countries not belonging to Russia now they want to break up. The war will expand to Moldavia. War is back and forth nothing special let’s wait for the outcome.
Hitler army once stood before Moscow.


----------



## Viet

INS_Vikrant said:


> Global IT company moves Russian services to India
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Global IT company moves Russian services to India
> 
> 
> In its earning release, Atos revealed that on April 5, the group confirmed the managed exit of its Russia-based operations. Atos delivers critical digital services to some of its global clients out of Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India unwittingly is ending up as a major benificiary of this war, from cheap oil, to boost in exports and more foreign investments


Russians getting poorer as predicted they
pay for the war. Nothing is free. Russian real income in Q1 2022 shrink by 27.8 percent compared to Q1 2021. That’s official figure of Rosstat. Makes no sense to stay. foreign companies will gradually leave. Russians won’t have money to buy cars, watches or Huawei phones.

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## Apollon

_Nabil_ said:


> Darnit, I'm starving to death but not aware of it 😁
> 
> Only item discontinued in Tunisia is the "Tournesol" Oil, just like many European countries



I was in egypt just 2 weeks ago and it was obvious that something is going on. Bread prices exploded. When we were in egypt in december i was told to tip.in Euro, since its better for driver, room service and guide. This time it was Impossible for egyptians to get euro or doller changed into egyptian pounds. I had to go into the bank and change it. Guide apologied a thousand times. Many can not afford bread during ramadan anymore. Government raided markets to confiscate euro and doller from the people. Egyptian pound devalued 20% within few weeks. 


Obviously your optimism crashs at the hard reality. 


Thing is, Egypt matters for Europe and USA. We will support them. But Tunisia? 











'Food crisis inevitable' as Tunisia begins Ramadan


Basic food shortages most severe Tunisia has ever seen as experts warn of 'explosive' situation




www.middleeasteye.net







jamal18 said:


> We're not talking a day to day shift. I believe all China/ Russia trade now excludes the dollar, that's a lot of trade. The saudis are selling oil to China in Yuan. If this is the end of the petrodollar than it's game over for the US dollar.



You do realize that Russia has no economy and trade with China is on such small levels that its global effect is zero, right?


For you again: russias entire economy is 1.4% of world economy. 


Export from Russia to China is 49 billion $. 

Thats smaller than the market value of... Nintendo. 


Imports from China to Russia stand at 54 billion $. Which is also...smaller than market value of Nintendo...



Just to give some scale to Russias weak economy. Super Mario holds more economic power than Putin. 



@Vergennes @F-22Raptor

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *As I have envisaged, Germany will soon joined the US and supplied or rather dumped their arsenal of outdated weapons to Ukraine although Zalensky has clearly insulted them.*
> 
> Delivery of the Gepard Tanks pointed to that direction.
> 
> The Gepard Tanks has already been decommissioned more than a decade ago in Germany.
> 
> The US has never said that their weapon supplies to Ukraine are free meaning that like what Soviet Union did to China after the Korean War ended, the Ukraine may be soon issued a bill.
> 
> And that would be an disastrous outcome foe Ukraine.
> 
> Ukraine economy will be ruined.
> 
> It won't be 5 million Ukrainian refugee flooding EU then but maybe 15~20 millions.



One question. Why do Ukrainians all flee west to Europe and not Russia? Thats the biggest problem for putinist propaganda. 


And btw all ukrainians are welcome here. They are european, hard working people. Very educated and look just like us.


----------



## BHAN85

Apollon said:


> I was in egypt just 2 weeks ago and it was obvious that something is going on. Bread prices exploded. When we were in egypt in december i was told to tip.in Euro, since its better for driver, room service and guide. This time it was Impossible for egyptians to get euro or doller changed into egyptian pounds. I had to go into the bank and change it. Guide apologied a thousand times. Many can not afford bread during ramadan anymore. Government raided markets to confiscate euro and doller from the people. Egyptian pound devalued 20% within few weeks.
> 
> 
> Obviously your optimism crashs at the hard reality.
> 
> 
> Thing is, Egypt matters for Europe and USA. We will support them. But Tunisia?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Food crisis inevitable' as Tunisia begins Ramadan
> 
> 
> Basic food shortages most severe Tunisia has ever seen as experts warn of 'explosive' situation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.middleeasteye.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize that Russia has no economy and trade with China is on such small levels that its global effect is zero, right?
> 
> 
> For you again: russias entire economy is 1.4% of world economy.
> 
> 
> Export from Russia to China is 49 billion $.
> 
> Thats smaller than the market value of... Nintendo.
> 
> 
> Imports from China to Russia stand at 54 billion $. Which is also...smaller than market value of Nintendo...
> 
> 
> 
> Just to give some scale to Russias weak economy. Super Mario holds more economic power than Putin.
> 
> 
> 
> @Vergennes @F-22Raptor



People can live without Nintendo games, but millions people can't live without Ukraine/Russia wheat, including Egypt. Germany can't live without Russia natural gas.



Apollon said:


> One question. Why do Ukrainians all flee west to Europe and not Russia? Thats the biggest problem for putinist propaganda.
> 
> 
> And btw all ukrainians are welcome here. They are european, hard working people. Very educated and look just like us.



Ukrainian people look just like Russian people, they dont look like West Europe people, neither physically, neither in the way of life.

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## Apollon

BHAN85 said:


> People can live without Nintendo games, but millions people can't live without Ukraine/Russia wheat, including Egypt. Germany can't live without Russia natural gas.
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian people look just like Russian people, they dont look like West Europe people, neither physically, neither in the way of life.



Germany can live without russian gas and will. Its ridicolous to believe that any EU nation would import any russian gas in 2 years. 


Ukrainians are European. West Ukraine was Poland and Romania before Catherine the Great. South Ukraine was Greek.


----------



## BHAN85

Apollon said:


> Germany can live without russian gas and will. Its ridicolous to believe that any EU nation would import any russian gas in 2 years.
> 
> 
> Ukrainians are European. West Ukraine was Poland and Romania before Catherine the Great. South Ukraine was Greek.


I bet you can not distinguish any Ukrainian person from any other Russian person.
Physically and in the way of life too, they are the same people.
If Ukraine is Europe, then Russia is Europe too.

Germany can live without Russia natural gas only if German/EU (including Greece) people is impoverished, and likely that will hapen.

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## CAPRICORN-88

i


BHAN85 said:


> People can live without Nintendo games, but millions people can't live without Ukraine/Russia wheat, including Egypt. Germany can't live without Russia natural gas.
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian people look just like Russian people, they dont look like West Europe people, neither physically, neither in the way of life.


Thank God, there are still folks like you who lived in a real world and have so much patience dealing with one track minded trolls. 

As for me, I won't waste my time. Take it as it is or leave it. 

The truth is whatever US Blinken, US MSM may say, Russia is shaping the war in Ukraine today and it is only heading in one direction. 

So sad, ordinary folks never have a real say and feed with misinformation.

Politicians like Zalensky and his AZOV gang that are determining the destination for Ukrainians. And the future is looking bleak.

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## Apollon

BHAN85 said:


> I bet you can not distinguish any Ukrainian person from any other Russian person.
> Physically and in the way of life too, they are the same people.
> If Ukraine is Europe, then Russia is Europe too.
> 
> Germany can live without Russia natural gas only if German/EU (including Greece) people is impoverished, and likely that will hapen.



Ironicly i can spot a russian right on...


And obviously they are not same.people. large parts of Ukraine are catholic. 


As for rest. Europe is the richest continent under the sun. We have best science and technology. Renewable Energie, hydrogen, nuclear power. Thats the way to go. 


Condidering the fact that even during this war our unemployment is record low and we have economic boom...while russia has a 20% decline in income...im quite optimistic. Fossil fuels are a thing of the past anyways. Russia is an enemy of the civilized world. And i dont want any connection with russia to remain.

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## DF41

nang2 said:


> Not only that, you also need to brainwash them to think their enemies as non-humans. It is much easier to kill an animal than to kill a human. That is where Nazism and terrorism are close to each other. For Nazis, the racial purity and superiority are paramount. To think your own race to be supreme, you need to think everyone else, particularly your enemy, is below you. For terrorism, using Islamic terrorism as an example, you must think your enemy not fellow muslims. They are infidels and brutes. Nazism is like state terrorism.


Which is why Russia is correct and all sane people of any country must support

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## Apollon

DF41 said:


> Which is why Russia is correct and all sane people of any country must support
> 
> View attachment 838589



Oh russia wearing american sneakers? Your propaganda doesnt work.


----------



## BHAN85

Apollon said:


> Ironicly i can spot a russian right on...
> 
> 
> And obviously they are not same.people. large parts of Ukraine are catholic.
> 
> 
> As for rest. Europe is the richest continent under the sun. We have best science and technology. Renewable Energie, hydrogen, nuclear power. Thats the way to go.
> 
> 
> Condidering the fact that even during this war our unemployment is record low and we have economic boom...while russia has a 20% decline in income...im quite optimistic. Fossil fuels are a thing of the past anyways. Russia is an enemy of the civilized world. And i dont want any connection with russia to remain.



You wrong, we dont have energy resources.

We dont have Uranium to feed nuclear plants, and hydrogen is not a energy source, it's just a vector.

I wish you're right, but you're wrong.

Common European people will suffer EU burocrats hallucinations and corruption, we'll see in the coming years.

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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519404450833649665

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## Apollon

BHAN85 said:


> You wrong, we dont have energy resources.
> 
> We dont have Uranium to feed nuclear plants, and hydrogen is not a energy source, it's just a vector.
> 
> I wish you're right, but you're wrong.
> 
> Common European people will suffer EU burocrats hallucinations and corruption, we'll see in the coming years.


 We have no wind? We have no sun? Are you kidding me? And of course we have Uranium. In middle europe are some if largest uranium deposits in the world. 


Eastern Germany had massive uranium mines. They were closed after reunion but can reopen if needed.


----------



## DF41

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519087952957251585
> Must have been a heavy cyber attacks!

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## thetutle

BHAN85 said:


> I bet you can not distinguish any Ukrainian person from any other Russian person.
> Physically and in the way of life too, they are the same people.
> If Ukraine is Europe, then Russia is Europe too.


of course Russians are europeans. what else can they be?


Apollon said:


> Ironicly i can spot a russian right on...


I used to think people can be identified by the way they look. now im not so sure. 

Daniel Craig could easily pass as Russian, and half the Chechens I see tick ticking could pass as English. Most English gypsies are whiter than I am, And I've even see blond hair blue eyed Australian Aboriginals. In russia, I did not get any feelings that I was identified as a foreigner until I spoke. But yes, some people do look obviously Russian. Like Putin and Daniel Craig. 


BHAN85 said:


> We dont have Uranium to feed nuclear plants


you do, but Australia can sell it to you.

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## CAPRICORN-88

DF41 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519404450833649665
> View attachment 838591


Shooting innocent people caught in the crossfire and then blamed it on the enemy the Russian forces. 

But the victims knew the truth. 

So who are the real liberators?

No wonder East Ukraine welcome the Russian forces.

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## Trango Towers

thetutle said:


> What exactly can Russia to to Israel? It could never mass any forces against it. Any nukes would be responded to with an Israeli nuke.
> 
> And why would russia turn against Israel? It loves Israel.


Because Israelis are against Russia and Russia knows the fascists sons of nazi Jews of Israel support Ukraine and have supplied weapons that have killed Russians. 
Russia can supply critical hardware such as anti tank and SAMs. Components to design and manufacture drones and in essence kill nazis of Israel. 
Ps. Israel and Judaism are on opposite poles. Israelis would be rejected by prophet m
Moses. Israelis are sons of Adolf Hitler.

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## thetutle

Trango Towers said:


> Because Israelis are against Russia and Russia knows the fascists sons of nazi Jews of Israel support Ukraine and have supplied weapons that have killed Russians.
> Russia can supply critical hardware such as anti tank and SAMs. Components to design and manufacture drones and in essence kill nazis of Israel.
> Ps. Israel and Judaism are on opposite poles. Israelis would be rejected by prophet m
> Moses. Israelis are sons of Adolf Hitler.


You obviously know very little about Russia and Israel if you think Russia will ever Arm Palestinians. They were a superpower since 1945 and did they arm the Palestinians or help them at all? no! But they did recognise Israel and hold exceptionally good relations. And 1 million Russians are in Israel. 

Israel is a Russian colony almost. And what is Palestine to Russia? Less than zero.

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## Viet

thetutle said:


> You obviously know very little about Russia and Israel if you think Russia will ever Arm Palestinians. They were a superpower since 1945 and did they arm the Palestinians or help them at all? no! But they did recognise Israel and hold exceptionally good relations. And 1 million Russians are in Israel.
> 
> Israel is a Russian colony almost. And what is Palestine to Russia? Less than zero.


1.2 million Russians live in Germany. Obviously they love Nazi. More Russians will run away from antifacist Russia and come here Germany.


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## Trango Towers

thetutle said:


> You obviously know very little about Russia and Israel if you think Russia will ever Arm Palestinians. They were a superpower since 1945 and did they arm the Palestinians or help them at all? no! But they did recognise Israel and hold exceptionally good relations. And 1 million Russians are in Israel.
> 
> Israel is a Russian colony almost. And what is Palestine to Russia? Less than zero.


Time and alliances change. When did isreal directly contribute to the death of Russians in the past.
So my delusional nazi sympathiser your end is approaching with every passing minutes

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## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> You wrong, we dont have energy resources.
> 
> We dont have Uranium to feed nuclear plants, and hydrogen is not a energy source, it's just a vector.
> 
> I wish you're right, but you're wrong.
> 
> Common European people will suffer EU burocrats hallucinations and corruption, we'll see in the coming years.


The world turns to green energy: wind, solar, hydrogen, bio gas, ocean wave, earth heat.
The more expensive the fossil fuels the quicker the green energy comes.

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## MajesticPug

mmr said:


> cry harder ccp bot lol


Still several level higher than a 50cents CIA bot.

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## mulj

Trango Towers said:


> Time and alliances change. When did isreal directly contribute to the death of Russians in the past.
> So my delusional nazi sympathiser your end is approaching with every passing minutes


they had a chance 2 nights ago to shot down israel airplanes but guess what nothing happened and will not, russsians are firm israel ally with some disturbances among them but nothing that could disrupt deep rooted relations with settlers, bonds are to strong.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519593379033661442
Briefing by the official representative of the RF Ministry of Defense Igor Konashenkov as of 10.00 on April 28, 2022 on the progress of the special operation in Ukraine

The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue a special military operation in Ukraine.

▪️High-precision air-based missiles of the Russian Aerospace Forces during the night hit four military facilities in Ukraine. Two areas of concentration of manpower and military equipment of the enemy were hit. Also, two warehouses of rocket and artillery weapons and ammunition were destroyed in the areas of the settlements of BARVENKOVO and IVANOVKA.

▪️The operational-tactical and army aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces hit 67 military facilities of Ukraine in a day. Among them: six command posts, two company strongholds, two large depots of rocket and artillery weapons and fuel in the settlements of PREOBRAZHENKA and NUTS, as well as 55 enemy manpower and military equipment concentration sites.

As a result of the strikes, more than 300 nationalists and up to 40 armored vehicles and vehicles were destroyed.

▪️Missile troops and artillery completed 408 fire missions during the night. 18 command posts and 383 areas of concentration of manpower and Ukrainian military equipment were hit.

▪️Russian air defense systems shot down a Su-24 aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force over the settlement of NIKOLAEVKA in the Luhansk People's Republic.

Five Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles were destroyed in the areas of settlements Veselogorovka, Zatishnoye, Novomikhailovka, Lyubimovka, and Kharkiv.

▪️Also this morning, air defense systems repelled an attack by a Ukrainian Tochka-U ballistic missile on residential areas of the city of IZYUM, Kharkiv region.

The target of the strike was the city hospital, where the Russian medical detachment is located, providing assistance to the population of the Kharkov region.


▪️April 27, at about 23:00 Moscow time, the Ukrainian armed forces launched a massive missile strike with Tochka-U ballistic missiles and high-power multiple rocket launchers on residential areas in the central part of the city of KHERSON.

The targets of the indiscriminate missile attack by the nationalists were residential areas in the area of Ushakov Avenue, where kindergartens, schools and many social institutions are also located.

Russian air defense units repelled a missile attack by Ukrainian troops on residential areas of KHERSON.

In the air over the city, twelve shells of a high-powered multiple launch rocket system were shot down, as well as two Ukrainian Tochka-U ballistic missiles.
Fragments of one of the downed Ukrainian Tochka-U missiles fell in Shevchenko Park.

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## Ich

BHAN85 said:


> We dont have Uranium to feed nuclear plants



There is plenty of nuclear fuel called "atomic waste" in Germany. I can not be used in light water reactors, but it can be used in fast burner reactors. Whereas fast burners consume plutonium and higher transuranites and also can "refuel" light water reactors with uran. And the "waste" of the light water reactors then is again used in fast burner reactors. Its called "closed fuel cicle", whereas its not fully closed. But there is enough "atomic waste" to secure energy for more then one decade. All it needs is to build some fast burner reactors and some more light water reactors.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519431424855756802


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519419129404473345

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519592251114020864

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## Hack-Hook

mmr said:


> russia is too poor to afford proxy war with world's most richest and powerful countries
> 
> realty sucks but that's the truth
> 
> 
> 
> share source then


Wrong proxy warfare traditionally belonged to economically weaker countries

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## WotTen

nang2 said:


> Not only that, you also need to brainwash them to think their enemies as non-humans. It is much easier to kill an animal than to kill a human. That is where Nazism and terrorism are close to each other. For Nazis, the racial purity and superiority are paramount. To think your own race to be supreme, you need to think everyone else, particularly your enemy, is below you. For terrorism, using Islamic terrorism as an example, you must think your enemy not fellow muslims. They are infidels and brutes. Nazism is like state terrorism.



Yes you are right. This is a big, big problem within Muslim societies.

Islam does not give anyone the right to decide if someone else is a true believer. That is for God to decide. Christian society, at least in the US and Western Europe, has progressed beyond this obsession.

The true meaning of 'jihad' is to introspect one's own life and find where one falls short of Islamic ideals. Unfortunately, some power hungry mullahs (religious leaders) turned this concept inside out to brainwash their disciples into attacking others as 'not true Muslims'.

This poisonous exploitation of Islam started with Muslims themselves, power hungry leaders using religion, and others (not just the West) used the technique that Muslims were already using upon each other.

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## Apollon

Impressive! One Stugna P takes out 4 muscovite tanksbin 4 minutes


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## WotTen

mulj said:


> It seems so for current state of affairs but you can always decrease goals and work on elimination of contemporay society isssues such are education, economy, commitment to developement. In that sense i am moderate optimist and for rest we can only hope to the best.



We can try but the world today is a very interconnected place. The West will never allow anyone else to rise and challenge its domination. It will play as dirty as it needs to, including nuclear war. This is not specific to the West, Anyone on top would do the same.

The current Western tantrum against China is just the latest example. China can resist Western sabotage only because it is not a democracy, which the West excels at infiltrating and exploiting, and the Chinese leadership exerts an iron fist to keep Western conspiracies at bay. Also Chinese culture has always been very hard working (except the opium era) and the ordinary Chinese people have worked very hard to take China to new heights.

Muslim society, alas, is not hard working except in rare cases. So many people, distressingly large numbers of young people, put their faith in religious prophecies instead of science and technology. This is a big cultural challenge we have to overcome if we want any hope of competing in the modern world as players instead of powerless spectators.

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## Corax

Apollon said:


> Impressive! One Stugna P takes out 4 muscovite tanksbin 4 minutes



In a lot of the videos showing Ukrainian forces hitting Russian tanks, there's no immediate response from the Russians, no reaction, no evasive maneuverers, no attempt to locate and attack the Ukrainians. It's almost as if the Russians are asleep, or the tanks have been abandoned anyway due to prior battle damage.


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## nufix

Viet said:


> The world turns to green energy: wind, solar, hydrogen, bio gas, ocean wave, earth heat.
> The more expensive the fossil fuels the quicker the green energy comes.



Depends tho, the fact that the government might be quick to push for more green energy sources, does not mean the average citizen are able to. To give some example, lets take heating. Around 1/3 of all houses in Germany are "Altbau", the other 1/3 were built during post war period. Only 1/3 of them are made according to the EneV. This means only 1/3 of all houses in Germany can be equipped with heating system that relies on green energy like Wärmepumpe, PV, and Pelletheizung because you need a building that is well insulated and equipped with surface heating. The government might give 30-45% subsidy for the new heating system and 20% for improving the insulation, but for 2/3 of home owners, this could mean at least EUR 40k investment after subsidy. Not everyone has that kind of money, especially with inflation and rising interest rate we are seeing today. Electricity price is also on the rise, if it passes 50ct/kwh, it would basically make Wärmepumpe more expensive than gas since it requires more energy to burn in order to achieve the same heat performance as gas heating. 

The government has to basically spend money not only to make the energy sources green, but also to make the people want to adopt the green energy. The big question is, does Germany have that money?

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## Apollon

Corax said:


> In a lot of the videos showing Ukrainian forces hitting Russian tanks, there's no immediate response from the Russians, no reaction, no evasive maneuverers, no attempt to locate and attack the Ukrainians. It's almost as if the Russians are asleep, or the tanks have been abandoned anyway due to prior battle damage.



The tanks are roughly 2km away.


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## nufix

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519431424855756802



Well to be honest, Afghan refugees' track records are not that shiny in Germany. They are making it easy for the host country to turn them away.


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## Trango Towers

mulj said:


> they had a chance 2 nights ago to shot down israel airplanes but guess what nothing happened and will not, russsians are firm israel ally with some disturbances among them but nothing that could disrupt deep rooted relations with settlers, bonds are to strong.


OK. Yiu are entitled to your opinion. Even though I consider it to be wrong and old

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519531662207590401


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## mulj

Trango Towers said:


> OK. Yiu are entitled to your opinion. Even though I consider it to be wrong and old


I will beleive when it happens what you say about russia repositioning its commitments along with concrete actions.


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## Viet

nufix said:


> Depends tho, the fact that the government might be quick to push for more green energy sources, does not mean the average citizen are able to. To give some example, lets take heating. Around 1/3 of all houses in Germany are "Altbau", the other 1/3 were built during post war period. Only 1/3 of them are made according to the EneV. This means only 1/3 of all houses in Germany can be equipped with heating system that relies on green energy like Wärmepumpe, PV, and Pelletheizung because you need a building that is well insulated and equipped with surface heating. The government might give 30-45% subsidy for the new heating system and 20% for improving the insulation, but for 2/3 of home owners, this could mean at least EUR 40k investment after subsidy. Not everyone has that kind of money, especially with inflation and rising interest rate we are seeing today. Electricity price is also on the rise, if it passes 50ct/kwh, it would basically make Wärmepumpe more expensive than gas since it requires more energy to burn in order to achieve the same heat performance as gas heating.
> 
> The government has to basically spend money not only to make the energy sources green, but also to make the people want to adopt the green energy. The big question is, does Germany have that money?


Today, 45 percent Germany power generation comes from renewable. It’s not if but when Germany doesn’t need gas imports from Russia. The gov thinks 4 years. Coal and oil imports from Russia will reduce to 0 by end of the year. Putin will sell oil, gas, coal dirty cheap to Asia.

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## SalarHaqq

Russia has a PLAN… …the West does not​*by Jorge Vilches for the Saker Blog*

22642 Views | April 26, 2022 | 91 Comments

*Russia has a PLAN…*

Like it or not, it is fairly obvious that Russia today is leading events and continues to affect reality mostly in the way that she believes is in her best strategic interests. In other words, cornered Russia had a *Plan*, a tangible, thought-out, thoroughly vetted – most probably in writing – articulate, fairly all-inclusive, flexible enough yet in-depth *Plan* that we now learn took years to conceive, develop and massage in multiple fronts. So today Russian leaders focus on the same page swiftly singing along agreed “_choir book lyrics_” so to speak. Militarily, in due time Russia will succeed per her own goals & terms, not ours. Second-guessing Russia´s *Plan* is now a blogosphere sport amongst commentariati, but really to no avail. Only “observer” status is granted if not a Russian national with deep involvement in its execution.

*… the West does not*

Meanwhile, Western “unfriendlies” respond flat-footed like disjointed cartoon characters angrily improvising piecemeal reactions sometimes doubling down on doubtful… if not plain dead-wrong… decisions which are later flip-flopped trying catch up with Russian-led events. *Elmer Fudd* comes to mind per Ref #5. All the sanctions imposed on Russia have been counter-productive and the Rouble today is stronger than ever. The underlying factor that governs the worldwide Big Bang Breton Woods III revolution (more on that later) is that, for better or for worse, Russia has a *Plan* and the West just reacts with hit-and-miss off-balance punches zig-zagging its way along without North or compass.

Ref #1 https://www.ekathimerini.com/news/1...support-for-total-embargo-on-russian-oil-gas/
Ref #2 https://money.usnews.com/investing/...-roubles-proposal-without-breaching-sanctions – Ref # 3 https://www.rt.com/business/554534-eu-country-rejects-ruble-gas/
Ref # 4 https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...ng-nuclear-war-germany-approves-tanks-ukraine
Ref #5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmer_Fudd

*White House piracy *

In his State of the Union world press opportunity days ago sitting US President Joseph Robinette Biden forever unable to get a grip on events had the nerve to propose an active US-Europe piracy program to “…_find and _*seize* [Russian owned] _yachts, apartments and jets_…”“Our goal is *not* to give them back” – officially and proudly declared US National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan Ref #6 https://tass.com/world/1437923 + Ref # 7 https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...iden-state-of-the-union-address-as-delivered/

So in order to remain coherent with the currently unconscionable US-European mad-house, one next step in the works — preferably under the supervision of surely knowledgeable stiff upper lip UK Royal Navy instructors – would be for Russian ships to be seized in international waters (cargo included) just like pirates in the 17th century British Caribbean. Don´t smile, as Argentina, Venezuela, Iran and Libya have already been through this not that long ago.

And while they are at it, these ´special forces´ could also comply with the US President´s program by looking out for aircraft of any size, type or purpose – including drones and choppers – plus all fine cars & motorcycles, boats, real estate, embassies, consulates, works of art, jewelry, property at large either government or privately owned. They´ve already seized the Gazprom subsidiary Germania because of its sudden “_violations to German trade law_”, so…

Ref #8 https://worldview.stratfor.com/situation-report/germany-berlin-seizes-german-subsidiary-gazprom
Ref #9 https://www.rferl.org/a/germany-gazprom-subsidiary-takeover/31785610.html







*145 million Martians *– I kid you not

Constitutional Scholar US Judge Andrew Napolitano summarized it with eloquence : _“As if to run even further away from US constitutional norms, a group of legal academics began arguing last week that the property seized from Russians is not really owned by _*human beings*.” If not humans, what would 145 million Russians be then ? “_As well, when the [US] feds interfere with contract rights by prohibiting compliance with lawful contracts, that, too, implicates due process and can only be done constitutionally after a jury verdict in the government’s favor, at a trial at which the [US] feds have been able to prove fault…Similarly, when they freeze Russian assets in American banks, they engage in a seizure, and seizures can only constitutionally be done with a search warrant based on probable cause of crime” _

*Can´t make this stuff up*… Ref #10 https://www.lewrockwell.com/2022/04/andrew-p-napolitano/using-war-to-assault-freedom/

*Mad Max*

So visualize high-tech policing forces mandated by the Western-world´s top leader with the mission of seizing Russian whatever anywhere international, including mid-flight. And ask yourself, why not ? It´d be consistent with other measures already taken along the same lines. Please recall that the Western “unfriendlies” — with absolutely no legal teeth — by means of a few keyboard strokes have already frozen (and will eventually “arrest”…) Russia´s international banking accounts to the tune of several *hundreds of billions of dollars*… that still are 100% “un-usable”, as in worth-less… and which our Western “unfriendlies” per US National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan might even think of confiscating altogether, no ? So let´s not mince words and, as the Canadian truckers´ experience proved, today Western world property rights (_dominium proprietas_) as we have known them for many centuries *have ceased to exist.

Harassment to nowhere*

“_The [Russian] embassy is essentially under a blockade by the US authorities. Bank of America has shut down the accounts of our general consulates in Houston and New York_” Ambassador Anatoly Antonov added that diplomats are also receiving threats. How can the much-claimed diplomacy effort ever succeed if the Russian embassy in the US is under blockade with acts of vandalism on the building? Attacks on Russian missions also took place elsewhere, with vehicles rammed into the gates in Dublin and Bucharest. Activists defaced mission buildings with paint in Austria and Latvia. Ref # 11 https://www.rt.com/russia/554433-russian-embassy-blocked-washington/

*Along the same lines, the West also has and keeps trying very hard to divide the Russians, to no avail.

The West just keeps sending weapons to Ukraine hoping to prolong the conflict and bleed out Russia.*

_“Statista”_ reports that the number of sanctions against Russian individuals and entities imposed by the US, the EU and select countries like Switzerland, the UK and Japan before 22 February was 2754 and between 22 February and 8 March was 2827, of which 366 on entities and remaining on individuals. Adding up both sums means a grand total of *5581 active sanctions* today on Russia “the most sanctioned country in the world”. Full credit to T. Sabri Öncü per

Ref # 12 https://www.primeeconomics.org/arti...-ukraine-and-the-weaponisation-of-everything/
Ref # 13 https://www.statista.com/chart/27015/number-of-currently-active-sanctions-by-target-country/

A sixth package of sanctions against Russia would come as early as next week including a ban on Russian oil imports plus also targeting more Russian banks. Ref # 14 https://www.rt.com/business/554393-russia-oil-embargo-options-west/

*More Guantanamos*

And to be fully consistent, as the US did with Japanese communities during WW2, it would be expected for Russian-born individuals now in Western countries – tourists, students, children, researchers and diplomats included — to end up jailed in Guantanamos somewhere. Yet again, why not ? Because if the idea is *to bother and “punish” Russia*, the size and type of “seizure” would not matter much as long as it serves the stated purpose. So the philosophy may well be to just keep prodding the Russian bear until it slips… ( like with a nuclear slip a-la-9/11 ?) … once it gets fed up of so much terribly arbitrary and needless harm. The problem is that militarily speaking the Russians seem to be more than ready for such, *Always.Being.Ahead.Of.Events*. Apparently our civilized West does not have anything near a “Plan” other than provoking Russia as fast as possible as long as possible with the largest possible damage, right ?

*Over the cuckoos nest*

If on New Year´s Eve 2022 – only 4 short months ago and with a splendid Nord Stream 2 Russia-Europe oil & gas shining pipeline 100% ready for commissioning — somebody had premonitioned anything anywhere close to the current European suicidal strategy… most probably such individual would have been readily admissioned in a mental care institution for careful evaluation of unavoidable experimental therapies for such unprecedented delusions.

As Russian officials have pretty much repeated in so many words: “_We don´t have to be friends if you don´t want to, only arms-length trading partners and business associates. But don´t make us your enemies, we do not want or need to have enemies, and _*neither should you*_”_. Mind you, under any jurisprudence self-defense is still 100% legitimate.

*Nazi nightmares*

Germans still endure a very deep shameful-guilt complex regarding what led to and happened during World War 2. Today, Europe at large is working and bullying very hard to eventually develop – or exceed — the very same guilt complex without ever stopping for one single minute to follow and understand what Europe – actively fostered by the US and UK – is doing to Russia for no reason or gain of its own, only self-damage. Plain unwarranted *Russophobia*.

[ hint: don´t love them, just do business… ]

“…_there are 30-some right-wing extremist groups operating in Ukraine – _(all numerous and US-trained)_ — that have been formally integrated into Ukraine’s armed forces…which promote an intolerant and illiberal ideology… _”

Ref # 15 https://www.newsweek.com/evidence-war-crimes-committed-ukrainian-nationalist-volunteers-grows-269604
Ref # 16 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-idUSKBN1GV2TY
Ref # 17 https://www.smh.com.au/business/how-bankers-helped-the-nazis-20130801-2r1fd.html

*Russia AWOL*

Europe has not yet understood the implications of Russia now going full speed ahead for import substitution policies with the *80% of the world* that still trades and works hard on planet Earth. Russia has already well underway specific agendas for the immediate welcome and establishment of Chinese and Indian SMBs into Russia´s new Bretton Woods III economy leaving Western “unfriendlies” aside and strengthening ties with countries just as sick and tired of Western bullying nonsense as Russia is after being badly pushed around so much for so long. While Europe – and the Western world at large – badly needs Russian produce at *any* cost*. *Paraphrasing infamous US Treasury Secretary John Connally, smirking a Mona Lisa smile, Russians could now say *“Sorry, our commodities, your problem”…

De-globalization for YOU, not us *

True enough, consumer societies and globalized economies may soon be ending for the 20% of the Western world. But the remaining *80%* of world population is currently undergoing a massive crowding-in process simply trying to join the unavoidable forces of history behind the Russia-led spanking new Big Bang. Those left out would have nowhere to hide, constituting the real ´_pariahs on the global stage´_ that White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki has been keenly looking for lately the poor soul.

In her *Plan* — not without difficulties — Russia already has huge fallback trading partners willing and able to join Russia´s Bretton Woods III arrangements, including no more and no less than bellwether China and India. The recent “_no limits_” agreement with China is simply *fully* *unprecedented*. This “_New Yorker_” article clearly explains why

Ref # 18 https://www.newyorker.com/news/dail...na-unveil-a-pact-against-america-and-the-west
Ref # 19 https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/14/why-is-istandwithputin-trending-in

*quo vadis Europa* ?

Europe, instead, has left itself deeply confused hanging idly high and dry in a vacuum chamber neither

complying with the Minsk agreements that Europeans actively pursued and endorsed, which would mean working with Russia, not 100% against it, nor
finding a viable and reasonable European outcome for their nonsensical Russophobia – mission impossible
understanding how badly Europe needs sustained import of Russian + Ukraine commodities for years to come
The lack of sufficient current and future stable year-round supply of Russian unreplaceable produce will mean very bad news for Europe. This includes *many other essentials* besides the specific Russian oil & gas & coal grades without which in a matter of months if not weeks Europe will become un-livable chaos with rolling power black-outs, fuels and food very hard to find enough of… with migrants roaming and ´camping out´ in streets, parks or churchyards and cemeteries (yes, just like in North Africa…) without shelter, food, health care, schools, jobs or money… and with the tired European middle-classes inevitably joining the coming revolt sooner rather than later. Per The Guardian, “…_come October, it’s going to get horrific, _*truly horrific *… _a scale beyond what we can deal with”. _

Rabobank´s take on food security is that: “ *When The ´Food System´ Breaks Down, Everything Will Break Down With It*”.

Ref # 20 https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ll-into-fuel-poverty-in-truly-horrific-winter Ref #21 https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/r...tem-breaks-down-everything-will-break-down-it

*5 short questions*

Are there any adults left in the European room ?
Why the unwarranted tone-deaf Russophobia ??
Does Europe want to provoke Russia into war ???
Are Europeans willing to keep the US and UK as their belligerent handlers ????
Ref # 22 https://asiatimes.com/2022/04/us-a-co-belligerent-in-ukraine-war-legal-expert-says/
Ref # 23 https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022...omise-ukraine-more-aid-return-of-us-diplomats
Ref # 24 https://www.rt.com/news/554494-uk-stormer-vehicles-ukraine/
Ref # 25 https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...-and-national-security-advisor-jake-sullivan/

*Why not follow German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder on this topic ?????*
Ref # 26 https://www.rt.com/news/554411-germany-needs-russia-schroeder/





__





Russia has a PLAN… …the West does not | The Vineyard of the Saker


A bird's eye view of the vineyard




thesaker.is


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## WotTen

Elvin said:


> .
> _“There is no favor of an Arab over a foreigner, nor a foreigner over an Arab, and neither white skin over black skin, nor black skin over white skin, except by righteousness."_
> 
> These strong words were spoken during the Prophet Muhammad's(SAW) farewell sermon, where he advised Muslims to embrace racial equality. From this, we learn that it is our own responsibility to break all prejudices so our community can truly progress. We need to continually be conscious and aware of our thoughts and actions. Islam teaches us to honor the fact that all human beings are born equal with dignity and nobility, regardless of our race.
> 
> One is not Muslim by birth or name but rather by their beliefs. Being racist is not the Muslim way.



Thank you.

The whole experience of the Hajj, in two sheets of plain white cloth, drives home the message that all humans are equal. Rich or poor, young or old, white, black, brown or yellow, man or woman. All are equal before Allah.


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## SalarHaqq

Elvin said:


> .
> _“There is no favor of an Arab over a foreigner, nor a foreigner over an Arab, and neither white skin over black skin, nor black skin over white skin, except by righteousness."_
> 
> These strong words were spoken during the Prophet Muhammad's(SAW) farewell sermon, where he advised Muslims to embrace racial equality. From this, we learn that it is our own responsibility to break all prejudices so our community can truly progress. We need to continually be conscious and aware of our thoughts and actions. Islam teaches us to honor the fact that all human beings are born equal with dignity and nobility, regardless of our race.
> 
> One is not Muslim by birth or name but rather by their beliefs. Being racist is not the Muslim way.



Nasrallah: The war in Ukraine unmasked the racism and hypocrisy of the West​18460 Views | April 19, 2022 | 54 Comments 


*Speech by Hezbollah Secretary General Sayed Hassan Nasrallah on March 8, 2022, on the occasion of the Day of the Wounded.*

_Source: video.moqawama.org 
Translation: resistancenews.com_

[…] O my brothers and sisters, the events happening around us in terms must strengthen our awareness, our lucidity and our understanding of things, the conclusions we draw from them for the current equations, as well as the lessons and teachings we learn from them. This brings me to the current events that are currently occupying all minds. I start with the events between Russia and Ukraine to state that these are very important events in terms of lessons and learning. As last time, I will just mention some brief points before I come to the internal Lebanese situation.

The first point is that the U.S. representative to the Security Council said in addressing Russia, “Any attack on civilians is considered a war crime, and we are recording all events.” In the sense that the US is monitoring everything closely, and will then try Russia for its (alleged) war crimes. That’s what she said to Russia. But what does she say about the massacres against civilians perpetrated by the US in all its wars? No war waged by the US happened without attacks on civilians, massacres, civilians killed, atrocities against civilians and civilian infrastructure, etc. From the nuclear bombing in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, whose environmental and health effects are still felt today, with traces and effects that persist to this day, to Iraq, the siege of Iraq, the starvation of Iraq and the death of tens of thousands of Iraqi children due to the siege, then the invasion (of Iraq in 2003), etc. According to the Americans themselves, they have killed tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians, and tens of thousands of Afghan civilians. How many times have American planes or drones bombed Afghan wedding ceremonies, turning them into funerals, and then claiming that they were training camps, despite the presence of women, children and old people? But they claimed that they were training camps. What about the Zionist massacres in Palestine for more than 70 years, and the massacres Israel regularly perpetrates? What about the Israeli-Zionist war crimes in Palestine? What about the siege of Gaza? Today, the whole world is shedding tears because this or that city in Ukraine has been under siege for 5, 6 or 7 days. But Gaza has been under siege for many years, for 15 years! But the world remains silent.

What about the massacres of the Saudi-American aggression in Yemen, and the tens of thousands of civilian martyrs in Yemen, children, women, men, old and young? And the entire civilian infrastructure is destroyed in Yemen. What about the siege imposed on Yemen for the past 7 years? And currently, the siege is increasing on oil derivatives (fuels), and we saw yesterday the angry demonstrations in Yemeni cities. But the whole world remains silent about this. Why is this so? Simply, and don’t mind me saying it so bluntly, it’s because all these people are not White, they are not blond and they are not blue-eyed – even if in reality there are some blond and blue-eyed white people among them, but it doesn’t matter. These people do not belong to the world of the White man. I’ll go even further than that: for the United States, even those who belong to the White man’s world are only means, tools, instruments, and have no human value.

This is the case with Ukraine [the US has no hesitation in sacrificing the Ukrainian and European population in general to advance its interests]. Thus, based on the logic of the representative of the United States, it would have been necessary today, before threatening Russia or other countries with trials, to establish dozens and hundreds of sessions to judge the Americans, the British and the Western and European armies for their crimes in Algeria, Libya, Tunisia, Africa, in all corners of the world, in India, Pakistan… It is these files that we must start by examining if we want to base ourselves on these principles.






This hypocrisy and double standard is confirmed day after day. Last Friday, in Peshawar, Pakistan, during Friday prayers, a suicide bomber blew himself up, killing dozens of people, including the Imam of the mosque, and injuring dozens more. And the whole world remained silent. This is natural. Because these takfiris suicide bombers are Made in CIA, Made in America. They serve the American project. The whole world must remain silent because it is the US and its tools in the region. Day after day, it is confirmed that the American “values” do not respect humanistic principles, morals, international law, fundamental rights, etc. Nothing matters to them but their political and economic interests and their hegemony. When their political interests ask them to condemn, they condemn. When their political interests ask them to support, they support. On the subject of the massacres perpetrated by Israel, the United States is not content with not condemning, they prevent the Security Council from condemning them! They prevent the whole world from condemning them! They defend the (Israeli) murderers and butchers who shed (Palestinian) blood! This is the truth of the United States, which we have known (for a long time), but we take advantage of the current events to remind it, so that those who have not yet opened their eyes do so, and that those who already know gain in awareness and lucidity, and in clarity of vision. 






Also, and this is my second point, every day there is more evidence in the world that trusting the United States is an act of imbecility. I say this to get to Lebanon next. Trusting the United States is stupid and foolish. It is an act of ignorance that endangers the global Muslim community, the nation and the interests of the people. This is what it means to trust the Americans. A few months ago, we saw with our own eyes, and the whole world saw, the experience of the United States in Afghanistan, and how they abandoned and forsook the country. The images of the planes and the airport are still fresh in everyone’s mind.






Let’s not forget the statements of the Afghan officials who collaborated with the Americans for many years: the Afghan President on the run, who was 100% with the Americans, to the point that if they told him not to negotiate with the Taliban, he didn’t do it –while the United States themselves negotiated with them–, if they asked him not to go to Tehran, he didn’t go there, if they wanted him to go to such and such a country, he went there, and so on. He was 100% subservient to the US… So the former Afghan President says: “My mistake was to trust the United States and its international allies.” He claims that he gave them his opinion and thoughts, but they did not respond to him and did not take them into account, considering that it was their vision that was right, that they were the strategists, that the data was in their hands and that they had efficiently anticipated the consequences and results (of their actions), but the result is (the humiliating American debacle) that we saw in Afghanistan. They have abandoned (all their allies).


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1431517279859224579
Today, in Ukraine, the whole world knows that the United States and Great Britain in particular (are the main culprits of the crisis). The rest of the European countries are really poor wretches. It is clear that a number of European countries did not want this problem, like Germany for example, Germany in the first place, and also France to some extent. Other European countries felt that they would be trampled and sacrificed (on the altar of NATO’s aggression against Russia), that their interests were in great danger. The United States, and with them Great Britain, which has left the European Union, have aggravated the situation in Ukraine and pushed it into the lion’s den. But of course, they acted according to precise calculations. For Biden has announced in his strategy that his priority is the fight against Russia and China. With China, the confrontation has its own calculations and its own ways. And as for the confrontation against Russia, Biden is certainly not going to wage a world war against it, because he is not capable of it, and so he has thrown Ukraine against Russia to prevent any agreement between Ukraine and Russia and to provoke this war.






This is demonstrated by the fact that after the first few days (of war), we can all listen on television to the statements of the President of Ukraine, his head of government, his foreign minister and his deputy, and his advisers. What do they say? “They let us fight alone.” Because either (the U.S.) had promised Ukraine that they would fight with them in case of war (against Russia), or, because of the trust of Ukrainians in the U.S., they believed that they would fight alongside them. And that is why Ukrainian leaders are now expressing that their hopes have been dashed. They say they have been left alone to fight. It was the Ukrainian President who said so. Ukraine is calling on the United States (and NATO) to fight on its side, but they are responding that they cannot endanger their States and their people and risk a devastating world war for the sake of Ukraine. I just said that in their eyes, even the White man has no value. (They will not risk a nuclear war) for the sake of Ukraine, for the people of Ukraine, for the White man in Ukraine, in any case. They are not ready for that. “Fight on your own, dear friends. Because as far as we are concerned, we are not ready to fight.” And that’s why they say every day that they will not send any American soldiers to Ukraine, no American planes to Ukraine. But it is you, the United States, who caused this situation and called this catastrophe on Ukraine!

Of course, my statement is not an invitation to the United States to go and fight Russia in Ukraine. I say this only to draw lessons from the current situation, for all those who trust the United States and place their hopes in them. The Ukrainian President asks (the US) to establish a no-fly zone in the skies over Ukraine to prevent Russian planes from hitting them. But they reply he gets is “Sorry, we can’t, because that would mean shooting down Russian planes, which would lead to war, and we are not ready to go to war with Russia for the sake of Ukraine.” Ukraine is calling for a total Western embargo on (Russian) oil and gas, which some countries are ready for, but others have responded frankly that they cannot do without Russian gas. Russian gas is still being sold, and its price has risen. So look at (the inconsistency): on the one hand, they impose sanctions on Russia, and on the other hand, they buy gas from it at high prices. That’s a (telling) example. The same goes for the Ukrainian request to obtain warplanes: the West refuses, because this would make it participate directly in the war. Are there not lessons to be learned there? They let Ukraine fight alone, because they are not ready to go to war for its sake. At most, they impose sanctions, a blockade, consistent with the American objective of weakening Russia. The US is acting in its own interest, not in the interest of Ukraine. This is the truth.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516188057967411210
Today, if we could enter the hearts and minds of Ukrainian officials, we would find a feeling of maximum abandonment and neglect. And that’s why (Zelensky) starts to come down from his pedestal: he announces that he is ready to negotiate, to discuss the neutrality of Ukraine and other Russian demands. Why is he starting to reconsider – if his American masters allow him, of course? Because he has realized that those who promised to stand by him, those in whom he trusted and in whom he placed all his hopes, those who put him in this situation, have abandoned him in the middle of the road. I and you have known this lesson (that the United States are treacherous) by heart for a very long time, but I repeat it because Biden is a new proof of it. And before coming to Lebanon, I conclude on the international situation by pointing out the moral collapse of the West. The West lectures us about Western civilization, morality, humanistic values, human rights, etc. But the situation shows their moral decay. Look at how they treat refugees. Black Africans are treated differently, as well as Asians, Muslims, etc. There is discrimination on the basis of religion, race, skin color. Is this the famous Western civilization that they harp on day and night, presenting it to us as a model to follow? Whole States are acting in this way, in an official way! One of the Presidents of these countries, in order to justify this decision (to discriminate in favor of the White Ukrainian refugees), answered that it was the will of his people, who had elected him on this basis. It is therefore a racist culture, which has no connection with humanism or morality!






As far as Lebanon is concerned, I would like to say to the (pro-Western) political forces that if they aspire to please the US, they will never succeed, because the American demands are unlimited and never stop. If anyone thinks that the US can be satisfied with this or that demand, they are deluding themselves, because tomorrow they will demand one, two, three, a hundred, a thousand other things. Their diktats do not stop at any limit. And satisfying them is detrimental to Lebanon’s interests without giving us any compensation. What did the Lebanese officials get in return for their submission? We are already deprived of electricity, gas and dollars by the American sanctions or vetoes, what more could they do?

Lebanon voted against Russia at the UN, when it could have chosen to abstain, as 35 countries did. This is what Lebanon’s national interest demanded: abstention. The Prime Minister of Pakistan said a few days ago, in the face of Western pressure for his country to take an anti-Russian position, “We are not your slaves.” This is an excellent position. It would be good if Lebanon would one day dare to stand up to the American embassy and say, “We are not your slaves.” This would be a proof of freedom, patriotism, sovereignty, independence. But the worst thing is the statement of the Lebanese Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Our level of submission is such that the US embassy demanded that this communiqué on Russia and Ukraine be amended to be more virulent against Russia, and this rewriting was made directly by the US embassy. […]

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Nasrallah: The war in Ukraine unmasked the racism and hypocrisy of the West | The Vineyard of the Saker


A bird's eye view of the vineyard




thesaker.is

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## nufix

Viet said:


> Today, 45 percent Germany power generation comes from renewable. It’s not if but when Germany doesn’t need gas imports from Russia. The gov thinks 4 years. Coal and oil imports from Russia will reduce to 0 by end of the year. Putin will sell oil, gas, coal dirty cheap to Asia.



True, but like I said, power consumption is not just for electricity. Gas import relates more to heating. True, you can theoretically change your heating to electrically powered heating like Wärmepumpe but that requires an enormous investments for 2/3 of all houses in Germany and since most people are not ready to shelve a minimum of 40k to upgrade their houses, the Government will have to subsidize not only the production of green power (green power production), but also the adoption of that (through higher subsidy of Wärmepumpe, EE-Sanierung, E-Auto, public mobility, and whatnot). Germany is not really in the position to embark on such level of spending considering they just stopped the subsidy for energy efficient houses KfW55 and below. 

To be honest, I am not that optimistic at all with reducing gas, oil, and coal import from Russia by the end of the year to 0 without bankrupting the state or the people through massive inflation because they need to source those energy somewhere else.

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## mmr

Hack-Hook said:


> Wrong proxy warfare traditionally belonged to economically weaker countries


Read again what i meant


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## mulj

WotTen said:


> Russian-origin Jews in Israel tend to be much more hardcore racist against Palestinians (and even African Jews) than Western-bred Jews. At least the ones who grew up in the West, or their parents grew up in the West, have grown up in multicultural, multiracial societies and have some respect for diversity.


It is common knowledge, i am sure that one of the reasons for russian presence in syria is protecting israel.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519630982328029184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519634872259731456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519628759116271616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519594594903674880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519592797220880384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519593662728097792

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519466321502740482

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519642318390927360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519591056345636864


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## ZeEa5KPul

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519466321502740482


Two months in and you're still spamming Twitter posts? How does it make you feel that Russia is going to take southern and eastern Ukraine and bomb the remaining rump state into rubble?

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## mmr

Biden to propose using assets seized from Russian oligarchs to compensate Ukraine​*US president Joe Biden is expected to ask Congress for billions of dollars in additional US spending to support Ukraine’s military as well as new legal authorities to siphon assets from Russian oligarchs to pay for the war effort.*

The White House said officials will seek the full amount they expect to need through September to support Ukraine’s military operations, as well as humanitarian and economic aid, its spokesperson Jen Psaki said.

The package of proposals would establish new authorities for cracking down on sanctions evasion and establish new protocols for how the seized funds can be used to help Ukraine rebuild.

Biden’s proposal would also enable the US to use proceeds from selling the seized assets of sanctioned Russian oligarchs “to remediate harms of Russian aggression toward Ukraine”.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519649218264281088


ZeEa5KPul said:


> Two months in and you're still spamming Twitter posts? How does it make you feel that Russia is going to take southern and eastern Ukraine and bomb the remaining rump state into rubble?


he can post what ever he wants.

he is not citizen of winnie the poh's country where every one has to follow mr.poh rules lol

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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519621346161876992

The depth of analysis by a Chinese girl in English using Romance of 3 Kingdoms.
English not her first language either.

More profound then the idiots of Murica UK NATO shit heads.

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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519580402872197120


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## DF41

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Two months in and you're still spamming Twitter posts? How does it make you feel that Russia is going to take southern and eastern Ukraine and bomb the remaining rump state into rubble?




Russia not going to bomb that Azovstal steel plant, remnant of Mariupol as that can be so easily done.

Among other top brass hiding in the cellar there, there is this Canadian General that Russia want to capture and put on trial, hopefully followed by public hanging


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519640577423331329

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## Vergennes

DF41 said:


> Russia not going to bomb that Azovstal steel plant, remnant of Mariupol as that can be so easily done.
> 
> Among other top brass hiding in the cellar there, there is this Canadian General that Russia want to capture and put on trial, hopefully followed by public hanging
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519640577423331329



Hope you get your 5 yuans/post for polluting this thread with BS.

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## Ich

Vergennes said:


> Hope you get your 5 yuans/post for polluting this thread with BS.



*5 Yuans! 😮 *Some would make billions here ^^

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## White privilege

This is getting comical.Russians could fight like this for years and this won't be over.Seriously doubting Russian bombast now....


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## CAPRICORN-88



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## vi-va

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518547313270345728
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518290213356802048
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518575266427113473

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519638551176044544


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519380955584417792

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519681433157226496


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519339462001672192


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## Viet

nufix said:


> True, but like I said, power consumption is not just for electricity. Gas import relates more to heating. True, you can theoretically change your heating to electrically powered heating like Wärmepumpe but that requires an enormous investments for 2/3 of all houses in Germany and since most people are not ready to shelve a minimum of 40k to upgrade their houses, the Government will have to subsidize not only the production of green power (green power production), but also the adoption of that (through higher subsidy of Wärmepumpe, EE-Sanierung, E-Auto, public mobility, and whatnot). Germany is not really in the position to embark on such level of spending considering they just stopped the subsidy for energy efficient houses KfW55 and below.
> 
> To be honest, I am not that optimistic at all with reducing gas, oil, and coal import from Russia by the end of the year to 0 without bankrupting the state or the people through massive inflation because they need to source those energy somewhere else.


You don’t understand. It’s not about no more natural gas but no more gas from Russia.
Germany will import gas from US, Saudi and Arab sheiks, and who knows from Indonesia.
Today Germany gives 200 million euros gas bill to Putin. Per day. In the future that money goes to other people’s pockets.
Putin will get 0 euros.
It’s about making Russians poorer.

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## F-22Raptor

White House sends Congress $33B request for Ukraine


The package is by far the largest single funding proposal of the war.




www.politico.com






US to seek additional $33B in military funding for Ukraine

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## Viet

SalarHaqq said:


> Russia has a PLAN… …the West does not​*by Jorge Vilches for the Saker Blog*
> 
> 22642 Views | April 26, 2022 | 91 Comments
> 
> *Russia has a PLAN…*
> 
> Like it or not, it is fairly obvious that Russia today is leading events and continues to affect reality mostly in the way that she believes is in her best strategic interests. In other words, cornered Russia had a *Plan*, a tangible, thought-out, thoroughly vetted – most probably in writing – articulate, fairly all-inclusive, flexible enough yet in-depth *Plan* that we now learn took years to conceive, develop and massage in multiple fronts. So today Russian leaders focus on the same page swiftly singing along agreed “_choir book lyrics_” so to speak. Militarily, in due time Russia will succeed per her own goals & terms, not ours. Second-guessing Russia´s *Plan* is now a blogosphere sport amongst commentariati, but really to no avail. Only “observer” status is granted if not a Russian national with deep involvement in its execution.
> 
> *… the West does not*
> 
> Meanwhile, Western “unfriendlies” respond flat-footed like disjointed cartoon characters angrily improvising piecemeal reactions sometimes doubling down on doubtful… if not plain dead-wrong… decisions which are later flip-flopped trying catch up with Russian-led events. *Elmer Fudd* comes to mind per Ref #5. All the sanctions imposed on Russia have been counter-productive and the Rouble today is stronger than ever. The underlying factor that governs the worldwide Big Bang Breton Woods III revolution (more on that later) is that, for better or for worse, Russia has a *Plan* and the West just reacts with hit-and-miss off-balance punches zig-zagging its way along without North or compass.
> 
> Ref #1 https://www.ekathimerini.com/news/1...support-for-total-embargo-on-russian-oil-gas/
> Ref #2 https://money.usnews.com/investing/...-roubles-proposal-without-breaching-sanctions – Ref # 3 https://www.rt.com/business/554534-eu-country-rejects-ruble-gas/
> Ref # 4 https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...ng-nuclear-war-germany-approves-tanks-ukraine
> Ref #5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmer_Fudd
> 
> *White House piracy *
> 
> In his State of the Union world press opportunity days ago sitting US President Joseph Robinette Biden forever unable to get a grip on events had the nerve to propose an active US-Europe piracy program to “…_find and _*seize* [Russian owned] _yachts, apartments and jets_…”“Our goal is *not* to give them back” – officially and proudly declared US National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan Ref #6 https://tass.com/world/1437923 + Ref # 7 https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...iden-state-of-the-union-address-as-delivered/
> 
> So in order to remain coherent with the currently unconscionable US-European mad-house, one next step in the works — preferably under the supervision of surely knowledgeable stiff upper lip UK Royal Navy instructors – would be for Russian ships to be seized in international waters (cargo included) just like pirates in the 17th century British Caribbean. Don´t smile, as Argentina, Venezuela, Iran and Libya have already been through this not that long ago.
> 
> And while they are at it, these ´special forces´ could also comply with the US President´s program by looking out for aircraft of any size, type or purpose – including drones and choppers – plus all fine cars & motorcycles, boats, real estate, embassies, consulates, works of art, jewelry, property at large either government or privately owned. They´ve already seized the Gazprom subsidiary Germania because of its sudden “_violations to German trade law_”, so…
> 
> Ref #8 https://worldview.stratfor.com/situation-report/germany-berlin-seizes-german-subsidiary-gazprom
> Ref #9 https://www.rferl.org/a/germany-gazprom-subsidiary-takeover/31785610.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *145 million Martians *– I kid you not
> 
> Constitutional Scholar US Judge Andrew Napolitano summarized it with eloquence : _“As if to run even further away from US constitutional norms, a group of legal academics began arguing last week that the property seized from Russians is not really owned by _*human beings*.” If not humans, what would 145 million Russians be then ? “_As well, when the [US] feds interfere with contract rights by prohibiting compliance with lawful contracts, that, too, implicates due process and can only be done constitutionally after a jury verdict in the government’s favor, at a trial at which the [US] feds have been able to prove fault…Similarly, when they freeze Russian assets in American banks, they engage in a seizure, and seizures can only constitutionally be done with a search warrant based on probable cause of crime” _
> 
> *Can´t make this stuff up*… Ref #10 https://www.lewrockwell.com/2022/04/andrew-p-napolitano/using-war-to-assault-freedom/
> 
> *Mad Max*
> 
> So visualize high-tech policing forces mandated by the Western-world´s top leader with the mission of seizing Russian whatever anywhere international, including mid-flight. And ask yourself, why not ? It´d be consistent with other measures already taken along the same lines. Please recall that the Western “unfriendlies” — with absolutely no legal teeth — by means of a few keyboard strokes have already frozen (and will eventually “arrest”…) Russia´s international banking accounts to the tune of several *hundreds of billions of dollars*… that still are 100% “un-usable”, as in worth-less… and which our Western “unfriendlies” per US National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan might even think of confiscating altogether, no ? So let´s not mince words and, as the Canadian truckers´ experience proved, today Western world property rights (_dominium proprietas_) as we have known them for many centuries *have ceased to exist.
> 
> Harassment to nowhere*
> 
> “_The [Russian] embassy is essentially under a blockade by the US authorities. Bank of America has shut down the accounts of our general consulates in Houston and New York_” Ambassador Anatoly Antonov added that diplomats are also receiving threats. How can the much-claimed diplomacy effort ever succeed if the Russian embassy in the US is under blockade with acts of vandalism on the building? Attacks on Russian missions also took place elsewhere, with vehicles rammed into the gates in Dublin and Bucharest. Activists defaced mission buildings with paint in Austria and Latvia. Ref # 11 https://www.rt.com/russia/554433-russian-embassy-blocked-washington/
> 
> *Along the same lines, the West also has and keeps trying very hard to divide the Russians, to no avail.
> 
> The West just keeps sending weapons to Ukraine hoping to prolong the conflict and bleed out Russia.*
> 
> _“Statista”_ reports that the number of sanctions against Russian individuals and entities imposed by the US, the EU and select countries like Switzerland, the UK and Japan before 22 February was 2754 and between 22 February and 8 March was 2827, of which 366 on entities and remaining on individuals. Adding up both sums means a grand total of *5581 active sanctions* today on Russia “the most sanctioned country in the world”. Full credit to T. Sabri Öncü per
> 
> Ref # 12 https://www.primeeconomics.org/arti...-ukraine-and-the-weaponisation-of-everything/
> Ref # 13 https://www.statista.com/chart/27015/number-of-currently-active-sanctions-by-target-country/
> 
> A sixth package of sanctions against Russia would come as early as next week including a ban on Russian oil imports plus also targeting more Russian banks. Ref # 14 https://www.rt.com/business/554393-russia-oil-embargo-options-west/
> 
> *More Guantanamos*
> 
> And to be fully consistent, as the US did with Japanese communities during WW2, it would be expected for Russian-born individuals now in Western countries – tourists, students, children, researchers and diplomats included — to end up jailed in Guantanamos somewhere. Yet again, why not ? Because if the idea is *to bother and “punish” Russia*, the size and type of “seizure” would not matter much as long as it serves the stated purpose. So the philosophy may well be to just keep prodding the Russian bear until it slips… ( like with a nuclear slip a-la-9/11 ?) … once it gets fed up of so much terribly arbitrary and needless harm. The problem is that militarily speaking the Russians seem to be more than ready for such, *Always.Being.Ahead.Of.Events*. Apparently our civilized West does not have anything near a “Plan” other than provoking Russia as fast as possible as long as possible with the largest possible damage, right ?
> 
> *Over the cuckoos nest*
> 
> If on New Year´s Eve 2022 – only 4 short months ago and with a splendid Nord Stream 2 Russia-Europe oil & gas shining pipeline 100% ready for commissioning — somebody had premonitioned anything anywhere close to the current European suicidal strategy… most probably such individual would have been readily admissioned in a mental care institution for careful evaluation of unavoidable experimental therapies for such unprecedented delusions.
> 
> As Russian officials have pretty much repeated in so many words: “_We don´t have to be friends if you don´t want to, only arms-length trading partners and business associates. But don´t make us your enemies, we do not want or need to have enemies, and _*neither should you*_”_. Mind you, under any jurisprudence self-defense is still 100% legitimate.
> 
> *Nazi nightmares*
> 
> Germans still endure a very deep shameful-guilt complex regarding what led to and happened during World War 2. Today, Europe at large is working and bullying very hard to eventually develop – or exceed — the very same guilt complex without ever stopping for one single minute to follow and understand what Europe – actively fostered by the US and UK – is doing to Russia for no reason or gain of its own, only self-damage. Plain unwarranted *Russophobia*.
> 
> [ hint: don´t love them, just do business… ]
> 
> “…_there are 30-some right-wing extremist groups operating in Ukraine – _(all numerous and US-trained)_ — that have been formally integrated into Ukraine’s armed forces…which promote an intolerant and illiberal ideology… _”
> 
> Ref # 15 https://www.newsweek.com/evidence-war-crimes-committed-ukrainian-nationalist-volunteers-grows-269604
> Ref # 16 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-idUSKBN1GV2TY
> Ref # 17 https://www.smh.com.au/business/how-bankers-helped-the-nazis-20130801-2r1fd.html
> 
> *Russia AWOL*
> 
> Europe has not yet understood the implications of Russia now going full speed ahead for import substitution policies with the *80% of the world* that still trades and works hard on planet Earth. Russia has already well underway specific agendas for the immediate welcome and establishment of Chinese and Indian SMBs into Russia´s new Bretton Woods III economy leaving Western “unfriendlies” aside and strengthening ties with countries just as sick and tired of Western bullying nonsense as Russia is after being badly pushed around so much for so long. While Europe – and the Western world at large – badly needs Russian produce at *any* cost*. *Paraphrasing infamous US Treasury Secretary John Connally, smirking a Mona Lisa smile, Russians could now say *“Sorry, our commodities, your problem”…
> 
> De-globalization for YOU, not us *
> 
> True enough, consumer societies and globalized economies may soon be ending for the 20% of the Western world. But the remaining *80%* of world population is currently undergoing a massive crowding-in process simply trying to join the unavoidable forces of history behind the Russia-led spanking new Big Bang. Those left out would have nowhere to hide, constituting the real ´_pariahs on the global stage´_ that White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki has been keenly looking for lately the poor soul.
> 
> In her *Plan* — not without difficulties — Russia already has huge fallback trading partners willing and able to join Russia´s Bretton Woods III arrangements, including no more and no less than bellwether China and India. The recent “_no limits_” agreement with China is simply *fully* *unprecedented*. This “_New Yorker_” article clearly explains why
> 
> Ref # 18 https://www.newyorker.com/news/dail...na-unveil-a-pact-against-america-and-the-west
> Ref # 19 https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/14/why-is-istandwithputin-trending-in
> 
> *quo vadis Europa* ?
> 
> Europe, instead, has left itself deeply confused hanging idly high and dry in a vacuum chamber neither
> 
> complying with the Minsk agreements that Europeans actively pursued and endorsed, which would mean working with Russia, not 100% against it, nor
> finding a viable and reasonable European outcome for their nonsensical Russophobia – mission impossible
> understanding how badly Europe needs sustained import of Russian + Ukraine commodities for years to come
> The lack of sufficient current and future stable year-round supply of Russian unreplaceable produce will mean very bad news for Europe. This includes *many other essentials* besides the specific Russian oil & gas & coal grades without which in a matter of months if not weeks Europe will become un-livable chaos with rolling power black-outs, fuels and food very hard to find enough of… with migrants roaming and ´camping out´ in streets, parks or churchyards and cemeteries (yes, just like in North Africa…) without shelter, food, health care, schools, jobs or money… and with the tired European middle-classes inevitably joining the coming revolt sooner rather than later. Per The Guardian, “…_come October, it’s going to get horrific, _*truly horrific *… _a scale beyond what we can deal with”. _
> 
> Rabobank´s take on food security is that: “ *When The ´Food System´ Breaks Down, Everything Will Break Down With It*”.
> 
> Ref # 20 https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ll-into-fuel-poverty-in-truly-horrific-winter Ref #21 https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/r...tem-breaks-down-everything-will-break-down-it
> 
> *5 short questions*
> 
> Are there any adults left in the European room ?
> Why the unwarranted tone-deaf Russophobia ??
> Does Europe want to provoke Russia into war ???
> Are Europeans willing to keep the US and UK as their belligerent handlers ????
> Ref # 22 https://asiatimes.com/2022/04/us-a-co-belligerent-in-ukraine-war-legal-expert-says/
> Ref # 23 https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022...omise-ukraine-more-aid-return-of-us-diplomats
> Ref # 24 https://www.rt.com/news/554494-uk-stormer-vehicles-ukraine/
> Ref # 25 https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...-and-national-security-advisor-jake-sullivan/
> 
> *Why not follow German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder on this topic ?????*
> Ref # 26 https://www.rt.com/news/554411-germany-needs-russia-schroeder/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has a PLAN… …the West does not | The Vineyard of the Saker
> 
> 
> A bird's eye view of the vineyard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thesaker.is


Russian real income sunk by 27,8 percent in Q1.

Everything goes according to plan.

- Vladimir Putin


----------



## F-22Raptor

The White House is requesting Congress provide more than $33 billion to fund an emergency aid package to Ukraine, which includes $16.4 billion for the Defense Department, $14.1 billion for the State Department and the rest of the funding divided among other executive branch agencies.

The DOD portion of the request, which among other things would establish a new “Critical Munitions Acquisition Fund,” includes $11.6 billion in funding to provide additional weapons and capabilities to the Ukrainian military as it attempts to fight off an ongoing Russian invasion, according to a White House fact sheet.

The DOD funding includes $6 billion for the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative, which directly supports Ukraine by funding the acquisition of weapons, and $5.4 billion to replenish U.S. stocks provided to Ukraine under presidential drawdown authority.

Key weapon systems include additional artillery, armored vehicles, anti-armor and anti-air capabilities, as well as cyber capabilities and advanced air defense systems.

Additionally, the DOD funding would put $2.6 billion toward the deployment of U.S. military units to support the U.S. European Command and NATO.

A further $1.9 billion would be spent on “cybersecurity, intelligence and other support,” the fact sheet states.

“This funding supports ongoing operational surges across multiple national defense components, including accelerated cyber capabilities, weapons systems upgrades, increased intelligence support, improving industrial base production capabilities for missiles and strategic minerals, and classified programs,” the fact sheet states.

Another $550 million in the DOD portion of the request would be spent on critical munitions and defense exports.

“This includes $500 million to establish a Critical Munitions Acquisition Fund to procure high-demand munitions for the U.S. and approved coalition partners, build critical war reserves, and expedite availability of munition systems,” the fact sheet states. 

An additional $50 million would be used to establish a “Defense Exportability Transfer Account” to enable DOD to make more systems “exportable and coalition interoperable,” according to the fact sheet.

The State Department portion of the request would be used to “bolster U.S. economic and security assistance to Ukraine as well as regional allies and partners (e.g. Poland, Lithuania, the Baltics, and Eastern flank countries),” the fact sheet states.

The request also includes $1.2 billion for the Department of Health and Human Services to support Ukrainians entering the United States through a special assistance program.

The Treasury Department request for $650 million would allow the United States to “work through the international financial institutions to support Ukraine and other countries impacted by the crisis,” according to the fact sheet.

The request also includes $620 million for the Agriculture Department to mitigate global food disruptions, as well as $67 million for the Justice Department to support a task force aimed at pursuing “high value asset seizures of sanctioned individuals related to Russian actions in Ukraine,” the fact sheet states.






White House seeks $33B supplemental spending package for Ukraine | InsideDefense.com


The White House is requesting Congress provide more than $33 billion to fund an emergency aid package to Ukraine, which includes $16.4 billion for the Defense Department, $14.1 billion for the State Department and the rest of the funding divided among other executive branch agencies.




insidedefense.com

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## Trango Towers

mulj said:


> I will beleive when it happens what you say about russia repositioning its commitments along with concrete actions.


Well that's a fact. Until it happens no one will be 100%

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Saudi and Arab sheiks, and who knows from Indonesia.


KSA is not well known for its Gas reserve. by the way if you buy Gas from another source , then another one who already buy from that source have to go and buy from somewhere else namely Russia so nothing gained here

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## Corax

Western hypocrisy has no limits...how can you trust anyone who has no shame in their own lies and deceit?!

German energy giant Uniper gives in to Russian rouble demand​*The European Commission said last week that if buyers of Russian gas could complete payments in euros and get confirmation of this before any conversion into roubles took place, that would not breach sanctions.*

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61257846



> *One of Germany's biggest energy firms has said it is preparing to buy Russian gas using a payment system that critics say will undermine EU sanctions.*





> Uniper says it will pay in euros which will be converted into roubles, meeting a Kremlin demand for all transactions to be made in the Russian currency.
> Other European energy firms are reportedly preparing to do the same amid concerns about supply cuts.
> Uniper said it had no choice but said it was still abiding by EU sanctions.
> "We consider a payment conversion compliant with sanctions law and the Russian decree to be possible," a spokesman told the BBC.
> "For our company and for Germany as a whole, it is not possible to do without Russian gas in the short term; this would have dramatic consequences for our economy."
> Germany's biggest energy supplier RWE declined to comment on how it would pay for Russian gas.
> In late March, Russia said "unfriendly countries" would have to start paying for its oil and gas in roubles to prop up its currency after Western allies froze billions of dollars it held in foreign currencies overseas.
> Under the decree, European importers must pay euros or dollars into an account at Gazprombank, the Swiss-based trading arm of Gazprom, and then convert this into roubles in a second account in Russia.
> *The European Commission said last week that if buyers of Russian gas could complete payments in euros and get confirmation of this before any conversion into roubles took place, that would not breach sanctions.*
> However there are different views among countries on how to interpret its initial guidance, and this week EC boss Ursula von der Lyon sparked confusion when she said firms could still be breaking the rules.
> On Thursday, an EU official confirmed that any attempt to convert cash into roubles in Russia would be a "clear circumvention of sanctions" as the transaction would involve Russia's central bank.
> "What we cannot accept is that companies are obliged to open a second account and that between the first and second account, the amount in euros is in the full hands of the Russian authorities and the Russian Central Bank, and that the payment is only complete when it is converted into roubles."
> 
> On Tuesday, Poland and Bulgaria both refused to pay for gas in roubles leading to Russian state gas firm Gazprom shutting off supplies.
> Both countries had already planned not to renew their contracts with Gazprom when they expired later in 2022.
> Poland - one of the staunchest advocates of tougher sanctions on Russia - said the EU should penalise countries that used roubles to pay for Russian gas,
> Climate minister Anna Moskwa singled out Germany, Hungary and Austria as resisting a gas embargo.
> "We are counting on there being consequences for these countries [which pay in roubles] and that as a result they will cease paying in roubles," she said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The move by Russia - which has not given countries the same deadline to begin paying in roubles - is seen as an attempt to divide Western allies in their response over Ukraine.
> The majority - 97% - of EU companies' gas supply contracts with Gazprom stipulate payment in euros or dollars.
> Hungary and Slovakia have both openly said they will use Russia's conversion payment method, while German economy minister Robert Habeck said on Wednesday that it was "the path that the EU marked out for us".
> "It's the path that is compatible with sanctions, and as far as I understand the German companies that are doing it this way are in compliance with their contracts," he said. "Most EU countries are taking this approach."
> Europe gets about 40% of its natural gas from Russia, but for some countries it is much higher and a sudden supply cut could have a huge economic impact.
> "A lot of European companies will say OK, we'll pay into a euro-denominated bank account and there will be a back-to-back trade so they stay within the limits of the EU sanctions," said Nathan Piper, an energy analyst at Investec.
> "But there are two sides of this - those firms need to supply gas to consumers and in Germany there is no alternative to supplies of Russian gas right now."
> According to the Financial Times, Austrian energy giant OMV is also planning to adopt the mechanism while Italy's Eni is considering such a move.
> Eni declined to comment while OMV denied it was opening a Swiss account with Gazprom. It told the BBC: "We have analysed the Gazprom request about payment methods in light of the EU-sanctions and are now working on a sanctions-compliant solution."

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## F-22Raptor

Ukraines yearly military budget is around $6B. The US is now about to inject $20B in new weapons packages for Ukraine. 

Ukraines military is going to be stronger in the coming months than it has ever been.

Russia is in a completely unsustainable position.

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> KSA is not well known for its Gas reserve. by the way if you buy Gas from another source , then another one who already buy from that source have to go and buy from somewhere else namely Russia so nothing gained here


Katar has gas. Lots of. The Katar sheiks will ship liquid gas to mobile gas terminals. not cheap. Rental rate: 200,000 euros per day. As I said the money just goes to other people’s pockets. Germany wants to sign contract for 4 ships, to meet Germany gas demands you need 12 such ships. Will be a race against the clock.









Schwimmende LNG-Terminals: Baustart in Wilhelmshaven bereits nächste Woche


Wirtschaftsminister Habeck will vier weitere Spezialschiffe anmieten – für jeweils 200.000 Dollar pro Tag. Bereits kommende Woche soll es mit Vorverträgen und dem Bau in Wilhelmshaven losgehen.




app.handelsblatt.com


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraines yearly military budget is around $6B. The US is now about to inject $20B in new weapons packages for Ukraine.
> 
> Ukraines military is going to be stronger in the coming months than it has ever been.
> 
> Russia is in a completely unsustainable position.



20 billion is nothing. Can't even take back a village. The US needs to go big or go home. 1 trillion package might be enough to take back a good sized city.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519586400143912960


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## Type59

Viet said:


> Katar has gas. Lots of. The Katar sheiks will ship liquid gas to mobile gas terminals. not cheap. Rental rate: 200,000 euros per day. As I said the money just goes to other people’s pockets. Germany wants to sign contract for 4 ships, to meet Germany gas demands you need 12 such ships. Will be a race against the clock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Schwimmende LNG-Terminals: Baustart in Wilhelmshaven bereits nächste Woche
> 
> 
> Wirtschaftsminister Habeck will vier weitere Spezialschiffe anmieten – für jeweils 200.000 Dollar pro Tag. Bereits kommende Woche soll es mit Vorverträgen und dem Bau in Wilhelmshaven losgehen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> app.handelsblatt.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 838695



Where should the rest of world get gas? Qatar can't supply world demand. Atleast pressure is off Iran🙂

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Corax said:


> Western hypocrisy has no limits...how can you trust anyone who has no shame in their own lies and deceit?!
> 
> German energy giant Uniper gives in to Russian rouble demand​*The European Commission said last week that if buyers of Russian gas could complete payments in euros and get confirmation of this before any conversion into roubles took place, that would not breach sanctions.*
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61257846




Here is Italy's energy giant ENi who also paid in rubles for Russian gas. This clearly means different European countries are pursuing their own separate national interest while paying lib service to overall EU policy towards Russia.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519371416998711296

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## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraines yearly military budget is around $6B. The US is now about to inject $20B in new weapons packages for Ukraine.
> 
> Ukraines military is going to be stronger in the coming months than it has ever been.
> 
> Russia is in a completely unsustainable position.



Unless the US can train the Ukrainians to use F-16s, Abrams, Apaches, etc and give them these weapons, then no, it won't make a difference if all they can offer is infantry level equipment.

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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Katar has gas. Lots of. The Katar sheiks will ship liquid gas to mobile gas terminals. not cheap. Rental rate: 200,000 euros per day. As I said the money just goes to other people’s pockets. Germany wants to sign contract for 4 ships, to meet Germany gas demands you need 12 such ships. Will be a race against the clock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Schwimmende LNG-Terminals: Baustart in Wilhelmshaven bereits nächste Woche
> 
> 
> Wirtschaftsminister Habeck will vier weitere Spezialschiffe anmieten – für jeweils 200.000 Dollar pro Tag. Bereits kommende Woche soll es mit Vorverträgen und dem Bau in Wilhelmshaven losgehen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> app.handelsblatt.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 838695


Qatar production capacity is limited , you sell to Germany in such fashion , then somebody else had to go and buy from Russia instead . the only difference both of German and that someone had to get the gas at higher price , the winner is USA

and by the way some people in KSA maybe consider Qatar as part of their country , but in reality its a complete different country

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## Viet

Type59 said:


> Where should the rest of world get gas? Qatar can't supply world demand. Atleast pressure is of Iran🙂


The West including the US wants to sign a deal with Iran. Russia is the bigger threat. Iran can deliver gas to EU. Also, Venezuela.


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## F-22Raptor

Corax said:


> Unless the US can train the Ukrainians to use F-16s, Abrams, Apaches, etc and give them these weapons, then no, it won't make a difference if all they can offer is infantry level equipment.



Russia has lost over 3,300 pieces of armor, aircraft, etc. Including nearly 600 tanks in 2 months of warfare.

Who are you trying to convince that these weapons aren't working?


----------



## Trango Towers

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraines yearly military budget is around $6B. The US is now about to inject $20B in new weapons packages for Ukraine.
> 
> Ukraines military is going to be stronger in the coming months than it has ever been.
> 
> Russia is in a completely unsustainable position.


And russias military budget is what?


----------



## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia has lost over 3,300 pieces of armor, aircraft, etc. Including nearly 600 tanks in 2 months of warfare.
> 
> Who are you trying to convince that these weapons aren't working?



I never said they are not working ...but the Russians have a limitless supply chain to replace them, they are insignificant numbers compared with the size of the Russian armed forces. However, these weapons are ineffective against cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, long range artillery, etc...to the Russians, knocking out a few thousand pieces of outdated armour and losing around 15,000 troops is peanuts...you rednecks still do not yet understand this, because you're used to hiding behind your carpet bombing of civilians and children in Iraq and Afghanistan, and afraid of heavy losses...the Russians simply don't care.

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## Apollon

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Two months in and you're still spamming Twitter posts? How does it make you feel that Russia is going to take southern and eastern Ukraine and bomb the remaining rump state into rubble?



So far Russia took nothing and Russia itself sinks into the abyss. 


Beside that its first time in history that a nation pays reparations in advance. The 400 billion € taken from russia will be used to rebuild Ukraine.

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## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraines yearly military budget is around $6B. The US is now about to inject $20B in new weapons packages for Ukraine.
> 
> Ukraines military is going to be stronger in the coming months than it has ever been.
> 
> Russia is in a completely unsustainable position.


That’s massive. Almost 1/3 of russia military budget.


----------



## Apollon

Corax said:


> I never said they are not working ...but the Russians have a limitless supply chain to replace them, they are insignificant numbers compared with the size of the Russian armed forces. However, these weapons are ineffective against cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, long range artillery, etc...to the Russians, knocking out a few thousand pieces of outdated armour and losing around 15,000 troops is peanuts...you rednecks still do not yet understand this, because you're used to hiding behind your carpet bombing of civilians and children in Iraq and Afghanistan, and afraid of heavy losses...the Russians simply don't care.



No its not Peanuts. Russia has one of lowest birthrates on the globe. Each dead russian soldier is a family line that ends. 


Russians do care. Thats why they retreated. The more killed, the more Ukraine wins. Its easy equation.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> No its not Peanuts. Russia has one of lowest birthrates on the globe. Each dead russian soldier is a family line that ends.
> 
> 
> Russians do care. Thats why they retreated. The more killed, the more Ukraine wins. Its easy equation.



It is well documented war stimulates sexual activity and increases birth rate. Because war is common in human history prior to 1950, human population has been increase quite dramatically. In 1991 Russia had a population of 150 million. War would increase Russian population to that many if not more.

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## Get Ya Wig Split



Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> White House sends Congress $33B request for Ukraine
> 
> 
> The package is by far the largest single funding proposal of the war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.politico.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US to seek additional $33B in military funding for Ukraine


Thats Insane.

Seems usa now really believe Ukraine will win. Pretty sure usa is pushing all other countries to do more as well.

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## Apollon

Tai Hai Chen said:


> It is well documented war stimulates sexual activity and increases birth rate. Because war is common in human history prior to 1950, human population has been increase quite dramatically. In 1991 Russia had a population of 150 million. War would increase Russian population to that many if not more.



You mean putin plants to fire babies on the battlefield? Sickening. 


You know what decreases birthrates? A 27% collapse of income within just 2 months.

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## nang2

mmr said:


> Thats Insane.
> 
> Seems usa now really believe Ukraine will win. Pretty sure usa is pushing all other countries to do more as well.


It would cost USA much more if Ukraine loses.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Corax said:


> I never said they are not working ...but the Russians have a limitless supply chain to replace them, they are insignificant numbers compared with the size of the Russian armed forces. However, these weapons are ineffective against cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, long range artillery, etc...to the Russians, knocking out a few thousand pieces of outdated armour and losing around 15,000 troops is peanuts...you rednecks still do not yet understand this, because you're used to hiding behind your carpet bombing of civilians and children in Iraq and Afghanistan, and afraid of heavy losses...the Russians simply don't care.




Russia does not have a limitless supply chain. Thats an utter lie. They have very few reserves they can inject into Ukraine and their ability to develop modern weapons is severely hampered by Western sanctions.

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## The SC

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519583863336484864


----------



## mmr

Viet said:


> Katar has gas. Lots of. The Katar sheiks will ship liquid gas to mobile gas terminals. not cheap. Rental rate: 200,000 euros per day. As I said the money just goes to other people’s pockets. Germany wants to sign contract for 4 ships, to meet Germany gas demands you need 12 such ships. Will be a race against the clock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Schwimmende LNG-Terminals: Baustart in Wilhelmshaven bereits nächste Woche
> 
> 
> Wirtschaftsminister Habeck will vier weitere Spezialschiffe anmieten – für jeweils 200.000 Dollar pro Tag. Bereits kommende Woche soll es mit Vorverträgen und dem Bau in Wilhelmshaven losgehen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> app.handelsblatt.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 838695


Forget qarar. Usa is developing massive lng and will be main provider to eu in future. Canada also has one of the largest reserves in the world both gas and oil.



Type59 said:


> Where should the rest of world get gas? Qatar can't supply world demand. Atleast pressure is off Iran🙂


Usa and canada.


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519709389334237191


----------



## mmr

nang2 said:


> It would cost USA much more if Ukraine loses.


Not really. Usa is already a winner. Massive market for us oil and gas. Largest in the world. And huge market for us arms industry not to mention entire eu will have no choice but work with usa when it comes to asia pacific as well.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519700847894175747

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519701268314431490

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519600243825954819


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519701381636108290

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519590404261302272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519612903099404289


----------



## nufix

Viet said:


> You don’t understand. It’s not about no more natural gas but no more gas from Russia.
> Germany will import gas from US, Saudi and Arab sheiks, and who knows from Indonesia.
> Today Germany gives 200 million euros gas bill to Putin. Per day. In the future that money goes to other people’s pockets.
> Putin will get 0 euros.
> It’s about making Russians poorer.




Check the last sentence of my post. I said, i am not too optimistic about not importing energy from Russia by the end of this year without bankrupting the state of having its citizen subjected to energy price inflation. Mind you Germany is already hitting 39% inflation in Gas and Oil prices by March this year. Normally, we would already call it an onset of hyperinflation.

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## nang2

mmr said:


> Not really. Usa is already a winner. Massive market for us oil and gas. Largest in the world. And huge market for us arms industry not to mention entire eu will have no choice but work with usa when it comes to asia pacific as well.


It costs USA its reputation. The same way Soviet suffered when China invaded Vietnam in 1979, which basically marked the end of its expansion. If Ukraine loses, then NATO expansion to the rest of the world would lose its credibility.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519652466853359616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519630171699036160


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519660064721756160

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Haha Haha:
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## Corax

Viet said:


> That’s massive. Almost 1/3 of russia military budget.



Only USD20bn in military aid, the rest is economic and humanitarian aid.

The proposal includes $20m in military assistance to Ukraine, $8.5bn in economic support and $3bn for humanitarian aid. As well as money to help with global food shortages caused by the war.

Edit: Mistake in the BBC article, should be USD20bn, not million.

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## F-22Raptor

Ukraine has been provided $4-5B in US military aid to date. A jump to $15-20B in weapons packages is enough to last Ukraine at least another 6 months.


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

DF41 said:


> Russia not going to bomb that Azovstal steel plant, remnant of Mariupol as that can be so easily done.
> 
> Among other top brass hiding in the cellar there, there is this Canadian General that Russia want to capture and put on trial, hopefully followed by public hanging
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519640577423331329


Russia isn't going to bomb the parts of Ukraine populated by Russians that it wants to take. What it's going to bomb heavily are the portions of western Ukraine that have a hostile, recalcitrant population that it cannot absorb.

Ukraine is too large for a European country and needs to be resized.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Corax said:


> Only USD20m in military aid, the rest is economic and humanitarian aid.
> 
> The proposal includes $20m in military assistance to Ukraine, $8.5bn in economic support and $3bn for humanitarian aid. As well as money to help with global food shortages caused by the war.



Its $20B not million

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## ZeEa5KPul

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519660064721756160


Any Canadian who would fight alongside Nazis is a traitor. I hope Russia makes an example of him.

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## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia does not have a limitless supply chain. Thats an utter lie. They have very few reserves they can inject into Ukraine and their ability to develop modern weapons is severely hampered by Western sanctions.



Since when has the USSR or the Russians for that matter ever needed to rely on the "west" for weapons development?! What a stupid argument!

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## Abid123

Viet said:


> That’s massive. Almost 1/3 of russia military budget.


Russia's military budget is 150 billion PPP.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> Its $20B not million



20 billion is too little. Need 20 trillion at least.

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## nang2

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Any Canadian who would fight alongside Nazis is a traitor. I hope Russia makes an example of him.


Hear, hear!

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## mmr

nang2 said:


> It costs USA its reputation. The same way Soviet suffered when China invaded Vietnam in 1979, which basically marked the end of its expansion. If Ukraine loses, then NATO expansion to the rest of the world would lose its credibility.


Lets wait and see. You do have a good point.


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519701381636108290


Cute. How many powerful blasts were heard in Ukraine since the start of this war?

Whatcha gonna do, brother!? Whatcha gonna do when Russomania runs wild on you!

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## mmr

Corax said:


> Only USD20m in military aid, the rest is economic and humanitarian aid.
> 
> The proposal includes $20m in military assistance to Ukraine, $8.5bn in economic support and $3bn for humanitarian aid. As well as money to help with global food shortages caused by the war.


u need copium lmao


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519400869577601026

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## mmr

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519400869577601026


this will make russia rich lol


----------



## nang2

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519400869577601026


Russians are very practical people, not much hypocrisy. Since they have suffered a lot, they want something back for that. The current strategy is to carve out a part of Ukraine. The same strategy will be pursued by Poles when they carve out a part of western Ukraine for themselves. The difference is that Poles are more hypocritical and less straightforward about the intention.

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## ZeEa5KPul

In addition to being a Nazi-collaborating traitor, he's also being accused of sexual misconduct. It disgusts me that this piece of crap ever wore the uniform:








Retired Canadian lieutenant-general under police investigation for alleged sexual misconduct is now in Ukraine


Trevor Cadieu, a retired Canadian Forces lieutenant-general under investigation for alleged sexual misconduct is now in Ukraine.




ottawacitizen.com

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## Corax

People still don't get it, unless the US is willing to give the Ukrainians F-16s, Abrams, Apaches etc, it won't make a meaningful difference on the ground. The Ukrainians have lost an equal number of troops and armour, but people here seem to be forgetting that, and those numbers hurt the Ukrainians more than the Russians. It's not Americans or Europeans dying by the tens of thousands, but Ukrainians. The US and West can keep on pumping billions into Ukraine.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Apollon said:


> Impressive! One Stugna P takes out 4 muscovite tanksbin 4 minutes




Old photo! Your buddies @F-22Raptor @Vergennes have been showing that video for more than a month. Now how about this? 👇



Spoiler: Second Phase of the Special Military Operation is wiping out Ukrainian forces in their trenches





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519667251229700096




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519657800535842816

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Corax said:


> People still don't get it, unless the US is willing to give the Ukrainians F-16s, Abrams, Apaches etc, it won't make a meaningful difference on the ground. The Ukrainians have lost an equal number of troops and armour, but people here seem to be forgetting that, and those numbers hurt the Ukrainians more than the Russians. It's not Americans or Europeans dying by the tens of thousands, but Ukrainians. The US and West can keep on pumping billions into Ukraine.



Also, it is difficult to make an offensive in eastern Ukraine because unless Abram tanks can swim, they can't get across Dnipr which is the largest and widest river in Europe.


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## nang2

Corax said:


> People still don't get it, unless the US is willing to give the Ukrainians F-16s, Abrams, Apaches etc, it won't make a meaningful difference on the ground. The Ukrainians have lost an equal number of troops and armour, but people here seem to be forgetting that, and those numbers hurt the Ukrainians more than the Russians. It's not Americans or Europeans dying by the tens of thousands, but Ukrainians. The US and West can keep on pumping billions into Ukraine.


You don't get it. The purpose pursued by US is to weaken Russia, not to help Ukraine win the war.

The same way US supported Mujahedin to fight Soviets. The same way China supported North Vietnam to fight Americans.

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## Corax

nang2 said:


> You don't get it. The purpose pursued by US is to weaken Russia, not to help Ukraine win the war.



True! In that case, carry on. Russia will be weakened, but at the cost of Ukrainians.

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## F-22Raptor

Corax said:


> People still don't get it, unless the US is willing to give the Ukrainians F-16s, Abrams, Apaches etc, it won't make a meaningful difference on the ground. The Ukrainians have lost an equal number of troops and armour, but people here seem to be forgetting that, and those numbers hurt the Ukrainians more than the Russians. It's not Americans or Europeans dying by the tens of thousands, but Ukrainians. The US and West can keep on pumping billions into Ukraine.




Ukraine has already achieved tank parity with the Russians after the injection of European supplied T-72s. The US is prepared to inject billions in military aid to Ukraine for years if need be. 

The human and military costs for Russia are unsustainable.

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## The SC

The German Bundestag overwhelmingly voted for the supply of heavy weapons to Ukraine


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519606170348138496

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## nang2

Corax said:


> True! In that case, carry on. Russia will be weakened, but at the cost of Ukrainians.


Of course. It is well known from the get-go.


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## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraine has already achieved tank parity with the Russians after the injection of European supplied T-72s. The US is prepared to inject billions in military aid to Ukraine for years if need be.
> 
> The human and military costs for Russia are unsustainable.



Really?! According to who?  the same fake CIA PsychOp news sources that claim the downing of an Il-78 with hundred of Russian paratroopers dead...without any evidence of wreckage?

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## The SC

Al-Arabiya correspondent in Donetsk Raed Al-Agbar: The Russian army is advancing to besiege Slavyansk, liberate the water sources and end the thirst of the Donbass region


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519458990274527235

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519428071232876548

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519722678323658759


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## The SC



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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519724924427980800

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## A.P. Richelieu

Corax said:


> Since when has the USSR or the Russians for that matter ever needed to rely on the "west" for weapons development?! What a stupid argument!


Anyone developing advanced electronics is depending on Western technology. You do not need it for an Arquebus.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519713664600883200
Good grief, Ukraine is going to get a s**t ton of equipment.

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## Corax

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Anyone developing advanced electronics is depending on Western technology. You do not need it for an Arquebus.
> View attachment 838710



Care to explain what "western" electronics and technology is in Kalibr cruise missiles?

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## Meengla

nang2 said:


> You don't get it. The purpose pursued by US is to weaken Russia, not to help Ukraine win the war.
> 
> The same way US supported Mujahedin to fight Soviets. The same way China supported North Vietnam to fight Americans.



Correct.
I don't think 'freedom and democracy' or 'sovereignty' have been much of a factor in Americans' strategic goals. Only when there are no strategic goals left then such lofty ideals would factor. And that's just real politick. That's how the world has always worked for the most part in human history. It is a sad reality. 
Human beings are too barbaric and territorial to this day.

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## ZeEa5KPul

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Anyone developing advanced electronics is depending on Western technology. You do not need it for an Arquebus.
> View attachment 838710


No.


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## jamal18

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Anyone developing advanced electronics is depending on Western technology. You do not need it for an Arquebus.
> View attachment 838710


You mean the only country in the world to field hypersonic missiles?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519579396633468931

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518855509713039360

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519652681484222465

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519496622559932417

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519447275176669186
Speaking about Zelinski:

We give Biden's spoiled child one last chance to stop following NATO orders and put his hand with Putin.

There is a very painful blow coming that will change everything and the West will not be able to protect him from our wrath.

We will not be generous again, for after that we will go to his shelter in Kyiv to speak to him directly.

*@RamzanKiadyrov*

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## jamal18

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519496622559932417
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519447275176669186
> Speaking about Zelinski:
> 
> We give Biden's spoiled child one last chance to stop following NATO orders and put his hand with Putin.
> 
> There is a very painful blow coming that will change everything and the West will not be able to protect him from our wrath.
> 
> We will not be generous again, for after that we will go to his shelter in Kyiv to speak to him directly.
> 
> *@RamzanKiadyrov*


The Russians are planning something big. Their plan A, to intimidate the Kiev regime and get them to accept has failed. Plan B, judging by this comment, might mean a significant increase in violence and a full invasion of Ukraine up to kiev.

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## Viet

nufix said:


> Check the last sentence of my post. I said, i am not too optimistic about not importing energy from Russia by the end of this year without bankrupting the state of having its citizen subjected to energy price inflation. Mind you Germany is already hitting 39% inflation in Gas and Oil prices by March this year. Normally, we would already call it an onset of hyperinflation.


Energy cost is certainly a major factor that pushes inflation I agree. However consider this. If you buy a German car for 50,000 euros then you pay 500 euros to Putin. That is the gas bill. Or 1 percent. That’s not much. Even if the gas bill increases by 100 percent or you pay 1,000 euros that will not stop you from buying the BMW.
About inflation, the war in ukraine is one of factors. Corona is more costly. If you want to buy anything electronics from China then you have a big problem.
Your dealer will tell you, sorry that costs you more and second, you have to wait.


----------



## The SC

Putin warns: "We have a weapon that we will not brag about, but will use."

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## Hassan Al-Somal

jamal18 said:


> The Russians are planning something big. Their plan A, to intimidate the Kiev regime and get them to accept has failed. Plan B, judging by this comment, might mean a significant increase in violence and a full invasion of Ukraine up to kiev.



In a way, the Russians already achieved some of their objectives: 1) Destroy the Ukrainian ability to threaten Russia; 2) protect the people of Donbass from the planned Ukrainian attacks in February. What they haven't achieved is the seizure of the whole southern Ukraine.

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## oberschlesier

Viet said:


> Energy cost is certainly a major factor that pushes inflation I agree. However consider this. If you buy a German car for 50,000 euros then you pay 500 euros to Putin. That is the gas bill. Or 1 percent. That’s not much. Even if the gas bill increases by 100 percent or you pay 1,000 euros that will not stop you from buying the BMW.
> About inflation, the war in ukraine is one of factors. Corona is more costly. If you want to buy anything electronics from China then you have a big problem.
> Your dealer will tell you, sorry that costs you more and second, you have to wait.


Completly agree. Raw recources are not giving much of a value added to a complex product. The Value Added is mostly intelectual( BMW is one thing, look at software! )

Inflation is mostly due to Covid. The gas price in Europe was already getting expensive before the war in a very fishy way. 

The supply chain crisis is showing, that is better to produce electronics in the EU or a country that is closer like e.g. Turkey.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> In a way, the Russians already achieved some of their objectives: 1) Destroy the Ukrainian ability to threaten Russia; 2) protect the people of Donbass from the planned Ukrainian attacks in February. What they haven't achieved is the seizure of the whole southern Ukraine.


In point 1) Then have rather made the Problem bigger in the long run.


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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> In a way, the Russians already achieved some of their objectives: 1) Destroy the Ukrainian ability to threaten Russia; 2) protect the people of Donbass from the planned Ukrainian attacks in February.







The SC said:


> Putin warns: "We have a weapon that we will not brag about, but will use."
> 
> View attachment 838718



LMAO who cares about Putin's nuclear threats,déjà vu again again again


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519745755413630977


----------



## The SC

Heavy Russian TOS-1A flamethrowers bombard the positions of Ukrainian extremists in the Kharkov region.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519438228289462274

Russia has officially completed its part of its first railway bridge to China, ahead of the bridge's expected opening next month.. Work began in 2014 and deteriorating relations with the West have prompted Moscow to turn its sights east. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519560435925757952

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## Hassan Al-Somal

oberschlesier said:


> Completly agree. Raw recources are not giving much of a value added to a complex product. The Value Added is mostly intelectual( BMW is one thing, look at software! )
> 
> Inflation is mostly due to Covid. The gas price in Europe was already getting expensive before the war in a very fishy way.
> 
> The supply chain crisis is showing, that is better to produce electronics in the EU or a country that is closer like e.g. Turkey.
> 
> 
> In point 1) Then have rather made the Problem bigger in the long run.



In 1) the West through NATO has come out of the shadows and shown that this is their war against Russia but they want to carry out the work through the last Ukrainian.


----------



## Wergeland

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Russia isn't going to bomb the parts of Ukraine populated by Russians that it wants to take. What it's going to bomb heavily are the portions of western Ukraine that have a hostile, recalcitrant population that it cannot absorb.
> 
> Ukraine is too large for a European country and needs to be resized.



The right wing poles have pushed anti-russian sentiment too far. They had everything after integration into EU and NATO, but got arrogant lately.

If Russia takes control of most of southern Ukraine, the northern areas wont be handled with the same care. Unfortunately for Poland there will be mass exodus of polish speaking people from Ukraine and it will be a financial burden on a Poland already cut from Gas.

This is a lesson for every country. Dont become areogant because youve recently had economic boom.

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## LeGenD

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Western-provided loitering munitions shot down.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519345294898610176
> 
> 
> You're entitled to your own opinion.
> 
> In this world, there is haqq (righteousness) and baatil (evil). In this war, Russia is on the side of righteousness. At some point, someone needs to confront the empire of the Antichrist. Goodness grief, Russia has a leader like Vladimir Putin and not Boris Yeltsin.
> 
> Do we easily forgot the genocide committed against Iraq, Syria, Libya, Palestine, Afghanistan, Somalia, Yemen, and other places? May Allah (swt) destroy the Western hegemonic empire.



There is a lot of perspective that is missing in your post. Different conflicts broke out for different reasons and it would be important to understand *when *and *why* in each case. It is important to have complete perspective.

Russia on the side of righteousness? You've got to be kidding me.

Soviet conflicts:

China (1924) - border dispute
Japan (1932 - 1941) - border dispute
Poland (1939) - invasion
Finland (1939 - 1940) - invasion
Estonia (1940) - invasion
Latvia (1940) - invasion
Lithuania (1940) - invasion
Romania (1940) - invasion
Vietnam (1946 - 1954) - intervention
Korean War (1950 - 1953) - intervention
Czechoslovakia (1968) - invasion
Ethopia (1974 - 1990) - intervention
Angola (1975 - 1991) - intervention
Afghanistan (1979 - 1989) - invasion

Russian conflicts:

Georgia (1991 - 1993) - intervention
Moldova (1992) - intervention
First Chechen War (1994 - 1996) - preventing independence
Second Chechen War (1999 - 2009) - preventing independence
Georgia (2008) - invasion
Ukraine (2014) - invasion
Syria (2015 - present) - intervention
Central African Republic (2020 - present) - intervention
Ukraine (2022 - present) - invasion

I have not posted every conflict but you get the gist.

Russia behaves like a typical world power and can be very destructive to other countries. WE can all see what is happening in Ukraine.

It is fine to have a look at Russian perspective for general knowledge sake but there is a fine line to draw between observation and endorsing an act of oppression in any way, shape, or form. Some have crossed this line without realizing it and are behaving like Russian propaganda bots in cyberspace. A Muslim should know better.

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## The SC

The tasks of the Russian army using the portable reconnaissance radar "Fara-VR" in urban battles in Mariupol.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519482478360203264


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## oberschlesier

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> In 1) the West through NATO has come out of the shadows and shown that this is their war against Russia but they want to carry out the work through the last Ukrainian.


NATO is not fighting. Serious help with arms started after couple of weeks, when everybody have seen, that Ukraine is serious about it`s defence. 

Anyways why fight a war against Russia ? For sports ? What is interesting there ? Russia is anyways selling their Recources to the West and the access to Russian market was granted before the war. Why fight a war, when you already had everything you wanted?


----------



## jamal18

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> In a way, the Russians already achieved some of their objectives: 1) Destroy the Ukrainian ability to threaten Russia; 2) protect the people of Donbass from the planned Ukrainian attacks in February. What they haven't achieved is the seizure of the whole southern Ukraine.


I believe that they only had two aims.

1. Protect the people of the two 'republics';

2. force the Kiev regime to accept neutrality and de-nazificatio/de-militarisation.

Only the first has been acheived, lack of acheivement of the second aim is resulting in Plan B.

A Polish invasion of western Ukraine, thought to be a threat to Russia, might actually work in its favour. If Poland annexes western Ukraine, land it considers to be historically Polish, it will leave a surviving Ukraine so small and weak that it will pose a threat to no one.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519724684920692736


----------



## _Nabil_

Apollon said:


> I was in egypt just 2 weeks ago and it was obvious that something is going on. Bread prices exploded. When we were in egypt in december i was told to tip.in Euro, since its better for driver, room service and guide. This time it was Impossible for egyptians to get euro or doller changed into egyptian pounds. I had to go into the bank and change it. Guide apologied a thousand times. Many can not afford bread during ramadan anymore. Government raided markets to confiscate euro and doller from the people. Egyptian pound devalued 20% within few weeks.
> 
> 
> Obviously your optimism crashs at the hard reality.
> 
> 
> Thing is, Egypt matters for Europe and USA. We will support them. But Tunisia?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Food crisis inevitable' as Tunisia begins Ramadan
> 
> 
> Basic food shortages most severe Tunisia has ever seen as experts warn of 'explosive' situation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.middleeasteye.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize that Russia has no economy and trade with China is on such small levels that its global effect is zero, right?
> 
> 
> For you again: russias entire economy is 1.4% of world economy.
> 
> 
> Export from Russia to China is 49 billion $.
> 
> Thats smaller than the market value of... Nintendo.
> 
> 
> Imports from China to Russia stand at 54 billion $. Which is also...smaller than market value of Nintendo...
> 
> 
> 
> Just to give some scale to Russias weak economy. Super Mario holds more economic power than Putin.
> 
> 
> 
> @Vergennes @F-22Raptor


All the shortages in Tunisia are previous to this war, until now nothing really changed, the article you posted is a kind of rubbish, bread prices are the same for years now, no 20% uprising like mentioned in that Article.

Egypt, I've heard they changed their compensation system, it's been always a less there, nothing new ....


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## Hassan Al-Somal

oberschlesier said:


> NATO is not fighting. Serious help with arms started after couple of weeks, when everybody have seen, that Ukraine is serious about it`s defence.
> 
> Anyways why fight a war against Russia ? For sports ? What is interesting there ? Russia is anyways selling their Recources to the West and the access to Russian market was granted before the war. Why fight a war, when you already had everything you wanted?




The Western elites won't tell us (the masses) about why they were trying to squeeze the Russians. The root cause of this conflict between the West and Russia is about the preservation of the fiat money. The West wants to make sure that the Petro-Dollar remains the fiat money of the world. And that can only be done when Russia, which is major energy producer, and China, which is a major economic power, are contained. If you really look at the wars against Libya and Iraq and the sanctions against Iran are all based on preserving this Petro-Dollar financial system.

Sadly, the Ukrainians have a leadership that couldn't foresee how they've been setup as a canon fodder for a conflict that shouldn't have them engaged at all. And I would add Sweden should also remain neutral and stay clear from a conflict that doesn't concern them.

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## The SC

The Russian Ministry of Construction: Russia plans to help in the reconstruction of Mariupol, and it will start from next month.

@russiatoday0
·3h

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## oberschlesier

jamal18 said:


> A Polish invasion of western Ukraine, thought to be a threat to Russia, might actually work in its favour. If Poland annexes western Ukraine, land it considers to be historically Polish, it will leave a surviving Ukraine so small and weak that it will pose a threat to no one.



This is the latest Russian propaganda nonsense.

Why Poland would need Western Ukraine with milions of Ukranians and a small polish minory? For Sports ? It`s relatively poor, it would require tons of Investmenets and would generate endless problems. It`s like Poland did not have any other Problems. Anyway the Ukrainians love Poland with the help we have provided.

It is not the 19 Century, you expand through economy, not by taking land. Russia is trying to solve it`s internal problem with expansion, which will lead to even bigger internal Problems.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The Western elites won't tell us (the masses) about why they were trying to squeeze the Russians. The root cause of this conflict between the West and Russia is about the preservation of the fiat money. The West wants to make sure that the Petro-Dollar remains the fiat money of the world. And that can only be done when Russia, which is major energy producer, and China, which is a major economic power, are contained. If you really look at the wars against Libya and Iraq and the sanctions against Iran are all based on preserving this Petro-Dollar financial system.
> 
> Sadly, the Ukrainians have a leadership that couldn't foresee how they've been setup as a canon fodder for a conflict that shouldn't have them engaged at all. And I would add Sweden should also remain neutral and stay clear from a conflict that doesn't concern them.


It`s Russia invading Ukraine, not a conflict between West and Russia, there is no second bottom to this.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519745755413630977


----------



## MajesticPug

Wergeland said:


> The right wing poles have pushed anti-russian sentiment too far. They had everything after integration into EU and NATO, but got arrogant lately.
> 
> If Russia takes control of most of southern Ukraine, the northern areas wont be handled with the same care. Unfortunately for Poland there will be mass exodus of polish speaking people from Ukraine and it will be a financial vurden on a Poland already cut from Gas.
> 
> This is a lesson for every country. Dont become areogant because youve recently had economic boom.



A lot of Eastern European countries got arrogant and over zealous handling relationship with Russia. Poles in particular didn't want to miss any opportunity to wipe America's *** and lead the charge to fight the bear.


----------



## vizier

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519496622559932417
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519447275176669186
> Speaking about Zelinski:
> 
> We give Biden's spoiled child one last chance to stop following NATO orders and put his hand with Putin.
> 
> There is a very painful blow coming that will change everything and the West will not be able to protect him from our wrath.
> 
> We will not be generous again, for after that we will go to his shelter in Kyiv to speak to him directly.
> 
> *@RamzanKiadyrov*


Predator drone wont make much difference if used in attack role it would possibly be detected first by Tor type of systems because although advanced it is a large signature drone. If it carries extended range sdbs that is another issue. Another usage can be sar imaging Ru artillery positions in nearby regions like in Kherson , Melitopol or even Kharkiv depending on the range of the sar imaging sensor and not getting close to target areas to not to be taken down. Eastern Ukr soldiers dont have anything against Ru drones though. They are easy targets for drone atgms. Maybe older decomissioned soviet high alt aa guns like 100mm ks-19 have slight chance of targeting larger slow flying drones if they have a good optical targeting system.


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## jamal18

Poland has announced military execises in eastern Poland.

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## oberschlesier

MajesticPug said:


> A lot of Eastern European countries got arrogant and over zealous handling relationship with Russia. Poles in particular didn't want to miss any opportunity to wipe America's *** and lead the charge to fight the bear.


Nope, it is now more going in the direction of ignoring the bear.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519726473418092547

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519723020323102721


----------



## oberschlesier

jamal18 said:


> Poland has announced military execises in eastern Poland.


In the whole country to be exact.


----------



## Type59

Viet said:


> The West including the US wants to sign a deal with Iran. Russia is the bigger threat. Iran can deliver gas to EU. Also, Venezuela.


Shocking how quick pariah states like Iran are seen as "okay". I doubt Iran will trust US after withdrawing from nuke agreement by Trump.


----------



## nang2

oberschlesier said:


> Nope, it is now more going in the direction of ignoring the bear.


Apparently you missed the post that is right above yours.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519642318390927360


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519679884133642241
We're heading to a nuclear conflict.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519692539615485954


----------



## nang2

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519679884133642241
> We're heading to a nuclear conflict.


Not likely. Later on, when US and Russia need to normalize their relationship, they can always ask Ukraine to cough it up.


----------



## oberschlesier

nang2 said:


> Apparently you missed the post that is right above yours.


It was kinda ridicolous. Not much Polish speaking people in Ukraine and economicaly will be fine. Russia is not so much important for Poland economically, this is not arogance, just facts.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

oberschlesier said:


> It`s Russia invading Ukraine, not a conflict between West and Russia, there is no second bottom to this.



Reality of this conflict is different than what people are led to believe from their mainstream Western sources. If the West is not part of the conflict, why are they all arming and financing the war? They could've remained neutral. Why couldn't the West categorically stated Ukraine wouldn't be permitted to NATO?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519679884133642241
> We're heading to a nuclear conflict.


$600 billion seized in total.. it might for sure start a nuclear war..


----------



## nang2

oberschlesier said:


> It was kinda ridicolous. Not much Polish speaking people in Ukraine and economicaly will be fine. Russia is not so much important for Poland economically, this is not arogance, just facts.


Maybe it is payback time. 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/poland-says-wwii-massacre-by-ukraine-was-a-genocide/









Massacre of Poles ‘celebrated’ in ‘new’ Ukraine


Ukrainian nationalists commemorate massacre of Yanova Dolina On April 24 2014 Ukrainian nationalists, mostly members of the fascist Right Sector and Svoboda party, commemorated the perpetrators of …




justice4poland.com


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519679038738026497


----------



## mmr

Corax said:


> People still don't get it, unless the US is willing to give the Ukrainians F-16s, Abrams, Apaches etc, it won't make a meaningful difference on the ground. The Ukrainians have lost an equal number of troops and armour, but people here seem to be forgetting that, and those numbers hurt the Ukrainians more than the Russians. It's not Americans or Europeans dying by the tens of thousands, but Ukrainians. The US and West can keep on pumping billions into Ukraine.


Lol cry harder

Us and eu have 400 billion dollar of russian assets seize. They will just use those no big deal.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519686449104310272

Reactions: Like Like:
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## mmr

Corax said:


> True! In that case, carry on. Russia will be weakened, but at the cost of Ukrainians.


Putler ask to get fucked and fall in to trap of usa. No one else to blame but him self.


----------



## nang2

mmr said:


> Putler ask to get fucked and fall in to trap of usa. No one else to blame but him self.


You sound like a fisherman who cheers a fish being caught and shows no sympathy towards the bait being consumed.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519636821914927106


----------



## oberschlesier

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Reality of this conflict is different than what people are led to believe from their mainstream Western sources. If the West is not part of the conflict, why are they all arming and financing the war? They could've remained neutral. Why couldn't the West categorically stated Ukraine wouldn't be permitted to NATO?



Sure, the conflict is completly different than what people are led to believe from their mainstream Western sources. The West is de facto more financing Russia, than Ukraine. EU is still buying Oil and Gas from Russia.

Why permit potential entrance of Ukraine to NATO? It was always stated it`s unlikely in the near future. Your definition of neutrality means, being on Russian side and having no interests in Ukraine.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519751773401108487


----------



## nang2

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519636821914927106


I think Ukraine is preserving their best troops inside cities and ordering their reservists in the field to fight a guerrilla war.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519755884754309124


----------



## oberschlesier

nang2 said:


> Maybe it is payback time.
> 
> https://www.timesofisrael.com/poland-says-wwii-massacre-by-ukraine-was-a-genocide/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Massacre of Poles ‘celebrated’ in ‘new’ Ukraine
> 
> 
> Ukrainian nationalists commemorate massacre of Yanova Dolina On April 24 2014 Ukrainian nationalists, mostly members of the fascist Right Sector and Svoboda party, commemorated the perpetrators of …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> justice4poland.com


It was 80 years ago, you cannot build a prosperous future if your are stuck in the past. Reconciliation worked very well with Germany and will work well with Ukraine. It does not work well with Russia, as they never did anything wrong since 1939


----------



## nang2

oberschlesier said:


> It was 80 years ago, you cannot build a prosperous future if your are stuck in the past. It worked very well with Germany and will work well with Ukraine.


The news I just quoted were in 2015. People don't forget easily. Those who forget the history are doomed to repeat it. Who said it? Was it Lenin?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519765328338821126


----------



## oberschlesier

nang2 said:


> The news I just quoted were in 2015. People don't forget easily. Those who forget the history are doomed to repeat it. Who said it? Was it Lenin?


Remebering the past is one thing. Doing "payback" for 80 year old stuff is another. Not very civilised.


----------



## WotTen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519722678323658759



They will be Kalibr-ated soon enough.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## nang2

oberschlesier said:


> Remebering the past is one thing. Doing "payback" for 80 year old stuff is another. Not very civilised.


Tell that to Baltic states.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519556086642229248


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

Germany is definitely back!!!

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## oberschlesier

nang2 said:


> Tell that to Baltic states.


As far as I know, they are not invading anybody and Russians living there have a better quality of life, that are in Moscow. For the soviet times, I really understand them, kommunism was really bad.


----------



## The SC

Kherson region switches to the ruble from May 1st.

According to the authorities, the transition period will take up to four months. At this time, residents will use both rubles and hryvnia, and then completely switch to rubles.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519561149490081793


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519437359091265541


----------



## nang2

oberschlesier said:


> As far as I know, they are not invading anybody and Russians living there have a better quality of life, that are in Moscow. For the soviet times, I really understand them, kommunism was really bad.


They are the ones who jump up and down the most and call for no-fly zone over Ukraine while they barely have an air force. It is their payback time to get back to Russians, only by the hands of other NATO members.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519567548504813568


----------



## WotTen

LeGenD said:


> It is fine to have a look at Russian perspective for general knowledge sake but there is a fine line to draw between observation and endorsing an act of oppression in any way, shape, or form. Some have crossed this line without realizing it and are behaving like Russian propaganda bots in cyberspace. A Muslim should know better.



The support for Russia is not about Russia. It is the desire to see NATO take a punch in the face for a change, even indirectly through Ukraine, for all the death and destruction NATO has caused in the Muslim world.

It doesn't matter who is giving the punch, as long as the punch lands on NATO.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## mmr

nang2 said:


> You sound like a fisherman who cheers a fish being caught and shows no sympathy towards the bait being consumed.


Ppl say putin is a genius specially his fan boys...I say he is the dumbest moron to allow him self to get **** by usa.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519769602535874560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519769606537285633

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519769612254072833

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519769614909067265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519769617782165506

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519769620273582085


----------



## nang2

mmr said:


> Ppl say putin is a genius specially his fan boys...I say he is the dumbest moron to allow him self to get **** by usa.


He has to do what he has to do. It doesn't make him a moron. Only armchair strategists assume they know how to run a country.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## oberschlesier

nang2 said:


> They are the ones who jump up and down the most and call for no-fly zone over Ukraine while they barely have an air force. It is their payback time to get back to Russians, only by the hands of other NATO members.


Calling for a "no-fly zone" is hardly a payback. They can call for whatever they want. As I have stated, they remember bad soviet times and associate it with Russia, so they are worry.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519735219573641218


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519752190356856833


----------



## nang2

oberschlesier said:


> Calling for a "no-fly zone" is hardly a payback. They can call for whatever they want. As I have stated, they remember bad soviet times and associate it with Russia, so they are worry.


It is if NATO implements it as they can sit back and watch Russia and USA beat each other up.


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split




----------



## The SC

New shots from Moscow. Deployment of thermonuclear-armed RS-24 Yars ICBMs.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519737762517237762


----------



## RescueRanger

It was confirmed yesterday that a former British Army commando attached to the Royal Logistics Corp was killed in Ukraine - another British man also believe to be a Royal Marine Commando is missing.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1


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## oberschlesier

WotTen said:


> The support for Russia is not about Russia. It is the desire to see NATO take a punch in the face for a change, even indirectly through Ukraine, for all the death and destruction NATO has caused in the Muslim world.
> 
> It doesn't matter who is giving the punch, as long as the punch lands on NATO.


All the death and destruction NATO has caused in the Muslim world? NATO was only in Afganistan ? It`s a defence pact. Anyways, it`s not like the Russians were not there as well.

I think, it`s more like some want to see the mythical "West" to be punched in the face. For what ? Being successful in many fields ?


----------



## PakFactor

The SC said:


> New shots from Moscow. Deployment of thermonuclear-armed RS-24 Yars ICBMs.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519737762517237762







RescueRanger said:


> It was confirmed yesterday that a former British Army commando attached to the Royal Logistics Corp was killed in Ukraine - another British man also believe to be a Royal Marine Commando is missing.
> 
> View attachment 838782



Can’t say I feel bad — I’ve never liked the Brits


----------



## oberschlesier

nang2 said:


> It is if NATO implements it as they can sit back and watch Russia and USA beat each other up.


NATO is a defence pact and makes decisions collectivelly. It won`t happen. Talking about this as option in the public, making manouvers. Why not?


----------



## WotTen

oberschlesier said:


> All the death and destruction NATO has caused in the Muslim world? NATO was only in Afganistan ? It`s a defence pact. Anyways, it`s not like the Russians were not there as well.
> 
> I think, it`s more like some want to see the mythical "West" to be punched in the face. For what ? Being successful in many fields ?



US and/or NATO have killed millions of Muslims through invasion, sanctions, or supporting murderous dictators in Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Palestine, Yemen, etc., etc. etc.

Russia is no angel either but US/NATO takes the lead by far.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## nang2

oberschlesier said:


> NATO is a defence pact and makes decisions collectivelly. It won`t happen. Talking about this as option in the public, making manouvers. Why not?


Of course. That means they want to have their payback time but they have no capability to make it happen. So they talk, as loudly as they can. Why not? as you said.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## oberschlesier

WotTen said:


> US and/or NATO have killed millions of Muslims through invasion, sanctions, or supporting murderous dictators in Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Palestine, Yemen, etc., etc. etc.
> 
> Russia is no angel either but US/NATO takes the lead by far.


As far as I know, these were mostly civil wars, where both Muslim / not Muslin countries were supporting fractions.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519769622874144771

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519769628360204291

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519769632218959874

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519769635251535873

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519769641693945856

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519769645217198083

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## oberschlesier

nang2 said:


> Of course. That means they want to have their payback time but they have no capability to make it happen. So they talk, as loudly as they can. Why not? as you said.


Exactly, they can say whatever they want and will be heard, but it does not mean it will be implemented.


----------



## JackTheRipper

oberschlesier said:


> All the death and destruction NATO has caused in the Muslim world? NATO was only in Afganistan ? It`s a defence pact. Anyways, it`s not like the Russians were not there as well.
> 
> I think, it`s more like some want to see the mythical "West" to be punched in the face. For what ? Being successful in many fields ?



Libya?
For Warmongering..


----------



## oberschlesier

JackTheRipper said:


> Libya?
> For Warmongering..


It was a civil war.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## nang2

oberschlesier said:


> It was a civil war.


which has US as a part of it.


----------



## JackTheRipper

oberschlesier said:


> It was a civil war.



Lol, NATO killed Gaddafi,
Civil War and Instability brought by NATO.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## WotTen

oberschlesier said:


> As far as I know, these were mostly civil wars, where both Muslim / not Muslin countries were supporting fractions.



Proxy war, often supporting both sides clandestinely, is a tactic used by the West and Russia.

The US sanctions killed half a million children in Iraq alone, and countless more birth defects because of depleted uranium in shells, but it didn't bother the conscience of the Olympic Committee, global sports organizations, Facebook, McDonalds, and other global companies as this Ukraine war has done.

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519769648174096384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519769656428580865

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519769660542971905

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519769663177175040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519769667543486473

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519769670584348672

Reactions: Love Love:
1


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519773808390979584


----------



## oberschlesier

nang2 said:


> which has US as a part of it.


Yeah, Supported one of the sides, other countries supported other fractions.

For the intervation there was a UN Council resolution:








United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Nigeria, Lebanon and Bosnia ( > 50% muslim ) voted for the intervention.


----------



## RescueRanger

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519660064721756160


There are a lot of reports that a large number of defenders trapped in Mariupol are fighters from the International legion.

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519769673063149568


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519770085556166656


----------



## nang2

oberschlesier said:


> Yeah, Supported one of the sides, other countries supported other fractions.
> 
> For the intervation there was a UN Council resolution:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nigeria, Lebanon and Bosnia ( > 50% muslim ) voted for the intervention.


So they have blood on their hands. Claiming it is a civil war doesn't mean it is purely an internal affair.


----------



## Primus

PakFactor said:


> Can’t say I feel bad — I’ve never liked the Brits


Oi

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## Soldier35

Today, Russian air defense worked again over the Belgorod region, one of the local residents became a witness to this






The work of the Russian portable ground reconnaissance radar station "Fara-VR" in combat conditions in Mariupol. The video shows how the operator on the remote control marks the targets and directs the tankers and the crew of the BMP at him, who alternately fire at the targets. The radar is intended for reconnaissance of moving ground targets and transmission of target designation. Detected targets are displayed on the screen, you can even notice when a person just leaned out of the window.






The latest Russian jumping anti-tank mines PTKM-1R appeared in Ukraine. The mine is designed to destroy armored vehicles in the upper hemisphere. When the target approaches 50 m, the seismic sensor of the mine issues a command to shoot the combat element. The combat element moves along a ballistic trajectory, its sensors, thermal and radar, begin to scan the earth's surface. After detecting the target, the warhead is undermined and hits enemy equipment from above in the most vulnerable parts - the roof, turret and hull.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RescueRanger

oberschlesier said:


> As far as I know, these were mostly civil wars, where both Muslim / not Muslin countries were supporting fractions.


Lol get a clue. Afghanistan was a civil war?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519737138048344064

Reactions: Like Like:
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## oberschlesier

nang2 said:


> So they have blood on their hands. Claiming it is a civil war doesn't mean it is purely an internal affair.


All the countries involved have blood on their hands. You see the US everywhere, I say this is much more complicated.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519702403053932549

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519776108329250817

The US is now prepared to arm Ukraine for YEARS to come

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## oberschlesier

RescueRanger said:


> Lol get a clue. Afghanistan was a civil war?


What lol? It`s like a civil war there since 1979. Just there are different external parties involved from time to time.


----------



## nang2

oberschlesier said:


> All the countries involved have blood on their hands. You see the US everywhere, I say this is much more complicated.


Yes, including Poland that supported US-led occupation of Iraq. For victims, it is a very simple matter. Only those who look for excuses prefer to treat it as something complicated.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RescueRanger

oberschlesier said:


> What lol? It`s like a civil war there since 1979. Just there are different external parties involved from time to time.



Educate yourself:









Dangerous Precedent: America’s Illegal War in Afghanistan


Osama bin Laden’s death has lead many to question the efficacy of America’s continued fighting in Afghanistan. Too often dismissed is any meaningful discussion



papers.ssrn.com

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519702403053932549





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519710303877050368

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519712821268856834


----------



## oberschlesier

nang2 said:


> Yes, including Poland that supported US-led occupation of Iraq. For victims, it is a very simple matter. Only those who look for excuses prefer to treat it as something complicated.


There were no victims under Saddams regime ?
Global Politics is complicated.

Anyway this is getting too off topic.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519710977838796801


----------



## nang2

oberschlesier said:


> There were no victims under Saddams regime ?
> Global Politics is complicated.
> 
> Anyway this is getting too off topic.


That is just a lame excuse. Having a bad guy killing innocent people does NOT justify you coming in and killing innocent people, too.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519318213368107008


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519784230796025859

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519309717511802886


----------



## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519309717511802886


Those low flying birds are easy prey. As soon as improved weapons get into Ukraine expect a lot of Russian aircraft to drop like flies.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## oberschlesier

nang2 said:


> That is just a lame excuse. Having a bad guy killing innocent people does NOT justify you coming in and killing innocent people, too.


This is exactly the narration Russia was using as justification for this war "bad guy killing innocent people". Yes, this never justifies war.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519773027315109892


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519790997538058240


----------



## gambit

WotTen said:


> The support for Russia is not about Russia. It is the desire to see NATO take a punch in the face for a change, even indirectly through Ukraine, for all the death and destruction NATO has caused in the Muslim world.
> 
> *It doesn't matter who is giving the punch, as long as the punch lands on NATO.*


But in the end, NATO will get stronger, Russia weaker, and the Muslim world remains the same.


----------



## The SC

Situation - Slavyansk region:

- Russian forces advanced west of Izium, captured Zavody and entered the outskirts of Velyka Komyshuvakha.
- Russian forces captured Zarichne and advanced south towards Yampil







@SunaUnique

Reactions: Like Like:
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## PakFactor

RescueRanger said:


> There are a lot of reports that a large number of defenders trapped in Mariupol are fighters from the International legion.



There’s reports stating some French military officers are holed up there



RescueRanger said:


> Lol get a clue. Afghanistan was a civil war?



It’s time like they forget history or try to do a revision of it —

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519779103825530881


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519747420464496640


----------



## WotTen

gambit said:


> But in the end, NATO will get stronger, Russia weaker, and the Muslim world remains the same.



The Muslim world is weak, divided, and irrelevant. That is true, and it will not change regardless of who 'wins' this war in Ukraine.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519778479822172160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519773279510089728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519772692357939201

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519772399012433920


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519763655608479746
😂😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## BHAN85

nang2 said:


> He has to do what he has to do. It doesn't make him a moron. Only armchair strategists assume they know how to run a country.



A war next to your border is a objective failure, even if you win.

It's not only Putin fault, it's whole Kremlin fault.

Wars next to USA borders: zero.

So we can conclude than the people who rule USA is smarter than the people who rule Russia. That's all.

Russia elite is not brilliant, USA elite is.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Exchange Rates UK News
Euro / Dollar Exchange Rate Collapses​




James Elliot
28 Apr 2022

The Euro faces a number of significant problems, with the latest Gazprom news only the latest in a long line of negative drivers.

Euro Collapses​
EURUSD has been supported in recent weeks by a technical trendline running through the 2016 low and the 2020 lows – it led to the bounce in March and another last week but finally broke this week. Not even the 2020 lows at 1.063 provided any support on Wednesday’s collapse and EURUSD just traded below 1.05 on Thursday for the first time since April 2017. More and more traders and analysts are now talking of targets at parity.

“The FX options market assigns a 35% probability to EUR/USD trading 1.00 at any time before year-end. This is up from 25% earlier this week and just 15% a couple of weeks ago,” observed ING on Thursday.

The Euro has been facing a number of challenges, but the final straw this week comes from Russia’s Gazprom cutting off gas supplies to Poland and Bulgaria after the countries refused to pay in Roubles. It has threatened to do the same to other countries, and gas prices have soared higher from already elevated prices. Europe’s energy crisis is deepening.

Such is the need for Russian gas supplies, it looks like suppliers will meet Russian demands and pay in Rubles, although the European Commision has not given the green light for this.

*“Ten European companies have already opened the accounts at Gazprombank needed to meet Russia's payment demands, according to Bloomberg, and four European buyers have already paid for gas in roubles.*

Sources told Reuters many companies were waiting for clearer guidance from the European Commission before opening accounts at Gazprombank, but that time was running out,” reported Reuters.

This particular problem may therefore have a fairly easy solution, but paying in Rubles would show the world that Russia is winning the war of sanctions.

Unfortunately for the Euro, the energy crisis is only one of the negative drivers pushing down prices. The ECB is in a bind as inflation is starting to weigh on economic activity but with the economy in such a fragile state they can’t make any aggressive policy changes to combat it. There has been some talk of a rate hike in Q3, and as early as July, but the timetable is non-specific. Even if there was a rate hike in July, the ECB will lag the Fed significantly and there is no option of an early, aggressive assault on inflation like the Fed are planning. This means inflation could drag on much longer in Europe and may get out of the ECB’s control (if it’s not already). This is not a healthy environment for the economy and the Euro looks set to continues its downtrend.

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## The SC

After the approval of the Senate....the US House of Representatives formally approves the Ukrainian Defense Act.. with (220-205 votes) to strengthen democracy and defense in Ukraine.

The bill would allow the US president to provide military, economic and humanitarian assistance to Ukraine without any financial or quantitative restrictions and bypassing lengthy bureaucratic procedures..

https://www.defensenews.com/congres...les-in-loaning-us-military-equipment-to-kyiv/


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

BHAN85 said:


> A war next to your border is a objective failure, even if you win.
> 
> It's not only Putin fault, it's whole Kremlin fault.
> 
> Wars next to USA borders: zero.
> 
> So we can conclude than the people who rule USA is smarter than the people who rule Russia. That's all.
> 
> Russia elite is not brilliant, USA elite is.



A person who never catches flu will have immune system so weak they easily die. War makes people stronger. Human evolution prior to 1950 was primarily driven by war. After 1950 because of no war people got much weaker, dumber, less healthy, less fit, lower birth rate.

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## MajesticPug

oberschlesier said:


> Nope, it is now more going in the direction of ignoring the bear.


The proper way is to ignore the pressure to poke the bear. Regardless of the history, Russia is Poland's neighbor and a militarily-strong neighbor. No one can remove your neighbor. Depending on and wiping a distant power's *** is not going to reinforce Poland's peace and it could even be seen as threatening your neighbor's existence.

Peace to Poland.

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## The SC

Russia warns West: Don't test our patience​https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-warns-west-dont-test-our-patience-2022-04-28/


----------



## BHAN85

Tai Hai Chen said:


> A person who never catches flu will have immune system so weak they easily die. War makes people stronger. Human evolution prior to 1950 was primarily driven by war. After 1950 because of no war people got much weaker, dumber, less healthy, less fit, lower birth rate.



If you are poor in USA you will live worst than in a war zone.

USA is hard for lazy stupid people, and is paradise for rich/smart/hardworking people.

USA is maybe the country with more meritocracy in the world.

There is no idiocracy in USA. Idiots in usa remain poors and powerless.

Better see in a mirror if Chinese Communist party power is giving through merits or through descendency from dad to sons. The same in Russia, there is meritocracy in Russia? can a normal smart person become rich? can a Russia member of elite become poor if they make wrong decisions? Modern Russia is feudalism.

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## MajesticPug

The SC said:


> After the approval of the Senate....the US House of Representatives formally approves the Ukrainian Defense Act.. with (220-205 votes) to strengthen democracy and defense in Ukraine.
> 
> The bill would allow the US president to provide military, economic and humanitarian assistance to Ukraine without any financial or quantitative restrictions and bypassing lengthy bureaucratic procedures..
> 
> https://www.defensenews.com/congres...les-in-loaning-us-military-equipment-to-kyiv/



The US is driving itself into demise. Will the Biden admin print more money in this hyper-inflation economy? The result...?

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## jamal18

Apparently the Israeli authorities have asked their citizens to leave Transnistria.

Anybody with any info on what is happening there?

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## CAPRICORN-88

This is Lara Logan, a South African female war correspondent in the United States.

She used to host the Sixty Minutes show and CBS's evening news,

*This time in an interview with Fox TV, she told the truth of the Russian-Ukrainian war. 

The other hostess in green hearing from Lara was at a loss, *and the interview was recorded live and was picked up by the Chinese and was reproduced with Chinese subtitles.

*However the interview was immediately removed from the Fox News channel after it was aired live ! *

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Exchange Rates UK News
> Euro / Dollar Exchange Rate Collapses​
> 
> 
> 
> James Elliot
> 28 Apr 2022
> 
> The Euro faces a number of significant problems, with the latest Gazprom news only the latest in a long line of negative drivers.
> 
> Euro Collapses​
> EURUSD has been supported in recent weeks by a technical trendline running through the 2016 low and the 2020 lows – it led to the bounce in March and another last week but finally broke this week. Not even the 2020 lows at 1.063 provided any support on Wednesday’s collapse and EURUSD just traded below 1.05 on Thursday for the first time since April 2017. More and more traders and analysts are now talking of targets at parity.
> 
> “The FX options market assigns a 35% probability to EUR/USD trading 1.00 at any time before year-end. This is up from 25% earlier this week and just 15% a couple of weeks ago,” observed ING on Thursday.
> 
> The Euro has been facing a number of challenges, but the final straw this week comes from Russia’s Gazprom cutting off gas supplies to Poland and Bulgaria after the countries refused to pay in Roubles. It has threatened to do the same to other countries, and gas prices have soared higher from already elevated prices. Europe’s energy crisis is deepening.
> 
> Such is the need for Russian gas supplies, it looks like suppliers will meet Russian demands and pay in Rubles, although the European Commision has not given the green light for this.
> 
> *“Ten European companies have already opened the accounts at Gazprombank needed to meet Russia's payment demands, according to Bloomberg, and four European buyers have already paid for gas in roubles.*
> 
> Sources told Reuters many companies were waiting for clearer guidance from the European Commission before opening accounts at Gazprombank, but that time was running out,” reported Reuters.
> 
> This particular problem may therefore have a fairly easy solution, but paying in Rubles would show the world that Russia is winning the war of sanctions.
> 
> Unfortunately for the Euro, the energy crisis is only one of the negative drivers pushing down prices. The ECB is in a bind as inflation is starting to weigh on economic activity but with the economy in such a fragile state they can’t make any aggressive policy changes to combat it. There has been some talk of a rate hike in Q3, and as early as July, but the timetable is non-specific. Even if there was a rate hike in July, the ECB will lag the Fed significantly and there is no option of an early, aggressive assault on inflation like the Fed are planning. This means inflation could drag on much longer in Europe and may get out of the ECB’s control (if it’s not already). This is not a healthy environment for the economy and the Euro looks set to continues its downtrend.


The conditions were good. Russia economically opening up to Europe and building giant gas projects there. Germany, Europe and even the US were investing in Russia with strong resources, food was available, and energy prices were good..

The only problem is that NATO continued to expand without a real reason. We all saw the Russians and their forces have neither the desire nor the strength to attack Europe conventionally..

The expansion of NATO is not justified after the end of the Soviet Union. The attempt to confine a nuclear Russia to a corner is meaningless unless its aim is the detonation of an unnecessary war..

The Minsk Agreement was positive for everyone and gave autonomy under the state of Ukraine to the Donbass while giving Russian nationalism and the Russian language importance, which gives the Russians room to breathe and say that they are defending the Russian-speaking and achieved something through negotiation and pressure. At the same time, Ukraine maintained its unity and did not threaten Russia by joining NATO.

Why push Ukraine to NATO and what is the importance of Ukraine to NATO in light of the state of world peace and why the Minsk agreement has been obstructed for many years..

The US has the answer.. but not only the US..

The UK has the answer too, because as we said; there was a nice amount of investment and partnership between Russia and the EU, after the Brexit has weakened a bit the EU, there was some initiatives from the EU and Russia to extend the partnership to even a proposal of the integration of Russia into the EU.. Then came the case of skripal (in the poisoning affair) where the UK accused Putin, and the it accused Putin again in the case of Navalny (another poisoning attempt).. all this to create dirt on Putin government.. let's not forget since Putin took over he was the most Russian pro- European president; he was ready to build up with the EU.. and the loser in all this was the UK, especially after it left the EU.. That's apparently why Mr. Jonshon is keeping on flaming the situation, when EU leaders still looking for a peaceful getaway, the UK is keeping the escalation because any strong economic proximity between Russia and the EU will be a geopolitical threat to the UK and decrease its value and actions at a worldwide level..

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## beast89

RescueRanger said:


> There are a lot of reports that a large number of defenders trapped in Mariupol are fighters from the International legion.


International nazis you mean

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## RescueRanger

beast89 said:


> International nazis you mean


Well they wanted a war - looks like they finally got one. Russia has heavily invested manpower and equipment in Mariupol to create what it calls the “cauldron”.



The SC said:


> After the approval of the Senate....the US House of Representatives formally approves the Ukrainian Defense Act.. with (220-205 votes) to strengthen democracy and defense in Ukraine.
> 
> The bill would allow the US president to provide military, economic and humanitarian assistance to Ukraine without any financial or quantitative restrictions and bypassing lengthy bureaucratic procedures..
> 
> https://www.defensenews.com/congres...les-in-loaning-us-military-equipment-to-kyiv/


Ukraine getting the Israeli treatment.



CAPRICORN-88 said:


> This is Lara Logan, a South African female war correspondent in the United States.
> 
> She used to host the Sixty Minutes show and CBS's evening news,
> 
> *This time in an interview with Fox TV, she told the truth of the Russian-Ukrainian war.
> 
> The other hostess in green hearing from Lara was at a loss, *and the interview was recorded live and was picked up by the Chinese and was reproduced with Chinese subtitles.
> 
> *However the interview was immediately removed from the Fox News channel after it was aired live ! *


Thank you for sharing this - yes isn’t it interesting that this interview was taken down so far you would think it was a state secret 🤫😂

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## CAPRICORN-88

The SC said:


> The conditions were good. Russia economically opening up to Europe and building giant gas projects there. Germany, Europe and even the US were investing in Russia with strong resources, food was available, and energy prices were good..
> 
> The only problem is that NATO continued to expand without a real reason. We all saw the Russians and their forces have neither the desire nor the strength to attack Europe conventionally..
> 
> The expansion of NATO is not justified after the end of the Soviet Union. The attempt to confine a nuclear Russia to a corner is meaningless unless its aim is the detonation of an unnecessary war..
> 
> The Minsk Agreement was positive for everyone and gave autonomy under the state of Ukraine to the Donbass while giving Russian nationalism and the Russian language importance, which gives the Russians room to breathe and say that they are defending the Russian-speaking and achieved something through negotiation and pressure. At the same time, Ukraine maintained its unity and did not threaten Russia by joining NATO.
> 
> Why push Ukraine to NATO and what is the importance of Ukraine to NATO in light of the state of world peace and why the Minsk agreement has been obstructed for many years..
> 
> The US has the answer.. but not only the US..
> 
> The UK has the answer too, because as we said; there was a nice amount of investment and partnership between Russia and the EU, after the Brexit has weakened a bit the EU, so there was some initiative from the EU and Russia to extend the partnership to even the proposal of integration of Russia to the EU.. Then came the case of skripal (in the poisoning affair) and the UK accused Putin again in the case of Navalny (another poisoning attempt).. all this to create dirt on Putin government.. let's not forget since Putin took over he was the most Russian pro- European president; he was ready to build up with EU.. and the loser in all this was the UK, especially after it left the EU.. That's apparently why Mr. Jonshon is keeping on flaming the situation, when EU leaders still looking for a peaceful getaway, the UK is keeping the escalation because any strong economic proximity between Russia and the EU will be a geopolitical threat for the UK and decrease its value and actions at a worldwide level..


Gasprom is making a huge profit nowadays due to higher prices. 

Russia has a record breaking current account surplus, a budget surplus, etc.

Don't look as if Russia is collapsing to me.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519659645056475141


----------



## PakFactor

RescueRanger said:


> Well they wanted a war - looks like they finally got one. Russia has heavily invested manpower and equipment in Mariupol to create what it calls the “cauldron”.
> 
> 
> Ukraine getting the Israeli treatment.
> 
> 
> Thank you for sharing this - yes isn’t it interesting that this interview was taken down so far you would think it was a state secret 🤫😂



Question what’s your feeling down the road this’ll create unrest in bordering countries around Ukraine?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519730348980150273

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519730836895059969

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519769736225202177

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519770349814140930


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519653669792276481


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

And with the Ruble rising against the Euro, Russia is now dictating the price of Oil and Gas.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> And with the Ruble rising against the Euro, Russia is now dictating the price of Oil and Gas.



Ruble is backed by gold. Gold is the most valuable money in the world. Russia has high gold production.









List of countries by gold production - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## RescueRanger

PakFactor said:


> Question what’s your feeling down the road this’ll create unrest in bordering countries around Ukraine?


My two cents - forget everything else and look at what is happening between Greece and Turkiye. 

We will see many such micro conflicts develop into potential flash points or contentions - Transnistria is one such concern and remember that Moldova is very important for NATO’s objectives in Eastern Europe.

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## RescueRanger

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519653669792276481


Those are some very impressive trenches by the Ukrainian forces.

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## PakFactor

RescueRanger said:


> My two cents - forget everything else and look at what is happening between Greece and Turkiye.
> 
> We will see many such micro conflicts develop into potential flash points or contentions - Transnistria is one such concern and remember that Moldova is very important for NATO’s objectives in Eastern Europe.



Very true bhai.

The Moldova, I feel could be a trigger to something bigger in Europe and wider region. Greece-Turkey could settle score within this context - however, both there NATOship is preventing hitting the launch button.

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## RescueRanger

PakFactor said:


> Very true bhai.
> 
> The Moldova, I feel could be a trigger to something bigger in Europe and wider region. Greece-Turkey could settle score within this context - however, both there NATOship is preventing hitting the launch button.


Yes good analysis 👍


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## PakFactor

@RescueRanger
Also on the economic side that didn’t make much headline 81 ton of gold was recently sent from Switzerland to US, big guys are hedging.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

PakFactor said:


> Very true bhai.
> 
> The Moldova, I feel could be a trigger to something bigger in Europe and wider region. Greece-Turkey could settle score within this context - however, both there NATOship is preventing hitting the launch button.



Two NATO countries can duke it out. Of course, an attack on a NATO country is technically an attack on all NATO countries, but it does not compel an action as a response. Just as UN does not prevent war, NATO also cannot prevent war.


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## RescueRanger

@PakFactor we were just discussing this and look:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519686188591898630

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## PakFactor

RescueRanger said:


> @PakFactor we were just discussing this and look:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519686188591898630



That was quick, see link below. This is crazy they want to solve this problem before Russians get there?



https://english.pravda.ru/amp/news/world/151533-romania/

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## RescueRanger

PakFactor said:


> That was quick, see link below. This is crazy
> 
> 
> 
> https://english.pravda.ru/amp/news/world/151533-romania/


The entire region is going to be in trouble if this happens.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519816334938357760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519817077258919936

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519791769986248708


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## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## Foinikas

PakFactor said:


> however, we have incompetency for example in Pak Armed Forces we are late to adopting MRAPs, Drones, etc., we wait for example India to make an acquisition before we do ours it's stupidity has no bounds (don't get me wrong I have members of my family in Pak Armed Forces). Just look at how the West adopted drones into portable kill switch drones, you don't see the likes of Pakistan or anyone else taking technology and adopting it usefully.


Yeah exactly like us. Turkey has become a major UAV and UCAV producer and in the year 2022 we only have 2 Heron UAVs leased from Israel and a few Pegasus UAVs. 

Why haven't we bought Harpy,Harop,Harpy NG,Green Dragon from Israel or even Chinese Wing Loong...I have no idea. 

I know how you feel. It's like they're waiting until the enemy becomes too strong and then they suddenly wonder "ooh how come India buy this,oooh why don't we have something like this?". 

Then you have all the people who think we live 50 years in the past saying "Don't worry,we can easily defeat them. We always defeat them...they are not brave,we are braver,we have a smaller army but smarter people. We'll do this and that and they will lose". 

And others will clap and say "oh yeah we are the best haha". Meanwhile the other country is arming like crazy and for example Greece still doesn't have a modern IFV,Pakistan is still dragging on Al Khalid II,we still don't have enough MRAPs and UAVs,you still don't have enough long range AA systems,we both need more ships,we both need to replace a lot of tanks.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519745571959222272
American volunteers


----------



## The SC




----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519786322466156549

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519830330076807174

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519830330076807174


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519842249672167424


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519830330076807174


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519841841583210498

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519719344468631555


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519831101358940164


----------



## The SC

Banners in the Netherlands call on the government to rely on Saudi oil as an alternative to Russian oil.







@US_World1


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519722656509136896

Briefing of the Russian Ministry of Defense (28.04.2022)

_*◽️*_The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue a special military operation in Ukraine.

_*💥*_ High-precision air-based missiles of the Russian Aerospace Forces hit 38 military facilities in Ukraine. Three command posts, 22 strongholds of the formations of Ukrainian nationalists, seven areas of concentration of manpower and military equipment, as well as six depots of rocket and artillery weapons, ammunition and fuel were destroyed in the areas of the settlements of Aleksandrovka, Gusarovka, Dolgenkoe and Barvenkovo.

_*💥*_ Operational-tactical and army aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces hit 76 military facilities of Ukraine. Among them: two depots of rocket and artillery weapons in the settlements of Pokrovskoe and Gorohovskoe, a command post, as well as 73 areas of concentration of manpower and Ukrainian military equipment,
As a result of the strikes, more than 320 personnel and 35 armored vehicles and vehicles were destroyed.

_*💥*_ During the day, the missile forces destroyed the Ukrainian launcher of the Tochka-U tactical missile system, and defeated two areas of concentration of manpower and military equipment.

_*💥*_ Russian air defense systems destroyed seven Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles over the settlements of Bukino, Topolskoye, Russkiye Tishki in the Kharkiv region, Redkodub and Maryevka in the Donetsk People's Republic, Naugolnoye in the Luhansk People's Republic and Chernobaevka in the Kherson region. Also during the day, three Ukrainian Tochka-U ballistic missiles were shot down in the areas of the settlements of Petropillia and Malaya Kamyshevakh.


****/levigodman/1146


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519663095928352768
hehe

Reactions: Haha Haha:
3


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519691554193125379


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519786322466156549

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519796850974466050


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519805197521932288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519769736225202177

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519766223575261187

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519751828166041601

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519678228608258048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519792001318797313

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519663445276303360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519637843592851457

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519574611402313728

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519821976088551427

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519567080252715008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519558840387530754

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519382717124775936
Moscow:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519797587892604928

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519792514001256454

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519362252113121282

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519336916788854784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519207068376440832
With all this in mind..it really not clear who has sanctioned whom and weakened the other side..!?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519590404261302272


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519034167811612672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519184831627898881

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Bengal71

RescueRanger said:


> The entire region is going to be in trouble if this happens.



Things are happening fast. If it gets out of control, the whole of Europe could be embroiled in a war and the US will be responsible for it. Good for the rest of the world, the white people have been killing non-whites in their imperialist wars for too long. I hope they fight each other.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519794844562075648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519850831411130369

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519807305411272704

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519820154808332288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519800761491681280


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519730381737525248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519712841644879873

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519782333087424512


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519839018187476997

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519839019365982208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519839020464934912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519839021572186119

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519839022679564288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519839023849746432

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519839025024147459

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519839026307604481

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519839027444305920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519839028568375296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519839029713383426

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519839030946537472

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## Flight of falcon

All the indications are that Russians have successfully managed to encircle huge number of Ukrainian forces and plan to rain hell on them. Looks like Zalinski and his generals hiding in the bunkers will address another parliament of some country ....

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## DF41

DF41 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519621346161876992
> 
> The depth of analysis by a Chinese girl in English using Romance of 3 Kingdoms.
> English not her first language either.
> 
> More profound then the idiots of Murica UK NATO shit heads.



Allow me to expand on that book quoted at length by that cute little girl as to the war financed and created by USA using Ukraine and NATO as proxies against Russia .; That as a precursor to USA finding more proxies and missile fodder to fight China.

A book known and read and loved by Chinese on both sides of Taiwan Straits, including that little girl.
That book also known and read and loved by Koreans and Japanese as well as Chinese all over the world.









Romance of the Three Kingdoms - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





Romance of 3 Kingdoms is Illiad and War & Peace combined. With complexity more poignant and complex with intrigues than Machialvelli Prince.
And you can download free.













Nice summary of Liu Bei in 3 Kingdoms without him saying a single word. 
Read the comments in Youtube

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519871138976968704

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519871748388315136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519873271612772353

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519876743397523459


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## F-22Raptor

Flight of falcon said:


> All the indications are that Russians have successfully managed to encircle huge number of Ukrainian forces and plan to rain hell on them. Looks like Zalinski and his generals hiding in the bunkers will address another parliament of some country ....



Russia is nowhere close to encircling the Ukrainians

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## DF41

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Russia isn't going to bomb the parts of Ukraine populated by Russians that it wants to take. What it's going to bomb heavily are the portions of western Ukraine that have a hostile, recalcitrant population that it cannot absorb.
> 
> Ukraine is too large for a European country and needs to be resized.


USA is too big. 
Needed to be re sized into 50 different countries 

The whole world will be a lot more safe that way.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519877718271488001


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## Flight of falcon

What a bunch of morons arming Neo Nazis And training them to spread Nazism with Western weapons .

This will come back to haunt Western freedom lovers .









Mounting evidence Canada trained Ukrainian extremists, gov't needs to be held to account: experts


Continued evidence that the Canadian Armed Forces have trained extremists in Ukrainian military should raise tough questions for government, experts say.




www.ctvnews.ca

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## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia is nowhere close to encircling the Ukrainians


Something is going on. The new commander Dvornikov makes no intention to encircle the Ukrainian army on the southern front. Putin seems to follow another plan. Dvornikov seems to copy the German tactic at the battle of Verdun. Amassing troops at one place, little to slow movements forwards, using long range artillery. The goal is killing as much as Ukraine as possible, by keeping our casualty as low as possible. If they can kill 2 Ukrainians by 1 russian casually then it’s a great success.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519724368707964929

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## Viet

Ukraine army urgently needs long range artillery and tanks.


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## F-22Raptor

Viet said:


> Something is going on. The new commander Dvornikov makes no intention to encircle the Ukrainian army on the southern front. Putin seems to follow another plan. Dvornikov seems to copy the German tactic at the battle of Verdun. Amassing troops at one place, little to slow movements forwards, using long range artillery. The goal is killing as much as Ukraine as possible, by keeping our casualty as low as possible. If they can kill 2 Ukrainians by 1 russian casually then it’s a great success.



The problem for Russia is they don’t have the manpower to hold territory. Their only gaining minimal territory due to massed artillery and Ukraines new M777s haven’t come online yet in the east.

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## CAPRICORN-88



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## Viet

Type59 said:


> Shocking how quick pariah states like Iran are seen as "okay". I doubt Iran will trust US after withdrawing from nuke agreement by Trump.


Nothing is static in life my friend, if you are smart you go with the wind. Although I think Iran is a hard sell. Too many religious fanaticism in their politics. Venezuela is more receptive. Numerous reports the US seeks a deal.


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## DF41

RescueRanger said:


> It was confirmed yesterday that a former British Army commando attached to the Royal Logistics Corp was killed in Ukraine - another British man also believe to be a Royal Marine Commando is missing.
> 
> View attachment 838782



Brits play stupid games thinking they heros
Brits win stupid prizes showing they stupid

Same same for those of other countries in Ukraine mislead to being cannon missile fodder for Great USA and NATO

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## kingQamaR

Flight of falcon said:


> What a bunch of morons arming Neo Nazis And training them to spread Nazism with Western weapons .
> 
> This will come back to haunt Western freedom lovers .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mounting evidence Canada trained Ukrainian extremists, gov't needs to be held to account: experts
> 
> 
> Continued evidence that the Canadian Armed Forces have trained extremists in Ukrainian military should raise tough questions for government, experts say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ctvnews.ca



don't think the similarities between Putin's actions in Ukraine today and H!t*ler's early on in WWII are lost on anyone in the world. The Russian people need to act sooner rather than later before one man tarnishes their country for generations to come


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## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> The problem for Russia is they don’t have the manpower to hold territory. Their only gaining minimal territory due to massed artillery and Ukraines new M777s haven’t come online yet in the east.


The faster Ukraine gets artillery the better. Putin lacks troops. To encircle the Ukrainians he needs 3:1 minimum. Assuming Ukraine has 50,000 men at the Donbas front, then Dvornikov needs 150,000 men. Mariupol still keeps large troop concentration of Russian army busy. Putin seeks to enlist 55y to 65y old men. Rediculous.


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## DF41



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## kingQamaR

don't think the Russain army ever had a reputation for brilliant tactical decision-making or flawless operations. What it had was vast numbers, which was usually good enough in the end.

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## Viet

kingQamaR said:


> don't think the Russain army ever had a reputation for brilliant tactical decision-making or flawless operations. What it had was vast numbers, which was usually good enough in the end.


Russia is not USSR.
Russia is much smaller in size, less population, zero ally, small economy, little manufacturing accept military complex, more propaganda, more corrupt. It’s leadership is one man rule vulnerable to disaster. Russia can’t sustain a long war of attrition.


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## BHAN85

If Russia launch one hundred missiles over Polish military bases, do you think that will trigger WWIII?


I'm tired of see Russia statemen like Lavrov repeating American bullsh!t. I dont understand how someone can even imagine that USA will trigger WWIII to defend the Poles :lol: or anyone else than themselves. Polish regime has a record of casus belli against Russia, sending weapons without stop...



defence.pk


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## kingQamaR

Viet said:


> Russia is not USSR.
> Russia is much smaller in size, less population, zero ally, small economy, little manufacturing accept military complex, more propaganda, more corrupt. It’s leadership is one man rule vulnerable to disaster. Russia can’t sustain a long war of attrition.



Ukrainian Modern weapons can kill those vast numbers of soldiers and make that advantage disappear


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## DF41

RescueRanger said:


> Those are some very impressive trenches by the Ukrainian forces.


Incorrect usage of grammar.



Those were some very impressive trenches by Ukrainian forces

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## RescueRanger

DF41 said:


> Incorrect usage of grammar.
> 
> 
> 
> Those were some very impressive trenches by Ukrainian forces


Video doesn’t show the aftermath or effectiveness of the strike only puffs of smoke. As far as I’m concerned those trenches still have defenders inside them.


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## DF41

RescueRanger said:


> Video doesn’t show the aftermath or effectiveness of the strike only puffs of smoke. As far as I’m concerned those trenches still have defenders inside them.


🤔

You got a point.
But I seen so many of Nazis sprawled outside those trenches as result of Russian cleansings.

One series of trenches look about the same to me.
And you might well be right as perhaps those trenches not worked over into past tense.

But I think that be very very soon , if not already done


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519686560781942785

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519879610917429254


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519772701900124166


Viet said:


> Russia is not USSR.
> Russia is much smaller in size, less population, zero ally, small economy, little manufacturing accept military complex, more propaganda, more corrupt. It’s leadership is one man rule vulnerable to disaster. Russia can’t sustain a long war of attrition.

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## kingQamaR

Lol


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## Apollon

mmr said:


> Putler ask to get fucked and fall in to trap of usa. No one else to blame but him self.



Dont call him Putler. Hitler had at least military sucess. Pussolini fits better



WotTen said:


> The support for Russia is not about Russia. It is the desire to see NATO take a punch in the face for a change, even indirectly through Ukraine, for all the death and destruction NATO has caused in the Muslim world.
> 
> It doesn't matter who is giving the punch, as long as the punch lands on NATO.



Its do funny to read something like this...while at same time russia got its teeth punched out... before NATO even arrived at the scene.

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## Apollon

JackTheRipper said:


> Lol, NATO killed Gaddafi,
> Civil War and Instability brought by NATO.


How long did you expect could gaddafi opress the various tribes?


Beside that, NATO was not involved in Libya

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## PakFactor

kingQamaR said:


> don't think the Russain army ever had a reputation for brilliant tactical decision-making or flawless operations. What it had was vast numbers, which was usually good enough in the end.



Russian war doctrine relies on the law of large numbers. Never were they technologically advanced since WWI to present — so those talking about Russian tech this and that forget that Russia was modeled differently they knew from beginning they can’t match the quality and capability of Western nations. 

What went wrong initially is they tried to conduct war NATO style with limited numbers and limited tech. Problems were bound to arise when you don’t have the tech and order of battle planning to play that style. 

However if this drags on longer then you’ll see Russia roll into Ukraine how they should’ve done from the beginning, unless a settlement is made.

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## Apollon

RescueRanger said:


> Lol get a clue. Afghanistan was a civil war?



Dont house terrorists. Afghanistan was asked to hand over bin laden. It did chose its fate


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## Ali_Baba

Russian propaganda epic fail …

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## RescueRanger

Apollon said:


> Dont house terrorists. Afghanistan was asked to hand over bin laden. It did chose its fate


Do you even know the history of Bin Laden? Did you bother to read the paper?



https://www.sigar.mil/pdf/lessonslearned/SIGAR-21-46-LL.pdf



Are you using the wholesale slaughter of civilians in Afghanistan as somehow justified given the means used to achieve the ends? And what did the US achieve in Afghanistan? Zilch! Nada! Zero! Squat!

In Early December 2001, the USAF dropped a 15,000 bomb off the back of a C130 in Tora Bora which shook the mountains for miles after impact. In April of 2017, the US went one step further and dropped a 21000lbs MOAB on an ISIS tunnel complex.

Based on available statistics between 2006 and 2019 the allied forces dropped *47,081 bombs in Afghanistan. Let that sink in!*









The U.S. failed in Afghanistan by trying to moralize with bullets and bombs


To prosper after the legacy of imperialism and colonization, Afghanistan needs partnerships and business investment, not bullets and bombs.




theconversation.com













'Major American Failure.’ A Political Scientist on Why the U.S. Lost in Afghanistan


"There's no other way to characterize the overall 20-year war as anything other than a failure."




time.com





Now I could go on for hours about Afghanistan given the fact I have actually been to the country, live next to it and been through the aftermath of the 80's, 90's and both during the GWOT and after evacuation. So if you do want to discuss Afghanistan feel free to DM me, otherwise lets not compare Afghanistan to the Ukraine and try to present it is a *justified policing operation. *

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## mmr

Apollon said:


> Dont call him Putler. Hitler had at least military sucess. Pussolini fits better
> 
> 
> 
> Its do funny to read something like this...while at same time russia got its teeth punched out... before NATO even arrived at the scene.


ha ha good one pussolini sounds much better

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## Apollon

RescueRanger said:


> Do you even know the history of Bin Laden? Did you bother to read the paper?
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.sigar.mil/pdf/lessonslearned/SIGAR-21-46-LL.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> Are you using the wholesale slaughter of civilians in Afghanistan as somehow justified given the means used to achieve the ends? And what did the US achieve in Afghanistan? Zilch! Nada! Zero! Squat!
> 
> In Early December 2001, the USAF dropped a 15,000 bomb off the back of a C130 in Tora Bora which shook the mountains for miles after impact. In April of 2017, the US went one step further and dropped a 21000lbs MOAB on an ISIS tunnel complex.
> 
> Based on available statistics between 2006 and 2019 the allied forces dropped *47,081 bombs in Afghanistan. Let that sink in!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The U.S. failed in Afghanistan by trying to moralize with bullets and bombs
> 
> 
> To prosper after the legacy of imperialism and colonization, Afghanistan needs partnerships and business investment, not bullets and bombs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theconversation.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Major American Failure.’ A Political Scientist on Why the U.S. Lost in Afghanistan
> 
> 
> "There's no other way to characterize the overall 20-year war as anything other than a failure."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> time.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could go on for hours about Afghanistan given the fact I have actually been to the country, live next to it and been through the aftermath of the 80's, 90's and both during the GWOT and after evacuation. So if you do want to discuss Afghanistan feel free to DM me, otherwise lets not compare Afghanistan to the Ukraine and try to present it is a *justified policing operation. *



Afghanistan was asked to hand over bin Laden. It chose its fate. 

On a sidenote, in Europe we currently kick out Afghans to make room for Ukrainians.

If you realy care for Afghans, now is your time to shine

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## kingQamaR

PakFactor said:


> Russian war doctrine relies on the law of large numbers. Never were they technologically advanced since WWI to present — so those talking about Russian tech this and that forget that Russia was modeled differently they knew from beginning they can’t match the quality and capability of Western nations.
> 
> What went wrong initially is they tried to conduct war NATO style with limited numbers and limited tech. Problems were bound to arise when you don’t have the tech and order of battle planning to play that style.
> 
> However if this drags on longer then you’ll see Russia roll into Ukraine how they should’ve done from the beginning, unless a settlement is made.



They may be winning. It depends on what you think winning looks like.They’re not going to take over Ukraine, and if that was their goal, they lost.But what if they just wanted Donbas and a corridor to Crimea? They’ve probably won.

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## Clutch

*Ukraine can opt to strike on Russian soil, U.S. says*

Dave Lawler
Dave Lawler


A fire at a fuel depot in the Russian city of Belgorod. Photo: Russian government handout via Getty
The war in Ukraine seems to have reached Russian soil: three separate explosions were reported Wednesday at military storage depots, following fires on Monday at two oil storage facilities near the border.

State of play: Footage shared on social media of one of those earlier explosions suggested it was likely an “air or missile strike,” military analyst Rob Lee tweeted. Other fires at sensitive facilities farther from the border are more mysterious still, perhaps resulting from accidents or sabotage.

While Russia has not blamed Kyiv for the explosions, state media reported this week that a Ukrainian drone had been shot down over Russian territory.
Ukraine has also not directly claimed responsibility, but Mykhailo Podolyak, one of President Volodymyr Zelensky’s top advisers, tweeted that it must be “karma.”
Asked how the U.S. would view Ukrainian attacks inside Russia, Secretary of State Tony Blinken told a Senate committee on Wednesday that it was up to Ukraine to use all tactics it deemed “necessary to defend against Russian aggression.”

Podolyak quickly trumpeted Blinken's remark and said, “Ukraine will defend itself in any way, including strikes on the warehouses and bases of the killers.”


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## Wolfhunter

Ukraine will win in the end! Lets call this "special operation" what it truly is - *a war crime!*

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## PakFactor

kingQamaR said:


> They may be winning. It depends on what you think winning looks like.They’re not going to take over Ukraine, and if that was their goal, they lost.But what if they just wanted Donbas and a corridor to Crimea? They’ve probably won.



Basically from my understanding of Moscow’s motive is they want an active war zone along with territory to prevent NATO expansion, as since the 90’s Russians were lied to which is pretty clear.

Some will say Ukraine didn’t want to join NATO and making useless statements to that effect aren’t fooling anyone but themselves. It was and will always be about NATO in the end.

If Russians retain territory and keep this an active conflict zone then the Russians have won — albeit with losses, but when have the Russians ever came out of a conflict without severe losses? There thinking is the same we have in our region just throw men to solve a problem — we ourselves don’t value human life as the Western nations do.

At the moment Russia is facing an existential this much needs to be accepted and US & Co., egging this conflict just makes it worse.

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## RescueRanger

Apollon said:


> Afghanistan was asked to hand over bin Laden. It chose its fate.
> 
> On a sidenote, in Europe we currently kick out Afghans to make room for Ukrainians.
> 
> If you realy care for Afghans, now is your time to shine

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## Apollon

PakFactor said:


> Basically from my understanding of Moscow’s motive is they want an active war zone along with territory to prevent NATO expansion, as since the 90’s Russians were lied to which is pretty clear.
> 
> Some will say Ukraine didn’t want to join NATO and making useless statements to that effect aren’t fooling anyone but themselves. It was and will always be about NATO in the end.
> 
> If Russians retain territory and keep this an active conflict zone then the Russians have won — albeit with losses, but when have the Russians ever came out of a conflict without severe losses? There thinking is the same we have in our region just throw men to solve a problem — we ourselves don’t value human life as the Western nations do.
> 
> At the moment Russia is facing an existential this much needs to be accepted and US & Co., egging this conflict just makes it worse.



Thing is...russia has no men to throw. Lowest birthrate in the world. What they gonna throw in few weeks? Grandmas?



RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 838950
> 
> 
> View attachment 838951



As i said make some more room. 










Germany to Evict Existing Afghan Refugees for Clearing Out Accommodation Centres for Arriving Ukrainians - SchengenVisaInfo.com


German authorities are displacing existing refugees to make way for those coming from Ukraine, as several Afghan nationals have revealed. Miriam Arween, a social activist from Afghanistan, says she was having breakfast with her family when a social worker knocked on her door and said they had to...



www.schengenvisainfo.com

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## RescueRanger

Apollon said:


> As i said make some more room.


Why don't you practice what you preach and do the same? Were Afghan interpreters working from PAKMIL or HEER? Why don't YOU make more room? FYI Pakistan has been hosting Afghanistan refugees since 1980's. Perhaps read a little before making yourself look like an ASSHAT!

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## kingQamaR

PakFactor said:


> Basically from my understanding of Moscow’s motive is they want an active war zone along with territory to prevent NATO expansion, as since the 90’s Russians were lied to which is pretty clear.
> 
> Some will say Ukraine didn’t want to join NATO and making useless statements to that effect aren’t fooling anyone but themselves. It was and will always be about NATO in the end.
> 
> If Russians retain territory and keep this an active conflict zone then the Russians have won — albeit with losses, but when have the Russians ever came out of a conflict without severe losses? There thinking is the same we have in our region just throw men to solve a problem — we ourselves don’t value human life as the Western nations do.
> 
> At the moment Russia is facing an existential this much needs to be accepted and US & Co., egging this conflict just makes it worse.



Do Russians honestly think that Ukraine is so important to the West that they'll risk nuclear war (destroying Russia, NATO/West and putting the globe into a nuclear winter)? They’ve sanction Russia and provide weapons but there will be NO war between the 'West' and Russia...................certainly not over Ukraine anyway It is the biggest military blunder of modern times. The main tactical failure is Russia gave the Ukraine a reason to exist. That cannot now be undone. NATO is expanding and the border has doubled in length to the point where Russia cannot afford to defend it in it's entirety. There is now no way Russia can win.

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## Wolfhunter

Apollon said:


> Thing is...russia has no men to throw. Lowest birthrate in the world. What they gonna throw in few weeks? Grandmas?
> 
> 
> 
> As i said make some more room.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Germany to Evict Existing Afghan Refugees for Clearing Out Accommodation Centres for Arriving Ukrainians - SchengenVisaInfo.com
> 
> 
> German authorities are displacing existing refugees to make way for those coming from Ukraine, as several Afghan nationals have revealed. Miriam Arween, a social activist from Afghanistan, says she was having breakfast with her family when a social worker knocked on her door and said they had to...
> 
> 
> 
> www.schengenvisainfo.com


I don't know what you are on about mate but the west has an obligation to the men and women who helped ISAF and humanitarian operations in Afghanistan. Perhaps you don't give a shite but the vast majority of those with a conscience do care.

I've been working directly with a charity that helps Afghan nationals who worked with coalition forces, contractors or humanitarian agencies leave Afghanistan to safety in their country of choice depending which partner country they have worked with in country.

I think we are getting off-topic here so lets get back to topic, but pack it in with this shite about "making more room" - we in the WEST owe these people yeah! Because we promised them relocation - which we need to own up to.



kingQamaR said:


> Do Russians honestly think that Ukraine is so important to the West that they'll risk nuclear war (destroying Russia, NATO/West and putting the globe into a nuclear winter)? They’ve sanction Russia and provide weapons but there will be NO war between the 'West' and Russia...................certainly not over Ukraine anyway It is the biggest military blunder of modern times. The main tactical failure is Russia gave the Ukraine a reason to exist. That cannot now be undone. NATO is expanding and the border has doubled in length to the point where Russia cannot afford to defend it in it's entirety. There is now no way Russia can win.


Russia is stuck in a quagmire, they haven't fought a real enemy since the good old days - and for once they underestimated the ability of a weaker country to fight back and now find themselves exactly where they are vulnerable. By the time they withdraw, their military capability and pride will be effectively neutered.

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## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519772701900124166
> 
> View attachment 838933


USSR economy was about third largest in the world. Russia economy today prior war is about Spain. Soon about to be Netherlands.
Russia without Ukraine is geographically culturally more Asians than Europeans. Like China and Bangladesh. Now the Europeans draw the iron curtains, shut down doors and windows. Sure, russia has oil, gas and minerals the West needs to heat homes, but will be like Venezuela or Saudi Arabia.

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## WotTen

kingQamaR said:


> They may be winning. It depends on what you think winning looks like.They’re not going to take over Ukraine, and if that was their goal, they lost.But what if they just wanted Donbas and a corridor to Crimea? They’ve probably won.



Russia will HAVE to take over all of Ukraine. No half measures.
Otherwise, NATO will keep supplying western Ukraine to keep attacking the Russian occupied part forever.
The only way to stop it is to have a border with NATO since NATO will not launch attacks from its own territory.

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## Wolfhunter

WotTen said:


> Russia will HAVE to take over all of Ukraine. No half measures.
> Otherwise, NATO will keep supplying western Ukraine to keep attacking the Russian occupied part forever.
> The only way to stop it is to have a border with NATO since NATO will not launch attacks from its own territory.


Except Russia can't take over Ukraine!

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## Viet

WotTen said:


> Russia will HAVE to take over all of Ukraine. No half measures.
> Otherwise, NATO will keep supplying western Ukraine to keep attacking the Russian occupied part forever.
> The only way to stop it is to have a border with NATO since NATO will not launch attacks from its own territory.


You are paranoid. Nato is a defense pact. It’s not going to attack anyone, least nuclear armed Russians. But you are right Ukraine will keep attacking Russian occupied territories forever.

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## JackTheRipper

Apollon said:


> How long did you expect could gaddafi opress the various tribes?
> 
> 
> Beside that, NATO was not involved in Libya



Lol

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## Wolfhunter

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 838950
> 
> 
> View attachment 838951


Good one! Some people are so ignorant!


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## Apollon

I think it reached a stage where now russia is cut back to a state where it cant hurt its neighbors any longer

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## vi-va

Viet said:


> Rheinmetall offers Ukraine delivery of 88 Leopard 1A5. Pending on German gov approval.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine-Krieg: Nach Polen – Gazprom dreht nächstem Land den Hahn zu
> 
> 
> Ukraine-Krieg: Alle neuen Entwicklungen hier im News-Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.derwesten.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ein Panzer vom Typ Leopard 1A5
> Quelle: picture alliance / photothek


a junk


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## Apollon

vi-va said:


> a junk



Better than anything russia has.

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## Wolfhunter

Apollon said:


> Better than anything russia has.


100%


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## DF41

Wolfhunter said:


> Ukraine will win in the end! Lets call this "special operation" what it truly is - *a war crime!*
> 
> View attachment 838948


Goodbye

Enjoy the cockroaches and mould where the sun and moon never shine on.

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## TheNoob

Apollon said:


> Afghanistan was asked to hand over bin Laden. It chose its fate.
> 
> On a sidenote, in Europe we currently kick out Afghans to make room for Ukrainians.
> 
> If you realy care for Afghans, now is your time to shine



Ukraine was told not to be a NATO member, it chose its fate.

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## Wolfhunter

DF41 said:


> Goodbye
> 
> Enjoy the cockroaches and mould where the sun and moon never shine on.


I don't even know what you are talking about fella. We get plenty of sun and moon where I live. Is it some form of Confucius mumbo jumbo? If so, I am church of England mate... Sorry but wrong number!


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## Apollon

TheNoob said:


> Ukraine was told not to be a NATO member, it chose its fate.



Yes it does. For hundreds of years Ukraine was brutalized by Russia including a massive genocide during 1930th. This ends now, once and so all. Ukraine fights its war for independence and makes russians fertilizer for their soil. 

Its a widespread image in Ukraine. 


Russia has lost Ukraine forever from its grasp. The people in Ukraine hate Russia and this hate is now imprinted into their identity.


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## Wolfhunter

TheNoob said:


> Ukraine was told not to be a NATO member, it chose its fate.


I'd ignore him, comparing Afghanistan to Ukraine was a very poor example and then he used refugee statistics to try and justify his very shite point. I think he backtracked on it because he saw his arse when multiple people challenged him on his thought process.

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## Apollon

Wolfhunter said:


> I'd ignore him, comparing Afghanistan to Ukraine was a very poor example and then he used refugee statistics to try and justify his very shite point. I think he backtracked on it because he saw his arse when multiple people challenged him on his thought process.



No, you simply dont understand my thought process. I dont see any obligation to help non europeans. We need the room for Ukrainians, so the afghans must go. You may disagree with that but thats how i think


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## Wolfhunter

Apollon said:


> No, you simply dont understand my thought process. I dont see any obligation to help non europeans. We need the room for Ukrainians, so the afghans must go. You may disagree with that but thats how i think


Well mate you needed the non-Europeans when you were in Afghan. Lets not kid ourselves here and stop being a sanctimonious twat, you will see how stupid you sound. Now if you want to live in your own little bubble that is fine, but with power comes responsibility. 

I served on TELIC in Afghan and let me tell you, we (NATO) owe it to the Afghan people to help them. If you want to carry on with your far-right (eurocentric) bullshite, take it elsewhere.

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## Apollon

Wolfhunter said:


> Well mate you needed the non-Europeans when you were in Afghan. Lets not kid ourselves here and stop being a sanctimonious twat, you will see how stupid you sound. Now if you want to live in your own little bubble that is fine, but with power comes responsibility.
> 
> I served on TELIC in Afghan and let me tell you, we (NATO) owe it to the Afghan people to help them. If you want to carry on with your far-right (eurocentric) bullshite, take it elsewhere.



Its not far right euro centric bullshit. Its macchiavellism. 


As i said i respect your opinion. I see it different. And it appears the people in charge see it like i do.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519797587892604928


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519797587892604928


U.S., French, U.K. Nuclear Submarines Rendezvous In Scotland​








U.S., French, U.K. Nuclear Submarines Rendezvous In Scotland


The unusual multinational submarine gathering comes at a time of unprecedented tensions in Europe around Russia's war in Ukraine.




www.thedrive.com


----------



## Wolfhunter

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519797587892604928


Russia is going doolally



Get Ya Wig Split said:


> U.S., French, U.K. Nuclear Submarines Rendezvous In Scotland​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S., French, U.K. Nuclear Submarines Rendezvous In Scotland
> 
> 
> The unusual multinational submarine gathering comes at a time of unprecedented tensions in Europe around Russia's war in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com


Mate I hate to admit it but our trident submarines are ancient, we need more money towards defense and this situation in Ukraine has been an eye opener.


----------



## Wolfhunter

Brave British solider died defending freedom:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519825006594772995


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Apollon said:


> Dont call him Putler. Hitler had at least military sucess. Pussolini fits better
> 
> 
> 
> Its do funny to read something like this...while at same time russia got its teeth punched out... before NATO even arrived at the scene.



All I see is European members of NATO rushing to Russia and accepting the Russian demand of selling gas on the Ruble. By rejecting the petro-dollar, Russia is already blowing a hole into the walls built by the empire. This is the main reason that you're all sending weapons to Ukraine.



Wolfhunter said:


> Brave British solider died defending freedom:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519825006594772995



He died for the efforts to save the fraudulent fiat money.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Apollon said:


> I think it reached a stage where now russia is cut back to a state where it cant hurt its neighbors any longer




This one is a day dreamer.

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519797587892604928


Ah for the upcoming parade
But there is nothing to celebrate.
The great offensive at Donbas has failed.
Dvornikov has halted the advance.
Russian troops are digging in trenches.

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## Corax

Viet said:


> Russia is not USSR.
> Russia is much smaller in size, less population, zero ally, small economy, little manufacturing accept military complex, more propaganda, more corrupt. It’s leadership is one man rule vulnerable to disaster. Russia can’t sustain a long war of attrition.



Not entirely true, the USSR was mostly Russia, most of the industry and technological base was and still is in Russia. The USSR was mostly a Russian communist empire.

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## Wolfhunter

Eyes in the sky:


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Wolfhunter said:


> Brave British solider died defending freedom:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519825006594772995



He died for the fraudulent fiat money that sucks life out of poor masses around the world. You gotta give it to Vladimir Putin: For the first time in 77 years, someone is challenging the empire of the Antichrist. And the panic amongst the elites of this evil empire is self evident. 

Giving a solute to President Vladimir Putin

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## RescueRanger

*Transnistria has stopped all men of fighting age from leaving its territory. *

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## Wolfhunter

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> He died for the fraudulent fiat money that sucks life out of poor masses around the world. You gotta give it to Vladimir Putin: For the first time in 77 years, someone is challenging the empire of the Antichrist. And the panic amongst the elites of this evil empire is self evident.
> 
> Giving a solute to President Vladimir Putin


So you agree with the invasion and killing of innocent people?


----------



## Wergeland

Wolfhunter said:


> Brave British solider died defending freedom:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519825006594772995



White christian terrorist.

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## Wolfhunter

Wergeland said:


> White christian terrorist.


How was he a terrorist when he was a signed up member of the Ukrainian National Army?


----------



## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> He died for the fraudulent fiat money that sucks life out of poor masses around the world. You gotta give it to Vladimir Putin: For the first time in 77 years, someone is challenging the empire of the Antichrist. And the panic amongst the elites of this evil empire is self evident.
> 
> Giving a solute to President Vladimir Putin



Oh yeah Putin is fighting against the antichrist and the juice elites even though Russia is one of the country with the biggest jewish population and where a lot of the most powerful and richest people are jewish LMAO.

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## Viet

Corax said:


> Not entirely true, the USSR was mostly Russia, most of the industry and technological base was and still is in Russia. The USSR was mostly a Russian communist empire.


Yes, but Ukraine came second after Russia within USSR. Ukraine has large natural resources, enormous agra, industrial and manufacturing base. Ukraine can make missiles, nuclear bombs, ships, engines. Russia without Ukraine is just a small fish in economic terms.


----------



## Corax

Wolfhunter said:


> How was he a terrorist when he was a signed up member of the Ukrainian National Army?



One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

There are real reasons why this war is happening, Putin and the Russians aren't stupid. They wouldn't risk the entire country on this adventure if they didn't have good reasons. 

The US has been supporting the neo-Nazis in Ukraine to lead an anti-Russian agenda, attempting to ban the Russian language, etc simply to get one back at the Russians and to loosen the Russian influence in Europe. They hated European reliance in Russian energy and gas, the money laundering by European banks and financial institutions of the Russian oligarchs, and Russia's ever increasing encroachment into European politics.

The rednecks on this forum are too stupid, ignorant, or don't want to acknowledge that this war has been precipitated by direct US meddling in Ukraine and Europe. Putin and the Russians knew all this. They know it's a trap. But they gambled that they would rather take on Ukraine now while they still have a chance, rather than wait any longer before it became too well armed by the US.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519981929386369025


Vergennes said:


> Oh yeah Putin is fighting against the antichrist and the juice elites even though Russia is one of the country with the biggest jewish population and where a lot of the most powerful and richest people are jewish LMAO.



Where did I mention Jews, you twat? You are only sharing your prejudices towards them.


----------



## Wolfhunter

Corax said:


> One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
> 
> There are real reasons why this war is happening, Putin and the Russians aren't stupid. They wouldn't risk the entire country on this adventure if they didn't have good reasons.
> 
> The US has been supporting the neo-Nazis in Ukraine to lead an anti-Russian agenda, attempting to ban the Russian language, etc simply to get one back at the Russians and to loosen the Russian influence in Europe. They hated European reliance in Russian energy and gas, the money laundering by European banks and financial institutions of the Russian oligarchs, and Russia's ever increasing encroachment into European politics.
> 
> The rednecks on this forum are too stupid, ignorant, or don't want to acknowledge that this war has been precipitated by direct US meddling in Ukraine and Europe. Putin and the Russians knew all this. They know it's a trap. But they gambled that they would rather take on Ukraine now while they still have a chance, rather than wait any longer before it became too well armed by the US.


Yes but a solider in the service of a national army acting in self defense cannot by logic or reason or rhyme fit the defenition of a terrorist. 







A solider or member of an armed force of a country acting in self-defense does not fit the definition of terrorism!


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519980584914853894


----------



## Corax

Wolfhunter said:


> Yes but a solider in the service of a national army acting in self defense cannot by logic or reason or rhyme fit the defenition of a terrorist.
> 
> View attachment 839005
> 
> 
> A solider or member of an armed force of a country acting in self-defense does not fit the definition of terrorism!



Where in that definition you pulled from Google does it mention anything about excluding a soldier in an army? It simply states "a person". Try harder. And while you're at it, you need to explain the same argument to the US who want to label the Russians as a "terrorist state"...western hypocrisy again. The Russians are also claiming "self defence" of the ethnic Russians in the Donbas persecuted by the Ukrainian nationalists and neo-Nazis.


----------



## Wolfhunter

Corax said:


> Where in that definition you pulled from Google does it mention anything about excluding a soldier in an army? It simply states "a person". Try harder. And while you're at it, you need to explain the same argument to the US who want to label the Russians as a "terrorist state"...western hypocrisy again.


I don't need to try harder at all. Why don't you educate yourself on the difference between soldiers and terrorists:






Customary IHL - Rule 3. Definition of Combatants


Rule 3. Definition of Combatants



ihl-databases.icrc.org





Funny how you live in the UK but call a British solider a terrorist. You people are disgusting.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519967263394340866


----------



## RoadAmerica

Bengal71 said:


> Things are happening fast. If it gets out of control, the whole of Europe could be embroiled in a war and the US will be responsible for it. Good for the rest of the world, the white people have been killing non-whites in their imperialist wars for too long. I hope they fight each other.


You’re a sad person hoping for war 🙄

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519746534031638529


----------



## Wolfhunter

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519746534031638529


Fake News!


----------



## Corax

Wolfhunter said:


> I don't need to try harder at all. Why don't you educate yourself on the difference between soldiers and terrorists:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Customary IHL - Rule 3. Definition of Combatants
> 
> 
> Rule 3. Definition of Combatants
> 
> 
> 
> ihl-databases.icrc.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how you live in the UK but call a British solider a terrorist. You people are disgusting.



STFU...you can label it however you want to, and he wasn't a British soldier, even by your own description, he was a Ukrainian soldier. Funny how many Brits are rallying around the neo-Nazis in Ukraine, found their natural allies. Don't f***** make any judgements about me mate...if it wasn't for my grandparents fighting in the British armed forces in WWI and WWII along with millions of others from the British empire...you'd be speaking German you twat!

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## Wolfhunter

Corax said:


> STFU...you can label it however you want to, and he wasn't a British soldier, even by your own description, he was a Ukrainian soldier. Funny how many Brits are rallying around the neo-Nazis in Ukraine, found their natural allies. Don't f***** make any judgements about me mate...if it wasn't for my grandparents fighting in the British armed forces in WWI and WWII along with millions of others from the British empire...you'd be speaking German you twat!


You're grandparents? I come from a generation who have all served in the British Army. My Great grandfather and granduncle also fought in Flanders


----------



## RoadAmerica

DF41 said:


> USA is too big.
> Needed to be re sized into 50 different countries
> 
> The whole world will be a lot more safe that way.


Chyna is too big, needs to be resized into 150 different countries. 
See how stupid you sound?


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519946804925767680
"world's second most powerful army"

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## Wolfhunter

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519946804925767680
> "world's second most powerful army"


One is laid out like a US IFAK (Individual First Aid Kit complete with hemostatic dressing) and the other is some garbage. Clearly Russian doesn't value the lives of their soldiers, imagine sending soldiers out in a war zone without even so much as a torniquet.



Corax said:


> Ah look at you, someone doesn't agree with what you say and you get your knickers in a twist?! You f**** twat...what happened to your precious freedom of speech all of a sudden? And if you find this forum so offensive, why are you on here? I couldn't give a flying f*** about you or your service...you know absolute f*** all about me or my ancestors who f***** saved the likes of you and your British Empire...so take your racist rants and f*** off you twat.


I'm not racist at all you are a moron and an illiterate who is mooching off the UK and our good nature. If you don't like the UK and have no loyalty to our country - leave.

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## RoadAmerica

WotTen said:


> Russia will HAVE to take over all of Ukraine. No half measures.
> Otherwise, NATO will keep supplying western Ukraine to keep attacking the Russian occupied part forever.
> The only way to stop it is to have a border with NATO since NATO will not launch attacks from its own territory.


Well we saw how that worked last month, guess that’s not happening.


----------



## Vergennes

Wolfhunter said:


> One is laid out like a US IFAK (Individual First Aid Kit complete with hemostatic dressing) and the other is some garbage. Clearly Russian doesn't value the lives of their soldiers, imagine sending soldiers out in a war zone without even so much as a torniquet.



Money for medkits probably went to buy some yachts and mansions in London and the south of France.

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## Wolfhunter

Vergennes said:


> Money for medkits probably went to buy some yachts and mansions in London and the south of France.


It's sad, they have people fighting for them who they don't even give a fig about. And then you have keyboard warriors on here who aren't even Russian and are acting like they are Putin's best mates... Defending the abhorrent act of aggression by Russia against a peaceful country.

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## Corax

Wolfhunter said:


> It's sad, they have people fighting for them who they don't even give a fig about. And then you have keyboard warriors on here who aren't even Russian and are acting like they are Putin's best mates... Defending the abhorrent act of aggression by Russia against a peaceful country.



Tell that to Iraqis, Afghans, Palestinians, and every other place the US and its poodle the UK has bombed...f****** hypocrites.

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## Wolfhunter

Corax said:


> Tell that to Iraqis, Afghans, Palestinians, and every other place the US and its poodle the UK has bombed...f****** hypocrites.


You keep referring to the UK as a poodle! Do you have no loyalty towards the country you live in?


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519989182281785345
Media: Poland provided Ukraine with over* 200 T- 72 tanks*, dozens of infantry fighting vehicles.

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## RoadAmerica

Corax said:


> One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
> 
> There are real reasons why this war is happening, Putin and the Russians aren't stupid. They wouldn't risk the entire country on this adventure if they didn't have good reasons.
> 
> The US has been supporting the neo-Nazis in Ukraine to lead an anti-Russian agenda, attempting to ban the Russian language, etc simply to get one back at the Russians and to loosen the Russian influence in Europe. They hated European reliance in Russian energy and gas, the money laundering by European banks and financial institutions of the Russian oligarchs, and Russia's ever increasing encroachment into European politics.
> 
> The rednecks on this forum are too stupid, ignorant, or don't want to acknowledge that this war has been precipitated by direct US meddling in Ukraine and Europe. Putin and the Russians knew all this. They know it's a trap. But they gambled that they would rather take on Ukraine now while they still have a chance, rather than wait any longer before it became too well armed by the US.


Really it’s some grand scheme and Putin fell for it.
Come on man 🙄


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519981740273590272
Poland sent 230 tanks

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519979311310286848


----------



## RoadAmerica

Corax said:


> Tell that to Iraqis, Afghans, Palestinians, and every other place the US and its poodle the UK has bombed...f****** hypocrites.


😭


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519635359906340872


----------



## Corax

Wolfhunter said:


> You keep referring to the UK as a poodle! Do you have no loyalty towards the country you live in?



Do you have any loyalties to the *VALUES* of the country *YOU* live in?! Those were the loyalties of my ancestors who travelled thousands of miles to fight and defeated the scourge of Nazism, they were not hypocrites like you, and they are the loyalties of *MY COUNTRY*. And yet here you are, defending neo Nazis at the behest of the UK's master, the US, simply to vilify and weaken the Russians. By the way, where's the so called "weapons of mass destruction" the Iraqis were meant to have?!! You have absolute f*** all idea about anything and what's going on.

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## mulj

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519989182281785345
> Media: Poland provided Ukraine with over* 200 T- 72 tanks*, dozens of infantry fighting vehicles.


They got rid of the junk instead they will be rewarded with modern western equipment by convinient terms.

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## Corax

RoadAmerica said:


> 😭



Sick minded f***....you find the genocide of millions of Iraqis amusing?!

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## Get Ya Wig Split

mulj said:


> They got rid of the junk instead they will be rewarded with modern western equipment by convinient terms.


*WARSAW, Poland — Polish Defence Minister Mariusz Błaszczak on Tuesday signed a deal worth about $4.75 billion to buy 250 M1A2 Abrams SEPv3 from the United States.*








Poland signs $4.75 billion Abrams tank deal as Russia’s war speeds procurements


Deliveries are to begin this year, with 28 tanks to be procured to the country’s armed forces.




www.defensenews.com













U.S. announces Abrams tanks for Poland as Russia threat mounts


U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin announced on Friday the planned sale of 250 Abrams tanks to Poland, as Washington moves to strengthen the defences of a key eastern European ally amid a mounting threat of war between neighboring Ukraine and Russia.




www.reuters.com

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519974503039836160

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## Bengal71

RoadAmerica said:


> You’re a sad person hoping for war 🙄



You Americans and Europeans are sadder actually starting and perpetrating war.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519997113249189889

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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519992165241397249

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## mulj

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> *WARSAW, Poland — Polish Defence Minister Mariusz Błaszczak on Tuesday signed a deal worth about $4.75 billion to buy 250 M1A2 Abrams SEPv3 from the United States.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poland signs $4.75 billion Abrams tank deal as Russia’s war speeds procurements
> 
> 
> Deliveries are to begin this year, with 28 tanks to be procured to the country’s armed forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defensenews.com


Expected, regarding this donations of sssr leftovers to ukraina, i find it more liability then usefull help.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519968449744805890

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## Get Ya Wig Split




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519970206193442816

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## Wood

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519979311310286848


How do they drive these tanks all the way to front lines in the East? Ukraine may be running short of fuel supplies to begin with. Rail based logistics may not work because Russia could more easily strike 🤔

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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519819693053329408

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## Wolfhunter

Corax said:


> Do you have any loyalties to the *VALUES* of the country *YOU* live in?! Those were the loyalties of my ancestors who travelled thousands of miles to fight and defeated the scourge of Nazism, they were not hypocrites like you, and they are the loyalties of *MY COUNTRY*. And yet here you are, defending neo Nazis at the behest of the UK's master, the US, simply to vilify and weaken the Russians. By the way, where's the so called "weapons of mass destruction" the Iraqis were meant to have?!! You have absolute f*** all idea about anything and what's going on.


LOL. Yes I am born and bred here. I took an oath to serve this country and I respect it's values. All you are doing is hyperbole in calling your adopted country "POODLE" you are just another ingrate.



Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519989182281785345
> Media: Poland provided Ukraine with over* 200 T- 72 tanks*, dozens of infantry fighting vehicles.


Good blow the Russians out of Ukraine.

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## kingQamaR

RoadAmerica said:


> 😭



The entire US invasion of Iraq is a war crime! But to narrow it down a bit, I believe that humiliating and/or abusing prisoners of war, as you did in the Al Graihb prison, is a clear war crime you sick fckers

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## Piotr

29 Apr, 13:43
Russia hunting for Canadian instructors grooming Ukrainian militants for war crimes​
According to the statement, the Russian Investigative Committee’s investigators are looking into this fact as part of criminal cases related to the crimes of Ukrainian nationalists

MOSCOW, April 29. /TASS/. The Russian Investigative Committee has launched a probe into the activities of Canadian military instructors who trained Ukrainian neo-Nazis, the committee said in a statement on Friday.
"The Investigative Committee’s investigators, who are looking into this fact as part of criminal cases related to the crimes of Ukrainian nationalists, will employ measures to identify those engaged in military training programs teaching ways to commit crimes against civilians," the statement reads.
According to the available data, Canadian military instructors engaged in a training mission in Ukraine grooming members of the Azov nationalist battalion.

https://tass.com/world/1445377

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## Wolfhunter

This image gives an impression of just how many munitions Russia has used against largely civilian targets in Ukraine:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519990350437392384


----------



## Wergeland

Wolfhunter said:


> How was he a terrorist when he was a signed up member of the Ukrainian National Army?



Dont act dumb. You know what i mean.__


----------



## Piotr

Chechens Liquidate More Zelensky Regime Banderite Militants (18+)​


> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chechens Liquidate More Zelensky Regime Banderite Militants (18+)
> 
> 
> Akhmat Sila!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bitchute.com

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520009336642232321

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## Piotr

Z Soldier Entertains The Children​








Z Soldier Entertains The Children







www.bitchute.com

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## JackTheRipper

Apollon said:


> Afghanistan was asked to hand over bin Laden. It chose its fate.
> 
> On a sidenote, in Europe we currently kick out Afghans to make room for Ukrainians.
> 
> If you realy care for Afghans, now is your time to shine



simple question is why allies did not show the body of Osama to media?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519981747311677441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520004972779352065


Viet said:


> Ukraine army urgently needs long range artillery and tanks.



What difference would that make? Won't last a week against Russian armed drones.

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## DF41

RescueRanger said:


> Do you even know the history of Bin Laden? Did you bother to read the paper?
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.sigar.mil/pdf/lessonslearned/SIGAR-21-46-LL.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> Are you using the wholesale slaughter of civilians in Afghanistan as somehow justified given the means used to achieve the ends? And what did the US achieve in Afghanistan? Zilch! Nada! Zero! Squat!
> 
> In Early December 2001, the USAF dropped a 15,000 bomb off the back of a C130 in Tora Bora which shook the mountains for miles after impact. In April of 2017, the US went one step further and dropped a 21000lbs MOAB on an ISIS tunnel complex.
> 
> Based on available statistics between 2006 and 2019 the allied forces dropped *47,081 bombs in Afghanistan. Let that sink in!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The U.S. failed in Afghanistan by trying to moralize with bullets and bombs
> 
> 
> To prosper after the legacy of imperialism and colonization, Afghanistan needs partnerships and business investment, not bullets and bombs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theconversation.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Major American Failure.’ A Political Scientist on Why the U.S. Lost in Afghanistan
> 
> 
> "There's no other way to characterize the overall 20-year war as anything other than a failure."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> time.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I could go on for hours about Afghanistan given the fact I have actually been to the country, live next to it and been through the aftermath of the 80's, 90's and both during the GWOT and after evacuation. So if you do want to discuss Afghanistan feel free to DM me, otherwise lets not compare Afghanistan to the Ukraine and try to present it is a *justified policing operation. *


It gotten to a stage that NOTHING USA saying and doing ever believable anymore.

Never before such a collection of crooks and liars and thieves can be seen.

Everything USA did is for their own vested interests, including killing of millions

As we seen Madeline declaring the deaths of 600,000 worth it .

Never can there be something more sickening than her declaration of pride in the deaths of 600,000 kids that she destroyed


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520007771021885440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519992336075345922

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519961327095226369

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519952476966899712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519911449359187970

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519879768564551685


----------



## DF41

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> He died for the efforts to save the fraudulent fiat money.


Playing stupid games
Win stupid prize.

He should easily win Darwin Award as well.







Together with all the other gungho volunteers

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520021169012887553
corruption is so deep in russian army they are sending their soldiers with ww2 helmets


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520021252240457729

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520027109112139778


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520016627080773632


----------



## K_Bin_W

JackTheRipper said:


> simple question is why allies did not show the body of Osama to media?


Because there wasn't any...


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520026037970743296


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520029355396804609


----------



## thetutle

Trango Towers said:


> OK. Yiu are entitled to your opinion. Even though I consider it to be wrong and old


What was wrong with what he said? Why didnt russia stop or down the Israeli planes or missiles attacking Syria?


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520016627080773632


These seem very cheap and effective. What drones are used? Commercial or military grade?


----------



## Paul2

kingQamaR said:


> Ukrainian Modern weapons can kill those vast numbers of soldiers and make that advantage disappear



The thing is it's Russia which is outnumbered here.

Russia today is not a zerg army, but that of a lot of unwieldy, and expensive wunderwaffe hardware no conscript can use. Basically, they have very, very few officers who know their shit.

From telegram groups of people supplying Ukrainian frontline:

Intercept: unit A - got 150 satellite guided rounds, but has no programmer for them
Unit B - was supposed to laser paint targets for helis, but their target painter didn't work
They change encrypted radio keys, but no officer in the field has the key programmer, so they switched back to HF walkietalkies.
Equipment dying to bad fuel, or multi-fuel engines failing to work on gas because no engineer knows how to switch them
T80 units got smart frag shells long past storage date, half of them fail to detonate
Their fleet tried to fire ASMs on land targets, and simply forgetting that it has no satellites there to relay guidance
And of course, as Russia is losing the few of its very valuable, and irreplaceable high value units, Ukraine will only be getting stronger PGM-wise, and with ranged fire.

Russians basically used up their trump card for nothing bombing cities, and killing territorials, while regular force, and high value Ukrainian units will now outnumber Russians even without reservists, and territorials.

Russia was a protos player, thinking it was a zerg, and using all of the high value stuff as a cannon fodder.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## A.P. Richelieu

Corax said:


> Care to explain what "western" electronics and technology is in Kalibr cruise missiles?





Corax said:


> Care to explain what "western" electronics and technology is in Kalibr cruise missiles?


You can’t build modern electronics without capacitors.
Russia has very limited knowledge on many types of capacitors and therefore import them.
A printed circuit board lacking a single type of component like this might not work. 
A redesign with bulky Russian capacitors might not even fit.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520029355396804609


This is like a video game. Seems like anyone can do it from their sofa


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

jamal18 said:


> You mean the only country in the world to field hypersonic missiles?


Russia uses Western components in a lot of equipment because they do not have the capability to mass produce fine geometry advanced electronics in volume.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The Western elites won't tell us (the masses) about why they were trying to squeeze the Russians. The root cause of this conflict between the West and Russia is about the preservation of the fiat money. The West wants to make sure that the Petro-Dollar remains the fiat money of the world. And that can only be done when Russia, which is major energy producer, and China, which is a major economic power, are contained. If you really look at the wars against Libya and Iraq and the sanctions against Iran are all based on preserving this Petro-Dollar financial system.
> 
> Sadly, the Ukrainians have a leadership that couldn't foresee how they've been setup as a canon fodder for a conflict that shouldn't have them engaged at all. And I would add Sweden should also remain neutral and stay clear from a conflict that doesn't concern them.


When Russia violates Swedish Air Space armed with nuclear weapons, which happened March 2, they make us involved.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519989182281785345
> Media: Poland provided Ukraine with over* 200 T- 72 tanks*, dozens of infantry fighting vehicles.



Blown up by Russian armed drones within a week. Poland has no tank left. Ordering 250 Abrams.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Corax said:


> Sick minded f***....you find the genocide of millions of Iraqis amusing?!


95% of the Iraqis killed were killed by other Iraqis if you check the Iraqi Bodycount home page.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> The thing is it's Russia which is outnumbered here.
> 
> Russia today is not a zerg army, but that of a lot of unwieldy, and expensive wunderwaffe hardware no conscript can use. Basically, they have very, very few officers who know their shit.
> 
> From telegram groups of people supplying Ukrainian frontline:
> 
> Intercept: unit A - got 150 satellite guided rounds, but has no programmer for them
> Unit B - was supposed to laser paint targets for helis, but their target painter didn't work
> They change encrypted radio keys, but no officer in the field has the key programmer, so they switched back to HF walkietalkies.
> Equipment dying to bad fuel, or multi-fuel engines failing to work on gas because no engineer knows how to switch them
> T80 units got smart frag shells long past storage date, half of them fail to detonate
> Their fleet tried to fire ASMs on land targets, and simply forgetting that it has no satellites there to relay guidance
> And of course, as Russia is losing the few of its very valuable, and irreplaceable high value units, Ukraine will only be getting stronger PGM-wise, and with ranged fire.
> 
> Russians basically used up their trump card for nothing bombing cities, and killing territorials, while regular force, and high value Ukrainian units will now outnumber Russians even without reservists, and territorials.
> 
> Russia was a protos player, thinking it was a zerg, and using all of the high value stuff as a cannon fodder.




The only advantage they have now is massed artillery. But their artillery advantage is going to be degraded as the M777s come online. And with the new $20B US package upcoming, I expect hundreds of new artillery pieces to enter the fight. 

Russia has now fired almost 2,000 cruise and ballistic missiles. They’ve got to be near 50% PGM depletion.


----------



## Apollon

JackTheRipper said:


> simple question is why allies did not show the body of Osama to media?



Its not usual in western cultures to do so.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520031823249788928

Damn!


----------



## Apollon

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520021169012887553
> corruption is so deep in russian army they are sending their soldiers with ww2 helmets
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520021252240457729
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520027109112139778



Wait a Minute...did the drone bomb fall into the car window? 😅


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> The only advantage they have now is massed artillery. But their artillery advantage is going to be degraded as the M777s come online. And with the new $20B US package upcoming, I expect hundreds of new artillery pieces to enter the fight.
> 
> Russia has now fired almost 2,000 cruise and ballistic missiles. They’ve got to be near 50% PGM depletion.



M777 lacks the range to engage Russian artillery. Not only will most M777 be knocked out by Russian armed drones flying around, Smerch can knocked out M777 from a distance using 120 km range GLONASS guided rounds.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519990895214485505


----------



## F-22Raptor

Tai Hai Chen said:


> M777 lacks the range to engage Russian artillery. Not only will most M777 be knocked out by Russian armed drones flying around, Smerch can knocked out M777 from a distance using 120 km range GLONASS guided rounds.



The M777s are superior to any Russian towed artillery and can be rapidly deployed after firing. Their counter battery radars can rapidly identify Russian artillery and return fire with guided rounds within 60-90 seconds. 

Ukrainian artillery has been excellent.


----------



## thetutle

DF41 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519621346161876992
> 
> The depth of analysis by a Chinese girl in English using Romance of 3 Kingdoms.
> English not her first language either.
> 
> More profound then the idiots of Murica UK NATO shit heads.


Sounds like a pretty clueless kid. This is a battle between good and evil.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520035833545433088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520016749944524800

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

Kyew rips down "Ukraine Russia Friendship" monument 








Thats right thing to do. Rip those monstrosities down.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Apollon said:


> Kyew rips down "Ukraine Russia Friendship" monument
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats right thing to do. Rip those monstrosities down.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520039182294466562

Damn!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520039182294466562
> 
> Damn!



Any clue what hit it?


----------



## Paul2

Viet said:


> Yes, but Ukraine came second after Russia within USSR. Ukraine has large natural resources, enormous agra, industrial and manufacturing base. Ukraine can make missiles, nuclear bombs, ships, engines. Russia without Ukraine is just a small fish in economic terms.



Yes, for the first time I am seeing somebody seeing this point here besides me.

Pussolini basically seen Ukraine as a chance to grab a lot of money making industry + big probability they also wanted hydrocarbons discovered a decade ago near Crimea.

They also were their biggest competitors in the defence industry for ex-bloc military hardware.

It's purely a materialistic reason for the invasion, no ideology involved.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

Hack-Hook said:


> KSA is not well known for its Gas reserve. by the way if you buy Gas from another source , then another one who already buy from that source have to go and buy from somewhere else namely Russia so nothing gained here


Who do you think will buy as much gas as Germany? Who has the money? Somalia? Asian countries can buy some Russian gas, but much of it will go unsold at spot prices.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Apollon said:


> Any clue what hit it?



Mortar or drone launched munition?


----------



## thetutle

Corax said:


> I never said they are not working ...but the *Russians have a limitless supply chain* to replace them, they are insignificant numbers compared with the size of the Russian armed forces. However, these weapons are ineffective against cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, long range artillery, etc...to the Russians, knocking out a few thousand pieces of outdated armour and losing around 15,000 troops is peanuts...you redneck


We are now testing this limitless supply theory.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519763655608479746
Almost every other day, there seems to be talk of nuclear strike in Russian state TV. The Russian state is fast devolving into some form of death cult

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520042517382766592


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519917542697054211


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520038278862446594


----------



## Trango Towers

thetutle said:


> What was wrong with what he said? Why didnt russia stop or down the Israeli planes or missiles attacking Syria?


Time and aplace to pick fights. And what are you speaking for him..he can fight his own corner

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520045643221409792

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520017357661515776
God bless you Willy, a true hero!

Reactions: Sad Sad:
4


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## Hack-Hook

thetutle said:


> Who do you think will buy as much gas as Germany? Who has the money? Somalia? Asian countries can buy some Russian gas, but much of it will go unsold at spot prices.


not one several country who already buy from Qatar has to go and get it from Russia , it wont matter much for Russia if it sell the gas to one buyer or to 10 buyer.
this only made logistic trouble and rise the price and 3 country will love that.


----------



## Viet

Paul2 said:


> Yes, for the first time I am seeing somebody seeing this point here besides me.
> 
> Pussolini basically seen Ukraine as a chance to grab a lot of money making industry + big probability they also wanted hydrocarbons discovered a decade ago near Crimea.
> 
> They also were their biggest competitors in the defence industry for ex-bloc military hardware.
> 
> It's purely a materialistic reason for the invasion, no ideology involved.


Russians are not hunting nazi in Ukraine. They go looting, killing, raping. Putin has personal motives he wages war against Ukraine out of a combination of hatred, racism and great delusion.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519951101617111040
Good grief this is humiliating. I earn more in a half days work.

Reactions: Sad Sad:
1


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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The root cause of this conflict between the West and Russia is about the preservation of the fiat money. The West wants to make sure that the Petro-Dollar remains the fiat money of the world.


You have no logical sequence of thought. Russia didnt want end fiat money, it also uses fiat money. The conflict started with invasion of Ukraine.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> The M777s are superior to any Russian towed artillery and can be rapidly deployed after firing. Their counter battery radars can rapidly identify Russian artillery and return fire with guided rounds within 60-90 seconds.
> 
> Ukrainian artillery has been excellent.



While it is true M777 is superior to Russian towed artillery, but Smerch eats M777 for breakfast, lunch, dinner, dessert using 120 km range GLONASS guided cluster rounds.


----------



## mmr

Corax said:


> STFU...you can label it however you want to, and he wasn't a British soldier, even by your own description, he was a Ukrainian soldier. Funny how many Brits are rallying around the neo-Nazis in Ukraine, found their natural allies. Don't f***** make any judgements about me mate...if it wasn't for my grandparents fighting in the British armed forces in WWI and WWII along with millions of others from the British empire...you'd be speaking German you twat!


you sound as fake as it gets lol


----------



## thetutle

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519692539615485954


Dolhpins are smart animals, they wil probably defect and seek a better life at San Diego zoo.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520050580076605441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520050858955874306


----------



## thetutle

WotTen said:


> The support for Russia is not about Russia. It is the desire to see NATO take a punch in the face for a change, even indirectly through Ukraine, for all the death and destruction NATO has caused in the Muslim world.
> 
> It doesn't matter who is giving the punch, as long as the punch lands on NATO.


NATO is not being punched.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520051139349262336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520051775394529281


----------



## mmr

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520039182294466562
> 
> Damn!


 lol no more tik tok videos then

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520052892337586177

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520052527693238275

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520040053501800449

Reactions: Sad Sad:
1


----------



## Ich

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519692539615485954



Russia also use Potwales to destroy costal batteries in Odessa....


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520050203671281672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520050205445734405

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520050206993272835

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520050208759062530

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520050210034049024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520050211367931906

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520050212944896000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520050214656266240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520050216484880384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520050218166853632


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

hehe

All of the tough talk from the Poles, they couldn't keep it up after 24 hours. They started crying to the rest of the EU, and other countries are increasing their sales of Russian gas while paying in rubles. Then these countries are gonna be reselling it to the Poles. 

ROFL

Reactions: Like Like:
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## JackTheRipper

Apollon said:


> Its not usual in western cultures to do so.


OK, Throwing dead body in Sea water is usual?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520055308634275848

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520057767305875458

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520058037934952453


----------



## DF41

Tai Hai Chen said:


> While it is true M777 is superior to Russian towed artillery, but Smerch eats M777 for breakfast, lunch, dinner, dessert using 120 km range GLONASS guided cluster rounds.















唱喀秋莎的小女孩长大了，Katyusha Valeria Kurnushkina 2015_哔哩哔哩_bilibili


唱喀秋莎的小女孩长大了，Katyusha Valeria Kurnushkina 2015转自You Tube




m.bilibili.com

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520056431201894400


----------



## DF41

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> View attachment 839114
> 
> 
> hehe
> 
> All of the tough talk from the Poles, they couldn't keep it up after 24 hours. They started crying to the rest of the EU, and other countries are increasing their sales of Russian gas while paying in rubles. Then these countries are gonna be reselling it to the Poles.
> 
> ROFL


----------



## RoadAmerica

Corax said:


> Sick minded f***....you find the genocide of millions of Iraqis amusing?!


Not at all, but apparently you find it amusing or at least condone what is happening on Ukraine. 

So….😭



Bengal71 said:


> You Americans and Europeans are sadder actually starting and perpetrating war.


I’m very happy in life actually.
Russia started this, just like America started the second golf war, you can’t have it both ways.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## nang2

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> View attachment 839114
> 
> 
> hehe
> 
> All of the tough talk from the Poles, they couldn't keep it up after 24 hours. They started crying to the rest of the EU, and other countries are increasing their sales of Russian gas while paying in rubles. Then these countries are gonna be reselling it to the Poles.
> 
> ROFL


It also took Europe 24 hours to report it. Russia gas company reported yesterday already but nobody in the west paid attention.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

thetutle said:


> You have no logical sequence of thought. Russia didnt want end fiat money, it also uses fiat money. The conflict started with invasion of Ukraine.



Russia started setting up the SPFS (System for Transfer of Financial Messages), similar to the Western-backed SWIFT and China's CIPS, in 2014. They did this so their central bank and other countries' central banks can trade, that way Western sanctions can't stop Russia and others from continuing their trade. And having financial systems which are outside of Swift means trade that is not happening either on the US Dollar or the Euro. And ever since these 2 financial systems were announced, the Western financial elites were nervous. 

Now, after the West escalated the conflict by imposing crippling sanctions on Russia, President Putin upped the ante by demanding ruble-based gas payments. This is another blow against the Petro-Dollar. For the first time in 50 years, you have oil and gas being traded on currencies that aren't the US Dollar nor Euro. And this is why the empire is now sending tens of billions of USD of arms and equipment to Ukraine.

I want to be honest with you, your understanding of the world events is just very rudimentory. Now, keep bragging about being "whitey" and stop quoting me. I like to debate with people who, at least, have some form of understanding on the root causes of this conflict.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519973230865379328


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520067674247766022


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520060256843350019

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520061246275563520

Reactions: Love Love:
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## The SC

#Urgent
A senior Pentagon official: Russian forces are moving from Mariupol in the north to encircle Ukrainian forces from the south

#Urgent
A senior Pentagon official: In the next 24 hours, 12 planes will depart from the United States to Ukraine

#Urgent
A senior Pentagon official: These planes will be loaded with military aid, including radar systems, stealth drones, and howitzers.

@alhurra

Reactions: Like Like:
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## oberschlesier

nang2 said:


> It also took Europe 24 hours to report it. Russia gas company reported yesterday already but nobody in the west paid attention.



This is nothing new. Actually Poland has played Russia. The "Gas cut off" was more a PR stunt and a Propaganda move for the Russian public. Reverse( DE -> PL ) on the Yamal pipeline is already hapenning since months.

What hapenned:
1. Russia/Gazprom cut off the Gas supplies to Polish Companies and by this broke the contract, which was in USD.
2. Polish companies can and probably will get compensation from Gazprom for breaking the contract ( Again! ).
3. Long term credibility of Gazprom as provider was damaged as everybody reported it as "Gazprom/Russia cut the Gas" = Russia is not always a serious business partner
4. Polish companies can still get/are getting Gas from Germany in the same volume, if needed.
5. Gazprom can try to blackmail Germany, if they have the balls to do it.

If this was an atempt of a blackmail is rather did not work.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520029716870221824


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520059135894638593

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

Bengal71 said:


> Things are happening fast. If it gets out of control, the whole of Europe could be embroiled in a war and the US will be responsible for it. Good for the rest of the world, the white people have been killing non-whites in their imperialist wars for too long. I hope they fight each other.


Trust me, you don't want a destroyed europe. Where do you think Europeans will go if things get bad? They will come to your country.


----------



## gambit

JackTheRipper said:


> simple question is why allies did not show the body of Osama to media?


At this point, it is irrelevant. We chose not to display bin Laden's body for tactical reasons. We do not care if people believe US or not. If we lied *THEN*, it should be easy for Osama bin Laden and his followers to prove US liar by *NOW*. But enough time has passed. Osama bin Laden is dead.


----------



## Corax

RoadAmerica said:


> Not at all, but apparently you find it amusing or at least condone what is happening on Ukraine.
> 
> So….😭
> 
> 
> I’m very happy in life actually.
> Russia started this, just like America started the second golf war, you can’t have it both ways.



In the same way the likes of you and Madeline Albright condoned the killing of over 500,000 Iraqi children and countless millions in your "intervention" in the Middle East...please go f*** yourself.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
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## nang2

oberschlesier said:


> This is nothing new. Actually Poland has played Russia. The "Gas cut off" was more a PR stunt and a Propaganda move for the Russian public. Reverse( DE -> PL ) on the Yamal pipeline is already hapenning since months.
> 
> What hapenned:
> 1. Russia/Gazprom cut off the Gas supplies to Polish Companies and by this broke the contract, which was in USD.
> 2. Polish companies can and probably will get compensation from Gazprom for breaking the contract ( Again! ).
> 3. Long term credibility of Gazprom as provider was damaged as everybody reported it as "Gazprom/Russia cut the Gas" = Russia is not always a serious business partner
> 4. Polish companies can still get/are getting Gas from Germany in the same volume, if needed.
> 5. Gazprom can try to blackmail Germany, if they have the balls to do it.
> 
> If this was an atempt of a blackmail is rather did not work.


The difference now is that Russia is receiving Ruble as the payment. That is all Russia has asked for. It doesn't matter how natural gas flows around once it has been paid for. Actually it makes pure economic sense. Think about it. After EU and US posted sanction on Russia, what does Russia need Euros and dollars for? It can't spend these currencies.

If Russia really wants to blackmail, it would threaten with gas/oil embargo, like Saudi did in 70s, not just request ruble payment.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## gambit

thetutle said:


> NATO is not being punched.


But we are being annoyingly poked.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519960337465974785

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520007358797148160

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jamal18

gambit said:


> At this point, it is irrelevant. We chose not to display bin Laden's body for tactical reasons. We do not care if people believe US or not. If we lied *THEN*, it should be easy for Osama bin Laden and his followers to prove US liar by *NOW*. But enough time has passed. Osama bin Laden is dead.


Strangely enough, benazir Bhutto said he died of liver failure before being 'killed'.

Also, Iranian intelligence believed he was dead earlier.

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## gambit

JackTheRipper said:


> OK, Throwing dead body in Sea water is usual?


Yes, the practice is called 'burial at sea'. Every sea going culture has it at some points in their histories.


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519835100585680897

Reactions: Love Love:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520029707038867456


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520044453616144385

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520046249944170496

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## Piotr

nang2 said:


> The difference now is that Russia is receiving Ruble as the payment. That is all Russia has asked for. It doesn't matter how natural gas flows around once it has been paid for. Actually it makes pure economic sense. Think about it. After EU and US posted sanction on Russia, what does Russia need Euros and dollars for? It can't spend these currencies.
> 
> If Russia really wants to blackmail, it would threaten with gas/oil embargo, like Saudi did in 70s, not just request ruble payment.



Not only Russia can't spend euros and US dollars. AFAIK Russia can't receive euros and US dollars as well, so "payment" in euros or US dollars mean no payment at all. Brussels and Washington wanted Russia to deliver gas for free.

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## nang2

Piotr said:


> Not only Russia can't spend euros and US dollars. AFAIK Russia can't receive euros and US dollars as well, so "payment" in euros or US dollars mean no payment at all. Brussels and Washington wanted Russia to deliver gas for free.


Exactly. It is kind of funny that Europe wants Russia to honor contracts.

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## RoadAmerica

Corax said:


> In the same way the likes of you and Madeline Albright condoned the killing of over 500,000 Iraqi children and countless millions in your "intervention" in the Middle East...please go f*** yourself.


Ah yes half a million children executed by American troops, what disturbing dream are you living in?


----------



## Piotr

nang2 said:


> Exactly. It is kind of funny that Europe wants Russia to honor contracts.



I think Russia do honor contracts so far. Sanctions imposed by Washington and Brussels were force majeure. So Russia is not violating contracts so far.

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## JackTheRipper

gambit said:


> At this point, it is irrelevant. We chose not to display bin Laden's body for tactical reasons. We do not care if people believe US or not. If we lied *THEN*, it should be easy for Osama bin Laden and his followers to prove US liar by *NOW*. But enough time has passed. Osama bin Laden is dead.



Yes, Osama was dead even before 9/11,
Osama follower accepts US lie, because Osama and his team were US puppet,

Whole War based on 9/11-Osama was fake, 
Benazir said Osama is dead, [before fake osama raid]
Guardian published news Osama dead due to kidney failer and burried in tora bora (but on pressure they removed the link, i think),
His death pictures were borrowed from Black Hawk Down and Photoshop,
US is liar, every war she started based on propaganda, lies, like Iraq War.

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## Avicenna

RoadAmerica said:


> Ah yes half a million children executed by American troops, what disturbing dream are you living in?



Do a little research professor.

Some people on this thread are REALLY something.

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## nang2

Piotr said:


> I think Russia do honor contracts so far. Sanctions imposed by Washington and Brussels were force majeure. So Russia is not violating contracts so far.


Yes, by every business sense.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520035056760336387


----------



## Wood

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519835100585680897


The is surprising. US was not planning to transfer fighters a month ago. Even now, it seems like only parts for MiG have been transferred


----------



## jamal18

RoadAmerica said:


> Ah yes half a million children executed by American troops, what disturbing dream are you living in?


It's true.

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## oberschlesier

nang2 said:


> The difference now is that Russia is receiving Ruble as the payment. That is all Russia has asked for. It doesn't matter how natural gas flows around once it has been paid for. Actually it makes pure economic sense. Think about it. After EU and US posted sanction on Russia, what does Russia need Euros and dollars for? It can't spend these currencies.
> 
> If Russia really wants to blackmail, it would threaten with gas/oil embargo, like Saudi did in 70s, not just request ruble payment.


1. The long term contracts are in USD / EUR not Rubles, you cannot change the currency without renegociating the contracts. Hence the Buyer -> Gazprombank (EUR -> RUB) -> Gazprom schema companies are using. It`s not paying in Rubles.

2. Russia needs to buy medicine or non santioned components with USD / EUR. The sancions are not a trade embargo. Russia is very import dependent.

3. Russia just put a Gas embargo on Poland and broke contracts. This massivelly improved the perception of Russia. The game is to lure Russian to put embargos on other countries and by this force sanction it self


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519979311310286848

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## oberschlesier

Wood said:


> The is surprising. US was not planning to transfer fighters a month ago. Even now, it seems like only parts for MiG have been transferred



No parts or airplanes were transfered. The Ukranians just bought them on amazon. Maybe F-16 will be offer there in the future ?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

oberschlesier said:


> No parts or airplanes were transfered. The Ukranians just bought them on amazon. Maybe F-16 will be offer there in the future ?



F-16 would be slaughtered by Su-57 just like MiG-29 were slaughtered by Su-35.

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## thetutle

Wolfhunter said:


> Well mate you needed the non-Europeans when you were in Afghan. Lets not kid ourselves here and stop being a sanctimonious twat, you will see how stupid you sound. Now if you want to live in your own little bubble that is fine, but with power comes responsibility.
> 
> I served on TELIC in Afghan and let me tell you, we (NATO) owe it to the Afghan people to help them. If you want to carry on with your far-right (eurocentric) bullshite, take it elsewhere.


nato didnt need afghan interpreters, its just that they structured the war in that way. they could have killed people like USSR did. wiped out resistance.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520045318947147776

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## oberschlesier

Tai Hai Chen said:


> F-16 would be slaughtered by Su-57 just like MiG-29 were slaughtered by Su-35.


Maybe, but are the SU-57 even operational ?
Russia still does not have air superiority over Ukraine, so I would be so bold here.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

oberschlesier said:


> Maybe, but are the SU-57 even operational ?
> Russia still does not have air superiority over Ukraine, so I would be so bold here.



They have a few delivered. Not yet a full squadron. But it'll be a while before Ukraine can get F-16. Like at least a few years away.


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

oberschlesier said:


> Maybe,* but are the SU-57 even operational* ?
> Russia still does not have air superiority over Ukraine, so I would be so bold here.


Of course not, the hai Chen dude is on crack as usual, nothing to see here…


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520081131768532994

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520088004513173504

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## thetutle

Corax said:


> if it wasn't for my grandparents fighting in the British armed forces in WWI and WWII along with millions of others from the British empire...you'd be speaking German you twat!


😂😂😂 hehehehhehe, lol. you tell some good jokes, do you write your own stuff?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519930449447038976
A tangible and real victory for the sanctioned Russia so far (when talking about reality and not things that are at stake):

The price of the ruble against the dollar today is 70.74

The ruble price before the war was 80

After the war, it jumped to 148, and it was expected to go up to 180

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519930449447038976



Well, they can't have it. The gas is going to China. Bulgaria is hostile to Russia. So no gas.


----------



## thetutle

Wolfhunter said:


> You keep referring to the UK as a poodle! Do you have no loyalty towards the country you live in?


You cant force people to be loyal or respect your service in the military. As a soldier you're just an extended arm of the political decisions at the time. Often wrong. You service may not have aided your country at all. Look at the Russian soldiers today, is their service helping russia? Should Russians necessarily respect them?
I think those freedoms of thought are something even you would want your citizens to have. I would draw the line at actively aiding the enemy in a material way.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520089411068862465

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520086442613088257


----------



## Viet

Putin seems losing the nerves. He plans general mobilization.

700,000 men will be called in.

Will be a total war.

No longer special military operation bullshit.


----------



## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519979311310286848


Pretty sickening to watch. looked like a young fella. There was some commradarie among them, 2 risked their own lives to move him. under direct fire.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519987961542103040

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## Apollon

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Well, they can't have it. The gas is going to China. Bulgaria is hostile to Russia. So no gas.



Fun fact, the gas is going nowhere since the gas fields are only connected to Europe

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## thetutle

Corax said:


> Those were the loyalties of my ancestors who travelled thousands of miles to fight and defeated the scourge of Nazism,


Can you tell me one thing the Nazis did in 1939 that offended your ancestors so much who travelled such a long way to help defeat them? Was it their invasion of Poland? or something else?


----------



## Apollon

thetutle said:


> Pretty sickening to watch. looked like a young fella. There was some commradarie among them, 2 risked their own lives to move him. under direct fire.



One less who can comitt massacre and crimes. Its war, he was agressor. Sorry but i feel zero compassion

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## thetutle

Corax said:


> Sick minded f***....you find the genocide of millions of Iraqis amusing?!


you dont seem to have a problem with genocide in general, you just favour some groups being genocided over others.

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## Primus

Apollon said:


> One less who can comitt massacre and crimes. Its war, he was agressor. Sorry but i feel zero compassion


And that is why no one likes you


----------



## Apollon

Huffal said:


> And that is why no one likes you



The sun doesnt care what billions of comets in the oort cloud think about her. 

We see what crimes russians do in Ukraine. They chose their fate when they attacked. They can leave any day and be save. Its up to them


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519993799145140224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519967219245060097


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519987497589215233

A launcher with a combat crew of the Ukrainian missile system "Tochka-U" was destroyed near Gorokhovsky in the Mykolaiv region, where yesterday a raid was carried out on residential areas in Kherson - Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519947859617103872


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519907709159628800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519962982905745408


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519962982905745408



Russian armed drone operators are salivating.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519957112914391041

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519952734216245248

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## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520045318947147776


Nukes can flow in another direction. UK has nukes. France has nukes. Germany has nukes. And there are existing missile air defense. New missile at defense coming up.


----------



## Ghost 125

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519979311310286848


courage of these two soldiers staying and coming back for their fallen comrade is admirable. pure soldiery on display.

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## Wolfhunter

thetutle said:


> nato didnt need afghan interpreters, its just that they structured the war in that way. they could have killed people like USSR did. wiped out resistance.


ISAf / NATO doesn’t work that way.

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## Ali_Baba

Ghost of Kyiv 'killed' after shooting down FORTY Russian aircraft


Major Stepan Tarabalka, 29, a father of one, was flying a MiG-29 when it was shot down on March 13 battling 'overwhelming' enemy forces.




www.dailymail.co.uk





A hero who fell fighting Russian nazi’s.

RIP.

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## thetutle

Get Ya Wig Split said:


>


A traffic jam of these planes form Florida. Uncle Sam just letting it hang. 

Let snot forget that these planes are the greatest air superiority fighter ever created by humans. and they are 24 year old technology. First flew 24 years ago. Discontinued production because there is no one to use them on. And there wont be for a long time.


----------



## Wolfhunter

thetutle said:


> You cant force people to be loyal or respect your service in the military. As a soldier you're just an extended arm of the political decisions at the time. Often wrong. You service may not have aided your country at all. Look at the Russian soldiers today, is their service helping russia? Should Russians necessarily respect them?
> I think those freedoms of thought are something even you would want your citizens to have. I would draw the line at actively aiding the enemy in a material way.


If you live in the UK, be loyal to this country or leave. It’s a simple request.



Huffal said:


> And that is why no one likes you


Ignore him - he’s dolally🙃

2 more British nationals have been arrested by Russian Nazis in Ukraine. Russia will go bankrupt fighting this fruitless and aimless war.

By the end all Russia will have left are potatoes and onions.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> A traffic jam of these planes form Florida. Uncle Sam just letting it hang.
> 
> Let snot forget that these planes are the greatest air superiority fighter ever created by humans. and they are 24 year old technology. First flew 24 years ago. Discontinued production because there is no one to use them on. And there wont be for a long time.



F-22 is greatest air superiority ever? J-20 says hold my beer.

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## gambit

Tai Hai Chen said:


> F-22 is greatest air superiority ever? J-20 says hold my beer.


Cannot handle your alcohol, eh?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

gambit said:


> Cannot handle your alcohol, eh?



Come on man. J-20 makes F-22 look like a joke.

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## Wolfhunter

Oh how history repeats itself- we all know Russian soldiers in the Ukraine particularly “affiliated” militia fighters wear “white armbands”.

What some members here won’t know is that the white armband has particular significance dating back to WW2 and the Naiz Einstazgruppen (Death Squads)

Photo 1: Russian militia fighter with white armband 





Lithuanian Nazi Collaborators known as the “White Armbands” known for their brutal mass murder of Jews at the behest of their Nazi Overlords. 






A snippet from Wikipedia:

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## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520021169012887553


Ouch, that fell through the sunroof. This is terrible to watch. Did they survive that in the end? I cant imagine how? This must be very demoralising you train a soldier for years just to be taken out by some kid with a drone.


----------



## gambit

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Come on man. J-20 makes F-22 look like a joke.


Your China did a dumpster dive in Russia's and US's trash bins to come up with the J-20. And here you are telling US that the J-20 is better? That is the real joke.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen




----------



## Wolfhunter

Tai Hai Chen said:


>


These guys are far more organised and integrated than any other Russian soldiers I have seen so far.



thetutle said:


> Ouch, that fell through the sunroof. This is terrible to watch. Did they survive that in the end? I cant imagine how? This must be very demoralising you train a soldier for years just to be taken out by some kid with a drone.


Drones are the future.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520000257647595520


----------



## RescueRanger

thetutle said:


> Ouch, that fell through the sunroof. This is terrible to watch. Did they survive that in the end? I cant imagine how? This must be very demoralising you train a soldier for years just to be taken out by some kid with a drone.


The mighty lada - takes a lickin and keeps on tickin - a bit like my rickety old Casio 😂

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520000257647595520



Yeah. It looks this will take decades. Russia is in no rush.


----------



## Wolfhunter

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Yeah. It looks this will take decades. Russia is in no rush.


Russia will lose in Ukraine.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520058037934952453


----------



## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519951101617111040
> Good grief this is humiliating. I earn more in a half days work.


no you dont understand. This is not dollars, she got rubles and "ruble are not fiat money, they are backed by gold, the most powerful currency in the world"


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Wolfhunter said:


> Russia will lose in Ukraine.



Nope. Ukraine is just a game for Russians. Also, war rejuvenates Russia. Without war, a country decays and rots.


----------



## Wolfhunter

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Nope. Ukraine is just a game for Russians. Also, war rejuvenates Russia. Without war, a country decays and rots.


How did the last war for Russia turn out?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520077783241834496


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Wolfhunter said:


> How did the last war for Russia turn out?



Back then Russia military was junk in the 1980s. Now Russia got high tech gear like armed drones, cruise missiles. Russians can now kill people half way around the world sitting on the couch at home.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520077783241834496



I thought Romania wanted to annex Moldova?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519994641319354368

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## oberschlesier

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Nope. Ukraine is just a game for Russians. Also, war rejuvenates Russia. Without war, a country decays and rots.


So, you think, they have to destroy to reborn again ?
Reforms and leadership rotation to younger generation would be far better.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> Back then Russia military was junk in the 1980s. Now Russia got high tech gear like armed drones, cruise missiles. Russians can now kill people half way around the world sitting on the couch at home.


There was no Russia in 1980s. 

Most of their heavy gear is just modernization of models from 1970s and 1980s.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519994641319354368



To be honest MiG-29 armed with R-27 would just get slaughtered by Su-35 and Su-57 backed by A-50U. R-37 is no joke.









R-37 (missile) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## thetutle

Apollon said:


> One less who can comitt massacre and crimes. Its war, he was agressor. Sorry but i feel zero compassion


that's your German side. I feel terrible watching it. what a way to go, for nothing.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520097333383503872


----------



## Viet

KMW wants to sell 100x long range Panzerhaubitze to Ukraine.







Panzerhaubitze 2000.

(Foto: picture alliance/dpa/dpa-Zentralbild)


----------



## WotTen

RoadAmerica said:


> Well we saw how that worked last month, guess that’s not happening.



Russia has been fighting with one hand tied behind its back to spare civilian infrastructure in most of Ukraine. If Russia decides that it's now or never, with NATO making Ukraine stronger each passing day, it will go medieval on Ukraine and can easily bomb it into rubble. Russia has the same MOAB type bombs that the US used in Afghanistan and they can be delivered by airplanes safely out of reach of Ukrainian defences.

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## oberschlesier

WotTen said:


> Russia has been fighting with one hand tied behind its back to spare civilian infrastructure in most of Ukraine. If Russia decides that it's now or never, with NATO making Ukraine stronger each passing day, it will go medieval on Ukraine and can easily bomb it into rubble. Russia has the same MOAB type bombs that the US used in Afghanistan and they can be delivered by airplanes safely out of reach of Ukrainian defences.


You mean Russia will finally start the war with Ukraine ?


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

Tai Hai Chen said:


> F-22 is greatest air superiority ever? J-20 says hold my beer.


LOL LOL LOL Junk-20 fck outta here


----------



## WotTen

thetutle said:


> NATO is not being punched.



If Russia manages to keep parts of Ukraine, it will be a punch to NATO's credibility as a deterrent. This is not Syria or Africa. This is Europe., albeit by proxy, not direct engagement Defending Europe from Russia is NATO's entire raison d'_être._



oberschlesier said:


> You mean Russia will finally start the war with Ukraine ?



It will use the MOAB-type bombs that it has been holding back because it wants to spare the civilian infrastructure in most of Ukraine. It will make Maruipol the norm across Ukraine.


----------



## nang2

oberschlesier said:


> 1. The long term contracts are in USD / EUR not Rubles, you cannot change the currency without renegociating the contracts. Hence the Buyer -> Gazprombank (EUR -> RUB) -> Gazprom schema companies are using. It`s not paying in Rubles.
> 
> 2. Russia needs to buy medicine or non santioned components with USD / EUR. The sancions are not a trade embargo. Russia is very import dependent.
> 
> 3. Russia just put a Gas embargo on Poland and broke contracts. This massivelly improved the perception of Russia. The game is to lure Russian to put embargos on other countries and by this force sanction it self


Of course you can when the other side literally makes the currency stated in the contract useless. What is the point of making that currency useless to me and then insisting on paying me with it? If you are the seller, think hard on what you should do.


----------



## F-22Raptor

WotTen said:


> Russia has been fighting with one hand tied behind its back to spare civilian infrastructure in most of Ukraine. If Russia decides that it's now or never, with NATO making Ukraine stronger each passing day, it will go medieval on Ukraine and can easily bomb it into rubble. Russia has the same MOAB type bombs that the US used in Afghanistan and they can be delivered by airplanes safely out of reach of Ukrainian defences.



Sparing civilian infrastructure? What war are you watching?

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## PakFactor

F-22Raptor said:


> Sparing civilian infrastructure? What war are you watching?



Compared to what was done in Iraq and elsewhere, Russians have been angels in comparison.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520099739970252803


----------



## Shawnee

thetutle said:


> there aren't many places in the world like this. It was built to produce steel probably after a nuclear war with USA.
> 
> number dont look good for Israel either. but look at it.
> 
> Russia is 140 million but USA, Canada, Australia, UK, EU is 900 milion.
> 
> So even 1,3 billion impoverished Chinese join the fight, Russia is still behind. But china is not as stupid as you think.
> 
> Why not? they want freedom.
> 
> the western world can supply all of the above.
> 
> has anyone asked you or me what we think? no, our governments provide arms to Ukraine regardless of what we think.
> 
> no its not. public opinion is irrelevant in the west in such circumstances,



Why should people trust your word when you say you are Iranic one day and Slavic another day?


----------



## WotTen

F-22Raptor said:


> Sparing civilian infrastructure? What war are you watching?



NATO has been very careful not to give Ukraine offensive weapons that can target Russian cities. That is wise because, if Ukraine hits civilian targets in Russia, it will give Russia the green light to bomb civilians across Ukraine, not just Mariupol. Neither side will care about world opinion or war crimes or anything else.


----------



## oberschlesier

WotTen said:


> If Russia manages to keep parts of Ukraine, it will be a punch to NATO's credibility as a deterrent. This is not Syria or Africa. This is Europe., albeit by proxy, not direct engagement Defending Europe from Russia is NATO's entire raison d'_être._
> 
> 
> 
> It will use the MOAB-type bombs that it has been holding back because it wants to spare the civilian infrastructure in most of Ukraine. It will make Maruipol the norm across Ukraine.



1. "If Russia manages to keep parts of Ukraine" - this would be a huge blow to nuclear non proliferation

2. NATO is charted to defend NATO territory not Ukraine. Look how NATO countries are supporting Ukraine now, which is a neighbour and was a distant candidate country. Now imagine, what would happen if NATO territory is attacked. This situation is making NATO very powerful( look Finland/Sweden )

3. How many of these bombs do they have ? Is it another Propaganda weapon like the SU-57 or Armata Tank? They have good engineers, but lack the industrial potential, technology and money to produce at mass.


----------



## nang2

WotTen said:


> NATO has been very careful not to give Ukraine offensive weapons that can target Russian cities. That is wise because, if Ukraine hits civilian targets in Russia, it will give Russia the green light to bomb civilians in Ukraine. Neither side will care about world opinion or war crimes or anything else.


What are you talking about? Both artillery and attack drones can be used to target Russian cities and have done so.

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## Paul2

Wood said:


> The is surprising. US was not planning to transfer fighters a month ago. Even now, it seems like only parts for MiG have been transferred



This does not preclude another NATO member giving F16s

Although every F16 come to US allies with no transfer condition, I think they will overlook that now.

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## WotTen

nang2 said:


> What are you talking about? Both artillery and attack drones can be used to target Russian cities and have done so.



Drones are only useful on the Ukrainian battlefield. I think Russian air defences inside Russia can easily handle drones. Artillery cannot penetrate too deeply into Russia itself, only a few border areas.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## oberschlesier

nang2 said:


> Of course you can when the other side literally makes the currency stated in the contract useless. What is the point of making that currency useless to me and then insisting on paying me with it? If you are the seller, think hard on what you should do.


Useless ? There is no trade embardo with Russia. 

For Gas trade: A contract is a contract. If you want to change the contract you negociate it. This how you make business in the West. Hence my statement, that Gazprom cease to be reliable business partner.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520100772670803971

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520102393328906240


----------



## Paul2

thetutle said:


> A traffic jam of these planes form Florida. Uncle Sam just letting it hang.
> 
> Let snot forget that these planes are the greatest air superiority fighter ever created by humans. and they are 24 year old technology. First flew 24 years ago. Discontinued production because there is no one to use them on. And there wont be for a long time.



F35 has superior RAMs, it was made when lesson of F22 that RAMs, and supersonic flight are mutually exclusive was learned.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520104017552101377


----------



## nang2

oberschlesier said:


> Useless ? There is no trade embardo with Russia. A contract is a contract. If you want to change the contract you negociate it. This how you make business in the West. Hence my statement, that Gazprom cease to be reliable business partner.


Well, you can see it in anyway you please. Apparently, the attitude you have with it is that I can screw you but you cannot screw me back.

I think Gazprom is perfectly fine. China is working closely with it for new pipelines into China.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520110826207825920


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520117202766213120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520119255093633024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520120209901854721


----------



## WotTen

oberschlesier said:


> 1. "If Russia manages to keep parts of Ukraine" - this would be a huge blow to nuclear non proliferation



I am not sure where nuclear comes into the picture here.



oberschlesier said:


> 2. NATO is charted to defend NATO territory not Ukraine. Look how NATO countries are supporting Ukraine now, which is a neighbour and was a distant candidate country. Now imagine, what would happen if NATO territory is attacked. This situation is making NATO very powerful( look Finland/Sweden )



There is no doubt that Russia is no match for NATO in a conventional war. In nuclear war, there are no winners so it doesn't matter.



oberschlesier said:


> 3. How many of these bombs do they have ? Is it another Propaganda weapon like the SU-57 or Armata Tank? They have good engineers, but lack the industrial potential, technology and money to produce at mass.



How many nukes did the US drop on Japan? It only takes a few instances of mass destruction before the other side surrenders.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520112151012200451


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520050756510167042


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520116178009661444

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520123367680008193


----------



## Elvin

Tai Hai Chen said:


> To be honest MiG-29 armed with R-27 would just get slaughtered by Su-35 and Su-57 backed by A-50U. R-37 is no joke.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> R-37 (missile) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



Depends on the pilot.


----------



## oberschlesier

WotTen said:


> I am not sure where nuclear comes into the picture here.


Ukraine was a nuclear state and probably still has a capability to build an A-weapon. They can argue , that formally the Budapest Memoradum was cancelled. With this many medium States, could second guess their policy.



WotTen said:


> How many nukes did the US drop on Japan? It only takes a few instances of mass destruction before the other side surrenders.


A Thermobaric weapon is not an A-weapon, anyway the Ukrainians seem to be very motivated, and even using an A-weapon would not force a surender

What Russia wants to strategically achieve in this war is still a great mistery to me.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520102107394854914

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520103411135713281


----------



## Type59

Viet said:


> Putin seems losing the nerves. He plans general mobilization.
> 
> 700,000 men will be called in.
> 
> Will be a total war.
> 
> No longer special military operation bullshit.



Wars rarely go to plan. Best option is too go all in.

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## nang2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520123367680008193


Any artillery man here? Is this how to fire a gun? After the gun jumps around, you don't readjust the aim? The only possible case of firing like that seems to be to fire at civilians.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519931241071620096

F-16s for Ukraine?

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## WotTen

oberschlesier said:


> What Russia wants to strategically achieve in this war is still a great mistery to me.



I believe this war was engineered by the US/UK and continental Europe got played. US/UK deliberately sabotaged the growing detente and economic partnership between Europe and Russia.

The Western narrative is that Putin wants to recreate the USSR but, if that were true, he would start with the resource rich CARs. He can swallow them up in a week with minimal resistance.

I find the Russian narrative more credible: that ethnic Russians were being killed in eastern Ukraine and that Zelensky is a US puppet who was planning to join NATO. US did not tolerate Russian missiles in Cuba. Why should Russia tolerate the reverse on its borders? The US/UK pushed NATO eastwards, with the deliberate aim to provoke Russia, and Western Europe was dumb enough to not foresee the consequences.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520128621066829824


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520104933298786304


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520129660834693120


----------



## oberschlesier

WotTen said:


> I believe this war was engineered by the US/UK and continental Europe got played. US/UK deliberately sabotaged the growing detente and economic partnership between Europe and Russia.
> 
> The Western narrative is that Putin wants to recreate the USSR but, if that were true, he would start with the resource rich CARs. He can swallow them up in a week with minimal resistance.
> 
> I find the Russian narrative more credible: that ethnic Russians were being killed in eastern Ukraine and that Zelensky is a US puppet who was planning to join NATO. US did not tolerate Russian missiles in Cuba. Why should Russia tolerate the reverse on its borders? The US/UK pushed NATO eastwards, with the deliberate aim to provoke Russia, and Western Europe was dumb enough to not foresee the consequences.


You don`t see the narrative of the countries in Central-Eastern Europe. Remember, the EU has Western and Eastern Members. The Eastern members have a similar potential to the Russia, if not bigger. The Partnership with Russia will be possible, when Russia really reconciles with the Countries of Central-Eastern Europe and stops it`s imperial ambitions. Russia, due to its bullying policy was seen as a growing threat on the other hand NATO/EU expansion brings stability and wealth. The Ukranians see this in exactly in the same way, you did even have to push any expansion ( aka aggressive NATO ). This is the effect of stupid Russian policy.

btw. Stop mixing USSR with Russia. Cuban missle crisis was with the USSR, Russia did not exist as Country then!


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520114123387908097


----------



## Soldier35

Video of the battle on the borders of Russia and Ukraine near the Sevsky district of the Bryansk region. On the evening of April 25, a Ukrainian group in two cars drove up to the checkpoint and tried to break through into Russia, failing to achieve this, shelling Russian territory from mortars began. The fighters of the Russian army from Tuva suppressed the firing point and destroyed the Ukrainian car with return fire, later a Russian helicopter came to the rescue, the remnants of the Ukrainian soldiers retreated.

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## mmr

thetutle said:


> 😂😂😂 hehehehhehe, lol. you tell some good jokes, do you write your own stuff?


man i laughed my *** off after reading his comment...


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

oberschlesier said:


> 1. The long term contracts are in USD / EUR not Rubles, you cannot change the currency without renegociating the contracts. Hence the Buyer -> Gazprombank (EUR -> RUB) -> Gazprom schema companies are using. It`s not paying in Rubles.
> 
> 2. Russia needs to buy medicine or non santioned components with USD / EUR. The sancions are not a trade embargo. Russia is very import dependent.
> 
> 3. Russia just put a Gas embargo on Poland and broke contracts. This massivelly improved the perception of Russia. The game is to lure Russian to put embargos on other countries and by this force sanction it self



How can Russia honor those "agreements" if EU imposed sanctions on them that they can't use the Euros? It is actually the sanctions that have violated those agreements. Since there is no UN resolution that imposed sanctions on Russia, the sanctions imposed by EU are not enforceable in any court. 

Second, Russia is not a member state in the EU, meaning the EU can't initiate unilateral sanctions on Russia without a UNSC resolution. And since the EU unilaterally initiated these actions any way, then Russia also has the legal means to initiate unilateral actions with respect to those agreements. In essence, by demanding ruble for gas, Russia is alleviating itself from the effects of those unilateral sanctions. 

Finally, if the EU is going to argue that they initiate the sanctions due to the Special Military Operation in Ukraine, the EU didn't get endorsement in the UNSC nor did #ICJ action support the actions of EU. And in conclusion, Russia have the legal justification to alleviate itself from effects either by 1) demanding ruble for gas payments; 2) by stopping delivering gas to EU countries who sanctioned Russia.

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## Ghost 125

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520123367680008193


thats never going on the target...they didnt bother to dig the spades

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## nang2

A very informative interview with a Ukrainian scholar Olga Baysha. Keep in mind that she doesn't approve the current Russian intervention.



https://consortiumnews.com/2022/04/29/ukraine-the-real-zelensky/


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520123773659267073
The reverse effects of those EU sanctions.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520091659492638722

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## The SC

*The Dutch conservative party announces that Zelensky's fortune is estimated at $850 million, raising questions about where he got it from..noting that he did not receive most of this amount until he became President. *

https://english.almayadeen.net/news...erested-in-origin-of-zelenskys-massive-850mln

*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518534232397787138*

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520138203134631939

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520137123537604610

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520078914885935106

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## NotSure

Ali_Baba said:


> Ghost of Kyiv 'killed' after shooting down FORTY Russian aircraft
> 
> 
> Major Stepan Tarabalka, 29, a father of one, was flying a MiG-29 when it was shot down on March 13 battling 'overwhelming' enemy forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A hero who fell fighting Russian nazi’s.
> 
> RIP.


Only FORTY? Not 400 or 4k?

I think the SBU need to raid the dailymail HQ for spreading russian propaganda.



Meanwhile: 



Spoiler: The cannibal of Kiev












Cannibal Ukrainian vlogger thought he was eating a Russian - actually it's a Ukrainian. Oops!


First, please let this be fake. Second, let us pray that all soldiers involved in this conflict, on both sides, are able to receive a proper burial and not end up as dinner. 2022, everyone... Video was shared by Ukrainian accounts allegedly, then…




www.bitchute.com

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520147727367168001

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## oberschlesier

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> How can Russia honor those "agreements" if EU imposed sanctions on them that they can't use the Euros? It is actually the sanctions that have violated those agreements. Since there is no UN resolution that imposed sanctions on Russia, the sanctions imposed by EU are not enforceable in any court.
> 
> Second, Russia is not a member state in the EU, meaning the EU can't initiate unilateral sanctions on Russia without a UNSC resolution. And since the EU unilaterally initiated these actions any way, then Russia also has the legal means to initiate unilateral actions with respect to those agreements. In essence, by demanding ruble for gas, Russia is alleviating itself from the effects of those unilateral sanctions.
> 
> Finally, if the EU is going to argue that they initiate the sanctions due to the Special Military Operation in Ukraine, the EU didn't get endorsement in the UNSC nor did #ICJ action support the actions of EU. And in conclusion, Russia have the legal justification to alleviate itself from effects either by 1) demanding ruble for gas payments; 2) by stopping delivering gas to EU countries who sanctioned Russia.


1. Why then cannot use euros ? The is no trade embargo set on Russia. Only limitation on specific goods. Russia can do the same, but in case of Gas, it does mean they are breaking long term commitments.
2. What specific agrement have the sactions violated?
3. Russia said what they think about the UN when they have shelled Kijow, when Secretary General was there.
4. EU can decide with whom we trade and what, ofc without braking long term commitments.
5. Russian, can request chaning the agrement to the payment in Rubel, but both parties need to agree to this. Otherwise this is a breach of a long term contract by Russia.
6. Generally, from Polish perspective winning a compensation for Gazprom breaking the contract looks very good. Other thing is that the contract was till the end of September, yeah but why Russia would not wait ? Master strategy again.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520082814762422272

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

Strange war..
Europe supports Ukraine and buys Russian gas..
Poland supports Ukraine and has ambitions in Ukraine, which has ambitions and wants to attack Moldova, which is trying to get away from Romania, which has ambitions in Moldova, which suffers from the problem of separatists who have ambitions in the Ukrainian-Moldovan borders, and Russia has ambitions in all these countries, while they all have ambitions in Each other, and they all support Ukraine.. 🤣

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## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520147727367168001


Phillip.... The Ukrainian air force isnt the main reason as to why the RUAF have suffered losses. Its because of the Ukrainian Air Defence units (SAMs/AA). The sams shot them down. Not the air force


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520140092043632642


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

oberschlesier said:


> 1. Why then cannot use euros ? The is no trade embargo set on Russia. Only limitation on specific goods. Russia can do the same, but in case of Gas, it does mean they are breaking long term commitments.
> 2. What specific agrement have the sactions violated?
> 3. Russia said what they think about the UN when they have shelled Kijow, when Secretary General was there.
> 4. EU can decide with whom we trade and what, ofc without braking long term commitments.
> 5. Russian, can request chaning the agrement to the payment in Rubel, but both parties need to agree to this. Otherwise this is a breach of a long term contract by Russia.
> 6. Generally, from Polish perspective winning a compensation for Gazprom breaking the contract looks very good. Other thing is that the contract was till the end of September, yeah but why Russia would not wait ? Master strategy again.



Without going to each question, can you address or at least acknowledge these mere facts:

1. The EU frozen all of the Russian funds that they were holding?
2. These accounts were in Euros?
3. If your responses to the first 2 questions are yes, can you explain how can Russia continue selling gas on Euros if they can't use those funds?

Goodness grief, reason escapes these Anti-Russia EU surrogates.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520096939211173888

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520153157342531589

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520057961095249923

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520088004513173504

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## The SC

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520057961095249923
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520088004513173504


Did you notice this highway near and parallel to the bridge from where the bridge was filmed...!?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> Did you notice this highway parallel to the bridge.. weird..



Yeah I just noticed it, but it doesn't the end of it.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519663095928352768
The reverse effects of EU imposed sanctions on Russia. 

hehehe

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## Apollon

thetutle said:


> that's your German side. I feel terrible watching it. what a way to go, for nothing.



Thats not my german side. Ho and look what they did in Butcha, how they even rape little girls.

He died for trying to steal washing machines,


----------



## The SC

Prisoners of the 79th Brigade tell the truth about their command: “We spent about a week in the trenches, the commanders left to die on the battlefield The enemy forces prevailed significantly - we forced one tank against 30.. We fight "with machine guns against armor".
The Security Intelligence Unit now considers us fugitives only because we survived the units
The officers fled in the cars, leaving the wounded..








Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Yeah I just noticed it, but it doesn't the end of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519663095928352768
> The reverse effects of EU imposed sanctions on Russia.
> 
> hehehe


I mean the Russians can use the highway instead..and repair that bridge if it's important..

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## Apollon

WotTen said:


> Russia has been fighting with one hand tied behind its back to spare civilian infrastructure in most of Ukraine. If Russia decides that it's now or never, with NATO making Ukraine stronger each passing day, it will go medieval on Ukraine and can easily bomb it into rubble. Russia has the same MOAB type bombs that the US used in Afghanistan and they can be delivered by airplanes safely out of reach of Ukrainian defences.



Fun fact, ukraine can do same to russian cities like Belgorod.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> Fun fact, ukraine can do same to russian cities like Belgorod.



If Ukraine Tochkas a Russian city then I'm afraid Kiev will get a low yield nuke as retaliation.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520140092043632642


----------



## Mohsin A

Another Fun Fact. The dogs keep barking, yet the caravan keeps moving on. 
Whilst the US/NATO dogs keep barking and winning the media war, the Russian caravan keeps on rolling and taking more and more Ukrainian territory. The Ukrainian army is surrendering en mass and the establishment is in total disarray. Western leaders are running around like headless chickens trying to find ways of "punishing" Russia, but any step they take comes back to bite them and their countries back in the ***.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## oberschlesier

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Without going to each question, can you address or at least acknowledge these mere facts:
> 
> 1. The EU frozen all of the Russian funds that they were holding?
> 2. These accounts were in Euros?
> 3. If your responses to the first 2 questions are yes, can you explain how can Russia continue selling gas on Euros if they can't use those funds?
> 
> Goodness grief, reason escapes these Anti-Russia EU surrogates.


1,2,3. Not all Russian Assets were frozen, just Central Bank assets to limit funding the war.

The EU( Poland as well btw ) is relatively light with the Sactions. Russia is answering with crazy stuff, like breaking long term contract, which is is a sign of weakness, otherwise, they would just ignore the situation.

btw. you want go to each question, as you don`t fully understand the topic


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520097820950286336


----------



## Apollon

Mohsin A said:


> Another Fun Fact. The dogs keep barking, yet the caravan keeps moving on.
> Whilst the US/NATO dogs keep barking and winning the media war, the Russian caravan keeps on rolling and taking more and more Ukrainian territory. The Ukrainian army is surrendering en mass and the establishment is in total disarray. Western leaders are running around like headless chickens trying to find ways of "punishing" Russia, but any step they take comes back to bite them and their countries back in the ***.




You ignore the fact that Russia is a poor 3rd world country and sinks into the abyss, hass massive losses. Has not gained any land yet and lost 27% of its economy within 4 weeks alone.


Not that the opinion of Iran matters in that anyways. We will call you if we buy some oil.


----------



## oberschlesier

Mohsin A said:


> Another Fun Fact. The dogs keep barking, yet the caravan keeps moving on.
> Whilst the US/NATO dogs keep barking and winning the media war, the Russian caravan keeps on rolling and taking more and more Ukrainian territory. The Ukrainian army is surrendering en mass and the establishment is in total disarray. Western leaders are running around like headless chickens trying to find ways of "punishing" Russia, but any step they take comes back to bite them and their countries back in the ***.


fun fact: Eastern flank of NATO will be massively strengthen. Sweden/Finland will join NATO, Ukraine will get all the weapons they need. Russian strategy is wrong since 2014.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

German energy firm Uniper ready to meet Russian pay demand


Uniper is preparing to buy Russian gas using a payment system that critics say will undermine EU sanctions.



www.bbc.com






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520077594112237571

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## Primus

Apollon said:


> You ignore the fact that Russia is a poor 3rd world country and sinks into the abyss, hass massive losses. Has not gained any land yet and lost 27% of its economy within 4 weeks alone.
> 
> 
> Not that the opinion of Iran matters in that anyways. We will call you if we buy some oil.


Can we get this dude kicked off of this thread? He does nothing but justifies PoW being tortured and killed as well as contributing nothing to the thread. The most he did was regurgitate old videos/news. 

@LeGenD 

This dude is annoying as hell

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Apollon said:


> You ignore the fact that Russia is a poor 3rd world country and sinks into the abyss, hass massive losses. Has not gained any land yet and lost 27% of its economy within 4 weeks alone.
> 
> 
> Not that the opinion of Iran matters in that anyways. We will call you if we buy some oil.




Someone from Greece is calling Russia "a 3rd world country". The irony! 



Huffal said:


> Can we get this dude kicked off of this thread? He does nothing but justifies PoW being tortured and killed as well as contributing nothing to the thread. The most he did was regurgitate old videos/news.
> 
> @LeGenD
> 
> This dude is annoying as hell



I endorse this 100%. Enough with his (or her) retarded comments.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## mmr

Mohsin A said:


> Another Fun Fact. The dogs keep barking, yet the caravan keeps moving on.
> Whilst the US/NATO dogs keep barking and winning the media war, the Russian caravan keeps on rolling and taking more and more Ukrainian territory. The Ukrainian army is surrendering en mass and the establishment is in total disarray. Western leaders are running around like headless chickens trying to find ways of "punishing" Russia, but any step they take comes back to bite them and their countries back in the ***.


only headless chicken is putin lol

thats why he issue warning every day against nato yet usa increase arms supply daily basis

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519734987121123329

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## oberschlesier

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Someone from Greece is calling Russia "a 3rd world country". The irony!


Fun fact: 25% of Russians don`t have a toilet at Home, Comparing to 3% in Poland. Ukraine wants to be more like Poland, than Russia. Simple explanation, why they fighting so hard.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

oberschlesier said:


> Fun fact: 25% of Russians don`t have a toilet at Home.











One in twelve Poles have no bathroom at home finds report on growing poverty amid pandemic


Over two million people in Poland - around 5% of the population - live in extreme poverty, a figure that rose by 400,000 last year.




notesfrompoland.com






Guys, using the poor people as a way to take shots at Russia or any other country is pretty lame. Find something else. You don't use people's misery against them as a way to feel good or ridicule them.

Now, how about this? 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520167210794332160

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## oberschlesier

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> One in twelve Poles have no bathroom at home finds report on growing poverty amid pandemic
> 
> 
> Over two million people in Poland - around 5% of the population - live in extreme poverty, a figure that rose by 400,000 last year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> notesfrompoland.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guys, using the poor people as a way to take shots at Russia or any other country is pretty lame. Find something else. You don't use people's misery against them as a way to feel good or ridicule them.


Sorry I was wrong. 6% don`t have a toilet at home, comparing to 25% in Russia. The quality of live in PL is far higher, than in Russia. In 1990 it was lower. After this Something magic happened ( EU/NATO ) ? That is why the Ukrianins are preffering to escape to Poland, than to Russia.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520166865712173059


----------



## oberschlesier

Huffal said:


> Can we get this dude kicked off of this thread? He does nothing but justifies PoW being tortured and killed as well as contributing nothing to the thread. The most he did was regurgitate old videos/news.
> 
> @LeGenD
> 
> This dude is annoying as hell


Why do you what to kick @Apollon from the forum ? He is, in many cases right. Why do you don`t want to have to have a Central / Eastern European Perspective to this conflict, which is at our borders ? Censorship ? I would rather say you are to be kicked or Mr. "Hssan Al-...", who has no expertise and it`s in a mindless way resending propaganda.

@LeGenD
This guy is the forum admin and he is common sense

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520161657229660160

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520164174189535233


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## That Guy

WotTen said:


> People can read the thread and decide who wrote what when.


Sure. 👍


----------



## Wood

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/uepa72

Russians joining the fight against Russians

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## Flight of falcon

Wood said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/uepa72
> 
> Russians joining the fight against Russians




You mean the whole mini van full of legion ??? Wow this van can accommodate 12 passengers so all twelve will fight against Russia ???

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## mmr

Huffal said:


> Can we get this dude kicked off of this thread? He does nothing but justifies PoW being tortured and killed as well as contributing nothing to the thread. The most he did was regurgitate old videos/news.
> 
> @LeGenD
> 
> This dude is annoying as hell


Should ban the angry Somalian refugees on welfare first lol



Wood said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/uepa72
> 
> Russians joining the fight against Russians


CIA working hard lol


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520181532778016768


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Wood said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/uepa72
> 
> Russians joining the fight against Russians



They already had that in WW2. It's nothing new.









Russian Liberation Army - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520190626645647362

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520189914184396806

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## _Nabil_

oberschlesier said:


> Fun fact: 25% of Russians don`t have a toilet at Home, Comparing to 3% in Poland. Ukraine wants to be more like Poland, than Russia. Simple explanation, why they fighting so hard.


Your statement is Expensive Propaganda


oberschlesier said:


> Cheap propaganda 1.


Replying to you is Cheap propaganda 🤔


mmr said:


> Should ban the angry *Somalian refugees on welfare* first lol


This is Racism or Fascism????

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## F-22Raptor

Industry sources say NGAD will be “orders of magnitiude” harder to detect than even the fifth-generation fighters of today, with the same radar cross section as a BB shot. It will also be stealthier in many different bandwidths, rather than optimized against a few key bands of search-and-track radars. 

In recent months, F-22s, F-35s, and even older F-117s have been spotted and photographed wearing unusual shiny metallic panels; in some case, over the entire aircraft. The Air Force will not disclose the purpose, but it is likely they are testing potential upgrades for fifth-generation fighters or perhaps a new kind of stealth treatment for NGAD.









Piecing Together the NGAD Puzzle | Air & Space Forces Magazine


The Next-Generation Air Dominance family of systems remains highly classified. But some details are beginning to emerge.




www.airforcemag.com






Good night Russia

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520164174189535233





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520189871012421632

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## F-22Raptor

*Russian forces made limited advances west of Severodonetsk on April 29 but remain stalled south of Izyum. *Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine are likely successfully conducting a maneuver defense rather than holding static positions, redeploying mechanized reserves to resist attempted Russian advances. Concentrated Russian artillery is enabling minor Russian advances, but Ukrainian positions remain strong. Limited Ukrainian counterattacks around Kharkiv city may additionally force Russian forces to redeploy units intended for the Izyum axis to hold these positions.





__





Institute for the Study of War


Russian forces made limited advances west of Severodonetsk on April 29 but remain stalled south of Izyum. Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine are likely successfully conducting a maneuver defense rather than holding static positions, redeploying




www.understandingwar.org






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520196936887848962


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

mmr said:


> Should ban the angry Somalian refugees on welfare first lol
> 
> 
> CIA working hard lol



Poor Bangladeshi who doesn't have his opinions but cheerleads others. There is no welfare where I live, but perhaps that is how you earn a living. Besides, I live in my country, so not a refugee. Perhaps that is how you settled in Canada. Say thanks to the people of Canada who afforded you welfare and other amenities since you're a bum who failed to do things for his own.



F-22Raptor said:


> *Russian forces made limited advances west of Severodonetsk on April 29 but remain stalled south of Izyum. *Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine are likely successfully conducting a maneuver defense rather than holding static positions, redeploying mechanized reserves to resist attempted Russian advances. Concentrated Russian artillery is enabling minor Russian advances, but Ukrainian positions remain strong. Limited Ukrainian counterattacks around Kharkiv city may additionally force Russian forces to redeploy units intended for the Izyum axis to hold these positions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Institute for the Study of War
> 
> 
> Russian forces made limited advances west of Severodonetsk on April 29 but remain stalled south of Izyum. Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine are likely successfully conducting a maneuver defense rather than holding static positions, redeploying
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.understandingwar.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520196936887848962





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520189743530655744

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520177880621322240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520184581344960512

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Briefing of the Russian Ministry of Defense (29.04.2022)

◽️ The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue a special military operation in Ukraine.

◽️ High-precision air-launched missiles hit 38 military facilities in Ukraine during the day. Among them: 20 platoon strongholds, 11 areas of concentration of manpower and military equipment, a fuel depot near the village of VOLNOE POLE, a radar station in the PECHENEGI region.

◽️ Operational-tactical and army aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces hit 22 military facilities of Ukraine. Including: five platoon strongholds, 13 areas of concentration of manpower and military equipment, as well as four depots of rocket and artillery weapons and fuel in the settlements of SEVERODONETSK, CHERVONNOE and BELOGORIE.

◽️ During the day, three military facilities of Ukraine were hit by missile forces. Destroyed: in the ADAMOVKA area, the launcher of the Buk-M1 anti-aircraft missile system, as well as the Mi-24 helicopter of the Ukrainian Air Force at the site in the CHUGUEV area.

◽️ Artillery units hit: five command posts, 13 strongholds, 64 areas of concentration of manpower and military equipment, as well as seven artillery positions. As a result of the strikes, over 200 nationalists and 32 units of armored vehicles and vehicles for various purposes were destroyed.

◽️ Russian air defense systems destroyed six Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles over the settlements of ZAVODY, SEMENOVKA, RUBEZHNOE, CHERVONNY OSKOL, DRY KAMIANKA and LYUBIMOVKA. During the day, three Ukrainian Tochka-U missiles were shot down in the air over Izyum, Novaya Dmitrovka, Sukhaya Kamenka, as well as rockets from the Smerch multiple launch rocket system near the settlement of TOPOLSKOE.

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## RoadAmerica

Avicenna said:


> Do a little research professor.
> 
> Some people on this thread are REALLY something.


Please enlighten me with articles and documents showing 500,000 Iraqi children executed by American troops…..I’ll wait


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520196084923985922

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520192935525986310

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520192279482298369

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520191893014941696

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520186705747214336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520185433698684928


----------



## Flight of falcon

RoadAmerica said:


> Please enlighten me with articles and documents showing 500,000 Iraqi children executed by American troops…..I’ll wait




I strongly protest the word execution,…. Americans watched Iraqi kids starve to death and ate popcorn watching them die ….









Iraq Sanctions Kill Children, U.N. Reports (Published 1995)







www.nytimes.com

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## PakAlp

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Nope. Ukraine is just a game for Russians. Also, war rejuvenates Russia. Without war, a country decays and rots.


Then why such a high number of casualties and equipment loss? Please explain


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

PakAlp said:


> Then why such a high number of casualties and equipment loss? Please explain



Birth rate skyrockets during war. That's why in every war human population increases a lot. And also war weeds out the unhealthy and dumb people.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88



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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520154493396078593

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520156168143921153

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## DF41

JackTheRipper said:


> Yes, Osama was dead even before 9/11,
> Osama follower accepts US lie, because Osama and his team were US puppet,
> 
> Whole War based on 9/11-Osama was fake,
> Benazir said Osama is dead, [before fake osama raid]
> Guardian published news Osama dead due to kidney failer and burried in tora bora (but on pressure they removed the link, i think),
> His death pictures were borrowed from Black Hawk Down and Photoshop,
> US is liar, every war she started based on propaganda, lies, like Iraq War.




From believing all USA said, to believing half of all USA said, to now a total disbelief of all USA said in the past and now and into the future.

The way USA tried to smear China with lies on Democracy and Freedom fighters of Hong Kong when we all now know that paid and directed by NED.

The blaming and smearing of China on Covid 19 when we all know that came from Fort Dettrick.

The creation of lies of genocide and slave labout in Xinjiang which was all USA created lies.

The brutal killing of Gaddafi and the ruin of Libya.

The destruction of Iraq and attempted destruction of Syria

The destruction USA carried out in Afghanistan before USA mighty marines and Special Forces with hi tech killing machine being put to flight by a bunch of sheep and goat herders with RPGs and AKs

The whipping of USA in Somalia by a bunch of goat herders and fishermen.

Death of 500,000 kids that Albright said with a straight face and smile on face that she and USA said was worth it 🤮






To the war in Ukraine financed since 2011 and earlier by USA using Nazis to kill Russian speakers that Russia now trying to end the war that started in 2014 directed by USA

So many many many lies we been subjected to by USA and MSM

*NOW A TOTAL DISBELIEF IN EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING SAID BY USA AND THE WEST

USA AND THE WEST THE SOLE SOURCE OF ALL THE EVIL AND WICKEDNESS OF THE WORLD.

I NOW ASSUME EVERYTHING SAID TO BE GOOD BY USA TO BE VERY BAD , AND EVERYTHING SAID TO BE BAD BY USA TO BE VERY GOOD.

RUSSIA JIA YU JIAYU




*

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## SalarHaqq

DF41 said:


> *NOW A TOTAL DISBELIEF IN EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING SAID BY USA AND THE WEST*



I wouldn't believe them even if they exceptionally happened to say something true.



DF41 said:


> *I NOW ASSUME EVERYTHING SAID TO BE GOOD BY USA TO BE VERY BAD , AND EVERYTHING SAID TO BE BAD BY USA TO BE VERY GOOD.*



Imam Khomeini (r.a.) famously explained to Iranian officials, if you want to verify whether a policy decision you made is right or wrong, look at how the US regime and its allies will react to it - if they praise your decision, you know you erred; if it infuriates them, you know you did right.

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## DF41

SalarHaqq said:


> I wouldn't believe them even if they said something true.
> 
> 
> 
> Imam Khomeini (r.a.) famously explained to Iranian officials, if you want to verify whether a policy decision you made is right or wrong, look at how the US regime and its allies will react to it - if they praise your decision, you know you erred; if it infuriates them, you know you did right.

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## DF41

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Come on man. J-20 makes F-22 look like a joke.


F-22 not even good at killing goat herders and sheep herders in Afghan.

Good at killing 500,000 kids with their parents as so directed by Albright with pleasure and smile on her ugly face and uglier heart.

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## thetutle

WotTen said:


> Russia has been fighting with one hand tied behind its back to spare civilian infrastructure in most of Ukraine. If Russia decides that it's now or never, with NATO making Ukraine stronger each passing day, it will go medieval on Ukraine and can easily bomb it into rubble. Russia has the same MOAB type bombs that the US used in Afghanistan and they can be delivered by airplanes safely out of reach of Ukrainian defences.


Cool story bro.


----------



## Avicenna

RoadAmerica said:


> Please enlighten me with articles and documents showing 500,000 Iraqi children executed by American troops…..I’ll wait



Semantics.

Also, I'm not here to spoon feed you.

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## thetutle

Shawnee said:


> Why should people trust your word when you say you are Iranic one day and Slavic another day?


I'm obviously not Iranian. Never been there, dont have relatives there, don't know the language. No plans to ever go there. zero cultural relation to Iran. So I dont know where I said I was Iranian. 

However, I have heard scientist say that all European people originally come from Afghanistan and parts of Iran close to Afghanistan. This is the "aryan theory", and If thats true and I doubt it is, then I am as Iranian as much as any German or Scott or Pole. 

I have also heard that all people on earth come form Africa, And if that's true, then I am also African as much s any other European is. 

So Obviously, I am not Iranian or African even though some scientists claim that all europeans are. I am mainly a slavic person. whose most immediate ancestors are from Bosnia. Commonly referred to as Bosnians. And I say Slavic Bosnian because not all Bosnians are Slavic. We have many (or at least some) Gypsies, Jews, vlachs, Albanians, Turks, Arabs, Germans, Chinese, blacks.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

The US has launched its campaign of *bullshitality* by Russia in the US and Western Media. Their accusation that:-

Eastern Ukraine has now been turned into a giant *CONCENTRATION* camp where folks are brutally tortured, shot and killed at will by occupying Russian Forces. 

I have observe similar tactics applied in their media accusation in Xinjiang. No proof is ever needed. 
They are the *good guys. *Because they say so.

Urging the remaining Ukrainian Soldiers at Azovstal Steetworks to fight to the last man. 

As I have often cited, who is in control of the Ukrainian Military at the helm and is there one? 

Yes. There is and they are not Ukrainian but US and NATO officers. Just like in NATO, the Secretary Jens Stoltenberg is just a stooge, the real commanders are non European. The commander since WW2 is a US General and his deputy, a British General. 

That is why the desperate attempts to save somebody at Azovstal Steelwork and even despatched the UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres to negotiate for their release.

President Putin in his meeting with Guterres said, the innocent civilians are all FREE to go anywhere they like but the militants holding out there must lay down their weapons and surrendered. No compromise.

In media, the US and Western Media shown an old man explaining the destruction of his home. The translation provided never said it was the Russia but if one follows the news report, it is used to point the finger at Russian forces. 

I have seen the same video but the man clearly accused the AZOV battalion. Such are the propaganda by the West. I see similar trickeries in BBC reporting over Xinjiang. Misinterpreting the people own words. Likrwise I have seen similar report in CGTN and it is in fact their documentary that were twisted to suit the US and Western narratives. 

So how can I trust Western News Media again? 

That is why I invented a new word 

*Bullshitality.  *

Meanwhile they did added some truth in between when the Pentagon admitted that Ukrainian Forces are on now the retreat to the South and South West.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Chechens celebrating after kicking the Azov out


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518966775899164674

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## DF41

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Now, how about this? 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520167210794332160




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520167210794332160






They all can be nominated for stupid prize and Darwin Award

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## CAPRICORN-88

*The US Congress has just approved the Lend Lease Act which empowered Biden to despatch more weapons from their own depleted arsenal to Ukraine. *

What does all this means?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520230482977325059

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## CAPRICORN-88

This confirmed my suspicion and question that all these weapons despatched are *not FREE. *

Ukrainian Government is obliged to pay back after the war ended.

This is enough to *BANKRUPT Ukraine.*

This is the US DEBT TRAP.

UK and Soviet Union then later Russia took 60 years after the war to repay its debt due to the Lend Lease Act 1941 to the US back in 2006.

*So will Ukraine be FREE ever again?










Lend-Lease - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org




*

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## CAPRICORN-88

*Zalensky* is now demanding for USD 5 billion a month and needed USD 50 billion urgently from the G7 nations to keep Ukraine afloat. 

Zalensky also asked for USD 600 billion after the war for reconstruction.

Fortunately US Secretary Janet Yallen walk out the G20, this is certainly not a problem for G20 nations. 

Meanwhile Ukrainian AZOV forces destroyed bridges leading to the South to retard Russian Forces advancement. 

All these bridges and infrastructures need to be rebuilt.

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## Apollon

Another mysterious fire, this time in the only big energy plant of Sakhalin....thats in the far east of Russia. The turbine room is on fire. The plant was evacuated. So far Russia tries to keep the remaining turbines running, becauye entire energy net on Sakhalin will collapse if the plant is destroyed. The fire is still not under controle and intensifies.


Here directly from kremlin propaganda Ria Novosti.



https://ria.ru/20220430/pozhar-1786287070.html




Mysterious things happen all over Russia.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520230482977325059


Undoubtedly they are legitimate targets.

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## gambit

I have explained in this thread on why it is not easy to transfer Western jet fighters such as the F-16 to Ukraine because of major design differences that would take the learning curve and time beyond the urgency that Ukraine have for their pilots. Not that Ukrainian pilots cannot learn the differences and make adjustments, but that they will not have the *TIME* to learn.

Here is one testimony of that difference...









For NATO pilots trained to fly MiGs, learning to fly the F-35 'is far too much to grasp,' former F-35 test pilot says


The former F-35 test pilot Billie Flynn told The Aviationist that moving to the "cosmic spaceship" that is the F-35 was too much to ask of MiG pilots.




www.businessinsider.com





"Every part of how we mechanize the aircraft in the West is different from how Russians design their aircraft — every part of philosophy of how you fly an airplane, how you design cockpits, how you process information is different," Flynn told The Aviationist.​​"To say to an F-16 pilot, hey, we're Lockheed Martin, and we build the aircraft the certain way, and switches the certain way, and now we're going to give you the next generation of that, there's a logic flow of our design, of the F-16, as the baseline, that kind of looks like what the F-35 is," Flynn said. "That does not exist for the MiG cadre."​
When I transitioned from the F-111 to the F-16, from centerstick to sidestick, from mechanical to fly-by-wire, it required a mental change. Not impossible, but different people needs different time and training/learning methods. And it is not confined to flyers but includes maintainers. In the end, it would be better off if former Soviet bloc countries give their Soviet era fighters to Ukraine.

But there is an important side issue here. What does it mean for air forces that flies 4th that may face 5th? According to US 'propaganda', the F-22 and F-35 have 10-1 kill ratios in exercises, and those were against line fighters like the F-15 and F-16. Now the F-35 is flying with some NATO air forces.

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## thetutle

oberschlesier said:


> 1. "If Russia manages to keep parts of Ukraine" - this would be a huge blow to nuclear non proliferation


Very good point. It will give any nuclear power the pathway to change borders as it sees fit. This is of course unacceptable. 


oberschlesier said:


> 2. NATO is charted to defend NATO territory not Ukraine. Look how NATO countries are supporting Ukraine now, which is a neighbour and was a distant candidate country. Now imagine, what would happen if NATO territory is attacked. This situation is making NATO very powerful( look Finland/Sweden )


Absolutely. 


WotTen said:


> How many nukes did the US drop on Japan? It only takes a few instances of mass destruction before the other side surrenders.


Japan didnt have any way to reposed to being nuked. Ukraine has nato which said it will repost to a Russian nuke on Ukraine in some capacity. Its safe to assume that such a response will have a deterrent effect. 


WotTen said:


> I believe this war was engineered by the US/UK and continental Europe got played. US/UK deliberately sabotaged the growing detente and economic partnership between Europe and Russia.


You must be a Chinese Australian, who else would have such a strange view on the events. Not even a Russian would say something absurd like that. 


WotTen said:


> The Western narrative is that Putin wants to recreate the USSR but, if that were true, he would start with the resource rich CARs. He can swallow them up in a week with minimal resistance.


He does not want a new USSR. He wants a new imperial russia. CAR's are already under his control to a sufficient degree for now. Of course he will take them in the future if necessary. They now it and are living in fear. And they cant be defended by NATO very well. For this its necessary to have Iran or Afghanistan onside. 


WotTen said:


> I find the Russian narrative more credible: that ethnic Russians were being killed in eastern Ukraine and that Zelensky is a US puppet who was planning to join NATO. US did not tolerate Russian missiles in Cuba. Why should Russia tolerate the reverse on its borders? The US/UK pushed NATO eastwards, with the deliberate aim to provoke Russia, and Western Europe was dumb enough to not foresee the consequences.


NATO is spreading eastwards because those countries fear russia. And tis their choice to join or not. Russians or Russian speakers were not oppressed in Ukraine. Zelinsky is a Russian speaker. 



oberschlesier said:


> Fun fact: 25% of Russians don`t have a toilet at Home, Comparing to 3% in Poland. Ukraine wants to be more like Poland, than Russia. Simple explanation, why they fighting so hard.


You are trying to explain this to a person from a country where 1% of the population have access to a flush toilet. 


CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *The US Congress has just approved the Lend Lease Act which empowered Biden to despatch more weapons from their own depleted arsenal to Ukraine. *
> 
> What does all this means?


You will soon find out.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Zalensky also asked for USD 600 billion after the war for reconstruction.



Do you think the war will ever finish? Ethnic wars like this one never finishes.


----------



## thetutle

Apollon said:


> Another mysterious fire, this time in the only big energy plant of Sakhalin....thats in the far east of Russia. The turbine room is on fire. The plant was evacuated. So far Russia tries to keep the remaining turbines running, becauye entire energy net on Sakhalin will collapse if the plant is destroyed. The fire is still not under controle and intensifies.
> 
> 
> Here directly from kremlin propaganda Ria Novosti.
> 
> 
> 
> https://ria.ru/20220430/pozhar-1786287070.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mysterious things happen all over Russia.


These things are normal and very accidental. They happen all the time. 

Ukraine will pay for this sabotage.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> Russians or Russian speakers were not oppressed in Ukraine. Zelinsky is a Russian speaker.



Speaking a language means nothing. Just because someone speaks English does not make that person ethnic English. It is mother tongue that matters.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

*Either way, Ukrainians will be the eventual loser. *

Now they will lose everything in the post Russia invasion Ukraine. Ukraine will be shattered into many nations just like what happened in Yugoslavia by the US and NATO.
But the debt for the supply of those weapons to US is REAL. The prices of these outdated weapons in US stockpile supplied to Ukraine will be UP TO THEM. Ukrainians have no say whatsoever.

That is why IMO fmr *President Petro Poroshenko and current President Zalensky should be arrested and tried for treason.*

Poroshenko has started integrating his AZOV neo-Nazi followers into the Ukrainian Military beginning in 2014 in coercion with the plan of US Deputy Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and NATO.

The plan was to dilute the support of duly elected President Victor Yanukovych who was illegally ousted in the Maidan revolution.

Victor Yanukovych supporters were mainly from Eastern Ukraine and so the genocidal killing lead by AZOV neo-NAZI battalion began in Donbass.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520230482977325059



Dnipr river is the widest river in Europe. Without bridge it is not possible to cross it. Unless Abrams tanks can swim, I don't see how they can get Abrams tanks to eastern Ukraine without a bridge.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520273445740720128


----------



## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520190626645647362
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520189914184396806


Putin is happy but wait. That’s a temporary jump. At the moment Europeans or Germany in particular import record gas from Russia to fill the reserves.
Germany with 30 percent that is very low reserves, still need months to fill to 100 percent. Depending on the inflow it will take one day for fill one percent.

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## Apollon

thetutle said:


> These things are normal and very accidental. They happen all the time.
> 
> Ukraine will pay for this sabotage.



I heared the sakhalin plant burned because a storm in black sea 🤣😂


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520262746553520128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520255190284206080

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## CAPRICORN-88

China Calls Russia Relationship a‘New Model’for the World​
Foreign Ministry says two nations don’t cause confrontations
U.S. warned China against backing Moscow’s war in Ukraine

Bloomberg News
April 29, 2022, 5:27 PM GMT+8

China stepped up its rhetorical support for Russia, defying the U.S. and other nations who want Beijing to condemn Moscow for the war in Ukraine.

“An important takeaway from the success of China-Russia relations is that the two sides rise above the model of military and political alliance in the Cold War era,” Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said, adding that they “commit themselves to developing a new model of international relations.”

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> China Calls Russia Relationship a‘New Model’for the World​
> Foreign Ministry says two nations don’t cause confrontations
> U.S. warned China against backing Moscow’s war in Ukraine
> 
> Bloomberg News
> April 29, 2022, 5:27 PM GMT+8
> 
> China stepped up its rhetorical support for Russia, defying the U.S. and other nations who want Beijing to condemn Moscow for the war in Ukraine.
> 
> “An important takeaway from the success of China-Russia relations is that the two sides rise above the model of military and political alliance in the Cold War era,” Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said, adding that they “commit themselves to developing a new model of international relations.”



If Russia needs, China can supply AH4 howitzers and 155 mm rounds to Russia via rail. It is to China's advantage to bog down America in Ukraine in a permanent war.

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## Viet

Type59 said:


> Wars rarely go to plan. Best option is too go all in.


Russia has 200,000 men in fighting. That’s too little for a war against a country size of Ukraine.
If Putin makes general mobilization he can add 700,000 men.
Special military operation is over.
I am curious why he will call this war?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520260593218957313

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## CAPRICORN-88

The West’s ‘rules for thee but not for me’​
India’s External Affairs Minister Subrahmanyam Jaishankar artfully exposes the European and American hypocrisy and pointless moral posturing about so-called rules-based liberal international order

SCMP​

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## CAPRICORN-88

The West's ‘rules for thee but not for me’​
India’s External Affairs Minister Subrahmanyam Jaishankar artfully exposes the European and American hypocrisy and pointless moral posturing about so-called rules-based liberal international order

It is Britain’s talking point du jour. Foreign Secretary Liz Truss on Wednesday warned China that “countries must play by the rules. And that includes China.”
That came a day after similar finger-wagging from British chief of defence staff Admiral Tony Radakin. “What China needs to … observe is, when you transgress these international rules, this world order, it leads to all kinds of consequences,” he said.
All this moral posturing is getting tiresome, though they may be forgiven for following the same script as Washington. Of course, those rules were devised by Western powers over the decades, which feel free to break or to enforce them. Serbia, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Yemen; the global war on terror and the war on drugs across Latin America. The hypocrisy is just too glaring and stomach-turning.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Russia has 200,000 men in fighting. That’s too little for a war against a country size of Ukraine.
> If Putin makes general mobilization he can add 700,000 men.
> Special military operation is over.
> I am curious why he will call this war?



Not really. Spanish conquered Latin America with only a few thousands soldiers. It is technology that counts in modern war.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Viet said:


> New model of what? Hunting washing machine, shoes, womenswear? Very regrettable chinese support the war of aggression. It’s better if the government spokesman just shuts the mouth. That’s not their business.


Go home and STOP *trolling*.

This subject is beyond cheerleader.

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## Apollon

Here for all who support russian facism...a ukrainian mother finding the body of her son, who was murdered by russians and thrown into a well.

Watch it and applaud.







And we must remember that people like @Foinikas support this russian crimes. Watch it buddy and tell me where in our beliefs is this supported by god?



Tai Hai Chen said:


> Not really. Spanish conquered Latin America with only a few thousands soldiers. It is technology that counts in modern war.




You obviously dont know history...


The spanish never conquered latin america. The Inka Empire was at a civil war between Atahualpa and Huascar. The spanish conquered areas west of the andes in that regard. Entire Patagonia was not westernized until late in19th century. The entire amazon bassin is still not fully implemented into modern states even today.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520224399449890818

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## CAPRICORN-88

Russian energy giant to quit foreign exchanges​Published: 29 Apr 2022 

Gazprom says it will delist its depository receipts to comply with a new law

Russia’s state-owned gas company Gazprom said on Friday it was delisting its depository receipts from international stock exchanges after the Russian government refused to agree on their further circulation.

According to a statement on the company’s website, holders will have the _“right to convert them into ordinary shares.”_

Gazprom also said it has notified the UK’s Financial Conduct Authority of its intention to cancel standard listing on the London Stock Exchange (LSE). The company has also asked the LSE and the Singapore Exchange to delist its depositary receipts within 20 business days.

Under a new law, the securities of Russian companies can be traded on foreign trading floors only with special permission by Russian authorities.

Last month, LSE blocked trading in 27 Russian corporations, including EN+, Gazprom, Lukoil, Rosneft, and Sberbank. The blacklist was part of Western efforts to cut Russia off from the international financial markets in response to Moscow’s military operation in Ukraine.


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## CAPRICORN-88

Viet said:


> Who troll and cheerleader? I hope you get some rubles from Putin. Or he pays you in dollars from the $1.2 billion budget? The money he spends on propaganda and disinformation per year.




I have repeatedly warned you to
*STOP TROLLING and GO HOME. *

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## PakFactor

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> The West’s ‘rules for thee but not for me’​
> India’s External Affairs Minister Subrahmanyam Jaishankar artfully exposes the European and American hypocrisy and pointless moral posturing about so-called rules-based liberal international order
> ​SCMP​



There is no such thing as a rules-based order it’s a useless term.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Ruble hits two-year high against euro​Published: 29 Apr 2022
The Russian currency also strengthened its position against the dollar, climbing back to pre-conflict levels

The Russian ruble rose to its strongest position since March 2020 against the European single currency, paring some gains after the Bank of Russia cut interest rates.

*On Friday, the ruble hit over 74 to the euro, and headed towards 70 to the dollar in Moscow trade.*
Earlier in the day, the Russian central bank cut its key interest rate to 14% in the latest attempt to boost lending in the sanction-hit economy.

Part of the divergence with the euro may be attributed to a decline in the single currency which has seen a major sell-off this week. The euro is currently hovering around a five-year low against the dollar with fears over the growth outlook for the eurozone as the impacts of Russia-Ukraine conflict begin to spill over.

The Russian currency had previously dropped to historic lows amid sanctions placed on Moscow in response to its military operation in Ukraine. In early March, the ruble plunged to as low as 150 to the dollar but has since nearly doubled in value.

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## Apollon

Germany plans to nationalize the giant ROSNEFT oil raffinery. 










Enteignungspläne für die Rosneft-Raffinerie in Schwedt


Deutschland will unabhängig von russischem Öl werden. Dafür wird jetzt sogar ein verstaubtes Gesetz aus den 70er Jahren aufpoliert.




www.zdf.de

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## CAPRICORN-88

So the impact of Russo-Ukrainian Conflicts is beginning to spill over. 


27 Apr, 2022

Euro crashes to five-year low​Energy uncertainty weakens the European currency


The euro plummeted to a five-year low against the US dollar during Wednesday’s trading, amid heightened fears of a possible energy crisis and an economic slowdown in Europe.

As of 11:01am GMT, the euro/dollar exchange rate was down to $1.061 from the previous closing level of $1.0636. Earlier in the day’s trading, the index fell to $1.0586, dropping below $1.06 for the first time since April 2017.

The euro weakened further after Russian energy giant Gazprom cut off gas supplies to Poland and Bulgaria over their refusal to pay in rubles, leading to uncertainty about the bloc’s energy security.

In March, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced that payments for natural gas supplies to the European Union and other countries that had imposed sanctions on Russia, were to be made in the Russian currency. The new payment mechanism has now been implemented, the Kremlin announced on Tuesday.

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## Thomas

Tai Hai Chen said:


> If Russia needs, China can supply AH4 howitzers and 155 mm rounds to Russia via rail. It is to China's advantage to bog down America in Ukraine in a permanent war.


US is far from bogged down, Ukraine is being supplied by 40+ countries not just the US. And with the exception of some trainers no active combat units in Ukraine. Unless maybe your talking about NATO's plan to establish permanent forward bases in eastern NATO countries now?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> You obviously dont know history...
> 
> 
> The spanish never conquered latin america. The Inka Empire was at a civil war between Atahualpa and Huascar. The spanish conquered areas west of the andes in that regard. Entire Patagonia was not westernized until late in19th century. The entire amazon bassin is still not fully implemented into modern states even today.



Ukraine was in a state of civil war when Russia invaded in February.



Thomas said:


> US is far from bogged down, Ukraine is being supplied by 40+ countries not just the US. And with the exception of some trainers no active combat units in Ukraine. Unless maybe your talking about NATO's plan to establish permanent forward bases in eastern NATO countries now?



Other than the US, the others have very little military hardware. Entire Germany only has a few hundred tanks.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520301337216487425


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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520300377090007040
Ukraine is curb stomping the dog sht outta Russia LOL

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## Clutch

RoadAmerica said:


> Please enlighten me with articles and documents showing 500,000 Iraqi children executed by American troops…..I’ll wait




World News
Sanctions `have killed 500,000 Iraqi children'
By JOHN MULHALL in Baghdad
July 22 2000 12:11 AM

A SENIOR UN official said last night that about half a million children under five had died in Iraq since the imposition of UN sanctions 10 years ago.

Anupama Rao Singh, country director for the UN Children's Fund (UNICEF), said: ``In absolute terms we estimate that perhaps about half a million children under five years of age have died, who ordinarily would not have died had the decline in mortality that was prevalent over the '70s and the '80s continued through the '90s,'' she said.



A UNICEF survey published in August showed the mortality rate among Iraqi children under the age of five had more than doubled in the government-controlled south and centre of Iraq during the sanctions.



Baghdad said the UNICEF survey proved that the sanctions were killing thousands of children every month and called for an immediate end to the embargo.



Iraqi exports of crude oil and products are only allowed under the terms of a UN-authorized oil program, which now permits Baghdad unlimited sales provided that the proceeds go to a UN escrow account and used to buy food, medicine and other urgent needs.

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> And we must remember that people like @Foinikas support this russian crimes. Watch it buddy and tell me where in our beliefs is this supported by god?


Stop your slander. I've told you numerous times that I don't support war crimes and I do not support the invasion. 

But since you are such an advocate of human rights,would you like to see videos of maimed children and mothers burying their babies that were killed by the Ukrainian army back in 2014-2015?

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## Clutch

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Without going to each question, can you address or at least acknowledge these mere facts:
> 
> 1. The EU frozen all of the Russian funds that they were holding?
> 2. These accounts were in Euros?
> 3. If your responses to the first 2 questions are yes, can you explain how can Russia continue selling gas on Euros if they can't use those funds?
> 
> Goodness grief, reason escapes these Anti-Russia EU surrogates.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520096939211173888



So many enemy combatants in Ukraine.... Does Russia have it's version of Guantanamo for some torture and imprisonment?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520289868009512960


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## Clutch

The SC said:


> *The Dutch conservative party announces that Zelensky's fortune is estimated at $850 million, raising questions about where he got it from..noting that he did not receive most of this amount until he became President. *
> 
> https://english.almayadeen.net/news...erested-in-origin-of-zelenskys-massive-850mln
> 
> *
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518534232397787138*



He must have some Pakistani politician blood in him....

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## Clutch

As Ukrainian forces hold off Russian advances, the roar of artillery remains relentless
Apr 29, 2022 6:55 PM EDT
By — Willem Marx
By — Alexis Cox

Transcript
Audio
Desperate attempts to evacuate the besieged city of Mariupol continue Friday, with the United Nations trying to strike a deal with Russia that would allow more than 100,000 civilians to leave the port city. Fighting raged elsewhere in Ukraine's east and in the capital of Kyiv as rescuers took stock of a deadly missile strike that hit as the U.N. secretary general visited. Willem Marx reports.

Read the Full Transcript
Judy Woodruff:

Desperate attempts to evacuate the besieged city of Mariupol continue today, with the United Nations trying to strike a deal with Russian forces that would allow more than 100,000 civilians to leave the port city.

Fighting raged elsewhere in Ukraine's east. And, in the capital of Kyiv, rescuers took stock of a deadly missile strike that hit as the U.N. secretary-general visited last night.

Special correspondent Willem Marx reports.

Biden mourns American killed in Ukraine
By Sam Fossum and Maegan Vazquez, CNN

Updated 4:25 PM ET, Fri April 29, 2022
Willy Joseph Cancel
Willy Joseph Cancel
(CNN)President Joe Biden expressed dismay Friday at the news that an American, Willy Joseph Cancel, was killed while fighting alongside Ukrainian forces.

"It is very sad. He left a little baby behind," Biden told reporters at the White House where he was hosting a meeting of federal inspectors general.
Cancel was killed fighting alongside Ukrainian forces, members of Cancel's family confirmed to CNN. The 22-year-old was working with a private military contracting company when he was killed on April 25. The company sent him to Ukraine, and he was being paid while he was fighting there, Cancel's mother, Rebecca Cabrera, told CNN.
Cancel, a former US Marine, according to his mother, signed up to work for the private military contracting company on top of his full-time job as a corrections officer in Tennessee shortly before the war in Ukraine broke out at the end of February. When the war broke out, the company was searching for contractors to fight in Ukraine and Cancel agreed to go, Cabrera said.
"He wanted to go over because he believed in what Ukraine was fighting for, and he wanted to be a part of it to contain it there so it didn't come here, and that maybe our American soldiers wouldn't have to be involved in it," Cabrera told CNN in a phone interview.
American killed fighting alongside Ukrainian forces in Ukraine
American killed fighting alongside Ukrainian forces in Ukraine

White House press secretary Jen Psaki on Friday offered

Apparently Online Social Media Post can get you arrested and perhaps put to death by the Nazi Ukranian Zelensky Government.

Ukraine cracks down on 'traitors' helping Russian troops

Ukrainian authorities are cracking down on anyone suspected of aiding Russian troops under laws enacted by Ukraine’s parliament and signed by President Volodymyr Zelenskyy after the Feb. 24 invasion
By MSTYSLAV CHERNOV and YURAS KARMANAU Associated Press
29 April 2022, 13:20
• 7 min read
FILE - A man suspected to be a Russian collaborator is detained during an operation by Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) in Kharkiv, Ukraine, Monday, April 18, 2022. Ukrainian authorities are cracking down on anyone suspected of aiding Russian troops
Image IconThe Associated Press
FILE - A man suspected to be a Russian...

KHARKIV, Ukraine -- Viktor appeared nervous as masked Ukrainian security officers in full riot gear, camouflage and weapons pushed into his cluttered apartment in the northern city of Kharkiv. His hands trembled and he tried to cover his face.

The middle-aged man came to the attention of Ukraine’s Security Service, the SBU, after what authorities said were his social media posts praising Russian President Vladimir Putin for “fighting with the Nazis,” calling for regions to secede and labeling the national flag “a symbol of death.”

“Yes, I supported (the Russian invasion of Ukraine) a lot. I’m sorry. … I have already changed my mind," said Viktor, his trembling voice showing clear signs of duress in the presence of the Ukrainian security officers.

“Get your things and get dressed,” an officer said before escorting him out of the apartment. The SBU did not reveal Viktor's last name, citing their investigation.

Viktor was one of nearly 400 people in the Kharkiv region alone who have been detained under anti-collaboration laws enacted quickly by Ukraine's parliament and signed by President Volodymyr Zelenskyy after Russia's Feb. 24 invasion.

Offenders face up to 15 years in prison for collaborating with Russian forces, making public denials about Russian aggression or supporting Moscow. Anyone whose actions result in deaths could face life in prison.

“Accountability for collaboration is inevitable, and whether it will happen tomorrow or the day after tomorrow is another question,” Zelenskyy said. “The most important thing is that justice will be served inevitably.”

Although the Zelenskyy government has broad support, even among many Russian speakers, not all Ukrainians oppose the invasion. Support for Moscow is more common among some Russian-speaking residents of the Donbas, an industrial region in the east. An eight-year conflict there between Moscow-backed separatists and Ukrainian government forces had killed over 14,000 people even before this year’s invasion.

Some businessmen, civic and state officials and members of the military are among those who have gone over to the Russian side, and Ukraine’s State Bureau of Investigations said more than 200 criminal cases on collaboration have been opened. Zelenskyy has even stripped two SBU generals of their rank, accusing them of treason.

A “registry of collaborators” is being compiled and will be released to the public, said Oleksiy Danilov, head of Ukraine’s Security Council. He refused to say how many people were targeted nationwide.

Under martial law, authorities have banned 11 pro-Russian political parties, including the largest one that had 25 seats in the 450-member parliament – the Opposition Platform For Life, which was founded by Viktor Medvedchuk, a jailed oligarch with close ties to Putin.

Authorities say pro-Russian activists in southeastern Ukraine, the scene of active fighting, are acting as spotters to direct shelling.

“One of our key goals is to have no one stab our armed forces in the back,” said Roman Dudin, head of the Kharkiv branch of the SBU, in an interview with The Associated Press. He spoke in a dark basement where the SBU moved its operations after its building in central Kharkiv was shelled.

The Kharkiv branch has been detaining people who support the invasion, call for secession and claim that Ukrainian forces are shelling their own cities.

Allegations of collaborating with the enemy carry strong historic resonance in Ukraine. During World War II, some in the region welcomed and even cooperated with invading forces from Nazi Germany after years of Stalinist repression that included the “Holodomor” – a man-made famine believed to have killed more than 3 million Ukrainians. For years afterward, Soviet authorities cited the cooperation of some Ukrainian nationalists with the Nazis as a reason to demonize today’s democratically elected leaders of Ukraine.

Human rights advocates know of “dozens” of detentions of pro-Russian activists in Kyiv alone since the new laws were passed, but how many have been targeted nationwide is unclear, said Volodymyr Yavorskyy, coordinator at the Center for Civil Liberties, one of Ukraine's largest human rights groups.

“There is no complete data on the (entire) country, since it is all classified by the SBU,” Yavorskyy told AP.

“Ukrainian authorities are actively using the practice of Western countries, in particular the U.K., which imposed harsh restrictions on civic liberties in warring Northern Ireland. Some of those restrictions were deemed unjustified by human rights advocates, but others were justified, when people's lives were in danger,” he said.

A person in Ukraine can be detained for up to 30 days without a court order, he said, and antiterrorism legislation under martial law allows authorities not to tell defense attorneys about their clients being remanded.

“In effect, these people disappear, and for 30 days there's no access to them,” Yavorskyy said. “In reality, (law enforcement) has powers to take anyone.”

The government knows the implications of detaining people over their opinions, including that it risks playing into Moscow's line that Kyiv is repressing Russian speakers. But in wartime, officials say, freedom of speech is only part of the equation.

“The debate about the balance of national security and ensuring freedom of speech is endless,” Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba told AP.

Ravina Shamdasani, a spokeswoman for the U.N. human rights office, said her agency has documented “cases of arrests and detention allegedly made by Ukrainian law enforcement authorities, which may involve elements of human rights violations” and is following up with the Ukrainian government.

She said her office is looking into eight cases that “appear to be disappearances of people considered as ‘pro-Russian,’ and we have documented two cases of unlawful killings of ‘pro-Russians,’” along with cases of vigilantism, in which law enforcement and others punish those suspected of being pro-Russian,

In the town of Bucha, now a symbol of horrific violence in the war, Mayor Anatoly Fedoruk said collaborators gave invading troops the names and addresses of pro-Ukrainian activists and officials in the city outside Kyiv, with hundreds of civilians shot to death with their hands tied behind their backs or their bodies burned by Russian forces.

"I saw these execution lists, dictated by the traitors -– the Russians knew in advance who they’re going to, at what address, and who lives there,” said Fedoruk, who saw his own name on one list. “Of course, Ukrainian authorities will search for and punish these people.”

In the besieged port city of Mariupol, officials accused collaborators of helping the Russians cut off electricity, running water, gas and communications in much of the city.

“Now I understand perfectly why the Russians were carrying out such precise, coordinated strikes on objects of critical infrastructure, knew about all locations and even times when Ukrainian buses evacuating refugees were supposed to depart,” said Mayor Vadym Boychenko.

Political analysts say the invasion and the brutality by Russian troops against civilians have turned off many Moscow sympathizers. Still, many such supporters remain.

“Russian propaganda took deep roots and many residents of the east who watch Russian TV channels believe absurd claims that it’s Ukrainians who are shelling them and other myths,” Volodymyr Fesenko of the Penta Center think tank told AP. “Naturally, Ukrainian authorities in the southeast are afraid of getting stabbed in the back and are forced to tighten security measures.”

Unlike Viktor, whose Kharkiv apartment was raided, 86-year-old Volodymir Radnenko didn’t seem surprised when Ukrainian security arrived to search his flat Saturday after detaining his son, Ihor. The military said the son was suspected of helping the Russians in shelling of the city — some of which occurred in Radnenko's neighborhood about 15 minutes before the officers showed up, with the smell of smoke lingering. At least two people were killed and 19 others wounded in the region.

“He is used to thinking that Russia is all there is,” Radnenko told AP after the officers left. “I ask him: ’So who is shelling us? It’s not our (people), it’s your fascists.’ And he only gets angry at that.”


----------



## Clutch

*Chechen Commander Awarded 'Hero of Russia' for Mariupol Siege*​​




Updated: April 26, 2022


Vladimir Putin has awarded top Chechen politician Adam Delimkhanov the country’s highest honorary title in recognition of his role in the invasion of Ukraine.

Delimkhanov was made Tuesday a Hero of the Russian Federation for his “courage and heroism”.
Delimkhanov led Chechen units fighting in the besieged Ukrainian city of Mariupol, “clearing [the city] from criminal elements block by block,” the head of Chechnya Ramzan Kadyrov wrote on Telegram in March. 

In a video posted earlier this month, Delimkhanov was shown standing in front of a burning building. He told viewers that, “the special operation to destroy and clear Mariupol has been completed.”

Chechen fighters have been on the forefront of Russia’s brutal siege of Mariupol, the de-facto capital of the Ukrainian-held areas of eastern Ukraine's Donetsk region. Multiple sources have also linked Chechen units to war crimes committed in Ukraine. 
Delimkhanov initially gained military experience fighting against Moscow in the Russia-Chechen conflicts of the 1990s. He switched sides during the Second Chechen War, along with Kadyrov. 
In the years since, Delimkhanov has become one of Chechnya’s leading politicians. He has been a deputy in the Russian parliament since 2007. 
Sign up for our free weekly newsletter covering News and Business.
The best of The Moscow Times, delivered to your inbox.

Read more about: Ukraine war , Chechnya

<\/div>\n


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517201197006036992


----------



## Viet

Apollon said:


> Germany plans to nationalize the giant ROSNEFT oil raffinery.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enteignungspläne für die Rosneft-Raffinerie in Schwedt
> 
> 
> Deutschland will unabhängig von russischem Öl werden. Dafür wird jetzt sogar ein verstaubtes Gesetz aus den 70er Jahren aufpoliert.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.zdf.de


That will be a big slap on Putin If Germany nationalizes the refinery. 
When going thru then the oil import from Russia will come to a standstill.


----------



## Shawnee

thetutle said:


> I'm obviously not Iranian. Never been there, dont have relatives there, don't know the language. No plans to ever go there. zero cultural relation to Iran. So I dont know where I said I was Iranian.
> 
> However, I have heard scientist say that all European people originally come from Afghanistan and parts of Iran close to Afghanistan. This is the "aryan theory", and If thats true and I doubt it is, then I am as Iranian as much as any German or Scott or Pole.
> 
> I have also heard that all people on earth come form Africa, And if that's true, then I am also African as much s any other European is.
> 
> So Obviously, I am not Iranian or African even though some scientists claim that all europeans are. I am mainly a slavic person. whose most immediate ancestors are from Bosnia. Commonly referred to as Bosnians. And I say Slavic Bosnian because not all Bosnians are Slavic. We have many (or at least some) Gypsies, Jews, vlachs, Albanians, Turks, Arabs, Germans, Chinese, blacks.



Why did you claim to be Iranic before then? Because you are neither Slavic or Bosnian or Iranian.
You are a Turk.

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## RescueRanger

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519931241071620096
> 
> F-16s for Ukraine?


I wouldn’t get too happy about this because Bulgaria, Poland and Molvoda are still waiting on the next tranch of F16’s - unless there is a lend or lease agreement with US blessing for Ukraine.


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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Stop your slander. I've told you numerous times that I don't support war crimes and I do not support the invasion.
> 
> But since you are such an advocate of human rights,would you like to see videos of maimed children and mothers burying their babies that were killed by the Ukrainian army back in 2014-2015?



Childs killed during russian invasion of 2014 / 2015.


Corrected this for you.

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## RescueRanger

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520224399449890818


Afghanistan all over again.


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## Apollon

RescueRanger said:


> I wouldn’t get too happy about this because Bulgaria, Poland and Molvoda are still waiting on the next tranch of F16’s - unless there is a lend or lease agreement with US blessing for Ukraine.



Priorities


At moment Ukraine needs them the most. Europe is at war and russia must lose on the battlefield. Negotiations wont solve this. 1. Putin is not trustworthy. 2. Putin wants dominate Europe.

The best option is to give russia a crushing defeat in ukraine and for that, jets are needed.

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## RescueRanger

Apollon said:


> Priorities
> 
> 
> At moment Ukraine needs them the most. Europe is at war and russia must lose on the battlefield. Negotiations wont solve this. 1. Putin is not trustworthy. 2. Putin wants dominate Europe.
> 
> The best option is to give russia a crushing defeat in ukraine and for that, jets are needed.


Yes F-16’s would be a game changer - but based on the last embarrassment with the Bulgarian and Polish Mig’s - I’m going to wait for actual video confirmation of F16’s flying over Kyiv before I start getting hopeful.


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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Childs killed during russian invasion of 2014 / 2015.
> 
> 
> Corrected this for you.


Children killed by Ukrainians in Donbass. Wake up! This war isn't black and white.

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Children killed by Ukrainians in Donbass. Wake up! This war isn't black and white.



It is completly black and white. Russia started attacks in 2014, occupied crimea and btw shot down civilian airliner. 

Russia should have been crushed back then. It was merkels weakness that allowed this genocide in Ukraine now. Its never good to solve problems later. 


The core goal is now to cripple russia permanently. It must be done so they can never hurt their neighbors again.


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## RescueRanger

Ghost of Kyiv is dead:





















Identity of Legendary Ukrainian Pilot ‘Ghost of Kyiv’ Revealed by Ukrainian Media - KyivPost - Ukraine's Global Voice


Maj. Stepan Tarabalka, 29, was killed defending Ukraine’s skies on March 13. His feats of… - Apr. 30, 2022. By Kyiv Post




www.kyivpost.com

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## Primus

oberschlesier said:


> Why do you what to kick @Apollon from the forum ? He is, in many cases right. Why do you don`t want to have to have a Central / Eastern European Perspective to this conflict, which is at our borders ? Censorship ? I would rather say you are to be kicked or Mr. "Hssan Al-...", who has no expertise and it`s in a mindless way resending propaganda.
> 
> @LeGenD
> This guy is the forum admin and he is common sense


Because all ive seen him do, is advocate for the Russian PoW to be tortured and killed, repost weeks old footage and derail the thread. Idgaf if someone is giving their views to the conflict. If they want to then so be it, but act like a spurge like apollon, calling for the russian soldiers death and misery and contribute almost nothing relevant to this thread, then he shouldn't be here.

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> It is completly black and white. Russia started attacks in 2014, occupied crimea and btw shot down civilian airliner.
> 
> Russia should have been crushed back then. It was merkels weakness that allowed this genocide in Ukraine now. Its never good to solve problems later.
> 
> 
> The core goal is now to cripple russia permanently. It must be done so they can never hurt their neighbors again.


Pravii Sektor and Svoboda along with other political parties and organizations,took power illegally. 

The pro-Russian populations of Eastern and Southern Ukraine protested against this. 

As Ukrainian forces and ultra-nationalist militias started cracking down the protests and unrest,the Russian Army moved in to retake Crimea and protect the Russian population and bases there. You do remember that Crimea has majority Russian population,right? 

At the same time,the pro-Russian population of Donetsk and Lugansk formed militias of their own.

You have double-standards. You never cared for the children of Donbass when they were bombed by Ukrainian forces and you never cared about the people executed by the neo-nazi militias of Ukraine.

You are like those people who cry for the children of Israelis but don't care about the children of Palestinians,the ones who cry about the children of "moderate rebels" in Syria,but don't care about the beheads of the children of the other side.

You will laugh at the babies of Russian children in Donetsk and Lugansk and you will go nuts about the dead children in Kiev.



RescueRanger said:


> Ghost of Kyiv is dead:
> 
> View attachment 839289
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 839290
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Identity of Legendary Ukrainian Pilot ‘Ghost of Kyiv’ Revealed by Ukrainian Media - KyivPost - Ukraine's Global Voice
> 
> 
> Maj. Stepan Tarabalka, 29, was killed defending Ukraine’s skies on March 13. His feats of… - Apr. 30, 2022. By Kyiv Post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kyivpost.com



Oh if Kyivpost said it,then it must be true.

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## RescueRanger

Reports coming in - not confirmed two more British citizens in Ukraine have been captured by Russian forces.


----------



## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Pravii Sektor and Svoboda along with other political parties and organizations,took power illegally.
> 
> The pro-Russian populations of Eastern and Southern Ukraine protested against this.
> 
> As Ukrainian forces and ultra-nationalist militias started cracking down the protests and unrest,the Russian Army moved in to retake Crimea and protect the Russian population and bases there. You do remember that Crimea has majority Russian population,right?
> 
> At the same time,the pro-Russian population of Donetsk and Lugansk formed militias of their own.
> 
> You have double-standards. You never cared for the children of Donbass when they were bombed by Ukrainian forces and you never cared about the people executed by the neo-nazi militias of Ukraine.
> 
> You are like those people who cry for the children of Israelis but don't care about the children of Palestinians,the ones who cry about the children of "moderate rebels" in Syria,but don't care about the beheads of the children of the other side.
> 
> You will laugh at the babies of Russian children in Donetsk and Lugansk and you will go nuts about the dead children in Kiev.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh if Kyivpost said it,then it must be true.



And you support putinist facist wars and genocide.


And for what? Because you think Putin brings some orthodox empire. 


Absolute crazy. But i dont want hurt your feelings. You Love Russia more than Greece or Europe and now you watch as all your dreams regarding that die off. Must feel bad i guess.

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> And you support putinist facist wars and genocide.


Re malaka niwtheis? Sou exw pei 100 fores oti den ypostirizw ton polemo tou stin Oukrania kai oti den eprepe na eisvallei. 
Sto lew ksana kai ksana kai den katalavaineis. Se poia glwssa 8es na sto pw diladi? Niwse ligo.



Apollon said:


> You Love Russia more than Greece or Europe and now you watch as all your dreams regarding that die off. Must feel bad i guess.


Even if I tell you 100 times that you're wrong on this,you'll keep insisting. I don't know what's wrong with you. Are you repeating this on purpose or are you that dumb to understand me? Are you looking to get banned again?

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## Apollon

Huffal said:


> Because all ive seen him do, is advocate for the Russian PoW to be tortured and killed, repost weeks old footage and derail the thread. Idgaf if someone is giving their views to the conflict. If they want to then so be it, but act like a spurge like apollon, calling for the russian soldiers death and misery and contribute almost nothing relevant to this thread, then he shouldn't be here.



I never supported torture. Im european. Im all for quick and clean death during fight even for enemies and if they surrender they must be arrested. 


Here is good example for that: Ukraine hunts and arrests traitors 






Its good they are shamed in public and arrested. To kill them only helps the enemy.


----------



## Primus

Apollon said:


> I never supported torture. Im european. Im all for quick and clean death during fight even for enemies and if they surrender they must be arrested.
> 
> 
> Here is good example for that: Ukraine hunts and arrests traitors
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its good they are shamed in public and arrested. To kill them only helps the enemy.


Dude, you had an entire thread dedictaed to justifying Ukraine torturing and executing Russian PoW by trying to find a loop hole in the geneva convention

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## RescueRanger

This map was broadcast on 'rossiya-1' TV. It shows that a russian Sarmat based in Kaliningrad can nuke Berlin in 106 seconds, Paris in 200 seconds and London in 202 seconds.







Also… Rehearsal for the May 9th Parade in St. Petersburg - Hitler Vibes in so many ways:

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## Primus

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 839291
> 
> 
> This map was broadcast on 'rossiya-1' TV. It shows that a russian Sarmat based in Kaliningrad can nuke Berlin in 106 seconds, Paris in 200 seconds and London in 202 seconds.
> 
> View attachment 839292
> 
> 
> 
> Also… Rehearsal for the May 9th Parade in St. Petersburg - Hitler Vibes in so many ways:
> 
> View attachment 839293


Ghost of moscow lol

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## Hack-Hook

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Not really. Spanish conquered Latin America with only a few thousands soldiers. It is technology that counts in modern war.


And the belief that your oponnent is your GOD


----------



## Paul2

Viet said:


> Russia has 200,000 men in fighting. That’s too little for a war against a country size of Ukraine.
> If Putin makes general mobilization he can add 700,000 men.
> Special military operation is over.
> I am curious why he will call this war?



What he will arm them with?

Russia lost like half of its relatively decent armour, and the rest is in Ukraine already, or in places from which it will take months to get it.

Or it can send more of its police into action. Russia, just like China, has more, and better trained police force than the regular military.

But again, no armour beside unarmed police APCs.

Ukraine will push entire 2-3 divisions made of territorials being turned into regular troops now, with 2+ armour brigades, with tons of new drones, artillery, air defence, NATO standard infantry kits. The only thing they still really miss is air support, and TBMs.

I bet they are willing to wait 1 month+ to mount a textbook counteroffensive.


Once they will rush through most undermanned directions, they will capture even more Russian armour, AA, and artillery.

The mounting counteroffensive is a matter of time. Fuel caches are already being made near the frontline.

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## Apollon

Huffal said:


> Dude, you had an entire thread dedictaed to justifying Ukraine torturing and executing Russian PoW by trying to find a loop hole in the geneva convention



Nope. I said that Ukraine is not bound to arrest them. If you read the topic i even said i would not encourage it


----------



## Foinikas

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 839291
> 
> 
> This map was broadcast on 'rossiya-1' TV. It shows that a russian Sarmat based in Kaliningrad can nuke Berlin in 106 seconds, Paris in 200 seconds and London in 202 seconds.
> 
> View attachment 839292
> 
> 
> 
> Also… Rehearsal for the May 9th Parade in St. Petersburg - Hitler Vibes in so many ways:
> 
> View attachment 839293


There,I fixed it:

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## Psychiatrist Monica Chib

A big salute to the will of Ukrainians. Infrastructure totally destroyed but they are holding their ground. War atrocities and rape crimes done by Russian forces is condemnable and they should be sentenced to death.


----------



## RescueRanger

Paul2 said:


> What he will arm them with?
> 
> Russia lost like half of its relatively decent armour, and the rest is in Ukraine already, or in places from which it will take months to get it.
> 
> Or it can send more of its police into action. Russia, just like China, has more, and better trained police force than the regular military.
> 
> But again, no armour beside unarmed police APCs.
> 
> Ukraine will push entire 2-3 divisions made of territorials being turned into regular troops now, with 2+ armour brigades, with tons of new drones, artillery, air defence, NATO standard infantry kits. The only thing they still really miss is air support, and TBMs.
> 
> I bet they are willing to wait 1 month+ to mount a textbook counteroffensive.
> 
> 
> Once they will rush through most undermanned directions, they will capture even more Russian armour, AA, and artillery.
> 
> The mounting counteroffensive is a matter of time. Fuel caches are already being made near the frontline.


The West knew about the major chink in Russian tanks and exploited it well. Reminds me of the last Syria/Egypt vs Israeli conflict.


----------



## Primus

Apollon said:


> Nope. I said that Ukraine is not bound to arrest them. If you read the topic i even said i would not encourage it


I read and even commented on the thread you made. You said no where you dont encourage it. You said that russia didnt declare it as a war, hence the Ukrainians are not bound by the geneva convention and are therefore justified to torture and execute their Russian PoWs.

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## Viet

Paul2 said:


> What he will arm them with?
> 
> Russia lost like half of its relatively decent armour, and the rest is in Ukraine already, or in places from which it will take months to get it.
> 
> Or it can send more of its police into action. Russia, just like China, has more, and better trained police force than the regular military.
> 
> But again, no armour beside unarmed police APCs.
> 
> Ukraine will push entire 2-3 divisions made of territorials being turned into regular troops now, with 2+ armour brigades, with tons of new drones, artillery, air defence, NATO standard infantry kits. The only thing they still really miss is air support, and TBMs.
> 
> I bet they are willing to wait 1 month+ to mount a textbook counteroffensive.
> 
> 
> Once they will rush through most undermanned directions, they will capture even more Russian armour, AA, and artillery.
> 
> The mounting counteroffensive is a matter of time. Fuel caches are already being made near the frontline.


Russia has a large military complex Putin will have weapons for them. He has prepared this war since he came to power. 22y ago. Ukraine is in general mobilization. Zelenskki can put 1 million men under weapons. Putin is in crazy mode he will not back down.


----------



## Foinikas

From Ptisi about the Ghost of Kiev propaganda:

*The most impressive? How Tarabalka did more than 40 shootings from the 24th of February when the war broke out until the 13th of March when he was killed. That is, in 18 days he became the biggest "Ace" pilot after the 2nd World. How he managed to shoot down twice as many as the legendary Soviet pilot Nikolai Sutyagin in the Korean War which had 22 "kills" in 13 months. How he managed to shoot down almost five times more than the North Vietnamese Nguyen Van Coc and Mai Van Cuong (9 and 8 kills in two years). How he achieved eightfold victories over the Americans Randall Cunningham / Willy Driscoll who had 5 "Kills" with their Phantom in 5 months. How he managed to beat the Iranian Jalil Zandi, with 11 "Kills" during the Iran-Iraq war. How he did more than double the shooting of the Israeli Giora Epstein, who took 7 years and 3 wars to make 17 "Kills".*

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
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## RescueRanger

Foinikas said:


> From Ptisi about the Ghost of Kiev propaganda:
> 
> *The most impressive? How Tarabalka did more than 40 shootings from the 24th of February when the war broke out until the 13th of March when he was killed. That is, in 18 days he became the biggest "Ace" pilot after the 2nd World. How he managed to shoot down twice as many as the legendary Soviet pilot Nikolai Sutyagin in the Korean War which had 22 "kills" in 13 months. How he managed to shoot down almost five times more than the North Vietnamese Nguyen Van Coc and Mai Van Cuong (9 and 8 kills in two years). How he achieved eightfold victories over the Americans Randall Cunningham / Willy Driscoll who had 5 "Kills" with their Phantom in 5 months. How he managed to beat the Iranian Jalil Zandi, with 11 "Kills" during the Iran-Iraq war. How he did more than double the shooting of the Israeli Giora Epstein, who took 7 years and 3 wars to make 17 "Kills".*


Because propaganda sells!

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## Foinikas

RescueRanger said:


> Because propaganda sells!


Yeah! And both sides are crazy about it!

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## RescueRanger

Foinikas said:


> Yeah! And both sides are crazy about it!


Lol yes. 😂


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520205906172125185

Reactions: Love Love:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520369080271781888


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Briefing by the official representative of the RF Ministry of Defense Igor Konashenkov as of 10.00 April 30, 2022 on the progress of the special operation in Ukraine

The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue a special military operation in Ukraine.

▪️High-precision air-launched missiles hit five Ukrainian military facilities during the night. Among them: four warehouses of ammunition and fuel in the areas of the settlements of Berezovoye, Vozdvizhenka, Pokrovskoye and Barvenkovo, as well as the area of concentration of manpower and military equipment of the nationalists.

▪️Operational-tactical and army aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces hit nine areas of concentration of manpower and Ukrainian military equipment overnight. More than 120 nationalists, four tanks and six armored vehicles were destroyed.

▪️Missile forces hit four military facilities of Ukraine during the night: two command posts of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, a battery of multiple launch rocket systems and a radar station.

▪️ During the night, artillery units defeated 389 enemy targets. Among them: 35 command posts, 41 strongholds, 169 areas of concentration of manpower and military equipment, 33 artillery positions, as well as 15 warehouses of rocket and artillery weapons and ammunition.

▪️Russian air defense systems destroyed 18 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles, including three Bayraktar TB-2s, over the settlements of Gorlovka, Chervony Oskol, Petmanovo, Kramatorsk, Kozinka, Karpovka, Putilovo, Novoakhtyrka, Bezliky Liman and Peremoga.

Also during the night, two Ukrainian missiles of the Smerch multiple launch rocket system were shot down over the settlements of Gorlovka in the Donetsk People's Republic and Snezhkovka in the Kharkov region.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520365840142635010

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520366448752963584


----------



## thetutle

Shawnee said:


> Why did you claim to be Iranic before then? Because you are neither Slavic or Bosnian or Iranian.
> You are a Turk.


There is no way I would say I am Iranian or Iranic. I would have to be very drunk to say that kind of nonsense. I love Erdogan. but I dont speak Turkish, I dont look like the average person I see in Turkey, so if I am Turkish I dont know about it. But there is always a possibility I was cast away by my real Turkish parents and found on the side of the road by a Bosnian family who took me in and raised me. Its always possible.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519945386374356993

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520313940688912384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520313942618390529

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520313946699403265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520313948834353152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520313950453252098

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520313952558895105

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520310450948382720


----------



## Apollon

Huffal said:


> I read and even commented on the thread you made. You said no where you dont encourage it. You said that russia didnt declare it as a war, hence the Ukrainians are not bound by the geneva convention and are therefore justified to torture and execute their Russian PoWs.



Which is exactly how it is. I personal would not do it but ukraine is free to do so


----------



## thetutle

Apollon said:


> I never supported torture. Im european. Im all for quick and clean death during fight even for enemies and if they surrender they must be arrested.
> 
> 
> Here is good example for that: Ukraine hunts and arrests traitors
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its good they are shamed in public and arrested. To kill them only helps the enemy.


Much respect to ukraian police. I didnt think they had time for this. But it seems they do. Its a pity the police in western countries dont do this yet.



RescueRanger said:


> Also… Rehearsal for the May 9th Parade in St. Petersburg - Hitler Vibes in so many ways:
> 
> View attachment 839293


O my goodness. he's totally lost the plot. Those armbands.

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## Primus

Apollon said:


> Which is exactly how it is. I personal would not do it but ukraine is free to do so


I proved u wrong. You are not allowed to mistreat Pow in a war like situation regardless of whether anyone accepts its a war or not

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## mhosein




----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520364382806745088


----------



## Apollon

Huffal said:


> Huffal said:
> 
> 
> 
> I proved u wrong. You are not allowed to mistreat Pow in a war like situation regardless of whether anyone accepts its a war or not
> 
> 
> 
> Thats your opinion. Nice that you shares it.
Click to expand...


----------



## Wood



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## Primus

Wtf thats official stance of the geneva convention regarding pows @Apollon 

Its not my opinion

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## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## Apollon

Huffal said:


> Wtf thats official stance of the geneva convention regarding pows @Apollon
> 
> Its not my opinion



Irregular combatants dont fall under geneva convention 






__





Combatants and POWs | How does law protect in war? - Online casebook







casebook.icrc.org


----------



## Primus

Apollon said:


> Irregular combatants dont fall under geneva convention
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Combatants and POWs | How does law protect in war? - Online casebook
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> casebook.icrc.org


These arent irregular combatants



https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/geneva-convention-relative-treatment-prisoners-war



@Apollon

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## RescueRanger

Apollon said:


> Irregular combatants dont fall under geneva convention
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Combatants and POWs | How does law protect in war? - Online casebook
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> casebook.icrc.org


Except they are not irregular combatants.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520313955209592835

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520313957797580800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520313959924043776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520313962092449792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520314437776912385

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520314440066945024


----------



## Apollon

Huffal said:


> These arent irregular combatants
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/geneva-convention-relative-treatment-prisoners-war
> 
> 
> 
> @Apollon




They are. There is according to Russia no war.. beside that all their gangs inside Ukraine wear different clothes and no regular uniforms. 


As i said its better to arrest them but its up to Ukraine to decide. 


On a sidenote, russian soldiers have become free game in Europe. Its only "group of people" you can call to kill on Facebook and Facebook says thats ok and not breach of guidelines.



RescueRanger said:


> Except they are not irregular combatants.



Thank you for your opinion. Others have a different conclusion


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520314844687253504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520315279410188289

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520359374807576577

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## RescueRanger

Apollon said:


> They are. There is according to Russia no war.. beside that all their gangs inside Ukraine wear different clothes and no regular uniforms.
> 
> 
> As i said its better to arrest them but its up to Ukraine to decide.
> 
> 
> On a sidenote, russian soldiers have become free game in Europe. Its only "group of people" you can call to kill on Facebook and Facebook says thats ok and not breach of guidelines.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for your opinion. Others have a different conclusion


And who are these others ? Please educate yourself on the subject further: 



https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2174&context=jil


----------



## Apollon

RescueRanger said:


> And who are these others ? Please educate yourself on the subject further:
> 
> 
> 
> https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2174&context=jil



European law makers see it different. Ukraine obviously as well.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520387930858168320


----------



## RescueRanger

Apollon said:


> European law makers see it different. Ukraine obviously as well.


Read the article please - this is INTERNATIONAL LAW! Not limited to Europe! Please read the article and kindly submit a rebuttal from a verified academic source on the merits of your proposition.

Although I think you’ll find you will come up short!

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520367060081164296


----------



## Wood

@F-22Raptor is the MVP of this thread. I mostly open the thread to read updates from this poster

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## Apollon

RescueRanger said:


> Read the article please - this is INTERNATIONAL LAW! Not limited to Europe! Please read the article and kindly submit a rebuttal from a verified academic source on the merits of your proposition.
> 
> Although I think you’ll find you will come up short!



Has any court decided yet? No. And only a court can decide over that. Im quite sure no court will take this issue up


----------



## RescueRanger

Apollon said:


> Has any court decided yet? No. And only a court can decide over that. Im quite sure no court will take this issue up


It’s the IHL - I think you are clueless about this. Please kindly read the article before commenting further. 

Either way your knowledge on the subject is highly lacking.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520389150561734658

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## RescueRanger

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520389150561734658









😂

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Another Ukrainian BMP that was destroyed near the village of Staromlinovka


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520120741433421825


----------



## RescueRanger

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Another Ukrainian BMP that was destroyed near the village of Staromlinovka
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520120741433421825


That second video is interesting.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Foinikas

mhosein said:


>


Here @Apollon your democratic friends.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519969913531559936


----------



## Primus

Apollon said:


> They are. There is according to Russia no war.. beside that all their gangs inside Ukraine wear different clothes and no regular uniforms.
> 
> 
> As i said its better to arrest them but its up to Ukraine to decide.
> 
> 
> On a sidenote, russian soldiers have become free game in Europe. Its only "group of people" you can call to kill on Facebook and Facebook says thats ok and not breach of guidelines.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for your opinion. Others have a different conclusion


Holy crap, the geneva convention says that regardless of whether one country or both countries dont recognise the war, the rules of Pow still apply within a WAR LIKE SCENARIO.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Wood said:


> @F-22Raptor is the MVP of this thread. I mostly open the thread to read updates from this poster



Thx!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520393642967552003

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520378155655213056


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520392953100914689

200 M113 APCs being sent to Ukraine


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520377489851392000

Reactions: Like Like:
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## DF41

Clutch said:


> He must have some Pakistani politician blood in him....



*Not necessary.*
*
Zelensky is just a nasty piece of shit.
But then we all know USA love those nasty piece of shit.*
*And waxing lyrical about their goodness like Albright*







I could not read what I am sending to you folks here.
I probably will puke all over my keyboard






So get yourself a bucket if you are prepared to read of how good and how great and holy that dead bitch Albright









Presidents eulogize Madeleine Albright at funeral: ‘Freedom had no greater champion’


US leaders reflected on legacy of US secretary of state as family shared memories at Washington National Cathedral




www.theguardian.com





_Presidents eulogize Madeleine Albright at funeral: ‘Freedom had no greater champion’_​_US leaders reflect on legacy of US secretary of state as family shared memories at Washington National Cathedral




President Joe Biden, former president Barack Obama and former first lady Michelle Obama at funeral of ex-secretary of state Madeleine Albright, Wednesday. Photograph: REX/Shutterstock


Presidents and dignitaries gathered in Washington on Wednesday to remember Madeleine Albright, the first woman to serve as US secretary of state, while drawing upon her life’s work to warn of the increasing precariousness of freedom and democracy.
Family members and colleagues of Albright shared loving and affectionate memories of her during the funeral service at Washington National Cathedral, while US leaders reflected on her legacy.

“Freedom endures against all odds in the face of every aggressor because there are always those who will fight for that freedom,” US president Joe Biden said in his eulogy of Albright, who died of cancer last month at the age of 84. “In the 20th and 21st century, freedom had no greater champion than Madeleine Korbel Albright.”_









WATCH: Madeleine Albright was ‘a force for good in the world,’ Biden says in eulogy


World leaders and Washington's political and foreign policy elite are paying their respects to Madeleine Albright, who was America's first female secretary of state.




www.pbs.org





_ World leaders and U.S. political and foreign policy elite paid their respects Wednesday to the late Madeleine Albright, the child refugee from war-torn Europe who rose to become America’s first female secretary of state.

*Watch Biden’s full remarks in the player above.*

Led by President Joe Biden and former Presidents Barack Obama and Bill Clinton, the man who picked Albright to be his top diplomat and the highest-ranking woman ever in the U.S. government at that time, some 1,400 mourners gathered to celebrate her life and accomplishments at Washington National Cathedral.

*WATCH:* Madeleine Albright’s funeral at the Washington National Cathedral

Albright died of cancer last month at age 84, prompting an outpouring of condolences from around the world that also hailed her support for democracy and human rights. Besides the current and former presidents, the service was attended by at least three of her successors as secretary of state along with other current and former Cabinet members, foreign diplomats, lawmakers and an array of others who knew her.

Biden, who delivered a tribute to Albright, said her name was synonymous with the idea that America is “a force for good in the world.”

“In the 20th and 21st century, freedom had no greater champion than Madeleine Korbel Albright,” Biden said. “Today we honor a truly proud American who made all of us prouder to be Americans.”






*








WATCH: Madeleine Albright was the ‘voice of America at its best,’ former President Clinton says in eulogy


President Bill Clinton honored former Secretary of State Madeleine Abright at her funeral service in Washington by recalling their last conversation, one he says "he will never forget."




www.pbs.org




*_
_WATCH: Madeleine Albright was the ‘voice of America at its best,’ former President Clinton says in eulogy_​_Politics Apr 27, 2022 1:06 PM EDT
President Bill Clinton honored former Secretary of State Madeleine Abright at her funeral service in Washington by recalling their last conversation, one he says “he will never forget.”
*Watch Clinton’s full remarks in the player above.*

_

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## mhosein

Ukrainian soldiers surrendering to Russian Military.





One of two American mercenaries injured when Russian Military destroyed their firing position.





Hitler's book found in Azovstal when Russian forces were clearing out zone by zone.





Capture Azov Nazi, being interrogated for information on civilian count in the complex.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal



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## Apollon

Huffal said:


> Holy crap, the geneva convention says that regardless of whether one country or both countries dont recognise the war, the rules of Pow still apply within a WAR LIKE SCENARIO.



Its up to courts to decide about that.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520377482129588226

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520376423432740864

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## thetutle

Apollon said:


> They are. There is according to Russia no war.. beside that all their gangs inside Ukraine wear different clothes and no regular uniforms.
> 
> As i said its better to arrest them but its up to Ukraine to decide.


Aaaaaah they POW status? but everyone including blind Freddy can see there is no war. 


Apollon said:


> On a sidenote, russian soldiers have become free game in Europe. Its only "group of people" you can call to kill on Facebook and Facebook says thats ok and not breach of guidelines.


Another thing Russians have stolen from the muslims. It used to be only muslims you can do that, but Putin managed to change that.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520392543942451204

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520353058726854656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520346513737715713

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## Primus

Apollon said:


> Its up to courts to decide about that.


Wtf you talking about?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520404160558116864

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RescueRanger

DF41 said:


> *Not necessary.*
> 
> *Zelensky is just a nasty piece of shit.
> But then we all know USA love those nasty piece of shit.*
> *And waxing lyrical about their goodness like Albright*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I could not read what I am sending to you folks here.
> I probably will puke all over my keyboard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So get yourself a bucket if you are prepared to read of how good and how great and holy that dead bitch Albright
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Presidents eulogize Madeleine Albright at funeral: ‘Freedom had no greater champion’
> 
> 
> US leaders reflected on legacy of US secretary of state as family shared memories at Washington National Cathedral
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Presidents eulogize Madeleine Albright at funeral: ‘Freedom had no greater champion’_​_US leaders reflect on legacy of US secretary of state as family shared memories at Washington National Cathedral
> 
> 
> 
> 
> President Joe Biden, former president Barack Obama and former first lady Michelle Obama at funeral of ex-secretary of state Madeleine Albright, Wednesday. Photograph: REX/Shutterstock
> 
> 
> Presidents and dignitaries gathered in Washington on Wednesday to remember Madeleine Albright, the first woman to serve as US secretary of state, while drawing upon her life’s work to warn of the increasing precariousness of freedom and democracy.
> Family members and colleagues of Albright shared loving and affectionate memories of her during the funeral service at Washington National Cathedral, while US leaders reflected on her legacy.
> 
> “Freedom endures against all odds in the face of every aggressor because there are always those who will fight for that freedom,” US president Joe Biden said in his eulogy of Albright, who died of cancer last month at the age of 84. “In the 20th and 21st century, freedom had no greater champion than Madeleine Korbel Albright.”_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WATCH: Madeleine Albright was ‘a force for good in the world,’ Biden says in eulogy
> 
> 
> World leaders and Washington's political and foreign policy elite are paying their respects to Madeleine Albright, who was America's first female secretary of state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pbs.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _ World leaders and U.S. political and foreign policy elite paid their respects Wednesday to the late Madeleine Albright, the child refugee from war-torn Europe who rose to become America’s first female secretary of state.
> 
> *Watch Biden’s full remarks in the player above.*
> 
> Led by President Joe Biden and former Presidents Barack Obama and Bill Clinton, the man who picked Albright to be his top diplomat and the highest-ranking woman ever in the U.S. government at that time, some 1,400 mourners gathered to celebrate her life and accomplishments at Washington National Cathedral.
> 
> *WATCH:* Madeleine Albright’s funeral at the Washington National Cathedral
> 
> Albright died of cancer last month at age 84, prompting an outpouring of condolences from around the world that also hailed her support for democracy and human rights. Besides the current and former presidents, the service was attended by at least three of her successors as secretary of state along with other current and former Cabinet members, foreign diplomats, lawmakers and an array of others who knew her.
> 
> Biden, who delivered a tribute to Albright, said her name was synonymous with the idea that America is “a force for good in the world.”
> 
> “In the 20th and 21st century, freedom had no greater champion than Madeleine Korbel Albright,” Biden said. “Today we honor a truly proud American who made all of us prouder to be Americans.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WATCH: Madeleine Albright was the ‘voice of America at its best,’ former President Clinton says in eulogy
> 
> 
> President Bill Clinton honored former Secretary of State Madeleine Abright at her funeral service in Washington by recalling their last conversation, one he says "he will never forget."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pbs.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *_
> _WATCH: Madeleine Albright was the ‘voice of America at its best,’ former President Clinton says in eulogy_​_Politics Apr 27, 2022 1:06 PM EDT
> President Bill Clinton honored former Secretary of State Madeleine Abright at her funeral service in Washington by recalling their last conversation, one he says “he will never forget.”
> *Watch Clinton’s full remarks in the player above.*_


I’m stealing that gif.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520403121096343552


----------



## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520313955209592835
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520313957797580800
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520313959924043776
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520313962092449792
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520314437776912385
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520314440066945024


Putin propaganda in virtuality has more success than on the ground. The great offensive at Donbas is failing. Russian army makes minimal terrain gain with great losses. Ukraine army defends every inch. The Russians make the same mistake. Last but not least Putin has not enough troops to encircle the Ukraine army. Dvornikov can go to retirement.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520405275525713922
Russian oligarchs are not happy

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520390620161921025

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520389814868193286

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520386723955552259

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520405650492252161

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

The US introduces a plan to sell seized Russian assets then gives the money to Ukraine.
The EU will probably follow suit.









Oligarch's $90M yacht could be sold by US for Ukraine aid


Tango, the 255-foot luxury yacht owned by sanctioned Russian oligarch Viktor Vekselberg, was seized by Spain at request of the US earlier this month.



www.businessinsider.com









The superyacht, "Tango" docked in Marmaris, Mugla, Turkey on April 19, 2014. Levent Kisi/Anadolu Agency/Getty Images


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520405275525713922
> Russian oligarchs are not happy


Some of them along with their families have been killed in European cities for stepping out.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520378671005061121

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## RoadAmerica

WotTen said:


> Russia has been fighting with one hand tied behind its back to spare civilian infrastructure in most of Ukraine. If Russia decides that it's now or never, with NATO making Ukraine stronger each passing day, it will go medieval on Ukraine and can easily bomb it into rubble. Russia has the same MOAB type bombs that the US used in Afghanistan and they can be delivered by airplanes safely out of reach of Ukrainian defences.


Spared civilian infrastructure, you must be kidding.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520392953100914689
> 
> 200 M113 APCs being sent to Ukraine



Waste of fuel and no use. Should have sent 2,000 Abrams tanks.


----------



## retaxis

This is simply continuation of 2014 war which might go on for another decade.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520363840277737472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520351762649022464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520335529014820865

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520364382806745088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520315875865235456

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## Apollon

Huffal said:


> Wtf you talking about?



Guess in your culture is no western justice system? 


Its up to Ukraine how they decide about the law. If a case is brought up to the international court in Hague, the court decides if any law was broken or not.


You can be quite sure that no case will be brought up against any ukrainian soldier.


In short for you: no court decission-> no law broken


----------



## Soldier35

Hollywood actress Angelina Jolie arrived in Ukraine. She was noticed in one of the local cafes in the city of Lviv. Apparently, the actress visited Ukraine as part of a program to help the people of Ukraine together with the UN Ambassador for Refugees.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Primus

Apollon said:


> Guess in your culture is no western justice system?
> 
> 
> Its up to Ukraine how they decide about the law. If a case is brought up to the international court in Hague, the court decides if any law was broken or not.
> 
> 
> You can be quite sure that no case will be brought up against any ukrainian soldier.
> 
> 
> In short for you: no court decission-> no law broken


That is not how it works at all. 

Geneva convention are rules. If you break it, then its broken. Nothing more nothing less. Evidently UKR has been executing its pow. Thats a warcrime. Russia has also committed warcrimes. 

And again you are justifying war crimes. Lol


Apollon said:


> Guess in your culture is no western justice system?


I live in the UK

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## Apollon

Huffal said:


> That is not how it works at all.
> 
> Geneva convention are rules. If you break it, then its broken. Nothing more nothing less. Evidently UKR has been executing its pow. Thats a warcrime. Russia has also committed warcrimes.
> 
> And again you are justifying war crimes. Lol
> 
> I live in the UK



Has any court so far decided that law was broken?


----------



## Piotr

US founded Nazi Azov kill kids. USA must be proud.​Chechen Soldier in Mariupol Recalls Moment Where He Saw Azov Battalion’s True Face​




Translated and subtitled by Leo V.

April 25, 2022

Zaur – Military serviceman of Akhmat-Khadzhi Kadyrov’s Regiment:

It’s possible that before I came here, I doubted [the stories] a little bit. But back then when we freed the first prisoners from the house, which was directly situated nearby the Azovstal’ [factory], when those prisoners and civilians came out from the basements, they hugged and kissed us. And told us that they are happy to see us. They cried with tears in their eyes! I then realized that I ended up exactly for… (holding back emotions) what was needed. And I don’t doubt one drop that it was the right idea.

I remember that moment, that fragment which laid into my head, when we stormed a house where there were a lot of civilians, and many of those very Azov fighters. (Azov is an extremist organization that is banned in the territory of the Russian Federation.) A mother with her child runs outside, and we’re looking through binoculars. We can’t storm, we can’t enter, we can’t do anything. And then they shoot the mother in the spine. The mother falls… and we scream to the child: “RUN!!! RUN!!!” from all sides. The child froze, not understanding what to do. On one hand he wants to run, but on the other he wants to help his mother. And then suddenly his head, get this, this child’s HEAD gets shot by this scum, this evil BEAST. In this very moment, we all just suddenly forgot what death means, we forgot that there could be snipers there, just as a Crowd, Broke In! We threw smoke grenades so that they couldn’t see us. We broke in and just tore up all of them [fighters] that were inside. Well we got in there, but not just got in there. In the sense that people sacrificed their lives. Many soldiers sacrificed their lives in that moment. But we entered and fulfilled our task.

We could care less about our lives when we saw the life of a child being gone. When we realized that these are not people, but are animals, nothing less than beasts, that can allow themselves to… to kill a child. These are not people. Therefore I think that I ended up here exactly for the right reason. And everything that I have done here, I have done for these people who live right here and are smiling and hugging us. They even take the coordinates of where I live, as well as of my other fellow combat comrades, they want to come to our homeland and thank us for the liberation.

http://thesaker.is/chechen-soldier-...oment-where-he-saw-azov-battalions-true-face/

Reactions: Angry Angry:
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## Primus

Apollon said:


> Has any court so far decided that law was broken?


The courts havent been held yet, but the evidence is clear. War crimes have been comitted


----------



## Piotr

People are fed up with USA (comedian Zelensky regime).
They've Had Enough: Mothers And Wives Of AFU Are Rebelling - Won't Let Their Men Die​








They've Had Enough: Mothers And Wives Of AFU Are Rebelling - Won't Let Their Men Die


"04/30/2022 Khust, Zakarpattia region, Ukraine. Another video from the protest of mothers and wives of the local "territorial defense" against the sending of their husbands to the front line."




www.bitchute.com




Khust, Zakarpattia region, Ukraine.
Another video from the protest of mothers and wives of the local "territorial defense" against the sending of their husbands to the front line."

Less and less people are wiling to die for USA (Bandera)

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520236583286460422

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520184220508999683

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520186837100371968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520173628020895744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520194404459364353

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## Apollon

Another one bites the dust. 


Mega yacht Amades did run from Europe to avoid sanctions and now got catched on Fiji islands. 😅 

russian oligarch Kerimov tried evrything to save his 350 million € yacht...all futile 😅👍 










After rushing across the Pacific ocean for 18 days to avoid getting captured, the Fiji police seized the $350 million superyacht Amadea of sanctioned oligarch Suleiman Kerimov. So luxurious is the vessel that the ceiling of the owner's cabin recreate


A few days ago, the $350 million superyacht Amadea belonging to one of Russia's wealthiest oligarchs, was sailing at full speed towards Australia. The




luxurylaunches.com






@Foinikas @Vergennes @F-22Raptor


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520189464445964289

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520204928463089664


----------



## Trango Towers

I am amazed they don't know each shipment coming into Ukraine and are not hitting them on the way to Ukraine...ie as the shipment crosses the border. Satellites are not functioning for Russia???


----------



## Apollon

Trango Towers said:


> I am amazed they don't know each shipment coming into Ukraine and are not hitting them on the way to Ukraine...ie as the shipment crosses the border. Satellites are not functioning for Russia???



Russia has very dysfunctinal space program. It lacks funds and manpower. It appears even heavy equipment like tanks, artillery and so on can not only cross the border into Ukraine easily but also get transported to frintline. Which means Russia obviously has no functional satellite network running.


----------



## RescueRanger

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520392953100914689
> 
> 200 M113 APCs being sent to Ukraine


M113 lovingly referred to as bullet magnets.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520425218522722307

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520428741918445569


----------



## The SC

*How did the most powerful woman in Russia save her country's economy from collapse?*

'Effective technocrat'​Nabiullina is no stranger to crises. She is credited with steering the Russian economy through a series of shocks since taking over as the head of the Central Bank of Russia in 2013, including Western sanctions following the annexation of Crimea.

She was praised for her steely determination to crack down on corruption in the Russian banking sector. Hundreds of banking licenses were withdrawn, including from institutions considered untouchable until then, nearly halving the number of Russian banks to around 500.

As the Russian ruble plummeted against the US dollar in 2014 amid plunging oil prices and crippling Western sanctions, Nabiullina raised the interest rates to 17.5% and transitioned the ruble into a free-floating currency.

Her conservative monetary policy, which helped Russia return to growth and bring down inflation, won her global accolades. Western publications, including _Euromoney_ and _The Banker_, lauded her as one of the world's best monetary policymakers.

"I think Elvira Nabiullina is an effective technocrat, but she is still ultimately a part of the Putin system," said Maximilian Hess, a Russia expert at the Foreign Policy Research Institute in London. "And in the Putin system, a technocrat's job is not primarily to do what's best for the Russian people, but instead to do what's best for the Putin system."







A liberal in Putin's close circle​An ethnic Tatar — the largest minority group in Russia — Nabiullina is a rare female senior official in Moscow. The 58-year-old's father was a chauffeur and her mother worked as a manager in a factory. A lover of French poetry and opera, she graduated in economics from Moscow State University.

Nabiullina became the first woman to head the central bank of a G8 country in 2013, prior to Russia's suspension from the grouping of rich countries following the annexation of Crimea. She previously served as Putin's economic adviser, a job she took up following a stint as economy and trade minister.

"Until now, I think Putin cared that she was respected in the West. He saw her as not motivated by the same kind of rapacious corruption and party interests that existed in much of Russian elite circles," Hess said. "He saw her as somebody competent, who he could appoint to genuinely do the best job in his interest."

Nabiullina is often lauded as an effective communicator for her ability to explain complex macroeconomic concepts in relatively simple language comprehensible even to ordinary Russians.

"Her little wardrobe tricks are part of her communication style; just to make it more understandable for not just the analysts, but also the general public," Orlova said.

At the height of the pandemic in 2020 when the government called on people to self-isolate, Nabiullina wore a house-shaped brooch. That was followed by a pigeon brooch when she announced an interest rate cut to underscore her dovish or easy-policy stance. A brooch in the form of a pause button meant a freeze in rate cuts and a hawk brooch symbolized higher interest rates.

Softly spoken, Nabiullina has long been viewed as a liberal in Moscow's officialdom and is often criticized by hardline government advisers and lawmakers for her policies. But with her decision to remain in office perceptions are changing. She has been sanctioned by Canada and Australia for her close links to the Russian regime.

"Her decision not to quit suggests that she's not as liberal as people thought her to be," Ash said. "In the end, she's helping Putin sustain the war in Ukraine by staying around. Her legacy will be damaged."

A challenging stint for Nabiullina

Nabiullina starts her third five-year term in June, which promises to be the most challenging period yet in her central bank career. The Russian economy hit by several rounds of sanctions is expected to shrink 8.5% this year, according to the International Monetary Fund, the steepest contraction in decades. Inflation has accelerated to the highest level in almost 20 years.

The central bank has responded by raising interest rates and introducing capital controls to artificially prop up the ruble, which fell to record lows against the dollar following the start of the invasion.

Nabiullina, who helped build "Fortress Russia" over the past few years to blunt the impact of Western sanctions, is left having to contend with sanctions that have frozen a large chunk of the central bank's $630 billion (€696 billion) foreign reserves, severely limiting her ability to deal with the economic crisis. Nabiullina's problems could be compounded by further bans on Russian energy — the country's biggest source of revenue — something that is being debated in the European Union, the biggest buyer of Russian energy by far. 

"She is the best person to deal with the current crisis. I wish Russia had someone as competent as her as the president," Orlova said. "She has her work cut out. It will be an extremely challenging period in her career."

https://www.dw.com/en/elvira-nabiul...-to-clean-up-russias-economic-mess/a-61634244


Watch Putin's speech video at the end..


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520446421593477120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520437280133066753

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520425981038804995


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Another one bites the dust.
> 
> 
> Mega yacht Amades did run from Europe to avoid sanctions and now got catched on Fiji islands. 😅
> 
> russian oligarch Kerimov tried evrything to save his 350 million € yacht...all futile 😅👍
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After rushing across the Pacific ocean for 18 days to avoid getting captured, the Fiji police seized the $350 million superyacht Amadea of sanctioned oligarch Suleiman Kerimov. So luxurious is the vessel that the ceiling of the owner's cabin recreate
> 
> 
> A few days ago, the $350 million superyacht Amadea belonging to one of Russia's wealthiest oligarchs, was sailing at full speed towards Australia. The
> 
> 
> 
> 
> luxurylaunches.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Foinikas @Vergennes @F-22Raptor


So?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520432622278742016

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520218557241389056

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520218557241389056



It looks like a Kornet minime.


----------



## The SC

Doomsday plane will fly over Red Square on May 9.

The Il-80 was designed to evacuate the country's top leadership in an all-out nuclear war.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520261986856095744

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jamal18

RescueRanger said:


> M113 lovingly referred to as bullet magnets.


These APC's must be ancient.


----------



## RescueRanger

jamal18 said:


> These APC's must be ancient.


Dates back to the Vietnam war and has seen a lot of battles:









M113 armored personnel carrier - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org

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## The SC

This is the Russian report in light of a complete absence regarding the Ukrainian losses of officers, personnel, equipment and prisoners of war, in addition to the participants, volunteers or foreign soldiers present on the ground in the Western media and all websites, there is nothing certain and what exists and published is just according to Ukrainian, British, American or Polish sources..

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520426319145803776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520423074272792578


----------



## Foinikas

jamal18 said:


> These APC's must be ancient.


They do their job if the enemy only has small weapons. But if they are hit by RPGs or heavy machine guns...they're destroyed.

Israelis suffered many casualties using them in various wars.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520416006279151623

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520401953171415040


----------



## RoadAmerica

Flight of falcon said:


> I strongly protest the word execution,…. Americans watched Iraqi kids starve to death and ate popcorn watching them die ….
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iraq Sanctions Kill Children, U.N. Reports (Published 1995)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com


Hum so not even close to being the same as Russians executing civilians with their hands tied behind their back.
The worlds a tough place, it’s not the wests job to feed it.


----------



## The SC

Urgent: Russian Foreign Ministry: Geneva Treaty on Measures to Increase Reduction and Limitation of Strategic Offensive Arms is no longer acceptable to Moscow

Urgent: Russian Foreign Ministry: The West should look at all the risks in the nuclear field and realize that escalation against Russia is unacceptable

Urgent: Russian Foreign Ministry: The United States, France and Britain are increasingly moving away from the principles of the inadmissibility of conflict between nuclear states

# Urgent http://asharq.com

Urgent | TASS on the Russian Foreign Ministry: The West has chosen the strategy of waging proxy wars against Russia, and this line is fraught with serious consequences

Reactions: Like Like:
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1


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## RoadAmerica

DF41 said:


> From believing all USA said, to believing half of all USA said, to now a total disbelief of all USA said in the past and now and into the future.
> 
> The way USA tried to smear China with lies on Democracy and Freedom fighters of Hong Kong when we all now know that paid and directed by NED.
> 
> The blaming and smearing of China on Covid 19 when we all know that came from Fort Dettrick.
> 
> The creation of lies of genocide and slave labout in Xinjiang which was all USA created lies.
> 
> The brutal killing of Gaddafi and the ruin of Libya.
> 
> The destruction of Iraq and attempted destruction of Syria
> 
> The destruction USA carried out in Afghanistan before USA mighty marines and Special Forces with hi tech killing machine being put to flight by a bunch of sheep and goat herders with RPGs and AKs
> 
> The whipping of USA in Somalia by a bunch of goat herders and fishermen.
> 
> Death of 500,000 kids that Albright said with a straight face and smile on face that she and USA said was worth it 🤮
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To the war in Ukraine financed since 2011 and earlier by USA using Nazis to kill Russian speakers that Russia now trying to end the war that started in 2014 directed by USA
> 
> So many many many lies we been subjected to by USA and MSM
> 
> *NOW A TOTAL DISBELIEF IN EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING SAID BY USA AND THE WEST
> 
> USA AND THE WEST THE SOLE SOURCE OF ALL THE EVIL AND WICKEDNESS OF THE WORLD.
> 
> I NOW ASSUME EVERYTHING SAID TO BE GOOD BY USA TO BE VERY BAD , AND EVERYTHING SAID TO BE BAD BY USA TO BE VERY GOOD.
> 
> RUSSIA JIA YU JIAYU
> 
> View attachment 839258
> *


🤣



DF41 said:


> F-22 not even good at killing goat herders and sheep herders in Afghan.
> 
> Good at killing 500,000 kids with their parents as so directed by Albright with pleasure and smile on her ugly face and uglier heart.


Man you have a hard on for Albright


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520369022084263936

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## kingQamaR

Russians tanks are being misused.Tanks aren’t meant for urban warfare. They’re meant to punch through an enemy line and allow a breakout with your own men.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520309205495918592


----------



## The SC

Al-Arabiya correspondent in Donetsk Raed Al-Agbar: Russian forces are advancing on all axes of Donbass, approaching Mykolaiv and Slaviansk, and shelling Lugansk


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520105741507518466

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520024958851862529






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520396667761143810


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520463695813484545

Reactions: Like Like:
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1


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## RescueRanger

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520463695813484545


Queue the Benny Hill theme music:

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2


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## The SC

Another footage of the defeat of armored vehicles (A BMP-3 in this case) of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation with the help of Javelin anti-tank systems.

Small groups with good weapons are a new page in the military doctrine of our time.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520372194056052737

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520364599098462214


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520464651884298240

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520376614181384194

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## Ghost 125

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520189464445964289
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520204928463089664


*of all the things that never happened, this never happened the most.*... in the whole war Russians have probably lost less thn 40 fixed wing aircraft, and most of that were lost to manpads and ground fire. to think that ukranians with average 5 sorties a day will shoot down 40 and that too by just 1 pilot is ridiculous

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520391882328711168


Ghost 125 said:


> *of all the things that never happened, this never happened the most.*... in the whole war Russians have probably lost less thn 40 fixed wing aircraft, and most of that were lost to manpads and ground fire. to think that ukranians with average 5 sorties a day will shoot down 40 and that too by just 1 pilot is ridiculous


It is not believable and people should also always divide those numbers by 10.. at least..

Reactions: Like Like:
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4


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## Ali_Baba

Ghost 125 said:


> *of all the things that never happened, this never happened the most.*... in the whole war Russians have probably lost less thn 40 fixed wing aircraft, and most of that were lost to manpads and ground fire. to think that ukranians with average 5 sorties a day will shoot down 40 and that too by just 1 pilot is ridiculous




More believable than the propaganda that the Russians are pumping out as facts. Russians "somehow" have shot down more aircraft than what Ukraine had in its inventory at the start of the war and more tanks than Ukraine + donations have ever had - etc .


----------



## Piotr

Zelensky regime (USA) must be proud of him:
Sick Ukrainian Eats Remains of "Russian Soldier" - Later Found To Actually Be Ukrainian Corpse (18+)​The story is this Ukrainian sicko went to a burned out tank and found some 'meat and bone' inside. He cooked and ate it for social media fame, receiving thousands of positive comments from Ukrainian commentators who said Russian soldiers should be 'eaten' more often. However experts analyzed the tank footage and confirmed it to be a Ukrainian T-64, which means he ate his own.


Spoiler: Graphic












Sick Ukrainian Eats Remains of "Russian Soldier" - Later Found To Actually Be Ukrainian Corpse (18+)


The story is this Ukrainian sicko went to a burned out tank and found some 'meat and bone' inside. He cooked and ate it for social media fame, receiving thousands of positive comments from Ukrainian commentators who said Russian soldiers should be '…




www.bitchute.com

Reactions: Wow Wow:
3


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## Ghost 125

Ali_Baba said:


> More believable than the propaganda that the Russians are pumping out as facts. Russians "somehow" have shot down more aircraft than what Ukraine had in its inventory at the start of the war and more tanks than Ukraine + donations have ever had - etc .


i dont care about any propaganda, but this is ridiculous

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Vergennes

Good riddance


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520461780107075585

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
2


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520439128462139392

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520406017162596352

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


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## mhosein

For those who are either deaf, dumb, blind or just ignorant. We stand at the moment of history, where the reign of the Western Empire is coming to an end. It wasn't so long ago (87 years) when the world teetered toward catastrophe, millions died in what ensued thereon. Yet almost a century later, we are standing yet again at the same juncture, where fascism raises its head again. However what we fail miserably as humans to recognize is that not all is what it appears to be. For fascism did not start with Hitler, nor the Jewish question was so straight forward as is told by the Western historians. 

It was fascism when Winston Churchill declared his views on the genocide of Native Americans, where in his words a "higher race, a stronger race" prevailed. Nor was it fascism, when King Leopold of Belgium, the colonial/imperial master of Congo had established a Zoo which put on display Africans for the viewing pleasure of Belgians. Was it also not fascism when the British East India Trading Company (an Anglo-Zionist parasitic organization) extricated India's textile industrial know how, while cutting off the limbs (hands) of the experts that practiced this craft. 

_In 1937, when talking about the treatment of “the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia”, he denied any injustice had been done, saying “a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly-wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place”_.









A List Of Racist Winston Churchill Quotes


Churchill's statue outside the Palace of Westminster in London was defaced last week, which once again drew attention to the leader's views on race.




www.2oceansvibe.com





_The Royal Museum for Central Africa began as a temporary exhibition in 1897 in Tervuren, where Leopold had his country estate. "When Leopold heard they were getting sick because of candy they were eating that was tossed to them by the crowd, he put up an equivalent of a 'Don't Feed the Animals' sign at a zoo, saying, 'the blacks are fed by the organizing committee,'" Hochschild said in a documentary based on his book._










Where 'Human Zoos' Once Stood, A Belgian Museum Now Faces Its Colonial Past


When the Royal Museum for Central Africa reopens, it intends to finally confront a sordid part of Belgium's history — the exploitation led by King Leopold II which killed millions in Congo.




www.npr.org





Read more: https://www.2oceansvibe.com/2020/06/15/a-list-of-racist-winston-churchill-quotes/#ixzz7RxzF5knO

_The British had no mercy for the poor, but talented weavers and they shamelessly engaged in the disdainful act of chopping off their forefathers’ hands in Bengal a generation ago because they demanded reasonable money for their products and did not want to sell them at rock-bottom price and ultimately they lost their livelihood, not to speak of their hands. Further, the British were more keen to dump their textiles in India and discouraged local production of textiles._





__





British atrocities on Indian weavers -Indian holocaust -British Raj


Blog on Indian ancient history, british history, famous indian personalities, indian temples, indian churches, indian mosques, monuments, facts




navrangindia.blogspot.com





So to those ardent zealots that support the West (including Pakistan's very own Army Chief), let me remind you that it is Britain that was the pioneer of LIES, through it's State Broadcasting Propaganda machine (the British Broadcasting Corporation). Be it the deception of luring the Sharif of Makkah - Hussein bin Ali, to revolt against the Ottoman Khilafah, while behind the scenes, the Picot-Sykes duo were prepped for the aftermath of the fall of the Islamic Khilafah. Britain and France then went about dividing the Middle East between themselves. 

_Back in 1915, the British needed the help of the Arabs in defeating the Ottoman Empire in World War I. In a set of letters called the 'McMahon–Hussein Correspondence,' they promised the Arabs that if they rebelled against The Ottoman Empire (which had sided with Germany in the war), that they would get their own independent state (as depicted in the first map above). However, at the very same time the British made this promise, there was clandestine agreement in the works with France and Russia to carve up the Ottoman Empire amongst themselves._





__





BRITISH LIES TO THE ARABS IN WORLD WAR I






www.worldfuturefund.org





Today, the few nations that stand defiant in the face of Western hegemonic fascism, are led by Russia and China. For these countries do not seek to (as they have demonstrated over the last 30 years) a unipolar or bipolar world. Rather they seek a multipolar world where all countries must be treated fairly and not be subjected to unilateral oppression. This is why, when Russia and China opposed the West controlled economic-financial world, the West responded by demonizing the two countries and those who stand with similar views to Russia and China. 

Ukraine is a trap, set up by the Zionist-Anglo-American entity, which seeks to lure Russia and China into a series of wars in order to weaken them. Hey, don't take my word for it, these are the words of American Defense Secretary - Lloyd Austin.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...-austin-is-right-russia-weakened-ukraine-war/ 

Let us make one thing abundantly clear to all, the West does not give a damn about the rest of the world. Their entire global system is set up in such a mechanism which ensures their prosperity, not yours! Be it the IMF (International Monetary Fund), the WB (World Bank), the SWIFT (Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication), the Credit Ratings Agencies (Moody, S&P & Fitch), the Petrodollar and the World Trade Organization. All these organizations were established on the basis to facilitate the dominance of the West (and it's compliant i.e slave, partner nations). These organizations have been used periodically by the West against friend and foe alike. Be it against Japan in the 1990s, or Cuba in the 1950s, against Pakistan in the 1980s, or against Russia, today. 

So the supporters of the West, living in the East, beware of the choices you are making today. For the consequences of your choices, will haunt you till the end of time.

Reactions: Like Like:
5 | Love Love:
2


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520421174823563264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520429646843625477


----------



## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> Good riddance
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520461780107075585



Wow - that is a big loss - major general...


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520451351985197056
Tucker can start a nightly show in Russia


----------



## Piotr

​


mhosein said:


> For those who are either deaf, dumb, blind or just ignorant. We stand at the moment of history, where the reign of the Western Empire is coming to an end. It wasn't so long ago (87 years) when the world teetered toward catastrophe, millions died in what ensued thereon. Yet almost a century later, we are standing yet again at the same juncture, where fascism raises its head again. However what we fail miserably as humans to recognize is that not all is what it appears to be. For fascism did not start with Hitler, nor the Jewish question was so straight forward as is told by the Western historians.
> 
> It was fascism when Winston Churchill declared his views on the genocide of Native Americans, where in his words a "higher race, a stronger race" prevailed. Nor was it fascism, when King Leopold of Belgium, the colonial/imperial master of Congo had established a Zoo which put on display Africans for the viewing pleasure of Belgians. Was it also not fascism when the British East India Trading Company (an Anglo-Zionist parasitic organization) extricated India's textile industrial know how, while cutting off the limbs (hands) of the experts that practiced this craft.
> 
> _In 1937, when talking about the treatment of “the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia”, he denied any injustice had been done, saying “a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly-wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place”_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A List Of Racist Winston Churchill Quotes
> 
> 
> Churchill's statue outside the Palace of Westminster in London was defaced last week, which once again drew attention to the leader's views on race.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.2oceansvibe.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _The Royal Museum for Central Africa began as a temporary exhibition in 1897 in Tervuren, where Leopold had his country estate. "When Leopold heard they were getting sick because of candy they were eating that was tossed to them by the crowd, he put up an equivalent of a 'Don't Feed the Animals' sign at a zoo, saying, 'the blacks are fed by the organizing committee,'" Hochschild said in a documentary based on his book._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where 'Human Zoos' Once Stood, A Belgian Museum Now Faces Its Colonial Past
> 
> 
> When the Royal Museum for Central Africa reopens, it intends to finally confront a sordid part of Belgium's history — the exploitation led by King Leopold II which killed millions in Congo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.npr.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: https://www.2oceansvibe.com/2020/06/15/a-list-of-racist-winston-churchill-quotes/#ixzz7RxzF5knO
> 
> _The British had no mercy for the poor, but talented weavers and they shamelessly engaged in the disdainful act of chopping off their forefathers’ hands in Bengal a generation ago because they demanded reasonable money for their products and did not want to sell them at rock-bottom price and ultimately they lost their livelihood, not to speak of their hands. Further, the British were more keen to dump their textiles in India and discouraged local production of textiles._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> British atrocities on Indian weavers -Indian holocaust -British Raj
> 
> 
> Blog on Indian ancient history, british history, famous indian personalities, indian temples, indian churches, indian mosques, monuments, facts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> navrangindia.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So to those ardent zealots that support the West (including Pakistan's very own Army Chief), let me remind you that it is Britain that was the pioneer of LIES, through it's State Broadcasting Propaganda machine (the British Broadcasting Corporation). Be it the deception of luring the Sharif of Makkah - Hussein bin Ali, to revolt against the Ottoman Khilafah, while behind the scenes, the Picot-Sykes duo were prepped for the aftermath of the fall of the Islamic Khilafah. Britain and France then went about dividing the Middle East between themselves.
> 
> _Back in 1915, the British needed the help of the Arabs in defeating the Ottoman Empire in World War I. In a set of letters called the 'McMahon–Hussein Correspondence,' they promised the Arabs that if they rebelled against The Ottoman Empire (which had sided with Germany in the war), that they would get their own independent state (as depicted in the first map above). However, at the very same time the British made this promise, there was clandestine agreement in the works with France and Russia to carve up the Ottoman Empire amongst themselves._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BRITISH LIES TO THE ARABS IN WORLD WAR I
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldfuturefund.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Today, the few nations that stand defiant in the face of Western hegemonic fascism, are led by Russia and China. For these countries do not seek to (as they have demonstrated over the last 30 years) a unipolar or bipolar world. Rather they seek a multipolar world where all countries must be treated fairly and not be subjected to unilateral oppression. This is why, when Russia and China opposed the West controlled economic-financial world, the West responded by demonizing the two countries and those who stand with similar views to Russia and China.
> 
> Ukraine is a trap, set up by the Zionist-Anglo-American entity, which seeks to lure Russia and China into a series of wars in order to weaken them. Hey, don't take my word for it, these are the words of American Defense Secretary - Lloyd Austin.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...-austin-is-right-russia-weakened-ukraine-war/
> 
> Let us make one thing abundantly clear to all, the West does not give a damn about the rest of the world. Their entire global system is set up in such a mechanism which ensures their prosperity, not yours! Be it the IMF (International Monetary Fund), the WB (World Bank), the SWIFT (Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication), the Credit Ratings Agencies (Moody, S&P & Fitch), the Petrodollar and the World Trade Organization. All these organizations were established on the basis to facilitate the dominance of the West (and it's compliant i.e slave, partner nations). These organizations have been used periodically by the West against friend and foe alike. Be it against Japan in the 1990s, or Cuba in the 1950s, against Pakistan in the 1980s, or against Russia, today.
> 
> So the supporters of the West, living in the East, beware of the choices you are making today. For the consequences of your choices, will haunt you till the end of time.



Very well said.
Fortunately more and more people join fight against western fascism.
Colombian Fighter Alexis Castillo Fights for DPR In Mariupol​








Colombian Fighter Alexis Castillo Fights for DPR In Mariupol


Scroll down on this page to find more info and videos about him: https://medium.com/dfrlab/a-serb-a-texan-and-a-colombian-walk-into-a-war-9a0389dda2ba Desplácese hacia abajo en esta página para encontrar más información y videos sobre él.




www.bitchute.com





There are Polish volunteers fighting in Donetsk forces as well. Like Mieczysław Głowacki from Szczecinek:

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520395092883906565

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520449594135662592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520447935145811969

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520444314966536197

Reactions: Like Like:
5


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520439536207253505

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520360937965834240

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Viet

Piotr said:


> US founded Nazi Azov kill kids. USA must be proud.​Chechen Soldier in Mariupol Recalls Moment Where He Saw Azov Battalion’s True Face​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Translated and subtitled by Leo V.
> 
> April 25, 2022
> 
> Zaur – Military serviceman of Akhmat-Khadzhi Kadyrov’s Regiment:
> 
> It’s possible that before I came here, I doubted [the stories] a little bit. But back then when we freed the first prisoners from the house, which was directly situated nearby the Azovstal’ [factory], when those prisoners and civilians came out from the basements, they hugged and kissed us. And told us that they are happy to see us. They cried with tears in their eyes! I then realized that I ended up exactly for… (holding back emotions) what was needed. And I don’t doubt one drop that it was the right idea.
> 
> I remember that moment, that fragment which laid into my head, when we stormed a house where there were a lot of civilians, and many of those very Azov fighters. (Azov is an extremist organization that is banned in the territory of the Russian Federation.) A mother with her child runs outside, and we’re looking through binoculars. We can’t storm, we can’t enter, we can’t do anything. And then they shoot the mother in the spine. The mother falls… and we scream to the child: “RUN!!! RUN!!!” from all sides. The child froze, not understanding what to do. On one hand he wants to run, but on the other he wants to help his mother. And then suddenly his head, get this, this child’s HEAD gets shot by this scum, this evil BEAST. In this very moment, we all just suddenly forgot what death means, we forgot that there could be snipers there, just as a Crowd, Broke In! We threw smoke grenades so that they couldn’t see us. We broke in and just tore up all of them [fighters] that were inside. Well we got in there, but not just got in there. In the sense that people sacrificed their lives. Many soldiers sacrificed their lives in that moment. But we entered and fulfilled our task.
> 
> We could care less about our lives when we saw the life of a child being gone. When we realized that these are not people, but are animals, nothing less than beasts, that can allow themselves to… to kill a child. These are not people. Therefore I think that I ended up here exactly for the right reason. And everything that I have done here, I have done for these people who live right here and are smiling and hugging us. They even take the coordinates of where I live, as well as of my other fellow combat comrades, they want to come to our homeland and thank us for the liberation.
> 
> http://thesaker.is/chechen-soldier-...oment-where-he-saw-azov-battalions-true-face/


Should that be a joke? Asking a chechen terrorist why he is in Ukraine? Should he tell he is seeking washing machines?


----------



## Viet

Trango Towers said:


> I am amazed they don't know each shipment coming into Ukraine and are not hitting them on the way to Ukraine...ie as the shipment crosses the border. Satellites are not functioning for Russia???


The west sends weapons into Ukraine almost unhindered. Days and nights. 42 countries provide weapons and financial assistance via Poland, Slovakia and Romania. The Russians can’t stop the flows. Unless they attack Nato territories.


----------



## The SC

Bloomberg: *Europe will enter into a major crisis if the crisis of paying Russian energy imports in rubles is not resolved*

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...le-energy-market-braces-for-putin-s-next-move


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520061519802912770


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520467974171336705

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520406189678465024


----------



## Apollon

Im proud for us european people.


Harbor workers in Sweden rejcted to pump oil from a russian ship. In the end the ship left sweden to netherlands and the harbor workers in Rotterdam denied to assist the ship as well. Its sitting in the north sea now, doesnt know where to go. So far no oil embargo exists but european workers denie to do jobs associated with Russia. 









Dutch port workers refuse to unload Russian diesel tanker in Amsterdam


Dutch port workers refuse to unload Russian ....




en.royanews.tv

Reactions: Love Love:
1 | Haha Haha:
2


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520270644373561344
https://euromaidanpress.com/2015/04/16/why-romania-will-fight-russia/


----------



## mulj

Apollon said:


> Im proud for us european people.
> 
> 
> Harbor workers in Sweden rejcted to pump oil from a russian ship. In the end the ship left sweden to netherlands and the harbor workers in Rotterdam denied to assist the ship as well. Its sitting in the north sea now, doesnt know where to go. So far no oil embargo exists but european workers denie to do jobs associated with Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dutch port workers refuse to unload Russian diesel tanker in Amsterdam
> 
> 
> Dutch port workers refuse to unload Russian ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.royanews.tv


Good news for Saudis and rest of the bunch.

If the France and rest of the EU weee not stupid and suck uo to the russkies in Libya they could avoidi cryse completely with oiil supply.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

Bloomberg.. 10 European companies open accounts in Gazprombank to pay for gas in rubles -
4 have already made the payments

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Good riddance
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520461780107075585



Bring proof or it didn't happen.


----------



## The SC

Good morning, Ukraine! 💙💛
These are Ukrainian girls! 💅🏼
They are considered the most beautiful in the world and it's true!
Today they are also defending our country. They are brave, strong and courageous. They are all different, but there is one thing that unites them - the desire to win.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519896336308523008

The US _M777_ howitzer has arrived in Ukraine..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520067158553804800


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

Vergennes said:


> Good riddance
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520461780107075585











The SC said:


> Good morning, Ukraine! 💙💛
> These are Ukrainian girls! 💅🏼
> They are considered the most beautiful in the world and it's true!
> Today they are also defending our country. They are brave, strong and courageous. They are all different, but there is one thing that unites them - the desire to win.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519896336308523008
> 
> The US _M777_ howitzer has arrived in Ukraine..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520067158553804800


Cap peelers


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> Cap peelers




Just bring proof; otherwise, what you have is a wishful thinking.


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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520470958372491265

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520473106263031815
@Vergennes @Get Ya Wig Split


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520072279002079233
@Vergennes @Get Ya Wig Split @F-22Raptor


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520436318513381376

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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> Another footage of the defeat of armored vehicles (A BMP-3 in this case) of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation with the help of Javelin anti-tank systems.
> 
> Small groups with good weapons are a new page in the military doctrine of our time.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520372194056052737
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520364599098462214



Anti tank weapons really proved their effectiveness in WWII:









This Is How Hitler's Panzerfaust Became a World War II Tank Killer


Inexpensive and deadly.




nationalinterest.org


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520490032590917632
@F-22Raptor @Vergennes

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## Primus

The SC said:


> Good morning, Ukraine! 💙💛
> These are Ukrainian girls! 💅🏼
> They are considered the most beautiful in the world and it's true!
> Today they are also defending our country. They are brave, strong and courageous. They are all different, but there is one thing that unites them - the desire to win.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519896336308523008
> 
> The US _M777_ howitzer has arrived in Ukraine..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520067158553804800


Interesting propaganda......are they trying to get the simps to join the armed forces?

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## The SC

Western sources reported that in Ukraine, the Russian forces began to use the *PTKR-1M*
Top-attack Anti-tank mine in the fighting.​
PTKR-1M anti-tank mine. The cheap answer to the Javelin program.​


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## Trango Towers

Viet said:


> The west sends weapons into Ukraine almost unhindered. Days and nights. 42 countries provide weapons and financial assistance via Poland, Slovakia and Romania. The Russians can’t stop the flows. Unless they attack Nato territories.


Yes they can. They have drones. They pretty much own the airspace

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## thetutle

Apollon said:


> Another one bites the dust.
> 
> 
> Mega yacht Amades did run from Europe to avoid sanctions and now got catched on Fiji islands. 😅
> 
> russian oligarch Kerimov tried evrything to save his 350 million € yacht...all futile 😅👍
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After rushing across the Pacific ocean for 18 days to avoid getting captured, the Fiji police seized the $350 million superyacht Amadea of sanctioned oligarch Suleiman Kerimov. So luxurious is the vessel that the ceiling of the owner's cabin recreate
> 
> 
> A few days ago, the $350 million superyacht Amadea belonging to one of Russia's wealthiest oligarchs, was sailing at full speed towards Australia. The
> 
> 
> 
> 
> luxurylaunches.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Foinikas @Vergennes @F-22Raptor


He was rushing to australia in order to avoid the yacht being seized? A capital idea. We all know australia has nothing to do with the western alliance. Your superyacths bought with crooked money are safe here. NOT.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> The west sends weapons into Ukraine almost unhindered. Days and nights. 42 countries provide weapons and financial assistance via Poland, Slovakia and Romania. The Russians can’t stop the flows. Unless they attack Nato territories.



Is this a joke? How do you think tanks and howitzers can cross Dnipr without a bridge? Unless they can swim.

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## thetutle

Trango Towers said:


> I am amazed they don't know each shipment coming into Ukraine and are not hitting them on the way to Ukraine...ie as the shipment crosses the border. Satellites are not functioning for Russia???


I am not amazed at all. Russia has shown itself to be pretty incompetent. Add to that US ability to disrupt those systems, And this is what you get. Furthermore, US is utlitizing only a very small part of its capabilities to disrupt Russia in this fight over Ukraine. It is Saving the bulk of its capabilities for a direct war against russia, in case it ever gets to that point. 

So take what US did to Iran nuclear programme and multiply it 10x or by 30x or by 50x. 

We know from Eric Snowden that CIA can activate every camera and every microphone on any device made by a western company or using western designed components. How many Russian scientists have western brand phones. Well, they are all compromised. 

How about Russian satellites? do they have western components? is it a good idea to use western components? Ask Iran. 

Russia has some great IT specialist. How many of them work for the US? 

And even if their satellites work fine, how are their comms from command to artillery? Can those comms be intercepted? Can the wrong coordinates be given?

Rest assured, russia is waging a war against 40 countries of the western alliance and they will make it as difficult as possible.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> I am not amazed at all. Russia has shown itself to be pretty incompetent. Add to that US ability to disrupt those systems, And this is what you get. Furthermore, US is utlitizing only a very small part of its capabilities to disrupt Russia in this fight over Ukraine. It is Saving the bulk of its capabilities for a direct war against russia, in case it ever gets to that point.
> 
> So take what US did to Iran nuclear programme and multiply it 10x or by 30x or by 50x.
> 
> We know from Eric Snowden that CIA can activate every camera and every microphone on any device made by a western company or using western designed components. How many Russian scientists have western brand phones. Well, they are all compromised.
> 
> How about Russian satellites? do they have western components? is it a good idea to use western components? Ask Iran.
> 
> Russia has some great IT specialist. How many of them work for the US?
> 
> And even if their satellites work fine, how are their comms from command to artillery? Can those comms be intercepted? Can the wrong coordinates be given?
> 
> Rest assured, russia is waging a war against 40 countries of the western alliance and they will make it as difficult as possible.



Napoleon and Hitler can't beat Russia and Biden thinks he can beat Russia? He's way over his head.

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## The SC

Ukraine admits heavy losses in Russian onslaught​

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## thetutle

The SC said:


> The US _M777_ howitzer has arrived in Ukraine..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520067158553804800


Thats not a US weapon.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> Napoleon and Hitler can't beat Russia and Biden thinks he can beat Russia? He's way over his head.


so true, 

But, UK defeated Napoleon. 

And US and UK defeated Hitler. 

And US defeated USSR. 

So. how do you think this will end?


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## RescueRanger

Lol 😂 I rest my case. One Facebook post destroyed two major fake news:

Ghost of Kyiv and the F16 wishful thinking 😂.

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## RescueRanger

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520473106263031815
> @Vergennes @Get Ya Wig Split
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520072279002079233
> @Vergennes @Get Ya Wig Split @F-22Raptor
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520436318513381376


Seems like they hit a special forces unit :

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## thetutle

hmmmmmm, what is this?


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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520473106263031815
> @Vergennes @Get Ya Wig Split
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520072279002079233
> @Vergennes @Get Ya Wig Split @F-22Raptor
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520436318513381376



"Kharkov". Those material losses date from late march and were from Kherson area. Thank you for stopping to post BS and tag me.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520516608099241985

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## Foinikas

RescueRanger said:


> Queue the Benny Hill theme music:


Somehow I imagined Ukrainian soldiers chasing Russian soldiers like in Benny Hill show and then Russians chasing the Ukrainians and then the Ukrainians chasing them back again...lol

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520469409944551427


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## RescueRanger

Foinikas said:


> Somehow I imagined Ukrainian soldiers chasing Russian soldiers like in Benny Hill show and then Russians chasing the Ukrainians and then the Ukrainians chasing them back again...lol


Would be amazing if someone could compile it 😂


----------



## Primus

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520469409944551427


I wouldn't call the ghost of kyiv a meme. If its supposed to be a collective image of all the fighter pilots in the UAF, then call it something like symbol or something heroic and triumphant sounding. Don't degrade it by calling it a meme

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## RescueRanger

Huffal said:


> I wouldn't call the ghost of kyiv a meme. If its supposed to be a collective image of all the fighter pilots in the UAF, then call it something like symbol or something heroic and triumphant sounding. Don't degrade it by calling it a meme


This! I think the Ghost of Kyiv is a symbol of hope for the people of Ukraine. Of a nations unyielding will against overwhelming odds. 

We all know how effective propaganda is in times of crisis.

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## Trango Towers

thetutle said:


> I am not amazed at all. Russia has shown itself to be pretty incompetent. Add to that US ability to disrupt those systems, And this is what you get. Furthermore, US is utlitizing only a very small part of its capabilities to disrupt Russia in this fight over Ukraine. It is Saving the bulk of its capabilities for a direct war against russia, in case it ever gets to that point.
> 
> So take what US did to Iran nuclear programme and multiply it 10x or by 30x or by 50x.
> 
> We know from Eric Snowden that CIA can activate every camera and every microphone on any device made by a western company or using western designed components. How many Russian scientists have western brand phones. Well, they are all compromised.
> 
> How about Russian satellites? do they have western components? is it a good idea to use western components? Ask Iran.
> 
> Russia has some great IT specialist. How many of them work for the US?
> 
> And even if their satellites work fine, how are their comms from command to artillery? Can those comms be intercepted? Can the wrong coordinates be given?
> 
> Rest assured, russia is waging a war against 40 countries of the western alliance and they will make it as difficult as possible.


Well said


----------



## Hydration

RescueRanger said:


> This! I think the Ghost of Kyiv is a symbol of hope for the people of Ukraine. Of a nations unyielding will against overwhelming odds.
> 
> We all know how effective propaganda is in times of crisis.


no using something fake as a symbol of hope is not advicable

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## Foinikas

Huffal said:


> I wouldn't call the ghost of kyiv a meme. If its supposed to be a collective image of all the fighter pilots in the UAF, then call it something like symbol or something heroic and triumphant sounding. Don't degrade it by calling it a meme


Well the thing is that they kept saying it's one man from the beginning and that he shot down 6 aircraft on the first day and then kept saying he was shot down and then he got a new jet fighter and then got shot down again,then they said he was killed by S-300s,then they presented someone else,then some other guy appeared and asked the people to buy him a jet fighter (I saw the video on TV) and now they said it was another guy who had 40 kills in 18 days.

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## RescueRanger

Hydration said:


> no using something fake as a symbol of hope is not advicable


It’s happens since time immemorial.






Category:War in mythology - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org







Foinikas said:


> Well the thing is that they kept saying it's one man from the beginning and that he shot down 6 aircraft on the first day and then kept saying he was shot down and then he got a new jet fighter and then got shot down again,then they said he was killed by S-300s,then they presented someone else,then some other guy appeared and asked the people to buy him a jet fighter (I saw the video on TV) and now they said it was another guy who had 40 kills in 18 days.


That’s what happens when you don’t have a single story teller. Take the story of Homer’s Iliad = Hector and Achilles and many other heroes of myth and legend.

Although retold and dramatised many times since it was first penned in the 8th Century - the central storyline stays the same because the original work is driven by the author. 

Information control is difficult in war - especially in the age of abundant information at one’s fingertips.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> "Kharkov". Those material losses date from late march and were from Kherson area. Thank you for stopping to post BS and tag me.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520516608099241985



You're nuts. Those equipment were destroyed recently. I tagged you to bust your bubble. Our posts are recent.


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## Primus

Foinikas said:


> Well the thing is that they kept saying it's one man from the beginning and that he shot down 6 aircraft on the first day and then kept saying he was shot down and then he got a new jet fighter and then got shot down again,then they said he was killed by S-300s,then they presented someone else,then some other guy appeared and asked the people to buy him a jet fighter (I saw the video on TV) and now they said it was another guy who had 40 kills in 18 days.


That and the fact that the entire ghost of kyiv myth was started in Scottish Koala's discord chat. Btw he is a war thunder streamer and youtuber. I used to watch him lol

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520474986363953158

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520478720934486016

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## RescueRanger

Huffal said:


> That and the fact that the entire ghost of kyiv myth was started in Scottish Koala's discord chat. Btw he is a war thunder streamer and youtuber. I used to watch him lol


Lol 😂


----------



## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520463695813484545



In overall, I see most of action in next 2 weeks being a slow artillery grind, until one, or other side blinks first.

Russia has more tubes obviously, and more rocket artillery munitions, but that's the problem itself.

They bring a 16 pieces battery, and then they get all destroyed by a single MLRS blast.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520476431205163009



No one should take the Ukrainian propaganda very seriously. They're manufacturing most of their propaganda images and videos.

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## RescueRanger

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520476431205163009
> 
> 
> 
> No one should take the Ukrainian propaganda very seriously. They're manufacturing most of their propaganda images and videos.


Okay this reminded me of Afghanistan 😂

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## LeGenD

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520236583286460422


Many of these are forcibly deported. Some have fled from Russia somehow and disclosed as much.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520457132520480768

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520454712000225281


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## BHAN85

Apollon said:


> Im proud for us european people.
> 
> 
> Harbor workers in Sweden rejcted to pump oil from a russian ship. In the end the ship left sweden to netherlands and the harbor workers in Rotterdam denied to assist the ship as well. Its sitting in the north sea now, doesnt know where to go. So far no oil embargo exists but european workers denie to do jobs associated with Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dutch port workers refuse to unload Russian diesel tanker in Amsterdam
> 
> 
> Dutch port workers refuse to unload Russian ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.royanews.tv



Those workers must be fired. Their fanatical ideology is damaging their people interests.

Tell how proudful you are this winter to the poor elderly people that will die of cold due to your fanatical ideas of nonsense propaganda.

And it doesnt exist a thing like "Europeans". Greek people has nothing in common to Dutch people.

Meanwhile Ukrainian and Russian people are exactly the same people.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520528627800186880



The Russian army provides aid to the Lugansk region At the entrance to the village, the Russian army was greeted by children who happily welcomed our soldiers Residents received stew, bread, juice, pasta, hygiene products, cakes


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520395806141988866


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## LeGenD

The SC said:


> View attachment 839486
> 
> 
> This is the Russian report in light of a complete absence regarding the Ukrainian losses of officers, personnel, equipment and prisoners of war, in addition to the participants, volunteers or foreign soldiers present on the ground in the Western media and all websites, there is nothing certain and what exists and published is just according to Ukrainian, British, American or Polish sources..



There is ample evidence of losses of equipment in Turkish source (Oryx).

There is another source which documents losses of troops. It is very graphic, however.

OSINT have revolutionized journalism methods and coverage lately. Some of these sources might be well-connected behind-the-scenes.

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## Foinikas

BHAN85 said:


> Those workers must be fired. Their fanatical ideology is damaging their people interests.
> 
> Tell how proudful you are this winter to the poor elderly people that will die of cold due to your fanatical ideas of nonsense propaganda.
> 
> And it doesnt exist a thing like "Europeans". Greek people has nothing in common to Dutch people.
> 
> Meanwhile Ukrainian and Russian people are exactly the same people.


He's half-German.

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## Wood



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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You're nuts. Those equipment were destroyed recently. I tagged you to bust your bubble. Our posts are recent.



Oryx already documented these losses on the 28th of march,spare me your BS.


----------



## The SC

A Ukrainian military plane has arrived in Casablanca, Morocco.. possibly carrying a Ukrainian military delegation, a few days after Morocco participated in a NATO meeting..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520456910549442565
The possibility that the Military delegation will examine Morocco's stockpile of out-of-service weapons that could benefit the Ukrainians.. An excellent opportunity for Morocco to get rid of its Tunguska, T72 and M60A1 in exchange for American compensation with the latest gear..


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520551268254633984
They fly very low because of fear of ManPads, but this creates an opportunity for ATGMs.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520518697881903105


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## The SC

Financial Times: *Fears among foreign companies that have left Russia that “local or allied companies” of Moscow will take their places*

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520457132520480768


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520481979518668802

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519722007612559361
Scenes from the battles between Russian and Ukrainian forces in Donbass






What did you learn from the Russian-Ukrainian war? - " I learned that the White House is useless on a black day."

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## PakFactor

The SC said:


> A Ukrainian military plane has arrived in Casablanca, Morocco.. possibly carrying a Ukrainian military delegation, a few days after Morocco participated in a NATO meeting..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520456910549442565
> The possibility that the Military delegation will examine Morocco's stockpile of out-of-service weapons that could benefit the Ukrainians.. An excellent opportunity for Morocco to get rid of its Tunguska, T72 and M60A1 in exchange for American compensation with the latest gear..



Bad move on Morocco part if they will part with Russian equipment in there inventory. You want to keep those things in reserve at all times if things go south.

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## CAPRICORN-88




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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520508262470361088


PakFactor said:


> Bad move on Morocco part if they will part with Russia equipment in there inventory. You want to keep these things in reserve at all times if things go south.


True.. but they might not give all they have.. just the oldest for getting some new US or European weapons.. Morocco abstained from voting against Russia in the UN vote.. they are apparently trying to find a middle ground because Ukraine had called on their ambassador not too long ago..they have good, normal relations with both sides of the conflict..

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## CAPRICORN-88




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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520531683757465602

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520521500582895620


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## Wood



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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520562416781643782

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Oryx already documented these losses on the 28th of march,spare me your BS.



Show it or shove it. I don't believe it.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88



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## The SC

CAPRICORN-88 said:


>


This is well known now.. worldwide.. even Zelensky speeches have a US connotation to them.. it does not seem real..

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520555298347491333


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520507342596362240


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520555298347491333


Yes indeed.. drones + artillery have added a new equation to modern war.. armed drones on their own too..

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## Flight of falcon

RoadAmerica said:


> Hum so not even close to being the same as Russians executing civilians with their hands tied behind their back.
> The worlds a tough place, it’s not the wests job to feed it.




Yes watching newborn and toddlers cry for food and slowly starve to death is completely acceptable way of killing kids for the Americans

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520551268254633984
> They fly very low because of fear of ManPads, but this creates an opportunity for ATGMs.




Ukrainians also manufacture videos, so unless they can show the wreckage of the Ka-52 helicopter, I would take anything they claim with a grain of salt.


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## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520544034854383616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520543344585179136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520542771781664768


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520513606022049796


----------



## Thomas

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Ukraine was in a state of civil war when Russia invaded in February.
> 
> 
> 
> Other than the US, the others have very little military hardware. Entire Germany only has a few hundred tanks.


Most tanks being given by NATO are from the eastern European countries. Poland alone is looking to send 250 soviet era tanks and replace them with the MIA2v3. That aside as far as equipment this battle is being mainly fought with missiles, artillery, and drones. Backed up Infantry and real time intelligence provided by NATO. And the missile production lines in the US and Europe are being ramped to provide Ukraine with as many as they need. The cost Russia will incur to move a few miles will be enormous. And while Russia may stick with the tactic of leveling cities to rubble. You have only to look at Mariupol to see they will never give in to Russian demands to be conquered.
​


----------



## RoadAmerica

Flight of falcon said:


> Yes watching newborn and toddlers cry for food and slowly starve to death is completely acceptable way of killing kids for the Americans


They should be provided food, blame their own governments.
Stop blaming the worlds problems on the west


----------



## Thomas

RescueRanger said:


> Yes F-16’s would be a game changer - but based on the last embarrassment with the Bulgarian and Polish Mig’s - I’m going to wait for actual video confirmation of F16’s flying over Kyiv before I start getting hopeful.


I would think it would take months to properly train MIG pilots used to flying with hydraulic controls. Then switch them to the fly by wire system of the F-16's, and upwards of 2 years for new pilots.

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## Shawnee

No Bayrakdar TB2 drone has been knocked out in the past 24 hours which is quite fascinating.

Congratulations to the Canadian and Austrian companies making even the fuel tanks and cables of Bayrakdar.

Excellent news.


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## Flight of falcon

RoadAmerica said:


> They should be provided food, blame their own governments.
> Stop blaming the worlds problems on the west





Educate yourself …. Go back and read about sanctions on Iraq…

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520533204133892097

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## CAPRICORN-88

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Ukrainians also manufacture videos, so unless they can show the wreckage of the Ka-52 helicopter, I would take anything they claim with a grain of salt.


While the pro-Ukrainian fanboys are drumming up victories by the disorganised and undisciplined Ukrainian Forces, whether they are real or fact will have no effects on the final outcome of Russia special operation in East Ukraine.

They have captured thousands of neo-NAZI AVOZ with the foreign mercenaries.

The realities are even these US and US MSM are now spinning their stories the other ways -
Thry confirmed Ulrainian Forces are trapped and retreating BUT but they are inflicting heavy Russia losses. They claimed. No proof needed.

They are destroying bridges and roads to deter Russian Military advancement.

They claimed Russia economy is contracting and the collapse of the Ruble without pointing out Ukriane GDP will contract by 30~60% this year.

In fact the GDP of the entire EU nations are contracting and inflations are skyrocketing.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520535153604366336
Russia is stalling in the east

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## Bleek

Foinikas said:


> He's half-German.


He's a white supremacist lol - just not fully there yet. 

Never seen dude talk about his own individual country, it's always "Europe, European, NATO" lmao

No one gives a shit about those labels, individual country means more, the rest is political

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## CAPRICORN-88

In reality many Ukrainian Forces are reported encircled and trapped in many areas and are fleeing South to Sloviansky.

The US Pentagon reported that Russia is behind schedule in its military operation.

Wow. Is the Pentagon directing the war?

Did they set the schedule?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520213596331982849

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520296639629598720

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

Russia is also at serious risk now of being pushed out of the Kharkiv region and having to reinforce that front with units from the Izyum offensive. 

Russia is stalling in the east and clearly losing in Kharkiv.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520561337780162560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520577652720955392

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520433870142943232


----------



## RescueRanger

Shawnee said:


> No Bayrakdar TB2 drone has been knocked out in the past 24 hours which is quite fascinating.
> 
> Congratulations to the Canadian and Austrian companies making even the fuel tanks and cables of Bayrakdar.
> 
> Excellent news.


How about congratulating the Turkish for you know - making the drone? Or the Ukrainians for operating them effectively?

Reactions: Love Love:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520391660726849538

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RescueRanger

CAPRICORN-88 said:


>


I was listening to an interview on the BBC World service and even a guest panellist on the BBC referred to the conflict as a Proxy War.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520409251180650496

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520628390608326657

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520627670853165057

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520539161471631361


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520526614626545666


----------



## Oldman1

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Why? These things cost money. Germany is not a charity. Germany does not want to waste money supplying a basket case like Ukraine.


Its in Germany's interests to weaken Russia to the point that they don't attempt to attack a NATO country that could lead to WW3. Especially Finland or the Baltics or Poland.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520409251180650496











Austin's assertion that US wants to 'weaken' Russia underlines Biden strategy shift


As Russia's invasion of Ukraine has transformed into a grinding war of attrition with no meaningful peace deal in sight, the US and its allies have begun to convey a new, longer-term goal for the war: to defeat Russia so decisively on the battlefield that it will be deterred from launching such...




www.cnn.com




Pretty obvious. The U.S. already told the world about the plan.
Austin's assertion that US wants to 'weaken' Russia underlines Biden strategy shift​
Washington (CNN)As Russia's invasion of Ukraine has transformed into a grinding war of attrition with no meaningful peace deal in sight, the US and its allies have begun to convey a new, longer-term goal for the war: to defeat Russia so decisively on the battlefield that it will be deterred from launching such an attack ever again.
That message was delivered most clearly on Monday, when Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin told reporters after a trip to Ukraine's capital city of Kyiv that "we want to see Russia weakened to the degree that it can't do the kinds of things that it has done in invading Ukraine."
A National Security Council spokesperson said that Austin's comments were consistent with what the US' goals have been for months -- namely, "to make this invasion a strategic failure for Russia."
"We want Ukraine to win," the spokesperson added. "One of our goals has been to limit Russia's ability to do something like this again, as Secretary Austin said. That's why we are arming the Ukrainians with weapons and equipment to defend themselves from Russian attacks, and it's why we are using sanctions and export controls that are directly targeted at Russia's defense industry to undercut Russia's economic and military power to threaten and attack its neighbors."


----------



## Viet

RescueRanger said:


> Dates back to the Vietnam war and has seen a lot of battles:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M113 armored personnel carrier - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org


Yes they are good for 100y. Made in USA. 
Vietnam army still uses them.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Oldman1 said:


> Its in Germany's interests to weaken Russia to the point that they don't attempt to attack a NATO country that could lead to WW3. Especially Finland or the Baltics or Poland.



Doing that would require sending thousands if not tens of thousands of Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine. Assets Germany does not have. The entire Germany only have a few hundred Leopard 2 tanks. Plus, the more Russians fight, the more powerful they are, as evidenced in WW2.

The only way to weaken Russia is nuke Moscow and slaughter millions of Russian civilians. Essentially genocide, killing most if not all the Russians on planet Earth.


----------



## Oldman1

Spoiler: Graphic


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520358501503148033


----------



## Oldman1




----------



## Viet

M113 with mounted cannon


----------



## Oldman1

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Doing that would require sending thousands if not tens of thousands of Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine. Assets Germany does not have. The entire Germany only have a few hundred Leopard 2 tanks. Plus, the more Russians fight, the more powerful they are, as evidenced in WW2.
> 
> The only way to weaken Russia is nuke Moscow and slaughter millions of Russian civilians. Essentially genocide, killing most if not all the Russians on planet Earth.


You don't need to send tens of thousands of Leos. Keep sending body armor and anti tank missiles and artillery and whatever else they can think of.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520625198793428992


Oldman1 said:


> You don't need to send tens of thousands of Leos. Keep sending body armor and anti tank missiles and artillery and whatever else they can think of.



So? What could that achieve? Russians have thousands and thousands of Kornet, Metis M1, RPG-30. Also, the more Russians fight, the higher the Russian birth rate, and the faster the Russian population increase. It is a self reinforcing cycle. The only way to prevent Russian national pride is nuking Moscow and killing millions of Russians, genocide. Americans genocided native Americans. Americans know all about genocide.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520089705991315458

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520625511550144512


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520622214416158722

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520621736055738369

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520621437920464896


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520629783431979008

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## Oldman1

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520533204133892097


Imagine if they can increase the range as well as put like 2 missiles on the tripod or even 3.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520625536359403521

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520612459303903232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520614384749346816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520593063286030341


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia is also at serious risk now of being pushed out of the Kharkiv region and having to reinforce that front with units from the Izyum offensive.
> 
> Russia is stalling in the east and clearly losing in Kharkiv.




You can continue believing in your fairytales.

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## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520409251180650496


NATO never promised non expansion.
Ask Gorbatschow.
Weakening Russia is legitimate.
Do Russia, China not try to weaken the West?


----------



## Oldman1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520087866885423104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520091624717627393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519989003554115586

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519974503039836160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519970206193442816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519968449744805890

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## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia is also at serious risk now of being pushed out of the Kharkiv region and having to reinforce that front with units from the Izyum offensive.
> 
> Russia is stalling in the east and clearly losing in Kharkiv.


Wasnt the same thing said for Kherson?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Do Russia, China not try to weaken the West?



Personally, China used to look up to the West. However, the only favor the West ever returned was humiliation of China. Therefore, China is now sworn enemy of America.

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## Viet

Germany demands Russia to withdraw from Ukraine as condition for peaceful settlement and lifting sanctions.
The EU is preparing the next round of sanctions. That will push Russia further into the corner.









Ukraine-Liveblog: ++ NATO-Übungen beginnen in Osteuropa++


In Polen und acht weiteren Ländern beginnen NATO-Militärübungen mit Tausenden Soldaten. Seit Beginn des Krieges wurden fast 400.000 Geflüchtete aus der Ukraine in Deutschland registriert. Der Liveblog zum Nachlesen.




www.tagesschau.de


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520625511550144512



This guy used to have fun on the camera every day when Russia was involved in Syria civil war. It seems he is also enjoying camera time covering Russia's involvement in Ukraine civil war.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520581186845880321

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Germany demands Russia to withdraw from Ukraine as conditions for peaceful settlement and lifting sanctions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine-Liveblog: ++ NATO-Übungen beginnen in Osteuropa++
> 
> 
> In Polen und acht weiteren Ländern beginnen NATO-Militärübungen mit Tausenden Soldaten. Seit Beginn des Krieges wurden fast 400.000 Geflüchtete aus der Ukraine in Deutschland registriert. Der Liveblog zum Nachlesen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tagesschau.de



Not gonna happen. Russia don't need Germany no more. Germany population 80 million. China population 1400 million. China is a far more lucrative market for Russia. Not only that, China is the world's biggest gold producer. And we all know. Gold is the most valuable currency in the world.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520561337780162560


Major General Andrei Simonov, yet another Russian General that will be resurrected in the next future.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520414063368364032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520572349409599488

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## Oldman1

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520581186845880321











Russian FM to US, NATO: Stop supplying arms to Ukraine


Sergey Lavrov in interview with Xinhua says West should stop arming Ukraine if they are interested in resolving crisis.




www.aljazeera.com





Russia FM asks US, NATO to stop supplying arms to Ukraine​_Sergey Lavrov, in an interview with Xinhua, says the US and NATO should stop arming Ukraine if they are interested in resolving the crisis._

Russia’s foreign minister has again urged the United States and NATO to stop supplying Kyiv with arms if they are “really interested in resolving the Ukraine crisis”, Chinese state media has reported.

“If the US and NATO are really interested in resolving the Ukraine crisis, then first of all, they should wake up and stop supplying the Kyiv regime with arms and ammunition,” Sergey Lavrov said in an interview with China’s official Xinhua news agency.

The US and several European countries have supplied weapons worth billions of dollars to Ukraine in its fight against Russian aggression. US President Joe Biden has asked Congress for $33bn to support Ukraine.

Moscow has repeatedly warned Washington against continuing its military assistance to Kyiv, accusing the US of “pouring oil on the flames” of the war.

The Kremlin had previously called Western arms deliveries to Ukraine a threat to European security.

Months into an invasion that failed in its short-term aim of capturing Kyiv, Moscow is now intensifying operations in Ukraine’s eastern Donbas region.

But Lavrov told China’s official Xinhua news agency that the “special military operation … is proceeding strictly according to plan”.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520547365274402816

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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Personally, China used to look up to the West. However, the only favor the West ever returned was humiliation of China. Therefore, China is now sworn enemy of America.


Chinese traditionally hate the West. The East, the south. Everything. they hate everyone non China. The only sympathy chinese have is towards Cambodia. Because they can misuse cambodia as stooge against Vietnam. China will wait until Russia collapses then they will buy Russian assets for cheap.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Chinese traditionally hate the West. The East, the south. Everything. they hate everyone non China. The only sympathy chinese have is towards Cambodia. Because they can misuse cambodia as stooge against Vietnam. China will wait until Russia collapses then they will buy Russian assets for cheap.



Also, China has Russia's far east covered. If Japan invades South Kurils then China goes to war with Japan. China will never tolerate a more powerful Japan because of Nanjing massacre.


----------



## Oldman1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519763655608479746


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520637617402187776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520638209385975809

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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Not gonna happen. Russia don't need Germany no more. Germany population 80 million. China population 1400 million. China is a far more lucrative market for Russia. Not only that, China is the world's biggest gold producer. And we all know. Gold is the most valuable currency in the world.


Gold is overrated. Fossil fuels are overrated. Technology matters. Look at Tesla, Apple, Amazon. Each company is multiple times more worth than entire Russo gold reserves. Russian living standard shrunk by 1/3 in Q1, Gdp this year expected to be -12 percent, inflation 23 percent. That’s official figure. No the Russians won’t have money to buy Huawei phones.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520038682631327746


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Russian living standard shrunk by 1/3 in Q1, Gdp this year expected to be -12 percent, inflation 23 percent. No the Russians won’t have money to buy Huawei phones.



War weeds out the weak, the dumb, the disabled. War breeds evolution. There is no evolution without war. That's why western society is rotting from the inside out.


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## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## PakFactor

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520089705991315458



Oh no, hopefully they send in more of these hero’s to fight Russian Nazis. Lol.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russia annexes Kherson with switch from Ukrainian currency to Russian currency.



https://ria.ru/20220501/rubl-1786406008.html











Russian military appoints new 'head' of Kherson region in Ukraine


Last week, Ukrainian Defence Ministry's spokesman Olexandr Motuzyanyk said Russia is preparing to hold a "referendum" in the Kherson region on joining Russia




www.business-standard.com


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520027077545709568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520566620363632640

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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> War weeds out the weak, the dumb, the disabled. War breeds evolution. There is no evolution without war. That's why western society is rotting from the inside out.


Russian population shrinks, last year by almost one million. This war will accelerate the trend. If people see themselves no future there will be less kids. I expect Putin will become desperate and allow chinese settlers in Far East.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520520004822777861


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Russian population shrinks, last year by almost one million. This war will accelerate the trend.



War increases birth rate. This is human physiology. WW1 and WW2 increased human population a lot. There used to be war all the time before 1950 at which point there is no more war so human evolution reversed and humans devolved.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520516119928487936
Full interview:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/vide...ource=twitter&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic


----------



## PakFactor

Viet said:


> Russian population shrinks, last year by almost one million. This war will accelerate the trend. If people see themselves no future there will be less kids. I expect Putin will become desperate and allow chinese settlers in Far East.



Not just Russia but Europe as a whole will have issues we can expect approximately 2/3 impact in the Euro Zone. If this turns into a long term hot zone and meat grinder it’ll have more of an effect.









EU's population will plummet by millions more than expected: study


The population of the EU could drop to 308 million by the end of the century, a new study has predicted.




www.euronews.com


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520470603165220865


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

PakFactor said:


> Not just Russia but Europe as a whole will have issues we can expect approximately 2/3 impact in the Euro Zone. If this turns into a long term hot zone and meat grinder it’ll have more of an effect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU's population will plummet by millions more than expected: study
> 
> 
> The population of the EU could drop to 308 million by the end of the century, a new study has predicted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.euronews.com



EU population drop is mainly due to no war which physiologically induces low sexual activity and therefore low birth rate.

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## PakFactor

Tai Hai Chen said:


> EU population drop is mainly due to no war which physiologically induces low sexual activity and therefore low birth rate.



Bro, I’m sure spreading ones legs during war would be the last thing on one’s mind when your getting bombed, Lol.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

PakFactor said:


> Bro, I’m sure spreading ones legs during war would be the last thing on one’s mind when your getting bombed, Lol.



Humans are physiologically evolved to have more sexual activity during war. Nature evolved humans this way to breed men in time of war. Also, it seems more boys are born than girls during war time for some reason. Nature's evolution works in mysterious ways.


----------



## Wergeland

Tai Hai Chen said:


> EU population drop is mainly due to no war which physiologically induces low sexual activity and therefore low birth rate.



Partially true.

Its as simple as «Intellect on Peak Intensity cannot find any *Reason* to have Children»

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## Viet

PakFactor said:


> Not just Russia but Europe as a whole will have issues we can expect approximately 2/3 impact in the Euro Zone. If this turns into a long term hot zone and meat grinder it’ll have more of an effect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU's population will plummet by millions more than expected: study
> 
> 
> The population of the EU could drop to 308 million by the end of the century, a new study has predicted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.euronews.com


Low birth rate is world wide phenomen, see Far East. Japan is like a war zone. Even Vietnam birth rate is very low. The EU is better off, it receives millions of Ukraine refugees. EU imports immigrants, workers. Germany receives hundreds thousands of skilled and unskilled immigrants per year. Look at construction sites in Germany. You will hardly find any Germans.


----------



## BHAN85

Tai Hai Chen said:


> EU population drop is mainly due to no war which physiologically induces low sexual activity and therefore low birth rate.



You clearly have never visited EU countries.

Sexual activity is high, but birth rate is low due to low incomes of young people, and high promiscuity and hate to men due to feminist ideology.

Decades ago people married because it was the only possibility to have sex and it was a social institution. Now marriage is not needed.

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## LeGenD

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520625198793428992
> 
> 
> So? What could that achieve? Russians have thousands and thousands of Kornet, Metis M1, RPG-30. Also, the more Russians fight, the higher the Russian birth rate, and the faster the Russian population increase. It is a self reinforcing cycle. The only way to prevent Russian national pride is nuking Moscow and killing millions of Russians, genocide. Americans genocided native Americans. Americans know all about genocide.


Times have changed.









Russia Doesn’t Have the Demographics for War


The 1990s collapse in birth rates still impacts Moscow’s ambitions.




foreignpolicy.com


----------



## Clutch

Viet said:


> Gold is overrated. Fossil fuels are overrated. Technology matters. Look at Tesla, Apple, Amazon. Each company is multiple times more worth than entire Russo gold reserves. Russian living standard shrunk by 1/3 in Q1, Gdp this year expected to be -12 percent, inflation 23 percent. That’s official figure. No the Russians won’t have money to buy Huawei phones.



Technology becomes obsolete faster than we can spell obsolescence.


----------



## Clutch

RoadAmerica said:


> They should be provided food, blame their own governments.
> Stop blaming the worlds problems on the west



That's what I also keep telling Ukrainians.... They should blame their own government and stop blaming all their problems on the Russians!

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## Viet

Clutch said:


> Technology becomes obsolete faster than we can spell obsolescence.


Wrong. Technology progresses. What’s difference is the pace of progress. Car today is still car however is not car 50y ago. Compare Apple phone 1 to Apple phone 13. That is an ocean in between. Pistol today bases on the same principle when developed in China in 14 century. Do you remember Commodore 64?


----------



## LeGenD

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Personally, China used to look up to the West. However, the only favor the West ever returned was humiliation of China. Therefore, China is now sworn enemy of America.



The West provided much business to China on its terms. These investments led to development of Chinese industries and economy. Now that China have become a world power, it is more assertive in pursuit of its interests in the Pacific and elsewhere. This have led to tensions with some countries including USA. Chinese opponents are now drawing other plans. Terms of engagement are being renegotiated accordingly. This is the way of human civilizations.

China can still find common grounds with the West. For instance, China allowed Tesla to tap Chinese markets on reasonable terms. Tesla does not have to partner with any Chinese company but it provides R&D in China. This is better.

You speak on very hawkish terms though. Try to think positively at times.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520672984993783809

Reactions: Like Like:
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## LeGenD

Clutch said:


> That's what I also keep telling Ukrainians.... They should blame their own government and stop blaming all their problems on the Russians!



Russia have destroyed their country lately. Their resentment towards Russians is justified in large part.

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## RescueRanger

Meanwhile in Putler Land:

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## Primus

RescueRanger said:


> Meanwhile in Putler Land:
> 
> View attachment 839656
> 
> 
> View attachment 839657
> 
> 
> View attachment 839659
> 
> View attachment 839660


Putin you sussy baka

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Foinikas

Bleek said:


> He's a white supremacist lol - just not fully there yet.
> 
> Never seen dude talk about his own individual country, it's always "Europe, European, NATO" lmao
> 
> No one gives a shit about those labels, individual country means more, the rest is political


For some reason he has never replied to me when I talked in Greek. Either using greeklish or greek script.

The other thing is he constantly brags about having money and being wealthy. 

But back on topic,here's something I got from a friend

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## RescueRanger

Meanwhile US volunteers are being asked to go on night patrols without weapons:







😂

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520498662023262208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520480794782875649

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520256368657289217

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## RescueRanger

A convoy of British Fire Engines being driven towards Ukraine via Poland by volunteers from the British Fire Service:

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## Ali_Baba

RescueRanger said:


> Meanwhile in Putler Land:
> 
> View attachment 839656
> 
> 
> View attachment 839657
> 
> 
> View attachment 839659
> 
> View attachment 839660



Honestly - that looks like the rallies the NAZI's did in Nuremberg - it really does look like the Russians have become the new Nazi's ?! They even got the red arm bands!

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## RescueRanger

Ali_Baba said:


> Honestly - that looks like the rallies the NAZI's did in Nuremberg - it really does look like the Russians have become the new Nazi's ?! They even got the red arm bands!


Putin has become increasingly deranged.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520702173797044226

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520697747430690816


----------



## Ali_Baba

Dramatic moment two tanks are obliterated by explosives dropped from stealthy drone​








Moment two Russian tanks are obliterated by bombs from Ukrainian drone


Expertly flown by an operator believed to be from Ukraine's 503rd Naval Infantry Battalion, the drone swooped around 400ft above two Russian vehicles before letting loose its payload.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520658518247890945

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## RescueRanger

The post below gives a whole new meaning to that iconic dhirminder dialogue “Haramzadey Mei Tera Khoon pee jaon ga”.

I honestly don’t know how someone can resort to cannibalism for shock value for viewers. Deeply disturbing. 

Thread 'Sick ukrainian eats remains of 'russian soldier' - later found to actually be ukrainian corpse (18+)'
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/sick...nd-to-actually-be-ukrainian-corpse-18.741307/

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Vergennes

Good riddance

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## RescueRanger

Vergennes said:


> Good riddance
> 
> View attachment 839686


A lot of vacancies there 😂

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## Wergeland

PakFactor said:


> Not just Russia but Europe as a whole will have issues we can expect approximately 2/3 impact in the Euro Zone. If this turns into a long term hot zone and meat grinder it’ll have more of an effect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU's population will plummet by millions more than expected: study
> 
> 
> The population of the EU could drop to 308 million by the end of the century, a new study has predicted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.euronews.com



It is simply too expensive to raise children these days.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

RescueRanger said:


> A lot of vacancies there 😂



Lot of generals lost for a three days special military operation

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## Wergeland

RescueRanger said:


> A convoy of British Fire Engines being driven towards Ukraine via Poland by volunteers from the British Fire Service:
> 
> View attachment 839675



Cringy

UK should place soldiers on the ground in Ukraine.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520719198338625536


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520674981578948608

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ali_Baba

*'Cheap Chinese tyres bought by corrupt officials’ may be to blame for Russian trucks and armoured vehicles getting stuck in the mud in Ukraine*









Cheap Chinese tyres bought by corrupt officials stalls Russian forces


With Russian vehicles and armoured trucks getting stuck in the mud when veering off road, officials in the West are pointing to Chinese exports as a key factor behind the stalled invasion of Ukraine.




www.dailymail.co.uk





_A set of 50 Michelin XZL tyres retails on Alibaba at approximately $36,000, whereas 50 sets of the Chinese equivalent retails at around $208._

(wonder if Pakistan Army would have the same problems - less muddy but is the durability there ? )

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## RescueRanger

Wergeland said:


> Cringy
> 
> UK should place soldiers on the ground in Ukraine.


You do understand that would be tantamount to British getting involved in a full blown war with Russia right? Right ? Or are you just that naive to not know the difference ?


----------



## Viet

RescueRanger said:


> Meanwhile in Putler Land:
> 
> View attachment 839656
> 
> 
> View attachment 839657
> 
> 
> View attachment 839659
> 
> View attachment 839660


There are some similarities.






swastika armband


----------



## RescueRanger

Viet said:


> There are some similarities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> swastika armband
> 
> View attachment 839705


Russians are really going 180 it’s worrying.


----------



## Viet

RescueRanger said:


> Russians are really going 180 it’s worrying.


Putin wants glory. To achieve that goal he seems to resort to facism.

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## Bengal71

RescueRanger said:


> The post below gives a whole new meaning to that iconic dhirminder dialogue “Haramzadey Mei Tera Khoon pee jaon ga”.
> 
> I honestly don’t know how someone can resort to cannibalism for shock value for viewers. Deeply disturbing.
> 
> Thread 'Sick ukrainian eats remains of 'russian soldier' - later found to actually be ukrainian corpse (18+)'
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/sick...nd-to-actually-be-ukrainian-corpse-18.741307/



There are a lot of sick people in the world. Good looking young lad with a black heart.

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## Paul2

Ali_Baba said:


> *'Cheap Chinese tyres bought by corrupt officials’ may be to blame for Russian trucks and armoured vehicles getting stuck in the mud in Ukraine*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheap Chinese tyres bought by corrupt officials stalls Russian forces
> 
> 
> With Russian vehicles and armoured trucks getting stuck in the mud when veering off road, officials in the West are pointing to Chinese exports as a key factor behind the stalled invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _A set of 50 Michelin XZL tyres retails on Alibaba at approximately $36,000, whereas 50 sets of the Chinese equivalent retails at around $208._
> 
> (wonder if Pakistan Army would have the same problems - less muddy but is the durability there ? )



Military tires are made to age slowly, and not degrade after long storage.

If you ever drove heavy equipment, like cranes etc, you will feel that tires wobble even after a week of being left without driving, especially in cold weather.

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## Bengal71

Ali_Baba said:


> *'Cheap Chinese tyres bought by corrupt officials’ may be to blame for Russian trucks and armoured vehicles getting stuck in the mud in Ukraine*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheap Chinese tyres bought by corrupt officials stalls Russian forces
> 
> 
> With Russian vehicles and armoured trucks getting stuck in the mud when veering off road, officials in the West are pointing to Chinese exports as a key factor behind the stalled invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _A set of 50 Michelin XZL tyres retails on Alibaba at approximately $36,000, whereas *50 sets of the Chinese equivalent retails at around $208.*_
> 
> (wonder if Pakistan Army would have the same problems - less muddy but is the durability there ? )



This sounds BS. Even one chinese tyre for my SUV costs about 200 AUD and these are tyres for BMPs and 50 sets of them.

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## RescueRanger

Paul2 said:


> Military tires are made to age slowly, and not degrade after long storage.
> 
> If you ever drove heavy equipment, like cranes etc, you will feel that tires wobble even after a week of being left without driving, especially in cold weather.


I don’t know about Russia but here in Pakistan we rotate tyres on heavy equipment - a lesson we learned with our last bronto sky life which suffered tyre bulging in summer.

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## Viet

How rich is Vladimir Putin?
Putin is a poor man.
Per official figure he only has a flat of 79 square meters. As president he earns 400,000 USD per year.
However the West estimates Putin has a wealth of between 40 billion and 200 billion USD.









Wie reich ist Putin? Das schätzen Experten


Wladimir Putin ist als Präsident Russlands weltweit bekannt, doch nur wenige wissen, wie reich er ist. In diesem Artikel erfahren Sie Infos über seine Einnahmen und das geschätzte Vermögen Putins.




praxistipps.focus.de














„Der Präsident zeigt, dass er in beachtlicher physischer Form ist“: Putin bei einer Fotosession in Sibirien, 2009. © AFP


----------



## thetutle

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Not gonna happen. Russia don't need Germany no more. Germany population 80 million. China population 1400 million. China is a far more lucrative market for Russia. Not only that, China is the world's biggest gold producer. And we all know. Gold is the most valuable currency in the world.


Do you remember how you predicted that china would arm Armenia with those useless wing loon drones and how you thought Armenia would defeat Azerbaijan? 

We remember. 

Now you are telling us more fairytales. You have a great imagination.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520547365274402816


You dont have a problem with invading 23 countries or killing millions of people, you just wish russia could do the same.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520700356161728517

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520699813297213441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520724427591532545

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520692501006352385

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520691780852719616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520690397726486528


----------



## RoadAmerica

Flight of falcon said:


> Educate yourself …. Go back and read about sanctions on Iraq…


Probably shouldn’t invade sovereign countries then there won’t be sanctions. 
Try educating yourself, cause and effect.
Again blame their own government



Tai Hai Chen said:


> Doing that would require sending thousands if not tens of thousands of Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine. Assets Germany does not have. The entire Germany only have a few hundred Leopard 2 tanks. Plus, the more Russians fight, the more powerful they are, as evidenced in WW2.
> 
> The only way to weaken Russia is nuke Moscow and slaughter millions of Russian civilians. Essentially genocide, killing most if not all the Russians on planet Earth.


🤦🏿‍♂️

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Ali_Baba said:


> Honestly - that looks like the rallies the NAZI's did in Nuremberg - it really does look like the Russians have become the new Nazi's ?! They even got the red arm bands!




What you're suggesting here doesn't make sense. They're in preparation for the victory day that is upcoming on May 09, 2022. Their uniforms and arm bands are what they've worn since WWII. There is no Swastika or Sieg Heil salute given by those Russians. The Russian military style of parade is quite different than that of the Nazis, and there is deference to Nazi figures. As a matter fact, Russians are the people who defeated the Nazis in WWII and fighting them to do in Ukraine. A little bit of fact checking really busts what you and other like-minded individuals have claimed here.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520633237042712576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520530325969174528


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520746024427569154


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520709789407498240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520709076648439808


----------



## Shawnee

TB2 spirit, locked and loaded.

Apply locally and no further than Armenia and Libya.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520702173797044226


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520646828022460417

Reactions: Love Love:
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## thetutle

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520674981578948608


Great, They can keep it. Does not bother me one bit.


----------



## mulj

Maybe Ukrainians will hava more luck then Azeris to neutralize this evil lier and propagandist.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520699488364548096

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520728636386680832

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## RoadAmerica

Huffal said:


> Putin you sussy baka


Nah Putler is just fine


----------



## thetutle

mulj said:


> Maybe Ukrainians will hava more luck then Azeris to neutralize this evil lier and propagandist.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520699488364548096


This guy is totally military intelligence. In Azerbaijan, wherever he went and reported how good Armenia is doing, that city would fall to Azeiris shortly after. lol


----------



## RoadAmerica

Viet said:


> NATO never promised non expansion.
> Ask Gorbatschow.
> Weakening Russia is legitimate.
> Do Russia, China not try to weaken the West?


^exactly
Wake up you Putler fan boys


----------



## Hydration

RoadAmerica said:


> Probably shouldn’t invade sovereign countries then there won’t be sanctions.
> Try educating yourself, cause and effect.
> Again blame their own government
> 
> 
> 🤦🏿‍♂️


shouldve applied that narrative to ur self in the last 3 decades

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520734072418545664

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## PakAlp

Ukraine V Russia phase 1 war documentary. Great details.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520767965402214400


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520734072418545664



Fake.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520705319856340992


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen




----------



## Ali_Baba

Huge mystery fire erupts at Russian defence facility - enormous smoke cloud​








Huge mystery fire erupts at Russian defence facility - enormous smoke cloud


A RUSSIAN defence ministry facility in southern Belgorod bordering Ukraine has caught fire, a local governor confirmed on Sunday




www.express.co.uk






( oooppsssiiee - another electrical failure it seems )

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Apollon

BHAN85 said:


> Those workers must be fired. Their fanatical ideology is damaging their people interests.
> 
> Tell how proudful you are this winter to the poor elderly people that will die of cold due to your fanatical ideas of nonsense propaganda.
> 
> And it doesnt exist a thing like "Europeans". Greek people has nothing in common to Dutch people.
> 
> Meanwhile Ukrainian and Russian people are exactly the same people.



This is Europe. Nobody dies here in winter. 

That said, nobody gets fired. We have powerful unions who protect them. The unions btw called on all workers to not support russian ships.


Greeks and Dutch both Europe. We have same roots, ideology and culture is on same foundation. 


I can live in netherlands and its like home. I could not live in china or India. Its like alien planet for me

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## PakFactor

RescueRanger said:


> Meanwhile in Putler Land:
> 
> View attachment 839656
> 
> 
> View attachment 839657
> 
> 
> View attachment 839659
> 
> View attachment 839660



I’m seeing the arm band on those on the edge of each row, and the number is based on the order on there row while those within don’t have it.

I feel this is rehearsals for the May march.

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## RescueRanger

PakFactor said:


> I’m seeing the arm band on those on the edge of each row, and the number is based on the order on there row while those within don’t have it.
> 
> I feel this is rehearsals for the May march.


Yes sir but it’s clearly choreographed for “optics”.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520789525555032066


----------



## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520734072418545664



Lol, they lost their COAS? Just WTH?


----------



## Wood

Paul2 said:


> Lol, they lost their COAS? Just WTH?


Nope, just wounded









Vlad's military chief wounded in Ukraine & scurries home days after arriving


VLADIMIR Putin’s top military commander has been wounded in Ukraine and was sent back to Russia just days after he arrived to take charge of the war. The Chief of the Russian General Staff Va…




www.the-sun.com


----------



## Shawnee

Shawnee said:


> View attachment 839732
> 
> 
> TB2 spirit, locked and loaded.
> 
> Apply locally and no further than Armenia and Libya.



Price of seven TB2 spirit lost in 48 hours plus control center is more than an F16 and close to an F35.

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## Ali_Baba

Shawnee said:


> Price of seven TB2 spirit lost in 48 hours plus control center is more than an F16 and close to an F35.



If 1 TB2 takes down 1 t-72/90 tank then it has made its money back - chances are a TB2 will take several if not more tanks - so still massively beneficial. TB2s are easier to replace than tanks as well. War of economics and supply chains ...


----------



## Shawnee

Ali_Baba said:


> If 1 TB2 takes down 1 t-72/90 tank then it has made its money back - chances are a TB2 will take several if not more tanks - so still massively beneficial. TB2s are easier to replace than tanks as well. War of economics and supply chains ...



We have barely seen any TB2 success footage in a month. Propaganda machine went flat.

Let me remind you Iranian drones are a lot less expensive and hit Aramco facilities 1000 km away deep inside KSA bullies eye. Compare it with TB2 barely passing the Russian border.

KSA sky is better protected than Russian sky. *Saudis are among the best in anti-drone warfare.*

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## jamal18

Apollon said:


> This is Europe. Nobody dies here in winter.


In the Uk a whole bunch of elderly do. 






Response to new excess winter death figures | Age UK


Age UK's Charity Director Caroline Abrahams responds to figures released by the ONS showing that over the winter of 2017-18, there were almost 46,000 excess winter deaths among people aged 65 and over.




www.ageuk.org.uk

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## Shawnee

Shawnee said:


> We have barely seen any TB2 success footage in a month. Propaganda machine went flat.
> 
> Let me remind you Iranian drones are a lot less expensive and hit Aramco facilities 1000 km away deep inside KSA bullies eye. Compare it with TB2 barely passing the Russian border.
> 
> KSA sky is better protected than Russian sky. *Saudis are among the best in anti-drone warfare.*




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517959804370759680
That is why Zelensky said TB2 is not as it was advertised.

TB2 is ok for local use against Armenia or Libya but not Russia or KSA.


----------



## Viet

Paul2 said:


> Lol, they lost their COAS? Just WTH?


Crazy
Putin will get heart attack.
Gerasimov is the rank highest general.

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## jamal18

Talk of Polish incursion into western Ukraine. Russian allegations not being denied by Poland. 

Any info?


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Bengal71 said:


> This sounds BS. Even one chinese tyre for my SUV costs about 200 AUD and these are tyres for BMPs and 50 sets of them.


These guys need tyres?
I think the tractors pulling them away may need some.


----------



## oberschlesier

jamal18 said:


> Talk of Polish incursion into western Ukraine. Russian allegations not being denied by Poland.
> 
> Any info?


Polish incursion? I read, that the lastest version is Polish - American Incursion.
It already happened. Angelina Jolie is in Lviv and is recruting a 5th column.

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## Viet

jamal18 said:


> Talk of Polish incursion into western Ukraine. Russian allegations not being denied by Poland.
> 
> Any info?


No incursion
Nonsense
Poland donates 200x T72 tanks to Ukraine. The Poles receive 250x US tanks later in compensation. Ukraine takes the T72 in Poland.









Polen liefert Ukraine über 200 T-72 Panzer - Putin sagt Teilnahme an G20-Gipfel zu
 

Kreml bestätigt Angriff auf Kiew während des Besuchs von UN-Chef Guterres +++ Russische Angriffe treffen Lazarett in Mariupol +++ Die Entwicklungen zum Ukraine-Krieg im Ticker.




www.stern.de








Polen hat nun die Ankündigung wahr gemacht und liefert T-72-Panzer an die Ukraine


----------



## oberschlesier

Viet said:


> No incursion
> Nonsense
> Poland donates 200x T72 tanks to Ukraine. The Poles receive 250x US tanks later in compensation. Ukraine takes the T72 in Poland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polen liefert Ukraine über 200 T-72 Panzer - Putin sagt Teilnahme an G20-Gipfel zu
> 
> 
> Kreml bestätigt Angriff auf Kiew während des Besuchs von UN-Chef Guterres +++ Russische Angriffe treffen Lazarett in Mariupol +++ Die Entwicklungen zum Ukraine-Krieg im Ticker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.stern.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polen hat nun die Ankündigung wahr gemacht und liefert T-72-Panzer an die Ukraine


I read in the media, there is as well talk, to deliver even more, if Germany would compensate with Leopard 2A4 from industry storage. Polish army is already operating two brigade of Leopard 2.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Shawnee said:


> We have barely seen any TB2 success footage in a month. Propaganda machine went flat.
> 
> Let me remind you Iranian drones are a lot less expensive and hit Aramco facilities 1000 km away deep inside KSA bullies eye. Compare it with TB2 barely passing the Russian border.
> 
> KSA sky is better protected than Russian sky. *Saudis are among the best in anti-drone warfare.*



Turks asked the Ukranians to not publish any more videos - we have the occasional loss of a TB2 which means they are active and doing their job. The UAF are just not posting TB2 videos to reduce Russian pressure on Turkey....


----------



## Clutch

Viet said:


> Wrong. Technology progresses. What’s difference is the pace of progress. Car today is still car however is not car 50y ago. Compare Apple phone 1 to Apple phone 13. That is an ocean in between. Pistol today bases on the same principle when developed in China in 14 century. Do you remember Commodore 64?


Technology you hold in your hand becomes obsolete versus something that has intrinsic value. 

Let's say I sell you my latest model iPhone today for $1200. I ask you may me in equivalent today's value of gold $1200 (24k for almost a gram). My gold after a few years will appreciate in value. You iPhone will be worth $200 (if that).

I win out.


----------



## Ali_Baba

*Putin's chief of staff Valery Gerasimov is 'wounded by shrapnel after being sent to Ukraine by Russian president to secure victory', reports claim - as ANOTHER mystery explosion rocks Russian city*









Putin's chief of staff Valery Gerasimov 'wounded' in Ukraine


Valery Gerasimov, the chief of staff of the Russian army, was wounded in Izyum in Ukraine's Kharviv region, which has been at the centre of intense fighting since Russia's invasion.




www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## Shawnee

Ali_Baba said:


> Turks asked the Ukranians to not publish any more videos - we have the occasional loss of a TB2 which means they are active and doing their job. The UAF are just not posting TB2 videos to reduce Russian pressure on Turkey....



Made up claim 
Source?
They have always published it in Libya and Ukraine. They blocked Russians in air and sea which is more significant.

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## Apollon

Ali_Baba said:


> *Putin's chief of staff Valery Gerasimov is 'wounded by shrapnel after being sent to Ukraine by Russian president to secure victory', reports claim - as ANOTHER mystery explosion rocks Russian city*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin's chief of staff Valery Gerasimov 'wounded' in Ukraine
> 
> 
> Valery Gerasimov, the chief of staff of the Russian army, was wounded in Izyum in Ukraine's Kharviv region, which has been at the centre of intense fighting since Russia's invasion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk



All is going as planned

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520798882330025986


----------



## _Nabil_

Apollon said:


> *This is Europe. Nobody dies here in winter.*
> 
> That said, nobody gets fired. We have powerful unions who protect them. The unions btw called on all workers to not support russian ships.
> 
> 
> Greeks and Dutch both Europe. We have same roots, ideology and culture is on same foundation.
> 
> 
> I can live in netherlands and its like home. I could not live in china or India. Its like alien planet for me





jamal18 said:


> In the Uk a whole bunch of elderly do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Response to new excess winter death figures | Age UK
> 
> 
> Age UK's Charity Director Caroline Abrahams responds to figures released by the ONS showing that over the winter of 2017-18, there were almost 46,000 excess winter deaths among people aged 65 and over.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ageuk.org.uk


In France every year elderly die in the summer too








Bilan des vagues de chaleur 2021 : impact sanitaire et conséquences sur la population exposée


L’été 2021 a été marqué par un mois de juin très chaud et quelques épisodes de fortes chaleurs. Santé publique France publie un bilan national des vagues de chaleur de l’ét&eacu...




www.santepubliquefrance.fr

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Shawnee

Ali_Baba said:


> Turks asked the Ukranians to not publish any more videos - we have the occasional loss of a TB2 which means they are active and doing their job. The UAF are just not posting TB2 videos to reduce Russian pressure on Turkey....




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517959804370759680
Wait a minute. Turkey asked Zelensky to say TB2 is not a game changer. Is that your argument?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-russia-war-1.6437449











LIVE — Civilians evacuated from Mariupol steel plant – DW – 05/01/2022


Dozens of civilians have been evacuated from the bunkers of the Azovstal steel plant in Mariupol, Ukraine's president confirmed. Meanwhile, US House Speaker Nancy Pelosi held talks in Kyiv. Follow DW for the latest.




www.dw.com







Shawnee said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517959804370759680
> Wait a minute. Turkey asked Zelensky to say TB2 is not a game changer. Is that your argument?



TB2 is not that high tech. It lacks SATCOM used by much bigger drones like Wing Loong 2, Reaper. It's control range is limited to about 200 km from the control truck.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Ali_Baba said:


> *'Cheap Chinese tyres bought by corrupt officials’ may be to blame for Russian trucks and armoured vehicles getting stuck in the mud in Ukraine*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheap Chinese tyres bought by corrupt officials stalls Russian forces
> 
> 
> With Russian vehicles and armoured trucks getting stuck in the mud when veering off road, officials in the West are pointing to Chinese exports as a key factor behind the stalled invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _A set of 50 Michelin XZL tyres retails on Alibaba at approximately $36,000, whereas 50 sets of the Chinese equivalent retails at around $208._
> 
> (wonder if Pakistan Army would have the same problems - less muddy but is the durability there ? )




If the soil muddy, any vehicle would get in the mudd,

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520824665303916544

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520792472430989313


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520722209924427778

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## thetutle

Shawnee said:


> KSA sky is better protected than Russian sky. *Saudis are among the best in anti-drone warfare.*


Lol, I mean really?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

One of the destroyed S300 donated by the NATO members


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520774914726408193
Slovak S300 bit the dust


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520778452433084417

Reactions: Like Like:
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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520839301440974850


----------



## Shawnee

thetutle said:


> Lol, I mean really?



Without doubt.

KSA skies are covered with fully loaded F15s and AEW and C chasing every single detected target. Excellent sky coverage with the world’s fifth airforce. Unlimited use of AA missiles against drones.

Ground and sea are full of vast range of AD from Aegis to patriot, and EW units.

KSA even has Chinese Laser based AD and had the first claimed real life drone kill with Laser.

KSA had 5+ years of drone experience.

While people believe in the cliche of “lazy Arabian baboons”, they are definitely among the best in drone defense.

Russia does not have much of drone or anti-drone experience.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Ghanima or trophies captured by Russian and pro-Russian forces


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520538014707027969

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520439158573047809

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520439026725146630

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520824665303916544



Now - that video could have done with the Benny Hill music overlay ....


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Ukrainians setting dynamites underbridges, so when Russians get closer, they can blow them away. The so-called 'winning" in Western media.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520360271323275264

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## thetutle

Shawnee said:


> Without doubt.
> 
> KSA skies are covered with fully loaded F15s and AEW and C chasing every single detected target. Excellent sky coverage with the world’s fifth airforce. Unlimited use of AA missiles against drones.
> 
> Ground and sea are full of vast range of AD from Aegis to patriot, and EW units.
> 
> KSA even has Chinese Laser based AD and had the first claimed real life drone kill with Laser.
> 
> KSA had 5+ years of drone experience.
> 
> While people believe in the cliche of “lazy Arabian baboons”, they are definitely among the best in drone defense.
> 
> Russia does not have much of drone or anti-drone experience.


😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 yes we can see this. Those guys couldn't shoot down a zeppelin on a clear day.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520791311225348096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520853307828412418


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520848375595294722

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Primus

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Ukrainians setting dynamites underbridges, so when Russians get closer, they can blow them away. The so-called 'winning" in Western media.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520360271323275264
> Another Ukrainian S300 bit the dust
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520356490518966272


Old footage/pics


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520842618615341057


Huffal said:


> Old footage/pics




When? Bring proof with your claims.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520795014976131072

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520793652024463363

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520773195804160001

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520527937551970308

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## thetutle

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Ukrainians setting dynamites underbridges, so when Russians get closer, they can blow them away. The so-called 'winning" in Western media.


You are obsessed with someone winning this war? There will likely not be a winner in this war. Ukraine is already destroyed, and God knows what will happen to russia when this is all done.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520816385571569665

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520834188655710209

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520834190840897544


----------



## Primus

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520842618615341057
> 
> 
> 
> When? Bring proof with your claims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520795014976131072
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520793652024463363


This is the exact same burning s300 picture/vid. First uploaded 2 months ago


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t0i3bm


----------



## Primus

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520560459623055364


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520868536524189698

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520857142844182528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520857689257091073

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

Huffal said:


> This is the exact same burning s300 picture/vid. First uploaded 2 months ago
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t0i3bm




There is no footage or image that shows that is included in that link. There were so many Ukrainian S300 systems that were destroyed during this war. Therefore, your claim these recent images are old have no basis. Those NATO-provided S300 are being taken out, so just denying it in PDF by you and others won't change that fact.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t0i3bm

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520881373485182977

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520889838647619584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520885047405985794

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520881643896152066

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## WotTen

thetutle said:


> You must be a Chinese Australian, who else would have such a strange view on the events. Not even a Russian would say something absurd like that.
> [...]
> NATO is spreading eastwards because those countries fear russia. And tis their choice to join or not. Russians or Russian speakers were not oppressed in Ukraine. Zelinsky is a Russian speaker.



I am a Pakistani-Australian and a strong supporter of Imran Khan who was kicked out, many of us believe, through Western meddling because he dared to stand firm on Pakistani national interests and refused to be a sellout like the previous and current governments.

I completely accept that Russia is no angel but Western countries have caused a lot more damage to Pakistan and Muslims over the years. Western countries are a great place to live, domestically, but many of them don't follow liberal ideals in their foreign policy.

I posted a link to a YouTube video which talks about 80+ regime changes by the US alone. This is not Russian propaganda, this is well documented history. Ironically, the US has become the best partner of anti-democratic forces because it buys out the corrupt elite in many countries who then rob the country blind while ordinary people wallow in poverty.

Anyway, getting a bit off topic...

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520867929738432513

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## WotTen

oberschlesier said:


> btw. Stop mixing USSR with Russia. Cuban missle crisis was with the USSR, Russia did not exist as Country then!



USSR was a Russian show with side actors, just like NATO is an American show with side actors. Everybody knows who calls the shots.

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## Primus

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> There is no footage or image that shows that is included in that link. There were so many Ukrainian S300 systems that were destroyed during this war. Therefore, your claim these recent images are old have no basis. Those NATO-provided S300 are being taken out, so just denying it in PDF by you and others won't change that fact.
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t0i3bm


My dude, its the exact same s300 that was burning in that video as it was in the reddit link i sent you. Its old. Start of the war old.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

WotTen said:


> USSR was a Russian show with side actors, just like NATO is an American show with side actors. Everybody knows who calls the shots.



Agreed. The capital is the same. An analogy is modern Britain is an evolution of British empire, modern France is an evolution of French empire. A better analogy is modern Russian is an evolution of Russian empire because not only the capital is the same, the flag is also the same.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520894179030798338

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520773616375193606


----------



## WotTen

oberschlesier said:


> You don`t see the narrative of the countries in Central-Eastern Europe. Remember, the EU has Western and Eastern Members. The Eastern members have a similar potential to the Russia, if not bigger. The Partnership with Russia will be possible, when Russia really reconciles with the Countries of Central-Eastern Europe and stops it`s imperial ambitions. Russia, due to its bullying policy was seen as a growing threat



Central and Eastern European countries can be welcomed in the EU, but NATO is a military alliance. Any NATO country can veto the addition of a new member, but we all know who calls the shots. What surprises me is that Germany and France allowed NATO to expand when they could have pushed for EU expansion instead, possibly even including Russia eventually.


----------



## The SC

Urgent, Taiwan's Foreign Minister: When there is a war with China, we need friends and allies to support us, as in the case of Ukraine 

@AsharqNewsBrk


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520862330669735936

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Huffal said:


> My dude, its the exact same s300 that was burning in that video as it was in the reddit link i sent you. Its old. Start of the war old.




I was referring to the below destroyed Slovak-provided S300s? Where do you see them posted a month ago?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520774914726408193

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520863306478665729

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520756207048343559

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> Urgent, Taiwan's Foreign Minister: When there is a war with China, we need friends and allies to support us, as in the case of Ukraine
> 
> @AsharqNewsBrk
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520862330669735936



China is not Russia. Taiwan is not Ukraine. Taiwan is much smaller and more vulnerable.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520765842111275009
US Congressman Adam Kinzinger calls for troop deployments to Ukraine if Putin uses chemical, biological or nuclear weapons. Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger introduced a resolution on May 1 authorizing US President Joe Biden to send troops to Ukraine in such cases.

This decision is expected to be endorsed by members of both parties.. It was made after consulting with Biden..


----------



## Primus

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I was referring to the below destroyed Slovak-provided S300s? Where do you see them posted a month ago?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520774914726408193


Im referring to the burning s300 footage you posted alongside it which was uploaded 2 months ago


----------



## The SC

Lavrov: US encouraged "Ukrainian hostility" to Russia as part of "anti-Moscow and long-term strategy"

@AsharqNewsBrk



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520618353106485248

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520856856008220675


Huffal said:


> Im referring to the burning s300 footage you posted alongside it which was uploaded 2 months ago




So you don't have an issue with these images? That is the one that was reported to have come from Slovenia to Ukraine.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520774914726408193

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520605986259873793


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520867453810753536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520884704051924995

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## ahtan_china

007

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520769703165280256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520625371921760257


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> So you don't have an issue with these images? That is the one that was reported to have come from Slovenia to Ukraine.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520774914726408193



Man, that S-300 didn't last long. Looks like it was spotted by a drone then wrecked by a cruise missile.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520918784005095426

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520904565436170240

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520905606642741248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520913752891174912

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520919541890662400


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520843025265610754


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520825054589865986

Russia now over 3,300 losses

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520825054589865986
> 
> Russia now over 3,300 losses



Easy replaced. Meet Tigr armored cars. Very versatile.

Heavy machine gun variant.






Anti tank guided missile variant






MANPADS variant






Air defense radar variant

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## CAPRICORN-88

Ali_Baba said:


> *'Cheap Chinese tyres bought by corrupt officials’ may be to blame for Russian trucks and armoured vehicles getting stuck in the mud in Ukraine*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheap Chinese tyres bought by corrupt officials stalls Russian forces
> 
> 
> With Russian vehicles and armoured trucks getting stuck in the mud when veering off road, officials in the West are pointing to Chinese exports as a key factor behind the stalled invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _A set of 50 Michelin XZL tyres retails on Alibaba at approximately $36,000, whereas 50 sets of the Chinese equivalent retails at around $208._


What a spin?

And London Black Cab owned by Geely should be breaking down all over the city as it is using Chinese built component and *Chinese tyres*.

Only low IQ folks will buy such tall tales.

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## CAPRICORN-88

So the *T72B3* allegedly rebuilt after being captured from Russian Forces by Ukrainian Forces is in fact a modified T72 tank supplied by Poland.  

So which one is real and which one is fake. 

Another one claimed Russia is running out of missiles as the engines for these missiles are Made in Ukraine.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520938845956546560


----------



## mmr

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520938845956546560


Money will be used to help rebuild Ukraine


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520923318966054912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520926973605810176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/152092732221111091

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520953242594668544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520956037024542720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520958834788864001

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## mmr

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Don't bother rebuilding. They will be cruise missiled as punishment for Euro Maidan.


Will you ever stop trolling

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520967999305355264


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Tai Hai Chen said:


> This is a permanent war. So no point rebuilding.


Yes. You are right. 

As long there is no permanent political settlement reached with Russia e.g. neutrality, etc, all new constructions are just temporal and will be destroyed in the future. 

NATO Secretary Jens Stoltenberg is talking and promoting a war with Russia that will lasts for decades if not forever. 

The Turkey Peace Talks were allegedly sabotaged By UK's Boris Johnson and his counterparts at US State Secretariat after Zalensky agreed to too many concessions to Russia. 

Lizz Truss, one who equals herself to Margaret Thatcher talks of victory against Russia bring thr only solution as a final settlement.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520960967261052928


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Only the people of Ukraine will be the victim, thanks to the reckless and callous politicians.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Yes. You are right.
> 
> As long there is no permanent political settlement reached with Russia e.g. neutrality, etc, all new constructions are just temporal and will be destroyed in the future.
> 
> NATO Secretary Jens Stoltenberg is talking and promoting a war with Russia that will lasts for decades if not forever.
> 
> The Turkey Peace Talks were allegedly sabotaged By UK's Boris Johnson and his counterparts at US State Secretariat after Zalensky agreed to too many concessions to Russia.
> 
> Lizz Truss, one who equals herself to Margaret Thatcher talks of victory against Russia bring thr only solution as a final settlement.



War is about profit. Like covid is permanent, war is permanent. There is too much profit at stake. Western military industrial complex earns billions a week selling arms to Ukraine. That's a lot of money.

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## CAPRICORN-88

About 100 civilains has finally been released from Azovstal Steetworks following the visit by UN Sec General Antonio Guterres.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520759831589797890

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520924314580799489


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Tai Hai Chen said:


> War is about profit. Like covid is permanent, war is permanent. There is too much profit at stake. Western military industrial complex earns billions a week selling arms to Ukraine. That's a lot of money.



True. Just see which country and companies are benefiting from the war in Ukraine.

We have no problem with that as long as...

*they changed the venue of the war to their own countries instead e.g. the US, UK, Poland, Germany, etc. 

Since all these warmongers love war so much. Be the victim themselves. *


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520916380404617216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520900977863364609

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520715329948770305


----------



## Viet

Clutch said:


> Technology you hold in your hand becomes obsolete versus something that has intrinsic value.
> 
> Let's say I sell you my latest model iPhone today for $1200. I ask you may me in equivalent today's value of gold $1200 (24k for almost a gram). My gold after a few years will appreciate in value. You iPhone will be worth $200 (if that).
> 
> I win out.


You don’t understand. Gold is static. Your old iPhone becomes cheaper because the new iPhone can more. More memory, run faster, camera lens sharper. Technology advances. If there is no progress your old iPhone is the new iPhone. your old iPhone may cost even more today. Take Russia.
Car manufacturing output decreases by 75 percent. Try to buy a new car.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## Viet

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520759831589797890
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520924314580799489


That’s huge blow to Russia.
Putin can cancel the celebration there is nothing to cheer. Waste of time and money.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## sammuel

Tai Hai Chen said:


>



Are you sure you want to use this analogy of 1984 ? 

This novel was written as warning of a dictatorships who controls mass media .

Sounds familiar ?


Media freedom in Russia :
















Media freedom in Russia - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Back in 2018

*The US is arming and assisting NEO-NAZIs in Ukraine while Congress debates prohibition. 





*


----------



## patero

Viet said:


> That’s huge blow to Russia.
> Putin can cancel the celebration there is nothing to cheer. Waste of time and money.


Imagine if the Ukrainians figure out a way of bombing the May 9 parade.

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## Viet

patero said:


> Imagine if the Ukrainians figure out a way of bombing the May 9 parade.


I don’t know if Ukraine has long range missiles however No not good, let’s Putin have his parade. Not a military target. Imagine there is air raid sirens in Moscow. Putin will go blast.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512861742812086283


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> I don’t know if Ukraine has long range missiles however No not good, let’s Putin have his parade. Not a military target. Imagine there is air raid sirens in Moscow. Putin will go blast.



If they have a Tomahawk, they could potentially do it. Distance between Kiev and Moscow is 755 km. Tomahawk has range 2,500 km. But doing so gives Russia carte blanche to cruise missile every power plant in Ukraine and that would half Ukraine's population within years.


----------



## sammuel

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512861742812086283



lets put things in perspective :

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

sammuel said:


> lets put things in perspective :



True, but that is measured in USD. In Russia 1 USD is worth a lot. In the US, not so much. In terms of PPP Russia is the world's biggest arms exporter.


----------



## BHAN85

Apollon said:


> This is Europe. Nobody dies here in winter.
> 
> That said, nobody gets fired. We have powerful unions who protect them. The unions btw called on all workers to not support russian ships.
> 
> 
> Greeks and Dutch both Europe. We have same roots, ideology and culture is on same foundation.
> 
> 
> I can live in netherlands and its like home. I could not live in china or India. Its like alien planet for me



Same decadence, that's all.

China is like the West decades ago, before it f*cked up with social engineering.

We'll see if die people of cold this winter or not in North-Europe.

Of course, rich dumbshit kids of EU parlament will give a fck about them.

In Spain there's people already than can't afford pay electricity bills, since years ago, since 2008 crisis the number has increased. But that people just doesnt exist for EU parlament rich kids.









La pobreza energética afecta a 4,5 millones de españoles - companias-de-luz


Para empezar: ¿Qué es la pobreza energética? La pobreza energética es la situación en la que un hogar es incapaz de pagar por los servicios de energía mínimos para cubrir sus necesidades básicas o deben destinar una gran parte de sus ganancias a pagar la factura del consumo eléctrico de su...




www.companias-de-luz.com


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

BHAN85 said:


> Same decadence, that's all.
> 
> China is like the West decades ago, before it f*cked up.
> 
> We'll see if die people of cold this winter or not in North-Europe.
> 
> Of course, rich dumbshit kids of EU parlament will give a fck about them.
> 
> In Spain there's people already than can't afford pay electricity bills, since years algo, since 2008 crisis the number has increased. But that people just doesnt exist for EU parlament rich kids.



That's why Spain should leave EU like Britain did.


----------



## BHAN85

Tai Hai Chen said:


> That's why Spain should leave EU like Britain did.



It's not a problem for local elites, so nobody will move a finger.


----------



## Clutch

Viet said:


> You don’t understand. Gold is static. Your old iPhone becomes cheaper because the new iPhone can more. More memory, run faster, camera lens sharper. Technology advances. If there is no progress your old iPhone is the new iPhone. your old iPhone may cost even more today. Take Russia.
> Car manufacturing output decreases by 75 percent. Try to buy a new car.



You cannot own technology with lasting value. They day you purchase it, it has lost its value already. It is a transitory platform. Whereas, rare earth elements have intrinsic value. You may think Tesla Microsoft Apple have permanence, but Blackberry, Yahoo, Palm, Compaq may tell a different story.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Observe

*Russia so far did not even bother to response to all those made believe stories about the Ghost of Kyiv and other. *

The Generals must be the most dangerous rank in Russian Military as they must all die before they get resurrected again according the US and Western story scripts.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## patero

Viet said:


> I don’t know if Ukraine has long range missiles however No not good, let’s Putin have his parade. Not a military target. Imagine there is air raid sirens in Moscow. Putin will go blast.


I was thinking more along the lines of a saboteur. This parade would have to be a target, and not just by Ukrainians, anti-putin Russians or even an inside job would be possibilities too. The chance to make a statement and embarrass the Putin regime would make the parade a highly attractive opportunity.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

patero said:


> I was thinking more along the lines of a saboteur. This parade would have to be a target, and not just by Ukrainians, anti-putin Russians or even an inside job would be possibilities too. The chance to make a statement and embarrass the Putin regime would make the parade a highly attractive opportunity.



However, how attacks on Russian civilians only serve to strengthen Russian resolve of war. In WW2 Germans and British bombed each other's civilians, only making the people support the war much more.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

So how many of these US weapon delivery to Ukraine will ended up in Russian hands, Fox News is asking?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> So how many of these US weapon delivery to Ukraine will ended up in Russian hands, Fox News is asking?



Russians already captured a shit ton of Javelin, NLAW. M777 still no show for capture.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

*Meanwhile according to Harvard University, US economy on the Q1 2022 has contracted.*

Will US President Biden be remembered as a Wartime President?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *Meanwhile according to Harvard University, US economy on the Q1 2022 has contracted.*
> 
> Will US President Biden be remembered as a Wartime President?



Biden is a coward. If I were Biden I give 1,000 Tomahawk to bomb Moscow from Kiev.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Musk breaks silence on Biden disinformation board formation after Twitter buyout: 'Discomforting'​
The disinformation board has been widely slammed by conservatives on Twitter.

*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519651722393702400*


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Biden is a coward. If I were Biden I give 1,000 Tomahawk to bomb Moscow from Kiev.



Unfortunately you have just vindicated Moscow. 

That is the very justification and reason provided by Moscow for her* "Special Military Operation". 

Russia's National Security.*

FYI 80~90% of Tomahawk Cruise Missiles missed their targets fired by the USN on their intended targets in Syria.


----------



## K_Bin_W

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Biden is a coward. If I were Biden I give 1,000 Tomahawk to bomb Moscow from Kiev.


For that, you need balls lots of balls.



CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *Russia's National Security.*
> 
> FYI 80~90% of Tomahawk Cruise Missiles missed their targets fired by the USN on their intended targets in Syria.


Yes they fired a few in A-Stan missed their targets and few landed in Pak.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## CAPRICORN-88

Nowadays ordinary people in EU are more concerned about the high cost of living, food shortage and gas shortage. 

Only nations like Poland, Bulgaria, Lithuania, Estonia are concerned about Ukraine or what is happening in there.

Says if one is a factory owner in Germany, what do you think will be his greatest concern nowadays? 

While Chancellor Olaf Scholtz and Annalena Baerbock may be busy playing their politics, this factory owner will be trying hard to reconcile his book on how to survive the energy crisis. 

Politicians are pathetic liars. No problem they will assured them and Zap! the electricity stopped functioning or the tariff will be sky high.


----------



## thetutle

WotTen said:


> I am a Pakistani-Australian and a strong supporter of Imran Khan who was kicked out, many of us believe, through Western meddling because he dared to stand firm on Pakistani national interests and refused to be a sellout like the previous and current governments.
> 
> I completely accept that Russia is no angel but Western countries have caused a lot more damage to Pakistan and Muslims over the years. Western countries are a great place to live, domestically, but many of them don't follow liberal ideals in their foreign policy.
> 
> I posted a link to a YouTube video which talks about 80+ regime changes by the US alone. This is not Russian propaganda, this is well documented history. Ironically, the US has become the best partner of anti-democratic forces because it buys out the corrupt elite in many countries who then rob the country blind while ordinary people wallow in poverty.
> 
> Anyway, getting a bit off topic...


Yes, thats fine, but having russia replace the west is not an option, clearly. And if you think living in the west is good, shouldn't other people have the same opportunity? And since they cant all come here, why not set the stage for them to achieve the same in their own countries. 

Imran khan was replaced by Pakistani politicians who obviously thought he was not doing a good job. I dot know enough about his policies, but Pakistan is some sort of a democracy I would think, so prime ministers will come and go.


----------



## sammuel

Tai Hai Chen said:


> . In terms of PPP Russia is the world's biggest arms exporter.



In terms of percentage % % % : the west and south Korea export something like 63% of weapons in the world. 

Russia less than 20 and half of what US is exporting.


~


----------



## thetutle

WotTen said:


> What surprises me is that Germany and France allowed NATO to expand when they could have pushed for EU expansion instead, possibly even including Russia eventually.


They did expand the EU. They expanded both.



The SC said:


> @AsharqNewsBrk
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520862330669735936


What a grotesque lie.


----------



## WotTen

thetutle said:


> Yes, thats fine, but having russia replace the west is not an option, clearly. And if you think living in the west is good, shouldn't other people have the same opportunity? And since they cant all come here, why not set the stage for them to achieve the same in their own countries.



All of Europe could have joined into an expanded EU rather than NATO. EU would have been far more prosperous working with Russia rather than fighting Russia. Spending money on human development instead of weapons. Getting cheap resources from Russia instead of expensive alternatives from USA.

No matter how you look at it, Europe is the loser and USA is the winner from this conflict.



thetutle said:


> Imran khan was replaced by Pakistani politicians who obviously thought he was not doing a good job. I dot know enough about his policies, but Pakistan is some sort of a democracy I would think, so prime ministers will come and go.



He was replaced by dynastic oligarchs who have looted the country for decades and want their next generation to continue the family business of looting the country. Meanwhile the masses remain poor and uneducated.

All the dynastic elite have their children and assets in the West or the oil sheikdoms, from where they come to Pakistan to reign over the unwashed masses as their birthright. The West supports these thieves as long as they do their bidding in foreign policy. Imran Khan dared to stand tall and promote the interests of the Pakistani masses. He will be killed for it.


----------



## sammuel

thetutle said:


> Yes, thats fine, but having russia replace the west is not an option, clearly. And if you think living in the west is good, shouldn't other people have the same opportunity? And since they cant all come here, why not set the stage for them to achieve the same in their own countries.
> 
> Imran khan was replaced by Pakistani politicians who obviously thought he was not doing a good job. I dot know enough about his policies, but Pakistan is some sort of a democracy I would think, so prime ministers will come and go.



I Also believe that it is better to live in a free democracy . And all the values of human freedom that come along with it.

This war is clearly about this values as well as the freedom of Ukrainians.

It is clearly a case of a dictatorship invading another country , seeking to enslave it.

Don"t understand some people's moral stand here .

It does not get more black and white than this.









~

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Clutch

Ali_Baba said:


> *'Cheap Chinese tyres bought by corrupt officials’ may be to blame for Russian trucks and armoured vehicles getting stuck in the mud in Ukraine*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheap Chinese tyres bought by corrupt officials stalls Russian forces
> 
> 
> With Russian vehicles and armoured trucks getting stuck in the mud when veering off road, officials in the West are pointing to Chinese exports as a key factor behind the stalled invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _A set of 50 Michelin XZL tyres retails on Alibaba at approximately $36,000, whereas 50 sets of the Chinese equivalent retails at around $208._
> 
> (wonder if Pakistan Army would have the same problems - less muddy but is the durability there ? )


----------



## WotTen

thetutle said:


> They did expand the EU. They expanded both.



Here is the root of our disagreement: your side believes Putin would have invaded Eastern Europe sooner or later as part of an Imperial Russian dream; I believe he would have accepted an economic partnership with EU and even joined it.

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## thetutle

WotTen said:


> All of Europe could have joined into an expanded EU rather than NATO. EU would have been far more prosperous working with Russia rather than fighting Russia. Spending money on human development instead of weapons. Getting cheap resources from Russia instead of expensive alternatives from USA.
> 
> No matter how you look at it, Europe is the loser and USA is the winner from this conflict.


How can EU expand to russia when russia would never accept any EU trade rules and democratic and judicial reforms? Russia does not want its economic and trade policies set by Brussels. of course everyone would love it if russia joined the EU. I would be the first to support it. 
But they would have to implement what reforms that are unacceptable to them first. 


WotTen said:


> He was replaced by dynastic oligarchs who have looted the country for decades and want their next generation to continue the family business of looting the country. Meanwhile the masses remain poor and uneducated.
> 
> All the dynastic elite have their children and assets in the West or the oil sheikdoms, from where they come to Pakistan to reign over the unwashed masses as their birthright. The West supports these thieves as long as they do their bidding in foreign policy. Imran Khan dared to stand tall and promote the interests of the Pakistani masses. He will be killed for it.


I dont know enough about this. I thought there were elections in Pakistan? I thought Khan was voted in according to these elections. I thought all the members of parliament got there by the will of the voting public. I'll have to read up about it more.


----------



## Primus

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520856856008220675
> 
> 
> 
> So you don't have an issue with these images? That is the one that was reported to have come from Slovenia to Ukraine.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520774914726408193


Nope. Those look new


----------



## Clutch

Vergennes said:


> Good riddance
> 
> View attachment 839686



Russian Generals should learn from Pakistani Generals and become Real Estate Agents and Letter Couriers, instead send the lower ranking minions to the conflict zones to die.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

WotTen said:


> Here is the root of our disagreement: your side believes Putin would have invaded Eastern Europe sooner or later as part of an Imperial Russian dream; I believe he would have accepted an economic partnership with EU and even joined it.


As I said, he can join the EU of he starts reforming Russia to EU standards. Russia will never do it not because Europe doest want them, but because Russians dont want to. 

Its not easy, but Poland and others did it and you could see the transformation of their society. You go there now and its like western europe almost. 

I know my own original country, Bosnia the massive changes it sees as it reforms to EU standards. even though many politicians resist the change because it interferes with their own corruption. And honesty a lot of people also don't like western freedom and democracy. they just dont know any better. 

Geez I can tell you the difference EU reforms have made in obtaining person documents like ID and passports and drivers licences. No more need to be nice to the people working in the passport office, no need to bribe them, no need to wait in line and unnecessary time wasting. You know exactly what documents you need, you lodge your application, they take you picture, you will get your passport in 14 days and if you dont, heads will roll. Pay extra fees get your documents in 7 days or something. So many reforms, so much better life. 

Russia will never accept it.

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## Ich

thetutle said:


> I dont know enough about this. I thought there were elections in Pakistan? I thought Khan was voted in according to these elections. I thought all the members of parliament got there by the will of the voting public. I'll have to read up about it more.



Yes, there are a lot of fishy things going on there in Pakistan. It looks like classical "the West...land of the free" interference.


----------



## WotTen

thetutle said:


> As I said, he can join the EU of he starts reforming Russia to EU standards. Russia will never do it not because Europe doest want them, but because Russians dont want to.



I can accept that Putin would not want the reforms but the Russian people are basically European in ethnicity and culture. Putin would not like EU but he also would not have invaded it, and Russia would have joined EU after he left office.

I also agree that communist regimes were nightmares for their people. I even posted a thread about Nadia: Book Details Abuse Of Legendary Gymnast And Her Daring Escape From Romania

P.S. Can you imagine an EU including Russia (without Putin)? That was the nightmare scenario that kept American planners up all night, one that had to be sabotaged. Mission Accomplished.

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## thetutle

WotTen said:


> I can accept that Putin would not want the reforms but the Russian people are basically European in ethnicity and culture. Putin would not like EU but he also would not have invaded it, and Russia would have joined EU after he left office.


Their ethnicity is not the issue or obstacle. You have to have the same rules if you are going to have open trade with the EU block. Otherwise one country will have advantage over another. Its all very well laid out. Anyone that adapt the rules can join the EU. Problem is, Russia probably would not survive as a nation if it implemented all EU rules and became a true democracy. Russia as a courtly can only survive if it subjugates a large part of its population. 


WotTen said:


> I also agree that communist regimes were nightmares for their people. I even posted a thread about https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/nadi...st-and-her-daring-escape-from-romania.741097/


I lived there, it was terrible, I assure you. And Yugoslavia had one of the best regimes in Eastern Europe. If not the best one. The other were so bad you would be shot for leaving. Thats how good it was.


----------



## Paul2

WotTen said:


> I can accept that Putin would not want the reforms but the Russian people are basically European in ethnicity and culture. Putin would not like EU but he also would not have invaded it, and Russia would have joined EU after he left office.
> 
> I also agree that communist regimes were nightmares for their people. I even posted a thread about Nadia: Book Details Abuse Of Legendary Gymnast And Her Daring Escape From Romania
> 
> P.S. Can you imagine an EU including Russia (without Putin)? That was the nightmare scenario that kept American planners up all night, one that had to be sabotaged. Mission Accomplished.



The big question.

It's certain, after this is all ends, some part of Russian will look West one way or another, but what the other one will do?

There are no nuclear bases in Moscow, but there are in Urals, Siberia, and the Far East

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## WotTen

Paul2 said:


> The big question.
> 
> It's certain, after this is all ends, some part of Russian will look West one way or another, but what the other one will do?
> 
> There are no nuclear bases in Moscow, but there are in Urals, Siberia, and the Far East



The power structure is in Moscow and is European. The other areas will be defanged if Russia breaks up.


----------



## RescueRanger

Apollon said:


> This is Europe. Nobody dies here in winter.



Off topic but I’ll bite to this bait:

winter mortality continued to be highest in females and people aged 85 and over, and 34.7% of all excess winter deaths were caused by respiratory diseases.









Energy poverty is killing the elderly in Europe - study


A new study has shed further light on the state of energy poverty in the UK, where approximately 2.7 million elderly people in the UK alone rationed their energy usage last winter



www.smart-energy.com


----------



## Paul2

WotTen said:


> The power structure is in Moscow and is European. The other areas will be defanged if Russia breaks up.



Oil, and stuff is not in Moscow obviously.


Food is not in Moscow too btw. Russian food production is the South, and the Far East. They will croak if a major food producing region decides to split, or if not to split, then to keep its grain/soy to itself.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521022750084763648
LMAO

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## thetutle

WotTen said:


> P.S. Can you imagine an EU including Russia (without Putin)? That was the nightmare scenario that kept American planners up all night, one that had to be sabotaged. Mission Accomplished.


Of course I can. It would be great. Americans would be fine with it. The only people that dont want that are Russians who are not given a choice by the regime. Russian regime and the people have another vision. As overlords of other enslaved people. 

Maybe one day russia wil reform when its people get sick of the crappy life they have compared to their western counterparts and they sit at home and think "hey, these poeopel in the west are just like us, how come we life so bad and they live so well". This happened in 1989 and in russia its been forgotten. They will hopefully remember soon.


----------



## Apollon

BHAN85 said:


> Same decadence, that's all.
> 
> China is like the West decades ago, before it f*cked up with social engineering.
> 
> We'll see if die people of cold this winter or not in North-Europe.
> 
> Of course, rich dumbshit kids of EU parlament will give a fck about them.
> 
> In Spain there's people already than can't afford pay electricity bills, since years ago, since 2008 crisis the number has increased. But that people just doesnt exist for EU parlament rich kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> La pobreza energética afecta a 4,5 millones de españoles - companias-de-luz
> 
> 
> Para empezar: ¿Qué es la pobreza energética? La pobreza energética es la situación en la que un hogar es incapaz de pagar por los servicios de energía mínimos para cubrir sus necesidades básicas o deben destinar una gran parte de sus ganancias a pagar la factura del consumo eléctrico de su...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.companias-de-luz.com



The west was never like china. We never had a hive mentality


----------



## Vergennes

Concentration of heavy Russian equipments in the village of Sulyhivka near Izyum being targeted by Ukrainian artillery. 

Videos below ;


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521028699839152128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521023873977888768


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521053873305276416
@Hassan Al-Somal

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521053873305276416
> @Hassan Al-Somal



2 months into the 3 days special military operation and everything's going according to the plan,LMAO.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## Primus

K_Bin_W said:


> Yes they fired a few in A-Stan missed their targets and few landed in Pak.


And thats a how the Babur was born

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## mulj

Well, only some flying objects remained to be destroyed by TB2 😀


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521024978455572481


----------



## Foinikas

Ukraine admits 'Ghost of Kyiv' who slayed 40 Russian planes is a myth


The iconic 'Ghost of Kyiv' fighter pilot who took down 40 Russian warplanes in a valiant defence of Ukraine's capital is just a myth, Kyiv admitted. Slain Major Stepan Tabalka, 29, was wrongly identified.




www.dailymail.co.uk

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## mulj

Zelensky should hire some seasoned diplomatic advisors, you not complain and dictate other countries policies like this, he did this to Germany to. 
Really reckless and ill tought statement by him.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520988963640647681

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Foinikas

mulj said:


> Zelensky should hire some seasoned diplomatic advisors, you not complain and dictate other countries policies like this, he did this to Germany to.
> Really reckless and ill tought statement by him.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520988963640647681


Zelensky thinks everyone should support him and do what he asks,Erdogan thinks he can get away from playing both sides forever. Eventually,they will both lose.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## mulj

Foinikas said:


> Zelensky thinks everyone should support him and do what he asks,Erdogan thinks he can get away from playing both sides forever. Eventually,they will both lose.


No, different situations, what i meant he should contain his emotions, understanble because of savage agression but need some more tact, especially towards friendly countries.
On the other hand you related Turkie totaly unnecessary into his posture, probably because you are biased as greek, they will be fine, to important country for all acters if you observe it out of the frog perspective.


----------



## Foinikas

mulj said:


> No, different situations, what i meant he should contain his emotions, understanble because of savage agression but need some more tact, especially towards friendly countries.
> On the other hand you related Turkie toatly unnecessary into his posture, probably because you are biased as greek, they will be fine to important country for all acters if you observe it out of the frog perspective.


Erdogan has been standing on two boats. Not now,he's been doing it for some years. At some point one side,either the Americans and others in NATO will get tired of him or the Russians will have enough of him. For the time he is ok. But this back and forth thing,changing between USA and Russia,makes him less dependable on everyone's eyes. 

He was on the American side,then went to the Russian side,then tried to get back to the American side,then wanted to become better friends with the Russians,then the war started,now he's trying to be friends with the Americans again,Russians need him for the time being,eventually one or the other will say "time for a regime change".


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521054647989022720

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## mulj

Foinikas said:


> Erdogan has been standing on two boats. Not now,he's been doing it for some years. At some point one side,either the Americans and others in NATO will get tired of him or the Russians will have enough of him. For the time he is ok. But this back and forth thing,changing between USA and Russia,makes him less dependable on everyone's eyes.
> 
> He was on the American side,then went to the Russian side,then tried to get back to the American side,then wanted to become better friends with the Russians,then the war started,now he's trying to be friends with the Americans again,Russians need him for the time being,eventually one or the other will say "time for a regime change".


Well he has luxury to do so as he governs the country with imperail heritage and unique geoghrapical postion.
Wishfull thinking about some backleash is unbased on reality, because of russian agression Turkie will have similar treatment like in cold war, which is comfortable and ideal for their foreign policy and ambitions.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520853260059516930
Paranoia


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520980682390085639
Reality setting in


----------



## Wergeland

mulj said:


> No, different situations, what i meant he should contain his emotions, understanble because of savage agression but need some more tact, especially towards friendly countries.
> On the other hand you related Turkie totaly unnecessary into his posture, probably because you are biased as greek, they will be fine, to important country for all acters if you observe it out of the frog perspective.



Assuming that Zelenskys’ twitter is actually his own writings at all.


----------



## RescueRanger

how propaganda works:






😂

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521017297728647168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521017891797315586

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521018064376156160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521018501602975745

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521024447666429953

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521021315645427714


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521099410175889409


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521029958973415424

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521031627211747330


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521020014815502336


----------



## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521092803815743488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521082976083263488


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Tigr amphibious light tank


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520907156232585218


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521074728013758465


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Western journalism lack ethical value.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521079937956028416


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521066353846718464

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521055453140062209

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521112015498059777

Reactions: Sad Sad:
3


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520743252864942083

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Zelensky thinks everyone should support him and do what he asks,Erdogan thinks he can get away from playing both sides forever. Eventually,they will both lose.



Its not about Zelensky. Its about Europe. Russia simply must lose in Ukraine.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Flight of falcon

RescueRanger said:


> how propaganda works:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 😂




Must be a Ukrainian reporter and his take on Ukrainians winning the war.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## dBSPL

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521022750084763648
> LMAO


I don't know if there has been an example of this before in warfare history... A combatant navy element is detected by the tactical UAV and neutralized with the ammunition fired from the same vehicle. What we see in this video gives an idea of the direction in which inland naval conflicts(even if one side has almost non of surface platforms) may evolve in the coming years.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Its not about Zelensky. Its about Europe. Russia simply must lose in Ukraine.


It's about freemasonry and the new world order. If the Russians are destroyed economically and militarily,who will resist? The lackies in Europe?

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## Ali_Baba

Flight of falcon said:


> Must be a Ukrainian reporter and his take on Ukrainians winning the war.



The war is stalemate right now - Russian 'gains' are incremental relative to the cost in people and equipment.

Ukraine will find it difficult to win by classical definitions - but it "wins" by not losing and by undermining Russia's rationale for the war itself.

Ukraine has to take back Kherson and split the landbridge between Crimea and the Donbass in half... that is all Ukraine has to do - the rationale and justification for the occupation then ends with that as Putin still has to "sell it to his people"..

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> Its not about Zelensky. Its about Europe. Russia simply must lose in Ukraine.



The only way Russia lose is genocide of Russians.


----------



## Wood

Ali_Baba said:


> The war is stalemate right now - Russian 'gains' are incremental relative to the cost in people and equipment.
> 
> Ukraine will find it difficult to win by classical definitions - but it "wins" by not losing and by undermining Russia's rationale for the war itself.
> 
> Ukraine has to take back Kherson and split the landbridge between Crimea and the Donbass in half... that is all Ukraine has to do - the rationale and justification for the occupation then ends with that as Putin still has to "sell it to his people"..


Ukraine's position can improve if western countries decide to pump in more high end equipment. But I don't see that option for Russia.


----------



## RoadAmerica

Tai Hai Chen said:


> War is about profit. Like covid is permanent, war is permanent. There is too much profit at stake. Western military industrial complex earns billions a week selling arms to Ukraine. That's a lot of money.


Russia and China earn billions too from weapons sales, stop blaming the west 🙄


----------



## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521105680710701056

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520743252864942083


I wonder if this equipment has been maintained properly.


----------



## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> It's about freemasonry and the new world order. If the Russians are destroyed economically and militarily,who will resist? The lackies in Europe?



You really step into evry bizarre conspiracy bullshit on the russian orthodox market. 

You forgot Rotschild, Illuminati and ummm idk? Gates?


I prefer to be a lackey in Europe than to live in a pathetic, poor tyranny like russia.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520900922553114626


----------



## F-22Raptor

It’s been 2 weeks since Russias offensive in the east and it looks like they’ve already stalled and suffered significant losses.

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> It’s been 2 weeks since Russias offensive in the east and it looks like they’ve already stalled and suffered significant losses.



Any stalled concentrated offensive is an invitation to roll in an MLRS, and artillery.

Russian formations in the Izyum gap made an area target. This is what is told in first year in military academies: Offensive failed? Don't stay still, disperse ASAP.

Izyum gap is the new north Kiyv killbox, just a little bit bigger. 15000-20000 Russian troops are just waiting there to be hit by artillery, mostly doing nothing.

15000-20000 are directly in Izyum, and around the same number dispersed in the rear guarding supply line in Kupyansk, flank from Khrakiv direction, flank from across Oskil.

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## Paul2

Ali_Baba said:


> The war is stalemate right now - Russian 'gains' are incremental relative to the cost in people and equipment.
> 
> Ukraine will find it difficult to win by classical definitions - but it "wins" by not losing and by undermining Russia's rationale for the war itself.
> 
> Ukraine has to take back Kherson and split the landbridge between Crimea and the Donbass in half... that is all Ukraine has to do - the rationale and justification for the occupation then ends with that as Putin still has to "sell it to his people"..



What we have left is to wait. The decsion to move the newly formed reserve is now on Kiyv.

I am sure that Russian can at least read Western press, and get the idea that Ukraine is preparing at least 1 division, and likely has more than that already.

30k-40k territorials, guards, militarised police, and just armed civilians from East Ukraine were already sent to Donbas frontline in first weeks of the war with minimal preparations.

Ukraine has a reserve at least as big already, and it should be coming East this month, but this time they likely be better armed, and having few weeks of training/exercise.

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## Viet

Clutch said:


> You cannot own technology with lasting value. They day you purchase it, it has lost its value already. It is a transitory platform. Whereas, rare earth elements have intrinsic value. You may think Tesla Microsoft Apple have permanence, but Blackberry, Yahoo, Palm, Compaq may tell a different story.


You are too focus on natural resources, on gold, on things beneath the earth. Brands appear and disappear. That’s called competition. Blackberry is replaced by Apple. Technology remains and does evolution.
Computer is built on the same principles as it was invented.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521053814480158722
The European Union has provided Ukraine with more military, humanitarian and financial aid than the United States. From the end of January to the end of April, aid from the European Union amounted to 12.8 billion euros, and the United States - 10.3 billion euros, according to the Institute for the World Economy in Kiel, Germany.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521094811805274113


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> You really step into evry bizarre conspiracy bullshit on the russian orthodox market.
> 
> You forgot Rotschild, Illuminati and ummm idk? Gates?
> 
> 
> I prefer to be a lackey in Europe than to live in a pathetic, poor tyranny like russia.


Nobody told you to go live in Russia. Are you afraid they will conquer the entire Europe?


----------



## vizier

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521092803815743488
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521082976083263488


The drones are possibly taken out by laser guided manpads(starstreak) as these smaller drones even the larger ones have small ir signatures making it difficult for ir guided manpads to acquire lock. 









Starstreak - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





One thing I noticed about starstreak is it has max altitude about 5km whereas other stinger types have about 3.5km. It is a two stage system the smaller darts gain more velocity and range. Instead of 3 darts I think if there is a single dart developed with laser guidance max altitude can be increased to 6 or even 7km maybe. The guidance will not be as accurate as 3 dart system as a tradeoff but it can engage most medium altitude-long endurance drones operating at those altitudes. There would be more two stage faster and laser guided manpads developed after this conflict seeing extensive usage of low heat drones in all altitudes.

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## dBSPL

An important anecdote: Anka-Aksungur had engage a ship for the first time as part of the Blue Homeland 2022 Exercise, with MAM-L smart munition. In just after aweek, MAM-L hit 2 marine-special operations boats, this time in a real battle environment.

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## dBSPL

The fact that even military targets so inland can be attacked is a grave weakness for Russia, which needs to be addressed at least as much as how the chief of staff was attacked.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521113814158168069


----------



## vizier

dBSPL said:


> An important anecdote: Anka-Aksungur had engage a ship for the first time as part of the Blue Homeland 2022 Exercise, with MAM-L smart munition. In just after aweek, MAM-L hit 2 marine-special operations boats, this time in a real battle environment.


We can also engage with sdbs from longer ranges as Aksungur can carry those as well. Gps-ins + midcourse updates and iir terminal seeker would be long range anti shipping against anti-air armed vessels as well.

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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521161110212288517
Brutal!!!!

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520980682390085639

More than 5.5 million people have left Ukraine since the start of the Russian military operation, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees said. He stated that more than 70.5 thousand people left the country during the past day.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521079573684932614


----------



## Viet

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520900922553114626


Ah Lavrov the liar.
He sees Nazi everywhere but not in Russia.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521059687524884480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521072660272361474


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## Wergeland

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520980682390085639
> 
> More than 5.5 million people have left Ukraine since the start of the Russian military operation, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees said. He stated that more than 70.5 thousand people left the country during the past day.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521079573684932614



Horrible days for people who wanted nothing but to live their normal life. Caught up in a geopolitic struggle between powers. War is filth and will always be the epitome of human pettyness.

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## Viet

Russia's economy could spiral into a depression under an EU oil embargo. An energy analyst breaks down why Moscow won't be able to rely on China and India to fill the gap.​Phil Rosen 
Apr 30, 2022, 8:30 AM 
Download the app



Russian President Vladimir Putin, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, and Chinese leader Xi Jinping at the G20 Summit in Osaka, Japan, on June 28, 2019. Mikhail Svetlov/Getty Images

If the European Union imposes a sweeping Russian oil embargo, it could send Russia's economy into a depression, an analyst told Insider.
Russia will have to slash its oil production because the country has very limited domestic storage capacity, said Kpler's lead oil analyst. 
Moscow will likely turn to China and India to help take on more oil supplies, but they won't be able to fill the gap.

Germany's announcement this week that it's ready to stop buying Russian oil makes a sweeping European Union oil embargo much more likely — which would have devastating consequences for Moscow.

"Russia's economy is projected to contract by more than 10% already this year. If an EU embargo happens, it would likely send the economy spiraling into a depression," Matt Smith, lead oil analyst at markets analytics firm Kpler, told Insider. 

Without European buyers, Russia would need to find somewhere to put roughly 2.5 million barrels a day. Unless Moscow can sell that supply quickly or at least find a place to stash it, there's a strong chance Russia will have to slash its oil production dramatically due to its limited storage capacity, he said. 

Russia could use its extensive network of pipelines as storage space, but that wouldn't hold all the excess supply, Smith explained, adding that unsold crude also could be loaded onto tankers and stored offshore.

But such solutions still wouldn't address the hard-to-fill hole in Russia's economy that an EU embargo would create. Oil export revenue to Europe accounted for 11% of Russia's GDP in 2021, far more than the 2.3%-2.6% that gas exports to Europe comprised, according to the Rhodium Group. 

"A dent in export revenue will ultimately result in significant deterioration in the country's economy," Smith said. "It seems the path of least resistance for Russia will be to cut production, which doesn't come without its own consequences."

*Why Putin can't count on China or India*​India is already set to import Russian crude at a rate of 600,000 barrels per day as the lure of steep discounts outweigh international pressure to cut off business ties.

In the event of an EU embargo, those purchases could increase, and China could also help absorb some of Russia's oil. Smith estimates the two countries, which largely have avoided condemning Moscow for its war on Ukraine, could take in an additional 1 million barrels per day from Russia.

In fact, onshore oil inventories in China are 90 million barrels below their peak from late 2020, Smith noted. If Beijing pivots away from current suppliers, it could replenish its stockpile with heavily discounted Russian oil.

But even if China and India increase Russia energy imports, it remains "highly, highly unlikely" they could absorb 100% of the stranded barrels, he added. 

"India typically imports about 4.5 million barrels per day, so it would be very difficult for them to logistically pull in a huge amount of additional crude given it likely has a significant volume of its imports under long-term contracts from the Middle East," Smith said.

He cited other logistical issues, such as getting insurance for new cargoes or finding enough available vessels to accommodate an influx of oil.

Meanwhile, China's demand for energy has dropped under Beijing's zero-Covid policies, and its own oil refineries have dialed back.

It's still possible China could buy more Russian oil and is simply waiting for an EU embargo to kick in so it can take advantage of steeper oil discounts, he said. But either way, Moscow can expect to generate less oil revenue. 

"Every single dollar a country is paying for Russian oil is funding the war [in Ukraine]. By cutting off those revenues, the goal is to ultimately cut off Russia's ability to continue this war," Smith said.









Russia's economy could spiral into depression under an EU oil embargo


Without European buyers, Russia would need to find somewhere to store or sell roughly 2.5 million barrels a day.



markets.businessinsider.com

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## Vergennes

Paul2 said:


> Any stalled concentrated offensive is an invitation to roll in an MLRS, and artillery.
> 
> Russian formations in the Izyum gap made an area target. This is what is told in first year in military academies: Offensive failed? Don't stay still, disperse ASAP.
> 
> Izyum gap is the new north Kiyv killbox, just a little bit bigger. 15000-20000 Russian troops are just waiting there to be hit by artillery, mostly doing nothing.
> 
> 15000-20000 are directly in Izyum, and around the same number dispersed in the rear guarding supply line in Kupyansk, flank from Khrakiv direction, flank from across Oskil.



Russian military is such an incompetent force,they are still concentrating large number of tanks and troops at the mercy of the artillery.... It is already a carnage but when western artillery systems will come into play it's going to be a disaster. Those who said Russian military adapted are completely wrong.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521135922368106498

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520215353883779072

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520980682390085639
> 
> More than 5.5 million people have left Ukraine since the start of the Russian military operation, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees said. He stated that more than 70.5 thousand people left the country during the past day.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521079573684932614



So I guess that means Ukraine's population has dipped to about 35 million considering Ukraine's population was about 41 million at the start of the year. Of course, this also includes people who live in rebel controlled part of Ukraine.


----------



## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521079937956028416


And it doesn't matter to nato if they apply or not. If they see no need to be a part of nato and feel safe, great stuff. If they become nato. great also.


----------



## thetutle

dBSPL said:


> The fact that even military targets so inland can be attacked is a grave weakness for Russia, which needs to be addressed at least as much as how the chief of staff was attacked.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521113814158168069


This is thousands kilometres away from Ukraine. It must be an accidental fire.

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## sammuel

~



The new t tanks design , :


















T-72B3 main battle tanks which were fitted with raised mesh screens above their turrets.

~


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521159801090322433

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## The SC

The Russian response to the attack on the island of Zmini was not long in coming.. 3 TB2 were downed and much more..

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521189931921645568

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## thetutle

sammuel said:


> ~
> 
> 
> 
> The new t tanks design , not exactly low profile :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T-72B3 main battle tanks which were fitted with raised mesh screens above their turrets.
> 
> ~


they might as well put up a beach umbrella and a deck chair. Same level of protection. 

Poor guy on top of the tank, I bet he wishes he stayed at school and hung out with the smart kids.


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521163525544108034
Insane!!!


----------



## oberschlesier

WotTen said:


> USSR was a Russian show with side actors, just like NATO is an American show with side actors. Everybody knows who calls the shots.


Ukraine was a very important part of the Soviet Union and in someway it was created so big to counter balance Russia, even Putin said it was a construct of Lenin. USSR was a Eastern Slavic show with communist ideaology.

I would not mix it USSR with Russia.



WotTen said:


> Central and Eastern European countries can be welcomed in the EU, but NATO is a military alliance. Any NATO country can veto the addition of a new member, but we all know who calls the shots. What surprises me is that Germany and France allowed NATO to expand when they could have pushed for EU expansion instead, possibly even including Russia eventually.


Well most of the Central-Eastern European countries are already in NATO and EU since 20 years or so. Why Germany or France would block it ? They agreed to both. Is their interest to have the "West" in the West and in the East  The so-called "NATO threat" is mostly a Russian paranoia.


----------



## The SC

A compilation..







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520687114492555265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521062900361621504


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521137661724999680
The video shows a tank battle in which a Ukrainian T-64BV tank attempted to destroy a Russian tank but eventually retreated and shot itself down. Two crew members managed to escape, leaving a third apparently injured or killed as artillery fire covered the mortar crew position.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521085073482727425


Shamil Al-Tayyar, a member of the ruling Justice and Development Party, responded sharply to Vladimir Zelensky's statements regarding Russian tourists in Turkey

He called him a stupid comedian

Zelensky felt insulted by Turkey for accepting Russian tourists. While Turkey did:
Send drones
Accepted thousands of orphans
Delivered hundreds of relief trucks
And you don't blame yourself for missing peace
Then you go tell nonsense on the Greek channel.... you are a stupid comedian


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520882698700660736

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521121951862992896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521117543221628930

Ukrainian local authorities: 
*A major bridge near the border with Poland was hit by a Russian missile*

@AlArabiya_Brk

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521106123109150720

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521052341444689921

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521052350936494081


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521052362928009216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521052372088373248


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521145072032616454

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521244478618562561

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520921736669282305

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521228157961089024


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521237941590372359

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521237943322652674

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521175813055516672

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521235104076554246

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521232093715517441

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## The SC

About the subject of boots on the ground in Ukraine..

Today it was settled by the White House spokesperson Jennifer Rene Psaki .. Concerning a request to Congress:

"Just to be clear: there's no intention or interest or desire by the president to send troops to Ukraine," she went on to say

Joe Biden was clear in his comment on this matter on April 28, 2022 in his testimony he said that we will not send US forces to fight Russian forces in Ukraine, but we will provide military assistance to Ukraine..

Jennifer Rene Psaki added that US President Joe Biden is still unwilling to send US forces to Ukraine

The United States agrees with Russia that there can be no winners in a nuclear war.

And I would say that the Russians themselves have made it clear, over time, including last year, that there is no nuclear war - a nuclear war cannot be won. We agree with that..

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...fing-by-press-secretary-jen-psaki-may-2-2022/

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521268200796786689

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## Piotr

AFU Prisoner Says How He Was Deceived By His Own Command​








AFU Prisoner Says How He Was Deceived By His Own Command







www.bitchute.com

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## The SC

Russian Defense announces the downing of a Ukrainian MiG-29 fighter near Slavyansk

@AlArabiya_Brk

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## Piotr

US founded Nazis:
AFU Brutalizes Own Civilians - Only Video To EVER Get Blocked On My Channel (Why?)​


Spoiler: Graphic












AFU Brutalizes Own Civilians - Only Video To EVER Get Blocked On My Channel (Why?)


Out of hundreds, maybe thousands, of videos, this is the only one ever blocked on my channel. Do not block this video for spreading the truth about the Nazi crimes of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and its Nazi Regime financed by the U.S.A. and NATO.




www.bitchute.com








USA must be proud. After all USA and England founded Hitler.

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## The SC

Colonel Baranes responded sharply to the President of the Czech Republic, who mocked the strength of the Russian army.

Czech President Milos Zeman described the Russian army as weak and ridiculed the idea that it could be "the second army in the world".


In an interview with Politrus:

If Milos Zeman really said such words, then the Czech politician only showed his ignorance. According to the colonel, Zeman speaks in a biased way..

“It sounds like a baby's talk in a sandbox in Prague. This is not a statement of a great statesman, but a statement of an ordinary, evil man blinded by Russia, who wants to bite Russia poisonously ”, believes the retired colonel

Victor Baranets stressed that the strength of the army is not tested the way Zeman believes. If Russia had used all the power of its weapons, Ukraine in two weeks would have been reduced to ashes..

The strength of the Russian army is not currently being tested. In Ukraine, we used only 15-20% of personnel and weapons. We came there with a machine gun in one hand and a loaf of bread for civilians in the other.”

The interlocutor of "Politrossiya" noted that the Russian army is conducting a special military operation in Ukraine, which history will record as unique and humane. The sabotage of the Russian army is aimed not only at combat achievements, but also at saving civilian lives.\

We are at war with the Ukrainian army - a cowardly army hiding behind the backs of pregnant women, children and the elderly.. Kyiv fighters come to apartment buildings, drive their residents to the lower floors, occupy the upper floors themselves - and then begin to conduct hostilities. They are like mice, they can only jump and bite and return to the hole,

The true strength of the Russian army can only be seen on a real battlefield if all the weapons of Russia are fully used. 

Meanwhile, he mentions how the US Army - the most powerful army in the world - demonstrated its capabilities in the Middle East in this way; When the US Army had to capture the city of Raqqa, it just mixed concrete and people in a heap. After the Americans, this city has been reduced to ruins, not even rats live..

Viktor Baranets added that Milos Zeman's statement, written by the media, is nothing more than a populist statement by Russophobia outlets..

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521126487759499264


----------



## Hallian_Khan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521272669525716993


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521128683804758022

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## mhosein

Reports coming out of Kharkiv, where the Russian Federation Military has conducted successful strikes, destroying an entire S-300 complex of the AFU (Armed Forces of Ukraine).

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521257716458704897

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## Hallian_Khan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521271811463335938

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521280654239051777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521275727768915971

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521272669525716993

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## Hallian_Khan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521252464040857601

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521148480009383936

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521200880942526464

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521148501844848640

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521148518752079873

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521148532517875712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521148549781614592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521148578235699200

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## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521122576218656771

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521122821166051329

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521203027604037632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521208871104167939


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## CAPRICORN-88

Seriously I do not understand why the US and Western Media continue to hang on to those fake and frictional story about says "*The Ghost of Kyiv"*.

The Ukrainian Authority thrmselves cornered already admitted that such stories and others were created to lift the low morale of Ukrainian soldiers.

Didn't they awarded posthumous heroic medals to the sailors of Snake Island?

The truth is: These sailors did not resisted the Russian nor fight to the last man as claimed. They were completely cut off.
So they choose to surrender and returned back to their families.

How humiliating it is for the Ukrainian Authority and the US and Western MSM which continued to report about these fake heroism weeks after weeks.

Now I just discovered that the militias engaging in the intense fighting between them and Ukrianian are considered as Russian by Zalensky and his AZOV team. No wonder the people of these provinces wanted Independence. They are not considered as Ukrainians.

In other words, what is happening in Ukraine is in fact a full blown civil war in eastern part.

But the Western MSM choose to stay in Kiev and reporting the none events there instead of where the main battles are raging.

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## The SC

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521148501844848640
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521148518752079873
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521148532517875712
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521148549781614592
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521148578235699200


Not Asiatic.. only Japanese..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521209923752890370
https://twitter.com/r_u_vid/status/...^1521200605993218048|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=


----------



## That Guy

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521148480009383936


Like I said, there is no white nation that doesn't have its armed forced infiltrated by fascist scum. This is why Putin's excuse of denazifying was so hilarious to me, because a good chunk of Russia's army are openly racist.

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## Wood

That Guy said:


> Like I said, there is no white nation that doesn't have its armed forced infiltrated by fascist scum. This is why Putin's excuse of denazifying was so hilarious to me, because a good chunk of Russia's army are openly racist.


Even in Canada there was a fifth estate episode where they described some extremist guys in the army.

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## CAPRICORN-88



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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521278572593250304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521259902827646977

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521258554832818176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521258942298394624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521288397217615872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521289490890776576

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## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Seriously I do not understand why the US and Western Media continue to hang on to those fake and frictional story about says "*The Ghost of Kyiv"*.
> 
> The Ukrainian Authority thrmselves cornered already admitted that such stories and others were created to lift the low morale of Ukrainian soldiers.
> 
> Didn't they awarded posthumous heroic medals to the sailors of Snake Island?
> 
> The truth is: These sailors did not resisted the Russian nor fight to the last man as claimed. They were completely cut off.
> So they choose to surrender and returned back to their families.
> 
> How humiliating it is for the Ukrainian Authority and the US and Western MSM which continued to report about these fake heroism weeks after weeks.
> 
> Now I just discovered that the militias engaging in the intense fighting between them and Ukrianian are considered as Russian by Zalensky and his AZOV team. No wonder the people of these provinces wanted Independence. They are not considered as Ukrainians.
> 
> In other words, what is happening in Ukraine is in fact a full blown civil war in eastern part.
> 
> But the Western MSM choose to stay in Kiev and reporting the none events there instead of where the main battles are raging.


Full blown civil war? You are a joker.
If the separatists are not backed by Russia they will not survive any Ukraine army assault.
If civil war then the Russian army is the ghost of Moscow. Man, Putin has committed the entire land army into the full flown war against Ukraine. Special military operation only exists in his weird head. Putin next step is full general mobilization.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521231344969338880


----------



## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521062027837329408

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## Viet

Ukraine receives long range mobile artillery Panzerhaubitze 2000.
potentially, that can enable Ukraine army to attack positions inside Russia.










(S+) Krieg in der Ukraine: Deutsche Kanonen könnten russisches Territorium beschießen


Mit einigen der schweren Waffen aus deutschen Beständen könnte die Ukraine theoretisch auch russisches Gebiet angreifen. Politisch wäre das besonders heikel. Wie wahrscheinlich das ist.




www.spiegel.de

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## Viet

Ukraine ambassador to Germany, Andriy Melnyk, asks Germany for lend lease act, similar to the US lend lease act.

_"This bill temporarily waives certain requirements related to the President's authority to lend or lease defense articles if the defense articles are intended for Ukraine's government or the governments of other Eastern European countries affected by Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

For FY2022 and FY2023, an agreement to lend or lease defense articles under this bill shall not be subject to certain requirements and provisions that typically apply to such lend-lease agreements, including a requirement that generally prohibits a loan or lease period from exceeding five years.

The President must establish expedited procedures to ensure the timely delivery of defense articles loaned or leased to Ukraine under this bill."_










Trending news: Ukraine offers Germany to pass the law on land lease, as the USA did, - the ambassador - Hindustan News Hub


Ukraine offers Germany to pass the law on land lease, as the USA did, - the ambassador Hindustan News Hub




hindustannewshub.com


----------



## Viet

Germany considers imposing more tougher sanctions on Russia.

In the Interview yesterday Germany gov chief Olaf Scholz says:

"We will not lift the sanctions [against Russia] without the consent of Ukraine”.







UEFA bans Russian teams from Champions League


Russian teams would be banned from competing in the 2022-2023 season of the Champions League, UEFA officials said. Israel has asked Russia to apologize over Sergey Lavrov's Hitler comments. Relive DW's live updates.




amp.dw.com

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Nobody told you to go live in Russia. Are you afraid they will conquer the entire Europe?



Not anymore. They are so pathetic, we wipe them out in Ukraine


----------



## Soldier35

The destruction of the Ukrainian radar for illumination and guidance of the S-300 anti-aircraft missile system by the Russian operational-tactical complex "Iskander-K" was published by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation






Deliveries of Western weapons to Ukraine continue. At the railway station in Stuttgart, Germany, a batch of military equipment sent to Ukraine was found. A German Pzh 2000 SPG equipped with a 155-mm cannon and an American MLRS m270 multiple launch rocket system were spotted on the platform. The Pzh 2000 self-propelled guns are considered one of the best, but there is one problem, the installation has a NATO caliber, so Ukraine will have to look for shells for this weapon in other countries, it does not produce such a caliber. With the MLRS m270 multiple launch rocket system adopted in 1983, the same problem, there are no missiles that are located in rechargeable containers in Ukraine.






Tank battle of a Russian tank with the T-64 of Ukraine. As reported, the Ukrainian tank T-64BV decided to support the soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine who took up defense in the hangars with fire. Having advanced to the battlefield, he fired several shots at the Russian tank and, having missed, decided to retreat. By return fire from a Russian tank, the T-64 of Ukraine was hit,
two crew members left the burning tank, which is unknown with the third.

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Not anymore. They are so pathetic, we wipe them out in Ukraine


Then why do you act like they will conquer all of Europe and they have to be destroyed?

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## RescueRanger

Good article please read:

Deaths of foreign fighters draw renewed attention to the military volunteers in Ukraine.​


May 1, 2022, 2:03 a.m. ETMay 1, 2022
May 1, 2022
Jane Arraf
Reporting from Lviv, Ukraine





Malcolm Nance, a U.S. Navy veteran serving in Ukraine’s International Legion, contrasted the war in Ukraine with the American invasion of Iraq. “You’re the hunted now,” he said.Credit...Finbarr O'Reilly for The New York Times

The deaths of three foreigners killed this week while fighting with Ukrainian forces has drawn renewed attention to thousands of largely unregulated volunteers who have gone to fight Russia’s invasion, some of them accepted into an international legion.

Among the dead was Willy Joseph Cancel Jr., 22, a correctional officer and a Marine Corps veteran who left Kentucky to fight with the Ukrainian army, his uncle said.

Mr. Cancel’s father was told that the former Marine had been killed when his Ukrainian unit was overrun by Russian troops this week, the uncle, Christopher Cancel, said. His body had not yet been recovered.

A Ukrainian Defense Ministry official confirmed on Friday that an American, a Briton and a Dane had been killed fighting with the Ukrainian Army’s International Legion. The official asked not to be identified because he was not authorized to speak publicly about the deaths.

“The armed forces pay tribute to the sacrifice of the foreign heroes who have come to protect the Ukrainian people from this barbarous invasion but also to defend freedom and democracy everywhere,” the legion said in a statement.

Malcolm Nance, a Navy intelligence veteran and former TV commentator who is now the public face of the legion, called the volunteers who died “protecting angels, along with all those people who lost their lives in this senseless Russian invasion.”

In an interview before the foreign fighters were killed, Mr. Nance said many would-be volunteers arriving in the country underestimated the danger from Russian forces. He said the war was unlike what American veterans may have experienced in the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq.

“You’re the hunted now,” he said. “And it is a full combined arms army with an enormous artillery machine that is there to chew you up.”

Ukraine and Russia have each had steep military losses, though their governments have not given specific figures. In mid-April, U.S. intelligence agencies estimated that 5,500 to 11,000 Ukrainian troops had been killed, and more than 18,000 wounded. Western intelligence agencies estimate that Russian military losses range from 7,000 to 10,000 killed and 20,000 to 30,000 wounded.

The United Nations says at least 2,300 civilians have also been killed, acknowledging the actual number is likely much higher.

After signing up a rush of volunteers at the start of the war, the International Legion recently has become much more selective in recruiting members, taking only those with combat experience who pass rigorous vetting, according to the legion’s spokesman, Damien Magrou, a Norwegian lawyer.

Mr. Magrou said the legion rejects a majority of applicants, but some of those who are turned down make their way to the front lines anyway, hoping to find another group to fight with.

“We tell them there is a shuttle bus back to Poland, the best thing you can do is get a seat on it,” he said.

President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine announced the formation of the legion on Feb. 27, three days after the invasion began, and invited foreign volunteers to come and fight. Ten days later the Ukrainian government said it had received 20,000 applications.

The government has declined to say how many foreign volunteers there are in the country, but there are believed to be several thousand, most of them fighting with groups other than the International Legion.

It was not clear when Mr. Cancel joined the legion. According to the Marine Corps, he left the U.S. military last November after receiving a bad conduct discharge and serving time in a military jail for an undisclosed criminal offense.
Fighters accepted by the International League sign a contract to fight with the Ukrainian army and are paid the same rate as Ukrainian soldiers.

In Lviv, in western Ukraine, train and bus stations have become hubs not only for Ukrainians, but also for Americans and other foreigners arriving to join the fight or help with aid efforts.

Dominick Henry, a businessman from New York City who was recently in Ukraine helping with logistics for volunteers, said he tried to channel most of the new arrivals into humanitarian operations.

“Usually when Americans go fight they’ve got air support, they’ve got everything,” he said. “This time it’s the opposite.”
He said many of those who came to Ukraine to fight the Russians were disappointed when they were rejected by combat forces.

“They come for glory and honor,” said Mr. Henry. “They think it will give them a leg up in life. It’s a heavy price to pay.”

Jane Arraf is the Baghdad bureau chief. She has covered the defining events of Iraq’s history for three decades, as well as many equally important stories that never made it into the history books. @janearraf

Source:









Deaths of foreign fighters draw renewed attention to the military volunteers in Ukraine.


At least three foreigners have been killed fighting with Ukraine’s International Legion. One analyst said many would-be volunteers underestimated the danger from Russian forces.




www.nytimes.com


----------



## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Then why do you act like they will conquer all of Europe and they have to be destroyed?



Because that was Putins goal. Now its up to us to crush them so they can never harm their neighbors anymore.


----------



## Apollon

German Zeit magazine reports that all russian ground offensives appear to have stopped.


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Because that was Putins goal. Now its up to us to crush them so they can never harm their neighbors anymore.


How do you know that was Putin's goal? Can you read his mind?


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Viet said:


> Full blown civil war? You are a joker.
> If the separatists are not backed by Russia they will not survive any Ukraine army assault.
> If civil war then the Russian army is the ghost of Moscow. Man, Putin has committed the entire land army into the full flown war against Ukraine. Special military operation only exists in his weird head. Putin next step is full general mobilization.


STOP TROLLING amd GO HOME.


----------



## thetutle

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521148480009383936


Wow, I love it. Listen up you Somalian and other "Z" worshippers. A fine gentlemen explained everything to you, he even had a Z on his cap. "all children are the same to us and wil be protected if they are white skinned and born on our slavic land"!!!



This is what every russian thinks deep down. well not every, but vast vast majority. It would be total folly to think any non white person has a bright future in an Imperial russian resurgence.

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## thetutle

The SC said:


> Not Asiatic.. only Japanese..


lol, you think Russians differentiate between Japanese and Chinese. They look the same to every white person. Russians are no different to other white people in this regards, except that they are more racist and unashamedly so.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521396837722505218


----------



## Paul2

What Russia has in the field now?

Troops: 40-48 thousand frontliners, 30-40 support, including police duty

Vehicles: 3300-3800 with ~one hundred of very old light armour reserve arriving each week. Just 400-500 tanks left. All scattered across eastern front, with few paratrooper/marine tanks in Kherson region.

Tank losses were crushing for the Russian force.

A force built along the lines of USSR military doctrine without its tanks, is a tiger without fangs.


----------



## Vergennes

Apollon said:


> German Zeit magazine reports that all russian ground offensives appear to have stopped.



Despite the "second phase" of the 3 days special military operation,the Russians have only made small gains at the cost of heavy losses in the donbass... Ukraine not lacking motivated men to defend their motherland + the western world flooding Ukraine with modern weaponry things aren't looking great for the Russians.....

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## CAPRICORN-88

The disinformation about Russo-Ukrainian conflicts reminded me of the propaganda campaign by the VC during the days of NAM.

The truth is Russia never really bother to offer much information but it is indeed shaping up the war in Ukraine.
Except this one, as the war rages on, every days hundreds of Ukrainian and AZOV neo-NAZI battalion soldiers are being killed.

As we speak, the militia of the breakaway Republics and Russian forces are now closing in on *Papasnaya* and steamrolling down towards *Odessa*.
Yesterday Odessa airfields were destroyed by missiles.

Here is a joke of the day.

*Zalensky said Ukraine will not signed any peace deal unless Russia surrender.

   *

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## CAPRICORN-88

When the conflicts got started in Feb, *Ukrainian Military was estimated to have between 2500~3500 Armour vehicles and tanks. *

But now they are begging for them to be supplied from the US and NATO. 

So what has happened to all their armour vehicles and tanks. 

Keep in storage for the next beauty parade or what? 

It seems that the Ukrainian and AZOV Forces are now simply *confiscating private vehicles to be used as transports for the troops.*

A theory as revealed by some bloggers. 

They were crippled and destroyed by the Russia forces and militia. With all their maintenance facilities destroyed by Russian air strikes, they are left lying all over Ukraine. 

Then the Ukrainian reservists repainted them with white letter Z and V, then destroyed once more using the FREE ATGM supplied and posted on social media.

Do make senses to me.

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## Vergennes

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> When the conflicts got started in Feb, *Ukrainian Military was estimated to have between 2500~3500 Armour vehicles and tanks. *
> 
> But now they are begging for them to be supplied from the US and NATO.
> 
> So what has happened to all their armour vehicles and tanks.
> 
> Keep in storage for the next beauty parade or what?
> 
> It seems that the Ukrainian and AZOV Forces are now simply *confiscating private vehicles to be used as transports for the troops.*
> 
> A theory as revealed by some bloggers.
> 
> They were crippled and destroyed by the Russia forces and militia. With all their maintenance facilities destroyed by Russian air strikes, they are left lying all over Ukraine.
> 
> Then the Ukrainian reservists repainted them with white letter Z and V, then destroyed once more using the FREE ATGM supplied and posted on social media.
> 
> Do make senses to me.



As @gambit said once ;









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments






defence.pk





Meanwhile in the real world and not in your "lalaland"


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521414327890231298
Russian airborne troops command post struck by Ukrainian artillery


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521444398671740928


----------



## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> How do you know that was Putin's goal? Can you read his mind?



He openly said it. Lissabon to Vladivostok. Eurasian Empire. All this duginist bullshit.

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## CAPRICORN-88



Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> Ukraine receives long range mobile artillery Panzerhaubitze 2000.
> potentially, that can enable Ukraine army to attack positions inside Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (S+) Krieg in der Ukraine: Deutsche Kanonen könnten russisches Territorium beschießen
> 
> 
> Mit einigen der schweren Waffen aus deutschen Beständen könnte die Ukraine theoretisch auch russisches Gebiet angreifen. Politisch wäre das besonders heikel. Wie wahrscheinlich das ist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.spiegel.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 840345


no it can't the longest range shell have 65km of range and the normal shells 30-35km


----------



## Foinikas

CAPRICORN-88 said:


>


Hey @Apollon here's your democratic human rights Ukraine

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521415408489844737

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521416210570784769

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521418735092916225

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521421947384565760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521365855841390593

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Hey @Apollon here's your democratic human rights Ukraine



I dont watch chinese bullshit.


On a sidenote. Its not about Ukraine. Its about to crush tyranny russia. Ukraine is no threat for Europe, Russia is

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> I dont watch chinese bullshit.
> 
> 
> On a sidenote. Its not about Ukraine. Its about to crush tyranny russia. Ukraine is no threat for Europe, Russia is


Hey dick,it's not "Chinese" bullshit. It's footage from Ukrainians. From Ukrainians themselves. Watch and learn.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> I dont watch chinese bullshit.
> 
> 
> On a sidenote. Its not about Ukraine. Its about to crush tyranny russia. Ukraine is no threat for Europe, Russia is



America is the biggest threat to Europe. America wants to unite the entire human race under a single hegemony. That is not acceptable.

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## Wood

thetutle said:


> Wow, I love it. Listen up you Somalian and other "Z" worshippers. A fine gentlemen explained everything to you, he even had a Z on his cap. "all children are the same to us and wil be protected if they are white skinned and born on our slavic land"!!!
> 
> 
> 
> This is what every russian thinks deep down. well not every, but vast vast majority. It would be total folly to think any non white person has a bright future in an Imperial russian resurgence.


These type of fighters are the key ideological fighters of Z brigade. Rest are just ethnic minority mercenaries. They are caught in this Slavic civil war. As per official figures from Moscow, Russia's Slavic casualties in war is very small. Most people who have died are from ethnic minority regions like Dagestan etc.

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Hey dick,it's not "Chinese" bullshit. It's footage from Ukrainians. From Ukrainians themselves. Watch and learn.



Does the footage help to crush russias pathetic army?

Guess not. So i dont care.



Wood said:


> These type of fighters are the key ideological fighters of Z brigade. Rest are just ethnic minority mercenaries. They are caught in this Slavic civil war. As per official figures from Moscow, Russia's Slavic casualties in war is very small. Most people who have died are from ethnic minority regions like Dagestan etc.



Its an aspect that should be on the table. Decolonisation must also be done on russia.


----------



## Wood

Apollon said:


> Its an aspect that should be on the table. Decolonisation must also be done on russia.


That is not in Western interest. Balkanization of Russia will lead to more Chinese client states. Only favorable outcome for Europe is a friendly and federal Russian Empire. Federalism in Russia is important to make sure that Moscow can be manipulated when it gets bright ideas 🤔


----------



## DF41

Tai Hai Chen said:


> America is the biggest threat to Europe. America wants to unite the entire human race under a single hegemony. That is not acceptable.


USA desperately trying to do that before USA spiral into abject bankruptcy and imploding into outright civil wars internally

And to be laughed at and despised even more by all countries around the world .






USA deathly scared of their impending implosion and bankruptcy.

And being laughed and mocked at and ridiculed by the rest of the world

USA trying her best to pull rest of the world down before USA spiralling into bankruptcy


----------



## Broccoli

Wood said:


> That is not in Western interest. Balkanization is Russia will lead to more Chinese client states. Only favorable outcome for Europe is a friendly and federal Russian Empire. Federalism in Russia is important to make sure that Moscow can be manipulated when it gets bright ideas 🤔



Russia is already too big for it's budget. 

If there is a +100 million population combined with huge landmass but poor economy then problems will arise even during peace time. Russia is also heavily corrupted making things worse.

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## Wood

Broccoli said:


> *Russia is already too big for it's budget. *
> 
> If there is a +100 million population combined with huge landmass but poor economy then problems will arise even during peace time. Russia is also heavily corrupted making things worse.


Relative to western countries, this is true. But Russia is richer than many other countries.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521472529671598080

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## Broccoli

Wood said:


> Relative to western countries, this is true. But Russia is richer than many other countries.



Many countries what are far smaller than it.

Btw, life expectancy in Russia is lower than in Bangladesh, Jamaica, Palestine, Iran, Syria and many other countries what are on paper much poorer.

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## The SC

It is reported that the Russian armed forces launched an attack on Azovstal.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521449658903678976


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521433119181742081

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521437979830534144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521471422907965441

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521472412067545089


----------



## The SC

Al-Arabiya correspondent in Donetsk Raed Al-Agbar: The Russian army is advancing slowly in Donbass and takes control of two cities, amid the Ukrainian army's retreat to the west

@AlArabiya

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521457766027649025

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## The SC

A picture from the Russian side that is said to show the bombing of a Western aid warehouse in Odessa....The picture shows the MiGs










__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521431499748356096

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521445240074346498

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521431919526825984


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521425917855289344


----------



## mhosein

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521122576218656771
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521122821166051329
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521203027604037632
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521208871104167939



Wishful thinking above and reality below











Western hypocrisy and lies continue to unravel at break neck speed!!

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521375118022299648


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521415692779941891

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Does the footage help to crush russias pathetic army?
> 
> Guess not. So i dont care.


You don't care to be educated on some matters? Ok. Put your head in the sand and shout "sieg heil".



RescueRanger said:


> Malcolm Nance, a Navy intelligence veteran and former TV commentator who is now the public face of the legion, called the volunteers who died “protecting angels, along with all those people who lost their lives in this senseless Russian invasion.”


Are these the people they went to protect?

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## The SC

Finland agrees to join NATO next week - media

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521040201291870208


----------



## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> You don't care to be educated on some matters? Ok. Put your head in the sand and shout "sieg heil".
> 
> 
> Are these the people they went to protect?
> 
> View attachment 840513



Dude seriously. Those people do not murder, rape and destroy cities. Putin and his goons are doing that. 


Russia is facist to the core. And Russia will be damaged to the point where it cant murder, rape and destroy anymore. 

5th column traitors in Europe are already silenced.


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Dude seriously. Those people do not murder, rape and destroy cities. Putin and his goons are doing that.
> 
> 
> Russia is facist to the core. And Russia will be damaged to the point where it cant murder, rape and destroy anymore.
> 
> 5th column traitors in Europe are already silenced.


Watch the video and then you'll see who is the fascist. Just watch it.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521263037457571853


----------



## Corax

WWII was a reluctant war fought by the British and the US. The Nazis were natural allies of the British, and wanted them onside, hence the appeasement if Hitler by the Chamberlin government. It's only when Hitler started to appose British and US interest did war breakout. We're now seeing Europe and the US supporting their inherent ideology of the Nazis in Ukraine. It's a shame Trump isn't in power.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521150727405641729




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521264895446114305


----------



## Ich

Not the Ruble is rising, Dollar and Euro are falling...

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521268142311448577

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521237841308798984

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521495385403019267

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521166583103729673

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521052815992438786

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521027654266331139


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521478125485543424
Times change, but people do not


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521499675710402564


----------



## thetutle

Wood said:


> That is not in Western interest. Balkanization of Russia will lead to more Chinese client states. Only favorable outcome for Europe is a friendly and federal Russian Empire. Federalism in Russia is important to make sure that Moscow can be manipulated when it gets bright ideas 🤔


I think you're right on that one. Break up of russia is probably not ideal. China would expand in the area, probably take back outer Manchuria.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521496058530078721

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521467946085748736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521435336869650432


----------



## F-22Raptor

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521467946085748736
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521435336869650432




Russia would get annihilated by NATO. Their a piss poor excuse for a military.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521401399325728768

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## Basel

Viet said:


> Aha that russo oil depot is 150 km from Ukraine. What happening?
> A storm causes fire and the ammo explodes?



There were news that west is now sending heavy weapons like SPAs, MBRLs etc. It could be work of US long range MBRLs.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521135285362434048


----------



## jamahir

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521495385403019267



Now listen to this Indian military officer :





Please stop your senseless propaganda.

Tagging you @Wood since you wow reacted to his post.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520717343344807936


----------



## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Watch the video and then you'll see who is the fascist. Just watch it.



I dont watch it. No matter what facist groups exist in Ukraine. The facist mega threat is Russia. Russia is the enemy, with a bizarre and crazy dictator. Where 80% of population are hardcore nazis.



Corax said:


> WWII was a reluctant war fought by the British and the US. The Nazis were natural allies of the British, and wanted them onside, hence the appeasement if Hitler by the Chamberlin government. It's only when Hitler started to appose British and US interest did war breakout. We're now seeing Europe and the US supporting their inherent ideology of the Nazis in Ukraine. It's a shame Trump isn't in power.



Why do you think should Europe support a facist tyrant in Russia?


----------



## Corax

jamahir said:


> Now listen to this Indian military officer :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please stop your senseless propaganda.
> 
> Tagging you @Wood since you wow reacted to his post.



And stop your incessant bollywood propaganda and inserting anything related to india into this thread, no one gives a flying fcuk. As for "secular" india, yeah right, tell that to the hindutva hindu fascists running your country.



Apollon said:


> I dont watch it. No matter what facist groups exist in Ukraine. The facist mega threat is Russia. Russia is the enemy, with a bizarre and crazy dictator. Where 80% of population are hardcore nazis.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you think should Europe support a facist tyrant in Russia?



Europe has and still does support far worse regimes. They're actively supporting the Ukrainian ne-Nazis because it's an opportunity to weaken Russia, it's openly admitted by the US. The only reason for that is because Russia is the only country able to threaten the US with nuclear weapons still, the same with China. The other nuclear countries (Pakistan, india, Israel, N. Korea) don't really pose a nuclear threat to the US.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520371107014000641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521187791371124736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520628339052003328

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jamahir

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521495385403019267



Watch this talk by Sam Manekshaw, a legend in Indian military circles :





@Wood, you will certainly know him.



Corax said:


> And stop your incessant bollywood propaganda and inserting anything related to india into this thread, no one gives a flying fcuk. As for "secular" india, yeah right, tell that to the hindutva hindu fascists running your country.



Incessant Bollywood propaganda ? When have I ever done that ? And that vid and the one above isn't about glorifying India at large and I am sure that officer would dislike what is happening in India now. As for "into this thread" this is a thread about a major world conflict whose effects are acting upon the world and India is very much in this world. If you can't allow that then don't post anything from Britain in this thread.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521496058530078721


Declaration of war will be yet another admission from Putin that 'all is not according to plan'. But this is not good for Ukraine because it will allow Russia to mobilize the manpower that it needs to fight the war. One would hope Putin's hubris to hang around for longer

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521472412067545089

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521458263040139265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521451908736729090

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521458071943397376


----------



## Corax

jamahir said:


> Watch this talk by Sam Manekshaw, a legend in Indian military circles :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Wood, you will certainly know him.
> 
> 
> 
> Incessant Bollywood propaganda ? When have I ever done that ? And that vid and the one above isn't about glorifying India at large and I am sure that officer would dislike what is happening in India now. As for "into this thread" this is a thread about a major world conflict whose effects are acting upon the world and India is very much in this world. If you can't allow that then don't post anything from Britain in this thread.



What has anything you just posted have anything to do with the Russia/Ukraine war?!  you indians are such petty minded ingrates. Take your indian BS to the relevant section of the forum and stop polluting this thread, like you do with the rest of the world.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

jamahir said:


> Now listen to this Indian military officer :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please stop your senseless propaganda.
> 
> Tagging you @Wood since you wow reacted to his post.


IF this guy ran India, thinks might be ok. But he does not, he seems to be some army officer. The country is run by people that kill beef eaters and demolish mosques.

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> dont watch it. No matter what facist groups exist in Ukraine. The facist mega threat is Russia. Russia is the enemy, with a bizarre and crazy dictator. Where 80% of population are hardcore nazis.


Ρε άστα αυτά και δες το βίντεο. Μάθε μπαλίτσα! Μάθε μπαλίτσαααα! 😝


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521456252294991872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521064631233560577

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521512697443008512

Reactions: Like Like:
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## nang2

Apollon said:


> I dont watch it. No matter what facist groups exist in Ukraine. The facist mega threat is Russia. Russia is the enemy, with a bizarre and crazy dictator. Where 80% of population are hardcore nazis.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you think should Europe support a facist tyrant in Russia?


Haha, apparently what you have upon your shoulders is not a brain. It is a TV.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521502643029434371

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521496091841241088

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

Briefing of the Russian Ministry of Defense (03.05.2022)

_*▫️*_ The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue a special military operation in Ukraine.

_*💥*_ Onyx high-precision missiles in the ODESSA region hit a logistics center at a military airfield through which foreign weapons were delivered. Hangars with Bayraktar TB2 unmanned aerial vehicles, as well as missile weapons and ammunition from the United States and European countries, were destroyed.

_*💥*_ High-precision air-based missiles during the night of the Russian Aerospace Forces defeated six military facilities in Ukraine. Among them: a protected command post, an ammunition depot near the settlement of SLATINO, as well as four areas of concentration of manpower and military equipment.

_*💥*_ Operational-tactical and army aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces hit 69 strongholds, areas of concentration of manpower and military equipment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

_*💥*_ Missile troops hit the command posts of the 81st airmobile brigade in the area of the settlement of DOLINA and the 77th territorial defense brigade in the area of PODOLOVKA, Kharkiv region. Also, in the KULBAKINO area of the Nikolaev region, the launcher of an anti-aircraft missile system was destroyed
S-300.

_*💥*_ Artillery units hit 54 artillery firing positions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, 38 strongholds, as well as 195 areas of concentration of manpower and Ukrainian military equipment. Up to 230 nationalists and 52 units of weapons and military equipment were destroyed.

_*💥*_ Russian air defense systems destroyed six Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles overnight in the areas of settlements: BEREZOVKA in the Odessa region, BORSCHEVAYA and CHERNESCHINA in the Kharkiv region, BARVINOK in the Kherson region and MIKHAILOVKA in the Donetsk People's Republic. In addition, a Ukrainian Tochka-U ballistic missile was shot down in the air in the DMITROVKA area and two Smerch multiple rocket launchers were shot down in the IZYUM area.


****/levigodman/1343

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## jamahir

Corax said:


> What has anything you just posted have anything to do with the Russia/Ukraine war?!  you indians are such petty minded ingrates. Take your indian BS to the relevant section of the forum and stop polluting this thread, like you do with the rest of the world.



Mr. Corax, this post makes for 339 posts of mine in this thread and I have been posting here since the beginning of the operation. Whereas you are just here. Stop being idiotic. Second thing for you to stop being idiotic is to understand the context of why I posted that vid.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521064631233560577



@mmr @Wood @F-22Raptor @Vergennes @Messerschmitt and co., your "brave and humanitarian" Zelensky's predecessors for whom Zelensky is not asking for forgiveness.

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## Novus ordu seclorum

Crimes against humanity.


----------



## nang2

Novus ordu seclorum said:


> Crimes against humanity.


Media is always biased. Let's see how the same woman's interview is reported by different sides. Judge it by yourself. @Apollon is excused since he is just a TV.

Version #1: On SouthFront. The last video on the following page, which provides a transcript.



https://southfront.org/testimonies-of-survivors-from-catacombs-of-azovstal-in-mariupol/



Version #2: On NBC

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521474281632595968


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521354469153271808

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

Looks like Vlad undergos cancer surgery. Its obvious he is very sick...will be interesting how things go.









Putin To Undergo Cancer Treatment, Hand Over Power, Claims US Media Report


Russian President Vladimir Putin might undergo cancer surgery while temporarily handing over power to the secretary of the country's Security Council Nikolai Patrushev, an unverified report by US's New York Post has claimed.




www.ndtv.com







Corax said:


> And stop your incessant bollywood propaganda and inserting anything related to india into this thread, no one gives a flying fcuk. As for "secular" india, yeah right, tell that to the hindutva hindu fascists running your country.
> 
> 
> 
> Europe has and still does support far worse regimes. They're actively supporting the Ukrainian ne-Nazis because it's an opportunity to weaken Russia, it's openly admitted by the US. The only reason for that is because Russia is the only country able to threaten the US with nuclear weapons still, the same with China. The other nuclear countries (Pakistan, india, Israel, N. Korea) don't really pose a nuclear threat to the US.



Fun fact, Russia is a facist tyranny that planned to dominate europe. Thats why we crush them like a bug. We dont want a europe dominated by a disgusting regime like russia.



Foinikas said:


> Ρε άστα αυτά και δες το βίντεο. Μάθε μπαλίτσα! Μάθε μπαλίτσαααα! 😝



No i dont watch it, it changed nothing that Russia must lose in Ukraine. Its an imperative. If Russia would win in Ukraine, Europe would be doomed.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521537362039382016

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521537214445936640

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521536756918718465

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Novus ordu seclorum

nang2 said:


> Media is always biased. Let's see how the same woman's interview is reported by different sides. Judge it by yourself. @Apollon is excused since he is just a TV.
> 
> Version #1: On SouthFront. The last video on the following page, which provides a transcript.
> 
> 
> 
> https://southfront.org/testimonies-of-survivors-from-catacombs-of-azovstal-in-mariupol/
> 
> 
> 
> Version #2: On NBC


Can't compare the two. The whole testimonial does not make Russia look any better.


----------



## nang2

Novus ordu seclorum said:


> Can't compare the two. The whole testimonial does not make Russia look any better.


It is not the comparison that is interesting. It is what is missing from NBC version that is interesting. MSM is very reluctant to show the resentment of those civilian hostages held by Ukrainian military towards Ukraine. They want to show the suffering of those people but they won't tell you who is responsible for that. They certainly don't want to show you that it is Russians who constantly try to save those civilians. That would be a very hard pill for their audience to swallow, like what @Apollon has demonstrated.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521445654240894977

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521520498974330881

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
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## Viet

Broccoli said:


> Many countries what are far smaller than it.
> 
> Btw, life expectancy in Russia is lower than in Bangladesh, Jamaica, Palestine, Iran, Syria and many other countries what are on paper much poorer.


That’s a very realistic scenario. Russia with shrinking population, shrinking income will become a version of Bangladesh. No offense to bangladesh people. Moscow is the richest metropolis in Russia however judging the clothes people wear on videos the people look poor.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521547344180822016


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521551959085535232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521551961484627975

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Broccoli

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521512697443008512



Good for Finland that croat president cannot stop it.

Russians can enjoy extra 1300km border with NATO.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521545926875176961

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521512867811545088

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RoadAmerica

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> STOP TROLLING amd GO HOME.


Where’s your home again?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521497125607067648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521452061149343744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521174272395337728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521065299033927680


----------



## Viet

Ah cool. Russia tests Germany air defense.
2x German Typhoons intercepted a Russia spy plane in northern sector.









Alarmstart der Luftwaffe: Russische Militärmaschine fliegt vor Rügen – Bundeswehr greift ein


Binnen weniger Tage taucht das russische Militär wiederholt im westlichen Ostseeraum auf. Vor der deutschen Küste reagiert eine Eurofighter-Alarmrotte flugs.




amp.tagesspiegel.de

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521545727264055300

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521547364653223939

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521542128320589835

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521540790450900997

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521529414269509634

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521558349908746241

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521472252218331137


----------



## Wood

Who is Nikolai Patrushev, Russian reportedly in charge during Putin’s cancer recovery?


Nikolai Patrushev is the secretary of Russia’s Security Council, an influential body that answers directly to Putin and issues guidance on military and security issues within Russia.




nypost.com





Seems like Putin is going to undergo cancer surgery. His successor may be this guy







Russian Security Council Secretary Nikolai Patrushev

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## F-22Raptor

Russia continues to get pushed out of Kharkiv. They will have to redeploy forces there or face defeat. I don’t know how they can sustain forces in the east without Kharkiv

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Corax

Apollon said:


> Looks like Vlad undergos cancer surgery. Its obvious he is very sick...will be interesting how things go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin To Undergo Cancer Treatment, Hand Over Power, Claims US Media Report
> 
> 
> Russian President Vladimir Putin might undergo cancer surgery while temporarily handing over power to the secretary of the country's Security Council Nikolai Patrushev, an unverified report by US's New York Post has claimed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ndtv.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fun fact, Russia is a facist tyranny that planned to dominate europe. Thats why we crush them like a bug. We dont want a europe dominated by a disgusting regime like russia.
> 
> 
> 
> No i dont watch it, it changed nothing that Russia must lose in Ukraine. Its an imperative. If Russia would win in Ukraine, Europe would be doomed.



Fun fact, Europe is already dominated by a tyranny, it's called the US and NATO. Just do what your master tells you like a good boy. The Russians simply want to protect fellow ethnic Russians from US and European backed neo-Nazis, but you and your US masters can spin and sell it however you want, it won't change facts.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521566968943370240

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Wow Wow:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521387607875325953


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521568264761098240

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia continues to get pushed out of Kharkiv. They will have to redeploy forces there or face defeat. I don’t know how they can sustain forces in the east without Kharkiv



Kharkiv is 20 km from Russian border. To be honest Russian artillery has enough range to shell Kharkiv from Russian soil. So no biggie there. When Donbas is done Kharkiv offensive will start.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521511185660661760


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521511185660661760



Seems very little. Boris Johnson should go big or go home. If I were Boris Johnson. Bam. 300 Typhoon combat jets. 10 Type 45 destroyers. 1,000 AS-90 self propelled howitzers, 2,000 Challenger 2 main battle tanks.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RoadAmerica

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521401399325728768


Look at the volume of ruble trades, it’s practically nothing hence the value easily sustained by the central government. That’s the really easy break down for you, I can go further if you’d like. 
The ruble is trash!


----------



## Ich

RoadAmerica said:


> Look at the volume of ruble trades, it’s practically nothing hence the value easily sustained by the central government. That’s the really easy break down for you, I can go further if you’d like.
> The ruble is trash!



Well, the Ruble isnt rising. Dollar and Euro are falling.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521478962479865857


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521580200315793408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521590246877634569

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521594222155083781

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521566390934818817

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RoadAmerica

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Seems very little. Boris Johnson should go big or go home. If I were Boris Johnson. Bam. 300 Typhoon combat jets. 10 Type 45 destroyers. 1,000 AS-90 self propelled howitzers, 2,000 Challenger 2 main battle tanks.


And with the above they could take over China 
🤣


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521592043398643712


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521597513169522688


RoadAmerica said:


> And with the above they could take over China
> 🤣



Are you serious? China is a fortress. You need to do amphibious assault. And J-20 eats Typhoon for breakfast, lunch, dinner, dessert.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521574729487953922

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521591906727350273

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521583297301725186

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521583933565116416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521572203929681925

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521581990146936834

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521591405516369920


----------



## denel

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia continues to get pushed out of Kharkiv. They will have to redeploy forces there or face defeat. I don’t know how they can sustain forces in the east without Kharkiv


No need to worry; there is a Kremlin coup in the works and if it succeeds; Tsar Putin is going to be put out of his misery.









Kremlin on high alert as coup rumours grow in Moscow: Disgruntled generals join FSB looking to oust Putin and end Ukraine war


Rumours are swirling in Moscow that a number of former generals and KGB officials are preparing to oust Russia's president Vladimir Putin and plan to end




www.cityam.com

Reactions: Love Love:
1 | Wow Wow:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521588411525648389

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521551731406118913


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521567973701562376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521538030154268675


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521597180666068992


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521608241213579265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521611414867267589

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521612994186252290

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521615681581637633


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521575755100139520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521511351239249920


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521518539546533890

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521609714269782016

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521608241213579265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521610014431002624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521614916683288576


----------



## The SC

How Putin's Invasion is Changing Our World Forever​


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> How Putin's Invasion is Changing Our World Forever​



Meh. There is war every day since dawn of humanity. Just because you don't see it in the news doesn't mean it's not happening.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Paul2

Paul2 said:


> What Russia has in the field now?
> 
> Troops: 40-48 thousand frontliners, 30-40 support, including police duty
> 
> Vehicles: 3300-3800 with ~one hundred of very old light armour reserve arriving each week. Just 400-500 tanks left. All scattered across eastern front, with few paratrooper/marine tanks in Kherson region.
> 
> Tank losses were crushing for the Russian force.
> 
> A force built along the lines of USSR military doctrine without its tanks, is a tiger without fangs.



I see it clearly now, Russians will be dug in, while dispensing few force recon parties per week for this whole month.

At most, they have 40k frontline troops on the engagement line in the East.

That's a huge number without a doubt. Since they are not moving anywhere, their logistics burden is low.

Also, spring has come, and soldiers in the field can now sleep in the field.

All military specialists I track on Twitter say Russia has around 550-500 tanks. My count is lower, 400-500. There are also no large tank formations being spotted these days. They all dispersed, probably hoping that Ukrainians will have harder time defending on a wider front, and that they are still afraid of a breakthrough possibility.

Russians are certainly forcing Ukrainians into attrition warfare, but Ukrainians didn't take the bait so far.

My prediction: Russians will not make any dramatic last ditch offensive, and keep aggression to a minimum, like to a few sacrificial force recon parties per week, to last longer.

I am even more confident now that Russian force in the East been literally ordered to just stand, and weather it while limiting losses.

I don't see it working. Them betting on Ukraine exhausting before them will only work if they themselves can keep exhausting Ukrainians.

Ukrainians been holding the Donets line for 8 years, and have all preparations for a long siege, and the Izuym—Severodonetsk line was also a defence line prepared long before the war.

At most, Russian will get a bleeding siege line for until the winter, when their troops will have to retreat from the field to some semblance of minimal field bases (which will need to be built,) or die from cold. All this when Russia will be dealing with troubles internally.

Russia can try repeating The First Strait Crisis on land, and "freeze" the conflict at low level of intensity, but I don't see this feasible, well, since there is no Taiwan Strait in between Russia, and Ukraine now, beside a line of ravines, bogs, and washes.

Ukraine has all chances to plainly overmatch Russian offensive, and overcome its defensive potential on a number of frontline segments if they keep growing its reserves at its current rate for 2 months.

The question for me now is whether Ukrainian army will start a counteroffensive attempt with 1 division, or wait for a second to be formed, or more AA, and armour to arrive.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521615681581637633

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521621043353473025


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521624468166225922

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521579918584426496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521624030511603712


----------



## K_Bin_W

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Seems very little. Boris Johnson should go big or go home. If I were Boris Johnson. Bam. 300 Typhoon combat jets. 10 Type 45 destroyers. 1,000 AS-90 self propelled howitzers, 2,000 Challenger 2 main battle tanks.


You want to bankrupt an already struggling economy.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

K_Bin_W said:


> You want to bankrupt an already struggling economy.



Just print the money. Boris already spent trillions on covid anyway.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521617069145427968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521614045102546945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521606680014123008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521605802405994496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521605111528652801

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521602009547173888


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521426787883880448


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521572841677799428


----------



## The SC

US Secretary of Defense: The task of controlling weapons sent to Ukraine lies with Kyiv

@AlArabiya_Brk




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521590176430141440


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> US Secretary of Defense: The task of controlling weapons sent to Ukraine lies with Kyiv
> 
> @AlArabiya_Brk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521590176430141440
> The price of the battle for Ukraine will be high, but the war must be a strategic defeat for Russia - Biden
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521589939816775680



Napoleon can't beat Russia. Hitler can't beat Russia. Biden is too old to beat Russia.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

The price of the battle for Ukraine will be high, but the war must be a strategic defeat for Russia - Biden


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521589939816775680
This is the scariest and saddest part of it.. just the potential of this even..

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

Kyiv: Russian forces are trying to advance into the Donbass region from the north


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521594095415742464







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521592696607059970


----------



## thetutle

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521512697443008512


This guy has been bought by Russians it seems. He wont be able to stop Finland joining.


----------



## The SC

thetutle said:


> This guy has been bought by Russians it seems. He wont be able to stop Finland joining.


Possible.. but the best guess is that he doesn't want further escalation and widening of the conflict..


----------



## thetutle

Broccoli said:


> Good for Finland that croat president cannot stop it.
> 
> Russians can enjoy extra 1300km border with NATO.


He's a total maniac. The Prime minister thinks he's ready for the mental asylum. At one point he used to be quite normal socialist politician, until Russian money came.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521590977147854849
Urgent Financial Times: Independent refiners in China start buying Russian oil at deep discounts

@AsharqNewsBrk



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521603053748641793


----------



## thetutle

The SC said:


> Possible.. but the best guess is that he doesn't want further escalation and widening of the conflict..


lol, no he's not.


----------



## The SC

Ramzan Kadyrov: We caught a big western fish trying to escape from the Azovstal factory and sent it to the great fisherman Vladimir Putin as a gift on the occasion of Eid al-Fitr.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521629309257015296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521623725522706432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521563313649373184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521550962846052353

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CAPRICORN-88

RoadAmerica said:


> Where’s your home again?


Basically it is none of your business.

So where is your Nazi hideout?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521581440181358594

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521616555137720320


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521565492049334274

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521593931724730370

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521588519986241539

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521579707002728455

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521582481241260035


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

When Trump started all these nonsense of sanctioning individuals, i have opined and reminded all the viewers that the US in setting the precedence, all this will returned to haunt the US and the West. China did just that and now Russia is also doing just that. 

Who can you blame?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521544404623933444

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521545625707368448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521638754414436352


----------



## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521651223631437826

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521645540093669376


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Although this report was from 3 years ago, it was largely ignored in the West and censored by the US. 

And yet today they show so much concern for Ukrainians ignoring the atrocities and genocidal killing by the Ukrainian AZOV neo-NAZI battalion in Donbass and Lugansk.


----------



## RoadAmerica

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521597513169522688
> 
> 
> Are you serious? China is a fortress. You need to do amphibious assault. And J-20 eats Typhoon for breakfast, lunch, dinner, dessert.


It was a joke since what you suggested was triple the size of the UK’s assets. 
And based on Russian hardware this far and the fact that China fields mostly Russia hardware, my reply wasn’t too crazy.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

*Zalensky* in proclaiming that he will never signed a peace agreement unless Russia surrender has just signed Ukraine peace option away. 

*The DEATH of a nation. Ukraine. *

The message is so analogous to those of the US and NATO. 

Eastern part of Ukraine will be stabilized and will become independent from Ukraine. 
Unfortunately the war will raged on for years in the rest of Ukraine for a very long time like what the US did to Syria. 

How unfortunate.


----------



## RoadAmerica

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Basically it is none of your business.
> 
> So where is your Nazi hideout?


Dude you’re a fool, you’re too embarrassed about you’re country I get it.
I’m from the great USA and proud of it!


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521664548880543745

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521665275304718336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521665275304718336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521656258465390592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521655296875122688


----------



## Elvin

Russia can’t win in Ukraine, and the west supports Ukraine with blank checks and sophisticated weapons. The goal is simple, make Russia weaker! It is already working and the longer this war drags out the more Russia will lose. This was a strategic mistake.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Elvin said:


> Russia can’t win in Ukraine, and the west supports Ukraine with blank checks and sophisticated weapons. The goal is simple, make Russia weaker! It is already working and the longer this war drags out the more Russia will lose. This was a strategic mistake.



Russia's goal is keeping Ukraine weak and impoverished and it's working alright. Also, war rejuvenates Russia and keeps Russia's birth rate afloat.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521283677656961026
The most important influence on the next president of America


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521673990028378114


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521336301357776898

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## CAPRICORN-88

Today Russia claimed that they have destroyed or captured most of foreign weapons delivered to Ukraine than the pace the US and West can manufactured. 

Corroborated with the Ukrainian demand for more weapons. 

Strange war, this proxy war is and as usual the usual trolls in here are hailing the Ukrainians to die and at a faster rate. 

They are more interested in body count. 

Meanwhile I just read a report that some in US are blaming China as the reason for the worldwide inflation.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521324392197804032


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521662091547004930

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## F-22Raptor

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521662091547004930



As an American taxpayer, the annihilation of the Russian military has my full support.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## Song Hong

Angelina Jolie in Ukraine on her attention seeking trip again.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521571565103685636

Reactions: Haha Haha:
6


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521591101110509569

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
2


----------



## Oldman1

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521591101110509569

Reactions: Love Love:
1


----------



## PakFactor

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521571565103685636



Dumbest motherfucker the people elected, makes Trump look intelligent.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
4


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521581787822055425

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## PakFactor

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521662091547004930



No, the idiots would contribute and the smart ones will use various vehicles to shelter funds to avoid paying taxes for shit that doesn't concern them and not burn money away unnecessarily.



Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521581787822055425



Now you know these woke people using shit excuses "men" and "boys", Lol?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521571565103685636



This guy needs to step down immediately.


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512823870012723204
> 
> I believe there’s 10,000 Starlink terminals in Ukraine.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521115986711175168

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Oldman1

Hamartia Antidote said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521115986711175168


Good advertisement. Even in war, can still stay connected to the internet.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## kingQamaR

superb a drone with a starlink uplink could be controlled from anywhere data / info / pics can be in another country in seconds another feather in the cap Mr Musk , given a suitable battery it could fly into Russia


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521694019813785602


----------



## kingQamaR

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521581787822055425



Remember this is a nation of people that used to dob in their elderly parents to the Russian state so they could have an extra loaf of bread. No ethics, no empathy, no morals


----------



## Oldman1

kingQamaR said:


> superb a drone with a starlink uplink could be controlled from anywhere data / info / pics can be in another country in seconds another feather in the cap Mr Musk , given a suitable battery it could fly into Russia











U.S. Air Force Tests SpaceX’s Starlink Internet Aboard F-35 Lightning II Aircraft


Featured Image Source: United States Air Force/Todd Cromar The United States Air Force (USAF) is testing SpaceX’s Starlink Internet service aboard Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II aircraft. The 388th Fighter Wing’s Operations Support Squadron Cyber Airmen are actively assessing multiple...




www.tesmanian.com





U.S. Air Force Tests SpaceX’s Starlink Internet Aboard F-35 Lightning II Aircraft​

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


----------



## sammuel

~

Interesting Trailer :








~


----------



## DF41

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521592043398643712





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521592043398643712









【喀秋莎】同志们！伏特加！乌拉！！!_哔哩哔哩_bilibili


感谢审核君辛苦了 乌拉！！！原视频：BV1SW411R7QU感谢：花樱茉莉 已授权 另外感谢：他姐姐救我




www.bilibili.com


----------



## Viet

Wood said:


> Who is Nikolai Patrushev, Russian reportedly in charge during Putin’s cancer recovery?
> 
> 
> Nikolai Patrushev is the secretary of Russia’s Security Council, an influential body that answers directly to Putin and issues guidance on military and security issues within Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nypost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like Putin is going to undergo cancer surgery. His successor may be this guy
> 
> View attachment 840611
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Security Council Secretary Nikolai Patrushev


Xi looks unhappy. The handshake is weak. Xi probably says to himself, oh no, not another spy. Seriously, China sees Russia no different to other countries: a gas station. From the news, Russia imports 2/3 of consumer products from China. Incredibly high percentage. Why not from Vietnam or Bangladesh? The only explanation is the chinese demand Moscow to buy chinese products otherwise they will no longer a communist friend.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521670420856033282

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521397473851633665


----------



## Viet

Lavrov runs amok. He double downs on his Nazi attack against Israel.
Now Israel considering "defensive systems that protect troops on the ground, personal combat gear and warning systems," according to the leading Israeli newspaper Haaretz. That will go to Ukraine.






__





Top Zelensky aide: Lavrov shows Russia a threat to Jews, Israel can't stay on fence | The Times of Israel







www.timesofisrael.com

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521149117384200192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521688457009115137

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521609714269782016


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521666679658450945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521703426526175233


----------



## The SC

Al-Arabiya correspondent: Huge military movements in eastern Ukraine.

alarabiya.net


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521717119662100480


----------



## Trango Towers

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *Meanwhile according to Harvard University, US economy on the Q1 2022 has contracted.*
> 
> Will US President Biden be remembered as a Wartime President?


They knew the economy was contracting and decided to create a scenario in which Russia would have no choice but to attack Ukraine



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521717119662100480


UN is the most undemocratic institution on the planet. The permanent 5 can veto any resolution if it doesn't suit them and its designed to punish only non white and non western nations. The west uses the UN to forward their agenda.
It should be disbanded

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Trango Towers said:


> They knew the economy was contracting and decoded to create a scenario in which Russia would have no choice but to attack Ukraine
> 
> 
> UN is the most undemocratic institution on the planet. The permanent 5 can veto any resolution if it doesn't suit them and its designed ro punish only non white and non western nations. The west uses the UN to forward their agenda.
> It should be disbanded


Germany will replace Russia in UN Security Council.


----------



## Wergeland

Trango Towers said:


> They knew the economy was contracting and decoded to create a scenario in which Russia would have no choice but to attack Ukraine
> 
> 
> UN is the most undemocratic institution on the planet. The permanent 5 can veto any resolution if it doesn't suit them and its designed ro punish only non white and non western nations. The west uses the UN to forward their agenda.
> It should be disbanded


Winner write the rules.
Its upto the rest to create a substitute for the UN. No one has done it yet. Which tells a lot.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521681716481605633

Reactions: Haha Haha:
3


----------



## Indos

Stop for a while and listen this.........


----------



## Apollon

Corax said:


> Fun fact, Europe is already dominated by a tyranny, it's called the US and NATO. Just do what your master tells you like a good boy. The Russians simply want to protect fellow ethnic Russians from US and European backed neo-Nazis, but you and your US masters can spin and sell it however you want, it won't change facts.



Go and visit Russia. Then you see a tyranny. Im a free man with a living standard unknown to 99% of russians. 


Also if russia wants to protect russians they should start in russia. Russians live under extreme poverty, low life expectancy, corription and violence.


----------



## Trango Towers

Viet said:


> Germany will replace Russia in UN Security Council.


Loooool replace. Why Germany when its a nuclear club
Why not Israel South Africa pakistan or India? 

You do talk some interesting stuff looool


----------



## Trango Towers

Wergeland said:


> Winner write the rules.
> Its upto the rest to create a substitute for the UN. No one has done it yet. Which tells a lot.


Because most countries are under the influence of the west. This will change now...clear lines are being drawn. West vs China and Russia


----------



## Ali_Baba

Vladimir Putin’s military cupboard is bare


With the Donbas offensive running out of steam, and increasing resentment at home, the Russian president has no good options remaining




www.telegraph.co.uk

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ali_Baba said:


> Vladimir Putin’s military cupboard is bare
> 
> 
> With the Donbas offensive running out of steam, and increasing resentment at home, the Russian president has no good options remaining
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.telegraph.co.uk


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521752167119478784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521784020731842561

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521789289037766656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521788898606825473

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521790278272753665

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521790905308651520

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## RescueRanger

DF41 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521681716481605633


Im getting serious hashish Afghan Army vibes from that video.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521775619670949888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521793051856973825

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521807529151537155

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521811521910751232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521716055554420736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521708000020353024


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521815601962156032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521815070539661315

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521790730598973440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521789524086431744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521749308705370114

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521720572278820864


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521775619670949888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521780550138482689

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521751885652410368


----------



## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## sammuel

Ali_Baba said:


> Vladimir Putin’s military cupboard is bare
> 
> 
> With the Donbas offensive running out of steam, and increasing resentment at home, the Russian president has no good options remaining
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.telegraph.co.uk




He actually has a very good option , and that is to end this stupid war.

By now Putin knows this this is not some " special operation " , no matter how long they will keep calling it that,

This would likely involve months of war and years of sanctions , no one can predict the outcome of and full effect of.

And for what go through that ? for a few parts of Ukraine ? Cant the great Russia survive without those parts ?

But Putin can spare us all this months of fighting . There are so many clips of tanks exploding online now , so there is really no need for any more wars to reproducer more of the same clips.

As for as I am concerned this can be the last war to end all wars.

You see to armies firing at each others with some monstrous canons from 40km away. Metal beats like in some revelation from the book of Daniel , on the forth beast :

"* in my vision in the night, suddenly a fourth beast appeared, and it was terrifying—dreadful and extremely strong—with large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed; then it trampled underfoot whatever was left. "*

Daniel 7:7


" with large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed; then it trampled underfoot whatever was left . . . :



It is really time to stop this madness , there is no need for humanity to see war again.

This could be the last war. No more war no more bloodshed.

This was the vision of all the prophets for the end of days.

Yet people forget is that it is with in our power to achieve that , we do have to wait to some devine miracle to see it materialize.

~


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521815118295838723

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521759577745891330

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## -=virus=-

@vaginess

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521756941088968704


----------



## zartosht

Kherson and other Russian captured areas are now using the ruble, 
And recieving full salaries/pension from Russia

RIP ukraine 1991-2022

Ukraine will turn into a cautionary geopolitical tale in history. Of how a nation dies, once CIA rats get their tentacles in and turn it into an outpost for american geopolitical advancement

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521826193955250179

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521826193955250179



I know you Americans aren't used to adequate education, but you should read and check the sources you're posting more carefully. Scroll down the Twitter thread, those pics are from Indonesia.

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
1 | Like Like:
7 | Haha Haha:
1


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521834188613300226


----------



## zartosht

-=virus=- said:


> View attachment 840736
> 
> 
> @vaginess



Underrated post

Je suis ukraine?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## Wergeland

Trango Towers said:


> Because most countries are under the influence of the west. This will change now...clear lines are being drawn. West vs China and Russia



China isnt even trying to be a policeman. Russia is a declining power. 

TBH i dont see how this is gonna work.


----------



## -=virus=-

zartosht said:


> Underrated post
> 
> Je suis ukraine?


they can go to hell 

this is the Ruskies PUTINg and end to a Corpse Biden led endless military expansion.. about time someone showed them their place

long time a comin'
but when it came

boy

was no seasonal rain 

:solo:


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

sammuel said:


> He actually has a very good option , and that is to end this stupid war.
> 
> By now Putin knows this this is not some " special operation " , no matter how long they will keep calling it that,
> 
> This would likely involve months of war and years of sanctions , no one can predict the outcome of and full effect of.
> 
> And for what go through that ? for a few parts of Ukraine ? Cant the great Russia survive without those parts ?
> 
> But Putin can spare us all this months of fighting . There are so many clips of tanks exploding online now , so there is really no need for any more wars to reproducer more of the same clips.
> 
> As for as I am concerned this can be the last war to end all wars.
> 
> You see to armies firing at each others with some monstrous canons from 40km away. Metal beats like in some revelation from the book of Daniel , on the forth beast :
> 
> "* in my vision in the night, suddenly a fourth beast appeared, and it was terrifying—dreadful and extremely strong—with large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed; then it trampled underfoot whatever was left. "*
> 
> Daniel 7:7
> 
> 
> " with large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed; then it trampled underfoot whatever was left . . . :
> 
> 
> 
> It is really time to stop this madness , there is no need for humanity to see war again.
> 
> This could be the last war. No more war no more bloodshed.
> 
> This was the vision of all the prophets for the end of days.
> 
> Yet people forget is that it is with in our power to achieve that , we do have to wait to some devine miracle to see it materialize.
> 
> ~



You can't end something you did not start. If the people of Kiev did not do Euro Maidan and then shelling the people of Donbas since 2014, there be no war.



zartosht said:


> Kherson and other Russian captured areas are now using the ruble,
> And recieving full salaries/pension from Russia
> 
> RIP ukraine 1991-2022
> 
> Ukraine will turn into a cautionary geopolitical tale in history. Of how a nation dies, once CIA rats get their tentacles in and turn it into an outpost for american geopolitical advancement



Ukraine died in 2013 with Euro Maidan.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Trango Towers

Wergeland said:


> China isnt even trying to be a policeman. Russia is a declining power.
> 
> TBH i dont see how this is gonna work.


Only the whites have the instinct the enslave nations and they have done it for centuries. Even today African nations no longer ruled by France pay 100s of million to France


----------



## F-22Raptor

-=virus=- said:


> they can go to hell
> 
> this is the Ruskies PUTINg and end to a Corpse Biden led endless military expansion.. about time someone showed them their place
> 
> long time a comin'
> but when it came
> 
> boy
> 
> was no seasonal rain
> 
> :solo:




Your kidding right? The Russian military is getting obliterated. They are significantly weaker now. NATO grows even stronger with the entrance of Finland and Sweden.

Russia has strategically lost. The US and the West have clearly won.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> The US and the West have clearly won.



Come back to me in 50 years. Whites are already down to 55% in the US. How long do you think America can last as a power?


----------



## -=virus=-

F-22Raptor said:


> Your kidding right? The Russian military is getting obliterated. They are significantly weaker now. NATO grows even stronger with the entrance of Finland and Sweden.
> 
> Russia has strategically lost. The US and the West have clearly won.


they may have 

but they won the tactical battle against NATO+Ukies..


----------



## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> Your kidding right? The Russian military is getting obliterated. They are significantly weaker now. NATO grows even stronger with the entrance of Finland and Sweden.
> 
> Russia has strategically lost. The US and the West have clearly won.








Still too early to assume anyones victory. War could go either way.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521820784859172864


F-22Raptor said:


> Russia has strategically lost. The US and the West have clearly won.


----------



## lcloo

Corax said:


> I know you Americans aren't used to adequate education, but you should read and check the sources you're posting more carefully. Scroll down the Twitter thread, those pics are from Indonesia.


Yes, the photo was taken in Indonesia. Note the word "Hanggar" in the photo. Hanggar is an Indonesian word for Hangar.

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## Trango Towers

F-22Raptor said:


> Your kidding right? The Russian military is getting obliterated. They are significantly weaker now. NATO grows even stronger with the entrance of Finland and Sweden.
> 
> Russia has strategically lost. The US and the West have clearly won.


Yes they are being destroyed yet the keep taking land...amazing. I just don't get it

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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521815601962156032
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521815070539661315
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521790730598973440
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521789524086431744
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521749308705370114
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521720572278820864


The Russians don’t understand. Western sanctions increase the costs on Russia and certainly on the West. Sanctions not going to prevent any war. Least this Ukraine war. As Biden puts it, It’s just how long either sides can bear the costs. And don’t forget consider this: while the western kids can enjoy McDonald’s meals, russian kids can’t. Russia is cut off from trades, finance, stock exchanges, bonds markets, diplomacy, cultural and everything else.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> The Russians don’t understand. Western sanctions increase the costs on Russia and certainly on the West. Sanctions not going to prevent any war. Least this Ukraine war. As Biden puts it, It’s just how long either sides can bear the costs. And don’t forget consider this: while the western kids can enjoy McDonald’s meals, russian kids can’t. Russia is cut off from trades, finance, stock exchanges, bonds markets, diplomacy, cultural and everything else.



The more the West bullies Russians, the stronger Russians become. If you want to beat Russians, you have to do genocide. Kill every Russian man, woman, child with WMD.

Napoleon could not beat Russians. Hitler can't beat Russians.


----------



## RescueRanger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521854245082963977

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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> The more the West bullies Russians, the stronger Russians become. If you want to beat Russians, you have to do genocide. Kill every Russian man, woman, child with WMD.
> 
> Napoleon could not beat Russians. Hitler can't beat Russians.


Very possible
If Ukraine can acquire nuclear weapons.
Lavrov will shut up immediately.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Very possible
> If Ukraine can acquire nuclear weapons.
> Lavrov will shut up immediately.



A nuke doesn't do much. Even if Moscow is nuked, Russian Borei subs will flatten Kiev with 100 nukes.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521841436425179136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521837059081752578

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521837209556598786


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521876703504654336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521876856877821953

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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> A nuke doesn't do much. Even if Moscow is nuked, Russian Borei subs will flatten Kiev with 100 nukes.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521841436425179136
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521837059081752578
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521837209556598786


You don’t need to kill a person 100 times. If Ukraine still has nukes the war would not happen. Putin is crazy but not crazy enough to invade to risk own annihilation.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521877939033452545

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521878624412000257

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## Apollon

Trango Towers said:


> Only the whites have the instinct the enslave nations and they have done it for centuries. Even today African nations no longer ruled by France pay 100s of million to France



Oh really? How are Tibetans doing?


Btw Russia is no power. Economy weaker than spain and a weak military.


----------



## Hydration

Viet said:


> You don’t need to kill a person 100 times. If Ukraine still has nukes the war would not happen. Putin is crazy but not crazy enough to invade to risk own annihilation.


 yknow russia has the ability to shoot down icbms which ukraine lacks


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> Btw Russia is no power. Economy weaker than spain and a weak military.



Okay. But Spain don't dare to invade Russian land and let's see what happens to Spain if they do.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521864893208662016


----------



## Apollon

Trango Towers said:


> Because most countries are under the influence of the west. This will change now...clear lines are being drawn. West vs China and Russia




You mean west vs China, russia plays no role on global stage. Its economy is miniscule, its army is weak.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> You mean west vs China, russia plays no role on global stage. Its economy is miniscule, its army is weak.



Russia is weak but invade Russia and see what happens. Napoleon did that and got killed. Hitler did that and got killed.


----------



## Apollon

Hydration said:


> yknow russia has the ability to shoot down icbms which ukraine lacks



You sure about that? Russia has not even the ability to shot dowm ukrainian helicopters which blow up ammo and fuel depots in russia. Russia cant even protect its own flagship. I would be very careful about russian abilities.


----------



## Hydration

i like how twitter is the primary source fueling this wars information hub lol

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## RescueRanger

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia is weak but invade Russia and see what happens. Napoleon did that and got killed. Hitler did that and got killed.


The only thing he’s invading is his fridge.



Hydration said:


> i like how twitter is the primary source fueling this wars information hub lol

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## Apollon

Another weapon and tank manufacturing plant in Russia is on fire








Russia already has massive problems to refill stocks.


Silly accidents 


@Viet @Foinikas @Vergennes

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## nang2

Hydration said:


> i like how twitter is the primary source fueling this wars information hub lol


Twitter is nothing but an attention grabbing machine. It does so on purpose by limiting the size of each post. So Twitters are trying to drum up the sensation as much as they can with each post on a tiny little screen real estate.

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## gambit

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Come back to me in 50 years. Whites are already down to 55% in the US. *How long do you think America can last as a power?*


Beyond your grandchildren's lifetime.

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## RescueRanger

nang2 said:


> Twitter is nothing but an attention grabbing machine. It does so on purpose by limiting the size of each post. So Twitters are trying to drum up the sensation as much as they can with each post on a tiny little screen real estate.


I honestly believe the time has come for a new social media platform 😂

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## Corax

gambit said:


> Beyond your grandchildren's lifetime.



All global powers will come to an end, maybe not in your or my lifetime, but the US will come to an end, and probably catastrophically as most global powers do.

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## The SC

Moscow says "Israeli mercenaries" are fighting alongside the "Azov" battalion in Ukraine


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521837814815485953

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521838383705862144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521839154379767810


----------



## nang2

RescueRanger said:


> I honestly believe the time has come for a new social media platform 😂


I think all social media platforms are essentially the same. They are like parties or bars where everyone tries to have fun with short and quick conversations. They are great at exchange of information. But for any serious subjects, people need to slow down in order to think clearly. Parties aren't the place for doing that.

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## Corax

The SC said:


> Moscow says "Israeli mercenaries" are fighting alongside the "Azov" battalion in Ukraine
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521837814815485953
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521838383705862144



That's because they are, there was a post on here showing a video of Israeli ex-servicemen in Ukraine with Azov neo-nazis. Not surprising really when Israel is essentially a right-wing fascist state dressed up in the garb of "democracy", like much of the West.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ka-52 films Su-24M2 attack


----------



## RescueRanger

nang2 said:


> I think all social media platforms are essentially the same. They are like parties or bars where everyone tries to have fun with short and quick conversations. They are great at exchange of information. But for any serious subjects, people need to slow down in order to think clearly. Parties aren't the place for doing that.


100 percent agreed - I just want to see a social media platform like second life where “politically charged” debates end up in massive brawls 😂

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521838302889926657

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521827514922016769


----------



## Viet

Hydration said:


> i like how twitter is the primary source fueling this wars information hub lol


Don’t laugh on Twitter. Information is money. Technology is money. Russia with 140 million people only has one software company. If Putin pours money to how making life better, Russia would be better off. And not a gas station with low living standard. They don’t need to steal shoes from others.


----------



## nang2

RescueRanger said:


> 100 percent agreed - I just want to see a social media platform like second life where “politically charged” debates end up in massive brawls 😂


Unfortunately, the amazing progress made by Internet technology has successfully tapped into human weakness. It used to take some effort and money to go to bars/cafes/parties, etc, to have such a conversation or a brawl . And it doesn't take you all day as there is a limit on how much alcohol or caffeine you can take. Now, it can hook you in all day long and it is "free"!

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## RescueRanger

nang2 said:


> Unfortunately, the amazing progress made by Internet technology has successfully tapped into human weakness. It used to take some effort and money to go to bars/cafes/parties, etc, to have such a conversation or a brawl . And it doesn't take you all day as there is a limit on how much alcohol or caffeine you can take. Now, it can hook you in all day long and it is "free"!


Well said 😂


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521826464638947328

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## Corax

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521826464638947328



Already posted, those pictures are from Indonesia 🤦‍♂️

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## nang2

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521826464638947328


This one was busted earlier by someone, who unfortunately earned a negative rating, probably for insulting American education . The picture was taken in Indonesia.

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## The SC

Viet said:


> Don’t laugh on Twitter. Information is money. Technology is money. Russia with 140 million people only has one software company. If Putin pours money to how making life better, Russia would be better off. And not a gas station with low living standard. They don’t need to steal shoes from others.


Stop disseminating your own ignorance and propaganda here..

Top Russian Software Companies​https://www.goodfirms.co/directory/country/top-software-development-companies/ru

And these *50* are just the top ones..






nang2 said:


> This one was busted earlier by someone, who unfortunately earned a negative rating, probably for insulting American education . The picture was taken in Indonesia.


Most likely they don't want to show where in Poland..because they can be easily tracked by Russian satellites..So they used these delivery pics in Indonesia..

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## Viet

Germany delivers another arms package to Ukraine. Drone defense and artillery localization.









Deutschland will Radargeräte an Ukraine liefern


Die Rüstungsindustrie soll der Ukraine Radargeräte zur Drohnenabwehr und Artillerieortung zur Verfügung stellen. Dafür will die Bundesregierung 50 Millionen Euro zahlen.




app.handelsblatt.com










*Radarsystem „Cobra“*

Die Ukraine soll modernes Ortungsgerät aus Deutschland erhalten.

Bild: EADS Cassidian





Das Cobra-System (Counter Battery Radar) ist das weltweit wohl fortschrittlichste Waffenortungssystem 
Quelle: Sebastian Gollnow/picture alliance/dpa


----------



## thetutle

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia is weak but invade Russia and see what happens. Napoleon did that and got killed. Hitler did that and got killed.


Napoleon got killed din russia? its good to hear some alternative history.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521824593400455168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521831102255611907


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521801055226507265


----------



## thetutle

Apollon said:


> Another weapon and tank manufacturing plant in Russia is on fire
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia already has massive problems to refill stocks.
> 
> 
> Silly accidents
> 
> 
> @Viet @Foinikas @Vergennes


They shouts really invest more in occupational safety. One accident after another.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Germany delivers another arms package to Ukraine. Drone defense and artillery localization.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deutschland will Radargeräte an Ukraine liefern
> 
> 
> Die Rüstungsindustrie soll der Ukraine Radargeräte zur Drohnenabwehr und Artillerieortung zur Verfügung stellen. Dafür will die Bundesregierung 50 Millionen Euro zahlen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> app.handelsblatt.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Radarsystem „Cobra“*
> 
> Die Ukraine soll modernes Ortungsgerät aus Deutschland erhalten.
> 
> Bild: EADS Cassidian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Das Cobra-System (Counter Battery Radar) ist das weltweit wohl fortschrittlichste Waffenortungssystem
> Quelle: Sebastian Gollnow/picture alliance/dpa



Easily destroyed by Russian armed drones.








thetutle said:


> Napoleon got killed din russia? its good to hear some alternative history.



Napoleon lost most of his army in Russia. He didn't have enough soldiers left to keep fighting and was captured and killed.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521605430308397058

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521847884857151489

Russian strikes in Lviv leave a quarter of a million people without electricity


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521837056699166720


----------



## nang2

thetutle said:


> Napoleon got killed din russia? its good to hear some alternative history.


It may be more fruitful to ask him on what breakfast he just had.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521605430308397058


Throughout the video, I didn't see the red/white arm/leg bands. Couldn't the video maker do a better job to be more convincing?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521894801603497985

Russia now over 3,400 losses


----------



## nang2

thetutle said:


> The Chinese education system has failed you.


Now someone please gives him a negative rating.

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## jamal18

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Napoleon lost most of his army in Russia. He didn't have enough soldiers left to keep fighting and was captured and killed.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521749857068883969


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> The Chinese education system has failed you.



Napoleon was winning before he invaded Russia. Hitler was winning before he invaded Russia. Biden was winning before he invaded Russia. Russia will end Biden.

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## Dalit

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Napoleon was winning before he invaded Russia. Hitler was winning before he invaded Russia. Biden was winning before he invaded Russia. Russia will end Biden.



Slowly but surely. I want to see this sleepy Joe get defeated at the hands of Putin. It is personal on many levels.

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## The SC

The European Parliament calls for the redrafting of all EU treaties to determine the future of the continent



https://twitter.com/AlArabiya_Brk


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521902754343661569

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521902917225168897

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521889660884201472


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521890547732037636

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521830866435158016


----------



## letsrock

thetutle said:


> Napoleon got killed din russia? its good to hear some alternative history.


You are king of alternate facts here. "Nazis aint so bad'."famine is same as genocide." Nazis had jews as scapegoat you got russia as your scapegoat.

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## sammuel

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Napoleon could not beat Russians. Hitler can't beat Russians.



Only this time it is putting behind the invasion , like Napoleon and Hitler.


----------



## sammuel

Hydration said:


> i like how twitter is the primary source fueling this wars information hub lol



It is amazing , it started already in the corona virus or even after 9/11 , that the truth is not something that is solid and everyone agrees on , but is something that can ne stretched like a rubber gum.

It even got worse during trump administration with his fake news nonsense.

True that main media should be consumed with the desired criticism , but to rely only on social network for information, is really to shift away from reality into an imaginary realm.


~


----------



## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Napoleon was winning before he invaded Russia. Hitler was winning before he invaded Russia. Biden was winning before he invaded Russia. Russia will end Biden.


What’s about USSR invasion of Afghanistan? USSR collapsed after withdrawal. Russian invasion of Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova? Russia can disintegrate. Russian population will revolt when they face poverty and hardship.


----------



## Hydration

sammuel said:


> It is amazing , it started already in the corona virus or even after 9/11 , that the truth is not something that is solid and everyone agrees on , but is something that can ne stretched like a rubber gum.
> 
> It even got worse during trump administration with his fake news nonsense.
> 
> True that main media should be consumed with the desired criticism , but to rely only on social network for information, is really to shift away from reality into an imaginary realm.
> 
> 
> ~


it got to a point where actual media outlets are just as incomptent as the users of twitter only exception is that twitter provides combat footage more often



Tai Hai Chen said:


> Napoleon was winning before he invaded Russia. Hitler was winning before he invaded Russia. Biden was winning before he invaded Russia. Russia will end Biden.


Winter made russia incredibly hard to invade thats when her adversaries were thousands of kilometers from moscow now it isnt the case

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521919192848650240
The Russian Defense Ministry warns Western countries about pumping weapons into Ukraine


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521920310508982272


----------



## The SC

The Spanish newspaper @abc_es requested an interview from M.V. Zakharova, and then refused to publish it. There is no doubt, there is a fact of undisguised censorship. Under these conditions, we publish the full text of the failed interview of the official representative


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521919908598226945
*Interview of the official representative of the Russian Foreign Ministry M.V. Zakharova to the Spanish newspaper A-Be-Se*


Question: Could you explain at what stage the peace talks with Ukraine are at?

Answer: Russian-Ukrainian talks are continuing. After three full-time rounds in Belarus and one in Turkey, they are held in video format. They discuss issues of resolving the situation in Ukraine, establishing its neutral, non-nuclear and non-bloc status, demilitarization and denazification, as well as security guarantees. Unfortunately, the position of the Ukrainian delegation is very volatile, and the negotiation process is accompanied by aggressive rhetoric from Kyiv and the West, the supply of Western weapons, which does not contribute to reaching agreements.


Question: In your opinion, are international mechanisms applicable for resolving the conflict in Donbass?

Answer: For the past eight years, Russia has made every effort to resolve the conflict in Donbas by peaceful means. With our mediation, the “Package of Measures for the Implementation of the Minsk Agreements of February 12, 2015” was signed, which was approved by UN Security Council Resolution 2202. It provided for a clear sequence of steps leading to the reintegration of Donbass into Ukraine under the conditions of a special status for the region.

However, the Ukrainian leadership categorically refused to do so. Our attempts to force the Kyiv regime to comply with the "Package of Measures" were unsuccessful. The armed formations of Ukraine did not stop shelling the Donbass. An inhuman socio-economic and transport blockade was introduced against its inhabitants, which put the region on the brink of survival. Such a destructive line of Kyiv was actively supported by the United States and its NATO allies, who carried out the military development of the territory of Ukraine, encouraged the promotion of aggressive Russophobia, ignored neo-Nazi manifestations, turning the country into a springboard against Russia. As it turned out later, the Armed Forces of Ukraine were preparing to seize Donbas by force for March.

As a result, we were left with no other choice but to recognize February 21 of this year. independence of the DPR and LHP, and on February 24 of this year. launch a special military operation to protect people living in Donbass, demilitarize and denazify Ukraine. All her goals and objectives will certainly be fulfilled.


Question: Do you think that the territorial demands placed on Ukraine, specifically on the Donbass, make it difficult to reach an agreement?

Answer: These are already established territorial realities that Kyiv and other countries need to recognize. They arose because of the policy of the Kyiv authorities themselves, who came to power through a neo-Nazi coup in 2014. Crimea returned to Russia, the DPR and LHP became independent states. We must respect the legitimate and informed choice of peoples and the right of nations to self-determination, enshrined in the UN Charter.


Question: Why was Russia able to use force in Chechnya, Georgia, and now in Ukraine, while Kyiv cannot do the same in relation to Donetsk and Lugansk?

Answer: Georgian authorities attacked South Ossetia and killed Russian peacekeepers. How interesting that they remembered the situation in Chechnya. These are completely different situations. Chechen fighters used terrorist methods, committed acts of terrorism in Chechnya itself and other regions of the Russian Federation. And they were considered democratic forces and supported in the US and the EU. Do you remember what the reaction of the international community was then? Everyone supported the separatists - although they were not separatists, but international terrorists. The first in Europe, by the way. The USA, Britain, European countries then called them freedom fighters. Now I have a question: why did the West not call the inhabitants of Donbass “freedom fighters”? After all, they are not terrorists. And it was difficult to call them separatists, since in the Minsk agreements, which were signed by the DPR and LPR, Donbass was called part of Ukraine. And in general, the whole Minsk package of measures is about how the DPR and LPR will live as part of Ukraine. So why didn't the West support them?

But the inhabitants of Donbass were killed for eight years. Killed civilians, children. On the territory of Europe, at the behest of Kyiv, children's cemeteries appeared. Where was the government of Spain, for example? Now everyone in the EU is talking about refugees from Ukraine. Did you know that in 2014-2015 1.2 million refugees from Ukraine came to Russia? And the West was silent again. Not a single sanction has been applied to the Kyiv regime to induce it to stop killing people for eight years.

The Kyiv regime came to power in an unconstitutional way and for eight years used military force against its own people - the civilians of Donbass. He shelled the territory of the DPR and LPR, using heavy artillery. Thousands of civilians were killed, including women and children. Residential buildings, water, electricity and gas supply facilities, hospitals and schools were hit. Kyiv imposed an economic and transport blockade of Donbass, putting its inhabitants on the brink of survival.

We regularly drew the attention of Western countries to the genocide of the population of the south-eastern regions of Ukraine, which continued all these years, which refused to accept and support the results of the anti-constitutional coup d'état of 2014, opposed the massive violation of the rights of the Russian-speaking population in the country, the policy of forced Ukrainization, the destruction of Russian culture and rewriting history. However, they did not want to hear us.

There was a chance to resolve the intra-Ukrainian conflict peacefully. This is a consistent implementation of the aforementioned “Package of Measures”. However, Kyiv refused to go this way, and the countries of the West did nothing to prevent this.

The sabotage of the Minsk agreements by Ukraine, the undisguised desire of its leadership to resolve the conflict in the Donbass by force, including using weapons, equipment and other means provided by NATO countries, forced us to take those steps.

Russian actions in Chechnya, South Ossetia and now in Ukraine are absolutely legal, while the actions of the Kyiv authorities, who staged the genocide of Donbass and the destruction of everything Russian in their own country, are illegitimate, unconstitutional and immoral.


Question: Why was Russia able to sign military agreements on cooperation with South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Donetsk, Lugansk, while no one can do this with Ukraine?

Answer: What do you mean, "no one can do it"? This is the problem of the Western community - they do not understand what is happening at all. Until 2014, we signed a number of agreements with Ukraine covering a wide range of bilateral relations, including military-technical cooperation. However, after the coup d'etat in Kyiv in February 2014, the nationalist forces that came to power, with the approval of the West, unilaterally terminated them.

The United States and NATO countries needed a Ukraine that was separated from Russia as much as possible. Our concerns about this were simply ignored. We have repeatedly stressed that all countries must observe the principle of the indivisibility of security and not strengthen their security at the expense of others. Russia put forward concrete proposals on legal security guarantees, which concerned, among other things, the non-expansion of the Alliance to the East, the return of its military infrastructure to the configuration of 1997, when the Russia-NATO Founding Act was signed. However, the West ignored them.

Having recognized the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia in 2008 after Georgia's aggression against Tskhinvali and in the light of Saakashvili's similar plans for Sukhum, Russia assumed responsibility for the security of the two young republics of Transcaucasia. This task does not lose its relevance today. A number of bilateral agreements on cooperation in the military field have been signed with these countries, aimed at creating common defense and security spaces with each of them, as provided for by the agreements with Abkhazia on alliance and strategic partnership dated November 24, 2014 and with South Ossetia on alliance and integration dated March 18, 2015

Thus, the signing and implementation of the above-mentioned agreements with Sukhum and Tskhinval is dictated by the mutual interest of the parties and is an important factor in peace and stability in this part of the Transcaucasus.


Question: How will the issue of an international investigation of what happened in Bucha be decided, given that there are opposing statements: was there a provocation or were there war crimes?

Answer: The statements you made are not contradictory. The Ukrainian provocation itself is a war crime, which needs to be investigated. On April 3, in Bucha, the Kyiv regime staged a cynical stunt, accusing Russian servicemen of killing civilians. At the same time, our troops left the city on March 30, and for the entire time they were there, not a single local resident suffered from violent actions. As well as after their departure for four days, until the arrival of the Security Service of Ukraine in Bucha, there was not a single report of mass executions of people.

What the Ukrainians and their Western curators are trying to present as "the atrocities of the Russian military in Bucha" is, of course, staged. We can say this quite accurately for a number of reasons. You have probably seen the analyzes of these stagings, which were cited by the Russian Ministry of Defense, where the poor quality of Western propaganda fakes is quite clearly shown.

The important thing is that the West this time did not come up with anything new. These provocations are a mechanism they have already tested, they have already used it, there is evidence that the Nazis used exactly the same false propaganda algorithms against the Red Army during the Great Patriotic War. I will name just two examples.

In October 1944, Soviet troops temporarily occupied and then left the city of Nemmersdorf. Immediately after the transfer of the city again under the control of the Third Reich, German propaganda specialists “rushed” there, including the head of the NSDAP propaganda department for East Prussia, K. Gebhardt. They worked for two days, after which the main Nazi newspaper "Völkischer Beobachter" published an article "The fury of the Soviet beasts." This article described the “horrors”, “mutilations” allegedly inflicted on the civilian population of Nemmersdorf by Soviet troops. Personally, the head of the press service of the NSDAP, Otto Dietrich, on October 26, 1944, instructed "to expose in close-up the nightmarish Bolshevik crimes in East Prussia and comment on them in the sharpest way."

The Reich even organized an "international commission", where he invited representatives of "pocket governments", in particular, Estonia. Literally in a week, H. Mäe's “commission” published a report in which they blamed Moscow for everything. H. Mäe's report at the end of 1944 became one of the most quoted documents of Goebbels' propaganda. Its copies were sent in foreign languages to all world agencies.

Naturally, after the war, this story began to be dealt with. The German war historian B. Fish, who himself participated in the battles for Nemmersdorf, admitted that after the discovery of the bodies by the German side, no attempt was made to identify them. The published images showed specially collected bodies of victims from several villages in East Prussia. And already in the 21st century, the German Foreign Ministry admitted that Nemmersdorff's falsifications were specially compiled by Pfeiffer, a lieutenant of the Wehrmacht's secret field police, after which they spread through Berlin.

But even the well-known provocation in Nemmersdorf was not the first. Back in 1941, the Ukrainian-language, I draw your attention, the Krakowski Vesti newspaper, censored and controlled directly by the Third Reich, published an article about “people who were tortured to death by“ NKVD murderers ”who lay on the streets of Lvov” in the abandoned city after the retreat of the Red Army. At the same time, the emphasis is on the nationality of the dead. Krakow News wrote that "the Bolsheviks machine-gunned 1,500 ethnic Ukrainians in Lutsk." Paradoxically, the Nazi Reich accused the international Soviet Union of genocide!

Krakow News was well aware of its role in this story - in the context of Ukraine, they were the propaganda guide of fascist Germany for the whole world. The employees of Krakowskie Vesti spoke directly about this in the press: their task is to use the victims so that “the word “Ukraine” reappears on the front pages of major periodicals,” and from “the blood of Ukrainians to make moral capital for the people.”

Exactly the same as now. Once again, fascist provocations are being used to “bring Ukraine to the front pages of newspapers”, and people's lives are just a bargaining chip in this propaganda game of the fascists.

By the way, you know what is the most interesting. The editor of Krakow News was a certain Mikhailo Khomyak, a Ukrainian collaborator and supporter of Hitler. So, he is the direct grandfather of the current Deputy Prime Minister of Canada, H. Freeland, one of the key figures among Russophobic circles on the American continent. It is H. Freeland who most often calls for isolating our country, referring, among other things, to Bucha. He simply repeats after his grandfather what he and his fascist associates failed eighty years ago.


Question: Don't you think that the current special operation in Ukraine will bring NATO even closer to Russia's borders, especially if Sweden and Finland join it?

Answer: The question is incorrect. Russia's special operation in Ukraine should be perceived as a consequence of the aggressive expansionist policy of NATO led by the United States, and not vice versa. The North Atlantic bloc, step by step, pursued a course of drawing new countries into its orbit, moving closer and closer to the Russian borders and ignoring our repeated warnings about the danger of such an approach for the entire European security system.

As for Finland and Sweden, their active “processing” has been carried out by the alliance for a long time. In order to radically influence the politics of these Scandinavian states, NATO painstakingly fashioned the image of an enemy out of Russia. Although in fact it was the alliance that created a threat to the security of our country. We have been warning our northern European neighbors that being drawn into the NATO orbit threatens to unbalance the European security system regularly and for quite some time. This is not "the topic of the last weeks".

I spoke about this in detail long before February 2022. Back in 2015, I warned: “Sweden’s accession to NATO would have military-political and foreign policy consequences that would require the necessary response steps from the Russian side.” In 2016, the Russian Foreign Ministry reported that the accession of the Scandinavians to NATO would disrupt stability and change the balance of power in the region, forcing us to take additional measures to ensure our security. In 2018, we talked about the risks associated with the participation of Sweden and Finland in NATO's Trident Juncture exercise. I also touched on this topic, for example, at a briefing on December 24, 2021. The relevant material was published and most recently - in the light of the latest statements from the official Stockholm and Helsinki - on April 15 of this year.

We have always kept the topic of NATO on the agenda of our contacts with Finnish and Swedish partners. Thus, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs of Russia A.V. Grushko discussed it with the Ambassador of the Republic of Finland to the Russian Federation A. Helanteria in November 2020, etc. On the whole, we have been following the way the Americans and NATO's Brussels are progressively pulling the Scandinavians to the alliance's events for a very long time.

Please understand: geopolitical confrontation with Russia is the essence of NATO's existence. All talk about the defensive nature of this organization is fiction. NATO's efforts are aimed at radically changing the military-political situation in Europe, undermining the strategic balance of power and containing our country. If Finland and Sweden join the alliance, they will turn into a space for confrontation between the North Atlantic bloc and Russia, with all the ensuing consequences, including for our time-tested good neighborly relations. Is this what the peoples of Sweden and Finland are striving for?


Question: Aren't the negative consequences for Russia, including sanctions and losses on the battlefield, from the continuation of hostilities in Ukraine not much greater than the benefits?

Answer: We have said more than once that the start of the special operation was a necessary measure. We were left with no other choice. It is being carried out in order to stop the genocide of the inhabitants of the republics of Donbass, who have been living for eight years under the conditions of endless Ukrainian shelling, the deliberate destruction of the infrastructure of water, gas and electricity, banking, trade, and economic blockade. An equally important task of the special operation is to protect Russia itself from the threats that emanated from Ukrainian territory as a result of its military development by NATO countries and artificially pumped up Russophobia and hatred for everything connected with Russia.


Question: How do you see the future of Russian-Spanish relations in the current situation?

Answer: Of course, there is nothing good in the fact that many positive bilateral developments were canceled out by the decision of the Spanish authorities to join the anti-Russian sanctions. At the same time, Madrid did not stop exclusively at the economic component of the restrictions - two deliveries of weapons have already been made to Kyiv, incl. and lethal. A blow has been dealt to our diplomatic ties due to the Spaniards joining the campaign for the mass expulsion of Russian diplomats. Due to the short-sighted actions of the partners, a number of projects in the energy and transport sectors have been “suspended”, and the localization of Spanish textile production at Russian light industry enterprises is also questionable. The position of the Spanish side on the further development of cultural and humanitarian ties does not add any positive: it was decided to “freeze” cooperation in the field of science and education, including work on documents of a legal framework ready for signing.

We see that Spain, like many other countries, has actively joined the process of destroying everything that has been created in recent decades. One can only hope that the traditionally positive perception of the Russian world by the Spanish people will turn out to be much stronger than the current militant trend towards the destruction of the basis of bilateral relations, actively supported by official Madrid.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Trango Towers

Apollon said:


> You mean west vs China, russia plays no role on global stage. Its economy is miniscule, its army is weak.


I said clear lines are being drawn...Russia and China in one camp and west in the other



Apollon said:


> Oh really? How are Tibetans doing?
> 
> 
> Btw Russia is no power. Economy weaker than spain and a weak military.


Is their economy as weak as your?

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## The SC

Urgent | British intelligence: Russian missile strikes continue across Ukraine despite focusing operations on eastern Ukraine

@AlArabiya


"Newsweek", citing reports submitted to Biden: Russia's nuclear escalation is a possibility in the next stage

@AlArabiya


----------



## nang2

The SC said:


> The Spanish newspaper @abc_es requested an interview from M.V. Zakharova, and then refused to publish it. There is no doubt, there is a fact of undisguised censorship. Under these conditions, we publish the full text of the failed interview of the official representative
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521919908598226945
> *Interview of the official representative of the Russian Foreign Ministry M.V. Zakharova to the Spanish newspaper A-Be-Se*
> 
> 
> Question: Could you explain at what stage the peace talks with Ukraine are at?
> 
> Answer: Russian-Ukrainian talks are continuing. After three full-time rounds in Belarus and one in Turkey, they are held in video format. They discuss issues of resolving the situation in Ukraine, establishing its neutral, non-nuclear and non-bloc status, demilitarization and denazification, as well as security guarantees. Unfortunately, the position of the Ukrainian delegation is very volatile, and the negotiation process is accompanied by aggressive rhetoric from Kyiv and the West, the supply of Western weapons, which does not contribute to reaching agreements.
> 
> 
> Question: In your opinion, are international mechanisms applicable for resolving the conflict in Donbass?
> 
> Answer: For the past eight years, Russia has made every effort to resolve the conflict in Donbas by peaceful means. With our mediation, the “Package of Measures for the Implementation of the Minsk Agreements of February 12, 2015” was signed, which was approved by UN Security Council Resolution 2202. It provided for a clear sequence of steps leading to the reintegration of Donbass into Ukraine under the conditions of a special status for the region.
> 
> However, the Ukrainian leadership categorically refused to do so. Our attempts to force the Kyiv regime to comply with the "Package of Measures" were unsuccessful. The armed formations of Ukraine did not stop shelling the Donbass. An inhuman socio-economic and transport blockade was introduced against its inhabitants, which put the region on the brink of survival. Such a destructive line of Kyiv was actively supported by the United States and its NATO allies, who carried out the military development of the territory of Ukraine, encouraged the promotion of aggressive Russophobia, ignored neo-Nazi manifestations, turning the country into a springboard against Russia. As it turned out later, the Armed Forces of Ukraine were preparing to seize Donbas by force for March.
> 
> As a result, we were left with no other choice but to recognize February 21 of this year. independence of the DPR and LHP, and on February 24 of this year. launch a special military operation to protect people living in Donbass, demilitarize and denazify Ukraine. All her goals and objectives will certainly be fulfilled.
> 
> 
> Question: Do you think that the territorial demands placed on Ukraine, specifically on the Donbass, make it difficult to reach an agreement?
> 
> Answer: These are already established territorial realities that Kyiv and other countries need to recognize. They arose because of the policy of the Kyiv authorities themselves, who came to power through a neo-Nazi coup in 2014. Crimea returned to Russia, the DPR and LHP became independent states. We must respect the legitimate and informed choice of peoples and the right of nations to self-determination, enshrined in the UN Charter.
> 
> 
> Question: Why was Russia able to use force in Chechnya, Georgia, and now in Ukraine, while Kyiv cannot do the same in relation to Donetsk and Lugansk?
> 
> Answer: Georgian authorities attacked South Ossetia and killed Russian peacekeepers. How interesting that they remembered the situation in Chechnya. These are completely different situations. Chechen fighters used terrorist methods, committed acts of terrorism in Chechnya itself and other regions of the Russian Federation. And they were considered democratic forces and supported in the US and the EU. Do you remember what the reaction of the international community was then? Everyone supported the separatists - although they were not separatists, but international terrorists. The first in Europe, by the way. The USA, Britain, European countries then called them freedom fighters. Now I have a question: why did the West not call the inhabitants of Donbass “freedom fighters”? After all, they are not terrorists. And it was difficult to call them separatists, since in the Minsk agreements, which were signed by the DPR and LPR, Donbass was called part of Ukraine. And in general, the whole Minsk package of measures is about how the DPR and LPR will live as part of Ukraine. So why didn't the West support them?
> 
> But the inhabitants of Donbass were killed for eight years. Killed civilians, children. On the territory of Europe, at the behest of Kyiv, children's cemeteries appeared. Where was the government of Spain, for example? Now everyone in the EU is talking about refugees from Ukraine. Did you know that in 2014-2015 1.2 million refugees from Ukraine came to Russia? And the West was silent again. Not a single sanction has been applied to the Kyiv regime to induce it to stop killing people for eight years.
> 
> The Kyiv regime came to power in an unconstitutional way and for eight years used military force against its own people - the civilians of Donbass. He shelled the territory of the DPR and LPR, using heavy artillery. Thousands of civilians were killed, including women and children. Residential buildings, water, electricity and gas supply facilities, hospitals and schools were hit. Kyiv imposed an economic and transport blockade of Donbass, putting its inhabitants on the brink of survival.
> 
> We regularly drew the attention of Western countries to the genocide of the population of the south-eastern regions of Ukraine, which continued all these years, which refused to accept and support the results of the anti-constitutional coup d'état of 2014, opposed the massive violation of the rights of the Russian-speaking population in the country, the policy of forced Ukrainization, the destruction of Russian culture and rewriting history. However, they did not want to hear us.
> 
> There was a chance to resolve the intra-Ukrainian conflict peacefully. This is a consistent implementation of the aforementioned “Package of Measures”. However, Kyiv refused to go this way, and the countries of the West did nothing to prevent this.
> 
> The sabotage of the Minsk agreements by Ukraine, the undisguised desire of its leadership to resolve the conflict in the Donbass by force, including using weapons, equipment and other means provided by NATO countries, forced us to take those steps.
> 
> Russian actions in Chechnya, South Ossetia and now in Ukraine are absolutely legal, while the actions of the Kyiv authorities, who staged the genocide of Donbass and the destruction of everything Russian in their own country, are illegitimate, unconstitutional and immoral.
> 
> 
> Question: Why was Russia able to sign military agreements on cooperation with South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Donetsk, Lugansk, while no one can do this with Ukraine?
> 
> Answer: What do you mean, "no one can do it"? This is the problem of the Western community - they do not understand what is happening at all. Until 2014, we signed a number of agreements with Ukraine covering a wide range of bilateral relations, including military-technical cooperation. However, after the coup d'etat in Kyiv in February 2014, the nationalist forces that came to power, with the approval of the West, unilaterally terminated them.
> 
> The United States and NATO countries needed a Ukraine that was separated from Russia as much as possible. Our concerns about this were simply ignored. We have repeatedly stressed that all countries must observe the principle of the indivisibility of security and not strengthen their security at the expense of others. Russia put forward concrete proposals on legal security guarantees, which concerned, among other things, the non-expansion of the Alliance to the East, the return of its military infrastructure to the configuration of 1997, when the Russia-NATO Founding Act was signed. However, the West ignored them.
> 
> Having recognized the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia in 2008 after Georgia's aggression against Tskhinvali and in the light of Saakashvili's similar plans for Sukhum, Russia assumed responsibility for the security of the two young republics of Transcaucasia. This task does not lose its relevance today. A number of bilateral agreements on cooperation in the military field have been signed with these countries, aimed at creating common defense and security spaces with each of them, as provided for by the agreements with Abkhazia on alliance and strategic partnership dated November 24, 2014 and with South Ossetia on alliance and integration dated March 18, 2015
> 
> Thus, the signing and implementation of the above-mentioned agreements with Sukhum and Tskhinval is dictated by the mutual interest of the parties and is an important factor in peace and stability in this part of the Transcaucasus.
> 
> 
> Question: How will the issue of an international investigation of what happened in Bucha be decided, given that there are opposing statements: was there a provocation or were there war crimes?
> 
> Answer: The statements you made are not contradictory. The Ukrainian provocation itself is a war crime, which needs to be investigated. On April 3, in Bucha, the Kyiv regime staged a cynical stunt, accusing Russian servicemen of killing civilians. At the same time, our troops left the city on March 30, and for the entire time they were there, not a single local resident suffered from violent actions. As well as after their departure for four days, until the arrival of the Security Service of Ukraine in Bucha, there was not a single report of mass executions of people.
> 
> What the Ukrainians and their Western curators are trying to present as "the atrocities of the Russian military in Bucha" is, of course, staged. We can say this quite accurately for a number of reasons. You have probably seen the analyzes of these stagings, which were cited by the Russian Ministry of Defense, where the poor quality of Western propaganda fakes is quite clearly shown.
> 
> The important thing is that the West this time did not come up with anything new. These provocations are a mechanism they have already tested, they have already used it, there is evidence that the Nazis used exactly the same false propaganda algorithms against the Red Army during the Great Patriotic War. I will name just two examples.
> 
> In October 1944, Soviet troops temporarily occupied and then left the city of Nemmersdorf. Immediately after the transfer of the city again under the control of the Third Reich, German propaganda specialists “rushed” there, including the head of the NSDAP propaganda department for East Prussia, K. Gebhardt. They worked for two days, after which the main Nazi newspaper "Völkischer Beobachter" published an article "The fury of the Soviet beasts." This article described the “horrors”, “mutilations” allegedly inflicted on the civilian population of Nemmersdorf by Soviet troops. Personally, the head of the press service of the NSDAP, Otto Dietrich, on October 26, 1944, instructed "to expose in close-up the nightmarish Bolshevik crimes in East Prussia and comment on them in the sharpest way."
> 
> The Reich even organized an "international commission", where he invited representatives of "pocket governments", in particular, Estonia. Literally in a week, H. Mäe's “commission” published a report in which they blamed Moscow for everything. H. Mäe's report at the end of 1944 became one of the most quoted documents of Goebbels' propaganda. Its copies were sent in foreign languages to all world agencies.
> 
> Naturally, after the war, this story began to be dealt with. The German war historian B. Fish, who himself participated in the battles for Nemmersdorf, admitted that after the discovery of the bodies by the German side, no attempt was made to identify them. The published images showed specially collected bodies of victims from several villages in East Prussia. And already in the 21st century, the German Foreign Ministry admitted that Nemmersdorff's falsifications were specially compiled by Pfeiffer, a lieutenant of the Wehrmacht's secret field police, after which they spread through Berlin.
> 
> But even the well-known provocation in Nemmersdorf was not the first. Back in 1941, the Ukrainian-language, I draw your attention, the Krakowski Vesti newspaper, censored and controlled directly by the Third Reich, published an article about “people who were tortured to death by“ NKVD murderers ”who lay on the streets of Lvov” in the abandoned city after the retreat of the Red Army. At the same time, the emphasis is on the nationality of the dead. Krakow News wrote that "the Bolsheviks machine-gunned 1,500 ethnic Ukrainians in Lutsk." Paradoxically, the Nazi Reich accused the international Soviet Union of genocide!
> 
> Krakow News was well aware of its role in this story - in the context of Ukraine, they were the propaganda guide of fascist Germany for the whole world. The employees of Krakowskie Vesti spoke directly about this in the press: their task is to use the victims so that “the word “Ukraine” reappears on the front pages of major periodicals,” and from “the blood of Ukrainians to make moral capital for the people.”
> 
> Exactly the same as now. Once again, fascist provocations are being used to “bring Ukraine to the front pages of newspapers”, and people's lives are just a bargaining chip in this propaganda game of the fascists.
> 
> By the way, you know what is the most interesting. The editor of Krakow News was a certain Mikhailo Khomyak, a Ukrainian collaborator and supporter of Hitler. So, he is the direct grandfather of the current Deputy Prime Minister of Canada, H. Freeland, one of the key figures among Russophobic circles on the American continent. It is H. Freeland who most often calls for isolating our country, referring, among other things, to Bucha. He simply repeats after his grandfather what he and his fascist associates failed eighty years ago.
> 
> 
> Question: Don't you think that the current special operation in Ukraine will bring NATO even closer to Russia's borders, especially if Sweden and Finland join it?
> 
> Answer: The question is incorrect. Russia's special operation in Ukraine should be perceived as a consequence of the aggressive expansionist policy of NATO led by the United States, and not vice versa. The North Atlantic bloc, step by step, pursued a course of drawing new countries into its orbit, moving closer and closer to the Russian borders and ignoring our repeated warnings about the danger of such an approach for the entire European security system.
> 
> As for Finland and Sweden, their active “processing” has been carried out by the alliance for a long time. In order to radically influence the politics of these Scandinavian states, NATO painstakingly fashioned the image of an enemy out of Russia. Although in fact it was the alliance that created a threat to the security of our country. We have been warning our northern European neighbors that being drawn into the NATO orbit threatens to unbalance the European security system regularly and for quite some time. This is not "the topic of the last weeks".
> 
> I spoke about this in detail long before February 2022. Back in 2015, I warned: “Sweden’s accession to NATO would have military-political and foreign policy consequences that would require the necessary response steps from the Russian side.” In 2016, the Russian Foreign Ministry reported that the accession of the Scandinavians to NATO would disrupt stability and change the balance of power in the region, forcing us to take additional measures to ensure our security. In 2018, we talked about the risks associated with the participation of Sweden and Finland in NATO's Trident Juncture exercise. I also touched on this topic, for example, at a briefing on December 24, 2021. The relevant material was published and most recently - in the light of the latest statements from the official Stockholm and Helsinki - on April 15 of this year.
> 
> We have always kept the topic of NATO on the agenda of our contacts with Finnish and Swedish partners. Thus, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs of Russia A.V. Grushko discussed it with the Ambassador of the Republic of Finland to the Russian Federation A. Helanteria in November 2020, etc. On the whole, we have been following the way the Americans and NATO's Brussels are progressively pulling the Scandinavians to the alliance's events for a very long time.
> 
> Please understand: geopolitical confrontation with Russia is the essence of NATO's existence. All talk about the defensive nature of this organization is fiction. NATO's efforts are aimed at radically changing the military-political situation in Europe, undermining the strategic balance of power and containing our country. If Finland and Sweden join the alliance, they will turn into a space for confrontation between the North Atlantic bloc and Russia, with all the ensuing consequences, including for our time-tested good neighborly relations. Is this what the peoples of Sweden and Finland are striving for?
> 
> 
> Question: Aren't the negative consequences for Russia, including sanctions and losses on the battlefield, from the continuation of hostilities in Ukraine not much greater than the benefits?
> 
> Answer: We have said more than once that the start of the special operation was a necessary measure. We were left with no other choice. It is being carried out in order to stop the genocide of the inhabitants of the republics of Donbass, who have been living for eight years under the conditions of endless Ukrainian shelling, the deliberate destruction of the infrastructure of water, gas and electricity, banking, trade, and economic blockade. An equally important task of the special operation is to protect Russia itself from the threats that emanated from Ukrainian territory as a result of its military development by NATO countries and artificially pumped up Russophobia and hatred for everything connected with Russia.
> 
> 
> Question: How do you see the future of Russian-Spanish relations in the current situation?
> 
> Answer: Of course, there is nothing good in the fact that many positive bilateral developments were canceled out by the decision of the Spanish authorities to join the anti-Russian sanctions. At the same time, Madrid did not stop exclusively at the economic component of the restrictions - two deliveries of weapons have already been made to Kyiv, incl. and lethal. A blow has been dealt to our diplomatic ties due to the Spaniards joining the campaign for the mass expulsion of Russian diplomats. Due to the short-sighted actions of the partners, a number of projects in the energy and transport sectors have been “suspended”, and the localization of Spanish textile production at Russian light industry enterprises is also questionable. The position of the Spanish side on the further development of cultural and humanitarian ties does not add any positive: it was decided to “freeze” cooperation in the field of science and education, including work on documents of a legal framework ready for signing.
> 
> We see that Spain, like many other countries, has actively joined the process of destroying everything that has been created in recent decades. One can only hope that the traditionally positive perception of the Russian world by the Spanish people will turn out to be much stronger than the current militant trend towards the destruction of the basis of bilateral relations, actively supported by official Madrid.


Very well articulated! Maybe this will offend Chinese folks here but I still say it. I wish the officials in Chinese ministry of foreign relationship could speak this well.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> What’s about USSR invasion of Afghanistan? USSR collapsed after withdrawal. Russian invasion of Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova? Russia can disintegrate. Russian population will revolt when they face poverty and hardship.



Not even WW2 disintegrated Russia, what makes you think a little Ukraine can disintegrate Russia? Also, Russia never disintegrated. It was USSR that did. Russia maintained its territorial integrity when USSR disintegrated. Keep in mind British empire and French empire both disintegrated.

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## The SC




----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521228600887939080


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521900774128762881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521908278049050628

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521899235343577089

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521892453426597888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521839213049745408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521865147781894145

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521881594017030144

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> Slowly but surely. I want to see this sleepy Joe get defeated at the hands of Putin. It is personal on many levels.




Russia has already strategically lost. They are in a much worse position today than 3 months ago. Economically broken, militarily shattered, politically isolated. 

Russia is done, and US power grows. Russia is facing a decisive defeat in Ukraine.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Haha Haha:
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## sammuel

The SC said:


> Unfortunately, the position of the Ukrainian delegation is very volatile, and the negotiation process is accompanied by aggressive rhetoric from Kyiv and the West, the supply of Western weapons, which does not contribute to reaching agreements.



Sure , the problem is not Russia invading Ukraine , But Ukrainians arming themselves with a few weapons to defend their country , that to the Russians create distrust in the negotiations.

Why would they need those weapons anyway ,? 

~


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521765626179727360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521926091778236419

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521755968840867840

This is getting religious too..Catholic vs Orthodox churches!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521753070216097795

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia is facing a decisive defeat in Ukraine.



Defeat it will be, but far from certain.

The number if their units in Ukraine is still enormous: 70000 troops, 500 tanks, and more artillery than they can use.

That's bigger than most NATO militaries.

Reinforcements, and resupplies are still coming to them, and they are purposefully forcing an attrition warfare. We know, Russia has already brought in between 12000 to 15000 extra troops over the last 6 weeks, or one battalion per week.

If they lose 1 BTG per 2 weeks, they can hold for months before the force ratio will be dooming: 4-5 months, and up to a year or more if they are really motivated enough to eat grass.

At current replenishment, and reinforcement rate, Ukrainians need to kill 40k more of Russian troops for them to make further resistance meaningless, or they have to somehow inflict a loss of 20k troops over month to get a strong momentum.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521941217587732482

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> Defeat it will be, but far from certain.
> 
> The number if their units in Ukraine is still enormous: 70000 troops, 500 tanks, and more artillery than they can use.
> 
> That's bigger than most NATO militaries.
> 
> Reinforcements, and resupplies are still coming to them, and they are purposefully forcing an attrition warfare.
> 
> If they lose 1 BTG per 2 weeks, they can hold for months before the force ratio will be dooming: 4-5 months, and up to a year or more if they are really motivated enough to eat grass.
> 
> At current replenishment, and reinforcement rate, Ukrainians need to kill 40k more of Russian troops for them to make further resistance meaningless, or they have to somehow inflict a loss of 20k troops over month to get a strong momentum.




Russia is losing armor at the rate where they will be defeated by the end of the year. 

They are an extremely weakened force even today.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521926130533638147

Russia's mission to the United Nations: The European Union is subordinate to Washington and has no foreign policy

@AlArabiya_Brk



In the Kyiv region, the forests of the Chernobyl and Ivankievsky region are burning, mayor Vitali Klitschko said. Kyiv residents are urged to close windows in case of smoke and not be on the street unnecessarily.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521930157119791105

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521933790368653313


----------



## The SC

The Pentagon: We have many ways and means to deliver our weapons to the Ukrainians, and we are constantly changing our tactics.

@SkyNewsArabia_B

This seems a lil' desperate! 😂😂🤣🤣



Russian forces destroy barriers..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521885716665536512


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia is losing armor at the rate where they will be defeated by the end of the year.
> 
> They are an extremely weakened force even today.



Russia don't need armor. Pickups are sufficient.


----------



## The SC

Russia's revenue from energy exports from February 24 to April 24.
Red color - pipeline gas,
Yellow - oil,
Gray - other hydrocarbons.

Only 62 billion euros.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521942523601727489


----------



## nang2

The SC said:


> The Spanish newspaper @abc_es requested an interview from M.V. Zakharova, and then refused to publish it. There is no doubt, there is a fact of undisguised censorship. Under these conditions, we publish the full text of the failed interview of the official representative
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521919908598226945
> *Interview of the official representative of the Russian Foreign Ministry M.V. Zakharova to the Spanish newspaper A-Be-Se*
> 
> 
> Question: Could you explain at what stage the peace talks with Ukraine are at?
> 
> Answer: Russian-Ukrainian talks are continuing. After three full-time rounds in Belarus and one in Turkey, they are held in video format. They discuss issues of resolving the situation in Ukraine, establishing its neutral, non-nuclear and non-bloc status, demilitarization and denazification, as well as security guarantees. Unfortunately, the position of the Ukrainian delegation is very volatile, and the negotiation process is accompanied by aggressive rhetoric from Kyiv and the West, the supply of Western weapons, which does not contribute to reaching agreements.
> 
> 
> Question: In your opinion, are international mechanisms applicable for resolving the conflict in Donbass?
> 
> Answer: For the past eight years, Russia has made every effort to resolve the conflict in Donbas by peaceful means. With our mediation, the “Package of Measures for the Implementation of the Minsk Agreements of February 12, 2015” was signed, which was approved by UN Security Council Resolution 2202. It provided for a clear sequence of steps leading to the reintegration of Donbass into Ukraine under the conditions of a special status for the region.
> 
> However, the Ukrainian leadership categorically refused to do so. Our attempts to force the Kyiv regime to comply with the "Package of Measures" were unsuccessful. The armed formations of Ukraine did not stop shelling the Donbass. An inhuman socio-economic and transport blockade was introduced against its inhabitants, which put the region on the brink of survival. Such a destructive line of Kyiv was actively supported by the United States and its NATO allies, who carried out the military development of the territory of Ukraine, encouraged the promotion of aggressive Russophobia, ignored neo-Nazi manifestations, turning the country into a springboard against Russia. As it turned out later, the Armed Forces of Ukraine were preparing to seize Donbas by force for March.
> 
> As a result, we were left with no other choice but to recognize February 21 of this year. independence of the DPR and LHP, and on February 24 of this year. launch a special military operation to protect people living in Donbass, demilitarize and denazify Ukraine. All her goals and objectives will certainly be fulfilled.
> 
> 
> Question: Do you think that the territorial demands placed on Ukraine, specifically on the Donbass, make it difficult to reach an agreement?
> 
> Answer: These are already established territorial realities that Kyiv and other countries need to recognize. They arose because of the policy of the Kyiv authorities themselves, who came to power through a neo-Nazi coup in 2014. Crimea returned to Russia, the DPR and LHP became independent states. We must respect the legitimate and informed choice of peoples and the right of nations to self-determination, enshrined in the UN Charter.
> 
> 
> Question: Why was Russia able to use force in Chechnya, Georgia, and now in Ukraine, while Kyiv cannot do the same in relation to Donetsk and Lugansk?
> 
> Answer: Georgian authorities attacked South Ossetia and killed Russian peacekeepers. How interesting that they remembered the situation in Chechnya. These are completely different situations. Chechen fighters used terrorist methods, committed acts of terrorism in Chechnya itself and other regions of the Russian Federation. And they were considered democratic forces and supported in the US and the EU. Do you remember what the reaction of the international community was then? Everyone supported the separatists - although they were not separatists, but international terrorists. The first in Europe, by the way. The USA, Britain, European countries then called them freedom fighters. Now I have a question: why did the West not call the inhabitants of Donbass “freedom fighters”? After all, they are not terrorists. And it was difficult to call them separatists, since in the Minsk agreements, which were signed by the DPR and LPR, Donbass was called part of Ukraine. And in general, the whole Minsk package of measures is about how the DPR and LPR will live as part of Ukraine. So why didn't the West support them?
> 
> But the inhabitants of Donbass were killed for eight years. Killed civilians, children. On the territory of Europe, at the behest of Kyiv, children's cemeteries appeared. Where was the government of Spain, for example? Now everyone in the EU is talking about refugees from Ukraine. Did you know that in 2014-2015 1.2 million refugees from Ukraine came to Russia? And the West was silent again. Not a single sanction has been applied to the Kyiv regime to induce it to stop killing people for eight years.
> 
> The Kyiv regime came to power in an unconstitutional way and for eight years used military force against its own people - the civilians of Donbass. He shelled the territory of the DPR and LPR, using heavy artillery. Thousands of civilians were killed, including women and children. Residential buildings, water, electricity and gas supply facilities, hospitals and schools were hit. Kyiv imposed an economic and transport blockade of Donbass, putting its inhabitants on the brink of survival.
> 
> We regularly drew the attention of Western countries to the genocide of the population of the south-eastern regions of Ukraine, which continued all these years, which refused to accept and support the results of the anti-constitutional coup d'état of 2014, opposed the massive violation of the rights of the Russian-speaking population in the country, the policy of forced Ukrainization, the destruction of Russian culture and rewriting history. However, they did not want to hear us.
> 
> There was a chance to resolve the intra-Ukrainian conflict peacefully. This is a consistent implementation of the aforementioned “Package of Measures”. However, Kyiv refused to go this way, and the countries of the West did nothing to prevent this.
> 
> The sabotage of the Minsk agreements by Ukraine, the undisguised desire of its leadership to resolve the conflict in the Donbass by force, including using weapons, equipment and other means provided by NATO countries, forced us to take those steps.
> 
> Russian actions in Chechnya, South Ossetia and now in Ukraine are absolutely legal, while the actions of the Kyiv authorities, who staged the genocide of Donbass and the destruction of everything Russian in their own country, are illegitimate, unconstitutional and immoral.
> 
> 
> Question: Why was Russia able to sign military agreements on cooperation with South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Donetsk, Lugansk, while no one can do this with Ukraine?
> 
> Answer: What do you mean, "no one can do it"? This is the problem of the Western community - they do not understand what is happening at all. Until 2014, we signed a number of agreements with Ukraine covering a wide range of bilateral relations, including military-technical cooperation. However, after the coup d'etat in Kyiv in February 2014, the nationalist forces that came to power, with the approval of the West, unilaterally terminated them.
> 
> The United States and NATO countries needed a Ukraine that was separated from Russia as much as possible. Our concerns about this were simply ignored. We have repeatedly stressed that all countries must observe the principle of the indivisibility of security and not strengthen their security at the expense of others. Russia put forward concrete proposals on legal security guarantees, which concerned, among other things, the non-expansion of the Alliance to the East, the return of its military infrastructure to the configuration of 1997, when the Russia-NATO Founding Act was signed. However, the West ignored them.
> 
> Having recognized the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia in 2008 after Georgia's aggression against Tskhinvali and in the light of Saakashvili's similar plans for Sukhum, Russia assumed responsibility for the security of the two young republics of Transcaucasia. This task does not lose its relevance today. A number of bilateral agreements on cooperation in the military field have been signed with these countries, aimed at creating common defense and security spaces with each of them, as provided for by the agreements with Abkhazia on alliance and strategic partnership dated November 24, 2014 and with South Ossetia on alliance and integration dated March 18, 2015
> 
> Thus, the signing and implementation of the above-mentioned agreements with Sukhum and Tskhinval is dictated by the mutual interest of the parties and is an important factor in peace and stability in this part of the Transcaucasus.
> 
> 
> Question: How will the issue of an international investigation of what happened in Bucha be decided, given that there are opposing statements: was there a provocation or were there war crimes?
> 
> Answer: The statements you made are not contradictory. The Ukrainian provocation itself is a war crime, which needs to be investigated. On April 3, in Bucha, the Kyiv regime staged a cynical stunt, accusing Russian servicemen of killing civilians. At the same time, our troops left the city on March 30, and for the entire time they were there, not a single local resident suffered from violent actions. As well as after their departure for four days, until the arrival of the Security Service of Ukraine in Bucha, there was not a single report of mass executions of people.
> 
> What the Ukrainians and their Western curators are trying to present as "the atrocities of the Russian military in Bucha" is, of course, staged. We can say this quite accurately for a number of reasons. You have probably seen the analyzes of these stagings, which were cited by the Russian Ministry of Defense, where the poor quality of Western propaganda fakes is quite clearly shown.
> 
> The important thing is that the West this time did not come up with anything new. These provocations are a mechanism they have already tested, they have already used it, there is evidence that the Nazis used exactly the same false propaganda algorithms against the Red Army during the Great Patriotic War. I will name just two examples.
> 
> In October 1944, Soviet troops temporarily occupied and then left the city of Nemmersdorf. Immediately after the transfer of the city again under the control of the Third Reich, German propaganda specialists “rushed” there, including the head of the NSDAP propaganda department for East Prussia, K. Gebhardt. They worked for two days, after which the main Nazi newspaper "Völkischer Beobachter" published an article "The fury of the Soviet beasts." This article described the “horrors”, “mutilations” allegedly inflicted on the civilian population of Nemmersdorf by Soviet troops. Personally, the head of the press service of the NSDAP, Otto Dietrich, on October 26, 1944, instructed "to expose in close-up the nightmarish Bolshevik crimes in East Prussia and comment on them in the sharpest way."
> 
> The Reich even organized an "international commission", where he invited representatives of "pocket governments", in particular, Estonia. Literally in a week, H. Mäe's “commission” published a report in which they blamed Moscow for everything. H. Mäe's report at the end of 1944 became one of the most quoted documents of Goebbels' propaganda. Its copies were sent in foreign languages to all world agencies.
> 
> Naturally, after the war, this story began to be dealt with. The German war historian B. Fish, who himself participated in the battles for Nemmersdorf, admitted that after the discovery of the bodies by the German side, no attempt was made to identify them. The published images showed specially collected bodies of victims from several villages in East Prussia. And already in the 21st century, the German Foreign Ministry admitted that Nemmersdorff's falsifications were specially compiled by Pfeiffer, a lieutenant of the Wehrmacht's secret field police, after which they spread through Berlin.
> 
> But even the well-known provocation in Nemmersdorf was not the first. Back in 1941, the Ukrainian-language, I draw your attention, the Krakowski Vesti newspaper, censored and controlled directly by the Third Reich, published an article about “people who were tortured to death by“ NKVD murderers ”who lay on the streets of Lvov” in the abandoned city after the retreat of the Red Army. At the same time, the emphasis is on the nationality of the dead. Krakow News wrote that "the Bolsheviks machine-gunned 1,500 ethnic Ukrainians in Lutsk." Paradoxically, the Nazi Reich accused the international Soviet Union of genocide!
> 
> Krakow News was well aware of its role in this story - in the context of Ukraine, they were the propaganda guide of fascist Germany for the whole world. The employees of Krakowskie Vesti spoke directly about this in the press: their task is to use the victims so that “the word “Ukraine” reappears on the front pages of major periodicals,” and from “the blood of Ukrainians to make moral capital for the people.”
> 
> Exactly the same as now. Once again, fascist provocations are being used to “bring Ukraine to the front pages of newspapers”, and people's lives are just a bargaining chip in this propaganda game of the fascists.
> 
> By the way, you know what is the most interesting. The editor of Krakow News was a certain Mikhailo Khomyak, a Ukrainian collaborator and supporter of Hitler. So, he is the direct grandfather of the current Deputy Prime Minister of Canada, H. Freeland, one of the key figures among Russophobic circles on the American continent. It is H. Freeland who most often calls for isolating our country, referring, among other things, to Bucha. He simply repeats after his grandfather what he and his fascist associates failed eighty years ago.
> 
> 
> Question: Don't you think that the current special operation in Ukraine will bring NATO even closer to Russia's borders, especially if Sweden and Finland join it?
> 
> Answer: The question is incorrect. Russia's special operation in Ukraine should be perceived as a consequence of the aggressive expansionist policy of NATO led by the United States, and not vice versa. The North Atlantic bloc, step by step, pursued a course of drawing new countries into its orbit, moving closer and closer to the Russian borders and ignoring our repeated warnings about the danger of such an approach for the entire European security system.
> 
> As for Finland and Sweden, their active “processing” has been carried out by the alliance for a long time. In order to radically influence the politics of these Scandinavian states, NATO painstakingly fashioned the image of an enemy out of Russia. Although in fact it was the alliance that created a threat to the security of our country. We have been warning our northern European neighbors that being drawn into the NATO orbit threatens to unbalance the European security system regularly and for quite some time. This is not "the topic of the last weeks".
> 
> I spoke about this in detail long before February 2022. Back in 2015, I warned: “Sweden’s accession to NATO would have military-political and foreign policy consequences that would require the necessary response steps from the Russian side.” In 2016, the Russian Foreign Ministry reported that the accession of the Scandinavians to NATO would disrupt stability and change the balance of power in the region, forcing us to take additional measures to ensure our security. In 2018, we talked about the risks associated with the participation of Sweden and Finland in NATO's Trident Juncture exercise. I also touched on this topic, for example, at a briefing on December 24, 2021. The relevant material was published and most recently - in the light of the latest statements from the official Stockholm and Helsinki - on April 15 of this year.
> 
> We have always kept the topic of NATO on the agenda of our contacts with Finnish and Swedish partners. Thus, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs of Russia A.V. Grushko discussed it with the Ambassador of the Republic of Finland to the Russian Federation A. Helanteria in November 2020, etc. On the whole, we have been following the way the Americans and NATO's Brussels are progressively pulling the Scandinavians to the alliance's events for a very long time.
> 
> Please understand: geopolitical confrontation with Russia is the essence of NATO's existence. All talk about the defensive nature of this organization is fiction. NATO's efforts are aimed at radically changing the military-political situation in Europe, undermining the strategic balance of power and containing our country. If Finland and Sweden join the alliance, they will turn into a space for confrontation between the North Atlantic bloc and Russia, with all the ensuing consequences, including for our time-tested good neighborly relations. Is this what the peoples of Sweden and Finland are striving for?
> 
> 
> Question: Aren't the negative consequences for Russia, including sanctions and losses on the battlefield, from the continuation of hostilities in Ukraine not much greater than the benefits?
> 
> Answer: We have said more than once that the start of the special operation was a necessary measure. We were left with no other choice. It is being carried out in order to stop the genocide of the inhabitants of the republics of Donbass, who have been living for eight years under the conditions of endless Ukrainian shelling, the deliberate destruction of the infrastructure of water, gas and electricity, banking, trade, and economic blockade. An equally important task of the special operation is to protect Russia itself from the threats that emanated from Ukrainian territory as a result of its military development by NATO countries and artificially pumped up Russophobia and hatred for everything connected with Russia.
> 
> 
> Question: How do you see the future of Russian-Spanish relations in the current situation?
> 
> Answer: Of course, there is nothing good in the fact that many positive bilateral developments were canceled out by the decision of the Spanish authorities to join the anti-Russian sanctions. At the same time, Madrid did not stop exclusively at the economic component of the restrictions - two deliveries of weapons have already been made to Kyiv, incl. and lethal. A blow has been dealt to our diplomatic ties due to the Spaniards joining the campaign for the mass expulsion of Russian diplomats. Due to the short-sighted actions of the partners, a number of projects in the energy and transport sectors have been “suspended”, and the localization of Spanish textile production at Russian light industry enterprises is also questionable. The position of the Spanish side on the further development of cultural and humanitarian ties does not add any positive: it was decided to “freeze” cooperation in the field of science and education, including work on documents of a legal framework ready for signing.
> 
> We see that Spain, like many other countries, has actively joined the process of destroying everything that has been created in recent decades. One can only hope that the traditionally positive perception of the Russian world by the Spanish people will turn out to be much stronger than the current militant trend towards the destruction of the basis of bilateral relations, actively supported by official Madrid.


The talk about H. Freeland's grandfather is particularly interesting for Canadians. Back in 2017, Ottawa Citizen published this article:









Chrystia Freeland’s granddad was indeed a Nazi collaborator – so much for Russian disinformation


The news conference on Monday by Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland was interesting not for the announcement that Canada was extending its training…




ottawacitizen.com


----------



## The SC

Ukrainian military commander from inside Azovstal: a raging battle is taking place in the factory and the Russian forces have succeeded in penetrating

@Alhadath_Brk



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521894824634372096

The President of Mexico reiterated that there are no plans to impose sanctions on Russia. Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador said that the state takes a neutral position and calls for a peaceful resolution of contradictions


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521942881103233024


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521938690603425792

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521903627811577856

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521903235862257664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521902772139999232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521908494881984515

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521905931323203584


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521934250366447620



Spoiler: Graphic



https://twitter.com/islamicworldupd/status/1521897671010795522





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521926820614086657


----------



## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia is losing armor at the rate where they will be defeated by the end of the year.
> 
> They are an extremely weakened force even today.



Without armour they cannot attack, but they still can entrench, and defend in large towns with light weapons just like Ukrainians did just few weeks ago.

Killing 20k of infantry is a monumental task under any conditions, even with minimally defensible positions, and medium local force concentrations, opposing force will take big losses on its own.

It's very visible now that Russians keep sending low value cannon fodder (DPR troops,) to buy time to go on defensive with its regulars.

I believe it's 50/50 that Ukrainians will not get an offensive in time before Russians can switch to organised defense.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Paul2 said:


> Without armour they cannot attack, but they still can entrench, and defend in large towns with light weapons just like Ukrainians did just few weeks ago.
> 
> Killing 20k of infantry is a monumental task under any conditions.



Tigr amphibious armored cars can attack.









Russia's solution to main battle tank, cheap and effective and versatile Tigr amphibious armored cars


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigr_(Russian_military_vehicle) Heavy machine gun variant Anti tank guided missile variant MANPADS variant Air defense radar variant @White and Green with M/S @F-22Raptor @Oldman1 @UKBengali @gambit @Ich @jamahir @jamal18 @Hack-Hook @Vergennes...



defence.pk


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521857992781672448


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521947270878482436


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521915135975215104


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521835165013757956

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> Without armour they cannot attack, but they still can entrench, and defend in large towns with light weapons just like Ukrainians did just few weeks ago.
> 
> Killing 20k of infantry is a monumental task under any conditions, even with minimally defensible positions, and medium local force concentrations, opposing force will take big losses on its own.
> 
> It's very visible now that Russians keep sending low value cannon fodder (DPR troops,) to buy time to go on defensive with its regulars.
> 
> I believe it's 50/50 that Ukrainians will not get an offensive in time before Russians can switch to organised defense.




It’s all about attrition. Russia is getting attrited to the point where the Pentagon no longer views them as a threat outside their nuclear arsenal.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521935605332066304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521937255409008643


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521951876509585409

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521956350435401730


----------



## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> It’s all about attrition. Russia is getting attrited to the point where the Pentagon no longer views them as a threat outside their nuclear arsenal.



You say attrition, but they are only loosing relatively low value units.

As I said, even if they lose two Russian style BTG per month, they can last a really long time. And the longer they last as a coherent force, the better will be their defensive organisation.

I am equally sure about Russians not being able to replace losses in 100% officer staffed units, as them being easily able to field cannon fodder with AK, and one RPG per squad in large amounts, for a really long time, even without a partial mobilisation.

So, they can still make a lot of grief even if they loose all of their offensive potential with their current tactic.

You guys are trivialising the fact that Ukrainians will have to dismantle world's No.2 military. They have to do it on their soil, with home turf advantage, with Russian stretched supply lines, low morale, weak air support, but still f***ing 4-6 field armies worth of bodies to grind through.

The scale of upcoming losses on both sides will be enormous, unseen by the world since the Korean war.

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## Iron Shrappenel

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521826193955250179


Atleast read the complete thread before sharing



Corax said:


> I know you Americans aren't used to adequate education, but you should read and check the sources you're posting more carefully. Scroll down the Twitter thread, those pics are from Indonesia.


Wow he gave you a negative rating over just that lmao

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RescueRanger

nang2 said:


> Now someone please gives him a negative rating.


I’ve reported it for moderation


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521892453426597888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521904023808397315

"One missile, Boris" .. Russian media threatens Britain and Ireland with nuclear strikes by sea and air.. why are you playing with us?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521958706560258048
Urgent Chinese Foreign Ministry: Washington's "false" accusations do not help resolve the conflict in Ukraine

@AsharqNewsBrk


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

T


The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521830866435158016


That's low-key beautiful

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521960865481863169


----------



## Primus

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521958706560258048


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

RescueRanger said:


> I’ve reported it for moderation


Mods pretty biased here.. even with the green and white...


----------



## zartosht

Devastating inflation hitting the americans/euros... this is just the beginning.






-truckers paying 1200$ to fill up diesel, where last year they paid around $600

Everything is transported by trucks, add the loss of fertilizer and certain staples like cooking oil, and the western warmonger cheerleaders are going to be in for alot of pain. diesel touches virtually any items you can think of. food prices will skyrocket.

meanwhile in "sanctioned Russia", with crippling blablabla... USD to ruble is now 69....

tells you about the competence of the Russian government vs. team woke in the west.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521962240504594432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521963671508856834

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521965611298947072

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521967326676996096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521971190541156352

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## RescueRanger

Iron Shrappenel said:


> Mods pretty biased here.. even with the green and white...



@nang2 - done 😊 post has been removed!

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521958520408748033

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521963284798263297

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521964211840204800
Finland suspects that a Russian Mi-17 helicopter violated the country's airspace - according to the Ministry of Defense, it happened from the eastern border at about 10:40 in the morning of May 4. The Finnish Border Guard has launched a preliminary investigation into the accident


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521964226318848000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521965036360581122

Reactions: Like Like:
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## WotTen

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Napoleon was winning before he invaded Russia. Hitler was winning before he invaded Russia. Biden was winning before he invaded Russia. Russia will end Biden.



There is a YouTube meme called "Unless you're the Mongols" which talks about how the Mongols were the exception to many truisms through history.

One of them is "No one can invade Russia in the winter and win....unless you're the Mongols"
Another is "Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires...unless you're the Mongols".


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521922315558260736


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521970455892135936


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521912806328700928

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521883027739222017


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521878575917510657
This is an interesting perspective on Russia's capacity for total mobilisation. As part of reformation, Putin's defence minister has reduced the training facilities and officers available to command them. Seems like Russia cannot perform total mobilisation as effectively as the Soviet can


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521836672446574592

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Paul2

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521878575917510657
> This is an interesting perspective on Russia's capacity for total mobilisation. As part of reformation, Putin's defence minister has reduced the training facilities and officers available to command them. Seems like Russia cannot perform total mobilisation as effectively as the Soviet can



Yes, that's why Russian field armies are so tiny. It's a legacy from communist period.

Per communist doctrine, these 12 armies were to increase in size 4-5 fold with eager red guards, and people militia. Surplus equipment goes to militia, and militias goes to surplus officers, and then the People's War starts.

We will see. The critical part — bearable quality hardware is already gone.

Old tanks are driven by levers, you need to learn, and train to drive them. It's not like a car.

Similarly, old comms hardware cannot be taught to complete rookies.

Artillery without ballistic computers means 30 minutes per high quality firing solution, or none at all if you don't have people with university level math skills who trained for month to do that.

I am not talking at all about rocket artillery, and aviation.

This is why modern military equipment reduces the need for mobilisation preparedness:

Ukrainians learn point-and-shoot NATO ATGMs within weeks. NATO arty is more or less point and shoot to, with almost every unit having a digital fire director.

Not to say, NATO purposefully adopted car style controls on armour, so pilots can be taught fast.

Most NATO jets are similarly fly by wire, where computers can make a good pilot out of somebody just few month flying.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521961907992858624At least the touret is still there!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

Paul2 said:


> Yes, that's why Russian field armies are so tiny. It's a legacy from communist period.
> 
> Per communist doctrine, these 12 armies were to increase in size 4-5 fold with eager red guards, and people militia. Surplus equipment goes to militia, and militias goes to surplus officers, and then the People's War starts.
> 
> We will see. The critical part — bearable quality hardware is already gone.
> 
> Old tanks are driven by levers, you need to learn, and train to drive them. It's not like a car.
> 
> Similarly, old comms hardware cannot be taught to complete rookies.
> 
> Artillery without ballistic computers means 30 minutes per high quality firing solution, or none at all if you don't have people with university level math skills who trained for month to do that.
> 
> I am not talking at all about rocket artillery, and aviation.


Another interesting point from the same Twitter handle is the possibility for armed resistance in the capital if the war drags on. Right now there is zero capacity for a successful resurrection because people don't have any means for it. But mobilisation means arming civilians who value their life over some glory for the state. It is easy to cheer for war when you are in a telegram group afterall. But if you are made to march as a cannon fodder in hostile territory, then all bets are off. This may also weigh on Putin's mind as he would prepare to mobilisation. The Bolsheviks themselves were empowered by all the low class non ideological pleb who simply wanted to avoid the trenches afterall 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521886901376061440


----------



## Paul2

Wood said:


> Another interesting point from the same Twitter handle is the possibility for armed resistance in the capital if the war drags on. Right now there is zero capacity for a successful resurrection because people don't have any means for it. But mobilisation means arming civilians who value their life over some glory for the state. It is easy to cheer for war when you are in a telegram group afterall. But if you are made to march as a cannon fodder in hostile territory, then all bets are off. This may also weigh on Putin's mind as he would prepare to mobilisation. The Bolsheviks themselves were empowered by all the low class non ideological pleb who simply wanted to avoid the trenches afterall
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521886901376061440



Not happening. Russian police, and its 3 letter services are bigger, better funded, and better trained than its military, just like in China.

All "red" countries share that trait. China, and Russia are police states, and not military states, or stratocracies.

No empire in the past ever had a police larger than its military. Not even the ill Austro-Hungarian Empire, or sick late Ottoman empire. We really have no historical precedent to project how this will end.

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## The SC

Ali_12 said:


> It's high time all Russian neighbours joint nato or otherwise they will all become ukraine


That's a double edged decision .. like being between a rock and a hard nuked place..

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521926130533638147
> 
> Russia's mission to the United Nations: The European Union is subordinate to Washington and has no foreign policy
> 
> @AlArabiya_Brk
> 
> 
> 
> In the Kyiv region, the forests of the Chernobyl and Ivankievsky region are burning, mayor Vitali Klitschko said. Kyiv residents are urged to close windows in case of smoke and not be on the street unnecessarily.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521930157119791105
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521933790368653313




Russia should drop a nuke on that island where the Antichrist is imprisoned.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ali_12 said:


> It's high time all Russian neighbours joint nato or otherwise they will all become ukraine



If you treat Russians with respect, then Russians treat you with respect. This is why China and Russia are best buddies. Finns and Norwegians bully Russians. So Russians hate them.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521681337928744962

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521953856606949382


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521966383466270722


----------



## The SC

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521681337928744962


It was obviously propaganda..but we shouldn't blame any part to the conflict for that.. it is part of war.. just another tool for morale and face saving..

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## Wood

Paul2 said:


> Not happening. Russian police, and its 3 letter services are bigger, better funded, and better trained than its military, just like in China.
> 
> *All "red" countries share that trait. China, and Russia are police states, and not military states, or stratocracies.*


Yes, this is an interesting observation. Perhaps police is the only group that can revolt or overthrow the state authority. They are kept under boots of political class but not completely without power themselves. But police are methodically trained to only obey absolutely in most countries. So it is a very unlikely prospect.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521989640177152000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521990531504476160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521992899000381441


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521970729788620800
It is very difficult to see what guarantees the US can provide Sweden in case of an all out Nuclear war where the US itself will be a target.. and maybe the first and the main one!

What will NATO gain from Finland and Sweden joining the alliance?
There is no benefit other than confirming the attempt to besiege Russia militarily, which began in 2004.

In fact, NATO, the US and Britain, the leaders of this alliance, are now the first to fire the first bullet in a nuclear war that will atomized everyone on this planet, and they announce to Russia that they guarantee the security of Finland and Sweden, it is literally saying either you accept your military siege or or you fight an all-out war.. a nuclear war on your borders..
This is the exact miscalculation that many experts were talking about at the beginning of this war..

The possibilities of a comprehensive war are now greater than ever, and no one will escape from it, whith the first of them are those who are eager to ignite it now.

People are starting to think about which country they should flee to in that case..maybe Australia or NZ for the time being..until China gets involved..

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## mmr

zartosht said:


> Devastating inflation hitting the americans/euros... this is just the beginning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -truckers paying 1200$ to fill up diesel, where last year they paid around $600
> 
> Everything is transported by trucks, add the loss of fertilizer and certain staples like cooking oil, and the western warmonger cheerleaders are going to be in for alot of pain. diesel touches virtually any items you can think of. food prices will skyrocket.
> 
> meanwhile in "sanctioned Russia", with crippling blablabla... USD to ruble is now 69....
> 
> tells you about the competence of the Russian government vs. team woke in the west.


Lol what ever help you to sleep at night


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522002793116053506


----------



## PakAlp

04/05/2022. 
Looks like a stalemate. Ukraine is giving Russia big problems down South with counter offensives.







Finally Russia is overtaking the Steelworks









Communications lost with last defenders of Mariupol as Russia attacks


Vadym Boichenko, exiled mayor of the near-totally destroyed city of Mariupol, says all communications with Ukrainian troops holed up inside the Azovstal steel works have now been lost.




www.dailymail.co.uk













Fierce fighting under way in Mariupol’s Azovstal plant, says Azov commander


Leader of Ukrainian forces says they are engaged in ‘difficult bloody battles’ against Russian troops, as another 344 civilians are evacuated




www.theguardian.com













Russia planning victory parade in Mariupol, Ukraine says


Dead bodies and debris are being hastily cleaned from the streets of Mariupol ahead of a Russian victory parade, Ukraine's intelligence service has said. #EuropeNews




www.euronews.com


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

PakAlp said:


> 04/05/2022.
> Looks like a stalemate. Ukraine is giving Russia big problems down South with counter offensives.
> 
> View attachment 840960
> 
> 
> Finally Russia is overtaking the Steelworks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Communications lost with last defenders of Mariupol as Russia attacks
> 
> 
> Vadym Boichenko, exiled mayor of the near-totally destroyed city of Mariupol, says all communications with Ukrainian troops holed up inside the Azovstal steel works have now been lost.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fierce fighting under way in Mariupol’s Azovstal plant, says Azov commander
> 
> 
> Leader of Ukrainian forces says they are engaged in ‘difficult bloody battles’ against Russian troops, as another 344 civilians are evacuated
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia planning victory parade in Mariupol, Ukraine says
> 
> 
> Dead bodies and debris are being hastily cleaned from the streets of Mariupol ahead of a Russian victory parade, Ukraine's intelligence service has said. #EuropeNews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.euronews.com



Yeah. It's gonna last decades if not centuries. Looks like another Hundred Years War in the making.


----------



## The SC

Urgent New York Times: The United States provided information that helped the Ukrainians kill Russian generals

@AsharqNewsBrk


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522004425715462147Where is the Neptune missile that supposedly sank the Moskova.. isn't it better than the Harpoon antiship missile..LOL

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## _Nabil_

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521953856606949382


Just another "Ghanima" for Russians


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521934250366447620

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## That Guy

The SC said:


> Urgent New York Times: The United States provided information that helped the Ukrainians kill Russian generals
> 
> @AsharqNewsBrk
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522004425715462147Where is the Neptune missile that supposedly sank the Moskova.. isn't it better than the Harpoon antiship missile..LOL


They had a limited number because AShMs are expensive to produce and maintain. Also, I assume the factory was probably damaged so I doubt Ukraine has the capabilities to produce advanced weapons anymore.



PakAlp said:


> 04/05/2022.
> Looks like a stalemate. Ukraine is giving Russia big problems down South with counter offensives.
> 
> View attachment 840960
> 
> 
> Finally Russia is overtaking the Steelworks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Communications lost with last defenders of Mariupol as Russia attacks
> 
> 
> Vadym Boichenko, exiled mayor of the near-totally destroyed city of Mariupol, says all communications with Ukrainian troops holed up inside the Azovstal steel works have now been lost.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fierce fighting under way in Mariupol’s Azovstal plant, says Azov commander
> 
> 
> Leader of Ukrainian forces says they are engaged in ‘difficult bloody battles’ against Russian troops, as another 344 civilians are evacuated
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia planning victory parade in Mariupol, Ukraine says
> 
> 
> Dead bodies and debris are being hastily cleaned from the streets of Mariupol ahead of a Russian victory parade, Ukraine's intelligence service has said. #EuropeNews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.euronews.com


They're attempting it, I doubt they'll succeed. They barely took Mariupol, taking Azovstal will be 100 time harder.

It was better to starve them out, but Putin's idiocy continues to sabotage Russian military plans. This is why you don't let spies plan wars.

As for the parade, what a joke. Not only are they gonna risk a potential Ukrainian attack during the parade, but they're parading in a completely destroyed city. This smells of desperation, nothing more.

Absolutely pathetic, the Russians have been a massive disappointment. I expected nothing, and I received even less.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522010234981687297


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522021939572711424

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522017088130351104


----------



## The SC

*AFP*: Russia simulated the launch of nuclear-capable missiles in Kaliningrad

@AsharqNewsBrk


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Corax said:


> That's because they are, there was a post on here showing a video of Israeli ex-servicemen in Ukraine with Azov neo-nazis. Not surprising really when Israel is essentially a right-wing fascist state dressed up in the garb of "democracy", like much of the West.


IMO there is no way the Israeli or Jew will fight along the side of the neo-NAZI AZOV battalion.
It is fabricated and simply illogical. 

Israel is still hunting for Nazi WW2 war criminals. 

That is why Israel refuse to join the US even she is an ally and abstained frim voting against Russia. US insensitivity.

I will take this news by FranceTV with a pinch of salt.


----------



## The SC

Urgent AFP: The United Kingdom and Japan are preparing to conclude a defense agreement

@AsharqNewsBrk



Russian Defense Minister: Any NATO transport loaded with weapons is a legitimate target if it reaches Ukraine.

@soldier2017kg


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522007702506930176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522007307520909312


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521605430308397058
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521847884857151489
> 
> Russian strikes in Lviv leave a quarter of a million people without electricity
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521837056699166720


I seriously doubt those are Russian soldiers as the main fighting in Ukraine are done by the miilitia of the DNR, Lugansk and Chechen regiments. 

The Russian units are mainly doing the encirclement. 

It is not uncommon to hear the Ukrainian referring to militias from DNR, Lugansk as Russian.

Moreover many of these images are recycle over and over again, we find it hard to corroborated all these tweets. But it both fun and frustration between fake news and the truth. Russians are not saying much.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521868766371622913


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522006713691430914

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## CAPRICORN-88

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522007702506930176
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522007307520909312


IMO it is obvious that the US and NATO are trying to draw Moldova into the conflicts. So far Moldova remained neutral. 

Russia has a military base there in Transnistria.

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## The SC

The head of U.S. Strategic Command, which oversees the nuclear arsenal, warned Congress Wednesday that Washington faces a heightened nuclear deterrence risk when it comes to Russia and China.

“We are facing a crisis deterrence dynamic right now that we have only seen a few times in our nation’s history,” Adm. Charles Richard told the Senate’s strategic forces panel. “The war in Ukraine and China’s nuclear trajectory — their strategic breakout — demonstrates that we have a deterrence and assurance gap based on the threat of limited nuclear employment.”


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522007745272156160

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522037441699491840
Putin will approve Tucker for President


----------



## mazeto

We have seen enough by now, the Russian military is disorganised.
But the war also showed where the Russians are shining⭐✨, some brilliantly:
1. Missiles: Ballistic, cruise, guided, unguided.. all are performing flawlessly. It's amazing to see missiles launched from hundreds of kms away slam 💥into the middle of a narrow bridge unerringly, every time. Bad news for NATO should nukes start flying. Not even one of the bigger missiles seem to have missed widely or dropped midway.. the way Tomahawks did.
2. Choppers : After the initial shootdowns by anti air, they seem to be doing rather well in such a hostile environment.
3. Morale: In spite of NATO propaganda, the individual Russian soldier and it's military seem to be in good spirits, well behaved and well fed.. maybe not well led.
4. Artillery.. whether shell or rocket based.

Compare their almost sedate demeanor during fighting or while capturing POWs with the angry and excited Ukrainian soldiers.
Russia should shoot down any NATO drones over the black Sea and say they mistook it for a TB2. They are feeding intelligence to sink your boats. 
Meanwhile why are there no mysterious explosions in NATO energy stocks yet?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521984868439269377

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521990934937968640

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522000343785213952

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## F-22Raptor

mazeto said:


> We have seen enough by now, the Russian military is disorganised.
> But the war also showed where the Russians are shining⭐✨, some brilliantly:
> 1. Missiles: Ballistic, cruise, guided, unguided.. all are performing flawlessly. It's amazing to see missiles launched from hundreds of kms away slam 💥into the middle of a narrow bridge unerringly, every time. Bad news for NATO should nukes start flying. Not even one of the bigger missiles seem to have missed widely or dropped midway.. the way Tomahawks did.
> 2. Choppers : After the initial shootdowns by anti air, they seem to be doing rather well in such a hostile environment.
> 3. Morale: In spite of NATO propaganda, the individual Russian soldier and it's military seem to be in good spirits, well behaved and well fed.. maybe not well led.
> 4. Artillery.. whether shell or rocket based.
> 
> Compare their almost sedate demeanor during fighting or while capturing POWs with the angry and excited Ukrainian soldiers.
> Meanwhile why are there no mysterious explosions in NATO energy stocks yet?



Russian missiles have had failure rates up to 60% and have missed their targets time and again. Don’t know what your talking about.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> IMO there is no way the Israeli or Jew will fight along the side of the neo-NAZI AZOV battalion.
> It is fabricated and simply illogical.
> 
> Israel is still hunting for Nazi WW2 war criminals.
> 
> That is why Israel refuse to join the US even she is an ally and abstained frim voting against Russia. US insensitivity.
> 
> I will take this news by FranceTV with a pinch of salt.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521823321737809920

Israelis desecrate the Russian flag in "Israel" during the celebration of the Holy Fire.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521903666667606017

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## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## mazeto

F-22Raptor said:


> Russian missiles have had failure rates up to 60% and have missed their targets time and again. Don’t know what your talking about.


 What do you mean by " missiles" ? Quote the source. 
If a kalibr, oniks, kinzhal Or such would have failed the video would have been drummed up for weeks by NATO.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521925077796851712

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

mazeto said:


> What do you mean by " missiles" ? Quote the source.
> If a kalibr, oniks, kinzhal Or such would have failed the video would have been drummed up for weeks by NATO.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507409440751992841
At the end of March

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521983326214672384


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522041154837045249

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521940418878922754

Pfffffff!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522008956075483137

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521956074332598275

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522002488722960387

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522016331960397825


----------



## K_Bin_W

mazeto said:


> What do you mean by " missiles" ? Quote the source.
> If a kalibr, oniks, kinzhal Or such would have failed the video would have been drummed up for weeks by NATO.


So far Russian missiles have been hitting their targets with pin point accuracy.

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## F-22Raptor

K_Bin_W said:


> So far Russian missiles have been hitting their targets with pin point accuracy.



That’s simply not true at all

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521910120535494661


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522010233442385920

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521881165996736521


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522008956075483137



Looks like a bombing run by Tu-22M3 strategic bomber.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522010234981687297

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522010233442385920



What difference would that make? Artillery didn't make much impact in WW1 despite millions of rounds were fired.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## PakAlp

That Guy said:


> They're attempting it, I doubt they'll succeed. They barely took Mariupol, taking Azovstal will be 100 time harder.
> 
> It was better to starve them out, but Putin's idiocy continues to sabotage Russian military plans. This is why you don't let spies plan wars.
> 
> As for the parade, what a joke. Not only are they gonna risk a potential Ukrainian attack during the parade, but they're parading in a completely destroyed city. This smells of desperation, nothing more.
> 
> Absolutely pathetic, the Russians have been a massive disappointment. I expected nothing, and I received even less.


They are already in the plant and all communication has been cut off. They will take it soon. But yes Russia a military super power is struggling, lack of planning, coordination, intelligence. Shocking. It shows the world that Russia is not the old power. If Russia fails then Nato will become more aggressive and expand as more countries will want to join due to fear/protection. Russia is the founding member of Shanghai Cooperation Organisation but the SCO is quiet, not even a statement in favour of Russia, whilst Nato is openly supporting Ukraine.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522004999273914368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522016268928360450

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521999189927940099


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521823321737809920



 

These may be the screwed up Israeli mercenaries who did it for money and never studied their histories. 

China save so many Israeli lives from the holocaust in Europe. They were shipped and offered sancturies and home in China.

today many of the US originated Jews acted so ungratefully and advocate hostilities against China e.g. Anotony Blinkens.


----------



## mazeto

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507409440751992841
> At the end of March


 Another pompous Western guy pulling uncorroborated figures outta his *** and quoting unnamed US intelligence sources.
This schtick doesn't work anymore, the world has moved on

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## CAPRICORN-88

mazeto said:


> Another pompous Western guy pulling uncorroborated figures outta his *** and quoting unnamed US intelligence sources.
> This schtick doesn't work anymore, the world has moved on



Inaccurate? I won't not underestimate them Russians. 

They destroyed most of the weapons, power stations, railway bridges and stations being delivered to Ukraine with high precisions.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522031288483340288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522031731418705921

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522034476661977088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522013643663036416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522035149705138176


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

mazeto said:


> Another pompous Western guy pulling uncorroborated figures outta his *** and quoting unnamed US intelligence sources.
> This schtick doesn't work anymore, the world has moved on


These guys still retained a supremacist mindset.

Yes. The world have since move on while the US is still struggling with high inflation.
While in 2021 China added USD 3 trillion to her GDP while US merely 763 billion. 

The GDP Q1 GDP of the US has contracted and she has approved USD33 billion military hardware to Ukraine.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521895522545586176


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522010233442385920


I think the stalemate will become more difficult for Russia as the pledged western weapons reach frontline. Russia may also be able to strengthen their logistics, but their weapons may not be as good.


----------



## That Guy

PakAlp said:


> They are already in the plant and all communication has been cut off. They will take it soon. But yes Russia a military super power is struggling, lack of planning, coordination, intelligence. Shocking. It shows the world that Russia is not the old power. If Russia fails then Nato will become more aggressive and expand as more countries will want to join due to fear/protection. Russia is the founding member of Shanghai Cooperation Organisation but the SCO is quiet, not even a statement in favour of Russia, whilst Nato is openly supporting Ukraine.


They're attempting to enter, they aren't in yet.

Also, cutting off coms there is fairly easy, just set up jammers.

Russian Federation was never a super power, the USSR was.

If nations are joining NATO, it's Russia's own fault.

SCO is not a defensive Treaty, and even if it was, Russia invaded Ukraine and set off these hostilities, not the other way around. The SCO had no role to play here.

This entire war has proven that Russia has been and will always be a joke...a deadly joke, but a joke none the less. It is not a clown, it is the entire circus.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521803399473205249

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Wood said:


> I think the stalemate will become more difficult for Russia as the pledged western weapons reach frontline. Russia may also be and to strengthen their logistics, but their weapons may not be as good.



The amount of artillery the West gave Ukraine is peanuts compared to the amount of artillery Russia uses. It's a drop in a bucket.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521774808689790976

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## That Guy

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521803399473205249


They've said thus multiple times since the start of the war. They've even tried and failed more times than they've succeeded.

The Russians are a joke at this point.

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## RescueRanger

*Former British Solider who was dishonourably discharged after committing robbery & how he joined the Azov regiment “by mistake”.*





Mark Ayres - A former British Army solider who joined the Azov Regiment “by mistake”.

Mr Ayres a 47 year old former British Army soldier who previously served with the Royal Green Jackets *before being discharged after a robbery conviction.*






Mr Ayres told Sky News: "*By accident I joined the Azov unit*. That would have been my last choice of a unit to go to but I'm pretty glad I did.

"*They're probably are some psychos in the battalion* but I haven't come across any yet," he added.

He told reporters that since arriving in Ukraine "*I haven't really seen any fighting*, it's just been artillery. *Just getting smashed by artillery.*"

Mr Ayers told the reporters that the *Ukrainians were now reluctant to take on volunteers from the West* saying:

*"I think there was one geezer who fired an anti-tank missile in his room and f****d himself up. 😂

"Just problems. They always cause problems."*

You can read the full article here:








Ukraine war: Briton who joined Azov Regiment with far-right origins says they're not 'monsters and psychos'


Mark Ayres has spent the past two months in Ukraine after joining the Azov Regiment, which originated as a far-right paramilitary unit. The British Army veteran insists he has challenged some Azov fighters over their beliefs and those he has met are not "monsters and psychos".




news.sky.com

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## mmr

mazeto said:


> We have seen enough by now, the Russian military is disorganised.
> But the war also showed where the Russians are shining⭐✨, some brilliantly:
> 1. Missiles: Ballistic, cruise, guided, unguided.. all are performing flawlessly. It's amazing to see missiles launched from hundreds of kms away slam 💥into the middle of a narrow bridge unerringly, every time. Bad news for NATO should nukes start flying. Not even one of the bigger missiles seem to have missed widely or dropped midway.. the way Tomahawks did.
> 2. Choppers : After the initial shootdowns by anti air, they seem to be doing rather well in such a hostile environment.
> 3. Morale: In spite of NATO propaganda, the individual Russian soldier and it's military seem to be in good spirits, well behaved and well fed.. maybe not well led.
> 4. Artillery.. whether shell or rocket based.
> 
> Compare their almost sedate demeanor during fighting or while capturing POWs with the angry and excited Ukrainian soldiers.
> Russia should shoot down any NATO drones over the black Sea and say they mistook it for a TB2. They are feeding intelligence to sink your boats.
> Meanwhile why are there no mysterious explosions in NATO energy stocks yet?


are u for real lol

seems ccp bots live in alternate universe



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521774808689790976


for fuks sake same BS daily...nuke threat daily.....nato dont send arms...bla bla

USA simply dont give **** lol


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## PakFactor

PakAlp said:


> They are already in the plant and all communication has been cut off. They will take it soon. But yes Russia a military super power is struggling, lack of planning, coordination, intelligence. Shocking. It shows the world that Russia is not the old power. If Russia fails then Nato will become more aggressive and expand as more countries will want to join due to fear/protection. Russia is the founding member of Shanghai Cooperation Organisation but the SCO is quiet, not even a statement in favour of Russia, whilst Nato is openly supporting Ukraine.





That Guy said:


> They're attempting to enter, they aren't in yet.
> 
> Also, cutting off coms there is fairly easy, just set up jammers.
> 
> Russian Federation was never a super power, the USSR was.
> 
> If nations are joining NATO, it's Russia's own fault.
> 
> SCO is not a defensive Treaty, and even if it was, Russia invaded Ukraine and set off these hostilities, not the other way around. The SCO had no role to play here.
> 
> This entire war has proven that Russia has been and will always be a joke...a deadly joke, but a joke none the less. It is not a clown, it is the entire circus.



Over the last 2 months below is my observation:

1) They waited to long (8+ years) to assault Ukraine. This allowed them to train with Western forces and integrate at some levels (ex. Intel and Command/Control).
2) A heavily conscripted force was used as the main assault force against a highly trained and ready army.
3) They went in half-assed with a 150K-200K force in a country the size of Ukraine.
4) Lack of integration between various Russians Arms (Army & Air Force).
5) Poor tactics and strategy all around, tried to fight American Style using Soviet mindset and equipment.
6) Corruption within the establishment shows the Russian Army is hollow inside/out. One unit had only 1 out of 10 tanks operational.
7) As @That Guy stated Putin is to involved in the planning of this war, and most likely not allowing proper commanders to plan.
8) Bad Intel from the get go, that Russians will be welcomed with open arms.
9) With point 6) spy's leaking information.
10) Not targeting supply routes, started attacking East Ukraine when they should've cut it off from rest of Europe in the West completely using the conscripted force.
11) Trying to control infrastructure damage.

To come out of this the Russian's have only one option left:

*Go all out with the full might of the Russian Army, Air Force and Navy and decimate all of Ukraine the damage to your economy is done it's finished and you have nothing else to lose.*

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## WotTen

Tai Hai Chen said:


> The amount of artillery the West gave Ukraine is peanuts compared to the amount of artillery Russia uses. It's a drop in a bucket.



It's amusing to read the analyses from internet warriors and backseat drivers on the NATO side. Claims that Russia has used up 70% of this and 90% of that stock. The sober reality is that Russia must restrain itself and keep the bulk of its capability in store for the eventuality that NATO might join the conflict directly.

Perhaps some in NATO are hoping to deplete Russia's stocks to the point where NATO would have a cakewalk in a direct confrontation. While there is no doubt that NATO would win a conventional conflict anyway, Russia is surely keeping enough punch in reserve to make it a Pyrrhic victory for NATO.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521771386452197377


PakFactor said:


> Over the last 2 months below is my observation:
> 
> 1) They waited to long (8+ years) to assault Ukraine. This allowed them to train with Western forces and integrate at some levels (ex. Intel and Command/Control).
> 2) A heavily conscripted force was used as the main assault force against a highly trained and ready army.
> 3) They went in half-assed with a 150K-200K force in a country the size of Ukraine.
> 4) Lack of integration between various Russians Arms (Army & Air Force).
> 5) Poor tactics and strategy all around, tried to fight American Style using Soviet mindset and equipment.
> 6) Corruption within the establishment shows the Russian Army is hollow inside/out. One unit had only 1 out of 10 tanks operational.
> 7) As @That Guy stated Putin is to involved in the planning of this war, and most likely not allowing proper commanders to plan.
> 8) Bad Intel from the get go, that Russians will be welcomed with open arms.
> 9) With point 6) spy's leaking information.
> 10) Not targeting supply routes, started attacking East Ukraine when they should've cut it off from rest of Europe in the West completely using the conscripted force.
> 11) Trying to control infrastructure damage.
> 
> To come out of this the Russian's have only one option left:
> 
> *Go all out with the full might of the Russian Army, Air Force and Navy and decimate all of Ukraine the damage to your economy is done it's finished and you have nothing else to lose.*


Despite all that is said, the only and biggest loser in this war is Ukraine, which destroyed its infrastructure and displaced its people..

Russia, whatever its losses, remain very limited losses. Tanks and combat vehicles were originally made for war and can be compensated very easily, especially with the rise in fuel prices. As for the military level, it is clear that Russia has specific goals in this war, and the goal is not to occupy Ukraine completely, It is clear that Russia did not use excessive force in its war.. In fact, Russia had finished with the Ukrainian army a long time ago. It is fighting the remnants of the army and Western mercenaries supported by anti-armor.. Russia does not currently face a regular army
The West, with its current support, seeks to delay Russia from achieving its goals, and not to win the battle.. The current logic says so without emotion.. At the moment, the Russians are fighting in Ukraine and celebrating Victory Day in Russia, and the people live their lives normally, unlike Ukraine, with sounding sirens at every moment..

And if you remember before the war, Biden was asked by the press what he would do if Putin invaded Ukraine. Biden replied that Putin would pay the price very dearly, but on the ground we see support with weapons that do not change the course of battles, and I see that the Russians are in this war as if they are on a picnic and do whatever they want Despite the West, even their statements are calm and quiet compared to the West, which makes angry statements every day and rages the media..

This only indicates the Russians’ imposition of the fait accompli and the inability of the West to deter it as it should. That is why It is said that the current Western support for Ukraine is only to save face..

So, without passion and prejudice with this current Western support, Russia can continue for very many years, while every day that passes by, Ukrainian people pay the price..

Some people want Ukraine to be completely crushed so that Russia will be said to be strong..
Normally, the classification of the strength of armies is not based on the number of their tanks and soldiers, but on their ability to deter.. Despite that, if the Russian army is classified in terms of the number of war systems and gear, it is ranked 3rd after the United States and China. No single country in NATO has more equipment than Russia. 

And In terms of real raw power, it is ranked first because it is the country with the most ballistic missiles. The most dangerous ballistic missile.. that is..

Since in war everything is permissible if you do not need to use strategic weapons today, then surely because there is no need to use them, but circumstances may necessitate their use tomorrow..

As for the statements about nuclear readiness, this is just an outright provocation to the West, as it is well aware that this is the biggest deterrent to Western countries from real support for Ukraine. Perhaps the best example is the experience that Russia conducted of its Sarmat 2 missile, launching it from the western borders to the eastern borders of Russia at a distance of more than 5,000 km, and their declaration of the success of the launch, and even more than that, their statement that Sarmat 2 will guarantee Russian national security for many years and no country will think of violating their national security. They added that the missile has no equivalent in the whole world and can destroy a country the size of France.. that's why the West is not stupid, they know very well with what to supports Ukraine.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521628904104075270

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

WotTen said:


> The sober reality is that Russia must restrain itself and keep the bulk of its capability in store for the eventuality that NATO might join the conflict directly.



NATO won't join the conflict directly. NATO people are sissies these days. They are ultra liberals. They cater to the weak, the poor, the disabled, the mentally fragile, non whites. Unlike in Russia where everyone pays the same tax, in NATO the richer you are, the more tax you pay. NATO people are not fit for combat. Even the thought of war makes NATO people pee their pants. Hell, NATO people can't even beat sandal wearing people in Afghanistan.

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## WotTen

Tai Hai Chen said:


> NATO won't join the conflict directly. NATO people are sissies these days. They are ultra liberals. They cater to the weak, the poor, the disabled, the mentally fragile, non whites. Unlike in Russia where everyone pays the same tax, in NATO the richer you are, the more tax you pay. NATO people are not fit for combat. Even the thought of war makes NATO people pee their pants. Hell, NATO people can't even beat sandal wearing people in Afghanistan.



Lol wut?


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

WotTen said:


> Lol wut?



It's explained in my thread. 






No. No. NO. NATO will not fight Russia in Ukraine. And here's why.


NATO won't join the conflict directly. NATO people are sissies these days. They are ultra liberals. They cater to the weak, the poor, the disabled, the mentally fragile, non whites. Unlike in Russia where everyone pays the same tax, in NATO the richer you are, the more tax you pay. NATO people...



defence.pk


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## KAL-EL

Tai Hai Chen said:


> NATO won't join the conflict directly. NATO people are sissies these days. They are ultra liberals. They cater to the weak, the poor, the disabled, the mentally fragile, non whites. Unlike in Russia where everyone pays the same tax, in NATO the richer you are, the more tax you pay. NATO people are not fit for combat. Even the thought of war makes NATO people pee their pants. Hell, NATO people can't even beat sandal wearing people in Afghanistan.



I'm trying to comprehend

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## Soldier35

The work of the ACS 2S7M "Malka" in Ukraine. Despite its advanced age, and the "Malka" was developed on the basis of the older 2S7 "Peony" self-propelled gun, the 2S7M "Malka" in Ukraine with a caliber of 203 mm is in demand and is now used by the troops.






Footage of the combat departure of the Su-24M aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces in Ukraine. The video shows the moment when the Su-24M low-altitude FAB-250SH aerial bombs are dropped on the positions of the Ukrainian army, the bomb explodes in several modes, in this case it shows a delay in the response time

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521819123159818240
Ok, when Russian oil leaves the European market, who will enter its place?
The one who will enter his place will leave a void in another place, and that place will look for Russian oil to compensate.. This issue leads to an increase in oil transportation distances, and consequently an increase in consumption and an increase in demand and prices. All producers are beneficiaries and all consumers will suffer..

How will Europe compensate for Russian oil?

Venezuela is punished
Iran is punished

Iraq, Saudi Arabia and the UAE, most of their exports go to China, India, South Korea and Japan

Where will Europe buy its oil? Oil contracts will rise at least to 150-170 dollars a barrel!

The rise in oil will affect everything from transportation, foodstuffs, medicines, and a huge purchase bill that will hit the economies of most countries..

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## RescueRanger

KAL-EL said:


> I'm trying to comprehend


Maybe it’s code? 😂

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## Hack-Hook

That Guy said:


> They had a limited number because AShMs are expensive to produce and maintain. Also, I assume the factory was probably damaged so I doubt Ukraine has the capabilities to produce advanced weapons anymore.


a lot cheaper than normal cruise missiles



CAPRICORN-88 said:


> IMO there is no way the Israeli or Jew will fight along the side of the neo-NAZI AZOV battalion.
> It is fabricated and simply illogical.
> 
> Israel is still hunting for Nazi WW2 war criminals.
> 
> That is why Israel refuse to join the US even she is an ally and abstained frim voting against Russia. US insensitivity.
> 
> I will take this news by FranceTV with a pinch of salt.


war criminal , more like conscript guards


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## DF41

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521935605332066304
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521937255409008643
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521951876509585409
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521956350435401730





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521935605332066304

https://www.bilibili.tv/en/video/2004322636?s_locale=en_GB&from=Copyright sang by one who cannot sing Russian

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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Not even WW2 disintegrated Russia, what makes you think a little Ukraine can disintegrate Russia? Also, Russia never disintegrated. It was USSR that did. Russia maintained its territorial integrity when USSR disintegrated. Keep in mind British empire and French empire both disintegrated.


Russia is diverse, multiethnic country bound together by a strong man in the kremlin. If the Turks and muslim folks in the causa steppe suffer hunger and starvation like in the Zar period they will revolt. Russia today is closer to that stage than ever.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Russia is diverse, multiethnic country bound together by a strong man in the kremlin. If the Turks and muslim folks in the causa steppe suffer hunger and starvation like in the Zar period they will revolt. Russia today is closer to that stage than ever.



Not gonna happen. Russian is 81% of Russian population. If there is a country close to breakup, it's the US which is far more ethnic diverse where whites are 55% of the population.

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## The SC

DF41 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521935605332066304
> 
> https://www.bilibili.tv/en/video/2004322636?s_locale=en_GB&from=Copyright sang by one who cannot sing Russian


Here it is for you..

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## Viet

Germany delivers 7x Pzb 2000 to Ukraine.






Quelle: dpa Infografik, Infografik WELT














Waffenlieferungen: Bundesregierung will Panzerhaubitzen 2000 an die Ukraine liefern - WELT


Sieben Panzerhaubitzen 2000 will die Bundesregierung nach WELT-Informationen an die Ukraine liefern. Die Entscheidung des Kanzleramtes und des Verteidigungsministeriums erfolgte offenbar gegen den Ratschlag führender Militärs der Bundeswehr.




www.welt.de

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Germany delivers 7x Pzb 2000 to Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quelle: dpa Infografik, Infografik WELT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Waffenlieferungen: Bundesregierung will Panzerhaubitzen 2000 an die Ukraine liefern - WELT
> 
> 
> Sieben Panzerhaubitzen 2000 will die Bundesregierung nach WELT-Informationen an die Ukraine liefern. Die Entscheidung des Kanzleramtes und des Verteidigungsministeriums erfolgte offenbar gegen den Ratschlag führender Militärs der Bundeswehr.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.welt.de



Won't even last a month. Russian armed drones hunt them down.

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## The SC

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Not gonna happen. Russian is 81% of Russian population. If there is a country close to breakup, it's the US which is far more ethnic diverse where whites are 55% of the population.







Victory Day parade in Moscow 2015 (India and China troops)​

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## Gripen9

Is this true?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521803824154951681

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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Won't even last a month. Russian armed drones hunt them down.


Wait. Ukraine will receive drone and artillery defense system from Germany.
Spexer and Cobra.


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## RescueRanger

Gripen9 said:


> Is this true?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521803824154951681


He was there as a volunteer not representing Canadian forces - that’s the rumour anyway.

—-
In other news: all the chatter seems to suggest Mariupol is going to fall in the coming days. The Russians should allow the UN/ICRC to evacuate civilians from Azovstal Steel Plant.


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## KAL-EL

RescueRanger said:


> Maybe it’s code? 😂



Well if it is, I'm almost embarrassed to admit it could be beyond me.

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## Gripen9

RescueRanger said:


> He was there as a volunteer not representing Canadian forces - that’s the rumour anyway.
> 
> —-
> In other news: all the chatter seems to suggest Mariupol is going to fall in the coming days. The Russians should allow the UN/ICRC to evacuate civilians from Azovstal Steel Plant.



Got it. Yeah sounded a bit weird.
What are civvies doing in that Azovstal Steel Plant?

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## RescueRanger

Gripen9 said:


> Got it. Yeah sounded a bit weird.
> What are civvies doing in that Azovstal Steel Plant?


So there is a reason behind that - the plat has a basement bunker designed to withstand a nuclear blast.

Civilians were invited to take shelter there - those who couldn’t evacuate in time.

But when the UAF pulled back and went turtle (defensive) they also fell back to the plant and decided to use it as a base / base of operations so made it a target.

I don’t blame the Ukrainians - soldiers are humans too and after all it’s their country - my heart does go out to the people of Ukraine.

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## Gripen9

RescueRanger said:


> So there is a reason behind that - the plat has a basement bunker designed to withstand a nuclear blast.
> 
> Civilians were invited to take shelter there - those who couldn’t evacuate in time.
> 
> But when the UAF pulled back and went turtle (defensive) they also fell back to the plant and decided to use it as a base / base of operations so made it a target.
> 
> I don’t blame the Ukrainians - soldiers are humans too and after all it’s their country - my heart does go out to the people of Ukraine.


Makes sense. I was worried those Azov Battalion aka "The Nazis" took them in as Human Shields.

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## CAPRICORN-88



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## Viet

Gripen9 said:


> Got it. Yeah sounded a bit weird.
> What are civvies doing in that Azovstal Steel Plant?


They seek shelter against russo bombardment what else? The steelworks offer the best protection. Much better than inhouse bunker if any exist at all.



Gripen9 said:


> Makes sense. I was worried those Azov Battalion aka "The Nazis" took them in as Human Shields.


According to kremlin propaganda any Ukrainan who refuses to be Russian no matter man, women, baby or elder is Nazi.

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## Viet

The graph below shows Germany’s gas reserves, from which the biggest gas reserves tanks belong to Russia state company Gasprom.

That indicates Putin has made the decision to go to war against Ukrainian in the first week of Oct 2021.

Germany biggest gas reserves fell to 0.5 percent at the lowest point. Putin Intention: pushing gas prices, blackmailing Germany and EU over gas embargo.

Since nationalized, Germany gas reserves rise again. Very fast.


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## Apollon

Trango Towers said:


> I said clear lines are being drawn...Russia and China in one camp and west in the other
> 
> 
> Is their economy as weak as your?



Russia and China is no camp. Its just China. The difference in power projection is so gigantic, that russia simply plays no role

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## serenity

Apollon said:


> Russia and China is no camp. Its just China. The difference in power projection is so gigantic, that russia simply plays no role



Russia's power on the international stage can be high enough just on how much resources they have.

Russia supplies millions of barrels of crude oil to China per day. If they stopped, where would China access that energy to offset the difference? Iran, Saudi Arabia, and all other sources of energy including coal cannot simply make up for millions of barrels of crude oil every day even though their capacity in supplying China is already strong.

Energy is priority 1 for every country especially if the country has massive volume of industry and such a big part of the economy depends on it. If Russia stops selling energy to China, there is no immediate solution. To the point even if Russia and China were at war and Russia is willing to sell, China would buy from her lol.

Here is also where Russia power over Europe derives from also. It will become more obvious in time how much her influence is just by being "petrol station". Even that alone makes her a great regional power at least.

This is why Russia wants to play fortress Russia strategy. Time is on her side because all that the other players are playing for are already there. Russia is the Eurasian heartland. The game is over as long as she manages to fully develop and become a scientific and industrial power on the level of all the other major players. Then Russia would undisputed superpower. I think Russian leaders may understand this but a lot of arrogance and complacency also comes from knowing this deep down.

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## Trango Towers

Apollon said:


> Russia and China is no camp. Its just China. The difference in power projection is so gigantic, that russia simply plays no role


OK...so Russia is doing nothing globally...Syria Mali Libya just happen to be myths created by western lies.


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## PakAlp

That Guy said:


> They're attempting to enter, they aren't in yet.
> 
> Also, cutting off coms there is fairly easy, just set up jammers.
> 
> Russian Federation was never a super power, the USSR was.
> 
> If nations are joining NATO, it's Russia's own fault.
> 
> SCO is not a defensive Treaty, and even if it was, Russia invaded Ukraine and set off these hostilities, not the other way around. The SCO had no role to play here.
> 
> This entire war has proven that Russia has been and will always be a joke...a deadly joke, but a joke none the less. It is not a clown, it is the entire circus.


Military wise they were considered a super power. They are able to compete with the USA technology wise, numerically they cannot because of economy. Usa attacked Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya but was backed by Nato and allies. It shows their power to the world. I was expecting similar from the Russians, they wanted to create their own Nato and EU to compete. In Syria, Nato and usa wanted to remove Bashar al Assad but Russia joined the war on behalf of Bashar and Nato backed out. It shows Russia was considered a very powerful military force. If they loose in Ukraine then more trouble will follow around the world, Nato and allies will make sure Russia looses all influence and power around the world including in Syria, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Armenia, Central Asia.


----------



## PakAlp

PakFactor said:


> Over the last 2 months below is my observation:
> 
> 1) They waited to long (8+ years) to assault Ukraine. This allowed them to train with Western forces and integrate at some levels (ex. Intel and Command/Control).
> 2) A heavily conscripted force was used as the main assault force against a highly trained and ready army.
> 3) They went in half-assed with a 150K-200K force in a country the size of Ukraine.
> 4) Lack of integration between various Russians Arms (Army & Air Force).
> 5) Poor tactics and strategy all around, tried to fight American Style using Soviet mindset and equipment.
> 6) Corruption within the establishment shows the Russian Army is hollow inside/out. One unit had only 1 out of 10 tanks operational.
> 7) As @That Guy stated Putin is to involved in the planning of this war, and most likely not allowing proper commanders to plan.
> 8) Bad Intel from the get go, that Russians will be welcomed with open arms.
> 9) With point 6) spy's leaking information.
> 10) Not targeting supply routes, started attacking East Ukraine when they should've cut it off from rest of Europe in the West completely using the conscripted force.
> 11) Trying to control infrastructure damage.
> 
> To come out of this the Russian's have only one option left:
> 
> *Go all out with the full might of the Russian Army, Air Force and Navy and decimate all of Ukraine the damage to your economy is done it's finished and you have nothing else to lose.*


The Russians sent the army and quickly overtook areas all the way up to Kiev. This backfired as the Ukrainians ambushed the Russians and destroyed and killed 1000s.

I expected the Russians for atleast a month to attack Ukraine with their long range airforce, drones to destroy all anti aircraft missiles, fighter jets and once they had the air dominance then they would send the army. Not sure where are their accurate air to surface missiles and why they failed to destroy SA missiles and fighter jets. Where is their intelligence, they should be able to identify all hostile entities and target them where they move, they should be able to destroy all weapon shipments sent to Ukraine from Nato. People are saying Howitzers are a major threat to Russia but Russian airforce should be able to annihilate them. In another words completely dominate the war.

I now see a big tactical change in the Russians, they withdrew from the North and are fighting in the East and South, moving slowly and finishing any resistance on the way, street to street and house to house. This is so they do not get ambushed. Their aim should be take all Donbass region, take the South and East to make a new pro Russian government but do they have the peoples support? I wouldn't bet on Russians doing their homework.

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## Apollon

serenity said:


> Russia's power on the international stage can be high enough just on how much resources they have.
> 
> Russia supplies millions of barrels of crude oil to China per day. If they stopped, where would China access that energy to offset the difference? Iran, Saudi Arabia, and all other sources of energy including coal cannot simply make up for millions of barrels of crude oil every day even though their capacity in supplying China is already strong.
> 
> Energy is priority 1 for every country especially if the country has massive volume of industry and such a big part of the economy depends on it. If Russia stops selling energy to China, there is no immediate solution. To the point even if Russia and China were at war and Russia is willing to sell, China would buy from her lol.
> 
> Here is also where Russia power over Europe derives from also. It will become more obvious in time how much her influence is just by being "petrol station". Even that alone makes her a great regional power at least.
> 
> This is why Russia wants to play fortress Russia strategy. Time is on her side because all that the other players are playing for are already there. Russia is the Eurasian heartland. The game is over as long as she manages to fully develop and become a scientific and industrial power on the level of all the other major players. Then Russia would undisputed superpower. I think Russian leaders may understand this but a lot of arrogance and complacency also comes from knowing this deep down.



What would stop china to simply take it? Russia has no functional military. 

Russia also is not Eurasia heartland. It has no people, poor economy and currently is sealed of from Europe



Trango Towers said:


> OK...so Russia is doing nothing globally...Syria Mali Libya just happen to be myths created by western lies.



Russia has economy smaller than spain. 


Spain or Botswana could send mercs to Mali, Libya or Syria too.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522129221610618880


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## Vergennes

Russia has already too few of them and they are already losing them 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522130781929365506

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## Trango Towers

Apollon said:


> What would stop china to simply take it? Russia has no functional military.
> 
> Russia also is not Eurasia heartland. It has no people, poor economy and currently is sealed of from Europe
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has economy smaller than spain.
> 
> 
> Spain or Botswana could send mercs to Mali, Libya or Syria too.


But bigger than your country..please stop waffling


----------



## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> Russian missiles have had failure rates up to 60% and have missed their targets time and again. Don’t know what your talking about.



What's your source for this claim? Western "intelligence"? The same intelligence that lied to the world claiming Iraq had WMDs?  The CIA PsychOps are working overtime to pump out anti-Russia propaganda, the shooting down of the Il-78 with hundreds of Russian paratroopers being the classic example.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Russia has already too few of them and they are already losing them
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522130781929365506





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521976477876912128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521958732158144519


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522104962767073281

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522152909684850688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522153648628842496

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## Trango Towers

65.66 rubles to a dollar. 
Rubble strongest in 2 years.
Oh the western propaganda

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## CAPRICORN-88

Trango Towers said:


> 65.66 rubles to a dollar.
> Rubble strongest in 2 years.
> Oh the western propaganda


Didn't some trolls in here claimed that economy of Russia has collapsed and the Rouble will be in a free fall?

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## beast89

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522104962767073281


Hunter Biden sends his regards from his laptop

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## Vergennes

Trango Towers said:


> 65.66 rubles to a dollar.
> Rubble strongest in 2 years.
> Oh the western propaganda





CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Didn't some trolls in here claimed that economy of Russia has collapsed and the Rouble will be in a free fall?



You lot forgot the Russian central bank increased its key rates to 20% and invested massively to prevent the collapse of the ruble but as a consequence of destroying the economic growth... Forecasts predict a 10% recession for Russia in 2022.... meanwhile sanctions will take effect on the Russian economy and soon with gas and oil embargo it's going to get funny.

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## Bengal71

RescueRanger said:


> I honestly believe the time has come for a new social media platform 😂



https://truthsocial.com/

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## Corax

Vergennes said:


> You lot forgot the Russian central bank increased its key rates to 20% and invested massively to prevent the collapse of the ruble but as a consequence of destroying the economic growth... Forecasts predict a 10% recession for Russia in 2022.... meanwhile sanctions will take effect on the Russian economy and soon with gas and oil embargo it's going to get funny.



The EU oil embargo is unlikely to work, Hungary will veto it...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-61319518

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## RescueRanger

Bengal71 said:


> https://truthsocial.com/


Lol 😂


----------



## Viet

Apollon said:


> Russia and China is no camp. Its just China. The difference in power projection is so gigantic, that russia simply plays no role


The incoming oil embargo will hit Putin to the nerves. Russia sells half of oil to EU. China and India can’t absorb the surplus.

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## serenity

Apollon said:


> What would stop china to simply take it? Russia has no functional military.
> 
> Russia also is not Eurasia heartland. It has no people, poor economy and currently is sealed of from Europe
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has economy smaller than spain.
> 
> 
> Spain or Botswana could send mercs to Mali, Libya or Syria too.



What's stopping any power from taking over Russia? Because they have a strong military unlike what you said about no functional military. Russia is using only a portion of its force in this war and Russia has not yet mobilized. At least this is according to Russia itself and most international estimates of it. Russia also has many thousands of nuclear weapons in case you forgotten. No power dares to touch Russia's actual land to try and take anything from them. Not China, not USA, not anyone or any alliance.

Russia is literally Mackinder's heartland. Eastern Europe is Mackinder's pivot areas.

Russia's natural material wealth is many times larger than Spain's economy. While Russia's total nominal economy is small but if we account for its entire known reserves of natural wealth, it is already probably equal or exceeding Europe since raw material and commodities will only ever become relatively more expensive until science can create useful valuable things from less useful e.g. from lead to gold basically. Until then, Russia's true power even if we ignore size and military, is very strong. They have nukes to protect their interests and their ownership of their land.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Vergennes said:


> You lot forgot the Russian central bank increased its key rates to 20% and invested massively to prevent the collapse of the ruble but as a consequence of destroying the economic growth... Forecasts predict a 10% recession for Russia in 2022.... meanwhile sanctions will take effect on the Russian economy and soon with gas and oil embargo it's going to get funny.


So what? It is a strategic move at the right time and in the right place. No repo needed.

  

Today It is down to 14% and that is only 4% higher than before thr conflict.

Russian economy is in a surplus. It is manageable unlike those of the US or EU with a runaway inflation. 

Australian dollar is now in a free fall.

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## serenity

If Europe truly goes with energy embargo for years or decades, the only winners are the oil producers. Europe loses out at least as much as Russia if it chooses so. Russia simply sells to others and they will find a buyer for every molecule of oil they produce since everyone not only wants to buy oil, they need to.

By doing that Europe is only doing the US a big favor while it hurts itself and seemingly hurts Russia. Basically Russia is the shop selling products that everyone needs to survive and Europe is telling the shop owner it will not buy food but rather find whatever is on the ground or go to another store that sells for 1.5x the price. It only hurts Europe. The other producers are going to love this and the USA is a producer too.

Well it's good for Iran, Saudi Arabia, UAE and so on. Every other major player is rushing to secure energy. Either way it's imperialist powers going at each other. Ukraine stuck between two powers and abused.

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## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## Vergennes



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## Ich

Vergennes said:


> View attachment 841060



Come on! Even the thermobaric rockets from TOS1a have 6 km range!  TOS1 are no more used.

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## Wood

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/ui8gar

Highlights the problem of EU as a political group. The veto and mutual consensus way of policy making will limit EU forever

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## Primus

Vergennes said:


> View attachment 841060


Tos1a has 6 miles range

Russia has the 2s7 pion can hit upto 34.5 mi

German spg should change that. Although only 7 being sent


----------



## Corax

Vergennes said:


> View attachment 841060



Incorrect ranges for Russian systems, and those are not the only systems at the disposal of the Russians, and they have larger numbers, not to mention attack from RuAF and longer range rocket artillery, e.g. Smerch and Urugan. Numbers provided by NATO too few, although the counter-battery radar could make a difference.

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## dbc

serenity said:


> If Europe truly goes with energy embargo for years or decades, the only winners are the oil producers. Europe loses out at least as much as Russia if it chooses so. Russia simply sells to others and they will find a buyer for every molecule of oil they produce since everyone not only wants to buy oil, they need to.
> 
> By doing that Europe is only doing the US a big favor while it hurts itself and seemingly hurts Russia. Basically Russia is the shop selling products that everyone needs to survive and Europe is telling the shop owner it will not buy food but rather find whatever is on the ground or go to another store that sells for 1.5x the price. It only hurts Europe. The other producers are going to love this and the USA is a producer too.
> 
> Well it's good for Iran, Saudi Arabia, UAE and so on. Every other major player is rushing to secure energy. Either way it's imperialist powers going at each other. Ukraine stuck between two powers and abused.



Russian production is expected to decline by 20% YoY without western tech and capital. You have to remember most Russian assets are brownfields and need advanced recovery techniques. 

Even today with access to western tech, Russian recovery rate is at meager 20% compared to 45% for the North Sea another brownfield with declining production.

So far, western firms are servicing existing contracts but not signing new ones in Russia. If this continues for another three years, Russia will be out of the energy business entirely.

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## Corax

dbc said:


> Russian production is expected to decline by 20% YoY without western tech and capital. You have to remember most Russian assets are brownfields and need advanced recovery techniques.
> 
> Even today with access to western tech, Russian recovery rate is at meager 20% compared to 45% for the North Sea another brownfield with declining production.
> 
> So far, western firms are servicing existing contracts but not signing new ones in Russia. If this continues for another three years, Russia will be out of the energy business entirely.



Can you provide a source for your figures? The Russians have been pumping oil long before the "West" turned up. I'm not sure why the "western" fanboys have this overblown myopic view that only they have the best technology and everyone else is living in the stone age.

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## Viet

Tesla speed
A race against time. Germany builds the first of a series of Lng terminals at seas of Wilhelmshaven.
A gas embargo against Russia one step closer.

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## zartosht

mmr said:


> Lol what ever help you to sleep at night



You must be a zionist or a little kid. 

Because those are the only group of people who are non-chalant about inflation

Kids are too stupid to understand 

Zionists are too spoiled to understand. For them money comes as easy as crying on media, holohoax shaming the US, german taxpayers to pay for everything needed. 

In the real world, non parasitic countries who actually have to earn their own money. For them sky rocketing food and energy prices are an existential threat to their way of life

Nobody is laughing about inflation little kid. Its close to 10% in some western countries. With no end in sight to its rise

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## dbc

Corax said:


> Can you provide a source for your figures? The Russians have been pumping oil long before the "West" turned up. I'm not sure why the "western" fanboys have this overblown myopic view that only they have the best technology and everyone else is living in the stone age.



Not really, western firms have operated in Soviet Russia. how do I know? my french father worked for Elf Aquitaine in Soviet Russia. Not to mention Stalin tried to nationalize western oil firms in the 1930's and failed.

as for facts and figures, do your own damned research, i don't have time to indulge trolls on the internet for free.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522180774795096066


----------



## Corax

dbc said:


> Not really, western firms have operated in Soviet Russia. how do I know? my french father worked for Elf Aquitaine in Soviet Russia. Not to mention Stalin tried to nationalize western oil firms in the 1930's and failed.
> 
> as for facts and figures, do your own damned research, i don't have time to indulge trolls on the internet for free.



In other word, all you have is hyperbole, hearsay, and wishful thinking pulled from where the sun don't shine. It's so amusing watching you rednecks squirm like slugs with what's going on at the moment, your global hegemony is being challenged and it's making you crap your pants.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522179605511168002

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## serenity

dbc said:


> Russian production is expected to decline by 20% YoY without western tech and capital. You have to remember most Russian assets are brownfields and need advanced recovery techniques.
> 
> Even today with access to western tech, Russian recovery rate is at meager 20% compared to 45% for the North Sea another brownfield with declining production.
> 
> So far, western firms are servicing existing contracts but not signing new ones in Russia. If this continues for another three years, Russia will be out of the energy business entirely.



Fair enough I'm sure this is accurate to an extent. But I do not think this is something to bank on. Will Russia simply sit on its hands during that time?

Recovery and refinery tech are not like mastering all known 7nm node production technologies. Not even like manufacturing other advanced technologies. Simply said, I think this obstacle, even if it is as extreme as a situation is hopeless now, they can overcome that. They can find ways around especially given time and definitely when they have the money to. Again this is not like buying nuclear technology or top secret stuff. Even if somehow their own cannot overcome technical problems, there are alternative solutions they can buy? Anyway that's probably unnecessary as the stuff you are hinting I daresay will not even be a real challenge if they need to do it. Simply said in the past they never needed to. Just like Germany doesn't need a space program similar to other space powers but doesn't mean they can't do it if they needed to. This is a minuscule challenge in comparison. If you truly believe they cannot and all other humans falter except the west, then that is your opinion and your view of how things work. It doesn't make it true.

Certainly the details matter a lot here and unless we're experts in this field and know precisely what it is they are missing and exactly how difficult it is to overcome those things, it isn't a bet at all to say Russia cannot easily deal with it. At most some trouble and this is assuming the worst for them and given only small resources and time to overcome their technical problems. I doubt very much their energy business totally stops because their own refinement technologies are today very dependent.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522070021437935616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522072629795954688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522077062684504064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522101348904226816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522105081662902272


Vergennes said:


> View attachment 841060



Howitzers are easy targets for armed drones. Without air defense they are done for.








Huffal said:


> Tos1a has 6 miles range
> 
> Russia has the 2s7 pion can hit upto 34.5 mi
> 
> German spg should change that. Although only 7 being sent



TOS-1A range is 6 km if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522190555031261186


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522142098320896000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522149309449314305

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522151858873151488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522185212360536064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522183345878503425


----------



## Vergennes

LMAO even Putin's whore is admitting Russia's three days special military operation isn't going according to plan 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522197114524258305

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> View attachment 841060



Russian RAPs have longer range, but we so far not seen Russian using 152mm anywhere close to its maximum range. On other hand, USA sent RAPs.

152mm outranges 122mm obviously, but there been no use of Russian artillery at ranges dramatically longer than 15km, except for shelling cities.

They have no FOs, and drone based killchains used by Ukrainians.

Ukrainians often use 122mm for CB by driving undetected within Russian range, and overwhelming Russian batteries with the rate of fire, and accuracy provided by drone FOs.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Vergennes said:


> LMAO even Putin's whore is admitting Russia's three days special military operation isn't going according to plan
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522197114524258305



It's not a 3 day op. It is a 300 years op.



Paul2 said:


> Russian RAPs have longer range, but we so far not seen Russian using 152mm anywhere close to its maximum range. On other hand, USA sent RAPs.
> 
> 152mm outranges 122mm obviously, but there been no use of Russian artillery at ranges dramatically longer than 15km, except for shelling cities.
> 
> They have no FOs, and drone based killchains used by Ukrainians.
> 
> Ukrainians often use 122mm for CB by driving withing Russian range, and overwhelming Russian batteries with the rate of fire.



Howitzers typically can't be used at their max range or else accuracy will be shit. They are usually fired from a few kilometers away.



Apollon said:


> What would stop china to simply take it? Russia has no functional military.
> 
> Russia also is not Eurasia heartland. It has no people, poor economy and currently is sealed of from Europe



Unlike America, China respect other countries borders. China has never invaded another country throughout human history.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522094795354775552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522082384186953729

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522189581654888448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522190977569599490

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522203615921852416


----------



## dbc

serenity said:


> Fair enough I'm sure this is accurate to an extent. But I do not think this is something to bank on. Will Russia simply sit on its hands during that time?
> 
> Recovery and refinery tech are not like mastering all known 7nm node production technologies. Not even like manufacturing other advanced technologies. Simply said, I think this obstacle, even if it is as extreme as a situation is hopeless now, they can overcome that. They can find ways around especially given time and definitely when they have the money to. Again this is not like buying nuclear technology or top secret stuff. Even if somehow their own cannot overcome technical problems, there are alternative solutions.
> 
> Certainly the details matter a lot here and unless we're experts in this field and know precisely what it is they are missing and exactly how difficult it is to overcome those things, it isn't a bet at all to say Russia cannot easily deal with it. At most some trouble and this is assuming the worst for them and given only small resources and time to overcome their technical problems. I doubt very much their energy business totally stops because their own refinement technologies are today very dependent.



it's not a refinery tech issue, it's related to exploration and production. Exploration and production encompasses all upstream/midstream activities from finding oil/gas to extracting and transporting to refineries. In Soviet times, the Russians already exploited easy to recover oil and gas. Current average recovery rates with the use of western technology is at 20%, without access to western know-how it will likely decline to unsustainable levels. 

Can the Russians develop the technology in-house? sure, given time and significant investment and skilled personnel. But all three are in short supply in Russia.


----------



## serenity

dbc said:


> it's not a refinery tech issue, it's related to exploration and production. Exploration and production encompasses all upstream/midstream activities from finding oil/gas to extracting and transporting to refineries. In Soviet times, the Russians already exploited easy to recover oil and gas. Current average recovery rates with the use of western technology is at 20%, without access to western know-how it will likely decline to unsustainable levels.
> 
> Can the Russians develop the technology in-house? sure, given time and significant investment and skilled personnel. But all three are in short supply in Russia.



Ah okay yeah depends how much effort they put in and the need. Perhaps catch up to western levels within years given right resources to the task or perhaps not. Either way I still don't think it would be reduced to zero energy exports. But even unsustainable levels reducing the industrial activity to effectively zero produces economic consequences that may create the necessary mechanism to overcome this that the Russia we assume may not have at the moment. As the value of the oil that would be produced potentially create the market incentive for others to assist or simply provide it and turn back on this policy. We have to see European and even American resolve on the political front.


----------



## Trango Towers

Vergennes said:


> You lot forgot the Russian central bank increased its key rates to 20% and invested massively to prevent the collapse of the ruble but as a consequence of destroying the economic growth... Forecasts predict a 10% recession for Russia in 2022.... meanwhile sanctions will take effect on the Russian economy and soon with gas and oil embargo it's going to get funny.


They predicted the ruble will collapse... and you will buy any thing

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## dbc

serenity said:


> Ah okay yeah depends how much effort they put in and the need. Perhaps catch up to western levels within years given right resources to the task or perhaps not. Either way I still don't think it would be reduced to zero energy exports. But even unsustainable levels reducing the industrial activity to effectively zero produces economic consequences that may create the necessary mechanism to overcome this that the Russia we assume may not have at the moment. As the value of the oil that would be produced potentially create the market incentive for others to assist or simply provide it and turn back on this policy. We have to see European and even American resolve on the political front.



for some perspective, when the US announced a ban on shale and deep sea technology in 2014, the russians revised their 2023 projections from 10 million barrels per day to 7 million per day. 

I don't see any way out for Russia, Putin will be sacrificed for a full reset with the west.


----------



## Ich

dbc said:


> for some perspective, when the US announced a ban on shale and deep sea technology in 2014, the russians revised their 2023 projections from 10 million barrels per day to 7 million per day.
> 
> I don't see any way out for Russia, Putin will be sacrificed for a full reset with the west.



I wouldnt buy deep sea drilling technology from the US. To much accidents happend there. I would, if really needed, prefer Brazil.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522213016816603138

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Wood




----------



## thetutle

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Not even WW2 disintegrated Russia, what makes you think a little Ukraine can disintegrate Russia? Also, Russia never disintegrated. It was USSR that did. Russia maintained its territorial integrity when USSR disintegrated. Keep in mind British empire and French empire both disintegrated.


Take a look at russia 1914 and today. Learn something


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522205157907435522

M777s in action!

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## dbc

Ich said:


> I wouldnt buy deep sea drilling technology from the US. To much accidents happend there. I would, if really needed, prefer Brazil.



really name one Brazilian deep water directional drilling company with in-house RSS and MWD/LWD tools.


----------



## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522205157907435522
> 
> M777s in action!




There’s still some uncertainty whether this is an M777. Either way, M777s are confirmed to be in action by DefSec Austin.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522224379798736899

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522169593468436480


----------



## RoadAmerica

The SC said:


> That's a double edged decision .. like being between a rock and a hard nuked place..


🤣
Now Russia is going to nuke everyone?
Come on man!


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522152909684850688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522153648628842496


----------



## Ich

dbc said:


> really name one Brazilian deep water directional drilling company with in-house RSS and MWD/LWD tools.



As far as i read Petrobas meanwhile has the expertise.



https://petrobras.com.br/en/our-activities/performance-areas/oil-and-gas-exploration-and-production/

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521920135040225283

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521920137993105410

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521920141881229313

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521920144607490056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521920147497365508

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521920151339294726


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## dbc

Ich said:


> As far as i read Petrobas meanwhile has the expertise.
> 
> 
> 
> https://petrobras.com.br/en/our-activities/performance-areas/oil-and-gas-exploration-and-production/



nope they subcontractor ..


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521920154128592900

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521920156485795840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521920159006576646

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521920162081001472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521920164979257344

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521920168103923715


----------



## That Guy

Hack-Hook said:


> a lot cheaper than normal cruise missiles
> 
> 
> war criminal , more like conscript guards


A 50% discount on a Lambo is still out of the reach of the average joe.

Meaning, cheaper doesn't mean affordable.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ali_12 said:


> It's high time Putin ends this war on Ukraine he is achieving nothing with more weapons comming from america and nato for Ukraine their Russian casualties will even grow more especially the 33 billion dollars americans weapons package for Ukraine this war will cost Russian armed forces dearly instead Russia should build an oil and gas pipeline to Ukraine and give relations with Ukraine a new start



Artillery don't make any impact. In WW1 they shot millions of artillery rounds and that did nothing without huge human wave assault.


----------



## yuba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522205157907435522
> 
> M777s in action!


American recon American weapons brave people willing to fight for their homeland hopefully a winning combination.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521920171052572672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521920173921517568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521920176316469250

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521920179017506816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521920181341233154

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521920184457785344

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Ich

dbc said:


> nope they subcontractor ..











Petrobras to Resume Building Its Own Platforms


Petrobras to resume building platforms no matter election outcome




www.oedigital.com

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521920187175428096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521920189570424833

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521965500422668292


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russian fascist invader with captured Javelins







Russia fascist invaders tank killing choppers attacking Ukrainian artillery supply trucks


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522070021437935616

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## dbc

Ich said:


> Petrobras to Resume Building Its Own Platforms
> 
> 
> Petrobras to resume building platforms no matter election outcome
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.oedigital.com


platform is the rig, lots of companies make land rigs. A few make jack ups and a hand full make deep sea semisubmersibles and drill ships (S.Korea/China).

drilling on the rig is sub contracted to American/European and sometimes Chinese providers. The Chinese have cornered the low tech / low cost tier, technical complex work is mainly done by American and some European firms.


----------



## Type59

Vergennes said:


> View attachment 841060


Heard of rocket artillery? Russians have counter battery radars too.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522199923269197825


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Type59 said:


> Heard of rocket artillery? Russians have counter battery radars too.



Counter battery radars have limited range. Drones have hundreds of kilometers of recon range.


----------



## Ich

dbc said:


> platform is the rig, lots of companies make land rigs. A few make jack ups and a hand full make deep sea semisubmersibles and drill ships (S.Korea/China).
> 
> drilling on the rig is sub contracted to American/European and sometimes Chinese providers. The Chinese have cornered the low tech / low cost tier, technical complex work is mainly done by American and some European firms.



Hö? So your arguement is that regardless Pertrobas build its own plattforms, Petrobas still be unable to use them, has to contract "American/European and sometimes Chinese providers"? Even from a non logical view it sounds crazy 😮


----------



## dbc

Ich said:


> Hö? So your arguement is that regardless Pertrobas build its own plattforms, Petrobas still be unable to use them, has to contract "American/European and sometimes Chinese providers"? Even from a non logical view it sounds crazy 😮



yes, the down hole equipment on the rig is provided by whoever wins the drilling contract independent of the rig operator.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522167412510048256


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522245577777500160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522242044621692931

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522241086592331776


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522107158686539776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522114964546277376

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

Corax said:


> Can you provide a source for your figures? The Russians have been pumping oil long before the "West" turned up. I'm not sure why the "western" fanboys have this overblown myopic view that only they have the best technology and everyone else is living in the stone age.


He is right. Look at Russian air traffic. With spare parts embargo by Boeing, Airbus russian airliners are doomed. Putin tries to stop the leaks by domestic made spare parts. No country in the world would allow Russian airliners with such uncertified parts to fly over their air space. They will drop from the sky.


----------



## Ich

dbc said:


> yes, the down hole equipment on the rig is provided by whoever wins the drilling contract independent of the rig operator.



So Petrobas has the platform, the technic, but is unable to drill with own workers? Cause only the one who has the drilling contract choose the workers? But Petrobas has the drilling contracts offcoast Brazil. So there is a flaw in your arguement. 

Or is it more that till now Petrobas has leased the platforms include the workers cause they has no own builded platform? Uh, that sounds logical! And soon with own platforms and still own drilling contracts only Petrobas will decide who work on his platforms and who not. Get over it.


----------



## The SC

Japan refused to join the embargo on oil imports from Russia, - the government


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522125787893219329


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522125370975297536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522123593227939840

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Viet

From the news, Germany supports Finland, Sweden to join the NATO.
Ukraine wants Germany as protector. So do all Eastern European countries. And do western countries. Except France.
All want to draw down the iron curtain to Russia.
Interesting, all want close tie to Germany. All want Germany as leading nation. Remarkable considering the atrocities Germany committed in the WWII.











__





ZEIT ONLINE | Lesen Sie zeit.de mit Werbung oder im PUR-Abo. Sie haben die Wahl.







www.zeit.de

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522136503824093185

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## letsrock

Viet said:


> From the news, Germany supports Finland, Sweden to join the NATO.
> Ukraine wants Germany as protector. So do all Eastern European countries. And do western countries. Except France.
> All want to draw down the iron curtain to Russia.
> Interesting, all want close tie to Germany. All want Germany as leading nation. Remarkable considering the atrocities Germany committed in the WWII.
> 
> View attachment 841127
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ZEIT ONLINE | Lesen Sie zeit.de mit Werbung oder im PUR-Abo. Sie haben die Wahl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.zeit.de



lets see for how long. Uk quit EU because of the mooching Poland did on them. Right now everyone got germany has the milching cow using their past guilt. They want german economy to power every radical east european country and military to support them as well. eventually it may break EU .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521785290658091008


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> From the news, Germany supports Finland, Sweden to join the NATO.
> Ukraine wants Germany as protector. So do all Eastern European countries. And do western countries. Except France.
> All want to draw down the iron curtain to Russia.
> Interesting, all want close tie to Germany. All want Germany as leading nation. Remarkable considering the atrocities Germany committed in the WWII.
> 
> View attachment 841127
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ZEIT ONLINE | Lesen Sie zeit.de mit Werbung oder im PUR-Abo. Sie haben die Wahl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.zeit.de



I think Germany will support but Hungary will veto. Hungary took vaccine from China and now China has it as a laptog.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522133235102367744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522178938033868801

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Viet

letsrock said:


> lets see for how long. Uk quit EU because of the mooching Poland did on them. Right now everyone got germany has the milching cow using their past guilt. They want german economy to power every radical east european country and military to support them as well. eventually it may break EU .


No worry, Germany says no limit to Ukraine refugees, no limit to Russian deserters. Every is welcome to enjoy their party.


----------



## dbc

Ich said:


> So Petrobas has the platform, the technic, but is unable to drill with own workers? Cause only the one who has the drilling contract choose the workers? But Petrobas has the drilling contracts offcoast Brazil. So there is a flaw in your arguement.
> 
> Or is it more that till now Petrobas has leased the platforms include the workers cause they has no own builded platform? Uh, that sounds logical! And soon with own platforms and still own drilling contracts only Petrobas will decide who work on his platforms and who not. Get over it.



you're not making any sense. Petrobras owns the rights to well, Petrobras may even operate the rig but there can be hundreds of third party service providers on the Petrobras offshore rig. I shared some links to a few contracts awarded by Petrobras to third party service providers in the last 12 months, i encourage you to educate yourself. 





__





Halliburton Company Signed $2.5 Billion Contract for Development of Barracuda and Caratinga Oil Fields Offshore Brazil - Halliburton


The Investor Relations website contains information about Halliburton's business for stockholders, potential investors, and financial analysts.




ir.halliburton.com









__





Aker Solutions Secures Subsea Services Framework Agreement With Petrobras


Aker Solutions was awarded a large[1] framework agreement from Petrobras to provide subsea lifecycle services for Petrobras-operated oil and gas fields offshore Brazil. The agreement has a fixed period of three years and includes an optio …




www.akersolutions.com









__





Baker Hughes Wins Major Contracts from Petrobras for Flexible Pipes Across Five Offshore Fields | Baker Hughes


The Investor Relations website contains information about Baker Hughes's business for stockholders, potential investors, and financial analysts.




investors.bakerhughes.com













Subsea 7 secures subsea equipment supply contract from Petrobras


Petrobras has awarded Subsea 7 a ‘very large’ contract to deliver subsea equipment for the Mero-3 field development offshore Brazil.




www.offshore-technology.com













BNamericas - Halliburton, Schlumberger close to Brazil we...


The Houston-based companies made the best bids in a Petrobras tender related to the Búzios offshore field.




www.bnamericas.com


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522252801577046019


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522085059150426112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522254353507233797

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522173808869785601

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hack-Hook

That Guy said:


> A 50% discount on a Lambo is still out of the reach of the average joe.
> 
> Meaning, cheaper doesn't mean affordable.


honnestly a warhead , a low quality turbo jet engine that can work for 15 minutes , a mono-pulse radar ,and a fuel tank and use a raspberi pi to do the calculation and you got a basic anti ship cruise missile ,

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521920154128592900
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521920156485795840
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521920159006576646
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521920162081001472
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521920164979257344
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521920168103923715


I'm reminded of the movie Charlie Wilson's war


----------



## Ich

dbc said:


> you're not making any sense. Petrobras owns the rights to well, Petrobras may even operate the rig but there can be hundreds of third party service providers on the Petrobras offshore rig. I shared some links to a few contracts awarded by Petrobras to third party service providers in the last 12 months, i encourage you to educate yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Halliburton Company Signed $2.5 Billion Contract for Development of Barracuda and Caratinga Oil Fields Offshore Brazil - Halliburton
> 
> 
> The Investor Relations website contains information about Halliburton's business for stockholders, potential investors, and financial analysts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ir.halliburton.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aker Solutions Secures Subsea Services Framework Agreement With Petrobras
> 
> 
> Aker Solutions was awarded a large[1] framework agreement from Petrobras to provide subsea lifecycle services for Petrobras-operated oil and gas fields offshore Brazil. The agreement has a fixed period of three years and includes an optio …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.akersolutions.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Baker Hughes Wins Major Contracts from Petrobras for Flexible Pipes Across Five Offshore Fields | Baker Hughes
> 
> 
> The Investor Relations website contains information about Baker Hughes's business for stockholders, potential investors, and financial analysts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> investors.bakerhughes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Subsea 7 secures subsea equipment supply contract from Petrobras
> 
> 
> Petrobras has awarded Subsea 7 a ‘very large’ contract to deliver subsea equipment for the Mero-3 field development offshore Brazil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.offshore-technology.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BNamericas - Halliburton, Schlumberger close to Brazil we...
> 
> 
> The Houston-based companies made the best bids in a Petrobras tender related to the Búzios offshore field.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bnamericas.com



Where is your problem? If they are chaeper than a equivalent own solution, then it is normal business.



dbc said:


> yes, the down hole equipment on the rig is provided by whoever wins the drilling contract independent of the rig operator.



So e.g. Halliburton has the drilling contract? Or Petrobas?







Wah? Petrobas is subcontractor of its subcontractors? Wth? Dont use drugs!

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
1 | Like Like:
2


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522251266356875267


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522255097287385088


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522256540073345024


The President of Belarus: The Russian escalation in the region depends on NATO, not Ukraine

The President of Belarus, addressing the West: Russia will not be defeated in Ukraine

@AlArabiya_Brk


----------



## nang2

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522256540073345024


This is probably the most ridiculous excuse. Civilians want to run away from battle fields. The longer range your weapons have, the more capable to hit civilians who just try to get away from you as far as possible.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hack-Hook

nang2 said:


> This is probably the most ridiculous excuse. Civilians want to run away from battle fields. The longer range your weapons have, the more capable to hit civilians who just try to get away from you as far as possible.


exactly how in Libya for protecting civilians they attacked Libyan army when they engaged rebels even if it was in middle of desert 500km away from nearest village

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


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## Ich

LOL @dbc , giving a negativ rating was a really "woke" reaction

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522273756605001733


----------



## nang2

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522273756605001733


Amazing. All 3 crew members survived. Lucky for them.


----------



## RoadAmerica

K_Bin_W said:


> So far Russian missiles have been hitting their targets with pin point accuracy.


🤣


----------



## Paul2

nang2 said:


> Amazing. All 3 crew members survived. Lucky for them.



The tank just chilled in the field in view of enemy arty, which struck from *behind. *The amount of smoke suggests it's Soviet artillery rounds, not tank fire, or ATGMs.

_They had to just start moving._


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522248594027335682


----------



## nang2

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522248594027335682


It seems Putin ain't some crazy bigot as MSM would like to portray.


----------



## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> I think Germany will support but Hungary will veto. Hungary took vaccine from China and now China has it as a laptog.


Hungary can’t veto anything. At most they want to be exempted from the ban. EU allows exemptions.


----------



## The SC

Japan plans to operate suspended nuclear reactors since the "Fukushima disaster"

@AsharqNewsBrk


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522274212014178308


----------



## mmr

zartosht said:


> You must be a zionist or a little kid.
> 
> Because those are the only group of people who are non-chalant about inflation
> 
> Kids are too stupid to understand
> 
> Zionists are too spoiled to understand. For them money comes as easy as crying on media, holohoax shaming the US, german taxpayers to pay for everything needed.
> 
> In the real world, non parasitic countries who actually have to earn their own money. For them sky rocketing food and energy prices are an existential threat to their way of life
> 
> Nobody is laughing about inflation little kid. Its close to 10% in some western countries. With no end in sight to its rise


Lol Zionist every where

Inflation is high so as wages. Real estate and stocks all record high.

Unemployment lowest in 60 years.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522302925422354432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522298801880449030

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

Real irretrievable losses among the personnel of only the military personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (excluding the National Guard, the State Border Service of Ukraine and Teroborona) are about 50,000 killed


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522295299389206533

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## ILC

Paul2 said:


> You say attrition, but they are only loosing relatively low value units.
> 
> As I said, even if they lose two Russian style BTG per month, they can last a really long time. And the longer they last as a coherent force, the better will be their defensive organisation.
> 
> I am equally sure about Russians not being able to replace losses in 100% officer staffed units, as them being easily able to field cannon fodder with AK, and one RPG per squad in large amounts, for a really long time, even without a partial mobilisation.
> 
> So, they can still make a lot of grief even if they loose all of their offensive potential with their current tactic.
> 
> You guys are trivialising the fact that Ukrainians will have to dismantle world's No.2 military. They have to do it on their soil, with home turf advantage, with Russian stretched supply lines, low morale, weak air support, but still f***ing 4-6 field armies worth of bodies to grind through.
> 
> The scale of upcoming losses on both sides will be enormous, unseen by the world since the Korean war.


China is the world's no.2 military.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ILC said:


> China is the world's no.2 military.



China is most powerful military in the world.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The SC

In the event of a uranium embargo from Russia, American nuclear reactors will begin to shut down en masse within the next year. The suspension of power generation at US nuclear power plants will rebound on electricity tariffs.. American nuclear power plants will not be able to work without 3-4% enriched uranium


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522293136067813376

A source in Rosatom: an evaluation of the procedure for refusing to supply Russian enriched uranium to the US nuclear industry is already underway. At the moment, Russia occupies a third of the world market for the supply of these products, and any restrictions will significantly affect electricity tariffs


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522290551655211010

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


----------



## jamal18

Tai Hai Chen said:


> China is most powerful military in the world.


A few years ago, the Chinese C of S gave a talk in which he said that he did not consider the Chinese military to be equal to the US.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jamal18 said:


> A few years ago, the Chinese C of S gave a talk in which he said that he did not consider the Chinese military to be equal to the US.



Sun Tzu. US does not dare invade China.


----------



## The SC

After the Russian Ministry of Defense warned about the revision of measures of passive protection of the US military leadership in Syria, the Pentagon said that the US does not transfer information to Ukraine about the whereabouts of Russian commanders on the battlefield.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522287726925598722

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522286259959484416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522287505466396673


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522272091684413443
It is reported that the work of the Zaporizhzhya TPP (Nuclear Power Plant) has been stopped.
The largest TPP in Ukraine has run out of coal..It is not possible to organize the supply of coal to the station.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522188728218923008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522068877965885440


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522272091684413443
> It is reported that the work of the Zaporizhzhya TPP (Nuclear Power Plant) has been stopped.
> The largest TPP in Ukraine has run out of coal.
> It is not possible to organize the supply of coal to the station.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522188728218923008
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522068877965885440



Why coal for a nuclear power plant?


----------



## LeGenD

Russia Just Lost Its Most Advanced Operational Tank In Ukraine


The first confirmed loss of Russia's most advanced operational tank is another blow to the Russian Army's eroded image.




www.thedrive.com





@The SC 
@_NOBODY_
@kingQamaR 
@RescueRanger 
@iLION12345_1 
@PanzerKiel

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Love Love:
1 | Wow Wow:
2


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## Ich

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Why coal for a nuclear power plant?



If you took coal under high pressure, it will transform into Uran in the long run. Sun has shown already how it works.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

a couple of guys walked into a shelling


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522315626219417601


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

zartosht said:


> *You must be a zionist or a little kid. *
> 
> Because those are the only group of people who are non-chalant about inflation
> 
> Kids are too stupid to understand
> 
> Zionists are too spoiled to understand. For them money comes as easy as crying on media, holohoax shaming the US, german taxpayers to pay for everything needed.
> 
> In the real world, non parasitic countries who actually have to earn their own money. For them sky rocketing food and energy prices are an existential threat to their way of life
> 
> Nobody is laughing about inflation little kid. Its close to 10% in some western countries. With no end in sight to its rise



He is a Bangladeshi guy who is ***-kissing the West. He thinks the Canadian government will strip him from his citizenship if he doesn't make loud noises against Russia. You know the typical "uncle tom" but a Bangladeshi version. 

The below image describes him well

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## The SC

The Russian Defense announces the destruction of a number of American "howitzers" in Ukraine



https://twitter.com/AlArabiya_Brk





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522289794390368257


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

LeGenD said:


> Russia Just Lost Its Most Advanced Operational Tank In Ukraine
> 
> 
> The first confirmed loss of Russia's most advanced operational tank is another blow to the Russian Army's eroded image.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @The SC
> @_NOBODY_
> @kingQamaR
> @RescueRanger
> @iLION12345_1
> @PanzerKiel



You didn't tag me? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522316042558656513

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## LeGenD

Those who were comparing Russian and similar MBT designs to M1A2SEPv3 ???

🤦‍♂️









Egypt reportedly signed contract for 500 T-90MS main battle tanks


Because the U.S. gives Egypt about $1.5B in foreign aid each year (second only to Israel) and the original deal was negotiated to keep Egypt from arming with Russian weapons. The U.S. is selling UAE F-35s, and Saudi Arabia is probably next - it’s difficult to justify selling your most advanced...



defence.pk













Egypt reportedly signed contract for 500 T-90MS main battle tanks


Because the U.S. gives Egypt about $1.5B in foreign aid each year (second only to Israel) and the original deal was negotiated to keep Egypt from arming with Russian weapons. The U.S. is selling UAE F-35s, and Saudi Arabia is probably next - it’s difficult to justify selling your most advanced...



defence.pk













Egypt reportedly signed contract for 500 T-90MS main battle tanks


Because the U.S. gives Egypt about $1.5B in foreign aid each year (second only to Israel) and the original deal was negotiated to keep Egypt from arming with Russian weapons. The U.S. is selling UAE F-35s, and Saudi Arabia is probably next - it’s difficult to justify selling your most advanced...



defence.pk





Just don't.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## Ali_Baba

lol… could not have said it better myself..


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522302626016210944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522298745588789252

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522304460386672644

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## PakFactor

LeGenD said:


> Russia Just Lost Its Most Advanced Operational Tank In Ukraine
> 
> 
> The first confirmed loss of Russia's most advanced operational tank is another blow to the Russian Army's eroded image.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @The SC
> @_NOBODY_
> @kingQamaR
> @RescueRanger
> @iLION12345_1
> @PanzerKiel



I would take any western tank over an eastern designed tank any day.
I even have doubts in regards to VT-4 and other Soviet Era tanks Pak Armed Forces are running.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

PakFactor said:


> I would take any western tank over an eastern designed tank any day.
> I even have doubts in regards to VT-4 and other Soviet Era tanks Pak Armed Forces are running.



Western tanks don't do any better. Turkish Leopard 2 in Syria.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522305231685660672

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1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522296476239548417

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522308632242802694

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522317737539760128

Reactions: Like Like:
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## MajesticPug

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519691554193125379



It'd be nice to buy a piece of these or two. Where can this be ordered online?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522329912346136576


----------



## PakFactor

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Western tanks don't do any better. Turkish Leopard 2 in Syria.








That tank was hit in a very weak area (and to be honest it made no sense to have ammo in that area anyways). But had it been hit on the turret it would've blown off away from the crew, saving them and possibly rendering tank unusable but salvageable.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522279023174463493


----------



## F-22Raptor

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522279023174463493





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522229380231184389

Reactions: Love Love:
2 | Wow Wow:
1


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## MajesticPug

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522296476239548417
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522308632242802694



CNN, ABC, BBC, NYT, Washington Times all refused to report these. If they do, they will face sanctions and administrative (whatever that means) fines from DC. A few Western media arranged interviews with Russian officials got cancelled because White House forbids any Western media interview Russians. Just to keep the freedom of speech going.. you know.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522268132915744769

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522270015894044675

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522313352030076929

Chinese Ambassador to Russia: #China will work to develop military-technical cooperation with #Russia at a higher level and on a larger scale

@khalediskef


----------



## Primus

LeGenD said:


> Those who were comparing Russian and similar MBT designs to M1A2SEPv3 ???
> 
> 🤦‍♂️
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt reportedly signed contract for 500 T-90MS main battle tanks
> 
> 
> Because the U.S. gives Egypt about $1.5B in foreign aid each year (second only to Israel) and the original deal was negotiated to keep Egypt from arming with Russian weapons. The U.S. is selling UAE F-35s, and Saudi Arabia is probably next - it’s difficult to justify selling your most advanced...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt reportedly signed contract for 500 T-90MS main battle tanks
> 
> 
> Because the U.S. gives Egypt about $1.5B in foreign aid each year (second only to Israel) and the original deal was negotiated to keep Egypt from arming with Russian weapons. The U.S. is selling UAE F-35s, and Saudi Arabia is probably next - it’s difficult to justify selling your most advanced...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt reportedly signed contract for 500 T-90MS main battle tanks
> 
> 
> Because the U.S. gives Egypt about $1.5B in foreign aid each year (second only to Israel) and the original deal was negotiated to keep Egypt from arming with Russian weapons. The U.S. is selling UAE F-35s, and Saudi Arabia is probably next - it’s difficult to justify selling your most advanced...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just don't.


Then again, can any tank survive a top attack ATGM?

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## The SC

Nightmarish wake-up..


----------



## zartosht

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522296476239548417
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522308632242802694



Whats really amazing from the Russian side is that they are even taking in injured POWs during live operations. 

alot of militaries would not even capture able bodied live POWs during operations, let alone injured ones. and send medics in to treat them on site to boot... good on the Russians. answering western savagery and war crimes with compassion...

Tells you all you really need to know about the moral standards of "the west" vs the russians

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

U.S. intel helped Ukraine sink Russian flagship Moskva, officials say​
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/na...ssian-flagship-moskva-officials-say-rcna27559


----------



## kingQamaR

LeGenD said:


> Russia Just Lost Its Most Advanced Operational Tank In Ukraine
> 
> 
> The first confirmed loss of Russia's most advanced operational tank is another blow to the Russian Army's eroded image.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @The SC
> @_NOBODY_
> @kingQamaR
> @RescueRanger
> @iLION12345_1
> @PanzerKiel



bet India is having buyer's remorse lol after watching these videos. I wouldn't buy any Russian equipment. It may be cheaper and easy to maintain but ultimately it's easily destroyed and therefore useless. It looked as if the turret did not fly away like on earlier Russian tanks, so that's a significant improvement which will guarantee the safety of those nearby lol



Huffal said:


> Then again, can any tank survive a top attack ATGM?



RPG's NBD but doubt any western tanks will hold up against top attack ATGM's where armor is the thinnest.

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## Ich

Huffal said:


> Then again, can any tank survive a top attack ATGM?



Sounds like the ww2 battle ships with wooden deck.I wonder why there is no hard kill projectil APS on the tanks in this Ukraine-Russia war which protect against such top attacks.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522315922043805699

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522311530238390274

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522184431422873600

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522172964569034755

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522284422002880513

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## MajesticPug

PakFactor said:


> I would take any western tank over an eastern designed tank any day.
> I even have doubts in regards to VT-4 and other Soviet Era tanks Pak Armed Forces are running.



Ignorant. Any type of tanks dives into the real battle will see losses. The same can be said about jets or any hardware. It's the overall kill:loss ratio compared to opponent's tanks that matters.

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## MajesticPug

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Sun Tzu. US does not dare invade China.



The talk of which is no. 1 or 2 or 3 is silly. The outcome of any battle or war depends on timing, advantages or disadvantages of location, and the participants' unity.. so said the Chinese military strategists that include Sun Tzu.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522332934572716032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522332963739824128


----------



## LeGenD

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Western tanks don't do any better. Turkish Leopard 2 in Syria.



This is much older Leopard 2A4 variant.

*1. *The *baseline* armor protection levels of Leopard 2A4 are lower than that of the M1A1HA variant.

*2. *A part of the ammo is stored in the front of Leopard 2A4 beneath its turret. It looks like this part of a unit was breached in a battle as pointed out by member @PakFactor.

*3. *Turkish forces did not apply ERA tiles on Leopard 2A4 to cover its vulnerable spaces for operations in Syria.

ISIS elements might have learned about such vulnerabilities. They had obtained/seized stockpiles of Russian Kornet class ATGMs in Syria.

Losses are also magnified for shock value and effects on the web. Turkish forces dispatched a total of 30 Leopard 2A4 for a military operation in Syria and lost 10 of them in the process in 2016. Other units survived and returned.

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## MajesticPug

Viet said:


> From the news, Germany supports Finland, Sweden to join the NATO.
> Ukraine wants Germany as protector. So do all Eastern European countries. And do western countries. Except France.
> All want to draw down the iron curtain to Russia.
> Interesting, all want close tie to Germany. All want Germany as leading nation. Remarkable considering the atrocities Germany committed in the WWII.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ZEIT ONLINE | Lesen Sie zeit.de mit Werbung oder im PUR-Abo. Sie haben die Wahl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.zeit.de



Germany supports what? The US gave orders and Germany obeyed. End of story.

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## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522316575650590721

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504920699307188229


----------



## CAPRICORN-88



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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522186537571659776

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Paul2

PakFactor said:


> I would take any western tank over an eastern designed tank any day.
> I even have doubts in regards to VT-4 and other Soviet Era tanks Pak Armed Forces are running.



Top attack munitions negate any tank today, plainly and simply.

Even if you have half a meter of ceramics in your front armour, it make zero difference.


----------



## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522305231685660672



Ukrainian offensive is also not going anywhere either. Russia keeps forcing Ukrainians into attrition warfare, and wasting its cohesion.

It's no big secret now that Ukraine is preparing 2 divisions worth of reserves from territorials, captured/repaired armour, and etc in the East. It will not be the strongest force.

Big question is where these 2 divisions will go.

Ukraine needs following regarding its own force:

Rotate forces on most stressed directions
Continue mobilisation to grow its regular force
Integrate irregulars with the military on operational level
Create at least 1 field army worth of strategic reserve
Field units dedicated to use of NATO gear

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## Paul2

Huffal said:


> Then again, can any tank survive a top attack ATGM?



Not a single tank today. Only APS can save a tank from top attack.

That why I call any new tank procurement project a write off today if no APS is required.

Even front attack APS equipped tanks will likely get a stop on purchase.

The whole tank, and military hardware industry will pause for a few years until offers are readjusted, and RnD will come with something countering things which surfaced during this war.

Anti-top-attack APS, crew survivability solutions, field switchable multi-fuel engines, integration with drones, new thermals, new comms, more anti-mine, anti-infantry/anti-bunker shells, cross-terrain performance

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## CAPRICORN-88



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## RoadAmerica

Vergennes said:


> You lot forgot the Russian central bank increased its key rates to 20% and invested massively to prevent the collapse of the ruble but as a consequence of destroying the economic growth... Forecasts predict a 10% recession for Russia in 2022.... meanwhile sanctions will take effect on the Russian economy and soon with gas and oil embargo it's going to get funny.


Exactly, I’ve tried explaining this before as well but this lot seems to be quite dense

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522378218396798977

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522377748525715456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522376508026720257


----------



## LeGenD

Huffal said:


> Then again, can any tank survive a top attack ATGM?



M1A2CSEPv3 is packing a new generation of baseline armor:

_"Survivability against multiple threats by incorporating NEA, a new underbody IED kit, and other vulnerability reduction measures to reduce the tank’s vulnerability to IEDs. These measures include redesigned crew seating, additional floor stiffeners, hardware to provide lower limb protection, and changes in the material and dimensions of internal structural supports." _- DOTE

The above in combination with Trophy APS:






- should be good enough.

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## kingQamaR

Javelin is passive, that means it emits nothing. It can only be detected after launch. But even then, most Russian tanks can’t see them comingYes, Russia has been advertising active-protection systems for years, but these are just marketing ploys, they’re actually beyond Russia’s industrial & technological capability to be made combat-ready.
What they advertise:


----------



## Paul2

I predict, Ukraine will need to chew through 2-3 field armies to make Russia consider withdrawal just because they be beyond hopeless to achieve anything.

Russian armies are tiny, but it's still 20k-30k worth of bodies, which is still more than the body count up to now.

August/September is a likely date if Russia will not go for the last ditch attempt offensive (in that case, they will expire way faster.)

Really, the worst thing Russia can do to Ukrainians now is to play defence on its own, in combination with planned attrition.

Ukraine is all, but certain has lost the time window when it could've prevented Russians from entrenching with quick perpendicular pushes.


----------



## Shawnee

Paul2 said:


> Top attack munitions negate any tank today, plainly and simply.
> 
> Even if you have half a meter of ceramics in your front armour, it make zero difference.


SKAPS
HKAPS


----------



## MajesticPug

CAPRICORN-88 said:


>



US is the ultimate biggest winner and Europe the loser. Funny Europeans still believe they have a say over how things go in Europe, their trades, their money, or their future.

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## CAPRICORN-88

MajesticPug said:


> US is the ultimate biggest winner and Europe the loser. Funny Europeans still believe they have a say over how things go in Europe, their trades, their money, or their future.


Turkey just reported a 70% inflation in April 2022.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522395505350922241


----------



## thetutle

The SC said:


> The possibilities of a comprehensive war are now greater than ever, and no one will escape from it, whith the first of them are those who are eager to ignite it now.


I would choose nuclear war and global destruction over a world ruled over and dominated by russia. I am sure Most western generals agree. But there will be no need for that. Russia will be defeated right here in Ukraine it seems.


----------



## thetutle

Tai Hai Chen said:


> What difference would that make? Artillery didn't make much impact in WW1 despite millions of rounds were fired.


It will make little difference, The Russians have nothing to worry about when it comes to NATO arms shipments


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> It will make little difference, The Russians have nothing to worry about when it comes to NATO arms shipments



Due to fuel shortage, only a small number of howitzers can be used at any given time. And that makes them vulnerable to Russian invaders attack choppers which attack artillery logistics trucks.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522070021437935616

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522241086592331776


----------



## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> You lot forgot the Russian central bank increased its key rates to 20% and invested massively to prevent the collapse of the ruble but as a consequence of destroying the economic growth... Forecasts predict a 10% recession for Russia in 2022.... meanwhile sanctions will take effect on the Russian economy and soon with gas and oil embargo it's going to get funny.


OR, try go and buy some USD with your rubbles, in russia or anywhere and see what the exchange rate is.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> I would choose nuclear war and global destruction over a world ruled over and dominated by russia. I am sure Most western generals agree. But there will be no need for that. Russia will be defeated right here in Ukraine it seems.



Not gonna happen. Not even Napoleon and Hitler can beat Russia let alone Ukraine.

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## Oldman1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521909679789645824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522235879644962817

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522224379798736899

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522169593468436480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522152909684850688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522153648628842496
https://twitter.com/Blue_Sauron/status/1521909872270450689

https://twitter.com/Blue_Sauron/status/1521847141450330112

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## Apollon

Trango Towers said:


> But bigger than your country..please stop waffling



I dont claim Greece to be a worldpower.

Russia is a mini economy. Former german chancellor Helmut schmidt called it "Botswana with nuclear weapons". And thats what it is, now even more than before. Its also no partnership with China. Chimas economy is 11 times more powerful than Russia. Thats not a partnership, Russia is simply a little vasall and since it hasno alternative left, is basicly a chinese province.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> I dont claim Greece to be a worldpower.
> 
> Russia is a mini economy. Former german chancellor Helmut schmidt called it "Botswana with nuclear weapons". And thats what it is, now even more than before. Its also no partnership with China. Chimas economy is 11 times more powerful than Russia. Thats not a partnership, Russia is simply a little vasall and since it hasno alternative left, is basicly a chinese province.



Economy does not matter. Population matters. China is greatest country because of most people.

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## The SC

thetutle said:


> I would choose nuclear war and global destruction over a world ruled over and dominated by russia. I am sure Most western generals agree. But there will be no need for that. Russia will be defeated right here in Ukraine it seems.


That is the dream of those generals .. but just a wet dream....

Russia does not want to rule the world.. neither do China or any other big country .. but they can't accept being dictated their own policies and the way of their lives.. mash that, swallow it and try to digest it.. HaHaHa!

Mind you..I'm American to the core.. but very fair in my assessments..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521210809434660865

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## Apollon

serenity said:


> What's stopping any power from taking over Russia? Because they have a strong military unlike what you said about no functional military. Russia is using only a portion of its force in this war and Russia has not yet mobilized. At least this is according to Russia itself and most international estimates of it. Russia also has many thousands of nuclear weapons in case you forgotten. No power dares to touch Russia's actual land to try and take anything from them. Not China, not USA, not anyone or any alliance.
> 
> Russia is literally Mackinder's heartland. Eastern Europe is Mackinder's pivot areas.
> 
> Russia's natural material wealth is many times larger than Spain's economy. While Russia's total nominal economy is small but if we account for its entire known reserves of natural wealth, it is already probably equal or exceeding Europe since raw material and commodities will only ever become relatively more expensive until science can create useful valuable things from less useful e.g. from lead to gold basically. Until then, Russia's true power even if we ignore size and military, is very strong. They have nukes to protect their interests and their ownership of their land.



Russia has lower life expecency than Bangladesh. Ist extreme poor, has no infrastructure. It also has no cultural impact and no workforce. It faces biggest decline in world population.


My guess is in 10 years wont be a russia anymore. We talk about decolonisation and its utter time to free the various siberian people from moscow imperialism.


How this can be achieved? By weaken Russia permanently. The people see how russia fails and struggles in Ukraine. They ask themself: if ukrainians can fight for freedom, we can do too... 


The collapsing economy and mass exodus of smart young people does the rest.



Believe it or not, putinism is in a dead end.



MajesticPug said:


> US is the ultimate biggest winner and Europe the loser. Funny Europeans still believe they have a say over how things go in Europe, their trades, their money, or their future.



Russia is the enemy of a free europe. Its that simple. Better ro crush putinism now in ukraine then later in France

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## thetutle

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Sun Tzu. US does not dare invade China.


China does not dare invade Monte Carlo.

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## The SC

Russia: The Kremlin denies President Vladimir Putin's apology to Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett for Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov's statements about Hitler's Judaism

@khalediskef




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522311724824600576


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> China does not dare invade Monte Carlo.



Wanna bet?



The SC said:


> Russia: The Kremlin denies President Vladimir Putin's apology to Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett for Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov's statements about Hitler's Judaism
> 
> @khalediskef
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522311724824600576



Because it is true. Hitler is part Jew. Hell, just about every person today is part Jew if you go back far enough.

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## thetutle

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Not gonna happen. Not even Napoleon and Hitler can beat Russia let alone Ukraine.


It doesn't matter if Ukraine cant beat russia. All it has to do is weaken it and exhaust it to the point russia is poor and ineffective. Its going better than I had predicted.

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## Viet

MajesticPug said:


> Germany supports what? The US gave orders and Germany obeyed. End of story.


If you can feel good then believe to your own propaganda.

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## thetutle

The SC said:


> Russia does not want to rule the world.. neither do China or any other big country ..


And we'll make sure they dont.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> And we'll make sure they dont.



It is America which attempts to unify the entire human race under a single hegemony. That is not acceptable to other powers such as China and Russia.



thetutle said:


> It doesn't matter if Ukraine cant beat russia. All it has to do is weaken it and exhaust it to the point russia is poor and ineffective. Its going better than I had predicted.



Perhaps. But that would require huge investment. It would require 1,000 F-16, 5,000 M1A2, 10,000 M777, 1,000 Patriot PAC 3, 50 Arleigh Burke to fight Russia in war in Ukraine.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522240254840823809

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522250312777670657


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522408695711236098

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522400904351477760


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Shocker For India — UK Report Blames Its Asian Ally For ‘Smuggling’ Defense Components To Russia For Ukraine War​By
Ashish Dangwal
-
May 4, 2022

*Apprehensions that Russia’s modern weaponry relies significantly on parts produced in the UK and other western countries have prompted the British government to initiate a probe into any “credible allegations” that its weapons embargo on Russia has been jeopardized.*

According to The Daily Telegraph, a Whitehall investigation is underway following a report by the Royal United Services Institute think tank that underlined the fact that Russian weaponry employed in Ukraine is dependent on imports of sophisticated electronics.

As experts combed through Russian forces’ abandoned hardware in Ukraine, they reportedly discovered high-tech UK parts for jamming devices and military radios.

Experts pointed to the usage of high-frequency transistors made in the UK in Russia’s Borisoglebsk-2 jamming system as an example. The system also had components made in the US, Germany, South Korea, Taiwan, and the Netherlands.

Researchers from the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI) military think tank discovered that the Kremlin acquires Western components through front companies, intermediaries, and blackmail. Manufacturers appear to have no idea where their products eventually end up.

Following Russia’s annexation of Crimea in 2014, the UK imposed a weapons embargo on the country. There were indications that certain export licenses were still being issued.

However, after the invasion of Ukraine, the UK also barred the direct transfer to Russia of dual-use components, which can be used for either civilian or military purposes.


The Rusi report, titled ‘Operation Z: The Death Throes of an Imperial Delusion,’ did not specify when the components in question were likely to have been exported. Also, there was no indication that the producers had committed any wrongdoing.

However, it sparked concerns that parts manufactured in the United Kingdom could still end up in Russia.

It also noted that as a result of Western economic sanctions, Moscow would grow more reliant on component smuggling to keep its aircraft, missiles, and other high-tech weapons operational.

The Department for International Trade in the United Kingdom is now looking into ways to prevent British-made parts from being used by Russia’s war machine.

A government spokesperson said, “We have introduced the largest and most severe economic sanctions that Russia has ever faced, to help cripple Putin’s war machine, including by sanctioning key defense sector organizations and banning the export of critical technologies.

The UK has one of the most robust and transparent export-control regimes in the world. We take all credible allegations of breaches of export control seriously and we will take further action if appropriate.”





File Image: Putin and Modi

The RUSI research also suggested that Russia relies on Western electronics to manufacture 9M727 cruise missiles, Kh-101 cruise missiles, 9M949 guided 300-mm rockets, TOR-M2 air-defense systems, and Aqueduct radios, this was reported by EurAsian Times.


----------



## scimitar19

The SC said:


> Nightmarish wake-up..


Please fellow brethren! Lets have a minute of silence for this dude that is about to develop a potential non combat PTSD syndrome.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

So what does it means?

Why the blame game so early?

Is UK acknowledging that Ukraine is losing the war?

So the US and NATO must have discussed about it. They are pointing the finger at India. 

And UK is now blaming India and Modi offers his presence at 10, Downing Street as the perfect opportunity.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522428435238248448

Reactions: Like Like:
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## kingQamaR

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Shocker For India — UK Report Blames Its Asian Ally For ‘Smuggling’ Defense Components To Russia For Ukraine War​By
> Ashish Dangwal
> -
> May 4, 2022
> 
> *Apprehensions that Russia’s modern weaponry relies significantly on parts produced in the UK and other western countries have prompted the British government to initiate a probe into any “credible allegations” that its weapons embargo on Russia has been jeopardized.*
> 
> According to The Daily Telegraph, a Whitehall investigation is underway following a report by the Royal United Services Institute think tank that underlined the fact that Russian weaponry employed in Ukraine is dependent on imports of sophisticated electronics.
> 
> As experts combed through Russian forces’ abandoned hardware in Ukraine, they reportedly discovered high-tech UK parts for jamming devices and military radios.
> 
> Experts pointed to the usage of high-frequency transistors made in the UK in Russia’s Borisoglebsk-2 jamming system as an example. The system also had components made in the US, Germany, South Korea, Taiwan, and the Netherlands.
> 
> Researchers from the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI) military think tank discovered that the Kremlin acquires Western components through front companies, intermediaries, and blackmail. Manufacturers appear to have no idea where their products eventually end up.
> 
> Following Russia’s annexation of Crimea in 2014, the UK imposed a weapons embargo on the country. There were indications that certain export licenses were still being issued.
> 
> However, after the invasion of Ukraine, the UK also barred the direct transfer to Russia of dual-use components, which can be used for either civilian or military purposes.
> 
> 
> The Rusi report, titled ‘Operation Z: The Death Throes of an Imperial Delusion,’ did not specify when the components in question were likely to have been exported. Also, there was no indication that the producers had committed any wrongdoing.
> 
> However, it sparked concerns that parts manufactured in the United Kingdom could still end up in Russia.
> 
> It also noted that as a result of Western economic sanctions, Moscow would grow more reliant on component smuggling to keep its aircraft, missiles, and other high-tech weapons operational.
> 
> The Department for International Trade in the United Kingdom is now looking into ways to prevent British-made parts from being used by Russia’s war machine.
> 
> A government spokesperson said, “We have introduced the largest and most severe economic sanctions that Russia has ever faced, to help cripple Putin’s war machine, including by sanctioning key defense sector organizations and banning the export of critical technologies.
> 
> The UK has one of the most robust and transparent export-control regimes in the world. We take all credible allegations of breaches of export control seriously and we will take further action if appropriate.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> File Image: Putin and Modi
> 
> The RUSI research also suggested that Russia relies on Western electronics to manufacture 9M727 cruise missiles, Kh-101 cruise missiles, 9M949 guided 300-mm rockets, TOR-M2 air-defense systems, and Aqueduct radios, this was reported by EurAsian Times.




Russia supplies the majority of India’s weapons, and is a major trading partner. The last thing you want is your weapon’s supplier cutting off your source of spare parts and upgrades


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

MajesticPug said:


> Not propaganda. We give you the order, you follow. No but's, if's, or waitz... Want to get your *** kicked?
> 
> 
> You can pretend you can make decision on your own. We do let you do that to a certain degree so it looks good on us too. But when it's NATO matter, geopolitical matter, you just follow. Get it?


True.

Shut down Nordstream 2, US commanded and indeed Germany obediencely adhered to it.

Joe Biden declared Nordstream 2 as officially dead. How can Joe Biden do that? He is only the President of the US and not Chancellor of Germany.


----------



## kingQamaR

What stop ? Not a cubic inch of gas went through North Stream 2. As to the others: Yamal and North Stream 1, the gas is flowing normally, much to the dismay of Russian trolls.


----------



## Clutch

US intel helped Ukraine sink massive Russian warship​By Jesse O’Neill

May 5, 2022 | 9:48pm





Ukrainian forces were able to sink Russian missile cruiser Moskva thanks to US intelligence, according to an official.Twitter/east2west news
US intelligence played a pivotal role in Ukraine’s attack on a flagship Russian warship last month, an American official said Thursday.

Ukraine targeted and sank the Russian missile cruiser Moskva on April 14 with its own anti-ship missiles after the US provided “a range of intelligence” that included the location of the ship in the Black Sea, the official said on the condition of anonymity.

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## RescueRanger

LeGenD said:


> Russia Just Lost Its Most Advanced Operational Tank In Ukraine
> 
> 
> The first confirmed loss of Russia's most advanced operational tank is another blow to the Russian Army's eroded image.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @The SC
> @_NOBODY_
> @kingQamaR
> @RescueRanger
> @iLION12345_1
> @PanzerKiel


This is great news but I was led to believe that the t-14 is Russia’s most advanced tank? Perhaps I am misinformed.

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## hadi1990

idont know why russians are over complicating the azovzstol region, shelling for a year will not solve that, they can capture a building and dig to reach the ventilation of the planet, pour any thing from benzene to diesel to gas and give it a match!!

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## MajesticPug

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> True.
> 
> Shut down Nordstream 2, US commanded and indeed Germany obediencely adhered to it.
> 
> Joe Biden declared Nordstream as officially dead. What Joe Biden did that? But he is only the Ptesident of the US and not Chancellor of Germany.


Yup. It doesn't matter there's not a cent US has put into building the Nordstream. US President speaks, German Chancellor, President, Ministers, Assembly must say "Yes Sir". Kind of insulting but it's TRUE.

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## CAPRICORN-88

MajesticPug said:


> Yup. It doesn't matter there's not a cent US has put into building the Nordstream. US President speaks, German Chancellor, President, Ministers, Assembly must say "Yes Sir". Kind of insulting but it's TRUE.


Even if Germany decided to revive the project today, it is already too late. 

Gasprom have already allocated half of the gas initially reserved for Nordstream 2 to North West region of Russia.


----------



## Clutch

PakFactor said:


> I would take any western tank over an eastern designed tank any day.
> I even have doubts in regards to VT-4 and other Soviet Era tanks Pak Armed Forces are running.



Pak Army is for show only. It's real purpose is real estate and letter courrier services.

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## kingQamaR

RescueRanger said:


> This is great news but I was led to believe that the t-14 is Russia’s most advanced tank? Perhaps I am misinformed.



At last count there were MAYBE 20 T-14’s in service. Serial production has been slow and deliveries of the proposed (up to 100) tanks are scheduled to start “some time this year (2022)”. I doubt very seriously that the Russian Army will try to battle test what few of these they have in service. The Ukraine invasion doesn’t seem to be going as well as expected for them as they’d hoped. Russian troops are walking away from a lot of vehicles and equipment and Russia can’t afford to have one of these things captured

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## CAPRICORN-88

These seizures are illegal under International Law by UN. 

These assets don't belongs to Russia but to the individuals. Only a rogue nation will do that.

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## Apollon

MajesticPug said:


> Yup. It doesn't matter there's not a cent US has put into building the Nordstream. US President speaks, German Chancellor, President, Ministers, Assembly must say "Yes Sir". Kind of insulting but it's TRUE.



No its bullshit. Nordstream 2 is best example for that Germany resisted for years to stop NS 2. 


Only whrn Russia became existential danger for Germany, this changed.

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## MajesticPug

Viet said:


> Whatever makes you feel better. Just weird, I hear the west or east Germany included make up of slaves to the US. The US itself is slave to Jews. Zelenskki is the master of all Jews. Zelenskki himself is a slave to the West (or East). We run in circle.



Jews can influence the US policies a lot but US is not a slave to Jews. US is a slave to military-industrial-financial complex nevertheless. Zelenski is not the master of the Jews. He has Jews root but still a puppet of the US government. The poor bastards are the Ukrainians who were sold in bulk by Zelenski to the military-industrial-financial complex of the United States of Sanctions. It's just sad the Ukrainians are fighting gallantly just for the MIF complex that's not even their country's.


----------



## Piotr

MajesticPug said:


> US is the ultimate biggest winner and Europe the loser. Funny Europeans still believe they have a say over how things go in Europe, their trades, their money, or their future.



The EU is first and foremost economic competitor to the USA.
USA want to loot or even destroy the EU.

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## MajesticPug

Apollon said:


> No its bullshit. Nordstream 2 is best example for that Germany resisted for years to stop NS 2.
> 
> Only whrn Russia became existential danger for Germany, this changed.


Russia is not an existential danger to Germany. Actually the US is -- to Germany's interests. But Germans have no guts to say no and no foot to stand on. Get used to it. Europe after the Ukraine war will descend further into the pit. Soon NATO, thus Germany and France, will be dragged into the idealogy trap to fight China. It's sad that Europeans still feel like they're the nobility when in fact their world ended after WWII. They're just still trying to hang on to the notion that their ideals matter. LOL.. Be obedient and they can still enjoy good food. Or they will be stripped off their clothes and hung dried.

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## Apollon

MajesticPug said:


> Russia is not an existential danger to Germany. Actually the US is -- to Germany's interests. But Germans have no guts to say no and no foot to stand on. Get used to it. Europe after the Ukraine war will descend further into the pit. Soon NATO, thus Germany and France, will be dragged into the idealogy trap to fight China. It's sad that Europeans still feel like they're the nobility when in fact their world ended after WWII. They're just still trying to hang on to the notion that their ideals matter. LOL.. Be obedient and they can still enjoy good food. Or they will be stripped off their clothes and hung dried.



Russia threatens entire Europe including Germany. Is led by a facist maniac who dreams about eurasian empire. 


Its not about ideals. Its about crushing an enemy

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## MajesticPug

Piotr said:


> The EU is first and foremost competitor to the USA.
> USA want to loot or even destroy the EU.
> 
> View attachment 841291



LOL.. grow up, dude. Europe matters only before WWII. The strongest European nation Germany obeyed the American order to shut down Nord Stream II. The rest like Poland and Romania just wait for your scraps and call to arms when Uncle needs your blood shed for the '_universal_' ideaology established by the Uncle.


----------



## Apollon

Piotr said:


> The EU is first and foremost economic competitor to the USA.
> USA want to loot or even destroy the EU.
> 
> View attachment 841291



Laughable and main reason why asiatic Propaganda never works.



MajesticPug said:


> LOL.. grow up, dude. Europe matters only before WWII. The strongest European nation Germany obeyed the American order to shut down Nord Stream II. The rest like Poland and Romania just wait for your scraps and call to arms when Uncle needs your blood shed for the '_universal_' ideaology established by the Uncle.



Why would it be German interest to build a pipeline to putin who dreams about conquering Germany

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## Apollon

MajesticPug said:


> Think or imagine whatever you like. Imagination is free. But just obey when it's geopolitics and trades and whatever Uncle says you must follow. I feel sorry for you but there's nothing Europe can do. Just obey and you'll still get some chumps.



Why did Germany not follow since 2012 and pushed pipeline through with full force? Angering Trump up to heartattack?


How you explain that?

And why you believe Russias genocidal war in Ukraine should be in german interest?


Btw you dont need to feel sorry. Our living standards are higher than yours in evry field.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522458616913145857

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## WotTen

Huffal said:


> Then again, can any tank survive a top attack ATGM?



Why can't they just bolt another steel plate on top where needed?

Sure it'll make the tank a bit heavier but, if that's the biggest threat out there, you adapt.

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## Vergennes

Another russian warship hit ?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522508132957802497

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## Primus

WotTen said:


> Why can't they just bolt another steel plate on top where needed?
> 
> Sure it'll make the tank a bit heavier but, if that's the biggest threat out there, you adapt.


Because the russians did that and it still didnt work


----------



## Vergennes

lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522522998888087552

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## Vergennes

Russian units ambushed


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522526047371239425

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## kingQamaR

WotTen said:


> Why can't they just bolt another steel plate on top where needed?
> 
> Sure it'll make the tank a bit heavier but, if that's the biggest threat out there, you adapt.



Thecage armour over the top of the turret has no effect whatsoever against Javelin or NLAW ( or StugaP). They stupidly put it there, thinking that cage or bar armour increases the stand-off of the warhead, and thus reduces its effect. It doesn’t.They then tried sandbags on the tips of the cages; bad luck, that doesn’t work either


----------



## Corax

Viet said:


> The May 9 is approaching. Putin points to officially declare war on Ukraine and call all men to the weapons.
> 
> He will put Russia into the state of war.
> Every man or women that refuses hid orders will be put into gulags.



Calm down, this isn't the USSR of the 1930s. Never thought I'd see the day when a Vietnamese kisses the *** of the Americans and NATO.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522509777053618176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522531962304536587

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> Another russian warship hit ?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522508132957802497




Russia’s _Admiral Makarov_ warship has been hit by Ukrainian missiles and burst into flames, according to Ukrainian officials.

The frigate would be Russia’s latest naval loss in a troubled campaign, coming after reports that US intelligence helped Ukraine locate and sink the Russian warship Moskva weeks ago.









Russian frigate Admiral Makarov ‘on fire after being hit by Ukrainian missile’


Ship was sailing near Snake Island when hit, say reports




www.independent.co.uk






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522509777053618176

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522514104535162880

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## LeGenD

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Not gonna happen. Not even Napoleon and Hitler can beat Russia let alone Ukraine.



You need to distinguish dynamics of "offensive conflicts" from "defensive conflicts." 

Napolean campaign = "defensive conflict" for then Russian hemisphere.

Hitler campaign = "defensive conflict" for then USSR.

Mongols showed that Russian hemisphere can be overrun and Russians can be defeated in their home-turf.

Hitler was up against both US-led forces in the West and the USSR in the East - the odds were not in his favor since 1942. 

Ukraine campaign = "offensive conflict" for modern Russia and its forces can be defeated there. USSR was defeated in Afghanistan for example.

Modern Russia have significant nuclear warfare capability and there is no need to invade its mainland due to obvious reasons. Leap in technologies might provide an opening at some point in the future but Russian - Western relationship dynamics can also change over time. Time will tell.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522529926272139266

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522520852415541248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522518376534675456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522475355625320448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522474032452358144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522469846864199681


Apollon said:


> Why would it be German interest to build a pipeline to putin who dreams about conquering Germany



You are paranoid and need psychiatrist help ASAP.



Apollon said:


> Russia threatens entire Europe including Germany. Is led by a facist maniac who dreams about eurasian empire.
> 
> 
> Its not about ideals. Its about crushing an enemy



You watch way too much Hollywood.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522466794715238400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522471766693662720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522472246559723520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522501536903057409

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522465360565342208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522450052622348288


----------



## LeGenD

Clutch said:


> US intel helped Ukraine sink massive Russian warship​By Jesse O’Neill
> 
> May 5, 2022 | 9:48pm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian forces were able to sink Russian missile cruiser Moskva thanks to US intelligence, according to an official.Twitter/east2west news
> US intelligence played a pivotal role in Ukraine’s attack on a flagship Russian warship last month, an American official said Thursday.
> 
> Ukraine targeted and sank the Russian missile cruiser Moskva on April 14 with its own anti-ship missiles after the US provided “a range of intelligence” that included the location of the ship in the Black Sea, the official said on the condition of anonymity.



This is true.

Ukrainians are brave and talented people who can learn and adapt to methods of warfare in less-than-expected time-spans but they were not prepared to fight Russia on their own. They began to improve their defenses after Russia annexed Crimea in 2014 but they were still taking Russia lightly.

Elon Musk have made it possible for Ukraine to subvert impact of Russian cyber warfare capabilities by providing access to his very impressive Starlink cyber network and US/NATO have provided valuable INTEL to Ukrainian forces to deliver painful blows to Russian forces when possible. Russia does not have an effective counter to this intervention.

Poor Sergei Lavrov have a point in this case.

There are a lot of lessons to learn from this conflict.

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## beast89

Corax said:


> Calm down, this isn't the USSR of the 1930s. Never thought I'd see the day when a Vietnamese kisses the *** of the Americans and NATO.



Well, there were vietnamese catholics who killed their brethren and sided with USA

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## Apollon

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522529926272139266
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522520852415541248
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522518376534675456
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522475355625320448
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522474032452358144
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522469846864199681
> 
> 
> You are paranoid and need psychiatrist help ASAP.
> 
> 
> 
> You watch way too much Hollywood.



Nothing to do with Hollywood. After Ukraine Baltics and Poland would be next. Tyrants are not stopped with kindness and appeasement. Its best for Europe to cripple Russia as much as possible


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> Nothing to do with Hollywood. After Ukraine Baltics and Poland would be next. Tyrants are not stopped with kindness and appeasement. Its best for Europe to cripple Russia as much as possible



You are paranoid. USSR never annexed eastern Europe. It is soft power only, just like the US, no official annexation but only soft power. You watch too much Hollywood.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522554774662660097
The explosive charge is missing so this was likely a successfull attack.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522351053274062849


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Btw Russia is no power. Economy weaker than spain and a weak military.



You think along Capitalist lines. What if Russia and the world have a modular, device-level electricity source that will eliminate or drastically minimize oil and gas production ? What if Russia bans all personal vehicles ( cars and two-wheelers ) and remakes intra-city and inter-city transportation skybuses and skytaxis by using airships and provides for police, fire service etc vehicles using the cyclocar concept ? What if Russia gets its computer produced internally to some extent and in China using non-silicon or non-fully-silicon materials and different computing paradigms ? What if Russia adopts a progressive socio-economic system, better than its USSR times ?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522381186957512704

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## BHAN85

Here in Europe states are always crying over the dangerous Russia cyberwarfare capabilities.

But Zelensky is making videocalls and posting instagram everyday and Russia didnt be able to capture him.

It would be a great prize a parade of Zelensky head 9th May. But they can't.


----------



## thetutle

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Perhaps. But that would require huge investment. It would require 1,000 F-16, 5,000 M1A2, 10,000 M777, 1,000 Patriot PAC 3, 50 Arleigh Burke to fight Russia in war in Ukraine.


Russia is already being fought in Ukraine. if you haven't noticed.


----------



## Viet

Russia will not use nuclear weapons in Ukraine because its a special military operation, not war. Says Alexei Saizew, the spokesman of Russia foreign ministry.

Puh!!!

The world is one step back from the brink.

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## khansaheeb

Viet said:


> Russia will not use nuclear weapons in Ukraine because its a special military operation, not war. Says Alexei Saizew, the spokesman of Russia foreign ministry.
> 
> Puh!!!
> 
> The world is one step back from the brink.


It's just a smart way of weakening Ukraine , they can't have a nation that can challenge the colonial euro leaders of France and UK. Ukraine will be in debt for generations forever paying the war costs.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

thetutle said:


> Russia is already being fought in Ukraine. if you haven't noticed.



With the amount of western hardware delivered it makes no difference. They need to 100 times that to make a small impact, 1,000 times that to make a moderate impact, 10,000 times that to beat Russia out of Ukraine.


----------



## Vergennes

BHAN85 said:


> Here in Europe states are always crying over the dangerous Russia cyberwarfare capabilities.
> 
> But Zelensky is making videocalls and posting instagram everyday and Russia didnt be able to capture him.
> 
> It would be a great prize a parade of Zelensky head 9th May. But they can't.



Starlink and Elon are shitting on the russians.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522532900947869696

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522579101718089731

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522581417405956096


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522567718599286784
The Admiral Makarov has been hit

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522592378254610433


----------



## thetutle

Piotr said:


> The EU is first and foremost economic competitor to the USA.
> USA want to loot or even destroy the EU.
> 
> View attachment 841291


LOL, I would say europe has given more refugees to the US than the US has sent to europe.



WotTen said:


> Actually, it is true. The EU was formed before China or Japan had become economic powers. The USSR was never an economic power. The only global economic giant was the USA.



In the early years it had bigger GDP than USA. Please research some facts before misinforming everyone here.


----------



## thetutle

kingQamaR said:


> Thecage armour over the top of the turret has no effect whatsoever against Javelin or NLAW ( or StugaP). They stupidly put it there, thinking that cage or bar armour increases the stand-off of the warhead, and thus reduces its effect. It doesn’t.They then tried sandbags on the tips of the cages; bad luck, that doesn’t work either


Please dot discourage the use of emotional support armour



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522531962304536587


Something tells me America has better resolution pictures than this.


----------



## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522567718599286784
> The Admiral Makarov has been hit


Seems like there are a lot of victories for Putin before May 9th


----------



## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522567718599286784
> The Admiral Makarov has been hit



Isn't this the same type of frigate used by the injians?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

arms captured by Russian invaders












Russian invaders Msta-S self propelled howitzers

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## thetutle

LeGenD said:


> You need to distinguish dynamics of "offensive conflicts" from "defensive conflicts."
> 
> Napolean campaign = "defensive conflict" for then Russian hemisphere.
> 
> Hitler campaign = "defensive conflict" for then USSR.
> 
> Mongols showed that Russian hemisphere can be overrun and Russians can be defeated in their home-turf.
> 
> Hitler was up against both US-led forces in the West and the USSR in the East - the odds were not in his favor since 1942.
> 
> Ukraine campaign = "offensive conflict" for modern Russia and its forces can be defeated there. USSR was defeated in Afghanistan for example.
> 
> Modern Russia have significant nuclear warfare capability and there is no need to invade its mainland due to obvious reasons. Leap in technologies might provide an opening at some point in the future but Russian - Western relationship dynamics can also change over time. Time will tell.


I honestly think US could destroy russia in a conventional war without russia even being able to launch nukes against America. We are at the point or reaching the point where this is possible. Why else is russia investing so much in these new super-weapons that can deliver a missile in 8 seconds to London. etc. They must know their nuclear deterrence is compromised. They probably knew that in the 1980's when Reagan started talking about Star Wars program. And they just gave up the arms race and any serious competition against America.



jamahir said:


> What if Russia adopts a progressive socio-economic system, better than its USSR times ?


Not very hard to do.


----------



## Wood




----------



## F-22Raptor

thetutle said:


> I honestly think US could destroy russia in a conventional war without russia even being able to launch nukes against America. We are at the point or reaching the point where this is possible. Why else is russia investing so much in these new super-weapons that can deliver a missile in 8 seconds to London. etc. They must know their nuclear deterrence is compromised. They probably knew that in the 1980's when Reagan started talking about Star Wars program. And they just gave up the arms race and any serious competition against America.



Russia fears US cruise missile capability. The US launched 500 on the first day of the 2nd Gulf War. The US could destroy a large portion of Russias nuclear infrastructure.

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## LeGenD

Apollon said:


> Btw Russia is no power. Economy weaker than spain and a weak military.



Dude? Russia is one of the most powerful countries in the world. 

Russia looks weak due to the kind of effects produced by US/NATO on its economy (through sanctions) and on its military campaign in Ukraine (through assistance to Ukraine). 

Russia miscalculated its options in Ukraine on following counts:

1. They though that Zelenskyy administration does not have legitimacy and Ukranians will welcome Russians.

2. They were not expecting US/NATO to intervene on behalf of Ukraine. This was in part due to US/NATO accomodating Russian mission in Syria.

RAND also have a hand in stoking Russian ego in its war-gaming session for Baltics. US/NATO are known to exaggerate military prowess of the war-gamed enemy to build their own capabilities. They strive to be two-steps ahead of others with this approach. I have had debates with both Iranians and Chinese members on these lines and cautioned all of them.

Another lesson is that modern warfare is increasingly complex, HYBRID and expensive to fight for an average country. Try at your own risk.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522590341139939328

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Corax said:


> Isn't this the same type of frigate used by the injians?



It is much more advanced than Shivalik.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

LeGenD said:


> Dude? Russia is one of the most powerful countries in the world.
> 
> Russia looks weak due to the kind of effects produced by US/NATO on its economy (through sanctions) and on its military campaign in Ukraine (through assistance to Ukraine).
> 
> Russia miscalculated its options in Ukraine on following counts:
> 
> 1. They though that Zelenskyy administration does not have legitimacy and Ukranians will welcome Russians.
> 
> 2. They were not expecting US/NATO to intervene on behalf of Ukraine. This was in part due to US/NATO accomodating Russian mission in Syria.
> 
> RAND also have a hand in stoking Russian ego in its war-gaming session for Baltics. US/NATO are known to exaggerate military prowess of the war-gamed enemy to build their own capabilities. They strive to be two-steps ahead of others with this approach. I have had debates with both Iranians and Chinese members on these lines and cautioned all of them.
> 
> Another lesson is that modern warfare is increasingly complex, HYBRID and expensive to fight for an average country. Try at your own risk.



Agree. I consider Russia, China, America to be the 3 powers of the world.

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## Corax

Tai Hai Chen said:


> It is much more advanced than Shivalik.



Doesn't say much about the Shivalik then  injians must regretting having so much russian junk in their armed forces.


----------



## Apollon

Tai Hai Chen said:


> You are paranoid. USSR never annexed eastern Europe. It is soft power only, just like the US, no official annexation but only soft power. You watch too much Hollywood.



Are you crazy? USSR occupied entire eastern europe including eastern Germany. There was 40 years terror reighn. Iron curtain. USSR army murdered thousands in eastern europe. Prague uprising. Uprising in Berlin ect. 


Its important to crush russia so much that it never again poses a threat

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> Are you crazy? USSR occupied entire eastern europe including eastern Germany. There was 40 years terror reighn. Iron curtain. USSR army murdered thousands in eastern europe. Prague uprising. Uprising in Berlin ect.
> 
> 
> Its important to crush russia so much that it never again poses a threat



West Germany was occupied by Americans and still is. Germans should grow a pair and kick Americans out.

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> You forgot the most logical "what if".
> 
> 
> What if Russia gets rid of its incompetent criminal mafia regime, gives up its tyrannical imperialist thuggish behavior towards its neighbors and becomes a democracy. Values human life and starts to act like a responsible nations towards its own people and towards its neighbors?



Yes, a person supporting NATO is the one to lecture others about being responsible, democratic and respectful of human life.  

BTW if you don't like Putin you get the alternative - the Communists who are the second-largest party in Russia.


----------



## thetutle

jamahir said:


> BTW if you don't like Putin you get the alternative - the Communists who are the second-largest party in Russia.


It would be great if communists took over russia.


----------



## F-22Raptor

You see the rate of losses Russia is incurring now, and the US Congress still hasn’t approved the $33B package for Ukraine, half of which will supply the Ukrainian military. That will last Ukraine at least 5 months.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russian fascists invaders Msta-S howitzers


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522537502762213379


----------



## jamahir

thetutle said:


> It would be great if communists took over russia.



Why do you say so ?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522529926272139266


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522354401213657090

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522354854005547011

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522355227495743488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522357401214672897

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

Ukrainians are kicking Russian thugs out of the Kharkiv region


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522605953107075073

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## FairAndUnbiased

jamal18 said:


> A few years ago, the Chinese C of S gave a talk in which he said that he did not consider the Chinese military to be equal to the US.


Ukrainian military is said to not be the equal of Russia yet here we are.

Ukraine only has 1/4 Russian population, 1/8 GDP, no nukes.

China has 4x US population, about equal GDP (more nominal industrial/agricultural GDP), has nukes.


----------



## BHAN85

Vergennes said:


> Starlink and Elon are shitting on the russians.



Some people in the West believe falsely that Russians can hack everything. 

Zelensky life is a living prove of the opposite to those fearmongering claims.

Russians can only cyberattack low profile targets, and making a lot of noise.

Compare that to the destination of Gadafi *ss thanks to hack his sat phone. Americans are the true main hackers of this world, but they are silent and quiet, they dont make noise.

by the other side Zelensky could open a Tiktok account and post dances everyday, meanwhile Russians can't locate him.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522614547097473027

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Smerch attacking S-300


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522612830129774598


Vergennes said:


> Ukrainians are kicking Russian thugs out of the Kharkiv region
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522605953107075073



Kharkiv is only 20 km from Russian border. Russian artillery can hit Kharkiv from Russian soil.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Clutch said:


> US intel helped Ukraine sink massive Russian warship​By Jesse O’Neill
> 
> May 5, 2022 | 9:48pm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian forces were able to sink Russian missile cruiser Moskva thanks to US intelligence, according to an official.Twitter/east2west news
> US intelligence played a pivotal role in Ukraine’s attack on a flagship Russian warship last month, an American official said Thursday.
> 
> Ukraine targeted and sank the Russian missile cruiser Moskva on April 14 with its own anti-ship missiles after the US provided “a range of intelligence” that included the location of the ship in the Black Sea, the official said on the condition of anonymity.


According to a US statement, they just confirmed the position.


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Yes, a person supporting NATO is the one to lecture others about being responsible, democratic and respectful of human life.
> 
> BTW if you don't like Putin you get the alternative - the Communists who are the second-largest party in Russia.



Well where are living standards higher? NATO nations or Russia? 


How about we weaken russia enough so its irrelevant who rules there? Best option for Europe.


----------



## letsrock

Apollon said:


> Well where are living standards higher? NATO nations or Russia?
> 
> 
> How about we weaken russia enough so its irrelevant who rules there? Best option for Europe.



Ukraine is a near nato nation and maybe the biggest cheerleader of it right now. what are its living standards ?
You dont get western living standards by setting your own house on fire and sucking up to west.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> Well where are living standards higher? NATO nations or Russia?
> 
> 
> How about we weaken russia enough so its irrelevant who rules there? Best option for Europe.



In NATO countries life is hard. People are stressful and anxious so they turn to drugs, LGBTQ, population is aging and falling. In NATO countries the richer you are, the higher your tax percentage. In NATO countries politicians cater to the stupid, weak, disabled, handicapped for votes. In NATO countries gene pool is weak and getting weaker by the day.


----------



## letsrock

Another funny thing is despite all the claims about civilization in europe this war once again underlines the savagery there. People willingly killing their own neighbors or egging one fighting against other, raping and pillaging them because they cannot sit and negotiate like adults. And same people turn up their noses against any tribal war in africa. There has been no war in far east after china -vietnam war. Even india pakistan held peace for 50 years and even when they fought they rarely damaged civilian infrastructure.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

letsrock said:


> Another funny thing is despite all the claims about civilization in europe this war once again underlines the savagery there. People willingly killing their own neighbors or egging one fighting against other, raping and pillaging them because they cannot sit and negotiate like adults. And same people turn up their noses against any tribal war in africa. There has been no war in far east after china -vietnam war. Even india pakistan held peace for 50 years and even when they fought they rarely damaged civilian infrastructure.



East Asian men have little testosterone therefore little or no aggression so no war in East Asia. This is because East Asia has been civilized for thousands of years whereas northern Europe is only recently civilized. In East Asia men and women are the same height. In northern Europe men are about half a foot taller than women because of testosterone and aggression.


----------



## RoadAmerica

Tai Hai Chen said:


> You are paranoid. USSR never annexed eastern Europe. It is soft power only, just like the US, no official annexation but only soft power. You watch too much Hollywood.


You obviously haven’t studied European history



jamahir said:


> You think along Capitalist lines. What if Russia and the world have a modular, device-level electricity source that will eliminate or drastically minimize oil and gas production ? What if Russia bans all personal vehicles ( cars and two-wheelers ) and remakes intra-city and inter-city transportation skybuses and skytaxis by using airships and provides for police, fire service etc vehicles using the cyclocar concept ? What if Russia gets its computer produced internally to some extent and in China using non-silicon or non-fully-silicon materials and different computing paradigms ? What if Russia adopts a progressive socio-economic system, better than its USSR times ?


None of those will happen, nice fairytale


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522622084429627393


----------



## letsrock

RoadAmerica said:


> You obviously haven’t studied European history
> 
> 
> None of those will happen, nice fairytale



He is right. When did USSR annex anything ? they actually liberated so many republics from czar empire - the baltics and poland were all liberated by bolsheviks from czar. After second world war too most of eastern europe had thier own countries. only a few became soviet republics. And each one of the soviet republic had a right to walk away whenever they wanted. Which they exercised in early 90s.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522626486766874624


----------



## letsrock

Tai Hai Chen said:


> East Asian men have little testosterone therefore little or no aggression so no war in East Asia. This is because East Asia has been civilized for thousands of years whereas northern Europe is only recently civilized. In East Asia men and women are the same height. In northern Europe men are about half a foot taller than women because of testosterone and aggression.



Nothing of that sort. Its all pseudo science.


----------



## LeGenD

Tai Hai Chen said:


> West Germany was occupied by Americans and still is. Germans should grow a pair and kick Americans out.


It is not this simple.

Germany have its economic (and security) interests and needs. Germans were accommodating Russians but situation in Ukraine have made them reconsider their options. Tough.


----------



## RoadAmerica

Tai Hai Chen said:


> With the amount of western hardware delivered it makes no difference. They need to 100 times that to make a small impact, 1,000 times that to make a moderate impact, 10,000 times that to beat Russia out of Ukraine.


Dude I’ve already pointed out you can’t do math. 1000x would be more than enough to push the Russians back to Moscow.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522622084429627393



Only 100 million? Should be 100 billion.



RoadAmerica said:


> Dude I’ve already pointed out you can’t do math. 1000x would be more than enough to push the Russians back to Moscow.



Russians are hard to push back. Even Napoleon and Hitler can't push back Russians.



letsrock said:


> Nothing of that sort. Its all pseudo science.



I am East Asian man. I have very little testosterone.


----------



## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522622084429627393



I’m thinking a new shipment of Javelins and drones.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522247652548689920


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522632688926179329


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

letsrock said:


> He is right. When did USSR annex anything ? they actually liberated so many republics from czar empire - the baltics and poland were all liberated by bolsheviks from czar. After second world war too most of eastern europe had thier own countries. only a few became soviet republics. And each one of the soviet republic had a right to walk away whenever they wanted. Which they exercised in early 90s.


The Baltics were attacked, occupied and annexed in the beginning of WWII.
Finland had the same problem.
Why do you think Königsberg now is called Kaliningrad?
What happened to the Eastern part of pre-war Poland?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522633933250351105


----------



## MajesticPug

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522514104535162880



Glory to Hitler!! Interesting how the US had turned from a foe in WWII to a friend to Nazis. Yesterday's enemy is today's buddy.

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## letsrock

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The Baltics were attacked, occupied and annexed in the beginning of WWII.
> Finland had the same problem.
> Why do you think Königsberg now is called Kaliningrad?
> What happened to the Eastern part of pre-war Poland?


Baltics were part of Czar empire till first world war then occupied by germans. It was bolsheviks who first recognized them as independent states. Later they became soviet republics with the right to walk away whenever they wanted which they did.
Konigsberg is a unique area .It was a small german territory to the east of poland and its obviously not polish so soviets kept it to themselves.

Poland history is more complicated than what you are saying. pre-second world war Poles tried their own Polonization over eastern european countries trying to do a forcible demographic change.


----------



## Clutch

A.P. Richelieu said:


> According to a US statement, they just confirmed the position.



I.e. provides coordinates for the strike missile.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Clutch said:


> I.e. provides coordinates for the strike missile.



Neptune is not GPS guided. More propaganda. Even C-802 hit an Israeli warship.









New Hezbollah footage purports to show 2006 strike on Israeli Navy ship


Al-Manar TV airs video it says shows preparations for deadly attack on INS Hanit during Second Lebanon War, an event which became a symbol of Israel's overconfidence




www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Ali_Baba

Looks like the Ukranians Farmers have managed to bag another Russian warship !!!!! Wow !!! Suprised the Russians got caught again and lost another ship so quickly.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## MajesticPug

F-22Raptor said:


> You see the rate of losses Russia is incurring now, and the US Congress still hasn’t approved the $33B package for Ukraine, half of which will supply the Ukrainian military. That will last Ukraine at least 5 months.



Biden's Misinformation Bureau should arrest you for spreading fake info but, hey, it's responsible for much fake stuff you hear on the media and the reason you just lip sync whatever was spat to you. So you probably haven't heard Russia's oil/gas revenues doubled since the special military operation. What that means is Europe is financing the war. The proxy war US waged will become the most costly proxy advanture -- just short of the direct involvements of Vietnam and Korea. Go figure. There are winners of course: Lockheed and the gangs AND the American politicians.


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

A.P. Richelieu said:


> According to a US statement, they just confirmed the position.



Ukraine [pointing to a spot on map]:Is it here?
US: nope
Ukraine:is it there?
US: nope but getting colder
Ukraine:is it there?
US: warmer
Ukraine: a little more here?
US: colder
Ukraine: a little more here?
US: warmer
Ukraine: there?
US: hot
Ukraine: there?
US: less hot
Ukraine: there?
US: red hot

Ukraine: thanks for confirming the location
US:


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522280258023567360

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## MajesticPug

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522280258023567360



Stupid news. Why would the Russians want to enter the tunnel to risk their lives? Putin had already ordered Russian troops surround, seal, and wait. Soon or later the Ukrainian Nazis and NATO officers will have to surrender or die. They are offering the Russian forces 15 Ukrainian citizens for 1 ton of food. Russia could drive a hard bargain on these criminals and end the siege sooner.


----------



## Clutch

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Neptune is not GPS guided. More propaganda. Even C-802 hit an Israeli warship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Hezbollah footage purports to show 2006 strike on Israeli Navy ship
> 
> 
> Al-Manar TV airs video it says shows preparations for deadly attack on INS Hanit during Second Lebanon War, an event which became a symbol of Israel's overconfidence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com



It's allover American mainstream media. I guess you know more than the Americans



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522280258023567360



Easy .... Flood the tunnels with gas.... All dead in a few minutes....


----------



## Viet

khansaheeb said:


> It's just a smart way of weakening Ukraine , they can't have a nation that can challenge the colonial euro leaders of France and UK. Ukraine will be in debt for generations forever paying the war costs.


Same damage to the Russians
They self destroy everything they built in 30y to the west.
What’s Putin’s end game?
Selling cheap oil, gas, coal to China and India?


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522646778167717888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522644102701105154

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Same damage to the Russians
> They self destroy everything they built in 30y to the west.
> What’s Putin’s end game?
> Selling cheap oil, gas, coal to China and India?



Russians only treat those who respect Russians with respect.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522646158212050944

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russians only treat those who respect Russians with respect.


Not the right way to do what they do now. Respect is something one has to earn it. The Russians don’t deserve respect when they create lies, fear and hatred.


----------



## khansaheeb

Viet said:


> Same damage to the Russians
> They self destroy everything they built in 30y to the west.
> What’s Putin’s end game?
> Selling cheap oil, gas, coal to China and India?


Well if US and EU can sell weapons to India while they attack Pakistan then why can't Pakistan buy cheap oil of Russia?


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522649657091969027


----------



## Viet

khansaheeb said:


> Well if US and EU can sell weapons to India while they attack Pakistan then why can't Pakistan buy cheap oil of Russia?


Sure, Pakistan can buy cheap oil from Russia. Putin has no choice to cheap sell. He will sell to everyone who willing to buy. EU buys half of Russian oil. That going to end.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522649653778472964

Reactions: Love Love:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Flight of falcon

Everytime I come to this thread I read


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522633933250351105




I gotta give you credit for posting more propaganda and cheap nonsensical statements from Western politicians/analysts than all other members combined. While the entire country of Ukraine is obliterated in front of our eyes, I fail to see where the victory lies for the Ukrainians.

In fact this clown Zelenski again begged for peace with Russia today. I guess Ukrainians still believe in non existent and utter nonsense of Ghost of Kiev to come and rescue them.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522311724824600576


----------



## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522649653778472964



Overall losses in armour ~120-140 this week on the Russian side

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

Russian Defense: Our defenses shot down two fighters and destroyed huge weapons stores in Ukraine

@AlArabiya_Brk




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522508132957802497


----------



## Ich

MajesticPug said:


> Glory to Hitler!! Interesting how the US had turned from a foe in WWII to a friend to Nazis. Yesterday's enemy is today's buddy.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
3 | Wow Wow:
2


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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> Overall losses in armour ~120-140 this week on the Russian side




The US has provided around $4B in military aid to Ukraine to date. Soon, a $33B package with $16B going to Ukraines military will be passed. 

Russia is finding itself in a completely unsustainable position. The US and the West will keep supplying Ukraine until every piece of Russian armor is obliterated. Biden has already stated the US can keep this up for years.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522522998888087552
First Switchblade use


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522498822156566528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522393022314561536


----------



## The SC

*Kremlin: Poland may be a source of threat*

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-says-poland-might-be-source-threat-2022-05-06/



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522608302038958082

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522580051283304449


----------



## Wood

Clutch said:


> Easy .... Flood the tunnels with gas.... All dead in a few minutes....


You have a dangerous mind


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522647885694877697
M777 in Western Ukraine

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522598642510487552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522518612761661442

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522595013963620352

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## Primus

Corax said:


> Isn't this the same type of frigate used by the injians?


Yep


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522650203362406403

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522656750435975168


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522523577257533440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522499555689963520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522472720327454720


----------



## Ali_Baba

The SC said:


> Russian Defense: Our defenses shot down two fighters and destroyed huge weapons stores in Ukraine
> 
> @AlArabiya_Brk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522508132957802497



Still need a more official confirmation of some description for this event - would be historic if true.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522494075575934977

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522649037358657536


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522583274996092928


----------



## Apollon

letsrock said:


> Ukraine is a near nato nation and maybe the biggest cheerleader of it right now. what are its living standards ?
> You dont get western living standards by setting your own house on fire and sucking up to west.



Fun fact, even in war living standards in Ukraine are higher than in Russia.


Higher live expectancy, higher income.


Thats the reason why Putins thugs steal washing machines, mobile phones and video game consoles.


Russia is a dirt poor hellhole.


As for Ukraine, the ukrainian nation is forged right infront us right now. Nations need a foundation myth that creates unity. This war and its unbelieveable sucess for Ukraine is just that. Russia raped and pillaged Ukraime since hundreds of years. 


Now tenthousamds of russian soldiers are ripped apart, burned to ash. 


Its a common trope in Ukraine already that russian enemies become fertilizer.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__





US DoD reviewing more than 300 industry proposals that could tap $6B for Ukraine weapons


Pentagon acquisition chief Bill LaPlante said the Defense Department hopes to spend $6 billion in emergency funding to procure new weapons that can be delivered directly to Ukraine, rather than transferred from U.S. stocks, and has received more than 300 proposals from defense contractors...



defence.pk






The US DoD has received over 300 defense industry proposals for new weapons for Ukraine. $6B will be awarded for new weapons.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522479745165836288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522590760083808256


----------



## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US DoD reviewing more than 300 industry proposals that could tap $6B for Ukraine weapons
> 
> 
> Pentagon acquisition chief Bill LaPlante said the Defense Department hopes to spend $6 billion in emergency funding to procure new weapons that can be delivered directly to Ukraine, rather than transferred from U.S. stocks, and has received more than 300 proposals from defense contractors...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The US DoD has received over 300 defense industry proposals for new weapons for Ukraine. $6B will be awarded for new weapons.



USA gets to test all kinds of new weapons and war concepts without risk to itself and directly on Russians - what is there not to like for the USA ?!


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522672434285010946

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522672823378006019


----------



## sammuel

LeGenD said:


> Another lesson is that modern warfare is increasingly complex, HYBRID and expensive to fight for an average country. Try at your own risk.



I would hope the lesson would be that war is obsolete. The idea of firing those giant cannons at one another from 40 km away. Simply madness. Does not fit anymore the time and age we live in.

~


----------



## Apollon

Flight of falcon said:


> Everytime I come to this thread I read
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta give you credit for posting more propaganda and cheap nonsensical statements from Western politicians/analysts than all other members combined. While the entire country of Ukraine is obliterated in front of our eyes, I fail to see where the victory lies for the Ukrainians.
> 
> In fact this clown Zelenski again begged for peace with Russia today. I guess Ukrainians still believe in non existent and utter nonsense of Ghost of Kiev to come and rescue them.




Ukraine wins by destroying Russia as a nation state. 


And we watch how Russia crumbles apart right infront our eyes. 


In a way Ukraine is the perfect acid bath prepared for Pussolini


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522515320530952192


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

letsrock said:


> Baltics were part of Czar empire till first world war then occupied by germans. It was bolsheviks who first recognized them as independent states. Later they became soviet republics with the right to walk away whenever they wanted which they did.
> Konigsberg is a unique area .It was a small german territory to the east of poland and its obviously not polish so soviets kept it to themselves.
> 
> Poland history is more complicated than what you are saying. pre-second world war Poles tried their own Polonization over eastern european countries trying to do a forcible demographic change.


In short: the USSR attacked and annexed most of its neighbours. Russia is continuing in the same style.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

A.P. Richelieu said:


> In short: the USSR attacked and annexed most of its neighbours.



USSR was smaller than Russian empire.









Russian Empire - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522673521628962824


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522461654625173515


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522348796331855872


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Ukraine [pointing to a spot on map]:Is it here?
> US: nope
> Ukraine:is it there?
> US: nope but getting colder
> Ukraine:is it there?
> US: warmer
> Ukraine: a little more here?
> US: colder
> Ukraine: a little more here?
> US: warmer
> Ukraine: there?
> US: hot
> Ukraine: there?
> US: less hot
> Ukraine: there?
> US: red hot
> 
> Ukraine: thanks for confirming the location
> US: no problem.


Your fantasies adds little to the thread,

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## The SC

Dmitry Medvedev advised Ukrainians to "not praise themselves" after Polish President Andrzej Duda said there would be no border between Kyiv and Warsaw.

According to him, the task of the Poles is to restore their historical lands and as a result of which Ukraine will lose its state.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522561385829474304


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522614982428532737

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522621647676575745

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522471766693662720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522620356065910789

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522449761403551745

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522449137979043840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522664273956245504


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522632087492341762


----------



## dBSPL

I know it's ordinary now, and not newsworthy, but:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522522998888087552

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522629515519791104


----------



## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> The US has provided around $4B in military aid to Ukraine to date. Soon, a $33B package with $16B going to Ukraines military will be passed.
> 
> Russia is finding itself in a completely unsustainable position. The US and the West will keep supplying Ukraine until every piece of Russian armor is obliterated. Biden has already stated the US can keep this up for years.



120 pieces of armour is low in comparison to previous weeks, and the start, they were losing many times that per week.

Russians are nowhere near completely depleted on armour. It's just they stopped attacking, and are entrenching on their own.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522626542240735239


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Paul2 said:


> 120 pieces of armour is low in comparison to previous weeks, and the start, they were losing many times that per week.
> 
> Russians are nowhere near completely depleted on armour. It's just they stopped attacking, and are entrenching on their own.



Ukrainian armor are vulnerable to Russian anti tank missiles.


----------



## dBSPL

7 Russian oligarchs found dead in 3 months

>The victims were linked to Russian gas companies.
>Most recently, on April 19, Sergey Protosenya, former Deputy General Manager of Russian natural gas company Novatek, and his family were found dead in their villa in Spain.

#Great Purge

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522382226620616706


----------



## The SC

Captive soldier of the Ukrainian Armed Forces: "They promised 100 thousand hryvnia - no one got that amount"


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522479175008989190


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522675449431744514
Ukraine had recently destroyed Russian military vehicles with Tb2s on the Snake Island, which is under Russian control.

With new footages it turns out that another Tb2 Bayraktar viewed and coordinated the attack from 107.2 km away.

I would like to point out, this is just a tactical UAV. But, Who buys a US drone for $40-50 million after accessing these capabilities?

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## dbc

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522621647676575745



lots of rounds down range but I don’t see any hostiles …what are these Chechens shooting at?…and the camera person isn’t concerned about cover …bizarre

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## Wood

The Russian Frigate ‘Admiral Makarov’ Might Be The Juiciest Target In The Black Sea


After the dramatic sinking of the missile-cruiser Moskva by a Ukrainian missile battery on April 14, the Russian Black Sea Fleet is down to just three major surface combatants. The best and most important of them might be the new missile-frigate 'Admiral Makarov.'




www.forbes.com





Seems like there are two more frigates of the same class as Admiral Makarov in black sea. But Russia is keeping them away from range of Ukranian missiles, effectively removing them from combat for now

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## Paul2

Paul2 said:


> 120 pieces of armour is low in comparison to previous weeks, and the start, they were losing many times that per week.
> 
> Russians are nowhere near completely depleted on armour. It's just they stopped attacking, and are entrenching on their own.



Most of these losses this week came from Kharkiv area, where Russians only had light motorised, and artillery. I guess, around a half of the digit.

People fighting near Kharkiv are not regular Ukrainian army, but irregulars, and militias which do not seem to coordinate much well with the rest of the military.

Nevertheless, the offence worked off well, and militias had no problem going against spread out, weaker Russian units.

But so far, this week Russian frontline units have wrapped up any concerted assault attempts. They are entrenching, and preserving their armour.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522686181984641026

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Flight of falcon

Apollon said:


> Ukraine wins by destroying Russia as a nation state.
> 
> 
> And we watch how Russia crumbles apart right infront our eyes.
> 
> 
> In a way Ukraine is the perfect acid bath prepared for Pussolini




It’s perfectly legal in Canada to smoke as much weed as you want ….

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522664252720529409

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522664252720529409


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Paul2 said:


> Most of these losses this week came from Kharkiv area, where Russians only had light motorised, and artillery. I guess, around a half of the digit.
> 
> People fighting near Kharkiv are not regular Ukrainian army, but irregulars, and militias which do not seem to coordinate much well with the rest of the military.
> 
> Nevertheless, the offence worked off well, and militias had no problem going against spread out, weaker Russian units.
> 
> But so far, this week Russian frontline units have wrapped up any concerted assault attempts. They are entrenching, and preserving their armour.



IMO Kharkiv is not a big deal because Kharkiv is near Russian border and Russian artillery can hit it from Russian soil.


----------



## The SC

dbc said:


> lots of rounds down range but I don’t see any hostiles …what are these Chechens shooting at?…and the camera person isn’t concerned about cover …bizarre


Check post #33,043


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522667502756679682

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522687294532046849

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522669614286741505


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522624824538923008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522472246559723520

#Moscow: #Britain made her final decision and launched an open confrontation with #Russia

@khalediskef

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522706091720810500

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522706743377395712

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> 120 pieces of armour is low in comparison to previous weeks, and the start, they were losing many times that per week.
> 
> Russians are nowhere near completely depleted on armour. It's just they stopped attacking, and are entrenching on their own.



I’m looking out over the next year. If Russia keeps losing armor at this rate, their military will be largely combat ineffective. The US can keep supplying Ukraine for years.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522645338473082887


F-22Raptor said:


> I’m looking out over the next year. If Russia keeps losing armor at this rate, their military will be largely combat ineffective. The US can keep supplying Ukraine for years.



Who needs armour when you have:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522664273956245504


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522658495379693569

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522623251964436485

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522623911175016448


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522528013052788736


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522559729591062533


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522715094093864963

Reactions: Love Love:
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## RescueRanger

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522664252720529409
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522664252720529409


Looking at the movement of that column - Russians have a zero f***s given attitude to force protection- and this lax approach is why they are so open to ambush.

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## RoadAmerica

letsrock said:


> He is right. When did USSR annex anything ? they actually liberated so many republics from czar empire - the baltics and poland were all liberated by bolsheviks from czar. After second world war too most of eastern europe had thier own countries. only a few became soviet republics. And each one of the soviet republic had a right to walk away whenever they wanted. Which they exercised in early 90s.


Seriously?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522712124442697728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522715111852589057

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood




----------



## The SC

After the death sentence, a mercenary wishes to replace him with other captives





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=477446980836184






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522720746895724545


----------



## Wood

Seems like Russia is preparing for mobilization

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522694051870515201

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522733292038107138

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522730767612268547

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522735070301364225


----------



## The SC

There is a tight American planning to drain the Russians in a long war against Ukraine, supported by Europe, which in turn will be economically affected by the rise in oil prices.
It means, America wants to win out of this war without being a direct party, but everyone is aware of the scheme..

Ukraine has become a cake that everyone wants to share, and all this with the blessing of its president, Agent Zelensky

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522734606939680768


----------



## The SC

Who armed Ukraine and decided to expand NATO? Prof John Mearsheimer​




00:00 UK, Germany and France do they have a role in Ukraine vs Russia war?
01:42 Does the EU or Nato have a role in Ukraine vs Russia war? 
04:57 Who decided to expand NATO? 
07:39 Are we moving from an US Unipole to Multipolar world? 
10:28 Is China a threat to Russia? 
12:14 Can Ukraine, as a buffer state, lead to peace? 
17:06 Did Nato promise not to expand to the east? 
19:40 Who decided to arm Ukraine? 23:49 Why do Europeans and Americans hate Russians so much? 
26:40 Can libral international order with USA on top survive? 
30:14 Does Putin suffer from a personality disorder? 
32:02 Nato needs Russia and its threats to continue its existance? 
36:30 Does having nuclear weapons lessen wars?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522741207255990278

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522484035121033217

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522698763755737090

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522571563744251904

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## -=virus=-

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522571563744251904


Putin is totally losing, bro 

corpse Biden is winning

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

The head of Ukraine's military intelligence, Kirillo Budanov, said that the only way to end the Russian war in Ukraine is to kill Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Budanov made these comments during an interview with the newspaper "New Voice of Ukraine". He was asked about the possibility that Putin would end the war while he was still alive. Budanov replied that giving him a chance to withdraw is one of our strategies but that it is almost unrealistic.

The Russian president was exposed to 5 assassination attempts, which were revealed in 2017. At that time, Putin gave a televised interview to American director Oliver Stone, and the latter said that "the Russian president was subjected to five assassination attempts during his three presidential terms."

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> The head of Ukraine's military intelligence, Kirillo Budanov, said that the only way to end the Russian war in Ukraine is to kill Russian President Vladimir Putin.
> 
> Budanov made these comments during an interview with the newspaper "New Voice of Ukraine". He was asked about the possibility that Putin would end the war while he was still alive. Budanov replied that giving him a chance to withdraw is one of our strategies but that it is almost unrealistic.
> 
> The Russian president was exposed to 5 assassination attempts, which were revealed in 2017. At that time, Putin gave a televised interview to American director Oliver Stone, and the latter said that "the Russian president was subjected to five assassination attempts during his three presidential terms."


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522764845199863809

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## CAPRICORN-88

In my observation and analysis basrd on availalble information, consider this.

Ukraine is indeed trapped in a civil war.

Russia is indeed conducting a special military operation where their mission included denazification anf dismantling of the US and NATO trained AZOV neo-NAZI battalions.

This is indeed a war by proxies where both the opposing side are Ukrainians.

Russian forces are there with specific roles to play - a perfunctory roles where their main tasks are: -

Encirclement of cities and districts controlled by Ukrainian and AZOV neo-NAZI battalion.
So far evidences have suggested and proved that they are not engaged in any real hand to hand battles.

Provides heavy artillery, air support and precision missile strikes at strategic targets.

Hence the pace of this civil war is determined by the availability of the militias of DNR and other breakaway Provinces.

That is why thr DNR militia are drawn away from Mariopul and heading South slowly towards Odessa. .

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

Tai Hai Chen said:


>


These top ranking Ukrainian military Neo-nazis are not really in their mind and far from being rational as main stream Ukrainians who understand to some extent the world..

This is like saying the only way to end this war is by killing /assassinating Biden..


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

There is a rumor based on Intelligence that a top ranking commander is now trapped in Azovstal Steelworks.

It seems he is either a retired top NATO commander or a US military commander.
He is directing the battle using sophiscated telecommunication equipment with the US or NATO.

There is a underground tunnel that is as deep as 20km underneath. They are speculating that there is a secret biolab hidden down there.

That is why there is a report that said Putin has instructed his General not to attack but rather to wait and starve them out.

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## Wood




----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522764845199863809



Damn that is a sick radar.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Russia Military is waiting for NATO and the US to despatch their soldiers to Ukraine. 

And that will probably not happened but a prolong civil war is ensured. 

After the Eastern Provinces are secured, the fighting may raged on in central and Western Ukraine. 
But Russia may stayed put in the breakaway provinces and only provide air and missile supports when they are needed like what they did in Syria. 

This is when the Syrian Mercenaries will entered the war. 

Ukraine will never be the same again. 

Putin is indeed a Master Chess Player if what I observed is true. 

It is Checkmate.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

Help us, support us, give us

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## CAPRICORN-88

*All the US and NATO is left with is PROPAGANDA warfare. *

But affected folks on the ground knew the truth. 

1000 tweets is not equal a single truth or real ground scenario.

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## WotTen

Viet said:


> Sure, Pakistan can buy cheap oil from Russia. Putin has no choice to cheap sell. He will sell to everyone who willing to buy. EU buys half of Russian oil. That going to end.



Iran should buy Russian oil and resell it at a profit. What's the US going to do? Sanction it? LOL.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CAPRICORN-88

The SC said:


> Help us, support us, give us
> 
> View attachment 841641


Unfortunately Yasser Arafat is dead.

Is the poster suggesting Zalensky a walking dead?


----------



## Apollon

Flight of falcon said:


> It’s perfectly legal in Canada to smoke as much weed as you want ….



All good buddy, we see no russian advances since entire operation stalled. At same time we see how russia is losing enormous amounts of equipment and starts to fail replacing those losses. We also see that russia lost 21.000 soldiers already and that happens to russia...a country with one of lowest birthrates in the world. Each dead soldier is a family line that ends.


We saw 12 dead russian general in 2 months. We see a 20% collapse of the russian economy. 


Russias flagship rests on the seafloor of black sea.



All the while Ukraine gets flooded each day with more western weapons. Now even heavy artillery. And it wont stop. The west can ship weapons there for decades. Ukraine is a big country, russias suply lines aleady stretched to breaking point. All over russia explode weapon plants, oil raffineries and railway bridges.


I dont need weed to see how russia dissolves in the acid bath called Ukraine. 




We se


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

May 3, 20227
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/
EU may offer Hungary, Slovakia exemptions from Russian oil embargo​By Jan Strupczewski
and Kate Abnett







The European Union flags flutter ahead of the gas talks between the EU, Russia and Ukraine at the EU Commission headquarters in Brussels, Belgium September 19, 2019. REUTERS/Yves Herman/


BRUSSELS, May 2 (Reuters) - The European Commission may spare Hungary and Slovakia from an embargo on buying Russian oil, now under preparation, wary of the two countries' dependence on Russian crude, two EU officials said on Monday.
The Commission is expected to finalise on Tuesday work on the next, and sixth package of EU sanctions against Russia over its actions in Ukraine, which would include a ban on buying Russian oil. Exports of oil are a major source of Moscow's revenue.

Hungary, heavily dependent on Russian oil, has repeatedly said it would not sign up to sanctions involving energy. Slovakia is also among the EU countries most reliant on Russian fossil fuels.

continue..


----------



## Apollon

WotTen said:


> Iran should buy Russian oil and resell it at a profit. What's the US going to do? Sanction it? LOL.



Lots of mysterious fires in russian oil depots and raffineries can also quickly spread to Iran. What can Iran do when its oil infrastructure blows up? Accidents happen. 


Iran knows that and will not interfer.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

It funny to read news like this.

EU to grant exemption to Hungary and Slovakia???

The crack is now so visible in EU that it is imposible to hide.


----------



## JX-1

Tai Hai Chen said:


> no war in East Asia


Every Chinese civil war or famine has like 100 trillion deaths...


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Ukraine war: China invokes 1999 Belgrade embassy bombing in attack on Nato expansion​
China’s ambassador to the UN renews call for a peaceful resolution to the conflict
Nato hit on Chinese embassy two decades ago a ‘barbaric atrocity’ China will not forget

May 6 2022
SCMP

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## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> It funny to read news like this.
> 
> EU to grant exemption to Hungary and Slovakia???
> 
> The crack is now so visible in EU that it is imposible to hide.



Fun fact, Hungary and Slovakia combimed have less people than city of Paris. 


By making excemptions to small countries the EU as a whole can introduce harsh sanctions without remorse.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Europe Is Buying Natural Gas At A Premium To Fill Up Its Storage​By Irina Slav - May 05, 2022, 6:00 PM CDT

Lower natural gas consumption has helped Europe stock up the commodity.
Europe is paying a premium for natural gas as importers refuse to pay for Russian gas in rubles.
American LNG has been a lifeline for European importers, but some worry that the region could trade its dependency for Russian gas for a dependency on U.S. LNG.


----------



## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Europe Is Buying Natural Gas At A Premium To Fill Up Its Storage​By Irina Slav - May 05, 2022, 6:00 PM CDT
> 
> Lower natural gas consumption has helped Europe stock up the commodity.
> Europe is paying a premium for natural gas as importers refuse to pay for Russian gas in rubles.
> American LNG has been a lifeline for European importers, but some worry that the region could trade its dependency for Russian gas for a dependency on U.S. LNG.



War costs money. Or do you think taking our enemy out js cheap?


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

For screaming out aloud, I wonder why Greece is not providing FREE gas to Hungary and Slovakia.


----------



## Meengla

The SC said:


> The head of Ukraine's military intelligence, Kirillo Budanov, said that the only way to end the Russian war in Ukraine is to kill Russian President Vladimir Putin.
> 
> Budanov made these comments during an interview with the newspaper "New Voice of Ukraine". He was asked about the possibility that Putin would end the war while he was still alive. Budanov replied that giving him a chance to withdraw is one of our strategies but that it is almost unrealistic.
> 
> The Russian president was exposed to 5 assassination attempts, which were revealed in 2017. At that time, Putin gave a televised interview to American director Oliver Stone, and the latter said that "the Russian president was subjected to five assassination attempts during his three presidential terms."



Putin, as a person, is the key. Russia is a total autocracy. Remove Putin, the war will end. And the war wouldn't even have started if some war mongers in Washington couldn't wait to grab Russia's riches by expanding NATO. Putin's death would have and will put Russia, at least from the west of the Urals, to be organically part of Europe. But some people, with roots in the American NeoCons, want to make big bucks and make it now! 



CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *All the US and NATO is left with is PROPAGANDA warfare. *
> 
> But affected folks on the ground knew the truth.
> 
> 1000 tweets is not equal a single truth or real ground scenario.



Yup. A million tweets are nothing compared with a 100 soldiers taking control of a small town. The so-called 'Lion of Panjshir' was supported a lot barely 6-8 months ago by a lot of social media noise but the Taliban conquered the valley which, till that time, was deemed impregnable. 



Apollon said:


> Lots of mysterious fires in russian oil depots and raffineries can also quickly spread to Iran. What can Iran do when its oil infrastructure blows up? Accidents happen.
> 
> 
> Iran knows that and will not interfer.



Iran has Israel by the $alls. And Israel has American establishment by the $alls. A war against Iran is currently unthinkable for those reasons. While Iran may get destroyed totally but they will bring down Israel and wipe them off the map as a livable country. Those who grow up well fed, secure, prosperous for generations, as in Israel, wouldn't want to live in a destroyed and endangered country--they would flee back to NYC or Moscow or Warsaw.


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## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> For screaming out aloud, I wonder why Greece is not providing FREE gas to Hungary and Slovakia.



We provide gas to Bulgaria which depended 90% on russian gas and now found alternatives.


Its what chinese dont understand. Once the pipeline is closed, it never opens again. Its a short pain for the recipient but eternal damage for Russia. Russia gets sealed off completly from Europe and that also brings chinas silk road into trouble. European corporations wont send their goods via rail through russia and also will not accept trade via rail through russia.


Heared China already starts an alternative south of russia. Which tells me that china accepts that russia is a dead end.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Just when we thought Turkey is Greece perpetual enemy. 

They expanded the list to include another one - one that is far beyond them - a superpower.


----------



## Apollon

Meengla said:


> Putin, as a person, is the key. Russia is a total autocracy. Remove Putin, the war will end. And the war wouldn't even have started if some war mongers in Washington couldn't wait to grab Russia's riches by expanding NATO. Putin's death would have and will put Russia, at least from the west of the Urals, to be organically part of Europe. But some people, with roots in the American NeoCons, want to make big bucks and make it now!
> 
> 
> 
> Yup. A million tweets are nothing compared with a 100 soldiers taking control of a small town. The so-called 'Lion of Panjshir' was supported a lot barely 6-8 months ago by a lot of social media noise but the Taliban conquered the valley which, till that time, was deemed impregnable.
> 
> 
> 
> Iran has Israel by the $alls. And Israel has American establishment by the $alls. A war against Iran is currently unthinkable for those reasons. While Iran may get destroyed totally but they will bring down Israel and wipe them off the map as a livable country. Those who grow up well fed, secure, prosperous for generations, as in Israel, wouldn't want to live in a destroyed and endangered country--they would flee back to NYC or Moscow or Warsaw.



Accidents are not war buddy. In russia oil infrastructure blows up evry day.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Meengla said:


> Putin, as a person, is the key. Russia is a total autocracy. Remove Putin, the war will end. And the war wouldn't even have started if some war mongers in Washington couldn't wait to grab Russia's riches by expanding NATO. Putin's death would have and will put Russia, at least from the west of the Urals, to be organically part of Europe. But some people, with roots in the American NeoCons, want to make big bucks and make it now!
> 
> 
> 
> Yup. A million tweets are nothing compared with a 100 soldiers taking control of a small town. The so-called 'Lion of Panjshir' was supported a lot barely 6-8 months ago by a lot of social media noise but the Taliban conquered the valley which, till that time, was deemed impregnable.
> 
> 
> 
> Iran has Israel by the $alls. And Israel has American establishment by the $alls. A war against Iran is currently unthinkable for those reasons. While Iran may get destroyed totally but they will bring down Israel and wipe them off the map as a livable country. Those who grow up well fed, secure, prosperous for generations, as in Israel, wouldn't want to live in a destroyed and endangered country--they would flee back to NYC or Moscow or Warsaw.


Easier to remove Zalensky, Biden and Boris Johnson or Ursula Von Der Loyen. 

They are all clowns anyway.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Meengla said:


> Remove Putin, the war will end.



Putin has nothing to do with it. It is Russian public that is becoming more and more aggressive.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Greece should send 400 Spartan to fight for Ukraine. 

But wait a minute, Spartan don't considered themselves Greek but Roman.

The European history is so complicated.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

DJI Mavic 3 recon drone 







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522706091720810500

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522755045040836608


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Tai Hai Chen said:


> DJI Mavic 3 recon drone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522706091720810500
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522755045040836608


This is where the confusing part begins. 

These are either DNR militia or Chechen. 

The Russian soldiers are not engaged in the real fighting.

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## Apollon

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Putin has nothing to do with it. It is Russian public that is becoming more and more aggressive.



Russian public is meaningless. Its not like they have any influence anyways.

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## CAPRICORN-88

That is why Russia claimed that they have supplied all the captured US ans NATO weapons e.g. Javelin, Stinger, etc to the militia fighting the trapped Ukrainian AZOV neo-NAZI battalion.

All these tweets make you confused as they are recycled over and over again with no date and locations. Don't take them seriously. 

Just marked on the map where the current fighting is taking place.

Looks like they are slowly heading South.

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## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Greece should send 400 Spartan to fight for Ukraine.
> 
> But wait a minute, Spartan don't considered themselves Greek but Roman.
> 
> The European history is so complicated.




You obviously have no clue about anything.

You say spartans considered themself Roman? Rome did not exist as a entity when Sparta was in existence.


That said, Sparta of courde considered itself Greek. They participated in Olympic games, which were only open for Greeks. The Greeks had an overspanning hellenic identity which comprised of many greek city states.


Thats why asian propaganda never works in Europe. You guys dont understand Europe.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

The way I look at it. 

The new reduced Ukraine don't need a navy.

They don't need anothet clown either. 

This one has done enough damage.

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## WotTen

F-22Raptor said:


> The US DoD has received over 300 defense industry proposals for new weapons for Ukraine. $6B will be awarded for new weapons.



I once contracted for an IBM subcontractor on a DoD project in California.

It was the sweetest project I ever worked on. Employees taking 3 hour lunch break literally to see a movie. Catered lunches from actual restaurants (not sandwiches) at least once a week. Company parties on the beach. And I was making excellent money even after at least four middlemen.

DoD money goes a looooooong way!

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## CAPRICORN-88

In 146 BC, Rome conquered Sparta and the rest of Greece. The rebellious Spartan considered themselves Spartan then Roman first.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

In history, Sparta had a different flag from those of Greece and were marching, fighting along side with the ancient Roman Legions. 

That is European history. Very complicated. 
And some confused Greek thinks they are Ukrainian.


----------



## Apollon

Another mysterious fire in a russian chemical plant


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

All these discoveries proved that the history of the people in this part of the world is still being discovered.​As I have been saying. 

A complicating relationship. 

Medieval cargo ship unexpectedly found during construction work in Estonia​By Emily Staniforth published 8 days ago
The powerful Hanseatic League may have owned this ship.





A view of the medieval ship, from the bow, in the excavation pit. (Image credit: Priit Lätti)


Construction workers have found the battered remains of a 700-year-old ship under the streets of the Estonian capital of Tallinn.

Buried approximately 5 feet (1.5 meters) underground, the remnants of the ship are made of oak and are just over 78 feet (24 m) long with a beam, the ship's widest point, measuring about 29 feet (9 m) across.


"The original length of the ship was bigger, since the stempost [the vertical timber at the bow] is missing and the bow of the ship is damaged," Priit Lätti, a researcher at the Estonian Maritime Museum, told Live Science in an email. "The ship was probably built at the beginning of the 14th century," according to a dendrochronological analysis, an examination of the tree rings found in the ship's wooden remains, he said. The ship is, at first glance, very similar to other ships found in Europe from the same time period, he added.

Unearthed near Tallinn's Old Harbor three weeks ago, the ship was a significant find for archaeologist Mihkel Tammet, who had been observing a construction project. According to Lätti, when areas under heritage protection are being excavated, an archaeologist must be present. The Estonian Maritime Museum was notified of the ship's discovery to help provide more information and record the find.

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## CAPRICORN-88

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> All these discoveries proved that the history of the people in this part of the world is still being discovered.​As I have been saying.
> 
> A complicating relationship.
> 
> Medieval cargo ship unexpectedly found during construction work in Estonia​By Emily Staniforth published 8 days ago
> The powerful Hanseatic League may have owned this ship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A view of the medieval ship, from the bow, in the excavation pit. (Image credit: Priit Lätti)
> 
> 
> Construction workers have found the battered remains of a 700-year-old ship under the streets of the Estonian capital of Tallinn.
> 
> Buried approximately 5 feet (1.5 meters) underground, the remnants of the ship are made of oak and are just over 78 feet (24 m) long with a beam, the ship's widest point, measuring about 29 feet (9 m) across.
> 
> 
> "The original length of the ship was bigger, since the stempost [the vertical timber at the bow] is missing and the bow of the ship is damaged," Priit Lätti, a researcher at the Estonian Maritime Museum, told Live Science in an email. "The ship was probably built at the beginning of the 14th century," according to a dendrochronological analysis, an examination of the tree rings found in the ship's wooden remains, he said. The ship is, at first glance, very similar to other ships found in Europe from the same time period, he added.
> 
> Unearthed near Tallinn's Old Harbor three weeks ago, the ship was a significant find for archaeologist Mihkel Tammet, who had been observing a construction project. According to Lätti, when areas under heritage protection are being excavated, an archaeologist must be present. The Estonian Maritime Museum was notified of the ship's discovery to help provide more information and record the find.


The history of the US is only about 200 odd years.
This buried ancient ship itself is 700 year.

And now rockets, bombs send by the US will be causing irreversible destruction of many of these undiscovered historical sites in Ukraine.

Maybe it about time to change the war venue and shift it back to the US where most of the warmongers are dwelling.

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## sammuel

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> And now rockets, bombs send by the US will be causing irreversible destruction of many of these undiscovered historical sites in Ukraine.



Did not know rockets and bombs flew from the US to Ukraine , thought they where coming from Russia,

How blind can you pretend to be ?


~

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## Primus

Ayo why are people suddenly feeling sorry for Serbia during the NATO attack? Have they forgotten what those evil pos did to the Bosnians? Literal genocide?

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## A.P. Richelieu

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Russia Military is waiting for NATO and the US to despatch their soldiers to Ukraine.
> 
> And that will probably not happened but a prolong civil war is ensured.
> 
> After the Eastern Provinces are secured, the fighting may raged on in central and Western Ukraine.
> But Russia may stayed put in the breakaway provinces and only provide air and missile supports when they are needed like what they did in Syria.
> 
> This is when the Syrian Mercenaries will entered the war.
> 
> Ukraine will never be the same again.
> 
> Putin is indeed a Master Chess Player if what I observed is true.
> 
> It is Checkmate.


A relative of yours?

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## Vergennes

A.P. Richelieu said:


> A relative of yours?
> View attachment 841662



Dude's probably not even believing the crap he's writing,but those 5 yuans will not come without "due hard work" I guess.

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## Bengal71

RescueRanger said:


> Looking at the movement of that column - Russians have a zero f***s given attitude to force protection- and this lax approach is why they are so open to ambush.



Or maybe they know the area they are traveling in and know they are in control of the area and the airspace. I doubt a military like Russia will do stupid things like moving without any protection giving zero F to fore protection.


----------



## Bengal71

-=virus=- said:


> Amriki cocksuckers trying so hard to convince people Ukiies are winning
> 
> lagai raho



It's surprising that there are many Muslims concusckers too. I don't know how a Muslim can suck the cocks of Americans and Europeans after they are responsible for the murder of millions of Muslims and destruction of many Muslim countries. Stockholm syndrome I guess.


----------



## RescueRanger

Bengal71 said:


> Or maybe they know the area they are traveling in and know they are in control of the area and the airspace. I doubt a military like Russia will do stupid things like moving without any protection giving zero F to fore protection.


Trust me on this one - or don't - moving large resources like that through an arterial route is a recipe for disaster. I have plenty of case studies to share re this - but here is the most obvious and low tech one utilising a decoy vehicle - a remote command operated daisy chained set of IED's concealed along the route and a very obvious choke-point:

This is a very famous actual case from Iraq where the US learned lessons and developed counter-strategies for roadside ambushes:






video of actual ambush:






How the USMC adapted their tactics following this:

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## Bengal71

Ali_12 said:


> It's proxy war going on in Ukraine between Pakistan and Russia Russia creates terrorism in Pakistan with its poodle india in turn Pakistan is hitting Russian armed forces in Ukraine hope there is a table talk between Pakistan and russia to reign in india and to stop doing terrorism in Pakistan with india only then we can achieve peace in Ukraine in the region in the wider region and the world


----------



## RescueRanger

Ali_12 said:


> It's proxy war going on in Ukraine between Pakistan and Russia Russia creates terrorism in Pakistan with its poodle india in turn Pakistan is hitting Russian armed forces in Ukraine hope there is a table talk between Pakistan and russia to reign in india and to stop doing terrorism in Pakistan with india only then we can achieve peace in Ukraine in the region in the wider region and the world


Lay down the crackpipe son.

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## Apollon

Finally Putins private 700 million yacht was seized by Italy 










Ukraine war: Italy orders seizure of yacht worth $700m linked by media to Vladimir Putin


The Italian finance ministry said in a statement that investigations showed the owner of the boat had ties to "prominent elements of the Russian government" and with people targeted by EU sanctions.




www.google.com


----------



## Bengal71

RescueRanger said:


> Trust me on this one - or don't - moving large resources like that through an arterial route is a recipe for disaster. I have plenty of case studies to share re this - but here is the most obvious and low tech one utilising a decoy vehicle - a remote command operated daisy chained set of IED's concealed along the route and a very obvious choke-point:
> 
> This is a very famous actual case from Iraq where the US learned lessons and developed counter-strategies for roadside ambushes:
> 
> View attachment 841665
> 
> 
> video of actual ambush:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How the USMC adapted their tactics following this:
> View attachment 841666
> 
> View attachment 841667



That maybe the case, I am not doubting it to be a bad move in an enemy territory. But Russian military is not stupid, they won't do this where there is possibility of ambush and air attacks. More likely than not they are doing it in areas where they are absolutely sure that they in control and there is little to zero risk. I wouldn't believe the lying western media propaganda.

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## Apollon

Bengal71 said:


> That maybe the case, I am not doubting it to be a bad move in an enemy territory. But Russian military is not stupid, they won't do this where there is possibility of ambush and air attacks. More likely than not they are doing it in areas where they are absolutely sure that they in control and there is little to zero risk. I wouldn't believe the lying western media propaganda.



You dont need too. I have friends in Ukraine who say russian military acts like retards. Bad training, lack of communication ect.


----------



## -=virus=-

Apollon said:


> You dont need too. I have friends in Ukraine who say russian military acts like retards. Bad training, lack of communication ect.


Hope you told them you love them, next Grad barrage will probably wipe them out


----------



## Apollon

-=virus=- said:


> Hope you told them you love them, next Grad barrage will probably wipe them out



Doubtful. Russia is pushed out there. 😁👍


Btw a very good target for 9th may is the bridge build by russia to crimea. 


Im quite sure we see a russian prime target go down in next days

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## -=virus=-

Apollon said:


> Doubtful. Russia is pushed out there. 😁👍
> 
> 
> Btw a very good target for 9th may is the bridge build by russia to crimea.
> 
> 
> Im quite sure we see a russian prime target go down in next days


We'll find out, Marcus


----------



## Oldman1




----------



## WotTen

Apollon said:


> You dont need too. I have friends in Ukraine who say russian military acts like retards. Bad training, lack of communication ect.



Dude, these 'Ukrainians' are probably posting from a McDonalds in Kansas City.

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## Apollon

WotTen said:


> Dude, these 'Ukrainians' are probably posting from a McDonalds in Kansas City.
> 
> View attachment 841681



Doubt. I got fossils from him and he clearly shipped from Ukraine.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Apollon said:


> Fun fact, Hungary and Slovakia combimed have less people than city of Paris.
> 
> 
> By making excemptions to small countries the EU as a whole can introduce harsh sanctions without remorse.



Population of Hungary: *9,615,341*
Population of Slovakia: *5.49 Million*
Population of Paris: *2.14 millio*n

Wait, countries (Hungary and Slovakia) with a combined population of 15.11 million people have less population than the city of Paris that only has 2.14 million people? That is a new kind of math that has never been taught in schools before? 

Or perhaps it is just another proof that Russia haters like to exaggerate, create own numbers, and just throw wild claims out there with no fact checks considered. That is what people should understand about their bogus casualty numbers on Russia and their never proven 20 or so generals they claim killed in this conflict. Enough.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522888217326157824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522853902101667842

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522850295331659778

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## KAL-EL

-=virus=- said:


> We'll find out, Marcus



Wasn't Marcus an Italian supremacist?


----------



## Vergennes

Desperation maybe lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522889797320298501


----------



## -=virus=-

KAL-EL said:


> Wasn't Marcus in Italian supremacist?


Yeah.. same guy

used to troll here often few years ago


----------



## KAL-EL

-=virus=- said:


> Yeah.. same guy
> 
> used to troll here often few years ago



Yeah, I remember. He was quite the lightning rod with quite a few here.

He was all about Roman pureblood and superiority. Or something like that anyway.

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## kingQamaR

Reports are coming out, Russian Bato Basanov was in a record-breaking tank biathlon team that performed last year in war games . Has been killed in Ukraine today what a utter waste,


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522729843456159748

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## -=virus=-

KAL-EL said:


> Yeah, I remember. He was quite the lightning rod with quite a few here.
> 
> He was all about Roman pureblood and superiority. Or something like that anyway.


Yup.. legit European ethnocentric far right

which is fine if you ask me

just that his ideas were completely retarded lol


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522862359534096385

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522860149559504896

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522843089626349568

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522671253882081282


----------



## beast89

Wagner mercs in steelworks


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522632087492341762

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522879347543007232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522822946644918272

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522814624369758209


----------



## Viet

Apollon said:


> Finally Putins private 700 million yacht was seized by Italy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine war: Italy orders seizure of yacht worth $700m linked by media to Vladimir Putin
> 
> 
> The Italian finance ministry said in a statement that investigations showed the owner of the boat had ties to "prominent elements of the Russian government" and with people targeted by EU sanctions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


$700 million, wow, that’s massive.
Putin knows how to live in luxury with monies he earns in oil selling.
Italy can sell the yacht and give the money to Ukraine.

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## Vergennes

Viet said:


> $700 million, wow, that’s massive.
> Putin knows how to live in luxury with monies he earns in oil selling.
> Italy can sell the yacht and give the money to Ukraine.



Incredible how Russia is such a rich country with massive natural ressources yet its population so poor. Speaks of the massive corruption and how rogue and opaque this country is.

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## kingQamaR

Torpedo it


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522897513937838081

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522902876170985472

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Wood

How is trench warfare possible in the age of guided artillery and loitering ammunition?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522923005747372032
Likely M777 with Excalibur

Reactions: Like Like:
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2 | Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522909516790218752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522824308166475776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522824620885385218

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522825503174008832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522900266135298048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522889808204472321

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522885005004922880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522869493906747398

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522864204168024064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522864897951948800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522870763023437824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522860248817618947

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522922357630898177

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522921270744174598

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522919504057090050

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522920978275356675

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522847480869752835

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522848784648179712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522823200165482496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522863717607690240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522868291286487040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522868711836856323

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522920528536907777

Reactions: Love Love:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522888742788337665

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522890936803549185

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522910311015198720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522902889315897344

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522908361154510850

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522918258378166276


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522859446409564160

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522920528536907777



Ukrainian Su-25 are outdated and lacks the modern electronics Russian Su-25 have. Russian Su-25 are upgraded to SM3 standard which has thermal and digital computerized automatic targeting.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522928288431288322

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522929632592465920

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522847440529162245

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522824135172263936

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522818017393926145

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522814624369758209

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522813458432937989

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522803738213158913

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522553360116817920

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522908193852121088


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522803097960992768

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522801718076997638

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522798690280214528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522734606939680768

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

Reports come in Ukraine Starts tonpush Russia back from Kharkov enough that the city is out of russian artillery reach.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522865522379010048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522877049114927106

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> Reports come in Ukraine Starts tonpush Russia back from Kharkov enough that the city is out of russian artillery reach.



Kharkov is 20 km from Russian border. Russian artillery such as Malka and Smerch can attack Kharkov from Russian soil.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522855223085211651


----------



## RoadAmerica

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Russia Military is waiting for NATO and the US to despatch their soldiers to Ukraine.
> 
> And that will probably not happened but a prolong civil war is ensured.
> 
> After the Eastern Provinces are secured, the fighting may raged on in central and Western Ukraine.
> But Russia may stayed put in the breakaway provinces and only provide air and missile supports when they are needed like what they did in Syria.
> 
> This is when the Syrian Mercenaries will entered the war.
> 
> Ukraine will never be the same again.
> 
> Putin is indeed a Master Chess Player if what I observed is true.
> 
> It is Checkmate.


What novel are you reading?
Biolab hidden, American general directing the war underground using secret coms.
Dude get a grip on reality


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522919475531718656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522931622089306112

Reactions: Like Like:
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## dBSPL

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522859446409564160


Zelensky is very uncomfortable with Turkey's relations with Russia. Last week, he went too far and said that Turkey had to make a choice. Now, despite all the warnings, Ukraine army have started to broadcast their UAV footage with open datas, again. They know very well that they are manipulating the Russian side within their vulnerability to these tactical UAVs.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522848747608317952


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522882930657398784

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Get Ya Wig Split

From Jordan to Japan: US invites 14 non-NATO nations to Ukraine defense summit








From Jordan to Japan: US invites 14 non-NATO nations to Ukraine defense summit - Breaking Defense


Over 40 nations were invited to attend, according to a list reviewed by Breaking Defense. For some, like Finland and Sweden, Ukraine's fate is intertwined with their own, but for others from Africa, the US could be sending a signal all the way to Beijing.




breakingdefense.com





The gang is getting bigger and bigger and that's how we like it.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522913509864091648

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522877987070357507
After the Russian radar and air defense systems on the island were hit, the Russians tried to make a second supply to the island, but these were also destroyed, just before installations. Despite the Russian navy and air defense systems, they missed to protect their assets for the second time against the TB-2 supported 'tiny' air operation.

Meanwhile the Russian Black Sea navy lost its status as the superior naval power in the region, having suffered extraordinary losses, including a flagship cruiser Moskva and its two most modern frigates, along with many tank landing, troop carrier and marine special op boats.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522928761209253888
The #Ukrainian _ army attempted a counter-attack in the area of the village of #Vovodovka, "the attack was thwarted and the command center of the #Ukrainian military operations in the area was destroyed.




Spoiler: Graphic



https://twitter.com/khalediskef/status/1522702138597679104

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522883915291185153

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522886241796169729

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522880023539113984


----------



## The SC

Bayraktar TB-2 drone shot down.. According to the battery commander, the target was destroyed at a distance of 18 km.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522855447258148866

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CAPRICORN-88

RoadAmerica said:


> What novel are you reading?
> Biolab hidden, American general directing the war underground using secret coms.
> Dude get a grip on reality



We see after all, these speculations among others will be corroborated once Azovstal Steel work is completely secured by the DNR militia. 
I did not invent the story. 
No motivation to do that. Not my war. 
Thr Ukrainian can killed themselves for all we care. Just don't disrupt our life. 

*And the one who laugh last will be the one who laugh the best. *

After all the Americans who advise others to have a grip on reality is in fact surviving on borrowed money and debt. 

*And that is the reality that they are still denying today. *


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522882090710220800


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

*The Ukrianians have promised us huge fireworks in Moscow during the May 9, 2022 parade. *

I am looking forward to see Ukrainian keep their promises. 

In failing, it will be all just PROPAGANDA as usual.

Just one day away.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

*The May 9, 2022 celebration will be held LIVE. *

Zalensky! Ukraine!!

Kindly show to us how invincible Ukraine is and what you have.

*This is one golden opportunity to prove to the whole world instead of posting 10,000 tweets. *

Fired the incredible neptune missiles at them since Ukraine claimed that they are so incredibly stealthy and have successful sank the Moskva and hit a frigate.

Prove it to all the non believers once and for all.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522959675335102465


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Meanwhile Boris Johnson Tories has just lost hundreds of seats in UK local election.

Is this a good or bad news for Zalensky?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *The May 9, 2022 celebration will be held LIVE. *
> 
> Zalensky! Ukraine!!
> 
> Kindly show to us how invincible Ukraine is and what you have.
> 
> *This is one golden opportunity to prove to the whole world instead of posting 10,000 tweets. *
> 
> Fired the incredible neptune missiles at them since Ukraine claimed that they are so incredibly stealthy and have successful sank the Moskva and hit a frigate.
> 
> Prove it to all the non believers once and for all.




Ukraine doesn’t have the long range fires capability to strike Moscow. 

Stop acting like a clown and inhale some copium. Russia is getting destroyed in Ukraine, and the US doesn’t have to send a single soldier to do it.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522905777152966660

Russia is at serious risk of being destroyed at Izyum

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Meanwhile Boris Johnson Tories has just lost hundreds of seats in UK local election.
> 
> Is this a good or bad news for Zalensky?



Bad. Labor is anti war. Conservative is pro war.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

The Russian soldiers are not the one doing the real battle. 
It is the militia of the DNR and the Chechens.

To my knowledge, the Russian forces are the one encircling these districts and act like peacekeepers after the DNR militia finished mopping up the Ukrainian AZOV neo-NAZI forces.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522905777152966660
> 
> Russia is at serious risk of being destroyed at Izyum



So far Ukrainians have been over running some empty tiny villages. Let's see how they do with a big city like Izyum.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Bad. Labor is anti war. Conservative is pro war.


So it is bad joss for Zalensky.

Confirming the fact that nobody like war.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522915074784043012

The Russian military is an absolute disgrace. The deserve complete and absolute destruction.

Reactions: Sad Sad:
1 | Angry Angry:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522936175127932931


CAPRICORN-88 said:


> So it is bad joss for Zalensky.
> 
> Confirming the fact that nobody like war.



War is profitable for military industrial complex. That's why Labor hates war.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88



Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522939038159671296


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522704417518149646


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522917971081011204

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522875438099542021


----------



## StraightEdge

Americans, as always so predictable 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522573338815520768


----------



## Apollon

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522915074784043012
> 
> The Russian military is an absolute disgrace. The deserve complete and absolute destruction.



Rape and murder was always what their army did. Its a common thing in their history.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522973538822598657

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522935171334483972

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

StraightEdge said:


> Americans, as always so predictable
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522573338815520768



I prefer to spend for Ukraine than for food aid for india.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522961256361115648


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522961256361115648



It's a good strategy on the part of the Russians. They drag it out into a Hundred Years War. The media frenzy in the West dies down. People in the West don't care about Ukraine civil war anymore.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522909516790218752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522930098428469248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522980137230381057

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522979476447055873

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522685576792657925

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522685581423222786

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522685584396935170

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522685587270033408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522685590147325967

Reactions: Like Like:
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## DF41

Huffal said:


> Ayo why are people suddenly feeling sorry for Serbia during the NATO attack? Have they forgotten what those evil pos did to the Bosnians? Literal genocide?



Now we seen how USA lied about their involvement in Ukraine and the way USA are now framing Russia, I now discount the stuff USA fed us on Serbia and Bosnia conflicts.

We seen how USA tried to engineered Xinjiang troubles and troubles in Hongkong and the lies USA and Western media spun and spun.

As way to USA going about making regime changes for the sole benefit of USA and USA arms industry.

*NOTHING EVER BY USA CAN EVER BE TRUSTED AS THEY ALL BUNCH OF SCHEMING CROOKS. WE ALL SHOULD PRAY USA SPIRAL INTO BANKRUPTCY AND UNABLE TO SPREAD EVIL AND CHAOS INTO THE WORLD*

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522972844174372864


----------



## Clutch

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraine doesn’t have the long range fires capability to strike Moscow.
> 
> Stop acting like a clown and inhale some copium. Russia is getting destroyed in Ukraine, and the US doesn’t have to send a single soldier to do it.



They can use the American Suicide Drones Switchblade...

Just need to seek them close enough into Russian territory. If the Yemeni can, the Ukrainian can.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Clutch said:


> They can use the American Suicide Drones Switchblade...
> 
> Just need to seek them close enough into Russian territory. If the Yemeni can, the Ukrainian can.



Switchblade is a toy. It cannot have an impact.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522860225690230784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522946393471655937

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522949026689449984

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522916198568050688


----------



## yuba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522915074784043012
> 
> The Russian military is an absolute disgrace. The deserve complete and absolute destruction.


It is going bad for them so they raping women and boys dirty bastards

Reactions: Sad Sad:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522958332692246529

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522697987201413130

Russian Spetsnaz night operations compilation​


----------



## Wood

Clutch said:


> They can use the American Suicide Drones Switchblade...
> 
> Just need to seek them close enough into Russian territory. If the Yemeni can, the Ukrainian can.


Think the switch blades have only few miles of range?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522968304356564992

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Vergennes said:


> Incredible how Russia is such a rich country with massive natural ressources yet its population so poor. Speaks of the massive corruption and how rogue and opaque this country is.


Rich country poor people. The problem is the leadership. Putin makes few rich. for the rest he doesn’t care. His ergo is bigger than their misery. The next EU sanctions packet on oil will make all russians poor. 30 percent of gov budget comes from oil revenues. How will Putin compensate the loss? Selling Far East to China? Like selling Alaska to America?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## kingQamaR

Viet said:


> Rich country poor people. The problem is the leadership. Putin makes few rich. for the rest he doesn’t care. His ergo is bigger than their misery. The next EU sanctions packet on oil will make all russians poor. 30 percent of gov budget comes from oil revenues. How will Putin compensate the loss? Selling Far East to China? Like selling Alaska to America?



Too bad no one in Russia feels their own country is worth fighting for or Putin would have a boot stuck in his *** and a bullet to the back of his brain by now.


----------



## Flight of falcon

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522915074784043012
> 
> The Russian military is an absolute disgrace. The deserve complete and absolute destruction.





Humm few unsubstantiated claims vs rape as a war strategy.....










American Rape of Vietnamese Women was Considered "Standard Operating Procedure”


Comparing testimony from Vietnamese women and American soldiers, Gina Marie Weaver, in her book Ideologies of Forgetting: Rape in The Vietnam War, finds




www.counterpunch.org









__





Sexualized Violence Against Iraqi Women By US Occupying Forces | United Nations | Meaningful World


A Briefing Paper OF INTERNATIONAL EDUCATIONAL DEVELOPMENT Prepared by Kristen McNutt, Researcher, Association of Humanitarian Lawyers Presented to The United Nations Commission on Human Rights 2005 Session March Geneva Contact: ied@igc.org Iraqi female detainees have been illegally detained...




meaningfulworld.com

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522997498515648512
The Russian Defense announces the completion of the evacuation operations from Mariupol
@AsharqNewsBrk



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522955891309428736


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Situation in Severodonetsk is DESPERATE for the Ukrainian armed forces there. It is too late for them


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523021313375408128


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523016654484951041

Reactions: Like Like:
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## JK!

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Bad. Labor is anti war. Conservative is pro war.



1. These were local Council elections not national elections for Parliament.

2. It was a labour government that was in power for war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

3. The general feeling in the UK is that Boris’ performance with regards to Ukraine is the only positive thing about his premiership.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523016654484951041



Look at their faces and you see their level...


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522987750538031105

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522925393157763073

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522976501645418496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522141686050304001

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

Apollon said:


> Look at their faces and you see their level...



Russian elites do everything to avoid the army,majority of the russian army isn't composed of high IQs.... lot of poors/uneducated and minorities.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522701912575037441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522957848824717314

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522967687390932993

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

Vergennes said:


> Russian elites do everything to avoid the army,majority of the russian army isn't composed of high IQs.... lot of poors/uneducated and minorities.


High IQ and competent military generals are the natural enemy for totalitarian dictators. They cannot be allowed to exist

Reactions: Like Like:
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## JK!

No matter what side you’re posting from my thanks to the various members sharing news from twitter and other sources here

It’s more useful for me to come here than a UK news source as the bias and propaganda is unreal and in overdrive. At least I can get some idea of the situation here.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523005424517058563

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522957596327432192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522859728858193920


----------



## Apollon

Vergennes said:


> Russian elites do everything to avoid the army,majority of the russian army isn't composed of high IQs.... lot of poors/uneducated and minorities.




Analysts here say eussians are born as slaves, live as slaves and die as slaves since 13th century. Fiest Czarist tyranny, then communism, now putinism, the individual has zero value.


The elite stole evrything and lived in europe. Thats the only positive thing, now they have to live in the shithole they created


----------



## Vergennes

LMAO


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523027490230444035

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522586801503932420

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523010669570031617

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523002826686967808

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522940184765075456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522997498515648512

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523031129963458560

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523033903791063040

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
2


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522989253432590338

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511384933654224896


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522586801503932420



China's firepower makes Russia's firepower look like a joke. Taiwan would be obliterated. And if America dares to intervene, China will sink every American aircraft carrier that comes even close to Taiwan strait.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523037373692399616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523037761762217987

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523038876381687808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523039159736160256


----------



## PakFactor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522989253432590338
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511384933654224896



Yup. Some pretty nice videos on his channel.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523024100934909952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522685481317810176


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ukraine says all women and children now evacuated from Mariupol steel mill


Zelensky said more than 300 civilians had been rescued from the plant, and authorities would now focus on evacuating the wounded and medics




www.theglobeandmail.com






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523037492320030720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523043886121504768


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522999899331170305

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522993212683657217

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522983173768224768

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522859236082044929

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523030837973106688

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523048322872750082

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522983043610292224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523021313375408128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522994543230164992


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522914421944823808


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522916986547851266

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Rana4pak

Historically this fight is between Russian,Ukrainian and polish…Ukrainian always victims of poles and Russian..now America is playing a big role in destruction of Ukraine 🇺🇦..current crisis is started after 2012 euro uefa cup after illegal removal of 
Viktor Yanukovyc*h.*​

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523044747371499520


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523027866841419776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522651092844171270

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522940184765075456
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522997498515648512


First the Russians said he was dead, then he said he ran away, then they said he was dead a second time, now they're saying this.

At this point, the Russians have proven their narratives shouldn't just be believed on good faith, because the Russians have shown they lack good faith.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523027866841419776
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522651092844171270


Kadyrov and has tiktok brigade have been extremely disappointing, to the point of being jokes.

There's plenty of evidence to suggest that a lot of the areas that Clowndyrov claims the Chechens cleared of Ukrainian forces were in fact cleared by regular Russian forces, and Clowndyrov is just taking credit. His clownlike behavior is so much that his army of clowns filmed themselves fake-clearing already cleared areas.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Flight of falcon

That Guy said:


> First the Russians said he was dead, then he said he ran away, then they said he was dead a second time, now they're saying this.
> 
> At this point, the Russians have proven their narratives shouldn't just be believed on good faith, because the Russians have shown they lack good faith.
> 
> 
> Kadyrov and has tiktok brigade have been extremely disappointing, to the point of being jokes.
> 
> There's plenty of evidence to suggest that a lot of the areas that Clowndyrov claims the Chechens cleared of Ukrainian forces were in fact cleared by regular Russian forces, and Clowndyrov is just taking credit. His clownlike behavior is so much that his army of clowns filmed themselves fake-clearing already cleared areas.




Any Fkn idiot from Canada who goes out to fight for another country should be locked up upon return and declare a terrorist. We don't need these Nazi supporters on our streets.

I strongly support that any dual Canadian Israeli passports holder who joins IDF should be treated as a terrorist just like any Arab will be for joining Hamas.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523058183723532293

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523058093663399936


----------



## nufix

That Guy said:


> First the Russians said he was dead, then he said he ran away, then they said he was dead a second time, now they're saying this.
> 
> At this point, the Russians have proven their narratives shouldn't just be believed on good faith, because the Russians have shown they lack good faith.
> 
> 
> Kadyrov and has tiktok brigade have been extremely disappointing, to the point of being jokes.
> 
> There's plenty of evidence to suggest that a lot of the areas that Clowndyrov claims the Chechens cleared of Ukrainian forces were in fact cleared by regular Russian forces, and Clowndyrov is just taking credit. His clownlike behavior is so much that his army of clowns filmed themselves fake-clearing already cleared areas.



Ok now I am confused. I thought the narrative is that Russia is sending ethnic minorities like the Chechens to do the fighting for the Russians because the Russians are incompetent bunch and the loss of Russians will tip the political support for Putin back home? 

But now it is the Russians that are doing the fighting? So that means that Russia is not really sending ethnic minorities only to the frontline right?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## That Guy

nufix said:


> Ok now I am confused. I thought the narrative is that Russia is sending ethnic minorities like the Chechens to do the fighting for the Russians because the Russians are incompetent bunch and the loss of Russians will tip the political support for Putin back home?
> 
> But now it is the Russians that are doing the fighting? So that means that Russia is not really sending ethnic minorities only to the frontline right?


I don't know who you heard that from, but that was never my narrative.

I've been fairly consistent from the beginning.

The Russians may be incompetent at war, but their soldiers are doing the heavy lifting.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

nufix said:


> Ok now I am confused. I thought the narrative is that Russia is sending ethnic minorities like the Chechens to do the fighting for the Russians because the Russians are incompetent bunch and the loss of Russians will tip the political support for Putin back home?
> 
> But now it is the Russians that are doing the fighting? So that means that Russia is not really sending ethnic minorities only to the frontline right?



Chechens are just as Russian as anyone born in Moscow. Russia does not document race the way Canada and the US documents race such as White and Black. In Russia if you speak Russian you can identify as ethnic Russian.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523075455154221056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523049334534643712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523052734722707456


----------



## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523062387267588098




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523064083926630402


----------



## Hakikat ve Hikmet

This war has proved the veracity of the Turkish weaponry, especially TB-2s...

TB2s alone have proved all the Russian EW to be ineffective as it is taking out their equipment at will...

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523081123777155078

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523087055051530243

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523090216403144705


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523077791822258176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523087574914326529


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523065309220933632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522986517093924868

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522996714751377409

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522892150039535616


----------



## F-22Raptor

*The Ukrainian counteroffensive northeast of Kharkiv is making significant progress and will likely advance to the Russian border in the coming days or weeks. *Russian forces may be conducting a limited withdrawal in the face of successful Ukrainian attacks and reportedly destroyed three bridges to slow the Ukrainian advance. Armies generally only destroy bridges if they have largely decided they will not attempt to cross the river in the other direction anytime soon; Russian forces are therefore unlikely to launch operations to retake the northeast outskirts of Kharkiv liberated by Ukrainian forces in the near future. Russian forces previously destroyed several bridges during their retreat from Chernihiv Oblast—as did Ukrainian forces withdrawing in the face of the Russian offensive in the initial days of the war.

This Ukrainian offensive is likely intended to push Russian forces out of artillery range of Kharkiv city and drive to the border of Russia’s Belgorod Oblast. As ISW previously forecasted, the Ukrainian counteroffensive is forcing Russian units intended for deployment elsewhere to redeploy to the Kharkiv front to halt Ukrainian attacks. Given the current rate of Ukrainian advances, Russian forces may be unable to prevent Ukrainian forces from reaching the Russian border, even with additional reinforcements. Ukrainian forces are not directly threatening Russian lines of communication to Izyum (and ISW cannot verify claims of a separate Ukrainian counteroffensive toward Izyum at this time), but the Ukrainian counteroffensive demonstrates promising Ukrainian capabilities and may set conditions for further offensive operations into northeastern Kharkiv Oblast.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523095533971283968

Things are looking bleak for Russia in the Kharkiv region

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522969235298955264


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> *The Ukrainian counteroffensive northeast of Kharkiv is making significant progress and will likely advance to the Russian border in the coming days or weeks. *Russian forces may be conducting a limited withdrawal in the face of successful Ukrainian attacks and reportedly destroyed three bridges to slow the Ukrainian advance. Armies generally only destroy bridges if they have largely decided they will not attempt to cross the river in the other direction anytime soon; Russian forces are therefore unlikely to launch operations to retake the northeast outskirts of Kharkiv liberated by Ukrainian forces in the near future. Russian forces previously destroyed several bridges during their retreat from Chernihiv Oblast—as did Ukrainian forces withdrawing in the face of the Russian offensive in the initial days of the war.
> 
> This Ukrainian offensive is likely intended to push Russian forces out of artillery range of Kharkiv city and drive to the border of Russia’s Belgorod Oblast. As ISW previously forecasted, the Ukrainian counteroffensive is forcing Russian units intended for deployment elsewhere to redeploy to the Kharkiv front to halt Ukrainian attacks. Given the current rate of Ukrainian advances, Russian forces may be unable to prevent Ukrainian forces from reaching the Russian border, even with additional reinforcements. Ukrainian forces are not directly threatening Russian lines of communication to Izyum (and ISW cannot verify claims of a separate Ukrainian counteroffensive toward Izyum at this time), but the Ukrainian counteroffensive demonstrates promising Ukrainian capabilities and may set conditions for further offensive operations into northeastern Kharkiv Oblast.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523095533971283968
> 
> Things are looking bleak for Russia in the Kharkiv region



I think it would be suicidal for them to get close to the Russian border.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523090624261783552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523085878356111361


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523073579830501377


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523084250047606784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523098936885477376


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523021564765110272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523033033477005312

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523084250047606784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523104154410897408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523102292051853312


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523073579830501377



True, but Russia can depopulate Odessa by cruise missile strikes. Odessa's population will probably half over the next few years.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523097995398434816


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## srshkmr

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522892150039535616


Netflix watching closely

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522908975817179136

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523099703637909504


----------



## Wood

Seems like a rational analysis of Putin's view from the political scientist Ivan Krastev


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## RescueRanger

The left and right breast pocket badges read:

'cannon fodder' and 'I'll die in mysterious circumstances'

Sums up the Russian military perfectly if you ask me 😂.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523103461188939777


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## Clutch

Clutch said:


> They can use the American Suicide Drones Switchblade...





Tai Hai Chen said:


> Switchblade is a toy. It cannot have an impact.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522860225690230784
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522946393471655937



It would be a psychological victory for Ukraine if the attack the parade in Moscow versus some tactical one.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Clutch said:


> It would be a psychological victory for Ukraine if the attack the parade in Moscow versus some tactical one.



Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. If they do that, it would be suicidal.


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## RescueRanger

The Russians at this point can’t even lie properly 😂











😂🤣

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523090542900355073


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## DF41



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## Clutch

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. If they do that, it would be suicidal.



I think Russia has thrown everything they can conventionally at Ukraine already: over 30% of their military 12 Generals over 3000 tanks .... If Russia goes unconventional; it will be suicidal for them.


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## DF41

Tai Hai Chen said:


> China's firepower makes Russia's firepower look like a joke. Taiwan would be obliterated. And if America dares to intervene, China will sink every American aircraft carrier that comes even close to Taiwan strait.


Taiwan will not be obliterated, but Taiwan will be back with China and that lesbian Japanese bitch Tsai will be dangling on piano wire under a lamp post together with all other traitors and that be carried out by those in Taiwan.

Any USA carrier once west of 3rd Island chain will be known, tracked and targeted.

Non of the USA carriers can even hope to get west of 2nd Island Chain before they be pumped full of hell fire from end to end , and side to side. It will no longer be relevant to USA sailors if their carriers still floating and not sinking.

Non of the air bases, naval bases and command centers in Japan and Okinawa and Guam or any others within the 2nd island chain will exist other than fragments of memories.


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## Apollon

Rana4pak said:


> Historically this fight is between Russian,Ukrainian and polish…Ukrainian always victims of poles and Russian..now America is playing a big role in destruction of Ukraine 🇺🇦..current crisis is started after 2012 euro uefa cup after illegal removal of
> Viktor Yanukovyc*h.*​



He was not removed, he ran away and left the country. He removed himself.


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## MajesticPug

Clutch said:


> I think Russia has thrown everything they can conventionally at Ukraine already: over 30% of their military 12 Generals over 3000 tanks .... If Russia goes unconventional; it will be suicidal for them.



And not you? What sort of conventional sanctions and supports can you throw Ukraine's way? Enlighten me...


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## Rana4pak

Apollon said:


> He was not removed, he ran away and left the country. He removed himself.


You have no idea about Ukraine real problems . I lived and study there ..I know what’s going on between Russian and Ukrainian speaking peoples..I know how west n nato install puppet in Ukraine.I know in 2011 their will be a fight between Russia and amer in Ukraine… but overall its Ukraine politics which destroys himself ..

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## CAPRICORN-88

Rana4pak said:


> You have no idea about Ukraine real problems . I lived and study there ..I know what’s going on between Russian and Ukrainian speaking peoples..I know how west n nato install puppet in Ukraine.I know in 2011 their will be a fight between Russia and amer in Ukraine… but overall its Ukraine politics which destroys himself ..


Yes. You are right. The problem is many folks who have no idea what is going on in Ukraine esp. Donbass and Lugansk are participating likr diehard fans in a football match.

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## MajesticPug

F-22Raptor said:


> *The Ukrainian counteroffensive northeast of Kharkiv is making significant progress and will likely advance to the Russian border in the coming days or weeks. *Russian forces may be conducting a limited withdrawal in the face of successful Ukrainian attacks and reportedly destroyed three bridges to slow the Ukrainian advance. Armies generally only destroy bridges if they have largely decided they will not attempt to cross the river in the other direction anytime soon; Russian forces are therefore unlikely to launch operations to retake the northeast outskirts of Kharkiv liberated by Ukrainian forces in the near future. Russian forces previously destroyed several bridges during their retreat from Chernihiv Oblast—as did Ukrainian forces withdrawing in the face of the Russian offensive in the initial days of the war.
> 
> This Ukrainian offensive is likely intended to push Russian forces out of artillery range of Kharkiv city and drive to the border of Russia’s Belgorod Oblast. As ISW previously forecasted, the Ukrainian counteroffensive is forcing Russian units intended for deployment elsewhere to redeploy to the Kharkiv front to halt Ukrainian attacks. Given the current rate of Ukrainian advances, Russian forces may be unable to prevent Ukrainian forces from reaching the Russian border, even with additional reinforcements. Ukrainian forces are not directly threatening Russian lines of communication to Izyum (and ISW cannot verify claims of a separate Ukrainian counteroffensive toward Izyum at this time), but the Ukrainian counteroffensive demonstrates promising Ukrainian capabilities and may set conditions for further offensive operations into northeastern Kharkiv Oblast.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523095533971283968
> 
> Things are looking bleak for Russia in the Kharkiv region


These apes believe the Russians will not push back or annihilate whatever the Ukrainian forces have with tactical nuclear weapons. _What if Russians do?_ American, British, French forces will join the fight using '*conventional*' weapons, or *NUCLEAR*? What a bunch of idiots. Nobody, _no international treaty says small tactical nuclear weapon cannot be used against enemy military forces_. US was the only country that used atomic weapons, *twice*, against civilians non-discriminatorily. US *also *got the honor of the only country that uses chemical weapons against civilians in Vietnam. *Now the US is going to tell Russia not to use tactical weapons when its existence threatened*? Anyone with a brain can think what's going to happen. All for what? The f******* bank accounts of Lockheed and Biden and the senators?


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## Rana4pak

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Yes. You are right. The problem is many folks who have no idea what is going on in Ukraine esp. Donbass and Lugansk are participating likr diehard fans in a football match.


Bro it’s like old drama serials since centuries Russian Ukrainian and polish speaking peoples fighting with each other there but Ukrainian are always victims of Russian and polish.. now Russian and ukranian are fighting but polish are fumming the fire later they will show their face and Jews are mostly with Ukrainian and polish but overall Ukraine peoples are suffering

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## Apollon

Rana4pak said:


> You have no idea about Ukraine real problems . I lived and study there ..I know what’s going on between Russian and Ukrainian speaking peoples..I know how west n nato install puppet in Ukraine.I know in 2011 their will be a fight between Russia and amer in Ukraine… but overall its Ukraine politics which destroys himself ..



I ask you, what can russia offer to Ukraine? Russia is a miserable country with zero chance to develop positive for its population. Do you not ask yourself why Ukraine and others orientate themself on EU and why Russia is so unattractive?


If you understand this, you understand whats going on. 


Ukraine wanted closer relations with EU. The moscow puppet pulled back his signature in last day on order of putler. This started demonstrations. In end moscows muppet ran away


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## Rana4pak

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Yes. You are right. The problem is many folks who have no idea what is going on in Ukraine esp. Donbass and Lugansk are participating likr diehard fans in a football match.


People of lughansk and donetsk love victor yanukovich bcz he is resident of donetsk ..he is Russian speaking


----------



## Apollon

MajesticPug said:


> These apes believe the Russians will not push back or annihilate whatever the Ukrainian forces have with tactical nuclear weapons. _What if Russians do?_ American, British, French forces will join the fight using '*conventional*' weapons, or *NUCLEAR*? What a bunch of idiots. Nobody, _no international treaty says small tactical nuclear weapon cannot be used against enemy military forces_. US was the only country that used atomic weapons, *twice*, against civilians non-discriminatorily. US *also *got the honor of the only country that uses chemical weapons against civilians in Vietnam. *Now the US is going to tell Russia not to use tactical weapons when its existence threatened*? Anyone with a brain can think what's going to happen. All for what? The f******* bank accounts of Lockheed and Biden and the senators?



😅 What bullshit. 


The Moment Russia uses tactical nukes is the moment russia ceases to exist as a country. Its that simple.



Rana4pak said:


> People of lughansk and donetsk love victor yanukovich bcz he is resident of donetsk ..he is Russian speaking



Then he should have run as mayor of Donetsk and Lughansk and not as president, since he is hated in pretty much all of Ukraine.


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## Rana4pak

Apollon said:


> I ask you, what can russia offer to Ukraine? Russia is a miserable country with zero chance to develop positive for its population. Do you not ask yourself why Ukraine and others orientate themself on EU and why Russia is so unattractive?
> 
> 
> If you understand this, you understand whats going on.
> 
> 
> Ukraine wanted closer relations with EU. The moscow puppet pulled back his signature in last day on order of putler. This started demonstrations. In end moscows muppet ran away


their is difference between eu and nato….all the problems in Ukraine is bcz of *NATO*.



Rana4pak said:


> People of lughansk and donetsk love victor yanukovich bcz he is resident of donetsk ..he is Russian speaking


That zelensky should run as mayor of Kiev only bcz mostly Jews are only their


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## CAPRICORN-88

*Take Wali the resurrected Canadian sniper whom the West accredited for the killing of a Russian General. *

At an interview over Canadian TV, he admitted he did not killed any Russian General as propagated in social media and West News Media but instead seen how fellow Ukrainian comrade in arm got killed. 
His Javelin ATGM could not even hit any Russian Tank as they were out of sight and range. 
But the Russian Tank with their infrared hit them with deadly precision killing his two comrades. 
He admitted US and NATO supplied arms are useless against Russia. He added the US and Canadian should send in ground troops instead.

He became completely disillusioned after his bitter experience and regretted joining the war. 
He joined the mercenaries to fight Russia without understanding what was all about?

If he ever returned to Ukraine, it will not as a soldier but as humanitarian worker. 

They spotted a Swastika Tattoo on his body meaning he belongs to a Nazi group in Canada. 

Russian disinformation. This is over the air in Canada. 

Straight from the horse mouth.


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## Soldier35

The Russian ZRPC "Pantsir-S1" shot down a Ukrainian UAV "Bayraktar" at a distance of 18 km. The UAV "Bayraktar" of the AFU carried 4 missiles that did not detonate and did not explode. The missiles were seized for examination.






A massive strike by the Russian heavy multiple launch rocket system "Smerch" on the deployment area of the S-300 air defense system of Ukraine, led to an accurate hit in one of the installations of the S-300 air defense system and a powerful explosion of its missiles.






There was a video of the work of PMCs Wagner in Ukraine. Soldiers of the private Russian military company Wagner, using the MT-12 Rapier anti-tank gun and the AGS-17 Flame 30 mm automatic grenade launcher, methodically destroy the fortified positions of the Ukrainian army.

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## MajesticPug

Apollon said:


> 😅 What bullshit.
> 
> 
> The Moment Russia uses tactical nukes is the moment russia ceases to exist as a country. Its that simple.
> 
> 
> 
> Then he should have run as mayor of Donetsk and Lughansk and not as president, since he is hated in pretty much all of Ukraine.



And you will be intact? I thought Greeks are smart.


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## Viet

Ukraine army wants to retake Cherson.









Ukraine-Liveblog zum Nachlesen: ++ Weitere Evakuierte erreichen Saporischschja ++


Busse mit Evakuierten auch aus dem Stahlwerk in Mariupol haben die Stadt Saporischschja erreicht. Ukrainische Behörden melden mehrere tote Zivilisten im Gebiet Charkiw. Die Entwicklungen von Sonntag zum Nachlesen im Liveblog.




www.tagesschau.de










Weiß schraffiert: Vormarsch der russischen Armee. Grün schraffiert: von Russland unterstützte Separatistengebiete. Krim: von Russland annektiert. Bild: ISW

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## Apollon

Rana4pak said:


> their is difference between eu and nato….all the problems in Ukraine is bcz of *NATO*.
> 
> 
> That zelensky should run as mayor of Kiev only bcz mostly Jews are only their



No, all problems in Ukraine are because Russian imperialism. I fixed it for you. 


Glad you agree though that Russia has absolute nothing to offer for the people of Ukraine.


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## RescueRanger

so are the rumours of Vali and a few other Canadians bugging out of Ukraine true? Can’t find any reliable source for this - just nonsense on telegram.

Anyone have a recording of his interview to Canadian News Channel ?

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## Apollon

MajesticPug said:


> And you will be intact? I thought Greeks are smart.



Lets hope Russia has a few brain cells left and accepts defeat. There is no nuclear option for Russia. The moment it does that would make all countries like Kazakhstan or Azerbaijan join NATO in an instant. Russias crazy decission to attack Ukraine led Sweden and Finland join NATO. 


Also keep one thing in mind. Russia is extremly divided country. If you believe nations occupied by Russia east of Ural mountains will support to propably die because Putins crazy politics, you are mistaken. There are regions where people dont even know they are part of a country called "Russia".


----------



## gambit

Bengal71 said:


> That maybe the case, I am not doubting it to be a bad move in an enemy territory. But *Russian military is not stupid*, they won't do this where there is possibility of ambush and air attacks. More likely than not they are doing it in areas where they are absolutely sure that they in control and there is little to zero risk. I wouldn't believe the lying western media propaganda.


Do not take 'dangerous' for 'good'. They are completely different and separate.

If you give a machine gun to anyone proficient with a bolt action rifle, that person will be doubly or more dangerous, but does that make him a good team member in a squad? Of course, he would be able to figure out how to use the machine gun, but the machine gun is a supporting weapon in complex tactics at the squad level. Every army differentiates between a rifleman and a machine gunner. See USMC MOS 0331 Machine Gunner specialty.

Am USAF. F-111 Cold War then F-16 Desert Storm.

The %90 opinion in the USAF is that the Russian Air Force (VKS) sucks, to be kind in speech. That does not mean the VKS is not dangerous. Its hardware are lethal enough and its individual pilots are well trained enough. But where was the 'joint' in its combat operations over Ukraine? None. But as if that was not bad enough, the Russian military lost two major ships in a land war against an opponent who have no navy. These are not marks of a military that is smart enough to use whatever it has.

The Russian military is dangerous, but it is not smart.

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## WotTen

Clutch said:


> I think Russia has thrown everything they can conventionally at Ukraine already: over 30% of their military 12 Generals over 3000 tanks .... If Russia goes unconventional; it will be suicidal for them.



I think Russia has not even scratched their conventional capability. They must always be prepared for NATO to enter the conflict directly, and retain the capacity to fight that war to negotiation without going nuclear.

If NATO ever feels that Russia's conventional capability is sufficiently degraded, it might decide to finish the job itself while gambling that Russia will not go nuclear.


----------



## WotTen

Apollon said:


> Kazakhstan or Azerbaijan join NATO



France will never allow a Muslim country to join NATO. They don't even like Turkey in NATO. They will never put Paris at risk to defend a Kazakh or Azeri half a world away.


----------



## gambit

WotTen said:


> I think Russia has not even scratched their conventional capability. They must always be prepared for NATO to enter the conflict directly, and retain the capacity to fight that war to negotiation without going nuclear.


You 'think'? What is your background that you can say, with a straight (virtual) face, that you can 'think' so?



WotTen said:


> If NATO ever feels that Russia's conventional capability is sufficiently degraded, it might decide to finish the job itself while gambling that Russia will not go nuclear.


No. If NATO assessed that the Russian military is sufficiently degraded by now, there is no need to for NATO to enter the war. Just let the Urkainians finish the job.


----------



## WotTen

gambit said:


> You 'think'? What is your background that you can say, with a straight (virtual) face, that you can 'think' so?



I base it on the second sentence right after the one you quoted. Russia must always keep its eye on NATO. For Russia, this Ukraine war is like sparring with a teenager while keeping an eye on the muscleman standing behind him.


----------



## Viet

WotTen said:


> I think Russia has not even scratched their conventional capability. They must always be prepared for NATO to enter the conflict directly, and retain the capacity to fight that war to negotiation without going nuclear.
> 
> If NATO ever feels that Russia's conventional capability is sufficiently degraded, it might decide to finish the job itself while gambling that Russia will not go nuclear.


Russia already lost 2,000 tanks and armor verhicles. By this pace Putin will run dry in few months. There will be nothing left except nukes against NATO.


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## CAPRICORN-88

*Wali the resurrected Canadian sniper added he believe Ukraine is losing the war and that is why he decided to return back to Canada. *

So how is Western News Media going to counter his confession?

By defending that his stories are all pure delusion. He is now suffering from PTSD and will needs to see a psychiatrist

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## Viet

A Ukraine tank fires at enemy position at battle of Donbas.






Ein ukrainischer Panzer bei Gefechten im Osten des Landes am 7. Mai © Serhii Nuzhnenko/Reuters


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## WotTen

gambit said:


> If NATO assessed that the Russian military is sufficiently degraded by now, there is no need to for NATO to enter the war. Just let the Urkainians finish the job.



Do you think Ukraine can decimate the Russian air force? Russia seems to be saving it for something.


----------



## RescueRanger

Russians never learn from history:

Afghanistan:





Ukraine:

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## CAPRICORN-88

I just watched another video how Ukrainian took out thr Russian T-14 tanks by a company called "Great Studio."

  

A great CG. Amusing.

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## Viet

Per Ukraine general staffs, the army retakes Oleksandrivka, Fedorivka, Ukrainka, Shestakovo, Peremoha und parts of Cherkaski Tyshky.
Russia army retreated from Charkiw. For the first time ever Putin army destroys bridges during retreat.









Ukraine-Krieg: Stahlwerk in Mariupol erneut unter Beschuss


Die Lage im Ukraine-Krieg spitzt sich weiter zu: militärisch, diplomatisch und humanitär – der News-Ticker zum Krieg am Samstag, 14. Mai.




www.fr.de

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## Type59

RescueRanger said:


> The Russians at this point can’t even lie properly 😂
> 
> View attachment 842022
> 
> 
> View attachment 842023
> 
> 
> 😂🤣



Well Russia does not operate btr-3s. Look at main gun. Russians mark captured equipment with a Z to prevent it being attacked by other Russian units.

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## Viet

The end of Russian tanks

Ukraine war marks the end of dominance of tanks on battlefields. Ukraine army can easily destroy even the most advanced, most expensive tank T90M-P3 by western made antitank missiles and drones.









Abschüsse und keine Durchbrüche – die Ukraine markiert das Ende des Kampfpanzers


Tragbare billige Waffen wie Drohnen und Abwehrraketen rauben dem Panzer seine entscheidende Wirkung auf dem Gefechtsfeld. Die technologische Wende bedroht nicht nur die russischen Panzer




www.stern.de











Auch der modernste einsatzfähige russische Panzertyp – T-90M Proryv-3 – wurde in der Ukraine bereits zerstört.
© Gavriil Grigorov/ / Picture Alliance


----------



## RescueRanger

Viet said:


> The end of Russian tanks
> 
> Ukraine can easily destroy even the most advanced most expensive tank T90M by western made antitank missiles and drones.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abschüsse und keine Durchbrüche – die Ukraine markiert das Ende des Kampfpanzers
> 
> 
> Tragbare billige Waffen wie Drohnen und Abwehrraketen rauben dem Panzer seine entscheidende Wirkung auf dem Gefechtsfeld. Die technologische Wende bedroht nicht nur die russischen Panzer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.stern.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Auch der modernste einsatzfähige russische Panzertyp – T-90M Proryv-3 – wurde in der Ukraine bereits zerstört.
> © Gavriil Grigorov/ / Picture Alliance


I don’t think this is the end of the Russian Tank. Tank warfare still has its role.

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## Viet

RescueRanger said:


> I don’t think this is the end of the Russian Tank. Tank warfare still has its role.


Yes still playing a role. However the dominance is over.

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## Broccoli

Yesterday Finnish reported woke up when Russian cruise missile hit at small village where he was sleeping. No military targets anywhere near it. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522845070994649089

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## Primus

RescueRanger said:


> The Russians at this point can’t even lie properly 😂
> 
> View attachment 842022
> 
> 
> View attachment 842023
> 
> 
> 😂🤣


UA camo pattern on the captured BTR. Its not Russian. Z is also on the drivers hatch, which wont be seen by anyone really compared to the sides and rear hull


----------



## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522908975817179136


You don't need accuracy when you shoot 4 tons of ammo

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## Paul2

Viet said:


> A Ukraine tank fires at enemy position at battle of Donbas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ein ukrainischer Panzer bei Gefechten im Osten des Landes am 7. Mai © Serhii Nuzhnenko/Reuters



That's an SPG, not a tank

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## RescueRanger

I’m all for protests but what the F is going on here: 🤣😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522998239846629376

For those wondering this is an anti putin and abortion protest combined in one 😂😅

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## Vergennes

Broccoli said:


> Yesterday Finnish reported woke up when Russian cruise missile hit at small village where he was sleeping. No military targets anywhere near it.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522845070994649089



Russians and dudes like @Hassan Al-Somal will claim they destroyed a concentration of Ukrainian nazis and foreign mercenaries destroyed 1500 tanks and killed 2 millions of them lmao.

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## LeGenD

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> The Russian soldiers are not the one doing the real battle.
> It is the militia of the DNR and the Chechens.
> 
> To my knowledge, the Russian forces are the one encircling these districts and act like peacekeepers after the DNR militia finished mopping up the Ukrainian AZOV neo-NAZI forces.


Russian troops are fighting. Others are a joke. Chechens are mostly Photo-ops.

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## Vergennes

Snake Island,such a small island but big pain and suffering for the Russians.... Such a strategic island because it could have acted as a bridgehead for a landing on Odessa and Bessarabia....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523211787776278529


LeGenD said:


> Russian troops are fighting. Others are a joke. Chechens are mostly Photo-ops.



Indeed,Russian troops do most of the fighting,chechens are only filming tiktoks and parading after the Russians did the fighting and suffered heavy casualties and after DNR/LNR suffered high casualties too because they basically act as cannon fodder. (You can tell it by the garbage equipments the Russians provide them with) LNR/DNR are just bunch of dudes who were forcibly conscripted.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523213447365894144

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## Viet

Paul2 said:


> That's an SPG, not a tank


In German, tank means panzer or Panzerung. A tank is by definition an armored verhicle with a big gun.

new Franco German tank
Euro MBT
Potentially armed with 130 or 140 gun.

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## Primus

Viet said:


> In German, tank means panzer or Panzerung. A tank is by definition an armored verhicle with a big gun.
> 
> new Franco German tank
> Euro MBT
> Potentially armed with 130 or 140 gun.


In german Panzer means Iron


----------



## LeGenD

DF41 said:


> Now we seen how USA lied about their involvement in Ukraine and the way USA are now framing Russia, I now discount the stuff USA fed us on Serbia and Bosnia conflicts.
> 
> We seen how USA tried to engineered Xinjiang troubles and troubles in Hongkong and the lies USA and Western media spun and spun.
> 
> As way to USA going about making regime changes for the sole benefit of USA and USA arms industry.
> 
> *NOTHING EVER BY USA CAN EVER BE TRUSTED AS THEY ALL BUNCH OF SCHEMING CROOKS. WE ALL SHOULD PRAY USA SPIRAL INTO BANKRUPTCY AND UNABLE TO SPREAD EVIL AND CHAOS INTO THE WORLD*



*Before* the ongoing war, Russian officials were openly rejecting claims that Russian forces will invade Ukraine:









Russian Rhetoric Ahead of Attack Against Ukraine: Deny, Deflect, Mislead - FactCheck.org


As Russia amassed troops on the Ukrainian border, Russian leaders repeatedly denied that their country had plans to invade Ukraine. They blamed the U.S., Ukraine and others for the tension, insisting that Russia is a "peaceful country" and that it is "not going to attack anyone." Here we round...




www.factcheck.org













Vladimir Putin says Russia will not invade Ukraine but sends warning to West | ITV News


Russia will not start a war in Ukraine, Vladimir Putin has said, but warned the US and Nato have left little room for compromise after ignoring his demands. | ITV National News




www.itv.com













Belarusian President Denies There Will Be an Attack on Ukraine


The Belarusian leader said that the United States' intelligence community has wrongly predicted that Russia would invade its neighbor.




nationalinterest.org





Americans had warned that Russian forces will invade Ukraine:









At UN, US warns Russia planning to attack Ukraine in 'coming days'


UNITED NATIONS: US Secretary of State Antony Blinken laid out at the United Nations Security Council on Thursday how...



www.brecorder.com













Russia could invade Ukraine next week, US warns


As tensions escalate, Biden and Putin will speak on Saturday. Read more at straitstimes.com.




www.straitstimes.com










Subscribe to read | Financial Times


News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




www.ft.com





Chinese President Xi also knew that Russian forces will invade Ukraine.









Told of Ukraine move, China asked Russia to wait until Olympics ended: sources


The closing Olympic ceremony was held on February 20 in Beijing; the Russian invasion of Ukraine started at dawn on February 24.




www.scmp.com





Which side was lying about this matter? Russia (and its regional ally Belarus).

China was silent.

Americans were right.

- - - -

Yugoslavian crackdown and subsequent massacre of Bosnians is well-documented.









Bosnian Genocide


In April 1992, the government of the Yugoslav republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina declared its independence from Yugoslavia. Over the next several years, Bosnian




www.history.com










Holocaust Museum Houston


Holocaust Museum Houston




hmh.org













Bosnia and Herzegovina, 1992–1995


The creation of an independent Bosnian nation that would have a Bosniak majority was opposed by Bosnian Serbs, who launched a military campaign to secure coveted territory and “cleanse” Bosnia of its Muslim civilian population.




www.ushmm.org













Bosnia's Srebrenica massacre 25 years on - in pictures


Bosnian Serb and Serbian units systematically murdered 8,000 Muslims at Srebrenica in July 1995.



www.bbc.com







https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/21/bosnia-genocide-denial-crisis/











Pakistan remembers 1995 Srebrenica genocide victims


‘World must not let such a massacre happen again,’ Pakistan’s prime minister says - Anadolu Agency




www.aa.com.tr





Americans were right.

- - - -

Understand this. Every side will lie (or exaggerate) when it suites its political cause. This is typical human nature.

In regards to your statement in caps, reminder from Forum Rules:

*Ethnic / political / nationalistic hate *

_Needless to say, PDF wishes to be a productive exchange of ideas and not a place of spreading communal, national, political or religiously motivated hatred. Members found involved in such activities would be severely penalized._

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## Viet

Huffal said:


> In german Panzer means Iron


No
Iron means Eisen.
You can make Eisen to Stahl (steel).
Then you turn Stahl to gehärteter Stahl (hardened steel).
From multiple layers of gehärteter Stahl you can form them to panzerung.
When I was at a Berufsschule (a German professional college) I learned in practice how to make hardened steel. No joke.

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## Basel

What I don't understand is, why China is not covertly supporting Russia like west supporting Ukraine??

This is the war where China can stop west from aggressing into Indo Pacific specially in Taiwan, US will create similar situation for China after destroying Russian military capabilities, it's right time to test modern weapons built by China in real war.

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## Ich

LeGenD said:


> *Before* the ongoing war, Russian officials were openly rejecting claims that Russian forces will invade Ukraine:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Rhetoric Ahead of Attack Against Ukraine: Deny, Deflect, Mislead - FactCheck.org
> 
> 
> As Russia amassed troops on the Ukrainian border, Russian leaders repeatedly denied that their country had plans to invade Ukraine. They blamed the U.S., Ukraine and others for the tension, insisting that Russia is a "peaceful country" and that it is "not going to attack anyone." Here we round...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.factcheck.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vladimir Putin says Russia will not invade Ukraine but sends warning to West | ITV News
> 
> 
> Russia will not start a war in Ukraine, Vladimir Putin has said, but warned the US and Nato have left little room for compromise after ignoring his demands. | ITV National News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.itv.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Belarusian President Denies There Will Be an Attack on Ukraine
> 
> 
> The Belarusian leader said that the United States' intelligence community has wrongly predicted that Russia would invade its neighbor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nationalinterest.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Americans had warned that Russian forces will invade Ukraine:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At UN, US warns Russia planning to attack Ukraine in 'coming days'
> 
> 
> UNITED NATIONS: US Secretary of State Antony Blinken laid out at the United Nations Security Council on Thursday how...
> 
> 
> 
> www.brecorder.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia could invade Ukraine next week, US warns
> 
> 
> As tensions escalate, Biden and Putin will speak on Saturday. Read more at straitstimes.com.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.straitstimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Subscribe to read | Financial Times
> 
> 
> News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ft.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese President Xi also knew that Russians will invade Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Told of Ukraine move, China asked Russia to wait until Olympics ended: sources
> 
> 
> The closing Olympic ceremony was held on February 20 in Beijing; the Russian invasion of Ukraine started at dawn on February 24.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.scmp.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which side was lying about this matter? Russia (and its regional ally Belarus).
> 
> China was silent.
> 
> Americans were right.
> 
> - - - -
> 
> Yugoslavian crackdown and subsequent massacre of Bosnians is well-documented.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bosnian Genocide
> 
> 
> In April 1992, the government of the Yugoslav republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina declared its independence from Yugoslavia. Over the next several years, Bosnian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.history.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Holocaust Museum Houston
> 
> 
> Holocaust Museum Houston
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hmh.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bosnia and Herzegovina, 1992–1995
> 
> 
> The creation of an independent Bosnian nation that would have a Bosniak majority was opposed by Bosnian Serbs, who launched a military campaign to secure coveted territory and “cleanse” Bosnia of its Muslim civilian population.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ushmm.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bosnia's Srebrenica massacre 25 years on - in pictures
> 
> 
> Bosnian Serb and Serbian units systematically murdered 8,000 Muslims at Srebrenica in July 1995.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/21/bosnia-genocide-denial-crisis/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan remembers 1995 Srebrenica genocide victims
> 
> 
> ‘World must not let such a massacre happen again,’ Pakistan’s prime minister says - Anadolu Agency
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aa.com.tr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Americans are correct in this case.
> 
> - - - -
> 
> Understand this. Every side will lie (or exaggerate) when it suites its political cause. This is typical human nature.
> 
> In regards to your statement in caps, reminder from Forum Rules:
> 
> *Ethnic / political / nationalistic hate *
> 
> _Needless to say, PDF wishes to be a productive exchange of ideas and not a place of spreading communal, national, political or religiously motivated hatred. Members found involved in such activities would be severely penalized._



Well, as far as i read and also saw live reports in german TV at that time, the minority of Serbs in Bosnia were chased and killed by the Bosnians. And this was the reason that Serbia was forced to help them to stop the the genozid of Serbs in Bosnia.

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## Vergennes

Basel said:


> What I don't understand is, why China is not covertly supporting Russia like west supporting Ukraine??
> 
> This is the war where China can stop west from aggressing into Indo Pacific specially in Taiwan, US will create similar situation for China after destroying Russian military capabilities, it's right time to test modern weapons built by China in real war.



Because the Chinese are only driven by money and they won't risk putting at risk their trillions of $ of trade just for the sake of Putin. On the other hand China by only voicing some support for Russia will not put their relations with the west at risk and they can buy Russia at bargain prices. Win win for them.

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## mulj

Ich said:


> Well, as far as i read and also saw live reports in german TV at that time, the minority of Serbs in Bosnia were chased and killed by the Bosnians. And this was the reason that Serbia was forced to help them to stop the the genozid of Serbs in Bosnia



I highly doubt it that reporting was like that by german media, either way you are not correct with claims.


----------



## Basel

Vergennes said:


> Because the Chinese are only driven by money and they won't risk putting at risk their trillions of $ of trade just for the sake of Putin. On the other hand China by only voicing some support for Russia will not put their relations with the west at risk and they can buy Russia at bargain prices. Win win for them.



Supporting Russia is above business or money, it about survival, as west will take down its opponents one by one, Russia is weaker so it was targeted first, they will create bad situation for China while destroying any country which may become Chinese ally or supporter.

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## LeGenD

Ich said:


> Well, as far as i read and also saw live reports in german TV at that time, the minority of Serbs in Bosnia were chased and killed by the Bosnians. And this was the reason that Serbia was forced to help them to stop the the genozid of Serbs in Bosnia.



Yugoslavia's fundamental problem was that it had significant internal divisions on ethnic lines to function as a single country.

Following lecture is informative:



https://staff.lib.msu.edu/sowards/balkan/lect25.htm


----------



## Broccoli

Vergennes said:


> Snake Island,such a small island but big pain and suffering for the Russians.... Such a strategic island because it could have acted as a bridgehead for a landing on Odessa and Bessarabia....
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523211787776278529
> 
> 
> Indeed,Russian troops do most of the fighting,chechens are only filming tiktoks and parading after the Russians did the fighting and suffered heavy casualties and after DNR/LNR suffered high casualties too because they basically act as cannon fodder. (You can tell it by the garbage equipments the Russians provide them with) LNR/DNR are just bunch of dudes who were forcibly conscripted.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523213447365894144



Russians are their supporters are telling on twitter that it was Ukrainian helicopter... lol.

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## jamahir

Basel said:


> What I don't understand is, why China is not covertly supporting Russia like west supporting Ukraine??
> 
> This is the war where China can stop west from aggressing into Indo Pacific specially in Taiwan, US will create similar situation for China after destroying Russian military capabilities, it's right time to test modern weapons built by China in real war.





Vergennes said:


> Because the Chinese are only driven by money and they won't risk putting at risk their trillions of $ of trade just for the sake of Putin. On the other hand China by only voicing some support for Russia will not put their relations with the west at risk and they can buy Russia at bargain prices. Win win for them.



China is not trustworthy. The North Koreans don't trust it and China did not protest the NATO invasions of Libya and Syria in 2011 and then did not fight alongside the Jamahiriya Libyans and Assad's Syrians against Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood - unlike Russia. We should remember that when NATO wanted to regime-change the Afghan Communist / leftist government in the 1980s and the USSR was supporting that government China was supplying weapons to NATO's criminal proxies in Afghanistan - the so-called Afghan mujahideen who were criminals from all over the world brought into Afghanistan by NATO.


----------



## Ich

mulj said:


> I highly doubt it that reporting was like that by german media, either way you are not correct with claims.



At that time german TV, mostly the WDR, gives opposite views of the goverment views. This changed after 1998 when the idiots came into power and then total broke down with the dictatorship of Merkel.

And i am correct with my claims. At that time the muslims in Bosnia were 40%, the croats were 30% and the serbs were 25-30%. And the muslims, with the help of US/Germany/EU, wanted to break out of the state of Yugoslavia. But the serbs want not.



> Der montenegrinische Serbe und Antikommunist Radovan Karadzic (»Kommunisten sind auch Serben, aber schlechte«) sprach als Vertreter der zweitgrößten bosnischen Ethnie nach den Muslimen ebenfalls davon, das Land ausländischem Kapital öffnen zu wollen. Seine Position wurde vom Westen ignoriert, weil Karadzic vehement für die Verteidigung Jugoslawiens zunächst als Vielvölkerstaat eintrat, d. h. für einen freiwilligen Zusammenschluß aller, die es wollten, auch nach der Abspaltung Sloweniens und Kroatiens 1991. http://www.ag-friedensforschung.de/regionen/Bosnien/abspaltung.html


And that was the aim of the US - to split Yugoslavia into lots of little states where they then can control and push Russia out.

Even the UN admit that bosnian muslims shoot arty at Sarajevo ect. And this the US (Clinton) then used as "fake excuse" to bomb the serbians in Bosnia. It is the same plot as always.



> Da sie die große Mehrheit der westlichen Journalisten auf ihrer Seite sahen, nutzten die bosnischen Muslime dies zu ihrem Vorteil, und es gelang ihnen, die Tötung ihrer eigenen Leute in Sarajevo den Serben in die Schuhe zu schieben, weil sie wussten, das die Auslandspresse diese Taten der serbischen Seite anlasten würde.
> 
> In einem Kommentar dazu sagte der frühere Stellvertretende Oberkommandierende des US European Command, General Charles G. Boyd:“ Kein erfahrener Beobachter in Sarajevo zweifelt auch nur einen Augenblick daran, das die muslimischen Kräfte es als in ihrem Interesse liegend gesehen haben, auf eigene Ziele zu feuern.“ http://www.ag-friedensforschung.de/regionen/Bosnien/denhaag.html



Also the Srebrenica hoax.



> Laut muslimischen Zeugen hat die bosnisch-muslimische Armee auf der Flucht von Srebrenica nach Tuzla in Gefechten mit der serbischen Armee und durch Minen zwischen 2000 und 3000 Kämpfer verloren. 954 muslimische Soldaten, die lange vor dem Fall Srebrenicas umgekommen waren, stehen auf der offiziellen Srebrenica-Vermißtenliste. Fast 3000 muslimische Männer, die seit Juli 1995 als vermißt gelten, stimmten 1996 bei von der OSZE überwachten Wahlen ab – viele übrigens als Flüchtlinge in europäischen Staaten. 500 muslimische Soldaten, die vor 1995 desertiert waren, finden sich ebenso auf der Vermißtenliste. Mittlerweile hat das muslimische Research and Documentation Center in Sarajevo eingeräumt, daß weitere 500 Lebende gefunden wurden, die zu den Vermißten zählen. Die Ermittler des sogenannten Tribunals untersagten serbischen Pathologen, den Ausgrabungen beizuwohnen. Das ICTY hat außerdem 1000 angebliche Beweise des Srebrenica-Massakers trotz laufender Prozesse vernichtet. Verschleiert das Tribunal eher und präsentiert Tote aus anderen Regionen Bosniens als Srebrenica-Opfer, weil die nötigen Leichen fehlen? Die Serben konnten jedenfalls im von internationalen Truppen besetzten Bosnien nicht unbeobachtet Tausende Tote umbetten. http://www.ag-friedensforschung.de/regionen/Bosnien/srebrenica3.html



All the wars in Yugoslavia were staged by US and friends.

*Sometimes i wish that Russia do push the button. Sure i will be dead also. But the shitty US and all the other arsholes in the world will be dead too. *

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## mulj

Ich said:


> At that time german TV, mostly the WDR, gives opposite views of the goverment views. This changed after 1998 when the idiots came into power and then total broke down with the dictatorship of Merkel.
> 
> And i am correct with my claims. At that time the muslims in Bosnia were 40%, the croats were 30% and the serbs were 25-30%. And the muslims, with the help of US/Germany/EU, wanted to break out of the state of Yugoslavia. But the serbs want not.
> 
> 
> And that was the aim of the US - to split Yugoslavia into lots of little states where they than can control and push Russia out.
> 
> Even the UN admit that bosnian muslims shoot arty at Sarajevo ect. And this the US (Clinton) then used as "excuse" to bomb the serbians in Bosnia. It is the same plot as always.
> 
> 
> 
> Also the Srebrenica hoax.
> 
> 
> 
> All the wars in Yugoslavia were staged by US and friends.
> 
> *Sometimes i wish that Russia do push the button. Sure i will be dead also. But the shitty US and all the other arsholes in the world will be dead too. *


Well every idiot think he is corect about his views and opinions.


----------



## Primus

Viet said:


> No
> Iron means Eisen.
> You can make Eisen to Stahl (steel).
> Then you turn Stahl to gehärteter Stahl (hardened steel).
> From multiple layers of gehärteter Stahl you can form them to panzerung.
> When I was at a Berufsschule (a German professional college) I learned in practice how to make hardened steel. No joke.


Well then, i need to have words with my high school German teacher


----------



## Basel

jamahir said:


> China is not trustworthy. The North Koreans don't trust it and China did not protest the NATO invasions of Libya and Syria in 2011 and then did not fight alongside the Jamahiriya Libyans and Assad's Syrians against Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood - unlike Russia. We should remember that when NATO wanted to regime-change the Afghan Communist / leftist government in the 1980s and the USSR was supporting that government China was supplying weapons to NATO's criminal proxies in Afghanistan - the so-called Afghan mujahideen who were criminals from all over the world brought into Afghanistan by NATO.



The regions you mentioned other then NK are mostly under Russian influence and till now China don't have military intervention interest as they know it will hurt their growth and economy, they have studied USSR fall and western tactics, that is why they are first trying to build a military which can match US. The US knows that and they are creating a situation in which China can be dragged into a arms race or in conflicts at Taiwan, south china sea, LAC etc. US and allies are trying encirclement of China by showing them as threat to their neighbors (it's old divide and rule tactic), it will only hurt Asian countries if they go against China, as west is hell bent to stop rise of Asia and avoid loose their control over world.

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## Ich

mulj said:


> Well every idiot think he is corect about his views and opinions.



Yes. I can see it daily in this thread.

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## RoadAmerica

DF41 said:


> Taiwan will not be obliterated, but Taiwan will be back with China and that lesbian Japanese bitch Tsai will be dangling on piano wire under a lamp post together with all other traitors and that be carried out by those in Taiwan.
> 
> Any USA carrier once west of 3rd Island chain will be known, tracked and targeted.
> 
> Non of the USA carriers can even hope to get west of 2nd Island Chain before they be pumped full of hell fire from end to end , and side to side. It will no longer be relevant to USA sailors if their carriers still floating and not sinking.
> 
> Non of the air bases, naval bases and command centers in Japan and Okinawa and Guam or any others within the 2nd island chain will exist other than fragments of memories.


Nice dream, who’s the real war monger?



MajesticPug said:


> These apes believe the Russians will not push back or annihilate whatever the Ukrainian forces have with tactical nuclear weapons. _What if Russians do?_ American, British, French forces will join the fight using '*conventional*' weapons, or *NUCLEAR*? What a bunch of idiots. Nobody, _no international treaty says small tactical nuclear weapon cannot be used against enemy military forces_. US was the only country that used atomic weapons, *twice*, against civilians non-discriminatorily. US *also *got the honor of the only country that uses chemical weapons against civilians in Vietnam. *Now the US is going to tell Russia not to use tactical weapons when its existence threatened*? Anyone with a brain can think what's going to happen. All for what? The f******* bank accounts of Lockheed and Biden and the senators?


Nice rant, go outside and get some fresh air.

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## jamahir

Basel said:


> The regions you mentioned other then NK are mostly under Russian influence and till now China don't have military intervention interest as they know it will hurt their growth and economy, they have studied USSR fall and western tactics, that is why they are first trying to build a military which can match US. The US knows that and they are creating a situation in which China can be dragged into a arms race or in conflicts at Taiwan, south china sea, LAC etc. US and allies are trying encirclement of China by showing them as threat to their neighbors (it's old divide and rule tactic), it will only hurt Asian countries if they go against China, as west is hell bent to stop rise of Asia and avoid loose their control over world.



1. I think NK's military capabilities have some collaboration with Russia.

2. You are right that Libya and Syria were originally allies of the USSR so those two fell naturally to Russia but what is the use of China calling itself as being government by a so-called Communist movement if it never takes the right stand in global affairs against NATO's imperialism and instead becomes selfish in trying to become an imitation of the West ?

3. Asian countries like in South Asia or say Vietnam should more deeply ally themselves with Russia other than West Asian countries like Syria and Algeria. China is not a trustworthy ally. Look at your own question about why China hasn't started supplying armaments to Russia even at this point.


----------



## RoadAmerica

WotTen said:


> I think Russia has not even scratched their conventional capability. They must always be prepared for NATO to enter the conflict directly, and retain the capacity to fight that war to negotiation without going nuclear.
> 
> If NATO ever feels that Russia's conventional capability is sufficiently degraded, it might decide to finish the job itself while gambling that Russia will not go nuclear.


Dude nato isn’t going to attack Russia, people on here are high af. And if you don’t think Russian capabilities have been drastically decreased you’ve had your eyes closed

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## Basel

jamahir said:


> 1. I think NK's military capabilities have some collaboration with Russia.
> 
> 2. You are right that Libya and Syria were originally allies of the USSR so those two fell naturally to Russia but what is the use of China calling itself as being government by a so-called Communist movement if it never takes the right stand in global affairs against NATO's imperialism and instead becomes selfish in trying to become an imitation of the West ?
> 
> 3. Asian countries like in South Asia or say Vietnam should more deeply ally themselves with Russia other than West Asian countries like Syria and Algeria. China is not a trustworthy ally. Look at your own question about why China hasn't started supplying armaments to Russia even at this point.



NK today is there because of China, although both have some issues, but with out China support NK would have fallen.

As I have said before that China's main objective is to bring parity or near parity with US military first, they will avoid military confrontation as much possible, while US will try to pull them in arms race and confrontation in other countries, what now China should do is to covertly support Russia in Ukraine because if west succeeded against Russia using Ukraine then they will come after countries who feel close to China although not an ally, while west will also create situation in Taiwan similar to Ukraine to bleed China.

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## RoadAmerica

Ich said:


> At that time german TV, mostly the WDR, gives opposite views of the goverment views. This changed after 1998 when the idiots came into power and then total broke down with the dictatorship of Merkel.
> 
> And i am correct with my claims. At that time the muslims in Bosnia were 40%, the croats were 30% and the serbs were 25-30%. And the muslims, with the help of US/Germany/EU, wanted to break out of the state of Yugoslavia. But the serbs want not.
> 
> 
> And that was the aim of the US - to split Yugoslavia into lots of little states where they then can control and push Russia out.
> 
> Even the UN admit that bosnian muslims shoot arty at Sarajevo ect. And this the US (Clinton) then used as "fake excuse" to bomb the serbians in Bosnia. It is the same plot as always.
> 
> 
> 
> Also the Srebrenica hoax.
> 
> 
> 
> All the wars in Yugoslavia were staged by US and friends.
> 
> *Sometimes i wish that Russia do push the button. Sure i will be dead also. But the shitty US and all the other arsholes in the world will be dead too. *


Haha please take care of the last part and leave the rest of us along.



Basel said:


> The regions you mentioned other then NK are mostly under Russian influence and till now China don't have military intervention interest as they know it will hurt their growth and economy, they have studied USSR fall and western tactics, that is why they are first trying to build a military which can match US. The US knows that and they are creating a situation in which China can be dragged into a arms race or in conflicts at Taiwan, south china sea, LAC etc. US and allies are trying encirclement of China by showing them as threat to their neighbors (it's old divide and rule tactic), it will only hurt Asian countries if they go against China, as west is hell bent to stop rise of Asia and avoid loose their control over world.


China is creating their own problems, which country doesn’t abide by international boarders, hint it starts with C. This is the reason for all of the drama in the SCS. 
What do they need with Taiwan anyway, what will one island provide that they don’t have already?

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## jamahir

Basel said:


> NK today is there because of China, although both have some issues, but with out China support NK would have fallen.



IIRC the DPRK was established with help of the USSR though in the Korea War I agree that China helped save DPRK but also with help of USSR. But that was a different China. Today to me it seems that DPRK / North Korea mostly has economic ties with China. North Korea is not ideologically and practically trustful of China because China just is a big single-party imitation of the Capitalist West.



Basel said:


> As I have said before that China's main objective is to bring parity or near parity with US military first, they will avoid military confrontation as much possible



Till when ?



Basel said:


> while US will try to pull them in arms race and confrontation in other countries, what now China should do is to covertly support Russia in Ukraine because if west succeeded against Russia using Ukraine then they will come after countries who feel close to China although not an ally, while west will also create situation in Taiwan similar to Ukraine to bleed China.



If China has not helped Russia in Syria in eleven years I doubt it will help Russia now. I don't see a connection between the NATO war against Russia and the NATO war against China. China is number two on NATO's list. Number one has always been USSR and Russia. Ironicaly a Chinese member had posted a street interview here by Asian Boss channel. The interview was in the streets of Almaty, Kazakhstan. One girl said that if Russia has to fight the world then Kazakhstan will fight alongside Russia. I don't think she will have the same sentiment about China even though Kazakhstan shares a long border with China.



RoadAmerica said:


> Haha please take care of the last part and leave the rest of us along.



@Ich and the progressive Americans can migrate to Russia and I will say that Russia should push the buttons for whatever is left of the American cities, taking care that the American mountain lions and other cats and the deer are unharmed. I also hope that Elon and his likes take their talents to Russia.


----------



## WotTen

Basel said:


> What I don't understand is, why China is not covertly supporting Russia like west supporting Ukraine??
> 
> This is the war where China can stop west from aggressing into Indo Pacific specially in Taiwan, US will create similar situation for China after destroying Russian military capabilities, it's right time to test modern weapons built by China in real war.



China doesn't give a damn about offending the US, but China doesn't want to poison its relationship with Western Europe.

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## RoadAmerica

jamahir said:


> IIRC the DPRK was established with help of the USSR though in the Korea War I agree that China helped save DPRK but also with help of USSR. But that was a different China. Today to me it seems that DPRK / North Korea mostly has economic ties with China. North Korea is not ideologically and practically trustful of China because China just is a big single-party imitation of the Capitalist West.
> 
> 
> 
> Till when ?
> 
> 
> 
> If China has not helped Russia in Syria in eleven years I doubt it will help Russia now. I don't see a connection between the NATO war against Russia and the NATO war against China. China is number two on NATO's list. Number one has always been USSR and Russia. Ironicaly a Chinese member had posted a street interview here by Asian Boss channel. The interview was in the streets of Almaty, Kazakhstan. One girl said that if Russia has to fight the world then Kazakhstan will fight alongside Russia. I don't think she will have the same sentiment about China even though Kazakhstan shares a long border with China.
> 
> 
> 
> @Ich and the progressive Americans can migrate to Russia and I will say that Russia should push the buttons for whatever is left of the American cities, taking care that the American mountain lions and other cats and the deer are unharmed. I also hope that Elon and his likes take their talents to Russia.


I mean him being dead. You clowns saying push the button can’t be very old because your silly dreams about the end of the world alarm false and stupid


----------



## jamahir

RoadAmerica said:


> I mean him being dead. You clowns saying push the button can’t be very old because your silly dreams about the end of the world alarm false and stupid



I haven't followed you two's discussion so please tell me again why you want him dead and the American system alive.


----------



## Ich

RoadAmerica said:


> Haha please take care of the last part and leave the rest of us along.


Why should i take care of you?


----------



## Ich

LeGenD said:


> Yugoslavia's fundamental problem was that it had significant internal divisions on ethnic lines to function as a single country.
> 
> Following lecture is informative:
> 
> 
> 
> https://staff.lib.msu.edu/sowards/balkan/lect25.htm



Lecture? Its propaganda and lies. You can read it in my links









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


I highly doubt it that reporting was like that by german media, either way you are not correct with claims. At that time german TV, mostly the WDR, gives opposite views of the goverment views. This changed after 1998 when the idiots came into power and then total broke down with the...



defence.pk

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## Oldman1

LeGenD said:


> Russian troops are fighting. Others are a joke. Chechens are mostly Photo-ops.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523033552405004288


----------



## WotTen

Basel said:


> As I have said before that China's main objective is to bring parity or near parity with US military first, they will avoid military confrontation as much possible, while US will try to pull them in arms race and confrontation in other countries



China wants to avoid confrontation with the West. Even Europe has been mostly OK with China's rise, but the US will never allow a competitor. It sabotaged Europe and Russia's detente by engineering this Ukraine war. Now, two of its competitors are at each other's throat instead of challenging American domination.

US also wanted to stop China's rise before it got too strong. The entire confrontation between US and China was started by the US.

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## Apollon

Basel said:


> What I don't understand is, why China is not covertly supporting Russia like west supporting Ukraine??
> 
> This is the war where China can stop west from aggressing into Indo Pacific specially in Taiwan, US will create similar situation for China after destroying Russian military capabilities, it's right time to test modern weapons built by China in real war.



Because it would destroy China as well. 


Will China risk its business with economic giants like EU and USA? For Russia with its anemic. Small . Economy? No.


----------



## SalarHaqq

Treasonous Ukraine regime renamed Donetsk settlement into "New York":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_(Ukraine)

What Uncle Toms.

@Tai Hai Chen

_______

These past few days NATO propaganda alleging Russian war crimes has gone into overdrive again it would seem. Look at the control map of the war to understand why: Russian encirclement of Slavyansk has made significant progress and soon the Donbas cauldron will materialize.

It's almost mechanical, synchronized and oh so predictable: at every major setback, NATO and its mouthpieces shower the public with another ton of stories about atrocities they claim Russia has committed, in order to deflect from and cover up news of Russian battlefield achievements, and because propaganda is basically the only option a thoroughly impotent NATO is left with.

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## Apollon

Basel said:


> NK today is there because of China, although both have some issues, but with out China support NK would have fallen.
> 
> As I have said before that China's main objective is to bring parity or near parity with US military first, they will avoid military confrontation as much possible, while US will try to pull them in arms race and confrontation in other countries, what now China should do is to covertly support Russia in Ukraine because if west succeeded against Russia using Ukraine then they will come after countries who feel close to China although not an ally, while west will also create situation in Taiwan similar to Ukraine to bleed China.



In 21st century nothing can be done covertly.


----------



## Oldman1

Basel said:


> What I don't understand is, why China is not covertly supporting Russia like west supporting Ukraine??
> 
> This is the war where China can stop west from aggressing into Indo Pacific specially in Taiwan, US will create similar situation for China after destroying Russian military capabilities, it's right time to test modern weapons built by China in real war.


Stop the west? Who is doing the actually fighting? Ukrainians and Russians. Not NATO or the rest of the world. Would China be glad to send in their top of the line weaponry into Ukraine and let that fall into enemy hands? I'm sure the U.S. and rest of the world be happy to see the insides of China's weaponry.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523163463551533056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523271670764429315

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523249530577203200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523248831588052992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523236811488718850

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523187882717970433

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## CAPRICORN-88

May 9,. 2022 V-day parade is a few hours away. 

I am look forward to see the BIG FIREWORK display as promised by the Ukrainian on Moscow.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> May 9,. 2022 V-day parade is a few hours away.
> 
> I am look forward to see the BIG FIREWORK display as promised by the Ukrainian on Moscow.



Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. If Ukrainians do that they are suicidal.


----------



## RoadAmerica

jamahir said:


> I haven't followed you two's discussion so please tell me again why you want him dead and the American system alive.


He wants nuclear war and is fine with himself being dead, hence please skip the first part and proceed to the second.

I find it funny the hate towards Americans by some here. Every civilization has done good and bad, not one is perfect.
Just remember America could simply stop providing food aid to Africa and millions would die in 12 months. They could also stop donating and providing aid after every world disaster. I think it’s clear the good outweighs the bad. 

Take a minute and reflect, Russia, China, the Eu don’t provide anywhere near the free aid the US does, so next time you’re chanting death to America remember it’s death to millions around the world as well.

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## Apollon

SalarHaqq said:


> Treasonous Ukraine regime renamed Donetsk settlement into "New York":
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_(Ukraine)
> 
> What Uncle Toms.
> 
> @Tai Hai Chen
> 
> _______
> 
> These past few days NATO propaganda alleging Russian war crimes has gone into overdrive again it would seem. Look at the control map of the war to understand why: Russian encirclement of Slavyansk has made significant progress and soon the Donbas cauldron will materialize.
> 
> It's almost mechanical, synchronized and oh so predictable: at every major setback, NATO and its mouthpieces shower the public with another ton of stories about atrocities they claim Russia has committed, in order to deflect from and cover up news of Russian battlefield achievements, and because propaganda is basically the only option a thoroughly impotent NATO is left with.



If NATO is so impotent...why is Russia losing 10 generals and its flagship?


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523265429531410432

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## Apollon

RoadAmerica said:


> He wants nuclear war and is fine with himself being dead, hence please skip the first part and proceed to the second.
> 
> I find it funny the hate towards Americans by some here. Every civilization has done good and bad, not one is perfect.
> Just remember America could simply stop providing food aid to Africa and millions would die in 12 months. They could also stop donating and providing aid after every world disaster. I think it’s clear the good outweighs the bad.
> 
> Take a minute and reflect, Russia, China, the Eu don’t provide anywhere near the free aid the US does, so next time you’re chanting death to America remember it’s death to millions around the world as well.



Ignore him. He is a eastern german of the generation that got its mind banged by russian propaganda. Older east germans above 60 hate russians. Young east germans younger than 40 hate russians as well. Its that narrow band 40 to 60 that is lost. Their numbers are low and they get ignored by german politics as well. Just read his bullshit about merkel dictatorship ect.


----------



## Oldman1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523036461595242498
Talks about the consequences of general mobilization of Russia against Ukraine.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523177681902194688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523173783040790529

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523155929469923330

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523252491038912513

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523254375376093184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523233100183998465


----------



## StraightEdge

RoadAmerica said:


> He wants nuclear war and is fine with himself being dead, hence please skip the first part and proceed to the second.
> 
> I find it funny the hate towards Americans by some here. Every civilization has done good and bad, not one is perfect.
> Just remember America could simply stop providing food aid to Africa and millions would die in 12 months. They could also stop donating and providing aid after every world disaster. I think it’s clear the good outweighs the bad.
> 
> Take a minute and reflect, Russia, China, the Eu don’t provide anywhere near the free aid the US does, so next time you’re chanting death to America remember it’s death to millions around the world as well.



It's very easy to hate the Americans, you guys are the biggest hypocrites.

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## RoadAmerica

Apollon said:


> Ignore him. He is a eastern german of the generation that got its mind banged by russian propaganda. Older east germans above 60 hate russians. Young east germans younger than 40 hate russians as well. Its that narrow band 40 to 60 that is lost. Their numbers are low and they get ignored by german politics as well. Just read his bullshit about merkel dictatorship ect.


Agreed.

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## RescueRanger

*Important thread please read*

It would seem as this is the last stand for the defenders of Mariupol inside Azov Steel Plant.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523266728595431429
Some revelations:

NATO refused to supply Azov with Javelins as per the commander interviewed on Skype
—-
This was their last message:

Samoilenko: “We are encircled. We spent our resources on the defense of Mariupol.” He says nothing was saved for them personally. “We are, here, basically dead men. Most of us know this. It’s why we fight so fearlessly.”

—-
As a Pakistani to me these men have fought like lions to defend their country - one can’t deny that.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523251669848707074

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## WotTen

RoadAmerica said:


> He wants nuclear war and is fine with himself being dead, hence please skip the first part and proceed to the second.
> 
> I find it funny the hate towards Americans by some here. Every civilization has done good and bad, not one is perfect.
> Just remember America could simply stop providing food aid to Africa and millions would die in 12 months. They could also stop donating and providing aid after every world disaster. I think it’s clear the good outweighs the bad.
> 
> Take a minute and reflect, Russia, China, the Eu don’t provide anywhere near the free aid the US does, so next time you’re chanting death to America remember it’s death to millions around the world as well.



America has done a lot of good around the world and it has also done a lot of harm.

It's the curse of being powerful. Everything America does is amplified. For good or for bad.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

StraightEdge said:


> It's very easy to hate the Americans, you guys are the biggest hypocrites.



Also, Hollywood sucks there days. Anti Russia propaganda is so bad these days. Anti Russia propaganda in the new Daredevil TV series is crap compared to anti Russia propaganda in Rocky V.

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## RoadAmerica

StraightEdge said:


> It's very easy to hate the Americans, you guys are the biggest hypocrites.


As if everyone else isn’t 🤷🏿‍♂️
Thanks for ignoring my post, just proving my point.
For the record, If it was on a ballot I’d vote to end our generosity all together, the world would be a much more dangerous place and not for me.



WotTen said:


> America has done a lot of good around the world and it has also done a lot of harm.
> 
> It's the curse of being powerful. Everything America does is amplified. For good or for bad.


Exactly we can agree on that 👍🏿


----------



## Broccoli

WotTen said:


> China doesn't give a damn about offending the US, but China doesn't want to poison its relationship with Western Europe.



Should tell that to Xi since his "wolf warrior" diplomats are attempting to bully smaller EU countries due their relations with Taiwan and are hostile towards Europe in general. And that was before this war started. 

Now Chinas reputation is even worse among Europeans.


----------



## mulj

Ich said:


> Yes. I can see it daily in this thread.


I am not interested in thread with this particular matter only in your statements regarding Bosnia past and referemces, you act like i described.


----------



## Broccoli

Apollon said:


> Because it would destroy China as well.
> 
> 
> Will China risk its business with economic giants like EU and USA? For Russia with its anemic. Small . Economy? No.



China is a single party state and if the leader isn't good it means they can do it even thought it causes huge problems... Putin is surrounded by yes men and you gotta wonder if Xi has done the same.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Broccoli said:


> Should tell that to Xi since his "wolf warrior" diplomats are attempting to bully smaller EU countries due their relations with Taiwan and are hostile towards Europe in general. And that was before this war started.
> 
> Now Chinas reputation is even worse among Europeans.



Anyone who supports Taiwan in any way, shape, or form is China's enemy. And that includes America and whoever else.

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## Ich

WotTen said:


> America has done a lot of good around the world and it has also done a lot of harm.



What good has US (the smallest country in the semi continent of north amerika) done? I am eager to hear.

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## Broccoli

Basel said:


> What I don't understand is, why China is not covertly supporting Russia like west supporting Ukraine??
> 
> This is the war where China can stop west from aggressing into Indo Pacific specially in Taiwan, US will create similar situation for China after destroying Russian military capabilities, it's right time to test modern weapons built by China in real war.



Who is planning to invade Taiwan? 

Is it China or "the west?


----------



## RescueRanger

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523251669848707074


Zero force protection- zero situational awareness - Warfare Russia style - still thinking it’s the 1980’s.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Broccoli said:


> Who is planning to invade Taiwan?
> 
> Is it China or "the west?



China considers Taiwan Chinese territory. China making aircraft carriers to invade Taiwan in the future. Xi will hang the traitors like Saddam was hang.


----------



## Broccoli

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Anyone who supports Taiwan in any way, shape, or form is China's enemy. And that includes America and whoever else.



Truth is that PRC cannot tolerate democracy on it's door steps as it would put CPC's legimetaty into questions because they dont hold general elections themselves.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> Because it would destroy China as well.
> 
> 
> Will China risk its business with economic giants like EU and USA? For Russia with its anemic. Small . Economy? No.



China cannot be blackmailed. Chinese men are the most intelligent men on the planet.



Broccoli said:


> Truth is that PRC cannot tolerate democracy on it's door steps as it would put CPC's legimetaty into questions because they dont hold general elections themselves.



Xi considers himself emperor. A democratic Taiwan is a threat.








RescueRanger said:


> Zero force protection- zero situational awareness - Warfare Russia style - still thinking it’s the 1980’s.



Still doing better than the US did in Iraq and Afghanistan where the US got its arse handed to it by sandal wearing folks.


----------



## WotTen

Ich said:


> What good has US (the smallest country in the semi continent of north amerika) done? I am eager to hear.



The US spends a lot of money on humanitarian aid around the world. The US, as a government and as a society, has given a lot of technology, art and science to the rest of the world. Occasionally, yes it does happen, the US uses its global power to hold murderous dictators accountable for crimes against their people.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523200622706655233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523200625466564608

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523200627425357824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523200629618917377

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523200633758957570

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523200636795625472

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## Ich

mulj said:


> I am not interested in thread with this particular matter only in your statements regarding Bosnia past and referemces, you act like i described.



My statements are proven right









Propaganda im Jugoslawienkrieg


Beim Jugoslawienkrieg der 1990er Jahre ging es aus geopolitischer Sicht um eine Neuordnung Südosteuropas nach dem Ende des Kalten Krieges. Die USA nutzten dazu auch jene Milizen, mit denen sie zuvor in Afghanistan die UdSSR bekämpften, und die sie später »Al Kaida« nennen sollten.




swprs.org





in english









Propaganda in the War on Yugoslavia


From a geopolitical perspective, the war on Yugoslavia in the 1990s was about restructuring Southeast Europe after the end of the Cold War. To this end, the US even deployed the combatants with which it had previously fought the USSR in Afghanistan and which it would later call "Al Qaeda".




swprs.org

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

WotTen said:


> The US spends a lot of money on humanitarian aid around the world. The US, as a government and as a society, has given a lot of technology, art and science to the rest of the world. Occasionally, yes it does happen, the US uses its global power to hold murderous dictators accountable for crimes against their people.



The US is a vigilante, sort of like Daredevil and Moon Knight. They think they are killing bad people when in fact they are murderers of all sorts of people both good and bad.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523200638599012354

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523200642298249217

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523200645075021824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523200648782974979

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523200651605397504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523200653274791940

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## Oldman1

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523200622706655233
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523200625466564608
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523200627425357824
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523200629618917377
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523200633758957570
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523200636795625472


NATO needs to keep sending in more artillery. I know the U.S. has hundreds of M109s sitting in storage somewhere. Same for the rest of the NATO countries. Arty just sitting around in storage. No excuse that it would take long to get them ready and so on. We don't know how long the war will last. Could be many months or years. Also need to send in HIMARS and M270s. The war in Donbas is now the War of Artilleries.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Oldman1 said:


> NATO needs to keep sending in more artillery. I know the U.S. has hundreds of M109s sitting in storage somewhere. Same for the res of the NATO countries. Arty just sitting around in storage. No excuse that it would take long to get them ready and so on. We don't know how long the war will last. Could be many months or years. Also need to send in HIMARS and M270s. The war in Donbas is now the War of Artilleries.



Old artillery won't make any difference. Simply easy prey for Russian attack jets and helicopters and drones.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523222140685897730

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523221514711093249

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501469696150880256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523201789444894720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523192344522207232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523087574914326529

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523200918690439168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523200920783564800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523200922997772294

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523200925132726274

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523209522936180736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523219755787726848


----------



## Apollon

Ich said:


> What good has US (the smallest country in the semi continent of north amerika) done? I am eager to hear.



You finally got what was the most important thing for Ossis of your generation.

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## F-22Raptor

Oldman1 said:


> NATO needs to keep sending in more artillery. I know the U.S. has hundreds of M109s sitting in storage somewhere. Same for the rest of the NATO countries. Arty just sitting around in storage. No excuse that it would take long to get them ready and so on. We don't know how long the war will last. Could be many months or years. Also need to send in HIMARS and M270s. The war in Donbas is now the War of Artilleries.



US guided rocket artillery would be particularly devastating to Russian forces. They may be sent in the new $16B weapons package.

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> *The Ukrainian counteroffensive northeast of Kharkiv is making significant progress and will likely advance to the Russian border in the coming days or weeks. *Russian forces may be conducting a limited withdrawal in the face of successful Ukrainian attacks and reportedly destroyed three bridges to slow the Ukrainian advance. Armies generally only destroy bridges if they have largely decided they will not attempt to cross the river in the other direction anytime soon; Russian forces are therefore unlikely to launch operations to retake the northeast outskirts of Kharkiv liberated by Ukrainian forces in the near future. Russian forces previously destroyed several bridges during their retreat from Chernihiv Oblast—as did Ukrainian forces withdrawing in the face of the Russian offensive in the initial days of the war.
> 
> This Ukrainian offensive is likely intended to push Russian forces out of artillery range of Kharkiv city and drive to the border of Russia’s Belgorod Oblast. As ISW previously forecasted, the Ukrainian counteroffensive is forcing Russian units intended for deployment elsewhere to redeploy to the Kharkiv front to halt Ukrainian attacks. Given the current rate of Ukrainian advances, Russian forces may be unable to prevent Ukrainian forces from reaching the Russian border, even with additional reinforcements. Ukrainian forces are not directly threatening Russian lines of communication to Izyum (and ISW cannot verify claims of a separate Ukrainian counteroffensive toward Izyum at this time), but the Ukrainian counteroffensive demonstrates promising Ukrainian capabilities and may set conditions for further offensive operations into northeastern Kharkiv Oblast.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523095533971283968
> 
> Things are looking bleak for Russia in the Kharkiv region



I wonder how long it will take to make Ukraine's Army to be able to take the fight onto mainland Russia to outflank the rear of the soldiers and cut off their supply lines in Russia.. Would make it harder for Russia yto control the narrative of this being a Special Operation and not a full blown war which it is.


----------



## Oldman1

F-22Raptor said:


> US guided rocket artillery would be particularly devastating to Russian forces. They may be sent in the new $16B weapons package.


Hopefully, I know some countries are sending in their own M109s especially Italy. Helps the Ukrainians with shoot and scoot tactic.

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## Meengla

RescueRanger said:


> *Important thread please read*
> 
> It would seem as this is the last stand for the defenders of Mariupol inside Azov Steel Plant.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523266728595431429
> Some revelations:
> 
> NATO refused to supply Azov with Javelins as per the commander interviewed on Skype
> —-
> This was their last message:
> 
> Samoilenko: “We are encircled. We spent our resources on the defense of Mariupol.” He says nothing was saved for them personally. “We are, here, basically dead men. Most of us know this. It’s why we fight so fearlessly.”
> 
> —-
> As a Pakistani to me these men have fought like lions to defend their country - one can’t deny that.



"As a Pakistani to me these men have fought like lions to defend their country - one can’t deny that."

Indeed. Salute to them. Not saying I like them or not or even think it was wise to have stayed on after were giving exit out of Mariupol by Russia weeks ago. But they sure have fought like lions and will be remembered by history. 
And I hope the war ends with the full capture of Mariupol, Putin would have the 'consolation prize' to end the war. Going for the total capture of Ukrainian south and east would be too costly and a bloodbath; it would be utterly criminal.

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## Oldman1

Ali_Baba said:


> I wonder how long it will take to make Ukraine's Army to be able to take the fight onto mainland Russia to outflank the rear of the soldiers and cut off their supply lines in Russia..


They don't need to invade Russian mainland. They can attack it with artillery. Belgorod supply depots would be within artillery range along with the supply lines leading into and out of Ukraine.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523256241937870854

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523273359273857024

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> US guided rocket artillery would be particularly devastating to Russian forces. They may be sent in the new $16B weapons package.



Only a few can be deployed in battle. There is severe fuel shortage in Ukraine and Russian attack jets, helicopters, drones are killing Ukrainian logistics trucks left and right.



Ali_Baba said:


> I wonder how long it will take to make Ukraine's Army to be able to take the fight onto mainland Russia to outflank the rear of the soldiers and cut off their supply lines in Russia.. Would make it harder for Russia yto control the narrative of this being a Special Operation and not a full blown war which it is.



Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. Invading the Russian mainland would be suicidal.



Oldman1 said:


> Hopefully, I know some countries are sending in their own M109s especially Italy. Helps the Ukrainians with shoot and scoot tactic.



Forpost-R pilots are salivating. Self propelled artillery are harder to replace losses than towed artillery.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Meengla said:


> "As a Pakistani to me these men have fought like lions to defend their country - one can’t deny that."
> 
> Indeed. Salute to them. Not saying I like them or not or even think it was wise to have stayed on after were giving exit out of Mariupol by Russia weeks ago. But they sure have fought like lions and will be remembered by history.
> And I hope the war ends with the full capture of Mariupol, Putin would have the 'consolation prize' to end the war. Going for the total capture of Ukrainian south and east would be too costly and a bloodbath; it would be utterly criminal.



Mariupol siege is a joke compared to Deir es Zor siege and Abu Duhur airbase siege.









Siege of Deir ez-Zor (2014–2017) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













Siege of Abu al-Duhur Airbase - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## StraightEdge

RoadAmerica said:


> As if everyone else isn’t 🤷🏿‍♂️
> Thanks for ignoring my post, just proving my point.
> For the record, If it was on a ballot I’d vote to end our generosity all together, the world would be a much more dangerous place and not for me.
> 
> 
> Exactly we can agree on that 👍🏿



Yea, you can end your so-called generosity, killing thousands every year and these whites want our gratitude.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523172350233317376

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523292023058542593

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## Ich

WotTen said:


> The US spends a lot of money on humanitarian aid around the world. The US, as a government and as a society, has given a lot of technology, art and science to the rest of the world. Occasionally, yes it does happen, the US uses its global power to hold murderous dictators accountable for crimes against their people.



Haha, well, most countries US spents "US aid" were destroyed by US before or had "regime change" by US before or were economical pressured by US before (e.g. sanctions) so that they were unable to develop themself their needs. Whereas "US aid" is also (and in the sum the most) military aid to e.g. Israel ect. or Proxy fighting groups ect.

Technological the US is on the decline. The technological advantage, coming from the theft of german patents and researches after ww2, only holded on to the 70s, then slows down even the US still theft technologies from other countries. Today the US is only second, third or lower in most technologies.

And what art? Pedophil Disney channel? Woke bullshit? Sick Hollywood films? Lol!

And what sience? Most "siencific succsess" in US is made by foreign scientists working there.

What US is good in is destroy smaller countries, do regime changes and pressure the "friends" in "the West" to support with sanctions for to destroy other countries economic. And that all for to delay its own crash, suck other countries life out to delay. But even that is on the decline cause the perverted world dollar system, what let the US survived till now by making hughe dept, is on the decline.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523291271372017666


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523291271372017666



Chechens scare the crap out Ukrainians

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

The SC said:


> Help us, support us, give us
> 
> View attachment 841641


So you dont support Palestinians every much?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523160582027100160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523185401833619457

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523185837478973440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523223144085192705

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523277221213122562


----------



## Apollon

Ich said:


> Haha, well, most countries US spents "US aid" were destroyed by US before or had "regime change" by US before or were economical pressured by US before (e.g. sanctions) so that they were unable to develop themself their needs. Whereas "US aid" is also (and in the sum the most) military aid to e.g. Israel ect. or Proxy fighting groups ect.
> 
> Technological the US is on the decline. The technological advantage, coming from the theft of german patents and researches after ww2, only holded on to the 70s, then slows down even the US still theft technologies from other countries. Today the US is only second, third or lower in most technologies.
> 
> And what art? Pedophil Disney channel? Woke bullshit? Sick Hollywood films? Lol!
> 
> And what sience? Most "siencific succsess" in US is made by foreign scientists working there.
> 
> What US is good in is destroy smaller countries, do regime changes and pressure the "friends" in "the West" to support with sanctions for to destroy other countries economic. And that all for to delay its own crash, suck other countries life out to delay. But even that is on the decline cause the perferted world dollar system, what let the US survived till now by making hughe dept, is on the decline.



Ossi Alarm.


Hey buddy does it hurt you alot that all east Germany combined is less than NRW and political irrelevant in Germany?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Russians and dudes like @Hassan Al-Somal will claim they destroyed a concentration of Ukrainian nazis and foreign mercenaries destroyed 1500 tanks and killed 2 millions of them lmao.



I never claimed what you alleged.

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## A.P. Richelieu

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *Take Wali the resurrected Canadian sniper whom the West accredited for the killing of a Russian General. *
> 
> At an interview over Canadian TV, he admitted he did not killed any Russian General as propagated in social media and West News Media but instead seen how fellow Ukrainian comrade in arm got killed.
> His Javelin ATGM could not even hit any Russian Tank as they were out of sight and range.
> But the Russian Tank with their infrared hit them with deadly precision killing his two comrades.
> He admitted US and NATO supplied arms are useless against Russia. He added the US and Canadian should send in ground troops instead.
> 
> He became completely disillusioned after his bitter experience and regretted joining the war.
> He joined the mercenaries to fight Russia without understanding what was all about?
> 
> If he ever returned to Ukraine, it will not as a soldier but as humanitarian worker.
> 
> They spotted a Swastika Tattoo on his body meaning he belongs to a Nazi group in Canada.
> 
> Russian disinformation. This is over the air in Canada.
> 
> Straight from the horse mouth.



So here is the article, which says that you are bullshitting.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-russia-canadian-forces-1.6443048



The interview is not with Wali, it is an interview with another guy, which was assigned to Wali, carrying munitions. A soldier which never saw combat before.



Huffal said:


> In german Panzer means Iron


I think ”Armour” is a better translation.

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## CAPRICORN-88

A.P. Richelieu said:


> So here is the article, which says that you are bullshiting.
> 
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-russia-canadian-forces-1.6443048
> 
> 
> 
> The interview is not with Wali, it is an interview with another guy, which was assigned to Wali, carrying munitions. A soldier which never saw combat before.


Watch the live interview with Wali over Canadian TV instead and you will get wiser.

This type of edited BS transcript by another is mean for American readers as crisis management.

Surely you are more mature than that by now.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

RoadAmerica said:


> He wants nuclear war and is fine with himself being dead, hence please skip the first part and proceed to the second.
> 
> I find it funny the hate towards Americans by some here. Every civilization has done good and bad, not one is perfect.
> Just remember America could simply stop providing food aid to Africa and millions would die in 12 months. They could also stop donating and providing aid after every world disaster. I think it’s clear the good outweighs the bad.
> 
> Take a minute and reflect, Russia, China, the Eu don’t provide anywhere near the free aid the US does, so next time you’re chanting death to America remember it’s death to millions around the world as well.


The US provides 0,22% of GDP in foreign aid which is far from the recommended 0,7% of GDP. Nordic countries typically provide 1% of GDP or more.
The US of course provide a lot in absolute numbers, but the EU provides more.

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## BHAN85

Russian state TV about UK suicidal behavior in Ukraine: "Why do they play games?"


:lol::lol::lol: He's right.



 defence.pk


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I never claimed what you alleged.


When the Ukrainian Army has dug in waiting for Russia forces to enter but still get dislodge and now heafing South. 

*We know which way the conflict is heading.
Even the Pentagon is admitting Russia is shaping the war. What more do they want?
A nuke holocaust to occur. *

As I said before, the Russian National Guards role in Eastern Ukraine is very specific. 

To encircle and assists the militia of DNR to liberate the areas controlled by thr Ukrainian neo-NAZI AZOV battalion.

After the mopping up operation, their task is to act like pracekeepers.


----------



## Bengal71

Basel said:


> What I don't understand is, why China is not covertly supporting Russia like west supporting Ukraine??
> 
> This is the war where China can stop west from aggressing into Indo Pacific specially in Taiwan, US will create similar situation for China after destroying Russian military capabilities, it's right time to test modern weapons built by China in real war.



If China wants to do that it's not the right time. They should only do it if and when European and American troops get involved.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

*Meanwhile I am waiting for the FIREWORK at Moscow May 9, 2022 V-day celebration as promised by Ukraine to lite up. *

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## A.P. Richelieu

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Watch his live interview with Wali over Canadian TV instead and you will get wiser.
> 
> This type of edited BS transcript by another is mean for American readers as crisis management.
> 
> Surely you are more mature than that by now.


Here is the interview, Wali nowhere to be seen in the video.

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## LeGenD

Ich said:


> Haha, well, most countries US spents "US aid" were destroyed by US before or had "regime change" by US before or were economical pressured by US before (e.g. sanctions) so that they were unable to develop themself their needs. Whereas "US aid" is also (and in the sum the most) military aid to e.g. Israel ect. or Proxy fighting groups ect.
> 
> Technological the US is on the decline. The technological advantage, coming from the theft of german patents and researches after ww2, only holded on to the 70s, then slows down even the US still theft technologies from other countries. Today the US is only second, third or lower in most technologies.
> 
> And what art? Pedophil Disney channel? Woke bullshit? Sick Hollywood films? Lol!
> 
> And what sience? Most "siencific succsess" in US is made by foreign scientists working there.
> 
> What US is good in is destroy smaller countries, do regime changes and pressure the "friends" in "the West" to support with sanctions for to destroy other countries economic. And that all for to delay its own crash, suck other countries life out to delay. But even that is on the decline cause the perverted world dollar system, what let the US survived till now by making hughe dept, is on the decline.



Disagreed with you on this, dear.

Americans continue to innovate and produce top-of-the-line technologies. This is lengthy debate and offtopic so I will keep this short.

Just look at works of Elon Musk. His companies have produced revolutionary technologies. Impact is global, and even Germans are impressed.

SpaceX starlink cyber system have a major role in making it possible for Ukranians to subvert impact of Russian cyber warfare capabilities and efforts (more than Russian in fact). Russians are in total disbelief and Pentagon is studying starlink cyber system as well. This network alone have made it possible for Ukranians to fight Russia on even playing field.

Russia was well-equipped to swallow Ukraine otherwise.

Russian defeat in Ukraine is/would be absolutely stunning development. This war will haunt Russia in the years to come.

USA is a nation of immigrants as a whole. It is pointless to discuss background of American scientists. They are diverse and mixed.

American economic system and model is different from traditional economics. They conceptualized Bretton Woods system after the Great Depression of the 1930s. They conceptualized Petro-Dollar system after the energy crisis of the 1970s. They will conceptualize another system if the current system fails. Some of the most brilliant economic minds work there.

USA is here to stay and people should come to terms with this reality. It is a big country with talented people.

Modern Global Order favors existence of nation-states. The Age of Empires is gone as you can see in Ukraine.

Question is where Germany sees itself in the near future.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Here is the interview, Wali nowhere to be seen in the video.



This guy cannot withstand hardship for a month.


----------



## thetutle

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522701912575037441


Maybe Scott Ritter would not mind this.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

LeGenD said:


> Question is where Germany sees itself in the near future.



I hope Germany restores the German empire. They have the aspiration but currently not sufficient population to do so.









German Empire - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## CAPRICORN-88

Bengal71 said:


> If China wants to do that it's not the right time. They should only do it if and when European and American troops get involved.


China has been quite forthcoming with their stance and has shown no ambiguity about it.

China is more concerned like Russia about the biolabs in Ukraine which will affects the entire world. The conflict will be settled one way or another. It is good as the whole world understands the hegemony, double standard and hypocrisy of the West Power.

How can the US and EU freeze the the national bank reserve and assets of a sovereign nation?

What UN law permitted them to do so?

*Why is the US and NATO trying to bait China into the Ukrainian war which has nothing to do with them?*

Since the US and NATO starts all this shit, kindly clean it up themselves.

China is not obliged to HELP EU, the USA or NATO. It is entirely up to Russia now.

Antony Blinkens has just invited a Poor Ukraine President Zalensky to attend the next Rich and Powerful G7 nations meeting.

Purpose: To use HIM.

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## thetutle

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Chechens are just as Russian as anyone born in Moscow. Russia does not document race the way Canada and the US documents race such as White and Black. In Russia if you speak Russian you can identify as ethnic Russian.


Lol, no you cant. They have two words for Russian in russia. one means a "russian" citizen from russia, the other means ethnic russian.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Bengal71 said:


> If China wants to do that it's not the right time. They should only do it if and when European and American troops get involved.



Western society is decadent and gene pool is weak and getting weaker. Americans literally piss their pants when they hear they are going to war. American troops will not fight.








thetutle said:


> Lol, no you cant. They have two words for Russian in russia. one means a "russian" citizen from russia, the other means ethnic russian.



If you speak Russian fluently and permanently reside in Russia you are ethnic Russian. In Russia no one bats an eye about your skin color.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Putin loses 39th colonel in Ukraine War​








Putin loses 39th colonel in Ukraine War in gun battle near Kharkiv


Lt-Col Fezul Bichikaev, 36, (pictured) has become the 39th Russian colonel to die in Ukraine. It came ahead of Putin's ahead of his Victory Day military extravaganza in Moscow tomorrow.




www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523285019623448579


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523307247371427843

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523302861756588032


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Tai Hai Chen said:


> I hope Germany restores the German empire. They have the aspiration but currently not sufficient population to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> German Empire - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


Germany under greenhorns Olaf Scholtz and Annalena Charlotte has blundered very badly.
Germany may go into a recession.

Even Hungary, Slovakia and the Czech Republic understand that their National Interest comes FIRST. 

Now to avoid the splitting up of EU, the EU commission offers concession in the gorm of exemption to these nations. Now will other EU follows suit. 

They sure missed the political shrewness of Chancellor Angela Merkel.

She would have stand up to the US led NATOlile she did with Trump. 

And surely avoid the Ukrainian conflict according to many analysts.

And Nordstream 2 would be in operation. Now Germany lost everything including her reputation as an independent EU leader.


----------



## sammuel

Oldman1 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523033552405004288



Human beings should not be placed in such situations. 


~


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Trophies captured from the Ukrainian armed forces.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523181095604613120


sammuel said:


> Human beings should not be placed in such situations.
> 
> 
> ~




Palestinians are human beings who get massacred, whose land is confiscated, and who faces an apartheid system on daily basis by your state: The only apartheid state on earth. Let us hope and pray the promise day is near - a world where cruel and apartheid state of Israel no longer exists. Spare us with your crocodile tears, buddy.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

A thousand fake tweets won't help Ukraine to win this war. I never bother to watch them. 

It is heading one direction and that is south. 

Russia just sank a Ukrainian Navy warship in Odessa.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523251305191411713

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523100525708910597


----------



## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523046970557878272


----------



## Basel

Apollon said:


> Because it would destroy China as well.
> 
> 
> Will China risk its business with economic giants like EU and USA? For Russia with its anemic. Small . Economy? No.



It's not just about economy now, US and EU are hell bent to keep their rule over the world that is why they predicted 21st century is Asian rise century so they are creating new world order to avoid rise of any Asian power which can challenge their dominance in world and China is primary contender, now strategically it's in China's interest to help Russia and keep US and EU busy in their own backyard, it will allow China to keep pace of its projects and get as much closer to US military capabilities as possible to avoid any Ukraine like situation in Taiwan, one must remember that US has already boots on ground I. Taiwan in name of trainers while military equipment is also being provided to them, also US have practiced how to help Taiwan in case of Chinese invasion, US may create situation in Taiwan which may push China to intervene and it will allow US to drag China in war in Taiwan.



Apollon said:


> In 21st century nothing can be done covertly.



Look around it's happening more then before die to tech like social media.

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## Ich

LeGenD said:


> Disagreed with you on this, dear.
> 
> Americans continue to innovate and produce top-of-the-line technologies. This is lengthy debate and offtopic so I will keep this short.
> 
> Just look at works of Elon Musk. His companies have produced revolutionary technologies. Impact is global, and even Germans are impressed.
> 
> SpaceX starlink cyber system have a major role in making it possible for Ukranians to subvert impact of Russian cyber warfare capabilities and efforts (more than Russian in fact). Russians are in total disbelief and Pentagon is studying starlink cyber system as well. This network alone have made it possible for Ukranians to fight Russia on even playing field.
> 
> Russia was well-equipped to swallow Ukraine otherwise.
> 
> Russian defeat in Ukraine is/would be absolutely stunning development. This war will haunt Russia in the years to come.
> 
> USA is a nation of immigrants as a whole. It is pointless to discuss background of American scientists. They are diverse and mixed.
> 
> American economic system and model is different from traditional economics. They conceptualized Bretton Woods system after the Great Depression of the 1930s. They conceptualized Petro-Dollar system after energy crisis of the 1970s period. They will conceptualize another system if the current system fails. Some of the most brilliant economic minds work there.
> 
> USA is here to stay and people should come to terms with this reality. It is a big country with talented people.
> 
> Modern Global Order favors existence of nation-states. The Age of Empires is gone as you can see in Ukraine.
> 
> Question is where Germany sees itself in the near future.



Well, i can make it short: Do you like Imran Khan?


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

As I said the DNR militia are the one mainly doing the real fighting.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523313288494272512


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

China has never forgive NATO or forgotten about this.

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## Basel

Oldman1 said:


> Stop the west? Who is doing the actually fighting? Ukrainians and Russians. Not NATO or the rest of the world. Would China be glad to send in their top of the line weaponry into Ukraine and let that fall into enemy hands? I'm sure the U.S. and rest of the world be happy to see the insides of China's weaponry.



Who is send arms to Ukraine?? Who is providing ISR, EW capabilities to Ukraine?? Who is allowing ex military people to go fight for Ukraine?? Who have deployed Trainers in Ukraine??

Kindly stop this hypocrisy, and don't try to fool the world, Ukraine crisis/war is created by US and its European NATO allies, at the end only US will get benefit of this conflict.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523286553933451264


----------



## Basel

Broccoli said:


> Who is planning to invade Taiwan?
> 
> Is it China or "the west?



West know that Taiwan is sensitive issue for China and China will not allow Taiwan to be independent state, US is shifting it's policy over Taiwan and now openly helping Taiwan military and supporting them for Independence, US may push Taiwan to apply UN membership and announce Taiwan to be a country, it will put China in very bad situation, lose Taiwan to US (allowing US bases very near to main land China) or go to war to reclaim it where US and its allies will be happy to support Taiwan.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523286553933451264


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Even the Pope blame NATO for the Ukrainian conflict.

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## Basel

Bengal71 said:


> If China wants to do that it's not the right time. They should only do it if and when European and American troops get involved.



US and NATO is using Afghanistan 2.0 tactics here, it will they will not openly send troops but will provide support with ISR, EW, Stats, Comms, weapons, Training and helping in operating/conducting operations etc.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523313986108010496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523236811488718850

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523286553933451264


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## thetutle

Ich said:


> And that was the aim of the US - to split Yugoslavia into lots of little states where they then can control and push Russia out.





Ich said:


> Even the UN admit that bosnian muslims shoot arty at Sarajevo ect. And this the US (Clinton) then used as "fake excuse" to bomb the serbians in Bosnia. It is the same plot as always.


Please stop derailing this thread with cheap Serbian propaganda.


----------



## Ich

thetutle said:


> Please stop derailing this thread with cheap Serbian propaganda.



Its UN official statement. The mechanism behind is the same as the mechanism behind the Ukraine/Russia war is. The mechanism is called US.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Basel said:


> West know that Taiwan is sensitive issue for China and China will not allow Taiwan to be independent state, US is shifting it's policy over Taiwan and now openly helping Taiwan military and supporting them for Independence, US may push Taiwan to apply UN membership and announce Taiwan to be a country, it will put China in very bad situation, lose Taiwan to US (allowing US bases very near to main land China) or go to war to reclaim it where US and its allies will be happy to support Taiwan.



China will break diplomatic relation with the US if the US recognizes Taiwan. US elites would have Biden's guts for gutters when they lose trillions of USD of profit.

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523313986108010496
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523236811488718850
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523286553933451264



Even Wagner admitted it was a Russian helicopter LMAO,desperation must be running high.

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## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Even the Pope blame NATO for the Ukrainian conflict.


Don’t forget, also, the pope blames capitalism, communism, liberty, women rights, Charles Darwin for evolution. He blames everything. Except Putin.
Putin will become the next Pope.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Apollon

Basel said:


> Who is send arms to Ukraine?? Who is providing ISR, EW capabilities to Ukraine?? Who is allowing ex military people to go fight for Ukraine?? Who have deployed Trainers in Ukraine??
> 
> Kindly stop this hypocrisy, and don't try to fool the world, Ukraine crisis/war is created by US and its European NATO allies, at the end only US will get benefit of this conflict.



No, its because Putins Imperialism.


----------



## Ali_Baba

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> A thousand fake tweets won't help Ukraine to win this war. I never bother to watch them.
> 
> It is heading one direction and that is south.
> 
> Russia just sank a Ukrainian Navy warship in Odessa.



So - how many times is Russia going to sink the same Ukrainian ship?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

Ich said:


> Its UN official statement. The mechanism behind is the same as the mechanism behind the Ukraine/Russia war is. The mechanism is called US.


Please dont.


----------



## LeGenD

Ich said:


> Well, i can make it short: Do you like Imran Khan?



Yes, I do. He is the only politician to get my vote twice in 2 consecutive general elections. He have credentials and he is not corrupt like some of his political rivals. His heart is in the right place.

But I do not consider him to be infallible. His mistakes have costed him his seat unfortunately. There were some matters beyond his control but he could show better judgement in some cases. He can learn from his experience nevertheless. There are deliberations and suggestions on these lines. Let us see.

WE should stay on topic now.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523021897960615936

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523340588858368000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523323553705246722


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Even the Pope blame NATO for the Ukrainian conflict.








Caught lying again…
This means that NATO provided a feather, and Putin is calling it a hen.


----------



## Ich

LeGenD said:


> Yes, I do. He is the only politician to get my vote twice in 2 consecutive general elections. He have credentials and he is not corrupt like his political rivals. His heart is in the right place.
> 
> But I do not consider him to be infallible. His mistakes have costed him his seat unfortunately. There were some matters beyond his control but he could show better judgement in some cases. He can learn from his experience nevertheless. There are deliberations and suggestions on these lines. Let us see.
> 
> WE should stay on topic.



Surprise. So me dont understand your believing in western propaganda.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523294188476923907

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523273458716659713

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523239008989421570

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523238316300144640


----------



## The SC

Russian forces intensify their bombing of the city of Kharkiv to prevent the progress of the Ukrainian army


----------



## Ali_Baba

UK to spend another £1.3billion on high-tech kit to help Ukrainian military​








UK to spend another £1.3billion on high-tech kit to help Ukrainian military


BRITAIN will spend a further £1.3billion to help Ukraine's armed forces repel invading Russian forces over the next 12 months, it was announced last night.




www.express.co.uk

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## Elvin

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Chechens scare the crap out Ukrainians



Chechens are similar to Bosniaks in bravery and warring. However, Bosniaks have a intelligentsia establishment, developed institutions that protect their identity, nation and land and would never allow themselves to be used as cannon fodder by the enemy they fought a couple of decades ago. Chechens simply lack this, and can be misused and corrupted easily.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> Russian forces intensify their bombing of the city of Kharkiv to prevent the progress of the Ukrainian army



Kharkiv is 20 km from Russian border. The latest GLONASS guided Smerch round has range 120 km. Think about that. Russians can bomb Kharkiv day and night without ever crossing the border. Sad end for Ukraine's second largest city.


----------



## The SC

From inside the city of Kremenaya.. And exclusive footage of the contact lines in the strategic direction of Severodonetsk and Lesechansk


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523225634335387648


----------



## LeGenD

Ich said:


> Surprise. So me dont understand your believing in western propaganda.



Check this thread and tell me. 

Check this post and tell me.

Which side does not do propaganda? 

How have Russian intervention in Ukraine turned out for its people? Who is suffering in this war? Ukranians and Russians.

Check this post for perspective.

I have nothing against Russians. I am rather surprised that a calculative man like Vladimir Putin could miscalculate on this level.

There is NO solution in blaming the West for everything bad but in sensible politics and positions.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523280064137555974

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523231691267092480

Azov forces: Russian forces have killed about 25,000 people in Mariupol since the start of the battles

@AlArabiya_Brk

They added that they have killed 2500 Russian soldiers and wounded 5000..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523273018059149312


----------



## thetutle

Elvin said:


> Chechens are similar to Bosniaks in bravery and warring. However, Bosniaks have a intelligentsia establishment, developed institutions that protect their identity, nation and land and would never allow themselves to be used as cannon fodder by the enemy they fought a couple of decades ago. Chechens simply lack this, and can be misused and corrupted easily.


Very much so. But to be fair. Bosniaks border Serbia and Chechens had the misfortune to border Russia. I am sure they would swap geography in a heartbeat.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523286163494121472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523286627740975104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523268475946520577


----------



## Basel

Apollon said:


> No, its because Putins Imperialism.



Really! What are you smoking?? NATO expansion towards east is the issue, which Russia had assurance from US and UK will not happen, NATO rejected when Putin asked for it's membership now NATO is at the border of Russia and you think Russia will keep quite about it.

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## thetutle

LeGenD said:


> I have nothing against Russians. I am rather surprised that a calculative man like Vladimir Putin could miscalculate on this level.


Yes, he was put in a difficult situation. he had to choose if russia will go quietly into the night or self destruct with all guns blazing. He chose to go all guns blazing. I think he figured russia was on a long term spiral downwards, adding Ukraine and 44 milion new slaves to his empire would revitalise it. 

He was upset that CIA took Ukraine over in 2014 and it was never coming back. He rightly figured that USA will never stop and keep taking chunks of the russian sphere of influence. one by one. And he was right. the only thing he miscalculated was that he could stop this process with war. He can't. 

All he did is expose russian weakness and accelerated the process of Russia's destruction and the elimination of its sphere of influence. 

I thought he would invade in 2015. I cant believe he waited this long.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Basel said:


> Really! What are you smoking?? NATO expansion towards east is the issue, which Russia had assurance from US and UK will not happen, NATO rejected when Putin asked for it's membership now NATO is at the border of Russia and you think Russia will keep quite about it.



That's right. US rejected Russia's NATO membership bid because US goal is wiping Russia off the map, essentially genocide, because Russia does not kowtow to US.

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## The SC




----------



## Broccoli

One T-72 less. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523290805762686976


----------



## Ich

LeGenD said:


> Check this thread and tell me.
> 
> Check this post and tell me.
> 
> Which side does not do propaganda?
> 
> How have Russian intervention in Ukraine turned out for its people? Who is suffering in this war? Ukranians and Russians.
> 
> Check this post for perspective.
> 
> I have nothing against Russians. I am rather surprised that a calculative man like Vladimir Putin could miscalculate on this level.
> 
> There is NO solution in blaming the West for everything bad but in sensible politics and positions.



Well, in your first link (which i already read a month ago or so) there are a lot of western sources which had proven told lies over decades.

Your second link (which i also already read cause you already linked it to me a month ago or so) is also biased. For example "Georgia (2008) - invasion" - what is a lie. Sakashwilli/Georgia first attacked Russia (in the hope to become member of the EU and NATO). Even the EU admit it









EU-Bericht bestätigt, dass Georgien 2008 den Krieg mit Russland begann


Das Nachrichtenmagazin




www.hintergrund.de





So as you can see a lot "sources" that you - honorable wise - try to give the members at hand are sources which lie as long as they can go if it is against a non westener state. And even against a westener state if it would demask US bullshit.

Edit:

Found an english version from a source you prefer









Georgia started war with Russia: EU-backed report


An independent report blamed Georgia on Wednesday for starting last year's five-day war with Russia, but said Moscow's military response went beyond reasonable limits and violated international law.




www.reuters.com

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

Ich said:


> Your second link (which i also already read cause you already linked it to me a month ago or so) is also biased. For example "Georgia (2008) - invasion" - what is a lie. Sakashwilli/Georgia first attacked Russia (in the hope to become member of the EU and NATO). Even the EU admit it


I think by posting such easily provable lies and misinformation, this forumer is not only disrespecting the forum, but making fun of the moderators.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Broccoli said:


> One T-72 less.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523290805762686976



Almost all tanks are repaired and put back into action. Only about 1% of damaged tanks are written off. There are even field repair facilities.



The SC said:


> View attachment 842232



It looks like after Donbas is done they go after Kharkiv city which is very near Russian border.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523273539981258752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523296431238696960


----------



## Apollon

Basel said:


> Really! What are you smoking?? NATO expansion towards east is the issue, which Russia had assurance from US and UK will not happen, NATO rejected when Putin asked for it's membership now NATO is at the border of Russia and you think Russia will keep quite about it.



Dude countries are free to chose alliance. Eastern europe was violated by russia for centuries. NATO gives them security. 


On a sidenote, with russias criminal war it became irrelevant what russia wants. It needs to be permanently crushed.


----------



## Ich

thetutle said:


> I think by posting such easily provable lies and misinformation, this forumer is not only disrespecting the forum, but making fun of the moderators.



Eat this! And stop spreading lies!









Georgia started war with Russia: EU-backed report


An independent report blamed Georgia on Wednesday for starting last year's five-day war with Russia, but said Moscow's military response went beyond reasonable limits and violated international law.




www.reuters.com

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

Apollon said:


> Dude countries are free to chose alliance. Eastern europe was violated by russia for centuries. NATO gives them security.
> 
> 
> On a sidenote, with russias criminal war it became irrelevant what russia wants. It needs to be permanently crushed.


everyone in the west realises this. And it will be.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Almost all tanks are repaired and put back into action. Only about 1% of damaged tanks are written off. There are even field repair facilities.



A bit like this? :

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523258509998972928

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523268904445157376

Reactions: Like Like:
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## DF41

Ich said:


> Yes. I can see it daily in this thread.


Especially from one that cannot be answered back to
and that I prefer not to read at all as his biasness coupled with righteousness upset my digestion
and I cannot put him where sun and moon do not shine


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> Dude countries are free to chose alliance. Eastern europe was violated by russia for centuries. NATO gives them security.
> 
> 
> On a sidenote, with russias criminal war it became irrelevant what russia wants. It needs to be permanently crushed.



You watch way too much Hollywood. To be honest Hollywood is crap these days. Rocky IV was really good anti Russia propaganda. The new Daredevil TV series is crappy anti Russia propaganda.





The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523258509998972928
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523268904445157376



Chechens are given land they take from Ukrainians. Mariupol will become the second Grozny. Chechen population will be vastly increasing with more land.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523234427299528704

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523355481418321921

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523342378311901185

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523340273022955521

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523336654404038657


----------



## mulj

Ich said:


> My statements are proven right
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Propaganda im Jugoslawienkrieg
> 
> 
> Beim Jugoslawienkrieg der 1990er Jahre ging es aus geopolitischer Sicht um eine Neuordnung Südosteuropas nach dem Ende des Kalten Krieges. Die USA nutzten dazu auch jene Milizen, mit denen sie zuvor in Afghanistan die UdSSR bekämpften, und die sie später »Al Kaida« nennen sollten.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> swprs.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> in english
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Propaganda in the War on Yugoslavia
> 
> 
> From a geopolitical perspective, the war on Yugoslavia in the 1990s was about restructuring Southeast Europe after the end of the Cold War. To this end, the US even deployed the combatants with which it had previously fought the USSR in Afghanistan and which it would later call "Al Qaeda".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> swprs.org


Your statments are utter bulshit probably from some twisted ideological background.
Your ignorance is not exuse for stupid claims about my country.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523300085341196289

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523297446738030593

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523287215748444160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523232120835035137


----------



## DF41

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Palestinians are human beings who get massacred, whose land is confiscated, and who faces an apartheid system on daily basis by your state: The only apartheid state on earth. Let us hope and pray the promise day is near - a world where cruel and apartheid state of Israel no longer exists. Spare us with your crocodile tears, buddy.




This is amonge the aspects that make me loath and detest USA so much

Joining Israel in practically gang raping of Palestinians and embargo of arms to Palestinians while supplying Israel with all the arms Israel wanted.

Quite likely including nukes for Israel

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## zartosht

today *1 USD = 66 RUBLES *

Before the war it was hovering around *1 USD= 75-80 rubles*

March 6th, *1 USD = 135 rubles *

The ruble lost half its value in a few days after western sanctions shock. It is unbelievable how the Western propaganda machines are ignoring this. "crippling western sanctions" "Russia collapse" was all they were screaming about when the ruble plunged.. what happened?

Youtube comment of the day I read:

4 stages of western depression/grief:

1. Denial
2. Depression 
3. Anger
4. Paying in Rubles

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Trango Towers

The SC said:


> Japan refused to join the embargo on oil imports from Russia, - the government
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522125787893219329
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522125370975297536
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522123593227939840


During the chechen war Ukrainians commided heinous crimes in chechenya. Payback is a b1tch


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523219157965164545

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523215972840067073

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523254413691088897

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523309399577530368


----------



## LeGenD

Ich said:


> Well, in your first link (which i already read a month ago or so) there are a lot of western sources which had proven told lies over decades.
> 
> Your second link (which i also already read cause you already linked it to me a month ago or so) is also biased. For example "Georgia (2008) - invasion" - what is a lie. Sakashwilli/Georgia first attacked Russia (in the hope to become member of the EU and NATO). Even the EU admit it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU-Bericht bestätigt, dass Georgien 2008 den Krieg mit Russland begann
> 
> 
> Das Nachrichtenmagazin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hintergrund.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So as you can see a lot "sources" that you - honorable wise - try to give the members at hand are sources which lie as long as they can go if it is against a non westener state. And even against a westener state if it would demask US bullshit.



This is not a valid argument. My thread contain links which provide professional coverage of the war (Mapping Information; Facts & Figures), and links which debunk disinformation in relation to the war.

My thread is not a collection of subjective viewpoints - Russian or Western. You get plenty of both in this thread.

My 2nd link is apolitical and factual as well. The link you shared is peer-reviewed? Never seen it before.

Much better information in following links:






Behind the scenes of the Russia-Georgia conflict


17 September 2008 Nina Markovic Foreign Affairs, Defence and Security Section Contents Introduction Background to the conflict War in South Ossetia




www.aph.gov.au










Georgia/Russia, Independent International Fact-Finding Mission on the Conflict in South Ossetia | How does law protect in war? - Online casebook







casebook.icrc.org





You need to understand that no country accepts separatism by default. Georgia was experiencing separatism in South Ossetia and Abkhazia respectively. These regions demanded political autonomy and chose the path of separatism upon refusal. Russia was supporting separatists in this matter. Georgian leadership(s) attempted to bring these regions to the fold through use of force but Russia under Putin administration annexed them in 2008. Georgia could not fight Russia of-course.

Russia is repeating similar game in Ukraine. Check following report:









Full Report: Russian Officers and Militants Identified as Perpetrators of the January 2015 Mariupol Artillery Strike - bellingcat


The full investigation can be downloaded here A collection of intercepted phone conversations that were used as research materials in this investigation can be accessed here Our directory of archived videos of the Mariupol shelling and its aftermath can be accessed here Our map summarizing the...




www.bellingcat.com





Russia have its rationale for intervention in political affairs of other countries but it is logical and sensible to respect internationally recognized borders of any country.

OR

Russia is allowed to reshape countries around it as it sees fit?

International order should have rules, or WE are back to the Age of Empires and nothing changed.

What if other big countries start doing the same?

Would you welcome balkanization of Germany? Your country was split between NATO and USSR in times of the Cold War but Pakistan and NATO made it possible for your country to reunite. Be thankful to these forces including my country.

To be fair to Russians, their decision to defeat separatism in Chechnya is *FINE*. Chechnya was not an independent SSR.

Same principle extends to other countries.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523244600738992129


LeGenD said:


> International order should have rules, or WE are back to the Age of Empires and nothing changed.



Human nature does not change. Human nature is shaped by millions of years of evolution. War is human nature. Every day since the dawn of humanity there is war. Just because you don't see it in the news does not mean it is not happening. The denial of war is keeping your head in the sand.


----------



## Ich

mulj said:


> Your statments are utter bulshit probably from some twisted ideological background.
> Your ignorance is not exuse for stupid claims about my country.



This "claims" are from the UN and the UN personal who were on spot.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ich

LeGenD said:


> The link you shared is peer-reviewed? Never seen it before



Sure, most of the people in the world dont know the fact that Georgia attacked Russia first. But for you here is a source you prefer









Georgia started war with Russia: EU-backed report


An independent report blamed Georgia on Wednesday for starting last year's five-day war with Russia, but said Moscow's military response went beyond reasonable limits and violated international law.




www.reuters.com





So please change your list in the second link. 

Also Krim was no invasion. Krim had the right to move away from Ukraine and did it by peoples referendum as it was given in their special statutes. So no invasion.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RescueRanger

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523172350233317376


Oh wow that’s finally intact - this is embarrassing.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523307420701032450

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523239834948489216

Reactions: Sad Sad:
1


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## RescueRanger

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523046970557878272


This is very sad.


----------



## thetutle

DF41 said:


> This is amonge the aspects that make me loath and detest USA so much
> 
> Joining Israel in practically gang raping of Palestinians and embargo of arms to Palestinians while supplying Israel with all the arms Israel wanted.
> 
> Quite likely including nukes for Israel


And china sees this happening and decides to establish excellent relations with Israel and not help the Palestinians at all. Nice



zartosht said:


> today *1 USD = 66 RUBLES *
> 
> Before the war it was hovering around *1 USD= 75-80 rubles*
> 
> March 6th, *1 USD = 135 rubles *
> 
> The ruble lost half its value in a few days after western sanctions shock. It is unbelievable how the Western propaganda machines are ignoring this. "crippling western sanctions" "Russia collapse" was all they were screaming about when the ruble plunged.. what happened?
> 
> Youtube comment of the day I read:
> 
> 4 stages of western depression/grief:
> 
> 1. Denial
> 2. Depression
> 3. Anger
> 4. Paying in Rubles


Do you have any Rubles? If you do, why dont you try buying some USD with them. See how it goes for you. 

Make sure you tell the Bank you want USD at the advertised rate of 1USD = 66 Rubles. 
Or tell the black market money changer you want that rate. See what they say.



Trango Towers said:


> During the chechen war Ukrainians commided heinous crimes in chechenya. Payback is a b1tch


When will they pay the Russians back?


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Basel said:


> Really! What are you smoking?? NATO expansion towards east is the issue, which Russia had assurance from US and UK will not happen, NATO rejected when Putin asked for it's membership now NATO is at the border of Russia and you think Russia will keep quite about it



Russia and Nato signed an agreement in 1997 where Russia agreed that Ukraine (and anyone else) have the right to become a NATO member.






Founding Act on Mutual Relations, Cooperation and Security between NATO and the Russian Federation signed in Paris, France







www.nato.int





Any alledged promises before that are invalidated by the agreement.


----------



## Ich

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Russia and Nato signed an agreement in 1997 where Russia agreed that Ukraine (and anyone else) have the right to become a NATO member.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Founding Act on Mutual Relations, Cooperation and Security between NATO and the Russian Federation signed in Paris, France
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nato.int
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any alledged promises before that are invalidated by the agreement.



Can you show me a russian equivalent to this? NATO lied a lot since existing.

Edit:

I read it and surprise: Ukraine is not mentioned.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Flight of falcon

Ali_Baba said:


> A bit like this? :





This is more of Ukraine dn Russia fight......Zelenski being the black knight...

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## LeGenD

No country accepts separatism by default.

Russian decision to overcome separatist movement of Chechnya is acceptable. Chechnya was not one of the Soviet Socialist Republics.

Georgia had similar problem in South Ossetia and Abkhazia respectively. Its rationale to overcome separatist movement in these regions was acceptable but Russia annexed these lands in 2008. Others watched in silence.

Ukraine had problems in Donbas and Crimea respectively but Russia went out of its way to engineer and support separatism in these locations and annexed Crimea in 2014. Others watched in silence.

This was not enough either.

Russians decided to take this matter to next level by invading Ukraine proper in 2022. It was at this stage that US/NATO drew a line and decided to teach Russia a lesson.

Point is that what is acceptable in case of Russia, is fair for other countries as well.

Those who are patronizing Russia in this matter - think about your country for a change. Should it be balkanized? Maybe US/NATO should do the honors?

This is a matter of having principles.

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## mulj

Ich said:


> This "claims" are from the UN and the UN personal who were on spot



Fhat serbs were opressed, that genocide did not happen? Sorry, now i doubt in your sanity.


----------



## Ich

LeGenD said:


> No country accepts separatism by default.
> 
> Russian decision to overcome separatist movement of Chechnya is acceptable. Chechnya was not one of the Soviet Socialist Republics.
> 
> Georgia had similar problem in South Ossetia and Abkhazia respectively. Its rationale to overcome separatist movement in these regions was acceptable but Russia annexed these lands in 2008. Others watched in silence.
> 
> Ukraine had problems in Donbas and Crimea respectively but Russia went out of its way to engineer and support separatism in these locations and annexed Crimea in 2014. Others watched in silence.
> 
> This was not enough either.
> 
> Russians decided to take this matter to next level by invading Ukraine proper in 2022. It was at this stage that US/NATO drew line and decided to teach Russia a lesson.
> 
> Point is that what is acceptable for Russia, is fair for other countries by extension.
> 
> Those who are patronizing Russia in this matter - think about your country for a change. Should it be balkanized? Maybe US/NATO should do the honors?
> 
> This is a matter of having principles.



So you would give back Kosovo to Serbia? As we all know the media and the Attackers lied about what happened in Kosovo, Even German defence minister Rudolf Scharping admitted it. Also there was no allow by UN. It was an illegal war of aggression by NATO.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Ich said:


> Can you show me a russian equivalent to this? NATO lied a lot since existing.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> I read it and surprise: Ukraine is not mentioned.


Ukraine is a sovereign nation. The rest follows.

The document is registered at the United Nations.


----------



## The SC

Arrival in Ukraine of the American M777 howitzer and the Australian Bushmaster armored vehicles

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## Ich

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Ukraine is a sovereign nation. The rest follows.
> 
> The document is registered at the United Nations.



But no word about Ukraine in the document you provided. You said in your post that that document would prove that Russia admits the NATO join of Ukraine. But Ukraine even doesnt exists as word in the document you provided.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Ich said:


> So you would give back Kosovo to Serbia? As we all know the media and the Attackers lied about what happened in Kosovo, Even German defence minister Rudolf Scharping admitted it. Also there was no allow by UN. It was an illegal war of aggression by NATO.


And the genocides committed by the Serbs during the Yugoslav wars were Crimes against Humanity.
Srebrenica the most prominent example.
Russia violated the UN Charter by vetoing the resolutions that should put a stop to the Serbian killings.



Ich said:


> But no word about Ukraine in the document you provided. You said in your post that that document would prove that Russia admits the NATO join of Ukraine. But Ukraine even doesnt exists as word in the document you provided.


If you cannot put 2 and 2 together, you should probably not discuss politics.


respect for sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of *all states* and their inherent right to choose the means to ensure their own security, the inviolability of borders and peoples' right of self-determination as enshrined in the Helsinki Final Act and other OSCE documents;
As Ukraine is a state, they have the sovereign right to choose the means of their own security.
That includes joining NATO, and NATO countries have a sovereign right to accept the application.

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## Paul2

Broccoli said:


> China is a single party state and if the leader isn't good it means they can do it even thought it causes huge problems... Putin is surrounded by yes men and you gotta wonder if Xi has done the same.



I will tell you following about how Beijing been working starting circa 2015:


Xi is an insecure man. Above all Xi is insecure about his intellectual achievements
He has a far from publicity team of 7 advisers. They are not bad at all indeed. They are very "Zhou types"
These advisers basically put ready documents on the table, and tell Xi to sign them. Aside from cases when Xi slams the table, and says "things will go my way" all major policy trends coming from him are their inventions + few other people having his ears.
Xi is super reliant on them, and very conscious of exposing that to wider world
The only thing he drives personally is his (anti-) party politics. He is a veteran party politician, he is very good at fending off internal competition
Basically, the yesman is he himself. While I admin these 7 have a grain of talent, they don't do more for him than basically reading some Western policy journal, and picking some safe ways to capitalise on already existing trends.


----------



## _Nabil_

RoadAmerica said:


> He wants nuclear war and is fine with himself being dead, hence please skip the first part and proceed to the second.
> 
> I find it funny the hate towards Americans by some here. Every civilization has done good and bad, not one is perfect.
> Just remember America could simply stop providing food aid to Africa and millions would die in 12 months. They could also stop donating and providing aid after every world disaster. I think it’s clear the good outweighs the bad.
> 
> Take a minute and reflect, Russia, China, the Eu don’t provide anywhere near the free aid the US does, so next time you’re chanting death to America remember it’s death to millions around the world as well.





RoadAmerica said:


> As if everyone else isn’t 🤷🏿‍♂️
> Thanks for ignoring my post, just proving my point.
> For the record, If it was on a ballot I’d vote to end our generosity all together, the world would be a much more dangerous place and not for me.
> 
> 
> Exactly we can agree on that 👍🏿


You can keep your so called "Generosity" and put it wherever you want. ✌️

just stop : making wars, supporting dictators, destabilisation of elected regimes, financing terrorists, .....


The millions of deaths you caused, are still not enough for you??

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## J dud

LeGenD said:


> This is not a valid argument. My thread contain links which provide professional coverage of the war (Mapping Information; Facts & Figures), and links which debunk disinformation in relation to the war.
> 
> My thread is not a collection of subjective viewpoints - Russian or Western. You get plenty of both in this thread.
> 
> My 2nd link is apolitical and factual as well. The link you shared is peer-reviewed? Never seen it before.
> 
> Much better information in following links:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Behind the scenes of the Russia-Georgia conflict
> 
> 
> 17 September 2008 Nina Markovic Foreign Affairs, Defence and Security Section Contents Introduction Background to the conflict War in South Ossetia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aph.gov.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Georgia/Russia, Independent International Fact-Finding Mission on the Conflict in South Ossetia | How does law protect in war? - Online casebook
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> casebook.icrc.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to understand that no country accepts separatism by default. Georgia was experiencing separatism in South Ossetia and Abkhazia respectively. These regions demanded political autonomy and chose the path of separatism upon refusal. Russia was supporting separatists in this matter. Georgian leadership(s) attempted to bring these regions to the fold through use of force but Russia under Putin administration annexed them in 2008. Georgia could not fight Russia of-course.
> 
> Russia is repeating similar game in Ukraine. Check following report:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Full Report: Russian Officers and Militants Identified as Perpetrators of the January 2015 Mariupol Artillery Strike - bellingcat
> 
> 
> The full investigation can be downloaded here A collection of intercepted phone conversations that were used as research materials in this investigation can be accessed here Our directory of archived videos of the Mariupol shelling and its aftermath can be accessed here Our map summarizing the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bellingcat.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia have its rationale for intervention in political affairs of other countries but it is logical and sensible to respect internationally recognized borders of any country.
> 
> OR
> 
> Russia is allowed to reshape countries around it as it sees fit?
> 
> International order should have rules, or WE are back to the Age of Empires and nothing changed.
> 
> What if other big countries start doing the same?
> 
> Would you welcome balkanization of Germany? Your country was split between NATO and USSR in times of the Cold War but Pakistan and NATO made it possible for your country to reunite. Be thankful to these forces including my country.
> 
> To be fair to Russians, their decision to defeat separatism in Chechnya is *FINE*. Chechnya was not an independent SSR.
> 
> Same principle extends to other countries.



While i agree that we are not in the age of empires and territorial integrity / sovereignity should be respected by all. 

But most of the countries we are talking about are a result of balkanization of ussr ! 

And the split of these countries was not as simple . A significant portion of the population of these countries wanted to be with ussr ! Even currently we see the older generation of eastern Ukrainians prefer to be russian contrary to what most people believe. 


I am fully against the war in ukraine . And putin made a grave mistake by invading ukraine. But the situation is not as straightforward as some people believe it to be.

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## LeGenD

Ich said:


> So you would give back Kosovo to Serbia? As we all know the media and the Attackers lied about what happened in Kosovo, Even German defence minister Rudolf Scharping admitted it. Also there was no allow by UN. It was an illegal war of aggression by NATO.



Yugoslavia was composed of 6 republics: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Slovenia. In addition to the six republics, the two separate regions of Kosovo and Vojvodina held the status of autonomous provinces within the Republic of Serbia. Yugoslavia was a mix of ethnic groups and religions, with Orthodox Christianity, Catholicism and Islam being the main religions.

Yugoslavian effort to prevent its disintegration was acceptable decision on the face of it. But Yugoslavian nationalists and politicians made gross miscalculations.





__





The Conflicts | International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia







www.icty.org









__





Yugoslavia's Collapse: National Suicide with Foreign Assistance on JSTOR


Robert M. Hayden, Yugoslavia's Collapse: National Suicide with Foreign Assistance, Economic and Political Weekly, Vol. 27, No. 27 (Jul. 4, 1992), pp. 1377-1382




www.jstor.org





Yugoslavian breakup process was very violent and resulted in 6 different countries.

There is a lesson in this case for aspiring nationalists. It is important to understand people around you and respect the strings that hold them together.

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## Ich

LeGenD said:


> There is a lesson in this case for aspiring nationalists. It is important to understand people around you and respect the strings that hold them together.



So Donbas and southern Ukraine no "lessons" are allowed? As you can see there is always a flaw in western argumentation.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523338488082407424

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523333059348676609

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## LeGenD

Ich said:


> So Donbas and southern Ukraine no "lessons" are allowed? As you can see there is always a flaw in western argumentation.



You are ignoring the fact that Russia went to great lengths to engineer separatism in these regions. Relevant reports for consultation below:









Lessons from Russia's Operations in Ukraine


Russia's annexation of Crimea was a decisive use of military force toward political ends. But Russia benefited from favorable circumstances that make this hard to replicate. Moscow likely considers its campaign in Eastern Ukraine a strategic success but an unsuccessful operation.




www.rand.org













Full Report: Russian Officers and Militants Identified as Perpetrators of the January 2015 Mariupol Artillery Strike - bellingcat


The full investigation can be downloaded here A collection of intercepted phone conversations that were used as research materials in this investigation can be accessed here Our directory of archived videos of the Mariupol shelling and its aftermath can be accessed here Our map summarizing the...




www.bellingcat.com





Read them.

Russia found it easier to take Crimea but Donbas have mixed population base where many are accepting of Zelenskyy administration. How do you think Mariupol resisted for so long? This is but one location. There are pockets of resistance in other locations as well. Just look at the number of Russian troops involved in this location.

There is a limit to how much commoners can resist by the way. Many are not trained to fight a war. Russia is also forcibly deporting as many commoners as it can to its mainland to give the impression that these are refugees. Some have managed to escape from Russia and exposed this development. Russians will tell you a different story of-course.

Even a Russian source is admitting the obvious:









Fear and Uncertainty For Ukrainians Forced to Flee to Russia - The Moscow Times


After three weeks of sheltering in their basement, Marina, Sergei and their two children, aged 6 and 19, made the difficult decision to flee their home in northeastern Ukraine — but unlike millions of other Ukrainians, they headed east rather than west.




www.themoscowtimes.com





Ukranian refugees in Russia are not happy. They want to leave.

Let me tell you something. You cannot understand an act of oppression until you live through it.


----------



## Viet

FACT SHEET: United States and G7 Partners Impose Severe Costs for Putin’s War Against Ukraine​MAY 08, 2022STATEMENTS AND RELEASES
President Biden and G7 Leaders Meet with President Zelenskyy to Continue our Efforts to Support Ukraine and Build on our Unprecedented Sanctions and Export Controls
Today, President Biden and G7 Leaders met with President Zelenskyy of Ukraine to reinforce our shared commitment to strengthen Ukraine’s position on the battlefield and at the negotiating table.

Our unprecedented sanctions are already exacting an immense toll on Russia’s economy and our export controls have strangled Russia’s access to critical technology and the supply chains it needs to sustain its military ambitions. Putin’s war is projected to wipe out the last 15 years of economic gains in Russia. As a result of our export controls, Russia is struggling to replenish its military weapons and equipment. Russia’s two major tank plants – Uralvagonzavod Corporation and Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant – have halted work due to lack of foreign components. Almost 1,000 private sector companies have left Russia, and reports indicate that more than 200,000 Russians, many of whom are highly skilled, have fled the country. All of these costs will compound and intensify over time.

Putin has failed in his initial military objective to dominate Ukraine – but he has succeeded in making Russia a global pariah. Today, the United States, the European Union and G7 committed to ratchet up these costs by collectively taking further measures, consistent with each partner’s respective legal authorities and processes.

Targeting State-Controlled Media Within Russia That Bolster Putin’s War. The United States will sanction three of Russia’s most highly-viewed directly or indirectly state-controlled television stations in Russia – Joint Stock Company Channel One Russia, Television Station Russia-1, and Joint Stock Company NTV Broadcasting Company. All three stations have been among the largest recipients of foreign revenue, which feeds back to the Russian State’s revenue.

Banning Services that Help Finance Putin’s War and Aid Sanctions Evasion. The United States will prohibit U.S. persons from providing accounting, trust and corporate formation, and management consulting services to any person in the Russian Federation. These services are key to Russian companies and elites building wealth, thereby generating revenue for Putin’s war machine, and to trying to hide that wealth and evade sanctions. This action builds on previous prohibitions to restrict the export of goods related to aerospace, marine, electronics, technology, and defense and related materiel sectors of the Russian economy.

Cutting off Imports of Russian Oil and Reducing Dependence on Russian Energy. The United States has already banned the import of Russian oil, gas, and coal. Today, the entire G7 committed to phasing out or banning the import of Russian oil. This will hit hard at the main artery of Putin’s economy and deny him the revenue he needs to fund his war. The G7 also committed to work together to ensure stable global energy supplies, while accelerating our efforts to reduce dependence on fossil fuels.

Impose further export controls and sanctions to degrade Russia’s war efforts. The United States will issue a new rule that imposes additional restrictions on Russia’s industrial sector, including a broad range of inputs and products including wood products, industrial engines, boilers, motors, fans, and ventilation equipment, bulldozers, and many other items with industrial and commercial applications. These new controls will further limit Russia’s access to items and revenue that could support its military capabilities. The United States also sanctioned Limited Liability Company Promtekhnologiya, which produces rifles and other weapons that have been used in military operations in Ukraine; seven shipping companies, which own or operate 69 vessels; and one marine towing company. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission will also suspend general licenses for exports of source material, special nuclear material, byproduct material, and deuterium to Russia.

Impose Sanctions on Russian Elites and their Family Members and Visa Restrictions on Russian and Belarusian Officials Undermining the Sovereignty, Territorial Integrity, or Political Independence of Ukraine. The United States imposed approximately 2,600 visa restrictions on Russian and Belarusian officials in response to their ongoing efforts to undermine the sovereignty, territorial integrity, or political independence of Ukraine. Additionally, the United States issued a new visa restriction policy that applies to Russian Federation military officials and Russia-backed or Russia-installed purported authorities who are believed to have been involved in human rights abuses, violations of international humanitarian law, or public corruption in Ukraine. The United States also sanctioned eight executives from Sberbank– the largest financial institution in Russia and uniquely important to the Russian economy, holding about a third of all bank assets in Russia; twenty-seven executives from Gazprombank – a prominent Russian bank facilitating business by Russia’s Gazprom, one of the largest natural gas exporters in the world; and Moscow Industrial Bank and its ten subsidiaries.









FACT SHEET: United States and G7 Partners Impose Severe Costs for Putin’s War Against Ukraine | The White House


President Biden and G7 Leaders Meet with President Zelenskyy to Continue our Efforts to Support Ukraine and Build on our Unprecedented Sanctions and




www.whitehouse.gov


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523381104589168640


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523354677676412934

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523338736913764352


----------



## dBSPL

Bayraktar TB2 armed UAV belonging to the Ukrainian army neutralized the Russian Mi-8 utility helicopter, which landed soldiers on the Snake Island, with ROKETSAN MAM-L smart munition.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523202242052227072
Two points are important here:
1- Russian military assets were neutralized by TB-2 supported operations for the third time on this island. First, the radar and air defense systems on islet were neutralized. Then the deployment with military landing craft was neutralized just before installation. Now at the same point, the helicopter carrying the special operations soldiers was destroyed.

2- The TB-2 may be the first tactical armed system in the world to shoot down helicopters(as like naval assets) in operation. It has an incredible kill mark list with thousands of successful engagements, and adding yet another unusual hit to it every day.


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## Basel

Apollon said:


> Dude countries are free to chose alliance. Eastern europe was violated by russia for centuries. NATO gives them security.
> 
> 
> On a sidenote, with russias criminal war it became irrelevant what russia wants. It needs to be permanently crushed.



Kindly stop your hypocrisy, west has shown that they can't be trusted, Russia has faced it first hand, if US and UK had not given assurances to Russia, you have not seen reunion of Germany and freedom of 12 states from USSR, kindly get your facts right, also west is not saint either, since centuries west have also colonized, killed slaved and looted other countries and their people, even in last 2 decades west has killed millions of people in ME in wars started on lies, so why no war crime proceedings on those, specially war on Iraq and Libya??

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## Vergennes

To be honest I knew the Russian army was incompetent,but this level of incompetence ? Regrouping the equivalent of a BTG on such a small land area,visible from kilometers without any cover or camouflage,with all the drones that are flying in the area and in range of the ennemy's artillery.... @LeGenD @F-22Raptor


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523341207484571652


----------



## Basel

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Russia and Nato signed an agreement in 1997 where Russia agreed that Ukraine (and anyone else) have the right to become a NATO member.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Founding Act on Mutual Relations, Cooperation and Security between NATO and the Russian Federation signed in Paris, France
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nato.int
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any alledged promises before that are invalidated by the agreement.



If NATO is not against Russia then why NATO didn't allow Russia to join it??

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## The SC

A Ukrainian OMON officer has delivered 50 assault rifles and boxes of grenades to the Russian Armed Forces


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523366031468625921

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523337769547882496


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523356162187538434

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523367169530159104


----------



## Viet

The incoming oil embargo by the EU will wreck havoc on Russia finances, oil industry. If Putin can’t quickly find alternative customers, and due to fact that Russia lacks strategic oil storages, the oil wells will collapse.

Once the wells collapse it will be extremely difficult and costly to reopen.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523390839447121920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523397510747672576


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523378228903174148


----------



## F-22Raptor

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523367169530159104




Russia has already strategically lost. This must be difficult to accept. Russian forces that remain in Ukraine will be destroyed. 

Putin has 2 choices. Either accept defeat, or keep sending in forces to be slaughtered to the point where it will take decades to recover.

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## Ich

LeGenD said:


> You are ignoring the fact that Russia went to great lengths to engineer separatism in these regions. I shared a report with you in one of my posts. Go through it. People are clearly identified.



Ah, so why was Minsk I+II and why was there a paragraph which said that Donbas is part of Ukraine, but autonome? So how can you then say that russia tried to separate the Donbas when Russia signed Minsk I+II? And Ukraine broke Minsk I+II by bombing te people in Donbas. 



LeGenD said:


> Russia found it easier to take Crimea


Krim has held a people referendum. They had the special rights to do it. It is like Bayern or Sachsen in Germany. If they want to leave they can leave after peoples referendum. All other states in Germany cant. And the same it was with Krim. And they use it. So no "Russia take Krim". Please inform yourself about the special rights of the Krim at that time.



LeGenD said:


> There is a limit to how much commoners can resist by the way



The Donbas (Donetsk/Lugansk) had 8 years of bombing and killing through Kiew. Tens of thousands dead, killed by Kiew. They learned to fight the hard way. Strelkov? Motorolla? Givi? Ever heard these Names? Or the circumstances they were in?



LeGenD said:


> Ukranian refugees in Russia are not happy. They want to leave.



Well, would the way through the battlefield been better for them? Through arty and bombs ect.? Or was it in the rules of the Genua conventions to bring the civilist on a safe way out of the warzone? 



LeGenD said:


> Let me tell you something. You cannot understand an act of oppression until you live through it. Stop being naive.



What do you know of what all happened in my life? Nothing! So only you are naiv in your view about me. I hope for you you never will be forced to change it.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> The incoming oil embargo by the EU will wreck havoc on Russia finances, oil industry. If Putin can’t quickly find alternative customers, and due to fact that Russia lacks strategic oil storages, the oil wells will collapse.
> 
> Once the wells collapse it will be extremely difficult and costly to reopen.



You should apply for a job as a screenwriter for Hollywood.



Ich said:


> The Donbas (Donetsk/Lugansk) had 8 years of bombing and killing through Kiew. Tens of thousands dead, killed by Kiew.



Agreed. To Americans the lives of Donbas people are worth nothing simply because they do not kowtow to Americans.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Basel said:


> Kindly stop your hypocrisy, west has shown that they can't be trusted, Russia has faced it first hand, if US and UK had not given assurances to Russia, you have not seen reunion of Germany and freedom of 12 states from USSR, kindly get your facts right, also west is not saint either, since centuries west have also colonized, killed slaved and looted other countries and their people, even in last 2 decades west has killed millions of people in ME in wars started on lies, so why no war crime proceedings on those, specially war on Iraq and Libya??


The assurance related to the German Unification was that they would not have NATO troops in former Eastern Europe.
NATO and Russia signed an agreement in 1997 covering NATO expansion, read about it instead of repeating Russian lies.
The West has not killed millions in the Middle East.
The majority killed are killed by other people from the Middle East.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523368617987162112

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1 | Wow Wow:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522849563576610817


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523378228903174148



Oh shucks. This calls for a second Crimean war level of military intervention but by now western society is so decadent they can no longer fight.






compared to


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523394314193178624

Russian losses now at 3,500


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523394314193178624
> 
> Russian losses now at 3,500



Already replaced with newly produced hardware.

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## dBSPL

I dont know if any of you remember but, Wagner mercenaries in favor of the putschists in Libya tried to make propaganda by loading the TB-2 wreckage into a pickup truck and photographing it in different places.

Now same thing again.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520002204651900928
If the Russians had been as diligent on the battlefield as they were in propaganda works as like, their current situation would have been much better than they are now.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523406531974565888


----------



## LeGenD

I noticed that Russian perspective is relatively balanced in following link:









The Moscow Times


Independent news from Russia




www.themoscowtimes.com





I have added this link in my repository thread.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523403242155044865

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523403967320920065

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523405860407414786

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## A.P. Richelieu

Basel said:


> You are a big hypocrite, west have attacked and killed millions of people in wars in Gulf, Iraq and Libya are example also west funded or used their allies to fund proxies to create civil wars in countries, example is Syria.


You are engaging in fantasies.
The Iraqi bodycount claims about 200,000 civilian deads with the West being reponsible for 5-10%. Most of it during the hot war in 2003.





__





Iraq Body Count







www.iraqbodycount.org





In Syria, about 350k have been killed.








New UN death toll: At least 350,000 people killed in Syria’s war


The UN human rights office says the death toll is ‘certainly an under-count’ due to a strict methodology used.




www.aljazeera.com




Most are killed by government forces and allies.






Where are your Millions?

The rebels in the Syrian Civil War were primarily funded by KSA and the Gulf States. They make their own decisions. Iran has supported the government.
Most of the refugees in Syria was created by Russian bombings.

The major engagement by the West was after a UNSC resolution to fight ISIS.

Show some credible source for your claims.
Otherwise, your claims can be rejected as lies.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You are engaging in fantasies.
> The Iraqi bodycount claims about 200,000 civilian deads with the West being reponsible for 5-10%. Most of it during the hot war in 2003.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iraq Body Count
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.iraqbodycount.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Syria, about 350k have been killed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New UN death toll: At least 350,000 people killed in Syria’s war
> 
> 
> The UN human rights office says the death toll is ‘certainly an under-count’ due to a strict methodology used.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most are killed by government forces and allies.
> 
> View attachment 842309
> 
> Where are your Millions?
> 
> The rebels in the Syrian Civil War were primarily funded by KSA and the Gulf States. They make their own decisions. Iran has supported the government.
> Most of the refugees in Syria was created by Russian bombings.
> 
> The major engagement by the West was after a UNSC resolution to fight ISIS.
> 
> Show some credible source for your claims.
> Otherwise, your claims can be rejected as lies.



Americans caused civil war in Syria because Syrians don't kowtow to Americans.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523383197723402240


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523380453045981184


----------



## The SC

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You are engaging in fantasies.
> The Iraqi bodycount claims about 200,000 civilian deads with the West being reponsible for 5-10%. Most of it during the hot war in 2003.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iraq Body Count
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.iraqbodycount.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Syria, about 350k have been killed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New UN death toll: At least 350,000 people killed in Syria’s war
> 
> 
> The UN human rights office says the death toll is ‘certainly an under-count’ due to a strict methodology used.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most are killed by government forces and allies.
> 
> View attachment 842309
> 
> Where are your Millions?
> 
> The rebels in the Syrian Civil War were primarily funded by KSA and the Gulf States. They make their own decisions. Iran has supported the government.
> Most of the refugees in Syria was created by Russian bombings.
> 
> The major engagement by the West was after a UNSC resolution to fight ISIS.
> 
> Show some credible source for your claims.
> Otherwise, your claims can be rejected as lies.


You forgot an important detail.. the blockade and the sanctions on Iraq by the US and NATO for 12 years prior to the 2003..where there was almost a million dead children..or you just ignored this fact?

Also KSA and GCC were just fronts for the US.. Check Hilary Clinton statements..

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523173553486528512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523410121354715136


----------



## Ich

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Americans caused civil war in Syria because Syrians don't kowtow to Americans.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523383197723402240



Yes, US bribed syrien forces with multimillions. They then fall of the goverment and later formed the FSA. I remember Idris. Haha, later he hobble to Turkey, with a wreckt leg and all money lost

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## LeGenD

Ich said:


> Ah, so why was Minsk I+II and why was there a paragraph which said that Donbas is part of Ukraine, but autonome? So how can you then say that russia tried to separate the Donbas when Russia signed Minsk I+II? And Ukraine broke Minsk I+II by bombing te people in Donbas.
> 
> 
> Krim has held a people referendum. They had the special rights to do it. It is like Bayern or Sachsen in Germany. If they want to leave they can leave after peoples referendum. All other states in Germany cant. And the same it was with Krim. And they use it. So no "Russia take Krim". Please inform yourself about the special rights of the Krim at that time.
> 
> 
> 
> The Donbas (Donetsk/Lugansk) had 8 years of bombing and killing through Kiew. Tens of thousands dead, killed by Kiew. They learned to fight the hard way. Strelkov? Motorolla? Givi? Ever heard these Names? Or the circumstances they were in?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, would the way through the battlefield been better for them? Through arty and bombs ect.? Or was it in the rules of the Genua conventions to bring the civilist on a safe way out of the warzone?
> 
> 
> 
> What do you know of what all happened in my life? Nothing! So only you are naiv in your view about me. I hope for you you never will be forced to change it.



FYI





__





Why Ukraine and Russia can’t agree on autonomy for the Donbas | Lowy Institute


Moscow and Kyiv fundamentally disagree on the provisions of the only peace plan they have.




www.lowyinstitute.org





Donbas is part of Ukraine and it is for the Ukranians to decide how it is governed. 

I acknowledge that Yanukovych government was in part responsible for fueling political dissent and separatist crisis in Donbas (and Crimea) *but* these movements could not succeed without active Russian patronage and support.

Check following reports:









Everything you need to know about the 2014 Ukraine crisis


Editor’s note, February 24, 2022, 10:15 am: In a February 23 speech, Russian President Vladimir Putin said that a "special military operation" would begin in Ukraine, following the 2014 annexation...




www.vox.com













Lessons from Russia's Operations in Ukraine


Russia's annexation of Crimea was a decisive use of military force toward political ends. But Russia benefited from favorable circumstances that make this hard to replicate. Moscow likely considers its campaign in Eastern Ukraine a strategic success but an unsuccessful operation.




www.rand.org













Putin's Undeclared War: Summer 2014 - Russian Artillery Strikes against Ukraine - bellingcat


Translations:English (UK)Русский (Россия)Download full report Скачать полную версию доклада Click here for a one-minute introductory map tour that gives the main findings and context of this report. The below text is an extract from the full report. The interactive data map underlying all of...




www.bellingcat.com





Russians were actively involved in supporting separatists in Donbas. Russians annexed Crimea in 2014 and made it impractical for Ukraine to reclaim entire Donbas. This is the controversy that you do not seem to understand.

Which side was backing the controversial Yanukovych government? Which side took full advantage of the resulting chaos?

*From Vox:*

_"This all began as an internal Ukrainian crisis in November 2013, when President Viktor Yanukovych rejected a deal for greater integration with the European Union (here's why this was such a big deal), sparking mass protests, which Yanukovych attempted to put down violently. Russia backed Yanukovych in the crisis, while the US and Europe supported the protesters. 

Since then, several big things have happened. In February, anti-government protests toppled the government and ran Yanukovych out of the country. Russia, trying to salvage its lost influence in Ukraine, invaded and annexed Crimea the next month. In April, pro-Russia separatist rebels began seizing territory in eastern Ukraine. The rebels shot down Malaysian Airlines flight 17 on July 17, killing 298 people, probably accidentally. Fighting between the rebels and the Ukrainian military intensified, the rebels started losing, and, in August, the Russian army overtly invaded eastern Ukraine to support the rebels. This has all brought the relationship between Russia and the West to its lowest point since the Cold War. Sanctions are pushing the Russian economy to the brink of recession, and more than 2,500 Ukrainians have been killed."_

Clear enough?

I am *not* discussing your life here.

Our discussion is about controversial role of Russia in supporting separatism in Donbas since 2014. See above.

I also pointed out current realities in my previous post:

_"Russia found it easier to take Crimea but Donbas have mixed population base where many are accepting of Zelenskyy administration. How do you think Mariupol resisted for so long? This is but one location. There are pockets of resistance in other locations as well. Just look at the number of Russian troops involved in this location.

There is a limit to how much commoners can resist by the way. Many are not trained to fight a war. Russia is also forcibly deporting as many commoners as it can to its mainland to give the impression that these are refugees. Some have managed to escape from Russia and exposed this development. Russians will tell you a different story of-course.

Even a Russian source is admitting the obvious:_









Fear and Uncertainty For Ukrainians Forced to Flee to Russia - The Moscow Times


After three weeks of sheltering in their basement, Marina, Sergei and their two children, aged 6 and 19, made the difficult decision to flee their home in northeastern Ukraine — but unlike millions of other Ukrainians, they headed east rather than west.




www.themoscowtimes.com





_Ukranian refugees in Russia are not happy. They want to leave."_

You do not seem to understand how so many Ukranians felt about Russian intervention in Donbas. They did not like it. 

I have shared so much information with you in my posts only for you to ignore much of it.

Take your time to check the links provided by me and try to comprehend my statements in relation. You do not have to respond to my posts on immediate basis. You need to digest information provided by me to have a better understanding of developments in Ukraine.


----------



## Ich

LeGenD said:


> FYI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Ukraine and Russia can’t agree on autonomy for the Donbas | Lowy Institute
> 
> 
> Moscow and Kyiv fundamentally disagree on the provisions of the only peace plan they have.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.lowyinstitute.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donbas is part of Ukraine and it is for the Ukranians to decide how it is governed.
> 
> I acknowledge that Yanukovych government was in part responsible for fueling political dissent and separatist crisis in Donbas (and Crimea) *but* these movements could not succeed without active Russian patronage and support.
> 
> Check following reports:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything you need to know about the 2014 Ukraine crisis
> 
> 
> Editor’s note, February 24, 2022, 10:15 am: In a February 23 speech, Russian President Vladimir Putin said that a "special military operation" would begin in Ukraine, following the 2014 annexation...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.vox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lessons from Russia's Operations in Ukraine
> 
> 
> Russia's annexation of Crimea was a decisive use of military force toward political ends. But Russia benefited from favorable circumstances that make this hard to replicate. Moscow likely considers its campaign in Eastern Ukraine a strategic success but an unsuccessful operation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rand.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin's Undeclared War: Summer 2014 - Russian Artillery Strikes against Ukraine - bellingcat
> 
> 
> Translations:English (UK)Русский (Россия)Download full report Скачать полную версию доклада Click here for a one-minute introductory map tour that gives the main findings and context of this report. The below text is an extract from the full report. The interactive data map underlying all of...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bellingcat.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russians were actively involved in supporting separatists in Donbas. Russians annexed Crimea in 2014 and made it impractical for Ukraine to reclaim entire Donbas. This is the controversy that you do not seem to understand.
> 
> Which side was backing the controversial Yanukovych government? Which side took full advantage of the resulting chaos?
> 
> *From Vox:*
> 
> _"This all began as an internal Ukrainian crisis in November 2013, when President Viktor Yanukovych rejected a deal for greater integration with the European Union (here's why this was such a big deal), sparking mass protests, which Yanukovych attempted to put down violently. Russia backed Yanukovych in the crisis, while the US and Europe supported the protesters.
> 
> Since then, several big things have happened. In February, anti-government protests toppled the government and ran Yanukovych out of the country. Russia, trying to salvage its lost influence in Ukraine, invaded and annexed Crimea the next month. In April, pro-Russia separatist rebels began seizing territory in eastern Ukraine. The rebels shot down Malaysian Airlines flight 17 on July 17, killing 298 people, probably accidentally. Fighting between the rebels and the Ukrainian military intensified, the rebels started losing, and, in August, the Russian army overtly invaded eastern Ukraine to support the rebels. This has all brought the relationship between Russia and the West to its lowest point since the Cold War. Sanctions are pushing the Russian economy to the brink of recession, and more than 2,500 Ukrainians have been killed."_
> 
> Clear enough?
> 
> I am *not* discussing your life here.
> 
> Our discussion is about controversial role of Russia in supporting separatism in Donbas since 2014. See above.
> 
> I also pointed out current realities in my previous post:
> 
> _"Russia found it easier to take Crimea but Donbas have mixed population base where many are accepting of Zelenskyy administration. How do you think Mariupol resisted for so long? This is but one location. There are pockets of resistance in other locations as well. Just look at the number of Russian troops involved in this location.
> 
> There is a limit to how much commoners can resist by the way. Many are not trained to fight a war. Russia is also forcibly deporting as many commoners as it can to its mainland to give the impression that these are refugees. Some have managed to escape from Russia and exposed this development. Russians will tell you a different story of-course.
> 
> Even a Russian source is admitting the obvious:_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fear and Uncertainty For Ukrainians Forced to Flee to Russia - The Moscow Times
> 
> 
> After three weeks of sheltering in their basement, Marina, Sergei and their two children, aged 6 and 19, made the difficult decision to flee their home in northeastern Ukraine — but unlike millions of other Ukrainians, they headed east rather than west.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.themoscowtimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Ukranian refugees in Russia are not happy. They want to leave."_
> 
> You do not seem to understand how so many Ukranians felt about Russian intervention in Donbas. They did not like it.
> 
> I have shared so much information with you in my posts only for you to ignore much of it.
> 
> Take your time to check the links provided by me and try to comprehend my statements in relation. You do not have to respond to my posts on immediate basis. You need to digest information provided by me to have a better understanding of developments in Ukraine.



This is so redicules. Bellingcat. And the others. Sorry for you but i put you on the ignore list. Maybe you are a nice guy but enough is enough.

Edit:

LOL i cant set you on ignore.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523388716290818050

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## LeGenD

Ich said:


> This is so redicules. Bellingcat. And the others. Sorry for you but i put you on the ignore list. Maybe you are a nice guy but enough is enough.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> LOL i cant set you on ignore.


This is trolling, dear.

Ignoring me is not an issue but I am very disappointed with this post - how you chose to conclude our debate. This attitude is unproductive for debates. You have a problem with numerous sources. There is no fix for this.

You need a break from this thread.


----------



## The SC

Biden summoned the Director of National Intelligence, the Director of Central Intelligence (CIA), and the Secretary of Defense: “To make clear in the strongest terms that this kind of leakage about US military aid to Ukraine is a reckless act that must stop immediately.

The leak of information about the role of US military intelligence in helping the Ukrainians target Russian army generals on the battlefronts, despite the official denial of it, and the new leak about the role it also played in sinking the Russian cruiser "Moskva", angered President Biden. According to a report in The New York Times, Biden summoned the Director of National Intelligence, the Director of Central Intelligence (CIA), and the Secretary of Defense: “To make it clear in the strongest terms that this kind of loose leaks is a reckless act that must stop immediately, before it ends up with us.” end up in an unintended war with Russia.” The report added that senior US officials made it clear that these leaks were not part of any deliberate strategy, and Biden was angry about them; because it might indicate that “we are no longer in an indirect war with Russia; We are heading toward direct war, and no one has prepared the American people or Congress for that.”

According to US officials, this is doubly dangerous; Because it is increasingly clear to them that Putin's behavior is as unpredictable as in the past, which could lead him to respond in ways that could dangerously expand this conflict.


https://aawsat.com/home/article/3633441/بايدن-غاضب-من-تسريبات-قد-«تورط»-بلاده-في-حرب-مع-روسيا


----------



## Primus

LeGenD said:


> This is trolling, dear.
> 
> You need a break from this thread.


_A lot of people do_

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## The SC

The Speaker of the State Duma, Vyacheslav Volodin, called for holding the US leadership responsible for "the crimes committed by the Kyiv regime in Ukraine and adding them to the list of war criminals." "The United States has admitted that it is coordinating the military operations of Ukraine, and therefore is participating in hostilities against Russia," Volodin added.

https://aawsat.com/home/article/3633656/تصعيد-ميداني-في-أوكرانيا-عشية-«يوم-النصر»



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523294734466568193

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523423484864475136

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Hydration

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523388716290818050


lol


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523381181013630976
The spearhead called by some the TikTok guys have liberated Popasna now after Mriupol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523414761223778305

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523407898285514752


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523408832546099201


----------



## Wood

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ul7i7o


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523357301670703105

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523059755044184064


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523332866511630337

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523425503973036032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523412811032182785

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523407563840458754

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523231279050862592

Reactions: Like Like:
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## WotTen

Ich said:


> Technological the US is on the decline.



Genetic sequencing, social media related I.T., aerospace, public safety, space tech, etc, etc. It is disingenuous to deny that the US is among the leaders in these and other technologies.



Ich said:


> And what art? Pedophil Disney channel? Woke bullshit? Sick Hollywood films? Lol!



Blues, rock, pop, jazz, hip hop, house, techno, almost any kind of non-local music genre came from the US. Incidentally, many, though not all, of the US music inventions came from Africa-American culture.



Ich said:


> And what sience? Most "siencific succsess" in US is made by foreign scientists working there.



Well, I am one of those crazy nuts who thinks Relativity and Quantum Mechanics are fundamentally flawed, but that's another story.  Also, both SRT/GR and QM are European inventions, so that's another side debate.

On a serious note, the US has the most number of scientific paper citations. That is an objective measure of scientific output.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523310344789184514

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523379662512025601


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523340273022955521


Vergennes said:


> Even Wagner admitted it was a Russian helicopter LMAO,desperation must be running high.




Where did they claim that it was Russian heli?

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## PakAlp

What is the reason for the slow progress of the Russians? Is it because of heavy Ukrainian resistance or have the Russians changed their tactics to clear all area before moving forward so they do not get ambushed.
@The SC @Hassan Al-Somal @gambit





Looks likely Russians will take over the blue circle area very soon.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523232322786451456


PakAlp said:


> What is the reason for the slow progress of the Russians? Is it because of heavy Ukrainian resistance or have the Russians changed their tactics to clear all area before moving forward so they do not get ambushed.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523232751234600960
There are those who believe that Russia pulled out everything it had in this war, and this is not true. 90% of the Russian army and weapons are in the Russian barracks.

The doctrine of the Russian army is the intensity of fire, and It is believed that reducing the quality for the sake of quantity is for this purpose.. They did not use this advantage because they wanted to prevent civilian casualties.

If this tactic was used, Ukraine would now be nothing.. Of course, no one prefer this, or wish it for Ukraine or any other country..

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523253987314610178

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523439367938711552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523436739989151744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523421213434941441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523440730940665856

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## Vergennes

The SC said:


> There are those who believe that Russia pulled out everything it had in this war, and this is not true. 90% of the Russian army and weapons are in the Russian barracks.
> 
> The doctrine of the Russian army is the intensity of fire, and It is believed that reducing the quality for the sake of quantity is for this purpose.. They did not use this advantage because they wanted to prevent civilian casualties.
> 
> If this tactic was used, Ukraine would now be nothing.. Of course, no one prefer this, or wish it for Ukraine or any other country..



What a load of bullshit.

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## The SC

Vergennes said:


> What a load of bullshit.


Counter it with facts not your shitty stupid answers..

Real strength is measured by the weapons of strategic deterrence, not by the number of machinery and systems..

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523437895746347008


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523358209964011520

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## PakAlp

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523232322786451456
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523232751234600960
> There are those who believe that Russia pulled out everything it had in this war, and this is not true. 90% of the Russian army and weapons are in the Russian barracks.
> 
> The doctrine of the Russian army is the intensity of fire, and It is believed that reducing the quality for the sake of quantity is for this purpose.. They did not use this advantage because they wanted to prevent civilian casualties.
> 
> If this tactic was used, Ukraine would now be nothing.. Of course, no one prefer this, or wish it for Ukraine or any other country..


People are saying this because what army would go in to war without full force? On top of this they have lost 3500 equipments of all kinds and 1000s of troops lives (20k to one estimate)


----------



## F-22Raptor

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523232322786451456
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523232751234600960
> There are those who believe that Russia pulled out everything it had in this war, and this is not true. 90% of the Russian army and weapons are in the Russian barracks.
> 
> The doctrine of the Russian army is the intensity of fire, and It is believed that reducing the quality for the sake of quantity is for this purpose.. They did not use this advantage because they wanted to prevent civilian casualties.
> 
> If this tactic was used, Ukraine would now be nothing.. Of course, no one prefer this, or wish it for Ukraine or any other country..




Your are utterly deluded. Absolutely no one believes this. The Pentagon certainly doesn’t.


----------



## PakAlp

Vergennes said:


> What a load of bullshit.


Lol. It is shocking how Russian is fighting this war, they should be able to destroy all artillery, tanks, anti air missiles, after all they have a great air force.


----------



## Vergennes

The SC said:


> Counter it with facts not your shitty stupid answers..



Saying "90 of the russian army and weapons are in Russian barracks" is indeed BS. Russia is involving more than 10% of their military to the "war effort" and without much success given the utter failure their armed forces are on so many levels,be it communications,leadership,planning,logistic,combined arms operations....

Saying Russians want to prevent civilian casualties is BS because they are using the same tactics as they did in Chechnya,Syria meaning the total destruction of towns and the civilians in them when the latter don't want to subject to the Russians. Russians are bombing entire towns to the stone age with unguided bombs and yet you are telling me "they care about civilians".

They don't even care about their own soldiers and you want them to care for Ukrainian civilians,LMAO.

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## F-22Raptor

The SC said:


> Counter it with facts not your shitty stupid answers..




You never go into war fighting half assed. You want to defeat the enemy ASAP, and send in your best to do it. 

Russia has lost over 20K lives and likely over 50K wounded, POW, and deserted. As well as 3,500 heavy armor minimum. 

This isn’t a video game.

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> You never go into war fighting half assed. You want to defeat the enemy ASAP, and send in your best to do it.
> 
> Russia has lost over 20K lives and likely over 50K wounded, POW, and deserted. As well as 3,500 heavy armor minimum.
> 
> This isn’t a video game.



Some here truly believe Russians are sending second tier armed forces to Ukraine and "keep the best" for NATO yet failing to realize the entire Russian armed forces are just trash,there's no "1st and 2nd tier forces",what we are seeing in Ukraine is the real and only Russian army. You don't go to war without putting every chances on your side,thus sending your best forces to achieve rapid and decisive victory.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> Some here truly believe Russians are sending second tier armed forces to Ukraine and "keep the best" for NATO yet failing to realize the entire Russian armed forces are just trash,there's no "1st and 2nd tier forces",what we are seeing in Ukraine is the real and only Russian army. You don't go to war without putting every chances on your side,thus sending your best forces to achieve rapid and decisive victory.




US armed forces during the first Gulf War would wreck this Russian Army. 

The Russians are more like orcs than a true military. True cannon fodder.

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## The SC

F-22Raptor said:


> You never go into war fighting half assed. You want to defeat the enemy ASAP, and send in your best to do it.
> 
> Russia has lost over 20K lives and likely over 50K wounded, POW, and deserted. As well as 3,500 heavy armor minimum.
> 
> This isn’t a video game.


This isn't a total war or even a war mind you.. and it is not me saying it.. Russia said it a special operation.. if there is total war it will be with NATO not weakened Ukraine..



F-22Raptor said:


> Your are utterly deluded. Absolutely no one believes this. The Pentagon certainly doesn’t.


The Pentagon is weary of these facts.. they know better than your deluded thoughts..



F-22Raptor said:


> US armed forces during the first Gulf War would wreck this Russian Army.
> 
> The Russians are more like orcs than a true military. True cannon fodder.


Is this why both NATO and the US on its own say explicitly that they don't want to confront Russia directly..!?



Vergennes said:


> Saying "90 of the russian army and weapons are in Russian barracks" is indeed BS. Russia is involving more than 10% of their military to the "war effort" and without much success given the utter failure their armed forces are on so many levels,be it communications,leadership,planning,logistic,combined arms operations....
> 
> Saying Russians want to prevent civilian casualties is BS because they are using the same tactics as they did in Chechnya,Syria meaning the total destruction of towns and the civilians in them when the latter don't want to subject to the Russians. Russians are bombing entire towns to the stone age with unguided bombs and yet you are telling me "they care about civilians".
> 
> They don't even care about their own soldiers and you want them to care for Ukrainian civilians,LMAO.


You say yourself 10%.. and then you deny it.. it is weird! lol


----------



## Kağan Zafer

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523232322786451456
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523232751234600960
> There are those who believe that Russia pulled out everything it had in this war, and this is not true. 90% of the Russian army and weapons are in the Russian barracks.
> 
> The doctrine of the Russian army is the intensity of fire, and It is believed that reducing the quality for the sake of quantity is for this purpose.. They did not use this advantage because they wanted to prevent civilian casualties.
> 
> If this tactic was used, Ukraine would now be nothing.. Of course, no one prefer this, or wish it for Ukraine or any other country..


Who doesn't sacrifice countless tanks, dozens of aeroplanes, hundreds of vehicles, billions worth of military equipments and on top of that the lives of thousands of soldiers before he wins a war decisively, right?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523456988918652928


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Kashmiri Rebel said:


> You are an idiot still believing what pentagon says. They were saying Afghan army will not fall.
> One day you will wake up hearing that Ukraine has also fell.


A population will not be defeated until it accepts defeat.
And no, Pentagon did not believe that the Afghan Army was in shape.








Can The Afghan Army Hold Off The Taliban Without The U.S.?


The Afghan military remains heavily dependent on U.S. equipment, training and money. It's far from clear how effective this U.S. assistance will be once American troops are gone.




www.npr.org


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523468561833816064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523455772143026176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523411787198386177


----------



## F-22Raptor

The SC said:


> This isn't a total war or even a war mind you.. and it is not me saying it.. Russia said it a special operation.. if there is total war it will be with NATO not weakened Ukraine..
> 
> 
> The Pentagon is weary of these facts.. they know better than your deluded thoughts..
> 
> 
> Is this why both NATO and the US on its own say explicitly that they don't want to confront Russia directly..!?
> 
> 
> You say yourself 10%.. and then you deny it.. it is weird! lol




You are completely deluded if you think this isn’t a war. You sound like a child.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523396226359513089

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523380228902440960


F-22Raptor said:


> You are completely deluded if you think this isn’t a war. You sound like a child.


I know you're such a brat to be saying this.. you sound like a looser girl..


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523486899150606336


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523349471278821376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523344494275567616


----------



## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> You don't go to war without putting every chances on your side,thus sending your best forces to achieve rapid and decisive victory.



They cannot send much more of their best, true, but they still can send their worst ad infinium.

I have little doubt that conscripts with AKs on WW2 trucks, and towed guns can still be produced in great amounts by Russia.

It's a minimum 2 field armies worth of bodies for Ukraine to butcher through to force Russians to choose in between messy retreat, or collapse, and messy retreat.

The dire reality now is that Russia has 6-7 field armies worth of bodies, and armour there. The world has not seen anything like that since the Vietnam war.

Even if Ukraine magically got infinite MLRS ammo, and bombs to rain on them, it would still take months.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523338960960987141

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523069332603179008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523043944543703042


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Viet said:


> If Moscow don’t send foods and shoes the separatists will run barefoot hungry.


*This is a warning. 

Go home and STOP trolling. *


----------



## The SC

OMG


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523467073841958913


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

A.P. Richelieu said:


> View attachment 842216
> 
> Caught lying again…
> This means that NATO provided a feather, and Putin is calling it a hen.
> 
> View attachment 842218


YOU are using fabricated and uncorroborated lies from disinformation campaign by lying Western social media and MSM to support your flimsy argument. 

If you hope for Ukraine to win a war this war is very a TALL ORDER.

Today is V-day in Moscow, I am looking forward yo the FIREWORK promised to us by your idol Zalensky aka the liar.

Latest: Russia laid a trap in the Snake Island and Ukraine fells for it suffering heavy casualties. The US supplied M777 howitzers used have no visible effects.


----------



## Apollon

Basel said:


> Kindly stop your hypocrisy, west has shown that they can't be trusted, Russia has faced it first hand, if US and UK had not given assurances to Russia, you have not seen reunion of Germany and freedom of 12 states from USSR, kindly get your facts right, also west is not saint either, since centuries west have also colonized, killed slaved and looted other countries and their people, even in last 2 decades west has killed millions of people in ME in wars started on lies, so why no war crime proceedings on those, specially war on Iraq and Libya??



What has Iraq to do with Ukraine? Dude stop whataboutism. Russia is a facist terror regime that comitts horrible crimes in Ukraine. 

As for rest of your bullshit, glad you admitt that Russia terrorized eastern europe and only gave "freedom" to them when it became too weak. Guess what? Those 12 eastern european nations dont have intention to get attacked by russia again. Because of that they join NATO and other will follow.


----------



## alimobin memon

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Already replaced with newly produced hardware.


Some people dont seem to realize the fact that russia is also a good military industry. They know the war they have started will involve nato weaponry and hence, losses are imminent. So far its west who is fighting the war ukraine is providing human resource.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CAPRICORN-88

Russian Air Force heavy bombers have dropped bunker busting bombs on to thr Azovstal Steelworks in Mariopul. 

DNR militia has surrounded the Steel Works. 

The remain AZOV neo-NAZI battalion still holding up was still dreaming of being repatriated to third countries. 

Civilians released claimed that they were held hostage by the Ukrainian AZOV neo-NAZI troops in the steelworks.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523428530960629761


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523384719643009026


CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Russian Air Force heavy bombers have dropped bunker busting bombs on to thr Azovstal Steelworks in Mariopul.
> 
> DNR militia has surrounded the Steel Works.
> 
> The remain AZOV neo-NAZI battalion still holding up was still dreaming of being repatriated to third countries.
> 
> Civilians released claimed that they were held hostage by the Ukrainian AZOV neo-NAZI troops in the steelworks.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523432708571283456


----------



## patero

F-22Raptor said:


> You are completely deluded if you think this isn’t a war. You sound like a child.


The SC said:

You are ignoring content by this member. Show ignored content

I'm curious to see why this post is getting such heat, and I know I'm going to regret this but,.......click on the linky and,........oh for F*&^s sake, how can anybody think that? The Russians have been foxing this whole time? They're holding back and what, lulling the Ukrainians into a false sense of security?

Right, refresh page and ignore content again. I'm saving myself so much time sifting through some of the rubbish on this thread with liberal use of the ignore function.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## A.P. Richelieu

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> YOU are using fabricated and uncorroborated lies from disinformation campaign by lying Western social media and MSM to support your flimsy argument.
> 
> If you hope for Ukraine to win a war this war is very a TALL ORDER.
> 
> Today is V-day in Moscow, I am looking forward yo the FIREWORK promised to us by your idol Zalensky aka the liar.
> 
> Latest: Russia laid a trap in the Snake Island and Ukraine fells for it suffering heavy casualties. The US supplied M777 howitzers used have no visible effects.


The interview with the Pope was made in Western MSM.
YOU twisted the words in the interview.
A Youtube video is a better source?


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

The commander of the remaining AZOV neo-NAZI forces trapped inside the Azovstal steelworks allegedly told the soldiers that the world, US and NATO will rescue them. 

Russia ultimatum is uncompromising.

Surrender or all of them will PERISH.


----------



## dBSPL

wallpaper

Reactions: Love Love:
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## F-22Raptor

patero said:


> The SC said:
> 
> You are ignoring content by this member. Show ignored content
> 
> I'm curious to see why this post is getting such heat, and I know I'm going to regret this but,.......click on the linky and,........oh for F*&^s sake, how can anybody think that? The Russians have been foxing this whole time? They're holding back and what, lulling the Ukrainians into a false sense of security?
> 
> Right, refresh page and ignore content again. I'm saving myself so much time sifting through some of the rubbish on this thread with liberal use of the ignore function.




It’s hilarious seeing how far the Russian trolls have moved the goalposts since the end of February.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Clutch

LeGenD said:


> I noticed that Russian perspective is relatively balanced in following link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Moscow Times
> 
> 
> Independent news from Russia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.themoscowtimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have added this link in my repository thread.




Moscow Times based out of London Thames.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## CAPRICORN-88

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The interview with the Pope was made in Western MSM.
> YOU twisted the words in the interview.


I twisted his word. 

*Wow*. That is so personal. 

That is not even my vblog. 

Unlike you. 

Pure speculation.

So Ukraine is winning. What is in the stake for you?


----------



## Clutch

Viet said:


> The incoming oil embargo by the EU will wreck havoc on Russia finances, oil industry. If Putin can’t quickly find alternative customers, and due to fact that Russia lacks strategic oil storages, the oil wells will collapse.
> 
> Once the wells collapse it will be extremely difficult and costly to reopen.




Care to explain how the oil wells will "collapse"??? Lol


----------



## Wood

patero said:


> The SC said:
> 
> You are ignoring content by this member. Show ignored content
> 
> I'm curious to see why this post is getting such heat, and I know I'm going to regret this but,.......click on the linky and,........oh for F*&^s sake, how can anybody think that? The Russians have been foxing this whole time? They're holding back and what, lulling the Ukrainians into a false sense of security?
> 
> Right, refresh page and ignore content again. I'm saving myself so much time sifting through some of the rubbish on this thread with liberal use of the ignore function.


Me too. Half the people in the thread are in my ignore list. No issues with anyone. But they just make the page load very slow

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523317852782010369

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CAPRICORN-88

Clutch said:


> Moscow Times based out of London Thames.


Just like China Uncensored based in USA and funded by NED.


----------



## Wood

__





Trudeau says Putin responsible for ‘heinous war crimes’ during surprise visit to Ukraine - National | Globalnews.ca


“It is clear that Vladimir Putin is responsible for heinous war crimes,” said Prime Minister Justin Trudeau during a visit to Kyiv, Ukraine.




globalnews.ca





Canadian PM visits Kyiv! 🇨🇦🇺🇦

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## A.P. Richelieu

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> I twisted his word.
> 
> *Wow*. That is so personal.
> 
> That is not even my vblog.
> 
> Unlike you.
> 
> Pure speculation.
> 
> So Ukraine is winning. What is in the stake for you?


Publishing a Youtube video with lies is equivalent with you lying.
Show the original interview (or a translation since it is in Italian).


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523278104759742464


----------



## Clutch

LeGenD said:


> International order should have rules, or WE are back to the Age of Empires and nothing changed.
> 
> What if other big countries start doing the same?



Naive way to think of how the new world order is actually constructed.


----------



## DF41

LeGenD said:


> Russian troops are fighting. Others are a joke. Chechens are mostly Photo-ops.




You there to see that?
Or stuff your NED controller feeding you with?

Together with you well documented stuff on Yugoslavia?

Reactions: Angry Angry:
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## LeGenD

thetutle said:


> Yes, he was put in a difficult situation. he had to choose if russia will go quietly into the night or self destruct with all guns blazing. He chose to go all guns blazing. I think he figured russia was on a long term spiral downwards, adding Ukraine and 44 milion new slaves to his empire would revitalise it.
> 
> He was upset that CIA took Ukraine over in 2014 and it was never coming back. He rightly figured that USA will never stop and keep taking chunks of the russian sphere of influence. one by one. And he was right. the only thing he miscalculated was that he could stop this process with war. He can't.
> 
> All he did is expose russian weakness and accelerated the process of Russia's destruction and the elimination of its sphere of influence.
> 
> I thought he would invade in 2015. I cant believe he waited this long.



You will find relevant information in following post:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments






defence.pk





Russia was doing fine *until* it decided to escalate matters in Ukraine in 2022.

*1. *US/NATO came to terms with developments in Chechnya. Russian moves in this region were justified to be fair. No country accepts separatism by default.

*2. *US/NATO came to terms with Russian annexation of South Ossetia and Abkhazia from Georgia in 2008.

*3. *US/NATO came to terms with Russian annexation of Crimea from Ukraine in 2014. They imposed limited sanctions on Russia in response at maximum.

*4. *US/NATO handed over Syria to Russia on a silver plate in 2015. Israel was alarmed by this decision and decided to cozy up to Russia in response.

*5. *Germany was giving Nord Stream 2 to Russia. This was good news for Russian economy.

Americans were in "Kampein Tang" mode.

But Putin administration wants more - always. They got the impression that WE are having our way whereever WE go, so WE can try to swallow Ukraine itself. US/NATO have no balls.

Well... _"cannot have your cake and eat it too"_ rings true time-and-again.

US/NATO decided to teach Russia some rules this time.



Clutch said:


> Moscow Times based out of London Thames.



The Moscow Times is Russian English Language Media founded in 1992 with its main office in Moscow of-course but this source was not willing to compromise on its journalistic standards for Putin administration and its office was closed in Moscow in 2022.









The Moscow Times - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523276558051336200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523512980737908737


----------



## Clutch

Meengla said:


> But they sure have fought like lions and will be remembered by history



Lol... History mostly forgets everyone.


----------



## DF41

The SC said:


> Arrival in Ukraine of the American M777 howitzer and the Australian Bushmaster armored vehicles
> 
> View attachment 842261
> 
> 
> View attachment 842262



That plane landed in Ukraine?

Which airport in Ukraine please tell us!  

And then hoping to sneak that along small roads and pray pray pray Z or V drones find out and a salvo of missiles going their way 



https://www.bilibili.tv/en/video/2004322636?s_locale=en_GB&from=Copyright sang by one who cannot sing Russian


----------



## The SC

DF41 said:


> That plane landed in Ukraine?
> 
> Which airport in Ukraine please tell us!
> 
> And then hoping to sneak that along small roads and pray pray pray Z or V drones find out and a salvo of missiles going their way
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.bilibili.tv/en/video/2004322636?s_locale=en_GB&from=Copyright sang by one who cannot sing Russian


The cargo planes are Ukrainian but they land mostly in Poland..


----------



## DF41

The SC said:


> The cargo planes are Ukrainian but they land mostly in Poland..


Ahhh!


Then why did you say USA toys and weapons of death arrived in Ukraine?  

You not heard?

_*There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip*_ is an English proverb. It implies that even when a good outcome or conclusion seems certain, things can still go wrong, similar in meaning to "don't count your chickens before they hatch".


Or you an USAian ? Then it is ok for you to say that as we all know USA tell lies after lies after lies.
And faithfully repeated by their western media and stooges all over such as in this forum

You one of those so directed by NED to write for pieces of silver? or gold? or Bitcoin?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523129651241295875

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523440764117995520


DF41 said:


> Ahhh!
> 
> 
> Then why did you say USA toys and weapons of death arrived in Ukraine?
> 
> You not heard?
> 
> _*There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip*_ is an English proverb. It implies that even when a good outcome or conclusion seems certain, things can still go wrong, similar in meaning to "don't count your chickens before they hatch".
> 
> 
> Or you an USAian ? Then it is ok for you to say that as we all know USA tell lies after lies after lies.
> And faithfully repeated by their western media and stooges all over such as in this forum
> 
> You one of those so directed by NED to write for pieces of silver? or gold? or Bitcoin?


Maybe they show the arrival and then they ship them to Ukraine..
They will have difficulty hiding them when in Ukraine..

No I'm not anything of what you said..


----------



## LeGenD

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Just like China Uncensored based in USA and funded by NED.



The Moscow Times was founded in Russia in 1992.









The Moscow Times - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





They refused to accept terms and conditions for journalism by Kremlin Watchdog in 2022. This is why they are operating in Europe.





__





The Moscow Times







thebarentsobserver.com





They are resisting Russian media censorship. Always have.

They are *not* linked to NED:









Media and Freedom of Expression - NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR DEMOCRACY


The organizations currently presented in this section were chosen for their mission of fostering positive, democratic change around the world.




www.ned.org





Let us understand facts the way they are.


----------



## Bengal71

Trango Towers said:


> During the chechen war Ukrainians commided heinous crimes in chechenya. Payback is a b1tch



Inshallah one day we muslims will get the chance to payback the americans and their minions with interest.


----------



## LeGenD

DF41 said:


> You there to see that?
> Or stuff your NED controller feeding you with?
> 
> Together with you well documented stuff on Yugoslavia?



My take on Yugoslavia is in following post:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


He wants nuclear war and is fine with himself being dead, hence please skip the first part and proceed to the second. I find it funny the hate towards Americans by some here. Every civilization has done good and bad, not one is perfect. Just remember America could simply stop providing food aid...



defence.pk





Fair and balanced.

Offtopic as well but I felt the need to address another curious member. Not that he understood much.

It is my independent observation that Russian troops are involved in most of the fighting across Ukraine. There is so much content circulating on the web showing the obvious. Russian troops have suffered most of the losses in Ukraine due to obvious reasons. Check my repository thread for a change.

Russia-backed separatists are fighting in some sectors of Donbas? Fair enough. You are welcome to show these developments in your posts. But these developments do not take away from other realities of the war.

Regarding Chechens:









What role is Chechnya’s Ramzan Kadyrov playing in Ukraine war?


Chechen forces deployed in Ukraine appear to be more of a ‘PR initiative’ than military utility, analysts say.




www.aljazeera.com





My NED controller? Do you think PDF administration is clueless or something? Do not get personal with members here, or provoke any member. Keep it professional and respect Forum Rules. This is my second reminder.


----------



## K_Bin_W

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523411787198386177


Nothing out of the ordinary, Amreeka also trained Afghan National Army...


----------



## BHAN85

Russia Victory Day Parade


Live Stream https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/RTlivestream:8



defence.pk


----------



## BHAN85

EU should seize Russian reserves to rebuild Ukraine, Borrell tells Financial Times


The European Union should consider seizing frozen Russian foreign exchange reserves to help pay for the cost of rebuilding Ukraine after the war, the bloc's foreign policy chief, Josep Borrell, said in an interview with the Financial Times.




www.reuters.com





This criminal thief is insane, out of control, drunk of own propaganda and lies.

I think it's not a good idea steal money from a state with several thousand nuclear weapons.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## CAPRICORN-88

_*The Moscow Times*_ (_*TMT*_) is an independent *Amsterdam based *English-language and Russian-language online newspaper.

Owner: Tiamti PLC *supported by Dutch foundation Stichting

So it is indeed NOT a Moscow based newspaper. 

So misleading and it was done intentionally as many will imagine it is an official Russian news. *

*Moscow Times is not a Russia based publication and China Uncensored is not a China based publication. *

Perhaps it is about time China should started their own Texas Times or Hawaii Times or Russia their own Downing Street Times based in Mosow. 

Just my two cent. 

@ LeGenD


----------



## Apollon

Bengal71 said:


> Inshallah one day we muslims will get the chance to payback the americans and their minions with interest.



Come and try


----------



## gambit

PakAlp said:


> Lol. It is shocking how Russian is fighting this war, they should be able to destroy all artillery, tanks, anti air missiles, after all *they have a great air force.*


Actually, we *PERCEIVED* that the Russian Air Force (VKS) was great. Now that perception has been shattered.


----------



## Vergennes

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> _*The Moscow Times*_ (_*TMT*_) is an independent *Amsterdam based *English-language and Russian-language online newspaper.
> 
> Owner: Tiamti PLC *supported by Dutch foundation Stichting
> 
> So it is indeed NOT a Moscow based newspaper.
> 
> So misleading and it was done intentionally as many will imagine it is an official Russian news. *
> 
> *Moscow Times is not a Russia based publication and China Uncensored is not a China based publication. *
> 
> Perhaps it is about time China should started their own Texas Times or Hawaii Times or Russia their own Downing Street Times based in Mosow.
> 
> Just my two cent.
> 
> @ LeGenD



I wonder why independent newspapers have to be based abroad given how Russia and China are heavens of the free press and where journalists don't die in mysterious circonstances or fall of balconies...

Reactions: Like Like:
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## CAPRICORN-88

Vergennes said:


> I wonder why independent newspapers have to be based abroad given how Russia and China are heavens of the free press and where journalists don't die in mysterious circonstances or fall of balconies...


Not unless you can proved your wildest imagination and allegation. 

Why only target China and Russia alone? 

Are they your named and also imagary enemies?


----------



## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523358209964011520


Oh nooooo


James, how will you ever fight those pesky russkies in immaculately clean gear, whilst taking $50k off people donating to you


----------



## Trango Towers

Bengal71 said:


> Inshallah one day we muslims will get the chance to payback the americans and their minions with interest.


InshAllah. 
America Britain and Israel have a lot to answer for


----------



## Hack-Hook

NATO didn't do shit 


Huffal said:


> Ayo why are people suddenly feeling sorry for Serbia during the NATO attack? Have they forgotten what those evil pos did to the Bosnians? Literal genocide?


When the bosnians were systematically killed

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Primus

Hack-Hook said:


> NATO didn't do shit
> 
> When the bosnians were systematically killed


No no. The UN didnt do shit when the Bosnians were genocided. The only UN country to do something meaningful was Pakistan, and that was by sending Bakta Shikan ATGM and other weaponry to Bosnia to defend themselves. 

NATO intervened in 1999 during the Yugoslav-Kosovo war seeing what those Serbians did to the Bosniaks before hand. (something people forget). The NATO bombings that ensued was a result of that. 

So many lives lost, even though it could have been so easily prevented. 

Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi rajioon


----------



## dbc

Victory day in Moscow today had a funeral vibe. Putin’s framing has now narrowed to Donbas


----------



## SalarHaqq

Apollon said:


> If NATO is so impotent...why is Russia losing 10 generals and its flagship?



Why has NATO lost the war?

_____



Huffal said:


> The only UN country to do something meaningful was Pakistan



As well as Iran. Supplying numerous 747 transport aircraft worth of weaponry and ammunition, sending over IRGC volunteers and especially trainers (of which several where martyred in combat and are now buried in Bosnia), setting up an entire battalion of the Bosnian army, familiarizing Bosnians with Islamic martyrdom culture, supporting them in military intelligence, providing humanitarian aid through the Iranian Red Crescent, extending political and diplomatic support etc.

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## Primus

SalarHaqq said:


> As well as Iran. Supplying numerous 747 transport aircraft worth of weaponry and ammunition, sending over IRGC volunteers and especially trainers (of which several where martyred in combat), setting up an entire brigade of the Bosnian army, familiarizing Bosnians with Islamic martyrdom culture, supporting them in military intelligence, providing humanitarian aid through the Iranian Red Crescent, extending political and diplomatic support etc.


I did not know that. Thank you.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hack-Hook said:


> NATO didn't do shit
> 
> When the bosnians were systematically killed


Except arms blockades, no-fly zones, shooting down Serbian aircrafts and air strikes until a peace agreement was signed.



Huffal said:


> No no. The UN didnt do shit when the Bosnians were genocided. The only UN country to do something meaningful was Pakistan, and that was by sending Bakta Shikan ATGM and other weaponry to Bosnia to defend themselves.
> 
> NATO intervened in 1999 during the Yugoslav-Kosovo war seeing what those Serbians did to the Bosniaks before hand. (something people forget). The NATO bombings that ensued was a result of that.
> 
> So many lives lost, even though it could have been so easily prevented.
> 
> Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi rajioon


The UNSC had multiple resolutions on the Bosnian war, and there was significant activity from NATO.








Bosnian War - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## SalarHaqq

Huffal said:


> I did not know that. Thank you.



You're welcome. 

If interested, you can find further information here: 
https://iranicaonline.org/articles/bosnia-and-herzegovina 

As well as in my posts on this page: 
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bosnia-genocide-part-2-urgent-warning.735153/page-2#post-13554210 

Note that this is one among several examples of an Iranian intervention in support for Sunni Muslims, which invalidates the notion that the Islamic Republic is pursuing a sectarianist type of policy.

Qasem Soleimani and IRGC Quds Force personnel in Bosnia during the conflict:

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## jamahir

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523358209964011520



How sweet. A family reunion just like in the American films. Just that this is the same fellow who is involved in a Ukainian Nazi battalion which is involved in rapes and looting. Just like the reality of the American military. When asked how he was seen in the group of Nazi rapists and looters he said he had been photoshopped into the picture.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Putin's 40th colonel to die in Ukraine is confirmed today​








Putin's 40th colonel to die in Ukraine confirmed on Victory Day


Putin lost his 40th colonel in Ukraine in the latest milestone of Russia's faltering invasion. Lt Col Alexander Blinov, 42, was killed on March 15 but his death was denied. His grave has been pictured




www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## BHAN85

https://tass.com/politics/1448669





http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/68366





> *President of Russia Vladimir Putin:* Fellow Russian citizens,
> 
> Dear veterans,
> 
> Comrade soldiers and seamen, sergeants and sergeant majors, midshipmen and warrant officers,
> 
> Comrade officers, generals and admirals,
> 
> I congratulate you on the Day of Great Victory!
> 
> The defence of our Motherland when its destiny was at stake has always been sacred. It was the feeling of true patriotism that Minin and Pozharsky’s militia stood up for the Fatherland, soldiers went on the offensive at the Borodino Field and fought the enemy outside Moscow and Leningrad, Kiev and Minsk, Stalingrad and Kursk, Sevastopol and Kharkov.
> 
> Today, as in the past, you are fighting for our people in Donbass, for the security of our Motherland, for Russia.
> 
> May 9, 1945 has been enshrined in world history forever as a triumph of the united Soviet people, its cohesion and spiritual power, an unparalleled feat on the front lines and on the home front.
> 
> Victory Day is intimately dear to all of us. There is no family in Russia that was not burnt by the Great Patriotic War. Its memory never fades. On this day, children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren of the heroes march in an endless flow of the Immortal Regiment. They carry photos of their family members, the fallen soldiers who remained young forever, and the veterans who are already gone.
> 
> We take pride in the unconquered courageous generation of the victors, we are proud of being their successors, and it is our duty to preserve the memory of those who defeated Nazism and entrusted us with being vigilant and doing everything to thwart the horror of another global war.
> 
> Therefore, despite all controversies in international relations, Russia has always advocated the establishment of an equal and indivisible security system which is critically needed for the entire international community.
> 
> Last December we proposed signing a treaty on security guarantees. Russia urged the West to hold an honest dialogue in search for meaningful and compromising solutions, and to take account of each other’s interests. All in vain. NATO countries did not want to heed us, which means they had totally different plans. And we saw it.
> 
> Another punitive operation in Donbass, an invasion of our historic lands, including Crimea, was openly in the making. Kiev declared that it could attain nuclear weapons. The NATO bloc launched an active military build-up on the territories adjacent to us.
> 
> Thus, an absolutely unacceptable threat to us was steadily being created right on our borders. There was every indication that a clash with neo-Nazis and Banderites backed by the United States and their minions was unavoidable.
> 
> Let me repeat, we saw the military infrastructure being built up, hundreds of foreign advisors starting work, and regular supplies of cutting-edge weaponry being delivered from NATO countries. The threat grew every day.
> 
> Russia launched a pre-emptive strike at the aggression. It was a forced, timely and the only correct decision. A decision by a sovereign, strong and independent country.
> 
> *The United States began claiming their exceptionalism, particularly after the collapse of the Soviet Union, thus denigrating not just the entire world but also their satellites, who have to pretend not to see anything, and to obediently put up with it.*
> 
> But we are a different country. Russia has a different character. We will never give up our love for our Motherland, our faith and traditional values, our ancestors’ customs and respect for all peoples and cultures.
> 
> Meanwhile, the West seems to be set to cancel these millennia-old values. Such moral degradation underlies the cynical falsifications of World War II history, escalating Russophobia, praising traitors, mocking their victims’ memory and crossing out the courage of those who won the Victory through suffering.
> 
> We are aware that US veterans who wanted to come to the parade in Moscow were actually forbidden to do so. But I want them to know: We are proud of your deeds and your contribution to our common Victory.
> 
> We honour all soldiers of the allied armies – the Americans, the English, the French, Resistance fighters, brave soldiers and partisans in China – all those who defeated Nazism and militarism.
> 
> Comrades,
> 
> Donbass militia alongside with the Russian Army are fighting on their land today, where princes Svyatoslav and Vladimir Monomakh’s retainers, solders under the command of Rumyantsev and Potemkin, Suvorov and Brusilov crushed their enemies, where Great Patriotic War heroes Nikolai Vatutin, Sidor Kovpak and Lyudmila Pavlichenko stood to the end.
> 
> I am addressing our Armed Forces and Donbass militia. You are fighting for our Motherland, its future, so that nobody forgets the lessons of World War II, so that there is no place in the world for torturers, death squads and Nazis.
> 
> Today, we bow our heads to the sacred memory of all those who lost their lives in the Great Patriotic War, the memories of the sons, daughters, fathers, mothers, grandfathers, husbands, wives, brothers, sisters, relatives and friends.
> 
> *We bow our heads to the memory of the Odessa martyrs who were burned alive in the House of Trade Unions in May 2014*, to the memory of the old people, women and children of Donbass who were killed in atrocious and barbaric shelling by neo-Nazis. We bow our heads to our fighting comrades who died a brave death in the righteous battle – for Russia.
> 
> I declare a minute of silence.
> 
> (A minute of silence.)
> 
> The loss of each officer and soldier is painful for all of us and an irretrievable loss for the families and friends. The government, regional authorities, enterprises and public organisations will do everything to wrap such families in care and help them. Special support will be given to the children of the killed and wounded comrades-in-arms. The Presidential Executive Order to this effect was signed today.
> 
> I wish a speedy recovery to the wounded soldiers and officers, and I thank doctors, paramedics, nurses and staff of military hospitals for their selfless work. Our deepest gratitude goes to you for saving each life, oftentimes sparing no thought for yourselves under shelling on the frontlines.
> 
> Comrades,
> 
> Soldiers and officers from many regions of our enormous Motherland, including those who arrived straight from Donbass, from the combat area, are standing now shoulder-to-shoulder here, on Red Square.
> 
> We remember how Russia’s enemies tried to use international terrorist gangs against us, how they tried to seed inter-ethnic and religious strife so as to weaken us from within and divide us. They failed completely.
> 
> Today, our warriors of different ethnicities are fighting together, shielding each other from bullets and shrapnel like brothers.
> 
> This is where the power of Russia lies, a great invincible power of our united multi-ethnic nation.
> 
> You are defending today what your fathers, grandfathers and great-grandfathers fought for. The wellbeing and security of their Motherland was their top priority in life. Loyalty to our Fatherland is the main value and a reliable foundation of Russia’s independence for us, their successors, too.
> 
> Those who crushed Nazism during the Great Patriotic War showed us an example of heroism for all ages. This is the generation of victors, and we will always look up to them.
> 
> Glory to our heroic Armed Forces!
> 
> For Russia! For Victory!
> 
> Hooray!


----------



## Soldier35

A damaged Russian Su-25 landed in Ukraine on one engine. While performing a combat mission in Ukraine, a Su-25 aircraft, the second in the pair, was hit by a missile fired from the ground by Ukrainian servicemen. The pilot of the damaged aircraft decided to turn off the damaged engine and not leave the aircraft. At this time, the leader of the pair, Lieutenant Colonel Denis Litvinov, seeing the launch of another rocket, released heat traps and covered his friend’s damaged plane from missiles with his plane.

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> How sweet. A family reunion just like in the American films. Just that this is the same fellow who is involved in a Ukainian Nazi battalion which is involved in rapes and looting. Just like the reality of the American military. When asked how he was seen in the group of Nazi rapists and looters he said he had been photoshopped into the picture.



Please no russian Propaganda. Look i really appreciate your posts in other topics.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523581530198532096


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Please no russian Propaganda. Look i really appreciate your posts in other topics.



@Tai Hai Chen had posted a tweet two or three days ago that exposed this man. Thank you for your liking of my posts elsewhere but here I ask you not to get so much affected by your hate of Russia that you don't see right from wrong.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523605175755108352

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523597517740740608

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> @Tai Hai Chen had posted a tweet two or three days ago that exposed this man. Thank you for your liking of my posts elsewhere but here I ask you not to get so much affected by your hate of Russia that you don't see right from wrong.



I dont hate Russia. Russia is an enemy of Europe and as you may understand i want a threat to be removed. Thats not hate. I always wanted visit lake baikal and im actually sad that i will never be able to do so. 


Once Russia retreats from Ukraine and is not hostile with europe all this can change

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523318494401798145


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523607158541094912

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## EAGLE777

F-22Raptor said:


> US armed forces during the first Gulf War would wreck this Russian Army.
> 
> The Russians are more like orcs than a true military. True cannon fodder.


Russian army is outdated they stand no chance against any military in the top 10 let alone US armed forces.

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> I dont hate Russia. Russia is an enemy of Europe and as you may understand i want a threat to be removed. Thats not hate. I always wanted visit lake baikal and im actually sad that i will never be able to do so.
> 
> 
> Once Russia retreats from Ukraine and is not hostile with europe all this can change



Good that you have rejected your previous position where didn't consider Russia civilized. Nice that you want to visit the lake Baikal which will definitely be possible if Europe convinces Zelensky to expel the Nazis from Ukraine and puts on trial all those in the Ukrainian military who committed crimes against former Ukrainians and in the rest of the war zone.



SilentEagle said:


> Russian army is outdated they stand no chance against any military in the top 10 let alone US armed forces.



Yes because Sultan Erdogan's Syrian-and-Libyan-killer and Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood supporter military will invade Russia and take Moscow in a week.


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Good that you have rejected your previous position where didn't consider Russia civilized. Nice that you want to visit the lake Baikal which will definitely be possible if Europe convinces Zelensky to expel the Nazis from Ukraine and puts on trial all those in the Ukrainian military who committed crimes against former Ukrainians and in the rest of the war zone.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes because Sultan Erdogan's Syrian-and-Libyan-killer and Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood supporter military will invade Russia and take Moscow in a week.



First we must expell putinist nazis from Ukraine. Then deputnize Russia. As long Putinism is in Russia, we will have cold war.

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## EAGLE777

jamahir said:


> Good that you have rejected your previous position where didn't consider Russia civilized. Nice that you want to visit the lake Baikal which will definitely be possible if Europe convinces Zelensky to expel the Nazis from Ukraine and puts on trial all those in the Ukrainian military who committed crimes against former Ukrainians and in the rest of the war zone.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes because Sultan Erdogan's Syrian-and-Libyan-killer and Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood supporter military will invade Russia and take Moscow in a week.


Turkish officials never made such statements it is a lie.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> First we must expell putinist nazis from Ukraine. Then deputnize Russia. As long Putinism is in Russia, we will have cold war.



You are back again.  Well, if you don't want Putin then you will have to deal with the Communists.



jamahir said:


> Yes because Sultan Erdogan's Syrian-and-Libyan-killer and Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood supporter military will invade Russia and take Moscow in a week.





SilentEagle said:


> Turkish officials never made such statements it is a lie.



@Foinikas, wasn't there a statement to that effect ?


----------



## EAGLE777

Russian army is demotivated and suffering heavy casualties such huge losses are unsustainable Ukraine will win.



jamahir said:


> You are back again.  Well, if you don't want Putin then you will have to deal with the Communists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Foinikas, wasn't there a statement to that effect ?


The bs was spread by a western satire magazine shows what kind of an idiot you really are to believe it was really said by Turkish officials.


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> You are back again.  Well, if you don't want Putin then you will have to deal with the Communists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Foinikas, wasn't there a statement to that effect ?



I have no problem with the communists. The goal is to permanently weaken russia so it poses no threat anymore. We are on a good way regarding that.

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## jamahir

SilentEagle said:


> The bs was spread by a western satire magazine shows what kind of an idiot you really are to believe it was really said by Turkish officials.



I will wait for Foinikas's explanation.



Apollon said:


> I have no problem with the communists.



Good that you rejected that previous position of yours too.  



Apollon said:


> The goal is to permanently weaken russia so it poses no threat anymore. We are on a good way regarding that.



I don't think that will happen soon.

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## BHAN85

Apollon said:


> First we must expell putinist nazis from Ukraine. Then deputnize Russia. As long Putinism is in Russia, we will have cold war.



You can deputinize Russia if you invent a weapon more powerful than the 5000 Russian nukes.

Meanwhile it's wishful thinking, Western insane suicidal self-destructive propaganda.

American elite understand this obvious thing, because they are sovereign and smart.
EU dumbshit burocrats and their little dumbshit ciberfans can't because they are idiots, and brainwashed by a nonsense ideology of lies, because they obbey orders by money, they are corrupt and just dumbsh*t.

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## zartosht

Mariupol sign in english and ukie. But not Russian, even though thats mariupols common language:








If this is not cultural genocide, I dont know what is. Russians need to cleanse Ukraine from this imposed wester puppet coup regime

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## The SC

Russian Defense: Downing of two Donetsk MiG-29 fighters and a Su-25 fighter in the Kharkov region
@Alhadath_Brk

Russian Defense: Our forces destroyed an American-made radar in Ukraine
@AlainBRK

Russian Defense: Destruction of Ukrainian helicopters on the outskirts of Odessa using Onyx cruise missiles
@AJABreaking

#Ukraine - Kyiv announces the killing of the deputy commander of the navy by a missile from a Russian fighter that targeted his helicopter
@Alhadath_Brk

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## nang2

zartosht said:


> Mariupol sign in english and ukie. But not Russian, even though thats mariupols common language:
> 
> View attachment 842542
> 
> 
> 
> If this is not cultural genocide, I dont know what is. Russians need to cleanse Ukraine from this imposed wester puppet coup regime


In contrast, in XinJiang, China, Uyghur text is on every road sign, even though it is not the language spoken by the majority since there is not a single ethnic majority.

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## The SC

Putin's speech was calm and devoid of surprises

There is no official declaration of war
No advertisement for full mobilization
No claim of victory

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## jamahir

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523607158541094912



Al Jazeera which turned pro-NATO in 2011 and against Muammar Gaddafi and Bashar al Assad won't of course report of the Ukrainian military dead that the Russians store in sheds and bury some properly but whom the Zelensky government did not take or acknowledge. There was a post about this here weeks ago.

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## Foinikas

jamahir said:


> @Foinikas, wasn't there a statement to that effect ?


Cavusoglu had made a comment many years ago,implying Turkey with help from their NATO allies could occupy Russia in 7 days. That's why I had made a meme back then:









The SC said:


> Putin's speech was calm and devoid of surprises
> 
> There is no official declaration of war
> No advertisement for full mobilization
> No claim of victory
> 
> View attachment 842546


It's funny,because the Western media kept saying for days that would warn of nuclear war and chaos

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## nang2

Foinikas said:


> It's funny,because the Western media kept saying for days that would warn of nuclear war and chaos


Because they know their audiences are so busy on the social network that they won't remember anything they heard one day earlier.

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> I will wait for Foinikas's explanation.
> 
> 
> 
> Good that you rejected that previous position of yours too.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think that will happen soon.



It already did happen. Russias economy is crushed and their army gets dissolved in acid bath Ukraine

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## jamahir

Foinikas said:


> Cavusoglu had made a comment many years ago,implying Turkey with help from their NATO allies could occupy Russia in 7 days. That's why I had made a meme back then:
> 
> View attachment 842548



@SilentEagle


----------



## Apollon

BHAN85 said:


> You can deputinize Russia if you invent a weapon more powerful than the 5000 Russian nukes.
> 
> Meanwhile it's wishful thinking, Western insane suicidal self-destructive propaganda.
> 
> American elite understand this obvious thing, because they are sovereign and smart.
> EU dumbshit burocrats and their little dumbshit ciberfans can't because they are idiots, and brainwashed by a nonsense ideology of lies, because they obbey orders by money, they are corrupt and just dumbsh*t.



We deUSSRsized Russia before. 🙂👍



jamahir said:


> I will wait for Foinikas's explanation.
> 
> 
> 
> Good that you rejected that previous position of yours too.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think that will happen soon.



You btw often dont understand. 


I have no problems with communists in russia when russia got permanent crippled.

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## Foinikas

jamahir said:


> @SilentEagle


But again that was back during the Battle of Al Bab. Years ago.



Apollon said:


> We deUSSRsized Russia before.


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> You btw often dont understand.
> 
> 
> I have no problems with communists in russia when russia got permanent crippled.



You actually don't understand this, the Communist party of Russia is the second-largest party there and consequently spread everywhere including in the bureaucracy and military. You think NATO will snap its fingers and the Russian Communists will obey to not do anything, to not defend their country, to not counter ?



Foinikas said:


> But again that was back during the Battle of Al Bab. Years ago.



Still I suppose the Erdogan government will retain such fantasies.  That their drones and all supplied to Zelensky have "performed well".

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523666672569434118

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## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523338488082407424
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523333059348676609


It was almost next to the island and it was flying so low. If it was any lower, it wold be submarine. 

And still it got destroyed.


----------



## BHAN85

Apollon said:


> We deUSSRsized Russia before. 🙂👍



True, but now it exists China to substitute Western commerce with Russia.

China in the USSR collapsed was nothing.


----------



## Foinikas

jamahir said:


> Still I suppose the Erdogan government will retain such fantasies.  That their drones and all supplied to Zelensky have "performed well".


At some point the Russians or Westerners will get angry at them for being two-faced


----------



## Hydration

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523417103851679744

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523675385581699073


----------



## jamahir

Foinikas said:


> At some point the Russians or Westerners will get angry at them for being two-faced



I didn't understand, why would Westerners get angry at Erdogan ?


----------



## zartosht

Hydration said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523417103851679744



pathetic attempt at western propaganda.

Make outlandish rumours, attribute them to Russian sources, and when it is proven to be obviously false...

you *SCREAM: *OMG!! RUSSIA FAKE NEWS!!! WEST STRONK 

and then that is used as evidence of Russian "fake news" and then when legitimate news comes of western terrorists captured by the Russian army, They can be deflected as "same as the canadian general? blalablalbla west stronk!!!"

really sad... do better

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## The SC

The Pentagon: Russia's cyber capabilities are disrupting Ukraine's vital networks

@AlArabiya_Brk


----------



## EAGLE777

Foinikas said:


> Cavusoglu had made a comment many years ago,implying Turkey with help from their NATO allies could occupy Russia in 7 days. That's why I had made a meme back then:
> 
> View attachment 842548
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny,because the Western media kept saying for days that would warn of nuclear war and chaos


Another moron spreading lies. Çavuşoğlu never made that statement it was done by a satire magazine to troll Turks.



Foinikas said:


> At some point the Russians or Westerners will get angry at them for being two-faced


Oh we’re so scared pls don’t get angry what will we do if you get angry?? 🥹🥹🥹


----------



## RoadAmerica

The SC said:


> You forgot an important detail.. the blockade and the sanctions on Iraq by the US and NATO for 12 years prior to the 2003..where there was almost a million dead children..or you just ignored this fact?
> 
> Also KSA and GCC were just fronts for the US.. Check Hilary Clinton statements..


Not the sanctions and children again. 
We went though this, cause and effect. Actions have consequences.


----------



## Foinikas

SilentEagle said:


> Another moron spreading lies. Çavuşoğlu never made that statement it was done by a satire magazine to troll Turks.


Then how did I watch him on TV saying it? 



SilentEagle said:


> Oh we’re so scared pls don’t get angry what will we do if you get angry?? 🥹🥹🥹


Well,you might say goodbye to spare parts for American equipment,get economic sanctions just like the Russians,have a total embargo of oil and goods maybe. You see what they did to the Russians.

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## Basel

Apollon said:


> What has Iraq to do with Ukraine? Dude stop whataboutism. Russia is a facist terror regime that comitts horrible crimes in Ukraine.
> 
> As for rest of your bullshit, glad you admitt that Russia terrorized eastern europe and only gave "freedom" to them when it became too weak. Guess what? Those 12 eastern european nations dont have intention to get attacked by russia again. Because of that they join NATO and other will follow.



If Ukraine is attacked then whole west is putting sanctions on Russia asking for war crimes action against Russia.
Why UK and US leaders were not put to war crimes trials for invading Iraq and Libya on false narrative?? Western countries are Hypocrites.

On Ukraine war whole west start crying "OMG war in civilized world how this can be, we are not barbarians like ME, Africa and rest of global south" etc.

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## Hydration

zartosht said:


> pathetic attempt at western propaganda.
> 
> Make outlandish rumours, attribute them to Russian sources, and when it is proven to be obviously false...
> 
> you *SCREAM: *OMG!! RUSSIA FAKE NEWS!!! WEST STRONK
> 
> and then that is used as evidence of Russian "fake news" and then when legitimate news comes of western terrorists captured by the Russian army, They can be deflected as "same as the canadian general? blalablalbla west stronk!!!"
> 
> really sad... do better


ukraine is not fighting nato is

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## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> To be honest I knew the Russian army was incompetent,but this level of incompetence ? Regrouping the equivalent of a BTG on such a small land area,visible from kilometers without any cover or camouflage,with all the drones that are flying in the area and in range of the ennemy's artillery.... @LeGenD @F-22Raptor
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523341207484571652


To be fair, I see one vehicle get hit, while the tanks seem untouched. And they are all clustered together and safe.



Basel said:


> If NATO is not against Russia then why NATO didn't allow Russia to join it??


Russia didnt want to join. It didnt want to fulfil the NATO criteria with democratic and political reforms.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523684441108877312

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## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523368617987162112


Wow, how clever and how hot is this girl?

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523710527515807744

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523690766773944321

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## thetutle

dBSPL said:


> I dont know if any of you remember but, Wagner mercenaries in favor of the putschists in Libya tried to make propaganda by loading the TB-2 wreckage into a pickup truck and photographing it in different places.
> 
> Now same thing again.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520002204651900928
> If the Russians had been as diligent on the battlefield as they were in propaganda works as like, their current situation would have been much better than they are now.


its very frustrating for them because TB2 is probably 100km away from their territory at any time an even if they do shoot it it wont fall anywhere near them.

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## thetutle

Huffal said:


> No no. The UN didnt do shit when the Bosnians were genocided. The only UN country to do something meaningful was Pakistan, and that was by sending Bakta Shikan ATGM and other weaponry to Bosnia to defend themselves.


US and Uk imposed a no fly zone. which helped tremendously. And allowed Pakistani weapons to enter Bosnia. They could have stopped it. And allowed Iranian weapons to enter Bosnia. And bombed serb C&C positions which allowed us and craitian army to overrun the serbs. 

It would be nice if they could do it sooner. but hey.

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## Paul2

BHAN85 said:


> You can deputinize Russia if you invent a weapon more powerful than the 5000 Russian nukes.



I like how you put it


----------



## Wergeland

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523666672569434118



By closing the door to Russia completeley Europe will effectively cede Eastern Europe to Asia. Geography dosent negotiate….it is what it is. 

Russia is a bridge or barrier between Europe and Asia.

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523690766773944321



Kalibr flies with radionavigation as far as I know. Russia largely lost Soviet INS tech: fine gyroscopes, rlgs, astrogation, TERCON, command guidance over satellite tech.

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## Wergeland

Basel said:


> If Ukraine is attacked then whole west is putting sanctions on Russia asking for war crimes action against Russia.
> Why UK and US leaders were not put to war crimes trials for invading Iraq and Libya on false narrative?? Western countries are Hypocrites.
> 
> On Ukraine war whole west start crying "OMG war in civilized world how this can be, we are not barbarians like ME, Africa and rest of global south" etc.



The West is clever enough to unite against everyone else. Why is it the wests problem that Muslims cannot unite?

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## thetutle

jamahir said:


> You actually don't understand this, the Communist party of Russia is the second-largest party there and consequently spread everywhere including in the bureaucracy and military. You think NATO will snap its fingers and the Russian Communists will obey to not do anything, to not defend their country, to not counter ?


You are not listening to him. He said he doesn't not care about communists or if they rule russia or if they control everything in russia. or what they do in russia, 

In fact I believe the best way to totally crush russia is to allow communists to somehow take over.

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## Foinikas

Basel said:


> If Ukraine is attacked then whole west is putting sanctions on Russia asking for war crimes action against Russia.
> Why UK and US leaders were not put to war crimes trials for invading Iraq and Libya on false narrative?? Western countries are Hypocrites.
> 
> On Ukraine war whole west start crying "OMG war in civilized world how this can be, we are not barbarians like ME, Africa and rest of global south" etc.


That's exactly what I've been saying from the beginning. The hypocrisy of Western countries and media. 

Nobody put Bush on trial,nobody put Clinton on trial,Obama,Blair,any of those who invaded the Middle-East or destroyed entire countries by giving weapons and money to rebel groups. No sanctions on them,their friends,their countries,their people and their oligarchs. Then suddenly,Putin evil,Putin dictator,Russians are butchers,we must destroy evil Russia,Chechens are brutal (meanwhile they were brave warriors back when they fought against the Russians),China is too neutral,Hungary is too conservative,everyone who doesn't agree with us is a fascist,racist,nazi etc. 

Meanwhile...

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## Elvin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523705014639685633

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## nang2

Elvin said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523705014639685633


I hate people freely throw terms around that they don't really know. Does he even know what fascism means?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523613080063979527
US President Joe Biden signs the "Lend-Lease Act to Defend Democracy in Ukraine"

@alhurra


----------



## EAGLE777

Foinikas said:


> Then how did I watch him on TV saying it?
> 
> 
> Well,you might say goodbye to spare parts for American equipment,get economic sanctions just like the Russians,have a total embargo of oil and goods maybe. You see what they did to the Russians.


Show me where did he say that on tv. If you can show it i will apologize from you leave the forum and never come back.


----------



## The SC

Great Kamyszuwaka west of Izium was occupied today by the Russians. This means that Ukrainian attempts to attack from the west towards Izium will be unsuccessful.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523736247319273472

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## A.P. Richelieu

Basel said:


> If Ukraine is attacked then whole west is putting sanctions on Russia asking for war crimes action against Russia.
> Why UK and US leaders were not put to war crimes trials for invading Iraq and Libya on false narrative?? Western countries are Hypocrites.
> 
> On Ukraine war whole west start crying "OMG war in civilized world how this can be, we are not barbarians like ME, Africa and rest of global south" etc.


The Libya action was not an invasion in its normal meaning. A no fly zone was implemented and forces threatening Libyan civilians were treated with air strikes.
Gadaffi started killing people demonstrating for democracy to replace his illegal regime as part of the Arab Spring. The UNSC decided on a resolution calling for all countries to put a stop on Gadaffis atrocities.
That is what the 2011 action did.

As for Iraq:
Did Iraq violate the ceasefire by firing SAMs on coalition aircraft?
Did Iraq attempt to assassinate George H.W, Bush?

The answer to those questions determine the legality of Gulf War II.

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## Wood



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## lightning F57

A.P. Richelieu said:


> As for Iraq:
> Did Iraq violate the ceasefire by firing SAMs on coalition aircraft?
> Did Iraq attempt to assassinate George H.W, Bush?
> 
> The answer to those questions determine the legality of Gulf War II.



Thats a load of tosh and you know it. The war in Iraq was an illegal invasion based on a pretext of wmd's which were never there. The west is full of hyprocrasy would be good for people to just admit it rather than backing war crimes committed by Nato members.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523763246041567232

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## Daylamite Warrior

Wergeland said:


> The West is clever enough to unite against everyone else. Why is it the wests problem that Muslims cannot unite?


Because, since the Crusades, the west has spent its entire resources and focus to stop Muslims and non-westerners to not have the power, economy or military to be able to unite against them. It's not so much the "wests problem" but rather the west's planning and orchestration.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523696898061701120

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523744830962429952


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## Foinikas

SilentEagle said:


> Show me where did he say that on tv. If you can show it i will apologize from you leave the forum and never come back.


If I find a video of it online,I'll post it. Supposedly he said it on a Turkish channel. I remember I watched it on TV. Maybe I watched about it but not him actually saying it? It's been like 7 years 🤔

I'll try to find the video or more info about it.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523653742821711872

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523757781039284224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523781986116333570


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## Wergeland

Daylamite Warrior said:


> Because, since the Crusades, the west has spent its entire resources and focus to stop Muslims and non-westerners to not have the power, economy or military to be able to unite against them. It's not so much the "wests problem" but rather the west's planning and orchestration.



True story is that european nations have been figting among eachother since time immeorable. Ww1 and WW2 is just continuiation of that pattern. 

The question is what stops rest of the world from catching up and becoming dominant like the west did? Western europe historically wasnt that advanced or central to world as it slowly became during past 500 years .

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523781839436926977

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## Kağan Zafer

Kashmiri Rebel said:


> You are an idiot still believing what pentagon says. They were saying Afghan army will not fall.
> One day you will wake up hearing that Ukraine has also fell.


They never said that. The Pentagon was well aware that Taliban forces will eventually seize the country, however, this is the wrong topic to discuss this matter.


----------



## Wood

Interview from Canadian volunteer who serves as spotter for Sniper Wali 🇨🇦

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523698956651622401

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523784751198666754

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523771575505678336

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523781333528739840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523781621370875904

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523722359479615489

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523658514451013632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523656909269905408

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523805188766769152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523805189874282496

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523817194861248518

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## CAPRICORN-88

Hydration said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523417103851679744


Is this verified?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523750614551109632


----------



## Elvin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523732519203471360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523690766773944321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522621882473893889

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## CAPRICORN-88



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## Paul2

Week's end summary:


Slow grind continues
Casualties mount on both sides
Kharkiv region success at mopup
If not for Kharkiv success, loss ratio would've been nearing 1:1
It's WW2 warfare reenacted, infantry, and massed artillery, with sparse tank usage in fire support
The warmer weather now empowers the attacker, soldiers can now scatter, and sleep in the fields.

This greatly increased the number of encounters during Ukrainians trying to get into Russian flanks. Some random bursts, and RPG rounds from trenches do meet their targets.

So, it's harder for Ukrainians to get Russians with a surprise during flanking. This also reduces Russian infantry losses, as less people sleep in vehicles, or abandoned buildings.

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## Wood




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## A.P. Richelieu

lightning F57 said:


> Thats a load of tosh and you know it. The war in Iraq was an illegal invasion based on a pretext of wmd's which were never there. The west is full of hyprocrasy would be good for people to just admit it rather than backing war crimes committed by Nato members.


The United States presented three Casus Belli and one is enough.
Hypocrites ignore the two I mentioned.


----------



## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The Libya action was not an invasion in its normal meaning. A no fly zone was implemented and forces threatening Libyan civilians were treated with air strikes.
> Gadaffi started killing people demonstrating for democracy to replace his illegal regime as part of the Arab Spring. The UNSC decided on a resolution calling for all countries to put a stop on Gadaffis atrocities.
> That is what the 2011 action did.
> 
> As for Iraq:
> Did Iraq violate the ceasefire by firing SAMs on coalition aircraft?
> Did Iraq attempt to assassinate George H.W, Bush?
> 
> The answer to those questions determine the legality of Gulf War II.


The lybian action was an outright attack on Libyan forces in every place they were engaged or didn't engaged rebels, meanwhile arming rebels with various type of weapons
.

No way denying it and it was not so far back that we forgot what was happened there. You think we already forget rebels interview with media's that they said "it's two day we fighting with government force and we have had no progress. They bombed them several time but we think they must be bombed several more time. "

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## A.P. Richelieu

Daylamite Warrior said:


> Because, since the Crusades, the west has spent its entire resources and focus to stop Muslims and non-westerners to not have the power, economy or military to be able to unite against them. It's not so much the "wests problem" but rather the west's planning and orchestration.


The reasons for the Crusades was of course because the Muslims invaded Eastern Rome. Then the Muslims continued and tried to invade Western/Central Europe.



Hack-Hook said:


> The lybian action was an outright attack on Libyan forces in every place they were engaged or didn't engaged rebels, meanwhile arming rebels with various type of weapons
> .
> 
> No way denying it and it was not so far back that we forgot what was happened there. You think we already forget rebels interview with media's that they said "it's two day we fighting with government force and we have had no progress. They bombed them several time but we think they must be bombed several more time. "


Of course, it was the government forces that committed the atrocities,


----------



## Daylamite Warrior

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The reasons for the Crusades was of course because the Muslims invaded Eastern Rome. Then the Muslims continued and tried to invade Western/Central Europe.
> 
> 
> Of course, it was the government forces that committed the atrocities,


The Muslims invaded Eastern Rome because Eastern Rome were in Arab lands. That wasnt even my point though, so do better at derailing.

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## Daylamite Warrior

Wergeland said:


> True story is that european nations have been figting among eachother since time immeorable. Ww1 and WW2 is just continuiation of that pattern.
> 
> The question is what stops rest of the world from catching up and becoming dominant like the west did? Western europe historically wasnt that advanced or central to world as it slowly became during past 500 years .


Although in-fighting has plagued the western alliance, you are underestimating the desire of the west to be warlike, to dominate and kill as opposed to other "civilisations". Truth be told, not everyone wants to force their way of life on to others quite like the west does.

Western Europe wasnt advanced?! Rome and Greece were pretty advanced, a basic fact known by any secondary school pupil in most countries. The role of the Muslims at carrying on the elightenment of the ancient civilisations is also a factor, and the renaissance and "age of enlightenment" in Europe becomes just a piece of the puzzle. Next stop maybe a form of multipolarity or even decline.

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## Viet

This special military operation is lasting longer than planned says Lukanshenko. The lackey. He upsets Putin who always insists everything goes according to plan.

Russian army loses 100-200 soldiers per day.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Daylamite Warrior said:


> The Muslims invaded Eastern Rome because Eastern Rome were in Arab lands. That wasnt even my point though, so do better at derailing.


Palestine, Anatolia and Constantinople were not Arab land.
Bringing up the Crusades in a thread about Russia and Ukraine is the original derailing.

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## Daylamite Warrior

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Palestine, Anatolia and Constantinople are not Arab land.
> Bringing up the Crusades in a thread about Russia and Ukraine is the original derailing.


There have been Arab bedouins roaming those lands longe before any Roman or European. Go read a book.



Viet said:


> Russian army loses 100-200 soldiers per day.


Stop spreading fake news. Show sources or this post has to be removed.

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## kingQamaR

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The reasons for the Crusades was of course because the Muslims invaded Eastern Rome. Then the Muslims continued and tried to invade Western/Central Europe.
> 
> 
> Of course, it was the government forces that committed the atrocities,



Access to trade routes...so basically, money... religion was frankly secondary, although it made a good cover story (like we invaded them because they had weapons of mass destruction... except they didn't)...


----------



## Daylamite Warrior

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Palestine, Anatolia and Constantinople were not Arab land.
> Bringing up the Crusades in a thread about Russia and Ukraine is the original derailing.


Says the man who keeps bringing up libya and Iraq in a thread about Russia and Ukraine. Seems you like to derail even when people aren't speaking to you. Hope they're paying you for this.



kingQamaR said:


> Access to trade routes...so basically, money... religion was frankly secondary, although it made a good cover story (like we invaded them because they had weapons of mass destruction... except they didn't)...


Religion was a massive factor, many christians did Pilgrimage and thought they were doing God's bidding when they massacred all those women and children. Yes, some were advantageous who did it for worldly wealth. Opportunistic behaviour is a well known western cultural trait, after all.

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## kingQamaR

They were in reality neither.The Arab Islamic people had raised themselves to a higher level of civilization then existed in Europe. They also gained much wealth due to this higher level of knowledge.The Crusades were nothing more than a Church blessed armed robbery of these people and their wealth under the guise of freeing the “holy land” of the Muslims

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## Viet

Daylamite Warrior said:


> Stop spreading fake news. Show sources or this post has to be removed.


the first part of vid shows what Russia understands under liberation of a Ukraine city: total destruction.
The second part shows how Ukraine army targets hidden Russia army tanks and artillery positions: laser guided artillery shells supported by surveillance drones. Almost 100 percent accuracy.
The third part about Russia daily casualty
Overall, Russia army makes progress despite high casualties. Ukraine fights hard.


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## Daylamite Warrior

Viet said:


> the first part of vid shows what Russia understands under liberation of a Ukraine city: total destruction.
> The second part shows how Ukraine army targets hidden Russia army tanks and artillery positions: laser guided artillery shells supported by surveillance drones. Almost 100 percent accuracy.
> The third part about Russia daily casualty
> Overall, Russia army makes progress despite high casualties. Ukraine fights hard.


100% accuracy?! Says who? And I dont see any evidence for 100-200 per day casualty. What you basically did was go to the highest casualty figure from a pro Ukr source, divided it by the number of days of the conflict, and made the outrageously inaccurate statement of "100 to 200 per day".

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523729119204491264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523729121721077760

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523762074027175936

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## Viet

Daylamite Warrior said:


> 100% accuracy?! Says who? And I dont see any evidence for 100-200 per day casualty. What you basically did was go to the highest casualty figure from a pro Ukr source, divided it by the number of days of the conflict, and made the outrageously inaccurate statement of "100 to 200 per day".


Is it a picnic or what? I see this as war the number of casualties of 100-200 is very low. Extremely low. In the Vietnam/China 1979 war the casualties ran between 1,000 and 3,000 per day. At the battle of Verdun 1916 between Franco and German armies the casualties ran to one million men.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523739828705185792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523746768210771968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523685607649980416

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## Oldman1

Basel said:


> Who is send arms to Ukraine?? Who is providing ISR, EW capabilities to Ukraine?? Who is allowing ex military people to go fight for Ukraine?? Who have deployed Trainers in Ukraine??
> 
> Kindly stop this hypocrisy, and don't try to fool the world, Ukraine crisis/war is created by US and its European NATO allies, at the end only US will get benefit of this conflict.


LOL this is nothing. Look at how much the Russians supported North Vietnam during Vietnam War. The crisis was not created by the U.S. or NATO that's on the Russians who keeps on piling a list of justification after justification when the previous one wasn't cutting it.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523668510555385857

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## Oldman1

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Is this verified?


Why? You don't believe it?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523652379224457222


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

I am so disappointed. 

Ukraine lied again. 

They promised a huge FiREWORK dusplay at Moscow V-day parade. 

Now one vlog claimed the Ukrainian shot down an SU-35 but I could not find the news anywhere. Can any one prove it?

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## Oldman1

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> I am so disappointed.
> 
> Ukraine lied again.
> 
> They promised a huge FiREWORK dusplay at Moscow V-day parade.
> 
> Now one vlog claimed the Ukrainian shot down an SU-35 but I could not find the news anywhere. Can any one prove it?


I was disappointed in the parade. Missed some equipment there.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523448029927583744

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## Paul2

Viet said:


> Is it a picnic or what? I see this as war the number of casualties of 100-200 is very low. Extremely low. In the Vietnam/China 1979 war the casualties ran between 1,000 and 3,000 per day. At the battle of Verdun 1916 between Franco and German armies the casualties ran to one million men.



Russians wanted to turn Izyum into Ukrainian Verdun, but so far only get "Verdunized" themselves.

Retreat from a salient strongpoint hanging by a thread is often more pricey than breaking out of a complete encirclement because you can only retreat in 1 direction, and any worthy enemy will surely anticipate that.

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## CAPRICORN-88

The Russian celebrated May 9 in 28 cities.

No need Moscow. Firework at any one of the 28 cities will do.

We loved FIREWORK display.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523885951864700928

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523882680131239936

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## StraightEdge

Wyatt Reed on Twitter: "Incredible—Sky News host asks Russian Deputy UN Rep Dmitry Polyanskiy about the British Defense Secretary comparing Russian troops to nazis, then CUTS HIM OFF after he pulls out a tablet and shows the audience Zelensky’s Instagram post of an SS totenkopf-wearing Ukrainian soldier https://t.co/gYKhTkANtt" / Twitter

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## Viet

Paul2 said:


> Russians wanted to turn Izyum into Ukrainian Verdun, but so far only get "Verdunized" themselves.
> 
> Retreat from a salient strongpoint hanging by a thread is often more pricey than breaking out of a complete encirclement because you can only retreat in 1 direction, and any worthy enemy will surely anticipate that.


Even if Russia army celebrates victory here and there the Ukraine army will continue this war for years.
Meanwhile Russia economy heads to full collapse.
The future is bleak.
EU going to renewables, banning oil and coal, gas will be next. The point of no return is coming. There will be no revival to Russia energy imports.
North stream 2 is dead. North stream 1 is next.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Oldman1 said:


> I was disappointed in the parade. Missed some equipment there.



Liar Zalensky must be equally disappointed as President Putin did not mentioned Ukraine even once in his entire speech. 

Yes. There were no new equipment displayed in the parade. 

It was a disappointment for many military enthusiasts.

As for me, I was just waiting to watch the FIREWORK display.


----------



## LeGenD

lightning F57 said:


> Thats a load of tosh and you know it. The war in Iraq was an illegal invasion based on a pretext of wmd's which were never there. The west is full of hyprocrasy would be good for people to just admit it rather than backing war crimes committed by Nato members.



What became of Iraq is a tragedy on many counts but there is a lesson to be learned from this chapter.

Saddam Hussein was a schizophrenic tyrant and Saddam regime was a headache to all in the region without any doubt. Saddam became powerful but was full of himself. He could advance Pan-Arab cause but he prevented political efforts to unite Syria and Iraq in the 1970s, and chose to assault neighboring countries.

Bush senior administration decided to liberate Kuwait from Iraq in 1991.

Bush junior administration decided to close the chapter of Saddam regime in Iraq for better or worse. Iraqi political dissidents colluded with Bush junior administration in this matter. Rest is noise and secondary.

Iraq certainly had stockpiles of chemical weapons some of which were found after the invasion. American politics (Republicans vs. Democrats) bungled this theme, however.

Free Speech is appealing but have its drawbacks. Political coherence is lost in the process. Consensus-building is helpful and advised for sensitive matters.

WE also have similar problems when it comes to understanding Afghanistan.

Coming back to Iraq, it would have been infinitely better *if* Iraqi people could address their own problems. Perhaps Saddam had become too strong and ruthless.









Kurdish city gassed by Saddam hopes referendum heralds better days


When poison gas killed thousands of Kurds in Halabja in 1988, its residents never imagined they would ever escape Saddam Hussein's grip, let alone vote one day in a referendum on secession from Iraq.




www.reuters.com





It is not wise to give too much power to one person. There should be checks and balances in a society.

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## Oldman1

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Liar Zalensky must be equally disappointed as President Putin did not mentioned Ukraine even once in his entire speech.
> 
> Yes. There were no new equipment displayed in the parade.
> 
> It was a disappointment for many military enthusiasts.
> 
> As for me, I was just waiting to watch the FIREWORK display.


Its not about the new equipment, it was the previous equipment. Pantsirs, Smerches, TOS-1 vehicles, fewer Armata t-14 tanks, no planes even with skies not cloudy

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## CAPRICORN-88

*Meanwhile so many depressing news about the coming recessions in EU and the US in the MSM nowadays. *

African leaders blamed the US and NATO for the Ukrainian crisis that causes the economic crisis in so many countries.

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## SuperStar20

When is this DAMN war going to end? When it started, PDF members were given timeline 5-6 weeks.
Russia has no clear objective. What is the point of killing and destroying everyday. Putin should stop this war immediately. Give chance to Ukraine to act Russian demands. Russia can attack anytime if Ukraine don't follow/obey those demands.

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## Wergeland

Daylamite Warrior said:


> Although in-fighting has plagued the western alliance, you are underestimating the desire of the west to be warlike, to dominate and kill as opposed to other "civilisations". Truth be told, not everyone wants to force their way of life on to others quite like the west does.
> 
> Western Europe wasnt advanced?! Rome and Greece were pretty advanced, a basic fact known by any secondary school pupil in most countries. The role of the Muslims at carrying on the elightenment of the ancient civilisations is also a factor, and the renaissance and "age of enlightenment" in Euopea is becomes a piece of the puzzle. Next stop maybe a form of multipolarity or even decline.



Center of Western power is neither Greece or Rome. Classical civilization (Greece and Rome) is not the same Western Civilization.

I would argue that the west became so succesful because it burst onto the worlde scene at the right place and right time, escpecially considering human evolution timeline (Late middle ages to early modern period).

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## Tipu7

Do we have any recent source from Russian Officials and Ukrainian Officials each detailing the combat losses sustained by either side?


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Daylamite Warrior said:


> There have been Arab bedouins roaming those lands longe before any Roman or European. Go read a book.
> 
> 
> Stop spreading fake news. Show sources or this post has to be removed.


Does not make them Arab.


----------



## jamahir

jamahir said:


> You think NATO will snap its fingers and the Russian Communists will obey to not do anything, to not defend their country, to not counter ?





thetutle said:


> You are not listening to him. He said he doesn't not care about communists or if they rule russia or if they control everything in russia. or what they do in russia,
> 
> In fact I believe the best way to totally crush russia is to allow communists to somehow take over.



Please compare the underlined with what I wrote above.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> The Libya action was not an invasion in its normal meaning. A no fly zone was implemented and forces threatening Libyan civilians were treated with air strikes.
> Gadaffi started killing people demonstrating for democracy to replace his illegal regime as part of the Arab Spring. The UNSC decided on a resolution calling for all countries to put a stop on Gadaffis atrocities.
> That is what the 2011 action did.
> 
> As for Iraq:
> Did Iraq violate the ceasefire by firing SAMs on coalition aircraft?
> Did Iraq attempt to assassinate George H.W, Bush?
> 
> The answer to those questions determine the legality of Gulf War II.



So Gaddafi suddenly started killing "civilians including women and children" in 2011 at the same time as Assad in Syria ? Did they go insane at the same time or was it a conspiracy of NATO by using their proxies Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood ? You should realize that Libya was a true democracy in the modern world unlike the fake democracies of the Western bloc. Please read this post of mine on what a democracy is not, is, the origin of Democracy and a media report on the Libyan true democracy system.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523653742821711872



"We persuade them to become good". @Bilal9 bhai, this is what I want do do with @Sharma Ji.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523750614551109632



American "democracy" at work at top level. The president doesn't have seats around his table to offer to his assistants. He expects them to stand while he grandly sits.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523885951864700928



Sky News presenter was so embarrassed. 

And Polyansky ( who is he ? ) was brave and straightforward. 



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523882680131239936



If the war prolongs North Korea can send its soldiers to get practice and help the world's sane people in the process.



SuperStar20 said:


> When is this DAMN war going to end? When it started, PDF members were given timeline 5-6 weeks.
> Russia has no clear objective. What is the point of killing and destroying everyday. Putin should stop this war immediately. Give chance to Ukraine to act Russian demands. Russia can attack anytime if Ukraine don't follow/obey those demands.



Maybe a four day ceasefire.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Xi tells Scholz that Europe's security should be kept in the hands of Europeans’​
*Chinese and German leaders discuss war in Ukraine and other issues during video call on Monday*
*Xi urges European nations ‘to make every effort’ to prevent conflict from reaching ‘point of* no return’

SCMP May 9

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## CAPRICORN-88

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Xi tells Scholz that Europe's security should be kept in the hands of Europeans’​
> *Chinese and German leaders discuss war in Ukraine and other issues during video call on Monday*
> *Xi urges European nations ‘to make every effort’ to prevent conflict from reaching ‘point of* no return’
> 
> SCMP May 9


Meaning: Don't come round and expects the rest of us to clean up all the mess you have created in Ukraine due to lack of leadership.

The leadership and the destiny of EU should be determined by Europeans and not outside esp. the US. 

Many EU nations are beginning to speak out.

Bulgaria has just joined Hungary and Slovakia and have openly criticized the EU commission.
It has decide to VETO any sanction against Russian Oil.

EU under rhe present set up in Brussel is facing a deep division and crisis. It may eventually split up.

It is happening.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523771577187282944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523787677568765953


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## CAPRICORN-88

Meanwhile in Philippines, Ferdinand Marco Jr. is overwhelmingly elected as the new President.

His opponent who ran on a pro-USA agenda and her defeat spelled trouble for the US foreign policy.

The US needed her badly to further their anti-China and encirclement strategy.

Looks like the Filipino are smarter than the Europeans.

They determined their own destiny and future.

Even the rebellious Mindanao Province is at peace now.

Ukraine with their Donbass, Lugansk and Donesk.

Philippines with their Mindanao.

Philippines managed to settle it peacefully under President Duterte.

Zalensky cause Ukraine to split up. Who has he to thank for?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523781425442410496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523781621370875904

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## CAPRICORN-88

That is why ASEAN shown its ambivalence towards the Ukrainian crisis. It is not in their interest but many of them are silently dumping their US dollars reserves. 

It is a TRAP every ASEAN nation recognized and will not participate.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523925330578321415

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## CAPRICORN-88

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523781425442410496
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523781621370875904



To be used as cannon fodders. 

But it was their own choice. Nobody forced them. 

What has Ukraine got to do with says Canadians? Utterly brainwashed and stupid. 

IMO I must says CGTN has a more balance reporting. They reports events from both side fairly. 

The anchors are very professuonal e.g. Liu Xin and will never edit or censored their guest opinions. They reported the news as it is. 

I like RT as well. Although sometime they do cross the line with their personal opinions. 

BBC is a hodgepodge of real and fake. 

While Al Jazeera, CNN, Fox are mainly rubbish media with obvious agenda. 

Let us decide. We are not idiots. The days when they cam easily brainwashed us is almost over. 

Just that most viewers, audience are plain lazy or caught up with a fixation in their minds.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523703035201220608






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523754467308359680

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523703035201220608
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523754467308359680

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## jamahir

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523754467308359680



 @Apollon

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## Ali_Baba

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523664324950036480
Brilliant - for those who love Attenboroughs work!

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## jamahir

Vergennes said:


> View attachment 842751



Must say, NATO is good with two Gs - CGI and Genocide.

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## Piotr

Tipu7 said:


> Do we have any recent source from Russian Officials and Ukrainian Officials each detailing the combat losses sustained by either side?



Russian forces destroy 793 drones, 2,979 armored vehicles in Ukraine operation - top brass​MOSCOW, May 10. /TASS/. Russian forces have eliminated 163 Ukrainian combat aircraft, 124 helicopters, 793 unmanned aerial vehicles and 2,979 tanks and other armored vehicles since the start of their special military operation in Ukraine, Russian Defense Ministry Spokesman Major-General Igor Konashenkov said on Tuesday.
"Overall, the following targets have been destroyed since the beginning of the special military operation: 163 aircraft, 124 helicopters, 793 unmanned aerial vehicles, 300 surface-to-air missile systems, 2,979 tanks and other combat armored vehicles, 351 multiple launch rocket systems, 1,440 field artillery guns and mortars and 2,789 special military motor vehicles," the spokesman said.

https://tass.com/russia/1448909

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## Primus

Tipu7 said:


> Do we have any recent source from Russian Officials and Ukrainian Officials each detailing the combat losses sustained by either side?


No not really. Its all unofficial. The official causality reports are old.


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## sha ah

So the Russians now have 2 pincers each 20-30 km away from Kramatorsk and another potential pincer in the east-south east 30-40 km away. It's basically game over for Ukraine. It's just a matter of time. Zelensky wants to launch a "large counter offensive" in mid June-July but won't Russians just annihilate any large formations off the map with satellite reconnaissance, missiles, rockets, artillery, jets ?

After that if the Ukrainians don't want to stop the Russians will likely take Odessa. After that if the Ukrainians still don't want to negotiate then the Russians will likely besiege Dnipro and Kharkiv once again or just keep hitting Ukrainian targets without mercy.

The center circle is Kramatorsk






Despite this reality on the ground this is the kind of garbage you hear in the western mainstream media. Utter lies. Americans can't afford healthcare but always have money for wars ? US is the only industrialized country without universal healthcare. 10% of the population do not have any healthcare and insulin costs 8x more than in Canada. Lloyd Austin their current defense secretary used to be on the board of directors of Raytheon. I mean come on need I say more ?

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## WotTen

A.P. Richelieu said:


> As for Iraq:
> Did Iraq violate the ceasefire by firing SAMs on coalition aircraft?
> Did Iraq attempt to assassinate George H.W, Bush?
> 
> The answer to those questions determine the legality of Gulf War II.



Saddam's decision to sell oil in EUR instead of USD was the, uh, legality of Gulf War II.

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## jamahir

sha ah said:


> Americans can't afford healthcare but always have money for wars ?



700+ billion dollars just for 2020-21.

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## WotTen

Wergeland said:


> True story is that european nations have been figting among eachother since time immeorable. Ww1 and WW2 is just continuiation of that pattern.
> 
> The question is what stops rest of the world from catching up and becoming dominant like the west did? Western europe historically wasnt that advanced or central to world as it slowly became during past 500 years .



Westerners evolved to look past their religious and ethnic differences and realized that cooperation was more fruitful.

Muslims are still obsessed with ethnic and religious differences. Many Muslim countries live in the past and want to recreate historical empires by conquering or dominating other Muslim neighbors.

And I say this as a Muslim.

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## WotTen

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The reasons for the Crusades was of course because the Muslims invaded Eastern Rome. Then the Muslims continued and tried to invade Western/Central Europe.



The reason for the Crusades was that unemployed knights were busy terrorizing European neighborhoods, and local thugs with too much time on their hands were squabbling each other, so Pope Urban II decided to send them all to to a far off land so they could not cause mischief in Europe.


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## A.P. Richelieu

Daylamite Warrior said:


> Says the man who keeps bringing up libya and Iraq in a thread about Russia and Ukraine. Seems you like to derail even when people aren't speaking to you. Hope they're paying you for this.
> 
> 
> Religion was a massive factor, many christians did Pilgrimage and thought they were doing God's bidding when they massacred all those women and children. Yes, some were advantageous who did it for worldly wealth. Opportunistic behaviour is a well known western cultural trait, after all.








Basel bringing up Iraq and Libya.




Someone you might be familiar with bringing up the Crusades…



WotTen said:


> The reason for the Crusades was that unemployed knights were busy terrorizing European neighborhoods, and local thugs with too much time on their hands were squabbling each other, so Pope Urban II decided to send them all to to a far off land so they could not cause mischief in Europe.


The reason for the Crusades was that the rules for pilgrimage to Jerusalem changed.
That was the final straw.



WotTen said:


> Saddam's decision to sell oil in EUR instead of USD was the, uh, legality of Gulf War II.


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## Paul2

SuperStar20 said:


> When is this DAMN war going to end? When it started, PDF members were given timeline 5-6 weeks.
> Russia has no clear objective. What is the point of killing and destroying everyday. Putin should stop this war immediately. Give chance to Ukraine to act Russian demands. Russia can attack anytime if Ukraine don't follow/obey those demands.



My prediction: once Russians cross 1 more field army worth of losses, they will be ordered to wrap up the assault formation, and go into 100% defensive, and holding territory at any cost, and extra losses.

But once losses cross another field army worth of bodies, they will start routing.

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## Hydration

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Is this verified?


i do not know but if it is true then imagine the ones who already escaped. we might find the CIA head in ukraine next lol

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## gambit

The mainstream media finally got around to acknowledging what air force types like meself have been saying for weeks -- that the VKS sucks and its suckness *IS THE MAIN CAUSE* of the shittiness of the war.



https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/russian-military-air-force-failure-ukraine/629803/



Now, I understand that 'theatlantic' is a paywall site with limited free article access, so am just going to quote relevant passages from the article written by Phillips O'Brien and Edward Stringer:

Phillips Payson O’Brien is a professor of strategic studies at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland. He is the author of _How the War Was Won: Air-Sea Power and Allied Victory in World War II._ Edward Stringer is a retired Royal Air Force air marshal and a senior fellow at Policy Exchange.​
To start off...

Airpower should have been one of Russia’s greatest advantages over Ukraine. With almost 4,000 combat aircraft and extensive experience bombing targets in Syria, Georgia, and Chechnya, Russia’s air force was expected to play a vital role in the invasion, allowing the Russian army to plunge deep into Ukraine, seize Kyiv, and destroy the Ukrainian military. But more than two months into the war, Vladimir Putin’s air force is still fighting for control of the skies.​​*The Russian air force’s failure is perhaps the most important, but least discussed, story of the military conflict so far.*​
I said this several hundreds pages ago. There is no 'perhaps' about this failure. The VKS was *THE* point of failure. 

In the history of war, there are always points of no return, meaning if a military does not possess this <something> the odds of losing a war trespass greater than 50/50. The horse, the bow and arrow, gunpowder, or the tank, just to name a few. But of all these points of no return, the greatest of them all is the ability to attack from the 3rd dimension. Make no mistake about this, it is not about throwing a spear or using the catapult to lob a rock. These things are sort of 'attacks' from the 3rd dimension, but they are of limited range and flexibility. The weapons of/from the 3rd dimension are the airplane and submarine.

*Airpower is potentially decisive in any war, but difficult to wield effectively.* Air forces are dependent on an array of technologies that require highly trained personnel who can quickly set up what amounts to an airborne military ecosystem: airborne radar stations to provide command and control, fighters to protect and police the skies, refueling aircraft to keep everyone full of gas, electronic-warfare planes to keep enemy defenses suppressed, and a range of intelligence-gatherers and attack aircraft to locate and destroy enemy forces. These sorts of combined operations involve hundreds of aircraft and thousands of people in a tightly choreographed dance that takes a lifetime to master. But *when managed correctly, these overlapping operations allow a military to dominate the skies, making life much easier for the ground or naval forces below.*​​*Unfortunately for the Russians, the recent modernization of the Russian air force, although intended to enable it to conduct modern combined operations, was mostly for show. *The Russians wasted money and effort on corruption and inefficiency. Though much was made of the flashy new equipment, such as the much-hyped SU-34 strike aircraft, the Russian air force continues to suffer from flawed logistics operations and the lack of regular, realistic training. Above all, the autocratic Russian kleptocracy does not trust low-ranking and middle-ranking officers, and so cannot allow the imaginative, flexible decision making that NATO air forces rely upon.​
Having the weapon is 1/2 of the equation. Knowing how to wield it is the other 1/2. Unfortunately, the VKS is the first 1/2 and not the second 1/2. It is now clear the VKS is mostly an airshow air force.

Instead of working to control the skies, Russia’s air force has mostly provided air support to ground troops or bombed Ukrainian cities. In this it has followed the traditional tactics of a continental power that privileges land forces.​​“Russia has never fully appreciated the use of airpower beyond support to ground forces,” David A. Deptula, a retired U.S. Air Force lieutenant general, told us. *“As a result, Russia, in all its wars, has never conceived of or run a strategic air campaign.”*​
It means the VKS is what other Western air forces said in the past, and that I repeated here, that the Russian military view airpower, or at least Russian airpower, as little more than 'airborne artillery'. It means the VKS is independent only in name but not in doctrines. It also means against NATO airpower, the VKS would have been dead on day one, like how the Iraqi Air Force was back in Desert Storm.

Russian aircraft are instead left flying their straightforward missions, many of which use single aircraft without the mutual support from combined air operations that would be expected in an advanced NATO air force. The pilots are given a target; fly in quickly to attack it, in many cases relying on unguided munitions to try to hit their target; and then fly out and try to not get shot down. *They are not allowed to act flexibly within their commanders’ intent to achieve a mission. They have task orders and they execute them, come what may.*​
How many air forces in the world took training from the Soviet Union and later Russia?

The West has much to learn from Ukraine’s successes, Deptula told us. “We have become so dominant in the air that we have never had to think through how we would use airpower if we were the inferior force,” he said. *“Ukraine is posing us some very interesting questions that we should seriously consider, if only to understand how a clever opponent would take us on.”*​
Absolutely Ukraine will teach US and we will learn much from them. But think back to the previous question of how many air forces in the world trained under Soviet/Russia/China airpower doctrines? The Soviet/Russia model is now a proven failure. So what does the China model have to offer when China learned from the Soviet Union?

The bottom line now is that the Western concept of wielding airpower is preeminent with no credible alternatives, and if you want to learn our ways, it will cost you.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Just read the news. Biden is considering another USD 40 billion worth of arms to Ukraine. 

I don't know what many average Americans would be thinking. Nothing allocated to save them the needy. 

Statistics shown only 33 nations are supporting the US and NATO in their campaign against Russia. Meaning 1 in 6 of all the nations in the world. So the world Biden, Antony Blinkens, Lizz Truss, Jake Sullivan are talking is very small. 

This included small states like Luxembourg, North Macedonia, Slovenia, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia.

Many cities in Asia has more people that those states. 

The rest of the world which is 5/6 of thr 195 nations choose neutrality.

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## Ali_Baba

Ukraine – The new face of air warfare?


Above Ukraine rages a battle unlike any in Western experience. We should pay attention to how it is being done.




ukdefencejournal.org.uk





Interesting article on airwar in Ukraine and the use of UCAV's.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523992255769501697

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523993448956805121

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523976305456390145

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523919178851360769

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523972174234767360

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## Apollon

BHAN85 said:


> True, but now it exists China to substitute Western commerce with Russia.
> 
> China in the USSR collapsed was nothing.



So far china does nothing. A weak russia is in best chinese interest



jamahir said:


> @Apollon



Meanwhile Putin looks bloated from pain killers and shaking from Parkinson


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523970279361421312


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## Meengla

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Meaning: Don't come round and expects the rest of us to clean up all the mess you have created in Ukraine due to lack of leadership.
> 
> The leadership and the destiny of EU should be determined by Europeans and not outside esp. the US.
> 
> Many EU nations are beginning to speak out.
> 
> Bulgaria has just joined Hungary and Slovakia and have openly criticized the EU commission.
> It has decide to VETO any sanction against Russian Oil.
> 
> EU under rhe present set up in Brussel is facing a deep division and crisis. It may eventually split up.
> 
> It is happening.



From the twitter comments it does seem many continental Europeans are very angry with their govts over the Ukraine-Russia war. German and French govts initially tried to resist and prevent yet another war on the European continent but they failed; the biggest proponents of this war were the UK and the Americans if you read the news from just a few months ago. Even Zelenskyy didn't believe a war of this scale was likely.



Paul2 said:


> My prediction: once Russians cross 1 more field army worth of losses, they will be ordered to wrap up the assault formation, and go into 100% defensive, and holding territory at any cost, and extra losses.
> 
> But once losses cross another field army worth of bodies, they will start routing.



It would be cruel and even stupid for Russia to try to take the entire southern Ukraine. Consolidation in the east and around Mariupol will itself be a huge task but I think do-able for Russia. They are major gains--even strategic gains--and more than some 'consolation prize' if achieved.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523997220835635202

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## BHAN85

Apollon said:


> So far china does nothing. A weak russia is in best chinese interest
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile Putin looks bloated from pain killers and shaking from Parkinson



Chinese is already doing energy contracts with Russia, to buy Russian natural gas.

And Russian elite can spend the money they earn with China in UAE.

Russia doesn't need the west, it's a little uncomfortable change customers/suppliers for them, but it will be less bad for them than for us.

In USSR collapse time, Dubai and China was nothing.

Russian elite are already going to Dubai to spend their money there.


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## jamahir

Piotr said:


> Russian forces destroy 793 drones, 2,979 armored vehicles in Ukraine operation - top brass​MOSCOW, May 10. /TASS/. Russian forces have eliminated 163 Ukrainian combat aircraft, 124 helicopters, 793 unmanned aerial vehicles and 2,979 tanks and other armored vehicles since the start of their special military operation in Ukraine, Russian Defense Ministry Spokesman Major-General Igor Konashenkov said on Tuesday.
> "Overall, the following targets have been destroyed since the beginning of the special military operation: 163 aircraft, 124 helicopters, 793 unmanned aerial vehicles, 300 surface-to-air missile systems, 2,979 tanks and other combat armored vehicles, 351 multiple launch rocket systems, 1,440 field artillery guns and mortars and 2,789 special military motor vehicles," the spokesman said.
> 
> https://tass.com/russia/1448909



Wonderful ! But obviously @Vergennes @Messerschmitt @F-22Raptor and @Wood won't post this.



Apollon said:


> Meanwhile Putin looks bloated from pain killers and shaking from Parkinson



Irrelevant. He will be cured. And except for CIA-sponsored hippies I think the Russian people are not pelting eggs at him unlike Germans who are having a go at your foreign minister.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523954723107352577

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## Wergeland

https://www.rt.com/russia/555190-regiment-russia-victory-procession/



Russia sacrificed a lot during the WW2. Soldiers and their families gave so much for the world to be free from fascism and nazism. Regardless of present day animosity between the West and Russia, I salute the Russian nation for their bravery and sacrifice during WW2.

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## Vergennes

jamahir said:


> Wonderful ! But obviously @Vergennes @Messerschmitt @F-22Raptor and @Wood won't post this.



Russians are known to throw figures out of their @sses,not even worth the mentionning. Destroying more tanks and drones than Ukraine actually has,LMAO.


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## Corax

Politics aside, and purely from a military perspective, the losses suffered by the Russians are absolutely appalling. It's astonishing to see modern weapons being used by incompetent soldiers and commanders who seem to have few tactical responses to the strategy deployed by the Ukrainians, I've never seen anything like this in the modern age. The Russians don't seem to be bothered at all by throwing away armour, equipment, and men. No doubt the Ukrainians are suffering equal, if not more heavier losses, but the Russians haven't achieved much to show for their losses, while the Ukrainians can at least claim they've checked the key Russian objectives.



Vergennes said:


> Russians are known to throw figures out of their @sses,not even worth the mentionning. Destroying more tanks and drones than Ukraine actually has,LMAO.



That's because the Ukrainians are being resupplied  and I suppose the figures quoted by the Ukrainians are the gospel truth?

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## mulj

Wergeland said:


> https://www.rt.com/russia/555190-regiment-russia-victory-procession/
> 
> 
> 
> Russia sacrificed a lot during the WW2. Soldiers and their families gave so much for the world to be free of fascism and nazism. Regardless if present animosity between the West and Russia, I salute the Russian nation for their bravery and sacrifice during WW2.


It was not russian nation rather all ethnic groups of sssr made that sacrifice.


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## Apollon

BHAN85 said:


> Chinese is already doing energy contracts with Russia, to buy Russian natural gas.
> 
> And Russian elite can spend the money they earn with China in UAE.
> 
> Russia doesn't need the west, it's a little uncomfortable change customers/suppliers for them, but it will be less bad for them than for us.
> 
> In USSR collapse time, Dubai and China was nothing.
> 
> Russian elite are already going to Dubai to spend their money there.



The energy contracts are a joke and so far are 5% of that that Europe got before the war. Its also with a heavy Discount. 


Fun fact average life expectancy in Russia dropped on same as North Korea. Thats how you crush Russia. 🙂👍 


I have news for you. In world history democracy always wins over autocratic regimes. Thats a simple fact.



Wergeland said:


> https://www.rt.com/russia/555190-regiment-russia-victory-procession/
> 
> 
> 
> Russia sacrificed a lot during the WW2. Soldiers and their families gave so much for the world to be free of fascism and nazism. Regardless if present animosity between the West and Russia, I salute the Russian nation for their bravery and sacrifice during WW2.



Russia was facist itself and even worked together with hitler to conquer Poland. It was two facist regimes at war with each other.


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## BHAN85

Apollon said:


> The energy contracts are a joke and so far are 5% of that that Europe got before the war. Its also with a heavy Discount.
> 
> 
> Fun fact average life expectancy in Russia dropped on same as North Korea. Thats how you crush Russia. 🙂👍
> 
> 
> I have news for you. In world history democracy always wins over autocratic regimes. Thats a simple fact.



Yeah, like Chile Allende democracy against Pinochet, oh wait...

Only highly rich countries can afford waste the money in democracies.

Democracy is a constant lie. Richness is a good thing, but democracy is just a expensive luxury for deceive people.


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Wonderful ! But obviously @Vergennes @Messerschmitt @F-22Raptor and @Wood won't post this.
> 
> 
> 
> Irrelevant. He will be cured. And except for CIA-sponsored hippies I think the Russian people are not pelting eggs at him unlike Germans who are having a go at your foreign minister.



Who cares what they destroy? We keep sending more and more. Thats why Russia cant win. It gets dissolved in Ukraine. 


Btw Putin cant be cured. Parkinson and cancer are terminal. 


Btw its not "german citizens" its typical AfD 5th column on kremlin payrole. 5% party who just Yesterday was voted out state parliament.


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## F-22Raptor

Wergeland said:


> https://www.rt.com/russia/555190-regiment-russia-victory-procession/
> 
> 
> 
> Russia sacrificed a lot during the WW2. Soldiers and their families gave so much for the world to be free of fascism and nazism. Regardless if present animosity between the West and Russia, I salute the Russian nation for their bravery and sacrifice during WW2.



Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. The Soviets were just as evil as the Nazis.


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## jamahir

Vergennes said:


> Russians are known to throw figures out of their @sses,not even worth the mentionning. Destroying more tanks and drones than Ukraine actually has,LMAO.



Yeah, as against "highly credible" "news" agencies like Kyiv Independent who posted something like 500+ Russian tanks destroyed in the first five days and of course posted about the great "Ghost of Kiev". 

I will believe more in Russia-oriented sources than NATO / Zelensky ones.



Apollon said:


> Who cares what they destroy? We keep sending more and more. Thats why Russia cant win. It gets dissolved in Ukraine.



NATO, proudly terrorist since 1949.



Apollon said:


> Btw Putin cant be cured. Parkinson and cancer are terminal.



If he doesn't live he will have many admirers as someone who rebuilt Russia after USSR and stood up to NATO whether in Ukraine or in Syria or in Libya or in Venezuela.



Apollon said:


> Btw its not "german citizens" its typical AfD 5th column on kremlin payrole. 5% party who just Yesterday was voted out state parliament.



Even if it is the AfD you don't want to listen to that five percent ? I thought you prided the West on being democratic ?


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524029000707891204

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524030075154411523

Putin is either getting bad information from his commanders or he’s completely lost it upstairs.

His forces are getting obliterated, with minimal gains and he thinks he can carry this to Transnistria? This entire war will go down as one of the worst strategic blunders in military history.

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## Wergeland

mulj said:


> It was not russian nation rather all ethnic groups of sssr made that sacrifice.



Yes. A important detail that should not be left out. Thank you.

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## Daylamite Warrior

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Does not make them Arab.


It actually does. Arabs are semites so they are indegenous to the land. Romans arent. Northern Arabic script have been found from Levant from 800BCE, 300 years before Rome even existed. Like I said, read a book.

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## Elvin

No surprise, a brief history of Russia is summarized in one word- Suffering. Even today most Russians are poor. If someone wants to join Russia then their future can be determined by looking into the past. 

All European countries that were under Russia are still playing catchup to the west. So for some, please go and join Russia. Have fun! 

Russia’s plan envisions donbass, moldova and potentially the western balkans where they will support the serbs and their fanatical fascist ideas of a “greater serbia” at the expense of others. Bosnia is being defended in Ukraine right now.

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## nang2

mulj said:


> It was not russian nation rather all ethnic groups of sssr made that sacrifice.


But it is Russians who kept that memory in their hearts the most. Look how Ukrainians remember their sacrifice by allowing Nazis grow militarily in their homeland, you can tell the difference.

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## Daylamite Warrior

A.P. Richelieu said:


> View attachment 842770
> 
> Basel bringing up Iraq and Libya.
> View attachment 842771
> 
> Someone you might be familiar with bringing up the Crusades…
> 
> 
> The reason for the Crusades was that the rules for pilgrimage to Jerusalem changed.
> That was the final straw.
> 
> 
> View attachment 842772


I never denied I spoke about the Crusades, but it wasnt addressing you. So the mere fact you replied shows you have a knack for derailing, unprovoked. Also rather hypocritical of you to begin a tirade of derailment when you yourself are engaging with off topic discussion with another user. Typical westerner, do as I say not as I do lol.

Regarding your lies about Crusades, pilgrimage rules had not changed in Jerusalem, it was actually first suggested by the Byzantine emperor Alexios I to ally with the Latin church to remove Turks from Anatolia. Like I said, read a book.



Wergeland said:


> Center of Western power is neither Greece or Rome. Classical civilization (Greece and Rome) is not the same Western Civilization.
> 
> I would argue that the west became so succesful because it burst onto the worlde scene at the right place and right time, escpecially considering human evolution timeline (Late middle ages to early modern period).


You made a ridiculous claim that the west never had a civilisation in history, and I gave you two examples. Go and ask your history teacher if Rome and Greece are considered part of western civilisation or not. 

Yes right place right time, but also a lot of connivance, brutality and lots of help from slaves and migrants from non-western backgrounds.

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## Ali_Baba

Ukraine destroys 'Putin parade boat used by Russian leader to inspect naval fleets' with laser-guided bomb off Snake Island​








Ukraine destroys 'Putin parade boat' off Snake Island


A white-coloured Raptor-class patrol vessel was reportedly obliterated by a laser-guided bomb dropped from a Ukraine-operated Bayraktar TB2 drone near Snake Island.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## Daylamite Warrior

Viet said:


> Is it a picnic or what? I see this as war the number of casualties of 100-200 is very low. Extremely low. In the Vietnam/China 1979 war the casualties ran between 1,000 and 3,000 per day. At the battle of Verdun 1916 between Franco and German armies the casualties ran to one million men.


Stop comparing apples and oranges. Youre comparing a hundred year old world war with a modern proxy military operarion. Different equipment, technology, strategy and tactics. China was never considered a military superpower in 1979, they just had numbers. 100-200 is actually very high considering the strategy at play. Either way your 100-200 per day claim was very misleading.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Even Putin's media stooges are forced to admit Russia's invasion has stalled due to 'shameful' lack of equipment and reinforcements - as Biden admits he fears Vladimir 'has no way out'​








Russian state media admits 'shameful' military failings in Ukraine


Vladimir Solovyov, one of Putin's most-prominent propagandists, slammed the Russian military on his nightly news show - bemoaning the 'shameful' length of time it takes to get weapons to the front.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## jamahir

"MARIUPOL ON 5/9/2014 WHEN AZOV NAZI BATTALION FIRST CONQUERED CITY UNDER ITS BRUTAL TERROR REGIME"









Mariupol On 5/9/2014 When Azov Nazi Battalion First Conquered City Under Its Brutal Terror Regime







www.bitchute.com


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## Wergeland

jamahir said:


> Yeah, as against "highly credible" "news" agencies like Kyiv Independent who posted something like 500+ Russian tanks destroyed in the first five days and of course posted about the great "Ghost of Kiev".



Kiev Independent is a one man team. Its editor and publishers name is possibly «John Ross» and have head office somewhere in Washington DC or Langley 😆

Just joking of course.

Regardless, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle between what Russia reported and what Washington has reported of losses.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523954652651339776

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Yeah, as against "highly credible" "news" agencies like Kyiv Independent who posted something like 500+ Russian tanks destroyed in the first five days and of course posted about the great "Ghost of Kiev".
> 
> I will believe more in Russia-oriented sources than NATO / Zelensky ones.
> 
> 
> 
> NATO, proudly terrorist since 1949.
> 
> 
> 
> If he doesn't live he will have many admirers as someone who rebuilt Russia after USSR and stood up to NATO whether in Ukraine or in Syria or in Libya or in Venezuela.
> 
> 
> 
> Even if it is the AfD you don't want to listen to that five percent ? I thought you prided the West on being democratic ?



Rebuild Russia? The country is in shambles. Energy infrastructure build in 50 years now obsolete forever. People face even more poverty than ever before. Young and educated people run away. 


Putin made Russia a chinese colony with no alternative for Russia. It has to sell its products with high Discounts and has to accept whatever is offered. 


Putin created Ukraine. It now has its war for independence and will never be within the russian orbit any longer. Even Putin realized this. 


As for AfD i do listen and laugh about them. Thats the core about democracy. AfD has such marginal numbers that they play no role in politics. 


My guess is, that Putins mind is destroyed by medication.



Daylamite Warrior said:


> It actually does. Arabs are semites so they are indegenous to the land. Romans arent. Northern Arabic script have been found from Levant from 800BCE, 300 years before Rome even existed. Like I said, read a book.



Levante is not arab. Arabs were as much invaders there as Romans.


----------



## Wergeland

Trump always acted tough and threated with sanctions everywhere he went, but implemented very few of them policies.

Biden OTOH masqerade as a humanitarian and tolerant, but in reality is a hardcore hawk. Russians got payback for supporting Trump i guess.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524035941291241473


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## LeGenD

Tipu7 said:


> Do we have any recent source from Russian Officials and Ukrainian Officials each detailing the combat losses sustained by either side?



Russian equipment losses are visually confirmed in following link:









Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine







www.oryxspioenkop.com





Ukrainian equipment losses are visually confirmed in following link:









Attack On Europe: Documenting Ukrainian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine







www.oryxspioenkop.com





There is another source which documents Russian losses on the whole. It is very graphic so I am not posting it here. 

26000 Russian KIA by now.

Russians also provide statistics of Ukrainian losses on the whole but these are not visually or independently confirmed.

You will find useful links in following thread:






Repository of journalistic sources and how to use them with Russia - Ukraine War in focus and Fact-checking considerations


Dear members, Some members complain about the issue of reporting bias (and propaganda) in journalistic contents. These complaints were noticed in the following thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/ This thread is created to address the...



defence.pk





This war is relatively bigger in scale and much more intense than Soviet-Afghan War ever was. Tragic on many levels.


----------



## Vergennes



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## gambit

Corax said:


> Politics aside, and purely from a military perspective, the losses suffered by the Russians are absolutely appalling. It's astonishing to see modern weapons being used by incompetent soldiers and commanders who seem to have few tactical responses to the strategy deployed by the Ukrainians, I've never seen anything like this in the modern age. The Russians don't seem to be bothered at all by throwing away armour, equipment, and men. No doubt the Ukrainians are suffering equal, if not more heavier losses, but the Russians haven't achieved much to show for their losses, while the Ukrainians can at least claim they've checked the key Russian objectives.


Keep this in mind the next time anyone criticize/mock the US military as never fought a peer. Now we find out the Russian military have never been a US peer. Who is our next 'peer' ? Anyone ? Anyone ?

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## Foinikas

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523954652651339776


Now they figured the out? This tactic existed since WWII.

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## sha ah

I completely disagree with your main points. For example the Saudis are trained in the western style and have all American equipment, American training, all modern, state of the art weaponry, best money can buy, yet in Yemen they have failed miserably for 7+ years. Their Abrams even got annihilated so often that they stopped sending them in. 

There are alot of variables involved. For example, motivation, morale, tactics, logistics of opposing forces. Also Russia has a long and deep routed history with Ukraine, are you surprised that they don't want to absolutely pummel the place like what the US did in Iraq killing 1 million civilians ? 

It's different when most of your citizens can't even find a country on a map as opposed to having to be neighbors with a country for the rest of your existence.



gambit said:


> The mainstream media finally got around to acknowledging what air force types like meself have been saying for weeks -- that the VKS sucks and its suckness *IS THE MAIN CAUSE* of the shittiness of the war.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/russian-military-air-force-failure-ukraine/629803/
> 
> 
> 
> Now, I understand that 'theatlantic' is a paywall site with limited free article access, so am just going to quote relevant passages from the article written by Phillips O'Brien and Edward Stringer:
> 
> Phillips Payson O’Brien is a professor of strategic studies at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland. He is the author of _How the War Was Won: Air-Sea Power and Allied Victory in World War II._ Edward Stringer is a retired Royal Air Force air marshal and a senior fellow at Policy Exchange.​
> To start off...
> 
> Airpower should have been one of Russia’s greatest advantages over Ukraine. With almost 4,000 combat aircraft and extensive experience bombing targets in Syria, Georgia, and Chechnya, Russia’s air force was expected to play a vital role in the invasion, allowing the Russian army to plunge deep into Ukraine, seize Kyiv, and destroy the Ukrainian military. But more than two months into the war, Vladimir Putin’s air force is still fighting for control of the skies.​​*The Russian air force’s failure is perhaps the most important, but least discussed, story of the military conflict so far.*​
> I said this several hundreds pages ago. There is no 'perhaps' about this failure. The VKS was *THE* point of failure.
> 
> In the history of war, there are always points of no return, meaning if a military does not possess this <something> the odds of losing a war trespass greater than 50/50. The horse, the bow and arrow, gunpowder, or the tank, just to name a few. But of all these points of no return, the greatest of them all is the ability to attack from the 3rd dimension. Make no mistake about this, it is not about throwing a spear or using the catapult to lob a rock. These things are sort of 'attacks' from the 3rd dimension, but they are of limited range and flexibility. The weapons of/from the 3rd dimension are the airplane and submarine.
> 
> *Airpower is potentially decisive in any war, but difficult to wield effectively.* Air forces are dependent on an array of technologies that require highly trained personnel who can quickly set up what amounts to an airborne military ecosystem: airborne radar stations to provide command and control, fighters to protect and police the skies, refueling aircraft to keep everyone full of gas, electronic-warfare planes to keep enemy defenses suppressed, and a range of intelligence-gatherers and attack aircraft to locate and destroy enemy forces. These sorts of combined operations involve hundreds of aircraft and thousands of people in a tightly choreographed dance that takes a lifetime to master. But *when managed correctly, these overlapping operations allow a military to dominate the skies, making life much easier for the ground or naval forces below.*​​*Unfortunately for the Russians, the recent modernization of the Russian air force, although intended to enable it to conduct modern combined operations, was mostly for show. *The Russians wasted money and effort on corruption and inefficiency. Though much was made of the flashy new equipment, such as the much-hyped SU-34 strike aircraft, the Russian air force continues to suffer from flawed logistics operations and the lack of regular, realistic training. Above all, the autocratic Russian kleptocracy does not trust low-ranking and middle-ranking officers, and so cannot allow the imaginative, flexible decision making that NATO air forces rely upon.​
> Having the weapon is 1/2 of the equation. Knowing how to wield it is the other 1/2. Unfortunately, the VKS is the first 1/2 and not the second 1/2. It is now clear the VKS is mostly an airshow air force.
> 
> Instead of working to control the skies, Russia’s air force has mostly provided air support to ground troops or bombed Ukrainian cities. In this it has followed the traditional tactics of a continental power that privileges land forces.​​“Russia has never fully appreciated the use of airpower beyond support to ground forces,” David A. Deptula, a retired U.S. Air Force lieutenant general, told us. *“As a result, Russia, in all its wars, has never conceived of or run a strategic air campaign.”*​
> It means the VKS is what other Western air forces said in the past, and that I repeated here, that the Russian military view airpower, or at least Russian airpower, as little more than 'airborne artillery'. It means the VKS is independent only in name but not in doctrines. It also means against NATO airpower, the VKS would have been dead on day one, like how the Iraqi Air Force was back in Desert Storm.
> 
> Russian aircraft are instead left flying their straightforward missions, many of which use single aircraft without the mutual support from combined air operations that would be expected in an advanced NATO air force. The pilots are given a target; fly in quickly to attack it, in many cases relying on unguided munitions to try to hit their target; and then fly out and try to not get shot down. *They are not allowed to act flexibly within their commanders’ intent to achieve a mission. They have task orders and they execute them, come what may.*​
> How many air forces in the world took training from the Soviet Union and later Russia?
> 
> The West has much to learn from Ukraine’s successes, Deptula told us. “We have become so dominant in the air that we have never had to think through how we would use airpower if we were the inferior force,” he said. *“Ukraine is posing us some very interesting questions that we should seriously consider, if only to understand how a clever opponent would take us on.”*​
> Absolutely Ukraine will teach US and we will learn much from them. But think back to the previous question of how many air forces in the world trained under Soviet/Russia/China airpower doctrines? The Soviet/Russia model is now a proven failure. So what does the China model have to offer when China learned from the Soviet Union?
> 
> The bottom line now is that the Western concept of wielding airpower is preeminent with no credible alternatives, and if you want to learn our ways, it will cost you.



I don't know, all I see is super high oil prices in the west, inflation and the risk of a recession. Meanwhile the Ruble is now stronger than before sanctions. If sanctions could not break Iran and Iran recovered to pre-sanction levels economically in 3 years, you think these western sanctions are going to break Russia. I highly doubt it. If you sanction an industrious nation, they will only become more self sufficient.



Apollon said:


> Rebuild Russia? The country is in shambles. Energy infrastructure build in 50 years now obsolete forever. People face even more poverty than ever before. Young and educated people run away.
> 
> 
> Putin made Russia a chinese colony with no alternative for Russia. It has to sell its products with high Discounts and has to accept whatever is offered.
> 
> 
> Putin created Ukraine. It now has its war for independence and will never be within the russian orbit any longer. Even Putin realized this.
> 
> 
> As for AfD i do listen and laugh about them. Thats the core about democracy. AfD has such marginal numbers that they play no role in politics.
> 
> 
> My guess is, that Putins mind is destroyed by medication.
> 
> 
> 
> Levante is not arab. Arabs were as much invaders there as Romans.

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## sha ah

But have you looked at the map lately and what's actually happening on the ground ? I mean the Russians have taken more territory in Ukraine than the total land mass of great britain and in the Donbas they have several pincers 20-30 km away from Kramatorsk. I don't think this is going well for Ukraine despite what you hear on the western mainstream media and despite what Zelensky raves about daily.

Like this is literally the president of Ukraine. He danced in f#cking heels man. You know that according to the Pandora papers he's worth 1.3 billion and has a 30 million dollar villa in Florida ?









The Time Ukraine’s President Danced in Heels • Instinct Magazine


Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelensky was iconic before being a leader as a comic turned politician




instinctmagazine.com

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## gambit

sha ah said:


> I completely disagree with your main points. For example the Saudis are trained in the western style and have all American equipment, American training, all modern, state of the art weaponry, best money can buy, yet in Yemen they have failed miserably for 7+ years. Their Abrams even got annihilated so often that they stopped sending them in.
> 
> There are alot of variables involved. For example, motivation, morale, tactics, logistics of opposing forces. Also Russia has a long and deep routed history with Ukraine, are you surprised that they don't want to absolutely pummel the place like what the US did in Iraq killing 1 million civilians ?


Then go ahead and pick a fight with US instead of Saudi Arabia. And find out the hard way the differences.



sha ah said:


> It's different when most of your citizens can't even find a country on a map as opposed to having to be neighbors with a country for the rest of your existence.


When I got orders to deploy to Desert Storm, I barely knew anything about Iraq other than that the country is in the ME. But here is where this criticism of US fails spectacularly: That we do not need to know anything about any country to fight its armed forces.

No one does.

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## Wergeland

gambit said:


> Then go ahead and pick a fight with US instead of Saudi Arabia. And find out the hard way the differences.
> 
> 
> When I got orders to deploy to Desert Storm, I barely knew anything about Iraq other than that the country is in the ME. But here is where this criticism of US fails spectacularly: That we do not need to know anything about any country to fight its armed forces.
> 
> No one does.



Americans have something in common with Iraqis. Both were attacked and subdued by far superior war machine that had no clue about locals. 

By Americans i of course mean Native Americans.

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## Corax

gambit said:


> Keep this in mind the next time anyone criticize/mock the US military as never fought a peer. Now we find out the Russian military have never been a US peer. Who is our next 'peer' ? Anyone ? Anyone ?



The last time you fought a peer was in WWII against Germany and Japan. You lost to the North Vietnamese and Vietcong, and to the Taliban in Afghanistan, as did the USSR in Afghanistan. The USSR at its height was a peer to the US, the Russian armed forces have been in steady decline since the USSR collapsed, they haven't even really developed and fielded much in the way of new weapons or doctrine, training, and capability. If you want to fight a real peer, pick a fight with China. Your hollow "victories" have mostly come against the likes of Iraq, and only then weakened after over a decade of crippling sanctions and no support to Iraq like the Ukrainians are receiving now, or the Vietcong received from Russia, or when the US supported the Taliban and Al-Qaeda against the USSR.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523998340299505665

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## Flight of falcon

sha ah said:


> But have you looked at the map lately and what's actually happening on the ground ? I mean the Russians have taken more territory in Ukraine than the total land mass of great britain and in the Donbas they have several pincers 20-30 km away from Kramatorsk. I don't think this is going well for Ukraine despite what you hear on the western mainstream media and despite what Zelensky raves about daily.
> 
> Like this is literally the president of Ukraine. He danced in f#cking heels man. You know that according to the Pandora papers he's worth 1.3 billion and has a 30 million dollar villa in Florida ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Time Ukraine’s President Danced in Heels • Instinct Magazine
> 
> 
> Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelensky was iconic before being a leader as a comic turned politician
> 
> 
> 
> 
> instinctmagazine.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 842859





How dare you mention how much territory Russians have captured!! They are supposed to be beaten back to Moscow already...

Ukrainians and the Western media is worse than Zalinski dancing in heels. They have lost their marbles and come up with the stories so ridiculous I bet even the person writing it probably cannot believe he is writing so much BS. Anyways 260000 soldiers dead as claimed in the twitter world but yet few hundred bodies shown.......

American aid has never won the war....take for example Vietnam and Afghanistan........Just like Talibans in Afghanistan Russians are moving around and using American supplied anti tank missiles and using them against the Ukrainians ....pretty ironic if you ask me....



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523998340299505665





Means 90% of money will go to American contractors and military industry inside the USA. This is what they needed so badly....another war to make money. The remaining 5 percent will go to the Russians in the form of captured Ukrainian equipment and last five percent in the pockets of Ukrainian Neo Nazi Zalinski.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524010002159181824

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## Viet

Apollon said:


> Rebuild Russia? The country is in shambles. Energy infrastructure build in 50 years now obsolete forever. People face even more poverty than ever before. Young and educated people run away.
> 
> 
> Putin made Russia a chinese colony with no alternative for Russia. It has to sell its products with high Discounts and has to accept whatever is offered.
> 
> 
> Putin created Ukraine. It now has its war for independence and will never be within the russian orbit any longer. Even Putin realized this.
> 
> 
> As for AfD i do listen and laugh about them. Thats the core about democracy. AfD has such marginal numbers that they play no role in politics.
> 
> 
> My guess is, that Putins mind is destroyed by medication.
> 
> 
> 
> Levante is not arab. Arabs were as much invaders there as Romans.


Russia imports from China collapsed by 25 percent in April. Russians population getting poor. Can’t afford Huawei phones. Meanwhile Putin sucks all money he earns from selling oil and gas into his palace.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524029394938966017

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524069778075365383

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## Apollon

This here has almost roadrunner and coyote level. A russian gets a bomb dropped on him as he wants fire a rocket launcher. 


Hopefully he is wounded and not dead. Wounded he takes more rescources from russia. 







@Vergennes @jamahir @F-22Raptor

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## Corax

Do the Russian soldiers ever simply look up?! How can you fail to spot a Quadro copter hovering above you with a few mortar rounds dangling from it?! lol


----------



## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524069778075365383


3 weeks into the Donbas offensive Putin army has only captured a Ukrainian city of 20,000 inhabitants near Kramatosh.
Not a great success, not even good for his own propaganda.
It’s certain Ukraine army will launch offensive to take back the city.
That’s massive: M777 howitzer
GPS guided 155mm artillery






A video shows Ukrainian soldiers using a US M777 howitzer on the eastern front
TWITTER







FUTURE PUBLISHINGGETTY IMAGES

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> This here has almost roadrunner and coyote level. A russian gets a bomb dropped on him as he wants fire a rocket launcher.
> 
> 
> Hopefully he is wounded and not dead. Wounded he takes more rescources from russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Vergennes @jamahir @F-22Raptor



My commiserations with him. In revenge there was a vid on Bit Chute about a Ukrainian soldier in a foxhole with another Ukie and was sniped by Russians.


----------



## WotTen

jamahir said:


> Wonderful ! But obviously @Vergennes @Messerschmitt @F-22Raptor and @Wood won't post this.



I don't trust the numbers from either side. What's amusing and interesting , though, is the failure on both sides during this war in their supposedly strong suit.

The Russians have disappointed in the military domain. The image of Russia as a military superpower now exists only because of 6000+ nuclear weapons and advanced missiles.

The West has disappointed in the media domain. The Western propaganda has been so amateurish, it's almost comparable to North Korean or Soviet era garbage. Few people outside the heavily censored Western countries buy their propaganda. I guess when you rely on censorship to silence the other side, one becomes lazy and slacks off with obviously staged videos.

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## WotTen

Daylamite Warrior said:


> Go and ask your history teacher if Rome and Greece are considered part of western civilisation or not.



Ancient Greece is considered the *FOUNDATION* of modern Western civilization. It is astounding that someone, especially a Westerner, would deny this.

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## Apollon

WotTen said:


> Ancient Greece is considered the *FOUNDATION* of modern Western civilization. It is astounding that someone, especially a Westerner, would deny this.



Greece build the west, rome brought it to glory,

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## Corax

The US finally admits its reached a stalemate, as expected, and the Ukrainians can't win this.

In a rare public hearing, US official says neither side are winning



> In the US, two of the nation’s senior intelligence officials, National Intelligence Director Avril Haines and Defense Intelligence Agency Director Scott Berrier, have painted a sobering picture of the war in Ukraine.
> 
> The two officials spoke before the Senate armed services committee about global threats to the US on Tuesday, and they highlighted their concerns about Russia.
> 
> “We assess President Putin is preparing for a prolonged conflict in Ukraine,” said Haines. “He is probably counting on US and EU resolve to weaken as food shortages, inflation and energy prices get worse.”
> 
> Berrier explained that the two enemies, the Russians and the Ukrainians, had reached an impasse.
> 
> Said Berrier: “The Russians aren’t winning, and the Ukrainians aren’t winning, and we’re at a bit of a stalemate.”
> 
> Their presentations were significant because of the situation they described in Ukraine and also because parts of the hearing were open to the public. Intelligence officials have argued in the past that these hearings should be held behind closed doors.
> 
> But their presentation provides one of the only chances for the public to hear directly from them about security issues.
> 
> Their assessment of the war is particularly important as people in the US evaluate the ongoing conflict, the role of the US and the impact of the war on gas prices and other aspects of everyday life.

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## Paul2

sha ah said:


> But have you looked at the map lately and what's actually happening on the ground ? I mean the Russians have taken more territory in Ukraine than the total land mass of great britain and in the Donbas they have several pincers 20-30 km away from Kramatorsk. I don't think this is going well for Ukraine despite what you hear on the western mainstream media and despite what Zelensky raves about daily.
> 
> Like this is literally the president of Ukraine. He danced in f#cking heels man. You know that according to the Pandora papers he's worth 1.3 billion and has a 30 million dollar villa in Florida ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Time Ukraine’s President Danced in Heels • Instinct Magazine
> 
> 
> Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelensky was iconic before being a leader as a comic turned politician
> 
> 
> 
> 
> instinctmagazine.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 842859



The more the merrier. Putin will go down in history as the only emperor to lose his empire to a man making pelvis thrusts in spandex.

I will then grab our outer northeast back.


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## nang2

Paul2 said:


> The more the merrier. Putin will go down in history as the only emperor to lose his empire to a man making pelvis thrusts in spandex.


And Ukraine is helping along by sanctioning Europe. It is just too hilarious not to share. 



https://www.rt.com/russia/555265-gazprom-gas-ukraine-europe/

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## Hamartia Antidote

jamahir said:


> My commiserations with him. In revenge there was a vid on Bit Chute about a Ukrainian soldier in a foxhole with another Ukie and was sniped by Russians.



As I have said before future battlefields will make it too dangerous to stand outside in the open as thousands of autonomous drones will be lurking in the sky looking for targets. If they don't get you with a suicide dive they'll swarm circle-strafe you with loud very fast and very small hard-to-hit drones leaving you confused as to which direction to shoot as some bigger drone like the above sneaks up and kills you.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524101694732255232


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Daylamite Warrior said:


> It actually does. Arabs are semites so they are indegenous to the land. Romans arent. Northern Arabic script have been found from Levant from 800BCE, 300 years before Rome even existed. Like I said, read a book.


I can buy an American book in Saudi Arabia, but that does not mean that Mekka is an American city.
My books tells me that.
When Arabs are vassals of Babylonians, Persians or Turks, they are not living on Arab territory.


Daylamite Warrior said:


> I never denied I spoke about the Crusades, but it wasnt addressing you. So the mere fact you replied shows you have a knack for derailing, unprovoked. Also rather hypocritical of you to begin a tirade of derailment when you yourself are engaging with off topic discussion with another user. Typical westerner, do as I say not as I do lol.
> 
> Regarding your lies about Crusades, pilgrimage rules had not changed in Jerusalem, it was actually first suggested by the Byzantine emperor Alexios I to ally with the Latin church to remove Turks from Anatolia. Like I said, read a book.
> 
> 
> You made a ridiculous claim that the west never had a civilisation in history, and I gave you two examples. Go and ask your history teacher if Rome and Greece are considered part of western civilisation or not.
> 
> Yes right place right time, but also a lot of connivance, brutality and lots of help from slaves and migrants from non-western backgrounds.







You simply want to be able to criticize the West unopposed.
Don’t engage in Whataboutism, if you do not want replies.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524113813024690176


----------



## Daylamite Warrior

WotTen said:


> Ancient Greece is considered the *FOUNDATION* of modern Western civilization. It is astounding that someone, especially a Westerner, would deny this.


I know right! These westerners would sell their own mothers just to win an argument, regardless of how desperate they would come across. No skin off our noses, though, right? Lol


----------



## Daylamite Warrior

A.P. Richelieu said:


> I can buy an American book in Saudi Arabia, but that does not mean that Mekka is an American city.
> My books tells me that.
> When Arabs are vassals of Babylonians, Persians or Turks, they are not living on Arab territory.



Arabs are indegenous to the land, they dont need an empire to prove that. Just genetics, archeology and history. Please spare me the false analogies.


A.P. Richelieu said:


> View attachment 842925
> 
> You simply want to be able to criticize the West unopposed.
> Don’t engage in Whataboutism, if you do not want replies.


So the Egyptians, who were Muslims, clearly didnt have any issues with Christian pilgrims. So I would put it to you that this was more of a Turkish problem than a Muslim one. Regardless, when youre in a state of war dont expect favourable treatment from your adversary. Look how the west demonises all Russians, atheletes and civilians, just because of a war they had no say in. I still dont see how that justifies genocide, slavery, massacres, and hostile expansionism though....



Wergeland said:


> Center of Western power is neither Greece or Rome. Classical civilization (Greece and Rome) is not the same Western Civilization.
> 
> I would argue that the west became so succesful because it burst onto the worlde scene at the right place and right time, escpecially considering human evolution timeline (Late middle ages to early modern period).



@Apollon

i know you like to butt into conversations, so here's some context as to why were having this discussion. Seems like your fellow westerners have forgotten what the thieving Greeks did for them.

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## The SC

Wergeland said:


> https://www.rt.com/russia/555190-regiment-russia-victory-procession/
> 
> 
> 
> Russia sacrificed a lot during the WW2. Soldiers and their families gave so much for the world to be free from fascism and nazism. Regardless of present day animosity between the West and Russia, I salute the Russian nation for their bravery and sacrifice during WW2.


They have lost 30 million lives in WW2.. to do just that!


----------



## Wergeland

Daylamite Warrior said:


> i know you like to butt into conversations, so here's some context as to why were having this discussion. Seems like your fellow westerners have forgotten what the thieving Greeks did for them



The west developed from the ruins of Rome. Rome borrowed their culture from Etruscans and Greeks, and also Phoeneicians and Egyptians.

In other words..Same same but different.

West in its core is a Germanic civilization. By that i mean ethno-culturally germanic. Mark the difference between german and germanic. French and English is germanic but not german. Irish are mostly celts i believe and neither germanic or german.

Tribes from the periphery of Roman Empire attacked and migrated into a declining Roman Europe. They adopted Roman costumes and culture, but to a large degree also retained their own ancestral tribal culture.

Thus Western civilization is NOT the same as Greco-Roman civilization, although the West is proud of its Classical heritage.

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## mhosein

Ukraine's assault on Snake Island led to Ukrainian military losses ... _30 TB2 Drones shot down, 10 helicopters as well as 4 fighter jets of the Ukrainian Air Force shot down, 50+ Ukrainian Army troops killed in combat and 3 Ukrainian Navy ships sunk_. The attacks on Snake Island were ordered by Ukraine's retarded President Zelensky, who was urged on by the British Advisers, who convinced the President that Ukraine will gain a decisive victory.

A word of advice to all those confounded idiots around the world, who sing praises about the West's invincibility. Do not take advice or trust the British, they are one of the oldest, most sadistic and devious of all the Western countries.

Oh and all those who were jumping around like a bunch of primates about how TB2 drones stunned the world in the Armenian-Azerbaijan conflict. Ukraine and Britain have managed to destroy TB2 drone's invincible reputation, in a matter of days.

I said it before and I will say it again, Russia will rise to a position of dominance economically, militarily, politically and technologically over its opponents, and there is not a DAMN thing the West can do to stop it.

It is the end of days for the West, whether you like it or you don't, whether you're comfortable with it or you're not, this is the new reality and will remain so for a long time to come, insha-Allah!

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523979659544834057


----------



## Wergeland

mhosein said:


> days.
> 
> I said it before and I will say it again, Russia will rise to a position of dominance economically, militarily, politically and technologically over its opponents, and there is not a DAMN thing the West can do to stop it.



What makes you so sure about that?

For that to happen Russia actually have to reorient itself towards the global south. Which i really cannot see happen, not in the way its developing. Russians want to be european but seemingly are shunned by rest of Europe. Tragic.



mhosein said:


> It is the end of days for the West, whether you like it or you don't, whether you're comfortable with it or you're not, this is the new reality and will remain so for a long time to come, insha-Allah



West still have some good 200 years on top i believe. It wont go around and conqour foreign territories anymore but will continue to be THE high-civilization for many more decades to come. Simple inertia. Who knows, maybe there will be someone like Caesar or Aurelius who will put thing back on order now and then😉

In many ways the western governance is more Islamic than most muslim governments.

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## letsrock

Apollon said:


> Greece build the west, rome brought it to glory,



This talk is cheap - you need to prove your loyalty to west by fighting even more against russians, acting super racist to others etc.


----------



## WotTen

Daylamite Warrior said:


> I know right! These westerners would sell their own mothers just to win an argument, regardless of how desperate they would come across. No skin off our noses, though, right? Lol



Well, I don't want to generalize against 'westerners' as a group. There are good and bad people in every group. We can't hold ordinary westerners responsible for bad actions by their government, any more than we can hold an ordinary Muslim responsible for bad actions by extremist groups.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524054099762851846

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524146272432705538

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524143688678625289

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524120751225589760

Reactions: Love Love:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524122351113486336


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524105772438900738

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524105511062446084

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## mhosein

Wergeland said:


> What makes you so sure about that?
> 
> For that to happen Russia actually have to reorient itself towards the global south. Which i really cannot see happen, not in the way its developing. Russians want to be european but seemingly are shunned by rest of Europe. Tragic.
> 
> West still have some good 200 years on top i believe. It wont go around and conqour foreign territories anymore but will continue to be THE high-civilization for many more decades to come. Simple inertia. Who knows, maybe there will be someone like Caesar or Aurelius who will put thing back on order now and then😉
> 
> In many ways the western governance is more Islamic than most muslim governments.



The problem with people is that they do not understand Russia, its history, its people, its scars. And the West, a prisoner of its own nature, has failed and will always fail in understanding Russia. Which is why there will not be a rapproachment between Russia and Europe. The latter is hostage to the anglophiles and the anglos know that if Russia and Europe become allies, its game over for them. 

Russia is not America, that pivots to the East and hops to the West, ends up in a ditch. Russia isn't orienting in any specific direction. It seeks partner nations for mutually beneficial relations, where there is a multipolar world that respects one another's sovereignty.

As for the "West" the term civilized does not conform to their mindset. The West only "_acts_" civilized when its belly is full, its bank account stacked, its dominance unchallenged and its lifestyle accepted by others. In 200 years, the West's greatest achievement has been that a man can marry another man and gain a marriage certificate. The West had it all and has flushed it down the toilet. That's because hubris, which is the "EXCEPTIONALISM" that defines the West, is its Cancer.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524095609388552193

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## mulj

nang2 said:


> But it is Russians who kept that memory in their hearts the most. Look how Ukrainians remember their sacrifice by allowing Nazis grow militarily in their homeland, you can tell the difference.


Remebrance is cheap, blood is expenisve.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524094785518243840


----------



## Wergeland

mhosein said:


> The problem with people is that they do not understand Russia, its history, its people, its scars



I believe western Europe understands them very well. We are all human after all. Realpolitik OTOH ca be a nasty business.


mhosein said:


> And the West, a prisoner of its own nature, has failed and will always fail in understanding Russia.


Its easy to understand Russia. It has no natural border west of Urals and the great European plain runs all the way to the Atlantic French coast.



mhosein said:


> The latter is hostage to the anglophiles and the anglos know that if Russia and Europe become allies, its game over for them.



Agree



mhosein said:


> Russia is not America, that pivots to the East and hops to the West, ends up in a ditch. Russia isn't orienting in any specific direction. It seeks partner nations for mutually beneficial relations, where there is a multipolar world that respects one another's sovereignty.



Kinda true. America sometimes gains from turbulence in The World Island, especially Eurasia. But Russia can only gain from stability in the same geographic sphere.



mhosein said:


> As for the "West" the term civilized does not conform to their mindset. The West only "_acts_" civilized when its belly is full, its bank account stacked, its dominance unchallenged and its lifestyle accepted by others.



Again…Realpolitik. Has always been like this and will always be like this… as long as greed and distrust exist in humans. Sad but true.
By civilization i mean governance and «state building» high culture.



mhosein said:


> In 200 years, the West's greatest achievement has been that a man can marry another man and gain a marriage certificate. The West had it all and has flushed it down the toilet. That's because hubris, which is the "EXCEPTIONALISM" that defines the West, is its Cancer.



Come on man. Industrial revolution, governance, cities, technology, those german cars!!!, aircrafts…. science, landing a spacecraft on a Saturnian moon.

I agree with you that the west has become arrogant. Thats why i believe we are becoming less efficient than lets say..the chinese system.

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## The SC

Director of National Intelligence Avril Haynes: Putin has been using the Wagner Group effectively in Ukraine lately.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524035521000796160
Director of National Intelligence: We believe that Putin will not be satisfied with victories in eastern Ukraine.

Director of the US Defense Intelligence Agency: Russia views Washington and NATO as the primary threats to its national security and geopolitical ambitions, and Moscow has sought to develop a modern army capable of confronting perceived threats and achieving its goals in this new era of competition between great powers.

@ZaidBenjamin5

Director of National Intelligence: The next few months will witness an unexpected escalation of the war in Ukraine

Some here need to read this many times over..


----------



## lightning F57

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The United States presented three Casus Belli and one is enough.
> Hypocrites ignore the two I mentioned.


Using your logic most of the world could do the same with the US and say its enough justification to declare war. Alleged assassination of Bush happened in 1993 9 years before the illegal invasion in 2002 so that reason does not stand. Your second reason of Saddam targeting Coalition aircraft, the Iraqis would say they were defending their airspace from violations. So your reasons are those of typical war mongers who have no issue justifying aggression when it suits them. But when a country they don't like does the same they cry wolf. That is the real hypocrisy.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524035843383611392


Moscow: We will respond if Finland joins NATO

Deputy Foreign Minister Grushko said that Moscow would not remain indifferent if Finland joined NATO

Our military will consider all necessary measures that will be required to ensure the legitimate interests of defense."

"This will not enhance the security of Finland itself or NATO itself," the deputy minister said.

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## The SC

Director of US Intelligence: Russia's victory in Donbas does not mean the end of the war

@AlArabiya_Brk

The first recognition by NATO of Russia's victory in the Donbass!?



Director of National Intelligence: Putin has no intention of stopping in Donbass

Director of National Intelligence: Russia may try to block Western military aid to Ukraine in retaliation for the sanctions, which is a potential flashpoint.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Wergeland said:


> https://www.rt.com/russia/555190-regiment-russia-victory-procession/
> 
> 
> 
> Russia sacrificed a lot during the WW2. Soldiers and their families gave so much for the world to be free from fascism and nazism. Regardless of present day animosity between the West and Russia, I salute the Russian nation for their bravery and sacrifice during WW2.


All in all 27 million people including both Russian civilians and soldiers died in a war against the Nazi Germany.

And Russia on behalf of Soviet Union repaid all its debts to the USA under the Lend Lease Act 1941 for the weaponries supplied during WW2 back in 2006.

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## Wergeland

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524035843383611392
> 
> 
> Moscow: We will respond if Finland joins NATO
> 
> Deputy Foreign Minister Grushko said that Moscow would not remain indifferent if Finland joined NATO
> 
> Our military will consider all necessary measures that will be required to ensure the legitimate interests of defense."
> 
> "This will not enhance the security of Finland itself or NATO itself," the deputy minister said.



Dont understand what Finland is trying to achieve here. It has been peaceful and has not been attacked by neither Soviet or Russia ever since mutual understanding which came in effect after the WW2. During all those cold war days Soviet never attacked Finland.

But now Finland wants to be a part of NATO and risk becoming hot contested territory.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Russia has continue to repay its debt to the US even after the collapse of the Soviet Union back in 1991.


----------



## Wergeland

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> And Russia on behalf of Soviet Union repaid all its debts to the USA under the Lend Lease Act 1941 back in 2006



America paid Russia back for keeping its word… by stealing 300 billion $ Russian money

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## CAPRICORN-88

So how is Ukraine to repay all those weapons supplied by the US today under the Lend Lease Act? 

Both Russia and France took 80 years. 

IMO this is the real DEBT TRAP?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523975057315446784


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

And Biden has just give Zalensky a pat on his head by suspending tariff on Ukrainian Steel for one year. Big deal?


----------



## 925boy

Wergeland said:


> Dont understand what Finland is trying to achieve here. It has been peaceful and has not been attacked by neither Soviet or Russia ever since mutual understanding which came in effect after the WW2. During all those cold war days Soviet never attacked Finland.
> 
> But now Finland wants to be a part of NATO and risk becoming hot contested territory.


agreed, ANNNND, Finland is joining NATO at NATO's weakest, which means the value that Finland can get from NATO membership today is considerably less than what NATO members have been getting from NATo up until now, its like military alliance inflation- NATO has been losing value over time actually, losing wars, causing chaos, worsening global reputation, overstretched, unmotivated, disorganized, demoralized...it just looks tough on the outside.

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## The SC

Spoiler: Graphic



https://twitter.com/coope125/status/1523976594875895809

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## Wergeland

925boy said:


> agreed, ANNNND, Finland is joining NATO at NATO's weakest, which means the value that Finland can get from NATO membership today is considerably less than what NATO members have been getting from NATo up until now, its like military alliance inflation- NATO has been losing value over time actually, losing wars, causing chaos, worsening global reputation, overstretched, unmotivated, disorganized, demoralized...it just looks tough on the outside.



Correct.
Good points. Neither Finland or Sweden joined NATO immidiately after WW2 when US power was arguably at its zenith.

US hard power has been on steady decline since the Korean War. Same applies also to the US economy.

NATO was created as a Transatlantic defence block. It worked flawlessly for that special purpose. After integration of former soviet block nations it became more expansionist oriented, thus move away from its core philosophy IMO.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523921160207056897

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523912303464300549

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## The SC

Minister of State for European Affairs of the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs Clement Bonn: Ukraine's promise of speedy entry into the European Union would be a lie


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523933118046121985
Ukraine's Foreign Minister: If we do not join the European Union, we will consider it manipulation
@AlArabiya_Brk

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## The SC

A Ukrainian Su-25 attack aircraft was shot down in the Kharkiv region in an air battle.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523937341685080064

Bloomberg reported that Chinese companies bought $8.9 billion worth of goods from Russia in April, an increase of nearly 57%.

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## Wergeland

The SC said:


> Bloomberg reported that Chinese companies bought $8.9 billion worth of goods from Russia in April, an increase of nearly 57%.



Is there any sense to the policies of Biden Administration? 

Forcing inflation in Europe and possibly a receession in both US and Europe.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524144286056554507

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524027530499571717


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524203447452585984


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524077524384419840


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524203448950005760

Reactions: Like Like:
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## PakFactor

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524144286056554507



“But you swallowed before”. LOL, that was cold.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524125871782563842

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524116554690043907


----------



## F-22Raptor

It’s over for Russian forces near Kharkiv


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524206492299190272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524069548705595393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524075463731302400


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524229949053456384


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524083077152219136


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## The SC




----------



## Sineva

A rather bizarre one here:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524113558715383810Tho it does raise the rather obvious question as to why a civilian police department would have, or even need,equipment that is fit for war service,never mind that it has so much of it [3000 pieces!?]

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524117389259984896


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Daylamite Warrior said:


> Arabs are indegenous to the land, they dont need an empire to prove that. Just genetics, archeology and history. Please spare me the false analogies.
> 
> So the Egyptians, who were Muslims, clearly didnt have any issues with Christian pilgrims. So I would put it to you that this was more of a Turkish problem than a Muslim one. Regardless, when youre in a state of war dont expect favourable treatment from your adversary. Look how the west demonises all Russians, atheletes and civilians, just because of a war they had no say in. I still dont see how that justifies genocide, slavery, massacres, and hostile expansionism though....



Turks are Muslims and when they captured Jerusalem they immediately started to repress Christians.
That justified the Crusades.

The West does not demonize Russian athletes, it simply does not allow Russia to be represented on the world stages.

You are talking about justification as the West is the only party to blame and ignore the development of the human rights concept during the 20th century, mostly driven by people in the West.

Do you justify the million European slaves that Muslims captured and sold over the centuries?
Muslim pirates went as far north as Iceland.
Does you justify Muslim armies in France and Austria,
Does you justify the Muslim massacres of POWs after the Battle of Hattin?
The fact is that Muslims have a historical record which is not much different from that of the West.


----------



## Viet

Sineva said:


> A rather bizarre one here:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524113558715383810Tho it does raise the rather obvious question as to why a civilian police department would have, or even need,equipment that is fit for war service,never mind that it has so much of it [3000 pieces!?]


Illinois has Chicago. fatal shooting happens almost every night. Police has military gears.


----------



## Sineva

Viet said:


> Illinois has Chicago. fatal shooting happens almost every night. Police has military gears.


Chicago must be a literal fvcking war zone then.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512033177891590146

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## CAPRICORN-88

Viet said:


> It’s symbolic but better than nothing. EU, Canada, Japan and allies do similar move with tariff suspension. The aim is to lift Ukraine fighting spirit. Yes big deal.


Go home and stop trolling.


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> @jhungary a month has passed. Can we have an update from you?


I just got off a plane and back to Sydney yesterday, having spend the last 6 or so weeks in Lviv first then to Kyiv training their Territorial Defence. 

Well, I will write a more detail account of what I think and what I literally saw on site in Zaporizhzhia and Kharkiv, but just too tired to update now. 

A quick word, Russia is into a tough fight, and from where I have seen, at this stage, the war looks like Post 1951 Korean War, there are going to be back and forth between the frontline in the East with Ukraine losing territories and Russian took some then got beaten back, there are going to be numerous real estate change before coming winter set in. 

Otherwise I am going to write a piece tomorrow when I have more time and rest.

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## CAPRICORN-88

First Bong Bong Marcos convincing victory as the President in Philippines election and now Ms Sara Duterte overwhelming victory as the V-P is sure complicating the US geopolitical strategy in the region.

This means we will at least another five year of period of peace and stability in Philippines and in the region. 

The US has spend so much trying to topple former President Duterte and disrupts his selection including buying off his V-P. We are pretty sure she will be investigated in the time.

This unlike in Ukraine where they successful staged the Maiden Revolt that toppled a duly elected President Yanukovich in 2014.

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## gambit

Corax said:


> The last time you fought a peer was in WWII against Germany and Japan. You lost to the North Vietnamese and Vietcong, and to the Taliban in Afghanistan, as did the USSR in Afghanistan. The USSR at its height was a peer to the US, the Russian armed forces have been in steady decline since the USSR collapsed, they haven't even really developed and fielded much in the way of new weapons or doctrine, training, and capability. If you want to fight a real peer, pick a fight with China. Your hollow "victories" have mostly come against the likes of Iraq, and only then weakened after over a decade of crippling sanctions and no support to Iraq like the Ukrainians are receiving now, or the Vietcong received from Russia, or when the US supported the Taliban and Al-Qaeda against the USSR.


So the US have a string of 'losses' against smaller countries, like how Russia is sort of 'losing' against Ukraine now. Is that how you see the US military?


----------



## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512033177891590146


Old news
China pays in yuan because using USD is forbidden.
Chinese don’t use rubbe because Russia central bank is under sanction.


----------



## Clutch

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Turks are Muslims and when they captured Jerusalem they immediately started to repress Christians.
> That justified the Crusades.
> 
> The West does not demonize Russian athletes, it simply does not allow Russia to be represented on the world stages.
> 
> You are talking about justification as the West is the only party to blame and ignore the development of the human rights concept during the 20th century, mostly driven by people in the West.
> 
> Do you justify the million European slaves that Muslims captured and sold over the centuries?
> Muslim pirates went as far north as Iceland.
> Does you justify Muslim armies in France and Austria,
> Does you justify the Muslim massacres of POWs after the Battle of Hattin?
> The fact is that Muslims have a historical record which is not much different from that of the West.



Stick to the topic and don't derail by trolling... This thread is about White Christmas butchering other White Christians.... So sit back and watch the fireworks.... No need to involve others....

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## jamahir

WotTen said:


> I don't trust the numbers from either side. What's amusing and interesting , though, is the failure on both sides during this war in their supposedly strong suit.
> 
> The Russians have disappointed in the military domain. The image of Russia as a military superpower now exists only because of 6000+ nuclear weapons and advanced missiles.
> 
> The West has disappointed in the media domain. The Western propaganda has been so amateurish, it's almost comparable to North Korean or Soviet era garbage. Few people outside the heavily censored Western countries buy their propaganda. I guess when you rely on censorship to silence the other side, one becomes lazy and slacks off with obviously staged videos.



I agree that the Russians have disappointed and even though I am not much conversant with military technology the Russians should still have mass produced active protection system for their tanks and APCs. I am sure there are other lacking fields in their operation. But I think despite having those lackings they have performed okay but my commiserations for their deceased and injured.

You are also correct about Western false propaganda but I don't think North Korean / USSR propaganda / information is garbage. When I was young my father gave me his purchased magazine called Sputnik which had been published by the USSR. High quality ones.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

lightning F57 said:


> Using your logic most of the world could do the same with the US and say its enough justification to declare war. Alleged assassination of Bush happened in 1993 9 years before the illegal invasion in 2002 so that reason does not stand. Your second reason of Saddam targeting Coalition aircraft, the Iraqis would say they were defending their airspace from violations. So your reasons are those of typical war mongers who have no issue justifying aggression when it suits them. But when a country they don't like does the same they cry wolf. That is the real hypocrisy.


The no-fly zones were established to protect minorities from Saddams genocidal attacks on Shias and Kurds.
Gulf War II is legally the same war as Gulf War I since there was no peace agreement, only a ceasefire in a war started by Iraq. A ceasefire holds as long as both sides are happy with the arrangement.

The invasion of Iraq resulted in the trial and hanging of the illegal coupmaker. 
Iraq is now a sovereign country that elects its leaders.

Russia is invading Iraq to destroy the nation and annex its territory.

it aint the same thing.


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## Avicenna

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The no-fly zones were established to protect minorities from Saddams genocidal attacks on Shias and Kurds.
> Gulf War II is legally the same war as Gulf War I since there was no peace agreement, only a ceasefire in a war started by Iraq. A ceasefire holds as long as both sides are happy with the arrangement.
> 
> The invasion of Iraq resulted in the trial and hanging of the illegal coupmaker.
> Iraq is now a sovereign country that elects its leaders.
> 
> Russia is invading Iraq to destroy the nation and annex its territory.
> 
> it aint the same thing.



At a loss for words after reading that drivel.

Wow.

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## jhungary

Gomig-21 said:


> @jhungary , have you ever seen so many turrets fly off their vehicles so easily and frequently when they're hit, as in this war?
> 
> Something is really flimsy in the turret-spinning design & build the Russians are using when they assemble these things. Never before, when you look at the history of tanks battles -- and there have been many to go by -- including our Arab/Israeli wars where there were hundreds of tanks duking it out in not only wide open desert terrain, but in very close proximity as well. Granted in 1973 and earlier, ATGMs were only being introduced into the battlefield like our use of the SAGGER wire guided ATGM probably didn't have the explosive level that today's ATGMs and MANPADs have, but the devastating result to enemy tanks from these new weapons were very obvious that they were about to change tank warfare as it was known, and it did.
> 
> Now we're seeing MANPADs take the lead in making tanks almost obsolete on the battlefield, especially in these heavily dense rural areas where there's an abundance of spots for soldiers of all types to hide and ambush enemy tanks.
> 
> No longer is infantry that useful to accompany armored vehicles like it used to be. As a matter of fact, that only adds them to the tanks depletion and becomes a useful collateral damage for the personnel firing the MANPADs.
> 
> Still, the frequency of Russian turrets flying off and traveling great distances when hit in this war is staggering.
> 
> I nearly fell out of my chair when I saw this today lol.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513258535206862854



I have to confess, I have not seen many of tank got destroyed in my war, tank weren't use the way they do in previous war, but I did saw quite a lot of Russian tank got destroyed and have their turret blown off during my time in Ukraine (I just spend about 6 weeks there) and from archival image on the First Gulf War.

The issue with Russian tank is Munition Cook-Off.

Here are some example on how M1A1 tanks that got destroyed








See the different?

If a tank was hit, it's no big deal until you come to a problem with pressure, a high energy round (from ATGM) would create a large amount of pressure when it detonate, and while most tank can deal with that pressure, it's another case if the ammo being cooked off.

While there are still chance a western tank with a western tank crew could see a Leo 2 or Abrams with turret blown off, but the this is not in the scale of Russian tank. That is due to the 2 factors, the hull design difference and crew training,

Western Tank as well as Russian tank both NBC protected, however, the way they protect the crew from NBC attack is very different. Western Tank uses Positive Pressure Hull, while Russian tank simply seal the tank. Positive Pressure hull means the cabin is kept in higher pressure than outside, so when air is going outward from inside the tank to outside thru porthole or the turret, thus keeping the tank safe from NBC environment, but it also have a secondary effect, it help release pressure build up inside the hull. On the other hand, Russian tank done this by fully sealing the tank. Nothing going in and nothing going out when the tank have its hatch close.

The closest people can compare without ever being in a tank is Western and Russian Gasmask, the same principal. If you have wear a M40 or S10 Gasmask, you would know there is a valve where you exhale, the mask is sealed but when you blow out (exhale) from the valve, you open the valve and let the gas out, thus creating a Positive Pressure setting within that mask, however, if you wear a GP-5 or GP-7, you would found it a lot more stuffy and you will sweat a lot, because the mask is sealed entirely to your head, only the filter is doing the gas exchange, pressure is not relieved.

So when a tank was hit, if there is a round inside, that ammo will cook, that explosion will create a blast pressure, In Western Tank, when a round exploded in the chamber, the pressure build up is released thru the porthole or the gun itself, thus relieving the pressure, however, in a Russian tank, that pressure have no where to go. Once that round (or powder, if they were using Autoloader) cooked off, that sealed in and Pressure keep rising and detonate other rounds (Either Heat or Pressure can detonate the round), that sum of all pressure have no where to go but up, which is why you see them "Blown a Hatch"

This can be prevent with Crew Training, first by not putting rounds on the floor and store it in proper manner, to leave the tank open, there are 4 hatches in a tank, the Gunner, The Commander, The Driver and escape hatch, you train to at least leave one open in combat to deal with concussion blast. But seems like those Russian crew weren't exactly trained for the task (You can literally see it from how the manoeuvre) that contribute to how or why you see a lot of those Russian tank losing their Turret.

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## nufix

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The no-fly zones were established to protect minorities from Saddams genocidal attacks on Shias and Kurds.
> Gulf War II is legally the same war as Gulf War I since there was no peace agreement, only a ceasefire in a war started by Iraq. A ceasefire holds as long as both sides are happy with the arrangement.
> 
> The invasion of Iraq resulted in the trial and hanging of the illegal coupmaker.
> Iraq is now a sovereign country that elects its leaders.
> 
> Russia is invading Iraq to destroy the nation and annex its territory.
> 
> it aint the same thing.



Sovereign in name only. De Facto Iraq was occupied by the coalition force at least until 2011, a whole seven to eight years and over one million Iraqi deaths! And you just skipped the whole 4 years of ISIS rule in the country as a direct result of the de-establishment of Iraq as a functional country and government in the decade before.

So using your argument, if Russia ended up seizing current Ukrainian leaders, hang them, and then "transfer the power back" to the Ukrainians, then all will be well? 

Terms can be twisted to suit one's narrative, but they are essentially the same.


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## Bengal71

Wergeland said:


> Trump always acted tough and threated with sanctions everywhere he went, but implemented very few of them policies.
> 
> Biden OTOH masqerade as a humanitarian and tolerant, but in reality is a hardcore hawk. Russians got payback for supporting Trump i guess.



I totally agree with this. Trump also seeems to be a very war averse president.

I actually like Trump except for his action of banning visa for Muslims and moving US embassy to Jerusalem. But I think it's not his idea, it's Jared Kushner who influenced him for that.


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## thetutle

F-22Raptor said:


> Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. The Soviets were just as evil as the Nazis.


Thats right just as bad. Given a vote, most of europe then would have voted to live under hitler instead of Stalin. Its not the best choice but it was the only choice at the time.



jamahir said:


> Even if it is the AfD you don't want to listen to that five percent ? I thought you prided the West on being democratic ?


Now you support the AfD?


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## thetutle

Elvin said:


> Russia’s plan envisions donbass, moldova and potentially the western balkans where they will support the serbs and their fanatical fascist ideas of a “greater serbia” at the expense of others. Bosnia is being defended in Ukraine right now.


So true, Ukranians are defending Bosnia, and all of europe right now. Had Ukraine fallen, I have no doubt the Serbs in Bosnia would have tried some sort of breaking away. 

We know that Dodik (Leader of Bosnian serbs, and Bosnian president), got a few calls from Lavrov when this started and was probably told to "activate the plan", presumably for secession. 

For once the Serbs have judged the situation correctly and have saved themselves by not carrying out such a plan. The serbs, having access to free press and freedom of speech can see that the Russians are totally F*&#ed. Thats the whole west is going to just destroy russia and anyone that acts as a russian puppet. 

This is a good thing. We dont need this type of conflict and neither do the serbs. And may this continue, every year that passes we get stronger and they get weaker.



Apollon said:


> Levante is not arab. Arabs were as much invaders there as Romans.


Was it greek?


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523645425479131141

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## Bengal71

WotTen said:


> I don't trust the numbers from either side. What's amusing and interesting , though, is the failure on both sides during this war in their supposedly strong suit.
> 
> The Russians have disappointed in the military domain. The image of Russia as a military superpower now exists only because of 6000+ nuclear weapons and advanced missiles.
> 
> The West has disappointed in the media domain. *The Western propaganda has been so amateurish*, it's almost comparable to North Korean or Soviet era garbage. *Few people outside the heavily censored Western countries buy their propaganda*. I guess when you rely on censorship to silence the other side, one becomes lazy and slacks off with obviously staged videos.



I think the reason for this is there is a great awareness in the non-western world about western hypocrisy and their false propaganda over the last few decades.


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## thetutle

Wergeland said:


> Dont understand what Finland is trying to achieve here.


you are soon going to find out.


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## thetutle

Sineva said:


> A rather bizarre one here:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524113558715383810Tho it does raise the rather obvious question as to why a civilian police department would have, or even need,equipment that is fit for war service,never mind that it has so much of it [3000 pieces!?]


LOL, Illinois state police, probably has the military strength of Austria.


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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The reasons for the Crusades was of course because the Muslims invaded Eastern Rome. Then the Muslims continued and tried to invade Western/Central Europe.
> 
> 
> Of course, it was the government forces that committed the atrocities,


Yeah sure .


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## jhungary

Wergeland said:


> Dont understand what Finland is trying to achieve here. It has been peaceful and has not been attacked by neither Soviet or Russia ever since mutual understanding which came in effect after the WW2. During all those cold war days Soviet never attacked Finland.
> 
> But now Finland wants to be a part of NATO and risk becoming hot contested territory.


This is what you think.

If you have been in Finland for a long period of time, you would know they act peaceful but they are preparing for war for quite some time now, the amount of fortification build on top or underground would more or less be enough to accommodate the entire Finnish population to live underground, and they trained their reserve in the guise of civil protection force (like gun range every week). Just because they don't talk about it, that does not mean they don't worry about their neighbour to their East.

Problem is, Russia is attacking Ukrainian, the people most Russian called "Their Brother" and most Ukrainian have blood relative in Russia, and most people between the two country is connected. Yet, Russia is invading to look for a bigger piece of land for buffer. Now if they do that to their "Slavic Brothers" what would you think the Russian will do to the Finns? Don't forget Putin claim a lot of Finnish land as Russian land too.

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## thetutle

Sineva said:


> Chicago must be a literal fvcking war zone then.


1,500 shootings per year in Chicago. Thats 4 per day.


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## Hack-Hook

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Palestine, Anatolia and Constantinople were not Arab land.
> Bringing up the Crusades in a thread about Russia and Ukraine is the original derailing.


Read history and ten come and tell us who started roman Arab wars


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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> 1,500 shootings per year in Chicago. Thats 4 per day.


Most Police department in the US have thousand of Body Protection equipment. Big department like LAPD would have 20-30,000 set of Personal Protection giving their department size (Think they have around 20000 officer), every police officer have plate carrier and ballistic helmet these day. Hell, I have had over 100 set of Body Armour and Helmet.

Also Illinois State Police does not have jurisdiction in Chicago, Chicago PD in charge of city of Chicago, and CPD is about 6-8 times the size of ISP

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## Broccoli

Wergeland said:


> Dont understand what Finland is trying to achieve here. It has been peaceful and has not been attacked by neither Soviet or Russia ever since mutual understanding which came in effect after the WW2. During all those cold war days Soviet never attacked Finland.
> 
> But now Finland wants to be a part of NATO and risk becoming hot contested territory.



Hot air from Russia.

Do tell where do Russians get these soldiers to make Finland contested territory? Thei best soldiers are getting mauled in Ukraine and what they got left elsewhere is second rate.

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## Wergeland

jhungary said:


> This is what you think.
> 
> If you have been in Finland for a long period of time, you would know they act peaceful but they are preparing for war for quite some time now, the amount of fortification build on top or underground would more or less be enough to accommodate the entire Finnish population to live underground, and they trained their reserve in the guise of civil protection force (like gun range every week). Just because they don't talk about it, that does not mean they don't worry about their neighbour to their East.
> 
> Problem is, Russia is attacking Ukrainian, the people most Russian called "Their Brother" and most Ukrainian have blood relative in Russia, and most people between the two country is connected. Yet, Russia is invading to look for a bigger piece of land for buffer. Now if they do that to their "Slavic Brothers" what would you think the Russian will do to the Finns? Don't forget Putin claim a lot of Finnish land as Russian land too.



I know that. The Finns have strong defence forces, especially civil defence. Its our neigbor nordic nation after all.

Still, that dosent adress my previous point. By all respect Soviet in its heydays would have made mince meat of Finland, if it wanted to. But it left Finland alone. During all those peaceful years Finland grew economically and built a stable modern society. 

Why do the Finns want to risk their fortunes for a non-existing threat? The Russians arent interested in conqouring Finland. Theyre happy with the current set-up where Finns are neutral.

If Finland seek NATO membership it is more likely for Russia to seek preventive measures.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524327855924158465

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## Wergeland

Broccoli said:


> Hot air from Russia.
> 
> Do tell where do Russians get these soldiers to make Finland contested territory? Thei best soldiers are getting mauled in Ukraine and what they got left elsewhere is second rate.



Youre missing the point.

Russia can afford to send millions of soldiers to the battlefield if it has to fight a existential threat. On the other hand Russia dosent have to send thousands of soldiers in order to create problems for Finland. They only have to fire a few weapons in order to crush the Finnish economy.

The question remain why on earth does Finland want to risk everything they have built in order to gain so little? Its not like Russia is amassing massive Army right outside Finnish border as we speak.

Russia is avdancing in Ukraine, every week they control more territory. Thats a fact. Not all wars are like German Panzerfaust blitzwar or First Gulf War. Some wars are fought over decadades and decades. Heck some even lasts for centuries.

If Russia attacks Finland immidiately before it is acceded into NATO, very likely USA wont directly involve itself in the conflict, just like in Ukraine.

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Most Police department in the US have thousand of Body Protection equipment. Big department like LAPD would have 20-30,000 set of Personal Protection giving their department size (Think they have around 20000 officer), every police officer have plate carrier and ballistic helmet these day. Hell, I have had over 100 set of Body Armour and Helmet.
> 
> Also Illinois State Police does not have jurisdiction in Chicago, Chicago PD in charge of city of Chicago, and CPD is about 6-8 times the size of ISP


Right, so Chicago PD is about the strength of the Austrian Army.



Wergeland said:


> Why do the Finns want to risk their fortunes for a non-existing threat? The Russians arent interested in conqouring Finland. Theyre happy with the current set-up where Finns are neutral.


ehehehhheheheh hehehehe


Wergeland said:


> If Finland seek NATO membership it is more likely for Russia to seek preventive measures.


yes, let them. Cant wait.


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## CAPRICORN-88

Wergeland said:


> Youre missing the point.
> 
> Russia can afford to send millions of soldiers to the battlefield if it has to fight a existential threat. On the other hand Russia dosent have to send thousands of soldiers in order to create problems for Finland. They only have to fire a few couple weapons in order to crush the Finnish economy.
> 
> The question remain why on earth does Finland whant to risk everything they have built in order to gain so little? Its not like Russia is amassing massive Army right outside Finnish border as we speak.
> 
> Russia is avdancing in Ukraine, every week they control more terroritory. Thats a fact. Not all wars are like German Panzerfaust blitzwar or First Gulf War. Some war are fought over decadades and decades. Heck some even lasts for centuries.
> 
> If Russia attacks Finland immidiately before it is acceded into NATO, very likely USA wont directly involve itself in the conflict, kust like in Ukraine.


Yes. Nations should act what is best for their nation's interest. 

What is so good and the point of participating in an alliance that antagonized another one, in this case a nuclear superpower and eventually discovered Finland will be the first in line of fire?

From the 1945 till now Finland did not have any major issue with her security with Russia. 

Any dispute is always settled without any conflict. 

That is what the flaw democracy of the West brings them. 

Closer to war. Ukraine is a good example. Her infrastructure, industries and cities are mainly destroyed.


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## Corax

gambit said:


> So the US have a string of 'losses' against smaller countries, like how Russia is sort of 'losing' against Ukraine now. Is that how you see the US military?



I see similarities in both Russian and US armed forces when they are forced to fight wars of attrition against an enemy using dissimilar tactics and weapons, especially if it's a proxy war being supported by an apposing super power, i.e. Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan (both US and USSR invasions), and now Ukraine.

However, one key difference between you and the Russians is that the Russians still have a tougher stomach for losses and attrition warfare after WWII, you can't stomach that anymore, as demonstrated by your invasions in Vietnam, the Middle East, and Afghanistan.

If the Iraqis and the Taliban were given the same amount of support as you're given the Ukrainians, your defeats there would have been more bloody and quicker. You can only stomach a fight with weak ragtag enemies whose only real weapon is time and attrition. 

The Russians will happily destroy themselves rather than admit defeat and run away, and that's what you're exploiting, given that Austin has openly admitted it.


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## Sineva

thetutle said:


> 1,500 shootings per year in Chicago. Thats 4 per day.


That certainly sounds like a war zone to me m8,or an urban one at least.

Maybe the op below was meaning a different chicago,....maybe chicago vietnam....? 


Viet said:


> Illinois has Chicago. fatal shooting happens almost every night. Police has military gears.


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## jhungary

Wergeland said:


> I know that. The Finns have strong defence forces, especially civil defence. Its our neigbor nordic nation after all.
> 
> Still, that dosent adress my previous point. By all respect Soviet in its heydays would have made mince meat of Finland, if it wanted to. But it left Finland alone. During all those peaceful years Finland grew economically and built a stable modern society.
> 
> Why do the Finns want to risk their fortunes for a non-existing threat? The Russians arent interested in conqouring Finland. Theyre happy with the current set-up where Finns are neutral.
> 
> If Finland seek NATO membership it is more likely for Russia to seek preventive measures.


Well, people think Russia will not attack Ukraine just 3 months ago. Those people also said "Why do Russian want to risk their fortunes for Ukraine?" 

Now they did invaded Ukraine, and if you are a Finn, what would you think??

This is not "Non-exist" anymore when the land grabbing ambition from Russia is real, when they are actually invading another country, a country most Russia would considered as a Brother.

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## Vergennes

Wergeland said:


> Youre missing the point.
> 
> Russia can afford to send millions of soldiers to the battlefield if it has to fight a existential threat. On the other hand Russia dosent have to send thousands of soldiers in order to create problems for Finland. They only have to fire a few weapons in order to crush the Finnish economy.
> 
> The question remain why on earth does Finland want to risk everything they have built in order to gain so little? Its not like Russia is amassing massive Army right outside Finnish border as we speak.
> 
> Russia is avdancing in Ukraine, every week they control more terroritory. Thats a fact. Not all wars are like German Panzerfaust blitzwar or First Gulf War. Some wars are fought over decadades and decades. Heck some even lasts for centuries.
> 
> If Russia attacks Finland immidiately before it is acceded into NATO, very likely USA wont directly involve itself in the conflict, just like in Ukraine.



Russia doesn't actually have the capabilities to invade a country like Finland where they have strong armed reserves,better equipped and organized than those in Ukraine and a strong sense of civil defense. 

And with what forces do you actually expect the Russians to attack Finland ? They are stretched thin already in Ukraine where a majority of their ground forces BTGs are mobilized,all those garrisons near Finland have been emptied....

You are acting as if it was WW2 where Russia could throw in millions and millions of soldiers in endless waves but wake up this is the 21st century. You can't easily replace an infantry soldier,a tankist,a pilot,a sailor it takes months if not years to get one ready..... 

"Russia can mobilize millions of soldiers".... Today's Russians do not have the same resilience as in tsarist or soviet times,they will refuse to be sent as cannon fodder in pointless wars.... they are already dodging draft and burning army recruitment centers.... and with what training exactly and which equipments ? "They have huge equipments reserves". What Russia counts as "reserves" are just huge junkyards with non operational antiquities that probably can't be put back into service.

"Wars can last decades or years". Of course. But can Russia afford such a long and bloody war ? On the long term,no. Ukrainians have nothing to lose. The Russians,do.

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## jhungary

Wergeland said:


> Youre missing the point.
> 
> Russia can afford to send millions of soldiers to the battlefield if it has to fight a existential threat. On the other hand Russia dosent have to send thousands of soldiers in order to create problems for Finland. They only have to fire a few weapons in order to crush the Finnish economy.
> 
> The question remain why on earth does Finland want to risk everything they have built in order to gain so little? Its not like Russia is amassing massive Army right outside Finnish border as we speak.
> 
> Russia is avdancing in Ukraine, every week they control more territory. Thats a fact. Not all wars are like German Panzerfaust blitzwar or First Gulf War. Some wars are fought over decadades and decades. Heck some even lasts for centuries.
> 
> If Russia attacks Finland immidiately before it is acceded into NATO, very likely USA wont directly involve itself in the conflict, just like in Ukraine.


US had already openly offered Security Assurance to Finland and Sweden, if they decided to join NATO.

Also, even if that is Ukraine like weapon deal, Finland are trained with a lot of Advance Western Weapon, just imagine US sending the 500+ Legacy Hornet to Finland which they were trained to fly or even F-35 to Finland. That would be 10 times more harder to crack than trying it on a "Soviet Weapon" using Ukraine.

And finally, the Finland landscape is not the same as Ukraine, where they have an open field in the East, it would be cold mountain waiting on the Russian should they engage the Finns. That would be Winter War 2.0 but this time with the entire Europe Backing, I mean you saw how much the EU and US supplies the Ukrainian, think what the Finn is going to get in case of a war between Russia and Finland??

And I just spend 6 weeks (well, 40 days) in Ukraine and just got back yesterday, trust me when I say this, Russia is NOT gaining more ground everyweek. They gain some and lose some, and that's a very generous assessment on the field, and yes, I have been to Kharkiv.

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## Wergeland

jhungary said:


> Well, people think Russia will not attack Ukraine just 3 months ago. Those people also said "Why do Russian want to risk their fortunes for Ukraine?"
> 
> Now they did invaded Ukraine, and if you are a Finn, what would you think??
> 
> This is not "Non-exist" anymore when the land grabbing ambition from Russia is real, when they are actually invading another country, a country most Russia would considered as a Brother.



Ukraine was infiltrated by USA , Poland and UK. It was steadily moved away from being a Russian friendly to a anti-Russian land. Ukraine could have choosen a neutral stance and gotten away with it but it went full retard.

Using your own logic. Why did not Russia attack Ukraine until now? Ukraine was independent since end of cold war. The answer is simple; Ukraine wasnt a threat to Russia until mid 2010s when all that slowly started to changed.

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## jhungary

Wergeland said:


> Ukraine was infiltrated by USA , Poland and UK. It was steadily moved away from being a Russian friendly to a anti-Russian land. Ukraine could have choosen a neutral stance and gotten away with it but it went full retard.
> 
> Using your own logic. Why did not Russia attack Ukraine until now? Ukraine was independent since end of cold war. The answer is simple; Ukraine wasnt a threat to Russia until mid 2010s when all that slowly started to changed.


Sure, blame the country being invaded for being invaded. What if Ukraine moving away from Russia, does that somehow justify Russian invasion??

Threat? What Threat? If a country sovereignty is a threat to another country, then the sole existence of that country itself is a threat, are you telling me Ukraine have no right to exist and exercise their own sovereignty decision on who they trade with and who they align with? Ukraine was NOT part of Russia, and that is for a good reason. You don't invade a country because they are trying to join an alliance so they were not to be invaded.

If you think NATO is a threat to Russia, then I got news for you, NATO, with or without Ukraine, is ALWAYS going to be a threat on Russia, it is ALWAYS going to be on the 3 sides around Russia, adding Ukraine will not change this prospect because that line already have 2 NATO Member bordering Russia. On the other hand, you attack someone and then use that attack as a threat to another country so they don't join a foreign alliance? You either have to be really stupid or really naive or a bit of both to have it make sense, because you failed to see it is YOUR THREAT, not the threat you perceived against you, forcing these country to join NATO.

When Russia invade Ukraine, the entire "Russia is no threat and minding their own business so NATO have no reason to expand" argument goes right out of the window. Because Russia aren't minding their own business, unless you are claiming Putin is right, Ukraine itself have no right to exist and it belong to Russia.



thetutle said:


> Right, so Chicago PD is about the strength of the Austrian Army.
> 
> 
> ehehehhheheheh hehehehe
> 
> yes, let them. Cant wait.


Meh CPD is shit........

Well, I should say their mayor (Lightfoot) is shit........


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## Wergeland

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The no-fly zones were established to protect minorities from Saddams genocidal attacks on Shias and Kurds.



The Shias killed tens of thousand of Sunnis after Second Iraq War. All while the US looked the other way. Sunnis are still being opressed in Iraq today. Is the US gonna implement a new no-fly zone soon?

Wanna know the real reason behind Second Iraq War? The US simply wanted to make an example of a country by throwing it against a wall and showing the world who is the boss. Afghanistan was too small and had no real coventional Army. The Taliban went guerilla mode immidiately after the war.

Rumsfeld and Cheney reasoned that Afghanistan was a too easy target and did not send the message USA wanted to. Iraq was the perfect country for that. It had a coventional Army that was one of the strongest in arab world, atleast on paper.

Read the Leeden doctrine.
named after neoconservative historian Michael Ledeen. The “doctrine” states:
_“Every ten years or so, the United States needs to pick up some small crappy little country and throw it against the wall, just to show the world we mean business.”_

Basically just bully tactics

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## Wergeland

jhungary said:


> US had already openly offered Security Assurance to Finland and Sweden, if they decided to join NATO.
> 
> Also, even if that is Ukraine like weapon deal, Finland are trained with a lot of Advance Western Weapon, just imagine US sending the 500+ Legacy Hornet to Finland which they were trained to fly or even F-35 to Finland. That would be 10 times more harder to crack than trying it on a "Soviet Weapon" using Ukraine.
> 
> And finally, the Finland landscape is not the same as Ukraine, where they have an open field in the East, it would be cold mountain waiting on the Russian should they engage the Finns. That would be Winter War 2.0 but this time with the entire Europe Backing, I mean you saw how much the EU and US supplies the Ukrainian, think what the Finn is going to get in case of a war between Russia and Finland??
> 
> And I just spend 6 weeks (well, 40 days) in Ukraine and just got back yesterday, trust me when I say this, Russia is NOT gaining more ground everyweek. They gain some and lose some, and that's a very generous assessment on the field, and yes, I have been to Kharkiv.



Russia fire 100 legacy cruise missiles (Yakhont etc.) and destroy critical infrastructure in Finland, ruining its economy. What is Finland gonna do?

Youre still missing my point.
Finland is capable of giving Russia a bloody nose, especially with NATO assitance in some form or another. We all know that. But the reality still remain; Finlands economy is destroyed.

I am arguing for policies that prevent war. Youre arguing for policies that may or may not make Finland win a war with Russia, which regardless will make Finland a war torn wasteland. See the difference?

Why are you guys so keen on fighting Russia on its smaller neighbors soil? Why arent you Americans fighting Russia directly if youre so frikkin brave. Getting on my nerves with all that false bravado.



jhungary said:


> Sure, blame the country being invaded for being invaded. What if Ukraine moving away from Russia, does that somehow justify Russian invasion??



Lol who are we trying to kid here.
You know there was a crisis during the 1960s when the entire world was on the brink of full blown nuclear holocaust. Because the US couldnt tolerate Soviet nuclear weapon 200 km off its southern coast.

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## F-22Raptor

Wergeland said:


> Russia fire 100 legacy cruise missiles (Yakhont etc.) and destroy critical infrastructure in Finland, ruining its economy. What is Finland gonna do?
> 
> Youre still missing my point.
> Finland is capable of giving Russia a bloody nose, especially with NATO assitance in some form or another. We all know that. But the reality still remain; Finlands economy is destroyed.
> 
> I am arguing for policies that prevent war. Youre arguing for policies that may or may not make Finland win a war with Russia, which regardless will make Finland a war torn wasteland. See the difference?
> 
> Why are you guys so keen on fighting Russia on its smaller neighbors soil? Why arent you Americans fighting Russia directly if youre so frikkin brave. Getting on my nerves with all that false bravado.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol who are we trying to kid here.
> You know there was a crisis during the 1960s when the entire world was on the brink of full blown nuclear holocaust. Because the US couldnt tolerate Soviet nuclear weapont 200 km off its southern coast.



The US is destroying the Russian military without having to send a single soldier to Ukraine. I’d say that’s pretty brilliant.

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## jhungary

Wergeland said:


> Russia fire 100 legacy cruise missiles (Yakhont etc.) and destroy critical infrastructure in Finland, ruining its economy. What is Finland gonna do?
> 
> Youre still missing my point.
> Finland is capable of giving Russia a bloody nose, especially with NATO assitance in some form or another. But the reality still remain; Finlands economy is destroyed.
> 
> I am arguing for policies that prevent war. Youre arguing for policies that may or may not make Finland win a war with Russia, which regardless will make Finland a war torn wasteland.
> 
> Why are you guys so keen on fighting Russia on its smaller neighbors soil? Why arent you Americans fighting Russia directly if youre so frikkin brave. Getting on my nerves with all that false bravado.


lol, how much damage to Kyiv? After it had taken over 1000 missile/bomb over the last 72 days? Let me give you a hint, it's not much, as I said, I have just been there. You think 100 legacy cruise missile would make any different? First of all, not every missile you fire is going to hit their mark, it's 1 out of 4 missile if that is a US missile, and then there are some missile that is going to be intercepted. Which mean it left around 10-20% (If you are really good, not the case if you use legacy missile)

On the other hand, can you really destroy an economy with just Missile or Air Strike? The major issue with Ukrainian Economy is not from Russian air attacks, it is from the Russian Navy blockading the Black Sea and they can't run their grain export out. It have to be a physical step to destroy someone's economy, a few missile here and there, the damage is really limited. I don't know how much you think the mess a few hundred cruise missile is going to make, it's not that much, and it certainly not in a way it can destroy someone's economy.

On the other hand, you are discounting the Finnish capability to strike back and take out those launcher, or even ingress into Russian territories to kill those missile, like the SAS do to SCUD during the first gulf war. Even facing a sub-par enemy like Ukraine, Russian missile still did not perform their base, and you are looking at a on par adversary.

On the other hand, what I am talking about is not for Finland to win a war, What I am talking about is how or why Finland want to seek NATO membership, they are not in it to win a war with Russia, they are doing it to prevent a war from having 30 countries backing, and what I said is Russian is the reason why these country joined NATO.

Talking about "False Bravado" I am not the one that say "Russian can raise a million men army and trample Finland if they think anything stupid" That's false Bravado. I said what I think is right, I DO what I think is right, as I said, I have been in Ukraine in the last 6 weeks, have you been to comment on such an issue?? War is not some mere commentary you can just say, people died in war, and what you are saying here is basically hide behind those "Million Russian" and let them do your bidding. Maybe you should grow some balls and go join the fight with the Russian if you think NATO is a threat, and stop hiding behind a NATO country and pretending everything is A-OK. 

Russian taking a stance behind their leader, that I understand, some Norwegian guy taking a stance behind Putin with no horse in it. That I don't understand, and then the same dude calling me out for "False Bravado" that's a LOL moment.

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## Viet

Sineva said:


> That certainly sounds like a war zone to me m8,or an urban one at least.
> 
> Maybe the op below was meaning a different chicago,....maybe chicago vietnam....?


Chicago police is no joke.


Wergeland said:


> Russia fire 100 legacy cruise missiles (Yakhont etc.) and destroy critical infrastructure in Finland, ruining its economy. What is Finland gonna do?
> 
> Youre still missing my point.
> Finland is capable of giving Russia a bloody nose, especially with NATO assitance in some form or another. We all know that. But the reality still remain; Finlands economy is destroyed.
> 
> I am arguing for policies that prevent war. Youre arguing for policies that may or may not make Finland win a war with Russia, which regardless will make Finland a war torn wasteland. See the difference?
> 
> Why are you guys so keen on fighting Russia on its smaller neighbors soil? Why arent you Americans fighting Russia directly if youre so frikkin brave. Getting on my nerves with all that false bravado.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol who are we trying to kid here.
> You know there was a crisis during the 1960s when the entire world was on the brink of full blown nuclear holocaust. Because the US couldnt tolerate Soviet nuclear weapon 200 km off its southern coast.


It’s not Russia. There is no problem with. The problem is Putin. The people in Finland don’t trust Putin. Nobody in Europe trust Putin. As long as Putin is in power or alive there will be no peace nor normalization. As one German politician puts it, he was German ambassador to Russia: Putin came and turned the chess table upside down. The chess game as we know it does not exist anymore. It’s now Putin game.


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## Paul2

Wergeland said:


> Russia fire 100 legacy cruise missiles (Yakhont etc.) and destroy critical infrastructure in Finland, ruining its economy. What is Finland gonna do?
> 
> Youre still missing my point.
> Finland is capable of giving Russia a bloody nose, especially with NATO assitance in some form or another. We all know that. But the reality still remain; Finlands economy is destroyed.
> 
> I am arguing for policies that prevent war. Youre arguing for policies that may or may not make Finland win a war with Russia, which regardless will make Finland a war torn wasteland. See the difference?
> 
> Why are you guys so keen on fighting Russia on its smaller neighbors soil? Why arent you Americans fighting Russia directly if youre so frikkin brave. Getting on my nerves with all that false bravado.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol who are we trying to kid here.
> You know there was a crisis during the 1960s when the entire world was on the brink of full blown nuclear holocaust. Because the US couldnt tolerate Soviet nuclear weapon 200 km off its southern coast.



War in Finland = Winter War II

FYI, Finland has a lot of forest... 


Even with their tiny population, they can stall Russians for even longer than Ukrainians if they can withstand the initial shock.

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## jhungary

Wergeland said:


> Lol who are we trying to kid here.
> You know there was a crisis during the 1960s when the entire world was on the brink of full blown nuclear holocaust. Because the US couldnt tolerate Soviet nuclear weapon 200 km off its southern coast.


The question is, did we invade Cuba?

Another question is, what if US put Nuclear Missile in Estonia or Lativa? One thing US can't tolerate something, you try to subverts a country because of that. The problem is, we are not talking about diplomatic crisis here, which is what "Cuban Missile Crisis" was. We are talking about a full blown war. 

Also, have it ever occurred to you why Soviet Union or Russia did not try the same tricks again? There are order for everything, you don't like the order does not mean you can break rank and invade someone, and when you do, you cannot fault other people from seeing you as a threat. I am pretty sure if US invaded Cuba back then it will push more Latin America into Soviet Camp, that's why US did not invade, and now you are saying Russia should have the right the invade and issue threat when other country see Russian invasion as a threat? Now who's kidding who??


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## Wood

Paul2 said:


> War in Finland = Winter War II
> 
> FYI, Finland has a lot of forest...
> 
> 
> Even with their tiny population, they can stall Russians for even longer than Ukrainians if they can withstand the initial shock.


.. after the Ukraine adventure, I don't think Russia has what it takes to surprise Finland any time soon


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## jhungary

Wood said:


> .. after the Ukraine adventure, I don't think Russia has what it takes to surprise Finland any time soon


Think the British intelligence is putting Russia back 6 years. 

Which mean it will take 6 years to recover from the lost they suffer from Ukraine. And that did not put sanction into equation, conservative estimate that Russia military is 10 years away from their next adventure. 

Even if Russia want to surprise Finland, they don't get anything now, they can't fight Finland and Ukraine at the same time.

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## Apollon

Russias most advanced armata tank got cooked from a old Panzerfaust from 1941 










Panzerbüchse von 1941 zerstört modernen T-90M


Es ist schon überraschend, wenn die Ukraine vermeldet, dass ein moderner russischer Kampfpanzer aus dem Jahr 1992 mit einer Waffe vernichtet wurde, deren Ursprung auf das Jahr 1941 zurückgeht. Aber auch die Vernichtung durch Drohnen lässt die Frage aufkommen: Hat der Panzer per se für die...




www.n-tv.de


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## Wood

jhungary said:


> Think the British intelligence is putting Russia back 6 years.
> 
> Which mean it will take 6 years to recover from the lost they suffer from Ukraine. And that did not put sanction into equation, conservative estimate that Russia military is 10 years away from their next adventure.
> 
> Even if Russia want to surprise Finland, they don't get anything now, they can't fight Finland and Ukraine at the same time.


Welcome back

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## Daylamite Warrior

Wergeland said:


> The west developed from the ruins of Rome. Rome borrowed their culture from Etruscans and Greeks, and also Phoeneicians and Egyptians.
> 
> In other words..Same same but different.
> 
> West in its core is a Germanic civilization. By that i mean ethno-culturally germanic. Mark the difference between german and germanic. French and English is germanic but not german. Irish are mostly celts i believe and neither germanic or german.
> 
> Tribes from the periphery of Roman Empire attacked and migrated into a declining Roman Europe. They adopted Roman costumes and culture, but to a large degree also retained their own ancestral tribal culture.
> 
> Thus Western civilization is NOT the same as Greco-Roman civilization, although the West is proud of its Classical heritage.


Lol the west isn't one race, it's an idea and a region of the globe, which Italy and Greece have always been a part of. You're playing around with words like "Germanic" and "Celt" yet they are all part of the same Indo-European language and have similar ways of living. "Same same but different" is code for "I dont know what I'm talking about so I'm going to just contradict myself" lol. 

How do you think knowledge develops? You learn from others around you. Of course the Greeks and Romans learnt from the Mesopotamians, likewise the Germans learnt from Romans, albeit after nearly a millennia of dark ages and Muslim golden age which helped preserve the knowledge. To add to that, the western enlightenment wouldnt have happened if it werent for Italian and Spanisn polymaths studying this during the Renaissance. To ignore Roman, Greek and later Latin contribution to western civilisation, or to refuse to class them as western, really shown you're only arguing for the sake of arguing. Im not going to waste any more time trying to convince you that the sky is blue.


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## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> The US is destroying the Russian military without having to send a single soldier to Ukraine. I’d say that’s pretty brilliant.


Congrats on finding out about proxy warfare


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## A.P. Richelieu

nufix said:


> Sovereign in name only. De Facto Iraq was occupied by the coalition force at least until 2011, a whole seven to eight years and over one million Iraqi deaths! And you just skipped the whole 4 years of ISIS rule in the country as a direct result of the de-establishment of Iraq as a functional country and government in the decade before.
> 
> So using your argument, if Russia ended up seizing current Ukrainian leaders, hang them, and then "transfer the power back" to the Ukrainians, then all will be well?
> 
> Terms can be twisted to suit one's narrative, but they are essentially the same.


The United States never questioned that Iraq was a sovereign nation. The US did not annex territory.
Most of those deaths were killed by Iraqis as Saddams cronies aka ISIS tried to regain power through terror, and Iran supported Shia militia responded in kind.
Saddam was not a legal ruler of Iraq and grabbed power in a military coup, and committed multiple crimes, for which he was hanged after an Iraqi trial. He was killed by the Iraqis, not by the Americans.

Russia has already annexed part of Ukraine and announced that Ukraine is to disappear.
While Ukraine has a significant corruption problem, that is none of Russias business, and there is nothing similar to Saddams brutal regime in Ukraine.

You do not have a similar situation.

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## Daylamite Warrior

WotTen said:


> Well, I don't want to generalize against 'westerners' as a group. There are good and bad people in every group. We can't hold ordinary westerners responsible for bad actions by their government, any more than we can hold an ordinary Muslim responsible for bad actions by extremist groups.


Well allow me to go ahead and generelise, then. Generelising is a facts of life, an essential tool that humans use to survive and can be proven by statistics and evidence. People's feelings become secondary. We also can hold the people responsible since they boast of voting these leaders in, as well as the fact the west is the first to demonise and attack civilians everytime they begin a war.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Just read the news. Biden is considering another USD 40 billion worth of arms to Ukraine.
> 
> I don't know what many average Americans would be thinking. Nothing allocated to save them the needy.
> 
> Statistics shown only 33 nations are supporting the US and NATO in their campaign against Russia. Meaning 1 in 6 of all the nations in the world. So the world Biden, Antony Blinkens, Lizz Truss, Jake Sullivan are talking is very small.
> 
> This included small states like Luxembourg, North Macedonia, Slovenia, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia.
> 
> Many cities in Asia has more people that those states.
> 
> The rest of the world which is 5/6 of thr 195 nations choose neutrality.



Deep State is panicking because Putin not only did he reject the US Dollar but because he demanded that anyone in the West who is buying oil, natural gas from Russia must do so in Rubles. To the Deep State, they see this as a blow against their hegemony. Therefore, they seem to be willing to throw every dime they can afford on this war. 

China is also reportedly demanding from OPEC that they take Yuan instead of the USD for all hydrocarbon sales. This is what all of the noise about "containing China" is all about.

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## Iron Shrappenel

Don't know if this video was posted here before or not.. but... An analysis on the shortcomings of the VDV as a fighting force.... Criticism and Feedback is welcome... (Honestly something i would be expecting from this thread but what can I say)....


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## jhungary

Wood said:


> Welcome back


Thanks

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## Vergennes

LMAO


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524368847444320259

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## Daylamite Warrior

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Turks are Muslims and when they captured Jerusalem they immediately started to repress Christians.
> That justified the Crusades.
> 
> The West does not demonize Russian athletes, it simply does not allow Russia to be represented on the world stages.
> 
> You are talking about justification as the West is the only party to blame and ignore the development of the human rights concept during the 20th century, mostly driven by people in the West.
> 
> Do you justify the million European slaves that Muslims captured and sold over the centuries?
> Muslim pirates went as far north as Iceland.
> Does you justify Muslim armies in France and Austria,
> Does you justify the Muslim massacres of POWs after the Battle of Hattin?
> The fact is that Muslims have a historical record which is not much different from that of the West.


If it was their Muslim faith that governed why they did that then why didnt previous Muslim dynaties do the same? So their ethnicity has to be called into question, as opposed to just their faitth. Furthermore, they were at war with Byzantium, therefore nobody can expect favourable treatment until treaties are signed. Basic stuff. The Crusades happened when Alexios I begged the Latin Church to send their military to help fight, otherwise the western church never made pilgrimage to the Holy Land, as it was all about the Vatican, and would never have made the journey. Again basic stuff. However, none of that justifies the Crusades.

Yes they do demonise Russian athletes because they arent even allowed to complete as independent and the censorship has gone beyond Putin and gone into Russian culture, which is inherently fascist and racist. Sooner you accept this the less delusional you will appear.

Human rights is not a western construct and the west themselves have contributed a lot to its degradation, only to then regret what they had done and virtue signal some human rights bills or laws into existance (which are seldomly used when it doesn't fit their national interest).

Yes Muslim slaves lived better than Western freemen, cloathed and fed as per sharia law. Western slaves were systematically raped, tortured and killed, which would amount to capital punishment according to sharia law. Comparing berber pirates to the main body of Muslims would be like me comparing Ku Klux Klan to western civilisation, you'd be the first to cry foul if anyone did that. 

Muslims conducted slavery during a time when slavery was the norm, to complain about that shows hypocrisy and fallacy of presentism. No Muslim nation has slaves any more so it's a moot point. Regarding the Muslim retaliation to the countless massacres by Crusaders, then that is justified. We believe in eye for an eye so the Muslims had to teach the blood thirsty Latin crusaders that their massacres will eventually catch up with them. Those who were killed at Hattin were the combatant captives, not the Christian populations. The Crusaders would massacre entire towns of people, men women and children. How dare you compare the two! Muslims and the west are chalk and cheese when it comes to spilling blood im afraid, the West as expected excels in that too!


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## CAPRICORN-88

https://****/ostashkonews/11001


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## Wergeland

jhungary said:


> The question is, did we invade Cuba?



No because you didnt have to as both Soviet and Cuba backed off, and a deal was reached between US and Soviet.

Did the US and Ukraine back off ?


jhungary said:


> The problem is, we are not talking about diplomatic crisis here, which is what "Cuban Missile Crisis" was. We are talking about a full blown war.



A full blown war was prevented by the Soviet backing off. Kudos to them and Kruschev.



jhungary said:


> Also, have it ever occurred to you why Soviet Union or Russia did not try the same tricks again? There are order for everything, you don't like the order does not mean you can break rank and invade someone, and when you do, you cannot fault other people from seeing you as a threat



Agree, thats why balace of terror and balance of power is neccesary in order to prevent full blown war between military great powers like US and Russia.

It is the US who broke the balance of power and pushed its forces on the doorstep of Russia. Not the other way. We are leaving out discussions about capabilities to do so just for the sale of a fruitful discussion.



jhungary said:


> . I am pretty sure if US invaded Cuba back then it will push more Latin America into Soviet Camp, that's why US did not invade



US did not invade but did a lot regime change all over Latin America. Many of them quite bloody like Nicaragua, Honduras and Chile.

Youre coveniantly leaving out US wars against Mexico and ouright annexation of 50% of Mexican territory. US also went to war against Canada in order to annex territories but simply got beaten by the Canadians.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524370554438004736


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## Wergeland

Daylamite Warrior said:


> The Crusades happened when Alexios I begged the Latin Church to send their military to help fight, otherwise the western church never made pilgrimage to the Holy Land, as it was all about the Vatican, and would never have made the journey. Again basic stuff. However, none of that justifies the Crusades.



The Crusades had nothing to do with Christianity or the Holy Land. It was a way to extend Papal legitmacy and power, creating a Frankish bridgehead in Levant and outright getting rid of unruly and problematic peasantry. There was even a childrens crusade, were most of them ended up being sold to slavery.

Richard Lionheart forexample was arrested when he arrived back in Europe and died after being humiliated by his own christian bethren.


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## Wergeland

jhungary said:


> lol, how much damage to Kyiv? After it had taken over 1000 missile/bomb over the last 72 days? Let me give you a hint, it's not much, as I said, I have just been there. You think 100 legacy cruise missile would make any different? First of all, not every missile you fire is going to hit their mark, it's 1 out of 4 missile if that is a US missile, and then there are some missile that is going to be intercepted. Which mean it left around 10-20% (If you are really good, not the case if you use legacy missile)




Are you deliberately trolling or are you just oblivious to civilians pains?

Ukraine is devastated and in ruin. Its empty of neccesary food, water and gasoline. Its bridges and highways are destryoed. For all practical purposes Ukraine has stopped functioning as normal state and is a failed state. Which is proven by Ukrainians leaving their own country by the millions.


jhungary said:


> Talking about "False Bravado" I am not the one that say "Russian can raise a million men army and trample Finland if they think anything stupid" That's false Bravado. I



How is that false bravado. Youre telling us that Russia is incapable to amass a several million strong Army if neccesary?
By all means i am willing to eat my own words if you can come up with a good argument on why it cant.

Thinking Finland can economically survive Russian cruise and ballistic missile attack is the real false bravado my friend.

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## jhungary

Wergeland said:


> No because you didnt have to as both Soviet and Cuba backed off, and a deal was reached between US and Soviet.
> 
> Did the US and Ukraine back off ?
> 
> 
> A full blown war was prevented by the Soviet backing off. Kudos to them and Kruschev.


[/quote]

lol, I love how you think a full blown war was prevented by solely Soviet effort. Yeah, of course, no American effort was made to back off from war right? Just letting you know, if we want war, we got war. So no, this is NOT a soviet effort.


Wergeland said:


> Agree, thats why balace of terror and balance of power is neccesary in order to prevent full blown war between military great powers like US and Russia.
> 
> It is the US who broke the balance of power and pushed its forces on the doorstep of Russia. Not the other way. We are leaving out discussions about capabilities to do so just for the sale of a fruitful discussion.


What force? Were it US force in Ukraine? Were there US missile in Ukraine? Russia are saying "They can" host while disregarding the fact that US and NATO rejected Ukrainian NATO membership twice.

Again, we could have post troop in Russian doorstep REGARDLESS, we can put it in Alaska, we can put it on Latvia and Estonia, and we could put it on Turkey if we want to break the agreement not to militarize Russian Border, so no, Russian invasion is NOT an act of balance, it might have been toward Russia, but not literally for anyone else. 

The balance of power were broken by the Russian by physically invading Ukraine. 


Wergeland said:


> US did not invade but did a lot regime change all over Latin America. Many of them quite bloody like Nicaragua, Honduras and Chile.
> 
> Youre coveniantly leaving out US wars against Mexico and ouright annexation of 50% of Mexican territory. US also went to war against Canada in order to annex territories but simply got beaten by the Canadians.


Again, you are comparing a Physical invasion to regime change. One thing is not the same as the other

And lol, if you have to go back and talk about war of 1812, or Mexican American war in 1840, why not talking about Russia war with Persia, or Russia war with the Kingdom of Sweden? How do you think Russian gain control of the Caucasus.

Two wrong does not make one right, especially the "wrong" you are mentioning in from 100 years ago, that was a different world back then.

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## Wergeland

Daylamite Warrior said:


> To ignore Roman, Greek and later Latin contribution to western civilisation, or to refuse to class them as western, really shown you're only arguing for the sake of arguing.



Thats what you got wrong. No one here is ignoring the Greek and Roman contribution. Quite contrary. But still the Western civillization is not the same as the Classical civilization. As simple as that.


----------



## jhungary

Wergeland said:


> Are you deliberately trolling or are you just oblivious to civilians pains?
> 
> Ukraine is devastated and in ruin. Its empty of neccesary food, water and gasoline. Its bridges and highways are destryoed. For all practical purposes Ukraine has stopped functioning as normal state and is a failed state. Which is proven by Ukrainians leaving their own country by the millions.


lol, I can tell you where I have been is not the case, you may have think a lot of destruction in Kyiv, or even Mykolaiv, It wasn't, when I was there in April, it was business as usual, you can still go and have a cup of Joe, even with area like Irpin and Bucha, those place are coming back to life. The only place that were totally destroyed is Mariupol.

And lol, you probably do not know millions of Ukrainian went back home already. Probably more than the number of Russian left after the West Sanction.

Again, I have been there just last week, were you??




Wergeland said:


> How is that false bravado. Youre telling us that Russia is incapable to amass a several million strong Army if neccesary?
> By all means i am willing to eat my own words if you can come up with a good argument on why it cant.
> 
> Thinking Finland can economically survive Russian cruise and ballistic missile attack is the real false bravado my friend.


Of course Russia can raise a millions dude with AK, but then what?

You are saying to raise an army, yet you have no idea how much resource to spend to arm an army? Do you know why we train the TDF in batch? When I was over there, it was the third batch and we are talking about hundred thousand in increment. You need to have suitable training and equipment to form an army, or what do you think how you are going to fight with? OR with what you are going to war with?

How many people do you think your mighty Russia can arm? Let me give you a hint in case you are as clueless as you appear to be, it take Russia approximately 8 months to put all the conscript in this war in places. I would imagine another 3 to 4 months in training. Which mean it take about a year to raise this combat force of 200,000 men, that is before this war, before sanction and then they perform REALLY badly. Now, how long do you think it will take to raise a million strong army?

Dude, it's not like what you say "They can raise a million strong army" if necessary, They can raise a million armed men in defence, but in no way they can raise a million strong expedition army.

And thinking of Ballistic Missile can destroy a economy is real false bravado, bordering ignorant, mi amigo.


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## Paul2

Wood said:


> .. after the Ukraine adventure, I don't think Russia has what it takes to surprise Finland any time soon



Armour is near useless in forests, and the strongest sides of Russian force is armour.

Airforce? PGMs? Jet fighters don't take territory. Though they can blow up your forces in these forests if they are found.

Finland has NASAMS.

Even if they will CAS you to death, CASing will be taxing with PGMs, or without PGMs because you need to waste 2/3 munitions to kill every infantry squad in the middle of nowhere.

I predict that even if PGMs will arrive to Russian airforce, Finnish Hornets have long range missiles, and modern radars. I want PDF readers to internalise why Finland chose to base its force on F-18 over F-16 like Western Europe did.

If they manage to hide their jets in time like Ukrainians did, they will be able to prevent RuAF from deep incursions for a long enough time for the West to back Finland.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Armour is near useless in forests, and the strongest sides of Russian force is armour.
> 
> Airforce? PGMs? Jet fighters don't take territory. Though they can blow up your forces in these forests if they are found.
> 
> Finland has NASAMS.
> 
> Even if they will CAS you to death, CASing will be taxing with PGMs, or without PGMs because you need to waste 2/3 munitions to kill every infantry squad in the middle of nowhere.
> 
> I predict that even if PGMs will arrive to Russian airforce, Finnish Hornets have long range missiles, and modern radars.
> 
> If they manage to hide their jets in time like Ukrainians did, they will be able to prevent RuAF from deep incursions for a long time for the West to back Finland.


The Russian Air Force will be running into the same problem they are running into the Ukrainian. The only different is Finland have more advance SAM and anti-Air system, the best system Ukrainian got is S-300. 

There are no way Russia can perform a Precision strike inside Finland, they did not have dedicated forward deploy observer for that role (The dude on the ground holding a beam rider lighting up target) which mean they would have to depends on dumb bomb like they do in Ukraine. Which mean longer loitering time, which mean they get more chance to be shot down by either Finnish Jet, which is on par with Russian jet, or Finnish SAM. 

And without Air Superiority like they do in Ukraine, any armour or combine arms thrust are not going to end well for the Russian.

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## Wergeland

jhungary said:


> lol, I can tell you where I have been is not the case, you may have think a lot of destruction in Kyiv, or even Mykolaiv, It wasn't, when I was there in April, it was business as usual, you can still go and have a cup of Joe, even with area like Irpin and Bucha, those place are coming back to life. The only place that were totally destroyed is Mariupol.
> 
> And lol, you probably do not know millions of Ukrainian went back home already. Probably more than the number of Russian left after the West Sanction.
> 
> Again, I have been there just last week, were you??
> 
> 
> 
> Of course Russia can raise a millions dude with AK, but then what?
> 
> You are saying to raise an army, yet you have no idea how much resource to spend to arm an army? Do you know why we train the TDF in batch? When I was over there, it was the third batch and we are talking about hundred thousand in increment. You need to have suitable training and equipment to form an army, or what do you think how you are going to fight with? OR with what you are going to war with?
> 
> How many people do you think your mighty Russia can arm? Let me give you a hint in case you are as clueless as you appear to be, it take Russia approximately 8 months to put all the conscript in this war in places. I would imagine another 3 to 4 months in training. Which mean it take about a year to raise this combat force of 200,000 men, that is before this war, before sanction and then they perform REALLY badly. Now, how long do you think it will take to raise a million strong army?
> 
> Dude, it's not like what you say "They can raise a million strong army" if necessary, They can raise a million armed men in defence, but in no way they can raise a million strong expedition army.
> 
> And thinking of Ballistic Missile can destroy a economy is real false bravado, bordering ignorant, mi amigo.



Lol you guys are living safely on the other side of the pond and talking about this and that country beating Russia, this and that way. Of course you do as the fighting and burning will not take place in your own neighborhood.

I have a colleague half Russian and half Ukrainian. Lost childhood friends and family members in Donbass. What did you Americans loose?! Really nothing. Sitting comfy in your chairs and creating war in Europe.

Goddamn your pleasant geography makes you incensitive to the pains of people outside of your country.

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## Ali_Baba

Boris warns Sweden and Finland must be free to decide whether to join NATO without 'threat of retaliation' as he delivers stark message to Putin on visit to the countries to sign historic security pacts​








Boris visits Sweden and Finland to sign historic security pacts


Boris Johnson sent a stark message to Vladimir Putin as he inked pledges to 'bolster military ties' and support Sweden and Finland should they come under attack.




www.dailymail.co.uk


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## jhungary

Wergeland said:


> Lol you guys are living safely on the other side of the pond and talking about this and that country beating Russia, this and that way. Of course you do as the fighting and burning will not take place in your own neighborhood.
> 
> I have a colleague half Russian and half Ukrainian. Lost childhood friends and family members in Donbass. What did you Americans loose?! Really nothing. Sitting comfy in your chairs and creating war in Europe.
> 
> Goddamn your pleasant geography makes you incensitive to the pains of people outside of your country.


Did I mentioned that* I WAS IN KYIV* for almost the entire April??

The commander of the 95th Air Assault Brigade (The defender of Kyiv) is a VERY GOOD FRIEND OF MINE, I was invited by him to train the Territorial Defence Force in Kyiv and I have fought with him in Iraq when he was a Captain. I know multiple people living in Ukraine that fled the war in first day, I know enough people from both side of the aisle to know what both side feel. Hell, i even dated an Ukrainian once.

So, no, it was YOU who sitting comfy at your own home and talk about how a country invade another country and then blame the country that being invaded. If you want to blame Ukraine, go fight with Russia, I am pretty sure you will meet some the the guy I trained. Otherwise, don't sit here and pretend you know shit about Ukraine from the "Colleague" of yours.

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> And without Air Superiority like they do in Ukraine, any armour or combine arms thrust are not going to end well for the Russian.



Lets talk about the future, the question is now not whether the next Russian adventure will be, but when.

One we now know for sure, Russians keep betting on very risky adventures every 3-4 years regardless of the reality on the ground.

People now say that punching Pussolini in the face now will set them back for a long time. It's damn wrong. The timeline for them will only accelerate.

Defence people in the West still don't get the logic of regimes like China, or Russia


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## CAPRICORN-88



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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> Armour is near useless in forests, and the strongest sides of Russian force is armour.
> 
> Airforce? PGMs? Jet fighters don't take territory. Though they can blow up your forces in these forests if they are found.
> 
> Finland has NASAMS.
> 
> Even if they will CAS you to death, CASing will be taxing with PGMs, or without PGMs because you need to waste 2/3 munitions to kill every infantry squad in the middle of nowhere.
> 
> I predict that even if PGMs will arrive to Russian airforce, Finnish Hornets have long range missiles, and modern radars. I want PDF readers to internalise why Finland chose to base its force on F-18 over F-16 like Western Europe did.
> 
> If they manage to hide their jets in time like Ukrainians did, they will be able to prevent RuAF from deep incursions for a long enough time for the West to back Finland.




Pretty sure Finland also has JASSM stealth cruise missiles that can strike deep into Russian territory. 

Finland is the last country Russia should f*** with.

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## nang2

mulj said:


> Remebrance is cheap, blood is expenisve.


Cheap remembrance helps you prevent wasting expensive blood. Think about how those Ukrainians who died fighting with Nazis would feel when they find out neo-Nazis are crawling all over Ukraine now.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Lets talk about the future, the question is now not whether the next Russian adventure will be, but when.
> 
> One we now know for sure, Russians keep betting on very risky adventures every 3-4 years regardless of the reality on the ground.
> 
> People now say that punching Pussolini in the face now will set them back for a long time. It's damn wrong. The timeline for them will only accelerate.
> 
> Defence people in the West still don't get the logic of regimes like China, or Russia


If I have to say, this is just like the first time we were in Iraq back in 90.

What the west does not understand is that, by not going all the way, with all the self-impose restriction, your enemy will not see your act as noble, but instead will be looked at as weakness. 

What we need is to make sure Russia no longer have the capability to make another war like that. But that have to be done step by step, first by not letting this go. 

regimes like China or Russia only understand power, the west only care about how to look good, but war can never fought good and clean, if you know what I mean....


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## dbc

jhungary said:


> Did I mentioned that* I WAS IN KYIV* for almost the entire April??
> 
> The commander of the 95th Air Assault Brigade (The defender of Kyiv) is a VERY GOOD FRIEND OF MINE, I was invited by him to train the Territorial Defence Force in Kyiv and I have fought with him in Iraq when he was a Captain. I know multiple people living in Ukraine that fled the war in first day, I know enough people from both side of the aisle to know what both side feel. Hell, i even dated an Ukrainian once.
> 
> So, no, it was YOU who sitting comfy at your own home and talk about how a country invade another country and then blame the country that being invaded. If you want to blame Ukraine, go fight with Russia, I am pretty sure you will meet some the the guy I trained. Otherwise, don't sit here and pretend you know shit about Ukraine from the "Colleague" of yours.



I don’t think you‘re going to convince him G. From his perspective, Ukraine should just roll over and acquiesce, they have no rights - not even the right to exist as a nation. Of course, he will completely change his mind when Ukraine is replaced with Pakistan or Bangladesh. Now, imagine India is Russia and Bangladesh is Ukraine. 

Were Bangladesh or Pakistan to threaten to join a Chinese union or security alliance - is India justified in invading Bangladesh? Absolutely NOT!

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## Viet

nang2 said:


> Cheap remembrance helps you prevent wasting expensive blood. Think about how those Ukrainians who died fighting with Nazis would feel when they find out neo-Nazis are crawling all over Ukraine now.


There is a chinese sage: if you see ghosts everywhere the you are probably a ghost yourself. In your case, you see nazi everywhere you probably a Nazi.


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## mulj

nang2 said:


> Cheap remembrance helps you prevent wasting expensive blood. Think about how those Ukrainians who died fighting with Nazis would feel when they find out neo-Nazis are crawling all over Ukraine now.


In russian case it is almost comical as their society and armed formations are infested with same fringe people. All that charade is just lame exuse like WMD in Iraq.


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## nang2

mulj said:


> In russian case it is almost comical as their society and armed formations are infested with same fringe people. All that charade is just lame exuse like WMD in Iraq.


Even Putin didn't deny there are Nazis in Russia but they are fringe people as you said, not mainstream. As of their armed formations, show me any proof of any Russian soldiers/officers proudly showing off Nazi symbols like those Ukrainians do. In Ukrainians, those Nazis are, though not majority, but welding mainstream power because they are armed and they don't hesitate in using violence against anyone who is opposed to them, including their president.

Before this year, even mainstream western media had noticed the Nazi problem in Ukraine. Now, they are hushed up because it is such an inconvenient truth.

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## mulj

nang2 said:


> Even Putin didn't deny there are Nazis in Russia but they are fringe people as you said, not mainstream. As of their armed formations, show me any proof of any Russian soldiers/officers proudly showing off Nazi symbols like those Ukrainians do. In Ukrainians, those Nazis are, though not majority, but welding mainstream power because they are armed and they don't hesitate in using violence against anyone who is opposed to them, including their president.


Find some wagner pics and background.


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## jhungary

dbc said:


> I don’t think you‘re going to convince him G. From his perspective, Ukraine should just roll over and acquiesce, they have no rights - not even the right to exist as a nation. Of course, he will completely change his mind when Ukraine is replaced with Pakistan or Bangladesh. Now, imagine India is Russia and Bangladesh is Ukraine.
> 
> Were Bangladesh or Pakistan to threaten to join a Chinese union or security alliance - is India justified in invading Bangladesh? Absolutely NOT!


Not trying to convince him. I am talking to people who will read that exchange. 

These people have their mind messed up and it's beyond reason with, I mean, whoever buy what Putin is selling tend to be that type. The thing that annoy me the most is that these people who don't know the ground situation and they just took whatever or whoever fed him. 

If I let that go, people read his post would have formulated in the same way. Sometime people need to know what the ground reality is. That's how you deal with misinformation.


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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> Even Putin didn't deny there are Nazis in Russia but they are fringe people as you said, not mainstream. As of their armed formations, show me any proof of any Russian soldiers/officers proudly showing off Nazi symbols like those Ukrainians do. In Ukrainians, those Nazis are, though not majority, but welding mainstream power because they are armed and they don't hesitate in using violence against anyone who is opposed to them, including their president.
> 
> Before this year, even mainstream western media had noticed the Nazi problem in Ukraine. Now, they are hushed up because it is such an inconvenient truth.


You apparently did not watch the Russian Victory day parade......They are wearing a very familiar "Z" arm band that remind all of us of something...I will let you be the judge.....









'Russia goes full Nazi' Putin's army paraded around Moscow with eerily familiar Z armband


RUSSIAN troops have been spotted marching with the letter Z emblazoned on their uniforms for their Victory Parade.




www.express.co.uk





Then you have this DPR guy wearing Death Skull being awarded a medal for killing Ukrainian "Nazi", speaking of Irony









Pro-Russian fighter with Nazi patches gets medal for killing 'Nazis'


A pro-Russian soldier can be seen in a video wearing an emblem used by Nazi Germany's Waffen-SS and a symbol of interlocking triangles from Norse mythology commonly used by neo-Nazis.




www.newsweek.com





And there are this captured Russian Soldier with ID shown with a giant Nazi Tattoo on his back...







That's just 3 minutes of google search typing "Russian Army Nazi"

Look, every country have Neo Nazi, but then that is that country problem, I mean would it be okay if Israel start invading every skinhead neighbourhood in London because of those Neo Nazi?

And well, Ukraine Neo Nazi problem is no where near "Mainstream" it have a very small cult following....explain to me how it is "Mainstream" over there??

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## gambit

Corax said:


> I see similarities in both Russian and US armed forces when they are forced to fight wars of attrition against an enemy using dissimilar tactics and weapons, especially if it's a proxy war being supported by an apposing super power, i.e. Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan (both US and USSR invasions), and now Ukraine.
> 
> However, one key difference between you and the Russians is that the Russians still have a tougher stomach for losses and attrition warfare after WWII, you can't stomach that anymore, as demonstrated by your invasions in Vietnam, the Middle East, and Afghanistan.
> 
> If the Iraqis and the Taliban were given the same amount of support as you're given the Ukrainians, your defeats there would have been more bloody and quicker. You can only stomach a fight with weak ragtag enemies whose only real weapon is time and attrition.
> 
> The Russians will happily destroy themselves rather than admit defeat and run away, and that's what you're exploiting, given that Austin has openly admitted it.


You avoided my question, so I will ask again: Do you consider the US military a 'loser' military?


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## nang2

mulj said:


> Find some wagner pics and background.


They are more like hired guns for Russia. Just like how USA uses terrorists to fight wars against Russians. They are scums but they don't dictate political agenda of the country that employs them.



jhungary said:


> You apparently did not watch the Russian Victory day parade......They are wearing a very familiar "Z" arm band that remind all of us of something...I will let you be the judge.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Russia goes full Nazi' Putin's army paraded around Moscow with eerily familiar Z armband
> 
> 
> RUSSIAN troops have been spotted marching with the letter Z emblazoned on their uniforms for their Victory Parade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.express.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then you have this DPR guy wearing Death Skull being awarded a medal for killing Ukrainian "Nazi", speaking of Irony
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pro-Russian fighter with Nazi patches gets medal for killing 'Nazis'
> 
> 
> A pro-Russian soldier can be seen in a video wearing an emblem used by Nazi Germany's Waffen-SS and a symbol of interlocking triangles from Norse mythology commonly used by neo-Nazis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newsweek.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And there are this captured Russian Soldier with ID shown with a giant Nazi Tattoo on his back...
> 
> View attachment 843143
> 
> 
> That's just 3 minutes of google search typing "Russian Army Nazi"
> 
> Look, every country have Neo Nazi, but then that is that country problem, I mean would it be okay if Israel start invading every skinhead neighbourhood in London because of those Neo Nazi?
> 
> And well, Ukraine Neo Nazi problem is no where near "Mainstream" it have a very small cult following....explain to me how it is "Mainstream" over there??


Israel would if those skinheads start to kill Jews.

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## Corax

gambit said:


> You avoided my question, so I will ask again: Do you consider the US military a 'loser' military?



Define what you mean by 'loser'? I know you Americans like to see everything in black and white, but that isn't reality.

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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> They are more like hired guns for Russia. Just like how USA uses terrorists to fight wars against Russians. They are scums but they don't dictate political agenda of the country that employs them.
> 
> 
> Israel would if those skinheads start to kill Israelis.


You do know EVERY JEW are Israelis, jews are always welcome to settle back in their fatherland. Right? So when do we expect Israeli start Denaification of UK or Canada?


----------



## gambit

Corax said:


> Define what you mean by 'loser'? *I know you Americans like to see everything in black and white*, but that isn't reality.




But *YOU* were the one who listed the series of wars that we 'lost' and cowardly implying that the US military is a 'loser' military. Now am asking you for an explicit answer and you dodged. First, it was black and white, now it ain't. Make up your mind.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Wergeland said:


> Ukraine was infiltrated by USA , Poland and UK. It was steadily moved away from being a Russian friendly to a anti-Russian land. Ukraine could have choosen a neutral stance and gotten away with it but it went full retard.
> 
> Using your own logic. Why did not Russia attack Ukraine until now? Ukraine was independent since end of cold war. The answer is simple; Ukraine wasnt a threat to Russia until mid 2010s when all that slowly started to changed.


Russia attacked Ukraine in 2014.


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## Corax

gambit said:


> But *YOU* were the one who listed the series of wars that we 'lost' and cowardly implying that the US military is a 'loser' military. Now am asking you for an explicit answer and you dodged. First, it was black and white, now it ain't. Make up your mind.



No, you need to go back to my posts and learn to read. I stated the wars you lost, and the reasons why you lost, similar to how the Russians lost previous wars and could lose in Ukraine. Or do you consider that the US 'won' every war it's ever fought?

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> You do know EVERY JEW are Israelis, jews are always welcome to settle back in their fatherland. Right? So when do we expect Israeli start Denaification of UK or Canada?


When British or Canadian Nazis kill Jews with the sanction/protection of their governments.


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## gambit

Corax said:


> I stated the wars you lost, and the reasons why you lost,...


And that list is long enough to make a definitive judgement, right? So say it: Is the US military a 'loser' military based on *YOUR* judgement?


----------



## Soldier35

Rare footage of the explosion of the Russian Iskander missile in close proximity to Ukrainian soldiers appeared






Footage of the sortie of the Su-35 fighter in Ukraine. The Su-35 fighter is armed with R-73, R-77 short and medium-range air-to-air missiles, as well as Kh-31P anti-radar missiles






Many battles now in Ukraine have become positional due to the huge number of fortified areas created literally in settlements over 8 years. In this situation, the role of artillery has become more important than ever. One of the key roles in the work of Russian artillery in Ukraine is assigned to the 152-mm Msta-S self-propelled artillery mount. At an arms exhibition in 1993 in Abu Dhabi, Msta-S hit 38 out of 40 targets at a distance of 15 km.

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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> When British or Canadian Nazis kill Jews with the sanction/protection of their governments.


LOL, you do know which government killed 2nd most Jews in the world behind Germany in WW2, right? That's Russia. In Fact Russian prosecution of Jewish is probably a bit more extreme than Nazi Germany during WW2.....That's mostly because it last a long longer than Germany..........





__





Antisemitism in the Soviet Union - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





So, according to you, does that mean Israeli have the right to attack Russia??


----------



## Corax

gambit said:


> And that list is long enough to make a definitive judgement, right? So say it: Is the US military a 'loser' military based on *YOUR* judgement?



In the same way YOU are making a judgement on the Russian military based purely on ONE account of Ukraine?!


----------



## Vergennes

LMAO

@F-22Raptor 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524407778227503104

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524397146480549890

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> LOL, you do know which government killed 2nd most Jews in the world behind Germany in WW2, right? That's Russia. In Fact Russian prosecution of Jewish is probably a bit more extreme than Nazi Germany during WW2.....That's mostly because it last a long longer than Germany..........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Antisemitism in the Soviet Union - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, according to you, does that mean Israeli have the right to attack Russia??


Yes! A very sounding yes! Whether they can use that right to do it is a different story. This situation happens multiple times throughout the history.

During the boxer movement in the late Qing Dynasty, many foreign missionaries were killed and the government didn't punish the murders. A coalition of 8 countries was formed to invade China and forced it to denounce and punish the boxer movement. This is an act of powerful countries, those who can pull it off, like Russia is doing.

In 1965, 300K ethnic Chinese were murdered in Indonesia. No one was brought to justice. China was powerless so she didn't intervene militarily. Only took in some refugees, those who could get out safely. This is an act of a weak country. It forever left a deep scar in Chinese memory.


----------



## jhungary

nang2 said:


> Yes! A very sounding yes! Whether they can use that right to do it is a different story. This situation happens multiple times throughout the history.
> 
> During the boxer movement in the late Qing Dynasty, many foreign missionaries were killed and the government didn't punish the murders. A coalition of 8 countries was formed to invade China and forced it to denounce and punish the boxer movement. This is an act of powerful countries, those who can pull it off, like Russia is doing.
> 
> In 1965, 300K ethnic Chinese were murdered in Indonesia. No one was brought to justice. China was powerless so she didn't intervene militarily. Only took in some refugees, those who could get out safely. This is an act of a weak country. It forever left a deep scar in Chinese memory.


Dude, you are quite delusion to think Chinese government can do or should do anything to Indonesian Chinese. This is something even modern day China wouldn't do. So what if NYPD start arresting Russian-American in Brighton Beach en-masse, does that mean Russia have casus belli to invade New York?? How about does that make Canada or US casus belli to invade China because Chinese is holding American or Canadian as political prisoner??

What you are saying literally ignore the concept of sovereignty. Those were not your people, nor was it your land. You want Chinese Government to interfere with the prosecution and murder of Ethnic Chinese in Indonesia? What give them the right to do it? This is not about being weak or being powerful, this is being out of international norm.

Same thing with Ethnic Russian in Ukraine. They don't have the right to invade another country, that's how they F'ed up the entire war. Now for what? 2 villages and the rest of the Russian are going to eat shit for the next decade??


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## nang2

jhungary said:


> Dude, you are quite delusion to think Chinese government can do or should do anything to Indonesian Chinese. This is something even modern day China wouldn't do. So what if NYPD start arresting Russian-American in Brighton Beach en-masse, does that mean Russia have casus belli to invade New York?? How about does that make Canada or US casus belli to invade China because Chinese is holding American or Canadian as political prisoner??
> 
> What you are saying literally ignore the concept of sovereignty. Those were not your people, nor was it your land. You want Chinese Government to interfere with the prosecution and murder of Ethnic Chinese in Indonesia? What give them the right to do it? This is not about being weak or being powerful, this is being out of international norm.
> 
> Same thing with Ethnic Russian in Ukraine. They don't have the right to invade another country, that's how they F'ed up the entire war. Now for what? 2 villages and the rest of the Russian are going to eat shit for the next decade??


Think about what US would do when another country is killing Americans with its government's approval. Need I remind you that it is the exact reason why US attacked Afghanistan after 9/11?

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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> Think about what US would do when another country is killing Americans with its government's approval. Need I remind you that it is the exact reason why US attacked Afghanistan after 9/11?


Dude, they Killed AMERICAN in AMERICA........This is not they killed American in the UK or some place else. Did US start a war with Yemen when they bomb Manchester in the UK??

If the Ukrainian start killing Russian IN RUSSIA, I will say go for it. But then you are talking about Ukrainian killing Russian Speaking Ukrainian in Ukraine. Even if that's true, what's that have to do with Russia?

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> Dude, they Killed AMERICAN in AMERICA........This is not they killed American in the UK or some place else. Did US start a war with Yemen when they bomb Manchester in the UK??
> 
> If the Ukrainian start killing Russian IN RUSSIA, I will say go for it. But then you are talking about Ukrainian killing Russian Speaking Ukrainian in Ukraine. Even if that's true, what's that have to do with Russia?


Well, lucky Americans since they don't have an ethnic identity, which applies to Australians, too, but other nations do.


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> Dude, you are quite delusion to think Chinese government can do or should do anything to Indonesian Chinese. This is something even modern day China wouldn't do. So what if NYPD start arresting Russian-American in Brighton Beach en-masse, does that mean Russia have casus belli to invade New York?? How about does that make Canada or US casus belli to invade China because Chinese is holding American or Canadian as political prisoner??
> 
> What you are saying literally ignore the concept of sovereignty. Those were not your people, nor was it your land. You want Chinese Government to interfere with the prosecution and murder of Ethnic Chinese in Indonesia? What give them the right to do it? This is not about being weak or being powerful, this is being out of international norm.
> 
> Same thing with Ethnic Russian in Ukraine. They don't have the right to invade another country, that's how they F'ed up the entire war. Now for what? 2 villages and the rest of the Russian are going to eat shit for the next decade??


Putin’s Russia does not respect the concept of sovereignty. He means every country that even hosts a single Russian falls under kremlin jurisdiction. Voila, Russian tanks can roll in to liberate those oppressed tourists from Nazi.
Luckily the last russian tourist left Vietnam otherwise we are doomed.


----------



## jhungary

nang2 said:


> Well, lucky Americans since they don't have an ethnic identity, which applies to Australians, too, but other nations do.


I don't think most of the country do, even Chinese, ask any Chinese-Australian or Chinese-American, they will almost all tell you they are Australian or American. 

Just because you look the same does not mean you are the same.


----------



## Indos

nang2 said:


> Yes! A very sounding yes! Whether they can use that right to do it is a different story. This situation happens multiple times throughout the history.
> 
> During the boxer movement in the late Qing Dynasty, many foreign missionaries were killed and the government didn't punish the murders. A coalition of 8 countries was formed to invade China and forced it to denounce and punish the boxer movement. This is an act of powerful countries, those who can pull it off, like Russia is doing.
> 
> In 1965, 300K ethnic Chinese were murdered in Indonesia. No one was brought to justice. China was powerless so she didn't intervene militarily. Only took in some refugees, those who could get out safely. This is an act of a weak country. It forever left a deep scar in Chinese memory.



DONT TALK BULSHIT, YOU ARE AGAINST WEST IN HERE BUT USE THE WEST NARATIVE ( wikipedia editor) IN INDONESIA CASE

LOL 1965 IS NOT ABOUT CHINESE, BUT COMMUNIST, 99 % VICTIMS ARE NATIVE INDONESIANS


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> Putin’s Russia does not respect the concept of sovereignty. He means every country that even hosts a single Russian falls under kremlin jurisdiction.


Well, had an interesting conversation a couple of days ago with a High Ranking Ukrainian official, He didn't see it your way, he think Putin wanted to claw everything used to belong to Soviet Union back to his control. And his only regret is his predecessor failed because they admitted defeat....

Me? My only regret for the last 40 days in Ukraine is that I don't get to buy the "Russian Ship F Off" stamp, it was sold out when I was free and went to a Kyiv post office....


----------



## nang2

jhungary said:


> I don't think most of the country do, even Chinese, ask any Chinese-Australian or Chinese-American, they will almost all tell you they are Australian or American.
> 
> Just because you look the same does not mean you are the same.


Ask them on which box they mark the cross when they fill up the census report on ethnicity.



Indos said:


> DONT TALK BULSHIT, YOU ARE AGAINST WEST IN HERE BUT USE THE WEST NARATIVE ( wikipedia editor) IN INDONESIA CASE
> 
> LOL 1965 IS NOT ABOUT CHINESE, BUT COMMUNIST, 99 % VICTIMS ARE NATIVE INDONESIANS


Yes, simply by assuming Chinese are communists. Convenient, isn't it?


----------



## Indos

nang2 said:


> Yes, simply by assuming Chinese are communists. Convenient, isn't it?


 Another bulshit on you, learn to read history dude

Most communist in Indonesia is actually villagers, farmers


----------



## jhungary

nang2 said:


> Ask them on which box they mark the cross when they fill up the census report on ethnicity.
> 
> 
> Yes, simply by assuming Chinese are communists. Convenient, isn't it?


They don't have "Chinese" as ethnicity in US or Australian census.......

In the US, it's only have the following category the last time I did one of thsoe census

Hispanic/Latino
Indian/Native
Asian
Black/African
White/Non-Hispanic White
Hawaii'an/Islander
Other

In Australian Census, that question is asked in a very board sense, It's Either Black, White, Asian, Pacific Islander or Aboriginal or Torren Strait. But then they will ask your country of birth and your parent's country of birth.


----------



## Indos

jhungary said:


> They don't have "Chinese" as ethnicity in US or Australian census.......
> 
> In the US, it's only have the following category the last time I did one of thsoe census
> 
> Hispanic/Latino
> Indian/Native
> Asian
> Black/African
> White/Non-Hispanic White
> Hawaii'an/Islander
> Other
> 
> In Australian Census, that question is asked in a very board sense, It's Either Black, White, Asian, Pacific Islander or Aboriginal or Torren Strait. But then they will ask your country of birth and your parent's country of birth.



That Chinese Canadian dude is wellknown as debating like women, you will not win debating with him even by stating facts and logic, better leave the discussion


----------



## beast89

The SC said:


> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/coope125/status/1523976594875895809


Damn RIP


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> Well, had an interesting conversation a couple of days ago with a High Ranking Ukrainian official, He didn't see it your way, he think Putin wanted to claw everything used to belong to Soviet Union back to his control. And his only regret is his predecessor failed because they admitted defeat....
> 
> Me? My only regret for the last 40 days in Ukraine is that I don't get to buy the "Russian Ship F Off" stamp, it was sold out when I was free and went to a Kyiv post office....


Eh too bad. Ukraine can print more such best selling stamps. Putin is paranoid. He is an ex spy. And as such he distrusts everything, everybody. He is said he avoids modern western medicine. He avoids modern telecommunications. He fears he can be poisoned, can be wiretapped. Despite being lived in Germany for a long period he speaks very bad German.


----------



## jhungary

Indos said:


> That Chinese Canadian dude is wellknown as debating like women, you will not win debating with him even by stating facts and logic, better leave the discussion


lol, i know 



Viet said:


> Eh too bad. Ukraine can print more such best selling stamps. Putin is paranoid. He is an ex spy. And as such he distrusts everything, everybody. He is said he avoids modern western medicine. He avoids modern telecommunications. He fears he can be poisoned, can be wiretapped.


Yeah, that was a big thing when I was in Ukraine. People all lined up and try to buy those stamp. I reckon if the Ukrainian Postal Service start selling them internationally for war bond they would be able to raise quite a lot of money in a short amount of time.

But meh, well, I may go back for another trip sometime in the July. Probably I will be able to get it then??

Putin was a KGB man, he wouldn't trust anything as far as he knows, I too dont trust a lot of thing and I never use anything that can identify me in public.......


----------



## beast89

Bengal71 said:


> I totally agree with this. Trump also seeems to be a very war averse president.
> 
> I actually like Trump except for his action of banning visa for Muslims and moving US embassy to Jerusalem. But I think it's not his idea, it's Jared Kushner who influenced him for that.


Kushner 100% israel firster and mossad agent

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Yes. Nations should act what is best for their nation's interest.
> 
> What is so good and the point of participating in an alliance that antagonized another one, in this case a nuclear superpower and eventually discovered Finland will be the first in line of fire?
> 
> From the 1945 till now Finland did not have any major issue with her security with Russia.
> 
> Any dispute is always settled without any conflict.
> 
> That is what the flaw democracy of the West brings them.
> 
> Closer to war. Ukraine is a good example. Her infrastructure, industries and cities are mainly destroyed.


Yes and if russia tries that in finland soon, that will be the end of them.


----------



## Wergeland

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Russia attacked Ukraine in 2014.



Yes, like i said after Ukraine became anti-russian.
Throwing out an elected government through paid nationalist elements, who then systematically began anti-Russian policies against eastern Ukrainian. A part of Ukraine that was/is overwhenmingly pro-Russian and has Russian majority provinces, that voted for the government that was removed from power by foreign interference.

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## Daylamite Warrior

Wergeland said:


> The Crusades had nothing to do with Christianity or the Holy Land. It was a way to extend Papal legitmacy and power, creating a Frankish bridgehead in Levant and outright getting rid of unruly and problematic peasantry. There was even a childrens crusade, were most of them ended up being sold to slavery.
> 
> Richard Lionheart forexample was arrested when he arrived back in Europe and died after being humiliated by his own christian bethren.


Although I largely agree with what you wrote, to say Christianity is not a factor is again a ridiculous revionist statement. There was no need for a Frankish bridgehead in the Levant, it just happened to be an added bonus of invasion.


----------



## thetutle

Vergennes said:


> Russia doesn't actually have the capabilities to invade a country like Finland where they have strong armed reserves,better equipped and organized than those in Ukraine and a strong sense of civil defense.
> 
> And with what forces do you actually expect the Russians to attack Finland ? They are stretched thin already in Ukraine where a majority of their ground forces BTGs are mobilized,all those garrisons near Finland have been emptied....


While Finland is undoubtedly very well organised, if russia attacked with 160 BTG's Finland would we well and truly screwed. 

They would lose a massive amount of civilians and soldiers. It would be catastrophic. Its only a small country, to lose 30k or 40k people would be shattering. They would of course be armed by the west but ti would be very bad. 

Naturally, when they join NATO, its all over. they can sleep at night again. I hope they do it soon.


----------



## Daylamite Warrior

Wergeland said:


> Thats what you got wrong. No one here is ignoring the Greek and Roman contribution. Quite contrary. But still the Western civillization is not the same as the Classical civilization. As simple as that.


No I got nothing wrong. Classical civilization can be grouped to regions, and Greek and Roman civilization is part and parcel of western civilization. They are the same but at different ages. Simple as that.


----------



## jhungary

Wergeland said:


> Yes, like i said after Ukraine baecame anti-russian.
> Throwing out an elected government through paid nationalist elements, who then systematically began anti-Russian policies against eastern Ukrainian. A part of Ukraine that was/is overwhenmingly pro-Russian and has Russian majority provinces, that voted for the government that was removed from power by foreign interference.


Another point showing you know nothing about what happened in 2014.

First of all, Yanukovych government was NOT elected. It was formed after they made a deal with Tymoshenko's fatherland party. Under Ukrainian constitution, President must be elected with over 51% of vote in the second round, Yanukovych did NOT have that, he have 48.6%, what Yanukovych did not also have is Rada support. with Yanukovych's party only have 30% of the seat, fatherland have 25%.

A deal was struck between Yanukovych and Tymoshenko for Yanukovych to ratified EU ascension agreement within 3 years in order for Tymoshenko to align her and her party with Yanukovych.

Problem is, Yanukovych did not ratified the EU agreement, not even that, he throw Tymoshenko in prison. That's when Fatherland withdraw from the deal they had with Yanukovych. By the time Maidan happened, the Rada already had dissolved and an early election already had called. That is when Yanukovych bug out.

There weren't a Pro-Russian government in Ukraine since 1999 that is when Kuchma was President. In 2004, the Ukrainian elected Yushchenkoas president, whom was poisoned by Kremlin, if anything, it was widely believe that Kremlin was interfering Ukraine politic by installing Yanukovych as President, which was largely believe as a result of Election fraud.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

Russians bringing figures out of their bottom


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524208856263540739


----------



## Daylamite Warrior

jhungary said:


> If the Ukrainian start killing Russian IN RUSSIA, I will say go for it. But then you are talking about Ukrainian killing Russian Speaking Ukrainian in Ukraine. Even if that's true, what's that have to do with Russia?


It's happening on Russia's border so they had to act. Why did NATO interviene in Kosovo? No Americans were killed, nor was it on American soil, yet the US got involved. Therefore, simply on humanitarian grounds, Russia has a right and duty to get involved, then you have the fact its ethnic Russians getting killed and happening on its border which makes it clear cut.



Indos said:


> DONT TALK BULSHIT, YOU ARE AGAINST WEST IN HERE BUT USE THE WEST NARATIVE ( wikipedia editor) IN INDONESIA CASE
> 
> LOL 1965 IS NOT ABOUT CHINESE, BUT COMMUNIST, 99 % VICTIMS ARE NATIVE INDONESIANS


Who says you cant be anti-west and use a similar narrative they use? Why is everything so black and white with you? It's like saying a murderer is wrong if he says 1+1=2 simply because they murdered someone.


----------



## Wergeland

Daylamite Warrior said:


> Although I largely agree with what you wrote, to say Christianity is not a factor is again a ridiculous revionist statement. There was no need for a Frankish bridgehead in the Levant, it just happened to be an added bonus of invasion.



Christianity played a motivating factor but the real cause of Crusades were political not religious. Religion was just a tool used by the Church and Kings.

Christianity itself had no concept similar to Jihad, so the Lords and Pope took a muslim concept and made a christian variant. 

The Levant was High civilization when the crusaders entered Jerusalem. There are countless sources that describe how barbaric and primitive Franks (thats what jews and muslims called the crusaders) behaved. Crusaders were there to loot.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> While Finland is undoubtedly very well organised, if russia attacked with 160 BTG's Finland would we well and truly screwed.
> 
> They would lose a massive amount of civilians and soldiers. It would be catastrophic. Its only a small country, to lose 30k or 40k people would be shattering. They would of course be armed by the west but ti would be very bad.
> 
> Naturally, when they join NATO, its all over. they can sleep at night again. I hope they do it soon.


Where would you march 160 BTG into Finland? Finnish/Russian border is long but they are laden with Forrest and Mountain. 

IT wasn't like Ukraine where you have a large opened area and straight down into town. The road to finland would be very armor unfriendly, which mean if Russian were to march troop into Finland, they either have to feed it piecemeal or have to do without armor. 

That would not be a good option for the Russian, let alone the fact that can they really raise another 160 BTG.

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## Viet

Ah cool

The EU foreign affair chief wants the money that is seized from Russian central bank, 300 billion USD, for reconstruction of Ukraine.






__





Russische Devisenreserven für den Wiederaufbau der Ukraine verwenden?


Der EU-Außenbeauftragte Borrell will das von der EU eingefrorene Guthaben der russischen Zentralbank verwenden, um die Kriegsfolgen in...




m.faz.net


----------



## jhungary

Daylamite Warrior said:


> It's happening on Russia's border so they had to act. Why did NATO interviene in Kosovo? No Americans were killed, nor was it on American soil, yet the US got involved. Therefore, simply on humanitarian grounds, Russia has a right and duty to get involved, then you have the fact its ethnic Russians getting killed and happening on its border which makes it clear cut.
> 
> 
> Who says you cant be anti-west and use a similar narrative they use? Why is everything so black and white with you? It's like saying a murderer is wrong if he says 1+1=2 simply because they murdered someone.


You do know KFOR is formed based on UN resolution 1244, right?

The US is involved because UN is involved. Russian also do not have any connection to it, then tell me why Russian is involved in Kosovo??

That is not the same dude. If Russia think that was a humanitarian crisis, they can raise the problem on UNSC, I don't think Russian invasion of Ukraine are sanctioned by United Nation......So, no, they have no right.


----------



## Wergeland

Daylamite Warrior said:


> No I got nothing wrong. Classical civilization can be grouped to regions, and Greek and Roman civilization is part and parcel of western civilization. They are the same but at different ages. Simple as that.



I understand what you mean.
But using that argument one can argue ancient Greece and therefore also Rome was a extention of Middle east or what academics call Nile-Oxus civilization. This geographic area encompasses Greece, Levant, Arabia, Mesopotamia, Egypt, Anatolia and Persia. They were all part of a interconnected area. Even to this day this is quite obvious.

The west was founded much later. Many consider the Merovingian dynasty as the awakening of the west as separate civilization.

Greece and Rome had much more trade and ciltural exchange with the middle east than it had with the area which later became the birthplace of the west.


----------



## Daylamite Warrior

Wergeland said:


> Christianity played a motivating factor but the real cause of Crusades were political not religious. Religion was just a tool used by the Church and Kings.
> 
> Christianity itself had no concept similar to Jihad, so the Lords and Pope took a muslim concept and made a christian variant.
> 
> The Levant was High civilization when the crusaders entered Jerusalem. There are countless sources that describe how barbaric and primitive Franks (thats what jews and muslims called the crusaders) behaved. Crusaders were there to loot.


So your initial statement that it had nothing to do with Christianity was a clear overstatement and innaccurate. Motivating factors are what govern something to be intrisically involved with any given matter.

Going to war is not a Muslim concept, throughout the Bible "jihad" is waged against idol worshippers, Jesus threatened the use of swords during his ministry and that Jesus will come and smite his enemies in Book of Revelation. Next you'll blame Muslims for why there is drought or why you forgot to buy the milk!

Firstly, the Franks called themselves Franks, and still do to this day. The Crusades were largely led by Frankish armies and kings, even English plantagenet kings were more Frankish that Saxon. Muslims had nothing to do with their etymology. And yes, looting has always been a part of invasions, that's a given but not the motivating factor for beginning the Crusades.


----------



## Paul2

jhungary said:


> If I have to say, this is just like the first time we were in Iraq back in 90.
> 
> What the west does not understand is that, by not going all the way, with all the self-impose restriction, your enemy will not see your act as noble, but instead will be looked at as weakness.
> 
> What we need is to make sure Russia no longer have the capability to make another war like that. But that have to be done step by step, first by not letting this go.
> 
> regimes like China or Russia only understand power, the west only care about how to look good, but war can never fought good and clean, if you know what I mean....



It's not about weakness/strongness. Saddam would've attacked Kuwait even if he knew ahead that he will lose. He didn't care about Iraq's debt, slant drilling, or anything.

His Baathists were in crisis, and a competing internal faction was about to spring into action. Losing half of Iraq's military was an acceptable price for Baathists to defeat internal dissenters (imaginary "Iranian spies".)

There was speculation whether Saddam was preparing to attack Iran on the eve of the Gulf War, and the world only found that he was going to Kuwait a one months before the invasion. Iran was a good ideological enemy, they were both heathens, and a republic. But Kuwait was even more convenient, since they were "Iranian spies," liberal, and they had a popular king, so they were triply the heathens, and as a bonus they had no military which could retaliate for real, unlike Iranians.

I put forward following argument, and will stand for it to the end: _"One party government like Iraq, Russia, China needs to fight. It requires a crisis to function." _9 times out of 10, if you see a country like China in a crisis, they made it themselves.

In the West, people think that Xi, Saddam, and Putin shot themselves in the foot, but in fact they shot into their internal enemies' foot. In China, or Russia, the head, and the foot are enemies.

In China, or Russia the party in power has 2 enemies. The first one is everybody who don't like them, and the second one is manufactured to claim that the first one is the second.

CPC always has an enemy to point a finger on, and say we are fighting them. "Work for us, or you are with the enemy", or "those Scary Taiwanese will come, and kill you." If they don't do that, nobody moves a finger in this system.



The deeper reason for crisises in totalitarian states is always that, and things like economy, "actual wars," nationalism is a cover. Mao claimed that GLF was sabotaged because of capitalists, and thus he purged capitalist spies. Coincidentally, these capitalist spies all happened to be more hardcore communists than Mao. Similarly, Deng later attacked Vietnam because CPV were "corrupt capitalist roaders," and when he lost, he went on "opening up" to outdo them when all more hardcore commies fell on their own swords.


----------



## Daylamite Warrior

Wergeland said:


> I understand what you mean.
> But using that argument one can argue ancient Greece and therefore also Rome was a extention of Middle east or what academics call Nile-Oxus civilization. This geographic area encompasses Greece, Levant, Arabia, Mesopotamia, Egypt, Anatolia and Persia. They were all part of a interconnected area.
> 
> The west was founded much later. Many consider the merivingian dynasty as the awakening of the west as separate civilization.
> 
> Greece and Rome had much more trade and ciltural exchange with the middle east than it had with the area which later became the birthplace of the west.


Well they kind of were extensions in terms of knowledge and transfer of civilisation. It's not exactly a myth that the fertile cresent and civilisation began in the middle east. They were interconnected, but that doesnt mean they were the same. Both genetically and culturally they were different. Oxus-Nile started off from the Persian Empire which governed a lot of latter empires operated. However things that are unique to western civilisation such as democracy, expansionism and fascism is found in Greek and Roman empires, not so much in Eastern civilisations.

Having trade with a different people doesnt mean you are the same as them. The fact is Rome dominated most of what one would consider the west, with the exception of America. The west was founded with Greece and Rome, nothing you can say will change that.


----------



## Wergeland

Daylamite Warrior said:


> So your initial statement that it had nothing to do with Christianity was a clear overstatement and innaccurate. Motivating factors are what govern something to be intrisically involved with any given matter.
> 
> Going to war is not a Muslim concept, throughout the Bible "jihad" is waged against idol worshippers, Jesus threatened the used of swords during his ministry and that Jesus will come and smite his enemies in Book of Revelation. Next you'll blame Muslims for why there is drought or why you forgot to buy the milk!
> 
> Firstly, the Franks called themselves Franks, and still do to this day. The Crusades were largely led by Frankish armies and kings, even English plantagenet kings were more Frankish that Saxon. Muslims had nothing to do with their etymology. And yes, looting has always been a part of invasions, that's a given but not the motivating factor for beginning the Crusades.



Dude you are debating with a muslim.

Muslims called all crusaders Franks, even though they could be german, scandinavian, italian or english.

Yes my initial comment was an exageration to show that crusades were primarly a political tool. Christiany had no doctrine and still has no doctrine that is equal to jihad. Crusade is a papal invention. Thats dosent mean christianity dosent have non-pacifistic concepts. Its just very different from Islamic concepts.


----------



## Wergeland

Daylamite Warrior said:


> The west was founded with Greece and Rome, nothing you can say will change that.



We then have to agree to disgree. 
Using that argument we could say all human came from Africa or that all civilizations except the Chinese, was founded in Sumer.


----------



## Daylamite Warrior

Wergeland said:


> Dude you are debating with a muslim.
> 
> Muslims called all crusaders muslim, even though they could be german, scandinavian, italian or english.
> 
> Yes my initial comment was an exageration to show that crusades were primarly a political tool. Christiany had no doctrine and still has no doctrine that is equal to jihad. Crusade is a papal invention. Thats dosent mean christianity dosent have non-pacifistic concept. Its just very different from Islamic concepts.


I dont think your faith has any impact with the inaccuracies of your comments. Please dont play that card on me.

Did you mean Muslims called Crusaders "Franks"? Well, in case you didnt know most of crusaders were led by Franks. It's like how people called the invasion of Iraq as the US-led invasion. The Arabs dont use the suffix of "-led" so they just use the term Frank, which is what they were.

So you accept you made stuff up to make your argument sound better? Thats not how an honest Muslim should behave. It was not primarily a political tool, not when you had Muslims fighting Christians, and occupying old Christian land lands. There is definitely a religion angle here which you're desperately brushing under the carpet.

You need to read the Bible more then, God literally told the Israelites to wage war on the idol worshippers of canaanite, Jesus calls to arms on Luke 21:35-38, and he will come to fight his enemies in Book of Revelation. Assuming you really are a Muslim, you'd know the God of Moses and Jesus is the same as Abraham, so the concept of jihad was always there.



Wergeland said:


> We then have to agree to disgree.
> Using that argument we could say all human came from Africa or that all civilizations except the Chinese, was founded in Sumer.


Yeah we disagree, for sure, and a total false analogy, yet again. Rome and Greece are relatively recent in comparison to the theorised spread of humans from Africa. Do you have a verse or hadeeth that says Adam came from Africa, or do you just play the Muslim card when you're backed in a corner.



jhungary said:


> You do know KFOR is formed based on UN resolution 1244, right?
> 
> The US is involved because UN is involved. Russian also do not have any connection to it, then tell me why Russian is involved in Kosovo??
> 
> That is not the same dude. If Russia think that was a humanitarian crisis, they can raise the problem on UNSC, I don't think Russian invasion of Ukraine are sanctioned by United Nation......So, no, they have no right.


Since when did UN dictate how a super power acts? Does Israel listen to the UN? Did US listen to UN when it invaded Iraq?

They do have the right, for the reasons I just mentioned. Russians being massacred on their border. They did go to UNSC but were politically vetoed by the US, and since UN has no teeth or backbone then law MUST be taken into one's own hands.


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Where would you march 160 BTG into Finland? Finnish/Russian border is long but they are laden with Forrest and Mountain.
> 
> IT wasn't like Ukraine where you have a large opened area and straight down into town. The road to finland would be very armor unfriendly, which mean if Russian were to march troop into Finland, they either have to feed it piecemeal or have to do without armor.
> 
> That would not be a good option for the Russian, let alone the fact that can they really raise another 160 BTG.


What the Russians would do is send the BTG's along the main road. Probably won't work out well for them, but the cost to Finland would be massive.


----------



## Ali_Baba

Now Ukraine 'destroys £3million Russian T-90 tank' using £400 rockets dropped from a home-made drone​








Ukraine 'destroys £3million Russian T-90 tank'


Aerorozvidka - Ukraine's drone warfare unit - released video today which it claims shows a Russian T-90 tank being destroyed by two rockets dropped on it from above.




www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## Indos

Daylamite Warrior said:


> Who says you cant be anti-west and use a similar narrative they use? Why is everything so black and white with you? It's like saying a murderer is wrong if he says 1+1=2 simply because they murdered someone.



Black and white ? Oh Ok now you as Muslim Iranian believe more on some Western narrative that is not based on real history than what Muslim Indonesian historian had stated regarding 1965-66 communist purge in Indonesia ?

Did you even read Quran saying we should be careful on what non Muslim say ? There is credible Western historian and there are Western writers/journalist who just make assumption

Communist party in Indonesia is the fourth largest based on 1955 election and similar like in China, mostly they are farmer. Chinese ethnic in Indonesia is not that much and majority oppose Communist since majority of Chinese in Indonesia are Christian and live in big Cities. 1965-1966 is all about Islam vs Communist. That is not about anti Chinese sentiment. Think first before you write in supporting that dude


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524467568840482817

Russian losses are now over 3,600


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## lightning F57

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The no-fly zones were established to protect minorities from Saddams genocidal attacks on Shias and Kurds.
> Gulf War II is legally the same war as Gulf War I since there was no peace agreement, only a ceasefire in a war started by Iraq. A ceasefire holds as long as both sides are happy with the arrangement.
> 
> The invasion of Iraq resulted in the trial and hanging of the illegal coupmaker.
> Iraq is now a sovereign country that elects its leaders.
> 
> Russia is invading Iraq to destroy the nation and annex its territory.
> 
> it aint the same thing.


Complete drivel....Ukraine is the same situation with Russia its part of their strategic objectives to stop Ukraine from getting closer to NATO, Iraq was US way of getting rid of Saddam to make a government more friendly with them. Atleast be consistent, this is issue with Russia cry wolfers.


----------



## Vergennes

AMAZING


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524474300874604545

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Love Love:
1


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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Paul2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lets talk about the future, the question is now not whether the next Russian adventure will be, but when.
> 
> One we now know for sure, Russians keep betting on very risky adventures every 3-4 years regardless of the reality on the ground.
> 
> People now say that punching Pussolini in the face now will set them back for a long time. It's damn wrong. The timeline for them will only accelerate.
> 
> Defence people in the West still don't get the logic of regimes like China, or Russia
> 
> 
> 
> If I have to say, this is just like the first time we were in Iraq back in 90.
> 
> What the west does not understand is that, by not going all the way, with all the self-impose restriction, your enemy will not see your act as noble, but instead will be looked at as weakness.
> 
> What we need is to make sure Russia no longer have the capability to make another war like that. But that have to be done step by step, first by not letting this go.
> 
> regimes like China or Russia only understand power, the west only care about how to look good, but war can never fought good and clean, if you know what I mean....
Click to expand...


Russia will start another war even if Pussolini will have to push conscripts with sticks, and stones on an enemy. This is what the West doesn't understand. The military defeat now will not deter him just as sanctions before that. Life of their soldiers means nothing to Russian regime, and Russians starving means nothing too. The bigger the enemy they make people to imagine, the more fun for them "fighting & prevailing."

Really, you Westerners need to start thinking of Putin as nothing different from Kim, or the Burmese junta. For North Koreans, Kim is said to have won 10 world wars by now, and Korean People Army is now "prevailing" over capitalists on the Moon (really, not a joke.)

You can throw out any logic into the garbage bin if you keep trying to find a real military strategy there, as there is none. Going with 160k troops force against 200k in entrenched, and fortified positions in a country with open fields has no strategy to it. But there is a cold psychopatic logic to selling hopes of grabbing at least a dime of Ukrainian territory, population, and industry to insinuate "glorious victory," give few factories, and serfs as handouts to his oligarchs, and scare to shit his own police/spies/military.


If he loses in Ukraine, I would say he will go for something even more brazen in 1.5-2 years to quickly patch up his regime.

Now he will look for somebody even more "Kuwaitable." I will not be surprised if he will attack Belarus, or even North Korea if it comes to that, but more likely he will pick his own satrapy for an easy victory.

In the later case, he can go Kuwaiting somebody in the Central Asia, where no country has a real functioning military (this is why I tell that Talibans can walk over here if they really wanted.)

If the coming crisis will be really severe, he can stage a direct provocation against a NATO country. The longer Putin will sit on the throne, the bigger he will need the crisis to be to save his regime, as everyone will intensify their attempts to grab power from him as they see him ageing, and frailing.

I'm almost done with Kazakhstan. What is left is to sell 2 company cars, 1 excavator, close the company, and I am done, phew.

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## Wergeland

Daylamite Warrior said:


> I dont think your faith has any impact with the inaccuracies of your comments. Please dont play that card on me.



Huh..?
I wasnt even trying to. It was you who alleged that my comments came from a christian perspective, which i was trying to tell you that its not. What this shows is basically that muslims can disagree on things. We just happen to see things from different angles and thats perfectly OK for me. Not everyone has to agree with my POV


----------



## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> AMAZING
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524474300874604545




Ukraine has gained the advantage in towed artillery. I really hope Ukraine will receive M270s or HIMARS in the upcoming weapons packages.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524437300574310401

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524461908371378176

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524461908371378176


The way that turret went in the air so up high was unexpected. 🤯

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524480592288653313

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## Wood

Ukraine proposes prisoner swap to end Azovstal steel plant siege. I hope this deal is made

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## Paul2

Paul2 said:


> In the later case, he can go Kuwaiting somebody in the Central Asia, where no country has a real functioning military (this is why I tell that Talibans can walk over here if they really wanted.)



Speaking of the devil:

In the news just now: 








Turkey, Kazakhstan agree on 'enhanced strategic partnership'​Kazakhstani president ran to Ankara asking for a Turkish base...

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524518725252263936

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## kingQamaR

The military situation is Ukraine favours UAF as in the north as defenders they have terrain advantage, along the eastern front they have well prepared extensive defenses of trenches and minefields. The Russians are using Battalion Tactical Group, rather similar to Kampfgruppe. Russia's disaster is that BTG is not suited to siege trench warfare, they are for open maneuver warfare. To be honest, both armies have core fundamental problems that can not be fixed in a hurry. Ukraine is holding the line, but to win they need to drive the Russians back across the border - not possible with a static defense. Russia can not use more force because of logisitc limitations.

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## _Nabil_

kingQamaR said:


> The military situation is Ukraine favours UAF as in the north as defenders they have terrain advantage, along the eastern front they have well prepared extensive defenses of trenches and minefields. The Russians are using Battalion Tactical Group, rather similar to Kampfgruppe. Russia's disaster is that BTG is not suited to siege trench warfare, they are for open maneuver warfare. To be honest, both armies have core fundamental problems that can not be fixed in a hurry. Ukraine is holding the line, but to win they need to drive the Russians back across the border - not possible with a static defense. Russia can not use more force because of logisitc limitations.


True, Russians advancing at a turtle speed, while Ukrainians not taking back any position

Looks like this war will last forever ....

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524450027371966465

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524336063728160768

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524519263306133504

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524396268683816961

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524474560707543044

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524488482755862531

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## Elvin

For all these arab and other Russian sympathizers please go to Russia next time you have a war or issue, don’t come to Europe and the US. Obviously most of you support Russia so go live there and see what Russia is lol.

Just imagine a world Russia or China rules…

All countries US defeated in Ww2 are today successful, wealthy and developed countries. How about Russia? Most are still playing catchup 30 years later lol. 

China? Yeah nooo …

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## The SC

Deputy Chairman of the Russian Security Council Dmitry Medvedev: We will defeat the United States economically and win in a special operation.. I promise you that the Americans will thank their government for the high prices of food and gasoline, and they will soon go crazy.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524301827587678208


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524493229697245185


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## Flight of falcon

Wood said:


> The way that turret went in the air so up high was unexpected. 🤯




How does this guy sitting in his mom's basement knows that this video is from deep inside Russia? Looks like the tank hit some powerful mine.

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## The SC

Elvin said:


> For all these arab and other Russian sympathizers please go to Russia next time you have a war or issue, don’t come to Europe and the US. Obviously most of you support Russia so go live there and see what Russia is lol.
> 
> Just imagine a world Russia or China rules…
> 
> All countries US defeated in Ww2 are today successful, wealthy and developed countries. How about Russia? Most are still playing catchup 30 years later lol.
> 
> China? Yeah nooo …




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524524678445993987


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## Elvin

Elhamdullilah 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524252274368954368
Russian forces have reportedly collapsed around Kharkiv 🇺🇦 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524193308699996160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524399801617592322

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524351169166024707

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524435079862358017


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## Elvin

Yes sir! 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524302389985095681
Yes please narrate these mammals.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524511341968605184

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## Wood

Software engineer in Karkhiv found an abandoned Russian tank. He claims to have used this 'personal' tank to kill atleast 3 other tanks and a number of other infantry vehicles

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> What the Russians would do is send the BTG's along the main road. Probably won't work out well for them, but the cost to Finland would be massive.


Well, I wouldn't like the sound of what you just said if I am a Russian soldier. 

As I said to another member a month ago, marching down the main road is a death trap, you are going thru a sort of deadly funnel and open to ambush just like the Fin did back in 1941...Hell, just like what the Ukrainian did 70 days ago...

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## Wood

Hackers hack Russian TV and news outlets

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524525506288398336

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## jhungary

Daylamite Warrior said:


> Since when did UN dictate how a super power acts? Does Israel listen to the UN? Did US listen to UN when it invaded Iraq?
> 
> They do have the right, for the reasons I just mentioned. Russians being massacred on their border. They did go to UNSC but were politically vetoed by the US, and since UN has no teeth or backbone then law MUST be taken into one's own hands.


First of all, UN ALWAYS have the power to act, the problem is not within UN power, the problem is who or what used that power, because if that is align with Russian Interest, US and the West usually veto it, and if that is align with US/Western Interest, Russia and China usually veto it. In this case, no one veto it, Not US, France, UK, Russia or China. Invasion Iraq have UN backing you can debate whether or not UN resolution are extended all the way into Military action if Saddam did not comply, but as I said many time before, that does not mean the resolution did not give US the power to go into Iraq. Israeli case, well, Israeli did gave back Sinai to Egypt in the 80s now does it? As I said, it's not about the Power UN have but who utilize that power, in Israeli case, UN will never vote on Israeli issue because it mostly will automatically be blocked by US, UK or France. 

Again, this is different than NATO intervention in Kosovo. NATO is not invading Kosovo to annex Kosovo as part of US, UK or France. Russian enter into Ukraine with the sole intention to occupy land. And sure, Russia can invade if you are Russian, but that does not mean it is right to do so or will have international support, and it does not mean they can bitch about the result or the western sanction which the Kremlin are bitching about every 2 or 3 days. You push, they push back.

And if Russia are "Having a backbone" they will *NOT* veto UNSC resolution on Ukrainian matter. You do know it take two the game, right? You can't have the cake and eat it.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524461356484812807

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## F-22Raptor

*Russian forces did not make any significant advances anywhere in Ukraine on May 11, and Ukrainian forces took further ground northeast of Kharkiv. *The Ukrainian counteroffensive north of Kharkiv City has forced Russian troops onto the defensive and necessitated reinforcement and replenishment efforts intended to prevent further Ukrainian advances towards the Russian border. Russian efforts along the Southern Axis and in Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts remain similarly stalled, and Russian forces have not made any significant gains in the face of continued successful Ukrainian defenses.






Institute for the Study of War


Russian forces did not make any significant advances anywhere in Ukraine on May 11, and Ukrainian forces took further ground northeast of Kharkiv. The Ukrainian counteroffensive north of Kharkiv City has forced Russian troops onto the defensive and




understandingwar.org

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524388422126911488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524389719970308098

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524439635505602561


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524309767111462913

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Russia will start another war even if Pussolini will have to push conscripts with sticks, and stones on an enemy. This is what the West doesn't understand. The military defeat now will not deter him just as sanctions before that. Life of their soldiers means nothing to Russian regime, and Russians starving means nothing too. The bigger the enemy they make people to imagine, the more fun for them "fighting & prevailing."
> 
> Really, you Westerners need to start thinking of Putin as nothing different from Kim, or the Burmese junta. For North Koreans, Kim is said to have won 10 world wars by now, and Korean People Army is now "prevailing" over capitalists on the Moon (really, not a joke.)
> 
> You can throw out any logic into the garbage bin if you keep trying to find a real military strategy there, as there is none. Going with 160k troops force against 200k in entrenched, and fortified positions in a country with open fields has no strategy to it. But there is a cold psychopatic logic to selling hopes of grabbing at least a dime of Ukrainian territory, population, and industry to insinuate "glorious victory," give few factories, and serfs as handouts to his oligarchs, and scare to shit his own police/spies/military.
> 
> 
> If he loses in Ukraine, I would say he will go for something even more brazen in 1.5-2 years to quickly patch up his regime.
> 
> Now he will look for somebody even more "Kuwaitable." I will not be surprised if he will attack Belarus, or even North Korea if it comes to that, but more likely he will pick his own satrapy for an easy victory.
> 
> In the later case, he can go Kuwaiting somebody in the Central Asia, where no country has a real functioning military (this is why I tell that Talibans can walk over here if they really wanted.)
> 
> If the coming crisis will be really severe, he can stage a direct provocation against a NATO country. The longer Putin will sit on the throne, the bigger he will need the crisis to be to save his regime, as everyone will intensify their attempts to grab power from him as they see him ageing, and frailing.
> 
> I'm almost done with Kazakhstan. What is left is to sell 2 company cars, 1 excavator, close the company, and I am done, phew.


It depends. 

Putin is not yet descending into Kim's level, The emphasis on YET. 

The problem as I said, is the West always look for a way out instead of directly confronting the problem, the only time we did that is back in the 70s and 80 when the Cold War is at its height. There are a lot of thing the west can do to prevent War from happening, and back then was the time the US and its allies does not afraid of using their arsenal. I mean look at Falkland, if it happened in 2020, I am pretty sure instead of Thatcher quick and direct action, what we have would be a debate at the common. 

This war is a start, it needed to show the West will not compromise to Russia, there are pretty much nothing we can do within Russia, but what we can do at this point is to let Putin know that if he want game, he will get, that is the only thing that stop him from further adventure. We need to start protecting the little guy (Not sure about North Korea tho, if Russia did anything stupid, Kim may nuke Russia) 

As I said many time before, time for the West to talk is gone, if Putin want to escalate, we need to escalate by doing more than him. We should have closed off Black Sea or may even be putting up No Fly Zone to dare the Russia to have a go at us. That way Putin knows his challenge will be met and then some. We should not be fear of dragging ourselves into war, but then most of the people in the US or Australia did not think like me.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524275954134179840


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524443220104695808

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524419399398133763

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524467729834598402

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524330970790379521


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524403696230187010

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524401132638031873

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524335433131474944

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## CAPRICORN-88

Wood said:


> Software engineer in Karkhiv found an abandoned Russian tank. He claims to have used this 'personal' tank to kill atleast 3 other tanks and a number of other infantry vehicles


These stories are so fantastic that they could be nominated to the Guiness Book of World Record. 

Yet yet despite their fantastic software engineers, they did not modified the US Switchblades drones that are seemingly useless against the Donbass militia today. So US now resorted to sending their Pheonix Ghost suicide drones instead.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524410698436075531

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524411961454309382

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524420303874572288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524418420586041345

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524564136092475397

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524497828894154752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524491926862450689

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524485435673694208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524419377080279041

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524168745882632193

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## RescueRanger

The darling of NATO the Azov battalion are engaged in some really disturbing acts:

1. Humiliation, sexual assault, torture and forced confessions of Russian women in Ukraine:



Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522768323162763265



Physical assault, racial discrimination, harassment and humiliation of the Roma minority community in Ukraine:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522827427784716288
Here is your sex offender and woman beating Azov “hero”:






Maxim Yarosh son of Dmitro Yarosh, the leader of Pravy Sektor, a coalition of ultra-nationalist groups in Ukraine




Photo of Dmitro Yaros circa 2014 after heavy clashes with police and ultra right fighters in Kyiv.



Wood said:


> The way that turret went in the air so up high was unexpected. 🤯


 Noooo explosives make things fly? Who knew? Physics is fun kids 😂

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## The SC

RescueRanger said:


> The darling of NATO the Azov battalion are engaged in some really disturbing acts:
> 
> 1. Humiliation, sexual assault, torture and forced confessions of Russian women in Ukraine:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522768323162763265
> 
> 
> 
> Physical assault, racial discrimination, harassment and humiliation of the Roma minority community in Ukraine:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522827427784716288
> Here is your sex offender and woman beating Azov “hero”:
> 
> View attachment 843310
> 
> Maxim Yarosh son of Dmitro Yarosh, the leader of Pravy Sektor, a coalition of ultra-nationalist groups in Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photo of Dmitro Yaros circa 2014 after heavy clashes with police and ultra right fighters in Kyiv.
> 
> 
> Noooo explosives make things fly? Who knew? Physics is fun kids 😂


And these guys are getting $100s of billion in "aid"? what a world we are living in!

Well..

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524277472707198976

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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> And these guys are getting $100s of billion in "aid"? what a world we are living in!


And just today I was speaking to a friend who’s family are in Kabul and the country has run out of medicines.

Yet these guys are getting billions in aid and funding. It is a world of might is right and if your “skin colour fits”.

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## The SC

RescueRanger said:


> And just today I was speaking to a friend who’s family are in Kabul and the country has run out of medicines.
> 
> Yet these guys are getting billions in aid and funding. It is a world of night is right and if your “skin colour fits”.


A very recent US tweet said that they will bomb Afghanistan if the national security of the US is at risk.. (I'll post it when I'll find it again..deemed it off topic!)

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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> A very recent US tweet said that they will bomb Afghanistan if the national security of the US is at risk.. (I'll post it when I'll find it again..deemed it off topic!)


They have left that country to rot - why can’t they leave Afghans in peace for goodness sake.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524358055936372739

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524077504142659584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523935873540141056

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## Apollon

Wergeland said:


> We then have to agree to disgree.
> Using that argument we could say all human came from Africa or that all civilizations except the Chinese, was founded in Sumer.



You obviously have not much knowledge. If course Greece is foundation if west. Our ancestors clearly saw themself as European and made a strong division between us and asiatics and easterners in general. Just read what Aristoteles had to say about Europeans (Greeks) and Asiatics (Persians).

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## DF41

DF41 said:


> Events about Taiwan will be reacted to by China just as Russia reacting to Ukraine and ending the war that Nazis started there 8 years ago.




Confession made from the horse mouth Pentagon that they planned and engineered and financed the war USA /NATO instigated in Ukraine.

USA /NATO guilty of all the atrocities committed by their Ukraine Nazis in deliberate killings of Russian speaking Ukrainians that lead to the required military intervention by Russia to bring that to an end.
View attachment 843319




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524396268683816961

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## CAPRICORN-88

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524403696230187010
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524401132638031873
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524335433131474944


With the capture of Popasnaya by DNR Militia located on a higher elevation in recent days, the Ukrianian targets are all visible within the firing range of the Russian artilleries.

I am surprised the West MSM are not reporting about this and the battle going on at Odessa. 
In both cases I read the Ukrainian forces suffered heavy losses. Bodies of Ukrainian Marines are being washed onshore.

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## sammuel

RescueRanger said:


> And just today I was speaking to a friend who’s family are in Kabul and the country has run out of medicines.
> 
> Yet these guys are getting billions in aid and funding. It is a world of might is right and if your “skin colour fits”.



Are you seriously claiming US did not pour enough money into Afghanistan ?

Maybe have not stayed long enough ? ( 20 years )

Have not given the afghans enough weapons ? ( does not look so from the amount of helicopters the Taliban now have . . . )

You cant help people that don't help themselves.

The Ukrainians are fighting for their freedom and are using the weapons given to them. 

Can you say the same about the Afghan people ?



~

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## CAPRICORN-88

DF41 said:


> Confession made from the horse mouth Pentagon that they planned and engineered and financed the war USA /NATO instigated in Ukraine.
> 
> USA /NATO guilty of all the atrocities committed by their Ukraine Nazis in deliberate killings of Russian speaking Ukrainians that lead to the required military intervention by Russia to bring that to an end.
> View attachment 843319
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524396268683816961


So it is not surprising when some Americans are beginning to refer to Biden as the President of Ukraine instead of the USA today.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Did I mentioned that* I WAS IN KYIV* for almost the entire April??
> 
> The commander of the 95th Air Assault Brigade (The defender of Kyiv) is a VERY GOOD FRIEND OF MINE, I was invited by him to train the Territorial Defence Force in Kyiv and I have fought with him in Iraq when he was a Captain. I know multiple people living in Ukraine that fled the war in first day, I know enough people from both side of the aisle to know what both side feel. Hell, i even dated an Ukrainian once.
> 
> So, no, it was YOU who sitting comfy at your own home and talk about how a country invade another country and then blame the country that being invaded. If you want to blame Ukraine, go fight with Russia, I am pretty sure you will meet some the the guy I trained. Otherwise, don't sit here and pretend you know shit about Ukraine from the "Colleague" of yours.


Welcome back! Hope you have a story to tell for us.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524600447750844416


Elvin said:


> For all these arab and other Russian sympathizers please go to Russia next time you have a war or issue, don’t come to Europe and the US. Obviously most of you support Russia so go live there and see what Russia is lol.
> 
> Just imagine a world Russia or China rules…
> 
> All countries US defeated in Ww2 are today successful, wealthy and developed countries. How about Russia? Most are still playing catchup 30 years later lol.
> 
> China? Yeah nooo …




If the West were not invading nor destroying out countries, we wouldn't need to go to Europe.



Elvin said:


> For all these arab and other Russian sympathizers please go to Russia next time you have a war or issue, don’t come to Europe and the US. Obviously most of you support Russia so go live there and see what Russia is lol.
> 
> Just imagine a world Russia or China rules…
> 
> All countries US defeated in Ww2 are today successful, wealthy and developed countries. How about Russia? Most are still playing catchup 30 years later lol.
> 
> China? Yeah nooo …




If the West were not invading nor destroying out countries, we wouldn't need to go to Europe.

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## Oldman1

thetutle said:


> While Finland is undoubtedly very well organised, if russia attacked with 160 BTG's Finland would we well and truly screwed.
> 
> They would lose a massive amount of civilians and soldiers. It would be catastrophic. Its only a small country, to lose 30k or 40k people would be shattering. They would of course be armed by the west but ti would be very bad.
> 
> Naturally, when they join NATO, its all over. they can sleep at night again. I hope they do it soon.


Russia tries to attack Finland, they be royally screwed. Its a massive forest country and not armor terrain. They will be massacred! It will be 10 times worse than what they are seeing in Ukraine.

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## Oldman1

Sineva said:


> A rather bizarre one here:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524113558715383810Tho it does raise the rather obvious question as to why a civilian police department would have, or even need,equipment that is fit for war service,never mind that it has so much of it [3000 pieces!?]












North Hollywood Bank shootout.



Wergeland said:


> Correct.
> Good points. Neither Finland or Sweden joined NATO immidiately after WW2 when US power was arguably at its zenith.
> 
> US hard power has been on steady decline since the Korean War. Same applies also to the US economy.
> 
> NATO was created as a Transatlantic defence block. It worked flawlessly for that special purpose. After integration of former soviet block nations it became more expansionist oriented, thus move away from its core philosophy IMO.


We didn't force them to join NATO. And as we saw it's exactly what it suppose to do.


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## CAPRICORN-88

I just read another funny news. 

Hilliary Clintons who failed in her bid to become a US Presidency now called Russian President Putin a failed President. 

So many clowns in the Western arena.

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## Oldman1

Wergeland said:


> Are you deliberately trolling or are you just oblivious to civilians pains?
> 
> Ukraine is devastated and in ruin. Its empty of neccesary food, water and gasoline. Its bridges and highways are destryoed. For all practical purposes Ukraine has stopped functioning as normal state and is a failed state. Which is proven by Ukrainians leaving their own country by the millions.







Time index 2:30. Do they look like they have empty food?






Repaired bridge.

I don't know what you have been watching but Ukrainians don't just stop and stare. They rebuilding even during war.

In near future they intend to make a memorial of the old bridge and build a new one. Right now they have a temporary bridge which they built and finished within a few days after the Russians retreated from Kiev.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513568763819536396






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520140720874692609

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## Laser

sammuel said:


> Are you seriously claiming US did not pour enough money into Afghanistan ?
> 
> Maybe have not stayed long enough ? ( 20 years )
> 
> Have not given the afghans enough weapons ? ( does not look so from the amount of helicopters the Taliban now have . . . )
> 
> You cant help people that don't help themselves.
> 
> The Ukrainians are fighting for their freedom and are using the weapons given to them.
> 
> Can you say the same about the Afghan people ?
> 
> 
> 
> ~


Afghans are fighters, fighting for 40 years. they took money from all sides but spent on one side.

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## RescueRanger

sammuel said:


> Are you seriously claiming US did not pour enough money into Afghanistan ?
> 
> Maybe have not stayed long enough ? ( 20 years )
> 
> Have not given the afghans enough weapons ? ( does not look so from the amount of helicopters the Taliban now have . . . )
> 
> You cant help people that don't help themselves.
> 
> The Ukrainians are fighting for their freedom and are using the weapons given to them.
> 
> Can you say the same about the Afghan people ?
> 
> 
> 
> ~


Am I seriously claiming what exactly ? I’m calling a spade a spade - before you jump on that high horse and yell high o silver - we as in Pakistanis have hosted the largest amount of Refugees since 1980 and continue to do so today. 

So sit back down and chew on your own collective failure in Afghanistan.

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## CAPRICORN-88



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## RescueRanger

CAPRICORN-88 said:


>


Boris Johnson has a fight on his hands back in the UK with the party hate drama and a failing economy, rising inflation and rising poverty the likes not seen since the 1970’s. 

Reminds me of this scene from a very famous British comedy television show:

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## Sineva

Oldman1 said:


> North Hollywood Bank shootout.


Not a good analogy I`m afraid.
Most bank robbers want to get in and out very quickly,the last thing that they want is to end up in a pitched gun battle with the police,by comparison the guys in north hollywood waited around for the police to show up and were carrying a literal arsenal of weapons in the boot of the getaway vehicle,indeed the whole point seemed to be a massive "nobody gets out alive" type shootout with the cops,which is what they got.
Interestingly when the police searched the offenders home after the event they found a considerable stash of cash from previous robberies,so these jokers clearly didnt do it for the money.
Ultimately offenders of this type are the [thankfully] extremely rare exception,not the norm,and frankly I dont think officer johnny is going to be any better equipped to deal with these types of offenders even if hes given a machinegun and a whole sh!tload of paramilitary "tacticool" type gear to go with it.


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## CAPRICORN-88

US Spy chiefs defend Russia-Ukraine intelligence, say China is even tougher to assess​
Speaking to US lawmakers, intelligence leaders also express concern about Beijing’s rapid nuclear weapons build-up
The officials say they did not think Beijing will take advantage of the global distraction over the Ukraine war to invade Taiwan, or is in a rush

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Sure, blame the country being invaded for being invaded. What if Ukraine moving away from Russia, does that somehow justify Russian invasion??
> 
> Threat? What Threat? If a country sovereignty is a threat to another country, then the sole existence of that country itself is a threat, are you telling me Ukraine have no right to exist and exercise their own sovereignty decision on who they trade with and who they align with? Ukraine was NOT part of Russia, and that is for a good reason. You don't invade a country because they are trying to join an alliance so they were not to be invaded.







This is why there was a Ukrainian revolt back in 2014. Nothing to do with CIA, didn't even need that much push.


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## RescueRanger

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> US Spy chiefs defend Russia-Ukraine intelligence, say China is even tougher to assess​
> Speaking to US lawmakers, intelligence leaders also express concern about Beijing’s rapid nuclear weapons build-up
> The officials say they did not think Beijing will take advantage of the global distraction over the Ukraine war to invade Taiwan, or is in a rush


China is playing the field very well. The west have a habit of underestimating China.

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## monitor



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## Oldman1

Sineva said:


> Not a good analogy I`m afraid.
> Most bank robbers want to get in and out very quickly,the last thing that they want is to end up in a pitched gun battle with the police,by comparison the guys in north hollywood waited around for the police to show up and were carrying a literal arsenal of weapons in the boot of the getaway vehicle,indeed the whole point seemed to be a massive "nobody gets out alive" type shootout with the cops,which is what they got.
> Interestingly when the police searched the offenders home after the event they found a considerable stash of cash from previous robberies,so these jokers clearly didnt do it for the money.
> Ultimately offenders of this type are the [thankfully] extremely rare exception,not the norm,and frankly I dont think officer johnny is going to be any better equipped to deal with these types of offenders even if hes given a machinegun and a whole sh!tload of paramilitary "tacticool" type gear to go with it.


LOL! These days the police department has to catch up with the times when criminals are more heavily armed than cops of the 60s to 80s with revolvers only. Not to mention the advantage of taking on criminals from long range. You can deal with psychos with nothing to live for with heavily armed weaponry or criminals who want to be just as heavily armed criminals.


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## CAPRICORN-88

RescueRanger said:


> Boris Johnson has a fight on his hands back in the UK with the party hate drama and a failing economy, rising inflation and rising poverty the likes not seen since the 1970’s.
> 
> Reminds me of this scene from a very famous British comedy television show:


What was originally a liimited Special Military Operation by Kremlin to denazify the Donbass, etc has now been changed.

This probably in response to action by The US, UK and NATO in Ukraine.

Kremlin has now decided to stay on a long protracted war in Ukraine. Unlike Afghanistan, it will be AZOV neo-NAZI Ukrainian fighting the East Ukrainian with them Russian in encirclement, artilleries and air support and peacekeepers after that. 

In view of the threats by NATO Russia will turned Ukraine into a landlocked state with all the new independent Republics protected by Russia.

They have now uncovered evidence of a plan by US and NATO to occupy Crimea militarily and locked the Russia out from the Black Sea.

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## RescueRanger

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> What was originally a liimited Special Military Operation by Kremlin to denazify the Donbass, etc has now been changed.
> 
> This probably in response to action by The US, UK and NATO in Ukraine.
> 
> Kremlin has now decided to stay on a long protracted war in Ukraine. Unlike Afghanistan, it will AZOV neo-NAZI Ukrainian fighting East Ukrainian.
> 
> In view of the threats by NATO Russia will turned Ukraine into a landlocked state with all the new independent Republics protected by Russia.
> 
> They have now uncovered evidence of a plan by US and NATO to occupy Crimea militarily and locked the Russia out from the Black Sea.


And that has been the fear of anyone with a sane brain- this conflict will become a protracted quagmire for Europe and Russia and will have a serious impact on global security.

Just look at the markets, fuel, energy and food costs globally- never mind poor countries.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Daylamite Warrior said:


> If it was their Muslim faith that governed why they did that then why didnt previous Muslim dynaties do the same? So their ethnicity has to be called into question, as opposed to just their faitth. Furthermore, they were at war with Byzantium, therefore nobody can expect favourable treatment until treaties are signed. Basic stuff. The Crusades happened when Alexios I begged the Latin Church to send their military to help fight, otherwise the western church never made pilgrimage to the Holy Land, as it was all about the Vatican, and would never have made the journey. Again basic stuff. However, none of that justifies the Crusades.


It is known that Christians has made pilgrim voyages to Jerusalem since 326 CE, starting with the mother of Constantine.








Pilgrimage in the Byzantine Empire


Pilgrimage in the Byzantine Empire involved the Christian faithful travelling often huge distances to visit such holy sites as Jerusalem or to see in person relics of holy figures and miraculous icons...




www.worldhistory.org





The Seljuks banned **Christian** pilgrims from Jerusalem. not **Byzantine** pilgrims.
The Fatimid Muslim dynasty did the same under Al-Hakim 50 years earlier.
Later rulers of the Fatimid Empire removed the ban.
Christians were always treated as second class citizens by Islam.

Even today, helping an ally under attack is considered a valid cause for war.



Daylamite Warrior said:


> Yes they do demonise Russian athletes because they arent even allowed to complete as independent and the censorship has gone beyond Putin and gone into Russian culture, which is inherently fascist and racist. Sooner you accept this the less delusional you will appear.


No Russian athlete are personally blamed for the war, unless they explicitly support Putins war.
This is not about race, this is about allegiance. The West is accepting Russian refugees which do not accept Putins misrule.



Daylamite Warrior said:


> Human rights is not a western construct and the west themselves have contributed a lot to its degradation, only to then regret what they had done and virtue signal some human rights bills or laws into existance (which are seldomly used when it doesn't fit their national interest).


Human rights have predominately been driven by the West, but not neccessarily by their governments.



Daylamite Warrior said:


> Yes Muslim slaves lived better than Western freemen, cloathed and fed as per sharia law. Western slaves were systematically raped, tortured and killed, which would amount to capital punishment according to sharia law. Comparing berber pirates to the main body of Muslims would be like me comparing Ku Klux Klan to western civilisation, you'd be the first to cry foul if anyone did that.


It was the West that stopped legal slavery, primarily the British



Daylamite Warrior said:


> Muslims conducted slavery during a time when slavery was the norm, to complain about that shows hypocrisy and fallacy of presentism. No Muslim nation has slaves any more so it's a moot point.


It still exist but is now called Human Trafficking.








Human trafficking in the Middle East - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org








Daylamite Warrior said:


> Regarding the Muslim retaliation to the countless massacres by Crusaders, then that is justified. We believe in eye for an eye so the Muslims had to teach the blood thirsty Latin crusaders that their massacres will eventually catch up with them. Those who were killed at Hattin were the combatant captives, not the Christian populations. The Crusaders would massacre entire towns of people, men women and children. How dare you compare the two! Muslims and the west are chalk and cheese when it comes to spilling blood im afraid, the West as expected excels in that too!


I get your point.
Christian Massacres are not justified.
Muslim Massacres are always justified.

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## kingQamaR

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> What was originally a liimited Special Military Operation by Kremlin to denazify the Donbass, etc has now been changed.
> 
> This probably in response to action by The US, UK and NATO in Ukraine.
> 
> Kremlin has now decided to stay on a long protracted war in Ukraine. Unlike Afghanistan, it will AZOV neo-NAZI Ukrainian fighting East Ukrainian.
> 
> In view of the threats by NATO Russia will turned Ukraine into a landlocked state with all the new independent Republics protected by Russia.
> 
> They have now uncovered evidence of a plan by US and NATO to occupy Crimea militarily and locked the Russia out from the Black Sea.



Putin doesn't have an exit strategy does he? If he succeeds he will need a huge army of occupation to keep Ukraineo subdued and Russia will suffer sanctions for decades. If he loses he will lose status, prestige and quite probably his life. So what the hell is he going to do


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## A.P. Richelieu

Wergeland said:


> Yes, like i said after Ukraine became anti-russian.
> Throwing out an elected government through paid nationalist elements, who then systematically began anti-Russian policies against eastern Ukrainian. A part of Ukraine that was/is overwhenmingly pro-Russian and has Russian majority provinces, that voted for the government that was removed from power by foreign interference.


Ukraine did not "throw out an elected government".
The Ukrainan president Yanukovich signed an agreement with Russia (possibly after bribing)
when the Ukrainan government was in final stages of an agreement with the EU.
When Ukraine started preparing an impeachment against the President, he escaped to Russia, stealing 30 billion dollars in the process.
Since he was unable to perform his duty Ukraine selected an acting president.
The Ukrainan Constitution allows for an acting President when the President is unable to perform his/her duty due to medical conditions. The situation where the President was refusing to do his/her duty was not foreseen. This ambiguous situation lasted for a year, until the next planned Presidential election happened.
Yanukovich formally was president until the end of his term, but would have been impeached.
He was later tried in absentio and convicted as a traitor.

Even before Yanukovich left, the operation to annex Crimea had started.
The Donbass rebellion was started within days of Yanukovich leaving and all the leaders were Russian citizens with support by the Russian Army disguised as volunteers.
Russia officially invaded 4 months later in August 2014.

The foreign interference was present, and mostly Russian.


----------



## RescueRanger

kingQamaR said:


> and quite probably his life.


He's already dying - an oncologist friend of mine said he's exhibiting sings of chemo therapy. Remember - wounded animals are the most dangerous.

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## A.P. Richelieu

lightning F57 said:


> Complete drivel....Ukraine is the same situation with Russia its part of their strategic objectives to stop Ukraine from getting closer to NATO, Iraq was US way of getting rid of Saddam to make a government more friendly with them. Atleast be consistent, this is issue with Russia cry wolfers.


The US way of getting rid of Saddam was a way to get rid of an awful dictator.
The current Iraqi government is mostly friendly with Iran, which is to be expected from a predominantly Shia population. The US is not going to war against this government. It is providing support against Sunni Islamists.


----------



## RescueRanger

*New report from Human Rights Watch claims both Russia and Ukraine have used indiscriminate cluster munitions in the conflict:*









Intense and Lasting Harm


The 20-page report, “Intense and Lasting Harm: Cluster Munition Attacks in Ukraine,” details how Russian armed forces have used at least six types of cluster munitions in the international armed conflict in Ukraine.




www.hrw.org





Another source:









Ukraine war: Finland expected to announce NATO bid - as both sides in Ukraine conflict are accused of using cluster bombs


Reports are also surfacing of more pushback of Russian forces in a Ukrainian counterattack that could signal a shift in the momentum of the war.




news.sky.com





--- Related ---
Also looks like there are rumors that Russia is moving BTG's to areas near Kyiv from Donbass. Although I don't buy this because Russia's aim has been to capture that belt of the country and solidify their grasp there - pushing on Kyiv now will just end up in further embarrassment for Putin.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> This is why there was a Ukrainian revolt back in 2014. Nothing to do with CIA, didn't even need that much push.


lol, I was at that Palace just a few weeks ago, man that was some place. That place now a corruption memorial, you can literally go in and see how lavish Yanukovych lived before he took 2 billions of Ukraine money and left.



monitor said:


> View attachment 843333


You know that if Putin really does that he will get pee in his face, or what we said "Golden Shower"


----------



## Menthol

Oldman1 said:


> This is why there was a Ukrainian revolt back in 2014. Nothing to do with CIA, didn't even need that much push.



Maybe yes and maybe no.

To revolt, you can use anything to create dissatisfaction among people.

Because of the golden palace, corruption, even a small thing like electricity bill.

No country is perfect, even in USA and Europe.

With the right attempt, you can raise people's dissatisfaction to rebel.

And justify it as legit.


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Welcome back! Hope you have a story to tell for us.


Thanks

lol, had a talk with some TDF guy when I was outside Bucha, there were a tank graveyard where there are all those Russian tank that got destroyed was tow there waiting to be dispose. The guy in charge of that operation joke that they can build an empire state building from the Steel recycle from those wreck.......

I was there training one of their TDF rotation. And I also teaches some UA guys a trick or two about Military Intelligence.

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## patero

jhungary said:


> Thanks
> 
> lol, had a talk with some TDF guy when I was outside Bucha, there were a tank graveyard where there are all those Russian tank that got destroyed was tow there waiting to be dispose. The guy in charge of that operation joke that they can build an empire state building from the Steel recycle from those wreck.......
> 
> I was there training one of their TDF rotation. And I also teaches some UA guys a trick or two about Military Intelligence.


Yeah good to see you back and in good health. It's amazing to see someone from the forums actually going to Ukraine and doing something worthwhile to help out, it's a great thing you've done. The rest of us keyboard warriors (with a couple of possible exceptions) can only admire from a distance and put a few words on a forum to support (Russia cheerleaders aside).

Was there much chatter about the Moskva sinking, did it help with morale?


----------



## BHAN85

Finland must apply for NATO membership "without delay", Finnish leaders say


https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/finland-president-green-light-nato-entry-2022-05-12/ https://www.presidentti.fi/en/press-release/joint-statement-by-the-president-of-the-republic-and-prime-minister-of-finland-on-finlands-nato-membership/ :lol: Europe people is becoming insane under the...



defence.pk


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## gambit

Corax said:


> In the same way YOU are making a judgement on the Russian military based purely on ONE account of Ukraine?!


If I am willing to call the VKS sucks just from this one war, then why are you so reluctant to call the US military 'loser' after several wars?

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## thetutle

Paul2 said:


> Speaking of the devil:
> 
> In the news just now:
> 
> 
> View attachment 843264
> 
> 
> Turkey, Kazakhstan agree on 'enhanced strategic partnership'​Kazakhstani president ran to Ankara asking for a Turkish base...


That would be awesome. But ti wont happen. Russia would invade the same day.



_Nabil_ said:


> True, Russians advancing at a turtle speed, while Ukrainians not taking back any position
> 
> Looks like this war will last forever ....


This is true only if you live in an alternate russian reality.


----------



## lightning F57

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The US way of getting rid of Saddam was a way to get rid of an awful dictator.
> The current Iraqi government is mostly friendly with Iran, which is to be expected from a predominantly Shia population. The US is not going to war against this government. It is providing support against Sunni Islamists.


Whether Saddam is good bad or whether zelenski is good or bad is not under the microscope. It's the blatant hypocrisy of the west.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Wergeland said:


> The Shias killed tens of thousand of Sunnis after Second Iraq War. All while the US looked the other way. Sunnis are still being opressed in Iraq today. Is the US gonna implement a new no-fly zone soon?
> 
> Wanna know the real reason behind Second Iraq War? The US simply wanted to make an example of a country by throwing it against a wall and showing the world who is the boss. Afghanistan was too small and had no real coventional Army. The Taliban went guerilla mode immidiately after the war.
> 
> Rumsfeld and Cheney reasoned that Afghanistan was a too easy target and did not send the message USA wanted to. Iraq was the perfect country for that. It had a coventional Army that was one of the strongest in arab world, atleast on paper.
> 
> Read the Leeden doctrine.
> named after neoconservative historian Michael Ledeen. The “doctrine” states:
> _“Every ten years or so, the United States needs to pick up some small crappy little country and throw it against the wall, just to show the world we mean business.”_
> 
> Basically just bully tactics


And Sunnis killed tens of thousands of Shia.
The US did not ”look away” but used diplomacy.
So you think the strongest Arab country is still a ”crappy little country”?

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## jamahir

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The US way of getting rid of Saddam was a way to get rid of an awful dictator.



Who gave you the right to regime change there ? To do that in Libya, Syria and Venezuela too ? Apart from trying to do that in Cuba and North Korea for more than a half a century now. You did that in Afghanistan in the 1980s and tried in Egypt during Nasser's time. The problem of NATO is it doesn't want to see leftist movements in governance especially in Muslim-majority societies. A late uncle of mine was in Iraq during Saddam's time and he told me that he liked it there.

I say the free people of the world should help the progressives in USA to achieve regime change there.

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## jhungary

patero said:


> Yeah good to see you back and in good health. It's amazing to see someone from the forums actually going to Ukraine and doing something worthwhile to help out, it's a great thing you've done. The rest of us keyboard warriors (with a couple of possible exceptions) can only admire from a distance and put a few words on a forum to support (Russia cheerleaders aside).
> 
> Was there much chatter about the Moskva sinking, did it help with morale?


Thanks

Well, I don't know, Kyiv didn't felt like a warzone when I was there, sure, there were air and missile attack but it wasn't a sustained effort, it was like around 10 strike in 40 days that I was there. Even at places like Kharkiv (I was in the city center for one day) and down south near Dnipro, It didn't give you a sense that you are in a warzone, you are in constant danger. But you do see people who escape war and that face is something you probably will never forget. 

As for Morale, Moskva was sunk when I was there for a week or so, I saw people jump up in joy and head to the street, they started kissing everybody, and I ask my terp what happened, and he told me the Ship that our border guard asked to go F themselves had F'ed themselves. And you can see how much of a boost when mural with the word ми можемо це зробити start being painted everywhere in Kyiv, in the bus stop, on the shop front or even at the middle of the road

ми можемо це зробити means We Can Do It.

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## thetutle

Elvin said:


> Elhamdullilah
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524399801617592322


Thats a very simplistic way of looking at it, This to me looks like a russian diversion. They weren't trying to cross the river, they were only trying to confuse the river and the ukranians. The Ukrainians foolishly wasted their missies on these vehicles while the real attack was happening somewhere else.


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## jhungary

https://twitter.com/i/events/1524657471930912769








Basically, Putin singlehandedly achieve something NATO failed to achieve in the last 70 years in just 70 days.....Finland is now applying to join NATO.

And judging from the UK Swedish (and Finland of course) Defence Pact, we will expect the same thing with the Swede when they announce their intention on the 14th. Thank you Mr Putin, and my wife loses a bet, and she don't like to lose.

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> As I said many time before, time for the West to talk is gone, if Putin want to escalate, we need to escalate by doing more than him. We should have closed off Black Sea or may even be putting up No Fly Zone to dare the Russia to have a go at us. That way Putin knows his challenge will be met and then some. We should not be fear of dragging ourselves into war, but then most of the people in the US or Australia did not think like me.


West calculates it is not necessary as long as russia is getting happened. If they Strat winning. the west will be more and more involved and will enter into a shooting war with russia. The west has drawn the line I think.


----------



## Broccoli

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524330970790379521



I wonder if Lavrov has heard that Russian military invaded Ukraine? Apparently not, oh sorry, it's not war it's a special military operation.


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> West calculates it is not necessary as long as russia is getting happened. If they Strat winning. the west will be more and more involved and will enter into a shooting war with russia. The west has drawn the line I think.


Well, what I see is, this is exactly the problem here. The "Would they? Will They?"

I mean, if this is a prime time rom-com, that kind of relationship is something we all watch, not when you are dealing with matter on National and International Security level. These type of "We would act only if they have the advantage" is not going to be deterrent enough for Putin or a run of the mill dictator think twice before their next misadventure. If I was Biden, I will probably enforce a no fly zone last November when Russian is stacking on Ukrainian border, it is within their right to do it if Zelenskyy asked for one. That way, it deter Russian from attacking by taking their Air Support out. 

In reality, what we actually did was keep saying Russia is going to invade and keep saying if they invade and we will do X, Y and Z. None of which put NATO in direct confrontation to the Russian. I am not asking for a war, I am saying if they had done more to call the Russian bluff, this war probably not going to start to begin with.


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## Corax

gambit said:


> If I am willing to call the VKS sucks just from this one war, then why are you so reluctant to call the US military 'loser' after several wars?


Because you don't understand nuance and context, and reality isn't as simple as 'bad' guy wears black vs 'good' guy wears white Hollywood propaganda  Militaries have their strengths and weaknesses. Even the US intelligence community is now openly stating that the war in Ukraine has reached a stalemate, and it appears neither side can achieve outright victory (based on their relative objectives). If you don't understand the finer details of warfare, not my problem, go get an education.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524421596810645504


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## Wergeland

A.P. Richelieu said:


> And Sunnis killed tens of thousands of Shia.
> The US did not ”look away” but used diplomacy.
> So you think the strongest Arab country is still a ”crappy little country”?





https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB326/doc06.pdf











The Price of Loyalty


Updated with a new afterword and including a selection of key documents, this is the explosive account of how the Bush administration makes policy ...




www.simonandschuster.com





Iraq War decided already before 9/11 by the Bush Administration.


----------



## DF41

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> What was originally a liimited Special Military Operation by Kremlin to denazify the Donbass, etc has now been changed.
> 
> This probably in response to action by The US, UK and NATO in Ukraine.
> 
> Kremlin has now decided to stay on a long protracted war in Ukraine. Unlike Afghanistan, it will be AZOV neo-NAZI Ukrainian fighting the East Ukrainian with them Russian in encirclement, artilleries and air support and peacekeepers after that.
> 
> In view of the threats by NATO Russia will turned Ukraine into a landlocked state with all the new independent Republics protected by Russia.
> 
> They have now uncovered evidence of a plan by US and NATO to occupy Crimea militarily and locked the Russia out from the Black Sea.



Russia need to de nazified whole of Ukraine and drain the pus out.

And if necessary, NATO as well



jamahir said:


> Who gave you the right to regime change there ? To do that in Libya, Syria and Venezuela too ? Apart from trying to do that in Cuba and North Korea for more than a half a century now. You did that in Afghanistan in the 1980s and tried in Egypt during Nasser's time. The problem of NATO is it doesn't want to see leftist movements in governance especially in Muslim-majority societies. A late uncle of mine was in Iraq during Saddam's time and he told me that he liked it there.
> 
> I say the free people of the world should help the progressives in USA to achieve regime change there.




Breaking USA into 49 different countries will be good.

Hawaii will be free and under native Hawaiians .


----------



## thetutle

sammuel said:


> Are you seriously claiming US did not pour enough money into Afghanistan ?
> 
> Maybe have not stayed long enough ? ( 20 years )
> 
> Have not given the afghans enough weapons ? ( does not look so from the amount of helicopters the Taliban now have . . . )
> 
> You cant help people that don't help themselves.
> 
> The Ukrainians are fighting for their freedom and are using the weapons given to them.
> 
> Can you say the same about the Afghan people ?
> 
> 
> 
> ~


To the Afghans this this probably what freedom looks like. This actually is what most have fought for and wanted. I don’t think they ever wanted full womens rights, gay parades and gay marriage, which would have inevitably come had their country accepted a western type of democracy. 

Ukraine is fighting for a western way of life, and to not be a Russian slave. They will understandably fight to the end for it.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524421596810645504


So if nato pulls out of Kazakhstan and Afghanistan, will Russia pull out of Ukraine?

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## gambit

Corax said:


> Because you don't understand nuance and context, and reality isn't as simple as 'bad' guy wears black vs 'good' guy wears white Hollywood propaganda  Militaries have their strengths and weaknesses. Even the US intelligence community is now openly stating that the war in Ukraine has reached a stalemate, and it appears neither side can achieve outright victory (based on their relative objectives). If you don't understand the finer details of warfare, not my problem, *go get an education. *


I need to get an education? Am USAF, F-111 Cold War then F-16 Desert Storm.

You did not know it, but you essentially debunked yourself with this latest post. Earlier you did called the US military 'loser' because of a string of wars, now you say there are 'nuances' and 'contexts' that must be considered. In the US military, we have something call 'Professional Military Education' or PME. It is mandatory for officers and enlisted, and continuous for as long as you are active duty. You will learn that in any war, there are two equally important components: political and military. As I was in the USAF, my PME courses focused on the military side of any war. So from my perspective, that which you admonished me to 'get an education', the more nuances and contexts there are, the less credible the charge that the US military is a 'loser' military despite Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

This is a military oriented forum where most people here, including *YOU*, have never served. And I need to get an 'education'?

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> I am not asking for a war, I am saying if they had done more to call the Russian bluff, this war probably not going to start to begin with.


I don’t think Russia would ever have accepted its current borders. They will invade regardless. 


jhungary said:


> These type of "We would act only if they have the advantage" is not going to be deterrent enough for Putin or a run of the mill dictator think twice before their next misadventure.


I won’t think west would care about a deterrent if Russia starts winning. I think they will just intervene and finish Russia off. The costs will be big, but I don’t think we are prepared to live in a world where Russia keeps expanding


----------



## khansaheeb

SuperStar20 said:


> When is this DAMN war going to end? When it started, PDF members were given timeline 5-6 weeks.
> Russia has no clear objective. What is the point of killing and destroying everyday. Putin should stop this war immediately. Give chance to Ukraine to act Russian demands. Russia can attack anytime if Ukraine don't follow/obey those demands.


Keep listening to Fox News and you will believe in lies and fantasy. Who said it would last 5 weeks? All Russia said it was a special operation and it didn't say a declaration of war. If we go by the standards of the US and West set in the previous world wars then the Russians could end the "special operation" by committing atrocities by flattening Kyiv with a Dresden type bombing or dropping two Nukes on Ukraine like Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Euro poodles are barking like the poodles they are, very brave and loud but nothing is going to be achieved. Push the Russians too much and they could attack Europe causing a domino of collapse and a more bloodier war in mainland Europe. Russia is a far more powerful country than the Europoodle propaganda portrays and the major powers know it. It was a well planned Russian operation and the Russian successes are materialising slowly and surely. Other than adding fuel to fire there is little NATO can do while Russia absorbs Ukraine part by part. We can only commiserate with the Ukrainian people who have been shafted by foreign powers and their own politicians, may their suffering end and peace come quickly to them.


----------



## mazeto

RescueRanger said:


> The darling of NATO the Azov battalion are engaged in some really disturbing acts:
> 
> 1. Humiliation, sexual assault, torture and forced confessions of Russian women in Ukraine:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522768323162763265
> 
> 
> 
> Physical assault, racial discrimination, harassment and humiliation of the Roma minority community in Ukraine:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522827427784716288
> Here is your sex offender and woman beating Azov “hero”:
> 
> View attachment 843310
> 
> Maxim Yarosh son of Dmitro Yarosh, the leader of Pravy Sektor, a coalition of ultra-nationalist groups in Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photo of Dmitro Yaros circa 2014 after heavy clashes with police and ultra right fighters in Kyiv.
> 
> 
> Noooo explosives make things fly? Who knew? Physics is fun kids 😂


 What sort of military beat a girl like that? I am sure she ended up in a ditch after rape.
While I have no doubt perverts and sadists are there in the Russian army committing atrocities, the Ukrainians overall seem to be totally consumed by hatred and of a lower moral order. Castrating PoWs, kneecapping, executions, literally eating human flesh et al, openly on camera as it's accepted in their society. 
Their perversions have apparently become normalised in their psyche, what with their leaders at the highest level openly asking to commit war crime and genocide.
The West have created a Frankenstein of a nation in their push to destroy Russia.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

And yet some feel sympathy for them..... the more Russian pigs dying in Ukraine,the better I feel.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524652882204758016

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> I don’t think Russia would ever have accepted its current borders. They will invade regardless.
> 
> I won’t think west would care about a deterrent if Russia starts winning. I think they will just intervene and finish Russia off. The costs will be big, but I don’t think we are prepared to live in a world where Russia keeps expanding


Well, it is and it isn't, I will just say if we act early, thing will not be heading this way.

But that is just me, I get what you are saying, I don't necessarily agree or disagree with it, it just a different opinion.


----------



## RoadAmerica

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524396268683816961


Same thing Russia does to their friends 🥱


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524670370514673670

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Corax

gambit said:


> I need to get an education? Am USAF, F-111 Cold War then F-16 Desert Storm.
> 
> You did not know it, but you essentially debunked yourself with this latest post. Earlier you did called the US military 'loser' because of a string of wars, now you say there are 'nuances' and 'contexts' that must be considered. In the US military, we have something call 'Professional Military Education' or PME. It is mandatory for officers and enlisted, and continuous for as long as you are active duty. You will learn that in any war, there are two equally important components: political and military. As I was in the USAF, my PME courses focused on the military side of any war. So from my perspective, that which you admonished me to 'get an education', the more nuances and contexts there are, the less credible the charge that the US military is a 'loser' military despite Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan.
> 
> This is a military oriented forum where most people here, including *YOU*, have never served. And I need to get an 'education'?



Nope, if you have the education you claim to have, they clearly didn't teach you how to read English, you know, that language your British ancestors bestowed upon you  Read my posts again, I described the wars that the US lost and why, as well as the wars the Russians lost, and why. I never called the US military a 'loser' or the Russian military a 'loser'. Every dog has it's day, and some dogs' bark is louder than their bite. Not everyone uses the simpleton vernacular you Americans use, and I know you guys have limited vocabulary.

Here's the funny thing, you dress up Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan as "victories" and claim to be invincible...very much like how the Russians are now claiming "everything is going to plan" and will claim "victory" and "invincibility" at some point  you hate the truth...you and the US are VERY MUCH like the Russians, opposite sides of the same coin.

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## jhungary

RoadAmerica said:


> Same thing Russia does to their friends 🥱


Whoever made that tweet need to be reminded the war did not just start this February, it has been since 2014. There are like 8 rotation of US Army National Guard rotate there and train the Ukrainian Military since 2014.....

So yes, we did arm and prep them before Russian invaded in 2022, that mostly because they are the only one who from 2014 to 2022 said they have nothing to do with Ukraine.....

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524684818302357509


----------



## RoadAmerica

RescueRanger said:


> They have left that country to rot - why can’t they leave Afghans in peace for goodness sake.


Probably has something to do with 9/11 🤷🏿‍♂️


----------



## jhungary

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524421596810645504


You need to add Finland to that map...They just announced they are going to join.


----------



## mazeto

@jhungary 
Taking your claim to have recently trained Ukrainian s at face value, what is your honest military assessment :
1. The military quality of an average Russian vs average Ukrainian infantry guy( army not militia). Choosing infantry as they are the most numerous arm. 
2. Prediction of military end point if Russia wants to just control a swathe of coastal Ukraine till transnistria 
3. Entire east Ukraine
Can Russia maintain it, or it becomes a rout later as their military and economy become degraded?


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524631306210058241

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## RoadAmerica

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Afghan people kicked the NATO arse by driving them out of their country. Stop chatting sh*t, you Zionist and Palestinian children-killing monster.


I mean he simply made an accurate point 
😢


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524654504741851136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524689250654040066


----------



## mazeto

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524670370514673670


 Selective morality of EUropeans. They want other nations to sanction Russia but themselves sanctioning only convenience stuff

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> These type of "We would act only if they have the advantage" is not going to be deterrent enough for Putin or a run of the mill dictator think twice before their next misadventure



Single party states are different from run of the mill dictatorships.

Even most harebrained dictators have some competing interests behind them — people who will vote with their feet, and their money if they go to far.

Russia probably was there 20 years ago, but certainly not now when they have rebuilt the de-facto CPSU successor.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524643334270361601

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524691046063644673

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524678618626072578


----------



## Tipu7

LeGenD said:


> Russian equipment losses are visually confirmed in following link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.oryxspioenkop.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian equipment losses are visually confirmed in following link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Attack On Europe: Documenting Ukrainian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.oryxspioenkop.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is another source which documents Russian losses on the whole. It is very graphic so I am not posting it here.
> 
> 26000 Russian KIA by now.
> 
> Russians also provide statistics of Ukrainian losses on the whole but these are not visually or independently confirmed.
> 
> You will find useful links in following thread:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Repository of journalistic sources and how to use them with Russia - Ukraine War in focus and Fact-checking considerations
> 
> 
> Dear members, Some members complain about the issue of reporting bias (and propaganda) in journalistic contents. These complaints were noticed in the following thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/ This thread is created to address the...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This war is relatively bigger in scale and much more intense than Soviet-Afghan War ever was. Tragic on many levels.


I am aware of Oryx which has earned considerable reputation as a OSINT platform.
I just needed official figures at that time for some work.


----------



## RescueRanger

RoadAmerica said:


> Probably has something to do with 9/11 🤷🏿‍♂️


Read the period of time I am referring to before being a wise guy. Yes


----------



## jhungary

mazeto said:


> @jhungary
> Taking your claim to have recently trained Ukrainian s at face value, what is your honest military assessment :
> 1. The military quality of an average Russian vs average Ukrainian infantry guy( army not militia). Choosing infantry as they are the most numerous arm.
> 2. Prediction of military end point if Russia wants to just control a swathe of coastal Ukraine till transnistria
> 3. Entire east Ukraine
> Can Russia maintain it, or it becomes a rout later as their military and economy become degraded?


1.) Not much, if you compare infantry to infantry, equipment wise and training wise, in fact Ukrainian would have home ground advantage, because they know where they can set up ambush, they know the location and they know the people. Russia, as an attacker is inherently in a disadvantage because they are fighting an away war, on a normal Sunday, you will use your intel to make up the different, but as far as OSINT concern, Russia is not doing as good as a job than Ukraine.

2.) There are virtually *NO WAY* they can do that. There are a small contingent in Transnistria, (1000 or so troop) that cannot be used to flank Odessa on the side, and if they do, it open a way for Moldova to recapture Transnistria, not saying that they will, I am saying they can't move those troop or that *MAY* happened.

Without that, you need a land bridge to support a beachhead for a amphibious assault, which mean the Russian would need to go across Kherson to Mykolaiv and all the way to Odessa in order to relief the Beachhead. Easy to say, Hard to do, especially bulk of the troop in Kherson are actually trying to fight off Ukrainian counter offensive there.

Even if that is doable, you are looking at a city of 1 million people, with sizable defence garrison, and Russia would have been at their end of the line of communication, even if Russia manage to push thru Mykolaiv, this will most likely end up the same result as Kyiv.

3.) Depends on how much ground they captured. There are roughly 96 BTG (Roughly 80,000 -100000 men) in the area fighting 6 to 10 Ukrainian Brigade (roughly 40,000 men), number is quite equal (Bear in mind you need 3 to 1 advantage on the attacker side), as I said the first post I came back, I don't see the frontline is going to move a great deal maybe 5 to 10 km either way. So yes, if the frontline stay it was, Russian can maintain that line. Given the Ukrainian did not up tempo their attack.

On there hand, if Russia are going all the way, and they can go all the way and took the entire Donbas, then the troop Russia have in place will NOT be enough, you would probably need to double to have 2/3 more (so 150 to 200 BTG) because you are talking about another 150km front line and every piece of land within it. There are going to Spreading too thin to cover the entire area.

I wouldn't know if Russia can take that, Russia is making slow progress but Ukraine is obviously working toward Kupiansk. If Ukraine took Kupiansk before Russia break out from Izyum, the entire Russian offensive in Izyum would fold, because that is the major rail hub between Belgorod into Eastern Ukraine, that's where all the store come from. And without Irpin, there are no way Russia can make progress in Eastern Ukraine.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524455435767627777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524361653843861505


----------



## thetutle

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524564136092475397


Wow, he is getting very desperate, threatening Finland with genocide if they join NATO. 

Too bad, no one cares. Finland is joining hehehehhe nothing russia can do.


----------



## Enigma_

Well I must admit watching the propaganda war from both sides has been fascinating.


----------



## The SC

A possible conflict between NATO and Russia could escalate into a nuclear war, which would be a “disastrous scenario for everyone” - Medvedev


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524658353456226304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524684757724020736


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

jamahir said:


> Who gave you the right to regime change there ? To do that in Libya, Syria and Venezuela too ? Apart from trying to do that in Cuba and North Korea for more than a half a century now. You did that in Afghanistan in the 1980s and tried in Egypt during Nasser's time. The problem of NATO is it doesn't want to see leftist movements in governance especially in Muslim-majority societies. A late uncle of mine was in Iraq during Saddam's time and he told me that he liked it there.
> 
> I say the free people of the world should help the progressives in USA to achieve regime change there.


Read up on it.



Wergeland said:


> https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB326/doc06.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Price of Loyalty
> 
> 
> Updated with a new afterword and including a selection of key documents, this is the explosive account of how the Bush administration makes policy ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.simonandschuster.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iraq War decided already before 9/11 by the Bush Administration.


I do not remember 9/11 being part of the Casus Belli.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

lightning F57 said:


> Whether Saddam is good bad or whether zelenski is good or bad is not under the microscope. It's the blatant hypocrisy of the west.


You call it hypocricy because you have an urge to complain, and hope noone will see through your lack of arguments, trying to convince people that apples and pears are the same thing.


----------



## Muhammed45

I hope Sweden makes a wrong move and Russia gives them a bloody nose.


----------



## lightning F57

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You call it hypocricy because you have an urge to complain, and hope noone will see through your lack of arguments, trying to convince people that apples and pears are the same thing.


What is the lack of argument. Your reasons have been pretty poor so far for justifying the illegal invasion of Iraq vs the illegal invasion of Ukraine. Difference is your fine to call out the Ukraine situation as being russian aggression but failed to see Iraq in the same light.

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## jamahir

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Read up on it.



I have read enough and know enough.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

lightning F57 said:


> What is the lack of argument. Your reasons have been pretty poor so far for justifying the illegal invasion of Iraq vs the illegal invasion of Ukraine. Difference is your fine to call out the Ukraine situation as being russian aggression but failed to see Iraq in the same light.


That is because the motivation and goals of the two invasion are vastly different.


----------



## Corax

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You call it hypocricy because you have an urge to complain, and hope noone will see through your lack of arguments, trying to convince people that apples and pears are the same thing.



Nope, Western democracy is built on hypocrisy and no real values. It's built on self-serving interest and defeating potential challengers to the US, and in that respect it's no better than any other Machiavellian state, such as Russia. Ever since the end of the USSR, the US has been using Europe and NATO remove the threat of Russian nukes still pointed at it, it has a stated goal to remove any state becoming strong enough to challenge its global dominance.

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## lightning F57

A.P. Richelieu said:


> That is because the motivation and goals of the two invasion are vastly different.


I disagree the goals are strategic for influence and control.....we are going around in circles so I will stop there.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524406832890064901

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524641452554432512

Catastrophic losses at that river crossing for Russia


----------



## Vergennes

The SC said:


> A possible conflict between NATO and Russia could escalate into a nuclear war, which would be a “disastrous scenario for everyone” - Medvedev
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524658353456226304
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524684757724020736



Tell the Russians no one gives a fck about their nuclear threats,they need to change the disc.

And Sweden/Finland will join NATO,Russia's going to do jack sh/t about it.

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## LeGenD

Tipu7 said:


> I am aware of Oryx which has earned considerable reputation as a OSINT platform.
> I just needed official figures at that time for some work.



Fair.

This is what I could find for your convenience:









General Staff: 26,350 Russian troops killed since Feb. 24.


Ukraine’s Armed Forces said on May 11 that Russia had also lost 1,187 tanks, 2,856 armored fighting vehicles, 528 artillery pieces, 185 multiple launch rocket systems, 87 surface-to-air missiles, 160 helicopters, 199 airplanes, 390 drones, and 12 boats.




kyivindependent.com







https://tass.com/russia/1448909

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## RoadAmerica

DF41 said:


> Russia need to de nazified whole of Ukraine and drain the pus out.
> 
> And if necessary, NATO as well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Breaking USA into 49 different countries will be good.
> 
> Hawaii will be free and under native Hawaiians .


And what dream is this?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524658537607147520

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RoadAmerica

jhungary said:


> Whoever made that tweet need to be reminded the war did not just start this February, it has been since 2014. There are like 8 rotation of US Army National Guard rotate there and train the Ukrainian Military since 2014.....
> 
> So yes, we did arm and prep them before Russian invaded in 2022, that mostly because they are the only one who from 2014 to 2022 said they have nothing to do with Ukraine.....


My point was Ukraine can ask whoever they want to arm them just like many countries do with Russia. It was noting news



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524684818302357509


Again I’ve explained this, there is no international market for the shitty ruble this the value is able to be artificially controlled



thetutle said:


> Wow, he is getting very desperate, threatening Finland with genocide if they join NATO.
> 
> Too bad, no one cares. Finland is joining hehehehhe nothing russia can do.


Haha Scotty didn’t take his meds again. 
RT must have added some zeros to his check

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524717743668346880


----------



## LeGenD

Wergeland said:


> https://www.rt.com/russia/555190-regiment-russia-victory-procession/
> 
> 
> 
> Russia sacrificed a lot during the WW2. Soldiers and their families gave so much for the world to be free from fascism and nazism. Regardless of present day animosity between the West and Russia, I salute the Russian nation for their bravery and sacrifice during WW2.


Agreed.

However, Joseph Stalin was also behaving like Hitler *before* Germany invaded Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) in 1941.

- USSR invaded Finland and Poland in 1939.
- USSR invaded and annexed Baltic states (Estonia; Latvia; Lithuania) in 1940.

USSR and Germany had Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact to split Europe including Poland between them.









Molotov-Ribbentrop: Five states remember 'misery' pact victims


The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact doomed half of Europe for decades, say the Baltics, Poland and Romania.



www.bbc.com





Both sides were Fascist to begin with.

The Big Five have conditioned people around the world to subconsciously hate Nazism which is fine but somewhat ironic given their own respective track record(s). China does have better moral compass because these people have experienced imperialism of the British Empire for burning opium and oppression of Imperial Japan. China also saved North Korea in the Korean War.

China is becoming powerful and seems to patronize Russia lately but China should reject Fascism. Developments in Georgia, Syria and Ukraine indicate that Russia have not changed.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524670486642409473

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524683951142547456

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524727833045741568

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## Paul2

LeGenD said:


> This war is relatively bigger in scale and much more intense than Soviet-Afghan War ever was. Tragic on many levels.



I see much, much more parallels with Iran-Iraq, except it's going a bit quicker. 8 years have passed since Putin sent his Khuzestanians, and he then went to finish it off.

Similarly, ethnic Russians played major role opposing Russia, as ethnic Arabs, and Kurds played a big role on *Iranian* side, to Saddam's huge surprise. Saddam took the decision to sarin his Kurds after losing the war.

Big difference though is that the West was feeding weapons to Iraqis, from behind the back, not the defending side, and that's the main reason why the hot phase lasted that long.

Saddam was sending forward men with stick, and stones closer to the end of the war once the generosity of his sponsors ran out.

Similarly, Ukrainians got their own battle of Khorramshahr in Maripol.


----------



## jhungary

April 7 on the road West of Kyiv






(I DID NOT TAKE THIS PICTURE)


God, I love these old movie reference.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

A debate between 1 congresswoman and 1 congressman. both of whom happened to be Republicans, on the $40 billion USD arms package to Ukraine. Deep State operative Dan Crebshaw thinks as long as there is no single American soldier in Ukraine while "investing in the destruction of [their] adversary's [Russia] military strikes [him] as a good idea." In other words, let us fight Russia to the last Ukrainian. Not sure if any Ukrainian, including their leadership, is paying attention.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524484621278363649


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524515830645633025

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## dbc

LeGenD said:


> Joseph Stalin was also behaving like Hitler *before* Germany invaded Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) in 1941.


Stalin and Hilter were allies at the start of WWII, between the two they decided to carve up Europe between Germany and USSR. All that changed when Hilter added Russian territory to the menu..  









The Devils' Alliance: Hitler's Pact with Stalin, 1939-1941 – review


Was Stalinism really worse than nazism? Richard J Evans takes issue with Roger Moorhouse's worryingly one-sided account of the consequences of the non-aggression pact




www.theguardian.com


----------



## retaxis

US wants to do to soloman islands what Russia did to ukraine









US confirms threat to invade Solomon Islands over China security agreement


The refusal of a senior US State Department official to rule out military action against Solomon Islands means that is exactly what is under discussion in Washington.



www.wsws.org

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## Wood

RescueRanger said:


> Noooo explosives make things fly? Who knew? Physics is fun kids 😂


I've never seen anything fly that high from explosion

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524717743668346880




Nobody believes this boolshit propaganda. Even a 8 year-old can see what this is: Some made-up boolshit. How many times are you gonna repeat that bs? Gee, what happened to people having common sense? I'm just glad that, unlike this fella, I have a job and can see what he is bombarding to the forum.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524506104192974849
This thread was very interesting. It explains the role of one engineer in tactical operations. I never knew engineers were so important for planning warfare. I only imagined that they are there to support with vehicle and equipment maintenance.


----------



## Type59

Elvin said:


> For all these arab and other Russian sympathizers please go to Russia next time you have a war or issue, don’t come to Europe and the US. Obviously most of you support Russia so go live there and see what Russia is lol.
> 
> Just imagine a world Russia or China rules…
> 
> All countries US defeated in Ww2 are today successful, wealthy and developed countries. How about Russia? Most are still playing catchup 30 years later lol.
> 
> China? Yeah nooo …



Germany and Japan were considered developed countries pre 1939.


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523664324950036480

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## F-22Raptor

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524506104192974849
> This thread was very interesting. It explains the role of one engineer in tactical operations. I never knew engineers were so important for planning warfare. I only imagined that they are there to support with vehicle and equipment maintenance.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524742847664173057

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524742861828370433

Russian incompetence at its finest



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Nobody believes this boolshit propaganda. Even a 8 year-old can see what this is: Some made-up boolshit. How many times are you gonna repeat that bs? Gee, what happened to people having common sense? I'm just glad that, unlike this fella, I have a job and can see what he is bombarding to the forum.



Learn to cope  

And FYI, I’m in the top 2 or 3 percent in terms of net worth for my age bracket in the US.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524742847664173057
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524742861828370433
> 
> Russian incompetence at its finest



LMAO they lost a BTG in a matter of hours. Good riddance.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524694569736376321

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## Hack-Hook

Piotr said:


> Russian forces destroy 793 drones, 2,979 armored vehicles in Ukraine operation - top brass​MOSCOW, May 10. /TASS/. Russian forces have eliminated 163 Ukrainian combat aircraft, 124 helicopters, 793 unmanned aerial vehicles and 2,979 tanks and other armored vehicles since the start of their special military operation in Ukraine, Russian Defense Ministry Spokesman Major-General Igor Konashenkov said on Tuesday.
> "Overall, the following targets have been destroyed since the beginning of the special military operation: 163 aircraft, 124 helicopters, 793 unmanned aerial vehicles, 300 surface-to-air missile systems, 2,979 tanks and other combat armored vehicles, 351 multiple launch rocket systems, 1,440 field artillery guns and mortars and 2,789 special military motor vehicles," the spokesman said.
> 
> https://tass.com/russia/1448909


Did they count suicide drones that hit target ?


----------



## Vergennes

And another one.... Russian convoy ambushed in eastern Ukraine


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524718848179593216

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## DF41

Why USA and NATO instigating preparing and financing the war with Russia by enabling Ukraine to kill Russian speaking Ukrainians 8 years ago until Russia had to step in.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524542707401637888

Because USA wanted to attack China. 

To do that, USA /NATO had to destroy or weaken Russia first

As explained in video below

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> LMAO they lost a BTG in a matter of hours. Good riddance.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524694569736376321




And Ukraine hasn’t even received the new weapons packages of $20B+

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## sammuel

Muhammed45 said:


> I hope Sweden makes a wrong move and Russia gives them a bloody nose.



what a nice person you are.


~


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## Paul2

This week will be more remarkable than previous 4. A spike in Russian losses due to repeated river crossing failures near Izyum, Popasna, losses from convoys ending in killboxes, and long range artillery fire getting their rear.

4+ battalions worth of vehicle losses.

Remarkable slowdown in Ukrainian loss rate, which I will not disclose, as well.

Popasna is stabilising. Ukrainians took decision to shell urban territory before Russians can entrench as civilians were said to have left.

A note for me, why Russians went for bridging, when only their tanks need bridges, and they had no tanks?

BTR, BMP can swim.

But if we remember siege of Kiyv, there was at least 1 battalion worth of vehicles which went for a swim in Pripyat, and ended up drowning because all seals on these vehicles were ages old, and hulls had holes from rust.

Maybe they were afraid of that, and that's why their mechanised can't swim.

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Nobody believes this boolshit propaganda. Even a 8 year-old can see what this is: Some made-up boolshit. How many times are you gonna repeat that bs? Gee, what happened to people having common sense? I'm just glad that, unlike this fella, I have a job and can see what he is bombarding to the forum.



Sound advise . . .

~


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## Sineva

Truer words were never spoken....

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524642361665536000

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## Wood

Paul2 said:


> This week will be more remarkable than previous 4. A spike in Russian losses due to repeated river crossing failures near Izyum, Popasna, losses from convoys ending in killboxes, and long range artillery fire getting their rear.
> 
> 4+ battalions worth of vehicle losses.
> 
> Remarkable slowdown in Ukrainian loss rate, which I will not disclose, as well.
> 
> Popasna is stabilising. Ukrainians took decision to shell urban territory before Russians can entrench as civilians were said to have left.
> 
> A note for me, why Russians went for bridging, when only their tanks need bridges, and they had no tanks?
> 
> BTR, BMP can swim.
> 
> But if we remember siege of Kiyv, there was at least 1 battalion worth of vehicles which went for a swim in Pripyat, and ended up drowning because all seals on these vehicles were ages old, and hulls had holes from rust.
> 
> Maybe they were afraid of that, and that's why their mechanised can't swim.


Thank you for breaking the battle down for us laymen to understand. Great contributions from you in this thread


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## thetutle

Sineva said:


> Truer words were never spoken....
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524642361665536000


So now this moron supports Saddam Hussein? Saddam killed a million of his people.


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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> This week will be more remarkable than previous 4. A spike in Russian losses due to repeated river crossing failures near Izyum, Popasna, losses from convoys ending in killboxes, and long range artillery fire getting their rear.
> 
> 4+ battalions worth of vehicle losses.
> 
> Remarkable slowdown in Ukrainian loss rate, which I will not disclose, as well.
> 
> Popasna is stabilising. Ukrainians took decision to shell urban territory before Russians can entrench as civilians were said to have left.
> 
> A note for me, why Russians went for bridging, when only their tanks need bridges, and they had no tanks?
> 
> BTR, BMP can swim.
> 
> But if we remember siege of Kiyv, there was at least 1 battalion worth of vehicles which went for a swim in Pripyat, and ended up drowning because all seals on these vehicles were ages old, and hulls had holes from rust.
> 
> Maybe they were afraid of that, and that's why their mechanised can't swim.


About the bridges. You need to remember two things. 

1.) Not Just tank/apc are going to use those bridges, they have to bring troop, truck, artillery across as well. 
2.) It also depends on the river ford. if the ford is not low enough, even BTR can't get up on the bank. 

As for the recent loss, well, the Russian should have know when Ukrainian withdrew from Popasna with civilian, that they will shell the village, that is really expected, they should have tug down on the outskirt and then made fortification around the city and dig in. They didn't do that suggest they are in a hurry to go to the next objective.

Another thing is, M777 and M270 MLRS is starting to show up on Frontline, which mean Russian artillery are going to be outrange by Ukrainian one, and in the Eastern Ukraine, the flat terrain favor the attacker, which mean you can just sit and bomb those village and then move in when you deal enough damage, but that cut both way, now that Russian are occupying those village, they would have been subject to the same condition, and once enough M777 (US is giving them 90 of those) are in position, they can used to either provide combat support or COUNTBAT. This is going to turn the tide a bit, until eventually Russia have to brought in their Close Air Support.



F-22Raptor said:


> And Ukraine hasn’t even received the new weapons packages of $20B+


Wonder what would Ukraine get with that 40 bil package?

Even if only half of those are going to defence, that still Qatar, Israel, Turkey or Canada level of spending. Which is a lot.

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## Wood

jhungary said:


> *Another thing is, M777 and M270 MLRS is starting to show up on Frontline, which mean Russian artillery are going to be outrange by Ukrainian one, *and in the Eastern Ukraine, the flat terrain favor the attacker, which mean you can just sit and bomb those village and then move in when you deal enough damage, but that cut both way, now that Russian are occupying those village, they would have been subject to the same condition, and once enough M777 (US is giving them 90 of those) are in position, they can used to either provide combat support or COUNTBAT.


I've seen a few CNN reports lately that say American weapons are not moved to Ukrainian frontlines quickly after they cross US border. Ukraine is also stuck with logistical issues. Any truth to this you think?


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## A.P. Richelieu

RescueRanger said:


> And just today I was speaking to a friend who’s family are in Kabul and the country has run out of medicines.
> 
> Yet these guys are getting billions in aid and funding. It is a world of might is right and if your “skin colour fits”.


If the Taliban find that they are unable to run the country, they should perhaps resign and call for elections.

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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> This week will be more remarkable than previous 4. A spike in Russian losses due to repeated river crossing failures near Izyum, Popasna, losses from convoys ending in killboxes, and long range artillery fire getting their rear.
> 
> 4+ battalions worth of vehicle losses.
> 
> Remarkable slowdown in Ukrainian loss rate, which I will not disclose, as well.
> 
> Popasna is stabilising. Ukrainians took decision to shell urban territory before Russians can entrench as civilians were said to have left.
> 
> A note for me, why Russians went for bridging, when only their tanks need bridges, and they had no tanks?
> 
> BTR, BMP can swim.
> 
> But if we remember siege of Kiyv, there was at least 1 battalion worth of vehicles which went for a swim in Pripyat, and ended up drowning because all seals on these vehicles were ages old, and hulls had holes from rust.
> 
> Maybe they were afraid of that, and that's why their mechanised can't swim.




It looks like Russian losses at the river crossing are even worse than reported. Another 20-25 vehicles were lost further inland. Around 100 in total. This was a catastrophic loss for Russia.

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## Paul2

Lysychansk also seen fording attempt yesterday, the ford was similarly blown up in time


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524775132413280256

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## A.P. Richelieu

jamahir said:


> Who gave you the right to regime change there ? To do that in Libya, Syria and Venezuela too ? Apart from trying to do that in Cuba and North Korea for more than a half a century now. You did that in Afghanistan in the 1980s and tried in Egypt during Nasser's time. The problem of NATO is it doesn't want to see leftist movements in governance especially in Muslim-majority societies. A late uncle of mine was in Iraq during Saddam's time and he told me that he liked it there.
> 
> I say the free people of the world should help the progressives in USA to achieve regime change there.


I suggest you learn about UNSC resolutions and filter away all unwarranted accusations.
All nations mentioned are United Nation members and have agreed that the UNSC have jurisdiction over such issues and countries can take action based on resolutions.


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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> It looks like Russian losses at the river crossing are even worse than reported. Another 20-25 vehicles were lost further inland. Around 100 in total. This was a catastrophic loss for Russia.



100 vehicles is still peanuts from the loss rates in the first week, when they were losing 1 regiment per day.

It's still not enough for Ukraine to shift the momentum.

On other hand: GOOD NEWS for Ukrainians, Pussolini still pushes his generals to attack entrenched positions, and doesn't get it's a turkeyshoot for Ukrainians.

I was more wary of Russians going on defensive for good, than them attacking.

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## jhungary

Wood said:


> I've seen a few CNN reports lately that say American weapons are not moved to Ukrainian frontlines quickly after they cross US border. Ukraine is also stuck with logistical issues. Any truth to this you think?


Do you mean Ukrainian border?

Well, was going to put it on the article I am writing about the future of this war after what I saw with my own eyes. But what the hey....

This war is what we called a "1, 3, 5 Battle" in the Military, 1 3 5 denoted class 1, 3, 5 of the logistic classification (It mean Food, Munition and Fuel) The problem are not bringing in heavy stuff, well, it is a problem but think of it like this. There are 90 M777 tube, so in a simple maths, you only need to solve this problem 90 times to bring all those tube to the front line. This is a problem but not as big as you think, because you will need to constantly support the gun, the people who use the gun, and the fuel that you used to bring everything into the frontline, without all 3, even if you manage to bring the 90 M777 to the frontline, that would be no use, and you don't just do it once, you do it mostly a couple of time a day and everyday you are fighting. Now, that is the real challenge.

Let me diverse a bit and go back and talk about how those guns and MLRS are bringing into the frontline. Well, unlike Stinger or Javelin, you can't just bunch a M777 or M270 on the back of your trunk and drive it there, so the option is really limited. It mean either you tow them with truck or flatbed, or you bunch them on a railway car and ship them by train, or put them in a transport plane and fly it to the nearest airport. I don't know how the Ukrainian is going to do it, but as far as It was me, I know for a fact that Russia targeting rail line just to delay those ship by rail, I would not want to ship it via rail, put it on a plane is a bit risky, so I will most likely put it on top of a flat bed and truck it all the way to the front.

From my personally experience, it took appoximately 14 hours drive from Lviv to Kyiv (7 hours on Google Map but you are not doing that with all the roadblock, check point and damages done to the road) and about the same time for the trip from Kyiv to Kharkiv. And if they travel only by night to lower the chance it will ended up on the other side of a bomb or missile, a truck can bring in 2 M270 every 2 days.

Now, let's go back to what I said, the 1,3 and 5. You don't just truck all the M777 or M270 or even HIMAS up there, you also have to bring in tons of foods, fuels and munition. Which mean something gotta give if you have limited transport capability. Which mean if you want to bring food, you may not be able to bring Ammo, Or if you want to bring Food and Ammo, you may not be able to bring a truck with 2 M270. That is the logistic problem Ukrainian is facing.

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## A.P. Richelieu

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524658537607147520

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> 1.) Not Just tank/apc are going to use those bridges, they have to bring troop, truck, artillery across as well



Yes, but you don't push everything ahead at the same time. You push light forces first to secure the head, and some buffer, then you bring heavy, support, and logistics over the bridge. Thirdly, your heavy goes forward, anticipating enemy counter, and securing buffer space.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Yes, but you don't push everything ahead at the same time. You push light forces first to secure the head, then you bring heavy, support, and logistics. Thirdly, your heavy goes forward, anticipating enemy counter, and securing buffer space.


lol, that's why I said 2 things, and that's why you don't see destroyed truck or artillery.........

Even our M2 Bradley can ford river, we uses Engineer Bridge most of the time.


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## Wood

jhungary said:


> Do you mean Ukrainian border?
> 
> Well, was going to put it on the article I am writing about the future of this war after what I saw with my own eyes. But what the hey....
> 
> This war is what we called a "1, 3, 5 Battle" in the Military, 1 3 5 denoted class 1, 3, 5 of the logistic classification (It mean Food, Munition and Fuel) The problem are not bringing in heavy stuff, well, it is a problem but think of it like this. There are 90 M777 tube, so in a simple maths, you only need to solve this problem 90 times to bring all those tube to the front line. This is a problem but not as big as you think, because you will need to constantly support the gun, the people who use the gun, and the fuel that you used to bring everything into the frontline, without all 3, even if you manage to bring the 90 M777 to the frontline, that would be no use, and you don't just do it once, you do it mostly a couple of time a day and everyday you are fighting. Now, that is the real challenge.
> 
> Let me diverse a bit and go back and talk about how those guns and MLRS are bringing into the frontline. Well, unlike Stinger or Javelin, you can't just bunch a M777 or M270 on the back of your trunk and drive it there, so the option is really limited. It mean either you tow them with truck or flatbed, or you bunch them on a railway car and ship them by train, or put them in a transport plane and fly it to the nearest airport. I don't know how the Ukrainian is going to do it, but as far as It was me, I know for a fact that Russia targeting rail line just to delay those ship by rail, I would not want to ship it via rail, put it on a plane is a bit risky, so I will most likely put it on top of a flat bed and truck it all the way to the front.
> 
> From my personally experience, it took appoximately 14 hours drive from Lviv to Kyiv (7 hours on Google Map but you are not doing that with all the roadblock, check point and damages done to the road) and about the same time for the trip from Kyiv to Kharkiv. And if they travel only by night to lower the chance it will ended up on the other side of a bomb or missile, a truck can bring in 2 M270 every 2 days.
> 
> Now, let's go back to what I said, the 1,3 and 5. You don't just truck all the M777 or M270 or even HIMAS up there, you also have to bring in tons of foods, fuels and munition. Which mean something gotta give if you have limited transport capability. Which mean if you want to bring food, you may not be able to bring Ammo, Or if you want to bring Food and Ammo, you may not be able to bring a truck with 2 M270. That is the logistic problem Ukrainian is facing.


Thanks. Yes, I meant Ukranian border


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## Viet

Paul2 said:


> 100 vehicles is still peanuts from the loss rates in the first week, when they were losing 1 regiment per day.
> 
> It's still not enough for Ukraine to shift the momentum.
> 
> On other hand: GOOD NEWS for Ukrainians, Pussolini still pushes his generals to attack entrenched positions, and doesn't get it's a turkeyshoot for Ukrainians.
> 
> I was more wary of Russians going on defensive for good, than them attacking.


Maybe true. Putin says everything goes well as planned. However even the dumbest idiot realizes that can’t be. The loss is not participated by Putin however he doesn’t care. Russia military is immune against western sanctions. The soldiers receive money in rubles. The tanks receive oil from domestic production. Russia huge military complex churn out weapons non stop.
Even if Russia economy collapses, people starve nothing to eat, Putin can wage wars.
The West is in dilemma. The question is how long this war will be. Who will blink first.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Maybe true. Putin says everything goes well as planned. However even the dumbest idiot realizes that can’t be. The loss is not participated by Putin however he doesn’t care. Russia military is immune against western sanctions. The soldiers receive money in rubles. The tanks receive oil from domestic production. Russia huge military complex churn out weapons non stop.
> Even if Russia economy collapses, people starve nothing to eat, Putin can wage wars.
> The West is in dilemma. The question is how long this war will be. Who will blink first.


Are you saying half of this thread member are "dumbest idiots" lol.....


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## A.P. Richelieu

Viet said:


> Maybe true. Putin says everything goes well as planned. However even the dumbest idiot realizes that can’t be. The loss is not participated by Putin however he doesn’t care. Russia military is immune against western sanctions. The soldiers receive money in rubles. The tanks receive oil from domestic production. Russia huge military complex churn out weapons non stop.
> Even if Russia economy collapses, people starve nothing to eat, Putin can wage wars.
> The West is in dilemma. The question is how long this war will be. Who will blink first.



I remember a quote from this book:








Pandora's Planet


Pandora's Planet book. Read 14 reviews from the world's largest community for readers.



www.goodreads.com




An alien race has just invaded the Earth, and the Grand Admiral of the space fleet makes an inspection, talking to the commander of the invasion force.

Admiral: *I hear everything is going according to plans.*
Commander: *Yes, unfortunately not according to OUR plans.*

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524781133916930048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524781135284391938

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524781136341348353

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Are you saying half of this thread member are "dumbest idiots" lol.....


This 3-day war oh Sorry 3-day special military ops is almost 3-months. If going well as planned then Ok I don’t know. Maybe I miss something.


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> This 3-day war oh Sorry 3-day special military ops is almost 3-months. If going well as planned then Ok I don’t know. Maybe I miss something.


You can say "war" now, Russian TV start using the term anyway

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## PakFactor

DF41 said:


> Why USA and NATO instigating preparing and financing the war with Russia by enabling Ukraine to kill Russian speaking Ukrainians 8 years ago until Russia had to step in.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524542707401637888
> 
> Because USA wanted to attack China.
> 
> To do that, USA /NATO had to destroy or weaken Russia first
> 
> As explained in video below



Honestly, it's a good strategy US is employing to weaken Russia and China, I would have done the same thing I see nothing wrong with it.

You see nothing stopped Russia from supplying arms to African or Middle Eastern countries to use against Western Forces to get them bogged down and killed. The same goes for China, why fight directly if you can cause death by a thousand cuts? Those who failed to adapt are Russia and China on inflicting damage. Case Study: Russia waited almost 4-5 years to come to it's ally need in Syria who was on his knees after his army was destroy. Common sense would have dictated to come early to stop the bleeding as the Western forces just did in Ukraine, sitting on one's f#cking *** doesn't correct a situation.

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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> 100 vehicles is still peanuts from the loss rates in the first week, when they were losing 1 regiment per day.
> 
> It's still not enough for Ukraine to shift the momentum.
> 
> On other hand: GOOD NEWS for Ukrainians, Pussolini still pushes his generals to attack entrenched positions, and doesn't get it's a turkeyshoot for Ukrainians.
> 
> I was more wary of Russians going on defensive for good, than them attacking.




I wouldn’t call it peanuts. That’s 2 BTGs completely destroyed in the matter of hours.


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## Flight of falcon

Here in the USA and Canada everyone is getting tired of Ukrainian war. People are starting to question why we are contributing billions to the war which we have no part in. All the talk of billions of dollars of aid is making people mad when we have to pay record high fuel prices and highest inflation in decades. 
Why are we wasting money on a war started by one clown name Zelenski when this money is better served at home.
One change: Thank God most Canadian channels have moved news about Ukraine from the top news every hour down to the third or fourth position. No more drama and propaganda on TV 24/7.

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## Sineva

thetutle said:


> So now this moron supports Saddam Hussein? Saddam killed a million of his people.


I dont recall him saying that he supported saddam in that video,maybe you should rewatch it,eh?
By the way,he signed up to fight the iraqis as a sixteen year old volunteer,during his combat service he was subjected to 2 iraqi chemical weapons attacks.The components for which were likely supplied to saddam by the west,as they were the ones who supplied the main bulk of saddams chemical weapons capability. 
Only a moron would support the actions of an aggressive rogue foreign power that was unleashing war and chaos across multiple nations in the mena region,oh and I obviously dont mean iraq when I say "🇺🇸aggressive rogue foreign power🇺🇸",as theres only one nation whose actions clearly fit that thoroughly unpleasant description.....💩🇺🇸💩


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> You can say "war" now, Russian TV start using the term anyway


It’s war what else. Finally they admit it’s war. Putin is a liar. Shameless person. Germany politicians call him as „Lügner“ on the very first day of the invasion. Liar.


----------



## PakFactor

Flight of falcon said:


> Here in the USA and Canada everyone is getting tired of Ukrainian war. People are starting to question why we are contributing billions to the war which we have no part in. All the talk of billions of dollars of aid is making people mad when we have to pay record high fuel prices and highest inflation in decades.
> Why are we wasting money on a war started by one clown name Zelenski when this money is better served at home.
> One change: Thank God most Canadian channels have moved news about Ukraine from the top news every hour down to the third or fourth position. No more drama and propaganda on TV 24/7.



There isn't much interest in the Ukraine War in the US either its just the Media crying 24/7 b1tch fest of beautiful blonde hair blue eyes dying.


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> And if they travel only by night to lower the chance it will ended up on the other side of a bomb or missile, a truck can bring in 2 M270 every 2 days.
> 
> Now, let's go back to what I said, the 1,3 and 5. You don't just truck all the M777 or M270 or even HIMAS up there, you also have to bring in tons of foods, fuels and munition. Which mean something gotta give if you have limited transport capability. Which mean if you want to bring food, you may not be able to bring Ammo, Or if you want to bring Food and Ammo, you may not be able to bring a truck with 2 M270. That is the logistic problem Ukrainian is facing.


I dont get it? You have such a critical weapon you need to get to the front and you will use a truck to bring in 2 M270 of them every 2 days?

Wouldn't you hook up 90 M777's to 90 trucks and 50 M270's to 50 trucks and get them all to the front in 1 day? it's not like the driver needs to stop at a truck stop and have beer. That truck is driving 24 hours per day non stop. These trucks can be followed by a three trucks carrying ammo and supplies. or 2 trucks. Thats like 300 trucks or so. How many trucks does Ukraine have? how many trucks does NATO have? Like 30 million trucks for NATO? 

Do trucks carrying vital nato equipment need to stop at every checkout and be patted down and contents examined? I mean really. 

I mean its. logistical exercise, sure, but if they cant get 90 artillery to the front and supply them with rounds, with all the nato help, they might be better off with russia. 

I am actually confident that they will get them to the front as soon as they arrive. and will be utilised with ruthless effect.


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> It’s war what else. Finally they admit it’s war. Putin is a liar. Shameless person. Germany politicians call him as „Lügner“ on the very first day of the invasion. Liar.


lol, we all know that.


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## sammuel

Sineva said:


> Truer words were never spoken....
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524642361665536000



Silly excuses . if people have issues with the west they should address them , not take it out on Ukraine.

Today it is Ukraine tomorrow it can be your country .

People who support Russia on this , have something wrong with their moral compass.

~

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## Sineva

Ooops...🤣

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523772143061807109Its okay,I`m sure the`re just "moderate" nazis,you know,like those "moderate" terrorists.....er...I mean "rebels" in syria,right?🤮

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## Paul2

They tried bridging near Belogorovka again, that's west of Lysychansk. This brings the total number of bridging attempts to 4 in 2 days.









I think this week's loss count will be bigger than 4 battalions. Maybe a whole brigade, or more.

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## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> lol, we all know that.



Did you personally see M270s in Ukraine because those haven’t been officially announced yet. I haven’t seen any evidence of those.


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## jamahir

A.P. Richelieu said:


> I suggest you learn about UNSC resolutions and filter away all unwarranted accusations.
> All nations mentioned are United Nation members and have agreed that the UNSC have jurisdiction over such issues and countries can take action based on resolutions.



Ah, the United Nations Security Council, or as Muammar Gaddafi called it in his 2009 UN address, the UN Terrorist Council. From the Korea war of 1950 to the Libya and Syria invasions of 2011 to now condemnation of Russia, the UNSC has essentially been a proxy, a rubber stamp of NATO imperialism.

Gaddafi called for the dissolution of the UNSC because most of the UN member countries have no power in the UNSC and it has been mostly the Western members who have used the UNSC for their ends. The UNSC is undemocratic.

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## thetutle

Sineva said:


> I dont recall him saying that he supported saddam in that video,maybe you should rewatch it,eh?
> By the way,he signed up to fight the iraqis as a sixteen year old volunteer,during his combat service he was subjected to 2 iraqi chemical weapons attacks.The components for which were likely supplied to saddam by the west,as they were the ones who supplied the main bulk of saddams chemical weapons capability.
> Only a moron would support the actions of an aggressive rogue foreign power that was unleashing war and chaos across multiple nations in the mena region,oh and I obviously dont mean iraq when I say "🇺🇸aggressive rogue foreign power🇺🇸",as theres only one nation whose actions clearly fit that thoroughly unpleasant description.....💩🇺🇸💩


Sounds to me like he's crying about America invading Iraq and getting rid of Saddam.


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> I dont get it? You have such a critical weapon you need to get to the front and you will use a truck to bring in 2 M270 of them every 2 days?
> 
> Wouldn't you hook up 90 M777's to 90 trucks and 50 M270's to 50 trucks and get them all to the front in 1 day? it's not like the driver needs to stop at a truck stop and have beer. That truck is driving 24 hours per day non stop. These trucks can be followed by a three trucks carrying ammo and supplies. or 2 trucks. Thats like 300 trucks or so. How many trucks does Ukraine have? how many trucks does NATO have? Like 30 million trucks for NATO?
> 
> Do trucks carrying vital nato equipment need to stop at every checkout and be patted down and contents examined? I mean really.
> 
> I mean its. logistical exercise, sure, but if they cant get 90 artillery to the front and supply them with rounds, with all the nato help, they might be better off with russia.
> 
> I am actually confident that they will get them to the front as soon as they arrive. and will be utilised with ruthless effect.


If you look at how many truck are needed elsewhere in the country, and how many are bringing in different stuff (Class 1 to 9) You would see only a small amount of truck are available on one sector of the battlefield. It may be only a small amount of trucks are available for this task.

And then you also need to consider a few different thing. 

1.) If I bring all the guns in, how many ammo can I bring with the truck? Do you want to bring all (or at least as many as possible) guns into battle but wait for 4 days (2 days each side) to bring the ammo up? Or you want to bring half the truck with guns and half with ammo, so you can at least put some guns in action?

2.) What about convoy security? Don't forget the same thing happened to the 40 miles Russian convoy in Kyiv can happen to Ukrainian when they bring in a large quantity of supply. You need to hide them during daylight somehow, Russia have satellite too, they can see if you have a long convoy bringing in big stuff. 

3.) You don't just have that on the road, you still have civilian traffic, military traffic, other supply using those road, you don't want to jam up the road for everyone, and you will when you bring in heavy equipment.


----------



## jamahir

PakFactor said:


> Case Study: Russia waited almost 4-5 years to come to it's ally need in Syria who was on his knees after his army was destroy. Common sense would have dictated to come early to stop the bleeding as the Western forces just did in Ukraine, sitting on one's f#cking *** doesn't correct a situation.



I agree Russia was late about Libya and Syria yet Russia was the one to oppose Western military action there even as China looked the other way. In early 2011 Russia provided satellite photos of Libyan places where NATO was saying that Libyan forces were "killing civilians including women and children" and Russia proved that it was not so. Glad that Russia in a few years realized that it had to act in Syria and Libya though unfortunately by that time NATO and its proxies Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood had murdered a lot of people, injured many and destroyed places and made many refugees.

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> Did you personally see M270s in Ukraine because those haven’t been officially announced yet. I haven’t seen any evidence of those.


No M270 I saw, but I did see M777 in Western Ukraine.

But most Ukrainian outlet or even official I talk to say M270 were coming.


----------



## Novus ordu seclorum

Russian soldiers caught on camera shooting civilian in the back.


----------



## sammuel

Novus ordu seclorum said:


> Russian soldiers caught on camera shooting civilian in the back.









~


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> If you look at how many truck are needed elsewhere in the country, and how many are bringing in different stuff (Class 1 to 9) You would see only a small amount of truck are available on one sector of the battlefield. It may be only a small amount of trucks are available for this task.
> 
> And then you also need to consider a few different thing.
> 
> 1.) If I bring all the guns in, how many ammo can I bring with the truck? Do you want to bring all (or at least as many as possible) guns into battle but wait for 4 days (2 days each side) to bring the ammo up? Or you want to bring half the truck with guns and half with ammo, so you can at least put some guns in action?
> 
> 2.) What about convoy security? Don't forget the same thing happened to the 40 miles Russian convoy in Kyiv can happen to Ukrainian when they bring in a large quantity of supply. You need to hide them during daylight somehow, Russia have satellite too, they can see if you have a long convoy bringing in big stuff.
> 
> 3.) You don't just have that on the road, you still have civilian traffic, military traffic, other supply using those road, you don't want to jam up the road for everyone, and you will when you bring in heavy equipment.


No I get it, but I also point out the extreme urgency of this and the fact that it can be done with 300 trucks. That NATO has. 

They dont go in a column, they fan out over the road network. in 2 or 3 truck convoys. or 2 trucks. one truck pulling a M777 and loaded with food and another with the shells. How many? enough for a day. then go back and deliver again. Food can last 4 days. 

You dont need an escort. you are in friendly territory. perhaps an escort in the final 100 km. 

Roads will be busy but will never be that busy in a war. 

Each M777 should have its own 2 trucks. The trucks will last longer than the M777's. the artillery will be destroyed as time goes on. Trucks will probably be ok. 

I dont think this exercise in logistics is that tricky. we are talking 90 guns.

Let me point out that USA in 1943-1943 gave and delivered to the USSR 1 million trucks. 

How manny trucks can it give Ukraine?


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> No I get it, but I also point out the extreme urgency of this and the fact that it can be done with 300 trucks. That NATO has.
> 
> They dont go in a column, they fan out over the road network. in 2 or 3 truck convoys. or 2 trucks. one truck pulling a M777 and loaded with food and another with the shells. How many? enough for a day. then go back and deliver again. Food can last 4 days.
> 
> You dont need an escort. you are in friendly territory. perhaps an escort in the final 100 km.
> 
> Roads will be busy but will never be that busy in a war.
> 
> Each M777 should have its own 2 trucks. The trucks will last longer than the M777's. the artillery will be destroyed as time goes on. Trucks will probably be ok.
> 
> I dont think this exercise in logistics is that tricky. we are talking 90 guns.


Well, think about it like this.

90 guns mean 90 trucks, each guns have 6 or 7 men crew, that mean another 90 Truck for the gunners. Then you have munition, firing radar, and other thing say each guns have its own truck for muniton, at this rate you are looking at 270 trucks for these 90 guns. That's a long convoy. Even if you break it down to 10 per convoy, that's still 120-150 meters end to end. That is still too big to spot, and that mean you have to truck it 27 different way. 

I don't know about at night, but during the day, people still using highway and travel interstate. People still live in every part of Ukraine, which mean not just military are going to be on the road. You also have civilian cars, and trucks going about on the road, plus troop movement and transport would mean there are quite a lot of traffic going in and out Kyiv to Eastern Ukraine. 

But well, that's just my thought, I am not the guy who handle logistic (I don't have that experience, not just in Ukraine) so I don't know how hard or easy it was to do that? I am just listing out the step.


----------



## Sineva

sammuel said:


> Silly excuses . if people have issues with the west they should address them , not take it out on Ukraine.
> 
> Today it is Ukraine tomorrow it can be your country .
> 
> People who support Russia on this , have something wrong with their moral compass.
> 
> ~








Pointing out the wests racism,hypocrisy and double standards when it comes to the ukraine has nothing to do with "supporting russia",thats as retarded as claiming that calling zionist israel out over its crimes makes one an "antisemite",but there you go thats good old,bad old,western pc for you.
Personally I happen to think that putin AND biden are both deluxe pieces of sh!t,its a bit like being given a choice between rabies and ebola.🤮

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## A.P. Richelieu

jamahir said:


> Ah, the United Nations Security Council, or as Muammar Gaddafi called it in his 2009 UN address, the UN Terrorist Council. From the Korea war of 1950 to the Libya and Syria invasions of 2011 to now condemnation of Russia, the UNSC has essentially been a proxy, a rubber stamp of NATO imperialism.
> 
> Gaddafi called for the dissolution of the UNSC because most of the UN member countries have no power in the UNSC and it has been mostly the Western members who have used the UNSC for their ends. The UNSC is undemocratic.



You mean the illegal coupmaker aka rapist that was killed by his own people. He, as well as a thief, is going to complain about not being able to commit crimes.

There is no requirement for a country to be a member of the United Nations and Gaddafi agreed to the rules by remaining a member.

Any resolution taken is unopposed by Russia and China, which means that the Libyan government under Gaddafi was branded as criminals that the world should stop from their atrocities.

You logically claim that Russia and China are vassals of NATO.


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> each guns have 6 or 7 men crew, that mean another 90 Truck for the gunners.


they dont get a truck. they get a van. or a civilian car. or. a hummer. or 2 cars. 



jhungary said:


> Then you have munition


1 truck for M777 one truck for arty rounds. thats 2 trucks. 


jhungary said:


> firing radar,


does each tube get its own radar? how big is it?


jhungary said:


> at this rate you are looking at 270 trucks for these 90 guns.


no, you're looking at 180 trucks and 180 civilian cars. 


jhungary said:


> Even if you break it down to 10 per convoy, that's still 120-150 meters end to end.


you're talking 180 trucks and 180 civilian cars in a land the size of France x3. all going their own way to the front, in a goup of 2 trucks and 2 civilian cars. they dont have to leave at the same time. they leave various depots in 15 minutes intervals going slightly different direction to different locations. there will be no coloumn. 

Its totally doable.


----------



## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> LMAO they lost a BTG in a matter of hours. Good riddance.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524694569736376321



That's very surprising to see Russians keeping so much troops in the southwest, when there is nothing happening there, and they have moderately defensible positions.

Balakliya is also a surprise, there were no reports of big Russian force there.

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## Paul2

If I had just a regiment too spare with armour, and air defence, pushing further southeast of Kharkiv would've been a good diversion.


Radiating pattern — ✅
Endangering supply lines — ✅
Retreat route — ✅
Diversion effect — ✅


----------



## Vergennes

Paul2 said:


> That's very surprising to see Russians keeping so much troops in the southwest, when there is nothing happening there, and they have moderately defensible positions.
> 
> Balakliya is also a surprise, there were no reports of big Russian force there.



They are keeping many troops in the soutwest to prevent/counter a future Ukrainian offensive on Kherson. The Ukrainians will attempt it once they have received the majority of the heavy equipments (especially artillery) provided by the west.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524684525485404161

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524682354060673026

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wergeland

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You mean the illegal coupmaker aka rapist that was killed by his own people. He, as well as a thief, is going to complain about not being able to commit crimes.
> 
> There is no requirement for a country to be a member of the United Nations and Gaddafi agreed to the rules by remaining a member.
> 
> Any resolution taken is unopposed by Russia and China, which means that the Libyan government under Gaddafi was branded as criminals that the world should stop from their atrocities.
> 
> You logically claim that Russia and China are vassals of NATO.



Libya was the wealthiest and African country with probably the highest HDI. Now its a hellhole after NATO bombing.

Your exuses for Libyan intervention are so dull and pathetic. Using the same argument there are tons of nations that deserve to be bombed including western. Because political leaders in almost all countries are a bunch of thiefs and rapists. Some are just better at hiding it. In order to be a top politician there almost always involve some kind of psychopathy, according to research.

Libya was invaded on behalf of America, France and UK. You know what is the most laughable part? Libya could have provided the much needed gas and petroleum that now is sourced from Russia.

Its ridiculous that western governments still has not understood that in todays interconnected world you cannot destroy a nation without it harming yourself in one or another way (something Russia is also learning). Even more worrying is that China has climbed to the top without firing a single bullet since the Sino-Vetnamese War more than four decades ago! Proving that you DONT have to interfere and attack or invade countries anymore in order to become a strong nation. You simply have to be a good businessman and provide goods that someone needs.

Summary:
Foreign intervention as solution to every problem, is a outdated stategy that no longer suits the 21st century. The West is loosing the competition by not trying to enchane its own competitiveness. That in turn leads to interventionist policies, which at its core is a way of treating the symptoms and not the disease itself. That disease is western reluctance to accept the realities and change its own thinking and market competitiveness.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524643334270361601

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## The SC

CNN Map Update


----------



## Corax

The US seems to be well on its way to defang the Russians of their nuclear weapons and ensure it never raises again to point them at the US.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

Russia will have to take retaliatory steps of a military-technical and other nature to eliminate the threats due to the entry of Finland and Sweden into NATO - Russian Foreign Ministry


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524702418923048961

Russia announces a summit of the Collective Security Treaty Organization in Moscow next week
@AlArabiya_Brk

Russia, Armenia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, Belarus, and Georgia—signed the Collective Security Treaty

In 1999, six of the nine—all but Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Uzbekistan—agreed to renew the treaty for five more years. In 2002, those six agreed to create the Collective Security Treaty Organization as a military alliance.

Similar to Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty, Article 4 of the Collective Security Treaty establishes that an aggression against one signatory would be perceived as an aggression against all.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Piotr

Hack-Hook said:


> Did they count suicide drones that hit target ?


I don't think so.



jamahir said:


> Wonderful ! But obviously @Vergennes @Messerschmitt @F-22Raptor and @Wood won't post this.
> 
> 
> 
> Irrelevant. He will be cured. And except for CIA-sponsored hippies I think the Russian people are not pelting eggs at him unlike Germans who are having a go at your foreign minister.



According to Western media Russia run out of fuel and ammunition in early March

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524730274780696576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524719101716828160

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## TNT

So i guess the western cheerleaders no longer are talking about russian economy 😂. In particular this one indonesian minority fisherman was really jumping up and down.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524729636168605698
German Economy Minister Robert Habeck:
"Russia told us that it will not supply Germany with gas."

This issue is related to the issue of GasProme Germania, which was temporarily confiscated by Germany until September 30, under the pretext of securing gas.
This is, of course, the Russian response

@soldier2017kg

German Vice Chancellor: Russia is using energy as a weapon

German Vice Chancellor and Economy Minister Robert Habeck accused Russia on Thursday of using energy as a "weapon" after the Russian government announced Wednesday that it has imposed sanctions on 31 foreign energy companies in response to Western sanctions over Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

"It must be said that the situation has reached its peak in such a way that the use of energy as a weapon is now being achieved in several regions," Habeck told reporters at a press conference in Berlin. This is not the first time that Habek has said that Russia is using energy as a "weapon".

Germany has been under pressure from Ukraine and other countries in Europe to make progress in weaning itself off Russian energy supplies since the invasion began on February 24.

Habeck said on Thursday that Germany was focusing on building gas reserves in preparation for winter.

"The gas storage facilities have to be full by winter or we will be in a position where we can be easily blackmailed," Habeck said.

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-may-use-energy-weapon-blackmail-nato-countries-berlin-1706061

The solution seems to be that the Germans use the Northern stream line 2....... by force ..


----------



## Wergeland

Corax said:


> The US seems to be well on its way to defang the Russians of their nuclear weapons and ensure it never raises again to point them at the US.


 How?


----------



## F-22Raptor

Wergeland said:


> How?



Russia is terrified of the US military cruise missile arsenal. The US could launch 2,000-3,000 missiles in the opening 48-72 hours. The US could destroy most of Russias nuclear infrastructure.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524712349625581569

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524722026338004995

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## RescueRanger

A.P. Richelieu said:


> If the Taliban find that they are unable to run the country, they should perhaps resign and call for elections.


Lol fat chance.


----------



## Corax

Wergeland said:


> How?



You're seeing it happen. Support insurrection in Ukraine, overthrow the pro-Russian elected leader, stoke anti-Russian sentiment amongst the Ukrainian Nationalists and neo-Nazis, train and build-up the Ukrainian armed forces, provoke Russian to invade in a costly unwinnable war, leading to instability in Russia, the collapse of its economy, invade Russia with a UN mandate to "stabilise" the country and "secure" its nuclear weapons. This strategy has been well thought through and played out in multiple different scenarios. But it will take time, many year, maybe a decade.



F-22Raptor said:


> Russia is terrified of the US military cruise missile arsenal. The US could launch 2,000-3,000 missiles in the opening 48-72 hours. The US could destroy most of Russias nuclear infrastructure.



No, a direct confrontation would Russia would be stupid. They would still have enough second strike capability to wipe out the US. The US strategy is one of attrition, instability and time, but it will likely defang Russia of its nuclear weapons through other means.

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## RescueRanger

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524729636168605698
> German Economy Minister Robert Habeck:
> "Russia told us that it will not supply Germany with gas."
> 
> This issue is related to the issue of GasProme Germania, which was temporarily confiscated by Germany until September 30, under the pretext of securing gas.
> This is, of course, the Russian response
> 
> @soldier2017kg


Is that stew what I think it is 😷


----------



## Wergeland

Corax said:


> You're seeing it happen. Support insurrection in Ukraine, overthrow the pro-Russian elected leader, stoke anti-Russian sentiment amongst the Ukrainian Nationalists and neo-Nazis, train and build-up the Ukrainian armed forces, provoke Russian to invade in a costly unwinnable war, leading to instability in Russia, the collapse of its economy, invade Russia with a UN mandate to "stabilise" the country and "secure" its nuclear weapons. This strategy has been well thought through and played out in multiple different scenarios. But it will take time, many year, maybe a decade.



By all means , everything is possible if given enough time. OTOH Russin kept its nukes after dissolution of Soviet, when its economy was far worse condition and was politically very weak. US even had to provide emergency food supply in order to prevent starvation.


----------



## PakAlp

The SC said:


> Russia will have to take retaliatory steps of a military-technical and other nature to eliminate the threats due to the entry of Finland and Sweden into NATO - Russian Foreign Ministry
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524702418923048961
> 
> Russia announces a summit of the Collective Security Treaty Organization in Moscow next week
> @AlArabiya_Brk
> 
> Russia, Armenia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, Belarus, and Georgia—signed the Collective Security Treaty
> 
> In 1999, six of the nine—all but Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Uzbekistan—agreed to renew the treaty for five more years. In 2002, those six agreed to create the Collective Security Treaty Organization as a military alliance.
> 
> Similar to Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty, Article 4 of the Collective Security Treaty establishes that an aggression against one signatory would be perceived as an aggression against all.


Alliance by name only. What have they done so far? Shanghai Cooperation organisation is another one. Looks giant on paper.

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## Corax

Wergeland said:


> By all means , everything is possible if given enough time. OTOH Russin kept its nukes after dissolution of Soviet, when its economy was far worse condition and was politically very weak. US even had to provide emergency food supply in order to prevent starvation.



But it was also at the height of its military capabilities. The Russian armed forces we see today are a shadow of their USSR equivalents. The Russians are using outdated equipment from the 70s and 80s, they haven't developed and fielded a single major piece of equipment since the USSR, be it main battle tanks, fighters, bombers, or missiles. Their military is corrupt and has lost any doctrinal thinking, all the have to rely on is overwhelming firepower and numbers, rather than precision and tactical nuance, and the they are even losing that main advantage if the numbers are anything to go by.

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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> They are keeping many troops in the soutwest to prevent/counter a future Ukrainian offensive on Kherson. The Ukrainians will attempt it once they have received the majority of the heavy equipments (especially artillery) provided by the west.



Good for Ukrainians: it's a corps sized force sitting doing nothing.


----------



## Wergeland

LeGenD said:


> Agreed.
> 
> However, Joseph Stalin was also behaving like Hitler *before* Germany invaded Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) in 1941.
> 
> - USSR invaded Finland and Poland in 1939.
> - USSR invaded and annexed Baltic states (Estonia; Latvia; Lithuania) in 1940.
> 
> USSR and Germany had Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact to split Europe including Poland between them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Molotov-Ribbentrop: Five states remember 'misery' pact victims
> 
> 
> The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact doomed half of Europe for decades, say the Baltics, Poland and Romania.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both sides were Fascist to begin with.
> 
> The Big Five have conditioned people around the world to subconsciously hate Nazism which is fine but somewhat ironic given their own respective track record(s). China does have better moral compass because these people have experienced imperialism of the British Empire for burning opium and oppression of Imperial Japan. China also saved North Korea in the Korean War.
> 
> China is becoming powerful and seems to patronize Russia lately but China should reject Fascism. Developments in Georgia, Syria and Ukraine indicate that Russia have not changed.



Neither Soviet or Russia was/is an Angel.

Germany and Soviet both carved up eastern Europe in order to creater big buffer against eachother. Communists and Nazis hated eachother. Hitler despised communists and accused it for being a jewish conspiracy.

Still, looking at the result theres no doubt the Soviet Union was the real warrior of WW2. Although Nazi Germany was defeated theough Allied afforts, it was Soviet who dealt the biggest blow to Hitler.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524788042283859970

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524419758220877830

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524686504588632067

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## F-22Raptor

Corax said:


> You're seeing it happen. Support insurrection in Ukraine, overthrow the pro-Russian elected leader, stoke anti-Russian sentiment amongst the Ukrainian Nationalists and neo-Nazis, train and build-up the Ukrainian armed forces, provoke Russian to invade in a costly unwinnable war, leading to instability in Russia, the collapse of its economy, invade Russia with a UN mandate to "stabilise" the country and "secure" its nuclear weapons. This strategy has been well thought through and played out in multiple different scenarios. But it will take time, many year, maybe a decade.
> 
> 
> 
> No, a direct confrontation would Russia would be stupid. They would still have enough second strike capability to wipe out the US. The US strategy is one of attrition, instability and time, but it will likely defang Russia of its nuclear weapons through other means.




Yes, Russia is terrified of massed US cruise missile strikes. Russian officials have stated this in the past. It’s the mass and precision. A lot of Russian nuclear infrastructure would be destroyed.


----------



## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> Yes, Russia is terrified of massed US cruise missile strikes. Russian officials have stated this in the past. It’s the mass and precision. A lot of Russian nuclear infrastructure would be destroyed.



You seem to have a hard on about US cruise missiles.. we get it, let it go, you've barked the same bark a hundred times on this thread already. The US has other weapons and choices as well. The Russians have equal cruise missile capability, but you can't seem to see beyond that. Cruise missiles are but one tool in the box. Attacking their nuclear infrastructure would mean a nuclear exchange (MAD scenario), can you not see that in your myopic, limited vision?

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## Viet

Siemens, one of Germany’s largest companies leaves Russia after 170 years.










Siemens to leave Russia due to Ukraine war, take hefty charge


Siemens will quit the Russian market due to the war in Ukraine, it said on Thursday, taking a 600 million euro ($630 million) hit to its business during the second quarter, with more costs to come.




www.reuters.com


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524763238487007233

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524797361842790400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524783535441252354

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524731134688391168

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## Wergeland

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524763238487007233



There we go @jhungary
Finlands economy may take a big hit even before Russia fires a single bullet. Same applies to Germany. Without cheap energy many European economies will take a hit. Its not hard to understand. Its basically like the OPEC Arab oil weaponized in the 1970s. But this time Europe is boycotting itself from cheap energy

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1 | Love Love:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524733612331081728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524744690813136896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524803821880414208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524809553170382849

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524778730551488512

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Haha Haha:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524585697906208768


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524826342465884160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524792511021056003


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524823399775756289

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524785990384111616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524780972406874114

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524732798220832769

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524823940006281216

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524780017275834368


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524820765727662080


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## The SC

United Nations: *More than six million Ukrainian refugees abroad*
@alhurra


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Wergeland said:


> Libya was the wealthiest and African country with probably the highest HDI. Now its a hellhole after NATO bombing.
> 
> Your exuses for Libyan intervention are so dull and pathetic. Using the same argument there are tons of nations that deserve to be bombed including western. Because political leaders in almost all countries are a bunch of thiefs and rapists. Some are just better at hiding it. In order to be a top politician there almost always involve some kind of psychopathy, according to research.
> 
> Libya was invaded on behalf of America, France and UK. You know what is the most laughable part? Libya could have provided the much needed gas and petroleum that now is sourced from Russia.
> 
> Its ridiculous that western governments still has not understood that in todays interconnected world you cannot destroy a nation without it harming yourself in one or another way (something Russia is also learning). Even more worrying is that China has climbed to the top without firing a single bullet since the Sino-Vetnamese War more than four decades ago! Proving that you DONT have to interfere and attack or invade countries anymore in order to become a strong nation. You simply have to be a good businessman and provide goods that someone needs.
> 
> Summary:
> Foreign intervention as solution to every problem, is a outdated stategy that no longer suits the 21st century. The West is loosing the competition by not trying to enchane its own competitiveness. That in turn leads to interventionist policies, which at its core is a way of treating the symptoms and not the disease itself. That disease is western reluctance to accept the realities and change its own thinking and market competitiveness.



Gaddafi had no legal basis for his rule having grabbed power in a coup. Gaddafi should simply have resigned and call for democratic elections when the Arab Spring movement emerged. He is ultimately responsible for the current situation and got a deserving end.

NATO put a stop to Gadaffi after a UNSC resolution.
The Islamists created the ”Hellhole” afterwards. Now Russia and Turkey is supporting factions in Libya.

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## khansaheeb

sammuel said:


> Silly excuses . if people have issues with the west they should address them , not take it out on Ukraine.
> 
> Today it is Ukraine tomorrow it can be your country .
> 
> People who support Russia on this , have something wrong with their moral compass.
> 
> ~


Very funny coming from an Israeli, perhaps you can define the Israeli moral compass?

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## A.P. Richelieu

Wergeland said:


> Neither Soviet or Russia was/is an Angel.
> 
> Germany and Soviet both carved up eastern Europe in order to creater big buffer against eachother. Communists and Nazis hated eachother. Hitler despised communists and accused it for being a jewish conspiracy.
> 
> Still, looking at the result theres no doubt the Soviet Union was the real warrior of WW2. Although Nazi Germany was defeated theough Allied afforts, it was Soviet who dealt the biggest blow to Hitler.


You obviously have not looked at the economics of WWII.
Hitler used much more resources against the West than he used against the Soviets.
The cost of the V-2 program exclusively used against the West was higher than the cost of development and production of the Panther tank.
In 1944, the Heer fielded as many troops against the West as it did against the Soviets.
The West defeated Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine.
Zjukov and Stalin (according ti Chrustjev) both said that it would have been unlikely for the Soviets to win,without the help from the West.

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## Wergeland

A.P. Richelieu said:


> NATO put a stop to Gadaffi after a UNSC resolution.
> The Islamists created the ”Hellhole” afterwards. Now Russia and Turkey is supporting factions in Libya.



Lets say NATO did the right thing as you say.
Removed a non-democratic Ghaddafi.
In that case NATO in the aftermath, has a obligation to create a new state which atleast provide better conditions for Libyans than what Ghaddafi-government could provide, whatever it may cost. Its the only way NATO intervention can be somewhat justified. But reality shows a completely different picture.

Radical insurgent groups and warlords gained power simply because NATO removed a stable functioning government and did not even try to build a new and better government. Chaos thrives in powervacum.

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## Paul2

Corax said:


> You seem to have a hard on about US cruise missiles.. we get it, let it go, you've barked the same bark a hundred times on this thread already. The US has other weapons and choices as well. The Russians have equal cruise missile capability, but you can't seem to see beyond that. Cruise missiles are but one tool in the box. Attacking their nuclear infrastructure would mean a nuclear exchange (MAD scenario), can you not see that in your myopic, limited vision?



Nuclear exchange... Do you know why Russia never did it, because it would've lost.

If USSR, or Russians, OR Beijing were sure they have even 70% chance to win, they would've pushed the button the very second they knew they can do that.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524824505092390917

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524824894042689547

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524833248005738501

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## Corax

Paul2 said:


> Nuclear exchange... Do you know why Russia never did it, because it would've lost.
> 
> If USSR, or Russians, OR Beijing were sure they have even 70% chance to win, they would've pushed the button the very second they knew they can do that.


No, look up the concept of mutually assured destruction (M.A.D). Using your twisted logic, if the USSR or Russians can't win a nuclear exchange with the US, why hasn't the US simply wiped it out already?! Do people who advocate a nuclear holocaust actually have a brain cell?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524812896135421952


Corax said:


> No, look up the concept of mutually assured destruction (M.A.D). Using your twisted logic, if the USSR or Russians can't win a nuclear exchange with the US, why hasn't the US simply wiped it out already?! Do people who advocate a nuclear holocaust actually have a brain cell?


The Russian nuclear doctrine provides for the possibility of using nuclear weapons in the event of an existential threat to the country - Deputy Representative of Russia to the United Nations Polyansky.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524828013354962945


----------



## SalarHaqq

thetutle said:


> Saddam killed a million of his people.



1) Iran lost 280.000 of her citizens in the 1980-1988 Imposed War (not a million).

2) Saddam was enabled by the US as well as other NATO regimes to commit crimes against Iran.

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## Paul2

Corax said:


> if the USSR or Russians can't win a nuclear exchange with the US, why hasn't the US simply wiped it out already?!


Because they are weak


----------



## letsrock

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You obviously have not looked at the economics of WWII.
> Hitler used much more resources against the West than he used against the Soviets.
> The cost of the V-2 program exclusively used against the West was higher than the cost of development and production of the Panther tank.
> In 1944, the Heer fielded as many troops against the West as it did against the Soviets.
> The West defeated Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine.
> Zjukov and Stalin (according ti Chrustjev) both said that it would have been unlikely for the Soviets to win,without the help from the West.



what revisionism.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524832734744563733


----------



## jamal18

Interesting Youtube channel on the political aspects of the war. About 10 minutes.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524626844305305603

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524827954345299970

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## Ali_Baba

Russia's top commander Valery Gerasimov 'is suspended'​








Putin 'purges military top brass as General Gerasimov is suspended'


Oleksiy Arestovych, a veteran of Ukraine's military intelligence and one of President Zelensky's inner circle, suggested Wednesday that General Gerasimov had been suspended.




www.dailymail.co.uk







….. guess everything is still going to plan …..

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524860119867080704

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524868416900939779

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524831534510907393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524824795661180928

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524860119867080704



Russia's blackmail of using nuclear weapons isn't working anymore,nobody gives a sh/t about it. Go remind those drunkards that they are also threatening nuclear armed nations that will also turn Russia into a huge wasteland.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

I think Senator Rand Pail is delaying it only. I doubt he can block it. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524856142228344832

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## Vergennes

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524626844305305603
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524827954345299970



Russians are slowly advancing at the cost of heavy losses,advancing few KMs but losing along the way entire BTGs,just like in that failed crossing attempt,which showed how pathetic was the Russian army.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Novus ordu seclorum said:


> Russian soldiers caught on camera shooting civilian in the back.


Looks like a CG to me. 
I have seen plenty of these made believe video by US Ministry of Truth.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524809729582718978


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Russians are slowly advancing at the cost of heavy losses,advancing few KMs but losing along the way entire BTGs,just like in that failed crossing attempt,which showed how pathetic was the Russian army.




The Russians have turned the whole Ukraine into ruined towns and cities. The Western propaganda has brainwashed the sheeple like you, but Ukrainian leaders foolishly accepted the cannon fodder that the West wants to be, and they're paying a terrible price now.

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## The SC

Vergennes said:


> Russians are slowly advancing at the cost of heavy losses,advancing few KMs but losing along the way entire BTGs,just like in that failed crossing attempt,which showed how pathetic was the Russian army.


Not sure about that..none of those tanks in that crossing had the Z on them..!?

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## Wergeland

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You obviously have not looked at the economics of WWII.
> Hitler used much more resources against the West than he used against the Soviets.
> The cost of the V-2 program exclusively used against the West was higher than the cost of development and production of the Panther tank.
> In 1944, the Heer fielded as many troops against the West as it did against the Soviets.
> The West defeated Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine.
> Zjukov and Stalin (according ti Chrustjev) both said that it would have been unlikely for the Soviets to win,without the help from the West.







see for yourself

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524822691785674754

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## Type59

Vergennes said:


> Russians are slowly advancing at the cost of heavy losses,advancing few KMs but losing along the way entire BTGs,just like in that failed crossing attempt,which showed how pathetic was the Russian army.



War is not pretty. Even the USA gained nothing after lightening victories in Iraq and Afghanistan. Russia despite heavy losses will gain territory.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Russians are slowly advancing at the cost of heavy losses,advancing few KMs but losing along the way entire BTGs,just like in that failed crossing attempt,which showed how pathetic was the Russian army.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524814798214647812

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524841764170911757
Where are the NATO's proxy forces who were carrying those weapons? I already got the answer: They've been eliminated.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524807277001293824

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## CAPRICORN-88

Latest: The Russian, LNR and DNR militia have trapped the Ukraine AZOV neo-NAZI force at Severodonetsk.

Popasnaya is confirmed fallen to the DNR militia by the UK Guardian. Although it has been a few days ago.

But they reported them as Russian instead of DNR militia. Still in denial that Russian and DNR militia are steamrolling them over slowly but surely.

The US and Western MSM have completely ignored the event of a major defeat of Ukrainian Army following a disastrous sea and land attack May 9 in Snake Island. Ukrainian losses included LCU, warplanes and warship.

Instead sought to win a war by disinformation.
Fortunately we have internet today.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524890925511725072


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> they dont get a truck. they get a van. or a civilian car. or. a hummer. or 2 cars.
> 
> 
> 1 truck for M777 one truck for arty rounds. thats 2 trucks.
> 
> does each tube get its own radar? how big is it?
> 
> no, you're looking at 180 trucks and 180 civilian cars.
> 
> you're talking 180 trucks and 180 civilian cars in a land the size of France x3. all going their own way to the front, in a goup of 2 trucks and 2 civilian cars. they dont have to leave at the same time. they leave various depots in 15 minutes intervals going slightly different direction to different locations. there will be no coloumn.
> 
> Its totally doable.


As I said, not being a logistic specialist, I don't know how doable it was, I just know what is required and for an untrained eye it looks like it's a lot of work. 

Maybe they can do what you said? May be not, but I don't see they have all 90 guns ready in battle, that the only thing I would say at the moment.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524814884042579968

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## jhungary

Wergeland said:


> There we go @jhungary
> Finlands economy may take a big hit even before Russia fires a single bullet. Same applies to Germany. Without cheap energy many European economies will take a hit. Its not hard to understand. Its basically like the OPEC Arab oil weaponized in the 1970s. But this time Europe is boycotting itself from cheap energy


You do know FInland was probably the quickest to change to North Sea oil/gas supplies because of their geographical location.

And Gas is really the problem because it require pipeline and specialised ship to transport, and Finland don't depend on Russian Gas. Oil on the other hand, is easy.









Russia Could Cut Gas Supplies To Finland Tomorrow | OilPrice.com


Hours after Moscow warned there would be retaliation for Helsinki’s announcement that it is applying for NATO membership, Finnish media reports that the Kremlin threatened to cut the country off from Russian gas by Friday.




oilprice.com







> Between 60% and 70% of Finland’s natural gas comes from Russia, though the country’s main sources of energy are *oil, biomass and nuclear power*, with *natural gas representing only 5% of the total consumption*



And Finland did have cheap energy as they have nuclear power plant in Finland. That's even cheaper than gas and oil or coal.

Also, do you think the leader of Finland just opt to join NATO one day after get out of bed? They did a thorough research on potential move the Russian can made, I am pretty sure they do know Russia can turn off Finnish gas. So don't you worry about them.


----------



## Wergeland

jhungary said:


> Also, do you think the leader of Finland just opt to join NATO one day after get out of bed? They did a thorough research on potential move the Russian can made, I am pretty sure they do know Russia can turn off Finnish gas. So don't you worry about them.



Leader of Finland may have her own assumtions after being briefed by people around her. Just never underestimate stupidity of people. Leaders are not magicians, they are fallible. People, even those who are apperantly informed one, has a tendency to be incredibly shortsighted and never learn from history. Finnish estalibshment obviously is riding the present media-wave. I am afraid they are gross miscalculting the whole situation. Its a classic example of self-deception, right now assisted by american influence of course.

Of course i worry about the Finns, they are our closest neighbor as we share border with them. We also share border with Russia in the same north. Easy for you to sit on your high horse when Finlands problems wont affect you in any meaningful way. Have you joined the Ukrainian Army in Donbass yet!? I guess the answer is a big no!

May i add that cut of gas supply will be only a small problem compared to what could happen in future.

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## Hamartia Antidote

mhosein said:


> The problem with people is that they do not understand Russia,



Uh huh we know all about your "prowess" in understanding Russia.

You went out of your way to stand out on PDF as the one who spent thread after thread after thread saying there was never going to be a Russian invasion of Ukraine and it was all "lies by the West".


As they said in Aliens "You had your chance Gorman.."

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## jhungary

Wergeland said:


> Leader of Finland may have her own assumtions after being briefed by people around her. Just never underestimate stupidity of people. Leaders are not magicians, they are fallible. People, even those who are apperantly informed one, has a tendency to be incredibly shortsighted and never learn from history. Finnish estalibshment obviously is riding the present media-wave. I am afraid they are gross miscalculting the whole situation. Its a classic example of self-deception, right now assisted by american influence of course.
> 
> Of course i worry about the Finns, they are our closest neighbor as we share border with them. Easy for you to sit on your high horse when Finlands peoblems wont affect you in any way. Have you joined the Ukrainian Army in Donbass yet!? I guess the answer is a big no!


As the report said, Gas is not depend upon on Finland (What? 5%?) and they have nuclear power which normally running on 50-70% capacity which have plenty of room to surge. Which can cover the gas need easy, As I said, oil is another problem but they can switch to North Sea oil field with ease?

And lol, My wife is Swedish and her family have some Finnish root. I am also Swedish by marriage, get the citizenship from her. So yes, I am not on the high horse there, and if you have to count, we are closer to Finland than you.. AS she said, we are okay to pay 30 Kronor more for gas, if you don't, you should move to Russia

And yeah, of course you can say shit when you are sitting at your home in Norway. Well, at least I was in Ukraine training the people who are going to F with the Russia maybe you should join the Russian and try to fight them instead of shooting your big mouth here. LOL Talk is cheap, I mean, you can talk all day, but when you are needed to put money where your mouth is, suddenly you are no where to be found on the line, am i rite? :LOL:


----------



## Elvin

Type59 said:


> Germany and Japan were considered developed countries pre 1939.



Destroyed and nuked and lost yet still wealthy.

Well….


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524742861828370433


----------



## Wergeland

jhungary said:


> As the report said, Gas is not depend upon on Finland (What? 5%?) and they have nuclear power which normally running on 50-70% capacity which have plenty of room to surge. Which can cover the gas need easy, As I said, oil is another problem but they can switch to North Sea oil field with ease?
> 
> And lol, My wife is Swedish and her family have some Finnish root. I am also Swedish by marriage, get the citizenship from her. So yes, I am not on the high horse there, and if you have to count, we are closer to Finland than you.. AS she said, we are okay to pay 30 Kronor more for gas, if you don't, you should move to Russia
> 
> And yeah, of course you can say shit when you are sitting at your home in Norway. Well, at least I was in Ukraine training the people who are going to F with the Russia maybe you should join the Russian and try to fight them instead of shooting your big mouth here. LOL Talk is cheap, I mean, you can talk all day, but when you are needed to put money where your mouth is, suddenly you are no where to be found on the line, am i rite? :LOL:



Every second week you change your nationality. Just weird. Since you came back to this forum youve been Australian, Jamaican, British, American and even Chinese. Now youre Swedish !?

I am leaving out all those claims about being in so many different forces and having connection to numerous intelligence services and armed forces. Now youve been in Ukraine too??

No one with common sense is gonna buy this crab.

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## CAPRICORN-88

*More Russian Gas imports in the pipeline for China. *







Celebration: China celebrates the start of construction of the Power of Siberia trunk line Photo: AP
China to launch trillion-dollar gas pipeline expansion, eyeing more Russian imports​By 2025, China plans to extend its massive gas pipeline grids to 163,000 kilometres, requiring capital expending of up to $1.9 trillion

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524845631667327002


----------



## jhungary

Type59 said:


> War is not pretty. Even the USA gained nothing after lightening victories in Iraq and Afghanistan. Russia despite heavy losses will gain territory.


Well, we weren't there to annex Iraq and Afghanistan to begin with, if we want to do it, Iraq and Afghanistan would be in US hand and would be 51st and 52nd State, as we have had complete control for decade on both country. But then what for?? 

On the other hand, I don't think Russian occupied land in Ukraine are holdable, that would mean a long term occupation, which mean long term sanction and long term troop commitment as you will expect insurgency. The last time Russia did that (Well, the Soviet Union did that), it break them apart. There are no way Russia can economically took over the land they are currently occupied in Ukraine in long term. 

Think of it like this, when US took over Afghanistan, it cost around 3 billions a week to just station troop there, with fighting, equipment lost, and both Military and Economic aide, you are looking at a price tag about 1.5 to 2 trillions just in a year (Hence people keep saying we spend 20 trillion on Afghanistan over 20 years doing nothing) and while US can afford that with 26 Trillion economy, that amount is the entire Russia GDP, which mean they can probably do it if their people do not eat or spend any money at all....


----------



## Elvin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524774876019675138

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## Type59

Elvin said:


> Destroyed and nuked and lost yet still wealthy.
> 
> Well….
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524742861828370433



They still had educational institutions and qualified individuals to rebuild. Of course US spent huge resources to rebuild, no denying that.


----------



## jhungary

Wergeland said:


> Every second week you change your nationality. Just weird. Since you came back to this forum youve been Australian, Jamaican, British, American and even Chinese. Now youre Swedish!?
> 
> I am leaving out all those claims about being in so many different forces and having connection to numerous intelligence services and armed forces. Now youve been in Ukraine too??
> 
> No one with common sense is gonna buy this crab.


Dude, everybody know me here know that I married a Swedish Woman here, this is not new, that was even covered when I was interviewed in this forum back in 2017





__





Members Interview: Jhungary


Hope you all enjoy, Thank you @jhungary for giving us the time. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Introduction: My name is Gary, I was born on the 1980 in the United States. My father is a Mexican-American hailed from Central Mexico...



defence.pk







> I was seriously wounded in this tour, I was send back stateside and afterward discharged from the Army, afterward I work in private sectors in the US, UK and Canada, and then I help a friend of mine train local police in rural Kansas town, *and move to Sweden in 2008 and got married there.*



But of course, no, you are RIGHT, that is a elaborate scam I drummed up 5 years ago so that I can scam you when Russian invaded Ukraine so I can use it to get it over you with some Finnish issue. *LOL YOU GOT ME THERE, I SURRENDER.....*

HAHAHAHA

Also, does that mean I can either see into the future or can travel back in time?? LOL ALL-SO Since when did I claim to be Jamacian? Well, now THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN COOL, MAN.......

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## Wergeland

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *More Russian Gas imports in the pipeline for China. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Celebration: China celebrates the start of construction of the Power of Siberia trunk line Photo: AP
> China to launch trillion-dollar gas pipeline expansion, eyeing more Russian imports​By 2025, China plans to extend its massive gas pipeline grids to 163,000 kilometres, requiring capital expending of up to $1.9 trillion



Europe giving away cheap energy to a booming China with 1,4 billion consumers.

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## Elvin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524647935203590144


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Gas prices are displayed at a gas station in Washington, D.C., the United States, on May 11, 2022. U.S. consumer inflation in April surged by 8.3 percent from a year ago, marking the second straight month of inflation over 8 percent, the U.S. Labor Department reported Wednesday


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524854368503316485


----------



## jhungary

LOL @Wergeland 

What?? Cat got your Tongue?? LOL.


----------



## Wood

Elvin said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524647935203590144


Putin looks so old these days.


----------



## Type59

jhungary said:


> Well, we weren't there to annex Iraq and Afghanistan to begin with, if we want to do it, Iraq and Afghanistan would be in US hand and would be 51st and 52nd State, as we have had complete control for decade on both country. But then what for??
> 
> On the other hand, I don't think Russian occupied land in Ukraine are holdable, that would mean a long term occupation, which mean long term sanction and long term troop commitment as you will expect insurgency. The last time Russia did that (Well, the Soviet Union did that), it break them apart. There are no way Russia can economically took over the land they are currently occupied in Ukraine in long term.
> 
> Think of it like this, when US took over Afghanistan, it cost around 3 billions a week to just station troop there, with fighting, equipment lost, and both Military and Economic aide, you are looking at a price tag about 1.5 to 2 trillions just in a year (Hence people keep saying we spend 20 trillion on Afghanistan over 20 years doing nothing) and while US can afford that with 26 Trillion economy, that amount is the entire Russia GDP, which mean they can probably do it if their people do not eat or spend any money at all....



What was US invasion and occupation about then? US wanted to control these nations through selected leaders like Chalabi. This did not work out as planned because locals were too stubborn 😊

Insurgency is unlikely to be widespread in Russian annexed territory because pro Ukrainian population will relocate to Ukraine.

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## Wergeland

jhungary said:


> LOL @Wergeland
> 
> What?? Cat got your Tongue?? LOL.



Is that what people have been saying about you?


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Wergeland said:


> Europe giving away cheap energy to a booming China with 1,4 billion consumers.


China is not complaining. She got a great deal from Gasprom. India is laughing as well. 

Now Japan suddenly realized that she is missing out on the greatest deal of the decade after joining the sanction against Russia. 

No wonder Russia Gas production is up by 60%.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524887765522841600

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524887981592567833

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## jhungary

Type59 said:


> What was US invasion and occupation about then? US wanted to control these nations through selected leaders like Chalabi. This did not work out as planned because locals were too stubborn 😊



Well, I don't know, I am not a fan of the Iraqi Freedom, I think we should not have invaded, but for Afghanistan, we are going to get OBL.

We were never in it to get the resource and land, if we do, you will see how we force Iraqi into signing contract with Exxon Mobile or BP, instead most of their oil is signing to Chinese Government. And What resource we can get from Afghanistan? Sand?? We aren't there to annex Iraq and Afghanistan, I can tell you that. As I said, if we want to do it, they would be our 51st and 52 state, again, we have had complete control of the entire country for over 10 years

So, I can't tell you what's that for. In all honesty



Type59 said:


> Insurgency is unlikely to be widespread in Russian annexed territory because pro Ukrainian population will relocate to Ukraine.


There are already insurgency in Russian occupied Ukraine, and I don't know are you serious when you say "Pro-Ukrianian Population will relocated to Ukraine".....I mean, if that is doable then I guess that is a very easy fix on Insurgency, just send all these people that are against you away.........Yes, effectively, you are saying if there are no insurgent, there will not be an insurgency........

No, you can't do that, they are in that for the land, and will see Russian Occupation Force gone or until they died, that's why you have an insurgency, and that is what insurgency is all about....



Wergeland said:


> Is that what people have been saying to you?


lol, you gone all radio silent after I "Admitted" to scam the entire forum with a 5 years elaborate scam. Not me

And *DUDE, YOU'VE GOT CALLED OUT TWICE.*........

So, speak for yourself.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Ukraine war’s geographic reality: Russia has seized much of the east​



The New York Times
Soldiers with the Ukrainian Territorial Defense Forces in the Zaporizhzhia region in southeast Ukraine on May 1, 2022. While Moscow failed in in its initial, sweeping objectives, Russian forces have seized a wide swath of southern Ukraine.
Published May 11, 2022
Updated May 11, 2022
POKROVSK (Ukraine) — Russia’s nearly three-month-old invasion of neighbouring Ukraine has been punctuated by flawed planning, poor intelligence, barbarity and wanton destruction. But obscured in the daily fighting is the geographic reality that Russia has made gains on the ground.
The Russian Defense Ministry said Tuesday (May 10) that its forces in eastern Ukraine had advanced to the border between Donetsk and Luhansk, the two Russian-speaking provinces where Moscow-backed separatists have been fighting Ukraine’s army for eight years.

To read more.


https://www.todayonline.com/world/u...c-reality-russia-has-seized-much-east-1895906

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## Wergeland

jhungary said:


> lol, you gone all radio silent after I "Admitted" to scam the entire forum with a 5 years elaborate scam. Not me
> 
> So, speak for yourself.



So you posted some years ago youre married with a swede. I dont see any reason for me to comment on that.


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524790311687540737

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524798828360224769
Russia's most important and modern close air support system, but the vibration problems are quite scary. As the war progresses, the image of the Russian defense industry continues to suffer from all sides.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Biden says he is worried Putin does not have a way out of Ukraine war​





Russian President Vladimir Putin delivers a speech during a military parade on Victory Day, which marks the 77th anniversary of the victory over Nazi Germany in World War Two, in Red Square in central Moscow, Russia May 9, 2022. Sputnik/Mikhail Metzel/Pool via REUTERS
Published May 10, 2022
Updated May 10, 2022

POTOMAC, Md. : U.S. President Joe Biden said on Monday he is worried that Russian President Vladimir Putin does not have a way out of the Ukraine war, and Biden said he was trying to figure out what to do about that.
Biden, speaking at a political fundraiser in a Washington suburb, said Putin had mistakenly believed the invasion of Ukraine would break up NATO and break up the European Union.

Instead, the United States and many European countries have rallied to Ukraine's side.

Russia's assault on Kyiv was beaten back in March by strong Ukrainian resistance. Russia, which calls the invasion "a special military operation," poured more troops into Ukraine for a huge offensive last month in the eastern part of the country but its gains have been slow.

Biden said Putin is a very calculating man and the problem he worries about now is that the Russian leader "doesn't have a way out right now, and I'm trying to figure out what we do about that."

(Reporting by Jeff Mason; Writing by Eric Beech; Editing by Sandra Maler)

*Make me wonder if Biden is the President of the USA. *
_*A litany of survival awaits him at home due to a war of attritions US and allies has created and he voicing his concern for the enemy Russia. *_

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## jhungary

Wergeland said:


> So you posted some years ago youre married with a swede. I dont see any reason for me to comment on that.


But it was a "Fake" lol.......As much as what or most of what you said.

I mean, I can already sees it, you are the kind of people when someone come to you and said "I served in the Army and the Navy Special Force", and the first thing you say is "Get Outta Here" It never occur to you people may have done more things than you, have more life experience than you. And you call it "Fake"

Well, of course, not saying everyone claim to have served in the Green Beret and Navy Seal are real, of course some of them are fake, but people like you who only see surface, if you have ever care enough to listen to what people have to say, instead of judging it by the surface, you will have a clearer picture on what that person is.

There is a old Chinese Proverb used to describe people like you. "Frog inside the bottom of a well"

So, let there be a lesson.

Also, I asked when did I claim to be a Jamaican? So yes, you have a reason to comment on that.


----------



## K_Bin_W

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Biden says he is worried Putin does not have a way out of Ukraine war​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian President Vladimir Putin delivers a speech during a military parade on Victory Day, which marks the 77th anniversary of the victory over Nazi Germany in World War Two, in Red Square in central Moscow, Russia May 9, 2022. Sputnik/Mikhail Metzel/Pool via REUTERS
> Published May 10, 2022
> Updated May 10, 2022
> 
> POTOMAC, Md. : U.S. President Joe Biden said on Monday he is worried that Russian President Vladimir Putin does not have a way out of the Ukraine war, and Biden said he was trying to figure out what to do about that.
> Biden, speaking at a political fundraiser in a Washington suburb, said Putin had mistakenly believed the invasion of Ukraine would break up NATO and break up the European Union.
> 
> Instead, the United States and many European countries have rallied to Ukraine's side.
> 
> Russia's assault on Kyiv was beaten back in March by strong Ukrainian resistance. Russia, which calls the invasion "a special military operation," poured more troops into Ukraine for a huge offensive last month in the eastern part of the country but its gains have been slow.
> 
> Biden said Putin is a very calculating man and the problem he worries about now is that the Russian leader "doesn't have a way out right now, and I'm trying to figure out what we do about that."
> 
> (Reporting by Jeff Mason; Writing by Eric Beech; Editing by Sandra Maler)
> 
> *Make me wonder if Biden is the President of the USA. *
> _*A litany of survival awaits him at home due to a war of attritions US and allies has created and he voicing his concern for the enemy Russia. *_


Putin should learn from Amreeka how to run with tail between the legs and then pay spin masters for a good cover up.

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## Wergeland

jhungary said:


> But it was a "Fake" lol.......As much as what or most of what you said.
> 
> I mean, I can already sees it, you are the kind of people when someone come to you and said "I served in the Army and the Navy Special Force", and the first thing you say is "Get Outta Here" It never occur to you people may have done more things than you, have more life experience than you. And you call it "Fake"
> 
> Well, of course, not saying everyone claim to have served in the Green Beret and Navy Seal are real, of course some of them are fake, but people like you who only see surface, if you have ever care enough to listen to what people have to say, instead of judging it by the surface, you will have a clearer picture on what that person is.
> 
> So, let there be a lesson.
> 
> Also, I asked when did I claim to be a Jamaican? So yes, you have a reason to comment on that.



I have not said youre fake or whatever that means. Just that judging from your post history i have a hard time connecting the dots.

On internet, anbody can claim to be anyone.

I can recall youve mentioned you were raised in Jamaica or somethin in that order. Also youve mentioned being a Kiwi. Not gonna go back and read all those comment now.

Anyway, if youve have been and done all those things youve mentioned, i will say the credit goes to you. I wont discredit somebodys life experiences and hard work.

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## jhungary

Wergeland said:


> I have not said youre fake or whatever that means. Just that judging from your post history i have a hard time connecting the dots.
> 
> On internet, anbody can claim to be anyone.
> 
> I can recall youve mentioned you were raised in Jamaica or somethin in that order. Also youve mentioned being a Kiwi. Not gonna go back and read all those comment now.
> 
> Anyway, if youve have been and done all those things youve mentioned, i will say the credit goes to you. I wont discredit somebodys life experiences and hard work.


Look, I have nothing against ya.

I am open to anyone and anything, I will not discounted someone said until there are very obvious keys or evidence suggesting that someone is a dud, that's another story. I mean, you do your things, I do mine, but I will NEVER suggest or say you were not from Norway, I mean, you can be a Norge and does not share the same view on question like EU, NATO. Met enough of these type of people in real life to know they exist. But to discount someone like that before you even get to the bottom of it is just a cheap shot in my opinion.

At the end of the day, it's about the point we are talking, not who we claim we are. And I hope you understand that.

As for Jamaica, I don't recall saying that, and a quick search on Post History (you can search Post History here in case you do not know) did not come up any result of me saying that, so I guess you mix me up with some other dude.


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## Wergeland

jhungary said:


> Look, I have nothing against ya.
> 
> I am open to anyone and anything, I will not discounted someone said until there are very obvious keys or evidence suggesting that someone is a dud, that's another story. I mean, you do your things, I do mine, but I will NEVER suggest or say you were not from Norway, I mean, you can be a Norge and does not share the same view on question like EU, NATO. Met enough of these type of people in real life to know they exist. But to discount someone like that before you even get to the bottom of it is just a cheap shot in my opinion.
> 
> At the end of the day, it's about the point we are talking, not who we claim we are. And I hope you understand that.
> 
> As for Jamaica, I don't recall saying that, and a quick search on Post History (you can search Post History here in case you do not know) did not come up any result of me saying that, so I guess you mix me up with some other dude.



Of course.
This forum would be a dull place if everyone agreed all the time.

Yes our views on NATO and EU are different but we still both want the best for our countries and neighbors. We obviously have different views on how to best way achieve that.

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## F-22Raptor

*Russian forces may be abandoning efforts at a wide encirclement of Ukrainian troops along the Izyum-Slovyansk-Debaltseve line in favor of shallower encirclements of Severodonetsk and Lysychansk. *Russian forces likely control almost all of Rubizhne as of May 12 and have likely seized the town of Voevodivka, north of Severdonetsk.[1] They will likely launch a ground offensive on or around Severodonetsk in the coming days. The relative success of Russian operations in this area combined with their failure to advance from Izyum and the notable decline in the energy of that attempted advance suggest that they may be giving up on the Izyum axis. Reports that Russian forces in Popasna are advancing north, toward Severodonetsk-Lysychansk, rather than east toward the Slovyansk-Debaltseve highway, support this hypothesis.

*It is unclear if Russian forces can encircle, let alone capture, Severodonetsk and Lysychansk even if they focus their efforts on that much-reduced objective.* Russian offensives have bogged down every time they hit a built-up area throughout this war, and these areas are unlikely to be different. Continued and expanding reports of demoralization and refusals to fight among Russian units suggest that the effective combat power of Russian troops in the east continues to be low and may drop further. If the Russians abandon efforts to advance from Izyum, moreover, Ukrainian forces would be able to concentrate their efforts on defending Severodonetsk-Lysychansk or, in the worst case, breaking a Russian encirclement before those settlements fall.

*The Ukrainian counteroffensive around Kharkiv is also forcing the Russian command to make hard choices, as it was likely intended to do. *The UK Ministry of Defense reports that Russian forces pulled back from Kharkiv have been sent toward Rubizhne and Severodonetsk but at the cost of ceding ground in Kharkiv from which the Russians had been shelling the city.[2] The counteroffensive is also forcing Russian units still near the city to focus their bombardment on the attacking Ukrainian troops rather than continuing their attacks on the city itself. The Ukrainian counteroffensive near Kharkiv is starting to look very similar to the counteroffensive that ultimately drove Russian troops away from Kyiv and out of western Ukraine entirely, although it is too soon to tell if the Russians will make a similar decision here.






Institute for the Study of War


Russian forces may be abandoning efforts at a wide encirclement of Ukrainian troops along the Izyum-Slovyansk-Debaltseve line in favor of shallower encirclements of Severodonetsk and Lysychansk. Russian forces likely control almost all of Rubizhne as of




www.understandingwar.org

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## Apollon

Flight of falcon said:


> Here in the USA and Canada everyone is getting tired of Ukrainian war. People are starting to question why we are contributing billions to the war which we have no part in. All the talk of billions of dollars of aid is making people mad when we have to pay record high fuel prices and highest inflation in decades.
> Why are we wasting money on a war started by one clown name Zelenski when this money is better served at home.
> One change: Thank God most Canadian channels have moved news about Ukraine from the top news every hour down to the third or fourth position. No more drama and propaganda on TV 24/7.



You want be a russian colony in 20 years? Guess not. Thats why its important to crush the orcs.

Btw Putun started the war, not Zelenski. Corrected your russian propaganda

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524919774228119555

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524916166791135251

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524905222627381254

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## Sineva

Freedom of speech?,only if you tow the approved western/nato line on the war it seems.
You could imagine the outrage in the nato nations if the headline was: Country XYZ arrests "pro ukrainian" blogger on behalf of russian government.
Still,we really shouldnt forget that spain has a bit of a prior history with fascism.....

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522156075029393408

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524915490912468992


----------



## thetutle

SalarHaqq said:


> 1) Iran lost 280.000 of her citizens in the 1980-1988 Imposed War (not a million).
> 
> 2) Saddam was enabled by the US as well as other NATO regimes to commit crimes against Iran.


So are you sad to see him gone? Do you still cry about it?


----------



## sammuel

SalarHaqq said:


> 1) Iran lost 280.000 of her citizens in the 1980-1988 Imposed War (not a million).
> 
> 2) Saddam was enabled by the US as well as other NATO regimes to commit crimes against Iran.



War with Iran could have stopped after two years , But your Ayatollah refused a so the war lasted 8 years. nb And ended at about the same lines. 

Pointless casualties for 6 years and your Ayatollah shares/bear the responsibility for that.

~


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## A.P. Richelieu

Wergeland said:


> Lets say NATO did the right thing as you say.
> Removed a non-democratic Ghaddafi.
> In that case NATO in the aftermath, has a obligation to create a new state which atleast provide better conditions for Libyans than what Ghaddafi-government could provide, whatever it may cost. Its the only way NATO intervention can be somewhat justified. But reality shows a completely different picture.
> 
> Radical insurgent groups and warlords gained power simply because NATO removed a stable functioning government and did not even try to build a new and better government. Chaos thrives in powervacum.


The responsibility for the situation is squarely at the Islamist and War Lords together with their supporters.
It is also a failure of Libyan leadership.
If Gaddafi had been a good leader, he would have prepared the society for self rule, but since he was an awful leader who struck rich through oil, he did not.

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## sammuel

Elvin said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524647935203590144



Seems the purpose of this " special operation " was :

Get as many chunks of Ukraine as you can. They failed to take the whole of Ukraine saw now they would settle for chunks in the south .

~


----------



## Viet

Sineva said:


> Freedom of speech?,only if you tow the approved western/nato line on the war it seems.
> You could imagine the outrage in the nato nations if the headline was: Country XYZ arrests "pro ukrainian" blogger on behalf of russian government.
> Still,we really shouldnt forget that spain has a bit of a prior history with fascism.....
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522156075029393408


Freedom is relative. Freedom of speech doesn’t give you the right to say lies, insult others, spew violent speeches, incite hatred.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524856678381912065

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## SalarHaqq

sammuel said:


> War with Iran could have stopped after two years , But your Ayatollah refused a so the war lasted 8 years. nb And ended at about the same lines.
> 
> Pointless casualties for 6 years and your Ayatollah shares/bear the responsibility for that.



This contention is as flawed as it is oft repeated by the anti-IR front. Encouraged by his western and eastern backers, Saddam was not offering standard ceasefire conditions. Namely, he refused to acknowledge the fact that Iraq had been the aggressor, rejected having to pay reparations and fell short on other such key aspects.

Moreover, we saw how barely two years after the end of the Iran-Iraq war, Saddam ordered the invasion of another country (Kuwait). Even more to the point, in effect Saddam launched a second aggression against Iran through his MKO terrorist proxy only six days after Iran agreed to the terms of UN Resolution 598 putting a halt to the fighting.

This is what the Saddam regime meant by "ceasefire". So to assume that Iranian acceptance of the 1982 proposal would effectively and definitely have stopped the war is speculative at best, and not very likely in fact.

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## CAPRICORN-88

*Little Chinese girl’s analysis of Russia-Ukraine conflict through the perspective of Romance of Three Kingdom receives praise from Philippine Foreign Affairs Secretary*
By Global TimesPublished: May 12, 2022





The Philippine Foreign Affairs Secretary, Teodoro Locsin Jr., praised the girl's commantary of Russia-Ukraine conflict as the 'smartest'. Source: Twitter

A video footage of a Chinese girl comparing Russia-Ukraine conflicts to the Romance of the Three Kingdoms has gone viral on the internet. The girl was then praised by the Philippine Foreign Affairs Secretary, Teodoro Locsin Jr., who commented that "Her generation of Chinese is the hope of China and the world", as reported by the media.

This little Chinese girl in school uniform is asked by her father* "What do you think about the situation between Russia and Ukraine?"* Although the question seems to be a little "beyond basic" for a school-aged child, the girl appears to only think about it for a moment, and then she starts confidently answering it in English.

The little girl first expressed sympathy for those who suffered in the war, then said that she had recently read the Romance of the Three Kingdoms and thought the situation between Russia and Ukraine was similar to it.

*"The US-led NATO is like the Cao Cao force," she said. "Russia is like the Jiang Dong under Sun Quan." *Ukraine is the battleground of Jingzhou, caught between both sides in the dispute, constantly teasing the nerves of the two.

The girl then further analyzed the situation: assuming that Jingzhou is captured by Cao Cao, "there is no strategic buffer zone." Cao Cao can directly go down the river, which is a great threat to Sun Quan who feels threatened by this. In this predicament, Sun Quan decides he cannot sit still and die, thus he starts the Battle of Chibi.

*"Look at the conflict between Russia and Ukraine today, there is no difference from the time of the Three Kingdoms," the little girl says in the video. NATO wants to expand eastward in Ukraine, and Russia, which is close to the door, cannot sit still, so the conflict finally broke out.*

When asked about the "fate" of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, the little girl said, "Think about Liu Cong." In history, Liu Cong directly surrendered to Cao Cao without a fight, causing Jingzhou to be acquired effortlessly, and then gradually disappeared from the stage of history.

"Although a comparison with the Three Kingdoms, is not rigorous enough to draw a perfect analogy of the situation between Russia and Ukraine, the little girl clearly realized that the essence of the conflict lies in the continuous eastward expansion of NATO led by the US. She has integrated what she has learned from the story with what she learned from the news and then she was able to express her opinions in fluent English, this level of analysis surpasses that of many of her peers and even some adults," said one netizen on the Chinese social media platform Sina Weibo.

Many netizens praised the child for her clear thinking and personal views despite her young age, and also expressed appreciation for the family education she received and that has allowed her to think independently.

In particular, the video impressed Teodoro Locsin Jr., the Philippine Foreign Affairs Secretary, who retweeted it many times on his Twitter account and was still recommending it as of May 9.

"This is the smartest commentary on the situation between Russia and Ukraine to date," the Foreign Affairs Secretary said, praising the little girl, "Her generation of Chinese is the hope of China and the world."

The Foreign Affairs Secretary even expressed his desire of possibly sending his granddaughter to China for education, "I want her to be a little girl with great insights like the one in the video."

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## thetutle

sammuel said:


> War with Iran could have stopped after two years , But your Ayatollah refused a so the war lasted 8 years. nb And ended at about the same lines.
> 
> Pointless casualties for 6 years and your Ayatollah shares/bear the responsibility for that.
> 
> ~


But Iraq was bankrupted and destroyed. Which necessitated Iraq's invasion of Kuwait. I think Iran did the right thing.

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## Viet

sammuel said:


> Seems the purpose of this " special operation " was :
> 
> Get as many chunks of Ukraine as you can. They failed to take the whole of Ukraine saw now they would settle for chunks in the south .
> 
> ~


Putin acts like a thief. Nothing else.

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## thetutle

Wergeland said:


> Leader of Finland may have her own assumtions after being briefed by people around her. Just never underestimate stupidity of people. Leaders are not magicians, they are fallible. People, even those who are apperantly informed one, has a tendency to be incredibly shortsighted and never learn from history. Finnish estalibshment obviously is riding the present media-wave. I am afraid they are gross miscalculting the whole situation. Its a classic example of self-deception, right now assisted by american influence of course.
> 
> Of course i worry about the Finns, they are our closest neighbor as we share border with them. We also share border with Russia in the same north. Easy for you to sit on your high horse when Finlands problems wont affect you in any meaningful way. Have you joined the Ukrainian Army in Donbass yet!? I guess the answer is a big no!
> 
> May i add that cut of gas supply will be only a small problem compared to what could happen in future.


Still a bit buthurt over Finland joining NATO. Thats ok. Nothing you can do.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88



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## A.P. Richelieu

letsrock said:


> what revisionism.


Revisionism is denying Stalin and Zjukov.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

CAPRICORN-88 said:


>


IF even a small Chinese girl understands what really cause the Ukraine-Russia war. 

Why can't many of the adults?

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## A.P. Richelieu

Wergeland said:


> see for yourself


That does not show the economics of war.


----------



## thetutle

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> IF even a small Chinese girl understands what really cause the Ukraine-Russia war.
> 
> Why can't many of the adults?


I wonder If she can analyse the circumstances that led to famine in china that killed 20 million people in the 1960's. That might be more useful so it doesn't happen to her country again.

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## CAPRICORN-88

thetutle said:


> I wonder If she can analyse the circumstances that led to famine in china that killed 20 million people in the 1960's. That might be more useful so it doesn't happen to her country again.


She certainly can and so can many Chinese. The Chinese unlike their Smart Western Alec understand this - the weather and mother nature is beyond their control.

Look at the current heatwave affecting India now or the zillions of hurricanes hitting the US today.

We wonder why the US can't control them?

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## CAPRICORN-88

thetutle said:


> I wonder If she can analyse the circumstances that led to famine in china that killed 20 million people in the 1960's. That might be more useful so it doesn't happen to her country again.


BTW for your limited knowledge and lack of understanding of history, the US and West had imposed sanction on China then.

Although both Canada and Australia were willing to help by selling and shipping wheat to China, the US Administration overrule the sales claiming that they violated sanctions. Just like what they did to baby formulae powder, medicines, etc for Iraq, Syria, etc. We deemed these acts as INHUMAN. What do you think? Bomb them babies instead.

So you see the US and West has BLOOD in their hiddened hand over the death of allegedly 20 million hungry victims. All because the US and allies were wishing for a regime change in China.
Just like what they did to Ukraine in 2014 ousting a democratically and duly elected President and replacing him with a clown.

But retribution and karma is what is happening to the US and allies today.

We are just watching and will not uttered silly comments like many of you askew individuals who does not know what they are doing.

Silly girls.

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## Soldier35

Published footage of the army evacuators BREM-1 in Ukraine. The video shows the evacuation of the damaged T-72B3 tank from the battlefield. In the current conditions, the repair of military equipment in Ukraine is carried out in an aggregate way. The main task is to restore and return equipment to the front as quickly as possible.






Russian troops and militia special forces, with the help of anti-tank systems, delivered an accurate missile attack on repeater towers in Ukraine. Soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine installed surveillance cameras on the towers and used them to correct the fire of the artillery of the Ukrainian army. With the help of ATGM guided missiles, all targets were destroyed.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Anyone who is interested on US NED involvement in Ukraine should refers to this 10,000 page factsheet just released by China.

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## DF41

PakFactor said:


> Honestly, it's a good strategy US is employing to weaken Russia and China, I would have done the same thing I see nothing wrong with it.
> 
> You see nothing stopped Russia from supplying arms to African or Middle Eastern countries to use against Western Forces to get them bogged down and killed. The same goes for China, why fight directly if you can cause death by a thousand cuts? Those who failed to adapt are Russia and China on inflicting damage. Case Study: Russia waited almost 4-5 years to come to it's ally need in Syria who was on his knees after his army was destroy. Common sense would have dictated to come early to stop the bleeding as the Western forces just did in Ukraine, sitting on one's f#cking *** doesn't correct a situation.


Then dont be hypocritical moaning and screaming Russia is the attacker.
When Russia is the defender compelled to protect russian speakers that the USA NATO been killing over the last 8 years using Ukrnazis as proxy.

That seen and warned about from 2015


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498741741004148736
And how USA NATO and the West controlling Zelensky like a puppet eunuch in video below

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## PakFactor

DF41 said:


> Then dont be hypocritical moaning and screaming Russia is the attacker.
> When Russia is the defender compelled to protect russian speakers that the USA NATO been killing over the last 8 years using Ukrnazis as proxy.
> 
> That seen and warned about from 2015
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498741741004148736
> And how USA NATO and the West controlling Zelensky like a puppet eunuch in video below



Oh just a little correction I’m not moaning or screaming rather I’m encouraging both sides Russian and Ukrainian/West to keep fighting and killing each other for all I care.


----------



## DF41

Corax said:


> . But it will take time, many year, maybe a decade.


USA better get on with it.  

As by end of this year, USA and NATO and Japan will be spiralling into bankruptcy and their own black holes





 









ARK's Wood sees global recession, blames market selloff on Fed hike plan


The global economy is in recession and recent stock market volatility is a sign investors believe that the Federal Reserve's plan to continue hiking interest rates is too aggressive, star stock picker Cathie Wood said in a webinar on Tuesday. Wood, whose ARK Innovation ETF outperformed all...




finance.yahoo.com






"Bill Gates says there's a 'strong argument' we're about to see a global economic slowdown" https://news.yahoo.com/bill-gates-says-theres-strong-110641908.html

"Rocket CEO: ‘We feel strongly there will be a recession here in the coming quarters’" https://finance.yahoo.com/video/rocket-ceo-feel-strongly-recession-133528164.html


.

*🇨🇳🇨🇳🇨🇳 *WANG SUI WANG WANG SUI 萬歲 萬 萬歲* 🇨🇳🇨🇳🇨🇳*

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## Sineva

Viet said:


> Freedom is relative. Freedom of speech doesn’t give you the right to say lies, insult others, spew violent speeches, incite hatred.


Its one thing for spain to lock someone up for violating its laws,its another thing entirely for the spanish to do it on behalf of the ukis,especially when they claim that this person is supposedly guilty of "treason".
This is less "hate speech",than it is "thought crime",still considering whats happened to people like julian assange its really not that surprising.
We seem to be entering an era of neo fascism in the west,the disturbing thing is just how many people seem perfectly happy with that.What makes this especially disturbing is that the crimes of fascism are still [just] within the realm of living memory.

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## WotTen

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> IF even a small Chinese girl understands what really cause the Ukraine-Russia war.
> 
> Why can't many of the adults?



The Western media and governments are absolute masters of propaganda and mind control. They have to be. In any democracy, job number one is to fool the people well enough to get elected while you implement the agenda of those who funded your campaign.

Noam Chomsky's famous book _Manufacturing Consent_ explains it all.

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## thetutle

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> She certainly can and so can many Chinese. The Chinese unlike their Smart Western Alec understand this - the weather and mother nature is beyond their control.


If this is the extent of her knowledge and understanding I expect to be lacking food aid parcels for her. I hope you’re wrong


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## CAPRICORN-88

WotTen said:


> The Western media and governments are absolute masters of propaganda and mind control. They have to be. In any democracy, job number one is to fool the people well enough to get elected while you implement the agenda of those who funded your campaign.
> 
> Noam Chomsky's famous book _Manufacturing Consent_ explains it all.another


Here is another book. 
The Russia Scare: Fake news or geniune threat.


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## Sineva

sammuel said:


> War with Iran could have stopped after two years , But your Ayatollah refused a so the war lasted 8 years. nb And ended at about the same lines.
> 
> Pointless casualties for 6 years and your Ayatollah shares/bear the responsibility for that.
> 
> ~


Yes,and if churchill had only accepted hitlers offer of peace after dunkirk think how many lives could`ve been saved.  🤪
Now imagine for a second if the west,the arabs and the soviets hadnt propped up saddam,imagine an iranian victory in say 1986[or likely even earlier] which lead to saddams ouster,there would`ve been no iraqi invasion of kuwait,no desert storm,no hundreds of thousands dead from un sanctions,no operation iraqi freedom,no us occupation,no insurgency,no sunni-shiite near civil war,etc,etc,etc....
Just imagine all of the countless numbers of lives that would`ve been saved by the ouster of one single man........
It is truly one of the greatest tragedies in the recent history of the middle east.😠

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## CAPRICORN-88

thetutle said:


> If this is the extent of her knowledge and understanding I expect to be lacking food aid parcels for her. I hope you’re wrong


You have missed the main point in all these. Read the Global Times article before you opined.

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## DF41

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> IF even a small Chinese girl understands what really cause the Ukraine-Russia war.
> 
> Why can't many of the adults?











Ukraine, Nato and the Three Kingdoms: what a Chinese schoolgirl knows


Letters | Ukraine, Nato and the Three Kingdoms: what a Chinese schoolgirl knows Letters Published: 2:30pm, 8 May, 2022 A child stares out of a train window as families flee the eastern city of Kramatorsk in Donbas, Ukraine, on April 4. Photo: AFP A short video has gone viral. It was of a...



defence.pk






https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/ukra...chinese-schoolgirl-knows.741873/post-13762672
Add bookmark
#4



DF41 said:


> The depth of analysis by a Chinese girl in English using Romance of 3 Kingdoms.
> English not her first language either.
> 
> More profound then the idiots of Murica UK NATO shit heads.
> Click to expand...


Allow me to expand on that book quoted at length by that cute little girl as to the war financed and created by USA using Ukraine and NATO as proxies against Russia .; That as a precursor to USA finding more proxies and missile fodder to fight China.

A book known and read and loved by Chinese on both sides of Taiwan Straits, including that little girl.
That book also known and read and loved by Koreans and Japanese as well as Chinese all over the world.






Romance of the Three Kingdoms - Wikipedia​








Romance of the Three Kingdoms - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org
















Nice summary of Liu Bei in 3 Kingdoms without him saying a single word.
Read the comments in Youtube

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## Clutch

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524790311687540737
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524798828360224769
> Russia's most important and modern close air support system, but the vibration problems are quite scary. As the war progresses, the image of the Russian defense industry continues to suffer from all sides.


That thing is vibrating and shaking like a 90 year old grandpa.... No way it can shoot straight....

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## Indos

Pro Russian Indonesians........

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## khansaheeb

Wergeland said:


> Lets say NATO did the right thing as you say.
> Removed a non-democratic Ghaddafi.
> In that case NATO in the aftermath, has a obligation to create a new state which atleast provide better conditions for Libyans than what Ghaddafi-government could provide, whatever it may cost. Its the only way NATO intervention can be somewhat justified. But reality shows a completely different picture.
> 
> Radical insurgent groups and warlords gained power simply because NATO removed a stable functioning government and did not even try to build a new and better government. Chaos thrives in powervacum.


NATO's goal is to create mess and instability, they are a tool to create economic advantage for the West and inequality in their favour with the rest of the world.

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## jamahir

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You mean the illegal coupmaker



Muammar Gaddafi and his comrades were revolutionaries. Would you also declare Napoleon Bonaparte as an "illegal coupmaker" ? Or Hazrat Muhammad ?

And wasn't NATO's regime change plan for Libya and Syria illegal coupmaking ?



A.P. Richelieu said:


> aka rapist



Rapist ? This Libyan girl in mid-2011 doesn't think so and she is defiant against Obomba, Sarkozy, Cameron and so on :





You must have gotten you idea from NATO false propaganda. Please read this article on Pravda for a nice analysis of a crooked NATO book about that subject :


> *Introduction*
> 
> Sex sells, it's as simple as that. Modern society has become obsessed with sex. Unfortunately not because one considers it to be a source of great joy and a way to experience love and connectedness. On the contrary, people's obsession with sex merely sprouts from all the guilt and misguided 'values' surrounding the topic. The bigger the taboo, the bigger the obsession with it. For that reason, the vast majority of mankind can't do without their daily batch of stories linked to 'forbidden' sex in personal conversations, but even more in movies, soap series, tabloid stories et cetera.
> 
> Media moguls know this. The corporate financiers behind the media know this. But by far the most dangerous, the forces behind global war and destruction are fully aware that this is THE way to bend the public opinion - the public emotion - towards their evil agenda.
> 
> After the war on Iraq, NATO's war on Libya once again made it crystal clear that the wars of the 21st century have become nothing but straightforward propaganda wars. Whoever was not convinced yet by the already much used trump card of "another evil dictator being on the brink of eradicating a large part of his people", had to be won over by the topic that clearly appeals to the emotions of the majority: sex.
> 
> Global emotions ran high when mainstream media headlines in April 2011 started to claim that, according to UN diplomats, the forces of the Libyan Jamahiriya were being issued the impotency drug Viagra in order to engage in sexual violence and rape against those who supported the NATO-led rebels. From that moment in time, so-called Gaddafi supporters were inevitably also branded supporters of sexual crimes. No legitimacy for such people in the civilized world. Ergo, another free pass for NATO to proceed with its imperialist war on the once sovereign and prosperous country.
> 
> By now the outcome of this illegal war has become obvious for everyone. NATO's 'free democratic Libya' has turned out to be a failed state, ruled by militias, mercenaries and traitors of the functioning Jamahiriya. But the remainders of Muammar Gaddafi's ideology as described in the Green Book are still there - moreover, the idea of a people's government only has been spreading ever since the outward destruction of the Libyan Jamahiriya in 2011.
> 
> The powers that create war - the desperate powers of the Western bankrupt countries - are well aware of the fact that the blood of the martyr Muammar Gaddafi has been the seed of a growing global call for a government based on the principles of the Jamahiriya. As a result of that, they saw no other choice than to disparage his legacy as much as possible, only to rid his supporters of their credibility and to portray them as being as "inhuman and monstrous" as their symbolic leader. And again, how to do that better than via a topic that most people are vulnerable to: sex.
> 
> *"Viagra totalitarianism"*
> 
> The propaganda snake that had to tarnish the reputation of Africa's hero once and for all, came in the form of a woman. A middle-aged woman named Annick Cojean, residing in one of the main orchestrators of the war against Libya, France, who works as a journalist of French mainstream media outlet _Le Monde_. Her book "Gaddafi's harem, The Story of a Young Woman and the Abuses of Power in Libya" is not only about the delicate topic of sex. The forces behind this ultimate piece of propaganda pulled out all the stops by making up a story of unbridled sexual violence and rape against underage girls by the most influential man of the entire country, who -'oh, irony'- went by the title of Guide of the Revolution. Or, quoting a mainstream review, "after reading her book, one gets the impression that Gaddafi's Libya was a grotesque and horrendous case of Viagra totalitarianism" and that Gaddafi "systematically used sex as a form of terrorism against his own people".
> 
> Cojean's book doesn't leave much to the imagination. It is built around the "confessions" of a 22-year-old woman, who at age fifteen became "one of Gaddafi's whores". The girl, Soraya (pseudonym), is said to be from Sirte, the hometown of Muammar Gaddafi. Had she been from either the city of Benghazi or the city of Misrata, which both have been cradles of terrorism and conspiracy against the Jamahiriya for decades, the effect of the description of "Gaddafi's crimes" probably would have been a little less efficient, the author must have considered.
> 
> According to the book, fifteen-year-old Soraya, in short, was "abducted from her mother's salon and driven out of the city and into the desert, to Gaddafi's tent". There she was "measured, weighed, washed and shaved", "a blood sample was taken by a Ukrainian nurse" and she was "made up and clothed in a dress with a deep décolleté over a tanga".
> 
> Soraya then was "led back to Gaddafi, who was sitting naked on his bed". When the girl "reacted with shock and refused to get into the bed", "Gaddafi, although angry, let her go". "But he shouted at Mabruka [earlier in the book described as 'the most notorious of Gaddafi's female thugs']: "This whore isn't doing what I want, make her understand and bring her back"."
> 
> Mabruka then "went to explain to Soraya that resisting was useless, and that Gaddafi would 'open' her". "The next time she was brought to Gaddafi, he raped her brutally. Over the next few days he whipped the girl, raped her again and again, even urinated on her. After a week, Soraya was taken to Tripoli to Gaddafi's headquarters at Bab al-Azizia. There she was given a dark, damp room in the cellar. Soraya was to spend seven years here as one of many of the dictator's slaves - at the whim of this mostly cocaine-fueled sex addict and his vicious band of female guards."
> 
> *"Smart" move*
> 
> In an attempt to come across reliable, the author dressed up in the finest sheep's clothing. "Soraya poured out all that happened to her, and spoke so freely to me that at one point I wondered if what she was saying was true", Cojean stated in her book. "I believed her, she seemed to be telling the truth, all she had experienced just welled out of her - but I still had to follow up and make sure." Meanwhile, no conclusive evidence whatsoever has been provided as to whether "Soraya" is telling the truth or not. Also no word about the psychopaths of this world who are able to manipulate to perfection - most likely because the author is one of them herself, or at least her clients are and she merely is their useful idiot.
> 
> The snake-gone-wolf-in-sheep's-clothing did her homework. A considerable part of the book elaborates on a topic most readers probably are not even familiar with: the fact that the empowerment of women was central to the Libyan Al-Fateh Revolution.
> 
> The author doesn't fail to mention that Muammar Gaddafi supported women and believed in their abilities. For that reason, he highlighted his female bodyguards as a symbol of his belief in women's emancipation and their role in the defence of their country. Under Jamahiriya government women also made great strides in employment, with improved access to education and acceptance of female paid employment. During the last decade of King Idris' rule, females enrolled in primary education were only between 11-19%. However, in 1969, education was made a right. And by 1990, the figure stood at 48%. And last but not least, under Jamahiriya government child marriages were banned and the minimum legal age to marry placed at 18. Since 1973, Libyan women have had equal rights in obtaining a divorce, and no person can force a Libyan woman to marry any man.
> 
> The Leader of the Al-Fateh Revolution himself explained his great efforts for women by saying: "I promised my mother to improve the situation of women in Libya". His mother, a Bedouin tribeswoman born when Libya was an Italian colony, was unable to read or write.
> 
> This and more, including quotes from Gaddafi's Green Book about the liberation of women and their equal rights, has been written down by Cojean - only for the purpose that is characteristic of evil forces: to turn good into bad, and bad into good. So the _Le Monde _journalist leaves her less-informed and less-aware readers with the poisonous question of the snakebite that this book is: "How on earth can something that looks so good on the surface have such a rotten core?"
> 
> And the devil of globalism and imperialism laughs...
> 
> *Distraction*
> 
> The real tragedy of this propaganda book that aims to turn Africa's hero into Africa's brutal sex-addicted mass rapist, is not only the fact that it broadly disparages Muammar Gaddafi's great achievements and ideology, as well as his humbleness as a Muslim and his simple personal life. It also - and be sure this is not a coincidence - massively draws away the attention from the extensive paedophile and sex abuse cases in Western governments, royal houses and churches, which currently nonetheless more and more come to light. So far no mainstream media outlet has been the voice of the numerous victims of those crimes, let alone allowing a book to be published on the sexual misconduct towards them by British Jimmy Savile, Dutch Joris Demmink and many many other high-ranking figures. Instead the proofless story of an anonymous, faceless "Libyan girl" gets the limelight - because this story exactly serves the imperialist agenda
> 
> In the end, Cojean's book only exposes and emphasizes the purpose of the evil forces. Because in the end it always is the good fruit that the mainstream media snakes are attracted to, while the rotten ones are left alone.
> 
> And Muammar Gaddafi has been such a good fruit.
> 
> *Linda Housman*





A.P. Richelieu said:


> that was killed by his own people.



How can you consider NATO-supported Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood "his own people" ? Was it that girl in that vid who murdered him ?



A.P. Richelieu said:


> He, as well as a thief



Thief ? OTOH King Idris, the man he replaced as the main leader, that one was a thief. Gaddafi used the oil sales to bring comfort, welfare and prosperity to Libyans ( and helped revolutionaries elsewhere like Nelson Mandela ). In 2011 there was no homelessness in Libya because decades ago he had vowed that his own parents would live in a tent until all Libyans had a fixed house. This was unlike Western government leaders whose own countries had homelessness but still they attacked Libya where there was none.  You call him a thief but he used the oil sales again to build the biggest water delivery project in the world called Great Man-Made River project :


> The *Great Man-Made River* (*GMMR*, النهر الصناعي العظيم) is a network of pipes that supplies fresh water obtained from the Nubian Sandstone Aquifer System fossil aquifer across Libya. It is the world's largest irrigation project.[1] The project utilizes a pipeline system that pumps water from the Nubian Sandstone Aquifer System from down south in Libya to cities in the populous Libyan northern Mediterranean coast including Tripoli and Benghazi. The water covers a distance of up to 1,600 kilometers and provides 70% of all freshwater used in Libya.
> 
> According to its website, it is the largest underground network of pipes (2,820 kilometres (1,750 mi))[3] and aqueducts in the world. It consists of more than 1,300 wells, most more than 500 m deep, and supplies 6,500,000 m3 of fresh water per day to the cities of Tripoli, Benghazi, Sirte and elsewhere. The late Libyan Leader Muammar Gaddafi described it as the "Eighth Wonder of the World".


In doing the above the Libyan system did not have a water tax. You in the West do and I in India do. Water in the Libyan Jamahiriya was considered a human right that should be exchanged in lieu of money.

There are other examples but Libya was a true democracy unlike countries in the West and those who follow their model. Please read that post I linked you day before yesterday on the topic of democracy. Thiefs are Western governments, stealing people's monies and spending those on building and buying weapons and spending on transnational criminals and propping up criminal governments.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> There is no requirement for a country to be a member of the United Nations and Gaddafi agreed to the rules by remaining a member.



So if there is no compulsory requirement should it mean that those countries that are members should become subordinate to the whims and fancies of NATO governments ?



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Any resolution taken is unopposed by Russia and China, which means that the Libyan government under Gaddafi was branded as criminals that the world should stop from their atrocities.
> 
> You logically claim that Russia and China are vassals of NATO.



1. Russia opposed the NATO resolutions on Libya and Syria. China did not because China is a selfish society, not Communist. China is not helping Russia in Syria and Ukraine.

2. NATO killed one million North Koreans in the three year Korea War and you call the Libyan forces and Gaddafi as criminals ? We need not remind you of Iraq.

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## LeGenD

Some members continue to derail this thread with half-baked ramblings. Please stay on topic.

Sources that provide professional coverage of the war are identified and documented in the repository thread. Use them to provide relevant updates.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Ten More European Gas Buyers Open Ruble Accounts for Payments​
Person close to Gazprom says 20 clients have accounts in total
Companies can use rubles and not break sanctions, Draghi says

Bloomberg May 12, 2022

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...n-gas-buyers-open-ruble-accounts-for-payments


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## jhungary

WotTen said:


> The Western media and governments are absolute masters of propaganda and mind control. They have to be. In any democracy, job number one is to fool the people well enough to get elected while you implement the agenda of those who funded your campaign.
> 
> Noam Chomsky's famous book _Manufacturing Consent_ explains it all.


I love how you comment on western propaganda when you are replying to an obvious Chinese Propaganda. 

LOL


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## CAPRICORN-88

Russia condemns attack on its envoys in Poland, says 'Neo-Nazis showing their face'​The spokeswoman of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Maria Zakharova condemned the attack of Russian Ambassador to Poland with red paint.


Written by:Rohit Ranjan

Updated May 10 , 2022 5:45 PM








Image: AP
After the Russian Ambassador to Poland, Sergei Andreyev was splashed with red paint on the occasion of Victory Day on Monday, the spokeswoman of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Maria Zakharova condemned the incident, stating that Russian Ambassador, Sergei Andreyev and Russian diplomats accompanying him were attacked in Warsaw while laying a wreath at a Soviet soldier's cemetery. *She further stated that neo-Nazi supporters have shown their faces once more, and it is bloody.*

Zakharova went on to say that the disrespect of graves, the destruction of monuments to World War II heroes and now the interruption of a flower-laying ceremony on a day that is sacrosanct to every decent human being reveals the obvious once more, that is the West has prepared the stage for the resurrection of Nazism. She reaffirmed her previous statement by saying that they cannot scare Russia. Foreign Ministry spokeswoman also said that Europeans should be terrified when they see themselves in the mirror.
The incident was also criticised by Poland’s Foreign Minister​*The incident was also criticised by Poland’s Foreign Minister Zbigniew Rau, who stated that the incident was very disgusting and that diplomats should be afforded particular security, regardless of the policies adopted by the nations they represent, according to media reports. *The Polish government was chastised for not providing stronger security for the ambassador, allowing an event to occur that could be used by Russia to portray Poland as hostile to Moscow, which Kremlin has already said. Last week, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov stated that Poland’s action towards Russia is "openly hostile." As a result of the conflict, which began on February 24, more than 3.2 million Ukrainian refugees have fled to Poland.

While attacking the Ambassador with red paint, the demonstrations prevented the ambassador and others from laying flowers at the cemetery and chanted "Nazi" and "murderer" at him and waved Ukrainian flags. As police arrived on the scene, the ambassador and others in his group were able to depart. When asked by TVN24 about the ambassador being attacked, one demonstrator said it was good that he was attacked by red paint. The envoy had planned to lead a Victory Day march in Warsaw, but national and local authorities objected, and his appearance at the cemetery was seen as provocative by some.
https://m.republicworld.com/anchor/arnab-goswami


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## Viet

The sea blockage imposed by Russian army hinders Ukraine to export 25 million ton grains. Which causes high food prices and potentially can inflict huge famine in developing countries.
G7 trying to find a way to break Russia blockade.






__





ZEIT ONLINE | Lesen Sie zeit.de mit Werbung oder im PUR-Abo. Sie haben die Wahl.







www.zeit.de









Annalena Baerbock beim G7-Außenministertreffen© Janine Schmitz/imago images

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## Viet

Zelenskki says yesterday in his daily video broadcast, Russia lost the war.
Just because Russians are cowards they don’t admit the defeat.
The military defeat is obvious. Russia hides the defeat behind terror bombing of schools, hospitals and other civil infrastructures.









Ukraine-Krieg: Selenskyj: „Strategische Niederlage Russlands ist offensichtlich“


Wladimir Putin hat laut dem ukrainischen Präsidenten seine Kriegsziele verfehlt. Ein Berater der Kiewer Regierung spricht von einer „schrecklichen Idiotie“ der politischen und militärischen Führung Russlands. Die Nacht im Überblick




m.faz.net



















Ukraine-Krieg: Stahlwerk in Mariupol erneut unter Beschuss


Die Lage im Ukraine-Krieg spitzt sich weiter zu: militärisch, diplomatisch und humanitär – der News-Ticker zum Krieg am Samstag, 14. Mai.




www.fr.de

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## CAPRICORN-88

​
Russia demands formal Polish apology for Warsaw anti-war protest​



FILE PHOTO: Poland's Foreign Minister Zbigniew Rau attends a news conference in Riga, Latvia April 29, 2022. REUTERS/Ints Kalnins



An employee cleans the entrance of the Polish embassy after the building was splattered with red paint by an unidentified assailant in Moscow, Russia May 11, 2022. REUTERS/Lev SergeevNext
Published May 11, 2022
Updated May 12, 2022
WARSAW :Russia on Wednesday demanded a formal apology from Poland and threatened possible future reprisals for a protest in which Moscow's ambassador to Warsaw was doused with red paint.
The ambassador, Sergey Andreev, was accosted by people protesting against Russia's intervention in Ukraine as he went to lay flowers at the Soviet Military Cemetery in Warsaw on Monday, drawing a furious reaction from Moscow.

The Russian foreign ministry summoned Polish Ambassador Krzysztof Krajewski to receive its protest.
"Russia expects an official apology from the Polish leadership in connection with the incident and demands the safety of the Russian ambassador and all employees of Russian foreign institutions in Poland are ensured," it said in a statement.
"A decision on further steps will be taken depending on Warsaw's reaction to our demands."
On Wednesday afternoon, red paint was splattered over the entrance to the Polish Embassy in Moscow, a spokesman for the Polish foreign ministry said. Polish Foreign Minister Zbigniew Rau said authorities had warned Andreev that attending the cemetery on Monday, when Russia was commemorating the Soviet Union's victory over Nazi Germany in World War Two, risked provoking an incident, according to the state-run PAP news agency.
"However, what happened does not in any way change our position that diplomatic representatives of foreign countries are entitled to protection ... no matter how much we feel the need to disagree with the policy of the government that the diplomat represents," Rau was quoted as saying.

Relations between Russia and the West have become fraught since Moscow sent tens of thousands of troops into Ukraine on Feb. 24 in what it calls a "special military operation" to disarm the country and protect it from "fascists".
More than 3 million Ukrainians have fled to Poland, which has consistently argued for the Western sanctions imposed on Moscow to be tough, and has expelled 45 Russian diplomats, prompting a tit-for-tat response from Moscow.
Ukraine and the West say the fascist allegation is baseless and that Moscow launched an unprovoked act of aggression against its neighbour.
(Reporting by Alan Charlish, Marek Strzelecki; Editing by Kevin Liffey, Nick Macfie and Mark Heinrich)

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## CAPRICORN-88

Putin says large Russian grain harvest to support higher exports​




FILE PHOTO:Russian President Vladimir Putin chairs a meeting on economic issues via a video link, with Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin and other officials seen on a screen, at the Kremlin in Moscow, Russia May 12, 2022.

Sputnik/Mikhail Metzel/Kremlin via REUTERS
Published May 12, 2022
Updated May 12, 2022

*Russia, one of the world's largest wheat exporters, will increase wheat exports this year due to a potentially record harvest, President Vladimir Putin said on Thursday.*

Russia competes with the European Union and Ukraine for supplies of wheat to the Middle East and Africa. It continues to export despite difficulties with logistics and payments caused by Western sanctions on Moscow over what Russia terms its "special military operation" in Ukraine.

Russia currently expects to harvest 130 million tonnes of grain in 2022, including 87 million tonnes of wheat, Putin told a meeting of top economic officials in Moscow.

Russia produced a record grain crop 133.5 million tonnes in 2020, including 85.9 million tonnes of wheat. The crop was smaller in 2021.

"If this happens, which we are counting on, it could be an all-time record [for the wheat crop] in Russian history," Putin said. He did not provide an export estimate.

*Higher exports from Russia in the new July-June marketing season could help to partly meet rising global demand in the event that Ukraine's exports remain low and Kyiv does not regain access to its Black Sea ports, Sovecon consultancy said in April.*

Ukraine's ports have been blockaded since Moscow began what it calls a "special military operation" in Ukraine on Feb. 24.

Russian exporters have largely managed to resolve problems with logistics and the transfer of payments caused by Western sanctions imposed on Moscow since late February and are exporting wheat from the Russian side of the Black Sea and sporadically from the Azov Sea.


(Reporting by Reuters; Editing by Kevin Liffey/Guy Faulconbridge)


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## CAPRICORN-88

BERLIN, May 11 (Xinhua) -- *Germany's inflation rate in April rose to 7.4 percent amid soaring energy prices, according to confirmed figures published by the Federal Statistical Office (Destatis) on Wednesday.*

"The inflation rate reached an all-time high for the second month in a row since German reunification," said Georg Thiel, president of Destatis.

A similarly high inflation rate was last recorded in Germany in autumn 1981 when mineral oil prices had sharply increased as a consequence of the war between Iraq and Iran.

*Prices of heating oil in April nearly doubled year-on-year, according to Destatis. Marked price increases were also recorded for motor fuels and natural gas, up 38.5 and 47.5 percent respectively.*

The development of energy prices since the start of the *Russia-Ukraine* conflict had a "substantial impact on the inflation rate," Destatis noted.

Food prices also picked up and rose by 8.6 percent year-on-year, accelerating significantly from an increase of 6.2 percent in the previous month, according to Destatis. Prices for edible fats and oils rose particularly sharply at 27.3 percent.

For 2022, the German government expects an inflation rate of 6.1 percent as the sharp rise in oil, coal and gas prices was consequently driving up consumer prices. Inflation is expected to return to near-normal levels next year.

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## CAPRICORN-88

US baby formula shortage marks another crisis for Biden​Republicans are arguing that low supplies, caused in part by a factory shutdown, are evidence the Biden administration is inept​






The National
May 13 2022

The White House on Thursday vowed to take action to boost *supplies of baby formula *as US President Joe Biden was slammed by Republicans for *nationwide shortages.*

Last week, the average out-of-stock rate for baby formula was 43 per cent, according to _Datasembly_, which collected information from more than 11,000 retailers.

The administration, already *under fire over the **highest inflation rate in decades*, did not specify what action it might take but said Mr Biden would speak to manufacturers and retailers later on Thursday.

The shortages have been *worsening since February 17* when, after the death of two infants, manufacturer Abbott announced a “voluntary recall” for formula made at its factory in Michigan — including Similac, a brand used by millions of American families.

A subsequent investigation cleared the formula, but production has yet to resume, exacerbating already ongoing scarcity caused by supply chain problems and labour shortages.

Republicans, who have set their sights on wresting back control of Congress in November's midterm elections, have seized on the issue to berate Mr Biden and the Democrats.

Elise Stefanik, part of the House Republican leadership and a new mother herself, told a news conference she had contacted the US Food and Drug Administration in February but received “no substantive response”.

“Joe Biden simply has no plan. In fact, when Joe Biden's White House was asked about the shortage, they laughed. Shameful,” she told reporters.

Her Republican House of Representatives colleague Anne Wagner of Missouri said her state was one of six in which more than half of the normal supply of baby milk was out of stock.

“I've heard stories of mums first-hand — my own daughter-in-law — bartering for baby formula on Facebook,” she said.

“Pregnant women are asking if they should start stockpiling. They're anxious during a time of high stress and anxiety.”

Randy Feenstra, a US representative from Iowa, said families in his state were travelling up to 160 kilometres to source formula.

_-AFP contributed to this report

*While Biden is busily planning, how many more USD billions he is going to send to Ukraine to save the Zalensky neo-NAZI regime, the real war, a war of attrition is beginning to affect and hurt the average Americans. *_


----------



## LeGenD

Repository thread is updated and expanded with new sections.






Repository of journalistic sources and how to use them with Russia - Ukraine War in focus and Fact-checking considerations


Dear members, Some members complain about the issue of reporting bias (and propaganda) in journalistic contents. These complaints were noticed in the following thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/ This thread is created to address the...



defence.pk





1. Causes of Russia - Ukraine War are identified and documented - separate section.
2. Wider effects of Russia - Ukraine War are documented - separate section. This section will be expanded in time.
3. Some of the contents are re-adjusted.


----------



## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524814798214647812
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524841764170911757
> Where are the NATO's proxy forces who were carrying those weapons? I already got the answer: They've been eliminated.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524807277001293824



Russia's losing entire BTGs but the only thing they can show is some rocket launchers.

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## Viet

EU gives another 500 million euros to Ukraine to buy weapons. Increasing the weapons assistance to 2 billion euros. The initial total package is 5 billion euros in total. That figure will probably dramatically increase.






__





ZEIT ONLINE | Lesen Sie zeit.de mit Werbung oder im PUR-Abo. Sie haben die Wahl.







www.zeit.de

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## Wergeland

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The responsibility for the situation is squarely at the Islamist and War Lords together with their supporters.
> It is also a failure of Libyan leadership.
> If Gaddafi had been a good leader, he would have prepared the society for self rule, but since he was an awful leader who struck rich through oil, he did not.



The responsibility lies soley at the agressor not the victim. Agressor here being NATO.

You know that very well so stop trying to come up with childish excuses. One can use the argument that might is right and to me your reasoning sounds just like that. But then why use so many non-coherent arguments? why not be straightforward and just say it.





A.P. Richelieu said:


> That does not show the economics of war.


The video proves that most of the German manpower were in Soviet territory and the war was longest and most fierce on the eastern front.

Case closed.

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## jamal18

🇷🇺🇺🇦
According to reports, Kiev is actively pressuring the US to send part of the financial assistance to buy at least part of the 320 x T-80UD tanks from Pakistan....originally sold by Ukr

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## Wergeland

khansaheeb said:


> NATO's goal is to create mess and instability, they are a tool to create economic advantage for the West and inequality in their favour with the rest of the world.



It wasnt always like this. 
The US got a free reign after Soviet collapse. Balance of power was broken and politicians went to town with their newfound absolute power.

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## WotTen

jhungary said:


> I love how you comment on western propaganda when you are replying to an obvious Chinese Propaganda.
> 
> LOL



Chinese, Russian, Soviet, North Korean propaganda is lame compared to Western propaganda. Democracies have to be master of propaganda. Authoritarian governments have much less experience and are amateurs.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525025508064370689

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525025792324952064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525026301626793985

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525026397948878848

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525026747703508993

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## BHAN85

Sineva said:


> Freedom of speech?,only if you tow the approved western/nato line on the war it seems.
> You could imagine the outrage in the nato nations if the headline was: Country XYZ arrests "pro ukrainian" blogger on behalf of russian government.
> Still,we really shouldnt forget that spain has a bit of a prior history with fascism.....
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1522156075029393408



There's no fascism in Spain.

I wish Franco ressucitate, but there is nothing left about him here.

This is far left EU progressist extremism. The same extremism that forbid access to RT websites from Spain/EU. The new kind of lefists extremist useful idiots, a social engineered cancer.

But in the end they only move to protect American interests against European people interests. Pure corruption and stupidity.

Massmedia are brainwashing 24/7 about Ukraine war here, be against Zelensky is like be in the side of Bin Laden after 911 attacks. Just you can't say that.

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## Paul2

Wergeland said:


> The US got a free reign after Soviet collapse. Balance of power was broken and politicians went to town with their newfound absolute power.



And it did a lot of stupid things, namely, loosing allies for nothing left, right, and centre

Even poodles like Germany, and Japan were minutes away from turning their back on US

Russia had to wait just 5-7 more years... and they could've got 2 G7 nations bailing out, and if Trump has happened, then 3, and if Borisgate took down Tories, then 4, and we don't count French, because they always bail out anyways, thus it could've been 5...

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## RoadAmerica

Wergeland said:


> Leader of Finland may have her own assumtions after being briefed by people around her. Just never underestimate stupidity of people. Leaders are not magicians, they are fallible. People, even those who are apperantly informed one, has a tendency to be incredibly shortsighted and never learn from history. Finnish estalibshment obviously is riding the present media-wave. I am afraid they are gross miscalculting the whole situation. Its a classic example of self-deception, right now assisted by american influence of course.
> 
> Of course i worry about the Finns, they are our closest neighbor as we share border with them. We also share border with Russia in the same north. Easy for you to sit on your high horse when Finlands problems wont affect you in any meaningful way. Have you joined the Ukrainian Army in Donbass yet!? I guess the answer is a big no!
> 
> May i add that cut of gas supply will be only a small problem compared to what could happen in future.


Sounds like someone is unhappy more countries are deciding their future independent of Russian threats


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525065285300015105

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525025508064370689
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525025792324952064
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525026301626793985
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525026397948878848
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525026747703508993


Russia has lost its status in the world stage because of this war. It is now nothing more than a vassal state for China.

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## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> Russia's losing entire BTGs but the only thing they can show is some rocket launchers.


If you look at the amount of launcher and the amount of missile pack that was captured. Assuming if the pack was not empty (Which is strange as they don't show the side that you can see the missile) there were 2 NLAW missile and 5 or 6 Javelin launcher, denoting the missile had run out before it was captured. So most likely they were discarded



jamal18 said:


> 🇷🇺🇺🇦
> According to reports, Kiev is actively pressuring the US to send part of the financial assistance to buy at least part of the 320 x T-80UD tanks from Pakistan....originally sold by Ukr


Don't know why this is funny or even worth mentioning, it's not even an open secret that they needed tank.

Ukraine start the war with less than 1600 tanks, Russia start this war with over 10,000, sure a lot of them (Conservative OSINT figure putting at 1300-1600) are destroyed, they are always going to be out number by Russian regardless of Ukrainian loses.......

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## dbc

jhungary said:


> If you look at the amount of launcher and the amount of missile pack that was captured. Assuming if the pack was not empty (Which is strange as they don't show the side that you can see the missile) there were 2 NLAW missile and 5 or 6 Javelin launcher, denoting the missile had run out before it was captured. So most likely they were discarded



yeah! I guess Putinistas will tweet images of spent casing next.

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## jhungary

dbc said:


> yeah! I guess Putinistas will tweet images of spent casing next.


Well, if I have to guess, that is most likely discarded in Mariupol judging from the condition of those tube. 

There aren't much to be captured by the Russian if this is what they can showcase.


----------



## PakFactor

Wood said:


> Russia has lost its status in the world stage because of this war. It is now nothing more than a vassal state for China.



Exactly! That is why things will get interesting, I have my own analysis of it but let’s see over time how it plays out.

One can almost say the Chinese wanted to subvert Russia —

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## Wood

This is so cool. Video gamers were just geeks who cannot get a girl before. But I think they will become warriors in the coming decades. 

Also interesting but from the video is that Chinese commercial drones are used by Ukranian side. But Chinese have given software to Russians that can track the drones. In future, I think commercial tech will drive innovation. This is opposite of what we've seen in the past where military innovation led to progress. Good for humanity as progress will accelerate


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

jamahir said:


> Muammar Gaddafi and his comrades were revolutionaries. Would you also declare Napoleon Bonaparte as an "illegal coupmaker" ? Or Hazrat Muhammad ?


Napoleon certainly grabbed power in a military coup.
So did Gaddafi, and that does not make him snything but a dictator.



jamahir said:


> And wasn't NATO's regime change plan for Libya and Syria illegal coupmaking ?



NATOs actions in Libya and Syria are legal, since they rely on UNSC resolutions.



jamahir said:


> Rapist ? This Libyan girl in mid-2011 doesn't think so and she is defiant against Obomba, Sarkozy, Cameron and so on :



One girl can only tell of her own experience.
It does not invalidate witnesses.








The terrible truth about Gaddafi’s harem


A young woman has revealed how she was raped, beaten, abused and even urinated on by Muammar Gaddafi.




www.iol.co.za







jamahir said:


> You must have gotten you idea from NATO false propaganda. Please read this article on Pravda for a nice analysis of a crooked NATO book about that subject :


Pravda is not known for ”truth”.


jamahir said:


> How can you consider NATO-supported Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood "his own people" ? Was it that girl in that vid who murdered him ?



NATO does not support Al-Qaeda nor the ”Muslim Brotherhood”. Turkey is a known Muslim Brotherhood supporter, but acts on their own, outside NATO.


jamahir said:


> Thief ? OTOH King Idris, the man he replaced as the main leader, that one was a thief. Gaddafi used the oil sales to bring comfort, welfare and prosperity to Libyans ( and helped revolutionaries elsewhere like Nelson Mandela ).



He also was the spider in the web for terrorist and ordered several terrorist attacks.



jamahir said:


> In 2011 there was no homelessness in Libya because decades ago he had vowed that his own parents would live in a tent until all Libyans had a fixed house. This was unlike Western government leaders whose own countries had homelessness but still they attacked Libya where there was none.  You call him a thief but he used the oil sales again to build the biggest water delivery project in the world called Great Man-Made River project :


That did not stop him from killing anyone opposing his dictatorship, which is the issue.



jamahir said:


> In doing the above the Libyan system did not have a water tax. You in the West do and I in India do. Water in the Libyan Jamahiriya was considered a human right that should be exchanged in lieu of money.


I am not aware of any water tax, unless you think of VAT which is applied on most merchandise.


jamahir said:


> There are other examples but Libya was a true democracy unlike countries in the West and those who follow their model. Please read that post I linked you day before yesterday on the topic of democracy. Thiefs are Western governments, stealing people's monies and spending those on building and buying weapons and spending on transnational criminals and propping up criminal governments.
> 
> 
> So if there is no compulsory requirement should it mean that those countries that are members should become subordinate to the whims and fancies of NATO governments ?


In Sweden people vote for the parliament, and parliament approves tax levels and budgets. That is how it is supposed to be done, so no stealing going on.




jamahir said:


> 1. Russia opposed the NATO resolutions on Libya and Syria. China did not because China is a selfish society, not Communist. China is not helping Russia in Syria and Ukraine.


If Russia had opposed the resolutions, they would have vetoed them and there would not have been any resolution.
There are no ”NATO” resolutions in the UNSC. Any resolution needs a majority of votes and no veto.
Any of the three permanent members which are also NATO members can stop a resolution. None of them can force the UNSC to adopt a resolution.



jamahir said:


> 2. NATO killed one million North Koreans in the three year Korea War and you call the Libyan forces and Gaddafi as criminals ? We need not remind you of Iraq.


NATO was not participating in the Korean War. 
The Korean War was the United Nations fighting the North Koreans and China with support by the Soviet Union.
This was a war started by North Korea.

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## BHAN85

Wood said:


> This is so cool. Video gamers were just geeks who cannot get a girl before. But I think they will become warriors in the coming decades.
> 
> Also interesting but from the video is that Chinese commercial drones are used by Ukranian side. But Chinese have given software to Russians that can track the drones. In future, I think commercial tech will drive innovation. This is opposite of what we've seen in the past where military innovation led to progress. Good for humanity as progress will accelerate



What a beautiful mankind future, people killing other people remotely with drones .

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## A.P. Richelieu

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Putin says large Russian grain harvest to support higher exports​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FILE PHOTO:Russian President Vladimir Putin chairs a meeting on economic issues via a video link, with Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin and other officials seen on a screen, at the Kremlin in Moscow, Russia May 12, 2022.
> 
> Sputnik/Mikhail Metzel/Kremlin via REUTERS
> Published May 12, 2022
> Updated May 12, 2022
> 
> *Russia, one of the world's largest wheat exporters, will increase wheat exports this year due to a potentially record harvest, President Vladimir Putin said on Thursday.*
> 
> Russia competes with the European Union and Ukraine for supplies of wheat to the Middle East and Africa. It continues to export despite difficulties with logistics and payments caused by Western sanctions on Moscow over what Russia terms its "special military operation" in Ukraine.
> 
> Russia currently expects to harvest 130 million tonnes of grain in 2022, including 87 million tonnes of wheat, Putin told a meeting of top economic officials in Moscow.
> 
> Russia produced a record grain crop 133.5 million tonnes in 2020, including 85.9 million tonnes of wheat. The crop was smaller in 2021.
> 
> "If this happens, which we are counting on, it could be an all-time record [for the wheat crop] in Russian history," Putin said. He did not provide an export estimate.
> 
> *Higher exports from Russia in the new July-June marketing season could help to partly meet rising global demand in the event that Ukraine's exports remain low and Kyiv does not regain access to its Black Sea ports, Sovecon consultancy said in April.*
> 
> Ukraine's ports have been blockaded since Moscow began what it calls a "special military operation" in Ukraine on Feb. 24.
> 
> Russian exporters have largely managed to resolve problems with logistics and the transfer of payments caused by Western sanctions imposed on Moscow since late February and are exporting wheat from the Russian side of the Black Sea and sporadically from the Azov Sea.
> 
> 
> (Reporting by Reuters; Editing by Kevin Liffey/Guy Faulconbridge)


They have also stolen half a million tons of grain from Ukraine…


----------



## Primus

Wood said:


> This is so cool. Video gamers were just geeks who cannot get a girl before. But I think they will become warriors in the coming decades.
> 
> Also interesting but from the video is that Chinese commercial drones are used by Ukranian side. But Chinese have given software to Russians that can track the drones. In future, I think commercial tech will drive innovation. This is opposite of what we've seen in the past where military innovation led to progress. Good for humanity as progress will accelerate


GAMERS! RISE UP!

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## A.P. Richelieu

Wergeland said:


> The responsibility lies soley at the agressor not the victim. Agressor here being NATO.


It is not up to NATO to make decisions on how Libya should be governed. It is also not up to Islamists to make such decisions, but they tried to enforce their agenda.


Wergeland said:


> You know that very well so stop trying to come up with childish excuses. One can use the argument that might is right and to me your reasoning sounds just like that. But then why use so many non-coherent arguments? why not be straightforward and just say it.
> 
> 
> The video proves that most of the German manpower were in Soviet territory and the war was longest and most fierce on the eastern front.
> 
> Case closed.


The video does not show that Germany spent tons of money and manpower to build u-boots, surface ships and aircrafts that primarily was used against the West.
It also ignored that the fight was against the Axis, and not solely Germany. The West forced the 3,5 million Italian Army to surrender.
Germany had more troops defending the Reich against the Allied bombing campaign mid 1943 than was employed in the Zitadelle.
Hitler aborted Zitadelle, right after the victory at Prochorowka when he found out about the invasion of Sicily, and immediately send his strongest units to Italy.
That shows his priorities.
Targetting the oil production affected the Eastern Front. The West has a significant part in the victories also on the Eastern Front, as any vehicle blown up due to lack of fuel should be counted as a Western kill.


----------



## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Russia start this war with over 10,000, sure a lot of them (Conservative OSINT figure putting at 1300-1600) are destroyed, they are always going to be out number by



Russia started with considerable less tanks. IISS counted 2820.

My count is 2500 with recent reinforcements, and I believe the counted loss figure.

Remember, we can't count _deliberately withdrawn_ tanks, and other vehicles.

Ukrainian telegrams tell that Russian telegrams tell that there are 200+ tanks sitting in Belgorod which got very small damage, mechanical malfunctions, and were sent back because front-line repair is impossible for things like optics, suspension failures, internal electronics, fluid systems etc. Most of these failed without firing a shot, and it seem they were withdrawn very early.


----------



## Novus ordu seclorum

Elvin said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524647935203590144


Putin's master strategy.


----------



## Broccoli

Russia has lost at least 100 out of it's 570 or so T-72B3 Obr 2016 tanks. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525051081398571011


----------



## Viet

Vergennes said:


> Russia's losing entire BTGs but the only thing they can show is some rocket launchers.


I saw the images that is a massacre. The entire battalion is wiped out. What would Putin say to the Moms of the fallen soldiers?


----------



## Paul2

Broccoli said:


> Russia has lost at least 100 out of it's 570 or so T-72B3 Obr 2016 tanks.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525051081398571011



This confirms my initial calculation. Initial attack had 1500 T72 type tanks. ~450 T80+T90 reserves in elite tank army, and divisions, and the rest are the oldest T72s, and other junk like PT76 in the rear guard with arty, and auxiliaries.

Now, they are pushing T55s, T62s, according to Ukrainians, but they are soooo old. I doubt there are still trained crews alive for them.


----------



## Broccoli

Paul2 said:


> This confirms my initial calculation. Initial attack had 1500 t72 type tanks. ~450 T80+T90 reserves in elite tank army, and divisions, and the rest are the oldest t72s in the rear guard with arty, and auxiliaries.
> 
> Now, they are pushing T55s, T62s, according to Ukrainians, but they are soooo old. I doubt there are still trained crews alive for them.



If you look what kinda optics T-72B3 Obr 2016 has it's many ways better than standart T-90A.

Russia has around 350 T-90A's in service and have lost at least 20 in Ukraine.


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Russia started with considerable less tanks. IISS counted 2820.
> 
> My count is 2500 with recent reinforcements, and I believe the counted loss figure.
> 
> Remember, we can't count _deliberately withdrawn_ tanks, and other vehicles.
> 
> Ukrainian telegrams tell that Russian telegrams tell that there are 200+ tanks sitting in Belgorod which got very small damage, mechanical malfunctions, and were sent back because front-line repair is impossible for things like optics, suspension failures, internal electronics, fluid systems etc. Most of these failed without firing a shot, and it seem they were withdrawn very early.



well, my point is Ukrainian tank reserve are always going to be outnumber by Russian tank reserve, which mean Ukraine begging for Armored vehicle is not something new and it's rather quite expected.


----------



## kingQamaR

The T90 itself isn't much, it's really just an upgraded T72 with a fancy new name (it's more accurate to call it the T-72BU, not the "T-90", which is a marketing stunt). As for people with Russian equipment...that's about 95% of the Ukrainian Army, since Ukraine was where quite a lot of Soviet stuff was built


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525149843265658881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525152703877369857

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525174150490476546


----------



## Oublious

Russians and washing machine...  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525024848698916865

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## SQ8

Oublious said:


> Russians and washing machine...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525024848698916865


That is likely the engine intake filter to keep dust and sand particles out

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## Oublious

SQ8 said:


> That is likely the engine intake filter to keep dust and sand particles out




No, it is to small for a air intake.


----------



## SQ8

Oublious said:


> No, it is to small for a air intake.


I wrote "engine intake *filter"*

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## Oublious

SQ8 said:


> I wrote "engine intake *filter"*




does a fighter chopper or civil chopper have a air filter?


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## RescueRanger

So is the 3 day special operation a success? 









Oublious said:


> does a fighter chopper or civil chopper have a air filter?


Every helicopter has an air inlet filter.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> 1.) Not much, if you compare infantry to infantry, equipment wise and training wise, in fact Ukrainian would have home ground advantage, because they know where they can set up ambush, they know the location and they know the people. Russia, as an attacker is inherently in a disadvantage because they are fighting an away war, on a normal Sunday, you will use your intel to make up the different, but as far as OSINT concern, Russia is not doing as good as a job than Ukraine.
> 
> 2.) There are virtually *NO WAY* they can do that. There are a small contingent in Transnistria, (1000 or so troop) that cannot be used to flank Odessa on the side, and if they do, it open a way for Moldova to recapture Transnistria, not saying that they will, I am saying they can't move those troop or that *MAY* happened.
> 
> Without that, you need a land bridge to support a beachhead for a amphibious assault, which mean the Russian would need to go across Kherson to Mykolaiv and all the way to Odessa in order to relief the Beachhead. Easy to say, Hard to do, especially bulk of the troop in Kherson are actually trying to fight off Ukrainian counter offensive there.
> 
> Even if that is doable, you are looking at a city of 1 million people, with sizable defence garrison, and Russia would have been at their end of the line of communication, even if Russia manage to push thru Mykolaiv, this will most likely end up the same result as Kyiv.
> 
> 3.) Depends on how much ground they captured. There are roughly 96 BTG (Roughly 80,000 -100000 men) in the area fighting 6 to 10 Ukrainian Brigade (roughly 40,000 men), number is quite equal (Bear in mind you need 3 to 1 advantage on the attacker side), as I said the first post I came back, I don't see the frontline is going to move a great deal maybe 5 to 10 km either way. So yes, if the frontline stay it was, Russian can maintain that line. Given the Ukrainian did not up tempo their attack.
> 
> On there hand, if Russia are going all the way, and they can go all the way and took the entire Donbas, then the troop Russia have in place will NOT be enough, you would probably need to double to have 2/3 more (so 150 to 200 BTG) because you are talking about another 150km front line and every piece of land within it. There are going to Spreading too thin to cover the entire area.
> 
> I wouldn't know if Russia can take that, Russia is making slow progress but Ukraine is obviously working toward Kupiansk. If Ukraine took Kupiansk before Russia break out from Izyum, the entire Russian offensive in Izyum would fold, because that is the major rail hub between Belgorod into Eastern Ukraine, that's where all the store come from. And without Irpin, there are no way Russia can make progress in Eastern Ukraine.


Should provide MLRS type like HIMARS or M270s to hit Kupiansk. Ukrainians wouldn't have to try to fight too hard to hit that supply point.



jhungary said:


> Another thing is, M777 and M270 MLRS is starting to show up on Frontline, which mean Russian artillery are going to be outrange by Ukrainian one, and in the Eastern Ukraine, the flat terrain favor the attacker, which mean you can just sit and bomb those village and then move in when you deal enough damage, but that cut both way, now that Russian are occupying those village, they would have been subject to the same condition, and once enough M777 (US is giving them 90 of those) are in position, they can used to either provide combat support or COUNTBAT. This is going to turn the tide a bit, until eventually Russia have to brought in their Close Air Support.


The U.S. and other countries should give them M109s. About 200 from U.S. alone should do it along with other M109s from other countries.


----------



## BHAN85

The Drums of War Beat Louder - PaulCraigRoberts.org


The Drums of War Beat Louder Paul Craig Roberts My forebodings/predictions about the Kremlin’s limited go-slow war in Ukraine are proving correct. Putin




www.paulcraigroberts.org

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## RescueRanger

BHAN85 said:


> The Drums of War Beat Louder - PaulCraigRoberts.org
> 
> 
> The Drums of War Beat Louder Paul Craig Roberts My forebodings/predictions about the Kremlin’s limited go-slow war in Ukraine are proving correct. Putin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.paulcraigroberts.org


Good article - thank you for sharing. always good to look at different perspectives.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Oublious said:


> Russians and washing machine...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525024848698916865


A well aimed washing machine will take out a helicopter.

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## Oldman1



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## Wergeland

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The video does not show that Germany spent tons of money and manpower to build u-boots, surface ships and aircrafts that primarily was used against the West.
> It also ignored that the fight was against the Axis, and not solely Germany. The West forced the 3,5 million Italian Army to surrender.
> Germany had more troops defending the Reich against the Allied bombing campaign mid 1943 than was employed in the Zitadelle.
> Hitler aborted Zitadelle, right after the victory at Prochorowka when he found out about the invasion of Sicily, and immediately send his strongest units to Italy.
> That shows his priorities.
> Targetting the oil production affected the Eastern Front. The West has a significant part in the victories also on the Eastern Front, as any vehicle blown up due to lack of fuel should be counted as a Western kill.



Youre slamming in open doors. Anyone who know one or two things about WW2, is aware of the Allied effort in North Africa, Mediterranen and Middle East. I already mention that the victory over Nazis was a combined Allied effort. Still its clear that Soviet faced the hardest battles and remained most devasstated after the War, having lost nearly 20 million people.

France, Benelux and Scandinavia gave up without any significant fight. Spain kinda remained vague and was spared, Italy was an ally so again spared. Baltics and Finns were Nazi allies.

It was Britain and Soviet who stood alone against the odds for long periods. Britain was never invaded but Soviet wasnt nearly as lucky.

The Soviet victory over Nazi was in many ways one of those rare comebacks, because they were on the brink of collapse. When it got its things in order, it began griding victories, albeit with huge losses, but eventually steamrolling into Germany by the end of the war.

One big factor of why Russian lost so many people was that Nazis really hated slavic people. When they occupied Scandinavia forexample, they threated the civilians relatively well compared to what Slavic Russian had to go through. Much of the railways in Northern Norway forexample was built by Nazis with Russian prisoners of war. Many of whom died from inhumane laboring and horrible conditions in concentration camps.

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## SQ8

Oublious said:


> does a fighter chopper or civil chopper have a air filter?


Yes - sand/dust filters are a common thing in helicopters

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## F-22Raptor

*The Russian military has likely decided to withdraw fully from its positions around Kharkiv City in the face of Ukrainian counteroffensives and the limited availability of reinforcements. *Russian units have generally not attempted to hold ground against counterattacking Ukrainian forces over the past several days, with a few exceptions. Reports from Western officials and a video from an officer of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) indicate that Moscow is focused on conducting an orderly withdrawal and prioritizing getting Russians back home before allowing proxy forces to enter Russia rather than trying to hold its positions near the city.

*Ukraine thus appears to have won the Battle of Kharkiv. Ukrainian forces prevented Russian troops from encircling, let alone seizing Kharkiv, and then expelled them from around the city, as they did to Russian forces attempting to seize Kyiv. *Ukrainian forces will likely attempt to disrupt at least the westernmost of the ground lines of communication (GLOCs) between Belgorod and Russian forces concentrated around Izyum, although Russia is using several GLOCs, including some further away from current Ukrainian positions than any Ukrainian counteroffensive is likely to reach soon. The terrain east of current Ukrainian positions may also favor the Russians attempting to defend their GLOCs, as large water features canalize movement and create chokepoints that the Ukrainians would have to breakthrough.






Institute for the Study of War


The Russian military has likely decided to withdraw fully from its positions around Kharkiv City in the face of Ukrainian counteroffensives and the limited availability of reinforcements. Russian units have generally not attempted to hold ground against




www.understandingwar.org






Ukraine has WON the Battle of Kharkiv!

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## Wood

Interesting interview from Ukrainian military chief. He says that Putin is very sick and predicts that war will change tide (in Ukrainian favour) be second half of August

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## RoadAmerica

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *Little Chinese girl’s analysis of Russia-Ukraine conflict through the perspective of Romance of Three Kingdom receives praise from Philippine Foreign Affairs Secretary*
> By Global TimesPublished: May 12, 2022
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Philippine Foreign Affairs Secretary, Teodoro Locsin Jr., praised the girl's commantary of Russia-Ukraine conflict as the 'smartest'. Source: Twitter
> 
> A video footage of a Chinese girl comparing Russia-Ukraine conflicts to the Romance of the Three Kingdoms has gone viral on the internet. The girl was then praised by the Philippine Foreign Affairs Secretary, Teodoro Locsin Jr., who commented that "Her generation of Chinese is the hope of China and the world", as reported by the media.
> 
> This little Chinese girl in school uniform is asked by her father* "What do you think about the situation between Russia and Ukraine?"* Although the question seems to be a little "beyond basic" for a school-aged child, the girl appears to only think about it for a moment, and then she starts confidently answering it in English.
> 
> The little girl first expressed sympathy for those who suffered in the war, then said that she had recently read the Romance of the Three Kingdoms and thought the situation between Russia and Ukraine was similar to it.
> 
> *"The US-led NATO is like the Cao Cao force," she said. "Russia is like the Jiang Dong under Sun Quan." *Ukraine is the battleground of Jingzhou, caught between both sides in the dispute, constantly teasing the nerves of the two.
> 
> The girl then further analyzed the situation: assuming that Jingzhou is captured by Cao Cao, "there is no strategic buffer zone." Cao Cao can directly go down the river, which is a great threat to Sun Quan who feels threatened by this. In this predicament, Sun Quan decides he cannot sit still and die, thus he starts the Battle of Chibi.
> 
> *"Look at the conflict between Russia and Ukraine today, there is no difference from the time of the Three Kingdoms," the little girl says in the video. NATO wants to expand eastward in Ukraine, and Russia, which is close to the door, cannot sit still, so the conflict finally broke out.*
> 
> When asked about the "fate" of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, the little girl said, "Think about Liu Cong." In history, Liu Cong directly surrendered to Cao Cao without a fight, causing Jingzhou to be acquired effortlessly, and then gradually disappeared from the stage of history.
> 
> "Although a comparison with the Three Kingdoms, is not rigorous enough to draw a perfect analogy of the situation between Russia and Ukraine, the little girl clearly realized that the essence of the conflict lies in the continuous eastward expansion of NATO led by the US. She has integrated what she has learned from the story with what she learned from the news and then she was able to express her opinions in fluent English, this level of analysis surpasses that of many of her peers and even some adults," said one netizen on the Chinese social media platform Sina Weibo.
> 
> Many netizens praised the child for her clear thinking and personal views despite her young age, and also expressed appreciation for the family education she received and that has allowed her to think independently.
> 
> In particular, the video impressed Teodoro Locsin Jr., the Philippine Foreign Affairs Secretary, who retweeted it many times on his Twitter account and was still recommending it as of May 9.
> 
> "This is the smartest commentary on the situation between Russia and Ukraine to date," the Foreign Affairs Secretary said, praising the little girl, "Her generation of Chinese is the hope of China and the world."
> 
> The Foreign Affairs Secretary even expressed his desire of possibly sending his granddaughter to China for education, "I want her to be a little girl with great insights like the one in the video."


Gtfo with this trash



CAPRICORN-88 said:


> BTW for your limited knowledge and lack of understanding of history, the US and West had imposed sanction on China then.
> 
> Although both Canada and Australia were willing to help by selling and shipping wheat to China, the US Administration overrule the sales claiming that they violated sanctions. Just like what they did to baby formulae powder, medicines, etc for Iraq, Syria, etc. We deemed these acts as INHUMAN. What do you think? Bomb them babies instead.
> 
> So you see the US and West has BLOOD in their hiddened hand over the death of allegedly 20 million hungry victims. All because the US and allies were wishing for a regime change in China.
> Just like what they did to Ukraine in 2014 ousting a democratically and duly elected President and replacing him with a clown.
> 
> But retribution and karma is what is happening to the US and allies today.
> 
> We are just watching and will not uttered silly comments like many of you askew individuals who does not know what they are doing.
> 
> Silly girls.


She’s no more than a Chinese Greta, given a script. Wake the f up bro!


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## RoadAmerica

DF41 said:


> USA better get on with it.
> 
> As by end of this year, USA and NATO and Japan will be spiralling into bankruptcy and their own black holes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ARK's Wood sees global recession, blames market selloff on Fed hike plan
> 
> 
> The global economy is in recession and recent stock market volatility is a sign investors believe that the Federal Reserve's plan to continue hiking interest rates is too aggressive, star stock picker Cathie Wood said in a webinar on Tuesday. Wood, whose ARK Innovation ETF outperformed all...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> finance.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Bill Gates says there's a 'strong argument' we're about to see a global economic slowdown" https://news.yahoo.com/bill-gates-says-theres-strong-110641908.html
> 
> "Rocket CEO: ‘We feel strongly there will be a recession here in the coming quarters’" https://finance.yahoo.com/video/rocket-ceo-feel-strongly-recession-133528164.html
> 
> 
> .
> 
> *🇨🇳🇨🇳🇨🇳 *WANG SUI WANG WANG SUI 萬歲 萬 萬歲* 🇨🇳🇨🇳🇨🇳*


Bet you as much money as you can spare your bs doesn’t happen? Let’s do it!


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## Wood




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## CAPRICORN-88

A.P. Richelieu said:


> They have also stolen half a million tons of grain from Ukraine…
> View attachment 843684


Stolen???
I have heard many of these wild allegations but IMO if it is true then someone must provide the proof. Easier said than done esp. in a warzone. So IMO it is just another propaganda.

Yes. It is true Ukraine is unable to ship these grains due to a blockade by the Russian in Black Sea but they are at war.

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## CAPRICORN-88

RoadAmerica said:


> Gtfo with this trash
> 
> 
> She’s no more than a Chinese Greta, given a script. Wake the f up bro!


Really. If this *happens in the US she will be hailed as a child protege. 

An essential element of the "Make America Great again" slogan. *

So get real.

IMO your US education system appeared to be perfect.

In producing kids that are only good in playing games on the mobiles.

And as one Americans explained, many Amerocans are terribly scare and jealous of Asian esp. Chinese achievement.

OK I am not complaining. Go and play your games or fight your war in Ukraine. 

But kindly enter into the battle scenes physically and not thru' proxies.

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## Hamartia Antidote

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Gas prices are displayed at a gas station in Washington, D.C., the United States, on May 11, 2022. U.S. consumer inflation in April surged by 8.3 percent from a year ago, marking the second straight month of inflation over 8 percent, the U.S. Labor Department reported Wednesday











USA gasoline prices, 10-Oct-2022 | GlobalPetrolPrices.com


Gasoline prices per litre, octane-95: We show prices for USA from 04-Jul-2022 to 10-Oct-2022. The average value for USA during that period was 1.14 U.S. Dollar with a minimum of 1.04 U.S. Dollar on 19-Sep-2022 and a maximum of 1.33 U.S. Dollar on 04-Jul-2022. For comparison, the average price of...




www.globalpetrolprices.com




USA Gasoline prices, 09-May-2022​
USA Gasoline prices*Litre*​*Gallon*​ CNY8.015​30.340​ USD1.191​*4.508*​ EUR1.128​4.270​












China gasoline prices, 07-Nov-2022 | GlobalPetrolPrices.com


Gasoline prices per litre, octane-95: We show prices for China from 01-Aug-2022 to 07-Nov-2022. The average value for China during that period was 8.95 Chinese Renminbi with a minimum of 8.79 Chinese Renminbi on 26-Sep-2022 and a maximum of 9.16 Chinese Renminbi on 01-Aug-2022. For comparison...




www.globalpetrolprices.com





China Gasoline prices*Litre*​*Gallon*​CNY9.091​34.413​USD1.351​*5.114*​EUR1.279​4.842​


When is China going to get that cheap gasoline from Russia??? Maybe they are already but the government is gouging consumers.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525084165695279104

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## CAPRICORN-88

Wood said:


>


Ukraine and Russia are at war.
In a warzone, the opposing armies will destroyed infrastructures e.g. airfields, military bases, dams, communication towers and bridges.

Done to serve the strategic advantage of the opposing side.

Latest news indicated to us that the advancement of Russian, DNR LNR militia are be suffering setbacks, hindered by the destructions of these important bridges.

So who blew up these bridges?

We really have no clue except to observe whose side is at the advantage.

So my bet is, it is done by the Ukrainian forces themselves. Russia will destroyed by missiles. But it looks to me like only like the bridge has been destroyed using explosives. Too neat.

Unfortunately CNN is one of those channel I have reservation.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Should provide MLRS type like HIMARS or M270s to hit Kupiansk. Ukrainians wouldn't have to try to fight too hard to hit that supply point.



They are, most likely MLRS, but as I point out before I left for Ukraine, once they signed the deal with BAe, there are always possibility for HIMARS and with US is backing the purchase, they will probably transfer a few HIMARS from the Marine and buy them from BAe themselves to replace it. 

M270 tho, there are excessive storage when the Marine ditched them and going for HIMARS. Which mean we would have some store, don't know how many there are but it could well be into high double digit, while it is not likely the US will transfer all M270 to Ukraine, but a handful of Battery would be likely, maybe less than 20 (3 batteries) 



Oldman1 said:


> The U.S. and other countries should give them M109s. About 200 from U.S. alone should do it along with other M109s from other countries.


M109 Paladin have been talked of, i don't know if they will be transfer, US had around 1000 (A mix bag of A6 and A7) but I doubt if they transfer it to Ukraine will be of anything like you said. Maybe 90-100 like the M777, taking away 10% of US stock is a lot, we depends heavily on them as well.


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## wahhab0202

Those prices are in local currencies. So china's price is the lowest


Hamartia Antidote said:


> China gasoline prices, 07-Nov-2022 | GlobalPetrolPrices.com
> 
> 
> Gasoline prices per litre, octane-95: We show prices for China from 01-Aug-2022 to 07-Nov-2022. The average value for China during that period was 8.95 Chinese Renminbi with a minimum of 8.79 Chinese Renminbi on 26-Sep-2022 and a maximum of 9.16 Chinese Renminbi on 01-Aug-2022. For comparison...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.globalpetrolprices.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China Gasoline prices*Litre*​*Gallon*​CNY9.091​34.413​USD1.351​*5.114*​EUR1.279​4.842​
> 
> 
> When is China going to get that cheap gasoline from Russia??? Maybe they are already but the government is gouging consumers.


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## wahhab0202

Hamartia Antidote said:


> China gasoline prices, 07-Nov-2022 | GlobalPetrolPrices.com
> 
> 
> Gasoline prices per litre, octane-95: We show prices for China from 01-Aug-2022 to 07-Nov-2022. The average value for China during that period was 8.95 Chinese Renminbi with a minimum of 8.79 Chinese Renminbi on 26-Sep-2022 and a maximum of 9.16 Chinese Renminbi on 01-Aug-2022. For comparison...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.globalpetrolprices.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China Gasoline prices*Litre*​*Gallon*​CNY9.091​34.413​USD1.351​*5.114*​EUR1.279​4.842​
> 
> 
> When is China going to get that cheap gasoline from Russia??? Maybe they are already but the government is gouging consumers.


The prices shown are in local currencies. So china's gasoline price is the lowest


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## PakAlp

War map 13/05/2022
Still a stalemate. Russia is struggling.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525215095319670786

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525207313707040768

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525183067794591744

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## jhungary

wahhab0202 said:


> Those prices are in local currencies. So china's price is the lowest


It's 9 RMB per litre, it's more than 1.4 USD per litre, which mean it is more than $5 per gallon. 1 Gallon = 4.54 Litre

US Gas price is about 4.7 -5 per gallon, which mean around 1.1 1.2 per litre. Here in Oz, it's 1.72 AUD per litre, which is around 1.2 USD per litre

China always have higher gas price than the West, they tax quite a lot of money from it.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525158074406916098

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525202559736094723

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525292772298743809

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525292868700717056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525292957137620993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525293099844521985

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525293196166762496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525293304946036737

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## Hamartia Antidote

wahhab0202 said:


> The prices shown are in local currencies. So china's gasoline price is the lowest


??

Is this "new Math" or something?

USA Gasoline prices, 09-May-2022​
USA Gasoline prices*Litre**Gallon*CNY*8.015*30.340USD1.191*4.508*EUR1.1284.270



China Gasoline prices*Litre**Gallon*CNY*9.091*34.413USD1.351*5.114*EUR1.2794.842


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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525292772298743809
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525292868700717056
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525292957137620993
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525293099844521985
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525293196166762496
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525293304946036737


Yeah, when I was in Ukraine, I am training their third rotation of TDF, which mean there are between 300,000 to 400,000 TDF before I come in. If I understand that correctly, there are 200,000 trained between Late Feb to Late March, then another 100,000 trained between Late March to Late April and I was training the third batch with another 100,000.

What people don't understand is, TDF is *NOT* the Ukrainian Army reserve, TDF is what we called "Citizen Soldier" much like our National Guard but with a bit less training (TDF course lasted around 40 days, while our National Guardsmen were trained for at least 90 days), and most of those reserve have combat experience in Donbas but was either recently discharged from the Army or were put into reserve unit awaiting discharge. TDF is basically everyday joe went thru 40 days army training and take up arms and fight.

There are more than 900,000 reserve Ukraine can call up, and at the time I left, there are roughly 400,000 to 450,000 TDF being trained up. Its not hard at all for them for form a million army before June.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525293489826701316

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525293587507957760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525293820111462402

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## ckf

Rand Paul blocking US 40 Billion aid to Ukraine, hope for America people/world economy and peace in Ukraine to the people of Ukraine

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## wahhab0202

Hamartia Antidote said:


> ??
> 
> Is this "new Math" or something?
> 
> USA Gasoline prices, 09-May-2022​
> USA Gasoline prices*Litre**Gallon*CNY*8.015*30.340USD1.191*4.508*EUR1.1284.270
> 
> 
> 
> China Gasoline prices*Litre**Gallon*CNY*9.091*34.413USD1.351*5.114*EUR1.2794.842


My bad. I was not updated on CNY USD conversion. Yes, gasoline is slightly more expensive in China than in US. US is the net exporter of hydrocarbon while China is the opposite AFAIK.

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## jhungary

ckf said:


> Rand Paul blocking US 40 Billion aid to Ukraine, hope for America people/world economy and peace in Ukraine to the people of Ukraine


Not blocked, delayed. 

He objected means it is going to the senate floor and vote on. It needed 66% of Senate to pass the bill, which Rand Paul is the only Republican holdout (If he agree (Means the entire Republican party agreed), then it don't need to vote but go straight to law) Which mean unless he started go filibuster, this law is going to pass by senate next week.

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## Viet

ckf said:


> Rand Paul blocking US 40 Billion aid to Ukraine, hope for America people/world economy and peace in Ukraine to the people of Ukraine


$60b is much. If you consider Putin wants to wipe Ukraine off the map, nuke Poland, Sweden, Finland, every country in Europe and even America then 60 billion USD is very cheap. The aim is to weaken Russia military, economically to the point that Putin can never wage war against any country again.

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## RescueRanger

Another excellent example of tactics of the brave Russian army:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524674335616741376
At this point all they can do is kill unarmed civilians and maimed soldiers.

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## Clutch

RescueRanger said:


> Another excellent example of tactics of the brave Russian army:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524674335616741376
> At this point all they can do is kill unarmed civilians and maimed soldiers.



Plenty of such videos of Americans in Iraq and Zionist in Palestine. ...


So what?

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## RescueRanger

Clutch said:


> Plenty of such videos of Americans in Iraq and Zionist in Palestine. ...
> 
> 
> So what?


I’m just trying to be impartial here - I’ve posted several videos of Ukrainian AF engaged in questionable practice too. 

If we express outrage at overzealous IDF police - then we should challenge the same behaviours elsewhere too.

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## Clutch

RescueRanger said:


> I’m just trying to be impartial here - I’ve posted several videos of Ukrainian AF engaged in questionable practice too.
> 
> If we express outrage at overzealous IDF police - then we should challenge the same behaviours elsewhere too.




I think Ukrainian have to wait inline for that outrage because Palestinians, Syrians, Iraqis, Yemeni are ahead of that line. When their turn comes.... I.e. once we have addressed the suffering of those suffering for decades longer.... We would then also include the Ukranian.


Because suffering of innocent should be irrespective of race, religion, and skin colour.... We just can't let Ukrainian jump the line because they are White and Blonde. Gotta wait.

Wait Ukrainian dead wait in line...

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## Lehrasap

Clutch said:


> I think Ukrainian have to wait inline for that outrage because Palestinians, Syrians, Iraqis, Yemeni are ahead of that line. When their turn comes.... I.e. once we have addressed the suffering of those suffering for decades longer.... We would then also include the Ukranian.
> 
> 
> Because suffering of innocent should be irrespective of race, religion, and skin colour.... We just can't let Ukrainian jump the line because they are White and Blonde. Gotta wait.



WAIT????
It is not a wise argument.
When we protest for ALL the Palestinians and Iraqis and Syrians at the same time, why not then to include the Ukraine too in the list of protest?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525372045487271936

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525070384650936322

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525239513299181569

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525374008169930753

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525379385569775616

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## Soldier35

A Czech-made RM-70 multiple launch rocket system has been spotted in Ukraine. RM-70 MLRS have been produced in Czechoslovakia since 1972. The RM-70 can be considered an analogue of the Soviet Grad MLRS, but the system has a number of distinct advantages. For example, it has greater cross-country ability and is able to hit targets at a greater distance. Until now, about fifty such MLRS remained in the Czech Republic, most of them were decommissioned and were in storage.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525341650087727104

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525240272510066688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525268967572574208

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## Broccoli

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525215095319670786



Russians are a tad late with that since less than 7% Finnish energy is produced with Russian gas and soon new 1600mw nuclear powerplant is on full production capacity and that alone produces more energy than what Russians gas does. Finland is getting most of it's foreign enery from Sweden and Norway.

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## Viet

The chairman of Germany parliament foreign committee, Michael Roth, says Germany shall provide security assurance to Sweden and Finland during Nato entry process.
I wonder how is it going to work should Russia decide to invade those Nordic countries?
Russia conversational army is weakened there is little to no risk. However what happens if Putin suffers defeat, runs amok and uses nukes?









Liveblog: ++ Selenskyj will pro-russische Parteien verbieten ++


Der ukrainische Präsident Selenskyj soll ein Gesetz unterzeichnet haben, das pro-russische Parteien künftig verbietet. Ein Auto-Konvoi mit Zivilisten konnte offenbar die belagerte Stadt Mariupol verlassen. Alle Entwicklungen im Liveblog.




www.tagesschau.de


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## CAPRICORN-88

Clutch said:


> Plenty of such videos of Americans in Iraq and Zionist in Palestine. ...
> 
> 
> So what?


It is in fact a CG video generated by a gamer.
So many of them.
I just saw one showing how they shoot down K-52 Alligator Attack Helicopter. Look so real that many people believed that they are real.

 

This is what I mean when I say: using disinformation to win a war. But can they?

The Russian, DNR and LNR militia are suffering some setbacks in the advancement as connecting bridges were destroyed by defending Ukrainian Forces.

The point is: These tactics probably delayed the operation but won't changed anything.

Latest news. DNR Militia has captured a fully intact US supplied M777 howitzer from the Ukrainian forces.

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## Viet

Interesting remark

Ukraine ‘s military security service, major general Kyrylo Budano, expects to crush the Russian army by end of the year. The tide will turn in mid of August. Ukraine will retake all occupied territories from Russia including Crimea. The strength of Russia army, second after the United States, is a myth, russian soldiers are simply a hordes with weapons.

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## MeFishToo

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> It is in fact a CG video generated by a gamer.
> So many of them.
> I just saw one showing how they shoot down K-52 Alligator Attack Helicopter. Look so real that many people believed that they are real.
> 
> 
> 
> This is what I mean when I say: using disinformation to win a war. But can they?
> 
> The Russian, DNR and LNR militia are suffering some setbacks in the advancement as connecting bridges were destroyed by defending Ukrainian Forces.
> 
> The point is: These tactics probably delayed the operation but won't changed anything.
> 
> Latest news. DNR Militia has captured a fully intact US supplied M777 howitzer from the Ukrainian forces.


We are watching evidence from cctv and you label it disinformation, yet have no problem spreading claims of a captured M777 howitzer.
How is that even possible if Russia destroyed them all the moment they crossed into Ukraine?
Btw why would Ukraine place a M777 at the frontline?

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## CAPRICORN-88

MeFishToo said:


> We are watching evidence from cctv and you label it disinformation, yet have no problem spreading claims of a captured M777 howitzer.
> How is that even possible if Russia destroyed them all the moment they crossed into Ukraine?
> Btw why would Ukraine place a M777 at the frontline?


That depends on how much you understand about CCTV camera system. We know Ukrainian don't have top of the line cameras. 

What resolution do you reckoned those you claimed as evidence were taken to begin with?

Anyone with a basic knowledge of computer simulation will laughed at you.

I don't want to discussed logic or commonsense with you.

You should be asking or wondering like me where did they managed capture the howitzer mentioned instead.

I believe it could be during the failed Ukrainian attack near Snake Island and Odessa.

We know the Russia DNR LNR militia are approaching towards the direction Severodonetsk.

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## Viet

Ukraine warns anyone who buys stolen Ukrainian grain from Russia faces legal consequences​






A view of some wheat in a field on May 6, 2022 in Egypt. Ukraine is warning countries that Russian grain exports may contain stolen Ukrainian grain, and anyone that knowingly purchases stolen grain or is involved in the process is considered complicit in the crime.
Fadel Dawod | Getty Images News | Getty Images

Ukraine is warning countries that Russian grain exports may contain stolen Ukrainian grain, and anyone that knowingly purchases it is considered complicit in the crime.

"Russian occupants are stealing Ukrainian grain and either consuming it themselves or attempting to sell it on international markets," Ukraine's Ministry of Foreign Affairs said in a statement.

Ukraine's foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, also said that everyone involved in the transportation and sales of stolen grain will face legal consequences, the Associated Press reported.

"Your actions will have adequate international legal consequences. We will do everything to make your life as difficult as possible," Kuleba said, commenting on media reports that a Russian ship carrying Ukrainian grain moored off the Syrian coast, according to the Associated Press.

The Russians have already seized at least 400 to 500 thousand tons of grain worth more than $100 million, Ukraine's Ministry of Foreign Affairs said.

"Almost all grain-laden ships departing from Sevastopol transport stolen Ukrainian commodities," the ministry added.

Sevastopol is a major port on the Black Sea in Crimea, which Russia annexed in 2014.
_— Chelsea Ong_

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## Paul2

Viet said:


> However what happens if Putin suffers defeat, runs amok and uses nukes?



They will have to start mobilisation to cover for coming losses during nuclear warfare


----------



## Apollon

German Zeit magazine reports Ukraine won the battle of Kharkov. All russian forces flee... 







ZEIT ONLINE | Lesen Sie zeit.de mit Werbung oder im PUR-Abo. Sie haben die Wahl.







www.zeit.de


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Wergeland said:


> Youre slamming in open doors. Anyone who know one or two things about WW2, is aware of the Allied effort in North Africa, Mediterranen and Middle East. I already mention that the victory over Nazis was a combined Allied effort. Still its clear that Soviet faced the hardest battles and remained most devasstated after the War, having lost nearly 20 million people.
> 
> France, Benelux and Scandinavia gave up without any significant fight. Spain kinda remained vague and was spared, Italy was an ally so again spared. Baltics and Finns were Nazi allies.
> 
> It was Britain and Soviet who stood alone against the odds for long periods. Britain was never invaded but Soviet wasnt nearly as lucky.
> 
> The Soviet victory over Nazi was in many ways one of those rare comebacks, because they were on the brink of collapse. When it got its things in order, it began griding victories, albeit with huge losses, but eventually steamrolling into Germany by the end of the war.
> 
> One big factor of why Russian lost so many people was that Nazis really hated slavic people. When they occupied Scandinavia forexample, they threated the civilians relatively well compared to what Slavic Russian had to go through. Much of the railways in Northern Norway forexample was built by Nazis with Russian prisoners of war. Many of whom died from inhumane laboring and horrible conditions in concentration camps.


And you do not even respond to the argument.
This is that Germany spent more Reichmarks trying to defeat the West, than it did trying to defeat the Soviet Union.

The number of Soviets or Germans killed on the Eastern front is not important for the economics of war.

The West made a significant contribution to the losses on the Eastern Front, while the Soviets made minimal contribution to the war in the West.

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## MeFishToo

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> That depends on how much you understand about CCTV camera system. We know Ukrainian don't have top of the line cameras.
> 
> What resolution do you reckoned those you claimed as evidence were taken to begin with?
> 
> Anyone with a basic knowledge of computer simulation will laughed at you.
> 
> I don't want to discussed logic or commonsense with you.
> 
> You should be asking or wondering like me where did they managed capture the howitzer mentioned instead.
> 
> I believe it could be during the failed Ukrainian attack near Snake Island and Odessa.
> 
> We know the Russia DNR LNR militia are approaching towards the direction Severodonetsk.


You´re not exactly convincing arguing my lack of common sense and logic is the reason I dont consider russian propaganda and undocumented claims evidence.
You’re even using the fake ”Snake Island attack” created by Russia to hide the fact that Russia couldnt defend the island from ukrainian air assualts.
Did you use much logic when you chose to belive that story? Why would Ukraine want to place anything on an island they’re unable to defend from russian missile and air attacks? It makes no sense at all. But Russia doesnt care, because the pro russians will belive anything.

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## Viet

Paul2 said:


> They will have to start mobilisation to cover for coming losses during nuclear warfare


The game is over. There is no way out. Seen him at the parade day? Putin looks sick, has aged dramatically in the last days. Many think he will use the last joker: official declaration of war and general mobilization in the coming day. His ergo is bigger. Before he dies he will take the world with him.


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## Vergennes

Russia is being actually defeated on the Kharkiv front just like it was defeated on the Kyiv,Chernihiv and Sumy fronts. But Russian bots and trolls here are going to tell us "it was a feint".

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## Broccoli

"It's just a feint". 

"Tactical retreat, bro". 

"If Russia really wanted they would get into Paris in a week". 

"Russia is superpower number one". 

"Russian military planned to lose thosands armored vehicles. 4D chess, man".

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## Vergennes

Broccoli said:


> "It's just a feint".
> 
> "Tactical retreat, bro".
> 
> "If Russia really wanted they would get into Paris in a week".
> 
> "Russia is superpower number one".
> 
> "Russian military planned to lose thosands armored vehicles. 4D chess, man".

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## LeGenD

Wergeland said:


> Youre slamming in open doors. Anyone who know one or two things about WW2, is aware of the Allied effort in North Africa, Mediterranen and Middle East. I already mention that the victory over Nazis was a combined Allied effort. Still its clear that Soviet faced the hardest battles and remained most devasstated after the War, having lost nearly 20 million people.
> 
> France, Benelux and Scandinavia gave up without any significant fight. Spain kinda remained vague and was spared, Italy was an ally so again spared. Baltics and Finns were Nazi allies.
> 
> It was Britain and Soviet who stood alone against the odds for long periods. Britain was never invaded but Soviet wasnt nearly as lucky.
> 
> The Soviet victory over Nazi was in many ways one of those rare comebacks, because they were on the brink of collapse. When it got its things in order, it began griding victories, albeit with huge losses, but eventually steamrolling into Germany by the end of the war.
> 
> One big factor of why Russian lost so many people was that Nazis really hated slavic people. When they occupied Scandinavia forexample, they threated the civilians relatively well compared to what Slavic Russian had to go through. Much of the railways in Northern Norway forexample was built by Nazis with Russian prisoners of war. Many of whom died from inhumane laboring and horrible conditions in concentration camps.



Following factors paved way for Soviet comeback in the war:

1. Operation Avalanche of US-led forces compelled Hitler to divert precious military resources to Italy in 1943. This development coincide with defeat of German forces in the Battle of Kursk in USSR - Germany was unable to reinforce its forces for this crucial battle. This was the turning point of the war in the Eastern front.

Impact of Stalingrad was/is overhyped by some historians.

2. USA was providing extensive material support to USSR via its Lend Lease Program. USSR received a large number of trucks, tanks and aircraft from USA and (even UK) for free. Trucks were instrumental in providing mobility to Soviet forces - a crucial component of the war effort (overlooked by some historians).

German forces had significant mobility and logistics problems in USSR on the other hand. Many of the German supply lines involved use of animals (too slow to be impactful). German advances in USSR lost momentum due to this problem and mounting losses.



Wergeland said:


> Neither Soviet or Russia was/is an Angel.
> 
> Germany and Soviet both carved up eastern Europe in order to creater big buffer against eachother. Communists and Nazis hated eachother. Hitler despised communists and accused it for being a jewish conspiracy.



Indeed.



Wergeland said:


> Still, looking at the result theres no doubt the Soviet Union was the real warrior of WW2. Although Nazi Germany was defeated theough Allied afforts, it was Soviet who dealt the biggest blow to Hitler.



Soviet push towards Berlin was impactful in its own right but there are other realities to consider some of which I pointed out above. US-led forces made it impractical for German forces to push too far in USSR.

US-led forces forces slowly but surely degraded German naval forces and Air Power (British contributions are particularly notable), and American bombers subjected German industrial zones to strategic bombing runs at a later stage. Bombing of Dresdan produced effects similar to that of a nuclear bomb (minus radiation).

US-led forces produced much greater effects due to having a strong and capable naval component which provided the ability to reach and fight in any location when feasible. British terrain was also utilized like an aircraft carrier for the Western Front.

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## Paul2

Viet said:


> The game is over. There is no way out. Seen him at the parade day? Putin looks sick, has aged dramatically in the last days. Many think he will use the last joker: official declaration of war and general mobilization in the coming day. His ergo is bigger. Before he dies he will take the world with him.
> 
> View attachment 843871



You absolutely can never be sure that your enemy wouldn't use its biggest weapon first. That's the basics of tactics.

But also we know that Putin never had even a basic military education. KGB were intentionally trained to be dummies in military matters to deter them interfering, or trying to seize power back in USSR, or so I was told when we spoke about who is axing whom now in Kazakhstan with locals.

This is why all across ex-USSR, where the president was an ex-KGB, or used to rely on KGB, the military was reduced to nothing, and all influential generals were purged.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Clutch said:


> Plenty of such videos of Americans in Iraq and Zionist in Palestine. ...
> 
> 
> So what?


I dare you to produce a single video of a peaceful individual killed like this.

I am pretty sure you will produce videos of people killed after they or others in the vicinity has engaged in combat or otherwise acted in a threatening way.

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## Broccoli

Russian military has lost over 100 T-72B3 Object 2016 tanks out of 570 and those have modern western optics what Russians can't get anymore and those losses continue. Most common tank among Russian army ranks is T-72B and it's variants but all of those lack proper armor and come with primitive night-vision sights what render them almost unusable during night time. 

How many of those modern tanks are actually operational? Probably not many as we've seen Russians driving around in ancient T-72A tanks.


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## mulj

A.P. Richelieu said:


> I dare you to produce a single video of a peaceful individual killed like this.
> 
> I am pretty sure you will produce videos of people killed after they or others in the vicinity has engaged in combat or otherwise acted in a threatening way.


Are you nuts, couple of days ago journalist killed in broad daylight, iraqi girl raped and killed along her family, this just on top of my head.
Who are you trying to bulshit here?

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## BHAN85

RescueRanger said:


> Good article - thank you for sharing. always good to look at different perspectives.



He knows very well how is USA behavior, he worked in USA state and he studied where other USA state members were taught.

That's not his best article, he has a lot more.

Particularly I remember one article where he explains how USA controls European elite.
He asked to his PhD professor how USA achieves control European elite and make his will, the answer was easy: bagfuls of money.









Articles & Columns Archives - PaulCraigRoberts.org







www.paulcraigroberts.org


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## kingQamaR

The problem with the tanks being used by Russia in Ukraine is not the tanks, it is the tactics and total lack of modern combined arms doctrine. The tanks would be very effective if they were used properly. Instead they are becoming coffins for their crews.

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## A.P. Richelieu

mulj said:


> Are you nuts, couple of days ago journalist killed in broad daylight, iraqi girl raped and killed along her family, this just on top of my head.
> Who are you trying to bulshit here?


Journalist killed in broad daylight by an unknown killer *during a firefight.*
That is exactly the type of stuff I expected.
Your top of the head is no video…

Bringing up crimes which were punished by the US Army just shows that the US have some decency that Russia lacks.


----------



## BHAN85

mulj said:


> Are you nuts, couple of days ago journalist killed in broad daylight, iraqi girl raped and killed along her family, this just on top of my head.
> Who are you trying to bulshit here?



That moron only understand by human being when it's blue eyes and blonde.

If democracies kill unarmed Afghanistan civilians is not a crime for that piece of shit.

It's part of their brainwashing, excuse him for be absolutely evil and brainless.

American ruling elite doesnt give a fck about kill brown or white people, and someday that kind of people will learn that lesson.

It's near that day, Ukraine is the start of USA wars plans to Europe.

NATO european members feels safely killing non-white people last years around the world, now it's their turn, they will backstabbed by USA, like Saddam was.

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## CAPRICORN-88

MeFishToo said:


> You´re not exactly convincing arguing my lack of common sense and logic is the reason I dont consider russian propaganda and undocumented claims evidence.
> You’re even using the fake ”Snake Island attack” created by Russia to hide the fact that Russia couldnt defend the island from ukrainian air assualts.
> Did you use much logic when you chose to belive that story? Why would Ukraine want to place anything on an island they’re unable to defend from russian missile and air attacks? It makes no sense at all. But Russia doesnt care, because the pro russians will belive anything.


Time will tell. You may have a stake but I do not.

I will not waste my time trying to prove anything as I seriously do not care who wins.

But all signs are indicating including UK News Media e.g. Guardian News, etc are beginning to acknowledge that all is not well in Ukraine front.

Those who understands warfare will realized that it is the DNR and LNR militia doing the main or primary fighting now.
The role of Russian forces is secondary.

But they have to wait for the DNR and LNR militia to finish their job before progressing forward.

As I says earlier on, a slow and steady approach to final liberation from the neo-Nazi.

Life in the region they have liberated are now normal with Russian Ruble introduced as the alternative currency and new Mayors appointed.


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## Broccoli

kingQamaR said:


> The problem with the tanks being used by Russia in Ukraine is not the tanks, it is the tactics and total lack of modern combined arms doctrine. The tanks would be very effective if they were used properly. Instead they are becoming coffins for their crews.



Most Russian AFV's can't accuire targets fast due their primitive sights nor can they see far unless conditions are optimal and land is flat.

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## Vergennes

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Those who understands warfare will realized that it is the DNR and LNR militia doing the main or primary fighting now.
> The role of Russian forces is secondary.



That is a lame excuse to justify Russian armed forces' poor performance on the ground as everyone knows the planning and the offensives are made by Russian officers and Russian soldiers.


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## CAPRICORN-88

Vergennes said:


> That is a lame excuse to justify Russian armed forces' poor performance on the ground as everyone knows the planning and the offensives are made by Russian officers and Russian soldiers.


Come on.
Based on whose information? Are they corroborated?
Get real.  

When Russia forces initially entered the war in Syria, Assad controlled only 10% of the region.

Using Syrian fighters, after the Russian stop their operation, they controlled 80% of the region.

So based on my observation, what they are doing in Ukraine is almost similar to what they did in Syria then.

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## MeFishToo

Vergennes said:


> That is a lame excuse to justify Russian armed forces' poor performance on the ground as everyone knows the planning and the offensives are made by Russian officers and Russian soldiers.


DNR and LNR “militias” is just another russian propaganda story. Eastern Ukraine has been a russian warfare area lead by invading russian military units for 8 years, and everybody knows it - even the ones pretending this is a special operation meant to liberate Ukraine from “nazies”.


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## mhosein

“Operation Orbital is the code name for a British military operation to train and support Ukrainian forces. Started in 2015, more than 22,000 Ukrainian soldiers have gone through this program”

And a sign to the Right Sector as a memento of the good times. Judging by the flags, from the British and Danes, who also took part in the operation as instructors. It is noteworthy that if you google the 56th brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, you will not find anything that would connect it with the Right Sector. Nevertheless, the recognizable symbols and flags of the Right Sector (black-and-red) are scattered throughout the base.

In case someone has any doubts that Western specialists were engaged in the preparation of radicals in Ukraine.

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## A.P. Richelieu

BHAN85 said:


> That moron only understand by human being when it's blue eyes and blonde.
> 
> If democracies kill unarmed Afghanistan civilians is not a crime for that piece of shit.
> 
> It's part of their brainwashing, excuse him for be absolutely evil and brainless.
> 
> American ruling elite doesnt give a fck about kill brown or white people, and someday that kind of people will learn that lesson.
> 
> It's near that day, Ukraine is the start of USA wars plans to Europe.
> 
> NATO european members feels safely killing non-white people last years around the world, now it's their turn, they will backstabbed by USA, like Saddam was.


No videos forthcoming I guess.

Civilians gets killed in warfare for a variety of reasons.

I judge the legality based on intention and knowledge.

You judge legality based on race.

How many Palestinians has been convicted by the Palestinian Authorities for War Crimes against the Israelis?

How many Taliban has been convicted by the Taliban for War Crimes against Americans?

Who are the racist?

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## mhosein

Ukraine: Ukrainian soldiers are upset about the T-72M1 tanks that were given to Ukraine by Poland. Rightly so, the tanks are under-equipped for modern warfare and lack modern guidance and targeting systems.

As a matter of fact, the Ukrainians prefer their own, older T-64s that are 10:1 more likely to survive combat [Thanks the NATO armament program over the past 8 years!]. But why such a surprise? Poland told you their T-72M1 tanks lacked modern guidance and targeting systems and were under equipped before transferring them. Caveat emptor. Buyer beware.











🇺🇦⚡Ukraine spent more than $8 billion on military operations against Russia

In an interview with Reuters, Ukrainian Finance Minister Serhiy Marchenko said that Ukraine has already spent UAH 245.1 billion (about $8.3 billion) on waging war with Russia.

According to Marchenko, funds pledged for development went to everything from the purchase and repair of weapons to emergency assistance to internally displaced persons. The government collected only 60% of the planned tax revenues for April, in May-June this figure may drop to the level of 45-50%.

“Kyiv needs foreign financial support as Ukraine is forced to send billions of dollars for emergency expenses. According to the Ministry of Finance, $5 billion a month is needed to finance the state budget,” the minister stressed.


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## Paul2

mhosein said:


> Ukraine: Ukrainian soldiers are upset about the T-72M1 tanks that were given to Ukraine by Poland. Rightly so, the tanks are under-equipped for modern warfare and lack modern guidance and targeting systems.
> 
> As a matter of fact, the Ukrainians prefer their own, older T-64s that are 10:1 more likely to survive combat [Thanks the NATO armament program over the past 8 years!]. But why such a surprise? Poland told you their T-72M1 tanks lacked modern guidance and targeting systems and were under equipped before transferring them. Caveat emptor. Buyer beware.
> 
> View attachment 843886
> 
> 
> View attachment 843888
> 
> 
> 🇺🇦⚡Ukraine spent more than $8 billion on military operations against Russia
> 
> In an interview with Reuters, Ukrainian Finance Minister Serhiy Marchenko said that Ukraine has already spent UAH 245.1 billion (about $8.3 billion) on waging war with Russia.
> 
> According to Marchenko, funds pledged for development went to everything from the purchase and repair of weapons to emergency assistance to internally displaced persons. The government collected only 60% of the planned tax revenues for April, in May-June this figure may drop to the level of 45-50%.
> 
> “Kyiv needs foreign financial support as Ukraine is forced to send billions of dollars for emergency expenses. According to the Ministry of Finance, $5 billion a month is needed to finance the state budget,” the minister stressed.
> 
> View attachment 843891



Polish tanks are now in Khesanh oblast, and Ukrainian tanks guarding the rear are now moved forward.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525432463169925121

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525337216649674754

Another victory for Ukraine

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## mulj

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Journalist killed in broad daylight by an unknown killer *during a firefight.*
> That is exactly the type of stuff I expected.
> Your top of the head is no video…
> 
> Bringing up crimes which were punished by the US Army just shows that the US have some decency that Russia lacks.


Yea, like 55 others in past...
I do not give a shit what you expect as you hold some moral high ground, which you do not.
For me usa is similar villian like russia only with more cosmetic applied on dirty face.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525443677350404096

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## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> War with Iran could have stopped after two years , But your Ayatollah refused a so the war lasted 8 years. nb And ended at about the same lines.
> 
> Pointless casualties for 6 years and your Ayatollah shares/bear the responsibility for that.
> 
> ~


What peace the proposals at the time didn't included returning to international border. It didn't included swapping the prisoners of war. It didn't included recognition of who started the war

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525447338189365248

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## A.P. Richelieu

mulj said:


> Yea, like 55 others in past...
> I do not give a shit what you expect as you hold some moral high ground, which you do not.
> For me usa is similar villian like russia only with more cosmetic applied on dirty face.


When you are running out of arguments a bit of racism always helps.


----------



## Vergennes

So beautiful to watch


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525192413031059456


----------



## SalarHaqq

A.P. Richelieu said:


> I dare you to produce a single video of a peaceful individual killed like this.



There is not a single video proving the killing of a peaceful individual by Russian forces in their current campaign in Ukraine.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Bringing up crimes which were punished by the US Army just shows that the US have some decency that Russia lacks.



It just shows that the US military commits atrocious war crimes across the board. Punishment is never proportional or adequate.

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## The SC

German Chancellor Olaf Schulz said that the EU would accompany Ukraine on the path to European integration, but there were clear criteria for joining the community, such as "a stable democracy, ensuring the rule of law, and a functioning social market economy":


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525404332111306754


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525362977708417024


Vergennes said:


> So beautiful to watch
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525192413031059456



That guy ran the wrong way


----------



## Paul2

Izyum gap is finally melting it seems.

Russians are pulling forces bit by bit, few villages are going back to Ukraine.

Russians entered the town a month ago, and since then they were unable to push through it, and stuck exactly in the centre of the choke point.

Then they stood there exchanging artillery fire with Ukrainians for 4 weeks. At least 4 divisions worth of units were there, taking shelling all these 4 weeks.

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## sammuel

Hack-Hook said:


> What peace the proposals at the time didn't included returning to international border. It didn't included swapping the prisoners of war. It didn't included recognition of who started the war




On 20 June 1982, Saddam announced that he wanted to sue for peace and proposed an immediate ceasefire and withdrawal from Iranian territory within two weeks.[152] Khomeini responded by saying the war would not end until a new government was installed in Iraq and reparations paid.[153] He proclaimed that Iran would invade Iraq and would not stop until the Ba'ath regime was replaced by an Islamic republic









Iran–Iraq War - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## BHAN85

A.P. Richelieu said:


> No videos forthcoming I guess.
> 
> Civilians gets killed in warfare for a variety of reasons.
> 
> I judge the legality based on intention and knowledge.
> 
> You judge legality based on race.
> 
> How many Palestinians has been convicted by the Palestinian Authorities for War Crimes against the Israelis?
> 
> How many Taliban has been convicted by the Taliban for War Crimes against Americans?
> 
> Who are the racist?



Russians are protecting their borders and you criticize them.

NATO was protecting nothing in the Afghanistan war and you want your country join them.

All wars have collateral civilian damage, but this war is neccesary for Russia security.

Afghanistan NATO war was not necessary for NATO security.

It was just a free crime, a way to train their troops and test weapons under the lie of 911 attacks. And you want your country join to such evil organization under the pretext of Russian evilness .

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## MeFishToo

mhosein said:


> “Operation Orbital is the code name for a British military operation to train and support Ukrainian forces. Started in 2015, more than 22,000 Ukrainian soldiers have gone through this program”
> 
> And a sign to the Right Sector as a memento of the good times. Judging by the flags, from the British and Danes, who also took part in the operation as instructors. It is noteworthy that if you google the 56th brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, you will not find anything that would connect it with the Right Sector. Nevertheless, the recognizable symbols and flags of the Right Sector (black-and-red) are scattered throughout the base.
> 
> In case someone has any doubts that Western specialists were engaged in the preparation of radicals in Ukraine.
> 
> View attachment 843885


Its no secret the ukrainian military were trained by western instructors. And its no secret the russian narative for the last 8 years has been to label anything ukrainian “right sector nationalist nazi”. 
Now its everyone being against this russian expansionism that is labelled Nazi. Honestly, I dont think anyone cares, besides anti western internet bots and trolls.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525471632478838786

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## MeFishToo

BHAN85 said:


> Russians are protecting their borders and you criticize them.
> 
> NATO was protecting nothing in the Afghanistan war and you want your country join them.
> 
> All wars have collateral civilian damage, but this war is neccesary for Russia security.
> 
> Afghanistan NATO war was not necessary for NATO security.
> 
> It was just a free crime, a way to train their troops and test weapons under the lie of 911 attacks. And you want your country join to such evil organization under the pretext of Russian evilness .


Are you serious? Russia is defending its borders inside Ukraine. How is that even possible.

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## SalarHaqq

sammuel said:


> On 20 June 1982, Saddam announced that he wanted to sue for peace and proposed an immediate ceasefire and withdrawal from Iranian territory within two weeks.[152] Khomeini responded by saying the war would not end until a new government was installed in Iraq and reparations paid.[153] He proclaimed that Iran would invade Iraq and would not stop until the Ba'ath regime was replaced by an Islamic republic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran–Iraq War - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



None of this is addressing any of the facts the user mentioned.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524413393029021696

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## LeGenD

*Earlier situation:*







Blue areas = Ukrainian gains

Red areas = Under occupation of Russian forces

*Latest situation:*







Ukraine has likely won the Battle of Kharkiv. Russian forces continued to withdraw from the northern settlements around Kharkiv City. Ukrainian forces will likely attempt to disrupt Russian ground lines of communication to Izyum.
Ukrainian forces have likely disrupted the Russian attempt to cross the Siverskyi Donets River in force, undermining Russian efforts to mass troops in northern Donbas and complete the encirclement of Severodonetsk and Lysychansk.
Russian forces have likely secured the highway near the western entrance to the Azovstal Steel Plant but fighting for the facility continues.
Russian forces in Zaporizhia Oblast are likely attempting to reach artillery range outside Zaporizhia City.
Ukrainian forces are reportedly attempting to regain control of Snake Island off the Romanian coast or at least disrupt Russia’s ability to use it.






Institute for the Study of War


The Russian military has likely decided to withdraw fully from its positions around Kharkiv City in the face of Ukrainian counteroffensives and the limited availability of reinforcements. Russian units have generally not attempted to hold ground against




www.understandingwar.org

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## BHAN85

MeFishToo said:


> Are you serious? Russia is defending its borders inside Ukraine. How is that even possible.



USA was defending its security in Afghanistan, How the hell is that even possible.

You wont make that question.

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## SalarHaqq

LeGenD said:


> There is another source which documents Russian losses on the whole. It is very graphic so I am not posting it here.
> 
> 26000 Russian KIA by now.



No source exists documenting 26000 Russian casualties.

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## MeFishToo

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525471632478838786


Russian helicopters firing rockets like that too. I dont think it has any real effect, but no helicopter seems to be safe above ground near the frontline, so they have to fire in a 45 degree angel to gain enough distance.



BHAN85 said:


> USA was defending its security in Afghanistan, How the hell is that even possible.
> 
> You wont make that question.


Why should I? This is about Ukraine and Russia.


----------



## BHAN85

MeFishToo said:


> Why should I? This is about Ukraine and Russia.



I was asking how a Swede can want to join a organization like NATO who kill Afghan civilian as sport training for troops when he's screaming about Russia crimes in Ukraine.

Russia is protecting its security in Ukraine.
NATO was protecting nothing in Afghanistan.

But kill Afghanistan brown civilian people is OK for people under the brainwashing of NATO.

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## MeFishToo

BHAN85 said:


> I was asking how a Swede can want to join a organization like NATO who kill Afghan civilian as sport training for troops when he's screaming about Russia crimes in Ukraine.
> 
> Russia is protecting its security in Ukraine.
> NATO was protecting nothing in Afghanistan.
> 
> But kill Afghanistan brown civilian people is OK for people under the brainwashing of NATO.


Sweden like Finland wants to join NATO because Russia is a threat to all of Europe. Youre against NATO because of your own racism. Thats your problem and not Swedens.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525181020974325760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525191763341848578

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525283139358281729

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525177136914513921

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525280812056428544


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## CAPRICORN-88

Both Turkey and Hungary said that they will veto the entry of Finland and Sweden into NATO.

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## BHAN85

MeFishToo said:


> Sweden like Finland wants to join NATO because Russia is a treat to all of Europe. Youre against NATO because of your own racism. Thats your problem and not Swedens.



It doesn matter if normal people is racist or not.
What matters is that USA ruling elite is not racist.
Your life has the same value for them than Afghanistan people: zero.

And current Europe escalation due to Ukraine is the first sympton.

Racism is part of NATO brainwashing, but it's just a way to rule over a large amount of armed people and make them feel safe when they make nonsense wars in Afghanistan or Libya. They think: We are white like the Americans, they won't betray us, we aren't muslim and we'll be safe in future USA wars.

We'll see it.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525478939224842240

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525457945932320768

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525457720744329219

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525454546843185155

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525452783834505216

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## CAPRICORN-88

Europe faces gas supply disruption after Russia imposes sanctions​_Moscow’s measures and Ukraine’s halting of a major supply route to Europe have sent prices on the continent soaring.


After Moscow imposed sanctions on European subsidiaries of Russia’s state-owned Gazprom energy giant and Ukraine shuttered a major gas transit route, pushing prices higher.

Al Jazeera May 12, 2022_

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525469825660854274


----------



## The SC

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Both Turkey and Hungary said that they will veto the entry of Finland and Sweden into NATO.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525469276039266306


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

SalarHaqq said:


> There is not a single video documenting the killing of a peaceful individual by Russian forces in their current campaign in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> It just shows that the US military commits atrocious war crimes across the board. Punished crimes are merely the tip of the iceberg and punishment is never proportional or adequate.


The claim was that there are multiple videos showing Israelis and Americans killing peaceful individuals.
So far, noone has been able to prove that claim.

And no, the conviction of a squad of soldiers does not prove anything of the sort. That US soldiers have reported war crimes committed by other US soldiers is however a proof that it is not war crimes across the board.


----------



## Viet

Paul2 said:


> You absolutely can never be sure that your enemy wouldn't use its biggest weapon first. That's the basics of tactics.
> 
> But also we know that Putin never had even a basic military education. KGB were intentionally trained to be dummies in military matters to deter them interfering, or trying to seize power back in USSR, or so I was told when we spoke about who is axing whom now in Kazakhstan with locals.
> 
> This is why all across ex-USSR, where the president was an ex-KGB, or used to rely on KGB, the military was reduced to nothing, and all influential generals were purged.


Putin is now the most dangerous man in the world. That’s a self tragedy for Russians. his daily diary contains things how he can make his subordinates to laughing stocks. Putin is not interested of economic thing either. He will make Russia a version of North Korea at the Volga. Siemens goes thru all crisis, world wars, civil war, revolutions, Cold War.
now the people of Siemens packs and leaves Russia forever, after 170y. Something went wrong.
The only explanation I have is he listens to much to chinese propaganda.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525403642077011968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525415830497927168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525416097398366208

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## A.P. Richelieu

BHAN85 said:


> I was asking how a Swede can want to join a organization like NATO who kill Afghan civilian as sport training for troops when he's screaming about Russia crimes in Ukraine.
> 
> Russia is protecting its security in Ukraine.
> NATO was protecting nothing in Afghanistan.
> 
> But kill Afghanistan brown civilian people is OK for people under the brainwashing of NATO.


Brown people in Afghanistan camps were planning to kill white people in the United States and Europe with the Afghan leaderships blessing.
Now brown people are whining about white people defending themselves.

Meanwhile no videos…
Also no documentation of Palestinians or Talibans charging their own with war crimes.

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## 925boy

SalarHaqq said:


> No source exists documenting 26000 Russian casualties.


also, the maps @LeGenD is posting are showing CONSIDERABLY less Russian controlled areas than Russian forces actually control on the ground today -that source seems biased IMO.

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## CAPRICORN-88

*German Industrialists are warning Chancellor Olaf Scholtz of an economic disaster ahead if he continue to stay on course with his present policy.*

This has immediately prompt Chancellor Olaf to pick up his phone and he spoke directly to Russian President Putin. 

Germany is sure missing Angela Merkel. 

These new greenhorns running Germany today are now trapped in one blunder after another. 
Nothing seems to be working for them.

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## jhungary

925boy said:


> also, the maps @LeGenD is posting are showing CONSIDERABLY less Russian controlled areas than Russian forces actually control on the ground today -that source seems biased IMO.


The maps are accurate.

Russia have not been able to cross the River Don, which is reflected in the ISW Map. On the other hand They were being pushed back in the South near Kherson (They took 2 district back from Kherson oblast since last week IIRC) so the map is more or less correct.

There are less because Russia loss control of some city. The last city they took (of significance) is Popasna, which is more than a week ago.


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## Viet

The German gov is very hesitant in delivery of heavy weapons to Ukraine now with 7 
Panzerhaubitzen is a good start.







Panzerhaubitzen der Bundeswehr: Sieben sollen an die Ukraine gehen - inklusive Ausbildung.Quelle: dpa


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## Elvin

Catching up on the news, is it true the Russians are withdrawing from Kharkiv?

Yes this is 2022 and yes this is Europe. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525468308404936704
^^ if these were arabs they would be shotting into the sky and randomly around them hoping bullets would hit something loll. You’d have one guy stand up scream and throw a grenade and probably shot. Some people aren’t for war and they don’t know how to “war.” It’s not for everybody lol.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Germany Girds for Day of Reckoning in Russian Gas Showdown​
Fallout of Russian ban would hit carmakers to chemical plants
Agency that would ration gas is stockpiling generator fuel

May 12, 2022 Bloomberg.

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## jhungary

Elvin said:


> Catching up on the news, is it true the Russians are withdrawing from Kharkiv?
> 
> Yes this is 2022 and yes this is Europe.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525468308404936704
> ^^ if these were arabs they would be shotting into the sky and randomly around them hoping bullets would hit something loll. You’d have one guy stand up scream and throw a grenade and probably shot. Some people aren’t for war and they don’t know how to “war.” It’s not for everybody lol.


Yeah, Kharkiv is now a mop up, they have bugged out like they did with Kyiv. The Russian withdraw back to defend the rail junction

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## Apollon

BHAN85 said:


> Russians are protecting their borders and you criticize them.
> 
> NATO was protecting nothing in the Afghanistan war and you want your country join them.
> 
> All wars have collateral civilian damage, but this war is neccesary for Russia security.
> 
> Afghanistan NATO war was not necessary for NATO security.
> 
> It was just a free crime, a way to train their troops and test weapons under the lie of 911 attacks. And you want your country join to such evil organization under the pretext of Russian evilness .



Afghanistan attacked USA in 2001. Afghanistan was offered to give Osama. Afghanistan failed to do so and paid the prize.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Apparently Olaf Scholtz in his phonr call to Putin tried to persuade Russia to continue with the Peace Talk with Ukraine.

But unfortunately Zalensky after agreeing to the T&C of the agreement suddenly withdraw all his concessions after receiving new instructions from UK Boris Johnson and the US State Secretary. 

Russian President Vladimir Putin and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz discussed Ukraine in a telephone call on Friday, the Kremlin said.

Putin told Scholz that progress in negotiations over an end to the conflict had been "*essentially blocked by Kyiv"*, according to the Kremlin, which said contacts between Russia and Germany would continue on various levels.


----------



## The SC

The US plan to fight Russia REVEALED in 2019 Report from the RAND Corporation​

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## Elvin

Wow losing Khrakiv is embarrassing considering the city speaks Russian and many are members of the Russian church thereby making them ethnic Russians.

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## SalarHaqq

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The claim was that there are multiple videos showing Israelis and Americans killing peaceful individuals.
> So far, noone has been able to prove that claim.



There are various videos of US troops firing at unarmed peaceful civilians. Here just two examples:






https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/19/us/politics/afghanistan-drone-strike-video.html

There is also video proof of Australian soldiers executing unarmed civilians at close range in Afghanistan.

Moreover there is plenty of non-audiovisual evidence that zionist and US troops massacred significant amounts of ordinary civilians. The nature of the proof isn't exactly relevant in this regard.

By contrast, there is no video proving that Russian forces committed such a crime during the ongoing conflict.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> And no, the conviction of a squad of soldiers does not prove anything of the sort.



It is one of many symptoms thereof.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> That US soldiers have reported war crimes committed by other US soldiers is however a proof that it is not war crimes across the board.



Not necessarily. Token US soldiers reporting crimes likely are the exception which confirms the rule.

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## Apollon

BHAN85 said:


> Russians are protecting their borders and you criticize them.
> 
> NATO was protecting nothing in the Afghanistan war and you want your country join them.
> 
> All wars have collateral civilian damage, but this war is neccesary for Russia security.
> 
> Afghanistan NATO war was not necessary for NATO security.
> 
> It was just a free crime, a way to train their troops and test weapons under the lie of 911 attacks. And you want your country join to such evil organization under the pretext of Russian evilness .



Tell me, how is russias security better now than in february?


Russias army gets obliterated. Its economy destroyed. Its defense industry is proven weak and its entire military shown as barbarian clown troop. At same time NATO is now stronger than ever. 


Was that Pussolini plan?


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## CAPRICORN-88

*This will surely add to the Food Shortage Crisis faced by the world because of the US and EU sanction on Russia over Ukraine. *

The Indian government generally buys wheat from Indian farmers from April to mid-May. Media reports suggest that this year so far, the government is expected to procure only 18.5 million tonnes of wheat from Indian farmers, the lowest amount in 15 years.

*The Indian government has banned wheat exports with immediate effect, according to an official notification issued by the Directorate General of Foreign Trade (DGFT) late Friday night.*

_"Export of all wheat, including high-protein durum and normal soft bread varieties, have been moved from free to the prohibited category with effect from 13 May (Friday)," the notification reads, citing "a sudden spike in the global prices of wheat arising out of many factors" as the primary reason for the restriction._

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## kingQamaR

mhosein said:


> Ukraine: Ukrainian soldiers are upset about the T-72M1 tanks that were given to Ukraine by Poland. Rightly so, the tanks are under-equipped for modern warfare and lack modern guidance and targeting systems.
> 
> As a matter of fact, the Ukrainians prefer their own, older T-64s that are 10:1 more likely to survive combat [Thanks the NATO armament program over the past 8 years!]. But why such a surprise? Poland told you their T-72M1 tanks lacked modern guidance and targeting systems and were under equipped before transferring them. Caveat emptor. Buyer beware.
> 
> View attachment 843886
> 
> 
> View attachment 843888
> 
> 
> 🇺🇦⚡Ukraine spent more than $8 billion on military operations against Russia
> 
> In an interview with Reuters, Ukrainian Finance Minister Serhiy Marchenko said that Ukraine has already spent UAH 245.1 billion (about $8.3 billion) on waging war with Russia.
> 
> According to Marchenko, funds pledged for development went to everything from the purchase and repair of weapons to emergency assistance to internally displaced persons. The government collected only 60% of the planned tax revenues for April, in May-June this figure may drop to the level of 45-50%.
> 
> “Kyiv needs foreign financial support as Ukraine is forced to send billions of dollars for emergency expenses. According to the Ministry of Finance, $5 billion a month is needed to finance the state budget,” the minister stressed.
> 
> View attachment 843891



Kiev wants polish PT-91 upgraded from the old T72 

Better in all areas , engine , armour and onboard computer suites.


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## Apollon

BHAN85 said:


> USA was defending its security in Afghanistan, How the hell is that even possible.
> 
> You wont make that question.



911 was planned by Bin Laden in Afghanistan. Afghanistan had become center of anti western terrorism

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## CAPRICORN-88

The SC said:


> The US plan to fight Russia REVEALED in 2019 Report from the RAND Corporation​


And the sudden election of Trump as President spoilt everything. Now with Biden, they continue with where Obama left off.

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## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *German Industrialists are warning Chancellor Olaf Scholtz of an economic disaster ahead if he continue to stay on course with his present policy.*
> 
> This has immediately prompt Chancellor Olaf to pick up his phone and he spoke directly to Russian President Putin.
> 
> Germany is sure missing Angela Merkel.
> 
> These new greenhorns running Germany today are now trapped in one blunder after another.
> Nothing seems to be working for them.



Nobody in Germany misses Merkel. Her time as chancellor were a desaster


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## SalarHaqq

Apollon said:


> 911 was planned by Bin Laden in Afghanistan. Afghanistan had become center of anti western terrorism



According to the US regime itself. Which hardly qualifies as "proof", considering that this regime specializes in lying to the public.

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## Apollon

SalarHaqq said:


> According to the US regime itself. Which hardly qualifies as "proof", considering that this regime specializes in lying to the public.



Mullah Omar said bin Laden is his guest. You claim now mullah Omar was part of ZS regime? A bold theory.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> The sea blockage imposed by Russian army hinders Ukraine to export 25 million ton grains. Which causes high food prices and potentially can inflict huge famine in developing countries.
> G7 trying to find a way to break Russia blockade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ZEIT ONLINE | Lesen Sie zeit.de mit Werbung oder im PUR-Abo. Sie haben die Wahl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.zeit.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annalena Baerbock beim G7-Außenministertreffen© Janine Schmitz/imago images


Nonsense they can export it the exact way they import weapons

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525433050926030850


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Apollon said:


> Nobody in Germany misses Merkel. Her time as chancellor were a desaster


And you are just a commoner in Greece who is so dependent on EU loans to survive thinks you understand what the Germans are thinking. 

  

The Greek who spend their time daydreaming about philosophy and impractical ideas like the *playful* *cricket in Summer* unlike the Germans who are more resourceful and down to earth folks. The German ants understands they need gas to survive the winter.

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## mulj

A.P. Richelieu said:


> When you are running out of arguments a bit of racism always helps.


I am "white" person myself.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

BHAN85 said:


> Russians are protecting their borders and you criticize them.
> 
> NATO was protecting nothing in the Afghanistan war and you want your country join them.
> 
> All wars have collateral civilian damage, but this war is neccesary for Russia security.
> 
> Afghanistan NATO war was not necessary for NATO security.
> 
> It was just a free crime, a way to train their troops and test weapons under the lie of 911 attacks. And you want your country join to such evil organization under the pretext of Russian evilness .


Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 and has been attacking ever since. It is not protecting borders. It is a War of Agression and as such illegal.
There is no room in International Law for invading another country to secure borders.
Russia has acknowledged 1997 that all sovereign countries have the right to join whatever alliance they care for.

Al-Qaeda with support from their Afghan allies attacked the United States in 2001. It is a War of Self-Defense.
NATO as allies to the United States have a legal right to support their ally in a war of self-defense.

Afghanistan refused to close down the Al-Qaeda camps in Afghanistan, which is required by laws of neutrality.
You simply are not aware or care about International Law.



mulj said:


> I am "white" person myself.


Then You are a white person incapable of producing a video that supports the claim or show that Palestinians or Taliban handle their own war crimes.


----------



## Apollon

SalarHaqq said:


> Did he also claim this Bin Laden person planned the terrorist attacks in question? I doubt it.



Bin Laden did claim that on video. 


I agree that this was not well planned. Unfortunately it was a time where bullshit humanists ruled the west. They should just have flattened city by city until Afghanistan executed bin Laden life on TV and be done with it.


Believe it or not, majority in West has zero interest in nation building projects in places like Afghanistan. I dont care what they do there as long its no danger for us.



Hack-Hook said:


> Nonsense they can export it the exact way they import weapons



Thats what is done now. Shipment through baltic harbours.


----------



## mulj

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 and has been attacking ever since. It is not protecting borders. It is a War of Agression and as such illegal.
> There is no room in International Law for invading another country to secure borders.
> Russia has acknowledged 1997 that all sovereign countries have the right to join whatever alliance they care for.
> 
> Al-Qaeda with support from their Afghan allies attacked the United States in 2001. It is a War of Self-Defense.
> NATO as allies to the United States have a legal right to support their
> 
> 
> Then You are a white person incapable of producing a video that supports the claim or show that Palestinians or Taliban handle their own war crimes.


Then you are idiot who needs videos to acknowledge that settlers in palestine and western coalition around the wider regions comitted war crimes on regular basys.
But to indukge your idiotic request check the drone attack when USA run away from Kabul airport in last days.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> They are, most likely MLRS, but as I point out before I left for Ukraine, once they signed the deal with BAe, there are always possibility for HIMARS and with US is backing the purchase, they will probably transfer a few HIMARS from the Marine and buy them from BAe themselves to replace it.
> 
> M270 tho, there are excessive storage when the Marine ditched them and going for HIMARS. Which mean we would have some store, don't know how many there are but it could well be into high double digit, while it is not likely the US will transfer all M270 to Ukraine, but a handful of Battery would be likely, maybe less than 20 (3 batteries)
> 
> 
> M109 Paladin have been talked of, i don't know if they will be transfer, US had around 1000 (A mix bag of A6 and A7) but I doubt if they transfer it to Ukraine will be of anything like you said. Maybe 90-100 like the M777, taking away 10% of US stock is a lot, we depends heavily on them as well.


Well whatever they can give them, it would help hit Kupiansk as well as well as Melitopol which I mentioned before, providing air support as well as bringing in supplies. Maybe even collaborate with Ukraine building their own truck type HIMARS system since they have Grads and Smerch so they know how to build them perhaps. Also good time for them to rebuild their war factories in safer areas like in Western and Middle of Ukraine and hidden well. I've seen videos of them building their own body armor and repairing capture Russian vehicles. Maybe they can still build their own helmets and small arms. I know they have that bullpup rifle. But in any case whatever number of body armor and helmets they need to equip the hundreds of thousands of Territorial troops and other units to make up the shortage by the West.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525000769979678720
Even 100 Paladins would help and should send in the older M198 howitzers to compensate for low number of Paladins. With hundreds of M198s, it could provide the artillery support from moon shape frontline from Kherson to Kharkiv. Not to mention provide M113 APCs with 120mm mortars, lots of mortars for long range. Also provide American type DJI drones, I heard China is helping the Russians tracking the usage of drones by the Ukrainians. Need to give Ukrainians the materials to build their own drones.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525485548588122118


----------



## Oldman1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525032212164497408
Looks like the LNR/DNR troops are being abandoned by Russia. Can't leave to go home in Donbas region, and can't be allowed to go deep in Russia so they are on the Russian/Ukrainian border. These are the troops that retreated from Kharkiv in case you curious.

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## A.P. Richelieu

SalarHaqq said:


> There are various videos of US troops firing at unarmed peaceful civilians. Here just two examples:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/19/us/politics/afghanistan-drone-strike-video.html
> 
> There is also video proof of Australian soldiers executing unarmed civilians at close range in Afghanistan.
> 
> Moreover there is plenty of non-audiovisual evidence that zionist and US troops massacred significant amounts of ordinary civilians. The nature of the proof isn't exactly relevant in this regard.
> 
> By contrast, there is no video proving that Russian forces committed such a crime during the ongoing conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> It is one of many symptoms thereof.
> 
> 
> 
> Not necessarily. Token US soldiers reporting crimes likely are the exception which confirms the rule.


The unedited video.





which shows that the guys were armed to the teeth.

A part of the unedited video.





another part of the unedited video.





As for the Afghanistan video, the Americans, after a suicide bombing at the Kabul airport, saw a lorry being loaded with what was suspected to be explosives, and attacked.
Typically such attacks are run through lawyers that determine an estimated military value.
Since a bomb this size would kill many hundreds of innocent civilians the estimated value was high.
It turned out that the ”explosives” were water containers.
To be a war crime, there must be intent.
Noone seriously believes that if the US Army got a call saying that civilians are loading water bottles in a pickup, the US would respond with a drone strike.

It does not appear to be beyond the Russians, considering how they bomb food stores.

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## Shakuni Mama

Apollon said:


> Believe it or not, majority in West has zero interest in nation building projects in places like Afghanistan. I dont care what they do there as long its no danger for us.



What contribution did Greece ever made to build a country ? Your country itself is bailed out by EU many times and here you are riding on high horse as you are the savior of humanity.

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## PakFactor

Ukraine Is in Worse Shape than You Think​Opinion by Suriya Jayanti - 5h ago

It has been said that, given how massively Ukrainian troops were believed be outmatched early in Russia’s invasion, not losing the war is itself a form of victory for Ukraine. The difference between expectations and the surprising resilience of Ukraine’s military makes it easy to misinterpret the current situation in Ukraine’s favor. But not winning is still not winning. Ukraine is in far worse shape than commonly believed and needs, and will continue to need, a staggering amount of aid and support to actually win.

We love an underdog. We love a plucky little guy who beats the odds. It fuels hope for our ordinary selves and allows us to feel we are on the morally superior side. This is why Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has appealed so successfully to the world. His defiance against the odds gave us someone to root for against a bully. While cheering on the scrappy, outmatched Ukrainians, we could also assuage some of our shame at leaving them—to whom we had made promises of protection, “security guarantees”—to die alone in the snow and the mud.

Unfortunately, Zelensky’s leadership and the outpouring of international military and humanitarian assistance it has elicited have not prevented a shocking level of destruction to Ukraine’s cities, economy, and society. The fact that Kyiv has not fallen and Russian troops have retreated to the east masks that Ukraine is in worse shape than portrayed in the media.

It is worth remembering that Ukraine has been fighting a Russian invasion since 2014. Between 2014 and February 2022, almost 10,000 were killed in the simmering war in the Donbas, but little or no military progress was made. Now, Ukraine is fighting with that same army in an expanded theater against a bigger opposing force. It is a testament to the pure valiance of its troops that Ukraine has managed since February 24 not only to hold its line but force the Russians into a retreat from Kyiv, Kharkiv, Chernigiv, and surrounding areas.

Nonetheless, Russia now controls significantly more Ukrainian territory than before February 24. Putin’s army holds Kherson, whatever is left of Mariupol, all the intervening territory, and now not only Luhansk and Donetsk but the entire Donbas Oblast. For example, whereas Ukrainian authorities controlled approximately 60% of Luhansk before the recent Russian invasion, now Russian forces control over 80% of the region. They also have about 70% of Zaporizhye region. Cumulatively, this accounts for an increase of Russian occupied territory from approximately 7%, including Crimea, before February more than double that now. Viewed this way, not losing looks a lot more like losing than winning.

Ukraine’s Ministry of Defense is not releasing combat casualty numbers to maintain morale, but experts believe it has lost at least 25,000 troops — up to 11,000 deaths and 18,000 wounded —since the February 24 invasion. Over two and a half months into the war, Ukraine’s losses are at least 10% of their now undoubtedly exhausted army of under 250,000. This is, however, many, many fewer than Russia’s casualties, believed to be over 35,000, and buttressed by an astonishing loss of weapons and equipment, such as tanks and warships.

Ukraine’s relative success is due in part to the weapons at least 31 western governments have been donating. The U.K. has sent anti-tank, anti-air, and anti-ship missiles, air defense systems, and other weapons; Slovakia the S-300 air defense system; the U.S. drones, howitzers, missiles, and anti-armor systems; and this is just a sampling. These weapons have allowed Ukraine to maximize its home field advantage, leverage its troops’ greater resolve, and exploit Russia’s military weaknesses and apparent lack of adequate planning and preparation. Without these donations, Kyiv may well have fallen by now.

While Ukraine is flush with weapons and other military supplies and equipment, however, Ministry of Defense officials and volunteer fighters are both quietly admitting that they lack the capacity to absorb so much aid. Much of the equipment and weaponry requires new training to be used. Even when that is available it takes time. Similarly, the influx of 16,000 or more foreign volunteer fighters would seem like a decisive boon, but in fact almost none of them had any military experience or training. They proved little more than extra mouths to feed in most cases, according to Ministry of Defense staff and some of the volunteer foreign special forces soldiers on the ground.

Economically, Ukraine is surviving, but only that. The sanctions on Russia that are expected to cause a less than 7% contraction in GDP compare rather unfavorably to the 45-50% GDP collapse Ukraine is facing. At least 25% of businesses are closed, although the number that have completely stopped has fallen from 32% in March to 17% in May. But a Black Sea blockade of Ukraine’s ports—Mariupol, Odesa, Kherson, and others—by Russia’s navy is preventing both the import of fuels to power the agricultural sector, and also the export of grain and other Ukrainian products. The inability to export is costing Ukraine’s economy $170 million per day. Meanwhile, Russia is targeting Ukrainian fuel storages, grain silos, and agricultural equipment warehouses, damaging already tattered supply chains. The power sector is facing default because so few Ukrainian citizens and companies are able to pay their electricity bills.

Not only is May a critical agricultural month, but it is when Naftogaz usually starts buying natural gas to store it for the cold Ukrainian winter. The state-owned energy giant was already in bad shape before the invasion, with the CEO asking the Ukrainian government for a $4.6 billion bailout in September 2021. Now, with very tight gas markets and no funds, it is unclear how the country can prepare for winter, when temperatures can fall to below 20 Fahrenheit. Adding to the prospect of a tragic 2022-2023 winter, most of Ukraine’s coal mines are in the Donbas, where Russia’s offensive continues.

The White House is reportedly considering forgiving Ukrainian sovereign debt, which would undoubtedly help Bankova (the Ukrainian White House equivalent). So too will, among other efforts, the €15 billion in debt securities the European Commission plans to issue to cover Ukraine’s next few months. However, this will not coax back the over six million mostly women and children who have fled Ukraine. If men were allowed to leave, the numbers would almost certainly be double.

Recent reports that 25,000-30,000 are returning daily to Ukraine from abroad are encouraging, but Ukraine faced a brain drain problem before the invasion. The poorest country in Europe, many citizens were already trying to leave. Before the war, Ukrainians were the third largest immigrant population in the E.U., behind only Morocco and Turkey. Now, the International Labor Agency estimates that 4.8 million jobs have been lost in Ukraine, which will rise to seven million if the war continues. And after many months of war, children will have settled in new schools abroad, mothers will be integrating in their new worlds, and both will be waiting for their husbands and fathers to join them. Some will return to Ukraine, of course, but many will prioritize their family’s comfort and children’s opportunities over the calls of patriotism.

Most troublingly, many Ukrainians still in their country have begun to wonder how it will rebuild itself. The war has torn the fabric of society. One mother in Poltava said she no longer trusts the neighbors she has lived next to for 40 years, people she considered to be family before the invasion. A young volunteer, formerly a civil society activist, described hunting for saboteurs, and how he has begun to see Russian sympathizers everywhere. Native Ukrainian speakers of Russian, who constitute at least a third of the population, are uncomfortable or even scared to use their mother tongue. Trust has been shattered, even while nationalism has been motivated. No matter how quickly Russia is beaten back, rebuilding communities will be a challenge.

The U.S. government decided in May to symbolically move some of its diplomatic staff back into Kyiv, partially reversing its rapid, defeatist withdrawal when it assumed Kyiv would fall within days. President Biden has even, finally, nominated a U.S. ambassador to Ukraine after more than a three-year leadership gap. The message this and E.U. gestures send is important. But despite our desire to see in outmatched Ukraine’s survival a tale of David beating Goliath, and to cheer ourselves for donating the slingshot, the country is seriously, dangerously weakened.

Ukraine needs more than symbols, and more than weapons. Not losing is not winning, and it will take a long and deep commitment by the western world to help Ukraine both win and then heal.





__





Ukraine Is in Worse Shape than You Think






www.msn.com





-----

I thought it was a good read and gives a picture of some long-term issues. Another long-term issue I see would be man-power not equipment, 

@RescueRanger @Wood

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## SalarHaqq

Apollon said:


> Bin Laden did claim that on video.



A grainy low-resolution video, and it's pretty much child's play for NATO intelligence agencies to stage a meeting with the participation of some Bin Laden doppelganger. Also in that video, the person alleged to be Bin Laden seems to be suggesting they had prior knowledge of the attacks, and that they conducted calculations about the death toll based on this knowledge. But their statements don't go further than that, in other words no confession of having masterminded these attacks.

In parallel, there are several statements attributed to Bin Laden in which he explicitly denies having played any role.

At any rate, none of it precludes the likes of the alleged 9-11 terrorists from having been manipulated by the US deep state. Western regimes have a well documented, extensive history of orchestrating false flags.

We also have statements like the following from US regime officials (in this case Donald Rumsfeld not long before the execution of the September 11, 2001 attacks):

"*Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor*."



Apollon said:


> I agree that this was not well planned.



Mighty US fell victim to not so well planned terrorist attacks?



Apollon said:


> Unfortunately it was a time where bullshit humanists ruled the west. They should just have flattened city by city until Afghanistan executed bin Laden life on TV and be done with it.
> 
> Believe it or not, majority in West has zero interest in nation building projects in places like Afghanistan. I dont care what they do there as long its no danger for us.



What the majority of their subjects think means nothing to the ruling oligarchy of western regimes, however to said oligarchy it was never about toppling dictators, nation-building, democracy or human rights indeed.

It was and is simply about destabilizing and balkanizing multiple nation-states along the so-called "arc of instability" (destabilized by NATO and the zionists, that is), as they expose in their own policy papers and other publications.

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## sammuel

SalarHaqq said:


> Not the other points mentioned though



lol


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## A.P. Richelieu

mulj said:


> Then you are idiot who needs videos to acknowledge that settlers in palestine and western coalition around the wider regions comitted war crimes on regular basys.
> But to indukge your idiotic request check the drone attack when USA run away from Kabul airport in last days.


Are you aware that to be a war crime, you have to intentionally attack a target which *you know* has zero military value.

I specifically asked for videos of people not engaging in activity which could be suspicious.
The drone attack was on people suspected of preparing an attack on innocent civilians.

Such attacks are legal because of the many war crimes committed by the Talibans where they make attacks while dressed as civilians.

How many Talibans have been convicted by the Talibans for their war crimes?

So far, one propaganda video which turned out to be fake has been shown. Then a legal attack, albeit a mistake has been mentioned.
It appear that there are not an abundance of videos around.


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## SalarHaqq

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The unedited video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> which shows that the guys were armed to the teeth.
> 
> A part of the unedited video.
> View attachment 843953
> 
> 
> another part of the unedited video.
> View attachment 843952



Not really.

In the recording, the helicopter crews can be heard discussing the scene on the street below. One American claims to have spotted six people with AK-47s and one with a rocket-propelled grenade. It is unclear if some of the men are armed but Noor-Eldeen can be seen with a camera. Chmagh is talking on his mobile phone.

One of the helicopter crew is then heard saying that one of the group is shooting. But the video shows there is no shooting or even pointing of weapons. The men are standing around, apparently unperturbed. 

The lead helicopter, using the moniker Crazyhorse, opens fire. "Hahaha. I hit 'em," shouts one of the American crew. Another responds a little later: "Oh yeah, look at those dead bastards."

One of the men on the ground, believed to be Chmagh, is seen wounded and trying to crawl to safety. One of the helicopter crew is heard wishing for the man to reach for a gun, even though there is none visible nearby, so he has the pretext for opening fire: "All you gotta do is pick up a weapon." A van draws up next to the wounded man and Iraqis climb out. They are unarmed and start to carry the victim to the vehicle in what would appear to be an attempt to get him to hospital. One of the helicopters opens fire with armour-piercing shells. "Look at that. Right through the windshield," says one of the crew. Another responds with a laugh.









Wikileaks reveals video showing US air crew shooting down Iraqi civilians


Footage of July 2007 attack made public as Pentagon identifies website as threat to national security




www.theguardian.com





Cannot see proof of actual weapons being carried by the men in those blurry images.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> As for the Afghanistan video, the Americans, after a suicide bombing at the Kabul airport, saw a lorry being loaded with what was suspected to be explosives, and attacked.
> Typically such attacks are run through lawyers that determine an estimated military value.
> Since a bomb this size would kill many hundreds of innocent civilians the estimated value was high.
> It turned out that the ”explosives” were water containers.
> To be a war crime, there must be intent.
> Noone seriously believes that if the US Army got a call saying that civilians are loading water bottles in a pickup, the US would respond with a drone strike.



In other terms, there do exist videos that show US forces bombing peaceful unarmed civilians. Thanks for the admission.

Moreover the above quoted justification represents an official US regime statement. They were never independently verified. However considering the the US regime's affinity with lying, such corroboration is absolutely required to lend even a semblance of credibility to claims coming out of Washington.

Of course that's besides tons of other types of evidence for war crimes committed by NATO gunmen.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> It does not appear to be beyond the Russians, considering how they bomb food stores.



That's nothing compared to the US regime, which officially considers starving to death half a million children (as in Iraq) an acceptable practice.

And the question remains: where are the supposed videos documenting the killing of peaceful Ukrainian civilians by Russian forces?

Another point of note, my mentioning of the footage in which Australian occupiers can be seen executing unarmed Afghan civilians was ignored.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525511015907172353


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

US, Swiss Defense Officials Discuss Sale Of F-35 Jets, Patriot Systems - Pentagon​Sputnik - 13th May, 2022) US Deputy Secretary of Defense Kathleen Hicks met with Swiss Minister of Defense Viola Amherd and discussed the sale of 36 F-35A aircraft and five Patriot missile systems to Switzerland, Pentagon spokesperson Eric Pahon said on Friday.














US, Swiss Defense Officials Discuss Sale Of F-35 Jets, Patriot Systems - Pentagon - UrduPoint


US Deputy Secretary of Defense Kathleen Hicks met with Swiss Minister of Defense Viola Amherd and discussed the sale of 36 F-35A aircraft and five Patriot missile systems to Switzerland, Pentagon spokesperson Eric Pahon said on Friday




www.urdupoint.com

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## mulj

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Are you aware that to be a war crime, you have to intentionally attack a target which *you know* has zero military value.
> 
> I specifically asked for videos of people not engaging in activity which could be suspicious.
> The drone attack was on people suspected of preparing an attack on innocent civilians.
> 
> Such attacks are legal because of the many war crimes committed by the Talibans where they make attacks while dressed as civilians.
> 
> How many Talibans have been convicted by the Talibans for their war crimes?
> 
> So far, one propaganda video which turned out to be fake has been shown. Then a legal attack, albeit a mistake has been mentioned.
> It appear that there are not an abundance of videos around.




.
Well you can spin it like yoyo ball it does not change fact that crimes are commited, such whataboutery concerning taliban crimes does not change it.



Onky thing which is busted here is you with your cheap advocasy and washing various crimes of western mikitary forces with ridicoulus requirments and when even that is indulged you twist it in whataboutism

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## A.P. Richelieu

SalarHaqq said:


> Not really.
> 
> In the recording, the helicopter crews can be heard discussing the scene on the street below. One American claims to have spotted six people with AK-47s and one with a rocket-propelled grenade. It is unclear if some of the men are armed but Noor-Eldeen can be seen with a camera. Chmagh is talking on his mobile phone.
> 
> One of the helicopter crew is then heard saying that one of the group is shooting. But the video shows there is no shooting or even pointing of weapons. The men are standing around, apparently unperturbed.
> 
> The lead helicopter, using the moniker Crazyhorse, opens fire. "Hahaha. I hit 'em," shouts one of the American crew. Another responds a little later: "Oh yeah, look at those dead bastards."
> 
> One of the men on the ground, believed to be Chmagh, is seen wounded and trying to crawl to safety. One of the helicopter crew is heard wishing for the man to reach for a gun, even though there is none visible nearby, so he has the pretext for opening fire: "All you gotta do is pick up a weapon." A van draws up next to the wounded man and Iraqis climb out. They are unarmed and start to carry the victim to the vehicle in what would appear to be an attempt to get him to hospital. One of the helicopters opens fire with armour-piercing shells. "Look at that. Right through the windshield," says one of the crew. Another responds with a laugh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wikileaks reveals video showing US air crew shooting down Iraqi civilians
> 
> 
> Footage of July 2007 attack made public as Pentagon identifies website as threat to national security
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cannot see proof of actual weapons being carried by the men in those blurry images.
> 
> 
> 
> In other terms, there do exist videos that show US forces bombing peaceful unarmed civilians. Thanks for the admission.
> 
> Of course that's besides tons of other types of evidence for war crimes committed by NATO gunmen.
> 
> 
> 
> That's nothing compared to the US regime, which considers starving to death half a million children (as in Iraq) an acceptable practice.
> 
> And the question remains: where are the videos supposedly documenting the killing of peaceful Ukrainian civilians by Russian forces?
> 
> Another point of note, my mentioning of the video that shows Australian occupiers executing unarmed Afghan civilians was ignored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 843966


The video show that they are armed.
That makes them a military target.

The presence of civilians in a military target does not protect the military target from attack.

There is no war crime called ”killing innocent civilians”.
Civilians die, when combatants jeopardize them.
That is why the Talibans and Al-Qaeda have significant responsibility for the civilian deaths in Afghanistan.



mulj said:


> .
> Well you can spin it like yoyo ball it does not change fact that crimes are commited, such whataboutery concerning taliban crimes does not change it.
> 
> 
> 
> Onky thing which is busted here is you with your cheap advocasy and washing various crimes of western mikitary forces with ridicoulus requirments and when even that is indulged you twist it in whataboutism


Crimes according to you, but not according to Laws of Warfare.

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## SalarHaqq

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The video show that they are armed.
> That makes them a military target.



Cannot see it. Nor could the Guardian journalists. I very much doubt me and them are collectively suffering from ophthalmological dysfunctions.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> The presence of civilians in a military target does not protect the military target from attack.



It is protected against disproportionate use of force.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> There is no war crime called ”killing innocent civilians”.



I didn't employ this terminology.

However it seems you spoke of killing innocent civilians:








A.P. Richelieu said:


> Civilians die, when combatants jeopardize them.



Or when trigger happy war criminals target them in cold blood.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> That is why the Talibans and Al-Qaeda have significant responsibility for the civilian deaths in Afghanistan.



I haven't seen evidence of Taleban (who mostly fought in the countryside and mountains) putting too many civilians at risk during combat situations.

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## thetutle

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> OK I am not complaining. Go and play your games or fight your war in Ukraine.
> 
> But kindly enter into the battle scenes physically and not thru' proxies.


Why? what would be the purpose of that?


----------



## gambit

jhungary said:


> Yeah, Kharkiv is now a mop up, they have bugged out like they did with Kyiv. The Russian withdraw back to defend the rail junction


Back in WW II, JPN said its army conducted 'strategic withdrawals'. Here, the Russian Army is doing the same with the addition that the withdrawal is out of humanitarian concerns. So if Russia ultimately lose or stalemated it was because the Russian Army was too humane.

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> Nonsense they can export it the exact way they import weapons


No, it’s different routes.
The weapons come via lands.
Ukraine exports grains mostly via seas.
The EU now trying to get 25 million grains out via land routes.


----------



## Clutch

A.P. Richelieu said:


> I dare you to produce a single video of a peaceful individual killed like this.
> 
> I am pretty sure you will produce videos of people killed after they or others in the vicinity has engaged in combat or otherwise acted in a threatening way.


----------



## Viet

It’s official over.
Ukraine won the battle of Charkiw.
The second victory.
After the battle of Kiew.





Ein ukrainischer Soldat inspiziert ein russisches Fahrzeug nahe Mala Rogan, östlich von Charkiw.© Sergey Bobok/AFP/Getty Images






ZEIT ONLINE | Lesen Sie zeit.de mit Werbung oder im PUR-Abo. Sie haben die Wahl.







www.zeit.de


----------



## Oldman1

SalarHaqq said:


> A grainy low-resolution video, and it's pretty much child's play for NATO intelligence agencies to stage a conversation involving some Bin Laden doppelganger. Also in that video, the person alleged to be Bin Laden seems to be suggesting they had prior knowledge of the attacks, and that they conducted calculations about the death toll based on this knowledge. But their statements don't go further than that, in other words no confession of having masterminded these attacks.









SalarHaqq said:


> Not really.
> 
> In the recording, the helicopter crews can be heard discussing the scene on the street below. One American claims to have spotted six people with AK-47s and one with a rocket-propelled grenade. It is unclear if some of the men are armed but Noor-Eldeen can be seen with a camera. Chmagh is talking on his mobile phone.
> 
> One of the helicopter crew is then heard saying that one of the group is shooting. But the video shows there is no shooting or even pointing of weapons. The men are standing around, apparently unperturbed.
> 
> The lead helicopter, using the moniker Crazyhorse, opens fire. "Hahaha. I hit 'em," shouts one of the American crew. Another responds a little later: "Oh yeah, look at those dead bastards."
> 
> One of the men on the ground, believed to be Chmagh, is seen wounded and trying to crawl to safety. One of the helicopter crew is heard wishing for the man to reach for a gun, even though there is none visible nearby, so he has the pretext for opening fire: "All you gotta do is pick up a weapon." A van draws up next to the wounded man and Iraqis climb out. They are unarmed and start to carry the victim to the vehicle in what would appear to be an attempt to get him to hospital. One of the helicopters opens fire with armour-piercing shells. "Look at that. Right through the windshield," says one of the crew. Another responds with a laugh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wikileaks reveals video showing US air crew shooting down Iraqi civilians
> 
> 
> Footage of July 2007 attack made public as Pentagon identifies website as threat to national security
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cannot see proof of actual weapons being carried by the men in those blurry images.
> 
> 
> 
> I



Go to time index 3:42 where a guy is carrying an RPG when he turns. If you can't see that, you are either blind or ignorant.

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## SalarHaqq

Oldman1 said:


>



Where is he claiming to have masterminded the attacks of September 11, 2001?



Oldman1 said:


> Go to time index 3:42 where a guy is carrying an RPG when he turns. If you can't see that, you are either blind or ignorant.



I'm blind or ignorant, professional journalists from some of the west's most famed mainstream media are blind or ignorant, of course.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Well whatever they can give them, it would help hit Kupiansk as well as well as Melitopol which I mentioned before, providing air support as well as bringing in supplies. Maybe even collaborate with Ukraine building their own truck type HIMARS system since they have Grads and Smerch so they know how to build them perhaps. Also good time for them to rebuild their war factories in safer areas like in Western and Middle of Ukraine and hidden well. I've seen videos of them building their own body armor and repairing capture Russian vehicles. Maybe they can still build their own helmets and small arms. I know they have that bullpup rifle. But in any case whatever number of body armor and helmets they need to equip the hundreds of thousands of Territorial troops and other units to make up the shortage by the West.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525000769979678720
> Even 100 Paladins would help and should send in the older M198 howitzers to compensate for low number of Paladins. With hundreds of M198s, it could provide the artillery support from moon shape frontline from Kherson to Kharkiv. Not to mention provide M113 APCs with 120mm mortars, lots of mortars for long range. Also provide American type DJI drones, I heard China is helping the Russians tracking the usage of drones by the Ukrainians. Need to give Ukrainians the materials to build their own drones.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525485548588122118



Anything would help Kupiansk, but have to admit, this is not going to be an easy fight, chances are high, given if there are no change on Russia side (ie, they are not stacking up another 100 BTG somewhere to counter attack) but no intel suggest so at least at this moment. 

The problem for the Russian is that they are stopped at the Don River, the previous attempt trying to cross that did not end very well for the Russian, which mean they are going to be stuck there until they are managed to cross. Which is going to be in the next few day, on the other hand, the same time frame we would have seen the Ukrainian having a go at Kupiansk. So I think the entire war in Donbas would anchor on who made their objective first. Mind you, even if Russian manage to cross, they will still need to link up with the force in the East and South to be able to do something, while Ukrainian, even if they failed to take Kupiansk, they can still place artillery in range to hamper the logistic effort. 

As for whether or not the West will help Ukraine making their own truck base MLRS. I think that is not really possible at this point, maybe some time after they restart their industry base and move everything closer to Poland, yes, but at this point, this is going to be overshadow by the need of those equipment online as soon as possible, and nothing quicker than just send them direct from Western Stock.

100 Paladin would of course help, but this is not going to be enough, have done a battlefield assessment when I was overthere, seeing what I have seen, I would say they need 2500-3000 artillery piece, now even if we discount the one they lost in battle is less than 1500. they need a lot more to push the Russian back. On the other hand, diverted too much on their combat platform would create logistic and maintenance issue (They are using 2S9, 2S19, 2S22 (the new 155 SPG), PzH2000, Caesar, BM-21, BM-30, RM-70, M270 MLRS) that is going to create an hassle so the more different platform are probably not the solution in long term, in the long term, they are going to need to consolidate it into some formation of equipment, which mean they are probably going to stick with one supplier, and that would mean they should have their own stuff with western help, but that is probably after this war ended.

M198 are good and in good number, but they are hard to transfer and set up, I think US can give enough M198 to Ukraine to make a different but they aren't as easy to transport as M777, which is the reason why they send M777 first. It will take months to take deliver of M198.

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## thetutle

Viet said:


> Russia conversational army is weakened there is little to no risk. However what happens if Putin suffers defeat, runs amok and uses nukes?


there will then be no russia, it will only be a rumour.


----------



## Apollon

Shakuni Mama said:


> What contribution did Greece ever made to build a country ? Your country itself is bailed out by EU many times and here you are riding on high horse as you are the savior of humanity.



Greece build Europe. 🙂👍


Greece destroyed Persia and protected Europe from barbarian hordes.


----------



## gambit

SalarHaqq said:


> Where is he claiming to have masterminded the attacks of September 11, 2001?


Osama bin Laden does not need to be the operational commander of a specific event. This particular issue have been debated before and that argument have been found weak.



SalarHaqq said:


> I'm blind or ignorant, professional journalists from some of the west's most famed mainstream media are blind or ignorant, of course.


You have less than one second to determine if this is a combatant or non-combatant.







Not only that. You are stressed, your vision is diminished, and you are under attack.

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> Back in WW II, JPN said its army conducted 'strategic withdrawals'. Here, the Russian Army is doing the same with the addition that the withdrawal is out of humanitarian concerns. So if Russia ultimately lose or stalemated it was because the Russian Army was too humane.


Nah, Russian is not withdrawing. Russian is in a rout.

Withdrawing is when you trade space with time, you trade you location, defend it with rear guard action and try to stall as long as possible so you can pull more troop out. Ukrainian withdrawn from East of Don is an withdrawal, they traded space with time, they stall the area around Popasna, Rubizhne, Kremlinina. 

This is not the same as they just abandoning their position and flood back into Russian border....

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## SalarHaqq

gambit said:


> Osama bin Laden does not need to be the operational commander of a specific event. This particular issue have been debated before and that argument have been found weak.



Subjective opinion.



gambit said:


> You have less than one second to determine if this is a combatant or non-combatant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not only that. You are stressed, your vision is diminished, and you are under attack.



They had more than a second, weren't under attack and judging from their laughs and calm tone, they weren't much stressed.

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## gambit

SalarHaqq said:


> Subjective opinion.


And plenty agreed.



SalarHaqq said:


> They had more than a second, weren't under attack and judging from their laughs and relaxed tone, they weren't stressed.


That is not the point, which is that in combat, generally, it is difficult to discern combatants from non-combatants. That is why the Geneva Convention have requirements for both. Technically, the terms are 'combatants' and 'non-combatants'. Civilians can be combatants. Each case of suspected war crime must be investigated under certain established procedures, not by ad-hoc videos.


----------



## Oldman1

SalarHaqq said:


> Where is he claiming to have masterminded the attacks of September 11, 2001?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm blind or ignorant, professional journalists from some of the west's most famed mainstream media are blind or ignorant, of course.


LOL!








Full transcript of bin Ladin’s speech


Following is the full English transcript of Usama bin Ladin’s speech in a videotape sent to Aljazeera. In the interests of authenticity, the content of the transcript, which appeared as subtitles at the foot of the screen, has been left unedited.




www.aljazeera.com





*"Before I begin, I say to you that security is an indispensable pillar of human life and that free men do not forfeit their security, contrary to Bush’s claim that we hate freedom.

If so, then let him explain to us why we don’t strike for example – Sweden? And we know that freedom-haters don’t possess defiant spirits like those of the 19 – may Allah have mercy on them.

No, we fight because we are free men who don’t sleep under oppression. We want to restore freedom to our nation, just as you lay waste to our nation. So shall we lay waste to yours.

No one except a dumb thief plays with the security of others and then makes himself believe he will be secure. Whereas thinking people, when disaster strikes, make it their priority to look for its causes, in order to prevent it happening again.

But I am amazed at you. Even though we are in the fourth year after the events of September 11th, Bush is still engaged in distortion, deception and hiding from you the real causes. And thus, the reasons are still there for a repeat of what occurred.

So I shall talk to you about the story behind those events and shall tell you truthfully about the moments in which the decision was taken, for you to consider.

I say to you, Allah knows that it had never occurred to us to strike the towers. But after it became unbearable and we witnessed the oppression and tyranny of the American/Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind.

The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that. This bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorised and displaced."

"And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children.

And that day, it was confirmed to me that oppression and the intentional killing of innocent women and children is a deliberate American policy. Destruction is freedom and democracy, while resistance is terrorism and intolerance.

This means the oppressing and embargoing to death of millions as Bush Sr did in Iraq in the greatest mass slaughter of children mankind has ever known, and it means the throwing of millions of pounds of bombs and explosives at millions of children – also in Iraq – as Bush Jr did, in order to remove an old agent and replace him with a new puppet to assist in the pilfering of Iraq’s oil and other outrages.

So with these images and their like as their background, the events of September 11th came as a reply to those great wrongs, should a man be blamed for defending his sanctuary?

Is defending oneself and punishing the aggressor in kind, objectionable terrorism? If it is such, then it is unavoidable for us.

This is the message which I sought to communicate to you in word and deed, repeatedly, for years before September 11th.

And you can read this, if you wish, in my interview with Scott in Time Magazine in 1996, or with Peter Arnett on CNN in 1997, or my meeting with John Weiner in 1998.



You can observe it practically, if you wish, in Kenya and Tanzania and in Aden. And you can read it in my interview with Abdul Bari Atwan, as well as my interviews with Robert Fisk.

The latter is one of your compatriots and co-religionists and I consider him to be neutral. So are the pretenders of freedom at the White House and the channels controlled by them able to run an interview with him? So that he may relay to the American people what he has understood from us to be the reasons for our fight against you?"*

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## SalarHaqq

gambit said:


> And plenty agreed.



Plenty don't buy into the official narrative about the 9-11 attacks.



gambit said:


> That is not the point, which is that in combat, generally, it is difficult to discern combatants from non-combatants. That is why the Geneva Convention have requirements for both. Technically, the terms are 'combatants' and 'non-combatants'. Civilians can be combatants. Each case of suspected war crime must be investigated under certain established procedures, not by ad-hoc videos.



Tell that the user who challenged us to present a video of US forces firing at peaceful civilians. This said, videos can indeed document war crimes.

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## RescueRanger

Ah yes this thread - 😂also @PakFactor thank you for tagging me in your recent post. Interesting read.

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## thetutle

A.P. Richelieu said:


> I dare you to produce a single video of a peaceful individual killed like this.
> 
> I am pretty sure you will produce videos of people killed after they or others in the vicinity has engaged in combat or otherwise acted in a threatening way.


come on, almost every video of Palestine is a snuff film where Israelis murder Palestinian civilians for sport. we have all seen this. 

This is irrelevant to Ukraine. there are other threads for this.

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## SalarHaqq

Oldman1 said:


> LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Full transcript of bin Ladin’s speech
> 
> 
> Following is the full English transcript of Usama bin Ladin’s speech in a videotape sent to Aljazeera. In the interests of authenticity, the content of the transcript, which appeared as subtitles at the foot of the screen, has been left unedited.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"Before I begin, I say to you that security is an indispensable pillar of human life and that free men do not forfeit their security, contrary to Bush’s claim that we hate freedom.
> 
> If so, then let him explain to us why we don’t strike for example – Sweden? And we know that freedom-haters don’t possess defiant spirits like those of the 19 – may Allah have mercy on them.
> 
> No, we fight because we are free men who don’t sleep under oppression. We want to restore freedom to our nation, just as you lay waste to our nation. So shall we lay waste to yours.
> 
> No one except a dumb thief plays with the security of others and then makes himself believe he will be secure. Whereas thinking people, when disaster strikes, make it their priority to look for its causes, in order to prevent it happening again.
> 
> But I am amazed at you. Even though we are in the fourth year after the events of September 11th, Bush is still engaged in distortion, deception and hiding from you the real causes. And thus, the reasons are still there for a repeat of what occurred.
> 
> So I shall talk to you about the story behind those events and shall tell you truthfully about the moments in which the decision was taken, for you to consider.
> 
> I say to you, Allah knows that it had never occurred to us to strike the towers. But after it became unbearable and we witnessed the oppression and tyranny of the American/Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind.
> 
> The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that. This bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorised and displaced."
> 
> "And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children.
> 
> And that day, it was confirmed to me that oppression and the intentional killing of innocent women and children is a deliberate American policy. Destruction is freedom and democracy, while resistance is terrorism and intolerance.
> 
> This means the oppressing and embargoing to death of millions as Bush Sr did in Iraq in the greatest mass slaughter of children mankind has ever known, and it means the throwing of millions of pounds of bombs and explosives at millions of children – also in Iraq – as Bush Jr did, in order to remove an old agent and replace him with a new puppet to assist in the pilfering of Iraq’s oil and other outrages.
> 
> So with these images and their like as their background, the events of September 11th came as a reply to those great wrongs, should a man be blamed for defending his sanctuary?
> 
> Is defending oneself and punishing the aggressor in kind, objectionable terrorism? If it is such, then it is unavoidable for us.
> 
> This is the message which I sought to communicate to you in word and deed, repeatedly, for years before September 11th.
> 
> And you can read this, if you wish, in my interview with Scott in Time Magazine in 1996, or with Peter Arnett on CNN in 1997, or my meeting with John Weiner in 1998.
> 
> 
> 
> You can observe it practically, if you wish, in Kenya and Tanzania and in Aden. And you can read it in my interview with Abdul Bari Atwan, as well as my interviews with Robert Fisk.
> 
> The latter is one of your compatriots and co-religionists and I consider him to be neutral. So are the pretenders of freedom at the White House and the channels controlled by them able to run an interview with him? So that he may relay to the American people what he has understood from us to be the reasons for our fight against you?"*



Can't discern any confession of having planned let alone masterminded the event in there.

He's basically saying he considers the attacks to have been "inevitable" (and giving reasons for why he thinks so). And claiming that "they" cannot but "punish the aggressors in kind" - potentially referring to any more or less defined group he considers himself to be part of (Muslims in general, Al-Qaeda, fighters ideologically aligned with him who may or may not have links to his organization etc).

All of which is too vague and polysemous to be considered as a proper admission.

Plus as said, none of this implies that people like him weren't being manipulated by higher ups in western intelligence services.

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## gambit

SalarHaqq said:


> Plenty don't buy into the official narrative on the 9-11 attacks.


So stale it could be used for salad croutons.



SalarHaqq said:


> Tell that to the user who challenged to present a video of US forces firing at peaceful civilians. This said, videos can indeed document war crimes.


Someone made this a long time ago...






...It was meant as a joke, but the intention was clear, that in combat, it is not easy to distinguish out combatants and non-combatants. Am USAF, F-111 Cold War, then F-16 Desert Storm. When I got orders to deploy to Desert Storm, we had an hour long briefing on the 'high possibility' that the Iraqi Army *WILL* use human shields, or change uniforms, or even discard their uniforms and embeds among Kuwaiti civilians. And that if in support of allied ground forces we received orders to attack certain targets under their guidance, we had to trust their judgement that they have done their due investigation, as best they can, under the worst of combat conditions. But one thing that stuck out among the air force people, that it was so automatic to presume that the Iraqi Army would have this tactic in their doctrine.


----------



## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Anything would help Kupiansk, but have to admit, this is not going to be an easy fight, chances are high, given if there are no change on Russia side (ie, they are not stacking up another 100 BTG somewhere to counter attack) but no intel suggest so at least at this moment.




Russians retreating from Kharkiv is very telling, they didn't have enough men to reinforce or those troops were not motivated to stay. Read the Russians are going to use troops from Syria to make up the losses.


jhungary said:


> The problem for the Russian is that they are stopped at the Don River, the previous attempt trying to cross that did not end very well for the Russian, which mean they are going to be stuck there until they are managed to cross. Which is going to be in the next few day, on the other hand, the same time frame we would have seen the Ukrainian having a go at Kupiansk. So I think the entire war in Donbas would anchor on who made their objective first. Mind you, even if Russian manage to cross, they will still need to link up with the force in the East and South to be able to do something, while Ukrainian, even if they failed to take Kupiansk, they can still place artillery in range to hamper the logistic effort.



Yep, Kupiansk and Melitopol are the primary targets in the eastern and southern fronts.


jhungary said:


> As for whether or not the West will help Ukraine making their own truck base MLRS. I think that is not really possible at this point, maybe some time after they restart their industry base and move everything closer to Poland, yes, but at this point, this is going to be overshadow by the need of those equipment online as soon as possible, and nothing quicker than just send them direct from Western Stock.
> 
> 100 Paladin would of course help, but this is not going to be enough, have done a battlefield assessment when I was overthere, seeing what I have seen, I would say they need 2500-3000 artillery piece, now even if we discount the one they lost in battle is less than 1500. they need a lot more to push the Russian back. On the other hand, diverted too much on their combat platform would create logistic and maintenance issue (They are using 2S9, 2S19, 2S22 (the new 155 SPG), PzH2000, Caesar, BM-21, BM-30, RM-70, M270 MLRS) that is going to create an hassle so the more different platform are probably not the solution in long term, in the long term, they are going to need to consolidate it into some formation of equipment, which mean they are probably going to stick with one supplier, and that would mean they should have their own stuff with western help, but that is probably after this war ended.
> 
> M198 are good and in good number, but they are hard to transfer and set up, I think US can give enough M198 to Ukraine to make a different but they aren't as easy to transport as M777, which is the reason why they send M777 first. It will take months to take deliver of M198.


Still don't know how long this war will last, so better to get a look at those M198s and put them on a ship now and deliver them across the ocean while training the crews for it. By that time, they be ready. Can't have that mentality on the Ukrainians that it would take too long for them to learn it.


----------



## PakFactor

RescueRanger said:


> Ah yes this thread - 😂also @PakFactor thank you for tagging me in your recent post. Interesting read.



Welcome bhai.

The truth is always in between. However, for “the rest” they need to walk there own path with a stick to inflict damage for the wrongs done. I’m a political realist and a Pakistani Nationalist, I want Pakistanis to learn how to manipulate worldly events to protect the homeland even if it means others elsewhere will die, human emotions can’t dictate national security. As you can see why I’m not effected by this conflict, but we must learn from it deeply.

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## thetutle

sammuel said:


> On 20 June 1982, Saddam announced that he wanted to sue for peace and proposed an immediate ceasefire and withdrawal from Iranian territory within two weeks.[152] Khomeini responded by saying the war would not end until a new government was installed in Iraq and reparations paid.[153] He proclaimed that Iran would invade Iraq and would not stop until the Ba'ath regime was replaced by an Islamic republic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran–Iraq War - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


he was right in the end. almost. Its technically still not an islamic republic. They had to get rid of the maniac.


----------



## RescueRanger

PakFactor said:


> Welcome bhai.
> The truth is always in between. However, for “the rest” they need to walk there own path with a stick to inflict damage for the wrongs done. I’m a political realist and a Pakistani Nationalist, I want Pakistanis to learn and how to manipulate worldly events to protect the homeland even if it means others elsewhere will die.


Well said brother - I’ve always maintained Pakistan doesn’t have a dog in this fight - we have our own problems. 😊

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## SalarHaqq

gambit said:


> So stale it could be used for salad croutons.



Indeed, anyone familiar with the extensive record of false flag operations by western regimes will concur that there's something boringly repetitive about the 9-11 attacks.



gambit said:


> Someone made this a long time ago...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...It was meant as a joke, but the intention was clear, that in combat, it is not easy to distinguish out combatants and non-combatants. Am USAF, F-111 Cold War, then F-16 Desert Storm. When I got orders to deploy to Desert Storm, we had an hour long briefing on the 'high possibility' that the Iraqi Army *WILL* use human shields, or change uniforms, or even discard their uniforms and embeds among Kuwaiti civilians. And that if in support of allied ground forces we received orders to attack certain targets under their guidance, we had to trust their judgement that they have done their due investigation, as best they can, under the worst of combat conditions. But one thing that stuck out among the air force people, that it was so automatic to presume that the Iraqi Army would have this tactic in their doctrine.



As said, I responded to a challenge asking to produce a video in which American troops can be seen shooting at peaceful civilians. And complied. I'd suggest directing any further comments at the user who initiated the challenge.

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## A.P. Richelieu

SalarHaqq said:


> Cannot see it. Nor could the Guardian journalists. I very much doubt me and them are collectively suffering from ophthalmological dysfunctions.


I can see what appears to be guns.
The pilots are not limited by the granularity of the video camera. It is their perception which is important. They can see the type of gun.



SalarHaqq said:


> It is protected against disproportionate use of force.



Killing the crew of a pickup Is not disproportional force, when the suspected attack may kill several hundreds.



SalarHaqq said:


> I didn't employ this terminology.
> 
> However it seems you spoke of killing innocent civilians:
> 
> View attachment 843968



Yes, the attack in Afghanistan was to protect innocent civilians.



SalarHaqq said:


> Or when trigger happy war criminals target them in cold blood.


Saw no evidence of anyone deliberately targetting what they believed was peaceful civilians.



SalarHaqq said:


> I haven't seen evidence of Taleban (who mostly fought in the countryside and mountains) putting too many civilians at risk during combat situations.



Considering that the Taliban and their allies killed up to 75% of the civilians in Afghanistan during the war, you might consider starting reading about it.

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## Oldman1

SalarHaqq said:


> Can't discern any confession of having planned let alone masterminded the event in there.
> 
> He's basically saying he considers the attacks to have been 'inevitable' (and giving reasons for why he thinks so). And claiming that "they" cannot but "punish the aggressors in kind" - potentially referring to any more or less defined group he considers himself to be part of (Muslims in general, Al-Qaeda, fighters ideologically aligned on him who may or may not share organizational links with him etc), .
> 
> All of which is too vague and polysemous to be considered as a proper admission.
> 
> Plus as said, none of this implies that people like him weren't being manipulated by higher ups in western intelligence services.


You don't see these words?

*"If so, then let him explain to us why we don’t strike for example – Sweden? And we know that freedom-haters don’t possess defiant spirits like those of the 19 – may Allah have mercy on them."

"So I shall talk to you about the story behind those events and shall tell you truthfully about the moments in which the decision was taken, for you to consider."

"I say to you, Allah knows that it had never occurred to us to strike the towers. But after it became unbearable and we witnessed the oppression and tyranny of the American/Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind."

"And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children."

"But because it seemed to him that occupying himself by talking to the little girl about the goat and its butting was more important than occupying himself with the planes and their butting of the skyscrapers, we were given three times the period required to execute the operations – all praise is due to Allah."*

When he says we, he means he and others. Al Qaida is not just a 1 man show. He didn't hijack 4 planes and crashed it himself. You can call it manipulation by western intelligence or not, but you seen in the past that they do these things. I don't know where you decided when he or others does it for the Muslim people or not since we see this going on all over the world.


----------



## SalarHaqq

A.P. Richelieu said:


> I can see what appears to be guns.



There's no evidence of the victims carrying guns.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> The pilots are not limited by the granularity of the video camera. It is their perception which is important. They can see the type of gun.



Or that these people weren't carrying any guns.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Killing the crew of a pickup Is not disproportional force, when the suspected attack may kill several hundreds.



There was no attack planned by anybody.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Yes, the attack in Afghanistan was to protect innocent civilians.



Or to murder uninvolved civilians.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Saw no evidence of anyone deliberately targetting what they believed was peaceful civilians.



The videos you requested were shared.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Considering that the Taliban and their allies killed up to 75% of the civilians in Afghanistan during the war, you might consider starting reading about it.
> 
> View attachment 843974



Perhaps you ought to read it too: it relates to one particular year of the war (out of a total of twenty), not its entirety. Also, I don't see how Taleban killing Afghan civilians can possibly justify NATO occupiers doing the same.

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## thetutle

Apollon said:


> Nobody in Germany misses Merkel. Her time as chancellor were a desaster


Why?


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525469825660854274

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## SalarHaqq

Oldman1 said:


> When he says we, he means he and others.



Could imply he floated the idea and others actually planned and carried it out.



Oldman1 said:


> You can call it manipulation by western intelligence or not,



Because it doesn't matter to you that Al-Qaida and other such outfits are in fact patsies for NATO and zionist intelligence services? That they've literally been engineered by the latter?



Oldman1 said:


> but you seen in the past that they do these things.



Yes, on behalf of Washington and Tel Aviv, knowingly or unknowingly. They are fake opposition.

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## A.P. Richelieu

SalarHaqq said:


> There's no evidence of the victims carrying guns.


There is no evidence that they did not carry guns.
The video is evidence that the pilots believed they could identify the type of gun.
You have to,prove there were no guns and that the pilots believed there were no guns to prove a crime.

Meanwhile, what is this guy holding?









SalarHaqq said:


> Or that these people weren't carrying any guns.


Prove it.


SalarHaqq said:


> There was no attack planned by anybody.


There was an attack on the airport right before that, and information that new attacks were planned.

It killed 170 civilians and 13 US soldiers.
It severely injured more than 150 civilians.

Was that disproportionate?





__





2021 Kabul airport attack - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org






SalarHaqq said:


> Or to murder uninvolved civilians.
> 
> 
> 
> Saw no evidence of combatants using civilians as human shields.
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps you ought to read it: it relates to one particular year of the war (out of a total of twenty), not to its entirety. Also, I don't see how Taleban killing Afghan civilians can possibly justify NATO occupiers doing the same.


That is about hypocricy, which ignores the war crimes of the Taliban, while claiming that the West systematically commits war crimes, without being able to prove that.

War crimes do exist, but they are prosecuted when they are revealed. The Taliban and Palestinians do not prosecute their war criminals.

That gives the West moral leverage over Talibans and Palestinians.

Russian can be overheard *ordering* war crimes.


----------



## Oldman1

SalarHaqq said:


> Could imply he floated the idea and others actually planned and carried it out.



No he himself said that he made a decision to plan and order the attacks himself.


SalarHaqq said:


> Because it doesn't matter to you that Al-Qaida and other such outfits are in fact patsies of NATO and zionist intelligence services? That they've literally been engineered by the latter?


You can call it engineered all you want or that Muslims don't do these attacks to cover it up. Thats your choice.


SalarHaqq said:


> Yes, on behalf of Washington and Tel Aviv, knowingly or unknowingly. They are fake opposition.


Yeah sure.


----------



## RoadAmerica

BHAN85 said:


> Russians are protecting their borders and you criticize them.
> 
> NATO was protecting nothing in the Afghanistan war and you want your country join them.
> 
> All wars have collateral civilian damage, but this war is neccesary for Russia security.
> 
> Afghanistan NATO war was not necessary for NATO security.
> 
> It was just a free crime, a way to train their troops and test weapons under the lie of 911 attacks. And you want your country join to such evil organization under the pretext of Russian evilness .


🤣I couldn’t get past the first sentence

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525533377994141702

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525515200555892736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525200563578851328

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## thetutle

Oldman1 said:


> LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Full transcript of bin Ladin’s speech
> 
> 
> Following is the full English transcript of Usama bin Ladin’s speech in a videotape sent to Aljazeera. In the interests of authenticity, the content of the transcript, which appeared as subtitles at the foot of the screen, has been left unedited.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"Before I begin, I say to you that security is an indispensable pillar of human life and that free men do not forfeit their security, contrary to Bush’s claim that we hate freedom.
> 
> If so, then let him explain to us why we don’t strike for example – Sweden? And we know that freedom-haters don’t possess defiant spirits like those of the 19 – may Allah have mercy on them.
> 
> No, we fight because we are free men who don’t sleep under oppression. We want to restore freedom to our nation, just as you lay waste to our nation. So shall we lay waste to yours.
> 
> No one except a dumb thief plays with the security of others and then makes himself believe he will be secure. Whereas thinking people, when disaster strikes, make it their priority to look for its causes, in order to prevent it happening again.
> 
> But I am amazed at you. Even though we are in the fourth year after the events of September 11th, Bush is still engaged in distortion, deception and hiding from you the real causes. And thus, the reasons are still there for a repeat of what occurred.
> 
> So I shall talk to you about the story behind those events and shall tell you truthfully about the moments in which the decision was taken, for you to consider.
> 
> I say to you, Allah knows that it had never occurred to us to strike the towers. But after it became unbearable and we witnessed the oppression and tyranny of the American/Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind.
> 
> The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that. This bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorised and displaced."
> 
> "And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children.
> 
> And that day, it was confirmed to me that oppression and the intentional killing of innocent women and children is a deliberate American policy. Destruction is freedom and democracy, while resistance is terrorism and intolerance.
> 
> This means the oppressing and embargoing to death of millions as Bush Sr did in Iraq in the greatest mass slaughter of children mankind has ever known, and it means the throwing of millions of pounds of bombs and explosives at millions of children – also in Iraq – as Bush Jr did, in order to remove an old agent and replace him with a new puppet to assist in the pilfering of Iraq’s oil and other outrages.
> 
> So with these images and their like as their background, the events of September 11th came as a reply to those great wrongs, should a man be blamed for defending his sanctuary?
> 
> Is defending oneself and punishing the aggressor in kind, objectionable terrorism? If it is such, then it is unavoidable for us.
> 
> This is the message which I sought to communicate to you in word and deed, repeatedly, for years before September 11th.
> 
> And you can read this, if you wish, in my interview with Scott in Time Magazine in 1996, or with Peter Arnett on CNN in 1997, or my meeting with John Weiner in 1998.
> 
> 
> 
> You can observe it practically, if you wish, in Kenya and Tanzania and in Aden. And you can read it in my interview with Abdul Bari Atwan, as well as my interviews with Robert Fisk.
> 
> The latter is one of your compatriots and co-religionists and I consider him to be neutral. So are the pretenders of freedom at the White House and the channels controlled by them able to run an interview with him? So that he may relay to the American people what he has understood from us to be the reasons for our fight against you?"*


america and the west acted unreasonably against muslims in general. It lead to a war on terror for 20 years. the cost of that was a strong china. Now west has to deal with it. 

That was the price for their fanatical zionism. And many in the west are asking why and we also have resurgence in anti- zionism in the west as a result. 

But that has to take backstage now. Russia and china have become priorities.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525527888891727877

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525506416374603779


----------



## SalarHaqq

A.P. Richelieu said:


> There is no evidence that they did not carry guns.
> The video is evidence that the pilots believed they could identify the type of gun.
> You have to,prove there were no guns and that the pilots believed there were no guns to prove a crime.





A.P. Richelieu said:


> Prove it.



This discussion started when you sought to contrast what is in effect some highly inconclusive footage featuring alleged Russian forces on the one hand, and compromising video material that involves US troops on the other.

The videos of American occupiers shared here are far more suggestive of war crimes than anything shown about the Russians. So we made our point already.



> Meanwhile, what is this guy holding?



What's that? Can't even tell whether he's holding anything to start with.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> There was an attack on the airport right before that, and information that new attacks were planned.



Bogus intelligence can always be fabricated afterwards to justify a crime.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> That is about hypocricy, which ignores the war crimes of the Taliban, while claiming that the West systematically commits war crimes, without being able to prove that.
> 
> War crimes do exist, but they are prosecuted when they are revealed. The Taliban and Palestinians do not prosecute their war criminals.
> 
> That gives the West moral leverage over Talibans and Palestinians.



This is all based on four prior assumptions:

1) Specialized ad hoc UN agencies are always credible.
2) 2010 civilians deaths attributed to the Taleban weren't mostly collateral damage.
3) It doesn't matter that the Taleban lack precision weapons, as opposed to NATO occupation forces. 
4) Western regimes are trustworthy when they claim that they will systematically prosecute war crimes committed by their military forces.

In other words, questionable conjecture rather than factual assessment.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Russian can be overheard ordering war crimes.



No evidence these are Russian military. Fake audio recordings are especially easy to forge.

- - - - -



Oldman1 said:


> No he himself said that he made a decision to plan and order the attacks himself.



He said the idea came to his mind. And that "the decision was taken" - he doesn't say by whom. But I can tell you, the ultimate planners and decision makers were sitting in Washington D.C. and Tel Aviv.



Oldman1 said:


> You can call it engineered all you want or that Muslims don't do these attacks to cover it up. Thats your choice.



Patsies isn't exactly a compliment. This isn't about whitewashing any Muslims, but about telling useful idiots from big shots.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## ckf

gambit said:


> Back in WW II, JPN said its army conducted 'strategic withdrawals'. Here, the Russian Army is doing the same with the addition that the withdrawal is out of humanitarian concerns. So if Russia ultimately lose or stalemated it was because the Russian Army was too humane.


There are no winners in War, only losers...Ukraine lost 6 million people/refugees and infrastructure completely destroyed. Russian lost soldiers, equipment and economic sanctions. Europe and America has run away inflation (core cpi at 8.6%) and US mother has no baby formula. But Biden wants to give Ukraine $40 billion to prolong the suffering for another 5 month/$200 million USD a day for this proxy war while American Babies can't get feed. 








Tucker: This is the cause of the baby formula crisis


Fox News host Tucker Carlson gets to the bottom of the baby formula shortage on 'Tucker Carlson Tonight.'




www.foxnews.com

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Oldman1

SalarHaqq said:


> He said the idea came to his mind. And that "the decision was taken" - he doesn't say by whom. But I can tell you, the ultimate decision makers were sitting in Washington D.C. and Tel Aviv.


.........


SalarHaqq said:


> Patsies isn't exactly a compliment. This isn't about whitewashing any Muslims, but about telling useful idiots from masterminds.


LOL! Sometimes there are consequences even if you think its justified like hitting Twin Towers or the embassies to force the government to change their policies, it could backfire which led to what you see in the Middle East. So whether you think the attacks benefitted the Muslim people or not, it depends on the conclusion. If the destruction of the Twin Towers force the U.S. government to pull troops out or cut off aid to Israel, you be saying Al Qaeda are heroes! On the other hand if it led to millions of Muslim lives lost and collapse of government and civil war and destruction of the cities, well you think they were western puppets.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

SalarHaqq said:


> This discussion started when you sought to contrast what is in effect some highly inconclusive footage featuring alleged Russian forces on the one hand, and compromising video material that involves US troops on the other.
> 
> The videos of American occupiers shared here are much more suggestive of war crimes than anything that's been shown about the Russians. So we made our point already.
> 
> 
> 
> Bogus intelligence can always be fabricated afterwards to justify a crime.
> 
> 
> 
> This is all based on three prior assumptions:
> 
> 1) Specialized ad hoc UN agencies are always credible.
> 2) 2010 civilians deaths attributed to the Taleban weren't mostly collateral damage.
> 3) Western regimes are trustworthy when they claim that they will systematically prosecute war crimes committed by their military forces.
> 
> In other words, questionable conjecture but not solidly established fact.
> 
> 
> 
> No evidence these are Russian military. Fake audio recordings are especially easy to forge.
> 
> - - - - -
> 
> 
> 
> He said the idea came to his mind. And that "the decision was taken" - he doesn't say by whom. But I can tell you, the ultimate planners and decision makers were sitting in Washington D.C. and Tel Aviv.
> 
> 
> 
> Patsies isn't exactly a compliment. This isn't about whitewashing any Muslims, but about telling useful idiots from masterminds.


This started when there was a claim that there were plenty of videos showing that Israelis and Americans executed peaceful civilians that were not engaging in activities that could be interpreted as a threat.

So far no such video has been produced.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## SalarHaqq

Oldman1 said:


> LOL! Sometimes there are consequences even if you think its justified like hitting Twin Towers or the embassies to force the government to change their policies, it could backfire which led to what you see in the Middle East. So whether you think the attacks benefitted the Muslim people or not, it depends on the conclusion. If the destruction of the Twin Towers force the U.S. government to pull troops out or cut off aid to Israel, you be saying Al Qaeda are heroes! On the other hand if it led to millions of Muslim lives lost in collapse of government and civil war and destruction of the cities, well you think they were western puppets.



It's more like NATO and zionist regimes needed a trigger to politically legitimize the large scale destabilization of West Asia and North Africa they had been planning. To this end they activated the same types of networks they had established some fifteen years earlier to combat the Soviets in Afghanistan, and used them to obtain the pretext they needed.

The alternative scenario you imagined is too far fetched.What person in their right mind, knowing who the neoconservatives are and what the establishment elites in Washington are up to (especially after publicly expressing the belief that a "new Pearl Harbor" would enable them to implement their plans for domination), would come to believe that striking symbolic high rise towers in New York and killing many hundreds of civilians would somehow convince America's ruling oligarchy that it needs to withdraw from the Muslim world in order to have peace?

- - - - -



A.P. Richelieu said:


> This started when there was a claim that there were plenty of videos showing that Israelis and Americans executed peaceful civilians that were not engaging in activities that could be interpreted as a threat.



The statement came in reaction to a video alleging that Russians were killing civilians. Between the two sets of materials, it seems clear to me which ones are offering more compelling indications.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525541742317031425


----------



## thetutle

A.P. Richelieu said:


> This started when there was a claim that there were plenty of videos showing that Israelis and Americans executed peaceful civilians that were not engaging in activities that could be interpreted as a threat.
> 
> So far no such video has been produced.


You are clearly deluded. This is no place for such discussions. The general hate in America for blacks, brown people and muslims will inevitably lead to cold blooded murder especailly in places where laws dont apply to US military. Such murderers would be treated as heroes in America by a vast vast majority. I know these people and they openly admit their crimes. They all never see justice in any western country. 

Why such wars existed in the first place is a long discussion. Personally I dont think Muslims should have fought Americans to bring Saddam back. I dont see how he is a good guy. Also I dont think Taliban are great at running a country. Afghanis deserve better. 

Much can be said about Israelis, But since I dont want to vomit, I will not even discuss them. To deny their crimes would require a special type of sick mind. I even know jews and Israelis who would not deny this and are disgusted by the place and wold never want to go back to that place. I even know zionists who genuinely want Israel to exist but not at the cost to their humanity.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525533933189963776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525505769889845248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525467015040970752

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hamartia Antidote

ckf said:


> and US mother has no baby formula. But Biden wants to give Ukraine $40 billion to prolong the suffering for another 5 month/$200 million USD a day for this proxy war while American Babies can't get feed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tucker: This is the cause of the baby formula crisis
> 
> 
> Fox News host Tucker Carlson gets to the bottom of the baby formula shortage on 'Tucker Carlson Tonight.'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.foxnews.com



Would you stop posting off-topic smokescreens in this Ukraine thread. The shortage has to do a with a recall from a contaminated Abbott factory in Michigan and nothing to do with Ukraine. Abbott is the one paying for the fixing not the US taxpayer and it only severely affects 8 out of 50 states. The inventory can be reshuffled.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## thetutle

SalarHaqq said:


> This is a baseless hypothetical alternative you're imagining. It's more like NATO and zionist regimes needed a trigger event to politically legitimize the large scale destabilization of West Asia and North Africa they had been planning, and to this effect they activated the same types of networks they had established some fifteen years earlier to combat the Soviets in Afghanistan, and used them to obtain the pretext they needed.


There may be some truth to this. but lets face it, its not that hard to radicalise some muslims enough that they would carry out such attacks against the west. But its not a good idea. The west cant be defeated like this. Its futile.


----------



## The SC

What really happened at the Seversky Donets crossing?​
A person who says he is a Ukrainian combat engineer has already claimed the glory of destroying a whole Battalion Tactical Group and killing 1500(!!!) Russian soldiers at a river crossing near Belogorovka. Ukrainian propaganda twitter & BrOSINT are all over it, coming up with ever higher numbers, sharing photos of the battle. What actually happened there?
Let’s take a look. This post will be a mix of my own observations, as well as a translation of the analysis provided by Greatwarchannel.

First off, some basic premises:
1) Photos and short videos with no proper geolocation & date given are inherently not representing a complete picture & even in the best case are nothing more than a snapshot.
2) We don’t know the time period over which the events depicted in such a snapshot occurred.
3) Both sides use a similar set of military equipment. It is difficult, and often impossible, to determine from the available photos and videos the identity of a particular vehicle.
4) Both sides have trophy vehicles from the other side, further complicating the analysis.
5) People pretending to be “Open Source Intelligence” specialists on Twitter are biased to a ridiculous degree, media uses them as “objective” sources, thus disproving Ukrainian war propaganda is an often thankless task of having to “defend” against the most extreme pseudo-analysis.

In addition, one side of the conflict has lied a lot more than the other side about such things, including blunders like using video game footage. If anything, you should try to be as unbiased as possible about tactical claims, but if something comes from the side that posts ArmA 3 videos, some extra scrutiny is in order.



Photo 1

There’s something interesting in Photo 1, namely wreckage of BMP-1s (1, 2 and 4) and also turrets torn off by ammo detonations, from the same type of vehicle (3 and 6)
Another interesting exhibit is 5, which looks like a BTR-D.
BTR-Ds are used by the Russian Airborne Forces, but Ukrainian air and ground forces also have them. The Donbass republics also captured several of them as trophies.
As for the BMP-1s, everything is more interesting. The Russian Army no longer uses the base variant of the BMP-1. They use BMP-1AM "Basurmanin" and BRM-1K, but both of them differ in combat compartment, and here we can clearly see the small single turrets of BMP-1.
The BMP-1 is, however, in service with the LPR and DPR People's Militias.



Photo 2

On this photo, we can see a bunch of BMP-1s. Numbers 6, 7, 11, 12, 20, 21, 15, 16 and 19 are clearly identifiable. A turret can be discerned around 12. Nine pieces, plus three in the previous shot. Twelve BMP-1s. Yes, number 6 is a BMP-1, it is better visible in another shot.
This cannot be ascribed to a random battlefield trophy the Russian army picked up.
The gem of this frame is number 10, which with a high degree of probability is none other than the Ukrainian "armored ambulance" based on the MT-LB, namely the MT-LB C, which has been supplied to the AFU since 2015. According to open data, the AFU has about 70 vehicles of this type, which is not that rare.
The nine is clearly an old "motolyga" (MT-LB) which has a small turret.
Numbers 8, 13, 17, 18 and 14 are harder to identify. Most likely these are machines of MT-LB family, number 13 even has a small turret.
Next slide.



Photo 3

We continue counting BMP-1s.
Numbers 23, 25, 27, 28, 29, and 30. Twelve BMP-1s plus six more, that's eighteen! Too many to be a coincidence.
Also another MT-LB, number 22.



Photo 4

Seven more BMP-1s: 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 37, 41. Already twenty-five of them.
41, 31 and 35 have visible invasion marks, thus proving that they most likely belong to the Allied Forces of Russia & the Donbass republics (probably the latter, or actually Russian trophies). This, of course, begs the question why all the other BMP-1s, even those in reasonably “good” condition, don’t have invasion marks if they’re supposed to be Russian?
Number 36 is another MT-LB, looks like the turret was also blown off.
Number 38 is not clearly identifiable.

Numbers 39 and 40 are T-72 tanks, possibly the B modification. Both look mostly undamaged. We’ve called the war a “Late Soviet Tech Genocide” before, most of the vehicle losses are among the APCs and IVFs.



Photo 5

Number 42 is a Kamaz 8x8 with a pontoon.
Numbers 43 to 47 are various river crossing equipment, much of it used by both sides (e.g. the the PMP-60).
48 and 49 are tugboats.

Now, what does this tell us.

1) According to the composition of the burned equipment, we see the presence of the Russian and Ukrainian armies, as well as forces of the LPR or DPR. We can no longer write off the entire pile as Russian casualties.

2) As can be seen from photo 5, the path there is well-traveled, which is understandable. After the bridges got blown up, such a convenient crossing place could not go unnoticed by both sides.
3) Thus we come to the most likely version of what happened at the crossing near Belogorovka. Both sides liked the place of the crossing. First the Ukrainians, but the Russian (Allied) forces suffered losses during the crossing as well.

4) The "mix" of equipment and its condition indicates that the sides fought over the crossing for some time (probably about a week) until it fell into the hands of the Allied Forces.
5) This is also indicated by Ukrainian photos and videos taken from a respectful distance. The crossing is clearly not under the control of the Ukrainian forces, otherwise the internet would have been FLOODED by close-ups of corpses and vehicles. They are notoriously prone to TikTok victories.

6) There are no bodies in the shots, which suggests that one of the parties had the opportunity to remove them.

7) The Ukrainian General Staff stated that in the evening of May 11, "The enemy is trying to seize positions on the right bank," and by the next morning "the enemy is crossing the Seversky Donets River to carry out an offensive.”

Later there were reports that Russian troops not only had not retreated from the area, but were expanding the bridgehead. It is difficult to say how large the bridgehead is now, but on May 11, judging by the published satellite images, the Seversky Donets crossing was intact. Right now, fighting is reported on the other side of the river, implying a successful crossing.

It looks like most of the fighting was done by the LPR & DPR in this area, with Russian forces carrying out the river crossing itself.

Two independent private sources on the ground have stated to me that Allied Forces vehicle losses were “around 20” and “fewer than two dozen”, respectively, with casualties between 30 and 50.


https://rwasamizdat.substack.com/p/what-really-happened-at-the-seversky?utm_source=twitter&s=r

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525246002847948800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525338126385831942

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525033935805243392

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2


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## The SC

A summary of what's going on in and around Ukraine:

Ukraine: Russians withdraw from around Kharkiv, batter east​
https://apnews.com/article/russia-u...n=SocialFlow&utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter

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1


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## thetutle

The SC said:


> What really happened at the Seversky Donets crossing?​
> A person who says he is a Ukrainian combat engineer has already claimed the glory of destroying a whole Battalion Tactical Group and killing 1500(!!!) Russian soldiers at a river crossing near Belogorovka. Ukrainian propaganda twitter & BrOSINT are all over it, coming up with ever higher numbers, sharing photos of the battle. What actually happened there?
> Let’s take a look. This post will be a mix of my own observations, as well as a translation of the analysis provided by Greatwarchannel.
> 
> First off, some basic premises:
> 1) Photos and short videos with no proper geolocation & date given are inherently not representing a complete picture & even in the best case are nothing more than a snapshot.
> 2) We don’t know the time period over which the events depicted in such a snapshot occurred.
> 3) Both sides use a similar set of military equipment. It is difficult, and often impossible, to determine from the available photos and videos the identity of a particular vehicle.
> 4) Both sides have trophy vehicles from the other side, further complicating the analysis.
> 5) People pretending to be “Open Source Intelligence” specialists on Twitter are biased to a ridiculous degree, media uses them as “objective” sources, thus disproving Ukrainian war propaganda is an often thankless task of having to “defend” against the most extreme pseudo-analysis.
> 
> In addition, one side of the conflict has lied a lot more than the other side about such things, including blunders like using video game footage. If anything, you should try to be as unbiased as possible about tactical claims, but if something comes from the side that posts ArmA 3 videos, some extra scrutiny is in order.
> 
> 
> 
> Photo 1
> 
> There’s something interesting in Photo 1, namely wreckage of BMP-1s (1, 2 and 4) and also turrets torn off by ammo detonations, from the same type of vehicle (3 and 6)
> Another interesting exhibit is 5, which looks like a BTR-D.
> BTR-Ds are used by the Russian Airborne Forces, but Ukrainian air and ground forces also have them. The Donbass republics also captured several of them as trophies.
> As for the BMP-1s, everything is more interesting. The Russian Army no longer uses the base variant of the BMP-1. They use BMP-1AM "Basurmanin" and BRM-1K, but both of them differ in combat compartment, and here we can clearly see the small single turrets of BMP-1.
> The BMP-1 is, however, in service with the LPR and DPR People's Militias.
> 
> 
> 
> Photo 2
> 
> On this photo, we can see a bunch of BMP-1s. Numbers 6, 7, 11, 12, 20, 21, 15, 16 and 19 are clearly identifiable. A turret can be discerned around 12. Nine pieces, plus three in the previous shot. Twelve BMP-1s. Yes, number 6 is a BMP-1, it is better visible in another shot.
> This cannot be ascribed to a random battlefield trophy the Russian army picked up.
> The gem of this frame is number 10, which with a high degree of probability is none other than the Ukrainian "armored ambulance" based on the MT-LB, namely the MT-LB C, which has been supplied to the AFU since 2015. According to open data, the AFU has about 70 vehicles of this type, which is not that rare.
> The nine is clearly an old "motolyga" (MT-LB) which has a small turret.
> Numbers 8, 13, 17, 18 and 14 are harder to identify. Most likely these are machines of MT-LB family, number 13 even has a small turret.
> Next slide.
> 
> 
> 
> Photo 3
> 
> We continue counting BMP-1s.
> Numbers 23, 25, 27, 28, 29, and 30. Twelve BMP-1s plus six more, that's eighteen! Too many to be a coincidence.
> Also another MT-LB, number 22.
> 
> 
> 
> Photo 4
> 
> Seven more BMP-1s: 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 37, 41. Already twenty-five of them.
> 41, 31 and 35 have visible invasion marks, thus proving that they most likely belong to the Allied Forces of Russia & the Donbass republics (probably the latter, or actually Russian trophies). This, of course, begs the question why all the other BMP-1s, even those in reasonably “good” condition, don’t have invasion marks if they’re supposed to be Russian?
> Number 36 is another MT-LB, looks like the turret was also blown off.
> Number 38 is not clearly identifiable.
> 
> Numbers 39 and 40 are T-72 tanks, possibly the B modification. Both look mostly undamaged. We’ve called the war a “Late Soviet Tech Genocide” before, most of the vehicle losses are among the APCs and IVFs.
> 
> 
> 
> Photo 5
> 
> Number 42 is a Kamaz 8x8 with a pontoon.
> Numbers 43 to 47 are various river crossing equipment, much of it used by both sides (e.g. the the PMP-60).
> 48 and 49 are tugboats.
> 
> Now, what does this tell us.
> 
> 1) According to the composition of the burned equipment, we see the presence of the Russian and Ukrainian armies, as well as forces of the LPR or DPR. We can no longer write off the entire pile as Russian casualties.
> 
> 2) As can be seen from photo 5, the path there is well-traveled, which is understandable. After the bridges got blown up, such a convenient crossing place could not go unnoticed by both sides.
> 3) Thus we come to the most likely version of what happened at the crossing near Belogorovka. Both sides liked the place of the crossing. First the Ukrainians, but the Russian (Allied) forces suffered losses during the crossing as well.
> 
> 4) The "mix" of equipment and its condition indicates that the sides fought over the crossing for some time (probably about a week) until it fell into the hands of the Allied Forces.
> 5) This is also indicated by Ukrainian photos and videos taken from a respectful distance. The crossing is clearly not under the control of the Ukrainian forces, otherwise the internet would have been FLOODED by close-ups of corpses and vehicles. They are notoriously prone to TikTok victories.
> 
> 6) There are no bodies in the shots, which suggests that one of the parties had the opportunity to remove them.
> 
> 7) The Ukrainian General Staff stated that in the evening of May 11, "The enemy is trying to seize positions on the right bank," and by the next morning "the enemy is crossing the Seversky Donets River to carry out an offensive.”
> 
> Later there were reports that Russian troops not only had not retreated from the area, but were expanding the bridgehead. It is difficult to say how large the bridgehead is now, but on May 11, judging by the published satellite images, the Seversky Donets crossing was intact. Right now, fighting is reported on the other side of the river, implying a successful crossing.
> 
> It looks like most of the fighting was done by the LPR & DPR in this area, with Russian forces carrying out the river crossing itself.
> 
> Two independent private sources on the ground have stated to me that Allied Forces vehicle losses were “around 20” and “fewer than two dozen”, respectively, with casualties between 30 and 50.
> 
> 
> https://rwasamizdat.substack.com/p/what-really-happened-at-the-seversky?utm_source=twitter&s=r


these old KGB tactics of building this fake narrative though quasi science and analysis is so very 1970's. It will not work in the modern age, Its a waste of time. I just ignore anything coming out of russia.

But what is clear is that they are taking some real punishment.

And good to see expanded NATO. I am sure turkey will allow them to join, if sweden and Finland are smart they will hand over the PKK guys and openly speak out against terrorism.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Shakuni Mama

Apollon said:


> Greece build Europe. 🙂👍
> 
> 
> Greece destroyed Persia and protected Europe from barbarian hordes.



Which Century ? Listen we are not living in Past. You are boasting about the same thing which Turks boast about Ottoman or Persians about something. What are you up to today ? Nothing, Nada, Zilch ? Living on borrowed money, Someone saving you one way or other for your utter failures and here you are talking like a spokesperson of NATO financed by Greece.

I am also against this invasion but I am not talking about which we cannot do as an Individual. The way you thugs of few nations made NATO and carried out one invasion after another, trust me you would be knocked out by someone and that too far away from your shores. Whatever you tiny pot countries has something called Army we can arrange 10 times of that in a day. Only thing is that we are not thugs like you else we from Asia is more than half of the population with three nuclear power states.

Call it a day and meet on some other thread as it is meant for Russia and Ukraine War.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

Coup to oust Putin is 'already under way'


Ukraine's spy chief Major General Kyrylo Budanov, 36, last night claimed that a coup to remove Vladimir Putin is already under way and that Russia would lose the war by the end of this year.




www.dailymail.co.uk





he's definitely not looking his usual bright self. They've poisoned him somehow or he just got sick, but its clear he's not going to be around much longer.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525468996430086147

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525492679597084672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525502430875734017


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525502507660759042

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525505738491183106

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525502267289489408

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> What really happened at the Seversky Donets crossing?​
> A person who says he is a Ukrainian combat engineer has already claimed the glory of destroying a whole Battalion Tactical Group and killing 1500(!!!) Russian soldiers at a river crossing near Belogorovka. Ukrainian propaganda twitter & BrOSINT are all over it, coming up with ever higher numbers, sharing photos of the battle. What actually happened there?
> Let’s take a look. This post will be a mix of my own observations, as well as a translation of the analysis provided by Greatwarchannel.
> 
> First off, some basic premises:
> 1) Photos and short videos with no proper geolocation & date given are inherently not representing a complete picture & even in the best case are nothing more than a snapshot.
> 2) We don’t know the time period over which the events depicted in such a snapshot occurred.
> 3) Both sides use a similar set of military equipment. It is difficult, and often impossible, to determine from the available photos and videos the identity of a particular vehicle.
> 4) Both sides have trophy vehicles from the other side, further complicating the analysis.
> 5) People pretending to be “Open Source Intelligence” specialists on Twitter are biased to a ridiculous degree, media uses them as “objective” sources, thus disproving Ukrainian war propaganda is an often thankless task of having to “defend” against the most extreme pseudo-analysis.
> 
> In addition, one side of the conflict has lied a lot more than the other side about such things, including blunders like using video game footage. If anything, you should try to be as unbiased as possible about tactical claims, but if something comes from the side that posts ArmA 3 videos, some extra scrutiny is in order.
> 
> 
> 
> Photo 1
> 
> There’s something interesting in Photo 1, namely wreckage of BMP-1s (1, 2 and 4) and also turrets torn off by ammo detonations, from the same type of vehicle (3 and 6)
> Another interesting exhibit is 5, which looks like a BTR-D.
> BTR-Ds are used by the Russian Airborne Forces, but Ukrainian air and ground forces also have them. The Donbass republics also captured several of them as trophies.
> As for the BMP-1s, everything is more interesting. The Russian Army no longer uses the base variant of the BMP-1. They use BMP-1AM "Basurmanin" and BRM-1K, but both of them differ in combat compartment, and here we can clearly see the small single turrets of BMP-1.
> The BMP-1 is, however, in service with the LPR and DPR People's Militias.
> 
> 
> 
> Photo 2
> 
> On this photo, we can see a bunch of BMP-1s. Numbers 6, 7, 11, 12, 20, 21, 15, 16 and 19 are clearly identifiable. A turret can be discerned around 12. Nine pieces, plus three in the previous shot. Twelve BMP-1s. Yes, number 6 is a BMP-1, it is better visible in another shot.
> This cannot be ascribed to a random battlefield trophy the Russian army picked up.
> The gem of this frame is number 10, which with a high degree of probability is none other than the Ukrainian "armored ambulance" based on the MT-LB, namely the MT-LB C, which has been supplied to the AFU since 2015. According to open data, the AFU has about 70 vehicles of this type, which is not that rare.
> The nine is clearly an old "motolyga" (MT-LB) which has a small turret.
> Numbers 8, 13, 17, 18 and 14 are harder to identify. Most likely these are machines of MT-LB family, number 13 even has a small turret.
> Next slide.
> 
> 
> 
> Photo 3
> 
> We continue counting BMP-1s.
> Numbers 23, 25, 27, 28, 29, and 30. Twelve BMP-1s plus six more, that's eighteen! Too many to be a coincidence.
> Also another MT-LB, number 22.
> 
> 
> 
> Photo 4
> 
> Seven more BMP-1s: 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 37, 41. Already twenty-five of them.
> 41, 31 and 35 have visible invasion marks, thus proving that they most likely belong to the Allied Forces of Russia & the Donbass republics (probably the latter, or actually Russian trophies). This, of course, begs the question why all the other BMP-1s, even those in reasonably “good” condition, don’t have invasion marks if they’re supposed to be Russian?
> Number 36 is another MT-LB, looks like the turret was also blown off.
> Number 38 is not clearly identifiable.
> 
> Numbers 39 and 40 are T-72 tanks, possibly the B modification. Both look mostly undamaged. We’ve called the war a “Late Soviet Tech Genocide” before, most of the vehicle losses are among the APCs and IVFs.
> 
> 
> 
> Photo 5
> 
> Number 42 is a Kamaz 8x8 with a pontoon.
> Numbers 43 to 47 are various river crossing equipment, much of it used by both sides (e.g. the the PMP-60).
> 48 and 49 are tugboats.
> 
> Now, what does this tell us.
> 
> 1) According to the composition of the burned equipment, we see the presence of the Russian and Ukrainian armies, as well as forces of the LPR or DPR. We can no longer write off the entire pile as Russian casualties.
> 
> 2) As can be seen from photo 5, the path there is well-traveled, which is understandable. After the bridges got blown up, such a convenient crossing place could not go unnoticed by both sides.
> 3) Thus we come to the most likely version of what happened at the crossing near Belogorovka. Both sides liked the place of the crossing. First the Ukrainians, but the Russian (Allied) forces suffered losses during the crossing as well.
> 
> 4) The "mix" of equipment and its condition indicates that the sides fought over the crossing for some time (probably about a week) until it fell into the hands of the Allied Forces.
> 5) This is also indicated by Ukrainian photos and videos taken from a respectful distance. The crossing is clearly not under the control of the Ukrainian forces, otherwise the internet would have been FLOODED by close-ups of corpses and vehicles. They are notoriously prone to TikTok victories.
> 
> 6) There are no bodies in the shots, which suggests that one of the parties had the opportunity to remove them.
> 
> 7) The Ukrainian General Staff stated that in the evening of May 11, "The enemy is trying to seize positions on the right bank," and by the next morning "the enemy is crossing the Seversky Donets River to carry out an offensive.”
> 
> Later there were reports that Russian troops not only had not retreated from the area, but were expanding the bridgehead. It is difficult to say how large the bridgehead is now, but on May 11, judging by the published satellite images, the Seversky Donets crossing was intact. Right now, fighting is reported on the other side of the river, implying a successful crossing.
> 
> It looks like most of the fighting was done by the LPR & DPR in this area, with Russian forces carrying out the river crossing itself.
> 
> Two independent private sources on the ground have stated to me that Allied Forces vehicle losses were “around 20” and “fewer than two dozen”, respectively, with casualties between 30 and 50.
> 
> 
> https://rwasamizdat.substack.com/p/what-really-happened-at-the-seversky?utm_source=twitter&s=r


The source is RWA (Russians With Attitude). Hardly neutral, most probably another russian propaganda tool. And about 50 russian BMP 1 has been confirmed destroyed or captured before this incident, so the author is lying when stating Russia doesnt use them.
Other sources describe fighting and casualties north and south of the river and russian units cut off after the bridge was destroyed, so as always propaganda holds some truth. But it doesnt change the fact that Russia was dealt a major blow around this river crossing.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525515616974774274

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525479358554570753

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525478568905646080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525482359411310592

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525572384878641158

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525544273378217984

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525552009331474432


----------



## LeGenD

SalarHaqq said:


> No source exists documenting 26000 Russian casualties.











Russia Bogged Down in Ukraine Amid 'Long War' Warnings - The Moscow Times


Modest gains made by Russian forces have come at the cost of losing control over other areas.




www.themoscowtimes.com













Top oligarch is secretly recorded saying Putin 'has blood cancer'


An oligarch with close ties to the Kremlin was secretly recorded suggesting Putin might have blood cancer amid on-going speculation over the Russian's health.




www.dailymail.co.uk





Widely acknowledged count = 15000+ KIA
Ukrainian sources = 26000 KIA

Kremlin is not disclosing this information in official capacity.

I am not confirming or denying anything in this case - my take is that relevant details will emerge in time.



925boy said:


> also, the maps @LeGenD is posting are showing CONSIDERABLY less Russian controlled areas than Russian forces actually control on the ground today -that source seems biased IMO.



I am not sure which maps you are consulting but the source in question is one of the best out there. I have not seen another source which provides comparably meticulous coverage and updates of the Russian - Ukraine War.

You talking about bias is ironic.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525450006513057792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525202688895590404

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524975561793277958

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525184288668393472

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## fallschirmjager786

Just some random youtubers take on whats going on, but its still interesting to listen to.

The amount of copium from Russian supporters here is off the charts. Just listen to Putin's speech, no mention of war, no mention of hey look we captured Kherson, Mariuopol, etc. They got their asses kicked near Kiev where their elite units, the VDV and Guards units were mauled and destroyed. They got kicked near Sumy, and now they have already been driven back to their own border near Kharkiv and towards Belgorad opening up their flanks to attack from the Ukrainians.

Their encirclement is turning into a encirclement for them. The US howitzers will outrange the Russian artillery and already their supply lines are exposed. Seems to me even the Russians don't know what they want, they keep shifting the goals soo much. Looks to me again, they were living in some fantasy land where the war was over in 3 days and once that plan went to shit, they are just playing by ear.

As for Ukrainian casualties, i am sure they are taking a beating, but again, they have all the advantages, they have fall back positions, entrenchments and kill zones prepared. They have only given up areas where everything has been destroyed and falling back into pre-prepared positions to further inflict casualties on the attackers. 

Should be interesting to see what happens when even more Western equipment gets into Ukrainian hands.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524715218730897408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525236954752761869

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## SalarHaqq

LeGenD said:


> Widely acknowledged count = 15000+ KIA



By (pro-)western sources essentially. But concrete evidence wasn't provided.



LeGenD said:


> Kremlin is not disclosing this information in official capacity.



Russia has published casualty figures at least twice since the beginning of the conflict. According to the first link shared, the latest number announced by Moscow is of 1351 killed in action, although this dates back to a few weeks already. Their next announcement should be made soon.

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## fallschirmjager786

SalarHaqq said:


> By (pro-)western sources essentially. But concrete evidence wasn't provided.
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has published casualty figures at least twice since the beginning of the conflict. According to the first link shared, the last number announced by Moscow is of 1351 killed in action, although this dates back to a few weeks already. Their next announcement should be made soon.



They will not be releasing casualty figures anytime soon.


----------



## Primus

fallschirmjager786 said:


> They will not be releasing casualty figures anytime soon.


Neither side will


----------



## fallschirmjager786

Huffal said:


> Neither side will


No doubt the Ukrainians have likely suffered large casualties as well. They also have the added civilian deaths.


----------



## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524715218730897408
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525236954752761869


Source = Media … Must be true then, comming from some Twitter account. Why are you spreading this nonsense?


----------



## SalarHaqq

11 May, 2022 21:32 
Ukraine targeted children with TB plot – Russia​*Moscow insists Kiev handed out counterfeit money infected with tuberculosis to children in a village in the Lugansk People’s Republic in 2020*
​Moscow has claimed that Ukraine tried to infect the population of the Russia-aligned Lugansk People’s Republic with tuberculosis (TB) and allowed the US government to carry out human experiments at Kharkov’s psychiatric wards.

During a briefing on the findings of the Russian Defense Ministry’s investigation into the purportedly US-funded bioweapon labs in Ukraine, Chief of Russia’s Radioactive, Chemical, and Biological Protection Forces Lieutenant General Igor Kirillov claimed that Russian forces had obtained evidence suggesting Kiev attempted to infect residents of the Slavyanoserbsk district of the Lugansk People’s Republic (LPR) with a highly pathogenic strain of tuberculosis in 2020.

_“Leaflets made in the form of counterfeit banknotes were infected with the causative agent of tuberculosis and distributed among minors in the village of Stepovoe,”_ Kirillov said, adding that the organizers of this crime took into account the behavior of children, which includes _“putting things in their mouth”_ and handling food without washing their hands.

Kirillov stated that the results of the bacteriological studies confirmed the resistance of the isolated bacteria found on the leaflets to first and second line anti-TB drugs, which meant that the disease caused by them was much more difficult and expensive to treat.

He went on to quote the conclusion of the Lugansk Republican Sanitary and Epidemiological station, which stated that _“the infection of the banknotes was most likely artificial, since the material contains extremely dangerous strains of the pathogen in a concentration that can ensure infection and the development of the tuberculosis process.”_

Kirillov added that the LPR TB dispensary also noted signs of _“deliberate, man-made contamination of leaflets with biomaterials of high pathogenicity.”_

Russian officials also claimed that the Pentagon had been allegedly conducting _“inhumane”_ experiments on the patients of at least two psychiatric institutions in Kharkov._ “The main category of experimental subjects was a group of male, highly physically exhausted patients aged between 40 to 60 years,”_ Kirillov said.

The experiments were run directly by foreign specialists that had arrived in Ukraine through third-party nations to conceal the US’ involvement. The specialists were abruptly evacuated from the country earlier this year, shortly before the Russian military operation kicked off, Kirillov noted.

_“In January 2022, the foreign citizens who conducted the experiments were urgently evacuated, and the equipment and drugs they used were taken to the western regions of Ukraine,”_ he said.
 
Last week, the head of Russia’s Investigative Committee, Alexander Bastrykin, told RT that the service had _“clearly identified”_ multiple Americans involved in the military biological research in Ukraine, including Pentagon employees, as well as companies closely associated with the US military. According to Russian estimates, Washington poured more than $224 million into biological research in the country between 2005 and early 2022, Bastrykin stated.

US officials have confirmed the existence of _“biological research facilities”_ in Ukraine, but said Washington only provided what they called _“assistance”_ for efforts that did not involve the development of bioweapons.

Russia attacked the neighboring state in late February, following Ukraine’s failure to implement the terms of the Minsk agreements, first signed in 2014, and Moscow’s eventual recognition of the Donbass republics of Donetsk and Lugansk. The German- and French-brokered protocols were designed to give the breakaway regions special status within the Ukrainian state.

The Kremlin has since demanded that Ukraine officially declare itself a neutral country that will never join the US-led NATO military bloc. Kiev insists the Russian offensive was completely unprovoked and has denied claims it was planning to retake the two republics by force.









Ukraine targetted children with TB plot – Russia


Russia has accused Ukraine of attempting to infect the people of Lugansk with tuberculosis and carrying out experiments on the mentally ill




rt.netblogpro.com

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## The SC

MeFishToo said:


> Source = Media … Must be true then, comming from some Twitter account. Why are you spreading this nonsense?


Ask twitter not me..
If that guy was fake, twitter would have banned him.. don't you think so? .. Or should we only see and hear one side of the story like you and believe in it without seeing and hearing the other side..
If you're that biased you'll never be a good rational judge ..not even within yourself..

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## Abid123

Shakuni Mama said:


> Asia is more than half of the population with three nuclear power states.


Asia has 6 nuclear power states:

Russia
China
Pakistan 
India
North Korea
Israel


----------



## Primus

fallschirmjager786 said:


> No doubt the Ukrainians have likely suffered large casualties as well. They also have the added civilian deaths.


Give it several years, the truth will come out. Until then, enjoy propaganda i guess


----------



## MeFishToo

SalarHaqq said:


> By (pro-)western sources essentially. But concrete evidence wasn't provided.
> 
> 
> 
> Russia has published casualty figures at least twice since the beginning of the conflict. According to the first link shared, the last number announced by Moscow is of 1351 killed in action, although this dates back to a few weeks already. Their next announcement should be made soon.


A few weeks back .. The Russian number of 1351 is from March 25.
The russian soldiers are from poor desolated areas where everybody trust or fear the regime, and doesnt question authorities. So far it has been easy for Putin to decieve the russian population. But eventually the population from the larger cities in the western parts of russia are going acknowlegde what is really going on and will have to accept responsibility.

Ukrainian witnesses telling about russian soldiers describing ukrainians as rich because their houses are made of bricks and they own a washing machine.. How far beyond the Ural mountains do the russian military recruite these people?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525452441248010242

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> Ask twitter not me..
> If that guy was fake, twitter would have banned him.. don't you think so? .. Or should we only see and hear one side of the story like you and believe in it without seeing and hearing the other side..
> If you're that biased you'll never be a good rational judge ..not even within yourself..


So you basically trust anything posted on twitter. Why not some absurd stories about Russia?.. Because it doesnt fit your agenda. And you are telling me I am biased..

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## LeGenD

Repository thread is updated.






Repository of journalistic sources and how to use them with Russia - Ukraine War in focus and Fact-checking considerations


Dear members, Some members complain about the issue of reporting bias (and propaganda) in journalistic contents. These complaints were noticed in the following thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/ This thread is created to address the...



defence.pk





1. Section (PROFESSIONAL COVERAGE OF THE RUSSIA - UKRAINE WAR) is revisited.
2. New subsection (NOTABLE RUSSIAN EQUIPMENT LOSSES) is added.
3. New section (NOTABLE BATTLES OF THE RUSSIA - UKRAINE WAR) is added.

Previous updates for reference:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Repository thread is updated and expanded with new sections. https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/repository-of-journalistic-sources-and-how-to-use-them-with-russia-ukraine-war-in-focus-and-fact-checking-considerations.736909/ 1. Causes of Russia - Ukraine War are identified and documented -...



defence.pk


----------



## Wergeland

MeFishToo said:


> Source = Media … Must be true then, comming from some Twitter account. Why are you spreading this nonsense?



Well atleast its more reliable then CNN 



MeFishToo said:


> A few weeks back .. The Russian number of 1351 is from March 25.
> The russian soldiers are from poor desolated areas where everybody trust or fear the regime, and doesnt question authorities. So far it has been easy for Putin to decieve the russian population. But eventually the population from the larger cities in the western parts of russia are going acknowlegde what is really going on and will have to accept responsibility.
> 
> Ukrainian witnesses telling about russian soldiers describing ukrainians as rich because their houses are made of bricks and they own a washing machine.. How far beyond the Ural mountains do the russian military recruite these people?



What makes you come up with this kinda nonsensical babble?

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## MeFishToo

Wergeland said:


> Well atleast its more reliable then CNN


Would you care to explain why some random made up story on a twitter account is more reliable than CNN?. Let me guess - youve fallen for the russian agenda. Flood the internet and media with lies and propaganda to the extend that nothing can be trusted, hence anything that fits your agenda is the truth and anything else can be ignored.


----------



## Wergeland

MeFishToo said:


> Would you care to explain why some random made up story on a twitter account is more reliable than CNN?. Let me guess - youve fallen for the russian agenda. Flood the internet and media with lies and propaganda to the extend that nothing can be trusted, hence anything that fits your agenda is the truth and anything else can be ignored.



Here we go.
I knew it would come.

Alright i fell for Russian propaganda, you got me. I surrender
But What makes you sure so that YOU yourselv did not fall for MSM propganda like a sheeple?

Yes. Random twitter account is sometime more reliable than CNN. If i wanna know the official line i go there and BBC. I like many other, am on twitter for more diverse and opensource reporting. If someone on PDF cant handle that, theyre always welcome to switch right back to MSM.

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## ckf

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Would you stop posting off-topic smokescreens in this Ukraine thread. The shortage has to do a with a recall from a contaminated Abbott factory in Michigan and nothing to do with Ukraine. Abbott is the one paying for the fixing not the US taxpayer and it only severely affects 8 out of 50 states. The inventory can be reshuffled.


The point is Washington does not have answers to baby formula shortage, and the recalls were issued two month of ago. Biden's administration can print $40 Billion for Ukraine but does not have the money to help American mothers. Asking Abbott alone to end this logistic logjam is unrealistic and completely missed the point if you are a mother in one of those 8 states. The point is "what is American interest" is still in debate since current Administration is really out of touch with reality. Democrats likely be facing landslide defeat in the mid term election and maybe we can have some answers to runaway inflation and yes, baby formula shortage matters to voters in those 8 states. The $40 Billion for Ukraine will only last 6 month in the Ukraine conflict because most of the money will be going to US defense + CIA contractors and offshore slush funds (congress friends) with very little oversight. I doubt GOP will be writing another $40 billion next year to Ukraine. Even democrats will not be able to explain to the American people next year when another $40 billion aid will be needed for Ukraine.

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## MeFishToo

Wergeland said:


> Here we go.
> I knew it would come.
> 
> Alright i fell for Russian propaganda, you got me. I surrender
> But What makes you sure so that YOU yourselv did not fall for MSM propganda like a sheeple?
> 
> Yes. Random twitter account is sometime more reliable than CNN. If i wanna know the official line i go there and BBC. I like many other, am on twitter for more diverse and opensource reporting. If someone on PDF cant handle that, theyre always welcome to switch right back to MSM.


I never said I was using CNN or MSN. I was asking you to explain why some random twitter account was more reliable than a company with actual reporters in the field.


----------



## WotTen

MeFishToo said:


> Would you care to explain why some random made up story on a twitter account is more reliable than CNN?.



CNN is a joke. I don't know what reputation it has in Europe but, in the US, it is called the Clinton News Network because it is so openly biased.

Fox News is also biased. Basically all MSM have given up any pretence of objectivity and people go the media channel that reinforces their beliefs.

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## SalarHaqq

MeFishToo said:


> A few weeks back .. The Russian number of 1351 is from March 25.



Russia will update the figure at a time of her choosing. But if this takes place shortly, in all logic the updated number might be below or close to 2500 or 3000.



MeFishToo said:


> The russian soldiers are from poor desolated areas where everybody trust or fear the regime, and doesnt question authorities. So far it has been easy for Putin to decieve the russian population. But eventually the population from the larger cities in the western parts of russia are going acknowlegde what is really going on and will have to accept responsibility.



Not sure what responsibility you're referring to, but compared to the average western regime the Russian government has continuously earned itself stronger approval rates, rates which increased again to exceed 70% since the start of the military intervention in Ukraine. I find no reason why this should change in the foreseeable future.



MeFishToo said:


> Ukrainian witnesses telling about russian soldiers describing ukrainians as rich because their houses are made of bricks and they own a washing machine.. How far beyond the Ural mountains do the russian military recruite these people?



What are such random anecdotes supposed to prove? And I wonder what country this is, where the bulk of the armed forces consists of wealthier citizens? Certainly that country isn't located in the west. A considerable percentage of ordinary rank soldiers in the US army cite the pay as their prime motivation for joining the military.

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## Paul2

Oldman1 said:


> Russians retreating from Kharkiv is very telling, they didn't have enough men to reinforce or those troops were not motivated to stay. Read the Russians are going to use troops from Syria to make up the losses.



And they are getting more, and more troops in a smaller, and smaller territory, making them area targets.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525572675283914754


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525551940804943874

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525551118058668032

Reactions: Like Like:
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## MeFishToo

SalarHaqq said:


> Russia will update the figure at a time of her choosing. But if this takes place very soon, in all logic the updated number might be below or close to 3000.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what responsibility you're referring to, but compared to western regimes the Russian government has had continuously better approval rates, approval rates which increased again to exceed 70% since the start of the military intervention in Ukraine. I find no reason why this should change in the foreseeable future.
> 
> 
> 
> What are such random anecdotes supposed to prove? And I wonder what country this is, where the wealthier segments of citizenry are making up the bulk of the armed forces? Certainly that country isn't located in the west. A considerable percentage of lower ranking soldiers in the US army cite the pay as their prime motivation for joining the military.


Eventually the somewhat enlightend part of Russia is going to be affected by the war in Ukraine, and they wont be able to excuse themself with being apolical or pretending being delusional. I was hoping Putin was declaring mobilisation, forcing the apolitical russian middle class to send its children off to Ukraine.
The approval rates in a defacto dictatorship is worthless. Most people disaproving simply refuse to participate. It doesnt tell us anything.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525547578741477378

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525557064176648205


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Spoiler: Dead Ukrainian Troops





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525546429074350081




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525520877034651649


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525516360834498561


The Russian Army is a pathetic one to say the least.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525502430875734017


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525557064176648205





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525502267289489408


----------



## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525502430875734017



The Afghan people lost, not the US military. 

You see the difference today for a people that fight for their country(Ukrainians ) and ones that won’t (Afghans).

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525516360834498561
> 
> 
> The Russian Army is a pathetic one to say the least.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525489001498562560


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525477748382236673

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> The Afghan people lost, not the US military.
> 
> You see the difference today for a people that fight for their country(Ukrainians ) and ones that won’t (Afghans).



You really believe the propaganda nonsense that you're putting out. Without any power assisting them with guided anti-tank weapons, artilleries, drones, and fighter jets, the Afghan people defeated the NATO alliance. That is a fact that you can't escape from. The US and NATO were forced to negotiate with the same Taliban that they were trying to uproot to the point where that same organization is the government in Afghanistan today. And that is what Congressman Matt Gaetz acknowledged.

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## wahhab0202

F-22Raptor said:


> The Afghan people lost, not the US military.
> 
> You see the difference today for a people that fight for their country(Ukrainians ) and ones that won’t (Afghans).


The Afghan people won, they kick invaders out of their land. Now, they will decide for themself where to go without external intervention.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525581470886158337

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525567666068529160

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You really believe the propaganda nonsense that you're putting out. Without any power assisting them with guided anti-tank weapons, artilleries, drones, and fighter jets, the Afghan people defeated the NATO alliance. That is a fact that you can't escape from. The US and NATO were forced to negotiate with the same Taliban that they were trying to uproot to the point where that same organization is the government in Afghanistan today. And that is what Congressman Matt Gaetz acknowledged.




The US could have stayed in Afghanistan till the end of time. It left because it no longer wanted to hold the hands of the Afghan people. The Afghan people lost. The US also achieved its objective of annihilating Al Qaeda. 

The Afghans lost because they won’t fight for their future. They’d rather live in backwardness. 

Ukrainians on the other hand, choose freedom and advancement as a country, rather than being subjugated by the backwards Russians.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525636978305249281

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525586429740474376


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525632361202716672

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## F-22Raptor

*The Ukrainian destruction of significant elements of a Russian motorized rifle brigade that tried to cross a pontoon bridge over the Siverskyi Donets River on May 11 has shocked prominent Russian milbloggers. Those bloggers have begun commenting on the incompetence of the Russian military to their hundreds of thousands of followers. *The attempted river crossing showed a stunning lack of tactical sense as satellite images show (destroyed) Russian vehicles tightly bunched up at both ends of the (destroyed) bridge, clearly allowing Ukrainian artillerymen to kill hundreds and destroy scores of vehicles with concentrated strikes. The milbloggers who have hitherto been cheering on the Russian military criticized Russian armed forces leadership for failing to learn from experience in the war. They also expressed the concern that the constant pushing of Russia’s propaganda lines was making it hard for them to understand what was actually going on.

The effects of this change in tone and discourse by these milbloggers are uncertain but could be potent. People living under tightly censored regimes often trust individuals who seem to be independent of but generally aligned with the government more than the government line (even more than do citizens of democratic societies). The commentary by these widely read milbloggers may fuel burgeoning doubts in Russia about Russia’s prospects in this war and the competence of Russia’s military leaders (at least).

The destruction of the motorized rifle elements may also severely disrupt Russian efforts to isolate Severodonetsk and Lysychansk from the north. Russian troops made no attempts to advance in that area in the last 24 hours.






Institute for the Study of War


The Ukrainian destruction of significant elements of a Russian motorized rifle brigade that tried to cross a pontoon bridge over the Siverskyi Donets River on May 11 has shocked prominent Russian milbloggers. Those bloggers have begun commenting on the




www.understandingwar.org


----------



## WotTen

Ukraine won the EuroVision song contest.

Wow, who could have predicted that!

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525607476896276480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525484459889508352

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## CAPRICORN-88

Putin opines sanctions hurting West more than Russia​Russian President Vladimir Putin said Western countries were worse hit by sanctions by looking at the 20% sharp rise of inflation in Europe.


Agence France-Presse
12-05-2022 18:55
in World News

Russian President Vladimir Putin said Thursday Western countries were worse hit by sanctions imposed on Moscow over Ukraine than Russia, which he insists has been resilient in the face of “external challenges”.


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## CAPRICORN-88

After the initial setback due to a failed river crossing at Seversky Donetsk, it seems the Russian and allies have finally succeeded in the crossing. 

Their forces are now heading towards *Rubizhe, Bilohorivka, the Lysychansk Bakhmut highway.* 

The Ukrainian forces has retreated from many of the settlements they occupied earlier on.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525448876450258946


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## ckf

F-22Raptor said:


> The US could have stayed in Afghanistan till the end of time. It left because it no longer wanted to hold the hands of the Afghan people. The Afghan people lost. The US also achieved its objective of annihilating Al Qaeda.
> 
> The Afghans lost because they won’t fight for their future. They’d rather live in backwardness.
> 
> Ukrainians on the other hand, choose freedom and advancement as a country, rather than being subjugated by the backwards Russians.


How is Russians that much backward to Americans when Russian owns and build half of the international space station. That's BS. US was printing $200 million a day to finance Afghan occupation. Afghan poor lost, but a lot of Afghans got rich of the Americans. One of the reason US stayed in Afghanistan was to train Uyghurs/xinjing rebellions, and establish potential base to infiltrate Xinjiang. When China cracked down on the border and anniliated CIA networks/Uyghurs congress, Afghanistan lost its purpose. Ukraine on the other hand is truly backward and corrupt. Zelensky and his handlers have been easily bribed by the US, and essentially led their people to suffer through this war. All war takes two party to tangle, Now US funding a $200 million a day Proxy war in Ukraine to destabilize Russia, lets see how long that last with hyper inflation in US and Europe hitting the fan.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525409295398973440


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## CAPRICORN-88

The problem with the Russian is despite all the propaganda issued by the Ukrainian side, they have not or sparsely rebuked any of the Ukrainian claims.

The Russian reports although short, are more in compliance to those of a professional army.

While the Ukrainian Army makes up of mainly ill trained conscripts and aged reservists hence the chaotic and undisciplined situation.

We heard Zalensky a non military person personally ordering the disastrous attack on Snake Island against his army advice.

That is why I choose to believe more in reports arising out of Russia. IMO more plausible.

But the accompanying events indicated to us which direction the war is heading.

Example. If the Ukrainian are winning the war, why is German Olaf Scholtz or Lloyd Austin, the US Secretary of Defense suddenly and simultaneously calling his Russian counterpart Sorgoi asking for a ceasefire.

Does not make any sense after the US despatched and dumped billions of dollarsworth of arms in Ukraine and the Ukrainian AZOV neo-NAZI forces are winning.

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## CAPRICORN-88

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> The problem with the Russian is despite all the propaganda issued by the Ukrainian side, they have not or sparsely rebuked any of the Ukrainian claims.
> 
> The Russian reports although short, are more in compliance to those of a professional army.
> 
> While the Ukrainian Army makes up of many ill trained conscripts and aged reservists hence the chaotic and undisciplined situation.
> 
> We heard Zalensky a non military person personally ordering the disastrous attack on Snake Island against his army advice.
> 
> That is why I choose to believe more in reports arising out of Russia. IMO more plausible.
> 
> But the accompanying events indicated to us which direction the war is heading.
> 
> Example. If the Ukrainian are winning the war, why is German Olaf Scholtz and Lloyd Austin, the US Secretary of Defense suddenly calling his Russian counterpart Sorgoi asking for a ceasefire.
> 
> Does not make any sense after the US despatched and dumped billions of dollarsworth of arms in Ukraine and the Ukrainian AZOV neo-NAZI forces are winning.


My conclusion is the Ukrainian side is not doing as great as they propagate.

As I constantly say, disinformation does not win a real war.

Now Ben Wallace, the UK Defense Secretary is appealing for more Soviet era weapons to suppy to Ukraine.

The ill trained Ukrainian army can't handled the newer US supplied weapons and they are falling into the hands of tge DNR LNR militia intact.

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## wahhab0202

F-22Raptor said:


> The US could have stayed in Afghanistan till the end of time. It left because it no longer wanted to hold the hands of the Afghan people. The Afghan people lost. The US also achieved its objective of annihilating Al Qaeda.
> 
> The Afghans lost because they won’t fight for their future. They’d rather live in backwardness.
> 
> Ukrainians on the other hand, choose freedom and advancement as a country, rather than being subjugated by the backwards Russians.


they want but they can't. they have minimum support from the people of Afghan. it is no wonder, they don't understand afghans well enough to get a sufficient support from the people. And that is where Taliban 2.0 is better than US.

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## Hamartia Antidote

ckf said:


> The point is Washington does not have answers to baby formula shortage, and the recalls were issued two month of ago. Biden's administration can print $40 Billion for Ukraine but does not have the money to help American mothers. Asking Abbott alone to end this logistic logjam is unrealistic and completely missed the point if you are a mother in one of those 8 states. The point is "what is American interest" is still in debate since current Administration is really out of touch with reality.



Well we can simply do what the Chinese did when this happened to them. Have scores of people sent all over the world to clear off other countries shelves of baby formula instead of fixing the problem. (Which they also did to the world's N95 mask supply back in 2020).

We should just send people to major Chinese cities to clear their shelves. Problem solved!





Australia





Chinese Parents Snatch Up Baby Formula Globally​


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

In failing to acknowledge the battle against the Russian is not doing so well, the UK government has now resorted to even sanctioning Putin's daughter from his previous marriage who has been living in UK for decades.

Presumingly to personally applying pressure or threatened Putin using his family tie.

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## ckf

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Well we can simply do what the Chinese did when this happened to them. Have scores of people sent all over the world to clear off other countries shelves of baby formula instead of fixing the problem. (Which they also did to the world's N95 mask supply back in 2020).
> 
> We should just send people to major Chinese cities to clear their shelves. Problem solved!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Australia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese Parents Snatch Up Baby Formula Globally​


Lol, blame the chinaman for all the problems of America, typical white trash talk.

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## jhungary

ckf said:


> The point is Washington does not have answers to baby formula shortage, and the recalls were issued two month of ago. Biden's administration can print $40 Billion for Ukraine but does not have the money to help American mothers. Asking Abbott alone to end this logistic logjam is unrealistic and completely missed the point if you are a mother in one of those 8 states. The point is "what is American interest" is still in debate since current Administration is really out of touch with reality. Democrats likely be facing landslide defeat in the mid term election and maybe we can have some answers to runaway inflation and yes, baby formula shortage matters to voters in those 8 states. The $40 Billion for Ukraine will only last 6 month in the Ukraine conflict because most of the money will be going to US defense + CIA contractors and offshore slush funds (congress friends) with very little oversight. I doubt GOP will be writing another $40 billion next year to Ukraine. Even democrats will not be able to explain to the American people next year when another $40 billion aid will be needed for Ukraine.


It's harder than you think.

The production of baby formula is very delicate, it's not something you throw money at it and you can multiple their production. It needed a lot of certification to have the production ramp up, this is not normal dairy production, and normal dairy production already have a very stringent rules

Put together the people (Not just Chinese) buying them and selling them back to the Chinese on Higher Price, which mean people who don't have kids would still buy them to trade for profit. It took 4 years from 2015 to 2019 to have the production stabilised. 2 months would not solve anything. And even today. Some local supermarket still have 2 tins per customer limit to deter people from buying unless you really needed it.

Here are an article back in 2015 about Baby Formula shortage









Behind Australia’s baby formula shortage


The extreme shortage of baby formula in Australia’s supermarkets, which has sparked panic and outrage among parents, has been blamed on China’s huge online shopping event, ‘Singles Day’.




au.finance.yahoo.com





Here is an article back in 2018 about the limitation still in place









Why desperate parents are sending pleading letters to Woolworths about their babies.


It's an issue that won't go away.




www.mamamia.com.au





Just be glad this does not happen to you.......


----------



## ckf

jhungary said:


> It's harder than you think.
> 
> The production of baby formula is very delicate, it's not something you throw money at it and you can multiple their production. It needed a lot of certification to have the production ramp up, this is not normal dairy production, and normal dairy production already have a very stringent rules
> 
> Put together the people (Not just Chinese) buying them and selling them back to the Chinese on Higher Price, which mean people who don't have kids would still buy them to trade for profit. It took 4 years from 2015 to 2019 to have the production stabilised. 2 months would not solve anything. And even today. Some local supermarket still have 2 tins per customer limit to deter people from buying unless you really needed it.
> 
> Here are an article back in 2015 about Baby Formula shortage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Behind Australia’s baby formula shortage
> 
> 
> The extreme shortage of baby formula in Australia’s supermarkets, which has sparked panic and outrage among parents, has been blamed on China’s huge online shopping event, ‘Singles Day’.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> au.finance.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is an article back in 2018 about the limitation still in place
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why desperate parents are sending pleading letters to Woolworths about their babies.
> 
> 
> It's an issue that won't go away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mamamia.com.au


Too many excuses about yada yada and blaming everyone else for today's problem on blah blah blah. US can print 40 billion US dollars to pay off all the defense companies, but can't get baby formula to newborn mothers. What a great country US has become.

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## jhungary

ckf said:


> Too many excuses about yada yada and blaming everyone else for today's problem on blah blah blah. US can print 40 billion US dollars to pay off all the defense companies, but can't get baby formula to newborn mothers. What a great country US has become.


First, you do realise average Australian are richer than average American, right? And it take us 4 years to fix this.

Second this is not about mother did not have enough money to buy baby formula, had this been the case, your point have some validity. This is about supply problem. J*ust because you put money in it does not mean they can have more than 24 hours a day and 7 days a week production. And new Production line is not going to set up in 2 months.*

Otherwise it just show you have no idea on topic and repeating stupid comment like a broken recorder.


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## Hack-Hook

Viet said:


> No, it’s different routes.
> The weapons come via lands.
> Ukraine exports grains mostly via seas.
> The EU now trying to get 25 million grains out via land routes.


If they can import from lands they also can export through the same route

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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> If they can import from lands they also can export through the same route


Yea, but not in the same quantity. It also take up trucks that they need to put weapon to the frontline.


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## Hack-Hook

jhungary said:


> Yea, but not in the same quantity. It also take up trucks that they need to put weapon to the frontline.


The trucks that come to Ukraine had to go back to Poland and Romania why send them back empty


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## jhungary

Hack-Hook said:


> The trucks that come to Ukraine had to go back to Poland and Romania why send them back empty


Not the truck that go between Ukraine to Poland. It's the truck that goes from Lviv to Eastern Front. You need truck to move supply from Lviv or Kyiv to Eastern area. Sure, you can run empty and pick up cargo to and from Poland or Romania when they run back to Lviv, but then if you do that you take 8 or 10 hours of time for them to go between Lviv to Poland before returning to Lviv to pick up those weapon and go to the front.

Either that or you set aside some truck dedicated to go between Poland/Romania to Lviv or Kyiv, which will take away your logistic capability to the front line.


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## ckf

jhungary said:


> First, you do realise average Australian are richer than average American, right? And it take us 4 years to fix this.
> 
> Second this is not about mother did not have enough money to buy baby formula, had this been the case, your point have some validity. This is about supply problem. J*ust because you put money in it does not mean they can have more than 24 hours a day and 7 days a week production. And new Production line is not going to set up in 2 months.*
> 
> Otherwise it just show you have no idea on topic and repeating stupid comment like a broken recorder.



There's too much assumption in your thread pretending the US problems are the same as Australian issues 5 years ago. How do you know US needs new production line when its a recall issue? Canada also has excess manufacturing capacity and CSA can be imported into US. Another unique issue for the US is hording by Amazon resellers at much higher prices. If Biden administration doesn't understand, I am sure you are clueless as well. That's not an attack on you, this is a complex dilemma. 









Biden defends response to baby formula shortage as complaints grow, probes planned


Biden told reporters Friday his administration "moved as quickly as the problem became apparent to us."




abcnews.go.com

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## ahtan_china



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## jhungary

ckf said:


> There's too much assumption in your thread pretending the US problems are the same as Australian issues 5 years ago. How do you know US needs new production line when its a recall issue? Canada also has excess manufacturing capacity and CSA can be imported into US. Another unique issue for the US is hording by Amazon resellers at much higher prices. If Biden administration doesn't understand, I am sure you are clueless as well. That's not an attack on you, this is a complex dilemma.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biden defends response to baby formula shortage as complaints grow, probes planned
> 
> 
> Biden told reporters Friday his administration "moved as quickly as the problem became apparent to us."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abcnews.go.com


Dude, Free market.

Baby Formula production is NOT NATIONALISED. Which mean it have to depend on the company to make move. This is not a logistic problem you can solved by putting more money in USPS. Biden cannot force or buy formula from Canada, Mexico or the UK. They can release the import limit (Which they have already done by releasing 43% of import limit), but whether or not Canadian Firm want to sell those formula or Abbot wanted Canadian help is not up to the government. It's not like Biden or his administration can strap billions of dollars and go to Canadian Costco or IGA and wipe the stock there and bring it to US.

How do you know US needed new Production Line? You throw out literally all the stocks in that 2 months period and there are nothing to replace it, the last time another country have this problem is China when their tainted plant causing the entire production of their formula tainted and killing a few babies, that problem *WASN'T* solved even today and it is decade old, that's why people still buying formula overseas and into China.

This is not as simple as you think, just throw out the old stock and make new one. First of all, their entire production have to shut down to see what's wrong with the production line that tainted the baby formula, it take time to investigate and ratified the problem before they can put it back in, then they need to replace all stock, and with 2 months stock that mean even if you have surge capacity you need 2 extra months production time to back fil the stock, and while you are backfilling the stock, you have to produce new stock to satisfy the need now. That is assuming they have the capability to fill the stock with surge and not needed extra production line.

New stock and fill up are not going to make it overnight, or magically appear in shelve after production line shut down, just because you pour money at it does not make whatever making the tainted baby formula go away, nor make them make those formula faster. That is physical thing you need to fix before you try to get back to production level. Let alone the testing and quality control are going to take longer than before to ensure the product are normal.

But sure, all these complex procedure took time is obviously went over your tiny brain.


----------



## DF41

SalarHaqq said:


> Where is he claiming to have masterminded the attacks of September 11, 2001?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm blind or ignorant, professional journalists from some of the west's most famed mainstream media are blind or ignorant, of course.


It occured to you their blindness deliberately self inflicted?

What is even worse is that they want to blind the world to what is obviously very clear.

Vast amount of atrocities in Ukraine done by Nazis, clearly and flaunting Nazi insignias, there on their own people.

Lead by chief conductor NED with tentacles into social media and even into forums, orchestrating a gang rape on Russia.

*That as precursor , to be follow by gang rape on China*

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525559457001922560


----------



## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525551286841655299
💪💪💪🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺🤣🤣🤣

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## jhungary

ckf said:


> Europeans think American's are their friends, that's a dangerous proposition.
> 
> Calm down tiny man.... Here's a list of issues facing the Biden Administration. Just saying this is a supply issue doesn't help anybody, all that blah blah blah, says nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> America is running out of baby formula because 3 companies control the market
> 
> 
> “There's plenty of blame to go around here,” says one expert.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fortune.com


You rather US took those things and Nationalise it?

Chinese government nationalise those production plant, and one single problem happened, then bam, 10 years later, they are still buying Australian import for 400-500 RMB. Literally they are buying a stuff that cost A$13 in local Woolworths for A$100. You want that instead??

And thanks you for your concern, now F'off back to whatever hell hole you came from Canada. What we spend on our money is our business, we like to F Russia with 40 billions even if our American mother goes without baby formula, is this your concern? CANADIAN blah blah blahing with an American Issue says nothing.


----------



## DF41

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> After the initial setback due to a failed river crossing at Seversky Donetsk, it seems the Russian and allies have finally succeeded in the crossing.
> 
> Their forces are now heading towards *Rubizhe, Bilohorivka, the Lysychansk Bakhmut highway.*
> 
> The Ukrainian forces has retreated from many of the settlements they occupied earlier on.

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## Apollon

thetutle said:


> Why?



Because she did stand for nothing and followed newspaper polls. Ending nuclear power and making fossil fuels expendive led germany to energy shortness. Her migrant politics in 2015 were desaster which created a powerful neo nazi party.


Her politics were outright retarded



Shakuni Mama said:


> Which Century ? Listen we are not living in Past. You are boasting about the same thing which Turks boast about Ottoman or Persians about something. What are you up to today ? Nothing, Nada, Zilch ? Living on borrowed money, Someone saving you one way or other for your utter failures and here you are talking like a spokesperson of NATO financed by Greece.
> 
> I am also against this invasion but I am not talking about which we cannot do as an Individual. The way you thugs of few nations made NATO and carried out one invasion after another, trust me you would be knocked out by someone and that too far away from your shores. Whatever you tiny pot countries has something called Army we can arrange 10 times of that in a day. Only thing is that we are not thugs like you else we from Asia is more than half of the population with three nuclear power states.
> 
> Call it a day and meet on some other thread as it is meant for Russia and Ukraine War.



Well we conquered India...but that aside. Greece does not live in borrowed money. We paid back the last tranche this year. 

NATO also carried out no invasions. You are free to lisg invasions NATO carried out. Go on tell.


And today Greece protects Europe from migrants.


You know what you should arrange? Functional sanitary and hygienic infrastructure for your people . Thats your problem, not world politics

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## Viet

That’s a stark statement.

Annalena Baerbock, Germany foreign minister, says in Kiev, Germany will reduce dependency on Russia fossil fuels to zero.
Forever.
Well, she dislikes North stream 2, dislikes the dictator system Russia from the beginning.










Baerbock in Kiew: Deutschland wird "für immer" auf russische Energie verzichten


Außenministerin Annalena Baerbock erklärt während ihres Besuchs in Kiew, dass Deutschland "für immer" auf russische Energie verzichten werde.




www.stern.de


----------



## Soldier35

An attempt by Ukrainian soldiers to shoot down a Russian plane with MANPADS






The Russian army stopped the APU's attempt to cross the river. The battle unfolded on the Seversky Donets River, presumably near the village of Petrovskoye, where the Ukrainian army created a pontoon crossing and tried to cross the river. Russian motorized skirmishers engaged in battle and adjusted artillery fire on the guided crossing and the AFU equipment sheltering in the forest. As a result of the battle, the ferry was destroyed and drowned. The Ukrainian troops who managed to cross were destroyed by artillery fire.






Combat operations of Russian airborne units in Ukraine. The personnel conducts offensive battles in Ukraine and destroys enemy firing points. The assault on enemy strongholds of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is carried out with the fire support of mortar crews and crews of combat vehicles of the landing force.

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## Viet

Hack-Hook said:


> If they can import from lands they also can export through the same route


They do, however it’s easier said than done.










Press corner


Highlights, press releases and speeches




ec.europa.eu


----------



## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525477748382236673




Funny how you try to portray Russian moves as if they where somehow , your own personal achievements .

They are not.

Just to remind , your own only personal " accomplishment " , consists of obsessively coping and pasting stuff.

And while you do that . your own people are starving , thanks to Putin :


Humanitarian catastrophe is unfolding in Somalia​
After a devastating locust invasion, the negative economic effects of the COVID-19 pandemic and the ongoing drought, the war in Ukraine is worsening the situation in East Africa. In Somalia alone 6 million people face acute food insecurity, among them are 1.4 million children.






https://www.dw.com/en/humanitarian-catastrophe-is-unfolding-in-somalia/av-61802293

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## ckf

jhungary said:


> You rather US took those things and Nationalise it?
> 
> Chinese government nationalise those production plant, and one single problem happened, then bam, 10 years later, they are still buying Australian import for 400-500 RMB. Literally they are buying a stuff that cost A$13 in local Woolworths for A$100. You want that instead??
> 
> And thanks you for your concern, now F'off back to whatever hell hole you came from Canada. What we spend on our money is our business, we like to F Russia with 40 billions even if our American mother goes without baby formula, is this your concern? CANADIAN blah blah blahing with an American Issue says nothing.


Grow up bro, I don't care about Chinese government blah blah and Australian blah blah. Canadians care about issues in US because of NAFTA and NORAD. Issue in US almost always affects Canada eventually. Please stop pretending you can speak on behalf of American mother without baby formula... you dickwad typing skills means didilly all. Like Russia army care about what ever you type in this forum tinydicky.

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## jhungary

ckf said:


> Grow up bro, I don't care about Chinese government blah blah and Australian blah blah. Canadians care about issues in US because of NAFTA and NORAD. Issue in US almost always affects Canada eventually. Please stop pretending you can speak on behalf of American mother without baby formula... you dickwad typing skills means didilly all. Like Russia army care about what ever you type in this forum tinydicky.


Lol, I don't see you or Canadian contribute to the 40 bil that WE are going to send to Ukraine.

you can dick here all you want, write a love letter to Trudeau for all I care, nobody in the US care about some plucker Canadian have to say about US *DOMESTIC POLICY*. As I said, I love my tax money going to burn some Russian arse, that's my money my choice, go pay your Canadian Dollar eh, and stop asking us for free protection if you feel like it.

Well, I can speak for ALL AMERICAN IF I WANT, my US Passport and Birth Certificate said so, do you have any one of those? C-A-N-A-D-I-A-N?, so no, better luck next time T-bag


----------



## dbc

DF41 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525551286841655299
> 💪💪💪🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺🤣🤣🤣


What! no Elvis?

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## The SC

King Crimson - Epitaph​A gift for all people contributing to this thread,, no matter what side you're on .. listen, read, think and enjoy.. An old SUPER MASTERPIECE song from my youth..still valuable today..

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## ckf

jhungary said:


> Lol, I don't see you or Canadian contribute to the 40 bil that WE are going to send to Ukraine.
> 
> you can dick here all you want, write a love letter to Trudeau for all I care, nobody in the US care about some plucker Canadian have to say about US *DOMESTIC POLICY*. As I said, I love my tax money going to burn some Russian arse, that's my money my choice, go pay your Canadian Dollar eh, and stop asking us for free protection if you feel like it.
> 
> Well, I can speak for ALL AMERICAN IF I WANT, my US Passport and Birth Certificate said so, do you have any one of those? C-A-N-A-D-I-A-N?, so no, better luck next time T-bag


I certainly don't care about what you say, nobody care buddy, so shut your a hole and shove it up your butt if you want to. What ever.....

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## jhungary

ckf said:


> I certainly don't care about what you say, nobody care buddy, so shut your a hole and shove it up your butt if you want to. What ever.....


LOL alright C-A-N-A-D-I-A-N, who think he can alter how US uses its own tax money.

LOL


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## jhungary

dbc said:


> What! no Elvis?


Well, didn't you hear? they captured Biden

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525595797223616515


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## CAPRICORN-88

The simple truth is as Pentagon admitted.

Russia is the one shaping the Ukrainian war today.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525635655417704448


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## CAPRICORN-88

DF41 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525551286841655299
> 💪💪💪🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺🤣🤣🤣


*Eric Thor Olson* (born January 24, 1952) is a retired United States Navy admiral who last served as the eighth Commander, U.S. Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) from July 2, 2007 to August 8, 2011. He previously served as Deputy Commander, U.S. Special Operations Command from 2003 to July 2007. Olson was the first Navy SEAL ever to be appointed to three-star and four-star flag rank, as well as the first naval officer to be USSOCOM's combatant commander.[1] He took command from Army General Bryan D. Brown in 2007.[1] Brown and Olson had served together at the SOCOM headquarters in Tampa for four years.[1] He retired from active duty on August 22, 2011 after over 38 years of service. He relinquished command of SOCOM to Admiral William H. McRaven the same day.[2]


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> Well, didn't you hear? they captured Biden


I read Russian army is not organized in the way as the western armies do. Russia doesn’t have non commissioned officers called NCO. That may explain the failure of Russian military in real combats. Their military doctrine sucks. They rather get used to consume domestic political propaganda than how to effectively fight foreign armies. NCO is the backbone of every army. Can you shed a light?


----------



## Apollon

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525595797223616515



Russia doesnt need to capitulate. Its simply crushed into a state where it cant fight anymore. Like in Kiev and now in Kharkov

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## The SC

We have liberated the #Zarya Chemical Factory, whose industrial area is several kilometers long and wide.

Many said that the Zarya plant is the second Azovstal plant and that our fighters will not take it easily.

After giving us the green light from President Putin, our forces freed him with ease, and found very valuable Western fish inside.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525590685889581056

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## nufix

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525516360834498561
> 
> 
> The Russian Army is a pathetic one to say the least.


Didnt US tankers do this stuff as well in Iraq. I saw cars getting crushed multiple times just for scores. Were they court martialed?

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## jamahir

SQ8 said:


> That is likely the engine intake filter to keep dust and sand particles out



@Oublious is relying on some "Expat in Kyiv" who is probably the British advisor to The Kyiv Independent, that highly intellectual newspaper which gave the world the news of "500 Russian tanks destroyed in four days of the invasion" and of course the unforgettable "The ghost of Kiev".

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## gambit

ckf said:


> The point is Washington does not have answers to baby formula shortage, and the recalls were issued two month of ago. Biden's administration can print $40 Billion for Ukraine but does not have the money to help American mothers. Asking Abbott alone to end this logistic logjam is unrealistic and completely missed the point if you are a mother in one of those 8 states. The point is "what is American interest" is still in debate since current Administration is really out of touch with reality. Democrats likely be facing landslide defeat in the mid term election and maybe we can have some answers to runaway inflation and yes, baby formula shortage matters to voters in those 8 states. The $40 Billion for Ukraine will only last 6 month in the Ukraine conflict because most of the money will be going to US defense + CIA contractors and offshore slush funds (congress friends) with very little oversight. I doubt GOP will be writing another $40 billion next year to Ukraine. Even democrats will not be able to explain to the American people next year when another $40 billion aid will be needed for Ukraine.


The real point is that the baby formula shortage in the US have *NOTHING* to do with Ukraine. It is a bureaucratic incompetency issue that always plague every country at any time. What I see is that the pro-Russia people are desperate to save face for Russia and they fall back to their default position: mock the US.

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> @Oublious is relying on some "Expat in Kyiv" who is probably the British advisor to The Kyiv Independent, that highly intellectual newspaper which gave the world the news of "500 Russian tanks destroyed in four days of the invasion" and of course the unforgettable "The ghost of Kiev".



How is russia doing recently? They now lost Kharkov too. 😅

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## The SC

The systematic provocation of NATO and its expansionist goals on the borders of the Russian Federation confirms the existence of old intentions and planning for war against Russia.
This provocation and threat will not pass without a serious and strong response, and this time the response will not be as kind as what is happening in Ukraine with the neo-Nazis.
Our response will be of the scale of the event and in proportion to the threat.
@RamzanKiadyrov


Watch: Sending Chechen special forces to Ukraine to participate in the qualitative and exceptional military operations in the next stage.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525489066015326208

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## Apollon

gambit said:


> The real point is that the baby formula shortage in the US have *NOTHING* to do with Ukraine. It is a bureaucratic incompetency issue that always plague every country at any time. What I see is that the pro-Russia people are desperate to save face for Russia and they fall back to their default position: mock the US.



What is "baby formula"?


Nobody needs that shit. Its for parents too lazy to raise a kid.

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## The SC

Urgent: The Russian Foreign Ministry: Global influence has shifted to the "East" and the West must accommodate this.
@ElenaKosogorov


Russia's State Duma: Poland's anti-Russian statements will make us put it first on the waiting list after Ukraine.
@Russian_Empire8

China: The world has passed the stage of the dollar's monopoly over the global economy, and is currently entering the post-dollar stage at a very fast pace!
@Rus_Econom

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> How is russia doing recently? They now lost Kharkov too. 😅



Here, have a look at the magnificent Ukrainian military :

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525713491377762305


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## A.P. Richelieu

WotTen said:


> Ukraine won the EuroVision song contest.
> 
> Wow, who could have predicted that!


How many votes did Russia get  ?


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Here, have a look at the magnificent Ukrainian military :
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525713491377762305



Any recent pictures of the destroyed russian battalion at that river crossing? 


Its a serious problem. Hundreds of decomposing russian corpses will cause an algae bloom.

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## The SC

Chinese media:

Everything is made in China, except for the lies which are Made in USA.
@Chinanws22

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## WotTen

A.P. Richelieu said:


> How many votes did Russia get  ?



I would be surprised if it was even allowed to participate.

What a politicized joke the EuroVision has become in recent years. A far cry from the days of Abba.

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## The SC

NATO agreed to Finland's accession to the alliance.
@AydaNews


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## gambit

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You really believe the propaganda nonsense that you're putting out. Without any power assisting them with guided anti-tank weapons, artilleries, drones, and fighter jets, the Afghan people defeated the NATO alliance. That is a fact that you can't escape from. The US and NATO were forced to negotiate with the same Taliban that they were trying to uproot to the point where that same organization is the government in Afghanistan today. And that is what Congressman Matt Gaetz acknowledged.


So what this mean is that no country with a military that is above the Taliban should be afraid of the US military. The US military 'lost' in Korea, Viet Nam, and Afghanistan. Now, Russia who is supposedly a 'peer' to the US is having difficulties, if not outright losing, in Ukraine, further supporting the perception that the US military is a 'paper tiger'. Never mind Iraq. The US military is a 'loser' military. 



ckf said:


> Too many excuses about yada yada and blaming everyone else for today's problem on blah blah blah. US can print 40 billion US dollars to pay off all the defense companies, but can't get baby formula to newborn mothers. What a great country US has become.


In other words, when it comes to the technical details, you got lost.

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## gambit

Apollon said:


> What is "baby formula"?
> 
> Nobody needs that shit. Its for parents too lazy to raise a kid.


Aah..Not true. My sister-in-law needs that shit. My niece does not get enough from nursing.

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## Apollon

gambit said:


> Aah..Not true. My sister-in-law needs that shit. My niece does not get enough from nursing.



There was no "baby formula" in the past and people raised their kids anyway. 


There are substitutes and donor milk.

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## Broccoli

Lone mt-lb met it's end. Reminds me of Syrian military sending lone AFV's do things because they were running low on them. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525557064176648205

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## gambit

Apollon said:


> There was no "baby formula" in the past and people raised their kids anyway.
> 
> *There are substitutes and donor milk.*


In other words, those were the 'baby formula' of the past.

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## WotTen

gambit said:


> So what this mean is that no country with a military that is above the Taliban should be afraid of the US military. The US military 'lost' in Korea, Viet Nam, and Afghanistan. Now, Russia who is supposedly a 'peer' to the US is having difficulties, if not outright losing, in Ukraine, further supporting the perception that the US military is a 'paper tiger'. Never mind Iraq. The US military is a 'loser' military.



I think the important point is that modern wars are complicated. Few would doubt that the US military could vaporize Afghansitan, just like Russia can vaporize Ukraine, but the civilian casualties and public relations fallout would be huge.

Modern wars are fought in the media just as much as on the battlefield. Almost every country is mindful of this reality, except perhaps suicidal dictators like Kim Jong-un.

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## gambit

WotTen said:


> I think the important point is that modern wars are complicated.


As far as %99.999 of the people here, the US 'lost' in Korea, Viet Nam, and Afghanistan. That make the US military a 'loser' military. Of course, those %99.999 are nothing more than 'sofa soldiers' and their main interests is to mock US. They would *NEVER* risk a scratch fighting against this 'loser' military.


----------



## Oublious

jamahir said:


> @Oublious is relying on some "Expat in Kyiv" who is probably the British advisor to The Kyiv Independent, that highly intellectual newspaper which gave the world the news of "500 Russian tanks destroyed in four days of the invasion" and of course the unforgettable "The ghost of Kiev".




Looks who is talking? The guy who believes in green book of qadafi...


----------



## Hack-Hook

gambit said:


> Aah..Not true. My sister-in-law needs that shit. My niece does not get enough from nursing.


Usually the problem lies with parents want to feed the child on schedule instead of feeding the child on it's demand .

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> I read Russian army is not organized in the way as the western armies do. Russia doesn’t have non commissioned officers called NCO. That may explain the failure of Russian military in real combats. Their military doctrine sucks. They rather get used to consume domestic political propaganda than how to effectively fight foreign armies. NCO is the backbone of every army. Can you shed a light?


Were you asking why NCO is the backbone of every army or were you asking why Russia don't have an NCO corps?

Well, the reason why NCO corps are backbone of every army because it give you the flexibility to make your unit organic. There are two type of NCO, the professional soldier (the leader) and the Specialist (the technician) where it is common for soldier to climb the rank when you are up the ladder, you accumulated combat experience (or other experience if you are a specialist) but not leadership experience, giving command structure to NCO to have the flexibility to do what the NCO leader want means less work load for the guy in charge, and that don't just go at Platoon level, but Company level, Battalion level to even Brigade level.

Why? Take US Army as an example. The basic unit for deployment is Brigade Combat Team (BCT) which mean when you are deploy the 4000 or so men from the same Brigade will be deploy together, but being deployed together does not mean you are going to fight together, each Battalion in a single Brigade would be assigned to a certain Area of Operation (AO) and within each AO, you have Company and Platoon deployed independently with each other, so you can cover more ground instead of sending all the men in a giant blob of 4000 men.

So why NCO is important? Each Company have a Company First Sergeant (E-7), each Platoon have a platoon Sergeant (E-6) and each fireteam have a buck sergeant (E-5) each squad is commanded by a Corporal (E-4) so when a Platoon Leader (2LT) gave order, each unit within that Platoon (3 Fireteams, 6 Squad + 1 Heavy Weapon Squad) can take individual initiative so the buck sergeant can tell their squad where to go because they are the one that was fighting in that battlespace, they know better than the 2LT who in in charge of the entire battlefield, say for example, if I have to micromanage a squad, I would be at that squad and seeing what that Buck Sergeant see and make decision that way, if I do that, me as a Platoon Leader would lose the big picture because I am not looking at the overall situation, I am looking at that particular part of Battlefield. But If I delegate duty to that Fireteam leader and he in turn delegate that mission to his squad, then I am free to move my troop as will, and not bound by every little detail in the battlefield.

On the other hand, NCO or SNCO are also act as a mentor to the command structure, because the way they are organised. an NCO would have more experience than the person who command that unit. An O-3 commanding a Company would have 5-9 years of experience, a E-7 would have been in the army for almost 20 years An O-1/2 commanding a platoon would have less than 2 years of experience in the army, a platoon sergeant (E-6) would have 10+ year, which mean they are also a source of information, where you have the command, but don't have the experience, they compensate it by supplying their experience.

Russia do not have a functioning NCO corps. Their sergeant are most or less specialist and veteran which simply rose thru the rank. Which mean the company commander would have to micromanage every move and hence generally losing sight of the big picture. This is also why there are a quite a lot General got killed in this war because there are no one to oversee the battle, The small picture were not oversee by NCO because they don't have NCO. the big picture is not oversee by junior officer because they need to deal with the small picture, which mean the chain of command would have to be personally involved if there battle plan have to alter, which mean you have more General or Colonel in the firing line dealing with stuff Junior Officer are supposed to deal with, but they can't because they are busy dealing with every little thing in different corner of the battlefield. Which mean a company in Russia can take on less ground than a company in the US. Which I don't think I need to tell you, this is a bad thing.

As for why Russian Army does not have a NCO Corps? Well, the Soviet Doctrine (What the Russian followed) does not like splitting up power like that, all power are centralised, much like the government, you have an officer, and you have your troop, and when your troop disobey, the officer execute that man and make an example out of it, so how would it fare if you put Platoon Sergeant or Company sergeant in the mix? You now have 3 leaders instead of 1 (The Company CO). So who's order you are going to follow if you are a lowly soldier (or a conscript)

The officer corps in Russia have absolute power, that's how they reign in their men, this is their military tradition, officer gave order, soldier follow order. And it have not change since 1917.

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
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## Apollon

gambit said:


> In other words, those were the 'baby formula' of the past.



Not only that. I think thats better for babies. Just look at all the baby formula scandals


----------



## ahtan_china

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> The simple truth is as Pentagon admitted.
> 
> Russia is the one shaping the Ukrainian war today.


Maybe Russia will refer sino-vietnam border conflict in1980s. 
So how long will russia-ukraine-war go on.


----------



## jamahir

Oublious said:


> Looks who is talking? The guy who believes in green book of qadafi...



I do because it makes sense unlike "The Kyiv Independent".

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## gambit

jhungary said:


> Were you asking why NCO is the backbone of every army or were you asking why Russia don't have an NCO corps?


Russia will not lose to Ukraine even if Ukraine have a superior NCO corps. Russia will win because the US have a baby formula problem. I do not know how they are related but according to some people here, the baby formula shortage in the US is negatively affecting the Ukrainian military. It is one of those things that we are not smart enough to sense the nuances that these 'sofa soldiers' can.

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## jhungary

nufix said:


> Didnt US tankers do this stuff as well in Iraq. I saw cars getting crushed multiple times just for scores. Were they court martialed?


Well, we don't crush car for fun. And if you do, you *WILL* get court martialled. as per Article 109 UCMJ Wasting Or Spoiling Nonmilitary Property

There are 2 ways a US tank could have crush a car, tanks *ALWAYS HAVE RIGHT OF WAY* and cannot stop on a dime (well, you don't give way to a tank that's your business) so if car don't stop and collide with a tank, there is a pretty good chance your car is going to get crushed, and it is most likely your fault. 

There are footage show that US force crush civilian car because he steal something with it. All equipment of a crime are destroyed to punish the looter, this is not US Rule, this is Iraqi rules, which consider their law call for cutting of thief's hand, losing a car is a lot better than losing a pair of hand.

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## Vergennes

Broccoli said:


> Lone mt-lb met it's end. Reminds me of Syrian military sending lone AFV's do things because they were running low on them.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525557064176648205



Is this the so called "Second world's most powerful army" ? That army can't even perform basic tasks like global combined arms operations,sending lone group of soldiers and armored vehicles in the open without any kind of reconnaissance,artillery or air support only to get roasted by the Ukrainian military. Reminds me of the Syrian army.

Those who think the Russians have truly evolved are clearly mistaken. The only way the Russians are gaining territory is by sending their men as cannon fodder and waves multiple times to overwhelm Ukrainian positions just like in WW2.

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> Russia will not lose to Ukraine even if Ukraine have a superior NCO corps. Russia will win because the US have a baby formula problem. I do not know how they are related but according to some people here, the baby formula shortage in the US is negatively affecting the Ukrainian military. It is one of those things that we are not smart enough to sense the nuances that these 'sofa soldiers' can.


Meh, try to reason with the Baby Formula guy but he gone all hostile. Then I gone all hostile.....

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> It's harder than you think.
> 
> The production of baby formula is very delicate, it's not something you throw money at it and you can multiple their production. It needed a lot of certification to have the production ramp up, this is not normal dairy production, and normal dairy production already have a very stringent rules
> 
> Put together the people (Not just Chinese) buying them and selling them back to the Chinese on Higher Price, which mean people who don't have kids would still buy them to trade for profit. It took 4 years from 2015 to 2019 to have the production stabilised. 2 months would not solve anything. And even today. Some local supermarket still have 2 tins per customer limit to deter people from buying unless you really needed it.
> 
> Here are an article back in 2015 about Baby Formula shortage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Behind Australia’s baby formula shortage
> 
> 
> The extreme shortage of baby formula in Australia’s supermarkets, which has sparked panic and outrage among parents, has been blamed on China’s huge online shopping event, ‘Singles Day’.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> au.finance.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is an article back in 2018 about the limitation still in place
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why desperate parents are sending pleading letters to Woolworths about their babies.
> 
> 
> It's an issue that won't go away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mamamia.com.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just be glad this does not happen to you.......


I never understood why there is so much need for baby formula. Humans seem to have done quite well for the first few million years without baby formula. And all of a sudden woman cant breastfeed? I dont get it. Particularly in Africa and china. That just needs to import unlimited amount of baby formula.

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## Oublious

jamahir said:


> I do because it makes sense unlike "The Kyiv Independent".




You must be stupid or what? I never believed in such thing and didn't wrote thing like that. The only dumb person who mentioned me is you because of airfilter on helicopter with a reporter who talks about indepency of kyiev. I bet you never saw a airfilter in your miserable life?


lol

what stupid person are you?


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> I never understood why there is so much need for baby formula. Humans seem to have done quite well for the first few million years without baby formula. And all of a sudden woman cant breastfeed? I dont get it. Particularly in Africa and china. That just needs to import unlimited amount of baby formula.


Busy mum, don't have enough to lactate, some people just wanted formula, some go for the more traditional route for breast feeding, I am for either way.


----------



## jamahir

Oublious said:


> You must be stupid or what? I never believed in such thing and didn't wrote thing like that. The only dumb person who mentioned me is you because of airfilter on helicopter with a reporter who talks about indepency of kyiev. I bet you never saw a airfilter in your miserable life?
> 
> 
> lol
> 
> what stupid person are you?



You are right, I have never seen an air filter on a helicopter in my life and so I am stupid  but what about you who believed that an air filter was a washing machine ?

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## Iron Shrappenel

nufix said:


> Didnt US tankers do this stuff as well in Iraq. I saw cars getting crushed multiple times just for scores. Were they court martialed?


How dare you !!! Those Tanks were on a holy CRUUUSADEE !!! THEY WERE LIBERATING THE CARS FROM THE A-RABS !!!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## thetutle

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> The simple truth is as Pentagon admitted.
> 
> Russia is the one shaping the Ukrainian war today.


As long as they're not winning its fine.


----------



## RoadAmerica

wahhab0202 said:


> The Afghan people won, they kick invaders out of their land. Now, they will decide for themself where to go without external intervention.


We’ll be saying the same about Ukraine


----------



## RoadAmerica

ckf said:


> Too many excuses about yada yada and blaming everyone else for today's problem on blah blah blah. US can print 40 billion US dollars to pay off all the defense companies, but can't get baby formula to newborn mothers. What a great country US has become.


Blah blah back at you. See how that works 🤷🏿‍♂️


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## CAPRICORN-88

thetutle said:


> As long as they're not winning its fine.


Who is being driven out of the Eastern Ukraine right now?

So who do you reckons is losing?

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## RoadAmerica

The SC said:


> Chinese media:
> 
> Everything is made in China, except for the lies which are Made in USA.
> @Chinanws22


Ha except jet engines and everything else they need to steal because they “make everything “ 🥱


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> Were you asking why NCO is the backbone of every army or were you asking why Russia don't have an NCO corps?
> 
> Well, the reason why NCO corps are backbone of every army because it give you the flexibility to make your unit organic. There are two type of NCO, the professional soldier (the leader) and the Specialist (the technician) where it is common for soldier to climb the rank when you are up the ladder, you accumulated combat experience (or other experience if you are a specialist) but not leadership experience, giving command structure to NCO to have the flexibility to do what the NCO leader want means less work load for the guy in charge, and that don't just go at Platoon level, but Company level, Battalion level to even Brigade level.
> 
> Why? Take US Army as an example. The basic unit for deployment is Brigade Combat Team (BCT) which mean when you are deploy the 4000 or so men from the same Brigade will be deploy together, but being deployed together does not mean you are going to fight together, each Battalion in a single Brigade would be assigned to a certain Area of Operation (AO) and within each AO, you have Company and Platoon deployed independently with each other, so you can cover more ground instead of sending all the men in a giant blob of 4000 men.
> 
> So why NCO is important? Each Company have a Company First Sergeant (E-7), each Platoon have a platoon Sergeant (E-6) and each fireteam have a buck sergeant (E-5) each squad is commanded by a Corporal (E-4) so when a Platoon Leader (2LT) gave order, each unit within that Platoon (3 Fireteams, 6 Squad + 1 Heavy Weapon Squad) can take individual initiative so the buck sergeant can tell their squad where to go because they are the one that was fighting in that battlespace, they know better than the 2LT who in in charge of the entire battlefield, say for example, if I have to micromanage a squad, I would be at that squad and seeing what that Buck Sergeant see and make decision that way, if I do that, me as a Platoon Leader would lose the big picture because I am not looking at the overall situation, I am looking at that particular part of Battlefield. But If I delegate duty to that Fireteam leader and he in turn delegate that mission to his squad, then I am free to move my troop as will, and not bound by every little detail in the battlefield.
> 
> On the other hand, NCO or SNCO are also act as a mentor to the command structure, because the way they are organised. an NCO would have more experience than the person who command that unit. An O-3 commanding a Company would have 5-9 years of experience, a E-7 would have been in the army for almost 20 years An O-1/2 commanding a platoon would have less than 2 years of experience in the army, a platoon sergeant (E-6) would have 10+ year, which mean they are also a source of information, where you have the command, but don't have the experience, they compensate it by supplying their experience.
> 
> Russia do not have a functioning NCO corps. Their sergeant are most or less specialist and veteran which simply rose thru the rank. Which mean the company commander would have to micromanage every move and hence generally losing sight of the big picture. This is also why there are a quite a lot General got killed in this war because there are no one to oversee the battle, The small picture were not oversee by NCO because they don't have NCO. the big picture is not oversee by junior officer because they need to deal with the small picture, which mean the chain of command would have to be personally involved if there battle plan have to alter, which mean you have more General or Colonel in the firing line dealing with stuff Junior Officer are supposed to deal with, but they can't because they are busy dealing with every little thing in different corner of the battlefield. Which mean a company in Russia can take on less ground than a company in the US. Which I don't think I need to tell you, this is a bad thing.
> 
> As for why Russian Army does not have a NCO Corps? Well, the Soviet Doctrine (What the Russian followed) does not like splitting up power like that, all power are centralised, much like the government, you have an officer, and you have your troop, and when your troop disobey, the officer execute that man and make an example out of it, so how would it fare if you put Platoon Sergeant or Company sergeant in the mix? You now have 3 leaders instead of 1 (The Company CO). So who's order you are going to follow if you are a lowly soldier (or a conscript)
> 
> The officer corps in Russia have absolute power, that's how they reign in their men, this is their military tradition, officer gave order, soldier follow order. And it have not change since 1917.


Very good insight


----------



## MeFishToo

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Who is being driven out of the Eastern Ukraine right now?
> 
> So who do you reckons is losing?


What is the definition of a russian victory? Exactly what is Putins goal in Ukraine? Seems to me the russians just took a shot at Ukraine with a gameplan saying “time will tell how it ends”.

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## F-22Raptor

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Who is being driven out of the Eastern Ukraine right now?
> 
> So who do you reckons is losing?




Russia lost the Battle of Kyiv and now lost the Battle of Kharkiv. It’s going to take time to push Russia completely out of Ukraine. Russian offensive operations have completed stalled out except for a tiny pocket near Severodonetsk. And Russia is getting massively attrited.

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## BHAN85

Vergennes said:


> Is this the so called "Second world's most powerful army" ? That army can't even perform basic tasks like global combined arms operations,sending lone group of soldiers and armored vehicles in the open without any kind of reconnaissance,artillery or air support only to get roasted by the Ukrainian military. Reminds me of the Syrian army.
> 
> Those who think the Russians have truly evolved are clearly mistaken. The only way the Russians are gaining territory is by sending their men as cannon fodder and waves multiple times to overwhelm Ukrainian positions just like in WW2.



Second world's most powerful army in nuclear war.

In conventional war Russia is a little thing, moreover in Ukraine they dont want to waste expensive things, neither the best troops.

War itself is the poor cheap choice, the rich expensive choice to win is giving bribes to Kiev elite like the West does.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

MeFishToo said:


> What is the definition of a russian victory? Exactly what is Putins goal in Ukraine? Seems to me the russians just took a shot at Ukraine with a gameplan saying “time will tell how it ends”.


  
So what is your definition of a Ukrainian AZOV neo-NAZI victory?

The surrender of their field commander US Navy Admiral Eric Thor Olson and British Lieut Colonel John Bailey to the DNR LNR militia and Russian Forces represent a Ukrainian Victory, right?

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## khansaheeb

Russians attacked Severodonetsk 11 times with artillery, Azot chemical plant set alight


ROMAN PETRENKO - SUNDAY, 15 MAY 2022, 09: 27 On May 14, the Russian military launched 11 artillery attacks on Severodonetsk in the Luhansk region. There were hits to the Azot chemical plant, a technical school, and high-rise buildings.




finance.yahoo.com





Russians attacked Severodonetsk 11 times with artillery, Azot chemical plant set alight​





Ukrayinska Pravda
Sun, May 15, 2022, 7:27 AM


*ROMAN PETRENKO** — *SUNDAY, 15 MAY 2022, 09: 27
On May 14, the Russian military launched 11 artillery attacks on Severodonetsk in the Luhansk region. There were hits to the Azot chemical plant, a technical school, and high-rise buildings.
*Source*: head of the Oblast State Administration Serhii Haidai on Telegram
*Haidai's direct speech*: "40 percent of all Russian attacks on May 14 occurred in Severodonetsk. About the same amount - for Hirska and Popasna communities.
There is a lot of destruction. These are 11 high-rise buildings in new and old districts of the city, in several of them apartments caught fire. The Russians got into the technical school building and continue to destroy Azot (one of the largest chemical industry enterprises in Europe – Ed.).

Yesterday morning, after another rocket arrival, flames engulfed one of the production halls."
*Details*: According to Haidai, three more residents of Vrubivka were injured. In Novodruzhesk, a woman was injured and two houses were destroyed. Three more were damaged in Lysychansk, where the enemy launched an airstrike, and two in Rubizhne.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525748588445302784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525748590718623746

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525748593457504256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525748596586463233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525748599501508613

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525748602022281217

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## CAPRICORN-88

The problem is: it is at the end of the week and the stories are terribly one sided as they all derived from one source - the Ukraine authority in Kyiv and they are not the most reliable one.

Remember "The Ghost of Kyiv", the posthumous metal awarded to sailors who are still alive today.

We will all know what is really happening in Kharkiv soon.

The battles are going on in many places.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525748604329238528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525748606891859969

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525748608783597568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525748610939379712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525748613141385216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525748616152993794

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## Vergennes

BHAN85 said:


> Second world's most powerful army in nuclear war.
> 
> In conventional war Russia is a little thing, moreover in Ukraine they dont want to waste expensive things, neither the best troops.
> 
> War itself is the poor cheap choice, the rich expensive choice to win is giving bribes to Kiev elite like the West does.



That is a poor justification of Russia's catastrophic performance in Ukraine by saying "they didn't send their best". All those VDV and elite tank/rifle/motorized divisions who got roasted might disagree with you.



CAPRICORN-88 said:


> So what is your definition of a Ukrainian AZOV neo-NAZI victory?
> 
> The surrender of their field commander US Navy Admiral Eric Thor Olson and British Lieut Colonel John Bailey to the DNR LNR militia and Russian Forces represent a Ukrainian Victory, right?



LMAO do you really believe US and British troops were captured ? I don't know what you're smoking but I need it.

The Russians and their bootlickers over here are trying to justify Russia's catastrophic performance either by saying "Russia only sent second tier forces" (which is BS given they have sent elite VDV and tank/rifle/motorized divisions to Ukraine) or that NATO forces are fighting on the ground against Russian army.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Remember this is a war by proxies.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525748618422001665

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525748621098029056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525748623140601857

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## BHAN85

Vergennes said:


> That is a poor justification of Russia's catastrophic performance in Ukraine by saying "they didn't send their best". All those VDV and elite tank/rifle/motorized divisions who got roasted might disagree with you.



As I said, if money is not a problem, then war wouldn't happen never.

War is the cheap choice.

Giving bribes is the expensive choice. That's what USA/West does to control Kiev ruling elite.

If Russia gives 50 bn to Kiev elite, the war would stop right now.

War is the choice when you dont have enough money to change someone willing paying him.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Vergennes said:


> That is a poor justification of Russia's catastrophic performance in Ukraine by saying "they didn't send their best". All those VDV and elite tank/rifle/motorized divisions who got roasted might disagree with you.
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO do you really believe US and British troops were captured ? I don't know what you're smoking but I need it.
> 
> The Russians and their bootlickers over here are trying to justify Russia's catastrophic performance either by saying "Russia only sent second tier forces" (which is BS given they have sent elite VDV and tank/rifle/motorized divisions to Ukraine) or that NATO forces are fighting on the ground against Russian army.


You can choose to believe whatever you want.
For me, time will tell.

I can wait for the REAL NEWS. But they won't be LIVE on Western MSM. .

After all none of you can corroborated any of the made believe tales you are posting in here apart from one fact.

The Russian allies are capturing new territories wifh each passing days.

This one everyone is agreeing. Mariopul has indeed fallen.

And US Secretary of Defense Llyod Austin and Chancellor Olaf Scholtz are calling for a ceasefire.

Calling for CEASEFIRE when they are winning the war does not make any sense at least not for me.

Maybe for some of you.

But these are fact that cannot be denied.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525765125751422976

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525748604329238528
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525748606891859969
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525748608783597568
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525748610939379712
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525748613141385216
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525748616152993794



Just as I predicted, as they keep backing off, and try to do attack on smaller areas with higher force concentration, the better area target they are becoming.

As time goes, the rolling encirclement force turned into a snowball of depleted, and exhausted units.

Imagine, at the start Russia had _2 field armies_ in Izyum area vs. at most 2 full divisions of Ukrainians.

_Now Ukrainians are pushing what's left of them back.

Their losses in Izyum must have been staggering for Ukrainians to try pushing, or they have actually gave up on advancing there, and were pulling out forces on their own.

-------_

What this must tells Ukraine:

Opportunity to rotate ASAP
1 more month to turn territorials into soldiers
Finish forming 2 reserve divisions ASAP, and then pick an easy target for them
Relocate forces from places of lowest Russian aggression, and lowest risk of attack


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525742593291739137


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## Vergennes

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> You can choose to believe whatever you want.
> For me, time will tell.
> 
> I can wait for the REAL NEWS. But they won't be LIVE on Western MSM. .
> 
> After all none of you can corroborated any of the made believe tales you are posting in here apart from one fact.
> 
> The Russian allies are capturing new territories wifh each passing days.
> 
> This one everyone is agreeing. Mariopul has indeed fallen.
> 
> And US Secretary of Defense Llyod Austin and Chancellor Olaf Scholtz are calling for a ceasefire.
> 
> Calling for CEASEFIRE when they are winning the war does not make any sense at least not for me.
> 
> Maybe for some of you.
> 
> But these are fact that cannot be denied.



Oh yes,the truth surely lies with the Russians LMAO.

Russians are suffering attrocious attrition losing close to a BTG every days,they are constantly revising their objectives down,they don't have enough forces to make rotations of troops,their troops are exhausted and morale low,they are building BTGs from scratches things aren't looking bright.

Russia claims they destroyed the Ukrainian military might but the said Ukrainians have chased them from Kyiv,Chernihiv,Sumy,they are chasing them from Kharkiv and are conducting counter offensives. 

Ukrainians are preparing and training their forces with all the heavy stuff they have received from the west (which still continues) and will soon be able to launch massive and large scall offensives. Russians will have more and more struggle to hold their current territories.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Military analysts generally agreed Russian soldiers who are playing the secondary role will readily withdraw back from settlement they are controlling which they deemed as indefensible based on their strength to allow the enemy to enter.

Then they will wait for the main DNR and LNR militia who are doing the real fighting to arrive.

With their air supports and missiles, soon we will hear and see heavy casualties incurred on the Ukrainian Forces now in defense. That has been repeated over and over again in this war.

What the hell is wrong with the Ukrainian Army?

At this rate, they will face an eminent defeat or ending. 

That is why I always says a diplomatic and negotiatlon is the only way out for them. But it may be too late.

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## LeGenD

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You really believe the propaganda nonsense that you're putting out. Without any power assisting them with guided anti-tank weapons, artilleries, drones, and fighter jets, the Afghan people defeated the NATO alliance. That is a fact that you can't escape from. The US and NATO were forced to negotiate with the same Taliban that they were trying to uproot to the point where that same organization is the government in Afghanistan today. And that is what Congressman Matt Gaetz acknowledged.


US/NATO - Afghan War was of entirely different character then the ongoing Russia - Ukraine War.

US/NATO does *not* have direct access to Afghanistan. 
- Pakistan provided access.
- This arrangement made it possible for Pakistan to preserve its interests in Afghanistan.
- Pakistan felt that Afghan Taliban should be saved.
- USA did *not* declare Afghan Taliban a terrorist organization.
- The door for negotiations between USA and Afghan Taliban was kept open.

US/NATO wanted to dismantle Al-Qaeda Network.
- Pakistan accepted.
- Al-Qaeda Network was dismantled in time.
- Osama Bin Laden was assassinated in 2011.
- Hamza Bin Laden was assassinated in 2019.

USA and Afghan Taliban finalized a deal in 2020.
- Afghan Taliban agreed to not allow any organization to use Afghan soil as launching pad for terrorist attacks in USA and its allies.
- US/NATO agreed to withdraw troops from Afghanistan.

As far as the battles are concerned: Afghan Taliban stood *no* chance against US/NATO in direct clashes. How do you think US/NATO occupation of Afghanistan lasted 20 years? Afghan Taliban's strategy was to make it costly for the US-backed Afghan government to establish its writ around the country and function normally. They succeeded to this effect.

---

Afghan Taliban have returned to power in Afghanistan but the country is in very bad shape. 
- They still have enemies on the ground who are creating problems for them.
- Pakistan also have enemies in Afghanistan who continue to attack Pakistani troops.
- Afghanistan's economy is in very bad shape.
- Afghan Taliban have requested USA to provide economic assistance.
- Pakistan and USA are discussing options for Afghanistan.

---

Russia - Ukraine War is playing out differently.

Russia have direct access to Ukraine.
- Russia was much stronger than Ukraine but US/NATO are providing assistance to Ukraine to even the odds.
- Ukrainian forces have defeated Russian forces in the Battle of Kyiv (conventional)
- Ukrainian forces have defeated Russian forces in the Battle of Kharkiv (conventional)
- Russian forces are attempting to secure Mariupol (conventional)

People are commenting on the "outstanding performance" of Russian forces in conventional battles.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Vergennes said:


> Oh yes,the truth surely lies with the Russians LMAO.
> 
> Russians are suffering attrocious attrition losing close to a BTG every days,they are constantly revising their objectives down,they don't have enough forces to make rotations of troops,their troops are exhausted and morale low,they are building BTGs from scratches things aren't looking bright.
> 
> Russia claims they destroyed the Ukrainian military might but the said Ukrainians have chased them from Kyiv,Chernihiv,Sumy,they are chasing them from Kharkiv and are conducting counter offensives.
> 
> Ukrainians are preparing and training their forces with all the heavy stuff they have received from the west (which still continues) and will soon be able to launch massive and large scall offensives. Russians will have more and more struggle to hold their current territories.


What you opined simply demonstrate to me that you lack the understanding of how this war is being fought?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525765125751422976




Do you think there is any sane person who is gonna fall for the repeated nonsense that the British government's MOD puts out?

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## BHAN85

> It is obvious that Finland’s security deteriorates if Finland joins NATO.
> 
> So why join?
> 
> The most obvious answer is that Washington has paid the Finish leaders to add to the pressure on the Kremlin by joining NATO. I have good reason to believe this. Years ago I was in the Pentagon in the office of a very high official being offered an important appointment. I used the opportunity to ask a question about something that had long puzzled me. How, I asked, does Washington manage to get foreign governments to support Washington’s interests at the expense of their own countries? “Money,” the high Pentagon official said. “You mean foreign aid,” I said. “No,” the official said, “we give the political leaders bags full of money. We own them. They report to us.”











The Kremlin Never Learns |







www.paulcraigroberts.org


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525774776161140738


----------



## Basel

gambit said:


> Then go ahead and pick a fight with US instead of Saudi Arabia. And find out the hard way the differences.
> 
> 
> When I got orders to deploy to Desert Storm, I barely knew anything about Iraq other than that the country is in the ME. But here is where this criticism of US fails spectacularly: That we do not need to know anything about any country to fight its armed forces.
> 
> No one does.



The coward US don't fight anyone who can hurt them back, they use dirty tactics to weaken their enemy and then wage wars / proxy wars, also in most adventure since WW-2 US preferred to go with it's allies to make sure that no one in world will dare to oppose their illegitimate actions.

USSR was peer power but Russia is not so now after weakening Russia since 1990 US is trying to cut down its military capabilities and sale of its military equipment as after Ukraine war many will see Russian equipment as junk, US is also trying to stop rise of China by all dirty means to avoid a peer in future.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525735547301396480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525733427156238336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525725126083366912

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## Hassan Al-Somal

sammuel said:


> Funny how you try to portray Russian moves as if they where somehow , your own personal achievements .
> 
> They are not.
> 
> Just to remind , your own only personal " accomplishment " , consists of obsessively coping and pasting stuff.
> 
> And while you do that . your own people are starving , thanks to Putin :
> 
> 
> Humanitarian catastrophe is unfolding in Somalia​
> After a devastating locust invasion, the negative economic effects of the COVID-19 pandemic and the ongoing drought, the war in Ukraine is worsening the situation in East Africa. In Somalia alone 6 million people face acute food insecurity, among them are 1.4 million children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.dw.com/en/humanitarian-catastrophe-is-unfolding-in-somalia/av-61802293




There is no "humanitarian catastrophe" that is ongoing in Somalia. The rainy season has started and farmers are farming. Any false alarms by the Western NGOs is not going to make people to starve as long as they receive enough rain.

The political situation is also getting stabilized by the presidential election that is set today. 

So the child-killing son of apartheid Israel, try to find another excuse. Your Zionist Jewish brothers Zelensky and Blinken have engineered the war in Ukraine. They provoked the Russian bear, and sadly the Ukrainian people are paying the price for the war that Judea engineered. It looks like once again the "Goys" are getting massacred in the European soil while *Judea* is laughing from the sidelines even though this is a war of* Judea's own creation*.

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## Vergennes



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## Broccoli

lol, now Russian trolls are claiming that Donetsk river operation wasn't an feint but that those vehicles are actually Ukrainian. Story changes everyday.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525701086748762113

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525701076191682561

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525695862772580353

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## MeFishToo

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> So what is your definition of a Ukrainian AZOV neo-NAZI victory?
> 
> The surrender of their field commander US Navy Admiral Eric Thor Olson and British Lieut Colonel John Bailey to the DNR LNR militia and Russian Forces represent a Ukrainian Victory, right?


I guess the russians have failed to explain the choir what the goal is, except russian expansion. I have no definition of ukrainian victory, but I believe the goal is to send the russians back home.
Please spare me from the russian propaganda ”nazi” stories. Im not some anti western muppet. Its wasted on me.

Eric Thor Olson retired more than 10 years ago and is 70+ years old. Do you just copy and paste anything from the russian disinformation campaign?

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## wahhab0202

Guys I have a question, is it true that British MoD asking for ceasefire to Russia but Russia is ignoring it. Why would British asking for ceasefire instead of Ukraine?

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## MeFishToo

Broccoli said:


> lol, now Russian trolls are claiming that Donetsk river operation wasn't an feint but that those vehicles are actually Ukrainian. Story changes everyday.


Same goes with the Snake Island air assault. Russian trolls trying to paint it as a failed ukrainian invasion. Its laughable. Russia just dont seem to be able to admit even minor failure.



wahhab0202 said:


> Guys I have a question, is it true that British MoD asking for ceasefire to Russia but Russia is ignoring it. Why would British asking for ceasefire instead of Ukraine?


The pope asked it too. I guess the vatican controls Ukraine now.

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## wahhab0202

RoadAmerica said:


> We’ll be saying the same about Ukraine


We'll see. Too early to come to that conclusion. Ukraine for Russia is not like Afghanistan for the US. There is huge difference.


----------



## Apollon

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Who is being driven out of the Eastern Ukraine right now?
> 
> So who do you reckons is losing?



Russia. Already left Kharkov and stuck in rest


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525826834029596673

Reactions: Love Love:
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## beast89



Reactions: Like Like:
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## wahhab0202

Pe


MeFishToo said:


> Same goes with the Snake Island air assault. Russian trolls trying to paint it as a failed ukrainian invasion. Its laughable. Russia just dont seem to be able to admit even minor failure.
> 
> 
> The pope asked it too. I guess the vatican controls Ukraine now.


Pope should act as man of peace, he doesn't involve in this conflict. Same couldn't be said about British MoD who clearly -not only siding, but- supplying weapons to Ukraine.

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## LeGenD

BHAN85 said:


> The Kremlin Never Learns |
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.paulcraigroberts.org



This man is living in the past as well. He is vouching for Fascism and nuclear war. For a man who markets himself as a political economist, he does not seem to understand that Russia should stop attacking other countries around it because these developments have eroded Russian goodwill in the Western hemisphere, invited sanctions and hampered Russian economic growth.









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


A bit like this? : This is more of Ukraine dn Russia fight......Zelenski being the black knight...



defence.pk













Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Does someone know where Mexico stands on this conflict? Has Mexico put sanctions on Russia as well?



defence.pk





*1.* Average Russian have no desire for total war with the Western hemisphere.









Независимый правозащитный медиа-проект ОВД-Инфо


ОВД-Инфо, ОВД Инфо, OVD-Info, протесты, акция, задержание, обыск, арест, свобода собраний, политпрессинг, мониторинг, горячая линия, юристы, юридическая помощь, правозащита, правозащитники, пикет,…




ovdinfo.org





People want to live, grow and prosper in life around the world. This necessitates global connectivity.

*2.* Vladimir Putin is a man of the past as pointed out in the following article:









Zelensky vs Putin: who’s winning the PR battle?


As Russian bombs fell across Ukraine, the contrast between the leaders of the warring nations could not be starker.




www.scmp.com





Putin probably wanted to revive USSR by reclaiming former SSR, but is this project feasible?

- Perceptions in a region can shift over time.
- Political realities of a region can shift over time.

Putin might have felt the need to reclaim Ukraine but he wasn't mindful of the shift in perceptions and political realities of Ukraine. Russia managed to rebuild its army but it wasn't up to the task to reclaim Ukraine by force.

*3.* One of the Russian oligarchs close to Putin have recently disclosed that his health is in decline and nuclear war is out of question.

-----

Those in power should stop living in the past and look for ways to adjust to emerging realities and how to shape them.

For perspective, Pakistan' Eastern Half split and became Bangladesh in 1971. This was a painful development but Pakistan came to terms with this reality.

So what are the options?

Option 1: Try to develop relations with Bangladesh
Option 2: Try to annex Bangladesh

Option 1 is logical, sensible and least costly path obviously - common sense.

-----

USA is the largest country in the Western hemisphere with well-defined boundaries and the capacity to lead Western hemisphere. There is consistency in American political system, and USA is able to develop solutions for the Western hemisphere by and large. This is one of the reasons why USA is LEGIT superpower. USA is not trying to annex countries around it by force even though its military might is unmatched.

- Russia did not learn from USA to its detriment.

- China learned from USA and achieved much growth on the other hand.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525829963802460160


----------



## BHAN85

LeGenD said:


> This man is living in the past as well. He is vouching for Fascism and nuclear war. For a man who markets himself as a political economist, he does not seem to understand that Russia should stop attacking other countries around it because these developments have eroded Russian goodwill in the Western hemisphere, invited sanctions and hampered Russian economic growth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> A bit like this? : This is more of Ukraine dn Russia fight......Zelenski being the black knight...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> Does someone know where Mexico stands on this conflict? Has Mexico put sanctions on Russia as well?
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *1.* Average Russian have no desire for total war with the Western hemisphere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Независимый правозащитный медиа-проект ОВД-Инфо
> 
> 
> ОВД-Инфо, ОВД Инфо, OVD-Info, протесты, акция, задержание, обыск, арест, свобода собраний, политпрессинг, мониторинг, горячая линия, юристы, юридическая помощь, правозащита, правозащитники, пикет,…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ovdinfo.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People want to live, grow and prosper in life around the world. This necessitates global connectivity.
> 
> *2.* Vladimir Putin is a man of the past as pointed out in the following article:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zelensky vs Putin: who’s winning the PR battle?
> 
> 
> As Russian bombs fell across Ukraine, the contrast between the leaders of the warring nations could not be starker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.scmp.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin probably wanted to revive USSR by reclaiming former SSR, but is this project feasible?
> 
> - Perceptions in a region can shift over time.
> - Political realities of a region can shift over time.
> 
> Putin might have felt the need to reclaim Ukraine but he wasn't mindful of the shift in perceptions and political realities of Ukraine. Russia managed to rebuild its army but it wasn't up to the task to reclaim Ukraine by force.
> 
> *3.* One of the Russian oligarchs close to Putin have recently disclosed that his health is in decline and nuclear war is out of question.
> 
> -----
> 
> Those in power should stop living in the past and look for ways to adjust to emerging realities and how to shape them.
> 
> For perspective, Pakistan' Eastern Half split and became Bangladesh in 1971. This was a painful development but Pakistan came to terms with this reality.
> 
> So what are the options?
> 
> Option 1: Try to develop relations with Bangladesh
> Option 2: Try to annex Bangladesh
> 
> Option 1 is logical, sensible and least costly path obviously - common sense.
> 
> -----
> 
> USA is the largest country in the Western hemisphere with well-defined boundaries and the capacity to lead Western hemisphere. There is consistency in American political system, and USA is able to develop solutions for the Western hemisphere by and large. This is one of the reasons why USA is LEGIT superpower. USA is not trying to annex countries around it by force even though its military might is unmatched.
> 
> - Russia did not learn from USA to its detriment.
> 
> - China learned from USA and achieved much growth on the other hand.


He worked in the USA state as "United States Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy"









Paul Craig Roberts - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





He is pointing the moon and you're looking his finger.

He's telling how USA handle European leaders through money and bribes.

He just are saying that all the crisis is a USA made crisis. They just use their money to change European leaders opinion about a topic.

He saw how USA did that in the past, and he's guessing that USA is doing the same now.

We must be grateful of someone who worked inside USA state tell us now how really USA rules the world, and particularly how USA rules Europe.

Without Western money in Kiev, it never had happened Ukraine war.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## wahhab0202

Call me a doubter. But considering the propaganda played by both side, I can't just take this news a truth. Macron offer Russia part of Ukraine?? Who is Macron?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525090721358917632


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Busy mum,


Aren't you American?



CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Who is being driven out of the Eastern Ukraine right now?
> 
> So who do you reckons is losing?


Hard to say. I'd say its a stalemate right now. But Ukranians have just pushed them out of an area north. So. Not quite sure.


----------



## Wergeland

Corax said:


> If the Iraqis and the Taliban were given the same amount of support as you're given the Ukrainians, your defeats there would have been more bloody and quicker.



Vietnam would have looked like a fart in the wind in that case.

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## LeGenD

BHAN85 said:


> He worked in the USA state as "United States Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul Craig Roberts - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is pointing the moon and you're looking his finger.
> 
> He's telling how USA handle European leaders through money and bribes.
> 
> He just are saying that all the crisis is a USA made crisis. They just use their money to change European leaders opinion about a topic.
> 
> He saw how USA did that in the past, and he's guessing that USA is doing the same now.
> 
> We must be grateful of someone who worked inside USA state tell us now how really USA rules the world, and particularly how USA rules Europe.
> 
> Without Western money in Kiev, it never had happened Ukraine war.



I responded to what he wrote in the link provided by you. He seems to be living in the past. He is old and senile now.

His disclosure about American bribing politicians of other countries is not breaking news to me. What politicians choose to do is one thing, people have access to education and can make up their minds regardless. People get to decide who will lead them in the end.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## thetutle

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> The problem is: it is at the end of the week and the stories are terribly one sided as they all derived from one source - the Ukraine authority in Kyiv and they are not the most reliable one.
> 
> Remember "The Ghost of Kyiv", the posthumous metal awarded to sailors who are still alive today.
> 
> We will all know what is really happening in Kharkiv soon.
> 
> The battles are going on in many places.


tell me, during the Armenia-azerbainjan war, whose sources did you believe more? and did you think would win?


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Aren't you American?
> 
> 
> Hard to say. I'd say its a stalemate right now. But Ukranians have just pushed them out of an area north. So. Not quite sure.


Yeah..........they got working mum in the US too...


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

MeFishToo said:


> I guess the russians have failed to explain the choir what the goal is, except russian expansion. I have no definition of ukrainian victory, but I believe the goal is to send the russians back home.
> Please spare me from the russian propaganda ”nazi” stories. Im not some anti western muppet. Its wasted on me.
> 
> Eric Thor Olson retired more than 10 years ago and is 70+ years old. Do you just copy and paste anything from the russian disinformation campaign?


Why are you so quick with your defense not knowing what is happening?

Trump and Biden are both older than him and they are your Commander in Chief, the Presidents of USA. 

When all you have to do is to wait.

If information from Wikipedia is Russian disinformation then please yourself, it is Russian.

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## BHAN85

LeGenD said:


> I responded to what he wrote in the link provided by you. He seems to be living in the past. He is old and senile now.
> 
> His disclosure about American bribing politicians of other countries is not breaking news to me. What politicians choose to do is one thing, people have their own minds to make.



His disclosure is oficially conspiracy theory.

If you ask to a average Finnish/Swedish people about reasons of their leaders to join NATO, they never guess the reason is American money in bribes to them.

He's old, but is not senile.
Some people value more the opinion of young goodlooking people, that's ridiculous.
Wisdom is only in some elderly people, and this is one of them.

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## CAPRICORN-88

thetutle said:


> tell me, during the Armenia-azerbainjan war, whose sources did you believe more? and did you think would win?


Sorry. 

You are in the wrong war now. 

Right now we are discussing about Ukraine now.

One question. 

Were you personally involved in the Armenia- Azerbaijan conflict? 

As for me. The answer is the same. Who cares?


----------



## MeFishToo

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Why are you so quick with your defense not knowing what is happening?
> 
> Trump and Biden are both older than him and they are your Commander in Chief, the Presidents of USA.
> 
> When all you have to do is to wait.
> 
> If information from Wikipedia is Russian disinformation then please yourself, it is Russian.


You never answered my question. What is the definition of a russian victory?

Btw Im not going to respond to any russian propaganda stories. Its pointless and only serves their purpose.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

MeFishToo said:


> You never answered my question. What is the definition of a russian victory?
> 
> Btw Im not going to respond to any russian propaganda stories. Its pointless and only serves their purpose.


I have given an answer but you are probably too dim to understand what I am saying.

The word Victory is used by YOU. Not by ME.
You probably have you own interpretation based on the trash you have been reading. 

So I asked you a simple and straightforward question.

Who do you think is losing followed the events that happened recently?

Not only you did not reply but repeated the word VICTORY used by yourself.

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Yeah..........they got working mum in the US too...


no, they have working "mom's" in the US. Perhaps you've been out of the US for too long, thats ok.


----------



## MeFishToo

wahhab0202 said:


> Pe
> 
> Pope should act as man of peace, he doesn't involve in this conflict. Same couldn't be said about British MoD who clearly -not only siding, but- supplying weapons to Ukraine.


Russia has been supplying weapons (and personel) to Ukraine for 8 years. None of you seem to have any problem with that, pretending the Donbas area was nothing but a break away region trying to escape the NAZIES!.. Yet Russia called for peace on behalf of its proxies, and none of you complained.


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> no, they have working "mom's" in the US. Perhaps you've been out of the US for too long, thats ok.


I have no problem lesbians or gays having kids. Do you?


----------



## MeFishToo

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> I have given an answer but you are probably too dim to understand what I am saying.
> 
> The word Victory is used by YOU. Not by ME.
> You probably have you own interpretation based on the trash you have been reading.
> 
> So I asked you a simple and straightforward question.
> 
> Who do you think is losing followed the events that happened recently?
> 
> Not only you did not reply but repeated the word VICTORY used by yourself.


My conclusion is you have no idea what the russian goal is or what it takes for Russia to claim victory. And I doubt the russians have any idea too.

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## thetutle

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Sorry.
> 
> You are in the wrong war now.
> 
> Right now we are discussing about Ukraine now.
> 
> One question.
> 
> Were you personally involved in the Armenia- Azerbaijan conflict?
> 
> As for me. The answer is the same. Who cares?


I bet you were wrong then and I think you will be wrong now.


----------



## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> He worked in the USA state as "United States Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul Craig Roberts - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is pointing the moon and you're looking his finger.
> 
> He's telling how USA handle European leaders through money and bribes.
> 
> He just are saying that all the crisis is a USA made crisis. They just use their money to change European leaders opinion about a topic.
> 
> He saw how USA did that in the past, and he's guessing that USA is doing the same now.
> 
> We must be grateful of someone who worked inside USA state tell us now how really USA rules the world, and particularly how USA rules Europe.
> 
> Without Western money in Kiev, it never had happened Ukraine war.


Totally faked
I bet he gets some dollars from the kremlin $1.2 billion funds for propaganda and disinformation.
If true why can’t you do the same? Why Putin fails to bribe Finland and Sweden politicians? You admit russians are too incompetent even in bribing others?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> I have no problem lesbians or gays having kids. Do you?


Me? yes I do actually. I would ban them adopting kids. But thats not what I was taking about. 

No American I have met yet, spells mum with "mum". Americans without exception spell it as "mom". But thats ok, as I said your excuse is that you have lived in australia for too long. 

Or maybe its your autocorrect. But then you did not know what I was referring to so. ok

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## CAPRICORN-88

MeFishToo said:


> Russia has been supplying weapons (and personel) to Ukraine for 8 years. None of you seem to have any problem with that, pretending the Donbas area was nothing but a break away region trying to escape the NAZIES!.. Yet Russia called for peace on behalf of its proxies, and none of you complained.


You are pretty mixed up.

You failed to point out that the DNR and LNR rebels are using exactly the same weapons as the Ukrainian neo-NAZI AZOV forces in the civil war. So it is hard to prove your allegations? Even if it true so what? The US and NATO have been doing that for ages hence the term war by proxies.

But what is your stake in all this?

Are you a neo-Nazi supporter?

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## thetutle

beast89 said:


> View attachment 844183


You're right, this is usually a neo nazi or standard "old school" nazi symbol. 

And you are right that Nazis are terrible people for causing so much harm to Jews, Communists, zionsits, British and French imperialists, and perhaps some others. As a supporter of those groups you are totally justified in pointing out that some Ukrainians are indeed nazis. 

But let me ask you, would you prefer this gentleman to the left moved into a house next door to you, or would you prefer that he be armed and fight the Russians to the death? 

I say, let's arm him, keep him in Ukraine and see what happens.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Funny thing is:

Tweets are showing that the DNR and LNR militia are now using Javelin, switchblades and Stinger.

Did the US and NATO supplied these weapons to them?

  

BTW Russia only asked the Ukraine to comply with the Minsk II agreement signed by all parties in conflicts.

But Zalensky failed to show up on Feb 8 as promised. Russia started their Special Military Operation on Feb 24, 2022.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

This has actually happened in the Zaporizhia Oblast. 300 Ukrainians killed in one battle! The Judea-controlled Ukrainian forces have taken a beating in the Zaporizhia Oblast. A good day for the Russian liberators.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525764691825283072

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Me? yes I do actually. I would ban them adopting kids. But thats not what I was taking about.
> 
> No American I have met yet, spells mum with "mum". Americans without exception spell it as "mom". But thats ok, as I said your excuse is that you have lived in australia for too long.
> 
> Or maybe its your autocorrect. But then you did not know what I was referring to so. ok


Actually, it depends on which state you grow up with.

American uses both mom and mum, it depends on which state you were in and what you were talking about. 

Where I grew up, Mom usually used with "'s" like My Mom's Chicken is the best, and Mum usually used as general pronounce. Most people don't really care and just uses Mom all the way. 

If you use the search function and look up my previous post, you would know I uses both probably equally.

About the lesbian bit, well, live and let live, I don't mind gay or les people and I am not woke, and if you don't like them, you don't like them, that's okay with me too. I mean, you are free to hate or dislike whatever you want.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> This has actually happened in the Zaporizhia Oblast. 300 Ukrainians killed in one battle! The Judea-controlled Ukrainian forces have taken a beating in the Zaporizhia Oblast. A good day for the Russian liberators.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525764691825283072


The tweet said Malinovka, it's in Kharkiv, not Zaporizhia Oblast


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

MeFishToo said:


> Same goes with the Snake Island air assault. Russian trolls trying to paint it as a failed ukrainian invasion. Its laughable. Russia just dont seem to be able to admit even minor failure.




These are the remnants of the corpses of the Judea-controlled Ukrainian forces in the Snake Island. You can see their corpses and the NATO-provided atgms.

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Actually, it depends on which state you grow up with.
> 
> American uses both mom and mum, it depends on which state you were in and what you were talking about.
> 
> Where I grew up, Mom usually used with "'s" like My Mom's Chicken is the best, and Mum usually used as general pronounce. Most people don't really care and just uses Mom all the way.
> 
> If you use the search function and look up my previous post, you would know I uses both probably equally.
> 
> About the lesbian bit, well, live and let live, I don't mind gay or les people and I am not woke, and if you don't like them, you don't like them, that's okay with me too. I mean, you are free to hate or dislike whatever you want.


Thats fair enough. Its just that I've never met an American that uses the "mum". but I have not met 330 million Americans yet. only tens of thousands. 

But I down hate gays. Not at all. Some of my friends are gay. well not friends, but acquaintances. No problem. I would just not let them adopt kids thats all. Or I would ban a gay male couple from adopting boys. Thats just wrong I think. But noone cares what I think.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Thats fair enough. Its just that I've never met an American that uses the "mum". but I have not met 330 million Americans yet. only tens of thousands.
> 
> But I down hate gays. Not at all. Some of my friends are gay. well not friends, but acquaintances. No problem. I would just not let them adopt kids thats all. Or I would ban a gay male couple from adopting boys. Thats just wrong I think. But noone cares what I think.


As I said, I used both, chalk it to living in Australia for long or how I was brough up (My mother grew up in British Hong Kong) I never exclusively uses one or another, I know people in the US generally uses mom.


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Actually, it depends on which state you grow up with.
> 
> American uses both mom and mum, it depends on which state you were in and what you were talking about.


Its interesting that you say this. But Having met so many Americans and lived with so many and having been basically all over the US, wold you tell me what state you say uses or pronounces "mum" as opposed to "mom"? 

Or even what parts of what states? It's not a big deal, but I've just never heard of this before.


----------



## Apollon

Sweden just voted to join NATO 









Sweden to seek broad support for NATO membership


Swedish Prime Minister Magdalena Andersson will seek broad support for an application to join NATO on Monday, she announced on Sunday after her party dropped its long-standing opposition to membership in the wake of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.




www.reuters.com


----------



## MeFishToo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> These are the remnants of the corpses of the Judea-controlled Ukrainian forces in the Snake Island. You can see their corpses and the NATO-provided atgms.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525735547301396480


Must’ve been a special-special forces attempt sending one guy and a nicely placed NLAW attacking an island with zero armor defending it. As far as I remember the russian claim was 50? dead and a several downed helicopters and planes. They just didnt care much, so lets document 1 casualty for a few seconds while holding the camera so the buildings are in the background.
To bad the ukrainian assault was documented by drones and satelites long before Russia had time to fabricate anything.


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> Its interesting that you say this. But Having met so many Americans and lived with so many and having been basically all over the US, wold you tell me what state you say uses or pronounces "mum" as opposed to "mom"?
> 
> Or even what parts of what states? It's not a big deal, but I've just never heard of this before.


Well, generally the closer you are to the border state the closer you can see the different use of language, I have a friend who was born in Maine, and never been to Canada, but he speak and the word he uses are almost entirely Canadian. Although Canadian also uses both.


----------



## MeFishToo

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> You are pretty mixed up.
> 
> You failed to point out that the DNR and LNR rebels are using exactly the same weapons as the Ukrainian neo-NAZI AZOV forces in the civil war. So it is hard to prove your allegations? Even if it true so what? The US and NATO have been doing that for ages hence the term war by proxies.
> 
> But what is your stake in all this?
> 
> Are you a neo-Nazi supporter?


I dont know any neo nazies. You‘re supporting and spreading russian disinformation. Are you a muppet?


----------



## BHAN85

Viet said:


> Totally faked
> I bet he gets some dollars from the kremlin $1.2 billion funds for propaganda and disinformation.
> If true why can’t you do the same? Why Putin fails to bribe Finland and Sweden politicians? You admit russians are too incompetent even in bribing others?



They are too poor bribing others.

It was I said in other posts in this thread.

War is the cheap poor choice, Russian choice.
Bribing is the expesive rich choice, Western choice.

USA f*cks Europe bribing European leaders, because they have money enough.
Russia f*cks Ukraine through war, because they dont have money enough. And they use low skilled soldiers and cheap old weapons.

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## gambit

Basel said:


> The coward US don't fight anyone who can hurt them back, they use dirty tactics to weaken their enemy and then wage wars / proxy wars, also in most adventure since WW-2 US preferred to go with it's allies to make sure that no one in world will dare to oppose their illegitimate actions.
> 
> USSR was peer power but Russia is not so now after weakening Russia since 1990 US is trying to cut down its military capabilities and sale of its military equipment as after Ukraine war many will see Russian equipment as junk, US is also trying to stop rise of China by all dirty means to avoid a peer in future.


It is funny that you would say that about US when you have Sun Tzu in your signature. Looks like we are the better student and applicator of Sun Tzu than you think.

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## thetutle

jhungary said:


> Well, generally the closer you are to the border state the closer you can see the different use of language, I have a friend who was born in Maine, and never been to Canada, but he speak and the word he uses are almost entirely Canadian. Although Canadian also uses both.


yeah, ok, but the friend in Maine, near Canada, uses "mom" right?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525796937651302400


MeFishToo said:


> Must’ve been a special-special forces attempt sending one guy and a nicely placed NLAW attacking an island with zero armor defending it. As far as I remember the russian claim was 50? dead and a several downed helicopters and planes. They just didnt care much, so lets document 1 casualty for a few seconds while holding the camera so the buildings are in the background.
> To bad the ukrainian assault was documented by drones and satelites long before Russia had time to fabricate anything.




The fact that the invading Ukrainians couldn't pick up their dead and weapons does reveals who got wiped out in that battle.

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## jhungary

thetutle said:


> yeah, ok, but the friend in Maine, near Canada, uses "mom" right?


He uses both.


----------



## thetutle

jhungary said:


> He uses both.


ok, interesting. thank you


----------



## jhungary

thetutle said:


> ok, interesting. thank you


Even in Canada, some people will say "Mom" but write "Mum", and some people will do the opposite. 

I think it's influence, well I dont know. All I can say is I uses both. I can't speak for anyone else.


----------



## Viet

BHAN85 said:


> They are too poor bribing others.
> 
> It was I said in other posts in this thread.
> 
> War is the cheap poor choice, Russian choice.
> Bribing is the expesive rich choice, Western choice.
> 
> USA f*cks Europe bribing European leaders, because they have money enough.
> Russia f*cks Ukraine through war, because they dont have money enough. And they use low skilled soldiers and cheap old weapons.


Don’t tell me Putin is poor. He receives billions euros for energy sales. Where is the money? He hides money at his ex wife and concubine? Probably the reason why his ex and con are sanctioned by the new package.


----------



## BHAN85

Viet said:


> Don’t tell me Putin is poor. He receives billions euros for energy sales. Where is the money?



Common people can't distinguish one million euros from 100 thousands millions euros.

Those are uncommon amounts hard to understand.

USA is richer than Russia, and can do better proposals to Kiev than Russia. I think it's pretty obvious.

And I think root reasons of the Ukraine conflict is money to Kiev elite, and it's not ideology related problems.

But maybe you believe Ukraine is in war because Kiev adore more the democracy and western freedom.

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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525824245162459137 bullfrog of SEAL 🤣🤣🤣💪💪💪🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺 


💪💪💪🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺🤣🤣🤣

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## BHAN85

BTW now it's official the Swedish and Finnish ask to join NATO.









Sweden approves NATO membership bid


Sweden Social Democrats have spoken in favor of the nation NATO membership application Read Full Article at RTcom




www.bignewsnetwork.com





They waited to announce it after Eurovision show .
Maybe they think they will get more popular support now that Ukraine has won.


----------



## MeFishToo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525796937651302400
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that the invading Ukrainians couldn't pick up their dead and weapons does reveals who got wiped out in that battle.


Even If that guy was ukrainian he wasnt alive when the russians placed him on the island. Ukraine bombed the place from the air, its all documented. Stop pretending you believe these made up stories thriving amoung russian bots.


----------



## MeFishToo

DF41 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525824245162459137 bullfrog of SEAL 🤣🤣🤣💪💪💪🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺
> 
> 
> 💪💪💪🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺🤣🤣🤣


Nice picture of someone with a hat covering most of his face, and then comparing him with a 10 year old picture of a retired american soldier today over 70 years old. This is becomming ridiculous.

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## thetutle

MeFishToo said:


> Nice picture of someone with a hat covering most of his face, and then comparing him with a 10 year old picture of a retired american soldier today over 70 years old. This is becomming ridiculous.


thats all they have. just cheap propaganda from the guys in a warehouse in suburban Moscow. you get what you pay for. 

But even if they have an American general, which they dont, its fine, they should torture him on live TV. What better way to end the war quickly.

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## Oublious

jamahir said:


> You are right, I have never seen an air filter on a helicopter in my life and so I am stupid  but what about you who believed that an air filter was a washing machine ?




So if that person says go jump from a building you are dumb enough to jump, the picture shows neither it is a air filter. He thinks...







and this is a airfilter of a helicopter looks like....










Donaldson Inlet Barrier Filters (IBF) EASA certified


Donaldson Inlet Barrier Filters - IBF: extend engine life and reduce program operating costs. The EASA-certified filters fit on Airbus, Bell, Leonardo and MD helicopters, Sikorsky, UH-60-APU, AH-64A and Ch-47.




nedaero.com







you are still a dumb person....


----------



## Primus

Oublious said:


> So if that person says go jump from a building you are dumb enough to jump, the picture shows neither it is a air filter. He thinks...
> 
> View attachment 844286
> 
> 
> 
> and this is a airfilter of a helicopter looks like....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donaldson Inlet Barrier Filters (IBF) EASA certified
> 
> 
> Donaldson Inlet Barrier Filters - IBF: extend engine life and reduce program operating costs. The EASA-certified filters fit on Airbus, Bell, Leonardo and MD helicopters, Sikorsky, UH-60-APU, AH-64A and Ch-47.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nedaero.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you are still a dumb person....


And you arent dumb for believing a whole *** washing machine was being hauled by a Mi28 Attack helicopter?

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## A.P. Richelieu

Apollon said:


> Sweden just voted to join NATO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sweden to seek broad support for NATO membership
> 
> 
> Swedish Prime Minister Magdalena Andersson will seek broad support for an application to join NATO on Monday, she announced on Sunday after her party dropped its long-standing opposition to membership in the wake of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com


No it didn’t.
That is the leading party.
Voting will be tomorrow.









‘They were furious’: the Russian soldiers refusing to fight in Ukraine


Troops are saying no to officers, knowing that punishment is light while Russia is not technically at war




www.theguardian.com





They were furious’: the Russian soldiers refusing to fight in Ukraine​Troops are saying no to officers, knowing that punishment is light while Russia is not technically at war​Pjotr Sauer





Many Russian soldiers would rather be dismissed or transferred than fight in Ukraine. Photograph: Alexander Nemenov/AFP/Getty Images
When the soldiers of an elite Russian army brigade were told in early April to prepare for a second deployment to Ukraine, fear broke out among the ranks.

The unit, stationed in Russia’s far east during peacetime, first entered Ukraine from Belarus when the war started at the end of February and saw bitter combat with Ukrainian forces.



“It soon became clear that not everyone was onboard with it. Many of us simply did not want to go back,” said Dmitri, a member of the unit who asked not to be identified with his real name. “I want to return to my family – and not in a casket.”

Along with eight others, Dmitri told his commanders that he refused to rejoin the invasion. “They were furious. But they eventually calmed down because there wasn’t much they could do,” he said.

He was soon transferred to Belgorod, a Russian city close to the border with Ukraine, where he has been stationed since. “I have served for five years in the army. My contract ends in June. I will serve my remaining time and then I am out of here,” he said. “I have nothing to be ashamed of. We aren’t officially in a state of war, so they could not force me to go.”

Dmitri’s refusal to fight highlights some of the military difficulties the Russian army has faced as a result of the Kremlin’s political decision not to formally declare war on Ukraine – preferring instead to describe the invasion, which will soon reach its fourth month, as a “special military operation”.

Under Russian military rules, troops who refuse to fight in Ukraine can face dismissal but cannot be prosecuted, said Mikhail Benyash, a lawyer who has been advising soldiers who choose that option.

Benyash said “hundreds and hundreds” of soldiers had been in touch with his team for advice on how they could avoid being sent to fight. Among them were 12 national guardsmen from Russia’s southern city of Krasnodar who were fired after refusing to go to Ukraine.

“Commanders try to threaten their soldiers with prison time if they dissent, but we tell the soldiers that they can simply say no,” Benyash said, adding that he was not aware of any criminal cases against soldiers who refused to fight. “There are no legal grounds to start a criminal case if a soldier refuses to fight while on Russian territory.”

Many soldiers, therefore, have chosen to be fired or transferred rather than going into “the meat grinder”, he said.

A similar account to Dmitri’s was given to the BBC’s Russian service by Sergey Bokov, a 23-year-old soldier who at the end of April decided to leave the army after fighting in Ukraine. “Our commanders didn’t even argue with us because we were not the first ones to leave,” Bokov said.

Pointing to Russia’s military laws, Benyash said it would be more difficult for soldiers to refuse to fight if Russia were to declare a full-scale war. “During wartime, rules are totally different. Refusal then would mean much harsher penalties. They would be looking at time in prison.”

While the exact number of soldiers refusing to fight remains unclear, such stories illustrate what military experts and western governments say is one of Russia’s biggest obstacles in Ukraine: a severe shortage of infantry soldiers.

Moscow initially put about 80% of its main ground combat forces – 150,000 men – into the war in February, according to western officials. But significant damage has been done to that army, which has confronted logistical problems, poor morale and an underestimated Ukrainian resistance.

“Putin needs to make a decision regarding mobilisation in the coming weeks,” said Rob Lee, a military analyst. “Russia lacks sufficient ground units with contract soldiers for a sustainable rotation. The troops are getting exhausted – they won’t be able to keep this up for a long period.”

Lee said one option for the Kremlin would be to authorise the deployment of conscript units to Ukraine, despite Putin’s earlier pledges that Russia would not use any conscripts in the war. “Conscripts could fill some of the gaps, but they will be poorly trained. Many of the units that are supposed to train conscripts are fighting themselves,” Lee said.

But without conscript battalions, Russia could soon “struggle to hold the territory it currently controls in Ukraine, especially as Ukraine receives better equipment from Nato,” he said.

Russian authorities quietly stepped up their efforts to recruit new soldiers as it became clear that a quick victory in Ukraine was unattainable.

An investigation by the BBC’s Russian service showed that Russia’s defence ministry filled employment websites with vacancies, offering people with no combat experience opportunities to join the army on lucrative short-term contracts. Some large government-run companies have received letters urging them to sign up their staff for the army.

Russia has also turned to mercenaries to bolster its war efforts, deploying fighters from the shadowy Kremlin-linked Wagner group.

But analysts say voluntary recruits and mercenary groups are unlikely to lead to a substantial increase in the number of new soldiers, compared with the numbers that a partial or a full-scale mobilisation would bring.

Despite speculation beforehand, Putin did not formally declare war on Ukraineduring his Victory Day speech on 9 May.

Andrei Kolesnikov, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment, said the authorities may be worried that a general mobilisation would antagonise large sections of the population that support the “special operation”.

Russians “might be in favour of the conflict, but they don’t actually want to fight,” he said, adding that a general mobilisation would entail “colossal losses of untrained soldiers”.

And while the current status of the conflict gives Russian soldiers a legal path to refuse participation, some soldiers have complained that it has also led to them not being adequately cared for.

A junior sergeant said he was injured during one of the recent Ukrainian attacks on the Russian border territory where he was stationed. His superiors argued that he should not be given the monetary compensation of up to £2,500 that wounded Russians are entitled to by law because his injury took place on Russian soil – meaning it did not fall under the rules of Russia’s “special military operation”.

“It is unfair, I am fighting in this war just as the others in Ukraine, risking my life,” the soldier said. “If I don’t get the compensation that I am entitled to soon, I will go public and make a major issue of it.”

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## fallschirmjager786

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> These are the remnants of the corpses of the Judea-controlled Ukrainian forces in the Snake Island. You can see their corpses and the NATO-provided atgms.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525735547301396480




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525815162510446592

Russians passing off their own dead as Ukrainians. No surprise. Didn't even take the time to edit the buckles out. Cue random NLAW/JAV used cannister, wonder what kind of Tank they were expecting to encounter on the Island. I'd be more convinced if they actually had shown pictures of MANPADS which is what any raiding unit would carry to encounter enemy helos and planes.

Their not even making an effort with the propaganda anymore.

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## DF41

DF41 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525824245162459137 bullfrog of SEAL 🤣🤣🤣💪💪💪🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺
> 
> 
> 💪💪💪🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺🤣🤣🤣




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525822042053951491


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525881896168828928

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525881282273615873

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## DF41

Hear the evil strategies of US from someone who was involved.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

fallschirmjager786 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525815162510446592
> 
> Russians passing off their own dead as Ukrainians. No surprise. Didn't even take the time to edit the buckles out. Cue random NLAW/JAV used cannister, wonder what kind of Tank they were expecting to encounter on the Island. I'd be more convinced if they actually had shown pictures of MANPADS which is what any raiding unit would carry to encounter enemy helos and planes.
> 
> Their not even making an effort with the propaganda anymore.



Damage control, eh? How about this? 👇



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525866847140302848

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## A.P. Richelieu

DF41 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525822042053951491


Apparently Roger Cloutier is in Turkey. His Capture was claimed a month ago.









PolitiFact - No, NATO Allied Land Command leader wasn’t captured by Russians in Ukraine


The Russian invasion of Ukraine has sparked another baseless internet rumor, this time about the alleged capture of a to




www.politifact.com

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## fallschirmjager786

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Damage control, eh? How about this? 👇
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525866847140302848



Thats from the mainland. There will be captured soldiers, Ukrainian war dead. No doubt. Still waiting for Ukrainian dead from Snake Island within the past week. Thats the post that you posted yourself. Do you admit that was fake then??

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## Type59

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525590074834178048


He's not bothered about dead UKR soldiers.

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## Flight of falcon

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Do you think there is any sane person who is gonna fall for the repeated nonsense that the British government's MOD puts out?




Saddam had a nuclear weapons program......enogh said.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525765125751422976




And Saddam had nuclear bombs....

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## alimobin memon

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> This has actually happened in the Zaporizhia Oblast. 300 Ukrainians killed in one battle! The Judea-controlled Ukrainian forces have taken a beating in the Zaporizhia Oblast. A good day for the Russian liberators.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525764691825283072


Media is so manipulative. First it said ukraine has taken bake kharkiv and now this.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525859108770938881

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## sammuel

BHAN85 said:


> BTW now it's official the Swedish and Finnish ask to join NATO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sweden approves NATO membership bid
> 
> 
> Sweden Social Democrats have spoken in favor of the nation NATO membership application Read Full Article at RTcom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bignewsnetwork.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They waited to announce it after Eurovision show .
> Maybe they think they will get more popular support now that Ukraine has won.








~

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525915030109175809

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525917971943653383

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525854072628207623

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## Flight of falcon

Ukraine or what's left of it is going down fast.....some reasonable assessment









Ukraine Is in Worse Shape than You Think


It has been said that, given how massively Ukrainian troops were believed be outmatched early in Russia’s invasion, not losing the war is itself a form of victory for Ukraine. The difference between expectations and the surprising resilience of Ukraine’s military makes it easy to misinterpret...




ca.news.yahoo.com


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525917971943653383

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525907132092129281
 EU has capitulated to Russian demands. 

Russia has defied the dollar-based fiat money and Euro on gas exports, but after so much noise, the EU has finally capitulated. This is a major blow against the dollar & EURO-based transactions for the hydrocarbon trades. A win for Putin.

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## kingQamaR

Flight of falcon said:


> Ukraine or what's left of it is going down fast.....some reasonable assessment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine Is in Worse Shape than You Think
> 
> 
> It has been said that, given how massively Ukrainian troops were believed be outmatched early in Russia’s invasion, not losing the war is itself a form of victory for Ukraine. The difference between expectations and the surprising resilience of Ukraine’s military makes it easy to misinterpret...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ca.news.yahoo.com



and that's not all: the US and Dutch heavy guns, with longer range than Russian artillery have joined Czech multiple rocket launchers and 200 Polish tanks on the front lines....more stuff on the way so you see kiev is getting upper hand


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525909187708043266
400 Russian soldiers killed and wounded at the river crossing

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## Flight of falcon

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525909187708043266
> 400 Russian soldiers killed and wounded at the river crossing




No it was 1400 dead two days back….What happened to the other 1000??
Who makes up these random numbers ?

. We should see piles of Dead bodies yet we hardly see any dead Russian soldiers .

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## Broccoli

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525917971943653383



Now let's compare those numbers with what Ukraine has before war begun.








Ukrainian Air Force - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Amazing how Russians shoot down more fighters and helicopters than what Ukraine ever had and Ukrainians are still flying... Russian propaganda is so bad or maybe they are downing their own equipment.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525924545034698754


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525922817253990406


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525900772508061704

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525910437015044098

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525845407657562113

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525916711534329857


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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525900772508061704





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525927476693815297

You have no shame.

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## Primus

Flight of falcon said:


> No it was 1400 dead two days back….What happened to the other 1000??
> Who makes up these random numbers ?
> 
> . We should see piles of Dead bodies yet we hardly see any dead Russian soldiers .


No one actually knows what happened at the river crossing. According to Ukraine and its allies, an entiee Russian BTG was wiped out. According to Russuan and its allies, there was a battle between Rus and Ukr forces in which Ukr forces were wiped out. All i know is, its all propaganda to me.

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525927476693815297
> 
> You have no shame.




Russia lost the Battle of Kyiv, lost the Battle of Kharkiv, and now its forces have stalled out in the east and close to culminating. And their losing huge amounts of armor and soldiers.

Reality will eventually set in for you.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525854072628207623




This army is winning? 👇 Give me a break! Talk is cheap.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525805285088034817

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525805287017431041

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525905998514376704

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525928295350558723
Ukrainian forces reaching the Russian border

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## Ali_Baba

Battle of Kherson is also raging and Ukranian forces are slowly pushing back Russian forces there aswell. A fake referendum is not going to help Russia there at all.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525874900229140482


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## Vergennes

The Ukrainian army has crossed the Donets river and is preparing to attack Izyum from Kharkiv. By the flank.

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## F-22Raptor

It looks like the US Senate wants to pass the new $40B package for Ukraine by the end of the week. The House already passed it. Roughly half of that will supply Ukraines military. That should cover the next 6 months.

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## _Nabil_

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Are you aware that to be a war crime, you have to intentionally attack a target which *you know* has zero military value.
> 
> I specifically asked for videos of people not engaging in activity which could be suspicious.
> The drone attack was on people suspected of preparing an attack on innocent civilians.
> 
> Such attacks are legal because of the many war crimes committed by the Talibans where they make attacks while dressed as civilians.
> 
> How many Talibans have been convicted by the Talibans for their war crimes?
> 
> So far, one propaganda video which turned out to be fake has been shown. Then a legal attack, albeit a mistake has been mentioned.
> It appear that there are not an abundance of videos around.
> 
> View attachment 843962


You are a pathetic retarded .....
















Israeli Strike Kills Four Boys Playing on Gaza Beach


Four boys who were playing on a beach in Gaza were killed by an Israeli barrage today, the latest grim fatalities in the aerial battle between Israel and the militant group Hamas.




www.google.com




4 boys 9-11 years old playing on the beach ....

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## Flight of falcon

_Nabil_ said:


> You are a pathetic retarded .....
> 
> 
> View attachment 844334
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli Strike Kills Four Boys Playing on Gaza Beach
> 
> 
> Four boys who were playing on a beach in Gaza were killed by an Israeli barrage today, the latest grim fatalities in the aerial battle between Israel and the militant group Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4 boys 9-11 years old playing on the beach ....



It’s not his fault . Israelis are taught from grade 1 that the Arabs are your enemy and kill them in every way possible especially their kids .

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525965369193766914

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## A.P. Richelieu

_Nabil_ said:


> You are a pathetic retarded .....
> 
> 
> View attachment 844334
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli Strike Kills Four Boys Playing on Gaza Beach
> 
> 
> Four boys who were playing on a beach in Gaza were killed by an Israeli barrage today, the latest grim fatalities in the aerial battle between Israel and the militant group Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4 boys 9-11 years old playing on the beach ....


And IIRC, they were attacked by a navy vessel, only visible on a thermal imager in the middle of a war zone.

As for the kid, it is not known who killed him. It is known that he was killed in the middle of a firefight.









Killing of Muhammad al-Durrah - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525655976010997760


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## Paul2

Russians again tried a push across Popasna-Lysichansk line today


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## Wergeland

A.P. Richelieu said:


> And IIRC, they were attacked by a navy vessel, only visible on a thermal imager in the middle of a war zone.



You mean like the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians that has been force evicted from their ancestral homes since Israel was founded. Or the settlements that are being built in occupied territories, every single year?

You are against Russian occupation of Ukraine i assume? What makes you support occupation and opression of Palestians ?

Everyone here is observing the double standards and hypocrisy.

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## _Nabil_

Apollon said:


> Greece does not live in borrowed money. We paid back the last tranche this year.


Lolz, lying as usual, you just paid the IMF loans (in advance) because their interest are higher than the European one's (with preamble authorisation of EU Institutions)

You still have debts till 2060 ....

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## F-22Raptor

We're beginning to see a noticeable rise in Ukrainian air power.


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## A.P. Richelieu

Wergeland said:


> You mean like the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians that has been force evicted from their ancestral homes since Israel was founded. Or the settlements that are being built in occupied territories, every single year?
> 
> You are against Russian occupation of Ukraine i assume? What makes you support occupation and opression of Palestians ?
> 
> Everyone here is observing the double standards and hypocrisy.


I like the rest of the EU support a two state solution within secure borders.

What makes you support the war crimes of the Palestinians?


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## Wergeland

A.P. Richelieu said:


> I like the rest of the EU support a two state solution within secure borders.
> 
> What makes you support the war crimes of the Palestinians?



What makes you think i am?
War crimes are illegal reagardless of whom is the culprit, muslim or jew, black or white, palestinian or israeli.

Europe and America have two state solution as lip service. But reality shows that Israel is never punished for killing viability of two state solition. Quite the opposite, Israel continues to be supported by US and Europe, with both economic and millitary assistance.

We are talking about small Ukraine vs Big Russia, David Vs Goliath, but that is even more appearent in the struggle of Palestinians who are not up alone against only the Israelis, but in fact also their massive support network in the west. Comprising of rich zionist jews all over America, Hollywood, IT… and US political class who cannot to even critize Israel if they want re-election. Europe of course bandwagon the US and UK.

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> We're beginning to see a noticeable rise in Ukrainian air power.



Interesting - Not heard of Ukraine of any jets being delivered to them recently etc. Do share.


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## jamal18

A.P. Richelieu said:


> And IIRC, they were attacked by a navy vessel, only visible on a thermal imager in the middle of a war zone.
> 
> As for the kid, it is not known who killed him. It is known that he was killed in the middle of a firefight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Killing of Muhammad al-Durrah - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


Your level of bullshit is insane.

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## Hamartia Antidote

The SC said:


> A summary of what's going on in and around Ukraine:
> 
> Ukraine: Russians withdraw from around Kharkiv, batter east​
> https://apnews.com/article/russia-u...n=SocialFlow&utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter



Thanks! We need some daily status updates for those of us not following this thread page to page


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## _Nabil_

RoadAmerica said:


> We’ll be saying the same about Ukraine


Then shut up for 20 years and let the Russians do the same thing to Ukrainians as American did to Afghans....


A.P. Richelieu said:


> And IIRC, they were attacked by a navy vessel, only visible on a thermal imager in the middle of a war zone.
> 
> As for the kid, it is not known who killed him. It is known that he was killed in the middle of a firefight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Killing of Muhammad al-Durrah - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


You aren't just retarded, you are a filthy zio Hypocrite.

It's a war zone for Zio terrorists army and killing kids is fine, but for Russians it's a war crime to kill Ukrainians civilians.

The ABC news stated first shot killed one of the group of 5 kids, the kids run to the sea, second shot killed 3 and 1 in critical condition. No firefight occurred during the termination of the kids, you are just blatantly lying .

Again kids 9-11 years old, ...... Fûck you and the zio terrorist state altogether ......

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## CAPRICORN-88

MeFishToo said:


> I dont know any neo nazies. You‘re supporting and spreading russian disinformation. Are you a muppet?


Wikipedia is Russia disinformation according to you and so what else is new with your wild allegation?

If you are muppet, what character would you be, I wonder?

Now you imagine you are a fish.
No wonder there is something fishy about you.


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## thetutle

A.P. Richelieu said:


> And IIRC, they were attacked by a navy vessel, only visible on a thermal imager in the middle of a war zone.
> 
> As for the kid, it is not known who killed him. It is known that he was killed in the middle of a firefight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Killing of Muhammad al-Durrah - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


Can you please ban yourself from this forum and seek professional help?

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## CAPRICORN-88

MeFishToo said:


> Nice picture of someone with a hat covering most of his face, and then comparing him with a 10 year old picture of a retired american soldier today over 70 years old. This is becomming ridiculous.


*Yet the American elected an almost 80 year old to be the commander in chief and President of USA. *

Is the message getting to your fishy head?


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## CAPRICORN-88

Huffal said:


> No one actually knows what happened at the river crossing. According to Ukraine and its allies, an entiee Russian BTG was wiped out. According to Russuan and its allies, there was a battle between Rus and Ukr forces in which Ukr forces were wiped out. All i know is, its all propaganda to me.


If I were you, I will take this news along with the imaginary and made believe victory by Ukrainian Forces at Kharkiv with a grain of salt.

What I heard was, it never happened. It was just a strategic Russia redeployment which is quite normal in this war. Russia does it all the time to their advantage.

They did it in Kyiv and the Ukrainian immediately posted it as a successful repulsion. I see no evidence of all their claims.

At the same time I also read that platoons of Ukrainian forces attempting similar river crossing were foiled by Russian artilleries with heavy casualties. Similarly I did not post any of these as all these are uncorroborated.

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## wahhab0202

Some members here has been proven to be precise in their prediction. Few weeks back I thought this will be the end of Russian economy. But militarily Russians have a very, very long way to go.


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525917971943653383
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525907132092129281
> EU has capitulated to Russian demands.
> 
> Russia has defied the dollar-based fiat money and Euro on gas exports, but after so much noise, the EU has finally capitulated. This is a major blow against the dollar & EURO-based transactions for the hydrocarbon trades. A win for Putin.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Russia-Ukraine live news: NATO chief says Kyiv ‘can win this war’​_NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg says the Ukraine war ‘is not going as Moscow had planned’ as Russian forces pummel eastern Donbas._
By Sasha Petrova and Federica Marsi
Published On 15 May 202215 May 2022

Al Jazeera.

No wonder Zalensky does not want to seek PEACE, he is mesmerised and really believe he can WIN this war backed by NATO Sec Gen Jens Stoltenberg.

They called it *Positive Thinking* but many are wondering why it did not work for them after paying thousands of dollar enrolling and attending these courses.


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## PakFactor

jhungary said:


> Were you asking why NCO is the backbone of every army or were you asking why Russia don't have an NCO corps?
> 
> Well, the reason why NCO corps are backbone of every army because it give you the flexibility to make your unit organic. There are two type of NCO, the professional soldier (the leader) and the Specialist (the technician) where it is common for soldier to climb the rank when you are up the ladder, you accumulated combat experience (or other experience if you are a specialist) but not leadership experience, giving command structure to NCO to have the flexibility to do what the NCO leader want means less work load for the guy in charge, and that don't just go at Platoon level, but Company level, Battalion level to even Brigade level.
> 
> Why? Take US Army as an example. The basic unit for deployment is Brigade Combat Team (BCT) which mean when you are deploy the 4000 or so men from the same Brigade will be deploy together, but being deployed together does not mean you are going to fight together, each Battalion in a single Brigade would be assigned to a certain Area of Operation (AO) and within each AO, you have Company and Platoon deployed independently with each other, so you can cover more ground instead of sending all the men in a giant blob of 4000 men.
> 
> So why NCO is important? Each Company have a Company First Sergeant (E-7), each Platoon have a platoon Sergeant (E-6) and each fireteam have a buck sergeant (E-5) each squad is commanded by a Corporal (E-4) so when a Platoon Leader (2LT) gave order, each unit within that Platoon (3 Fireteams, 6 Squad + 1 Heavy Weapon Squad) can take individual initiative so the buck sergeant can tell their squad where to go because they are the one that was fighting in that battlespace, they know better than the 2LT who in in charge of the entire battlefield, say for example, if I have to micromanage a squad, I would be at that squad and seeing what that Buck Sergeant see and make decision that way, if I do that, me as a Platoon Leader would lose the big picture because I am not looking at the overall situation, I am looking at that particular part of Battlefield. But If I delegate duty to that Fireteam leader and he in turn delegate that mission to his squad, then I am free to move my troop as will, and not bound by every little detail in the battlefield.
> 
> On the other hand, NCO or SNCO are also act as a mentor to the command structure, because the way they are organised. an NCO would have more experience than the person who command that unit. An O-3 commanding a Company would have 5-9 years of experience, a E-7 would have been in the army for almost 20 years An O-1/2 commanding a platoon would have less than 2 years of experience in the army, a platoon sergeant (E-6) would have 10+ year, which mean they are also a source of information, where you have the command, but don't have the experience, they compensate it by supplying their experience.
> 
> Russia do not have a functioning NCO corps. Their sergeant are most or less specialist and veteran which simply rose thru the rank. Which mean the company commander would have to micromanage every move and hence generally losing sight of the big picture. This is also why there are a quite a lot General got killed in this war because there are no one to oversee the battle, The small picture were not oversee by NCO because they don't have NCO. the big picture is not oversee by junior officer because they need to deal with the small picture, which mean the chain of command would have to be personally involved if there battle plan have to alter, which mean you have more General or Colonel in the firing line dealing with stuff Junior Officer are supposed to deal with, but they can't because they are busy dealing with every little thing in different corner of the battlefield. Which mean a company in Russia can take on less ground than a company in the US. Which I don't think I need to tell you, this is a bad thing.
> 
> As for why Russian Army does not have a NCO Corps? Well, the Soviet Doctrine (What the Russian followed) does not like splitting up power like that, all power are centralised, much like the government, you have an officer, and you have your troop, and when your troop disobey, the officer execute that man and make an example out of it, so how would it fare if you put Platoon Sergeant or Company sergeant in the mix? You now have 3 leaders instead of 1 (The Company CO). So who's order you are going to follow if you are a lowly soldier (or a conscript)
> 
> The officer corps in Russia have absolute power, that's how they reign in their men, this is their military tradition, officer gave order, soldier follow order. And it have not change since 1917.



Very well explained, thanks for the write up.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

​








Europe to activate Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline very soon​




by Ansh Pandey
May 14, 2022
in Europe, Geopolitics
Reading Time: 3 mins read
3



20.9k
VIEWS


On 22nd February, Germany decided to freeze the ‘Nord Stream 2’ gas pipeline which was beneficial to the whole of Europe as it can double the flow of Russian gas direct to Germany and Europe.
Now, the whole of Europe is in turmoil. Last week, it was reported that Ukraine has partially halted gas supplies to Europe. Ukraine on Tuesday said that it would suspend operations of the Novopskov compressor station that delivers around a third of gas piped from Russia to Europe via Ukraine.
Also *Read*​European Union comes up with a clever plan (to bypass its own sanctions on Russia)​
This is a huge setback for the European gas industry because Ukraine’s assistance is pivotal for its overall energy security. The Ukraine gas transit system in the Luhansk region accounts for the supply of around 32.6 million cubic meters of Russian gas every day to Europe.
If the Novopskov compressor station in the Luhansk region of eastern Ukraine remains inoperative for a longer period, then we could see yet another phase of the fuel price spike in the European Continent. So, this move by Ukraine could very well trigger Europe to rethink its decision of suspending Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline.

There are chances of acute gas shortages and chances of a recession hitting the entire continent. The decision to avoid Russian gas and fuel has to be the silliest mistake the bloc has ever done.

But, now Europe is coming back to its senses as nations have started softening their stances in the war. Furthermore, several members of the bloc are reluctant to impose more sanctions on Russia. Slowly and steadily, the chances are rising that Europe may soon think to re-activate the Nord Stream 2 project.

*Potential of The Project*​The Nord Stream 2 is an underwater twin pipeline with a length of 1,230 kilometers, it follows the route of the existing Nord Stream twin pipeline underneath the Baltic Sea with a capacity to run 110 billion cubic meters of gas a year.

Once completed, the Gazprom could have easily sent gas to Europe’s pipeline system without using existing pipelines running through Ukraine and Poland.




Source- Euronews
It could have lowered the costs to European pockets by saving transit fees paid to Ukraine and avoiding episodes of brief cutoffs over price and payment disputes between Russia and Ukraine.

But, Germany halted the project, and look where the bloc stands now. Episodes of brief cut-offs are looming in Europe and no alternative is visible insight.

Yesterday, Russia curbed gas supplies to Germany in a warning for Europe. Moscow’s move slashed deliveries by about 3% of German imports impacting the cost of living which is already a major issue in Europe.

*Read More: **Miffed at EU’s cold response, now Ukraine stops Russian gas supplies to Europe*

*Sense Prevailing*​The latest actions are indicating that Europe may finally have understood its mistake as it has started rolling back on a few decisions.

For instance, several EU nations have raised concern over new sanctions by European Union. Countries like Hungary have decided to veto the sanctions. Whereas, other countries have also raised concerns.






Furthermore, most nations have also accepted Gazprom’s demand for payment in rubles. A few governments have to indirectly soften their stance as cost-of-living is hitting hard on the civilians. Germany to be precise is softening its stance as the german chancellor Olaf Scholz is losing support from the people.

In addition, most of the industries in the European nations have economic machinery and structure designed to operate only on Russian oil. Shifting to alternatives may reduce the efficacy of the machinery.

The pressure is mounting over the bloc to reduce the impact generated in aftermath of the war, whatever it takes. And honestly, no other option other than restarting Nord Stream 2 is preferable to the bloc.

*Read More: **After Biden’s reign is over, Europe and Russia will become the best friends forever*

Sooner or later, most of the bloc nations will realize that there are no alternatives to Russian oil and gas and in the end, Europe needs Russia more than anyone else.

So, there are really good chances that the Nord Stream 2 may get restarted very soon as it is the only project that has the potential to help Europe recover as soon as possible from the mess that is created by its own action.

Tf Global News

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Haha Haha:
2


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## The SC

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Russia-Ukraine live news: NATO chief says Kyiv ‘can win this war’​_NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg says the Ukraine war ‘is not going as Moscow had planned’ as Russian forces pummel eastern Donbas._
> By Sasha Petrova and Federica Marsi
> Published On 15 May 202215 May 2022
> 
> Al Jazeera.
> 
> No wonder Zalensky does not want to seek PEACE, he is mesmerised and really believe he can WIN this war backed by NATO Sec Gen Jens Stoltenberg.
> 
> They called it *Positive Thinking* but many are wondering why it did not work for them after paying thousands of dollar enrolling and attending these courses.


Positive thinking not based on rationality is fake.. because it still stems from negative thinking projected as positive.. it just doesn't work..

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
2


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## CAPRICORN-88

The SC said:


> Positive thinking not based on rationality is fake.. because it still stems from negative thinking projected as positive.. it just doesn't work..


That is why the Ukraine war will continue until the final outcome.

And rational thinking community within this forum understand what will be the endgame.
Disinformation cannot win a war for Zalensky. It may created negative opinion against the Russian but at the same time burn a big hole in tbeir pocket.

Asians choose the middle path and we are neither the winner nor the loser.

We only hope that the economic war of attrition won't affects us as much as they are affecting the parties involved.

There can only be one loser but they won't acknowledge it today.

So they choose Positive Thinking as the way forward. As you says, it is not working for th either.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525898236069875714

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525872926477672448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525867288590798850

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525855481910149125

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525796937651302400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525884211000901632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525765796911267840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525952841604636680


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526028070603194368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526025686011392000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526023055427764225

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526016748981407745

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525957005839572993
Oops, it looks like Judea-controlled Ukraine is finally exposing itself. Many of the forces hold up in Azovtal are Jews. There are many more who have not been unacknowledged yet.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526041453948030982

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526032899954319362

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526019346937815040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525764691825283072


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525988708121444353
They thought only Russia would be hurt in their stupid sanctions.

hehe


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525969499513552896


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525986006452817921

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525986010164862977


----------



## wahhab0202

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Europe to activate Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline very soon​
> 
> 
> 
> by Ansh Pandey
> May 14, 2022
> in Europe, Geopolitics
> Reading Time: 3 mins read
> 3
> 
> 
> 
> 20.9k
> VIEWS
> 
> 
> On 22nd February, Germany decided to freeze the ‘Nord Stream 2’ gas pipeline which was beneficial to the whole of Europe as it can double the flow of Russian gas direct to Germany and Europe.
> Now, the whole of Europe is in turmoil. Last week, it was reported that Ukraine has partially halted gas supplies to Europe. Ukraine on Tuesday said that it would suspend operations of the Novopskov compressor station that delivers around a third of gas piped from Russia to Europe via Ukraine.
> Also *Read*​European Union comes up with a clever plan (to bypass its own sanctions on Russia)​
> This is a huge setback for the European gas industry because Ukraine’s assistance is pivotal for its overall energy security. The Ukraine gas transit system in the Luhansk region accounts for the supply of around 32.6 million cubic meters of Russian gas every day to Europe.
> If the Novopskov compressor station in the Luhansk region of eastern Ukraine remains inoperative for a longer period, then we could see yet another phase of the fuel price spike in the European Continent. So, this move by Ukraine could very well trigger Europe to rethink its decision of suspending Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline.
> 
> There are chances of acute gas shortages and chances of a recession hitting the entire continent. The decision to avoid Russian gas and fuel has to be the silliest mistake the bloc has ever done.
> 
> But, now Europe is coming back to its senses as nations have started softening their stances in the war. Furthermore, several members of the bloc are reluctant to impose more sanctions on Russia. Slowly and steadily, the chances are rising that Europe may soon think to re-activate the Nord Stream 2 project.
> 
> *Potential of The Project*​The Nord Stream 2 is an underwater twin pipeline with a length of 1,230 kilometers, it follows the route of the existing Nord Stream twin pipeline underneath the Baltic Sea with a capacity to run 110 billion cubic meters of gas a year.
> 
> Once completed, the Gazprom could have easily sent gas to Europe’s pipeline system without using existing pipelines running through Ukraine and Poland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source- Euronews
> It could have lowered the costs to European pockets by saving transit fees paid to Ukraine and avoiding episodes of brief cutoffs over price and payment disputes between Russia and Ukraine.
> 
> But, Germany halted the project, and look where the bloc stands now. Episodes of brief cut-offs are looming in Europe and no alternative is visible insight.
> 
> Yesterday, Russia curbed gas supplies to Germany in a warning for Europe. Moscow’s move slashed deliveries by about 3% of German imports impacting the cost of living which is already a major issue in Europe.
> 
> *Read More: **Miffed at EU’s cold response, now Ukraine stops Russian gas supplies to Europe*
> 
> *Sense Prevailing*​The latest actions are indicating that Europe may finally have understood its mistake as it has started rolling back on a few decisions.
> 
> For instance, several EU nations have raised concern over new sanctions by European Union. Countries like Hungary have decided to veto the sanctions. Whereas, other countries have also raised concerns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Furthermore, most nations have also accepted Gazprom’s demand for payment in rubles. A few governments have to indirectly soften their stance as cost-of-living is hitting hard on the civilians. Germany to be precise is softening its stance as the german chancellor Olaf Scholz is losing support from the people.
> 
> In addition, most of the industries in the European nations have economic machinery and structure designed to operate only on Russian oil. Shifting to alternatives may reduce the efficacy of the machinery.
> 
> The pressure is mounting over the bloc to reduce the impact generated in aftermath of the war, whatever it takes. And honestly, no other option other than restarting Nord Stream 2 is preferable to the bloc.
> 
> *Read More: **After Biden’s reign is over, Europe and Russia will become the best friends forever*
> 
> Sooner or later, most of the bloc nations will realize that there are no alternatives to Russian oil and gas and in the end, Europe needs Russia more than anyone else.
> 
> So, there are really good chances that the Nord Stream 2 may get restarted very soon as it is the only project that has the potential to help Europe recover as soon as possible from the mess that is created by its own action.
> 
> Tf Global News


If true, that would be a very sensible move from EU. The well being of their citizen is numero uno priority.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


----------



## mmr

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Europe to activate Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline very soon​
> 
> 
> 
> by Ansh Pandey
> May 14, 2022
> in Europe, Geopolitics
> Reading Time: 3 mins read
> 3
> 
> 
> 
> 20.9k
> VIEWS
> 
> 
> On 22nd February, Germany decided to freeze the ‘Nord Stream 2’ gas pipeline which was beneficial to the whole of Europe as it can double the flow of Russian gas direct to Germany and Europe.
> Now, the whole of Europe is in turmoil. Last week, it was reported that Ukraine has partially halted gas supplies to Europe. Ukraine on Tuesday said that it would suspend operations of the Novopskov compressor station that delivers around a third of gas piped from Russia to Europe via Ukraine.
> Also *Read*​European Union comes up with a clever plan (to bypass its own sanctions on Russia)​
> This is a huge setback for the European gas industry because Ukraine’s assistance is pivotal for its overall energy security. The Ukraine gas transit system in the Luhansk region accounts for the supply of around 32.6 million cubic meters of Russian gas every day to Europe.
> If the Novopskov compressor station in the Luhansk region of eastern Ukraine remains inoperative for a longer period, then we could see yet another phase of the fuel price spike in the European Continent. So, this move by Ukraine could very well trigger Europe to rethink its decision of suspending Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline.
> 
> There are chances of acute gas shortages and chances of a recession hitting the entire continent. The decision to avoid Russian gas and fuel has to be the silliest mistake the bloc has ever done.
> 
> But, now Europe is coming back to its senses as nations have started softening their stances in the war. Furthermore, several members of the bloc are reluctant to impose more sanctions on Russia. Slowly and steadily, the chances are rising that Europe may soon think to re-activate the Nord Stream 2 project.
> 
> *Potential of The Project*​The Nord Stream 2 is an underwater twin pipeline with a length of 1,230 kilometers, it follows the route of the existing Nord Stream twin pipeline underneath the Baltic Sea with a capacity to run 110 billion cubic meters of gas a year.
> 
> Once completed, the Gazprom could have easily sent gas to Europe’s pipeline system without using existing pipelines running through Ukraine and Poland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source- Euronews
> It could have lowered the costs to European pockets by saving transit fees paid to Ukraine and avoiding episodes of brief cutoffs over price and payment disputes between Russia and Ukraine.
> 
> But, Germany halted the project, and look where the bloc stands now. Episodes of brief cut-offs are looming in Europe and no alternative is visible insight.
> 
> Yesterday, Russia curbed gas supplies to Germany in a warning for Europe. Moscow’s move slashed deliveries by about 3% of German imports impacting the cost of living which is already a major issue in Europe.
> 
> *Read More: **Miffed at EU’s cold response, now Ukraine stops Russian gas supplies to Europe*
> 
> *Sense Prevailing*​The latest actions are indicating that Europe may finally have understood its mistake as it has started rolling back on a few decisions.
> 
> For instance, several EU nations have raised concern over new sanctions by European Union. Countries like Hungary have decided to veto the sanctions. Whereas, other countries have also raised concerns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Furthermore, most nations have also accepted Gazprom’s demand for payment in rubles. A few governments have to indirectly soften their stance as cost-of-living is hitting hard on the civilians. Germany to be precise is softening its stance as the german chancellor Olaf Scholz is losing support from the people.
> 
> In addition, most of the industries in the European nations have economic machinery and structure designed to operate only on Russian oil. Shifting to alternatives may reduce the efficacy of the machinery.
> 
> The pressure is mounting over the bloc to reduce the impact generated in aftermath of the war, whatever it takes. And honestly, no other option other than restarting Nord Stream 2 is preferable to the bloc.
> 
> *Read More: **After Biden’s reign is over, Europe and Russia will become the best friends forever*
> 
> Sooner or later, most of the bloc nations will realize that there are no alternatives to Russian oil and gas and in the end, Europe needs Russia more than anyone else.
> 
> So, there are really good chances that the Nord Stream 2 may get restarted very soon as it is the only project that has the potential to help Europe recover as soon as possible from the mess that is created by its own action.
> 
> Tf Global News


Lol if only pigs can fly


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525801340668366849

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525976595466289153


----------



## Apollon

wahhab0202 said:


> That would be a very sensible move from EU. The well ebing of their citizen numero uno priority.



Its bullshit. I live in Germany. NS2 is dead as is all other energy fro, russia. Foreign minister Baerbock just last week said she will bring energy imports from Russia down to zero.

Her party won massive in yesterday election in NRW.


Putinist russia is a threat for all of Europe. Energy prices are nothing compared to the threat to wake up one day in putins facist poverty empire. Its that simple.


Energy from Russia can only bevome a thing again when Russia had regime change 

Putinist Tussia is a threat


----------



## wahhab0202

Apollon said:


> Its bullshit. I live in Germany. NS2 is dead as is all other energy fro, russia. Foreign minister Baerbock just last week said she will bring energy imports from Russia down to zero.
> 
> Her party won massive in yesterday election in NRW.
> 
> 
> Putinist russia is a threat for all of Europe. Energy prices are nothing compared to the threat to wake up one day in putins facist poverty empire. Its that simple.
> 
> 
> Energy from Russia can only bevome a thing again when Russia had regime change
> 
> Putinist Tussia is a threat


EU seems to try to look to Africa for Russia's oil & gas substitution. How viable and reliable it is remain to be seen. It will be more costly for sure, but what do you think about the reliability of HC supplies from African countries?








Europe Looks To African Gas To Reduce Dependence On Russian Imports | OilPrice.com


African nations that have historically been gas suppliers to Europe are well placed to scale up their exports as Brussels looks to reduce its dependence on Russian gas




oilprice.com

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Soldier35

Russian BMPT "Terminator" appeared in Ukraine. The combat vehicle was spotted in the vicinity of the settlement of Severodonetsk. The Terminator BMPT is a tracked fire support vehicle with powerful weapons, modern fire control devices and high maneuverability. The tank support combat vehicle is designed to operate as part of tank units in order to defeat anti-tank weapons and enemy manpower.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## FairAndUnbiased

Elvin said:


> For all these arab and other Russian sympathizers please go to Russia next time you have a war or issue, don’t come to Europe and the US. Obviously most of you support Russia so go live there and see what Russia is lol.
> 
> Just imagine a world Russia or China rules…
> 
> All countries US defeated in Ww2 are today successful, wealthy and developed countries. How about Russia? Most are still playing catchup 30 years later lol.
> 
> China? Yeah nooo …


What about loyal US allies from the very beginning, like Mexico, Liberia and Philippines? All of them have been core US allies even before WW1. Liberia and Philippines pretty much copied US system.

How are they doing?

US only defeated 2 countries in WW2. Germany and Japan. Where's the all?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> What about loyal US allies from the very beginning, like Mexico, Liberia and Philippines? All of them have been core US allies even before WW1. Liberia and Philippines pretty much copied US system.
> 
> How are they doing?
> 
> US only defeated 2 countries in WW2. Germany and Japan. Where's the all?


3 countries. Germany, Italy and Japan.

Russian were never in Italy or North Africa...


----------



## Chen Jie

Soldier35 said:


> Russian BMPT "Terminator" appeared in Ukraine. The combat vehicle was spotted in the vicinity of the settlement of Severodonetsk. The Terminator BMPT is a tracked fire support vehicle with powerful weapons, modern fire control devices and high maneuverability. The tank support combat vehicle is designed to operate as part of tank units in order to defeat anti-tank weapons and enemy manpower.


Seems like Kherson Donetsk and Lugansk is going to get annexed by Russia. This war will last a long long time, and China is key to sustaining it. As long we buy resources from Russia, the Russia will keep on pumping out weapons. No wonder US is so desperate to pass the 40bil$ aid bill.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525865258757378048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525893563518701568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525850297247092737

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526063873916289024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526077132207693824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526078296970215424


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526075849354649602

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526075025203290114

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526011824516349953


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525991178549747712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525881450066759681

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525880380439527425

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526003051252916224


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525581070229454849

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525569184448630785

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525729739805274113


----------



## nufix

jhungary said:


> Well, we don't crush car for fun. And if you do, you *WILL* get court martialled. as per Article 109 UCMJ Wasting Or Spoiling Nonmilitary Property
> 
> There are 2 ways a US tank could have crush a car, tanks *ALWAYS HAVE RIGHT OF WAY* and cannot stop on a dime (well, you don't give way to a tank that's your business) so if car don't stop and collide with a tank, there is a pretty good chance your car is going to get crushed, and it is most likely your fault.
> 
> There are footage show that US force crush civilian car because he steal something with it. All equipment of a crime are destroyed to punish the looter, this is not US Rule, this is Iraqi rules, which consider their law call for cutting of thief's hand, losing a car is a lot better than losing a pair of hand.



You mean this one 



 ? 

Funnily enough I was actually anticipating this kind of answer but dont you find it funny that US fanboys will always try to find reasons left and right to justify their actions? 

In that video, US tankers were not only crushing the car but als shooting it like a bunch of rednecks on Friday night? Heck even the way they said "US tankers hooah!" kinda implied that they did it at least partially for fun.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525374008169930753

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525388694789554176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525957552449519616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525940612393861120


----------



## DF41

FairAndUnbiased said:


> US only defeated 2 countries in WW2. Germany and Japan. Where's the all?



USA had no hope of defeating even one of them and not to talk of both of them.


Just remember Murica won only 3 wars since WW2, against Nicaragua, Panama and Grenada.
And even though Murica fought against sheep and goat herders in Afghan and Somalia and Iraq and with fire power 100 to 10,000 times greater, Murica lost and lost and lost.

Murica would not have won Germany in WW2 but for Zhukov killing the vast bulk of Werhmacht and miltary machinery
leaving Muricans to take on the German invalids on D Day

DDay operations not even 10% of Operation Bagration.
D Day took on 3 to 4 German Division that consisted of the German invalids send from Russia to R & R. And even so, Muricans and Brits had such a hard and difficult time doing that.

Where Soviet Union destroyed 28 of 34 divisions of Army Group Centre and completely shattered the German front line. It was the biggest defeat in German military history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bagration









*

America forgot about WW2 where China with barely any arms from USA and with single shot bolt rifles and swords and bare hands fought and killed 3,000,000 Japanese invaders?


And remember that China in WW2 with single shot bolt rifles and 5 bullets to a rifle were the best armed half of the force. And with swords and bare bodies with explosive strapped to them took on and killed 3,000,000 japanese soldiers.

And USA needed no less than aircraft carriers and battleships and planes and artilleries and automatic rifles to kill 300,000 Japs in the Pacific?*






































*"dare to die corps" http://forlornhopesui.blogspot.com/2015/08/dare-to-die-corps.html*









_*Chinese suicide bomber putting on an explosive vest made out of Model 24 hand grenades to use in an attack on Japanese tanks.*_


*The battle involved a Japanese plan to conquer Xuzhou, a major city in the East. However, the Japanese failed to consider the plans of generals Li Zongren and Bai Chongxi, who planned to encircle the Japanese in the town of Tai'erzhuang. The Japanese operation started on 24 March. Overconfidence led the Japanese commanders to overlook the thousands of inconspicuous "farmers" in the area, who were affiliated with Li Zongren and cut communication lines and supplies, diverted streams, and ruined rail lines. By late March, supplies and fuels were being dropped from airplanes to Japanese troops, but the quantities were insufficient.
On 29 March 1938, a small band of Japanese soldiers tunneled under Tai'erzhuang's walls in an attempt to take the city from within. They were caught by the Nationalist defenders and killed. Over the next week, both sides claimed to hold parts of the city and surrounding area, and many were killed in small arms battles.
Finally, the Japanese attacked frontally, failing to consider the greater Chinese numbers. A major encirclement on 6 April, with Chinese reinforcements, preceded a major Japanese defeat and retreat, which the Chinese failed to capitalize upon fully through pursuit due to a lack of mobility.
The Chinese captured 719 Japanese soldiers and large quantities of military supplies, including 31 pieces of artillery, 11 armored cars, 8 armored fighting vehicles, 1,000 machine guns and 10,000 rifles.
A "dare to die corps" was effectively used against Japanese units.
Chinese suicide bomber putting on an explosive vest made out of Model 24 hand grenades to use in an attack on Japanese tanks
Due to lack of anti-armor weaponry, Suicide bombing was also used against the Japanese. Chinese troops strapped explosives like grenade packs or dynamite to their bodies and threw themselves under Japanese tanks to blow them up. Dynamite and grenades were strapped on by Chinese troops who rushed at Japanese tanks and blew themselves up. During one incident at Taierzhuang, Chinese suicide bombers obliterated four Japanese tanks with grenade bundles.
Amid the celebrations of the victory in Hankow and other Chinese cities, Japan tried to deny and ridiculed the reports of the battle for days. It was reported in the world's newspapers, however, and by mid-April had provoked a Cabinet crisis in Tokyo.
The Chinese scored a major victory, the first of the Nationalist alliance in the war. The battle broke the myth of Japanese military invincibility and resulted in an incalculable benefit to Chinese morale.


Japanese learned kamikaze attacks from what the Chinese did to them in China.
*

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525862532816293891

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525862654421749760


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525769013304999936

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525766628381696000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525766843788566528

Russian Defense: 3 Ukrainian fighters were shot down in Kharkiv, Mykolaiv and Zmenyi Island
@AlArabiya_Brk


----------



## Apollon

wahhab0202 said:


> EU seems to try to look to Africa for Russia's oil & gas substitution. How viable and reliable it is remain to be seen. It will be more costly for sure, but what do you think about the reliability of HC supplies from African countries?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Europe Looks To African Gas To Reduce Dependence On Russian Imports | OilPrice.com
> 
> 
> African nations that have historically been gas suppliers to Europe are well placed to scale up their exports as Brussels looks to reduce its dependence on Russian gas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oilprice.com



Better than paying money to a facist russian regime that plans to take entire europe


----------



## gambit

The SC said:


> Russian Defense: 3 Ukrainian fighters were shot down in Kharkiv, Mykolaiv and Zmenyi Island


That is because there is a baby formula shortage in the US. There is a cosmic tie-in that we do not understand, but the longer there is a baby formula shortage in the US, the better the odds of the Russian military making some successes.


----------



## Apollon

FairAndUnbiased said:


> What about loyal US allies from the very beginning, like Mexico, Liberia and Philippines? All of them have been core US allies even before WW1. Liberia and Philippines pretty much copied US system.
> 
> How are they doing?
> 
> US only defeated 2 countries in WW2. Germany and Japan. Where's the all?



Mexico and Philippines do better than Russia


----------



## Broccoli

Amazing how Russians keep shooting down Ukrainian fighters despite the fact that according to their own propaganda they've already destroyed Ukrainian air force twice.

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## Vergennes

Broccoli said:


> Amazing how Russians keep shooting down Ukrainian fighters despite the fact that according to their own propaganda they've already destroyed Ukrainian air force twice.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524208856263540739
Russians keep coming with figures out of their bottom yet some people are masturbating on them,LMAO.

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## Paul2

wahhab0202 said:


> Some members here has been proven to be precise in their prediction. Few weeks back I thought this will be the end of Russian economy. But militarily Russians have a very, very long way to go.



Confirming this. Russia has 6.8 field armies worth of warfighting power left counting by materiel, and closer to 5.5-5.8 by effective units.

The thing is Russia still has numeric superiority in support, artillery, and auxiliaries. They free up hands to frontline troops, but the later are melting.

Most of Russian local numeric superiority is thanks to them, and not frontline troops.

So the risk for Russia is to lose so much of frontline warfighters, that the only thing will be left for Russians is to send forward artillerymen, engineers, and logistics people to hold the line, or fall back.


----------



## Paul2

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525865258757378048
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525893563518701568
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525850297247092737



Most of Russian warheads are few kilotons, very weak. Their ICBM capability is only around 1500 heads. Of which only 680-700 are first strike, highest readiness ones on R36 targeted on the US from Yasny. The rest are programmed to target France/UK/Germany/Turkey from Kozelsk, and China from Uzur.

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## Vergennes

Russians are claiming this is an Ukrainian soldier killed during an attempted landing on Snake Island... problem he seems to wear a Russian navy belt ? This level of desperation ?

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## wahhab0202

Apollon said:


> Better than paying money to a facist russian regime that plans to take entire europe


The money is probably okay, EU is well prepared financially. I am asking about reliability. I mean the political and security issues in Africa is probably not favorable for EU to rely on Africa's HC.


----------



## jhungary

nufix said:


> You mean this one
> 
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> Funnily enough I was actually anticipating this kind of answer but dont you find it funny that US fanboys will always try to find reasons left and right to justify their actions?
> 
> In that video, US tankers were not only crushing the car but als shooting it like a bunch of rednecks on Friday night? Heck even the way they said "US tankers hooah!" kinda implied that they did it at least partially for fun.


What do you mean justify their action?

I mean this is a part of their job, it's just how they do it, I remember our unit confiscated a car in Iraq for whatever reason and we tow it back to our base and use it as target practices. I mean you are talking about a bunch of 18 or 20 years old kid, of course there are going to be some bravado, It probably like picnic to these folk here shooting up a car like that.

you are talking about kids that still sleep with their safety animal next to their bunk, the word I would use is give them a break. at least they aren't raping someone while yelling "US Tanker Fk yeah"


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526057124689858560

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## ARMalik

Check this out !!

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525991178549747712

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526130821895229440

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526057124689858560



The Russians have been keeping revising their objectives down....

From Kyiv regime change and seizing whole Ukraine to only what's east of the dniepr.... to encirlce whole Ukrainian forces and capture the entire Donbass and now to only encirlce Severodonetsk and Lysychansk.... Which they are already struggling at.







The Ukrainians are already counter attacking by Kharkiv to Izyum and as they are training more forces and throwing better equipments in the battle,Russians will have hard times holding their positions as they struggle to rotate units and suffered high attrition.

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## jhungary

This just join the war in Ukraine.......

The 2S22 Bohdana 155 SPG is said to be better than M109A6, debuted in 2018, it can fire 155mm GPS guided shell from over 50km, out ranging even M777 (M777 can shoot M982 Excalibur round at 40km).









2S22 Bohdana - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





There are 1 that made and is reportedly in the fight. More are said to be made with UK and Polish firm and probably with US or UK aid money for their production.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526155833205202945

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526078751012007937

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526079363103563776

Some of the best Russian copes

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526078751012007937
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526079363103563776
> 
> Some of the best Russian copes


I wonder what these people are writing now

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## Apollon

wahhab0202 said:


> The money is probably okay, EU is well prepared financially. I am asking about reliability. I mean the political and security issues in Africa is probably not favorable for EU to rely on Africa's HC.



Nations like Egypt for example are more stable than Russia


----------



## F-22Raptor

Wood said:


> I wonder what these people are writing now




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526101593279631360
And another from March

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## Primus

So has the Russian frigate Admiral Makarov been sunk? I was hearing reports on it a few weeks back but its suddenly gone quiet. If its true, then thats good news for Pakistan as India is acquiring/acquired those same frigates for use in the Indian navy. 

@Vergennes @jhungary @Oldman1


----------



## jhungary

Huffal said:


> So has the Russian frigate Admiral Makarov been sunk? I was hearing reports on it a few weeks back but its suddenly gone quiet. If its true, then thats good news for Pakistan as India is acquiring/acquired those same frigates for use in the Indian navy.
> 
> @Vergennes @jhungary @Oldman1


Most likely no.

There are no report on OSINT or Western Briefing suggesting Admiral Makarov was damaged. The only news come from Ukraine interior ministry (or ministry of defence or whoever leak that news, I forgot)

There are however a Landing ship that was damaged in the area about the same time, and that probably is the vessel that was damaged that day.

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## FairAndUnbiased

jhungary said:


> 3 countries. Germany, Italy and Japan.
> 
> Russian were never in Italy or North Africa...


When did I mention Russia?

Italy switched sides before total defeat.



Apollon said:


> Mexico and Philippines do better than Russia


You sure? Try checking the stats.

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## Primus

jhungary said:


> Most likely no.
> 
> There are no report on OSINT or Western Briefing suggesting Admiral Makarov was damaged. The only news come from Ukraine interior ministry (or ministry of defence or whoever leak that news, I forgot)
> 
> There are however a Landing ship that was damaged in the area about the same time, and that probably is the vessel that was damaged that day.


Ah right. Thats good and bad news rolled into 1. (good because no loss of life), (bad because India uses it)


----------



## denel

Vergennes said:


> Russians are claiming this is an Ukrainian soldier killed during an attempted landing on Snake Island... problem he seems to wear a Russian navy belt ? This level of desperation ?
> 
> View attachment 844426


Bottom line Russians f.k.up big time. It has laid bare the useless nature of command and control structure as well as tactics.. Frankly even the cubans were far better disciplined than these insane lunatics,

Herr Putin really is now suffering from foot and mouth disease with no way out,

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## jhungary

FairAndUnbiased said:


> When did I mention Russia?
> 
> Italy switched sides before total defeat.
> 
> 
> You sure? Try checking the stats.


You need to learn some history. Kingdom of Italy switch side in 1943 because they were liberated by the allied after Sicily , Mussolini's Italy did not switch side, Germany occupied Italy after rescuing Mussolini

It's like saying Charles de Gaulle exile government fought with Allied in 1942 and battle of France does not exist on D-Day.....

Also, when did I say you mention Russia? I can't mention Russia on my post??


----------



## Paul2

jhungary said:


> View attachment 844447
> 
> 
> This just join the war in Ukraine.......
> 
> The 2S22 Bohdana 155 SPG is said to be better than M109A6, debuted in 2018, it can fire 155mm GPS guided shell from over 50km, out ranging even M777 (M777 can shoot M982 Excalibur round at 40km).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2S22 Bohdana - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are 1 that made and is reportedly in the fight. More are said to be made with UK and Polish firm and probably with US or UK aid money for their production.



Ukrainian military industry is down. Their main effort now is to keep making just any ammunition.

Their 122mm ammo factory is now behind the enemy lines.


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## Wood

How difficult will it be for Ukraine to take Kherson? Russia is rumored to hold a referendum in that city and annex it to the federation. Not sure why they bother with the fake referendum, but nevertheless Ukraine needs to preempt such an event. Urban warfare will be a challenge for Ukraine as well

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## Apollon

FairAndUnbiased said:


> When did I mention Russia?
> 
> Italy switched sides before total defeat.
> 
> 
> You sure? Try checking the stats.



I did. Life expectancy in Russia is on level of North Korea now.


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## Paul2

Wood said:


> How difficult will it be for Ukraine to take Kherson? Russia is rumored to hold a referendum in that city and annex it to the federation. Not sure why they bother with the fake referendum, but nevertheless Ukraine needs to preempt such an event. Urban warfare will be a challenge for Ukraine as well



It's by far the easiest target. Ukrainians not attacking it for so long means they are ok with Russian forces being tied there.

Last time I checked telegrams, the unit there told of "unending" amount of Russian artillery in the area.

MLRS blasts kept flying in between sides for weeks, but they mostly hit empty ground because both sides avoid crossing each other's artillery range.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Ukrainian military industry is down. Their main effort now is to keep making just any ammunition.
> 
> Their 122mm ammo factory is now behind the enemy lines.



That's why I said Poland and UK is in talk to make those gun truck for Ukraine. 

They also uses 155mm shell, not 152 the Russian uses, so the Brits or Poland and make them with ease.


----------



## jhungary

Wood said:


> How difficult will it be for Ukraine to take Kherson? Russia is rumored to hold a referendum in that city and annex it to the federation. Not sure why they bother with the fake referendum, but nevertheless Ukraine needs to preempt such an event. Urban warfare will be a challenge for Ukraine as well


To attack the city is easy, to block the Russian force from coming south while you are doing it is hard. 

Russian are digging trenches around Kherson Oblast, meaning they are taking a defensive stance. IF (That is a big IF) the people in Kherson rise up when Ukraine Military swoop in, that would not be hard to fight off the Russian, however, the single bridge connecting Kherson and Oleshky would be a problem. Ukrainian need a blocking force to block that position, otherwise it will allow Russian to come in and out of Kherson with their reinforcement. 

The Ukrainian did not make any move is probably because they don't have enough manpower to perform both task. Ukraine would also need to push troop inside shelling distant, which itself would take time.

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## Paul2

I noticed a general tendency as of late. Russians are losing less, and less, and less of high value units.

Almost no air defence lost, no 300mm losses, less 152mm SPHes, EW systems


They are either working really hard to preserve them
Or they simply moved them deeply into the rear, meaning that troops on the frontline are a "meatshield"
This can mean:


They have no plans to resume the offensive, and they will stand where they are for a while
Preparation for pullback

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526190470153797635
Seems official now

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## KAL-EL

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526190470153797635
> Seems official now



Mr. Putin should be congratulated on his massive miscalculation

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## Viet

KAL-EL said:


> Mr. Putin should be congratulated on his massive miscalculation


Finland, Sweden joining the NATO is a logical step. Putin sees nazi everywhere.
Thing has changed, nobody can trust Russia. Siemens packs and leaves after 170 years. Putin can say good bye to HSR. Siemens will probably build Hsr in Ukraine instead.











__





Siemens-Rückzug aus Russland: „Dann fahren die Züge halt durch die Ukraine statt durch Russland“ - WiWo


WIWO AMP2




amp2.wiwo.de


----------



## Viet

That’s a bitter end after 32y. McDonald sells all business and leaves Russia. 1,000 foreign companies follow.









Over 1,000 Companies Have Curtailed Operations in Russia—But Some Remain







som.yale.edu

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## Wood

Viet said:


> That’s a bitter end after 32y. McDonald sells all business and leaves Russia. 1,000 foreign companies follow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over 1,000 Companies Have Curtailed Operations in Russia—But Some Remain
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> som.yale.edu


They were paying employees for 2 months without work. Finally, seems like they had to cut losses and move out for good

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## Apollon

Wood said:


> They were paying employees for 2 months without work. Finally, seems like they had to cut losses and move out for good



All part of the plan. 4D chess dude. Putins Mastermind.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526199389764874240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526240874014855168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526231955813150720


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526234845306839040

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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526199389764874240


That's very valuable info indeed. What it proves is the limit of losses at which Russians will keep a unit in the field.

Many fully functioning T72s are reported to chill deep behind the front lines because Russians pulled the unit for R&R.

What we see here, it's more or less consistent with Russian doctrine — 50% loss limit. 1st GTA was pulled back, and given spare T80s in late March.

We also know few units been reported to be completely annihilated to the last vehicle, so we can do a subtractive count of written off units.

1st GTA was likely deemed too valuable to let to fight to death, and that's why it was let to fall back.

Other cannon fodder armour units were left to fight to the last man around Sumy, and Chernihiv until near complete annihilation.

Also this confirms again: Russia has tanks in auxiliary units too. And this is explaining cases of 1-2 separate tanks being spotted in odd units. These are tanks of auxiliary battalions, which exist in the level of Russian divisions, and corps — certainly a leftover from USSR military structure. These were to do errands for unit HQs if enemy were to descend on supply lines, HQs themselves, or division's signal units.

So besides losing tanks from frontline units, Russia lost tons of armour in auxiliary, and normally behind the line units.

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## beast89

ARMalik said:


> Check this out !!
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525991178549747712


looks like whats Israel did to palestinians, white phosphorous? No outrage that time and that was on civillians not a nazi battalion

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## Get Ya Wig Split

Analysis: Neutral Switzerland leans closer to NATO in response to Russia​








Analysis: Neutral Switzerland leans closer to NATO in response to Russia


Switzerland's fabled neutral status is about to face its biggest test in decades, with the defence ministry tilting closer to Western military powers in response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.




www.reuters.com

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## Primus

Apollon said:


> Palestinians operate in Ukraine? Wow
> 
> 
> Dude please keep this shit out of topic. Nobody cares about palestine.


And nobody cares about you. Now do one

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## RescueRanger

Huffal said:


> And nobody cares about you. Now do one


Ignore him he’s the European equivalent of Arnab:

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## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> That’s a bitter end after 32y. McDonald sells all business and leaves Russia. 1,000 foreign companies follow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over 1,000 Companies Have Curtailed Operations in Russia—But Some Remain
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> som.yale.edu



Back to Goulash and Golubtsy for Comrade Russia it seems ...



Get Ya Wig Split said:


> Analysis: Neutral Switzerland leans closer to NATO in response to Russia​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Analysis: Neutral Switzerland leans closer to NATO in response to Russia
> 
> 
> Switzerland's fabled neutral status is about to face its biggest test in decades, with the defence ministry tilting closer to Western military powers in response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com



There is no military need for Switzerland to join given its geography and how it is hidden behind a wall of NATO defence.

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## Primus

RescueRanger said:


> Ignore him he’s the European equivalent of Arnab:
> 
> View attachment 844573


Arnab Basedwami

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## RescueRanger

Coming back to Ukraine - Russians are getting boned. At this point they should all just face their guns towards the Kremlin and kill Putin.

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## PakFactor

RescueRanger said:


> Coming back to Ukraine - Russians are getting boned. At this point they should all just face their guns towards the Kremlin and kill Putin.

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## RescueRanger

PakFactor said:


> @RescueRanger
> View attachment 844600


Hahaha 🤣

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## FairAndUnbiased

Paul2 said:


> It's by far the easiest target. Ukrainians not attacking it for so long means they are ok with Russian forces being tied there.
> 
> Last time I checked telegrams, the unit there told of "unending" amount of Russian artillery in the area.
> 
> MLRS blasts kept flying in between sides for weeks, but they mostly hit empty ground because both sides avoid crossing each other's artillery range.


Ah I see, now according to you Ukrainians want Kherson to get annexed and lose control of the Dnieper delta. Wow. Ok.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526274124523397120

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## Vergennes

Western artillery at work


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526291865028464642


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## Wood

Ukrainian steelworks defenders appear to signal end of Mariupol siege


Siege of Azovstal steelworks appears to be over, while Putin responds calmy to Finland and Sweden’s NATO move




www.theglobeandmail.com







> The Ukrainian unit holed up beneath the Azovstal steelworks in Mariupol said on Monday its garrison was fulfilling orders to save the lives of troops, an apparent sign that the longest and bloodiest battle of the Ukraine war had come to an end.
> 
> Reuters saw about a dozen buses apparently carrying Ukrainian fighters leaving the plant on Monday. It was not possible to determine how many people were aboard. Some 600 fighters have been estimated to be inside the vast Soviet-era plant, including dozens of wounded.
> 
> “In order to save lives, the entire Mariupol garrison is implementing the approved decision of the Supreme Military Command and hopes for the support of the Ukrainian people,” the Azov Regiment said in a social media post.





> Earlier on Monday, Vladimir Putin appeared to climb down from Russian threats to retaliate against Sweden and Finland for announcing plans to join NATO.
> 
> “As far as expansion goes, including new members Finland and Sweden, Russia has no problems with these states – none. And so in this sense there is no immediate threat to Russia from an expansion to include these countries,” Putin said.
> 
> The comments appeared to mark a major shift in rhetoric, after years of casting NATO enlargement as a direct threat to Russia’s security, including citing it as a justification for the invasion of Ukraine itself.

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## Clutch



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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526293727664295940
Hero’s all of them, and did significant damage to the Russian Army.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526306416662831106

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## ARMalik

beast89 said:


> looks like whats Israel did to palestinians, white phosphorous? No outrage that time and that was on civillians not a nazi battalion



Nope it is not white phosphorous. It is some sort of Munition, I forgot what it is called.

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## A.P. Richelieu

beast89 said:


> looks like whats Israel did to palestinians, white phosphorous? No outrage that time and that was on civillians not a nazi battalion


International Law says nothing about White Phosphorus.
There is a treaty on Incendiary Weapons, which are banned to use on civilians.
The treaty specifically excludes smoke munitions from being classified as Incendiary Weapons, even if they contain White Phosphorus.
Only amateurs or trolls bring up the use of ”White Phosphorus”. The latter wants to make people believe that the use of smoke munition is a war crime.





__





Treaties, States parties, and Commentaries - CCW Protocol (III) prohibiting Incendiary Weapons, 1980






ihl-databases.icrc.org


----------



## The SC

Paul2 said:


> Most of Russian warheads are few kilotons, very weak. Their ICBM capability is only around 1500 heads. Of which only 680-700 are first strike, highest readiness ones on R36 targeted on the US from Yasny. The rest are programmed to target France/UK/Germany/Turkey from Kozelsk, and China from Uzur.


Only 1500 ICBMs..

🤣
🤣

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526293727664295940
> Hero’s all of them, and did significant damage to the Russian Army.




This is surrender. Quit the spin. Nobody is going to fall it. The guys at Azovtal couldn't take it any more.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526312430250385408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526311979056607233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526311118737653760

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## Paul2

It's really important to know how much non-frontline forces Russia lost.

Every dedicated logistics unit, signals battalion, HQ auxiliary, engineers, recovery etc lost is telling what role their supraordinate unit was to do, and what they can still do.

Russian 2nd army for example lost its 2 auxiliary engineering battalions, and then lost 2 engineering reinforcement battalions originally belonging to 5th army.

This meant they had an important enough role to worth sacrificing 4 battalions in a row, and requisite more from another army in a rush. As we got to know now, they were to bridge Seversky Donets — the critical part of the operation


----------



## Primus

ARMalik said:


> Nope it is not white phosphorous. It is some sort of Munition, I forgot what it is called.


Incendiary?

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## Soldier35

The American M777A2 howitzers came to Ukraine without the AFCS digital fire control system. The system allows for automatic correction of fire by GPS, which allows you to increase the pace and accuracy of shooting. Why this electronic unit was removed is not clear, perhaps because of fears that the howitzer will fall into the hands of the Russian army. There have already been reports that one howitzer has been captured by Russia. It is worth noting that the M777 howitzer is quite good and the lightest in the world. One of the problems when using it in Ukraine may be the cost of ammunition, the price of a projectile from $ 60,000.






Russian troops used incendiary shells MZ-21 on Azovstal in Mariupol. The Ukrainian media immediately announced phosphorus ammunition, but in fact unguided rockets MZ-21 were used. The 9M22S projectile is designed for firing from the BM-21 Grad combat vehicle. The incendiary element of the projectile is a shell of hexagonal cross-section made of magnesium alloy ML-5, in the blind socket of which a pyrotechnic composition is pressed.






The Azov battalion surrendered in the city of Mariupol. The wounded are being taken out of Azovstal. The commander of the Azov, Denis Prokopenko, published a video message in which he de facto recognized the surrender of the Azov. "The defenders of Mariupol fulfilled the order, despite all the difficulties, they delayed the superior enemy forces for 82 days and allowed the Ukrainian army to regroup, prepare more personnel and receive a large amount of weapons from partner countries. No weapons will work without professionally trained military personnel, which makes them the most valuable element of the army. For the sake of saving lives, the entire Mariupol garrison fulfills the approved decision of the supreme military command and hopes for the support of the Ukrainian people."

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## Vergennes

Mariupol defenders will be remembered as heroes and courage and determination will be associated with them. Cut off from the rest of Ukraine for months,a city leveled to the ground,resisting assaults from the hordes of kadyrovs,dnr/lnr and russian troops.

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## SalarHaqq

jhungary said:


> Well, we don't crush car for fun. And if you do, you *WILL* get court martialled. as per Article 109 UCMJ Wasting Or Spoiling Nonmilitary Property
> 
> There are 2 ways a US tank could have crush a car, tanks *ALWAYS HAVE RIGHT OF WAY* and cannot stop on a dime (well, you don't give way to a tank that's your business) so if car don't stop and collide with a tank, there is a pretty good chance your car is going to get crushed, and it is most likely your fault.
> 
> There are footage show that US force crush civilian car because he steal something with it. All equipment of a crime are destroyed to punish the looter, this is not US Rule, this is Iraqi rules, which consider their law call for cutting of thief's hand, losing a car is a lot better than losing a pair of hand.



There's no law in Iraq calling for the amputation of a thief's hand. The US tank crushed the car unlawfully no matter how one will look at it.

_____



A.P. Richelieu said:


> International Law* says nothing about *White Phosphorus.
> There is a treaty on Incendiary Weapons, which are banned to use on civilians.
> The treaty* specifically excludes *smoke munitions from being classified as Incendiary Weapons,* even if they contain White Phosphorus.*



Contradictory statements.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Only amateurs or trolls bring up the use of ”White Phosphorus”. The latter wants to make people believe that the use of smoke munition is a war crime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Treaties, States parties, and Commentaries - CCW Protocol (III) prohibiting Incendiary Weapons, 1980
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ihl-databases.icrc.org



The treaty's focus is on whether or not the incendiary effect of a munition is incidental. Which logically ought to be determined not just by the technical classification and nature of the munition, but also by how and to what effect it is actually being employed by the ones firing it. Especially if it lends itself to dual use, and white phosphorous does much more so than a simple smoke grenade.

Thence, if white phosphorous is used not to illuminate, trace, create smoke or to signal, but to set fire to objects or to cause burn injury to persons (reflecting the description made of an incendiary weapon in Article 1.1. of the Protocol), then white phosphorous will be considered a weapon indeed, and its use will be governed by the limitations stipulated for in the Protocol.

In other words, should white phosphorous be utilized to damage assets or kill enemy combatants located amidst concentrations of civilians, then this will be a war crime. Let alone if civilian areas are showered with it in order to cause terror and fear.

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## The SC

The resistance of the Ukrainians and their stubbornness in Azovstal deserves salutations, but the situation has been complicated for the last 48 hours due to the intensity of the Russian bombing, which forced them to escape being among the dead if they did not surrender..

The security of Kharkiv is also worth talking about as one of the first cities to be attacked and had resisted..

The Russians have a numerical advantage and progress in other areas, and it seems that the cost of Kharkiv for the Ukrainians will turn into an outrage if the Russians push into the city aggressively..

If the Russians succeeded in controlling the entire Donbass, they would have won the war, and the rest would be hit and run in the end..

Russia will not be able to control areas that it has no influence in far from the Ukrainian east. At the same time, the Ukrainians have not succeeded in controlling the Donbass since 2014, so It is not expected that they will succeed when Russia is openly fighting alongside the separatists..

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526266440684388352

Lviv suffered the biggest blow since the beginning of the special operation. In the city explosions one after another, already more than a dozen explosions and alarm roars, the air defense is working. The city's mayor describes the situation as appalling.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526320947963338752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526275795701964800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526299694397259776


----------



## Wood

Very interesting to know that there are Russians in Berlin who still support Putin. The Russian community in the city is divided in loyalty


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526213512904818688

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## RoadAmerica

zartosht said:


> Baby forumula shortage is hitting the US big time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4
> 
> maybe the US with all its money and guns should learn to feed their babies first? before starting wars all over the world, spreading unimaginable misery, and sending 40 billions to ukraine for more war.
> 
> Disgraceful entity this abortion of a 200 year old mutt country built on the genocided bones of the natives of the land.
> 
> Europes gas is expected to triple in price by winter. Inflation on pace to get to and pass 10% in many western countries.
> 
> People literally losing buying power by the day.
> 
> Looks like "the crippling western sanctions" are really hitting them Russians hard. Historians will look back on history with amusement how quickly the west had the entire earth in their hands in 1991, and how quickly dumb war mongering parasitic politicians, weapons manufacturers, and media ruined it all..
> 
> *KARMA*


Wow, there’s a lot in there. Feeling ok?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526319979246850049

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526324841116315648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526138496884391937

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525782252914888704

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525781543196798981

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526286576745123842
The Ukrainian military reported shooting down a Russian Su-25 aircraft in Donbass

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526284385602895872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526283598550208514


----------



## The SC

"Germany will deliver Gepard and Bazookas howitzers and anti-aircraft tanks to Ukraine" said the head of the federal government, Stephen Gepstreit, "Panzerhaubitz 2000"


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526222771189075970


----------



## jhungary

SalarHaqq said:


> There's no law in Iraq calling for the amputation of a thief's hand. The US tank crushed the car unlawfully no matter how one will look at it.
> 
> _____
> 
> 
> 
> Contradictory statements.
> 
> 
> 
> The treaty's focus is on whether or not the incendiary effect of a munition is incidental. Which logically ought to be determined not simply by the technical classification and nature of the munition, but also by how and to what effect it is actually being employed by its user. Especially if it lends itself to dual use, as white phosphorous does much more than a simple smoke grenade.
> 
> Thence, if white phosphorous is used not to illuminate, trace, create smoke or to signal, but to set fire to objects or to cause burn injury to persons (reflecting the description made of an incendiary weapon in Article 1.1. of the Protocol), then white phosphorous will be considered a weapon indeed, and its use will be governed by the limitations stipulated in the Protocol.
> 
> In other words, if white phosphorous is used to damage assets or kill enemy combatants located amidst concentrations of civilians, then this will be a war crime.


lol, whatever you say.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526287553669779456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526276299454660608

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526065154886193154

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## LeGenD

Looks like Russian forces have taken Mariupol. This battle lasted 82 days.

I have updated relevant section in the repository thread.






Repository of journalistic sources and how to use them with Russia - Ukraine War in focus and Fact-checking considerations


Dear members, Some members complain about the issue of reporting bias (and propaganda) in journalistic contents. These complaints were noticed in the following thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/ This thread is created to address the...



defence.pk


----------



## Oldman1

Huffal said:


> So has the Russian frigate Admiral Makarov been sunk? I was hearing reports on it a few weeks back but its suddenly gone quiet. If its true, then thats good news for Pakistan as India is acquiring/acquired those same frigates for use in the Indian navy.
> 
> @Vergennes @jhungary @Oldman1


I wouldn't know. The Ukrainian military hasn't said anything about it.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

It is laughable how the Western propagandists like to cope and spin this massive blow against them in Mariupol.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526367728176619520



LeGenD said:


> Looks like Russian forces have taken Mariupol. This battle lasted 82 days.
> 
> I have updated relevant section in the repository thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Repository of journalistic sources and how to use them with Russia - Ukraine War in focus and Fact-checking considerations
> 
> 
> Dear members, Some members complain about the issue of reporting bias (and propaganda) in journalistic contents. These complaints were noticed in the following thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/ This thread is created to address the...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk




This was a massive blow against Judea-controlled Ukrainian forces. As usual, Judea propagandists are spinning this victory achieved by the victorious Russian and pro-Russian forces.

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## Oldman1

SalarHaqq said:


> It's more like NATO and zionist regimes needed a trigger to politically legitimize the large scale destabilization of West Asia and North Africa they had been planning. To this end they activated the same types of networks they had established some fifteen years earlier to combat the Soviets in Afghanistan, and used them to obtain the pretext they needed.
> 
> The alternative scenario you imagined is too far fetched.What person in their right mind, knowing who the neoconservatives are and what the establishment elites in Washington are up to (especially after publicly expressing the belief that a "new Pearl Harbor" would enable them to implement their plans for domination), would come to believe that striking symbolic high rise towers in New York and killing many hundreds of civilians would somehow convince America's ruling oligarchy that it needs to withdraw from the Muslim world in order to have peace?


Its something people assume Americans would change their minds based on past history. Kind of like the Embassy attacks or the attacks on the Marine barracks in Lebanon in the 80s and force President Reagan to pull troops out. Or another example Pearl Harbor attack and the Japanese assume that would be enough to force the Americans to sue for peace because what they did to the Russians in a surprise attack during the Russo-Japanese War. Remember that Saddam though the same warning Americans about the Mother of All Vietnams prior to U.S. involvement in Gulf War1. So thinking killing thousands of Americans and other nationalities on 9/11 would force the U.S. to back off in the ME or change its support for Israel.



jhungary said:


> To attack the city is easy, to block the Russian force from coming south while you are doing it is hard.
> 
> Russian are digging trenches around Kherson Oblast, meaning they are taking a defensive stance. IF (That is a big IF) the people in Kherson rise up when Ukraine Military swoop in, that would not be hard to fight off the Russian, however, the single bridge connecting Kherson and Oleshky would be a problem. Ukrainian need a blocking force to block that position, otherwise it will allow Russian to come in and out of Kherson with their reinforcement.
> 
> The Ukrainian did not make any move is probably because they don't have enough manpower to perform both task. Ukraine would also need to push troop inside shelling distant, which itself would take time.
> 
> View attachment 844494


Need more of the drones with grenades, artillery and loitering munitions to attack at night as well in the Kherson region. If they want to launch counteroffensive, it would have to be at night. And moving from one town or village to the next each night. Thats the only way in that terrain.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Missile rain on Lvov


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526328029630320642

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526326454379761666

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526326887009726464


----------



## wahhab0202

Apollon said:


> Nations like Egypt for example are more stable than Russia


Last 2 successions in Egypt were not particularly smooth. Oil producing countries in are not seems to have political stability as good as Russia. Morocco and Algeria were in the brink of war few months back. Nigeria, Angola and some oil producing countries in Africa also politically unstable. Security threat in form of terrorism and piracy also common in this region.


----------



## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> View attachment 844447
> 
> 
> This just join the war in Ukraine.......
> 
> The 2S22 Bohdana 155 SPG is said to be better than M109A6, debuted in 2018, it can fire 155mm GPS guided shell from over 50km, out ranging even M777 (M777 can shoot M982 Excalibur round at 40km).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2S22 Bohdana - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are 1 that made and is reportedly in the fight. More are said to be made with UK and Polish firm and probably with US or UK aid money for their production.


That would definitely help with focus on only one artillery model instead of a dozen variety provided by the west but they still need as much as possible in the current fighting because it will be awhile to build more of these Bohdanas. At least this is very mobile with shoot and scoot capability. The U.S. military is also interested in their own version. Don't know if they will go for more automation. Also wonder if they will include the longer barrel M777 version on the vehicle as well as stand alone.















@jhungary @F-22Raptor @Vergennes 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525448394159931394

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525448411436175360

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526214710047252481


----------



## Oldman1

@jhungary 
By the way, is it possible that Poland or other countries can be Ukraine's war factories? Producing not just that artillery but provide other vehicles and equipment that Ukraine cannot produce currently, at least small arms, bullets, ammo and body armor is something Ukraine can produce and in hidden places. But for the bigger equipment Poland and other nearby countries could do it.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526215584262029317
Macron was injured in an accident that left him in a long coma, and when he woke up after more than twenty years, he went to a cafe in Paris and asked for a cup of coffee, then asked the waiter: Please, how did the war in Ukraine end? The waiter replied: It ended well. Macron was happy and then asked him again: How much does the coffee cost? And the waiter answered: Three rubles!

😂😂🤣🤣

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526298154114629634


----------



## Oldman1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526333878788665345

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## CAPRICORN-88



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## The SC

In the first major nationalization process, Russia acquires the French "Renault" factories in the country..






@euronewsar

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526371117467828225

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## Oldman1

Former top Russian general warns Putin against ‘criminal’ Ukraine invasion


Colonel-General Leonid Ivashov wrote that Vladimir Putin was pursuing a “criminal policy of provoking war” even though Moscow is not facing any “critical threats.”




nypost.com





Former top Russian general warns Putin against ‘criminal’ Ukraine invasion​By 
Mark Moore
February 7, 2022 11:26am 
Updated

A retired Russian general has warned Vladimir Putin against ordering an invasion of neighboring Ukraine, accusing the Russian leader of using the standoff to distract from domestic problems and predicting an attack would turn Russia into a “pariah of the world community.”

Colonel-General Leonid Ivashov, chairman of the All-Russian Officers Assembly, wrote in a letter titled “The Eve of War” and posted on the group’s website that Putin was pursuing a “criminal policy of provoking war” even though Moscow is not facing any “critical threats.”

“[W]e demand to abandon the criminal policy of provoking a war in which the Russian Federation will find itself alone against the united forces of the West … and resign,” wrote Ivashov, who retired in 2001 and has written extensively since about Russian military and international affairs.

Ivashov’s letter contradicted Putin by saying that NATO forces are not threatening Russia, while adding that the West’s nuclear weapons are under “reliable control.”

“As for external threats, they are certainly present. But, according to our expert assessment, they are not currently critical, directly threatening the existence of Russian statehood and its vital interests,” wrote the 78-year-old, who served as chief of military cooperation in Moscow’s Ministry of Defense during the early days of Putin’s rule.

Launching an attack on Ukraine “will call into question the existence of Russia itself as a state” and will make “Russians and Ukrainians mortal enemies,” Ivashov went on.

The former commander added that he feared NATO members, including Turkey, would intervene if Putin moved on Ukraine.

“Besides, Russia will definitely be included in the category of countries that threaten peace and international security, will be subject to the heaviest sanctions, will turn into a pariah of the world community, and will probably be deprived of the status of an independent state,” he wrote in the missive dated Jan. 31.

He also predicted massive casualties, “the destruction of the usual way of life,” and the “violation of the vital systems of states and peoples” if fighting breaks out.

“There will be thousands (tens of thousands) of dead young, healthy guys on one side and on the other, which will certainly affect the future demographic situation in our dying countries,” he said. “On the battlefield, if this happens, Russian troops will face not only Ukrainian military personnel, among whom there will be many Russian guys, but also military personnel and equipment from many NATO countries, and the member states of the alliance will be obliged to declare war on Russia.”

Michael McFaul, who spent two years as US ambassador to Russia during President Barack Obama’s administration, tweeted Sunday evening that Ivashov’s letter was “a big deal.”

“At one time, General Ivashov was one of the most respected (and hawkish) leaders in the Russian MOD,” McFaul wrote. “Russian generals don’t usually get involved in public policy debates, especially ones like Ivashov.”

Putin has massed an estimated force of more than 100,000 troops along the border with Ukraine, and White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan said Sunday that an invasion “could happen at any time.”

“We’re in the window where something could happen. That is a military escalation and invasion of Ukraine could happen at any time,” Sullivan told NBC News’ “Meet the Press.” “We believe that the Russians have put in place the capabilities to mount a significant military operation into Ukraine, and we have been working hard to prepare a response.”

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526186795863527424

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## CAPRICORN-88

The SC said:


> In the first major nationalization process, Russia acquires the French "Renault" factories in the country..
> 
> View attachment 844702
> 
> 
> @euronewsar


The German instructed Chancellor Olaf Scholtz started it first when they nationalized Gasprom Germania. Now who can they blamed?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526353995291365376

US Air Force successfully tested the ARRW hypersonic weapon

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526164608238624769

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524413707899523073


----------



## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526360514263142411

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526360518121881602


----------



## CAPRICORN-88



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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526320252887437315


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526199686658510848

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526205276323454978

The question of the use of CSTO forces in a special operation in Ukraine was not raised at a meeting of leaders


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526206572912947202

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## CAPRICORN-88



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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Mariupol defenders will be remembered as heroes and courage and determination will be associated with them. Cut off from the rest of Ukraine for months,a city leveled to the ground,resisting assaults from the hordes of kadyrovs,dnr/lnr and russian troops.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526312560122810368


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## CAPRICORN-88



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## The SC

The Ukrainian forces are using the new US M-777 howitzer, which is known for its long range and accuracy, in bombing Russian positions on the front line in the east of the country..The US embassy in Kyiv said that Washington had delivered all but one of the 90 artillery that were to be sent.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526195586445328384

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## CAPRICORN-88

CAPRICORN-88 said:


>


What USD 40 billion humanitarian aid?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526239671017160704

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## Oldman1

CAPRICORN-88 said:


>


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526323775674929152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526192867152121856


----------



## Sharma Ji

I like Rand, his dad is also a good man and was a principled politician, shame the US shitlibs smeared him the way they did.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526118657901875202

Eye for eye. 

Putin is a serious chess gamer.

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## Oldman1




----------



## MisterSyed

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526118657901875202
> 
> Eye for eye.
> 
> Putin is a serious chess gamer.


Care to explain a bit??


----------



## CAPRICORN-88




----------



## SalarHaqq

Oldman1 said:


> Its something people assume Americans would change their minds based on past history. Kind of like the Embassy attacks or the attacks on the Marine barracks in Lebanon in the 80s and force President Reagan to pull troops out. Or another example Pearl Harbor attack and the Japanese assume that would be enough to force the Americans to sue for peace because what they did to the Russians in a surprise attack during the Russo-Japanese War. Remember that Saddam though the same warning Americans about the Mother of All Vietnams prior to U.S. involvement in Gulf War1. So thinking killing thousands of Americans and other nationalities on 9/11 would force the U.S. to back off in the ME or change its support for Israel.



There's no general rule along the lines of "strike US assets and they will retreat", it obviously depends on a whole set of circumstances and variables (both domestic and international) as well as on what the target would actually be. The notion that a rag tag network of AK-wielding militants could possibly force the retreat of US troops from the entire Muslim world by staging a major attack against civilians on US soil and in the early 2000's at that, when the regime was headed by hawkish neoconservatives and was busy planning on how to preserve its newfound unipolar hegemony for another century, is simply farcical. Not to mention how improbable it would have been for a grouplet like this to be able to pull off such a thing on its own.

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## Oldman1

SalarHaqq said:


> There's no general rule along the lines of "strike US assets and they will retreat", it obviously depends on a whole set of circumstances and variables (both domestic and international) as well as on what the target would actually be. The notion that a rag tag network of AK-wielding militants could force the retreat of US troops from the entire Muslim world by staging a major attack against civilians on US soil and in the early 2000's at that, when the regime was headed by hawkish neoconservatives and was busy planning on how to preserve its newfound unipolar hegemony for another century, is simply farcical. Not to mention how improbable it is for a grouplet like that to be able to pull off such a thing on its own.


What makes you think its improbable or impossible to do such a thing when terrorist groups or even individuals only have done it before by hijacking aircraft to get their demands through? Only difference was ramming jets into buildings.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526158082010763270


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526329097064009729

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## The SC

MisterSyed said:


> Care to explain a bit??


It is simple.. Russia had almost $600 billion of foreign reserves in Western banks..and they were all frozen by the new sanctions.. Russia responded by confiscating the Western assets in Russia.. it already did worth $500 billion..

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## CAPRICORN-88

The simple ban of export of wheat by India is raising alarm of what the Russia-Ukraine conflict is now leading us to. 
*
An anticipated shortage of essential food supply worldwide. *

And India's wheat merely accounts for 3% of the combined world export and is already causing an impact.

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## Oldman1

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526329097064009729











'Putin's palace': Builders' story of luxury, mould and fake walls


The Black Sea mansion highlighted by Alexei Navalny is beset with construction issues, say builders.



www.bbc.com













Russian steel billionaire's new yacht is a tuxedo donning warship - The 464 feet long megayacht costs $500 million it has two helipads, a retractable hangar, a cinema, spa, and even barbeque areas. - Luxurylaunches


Russian oligarchs have a deep love for superyachts, and it is more profound than the oceans they take them on. Russian billionaire Roman Abramovich




luxurylaunches.com





Its really nice yacht honestly.
Russian steel billionaire’s new yacht is a tuxedo donning warship – The 464 feet long megayacht costs $500 million it has two helipads, a retractable hangar, a cinema, spa, and even barbeque areas.​


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526397218760056834

$40B for Ukraine is close now.

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## CAPRICORN-88

The war of attrition first leads to an energy crisis in EU, UK and USA and now a FOOD crisis as well.

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## The SC

A series of missile strikes were directed at the Kyiv region


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526379441445797888

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## CAPRICORN-88

Latest: Ukrainian offensive in Izium, a city on the Donets River in Kharkiv Oblast has suffered a major setback with reported heavy casualties.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

MisterSyed said:


> Care to explain a bit??








__





Russia nationalizes Renault plant to revive “historical” Soviet-era Moskvitch car | EMIS


Russia has nationalized a plant formerly owned by French carmaker Renault and plans to use it to revive the famous Soviet-era Moskvitch, Moscow mayor Sergey Sobyanin said in a statement on Monday (May 16th), cited by Moscow Times. “I've decided to list the factory as the city's asset and resume...




www.emis.com













Putin changes law on leased jets to keep them flying


The Russian president signs new law allowing foreign-leased jets to keep flying in Russia.



www.bbc.com






Russia says it controls $500 billion in Western assets to balance $300 billion of Russia's foreign reserves frozen by the West. If the West seizes Russian assets, Russia can do likewise.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526197550776299521

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526102901860577280

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## CAPRICORN-88

Food Protectionism Is Spreading as Hungary Bans Grain Exports​
Argentina, Turkey also moved this week to increase control
Invasion of Ukraine has caused chaos in agriculture markets
By Megan Durisin,Slav Okov, andZoltan Simon
March 5, 2022

Governments around the world are taking steps to safeguard domestic food supplies after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine roiled trade and sent prices of key staples soaring



*It has been going on unnoticed for months but when India announced the ban, it has triggered a worldwide awareness, something is not right. 

Better stockpile some food at home. *

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526337077478039553

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## CAPRICORN-88

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526197550776299521
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526102901860577280


India has offers to buy Malaysian and Indonesia Palm Oil in exchange for sales of weaponries. 

So far NO DEAL.


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## Apollon

wahhab0202 said:


> Last 2 successions in Egypt were not particularly smooth. Oil producing countries in are not seems to have political stability as good as Russia. Morocco and Algeria were in the brink of war few months back. Nigeria, Angola and some oil producing countries in Africa also politically unstable. Security threat in form of terrorism and piracy also common in this region.



Russia has no political stability. You dont buy oil from a facist hellhole that dreams to conquer you one day.

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## CAPRICORN-88

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526337077478039553


Russia agreed to allow the wounded Ukrainian or AZOV neo-NAZI soldiers to leave Azovstal Steelworks as long as they SURRENDER.

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## Apollon

LeGenD said:


> Looks like Russian forces have taken Mariupol. This battle lasted 82 days.
> 
> I have updated relevant section in the repository thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Repository of journalistic sources and how to use them with Russia - Ukraine War in focus and Fact-checking considerations
> 
> 
> Dear members, Some members complain about the issue of reporting bias (and propaganda) in journalistic contents. These complaints were noticed in the following thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-ukraine-war-news-and-developments.706984/ This thread is created to address the...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk



The city is completly destroyed and has zero value anymore. Since Russia lacks the funds to rebuild any infrastructure, its more a burden.



Wood said:


> Very interesting to know that there are Russians in Berlin who still support Putin. The Russian community in the city is divided in loyalty



They are more and more seen as enemies here. Should be careful because it could backfire extremly against them. 


Painting a Z on your car in Germany is a good way to get your windows smashed.


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## A.P. Richelieu

SalarHaqq said:


> There's no law in Iraq calling for the amputation of a thief's hand. The US tank crushed the car unlawfully no matter how one will look at it.
> 
> _____
> 
> 
> 
> Contradictory statements.
> 
> 
> 
> The treaty's focus is on whether or not the incendiary effect of a munition is incidental. Which logically ought to be determined not just by the technical classification and nature of the munition, but also by how and to what effect it is actually being employed by the ones firing it. Especially if it lends itself to dual use, and white phosphorous does much more so than a simple smoke grenade.
> 
> Thence, if white phosphorous is used not to illuminate, trace, create smoke or to signal, but to set fire to objects or to cause burn injury to persons (reflecting the description made of an incendiary weapon in Article 1.1. of the Protocol), then white phosphorous will be considered a weapon indeed, and its use will be governed by the limitations stipulated for in the Protocol.
> 
> In other words, should white phosphorous be utilized to damage assets or kill enemy combatants located amidst concentrations of civilians, then this will be a war crime. Let alone if civilian areas are showered with it in order to cause terror and fear.


Obviously you have not read the treaty.
It is noted in the treaty that smoke munition has incendiary effects, but is still not incendiary weapons.






So the use of smoke munition can never be considered a war crime based on this treaty, regardless if the smoke munition contains White Phosphorus or not.


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## A.P. Richelieu

Soldier35 said:


> The American M777A2 howitzers came to Ukraine without the AFCS digital fire control system. The system allows for automatic correction of fire by GPS, which allows you to increase the pace and accuracy of shooting. Why this electronic unit was removed is not clear, perhaps because of fears that the howitzer will fall into the hands of the Russian army. There have already been reports that one howitzer has been captured by Russia. It is worth noting that the M777 howitzer is quite good and the lightest in the world. One of the problems when using it in Ukraine may be the cost of ammunition, the price of a projectile from $ 60,000.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian troops used incendiary shells MZ-21 on Azovstal in Mariupol. The Ukrainian media immediately announced phosphorus ammunition, but in fact unguided rockets MZ-21 were used. The 9M22S projectile is designed for firing from the BM-21 Grad combat vehicle. The incendiary element of the projectile is a shell of hexagonal cross-section made of magnesium alloy ML-5, in the blind socket of which a pyrotechnic composition is pressed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Azov battalion surrendered in the city of Mariupol. The wounded are being taken out of Azovstal. The commander of the Azov, Denis Prokopenko, published a video message in which he de facto recognized the surrender of the Azov. "The defenders of Mariupol fulfilled the order, despite all the difficulties, they delayed the superior enemy forces for 82 days and allowed the Ukrainian army to regroup, prepare more personnel and receive a large amount of weapons from partner countries. No weapons will work without professionally trained military personnel, which makes them the most valuable element of the army. For the sake of saving lives, the entire Mariupol garrison fulfills the approved decision of the supreme military command and hopes for the support of the Ukrainian people."


The cost of of the GPS controlled shell Excalibur may be high, but ordinary shells does not cost $60k. Ordinary shells are much cheaper.


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## jhungary

The SC said:


> It is simple.. Russia had almost $600 billion of foreign reserves in Western banks..and they were all frozen by the new sanctions.. Russia responded by confiscating the Western assets in Russia.. it already did worth $500 billion..


It did not worth 500 billions, it worth what it was worth at the time of siezure. Which if I have to guess, zero.

Because you don't have the French or whoever to pay you when you confiscated those site, Which mean those recovering site would not cost you any money but at the same time it will not make you any money. You may be able to craw something back from selling whatever it was inside that factory but you wouldn't be able to see it oversea as Russia have no capability to convert foreign currency to rouble, which mean it worth nothing.

Those site only worth 500 billions or so revenue if they were there to make whatever they are making, if they are not, then only asset worth anything. Which most asset would have been pull if they aren't nailed down before they were confiscated, which mean they only worth a fraction of their original revenue,


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## DF41

CAPRICORN-88 said:


>














.


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## jhungary

MisterSyed said:


> Care to explain a bit??


That mean Russian are nationalise Foreign asset in Russia

The problem is, that wouldn't do much, because a company only have its worth when they are able to make money. Say a McDonald in Moscow Red Square, the reason why that McDonald worth 900 or so millions dollars is not because it have 900 millions dollar worth of asset in it (like Ice cream machine, deep fryer or etc) the reason why they worth 900 million is because they serve 300,000 customer annually using those equipment.

Which mean when Russia confiscated that McDonald, Russian did not get 900 millions dollar worth of a company, because it no longer serve any customer, what Russian Government have is the ice cream machine, deepfryer that got left behind (or whatever left behind) They can try to use them and serve local customer but it would not be the same 900 million revenue that McDonald were earning.

On the other hand, once you confiscated that site, you don't just inherit the asset, you also inherit the debt, The wages of the local Russian Employee, the mortgage of any asset, the rent of the location and so on, assuming Russian government will not honor those debt, which mean Russian government will inherit whatever they have after the site went thru the balance sheet,

For example, when German Government nationalise Gazpom Germany, they have to pay around 500 millions to settle the debt before they can use that company......

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> It did not worth 500 billions, it worth what it was worth at the time of siezure. Which if I have to guess, zero.
> 
> Because you don't have the French or whoever to pay you when you confiscated those site, Which mean those recovering site would not cost you any money but at the same time it will not make you any money. You may be able to craw something back from selling whatever it was inside that factory but you wouldn't be able to see it oversea as Russia have no capability to convert foreign currency to rouble, which mean it worth nothing.
> 
> Those site only worth 500 billions or so revenue if they were there to make whatever they are making, if they are not, then only asset worth anything. Which most asset would have been pull if they aren't nailed down before they were confiscated, which mean they only worth a fraction of their original revenue,


Those western assets seized by Russia will become worthless. Take gas infrasttucture, the land gas pipelines to Germany were built by BASF. Without German engineers, spare parts, those pipelines will disintegrate over time. Same for Russian aircraft, they can’t fly anywhere without Boeing, Airbus spare parts, software, experts. Same for almost all western imports. How will they fix Mercedes when it’s broken? There is no chance to repair it.


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## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *Sometimes I wonder why some former Khmer Krom Vietcong don't joined the Ukrainian as smart Alec advisors and teach them Ukrainian, how to fight from FOXHOLES.*
> 
> Instead of posting annoying messages of ZERO value to irritate other members.


I will continue to post, cry harder. This here a public forum. My comments are based on facts. Your comments as I see it mostly based on lies, racism, propaganda, disinformation.


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## CAPRICORN-88

Fart is what a THICKSKINNED Khmer Kromin here can offered.

Cry baby originated back from the days of NAM.

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## CAPRICORN-88



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## ARMalik

Huffal said:


> Incendiary?



Exactly that's what is it called ! Thanks.


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## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Fart is what a THICKSKINNED Khmer Kromin here can offered.
> 
> Cry baby originated back from the days of NAM.


Too late bro
Putin’s initial attack plan to seize Mariupol as quick as possible, then concentrating east and southern army groups to encircle Ukrainian army at Donbas. This plan fails. Mariupol late falling is the nail on Putin offensive. Just a matter of time Ukrainian counteroffensive coming.


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## Shakuni Mama

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> The simple ban of export of wheat by India is raising alarm of what the Russia-Ukraine conflict is now leading us to.
> 
> *An anticipated shortage of essential food supply worldwide. *
> 
> And India's wheat merely accounts for 3% of the combined world export and is already causing an impact.



Which all countries are there which produce it for export in double figures ?

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## jhungary

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> *Sometimes I wonder why some former Khmer Krom Vietcong don't joined the Ukrainian as smart Alec advisors and teach them Ukrainian, how to fight from FOXHOLES.*
> 
> Instead of posting annoying messages of ZERO value to irritate other members.


@LeGenD something here for you to deal with,



Viet said:


> Those western assets seized by Russia will become worthless. Take gas infrasttucture, the land gas pipelines to Germany were built by BASF. Without German engineers, spare parts, those pipelines will disintegrate over time. Same for Russian aircraft, they can’t fly anywhere without Boeing, Airbus spare parts, software, experts. Same for almost all western imports. How will they fix Mercedes when it’s broken? There is no chance to repair it.



Yeah, as I said, it did not really get the money back that way, you can confiscate their asset but then that is not the end of the story here, you will need to maintain it, service it, and repair it, The natural way would have to be selling them. But then unless they are selling them in Russia, they really can't sell them to anyone else, because you would have to be paying in rouble.

Take those rental jet for example, they can confiscate it, that does not mean they can use it, it take spare parts and maintenance to use those jet. Without them, they would just be sitting in a hanger. The Russian cannot sell them either. Who will pay billions of rouble for an Airbus?

When you took over a business operation, as I said, you don't just take over the asset, you also take over the debt as well.


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## wahhab0202

Apollon said:


> Russia has no political stability. You dont buy oil from a facist hellhole that dreams to conquer you one day.


Do you observe any political turmoil or chaotic transfer of power in Russian in the last 20 years? Or may be significant internal security threat in Russia? I didn't see it and probably won't see it in a good foreseeable future. To me Russia seems to be pretty normal in term of political stability.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> That would definitely help with focus on only one artillery model instead of a dozen variety provided by the west but they still need as much as possible in the current fighting because it will be awhile to build more of these Bohdanas. At least this is very mobile with shoot and scoot capability. The U.S. military is also interested in their own version. Don't know if they will go for more automation. Also wonder if they will include the longer barrel M777 version on the vehicle as well as stand alone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @jhungary @F-22Raptor @Vergennes
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525448394159931394
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525448411436175360


At this stage, it's not going to be picky, they would need everything they can get their hands on to push the Russian out, but in a long term, or even medium to long term and within this war, they need to look at singular platform for their stuff.

That is why if the Brits and Polish firm really are going to make the 2S22, this is where the Ukrainian want to go, it's a system they familiar with, and they were being made in the safety of Britain and Poland. You don't need no retraining, and it would perfectly fit into the Ukrainian direction.

They would needed to be a requirement, it is a necessity.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Shakuni Mama said:


> Which all countries are there which produce it for export in double figures ?


The top wheat producing countries in the world is China, India and Russia. Together they accounts for more than 300 million tons annually. China alone accounts for 135 million tons. India is 107 millions tons.
These 3 countries accounts for 41% of the world total. 

The rest are insignificant e.g. USA which came in 4th is 49 million tons. And Canada 35 million tons.

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## CAPRICORN-88

‘Perfect storm’ in food prices hits Asia’s outlook​Reopening economies after Covid, supply-chain hits, inflation, Fed tightening, China’s slowdown all play a role
By WILLIAM PESEKMAY 16, 2022

In a recent report, the United Nations warned that surging food prices after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine amounted to a “perfect storm” of risk to economic development in Asia.

The UN may be understating the threat.
On any list of descriptions that economists overuse, “perfect storm” is right at the very top. Except, of course, when no other expression will do in a region already reeling from Covid-19-related disruptions.
lite revel

Asia Times

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## Apollon

wahhab0202 said:


> Do you observe any political turmoil or chaotic transfer of power in Russian in the last 20 years? Or may be significant internal security threat in Russia? I didn't see it and probably won't see it in a good foreseeable future. To me Russia seems to be pretty normal in term of political stability.



Yes i do see that. They attack neighbors and want opress all of Europe. Bigger instability is not possible.

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## mhosein

British volunteer says he was ‘manipulated’ into joining the frontline in Ukraine​Published: 17 May 2022 | 07:28 GMT

The Briton told RT that he came to help civilians, but was pushed into combat by Ukrainian officers

Andrew from Plymouth says he traveled to Ukraine to treat wounded civilians, but within weeks, he found himself shelled, shot, and captured. Recovering in a hospital, he told RT that he and his fellow volunteers were _“manipulated”_ into the very duty they swore to avoid.

Andrew, a 35-year-old who worked as a scaffolder back home in Britain, was attached to a unit of Ukraine’s International Legion near Nikolayev when he came under a devastating Russian artillery barrage. Russian troops fired on his position, Andrew was hit in the arm with a bullet, and he surrendered.

_“I wasn’t there to fight so I surrendered,”_ he told RT. As for his teammates who fought, _“They were killed,”_ he explained.

Andrew said that he never intended to participate in, or even get close to, combat. Watching media reports about the conflict in Ukraine in March, he said he got the impression that _“Ukraine was asking people for help,”_ and contacted the Ukrainian Embassy.

Leaving his children behind, he flew from the UK to Poland, and made his way to the Ukrainian border. After a brief stint _“helping refugees”_ there, he said he was approached by a man named ‘Jacob’ from the International Legion, who told him that his basic medical experience – gained with the British military – could be put to use further inside Ukraine.

_“I feel sad,”_ he told RT. _“I do feel that I’ve been lied to, massively. Not just by the Foreign Legion, but I feel like I was lied to back in the UK through the Western media.”_ Andrew said that news reports of _“people all coming over helping, going to Ukraine, helping Ukraine,”_ made the trip seem like an easy prospect.

Once inside Ukraine, Andrew recalls traveling to a building in Lviv, where he and a cohort of foreigners were kept indoors for several days, allegedly for their own safety. Although he served in the British Army, Andrew said that he had no combat experience, and that volunteers like him were kept separate from veterans who came to Ukraine to fight.

From there, the group was bussed to Yavoriv – where a training center for foreign recruits had been destroyed by a Russian missile – and then to Kiev, where a Ukrainian handler told them that the situation would be similar to that in Lviv: _“‘You will be locked down, you can’t leave the building, you have to stay in, you will be fed, water will be provided to you, wait until further instruction.’”_

Andrew’s first interaction with Ukrainian civilians came at the beginning of April in the town of Bucha, where he said that he cooked and distributed food. Although he arrived in Bucha after Russian troops had left, he said that he saw no signs of the war crimes that the Ukrainian government later attributed to the Russians there.

_“I didn’t see any corpses myself, didn’t see anything, it looked untouched,”_ he recalled, adding that he remained on the outskirts of the town._ “It all seemed normal. There weren't any signs of any fighting.”_

After only a day in Bucha, another bus ride took Andrew and his companions to Nikolaev, which he said was _“closer to the front than I was aware of.”_ Even after he was moved up to a combat unit of six other foreigners outside the city, Andrew said that things seemed quiet. However, the day after he was sent to the front, the position was attacked.

_“I got shot in my arm, broke my bones,”_ he told RT. As Russian troops advanced, Andrew lay on the ground with his good hand above his head, until a Russian soldier dragged him into a foxhole and administered first aid. _“I’m very lucky to survive,”_ he recalled. _“The Russian soldier that gave me first aid saved my life. The bullet cut my artery and I was bleeding out.”_

Andrew’s captor offered him a cigarette before he was moved back through Russian lines for surgery and questioning. Currently awaiting two further rounds of surgery in a hospital under the authority of the Donbass People’s Republic (DPR), he told RT that there were many volunteers like him who ended up _“in a situation that you don’t want to be in.”

“Everyone seemed to be normal people that wanted to help,”_ he said of his fellow volunteers, a group that included British, Canadian, American, German, and Danish members. However, he said that many felt _“the same way as me,”_ in that they felt like they were _“manipulated”_ into helping soldiers rather than civilians.

Since his capture, Andrew told RT that he was being treated _“very well”_ in the hospital. _“Everyone’s being very friendly. I’m receiving medical aid every day, being fed three times a day, I get water, tea, coffee, everything I need,”_ he explained. He said that DPR authorities are currently seeking to return him to the UK, but need the cooperation of the British Home Office and Ukrainian embassy in London to arrange the transfer.

Neither London nor Kiev are cooperating with the DPR’s requests, he told RT.



https://www.rt.com/russia/555588-british-volunteer-captured-ukraine/



Ukraine orders Azovstal fighters to surrender​Published: 16 May 2022 | 23:01 GMT

The units have “completed the assigned combat mission,” Kiev claims

The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine confirmed on its social media networks on Tuesday evening that its servicemen holed up at the Azovstal steelworks in Mariupol have been ordered to surrender. 

_“The garrison ‘Mariupol’ has completed the assigned combat mission. The highest military command issued an order to the commanders of the units located at Azovstal to save the lives of the personnel,”_ the Ukrainian military statement explained. According to Kiev, while holding positions at Azovstal, its soldiers prevented Russian troops from operating in other theaters.

The two countries have been embroiled in a full-blown conflict since February, when Moscow attacked the neighboring state, following an eight-year standoff over the fate of the Donbass. 

Kiev insisted that the Azov neo-Nazis and members of its regular forces had _“prevented the implementation of the [alleged Russian] plan for the quick capture of [nearby] Zaporozhye, and did not allow access to the administrative border of the Donetsk and Zaporozhye regions.”_

The president of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, said that work on their return will require_ “delicacy and time.”

“Thanks to the actions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, intelligence, as well as the negotiating group, the International Committee of the Red Cross and the UN, we have hope that we will be able to save the lives of our guys. I want to emphasize that Ukraine needs Ukrainian heroes alive. This is our principle. I think that every adequate person will understand these words. To bring our military back home, the work continues, and this work requires delicacy and time,”_ he stated.

A large portion of them are members of the neo-Nazi Azov Regiment. The military uniforms of the group feature Nazi insignia and its members have been photographed with tattoos of symbols such as the swastika. Its first commander, Andrey Biletsky, has said he believes it’s Ukraine’s mission to_ “lead the white races of the world in a final crusade… against Semite-led Untermenschen [inferior humans].”_

The first stage of surrender was completed on Monday – 264 soldiers left Azovstal. There are now 53 wounded servicemen in a hospital in Novoazovsk and 211 soldiers in Yelenovka, both of which are part of the Donetsk People’s Republic. 

Russian sources have estimated that about 2,200 people have been trapped in the basements of the huge Azovstal complex. The site is 11 square kilometers long and its subterranean sections are designed to withstand a nuclear attack. 

According to the deputy minister of defense of Ukraine, Anna Malyar, and the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, those who surrender will be exchanged for Russian prisoners of war taken captive by Kiev. However, the terms of the exchange have not yet been decided.

Moscow has not yet made any public statements about an exchange. Meanwhile, the Ukrainian side has tried to avoid the use of the expression ‘surrender’.

After the last Ukrainian soldier leaves Azovstal, the battle for Mariupol will be effectively over and Russia will have gained total control of the strategically vital city.



https://www.rt.com/russia/555591-azovstal-captives-surrender-ukraine/

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## Apollon

mhosein said:


> British volunteer says he was ‘manipulated’ into joining the frontline in Ukraine​Published: 17 May 2022 | 07:28 GMT
> 
> The Briton told RT that he came to help civilians, but was pushed into combat by Ukrainian officers
> 
> Andrew from Plymouth says he traveled to Ukraine to treat wounded civilians, but within weeks, he found himself shelled, shot, and captured. Recovering in a hospital, he told RT that he and his fellow volunteers were _“manipulated”_ into the very duty they swore to avoid.
> 
> Andrew, a 35-year-old who worked as a scaffolder back home in Britain, was attached to a unit of Ukraine’s International Legion near Nikolayev when he came under a devastating Russian artillery barrage. Russian troops fired on his position, Andrew was hit in the arm with a bullet, and he surrendered.
> 
> _“I wasn’t there to fight so I surrendered,”_ he told RT. As for his teammates who fought, _“They were killed,”_ he explained.
> 
> Andrew said that he never intended to participate in, or even get close to, combat. Watching media reports about the conflict in Ukraine in March, he said he got the impression that _“Ukraine was asking people for help,”_ and contacted the Ukrainian Embassy.
> 
> Leaving his children behind, he flew from the UK to Poland, and made his way to the Ukrainian border. After a brief stint _“helping refugees”_ there, he said he was approached by a man named ‘Jacob’ from the International Legion, who told him that his basic medical experience – gained with the British military – could be put to use further inside Ukraine.
> 
> _“I feel sad,”_ he told RT. _“I do feel that I’ve been lied to, massively. Not just by the Foreign Legion, but I feel like I was lied to back in the UK through the Western media.”_ Andrew said that news reports of _“people all coming over helping, going to Ukraine, helping Ukraine,”_ made the trip seem like an easy prospect.
> 
> Once inside Ukraine, Andrew recalls traveling to a building in Lviv, where he and a cohort of foreigners were kept indoors for several days, allegedly for their own safety. Although he served in the British Army, Andrew said that he had no combat experience, and that volunteers like him were kept separate from veterans who came to Ukraine to fight.
> 
> From there, the group was bussed to Yavoriv – where a training center for foreign recruits had been destroyed by a Russian missile – and then to Kiev, where a Ukrainian handler told them that the situation would be similar to that in Lviv: _“‘You will be locked down, you can’t leave the building, you have to stay in, you will be fed, water will be provided to you, wait until further instruction.’”_
> 
> Andrew’s first interaction with Ukrainian civilians came at the beginning of April in the town of Bucha, where he said that he cooked and distributed food. Although he arrived in Bucha after Russian troops had left, he said that he saw no signs of the war crimes that the Ukrainian government later attributed to the Russians there.
> 
> _“I didn’t see any corpses myself, didn’t see anything, it looked untouched,”_ he recalled, adding that he remained on the outskirts of the town._ “It all seemed normal. There weren't any signs of any fighting.”_
> 
> After only a day in Bucha, another bus ride took Andrew and his companions to Nikolaev, which he said was _“closer to the front than I was aware of.”_ Even after he was moved up to a combat unit of six other foreigners outside the city, Andrew said that things seemed quiet. However, the day after he was sent to the front, the position was attacked.
> 
> _“I got shot in my arm, broke my bones,”_ he told RT. As Russian troops advanced, Andrew lay on the ground with his good hand above his head, until a Russian soldier dragged him into a foxhole and administered first aid. _“I’m very lucky to survive,”_ he recalled. _“The Russian soldier that gave me first aid saved my life. The bullet cut my artery and I was bleeding out.”_
> 
> Andrew’s captor offered him a cigarette before he was moved back through Russian lines for surgery and questioning. Currently awaiting two further rounds of surgery in a hospital under the authority of the Donbass People’s Republic (DPR), he told RT that there were many volunteers like him who ended up _“in a situation that you don’t want to be in.”
> 
> “Everyone seemed to be normal people that wanted to help,”_ he said of his fellow volunteers, a group that included British, Canadian, American, German, and Danish members. However, he said that many felt _“the same way as me,”_ in that they felt like they were _“manipulated”_ into helping soldiers rather than civilians.
> 
> Since his capture, Andrew told RT that he was being treated _“very well”_ in the hospital. _“Everyone’s being very friendly. I’m receiving medical aid every day, being fed three times a day, I get water, tea, coffee, everything I need,”_ he explained. He said that DPR authorities are currently seeking to return him to the UK, but need the cooperation of the British Home Office and Ukrainian embassy in London to arrange the transfer.
> 
> Neither London nor Kiev are cooperating with the DPR’s requests, he told RT.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.rt.com/russia/555588-british-volunteer-captured-ukraine/
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine orders Azovstal fighters to surrender​Published: 16 May 2022 | 23:01 GMT
> 
> The units have “completed the assigned combat mission,” Kiev claims
> 
> The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine confirmed on its social media networks on Tuesday evening that its servicemen holed up at the Azovstal steelworks in Mariupol have been ordered to surrender.
> 
> _“The garrison ‘Mariupol’ has completed the assigned combat mission. The highest military command issued an order to the commanders of the units located at Azovstal to save the lives of the personnel,”_ the Ukrainian military statement explained. According to Kiev, while holding positions at Azovstal, its soldiers prevented Russian troops from operating in other theaters.
> 
> The two countries have been embroiled in a full-blown conflict since February, when Moscow attacked the neighboring state, following an eight-year standoff over the fate of the Donbass.
> 
> Kiev insisted that the Azov neo-Nazis and members of its regular forces had _“prevented the implementation of the [alleged Russian] plan for the quick capture of [nearby] Zaporozhye, and did not allow access to the administrative border of the Donetsk and Zaporozhye regions.”_
> 
> The president of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, said that work on their return will require_ “delicacy and time.”
> 
> “Thanks to the actions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, intelligence, as well as the negotiating group, the International Committee of the Red Cross and the UN, we have hope that we will be able to save the lives of our guys. I want to emphasize that Ukraine needs Ukrainian heroes alive. This is our principle. I think that every adequate person will understand these words. To bring our military back home, the work continues, and this work requires delicacy and time,”_ he stated.
> 
> A large portion of them are members of the neo-Nazi Azov Regiment. The military uniforms of the group feature Nazi insignia and its members have been photographed with tattoos of symbols such as the swastika. Its first commander, Andrey Biletsky, has said he believes it’s Ukraine’s mission to_ “lead the white races of the world in a final crusade… against Semite-led Untermenschen [inferior humans].”_
> 
> The first stage of surrender was completed on Monday – 264 soldiers left Azovstal. There are now 53 wounded servicemen in a hospital in Novoazovsk and 211 soldiers in Yelenovka, both of which are part of the Donetsk People’s Republic.
> 
> Russian sources have estimated that about 2,200 people have been trapped in the basements of the huge Azovstal complex. The site is 11 square kilometers long and its subterranean sections are designed to withstand a nuclear attack.
> 
> According to the deputy minister of defense of Ukraine, Anna Malyar, and the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, those who surrender will be exchanged for Russian prisoners of war taken captive by Kiev. However, the terms of the exchange have not yet been decided.
> 
> Moscow has not yet made any public statements about an exchange. Meanwhile, the Ukrainian side has tried to avoid the use of the expression ‘surrender’.
> 
> After the last Ukrainian soldier leaves Azovstal, the battle for Mariupol will be effectively over and Russia will have gained total control of the strategically vital city.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.rt.com/russia/555591-azovstal-captives-surrender-ukraine/



The city is no more so it has zero value for russia.


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## Primus

Apollon said:


> The city is no more so it has zero value for russia.


What?


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## Apollon

Huffal said:


> What?



Mariupol doesnt exist anymore. The city is 90% destroyed. Russia has no forces to build up even basic infrastructure. Population is either evacuated or wounded, elderly and sick. Its a burden.


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## Primus

Apollon said:


> Mariupol doesnt exist anymore. The city is 90% destroyed. Russia has no forces to build up even basic infrastructure. Population is either evacuated or wounded, elderly and sick. Its a burden.


In future years, when the war is over, it will be a burden. But as of now, it is a strategic gain for Russia.

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## CAPRICORN-88



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## Apollon

Huffal said:


> In future years, when the war is over, it will be a burden. But as of now, it is a strategic gain for Russia.



It has as much strategic gain as any field around it. Even worse it works as symbol for russian barbarism and acts like a martyr city for Ukraine. As experts say, Putin is the father of Ukraine as a true independent nation.

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## CAPRICORN-88

But there will be a response, he said.

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## CAPRICORN-88



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## Bengal71

PakFactor said:


> View attachment 844600



Agreed. 

In European aur Amrikan salee ko marne do. We have no dog in the fight. Get popcorn and enjoy the show.

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## RoadAmerica

The SC said:


> In the first major nationalization process, Russia acquires the French "Renault" factories in the country..
> 
> View attachment 844702
> 
> 
> @euronewsar


Finally they can stop ma


CAPRICORN-88 said:


>


🥱were there even 100 people there?



The SC said:


> It is simple.. Russia had almost $600 billion of foreign reserves in Western banks..and they were all frozen by the new sanctions.. Russia responded by confiscating the Western assets in Russia.. it already did worth $500 billion..


Not exactly, there’s lots more too it. Such as Russia forcing companies to convert 75% of their foreign cash into the shitty ruble.


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## wahhab0202

Apollon said:


> Yes i do see that. They attack neighbors and want opress all of Europe. Bigger instability is not possible.


Let see then. Good luck with your look Africa for Hydrocarbon strategy,

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## wahhab0202

Many countries would be relieved if this scenario happen. High oil price could hinder global economic recovery post pandemic.









Failure To Implement Russian Oil Ban Could Send Oil Crashing To $65 | OilPrice.com


Lack of internal support for a full EU embargo on Russian crude oil may take out one of the key fear factors for oil, which may send prices crashing back to $65 per barrel




oilprice.com

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## Apollon

wahhab0202 said:


> Let see then. Good luck with your look Africa for Hydrocarbon strategy,



Did the UK buy products from Nazi Germany between 1939 and 1945?


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## Bengal71

The SC said:


> In the first major nationalization process, Russia acquires the French "Renault" factories in the country..
> 
> View attachment 844702
> 
> 
> @euronewsar



I thought Renault sold it with the option to buy back in 6 years.


----------



## lcloo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526197550776299521
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526102901860577280


KFC and McDonald food prices are going to be expensive worldwide, except may be in Indonesia.



CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Food Protectionism Is Spreading as Hungary Bans Grain Exports​
> Argentina, Turkey also moved this week to increase control
> Invasion of Ukraine has caused chaos in agriculture markets
> By Megan Durisin,Slav Okov, andZoltan Simon
> March 5, 2022
> 
> Governments around the world are taking steps to safeguard domestic food supplies after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine roiled trade and sent prices of key staples soaring
> 
> 
> 
> *It has been going on unnoticed for months but when India announced the ban, it has triggered a worldwide awareness, something is not right.
> 
> Better stockpile some food at home. *


Don't buy gold. Buy and stock up food at home for next 24 months. Food is the king, cash will lose much value.

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## khansaheeb



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## wahhab0202

Apollon said:


> Did the UK buy products from Nazi Germany between 1939 and 1945?


What does it have to do with todays event between Russia and EU?

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## Apollon

wahhab0202 said:


> What does it have to do with todays event between Russia and EU?



Putin wants an eurasian empire and claimed the long term goal is to take all of Europe. Buying oil from Russia is like UK buying products from Hitler. 


This isnt about Ukraine. Its just the first victim. We must destroy russia in Ukraine or have to fight them on our lands later

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## CAPRICORN-88

RoadAmerica said:


> Finally they can stop ma
> 
> 🥱were there even 100 people there?
> 
> 
> Not exactly, there’s lots more too it. Such as Russia forcing companies to convert 75% of their foreign cash into the shitty ruble.


I thought you people always boasts about Freedom of expression of Speech but now you qualified it with a specific numbers as well. 

So how many do you reckon will make it a valid rally?

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## Indos

Apollon said:


> Putin wants an eurasian empire and claimed the long term goal is to take all of Europe. Buying oil from Russia is like UK buying products from Hitler.
> 
> 
> This isnt about Ukraine. Its just the first victim. We must destroy russia in Ukraine or have to fight them on our lands later



Maybe it is related to religion ? Christian Orthodox vs Catholic Rome/ Protestant ????


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## CAPRICORN-88

wahhab0202 said:


> What does it have to do with todays event between Russia and EU?


His answer will probably frustrated you as it is all over the place and it is hard for any normal person to really understand what he is trying to say.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Indos said:


> Maybe it is related to religion ? Christian Orthodox vs Catholic Rome/ Protestant ????


But what has it got to do with religion?

Not unless we are saying Nazism is a religion and Putin in his denazification special military operation is out to suppress another religion.

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## Wergeland

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> India has offers to buy Malaysian and Indonesia Palm Oil in exchange for sales of weaponries.
> 
> So far NO DEAL.


 What weaponries ?


----------



## Indos

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> But what has it got to do with religion?
> 
> Not unless we are saying Nazism is a religion and Putin in his denazification special military operation is out to suppress another religion.



You dont understand Christianity, just look Apollon doesnt want to answer it give us clue it may be one of the factors as well. Putin is Ortodox follower and he get blessed by Ortodox Church in Rusia with this military operation in Ukraine.

Dont talk about Nazism Ukraine, only fool who believe with Putin saying Ukraine has Nazism ideology

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## DF41

khansaheeb said:


>




*US NEWS

Bunch of unrelated shots jumbled together to make it seem Ukrnazis winning

USA think rest of the world to be idiots

*

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## khansaheeb

Apollon said:


> Putin wants an eurasian empire and claimed the long term goal is to take all of Europe. Buying oil from Russia is like UK buying products from Hitler.
> 
> 
> This isnt about Ukraine. Its just the first victim. We must destroy russia in Ukraine or have to fight them on our lands later


Hey, Don't reflect your ideology ono others.

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## rambro

azov/nazi troops hiding in azovstal catacombs & tunnels surrendered

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## Wood

Oldman1 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526333878788665345


This man will not be invited often to the show 😉


----------



## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526399745316605952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526470397113389056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526489601313054722


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525618896727773185

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## Corax

It's funny how not a single western media source is using the word "surrender", for that is what it is... the Azov neo-Nazis in the Azovstal steel plant have *surrendered*.

Instead, they're using "evacuated".

And after all the weeks of bluster about how "thousands of brave Ukrainian Azov fighters", sometimes quoting figures of up to 2,000 fighters, it turns out there's no more than around 3,00 ragtag bunch of neo-Nazis who used civilians as human shields.

It's funny how the western media so quickly accuse others of state propaganda, but are themselves the very mouthpiece of state misinformation.

Mariupol: Hundreds of besieged Ukrainian soldiers evacuated

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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526383086950154241

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526456014995963906

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## Apollon

Russian commander shot his own wounded soldiers 










Russian commander 'shot wounded troops after asking if they could no longer walk'


Wounded Russian soldiers were executed by their commander instead of being taken for medical help, captured invaders have claimed.




www.lbc.co.uk







Corax said:


> It's funny how not a single western media source is using the word "surrender", for that is what it is... the Azov neo-Nazis in the Azovstal steel plant have *surrendered*.
> 
> Instead, they're using "evacuated".
> 
> And after all the weeks of bluster about how "thousands of brave Ukrainian Azov fighters", sometimes quoting figures of up to 2,000 fighters, it turns out there's no more than around 3,00 ragtag bunch of neo-Nazis who used civilians as human shields.
> 
> It's funny how the western media so quickly accuse others of state propaganda, but are themselves the very mouthpiece of state misinformation.
> 
> Mariupol: Hundreds of besieged Ukrainian soldiers evacuated



Yet they killed thousands of russians and blocked russia for 3 months. I admire them



khansaheeb said:


> Hey, Don't reflect your ideology ono others.



Im not a putinist nazi.



Indos said:


> Maybe it is related to religion ? Christian Orthodox vs Catholic Rome/ Protestant ????



Nothing to do with religion. Putin is a Nazi. He follows philosophers like Dugin who praise about a eurasian empire. Russia itself has no power and never will. Its a Gas station. The cultural and economic powers are in Europe and without that Russia will always be a big nothing. As putin said: Lissabon to Vladivostok is his dream. So we have to crush russia in Ukraine or later have this fight on our land.

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## DF41

DF41 said:


> *US NEWS
> 
> Bunch of unrelated shots jumbled together to make it seem Ukrnazis winning
> 
> USA think rest of the world to be idiots
> 
> *



Some nice examples of shots from Ukrnazis 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526485445504167936.

😆😆😆🤣🤣🤣 And Western Msms lapped that all up singing hosannas to a bunch of cowardly nazis









Troops defending Kharkiv reached Russian border, Ukraine says


Ukraine said on Monday troops defending the country's second-largest city, Kharkiv, had repelled Russian forces and advanced as far as the border with Russia.




www.reuters.com





The amount of fake news coming from Ukraine make me suspect Pompeo there directing the news to the world

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## wahhab0202

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> His answer will probably frustrated you as it is all over the place and it is hard for any normal person to really understand what he is trying to say.


I have to admit that I need some times to understand what is said by him. I thought it is due to the long covid that I suffer before.

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## kingQamaR

Corax said:


> It's funny how not a single western media source is using the word "surrender", for that is what it is... the Azov neo-Nazis in the Azovstal steel plant have *surrendered*.
> 
> Instead, they're using "evacuated".
> 
> And after all the weeks of bluster about how "thousands of brave Ukrainian Azov fighters", sometimes quoting figures of up to 2,000 fighters, it turns out there's no more than around 3,00 ragtag bunch of neo-Nazis who used civilians as human shields.
> 
> It's funny how the western media so quickly accuse others of state propaganda, but are themselves the very mouthpiece of state misinformation.
> 
> Mariupol: Hundreds of besieged Ukrainian soldiers evacuated



Let's see you in the same situation, defending your country in those conditions before you make judgement of them not being heros. Please tell us your life achievements

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## Apollon

wahhab0202 said:


> I have to admit that I need some times to understand what is said by him. I thought it is due to the long covid that I suffer before.



I think what i said is quite easy to understand. It is an idiotic strategy to fund your enemy. And Russia with Putinism is our enemy.



kingQamaR said:


> Let's see you in the same situation, defending your country in those conditions before you make judgement of them not being heros. Please tell us your life achievements



Does working in some chinese sweatshop is an achievement?

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## kingQamaR

How many Russian troops were committed to the siege? If they had surrendered, these Russian resources would have been deployed elsewhere.


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## Apollon

Interior of a destroyed T-72


----------



## wahhab0202

kingQamaR said:


> Let's see you in the same situation, defending your country in those conditions before you make judgement of them not being heros. Please tell us your life achievements


I can feel what the Azov defenders have went through. In fact I some times imagine myself in their position (I closely follow this Azovstal saga). And if I were in their position I think I'll do what Taliban do during their war with US. A lot of them died fighting, many of them taken capture and torture in the infamous Guantanamo bay. but none of them went to the internet making plea to the world to be evacuated to a third country. Soldiers fight till death or in a difficult situation, surrender.

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## Apollon

Ukrainians shelling russian dug in positions 








Crazy how accurate western artillery is.


----------



## Paul2

Apollon said:


> Ukrainians shelling russian dug in positions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crazy how accurate western artillery is.


The size of explosions is not big enough for 155/152


----------



## Apollon

Russians run for their lifes as their position gets shelled .

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## PakFactor

DF41 said:


> Some nice examples of shots from Ukrnazis
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526485445504167936.
> 
> 😆😆😆🤣🤣🤣 And Western Msms lapped that all up signing hosannas to a bunch of cowardly nazis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Troops defending Kharkiv reached Russian border, Ukraine says
> 
> 
> Ukraine said on Monday troops defending the country's second-largest city, Kharkiv, had repelled Russian forces and advanced as far as the border with Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The amount of fake news coming from Ukraine make me suspect Pompeo there directing the news to the world



So they basically stole the border post and made a video out of it dumbass Ukrainians. LOL

The first casualty in this conflict is the truth.

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## Paul2

Nothing remarkable today aside from a massive missile attack

Few watch posts lost, few tanks, 1 spg, 1 SAM on Russian side

Very little Ukrainian vehicle losses as of late

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## Viet

Judging Putin’s calm reaction to Sweden, Finland bid to join the NATO, he appears to accept the fate. He probably is frustrated Russia can’t afford three front wars.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526597300117815296


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526594597719355393

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## DF41

wahhab0202 said:


> I can feel what the Azov defenders have went through. In fact I some times imagine myself in their position (I closely follow this Azovstal saga). And if I were in their position I think I'll do what Taliban do during their war with US. A lot of them died fighting, many of them taken capture and torture in the infamous Guantanamo bay. but none of them went to the internet making plea to the world to be evacuated to a third country. Soldiers fight till death or in a difficult situation, surrender.



And sending their wives to the Pope to beg for divine intercession and holy deliverance.

Might have been better if the wives go to Beijing and crawl 3 times around TianAnMeng square and beg for audience with Xi Dada. But probably they be kicked out before they reached TianAnMeng.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526547650035822592

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## Gripen9

Su25s low level pass to evade Manpads



https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cdlzwn1gVEQ/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet


----------



## coffee_cup

What on earth is going on here?

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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526600208846622721

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526336596576026624

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526623663142981632


----------



## DF41

10 time more Nazis than Mariupol be coming up next



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525390617764839424

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## sammuel

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526623663142981632



No one attacked them since WW2 , what is he blabbing about ?

~


----------



## Viet

DF41 said:


> 10 time more Nazis than Mariupol be coming up next
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525390617764839424


Do you earn one ruble for every one word “nazi”? Keep it up. You will be rich. I give you a hint: Str+C. Str+V. Works much quicker.


----------



## RoadAmerica

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> I thought you people always boasts about Freedom of expression of Speech but now you qualified it with a specific numbers as well.
> 
> So how many do you reckon will make it a valid rally?


Seriously? That isn’t even a rally. What happened to all of support “you people” claim Putin has🤷🏿‍♂️


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526582596968275969


----------



## BHAN85

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526594597719355393



And the proves are where?

So easy accuse people of sexual crimes without proves.

Sexual crimes are believe easily and are easy viralized, because people are morbid and that kind of disgusting news are always the most read.

You should pray to nobody tweet your photo with your mother someday in false raping claims.

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## Dustom9

Apollon said:


> Interior of a destroyed T-72
> 
> View attachment 844812


 With Thales electronics installed?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526627614609358850

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526613659308503041

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## The SC

European chess board moves:

A dynamic equilibrium has been formed at the moment.. Russia is interested in de-escalation.. Italy, France and Germany are procrastinating.. Hungary suspends gas embargo.. there is a week delay concerning the US aid, due to approvals.. Economic changes.. US inflation.. the rise of the ruble and the decline of the dollar and the euro..

Accordingly a stalemate arose.. and the West has only two scenarios:

Either introduce new characters on the military board in the form of Poland, Romania and the Baltic states from the West, but this is the path of escalation and expansion into World War III
Or the path of pacification and new alliances..

what is the evidence:

On Friday, Pentagon chief Austin called Shoigu and offered him a ceasefire..
Putin receives the CSTO and temporarily states that the bloc does not intend to participate in the special military operation..

On the same evening, the Azov fighters announced the surrender of the wounded and the injured, and the Russian Ministry of Defense, in complete secrecy and without any advertisements, took in ambulances prisoners of war with an unusual passivity by the Azov Ukrainian warriors..

At the same time:

The European Union announces that it will allow Russian gas..
Erdogan unexpectedly announced that he is not ready to vote for Finland and Sweden to join NATO.. A tent for negotiations has been prepared in Turkey for the Swedes and the Finns..

Then today Erdogan announces that Putin is going to Turkey after the visit by the Swedes and the Finns..

It smells the division of Ukraine and the redistribution of spheres of influence in Europe..

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## The SC

The Russian "Karsar" Forpost UAV..

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526592318882594816


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526044406922498048

M270s or HIMARS May soon be coming to Ukraine

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526644907670052864

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526602396163620865

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526638215217786880

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526645345329074177

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526601646951784448


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526646745278689285

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526603207774031872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526643995140579328

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526651639364567041

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526663507499958272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526667817684291585

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526670472645160961

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526673700694663172

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526600347543814144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526497431805886465

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526686644451127298

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526612761270181888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526554063378210816

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526672586452701190

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## SalarHaqq

Oldman1 said:


> What makes you think its improbable or impossible to do such a thing when terrorist groups or even individuals only have done it before by hijacking aircraft to get their demands through? Only difference was ramming jets into buildings.



...and hijacking not just one but four planes on the very same day, with all taking off inside the USA and alleged hijackers thus having been checked by American airport security; plus some of the alleged hijackers having been monitored before by intelligence services of various NATO regimes and thus having been known to authorities as potentially dangerous persons; plus the fact that pilot licences obtained by alleged hijackers were not for large commercial jet liners and that a complex maneuver was flown by at least one of them prior to hitting the building; that after the attacks, the father of another claimed his son was alive and well; that sites such as the Pentagon are expected to be protected by air defence; that if it were so simple to fool US security agencies, many more attacks using the same modus operandi would have been likely occurred, and long before September 2001.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/how-th...-hanjour-alleged-hijack-pilot-of-aal-77/14290

That's beside other holes in the official version of the event, which are too numerous and too much off-topic to cite.

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## SalarHaqq

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Obviously you have not read the treaty.
> It is noted in the treaty that smoke munition has incendiary effects, but is still not incendiary weapons.
> 
> View attachment 844728
> 
> 
> So the use of smoke munition can never be considered a war crime based on this treaty, regardless if the smoke munition contains White Phosphorus or not.



As explained, the rationale upon which the Protocol establishes a distinction between incendiary weapons on the one hand, and weapons which have incendiary effects but aren't considered actual incendiary weapons on the other, is the question whether said effect is of an incidental nature or not. Examples cited by the treaty (illuminants, tracers, smoke or signalling systems) aren't employed to damage objects nor to kill or injure people. Also, the treaty defines incendiary weapons as arms whose primary purpose is to destroy material or kill personnel.







If white phosphorous is used with the exclusive and precise purpose to destroy objects or to wound and kill humans, rather than to produce smoke, it then fits the criteria constitutive of the treaty's definition of an incendiary weapon, and its incendiary effect is no longer incidental but central. If employed in such a manner, white phosphorous therefore turns into an incendiary weapon.

This is also the common reading of the treaty by legal experts.

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## Vergennes

LMAO


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526668894047551490

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526691858914676736
There is no position or line of defense that can withstand infinitely. As soon as the attacker discovers the features of the defense and its most important lines, locations and fortifications, the firepower and the focused defense will be exhausted, and will be forced to retreat..

From here comes the importance of flexibility by withdrawal and counter-attack to restore what has been lost from lands and lines of defense..

Defense in cities with light and medium weapons without counterattack and without forces outside the city that invest that steadfastness and launch the counterattack to destroy the enemy forces are doomed to defeat in the end..

In Stalingrad, the Sixth German Army was not destroyed by the forces holding out in the city, but by a counter-attack and an encirclement..

In Berlin, despite all the preparations, fortifications and generous quantities of Panzerfaust, the attacking forces, with the most numerous in men, artillery and tanks in the end were able to reduce the resistance in the city to pockets and sectors and destroy it..

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## The SC

Right now, several dozen Azov militants are trying to surrender and are breaking out from the territory of Azovstal. On the spot, large forces of the troops of the DPR and Russia, special groups of the Internal Troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the DPR receive prisoners.
Hungry and betrayed by their command, the Nazis flee the catacombs.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526680405633556484

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526683778868977666

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526453495762755585

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526327388300267526

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## _Nabil_

jhungary said:


> It did not worth 500 billions, it worth what it was worth at the time of siezure. Which if I have to guess, zero.
> 
> Because you don't have the French or whoever to pay you when you confiscated those site, Which mean those recovering site would not cost you any money but at the same time it will not make you any money. You may be able to craw something back from selling whatever it was inside that factory but you wouldn't be able to see it oversea as Russia have no capability to convert foreign currency to rouble, which mean it worth nothing.
> 
> Those site only worth 500 billions or so revenue if they were there to make whatever they are making, if they are not, then only asset worth anything. Which most asset would have been pull if they aren't nailed down before they were confiscated, which mean they only worth a fraction of their original revenue,


Don't worry Chinese will buy anything available

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## Oldman1

SalarHaqq said:


> ...and hijacking not just one but four planes on the very same day, with all taking off inside the USA and alleged hijackers thus having been checked by American airport security; plus some of the alleged hijackers having been monitored before by intelligence services of various NATO regimes and thus having been known to authorities as potentially dangerous persons; plus the fact that pilot licences obtained by alleged hijackers were not for large commercial jet liners and that a complex maneuver was flown by at least one of them prior to hitting the building; that after the attacks, the father of another claimed his son was alive and well; that sites such as the Pentagon are expected to be protected by air defence; that if it were so simple to fool US security agencies, many more attacks using the same modus operandi would have been likely occurred, and long before September 2001.
> 
> http://www.globalresearch.ca/how-th...-hanjour-alleged-hijack-pilot-of-aal-77/14290
> 
> That's beside other holes in the official version of the event, which are too numerous and too much off-topic to cite.


Hijacking 4 planes is not that hard when coordinated. Also you be surprised how flimsy with intelligence sharing by different countries, even many have pass through security checks in pre 9/11. They also have done simulations in flying and have done actually flying for small planes but its enough when hijacking a plane already in flight and change directions. Don't have to worry about landing or taking off. The skies over the Pentagon is not that secured pre 9/11 especially against passenger planes intent to crash. People have hit highly secure buildings like the White House.

Anyways the Saudi Government admitted that some of their citizens were involved. 

This was in 1994.







Wood said:


> This man will not be invited often to the show 😉


He was invited twice already. I would be curious if he gets a third.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526667770481475586

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## SalarHaqq

Oldman1 said:


> Hijacking 4 planes is not that hard when coordinated.



It's hard when some of the alleged perpetrators had been known and watched by security services before.



Oldman1 said:


> Also you be surprised how flimsy with intelligence sharing by different countries, even many have pass through security checks in pre 9/11.



In that case many more such attacks would have happened, those motivated would have seized the opportunity.



Oldman1 said:


> They also have done simulations in flying and have done actually flying for small planes but its enough when hijacking a plane already in flight and change directions. Dont' have to worry about landing or taking off.



They didn't master complex maneuvers.



Oldman1 said:


> The skies over the Pentagon is not that secured pre 9/11 especially against passenger planes intent to crash. People have hit highly secure buildings like the White House.



Suddenly they're asking us to believe that mighty USA was this negligent about securing key facilities. You're free to do so if you choose to accept whatever the regime in Washington will peddle, but some critical thinking never hurt anyone.

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## Oldman1

SalarHaqq said:


> It's hard when some of the alleged perpetrators had been known and watched by security services before.


No its not that hard otherwise they be caught and arrested in the States early on. Even in post 9/11 there have been terrorist attacks. No system is perfect.


SalarHaqq said:


> In that case many more such attacks would have happened, those motivated would have seized the opportunity.


Thats because not many are suicidal or motivated to do such a thing. How many times have you seen people hijacking large commercial planes and crashing them into buildings?


SalarHaqq said:


> They didn't master complex maneuvers.


Turning a plane is not complex maneuvers, they are not doing a fighter maneuvers, you just reaching.


SalarHaqq said:


> Suddenly they're asking us to believe that mighty USA was this negligent about securing key facilities. You're free to do so if you choose to accept whatever the regime in Washington will peddle, but some critical thinking never hurt anyone.


You didn't see the video. There are many gaps in our security. Look at Pearl Harbor, surprise attack and we didn't prevent it.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526704470129881091

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526706880709644290

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> At this stage, it's not going to be picky, they would need everything they can get their hands on to push the Russian out, but in a long term, or even medium to long term and within this war, they need to look at singular platform for their stuff.
> 
> That is why if the Brits and Polish firm really are going to make the 2S22, this is where the Ukrainian want to go, it's a system they familiar with, and they were being made in the safety of Britain and Poland. You don't need no retraining, and it would perfectly fit into the Ukrainian direction.
> 
> They would needed to be a requirement, it is a necessity.


Wonder if the U.S. or some other countries can provide Ukraine a more permanent western SAM system? To protect strategic value sites like Lviv, Kiev, Odessa, etc. from cruise missiles. Patriot systems maybe in secure areas, beyond Russian control territory that it won't fall into enemy hands. Also the U.S. and Europeans should get ahold of thousands of supply trucks or vans whether military or civilian versions with off road capability since logistics is very important obviously the Russians learned it the hard way. Ukrainians will also need to be masters of logistics and learn it.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526585331318984705

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525909891973521409


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526712511793332226


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

RoadAmerica said:


> Seriously? That isn’t even a rally. What happened to all of support “you people” claim Putin has🤷🏿‍♂️


That is why a democracy like the US does not represent thr will of the American people, has never produced a competent leadership and the power these leadership has became absolute. And we know what absolute power do and who the deep state feeds. 

Its new definition is the people by the government, for the government and yo the government.

And who is the real Government of the US? 

The deep state, of course.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526719628633903105

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526721559762722817
The level of Ukrainian lying is unbelievable. Even their president Zelensky is claiming that their military and intelligence are evacuating people at Azovstal. These are forces surrendering to the DNR and Russian forcesm remember. At this rate, the Western media and Ukrainian officials are beyond the point that we can even discuss what they're claiming.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526683778868977666


----------



## SalarHaqq

Oldman1 said:


> No its not that hard otherwise they be caught and arrested in the States early on. Even in post 9/11 there have been terrorist attacks. No system is perfect.



If it's not hard, other such attacks would have occurred. It's not as if there'd be a lack of candidates for such.



Oldman1 said:


> Thats because not many are suicidal or motivated to do such a thing. How many times have you seen people hijacking large commercial planes and crashing them into buildings?



I don't think so, there are more than enough "special" people willing to engage in actions of this kind.



Oldman1 said:


> Turning a plane is not complex maneuvers, they are not doing a fighter maneuvers, you just reaching.



I shared a link where an informed analyst suggests otherwise because it was not only turning the plane.


----------



## Oldman1

SalarHaqq said:


> If it's not hard, other such attacks would have occurred. It's not as if there'd be a lack of candidates for such.


You do realize that there are security measures in place since 9/11 to prevent something like that? 


SalarHaqq said:


> I don't think so, there are more than enough crazy people of all sorts willing to engage in such actions.
> 
> 
> 
> I shared a link where an informed analyst suggests otherwise because it was not only turning the plane.


Give me that link.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526715615590875136


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

The SC said:


> European chess board moves:
> 
> A dynamic equilibrium has been formed at the moment.. Russia is interested in de-escalation.. Italy, France and Germany are procrastinating.. Hungary suspends gas embargo.. there is a week delay concerning the US aid, due to approvals.. Economic changes.. US inflation.. the rise of the ruble and the decline of the dollar and the euro..
> 
> Accordingly a stalemate arose.. and the West has only two scenarios:
> 
> Either introduce new characters on the military board in the form of Poland, Romania and the Baltic states from the West, but this is the path of escalation and expansion into World War III
> Or the path of pacification and new alliances..
> 
> what is the evidence:
> 
> On Friday, Pentagon chief Austin called Shoigu and offered him a ceasefire..
> Putin receives the CSTO and temporarily states that the bloc does not intend to participate in the special military operation..
> 
> On the same evening, the Azov fighters announced the surrender of the wounded and the injured, and the Russian Ministry of Defense, in complete secrecy and without any advertisements, took in ambulances prisoners of war with an unusual passivity by the Azov Ukrainian warriors..
> 
> At the same time:
> 
> The European Union announces that it will allow Russian gas..
> Erdogan unexpectedly announced that he is not ready to vote for Finland and Sweden to join NATO.. A tent for negotiations has been prepared in Turkey for the Swedes and the Finns..
> 
> Then today Erdogan announces that Putin is going to Turkey after the visit by the Swedes and the Finns..
> 
> It smells the division of Ukraine and the redistribution of spheres of influence in Europe..


IMO the crack is now visible and the split is inevitable.

A small group of nation is now trying to dictates its will and policy over the rest and the rest are getting impatience and alarm at a possibility of being drawn into a useless war with Russia by a declining superpower across the Atlantic and her allies.

There are rumors that many EU nations are also unhappy and wanted President of EU Commission Ursula von der Leyen to resign due to her uncompromising political stance. 

It was told that as a former German Defense Minister of Germany, she was unpopular and ineffective and was regarded as hawkish and very anti-Russian. 

Looking at the events that unfold, I believe there may be some substance in the allegatios.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526677213927579653

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## CAPRICORN-88

It seems the Duma in Russia is now passing a law that forbid the exchange of AZOV Neo-NAZI Ukrainian soldiers with Kiev as they are considered as war criminals.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526681797530202115

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## wahhab0202

The SC said:


> Right now, several dozen Azov militants are trying to surrender and are breaking out from the territory of Azovstal. On the spot, large forces of the troops of the DPR and Russia, special groups of the Internal Troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the DPR receive prisoners.
> Hungry and betrayed by their command, the Nazis flee the catacombs.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526680405633556484
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526683778868977666





The SC said:


> Right now, several dozen Azov militants are trying to surrender and are breaking out from the territory of Azovstal. On the spot, large forces of the troops of the DPR and Russia, special groups of the Internal Troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the DPR receive prisoners.
> Hungry and betrayed by their command, the Nazis flee the catacombs.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526680405633556484
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526683778868977666
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526453495762755585


Zelensky on this occasion is equal to Baghdad Bob in steroid.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> IMO the crack is now visible and the split is inevitable.
> 
> A small group of nation is now trying to dictates its will and policy over the rest and the rest are getting impatience and alarm at a possibility of being drawn into a useless war with Russia by a declining superpower across the Atlantic and her allies.
> 
> There are rumors that many EU nations are also unhappy and wanted President of EU Commission Ursula von der Leyen to resign due to her uncompromising political stance.
> 
> It was told that as a former German Defense Minister of Germany, she was unpopular and ineffective and was regarded as hawkish and very anti-Russian.
> 
> Looking at the events that unfold, I believe there may be some substance in the allegatios.




I was wondering what was the motive behind the US Secretary of Defense proposing a ceasefire to the Russian Defense Minister. It seems they noticed that a propaganda can't win a war, and the supposed "unity" in the EU is unrevealing. To simply put it, Russia is not a country that you can easily isolate or defeat militarily.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526717083483922432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526439951801495553

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526659274167951371

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526647848288280577


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526688565849206784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526723340886593537

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526725334301048833

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526704347161165827


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526733962428657664




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526686709378953216

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## CAPRICORN-88

Sweden's plans for NATO membership hit snag as Turkey say NO Sweden's plans for NATO membership hit snag as Turkey says no​
By JOHAN AHLANDER and SIMON JOHNSON

WORLD
Monday, 16 May 2022
3:39 PM MYT






FILE PHOTO: Swedish Defence Minister Peter Hultqvist speaks during a news conference at the military base in Adazi, Latvia April 13, 2022. REUTERS/Ints Kalnins/File Photo

STOCKHOLM (Reuters) -Sweden will formally apply for NATO membership in the next few days, Prime Minister Magdalena Andersson said on Monday, but its accession process, and that of Finland, hit a snag when NATO member Turkey's president said he would not approve either bid.

*Sweden and Finland need each of NATO's 30 members to approve their applications*. The ratification process had been expected to take up to a year, though Turkey's objections have thrown that into doubt.

*At a news conference, Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan said Sweden and Finland should not bother sending delegations to Ankara to persuade Turkey to support for their bids.
"Neither of these countries have a clear, open attitude towards terrorist organisations,"* *Erdogan said. "How can we trust them?"

He called Sweden a "hatchery" for terrorist organisations with terrorists in parliament.
Russia's invasion of Ukraine has shaken up Europe's security architecture and forced Sweden and Finland to choose sides after staying out of the U.S.-led NATO alliance during the Cold War.
Sweden's Social Democrat government, worried the country will be vulnerable while its application is considered, had been hoping for a quick ratification process.



STARPICKS
But Turkey's objections, which NATO leaders initially hoped would not cause a major delay, now look to present a serious obstacle.
A spokesperson for Swedish Foreign Minister Ann Linde declined to comment.
HISTORIC DECISION
The decisions by Finland and Sweden to apply to NATO set the two countries on a path toward ending policies of military non-alignment that had defined their defence strategies since the start of the Cold War.
"We are leaving one era behind us and entering a new one," Andersson told a news conference on Monday.
She said Sweden's application could be submitted in the next couple of days and would be synchronised with Finland.
"NATO will strengthen Sweden, Sweden will strengthen NATO," she said.
The decision to abandon the military non-alignment that has been a central tenet of Swedish national identity for two centuries reflects a sea change in public perception in the Nordic region following Russia's attack on Ukraine.
Andersson said Sweden did not want permanent NATO military bases or nuclear weapons on its territory if its membership was approved.
Russian President Vladimir Putin offered a mild response to the decisions, saying: "As far as expansion goes, including new members Finland and Sweden, Russia has no problems with these states - none."
He did however accuse the United States of using the enlargement in an "aggressive" way to aggravate an already difficult global security situation. He said Russia would respond if the alliance moves weapons or troops forward.
General Micael Byden, commander of the Swedish Armed Forces, told a news conference the decision to apply was right from a military strategic perspective and that defending Sweden, unilaterally or in cooperation with other states, would be easier with Sweden part of NATO.
"I know, based on my conversations and the relations that I have with my counterparts, that Sweden is welcome in NATO. But we are not only welcome - I also know that Sweden as a member makes NATO stronger," Byden said.
Sweden has received assurances of support from the United States, the United Kingdom, Germany and France but not any legally binding guarantees of military aid.
In a joint statement on Monday, Nordic neighbours Denmark, Norway and Iceland also pledged support.
Moscow calls its invasion of Ukraine a "special military operation" to rid the country of fascists, an assertion Kyiv and its allies say is a baseless pretext for an unprovoked war.
(Reporting by Johan Ahlander and Simon Johnson; Additional reporting by Anna Ringstrom and Ali Kucukgocmen in Istanbul and Tassilo Hummel in Paris; Editing by Grant McCool and Howard Goller)*


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526609415842979842

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## PakFactor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526609415842979842



Human intellect has gone down several notches as some American's and non-American's on this thread kind of show it as well.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526700203566301184

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## CAPRICORN-88

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I was wondering what was the motive behind the US Secretary of Defense proposing a ceasefire to the Russian Defense Minister. It seems they noticed that a propaganda can't win a war, and the supposed "unity" in the EU is unrevealing. To simply put it, Russia is not a country that you can easily isolate or defeat militarily.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526717083483922432
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526439951801495553



Try my method instead.

Begin by asking this simple question.

*Why does a winning side desperately seek an immediate ceasefire?*

Didn't Ukraine and their fanboys scream aloud that they are winning this war?

Seriously I don't know but based on territories captured and controlled by the Russian backed DNR and LNR militia, I think I may have an idea.

There are so many fake news and CG, repetitive edited video around, it is confusing a lot of people. I gets confused at time but I am quick with my observations.

Russian sides are not helpful at all as they do not revealed much info until many days later.
And so we relied on some of the stories in their social media. Many of them turned out untrue and exaggerate but most were corroborated by the official sources later. So IMO overall the Russia side is still more reliable.

Try China News Media e.g. CGTN, they are pretty professional and accurate with both side of the stories told as they are. 
No editing nor unwanted biased opinions by the Anchors.

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## jhungary

_Nabil_ said:


> Don't worry Chinese will buy anything available


This is not about Chinese buying anything. Set aside the question whether China will buy anything is a question (The economic prospect in Russia is bad, most credit rating company would not give junk rating to a country, but 3 out of 4 did, literally meaning leaning money to Russia is like burning Money in a burn pit)

The problem is can you convert the asset into making money, the currency policy in Russia is severely restricted, which mean there are chance that Chinese business invested in Business in Russia may not be able to get their money out of Russia, and Chinese Business is not going to spend Rouble in Russia, they want to spend RMB in China. Which would be a direct problem with Chinese company.

Another issue is Chinese company also don't have a good prospect themselves in China, the latest Chinese Q1 2022 GDP growth figure is 4.8, that's almost half the normal post boom 7% growth with the 2022 expected growth slowed to 5.0. it mean the scope of investment is going to be low on itself, let alone foreign investment, let alone to a uncertain Russia,









China’s first-quarter GDP beats expectations to grow 4.8% year-on-year


China's first-quarter GDP grew faster than expected despite the impact of Covid lockdowns in parts of the country in March.




www.cnbc.com





This war is not new, it has been for 82 days, if China are going to pick up Western Business in Russia, we would have heard of it already. The Chinese are not doing great at the moment, in fact, not a single country does. The ability for Chinese to buy anything to help Russia remain to be seen.


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Wonder if the U.S. or some other countries can provide Ukraine a more permanent western SAM system? To protect strategic value sites like Lviv, Kiev, Odessa, etc. from cruise missiles. Patriot systems maybe in secure areas, beyond Russian control territory that it won't fall into enemy hands. Also the U.S. and Europeans should get ahold of thousands of supply trucks or vans whether military or civilian versions with off road capability since logistics is very important obviously the Russians learned it the hard way. Ukrainians will also need to be masters of logistics and learn it.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526585331318984705
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525909891973521409


Training and familisation is a problem.

Patriot is a very complicated system, more or less like how AGEIS system work, it would take an average Ukrainian weeks, if not months of training to be able to use it. 

Another issue is export control, US does not want to lose sensitive information on their system, which is most tech supplied are stripped of essential tech, you can't really strip the essential system on a Patriot....

At this time, supplying just enough weapon is the key, you don't want to overblown it. But at the same time, as I said earlier, US and EU should help Ukraine reach/repair its own Military industry, the Ukraine don't lack of Brilliant design, but lack of production base (Even before this war) and funding limited those option, for example that 2S22 prototype was made before Zelenskyy was elected president, and still only 1 known prototype exist, that's because Ukrainian does not have enough money to get it off the ground. If Ukraine uses US and EU/UK aide money to make those weapon, that would get more bang for bucks than the western hand me down.

About logistic, Russia still can't hit anywhere in Ukraine at any time, Logistic is not really an issue here, but I think Ukrainian would need to focus on Civilian-Military effort on Logistic. Maybe they will do it in their 4th round of TDF intake. Giving the first round is trained to Defend, second round is trained as replacement of loss combat power, 3rd round is train on counter offensive, probably 4 th round are trained to supplies and logistic? I don't know.


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## CAPRICORN-88

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526659274167951371
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526647848288280577


Some would says the US tried to destroyed the world largest telecommunication company Huawei but ironically this war has helped Huawei instead. Its profit has surged to a new record. 

Yes. *There is a story of how a Russian patriot dump his German Mercedes and bought China Great Wall "Havel" SUV as a replacement.*

To his surprise, the Chinese replacement has performed so well, is so good that he vouched never to buy another German Mercedes ever again. 

That is how the alternative branding are getting a new lease of life in Russia and many countries.

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## CAPRICORN-88

*The latest statistics shown that not all is well for the US and allies as the war of attrition is beginning to bite them.*

CNA May 18 2022

TOKYO: Japan's economy fell for the first time in two quarters in the first three months of the year as COVID-19 curbs hit the service sector and the *Ukraine war and surging commodity prices *created new headaches for consumers and businesses.

The decline presents a challenge to Prime Minister Fumio Kishida's drive to achieve growth and wealth distribution under his "new capitalism" agenda, stoking fears of stagflation - a mix of tepid growth and rising inflation.

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## wahhab0202

Viet said:


> Judging Putin’s calm reaction to Sweden, Finland bid to join the NATO, he appears to accept the fate. He probably is frustrated Russia can’t afford three front wars.


Or may be he is planning something? Or he knew that it is not gonna happen? Not easy know what is in one's mind, especially when those who are equipped with an absolute power in his hand.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

Russia responds to EU’s offer on Ukraine's grain​May 18, 2022 RT

Europe’s initiative only serves to benefit itself, Russian State Duma chairman claims

Russia has slammed the EU’s proposal to empty out Ukraine’s grain stores, stating that such a move would only serve its member nations while leaving Ukrainians without any reserves.

The response came after EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell stated on Monday that Ukraine must be assisted in producing and exporting grains and wheat, adding that the EU will help the country empty out its grain stores to free up space for the next crop. 

UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres has also asked the US to ease sanctions on the export of potash fertilizer from Russia and Belarus in exchange for getting Russia to allow the shipment of wheat from Ukraine.

However, *these proposals only serve to benefit the West, *Russian State Duma chairman Vyacheslav Volodin has claimed.

_“*Residents of Ukraine will find themselves without grain reserves, and, as for the future* *harvest*, firstly, they still have to live to see it, and secondly, they do not have diesel fuel and gasoline for sowing,”_ Volodin said.

_“Only European countries would benefit from such a cynical proposal*. The desire to get potash fertilizers from Russia* (they do not have their own) is again about themselves.”_

The politician went on to note that Russia has always stood for mutually beneficial cooperation and especially for its development, but warned that new sanctions would _“not end up doing anything good for Europe,”_ adding that, aside from energy problems, the world will face food shortages by the end of the year, and that these problems will not be pinned on Russia.

_“Brussels supported Washington’s sanctions policy. In return, they received a price increase in the name of Biden,”_ Volodin concluded.

Last month, *Russia’s Defense Ministry claimed that Kiev was regularly sending grain, corn, oil crops, and farm animals to Romania in exchange for foreign weapons and ammunition, despite the country suffering a shortage of food and agricultural products.*

_“All of this is happening with an acute shortage of food for their own population, as well as the absence of grain crops in most regions of Ukraine for the spring sowing campaign,”_ said Colonel General Mikhail Mizintsev, the head of Russia’s National Defense Management Center.

The ongoing conflict in Ukraine has prompted fears of global grain shortages as wheat prices have soared to multiple-year highs since March. Both Russia and Ukraine are major wheat suppliers, accounting for some 30% of global exports.

Russia attacked the neighboring state in late February, following Ukraine’s failure to implement the terms of the Minsk agreements, first signed in 2014, and Moscow’s eventual recognition of the Donbass republics of Donetsk and Lugansk. The German- and French-brokered Minsk Protocol was designed to give the breakaway regions special status within the Ukrainian state.

The Kremlin has since demanded that Ukraine officially declare itself a neutral country that will never join the US-led NATO military bloc. Kiev insists the Russian offensive was completely unprovoked and has denied claims it was planning to retake the two republics by force.

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## A.P. Richelieu

SalarHaqq said:


> As explained, the rationale upon which the Protocol establishes a distinction between incendiary weapons on the one hand, and weapons which have incendiary effects but aren't considered actual incendiary weapons on the other, is the question whether said effect is of an incidental nature or not. Examples cited by the treaty (illuminants, tracers, smoke or signalling systems) aren't employed to damage objects nor to kill or injure people. Also, the treaty defines incendiary weapons as arms whose primary purpose is to destroy material or kill personnel.
> 
> View attachment 845001
> 
> 
> If white phosphorous is used with the exclusive and precise purpose to destroy objects or to wound and kill humans, rather than to produce smoke, it then fits the criteria constitutive of the treaty's definition of an incendiary weapon, and its incendiary effect is no longer incidental but central. If employed in such a manner, white phosphorous therefore turns into an incendiary weapon.
> 
> This is also the common reading of the treaty by legal experts.


No, almost all smoke grenades generate smoke using White Phosporus and they have incendiary effects. Israel however developed smoke grenades without WP after 2014.
Legal Experts do not consider smoke grenades with White Phosphorus to be Incendiary Weapons.
This clearly says that White Phosphorus is not an Incendiary Weapon.








The Jus in Bello of White Phosphorus: Getting the Law Correct


Focusing on the weapon, and not how it is being used, muddies the law and facts surrounding the circumstances in which a war crime may have occurred.




www.lawfareblog.com




An example of an Incendiary Weapon is Napalm.

It is not a question of reading, it is EXPLICITLY stated that they are not Incendiary Weapons, regardless of how they are used.


The treaty on Incendiary Weapons is intended to stop this.






This type of damage is not generated by smoke munitions.


----------



## CAPRICORN-88

*All is not well in EU as well. At this rate EU may split up. Will there be an Italexit?*

May 17, 2022

The price of imported energy in Italy rose in March by 72.5% on a yearly basis, the National Institute of Statistics (ISTAT) reported on Tuesday. Data showed that the increase in energy prices accelerated by 5.6% compared to February.

*Italy, which relies heavily on Russia for its energy needs, has seen its growth outlook deteriorate sharply since the introduction of Western sanctions against Moscow.*

The economy contracted by 0.2% in the first quarter from the previous three months. The government expects much lower growth this year amid rising inflation and supply bottlenecks.

Earlier this month, the country unveiled a hefty package of measures aimed at shielding firms and families from surging energy costs. It also includes measures aimed at overcoming Italy’s reliance on Russian gas by mid-2024 and extending the life of four coal fired power plants for up to two years and accelerating the roll-out of renewable power sources.

*ISTAT data also showed that Italian exports to Russia decreased by 50.9% compared to March 2021.*


----------



## SalarHaqq

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Legal Experts do not consider smoke grenades with White Phosphorus to be Incendiary Weapons.



If used to destroy / kill rather than to generate smoke, they do.

White phosphorous is the archetypal dual use munition. It was not specifically designed for one single type of use. Historically, it has been deployed extensively in the anti-personnel role, e.g. WW1. As such, it potentially falls under the category of an incendiary weapon as per the Protocol.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> It is not a question of reading, it is EXPLICITLY stated that they are not Incendiary Weapons, regardless of how they are used.



There is no mention no white phosphorous in the Protocol. How they are used is not irrelevant, the treaty does not state otherwise.

Here's an example of an expert legal opinion, it is very clear as to the fact that if white phosphorous is used as a weapon i.e. with the intent of destroying or injuring / killing, then legal implications will be different:














White phosphorus munitions - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## mazeto

Well well. With time it doesn't look so bad for Russia anymore:
1. Russian economy held up rather well. Conversely, EU economy didn't. The Russians are already used to privations from past sanctions, the EU isn't.
2. Russian military losses seem manageable now. The Ukrainian depends on donated military equipment, the Russian produce themselves.
It is only a matter of time the EU part will shackle the military part( NATO). The cracks are already showing as members are either backing out( Switzerland funds) or diluting the sanctions using legal language to mask it. Because the NATO are mostly " democracy " and sooner or later their public will punish the rulers for the economic turmoil.
This episode must also be very encouraging for the Chinese. Whereas in the beginning the Chinese became totally silent, they are starting to find their mojo again. Because they saw that the NATO, 5 Eyes, EU or whatever will lose an economic war that got stalemated with a lesser power like Russia.
Meanwhile i am wondering why Russia did not cover the skies of Ukraine with armed drones and decimate their artillery , tanks and logistics the way Azerbaijan did to Armenia??? No need to duke it out on the ground..

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526725627599958016

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526728212612620290

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## A.P. Richelieu

SalarHaqq said:


> If used to destroy / kill rather than to generate smoke, they do.
> 
> White phosphorous is the archetypal dual use munition. It was not specifically designed for one single type of use. Historically, it has been deployed extensively in the anti-personnel role, e.g. WW1. As such, it falls potentially falls under the category of an incendiary weapon as per the Protocol.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no mention no white phosphorous in the Protocol. How they are used is not irrelevant, the treaty does not state otherwise.
> 
> Here's an example of an expert legal opinion, it is very clear as to the fact that if white phosphorous is used as a weapon i.e. with the intent of destroying or injuring / killing, then the legal implication will be different:
> 
> View attachment 845039
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> White phosphorus munitions - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


Noone is poisoned by Smoke Grenades and the Wikipedia link states that it is not an Incendiary Weapon.
Your sources does not support your view,


----------



## Viet

wahhab0202 said:


> Or may be he is planning something? Or he knew that it is not gonna happen? Not easy know what is in one's mind, especially when those who are equipped with an absolute power in his hand.


There is a change of tones. They way Putin speaks. Lavrov speaks similar calm way. In contrast Erdogan is very aggressive in tone.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526728911542943744

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## Viet

mazeto said:


> Well well. With time it doesn't look so bad for Russia anymore:
> 1. Russian economy held up rather well. Conversely, EU economy didn't. The Russians are already used to privations from past sanctions, the EU isn't.
> 2. Russian military losses seem manageable now. The Ukrainian depends on donated military equipment, the Russian produce themselves.
> It is only a matter of time the EU part will shackle the military part( NATO). The cracks are already showing as members are either backing out( Switzerland funds) or diluting the sanctions using legal language to mask it. Because the NATO are mostly " democracy " and sooner or later their public will punish the rulers for the economic turmoil.
> This episode must also be very encouraging for the Chinese. Whereas in the beginning the Chinese became totally silent, they are starting to find their mojo again. Because they saw that the NATO, 5 Eyes, EU or whatever will lose an economic war that got stalemated with a lesser power like Russia.
> Meanwhile i am wondering why Russia did not cover the skies of Ukraine with armed drones and decimate their artillery , tanks and logistics the way Azerbaijan did to Armenia??? No need to duke it out on the ground..


Look at 2 posts above. Russia imports from Italy crashes by 50 percent and you say Russia economy is going well? You are delusional. The western sanctions alone can’t explain the collapse.


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## DF41

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526592318882594816


I love the reply with the kitty 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526510555003068419


----------



## mazeto

Viet said:


> Look at 2 posts above. Russia imports from Italy crashes by 50 percent and you say Russia economy is going well? You are delusional. The western sanctions alone can’t explain the collapse.


Chinas imports from Lithuania " crashed " 90% so China must be the loser?? 
You are the delusional wannabe White boy. You will always remain a gook for them

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## Viet

mazeto said:


> Chinas imports from Lithuania " crashed " 90% so China must be the loser??
> You are the delusional wannabe White boy. You will always remain a gook for them


Nonsense
A functioning economy needs imports and exports. If imports decrease then something not going well according to plan. One explanation is Russians run out of money.
If China overall imports collapse by 50 percent than will be a big news. Lithuania imports is made of how much? 0.001 percent?

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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526482242863869953


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526743211355799552


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526672436208476161


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526697272620228609

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526653991333003271

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## Apollon

mazeto said:


> Well well. With time it doesn't look so bad for Russia anymore:
> 1. Russian economy held up rather well. Conversely, EU economy didn't. The Russians are already used to privations from past sanctions, the EU isn't.
> 2. Russian military losses seem manageable now. The Ukrainian depends on donated military equipment, the Russian produce themselves.
> It is only a matter of time the EU part will shackle the military part( NATO). The cracks are already showing as members are either backing out( Switzerland funds) or diluting the sanctions using legal language to mask it. Because the NATO are mostly " democracy " and sooner or later their public will punish the rulers for the economic turmoil.
> This episode must also be very encouraging for the Chinese. Whereas in the beginning the Chinese became totally silent, they are starting to find their mojo again. Because they saw that the NATO, 5 Eyes, EU or whatever will lose an economic war that got stalemated with a lesser power like Russia.
> Meanwhile i am wondering why Russia did not cover the skies of Ukraine with armed drones and decimate their artillery , tanks and logistics the way Azerbaijan did to Armenia??? No need to duke it out on the ground..



That type of thinking led Putin into a trap.

Democracy always wins over autocratic regimes.

And btw Russia has a 20% decline of economy within one quarter. Thats annihilation of economy and reversal of 30 years progress. 


Germany had a major election just this sundsy and the most hawkish antirussian parties won massive gains,

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## nope

Broccoli said:


> Amazing how Russians keep shooting down Ukrainian fighters despite the fact that according to their own propaganda they've already destroyed Ukrainian air force twice.


after they shot down a whole squadron of tb2 another one miraculously shows up lmao


----------



## Soldier35

Footage of the combat operation of the Orlan-10 UAV was shown by the Russian Defense Ministry. The Orlan-10 UAV began to be delivered to the troops in 2010 and by now is the most massive UAV of the Russian army used in Ukraine. The Orlan-10 has a mass of 14 kg and is capable of carrying up to 4 high-explosive shells. In various configurations, UAVs can conduct surveillance in the optical and infrared range. Orlan‑10 is capable of automatically detecting the positions of switched-on GSM phones, VHF communication stations, operating radars.






The Russian army in the Zaporozhye direction stopped an attempt to counterattack the Ukrainian armed forces. An attempt to attack Russian units by the forces of two Ukrainian mechanized battalions on tanks and infantry fighting vehicles was made near the village of Vishnevoye, Zaporozhye region. The enemy was spotted in time, UAVs and Russian artillery strikes were inflicted on parts of the Ukrainian army. After that, Russian tanks, BPM and infantry units, supported by artillery, destroyed the retreating equipment of Ukraine. According to the results of the battle, 26 Ukrainian tanks, 12 infantry fighting vehicles and about 100 soldiers were destroyed.






The work of Russian 120 mm mortar crews in Ukraine

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## SalarHaqq

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Noone is poisoned by Smoke Grenades and the Wikipedia link states that it is not an Incendiary Weapon.
> Your sources does not support your view,



My source, a legal expert, states explicitly that if used as a weapon, its legal status changes accordingly. Only its incendiary properties make it a potential weapon (and in effect, during WW1 it saw extensive employment as an incendiary weapon intended to kill and injure personnel). And that's the common take by jurists.

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## CAPRICORN-88

US Set to Block Russian Debt Payments, Raising Odds of Default​
Treasury Department won’t extend carve-out that ends May 25
Expiring waiver gave Moscow leeway to pay coupons in dollars
By
Saleha Mohsin and
Sydney Maki
+Follow
May 18, 2022, 12:50 AM GMT+8Updated onMay 18, 2022, 2:32 AM GMT+8

The Biden administration is poised to fully block Russia’s ability to pay US bondholders after a deadline expires next week, a move that could bring Moscow closer to the brink of default.
The Treasury Department’s Office of Foreign Assets Control is expected to let a temporary exemption lapse once it expires on May 25, according to people familiar with the matter. The waiver, issued shortly after the US levied sanctions on Russia over its invasion of Ukraine in February, has given Moscow room to pay coupons, helping it avert default on its government debt.

_Ultimately, any impact on Russia’s finances from payments to creditors is dwarfed by the money the country is earning every week on exports of oil, gas and other commodities.

“It is an interesting one,” said Matthew Vogel, a London-based portfolio manager and head of sovereign research at FIM Partners. *The move would leave Russia as “a debtor seemingly desperate to make payments, but not allowed to do so.”*

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...russian-debt-payments-raising-odds-of-default_


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## A.P. Richelieu

SalarHaqq said:


> My source, a legal expert, states explicitly that if used as a weapon, its legal status changes accordingly. Only its incendiary properties make it a potential weapon (and in effect, during WW1 it saw extensive employment as an incendiary weapon intended to kill and injure personnel). And that's the common take by jurists.


You source say that if White Phosphorus is used for its toxilogical effect (what toxilogical effect?) it is considered a chemical weapon because of how the treaty on chemical weapon is written.

The treaty on incendiary weapons is not written this way.

The treaty on incendiary weapons says that smoke munitions are not incendiary weapons.

You are welcome to produce a single case where someone has been poisoned (and not burned) by a shell with White Phosphorus.


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## gambit

SalarHaqq said:


> I shared a link where an informed analyst suggests otherwise because it was not only turning the plane.


Am USAF, F-111 Cold War then F-16 Desert Storm. But before the USAF, I learned how to fly when I was in high school, in a Cessna 152, and this was in the early 1980s. I grew up in Hawaii and flew over Pearl Harbor.

I do not want to deviate from the main topic here, but I do not care who is your 'informed analyst'. Given the differences of flight training of when I was learning how to fly versus the technology of Sept 11, 2001, I have no problems declaring that the maneuvers to make *ANY* airliner fly into a WTC tower is well within the skills of any student pilot that passed ground school.

In fact...









Watch: Passenger who landed plane speaks about harrowing experience - CNN Video


In an interview with NBC's "Today," Darren Harrison describes how he managed to land a plane with zero flight experience after the aircraft's pilot became incapacitated.




www.cnn.com





In an interview with NBC's "Today," Darren Harrison describes how *he managed to land a plane with zero flight experience *after the aircraft's pilot became incapacitated.​
That does not mean anyone can fly in an emergency situation like above. But flying airliners into the WTC were not emergency situations. The issue is settled like gravity.

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## CAPRICORN-88

mazeto said:


> Chinas imports from Lithuania " crashed " 90% so China must be the loser??
> You are the delusional wannabe White boy. You will always remain a gook for them


  

You are right on the dot.

That is the problem with Western journalism today.

Look at theIr reports about *Azovstal Steelwork.*

They reported it using the word "*evacuated*".

*Evacuated???? *

Those AZOV neo-NAZI soldiers have *SURRENDERED. *

They are now officially *Prisoners of War *and held in a place, a Prisoner Camp controlled by Russia troops. They are not being evacuated to another country or place.

*Russia intends to charge them for war crimes as Nazi. *

That is why in replying a question, I raised this question:

Who is *LOSING*?

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## Paul2

There was a russian push attempt on all directions in Donbas region. No breakthrough


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Paul2 said:


> There was a russian push attempt on all directions in Donbas region. No breakthrough




No breakthrough?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526838735865790464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526843885812690945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526802007700520967

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526809742202621952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526836719873470464

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526809405802651648

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526663564949340162



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526894600253751298

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## Hassan Al-Somal

*********

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> @F-22Raptor, @Vergennes, @Apollon and other Pro-Ukraine posters are posting lately. It is very possible that they were in Azovstal and surrendered to the Russian forces. This is perhaps why we don't see their posts any more.



Yeh sure " very possible. "

I would say as possible as the rest of your claims.

~

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526904213263065089


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> @F-22Raptor, @Vergennes, @Apollon and other Pro-Ukraine posters are posting lately. It is very possible that they were in Azovstal and surrendered to the Russian forces. This is perhaps why we don't see their posts any more.



Your really desperate aren’t you?

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## Apollon

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> @F-22Raptor, @Vergennes, @Apollon and other Pro-Ukraine posters are posting lately. It is very possible that they were in Azovstal and surrendered to the Russian forces. This is perhaps why we don't see their posts any more.



What? 😅

Is the delirium out if food shortage kicking in? 


😅

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## Apollon

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526500532592193536


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## RoadAmerica

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Some would says the US tried to destroyed the world largest telecommunication company Huawei but ironically this war has helped Huawei instead. Its profit has surged to a new record.
> 
> Yes. *There is a story of how a Russian patriot dump his German Mercedes and bought China Great Wall "Havel" SUV as a replacement.*
> 
> To his surprise, the Chinese replacement has performed so well, is so good that he vouched never to buy another German Mercedes ever again.
> 
> That is how the alternative branding are getting a new lease of life in Russia and many countries.


One guy trades in his Mercedes’ and now you say China can replace anything. As an owner of 3 benz’s…..come on man



mazeto said:


> Well well. With time it doesn't look so bad for Russia anymore:
> 1. Russian economy held up rather well. Conversely, EU economy didn't. The Russians are already used to privations from past sanctions, the EU isn't.
> 2. Russian military losses seem manageable now. The Ukrainian depends on donated military equipment, the Russian produce themselves.
> It is only a matter of time the EU part will shackle the military part( NATO). The cracks are already showing as members are either backing out( Switzerland funds) or diluting the sanctions using legal language to mask it. Because the NATO are mostly " democracy " and sooner or later their public will punish the rulers for the economic turmoil.
> This episode must also be very encouraging for the Chinese. Whereas in the beginning the Chinese became totally silent, they are starting to find their mojo again. Because they saw that the NATO, 5 Eyes, EU or whatever will lose an economic war that got stalemated with a lesser power like Russia.
> Meanwhile i am wondering why Russia did not cover the skies of Ukraine with armed drones and decimate their artillery , tanks and logistics the way Azerbaijan did to Armenia??? No need to duke it out on the ground..


One Russian economy isn’t holding up well, do some research before posting rubbish please.

Two, they don’t have the tech or capacity to “cover the skies” with drones.

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## Broccoli

Daily reminder that Russian economy is same size as Italys and doing worse. Russians are pumping huge amounts of money into this useless war and they still have to keep up society running under sanctions what cost a lot of money.

They are currently pumping money so economy doesn't crash but they cannot do that forever


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526918760573067264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526914234260545537

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526914807982702593


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526891771870978048

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526912198567530496

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## jamahir

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> @F-22Raptor, @Vergennes, @Apollon and other Pro-Ukraine posters are posting lately. It is very possible that they were in Azovstal and surrendered to the Russian forces. This is perhaps why we don't see their posts any more.



Very possible or that they are too ashamed to post anything.  



Vergennes said:


> Sorry dude,I,unlike some of you who masturbate on Russia every hours of each day,I do work and have a family,can't be here 24/7.



Right, you certainly didn't update on "Russian defeats" every fifteen minutes on this thread before the fall of Azovstal.  And yes, your "work" is quite important to the future of humanity.

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## Meengla

Even NY Times is saying that, with the fall of Azovstal, Russia has about 500 miles of land connection / land grab from Crimea to Donbas and to Russia and that it will be very difficult for Ukraine to break that strategic connection as Russians are fortifying their positions in the southeast. Mariupol is indeed a strategic gain for Russia--enough to stop the war and negotiate. And they *should*. Enough of the blood shed. The world was barely coming out of the Covid pandemic trauma and now this damn war.
PS. I don't think 20,000 Russian soldiers were tied down by Azovstal as some claim; it was probably a small force around Azovstal. The destruction of Mariupol is on Zelensky's hands; Mariupol was going to fall anyway but Zelensky got carried away in some Churchillesque mindset. Such a tragedy for so many people of such a beautiful city.

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## Apollon

Meengla said:


> Even NY Times is saying that, with the fall of Azovstal, Russia has about 500 miles of land connection / land grab from Crimea to Donbas and to Russia and that it will be very difficult for Ukraine to break that strategic connection as Russians are fortifying their positions in the southeast. Mariupol is indeed a strategic gain for Russia--enough to stop the war and negotiate. And they *should*. Enough of the blood shed. The world was barely coming out of the Covid pandemic trauma and now this damn war.
> PS. I don't think 20,000 Russian soldiers were tied down by Azovstal as some claim; it was probably a small force around Azovstal. The destruction of Mariupol is on Zelensky's hands; Mariupol was going to fall anyway but Zelensky got carried away in some Churchillesque mindset. Such a tragedy for so many people of such a beautiful city.



Why should we stop? As EU said, this will be decided on the battlefield. Its not in any point positive for Ukraine or EU to make any concessions. This will go on until russia collapses in Ukraine. The goal is to cripple russia to the point that it poses no danger. 



P.s. the bridge to crimea is a good target.

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## Viet

interesting
Russia airforce as great inventor.
Putting hand granate into a beer glass, set the initial explosion, and throw it away from a surveillance drone.
Effective rate: almost zero
Meanwhile Ukraine army receives new modern fire and forget missiles from UK.


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## MeFishToo

Meengla said:


> Even NY Times is saying that, with the fall of Azovstal, Russia has about 500 miles of land connection / land grab from Crimea to Donbas and to Russia and that it will be very difficult for Ukraine to break that strategic connection as Russians are fortifying their positions in the southeast. Mariupol is indeed a strategic gain for Russia--enough to stop the war and negotiate. And they *should*. Enough of the blood shed. The world was barely coming out of the Covid pandemic trauma and now this damn war.
> PS. I don't think 20,000 Russian soldiers were tied down by Azovstal as some claim; it was probably a small force around Azovstal. The destruction of Mariupol is on Zelensky's hands; Mariupol was going to fall anyway but Zelensky got carried away in some Churchillesque mindset. Such a tragedy for so many people of such a beautiful city.


Russia already had the land connection for weeks. The surrender of the defenders is just a propaganda victory for the russians as of now. Nothing really changes. As you said, the russians havent been tied down in Mariupul for a long time.
Some information for the pro russian posters all high on this Mariupul surrender: 800 of the 2.500 defenders were from the Azov regiment the rest are elements from the ukrainian 36, 53, 54 and the national gard brigade. Take it or leave it. Im not going to provide any sources - the nay sayers wont trust them anyway.

If you’ve had enough of the blood shed, may I surgest you ask Putin to withdraw his invading forces? In all honesty, its ridiculous blaming Ukraine defending itself.


----------



## Meengla

Apollon said:


> Why should we stop? As EU said, this will be decided on the battlefield. Its not in any point positive for Ukraine or EU to make any concessions. This will go on until russia collapses in Ukraine. The goal is to cripple russia to the point that it poses no danger.
> 
> 
> 
> P.s. the bridge to crimea is a good target.



I just want this damn war to stop! And if this is the 'consolation victory' for Putin then so be it to declare. I believe Russia is the new 'Sick Man of Europe' and *after Putin* will organically join Europe--at least the western part of Russia would.
No point hastening the inevitable and costing the world so much.


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

Swiss to sign deal to buy F-35 fighters before referendum​








Swiss to sign deal to buy F-35 fighters before referendum


The Swiss government will sign a contract by the end of March to buy 36 Lockheed Martin F-35A Lightning II fighter jets, it said on May 18, 2022, pressing ahead without waiting for a referendum on …




nypost.com





Greece seeks to join F-35 program as it lobbies against Turkey F-16 sale​








Greece seeks to join F-35 program as it lobbies against Turkey F-16 sale


Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis visited the White House and Congress this week to make to make his country’s case for acquiring the F-35 stealth fighter jet while lobbying against Turkey’s attempts to upgrade and acquire its aging fleet of F-16 aircraft.




news.yahoo.com


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526912198567530496




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526655717893087232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526608518228451328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524737308607623169

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524334271590195200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526805399210545153

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## Apollon

Meengla said:


> I just want this damn war to stop! And if this is the 'consolation victory' for Putin then so be it to declare. I believe Russia is the new 'Sick Man of Europe' and *after Putin* will organically join Europe--at least the western part of Russia would.
> No point hastening the inevitable and costing the world so much.



Its obvious that EU will keep up sanctions at full extent and putin is burned for any negotiations. So how you think putin will sell this to his minions, that he conquered burned out ruins that russia has to rebuild. At same time lost Ukraine forever (it will be frozen conflict for eternity with extreme border militarisation) and has to tell them that the russian economy is ruined forever since no sanctions will be lifted. 


I dont see peace possible as long putin is in charge.


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526683134707867653

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526497602346401792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524992189142540288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526068232989335552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526139962856456193

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## jamahir

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526655717893087232
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526608518228451328
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524737308607623169
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524334271590195200
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526805399210545153



A gathering of terrorists, genociders and war criminals. Russia must bomb these filths out.

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## kingQamaR

jamahir said:


> A gathering of terrorists, genociders and war criminals. Russia must bomb these filths out.




Putin fails to understand NATO expands by countries 'applying' for membership as opposed to the old USSR expanding by taking other countries over with no choice on their part


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> A gathering of terrorists, genociders and war criminals. Russia must bomb these filths out.



Come and try.


----------



## jamahir

kingQamaR said:


> Putin fails to understand NATO expands by countries 'applying' for membership as opposed to the old USSR expanding by taking other countries over with no choice on their part



Go tell that to the Polish Communists who would definitely wouldn't have wanted the Polish government to be applying membership in NATO.



Apollon said:


> Come and try.



You should go back to Greece because Russia might send a Poseidon nuclear torpedo to Western Europe.

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## Foinikas

"Heroes"

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Go tell that to the Polish Communists who would definitely wouldn't have wanted the Polish government to be applying membership in NATO.
> 
> 
> 
> You should go back to Greece because Russia might send a Poseidon nuclear torpedo to Western Europe.



No it wont. Its regime is a regime of cowards. And btw like so many things of russia it wont work anyways. Nuclear bombs in the sea are absolute ineffective. Even the largest nuke would not generate any significant wave. 


I prefer to stay here and enjoy the cooking going on in russian tanks.



Foinikas said:


> "Heroes"
> 
> View attachment 845180



Ah look who is back, putins 5th column. 

My great grandfather hanged russias 5th column members on trees in our civil war.

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Ah look who is back, putins 5th column.
> 
> My great grandfather hanged russias 5th column members on trees in our civil war.



There comes the confession. When the German Nazis were occupying Greece and the patriotic, progressive Greeks were fighting against them your great grandfather was a member of the Security Battalions who were working with the German Nazis. I have told you before that you would have been a part of that had you been there then but now you declare that your family member was indeed a part of that and you are proud of it.

@Foinikas



Apollon said:


> No it wont. Its regime is a regime of cowards. And btw like so many things of russia it wont work anyways. Nuclear bombs in the sea are absolute ineffective. Even the largest nuke would not generate any significant wave.



Regardless, life in Western Europe will become uncomfortable with all that radiation brought by waves and other phenomenon.

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## kingQamaR

jamahir said:


> Go tell that to the Polish Communists who would definitely wouldn't have wanted the Polish government to be applying membership in NATO.
> 
> 
> 
> You should go back to Greece because Russia might send a Poseidon nuclear torpedo to Western Europe.



Has it? What in particular makes you (the OP) think that? That Poland has ‘fared better’ than Czechia, or Estonia, or Slovenia: this is by no means obvious


----------



## Viet

jamahir said:


> Go tell that to the Polish Communists who would definitely wouldn't have wanted the Polish government to be applying membership in NATO.
> 
> 
> 
> You should go back to Greece because Russia might send a Poseidon nuclear torpedo to Western Europe.


Polish communists fear Russian communists like Viet communists fear chinese communists.


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> There comes the confession. When the German Nazis were occupying Greece and the patriotic, progressive Greeks were fighting against them your great grandfather was a member of the Security Battalions who were working with the German Nazis. I have told you before that you would have been a part of that had you been there then but now you declare that your family member was indeed a part of that and you are proud of it.
> 
> @Foinikas



Wrong buddy. That happened some years after WW II. In Greek villages they hanged russian 5th column in trees. It was between 1946 to 1949 where russias 5th column tried to take control over Greece.


You suck in history.

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## jamahir

kingQamaR said:


> Has it? What in particular makes you (the OP) think that? That Poland has ‘fared better’ than Czechia, or Estonia, or Slovenia: this is by no means obvious



I don't understand what you are saying.



Viet said:


> Polish communists fear Russian communists like Viet communists fear chinese communists.



How ? And what Viet *Communists* and what Chinese *Communists* ?








Apollon said:


> Wrong buddy. That happened some years after WW II. In Greek villages they hanged russian 5th column in trees. It was between 1946 to 1949 where russias 5th column tried to take control over Greece.
> 
> 
> You suck in history.



I guessed later that you would be pointing to later events. So transfer what I said a few years ahead but I would still be true ideologically.

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> I don't understand what you are saying.
> 
> 
> 
> How ? And what Viet *Communists* and what Chinese *Communists* ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guessed later that you would be pointing to later events. So transfer what I said a few years ahead but I would still be true ideologically.



Sure. I would do same, as would most Greeks. There is little sympathy for traitors in our culture.

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## kingQamaR

jamahir said:


> I don't understand what you are saying.
> 
> 
> 
> How ? And what Viet *Communists* and what Chinese *Communists* ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guessed later that you would be pointing to later events. So transfer what I said a few years ahead but I would still be true ideologically.



Once the polish regime collapsed in 1989, it was completely wiped away and very little remains of a system almost no Poles actually ever wanted


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> The Greek Communists would say you are the traitors  :



Article of 2014. What you bring up next? Persian wars ? 😅

Reactions: Negative Rating Negative Rating:
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## jamahir

kingQamaR said:


> Once the polish regime collapsed in 1989, it was completely wiped away and very little remains of a system almost no Poles actually ever wanted



"Completely wiped away" but Communists remain in Poland. They not being popular among the large number of dolts who support the Capitalist regimes in Poland does not mean anything. In India there are 500 million Hindutvadis at least with their election-participating wing, BJP ( which rules India now ), having a membership of 180 million which is the biggest membership of any political party in the world. Should these massive numbers be used to say that the Hindutvad ideology is right ?



Apollon said:


> Article of 2014. What you bring up next? Persian wars ? 😅



Year doesn't matter. It is just eight years ago when the Ukrainian Nazi invasion and murders in the eastern region started. What matters is that the crimes your great grandfather did does not discourage the progressives in Greece and they continue to agitate. Do you think they vanished into space after doing that action in 2014 ?

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> "Completely wiped away" but Communists remain in Poland. They not being popular among the large number of dolts who support the Capitalist regimes in Poland does not mean anything. In India there are 500 million Hindutvadis at least with their election-participating wing, BJP ( which rules India now ), having a membership of 180 million which is the biggest membership of any political party in the world. Should these massive numbers be used to say that the Hindutvadi ideology is right ?
> 
> 
> 
> Year doesn't matter. It is just eight years ago when the Ukrainian Nazi invasion and murders in the easter region started. What matters is that the crimes your great grandfather did does not discourage the progressives in Greece and they continue to agitate. Do you think they vanished into space after doing that action in 2014 ?



We have lots of trees in Greece.


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> We have lots of trees in Greece.



Spoken like a true fascist. It's disappointing to hear this from you after we corresponded nicely in other threads.


----------



## dbc

@LeGenD please thread ban persistent off topic trolls Thanks

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> My great grandfather hanged russias 5th column members on trees in our civil war.


KKE wasn't receiving any help from Moscow during the civil war. Stalin kept his word and didn't support the guerillas here. That's why most of their help came from Yugoslavia,Albania and Bulgaria.



jamahir said:


> Spoken like a true fascist. It's disappointing to hear this from you after we corresponded nicely in other threads.


His stupid comments aside,communists were brutal animals during the occupation and the civil war. Their crimes were so many and so evil,they could only be compared with today's jihadists.

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## JX-1

Apollon said:


> Putin wants an eurasian empire and claimed the long term goal is to take all of Europe. Buying oil from Russia is like UK buying products from Hitler.
> 
> 
> This isnt about Ukraine. Its just the first victim. We must destroy russia in Ukraine or have to fight them on our lands later


You've watched too many WWII and Cold War vidoes. Calm down.

Putin invaded Ukraine to take it out of NATO's sphere of influence. He is not insane and does not want to start a war with NATO countries.

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## jamahir

dbc said:


> @LeGenD please thread ban persistent off topic trolls Thanks



Dbc, you are supposed to be a think tank so think. Apollon started about seeing Russians fry in tanks and then the conversation proceeded naturally from there. Who are you to decide that I am a troll ? You are a NATO troll yourself. Why didn't you -ve rate @kingQamaR because he too posted to me about Poland ? I wish I could -ve rate you.

@LeGenD.

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## SalarHaqq

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You source say that if White Phosphorus is used for its toxilogical effect (what toxilogical effect?) it is considered a chemical weapon because of how the treaty on chemical weapon is written.



And because of the fact that white phosphorous since its inception has been a multi-use item, not restricted to producing smoke but also meant as a means to burn people to death, as extensively witnessed during WW1.

Zelensky's rants against Russian forces and their alleged deployment of white phosphorous munitions were baseless, but the reason he attempted to push this narrative is because under certain circumstances, white phosphorous attacks constitute war crimes.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> The treaty on incendiary weapons says that smoke munitions are not incendiary weapons.



White phosphorous is not exclusively a generator of smoke, just like knives were not only created to slice bread.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> You are welcome to produce a single case where someone has been poisoned (and not burned) by a shell with White Phosphorus.



Better yet, I can produce numerous cases of white phosphorous being fired upon military personnel with the express intention of killing or incapacitating them, consistent with the definition of an incendiary weapon according to Article 1.1 of the treaty.

_____



gambit said:


> I do not want to deviate from the main topic here, but I do not care who is your 'informed analyst'. Given the differences of flight training of when I was learning how to fly versus the technology of Sept 11, 2001, I have no problems declaring that the maneuvers to make *ANY* airliner fly into a WTC tower is well within the skills of any student pilot that passed ground school.
> 
> In fact...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watch: Passenger who landed plane speaks about harrowing experience - CNN Video
> 
> 
> In an interview with NBC's "Today," Darren Harrison describes how he managed to land a plane with zero flight experience after the aircraft's pilot became incapacitated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In an interview with NBC's "Today," Darren Harrison describes how *he managed to land a plane with zero flight experience *after the aircraft's pilot became incapacitated.​
> That does not mean anyone can fly in an emergency situation like above. But flying airliners into the WTC were not emergency situations. The issue is settled like gravity.



You're preaching to the converted though. Because the source I cited is referencing a whole spate of aviation experts as well as experienced pilots (quoted from both mainstream and dissident media) who were actually flying the same machines allegedly slammed into highrise buildings by some total novices who had never been trained to man these types of aircraft (one of whom is said to have been a highly mediocre student), nor to execute the complex maneuvers that were performed by at least one of the planes.

Some of these testimonies can be found here:

http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/pilots.html

It is noteworthy that none of the pilots under the above link are harboring any hostility against the USA, in fact they're considered as patriotic Americans so their views aren't informed by political bias.

And with regards to the World Trade Center attacks, users who value critical analysis over state-sanctioned narratives may reinform themselves as to the massive inconsistencies of the official version here:





__





How the FBI and 9/11 Commission Suppressed Key Evidence about Hani Hanjour, alleged hijack pilot of AAL 77 - Global Research


The evidence was crucial because it undermined the official explanation that Hani Hanjour crashed American Airlines Flight 77 into the Pentagon at high speed after executing an extremely difficult top gun maneuver. But to understand how all of this played out, let us review the case in bite-size...




www.globalresearch.ca

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## jamal18

Apollon said:


> Come and try.


They have.

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## ckf

83 days of inflation, domestic US consumers stock crashed hard today, Dow drops 1200 pts, all consumers staple stocks drop double digits. Biden got a lot of explaning to do while sending $40 Billion for this proxy war stoking inflation around the world. 8 Trillion USD in market cap is wiped out in US alone post ukraine War. Who says Russia is the only country to suffer economically? The whole world is suffering.









Dow Jones drops almost 1,200 points amid crash in retail stocks; Nasdaq, S&P 500 fall 4%+


The stock market suffered massive selling Wednesday as investors dump consumer names following disappointing numbers from Target.




seekingalpha.com








__





Time to Gauge 80-Day Inflation Shock Around the World: Eco Week


(Bloomberg) — Sign up for the New Economy Daily newsletter, follow us @economics and subscribe to our podcast.




financialpost.com












European shares deepen fall on inflation worries


European shares slipped on Wednesday led by technology stocks as worries about inflation and monetary policy tightening dampened optimism around China's economic recovery, while shares of UniCredit and Commerzbank rose.




www.reuters.com

Reactions: Like Like:
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1 | Sad Sad:
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## A.P. Richelieu

SalarHaqq said:


> And because of the fact that white phosphorous since its inception has been a multi-use item, not restricted to producing smoke but also meant as a means to burn people to death, as extensively witnessed during WW1.
> 
> Zelensky's rants against Russian forces and their alleged used of white phosphorous were baseless, but the reason he attempted to push this narrative is because under certain circumstances, white phosphorous attacks constitute war crimes.
> 
> 
> 
> White phosphorous is not exclusively a generator of smoke, just like knives were not only created to slice bread.
> 
> 
> 
> Better yet, I can produce numerous cases of white phosphorous being fired upon military personnel with the express intention of killing or incapacitating them, consistent with the definition of an incendiary weapon according to Article 1.1 of the treaty.
> 
> _____


Unlike the treaty on Chemical Weapons, the treaty on Incendiary Weapons does not care how a weapon is used.


----------



## SalarHaqq

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Unlike the treaty on Chemical Weapons, the treaty on Incendiary Weapons does not care how a weapon is used.



The treaty on incendiary weapons distinguishes the latter from other munitions according to what their primary purpose and effect is. With white phosphorous (unlike other munitions), purpose and impact vary according to the intent with which it is fired (and thus, towards what or whom it is fired).

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Sorry dude,I,unlike some of you who masturbate on Russia every hours of each day,I do work and have a family,can't be here 24/7.




You sure have been here far longer than anybody here. It is just that Russian advancing gradually and the fall of Azovstal have taken a toll on you.

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## A.P. Richelieu

SalarHaqq said:


> The treaty on incendiary weapons distinguishes the latter from other munitions according to what their primary purpose and effect is. With white phosphorous (unlike other munitions), purpose and impact vary according to the intent with which it is fired (and thus, towards what or whom it is fired).


A White Phosporus Smoke Shell is NEVER an Incendiary Weapon.
That is explicitly stated in the treaty.
The treaty does not even mention White Phosphorus.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526725779102789632

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## RescueRanger

Russia unveils its latest more agile and cost effective tactical troop transport for its ongoing de-nazification operation = illegal war in Ukraine.

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## Wood




----------



## Foinikas

jamal18 said:


> They have.


You mean back then? Or...?


----------



## jamal18

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526725779102789632


Notice how the controlled media is saying that there is an 'evacuation' at Azostal. And the troops are being 'evacuated' to Russian occupied territory.

Too difficult to say 'surrender'. The media is controlled, and therefore unreliable.

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## Primus

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 845231
> 
> 
> Russia unveils its latest more agile and cost effective tactical troop transport for its ongoing de-nazification operation = illegal war in Ukraine.


This reliant robin was sick of all the other cars making fun of him for his tri wheel setup (making him turnover onto his side when turning). He decided to take matters into his own hands.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## PakFactor

ckf said:


> 83 days of inflation, domestic US consumers stock crashed hard today, Dow drops 1200 pts, all consumers staple stocks drop double digits. Biden got a lot of explanation to do while sending $40 Billion for this proxy war stoking inflation around the world. Who says Russia is the only country to suffer economically, the whole world is suffering.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dow Jones drops almost 1,200 points amid crash in retail stocks; Nasdaq, S&P 500 fall 4%+
> 
> 
> The stock market suffered massive selling Wednesday as investors dump consumer names following disappointing numbers from Target.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> seekingalpha.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to Gauge 80-Day Inflation Shock Around the World: Eco Week
> 
> 
> (Bloomberg) — Sign up for the New Economy Daily newsletter, follow us @economics and subscribe to our podcast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> financialpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> European shares deepen fall on inflation worries
> 
> 
> European shares slipped on Wednesday led by technology stocks as worries about inflation and monetary policy tightening dampened optimism around China's economic recovery, while shares of UniCredit and Commerzbank rose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com



In this time period of human history economics are linked together like never before --
Any conflict will effect all countries in some sort of way. But when you have major powers moving pieces it shakes the ground.

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## RescueRanger

Huffal said:


> This reliant robin was sick of all the other cars making fun of him for his tri wheel setup (making him turnover onto his side when turning). He decided to take matters into his own hands.


I used to love the old rivalry Mr Bean had with the driver of that Robin Reliant 😂

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## Primus

RescueRanger said:


> I used to love the old rivalry Mr Bean had with the driver of that Robin Reliant 😂


Lol yea. Good times

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## RescueRanger

Huffal said:


> Lol yea. Good times


Classic British Television.


----------



## Wood

Russian forces pushed to outskirts of Kherson city?!

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527008268689743875

*Canada's Foreign Minister: The food crisis threatens a global "hunger" that we will not be able to bear*

@AlArabiya_Brk



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526276299454660608

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1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527054604067917827

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526992230229200896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526969993442754561


----------



## The SC

US Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen:
It is not legal for the United States to seize official Russian assets​US laws do not allow the transfer of frozen Russian assets to the benefit of Ukraine

https://www.businessinsider.in/poli...raine-reconstruction/articleshow/91647347.cms



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526948680447586305

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526930299145404418

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## 925boy

The SC said:


> US Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen:
> It is not legal for the United States to seize official Russian assets​US laws do not allow the transfer of frozen Russian assets to the benefit of Ukraine
> 
> https://www.businessinsider.in/poli...raine-reconstruction/articleshow/91647347.cms
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526948680447586305


bandit temptations!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526961749097730048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526954476749324294

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526977991582130177
Severodonetsk







https://twitter.com/Levi_godman/status/1526894635716689920




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527025569442963456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527025835294736385

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## ckf

Wood said:


>


The only problem is EU member countries will not agree to most of these plans, because you are essentially building new infrastructure/higher taxes to buy more expensive energy and taking on much higher debt. Clean energy/LNG is not free, its actually very expensive, and by neglecting existing infrastructure, EU is actually becoming big emitter. EU already has way too much debt, and funding for most of these ambitious projects will be delayed way into the future.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526322391508570112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526324546273411074

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526326204416008195

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526327364032012290

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526328527771025411


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526878044505481218

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526986524432158724



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527033109488644097

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527009557469331463

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## TruthSeeker

Institute for the Study of War


Russian occupation authorities announced plans to destroy the Azovstal Steel Plant and turn Mariupol into a resort city, depriving Russia of some of the most important economic benefits it hoped to reap by taking the city in the first place. Head of the




www.understandingwar.org



RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MAY 18​May 18, 2022 - Press ISW


Download the PDF

*Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, May 18
Kateryna Stepanenko and Karolina Hird
May 18, 6:15 pm ET

Russian occupation authorities announced plans to destroy the Azovstal Steel Plant and turn Mariupol into a resort city, depriving Russia of some of the most important economic benefits it hoped to reap by taking the city in the first place. *Head of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) Denis Pushilin stated that DNR authorities are planning to level Azovstal after completing its capture.[1] Azovstal was a major element of Mariupol’s economy before the war because of its unique function as a full-cycle metallurgical complex, the 10,000 jobs associated with production at the plant, the billions of dollars of foreign exchange earnings and taxes it generated, and its production output of 7,000 tons of steel, 6 million tons of iron, and 4.5 million tons of rolled metal, according to the Mariupol City Council.[2] Pushilin stated that the DNR intends to rebuild Mariupol to be a “resort city,” while admitting that 60% of the structures in Mariupol have been destroyed to the point where they cannot be rebuilt.[3] The announced plan to turn Mariupol into a center of tourism and leisure following the complete destruction of a major center of economic activity in Mariupol, is indicative of the damage that Russian troops have inflicted on themselves through the destruction of Mariupol. Russia does not need another resort town on the Black Sea. It does need the kind of hard currency that a plant like Azovstal had generated. This announcement epitomizes the kind of Pyrrhic victories Russian forces have won in Ukraine, to the extent that they have won victories at all.

*The Kremlin may hope to offset the loss of revenues from Azovstal and other destroyed infrastructure in Ukraine by profiting from the Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant that is forces have seized. *Russian Deputy Prime Minister Marat Khusnullin announced that he will allocate maximum integration assistance for Zaporizhia Oblast to work in a “friendly Russian family” during his visit to Melitopol on May 18.[4] Khusnullin added that the Zaporihia Nuclear Power Plant will exclusively work for Russia and will sell electricity to Ukraine. This statement is a clear Russian recognition that there will be an independent Ukraine at the end of this war and that Russia seeks to restore its energy leverage over Ukraine and possibly the West more broadly that has been reduced by sanctions and efforts to reduce reliance on Russian energy. It also reinforces the urgency of helping Ukraine regain control of Enerhodar City and the rest of its occupied territory to forestall this renewed economic thralldom. ISW previously reported that Russian forces started digging trenches and blocking highways to Enerhodar City.[5] The Zaporizhia Oblast Military Administration reported that Russian occupation authorities continued to prepare for a referendum in Enerhodar City on May 18.[6]

*Ukrainian officials reported protests in Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DNR and LNR) over forced mobilizations on May 16-17. *The Ukrainian Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported that relatives of the forcefully mobilized LNR servicemen demanded an immediate return of their family members from combat in Luhansk City and Rovenky approximately 50 kilometers west of Russian border.*[7]* The GUR noted that perceptions of war and resentment of mobilization in LNR worsened because of the high casualties Russian forces have suffered and the fact that Russian authorities are reportedly evading payments to the families of wounded and killed servicemen. Mariupol Mayor’s Advisor Petro Andryushenko had previously reported that a protest against mobilization had occurred in Donetsk City on May 16.[8]

*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces are continuing to inflict air and artillery strikes on the Azovstal Steel Plant, indicating that a remnant of Ukrainian defense is still in the plant despite evacuations over the last few days.*
*Russian occupying authorities are reportedly planning to level the Azovstal Steel Plant after completing its capture, which directly undermines the large strategic economic importance of capturing the plant.*
*Russian forces continued to prepare for an assault on Severodonetsk and intensified operations around Lyman.*
*Russian forces continued to prioritize holding positions around the Russian border to prevent further Ukrainian advances north of Kharkiv City and will likely continue to do so at the expense of deploying additional reinforcements to other axes of advance.*
*Russian troops focused on maintaining their positions on the Southern Axis and on conducting rocket, missile, and artillery strikes along the frontline.*


*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.
ISW has updated its assessment of the four primary efforts Russian forces are engaged in at this time. We have stopped coverage of supporting effort 4, “Sumy and northeastern Ukraine,” because it is no longer an active effort.*

Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate main effort- Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
Supporting effort 1—Mariupol;
Supporting effort 2—Kharkiv City;
Supporting effort 3—Southern axis.
*Main effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces did not advance south of Izyum on May 18. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces used drones, rockets, and artillery units to support an unsuccessful offensive on Dovhenke - a settlement approximately 30 kilometers south of Izyum.[9] Russian forces are likely aiming to secure access to the Izyum-Slovyansk highway east of the settlement to resume the offensive on Donbas. A satellite image from May 12 released yesterday showed a sunken Russian pontoon bridge approximately seven kilometers southwest of Izyum, which had been previously used by Russian forces to transport heavy artillery in April.[10] Ukrainian forces could have damaged the pontoon bridge given that they had previously destroyed two bridges in the same location on March 27.[11] Damage to the bridge may be hindering Russian drives on Barvinkove southwest of Izyum, although Russian possession of the major highways in the area might be sufficient to support their current level of operations. Russian forces intensified offensive operations in the area of Lyman, likely to gain foothold west of the Siverskyi Donets river.[12]
Russian forces intensified shelling and conducted unsuccessful offensive operations near Popasna in preparation for the Battle of Severodonetsk.[13] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces attempted to advance southwest and north of Popasna, but could not seize access to highways to Bahmut and Lysychansk.[14] Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai said that Russian forces are increasing aviation support for ground troops in Luhansk Oblast.[15]
Russian forces continued a line of unsuccessful ground assaults in an effort to advance to Slovyansk and Zaporizhia City.[16] Russian forces and artillery were the most active in the settlements east of Avdiivka, but did not secure any territorial gains.[17] Russian military Telegram channels criticized the functioning of the Russian reconnaissance-strike complex (used to identify and attack targets), on the grounds that its centralized approval system hinders Russian artillery from striking Ukrainian positions in time because of delays in securing approval to fire from higher command echelons.[18]


*Supporting Effort #1—Mariupol (Russian objective: Capture Mariupol and reduce the Ukrainian defenders)*
Russian forces continued to conduct air and artillery strikes against the remaining Ukrainian defenders in the Azovstal Steel Plant on May 18.[19] The Russian Ministry of Defense stated that 694 Ukrainian servicemen surrendered to Russian forces between May 17 to 18 and claimed that nearly 1,000 had surrendered in all since evacuations began.[20] Leader of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) Denis Pushilin claimed that all the high-ranking Ukrainian commanders have not yet left the plant. ISW cannot independently confirm that Ukrainian servicemen remain in Azovstal, but continued Russian air and artillery strikes make it highly likely that there are still some Ukrainian troops in the plant.[21]
Russian authorities continued occupation activities in Mariupol. DNR head Pushilin held a press tour in Mariupol and stated that the DNR intends to fully restore Mariupol and turn it into a “resort town.”[22] The Mariupol City Council notably stated that DNR authorities are planning to destroy the Azovstal Plant.[23] Occupation authorities also hosted a “high delegation” from Chechnya and promised close cooperation with the Chechen Republic, possibly in recognition of the role Chechen forces played in seizing the city, since there is no other obvious reason why Mariupol should cooperate closely with Chechnya.[24] Port authorities continued to prepare the Port of Mariupol for grain, metal, and clay exports under the supervision of a former head of the Russian Yeisk seaport, indicating administrative focus on continued integration into the Russian economy of such portions of the Mariupol economy as Russia has not yet completely destroyed or announced its intention of destroying.[25]


*Supporting Effort #2—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces continued efforts to prevent a further northward advance of the on-going Ukrainian counteroffensive around Kharkiv City on May 18. The Ukrainian General Staff stated that Ukrainian troops took control of Dementievka, about 10 kilometers south of Russian border, and that Russian forces are fighting in Ternova, 5 kilometers south of the Russian border.[26] Russian forces additionally shelled the northern part of Kharkiv City, indicating that they still have control of the highway to Belgorod in a manner than allows them to inflict artillery damage on the northern suburbs of Kharkiv despite pressure generated by the Ukrainian counteroffensive.[27] Russian troops north of Kharkiv City will likely continue to prioritize holding positions in Ukraine away from the international border at the expense of deploying additional reinforcements to Donbas.


*Supporting Effort #3—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces did not conduct any ground assaults in southern Ukraine and carried out shelling and reconnaissance of Ukrainian positions.[28] The Zaporizhia Oblast Military Administration noted that Russian forces began reinforcing troops for an offensive from the southeast on Orikhiv—a settlement approximately 80 kilometers from Zaporizhia City.[29] The Ukrainian Southern Operational Command reported that Russian forces are fortifying in depth in Kherson and Mykolaiv Oblasts.[30] Ukrainian forces reportedly destroyed two Russian ammunition depots in northern Kherson Oblast on May 17, including one near Chornobaivka just north of Kherson City, according to the Ukrainian Southern Operational Command.[31] Russian forces launched missile strikes on Odesa and Mykolaiv Oblasts on May 18.[32] The situation in Transnistria did not change.[33]
https://understandingwar.org/sites/...and Mykolaiv Battle Map Draft May 18,2022.png

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526844447203508224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526854747109658624


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## Wood

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/usjm76

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527020722954153985
Regarding the situation on the Izyum front, the most intense point of the war at the moment. Units and subunits of the heroic (this is not sarcasm) 20th army took the village of Dolgenkoye and are regrouping, preparing for further offensive operations.

The assault on the village was difficult and bloody. The forests in the immediate vicinity of this settlement were well fortified, and our artillery and special forces had to work very hard, smoking the AFU from the greenery. Now in Sherwood Forest there are a lot of corpses of soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which, most likely, like their unfortunate predecessors, will be buried in a common pit, Ukraine does not take the corpses of its soldiers, no matter how much we offer them.

The neighbors on the left continue their offensive along the left bank of the Seversky Donets River, the neighbors on the right approached the settlement of Kurulka, which will soon face the fate of Dolgenkoe. After the capture of Kurulka, the Slavic-Kramatorsk enemy grouping will be cut off from the supply routes for fuel and ammunition. Delivery will be possible only by forest and country roads, on single vehicles.

Russian troops are moving slowly but surely. They try to minimize personnel losses and try to destroy the enemy with artillery, missiles and aircraft. In general, our offensive in this direction is similar to the movement of a road roller, which, although not fast, but reliably rolls the asphalt.

The equipment is put forward only after the sappers have carried out engineering reconnaissance of the area, since the mines of the Armed Forces of Ukraine did not regret and generously scattered them on the paths of a possible offensive by Russian troops. Russian artillery has been conducting an extremely successful counter-battery battle for several days, which forced quite sensible Ukrainian artillery to work from extreme distances, changing positions after each volley.

In general, everything remains as before. The Russian army is grinding the enemy, the losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are growing exponentially, and Ukraine is trying to shut the front with fresh reinforcements, throwing them into battle directly from the wheels, which certainly further increases the number of dead and wounded in the ranks of the Ukrainian army.

https://****/vysokygovorit/7981

Telegram

Старше Эдды

Касательно ситуации на Изюмском фронте, самой напряжённой на данный момент точке войны. Части и подразделения героической ( это не сарказм) 20 армии взяли село Долгенькое и проводят перегруппировку, готовясь к дальнейшим наступательным действиям.

Штурм…

****/levigodman/2187

4.2K viewsLevi, May 18 at 16:17

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526906128168325123

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526983659001094144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526985561906548736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526917115168563200

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527027932404883456

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526963492917432321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526964800973991937

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526896835662594048

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## kingQamaR

By using satellites, NATO is probably able to keep track of most of the things the Russian troops are doing and then relaying the information to the Ukrainian commanders. The Russians seem slow to realize that they don't have many hiding places

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527077996191956995

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526869419376386050

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527092111195226114

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## Sharma Ji



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## Wood




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## Viet

The ball is rolling.
The EU is finalizing the 300 billion euros plan to get rid of Russia fossil fuels.
Pending on approval in addition Ukraine will receive 9 billion euros emergency assistance.
.









Russland-Ukraine-Ticker von Mittwoch: Türkei blockiert Nato-Beitrittsgespräche mit Finnland und Schweden | MDR.DE


Die Türkei hat in der Nato den Beginn der Beitrittsgespräche mit Finnland und Schweden zunächst blockiert. Die beiden skandinavischen Länder hatten zuvor ihre Anträge auf Nato-Mitgliedschaft zuvor eingereicht.



www.mdr.de


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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Spoken like a true fascist. It's disappointing to hear this from you after we corresponded nicely in other threads.



Im nice but i cant stand traitors. I believe its same in your culture.


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## Apollon

In Melitopol are more and more russian officers killed by partisan attacks. Its exactly going on what experts predicted. Yesterday entire armored train was blown up there. 









High-ranking Russian officers reportedly killed by partisans in occupied Melitopol


PARTISANS have killed high-ranking officers of Putin's army in Melitopol, Zaporizhzhia, the southeastern region of Ukraine, currently under Russian




euroweeklynews.com





NATO trained Ukraine in partisan warfare and no russian military staff is save there.


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## Soldier35

Video of the heroic battle of the Russian T-80BVM tank in Ukraine in the Kharkov region. On the video, you can see that the Russian T-80 tank was damaged, but it continues to fight, the Russian tank is attacked from all sides by Ukrainian soldiers with grenade launchers, but it does not leave the battlefield.






American M777 howitzers recently received by Ukraine from the United States have already come under attack by Russian troops. Russian kamikaze drones "KUB-UAV" were used for the strike. After the drone strike, the artillery battery of Ukraine went into the forest, after which they were hit by Russian artillery. The video is cropped due to poor quality






The work of Russian combat crews of 152-mm self-propelled howitzers "Msta-S" and "Acacia-M" in Ukraine, the fire of Russian artillery is corrected by the drone "Orlan-10".

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## RescueRanger

Wood said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/usjm76


You must have gone out of your way to find that and post it here. It’s frigging Reddit- the platform where people believe Trump is the second coming of Jesus. 

Why even give it importance?

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## DF41

jamahir said:


> Very possible or that they are too ashamed to post anything.




🤔

Hopefully they evacuated themselves to place where sun and moon not shine on and cockroaches roam freely

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## wahhab0202

kingQamaR said:


> By using satellites, NATO is probably able to keep track of most of the things the Russian troops are doing and then relaying the information to the Ukrainian commanders. The Russians seem slow to realize that they don't have many hiding places


The same can be said about Russian's intelligent capability

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## Apollon

wahhab0202 said:


> The same can be said about Russian's intelligent capability



I doubt russia has functional satellite network. Explain how even most heavy equipment can be moved from west to eastern front and russia does nothing? There are two options...


1. Russia lacks Satellite images


2. Russia lacks power to intervene

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## DF41

The SC said:


> US Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen:
> It is not legal for the United States to seize official Russian assets​US laws do not allow the transfer of frozen Russian assets to the benefit of Ukraine
> 
> https://www.businessinsider.in/poli...raine-reconstruction/articleshow/91647347.cms




That look to me USA in preparation for a* HUGE HUGE HUGE backdown* in realisation USA cannot win Russia
And now trying to save face and damage control and come to terms with Russia




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526972308883222528

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## wahhab0202

Apollon said:


> I doubt russia has functional satellite network. Explain how even most heavy equipment can be moved from west to eastern front and russia does nothing? There are two options...
> 
> 
> 1. Russia lacks Satellite images
> 
> 
> 2. Russia lacks power to intervene


They blasted quite a few arms supply from west to Ukraina and also some military training centers. Satellite intelligent must have a significant role here as ground intelligent would be very hard to make.

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## ckf

Apollon said:


> I doubt russia has functional satellite network. Explain how even most heavy equipment can be moved from west to eastern front and russia does nothing? There are two options...
> 
> 
> 1. Russia lacks Satellite images
> 
> 
> 2. Russia lacks power to intervene


Are u stupid? Russia/Roscosmos built and owns half of the International Space Station and launched the first astronaut in space. They obviously have satellite reconnaissance. War is much more complicated in the battle field. Ukraine is a big country and weapon can come through many border areas, and attacks against heavily defensed weapon convoy not as easy as it sounds.

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## jamahir

jamal18 said:


> Notice how the controlled media is saying that there is an 'evacuation' at Azostal. And the troops are being 'evacuated' to Russian occupied territory.
> 
> Too difficult to say 'surrender'. The media is controlled, and therefore unreliable.



Indeed. Yesterday's newspaper at my house carried a Reuters article about the Azovstal surrender with a picture of the Ukrainian Nazis being frisked by the Russians to be on the safe side. Reuters being NATO-aligned quoted the war criminal, Zelensky, as saying about those surrendered Nazis "We want our heroes back".  And then the article towards the end the article said something like "According to the Russians the surrendered have Nazi elements". "According to the Russians" as if the whole world doesn't know the Azov people are Nazis.  How can these people lie so efforlessly and with a straight face ?

Zelensky should be secretly arrested, taken to Moscow and be tried for war crimes and genocide. Take along his Western military advisors too.

@Vergennes @Messerschmitt @F-22Raptor Wood Apollon @mmr @Viet The SC

@Foinikas @Hassan Al-Somal 



The SC said:


> Canada's Foreign Minister: The food crisis threatens a global "hunger" that we will not be able to bear



Don't worry, India's PM Modi declared grandly, as he always does, on April 13 that India can feed the world. it's another matter that exactly a month later, on May 13, his government banned exports of wheat because of wheat shortage within India.  



Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526906128168325123



My commiserations and salute to him.



Apollon said:


> Im nice but i cant stand traitors. I believe its same in your culture.



You may not know that in India since 2014 it is the fascists who rule the country. They are the real traitors, at least 500 million of them and they fervently hate Communists, and Muslims and Christians, and are terrorizing them including with lynchings, jailings and house demolitions using bulldozers.

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## Apollon

wahhab0202 said:


> They blasted quite a few arms supply from west to Ukraina and also some military training centers. Satellite intelligent must have a significant role here as ground intelligent would be very hard to make.



You have prove for that? Nope. Just russian words. What counts is that even heavy artillery reaches front in huge numbers.



ckf said:


> Are u stupid? Russia/Roscosmos built and owns half of the International Space Station and launched the first astronaut in space. They obviously have satellite reconnaissance. War is much more complicated in the battle field. Ukraine is a big country and weapon can come through many border areas, and attacks against heavily defensed weapon convoy not as easy as it sounds.



Russian space program is in shambles and breaking down since years. Remember the rocket with Z Satellite they launched in april? 


Did not reach orbit and reenters atmopshere.



jamahir said:


> Indeed. Yesterday's newspaper at my house carried a Reuters article about the Azovstal surrender with a picture of the Ukrainian Nazis being frisked by the Russians to be on the safe side. Reuters being NATO-aligned quoted the war criminal, Zelensky, as saying about those surrendered Nazis "We want our heroes back".  And then the article towards the end the article said something like "According to the Russians the surrendered have Nazi elements". "According to the Russians" as if the whole world doesn't know the Azov people are Nazis.  How can these people lie so efforlessly and with a straight face ?
> 
> Zelensky should be secretly arrested, taken to Moscow and be tried for war crimes and genocide. Take along his Western military advisors too.
> 
> @Vergennes @Messerschmitt @F-22Raptor Wood Apollon @mmr @Viet The SC
> 
> @Foinikas @Hassan Al-Somal
> 
> 
> 
> Don't worry, India's PM Modi declared grandly, as he always does, on April 13 that India can feed the world. it's another matter that exactly a month later, on May 13, his government banned exports of wheat because of wheat shortage within India.
> 
> 
> 
> My commiserations and salute to him.
> 
> 
> 
> You may not know that in India since 2014 it is the fascists who rule the country. They are the real traitors, at least 500 million of them and they fervently hate Communists, and Muslims and Christians, and are terrorizing them including with lynchings, jailings and house demolitions using bulldozers.



I dont care about india. 


What i do care about is crushing any russian Influenza here in Europe

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## Viet

jamahir said:


> Indeed. Yesterday's newspaper at my house carried a Reuters article about the Azovstal surrender with a picture of the Ukrainian Nazis being frisked by the Russians to be on the safe side. Reuters being NATO-aligned quoted the war criminal, Zelensky, as saying about those surrendered Nazis "We want our heroes back".  And then the article towards the end the article said something like "According to the Russians the surrendered have Nazi elements". "According to the Russians" as if the whole world doesn't know the Azov people are Nazis.  How can these people lie so efforlessly and with a straight face ?
> 
> Zelensky should be secretly arrested, taken to Moscow and be tried for war crimes and genocide. Take along his Western military advisors too.
> 
> @Vergennes @Messerschmitt @F-22Raptor Wood Apollon @mmr @Viet The SC
> 
> @Foinikas @Hassan Al-Somal
> 
> 
> 
> Don't worry, India's PM Modi declared grandly, as he always does, on April 13 that India can feed the world. it's another matter that exactly a month later, on May 13, his government banned exports of wheat because of wheat shortage within India.
> 
> 
> 
> My commiserations and salute to him.
> 
> 
> 
> You may not know that in India since 2014 it is the fascists who rule the country. They are the real traitors, at least 500 million of them and they fervently hate Communists, and Muslims and Christians, and are terrorizing them including with lynchings, jailings and house demolitions using bulldozers.


Keep up the shit. In reality the numbers of Nazi in Russia is multiple times bigger than Nazi in Europe combined. That’s why Europeans are erecting walls everywhere. Now Sweden, Finland.


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## jamahir

Viet said:


> Keep up the shit. In reality the numbers of Nazi in Russia is multiple times bigger than Nazi in Europe combined. That’s why Europeans are erecting walls everywhere. Now Sweden, Finland.



The Nazis in Russia whatever their exaggerated number you provide don't rule the country but in Ukraine they do.  The second-largest party in Russia is not any Nazi party but the Communist.

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> The Nazis in Russia whatever their exaggerated number you provide don't rule the country but in Ukraine they do.  The second-largest party in Russia is not any Nazi party but the Communist.



Putin is a nazi or did you find any difference to hitlers speeches.


You know i really wonder what you think will happen. Do you seriously believe any normal relations between Europe and Russia are possible as long Putin is leader in Russia?

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## Viet

jamahir said:


> The Nazis in Russia whatever their exaggerated number you provide don't rule the country but in Ukraine they do.  The second-largest party in Russia is not any Nazi party but the Communist.


Commie nazi. There is no independent political parties in Russia. There is only one party: Putin.
He is the chief of state, government, parliament, party, army, media, judicial system, and everything else. He will rule Russia until WW3, and if he survives WW 4.

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## kingQamaR

wahhab0202 said:


> The same can be said about Russian's intelligent capability



The US has numerous intel sources including spy planes, spy boats, submarines, satellites, spies, NSA hackers, all the NATO countries and many more friends and allies

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Putin is a nazi or did you find any difference to hitlers speeches.
> 
> 
> You know i really wonder what you think will happen. Do you seriously believe any normal relations between Europe and Russia are possible as long Putin is leader in Russia?





Viet said:


> Commie nazi. There is no independent political parties in Russia. There is only one party: Putin.
> He is the chief of state, government, parliament, party, army, media, judicial system, and everything else. He will rule Russia until WW3, and if he survives WW 4.



Sad to see someone so brainwashed as you. Yes, neither I nor the Russian Communist movement support Putin entirely but he talks simple and straight and we support him in regards to the Ukraine operation.

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## Paul2

Apollon said:


> I doubt russia has functional satellite network. Explain how even most heavy equipment can be moved from west to eastern front and russia does nothing? There are two options...
> 
> 
> 1. Russia lacks Satellite images
> 
> 
> 2. Russia lacks power to intervene



Russia has recon, and signals satellites, just very few of them.


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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Sad to see someone so brainwashed as you. Yes, neither I nor the Russian Communist movement support Putin entirely but he talks simple and straight and we support him in regards to the Ukraine operation.



I support him too. He is best that could have happened to NATO.


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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> I support him too. He is best that could have happened to NATO.



He could turn out to be the worst.


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## Foinikas

jamahir said:


> Zelensky should be secretly arrested, taken to Moscow and be tried for war crimes and genocide. Take along his Western military advisors too.


I thought that's what they wanted in the beginning but they couldn't get him?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527136629860798464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526059064031059968

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> He could turn out to be the worst.



He ruins russia, made NATO more powerful than ever and permanent ripped Ukraine away from russia. Dude even as hardcore putinist you should accept that this is not going as planned. 


I think worst for russia is the loss of all relations to Europe. The infrastructure build up in decades, all thrown away. Cooperation in so many fields thrown away. 


You know the Emeritage in St Petersburg? Worldfamous museum..their director wrote sad letter expressing his deep regret how evrything is falling apart.

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## jamahir

Foinikas said:


> I thought that's what they wanted in the beginning but they couldn't get him?



I see. That must have been one of the plans after the Russians took over that airport outside Kiev. And now maybe he is in a bunker always unless there's some NATO leader visiting and then he comes under the protection of that leader's security cover too.



Apollon said:


> He ruins russia, made NATO more powerful than ever and permanent ripped Ukraine away from russia. Dude even as hardcore putinist you should accept that this is not going as planned.
> 
> 
> I think worst for russia is the loss of all relations to Europe. The infrastructure build up in decades, all thrown away. Cooperation in so many fields thrown away.
> 
> 
> You know the Emeritage in St Petersburg? Worldfamous museum..their director wrote sad letter expressing his deep regret how evrything is falling apart.



You be happy in those things but look at these :


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527136629860798464
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526059064031059968

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## Foinikas

jamahir said:


> I see. That must have been one of the plans after the Russians took over that airport outside Kiev. And now maybe he is in a bunker always unless there's some NATO leader visiting and then he comes under the protection of that leader's security cover too.


Exactly

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526961752084291584

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526983738294521857

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## Chen Jie

jamahir said:


> Sad to see someone so brainwashed as you. Yes, neither I nor the Russian Communist movement support Putin entirely but he talks simple and straight and we support him in regards to the Ukraine operation.


Yes Russia is the victim here and Ukraine the chess piece. India and China must never allow Russia to fall. Deep down I know India prefers a multipolar world despite the contempt for China.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527193713189036039

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## Soldier35

Today the first trial will be held in the city of Rostov-on-Don over the soldiers of the Aidar battalion who surrendered. Denis Maruga, who took part in the explosion of the bridge in 2019, as a result of which people were killed, will appear before the court. Muryga personally confessed to this during the interrogation. In total, 1,700 soldiers of the Ukrainian army have already surrendered from the Azovstal plant.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527168142132248576

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527193713189036039



The only reasons the rubble is "bouncing back" is because of the massive interventions by the Russian central bank and the fact the EU hasn't yet imposed ban and sanctions on Russian gas&oil... for now. When these will be implemented,watch the show. Russian economy is already set to plunge by 10% this year.

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## Primus

Anyone have an update on the Kherson front? Im hearing/seeing unconfirmed reports of the UAF conducting successful counter attacks against the Russians? Anyone can confirm or deny this? 

@jhungary @RescueRanger @LeGenD


----------



## Viet

jamahir said:


> Sad to see someone so brainwashed as you. Yes, neither I nor the Russian Communist movement support Putin entirely but he talks simple and straight and we support him in regards to the Ukraine operation.


Talking about brainwashing
You are from India?
You say so because you profit from cheap oil. Russian oil tankers have no customers in Europe. Instead of unloading in Europe they sell oil for cheap to Asia. Good for you. However bad for Putin. That’s a longer way but less revenues.


----------



## jamahir

Chen Jie said:


> Yes Russia is the victim here and Ukraine the chess piece. India and China must never allow Russia to fall. Deep down I know India prefers a multipolar world despite the contempt for China.



I agree about Russia and Ukraine and you must have watched a clip from an Indian news panel talk where an elderly Portuguese man berated the host for not allowing the Chinese guest to speak and also said that the host must understand that Russia is fighting for the world and in the sucess of Russia against NATO imperialism will be the benefit of India and China. Though many progressives in India see the hyprocrisy of Western government response about Ukraine as against other things, unfortunately since 2014 India is being ruled by NATO-aligned fascists / Nazis whose one action has been right in the beginning of the Ukraine operation to order the government-owned State Bank India to disallow its account holders from using SBI to deal with Russian entities and SBI also "advised" other Indian government-owned commercial entities to see if they have any Russia-connected dealings and stop those. Then there is the case of the big Indian IT services company Infosys which had an office in Russia but the company withdrew from Russia. The finance minister of Britain, Rishi Sunak, is the son-in-law of NR Narayana Murthy, one of the co-founders of Infosys and the main influence on the company though not actively part of it anymore and the main person anyone in India thinks of when Infosys is mentioned. So British government, through Rishi Sunak must have put word into ear of Narayana Murthy to tell Infosys to withdraw from Russia and it did and this would of course have had the blessing of the Modi government. And there is the issue of the Modi government not actively voting nay in the UN against Western-led motions against Russia but just sitting on the fence and abstaining from the votes even though India is supposed to be a major country and a traditional "friend" of Russia. So you see the duplicity of Modi's Indian establishment concerning Russia ? 



Soldier35 said:


> Today the first trial will be held in the city of Rostov-on-Don over the soldiers of the Aidar battalion who surrendered. Denis Maruga, who took part in the explosion of the bridge in 2019, as a result of which people were killed, will appear before the court. Muryga personally confessed to this during the interrogation. In total, 1,700 soldiers of the Ukrainian army have already surrendered from the Azovstal plant.



@Vergennes @Apollon, not happy news for you.



Viet said:


> Talking about brainwashing
> You are from India?
> You say so because you profit from cheap oil. Russian oil tankers have no customers in Europe. Instead of unloading in Europe they sell oil for cheap to Asia. Good for you. However bad for Putin. That’s a longer way but less revenues.
> 
> 
> View attachment 845353



1. What about me, India and brainwashing ?

2. Russia is participant in a research program with a German organization to design microscale converters of the kinetic energy of the omnipresent and endless neutrino particles and other natural and human-made radiation to be converted into electricity that will power wearable computers, stoves, data centers, vehicles and anything that can be powered by electricity. Oil and gas being sources of energy will be soon a thing of the past.

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## khansaheeb

Interesting if true.









Russian Tanks Surviving Hits from U.S.-made Javelin Missiles: Russian MoD


Russian T-72 main battle tanks currently operating in Ukraine appear to be surviving hits from the U.S.-made Javelin anti -tank guided missile (ATGM) in service with the Ukrainian Army. Javelins ATGM attack tanks from top down hitting at the least protected part of the tank. The Russian Ministry...




www.defenseworld.net





Russian Tanks Surviving Hits from U.S.-made Javelin Missiles: Russian MoD​Posted by Don Miller on Mar 3rd, 2022






Russian T-72 main battle tanks currently operating in Ukraine appear to be surviving hits from the U.S.-made Javelin anti -tank guided missile (ATGM) in service with the Ukrainian Army.
Javelins ATGM attack tanks from top down hitting at the least protected part of the tank.
Get alerts: 


The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD)’s spokesperson, Igor Konashenkov, during a briefing on March 2 said that a Russian tank crew led by Senior Lieutenant Starostin was attacked by the American Javelin ATGM, received a shell shock, but still was able to operate and destroyed two Ukrainian tanks.

Before being hit by the Javelin ATGM, the tank had shot and destroyed 8 BTR-80s (armored personnel carriers) and more than 100 nationalists (Ukrainian soldiers and other combatants).

The spokesperson was recounting the “heroism” of Russian tank crew shown during the “special military operation in Ukraine,” which Kyiv is calling an “invasion.”
In another battle, _“the crew of one of the Russian tanks under the command of senior sergeant Nimchenko, destroyed 6 tanks and 3 BTR-80, as well as more than 90 nationalists (killed), within 40 minutes,”_ the spokesperson said.
Damaged Russian tank in Ukraine
*Russian tanks sporting peculiar top canopy*
Some Russian T-72 tanks in Ukraine have been seen sporting a square top canopy with twin layer of steel. The canopy looks like an add-on welding and has not been seen in any previous iterations of the T-72. A section of observers say that the canopy’s purpose is to deflect ATGMs such as the Javelin. Others say the tanks with the steel canopy have been seen in urban areas which could mean they are to protect against small arms fire coming from rooftops.
*Ukraine social media replete with images of destroyed Russian tanks*
While the Ukrainian Army has not announced the number of Russian tanks destroyed, social media is full of images showing burning Russian tanks. Besides Javelin ATGMs, the Ukrainians are using Bayraktar TB2 drones to destroy Russian tanks. Videos of Russian tanks in the cross-hairs of Bayraktar and then going boom as a missile from it hits the tanks are all too common on social media.

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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526645798661935104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527163884762701824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527166336643780608

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## Paul2

Huffal said:


> Anyone have an update on the Kherson front? Im hearing/seeing unconfirmed reports of the UAF conducting successful counter attacks against the Russians? Anyone can confirm or deny this?
> 
> @jhungary @RescueRanger @LeGenD



No advances there. Hearing the news, I think Ukraine will not go there before they get success in the East.

Pushing Russians out of Khesanh will push ~18000 Russian troops to the Eastern front.

For all intents and purposes, Khesanh is an easy target to take, even with 10k Russian troops there.

There are signs Ukrainian comms give out that units there have an order to pin down, and keep Russians worn out, not to push them out.

South is easy to retake, East is not.

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## Chen Jie

Viet said:


> Talking about brainwashing
> You are from India?
> You say so because you profit from cheap oil. Russian oil tankers have no customers in Europe. Instead of unloading in Europe they sell oil for cheap to Asia. Good for you. However bad for Putin. That’s a longer way but less revenues.
> 
> 
> View attachment 845353


Well how do you define cheap? Oil was 60-80$ last year, now they are selling to the Chinese and Indians at 80$ when world prices are 100$. We will continue to prop up Russia. This is one thing unifying Indians and Chinese, the right for freedom from western hegemony. A quarter of humanity is easily siding Russia, the rest are just Western lackeys, Vietnam is also siding with Russia

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## RoadAmerica

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527020722954153985
> Regarding the situation on the Izyum front, the most intense point of the war at the moment. Units and subunits of the heroic (this is not sarcasm) 20th army took the village of Dolgenkoye and are regrouping, preparing for further offensive operations.
> 
> The assault on the village was difficult and bloody. The forests in the immediate vicinity of this settlement were well fortified, and our artillery and special forces had to work very hard, smoking the AFU from the greenery. Now in Sherwood Forest there are a lot of corpses of soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which, most likely, like their unfortunate predecessors, will be buried in a common pit, Ukraine does not take the corpses of its soldiers, no matter how much we offer them.
> 
> The neighbors on the left continue their offensive along the left bank of the Seversky Donets River, the neighbors on the right approached the settlement of Kurulka, which will soon face the fate of Dolgenkoe. After the capture of Kurulka, the Slavic-Kramatorsk enemy grouping will be cut off from the supply routes for fuel and ammunition. Delivery will be possible only by forest and country roads, on single vehicles.
> 
> Russian troops are moving slowly but surely. They try to minimize personnel losses and try to destroy the enemy with artillery, missiles and aircraft. In general, our offensive in this direction is similar to the movement of a road roller, which, although not fast, but reliably rolls the asphalt.
> 
> The equipment is put forward only after the sappers have carried out engineering reconnaissance of the area, since the mines of the Armed Forces of Ukraine did not regret and generously scattered them on the paths of a possible offensive by Russian troops. Russian artillery has been conducting an extremely successful counter-battery battle for several days, which forced quite sensible Ukrainian artillery to work from extreme distances, changing positions after each volley.
> 
> In general, everything remains as before. The Russian army is grinding the enemy, the losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are growing exponentially, and Ukraine is trying to shut the front with fresh reinforcements, throwing them into battle directly from the wheels, which certainly further increases the number of dead and wounded in the ranks of the Ukrainian army.
> 
> https://****/vysokygovorit/7981
> 
> Telegram
> 
> Старше Эдды
> 
> Касательно ситуации на Изюмском фронте, самой напряжённой на данный момент точке войны. Части и подразделения героической ( это не сарказм) 20 армии взяли село Долгенькое и проводят перегруппировку, готовясь к дальнейшим наступательным действиям.
> 
> Штурм…
> 
> ****/levigodman/2187
> 
> 4.2K viewsLevi, May 18 at 16:17


Seriously who writes this trash, even more who believes it 🤷🏿‍♂️
The heroic 20th army pushed deep into enemy territory fighting dragons and other middle earth creatures…..see that’s just as believable



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526869419376386050


Nice a technopark with no tech, seems logical.


----------



## Viet

jamahir said:


> I agree about Russia and Ukraine and you must have watched a clip from an Indian news panel talk where an elderly Portuguese man berated the host for not allowing the Chinese guest to speak and also said that the host must understand that Russia is fighting for the world and in the sucess of Russia against NATO imperialism will be the benefit of India and China. Though many progressives in India see the hyprocrisy of Western government response about Ukraine as against other things, unfortunately since 2014 India is being ruled by NATO-aligned fascists / Nazis whose one action has been right in the beginning of the Ukraine operation to order the government-owned State Bank India to disallow its account holders from using SBI to deal with Russian entities and SBI also "advised" other Indian government-owned commercial entities to see if they have any Russia-connected dealings and stop those. Then there is the case of the big Indian IT services company Infosys which had an office in Russia but the company withdrew from Russia. The finance minister of Britain, Rishi Sunak, is the son-in-law of NR Narayana Murthy, one of the co-founders of Infosys and the main influence on the company though not actively part of it anymore and the main person anyone in India thinks of when Infosys is mentioned. So British government, through Rishi Sunak must have put word into ear of Narayana Murthy to tell Infosys to withdraw from Russia and it did and this would of course have had the blessing of the Modi government. And there is the issue of the Modi government not actively voting nay in the UN against Western-led motions against Russia but just sitting on the fence and abstaining from the votes even though India is supposed to be a major country and a traditional "friend" of Russia. So you see the duplicity of Modi's Indian establishment concerning Russia ?
> 
> 
> 
> @Vergennes @Apollon, not happy news for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. What about me, India and brainwashing ?
> 
> 2. Russia is participant in a research program with a German organization to design microscale converters of the kinetic energy of the omnipresent and endless neutrino particles and other natural and human-made radiation to be converted into electricity that will power wearable computers, stoves, data centers, vehicles and anything that can be powered by electricity. Oil and gas being sources of energy will be soon a thing of the past.


The Russians will not do anything meaningful. Russia exports of fossils energy make up 2/3 of exports, half of Putin gov budget including budget for his army comes from selling fuels. why should they commit suicide? Why Putin will invent anything to save energy? If India, China stop buying fuels tomorrow Russia is bankrupt. Russians won’t have money to import anything. Russia will become a version of Srilanka.


----------



## TNT

Apollon said:


> He ruins russia, made NATO more powerful than ever and permanent ripped Ukraine away from russia. Dude even as hardcore putinist you should accept that this is not going as planned.
> 
> 
> I think worst for russia is the loss of all relations to Europe. The infrastructure build up in decades, all thrown away. Cooperation in so many fields thrown away.
> 
> 
> You know the Emeritage in St Petersburg? Worldfamous museum..their director wrote sad letter expressing his deep regret how evrything is falling apart.



Can u please not degrade the whole thread to ur level of stupidity? If u have something useful to share then go on but do not flood the thread with ur low iq rants which only makes u look stupid. 
Man these three guys jamahir, apollon and tai hai chen should be awarded with the most dumb ppl on pdf.


----------



## RoadAmerica

DF41 said:


> That look to me USA in preparation for a* HUGE HUGE HUGE backdown* in realisation USA cannot win Russia
> And now trying to save face and damage control and come to terms with Russia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526972308883222528


Keep believing that sunshine


----------



## reflecthofgeismar

Foinikas said:


> KKE wasn't receiving any help from Moscow during the civil war. Stalin kept his word and didn't support the guerillas here. That's why most of their help came from Yugoslavia,Albania and Bulgaria.
> 
> 
> His stupid comments aside,communists were brutal animals during the occupation and the civil war. Their crimes were so many and so evil,they could only be compared with today's jihadists.



The tragic thing is that many dirty commies committed unspeakable crimes against ordinary German soldiers and then German got tough on ordinary Greeks who were supposed to chill with the commie partisans.


----------



## WotTen

TNT said:


> Man these three guys jamahir, apollon and tai hai chen should be awarded with the most dumb ppl on pdf.



LOL, u mad bro? 

Their posts are no worse than the ridiculous propaganda tweets from both sides in this thread.

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## RoadAmerica

jamahir said:


> The Nazis in Russia whatever their exaggerated number you provide don't rule the country but in Ukraine they do.  The second-largest party in Russia is not any Nazi party but the Communist.


So equally as terrible


----------



## Primus

Paul2 said:


> No advances there. Hearing the news, I think Ukraine will not go there before they get success in the East.
> 
> Pushing Russians out of Khesanh will push ~18000 Russian troops to the Eastern front.
> 
> For all intents and purposes, Khesanh is an easy target to take, even with 10k Russian troops there.
> 
> There are signs Ukrainian comms give out that units there have an order to pin down, and keep Russians worn out, not to push them out.
> 
> South is easy to retake, East is not.


Ahhh so no counter attack YET then


----------



## RoadAmerica

Vergennes said:


> The only reasons the rubble is "bouncing back" is because of the massive interventions by the Russian central bank and the fact the EU hasn't yet imposed ban and sanctions on Russian gas&oil... for now. When these will be implemented,watch the show. Russian economy is already set to plunge by 10% this year.


Exactly, I’ve pointed this out many times as well.
The same Putin cheerleaders will ignore it. Maybe they should educate themselves instead and try to learn 🙄

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## TNT

WotTen said:


> LOL, u mad bro?
> 
> Their posts are no worse than the ridiculous propaganda tweets from both sides in this thread.



Well atleast they are sharing POVs of someone, he is a dumb moron engaging in dumb discussions. Half the page is usually filled with his crap. I dont have problem with anyside sharing their propaganda but he is just trolling.


----------



## Wergeland

reflecthofgeismar said:


> The tragic thing is that many dirty commies committed unspeakable crimes against ordinary German soldiers and then German got tough on ordinary Greeks who were supposed to chill with the commie partisans.



Are you serious?

So what youre saying is that its OK for German soldiers, «ordinary» soldiers or whatever you mean by that, were hard on civillians because communist soldiers fought against and treated german SOLDIERS bad?

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> I dont care about india.
> 
> What i do care about is crushing any russian Influenza here in Europe



India ? I quoted a republished Reuters article. Reuters is a *British*, NATO-aligned "news" agency. 



DF41 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526645798661935104
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527163884762701824
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527166336643780608



The first... 

The second, there was a vid some days ago about a little girl in a liberated city asking a Russian soldier if he has killed the bad people. He says no they don't kill but convince them to leave the bad ways. But Zelensky must be captured and tried.

The third, some of the proceeds might certainly be the cut of Zelensky boss.



RoadAmerica said:


> Seriously who writes this trash, even more who believes it 🤷🏿‍♂️
> The heroic 20th army pushed deep into enemy territory fighting dragons and other middle earth creatures…..see that’s just as believable



Right, as against the eternal truths propagated by NATO since its establishment including getting the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to USA as a volunteer nurse in a hospital in Kuwait which she said Iraqi soldiers ransacked and went on to throw out the babies from the incubators. Also to mention Libyan and Syrian soldiers "have been killing civilians including women and children" and Gaddafi having given Viagra to Libyan soldiers to rape Libyan females. Must say, the disinfo teams in NATO have good imagination.  Enough also to hide homelessless, hunger, money-continued health problems and so many other things. But yes America, spend your 700+ billion dollars on your imperialist military to invade societies where housing, water, education, healthcare etc are provided free by the system. 




RoadAmerica said:


> So equally as terrible



What's your problem with the Communists ?



Viet said:


> The Russians will not do anything meaningful. Russia exports of fossils energy make up 2/3 of exports, half of Putin gov budget including budget for his army comes from selling fuels. why should they commit suicide? Why Putin will invent anything to save energy? If India, China stop buying fuels tomorrow Russia is bankrupt. Russians won’t have money to import anything. Russia will become a version of Srilanka.



Yet Russia is participant in that research.  Also, Russia by itself and its allies or potential allies like China can fulfil its needs and of its allies whether in food production or in spacecraft. I don't know too deeply about this but other than consumer microprocessor and memory production currently I don't see much of Russia being dependent on the Western bloc. These things can be localized in collaboration with China if China stops being selfish by being ambiguous and not militarily supporting Russia in Ukraine. The socio-economic system in Russia can change to totally disconnect from the West and become progressive in consultation with the Communists. So you tell me in this situation what is the point of associating "bankruptcy" with Russia and what other imports will get stuck from the Western bloc ?



TNT said:


> Can u please not degrade the whole thread to ur level of stupidity? If u have something useful to share then go on but do not flood the thread with ur low iq rants which only makes u look stupid.
> Man these three guys jamahir, apollon and tai hai chen should be awarded with the most dumb ppl on pdf.



And your awards ? The Pride Of PDF ? The Best Of The Best Intellects That PDF Has To Offer ? You should write for the regular PDF writeup competition.


----------



## Wood

RescueRanger said:


> You must have gone out of your way to find that and post it here. It’s frigging Reddit- the platform where people believe Trump is the second coming of Jesus.
> 
> Why even give it importance?


Nope, was just casually checking to find that story. It is reported by multiple outlets like Newsweek, NDTV and even Pakistani ones. Why should it not be posted here?

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## Constantin84

khansaheeb said:


> Interesting if true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Tanks Surviving Hits from U.S.-made Javelin Missiles: Russian MoD
> 
> 
> Russian T-72 main battle tanks currently operating in Ukraine appear to be surviving hits from the U.S.-made Javelin anti -tank guided missile (ATGM) in service with the Ukrainian Army. Javelins ATGM attack tanks from top down hitting at the least protected part of the tank. The Russian Ministry...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defenseworld.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Tanks Surviving Hits from U.S.-made Javelin Missiles: Russian MoD​Posted by Don Miller on Mar 3rd, 2022
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian T-72 main battle tanks currently operating in Ukraine appear to be surviving hits from the U.S.-made Javelin anti -tank guided missile (ATGM) in service with the Ukrainian Army.
> Javelins ATGM attack tanks from top down hitting at the least protected part of the tank.
> Get alerts:
> 
> 
> The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD)’s spokesperson, Igor Konashenkov, during a briefing on March 2 said that a Russian tank crew led by Senior Lieutenant Starostin was attacked by the American Javelin ATGM, received a shell shock, but still was able to operate and destroyed two Ukrainian tanks.
> 
> Before being hit by the Javelin ATGM, the tank had shot and destroyed 8 BTR-80s (armored personnel carriers) and more than 100 nationalists (Ukrainian soldiers and other combatants).
> 
> The spokesperson was recounting the “heroism” of Russian tank crew shown during the “special military operation in Ukraine,” which Kyiv is calling an “invasion.”
> In another battle, _“the crew of one of the Russian tanks under the command of senior sergeant Nimchenko, destroyed 6 tanks and 3 BTR-80, as well as more than 90 nationalists (killed), within 40 minutes,”_ the spokesperson said.
> Damaged Russian tank in Ukraine
> *Russian tanks sporting peculiar top canopy*
> Some Russian T-72 tanks in Ukraine have been seen sporting a square top canopy with twin layer of steel. The canopy looks like an add-on welding and has not been seen in any previous iterations of the T-72. A section of observers say that the canopy’s purpose is to deflect ATGMs such as the Javelin. Others say the tanks with the steel canopy have been seen in urban areas which could mean they are to protect against small arms fire coming from rooftops.
> *Ukraine social media replete with images of destroyed Russian tanks*
> While the Ukrainian Army has not announced the number of Russian tanks destroyed, social media is full of images showing burning Russian tanks. Besides Javelin ATGMs, the Ukrainians are using Bayraktar TB2 drones to destroy Russian tanks. Videos of Russian tanks in the cross-hairs of Bayraktar and then going boom as a missile from it hits the tanks are all too common on social media.


Seriously?
Just when you think that they couldn't get more retarded, the Russians come out with something new to give them a bigger Darwin award. As if the entire world hasn't seen Russian turrets flying high when hit by ATGMs.

Russian bots in here should get a grip allready, even if in one month time Russia manages to achieve some of its objectives, the emperor is still naked.
The US managed to win the conventional war in Iraq in 2 weeks!....2 weeks!....with a country situated thousands of kilometres away from its home base,...and that 20 years ago,!...while Russia struggles for the LAST 3 MONTHS against a neighbouring country with NO AIR FORCE, NO NAVY (and they still lost their admiral ship against them,the Moskva,lol),NO MODERN AIR DEFENCE NETWORK.
This is no superpower, this is just an old relic gasping for air.Invade Europe? They would be torn to shreddes by F16's,Gripes,EF Typhoons, Rafales,F18's,advanced AA systems and professional soldiers.

The bear is naked , toothless and clawless.

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## RescueRanger

Wood said:


> Nope, was just casually checking to find that story. It is reported by multiple outlets like Newsweek, NDTV and even Pakistani ones. Why should it not be posted here?


Because it’s a load of nonsense - like who cares lol - I’m going to be honest here - until I see the planes on the tarmac it’s all just fluff. 

I love that a Pakistani is supporting Ukraine. Makes me proud . But I know a lot of these stories are fluff.

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## Vergennes

Constantin84 said:


> Seriously?
> Just when you think that they couldn't get more retarded, the Russians come out with something new to give them a bigger Darwin award. As if the entire world hasn't seen Russian turrets flying high when hit by ATGMs.
> 
> Russian bots in here should get a grip allready, even if in one month time Russia manages to achieve some of its objectives, the emperor is still naked.
> The US managed to win the conventional war in Iraq in 2 weeks!....2 weeks!....with a country situated thousands of kilometres away from its home base,...and that 20 years ago,!...while Russia struggles for the LAST 3 MONTHS against a neighbouring country with NO AIR FORCE, NO NAVY (and they still lost their admiral ship against them,the Moskva,lol),NO MODERN AIR DEFENCE NETWORK.
> This is no superpower, this is just an old relic gasping for air.Invade Europe? They would be torn to shreddes by F16's,Gripes,EF Typhoons, Rafales,F18's,advanced AA systems and professional soldiers.
> 
> The bear is naked , toothless and clawless.



"Muh nucklear wapens".

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## Constantin84

Vergennes said:


> "Muh nucklear wapens".


Don't forget hypersonic #neverseenbefore# missiles, planet killing torpedoes and suicide dolphins

In the real world, they've switched to manufacturing cars without air bags, meh,no technology for that complicated contraption

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## Wood

RescueRanger said:


> Because it’s a load of nonsense - like who cares lol - I’m going to be honest here - until I see the planes on the tarmac it’s all just fluff.
> 
> I love that a Pakistani is supporting Ukraine. Makes me proud . But I know a lot of these stories are fluff.


The story quotes the Ukrainian wife as source. But yea, the official reports may be released after the war is over

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## BHAN85

Constantin84 said:


> Seriously?
> Just when you think that they couldn't get more retarded, the Russians come out with something new to give them a bigger Darwin award. As if the entire world hasn't seen Russian turrets flying high when hit by ATGMs.
> 
> Russian bots in here should get a grip allready, even if in one month time Russia manages to achieve some of its objectives, the emperor is still naked.
> The US managed to win the conventional war in Iraq in 2 weeks!....2 weeks!....with a country situated thousands of kilometres away from its home base,...and that 20 years ago,!...while Russia struggles for the LAST 3 MONTHS against a neighbouring country with NO AIR FORCE, NO NAVY (and they still lost their admiral ship against them,the Moskva,lol),NO MODERN AIR DEFENCE NETWORK.
> This is no superpower, this is just an old relic gasping for air.Invade Europe? They would be torn to shreddes by F16's,Gripes,EF Typhoons, Rafales,F18's,advanced AA systems and professional soldiers.
> 
> The bear is naked , toothless and clawless.


USA is a rich country (the richest country) protected by two oceans, they had no security problems in Iraq war, it was just a show of empire dominance, to threat else countries and what could happen if you dont obbey the master, it was a show of force.

Russia is protecting their border with the cheapest part of their military, they have security problems, it's not a show, it's just a way of stop Kiev genocide to Russian people in East Ukraine, and stop the future deployment of NATO in Ukraine, using the cheapest means that Russia have (low skilled young soldiers, cheap expired weapons, and so on).

Russia conventional war higher capabilities is reserved for a higher threats to state security.
And Russia nuclear war capabilities is just the doomsday.

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## reflecthofgeismar

Wergeland said:


> Are you serious?
> 
> So what youre saying is that its OK for German soldiers, «ordinary» soldiers or whatever you mean by that, were hard on civillians because communist soldiers fought against and treated german SOLDIERS bad?



No.
What I meant was - There is village "A" and this village was declared safe by German authority.
The civilians were told/explained the "NOW-rules" and if they do as they were told everything is fine.

Let's assume the majority of the village inhabitants are the common folks, ordinary people, who are even NEUTRAL, not pro/against Germans in a special way. Except a few but which can't be directly detected by Germans or the other villagers. So you have 90 neutral, 5 pro German and 5 anti German villagers in that location.

Now partisans are coming in the night and murdering in a bestial way they 5 pro German Greeks and 10 soldiers.
Now you - as a neutral person can have a bad day because of a very strict and compliant officer. 
Back in the day it was ok to shoot 10 civilians for 1 murdered soldier.

And that's nothing compared what a much bigger %tage of Soviet soldiers did, even in their "liberated" areas.
Even Tito himself whined to Stalin about the animal behaviour from Soviets to Yugoslav women.

MOST German brutality was methodical.
I know some Poles (not Jewish) who told me that their great and grandparents knew what they could do with Germans and what not.
With Soviets it was a completely different thing.
They were raping and looting in unimaginable scale and shooting people without clear reason.


----------



## wahhab0202

Apollon said:


> You have prove for that? Nope. Just russian words. What counts is that even heavy artillery reaches front in huge numbers.
> 
> 
> 
> Russian space program is in shambles and breaking down since years. Remember the rocket with Z Satellite they launched in april?
> 
> 
> Did not reach orbit and reenters atmopshere.
> 
> 
> 
> I dont care about india.
> 
> 
> What i do care about is crushing any russian Influenza here in Europe


I don't any evident other than what I saw in the twitter, I am not in the conflict zone. There are a lot of tweep from certain accounts about the destruction of building that contain weapons from the west to Ukraine and military training centers. Off course many of the weapon would make to the frontline as Russian some constrain on resources to follow up their satellite findings.


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## Foinikas

reflecthofgeismar said:


> The tragic thing is that many dirty commies committed unspeakable crimes against ordinary German soldiers and then German got tough on ordinary Greeks who were supposed to chill with the commie partisans.


The communists would execute German POWs in brutal ways and then the ordinary people would suffer the reprisals. This is how KKE "fought for the people". Most of the time they were too busy killing their compatriots.

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## reflecthofgeismar

Foinikas said:


> The communists would execute German POWs in brutal ways and then the ordinary people would suffer the reprisals. This is how KKE "fought for the people". Most of the time they were too busy killing their compatriots.



I know, it's a tragic. Tell that please the hippity, hoppity Commies...
Don't get me wrong, Germans did unspeakable crimes too, like soldiers of every nation (I mean apart from the genocidial part of NS German policy) and I'm sorry for every dead Greek who died unjustly by Germans but many, many "crimes" were in fact reprisals.
Funny fact is that many Germans were back then and are today fans of Greece bc they were the root for WESTERN civilization.

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## Wood




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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527269072118992896

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## sammuel

Viet said:


> Talking about brainwashing
> You are from India?
> You say so because you profit from cheap oil. Russian oil tankers have no customers in Europe. Instead of unloading in Europe they sell oil for cheap to Asia. Good for you. However bad for Putin. That’s a longer way but less revenues.
> 
> 
> View attachment 845353



What about the gas ?

It is much more complicated to transfer gas by ship. How are the Russians going to transfer the gas they don't sell to Europe ?

They have a pipe to china and are building another one , but will that cover what they where selling to Europe ?


~

~


----------



## sammuel

khansaheeb said:


> Interesting if true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Tanks Surviving Hits from U.S.-made Javelin Missiles: Russian MoD
> 
> 
> Russian T-72 main battle tanks currently operating in Ukraine appear to be surviving hits from the U.S.-made Javelin anti -tank guided missile (ATGM) in service with the Ukrainian Army. Javelins ATGM attack tanks from top down hitting at the least protected part of the tank. The Russian Ministry...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defenseworld.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Tanks Surviving Hits from U.S.-made Javelin Missiles: Russian MoD​





If surviving a Javelin missile is on the news - that is not good news for the Russians.

~

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## Viet

sammuel said:


> What about the gas ?
> 
> It is much more complicated to transfer gas by ship. How are the Russians going to transfer the gas they don't sell to Europe ?
> 
> They have a pipe to china and are building another one , but will that cover what they where selling to Europe ?
> 
> 
> ~
> 
> ~


Sure, gas king Putin will try to sell gas to China and India. However that will be difficult to impossible. Russia needs new gas pipelines. How to build if no money no technology from the West? Even though Putin can make it, consumption in China and India cannot compensate the loss of European markets. Putin will sell gas much cheaper than let’s say Qatar.

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## jamahir

Constantin84 said:


> Don't forget hypersonic #neverseenbefore# missiles, planet killing torpedoes and suicide dolphins
> 
> In the real world, they've switched to manufacturing cars without air bags, meh,no technology for that complicated contraption



In the real world the Russians are developing a cyclorotor aircraft called Cyclocar which will be initially used for the military, can carry either six fully loaded soldiers or 600 kgs cargo, can fly at max 250 kmph and has a range of 500 kms. No reason this cannot be extended to become a a new paradigm and have variations as a skytaxi, as police vehicles, as ambulanc etc and which will eliminate the need for importing Japanese, American, European and South Korean ground cars and also for locally producing any ground car which has air bags.  Wait just a few years.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527278116279726081

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## Novus ordu seclorum

Russian commanders kill injured soldiers. Soldier sobs: "We are the fascists here".


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## wahhab0202

Do you guys think this plan is still workable or is too late now??
@Apollon @Hassan Al-Somal @Vergennes @jamahir. 
Please pardon my ignorance, but was it the plan before? I am a bit late to follow This Russian-Ukrainian military conflict (generally I didn't follow the political development in Europe prior to this war).


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527285862047789058

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## zartosht

Its really sad pathetic, and almost comical how western media tries to *spin a mass surrender as some glorious victory*

Sooo glorious that the ukies and the US are begging for a cease fire.






Beaten to a pulp.

I really cant tell whos more pathetic at this point. The western shitstream medias desperate propaganda?

Or the simple minded gullible idiots consuming that propaganda no questions asked? Hard to tell

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527302216557637640

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## jamal18

jamahir said:


> Indeed. Yesterday's newspaper at my house carried a Reuters article about the Azovstal surrender with a picture of the Ukrainian Nazis being frisked by the Russians to be on the safe side. Reuters being NATO-aligned quoted the war criminal, Zelensky, as saying about those surrendered Nazis "We want our heroes back".  And then the article towards the end the article said something like "According to the Russians the surrendered have Nazi elements". "According to the Russians" as if the whole world doesn't know the Azov people are Nazis.  How can these people lie so efforlessly and with a straight face ?
> 
> @Vergennes @Messerschmitt @F-22Raptor Wood Apollon @mmr @Viet The SC
> 
> @Foinikas @Hassan Al-Somal


Reuters I believe was the only Western agency to use the word 'surrender'. 

The BBC and sky and most others used the word 'evacuated'.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527302741420146688


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## jamahir

Novus ordu seclorum said:


> Russian commanders kill injured soldiers. Soldier sobs: "We are the fascists here".



The Sun ? Why not "The White House" ?  

In other news the 1700 Azov Nazis and other Ukrainian soldiers in Azovstal factory who surrendered to the Russians have been humanely treated including being presented in front of Red Cross representatives.



wahhab0202 said:


> Do you guys think this plan is still workable or is too late now??
> @Apollon @Hassan Al-Somal @Vergennes @jamahir.
> Please pardon my ignorance, but was it the plan before? I am a bit late to follow This Russian-Ukrainian military conflict (generally I didn't follow the political development in Europe prior to this war).
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527285862047789058



I am unable to understand how Ukraine becoming part of EU does not automatically translate into it being part of NATO unofficially. Secondly, when Russia started the operation it wanted demilitarization and deNazification of Ukraine. How would these be fulfilled in the Italian proposal ?



zartosht said:


> Its really sad pathetic, and almost comical how western media tries to *spin a mass surrender as some glorious victory*
> 
> Sooo glorious that the ukies and the US are begging for a cease fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beaten to a pulp.
> 
> I really cant tell whos more pathetic at this point. The western shitstream medias desperate propaganda?
> 
> Or the simple minded gullible idiots consuming that propaganda no questions asked? Hard to tell



@RoadAmerica, weren't you talking about "Russian lying propaganda" ? Zelensky is saying that "He wants Ukrainian heroes back" and how he negotiated the "evacuation" of these 1700 people and his lies are being amplified by NATO media.  

Nice report. I like this man and have watched another report of his on this thread.



jamal18 said:


> Reuters I believe was the only Western agency to use the word 'surrender'.
> 
> The BBC and sky and most others used the word 'evacuated'.



You are right, I checked again and saw that it carried "surrendered" though it has the rest of what I said.

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## Iron Shrappenel

Soldier35 said:


> Video of the heroic battle of the Russian T-80BVM tank in Ukraine in the Kharkov region. On the video, you can see that the Russian T-80 tank was damaged, but it continues to fight, the Russian tank is attacked from all sides by Ukrainian soldiers with grenade launchers, but it does not leave the battlefield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American M777 howitzers recently received by Ukraine from the United States have already come under attack by Russian troops. Russian kamikaze drones "KUB-UAV" were used for the strike. After the drone strike, the artillery battery of Ukraine went into the forest, after which they were hit by Russian artillery. The video is cropped due to poor quality
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The work of Russian combat crews of 152-mm self-propelled howitzers "Msta-S" and "Acacia-M" in Ukraine, the fire of Russian artillery is corrected by the drone "Orlan-10".


Those tankers deserve a medal.

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## Apollon

zartosht said:


> Its really sad pathetic, and almost comical how western media tries to *spin a mass surrender as some glorious victory*
> 
> Sooo glorious that the ukies and the US are begging for a cease fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beaten to a pulp.
> 
> I really cant tell whos more pathetic at this point. The western shitstream medias desperate propaganda?
> 
> Or the simple minded gullible idiots consuming that propaganda no questions asked? Hard to tell



The city that puossolini wanted most is destroyed. The steelplant is destroyed. The industry destroyed. Thats the fact. Swallow it.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527304397889253376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527283385131048960


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> The Sun ? Why not "The White House" ?
> 
> In other news the 1700 Azov Nazis and other Ukrainian soldiers in Azovstal factory who surrendered to the Russians have been humanely treated including being presented in front of Red Cross representatives.
> 
> 
> 
> I am unable to understand how Ukraine becoming part of EU does not automatically translate into it being part of NATO unofficially. Secondly, when Russia started the operation it wanted demilitarization and deNazification of Ukraine. How would these be fulfilled in the Italian proposal ?
> 
> 
> 
> @RoadAmerica, weren't you talking about "Russian lying propaganda" ? Zelensky is saying that "He wants Ukrainian heroes back" and how he negotiated the "evacuation" of these 1700 people and his lies are being amplified by NATO media.
> 
> Nice report. I like this man and have watched another report of his on this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> You are right, I checked again and saw that it carried "surrendered" though it has the rest of what I said.



What Russia wants is irrelevant. 6 weeks ago Russia wanted all of Ukraine. Russia can get a ceasefire and them **** off. Its a facesaving way for them to bug out. The sanctions will stay of course



wahhab0202 said:


> Do you guys think this plan is still workable or is too late now??
> @Apollon @Hassan Al-Somal @Vergennes @jamahir.
> Please pardon my ignorance, but was it the plan before? I am a bit late to follow This Russian-Ukrainian military conflict (generally I didn't follow the political development in Europe prior to this war).
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527285862047789058



Its too late, even more so that Russia has also lost Kharkiv. I say we continue this war. Its simply better


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> What Russia wants is irrelevant. 6 weeks ago Russia wanted all of Ukraine.



I don't think Russia *wanted Ukraine*, it just wanted the Ukrainian government to agree to some reasonable demands including deNazification of the country. Why does Zelensky refuse to do that ? He calls the surrendered Azov Nazis in Azovstal as heroes and NATO doesn't protest.  



Apollon said:


> Russia can get a ceasefire and them **** off. Its a facesaving way for them to bug out.



Let's see.



Apollon said:


> The sanctions will stay of course



In this post, this post and this post I have written why those NATO sanctions will not work except for in a limited immediate sense.

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> I don't think Russia *wanted Ukraine*, it just wanted the Ukrainian government to agree to some reasonable demands including deNazification of the country. Why does Zelensky refuse to do that ? He calls the surrendered Azov Nazis in Azovstal as heroes and NATO doesn't protest.
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see.
> 
> 
> 
> In this post, this post and this post I have written why those NATO sanctions will not work except for in a limited immediate sense.



You still dont get it. Russia is enemy of Europe. For that all economic, cultural and travel is cut. There is no going back from that as long putin is president. Even complete withdraw from russia wont change that.


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> You still dont get it. Russia is enemy of Europe. For that all economic, cultural and travel is cut. There is no going back from that as long putin is president. Even complete withdraw from russia wont change that.



So you perhaps want NATO stooges like Garry Kasparov or Alexei Navalny to be the president but that's not going to happen. If not Putin then the Communists. So Europe should make peace with Russia and disconnect from USA. Why do you want to fight USA's wars ?


----------



## khansaheeb

Constantin84 said:


> Seriously?
> Just when you think that they couldn't get more retarded, the Russians come out with something new to give them a bigger Darwin award. As if the entire world hasn't seen Russian turrets flying high when hit by ATGMs.
> 
> Russian bots in here should get a grip allready, even if in one month time Russia manages to achieve some of its objectives, the emperor is still naked.
> The US managed to win the conventional war in Iraq in 2 weeks!....2 weeks!....with a country situated thousands of kilometres away from its home base,...and that 20 years ago,!...while Russia struggles for the LAST 3 MONTHS against a neighbouring country with NO AIR FORCE, NO NAVY (and they still lost their admiral ship against them,the Moskva,lol),NO MODERN AIR DEFENCE NETWORK.
> This is no superpower, this is just an old relic gasping for air.Invade Europe? They would be torn to shreddes by F16's,Gripes,EF Typhoons, Rafales,F18's,advanced AA systems and professional soldiers.
> 
> The bear is naked , toothless and clawless.


Yes Russia is losing as they drag a few thousand soldiers in handcuffs from Azovstal steel plant.

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## jhungary

Huffal said:


> Anyone have an update on the Kherson front? Im hearing/seeing unconfirmed reports of the UAF conducting successful counter attacks against the Russians? Anyone can confirm or deny this?
> 
> @jhungary @RescueRanger @LeGenD


No movement on Kherson.

The center of gravity now is in the East, it's logical to divert all available resource to defeat the Russian in the East First.

There are local counter attack however, mostly to push the Russian into their defensive position and away from Mykolaiv 

Would imagine now since Kharkiv is out of Russian control, more resource should be diverted back to Kherson.

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## Constantin84

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527278293422317569
Russians foaming at the mouth...Look at that wild pig trying to scare people with his breakdown,lol
He even remembered that Finns are evil, because "hurr durr, they fought with the fascists!".....Does he remember that his decrepid, evil motherland attacked Finland first, without cause, in 1939, in the Winter War?

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## Viet

Constantin84 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527278293422317569
> Russians foaming at the mouth...Look at that wild pig trying to scare people with his breakdown,lol
> He even remembered that Finns are evil, because "hurr durr, they fought with the fascists!".....Does he remember that his decrepid, evil motherland attacked Finland first, without cause, in 1939, in the Winter War?


He is so angry. He will beat the neighbors’ dogs, and steal them washing machine. After that he will accuse them of fascism.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527278343107665922


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527252537711202305


----------



## StraightEdge

Zelensky is making millions. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526651333712936960

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## Constantin84

khansaheeb said:


> Yes Russia is losing as they drag a few thousand soldiers in handcuffs from Azovstal steel plant.


It doesn't matter if they'll win or not,.A powerful military would have ended the conventional war with Ukraine in 2 weeks . No matter what happens from now on,Russia lost allready

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## Nuclear Clown

Wergeland said:


> Youre missing the point.
> 
> Russia can afford to send millions of soldiers to the battlefield if it has to fight a existential threat. On the other hand Russia dosent have to send thousands of soldiers in order to create problems for Finland. They only have to fire a few weapons in order to crush the Finnish economy.
> 
> The question remain why on earth does Finland want to risk everything they have built in order to gain so little? Its not like Russia is amassing massive Army right outside Finnish border as we speak.
> 
> Russia is avdancing in Ukraine, every week they control more terroritory. Thats a fact. Not all wars are like German Panzerfaust blitzwar or First Gulf War. Some wars are fought over decadades and decades. Heck some even lasts for centuries.
> 
> If Russia attacks Finland immidiately before it is acceded into NATO, very likely USA wont directly involve itself in the conflict, just like in Ukraine.


And start a war with the EU which, BTW, just like the UNSC has the right to summon NATO... Oh, BTW, France has more nukes than it pretends and is the only country with stealth SLBMs... In other terms, you only know your under attack when MIRVs are released about 20s before they go boom


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527275183031058432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527333999302959126

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527347102447128584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527331166650798083

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527248221877190659


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> So you perhaps want NATO stooges like Garry Kasparov or Alexei Navalny to be the president but that's not going to happen. If not Putin then the Communists. So Europe should make peace with Russia and disconnect from USA. Why do you want to fight USA's wars ?



As i said you dont get it. This is not US war, this is our war. Putin is a facist who dreams about an eurasian empire. Its better to slaughter them in Ukraine then here.


We will have peace when we have crippled them beyond repair.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527252091357511680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527321282525552644

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527304384065028096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527333057237114912


----------



## RoadAmerica

jamahir said:


> The Sun ? Why not "The White House" ?
> 
> In other news the 1700 Azov Nazis and other Ukrainian soldiers in Azovstal factory who surrendered to the Russians have been humanely treated including being presented in front of Red Cross representatives.
> 
> 
> 
> I am unable to understand how Ukraine becoming part of EU does not automatically translate into it being part of NATO unofficially. Secondly, when Russia started the operation it wanted demilitarization and deNazification of Ukraine. How would these be fulfilled in the Italian proposal ?
> 
> 
> 
> @RoadAmerica, weren't you talking about "Russian lying propaganda" ? Zelensky is saying that "He wants Ukrainian heroes back" and how he negotiated the "evacuation" of these 1700 people and his lies are being amplified by NATO media.
> 
> Nice report. I like this man and have watched another report of his on this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> You are right, I checked again and saw that it carried "surrendered" though it has the rest of what I said.


Both sides lie, that’s why I’m here. Sometimes I just like to point out the hypocrites


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527331984749387800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527197943761186816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527260269642231809

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527242568534310914


----------



## gambit

Chen Jie said:


> Well how do you define cheap? Oil was 60-80$ last year, now they are selling to the Chinese and Indians at 80$ when world prices are 100$. We will continue to prop up Russia. This is one thing unifying Indians and Chinese, the right for freedom from western hegemony. A quarter of humanity is easily siding Russia, the rest are just Western lackeys, Vietnam is also siding with Russia


Here is the real deal...









Why do we import Russian (and other foreign) oil when we have a lot of it in the U.S.?


The way U.S. oil refineries are set up has a lot to do with it.




www.marketplace.org





When oil refiners talk about crude, they generally ask two questions. First: How easy is it to break up the hydrocarbons to produce, say, gasoline or jet fuel? (In oil speak: How light is it?) Second: How much sulfur is in the oil? If there isn’t much, it’s called sweet crude.​​“Higher sulfur content, more sour crudes actually are cheaper to purchase,” said Hugh Daigle, associate professor of petroleum engineering at the University of Texas at Austin.​​That’s because they take longer to process and need specialized refining equipment. *This cheap, lower-quality crude comes from Canada, Venezuela and Russia,* among other spots. Back in the late 1990s and early 2000s, it was the product U.S. refiners were buying.​
See the highlighted? Back when China was buying oil from Venezuela, Chavez even offered to pay for the shipping cost. It was a great deal for China. But after Chinese tankers were loaded, they sailed to Texas and offloaded the high sulfur Venezuelan crude to US refiners. China bought from Venezuela at a discount, including the shipping cost subsidized by Venezuela, then sold the Venezuelan crude to America for cheap. Then the Chinese tankers sailed somewhere else and picked up more oil to transport. Loser: Venezuela.


----------



## Viet

Ilja Medwedew, while his father Dmitri Medwedew threatens the US, EU and other with nuclear holocaust, lives in the US, has a US passport. He has a gas station and supermarket chain.
Real comedy.







© Vyacheslav Prokofyev / Picture Alliance
Sohn von Dmitri Medwedew

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3


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527232856623398912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527233405557125120
The Ukrainian garrison at Avdeevka has been blockaded in the town, unable to exit or even conduct artillery strikes. As soon as they attempt to take firing positions, counter-battery fire forces them back.

Abkhaz also remarked on the wisdom of the Allied military command, which resists emotions and the impulse to achieve showy results through the blood of the Allied soldiers. Rather than wasting personnel for medical victories, operations are planned carefully and with regard to preserving soldiers’ lives.

[GB: This corresponds to the Russian tactics in Donbass, where artillery, missile strikes, and air strikes are used to comprehensively rout the Ukrainian resistance before any forward advance by armoured groups or infantry is attempted.]

I would venture to predict that the fall of Avdeevka is not far away.


****/Slavyangrad/943



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527225568827252736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527222320833740800

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527235936773341186

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527216593725440000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527219533609680896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527216593725440000

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Wergeland

Raffie said:


> And start a war with the EU which, BTW, just like the UNSC has the right to summon NATO... Oh, BTW, France has more nukes than it pretends and is the only country with stealth SLBMs... In other terms, you only know your under attack when MIRVs are released about 20s before they go boom



Youre saying France will nuke Russia if Russia attackes Finland? What makes you believe the French are dumb? 

If you wanna play the nuke game there is really one nation that has enough of them to destroy Russia, and that is The USA. Russia would of course retaliate and destroy USA too.
In fact Russia has enough nukes to totally destroy France and UK, which are the only nuclear powers in Europe. But neither of them have enoug nukes to destroy Russia completley.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527360963279654935

18 new M777s will now be delivered as part of the final money from the previous package. 

$40B was just approved today for Ukraine

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527345099016765441

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## beast89



Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## beast89



Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526141909722357764

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527376695652560896
US to arm Ukraine with advanced antiship missiles, Harpoon and Naval Strike Missiles

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Love Love:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527345588832190465

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527362049378222085

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527231151366086656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527029384934203397

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527194307815407616


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527220944720175106


----------



## beast89

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527362049378222085
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527231151366086656
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527029384934203397
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527194307815407616



Second phase of the operation at the steelworks is going very smoothly props to zelensky


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527313671600615426

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527241727714656256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527213449377456130

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527184763685154816


----------



## Wood

@PakFactor


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526905669089107968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526860742980509697

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526844874712129536

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## F-22Raptor

It sounds like MLRS systems M270 or M142 HIMARS could be included in new weapons packages for Ukraine.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527213855276945408

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527349736306462730

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527387950568415233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527299866610880512

Russian air force destroys military sites in the Severodonetsk region, eastern Ukraine

Reactions: Like Like:
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1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527360850259939337

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527367615982645251

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527353411938635784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527355850251452417

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527359616216027159

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527162095460044800


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527155367901286400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527148048857669634

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527041699293298692


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527412578397433857

Reactions: Like Like:
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1


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## Paul2

Russians keep pushing Popasna, Severodonetsk

Ukrainians keep holding, and withdrawing from where they can't suppress enemy artillery.

Kharkiv region, more regrouping. Ukrainians decided to take remaining villages slowly, preserving soldiers.

Sumy - crossborder shelling, crossborder skirmish. Attempted infiltration by Russian specops suspected. Russian specops platoon retreated behind the border.


----------



## PakFactor

Wood said:


> @PakFactor



It's a double edged sword taking Russian funds to pay Ukraine for reconstruction -- because what about the rest that was unnecessarily destroyed due to Western interference? This could set a precedence as the video mentioned violating private property rights, just because someone is close to someone and you take there assets. As for the Marshall Plan, good luck with inflation and all and we could be headed into a recession type situation down the road.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527397291145019400


----------



## Paul2

If you seen fee maps going around, Russians have more units north of Severodonetsk, but in fact the net amount of forces is bigger south to it. There are fever units, but more troops.

Forces in Izyum are ones who were pushed there from Kiyv, or after 1st, or even 2nd RnR.

Russian forces attacking from Popasna, are much more fresh, since they didn't fight much besides Marioupol, or skirmishes during first hours of the war, and they largely preserved their artillery, or even got extra from reserves.

As I said, it's still 6-7 freaking field armies. The fight will last until autumn as both sides got depleted, and heavy weapons are still nowhere in sight besides puny 100 m777


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527393917800431624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527396126877442050

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527398133587759105

The artillery of the 100th brigade of the army of the Donetsk People's Republic, correcting the fire with the help of a drone received from the Veche, destroys and puts to flight tanks and infantry of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Avdiivka direction.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527388362167832581

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Training and familisation is a problem.
> 
> Patriot is a very complicated system, more or less like how AGEIS system work, it would take an average Ukrainian weeks, if not months of training to be able to use it.



Few weeks, they better get started learning then, we don't know how long this war will be, can't assume its going to be over before Ukrainians start learning. 


jhungary said:


> Another issue is export control, US does not want to lose sensitive information on their system, which is most tech supplied are stripped of essential tech, you can't really strip the essential system on a Patriot....


Hence why I suggested they put in locations that's far from Russian controlled territory and protect more vital assets like in Western Ukraine like Odessa and Lviv and other locations. Why else Russians keep lobbing cruise missiles there. Or maybe China can provide their SAM system just like they delivered to Serbia. But I kid on that one.


True, maybe even help build their Neptune missiles besides their artillery. focus on breaking that blockade as well as making a land attack version of the Neptune. Should help increase the range. Also don't know if Poland or other countries can build SAMs like the S-300 besides radar and missiles to replace those fired or destroyed. 



jhungary said:


> About logistic, Russia still can't hit anywhere in Ukraine at any time, Logistic is not really an issue here, but I think Ukrainian would need to focus on Civilian-Military effort on Logistic. Maybe they will do it in their 4th round of TDF intake. Giving the first round is trained to Defend, second round is trained as replacement of loss combat power, 3rd round is train on counter offensive, probably 4 th round are trained to supplies and logistic? I don't know.





jhungary said:


> About logistic, Russia still can't hit anywhere in Ukraine at any time, Logistic is not really an issue here, but I think Ukrainian would need to focus on Civilian-Military effort on Logistic. Maybe they will do it in their 4th round of TDF intake. Giving the first round is trained to Defend, second round is trained as replacement of loss combat power, 3rd round is train on counter offensive, probably 4 th round are trained to supplies and logistic? I don't know.


I was more referring to having trucks and vans than more about people that can drive them. The Ukrainian troops need constantly supplies for defending as well as launching counter offensive.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527398133587759105


----------



## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> If you seen fee maps going around, Russians have more units north of Severodonetsk, but in fact the net amount of forces is bigger south to it. There are fever units, but more troops.
> 
> Forces in Izyum are ones who were pushed there from Kiyv, or after 1st, or even 2nd RnR.
> 
> Russian forces attacking from Popasna, are much more fresh, since they didn't fight much besides Marioupol, or skirmishes during first hours of the war, and they largely preserved their artillery, or even got extra from reserves.
> 
> As I said, it's still 6-7 freaking field armies. The fight will last until autumn as both sides got depleted, and heavy weapons are still nowhere in sight besides puny 100 m777




The new $40B package will last Ukrainian forces until the end of the year. The Ukrainians are getting a lot of fresh weaponry, and likely more advanced with MLRS coming.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## Oldman1

F-22Raptor said:


> It sounds like MLRS systems M270 or M142 HIMARS could be included in new weapons packages for Ukraine.


It's more like should. It would help drastically.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527384030882037760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527371601666363392

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527366250032029696

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Oldman1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527283385131048960


----------



## F-22Raptor

Oldman1 said:


> It's more like should. It would help drastically.



Those systems will be a nightmare for the Russians. That’s a lot of accurate firepower at significant range that the Russians will struggle to counter due to their mobility.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Oldman1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527268286072856576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527243589310455808


----------



## Nuclear Clown

Wergeland said:


> Youre saying France will nuke Russia if Russia attackes Finland? What makes you believe the French are dumb?
> 
> If you wanna play the nuke game there is really one nation that has enough of them to destroy Russia, and that is The USA. Russia would of course retaliate and destroy USA too.
> In fact Russia has enough nukes to totally destroy France and UK, which are the only nuclear powers in Europe. But neither of them have enoug nukes to destroy Russia completley.


You don't get what the 3rd gen stealth that was mounted onboard the M51.3 SLBM is!!! 





it simply absorbs ANY type of radar waves, including from OTHRs like the 29B6 Konteyner. It's in service since June 2020 for the M51 missile. Rafale F4 receives this too and so will the ASN4G hypersonic nuclear cruise missile... 
So, what happens? No detection from where it comes before the MIRVs are released... This is no 200 seconds warning, it's 20 to 30s and it's a bit too late to order retaliations in case of first strike... Moreover, go figure who launched, how it did happened... Who knows, it may even be launched from Iranian territorial waters, some unloaded missiles with stealth off may even be launched towards Israel and USA : you just need to read Khamenei's Twitter to conclude he's totally bonkers... 
With such a tool, we can absolutely play dirty.

Moreover, France LIES about its nuclear stockpile, I'm well placed to know this: the public is only told about the peace-time "active" nukes : this means those ready to be launched 24/7/365 in retaliation for a surprise attack, so this means the 2 SSBNs that are permanently at sea with 16 M51.3 SLBMs, each having 10 MIRVs...
Following Popovs' nuclear threats, guess what? The 4 subs are at sea and the ASMPA-R Mach-3 ALCMs have been deployed... Aren't there some Rafales in the Baltic states? ASMP ranged 300km+, ASMPA ranged 500km+, ASMPA-R has seen its range extended (likely 750-800km now) and, how funny, France did another test on March 23rd 2022...




Then, you know, there is no need to fully destroy Russia!!! The 3 quarters of the country are near empty : 





So, you know, with 640 MIRVs and 58 ALCMs, knowing that the French ones are often confused with neutron-bombs due to enhanced radiation effect that implies that the lethality is multiplied by 10, so, e.g. a 100 kt will send ad patres as much ppl as if it was an 1 megaton one, except that instead of being immediately wiped out by the thermal effect, they will suffer a slow and painful death by ARS while survivors will be slowly eaten by cancer... It's even nastier is case of surface blast as the ground materials that are neutron-activated will be way more radio-active, in case of surface blast, the fallouts would look like Chernobyl's Red Forrest in May 1986, except this intensity would spread to about 5000km²+ for a 100kt and to 10,000km²+ for a 300kt while you can double-triple the area for the edge of 1 rad/h zone. Pay a visit to Pripyat and the guide will tell you to move away from the area when it barely radiates 0.05 rad/h. OK, at 1 rad/h you would only start to puke and defecate in your pants after a week, you'll only be a castrated zombie after 2 weeks and reach a lethal dose after a month, and, any way, even at 0.1rad/h, the area is FUBAR...
Now you surely know that in order to please the ecologists, French govt. publishes nuclear dismantlement, don't you? Take the Hades which was similar to the Iskander, except there were two per TEL and the TEL looked like a normal truck:




On 23 June 1997 the last of the Hadès missiles was destroyed... Now, if all the cold war IRBMs on the Plateau d'Albion etc, were dismantled, I've NEVER read about the dismantlement of the 452 Cold War era city-buster warheads between 800 kt and 1.2 Mt, but one thing for sure : the 250kg payload of the MdCN is enough for 1 megaton, the 450kg payload of the SCALP is enough for 1.8 megaton

So, you know, it makes no difference if Russia can fully destroy the UK, France or the USA: the only difference is that Russians will die slowly, first symptoms will be a headache like they never had, then diarrhea and puking and I prefer not speaking about further effects of ARS, so, you know what? I definitively prefer being at the receiving end of the Tsar-Bomba than by a TNO (Tête Nucléaire Océanique) or by a TNA (Tête Nucléaire Aéroportée) and not being wiped out due to the rather moderate yield and the even less destructive surface burst, because I know about the totally insane levels of radiations and fallouts that will be released...

Then, some more fun : Map of French NPPs: 




Near all French NPPs have 4x 3817 MWth reactors, sometimes only two... In Chernobyl, there were 4x 3200 MWth reactors and only one was blown up... Just nuke the area where I live, get 4.77x the Chernobyl disaster as a special prize  I can tell you that the Chernobyl fallouts did their world tour several times, just like Céline Dion  
Moreover, EDF owns the biggest stockpile of enriched uranium, and this is not including the 30t+ of mil-grade plutonium which is assuredly stored in a military facility... My 2 cts that if these end in a nuke's fireball, there won't be any need for these to reach the critical mass to detonate, you know, same effect as a thermonuclear when you have a double flash  Now I can't tell about the exact effect but with such a quantity, the only thing that is certain, it'd make the Tsar Bomba look like a joke, so... maybe... 




There's something dumber than nuking Russia : it's nuking France because it's the most nuclear country on the planet...

And, another point for fun? Ever heard about the CERN https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN
You surely know that it's the #1 antimatter production + storage facility and that they allegdly have already opened two tiny wormholes for short time, but, IDK if it's still on their Facebook page,, but there once was this in the pictures... 




Some feared they may create a blackhole by accident while using the LHC. They said it can't happen as an accident, they didn't said that it can't happen at all... And the LHC is dug enough deep to withstand direct nuke blasts, so, you know, Putler can have as many nukes he wants  

Why limiting yourself at destroying Russia when you can do a nicer fireworks?




Frankly? Who wants to live in Mordor with a Putler (or uncle-Xi) posing as Sauron and with orcs everywhere?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## khansaheeb

US Senate passes whopping $40 billion in aid for Ukraine


The US Senate has approved over $40 billion in “aid” for Ukraine.




www.presstv.ir





US Senate passes whopping $40 billion in aid for Ukraine​Thursday, 19 May 2022 8:48 PM *[ Last Update: Thursday, 19 May 2022 8:48 PM ]*





File photo of the United States Senate building in Washington, DC
*The US Senate has approved more than $40 billion in new “aid” for Ukraine, which has been the site of a Russian military operation since February.*
The legislative body gave its blessing to the monumental package on Thursday, with 86 votes in favor and 11 against, the Bloomberg news agency reported.
“The message this sends is that the United States is committed, that we are going to stand with any country that is a democracy when there is an autocracy that attempts to overrun it,” Idaho Republican Jim Risch alleged.
This comes after objections by Kentucky Senator Rand Paul had delayed passage of the bill for an entire week.
“If Congress really believed giving Ukraine $40 bn was in our national interest, they could easily pay for it by taxing every income taxpayer $500,” Paul tweeted on Thursday.
The bill cleared the House of Representatives last week on a 368 to 57 vote. 
The package, which is significantly larger than the $33 billion that Joe Biden had requested for Ukraine last month, now only awaits the president’s signature.
Separately, US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said he had authorized $100 million in additional US arms, equipment, and supplies for Ukraine.
Russian President Vladimir Putin announced the “special military operation” on February 24 in order to “demilitarize” the Donetsk and Lugansk regions in eastern Ukraine. In 2014, the two regions declared themselves new republics, refusing to recognize Ukraine’s Western-backed government.
Ordering the operation, Putin said the mission was aimed at “defending people who for eight years were suffering persecution and genocide by the Kiev regime.”
Another goal sought by the operation was to “de-Nazify” Ukraine, the Russian head of state also said back then, apparently referring to the far-right Azov militant outfit and the influence it wields across Ukraine’s political and military spheres.



Press TV in Mariupol: Ukraine blew up theater to blame it on Russia
Ukraine blew up Mariupol
Also on Thursday, the Group of Seven so-called “advanced economies” that gather Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the UK, and the United States, agreed to provide Ukraine with $18.4 billion.
The group said the money was to be used towards Ukraine’s “paying its bills,” Reuters reported.
Ukraine's Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal said the funds “would speed up Kiev's victory over Russia” and were just “as important as "the weapons you provide," the agency added.
The Western side has, on the other hand, been showering Russia with sanctions since the launch of the operation.
Moscow has unequivocally warned that the unfaltering Western support for the Ukrainian side would indefinitely prolong the war.
It has also vowed to end the operation once its “security demands” were met. The list of demands include provision of security for Russia’s interests in Ukraine and prevention of the ex-Soviet republic’s admission into the Western military alliance of NATO.
Press TV’s website can also be accessed at the following alternate addresses:
www.presstv.ir
www.presstv.co.uk
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Ukraine Russia Europe United States aid
MORE FROM FOREIGN POLICY



South Korea calls for denuclearization of North​


----------



## Paul2

Raffie said:


> You don't get what the 3rd gen stealth that was mounted onboard the M51.3 SLBM is!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it simply absorbs ANY type of radar waves, including from OTHRs like the 29B6 Konteyner. It's in service since June 2020 for the M51 missile. Rafale F4 receives this too and so will the ASN4G hypersonic nuclear cruise missile...
> So, what happens? No detection from where it comes before the MIRVs are released... This is no 200 seconds warning, it's 20 to 30s and it's a bit too late to order retaliations in case of first strike... Moreover, go figure who launched, how it did happened... Who knows, it may even be launched from Iranian territorial waters, some unloaded missiles with stealth off may even be launched towards Israel and USA : you just need to read Khamenei's Twitter to conclude he's totally bonkers...
> With such a tool, we can absolutely play dirty.
> 
> Moreover, France LIES about its nuclear stockpile, I'm well placed to know this: the public is only told about the peace-time "active" nukes : this means those ready to be launched 24/7/365 in retaliation for a surprise attack, so this means the 2 SSBNs that are permanently at sea with 16 M51.3 SLBMs, each having 10 MIRVs...
> Following Popovs' nuclear threats, guess what? The 4 subs are at sea and the ASMPA-R Mach-3 ALCMs have been deployed... Aren't there some Rafales in the Baltic states? ASMP ranged 300km+, ASMPA ranged 500km+, ASMPA-R has seen its range extended (likely 750-800km now) and, how funny, France did another test on March 23rd 2022...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then, you know, there is no need to fully destroy Russia!!! The 3 quarters of the country are near empty :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you know, with 640 MIRVs and 58 ALCMs, knowing that the French ones are often confused with neutron-bombs due to enhanced radiation effect that implies that the lethality is multiplied by 10, so, e.g. a 100 kt will send ad patres as much ppl as if it was an 1 megaton one, except that instead of being immediately wiped out by the thermal effect, they will suffer a slow and painful death by ARS while survivors will be slowly eaten by cancer... It's even nastier is case of surface blast as the ground materials that are neutron-activated will be way more radio-active, in case of surface blast, the fallouts would look like Chernobyl's Red Forrest in May 1986, except this intensity would spread to about 5000km²+ for a 100kt and to 10,000km²+ for a 300kt while you can double-triple the area for the edge of 1 rad/h zone. Pay a visit to Pripyat and the guide will tell you to move away from the area when it barely radiates 0.05 rad/h. OK, at 1 rad/h you would only start to puke and defecate in your pants after a week, you'll only be a castrated zombie after 2 weeks and reach a lethal dose after a month, and, any way, even at 0.1rad/h, the area is FUBAR...
> Now you surely know that in order to please the ecologists, French govt. publishes nuclear dismantlement, don't you? Take the Hades which was similar to the Iskander, except there were two per TEL and the TEL looked like a normal truck:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 23 June 1997 the last of the Hadès missiles was destroyed... Now, if all the cold war IRBMs on the Plateau d'Albion etc, were dismantled, I've NEVER read about the dismantlement of the 452 Cold War era city-buster warheads between 800 kt and 1.2 Mt, but one thing for sure : the 250kg payload of the MdCN is enough for 1 megaton, the 450kg payload of the SCALP is enough for 1.8 megaton
> 
> So, you know, it makes no difference if Russia can fully destroy the UK, France or the USA: the only difference is that Russians will die slowly, first symptoms will be a headache like they never had, then diarrhea and puking and I prefer not speaking about further effects of ARS, so, you know what? I definitively prefer being at the receiving end of the Tsar-Bomba than by a TNO (Tête Nucléaire Océanique) or by a TNA (Tête Nucléaire Aéroportée) and not being wiped out due to the rather moderate yield and the even less destructive surface burst, because I know about the totally insane levels of radiations and fallouts that will be released...
> 
> Then, some more fun : Map of French NPPs:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Near all French NPPs have 4x 3817 MWth reactors, sometimes only two... In Chernobyl, there were 4x 3200 MWth reactors and only one was blown up... Just nuke the area where I live, get 4.77x the Chernobyl disaster as a special prize  I can tell you that the Chernobyl fallouts did their world tour several times, just like Céline Dion
> Moreover, EDF owns the biggest stockpile of enriched uranium, and this is not including the 30t+ of mil-grade plutonium which is assuredly stored in a military facility... My 2 cts that if these end in a nuke's fireball, there won't be any need for these to reach the critical mass to detonate, you know, same effect as a thermonuclear when you have a double flash  Now I can't tell about the exact effect but with such a quantity, the only thing that is certain, it'd make the Tsar Bomba look like a joke, so... maybe...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's something dumber than nuking Russia : it's nuking France because it's the most nuclear country on the planet...
> 
> And, another point for fun? Ever heard about the CERN https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN
> You surely know that it's the #1 antimatter production + storage facility and that they allegdly have already opened two tiny wormholes for short time, but, IDK if it's still on their Facebook page,, but there once was this in the pictures...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some feared they may create a blackhole by accident while using the LHC. They said it can't happen as an accident, they didn't said that it can't happen at all... And the LHC is dug enough deep to withstand direct nuke blasts, so, you know, Putler can have as many nukes he wants
> 
> Why limiting yourself at destroying Russia when you can do a nicer fireworks?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Frankly? Who wants to live in Mordor with a Putler (or uncle-Xi) posing as Sauron and with orcs everywhere?



You don't need to nuke Russia, you only need to nuke Moscow.

Moscow is Russia for all intents, and purposes.

Russia is more centralised than UK, Japan, or Thailand.

The capital region is pretty much a city-state, and the rest of Russia acts as a colonial territory.






In Russia, most of the country is wooden sticks except for Moscow



Paul2 said:


> Things probably changed a bit since my last time in Russia in nineties, but I've never seen such disparity in "on paper" wealth, and reality.
> 
> My father told me we are going to see a rich country with oil, but only Moscow was rich, everything else were sticks. We only seen 1 city along the way with concrete buildings.
> 
> Very much like how North Korea been until the last Kim.
> 
> After googling pictures how most of Russia looks now, I'm it's surprised how little has changed given the amount of oil they have.





Paul2 said:


> It look may look so. Eating few megatons, and losing few millions will probably be to Russia as a country like .22 to an elephant, but not so much to Russia as a state.
> 
> I rode train no. 4 with father to Moscow in mid-nineties, and Russia was sooo empty. Most of Russia is empty, and that's the point. Moscow is like 50% of Russia GDP.
> 
> And you know, money is power. Nobody can rule without money, and especially if that state already been half-assing the military funding before that irrecoverable hit comes.
> 
> You can rally people into a rebuilding project if they believe there is something worth rebuilding. And if not, and your state was already a late stage decay, elites will instead deliver a finishing blow to you, and go serve the new master... "leaders first"



*How countries die?*

Really, look no further than Iraq.

It's supposedly a functioning state, but de-facto it's anything, but a state.

I really believe USA tried, and tried really hard to preserve Iraq's statehood, but in the end "the medical science can transplant a heart today, but brain death is still irreversible"

For Iraq to regain a functioning statehood, it will either need a really long time to recover naturally, or it will have to fail completely, to let something new entirely to be created from its pieces.

Russia may be on it's way to Iraqing very soon too. The moment Moscow goes broke, we get an imperial state which is suddenly realises it paid to imperialise all these territories, but no money left for soldier there to eat.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

wahhab0202 said:


> Do you guys think this plan is still workable or is too late now??
> @Apollon @Hassan Al-Somal @Vergennes @jamahir.
> Please pardon my ignorance, but was it the plan before? I am a bit late to follow This Russian-Ukrainian military conflict (generally I didn't follow the political development in Europe prior to this war).
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527285862047789058




It is not workable because there would be no agreement on #Donbas. Zelensky/Ukraine refused to implement Minsk II agreement that gave autonomy to the Russian-speaking East. Instead, they opted for a military solution and did everything they could to subdue these communities. This is what triggered Russia's entry into the war.

Second, allowing Ukraine to enter EU means they'll be part of the collective EU security - meaning any conflict between Ukraine and Russia would be one that is between Russia and the whole of EU that will also bring direct NATO's involvement. The "Neutral" status mentioned in that proposal is just a lip service.

On Crimea, I doubt Russia is willing to renegotiate on this important island. 

To sum it up, that is not a workable solution. Any plan that doesn't recognize the independence of Russian-speaking East in Ukraine (or aka #Donbas) is dead on arrival.

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## The SC

Paul2 said:


> You don't need to nuke Russia, you only need to nuke Moscow.
> 
> Moscow is Russia for all intents, and purposes.
> 
> Russia is more centralised than UK, Japan, or Thailand.
> 
> The capital region is pretty much a city-state, and the rest of Russia acts as a colonial territory.
> 
> View attachment 845548
> 
> 
> In Russia, most of the country is wooden sticks except for Moscow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *How countries die?*
> 
> Really, look no further than Iraq.
> 
> It's supposedly a functioning state, but de-facto it's anything, but a state.
> 
> I really believe USA tried, and tried really hard to preserve Iraq's statehood, but in the end "the medical science can transplant a heart today, but brain death is still irreversible"


*Tsar Bomba* 50, 100 and more Megaton.. effects on different cities from Google Earth​Every major power is aware of the response though..
















The SARMAT/SATAN II have warheads capable of doing factional bombing.. Putin said that was the answer to Global Prompt Strike - an American system of rapid fatal strikes that smashes one third of all Russia's nuclear forces in just 55 minutes. And for Russia to kneel down like that and say that it no longer has the strength to strike back..

*The “Fractional Orbital Bombardment System” or FOBS.. to deliver thermonuclear bombs via a low-trajectory, low-visibility route.*

Both superpowers contemplated the deployment of nuclear weapons in space. However, Moscow did more than contemplate. During the 1960s, the USSR had an operational system ready to go into orbit to attack the United States.

This weapon was a combined low-flying missile and nuclear warhead. It was designed to take off from the Soviet Union and de-orbit for an attack. Most importantly, it would not fly over the Arctic to reach US territory. It would, rather, traverse southern polar areas and reach the US via the “backdoor.”

The superpower space competition heated up with the Soviet Union’s successful Oct. 4, 1957, launch of Sputnik. In those days, the mere act of putting an object into orbit was a major achievement. It didn’t take very long for both sides to start worrying about missiles equipped with doomsday payloads.

For several years afterward, Moscow had the lead. Soviet premier Nikita Khrushchev boasted of his country’s superiority in space. On Aug. 9, 1961, Khrushchev bragged, “You [the Americans] do not have 50- or 100-megaton bombs; we have bombs more powerful than 100 megatons. We placed [cosmonauts] in space, and we can replace them with other loads that can be directed to any place on Earth.”

No one had any doubt that the Kremlin leader was talking about nuclear weapons.

In the ensuing years, both the US and USSR spent considerable energy monitoring the nuclear capabilities of the other. To detect incoming Soviet ICBMs, the US developed both ground- and space-based early warning systems.

FOBS certainly was not a precision weapon. Its circular error probable (the radius of a circle within which at least 50 percent of the warheads would be expected to hit) was more than three miles. Therefore, FOBS wouldn’t be used to destroy hardened ICBM silos or other protected sites requiring a direct hit.

Instead, US strategic planners and policy-makers thought FOBS would be used as a pathfinder. The system could be used to take out numerous command and control centers around Washington, D.C.—the White House, Pentagon, and so forth.

The idea was that effective use of FOBS might well rob the US of its capacity to carry out a launch-under-attack counter-strike which would be possible if a Soviet attack were detected soon enough.

The FOBS threat didn’t last long. Soon, Soviet designers were developing advanced submarine-launched ballistic missiles to equip its undersea vessels. SLBMs emerged as an even stealthier way to launch a disarming strike on the United States.

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MAY 19​May 19, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF
*
Kateryna Stepanenko, Karolina Hird, and Frederick W. Kagan
May 19, 5:30 pm ET*​*Ukrainian military officials reported that some Russian troops withdrawn from the Kharkiv City axis have redeployed to western Donetsk Oblast on May 19.* The Ukrainian General Staff said that 260 servicemen withdrawn from the Kharkiv City axis arrived to replace the significant combat losses that the 107th Motorized Rifle Battalion has taken approximately 20 km southwest of Donetsk City.[1] The Ukrainian Military Directorate (GUR) intercepted a Russian serviceman’s call suggesting that some of the 400 servicemen from the Kharkiv City axis who had arrived elsewhere in Donbas were shocked by the intensity of the fighting there compared with what they had experienced in Kharkiv Oblast.[2]
*Russian forces are continuing to suffer shortages of reserve manpower, causing the Russian military command to consolidate depleted battalion tactical groups (BTGs). *An unnamed US defense official reported that Russian forces still have 106 BTGs operating in Ukraine but had to disband and combine some to compensate for losses.[3] Ukrainian General Staff Main Operations Deputy Chief Oleksiy Gromov reported that Russian forces are combining units of the Pacific and Northern Fleets at the permanent locations of the 40th Separate Marine Brigade and the 200th Separate Motorized Rifle Brigade, respectively.[4] Gromov added that Russian forces are training servicemen in Krasnodar Krai to replenish units of the 49th Combined Arms Army and are trying to restore combat power of Russian units withdrawn from the battlefront in occupied Crimea.
*Unknown Russian perpetrators conducted a series of Molotov cocktail attacks on Russian military commissariats throughout the country in May, likely in protest of covert mobilization. *Russian media and local Telegram channels reported deliberate acts of arson against military commissariats in three Moscow Oblast settlements—Omsk, Volgograd, Ryazan Oblast, and Khanty-Mansi Autonomous District—between May 4 and May 18.[5] Ukrainian General Staff Main Operations Deputy Chief Oleksiy Gromov said that there were at least 12 cases of deliberate arson against military commissariats in total and five last week.[6] Russian officials caught two 16-year-olds in the act in one Moscow Oblast settlement, which suggests that Russian citizens are likely responsible for the attacks on military commissariats.[7]
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces are intensifying operations to advance north and west of Popasna in preparation for an offensive toward Severodonetsk.*
*Russian and proxy authorities in Mariupol are struggling to establish coherent administrative control of the city.*
*Russian forces reportedly attempted to regain control of the settlements they lost during the Ukrainian counteroffensive north of Kharkiv City.*
*Russian forces are bolstering their naval presence around Snake Island to fortify their grouping on the island.*
*

*
*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.
ISW has updated its assessment of the four primary efforts Russian forces are engaged in at this time. We have stopped coverage of supporting effort 4, “Sumy and northeastern Ukraine,” because it is no longer an active effort.*

Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate main effort- Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
Supporting effort 1—Mariupol; 
Supporting effort 2—Kharkiv City;
Supporting effort 3—Southern axis.
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces unsuccessfully attempted to resume offensive operations southwest of Izyum and did not advance in the Slovyansk or Lyman directions on May 19.[8] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces suffered significant losses and retreated after a failed assault on Velyka Komyshuvakha approximately 23 km southwest of Izyum.[9] Ukrainian General Staff Main Operations Deputy Chief Oleksiy Gromov said that Russian forces are resuming the Slovyansk offensive despite the loss of offensive capabilities.[10] Ukrainian artillery struck Russian electronic warfare (EW) equipment 7 km from Izyum on May 18.[11]
Russian forces intensified efforts to advance north and west of Popasna in preparation for the Battle of Severodonetsk. Ukrainian officials reported that Russian forces conducted several unsuccessful assaults in settlements leading to the Lysychansk and Bahmut highways near Popasna.[12] The Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) claimed to have encircled Ukrainian troops in Zolote and Hirske, approximately 12 and 14 km northeast of Popasna, respectively.[13] ISW cannot independently confirm this LNR claim. Russian forces also attempted to break Ukrainian defenses west and east of Avdiivka without any success and maintained heavy shelling in the area.[14]
Russian troops have begun operating at a company scale rather than at the level of a BTG to focus on seizing specific villages in Donbas, according to US officials.[15] An unnamed US defense official also noted that Russian forces are still facing challenges in coordinating communication between commanders and synchronizing artillery fire in supporting ground assaults.[16] ISW previously reported that some Russian military bloggers criticized the Russian reconnaissance-strike complex due to its excessively centralized approval system for artillery fire.[17] A pro-Russian military Telegram channel criticized the current Russian strategy, claiming that Russian forces are hitting a “strategic dead end” and are suffering significant losses trying to slowly capture small villages in different directions.[18]



*Supporting Effort #1—Mariupol (Russian objective: Capture Mariupol and reduce the Ukrainian defenders)*
Russian and proxy occupation authorities in Mariupol reportedly struggled to establish coherent administrative control of the city on May 19. Advisor to the Mayor of Mariupol Petro Andyrushchenko claimed that authorities in Mariupol who are collaborating with Russian occupiers do not report to the leadership of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) and instead are being guided by the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB). [19] Andryushchenko additionally stated that the Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) will become the only “independent” political organ of Russia due to the way DNR officials are imposing their occupational agendas on Mariupol.[20] Andryushchenko noted that Head of the DNR Denis Pushilin has commanded elements of the police corps currently stationed in Mariupol to move to other areas in Donetsk to respond to riots caused by “an internal struggle of political clans.”[21] While ISW cannot independently confirm Andryushchenko’s claims, they are consistent with the overall lack of coherency in the implementation of occupation agendas by Russian and DNR authorities alike.
Factional infighting between proxy authorities in Mariupol is likely being exacerbated by the ongoing evacuation of Ukrainian defenders from the Azovstal Steel Plant. Pro-Russian Telegram channels complained that Russian forces are removing wounded Russian servicemen from hospitals in the DNR to treat wounded Ukrainian soldiers who were recently evacuated from Azovstal.[22] If confirmed, these reports indicate a continued lack of consistency in the way Russian and proxy authorities are handling the evacuation of Ukrainian forces from Azovstal and the overall capture of Mariupol.



*Supporting Effort #2—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces focused on maintaining their positions north of Kharkiv City to prevent further Ukrainian advances on May 19.[23] The Ukrainian General Staff noted that Russian troops conducted unspecified and unsuccessful counterattacks in an attempt to restore lost positions around Kharkiv City.[24] Deputy Chief of the Main Operations Department of the Ukrainian General Staff Brigadier General Oleksiy Gromov reported that the Ukrainian counteroffensive in northern Kharkiv Oblast has liberated 23 settlements since May 5, but did not name the settlements.[25] Russian troops continued to conduct artillery attacks on Ukrainian positions and suburban settlements around Kharkiv City.[26]



*Supporting Effort #3—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces did not make any confirmed advances on the southern axis and shelled along the frontline on May 19.[27] Russian forces conducted artillery attacks against Kherson, Zaporizhia, Dnipropetrovsk, and Mykolaiv Oblasts.[28] Unidentified partisans reportedly blew up a Russian armored train in Melitopol and damaged two railway tracks and a locomotive with ten fuel tanks.[29] Russian forces are continuing to fortify their grouping on Snake Island with two warship detachments and cruise missiles.[30] The situation in Transnistria remains unchanged.



*Immediate items to watch*

Russian forces will likely complete their withdrawal from the vicinity of Kharkiv City but attempt to hold a line west of Vovchansk to defend their GLOCs from Belgorod to Izyum. It is unclear if they will succeed.
The Russians will continue efforts to encircle Severodonetsk and Lysychansk at least from the south, possibly by focusing on cutting off the last highway connecting Severodonetsk-Lysychansk with the rest of Ukraine.


----------



## Oldman1

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It is not workable because there would be no agreement on #Donbas. Zelensky/Ukraine refused to implement Minsk II agreement that gave autonomy to the Russian-speaking East. Instead, they opted for a military solution and did everything they could to subdue these communities. This is what triggered Russia's entry into the war.
> 
> Second, allowing Ukraine to enter EU means they'll be part of the collective EU security - meaning any conflict between Ukraine and Russia would be one that is between Russia and the whole of EU that will also bring direct NATO's involvement. The "Neutral" status mentioned in that proposal is just a lip service.
> 
> On Crimea, I doubt Russia is willing to renegotiate on this important island.
> 
> To sum it up, that is not a workable solution. Any plan that doesn't recognize the independence of Russian-speaking East in Ukraine (or aka #Donbas) is dead on arrival.


Yeah wouldn't work since Russia still wants to landlock Ukraine by taking Odessa as well, not to mention Kharkiv which they are still trying right now. Ukrainians won't allow that.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527419864926806018

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527428286023974912


----------



## The SC

Sweden's Prime Minister announces, in the presence of US President Joe Biden, that her country has submitted a formal application to join NATO after 200 years of military neutrality, in circumstances she described as "reminding us of the darkest times of Europe."


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527358247178424322

Just combine them for this purpose and context..


----------



## Nuclear Clown

Wergeland said:


> Youre saying France will nuke Russia if Russia attackes Finland? What makes you believe the French are dumb?
> 
> If you wanna play the nuke game there is really one nation that has enough of them to destroy Russia, and that is The USA. Russia would of course retaliate and destroy USA too.
> In fact Russia has enough nukes to totally destroy France and UK, which are the only nuclear powers in Europe. But neither of them have enoug nukes to destroy Russia completley.


Now I did some humour, let's speak more seriously :
ru*SSi*an na*Z*is threaten the whole EU with their crackers.. 
NATO is too pussy about nuclear sharing : there are only 100 outdated B61 gravity bombs. *Thanks to Vladolf Putler, EU bought weapons for the 1st time... Why stopping with these? 
Time for an EU nuclear sharing starting with 500 ASMPA-R*




It'd only cost €9 billions, the EU can absolutely pay for these. The ASMPA-R is very nice, it's a bit like the P-800 Oniks in performances except it's 300 kilotons instead of 200kt and it weights 900kg instead of 2500, so any tactical aircraft can carry several, moreover, MBDA can make a conventional version too...
500 would just be a start. These would be mainly deployed at EU borders with "unfriendly" countries, e.g. in Cyprus, Greece, Baltic states, Poland, Finland, Sweden, Bulgaria, Ukraine but other countries can have nukes too, then apply a double key system, and, let's suppose Putler deploys his turds in Kaliningrad or his orcs at the border of an EU state, we release the keys to those concerned 

I also advocate the EU to enforce a 2% of GDP military spending for all member states, at the same time, I also advocate that the difference between actual budgets and the 2% goes to the EU in order to purchase EU-made gear for everybody, especially those not able to afford on their own. 
This would mean a cumulated budget of about $360 billions with about $120-140bn going to the EU...
For example, we have areas with some gaps in combat aircraft, especially at our marches with Mordor or Isengard




Therefore, EU should consider the purchase of 60 Rafale squadrons and 60 Gripen squadrons, with at least the M88 in 100kN non-afterburner version for Rafale. I think that a "rafalized" version of Gripen-F would be perfect: the room for the 2nd seat would allow Rafale's full combat systems, the M88 is so small that it will allow to stuff at least a ton of additional internal fuel. Safran says they can deliver a 115kN afterburner version into 18 months, here we have the replacement for the F-16s/Mirage-2000...
I also want such kind of racks for Meteor/MICA-NG




So any weapon station can carry either 1 or 2 Meteor/MICA-NG on each side and 3 additional under a TER.
This would allow a Rafale-C/B to carry up to 39 Meteors and 9 MICA-NG at once, and there should be enough to wipe out a huge coalition of the 10 biggest non-EU air forces in a single sweep 
We surely can modify the ASMPA-R as a carrier for MICA-IR or MICA-NG/IR, maybe Meteor so it can engage tankers, AWACS, bombers at insane distances at the contrary, we should also consider some super cheap stuff that can be carried in huge numbers to deal with drone swarms. 

Then, it seems that we're not taken seriously so... The MdCN warhead can accommodate 1 megaton, the SCALP-EG up to 1.8 megaton, let's have 500 of each... 
We're also lacking submarines... A Triomphant-class costs €3.1bn








Triomphant-class submarine - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




Let's order 10, so there will be 14 in the EU => 2240 MIRVs in 224 M51.3 SLBMs
The M51 SLBM is of 2.3m diameter. the MdCN can be launched from submarines in a cannister fitting in standard 533mm torpedo tube... Therefore, 13 of these should be able to fit instead of a M51.3... We should consider also 10 Triomphant-class SSGNs.
Then, thanks to the new generation of Siemens nuclear turbines, you get 60% efficiency instead of 35%... This means that a Scorpène https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorpène-class_submarine
would only need a small 10MWth reactor to pack the same horsepower and 20MWth to double this... And the cost per ship shouldn't exceed €500M, moreover, with no need for fuel, it must be feasible to have more than 18 torpedoes/ASM/cruise missiles onboard... 
Adding 60 of these to EU fleets should be OK...

When it comes to air defences, the SAMP/T-NG is better than S-300/400/500, Patriot and THAAD while Israeli Arrow-3 is better than RIM-161D block.II or A235, moreover, block.2 is designed to deal with things like the Avantgard MARV, Kh-47, Zirkon, etc, while even "old" Asters can deal with a Mach3 Oniks/Brahmos even at 6ft altitude with a 98.5% kill ratio for a single interceptor... And if Israel needed Boeing to fund Arrow-3 so they can't sell without US approval, my 2cts Arrow-4 can be made with Arianespace/EU. I bet that some booster coming from Ariane would allow mid-course interception with much better success than the GMD... IMHO, considering IAI prices and reusing some old Ariane designs, we surely can pack 4 interceptors for any Russian, Chinese, NoKo ICBM/SLBM/IRBM, we also need something to shoot down satellites even in MEO...

OK, Vladolf Putler wants to do some nuclear sabre-rattling? Uncle-Xi is into a freaking arms buildup? Let's start a little arms race... We may even do stuff the Yankees wouldn't, e.g. selling ASMPA-R in both nuclear and conventional versions and Rafale to Taiwan so they have something allowing them to sink anything between SoKo and Singapore... 200 Rafales are technically able to carry up to 7800 Meteors in a heavy air superiority config, they can operate from small roads, let's make Taiwan having PRC by the b*lls

Zelenskiy is right : democracy shall not be less armed than tyranny... The EU has played it too nice, thanks to utopists like Merkel, Schroeder, etc... Russia has switched to Nazism into 3 months and dares to threaten EU countries... alright, Putin is a 2nd rate Hitler, Xi sees himself as an Hideki x Stalin and ErdoGollum is acting like Mussolini...
And make no mistakes, I'm not against NATO but if Gollum doesn't goes in June, I think we should consider suspending Turkey until it's a democracy again and in order to introduce Finland, Sweden and until Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, Cyprus join too. I think that we're too many to allow a veto from a single country, it should be upgraded to 3 and moreover, the center of gravity should shift to Europe, let's say around Strasbourg, just at the German/French border... 

I think that we should allow a single embassy in Europe to some entities like Russia, PRC, USA and they should only be allowed to interact with the EU, not with member-states.

I think some would hate such a program... And considering who they are, it'd be the best reason to put something like that in place.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## wahhab0202

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527213855276945408


They'd better do it real quick. Not very nice to see millions of people die from hunger while you bunch of food to help them.


----------



## Oldman1

wahhab0202 said:


> They'd better do it real quick. Not very nice to see millions of people die from hunger while you bunch of food to help them.


The Russians would have to lift the blockade.


----------



## wahhab0202

Raffie said:


> Now I did some humour, let's speak more seriously :
> ru*SSi*an na*Z*is threaten the whole EU with their crackers..
> NATO is too pussy about nuclear sharing : there are only 100 outdated B61 gravity bombs. *Thanks to Vladolf Putler, EU bought weapons for the 1st time... Why stopping with these?
> Time for an EU nuclear sharing starting with 500 ASMPA-R*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It'd only cost €9 billions, the EU can absolutely pay for these. The ASMPA-R is very nice, it's a bit like the P-800 Oniks in performances except it's 300 kilotons instead of 200kt and it weights 900kg instead of 2500, so any tactical aircraft can carry several, moreover, MBDA can make a conventional version too...
> 500 would just be a start. These would be mainly deployed at EU borders with "unfriendly" countries, e.g. in Cyprus, Greece, Baltic states, Poland, Finland, Sweden, Bulgaria, Ukraine but other countries can have nukes too, then apply a double key system, and, let's suppose Putler deploys his turds in Kaliningrad or his orcs at the border of an EU state, we release the keys to those concerned
> 
> I also advocate the EU to enforce a 2% of GDP military spending for all member states, at the same time, I also advocate that the difference between actual budgets and the 2% goes to the EU in order to purchase EU-made gear for everybody, especially those not able to afford on their own.
> This would mean a cumulated budget of about $360 billions with about $120-140bn going to the EU...
> For example, we have areas with some gaps in combat aircraft, especially at our marches with Mordor or Isengard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Therefore, EU should consider the purchase of 60 Rafale squadrons and 60 Gripen squadrons, with at least the M88 in 100kN non-afterburner version for Rafale. I think that a "rafalized" version of Gripen-F would be perfect: the room for the 2nd seat would allow Rafale's full combat systems, the M88 is so small that it will allow to stuff at least a ton of additional internal fuel. Safran says they can deliver a 115kN afterburner version into 18 months, here we have the replacement for the F-16s/Mirage-2000...
> I also want such kind of racks for Meteor/MICA-NG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So any weapon station can carry either 1 or 2 Meteor/MICA-NG on each side and 3 additional under a TER.
> This would allow a Rafale-C/B to carry up to 39 Meteors and 9 MICA-NG at once, and there should be enough to wipe out a huge coalition of the 10 biggest non-EU air forces in a single sweep
> We surely can modify the ASMPA-R as a carrier for MICA-IR or MICA-NG/IR, maybe Meteor so it can engage tankers, AWACS, bombers at insane distances at the contrary, we should also consider some super cheap stuff that can be carried in huge numbers to deal with drone swarms.
> 
> Then, it seems that we're not taken seriously so... The MdCN warhead can accommodate 1 megaton, the SCALP-EG up to 1.8 megaton, let's have 500 of each...
> We're also lacking submarines... A Triomphant-class costs €3.1bn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Triomphant-class submarine - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's order 10, so there will be 14 in the EU => 2240 MIRVs in 224 M51.3 SLBMs
> The M51 SLBM is of 2.3m diameter. the MdCN can be launched from submarines in a cannister fitting in standard 533mm torpedo tube... Therefore, 13 of these should be able to fit instead of a M51.3... We should consider also 10 Triomphant-class SSGNs.
> Then, thanks to the new generation of Siemens nuclear turbines, you get 60% efficiency instead of 35%... This means that a Scorpène https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorpène-class_submarine
> would only need a small 10MWth reactor to pack the same horsepower and 20MWth to double this... And the cost per ship shouldn't exceed €500M, moreover, with no need for fuel, it must be feasible to have more than 18 torpedoes/ASM/cruise missiles onboard...
> Adding 60 of these to EU fleets should be OK...
> 
> When it comes to air defences, the SAMP/T-NG is better than S-300/400/500, Patriot and THAAD while Israeli Arrow-3 is better than RIM-161D block.II or A235, moreover, block.2 is designed to deal with things like the Avantgard MARV, Kh-47, Zirkon, etc, while even "old" Asters can deal with a Mach3 Oniks/Brahmos even at 6ft altitude with a 98.5% kill ratio for a single interceptor... And if Israel needed Boeing to fund Arrow-3 so they can't sell without US approval, my 2cts Arrow-4 can be made with Arianespace/EU. I bet that some booster coming from Ariane would allow mid-course interception with much better success than the GMD... IMHO, considering IAI prices and reusing some old Ariane designs, we surely can pack 4 interceptors for any Russian, Chinese, NoKo ICBM/SLBM/IRBM, we also need something to shoot down satellites even in MEO...
> 
> OK, Vladolf Putler wants to do some nuclear sabre-rattling? Uncle-Xi is into a freaking arms buildup? Let's start a little arms race... We may even do stuff the Yankees wouldn't, e.g. selling ASMPA-R in both nuclear and conventional versions and Rafale to Taiwan so they have something allowing them to sink anything between SoKo and Singapore... 200 Rafales are technically able to carry up to 7800 Meteors in a heavy air superiority config, they can operate from small roads, let's make Taiwan having PRC by the b*lls
> 
> Zelenskiy is right : democracy shall not be less armed than tyranny... The EU has played it too nice, thanks to utopists like Merkel, Schroeder, etc... Russia has switched to Nazism into 3 months and dares to threaten EU countries... alright, Putin is a 2nd rate Hitler, Xi sees himself as an Hideki x Stalin and ErdoGollum is acting like Mussolini...
> And make no mistakes, I'm not against NATO but if Gollum doesn't goes in June, I think we should consider suspending Turkey until it's a democracy again and in order to introduce Finland, Sweden and until Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, Cyprus join too. I think that we're too many to allow a veto from a single country, it should be upgraded to 3 and moreover, the center of gravity should shift to Europe, let's say around Strasbourg, just at the German/French border...
> 
> I think that we should allow a single embassy in Europe to some entities like Russia, PRC, USA and they should only be allowed to interact with the EU, not with member-states.
> 
> I think some would hate such a program... And considering who they are, it'd be the best reason to put something like that in place.


You probably right on all the things you mentioned on the above post. But calling Russian nukes as fire cracker??? A few of them could wipe whole western Europe, and Russia doesn't posses a few but bunch.



Oldman1 said:


> The Russians would have to lift the blockade.


Which blockade? Why would they have to? Russia has many ports for their wheat shipment to reach Africa, middle east and south east Asia.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

TruthSeeker said:


> RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MAY 19​May 19, 2022 - Press ISW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Download the PDF
> 
> *Kateryna Stepanenko, Karolina Hird, and Frederick W. Kagan
> May 19, 5:30 pm ET*​*Ukrainian military officials reported that some Russian troops withdrawn from the Kharkiv City axis have redeployed to western Donetsk Oblast on May 19.* The Ukrainian General Staff said that 260 servicemen withdrawn from the Kharkiv City axis arrived to replace the significant combat losses that the 107th Motorized Rifle Battalion has taken approximately 20 km southwest of Donetsk City.[1] The Ukrainian Military Directorate (GUR) intercepted a Russian serviceman’s call suggesting that some of the 400 servicemen from the Kharkiv City axis who had arrived elsewhere in Donbas were shocked by the intensity of the fighting there compared with what they had experienced in Kharkiv Oblast.[2]
> *Russian forces are continuing to suffer shortages of reserve manpower, causing the Russian military command to consolidate depleted battalion tactical groups (BTGs). *An unnamed US defense official reported that Russian forces still have 106 BTGs operating in Ukraine but had to disband and combine some to compensate for losses.[3] Ukrainian General Staff Main Operations Deputy Chief Oleksiy Gromov reported that Russian forces are combining units of the Pacific and Northern Fleets at the permanent locations of the 40th Separate Marine Brigade and the 200th Separate Motorized Rifle Brigade, respectively.[4] Gromov added that Russian forces are training servicemen in Krasnodar Krai to replenish units of the 49th Combined Arms Army and are trying to restore combat power of Russian units withdrawn from the battlefront in occupied Crimea.
> *Unknown Russian perpetrators conducted a series of Molotov cocktail attacks on Russian military commissariats throughout the country in May, likely in protest of covert mobilization. *Russian media and local Telegram channels reported deliberate acts of arson against military commissariats in three Moscow Oblast settlements—Omsk, Volgograd, Ryazan Oblast, and Khanty-Mansi Autonomous District—between May 4 and May 18.[5] Ukrainian General Staff Main Operations Deputy Chief Oleksiy Gromov said that there were at least 12 cases of deliberate arson against military commissariats in total and five last week.[6] Russian officials caught two 16-year-olds in the act in one Moscow Oblast settlement, which suggests that Russian citizens are likely responsible for the attacks on military commissariats.[7]
> *Key Takeaways*
> 
> *Russian forces are intensifying operations to advance north and west of Popasna in preparation for an offensive toward Severodonetsk.*
> *Russian and proxy authorities in Mariupol are struggling to establish coherent administrative control of the city.*
> *Russian forces reportedly attempted to regain control of the settlements they lost during the Ukrainian counteroffensive north of Kharkiv City.*
> *Russian forces are bolstering their naval presence around Snake Island to fortify their grouping on the island.*
> *
> 
> *
> *We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.
> ISW has updated its assessment of the four primary efforts Russian forces are engaged in at this time. We have stopped coverage of supporting effort 4, “Sumy and northeastern Ukraine,” because it is no longer an active effort.*
> 
> Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
> Subordinate main effort- Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
> Supporting effort 1—Mariupol;
> Supporting effort 2—Kharkiv City;
> Supporting effort 3—Southern axis.
> *Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
> Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
> Russian forces unsuccessfully attempted to resume offensive operations southwest of Izyum and did not advance in the Slovyansk or Lyman directions on May 19.[8] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces suffered significant losses and retreated after a failed assault on Velyka Komyshuvakha approximately 23 km southwest of Izyum.[9] Ukrainian General Staff Main Operations Deputy Chief Oleksiy Gromov said that Russian forces are resuming the Slovyansk offensive despite the loss of offensive capabilities.[10] Ukrainian artillery struck Russian electronic warfare (EW) equipment 7 km from Izyum on May 18.[11]
> Russian forces intensified efforts to advance north and west of Popasna in preparation for the Battle of Severodonetsk. Ukrainian officials reported that Russian forces conducted several unsuccessful assaults in settlements leading to the Lysychansk and Bahmut highways near Popasna.[12] The Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) claimed to have encircled Ukrainian troops in Zolote and Hirske, approximately 12 and 14 km northeast of Popasna, respectively.[13] ISW cannot independently confirm this LNR claim. Russian forces also attempted to break Ukrainian defenses west and east of Avdiivka without any success and maintained heavy shelling in the area.[14]
> Russian troops have begun operating at a company scale rather than at the level of a BTG to focus on seizing specific villages in Donbas, according to US officials.[15] An unnamed US defense official also noted that Russian forces are still facing challenges in coordinating communication between commanders and synchronizing artillery fire in supporting ground assaults.[16] ISW previously reported that some Russian military bloggers criticized the Russian reconnaissance-strike complex due to its excessively centralized approval system for artillery fire.[17] A pro-Russian military Telegram channel criticized the current Russian strategy, claiming that Russian forces are hitting a “strategic dead end” and are suffering significant losses trying to slowly capture small villages in different directions.[18]
> 
> 
> 
> *Supporting Effort #1—Mariupol (Russian objective: Capture Mariupol and reduce the Ukrainian defenders)*
> Russian and proxy occupation authorities in Mariupol reportedly struggled to establish coherent administrative control of the city on May 19. Advisor to the Mayor of Mariupol Petro Andyrushchenko claimed that authorities in Mariupol who are collaborating with Russian occupiers do not report to the leadership of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) and instead are being guided by the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB). [19] Andryushchenko additionally stated that the Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) will become the only “independent” political organ of Russia due to the way DNR officials are imposing their occupational agendas on Mariupol.[20] Andryushchenko noted that Head of the DNR Denis Pushilin has commanded elements of the police corps currently stationed in Mariupol to move to other areas in Donetsk to respond to riots caused by “an internal struggle of political clans.”[21] While ISW cannot independently confirm Andryushchenko’s claims, they are consistent with the overall lack of coherency in the implementation of occupation agendas by Russian and DNR authorities alike.
> Factional infighting between proxy authorities in Mariupol is likely being exacerbated by the ongoing evacuation of Ukrainian defenders from the Azovstal Steel Plant. Pro-Russian Telegram channels complained that Russian forces are removing wounded Russian servicemen from hospitals in the DNR to treat wounded Ukrainian soldiers who were recently evacuated from Azovstal.[22] If confirmed, these reports indicate a continued lack of consistency in the way Russian and proxy authorities are handling the evacuation of Ukrainian forces from Azovstal and the overall capture of Mariupol.
> 
> 
> 
> *Supporting Effort #2—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
> Russian forces focused on maintaining their positions north of Kharkiv City to prevent further Ukrainian advances on May 19.[23] The Ukrainian General Staff noted that Russian troops conducted unspecified and unsuccessful counterattacks in an attempt to restore lost positions around Kharkiv City.[24] Deputy Chief of the Main Operations Department of the Ukrainian General Staff Brigadier General Oleksiy Gromov reported that the Ukrainian counteroffensive in northern Kharkiv Oblast has liberated 23 settlements since May 5, but did not name the settlements.[25] Russian troops continued to conduct artillery attacks on Ukrainian positions and suburban settlements around Kharkiv City.[26]
> 
> 
> 
> *Supporting Effort #3—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
> Russian forces did not make any confirmed advances on the southern axis and shelled along the frontline on May 19.[27] Russian forces conducted artillery attacks against Kherson, Zaporizhia, Dnipropetrovsk, and Mykolaiv Oblasts.[28] Unidentified partisans reportedly blew up a Russian armored train in Melitopol and damaged two railway tracks and a locomotive with ten fuel tanks.[29] Russian forces are continuing to fortify their grouping on Snake Island with two warship detachments and cruise missiles.[30] The situation in Transnistria remains unchanged.
> 
> 
> 
> *Immediate items to watch*
> 
> Russian forces will likely complete their withdrawal from the vicinity of Kharkiv City but attempt to hold a line west of Vovchansk to defend their GLOCs from Belgorod to Izyum. It is unclear if they will succeed.
> The Russians will continue efforts to encircle Severodonetsk and Lysychansk at least from the south, possibly by focusing on cutting off the last highway connecting Severodonetsk-Lysychansk with the rest of Ukraine.




This is all you need to know about the ISW (Institute for the Study of War) 👇 These Neo-conservatives are leading the regime change campaign against Russia.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527488073839386624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527487172680491012


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527470370739130368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527155745917177858

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## Apollon

Wergeland said:


> Youre saying France will nuke Russia if Russia attackes Finland? What makes you believe the French are dumb?
> 
> If you wanna play the nuke game there is really one nation that has enough of them to destroy Russia, and that is The USA. Russia would of course retaliate and destroy USA too.
> In fact Russia has enough nukes to totally destroy France and UK, which are the only nuclear powers in Europe. But neither of them have enoug nukes to destroy Russia completley.



French are part of NATO and EU. 


And no, you only need two nukes to destroy russia. St Petersburg and Moscow. The rest is completly irrelevant. 

On a sidenote, Germany is a nuclear power too. It did chose nuclear latency but could build any form of nuclear weapon in a matter of days.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527398457258168321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527403658903691265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527413137137356809


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527444297939042304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527371852498325505

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## jamahir

Viet said:


> He is so angry. He will beat the neighbors’ dogs, and steal them washing machine. After that he will accuse them of fascism.



But he's right though. Please watch it again. 



StraightEdge said:


> Zelensky is making millions.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526651333712936960



Bloody thief ! Just like his NATO government masters, stealing from their people and investing it on the militaries.



Apollon said:


> As i said you dont get it. This is not US war, this is our war. Putin is a facist who dreams about an eurasian empire. Its better to slaughter them in Ukraine then here.
> 
> 
> We will have peace when we have crippled them beyond repair.



So why don't you collaborate with Russia to have a Eurasian... not Russian empire but a massive, Jupiter-size common progressive political, social and socio-economic system that runs from Vladivostok to Lison ? Disconnect from the Anglo countries at least politically and socio-economically including from Britain.



RoadAmerica said:


> Both sides lie, that’s why I’m here. Sometimes I just like to point out the hypocrites



Please point to the post where you have pointed to NATO hypocrites.

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## RescueRanger

So is Putin still searching for that Wunderwaffe that will save his “special operation”? 
​

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> But he's right though. Please watch it again.
> 
> 
> 
> Bloody thief ! Just like his NATO government masters, stealing from their people and investing it on the militaries.
> 
> 
> 
> So why don't you collaborate with Russia to have a Eurasian... not Russian empire but a massive, Jupiter-size common progressive political, social and socio-economic system that runs from Vladivostok to Lison ? Disconnect from the Anglo countries at least politically and socio-economically including from Britain.
> 
> 
> 
> Please point to the post where you have pointed to NATO hypocrites.



I like your satire. Fun fact for you. Russia is a poor hellhole with weak economy smaller than the city of munich. Russia is barbaric , poor and backwarded.


USA is Europes biggest tradepartner and they are culturally closest to us.



So you suggest we break with our own, break with our biggest tradepartner to bond with a gigantic Nigeria with snow?


Sorry but no. 


I have an better Idea. Kill as much russian personal in Ukraine as possible and cut all ties permanent.

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## DF41

Get ready for 4 to 5 times more evacuations than that from Mariupol 

 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527463499550674951

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## RescueRanger

Apollon said:


> I like your satire. Fun fact for you. Russia is a poor hellhole with weak economy smaller than the city of munich. Russia is barbaric , poor and backwarded.
> 
> 
> USA is Europes biggest tradepartner and they are culturally closest to us.
> 
> 
> 
> So you suggest we break with our own, break with our biggest tradepartner to bond with a gigantic Nigeria with snow?
> 
> 
> Sorry but no.
> 
> 
> I have an better Idea. Kill as much russian personal in Ukraine as possible and cut all ties permanent.


Once this war is over Russia will be another third world backwater. Putin really buggered his country and people.

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> I like your satire. Fun fact for you. Russia is a poor hellhole with weak economy smaller than the city of munich. Russia is barbaric , poor and backwarded.



When Munich was part of West Germany it wasn't "greatly rich" Munich helping out various countries and progressive movements and individuals in technology, trade and education, it was the USSR which Russia was the initiator of.



Apollon said:


> USA is Europes biggest tradepartner and they are culturally closest to us.



Europe is just under the boot of the USA government. And what cultural closeness ? Mindless pop music and mindless action films ? You can disconnect but retain educational and technological relations.



Apollon said:


> So you suggest we break with our own, break with our biggest tradepartner to bond with a gigantic Nigeria with snow?
> 
> 
> Sorry but no.



Nigeria is not the critical part of the International Space Station.



Apollon said:


> I have an better Idea. Kill as much russian personal in Ukraine as possible and cut all ties permanent.



You have much violence.


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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527494045240541184
The military leadership demonstrated by Ukraine

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Few weeks, they better get started learning then, we don't know how long this war will be, can't assume its going to be over before Ukrainians start learning.
> 
> Hence why I suggested they put in locations that's far from Russian controlled territory and protect more vital assets like in Western Ukraine like Odessa and Lviv and other locations. Why else Russians keep lobbing cruise missiles there. Or maybe China can provide their SAM system just like they delivered to Serbia. But I kid on that one.



It wouldn't be useful if they were deployed in the rear, I mean, how often Russian bomb Lviv or Kyiv and how much damage it can cause?

As far as I understand, if I were to run the battlefield, everything that got thrown into the frontline take priority, Maybe when they stabilise the Front on Donbass, they may consider that.

I mean, you are taking soldier off the line and train with those system, Ukrainian situation is improved since Feb 24, but by no mean they are stable. They can't really afford to send troop into training if that have not much to no contribution to the front.......



Oldman1 said:


> True, maybe even help build their Neptune missiles besides their artillery. focus on breaking that blockade as well as making a land attack version of the Neptune. Should help increase the range. Also don't know if Poland or other countries can build SAMs like the S-300 besides radar and missiles to replace those fired or destroyed.



At this stage, they needed all the weapon they can get their hand on to fend off the Russian, it would be months if not years before they can start looking at JV in defence tech.

If they do, I think they will get German or UK or even American tech, but probably not now.



Oldman1 said:


> I was more referring to having trucks and vans than more about people that can drive them. The Ukrainian troops need constantly supplies for defending as well as launching counter offensive.


Trucks are easy, you need people who know what to do and where to direct the supplies into the front line, otherwise what happened to the russian will happen to the Ukrainian. (Remember that 40 miles convoy?)


You can get Trucks or Vans just about anywhere, there were UK groups and Polish group that bought second hand trucks or transit van and donate them into Ukraine. But then they can't bring in people who know their stuff regarding logistic, it is another battle to deal with the massive logistic

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> When Munich was part of West Germany it wasn't "greatly rich" Munich helping out various countries and progressive movements and individuals in technology, trade and education, it was the USSR which Russia was the initiator of.
> 
> 
> 
> Europe is just under the boot of the USA government. And what cultural closeness ? Mindless pop music and mindless action films ? You can disconnect but retain educational and technological relations.
> 
> 
> 
> Nigeria is not the critical part of the International Space Station.
> 
> 
> 
> You have much violence.



I ask again, you suggest Europe disconnects with its biggest tradepartner to join an empire of dirt? Well we are 550 million, have highest living standards of any continent and you propably would love to see us dragged into the dirt (aka russia).


As for culture, USA is european by heritage. Its democratic system, believe system, art and science is based on europe. 



So after thinking about it...hmmm nope i still think its better to kill as much russian troops in Ukraine as possible. 


Let them suffer buddy. 









Im proud that we use our economic power to deliver any weapon Ukraine needs. As German chancellor Scholz said: Russia will not win this. 


Let them suffer and they do suffer dearly.


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## Chen Jie

gambit said:


> Here is the real deal...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do we import Russian (and other foreign) oil when we have a lot of it in the U.S.?
> 
> 
> The way U.S. oil refineries are set up has a lot to do with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.marketplace.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When oil refiners talk about crude, they generally ask two questions. First: How easy is it to break up the hydrocarbons to produce, say, gasoline or jet fuel? (In oil speak: How light is it?) Second: How much sulfur is in the oil? If there isn’t much, it’s called sweet crude.​​“Higher sulfur content, more sour crudes actually are cheaper to purchase,” said Hugh Daigle, associate professor of petroleum engineering at the University of Texas at Austin.​​That’s because they take longer to process and need specialized refining equipment. *This cheap, lower-quality crude comes from Canada, Venezuela and Russia,* among other spots. Back in the late 1990s and early 2000s, it was the product U.S. refiners were buying.​
> See the highlighted? Back when China was buying oil from Venezuela, Chavez even offered to pay for the shipping cost. It was a great deal for China. But after Chinese tankers were loaded, they sailed to Texas and offloaded the high sulfur Venezuelan crude to US refiners. China bought from Venezuela at a discount, including the shipping cost subsidized by Venezuela, then sold the Venezuelan crude to America for cheap. Then the Chinese tankers sailed somewhere else and picked up more oil to transport. Loser: Venezuela.


Let me explain to you Economics, oil in the ground is just dirt if not extracted and sold. We helped them bypass sanctions and US is happy buying from us as middle men. You think they don't know it was Venezuelan oil. The same goes for Russian oil, you think Europe doesn't know they are buying Russian oil? Don't be naive.

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## StraightEdge

The "evacuation" as per western media. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527492560268181513
Here's Mr. Zelensky testing the limits of re-calibrating words infront of western media. 

Russians With Attitude on Twitter: "Zelensky: "The evacuation mission from Azovstal continues. It is led by our military and intelligence." Uhhh... They're being brought to prisons in Donetsk and Rostov in paddy wagons... https://t.co/OIJ9GWe2l1" / Twitter

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## Apollon

StraightEdge said:


> The "evacuation" as per western media.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527492560268181513
> Here's Mr. Zelensky testing the limits of re-calibrating words infront of western media.
> 
> Russians With Attitude on Twitter: "Zelensky: "The evacuation mission from Azovstal continues. It is led by our military and intelligence." Uhhh... They're being brought to prisons in Donetsk and Rostov in paddy wagons... https://t.co/OIJ9GWe2l1" / Twitter



You know Russia lost the war when it took 3 months to take a factory, suffered catastrophic losses by catching that factory and now celebrates it.


Russia is truely falling faster and faster

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## StraightEdge

The resident EU troll is here, if he had IQ higher than the room temperature, I'd have replied him. Just not in the mood to feed the troll.

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## Vergennes

LMAO


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527366592668938250

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527243589310455808

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## gambit

Chen Jie said:


> Let me explain to you Economics, oil in the ground is just dirt if not extracted and sold. We helped them bypass sanctions and US is happy buying from us as middle men. You think they don't know it was Venezuelan oil. The same goes for Russian oil, you think Europe doesn't know they are buying Russian oil? Don't be naive.


Let me explain to you about realpolitik: China *WILL* screw Russia over just like Venezuela.

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## Constantin84

StraightEdge said:


> The resident EU troll is here, if he had IQ higher than the room temperature, I'd have replied him. Just not in the mood to feed the troll.


The only low IQ amoeba are guys like you who see a victory in Russia s inability to defeat a country without a modern AF,AD network, navy,etc,even after 3 months of slugging it out.

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## kingQamaR

gambit said:


> Let me explain to you about realpolitik: China *WILL* screw Russia over just like Venezuela.



China has tentacles in everything? The UK and the USA also have their tentacles in everything. That's how a global economy works


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## Apollon

StraightEdge said:


> The resident EU troll is here, if he had IQ higher than the room temperature, I'd have replied him. Just not in the mood to feed the troll.



At least you are amusing. Come on and tell us too how Europe should cut ties with its allies and biggest economic trade partners and embrace putinist lala-land that is so weak, that it needs 3 months to take over a steel mill.


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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527548903163322368

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## OldTwilight

gambit said:


> Let me explain to you about realpolitik: China *WILL* screw Russia over just like Venezuela.



China is not better than the western when it come to use some country weakness for their own advantage ... if they grow bigger than what they are now, probably they will be even worst than the westerns ....



Apollon said:


> You know Russia lost the war when it took 3 months to take a factory, suffered catastrophic losses by catching that factory and now celebrates it.
> 
> *
> Russia is truely falling faster and faster*



if they had this kind of mentality , they would give up when the Nazi army was at door step of Moscow in WWII ...

They are not artifical country like most of European country , so they wont fall ... even if they lose in this war , this is nothing compare to their long history ....



Constantin84 said:


> The only low IQ amoeba are guys like you who see a victory in Russia s inability to defeat a country without a modern AF,AD network, navy,etc,even after 3 months of slugging it out.



well , Ukrain had best of ATMs and they had good air force and anti air defense network ... Their army was stronger than most of European countries with greater number of military device and military personnel ... and they knew Russian mentality equipment and tactics as well ...

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527564800041140226

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## Paul2

OldTwilight said:


> Their army was stronger than most of European countries with greater number of military device and military personnel ... and they knew Russian mentality equipment and tactics as well ...



Absolutely. How many EU states have armies with 200000 frontline troops?

TIP: There are none.

That's why I was saying, if 10 field armies knocked on, say, Germany's front door, they would've soiled their pants very fast.

Airforce will not do much if there is simply physically not enough a2g munitions in EU air forces.


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## Constantin84

Paul2 said:


> Absolutely. How many EU states have armies with 200000 frontline troops?
> 
> TIP: zero...


True.....but, a potent AF,would more than compensate for that. Imagine this current Russian force trying to advance against an enemy with atleast 100 modern fighter jets (F16,Rafales, EF or Gripens)....bloodbath...nevermind against 2-300 fighter jets....plus, EU soldiers are all professionals, which is a difference from a guy recruited 2 months ago.
That being said, the need for a larger number of military prepared men has been noticed....hence the new Teritorial Defence Force in Poland, and a new part time volunteer force created in Romania



OldTwilight said:


> China is not better than the western when it come to use some country weakness for their own advantage ... if they grow bigger than what they are now, probably they will be even worst than the westerns ....
> 
> 
> 
> if they had this kind of mentality , they would give up when the Nazi army was at door step of Moscow in WWII ...
> 
> They are not artifical country like most of European country , so they wont fall ... even if they lose in this war , this is nothing compare to their long history ....
> 
> 
> 
> well , Ukrain had best of ATMs and they had good air force and anti air defense network ... Their army was stronger than most of European countries with greater number of military device and military personnel ... and they knew Russian mentality equipment and tactics as well ...


The Russians should have obliterated them from the air, and the rest should have been a mopping operation.See the 2 Iraqi wars,the Afghan invasion.
Saddam had 1 million men in 1990.....

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## khansaheeb

Constantin84 said:


> It doesn't matter if they'll win or not,.A powerful military would have ended the conventional war with Ukraine in 2 weeks . No matter what happens from now on,Russia lost allready


Same fantasy that saw NATO defeated in Afghanistan.

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## OldTwilight

Paul2 said:


> Absolutely. How many EU states have armies with 200000 frontline troops?
> 
> TIP: There are none.
> 
> That's why I was saying, if 10 field armies knocked on, say, Germany's front door, they would've soiled their pants very fast.
> 
> Airforce will not do much if there is simply physically not enough a2g munitions in EU air forces.



in first week of war , most of air port close to front lines will get targeted and by attacking on fuel storage and fuel refinery , the effectiveness of air force will get limited ... 

probably only USA due decades of spending on air logistic , aerial refueling , air reconencase , EW and smart weapons and having air base all around the world have capacity to use it air force effectively in all out war ... 
Even USA will has problem if those airports and their aircraft carriers get hit by their enemy , that why they spend 1 trillion dollar on F35 program ... 

And this is not like Ukraine vs Russia , it is more like UK and Nato vs Russia ... NATO is sending weapons , mercenaries , intelligence , put economic blockade ...



Constantin84 said:


> True.....but, a potent AF,would more than compensate for that. Imagine this current Russian force trying to advance against an enemy with atleast 100 modern fighter jets (F16,Rafales, EF or Gripens)....bloodbath...nevermind against 2-300 fighter jets....plus, EU soldiers are all professionals, which is a difference from a guy recruited 2 months ago.
> That being said, the need for a larger number of military prepared men has been noticed....hence the new Teritorial Defence Force in Poland, and a new part time volunteer force created in Romania
> 
> 
> The Russians should have obliterated them from the air, and the rest should have been a mopping operation.See the 2 Iraqi wars,the Afghan invasion.
> Saddam had 1 million men in 1990.....


Saddam army was used to fight with restricted army like Iran and the western knew everything about Iraq army .... 

although USA did use new kind of battle tactics and strategies which Iraqis has no idea about it and simply fell in first strike ...


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## Constantin84

khansaheeb said:


> Same fantasy that saw NATO defeated in Afghanistan.


NATO won the conventional war in Afghanistan in a matter of days. I'm not talking about the guerrilla war afterwards but the actual conventional one, just like the one in Ukraine. 
I hope that you know the difference between a conventional and a guerrilla war. Russia is in a conventional war with Ukraine.



OldTwilight said:


> in first week of war , most of air port close to front lines will get targeted and by attacking on fuel storage and fuel refinery , the effectiveness of air force will get limited ...
> 
> probably only USA due decades of spending on air logistic , aerial refueling , air reconencase , EW and smart weapons and having air base all around the world have capacity to use it air force effectively in all out war ...
> Even USA will has problem if those airports and their aircraft carriers get hit by their enemy , that why they spend 1 trillion dollar on F35 program ...
> 
> And this is not like Ukraine vs Russia , it is more like UK and Nato vs Russia ... NATO is sending weapons , mercenaries , intelligence , put economic blockade ...
> 
> 
> Saddam army was used to fight with restricted army like Iran and the western knew everything about Iraq army ....
> 
> although USA did use new kind of battle tactics and strategies which Iraqis has no idea about it and simply fell in first strike ...


The Russian attack showed us once more that cruise missile attacks are not the vaunted magic weapon to destroy airports, key installations and air forces on the ground.

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## khansaheeb

Constantin84 said:


> NATO won the conventional war in Afghanistan in a matter of days. I'm not talking about the guerrilla war afterwards but the actual conventional one, just like the one in Ukraine.
> I hope that you know the difference between a conventional and a guerrilla war. Russia is in a conventional war with Ukraine.


Depends on your definition of won. Is achieving an overall goal victory or achieving a partial goal?

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## Wergeland

Raffie said:


> You don't get what the 3rd gen stealth that was mounted onboard the M51.3 SLBM is!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it simply absorbs ANY type of radar waves, including from OTHRs like the 29B6 Konteyner. It's in service since June 2020 for the M51 missile. Rafale F4 receives this too and so will the ASN4G hypersonic nuclear cruise missile...
> So, what happens? No detection from where it comes before the MIRVs are released... This is no 200 seconds warning, it's 20 to 30s and it's a bit too late to order retaliations in case of first strike... Moreover, go figure who launched, how it did happened... Who knows, it may even be launched from Iranian territorial waters, some unloaded missiles with stealth off may even be launched towards Israel and USA : you just need to read Khamenei's Twitter to conclude he's totally bonkers...
> With such a tool, we can absolutely play dirty.
> 
> Moreover, France LIES about its nuclear stockpile, I'm well placed to know this: the public is only told about the peace-time "active" nukes : this means those ready to be launched 24/7/365 in retaliation for a surprise attack, so this means the 2 SSBNs that are permanently at sea with 16 M51.3 SLBMs, each having 10 MIRVs...
> Following Popovs' nuclear threats, guess what? The 4 subs are at sea and the ASMPA-R Mach-3 ALCMs have been deployed... Aren't there some Rafales in the Baltic states? ASMP ranged 300km+, ASMPA ranged 500km+, ASMPA-R has seen its range extended (likely 750-800km now) and, how funny, France did another test on March 23rd 2022...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then, you know, there is no need to fully destroy Russia!!! The 3 quarters of the country are near empty :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you know, with 640 MIRVs and 58 ALCMs, knowing that the French ones are often confused with neutron-bombs due to enhanced radiation effect that implies that the lethality is multiplied by 10, so, e.g. a 100 kt will send ad patres as much ppl as if it was an 1 megaton one, except that instead of being immediately wiped out by the thermal effect, they will suffer a slow and painful death by ARS while survivors will be slowly eaten by cancer... It's even nastier is case of surface blast as the ground materials that are neutron-activated will be way more radio-active, in case of surface blast, the fallouts would look like Chernobyl's Red Forrest in May 1986, except this intensity would spread to about 5000km²+ for a 100kt and to 10,000km²+ for a 300kt while you can double-triple the area for the edge of 1 rad/h zone. Pay a visit to Pripyat and the guide will tell you to move away from the area when it barely radiates 0.05 rad/h. OK, at 1 rad/h you would only start to puke and defecate in your pants after a week, you'll only be a castrated zombie after 2 weeks and reach a lethal dose after a month, and, any way, even at 0.1rad/h, the area is FUBAR...
> Now you surely know that in order to please the ecologists, French govt. publishes nuclear dismantlement, don't you? Take the Hades which was similar to the Iskander, except there were two per TEL and the TEL looked like a normal truck:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 23 June 1997 the last of the Hadès missiles was destroyed... Now, if all the cold war IRBMs on the Plateau d'Albion etc, were dismantled, I've NEVER read about the dismantlement of the 452 Cold War era city-buster warheads between 800 kt and 1.2 Mt, but one thing for sure : the 250kg payload of the MdCN is enough for 1 megaton, the 450kg payload of the SCALP is enough for 1.8 megaton
> 
> So, you know, it makes no difference if Russia can fully destroy the UK, France or the USA: the only difference is that Russians will die slowly, first symptoms will be a headache like they never had, then diarrhea and puking and I prefer not speaking about further effects of ARS, so, you know what? I definitively prefer being at the receiving end of the Tsar-Bomba than by a TNO (Tête Nucléaire Océanique) or by a TNA (Tête Nucléaire Aéroportée) and not being wiped out due to the rather moderate yield and the even less destructive surface burst, because I know about the totally insane levels of radiations and fallouts that will be released...
> 
> Then, some more fun : Map of French NPPs:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Near all French NPPs have 4x 3817 MWth reactors, sometimes only two... In Chernobyl, there were 4x 3200 MWth reactors and only one was blown up... Just nuke the area where I live, get 4.77x the Chernobyl disaster as a special prize  I can tell you that the Chernobyl fallouts did their world tour several times, just like Céline Dion
> Moreover, EDF owns the biggest stockpile of enriched uranium, and this is not including the 30t+ of mil-grade plutonium which is assuredly stored in a military facility... My 2 cts that if these end in a nuke's fireball, there won't be any need for these to reach the critical mass to detonate, you know, same effect as a thermonuclear when you have a double flash  Now I can't tell about the exact effect but with such a quantity, the only thing that is certain, it'd make the Tsar Bomba look like a joke, so... maybe...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's something dumber than nuking Russia : it's nuking France because it's the most nuclear country on the planet...
> 
> And, another point for fun? Ever heard about the CERN https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN
> You surely know that it's the #1 antimatter production + storage facility and that they allegdly have already opened two tiny wormholes for short time, but, IDK if it's still on their Facebook page,, but there once was this in the pictures...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some feared they may create a blackhole by accident while using the LHC. They said it can't happen as an accident, they didn't said that it can't happen at all... And the LHC is dug enough deep to withstand direct nuke blasts, so, you know, Putler can have as many nukes he wants
> 
> Why limiting yourself at destroying Russia when you can do a nicer fireworks?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Frankly? Who wants to live in Mordor with a Putler (or uncle-Xi) posing as Sauron and with orcs everywhere?



Keeep the stupid kindergarten propganda for yourself. Go and play Xbox or watch Star Strek or something.

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## Constantin84

khansaheeb said:


> Depends on your definition of won. Is achieving an overall goal victory or achieving a partial goal?


As I've said....the CONVENTIONAL war was won in days.

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## Corax

Apollon said:


> As i said you dont get it. This is not US war, this is our war. Putin is a facist who dreams about an eurasian empire. Its better to slaughter them in Ukraine then here.
> 
> 
> We will have peace when we have crippled them beyond repair.



No Putin doesn't want Eurasian empire, he's not that stupid. You're too gullible to believe the US puppet Zelensky.

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## khansaheeb

Constantin84 said:


> As I've said....the CONVENTIONAL war was won in days.


A battles were won and not the war.

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## reflecthofgeismar

khansaheeb said:


> Same fantasy that saw NATO defeated in Afghanistan.


Always this BS.
"Defeated".
NO one, not even god, could have stopped US military personal from executing every Afghan man and selling the women to slave markets.
Taliban are there because they (US/others) didn't kill the Afghans and pathetic ANA didn't fought vs Taliban, except the SpecOps.
But when 5-10% of the force are taking 90% of the fights, what do you expect.
As next u wanna tell me that Iraqi insurgents crushed US military.
Same for Palestinians.
The Jews could round up every non jewish Arab and kill them in under a month, IF THEY WANTED to and the West would be THAT bad (as always portrayed) to support THAT.

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## khansaheeb

reflecthofgeismar said:


> Always this BS.
> "Defeated".
> NO one, not even god, could have stopped US military personal from executing every Afghan man and selling the women to slave markets.
> Taliban are there because they (US/others) didn't kill the Afghans and pathetic ANA didn't fought vs Taliban, except the SpecOps.
> But when 5-10% of the force are taking 90% of the fights, what do you expect.
> As next u wanna tell me that Iraqi insurgents crushed US military.
> Same for Palestinians.
> The Jews could round up every non jewish Arab and kill them in under a month, IF THEY WANTED to and the West would be THAT bad (as always portrayed) to support THAT.


You are truly out of it, do you think that Germany wasn't defeated in the second world war?









US dropped record number of bombs on Afghanistan last year


Warplanes dropped 7,423 bombs and other munitions, the most since Pentagon began keeping track in 2006




www.theguardian.com




Take it to a new thread if you want to discuss US/NATO defeat in Afghanistan:-








US 'lost' the 20-year war in Afghanistan: top US general - France 24


US 'lost' the 20-year war in Afghanistan: top US general




www.france24.com

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## Constantin84

reflecthofgeismar said:


> Always this BS.
> "Defeated".
> NO one, not even god, could have stopped US military personal from executing every Afghan man and selling the women to slave markets.
> Taliban are there because they (US/others) didn't kill the Afghans and pathetic ANA didn't fought vs Taliban, except the SpecOps.
> But when 5-10% of the force are taking 90% of the fights, what do you expect.
> As next u wanna tell me that Iraqi insurgents crushed US military.
> Same for Palestinians.
> The Jews could round up every non jewish Arab and kill them in under a month, IF THEY WANTED to and the West would be THAT bad (as always portrayed) to support THAT.


Actually, Israel is the only state currently fighting the insurgency the way it should be fought. Clamping down hard on the civilians from which the terrorists are coming from,isolating the hostile population in camps,behind scrutinised walls.
They are successful ,that's why the crocodile tears from their enemies. The US was unwilling to herd all the Afghans in concentration camps and cleanse them from their ideological trappings....so they couldn't win.Israel doesn't give a shit,shoots first,asks questions later. See that Palestinian journalist who got killed lately.

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## Vergennes

Constantin84 said:


> As I've said....the CONVENTIONAL war was won in days.



Low IQs here can't make difference between conventional and unconventional warfare.

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## DF41

Constantin84 said:


> NATO won the conventional war in Afghanistan in a matter of days. I'm not talking about the guerrilla war afterwards but the




Might as well say Japan won Pacific war when TORA TORA TORA was carried out successfully






And Hitler won when evacuation at Dunkirk was forced on Brits






And USA won the Iraq war and unsee how it ended













People care how it ended.

And not give a flying ph**k to the beginning  

And rotten despicable USA was kicked out of Afghanistan and humiliated out of Afghanistan and shamed out of Afghanistan

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## Brainsucker

Vergennes said:


> Low IQs here can't make difference between conventional and unconventional warfare.


Forgive me, but the low IQ is the one who think that conventional and unconventional warfare still matter when Russia is in direct war against NATO. When they enter a direct war against each others, it will directly going to nuclear. Russia may perished, but the same fate also happen to European and US. They may survived. But at that time, They will become the poorest nations in the world.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527366311252090885

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527391011223261186

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527420527937298433

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## khansaheeb

Vergennes said:


> Low IQs here can't make difference between conventional and unconventional warfare.


Low IQ never run out of distorted excuses

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## reflecthofgeismar

khansaheeb said:


> You are truly out of it, do you think that Germany wasn't defeated in the second world war?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US dropped record number of bombs on Afghanistan last year
> 
> 
> Warplanes dropped 7,423 bombs and other munitions, the most since Pentagon began keeping track in 2006
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take it to a new thread if you want to discuss US/NATO defeat in Afghanistan:-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US 'lost' the 20-year war in Afghanistan: top US general - France 24
> 
> 
> US 'lost' the 20-year war in Afghanistan: top US general
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.france24.com



I never said that Germany wasn't defeated.
But that's conventional REAL war. Look where Germany is today.
Same goes for Japan, South Korea and even Vietnam which will have 25 generations gene defects in a high percentage.
But they aren't shitholes anymore like the "typical" countries who even had better/several Marshall Plans to better conditions...
Not short symetric phase bc of a weak enemy (like Taliban) and then a insurgency where the much stronger part has to fight with both hands behind his back.
*Today pervert "Liberalism", same lying "liberal" media which pushes for the colonial skirmishes in the first instance and make propaganda for the ordinary people so they support these useless "humanitarian" ops.*

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## Vergennes

Russian marines convoy obliterated


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527607994313322496


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## RoadAmerica

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527360850259939337
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527367615982645251


What a load of bs, just like the Russian economy growing.


----------



## Apollon

Corax said:


> No Putin doesn't want Eurasian empire, he's not that stupid. You're too gullible to believe the US puppet Zelensky.



Putler openly said it Lissabon to Vladivostok. 

His Empire of dirt can go to hell. We will never cooperate with his disgusting regime in any way. Its better to grill them in Ukraine.

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## RoadAmerica

jamahir said:


> But he's right though. Please watch it again.
> 
> 
> 
> Bloody thief ! Just like his NATO government masters, stealing from their people and investing it on the militaries.
> 
> 
> 
> So why don't you collaborate with Russia to have a Eurasian... not Russian empire but a massive, Jupiter-size common progressive political, social and socio-economic system that runs from Vladivostok to Lison ? Disconnect from the Anglo countries at least politically and socio-economically including from Britain.
> 
> 
> 
> Please point to the post where you have pointed to NATO hypocrites.


Ha let’s start with yours. Like all leaders aren’t thieves? Putin so probably the biggest and please don’t forget poo bear. 🐻


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527621779128213504

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## RoadAmerica

DF41 said:


> Might as well say Japan won Pacific war when TORA TORA TORA was carried out successfully
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Hitler won when evacuation at Dunkirk was forced on Brits
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And USA won the Iraq war and unsee how it ended
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People care how it ended.
> 
> And not give a flying ph**k to the beginning
> 
> And rotten despicable USA was kicked out of Afghanistan and humiliated out of Afghanistan and shamed out of Afghanistan


😂



Brainsucker said:


> Forgive me, but the low IQ is the one who think that conventional and unconventional warfare still matter when Russia is in direct war against NATO. When they enter a direct war against each others, it will directly going to nuclear. Russia may perished, but the same fate also happen to European and US. They may survived. But at that time, They will become the poorest nations in the world.


Why does everyone say if nato entered the war it would go nuclear? I can guarantee you if the war spread to nato it would not go nuclear. 
That just tells me the Putin fan boys know he lost already. He can’t win so he’ll erase all of humanity


----------



## BHAN85

Constantin84 said:


> Actually, Israel is the only state currently fighting the insurgency the way it should be fought. Clamping down hard on the civilians from which the terrorists are coming from,isolating the hostile population in camps,behind scrutinised walls.
> They are successful ,that's why the crocodile tears from their enemies. The US was unwilling to herd all the Afghans in concentration camps and cleanse them from their ideological trappings....so they couldn't win.Israel doesn't give a shit,shoots first,asks questions later. See that Palestinian journalist who got killed lately.



Israel is a failure, war and terror next to your border is always a failure, no matter if you win and you kill more than the enemy.

The successful way to dominate is the American way, giving bribes and changing ruling elite will.

You can see that in unworthy East European countries ruling elites who obbey the USA/Brussels master for money in a peaceful way, meanwhile the common Eastern European people sink in porverty and misery.

Do you know why Romanian women are famous here in Spain? That's European Union: Prostitution of ruling elite and common people, make anything for money, and suck dicks to the master with more money.

It was a more worthy life for Eastern Europe under Soviet rule.

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> I ask again, you suggest Europe disconnects with its biggest tradepartner to join an empire of dirt? Well we are 550 million, have highest living standards of any continent and you propably would love to see us dragged into the dirt (aka russia)



Homeless in London, the biggest city in "highest living standards" Europe :









London again. This fashionable female just walking by a homeless person, either callously or helplessly :




The above picture comes from this article from 2018 :


> (CNN) The number of homeless people in Britain is soaring by more than 1,000 a month, and reached a total of 320,000 in the first quarter of this year, according to research released Thursday by homelessness charity Shelter.
> 
> The charity's report reveals that roughly one in every 200 Britons were sleeping on the streets or in temporary accommodation in the first quarter, with an increase of 13,000 individuals -- a 4% rise -- over the second quarter of 2017.
> 
> The worst affected region is London, with a total of 167,853 people classed as homeless, or roughly one in every 53 people. Outside the capital, the cities of Brighton on England's south coast (one in 67), Birmingham in the West Midlands (one in 73) and Manchester in the north of England (one in every 135) are also particularly affected by the crisis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The number of homeless people in Britain has risen by 13,000 in the past year.
> 
> The largest increase in homelessness in England was seen in the West Midlands, Yorkshire and Humber and the northwest.
> 
> Newham in east London was ranked as England's worst local authority for housing insecurity, with a total of 14,611 residents being classed as homeless, or roughly one in 24 people.
> 
> The surge in homelessness is is the result of a "perfect storm of spiralling rents, welfare cuts and a total lack of social housing," Shelter Chief Executive Polly Neate said.
> "It's unforgivable that 320,000 people in Britain have been swept up by the housing crisis and now have no place to call home. These new figures show that homelessness is having a devastating impact on the lives of people right across the country," she added.
> 
> She warned that the UK needs to take "action now" in order to improve the situation for the hundreds of thousands of people who will be "blighted by homelessness this winter."
> 
> Shelter has launched an urgent appeal, calling on the public to support its frontline services this winter to help the charity deal with the growing number of people facing housing insecurity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Telli Afrik and his family are currently living in their sixth hostel after being unable to afford their privately rented home.
> 
> "Shelter's services have never been more needed," Neate said. "That's why we're asking the public to support us this winter so that we can answer as many calls as possible and have trained advisers on hand when people need them most."
> 
> Telli Afrik, who lives in temporary accommodation in the London borough of Waltham Forest with his wife and two children, aged 3 and 5, said he was forced out of his privately rented home because he could no longer afford the rent.
> 
> "At first, we were fortunate because we went to live with my aunt," he said, according to a news release supplied by Shelter. "But not long after we moved in, she died of a heart attack and the council took the house back. We were made homeless instantly. I sobbed that night, all of us were in tears."
> 
> The family are currently living in their sixth hostel, where they all sleep in one room and eat their meals on the floor. Afrik described the hostel as "cramped" and said his family is "at breaking point."
> 
> Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government James Brokenshire said in response to Shelter's report that the government is determined to end homelessness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One in every 53 people living in London is homeless, according to figures published by Shelter.
> 
> "No one should be left without a roof over their head, which is why we are determined to end rough sleeping and respond to the causes of homelessness," Brokenshire said.
> 
> "Our rough-sleeping strategy, support for councils and those working on the front line are helping to get people off the street and into accommodation as we enter the colder winter months.
> 
> "But we know that there is more that we need to do and we're committed to working with Shelter and others to make a positive difference on this important issue."
> In particular, he noted that the government is committed to building new homes through an $11 billion affordable housing program, and to empowering councils to borrow more money to build a "new generation" of low-cost housing.


So Britain is a place in "highest living standards" Europe where people are driven out of "council houses" or houses rented for money and thus have to become homeless but the same Britain participates in the invasion of the Libyan Jamahiriya to overthrow the system which provided free housing to all citizens and where there were no homeless ?  Ditto with North Korea.

Homeless in another "highest living standards" European country France which is the world's publicly-known third-largest keeper of nuclear warheads but won't spend on giving free homes to its citizens :












The last picture is from this article from 2021 and speaks of the homeless people dying on the streets of France :


> A homeless crisis decades in the making leaves hundreds of French dying on the streets.​Paris marked a grim milestone last week when a homeless 50-year-old man was found dead on the streets. This was the 119th death of the year in the city, which has seen victims ranging from 80 years old to infants as young as four die on the streets.
> 
> The Collective of the Dead on the Street is a charity keeping a count of the number of homeless people passing away on the streets of France. This year alone, the organisation’s grim list puts the number of dead at 439, although it believes this is an undercount.
> 
> The most recent death drew condemnation from a local politician who described the news as “sad” and called on central authorities to open emergency shelters for families who sleep outside.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the many camps in which the homeless congregate. ()
> 
> In March of this year, The Collective paid tribute to the homeless people who died in 2020, which numbered more than 535. They did this by producing 535 videos that told the individual stories of those who died.
> 
> The number of people who die on the streets of France has risen steeply in the last 20 years. In 2002 official figures put the numbers at 88 deaths in the whole of France. By 2007 the numbers had increased to 199.
> 
> As a global financial crisis battered France in 2008, deaths jumped to 383. Since 2014, it has averaged more than 500 every year.
> 
> In recent years, the number of homeless people in France - one of Europe’s most advanced economies - has ballooned to more than 200,000, which represents an increase of over 50 percent in the last 15 years. More than 30,000 of those are minors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A homeless man hugs his dog as he sits along a deserted street on March 18, 2020. (AFP)
> 
> The plight of homeless people in France is an expression of a wider housing problem throughout the country. By some accounts this has left more than 3.6 million people either deprived of a home, living in overcrowded accommodations, or reduced to a situation of precarious occupation.
> 
> In 2017 French President Emmanual Macron announced that there would be no one left on the streets within six months.
> 
> “The first battle: to house everyone with dignity. By the end of the year, I no longer want anyone in the streets, in the woods,” he triumphantly proclaimed shortly after assuming the presidency.
> 
> As the Covid-19 pandemic has battered France and Macron’s presidency has been blighted by protests, that goal has long since been forgotten.
> 
> Yet France’s homeless woes are not a result of a lack of housing. According to a recent study, out of the 37 million homes in the country, more than 3 million are vacant, which is more than ten times the number of homeless people.
> 
> As winter fast approaches and Covid-19 restrictions start to kick in, local authorities are trying to introduce emergency measures to temporarily house the homeless in a bid to reduce deaths and hospitalisations.



European government leaders should shut up about the fake massacre in Bucha or whatever happened there and look at preventing the mass deaths of the homeless and of other citizens in their own showcase cities *in Europe*.

Lastly, the notorious Banlieue concrete slums of Paris whose oppressive, multi-storey, unaesthetic and unscientific structure creates discontent and crime :











Apollon said:


> As for culture, USA is european by heritage. Its democratic system, believe system, art and science is based on europe.



USA is not a democracy but an illusion of democracy, as does Britain where much of its system originates. I have already tagged you in this post in December last year about what is a democracy, what is not, the origin of Democracy ( your own Greece ) and an article's section describing some of how in practice true democracy was implemented in the modern world ( the Libyan Jamahiriya ) and on this basis neither is USA a democracy nor Europe.



Apollon said:


> Let them suffer buddy.



My commiserations and salute to this man whatever his name is.



StraightEdge said:


> The "evacuation" as per western media.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527492560268181513Here's Mr. Zelensky testing the limits of re-calibrating words infront of western media.



I liked this comment :


> Dennis Amandla
> @newdennis
> ·
> 2h
> 
> Replying to @TIME
> The mainstream media completely changed the meaning of SURRENDER and redefined it as EVACUATION. One wonders what MSM is going to call Azov Battalion leadership still holed up in the Avostal mill. Just don’t call them DIPLOMATS





StraightEdge said:


> Russians With Attitude on Twitter: "Zelensky: "The evacuation mission from Azovstal continues. It is led by our military and intelligence." Uhhh... They're being brought to prisons in Donetsk and Rostov in paddy wagons... https://t.co/OIJ9GWe2l1" / Twitter





Ah, Zelensky the thief, the liar, the dancer in heels, the Nazi, the war criminal, the genocider... A man for all seasons our man.

Apollon @Vergennes @F-22Raptor @Get Ya Wig Split @Wood @mmr @Constantin84 @Messerschmitt, this is the idiot you spend your days and nights for ? 



RoadAmerica said:


> Ha let’s start with yours.



Mine what ? OK, Putin and Russia said that Ukraine government, military and society has Nazis embedded so Ukraine needs a deNazification. Isn't that true ?



RoadAmerica said:


> Like all leaders aren’t thieves? Putin so probably the biggest and please don’t forget poo bear. 🐻



Putin is much less of a thief than NATO governments. For example please see those pictures above of poor homeless people in Europe. Their governments don't use the national resources to provide them high-quality free houses in nice neighborhoods and instead the resources are spent needlessly on the militaris especially when the militaries happen to be imperialist.

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## SalarHaqq

A.P. Richelieu said:


> A White Phosporus Smoke Shell is NEVER an Incendiary Weapon.
> That is explicitly stated in the treaty.
> The treaty does not even mention White Phosphorus.



Incorrect, and ironically the ICRC itself, whose website you referenced, confirms this:

https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/resources/documents/interview/weapons-interview-170109.htm

In the words of Peter Herby, head of the ICRC's Arms Unit in a 2009 interview:






White phosphorous can be an incendiary weapon indeed as explicitly stated by the ICRC, and when it is, it will be regulated by legal provisions governing the use of such weapons. Meaning that lobbing white phosphorous over areas with a concentration of civilians = *war crime*, unless there is a very clear and ostensible physical separation between said civilians and the military assets targeted by the white phosphorous. 

End of story.

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Homeless in London, the biggest city in "highest living standards" Europe :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> London again. This fashionable female just walking by a homeless person, either callously or helplessly :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The above picture comes from this article from 2018 :
> 
> So Britain is a place in "highest living standards" Europe where people are driven out of "council houses" or houses rented for money and thus have to become homeless but the same Britain participates in the invasion of the Libyan Jamahiriya to overthrow the system which provided free housing to all citizens and where there were no homeless ?  Ditto with North Korea.
> 
> Homeless in another "highest living standards" European country France which is the world's publicly-known third-largest keeper of nuclear warheads but won't spend on giving free homes to its citizens :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The last picture is from this article from 2021 and speaks of the homeless people dying on the streets of France :
> 
> 
> European government leaders should shut up about the fake massacre in Bucha or whatever happened there and look at preventing the mass deaths of the homeless and of other citizens in their own showcase cities *in Europe*.
> 
> Lastly, the notorious Banlieue concrete slums of Paris whose oppressive, multi-storey, unaesthetic and unscientific structure creates discontent and crime :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USA is not a democracy but an illusion of democracy, as does Britain where much of its system originates. I have already tagged you in this post in December last year about what is a democracy, what is not, the origin of Democracy ( your own Greece ) and an article's section describing some of how in practice true democracy was implemented in the modern world ( the Libyan Jamahiriya ) and on this basis neither is USA a democracy nor Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> My commiserations and salute to this man whatever his name is.
> 
> 
> 
> I liked this comment :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, Zelensky the thief, the liar, the dancer in heels, the Nazi, the war criminal, the genocider... A man for all seasons our man.
> 
> Apollon @Vergennes @F-22Raptor @Get Ya Wig Split @Wood @mmr @Constantin84 @Messerschmitt, this is the idiot you spend your days and nights for ?
> 
> 
> 
> Mine what ? OK, Putin and Russia said that Ukraine government, military and society has Nazis embedded so Ukraine needs a deNazification. Isn't that true ?
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is much less of a thief than NATO governments. For example please see those pictures above of poor homeless people in Europe. Their governments don't use the national resources to provide them high-quality free houses in nice neighborhoods and instead the resources are spent needlessly on the militaris especially when the militaries happen to be imperialist.



An ukrainian buddy has the upper jaw of a russian as trophy. Crazy what you find there.


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> An ukrainian buddy has the upper jaw of a russian as trophy. Crazy what you find there.



So why are you still friends with this Ukrainian ?


----------



## Soldier35

A soldier of Ukraine spoke about the catastrophic state of affairs at the front and the consequences of Russian artillery strikes and the Grad MLRS in Ukraine. The combat work of the MLRS "Grad" of Russia in Ukraine and the story of a serviceman of the Armed Forces of Ukraine further in the video. A short translation of the Ukrainian soldier's speech about the situation at the front. “The strikes of Russian artillery and the Grad MLRS go exactly where they need to, everything is in smoke, everything is constantly under fire, everything is destroyed, the trenches are broken, there is constant shelling, there is no support for Ukrainian artillery yet, they have been shelling for three days already, there is no reaction from Ukrainian artillery everything is falling apart"






Supplies of Western weapons to Ukraine are in full swing. Dutch tracked armored vehicles YPR-765 were spotted in Ukraine without regular weapons. The YPR-765 armored personnel carrier was developed in the USA in 1970 on the basis of the M113 armored personnel carrier. The Pentagon was not interested in it and the license for its production was sold to the Netherlands. The YPR-765 BMP delivered to Ukraine turned out to be without a turret with an automatic cannon and without a paired machine gun.

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> So why are you still friends with this Ukrainian ?



He collects and sells fossils. Usually devonian fish. He send me a pic of the jaw, has it in plastic bag and i think its cool. That russian criminal did obviously bite more off than he could chew 😁👍


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> So why are you still friends with this Ukrainian ?





Spoiler: Russian fragments












Crazy is, that the streets are littered with this. Looks like they do not just burn inside when the turret cooks off, but get ripped apart.

@Foinikas look, a new relique.


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## DF41

Soldier35 said:


> A soldier of Ukraine spoke about the catastrophic state of affairs at the front and the consequences of Russian artillery strikes and the Grad MLRS in Ukraine. The combat work of the MLRS "Grad" of Russia in Ukraine and the story of a serviceman of the Armed Forces of Ukraine further in the video. A short translation of the Ukrainian soldier's speech about the situation at the front. “The strikes of Russian artillery and the Grad MLRS go exactly where they need to, everything is in smoke, everything is constantly under fire, everything is destroyed, the trenches are broken, there is constant shelling, there is no support for Ukrainian artillery yet, they have been shelling for three days already, there is no reaction from Ukrainian artillery everything is falling apart"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Supplies of Western weapons to Ukraine are in full swing. Dutch tracked armored vehicles YPR-765 were spotted in Ukraine without regular weapons. The YPR-765 armored personnel carrier was developed in the USA in 1970 on the basis of the M113 armored personnel carrier. The Pentagon was not interested in it and the license for its production was sold to the Netherlands. The YPR-765 BMP delivered to Ukraine turned out to be without a turret with an automatic cannon and without a paired machine gun.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

First response to Finland applying for NATO membership. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527602155707826178

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## Viet

While her father Vla Putin insults westernized Russians as traitors and scums, Katerina Wladimirowna Tichonowa, his youngest daughter, loves Rock n’ Roll.
She pays regular visits to Munich, one of the richest cities in Germany. Investigation shows she flew to Munich 50 times in the last 2 years.
She enjoys all evil western luxury including protection by Putin’s personal security service.
Real comedy.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527634015360000004

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527616437812174851

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## SalarHaqq

wahhab0202 said:


> They blasted quite a few arms supply from west to Ukraina and also some military training centers. Satellite intelligent must have a significant role here as ground intelligent would be very hard to make.



Indeed. And don't forget human intelligence. Millions of Ukrainian citizens from the easternmost to the westernmost corner of the country stand with Russia, in fact. Among them one will find a number of particularly valiant ones ready to risk life and limb to discretely feed targeting information to the armed forces of the Russian Federation.

For getting caught could mean ending up brutally tortured to death, or enduring years of abuse in the best case. It is noteworthy that the western-submissive regime in Kiev has de facto legalized torture (much like the Bush jr. regime did in the aftermath of the dubious 2001 attacks in the USA).

Ukrainian regime supporters don't hide their fascination with gore. This is the dominant mindset amidst Kiev and NATO forces, and torture methods resorted to by the Ukrainian secret police as well as pseudo-Nazi reprisal brigades, are fully on par with those used by the Gestapo against Partizans during WW2 (including practices such as tearing victims' nails out, suspending them by the feet and beating them with cables, starving them out, etc).

Will share very soon a deeply shocking and extremely revealing video interview with a journalist who conducted extensive field research on the subject.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527599731861602305

Ammunition storage got hit 👇

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527640337413419008
The Russian air and missile forces have unleashed missile rain throughout Ukraine today. Denazification and demilitarization are in full speed. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527637727201599489

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527634501677064192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527620624356720642

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527613999075958785

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Russian Defense Minister Sergei Kuzhugetovich Shoigu 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527578376105611264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527580689289330689


Ukrainian channel on the situation on the fate of the city of the fate of Severodonetsk 👇



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527576936670806016

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527576964487430144

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527640102020816898

After a vacation, Oryx is back to counting  

Russia now officially at 3,700 losses

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## Wood

RescueRanger said:


> Once this war is over Russia will be another third world backwater. Putin really buggered his country and people.


.. as long as Russia has cheaply accessible energy/natural resources that the world has demand for, it will not be in the same ball park of typical developing countries. The reason for poverty in South Asia (and elsewhere) is the low per capita availability of resources. Russia does not have this problem. Political stability and restoration of international relations will quickly restore demand and capability to supply.

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## Viet

Wood said:


> .. as long as Russia has cheaply accessible energy/natural resources that the world has demand for, it will not be in the same ball park of typical developing countries. The reason for poverty in South Asia (and elsewhere) is the low per capita availability of resources. Russia does not have this problem. Political stability and restoration of international relations will quickly restore demand and capability to supply.


He is right. Russia is cut off from Europe. Russia aircraft can’t land, Russian ships can’t dock. Russia energy export and weapon markets is Asia. Putin makes Russia into a country like Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. No offense to the both latter.

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## Paul2

Viet said:


> While her father Vla Putin insults westernized Russians as traitors and scums, Katerina Wladimirowna Tichonowa, his youngest daughter, loves Rock n’ Roll.
> She pays regular visits to Munich, one of the richest cities in Germany. Investigation shows she flew to Munich 50 times in the last 2 years.
> She enjoys all evil western luxury including protection by Putin’s personal security service.
> Real comedy.
> 
> 
> View attachment 845706



That's the hypocrisy of the West.

The West keep shitting on us, while hosting both CPC, and the CPSU 2.0, and their offspring.

If Trump was that tough, he could've guantanamoed Xi's daughter, and it would've been the end of the story.


----------



## Wood

Viet said:


> He is right. Russia is cut off from Europe. Russia aircraft can’t land, Russian ships can’t dock. Russia energy export and weapon markets is Asia. Putin makes Russia into a country like Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. No offense to the both latter.


I include the caveat of restoring international relations in my comment. I don't think Russia will be an international pariah forever. Eventually, Putin or his successor will find a way to compromise with the west.

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## Wergeland

SalarHaqq said:


> Ukrainian regime supporters don't hide their fetish for gory stuff. This is the dominant mindset among Kiev and NATO forces, and the torture methods employed by the Ukrainian secret policy and pseudo-nazi reprisal brigades are fully on par with those used by the Gestapo against Partizans during the WW2 occupation of the Soviet Union (including tearing out nails, crushing teeth, suspending from the feet and hitting with cables, starving out, subjecting females to rape, etc).



Worst of all these peseudo-nazis will be welcomed into european societies when Russia will be hunting them down one by one.

Kindly requesting our American friends to open their hearts and the gates for those lovely pseudo-nazis. So that colored people living in Europe dont have to deal with them. Let the blacks and mexicans deal with them so they are taught a lesson.

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## Wood

Apollon said:


> View attachment 845704
> 
> 
> 
> Crazy is, that the streets are littered with this. Looks like they do not just burn inside when the turret cooks off, but get ripped apart.
> 
> @Foinikas look, a new relique.


This is graphic. Please put it in spoiler comment

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## Apollon

Wood said:


> I include the caveat of restoring international relations in my comment. I don't think Russia will be an international pariah forever. Eventually, Putin or his successor will find a way to compromise with the west.



Putin is burned in Europe completly. There is no compromise possible.



Wergeland said:


> Worst of all these peseudo-nazis will be welcomed into european societies when Russia will be hunting them down one by one.
> 
> Kindly requesting our American friends to open their hearts and the gates for those lovely pseudo-nazis. So that colored people living in Europe dont have to deal with them. Let the blacks and mexicans deal with them so they are taught a lesson.



Colored people. 😅 You go woke now? 


And where will russia hunt down? The only thing getting hunted are russians in Ukraine

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## Vergennes

Rubizhne


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527631925367668738

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527627947095560194

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## Viet

Paul2 said:


> That's the hypocrisy of the West.
> 
> The West keep shitting on us, while hosting both CPC, and the CPSU 2.0, and their offspring.
> 
> If Trump was that tough, he could've guantanamoed Xi's daughter, and it would've been the end of the story.


That’s the irony. Chinese hate the west however they do the opposite. They drive Tesla, trink French wine, eat Australia’s lobsters, buy Mercedes. As sign of friendship they buy more gas from Russia. Putin hates the west, he expects respect otherwise he wants to nuke them. He now has no choice but buys a chinese refrigerator. Western exports to Russia have collapsed.

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## Apollon

Vergennes said:


> Rubizhne
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527631925367668738
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527627947095560194



Love how that guy calmly walks into death.


----------



## wahhab0202

Seeing the current development, it's going to take some times.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527553792165683202


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## Wood

Apollon said:


> Love how that guy calmly walks into death.


It is horrific actually. Russians should not be fighting this war at all


----------



## Gomig-21

A still from one of the early March videos. Apparently, Russia has deployed the Su-57 on the periphery of the war zone & border while it's using some of the latest long-range missiles such as the R37M.














https://twitter.com/tass_agency





StraightEdge said:


> The "evacuation" as per western media.



You know that was a term the Nazis used for the elimination of the Jews. They would call it "evacuation". When they secretly met at the famous villa in Berlin for the Wansee Conference run by Adolf Eichman and the brutal & savage Reinhard Heydrich and 15 members of the senior Nazi Party of the German gov. as well as representatives of the Interior Ministry, Foreign Ministry, Justice Ministry and Ministers of the Eastern Territories such as Poland, they discussed Hermann Goering's plan for the "Final Solution" and during the entire meeting, they would use the term "evacuate" to define the gassing and shooting and starving and whichever way they were going to kill off the Jews and all others in the concentration camps. Not once in the meeting that lasted several hours did they use the term "kill".

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## jamahir

Soldier35 said:


> Video of the heroic battle of the Russian T-80BVM tank in Ukraine in the Kharkov region. On the video, you can see that the Russian T-80 tank was damaged, but it continues to fight, the Russian tank is attacked from all sides by Ukrainian soldiers with grenade launchers, but it does not leave the battlefield.





Iron Shrappenel said:


> Those tankers deserve a medal.



It is like a cat fighting when surrounded by dogs. This battle needs to be put all over. The tankies absolutely deserve a medal.

@Foinikas @Hassan Al-Somal @SalarHaqq

@Apollon @Vergennes @Wood @mmr @F-22Raptor @Get Ya Wig Split

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## Meengla

jamal18 said:


> Reuters I believe was the only Western agency to use the word 'surrender'.
> 
> The BBC and sky and most others used the word 'evacuated'.


Yes, the 'evacuated' word has been laughed at even in the Western media/comments. It was so unnecessary to use. There ARE wins and losses in wars. Nothing too shameful to admit that Azovstal had fallen. 



Apollon said:


> Putler openly said it Lissabon to Vladivostok.
> 
> His Empire of dirt can go to hell. We will never cooperate with his disgusting regime in any way. Its better to grill them in Ukraine.



I haven't read that comment but I bet it was not about land conquest. Russia is a has been force and they KNOW that. Ukraine was/is a special case but to take on a NATO country?? And all the way to Portugal?? This kind of distortions justifies and causes wars--much like Iran's Ahmadinejad's distorted comment about 'wiping' Israel off the map. 



RoadAmerica said:


> 😂
> 
> 
> Why does everyone say if nato entered the war it would go nuclear? I can guarantee you if the war spread to nato it would not go nuclear.
> That just tells me the Putin fan boys know he lost already. He can’t win so he’ll erase all of humanity





Wood said:


> .. as long as Russia has cheaply accessible energy/natural resources that the world has demand for, it will not be in the same ball park of typical developing countries. The reason for poverty in South Asia (and elsewhere) is the low per capita availability of resources. Russia does not have this problem. Political stability and restoration of international relations will quickly restore demand and capability to supply.


 True. Russia is over-loaded with resources and in such a situation, while there maybe big hit to the Russian standard of living, they will not starve or even be cold in the winter. 


Wergeland said:


> Worst of all these peseudo-nazis will be welcomed into european societies when Russia will be hunting them down one by one.
> 
> Kindly requesting our American friends to open their hearts and the gates for those lovely pseudo-nazis. So that colored people living in Europe dont have to deal with them. Let the blacks and mexicans deal with them so they are taught a lesson.


 The Nazi angle is overblown. There maybe some in Ukraine but I don't think they are in significant numbers. There are some other reasons to 'justify' the war by Russia but Nazism is not convincing one. 



Viet said:


> That’s the irony. Chinese hate the west however they do the opposite. They drive Tesla, trink French wine, eat Australia’s lobsters, buy Mercedes. As sign of friendship they buy more gas from Russia. Putin hates the west, he expects respect otherwise he wants to nuke them. He now has no choice but buys a chinese refrigerator. Western exports to Russia have collapsed.



Western culture is too alluring for most of humanity. I am well aware of the bloody and imperialistic impulses of the West but culturally it has evolved to be a very appealing model after bloody wars and pogroms inside the West itself over thousands of years. But that's for another topic.

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## Wergeland

Meengla said:


> Western culture is too alluring for most of humanity. I am well aware of the bloody and imperialistic impulses of the West but culturally it has evolved to be a very appealing model after bloody wars and pogroms inside the West itself over thousands of years. But that's for another topic.



Agree

What people vote with their feets matter more than what they vote with their mouths.
Vast number of westward migration proves that.

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## Primus

Gomig-21 said:


> A still from one of the early March videos. Apparently, Russia has deployed the Su-57 on the periphery of the war zone & border while it's using some of the latest long-range missiles such as the R37M.
> 
> View attachment 845761
> 
> 
> View attachment 845762
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/tass_agency
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know that was a term the Nazis used for the elimination of the Jews. They would call it "evacuation". When they secretly met at the famous villa in Berlin for the Wansee Conference run by Adolf Eichman and the brutal & savage Reinhard Heydrich and 15 members of the senior Nazi Party of the German gov. as well as representatives of the Interior Ministry, Foreign Ministry, Justice Ministry and Ministers of the Eastern Territories such as Poland, they discussed Hermann Goering's plan for the "Final Solution" and during the entire meeting, they would use the term "evacuate" to define the gassing and shooting and starving and whichever way they were going to kill off the Jews and all others in the concentration camps. Not once in the meeting that lasted several hours did they use the term "kill".


That still is of a Su30M conducting an air strike on a bridge in Ukraine. Not a felon


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> It is like a cat fighting when surrounded by dogs. This battle needs to be put all over. The tankies absolutely deserve a medal.
> 
> @Foinikas @Hassan Al-Somal @SalarHaqq
> 
> @Apollon @Vergennes @Wood @mmr @F-22Raptor @Get Ya Wig Split



I bet they got cooked off 😅👍


----------



## Viet

Meengla said:


> Yes, the 'evacuated' word has been laughed at even in the Western media/comments. It was so unnecessary to use. There ARE wins and losses in wars. Nothing too shameful to admit that Azovstal had fallen.
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't read that comment but I bet it was not about land conquest. Russia is a has been force and they KNOW that. Ukraine was/is a special case but to take on a NATO country?? And all the way to Portugal?? This kind of distortions justifies and causes wars--much like Iran's Ahmadinejad's distorted comment about 'wiping' Israel off the map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True. Russia is over-loaded with resources and in such a situation, while there maybe big hit to the Russian standard of living, they will not starve or even be cold in the winter.
> 
> The Nazi angle is overblown. There maybe some in Ukraine but I don't think they are in significant numbers. There are some other reasons to 'justify' the war by Russia but Nazism is not convincing one.
> 
> 
> 
> Western culture is too alluring for most of humanity. I am well aware of the bloody and imperialistic impulses of the West but culturally it has evolved to be a very appealing model after bloody wars and pogroms inside the West itself over thousands of years. But that's for another topic.


Russia is an imperialist. Otherwise it’s not as big as it is today. Russia is an giant nevertheless Putin tries to steal lands from other. Same for China. Same for Mongol, Persia. It’s wrong to say the West is an imperialist other not.

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## ckf

Constantin84 said:


> It doesn't matter if they'll win or not,.A powerful military would have ended the conventional war with Ukraine in 2 weeks . No matter what happens from now on,Russia lost allrea





Viet said:


> That’s the irony. Chinese hate the west however they do the opposite. They drive Tesla, trink French wine, eat Australia’s lobsters, buy Mercedes. As sign of friendship they buy more gas from Russia. Putin hates the west, he expects respect otherwise he wants to nuke them. He now has no choice but buys a chinese refrigerator. Western exports to Russia have collapsed.


Most chinese people don't hate the west, CCP doesn't hate the west...Stop spreading hatred, which is truly disgusting.


----------



## 925boy

kingQamaR said:


> The US has numerous intel sources including spy planes, spy boats, submarines, satellites, spies, NSA hackers, all the NATO countries and many more friends and allies


then why has this same US lost every war since you and i were born? just fact checkingbro.

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## Nuclear Clown

wahhab0202 said:


> You probably right on all the things you mentioned on the above post. But calling Russian nukes as fire cracker??? A few of them could wipe whole western Europe, and Russia doesn't posses a few but bunch.


And we can make Russian areas with more than a 1ppl per km² areas radioactive just like the Chernobyl's Red Forrest for the next 25,000 years : big arsenals mean that you can do airbursts with very small fallouts, destruction is maximized but you can re-use areas after 2-3 weeks... A medium nuke power like us would be way more nasty : 
1. We understate our real arsenal
2. It is optimized to maximize fallouts : a 100 kilotons one is designed to kill as much as a 1 megaton one, no through thermal effect, but through acute radiation syndrome




3. If we have to use it, we won't do airbursts: surface burst may do only half the damages but anything into the fireball is neutron-activated, and at n millions of °C (I've heard about as high as 400M °C), all the crap gets airborne in the shroom, and again, we're speaking about enhanced radiation effect nukes, not your Nukemap's "standard" thermonuclear, and from recoupment of stuff I could learn about in the old days I was "subterranean" in areas you wander in wearing a Hazmat type B and a dosimeter, although not said publicly because of the ecologists, these are very probably "salted" bombs...

You've got it, the worst case scenario may not forcefully being the cretin of the Kremlin with his firecrackers doing big booms at 10,000-20,000 ft altitude, it's small ones used in surface bursts... Or big ones too... In fact, the results would look like the infamous 1956 nuke war plans except that rule out all the areas that pulled out from Russo/Soviet sphere and move the strikes into what's left : the 1st implies less than 200 blasts




The 2nd about 500-550





So, you know, with already 320 MIRVs at sea 24/7/365 in peace time, which are doubled in case of tensions added with the ALCMs getting prepositionned 
So, you know, when STATE-OWNED Rossiya-1 TV does Russian "humour" with such nuclear threats when their Waffen-SS orcs are murderind, raping Ukrainians at the same they're destroying and looting their homes and real-estate.
Moreover, Rossiya-1 are liars : the RS-28 "Satan-II" are set to replace the 46 R-36M2 "Satan" in the silos of the 13th Red Banner Rocket Division at Yasny, Orenburg Oblast and of the 62nd Rocket Division at Uzhur, Krasnoyarsk Krai, all with 10x 1Mt MIRVs, all the R-36M2 Mod.6 with a single 20Mt warhead were decommissioned in 2009 and the combustible likely burnt as fuel in NPPs




Well, did you noticed how Bobo is loudmouthed while Macron speaks softly? Meanwhile, the 4 Triomphant-class submarines are at sea, the EC91 Gascogne's Rafales are not on their "home" base and IMHO, into 3 months, there was more time than it is needed to put what's in cocoon storage or maintenance back to active service and replace SCALP or MdCN conventional warheads with something else, then, I can't tell if there are still tactical ones available but there were rumours that the Exocet ASM could receive a tactical-nuke as soon as the early 80's. I didn't verified if the CVN is at sea and if its transponder is on or off
And now the nasty part, the M51.3 has received the 3rd gen stealth ONERA's DEMR boss spoke about in 2009 since Hune 2020, Rafales are being upgraded to the F4 standard for 1 year+ now and the first to receive upgrades are always the EC91 and the Navy's squadrons since they carry the ASMPA-R, so forget about detecting these all even using the 29B6 Konteyner or the Voronezh radars, the fleet of Soviet spy sats are long gone and even if there were SAR radars, these would detect nothing, MdCN, SCALP and ASMPA-R are stealth although neither using 2nd gen like Rafale F3 or French navy vessels nor 3rd gen as M51.3 or Rafale F4, so their presence may be spotted under some conditions you will update the cruise missile's waypoints in order to avoid these.

Now don't ask me what's left in storage/set to be dismantled, I have no idea, but I'm not the only one to estimate that 350-500 would be realistic, this would imply a total arsenal of about 1000-1200 warheads available under a month [any way, even the peace-time "active" arsenal can already hurt very badly) and it's been more than a month since Vladolf Putler said he was Putin ruSSian strategic forces in alert, so make no mistake, France is in "DEFCON2" and if the Kremlin's Gremlin dares to attack an EU country, he perfectly knows about EU's constitution art 42.7, he perfectly knows about the French doctrine which implies that even a conventional war would meet a nuclear response, and he perfectly knows that it has been extended to the EU, and since that his friend Marine Le Pen hasn't been elected, there's no way to see France giving up this doctrine or pull out from NATO, or even pulling out from integrated command again [any way, French strategic forces are NOT part of NATO, moreover, her party is on the razor's edge and her too, they're in a judiciary turmoil, even the EU is suing them]...




So yup, even if not hammered in the MSM, Finland is absolutely under the French nuclear umbrella, so is Cyprus, in case of Ankara's Gollum forgot about it, as well as the Baltic States and you will notice that there is no silo in France, then, since all has switched to optic fiber, forget about breaking the command chain with EMP.
Then yeah, Putler can surely wipeout France and the UK with his firecrackers, but with what would be left of ruSSia, added with an agricultural zone rendered radioactive for thousands of years, well, how long those in the Moscow's or St.Pete's subways dug 100m below the surface will survive? Even he ruSSian army's rations are long pas shelves dates, 20% of its budget is embezzled, ruSSia is corrupted from the top to the bottom, so don't expect civilian defense going better, you can be sure that if there was stockpiles of canned food in subways' storage, these are gone for long, and I don't think there are hydroponics. Expect something like Enki Bilal's _"Bunker Palace Hotel"_ for the elites which will end TARFU in it, and add a good 600-1000 rad/h on the surface... 

Now, if you want to wipe out, it's not a few of Putler's firecrackers : with a 1 megaton airburst, you can expect
such damages: 








NUKEMAP by Alex Wellerstein


NUKEMAP is a mapping mash-up that calculates the effects of the detonation of a nuclear bomb.




nuclearsecrecy.com




(you may have to re-detonate as it will show up as a surface burst, thus minimizing the wipe-out features by about 50%)...
When Rossiya-1 one brags about a single Sarmat wiping out the UK, this is utter BS !!! If the wind helps, the 10x 1 megaton MIRVs may cover about 20,000-30,000 km² at 1 rad/h, but the usual winds are not so fallout-spread friendly.
This is not wiping out, it's making it radioactive with surface blasts  If you truly want to wipe out the UK, you need to use cose to 500x 1 Megaton warheads, in other terms, the whole fleet of 46 R-36M2which NATO calls "Satan" or its upcoming successor, the RS-28 Sarmat which NATO calls "Satan-II", or you'd need about 500 Topol-M with a single warhead, thus there are only 60 silo-based Topol-M and 18 TELs...




There are only 36 road mobile older Topols which are being phased out




for the RS-24 Yars which is MIRVed: 136 road-mobile and 14 silo-based missiles are deployed




This implies you're no more in a city-buster strategy.
Frankly, when the Sarmat/Sineva factory did burn a few years ago, I believed Putin had grown a brain and did his McNamara, but ruSSian style... 
Since the Sarmat is to finally replace the R-36M2, and according to the fact he's wiping out cities again while proffering nuclear threats, unfortunately, he obviously didn't broke up with the Soviet/Nazi barbarian issues of terrorizing populations... 
The bulk of the arsenal is submarine based, with 5 Borei and a Typhoon totally 100 RSM-56 Bulava with 6 MIRVs each (600 warheads), and 7 Delta IV with a total of 112 R-29RMU Sineva and so 448 MIRVs
But considering that the Sinevas as well as the R-36 Tsyklon or the Sarmat are liquid-fuelled, don't bet on a 100% launch success, if some dude didn't managed to sell the fuel  When you know that in St.Pete, the best Vodka is sold by the Ru-Air Force dudes and analysis have shown there is kerosene in, I'd definitively avoid vodka sold by the submariners or by the 13th and 62nd rocket divisions: you probably have hydrazine in  
They're not even able to put ERA bricks on their tanks, the body armours are so long past shelf-dates that non-AP rounds pierce through, and visibly, if the Arena active protection system works, the 1600+ tanks and 3000+ IFV/APC destroyed by Ukraine didn't received it more than ERA, while, during latest Hezbollah attack into Israel, the two Kornet-E launched against an Israeli MRAP were intercepted by Trophy LV...

Oh, BTW, Turkey complains that S-400 is barely useless... So, you know, I use the word "firecrackers" deliberately about ruZZian nuclear arsenal... Oh, for sure, it may do some damages, but you can be near certain that the French arsenal, and maybe even the Israeli arsenal if Colin Powell and Jimmy Carter didn't lied, can hurt freaking bad, much badly than many are willing to think...

As we are, the fully loaded 100Mt Tsar Bomba in a surface burst would have spread fallouts over about 500,000km² with about 1.1km³ of ground vaporized and made radioactive with a mushroom cloud between 40 and 53km altitude... Imagine that, since the location is classified, and likely in some bunker, some wise ruSSian general targets this bunker with a Topol-M in a surface burst... 30t of mil-grade Pu239 at 20 kt/kg=> 600 megatons, add 1 NPP for less than 10,000km² with, for the most of them, 4x 3.8GWth reactors and it's impossible to estimate the quantity of antimatter in storage, the only thing is that with 10µg, it's said having enough energy to go to Mars and back, and 1g = 43 kilotons => 2150x more powerful than Pu239...

I'd be very careful if I was into using nuclear weapons against France which is the most denuclearized country on the planet: there might be some unwanted side effects like a nuclear winter, a nuclear disaster of apocalyptical proportions, who knows, maybe a gigantic hole in the Earth's crust of the level of the Oruanui VEI-8 eruption if not worse, some dude at the Large Hadron Collider may even decide to lift all securities and unleash a small blackhole which will grow and grow at the point after some time it will eat the solar system or more... 

So, as you see, I definitively do not fear Putler's arsenal, he's a nuclear clown, ruSSia is a paper tiger




and I'm positive with a direct NATO intervention in Ukraine to kick his orcs out, period! 
He can always use one of his firecrackers as a dildo, he'll surely enjoy it more than Hermann Goering enjoyed what his great dane dog had to offer...


----------



## 925boy

Viet said:


> Even though Putin can make it, consumption in China and India cannot compensate the loss of European markets.


why would Russia need to "compensate" the loss of Europpean markets when European markets will never stop buying from Russia? This is a fake hypothetical you just slipped in here will never exist in reality.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## Nuclear Clown

925boy said:


> then why has this same US lost every war since you and i were born? just fact checkingbro.


Are you sure? I mean, are you sure to understand what were the US goals? In your advice, what were the 1972 Mao/Nixon 1972 talks about if not about PRC's neutrality in the Cold War? What was a peasants country like Vietnam's economical interest for the USA? Absolutely ZERO. OK, their MIC made huge money, but it's not enough to imply...
Then, taking out Iraq, Libya or Venezuela out of the oil market while USA is the #1 oil producer? Same goal as Putin intervention in Syria so he was sure that the Qatar-Turkey gas pipeline would never reach the EU and start competing ruSSian gas!!!! And his little arrangements with Erdogan and even very discreet but REAL ruSSian weapons deliveries to the Kurds are also very nice in order to see Iranian pipelines coming from the same South-Pars/North-Dome gas field never reaching the EU too...
Jihadi activity from Mali/Chad down to Nigeria are also here to threaten gas-pipelines to the EU, and now you have Wagner PMC presence in Mali, you shouldn't have to many issue guessing about who pulled the strings of the military coup there...
War is not sports game, it's all about big money! 
Putin's goal in Ukraine seems to take over the control on global food supply and use it as a global blackmail tool, it's becoming really obvious : ruSSian forces have already stolen millions of tons of wheat!

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## jamal18

Russian military believe that the conflict in the Lugansk are will soon be over.

One of the 'cauldrons' besieged by the Russians set to surrender?

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3


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527663051956178945

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5


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527728208845709316

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527699995897511936

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2


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527709620847919104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527711649309806592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527694722273255424

Reactions: Like Like:
4 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Viet

Germany to deliver 15 'Gepard' tanks to Ukraine in July​
4h ago






Germany's defense minister has said the anti-aircraft tank will be used to protect "critical infrastructure" in Ukraine from Russian attacks.
Ukraine will receive 15 anti-aircraft "Gepard" tanks from Germany in July, a German Defense Ministry spokesperson said Friday.
Included with the arms delivery will be training support by the German Armed Forces and the provision of nearly 60,000 rounds of ammunition, Germany's dpa news agency reported.
The announcement came after a meeting Friday between German Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht and her Ukrainian counterpart Olexii Resnikov.
Lambrecht said that the Gepard is an "effective" weapon with a "considerable deterrent effect ... for the protection of critical infrastructure."









Germany to deliver 15 'Gepard' tanks to Ukraine in July – DW – 05/20/2022


Germany's defense minister has said the anti-aircraft tank will be used to protect "critical infrastructure" in Ukraine from Russian attacks.




m.dw.com


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527604972749307905
Then came this:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527694186845196300

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Raffie said:


> And we can make Russian areas with more than a 1ppl per km² areas radioactive just like the Chernobyl's Red Forrest for the next 25,000 years : big arsenals mean that you can do airbursts with very small fallouts, destruction is maximized but you can re-use areas after 2-3 weeks... A medium nuke power like us would be way more nasty :
> 1. We understate our real arsenal
> 2. It is optimized to maximize fallouts : a 100 kilotons one is designed to kill as much as a 1 megaton one, no through thermal effect, but through acute radiation syndrome
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. If we have to use it, we won't do airbursts: surface burst may do only half the damages but anything into the fireball is neutron-activated, and at n millions of °C (I've heard about as high as 400M °C), all the crap gets airborne in the shroom, and again, we're speaking about enhanced radiation effect nukes, not your Nukemap's "standard" thermonuclear, and from recoupment of stuff I could learn about in the old days I was "subterranean" in areas you wander in wearing a Hazmat type B and a dosimeter, although not said publicly because of the ecologists, these are very probably "salted" bombs...
> 
> You've got it, the worst case scenario may not forcefully being the cretin of the Kremlin with his firecrackers doing big booms at 10,000-20,000 ft altitude, it's small ones used in surface bursts... Or big ones too... In fact, the results would look like the infamous 1956 nuke war plans except that rule out all the areas that pulled out from Russo/Soviet sphere and move the strikes into what's left : the 1st implies less than 200 blasts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 2nd about 500-550
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you know, with already 320 MIRVs at sea 24/7/365 in peace time, which are doubled in case of tensions added with the ALCMs getting prepositionned
> So, you know, when STATE-OWNED Rossiya-1 TV does Russian "humour" with such nuclear threats when their Waffen-SS orcs are murderind, raping Ukrainians at the same they're destroying and looting their homes and real-estate.
> Moreover, Rossiya-1 are liars : the RS-28 "Satan-II" are set to replace the 46 R-36M2 "Satan" in the silos of the 13th Red Banner Rocket Division at Yasny, Orenburg Oblast and of the 62nd Rocket Division at Uzhur, Krasnoyarsk Krai, all with 10x 1Mt MIRVs, all the R-36M2 Mod.6 with a single 20Mt warhead were decommissioned in 2009 and the combustible likely burnt as fuel in NPPs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, did you noticed how Bobo is loudmouthed while Macron speaks softly? Meanwhile, the 4 Triomphant-class submarines are at sea, the EC91 Gascogne's Rafales are not on their "home" base and IMHO, into 3 months, there was more time than it is needed to put what's in cocoon storage or maintenance back to active service and replace SCALP or MdCN conventional warheads with something else, then, I can't tell if there are still tactical ones available but there were rumours that the Exocet ASM could receive a tactical-nuke as soon as the early 80's. I didn't verified if the CVN is at sea and if its transponder is on or off
> And now the nasty part, the M51.3 has received the 3rd gen stealth ONERA's DEMR boss spoke about in 2009 since Hune 2020, Rafales are being upgraded to the F4 standard for 1 year+ now and the first to receive upgrades are always the EC91 and the Navy's squadrons since they carry the ASMPA-R, so forget about detecting these all even using the 29B6 Konteyner or the Voronezh radars, the fleet of Soviet spy sats are long gone and even if there were SAR radars, these would detect nothing, MdCN, SCALP and ASMPA-R are stealth although neither using 2nd gen like Rafale F3 or French navy vessels nor 3rd gen as M51.3 or Rafale F4, so their presence may be spotted under some conditions you will update the cruise missile's waypoints in order to avoid these.
> 
> Now don't ask me what's left in storage/set to be dismantled, I have no idea, but I'm not the only one to estimate that 350-500 would be realistic, this would imply a total arsenal of about 1000-1200 warheads available under a month [any way, even the peace-time "active" arsenal can already hurt very badly) and it's been more than a month since Vladolf Putler said he was Putin ruSSian strategic forces in alert, so make no mistake, France is in "DEFCON2" and if the Kremlin's Gremlin dares to attack an EU country, he perfectly knows about EU's constitution art 42.7, he perfectly knows about the French doctrine which implies that even a conventional war would meet a nuclear response, and he perfectly knows that it has been extended to the EU, and since that his friend Marine Le Pen hasn't been elected, there's no way to see France giving up this doctrine or pull out from NATO, or even pulling out from integrated command again [any way, French strategic forces are NOT part of NATO, moreover, her party is on the razor's edge and her too, they're in a judiciary turmoil, even the EU is suing them]...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So yup, even if not hammered in the MSM, Finland is absolutely under the French nuclear umbrella, so is Cyprus, in case of Ankara's Gollum forgot about it, as well as the Baltic States and you will notice that there is no silo in France, then, since all has switched to optic fiber, forget about breaking the command chain with EMP.
> Then yeah, Putler can surely wipeout France and the UK with his firecrackers, but with what would be left of ruSSia, added with an agricultural zone rendered radioactive for thousands of years, well, how long those in the Moscow's or St.Pete's subways dug 100m below the surface will survive? Even he ruSSian army's rations are long pas shelves dates, 20% of its budget is embezzled, ruSSia is corrupted from the top to the bottom, so don't expect civilian defense going better, you can be sure that if there was stockpiles of canned food in subways' storage, these are gone for long, and I don't think there are hydroponics. Expect something like Enki Bilal's _"Bunker Palace Hotel"_ for the elites which will end TARFU in it, and add a good 600-1000 rad/h on the surface...
> 
> Now, if you want to wipe out, it's not a few of Putler's firecrackers : with a 1 megaton airburst, you can expect
> such damages:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NUKEMAP by Alex Wellerstein
> 
> 
> NUKEMAP is a mapping mash-up that calculates the effects of the detonation of a nuclear bomb.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nuclearsecrecy.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (you may have to re-detonate as it will show up as a surface burst, thus minimizing the wipe-out features by about 50%)...
> When Rossiya-1 one brags about a single Sarmat wiping out the UK, this is utter BS !!! If the wind helps, the 10x 1 megaton MIRVs may cover about 20,000-30,000 km² at 1 rad/h, but the usual winds are not so fallout-spread friendly.
> This is not wiping out, it's making it radioactive with surface blasts  If you truly want to wipe out the UK, you need to use cose to 500x 1 Megaton warheads, in other terms, the whole fleet of 46 R-36M2which NATO calls "Satan" or its upcoming successor, the RS-28 Sarmat which NATO calls "Satan-II", or you'd need about 500 Topol-M with a single warhead, thus there are only 60 silo-based Topol-M and 18 TELs...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are only 36 road mobile older Topols which are being phased out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for the RS-24 Yars which is MIRVed: 136 road-mobile and 14 silo-based missiles are deployed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This implies you're no more in a city-buster strategy.
> Frankly, when the Sarmat/Sineva factory did burn a few years ago, I believed Putin had grown a brain and did his McNamara, but ruSSian style...
> Since the Sarmat is to finally replace the R-36M2, and according to the fact he's wiping out cities again while proffering nuclear threats, unfortunately, he obviously didn't broke up with the Soviet/Nazi barbarian issues of terrorizing populations...
> The bulk of the arsenal is submarine based, with 5 Borei and a Typhoon totally 100 RSM-56 Bulava with 6 MIRVs each (600 warheads), and 7 Delta IV with a total of 112 R-29RMU Sineva and so 448 MIRVs
> But considering that the Sinevas as well as the R-36 Tsyklon or the Sarmat are liquid-fuelled, don't bet on a 100% launch success, if some dude didn't managed to sell the fuel  When you know that in St.Pete, the best Vodka is sold by the Ru-Air Force dudes and analysis have shown there is kerosene in, I'd definitively avoid vodka sold by the submariners or by the 13th and 62nd rocket divisions: you probably have hydrazine in
> They're not even able to put ERA bricks on their tanks, the body armours are so long past shelf-dates that non-AP rounds pierce through, and visibly, if the Arena active protection system works, the 1600+ tanks and 3000+ IFV/APC destroyed by Ukraine didn't received it more than ERA, while, during latest Hezbollah attack into Israel, the two Kornet-E launched against an Israeli MRAP were intercepted by Trophy LV...
> 
> Oh, BTW, Turkey complains that S-400 is barely useless... So, you know, I use the word "firecrackers" deliberately about ruZZian nuclear arsenal... Oh, for sure, it may do some damages, but you can be near certain that the French arsenal, and maybe even the Israeli arsenal if Colin Powell and Jimmy Carter didn't lied, can hurt freaking bad, much badly than many are willing to think...
> 
> As we are, the fully loaded 100Mt Tsar Bomba in a surface burst would have spread fallouts over about 500,000km² with about 1.1km³ of ground vaporized and made radioactive with a mushroom cloud between 40 and 53km altitude... Imagine that, since the location is classified, and likely in some bunker, some wise ruSSian general targets this bunker with a Topol-M in a surface burst... 30t of mil-grade Pu239 at 20 kt/kg=> 600 megatons, add 1 NPP for less than 10,000km² with, for the most of them, 4x 3.8GWth reactors and it's impossible to estimate the quantity of antimatter in storage, the only thing is that with 10µg, it's said having enough energy to go to Mars and back, and 1g = 43 kilotons => 2150x more powerful than Pu239...
> 
> I'd be very careful if I was into using nuclear weapons against France which is the most denuclearized country on the planet: there might be some unwanted side effects like a nuclear winter, a nuclear disaster of apocalyptical proportions, who knows, maybe a gigantic hole in the Earth's crust of the level of the Oruanui VEI-8 eruption if not worse, some dude at the Large Hadron Collider may even decide to lift all securities and unleash a small blackhole which will grow and grow at the point after some time it will eat the solar system or more...
> 
> So, as you see, I definitively do not fear Putler's arsenal, he's a nuclear clown, ruSSia is a paper tiger
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and I'm positive with a direct NATO intervention in Ukraine to kick his orcs out, period!
> He can always use one of his firecrackers as a dildo, he'll surely enjoy it more than Hermann Goering enjoyed what his great dane dog had to offer...



You really expect people here to read all of that diatribe? We aren't your professors who gets paid to read and grade your paper. Keep it short and to add reason to it. Right now, it is devoid of any facts for anyone to spend even 5 minutes on it.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527611800166010880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527736290006994944

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527689617574592514
We can say. that Gas-ruble will support Russia for a good period, till 2026-27. then, the European side can dispense with Russian gas.. on the other hand, if the war is concluded quickly and the sanctions are lifted then we can say that the real battle will take place Between the petrodollar and the gasruble or the oilruble.. This is the real battle by the way, that the US does not allow, and fight for it, as it happened before with Iran when it started selling in a currency other than the dollar, Venezuela and Libya when Gaddafi wanted to create a new energy currency..

The Russian economy is difficult and you cannot control it directly because it is a closed economy to a large extent.. the West always call it a gas station with nuclear weapons..

The Russians are now going to try to destroy the industry in Europe and the US in an easy way; It is enough to sell the raw materials to the competitors of your enemies at cheaper prices than what is available in the market.. Then for example, the cost of production in India, China, South Africa, Brazil and Turkey will be cheaper, and their goods will become cheaper and cheaper, and surely the customers will buy at the cheapest price.. making the industry in Europe and in the US stagnate..

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Wow Wow:
1


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527723176117010434

Reactions: Like Like:
4 | Love Love:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527694991312789504

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527695297979326471


----------



## gambit

925boy said:


> then why has this same US lost every war since you and i were born? just fact checkingbro.


Would *YOU* call the US military a 'loser' military and that no one should look to US for anything military related? Just asking, bro.


----------



## jamal18

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527663051956178945


I believe that the last of the defenders have surrendered. 

It is definitely over.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

Russia uses rocket launchers with more accurate shells than the Grad, perhaps the Aragon:

Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## 925boy

gambit said:


> Would *YOU* call the US military a 'loser' military and that no one should look to US for anything military related? Just asking, bro.


humbly, if its between a yes and no, i would say yes. Why? well i noticed a pattern that those countries that actually receive considerable US military aid and support dont win wars? Look at it:

Saudi Arabia
Israel
Iraq
Ukraine
Turkey
UAE
Phillippines
Pakistan

All of these countries are bogged down in some other countries and dont win wars...and whats the constant? US military support.

Reactions: Like Like:
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1


----------



## Wergeland

The SC said:


> Russia uses rocket launchers with more accurate shells than the Grad, perhaps the Aragon:



Looks to me like some kind of guided rockets.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## _Nabil_

Viet said:


> Talking about brainwashing
> You are from India?
> You say so because you profit from cheap oil. Russian oil tankers have no customers in Europe. Instead of unloading in Europe they sell oil for cheap to Asia. Good for you. However bad for Putin. That’s a longer way but less revenues.
> 
> 
> View attachment 845353


Bad news for you


----------



## Paul2

Raffie said:


> And we can make Russian areas with more than a 1ppl per km² areas radioactive just like the Chernobyl's Red Forrest for the next 25,000 years : big arsenals mean that you can do airbursts with very small fallouts, destruction is maximized but you can re-use areas after 2-3 weeks... A medium nuke power like us would be way more nasty :
> 1. We understate our real arsenal
> 2. It is optimized to maximize fallouts : a 100 kilotons one is designed to kill as much as a 1 megaton one, no through thermal effect, but through acute radiation syndrome
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. If we have to use it, we won't do airbursts: surface burst may do only half the damages but anything into the fireball is neutron-activated, and at n millions of °C (I've heard about as high as 400M °C), all the crap gets airborne in the shroom, and again, we're speaking about enhanced radiation effect nukes, not your Nukemap's "standard" thermonuclear, and from recoupment of stuff I could learn about in the old days I was "subterranean" in areas you wander in wearing a Hazmat type B and a dosimeter, although not said publicly because of the ecologists, these are very probably "salted" bombs...
> 
> You've got it, the worst case scenario may not forcefully being the cretin of the Kremlin with his firecrackers doing big booms at 10,000-20,000 ft altitude, it's small ones used in surface bursts... Or big ones too... In fact, the results would look like the infamous 1956 nuke war plans except that rule out all the areas that pulled out from Russo/Soviet sphere and move the strikes into what's left : the 1st implies less than 200 blasts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 2nd about 500-550
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you know, with already 320 MIRVs at sea 24/7/365 in peace time, which are doubled in case of tensions added with the ALCMs getting prepositionned
> So, you know, when STATE-OWNED Rossiya-1 TV does Russian "humour" with such nuclear threats when their Waffen-SS orcs are murderind, raping Ukrainians at the same they're destroying and looting their homes and real-estate.
> Moreover, Rossiya-1 are liars : the RS-28 "Satan-II" are set to replace the 46 R-36M2 "Satan" in the silos of the 13th Red Banner Rocket Division at Yasny, Orenburg Oblast and of the 62nd Rocket Division at Uzhur, Krasnoyarsk Krai, all with 10x 1Mt MIRVs, all the R-36M2 Mod.6 with a single 20Mt warhead were decommissioned in 2009 and the combustible likely burnt as fuel in NPPs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, did you noticed how Bobo is loudmouthed while Macron speaks softly? Meanwhile, the 4 Triomphant-class submarines are at sea, the EC91 Gascogne's Rafales are not on their "home" base and IMHO, into 3 months, there was more time than it is needed to put what's in cocoon storage or maintenance back to active service and replace SCALP or MdCN conventional warheads with something else, then, I can't tell if there are still tactical ones available but there were rumours that the Exocet ASM could receive a tactical-nuke as soon as the early 80's. I didn't verified if the CVN is at sea and if its transponder is on or off
> And now the nasty part, the M51.3 has received the 3rd gen stealth ONERA's DEMR boss spoke about in 2009 since Hune 2020, Rafales are being upgraded to the F4 standard for 1 year+ now and the first to receive upgrades are always the EC91 and the Navy's squadrons since they carry the ASMPA-R, so forget about detecting these all even using the 29B6 Konteyner or the Voronezh radars, the fleet of Soviet spy sats are long gone and even if there were SAR radars, these would detect nothing, MdCN, SCALP and ASMPA-R are stealth although neither using 2nd gen like Rafale F3 or French navy vessels nor 3rd gen as M51.3 or Rafale F4, so their presence may be spotted under some conditions you will update the cruise missile's waypoints in order to avoid these.
> 
> Now don't ask me what's left in storage/set to be dismantled, I have no idea, but I'm not the only one to estimate that 350-500 would be realistic, this would imply a total arsenal of about 1000-1200 warheads available under a month [any way, even the peace-time "active" arsenal can already hurt very badly) and it's been more than a month since Vladolf Putler said he was Putin ruSSian strategic forces in alert, so make no mistake, France is in "DEFCON2" and if the Kremlin's Gremlin dares to attack an EU country, he perfectly knows about EU's constitution art 42.7, he perfectly knows about the French doctrine which implies that even a conventional war would meet a nuclear response, and he perfectly knows that it has been extended to the EU, and since that his friend Marine Le Pen hasn't been elected, there's no way to see France giving up this doctrine or pull out from NATO, or even pulling out from integrated command again [any way, French strategic forces are NOT part of NATO, moreover, her party is on the razor's edge and her too, they're in a judiciary turmoil, even the EU is suing them]...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So yup, even if not hammered in the MSM, Finland is absolutely under the French nuclear umbrella, so is Cyprus, in case of Ankara's Gollum forgot about it, as well as the Baltic States and you will notice that there is no silo in France, then, since all has switched to optic fiber, forget about breaking the command chain with EMP.
> Then yeah, Putler can surely wipeout France and the UK with his firecrackers, but with what would be left of ruSSia, added with an agricultural zone rendered radioactive for thousands of years, well, how long those in the Moscow's or St.Pete's subways dug 100m below the surface will survive? Even he ruSSian army's rations are long pas shelves dates, 20% of its budget is embezzled, ruSSia is corrupted from the top to the bottom, so don't expect civilian defense going better, you can be sure that if there was stockpiles of canned food in subways' storage, these are gone for long, and I don't think there are hydroponics. Expect something like Enki Bilal's _"Bunker Palace Hotel"_ for the elites which will end TARFU in it, and add a good 600-1000 rad/h on the surface...
> 
> Now, if you want to wipe out, it's not a few of Putler's firecrackers : with a 1 megaton airburst, you can expect
> such damages:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NUKEMAP by Alex Wellerstein
> 
> 
> NUKEMAP is a mapping mash-up that calculates the effects of the detonation of a nuclear bomb.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nuclearsecrecy.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (you may have to re-detonate as it will show up as a surface burst, thus minimizing the wipe-out features by about 50%)...
> When Rossiya-1 one brags about a single Sarmat wiping out the UK, this is utter BS !!! If the wind helps, the 10x 1 megaton MIRVs may cover about 20,000-30,000 km² at 1 rad/h, but the usual winds are not so fallout-spread friendly.
> This is not wiping out, it's making it radioactive with surface blasts  If you truly want to wipe out the UK, you need to use cose to 500x 1 Megaton warheads, in other terms, the whole fleet of 46 R-36M2which NATO calls "Satan" or its upcoming successor, the RS-28 Sarmat which NATO calls "Satan-II", or you'd need about 500 Topol-M with a single warhead, thus there are only 60 silo-based Topol-M and 18 TELs...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are only 36 road mobile older Topols which are being phased out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for the RS-24 Yars which is MIRVed: 136 road-mobile and 14 silo-based missiles are deployed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This implies you're no more in a city-buster strategy.
> Frankly, when the Sarmat/Sineva factory did burn a few years ago, I believed Putin had grown a brain and did his McNamara, but ruSSian style...
> Since the Sarmat is to finally replace the R-36M2, and according to the fact he's wiping out cities again while proffering nuclear threats, unfortunately, he obviously didn't broke up with the Soviet/Nazi barbarian issues of terrorizing populations...
> The bulk of the arsenal is submarine based, with 5 Borei and a Typhoon totally 100 RSM-56 Bulava with 6 MIRVs each (600 warheads), and 7 Delta IV with a total of 112 R-29RMU Sineva and so 448 MIRVs
> But considering that the Sinevas as well as the R-36 Tsyklon or the Sarmat are liquid-fuelled, don't bet on a 100% launch success, if some dude didn't managed to sell the fuel  When you know that in St.Pete, the best Vodka is sold by the Ru-Air Force dudes and analysis have shown there is kerosene in, I'd definitively avoid vodka sold by the submariners or by the 13th and 62nd rocket divisions: you probably have hydrazine in
> They're not even able to put ERA bricks on their tanks, the body armours are so long past shelf-dates that non-AP rounds pierce through, and visibly, if the Arena active protection system works, the 1600+ tanks and 3000+ IFV/APC destroyed by Ukraine didn't received it more than ERA, while, during latest Hezbollah attack into Israel, the two Kornet-E launched against an Israeli MRAP were intercepted by Trophy LV...
> 
> Oh, BTW, Turkey complains that S-400 is barely useless... So, you know, I use the word "firecrackers" deliberately about ruZZian nuclear arsenal... Oh, for sure, it may do some damages, but you can be near certain that the French arsenal, and maybe even the Israeli arsenal if Colin Powell and Jimmy Carter didn't lied, can hurt freaking bad, much badly than many are willing to think...
> 
> As we are, the fully loaded 100Mt Tsar Bomba in a surface burst would have spread fallouts over about 500,000km² with about 1.1km³ of ground vaporized and made radioactive with a mushroom cloud between 40 and 53km altitude... Imagine that, since the location is classified, and likely in some bunker, some wise ruSSian general targets this bunker with a Topol-M in a surface burst... 30t of mil-grade Pu239 at 20 kt/kg=> 600 megatons, add 1 NPP for less than 10,000km² with, for the most of them, 4x 3.8GWth reactors and it's impossible to estimate the quantity of antimatter in storage, the only thing is that with 10µg, it's said having enough energy to go to Mars and back, and 1g = 43 kilotons => 2150x more powerful than Pu239...
> 
> I'd be very careful if I was into using nuclear weapons against France which is the most denuclearized country on the planet: there might be some unwanted side effects like a nuclear winter, a nuclear disaster of apocalyptical proportions, who knows, maybe a gigantic hole in the Earth's crust of the level of the Oruanui VEI-8 eruption if not worse, some dude at the Large Hadron Collider may even decide to lift all securities and unleash a small blackhole which will grow and grow at the point after some time it will eat the solar system or more...
> 
> So, as you see, I definitively do not fear Putler's arsenal, he's a nuclear clown, ruSSia is a paper tiger
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and I'm positive with a direct NATO intervention in Ukraine to kick his orcs out, period!
> He can always use one of his firecrackers as a dildo, he'll surely enjoy it more than Hermann Goering enjoyed what his great dane dog had to offer...



Only silo based missiles are really first strike grade - only they can be fired within minutes. Everything else is 2nd strike, or follow up to 1st strike, to finish an enemy.

If they fire everything they can physically fire, Russia gets 1500 warheads. Realistically, even a preplanned attack will see 800 warheads launched at most, if they really want to committ to all in attack on both EU, and USA.

Given that Russia will reserve something for China, and the fact we observed that they pick missiles from Siberian bases, and move them to the West for drills across the whole country, rather than firing missiles already there, they will only have missiles in European part of Russia firing.

300-600 warheads instant launch, 200 more within 30 minutes. Nowhere near to even blunt NATO's conventional forces. There are more than 1000 military sites in France only.

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## Nuclear Clown

925boy said:


> why would Russia need to "compensate" the loss of Europpean markets when European markets will never stop buying from Russia? This is a fake hypothetical you just slipped in here will never exist in reality.


The new generation of Siemens nuclear turbines has a 60% efficiency vs. 35% for the previous one. Putin knows it well, he used shell companies in order to buy 3 of these so he could supply electricity to Crimea, Donbass and Luhansk without having to build a new NPP...
Take the typical 3.817GWth EPR reactor, the production jumps from 1.362GWe (max) to 2.29GWe... 
Thanks to Putler, all those antinuclear useful-idiots and other ecologists and pacifists who once were Soviet-funded have a brutal back-to-reality shock... These idiots managed to have the Superphénix fast-breeder closed which was absolutely dumb since it was burning nuclear wastes!!! Yup, nuclear is a renewable energy: fast breeders create more fuel than they burn too








Superphénix - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




Time to mass build the new EPR-2 and many Superphénix too
Now guess why Putin backs far-right Marine Le Pen in France and backed Brexit? It's not just to have no nuclear powers in the EU: France is a jaw-dropping nuclear powerhouse, most of these NPPs have 4x 3.8GWth reactors:




But this is without counting the shale gas basins! 




And there's still a lot to do with hydroelectric, geothermal, wind turbines, solar panels...
BTW, for the 2019-2020 and 2020-2021 winters, I ended with high gas bills, despite I had already done some serious isolation works... I went much further during the last summer... As during fall, it was announced that gas would go up +57%, I told to myself "they can go to hell!", I decided to wear warm clothes in the house, and just used an electric heater when it became unbearable or warmed the kitchen with the gas at full power while cooking... As a result? Energy bills divided by 12!!! BTW, there were no issues with sub zero temperatures, the problem is when it rains : it makes the large balcony a true heat-pump, draining the house warmth to the outside... I'll have to improve this in the coming months.
So... 🖕🏾 Putler. 
The EU is pulling out and we won't come back! And ruSSia is on an absolutely great path to be with the sanctions until it opts for civilization or breaks apart.
Actually, Putler's nuclear threats as well as threats on global food supply are just reinforcing the resolve and show we have a bully as a neighbour. It's not because we closed our eyes on some of his abuses that we are blind, and we're not into letting anyone bullying us, it's even why De Gaulle and Adenauer created the EU!!!


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527739179995648000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527736290006994944


jamal18 said:


> I believe that the last of the defenders have surrendered.
> 
> It is definitely over.



Yup. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527721528518901762

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527644452642332679
Some twitters claim that they learned from the video what kind of missile Russian militants fired at Lozova in the Kharkiv region.






They say it's X-22 aka Kh-22MP


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527718115265728516

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527661712219979781

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## Paul2

Raffie said:


> War is not sports game, it's all about big money!
> Putin's goal in Ukraine seems to take over the control on global food supply and use it as a global blackmail tool, it's becoming really obvious : ruSSian forces have already stolen millions of tons of wheat!



Fully on the same page as you. It's very evident now, Putin is bombing out Ukrainian industry, and these are not military factories.

Really, there is no politics to this conflict, only profit, and I mean personal profit of these 200 men who run Russian Federation.

Few know, but Ukraine was basically closest economic peer competitor to Russia.

I wrote on it few months ago: he invaded Ukraine for oil, and gas in the black sea.


Paul2 said:


> Explanation being simple, Russia being Russia, and wanting their land, as it did over centuries?
> 
> Russia been in the state of a mafia state for the last 20 years. If it isn't 20 years of mafia state influencing the national decision making, then what else really can?
> 
> To me it looks very obvious: Putin & Co. look at Ukraine and see a very weak state with
> 
> Huge wheat, and other grain exports
> Military equipment exports
> Machinery
> Metallurgy
> Gateway for drug shipment to Europe
> 40 million people to tax
> Rail access
> Conscripts (slaves)
> You can continue. Ukraine was basically an ideal victim.
> 
> He is not Genghis Khan, or Alexander. To me he reminds of a petty corporate takeover artist — types you see in abundance in the West, except they don't have armies, and nukes, and of course they flee the moment things stop going according to the plain.
> 
> I remember a cadre called Loudon Owen, who tried to seize Hanfeng Evergreen, and whom I had misfortune to cross in Canada.
> 
> He was a small time racketeer lawyer doing corporate shakedowns for activist investors.
> 
> And in one of his racketeering attacks, he bit more than he can chew.
> 
> Naive Chinese businessmen who were too lazy to Google his name, and read basics of Canadian corporate law appointed him as a silent chairman of Hanfeng Evergreen. Few years later it was found that he likely gave kickbacks to people who recommended, and voted him.
> 
> He dug up few minor accounting, and corporate governance inconsistencies, and went to Chinese owners threatening to "nuke them, and make them a second Enron" if they don't give him more stock. So, they gave him it. With few percents of the company, he had now a legal right, and more clout with other investors to go after the business.
> 
> He broke his promise, and disclosed these inconsistencies, and made a big drama about them. Then he positioned himself as a protector of small investors against "scary Chinese mafia," and took moneys of a number of naive investors to mount legal assault on the company... They never seen their investments, nor legal fund money again.
> 
> Chinese owners panicked, and fled to China, further legitimising Owen's claim that there is something fishy happening. At that time, it it was really nothing serious by Canadian legal standards.
> 
> The company was not able to pay its tiny debts simply because there been nobody to sign on their cheques, as the board was defunct. It was then when Chinese banks started investigating what was going on, and Owen happened to be in China at the moment, trying to arrest, and seize the fertilizes factory for himself. ICBC quickly figured out what was his trick, and turned the tables by successfully proving in court that the guy who is preventing the debt repayment is Owen himself.
> 
> I don't know what has happened next, but I read that guy returned to Canada, and been completely broke for few years, running from Hanfeng minority investors himself.
> 
> He didn't get a single dollar from a company, but out of spite, he went and f**ked up all other investors. He sued the shell of the company in Canada, of which he himself was a chairman, and naturally he got a default judgement, making the shell defunct, eliminating any chance for other minority investors to recover their money. It was a complete "If I can't have it, you can't either" move.
> 
> Just now I googled him, and it appears he spins himself as a "Crypto Venture Capitalist," trying to scam somebody again.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

SalarHaqq said:


> Incorrect, and ironically the ICRC itself, whose website you referenced, confirms this:
> 
> https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/resources/documents/interview/weapons-interview-170109.htm
> 
> In the words of Peter Herby, head of the ICRC's Arms Unit in a 2009 interview:
> 
> View attachment 845699
> 
> 
> White phosphorous can be an incendiary weapon indeed as explicitly stated by the ICRC, and when it is, it will be regulated by legal provisions governing the use of such weapons. Meaning that lobbing white phosphorous over areas with a concentration of civilians = *war crime*, unless there is a very clear and ostensible physical separation between said civilians and the military assets targeted by the white phosphorous.
> 
> End of story.


No, the article describes limitations on incendiary weapons.

Smoke Shells generate smoke, and then this part is applicable.





not the treaty on incendiary weapons.


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## Wergeland

This war shows that Europe has been sleepwalking under US protection.

It is clear that without the US, Europe neither has political cohesion or millitary coordination to stand against a Russian game in its own backyard.

Europe should have created a combined Armed Forces long time ago. While its economic and market power is Tier 1 together with USA and China, its hard power (millitary) and political side is very shaky. Without strong armed forces under single political rule, Europe will never achieve its goal of being a equal to the likes of US and China.

Sad but unfortunately also true

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## RescueRanger

2 months 3 weeks and 6 days later - Russia’s “special operation” has proved one thing - Russia is kaput!

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## Nuclear Clown

Paul2 said:


> Only silo based missiles are really first strike grade - only they can be fired within minutes. Everything else is 2nd strike, or follow up to 1st strike, to finish an enemy.
> 
> If they fire everything they can physically fire, Russia gets 1500 warheads. Realistically, even a preplanned attack will see 800 warheads launched at most, if they really want to committ to all in attack on both EU, and USA.
> 
> Given that Russia will reserve something for China, and the fact we observed that they pick missiles from Siberian bases, and move them to the West for drills across the whole country, rather than firing missiles already there, they will only have missiles in European part of Russia firing.
> 
> 300-600 warheads instant launch, 200 more within 30 minutes. Nowhere near to even blunt NATO's conventional forces. There are more than 1000 military sites in France only.


We can launch from submarines into 2 minutes... 
And remember, the M51.3 SLBMs absorb any form of radar waves since June 2020... 
Silo missiles may react fast but only with solid fuel missiles... If you keep liquid fuel permanently into a R-36M2, Sarmat or Sineva, you're insane... How long to fill the tanks of a 200 tons missile? 
Yeah, Putler can nuke, but ruSSian ABMs are nowhere near SM-3, Aster-NT bloc.2, THAAD, GMD, etc... 
Moreover, it won't make any difference if 1st or 2nd strike or if it took 10-12 minutes to some ASMPA-R to fly from the Baltic states to Moscow when, in the ruins of the city, there will be about 500-600 rad/h...
I just can tell you that there is no way to achieve a lock on the M51.3 before the MIRVs are released, M51 comes from Ariane-IV which has 113 successful launches on 116 and how long between a MIRV release and the blast? 20s? Even if their ABM aren't of the same crap unable to shoot down a 185km/h IAI Harop, you need to know the missile trajectory a while before the MIRVs are released to intend an interception with launches preferably before these are released, then if the Arrow-3 may discriminate between the real stuff and hundreds of inflatable decoys, then, IDK if the M51.3 has received some Rafale's SPECTRA subsystem that allows to project about 200 false-positive radar echoes...

No matter what Putler does, I can guarantee you that if he plays with his firecrackers and sleeps in his bunker, he'll end just like his rolemodel:

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## The SC

Urgent Russian Defense Minister Shoigu: American planes are flying over our borders more than before, and we are studying the possibility of targeting them with cruise missiles.
@soldier2017kg

Russian Defense Minister Shoigu: 12 military bases will be established on the western borders of Russia, against the backdrop of efforts to join Finland and Sweden in NATO
@soldier2017kg


Director of the Russian Space Agency: One missile of the "Sarmat" type can completely destroy countries.
@thingsfromtunis


We've come to the end of the adventure game with Biden's kid at the Azovstal factory.
The treasure is in the hands of our forces and we have the right to dispose of it.
Glory to Great Russia and President Putin
@RamzanKiadyrov

What happened at the Azovstal factory is only the first surprise, and there are many more surprises in the coming days.. We are playing with the United States and the West our way, not as they want.
@RamzanKiadyrov


We are ready to volunteer in defense of Russia
100 000 fighters from Iraq are readying to volunteer for Russia..
@YxLmV5


Deputy Chairman of the Russian Security Council: The West imposes crazy penalties on us and then asks us to provide them with food, because they are without brains and thinking
@soldier2017kg


China is negotiating with Russia a deal that may be historic in the oil world
@Cassan_Kozlov

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## Constantin84

RescueRanger said:


> 2 months 3 weeks and 6 days later - Russia’s “special operation” has proved one thing - Russia is kaput!
> 
> View attachment 845927


No!
The initial goal was to capture Azovstal and destroy the Azov battalion! 3 months,28000 dead Russians,1000 destroyed tanks,one flagship sunked later....it is done! Russia is a superpower and the world knows it!
And if you don't know it, they will use their one of a kind laser to saw continents in half...

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## oberschlesier

Wergeland said:


> This war shows that Europe has been sleepwalking under US protection.
> 
> It is clear that without the US, Europe neither has political cohesion or millitary coordination to stand against a Russian game in its own backyard.


Western Europe yes. Central Eastern Europe - not really. Europe has the Power, it simply needs to understands, it has it and the Russia is not really strong. It`s more psychology, Europe is super strong comparing to Russia.

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## Constantin84

The SC said:


> Urgent Russian Defense Minister Shoigu: American planes are flying over our borders more than before, and we are studying the possibility of targeting them with cruise missiles.


Targeting planes with cruise missiles, lol....and this guy runs the Russian military...hehe
Next they'll be targeting ships with tank shells,lel

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## gambit

925boy said:


> humbly, if its between a yes and no, i would say yes.


Excellent. That is all we need to know. For the record, according to military 'analyst' and 'expert' @925boy the US military is a 'loser' military and that no one should take anything we say/do seriously.

I do commend you for having the courage to speak your opinion. At least one other PDF member was too chickenshit to answer. Hopefully, others will take you as example and follow suit, and when I say 'others' I mean the military leaderships of other countries as well.

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## Wergeland

oberschlesier said:


> Western Europe yes. Central Eastern Europe - not really. Europe has the Power, it simply needs to understands it`s power and the real weakness of Russia.



I have alway been suspicious of NATO and EU eastward expansion. Some of my concern were proven right in todays environment.

Western Europe has all the ingredients, absolutely but its missing the chef. At best atm, it can only work as a well coordinated program of independent states with independent mentalities and armed forces. What happens if America goes full isolationist mode? Europe is forgetting that America is not a part of Europe and has its own internal life. Short of a united Army under single command and politicial leadership i cant see it being a Global Power it wants to be.


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## oberschlesier

Wergeland said:


> I have alway been suspicious of NATO and EU eastward expansion. Some of my concern were proven right in todays environment.


Why ? It was very benefiting for both sides. The Problem is, that Ukraine is not in NATO, otherwise, there would be no war.


Wergeland said:


> Western Europe has all the ingredients, absolutely but its missing the chef. At best now it can only work as a well coordinated program of independent states with independent mentalities and armed forces. What happens if America goes full isolation mode? Europe is forgetting that America is not a prt of Europe and has its own internal life. Short of a united Army under single command and politicial leadership i cant see it being a Global Power is want to be.


Western Europe. It`s not the cold war anymore. You have the UE right now.
I`m a fan of a united EU army which should happen, but it should take into account the wishes of the Eastern members of the EU, that really have a bigger potential than Russia, but see it as the main threat ( kinda the current war proves why )


----------



## Paul2

Raffie said:


> How long to fill the tanks of a 200 tons missile?



Silo based missiles are always filled

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527759213417603080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527734597424820224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527766078553657344

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## nangyale

Constantin84 said:


> Targeting planes with cruise missiles, lol....and this guy runs the Russian military...hehe
> Next they'll be targeting ships with tank shells,lel


You do realise that planes take off and land on something called an airbase or airfield.

That's the thing you target when you want to deny your enemy.

Haven't you heard that "the best place to destroy an airplane is on the ground".

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## Constantin84

nangyale said:


> You do realise that planes take off and land on something called an airbase or airfield.
> 
> That's the thing you target when you want to deny your enemy.
> 
> Haven't you heard that "the best place to destroy an airplane is on the ground".


They want to target the plane around their airspace in its base not when it's.....you know?....around their air space?....Russian military genius 🙄


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## Paul2

Raffie said:


> Yeah, Putler can nuke, but ruSSian ABMs are nowhere near SM-3, Aster-NT bloc.2, THAAD, GMD, etc...



You only need to protect your government, and super duper critical sites. For all intents, and purposes, even 1000 warheads will not be enough to even halve US military, and economic output.

They put 1000 warheads into military sites? Good! US has thousands of them, most only manned by less then a dozen men.

They want to "vaporize" cities? Besides top 10 cities, US has very small population density. They will need half the launch just to partially destroy them to render them unsuitable for continued habitation.

NATO is 1 billion people, and 1500 warheads cannot possibly kill more than 50M. Only 5% of population.

Russia, or China on another hand are super centralised countries. Officials there can't cook a pot of porridge unless commanded. Loss of the eunich class all living in imperial capital will paralyze the country. If eunichs are dead, or the party leadership along with them, it will take a few civil wars, coups, and a year+ of martial law to reestablish the most minimal semblance of control.


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## The SC

Missed the target or deception to get the tanks? 

Click on the link..it's funny somehow!

https://defense-arab.com/vb/data/video/483/483159-07f2bb9799961fdeecea24bcd8c21df9.mp4


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## nangyale

Constantin84 said:


> They want to target the plane around their airspace in its base not when it's.....you know?....around their air space?....Russian military genius 🙄


again read my earlier "the best place to destroy airplanes is on the ground".

That is when you are not afraid of escalation.

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## Constantin84

nangyale said:


> again read my earlier "the best place to destroy airplanes is on the ground".
> 
> That is when you are not afraid of escalation.


Let's just admit that the idiot doesn't know the difference between a AA and a cruise missile.


----------



## Wergeland

oberschlesier said:


> Why ? It was very benefiting for both sides. The Problem is, that Ukraine is not in NATO, otherwise, there would be no war.



Yes economically it made sense.
But strategically and millitarily, no. Because Eastern Europe is a liability in that regard. Again i am seeing this in the context of US umbrella. Like how far is US and major Western European nations wiling to sacrifice their own citizens and soldiers for a nation in eastern most parts, that are on the doorstep of Russia? There is a psychological treshold. We are not talking about nice words and wishful thinking that prevails during peactime. Because when war breaks out, reality starts to sink in. Why integrate so many new countries on the EU eastern border if you dont have a strong Army to protect them (leaving out US leadership and full spectrum NATO mobilization for now).


oberschlesier said:


> Western Europe. It`s not the cold war anymore. You have the UE right now.
> I`m a fan of a united EU army which should happen, but it should take into account the wishes of the Eastern members of the EU, that really have a bigger potential than Russia, but see it as the main threat ( kinda the current war proves why )



You just answered your first question. Its takes more political energy to cater to so many states and make eveybody happy. If Western Europe had a United political rule and united Army, eastward expansion of EU is a no brainer. But EU has really been riding on the coat tail of US millitary might.

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## The SC

Constantin84 said:


> Targeting planes with cruise missiles, lol....and this guy runs the Russian military...hehe
> Next they'll be targeting ships with tank shells,lel


Actually he said with winged missiles..meaning anti-aircraft missiles.. the translation was bad..

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## Constantin84

The SC said:


> Actually he said with winged missiles.. the translation was bad..


That makes sense
Doesn't matter though....one NATO plane shot in NATO or neutral airspace and we'll have a no fly zone in Ukr and the legacy Russkie AF shot down from the skies like flies. That's why they won't dare

They're up to their necks fighting Ukr, they don't have the stomach to fight a real, modern military.

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## SalarHaqq

A.P. Richelieu said:


> No, the article describes limitations on incendiary weapons.
> 
> Smoke Shells generate smoke, and then this part is applicable.
> 
> View attachment 845926
> 
> not the treaty on incendiary weapons.



The article *explicitly mentions white phosphorous*, and explains how under given circumstances *white phosphorous is an incendiary weapon, not a "smoke shell"*.











__





Phosphorous weapons – the ICRC's view


Peter Herby, head of the ICRC's Arms Unit, outlines the rules applicable to phosphorous weapons to explain the organization's approach to the issue.




www.icrc.org





Anyone can understand the above excerpt and its underscored segments.

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## Paul2

oberschlesier said:


> Why ? It was very benefiting for both sides. The Problem is, that Ukraine is not in NATO, otherwise, there would be no war.



There may well been war anyways. While the US congress has ratified NATO's founding document, many of its individual provisions aren't.

Many EU NATO members haven't even made article 5 into a law to this day, or did it in its most weak interpretation (consult to provide military aid within 60 days)

NATO charter is not too far ahead of the Budapest.

When Turkey shot down the Russian jet, the first thing EU heads did was to call each other, and assure that nobody will back Turkey's possible article 5 invocation. And Turks are NATO's No. 2 country.

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## The SC

Constantin84 said:


> That makes sense
> Doesn't matter though....one NATO plane shot in NATO or neutral airspace and we'll have a no fly zone in Ukr and the legacy Russkie AF shot down from the skies like flies. That's why they won't dare
> 
> They're up to their necks fighting Ukr, they don't have the stomach to fight a real, modern military.


I'm afraid they have prepared to fight NATO..Ukraine seems like a small game for them..

They know they can't beat NATO conventionally though.. but hey these guys have the Ultimate weapon and in huge quantities.. NATO also won't dare to escalate up there..

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527750059449802752


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## Constantin84

The SC said:


> I'm afraid they have prepared to fight NATO..Ukraine seems like a small game for them..
> 
> They know they can't beat NATO conventionally though.. but hey these guys have the Ultimate weapon and in huge quantities.. NATO also won't dare to escalate up there..


You must be blind
Fight NATO? Who? That circus stuck in the mud for the last 3 months? Only idiots could seriously apreciate the Russkie "army" after this shit show.....no sane country will ever buy a gun from them...

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## oberschlesier

Wergeland said:


> Yes economically it made sense.
> But strategically and millitarily, no. Because Eastern Europe is a liability in that regard. Again i am seeing this in the context of US umbrella. Like how far is US and major Western European nations wiling to sacrifice their own citizens and soldiers for a nation in eastern most parts, that are on the doorstep of Russia? There is a psychological treshold. We are not talking about nice words and wishful thinking that prevails during peactime. Because when war breaks out, reality starts to sink in. Why integrate so many new countries on the EU eastern border if you dont have a strong Army to protect them (leaving out US leadership and full spectrum NATO mobilization for now).
> 
> 
> You just answered the question to you first answer. Its takes more political energy to cater to so many states and make eveybody happy. If Western Europe had a United political rule and united Army, eastward expansion of EU is a no brainer. But EU has really been riding on the coat tail of US millitary might.


Why you asume the Eastern Europe is a liability in that regard? You kinda don`t see the potential of the countries in the Eastern flank. The countries of Central Eastern Europe have a bigger potential than Russia. The only difference is nuclear, which is as well one the goals of NATO, not to proliferate, otherwise a weapon would be not difficult to build.

Anyways, Russia is struggling in fighting the poorest land of Europe, which makes this Business purely academical.


----------



## Constantin84

oberschlesier said:


> Why you asume the Eastern Europe is a liability in that regard? You kinda don`t see the potential of the countries in the Eastern flank. The countries of Central Eastern Europe have a bigger potential than Russia. The only difference is nuclear, which is as well one the goals of NATO, not to proliferate, otherwise a weapon would be not difficult to build.
> 
> Anyways, Russia is struggling in fighting the poorest land of Europe, which makes this Business purely academical.


Because he's an idiot who thinks that EE belongs to his idol,herr Putler. He's upset that his masters army is being decimated, instead of those Eastern Europeans bowing to the fake tiger riding judoka

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527722915973963776


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## Wergeland

oberschlesier said:


> Why you asume the Eastern Europe is a liability in that regard? You kinda don`t see the potential of the countries in the Eastern flank. The countries of Central Eastern Europe have a bigger potential than Russia.



I see them as liability because neither they or Western Europe is united under single political rule and single armed forces. Again i am seeing this through a non-NATO lense. In a hypothetical situation where Europe has to stand up for itself, alone.



oberschlesier said:


> Anyways, Russia is struggling in fighting the poorest land of Europe, which makes this Business purely academical.



True Ukraine was poorest man in Europe but it has recieved massive political, economical and millitary help from Europe and USA, short of only boots on the ground. I wouldnt overestimate Russia, neither underestimate it looking at the history.


----------



## oberschlesier

Constantin84 said:


> Because he's an idiot who thinks that EE belongs to his idol,herr Putler. He's upset that his masters army is being decimated, instead of those Eastern Europeans bowing to the fake tiger riding judoka


yeah, Russia is the biggest country on the planet with 145M people, but it has to expand to be stable. I just think the internal policy there is kinda not effective

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## Nuclear Clown

Wergeland said:


> This war shows that Europe has been sleepwalking under US protection.
> 
> It is clear that without the US, Europe neither has political cohesion or millitary coordination to stand against a Russian game in its own backyard.
> 
> Europe should have created a combined Armed Forces long time ago. While its economic and market power is Tier 1 together with USA and China, its hard power (millitary) and political side is very shaky. Without strong armed forces under single political rule, Europe will never achieve its goal of being a equal to the likes of US and China.
> 
> Sad but unfortunately also true


At the same time, ruSSia is absolutely failing in its own backyard


Gomig-21 said:


> A still from one of the early March videos. Apparently, Russia has deployed the Su-57 on the periphery of the war zone & border while it's using some of the latest long-range missiles such as the R37M.
> 
> View attachment 845761
> 
> 
> View attachment 845762
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/tass_agency
> 
> 
> You know that was a term the Nazis used for the elimination of the Jews. They would call it "evacuation". When they secretly met at the famous villa in Berlin for the Wansee Conference run by Adolf Eichman and the brutal & savage Reinhard Heydrich and 15 members of the senior Nazi Party of the German gov. as well as representatives of the Interior Ministry, Foreign Ministry, Justice Ministry and Ministers of the Eastern Territories such as Poland, they discussed Hermann Goering's plan for the "Final Solution" and during the entire meeting, they would use the term "evacuate" to define the gassing and shooting and starving and whichever way they were going to kill off the Jews and all others in the concentration camps. Not once in the meeting that lasted several hours did they use the term "kill".


At the present day, the R-37M is only integrated to the MiG-31BM, I'm even dubious about the interest of integrating this on other platforms, it's probably the only potential asset that may be used against an AWACS or Tanker kept out from long range SAMs profile...
And what d'you want to do with a 600kg R-37M? It'd already impressive if this thing can pull a 20-24G manoeuvre. You need the quarter to dodge a missile. Even a basic trainer sailplane has no issues at pulling 6G, some competition ones are rated for 9G if not more... R-37M was designed to shoot down AWACS, bombers, tankers, cargoes and if you have some ruSSian SS war crimes urges, some airliners, you know, MH-17, South Korean Airlines flight 007... It's not an MBDA Meteor pulling 40G or a MICA-NG or IRIS-T pulling 50G... 
Unfortunately, UkrAF has no such platforms to shoot down while, since they can rely on NATO intelligence, the NOSTRADAMUS detects stealth objects like a B-2 from 3000km+ with 5km accuracy, and, according to Indian AF, the Su-57 is nowhere as stealth as announced ...




Time to consider Putin up a nice SAM trap to make UAC pay for the destruction of the An-225 Mryia by ruining the future sales of the Su-57... 
Once the Orcs kicked back into Mordor, the only thing Rosoboronexport will still be able to sell will be some Avtomata Kalashnikovas.

Stalin had no issues at teaming with Hitler, and he didn't needed the naZis to orchestrate the Holodomor in Ukraine and Moldova.
Putler speaks like naZis did, thinkslike naZis did and actslike naZis did.




So let me introduce you to a REAL na*Z*i






Wergeland said:


> This war shows that Europe has been sleepwalking under US protection.
> It is clear that without the US, Europe neither has political cohesion or millitary coordination to stand against a Russian game in its own backyard.
> Europe should have created a combined Armed Forces long time ago. While its economic and market power is Tier 1 together with USA and China, its hard power (millitary) and political side is very shaky. Without strong armed forces under single political rule, Europe will never achieve its goal of being a equal to the likes of US and China.
> Sad but unfortunately also true


At the same time, ru*SS*ia is absolutely failing in its own backyard.
We're advocating for a way more integrated EU defence policy but the issues come on one side from the little "Atlantists" who all hammer that the EU can't defend itself w.o. the Yankees, which is simply ridiculous : our cumulated armed forces have 50% more personnel, and we have more combat aircraft and of better quality than the Ru ones, when it comes to the Eurocanards, these are better than US jets.
AMX-Leclerc survived Konkurs and Kornet direct hits in Yemen with just some scratches and damages to optics, etc... 
But the main issue is Germany which, for historical reasons, insists to rely on soft power alone... Actually, it could be OK, they can even have a smaller army, all that would be necessary would be spending their 2%, we can organize the remainder, Let Germany be the good cop and France be the bad cop.


PakFactor said:


> It's a double edged sword taking Russian funds to pay Ukraine for reconstruction -- because what about the rest that was unnecessarily destroyed due to Western interference? This could set a precedence as the video mentioned violating private property rights, just because someone is close to someone and you take there assets. As for the Marshall Plan, good luck with inflation and all and we could be headed into a recession type situation down the road.


It was destroyed due to ru*SS*ian, not western interference! Ukraine is a SOVEREIGN NATION and MEMBER OF THE UN. ru*SS*ia has no business here and is acting in absolute violation of ALL international laws. If you have complaints, call Vladolf Putler, BTW, I let you guess who will have issues with food! This rascal is just blackmailing the whole third-world with an holodomor just like Stalin forced Ukraine to bow to the Soviets : by famine! 
So, Mordor army acts like the Waffen-*SS* or the Orcs, *while Putler is into starving the poorest on the planet*...
Actually, it's high time for a Flying Tigers air-regiment in Ukrainian Air Force, let's field serious aircraft including those able to bust S-400 batteries and enforce an absolute air superiority and nonetheless a no fly zone, but also a no drive zone and a no float zone...
Moreover, US ships can covertly demolish ruSSian spy satellites using the SM-3 where these can't detect ASAT launches.

If Putler was so concerned about an alleged oppression against Russian-speaking Ukrainians by some Nazis [funny fact, Zelenskyi is of a Russian-speaking family and is a Jew... How funny, the Azov battalion didn't tried to murder him], well, Putler should have done just like Israel : send special forces in protection and evacuate them to Russia just like the Spetsznaz evacuated Yanukovich!!! 
And don't tell me Russia lacks of room and has too much population : 




OK, such projection is a bit exaggerated, Russia's real size is about the half of Africa: 




The population is about the 10th of China and not even what France+Germany cumulate, and they don't even have scouted all available natural resources...




Actually, it's super-easy to migrate to Russia...
So, what's the point of Putler's expansionism?




What can Russia bring is this:




Guess why ru*SS*ian waffen-*SS *is looting things like washing machines? All those *SS *from Siberia have never seen one! Chechen are more advanced, they stole harvesting machines, but surely have pestered when they got that these freaking expensive stuff can be remotely blocked and have satellite tracking too!
Well not all Russians don't have toilets... Some even have $75,000 toilets in their aircraft...

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## The SC

Constantin84 said:


> You must be blind
> Fight NATO? Who? That circus stuck in the mud for the last 3 months? Only idiots could seriously apreciate the Russkie "army" after this shit show.....no sane country will ever buy a gun from them...


So why you don't attack them since you seem blinded by your dumb ideology more than logic, rationality and reality..

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## Wergeland

Raffie said:


> At the same time, ruSSia is absolutely failing in its own backyard



Conqouring land equal to size of Great Britain is hardly failing. It may have failed to take entire Ukraine in one go, if that was its initial intention. Regardless it looks like all Russian speaking areas in south Ukraine will be fully under Russian control, as of now.

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## Constantin84

Wergeland said:


> Conqouring land equal to size of Great Britain is hardly failing. It may have failed to take entire Ukraine in one go, if that was its initial intention. Regardless it looks like all Russian speaking areas in south Ukraine will be fully under Russian control, as of now.


Aren't you Russian trolls ashamed of yourselves sometimes? Conquering land the size of Britain? Since when did Russia conquer over 200.000 Square km? Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts are barely 50k Square km put together, they're not fully conquered yet,and a big chunk of them were allready under Russian ocupation before the invasion.

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## oberschlesier

Wergeland said:


> I see them as liability because neither they or Western Europe is united under single political rule and single armed forces. Again i am seeing this through a non-NATO lense. In a hypothetical situation where Europe has to stand up for itself, alone.


The EU is the potential( and pretty funtional ) single political rule and economic rule.
Militarly Europe has much more potential and will find a way via the EU in the end, 
Nothing unites so much as a commom enemy.

For eastern Europe, don`t worry, the Germans will defend the Lidls.

You assume, there would be no NATO, it`s very unlikely, otherwise you would have nuclear proliferation.




Wergeland said:


> True Ukraine was poorest man in Europe but it has recieved massive political, economical and millitary help from Europe and USA, short of only boots on the ground. I wouldnt overestimate Russia, neither underestimate it looking at the history.


Well, until now they got less Military help in USD, that is the yearly polish furniture export( very huge ). Now they are staring to get help with those 40B package. Before the war many Ukrainians were working in the EU, as the salaries were better, than in Russia, this is not help, rather better policy.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527502070445654021

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## Gomig-21

Raffie said:


> At the present day, the R-37M is only integrated to the MiG-31BM,



It has also been integrated on the Su-35 and the Su-57.



Raffie said:


> And what d'you want to do with a 600kg R-37M?



Who knows? They have their own protocols and apparently this thing was flying in Russian air space, not in Ukrainian air and could very well be performing defensive duties for any breach into Russian territory. You can't just exclude the simple scenarios and think you know exactly when and where and how any particular platform is used by any air force or military. They all have their own reasons.



Raffie said:


> It's not an MBDA Meteor pulling 40G or a MICA-NG or IRIS-T pulling 50G...



It's not comparable to those other ones in pulling Gs, but it is in range.

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## oberschlesier

Wergeland said:


> I wouldnt overestimate Russia, neither underestimate it looking at the history.


When it comes to History:
Well, Russia lost the war with Japan( 1905), Poland(1920), Finland(1940). The war with nazi Geramny they baerly won, with the help of the West.

Anyway, More important, when it comes to Ukraine, the Russian are breaking right now this:








Pereiaslav Agreement - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Polish geostrategists cannot really get out of their joy, how stupid this is.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527757515835965441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527747726397657089

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527728784824320000


----------



## WotTen

Meengla said:


> Western culture is too alluring for most of humanity.



The other factor is that Western products are usually built at higher quality standards than from other countries. You buy a German machine tool and it will probably be usable by your grandchildren!

In a sense, this is also a reflection of culture. Many places around the world consider it OK to cut corners -- what can you get away with if no one's looking -- but Western companies enforce higher quality standards.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527728609854562305

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527777804997120000


----------



## ckf

Wergeland said:


> This war shows that Europe has been sleepwalking under US protection.
> 
> It is clear that without the US, Europe neither has political cohesion or millitary coordination to stand against a Russian game in its own backyard.
> 
> Europe should have created a combined Armed Forces long time ago. While its economic and market power is Tier 1 together with USA and China, its hard power (millitary) and political side is very shaky. Without strong armed forces under single political rule, Europe will never achieve its goal of being a equal to the likes of US and China.
> 
> Sad but unfortunately also true


Have you consider that this proxy war, US ultimate goal is also to weaken EU as well. By planting division between Ukraine/former soviet block eastern europe now part of EU against Russia, seeds of malcontent will manifest into long term confrontational economic/political division within EU. Ultimate goal is to weaken Euro as a viable fiat currency against US dollar in the multi-polar world. Von der Leyen, Scholz, and Borrell still consider Americans as their friends even as Briexit was clearly planted by the Americans to weaken euro.


----------



## jhungary

__





Senate passes $40 billion in new aid to Ukraine, bill heads to Biden






www.msn.com





Dubbed "Game Changer " billed has passed by US Senate (86 to 11, you need 66% to pass a bill in Senate) despite Rand Paul best effort to block it from passing (Some people here even go so far saying the bill is dead, but then they probably did not know how US legislation work)

so 40 billions of aid incoming by the end of year. This will change the landscape of the Ukrainian battlefield seeing the aide the US current gave are in hundred of millions dollars each. This would be the motherload.

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## Brainsucker

Raffie said:


> At the same time, ruSSia is absolutely failing in its own backyard
> 
> At the present day, the R-37M is only integrated to the MiG-31BM, I'm even dubious about the interest of integrating this on other platforms, it's probably the only potential asset that may be used against an AWACS or Tanker kept out from long range SAMs profile...
> And what d'you want to do with a 600kg R-37M? It'd already impressive if this thing can pull a 20-24G manoeuvre. You need the quarter to dodge a missile. Even a basic trainer sailplane has no issues at pulling 6G, some competition ones are rated for 9G if not more... R-37M was designed to shoot down AWACS, bombers, tankers, cargoes and if you have some ruSSian SS war crimes urges, some airliners, you know, MH-17, South Korean Airlines flight 007... It's not an MBDA Meteor pulling 40G or a MICA-NG or IRIS-T pulling 50G...
> Unfortunately, UkrAF has no such platforms to shoot down while, since they can rely on NATO intelligence, the NOSTRADAMUS detects stealth objects like a B-2 from 3000km+ with 5km accuracy, and, according to Indian AF, the Su-57 is nowhere as stealth as announced ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to consider Putin up a nice SAM trap to make UAC pay for the destruction of the An-225 Mryia by ruining the future sales of the Su-57...
> Once the Orcs kicked back into Mordor, the only thing Rosoboronexport will still be able to sell will be some Avtomata Kalashnikovas.
> 
> Stalin had no issues at teaming with Hitler, and he didn't needed the naZis to orchestrate the Holodomor in Ukraine and Moldova.
> Putler speaks like naZis did, thinkslike naZis did and actslike naZis did.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So let me introduce you to a REAL na*Z*i
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At the same time, ru*SS*ia is absolutely failing in its own backyard.
> We're advocating for a way more integrated EU defence policy but the issues come on one side from the little "Atlantists" who all hammer that the EU can't defend itself w.o. the Yankees, which is simply ridiculous : our cumulated armed forces have 50% more personnel, and we have more combat aircraft and of better quality than the Ru ones, when it comes to the Eurocanards, these are better than US jets.
> AMX-Leclerc survived Konkurs and Kornet direct hits in Yemen with just some scratches and damages to optics, etc...
> But the main issue is Germany which, for historical reasons, insists to rely on soft power alone... Actually, it could be OK, they can even have a smaller army, all that would be necessary would be spending their 2%, we can organize the remainder, Let Germany be the good cop and France be the bad cop.
> 
> It was destroyed due to ru*SS*ian, not western interference! Ukraine is a SOVEREIGN NATION and MEMBER OF THE UN. ru*SS*ia has no business here and is acting in absolute violation of ALL international laws. If you have complaints, call Vladolf Putler, BTW, I let you guess who will have issues with food! This rascal is just blackmailing the whole third-world with an holodomor just like Stalin forced Ukraine to bow to the Soviets : by famine!
> So, Mordor army acts like the Waffen-*SS* or the Orcs, *while Putler is into starving the poorest on the planet*...
> Actually, it's high time for a Flying Tigers air-regiment in Ukrainian Air Force, let's field serious aircraft including those able to bust S-400 batteries and enforce an absolute air superiority and nonetheless a no fly zone, but also a no drive zone and a no float zone...
> Moreover, US ships can covertly demolish ruSSian spy satellites using the SM-3 where these can't detect ASAT launches.
> 
> If Putler was so concerned about an alleged oppression against Russian-speaking Ukrainians by some Nazis [funny fact, Zelenskyi is of a Russian-speaking family and is a Jew... How funny, the Azov battalion didn't tried to murder him], well, Putler should have done just like Israel : send special forces in protection and evacuate them to Russia just like the Spetsznaz evacuated Yanukovich!!!
> And don't tell me Russia lacks of room and has too much population :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, such projection is a bit exaggerated, Russia's real size is about the half of Africa:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The population is about the 10th of China and not even what France+Germany cumulate, and they don't even have scouted all available natural resources...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it's super-easy to migrate to Russia...
> So, what's the point of Putler's expansionism?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What can Russia bring is this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guess why ru*SS*ian waffen-*SS *is looting things like washing machines? All those *SS *from Siberia have never seen one! Chechen are more advanced, they stole harvesting machines, but surely have pestered when they got that these freaking expensive stuff can be remotely blocked and have satellite tracking too!
> Well not all Russians don't have toilets... Some even have $75,000 toilets in their aircraft...


I don't know what is your intention to post such a long pointless post like this. Are you a propagandist to discredit Russia or just want to troll people in here. But let me tell you. PDF is full of troll, but they're smart and grown up. A provocative troll post like yours won't spark the interest of the trolls in PDF. You need to feed them with smarter posts, like what @jhungary write if you want to make people leans their eyes on your thought. Or else people will think you as a kid like Appollon.

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## Paul2

Wergeland said:


> It is clear that without the US, Europe neither has political cohesion or millitary coordination to stand against a Russian game in its own backyard.


The Europe having no political cohesion or military coordination now is because US always been marshalling Europeans around for these matters, and now it refuses to.

SACEUR is American, and now he could've done way more things besides sitting in a bunker in Belgium.

Just look at NATO logistics in Europe. From people more intimately involved, I hear that European NATO members can barely ship even infantry gear on their own without logistics coordination from US military organs in Europe.


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## Oldman1

First they said the Ukrainians are giving stiff resistance because Russia is actually fighting NATO and not the Ukrainians. Now they claim the Ukrainians as former Russians are the one of the strongest and the best in the world because of Russian mentality.







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527366592668938250@jhungary @F-22Raptor @Wood

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## TruthSeeker

Institute for the Study of War


Russian forces are focusing on digging in and reinforcing defensive positions in Kharkiv and along the Southern Axis in preparation for Ukrainian counteroffensives, while the majority of active offensive operations remain confined to Izyum-Donetsk City




www.understandingwar.org





RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MAY 20​May 20, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF
*
Karolina Hird, Frederick W. Kagan, and George Barros
May 20, 5:30 ET
Russian forces are focusing on digging in and reinforcing defensive positions in Kharkiv and along the Southern Axis in preparation for Ukrainian counteroffensives, while the majority of active offensive operations remain confined to Izyum-Donetsk City arc and especially the Popasna-Severodonetsk area. *The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are creating secondary defensive lines on the Southern Axis, indicating that the Russian grouping in this area may be preparing for a major Ukrainian counter-offensive and a protracted conflict._ Russian forces reportedly are holding defensive positions north of Kharkiv City following the success of the Ukrainian counteroffensive since May 5 and have conducted limited spoiling attacks either to give Russian forces time to complete their redeployment back to Russia in good order or to allow reinforcements to arrive to defend territory in Kharkiv Oblast. Significant Russian offensive operations are confined to the area of Severodonetsk. Russian troops have made marginal gains to the north, west, and south of the city, especially around Popasna, in order to attempt to take control of Severodonetsk.
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces may have made marginal gains to the north, west, and south of Popasna in order to continue their offensive on Severodonetsk from the south.*
*Russian sources may be overstating the number of Ukrainian defenders who have been evacuated from Azovstal to either maximize the number of Russian prisoners of war who may be exchanged for Ukrainian soldiers or to avoid the embarrassment of admitting they have been locked into a months-long siege against only “hundreds” of Ukrainian soldiers.*
*Russian troops reportedly regained certain positions taken by the Ukrainian counteroffensive north of Kharkiv City.*
*Russian forces are likely preparing for a major Ukrainian counteroffensive and protracted conflict on the Southern Axis.*
*




We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.
ISW has updated its assessment of the four primary efforts Russian forces are engaged in at this time. We have stopped coverage of supporting effort 4, ”Sumy and northeastern Ukraine,” because it is no longer an active effort.:*

Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate main effort- Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
Supporting effort 1—Mariupol; 
Supporting effort 2—Kharkiv City;
Supporting effort 3—Southern axis.
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces conducted unspecified offensive operations in the direction of Slovyansk but did not make any confirmed advances on May 20.[ii] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian troops are attempting to erect a pontoon bridge over the Severskyi Donets River in the vicinity of Yaremivka, about 25 kilometers southeast of Izyum in the direction of Slovyansk.[iii] Russian forces additionally conducted artillery strikes on Dovhenke and Dolyna, both southeast of Izyum heading towards Slovyansk.[iv]
Russian forces reportedly intensified efforts to break through Ukrainian defenses around Popasna in order to push towards Severodonetsk from the south on May 20. Pro-Russian news sources reported that Russian forces made advances through Ukrainian lines of defense in three directions. Russian Airborne (VDV) forces reportedly took control of Volodymirivka and Lypove, and broke through Ukrainian defenses in Komyshuvakha, all north of Popasna.[v] Troops of the Russian ”Wagner” Private Military Company reportedly took control of Trypillya and Vyskrivka to the west of Popasna.[vi] Ukrainian sources noted that offensive operations are on-going in Vyskrivka.[vii] Russian forces additionally reportedly took control of Troitske, south of Popasna.[viii] Such reports are consistent with Ukrainian General Staff statements that the Russian grouping around Popasna is trying to take new frontiers in the area.[ix] NASA’s Fire Information for Resource Management (FIRMS) data, however, does not show a concentration of fires in this area, which may suggest that the Russian sources are exaggerating the scale or significance of the attacks, although the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence in this case.[x] The purported encirclement of the Popasna area may be an effort to break through Ukrainian defenses in order to provide support for the on-going battle for Severodonetsk, where Russian troops are making marginal gains and reportedly took control of Shchedryshcheve and Syrotne, just north of Severodonetsk.[xi]
Russian forces reportedly made marginal gains during ground attacks in Donetsk Oblast on May 20. Pro-Russian Telegram channels stated that Russian forces are trying to encircle a Ukrainian grouping around Svyatohirsk and are storming Yarova, both west of Lyman and within 10 kilometers of the border with Kharkiv Oblast.[xii] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are continuing offensive operations around Lyman and will likely continue to push west to meet Russian forces in Southern Kharkiv Oblast.[xiii] Russian forces are additionally conducting unsuccessful assault operations around Donetsk City in the vicinity of Avdiivka and Novobakhmutivka.[xiv]




*Supporting Effort #1—Mariupol (Russian objective: Capture Mariupol and reduce the Ukrainian defenders)*
Russian sources may be overstating the number of Ukrainian defenders who have been evacuated from the Azovstal Steel Plant as of May 20. Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu stated that nearly 2,000 Ukrainian fighters have left Azovstal since evacuations began, whereas the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) reported that it has registered only “hundreds” of Ukrainian prisoners of war.[xv] The discrepancy could result merely from delays in ICRC registrations or reporting. Official Russian sources may also be obfuscating the true number of evacuees for various reasons, however. The Russians might claim that they have captured more Ukrainian soldiers than they actually did in order to maximize the number of Russian prisoners that can be exchanged should they agree on a prisoner swap with Ukraine. The Russian leadership may also seek to avoid the embarrassment of admitting that their forces have been locked in a months-long siege by ”hundreds” rather than ”thousands” of Ukrainian defenders. Commander of the Azov Regiment Denis Prokopenko additionally stated that he has given the command to stop the defense of Mariupol to save the lives of the defenders of Azovstal, so evacuation numbers will likely rise in the coming days.[xvi]
The Ukrainian General Staff reports that Russian forces are continuing filtration measures in Mariupol.[xvii] Advisor to the Mayor of Mariupol Petro Andryushchenko additionally made a number of claims that ISW cannot independently verify. He asserted that Russian troops are planning to use filtration camps in Mariupol to forcibly mobilize men into the militia of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR).[xviii] He claimed that the Russian occupation administration in Mariupol is planning a census for men aged 18 to 50 to further force mobilization into the DNR.[xix] He also asserted that four schools in Mariupol are set to open by the end of May under ”Russian standards and Russian programs,” with a full implementation of Russian curricula reportedly slated for fall of 2022.[xx] Andryushchenko’s claims are consistent with overall trends of filtration and occupation processes in Mariupol that ISW has been able to verify through other sources, although these particular claims are unverified at this time.




*Supporting Effort #2—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces focused on regaining positions taken by Ukrainian forces during the counteroffensive north of Kharkiv City on May 20.[xxi] Russian forces are reportedly fighting in Vesele, Tsyrkuny, Zolochiv, and Ternova and may have recaptured Ternova and Rubizhne, although ISW cannot independently confirm these claims at this time.[xxii] Such efforts are likely spoiling attacks meant to disrupt the Ukrainian counteroffensive in northern Kharkiv Oblast with the intention of either buying Russian forces time to withdraw and redeploy to other axes of advance or to reinforce defensive positions to the north of Kharkiv City. Russian forces additionally continued to shell Kharkiv City and its environs, likely to further distract Ukrainian forces from cohering offensive actions towards the Russian border.[xxiii]
*




Supporting Effort #3—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces focused on strengthening existing defensive lines and creating secondary defensive lines on the Southern Axis but did not make any confirmed advances on May 20.[xxiv] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian troops are bringing engineering equipment to frontlines on the Southern Axis to construct a second line of defense, which likely indicates that Russian forces are preparing to defend against possible Ukrainian counter-offensives and settling in for protracted operations in Southern Ukraine.[xxv] Russian forces conducted rocket, missile, and artillery attacks against Kherson, Zaporizhia, Dnipropetrovsk, and Odesa Oblasts.[xxvi]
The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian special services are continuing to destabilize the situation in Transnistria through disseminating disinformation about the mining of social infrastructure and state institutions in Tiraspol, Bender, Dubossary, and Rybnytsia.[xxvii]




*Immediate items to watch*

Russian forces will likely complete their withdrawal from the vicinity of Kharkiv City but attempt to hold a line west of Vovchansk to defend their GLOCs from Belgorod to Izyum. It is unclear if they will succeed.
The Russians will continue efforts to encircle Severodonetsk and Lysychansk at least from the south, possibly by focusing on cutting off the last highway connecting Severodonetsk-Lysychansk with the rest of Ukraine.
Russian forces are likely preparing for Ukrainian counteroffensives and settling in for protracted operations in Southern Ukraine.
_

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## Wood

Western intelligence believes that Putin is involved in tactical decisions in the field on daily basis.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

This UK weirdo is out of control. Why do they have weirdo women who hardly understand foreign policy or wars in UK and in other EU countries?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527783225036312576

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## WotTen

Wood said:


> Western intelligence believes that Putin is involved in tactical decisions in the field on daily basis.



I am sure you realize that many of these 'intelligence reports' are made up by the propaganda department to boost war time morale. All sides do this.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

TruthSeeker said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Institute for the Study of War
> 
> 
> Russian forces are focusing on digging in and reinforcing defensive positions in Kharkiv and along the Southern Axis in preparation for Ukrainian counteroffensives, while the majority of active offensive operations remain confined to Izyum-Donetsk City
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.understandingwar.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MAY 20​May 20, 2022 - Press ISW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Download the PDF
> 
> *Karolina Hird, Frederick W. Kagan, and George Barros
> May 20, 5:30 ET
> Russian forces are focusing on digging in and reinforcing defensive positions in Kharkiv and along the Southern Axis in preparation for Ukrainian counteroffensives, while the majority of active offensive operations remain confined to Izyum-Donetsk City arc and especially the Popasna-Severodonetsk area. *The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are creating secondary defensive lines on the Southern Axis, indicating that the Russian grouping in this area may be preparing for a major Ukrainian counter-offensive and a protracted conflict._ Russian forces reportedly are holding defensive positions north of Kharkiv City following the success of the Ukrainian counteroffensive since May 5 and have conducted limited spoiling attacks either to give Russian forces time to complete their redeployment back to Russia in good order or to allow reinforcements to arrive to defend territory in Kharkiv Oblast. Significant Russian offensive operations are confined to the area of Severodonetsk. Russian troops have made marginal gains to the north, west, and south of the city, especially around Popasna, in order to attempt to take control of Severodonetsk.
> *Key Takeaways*_
> 
> _*Russian forces may have made marginal gains to the north, west, and south of Popasna in order to continue their offensive on Severodonetsk from the south.*_
> _*Russian sources may be overstating the number of Ukrainian defenders who have been evacuated from Azovstal to either maximize the number of Russian prisoners of war who may be exchanged for Ukrainian soldiers or to avoid the embarrassment of admitting they have been locked into a months-long siege against only “hundreds” of Ukrainian soldiers.*_
> _*Russian troops reportedly regained certain positions taken by the Ukrainian counteroffensive north of Kharkiv City.*_
> _*Russian forces are likely preparing for a major Ukrainian counteroffensive and protracted conflict on the Southern Axis.*_
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> _*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.
> ISW has updated its assessment of the four primary efforts Russian forces are engaged in at this time. We have stopped coverage of supporting effort 4, ”Sumy and northeastern Ukraine,” because it is no longer an active effort.:*_
> 
> 
> _
> Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
> Subordinate main effort- Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
> Supporting effort 1—Mariupol;
> Supporting effort 2—Kharkiv City;
> Supporting effort 3—Southern axis.
> _
> _*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
> Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
> Russian forces conducted unspecified offensive operations in the direction of Slovyansk but did not make any confirmed advances on May 20.[ii] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian troops are attempting to erect a pontoon bridge over the Severskyi Donets River in the vicinity of Yaremivka, about 25 kilometers southeast of Izyum in the direction of Slovyansk.[iii] Russian forces additionally conducted artillery strikes on Dovhenke and Dolyna, both southeast of Izyum heading towards Slovyansk.[iv]
> Russian forces reportedly intensified efforts to break through Ukrainian defenses around Popasna in order to push towards Severodonetsk from the south on May 20. Pro-Russian news sources reported that Russian forces made advances through Ukrainian lines of defense in three directions. Russian Airborne (VDV) forces reportedly took control of Volodymirivka and Lypove, and broke through Ukrainian defenses in Komyshuvakha, all north of Popasna.[v] Troops of the Russian ”Wagner” Private Military Company reportedly took control of Trypillya and Vyskrivka to the west of Popasna.[vi] Ukrainian sources noted that offensive operations are on-going in Vyskrivka.[vii] Russian forces additionally reportedly took control of Troitske, south of Popasna.[viii] Such reports are consistent with Ukrainian General Staff statements that the Russian grouping around Popasna is trying to take new frontiers in the area.[ix] NASA’s Fire Information for Resource Management (FIRMS) data, however, does not show a concentration of fires in this area, which may suggest that the Russian sources are exaggerating the scale or significance of the attacks, although the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence in this case.[x] The purported encirclement of the Popasna area may be an effort to break through Ukrainian defenses in order to provide support for the on-going battle for Severodonetsk, where Russian troops are making marginal gains and reportedly took control of Shchedryshcheve and Syrotne, just north of Severodonetsk.[xi]
> Russian forces reportedly made marginal gains during ground attacks in Donetsk Oblast on May 20. Pro-Russian Telegram channels stated that Russian forces are trying to encircle a Ukrainian grouping around Svyatohirsk and are storming Yarova, both west of Lyman and within 10 kilometers of the border with Kharkiv Oblast.[xii] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are continuing offensive operations around Lyman and will likely continue to push west to meet Russian forces in Southern Kharkiv Oblast.[xiii] Russian forces are additionally conducting unsuccessful assault operations around Donetsk City in the vicinity of Avdiivka and Novobakhmutivka.[xiv]_
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Supporting Effort #1—Mariupol (Russian objective: Capture Mariupol and reduce the Ukrainian defenders)*
> Russian sources may be overstating the number of Ukrainian defenders who have been evacuated from the Azovstal Steel Plant as of May 20. Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu stated that nearly 2,000 Ukrainian fighters have left Azovstal since evacuations began, whereas the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) reported that it has registered only “hundreds” of Ukrainian prisoners of war.[xv] The discrepancy could result merely from delays in ICRC registrations or reporting. Official Russian sources may also be obfuscating the true number of evacuees for various reasons, however. The Russians might claim that they have captured more Ukrainian soldiers than they actually did in order to maximize the number of Russian prisoners that can be exchanged should they agree on a prisoner swap with Ukraine. The Russian leadership may also seek to avoid the embarrassment of admitting that their forces have been locked in a months-long siege by ”hundreds” rather than ”thousands” of Ukrainian defenders. Commander of the Azov Regiment Denis Prokopenko additionally stated that he has given the command to stop the defense of Mariupol to save the lives of the defenders of Azovstal, so evacuation numbers will likely rise in the coming days.[xvi]
> The Ukrainian General Staff reports that Russian forces are continuing filtration measures in Mariupol.[xvii] Advisor to the Mayor of Mariupol Petro Andryushchenko additionally made a number of claims that ISW cannot independently verify. He asserted that Russian troops are planning to use filtration camps in Mariupol to forcibly mobilize men into the militia of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR).[xviii] He claimed that the Russian occupation administration in Mariupol is planning a census for men aged 18 to 50 to further force mobilization into the DNR.[xix] He also asserted that four schools in Mariupol are set to open by the end of May under ”Russian standards and Russian programs,” with a full implementation of Russian curricula reportedly slated for fall of 2022.[xx] Andryushchenko’s claims are consistent with overall trends of filtration and occupation processes in Mariupol that ISW has been able to verify through other sources, although these particular claims are unverified at this time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Supporting Effort #2—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
> Russian forces focused on regaining positions taken by Ukrainian forces during the counteroffensive north of Kharkiv City on May 20.[xxi] Russian forces are reportedly fighting in Vesele, Tsyrkuny, Zolochiv, and Ternova and may have recaptured Ternova and Rubizhne, although ISW cannot independently confirm these claims at this time.[xxii] Such efforts are likely spoiling attacks meant to disrupt the Ukrainian counteroffensive in northern Kharkiv Oblast with the intention of either buying Russian forces time to withdraw and redeploy to other axes of advance or to reinforce defensive positions to the north of Kharkiv City. Russian forces additionally continued to shell Kharkiv City and its environs, likely to further distract Ukrainian forces from cohering offensive actions towards the Russian border.[xxiii]
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Supporting Effort #3—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
> Russian forces focused on strengthening existing defensive lines and creating secondary defensive lines on the Southern Axis but did not make any confirmed advances on May 20.[xxiv] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian troops are bringing engineering equipment to frontlines on the Southern Axis to construct a second line of defense, which likely indicates that Russian forces are preparing to defend against possible Ukrainian counter-offensives and settling in for protracted operations in Southern Ukraine.[xxv] Russian forces conducted rocket, missile, and artillery attacks against Kherson, Zaporizhia, Dnipropetrovsk, and Odesa Oblasts.[xxvi]
> The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian special services are continuing to destabilize the situation in Transnistria through disseminating disinformation about the mining of social infrastructure and state institutions in Tiraspol, Bender, Dubossary, and Rybnytsia.[xxvii]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Immediate items to watch*_
> 
> 
> _
> Russian forces will likely complete their withdrawal from the vicinity of Kharkiv City but attempt to hold a line west of Vovchansk to defend their GLOCs from Belgorod to Izyum. It is unclear if they will succeed.
> The Russians will continue efforts to encircle Severodonetsk and Lysychansk at least from the south, possibly by focusing on cutting off the last highway connecting Severodonetsk-Lysychansk with the rest of Ukraine.
> Russian forces are likely preparing for Ukrainian counteroffensives and settling in for protracted operations in Southern Ukraine.
> _



This is nothing but a spamming on the site with that gibberish from ISW. But if you want to understand more about the people who is behind that site, here they are:







*Judea had declared a war on Germany in 1933
Judea has declared a war on Russia in 2014*

We're indeed seeing what Judea is cooking for Europe, West, and the rest of the world.

The entire West is a Judea plantation!

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## The SC

The US is expanding NATO “geographically” to reach the borders of Russia because it is simply planning to deprive the Russians of their ballistic capabilities from the fixed bases on the Russian land..

When the US missile shield is installed in Ukraine, Poland, Sweden and Finland, it can can easily hit any Russian missile in the 1st stage, which is the ascent stage of the ballistic missile, or at most at the beginning of the 2nd stage. The ballistic transition stage.. In these stages, the interception success rate exceeds 95% Estimated due to the weakness of the missile in terms of acceleration or ability to move away from the lower orbit of the Earth, as does a missile such as Satan I or the new Sarmat (Satan II), where it departs from the lower orbit of the Earth and heads to the poles of the Earth, from which it is inferred on the target and revolves around the pole of the Earth until it reaches directly above it...

This is a simplified explanation of the importance of the geographical expansion of NATO to the proximity to Russia..

On the other hand.. It is very clear that the Russian ballistic missiles constitute a great source of concern for the US and the EU, because of which all the past years were invested in forming and expanding the NATO alliance in order to neutralize this danger or at least reduce it.

It mean that despite its large bases in Europe and its proximity to the borders of Russia, the US still does not feel completely safe.. and for a good reason beyond its capabilities; The area of Russia is more than 17 million km. The Russians can simply rely on the bases in the city of Yekaterinburg, which is tens of thousands of kilometers from the European borders, or even the Ural region in central Russia.

Russia is not the size of France or Britain, because its area is very large, and it can launch the Topol or Sarmat missile at distances that are impossible for the American missile shield to intercept..

Then this question arises: why do some countries justify all of America's actions and its provocation to the Russians near their borders?..and when Russia intervenes to protect its national security, it is demonized..

The matter is similar to all the wars that the US carried out in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya and many other lands, but it is different now because the Russians are not weak like those countries..

So as a neutral and rational person, I prefer that there will be a multipolar world on this planet as nature made the north and south pole to balance things out and insure polarity and thus equilibrium..

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## The SC

Russian Foreign Ministry: We will start a new phase of our military operations in Ukraine..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527782525300613122

The ruble jumped as much as 9% against the euro, hitting its strongest level since June 2015. The ruble is by far the best performing currency in 2022..


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## Chen Jie

gambit said:


> Let me explain to you about realpolitik: China *WILL* screw Russia over just like Venezuela.


So how are we screwing them? Do they get killed or invaded? We are facilitating trade for them to get dollars, if they start using rmb, it would be smoother, its just business Jose, we don't owe anybody anything, we are risking our ties with the West for Russia because of geopolitical considerations. Without China, Russia would have collapsed overnight. They are even getting chips from us now.



The SC said:


> The US is expanding NATO “geographically” to reach the borders of Russia because it is simply planning to deprive the Russians of their ballistic capabilities from the fixed bases on the Russian land..
> 
> When the US missile shield is installed in Ukraine, Poland, Sweden and Finland, it can can easily hit any Russian missile in the 1st stage, which is the ascent stage of the ballistic missile, or at most at the beginning of the 2nd stage. The ballistic transition stage.. In these stages, the interception success rate exceeds 95% Estimated due to the weakness of the missile in terms of acceleration or ability to move away from the lower orbit of the Earth, as does a missile such as Satan I or the new Sarmat (Satan II), where it departs from the lower orbit of the Earth and heads to the poles of the Earth, from which it is inferred on the target and revolves around the pole of the Earth until it reaches directly above it...
> 
> This is a simplified explanation of the importance of the geographical expansion of NATO to the proximity to Russia..
> 
> On the other hand.. It is very clear that the Russian ballistic missiles constitute a great source of concern for the US and the EU, because of which all the past years were invested in forming and expanding the NATO alliance in order to neutralize this danger or at least reduce it.
> 
> It mean that despite its large bases in Europe and its proximity to the borders of Russia, the US still does not feel completely safe.. and for a good reason beyond its capabilities; The area of Russia is more than 17 million km. The Russians can simply rely on the bases in the city of Yekaterinburg, which is tens of thousands of kilometers from the European borders, or even the Ural region in central Russia.
> 
> Russia is not the size of France or Britain, because its area is very large, and it can launch the Topol or Sarmat missile at distances that are impossible for the American missile shield to intercept..
> 
> Then this question arises: why do some countries justify all of America's actions and its provocation to the Russians near their borders?..and when Russia intervenes to protect its national security, it is demonized..
> 
> The matter is similar to all the wars that the US carried out in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya and many other lands, but it is different now because the Russians are not weak like those countries..
> 
> So as a neutral and rational person, I prefer that there will be a multipolar world on this planet as nature made the north and south pole to balance things out and insure polarity and thus equilibrium..


Well said, how come all the hoohah when it's Ukraine but not Iraq, Afghanistan or Libya?


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## A.P. Richelieu

SalarHaqq said:


> The article *explicitly mentions white phosphorous*, and explains how under given circumstances *white phosphorous is an incendiary weapon, not a "smoke shell"*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phosphorous weapons – the ICRC's view
> 
> 
> Peter Herby, head of the ICRC's Arms Unit, outlines the rules applicable to phosphorous weapons to explain the organization's approach to the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.icrc.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone can understand the above excerpt and its underscored segments.



I suggest you reread the sentence about generating smoke.
You seem to believe that smoke shells do not generate smoke. Otherwise this ”explanation” has a conflict with itself.

An explanation of a treaty that conflicts with the treaty has lesser stance than the treaty.


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## WotTen

ckf said:


> Most chinese people don't hate the west, CCP doesn't hate the west...Stop spreading hatred, which is truly disgusting.



That is true. China was perfectly happy to share prosperity with the rest of the world because it wants rich customers everywhere for its products.

This China v/s West propaganda is spread by the US administration and media because they are threatened by China's rise. They did the same to Japan last century when it seemed like Japan was getting too big for its boots.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527804109063168001


America and the West devised a plan to weaken Russian forces in Ukraine, but the result was exactly the opposite.

I am very happy that they will very much regret it.
@RamzanKiadyrov




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527822377085706241

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527726435825336320
Severodonetsk

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527732614576189441


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527730498377760769

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527715411281813511


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527714893658464256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526677317791191041

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## SalarHaqq

A.P. Richelieu said:


> I suggest you reread the sentence about generating smoke.
> You seem to believe that smoke shells do not generate smoke. Otherwise this ”explanation” has a conflict with itself.
> 
> An explanation of a treaty that conflicts with the treaty has lesser stance than the treaty.



The International Committee of the Red Cross rejects that contention. It is explicit about white phosphorous having to be considered a potential weapon according to the treaty.

Why, is explained in minute detail under the below link by the ICRC's competent official, using pristine rational argumentation:





__





Phosphorous weapons – the ICRC's view


Peter Herby, head of the ICRC's Arms Unit, outlines the rules applicable to phosphorous weapons to explain the organization's approach to the issue.




www.icrc.org





When it comes to the exegesis of a treaty, to what the formulation of its provisions implies in practice, the words of a legal expert carry superior weight.

And this basically confirms the point about legal experts insisting that white phosphorous does fall under the restrictions applying to incendiary weapons the moment it is actually used as one, rather then as a mere smoke generating tool.


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## Apollon

925boy said:


> why would Russia need to "compensate" the loss of Europpean markets when European markets will never stop buying from Russia? This is a fake hypothetical you just slipped in here will never exist in reality.



Europe does stop. Oil embargo comes soon, gas is phased out

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## Viet

Putin seeks to increase the number of soldiers by raising the ages.
Previously the age was set between 18-40 years for Russians, 18-30 years for foreigners.
Now that limits are lifted as per Reuters and Duma parliament.
More elder soldiers will be sent to the front.





Binh lính Nga diễu hành qua Quảng trường Đỏ ở Moscow tại lễ duyệt binh kỷ niệm 77 năm ngày chiến thắng phát xít Đức trong Thế chiến hai. Ảnh: Reuters
"Đối với việc sử dụng vũ khí chính xác cao, việc vận hành vũ khí và thiết bị quân sự bởi các chuyên gia có chuyên môn cao rất cần thiết. Kinh nghiệm cho thấy, các binh sĩ trở nên như vậy ở độ tuổi 40 – 45", trích giải thích trên trang web của Duma quốc gia.

Theo Reuters, Nga hiện chỉ cho phép các công dân từ 18 - 40 tuổi và người nước ngoài từ 18 - 30 tuổi đăng ký nhập ngũ lần đầu để phục vụ quân đội nước này.


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## Viet

_Nabil_ said:


> Bad news for you
> 
> View attachment 845897


So what
Instead of unloading oil at Rotterdam, russian ships must take long way, half the globe to China. That’s not win win, that’s lose lose.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> First they said the Ukrainians are giving stiff resistance because Russia is actually fighting NATO and not the Ukrainians. Now they claim the Ukrainians as former Russians are the one of the strongest and the best in the world because of Russian mentality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527366592668938250@jhungary @F-22Raptor @Wood


Then I will say the wrong "Russian" is on the Russian side.

I don't know how this would somehow make things better for Russia...... Becuase it said Russian is more incompetent than the "Pretend" Russian. Think about it , if China copy say "F-22" and perform better than the original F-22, then US said this is because they copy their original F-22, how or where does it mean it is better for the US, it just mean the original F-22 is crap, and they messed up the original idea??

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## kingQamaR

925boy said:


> then why has this same US lost every war since you and i were born? just fact checkingbro.




It depends.

If by “wars” you mean protracted, asymmetrical counter-insurgency operations like Afghanistan, I don’t think the US (or any other conventional force) has a good enough track record of winning to say they don’t win anymore is a bit of long stretch 

Salam qamar


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## gambit

kingQamaR said:


> It depends.
> 
> If by “wars” you mean protracted, asymmetrical counter-insurgency operations like Afghanistan, I don’t think the US (or any other conventional force) has a good enough track record of winning to say they don’t win anymore is a bit of long stretch
> 
> Salam qamar


That is a reasonable argument. However, this is a military oriented forum and unfortunately, most participants do not have military experience, which leaves personal biases and prejudices, not knowledge and experience, as basis for commentaries. He is content to believe that the US military is a 'loser' military. Let him be.

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## Wergeland

The SC said:


> The US is expanding NATO “geographically” to reach the borders of Russia because it is simply planning to deprive the Russians of their ballistic capabilities from the fixed bases on the Russian land..
> 
> When the US missile shield is installed in Ukraine, Poland, Sweden and Finland, it can can easily hit any Russian missile in the 1st stage, which is the ascent stage of the ballistic missile, or at most at the beginning of the 2nd stage. The ballistic transition stage.. In these stages, the interception success rate exceeds 95% Estimated due to the weakness of the missile in terms of acceleration or ability to move away from the lower orbit of the Earth, as does a missile such as Satan I or the new Sarmat (Satan II), where it departs from the lower orbit of the Earth and heads to the poles of the Earth, from which it is inferred on the target and revolves around the pole of the Earth until it reaches directly above it...
> 
> This is a simplified explanation of the importance of the geographical expansion of NATO to the proximity to Russia..
> 
> On the other hand.. It is very clear that the Russian ballistic missiles constitute a great source of concern for the US and the EU, because of which all the past years were invested in forming and expanding the NATO alliance in order to neutralize this danger or at least reduce it.
> 
> It mean that despite its large bases in Europe and its proximity to the borders of Russia, the US still does not feel completely safe.. and for a good reason beyond its capabilities; The area of Russia is more than 17 million km. The Russians can simply rely on the bases in the city of Yekaterinburg, which is tens of thousands of kilometers from the European borders, or even the Ural region in central Russia.
> 
> Russia is not the size of France or Britain, because its area is very large, and it can launch the Topol or Sarmat missile at distances that are impossible for the American missile shield to intercept..
> 
> Then this question arises: why do some countries justify all of America's actions and its provocation to the Russians near their borders?..and when Russia intervenes to protect its national security, it is demonized..
> 
> The matter is similar to all the wars that the US carried out in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya and many other lands, but it is different now because the Russians are not weak like those countries..
> 
> So as a neutral and rational person, I prefer that there will be a multipolar world on this planet as nature made the north and south pole to balance things out and insure polarity and thus equilibrium..



I agree with the rationale of power balance.
MAD crates stability. Thats a fact.

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## RescueRanger

Caption: A bird nest and laid an egg on the sill of a destroyed apartment in Kharkiv.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> Russian Foreign Ministry: We will start a new phase of our military operations in Ukraine..
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527782525300613122
> 
> The ruble jumped as much as 9% against the euro, hitting its strongest level since June 2015. The ruble is by far the best performing currency in 2022..
> 
> View attachment 845996




Russia demanding all gas sales to Europe based on the Ruble has strengthened its currency. The West has frozen Russian assets in their financial institutions and imposed sanctions on Russia, thinking they would cripple the Russian economy.

In return, Putin demanded all Russian gas sales to Europe would be done based on the Ruble. He's also demanded all mineral and food sales to EU would be done on the Ruble as well. This is where the strength that you see on the Ruble comes from. Today, every transaction between Russia and EU and other countries, except China, is based on the Ruble.

He's also made deals with China, the largest economy in the world, where Russia is selling more hydrocarbons based on the Yuan. Having this trade outside of US Dollar and Euro is another blow against the "fiat money".

The English-speaking world's effort to kill the Nord Stream 2 pipeline has really backfired on them. It seems Ukraine and the rest of EU have chosen to be the sacrificial lamb here.

This war is about saving the "fiat money" and the system that suffocates many countries and peoples. It looks like Putin and his Russian nation are the ones who are successfully resisting it.

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## A.P. Richelieu

SalarHaqq said:


> The International Committee of the Red Cross rejects that contention. It is explicit about white phosphorous having to be considered a potential weapon according to the treaty.
> 
> Why, is explained in minute detail under the below link by the ICRC's competent official, using pristine rational argumentation:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phosphorous weapons – the ICRC's view
> 
> 
> Peter Herby, head of the ICRC's Arms Unit, outlines the rules applicable to phosphorous weapons to explain the organization's approach to the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.icrc.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When it comes to the exegesis of a treaty, to what the formulation of its provisions implies in practice, the words of a legal expert carry superior weight.
> 
> And this basically confirms the point about legal experts insisting that white phosphorous does fall under the restrictions applying to incendiary weapons the moment it is actually used as one, rather then as a mere smoke generating tool.



The link simply confirms that Incendiary Weapons fall under the treaty of Incendiary Weapons.

”If munitions containing white phosphorous are used to mark military targets or to *spread smoke* then their use is regulated by the *basic rules* of international humanitarian law.”

I.E., they are not subject to the treaty on Incendiary Weapons.


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## kingQamaR

gambit said:


> That is a reasonable argument. However, this is a military oriented forum and unfortunately, most participants do not have military experience, which leaves personal biases and prejudices, not knowledge and experience, as basis for commentaries. He is content to believe that the US military is a 'loser' military. Let him be.



Since WWII, it is true, the US hasn't “won” any wars, at least not in the traditional sense. The thing is, the US in this time period has been so far above beyond all military contenders that it hasn't been necessary for you to go to war in the traditional sense. You have rivals, but no challengers. All of your military engagements have been policy wars, dictated by treaty or interest. It is not necessary to “win” such wars, just to convince all other combatants to stop fighting

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## MeFishToo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Russia demanding all gas sales to Europe based on the Ruble has strengthened its currency. The West has frozen Russian assets in their financial institutions and imposed sanctions on Russia, thinking they would cripple the Russian economy.
> 
> In return, Putin demanded all Russian gas sales to Europe would be done based on the Ruble. He's also demanded all mineral and food sales to EU would be done on the Ruble as well. This is where the strength that you see on the Ruble comes from. Today, every transaction between Russia and EU and other countries, except China, is based on the Ruble.
> 
> He's also made deals with China, the largest economy in the world, where Russia is selling more hydrocarbons based on the Yuan. Having this trade outside of US Dollar and Euro is another blow against the "fiat money".
> 
> The English-speaking world's effort to kill the Nord Stream 2 pipeline has really backfired on them. It seems Ukraine and the rest of EU have chosen to be the sacrificial lamb here.
> 
> This war is about saving the "fiat money" and the system that suffocates many countries and peoples. It looks like Putin and his Russian nation are the ones who are successfully resisting it.


The current “strenght” of the ruble is a facade. Its Russia manipulating the market and manufacturing demands for a currency nobody wants. Putin is taking an enormous risk using its biggest revenue, which is gas, as a bargaining chip to uphold this bridge for the ruble. If he insist that gas is payed in ruble, it will lead to renegotiation of contracts, and that will definitely lead to drastic reductions of the amount of gas being exported to the west - and possibly a total collaps of the the ruble and the russian economy.

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## Viet

Raffie said:


> And we can make Russian areas with more than a 1ppl per km² areas radioactive just like the Chernobyl's Red Forrest for the next 25,000 years : big arsenals mean that you can do airbursts with very small fallouts, destruction is maximized but you can re-use areas after 2-3 weeks... A medium nuke power like us would be way more nasty :
> 1. We understate our real arsenal
> 2. It is optimized to maximize fallouts : a 100 kilotons one is designed to kill as much as a 1 megaton one, no through thermal effect, but through acute radiation syndrome
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. If we have to use it, we won't do airbursts: surface burst may do only half the damages but anything into the fireball is neutron-activated, and at n millions of °C (I've heard about as high as 400M °C), all the crap gets airborne in the shroom, and again, we're speaking about enhanced radiation effect nukes, not your Nukemap's "standard" thermonuclear, and from recoupment of stuff I could learn about in the old days I was "subterranean" in areas you wander in wearing a Hazmat type B and a dosimeter, although not said publicly because of the ecologists, these are very probably "salted" bombs...
> 
> You've got it, the worst case scenario may not forcefully being the cretin of the Kremlin with his firecrackers doing big booms at 10,000-20,000 ft altitude, it's small ones used in surface bursts... Or big ones too... In fact, the results would look like the infamous 1956 nuke war plans except that rule out all the areas that pulled out from Russo/Soviet sphere and move the strikes into what's left : the 1st implies less than 200 blasts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 2nd about 500-550
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you know, with already 320 MIRVs at sea 24/7/365 in peace time, which are doubled in case of tensions added with the ALCMs getting prepositionned
> So, you know, when STATE-OWNED Rossiya-1 TV does Russian "humour" with such nuclear threats when their Waffen-SS orcs are murderind, raping Ukrainians at the same they're destroying and looting their homes and real-estate.
> Moreover, Rossiya-1 are liars : the RS-28 "Satan-II" are set to replace the 46 R-36M2 "Satan" in the silos of the 13th Red Banner Rocket Division at Yasny, Orenburg Oblast and of the 62nd Rocket Division at Uzhur, Krasnoyarsk Krai, all with 10x 1Mt MIRVs, all the R-36M2 Mod.6 with a single 20Mt warhead were decommissioned in 2009 and the combustible likely burnt as fuel in NPPs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, did you noticed how Bobo is loudmouthed while Macron speaks softly? Meanwhile, the 4 Triomphant-class submarines are at sea, the EC91 Gascogne's Rafales are not on their "home" base and IMHO, into 3 months, there was more time than it is needed to put what's in cocoon storage or maintenance back to active service and replace SCALP or MdCN conventional warheads with something else, then, I can't tell if there are still tactical ones available but there were rumours that the Exocet ASM could receive a tactical-nuke as soon as the early 80's. I didn't verified if the CVN is at sea and if its transponder is on or off
> And now the nasty part, the M51.3 has received the 3rd gen stealth ONERA's DEMR boss spoke about in 2009 since Hune 2020, Rafales are being upgraded to the F4 standard for 1 year+ now and the first to receive upgrades are always the EC91 and the Navy's squadrons since they carry the ASMPA-R, so forget about detecting these all even using the 29B6 Konteyner or the Voronezh radars, the fleet of Soviet spy sats are long gone and even if there were SAR radars, these would detect nothing, MdCN, SCALP and ASMPA-R are stealth although neither using 2nd gen like Rafale F3 or French navy vessels nor 3rd gen as M51.3 or Rafale F4, so their presence may be spotted under some conditions you will update the cruise missile's waypoints in order to avoid these.
> 
> Now don't ask me what's left in storage/set to be dismantled, I have no idea, but I'm not the only one to estimate that 350-500 would be realistic, this would imply a total arsenal of about 1000-1200 warheads available under a month [any way, even the peace-time "active" arsenal can already hurt very badly) and it's been more than a month since Vladolf Putler said he was Putin ruSSian strategic forces in alert, so make no mistake, France is in "DEFCON2" and if the Kremlin's Gremlin dares to attack an EU country, he perfectly knows about EU's constitution art 42.7, he perfectly knows about the French doctrine which implies that even a conventional war would meet a nuclear response, and he perfectly knows that it has been extended to the EU, and since that his friend Marine Le Pen hasn't been elected, there's no way to see France giving up this doctrine or pull out from NATO, or even pulling out from integrated command again [any way, French strategic forces are NOT part of NATO, moreover, her party is on the razor's edge and her too, they're in a judiciary turmoil, even the EU is suing them]...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So yup, even if not hammered in the MSM, Finland is absolutely under the French nuclear umbrella, so is Cyprus, in case of Ankara's Gollum forgot about it, as well as the Baltic States and you will notice that there is no silo in France, then, since all has switched to optic fiber, forget about breaking the command chain with EMP.
> Then yeah, Putler can surely wipeout France and the UK with his firecrackers, but with what would be left of ruSSia, added with an agricultural zone rendered radioactive for thousands of years, well, how long those in the Moscow's or St.Pete's subways dug 100m below the surface will survive? Even he ruSSian army's rations are long pas shelves dates, 20% of its budget is embezzled, ruSSia is corrupted from the top to the bottom, so don't expect civilian defense going better, you can be sure that if there was stockpiles of canned food in subways' storage, these are gone for long, and I don't think there are hydroponics. Expect something like Enki Bilal's _"Bunker Palace Hotel"_ for the elites which will end TARFU in it, and add a good 600-1000 rad/h on the surface...
> 
> Now, if you want to wipe out, it's not a few of Putler's firecrackers : with a 1 megaton airburst, you can expect
> such damages:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NUKEMAP by Alex Wellerstein
> 
> 
> NUKEMAP is a mapping mash-up that calculates the effects of the detonation of a nuclear bomb.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nuclearsecrecy.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (you may have to re-detonate as it will show up as a surface burst, thus minimizing the wipe-out features by about 50%)...
> When Rossiya-1 one brags about a single Sarmat wiping out the UK, this is utter BS !!! If the wind helps, the 10x 1 megaton MIRVs may cover about 20,000-30,000 km² at 1 rad/h, but the usual winds are not so fallout-spread friendly.
> This is not wiping out, it's making it radioactive with surface blasts  If you truly want to wipe out the UK, you need to use cose to 500x 1 Megaton warheads, in other terms, the whole fleet of 46 R-36M2which NATO calls "Satan" or its upcoming successor, the RS-28 Sarmat which NATO calls "Satan-II", or you'd need about 500 Topol-M with a single warhead, thus there are only 60 silo-based Topol-M and 18 TELs...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are only 36 road mobile older Topols which are being phased out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for the RS-24 Yars which is MIRVed: 136 road-mobile and 14 silo-based missiles are deployed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This implies you're no more in a city-buster strategy.
> Frankly, when the Sarmat/Sineva factory did burn a few years ago, I believed Putin had grown a brain and did his McNamara, but ruSSian style...
> Since the Sarmat is to finally replace the R-36M2, and according to the fact he's wiping out cities again while proffering nuclear threats, unfortunately, he obviously didn't broke up with the Soviet/Nazi barbarian issues of terrorizing populations...
> The bulk of the arsenal is submarine based, with 5 Borei and a Typhoon totally 100 RSM-56 Bulava with 6 MIRVs each (600 warheads), and 7 Delta IV with a total of 112 R-29RMU Sineva and so 448 MIRVs
> But considering that the Sinevas as well as the R-36 Tsyklon or the Sarmat are liquid-fuelled, don't bet on a 100% launch success, if some dude didn't managed to sell the fuel  When you know that in St.Pete, the best Vodka is sold by the Ru-Air Force dudes and analysis have shown there is kerosene in, I'd definitively avoid vodka sold by the submariners or by the 13th and 62nd rocket divisions: you probably have hydrazine in
> They're not even able to put ERA bricks on their tanks, the body armours are so long past shelf-dates that non-AP rounds pierce through, and visibly, if the Arena active protection system works, the 1600+ tanks and 3000+ IFV/APC destroyed by Ukraine didn't received it more than ERA, while, during latest Hezbollah attack into Israel, the two Kornet-E launched against an Israeli MRAP were intercepted by Trophy LV...
> 
> Oh, BTW, Turkey complains that S-400 is barely useless... So, you know, I use the word "firecrackers" deliberately about ruZZian nuclear arsenal... Oh, for sure, it may do some damages, but you can be near certain that the French arsenal, and maybe even the Israeli arsenal if Colin Powell and Jimmy Carter didn't lied, can hurt freaking bad, much badly than many are willing to think...
> 
> As we are, the fully loaded 100Mt Tsar Bomba in a surface burst would have spread fallouts over about 500,000km² with about 1.1km³ of ground vaporized and made radioactive with a mushroom cloud between 40 and 53km altitude... Imagine that, since the location is classified, and likely in some bunker, some wise ruSSian general targets this bunker with a Topol-M in a surface burst... 30t of mil-grade Pu239 at 20 kt/kg=> 600 megatons, add 1 NPP for less than 10,000km² with, for the most of them, 4x 3.8GWth reactors and it's impossible to estimate the quantity of antimatter in storage, the only thing is that with 10µg, it's said having enough energy to go to Mars and back, and 1g = 43 kilotons => 2150x more powerful than Pu239...
> 
> I'd be very careful if I was into using nuclear weapons against France which is the most denuclearized country on the planet: there might be some unwanted side effects like a nuclear winter, a nuclear disaster of apocalyptical proportions, who knows, maybe a gigantic hole in the Earth's crust of the level of the Oruanui VEI-8 eruption if not worse, some dude at the Large Hadron Collider may even decide to lift all securities and unleash a small blackhole which will grow and grow at the point after some time it will eat the solar system or more...
> 
> So, as you see, I definitively do not fear Putler's arsenal, he's a nuclear clown, ruSSia is a paper tiger
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and I'm positive with a direct NATO intervention in Ukraine to kick his orcs out, period!
> He can always use one of his firecrackers as a dildo, he'll surely enjoy it more than Hermann Goering enjoyed what his great dane dog had to offer...


Talking of nuclear war between super powers.
Even a nuclear war between India and Pakistan can end the world including all humans on earth as we know it.

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## StraightEdge

Problem in Poland-Germany relations. 
Ukraine: Dispute over arms deliveries strains relations between Poland and Germany - DER SPIEGEL

A new dispute emerges as part of the much touted German "like for like" assistance for allied partners passing old MBT to Ukraine. Polish foreign minister now suggests country feels deceived over promises by Berlin to provide modern replacements.

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## LeGenD

925boy said:


> then why has this same US lost every war since you and i were born? just fact checkingbro.



Maybe you are confused about objectives of a war and what can be regarded as victory in a war?

Every war has a core political objective. If it is accomplished then it is victory.

Let me give you some examples.

*1. *Korean War (1950 - 1953) was fought to liberate and restore South Korea:





__





Armistice Agreement for the Restoration of the South Korean State (1953)


EnlargeDownload Link Citation: Korean War Armistice Agreement, July 27, 1953; Treaties and Other International Agreements Series #2782; General Records of the United States Government; Record Group 11; National Archives. View All Pages in the National Archives Catalog View Transcript This...




www.archives.gov





Core political objective was accomplished. This is victory.

*2. *Operation Desert Storm (1991) was launched to liberate and restore Kuwait:





__





Desert Storm: Volume 1 - The Iraqi Invasion of Kuwait & Operation Desert Shield 1990-1991 (Middle East@War): Hooton, E.R., Cooper, Tom: 9781911628224: Amazon.com: Books


Desert Storm: Volume 1 - The Iraqi Invasion of Kuwait & Operation Desert Shield 1990-1991 (Middle East@War) [Hooton, E.R., Cooper, Tom] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Desert Storm: Volume 1 - The Iraqi Invasion of Kuwait & Operation Desert Shield 1990-1991 (Middle East@War)



www.amazon.com










Desert Storm: Volume 2 - Operation Desert Storm and the Coalition Liberation of Kuwait 1991 (Middle East@War): Hooton, E.R., Cooper, Tom: 9781913336356: Amazon.com: Books


Desert Storm: Volume 2 - Operation Desert Storm and the Coalition Liberation of Kuwait 1991 (Middle East@War) [Hooton, E.R., Cooper, Tom] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Desert Storm: Volume 2 - Operation Desert Storm and the Coalition Liberation of Kuwait 1991 (Middle East@War)



www.amazon.com









__





The Gulf War: Operation Desert Storm 1990-1991 (Modern Warfare): Tucker-Jones, Anthony: 9781781593912: Amazon.com: Books


The Gulf War: Operation Desert Storm 1990-1991 (Modern Warfare) [Tucker-Jones, Anthony] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The Gulf War: Operation Desert Storm 1990-1991 (Modern Warfare)



www.amazon.com










Milestones: 1989–1992 - Office of the Historian


history.state.gov 3.0 shell




history.state.gov







https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1991/04/07/iraq-accepts-un-terms-to-end-gulf-war/9800a4ea-62c1-4215-8119-f21cf4630b78/



Core political objective was accomplished. This is victory.

*3. *Operation Allied Force (1999) was launched to liberate Kosovo:









Kosovo Air Campaign (March-June 1999)


NATO launched an air campaign, Operation Allied Force, in March 1999 to halt the humanitarian catastrophe that was then unfolding in Kosovo. The decision to intervene followed more than a year of fighting within the province and the failure of international efforts to resolve the conflict by...




www.nato.int









__





Military Technical Agreement between the International Security Force (KFOR) and the Governments of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and the Republic of Serbia | UN Peacemaker







peacemaker.un.org













Operation Allied Force: Lessons for the Future


RAND researcher Benjamin S. Lambeth offers a thorough appraisal of Operation Allied Force, with a view toward shedding light both on the operation's strengths and on its most salient weaknesses.




www.rand.org





Core political objective was accomplished. This is victory.

*4. *Operation Iraqi Freedom (2003 - 2011) was launched to close the chapter of Saddam regime in Iraq.





__





Qusay and Uday Hussein killed


Former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein’s sons, Qusay and Uday Hussein, are killed after a three-hour firefight with U.S. forces in the northern Iraqi city of




www.history.com









__





Enemy of the State: The Trial and Execution of Saddam Hussein: Amazon.com: Books


Enemy of the State: The Trial and Execution of Saddam Hussein on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Enemy of the State: The Trial and Execution of Saddam Hussein



www.amazon.com









__





The U.S. Army in the Iraq War Volume 1: Invasion Insurgency Civil War 2003 – 2006: US Army, United States Government: 9781794435377: Amazon.com: Books


The U.S. Army in the Iraq War Volume 1: Invasion Insurgency Civil War 2003 – 2006 [US Army, United States Government] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The U.S. Army in the Iraq War Volume 1: Invasion Insurgency Civil War 2003 – 2006



www.amazon.com









__





The U.S. Army in the Iraq War Volume 2: Surge and Withdrawal 2007 – 2011: US Army, United States Government: 9781794449732: Amazon.com: Books


The U.S. Army in the Iraq War Volume 2: Surge and Withdrawal 2007 – 2011 [US Army, United States Government] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The U.S. Army in the Iraq War Volume 2: Surge and Withdrawal 2007 – 2011



www.amazon.com









__





Lessons of the Iraqi De-Ba'athification Program for Iraq's Future and the Arab Revolutions: Terrill, W. Andrew: 9781478380115: Amazon.com: Books


Lessons of the Iraqi De-Ba'athification Program for Iraq's Future and the Arab Revolutions [Terrill, W. Andrew] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Lessons of the Iraqi De-Ba'athification Program for Iraq's Future and the Arab Revolutions



www.amazon.com









__





Amazon.com: The Iraq War: Operation Iraqi Freedom 2003–2011 (Modern Warfare) eBook : Tucker-Jones, Anthony: Kindle Store


The Iraq War: Operation Iraqi Freedom 2003–2011 (Modern Warfare) - Kindle edition by Tucker-Jones, Anthony. Download it once and read it on your Kindle device, PC, phones or tablets. Use features like bookmarks, note taking and highlighting while reading The Iraq War: Operation Iraqi Freedom...



www.amazon.com









__





Free Iraq-


Free Iraq-Major Battles, Casualties and a monthly look




www.historycentral.com





Core political objective was accomplished. This is victory.

There are other examples but the above will do.

I am rather surprised that some living in US do not study and understand these themes and developments. Distant observers have to point out the obvious.

Modern warfare is not necessarily about invading and annexing another state in classical sense. Americans did this to Mexico back in 1800s.

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## BHAN85

Russia cuts gas supplies to Finland for 'refusing to pay in roubles'


https://www.euronews.com/2022/05/21/russia-cuts-gas-supplies-to-finland-for-refusing-to-pay-in-roubles https://metro.co.uk/2022/05/21/how-much-gas-does-finland-get-from-russia-16684824/ Only 5% of FInland gas conssumption is from Russia, so I guess it's not the big deal, they can afford the...



defence.pk

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527980712799965184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527959234620575745
Russians go boom.

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## wahhab0202

Even in the darkest cloud there is a silver lining. Hopefully this is it.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527958894575857664

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## Wergeland

LeGenD said:


> Maybe you are confused about objectives of a war and what can be regarded as victory in a war?
> 
> Every war has a core political objective. If it is accomplished then it is victory.
> 
> Let me give you some examples.
> 
> *1. *Korean War (1950 - 1953) was fought to liberate and restore South Korea:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Armistice Agreement for the Restoration of the South Korean State (1953)
> 
> 
> EnlargeDownload Link Citation: Korean War Armistice Agreement, July 27, 1953; Treaties and Other International Agreements Series #2782; General Records of the United States Government; Record Group 11; National Archives. View All Pages in the National Archives Catalog View Transcript This...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.archives.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Core political objective was accomplished. This is victory.
> 
> *2. *Operation Desert Storm (1991) was launched to liberate and restore Kuwait:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Desert Storm: Volume 1 - The Iraqi Invasion of Kuwait & Operation Desert Shield 1990-1991 (Middle East@War): Hooton, E.R., Cooper, Tom: 9781911628224: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> 
> Desert Storm: Volume 1 - The Iraqi Invasion of Kuwait & Operation Desert Shield 1990-1991 (Middle East@War) [Hooton, E.R., Cooper, Tom] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Desert Storm: Volume 1 - The Iraqi Invasion of Kuwait & Operation Desert Shield 1990-1991 (Middle East@War)
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Desert Storm: Volume 2 - Operation Desert Storm and the Coalition Liberation of Kuwait 1991 (Middle East@War): Hooton, E.R., Cooper, Tom: 9781913336356: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> 
> Desert Storm: Volume 2 - Operation Desert Storm and the Coalition Liberation of Kuwait 1991 (Middle East@War) [Hooton, E.R., Cooper, Tom] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Desert Storm: Volume 2 - Operation Desert Storm and the Coalition Liberation of Kuwait 1991 (Middle East@War)
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gulf War: Operation Desert Storm 1990-1991 (Modern Warfare): Tucker-Jones, Anthony: 9781781593912: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> 
> The Gulf War: Operation Desert Storm 1990-1991 (Modern Warfare) [Tucker-Jones, Anthony] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The Gulf War: Operation Desert Storm 1990-1991 (Modern Warfare)
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Milestones: 1989–1992 - Office of the Historian
> 
> 
> history.state.gov 3.0 shell
> 
> 
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> 
> history.state.gov
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> 
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> 
> 
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> https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1991/04/07/iraq-accepts-un-terms-to-end-gulf-war/9800a4ea-62c1-4215-8119-f21cf4630b78/
> 
> 
> 
> Core political objective was accomplished. This is victory.
> 
> *3. *Operation Allied Force (1999) was launched to launched to liberate Kosovo:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kosovo Air Campaign (March-June 1999)
> 
> 
> NATO launched an air campaign, Operation Allied Force, in March 1999 to halt the humanitarian catastrophe that was then unfolding in Kosovo. The decision to intervene followed more than a year of fighting within the province and the failure of international efforts to resolve the conflict by...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nato.int
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
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> Military Technical Agreement between the International Security Force (KFOR) and the Governments of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and the Republic of Serbia | UN Peacemaker
> 
> 
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> 
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> peacemaker.un.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Operation Allied Force: Lessons for the Future
> 
> 
> RAND researcher Benjamin S. Lambeth offers a thorough appraisal of Operation Allied Force, with a view toward shedding light both on the operation's strengths and on its most salient weaknesses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rand.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Core political objective was accomplished. This is victory.
> 
> *4. *Operation Iraqi Freedom (2003 - 2011) was launched to close the chapter of Saddam regime in Iraq.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qusay and Uday Hussein killed
> 
> 
> Former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein’s sons, Qusay and Uday Hussein, are killed after a three-hour firefight with U.S. forces in the northern Iraqi city of
> 
> 
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> www.history.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
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> 
> Enemy of the State: The Trial and Execution of Saddam Hussein: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> 
> Enemy of the State: The Trial and Execution of Saddam Hussein on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Enemy of the State: The Trial and Execution of Saddam Hussein
> 
> 
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> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
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> The U.S. Army in the Iraq War Volume 1: Invasion Insurgency Civil War 2003 – 2006: US Army, United States Government: 9781794435377: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> 
> The U.S. Army in the Iraq War Volume 1: Invasion Insurgency Civil War 2003 – 2006 [US Army, United States Government] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The U.S. Army in the Iraq War Volume 1: Invasion Insurgency Civil War 2003 – 2006
> 
> 
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> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
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> The U.S. Army in the Iraq War Volume 2: Surge and Withdrawal 2007 – 2011: US Army, United States Government: 9781794449732: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> 
> The U.S. Army in the Iraq War Volume 2: Surge and Withdrawal 2007 – 2011 [US Army, United States Government] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The U.S. Army in the Iraq War Volume 2: Surge and Withdrawal 2007 – 2011
> 
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> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
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> Lessons of the Iraqi De-Ba'athification Program for Iraq's Future and the Arab Revolutions: Terrill, W. Andrew: 9781478380115: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> 
> Lessons of the Iraqi De-Ba'athification Program for Iraq's Future and the Arab Revolutions [Terrill, W. Andrew] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Lessons of the Iraqi De-Ba'athification Program for Iraq's Future and the Arab Revolutions
> 
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> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> __
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> Amazon.com: The Iraq War: Operation Iraqi Freedom 2003–2011 (Modern Warfare) eBook : Tucker-Jones, Anthony: Kindle Store
> 
> 
> The Iraq War: Operation Iraqi Freedom 2003–2011 (Modern Warfare) - Kindle edition by Tucker-Jones, Anthony. Download it once and read it on your Kindle device, PC, phones or tablets. Use features like bookmarks, note taking and highlighting while reading The Iraq War: Operation Iraqi Freedom...
> 
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> www.amazon.com
> 
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> 
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> __
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> Free Iraq-
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> Free Iraq-Major Battles, Casualties and a monthly look
> 
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> www.historycentral.com
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> 
> 
> Core political objective was accomplished. This is victory.
> 
> There are other examples but the above will do.
> 
> I am rather surprised that some living in US do not study and understand these themes and developments. Distant observers have to point out the obvious.
> 
> Modern warfare is not necessarily about invading and annexing another state in classical sense. Americans did this to Mexico back in 1800s.



You are right.

Then the question is what was the _*rationale*_ behind the core objectives. Were they achieved?

Example:
Iraq War Won because core objective of Saddam government removal was achieved.

If the rationale was to further US interest and make America stronger. Did the result really play out the way it was anticipated.

The next question is: Should it matter?



wahhab0202 said:


> Even in the darkest cloud there is a silver lining. Hopefully this is it.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527958894575857664



Well the pipe is singing other tunes rather quickly. What happened?

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## Meengla

The SC said:


> The Russians are now going to try to destroy the industry in Europe and the US in an easy way; It is enough to sell the raw materials to the competitors of your enemies at cheaper prices than what is available in the market.. Then for example, the cost of production in India, China, South Africa, Brazil and Turkey will be cheaper, and their goods will become cheaper and cheaper, and surely the customers will buy at the cheapest price.. making the industry in Europe and in the US stagnate.



Interesting point. Sounds like Russia would bring down the global economy If/when Russia goes down.



The SC said:


> The US is expanding NATO “geographically” to reach the borders of Russia because it is simply planning to deprive the Russians of their ballistic capabilities from the fixed bases on the Russian land..
> 
> When the US missile shield is installed in Ukraine, Poland, Sweden and Finland, it can can easily hit any Russian missile in the 1st stage, which is the ascent stage of the ballistic missile, or at most at the beginning of the 2nd stage. The ballistic transition stage.. In these stages, the interception success rate exceeds 95% Estimated due to the weakness of the missile in terms of acceleration or ability to move away from the lower orbit of the Earth, as does a missile such as Satan I or the new Sarmat (Satan II), where it departs from the lower orbit of the Earth and heads to the poles of the Earth, from which it is inferred on the target and revolves around the pole of the Earth until it reaches directly above it...
> 
> This is a simplified explanation of the importance of the geographical expansion of NATO to the proximity to Russia..



I am no military expert but I tend to agree with you that geographic proximity matters a lot. Americans acted against the Soviet missile deployments in a 'sovereign' country Cuba because of the factors you have mentioned. And so, in the current context, the argument that it shouldn't matter to Russia if Ukraine joins NATO is not a valid one: Just because the Baltic countries are already part of NATO doesn't mean Ukraine joining NATO would be without significantly elevated threat against Russia. Little by little encroachments should amount to chipping away an adversary's advantages.



WotTen said:


> This China v/s West propaganda is spread by the US administration and media because they are threatened by China's rise. They did the same to Japan last century when it seemed like Japan was getting too big for its boots.



Don't go back that far. I remember even as late as early 1990s there was a big hoopla in American media about Japan's trade practices and that Japan was a 'totalitarian' society blah blah. The Japanese officials had responded by calling Americans 'lazy'.

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## Wergeland

MeFishToo said:


> The current “strenght” of the ruble is a facade. Its Russia manipulating the market and manufacturing demands for a currency nobody wants. Putin is taking an enormous risk using its biggest revenue, which is gas, as a bargaining chip to uphold this bridge for the ruble. If he insist that gas is payed in ruble, it will lead to renegotiation of contracts, and that will definitely lead to drastic reductions of the amount of gas being exported to the west - and possibly a total collaps of the the ruble and the russian economy.



Why would Russia keep accepting USD and EUR when those funds are confiscated?

Would you accept a payment for a product you sell, where the buyer then keeps the money?



Meengla said:


> Interesting point. Sounds like Russia would bring down the global economy If/when Russia goes down.



It will accelerate western de-indistrialization.

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## WotTen

Meengla said:


> I remember even as late as early 1990s there was a big hoopla in American media about Japan's trade practices and that Japan was a 'totalitarian' society blah blah. The Japanese officials had responded by calling Americans 'lazy'.



There was hysteria that Japanese were buying up American businesses and American property. Turns out the biggest foreign buyers were Brits and Swedes.

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## jhungary

Wergeland said:


> You are right.
> 
> Then the question is what was the _*rationale*_ behind the core objectives. Were they achieved?
> 
> Example:
> Iraq War Won because core objective of Saddam government removal was achieved.
> 
> If the rationale was to further US interest and make America stronger. Did the result really play out the way it was anticipated.
> 
> The next question is: Should it matter?
> 
> 
> 
> Well the pipe is singing other tunes rather quickly. What happened?


That is a moot point. 

These war were not extension of Policy, these war *ARE* policy.

You are asking what is the rationale behind those policy. Short answer is National Interest, long answer is, you need to ask Bush about it.



Wergeland said:


> Why would Russia keep accepting USD and EUR when those funds are confiscated?
> 
> Would you accept a payment for a product you sell, where the buyer then keeps the money?
> 
> 
> 
> It will accelerate western de-indistrialization.


Those money were not confiscated, the Russian asset in Western Bank are confiscated. Company can still pay USD or EURO to Russian bank but there are no way Russia can convert them.

Russia need USD and EURO to pay for the interest of their national debt, debtor do not accept Rouble for payment, you either pay in USD or EURO or default. Which mean when they do business in USD with private company, those money are then used to pay off the interest to avoid being default.

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## Wergeland

jhungary said:


> That is a moot point.
> 
> These war were not extension of Policy, these war *ARE* policy.
> 
> You are asking what is the rationale behind those policy. Short answer is National Interest, long answer is, you need to ask Bush about it.



I know its not related to the millitary objectives, as i already pointed out.
There is a reason the US Army still is World No1.

The rationale as you said is a political question thus the answer rests on policymakers. Still i ask the question because shouldnt it matter if a millitary victory is helpful or not? Pondering those questions could help make policymakers use hard power more selectively in the future.


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## Ali_Baba

*
Suspicious fire breaks out at Russian aerospace institute that develops fighter jets*









Suspicious fire breaks out at Russian aerospace institute


The fire began at a power substation supplying the institute, 43 miles southeast of Moscow, which has been crucial to the development of aircraft such as the Su-27, MiG-29, and MiG-31 fighters.




www.dailymail.co.uk





*March*: In an unconfirmed date in March, five recruitment centers in Moscow were set on fire in the Voronezh, Sverdlovsk and Ivanovo regions

*April 21*: Russian officials said 17 people died in an Air-Space Defense Research Institute in Tver, 180km NW of Moscow, developing S-400 AD system and Kalibr Missile 

*April 21*: Dmitrievsky chemical plant in the city of Kineshma explodes, 950km from Ukraine

*April 22*: As many as five Russian military enlistment offices have been set on fire in Ivanovo 

*April 22*: The Korolev Rocket and Space Corporation Energia is filmed on fire in Russia

*April 23*: A hydroelectric complex collapses, Kuban 

*April 25*: Bryansk Oil depot, a Rosneft production site, is set alight

*April 25*: Ussuriysk military air force base is reported as on fire

*April 28*: A fire is filmed within a construction site in Minsk, Belarus

*April 28*: Cars marked with the nationalist Russian symbol 'Z' were filed on fire in Moscow

*April 29*: Multiple buildings burn in Russia after a fire raged at a shopping centre in Ishim 

*April 30*: A GRES-2 120-megawatt coal-fired power plant was reportedly sabotaged in Sakhalin

*May 1*: videos documented fuel-oil tanks burning in Mytishchi, a fuel depot only thirty minutes from the Kremlin

*May 1*: Photos suggested a railway bridge in Russia’s Kursk region was destroyed due to sabotage 

*May 2*: Film showed a fire at a munitions factory facility in Perm, near the Ural Mountains

*May 3*: A fire at a four-floor pro-Kremlin publishing warehouse broke out in the Bogorodsk urban district of the Moscow region

*May 4*: Footage emerged of a large fire in the Dzerzhinsky industrial zone in the Nizhny Novgorod region

*May 4*: A Russian military enlistment office in Nizhnevartovsk was hit by multiple Molotov cocktails

*May 8*: A warehouse catches fire in Novoaltaysk 

*May 8*: The Aviation College sets on fire in Perm 

*May 11*: The Great Patriotic War memorial was filmed on fire in Peledui, Yakutsia

*May 13*: The military registration and enlistment office in Omsk was hit with Molotov cocktails

*May 13:* A large fire broke out in the press service of the Ministry of Emergency Situations for the Sverdlovsk Region

*May 13*: A fire was recorded next to the Theatre for Young Spectators in Irkutsk Russia

*May 15*: A fire occurred in the production building of the Gloria Jeans company in the city of Shakhty

*May 16*: The DM Tower Business Centre in Moscow is filmed on fire

*May 17*: A blaze engulfed a chemical plant that makes plastic in Berdsk, central Russia

*May 20*: A transformer substation caught fire on the territory of the Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute in Zhukovsky

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## Wergeland

jhungary said:


> Those money were not confiscated, the Russian asset in Western Bank are confiscated. Company can still pay USD or EURO to Russian bank but there are no way Russia can convert them.
> 
> Russia need USD and EURO to pay for the interest of their national debt, debtor do not accept Rouble for payment, you either pay in USD or EURO or default. Which mean when they do business in USD with private company, those money are then used to pay off the interest to avoid being default.



Come on man. Why would Russia accept such conditions. Its not a Venezuela or Iran.


----------



## LeGenD

Wergeland said:


> You are right.
> 
> Then the question is what was the _*rationale*_ behind the core objectives. Were they achieved?
> 
> Example:
> Iraq War Won because core objective of Saddam government removal was achieved.
> 
> If the rationale was to further US interest and make America stronger. Did the result really play out the way it was anticipated.
> 
> The next question is: Should it matter?



This is interesting question, and food for thought as well.

-----

Americans were of the view that Saddam regime was unpopular and could be toppled without much blowback. They did not realize that Saddam regime had a crucial role in deflating centuries old Shia - Sunni tensions and politics of the region - it was ruthless for this factor alone.

When Saddam regime was toppled, substantial cascading effects followed in the form of emergence of ruthless militant networks and Iraqi Civil War which claimed many lives and pulled Iran and Syria into the chaos as well. US-led forces had no choice but to substitute 'Saddam regime' for addressing these developments through the years.

I do admit that greater war in Iraq is one of the longest and one of the most destructive to be fought in modern times (1991 - 2020). Iraq turned out to be a hard an explosive nut to crack in short.

Some are of the view that the greater war in Iraq turned into a quagmire given its duration and scale of violence. But Americans were able to control its fallout in the end. Key lesson is that* persistance* can make difference in prolonged conflicts.

American battles in Vietnam were indecisive in the (1965 - 1967) period but American troops began to win in later years. They defeated Vietcong in Tet Offensive in 1968 and routed Vietcong from *A* *Sau* valley in 1969 (Operation Apache Snow). But then orders for withdrawal came and all the hard work of American troops was down the drain. There was a lack of persistance for the Vietnam War.

-----

In regards to American interests in the Middle East:

*1. *Saddam regime was hostile to American allies in the region. This threat is removed.

*2. *Now Iran is hostile to American allies in the region. Both Iran and KSA compete for influence in the Middle East as well. But Iran is open to negotiations (e.g. JCPOA), and Americans might be reluctant to give too much power to KSA in the region by neutralizing Iran for KSA. There is more to this theme as well.

American interests are not limited to securing allies *but* regional fueds provide opportunities to sell arms and make profits.

This is a long game and there is no rush in how to play it from American standpoint.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527963825445785601


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## wahhab0202

Wergeland said:


> Well the pipe is singing other tunes rather quickly. What happened?


Zelensky might want to prevent further loss I think. With the current development, a landlock Ukraine is quite possible but could be worse.
Diplomacy is the only way for Ukraine to have some access to the black sea.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

MeFishToo said:


> The current “strenght” of the ruble is a facade. Its Russia manipulating the market and manufacturing demands for a currency nobody wants. Putin is taking an enormous risk using its biggest revenue, which is gas, as a bargaining chip to uphold this bridge for the ruble. If he insist that gas is payed in ruble, it will lead to renegotiation of contracts, and that will definitely lead to drastic reductions of the amount of gas being exported to the west - and possibly a total collaps of the the ruble and the russian economy.




With respect to renegotiation of contracts, those contracts are null and void since the West has frozen all Russians assets in its their financial institutions. You don't buy something from someone and then demand that you aren't gonna pay them the money; you would instead hold the money and then declare those funds "frozen". The West was doing far too long to other countries, but this time they found their match.

The EU also doesn't have another supplier that can replace the Russian gas. They don't have a much choice. Qatari and Algerian gas won't be sufficient enough to replace the Russian gas. Russia is a solid supplier of natural resources that everybody wants. And they're using these resources to fight the Western sanctions, while rejecting any trade transactions based on the US Dollar and Euro.



wahhab0202 said:


> Zelensky might want to prevent further loss I think. With the current development, a landlock Ukraine is quite possible but could be worse.
> Diplomacy is the only way for Ukraine to have some access to the black sea.



He is desperate to get a ceasefire. You can see him declaring "doplomacy" is the only answer. 👇 The Russian forces are encircling his forces in the Donbas, and the fate of Mariaupol awaits those forces that try to wage urban battles. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527991870571352064

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## Trango Towers

Elvin said:


> For all these arab and other Russian sympathizers please go to Russia next time you have a war or issue, don’t come to Europe and the US. Obviously most of you support Russia so go live there and see what Russia is lol.
> 
> Just imagine a world Russia or China rules…
> 
> All countries US defeated in Ww2 are today successful, wealthy and developed countries. How about Russia? Most are still playing catchup 30 years later lol.
> 
> China? Yeah nooo …


What a dick.
Wealth is debt.

A man with 1 cent and no debt is richer that USA. Think it through. You are all owned by israel and the jewish thugs

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528015173524631554


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527966304086499330


Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528015173524631554




I guess so much "winning" for Ukraine that they now banned their people from leaving the country! 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527988312157437959







Uh, looks like fighting for Victoria Nuland, Robert Kagan, Frederick Kagan, and Kimberly Kagan is causing Ukrainian reserves to being decimated in the Donbas. What a disaster!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528011308704071681

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## The SC

Wergeland said:


> You are right.
> 
> Then the question is what was the _*rationale*_ behind the core objectives. Were they achieved?
> 
> Example:
> Iraq War Won because core objective of Saddam government removal was achieved.
> 
> If the rationale was to further US interest and make America stronger. Did the result really play out the way it was anticipated.
> 
> The next question is: Should it matter?


The Rationale in the case of the Korean war was stopping communism from spreading in Asia..and for Iraq..it was preventing Saddam from controlling 25% of world OiL by adding the Kuwaiti reserves to the Iraqi ones..


----------



## kingQamaR

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527966304086499330
> 
> 
> 
> I guess so much "winning" for Ukraine that they now banned their people from leaving the country!
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527988312157437959
> View attachment 846177
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, looks like fighting for Victoria Nuland, Robert Kagan, Frederick Kagan, and Kimberly Kagan is causing Ukrainian reserves to being decimated in the Donbas. What a disaster!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528011308704071681



Being a citizen brings certain responsibilities. Helping to defend the country from attack is one in Ukraine. There is nothing wrong with making your able bodied males fight in a defensive war


----------



## Mahabahu kaunteya

B


The SC said:


> The Rationale in the case of the Korean war was stopping communism from spreading in Asia..and for Iraq..it was preventing Saddam from controlling 25% of world OiL by adding the Kuwaiti reserves to the Iraqi ones..


But wasn't kuwait stealing oil ?
Saddam invasion of kuwait was thus justified


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527788389390491651

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527713695014567936

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528034032465989632

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## Hassan Al-Somal

De-Nazification is in full speed! 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527992026603700225

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## The SC

Blueindian said:


> B
> 
> But wasn't kuwait stealing oil ?
> Saddam invasion of kuwait was thus justified


Nope.. the reason was that Saddam wanted to add Kuwait to Iraq based on some historical facts..he even went to the UN asking that and tried to prove that Kuwait was historically a part of Iraq..then Kuwait started asking Saddam to pay its due for the kuwaiti support during the the Iraq-Iran war..around $20 billion..That seemed to be too much asking and hence the invasion of Kuwait..these are the facts..Kuwait shared some oil fields with Iraq near their borders..but not the main Kuwaiti Oil fields and reserves.. and another important fact to remember; the US was still much dependent on the ME Oil at that time..

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527956336738279428

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## jhungary

Wergeland said:


> I know its not related to the millitary objectives, as i already pointed out.
> There is a reason the US Army still is World No1.
> 
> The rationale as you said is a political question thus the answer rests on policymakers. Still i ask the question because shouldnt it matter if a millitary victory is helpful or not? Pondering those questions could help make policymakers use hard power more selectively in the future.


victory on what?

As I said, most, if not all war today themselves are policy, so exactly how you can define a "Victory" on Policy? There are no victory or defeat in war in terms of Policy, the only reason why war are fought in some way, shape or form are the extension of political life of the leader

Grunts? We do what the top ask us to do, no question asked



Wergeland said:


> Come on man. Why would Russia accept such conditions. Its not a Venezuela or Iran.


This is not about acceptance

Those condition are "imposed" whether or not Russia accept it or not is not the question here.

Russian have two choice, either they keep using Rouble and once they run out of USD/EURO reserve and default on their debt, or do this to buy time and hopefully either the sanction is lifted before they run out?

Either, there are pretty much nothing else the Russian government can do, because they don't print Euro or USD.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

LEVI _*🌍*_

Forwarded from MoD Russia

_*⚡️*_*Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry
*
_*▫️*_The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine.

_*💥*_*High-precision long-range sea-based Kalibr missiles *near the Malin railway station in Zhytomir Region have destroyed a* large batch of weapons and military equipment* delivered from the USA and European countries for a grouping of Ukrainian troops in Donbass.

_*💥*_*Russian air-based missiles *near Odessa, at the Odessa Port Plant, have destroyed* fuel storages* intended for Ukrainian nationalists' armoured vehicles.

_*▫️*_In addition, *high-precision airborne missiles *have hit *3* command posts, including the command post of the 109th Territorial Defence Brigade near Bakhmut, *36* areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration, as well as *8* ammunition depots in Galitsinovo, Nikolaev Region, Nyrkovo in Lugansk People's Republic, Krasnyi Liman and Ocheretino in Donetsk People's Republic.

_*✈️💥*_*Operational-tactical and army aviation* have hit *4* command posts, *47* areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration, as well as* 1* ammunition depot near Drobyshevo.

_*▫️*_The attacks have resulted in the elimination of more than *270* nationalists and up to *52* armoured and motor vehicles.

_*▫️*_Also, *1* Ukrainian *Su-25 *aircraft have been shot down by fighter aircraft during an aerial battle near Belitskoe, Donetsk Region.

_*💥*_*Russian air defence means *have shot down another *Su-25 *aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force near Novoaleksandrovka, Kherson Region.

_*▫️*_Also, *14 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles *have been shot down in the air near Slavnoe, Krutaya Balka, Aleksandrovka, Krasnogorovka, Petropavlovka, Pervomaisk in Donetsk People's Republic, Popasnaya in Lugansk People's Republic, Novaya Kakhovka, Aleksandrovka in Kherson Region, Chervonyi Yar, Malye Prokhody, Kun'e and Brazhkovka in Kharkov Region.

_*▫️*_In addition, *8 *Ukrainian Smerch multiple-launch rockets have been shot down near Malaya Kamyshevakha, Kamenka, Brazhkovka in Kharkov Region and Chernobaevka in Kherson Region.

_*💥*_*Missile troops and artillery* have hit *77* command posts, *602* areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration, including *1* training camp for AFU special operations forces with personnel near Lake Sasik in Odessa Region, *43* artillery and mortar units at firing positions, *2* MLRS Grad batteries, *10* ammunition depots and *1 *Buk-M1 anti-aircraft system launcher near Mayaki in Kharkov Region.

_*📊*_In total, *174* Ukrainian aircraft and *125* helicopters, *966* unmanned aerial vehicles, *315* anti-aircraft missile systems, *3,182* tanks and other armored combat vehicles, *402* multiple launch rocket systems, *1,614* field artillery and mortars, as well as *3,054 *units of special military vehicles were destroyed during the operation.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527936475794399233

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## Trango Towers

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> De-Nazification is in full speed! 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527992026603700225


Supported by israel another nazi state

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## Soldier35

As it is known, the Russian sapper robots "Uran-6" were delivered by Russia to Ukraine, previously reported, we show the direct work of the operator to control the mine clearance robot "Uran-6" in Ukraine. The robot's reservation allows you to withstand the explosion of even an anti-tank mine. The control of the military robot "Uranus-6" is remote. The main task of the sapper robot is to make passages in minefields and quickly clear the areas.

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## Wergeland

The SC said:


> The Rationale in the case of the Korean war was stopping communism from spreading in Asia..and for Iraq..it was preventing Saddam from controlling 25% of world OiL by adding the Kuwaiti reserves to the Iraqi ones..



Second Iraq War?

Did the US really achieve anything substantial, other than removing Saddam and destroying the whole country.

While it was distracted in Iraq, China grabbed the opportunity to become a peer competitor, without waging any wars. That is the _true_ Art Of War. To Win without fighting.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527949904492085248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528048210505256960

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## The SC

Wergeland said:


> Second Iraq War?
> 
> Did the US really achieve anything substantial, other than removing Saddam and destroying the whole country.
> 
> While it was distracted in Iraq, China grabbed the opportunity to become a peer competitor, without waging a war. That is the _true_ Art Of War. To Win without fighting.


For the second Iraq War the objective itself was removing Saddam and bringing a regime change in Iraq..

As for China it was on its way to competing on the global markets anyways.. Most Western big companies were manufacturing their products in China..


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## Wergeland

The SC said:


> For the second Iraq War the objective itself was removing Saddam and bringing a regime change in Iraq..



Would be interesting to know why!




The SC said:


> As for China it was on its way to competing on the global markets anyways.. Most Western big companies were manufacturing their products in China..


Thats true.
Iraq War gave China the breathing space it needed in order to grow without being a target like it is today. If the US had choosen to contain China insted of fighting Iraq, Americans wouldnt have to deal with a vastly more powerful China today.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528005844666818566

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528046602090385408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528018891632521218

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528014548711645186

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527843397137903616


Wergeland said:


> Would be interesting to know why!
> 
> 
> 
> Thats true.
> Iraq War gave China the breathing space it needed in order to grow without being a target like it is today. If the US had choosen to contain China insted of fighting Iraq, Americans wouldnt have to deal with a vastly more powerful China today.


Have you ever heard of " chemical Ali "..

The US couldn't have chosen to contain China.. that's contradictory to its economic policies at that time.. when its own giant companies were manufacturing their goods in China..!

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528056620420300800

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527998082075578368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527966627345620999

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527943185892364288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527936475794399233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527941888812138498

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## Wergeland

The SC said:


> Have you ever heard of " chemical Ali "..
> 
> The US couldn't have chosen to contain Russia..that's contradictory to its economic policies at that time..when its own giant companies were manufacturing their goods in China..!



Official stories are nice but too bad we wont know 100% what Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld were thinking.

I believe the USA simply got outfoxed by China.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527932797821804544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527770244856664066

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527950009811013636

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527748787581726721

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## MeFishToo

Wergeland said:


> Why would Russia keep accepting USD and EUR when those funds are confiscated?
> 
> Would you accept a payment for a product you sell, where the buyer then keeps the money?
> 
> 
> 
> It will accelerate western de-indistrialization.


Energy isnt sanctioned. Demanding payment in rubles insted of euro or dollars agreed upon is a breach of contract. My contrys contract with Russia expires in 2030, and it would be costly for the company controlling gas deliveries if they simply refused to accept russian gas. If Russia is breaching the contract the problem is solved.

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## The SC

Wergeland said:


> Official stories are nice but too bad we wont know 100% what Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld were thinking.
> 
> I believe the USA simply got outfoxed by China.


We know for sure that they need war every 10-20 years.. and they plan and create conditions for it in a long term scheme..

The USA simply got outfoxed by China..yes now a days.. but then the West was seeing China as a manufacturing hub that made them trillions of dollars in profit and a potential huge market for their products as it proved to be after enhancing the quality of living of the Chinese people.. but China was smart to diversify its market and spread it globally..So not to depend on the West only..

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527752524580659205

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527732604581351424

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527732534049746944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527725459433213953


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## Nuclear Clown

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You really expect people here to read all of that diatribe? We aren't your professors who gets paid to read and grade your paper. Keep it short and to add reason to it. Right now, it is devoid of any facts for anyone to spend even 5 minutes on it.


Sorry if your brain can't deal with more than Twitter-format for your military analysis... You shouldn't consider posting on forums if not fit for more reflectiveness. Sorry if you're accustomed to Schwarzy's or Bruce Willis' action movies where the script is only made of one-liners, if you were accustomed to read a little more or to watch movies a little more sophisticated, you'd get why many use words like Mordor about Russia, Isengard about Belarus and Orcs about Putin's forces





Keep your orders for yourself, I'm not hired by ex-Con Yevgeny Prigozhin for 85 rubbles per pro-Putler comment. Usually, I bypass your comments and don't look at your links: they're not interesting at all. I'd feel honoured if you do the same. Is there some mute button here?


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Russia demanding all gas sales to Europe based on the Ruble has strengthened its currency. The West has frozen Russian assets in their financial institutions and imposed sanctions on Russia, thinking they would cripple the Russian economy.
> 
> In return, Putin demanded all Russian gas sales to Europe would be done based on the Ruble. He's also demanded all mineral and food sales to EU would be done on the Ruble as well. This is where the strength that you see on the Ruble comes from. Today, every transaction between Russia and EU and other countries, except China, is based on the Ruble.
> 
> He's also made deals with China, the largest economy in the world, where Russia is selling more hydrocarbons based on the Yuan. Having this trade outside of US Dollar and Euro is another blow against the "fiat money".
> 
> The English-speaking world's effort to kill the Nord Stream 2 pipeline has really backfired on them. It seems Ukraine and the rest of EU have chosen to be the sacrificial lamb here.
> 
> This war is about saving the "fiat money" and the system that suffocates many countries and peoples. It looks like Putin and his Russian nation are the ones who are successfully resisting it.


The problem is that... Just look at Finland : they refuse to pay in Rubles, and so will it be for [near] everybody... You don't seem to get that EU weighs more than 50% of ruSSia's exports and ruSSian economy is about the same size as South Korea, not even on par with Brazil, Italy, Canada.
It's not by selling oil and gas at bargain prices that ruSSia will compensate the loss of an EU market that can absolutely do without even if it causes some conjectural issues : new generation of Siemens turbines allow to boost a NPP production by 80%, Putin knows it, he bought 3 turbines to compensate when Ukraine stopped to supply electricity to Mordor-occupied Crimea/Donbass/Luhansk... We can resume the building of fast breeders like Supeerphénix, thus burning nuke wastes from other NPPs while such fast breeder generates more fuel than it burns
We also have gigantic shale gas basins in need of be truly exploited, especially the French one which is under moratorium due to ecologists lobbying. Even the Germans are no more into exiting nuclear energy. With the French fast-breeder technology, nuclear becomes a renewable energy, and with the Siemens turbines, nuclear energy becomes near half as cheap, BTW, these turbines are the standard for EDF's EPR-2 4th gen NPPs... Why d'you think we've just stopped half our reactors, now the temperature on the outside is, for 2 weeks, between 25 and 34 °C? Gosh, it's already the summer, more than 1 month early... We're mounting new Siemens turbines!!!! 

The Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) had been reduced due to overproduction? Well, time to return to the pre-reduction policy... In fact, thanks to Putler, the EU will simply do just like the USA : gain its energy independence and with the old-school CAP resumed with Ukraine entering the EU as soon the war ends, and, IMHO, with the huge financial help and the mass deliveries of weapons, ruSSian losses in personnel and equipment will become unsustainable : they've already lost 1650 tanks on 2800, they're pulling old rusted Soviet crap out of the reserve... 
EU is not the sacrificial lamb, the change of mentality we needed happened thanks to Putler, the EU even bought weapons for the 1st time, a new superpower is born



Paul2 said:


> Silo based missiles are always filled


Actually, it's their personnel that is filled with vodka/hydrazine mixture... And no, hell, no, you don't fill a ballistic missile or a space rocket with* LIQUID fuel* except just before the launch... It's different with things like Topol or Yars which use *solid fuel* and are as well as in silos or TEL-mounted... Seriously, you should document yourself about the result of launch failures with liquid-fuel powered rockets, *ruSSia *has broken several records like the most lethal launchpad accident and the biggest launchpad explosion with near 7 kilotons. Note that the N1 space rocked would had been great, the problem was Soviet/ruSSian quality control : you can absolutely trust a Soyuz rocket when launched by Arianespace or NASA, I wouldn't bet my life on it if the operator is Roscosmos



nangyale said:


> You do realise that planes take off and land on something called an airbase or airfield.
> That's the thing you target when you want to deny your enemy.
> Haven't you heard that "the best place to destroy an airplane is on the ground".


Not forcedly! Numerous aircraft can operate from roads! 




Some are well known to be able to operate even from small roads and are absolutely seen as STOL (short take-off/landing) : a Rafale takes off in 400m and lands into 450m, Gripen, Viggen : 500m, Mirage-2000, F-18, Typhoon : 600m. MiG-29 is well known to do so too : 

Good luck to catch a Rafale on the ground : it's able to fly for more than 12 hours a day if intensive use is needed. During the 2011 Libyan campaign, the 9 Rafale-M deployed on the DeGaulle CVN, were catapulted 100x per 24h !!!! You're lucky if your Flanker can perform 3 missions per 24h, 4 is considered intensive use for a F-18... F-35 or F-22 need 28h maintenance... per flight hour, thanks to the new outstanding Lockheed-Martin coating, previous one needed 32 hours... Since they also need special hangars, yup, those betting on F-35 only are Putin their security in serious jeopardy


Paul2 said:


> NATO is 1 billion people, and 1500 warheads cannot possibly kill more than 50M. Only 5% of population.
> Russia, or China on another hand are super centralised countries. Officials there can't cook a pot of porridge unless commanded. Loss of the eunich class all living in imperial capital will paralyze the country. If eunichs are dead, or the party leadership along with them, it will take a few civil wars, coups, and a year+ of martial law to reestablish the most minimal semblance of control.


The problem is not so instant destruction when you imply the use of nukes: this is only valuable in case of air-bursts enough away from the ground so it's not touched by the fireball... The main issue is that anything taken into the fireball is not just vaporized, it's elements are neutron-activated = they become radioactive, go airborne with the mushroom and will spread more or less far depending on the wind. FYI, a 1 megaton surface blast will do half the damages and immediate casualties of an airburst, but your fallout plume will cover an area of about 20,000-30,000km² depending on winds, with no less than 1 rad/h, even at 0.1 rad/h, the area (which is about the double of the min. 1rad/h area) has to be evacuated ASAP and you need to wear an HazMat to avoid contamination. At 1 rad/h, consider you'd better leave the area within 12h, wearing a HazMat Type C and not drinking/eating/breathing anything non protected from contamination: radioactive particles in your lungs or bowels are not nice at all!!! The nice point with the Type C is it's also OK against things like Ebola, the Chinese virus that is pissing us all off for 2 years, H5N1, etc too, but in case of CWs like VX, Sarin, you need a Type B. Type A offers double protection




1 rad/h means that within 3 hours, you've already taken 3 REMs just by exposure, this is the yearly maximum allowed to nuclear workers! Within 50h, the headache of doom starts, at 100h, you start to puke and defecate, at 200h you deserve a *"Z"* *t-shirt* 'coz you're a Putler's Zombie, at 400h, you've reached the half lethal dose, this means that with blood change every 4 hours and anti-rad drugs, 50% survive, at 500 REMs, the lethality must be around 90-95% with treatment... And this is without contamination which implies that you shall not breath, eat or drink anything found in the open...
This implies that 500x 1Mt warheads in surface burst will pollute 10-15 millions km² with at least 1 rad/h, best case scenario, and with a looser spread, you can double the size if you consider that, anyway, à 0.1 rad/h, the area is TARFU for no less than a few centuries, likely a few dozens centuries...

So, yup, no fuss, Putler can absolutely make EU/NATO FUBAR, But... M.A.D is no BS (the Licorne 1 Mt test in Mururoa is still the most beautifu, ain't it?)




So...
France alone can cover no less than 3.5-4 millions km² at 1 rad/h level and the double at 0.1 rad/h, and this is without counting what can be pulled out from cocoon storage and is surely deployed in the subsonic stealth cruise missiles like MdCN or SCALP-EG, and since 2020, all the ballistic missiles are stealth, even against UHF radars. As you pointed, ruSSia is super-centralized, moreover, a bit like Canada, most of the country is close to population zero... You don't need the US arsenal to demolish ruSSia, the French one is enough. The only things I can tell, are that the 4 French SSBNs are at sea now, while usually, there is one in maintenance and one with the crew resting... Then, AFAIK, the AF and Navy squadrons in charge of the ASMPA-Rs are not on their bases, and they're not the only ones: airbases are near empty and I hear unusual numbers of jet fighters overflights, near all the navy is at sea... Nothing is said publicly but Macron is doing a low profile, 
IMHO, we're in smth similar to DEFCON 1



Paul2 said:


> Fully on the same page as you. It's very evident now, Putin is bombing out Ukrainian industry, and these are not military factories.
> Really, there is no politics to this conflict, only profit, and I mean personal profit of these 200 men who run Russian Federation.
> Few know, but Ukraine was basically closest economic peer competitor to Russia.
> I wrote on it few months ago: he invaded Ukraine for oil, and gas in the black sea.


You know, in the last 200-250 years, all wars were fought about economics, except the Arab ones on Israel : these were fought upon racism. Any other reasons pushed are just propaganda. Hitler invaded for the same reasons Erdogan does proxy wars : both being morons, they took loans the country can't cash in order to push megalomaniac projects but, even if you have fast growth, you'd better consider it won't last forever, in some way, China is at VERY HIGH RISK of going rogue : they have 300%+ of the GDP as deficit, and unlike USA or EU, no negative interest rates which are due to the fact the economies are healthy. Having 100% as deficit is OK as the money you lease is included, e.g. USA or EU pay less interests on their debt that they perceive interests on the money they lease, in fact, EU even has strict rules: no more than 3% "in the red". Greece was over 3%, measures were imposed to sanitize the economy while, at the same time, EU bought the Greek debt and put it in a negative interest fund... Actually, when some accuse USA of printing Dollars, they don't get how it works, it's actually PRC which is printing Yuans, causing the global inflation, the point is that, just like Adolf or Gollum, they have over-invested, and their military build up is an obvious sign that they consider the military option to get out from the debt spiral...
Frankly, was I Tsai, Fumio or Yoon, I'd nuclearize, even if Washington doesn't agrees, and I'd probably consider measures that may not fit to international treaties as a temporary measure until a nuclear deterrent can be fielded.
Indonesia, the Philippines and some other in the region should better opt for way more seriously invest in military gear, you know, the minimum necessary to shoot down all PLAAF combat aircraft while sinking PLAN ships at the same time is just 8 Rafale squadrons (if you're allowed to get the conventional version of ASMPA-R as an anti-ship missile): many don't get how this asset is powerful : the concept was all about being able to screw the... 12,000 combat aircraft of the Warsaw pact while only owning 330 Rafales: by using pylons similar to what you see under F-15EX's wings but with the provision to carry a TER for 3 AAMs, there is enough payload for up to 39 Meteors and 9 MICA-NG at once, not even speaking about the 100kN non afterburner version of the M88 Safran has shown to the public: payload is extended to 12 tons, while, with a fast interception payload, it'd just allow Mach2+ in supercruise. Dassault got rid from the only point not allowing a sustained Mach2 with the twin 75kN engines, the Kevlar nose. With the F4 standard, the same 3rd gen stealth used with the M51.3 is applied, making it invisible even for UHF radars, meanwhile, we surely can provide the NOSTRADAMUS to these countries OTHR...Shenyang had to return the J-31 to the same kind of stealth coating used for J-20, seems they neither can come with baked-in radar absorbent materials used on Rafale, Gripen-E and likely Tejas too, as well as they don't even have 2ng gen stealth (active cancellation), moreover, OSF-IT is not an IRST, it's a 2nd gen QWIP, the 3rd gen will only come with the F4.2 upgrade. No issues as locking on a J-20 from an insane distance none of its sensors can reach...
NOSTRADAMUS can spot a B-2 from 3000km with a 5km accuracy, it's more than enough to guide SAMs with an IR/EO seeker

In fact, they should definitively put up an Asian "NATO" implying USA, JP, SoKo, the ASEAN and India: PRC seems a big economy, but they're freaking indebted, and uncle Xi probably believes that USA is kept afloat by military power which is absolutely wrong, moreover, PRC has territorial disputes with 23 countries and, when you are into building multiple aircraft carriers and LHDs, it's not in a defensive purpose, it's because you want power projection, and there are 23 countries that have legitimate reasons to worry, their recent attack, using medieval weapons against unarmed Indian border guards (there was an agreement that both countries border-guards shouldn't carry firearms in order to avoid border skirmishes!!!) or the Bhutan stand-off show a bellicose state of mind. Asian nations need a containment/deterrent capability or else,..


----------



## jhungary

Wergeland said:


> Second Iraq War?
> 
> Did the US really achieve anything substantial, other than removing Saddam and destroying the whole country.
> 
> While it was distracted in Iraq, China grabbed the opportunity to become a peer competitor, without waging any wars. That is the _true_ Art Of War. To Win without fighting.


China rise is not the same time as US being distracted in Iraq. In fact, war of Iraq cemented US as world number 1 Oil Production country, along with the dominance of USD, this development will mean the US have more grip in the world.

China, on the other hand, is not a competitor with US, have you ever imagine why China have second most GDP in the world yet only less than 3% hold on world currency? Not to mention China oil production is virtually non-existence, how do you compete with the US when US dictate world petroleum trade and currency trade?


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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527788389390491651
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527713695014567936


How many operational SU-57 do the russian air force really have? Last I heard the number was 3.. Claiming they are using SU-57 is just a marketing gimmick.

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## Viet

Until now the war in Ukraine costs Russia 27,000 men. Far exceeding the casualties in Afghanistan with 15,000 men.
Those men were very young between 21-23 year old. Most of them came from poor families in underdeveloped regions in Russia.









Viele waren jung und arm: Erste Erkenntnisse zur Herkunft getöteter russischer Soldaten im Ukraine-Krieg


Wer sind die Soldaten, die für Russland im Krieg gegen die Ukraine sterben? Offenbar sind viele der Männer jung, arm und gehören einer Minderheit an.




amp.tagesspiegel.de











Foto: REUTERS/Sergey Pivovarov
17.05.2022 | 17:05 Uhr

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528033089556971522

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527819685420474369

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527793703280058370

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528033089556971522
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527819685420474369
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527793703280058370


I wonder why Russia is so obsessed with foreigners fighting alongside the ukrainians. Every russian soldier in this war is by definition a foreigner in Ukraine.


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## The SC

MeFishToo said:


> How many operational SU-57 do the russian air force really have? Last I heard the number was 3.. Claiming they are using SU-57 is just a marketing gimmick.


They had 5 serial ones in 2022 ..and 10 for testing..

This one was the first in the serial production..






76 on order..

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## ckf

Apollon said:


> Europe does stop. Oil embargo comes soon, gas is phased ou





Wergeland said:


> Second Iraq War?
> 
> Did the US really achieve anything substantial, other than removing Saddam and destroying the whole country.
> 
> While it was distracted in Iraq, China grabbed the opportunity to become a peer competitor, without waging any wars. That is the _true_ Art Of War. To Win without fighting.


Wars are inflationary, as we are observing today in Ukraine. To prop up Iraq/afghanistan wars, US had to depress interest rates to finance defense spending, which lead to 2008 financial crisis as housing bubble burst. The justification of lower interest rate of course was allowing China to completely dominate global supply chain and Ameican retail factories offshored, which is exactly the predicament America faces today. China has 28.7 % of global industrial output vs 16.8 % of US. US debt to gdp soared to 133.6% of GDP, over 30 trillion. If US loses hi tech race in the future, a repricing of global fiat currency will see US become another Banana Republic.

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## StraightEdge

Putin May Just Be Winning the Information War | Time



> *While 141 countries in the UN voted to condemn Russia’s aggression, the number of African, Middle Eastern and South American countries who have imposed sanctions on Russia is 0.
> 
> Last week, President Joe Biden hosted a summit with eight nations of the Association of Southeast Asian nations, and pressured them to criticize Russia. Their response: silence.*

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## Wergeland

jhungary said:


> China rise is not the same time as US being distracted in Iraq. In fact, war of Iraq cemented US as world number 1 Oil Production country, along with the dominance of USD, this development will mean the US have more grip in the world.
> 
> China, on the other hand, is not a competitor with US, have you ever imagine why China have second most GDP in the world yet only less than 3% hold on world currency? Not to mention China oil production is virtually non-existence, how do you compete with the US when US dictate world petroleum trade and currency trade?



Disgree

China wasnt seen as a real threat back in those days. No one, probably not even most Chinese, could foresee how methodically clever the CPC has been steering the countries economy and innovation to the position where it is now. That is probably the main reason why China was not in the spotlight.

Of course US magnates earned tonnes of money with their factories in China, while the average american worker salaries has been on a standstill. Proven by the elephant curve i posted earlier in this thread. By moving factories to China the US and rest of the West transferred the industrial «knowledge», effectively helping it becoming the juggernaut of today. It was a trade off, China made cheap product and raised the material wealth of the West, in turn it got Industrialization and knowledge transfer, which created a massive middle class.

China today is not only a competitor, but in many ways has checkmated the US. The reason why Yuan is only a minor reserve currency and trade currency is because Peoples Bank want it to be that way. China wins by not letting its currency float freely, as it is pegged to the US dollar. Thus the CNY/USD exchange rate is manipulated, to make Chinese product price competitive.

Chinas economy is probably twice the size of Americas, or at least 50% larger. If Yuan was set free today, the exchange rate with USD would significantly strengthen in CNY favour in matter of months. Automatically making the GDP Nominal way larger.

With the US outsourcing, which is a fancy word for de-industrializing, the US capabilities has been compromized in many ways. There are many industries which will never come back, even if the US want to try revive them. Covid-19 showed how vulnerable the US is to steady delivery of goods from China. That is the real power of China. It dosent have to fire any bullets.

USA became the global powerhouse it is known as today on the back of its industrial might, which by now is mostly gone.
USA still has technological edge in IT and Millitary industry though, for now. But for how long?

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527949904492085248



Yemen's don't have planes.

~


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528046054150754307
LMAO


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528046140847198210

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## jhungary

Wergeland said:


> Disgree
> 
> China wasnt seen as a real threat back in those days. No one, probably not even most Chinese, could foresee how methodically clever the CPC has been steering the countries economy and innovation to the position where it is now. That is probably the main reason why China was not in the spotlight.
> 
> Of course US magnates earned tonnes of money with their factories in China. Proven by the elephant curve i posted earlier in this thread. By moving factories to China the US and rest of the West transferred the industrial «knowledge», effectively helping it becoming the juggernaut of today. It was a trade off, China made cheap product and raised the material wealth of the West, in turn it got Industrialization and knowledge transfer, which created a massive middle class.
> 
> China today is not only a conpetitor, but in many ways has checkmated the US. The reason why Yuan is only a minor reserve currency and trade currency is because Peoples Bank want it to be that way. China wins by not letting its currency float freely, as it is pegged to the US dollar. Thus the CNY/USD exchange rate is manipulated, to make Chinese product price competitive.
> 
> Chinas economy is probably twice the size of Americas, or at least 50% larger. If Yuan was set free today, the exchange rate with USD would significantly strengthen in CNY favour in matter of months. Automatically making the GDP Nominal way larger.
> 
> With the US outsourcing, which is a fancy word for de-industrializing, the US capabilities has been compromized in many ways. There are many industries which will never come back, even if the US want to try revive them. Covid-19 showed how vulnerable the US is to steady delivery of goods from China. That is the real power of China. It dosent have to fire any bullets.
> 
> USA became the global powerhouse it is known as today on the back of its industrial might, which by now is mostly gone.
> USA still has technological edge in IT and Millitary industry though, for now. But for how long?


First of all, have money is not the same as powerful.

And US went thru the same period what China went thru, that is not how US got its power from. In a traditional sense, money does not buy you both hard and soft power. US did not become the global powerhouse on the back of its industrial might, US dominate the world by the financial might, which specifically, modelled the global economy around USD. That is the might of the US. A real War can be fought with money, not bullet, and that's only US can do at this moment. Not a single country can pull this off

Problem for China is that they can be rich, but they don't know how the power game play, China right now is a richer form of Russia, and Russia in turn is a richer form of North Korea. That DOES NOT buy you power. Nor make you a competitor of any kind. Because power is both lead and command, China do not have either.

Again, take my previous example, why China is second biggest GDP in the world yet Yuan is only 3% of world currency? If money is power, then I can say this example can show you China didn't even get that. You cannot dominate currency market if you do not let it float freely, rather if Yuan is float freely, their price will be slaughtered, because a simple fact is no one are going to trade a currency that is going to be heavily controlled by the government, and if that happen, Chinese business base will suffer.

So, what's left? The massive population and its manufacturer base. Manufacturer base can be relocate, US and the world had learn a lesson, they are migrating their supply base back in the US and Europe. On the other hand, COVID 19 also show the weakness of Chinese economy, less than 3 months of shut down and Chinese economy tanked 0.2%, it may not seems a lot, and it's GDP has gone down to 4.8, half of what pre-COVID level. Factory shut down do more harm to the Chinese than to their buyer (US, EU and so on). And the massive population can be a double edge sword, it's all fine and dandy when the country is making money and everyone is happy, what if the money stop coming and people are unhappy??

China is similar to what we think about Japan in the 80s. It's a global factory where many thing were made in Japan back then. Japan is rich, probably as rich as the US if not richer, but does that mean power? I mean today, if I can't get stuff made in China, it is not the end of the world, I can simply pay 10-15% more and get the same stuff that made in Japan, Korea or in Europe.

By the way, CYN/USD is not pegged, HKD/USD is pegged. And I had explained the reason why in this post.

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## vishwambhar

Ukraine has by now lost almost 80% of it's coast line to Russia which is a very bad news for them.... They are into a risk of loosing entire coast line to Russia and become a landlocked country..... Sea access is an opening for any maritime country to a globe..... You loose sea access you loose as a nation....

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## MeFishToo

vishwambhar said:


> Ukraine has by now lost almost 80% of it's coast line to Russia which is a very bad news for them.... They are into a risk of loosing entire coast line to Russia and become a landlocked country..... Sea access is an opening for any maritime country to a globe..... You loose sea access you loose as a nation....


I think Ukraine made a huge mistake not preparing to block, defend or destroy the bridges near Kherson. Its only like 3 bridges crossing Dnepr in the entire southern part of Ukraine. I guess the southern part of Ukraine simply wasnt prepared for an attack.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528073105859543041

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## Wergeland

jhungary said:


> First of all, have money is not the same as powerful.



Never said that.


jhungary said:


> US did not become the global powerhouse on the back of its industrial might, US dominate the world by the financial might, which specifically, modelled the global economy around USD.


Tomato Tomato… same same

US became dominant world power on the back of victory in WW2, where it safely could churn out massive war machinery, because it had the industrial power to do so. Rest of the world was in ruin. So the world was there to be taken, militarily then financially, with only the Soviet acting as a somewhat millitary counterweight. But Soviet never was a industrial or economic superpower the way China is.


jhungary said:


> Problem for China is that they can be rich, but they don't know how the power game play, China right now is a richer form of Russia, and Russia in turn is a richer form of North Korea. That DOES NOT buy you power. Nor make you a competitor of any kind. Because power is both lead and command, China do not have either.



China is very different from Russia and North Korea, both economically and industrial. China dosent rely on setting boots on the ground and historically hasnt been a nation that force its ideology on other nations. So it dosent have to fight constant war, or export its societal model in order to influence other nations. This goes way back to the time of Silk Roads.



jhungary said:


> You cannot dominate currency market if you do not let it float freely, rather if Yuan is float freely, their price will be slaughtered, because a simple fact is no one are going to trade a currency that is going to be heavily controlled by the government, and if that happen, Chinese business base will suffer.



By contrast its the Peoples Bank that keeps USD value higher vis avis CNY, by buying and taking USD out from the market.


jhungary said:


> So, what's left? The massive population and its manufacturer base. Manufacturer base can be relocate, US and the world had learn a lesson, they are migrating their supply base back in the US and Europe.



They are not gonna relocate to Europe or America. Maybe relocate to other developing nations like India, but then again you just create a counterwight to China, creating another powerhouse, which in the end will trade with China, both will become more powerful than today, hastening Multipolarity. That is exactly what i meant with Checkmated. In order for US to have allies and influence in Asia, it has to create big counterweights to China. Asian nations are reluctant to forge any millitary alliance against China and you end up with actually diluting US relative power.


jhungary said:


> On the other hand, COVID 19 also show the weakness of Chinese economy, less than 3 months of shut down and Chinese economy tanked 0.2%, it may not seems a lot, and it's GDP has gone down to 4.8, half of what pre-COVID level. Factory shut down do more harm to the Chinese than to their buyer (US, EU and so on).



And the US economy contracted waaay more. China didnt grow, yes, but calling 0,2% growth for tanked is a exaggeration, compared to the conditions in the rest of the world. OTOH China already has a massive base where 4-5% growth is good enough to add trillions every year.

China population growth is very slow these days, creating some labor shortages in certain sectors. So they themselves are gonna start outsourcing labor intensive industries (Guess to where!?). Compared to 15 years ago, the service sector makes up a much bigger cake of total GDP, i believe its close to 60% of GDP. Making it less vulnerable to export as it used to be. There is also a emerging market next door in Asia, and big markets in Latin America, Africa that also demand cheap goods.



jhungary said:


> China is similar to what we think about Japan in the 80s. It's a global factory where many thing were made in Japan back then. Japan is rich, probably as rich as the US if not richer, but does that mean power? I mean today, if I can't get stuff made in China, it is not the end of the world, I can simply pay 10-15% more and get the same stuff that made in Japan, Korea or in Europe.



Comparison with Japan makes little sense.
Japan is geographically small land of 120 million people, and in many ways a US protectorate with little to say in major defence and foreign policy matters. Thats why Japan was forced to accept Plaza Accord, which broke its back and has stagnated its economy. US could do that because Japan militarily was not a match. China can confidently defi any such agreement by sheer size of its economy, population and millitary power. Trump tried, but lost. Not a shocker.

More worrying for the west, China is actually becoming a very inventive country, by registering millions of patents each year. In many fields they are way ahead, like forexample drones. In high tech they are catching up fast and in some areas ahead of western tech (ref. US congress report). So again, they are not only depedent on selling cheap goods. This trend will only accelerate.
Good luck with getting Made in China products for mere 10-15% higher cost but produced in Europe. That wont happen with the wages here. To not talk about the profit margins. No business owner will move factories to higher cost nation and make less profit, just for sake of patriotism. It would kill many companies.

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## Viet

vishwambhar said:


> Ukraine has by now lost almost 80% of it's coast line to Russia which is a very bad news for them.... They are into a risk of loosing entire coast line to Russia and become a landlocked country..... Sea access is an opening for any maritime country to a globe..... You loose sea access you loose as a nation....


That’s nonsense. This war will continue for 10-20 years. Ukraine is almost twice the size of Germany. Russia must have a million men army to control it. The army Putin doesn’t have.

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## vishwambhar

Viet said:


> That’s nonsense. This war will continue for 10-20 years. Ukraine is almost twice the size of Germany. Russia must have a million men army to control it. The army Putin doesn’t have.



Even if this war continues for 10-20 years till then Ukraine will be almost 80% without coast line.... That's a tragedy....

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## F-22Raptor

vishwambhar said:


> Even if this war continues for 10-20 years till then Ukraine will be almost 80% without coast line.... That's a tragedy....




We’ll see how long Russia can control the coast once Ukraine begins receiving 250-300km Harpoon and NSM missiles.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528079519592157186

All those Russians riding on the back of that APC are now dead


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## zartosht

Oldman1 said:


> First they said the Ukrainians are giving stiff resistance because Russia is actually fighting NATO and not the Ukrainians. Now they claim the Ukrainians as former Russians are the one of the strongest and the best in the world because of Russian mentality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527366592668938250@jhungary @F-22Raptor @Wood



Who exactly is "they"? Official Russian military spokesmen? Or random person, on random tv debate in Russia, having specific lines of a conversation taken out of context, and used to push a certain narrative?

Poor americans... they have been force fed soo much state propaganda by their shitstream media from birth.... That they literally dont even know anymore, and cant state what a "woman" is.. Because their media told them so.... i feel bad for you old man...









TruthSeeker said:


> https://www.understandingwar.org/backgroundyouer/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-20
> RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MAY 20​May 20, 2022 - Press ISW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Download the PDF
> 
> *Karolina Hird, Frederick W. Kagan, and George Barros
> May 20, 5:30 ET
> Russian forces are focusing on digging in and reinforcing defensive positions in Kharkiv and along the Southern Axis in preparation for Ukrainian counteroffensives, while the majority of active offensive operations remain confined to Izyum-Donetsk City arc and especially the Popasna-Severodonetsk area. *The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are creating secondary defensive lines on the Southern Axis, indicating that the Russian grouping in this area may be preparing for a major Ukrainian counter-offensive and a protracted conflict._ Russian forces reportedly are holding defensive positions north of Kharkiv City following the success of the Ukrainian counteroffensive since May 5 and have conducted limited spoiling attacks either to give Russian forces time to complete their redeployment back to Russia in good order or to allow reinforcements to arrive to defend territory in Kharkiv Oblast. Significant Russian offensive operations are confined to the area of Severodonetsk. Russian troops have made marginal gains to the north, west, and south of the city, especially around Popasna, in order to attempt to take control of Severodonetsk.
> *Key Takeaways*_
> 
> _*Russian forces may have made marginal gains to the north, west, and south of Popasna in order to continue their offensive on Severodonetsk from the south.*_
> _*Russian sources may be overstating the number of Ukrainian defenders who have been evacuated from Azovstal to either maximize the number of Russian prisoners of war who may be exchanged for Ukrainian soldiers or to avoid the embarrassment of admitting they have been locked into a months-long siege against only “hundreds” of Ukrainian soldiers.*_
> _*Russian troops reportedly regained certain positions taken by the Ukrainian counteroffensive north of Kharkiv City.*_
> _*Russian forces are likely preparing for a major Ukrainian counteroffensive and protracted conflict on the Southern Axis.*_
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> _*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.
> ISW has updated its assessment of the four primary efforts Russian forces are engaged in at this time. We have stopped coverage of supporting effort 4, ”Sumy and northeastern Ukraine,” because it is no longer an active effort.:*_
> 
> 
> _
> Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
> Subordinate main effort- Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
> Supporting effort 1—Mariupol;
> Supporting effort 2—Kharkiv City;
> Supporting effort 3—Southern axis.
> _
> _*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
> Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
> Russian forces conducted unspecified offensive operations in the direction of Slovyansk but did not make any confirmed advances on May 20.[ii] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian troops are attempting to erect a pontoon bridge over the Severskyi Donets River in the vicinity of Yaremivka, about 25 kilometers southeast of Izyum in the direction of Slovyansk.[iii] Russian forces additionally conducted artillery strikes on Dovhenke and Dolyna, both southeast of Izyum heading towards Slovyansk.[iv]
> Russian forces reportedly intensified efforts to break through Ukrainian defenses around Popasna in order to push towards Severodonetsk from the south on May 20. Pro-Russian news sources reported that Russian forces made advances through Ukrainian lines of defense in three directions. Russian Airborne (VDV) forces reportedly took control of Volodymirivka and Lypove, and broke through Ukrainian defenses in Komyshuvakha, all north of Popasna.[v] Troops of the Russian ”Wagner” Private Military Company reportedly took control of Trypillya and Vyskrivka to the west of Popasna.[vi] Ukrainian sources noted that offensive operations are on-going in Vyskrivka.[vii] Russian forces additionally reportedly took control of Troitske, south of Popasna.[viii] Such reports are consistent with Ukrainian General Staff statements that the Russian grouping around Popasna is trying to take new frontiers in the area.[ix] NASA’s Fire Information for Resource Management (FIRMS) data, however, does not show a concentration of fires in this area, which may suggest that the Russian sources are exaggerating the scale or significance of the attacks, although the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence in this case.[x] The purported encirclement of the Popasna area may be an effort to break through Ukrainian defenses in order to provide support for the on-going battle for Severodonetsk, where Russian troops are making marginal gains and reportedly took control of Shchedryshcheve and Syrotne, just north of Severodonetsk.[xi]
> Russian forces reportedly made marginal gains during ground attacks in Donetsk Oblast on May 20. Pro-Russian Telegram channels stated that Russian forces are trying to encircle a Ukrainian grouping around Svyatohirsk and are storming Yarova, both west of Lyman and within 10 kilometers of the border with Kharkiv Oblast.[xii] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are continuing offensive operations around Lyman and will likely continue to push west to meet Russian forces in Southern Kharkiv Oblast.[xiii] Russian forces are additionally conducting unsuccessful assault operations around Donetsk City in the vicinity of Avdiivka and Novobakhmutivka.[xiv]_
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Supporting Effort #1—Mariupol (Russian objective: Capture Mariupol and reduce the Ukrainian defenders)*
> Russian sources may be overstating the number of Ukrainian defenders who have been evacuated from the Azovstal Steel Plant as of May 20. Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu stated that nearly 2,000 Ukrainian fighters have left Azovstal since evacuations began, whereas the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) reported that it has registered only “hundreds” of Ukrainian prisoners of war.[xv] The discrepancy could result merely from delays in ICRC registrations or reporting. Official Russian sources may also be obfuscating the true number of evacuees for various reasons, however. The Russians might claim that they have captured more Ukrainian soldiers than they actually did in order to maximize the number of Russian prisoners that can be exchanged should they agree on a prisoner swap with Ukraine. The Russian leadership may also seek to avoid the embarrassment of admitting that their forces have been locked in a months-long siege by ”hundreds” rather than ”thousands” of Ukrainian defenders. Commander of the Azov Regiment Denis Prokopenko additionally stated that he has given the command to stop the defense of Mariupol to save the lives of the defenders of Azovstal, so evacuation numbers will likely rise in the coming days.[xvi]
> The Ukrainian General Staff reports that Russian forces are continuing filtration measures in Mariupol.[xvii] Advisor to the Mayor of Mariupol Petro Andryushchenko additionally made a number of claims that ISW cannot independently verify. He asserted that Russian troops are planning to use filtration camps in Mariupol to forcibly mobilize men into the militia of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR).[xviii] He claimed that the Russian occupation administration in Mariupol is planning a census for men aged 18 to 50 to further force mobilization into the DNR.[xix] He also asserted that four schools in Mariupol are set to open by the end of May under ”Russian standards and Russian programs,” with a full implementation of Russian curricula reportedly slated for fall of 2022.[xx] Andryushchenko’s claims are consistent with overall trends of filtration and occupation processes in Mariupol that ISW has been able to verify through other sources, although these particular claims are unverified at this time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Supporting Effort #2—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
> Russian forces focused on regaining positions taken by Ukrainian forces during the counteroffensive north of Kharkiv City on May 20.[xxi] Russian forces are reportedly fighting in Vesele, Tsyrkuny, Zolochiv, and Ternova and may have recaptured Ternova and Rubizhne, although ISW cannot independently confirm these claims at this time.[xxii] Such efforts are likely spoiling attacks meant to disrupt the Ukrainian counteroffensive in northern Kharkiv Oblast with the intention of either buying Russian forces time to withdraw and redeploy to other axes of advance or to reinforce defensive positions to the north of Kharkiv City. Russian forces additionally continued to shell Kharkiv City and its environs, likely to further distract Ukrainian forces from cohering offensive actions towards the Russian border.[xxiii]
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Supporting Effort #3—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
> Russian forces focused on strengthening existing defensive lines and creating secondary defensive lines on the Southern Axis but did not make any confirmed advances on May 20.[xxiv] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian troops are bringing engineering equipment to frontlines on the Southern Axis to construct a second line of defense, which likely indicates that Russian forces are preparing to defend against possible Ukrainian counter-offensives and settling in for protracted operations in Southern Ukraine.[xxv] Russian forces conducted rocket, missile, and artillery attacks against Kherson, Zaporizhia, Dnipropetrovsk, and Odesa Oblasts.[xxvi]
> The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian special services are continuing to destabilize the situation in Transnistria through disseminating disinformation about the mining of social infrastructure and state institutions in Tiraspol, Bender, Dubossary, and Rybnytsia.[xxvii]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Immediate items to watch*_
> 
> 
> _
> Russian forces will likely complete their withdrawal from the vicinity of Kharkiv City but attempt to hold a line west of Vovchansk to defend their GLOCs from Belgorod to Izyum. It is unclear if they will succeed.
> The Russians will continue efforts to encircle Severodonetsk and Lysychansk at least from the south, possibly by focusing on cutting off the last highway connecting Severodonetsk-Lysychansk with the rest of Ukraine.
> Russian forces are likely preparing for Ukrainian counteroffensives and settling in for protracted operations in Southern Ukraine.
> _



no credible military would use the term "evacuate" to describe the mass surrender at azovstal.. that alone is enough to throw this piece into the same trash pile as your everyday CNN propaganda. please dont post such long gibberish, nonesense.. once they learn the difference between a "surrender" and a "evacuation" then they can start doing some complex analysis..

Learn the Basic ABCs before trying to write paragraphs.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528094174121234432


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## MeFishToo

F-22Raptor said:


> We’ll see how long Russia can control the coast once Ukraine begins receiving 250-300km Harpoon and NSM missiles.


Harpoon coastal defence
Denmark decommissioned the Harpoon coastal defence system years ago. Knowing Denmark, they are probably stored somewhere all forgotten. I noticed land based launcher platforms are limited. Maybe Ukraine are going to recieve those.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528093085086978049

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528093090380120064

Ukraine believes the Russian Army will collapse in August. Now Russian sources seem to confirm that.

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## jhungary

Wergeland said:


> Never said that.



Well, I am saying it



Wergeland said:


> Tomato Tomato… same same
> 
> US became dominant world power on the back of victory in WW2, where it safely could churn out massive war machinery, because it had the industrial power to do so. Rest of the world was in ruin. So the world was there to be taken, with only the Soviet acting as a somewhat millitary counterweight. But Soviet never was a industrial or economic superpower the way China is.'



Well, usually if someone said "Same Same" it's not,...

The reason why US is dominant after WW2 is because of the money US lent to Europe to reconstruction, which lead to Europe adopt a US debt system, which leads to USD become the world currency reserve and Bretton Woods system being abolished and de-pegged with Gold.

This have nothing to do with Military. We are talking about post war, US had not expanded their territories since 1840s after we took Texas and California off Mexico. 

And I would not say China is a "Economic Superpower" again, being Rich and being powerful are two different concept, 



Wergeland said:


> China is very different from Russia and North Korea, both economically and industrial. China dosent rely on setting boots on the ground and historically hasnt been a nation that force its ideology on other nations. So it dosent have to fight constant war, or export its societal model in order to influence other nations. This goes way back to the time of Silk Roads.



Neither did North Korea or to some extend Russia. 

Again, in terms of Governance, it is similar, of course there are going to be different, but it is minimal.



Wergeland said:


> By contrast its the Peoples Bank that keeps USD value higher vis avis CNY, by buying and taking USD out from the market.


Central Bank have no choice, because China is export driven economy, a high value Yuan is bad for business (as I explained before) And this exact action is what Currency Domination is all about. US basically made their currency into a commodity. 

It is not the Chinese Central Bank choose to do it, they HAVE TO do it. 

Also, There are no such things as People Bank, there is a Renmin Bank, but that was a commercial bank, not the central bank that control monetary policy




Wergeland said:


> They are not gonna relocate to Europe or America. Maybe relocate to other developing nations like India, but then again you just create a counterwight to China, creating another powerhouse, which in the end will trade with China, both will become more powerful than today, hastening Multipolarity. That is exactly what i meant with Checkmated. In order for US to have allies and influence in Asia, it has to create big counterweights to China. Asian nations are reluctant to forge any millitary alliance against China and you end up with actually diluting US relative power.



Hmm, I don't know about Europe, but US has started "Made in America" policy since Trump is in office

US has already relocated more than 45% of production back to US, and Biden aiming at the end of his term all essential material are made in US. 









The Biden Plan to Ensure the Future is “Made in All of America” by All of America’s Workers - Joe Biden for President: Official Campaign Website


Joe Biden will mobilize the talent, grit, and innovation of the American people and the full power of the federal government to bolster American industrial and technological strength and ensure the future is “made in all of America” by all of America’s workers. Biden believes that American...




joebiden.com





Also, the Current Russian war and COVID pandemic has taught US and Europe that they can no longer depend on a single source of product, which mean they are going to diversify their investment. Which mean they do not just going to create a counteract to China, but everywhere, and being the riches nations on earth, they have the financial means to do so, which lower the risk of being blackmailing into ana action, hence no checkmate.

And well, there are ALWAYS military alliance against China. As long as the Chinese government act like the current one. There are no better advertisement than a "Strong and Bully" China to have country like Japan, South Korea, India, Vietnam fall in line. It's like NATO, the more Russia push, the more people want to join NATO. Again, you cannot threaten someone not joining an alliance against you, that would only make them want to join more.






Wergeland said:


> And the US economy contracted waaay more. China didnt grow, yes, but calling 0,2% growth for tanked is a exaggeration, compared to the conditions in the rest of the world. OTOH China already has a massive base where 4-5% growth is good enough to add trillions every year.
> 
> China population growth is very slow these days, creating some labor shortages in certain sectors. So they themselves are gonna start outsourcing labor intensive industries (Guess to where!?). Compared to 15 years ago, the service sector makes up a much bigger cake of total GDP, i believe its close to 60% of GDP. Making it less vulnerable to export as it used to be. There is also a emerging market next door in Asia, and big markets in Latin America, Africa that also demand cheap goods.



Actually, no

First of all, both US and China projected grow are set back with 0.2% (2,6->2.4 for US, 5.0-4.8 for China) but that means literally nothing in the US because US are a matured economy. They do not dump money into the economy to develop more because they can't develop more

However, China depends on that growth to maintain the developmental stage of that country, which mean any shrinking would mean less budget to put into future development (Which is a problem US do not have) which would start a negative cycle on economy downturn. 

And finally, service industry in China is around 54.5%, it is around 83 % in the US. China is still depends on export as it is roughly account for 39-40% while Primary Product are down to 7.3%, so yes, even tho that dependence weened, it is by no mean no relevant 



Wergeland said:


> Comparison with Japan makes little sense.
> Japan is geographically small land of 120 million people, and in many ways a US protectorate with little to say in major defence and foreign policy matters. Thats why Japan was forced to accept Plaza Accord, which broke its back and has stagnated its economy. US could do that because Japan militarily was not a match. China can confidently defi any such agreement by sheer size of its economy, population and millitary power. Trump tried, but lost. Not a shocker.



What's Plaza Accord have to do with Military Power?

First of all, Plaza Accord is a depreciation of USD against Mark, Franc and Yen. Basically all the country that signed this accord is due to economic pressures because US is threaten default to runs over the three currency. The problem for Yen is after Plaza Accord, both Germany and France joined Eurozone and adopted Euro as their currency and have the entire Europe backing, which avoided the asset burst, Japan on the other hand did not, which basically means their dependence of USD (as it is their primary trading partner back then) means all the debt they hold would worth nothing overnight.

If US wanted to do that to China, they can, again, China have no right to decide US monetary policy of course that would damage US economy, but then it would have damage China more, as there are more US asset in China than vice versa (Bond, Stock, fixed asset and so on) which mean all those US asset China is currently holding would worth nothing.......

So what are you saying is, if US will not dare to depreciate their own currency because China would invade?? 



Wergeland said:


> More worrying for the west, China is actually becoming a very inventive country, by registering millions of patents each year. In many fields they are way ahead, like forexample drones. In high tech they are catching up fast and in some areas ahead of western tech (ref. US congress report). So again, they are not only depedent on selling cheap goods. This trend will only accelerate.



Applying patent and granting them are two separate issue, why don't you check how many patent were granted to China every year?









Total patents in USPTO ( Patent ) | Countries Report | STATNANO


The indicator shows the number of total granted patents in USPTO. According to WIPO, a patent is an exclusive right granted for an invention, which is a..




statnano.com





Also, being granted more patent (not going to use applying more patent) have no bearing with being inventive. Google Nest is probably one of the most inventive application in 2010s, how many patent does it grant to google? 3.

Just because you applying for more patent (Let alone granting them) does not make you more inventive



Wergeland said:


> Good luck with getting Made in China products for mere 10-15% higher cost but produced in Europe. That wont happen with the wages here. To not talk about the profit margins. No business owner will move factories to higher cost nation and make less profit, just for sake of patriotism. It would kill many companies.



All I can say is you are clearly out of date with the market price for just about everything. Go out and see how much a "made in China" product cost now compare to "made in US" or "made in Europe"? You do know not every country in EU are as rich as Norway or Sweden or Germany, right? Places like Hungary, Bulgaria and Croatia has becoming European Factory in the recent decade, their rages are comparable to the Chinese (average on the 3 aforementioned country are about USD 20,000-24,000 a year, China is about 18,000 a year.


----------



## MeFishToo

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528093085086978049
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528093090380120064
> 
> Ukraine believes the Russian Army will collapse in August. Now Russian sources seem to confirm that.


Hopefully Ukraine is going to win this war. But I honestly doubt Ukraine is any better than Russia carrying out offensive operations. I think it is going to be one long artillery duel with a static front line.


----------



## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> Well, I am saying it
> 
> 
> 
> Well, usually if someone said "Same Same" it's not,...
> 
> The reason why US is dominant after WW2 is because of the money US lent to Europe to reconstruction, which lead to Europe adopt a US debt system, which leads to USD become the world currency reserve and Bretton Woods system being abolished and de-pegged with Gold.
> 
> This have nothing to do with Military. We are talking about post war, US had not expanded their territories since 1840s after we took Texas and California off Mexico.
> 
> And I would not say China is a "Economic Superpower" again, being Rich and being powerful are two different concept,
> 
> 
> 
> Neither did North Korea or to some extend Russia.
> 
> Again, in terms of Governance, it is similar, of course there are going to be different, but it is minimal.
> 
> 
> Central Bank have no choice, because China is export driven economy, a high value Yuan is bad for business (as I explained before) And this exact action is what Currency Domination is all about. US basically made their currency into a commodity.
> 
> It is not the Chinese Central Bank choose to do it, they HAVE TO do it.
> 
> Also, There are no such things as People Bank, there is a Renmin Bank, but that was a commercial bank, not the central bank that control monetary policy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, I don't know about Europe, but US has started "Made in America" policy since Trump is in office
> 
> US has already relocated more than 45% of production back to US, and Biden aiming at the end of his term all essential material are made in US.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Biden Plan to Ensure the Future is “Made in All of America” by All of America’s Workers - Joe Biden for President: Official Campaign Website
> 
> 
> Joe Biden will mobilize the talent, grit, and innovation of the American people and the full power of the federal government to bolster American industrial and technological strength and ensure the future is “made in all of America” by all of America’s workers. Biden believes that American...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> joebiden.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, the Current Russian war and COVID pandemic has taught US and Europe that they can no longer depend on a single source of product, which mean they are going to diversify their investment. Which mean they do not just going to create a counteract to China, but everywhere, and being the riches nations on earth, they have the financial means to do so, which lower the risk of being blackmailing into ana action, hence no checkmate.
> 
> And well, there are ALWAYS military alliance against China. As long as the Chinese government act like the current one. There are no better advertisement than a "Strong and Bully" China to have country like Japan, South Korea, India, Vietnam fall in line. It's like NATO, the more Russia push, the more people want to join NATO. Again, you cannot threaten someone not joining an alliance against you, that would only make them want to join more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, no
> 
> First of all, both US and China projected grow are set back with 0.2% (2,6->2.4 for US, 5.0-4.8 for China) but that means literally nothing in the US because US are a matured economy. They do not dump money into the economy to develop more because they can't develop more
> 
> However, China depends on that growth to maintain the developmental stage of that country, which mean any shrinking would mean less budget to put into future development (Which is a problem US do not have) which would start a negative cycle on economy downturn.
> 
> And finally, service industry in China is around 54.5%, it is around 83 % in the US. China is still depends on export as it is roughly account for 39-40% while Primary Product are down to 7.3%, so yes, even tho that dependence weened, it is by no mean no relevant
> 
> 
> 
> What's Plaza Accord have to do with Military Power?
> 
> First of all, Plaza Accord is a depreciation of USD against Mark, Franc and Yen. Basically all the country that signed this accord is due to economic pressures because US is threaten default to runs over the three currency. The problem for Yen is after Plaza Accord, both Germany and France joined Eurozone and adopted Euro as their currency and have the entire Europe backing, which avoided the asset burst, Japan on the other hand did not, which basically means their dependence of USD (as it is their primary trading partner back then) means all the debt they hold would worth nothing overnight.
> 
> If US wanted to do that to China, they can, again, China have no right to decide US monetary policy of course that would damage US economy, but then it would have damage China more, as there are more US asset in China than vice versa (Bond, Stock, fixed asset and so on) which mean all those US asset China is currently holding would worth nothing.......
> 
> So what are you saying is, if US will not dare to depreciate their own currency because China would invade??
> 
> 
> 
> Applying patent and granting them are two separate issue, why don't you check how many patent were granted to China every year?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Total patents in USPTO ( Patent ) | Countries Report | STATNANO
> 
> 
> The indicator shows the number of total granted patents in USPTO. According to WIPO, a patent is an exclusive right granted for an invention, which is a..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> statnano.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, being granted more patent (not going to use applying more patent) have no bearing with being inventive. Google Nest is probably one of the most inventive application in 2010s, how many patent does it grant to google? 3.
> 
> Just because you applying for more patent (Let alone granting them) does not make you more inventive
> 
> 
> 
> All I can say is you are clearly out of date with the market price for just about everything. Go out and see how much a "made in China" product cost now compare to "made in US" or "made in Europe"? You do know not every country in EU are as rich as Norway or Sweden or Germany, right? Places like Hungary, Bulgaria and Croatia has becoming European Factory in the recent decade, their rages are comparable to the Chinese (average on the 3 aforementioned country are about USD 20,000-24,000 a year, China is about 18,000 a year.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528079835653890051

Ukraine is now building toward a 1 million man military and the Russian trolls don’t even realize it. The Russians are going to be outnumbered by the end of the year, and the Ukrainians armed with advanced Western weapons.


----------



## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> We’ll see how long Russia can control the coast once Ukraine begins receiving 250-300km Harpoon and NSM missiles.


MTCR not count in such a time?



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528079835653890051
> 
> Ukraine is now building toward a 1 million man military and the Russian trolls don’t even realize it. The Russians are going to be outnumbered by the end of the year, and the Ukrainians armed with advanced Western weapons.


Numbers dont win wars. Just look at the Pak-Indo scenario. If we go by numbers, India should've steam rolled Pakistan in all its wars and control all of Kashmir. But they havent...


----------



## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528079835653890051
> 
> Ukraine is now building toward a 1 million man military and the Russian trolls don’t even realize it. The Russians are going to be outnumbered by the end of the year, and the Ukrainians armed with advanced Western weapons.


I think you had quoted the wrong person


----------



## F-22Raptor

MeFishToo said:


> Hopefully Ukraine is going to win this war. But I honestly doubt Ukraine is any better than Russia carrying out offensive operations. I think it is going to be one long artillery duel with a static front line.



The tide is shifting in Ukraines favor, in both numbers and weapons. I believe Ukraines defense minister Reznikov stated the next couple months will be a hard slog, attritional warfare. But things will begin to turn in Ukraines favor by autumn and winter. 

Ukraines military is slowly getting stronger.



Huffal said:


> MTCR not count in such a time?
> 
> 
> Numbers dont win wars. Just look at the Pak-Indo scenario. If we go by numbers, India should've steam rolled Pakistan in all its wars and control all of Kashmir. But they havent...




It’s the numbers plus armed with advanced Western weapons. Ukraines military is now funded until the end of the year by the US. Ukraine is getting stronger, slowly.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528111899824599046


----------



## Viet

vishwambhar said:


> Even if this war continues for 10-20 years till then Ukraine will be almost 80% without coast line.... That's a tragedy....


That’s not a certainty. Life will be hell. There won’t be no peace. Russia must maintain a large occupation army to fight any resistance and rebellion. Putin will erect concentration camps. He will erect gulags middle in Ukraine.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528020333315375104

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> It’s the numbers plus armed with advanced Western weapons. Ukraines military is now funded until the end of the year by the US. Ukraine is getting stronger, slowly.


Same with India, but we saw their lack luster performance in 62 and 65


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Wergeland said:


> I know its not related to the millitary objectives, as i already pointed out.
> There is a reason the US Army still is World No1.
> 
> The rationale as you said is a political question thus the answer rests on policymakers. Still i ask the question because shouldnt it matter if a millitary victory is helpful or not? Pondering those questions could help make policymakers use hard power more selectively in the future.


I think that the Taliban will certainly think twice about their policy decisions in the future.
Saddam and Gaddafi will not, unless there is a hell.



Blueindian said:


> B
> 
> But wasn't kuwait stealing oil ?
> Saddam invasion of kuwait was thus justified


Kuwait and Iraq are both on top of the same oil field.
Kuwait was pumping oil inside their own territory.
That is their sovereign right.
Saddams sovereign right is to do the same in Iraq.


----------



## F-22Raptor

There’s new info coming in that another Russian BTG has been destroyed attempting to cross the Siverskyi Donets River….again.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
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## Wergeland

A.P. Richelieu said:


> think that the Taliban will certainly think twice about their policy decisions in the future.
> Saddam and Gaddafi will not, unless there is a hell.



So you finally agree with me about Libya and Iraq war and what it was all bout. Only that it took you some days to admit it.


----------



## vishwambhar

Huffal said:


> Same with India, but we saw their lack luster performance in 62 and 65



62 okay... 65 you opened mission to capture kutch and Kashmir and you had plans of having dinner in Delhi and end of the day you were defending lahore from India..... 

@F-22Raptor don't believe in such lies....

Anyways I am not going to reply further as this thread belongs to Ukraine Russia war....

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## PDF

jhungary said:


> This have nothing to do with Military. We are talking about post war, US had not expanded their territories since 1840s after we took Texas and California off Mexico.


What about U.S. territories such as Guam, American Samoa, Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, Hawaii etc?

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## Paul2

Raffie said:


> So, yup, no fuss, Putler can absolutely make EU/NATO



No, even in case of nocasualty treatment whatsoever, and famine, and everything, you can only expect 100m in the most improbable scenario.

It's only 10% of populatio.


----------



## Paul2

MeFishToo said:


> Hopefully Ukraine is going to win this war. But I honestly doubt Ukraine is any better than Russia carrying out offensive operations. I think it is going to be one long artillery duel with a static front line.



They have not a lot of choice there. They are extremely protective of their long range fires.

It means any push has to run through Russian artillery range.

And they don't have that much APCs to do that. They may have enough tanks on some directions, but APCs is the most urgent need for a counteroffensive.


----------



## Primus

vishwambhar said:


> 62 okay... 65 you opened mission to capture kutch and Kashmir and you had plans of having dinner in Delhi and end of the day you were defending lahore from India.....
> 
> @F-22Raptor don't believe in such lies....
> 
> Anyways I am not going to reply further as this thread belongs to Ukraine Russia war....


Nice lying. 

Im sure Arnab had a spot for you ar Republic TV or whatever the hell its called. 

65 - you launched an unprovoked assault in the Rann of Kutch which was stalled by the FC and later defeated by the SSG (when they hit your supplies behind enemy lines). This unprovoked assault led to the failed operation Gibraltar, which then led to India declaring war on Pakistan, pushing past the IB claiming to have tea in Lahore after taking it. What happened was, the Indian army being stalemated and counter attacked by a nation 5x smaller than itself. As per the CIA, the land india gained was mostly inconsequential and unimportant, despite holding more land. The performance of the indian military against a much smaller Pakistan was 'uninspiring', and the losses were heavier. CIA puts losses for India at 6000 Infantry (KIA, WIA, MIA) 300 tanks lost and N/A for Air losses. Pakistans was 4000 infantry (KIA, WIA, MIA) 250 tanks lost and N/A for air force.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Huffal said:


> Same with India, but we saw their lack luster performance in 62 and 65




Ukraine has for the most part been performing exceptionally. They just needed the Western equipment and intelligence, which their getting. Their now funded until the end of the year. 

The Ukrainians are currently training about 100K new recruits that will be sent to the front lines in the coming months.

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## zartosht

Dubya having a hard time keeping up with american hypocrisy


----------



## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraine has for the most part been performing exceptionally. They just needed the Western equipment and intelligence, which their getting. Their now funded until the end of the year.
> 
> The Ukrainians are currently training about 100K new recruits that will be sent to the front lines in the coming months.


Too be honest, this war has seen a catalogue of failures and successes from both sides. 

My respect goes with the soldiers actually fighting though. Regardless of their nationality or beliefs.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527806125491384320

Reactions: Angry Angry:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

sammuel said:


> Yemen's don't have planes.
> 
> ~




They have cruise missiles and unmanned planes aka drones.


----------



## ckf

Viet said:


> That’s nonsense. This war will continue for 10-20 years. Ukraine is almost twice the size of Germany. Russia must have a million men army to control it. The army Putin doesn’t have.


US cannot finance Ukraine forever especially at $200 million a day. Ukraine depends totally on NATO and US to provide weapons and humanitarian support for its entire population during the war. The cost are only going to escalate if you add in rebuilding costs + inflation. US has enough issues on its own, and Biden miscalculated that Sanctions and fierce resistance will break Russia financially. Much of those assumptions has not materialized. Russia is focusing efforts in the east only, so logistic issues will be more of a challenge for the Ukrainian army. Ukraine army was never configure for an offensive war, so Zelensky's fantasy to recapture the East will never materialize unless Putin is sacked/Russia collapsed. Indication are very abysmal so far for Ukraine. Zelensky also has to consider long term effects of War in Ukraine, which also has deep demographic issues due to losing 6 million refugees, and Donbass, Luhansk and Mariupol area is around 2 million. So ukraine lost 8 million people leaving the country and most never returning. If the war drags on, more and more people will be leaving. With only 25 million people, and such a large geographical size, and shattered infrastructure, Ukraine will be hemorrhaging for a very long time.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528159081902530560

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527875554858438658

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


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## Paul2

ckf said:


> US cannot finance Ukraine forever especially at $200 million a day. Ukraine depends totally on NATO and US to provide weapons and humanitarian support for its entire population during the war. The cost are only going to escalate if you add in rebuilding costs + inflation. US has enough issues on its own, and Biden miscalculated that Sanctions and fierce resistance will break Russia financially. Much of those assumptions has not materialized. Russia is focusing efforts in the east only, so logistic issues will be more of a challenge for the Ukrainian army. Ukraine army was never configure for an offensive war, so Zelensky's fantasy to recapture the East will never materialize unless Putin is sacked/Russia collapsed. Indication are very abysmal so far for Ukraine. Zelensky also has to consider long term effects of War in Ukraine, which also has deep demographic issues due to losing 6 million refugees, and Donbass, Luhansk and Mariupol area is around 2 million. So ukraine lost 8 million people leaving the country and most never returning. If the war drags on, more and more people will be leaving. With only 25 million people, and such a large geographical size, and shattered infrastructure, Ukraine will be hemorrhaging for a very long time.



US been spending up to $2B per week on Afghanistan only, during most hot months.

It actually been spending more past the first years, when all direct firefights have ended.


----------



## Paul2

Another big problem of Ukraine is lack of battalion level officers, one was told on telegrams, there is a deep pit in between tons of new lieutenants, and NCOs, and people in division level, and GHQ

NATO paid for lieutenants, and had few young generals trained in Westpoint for a few years, but the lion share of Ukrainian officers are older, USSRian style trained people who envy quickly advancing young bloods. People who got their first stars during pre-reform era are a drag, but there is no replacements yet.


----------



## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> There’s new info coming in that another Russian BTG has been destroyed attempting to cross the Siverskyi Donets River….again.



Russians are truly a bunch of cannon fodder,the only way they are capturing territories is by sending waves after waves hoping for one to break through and outnumber the enemy.

Nothing changed since ww2.


----------



## TruthSeeker

Institute for the Study of War


Russian forces intensified efforts to encircle and capture Severodonetsk on May 21 and will likely continue to do so in the coming days as efforts on other axes of advance, including Izyum, remain largely stalled. Russian troops in Luhansk Oblast will




www.understandingwar.org





RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MAY 21​May 21, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF

*Karolina Hird, George Barros, and Mason Clark
May 21, 5:30 pm ET*​*Russian forces intensified efforts to encircle and capture Severodonetsk on May 21 and will likely continue to do so in the coming days as efforts on other axes of advance, including Izyum, remain largely stalled. *Russian troops in Luhansk Oblast will likely move to capitalize on recent gains made in the Rubizhne-Severodonetsk-Luhansk-Popasna arc to encircle and besiege Severodonetsk—the final Ukrainian strongpoint in Luhansk Oblast. Russian milbloggers are hypothesizing on the success of Russian tactics in the area and have dubbed it the Battle of Severodonetsk—emphasizing that this is the preliminary line of effort in the Donbas theatre.
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces are conducting operations to cut off Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) between Severodonetsk and Lysychansk across the Severskyi Donetsk River.*
*The information space in Mariupol will likely become increasingly restricted in the coming weeks as Russian forces shift focus from completing the capture of the Azovstal Steel Plant to consolidating occupational control of the city.*
*Russian troops are likely reinforcing their grouping around Kharkiv City to prevent further Ukrainian advances toward the international border.*
*Russian forces may be assembling forces in certain areas of Zaporizhia and Kherson oblasts to initiate further offensive operations on the southern axis.*
*

*
*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.
ISW has updated its assessment of the four primary efforts Russian forces are engaged in at this time. We have stopped coverage of supporting effort 4, “Sumy and northeastern Ukraine,” because it is no longer an active effort.*

Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate main effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
Supporting effort 1—Mariupol; 
Supporting effort 2—Kharkiv City;
Supporting effort 3—Southern axis.
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces made small advances southeast of Izyum on May 21. Footage posted by the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) on May 21 showed DNR forces examining a destroyed dam in Oskil, about 10 km southeast of Izyum, suggesting that Ukrainian forces likely withdrew from the settlement across the Oskil River.[1] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces around Izyum are preparing to resume an offensive in the direction of Slovyansk.[2] Russian forces additionally shelled Velyka Komyshuvakha to the southwest of Izyum and Dovehenke to the southeast of Izyum, indicating they plan to continue offensive operations to the south of Izyum.[3]
Russian forces made gains in the Rubizhne-Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area and intensified efforts to capture Severodonetsk on May 21. Russian troops blew up a bridge across the Severskyi Donetsk River between Severodonetsk and Lysychansk, setting conditions to sever Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) and take Severodonetsk.[4] Pro-Russian milbloggers wrote about the beginning of the Battle of Severodonetsk on May 20 and claimed that Russian forces are closing in on the area from the north, east, and south.[5] The milbloggers emphasized the importance of disrupting Ukrainian GLOCs between Lysychansk and Severodonetsk, which are facilitated by at least two major bridges across the Severskyi Donetsk River. Russian forces’ destruction of at least one of the two bridges between the two towns will likely hinder Ukrainian GLOCs to Severodonetsk and indicate a Russian effort to encircle the city.[6] Russian forces reportedly conducted attacks against several towns around Popasna, which may allow them to push northward toward Severodonetsk.[7] Russian claims about their gains around Popasna remain unconfirmed by open sources as of the time of this publication.[8]



Russian forces focused on offensive operations around Lyman but did not make any confirmed advances on May 21.[9] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian troops are fighting in Lypove, Vasylivka, Marinka, and Novomykhailivka under air and artillery support and that Russian forces plan to resume operations in the area of Yampil-Siversk (just east of Lyman) by crossing the Severskyi Donets River.[10] The main Russian effort in the Lyman area will likely focus on advancing westward to reach the Donetsk-Kharkiv Oblast administrative border and merge with operations to the south of Izyum.



*Supporting Effort #1—Mariupol (Russian objective: Capture Mariupol and reduce the Ukrainian defenders)*
The Russian Ministry of Defense claimed full control of Mariupol as the last group of Ukrainian fighters surrendered and left the Azovstal Steel Plant on May 21.[11] The announcement of the conclusion of hostilities in Mariupol comes a month after Russian President Vladimir Putin and Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu claimed victory in the Battle of Mariupol on April 21.[12] Russian forces reportedly began demining the territory of the plant and restoring the Port of Mariupol.[13]
Russian occupation forces are likely intensifying “filtration” processes to consolidate control of Mariupol. Ukrainian Ombudsman Lyudmila Denisova stated that up to 4,000 men from Mariupol are now in filtration camps outside of the city, and Advisor to the Mayor of Mariupol Petro Andryushchenko claimed that Chechen Rosgvardia troops are taking over control of filtration points as DNR forces redeploy to other areas.[14] The information space in Mariupol will likely become increasingly restricted in the coming weeks as Russian forces shift their attention from the capture of Azovstal to consolidating occupational control over the city.
*Supporting Effort #2—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces maintained their positions to prevent further Ukrainian advances toward the Russian border and conducted air and artillery strikes north of Kharkiv City on May 21.[15] The Ukrainian General Staff noted that Russia intends to strengthen its grouping around Kharkiv City with unspecified elements of the 1st Guards Tank Army.[16] The Internal Minister of the Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) additionally claimed that its personnel are operating in Vovchansk, northern Kharkiv Oblast.[17] These reports indicate that Russian forces are reinforcing their presence north of Kharkiv City to hold their current positions and push back potential Ukrainian advances further north toward the international border and east toward Russian GLOCs heading toward Izyum. 



*Supporting Effort #3—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces may be preparing for an offensive to capture the remainder of northern Kherson Oblast and push toward Zaporizhia City despite not making any confirmed advances on the southern axis on May 21.[18] The Kherson Regional State Administration stated that Russian troops are replenishing their grouping in Vysokopillyya and Arkhangelske, northern Kherson Oblast, in anticipation of increased combat activity in the area of the Kherson-Mykolaiv Oblast border.[19] The Zaporizhia Regional Military Administration noted that there is a high concentration of Russian forces in Inzhenerne, south of Huliapole, indicating that Russian troops are potentially preparing for continued offensives toward Huliapole.[20] The Zaporizhia Regional Military Administration claimed that occupying forces in Melitopol are hanging banners to celebrate the 220th anniversary of the Taurida Governate, which may indicate Russian forces intend to make occupied areas in Kherson and Zaporizhia a quasi-republic like the LNR or DNR, but also emphasizes lack of consistency in handling occupation agendas across Ukraine.[21] Russian forces additionally shelled and launched missile strikes on Mykolaiv, Odesa, Zaporizhia, and Kherson oblasts.[22]



Ukrainian authorities are reportedly strengthening border security between Ukraine and Transnistria.[23] The local Ukrainian border guard detachment announced new restrictions prohibiting the civilian use of drones, night vision equipment, and navigation of small boats in the area. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces are protecting the border and conducting counter-sabotage measures.[24]



*Immediate items to watch*

Russian forces are likely reinforcing their grouping north of Kharkiv City to prevent further advances of the Ukrainian counteroffensive toward the Russian border. Russan forces may commit elements of the 1st Tank Army to northern Kharkiv in the near future. 
The Russians will continue efforts to encircle Severodonetsk and Lysychansk at least from the south, possibly by focusing on cutting off the last highway connecting Severodonetsk-Lysychansk with the rest of Ukraine.
Russian forces in Mariupol will likely shift their focus to occupational control of the city as the siege of Azovstal has concluded.
Russian forces are likely preparing for Ukrainian counteroffensives and settling in for protracted operations in southern Ukraine.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528014124554272768
Before ;






After 



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528113014163087360


----------



## jhungary

PDF said:


> What about U.S. territories such as Guam, American Samoa, Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, Hawaii etc?


We were talking about military invasion. Hawaii and American Samoa were settled by the US in late 1700s and early 1800s, where Guam, CNMI and Puerto Rico is ceded after Spanish American war, which is an extension of Cuban Civil War.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ARMalik

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528048116204699648


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528144085080584199





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528140359372529664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528095800169050113

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528180895961718787

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528085729020153858


----------



## The SC

The Russian Defense Ministry announces the destruction of a shipment of Western weapons destined for Ukraine

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Nuclear Clown

MeFishToo said:


> How many operational SU-57 do the russian air force really have? Last I heard the number was 3.. Claiming they are using SU-57 is just a marketing gimmick.


India pulled the plug after having spent $6.1bn in the project in April 2018.
If I remember well, IAF deemed it as not stealth, underpowered, sub par to what was announced and overpriced and other points... Well, at least Sukhoi can pretend competing Lockheed Martin in terms of selling overexpensive subpar aircraft


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528152094238285825


----------



## Nuclear Clown

The SC said:


> The Russian Defense Ministry announces the destruction of a shipment of Western weapons destined for Ukraine


He also has announced that hiss Waffen SS have shot down close to thrice the Ukrainian Air Force pre-24 Feb. inventory...


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528153095615791104


----------



## The SC

Raffie said:


> He also has announced that hiss Waffen SS have shot down close to thrice the Ukrainian Air Force pre-24 Feb. inventory...


Ukraine inherited from the former Soviet Union assets that make the Ukrainian air force the third largest in the world. Its inventory includes longrange bombers, transport planes, strike aircraft, reconnaissance and electronic warfare planes, a large contingent of tactical and air defense fighters and training aircraft. By 1995 the former four air armies are being restructured into three aviation groups and one naval aviation group. Air force personnel will be cut from its 1992 strength of 86,000 to 25,000 by 1999, while the inventory of 1,380 combat planes would be reduced to 1,090 in 1995 and to 590 by 1999. The air defense contingent is being reshaped from one air defense army and three corps into three air defense corps, and its strength will be reduced from its present 67,000 to 26,000 personnel.

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/ukraine/vps.htm

The Ukrainian Air Force Just Got Bigger. Someone Gave Kyiv More MiG Parts.​https://www.forbes.com/sites/davida...meone-gave-kyiv-more-mig-29s/?sh=6960f91c3c8b


----------



## Nuclear Clown

The SC said:


> We know for sure that they need war every 10-20 years.. and they plan and create conditions for it in a long term scheme..
> The USA simply got outfoxed by China..yes now a days.. but then the West was seeing China as a manufacturing hub that made them trillions of dollars in profit and a potential huge market for their products as it proved to be after enhancing the quality of living of the Chinese people.. but China was smart to diversify its market and spread it globally..So not to depend on the West only..


Seems that ruSSia "needs" a little more than a war every 10 years...
*List of wars involving the ruSSian Federation (1991–present)*
and they obviously need an humiliating defeat way more than these wars !!!



The SC said:


> Ukraine inherited from the former Soviet Union assets that make the Ukrainian air force the third largest in the world. Its inventory includes longrange bombers, transport planes, strike aircraft, reconnaissance and electronic warfare planes, a large contingent of tactical and air defense fighters and training aircraft. By 1995 the former four air armies are being restructured into three aviation groups and one naval aviation group. Air force personnel will be cut from its 1992 strength of 86,000 to 25,000 by 1999, while the inventory of 1,380 combat planes would be reduced to 1,090 in 1995 and to 590 by 1999. The air defense contingent is being reshaped from one air defense army and three corps into three air defense corps, and its strength will be reduced from its present 67,000 to 26,000 personnel.
> 
> https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/ukraine/vps.htm
> 
> The Ukrainian Air Force Just Got Bigger. Someone Gave Kyiv More MiG Parts.​https://www.forbes.com/sites/davida...meone-gave-kyiv-more-mig-29s/?sh=6960f91c3c8b


ROFL, prior to 24 Feb., they barely had 100 combat aircraft



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> They have cruise missiles and unmanned planes aka drones.


Don't confuse Yemen and the Houthis who are Iran's puppets. Houthis only weight 15% of Yemeni public opnion, it's even why they did a coup!


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528144113916334091

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528123454498779136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528155027482759168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528124041629794304

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528118058962894848







Very rare Belgian assault rifle FN F2000 caliber 5.56x45 mm in the hands of the Ukrainian army


----------



## Beast

MeFishToo said:


> The current “strenght” of the ruble is a facade. Its Russia manipulating the market and manufacturing demands for a currency nobody wants. Putin is taking an enormous risk using its biggest revenue, which is gas, as a bargaining chip to uphold this bridge for the ruble. If he insist that gas is payed in ruble, it will lead to renegotiation of contracts, and that will definitely lead to drastic reductions of the amount of gas being exported to the west - and possibly a total collaps of the the ruble and the russian economy.


You think EU has the choice? You are deluding yourself. If they have a choice , the question wouldn't even ask plus they have a big partner called China.


----------



## Nuclear Clown

ckf said:


> US cannot finance Ukraine forever especially at $200 million a day. Ukraine depends totally on NATO and US to provide weapons and humanitarian support for its entire population during the war. The cost are only going to escalate if you add in rebuilding costs + inflation. US has enough issues on its own, and Biden miscalculated that Sanctions and fierce resistance will break Russia financially. Much of those assumptions has not materialized. Russia is focusing efforts in the east only, so logistic issues will be more of a challenge for the Ukrainian army. Ukraine army was never configure for an offensive war, so Zelensky's fantasy to recapture the East will never materialize unless Putin is sacked/Russia collapsed. Indication are very abysmal so far for Ukraine. Zelensky also has to consider long term effects of War in Ukraine, which also has deep demographic issues due to losing 6 million refugees, and Donbass, Luhansk and Mariupol area is around 2 million. So ukraine lost 8 million people leaving the country and most never returning. If the war drags on, more and more people will be leaving. With only 25 million people, and such a large geographical size, and shattered infrastructure, Ukraine will be hemorrhaging for a very long time.


The fact is that ruSSia has a $66bn military budget and spends 4% of its GDP in this, moreover, 20% of this budget is embezzled => it's about the same budget as France except France spends less than 2% of its GDP...
In fact, NATO's cumulated military budget is about 1.2 trillions of US dollars, it's about 2 thirds of ruSSia's GDP and the GDP of NATO/EU countries weights twice the Chinese one for a population around 1 billion...
You don't seem to get how things are going : once the necessary weapons transferred, all that is needed are ammos... 
ruSSia has already lost close to half of its modern tanks in less than 3 months and the economy is barely on par with S-Korea... 
Make no mistake, the sanctions are hurting and badly, there are many measures that are not short term ones. A central bank can keep a money value by raising interest rates but it's unsustainable on the long run, look at Turkey : they rose the interest rates to 20% to prevent the Lira from falling, but the fact is the economy felt from, if I remember well, $1.2-1.3 trillions to $700bn.
BTW, Medvedev, or was it Lavrov, spoke about economical war... That was wrong! It's a SPECIAL TRADE OPERATION...


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528015410091679748

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527991870571352064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527966438123876353

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528087518977089548

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528093090040500225

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528162991941853185

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528195896369987584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528183515724005377


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528166464993247232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528121068795219968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528149965721452544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528165813135482881


Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528164607390523394


----------



## ckf

Raffie said:


> The fact is that ruSSia has a $66bn military budget and spends 4% of its GDP in this, moreover, 20% of this budget is embezzled => it's about the same budget as France except France spends less than 2% of its GDP...
> In fact, NATO's cumulated military budget is about 1.2 trillions of US dollars, it's about 2 thirds of ruSSia's GDP and the GDP of NATO/EU countries weights twice the Chinese one for a population around 1 billion...
> You don't seem to get how things are going : once the necessary weapons transferred, all that is needed are ammos...
> ruSSia has already lost close to half of its modern tanks in less than 3 months and the economy is barely on par with S-Korea...
> Make no mistake, the sanctions are hurting and badly, there are many measures that are not short term ones. A central bank can keep a money value by raising interest rates but it's unsustainable on the long run, look at Turkey : they rose the interest rates to 20% to prevent the Lira from falling, but the fact is the economy felt from, if I remember well, $1.2-1.3 trillions to $700bn.
> BTW, Medvedev, or was it Lavrov, spoke about economical war... That was wrong! It's a SPECIAL TRADE OPERATION...


There's alot of hope and hubris in your statements. If Russia was so weak, why doesn't NATO declare no fly zone or send in military forces, and or attck Russia directly? Russia has Nukes. North Korea and Iran has survived years after Sanctions, Why wouldn't Russia survive? Russia has complete industrial manufacturing defense supply chain, tanks will be rolling off the assembly line as we speak. The hard part is training, logistics, and tactical integration. Ukraine has no offensive capabilities because NATO would not send offensive weapons (WWIII if offensive attack on Russia). Realistically, Ukrainian Army are not designed for offensive intrusions. As for the 1.2 trillion defense budget, 70% is to pay salaries, and the rest is just inflated fiat currency #s. US capabilities are overwhelming and global, but against nuclear power like Russia, its useless. Poor Ukrainians are the cannon fodder, stop spreading lies to justify senseless sacrifice of Ukrainian civilian + military personnel lives as well as Russian soldiers in this senseless proxy war that's cratering the entire global financial markets right now. Eurozone inflation is already at 8% in germany, like 16% in Lithuania and that's using funny math. US inflation also hitting 8.6%, US deficit is 30 trillion and every dollar spend in Ukraine will have to borrow from somewhere, most likely from China and Japan. Eurozone deficit isn't any better, so as banks globally are raising interest rates. Tax payers from G7 eventually have to pay for the war in Ukraine + interest to China...Let that sink in a bit, rather than spending money to better your own country, you rather pay china and Ukrainians. Lets see how well this plays out. Talk is cheap, I am sure we will see the answers by beginning of next year, so good luck with that.

Reactions: Like Like:
4 | Haha Haha:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528156682165051393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528156440602476545

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528156279755227136


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528143626823426048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528140359372529664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528091873197309952
⚡️EXCLUSIVE NEWS⚡️
Assault on the outskirts of Kamyshevakhi by the forces of the Russian Marine Corps


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528075200557944833


----------



## Viet

ckf said:


> US cannot finance Ukraine forever especially at $200 million a day. Ukraine depends totally on NATO and US to provide weapons and humanitarian support for its entire population during the war. The cost are only going to escalate if you add in rebuilding costs + inflation. US has enough issues on its own, and Biden miscalculated that Sanctions and fierce resistance will break Russia financially. Much of those assumptions has not materialized. Russia is focusing efforts in the east only, so logistic issues will be more of a challenge for the Ukrainian army. Ukraine army was never configure for an offensive war, so Zelensky's fantasy to recapture the East will never materialize unless Putin is sacked/Russia collapsed. Indication are very abysmal so far for Ukraine. Zelensky also has to consider long term effects of War in Ukraine, which also has deep demographic issues due to losing 6 million refugees, and Donbass, Luhansk and Mariupol area is around 2 million. So ukraine lost 8 million people leaving the country and most never returning. If the war drags on, more and more people will be leaving. With only 25 million people, and such a large geographical size, and shattered infrastructure, Ukraine will be hemorrhaging for a very long time.


War costs money. The war costs Russia $25 billion per month. Putin wants to exterminate Ukraine, he wants to restore the border of USSR. He threatens to nuke EU, US, anyone that stands on his way. $200 million bill per day for the US tax payers is manageable.


----------



## Viet

Raffie said:


> The fact is that ruSSia has a $66bn military budget and spends 4% of its GDP in this, moreover, 20% of this budget is embezzled => it's about the same budget as France except France spends less than 2% of its GDP...
> In fact, NATO's cumulated military budget is about 1.2 trillions of US dollars, it's about 2 thirds of ruSSia's GDP and the GDP of NATO/EU countries weights twice the Chinese one for a population around 1 billion...
> You don't seem to get how things are going : once the necessary weapons transferred, all that is needed are ammos...
> ruSSia has already lost close to half of its modern tanks in less than 3 months and the economy is barely on par with S-Korea...
> Make no mistake, the sanctions are hurting and badly, there are many measures that are not short term ones. A central bank can keep a money value by raising interest rates but it's unsustainable on the long run, look at Turkey : they rose the interest rates to 20% to prevent the Lira from falling, but the fact is the economy felt from, if I remember well, $1.2-1.3 trillions to $700bn.
> BTW, Medvedev, or was it Lavrov, spoke about economical war... That was wrong! It's a SPECIAL TRADE OPERATION...


This 3-day special military ops will continue to years. Unless Putin can kill until the last Ukraine man and women. If superpower USSR failed to defeat afghan rebels how will much weaker Russia defeat an all out resistant Ukrainians? Zelenskki receives military support by 40 countries. Putin finances the war alone by selling coal, oil, gas. The time of war of aggression is long over.


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## ckf

Viet said:


> War costs money. The war costs Russia $25 billion per month. Putin wants to exterminate Ukraine, he wants to restore the border of USSR. He threatens to nuke EU, US, anyone that stands on his way. $200 million bill per day for the US tax payers is manageable.


What does Manageble mean? Do u understand $30 trillion deficit? Biden poll # is like 70% disapproval on economy and 61 % disapproval overall. Democrats will be in deep dodooo in midterm elections. If u do live in Germany, and shop groceries, you know food inflation is like 100% compare to last year and overall inflation is like 30-50% and climbing fast.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

ckf said:


> What does Manageble mean? Do u understand $30 trillion deficit? Biden poll # is like 70% disapproval on economy and 61 % disapproval overall. Democrats will be in deep dodooo in midterm elections. If u do live in Germany, and shop groceries, you know food inflation is like 100% compare to last year and overall inflation is like 30-50% and climbing fast.


If you live next door to a hooligan and rapist will you be more worried of food inflation or safety of your family?
Do you think Pakistan will give up nuclear weapons just because they can buy more foods?
I can feel for Ukrainian people. Vietnam faces similar threat from the north. Do you think we will pick foods over a rifle?


----------



## S10

Raffie said:


> The fact is that ruSSia has a $66bn military budget and spends 4% of its GDP in this, moreover, 20% of this budget is embezzled => it's about the same budget as France except France spends less than 2% of its GDP...
> In fact, NATO's cumulated military budget is about 1.2 trillions of US dollars, it's about 2 thirds of ruSSia's GDP and the GDP of NATO/EU countries weights twice the Chinese one for a population around 1 billion...
> You don't seem to get how things are going : once the necessary weapons transferred, all that is needed are ammos...
> ruSSia has already lost close to half of its modern tanks in less than 3 months and the economy is barely on par with S-Korea...
> Make no mistake, the sanctions are hurting and badly, there are many measures that are not short term ones. A central bank can keep a money value by raising interest rates but it's unsustainable on the long run, look at Turkey : they rose the interest rates to 20% to prevent the Lira from falling, but the fact is the economy felt from, if I remember well, $1.2-1.3 trillions to $700bn.
> BTW, Medvedev, or was it Lavrov, spoke about economical war... That was wrong! It's a SPECIAL TRADE OPERATION...



Looks like Russia can keep this up for a long time:









Russia's January-April current account surplus more than triples to $96 billion


Russia ran a current account surplus of $95.8 billion in the first four months of 2022, up from $27.5 billion in the same period last year, central bank data showed on Monday.




www.reuters.com

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

ckf said:


> What kind of logic is that, we are talking about millions of people's lives and you are talking about hooligans and rapist propaganda. Just too much senseless white trash talk pretending to be a viet.


What “white” trash? What has a war with do with skin color? You begin to speak like a racist.


----------



## Apollon

vishwambhar said:


> Ukraine has by now lost almost 80% of it's coast line to Russia which is a very bad news for them.... They are into a risk of loosing entire coast line to Russia and become a landlocked country..... Sea access is an opening for any maritime country to a globe..... You loose sea access you loose as a nation....



Doubtful that Russia is able to take Odessa



S10 said:


> Looks like Russia can keep this up for a long time:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia's January-April current account surplus more than triples to $96 billion
> 
> 
> Russia ran a current account surplus of $95.8 billion in the first four months of 2022, up from $27.5 billion in the same period last year, central bank data showed on Monday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com



So can we.


----------



## The SC




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## A.P. Richelieu

Wergeland said:


> So you finally agree with me about Libya and Iraq war and what it was all bout. Only that it took you some days to admit it.


 I agree that some people need to draw conclusions from the wars.


----------



## MeFishToo

Beast said:


> You think EU has the choice? You are deluding yourself. If they have a choice , the question wouldn't even ask plus they have a big partner called China.


The west have made a choice to distance iiself from Russia. It may hurt the economy, but thats a price most EU countries seems to accept. Demanding payment in rubles is just making it easier for the countries who doesnt need years in order to make the shift from russian energy supplies, because they are now legally allowed to leave long term contracts.

Me personally, I dont mind China buying all the russian gas and oil. Democracies shouldnt be financing a fascist regime threatening a nuclear response while invading a neighbor. China is not a democracy, so go ahead.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## A.P. Richelieu

ckf said:


> There's alot of hope and hubris in your statements. If Russia was so weak, why doesn't NATO declare no fly zone or send in military forces, and or attck Russia directly? Russia has Nukes. North Korea and Iran has survived years after Sanctions, Why wouldn't Russia survive? Russia has complete industrial manufacturing defense supply chain, tanks will be rolling off the assembly line as we speak. The hard part is training, logistics, and tactical integration. Ukraine has no offensive capabilities because NATO would not send offensive weapons (WWIII if offensive attack on Russia). Realistically, Ukrainian Army are not designed for offensive intrusions. As for the 1.2 trillion defense budget, 70% is to pay salaries, and the rest is just inflated fiat currency #s. US capabilities are overwhelming and global, but against nuclear power like Russia, its useless. Poor Ukrainians are the cannon fodder, stop spreading lies to justify senseless sacrifice of Ukrainian civilian + military personnel lives as well as Russian soldiers in this senseless proxy war that's cratering the entire global financial markets right now. Eurozone inflation is already at 8% in germany, like 16% in Lithuania and that's using funny math. US inflation also hitting 8.6%, US deficit is 30 trillion and every dollar spend in Ukraine will have to borrow from somewhere, most likely from China and Japan. Eurozone deficit isn't any better, so as banks globally are raising interest rates. Tax payers from G7 eventually have to pay for the war in Ukraine + interest to China...Let that sink in a bit, rather than spending money to better your own country, you rather pay china and Ukrainians. Lets see how well this plays out. Talk is cheap, I am sure we will see the answers by beginning of next year, so good luck with that.


NATO is a defensive alliance, haven’t you heard?
It has been in the news for months that Russia has stopped production of tanks because they cannot get hold of western electronic components.


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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528143626823426048
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528140359372529664
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528091873197309952
> ⚡️EXCLUSIVE NEWS⚡️
> Assault on the outskirts of Kamyshevakhi by the forces of the Russian Marine Corps
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528075200557944833


The “mining of women and children” is obviously a russian propaganda setup meant to justify its invasion. I dont understand why you repost such disinformation. Its not like the internet isnt flooded with it already.


----------



## jhungary

S10 said:


> Looks like Russia can keep this up for a long time:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia's January-April current account surplus more than triples to $96 billion
> 
> 
> Russia ran a current account surplus of $95.8 billion in the first four months of 2022, up from $27.5 billion in the same period last year, central bank data showed on Monday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com


96 billions in 3 months (4 depends on how they count from Jan-April) is really bad, actually considering this war is costing Russia upward to 25 billions a month, there aren't much Russian can spend on anything else (4/5 of that surplus goes into this war, and not counting the replacement equipment cost.) That surplus have to go into the country as well, not just everything is going to this war.

Fighting a war ain't cheap, and especially when you are fighting alone, and when you lost the ability of borrow money for it.

Also, a lot of those money are from selling asset Russia know they are going to be sanction or confiscated. If you want to look at the number, look at the next quarter and that will paint a more realistic picture,


----------



## MeFishToo

jhungary said:


> 96 billions in 3 months (4 depends on how they count from Jan-April) is really bad, actually considering this war is costing Russia upward to 25 billions a month, there aren't much Russian can spend on anything else (4/5 of that surplus goes into this war, and not counting the replacement equipment cost.) That surplus have to go into the country as well, not just everything is going to this war.
> 
> Fighting a war ain't cheap, and especially when you are fighting alone, and when you lost the ability of borrow money for it.
> 
> Also, a lot of those money are from selling asset Russia know they are going to be sanction or confiscated. If you want to look at the number, look at the next quarter and that will paint a more realistic picture,


According to the pro-russians, Russia can not fail. Judging from some of the posts here, Russia practically rules the world and hold the power to eigther starve, freeze or nuke us all to death.


----------



## jhungary

MeFishToo said:


> According to the pro-russians, Russia can not fail. Judging from some of the posts here, Russia practically rules the world and hold the power to eigther starve, freeze or nuke us all to death.


This war is costing Russia a lot, you can't really fight a war without money, this is where the West is hurting the Russian at the moment, the longer the war drag on, the more money Russia have to burn to keep the fighting going, Russian war chest is going to run out in 3 to 5 months time, by then if Russia still have no made significant inroad, unless they fancy sending only troop in Ukraine with their AK, they would either have to stop or have some other backer finance the war, namely China.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## SalarHaqq

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The link simply confirms that Incendiary Weapons fall under the treaty of Incendiary Weapons.



It is explicit about the fact that white phosphorous can be used as an incendiary weapon and will then squarely fall under the restrictions regulating the latter.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> ”If munitions containing white phosphorous are used to mark military targets or to *spread smoke* then their use is regulated by the *basic rules* of international humanitarian law.”
> 
> I.E., they are not subject to the treaty on Incendiary Weapons.



White phosphorous containing munitions qualify as incendiary weapons if deliberately fired against military or civilian targets.

As unequivocally explained by the ICRC:







*"using white phosphorous as an incendiary weapon" 
"the use of such white phosphorus weapons against any military objective within concentrations of civilians is prohibited" 
"particular care must be taken when attacking a military target with incendiary weapons containing white phosphorous" 
"the fact that international humanitarian law does not specifically prohibit white phosphorous weapons does not imply that any specific use of weapons containing this substance is legal" 
"It may be legal or not, depending on a variety of factors" *

There's no ambiguity in there, nor room for wordplay.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Study shows money lost from the companies leaving Russia amounts to 45% of GDP​Research from Yale shows that companies exiting Russia are taking with them revenues equal to almost half of Russia's GDP.
By Sebastian Shehadi



Western companies withdrawing from Russia, such as H&M and Zara, have cost the country's economy dear. (Photo by Kirill Kudryavtsev/AFP via Getty Images)


Academics at the Yale School of Management have found that revenue drawn from the (near) 1,000 companies curtailing or ending operations in Russia is equivalent to approximately 45% of Russia’s gross domestic product (GDP).

“This is an approximation, so note that some companies, such as Pepsi, are continuing some sales in Russia but have pulled back on others, so it is impossible to say that every dollar from that 45% is now lost,” explains Steven Tian, research director at the Yale Chief Executive Leadership Institute. “Nonetheless, the sum is staggering and really emphasises the magnitude of this business withdrawal.”

Tian is part of the Yale team that has produced the definitive, go-to list of companies withdrawing or staying in Russia, which is still being updated at time of writing.









Study shows money lost from the companies leaving Russia amounts to 45% of GDP


Research from Yale shows that companies exiting Russia are taking with them revenues equal to almost half of Russia's GDP.




www.investmentmonitor.ai

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528306709244039168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528326529700200448


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> This war is costing Russia a lot, you can't really fight a war without money, this is where the West is hurting the Russian at the moment, the longer the war drag on, the more money Russia have to burn to keep the fighting going, Russian war chest is going to run out in 3 to 5 months time, by then if Russia still have no made significant inroad, unless they fancy sending only troop in Ukraine with their AK, they would either have to stop or have some other backer finance the war, namely China.


the Chinese are paranoid they believe they will be next target. Xi will step in to finance this Russian war. With $3 trillion forex from China Putin can continue this crusade against Ukraine for 10 years.


----------



## wahhab0202

I don't this is true. If it is then it
Must hilarious.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528157391384199170

Reactions: Wow Wow:
3


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## nangyale

wahhab0202 said:


> I don't this is true. If it is then it
> Must hilarious.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528157391384199170


Ofcourse this is true. 

The US is trillions of dollars in debt and on top they are running a budget deficit. Meaning they don't have the money to balance their books. Let alone pay Ukraine's war expenditure.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ali_Baba

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528046054150754307
> LMAO
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528046140847198210



It does make you wonder if the journalist had left on the geolocation meta-data from their smart phone - which gave the co-ordinates required to attack it ?


----------



## MeFishToo

Ali_Baba said:


> It does make you wonder if the journalist had left on the geolocation meta-data from their smart phone - which gave the co-ordinates required to attack it ?


Maybe they’re using counter battery radars, or they were just located by the drone that captured the footage.
I’ll bet this footage isnt part of the russian news.



nangyale said:


> Ofcourse this is true.
> 
> The US is trillions of dollars in debt and on top they are running a budget deficit. Meaning they don't have the money to balance their books. Let alone pay Ukraine's war expenditure.


75-80% of american debt is owned by americans. Why do you think they would have to borrow from the chineese?

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## nangyale

MeFishToo said:


> 75-80% of american debt is owned by americans. Why do you think they would have to borrow from the chineese?


You can substitute Chinese for Japanese, the Brits or American oligarchs. The bottom line is that money needs to be borrowed.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

SalarHaqq said:


> It is explicit about the fact that white phosphorous can be used as an incendiary weapon and will then squarely fall under the restrictions regulating the latter.
> 
> 
> 
> White phosphorous containing munitions qualify as incendiary weapons if deliberately fired against military or civilian targets.
> 
> As unequivocally explained by the ICRC:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"using white phosphorous as an incendiary weapon"
> "the use of such white phosphorus weapons against any military objective within concentrations of civilians is prohibited"
> "particular care must be taken when attacking a military target with incendiary weapons containing white phosphorous"
> "the fact that international humanitarian law does not specifically prohibit white phosphorous weapons does not imply that any specific use of weapons containing this substance is legal"
> "It may be legal or not, depending on a variety of factors" *
> 
> There's no ambiguity in there, nor room for wordplay.





SalarHaqq said:


> It is explicit about the fact that white phosphorous can be used as an incendiary weapon and will then squarely fall under the restrictions regulating the latter.
> 
> 
> 
> White phosphorous containing munitions qualify as incendiary weapons if deliberately fired against military or civilian targets.
> 
> As unequivocally explained by the ICRC:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"using white phosphorous as an incendiary weapon"
> "the use of such white phosphorus weapons against any military objective within concentrations of civilians is prohibited"
> "particular care must be taken when attacking a military target with incendiary weapons containing white phosphorous"
> "the fact that international humanitarian law does not specifically prohibit white phosphorous weapons does not imply that any specific use of weapons containing this substance is legal"
> "It may be legal or not, depending on a variety of factors" *
> 
> There's no ambiguity in there, nor room for wordplay.





SalarHaqq said:


> It is explicit about the fact that white phosphorous can be used as an incendiary weapon and will then squarely fall under the restrictions regulating the latter.
> 
> 
> 
> White phosphorous containing munitions qualify as incendiary weapons if deliberately fired against military or civilian targets.
> 
> As unequivocally explained by the ICRC:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"using white phosphorous as an incendiary weapon"
> "the use of such white phosphorus weapons against any military objective within concentrations of civilians is prohibited"
> "particular care must be taken when attacking a military target with incendiary weapons containing white phosphorous"
> "the fact that international humanitarian law does not specifically prohibit white phosphorous weapons does not imply that any specific use of weapons containing this substance is legal"
> "It may be legal or not, depending on a variety of factors" *
> 
> There's no ambiguity in there, nor room for wordplay.


This is not ambigious.




Smoke shells with white phosporus always spread smoke, so they are not incendiary weapons according to your link.
If you claim that the text says that that smoke shells that generate smoke can be used as incendiary weapons, then it is as ambigious as is possible.

Here is a later comment from the Red Cross.
This an official statement after an inquiry.





Customary IHL - 85. The Use of Incendiary Weapons against Combatants


85. The Use of Incendiary Weapons against Combatants



ihl-databases.icrc.org










The conclusion of the inquiry was that although Israel used a lot of White Phosphorus, the use was never a war crime.


----------



## MeFishToo

nangyale said:


> You can substitute Chinese for Japanese, the Brits or American oligarchs. The bottom line is that money needs to be borrowed.


Yes, and they dont seem to have a hard time finding purchasers of treasury bills. I guess the world is confident the US has the economic power to pay them back .
Eventually they’ll probably have to raise taxes, but not in the near future. 

The chineese national debt in relation to GDP is actually closing in on the USA, thats partly why I think its a little odd telling us the USA needs to borrow from China - but mostly because the US debt is primarily owned by the americans themself. Its just a way to avoid raising taxes.

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## SalarHaqq

A.P. Richelieu said:


> This is not ambigious.
> View attachment 846597
> 
> Smoke shells with white phosporus always spread smoke, so they are not incendiary weapons according to your link.



According to the link I shared, white phosphorous can be used as an incendiary weapon, and in that case it will be considered as such from the legal point of view.

The ICRC official's statement leave no room for semantic interpretation.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> If you claim that the text says that that smoke shells that generate smoke can be used as incendiary weapons, then it is as ambigious as is possible.



I don't claim anything in this regard since the text is self-explanatory. There's nothing ambiguous about the fact that white phosphorous can and has abundantly been used a weapon in the past (e.g. WW1 etc).



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Here is a later comment from the Red Cross.
> This an official statement after an inquiry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Customary IHL - 85. The Use of Incendiary Weapons against Combatants
> 
> 
> 85. The Use of Incendiary Weapons against Combatants
> 
> 
> 
> ihl-databases.icrc.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 846607
> 
> 
> The conclusion of the inquiry was that although Israel used a lot of White Phosphorus, the use was never a war crime.



This would be a selective citation. In fact there's no contradiction between this and the earlier statements of the ICRC arms experts which I quoted.

Here is what the document is stating prior to that excerpt:






They are clearly distinguishing between two possible uses of white phosphorous: as part of smoke grenades or as part of exploding munitions. As far as exploding munitions are concerned, it is claimed that they were never employed on built-up areas, nor for anti-personnel purposes. Thence the authors are actually reiterating that white phosphorous may very well be used in an anti-personnel role, in which case it will have to be considered an incendiary weapon.

It's precisely because the munitions allegedly weren't used in densely populated areas that the inquires concludes to the absence of a war crime. This perfectly reflects the rule relative to the prohibition of incendiary weapons as per Protocol III, Article 2.2 of the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons.

To summarize:

* White phosphorous shells are fired with the purpose of generating smoke, while observing general rules relative to the protection of civilians in war =
- white phosphorous does not qualify as an incendiary weapon
- no war crime

* White phosphorous shells are fired with the purpose of killing combatants or damaging materiel in areas where no civilians are concentrated =
- white phosphorous does qualify as an incendiary weapon
- but no war crime

* White phosphorous shells are fired with the purpose of killing combatants or damaging materiel in areas where civilians are concentrated =
- white phosphorous does qualify as an incendiary weapon
- war crime

* White phosphorous shells are fired with the purpose of killing civilians or damaging civilian infrastructure not relevant to the war effort =
- it doesn't matter whether white phosphorous is an incendiary weapon or not
- war crime

All of which was perfectly expanded upon by the ICRC in 2009:


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

SalarHaqq said:


> According to the link I posted, white phosphorous can be used as an incendiary weapon, and in that case it will be considered as such from the legal point of view.
> 
> The ICRC official's statement leave no room for semantic interpretation.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't claim anything in this regard since the text is self-explanatory. There's nothing ambiguous about the fact that white phosphorous can and has abundantly been used a weapon in the past (e.g. WW1 etc).
> 
> 
> 
> That would be a selective citation. In fact there's no contradiction between this and the earlier statements of the ICRC arms experts which I quoted.
> 
> Here is what the document is stating prior to that excerpt:
> 
> View attachment 846628
> 
> 
> They are clearly distinguishing between two possible uses of white phosphorous: as part of smoke grenades or as part of exploding munitions. As far as exploding munitions are concerned, it is claimed that they were never employed on built-up areas, nor for anti-personnel purposes. Thence the authors are actually reiterating that white phosphorous may very well be used in an anti-personnel role, in which case it will have to be considered an incendiary weapon.
> 
> It's precisely because the munitions allegedly weren't used in densely populated areas that the inquires concludes to the absence of a war crime. This perfectly reflects the rule relative to the prohibition of incendiary weapons as per Protocol III, Article 2.2 of the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons.
> 
> To summarize:
> 
> * White phosphorous shells are fired with the purpose of generating smoke, while observing general rules relative to the protection of civilians in war =
> - white phosphorous does not qualify as an incendiary weapon
> - no war crime
> 
> * White phosphorous shells are fired with the purpose of killing combatants or damaging materiel in areas where no civilians are concentrated =
> - white phosphorous does qualify as an incendiary weapon
> - but no war crime
> 
> * White phosphorous shells are fired with the purpose of killing combatants or damaging material in areas where civilians are concentrated =
> - white phosphorous does qualify as an incendiary weapon
> - war crime
> 
> * White phosphorous shells are fired with the purpose of killing civilians or damaging civilian infrastructure not relevant to the war effort =
> - it doesn't matter whether white phosphorous is an incendiary weapon or not
> - war crime
> 
> All of which was perfectly expanded upon by the ICRC in 2009:


You ”rules” suddenly drop the ”exploding” prefix, so your ”rules” do not reflect the link.
Smoke Grenades are never Indendiary Weapons.
As you have comprehension problems, you are on ignore.

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## SalarHaqq

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You ”rules” suddenly drop the ”exploding” prefix, so your ”rules” do not reflect the link.
> Smoke Grenades are never Indendiary Weapons.
> As you have comprehension problems, you are on ignore.



Correction: those are regulations of international law, stipulated for in Protocol III of the CCW.

International law does not systematically regard white phosphorous shells as smoke grenades. It all depends on the purpose with which they are made use of.

As explained by the ICRC in 2009. The last paragraph below is explicit as to the fact that the legality of white phosphorous varies on a case to case basis i.e. there's no general rule, the second and third paragraphs make it clear that if fired with the intent of killing enemy combatants, then rules applicable to incendiary weapons will also apply to white phosphorous (prohibition of use against military objectives within _concentrations of civilians_ is a phrase lifted straight out of the CCW treaty's provision restricting the employment of incendiary weapons):






I'm not the one with comprehension issues.


----------



## Paul2

jhungary said:


> 96 billions in 3 months (4 depends on how they count from Jan-April) is really bad, actually considering this war is costing Russia upward to 25 billions a month, there aren't much Russian can spend on anything else (4/5 of that surplus goes into this war, and not counting the replacement equipment cost.) That surplus have to go into the country as well, not just everything is going to this war.



I find a problem with this calculation.

The cost of war is not all cost of guns, and bullets. These cost little, and actually nothing to Russia now since they are mostly spending old USSRian weapons, which they got for free.

Similarly, soldier's salaries are only due go when they come back from war, and you don't pay salaries to dead soldiers.

Ukrainian telegrams tell that Russian payment to injured soldiers is $50, or is being denied all together instead of $75,000 advertised by Putin. And reports of this seem be quite solid.

So, only material cost Russia absolutely needs to pay is fuel, and food. The remaining monetary cost are admin costs of the government clerks, army, and incentives for new troop recruitment.

The economy going to hell in general is not a tangible material cost.

As I said before many times, Russian army can be fed for much longer than when first Russian civilians will have to switch to grass for the diet.

I understand your line that when Russia will turn to eating grass, it's economy, and political bodies will already be damaged irrecoverably, as high earners, and specialists will leave, but it seem very likely they counted that in.

If they control food, and fuel, they can last for really long even with 3 digit inflation.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Videos depicting the liberation of Mariupol from the Nazi battalion Azov and the other Ukrainian forces


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528050528776757249

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## MeFishToo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Videos depicting the liberation of Mariupol from the Nazi battalion Azov and the other Ukrainian forces
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528050528776757249


You probably dont even believe this russian propaganda yourself.
I am curious. Honestly, why are you cheering this russian assault on Ukraine?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

MeFishToo said:


> You probably dont even believe this russian propaganda yourself.
> I am curious. Honestly, why are you cheering this russian assault on Ukraine?



Why are you cheering the Ukrainian Nazis? Are you a Nazi yourself? 

Do you have any connections to this group of people who have been orchestrating this mayhem since 2014? This is their war, designed to bring the Russian state to its knees. They're the same people who engineered the genocidal wars against Iraq, Syria, Libya, and other places. 






Unlike you and others, I refuse to be a zombie who trusts the shitstream media who hide the truth while they are mouthpieces for wars waged on other countries for profit and extending the lifespan of an empire whose expiry time is getting closer.

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## The SC

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528412457177341952




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528412460377690115


----------



## MeFishToo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Why are you cheering the Ukrainian Nazis? Are you a Nazi yourself?
> 
> Do you have any connections to this group of people who have been orchestrating this mayhem since 2014? This is their war, designed to bring the Russian state to its knees. They're the same people who engineered the genocidal wars against Iraq, Syria, Libya, and other places.
> 
> View attachment 846660
> 
> 
> Unlike you and others, I refuse to be a zombie who trusts the shitstream media who hide the truth while they are mouthpieces for wars waged on other countries for profit and extending the lifespan of an empire whose expiry time is getting closer.


So you basically hate and blame the USA for a war that Russia is waging on a neighboring country. 

Russia has been making up stories about Ukraine for 8 years, fueling an insurgency and leading a proxiwar, simply to justify its own desire to expand its range of influence. And now Ukraine is destroyed by Russias terrorbombing of infrastructure in most of the country because of russian imperialistic expansionism.

But you dont care. Its all the fault of the USA, according to you. The ukrainian suffering, in this zero-sum game in your mind, must some how be a loss for the US, so lets praise the fascist regime in Russia and quote anything from their propaganda apparatus.

You calling anyone a nazi is incomprehensible.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528413886134865920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528357033447239681

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528267610961371137


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528427183122923521
ROFL LMAOFF

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528365101551583234

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528409272081686528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528330684804304896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528331262112432129

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528383363341553664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528088052773560322

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528352027096625152

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528310317041819649

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528423549408579592

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## Viet

nangyale said:


> Ofcourse this is true.
> 
> The US is trillions of dollars in debt and on top they are running a budget deficit. Meaning they don't have the money to balance their books. Let alone pay Ukraine's war expenditure.


You are clueless. the US never runs out of money if they need money they just print the money. Same for most countries in the world. UK, Japan, Vietnam China, India, Pakistan, you name it. Even Russia. If Putin wants to pay his fighting soldiers in Ukraine he prints rubles.


----------



## ckf

Viet said:


> What “white” trash? What has a war with do with skin color? You begin to speak like a racist.


Look, if your are going to be that


Viet said:


> You are clueless. the US never runs out of money if they need money they just print the money. Same for most countries in the world. UK, Japan, Vietnam China, India, Pakistan, you name it. Even Russia. If Putin wants to pay his fighting soldiers in Ukraine he prints rubles.


Vietnamese dong is result of Printing press, if you don't know that, then you are clueless.


----------



## Gomig-21

Putin wearing a vest.

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## Paul2

As of now, Ukraine really needs not the talk about hundreds of units of Western weapons, but thousands to break the wave.

Even with lend lease signed, there are physical limits to how many weapons US can bring to Europe. And it will still be an absolutely massive logistic operation, with rail from Poland having to work non-stop.

The easiest way would be to just give US army equipment in Europe to Ukraine, and replace it later from CONUS.

Aviation is desperately needed, but well, pilots will have to be trained in an extreme hurry.

Bayraktars ran out of ammo, and Turkey has since stopped sending new missiles after shipping 2 reloads. They seem to have ran out of stock themselves, and now there is talk of getting Azerbaijan sending part of its ammo stocks. Bayraktar was the thing which held Russian artillery at bay in first weeks of the war, but can't now because no ammo.

Antiradiation weapons are a need of the day to let Ukrainian manned aircraft fly above MANPADs ceiling

TBMs, and MRBMs are required to go after big fat targets like HQs, and bridges


----------



## Nuclear Clown

Beast said:


> You think EU has the choice? You are deluding yourself. If they have a choice , the question wouldn't even ask plus they have a big partner called China.


The new generation of Siemens nuclear turbines has a 60% efficiency vs. 35% for the previous one... Guess why EDF takes profit from the early summer and has put half of the reactors of their 58 NPPs in maintenance...
It'd also be a wonderful opportunity to reintroduce our wonderful fast-breeder : thanks to reality, utopian ecologists will have serious issues mobilizing public opinion against something making the nuclear a renewable energy :
Superphénix​




Then, many in the EU have a moratorium on fracking, or are limiting the green lights to drill to very small numbers due to... ecologist pressure... EU has gigantic shale basins.




*The Common Agricultural Policy* has been dramatically been slowed down due to an overproduction that drove the goods at costs so law that agriculture was losing gigantic money
Such areas like the Beauce have been partly made fallows




And there are other things that are growing damn fast in our agricultural areas too (against opposed by hardcore ecologists  )




EU could perfectly not have looked at what was happening in Ukraine...
Just think about the 2008 crisis, it hit the world by storm, right? It was just a slow down in the EU...
Putin thought the EU was weak and would let him do, actually, the reaction is less noisy but in fact harsher than the US/UK one


nangyale said:


> Ofcourse this is true.
> 
> The US is trillions of dollars in debt and on top they are running a budget deficit. Meaning they don't have the money to balance their books. Let alone pay Ukraine's war expenditure.


ever heard about negative interest rates?
BTW, PRC has very very serious debts in the trillions of dollars too


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Videos depicting the liberation of Mariupol from the Nazi battalion Azov and the other Ukrainian forces
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528050528776757249


You meant naZis liberating Mariupol from the troops of Jew Zelinskiy I suppose... because... 












Meet with Wagner PMC :
*Russian neo-Nazis in the ranks of Wagner PMC
Death of a mercenary unveils the neo-Nazi roots of Wagner*
Wagner PMC leader Dmotry Utkin has funny tattoos...








Russian "Orthodox" church : 100% naZi, 0% Christian : calls for genocide, baptizes even nuclear weapons. The "patriarch" is an ex-KGB and Putler's buddy...








Rehearsal of May 9th, 2022 Parade St. Petersburg has a 4th Reich smell



*HEIL PUTLER!!! *


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> As of now, Ukraine really needs not the talk about hundreds of units of Western weapons, but thousands to break the wave.
> 
> Even with lend lease signed, there are physical limits to how many weapons US can bring to Europe. And it will still be an absolutely massive logistic operation, with rail from Poland having to work non-stop.
> 
> The easiest way would be to just give US army equipment in Europe to Ukraine, and replace it later from CONUS.
> 
> Aviation is desperately needed, but well, pilots will have to be trained in an extreme hurry.
> 
> Bayraktars ran out of ammo, and Turkey has since stopped sending new missiles after shipping 2 reloads. They seem to have ran out of stock themselves, and now there is talk of getting Azerbaijan sending part of its ammo stocks. Bayraktar was the thing which held Russian artillery at bay in first weeks of the war, but can't now because no ammo.
> 
> Antiradiation weapons are a need of the day to let Ukrainian manned aircraft fly above MANPADs ceiling
> 
> TBMs, and MRBMs are required to go after big fat targets like HQs, and bridges


Actually, the situation in the East is going Ukrainian way.

Right now the only offensive Russian are doing is toward Severodonetsk, which means the 2 axis(es) we have been talking about since like 2 weeks ago. Izyum axis and Donetsk axis. The problem is, they are having supply issue with Izyum and Donetsk front would take weeks if not months of reconstruction before they can be move on as a combat force, that is if they have enough men to do so after 80 days in Mariupol. At this current rate, the Russian offensive is stalled on this and the realistic goal (for now) for the Russian is to simply take Severodonetsk, but then they are running into the same problem they have been facing in Kyiv, stiff resistance and supply problem, also, for the Russian to be able to encircle Severodonetsk, you would need to cross the Don river. Which is harder to do than when they are in Kyiv. 

My appraisal of the situation is, either the Russia will fail in severodonetsk or they will take severodonetsk but will blunt their Eastern Advance, there are no way Russia can change the matrix unless they are able to raise more troop, and that is the problem here, conventional estimation suggested they have used up 50-70% reserve in this, they still need them to defend Russia, which mean they are going to have manpower issue in the coming months.

Another thing we can see from the recent Russian Assault is that they are small unit action, company size force break out of Popasna trying to link up with the force in Severodonetsk. That tell me two things.

1.) Russia is not willing or not able to risk majority manpower to do this. 
2.) Russia is having unit cohesion issue

Most of the last 2 weeks were Ukrainian trading space with time, that probably lead to Russian using smaller scale attack so not to lost a bulk of their combat power on this delay action. Which I can say Ukrainian is doing it job at least for now. 

But if you are talking about a general Ukrainian counter offensive, then yes, they will need thousand of heavies and an airforce.

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## Nuclear Clown

*Seems that the Orcs screwed another attempt to cross the Donetsk with pontons yesterday*
https://****/spravdi/8844seems that Telegram urls are rejected, Replace the **** by t*DOT*me


----------



## 925boy

Paul2 said:


> US been spending up to $2B per week on Afghanistan only, during most hot months.
> 
> It actually been spending more past the first years, when all direct firefights have ended.


but guess whats common in both war situations? - US WASTED ITS MONEY. stop being foolish, US govt actually knows Ukraine cant win, thats probably whoy the US defense secretary asked Shoigu for a ceasefire. why? Cuz Ukrainian military ground forces and azov nazis are turning into minced meat in eastern Ukraine. 

US currency was stable in the Afghanistan war, its not stable during this Ukraine war, times are different, US govt is also increasing domestic spending drastically now...more debt but for what exactly?? smh

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## Wood




----------



## 925boy

A.P. Richelieu said:


> NATO is a defensive alliance, haven’t you heard?
> It has been in the news for months that Russia has stopped production of tanks because they cannot get hold of western electronic components.


so how does the war Russia is prosecuting CONTINUE????? these are half stories you're telling...lol...

in your logic, Russia having supply chains issues = Russia cant produce any military equipment, in times of war.

LMAOOO..

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## The SC

Gomig-21 said:


> Putin wearing a vest.
> 
> View attachment 846709


Normal Bro.. mostly when you're at war!

He was a KGB officer anyway.. that's army..

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528318890392047616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528312968512950272
The WORLD today..






Imposing air interdiction..






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528111398655492096

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528146743640072193

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528133410908258305

*General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine:*

The enemy has increased the intensity of the use of aircraft to destroy the vital infrastructure of the settlements in the area of active hostilities.

▪️ In the Volyn and Polesia regions, Belarusian units intensified reconnaissance, in particular in the border areas of the Gomel region. There is still a threat of missile and air strikes against targets on the territory of Ukraine.

▪️ In the northern direction, the enemy continues to bomb settlements and infrastructure facilities in the Sumy and Chernihiv regions. And carried out bombings in the regions of Boyaro-Lizhache, Oletsia, Bunyaken, Herki, Grimayash and Maravi.

▪️ In the direction of Slobozansky, the enemy is fighting to preserve the occupied borders in the direction of Kharkiv and to prevent our troops from entering the state border.

▪️ A group of hostile forces is preparing to resume the offensive in the Slavic direction. And the occupiers carried out artillery bombardment on the areas of the settlements of Vernobyl, Debrevne and Duvinke.

▪️ In the Belgorod region, the enemy deployed operational and tactical Iskander-M missile launchers. In addition, the enemy is increasing the logistics system and repair bases.

▪️ In the direction of Donetsk, the occupiers are trying to break through the defense of our forces and reach the administrative borders of the Luhansk region

▪️ The enemy launched air raids on civilian infrastructure in the regions of Vropivka and Bakhmut.

▪️ The enemy did not conduct any active hostilities in the direction of Lyman. He shot at infrastructure installations in the area of \u200b\u200bthe settlements of Liman, Ozren, Zakitny, Dibrova and Serebryanka.

▪️ In the direction of Severodonetsk, using mortars and artillery, the enemy fired at the positions of the defense forces along the entire line of contact, and concentrated efforts in the direction of the settlements of Severodonetsk and Lysechansk. The enemy launched offensive and offensive operations in the Oskolonivka, Bordivka, Shedrichchev and Smolyaninov regions. The attack was repulsed, the enemy suffered losses and was forced to retreat to the ancient positions.

▪️ In the direction of Bakhmut and with the support of artillery, the enemy tried to improve the tactical situation in the areas of the settlements of Trebela, Lebov and Vasilivka, and the fighting continued.

▪️ In the direction of Avdiivka, the Russian occupiers incurred losses in the area of the Krasnohorivka settlement.

▪️ In the direction of Kurakhev, the enemy launched attacks in the Marinka region, but they were unsuccessful. He shot Novomykhailivka and Volodymyrivka. He carried out air strikes on the settlements of Mikkelsky and Katrinivka

▪️ In the directions of Novobavlovsk and Zaporizhzhgi, the enemy tried to gain a foothold on the occupied border, bombing the positions of the defense forces and civilian infrastructure.

▪️The enemy did not conduct any active hostilities in the South Bug area. He concentrates his main efforts on maintaining the occupied frontiers, carrying out reconnaissance and engineering activities for the sites. The defense forces' positions were bombarded with mortars and artillery. Increases the air defense system.

▪️ The situation has not changed in the direction of Besarabian.

▪️ Over the past 24 hours, 9 enemy attacks in Donetsk and Luhansk were repelled, 5 tanks, 4 artillery systems, 10 units of armored combat vehicles and 2 enemy vehicles were destroyed. One Orlan-10 aircraft was hit by air defense units.

▪️ Anti-aircraft missile units of the Air Force shot down two cruise missiles, and attack aircraft destroyed 12 units of enemy military equipment



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528409856729829377

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## The SC

*Why is the Russian uranium card more dangerous than cutting gas for Europe?*

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/euro...ear-power-plants-report.742910/#post-13790789
​Europe highly dependent on Russian uranium for nuclear power plants - report​
https://www.cleanenergywire.org/new...t-russian-uranium-nuclear-power-plants-report

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## Nuclear Clown

Viet said:


> You are clueless. the US never runs out of money if they need money they just print the money. Same for most countries in the world. UK, Japan, Vietnam China, India, Pakistan, you name it. Even Russia. If Putin wants to pay his fighting soldiers in Ukraine he prints rubles.


It doesn't works like that, BTW, with a $25 trillions GDP, they have some margin before getting bankrupt


Paul2 said:


> As of now, Ukraine really needs not the talk about hundreds of units of Western weapons, but thousands to break the wave.
> 
> Even with lend lease signed, there are physical limits to how many weapons US can bring to Europe. And it will still be an absolutely massive logistic operation, with rail from Poland having to work non-stop.
> The easiest way would be to just give US army equipment in Europe to Ukraine, and replace it later from CONUS.
> Aviation is desperately needed, but well, pilots will have to be trained in an extreme hurry.
> 
> Bayraktars ran out of ammo, and Turkey has since stopped sending new missiles after shipping 2 reloads. They seem to have ran out of stock themselves, and now there is talk of getting Azerbaijan sending part of its ammo stocks. Bayraktar was the thing which held Russian artillery at bay in first weeks of the war, but can't now because no ammo.
> Antiradiation weapons are a need of the day to let Ukrainian manned aircraft fly above MANPADs ceiling
> TBMs, and MRBMs are required to go after big fat targets like HQs, and bridges


You obviously have no issues what freaking weapons stockpile is NATO, especially the Yanks... The cumulated military budget is about 2 thirds+ of Russia's GDP !!!! 
It would be even bigger if I was in charge of mil budgets at EU level since I advocate a 2% minimum spending for all EU countries... It'd mean a boost of about $150bn

You're really underestimating the US logistics, there are more than a cargo airline company dreaming to have something like that... In fact, I think that EU should enter as a shareholder in some of these companies rather than developing an USAF-like cargo fleet : we don't have the same needs as they're around 800-1000 overseas bases and it's an extension we don't feel like doing, but, at the same time, every time a fast deployment was needed, it was a headache... Having companies like DHL becoming dual-use ones would be rather clever, they may even start using A400M, it would be great to start a mass production of An-225 unless Airbus is into correcting the terrible mistake of not making a cargo version of the A380... Now, you know, it'd take only 6-7 days to a giant CMA/CGM or Maersk container carrier to move 200,000-250,000t of freight from the USA to St.Nazaire, Marseille, Antwerpen or Rotterdam.

Antiradiation weapons are not necessary at all: France did the biggest of the SEAD over Libya while having fully stopped to use these since end 90's, hey, you're speaking about networked air defences, with these things, they cut the targetted radar while another takes the relay, at least, it's what they'll get if Russian/Soviets ARMs can be obtained, the latest AGM-88 is not integrated on MiG-29/Su-27/Su-24/Su-25, in such case, OK, there is also optical targetting.

Aviation wouldn't be an issue if some had more brain or history knowledge : all that would be needed would be applying the *Flying Tigers* principle. Was I in MacRon's seat, UkrAF would probably already long have 3 squadrons like that :




I'd come with a deal of my style with Zelen : order 8 squadrons, get 3 immediately, just prepare Ukrainian passports and ids for the pilots : Ukraine has a foreign legion, let's add an air branch (and secure the biggest Rafale export contract at the same time. Add full backing for immediate entry in the EU+NATO once the war is over... This is called a non-null sum game AKA win-win)... 

54 units means the same operational capability as 171 F-16s : in intensive use, these would allow 600 sorties per 24h (!!!) and even without the F4 upgrade, you can already come enough close to a S-400 to drop glide bombs on it, moreover, even Russian and Israeli weapons have been integrated on India's demand... Let's have these operate from roads in Romania, Slovakia, Poland, the Orcs won't even understand what is happening, something that maybe Putler may remember from the time he was 15 years old and Israel demolished the Soviet-equipped Arab armies in 6 days... Israel only had 60 Mirages.

I think Dassault may be able to fast track the integration of the BAT-120LG, time to put the racks for 18 of its parent-bomb, the BAP-100, out of the closet... This 35kg LGB would be rather nice for CAS. Biden surely can provide CBU-94/105 in numbers (each can demolish 40 tanks or vehicles) as well as huge numbers of JDAMs and Paveways. I pest on the cretin that ordered only 100 Apache ALCMs and the cretin in Germany who cancelled the order : with 100 units, there are only means to demolish 16 runways 400km deep into Mordor or Isengard and there are 37 in need to see their foundations ruined...

I'd love to see Zelen doing a nightly speech thanking a non disclosed country for the contract for 152 jet fighters (8 squadrons + 8 spare aircraft) and the immediate delivery of 54 units, and for having trained UkrAF pilots (LOL), "and, to celebrate the event, we just offered some fireworks to my great friend Vladolf Putler, I've just received a bulletin confirming that the Crimean bridge has just been blown, the Black Sea fleet has been transformed into a restaurant franchise for the hammerhead sharks, air defences as well as airbases and the HQs in Crimea have just been demolished, then declaring Ukraine a no fly zone and a no drive zone in occupied areas...
By no drive zone, I mean THIS : 




Mark my words, it wont take more than a single raid with CBU-97 or CBU-105 to send a clear message to the tankies : go back to Mordor or star the Nature Channel documentary _"The Russian Tank - an endangered species. Nature documentary narrated by Richard Attenborough"_


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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Actually, the situation in the East is going Ukrainian way.
> 
> Right now the only offensive Russian are doing is toward Severodonetsk, which means the 2 axis(es) we have been talking about since like 2 weeks ago. Izyum axis and Donetsk axis. The problem is, they are having supply issue with Izyum and Donetsk front would take weeks if not months of reconstruction before they can be move on as a combat force, that is if they have enough men to do so after 80 days in Mariupol. At this current rate, the Russian offensive is stalled on this and the realistic goal (for now) for the Russian is to simply take Severodonetsk, but then they are running into the same problem they have been facing in Kyiv, stiff resistance and supply problem, also, for the Russian to be able to encircle Severodonetsk, you would need to cross the Don river. Which is harder to do than when they are in Kyiv.
> 
> My appraisal of the situation is, either the Russia will fail in severodonetsk or they will take severodonetsk but will blunt their Eastern Advance, there are no way Russia can change the matrix unless they are able to raise more troop, and that is the problem here, conventional estimation suggested they have used up 50-70% reserve in this, they still need them to defend Russia, which mean they are going to have manpower issue in the coming months.
> 
> Another thing we can see from the recent Russian Assault is that they are small unit action, company size force break out of Popasna trying to link up with the force in Severodonetsk. That tell me two things.
> 
> 1.) Russia is not willing or not able to risk majority manpower to do this.
> 2.) Russia is having unit cohesion issue
> 
> Most of the last 2 weeks were Ukrainian trading space with time, that probably lead to Russian using smaller scale attack so not to lost a bulk of their combat power on this delay action. Which I can say Ukrainian is doing it job at least for now.
> 
> But if you are talking about a general Ukrainian counter offensive, then yes, they will need thousand of heavies and an airforce.



Yes, I am talking about the war as a whole.


Twist it, or turn it, they have 7 field armies on their soil, whom they now attrite at a rate of 0.5-1 battalion per week. Russians replenish at around at around the same rate for cannon fodder, and still have massive artillery advantage.

Russians cannot replenish things like pilots for tanks, and aviation, but for everything else, it's fine for them.

Even if they will be reduced to infantry, armoured cars, towed, and mortars, they can last for a really long time if they decide to dig in now. And "dig in now" is exactly what they are doing now.

The need for disruptive sideway pushes, and attack on enemy rear to prevent that is very obvious.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528489142987935745
🤣🤣🤣🤣




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528466224987795457

Minsk said that not a single factory in Belarus had stopped because of the sanctions.. let alone in Russia..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528466579347976195


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528451729720762375

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528471221800779782

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528464391502544898

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## Nuclear Clown

The SC said:


> Why is the Russian uranium card more dangerous than cutting gas for Europe?
> 
> Europe highly dependent on Russian uranium for nuclear power plants - report​
> https://www.cleanenergywire.org/new...t-russian-uranium-nuclear-power-plants-report


*Time for fastbreeders like Superphénix and make nuclear fuel a renewable energy*

Below are the 15 countries that exported the highest dollar value worth of natural uranium during 2020.

Kazakhstan: US$1.7 billion (56% of natural uranium exports)
Canada: $1.0 billion (33.6%)
United States: $214.3 million (7%)
Ukraine: $80.3 million (2.6%)
Netherlands: $13.5 million (0.4%)
South Africa: $8.5 million (0.3%)
Germany: $1.5 million (0.05%)
France: $777,000 (0.03%)
Sweden: $644,000 (0.02%)
Egypt: $265,000 (0.01%)
Switzerland: $121,000 (0.004%)
*Russia: $77,000 (0.003%)*
Malaysia: $23,000 (0.001%)
United Kingdom: $17,000 (0.001%)
India: $10,000 (0.0003%)
WHICH RUSSIAN URANIUM ???? FRANCE EXPORTS 10x MORE URANIUM THAN RUSSIA !!!
BTW, if ever it's 93.5% enriched uranium (military grade), you don't even get 2kg for $77,000
 Prosit for your 85 Rubles BS post !!!


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528450131627999234

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528448521346727937
😂😂New York or Niu-York is an urban settlement in Toretsk urban hromada of Bakhmut Raion of Donetsk Oblast Ukraine.. 😂




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528443792591835139

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528439616650502144


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Raffie said:


> You meant naZis liberating Mariupol from the troops of Jew Zelinskiy I suppose... because...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meet with Wagner PMC :
> *Russian neo-Nazis in the ranks of Wagner PMC
> Death of a mercenary unveils the neo-Nazi roots of Wagner*
> Wagner PMC leader Dmotry Utkin has funny tattoos...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian "Orthodox" church : 100% naZi, 0% Christian : calls for genocide, baptizes even nuclear weapons. The "patriarch" is an ex-KGB and Putler's buddy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rehearsal of May 9th, 2022 Parade St. Petersburg has a 4th Reich smell
> 
> 
> 
> *HEIL PUTLER!!! *



That is some shit at another level that I am not going to bother to bust it. It was the Russians who defeated NAZIs in World War II while they lost 25 million people. When you sacrifice that huge number of people in order to defeat NAZISM, then come and talk. Otherwise, whatever photo-shop you did over there is just rubbish.

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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> Yes, I am talking about the war as a whole.
> 
> 
> Twist it, or turn it, they have 7 field armies on their soil, whom they now attrite at a rate of 0.5-1 battalion per week. Russians replenish at around at around the same rate for cannon fodder, and still have massive artillery advantage.
> 
> Russians cannot replenish things like pilots for tanks, and aviation, but for everything else, it's fine for them.
> 
> Even if they will be reduced to infantry, armoured cars, towed, and mortars, they can last for a really long time if they decide to dig in now. And "dig in now" is exactly what they are doing now.
> 
> The need for disruptive sideway pushes, and attack on enemy rear to prevent that is very obvious.




Ukraine is currently training 100K new recruits. Expect a large counteroffensive by autumn.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528454884877549568I can't believe this tweet..as long as it is not official statements by the US or NATO.. All Is known is that Turkey is the second most powerful NATO country after the US.. militarily..that is..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528461162106478594

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528451058242035712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528447550805659649

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## Gomig-21

Raffie said:


> Below are the 15 countries that exported the highest dollar value worth of natural uranium during 2020.
> 
> Kazakhstan: US$1.7 billion (56% of natural uranium exports)
> Canada: $1.0 billion (33.6%)
> United States: $214.3 million (7%)
> Ukraine: $80.3 million (2.6%)
> Netherlands: $13.5 million (0.4%)
> South Africa: $8.5 million (0.3%)
> Germany: $1.5 million (0.05%)
> France: $777,000 (0.03%)
> Sweden: $644,000 (0.02%)
> Egypt: $265,000 (0.01%)
> Switzerland: $121,000 (0.004%)
> *Russia: $77,000 (0.003%)*
> Malaysia: $23,000 (0.001%)
> United Kingdom: $17,000 (0.001%)
> India: $10,000 (0.0003%)


It would be great to get the source for this.

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## The SC

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraine is currently training 100K new recruits. Expect a large counteroffensive by autumn.


And how many Russia is training.. 1 000 000!?

Not saying this for love of Russia or hatred of Ukraine.. but rationally Ukraine can not win this was.. it can resist but it can't win.. as simple as that.. it made a big mistake attaking its own Russian speaking citizens (most likely pushed by those who wanted a war in that region proposing some vague promises).. and now it will pay for it.. simple.. just try to swallow and digest that NATO does not wish a war with Russian.. can Ukraine wage it really!???



Gomig-21 said:


> It would be great to get the source for this.


That is natural Uranium.. it is possible.. but the the articles are talking about Russian Enriched Uranium..

The guy is apparently confused !

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## TruthSeeker

Institute for the Study of War


Russian forces made only minimal gains in eastern Ukraine on May 22. New reporting confirmed that Russian troops previously recaptured Rubizhne in northern Kharkiv Oblast, on May 19. Russian forces are likely committing additional reinforcements to hold




www.understandingwar.org





RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MAY 22​May 22, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF

*Karolina Hird, George Barros, and Mason Clark
May 22, 4:00 pm ET*​*Russian forces made only minimal gains in eastern Ukraine on May 22. *New reporting confirmed that Russian troops previously recaptured Rubizhne in northern Kharkiv Oblast, on May 19. Russian forces are likely committing additional reinforcements to hold their positions on the west bank of the Siverskyi Donets River in northern Kharkiv—rather than withdrawing across the river to use it as a defensive position—to prevent any further Ukrainian advances to the north or the east that could threaten Russian lines of communication to the Izyum axis.[1] Ukrainian sources additionally confirmed previous Russian-claimed advances around Popasna, and Russian forces likely seek to open a new line of advance north from Popasna to complete the encirclement of Severodonetsk while simultaneously driving west toward Bakhmut, though Russian forces are unlikely to be able to fully resource both lines of advance simultaneously.
*Key Takeaways*

*Ukrainian sources confirmed that Russian forces have secured local advances to the north and west of Popasna since at least May 20. Russian forces likely seek to push further west toward Bakhmut and north to support the encirclement of Severodonetsk but remain unlikely to achieve rapid advances.*
*Russian forces will likely attempt to hold positions west of the Siverskyi Donets River against Ukrainian attacks (rather than retreating across the river) to prevent further Ukrainian advances from threatening Russian lines of communication to Izyum.*
*Russian occupying forces continued filtration and deportation procedures in and around Mariupol.*
*Russian forces are likely preparing to resume offensives on the southern axis.*
*

*
*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.
ISW has updated its assessment of the four primary efforts Russian forces are engaged in at this time. We have stopped coverage of supporting effort 4, “Sumy and northeastern Ukraine,” because it is no longer an active effort:*

Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate main effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
Supporting effort 1—Mariupol; 
Supporting effort 2—Kharkiv City;
Supporting effort 3—Southern axis.
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued to prepare to resume offensive operations southeast of Izyum but did not make any confirmed advances on May 22.[2] The Ukrainian General Staff noted that Russian forces around Izyum are creating conditions to resume offensive actions toward Slovyansk.[3] Russian troops shelled frontline settlements to the southeast and southwest of Izyum, indicating continued Russian plans to move southward from Izyum toward the Donetsk Oblast administrative border.[4]



Russian forces continued ground assaults around Severodonetsk but did not make any confirmed advances in this area on May 22.[5] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian troops conducted unsuccessful offensive operations around Oskolonivka, Purdivka, Schedryshcheve, and Smolyianinove, all settlements to the east of Severodonetsk.[6] These offensive operations are likely meant to encircle Severodonetsk from the east, supporting previous advances towards the city from the north (via Rubizhne), west (via Bilohorivka), and south (via Popasna). Ukrainian sources additionally confirmed Russian claims that ISW was previously unable to verify that Russian troops have secured limited advances north and west of Popasna since at least May 20.[7] The Ukrainian General Staff confirmed that fighting is ongoing in the area of Toshkivka, Komyshuvakha, Trypillya, and Vasylivka—all settlements around Popasna where Russian sources claimed to have broken through Ukrainian defenses on May 21, though ISW cannot confirm if Russian forces have fully captured any of these locations.[8] Geolocated combat footage from Volodymirivka, just west of Popasna, further corroborates these claims.[9] Russian forces attacking out of Popasna in several directions likely seek to both complete the encirclement of Severodonetsk from the south and push westward in Donetsk Oblast toward Bakhmut via Trypillya, Lypove, and Vasylivka.[10]
Russian forces continued artillery attacks around Lyman on May 22 but did not make any confirmed ground advances in the area.[11] Militia forces of the Donetsk People’s Republic claimed that they took control of Novoselivka, a village in southern Donetsk Oblast.[12]



*Supporting Effort #1—Mariupol (Russian objective: Capture Mariupol and reduce the Ukrainian defenders)*
Russian forces continued clearing the territory of the Azovstal Steel Plant on May 22.[13] Occupation forces in Mariupol continued carrying out strict filtration and deportation procedures. The Territorial Defense Headquarters of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) claimed that 313 people, including 55 children, were deported from Mariupol to a filtration camp in Bezymmene.[14] Advisor to the Mayor of Mariupol Petro Andryushenko claimed that 70 people, including 12 children, were forcibly deported to Russia from Mariupol via the Nikolske filtration camp, although ISW cannot independently verify this claim.[15] Andryushchenko additionally stated that the occupation administration has tightened movement controls through the city of Mariupol, which is consistent with ISW’s earlier assessments that the information environment in Mariupol will become increasingly restricted in the coming weeks.[16]
*Supporting Effort #2—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces focused on maintaining their positions north of Kharkiv City and shelled Ukrainian positions on May 22.[17] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that elements of the Russian 6th Combined Arms Army and Baltic Fleet are fighting to prevent Ukrainian troops from reaching the international border.[18] The Internal Ministry of the Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) additionally stated that its personnel are operating in the towns of Kozacha Lopan and Rubizhne (the Rubizhne in Kharkiv Oblast, not Luhansk Oblast), confirming ISW’s previous assessment that Russian forces retook some territory on May 19 that was previously captured by Ukrainian forces.[19] Russian forces continued to inflict artillery damage on settlements around Kharkiv City.[20]



*Supporting Effort #3—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces likely continued preparations for renewed offensives on the southern axis on May 22. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian troops on this axis are focusing on building secondary lines of defense, strengthening air defense systems, conducting reconnaissance, and shelling Ukrainian positions, all of which indicates they are setting conditions for subsequent offensive actions.[21] Russian forces continued rocket and artillery strikes on Zaporizhia, Kherson, Dnipropetrovsk, and Mykolaiv Oblasts.[22] The Ukrainian Resistance Center additionally reported instances of Ukrainian partisan activity targeting collaboration officials and Russian artillery systems in Enerhodar and Melitopol, indicating continued and organized Ukrainian resistance in occupied areas of Ukraine.[23]



*Immediate items to watch*

Russian forces are likely reinforcing their grouping north of Kharkiv City to prevent further advances of the Ukrainian counteroffensive toward the Russian border. Russian forces may commit elements of the 1st Tank Army to northern Kharkiv in the near future. 
The Russians will continue efforts to encircle Severodonetsk and Lysychansk at least from the south, possibly by focusing on cutting off the last highway connecting Severodonetsk-Lysychansk with the rest of Ukraine.
Russian forces in Mariupol will likely shift their focus to occupational control of the city as the siege of Azovstal has concluded.
Russian forces are likely preparing for Ukrainian counteroffensives and settling in for protracted operations in southern Ukraine.

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## F-22Raptor

The SC said:


> and how many Russia is training.. 1 000 000!?
> 
> Not saying this for love of Russia or hatred of Ukraine,, but rationally Ukraine can not win this was.. it can resist but it can't win.. as simple as that.. it made a big mistake attaking its own Russian speaking citizens (most likely by those who wanted a war in that region).. and now it will pay for it.. simple.. just try to swallow and digest that NATO does not wish a war with Russian.. can Ukraine wage it really!???




Yes Ukraine can win the war. Russia is already near culmination in the East. The Izyum axis is practically done. Russia only has one offensive left at Severodonetsk. That’s it. Ukraine expected attritional warfare until the end of summer, and a large counteroffensive to follow. 

Ukraine is now funded until the end of the year. Russia will continue to suffer significant losses. They can’t sustain this. It’s just a matter of time until Ukraine moves on the offensive. Their basically in waiting mode outside Kherson.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528444359380717570

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## Wergeland

The SC said:


> and how many Russia is training.. 1 000 000!?
> 
> Not saying this for love of Russia or hatred of Ukraine.. but rationally Ukraine can not win this was.. it can resist but it can't win.. as simple as that.. it made a big mistake attaking its own Russian speaking citizens (most likely pushed by those who wanted a war in that region proposing some vague promises).. and now it will pay for it.. simple.. just try to swallow and digest that NATO does not wish a war with Russian.. can Ukraine wage it really!???
> 
> 
> That is natural Uranium.. it possible.. but the the articles are talking about Russian Enriched Uranium..
> 
> The guy is apparently confused !



Without western soldiers on the ground to assist them, Ukraine is likely to become a landlocked country by the end of this year, or even earlier.

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## F-22Raptor

Wergeland said:


> Without western soldiers on the ground to assist them, Ukraine is likely to become a landlocked country by the end of this year, or even earlier.




Russia is going to find it very difficult to control the coast if Ukraine receives deliveries of Harpoons and NSMs. 

Russia also has zero chance of controlling Odesa.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528483721854169088


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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Yes, I am talking about the war as a whole.
> 
> 
> Twist it, or turn it, they have 7 field armies on their soil, whom they now attrite at a rate of 0.5-1 battalion per week. Russians replenish at around at around the same rate for cannon fodder, and still have massive artillery advantage.
> 
> Russians cannot replenish things like pilots for tanks, and aviation, but for everything else, it's fine for them.
> 
> Even if they will be reduced to infantry, armoured cars, towed, and mortars, they can last for a really long time if they decide to dig in now. And "dig in now" is exactly what they are doing now.
> 
> The need for disruptive sideway pushes, and attack on enemy rear to prevent that is very obvious.


Well, it would be another deal if we are talking about a counter offensive. There are no way Ukraine can send in counter offensive in a wave that can take back the entire country as a whole. All counter offensive they can take right now is tactical, and local. The lost they had is just too big to recover. I would say this is not going to be doable if you have all the Western Armor and a fully functioning Air Force. The only advantage the Russian had in this war is they have taken small step, which mean it is easy to defend their gain.

The way I see it, there are two ways.

1.) Fight a conventional war with the Russian, that would cost them and us too much and this will drag on multi-years and we will see a WW1 style trench warfare like we had seen after 2014 in Donbas, just the front line is closer and longer. Very manpower and resource intensive, depends on Western Support, if the West is still supporting 6 months from now, this is doable.

2.) Stabilise the East then raise an insurgency in the occupied territories. An Afghan style solution for Russia. Eastern City are very sparse and very remote, with a few big city in between, that is a ideal place for insurgency warfare. I am Pretty sure the Ukraine has drilled on it, now, whether they will have local support is another issue, you cannot raise an insurgency without the occupied population support. But then this will drag on even longer, depends on how much Russia is willing to play (They having 2 million soldier does not mean they can mobilised them all) which means that is sheer comparison between Ukraine and Russia will, who want it more. 

There is a 3rd way tho, much like how WW1 ended. You keep the war go on and wait for either side to start opposing it. And breaking with Central Power. Be it Russia or Ukrainian power. This war have all the earmark of WW1, WW1 also promise a quick war, an unsuccessful land invasion which drag on to produce a trench warfare result in stalemate. But whether who broke first or even if they will break is unknown.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528489576897167365


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## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> Well, it would be another deal if we are talking about a counter offensive. There are no way Ukraine can send in counter offensive in a wave that can take back the entire country as a whole. All counter offensive they can take right now is tactical, and local. The lost they had is just too big to recover. I would say this is not going to be doable if you have all the Western Armor and a fully functioning Air Force. The only advantage the Russian had in this war is they have taken small step, which mean it is easy to defend their gain.
> 
> The way I see it, there are two ways.
> 
> 1.) Fight a conventional war with the Russian, that would cost them and us too much and this will drag on multi-years and we will see a WW1 style trench warfare like we had seen after 2014 in Donbas, just the front line is closer and longer. Very manpower and resource intensive, depends on Western Support, if the West is still supporting 6 months from now, this is doable.
> 
> 2.) Stabilise the East then raise an insurgency in the occupied territories. An Afghan style solution for Russia. Eastern City are very sparse and very remote, with a few big city in between, that is a ideal place for insurgency warfare. I am Pretty sure the Ukraine has drilled on it, now, whether they will have local support is another issue, you cannot raise an insurgency without the occupied population support. But then this will drag on even longer, depends on how much Russia is willing to play (They having 2 million soldier does not mean they can mobilised them all) which means that is sheer comparison between Ukraine and Russia will, who want it more.
> 
> There is a 3rd way tho, much like how WW1 ended. You keep the war go on and wait for either side to start opposing it. And breaking with Central Power. Be it Russia or Ukrainian power. This war have all the earmark of WW1, WW1 also promise a quick war, an unsuccessful land invasion which drag on to produce a trench warfare result in stalemate. But whether who broke first or even if they will break is unknown.




Biden has already stated the US can sustain Ukraine for “years.” Russia is going to find itself in a hole it will take many, many years to recover from. 

By the end of summer, Russia will likely have in excess of 100K+ casualties.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528528267610935296


F-22Raptor said:


> Biden has already stated the US can sustain Ukraine for “years.” Russia is going to find itself in a hole it will take many, many years to recover from.
> 
> By the end of summer, Russia will likely have in excess of 100K+ casualties.



If wishes were horses, beggars would ride them.....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528461162106478594

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528430678240526336


----------



## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> Biden has already stated the US can sustain Ukraine for “years.” Russia is going to find itself in a hole it will take many, many years to recover from.
> 
> By the end of summer, Russia will likely have in excess of 100K+ casualties.


A very recent announcement from Russia intrigue me. They started taking volunteer to fight for Russia from 18-40.

Which tell me two things.

1.) Putin don't want to ask for a general mobilisation for whatever reason, he don't need to call on volunteer, he have 2 millions reserve troop, he can just mobilise them

2.) Russia is probably very close to breaking in manpower. People may have said Ukraine have the same announcement at the beginning of war, and it is 18-60. But Ukraine is different. They ARE desperate for manpower because they are facing Russia, a stronger and bigger enemy. Russia on the other hand, is the attacker, it is really desperate if they wanted to ask for volunteer to fight in another country....

It suggested to me, Russia is running out of man to keep the war going. Or they dont spare the men they had for whatever reason, I mean, asking for volunteer on an attacking war means you are going to be a cannon fodder.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528363197987704835


----------



## F-22Raptor

Kashmiri Rebel said:


> I don't know in which world you live. People are fed up with the old wood (Biden). Every time you go to fill gas people as saying **** biden. The idiot can send 40$ billion to Ukraine but cannot provide relief to common people by cutting taxes on gas. Democrats are digging their grave. .
> 
> Mark my words, Russia and Putin will win in Ukraine although the cost would be high but they will gain a huge amount of land and resources while democrats will be buried in midterm and 2024.




Russia has already lost strategically, and it’s offensive capability in Ukraine is almost at an end. Ukraine is going to roll back Russian gains. It already has in Kyiv and Kharkiv.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528440540198588418

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528451058242035712
LEVI _*🌍*_

*The main events of May 22
*
Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

_*💥*_During the day, h*igh-precision air-based missiles* have hit *3* command posts, *13* areas of Ukrainian manpower and military equipment concentration, as well as *4* ammunition depots

_*✈️💥*_*Operational-tactical and army aviation *have hit *3* command posts, *26* areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration, as well as *1 *ammunition depot

_*▫️*_The attacks have resulted in the elimination of more than *210* nationalists and up to *38* armoured and motor vehicles.

_*💥*_*Missile troops and artillery* have hit *583* areas of enemy's manpower and military equipment concentration, *41* command posts, *76* artillery and mortar units at firing positions*

Mariupol

▫️*Public transportation started working again in Mariupol*

▫️Four* out of *five* hospitals have started working, three fuel stations have opened - fuel is sold without restrictions*

Kids in charge of world politics

▫️*The process of Ukraine's possible accession to the European Union could take 15 or 20 years, a French official said.
*
▫️*Norway makes huge profits from oil and gas exports and should share their income, said Prime Minister of Poland Mateusz Morawiecki

_*▫️*_Borrell says *EU military stocks are depleted *due to aid to Ukraine*

Turkey vs NATO
*
_*▫️*_ The Finnish Foreign Minister said he was "optimistic" about settling disagreements with Turkey on the issue of NATO membership, a decision, according to him, could take "several weeks."

„Finland can give Turkey assurances that links with the PKK will be monitored more closely.“

*Russia’s* *foreign policy**

▫️*Russia will soon put on combat duty about *50* new intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) "Sarmat"*

Zelensky from the mental health clinic 

▫️*Agreement was reached with the leadership of Poland to simplify border crossing between countries

_*▫️*_Ukraine withdrew from the Agreement on perpetuating the memory of the courage and heroism of the people of the Commonwealth of Independent States in the Great Patriotic War
*
International news* 

_*▫️*_A colonel in Iran's IRGC, Hassan Sayad Khodayari has been assassinated in Tehran

_*▫️*_Energy Minister Prince Abdulaziz bin Salman told the Financial Times that Saudi Arabia hopes to reach an agreement with Opec + that includes Russia

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## The SC

In Novosilovka today. The special forces are cleaning up the settlement
+
The Russian army clears the Azovstal mines.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528447888954630145


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528468544685580291

British intelligence *MI6* claimed to have evidence that the Kremlin decided to hold public trials of members of the Azov Regiment who would be sentenced to life imprisonment. This is expected to cause resentment in the Ukrainian society and the military.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528466598058672130

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528310317041819649


----------



## F-22Raptor

Kashmiri Rebel said:


> I donot know what are you smoking. Ukraine is loosing Donbass and surrounding region. Russia already have a 500 mile land bridge to Crimea. The war will end soon (1 month) but only when Russia wants.



Ukraine has regained more territory since the start of the Donbass fight than Russia has gained. You do realize that right?


----------



## SalarHaqq

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> That is some shit at another level that I am not going to bother to bust it. It was the Russians who defeated NAZIs in World War II while they lost 25 million people. When you sacrifice that huge number of people in order to defeat NAZISM, then come and talk. Otherwise, whatever photo-shop you did over there is just rubbish.





The SC said:


> That is natural Uranium.. it is possible.. but the the articles are talking about Russian Enriched Uranium..
> 
> The guy is apparently confused !



In fact, I've no doubt that the user is zionist. If my assumption is correct, and I'm sure it is, the user spammed another website for years prior to surfacing here, and interestingly, was praising Russia and President Putin then. Different conflict, different mission parameters.

At that time, was claiming to be a "leftist" but you ought to have seen the non-stop venom they were spewing against Palestinians, Muslims and Islam. In fact, you shall be presented with a couple of samples. Which I'm going to share when I get the time to expose the user in due form.

Nothing changed in their posting style, too many commonalities which I will list in detail. It's overly obvious, really. Anyway, you shall have the opportunity to judge by yourselves.

P.S.: Notice the login. Not a French name.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528254434953814017






World Bank to provide over $30B for global food crisis response​
The World Bank has announced plans to allocate more than $30 billion on projects to respond to challenges that arose in the field of global food security as Russia unleashed a full-scale invasion of Ukraine...

This financing will include efforts to encourage food and fertilizer production, enhance food systems, facilitate greater trade, and support vulnerable households and producers..


https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ec...over-30b-for-global-food-crisis-response.html


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

TruthSeeker said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Institute for the Study of War
> 
> 
> Russian forces made only minimal gains in eastern Ukraine on May 22. New reporting confirmed that Russian troops previously recaptured Rubizhne in northern Kharkiv Oblast, on May 19. Russian forces are likely committing additional reinforcements to hold
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.understandingwar.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MAY 22​May 22, 2022 - Press ISW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Download the PDF
> 
> *Karolina Hird, George Barros, and Mason Clark
> May 22, 4:00 pm ET*​*Russian forces made only minimal gains in eastern Ukraine on May 22. *New reporting confirmed that Russian troops previously recaptured Rubizhne in northern Kharkiv Oblast, on May 19. Russian forces are likely committing additional reinforcements to hold their positions on the west bank of the Siverskyi Donets River in northern Kharkiv—rather than withdrawing across the river to use it as a defensive position—to prevent any further Ukrainian advances to the north or the east that could threaten Russian lines of communication to the Izyum axis.[1] Ukrainian sources additionally confirmed previous Russian-claimed advances around Popasna, and Russian forces likely seek to open a new line of advance north from Popasna to complete the encirclement of Severodonetsk while simultaneously driving west toward Bakhmut, though Russian forces are unlikely to be able to fully resource both lines of advance simultaneously.
> *Key Takeaways*
> 
> *Ukrainian sources confirmed that Russian forces have secured local advances to the north and west of Popasna since at least May 20. Russian forces likely seek to push further west toward Bakhmut and north to support the encirclement of Severodonetsk but remain unlikely to achieve rapid advances.*
> *Russian forces will likely attempt to hold positions west of the Siverskyi Donets River against Ukrainian attacks (rather than retreating across the river) to prevent further Ukrainian advances from threatening Russian lines of communication to Izyum.*
> *Russian occupying forces continued filtration and deportation procedures in and around Mariupol.*
> *Russian forces are likely preparing to resume offensives on the southern axis.*
> *
> 
> *
> *We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.
> ISW has updated its assessment of the four primary efforts Russian forces are engaged in at this time. We have stopped coverage of supporting effort 4, “Sumy and northeastern Ukraine,” because it is no longer an active effort:*
> 
> Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
> Subordinate main effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
> Supporting effort 1—Mariupol;
> Supporting effort 2—Kharkiv City;
> Supporting effort 3—Southern axis.
> *Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
> Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
> Russian forces continued to prepare to resume offensive operations southeast of Izyum but did not make any confirmed advances on May 22.[2] The Ukrainian General Staff noted that Russian forces around Izyum are creating conditions to resume offensive actions toward Slovyansk.[3] Russian troops shelled frontline settlements to the southeast and southwest of Izyum, indicating continued Russian plans to move southward from Izyum toward the Donetsk Oblast administrative border.[4]
> 
> 
> 
> Russian forces continued ground assaults around Severodonetsk but did not make any confirmed advances in this area on May 22.[5] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian troops conducted unsuccessful offensive operations around Oskolonivka, Purdivka, Schedryshcheve, and Smolyianinove, all settlements to the east of Severodonetsk.[6] These offensive operations are likely meant to encircle Severodonetsk from the east, supporting previous advances towards the city from the north (via Rubizhne), west (via Bilohorivka), and south (via Popasna). Ukrainian sources additionally confirmed Russian claims that ISW was previously unable to verify that Russian troops have secured limited advances north and west of Popasna since at least May 20.[7] The Ukrainian General Staff confirmed that fighting is ongoing in the area of Toshkivka, Komyshuvakha, Trypillya, and Vasylivka—all settlements around Popasna where Russian sources claimed to have broken through Ukrainian defenses on May 21, though ISW cannot confirm if Russian forces have fully captured any of these locations.[8] Geolocated combat footage from Volodymirivka, just west of Popasna, further corroborates these claims.[9] Russian forces attacking out of Popasna in several directions likely seek to both complete the encirclement of Severodonetsk from the south and push westward in Donetsk Oblast toward Bakhmut via Trypillya, Lypove, and Vasylivka.[10]
> Russian forces continued artillery attacks around Lyman on May 22 but did not make any confirmed ground advances in the area.[11] Militia forces of the Donetsk People’s Republic claimed that they took control of Novoselivka, a village in southern Donetsk Oblast.[12]
> 
> 
> 
> *Supporting Effort #1—Mariupol (Russian objective: Capture Mariupol and reduce the Ukrainian defenders)*
> Russian forces continued clearing the territory of the Azovstal Steel Plant on May 22.[13] Occupation forces in Mariupol continued carrying out strict filtration and deportation procedures. The Territorial Defense Headquarters of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) claimed that 313 people, including 55 children, were deported from Mariupol to a filtration camp in Bezymmene.[14] Advisor to the Mayor of Mariupol Petro Andryushenko claimed that 70 people, including 12 children, were forcibly deported to Russia from Mariupol via the Nikolske filtration camp, although ISW cannot independently verify this claim.[15] Andryushchenko additionally stated that the occupation administration has tightened movement controls through the city of Mariupol, which is consistent with ISW’s earlier assessments that the information environment in Mariupol will become increasingly restricted in the coming weeks.[16]
> *Supporting Effort #2—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
> Russian forces focused on maintaining their positions north of Kharkiv City and shelled Ukrainian positions on May 22.[17] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that elements of the Russian 6th Combined Arms Army and Baltic Fleet are fighting to prevent Ukrainian troops from reaching the international border.[18] The Internal Ministry of the Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) additionally stated that its personnel are operating in the towns of Kozacha Lopan and Rubizhne (the Rubizhne in Kharkiv Oblast, not Luhansk Oblast), confirming ISW’s previous assessment that Russian forces retook some territory on May 19 that was previously captured by Ukrainian forces.[19] Russian forces continued to inflict artillery damage on settlements around Kharkiv City.[20]
> 
> 
> 
> *Supporting Effort #3—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
> Russian forces likely continued preparations for renewed offensives on the southern axis on May 22. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian troops on this axis are focusing on building secondary lines of defense, strengthening air defense systems, conducting reconnaissance, and shelling Ukrainian positions, all of which indicates they are setting conditions for subsequent offensive actions.[21] Russian forces continued rocket and artillery strikes on Zaporizhia, Kherson, Dnipropetrovsk, and Mykolaiv Oblasts.[22] The Ukrainian Resistance Center additionally reported instances of Ukrainian partisan activity targeting collaboration officials and Russian artillery systems in Enerhodar and Melitopol, indicating continued and organized Ukrainian resistance in occupied areas of Ukraine.[23]
> 
> 
> 
> *Immediate items to watch*
> 
> Russian forces are likely reinforcing their grouping north of Kharkiv City to prevent further advances of the Ukrainian counteroffensive toward the Russian border. Russian forces may commit elements of the 1st Tank Army to northern Kharkiv in the near future.
> The Russians will continue efforts to encircle Severodonetsk and Lysychansk at least from the south, possibly by focusing on cutting off the last highway connecting Severodonetsk-Lysychansk with the rest of Ukraine.
> Russian forces in Mariupol will likely shift their focus to occupational control of the city as the siege of Azovstal has concluded.
> Russian forces are likely preparing for Ukrainian counteroffensives and settling in for protracted operations in southern Ukraine.









That is all you need to know about the ISW.





SalarHaqq said:


> User is a zionist troll. Spammed another website for years prior to surfacing here, and interestingly, was praising Russia and President Putin then. Different conflict, different mission parameters. At that time, was claiming to be a "leftist" but you ought to have seen the non-stop venom they were spewing against Palestinians, Muslims and Islam. In fact, you shall get to see a couple of samples. Which I'm going to share when I get the time to expose this account. Nothing changed in their posting style. It's too obvious, really. Anyway, you shall have the opportunity to judge by yourselves.
> 
> P.S.: Notice the login. Not a French name.




I agree with you 100% bro. Hasbara shills are very active in all forums, spamming them with their propaganda.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528521325110755332

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528452085850722305

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528449548607266821


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528311831789551622

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528493891699318785

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528486611419275265


----------



## sammuel

SalarHaqq said:


> I'm not the one with comprehension issues
> 
> .





A.P. Richelieu said:


> You ”rules” suddenly drop the ”exploding” prefix, so your ”rules” do not reflect the link.
> Smoke Grenades are never Indendiary Weapons.
> As you have comprehension problems, you are on ignore.




Long overdue. 

This person has a habit of hiding his inability to answer your points , behind walls of words , that no one here has the patience to read.

~


----------



## Viet

Raffie said:


> It doesn't works like that, BTW, with a $25 trillions GDP, they have some margin before getting bankrupt
> 
> You obviously have no issues what freaking weapons stockpile is NATO, especially the Yanks... The cumulated military budget is about 2 thirds+ of Russia's GDP !!!!
> It would be even bigger if I was in charge of mil budgets at EU level since I advocate a 2% minimum spending for all EU countries... It'd mean a boost of about $150bn
> 
> You're really underestimating the US logistics, there are more than a cargo airline company dreaming to have something like that... In fact, I think that EU should enter as a shareholder in some of these companies rather than developing an USAF-like cargo fleet : we don't have the same needs as they're around 800-1000 overseas bases and it's an extension we don't feel like doing, but, at the same time, every time a fast deployment was needed, it was a headache... Having companies like DHL becoming dual-use ones would be rather clever, they may even start using A400M, it would be great to start a mass production of An-225 unless Airbus is into correcting the terrible mistake of not making a cargo version of the A380... Now, you know, it'd take only 6-7 days to a giant CMA/CGM or Maersk container carrier to move 200,000-250,000t of freight from the USA to St.Nazaire, Marseille, Antwerpen or Rotterdam.
> 
> Antiradiation weapons are not necessary at all: France did the biggest of the SEAD over Libya while having fully stopped to use these since end 90's, hey, you're speaking about networked air defences, with these things, they cut the targetted radar while another takes the relay, at least, it's what they'll get if Russian/Soviets ARMs can be obtained, the latest AGM-88 is not integrated on MiG-29/Su-27/Su-24/Su-25, in such case, OK, there is also optical targetting.
> 
> Aviation wouldn't be an issue if some had more brain or history knowledge : all that would be needed would be applying the *Flying Tigers* principle. Was I in MacRon's seat, UkrAF would probably already long have 3 squadrons like that :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd come with a deal of my style with Zelen : order 8 squadrons, get 3 immediately, just prepare Ukrainian passports and ids for the pilots : Ukraine has a foreign legion, let's add an air branch (and secure the biggest Rafale export contract at the same time. Add full backing for immediate entry in the EU+NATO once the war is over... This is called a non-null sum game AKA win-win)...
> 
> 54 units means the same operational capability as 171 F-16s : in intensive use, these would allow 600 sorties per 24h (!!!) and even without the F4 upgrade, you can already come enough close to a S-400 to drop glide bombs on it, moreover, even Russian and Israeli weapons have been integrated on India's demand... Let's have these operate from roads in Romania, Slovakia, Poland, the Orcs won't even understand what is happening, something that maybe Putler may remember from the time he was 15 years old and Israel demolished the Soviet-equipped Arab armies in 6 days... Israel only had 60 Mirages.
> 
> I think Dassault may be able to fast track the integration of the BAT-120LG, time to put the racks for 18 of its parent-bomb, the BAP-100, out of the closet... This 35kg LGB would be rather nice for CAS. Biden surely can provide CBU-94/105 in numbers (each can demolish 40 tanks or vehicles) as well as huge numbers of JDAMs and Paveways. I pest on the cretin that ordered only 100 Apache ALCMs and the cretin in Germany who cancelled the order : with 100 units, there are only means to demolish 16 runways 400km deep into Mordor or Isengard and there are 37 in need to see their foundations ruined...
> 
> I'd love to see Zelen doing a nightly speech thanking a non disclosed country for the contract for 152 jet fighters (8 squadrons + 8 spare aircraft) and the immediate delivery of 54 units, and for having trained UkrAF pilots (LOL), "and, to celebrate the event, we just offered some fireworks to my great friend Vladolf Putler, I've just received a bulletin confirming that the Crimean bridge has just been blown, the Black Sea fleet has been transformed into a restaurant franchise for the hammerhead sharks, air defences as well as airbases and the HQs in Crimea have just been demolished, then declaring Ukraine a no fly zone and a no drive zone in occupied areas...
> By no drive zone, I mean THIS :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark my words, it wont take more than a single raid with CBU-97 or CBU-105 to send a clear message to the tankies : go back to Mordor or star the Nature Channel documentary _"The Russian Tank - an endangered species. Nature documentary narrated by Richard Attenborough"_





Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528383363341553664
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528088052773560322
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528352027096625152


After 3 months the world’s second most powerful army liberated a steelworks. Not bad. Hunting nazi is over. Now Putin’s hordes can hunt shoes. washing machines.

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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527616437812174851


----------



## Gomig-21



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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528305317867659264





.



925boy said:


> then why has this same US lost every war since you and i were born? just fact checkingbro.




Dont exaggerate like that!  

USA won the wars USA fought against Grenada , and Panama, and Nicaragua! 

Since WW2

But a caveat. Since I do not know when you both borned, using your time frame, you might be correct

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## DF41

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> This is nothing but a spamming on the site with that gibberish from ISW. But if you want to understand more about the people who is behind that site, here they are:
> 
> View attachment 845966
> 
> 
> 
> *Judea had declared a war on Germany in 1933
> Judea has declared a war on Russia in 2014*
> 
> We're indeed seeing what Judea is cooking for Europe, West, and the rest of the world.
> 
> The entire West is a Judea plantation!


 🤔

I wonder if I be given negative marking for signalling I 😍 what you revealed

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## Nuclear Clown

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> That is some shit at another level that I am not going to bother to bust it. It was the Russians who defeated NAZIs in World War II while they lost 25 million people. When you sacrifice that huge number of people in order to defeat NAZISM, then come and talk. Otherwise, whatever photo-shop you did over there is just rubbish.


In case you wouldn't knew, the Soviet Union wasn't only Russian, 8 millions of the dead were Ukrainians, then,* the SOVIET UNION WAS ALLY TO THE NAZI REGIME AND THEY STARTED WW2 TOGETHER BY INVADING POLAND!!! *





Moreover, Stalin killed more Soviets/Russians than Hitler, he had insomnia and instead of counting sheep, he used to... sign about 2000-2500 death warrants every night... 
Then, you seem to forget that the Soviets weren't fighting alone, you should inform yourself about the allies in Africa and the Mid-East. The Eastern front collapsed only when the Allies had demolished the Afrkakorps and beach landed in Italy.
Actually, without the US LEND-LEASE ACT WHICH MASSIVELY SUPPLIED WEAPONS TO THE SOVIET UNION, the Soviets would have collapsed, but, to be frank, the difference between living under Stalin or Hitler was insignificant : they had no more respect for human life than the sociopathic mobster that leads ruSSia today. 
The Soviet chiefs of staff were absolutely incompetent for the good reason that Stalin had "purged" the army and placed yes-men in ALL the key-posts and the gigantic number of casualties came from the fact the people of the Soviet Union was pushed forward by political komissars armed with a Tokarev while there was a single Mosin for a platoon of ten, then when one was killed, the next one took the riffle, and if they didn't advanced, the komissar shot them in the back.
Then, maybe should you search the ethicities in the Red Army, you might end finding that the Russians were much less sacrificed than other ethnicities... 

So is it today : after Putin slaughtered 250,000 Chechens, the quarter of the population, now he sends the next generation as canon fodder. 
Then, read well the RIA/Novosti article I posted : THIS IS ABSOLUTELY NAZI IDEOLOGY... In Ukraine, the far right only scored less than 2% at the last election, while in ruSSia, the United Russia party with its fascist authoritarian ideology that sounds like a hardcore version of Mein Kampf has the majority at the Duma! 

"Fascism is capitalism pushed to the extreme" said the inventor of fascism, Benito Mussolini... Putin's personal wealth is estimated around $200 billions +...

Oh, BTW, far right French leader Marine Le Pen found no EU bank to accept a loan to her neo-fascist party to fund electoral campaigns... She called Putin, then a Russian state-owned bank accepted to loan money... 
Putin backs fascists and neo-Nazis in the EU... 




But one thing for sure, Putin is not as clever as his ex-boss Yuri Andropov : Andropov Palestinian lies are still ongoing 58 year after he invented this artificial people and the lies are just starting collapsing under their own weight... 
Nobody but absolute idiots believes Ukraine is led by naZis
but one thing is clear : it's not Ukraine that has attacked Russia, Russia is the aggressor which is destroying Ukrainian cities and mass murdering Ukrainian population...

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Please watch this video fully to understand the crimes that Azov and nationalists committed against the people of Mariupol.

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## Viet

For those that cheer russia war of aggression.
Russia blockading Ukraine grains export will cause hunger and starvation in poor countries around the world.
Rich countries can burden the higher costs in fuels and foods.
Putin Intentionally causes famine as a war strategy. 

Millions’ at risk of death as Ukraine war hits food supplies, Egypt warns






Subscribe to read | Financial Times


News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




www.ft.com


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal



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## DF41

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> De-Nazification is in full speed! 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527992026603700225




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527728422935572481

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## Nuclear Clown

DF41 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528305317867659264
> 
> 
> 
> .
> Dont exaggerate like that!
> USA won the wars USA fought against Grenada , and Panama, and Nicaragua!
> Since WW2
> But a caveat. Since I do not know when you both borned, using your time frame, you might be correct


Meanwhile, Chinese communist party (CCP) won the war against the freedom of the people of China (I won't show PLA tanks rolling over Chinese peaceful protestors... This is how the Chinese commies do to maintain their regime nobody voted for, they also put Muslims in concentration camps and kill the Falugong members to sell their organs...




They also won their war against the 14th Dalaï Lama




*FREE OCCUPIED TIBET
DEMOCRACY FOR CHINA*


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

China Trumpets Sham Russian Claims About War Coverage


Russia orchestrated a U.N. meeting for Kremlin-friendly “journalists” to claim censorship, then China bought in.




www.polygraph.info




China Trumpets Sham Russian Claims About War Coverage​
On May 17, Global Information, a media account managed by China’s state-run China National Radio, posted a video on the Twitter-like social media platform Weibo.

“Independent Journalists from Many Countries Fired for Truthfully Covering the Conflict Between Russia and Ukraine,” the post proclaimed. As of this writing, Weibo posts circulating the video have accumulated more than 110 million views.

The video purportedly features independent journalists who claim they were unable to “speak the truth” about Russia’s war against Ukraine. But the so-called truths are actually debunked Kremlin falsehoods that attempt to blame Ukraine for carnage caused by Russian forces.

The post follows a pattern. Chinese state media reliably spread Russian war propaganda.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1515515407385661440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513477852951289858
The Weibo post says:

_“In a recent United Nations meeting, independent journalists from France, Italy, the Netherlands and other countries criticized Western media for false propaganda in their coverage of the Russia-Ukraine conflict.

“However, they were fired from their jobs and even banned from entering their own countries for insisting on telling the truth they had observed about the Ukraine issue.”_

That is misleading.

In fact, several of the “independent journalists” in the video have a track record of regurgitating Kremlin-speak. There is no evidence that any of them have been fired or exiled, though some of their work has been disputed and flagged as disinformation.






The U.N. meeting mentioned was what’s called an “Arria-formula meeting.” These are informal sessions that any Security Council member may schedule and orchestrate.

Russia called the May 6 session to discuss alleged war crimes by Ukrainian forces. This was after a crush of reports alleging war crimes by Russian troops who’d occupied suburbs outside Kyiv, leaving behind mass graves and civilians who appeared to have been summarily executed.

Russia’s Permanent Representative to the U.N. Vassily Nebenzia opened the session.

“Today, we will try to speak as little as possible by ourselves and to share with you accounts of the residents of Eastern and Southern Ukraine and to give the floor to foreign journalists who have been working in these areas,” Nebenzia said.

Out spilled some of the false claims Russia has used to justify its invasion and to deny war crimes and indiscriminate strikes on civilian targets, including businesses, theaters and hospitals.

Anne-Laure Bonnel, a French filmmaker described by Foreign Policy magazine as “a noted propagandist on behalf of Russia,” said Western economic sanctions against Russia have fanned divisions and hatred. She accused Ukrainian troops of killing Russian-speaking Ukrainians in eastern Ukraine’s Donbas region for the past eight years.

Bonnel made the same claim in her 2016 documentary “Donbass,” which Facebook and YouTube have repeatedly flagged as a possible source of misinformation. France’s Le Figaro newspaper removed an article Bonnel wrote based on the film, China’s state-run Xinhua News Agency and the Latin American Telesur agency reported.

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## DF41

Wergeland said:


> USA still has technological edge in IT and Millitary industry though, for now. But for how long?














China's DF-17 Hypersonic Weapon: A Killer the U.S. Military Can't Match


Beijing’s first hypersonic weapons system, the DF-17 stands as one of the most militarily consequential additions to the People’s Liberation Army’s missile roster in recent years. The DF-17 was first unveiled in 2013. It entered service in 2019—on the heels of at least nine tests—after making...




www.19fortyfive.com

















‘Sinking A US Aircraft Carrier’ – Beijing Conducts Massive Military Drills In South China Sea To Ward-Off US Navy


‘Sinking A US Aircraft Carrier’ – Beijing Conducts Massive Military Drills In South China Sea To Ward-Off US Navy ByEurAsian Times Desk April 2, 2022 Chinese state television aired footage on March 30, of day-and-night drills by the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) along the coasts of the East...



defence.pk

















China’s DF-21D, DF-26 Anti-Ship Ballistic Missiles Could Trigger Mayhem On US Aircraft Carriers – CRS Report


China’s DF-21D, DF-26 Anti-Ship Ballistic Missiles Could Trigger Mayhem On US Aircraft Carriers – CRS Report ByAshish Dangwal - March 23, 2022 Top US commanders believe China’s stockpile of anti-ship ballistic missiles (ASBMs) can strike moving targets, as per a March 8 Congressional Research...



defence.pk












More cold sweat for USA , and anyone else who want to tango with China


More cold sweat for USA , and anyone else who want to tango with China New marine species: China’s world-first drone-carrying ship capable of anything to give cold sweat to would be tangoists And more likely than not, China got even more goodies that China being modest, will not even hint...



defence.pk









cold sweat at the NSA





Much more. And I guess even more China not revealing to the world as yet.


And while USA trying to compete with Russia for laser power, China going to rip matter from empty space with laser.

https://www.space.com/39536-laser-china-rip-vacuum-antimatter.html 
Physicists are getting close to building lasers powerful enough to rip matter out of a vacuum.


Remember China invented gunpowder primarily to make amusing fireworks to entertain themselves.

Same thing with laser, and more


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## Viet

The partisans have killed several high ranking military officials of Russian army at Mariupol.
As reaction Russian army announces increased scan search of private cars.









WELT live +++ Guerillakämpfer töten ranghohe russische Offiziere +++ WELT-Sondersendung - Video - WELT


Ukrainische Guerillakämpfer sollen in Melitopol mehrere ranghohe russische Offiziere getötet haben. Die russische Armee habe darauf Kontrollen von Privatautos verschärft, teilte die Verwaltung der südukrainischen Stadt mit. Verfolgen Sie alle Entwicklungen hier und im TV.




www.welt.de

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## Nuclear Clown

DF41 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527728422935572481


The cool thing with Ukrainian army, it's that they will show you the military id papers if the Russian soldiers with naZi tattoos! Can Hassan show us the papers of the guy he pointed? Most of those in Wagner PMC are covered with Nazi tattoos




Meet with Dmitry Utkin, ex-Spetsznaz, co-founder of the Wagner Private Miltary Company and friend of Vladimir Putin:




note that Prighozin is also the founder of the infamous "Troll-Factory" in St.Petersbourg. He's the one paying SC and Hassan, they get 85 Rubles per post on condition of reaching 100 posts a day. Prighozin also has a cattering company, he "won" the contract for all of Moscow's schools which he provided with food that was past shelves date, which induced a disentry epidemic in all of Moscow's schools.




have naZi tattoos, get medals from Putin!!!


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## SalarHaqq

sammuel said:


> Long overdue.
> 
> This person has a habit of hiding his inability to answer your points , behind walls of words , that no one here has the patience to read.
> 
> ~



Hilarious interjection. Something you do not read by definition is something you cannot measure the validity of.

Whereas the other user had to resort to rhetorical figures to try and wiggle their way out, you of course are yet to muster the necessary creativity to at least try and twist the meaning of the statement from the ICRC's legal expert which I quoted.

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## SalarHaqq

So masks are falling, at last. Interesting:






At this rate, I won't even need to proceed with my work of exposure.

Pakistani and other Muslim users, behold the antics of a zionist pretending to speak for the French, who despises you as much as they are looking down on Russian Orthodox Christians and others.

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> Biden has already stated the US can sustain Ukraine for “years.” Russia is going to find itself in a hole it will take many, many years to recover from.
> 
> By the end of summer, Russia will likely have in excess of 100K+ casualties.


Well, if we are to help the Ukrainian, we need to help them make smart decision, which mean we need to help them recover their territories and not just killing Russian for fun. They aren't going to kill all the Russian, so we need to work out how to help them so they can make smart move and taken those territories back. 

That is the foremost important thing in my book.

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## S10

Raffie said:


> Meanwhile, Chinese communist party (CCP) won the war against the freedom of the people of China (I won't show PLA tanks rolling over Chinese peaceful protestors... This is how the Chinese commies do to maintain their regime nobody voted for, they also put Muslims in concentration camps and kill the Falugong members to sell their organs...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They also won their war against the 14th Dalaï Lama
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *FREE OCCUPIED TIBET
> DEMOCRACY FOR CHINA*



You mean Chinese government put down a riot and expelled a CIA backed donkey?

I believe you're trying to say good job.

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## Gomig-21

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Please watch this video fully to understand the crimes that Azov and nationalists committed against the people of Mariupol.



That was quite the heartening video. I'm mostly neutral in this fiasco, so no matter who is helping the poor civilians of either side while risking his or her life is nothing but a hero to me, just like that fella who travelled all the way from Moscow into the thick of the fighting and devastation to pass out food and supplies and bring gifts to the children in that school and the best part was looking for certain people he didn't know to bring back and reunite them with their families whom requested his help, and he obliged. Hero without question. Good post.

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## A.P. Richelieu

925boy said:


> so how does the war Russia is prosecuting CONTINUE????? these are half stories you're telling...lol...
> 
> in your logic, Russia having supply chains issues = Russia cant produce any military equipment, in times of war.
> 
> LMAOOO..


No, I don’t claim that Russia cannot produce any military equipment. They certainly can stamp out steel helmets.

What they cannot do is to produce military equipment which relies on Western electronic components, when stocks run out. That appears to include tanks and certain missiles.


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## NotSure

George Bush got pranked by Vovan and Lexus.



> You are a very, very wise Person

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## Wood

Reports about Russians preparing for offensive in Southern axis is troubling. I was hoping to see Ukraine push forward to reclaim Kherson. But it seems like they will have to be defensive and find it hard to contain Russian army over the summer months


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## Paul2

Wood said:


> Reports about Russians preparing for offensive in Southern axis is troubling. I was hoping to see Ukraine push forward to reclaim Kherson. But it seems like they will have to be defensive and find it hard to contain Russian army over the summer months



A big mystery is just how much Russian troops are there.

It's so far the easiest place to retake regardless of number of troops.


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## Wood

Paul2 said:


> A big mystery is just how much Russian troops are there.
> 
> It's so far the easiest place to retake regardless of number of troops.


Russians are also setting up secondary defensive line to keep their supplies safe this time. The lack of secondary echelon is said to be the prime reason for failure in Kiev. Seems like they have learned from that mistake now


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## Corax

Raffie said:


> The cool thing with Ukrainian army, it's that they will show you the military id papers if the Russian soldiers with naZi tattoos! Can Hassan show us the papers of the guy he pointed? Most of those in Wagner PMC are covered with Nazi tattoos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meet with Dmitry Utkin, ex-Spetsznaz, co-founder of the Wagner Private Miltary Company and friend of Vladimir Putin:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> note that Prighozin is also the founder of the infamous "Troll-Factory" in St.Petersbourg. He's the one paying SC and Hassan, they get 85 Rubles per post on condition of reaching 100 posts a day. Prighozin also has a cattering company, he "won" the contract for all of Moscow's schools which he provided with food that was past shelves date, which induced a disentry epidemic in all of Moscow's schools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> have naZi tattoos, get medals from Putin!!!



It's now turning into the wars in Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan, where there were "good" terrorists, and "bad" terrorists, we now have "good" Nazis (supported by the US and its dogs) and "bad" Nazis (the Russians), although of course the Russians see the Ukrainian Nazis as "bad".


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## Paul2

Wood said:


> Russians are also setting up secondary defensive line to keep their supplies safe this time. The lack of secondary echelon is said to be the prime reason for failure in Kiev. Seems like they have learned from that mistake now



Of course they learn when the West gave them 3 month worth of reprieve on weapon supplies to Ukraine.


As I said many times here, the worst thing for Ukrainians is Russians going on for proper defensive.



Ukraine already have 2 divisions of relatively well prepared reserves in Kiyv, and Lviv, the mystery for me why they are waiting so long to push them forward.


On top of that, there are at least 50 thousand territorials in Western Ukraine now doing completely nothing. That's more than the number of infantrmen in UK army.


The number of light infantry for frontline combat is low across Western armies in relation to specialists. Ukraine is a reverse of that, tons of people who are trained to fight in the field, but very few specialists, or support.

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## Foinikas

Meanwhile in Ukraine...

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## Corax

Foinikas said:


> Meanwhile in Ukraine...
> 
> View attachment 846895



In case the Americans on the forum don't get it, that's not the Russian flag.

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## Primus

Foinikas said:


> Meanwhile in Ukraine...
> 
> View attachment 846895


RIP the princes flag i guess...


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## nangyale

Viet said:


> You are clueless. the US never runs out of money if they need money they just print the money. Same for most countries in the world. UK, Japan, Vietnam China, India, Pakistan, you name it. Even Russia. If Putin wants to pay his fighting soldiers in Ukraine he prints rubles.


In front of such geniuses I agree I am clueless.

I am sure everyone will take you as the absolute authority on economics and finance, as you have proved your acumen beyond any doubt.

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## jhungary

Wood said:


> Reports about Russians preparing for offensive in Southern axis is troubling. I was hoping to see Ukraine push forward to reclaim Kherson. But it seems like they will have to be defensive and find it hard to contain Russian army over the summer months


It's Push and Pull. Both side traded ground, Russia is not in a position to cross the river to Mykolaiv 

But then so does the Ukraine to do the opposite, hence you are going to see pushes here and there from both side and artillery exchange in Kherson region until the Russian Eastern Offensive has stalled. Well, they have a pretty good defensive position outside Mykolaiv.

As I said on the other post, it looks like the Ukrainian are making the Eastern Offensive priority as they are the centre of Gravity in the whole situation, now that Mariupol has fallen, there aren't any meaningful reason to try to push Russia off Southern zone now, may as well just devote more troop in the East to try and push the Russian back there.


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## Hamartia Antidote

Corax said:


> In case the Americans on the forum don't get it, that's not the Russian flag.



Thank you mom...now if only others on this forum knew their own flags when they created their accounts here.

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## Vergennes

Foinikas said:


> Meanwhile in Ukraine...
> 
> View attachment 846895



Nice try though,it's a fake video orchestrated by the Russians few years ago trying to show Azov members burning the dutch flag.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528714672895049730


SalarHaqq said:


> So masks are falling, at last. Interesting:
> 
> View attachment 846855
> 
> 
> At this rate, I won't even need to proceed with my work of exposure.
> 
> *Pakistani and other Muslim users, behold the antics of a zionist pretending to speak for the French, who despises you as much as they are looking down on Russian Orthodox Christians and others.*




Well stated! We have too many *hasbara* shills in this forum, hiding behind US, Ukrainian, French, German, Swedish, and Polish flags.

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## Foinikas

Vergennes said:


> Nice try though,it's a fake video orchestrated by the Russians few years ago trying to show Azov members burning the dutch flag.


How do you know it has been orchestrated by Russians?

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## nangyale

Foinikas said:


> How do you know it has been orchestrated by Russians?


Simply. By looking at his propagandist's manual.

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## Wood

jhungary said:


> It's Push and Pull. Both side traded ground, Russia is not in a position to cross the river to Mykolaiv
> 
> But then so does the Ukraine to do the opposite, hence you are going to see pushes here and there from both side and artillery exchange in Kherson region until the Russian Eastern Offensive has stalled. Well, they have a pretty good defensive position outside Mykolaiv.
> 
> As I said on the other post, it looks like the Ukrainian are making the Eastern Offensive priority as they are the centre of Gravity in the whole situation, now that Mariupol has fallen, there aren't any meaningful reason to try to push Russia off Southern zone now, may as well just devote more troop in the East to try and push the Russian back there.


After the successful defence of Kharkiv, I thought Ukraine may want to recover some of its lost coastline. Why do you think that the defense of East is more important? Most of Donbass was occupied even before the invasion in February 



Paul2 said:


> Of course they learn when the West gave them 3 month worth of reprieve on weapon supplies to Ukraine.
> 
> 
> As I said many times here, the worst thing for Ukrainians is Russians going on for proper defensive.
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine already have 2 divisions of relatively well prepared reserves in Kiyv, and Lviv, the mystery for me why they are waiting so long to push them forward.
> 
> 
> On top of that, there are at least 50 thousand territorials in Western Ukraine now doing completely nothing. That's more than the number of infantrmen in UK army.
> 
> 
> The number of light infantry for frontline combat is low across Western armies in relation to specialists. Ukraine is a reverse of that, tons of people who are trained to fight in the field, but very few specialists, or support.


I can only think that Ukraine would have kept their reserves back because they may not have logistics necessary to push everyone at the same time. Or perhaps they are holding people as fall back if Russia decides to escalate with Indonesian unconventional weapons 🤔


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528494854657003525
Russian losses now at 3,800

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## Primus

I wonder when this war is over, if the Russians are able to take, hold and ultimately create the DPR and LPR, in Donbass, will there be a volatile LOC like situation on the border between the 2 countries like you see between Pakistan and India? Or is the LOC and its... Events are unique only to Pakistan and India.... A literal war being fought on a border, but dubbed as a CFV or skirmish


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## Foinikas

nangyale said:


> Simply. By looking at his propagandist's manual.


That doesn't prove that it's fake.


----------



## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528714672895049730



More nonsense from from you.

Do you have even one source that confirms this report ?



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Well stated! We have too many *hasbara* shills in this forum, hiding behind US, Ukrainian, French, German, Swedish, and Polish flags.



Only the Somali pirate can be trusted !



~


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Well stated! We have too many *hasbara* shills in this forum, hiding behind US, Ukrainian, French, German, Swedish, and Polish flags.





Can you just stick with your reporting and leave out your dumb accusations.

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## Sineva

Theres really nothing quite as nasty as watching good old [bad old] western hypocrisy and racism in action......🤢🤮
Occupied Palestine Is as Entitled to the World’s Solidarity as Occupied Ukraine​ 
By  Branko Marcetic 

*We could soon see another brutal Israeli war on Palestinians after this weekend’s shocking attacks on Ramadan worshippers by Israeli forces. Yet the Western solidarity that’s rightly been forthcoming for Ukraine is now nowhere to be seen.*
*https://jacobinmag.com/2022/04/palestine-israel-occupation-solidarity-ukraine-russia-al-aqsa-mosque*
This past weekend, the armed forces of an occupying power engaged in another round of brutal repression of the neighboring people they are subjugating, attacking unarmed civilians with everything from tear gas to live ammunition, and clearly committing war crimes. In this case, however, the abusive belligerent happens to be a Western ally.
A year after Israel’s bloody raids on the Al-Aqsa Mosque mushroomed into an eleven-day-long war on the Gaza Strip, the world appears to be looking at an extremely violent case of déjà vu. Over Easter weekend, Israeli forces again raided the structure, firing live rounds and stun grenades into the mosque, storming the prayer hall, and indiscriminately beating protesters, worshippers, and other civilians. The attacks left more than a hundred fifty injured on Friday alone, including journalists and paramedics.
The Israeli attacks were sparked after worshippers, bristling at the presence of Israeli snipers and other forces as they went to worship and anticipating a raid, began putting up wooden roadblocks and firing firecrackers at the troops. As part of an agreement made after the 1967 war, the compound — whose location is of religious significance to all three Abrahamic faiths — is under the management of the Jordanian government, which accused Israel of “illegal provocative measures” for letting Jewish worshippers on the site after its crackdown, an act even an Israeli judge ruled was illegal last year. It’s also worth noting that attacks on cultural sites and places of worship are strictly forbidden under international law.



There is a very real risk we could see Israel fight yet another “war” on Gaza — a somewhat misleading term, since the vast imbalance in military capability means such wars tend to be one-sided affairs where Israel simply pummels Gaza indiscriminately from the sky. Two of Israel’s last four wars against Gaza have been launched during Ramadan, including last year’s, which began with virtually identical violence in the Al-Aqsa Mosque, before turning into a bombing campaign that killed nearly two-hundred Palestinian civilians. We could end up in the same place now, as protests and violence intensifies, especially with Palestinian militants now seeming to resume rocket attacks on Israel, which had been on pause for months.
The current violence is the result of a confluence of factors. A spate of terrorist attacks against Israelis that left fourteen dead, including, most prominently, a shooting in a Tel Aviv nightclub at the start of April, spurred Israeli prime minister Naftali Bennett to give his armed forces “full freedom of action” to “defeat the terror.” This led in turn to a spate of killings of Palestinians by Israeli forces. Bennett, not unlike his predecessor Benjamin Netanyahu when he ordered the same kinds of raids last year, is in a tough position politically right now, having just lost his parliamentary majority. Meanwhile, Israeli extremists threatened in the lead-up to the day to carry out an animal sacrifice on the grounds, violating the ban on Jewish worship at the site.
But the deeper cause of the current violence is the same broad factor that led to last year’s Israeli raids: Israel’s ongoing illegal occupation of Palestine and its gradual theft of Palestinian land. The Tel Aviv nightclub shooter came from the occupied West Bank, and his attack was preceded by an uptick in settler violence.

A Staggering Double Standard​ 
While Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians is its own unique outrage, it can’t go unremarked upon how stark the difference is in how the West has responded to these events, and the response and policy prescriptions we’re hearing when it comes to the war in Ukraine.
Since Russia’s invasion, Western officials and commentators have started sounding curiously like Noam Chomsky: they’ve denounced violations of international law and territorial sovereignty, thrown around terms like imperialism and war of aggression, bewailed a supposed tendency to draw a false equivalency between the aggressor and their victims or to falsely blame both sides for violence, made widespread accusations of war crimes, and devoted an unprecedented amount of airtime to the invasion.
In this climate, there’s been virtually no limit to the action this state of affairs is held to demand from the West, even at the risk of a wider conflict between nuclear powers and an assortment of potential long-term ripple effects: such action includes massive quantities of arms shipments and providing logistical, intelligence, and other military support to defeat Russia, to unprecedented sanctions for collectively punishing the Russian population and private censure against ordinary Russians who had nothing to do with the war. A shocking number of voices have called for the West to not just begin directly fighting a war against Russia, but to be comfortable with the idea of a nuclear exchange with the country, along with publicly and privately spelling out a strategy of regime change.
These are, needless to say, risky and potentially disastrous ideas. But it’s notable that amid this sudden upsurge of armed solidarity with the victims of imperialistic military occupation, virtually no one is calling to offer Palestinians even an iota of the same kind of support. (This is, for the most part, just as well: if the Western world suddenly abandoned the long-standing consensus for a negotiated settlement to the conflict and began instead giving Palestinians Ukraine-like backing to fight a war of resistance against Israel, it would very likely trigger a brutal military response against the Palestinians, while causing massive loss of life on both sides, while at worst running the risk of a nuclear standoff).
But it’s not just that reckless military options are, thankfully, off the table. Even the solidarity so quickly and correctly offered to Ukrainians is missing from this latest attack on Palestinians, for whose suffering all the suddenly popular rhetoric about territorial sovereignty, agency, imperialism, and war crimes has simply evaporated.
As always, Western officials have shied away from so much as calling out the aggressor in this situation, with the US state department and the EU foreign policy chief calling on “both sides” or “all sides” to act with restraint. See if you can find anything that UK officials, some of the most gung ho when it comes to puffing their chests out against Russia, have said about Israel’s actions this past weekend. Western media, meanwhile, has reverted to the same style of coverage that usually prevails when it comes to Israel’s actions: simply talking about nebulous “clashes” that ascribe no blame or agency to anyone involved them, and treating the violence and crimes disproportionately carried out by Israel’s occupying forces as if it were weather.
We would be rightly outraged if Western officials and the press treated Moscow’s invasion like this, but outside of some pockets of the mainstream press and vanishingly few progressive lawmakers, there seems to be no real push for moral and intellectual consistency on this issue when it concerns a Western ally. The invasion of Ukraine could have been a teachable moment, for the Western public to apply its lessons to the violations carried out and supported by their own governments, and to ensure justice everywhere. As it stands, it looks like these lessons will only apply when it concerns those countries our officials consider enemies.

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## nangyale

Foinikas said:


> That doesn't prove that it's fake.


Guess sarcasm is lost on you.


----------



## jhungary

Wood said:


> After the successful defence of Kharkiv, I thought Ukraine may want to recover some of its lost coastline. Why do you think that the defense of East is more important? Most of Donbass was occupied even before the invasion in February
> 
> 
> I can only think that Ukraine would have kept their reserves back because they may not have logistics necessary to push everyone at the same time. Or perhaps they are holding people as fall back if Russia decides to escalate with Indonesian unconventional weapons 🤔


As with Kyiv, Donbas is the center of gravity because the Russian have changed its objective from Capturing Kyiv (Well, demilitarise and denazifying Ukraine) to Capture and hold the entire Donbas along with a land Corridor toward Transnistria.

That would mean if the Ukrainian successfully defending Donbas, their entire operation felt apart. The Ukrainian have probably chosen the objective in the long haul (Like 5 to 10 years) instead of a quick recapture and then peace talk and trade ground for peace, seems like the Ukrainian wanted all Russian out, that may or may not be including Donbas and Crimea. 

A few of the foreign fighter I've met in Ukraine have all gone to Donbas, which mean that was their main event at the moment. 

The way I see it, Ukraine want to play the long game, zap the Russian will to fight, and eventually give up on the operation and just leave. Much like how US withdraw from Afghanistan.

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## dBSPL

Kazakhstan freezes the assets of Russian banks in Kazakhstan.

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## jhungary

Foinikas said:


> How do you know it has been orchestrated by Russians?











Behind the Dutch Terror Threat Video: The St. Petersburg "Troll Factory" Connection - bellingcat


Translations:English (UK)Русский (Россия)At 13:30:09 GMT on 18 January 2016, a new YouTube channel called ПАТРИОТ (“Patriot”) uploaded its first video, titled (in Ukrainian) “Appeal of AZOV fighters to the Netherlands on a referendum about EU – Ukraine.” The video depicts six soldiers holding...




www.bellingcat.com





Read the entire bellingcat report

First of all, this photo existed since 2016, also no unit in Ukraine wear Multicam in 2016....Multicam uniform is issued to selected Ukrainian unit (Mostly SF) since June 2017, IIRC Azov start showing Multicam sometime in 2018.









Ukrainian Spetnaz's Weapons and Gear May Show an American Touch


A key part of the fight against Russian-backed separatists, Ukraine's spetnaz starting to look more and more like their Western counterparts.




www.thedrive.com

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## wahhab0202

Corax said:


> In case the Americans on the forum don't get it, that's not the Russian flag.


Hilarious


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## jhungary

wahhab0202 said:


> Hilarious


Yeah, because it was a fake video......

I mean the quality of this fake job is laughable, I will probably ask for my money back if I was in charge of whoever work on the disinformation network....


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## jhungary




----------



## Viet

nangyale said:


> In front of such geniuses I agree I am clueless.
> 
> I am sure everyone will take you as the absolute authority on economics and finance, as you have proved your acumen beyond any doubt.


Yes believe me, Russia has no future in Europe, no future in America, no future in Africa, no in Far East, she is finished. Putin’s last hope is China and India.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

sammuel said:


> More nonsense from from you.
> 
> Only the Somali pirate can be trusted !
> ~


I definitely suspect you are an Israeli hiding behind your flag!

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528776654239285250

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528727743940243462

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528747700161851393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528737229077610499


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528777927965523970


----------



## Nuclear Clown

DF41 said:


> China's DF-17 Hypersonic Weapon: A Killer the U.S. Military Can't Match
> 
> 
> Beijing’s first hypersonic weapons system, the DF-17 stands as one of the most militarily consequential additions to the People’s Liberation Army’s missile roster in recent years. The DF-17 was first unveiled in 2013. It entered service in 2019—on the heels of at least nine tests—after making...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.19fortyfive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Sinking A US Aircraft Carrier’ – Beijing Conducts Massive Military Drills In South China Sea To Ward-Off US Navy
> 
> 
> ‘Sinking A US Aircraft Carrier’ – Beijing Conducts Massive Military Drills In South China Sea To Ward-Off US Navy ByEurAsian Times Desk April 2, 2022 Chinese state television aired footage on March 30, of day-and-night drills by the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) along the coasts of the East...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China’s DF-21D, DF-26 Anti-Ship Ballistic Missiles Could Trigger Mayhem On US Aircraft Carriers – CRS Report
> 
> 
> China’s DF-21D, DF-26 Anti-Ship Ballistic Missiles Could Trigger Mayhem On US Aircraft Carriers – CRS Report ByAshish Dangwal - March 23, 2022 Top US commanders believe China’s stockpile of anti-ship ballistic missiles (ASBMs) can strike moving targets, as per a March 8 Congressional Research...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More cold sweat for USA , and anyone else who want to tango with China
> 
> 
> More cold sweat for USA , and anyone else who want to tango with China New marine species: China’s world-first drone-carrying ship capable of anything to give cold sweat to would be tangoists And more likely than not, China got even more goodies that China being modest, will not even hint...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cold sweat at the NSA
> 
> 
> 
> Much more. And I guess even more China not revealing to the world as yet.
> And while USA trying to compete with Russia for laser power, China going to rip matter from empty space with laser.
> https://www.space.com/39536-laser-china-rip-vacuum-antimatter.html
> Physicists are getting close to building lasers powerful enough to rip matter out of a vacuum.
> Remember China invented gunpowder primarily to make amusing fireworks to entertain themselves.
> Same thing with laser, and more


You know, in the west, we play with antimatter for decades at the CERN and at Lawrence Livermore, we can even store it for more than 10 years
The CERN is even opening wormholes and technically speaking, hopefully, it's not because they can that they will, as using the LHC to create a black-hole would be a very very bad idea!!!
Remember, China maybe invented the gunpowder, but didn't invented the carbine, it's a French who invented the carbine...

Now, when it comes to the Yankees, they didn't waited for the Beijing Central Committee :
*Ooops, GAM-87 (AGM-48) Skybolt, an US Mach 12 hypersonic cruise missile in...1962*





*NASA X-43* : 2001 : Mach 9.6 on scramjet




*Boeing X-51 Waverider* : 2010 : Mach5.1, weaponisable




Actually, considering what was commie China in 1936 : 




and in 1949: 




And their territorial claims today while, well, nobody ever elected them, all this was taken by force without taking care about the will of the people living here
Knowing that they have absolutely delirious territorial claims: 




and are into a military build up unseen since naZi Germany while this state has turned Orwellian and they have territorial disputes with 23 countries... The whole region is under threat by an aggressive imperialist totalitarian state...

Now, you guys are funny !!!! You don't know the Yankees!!! So you want to sink one of their aircraft carriers? They're even able to exhibit the USS Nimitz in the Taiwan strait and do provocations, just to see if you have balls as big as the Japs on Dec.7th 1941... BTW, the Yanks knew they were coming! They deliberately let them bomb Pearl Harbour without taking any "warm welcome" measures... In the imperial Japan staff, the only one that was thinking it was a bad idea to attack the Yanks was the one put in charge of the attack: Yamamoto... You know, it's where all so-called "strong" authoritarian regimes, in other name, tyrannies, have it all wrong: you ALL believe that democracy is weak and democratic nations are divided, argueing together for stupid things, etc, but just look at Ukraine and how a little democracy which only had a $3.6bn military budget in 2021 fights against a superpower with 20x its budget, I let you imagine what Taiwan can do with a budget similar to Israel and ZERO will to submit to the neighbouring bully...

Providing the fact that an *ASMPA-R costs only €18 millions with its 300 kilotons thermonuclear warhead*, This Mach3, stealth cruise missile is rather affordable...




If ASMP ranged 300km+, ASMPA ranged 500km+, ASMPA-R range has again been extended, so 700-800km, maybe more, sounds reasonable, but we've seem how the French ALWAYS lie about ranges: the SCALP-EG was said as "200km+" to the French senate. The Brits have leaked that it ranges 560km and there is potential that it still might range more than this

I think that we would be able to achieve formidable sales in Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, the Philippines, Vietnam, Thailand, Indonesia, Australia, Bhuatan, Nepal, and find a way to help Mongolia and maybe, if they're interested, Laos, at putting up a deterrent with it as, well, they're not too fit financially... Thus, I'm not sure Taiwan needs our nuclear missile, I have reasons to think that they're no more "just" nuclear threshold. Note that

It's high time to create an Asian NATO+EU : the Xi policy is no defensive at all : the building of force-projection like aircraft carriers and LHDs means that PRC is planning to start a "gunboat policy" on weaker nations. It's probably even feasible to make Kim Jong Un switch sides, which would be a great gain for both his people and such an alliance...

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528786384571482112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528686850017112064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528767336190205957

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528742591122100229


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528714044399566850

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528696509969096705

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528670562532347906

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528788235773743105

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## jamahir

Raffie said:


> And we can make Russian areas with more than a 1ppl per km² areas radioactive just like the Chernobyl's Red Forrest for the next 25,000 years : big arsenals mean that you can do airbursts with very small fallouts, destruction is maximized but you can re-use areas after 2-3 weeks... A medium nuke power like us would be way more nasty :
> 1. We understate our real arsenal
> 2. It is optimized to maximize fallouts : a 100 kilotons one is designed to kill as much as a 1 megaton one, no through thermal effect, but through acute radiation syndrome
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. If we have to use it, we won't do airbursts: surface burst may do only half the damages but anything into the fireball is neutron-activated, and at n millions of °C (I've heard about as high as 400M °C), all the crap gets airborne in the shroom, and again, we're speaking about enhanced radiation effect nukes, not your Nukemap's "standard" thermonuclear, and from recoupment of stuff I could learn about in the old days I was "subterranean" in areas you wander in wearing a Hazmat type B and a dosimeter, although not said publicly because of the ecologists, these are very probably "salted" bombs...
> 
> You've got it, the worst case scenario may not forcefully being the cretin of the Kremlin with his firecrackers doing big booms at 10,000-20,000 ft altitude, it's small ones used in surface bursts... Or big ones too... In fact, the results would look like the infamous 1956 nuke war plans except that rule out all the areas that pulled out from Russo/Soviet sphere and move the strikes into what's left : the 1st implies less than 200 blasts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 2nd about 500-550
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you know, with already 320 MIRVs at sea 24/7/365 in peace time, which are doubled in case of tensions added with the ALCMs getting prepositionned
> So, you know, when STATE-OWNED Rossiya-1 TV does Russian "humour" with such nuclear threats when their Waffen-SS orcs are murderind, raping Ukrainians at the same they're destroying and looting their homes and real-estate.
> Moreover, Rossiya-1 are liars : the RS-28 "Satan-II" are set to replace the 46 R-36M2 "Satan" in the silos of the 13th Red Banner Rocket Division at Yasny, Orenburg Oblast and of the 62nd Rocket Division at Uzhur, Krasnoyarsk Krai, all with 10x 1Mt MIRVs, all the R-36M2 Mod.6 with a single 20Mt warhead were decommissioned in 2009 and the combustible likely burnt as fuel in NPPs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, did you noticed how Bobo is loudmouthed while Macron speaks softly? Meanwhile, the 4 Triomphant-class submarines are at sea, the EC91 Gascogne's Rafales are not on their "home" base and IMHO, into 3 months, there was more time than it is needed to put what's in cocoon storage or maintenance back to active service and replace SCALP or MdCN conventional warheads with something else, then, I can't tell if there are still tactical ones available but there were rumours that the Exocet ASM could receive a tactical-nuke as soon as the early 80's. I didn't verified if the CVN is at sea and if its transponder is on or off
> And now the nasty part, the M51.3 has received the 3rd gen stealth ONERA's DEMR boss spoke about in 2009 since Hune 2020, Rafales are being upgraded to the F4 standard for 1 year+ now and the first to receive upgrades are always the EC91 and the Navy's squadrons since they carry the ASMPA-R, so forget about detecting these all even using the 29B6 Konteyner or the Voronezh radars, the fleet of Soviet spy sats are long gone and even if there were SAR radars, these would detect nothing, MdCN, SCALP and ASMPA-R are stealth although neither using 2nd gen like Rafale F3 or French navy vessels nor 3rd gen as M51.3 or Rafale F4, so their presence may be spotted under some conditions you will update the cruise missile's waypoints in order to avoid these.
> 
> Now don't ask me what's left in storage/set to be dismantled, I have no idea, but I'm not the only one to estimate that 350-500 would be realistic, this would imply a total arsenal of about 1000-1200 warheads available under a month [any way, even the peace-time "active" arsenal can already hurt very badly) and it's been more than a month since Vladolf Putler said he was Putin ruSSian strategic forces in alert, so make no mistake, France is in "DEFCON2" and if the Kremlin's Gremlin dares to attack an EU country, he perfectly knows about EU's constitution art 42.7, he perfectly knows about the French doctrine which implies that even a conventional war would meet a nuclear response, and he perfectly knows that it has been extended to the EU, and since that his friend Marine Le Pen hasn't been elected, there's no way to see France giving up this doctrine or pull out from NATO, or even pulling out from integrated command again [any way, French strategic forces are NOT part of NATO, moreover, her party is on the razor's edge and her too, they're in a judiciary turmoil, even the EU is suing them]...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So yup, even if not hammered in the MSM, Finland is absolutely under the French nuclear umbrella, so is Cyprus, in case of Ankara's Gollum forgot about it, as well as the Baltic States and you will notice that there is no silo in France, then, since all has switched to optic fiber, forget about breaking the command chain with EMP.
> Then yeah, Putler can surely wipeout France and the UK with his firecrackers, but with what would be left of ruSSia, added with an agricultural zone rendered radioactive for thousands of years, well, how long those in the Moscow's or St.Pete's subways dug 100m below the surface will survive? Even he ruSSian army's rations are long pas shelves dates, 20% of its budget is embezzled, ruSSia is corrupted from the top to the bottom, so don't expect civilian defense going better, you can be sure that if there was stockpiles of canned food in subways' storage, these are gone for long, and I don't think there are hydroponics. Expect something like Enki Bilal's _"Bunker Palace Hotel"_ for the elites which will end TARFU in it, and add a good 600-1000 rad/h on the surface...
> 
> Now, if you want to wipe out, it's not a few of Putler's firecrackers : with a 1 megaton airburst, you can expect
> such damages:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NUKEMAP by Alex Wellerstein
> 
> 
> NUKEMAP is a mapping mash-up that calculates the effects of the detonation of a nuclear bomb.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nuclearsecrecy.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (you may have to re-detonate as it will show up as a surface burst, thus minimizing the wipe-out features by about 50%)...
> When Rossiya-1 one brags about a single Sarmat wiping out the UK, this is utter BS !!! If the wind helps, the 10x 1 megaton MIRVs may cover about 20,000-30,000 km² at 1 rad/h, but the usual winds are not so fallout-spread friendly.
> This is not wiping out, it's making it radioactive with surface blasts  If you truly want to wipe out the UK, you need to use cose to 500x 1 Megaton warheads, in other terms, the whole fleet of 46 R-36M2which NATO calls "Satan" or its upcoming successor, the RS-28 Sarmat which NATO calls "Satan-II", or you'd need about 500 Topol-M with a single warhead, thus there are only 60 silo-based Topol-M and 18 TELs...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are only 36 road mobile older Topols which are being phased out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for the RS-24 Yars which is MIRVed: 136 road-mobile and 14 silo-based missiles are deployed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This implies you're no more in a city-buster strategy.
> Frankly, when the Sarmat/Sineva factory did burn a few years ago, I believed Putin had grown a brain and did his McNamara, but ruSSian style...
> Since the Sarmat is to finally replace the R-36M2, and according to the fact he's wiping out cities again while proffering nuclear threats, unfortunately, he obviously didn't broke up with the Soviet/Nazi barbarian issues of terrorizing populations...
> The bulk of the arsenal is submarine based, with 5 Borei and a Typhoon totally 100 RSM-56 Bulava with 6 MIRVs each (600 warheads), and 7 Delta IV with a total of 112 R-29RMU Sineva and so 448 MIRVs
> But considering that the Sinevas as well as the R-36 Tsyklon or the Sarmat are liquid-fuelled, don't bet on a 100% launch success, if some dude didn't managed to sell the fuel  When you know that in St.Pete, the best Vodka is sold by the Ru-Air Force dudes and analysis have shown there is kerosene in, I'd definitively avoid vodka sold by the submariners or by the 13th and 62nd rocket divisions: you probably have hydrazine in
> They're not even able to put ERA bricks on their tanks, the body armours are so long past shelf-dates that non-AP rounds pierce through, and visibly, if the Arena active protection system works, the 1600+ tanks and 3000+ IFV/APC destroyed by Ukraine didn't received it more than ERA, while, during latest Hezbollah attack into Israel, the two Kornet-E launched against an Israeli MRAP were intercepted by Trophy LV...
> 
> Oh, BTW, Turkey complains that S-400 is barely useless... So, you know, I use the word "firecrackers" deliberately about ruZZian nuclear arsenal... Oh, for sure, it may do some damages, but you can be near certain that the French arsenal, and maybe even the Israeli arsenal if Colin Powell and Jimmy Carter didn't lied, can hurt freaking bad, much badly than many are willing to think...
> 
> As we are, the fully loaded 100Mt Tsar Bomba in a surface burst would have spread fallouts over about 500,000km² with about 1.1km³ of ground vaporized and made radioactive with a mushroom cloud between 40 and 53km altitude... Imagine that, since the location is classified, and likely in some bunker, some wise ruSSian general targets this bunker with a Topol-M in a surface burst... 30t of mil-grade Pu239 at 20 kt/kg=> 600 megatons, add 1 NPP for less than 10,000km² with, for the most of them, 4x 3.8GWth reactors and it's impossible to estimate the quantity of antimatter in storage, the only thing is that with 10µg, it's said having enough energy to go to Mars and back, and 1g = 43 kilotons => 2150x more powerful than Pu239...
> 
> I'd be very careful if I was into using nuclear weapons against France which is the most denuclearized country on the planet: there might be some unwanted side effects like a nuclear winter, a nuclear disaster of apocalyptical proportions, who knows, maybe a gigantic hole in the Earth's crust of the level of the Oruanui VEI-8 eruption if not worse, some dude at the Large Hadron Collider may even decide to lift all securities and unleash a small blackhole which will grow and grow at the point after some time it will eat the solar system or more...
> 
> So, as you see, I definitively do not fear Putler's arsenal, he's a nuclear clown, ruSSia is a paper tiger
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and I'm positive with a direct NATO intervention in Ukraine to kick his orcs out, period!
> He can always use one of his firecrackers as a dildo, he'll surely enjoy it more than Hermann Goering enjoyed what his great dane dog had to offer...



So much technical info but all being nonsense. You are like some Hindutvadi professors in current India who believe that Hindus were flying about in Vimanas throughout the Solar System 15,000 years ago, had other marvelous technology like in vitro fertilization, stem cell tech, advanced plastic surgery, satellite-augmented internet etc. You should get Macron to immediately launch attack on Russia with French supa dupa nuclear weapons because after all Russia has firecrackers that can't harm a dog in France.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528780852192223233

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528789538142834688


jamahir said:


> So much technical info but all being nonsense. You are like some Hindutvadi professors in current India who believe that Hindus were flying about in Vimanas throughout the Solar System 15,000 years ago, had other marvelous technology like in vitro fertilization, stem cell tech, advanced plastic surgery, satellite-augmented internet etc. You should get Macron to immediately launch attack on Russia with French supa dupa nuclear weapons because after all Russia has firecrackers that can't harm a dog in France.




Or perhaps he (or she) is hasbara shill just carrying out his/her copy / paste operation from their propaganda hasbara outlets.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528780852192223233




Looks like whatever that was provided as aid to the Ukrainians has already been destroyed by the victorious Russians. So the empire front men and women are panicking now. 👇



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528645329054224385

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## MeFishToo

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528780852192223233


Posted it a few days ago, but this is the Harpoon system in danish stock. A firing drill years ago, before decommision.


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528800427080404993


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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528789538142834688
> 
> 
> 
> Or perhaps he (or she) is hasbara shill just carrying out his/her copy / paste operation from their propaganda hasbara outlets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like whatever that was provided as aid to the Ukrainians has already been destroyed by the victorious Russians. So the empire front men and women are panicking now. 👇
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528645329054224385




You do realize the US has funded the Ukrainian military until the end of the year right? The new packages haven’t even been announced yet  

And victorious? Ukraine has REGAINED more territory since the end of April than Russia has gained since.

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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528802500865929217
47 countries!!! Glory to Ukraine. The Free World will prevail.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jamahir

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Or perhaps he (or she) is hasbara shill just carrying out his/her copy / paste operation from their propaganda hasbara outlets.



Very possible.



Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528800427080404993



OK, that picture's a change from your usual posting of almost naked bodybuilders flexing victoriously.

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## dbc

‘Ashamed’ Russian diplomat resigns over Putin’s ‘aggressive war’​

“For twenty years of my diplomatic career I have seen different turns of our foreign policy, but never have I been so ashamed of my country as on February 24 of this year,” he wrote, referring to the date the invasion was launched.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/05/23/russia-diplomat-resigns-united-nations-ukraine-war/

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528805413549920257

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528806042729168897


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## Wergeland

Raffie said:


> Oh, c'mon, the Palestinian people was invented by Yuri Andropov in 1964, to be used as a demographic weapon against Israel! This is great from you since I CLOSELY studied the subject and the history of the region and obviously, you didn't and are just swallowing bogus propaganda without scratching the surface and looking for the truth, as usua !!!
> BTW, despite having closely studied this, I still can't win the Bentley offered to anyone able to answer 12 simple questions you'd find the answer about ANY other country on its Wikipedia page, or any encyclopaedia, go figure why!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, do you know there is no "P" in Arabic, that's why they pronounce "Fallestine" and sometimes "Ballestine"... Do you know any people unable to pronounce its own name?
> Any idea why? The name "Palestina" was given to the whole region by the Romans to punish the Jewish revolt in 53AD, the etimology is the Hebrew word "Paleshet" which means... INVADER !!! So your beloved "Palestinians" call themselves invaders in broken Hebrew and don't even know it!
> 
> Oh, BTW, you heard about Hollywood, you've heard about Bollywood, but "Palestine" gave us *PALLYWOOD*!!! Here's the best of Pallywood!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moreover, the two states solution is ALREADY applied by the 1922 San Remo treaty that fixes the borders of Jewish Palestine (Israel) and Arab Palestine (Jordan)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note that, the 1918 census says there were only 15,000 Arabs living in now Israel, including the Palestinian-occupied territories, more than half of them not even born here : 5000 were imported from Hejaz (Mecca kingdom) to Haifa by the Turks in 1905, to build the Haifa-Amman-Damascus railroad, about 5000 were nomad Bedouins wandering the deserts of the region with their camels, so depending on their trade, you could find as well in Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Hejaz and even sometimes in Arabia or Iraq.
> 
> Now, please explain to me how to go from a population of only 5000 local Arabs to 5 millions in one century, and even 12-15 millions with an alleged diaspora, if you listen to the PLO terrorist Abu Mazen, better known as Mahmoud Abbas... ???
> Well, the Brit ministry of collonies is partly responsible as, despite the treaties, they proceeded to an illegal Arab immigration in order to balance the growth of the Jewish population (about 85k in 1918) to which Jews from all around the world started to add to, returning to their historical land... This illegal immigration was even highlighted by Winston Churchill himself when 30,000 Syrians were imported in a single month in 1937 (or was it in 1936?). Not a surprise too, the ministry of collonies was also fuelling ethnic tensions, e.g. they appointed the infamous *Amin al-Hussein*i [who was Yasser Arafat's uncle!] as grand mufti of Jerusalem's al-Aqsa mosque (which was built about 1 century after the death of Muhammad, this is not the night journey's mosque, al-Aqsa was already destroyed twice by the God of Israel through earthquakes)
> 
> But this was nothing : by 1948, there were barely 900k Arabs only...The enormous growth was still to come:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, if you think I'm hasbara, which is wrong [my wife is an Arab, BTW, it's from this I notticed there was no "P" and started to question the Palestinan big lie : I used to believe the same BS as you, even wearing a keffiyeh when I was younger], while you're obviously from the Prizhokin's Troll Factory and paid 85Ru per post, be aware that ALL I POINT comes from... Arabs!!! And here's what they, including Fakestinians, declared!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even Mahmoud Abbas declared that it wasn't the Jews who expelled the still-not-named-so Palestinians in 1948, and so did the world's press of that time!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, BTW, IsraHELL for whom?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 123 Israeli kids killed in the Intifadah
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zionism-israel.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *What the Palestinian Authority doesn't wants you to see: the real extent of damages Israel constant shelling, bombing does to Palestinian cities: an absolute shame!*
> 
> 
> https://www.zupimages.net/up/22/21/aar7.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.zupimages.net/up/22/21/cw27.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.zupimages.net/up/22/21/lr3a.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.zupimages.net/up/22/21/zk5o.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.zupimages.net/up/22/21/6vgv.jpg
> 
> 
> Well, OK, there's an area in Gaza that is damaged : it's from there that Hamas launches their usual 800-1200 rockets on Israel's cities and towns, usually on Saturday as it's Shabbat, then they pose as victims when Israel drops bombs (filled with concrete to avoid as much as possible to kill innocent civilians, but Hamas still uses human shields, and usually will sell their organs if these end killed. As Hamas minstry of Interior proudly declared :_ "Hamas made death an industry!"_



What does it matter what they are called?

They are indiginous to the land they live in. Genetic research prove that. In fact jews whos been living in that area (before european jews moved came) and Palestinians are genetically close. Thats not strange because many local jews have converted to islam since the earliest Caliphates.

OTOH Ashkenazie European jews who migrated there, are a foreign element.

Would you like if some foreigner one day knocked on your door and kicked your whole family out by the gunpoint? Not only that but also placed you in restricted camps just made for your kind. Soo they created a new country with help from powers far away, just because they can. YOU OTOH discover that your peope are forever evicted from your homes and your land taken by force bit by bit, Killing and murdering any of your kind who stand in the way. Soon your people are second class citizen. Not only that, Your people are labeled terrorists just for standig up against this foreign occupation and destruction of eveything you hold dear.

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## Nuclear Clown

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528714672895049730Well stated! We have too many *hasbara* shills in this forum, hiding behind US, Ukrainian, French, German, Swedish, and Polish flags.


Et encore plus de trolls russes payés 85 roubles par post. Totalement hasbeen et hasbarés, à coups de vodka coupée à l'hydrazine, ils sont hasbourrés...
I ❤️ you anyway, despite you are intellectually misled into backing monsters who are deliberately committing a genocide and destroying a country... You all lack of love and of truth in your lives. I'm rather sad there is no other way to do with people of the lkes of Putin, Erdogan, etc, who only understand force, that the only way to go with them is to apply the laws of physics where, to any action, there is a reaction of the same force, in the end, it's a zero sum game in which tens of thousands people end being slaughtered. How low your life must be to have so much hatred on people who actually never did harm to you.


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## LeGenD

Dear members,

- Address arguments of each other.
- Do not attack each other.

Thanks.

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## Nuclear Clown

Wergeland said:


> What does it matter what they are called?
> 
> They are indiginous to the land they live in. Genetic research prove that. In fact jews whos been living in that area (before european jews moved came) and Palestinians are genetically close. That not stange single many local jews concerted to islam since the earliest Caliphates.
> 
> OTOH Ashkenazie European jews who migrated there, are a foreign element.
> 
> Would you like if some foreigner one day knocked on your door and kicked your whole family out by the gunpoint? Not only that but also placed you in restricted camps just made for your kind. Soo they created a new country with help from powers far away, just because they can. YOU OTOH discover that your peope are forever evicted from your homes and your land taken by force bit by bit, Killing and murdering any of your kind who stand in the way. Soon your people are second class citizen. Not only that, Your people are labeled terrorists just for standig up against this foreign occupation and destruction of eveything you hold dear.


Nope, they're not indigenous, Arabs are not even indigenous in the Levant, Ashkenazims are a minority in Israel, more than 50% are Mizrahi whose ancestors never left the region, then there are N-African Jews, the Sepharads.
In case you wouldn't knew, after WW2, there were very few European Jews left to move there, your favourite Austrian corporal had created funny holidays camps for them, and they never left these places...
And I'd prefer sticking to the subject than counting the... 





Godwin Points

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## jamal18

F-22Raptor said:


> You do realize the US has funded the Ukrainian military until the end of the year right? The new packages haven’t even been announced yet
> 
> And victorious? Ukraine has REGAINED more territory since the end of April than Russia has gained since.

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## LeGenD

Wergeland said:


> What does it matter what they are called?
> 
> They are indiginous to the land they live in. Genetic research prove that. In fact jews whos been living in that area (before european jews moved came) and Palestinians are genetically close. Thats not strange single many local jews concerted to islam since the earliest Caliphates.
> 
> OTOH Ashkenazie European jews who migrated there, are a foreign element.
> 
> Would you like if some foreigner one day knocked on your door and kicked your whole family out by the gunpoint? Not only that but also placed you in restricted camps just made for your kind. Soo they created a new country with help from powers far away, just because they can. YOU OTOH discover that your peope are forever evicted from your homes and your land taken by force bit by bit, Killing and murdering any of your kind who stand in the way. Soon your people are second class citizen. Not only that, Your people are labeled terrorists just for standig up against this foreign occupation and destruction of eveything you hold dear.


Fair point.

Although, Arab rejection of United Nations Resolution 181 and efforts to rout Israel by force made the matter much worse for Muslim Palestinian inhabitants. Israel defeated arabs and gained more lands in each war.

Lesson is that decisions made on 'emotions' can backfire spectacularly.

One state solution looks feasible now - the original British Palestine. Two state solution is lost cause in my view.


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## jamahir

LeGenD said:


> One state solution looks feasible now - the original British Palestine. Two state solution is lost cause in my view.



One state yes indeed though I don't know about the British plan. I speak of the Libyan proposal called Isratin, a democratic country for today's Palestinian Muslims, Christians and others and the Jews and others from Israel.

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## 925boy

Raffie said:


> *Time for fastbreeders like Superphénix and make nuclear fuel a renewable energy*
> 
> Below are the 15 countries that exported the highest dollar value worth of natural uranium during 2020.
> 
> Kazakhstan: US$1.7 billion (56% of natural uranium exports)
> Canada: $1.0 billion (33.6%)
> United States: $214.3 million (7%)
> Ukraine: $80.3 million (2.6%)
> Netherlands: $13.5 million (0.4%)
> South Africa: $8.5 million (0.3%)
> Germany: $1.5 million (0.05%)
> France: $777,000 (0.03%)
> Sweden: $644,000 (0.02%)
> Egypt: $265,000 (0.01%)
> Switzerland: $121,000 (0.004%)
> *Russia: $77,000 (0.003%)*
> Malaysia: $23,000 (0.001%)
> United Kingdom: $17,000 (0.001%)
> India: $10,000 (0.0003%)
> WHICH RUSSIAN URANIUM ???? FRANCE EXPORTS 10x MORE URANIUM THAN RUSSIA !!!
> BTW, if ever it's 93.5% enriched uranium (military grade), you don't even get 2kg for $77,000
> Prosit for your 85 Rubles BS post !!!


but is it actually French Uranium or AFrican Uranium that's being called French Uranium? i'm very serious btw, not trying to troll.

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## LeGenD

jamahir said:


> One state yes indeed though I don't know about the British plan. I speak of the Libyan proposal called Isratin, a democratic country for today's Palestinian Muslims, Christians and others and the jews and others from Israel.



It may be called anything but it shall do if Muslim Palestinians are accepted and granted same rights as Israeli nationals. 

Palestinians should contemplate one state solution. They have suffered enough.

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## Wergeland

LeGenD said:


> Fair point.
> 
> Although, Arab rejection of United Nations Resolution 181 and efforts to rout Israel by force made the matter much worse for Muslim Palestinian inhabitants. Israel defeated arabs and gained more lands in each war.
> 
> Lesson is that decisions made on 'emotions' can backfire spectacularly.
> 
> One state solution looks feasible now - the original British Palestine. Two state solution is lost cause in my view.



There was no problem between jews and muslims living there before Israel was established.

It was Israel who began enroaching on Palestinian land since day one. Massacring anyone who dared to stand in the way.

Two state solution is dead, not because of Palestinians, but because Israel has occupied so much land and built so many settlement (which btw are illegal according to UN resolutions), that a separate Palestinian nation is not PHYSICALLY possible anymore. Israel deliberately killed the two-state solution by eating up palestinian lands and homes through salami slicing.

All of this happened with full US support for every Israeli government since WW2. Now the same USA is telling the world that Russia is bad because they occupy Ukraine. Same USA expects the muslim world to boycott Russia. But in the USA, the boycott-Israel movement is being banned through LEGISLATIONS in STATE ASSMBLIES!!

Add to that the USA, as the first country, opened Embassy in Jerusalem.

That is the corundum of this whole situation and why the USA today finds it hard to influence rest of the world the way it used to. USA alianated the entire Muslim World by supporting Israel. Jerusalem is not like any other City. Its the THIRD HOLIEST PLACE in ISLAM.

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## jhungary

Wergeland said:


> There was no problem between jews and muslims living there before Israel was established.
> 
> It was Israel who began enroaching on Palestinian land since day one. Massacring anyone who dared to stand in the way.
> 
> Two state solution is dead, not because of Palestinians, but because Israel has occupied so much land and built so many settlement (which btw are illegal according to UN resolutions), that a separate Palestinian nation is not PHYSICALLY possible anymore. Israel deliberately killed the two-state solution by eating up palestinian lands and homes through salami slicing.
> 
> All if this hapoened with full US support for every Israeli government simce WW2. Now the same USA is telling the world that Russia is bad because they occupy Ukraine. Same USA expects the muslim world to boycott Russia. But in the USA the boycott-Israel movement is being banned through LEGISLATIONS in STATE ASSMBLIES!!
> 
> Add to that the USA, as the first country, opened Embassy in Jerusalem.
> 
> That is the corundum of this whole situation and why the USA today finds it hard to influence rest of the world, the way the way it used to. USA alianated the entire Muslim World by supporting Israel. Jerusalem is like not like any other City. Its the THIRD HOLIEST PLACE in ISLAM.



So, in your book, two wrong DID make one right? Right? Just because US support Israel and oppress on Palestine issue, then the Muslim world must support Russian occupying Ukraine?? 

I am not interested in argument, just one thing. The moment you take side is the moment you lost your high ground. I have no problem you support Russia, but do it for the right reason. If you are supporting Russia because you think US wronged the Palestine, then you are not doing Palestine or Palestinian any service, in fact, you are doing them disservice because you are using that to justify some one else own imperialistic aggression. The only different is, this imperialistic aggression have nothing to do with you, or Muslim in general.

Don't need to reply to me, I have said all I want to say. I am not going to reply to you or anyone who reply to this post.


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## jamahir

LeGenD said:


> It may be called anything but it shall do if Muslim Palestinians are accepted and granted same rights as Israeli nationals.



1. Yes, the name may be anything. "Isratin" was just a name of convenience when the idea was proposed. Something that the Israeli hardliners could consider as also the Palestinians whether leftist or right-wing.

2. Yes, your point about Muslim Palestinians' rights will be as equal to the Jews and others.



LeGenD said:


> Palestinians should contemplate one state solution. They have suffered enough.



Agreed. The Palestinians have suffered long and the Jews of Israel can't be thrown into the Red Sea which unfortunately I find is the misguided sentiment of many emotional Muslims and of some Muslim leaders who want to be seen being a "lion" by mouthing anti-Israel statements constantly. But if a leader like Muammar Gaddafi who has done so much for the Palestinian cause including by organizing transnational revolutionary individuals and groups like Carlos the Jackal, Japanese Red Army, German Red Army, if he can mellow and propose a coming together of Muslims and Jews then such a thing should indeed be done. We can easily imagine how much of strife in the world this will end once and for all.


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## Wergeland

jhungary said:


> So, in your book, two wrong DID make one right? Right? Just because US support Israel and oppress on Palestine issue, then the Muslim world must support Russian occupying Ukraine??
> 
> I am not interested in argument, just one thing. The moment you take side is the moment you lost your high ground. I have no problem you support Russia, but do it for the right reason. If you are supporting Russia because you think US wronged the Palestine, then you are not doing Palestine or Palestinian any service, in fact, you are doing them disservice because you are using that to justify some one else own imperialistic aggression. The only different is, this imperialistic aggression have nothing to do with you, or Muslim in general.
> 
> Don't need to reply to me, I have said all I want to say. I am not going to reply to you or anyone who reply to this post.



Dude you mixing things here.
Its not about supoorting Russia or Not. As i have told before, Russia is a irrelevant country to me, i am neither for or against it.

Its the US that expects muslim states to cut off Russia. If they listen or not is probably mostly a calculated realpolitik choice. But the normal man in the street, will have less goodwill against USA because of its history of supporting Israel. Of course there are many other factor that play in how a country is percieved. Relationships and narratives are built over many many years.

Still most human have something called emotions and muslims are emotionally attached to the cause of the Palestinian people and Jerusalem as a muslim Holy City

this is my last post about this issue.

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## jamal18

*$40 billion aid for Ukraine.*

I just heard an analysis that of this amount, only $6 billion is for military aid _and training. _

The rest is for other Ukaraine related items.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528822506626367489

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## jhungary

jamal18 said:


> *$40 billion aid for Ukraine.*
> 
> I just heard an analysis that of this amount, only $6 billion is for military aid _and training. _
> 
> The rest is for other Ukaraine related items.











Factbox: The big items in Washington's $40 billion Ukraine aid package


The U.S. Senate passed a bill on Thursday that would provide some $40 billion in additional military, economic and humanitarian aid to Ukraine following Russia's invasion as the Biden administration predicts a prolonged conflict.




www.reuters.com





6 billions for article purchase for Ukraine. 8.7 billions for replacement US article (which mean US will give those article to Ukraine and re-buy it for themselves) and then 4 billions FMS funding, 4 billions for humanitarian assistance and 9 billions for economic assistance. Couple with a few hundred millions for diplomacy and embassy related funding, that make up the 40 billions Ukrainian aid bill


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528828249127759872

Russian losses now over 3,900. 

4,000 approaching

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## Wergeland

Raffie said:


> Nope, they're not indigenous, Arabs are not even indigenous in the Levant, Ashkenazims are a minority in Israel, more than 50% are Mizrahi whose ancestors never left the region, then there are N-African Jews, the Sepharads.
> In case you wouldn't knew, after WW2, there were very few European Jews left to move there, your favourite Austrian corporal had created funny holidays camps for them, and they never left these places...
> And I'd prefer sticking to the subject than counting the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Godwin Points











Jews are the genetic brothers of Palestinians, Syrians, and Lebanese, study finds


If a common heritage conferred peace, then perhaps the long history of conflict in the Middle East would have been resolved years ago. For, according to a new scientific study, Jews are the genetic brothers of Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese, and they all share a common genetic lineage that...



www.sciencedaily.com





There you go

There are many other research who show same results. Palestinians and indiginous jews are genetically same. Not suprising considering they inhabit the same land since millennia. You dont even have to do genetic research, just look at their physical appearence lol.

You have been spreading some serious bullcrab with those ridiculous posts. Some of them are straight out crackpot-level. Now spreading disinformation and straight out lies about Palestinians too.

Of course not all jews like to hear the truth, especialy not Ashkenazie:





__





Journal axes gene research on Jews and Palestinians | World news | The Guardian


A keynote research paper showing that Middle Eastern Jews and Palestinians are genetically almost identical has been pulled from a leading journal.




amp.theguardian.com

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## A.P. Richelieu

Wergeland said:


> There was no problem between jews and muslims living there before Israel was established.
> 
> It was Israel who began enroaching on Palestinian land since day one. Massacring anyone who dared to stand in the way.


You obviously do not know anything about the modern history of Palestine.
Jews started immigrating to the area in the nineteenth century, and purchased land from rich Arabs to create farms. Some locals did not like the immigrants, we call such people ”racists” here, started attacking the new farms.
There were such shootings as early as 1888.
They locals also complained to the Ottomans who found the complaint without merit. The Jews farmed land and paid their taxes. The Ottomans had no problems with such people.





__





List of killings and massacres in Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Bayraktar TB2s have struck the Russian targets under the protection of S-400 in Ukraine. S-400 radar systems can't detect a TB2 for its slow and low physical movement is perfectly matched with its EW envelop associated traveling EM waves. Not to mention the highly effective sensor fusion supporting the optimized on-the-fly real-time computational capability including signal/image processing, finite element analysis, AI, deep learning etc....

All the vodka and tobacco in Europe can't help the Russian physicists and mathematicians...

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## Nuclear Clown

dBSPL said:


> Kazakhstan freezes the assets of Russian banks in Kazakhstan.


Putler wanted to break NATO, now it's CSO that is falling apart
Except Isengard (Belarus), no CSO countries backed the invasion at the UNGA vote.
My 2 cents Armenia may seek closer links with the west soon : I don't think they liked Putin's idling in the 2020 conflict with Azeris... 
If Kazakhstan gets out of Russian orbit, it would be devastating for Russian space industry!






Viet said:


> Yes believe me, Russia has no future in Europe, no future in America, no future in Africa, no in Far East, she is finished. Putin’s last hope is China and India.


India is pulling out of Russosphere!! They're done with Russian weaponry scams! I let you imagine the face of their infantry personnel watching turret-throwing contests in Ukraine! Even if it's not generalized, they're starting to get that Putin's kleptocracy is not the Soviet Union, that despite implying in BRICS, SCO, uncle-Xi goes on with backing commie terrorists in India while attacking jawans at the border... 

Now look at India's arms inventory : even if there are still purchases as they're still highly dependant on Russian equipment, they enhance it with western systems, they're #1 client to Russia, but to Israel too, we (EU, especially France) and Brits have a huge market share, and the Yanks entered the market and weight about 15% now!!! India even got a waiver on S-400 while Turkey is NATO [at least on paper: ErdoGollum is getting on everybody's nerves for a while] got sanctioned! 

When it comes to China, remember that they abstained at the UNGA votes... In fact, with the total war Putler is doing in Ukraine, a real backing is unlikely : it's DEFINITIVELY NOT their interest to support... Moreover, even if they can get cheap oil/gas from it, China, and even Mongolia, have large shale oil basins, and over $50 the Brent barrel, fracking is profitable... So, if Putin wants to sell oil or gas, it'll be far under the market price!!! Then, You can always win a bet on one thing: China prefers money to politics, and the volume of trade with Russia is insignificant compared to the trade with USA and EU which is what made China becoming rich, as well as it has also already induced huge growth in India or Indonesia, even if it's more recent...

The more likely is that PRC may manage this just like with some other pariah states, e.g. North Korea, which, BTW, could easily change its status : it wouldn't take more than US/EU recognising its nuclear status and getting that its greatly US fault if they're a bit paranoid, Frankly, what MacArthur did there deserved a Nuremberg-styled trial, but well, few of us were here when it happened and it'd certainly be feasible to get over it now... After Trump engaged the dialogue for the 1st time ever, IMHO, there might be something workable to do, it may take time (probably 2-3 decades) but a kind of Korean federal state would be feasible rather fast, then going into a full merge. It would even be funny if they considered a kind of Brit-like monarchy where KJU family would get a kind of historical special status as a reward for helping reunification, moreover, the NoKo aesthetics would surely sell for tourism, the fact pot is legal too

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## Wergeland

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You obviously do not know anything about the modern history of Palestine.
> Jews started immigrating to the area in the nineteenth century, and purchased land from rich Arabs to create farms. Some locals did not like the immigrants, we call such people ”racists” here, started attacking the new farms.
> They locals also complained to the Ottomans who found the complaint without merit. The Jews farmed land and paid their taxes. The Ottomans had no problems with such people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List of killings and massacres in Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



Lol 

You obviously twist and bend eveything in favour of colonialist askenazie jews. Yes jews began migrating there in the 19-th century. Zionist Jews also consider then Rodesia for a setting up a jewish country but decided to go for the area of present day Israel, because THERE WAS ALREADY MANY JEWS LIVING THERE. 

Some Palestinians disliked the newcomers, some sold land foe money to the newcomers. But none of them could ever inagine in the wildelst dream that their people and descendants would be occupied and force evicted from their own land a few generation later.

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## Sharma Ji

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> Bayraktar TB2s have struck the Russian targets under the protection of S-400 in Ukraine. S-400 radar systems can't detect a TB2 for its slow and low physical movement is perfectly matched with its EW envelop associated traveling EM waves. Not to mention the highly effective sensor fusion supporting the optimized on-the-fly real-time computational capability including signal/image processing, finite element analysis, AI, deep learning etc....
> 
> All the vodka and tobacco in Europe can't help the Russian physicists and mathematicians...


Ukraine is totally winning this war, bro.

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## LeGenD

Wergeland said:


> There was no problem between jews and muslims living there before Israel was established.
> 
> It was Israel who began enroaching on Palestinian land since day one. Massacring anyone who dared to stand in the way.
> 
> Two state solution is dead, not because of Palestinians, but because Israel has occupied so much land and built so many settlement (which btw are illegal according to UN resolutions), that a separate Palestinian nation is not PHYSICALLY possible anymore. Israel deliberately killed the two-state solution by eating up palestinian lands and homes through salami slicing.
> 
> All of this happened with full US support for every Israeli government since WW2. Now the same USA is telling the world that Russia is bad because they occupy Ukraine. Same USA expects the muslim world to boycott Russia. But in the USA, the boycott-Israel movement is being banned through LEGISLATIONS in STATE ASSMBLIES!!
> 
> Add to that the USA, as the first country, opened Embassy in Jerusalem.
> 
> That is the corundum of this whole situation and why the USA today finds it hard to influence rest of the world the way it used to. USA alianated the entire Muslim World by supporting Israel. Jerusalem is not like any other City. Its the THIRD HOLIEST PLACE in ISLAM.



Modern Israel became a reality in 1947 by virtue of the United Nations Resolution 181 (approved by 33 member states). Episodes of violence at the time were due to political effects of partition and relocations.

Partition violence was much worse in the subcontinent in fact.

The 1st Arab - Israel War was fought in 1948, and Israel gained more lands due to this war.






This war was a bad decision (Arab miscalculation), and changed the political calculus and environment of the region.

The 2nd Arab - Israel War was fought in 1967, and Israel gained even more lands due to this war.









How the 1967 war changed the shape of Israel


A guide to the ABC of the conflict




www.economist.com





Israel became bold and began to encroach on foreign lands since 1980. Religious fundamentalism had taken roots in the region by now. The encroachment was definitely wrong.

But things should move forward from here. OIC should contemplate one state solution now. It should be pitched to Palestinians.









Israel-Palestine: Can a one-state solution work?


Poll finds a third of Palestinians support the idea.




www.aljazeera.com





Al-Aqsa Masjid should be declared an 'international heritage site' in connection with one state solution.

-----

It is important to respect internationally recognized borders of (any) country.

Linking Ukraine to Palestine will solve nothing. It is not good and helpful to do politics over misery of others in my humble view.

Muslims should never condone and support unfair acts of aggression/oppression around the world. WE are answerable to Allah Almighty in the end.

Peaceful merger or expansion of a country is another thing.

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## Nuclear Clown

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You obviously do not know anything about the modern history of Palestine.
> Jews started immigrating to the area in the nineteenth century, and purchased land from rich Arabs to create farms. Some locals did not like the immigrants, we call such people ”racists” here, started attacking the new farms.
> They locals also complained to the Ottomans who found the complaint without merit. The Jews farmed land and paid their taxes. The Ottomans had no problems with such people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List of killings and massacres in Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


In fact, they bought from rich Turks, and most of the land belonged to the Ottoman empire, moreover, they also bought a lot of land in what later became Jordan where, yup, there was an Arab majority. Actually, Brits cheated everybody as they promised Syria to the Bani Hashem which was then ruling Hejaz (Mecca kingdom) but in //, they did the Sykes/Picot agreement with us, so, we ended with the Syria/Lebanon mandate, and, to compensate the Hashemites, the Brits did cut 77% of the mandate and gave "Arab Palestine" to them. 




In the "Israel" of 1918 the Brits took from the Turks at the battle of [Har]Megiddo (sounds familiar?), they did a census, there were less than 15,000 Arabs over a population of about 100k, half of them not even born there.In fact, even under Roman, then Arab occupation, there has always been a Jewish majority here. And, in 1918, despite settlers who had already brought improvements with western agriculture advances, it still was an absolute shithole, as Mark Twain related when he visited the Holy Land around 1867.

Prior to the mandate, the most of the attacks on settlers were orchestra by the Egyptian al-Husseini family the Turks had appointed as "wallis" of Jerusalem : 
They were selling public lands to the settlers then went to Beirut and hired hitmen to kill them, then, as they ruled the willayat, well, they sold these lands again and again and again... These made them the richest and most powerful family around.
They definitively lost this status when the Brits came, but, you know how the Brit ministry of colonies liked to put local dignitaries with some important charges to give a feel of autonomy, at the same time, the ministry liked to raise ethnic tensions in a divide'n'conquer pattern : they pushed Arabs against the Jews, Jews against the Arabs and all the moderate people relied on Brit police for protection!!! 
So, the Brits appointed Amin al-Husseini as grand mufti of Jerusalem then all hell let loose !!!
What followed on was this: 




It's sad that I found no English translation for a TMC (Monaco'TV) documentary named _Nazi-Jihad_ which is in French : they looked for what sourced the acts of looneys like ISIS, Hamas, etc, and they discovered Amin al-Husseini and his links to the Nazi regime as well to Hassan al Bana's Ikhwan (Hassan was also a buddy to Khomeini!) as well to his nephew Mohammed al-Husseini AKA Yasser Arafat. And guess who personally trained Arafat and his buddies into "modern" terrorism? *Waffen SS colonel Otto Skorzeny* !!! Hitler's black-ops man! Then Arafat and his then Ikhwan friends who later became Fatah trained the IRA, Hezbollah, and all the far-left terrorists of Europe during the years of lead [with Yuri Andropov's KGB support, BTW, Arafat and Abbas swtched from Ikhwan to KGB], while the Ikhwan hardliners in Israel later changed their name for Hamas. Hezbollah later trained al-Qaeda, ISIS is a Qaeda split... BTW, the Farsi translator for Hassan al Bana's huge hate litterature is... Ali Khamenei (!)
_Nazi-Jihad_ is the most jaw dropping documentary about terrorism I ever saw.

Now, ya all, it's interesting, and for sure, I like to discuss the subject as well as debunk the insane propaganda that sticks to this, but please, you all : 
Can't we stick to Ukraine here????I'd like to stop these digressions here!


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## beast89

Ukraine taking a battering, if Ziolensky paints a bad picture you know its much worse.

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## PakFactor

LeGenD said:


> Modern Israel became a reality in 1947 by virtue of the United Nations Resolution 181 (approved by 33 member states). Episodes of violence at the time were due to political effects of partition and relocations.
> 
> Partition violence was much worse in the subcontinent in fact.
> 
> The 1st Arab - Israel War was fought in 1948, and Israel gained more lands due to this war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This war was a bad decision (Arab miscalculation), and changed the political calculus and environment of the region.
> 
> The 2nd Arab - Israel War was fought in 1967, and Israel gained even more lands due to this war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How the 1967 war changed the shape of Israel
> 
> 
> A guide to the ABC of the conflict
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.economist.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel became bold and began to encroach on foreign lands since 1980. Religious fundamentalism had taken roots in the region by now. The encroachment was definitely wrong.
> 
> But things should move forward from here. OIC should contemplate one state solution now. It should be pitched to Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel-Palestine: Can a one-state solution work?
> 
> 
> Poll finds a third of Palestinians support the idea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Al-Aqsa Masjid should be declared an 'international heritage site' in connection with one state solution.
> 
> -----
> 
> It is important to respect internationally recognized borders of (any) country.
> 
> Linking Ukraine to Palestine will solve nothing. It is not good and helpful to do politics over misery of others in my humble view.
> 
> Muslims should never condone and support unfair acts of aggression/oppression around the world. WE are answerable to Allah Almighty in the end.
> 
> Peaceful merger or expansion of a country is another thing.



Palestinians should drop arms and join the Israeli state and give up this useless fighting. They are losing ground on a daily basis along with unnecessary loss of life with no gain. *The Arabs practically abandoned them.* Some even consider the Palestinians an undue burden. The Palestinians could have just outbreed the Jews and change the demographics in the next 50-100 years.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528785134962581508

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## Primus

Me watching this thread turn into a Palestine v Israel debate (somehow) 

(mad props to the amount of false propaganda certain users are putting up though 👍)

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## PakFactor

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528785134962581508



I agree with the twitter clown keep fighting and dying, I’m always afraid they’ll stop. Lol


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## Wergeland

LeGenD said:


> Modern Israel became a reality in 1947 by virtue of the United Nations Resolution 181 (approved by 33 member states). Episodes of violence at the time were due to political effects of partition and relocations.
> 
> Partition violence was much worse in the subcontinent in fact.
> 
> The 1st Arab - Israel War was fought in 1948, and Israel gained more lands due to this war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This war was a bad decision (Arab miscalculation), and changed the political calculus and environment of the region.
> 
> The 2nd Arab - Israel War was fought in 1967, and Israel gained even more lands due to this war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How the 1967 war changed the shape of Israel
> 
> 
> A guide to the ABC of the conflict
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.economist.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel became bold and began to encroach on foreign lands since 1980. Religious fundamentalism had taken roots in the region by now. The encroachment was definitely wrong.
> 
> But things should move forward from here. OIC should contemplate one state solution now. It should be pitched to Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel-Palestine: Can a one-state solution work?
> 
> 
> Poll finds a third of Palestinians support the idea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Al-Aqsa Masjid should be declared an 'international heritage site' in connection with one state solution.
> 
> -----
> 
> It is important to respect internationally recognized borders of (any) country.
> 
> Linking Ukraine to Palestine will solve nothing. It is not good and helpful to do politics over misery of others in my humble view.
> 
> Muslims should never condone and support unfair acts of aggression/oppression around the world. WE are answerable to Allah Almighty in the end.
> 
> Peaceful merger or expansion of a country is another thing.



Bro, i commend you for trying to be balanced and all that.

Let me say that, if more americans were principled like you on this matter, especially american jews, then there would be a lot less Palestinian suffering and we would have a separate Palestinian state long time ago.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528822506626367489




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528762884343349248


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## Hassan Al-Somal

So much winning for an army that blows up dams. If the Ukrainian army sees Donbass as their own territory and the people there as their own people, why are they blowing up dams that can flood the entire area? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528767685412016135

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## NotSure

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> Bayraktar TB2s have struck the Russian targets under the protection of S-400 in Ukraine. S-400 radar systems can't detect a TB2 for its slow and low physical movement is perfectly matched with its EW envelop associated traveling EM waves. Not to mention the highly effective sensor fusion supporting the optimized on-the-fly real-time computational capability including signal/image processing, finite element analysis, AI, deep learning etc....
> 
> All the vodka and tobacco in Europe can't help the Russian physicists and mathematicians...


Your "mighty Bayraktars" are dropping like flies. So fast, you can't even build them fast enough, with foreign parts you can't even produce yourself . Maybe The russians should rename the Pantsir to Fly Swatter. 

There is probably no weapon in the last 2 decades overhyped so much like this drone. And polluting your own post or the forum here with fancy buzzwords change nothing about this fact.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528828249127759872
> 
> Russian losses now over 3,900.
> 
> 4,000 approaching





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528780337349898240


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528822506626367489

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## Hassan Al-Somal

In West's new propaganda:

"*When surrendering is now called evacuating & retreats are now known as moving back to take better defensive positions. English is a constantly evolving language*."



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528822506626367489




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528762884343349248

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Vergennes

Failed chechen tiktok operation



Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528824144502173697


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528792170915844098

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528833444339499016


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528848223519088644


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## Hassan Al-Somal

*The main events of May 23
*
*Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry*

_*💥*_*High-precision, long-range sea-based missiles* have destroyed weapons and military equipment of the Ukrainian armed forces' 10th Mountain Assault Brigade from Ivano-Frankovsk that had been transferred to Donbass.

_*💥*_*High-precision air-based missiles *have hit *4* command posts, *1* communication centre of the North Task Force near Bakhmut in the Donetsk People's Republic, *48* areas of manpower and military equipment concentration, as well as *6 *ammunition depots

_*✈️💥*_*Operational-tactical and army aviation* have hit *39* areas of manpower and military equipment concentration and destroyed *1* ammunition depot

_*▫️*_The attacks have resulted in the elimination of more than *230* nationalists and up to *33* armoured and motor vehicles.

_*💥*_Russian *air defence means* shot down *3* *Su-25 aircraft *of the Ukrainian Air Force overnight

_*💥*_*Missile troops and artillery* have hit *73* command posts, *578* areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration, as well as *37* artillery and mortar units at firing positions.

*Dollar/Euro- Ruble exchange rate 

▫️*The *euro* exchange rate on the Moscow Exchange fell to *59 rubles* for the first time since June 2015
*
▫️*The strengthening of the ruble on May 23 reached its peak, the Ministry of Economic Development said

*Liberated territory* 

*▫️*Kherson region will completely abandon the hryvnia before the end of the year

*Mariupol

▫️"All prisoners from Azovstal are held in the DPR, they will be judged by a tribunal on the territory of the republic."

▫️*The *document*, which will determine how the *tribunal* will take place over Ukrainian nationalists who left the Mariupol Azovstal plant, *may appear within a month*

*Russia’s* *foreign policy*

_*▫️*_Russia will rely only on itself and those countries that have proven their reliability and do not "dance to someone else's tune," Lavrov said.

He noted that Russia should stop in any way dependent on the supply of anything from the West for critical industries.

According to Lavrov, Moscow in its further development should rely on partners in the Eurasian region.

_*▫️*_Lavrov: those who seek the defeat of Russia "on the battlefield" probably did not study well at school and do not know what Russia is

_*▫️*_Economic cooperation between Russia and China will gain momentum in the near future, as the West "takes the position of a dictator,"

*Kids in charge of world politics

▫️*Biden says the *US would defend Taiwan militarily* against an invasion by China.

_*▫️*_ White House officials said that Biden simply meant the US would provide military equipment to Taiwan, not send troops to defend the island if China attacks

_*▫️*_The *French government* is preparing to *introduce* new *subsidies for gasoline and food* to support the living standards of the population

_*▫️*_The *Swedish government* has decided to *increase military assistance to Ukraine

Zelensky from the mental health clinic 

▫️Zelenskyy* invited *countries and international companies* to take "_patronage_" over the regions of Ukraine for *restoration* after the end of hostilities.

_*▫️*_Zelensky is again ready to meet with Putin (before the defeat in the Donbass he was not ready) - "to end the war":

"I do not perceive any meeting with anyone from the Russian Federation, except for the President of the Russian Federation, even if there is one question - ending the war“

*International news* 

_*❗️*_The total amount of *deals* for the supply of *US arms to Taiwan* has already exceeded *$70 billion*

*Liman*

_*▫️*_The assault on the city began. Our troops entered from the north and began to occupy city blocks. Artillery and aviation have been working very actively since the morning. The enemy retreated to the southern part of the city. A large number of prisoners are reported.

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## WotTen

Raffie said:


> backing commie terrorists in India while attacking jawans at the border...



False flag Indian detected.



Raffie said:


> Now, ya all, it's interesting, and for sure, I like to discuss the subject as well as debunk the insane propaganda that sticks to this, but please, you all :



Indian confirmed.

The phrase "y'all" is spoken in the American South. It is rarely used in written speech, except for literary reasons. The ONLY people who use "y'all" in written speech are South Asians who are *desperate* to sound Western.

As for the rest of your babble, it is off-topic so I won't bother.

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## Corax

beast89 said:


> Ukraine taking a battering, if Ziolensky paints a bad picture you know its much worse.



If even the Nazi jewboy Zelenski is stating up to 100 Ukrainian Nazis are dying every day, you can probably double that figure for the actual amount. And according to that same footage, even the US state the Ukrainians have lost over 10,000 men. But the Nazi loving Ukrainian fanboys here don't even acknowledge Ukrainian losses, or don't care, as long as they're dying as cannon fodder for the Russians.

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## Hakwa Nadro

NotSure said:


> Your "mighty Bayraktars" are dropping like flies. So fast, you can't even build them fast enough, with foreign parts you can't even produce yourself . Maybe The russians should rename the Pantsir to Fly Swatter.
> 
> There is probably no weapon in the last 2 decades overhyped so much like this drone. And polluting your own post or the forum here with fancy buzzwords change nothing about this fact.


What a frustrated comment take a break @NotSure. Your frustration won't change anything


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528702218081378309

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528645329054224385


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## The SC

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Russia demanding all gas sales to Europe based on the Ruble has strengthened its currency. The West has frozen Russian assets in their financial institutions and imposed sanctions on Russia, thinking they would cripple the Russian economy.
> 
> In return, Putin demanded all Russian gas sales to Europe would be done based on the Ruble. He's also demanded all mineral and food sales to EU would be done on the Ruble as well. This is where the strength that you see on the Ruble comes from. Today, every transaction between Russia and EU and other countries, except China, is based on the Ruble.
> 
> He's also made deals with China, the largest economy in the world, where Russia is selling more hydrocarbons based on the Yuan. Having this trade outside of US Dollar and Euro is another blow against the "fiat money".
> 
> The English-speaking world's effort to kill the Nord Stream 2 pipeline has really backfired on them. It seems Ukraine and the rest of EU have chosen to be the sacrificial lamb here.
> 
> This war is about saving the "fiat money" and the system that suffocates many countries and peoples. It looks like Putin and his Russian nation are the ones who are successfully resisting it.


Well yes.. for Russia now..it is Gas-Ruble vs Petro-Dollar.. quite interesting ..

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528848223519088644





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528775135620173825


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528800636300664835

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528788235773743105


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528846615527804928

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528538239677571077


----------



## Titanium100




----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528747335265701893

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528684485700616199

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528737515472949253

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528831652553601024

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## The SC

US Secretary of Defense: *50* countries have agreed to send more advanced weapons to Ukraine, including a launcher for Harpoon missiles and missiles to protect its coasts
@SkyNewsArabia_B


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528794238963564545

Urgent | Dnipropetrovsk governor: the railway network in the Pavlograd and Senekiv regions was destroyed by Russian missile strikes
@AJABreaking

Russian Deputy Foreign Minister: It is possible to solve the food crisis if sanctions on Russia's exports are lifted
@AlArabiya_Brk




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528851755685056514

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## RoadAmerica

DF41 said:


> China's DF-17 Hypersonic Weapon: A Killer the U.S. Military Can't Match
> 
> 
> Beijing’s first hypersonic weapons system, the DF-17 stands as one of the most militarily consequential additions to the People’s Liberation Army’s missile roster in recent years. The DF-17 was first unveiled in 2013. It entered service in 2019—on the heels of at least nine tests—after making...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.19fortyfive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Sinking A US Aircraft Carrier’ – Beijing Conducts Massive Military Drills In South China Sea To Ward-Off US Navy
> 
> 
> ‘Sinking A US Aircraft Carrier’ – Beijing Conducts Massive Military Drills In South China Sea To Ward-Off US Navy ByEurAsian Times Desk April 2, 2022 Chinese state television aired footage on March 30, of day-and-night drills by the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) along the coasts of the East...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China’s DF-21D, DF-26 Anti-Ship Ballistic Missiles Could Trigger Mayhem On US Aircraft Carriers – CRS Report
> 
> 
> China’s DF-21D, DF-26 Anti-Ship Ballistic Missiles Could Trigger Mayhem On US Aircraft Carriers – CRS Report ByAshish Dangwal - March 23, 2022 Top US commanders believe China’s stockpile of anti-ship ballistic missiles (ASBMs) can strike moving targets, as per a March 8 Congressional Research...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More cold sweat for USA , and anyone else who want to tango with China
> 
> 
> More cold sweat for USA , and anyone else who want to tango with China New marine species: China’s world-first drone-carrying ship capable of anything to give cold sweat to would be tangoists And more likely than not, China got even more goodies that China being modest, will not even hint...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cold sweat at the NSA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Much more. And I guess even more China not revealing to the world as yet.
> 
> 
> And while USA trying to compete with Russia for laser power, China going to rip matter from empty space with laser.
> 
> https://www.space.com/39536-laser-china-rip-vacuum-antimatter.html
> Physicists are getting close to building lasers powerful enough to rip matter out of a vacuum.
> 
> 
> Remember China invented gunpowder primarily to make amusing fireworks to entertain themselves.
> 
> Same thing with laser, and more


What do you even contribute if substance? 
Mere propaganda


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528717121890488321
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russias-dead-hand.526112/


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528894006675005440


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## The SC

Economic relations between Russia and China will now strengthen faster because the West is in the position of dictator - Sergey Lavrov.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528840450802692096


----------



## The SC

Donbas Front Ukraine May 23 2022






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528812625114587139

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528821824620048384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528805575991218176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528807522588676096


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528806627314388994

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528804549456285698

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528806806436429825

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528811223399157761

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528790297773502464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528441632374374403

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528803075439345665

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528815633353293825

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## The SC

Ukraine loses largest arms convoy by Russian precision missiles







The Russian army bombed with long-range, high-precision missiles, launched from the Black Sea, the largest US-European arms deal before it reached the Ukrainian army fighting in the east of the country.

The shipment was on a train that was pulling dozens of wagons, and before it entered the railway station in the city of Malyn, northwest of Kyiv, Russian missiles hit it, destroying it, and subsequent explosions caused damage to more than 200 nearby buildings, as well as completely destroying another building, without causing any casualties among civilians. 

This was the statement of the city's mayor, Oleksandr Sytailo, and was reported by the Ukrainian News Agency. The received news spoke of a shipment carrying several modern armored vehicles, cannons and tanks, mostly American and German.

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MAY 23​May 23, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF
*
Kateryna Stepanenko, Karolina Hird, Mason Clark, and George Barros
May 23, 6:00 pm ET*​*Russian nationalist figures are increasingly criticizing the failures of Russia’s “special military operation” in Ukraine and are calling for further mobilization that the Kremlin likely remains unwilling and unable to pursue in the short term. *The All-Russian Officers Assembly, an independent pro-Russian veterans’ association that seeks to reform Russian military strategy, called for Russian President Vladimir Putin and the Kremlin to declare war on Ukraine and introduce partial mobilization in Russia on May 19.[1] The Assembly said that Russia’s “special military operation” failed to achieve its goals in three months, especially after the failed Siverskyi Donets River crossings. ISW previously assessed that the destruction of nearly an entire Russian battalion tactical group (BTG) during a failed river crossing on May 11 shocked Russian military observers and prompted them to question Russian competence.[2] The Assembly’s appeal called on Putin to recognize that Russian forces are no longer only “denazifying” Ukraine but are fighting a war for Russia’s historic territories and existence in the world order. The officers demanded that the Kremlin mobilize all regions bordering NATO countries (including Ukraine), form territorial defense squads, extend standard military service terms from one year to two, and form new supreme wartime administrations over Russia, the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DNR and LNR), and newly occupied Ukrainian settlements. The officers also demanded the death penalty for deserters.
*The Assembly’s letter may be a leading indicator of elements of the Russian government and society setting informational conditions to declare partial mobilization. However, the Kremlin has so far declined to take this step likely due to concerns over domestic backlash and flaws in Russia’s mobilization systems.[3] *The All-Russian Officers Assembly called on Putin to recognize the independence of the DNR and LNR three weeks prior to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, setting conditions for the Russian “special military operation.”*[4]* Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu announced on May 20 that Russia will form 12 new Western Military District units (of unspecified echelon) before the end of the year in response to NATO expansion.[5] Russian forces may intend to man these units with newly mobilized personnel, as it is unclear how else the Kremlin could generate the manpower for new units. The Ukrainian General Staff also reported that Russian forces are withdrawing old T-62 tanks from storage to form new BTGs.[6] Russia is likely continuing to exhaust its remaining combat-ready reserves to maintain the momentum of the Battle of Severodonetsk, rather than prioritizing preparations for new reinforcements. ISW previously assessed that Russian mobilization is unlikely to generate combat-ready force due to hasty training.[7]
*More Russians supportive of the Kremlin and the Russian invasion of Ukraine are beginning to criticize the Kremlin openly. *Russian milbloggers claimed that the Kremlin will not honor the Officers Assembly appeal, indicating an intensifying negative perception of the Russian leadership among Russians supportive of the war in Ukraine.[8] Kaliningrad Oblast Governor Anton Alikhanov publicly stated that the Russian war in Ukraine has disrupted transport routes and construction schedules in the region, a rare admission of the economic cost of the war from a Russian government official.[9] The Ukrainian General Staff also reported that Russian military personnel are increasingly complaining about the ineffectiveness of offensive operations against Ukrainian troops.[10]
*Unidentified assailants continued attacks against military recruitment offices in Russia on May 23, indicating growing discontent with conscription.[11] *A Russian Telegram channel reported that an unknown attacker threw a Molotov cocktail at the military recruitment office in the Udmurtia region, which follows a May 19 incident wherein a Russian conscript shot at a recruitment office in Zheleznogorsk-Ilimsky (Irkutsk Oblast) with a pneumatic device.[12] The Ukrainian General Staff previously reported that 12 total attacks on recruitment offices have happened since the beginning of the war, with five happening in the past few weeks alone.[13] These attacks may represent growing domestic discontent with conscription and recruitment practices.
*The UK Ministry of Defense reported that Russia has suffered a similar death toll within the first three months of the invasion of Ukraine as was experienced by the Soviet Union over the course of nine years in Afghanistan.*[14] The British Ministry of Defense stated that a combination of poor low-level tactics, poor air defense, lack of operational flexibility, and poor command methods have resulted in repeated mistakes and failures, which are continuing to be evident in Donbas. The report noted that the Russian public is sensitive to high casualty numbers, and assessed that as casualties suffered in Ukraine grow and become harder to conceal, public dissatisfaction will increase.
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian nationalist figures (including veterans and military commentators) are increasingly criticizing the failures of Russia’s “special military operation” in Ukraine and are calling for further mobilization that the Kremlin likely remains unwilling and unable to pursue in the short term.*
*Russian forces around Izyum increased their tempo of air and artillery strikes and likely intend to attempt to resume stalled offensive operations in the coming days.*
*Russian operations to encircle Severodonetsk made minor gains in the past 24 hours, driving north through Zolote. Fighting is ongoing in Lyman (north of Severodonetsk) as Russian forces attempt to cut off Ukrainian supply lines*
*Russian forces will likely make further minor gains west of Popasna in the near future but are unlikely to be able to quickly seize Bakhmut.*
*The Ukrainian counteroffensive northeast of Kharkiv continues to threaten Russian positions and is forcing Russia to pull units from ongoing offensive operations in eastern Ukraine to shore up their defensive positions near Vovchansk.*
*

*
*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate main effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
Supporting effort 1—Mariupol;
Supporting effort 2—Kharkiv City;
Supporting effort 3—Southern axis.
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces intensified air and artillery strikes southeast of Izyum on May 23 in preparation for intended resumed offensive operations towards Slovyansk. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that unspecified elements of Russia’s Western, Central, and Eastern Military Districts, along with the 11th Army Corps of the Baltic Fleet, are preparing to resume attacks toward Slovyansk.[15] Russian forces conducted artillery strikes and reconnoitered Ukrainian positions southeast of Izyum around Dibrove, Virnopillya, Bogorodichne, Husarivka, Chepil, Dolyna, Studenok, and Sviatorhirsk.[16] The Ukrainian General Staff noted that Russian forces attempted an unsuccessful ground assault on Dovhenke, about 20 km southeast of Izyum.[17] The Ukrainian General Staff additionally stated that Russian forces are strengthening the police-administrative regime in northeastern Kharkiv Oblast, likely to consolidate control of Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) that run south to Izyum against possible Ukrainian partisan actions.[18]



Russian forces continued ground assaults around Severodonetsk and made marginal gains to encircle the city on May 23.[19] Russian sources claimed that Russian troops cleared the settlement of Shchedryshcheve, directly northeast of Severodonetsk, and are fighting on the outskirts of the city.[20] Russian forces reportedly stormed Zolote and took control of the entry points to the city, which would allow them to push northward and complete the encirclement of Severodonetsk from the south.[21] The Ukrainian Defense Ministry reported that Russian forces are attempting to break through Ukrainian defenses around Popasna, specifically around Toshkivka, Komyshuvakha, Nyrkove, Vasylivka, Nova Kamyanka, and Myronivsky, in a likely attempt to push westward toward Bakhmut.[22] Ukrainian forces reportedly withdrew westward from Volodymyrivka to Soledar, indicating that Russian forces are advancing westward from Popasna, as opposed to prioritizing a northward push toward Severodonetsk.[23] Russian forces additionally made gains near the Donetsk-Luhansk administrative border and took control of Mironovsky, southeast of Bakhmut.[24] The capture of Mironovsky will enable further attempts to drive toward Bakhmut from both the south and west. However, Russian forces are unlikely to be able to capture Bakhmut quickly (if at all) based on their past performance in urban terrain in eastern Ukraine.
Russian forces intensified offensive operations around Lyman and Avdiivka and made gains on May 23. Unconfirmed reports suggest that Russian forces have launched an assault on the northern part of Lyman and have taken at least partial control of the city as of May 23.[25] Russian forces additionally intensified artillery strikes against Avdiivka and are likely taking advantage of their previous capture of Novoselivka in order to advance on Avdiivka and gain highway access toward Slovyansk.[26]



*Supporting Effort #1—Mariupol (Russian objective: Capture Mariupol and reduce the Ukrainian defenders)*
Russian defense officials stated that Russian and proxy forces continued to demine the Azovstal Steel Plant on May 23.[27] Russian military Telegram bloggers criticized a video of Russian servicemen reportedly carrying out ground assaults on Azovstal on May 22 and stated that they should have waited for the remaining Ukrainian forces to surrender.[28] Russian milbloggers said that Russian forces did not attempt further assaults on May 23, but suggested that Russian military commanders continue to disregard servicemen’s lives in favor of the total capture of the Azovstal plant. ISW cannot independently confirm the number of remaining Ukrainian defenders in Azovstal. Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) Head Denis Pushilin claimed that Ukrainian defenders who already surrendered are awaiting trials in detention centers in occupied Donetsk Oblast.[29]
Russian national (as opposed to DNR proxy) occupation authorities continued to strengthen their bureaucratic control over Mariupol, signaling a shift away from administrative control by DNR forces. Mariupol Mayor’s Advisor Petro Andryushenko reported that “volunteers” from Russia are assisting filtration efforts and Chechen units are patrolling highways from Mariupol into the Ukrainian-controlled areas of Zaporizhia Oblast.[30]
*Supporting Effort #2—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces focused on maintaining their positions north of Kharkiv City on May 23.[31] The Ukrainian Defense Ministry noted that unspecified elements of the Russian 6th and 41st Combined Arms Armies, Baltic Fleet, and (for the first time) the 1st and 2nd Army Corps are operating in the area to prevent Ukrainian troops from further advances.[32] The 1st and 2nd Army Corps are the armed forces of the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics, respectively. The redeployment of DNR and LNR troops away from their previous positions conducting frontal assaults in eastern Ukraine to northern Kharkiv to hold defensive lines against the Ukrainian counteroffensive indicates Russia’s prioritization of slowing the Ukrainian counteroffensive, at the cost of reinforcing Russian offensive operations in the east. A pro-Russian source reported that Russian forces are still fighting in Lytpsi and Rubizhne (in Kharkiv Oblast, not Luhansk Oblast), which is consistent with previous claims that Russian troops were able to regain some ground to the north of Kharkiv City.*[33]* Russian forces continued to shell Kharkiv City and its environs throughout May 23.[34]



*Supporting Effort #3—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces continued to set conditions to establish permanent control and resume offensive operations in southern Ukraine on May 23. The Zaporizhia Oblast Military Administration reported that Russian forces are accumulating troops in Vasylivka—approximately 80 km south of Zaporizhia City and east of the Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant (NPP) in Enerhodar.[35] Russian forces likely seek to consolidate their control of the Zaporizhia NPP and mitigate the threat of Ukrainian counteroffensives in Zaporizhia Oblast. The Ukrainian General Staff stated that Russia is deploying two additional S-400 anti-aircraft missile battalions to northwestern Crimea to reinforce air defenses against any possible Ukrainian counterattacks[36] The Ukrainian military also reported that Russian forces are fortifying their frontiers in Kherson and Mykolaiv oblasts.[37]



*Immediate items to watch*

Russian forces are likely reinforcing their grouping north of Kharkiv City to prevent further advances of the Ukrainian counteroffensive toward the Russian border. Russan forces may commit elements of the 1st Tank Army to Northern Kharkiv in the near future.
The Russians will continue efforts to encircle Severodonetsk and Lysychansk at least from the south, possibly by focusing on cutting off the last highway connecting Severodonetsk-Lysychansk with the rest of Ukraine.
Russian forces in Mariupol will likely shift their focus to occupational control of the city as the siege of Azovstal has concluded.
Russian forces are likely preparing for Ukrainian counteroffensives and settling in for protracted operations in southern Ukraine.

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## The SC

In Vinnytsia they said goodbye to the dead Su-24M crew.
Eternal memory to the Aviators!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528745062657581063

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528773685502431232

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528838294490030080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528834316532436993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528834318704967682

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528823365607333889


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528819551311364098

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528776654239285250

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528780501632356352

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528767685412016135

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528762884343349248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528758800228007937

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528755345597800448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528752625079967747


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528659148388417537

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528629729665855489

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528784429073694721

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528702296753856513

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528728339661303808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528702913316544513

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528767336190205957






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528732727180132352

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528729103628750848

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528722753880301570

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528694440969265154


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528675004023439361

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528667879700414466

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528900765318025216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528869303264907264


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## sammuel

LeGenD said:


> One state solution looks feasible now - the original British Palestine. Two state solution is lost cause in my view.



Not on topic but since it was brought up.

Two state peace solution was almost achieved in 1995 after the Oslo accords. It was an historical opportunity , that now we see does not come very often. 

Today we do not have any more , one unified Palestinian leadership , to sign such an agreement with.

~


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528811547979665409

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528737229077610499

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528684185984155648


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528771997777416193

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528721372008316928

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528784707844030464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528833456926498816

Urgent | A Western official told Reuters: Any safe passage to allow ships to take grain out of Odessa would need Russian approval
@AlainBRK


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> The partisans have killed several high ranking military officials of Russian army at Mariupol.
> As reaction Russian army announces increased scan search of private cars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WELT live +++ Guerillakämpfer töten ranghohe russische Offiziere +++ WELT-Sondersendung - Video - WELT
> 
> 
> Ukrainische Guerillakämpfer sollen in Melitopol mehrere ranghohe russische Offiziere getötet haben. Die russische Armee habe darauf Kontrollen von Privatautos verschärft, teilte die Verwaltung der südukrainischen Stadt mit. Verfolgen Sie alle Entwicklungen hier und im TV.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.welt.de


Melitopol, not Mariupol, Melitopol felt early in the war, IIRC it felt around 3 or 4 March.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528946696696172544


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## Soldier35

The work of the 2S5 self-propelled gun "Hyacinth-S" combat crew in Ukraine was shown by the Russian Defense Ministry. The 2S5 self-propelled gun was adopted in 1975 and received the nickname "Genocide" for its high efficiency and reliability. Unlike other self-propelled guns, Hyacinth was not supplied to the USSR in any country in the world.






The servicemen of the 58th Motorized Infantry Brigade of Ukraine appealed to Vladimir Zelensky with a statement of refusal to fight further. According to them, many of them have never held weapons in their hands in their lives, they do not have ammunition, weapons and food, and therefore they refuse to carry out combat missions.






In an attempt to stop the offensive of the Russian army, the Ukrainian army tried to blow up the dam of the Uglegorsk thermal power plant reservoir while the dam stood. In case of its breakthrough, the water can flood three settlements – Svetlodarsk, Mironovsky and Lugansk with a population of 15,000 people.

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## Viet

Raffie said:


> Putler wanted to break NATO, now it's CSO that is falling apart
> Except Isengard (Belarus), no CSO countries backed the invasion at the UNGA vote.
> My 2 cents Armenia may seek closer links with the west soon : I don't think they liked Putin's idling in the 2020 conflict with Azeris...
> If Kazakhstan gets out of Russian orbit, it would be devastating for Russian space industry!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India is pulling out of Russosphere!! They're done with Russian weaponry scams! I let you imagine the face of their infantry personnel watching turret-throwing contests in Ukraine! Even if it's not generalized, they're starting to get that Putin's kleptocracy is not the Soviet Union, that despite implying in BRICS, SCO, uncle-Xi goes on with backing commie terrorists in India while attacking jawans at the border...
> 
> Now look at India's arms inventory : even if there are still purchases as they're still highly dependant on Russian equipment, they enhance it with western systems, they're #1 client to Russia, but to Israel too, we (EU, especially France) and Brits have a huge market share, and the Yanks entered the market and weight about 15% now!!! India even got a waiver on S-400 while Turkey is NATO [at least on paper: ErdoGollum is getting on everybody's nerves for a while] got sanctioned!
> 
> When it comes to China, remember that they abstained at the UNGA votes... In fact, with the total war Putler is doing in Ukraine, a real backing is unlikely : it's DEFINITIVELY NOT their interest to support... Moreover, even if they can get cheap oil/gas from it, China, and even Mongolia, have large shale oil basins, and over $50 the Brent barrel, fracking is profitable... So, if Putin wants to sell oil or gas, it'll be far under the market price!!! Then, You can always win a bet on one thing: China prefers money to politics, and the volume of trade with Russia is insignificant compared to the trade with USA and EU which is what made China becoming rich, as well as it has also already induced huge growth in India or Indonesia, even if it's more recent...
> 
> The more likely is that PRC may manage this just like with some other pariah states, e.g. North Korea, which, BTW, could easily change its status : it wouldn't take more than US/EU recognising its nuclear status and getting that its greatly US fault if they're a bit paranoid, Frankly, what MacArthur did there deserved a Nuremberg-styled trial, but well, few of us were here when it happened and it'd certainly be feasible to get over it now... After Trump engaged the dialogue for the 1st time ever, IMHO, there might be something workable to do, it may take time (probably 2-3 decades) but a kind of Korean federal state would be feasible rather fast, then going into a full merge. It would even be funny if they considered a kind of Brit-like monarchy where KJU family would get a kind of historical special status as a reward for helping reunification, moreover, the NoKo aesthetics would surely sell for tourism, the fact pot is legal too


Interesting story with Kazakhstan
People would assume the country is a Russian stooge it will do everything what Putin orders, however it’s not. Its doing the opposite.
Kazakhstan even said it will abide by Western sanctions against Moscow.

Just a matter of time Putin will accuse them nazi sympathetic. And tanks rolling.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528840628695703559

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528943731100921857

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528941356210458626

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## Hassan Al-Somal

TruthSeeker said:


> RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MAY 23​May 23, 2022 - Press ISW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Download the PDF
> 
> *Kateryna Stepanenko, Karolina Hird, Mason Clark, and George Barros
> May 23, 6:00 pm ET*​*Russian nationalist figures are increasingly criticizing the failures of Russia’s “special military operation” in Ukraine and are calling for further mobilization that the Kremlin likely remains unwilling and unable to pursue in the short term. *The All-Russian Officers Assembly, an independent pro-Russian veterans’ association that seeks to reform Russian military strategy, called for Russian President Vladimir Putin and the Kremlin to declare war on Ukraine and introduce partial mobilization in Russia on May 19.[1] The Assembly said that Russia’s “special military operation” failed to achieve its goals in three months, especially after the failed Siverskyi Donets River crossings. ISW previously assessed that the destruction of nearly an entire Russian battalion tactical group (BTG) during a failed river crossing on May 11 shocked Russian military observers and prompted them to question Russian competence.[2] The Assembly’s appeal called on Putin to recognize that Russian forces are no longer only “denazifying” Ukraine but are fighting a war for Russia’s historic territories and existence in the world order. The officers demanded that the Kremlin mobilize all regions bordering NATO countries (including Ukraine), form territorial defense squads, extend standard military service terms from one year to two, and form new supreme wartime administrations over Russia, the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DNR and LNR), and newly occupied Ukrainian settlements. The officers also demanded the death penalty for deserters.
> *The Assembly’s letter may be a leading indicator of elements of the Russian government and society setting informational conditions to declare partial mobilization. However, the Kremlin has so far declined to take this step likely due to concerns over domestic backlash and flaws in Russia’s mobilization systems.[3] *The All-Russian Officers Assembly called on Putin to recognize the independence of the DNR and LNR three weeks prior to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, setting conditions for the Russian “special military operation.”*[4]* Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu announced on May 20 that Russia will form 12 new Western Military District units (of unspecified echelon) before the end of the year in response to NATO expansion.[5] Russian forces may intend to man these units with newly mobilized personnel, as it is unclear how else the Kremlin could generate the manpower for new units. The Ukrainian General Staff also reported that Russian forces are withdrawing old T-62 tanks from storage to form new BTGs.[6] Russia is likely continuing to exhaust its remaining combat-ready reserves to maintain the momentum of the Battle of Severodonetsk, rather than prioritizing preparations for new reinforcements. ISW previously assessed that Russian mobilization is unlikely to generate combat-ready force due to hasty training.[7]
> *More Russians supportive of the Kremlin and the Russian invasion of Ukraine are beginning to criticize the Kremlin openly. *Russian milbloggers claimed that the Kremlin will not honor the Officers Assembly appeal, indicating an intensifying negative perception of the Russian leadership among Russians supportive of the war in Ukraine.[8] Kaliningrad Oblast Governor Anton Alikhanov publicly stated that the Russian war in Ukraine has disrupted transport routes and construction schedules in the region, a rare admission of the economic cost of the war from a Russian government official.[9] The Ukrainian General Staff also reported that Russian military personnel are increasingly complaining about the ineffectiveness of offensive operations against Ukrainian troops.[10]
> *Unidentified assailants continued attacks against military recruitment offices in Russia on May 23, indicating growing discontent with conscription.[11] *A Russian Telegram channel reported that an unknown attacker threw a Molotov cocktail at the military recruitment office in the Udmurtia region, which follows a May 19 incident wherein a Russian conscript shot at a recruitment office in Zheleznogorsk-Ilimsky (Irkutsk Oblast) with a pneumatic device.[12] The Ukrainian General Staff previously reported that 12 total attacks on recruitment offices have happened since the beginning of the war, with five happening in the past few weeks alone.[13] These attacks may represent growing domestic discontent with conscription and recruitment practices.
> *The UK Ministry of Defense reported that Russia has suffered a similar death toll within the first three months of the invasion of Ukraine as was experienced by the Soviet Union over the course of nine years in Afghanistan.*[14] The British Ministry of Defense stated that a combination of poor low-level tactics, poor air defense, lack of operational flexibility, and poor command methods have resulted in repeated mistakes and failures, which are continuing to be evident in Donbas. The report noted that the Russian public is sensitive to high casualty numbers, and assessed that as casualties suffered in Ukraine grow and become harder to conceal, public dissatisfaction will increase.
> *Key Takeaways*
> 
> *Russian nationalist figures (including veterans and military commentators) are increasingly criticizing the failures of Russia’s “special military operation” in Ukraine and are calling for further mobilization that the Kremlin likely remains unwilling and unable to pursue in the short term.*
> *Russian forces around Izyum increased their tempo of air and artillery strikes and likely intend to attempt to resume stalled offensive operations in the coming days.*
> *Russian operations to encircle Severodonetsk made minor gains in the past 24 hours, driving north through Zolote. Fighting is ongoing in Lyman (north of Severodonetsk) as Russian forces attempt to cut off Ukrainian supply lines*
> *Russian forces will likely make further minor gains west of Popasna in the near future but are unlikely to be able to quickly seize Bakhmut.*
> *The Ukrainian counteroffensive northeast of Kharkiv continues to threaten Russian positions and is forcing Russia to pull units from ongoing offensive operations in eastern Ukraine to shore up their defensive positions near Vovchansk.*
> *
> 
> *
> *We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*
> 
> Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
> Subordinate main effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
> Supporting effort 1—Mariupol;
> Supporting effort 2—Kharkiv City;
> Supporting effort 3—Southern axis.
> *Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
> Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
> Russian forces intensified air and artillery strikes southeast of Izyum on May 23 in preparation for intended resumed offensive operations towards Slovyansk. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that unspecified elements of Russia’s Western, Central, and Eastern Military Districts, along with the 11th Army Corps of the Baltic Fleet, are preparing to resume attacks toward Slovyansk.[15] Russian forces conducted artillery strikes and reconnoitered Ukrainian positions southeast of Izyum around Dibrove, Virnopillya, Bogorodichne, Husarivka, Chepil, Dolyna, Studenok, and Sviatorhirsk.[16] The Ukrainian General Staff noted that Russian forces attempted an unsuccessful ground assault on Dovhenke, about 20 km southeast of Izyum.[17] The Ukrainian General Staff additionally stated that Russian forces are strengthening the police-administrative regime in northeastern Kharkiv Oblast, likely to consolidate control of Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) that run south to Izyum against possible Ukrainian partisan actions.[18]
> 
> 
> 
> Russian forces continued ground assaults around Severodonetsk and made marginal gains to encircle the city on May 23.[19] Russian sources claimed that Russian troops cleared the settlement of Shchedryshcheve, directly northeast of Severodonetsk, and are fighting on the outskirts of the city.[20] Russian forces reportedly stormed Zolote and took control of the entry points to the city, which would allow them to push northward and complete the encirclement of Severodonetsk from the south.[21] The Ukrainian Defense Ministry reported that Russian forces are attempting to break through Ukrainian defenses around Popasna, specifically around Toshkivka, Komyshuvakha, Nyrkove, Vasylivka, Nova Kamyanka, and Myronivsky, in a likely attempt to push westward toward Bakhmut.[22] Ukrainian forces reportedly withdrew westward from Volodymyrivka to Soledar, indicating that Russian forces are advancing westward from Popasna, as opposed to prioritizing a northward push toward Severodonetsk.[23] Russian forces additionally made gains near the Donetsk-Luhansk administrative border and took control of Mironovsky, southeast of Bakhmut.[24] The capture of Mironovsky will enable further attempts to drive toward Bakhmut from both the south and west. However, Russian forces are unlikely to be able to capture Bakhmut quickly (if at all) based on their past performance in urban terrain in eastern Ukraine.
> Russian forces intensified offensive operations around Lyman and Avdiivka and made gains on May 23. Unconfirmed reports suggest that Russian forces have launched an assault on the northern part of Lyman and have taken at least partial control of the city as of May 23.[25] Russian forces additionally intensified artillery strikes against Avdiivka and are likely taking advantage of their previous capture of Novoselivka in order to advance on Avdiivka and gain highway access toward Slovyansk.[26]
> 
> 
> 
> *Supporting Effort #1—Mariupol (Russian objective: Capture Mariupol and reduce the Ukrainian defenders)*
> Russian defense officials stated that Russian and proxy forces continued to demine the Azovstal Steel Plant on May 23.[27] Russian military Telegram bloggers criticized a video of Russian servicemen reportedly carrying out ground assaults on Azovstal on May 22 and stated that they should have waited for the remaining Ukrainian forces to surrender.[28] Russian milbloggers said that Russian forces did not attempt further assaults on May 23, but suggested that Russian military commanders continue to disregard servicemen’s lives in favor of the total capture of the Azovstal plant. ISW cannot independently confirm the number of remaining Ukrainian defenders in Azovstal. Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) Head Denis Pushilin claimed that Ukrainian defenders who already surrendered are awaiting trials in detention centers in occupied Donetsk Oblast.[29]
> Russian national (as opposed to DNR proxy) occupation authorities continued to strengthen their bureaucratic control over Mariupol, signaling a shift away from administrative control by DNR forces. Mariupol Mayor’s Advisor Petro Andryushenko reported that “volunteers” from Russia are assisting filtration efforts and Chechen units are patrolling highways from Mariupol into the Ukrainian-controlled areas of Zaporizhia Oblast.[30]
> *Supporting Effort #2—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
> Russian forces focused on maintaining their positions north of Kharkiv City on May 23.[31] The Ukrainian Defense Ministry noted that unspecified elements of the Russian 6th and 41st Combined Arms Armies, Baltic Fleet, and (for the first time) the 1st and 2nd Army Corps are operating in the area to prevent Ukrainian troops from further advances.[32] The 1st and 2nd Army Corps are the armed forces of the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics, respectively. The redeployment of DNR and LNR troops away from their previous positions conducting frontal assaults in eastern Ukraine to northern Kharkiv to hold defensive lines against the Ukrainian counteroffensive indicates Russia’s prioritization of slowing the Ukrainian counteroffensive, at the cost of reinforcing Russian offensive operations in the east. A pro-Russian source reported that Russian forces are still fighting in Lytpsi and Rubizhne (in Kharkiv Oblast, not Luhansk Oblast), which is consistent with previous claims that Russian troops were able to regain some ground to the north of Kharkiv City.*[33]* Russian forces continued to shell Kharkiv City and its environs throughout May 23.[34]
> 
> 
> 
> *Supporting Effort #3—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
> Russian forces continued to set conditions to establish permanent control and resume offensive operations in southern Ukraine on May 23. The Zaporizhia Oblast Military Administration reported that Russian forces are accumulating troops in Vasylivka—approximately 80 km south of Zaporizhia City and east of the Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant (NPP) in Enerhodar.[35] Russian forces likely seek to consolidate their control of the Zaporizhia NPP and mitigate the threat of Ukrainian counteroffensives in Zaporizhia Oblast. The Ukrainian General Staff stated that Russia is deploying two additional S-400 anti-aircraft missile battalions to northwestern Crimea to reinforce air defenses against any possible Ukrainian counterattacks[36] The Ukrainian military also reported that Russian forces are fortifying their frontiers in Kherson and Mykolaiv oblasts.[37]
> 
> 
> 
> *Immediate items to watch*
> 
> Russian forces are likely reinforcing their grouping north of Kharkiv City to prevent further advances of the Ukrainian counteroffensive toward the Russian border. Russan forces may commit elements of the 1st Tank Army to Northern Kharkiv in the near future.
> The Russians will continue efforts to encircle Severodonetsk and Lysychansk at least from the south, possibly by focusing on cutting off the last highway connecting Severodonetsk-Lysychansk with the rest of Ukraine.
> Russian forces in Mariupol will likely shift their focus to occupational control of the city as the siege of Azovstal has concluded.
> Russian forces are likely preparing for Ukrainian counteroffensives and settling in for protracted operations in southern Ukraine.



This is everything you need to know about the ISW:

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Melitopol, not Mariupol, Melitopol felt early in the war, IIRC it felt around 3 or 4 March.


Same same but different
Yes you are correct it’s a different city.


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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> This is everything you need to know about the ISW:
> 
> View attachment 847103


And? Who cares?

If you can't dispute what they say, you automatically resort to character assassination and conspiracy theories.

Nice try, but everyone with a brain knows what you're doing, and just how dumb it is.

The copium level of Russian supporters is now on a scale never seen before.

The Russians have lost 2 major battles, and have won only minor battles. Their gains have been at the cost of heavy losses. They simply cannot sustain these losses.

If the Russians don't stop Putin from making key military decisions, they're going to lose. You NEVER let a spy make war plan, ever.


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Same same but different
> Yes you are correct it’s a different city.


lol there was an active insurgency in Melitopol since they kidnapped the mayor back in March. This is nothing new.

Mariupol may have an insurgency soon, Russia is setting up Occupation.


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## Viet

That Guy said:


> And? Who cares?
> 
> If you can't dispute what they say, you automatically resort to character assassination and conspiracy theories.
> 
> Nice try, but everyone with a brain knows what you're doing, and just how dumb it is.
> 
> The copium level of Russian worshippers is now on a scale never seen before.
> 
> The Russians have lost 2 major battles, and have won only minor battles. Their gains have been at the cost of heavy losses. They simply cannot sustain these losses.
> 
> If the Russians don't stop Putin from making key military decisions, they're going to lose. You NEVER let a spy make war plan, ever.


Putin hordes are a bunch of hooligans, rapists, and thieves. Camouflaged as Nazi hunters.





A satellite image from Maxar technologies shows grain being loaded into the hull of the Russia-flagged ship Matros Pozynich in Crimea. (Satellite image ©2022 Maxar Technologies

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528953116611182592


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528868346208260096


----------



## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528788235773743105


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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528815633353293825






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528946696696172544





.

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## NotSure

Hakwa Nadro said:


> What a frustrated comment take a break @NotSure. Your frustration won't change anything


Yeah, i am so frustrated:

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## The SC

DF41 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528815633353293825
> View attachment 847114
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528946696696172544
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .

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## Bengal71

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528946696696172544




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528674096724189187
Is this for real or fake?

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528991112257470472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528873834803507200


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528959968665378817

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528669587092430849


----------



## wahhab0202

Assuming this news is true, does it have a strategical impact to this armed conflict between Russia vs Ukraine?

Another question, does this mean Ukraine or what is left of Ukraine would be handed over to Poland to take care of?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528400809519632386

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529009677211664385


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529033216912400384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529041792007655424


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529017714831917056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529014901351813120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529014516029210625


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529003958722871297

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## sammuel

~


Just to remind what sort of regime we are dealing with here :

Russian court rejects appeal of jailed Kremlin critic Navalny​









A Moscow court on Tuesday threw out jailed Kremlin critic Alexei Navalny's appeal against a nine-year prison sentence that he and his allies condemn as politically motivated.

Moscow City Court ruled to "leave the sentence without changes" and for it to enter into force immediately. This meant that Navalny will be transferred to a strict regime prison colony to serve out his term, after he was found guilty in March of embezzlement and contempt of court, charges he denies.

Navalny, by far Russia's most prominent opposition figure, was handed the nine-year jail term in March in addition to the two-and-half years he is already serving. Navalny maintains the charges against him were fabricated to thwart his political ambitions.

The ruling came after a live court hearing on Tuesday, when Navalny lambasted Russian President Vladimir Putin, casting him as a madman who had started a "stupid war" in Ukraine based on lies.

"This is a stupid war which your Putin started," Navalny, 45, told the court via video link from a corrective penal colony. "This war was built on lies."


'One madman has got his claws into Ukraine'​
Repeatedly interrupted by the judge, Navalny cast the prosecution's "facts" as "lies" – and compared them to the lies he said Putin, Russia's paramount leader since the last day of 1999, had used to launch the February 24 invasion of Ukraine.

"What do you want to achieve? Do you want short-term control, to fight with future generations, fight for the future of Russia?" Navalny asked the court. "You will all suffer historic defeat."

Navalny said Putin's Russia was run by thieves and criminals who had become enemies of the Russian people.

"One madman has got his claws into Ukraine and I do not know what he wants to do with it, this crazy thief," Navalny said of Putin.

The Kremlin has repeatedly dismissed Navalny's claims about Putin, who it says has won numerous fair elections in Russia since 2000 and remains by far the country's most popular politician. It has dismissed Navalny's claim that Putin is corrupt as nonsense.

Putin says the "special military operation" in Ukraine is necessary to demilitarise and "denazify" the country, and because the US was using Ukraine to threaten Russia through NATO enlargement and Moscow had to defend against the persecution of Russian-speaking people.

Ukraine and its Western allies reject these as baseless pretexts to invade a sovereign country.











Russian court rejects appeal of jailed Kremlin critic Navalny


A Moscow court on Tuesday threw out jailed Kremlin critic Alexei Navalny's appeal against a nine-year prison sentence that he and his allies condemn as politically motivated.




www.france24.com





~

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529050181664112640

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529002615568220161


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529039095997280257

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529046498511572992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529047353621200900


----------



## dBSPL

Russian defense ministry: 

Since the beginning of the war, we have shot down 995 drones and 178 warplanes.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529048430030594048


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529080607753527296

Russia now with more than 4,000 losses

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528907746971684864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528907749521776640

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528907750960414721

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528907754756354048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528907759588188160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528907762029174787

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528907763568492548

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528907764881362945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528907766164766721

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528907767502852097

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528907768731688961

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528907770338197507

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528907771898384384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528907773202800640

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528907774528303105

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528907775841026053

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528907777086734336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528907778328346624

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528907779754315776

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> lol there was an active insurgency in Melitopol since they kidnapped the mayor back in March. This is nothing new.
> 
> Mariupol may have an insurgency soon, Russia is setting up Occupation.


Putin expects Ukraine people coming with flowers. Well not in this life obviously. great Ukrainian counteroffensive coming as soon as mid June.

Ukraine to launch counteroffensive by mid-June: Zelenskyy aide​Arms deliveries from U.S., Europe enable fight back against Russian troops





Ukrainian presidential aide Oleksiy Arestovich speaks during an online interview with Nikkei Asia on May 1. (Photo courtesy of Ukrainian Presidential Office)

RINTARO HOSOKAWA, Nikkei staff writerMay 2, 2022 15:04 JSTUpdated on May 2, 2022 19:07 JST
VIENNA -- Ukraine will be able to go on the offensive against Russia between late May and mid-June, thanks to weapons supplied by the U.S. and European countries, an adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has said.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Russian diplomat Boris Bondarev resigns over Ukraine war, saying he has 'never been so ashamed of my country' - and fears for his safety​Boris Bondarev, who worked for Russia's permanent mission at the UN in Geneva, said what his government was doing was "intolerable", adding: "As a civil servant, I have to carry a share of responsibility for that, and I don't want to do that."​




Boris Bondarev said Russian diplomats 'have to keep their mouths shut'
Why you can trust Sky News
A veteran Russian diplomat has said he is concerned about his safety after he resigned over what he called the "disaster" of his nation's invasion of Ukraine.
Boris Bondarev, 41, said he had "never been so ashamed of my country" and the "aggressive war" waged by President Vladimir Putin's forces.
He said what his government was doing was "intolerable".
Mr Bondarev, who worked for the country's permanent mission at the United Nations in Geneva, added: "As a civil servant, I have to carry a share of responsibility for that, and I don't want to do that."
*Putin 'survived assassination attempt' - latest updates on Ukraine war*
He said he "disagreed" and "disapproved" with the current policy by Moscow and "as a Russian diplomat, (I) can no longer be associated with this".
"I went to the mission like any other Monday morning and I forwarded my resignation letter and I walked out."
More on Russia​Related Topics:​He spoke of his fears, saying: "Against my safety... yes, I'm concerned about that, yeah. There is a possibility, I think so."
It is a rare political resignation over the war, which began three months ago.
Asked if any of his colleagues felt the same, Mr Bondarev said: "Not all Russian diplomats are warmongering. They are reasonable, but they have to keep their mouths shut."




Mr Bondarev said what his government was doing was 'intolerable'
Mr Bondarev, who worked as a counsellor on arms control, suggested others could be put off from also going public in the event that he is prosecuted.
"If my case is prosecuted, then if other people want to follow, they would not," he said.
[IMG alt="Russian President Vladimir Putin attends a meeting with Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko in Sochi, Russia May 23, 2022. Sputnik/Ramil Sitdikov/Kremlin via REUTERS ATTENTION EDITORS - THIS IMAGE WAS PROVIDED BY A THIRD PARTY.
"]https://e3.365dm.com/22/05/768x432/...pg?bypass-service-worker&20220523164432[/IMG]
Vladimir Putin has sought to crack down on criticism of his war
Mr Putin's government has sought to crack down on dissent over the war in *Ukraine* and how what the Kremlin calls the "special military operation" is proceeding.
Mr Bondarev said those who decided to launch the war "want only one thing - to remain in power forever, live in pompous tasteless palaces, sail on yachts comparable in tonnage and cost to the entire Russian Navy, enjoying unlimited power and complete impunity".



3:05
The battle for Severodonetsk
He added: "Today, the ministry of foreign affairs is not about diplomacy. It is all about warmongering, lies and hatred."
The Russian envoy announced his exit on the website LinkedIn.
"I studied to be a diplomat and have been a diplomat for 20 years," he wrote.
"The [Russian foreign] ministry has become my home and family. But I simply cannot any longer share in this bloody, witless and absolutely needless ignominy."


He also said he had no plans to leave Geneva.
He said: "_ don't know for now what I'm going to do next. I'm thinking about it, but I think if I have to go back to Russia, then the prospects maybe not very pleasant."
The West has imposed sweeping sanctions on Russia and provided Ukraine with military support in response to the invasion.
Hiller Neuer, executive director of the advocacy group UN Watch, said: "Boris Bondarev is a hero."
A spokesman for the Russian mission did not immediately respond to calls._

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## kingQamaR

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528953116611182592



And that would be a 155mm firing sat guided munitions. In testing several years ago they could hit a named car in a car park at ten K with a non explosive round


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> Putin expects Ukraine people coming with flowers. Well not in this life obviously. great Ukrainian counteroffensive coming as soon as mid June.
> 
> Ukraine to launch counteroffensive by mid-June: Zelenskyy aide​Arms deliveries from U.S., Europe enable fight back against Russian troops
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian presidential aide Oleksiy Arestovich speaks during an online interview with Nikkei Asia on May 1. (Photo courtesy of Ukrainian Presidential Office)
> 
> RINTARO HOSOKAWA, Nikkei staff writerMay 2, 2022 15:04 JSTUpdated on May 2, 2022 19:07 JST
> VIENNA -- Ukraine will be able to go on the offensive against Russia between late May and mid-June, thanks to weapons supplied by the U.S. and European countries, an adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has said.


It depends on how much Russia oppress Mariupol population, as I said, Melitopol had their started since their mayor was kidnapped, if Russian do something similar, thing might kick off early


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529126948156461057

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## MeFishToo

Bengal71 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528674096724189187
> Is this for real or fake?


Its obviously as fake as anything else posted online ment to justify this russian invasion. In a few years this claim is going to resurface as yet another fact by pro russian trolls. Same goes with these ridiculous “interviews” with “liberated” ukrainians telling about the atrocities committed by the NAZIES..


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529142956145483777


----------



## The SC

The tactical situation of the Ukrainian army in Donbass has deteriorated significantly in recent weeks.
Despite the huge loss of life and equipment, the Russian invasion army was still breaking through.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529087381583847425

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529148258660110337

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529120297068154887

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529073513952321537


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## SalarHaqq

That Guy said:


> I give it 2 weeks, maybe 3 before Ukraine takes back Kherson.
> 
> The Russians are losing this war, and they're losing badly.



This was posted on April, 19. Five (rather than two or three) weeks have passed since then and the city of Kherson has safely remained in Russian hands.

In conclusion, the quoted prediction proved squarely inaccurate.

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## F-22Raptor

The SC said:


> The tactical situation of the Ukrainian army in Donbass has deteriorated significantly in recent weeks.
> Despite the huge loss of life and equipment, the Russian invasion army was still breaking through.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529087381583847425
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529148258660110337
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529120297068154887
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529073513952321537





Russia is throwing almost everything they have on that axis. The Izyum axis has been stalled for weeks. 

We’ve gone from Russia taking Kyiv, Kharkiv, Odesa, Dnipro etc in February to a 100K sized city in Severodonetsk. 

That’s how drastically Russian operations have been rolled back. Russia simply can’t extend much further, and a Ukrainian offensive is coming before the end of the year.



SalarHaqq said:


> This was posted on April, 19. Not 2 nor 3, but 5 weeks have passed since then and the city of Kherson has safely remained in Russian hands.
> 
> In conclusion, the quoted prediction proved squarely inaccurate.
> 
> View attachment 847430



Ukraine is in waiting mode to build up their forces for the offensive. While his time prediction was inaccurate, Ukrainian forces are not far from Kherson and a counteroffensive is coming.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529147388992139265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529080607753527296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529039095997280257

Japanese Defense Minister: Chinese and Russian fighters conducted joint flights over the Sea of Japan and the East China Sea in conjunction with the Quad Summit in Tokyo
@US_World1


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529060694875938818

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529158414219214848


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## The SC

Russia captured almost 21% of the total territory of Ukraine - Forbes

The area of Ukrainian territory captured by Russia has increased by 2.9 times since the beginning of the invasion.. If until February 24 the Russian Federation controlled 7% of the territory of our country, now the area of uncontrolled territory in Ukraine has grown to 20.9% of the total territory.
This is stated in the article Forbes Ukraine.
According to the publication, as of February 23, 43,300 square kilometers (7%) were under the occupation of the Russian Federation.
Now the area has increased by 2.9 times - up to 125 thousand square meters. km (20.9%)



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528744479666192384

Russian Defense: Destruction of a Ukrainian ammunition depot in the Donbass that contained American howitzers M777
@AlArabiya_Brk


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529166840785690627

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529070637687480322

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529064336622239745


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## That Guy

SalarHaqq said:


> This was posted on April, 19. Not 2 nor 3, but 5 weeks have passed since then and the city of Kherson has safely remained in Russian hands.
> 
> In conclusion, the quoted prediction proved squarely inaccurate.


The prediction of a Ukrainian surrender has also gone down the drain. So I guess we're all wrong.

At least my excuse was that the threat of a Russian offensive in Donbas forced Ukraine to change its focus to the east.

Besides, you should be talking about inaccuracies, when you deliberately present false information, and allegations based upon your own feelings.

Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house.

When Russia inevitably loses this war, and they will, its very clear now, people like you are gonna be completely discredited.

While people like me, who don't care who wins or loses, have nothing to lose.

Piece of advise, don't get caught up in conflicts that have nothing to do with you.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529169717268779009

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529169721089789954

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529175340949569539

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## That Guy

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia is throwing almost everything they have on that axis. The Izyum axis has been stalled for weeks.
> 
> We’ve gone from Russia taking Kyiv, Kharkiv, Odesa, Dnipro etc in February to a 100K sized city in Severodonetsk.
> 
> That’s how drastically Russian operations have been rolled back. Russia simply can’t extend much further, and a Ukrainian offensive is coming before the end of the year.
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine is in waiting mode to build up their forces for the offensive. While his time prediction was inaccurate, Ukrainian forces are not far from Kherson and a counteroffensive is coming.


Pretty much. They had to halt the previous offensive due to a massive Russian offensive in Donbas, which never ended up happening because Russian is incompetent.

If that never happened, Kherson would be in Ukrainian hands, and my time line would have been accurate.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529138042715484162

Reactions: Love Love:
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## khansaheeb

Apollon said:


> Love how that guy calmly walks into death.


We will all walk to death one day.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

jamahir said:


> Obviously real. These criminals have also hung a pregnant woman from a tree beam in a forest and held her till she died and beside her a man also hung from the same beam.
> 
> @Foinikas @SalarHaqq @Hassan Al-Somal, this reminds me of the also-NATO-supported "Libyan" and "Syrian" "moderate" "rebels".
> 
> Let the DPR judge the UkroNazis as they see fit.











Disinformation about the Crucifixion of a Warrior from Donbas by the Azov Battalion


On February 26th, the Facebook user “Lela Praga” published a photo depicting a crucified person being set on fire. According




mythdetector.ge





Disinformation about the Crucifixion of a Warrior from Donbas by the Azov Battalion​Myth Detector




On February 26th, the Facebook user “Lela Praga” published a photo depicting a crucified person being set on fire. According to the author, the video allegedly shows the execution of a warrior from Donbas by the Ukrainian Azov Battalion in 2014. On the same day, “Lela Praga” published a second post, which represented a screenshot of the same video clip, and the text stated that a Russian soldier was crucified by Ukrainian soldiers. On February 27th, an identical scene was posted on the Facebook group “Levan Vasadze’s supporters.” The post argued that Russian soldiers burned a Ukrainian soldier alive. Again, on February 27th, the Facebook user “Read Joke” published a post accompanied by a video of two people being hanged. According to the post, the man and his pregnant wife were executed, while the author of the post writes in the comments that this was done by the Azov Battalion. On February 27th, the same Facebook user posted a videoand photo of the crucifixion and burning, which, according to him, showed the burning of a Russian military by the Azov Battalion in 2015.
















*The disseminated posts are disinformative. Claims that the Azov Battalion of the Ukrainian Army crucified and burned a Donbas warrior have been circulating since 2015, although there exists no evidence supporting it. Representatives of the battalion themselves deny any connection to the video. In addition, according to Ukrainian fact-checkers, the video which allegedly shows the hanging of two people, has been staged. Not to mention, the accounts that have been spreading the false information are linked to the pro-Kremlin “Alt-Info.”*

The aforementioned video has been circulating in Russian-language sources since April 25th, 2015. The video was first published by the Russian hacker group “Кибер-Беркут.” In the video, the men who crucified the captive man and then set him on fire say they belong to the Azov Battalion and will punish anyone who collaborates with the separatists. The mentioned information was also aired on the TV channel of the Russian Ministry of Defense “Звезда,” although the story is no longer available.

One day after the release, the Azov Battalion responded to the video. According to their statement, the video serves to discredit them and is an example of information warfare against Ukraine. According to them, the uniforms of the persons shown in the video is different from that of the fighters of the Azov Battalion since the shoulder mark is much larger than it should be, while the weapon looks like it’s pneumatic. They also point out that the person nailed to the cross does not scream while lifting the cross, and the video stops shortly after the fire is set for the cross, therefore it is unknown whether the person really died. Astatement from the Azov Battalion on Facebook also said that the individuals in the video were speaking broken Ukrainian.

As for the second video, which allegedly shows the hanging of two people, it was also first published in 2015 by the Kremlin’s propaganda outlet News Front. The video was analyzed by StopFake, a Ukrainian fact-checking platform. According to them, the unauthentic nature of the video can be confirmed by the unnatural movement of the bodies of the “hanged.” Slowing down the video footage shows the man’s abdomen moving forward while the weight of the body is not concentrated on the neck. StopFake suggests the actors wear special equipment that is used while climbing cliffs. They also draw attention to the fact that the persons involved in the “hanging” ensure that the bodies do not rotate and their backs do not appear during the video.






This is not the first time that the Russian media has spread disinformation about the alleged executions in Ukraine. In 2014, the Kremlin media released an interview with a woman who claimed to be a refugee from the town of Sloviansk. Galina Pishnyak told Russian state media that after entering the city, the Ukrainian army executed a minor boy and his mother because her husband was fighting alongside the separatists. She claimed that the boy was crucified while his mother was tied to a tank and dragged to the central square. Despite the woman claiming that the case had numerous eyewitnesses, no one from the city of Sloviansk confirmed this fact. Notably, the husband of the woman who told the story is a former member of a separatist group. The woman’s family told reporters that she may have told the story in exchange for money.






Russian Defense Ministry TV channel “Звезда” also aired a video in which the Ukrainian military allegedly buried the captured separatists alive. According to the Ukrainian fact-checking organization StopFake, the video contains traces of video processing, not to mention, it is impossible to identify the soldiers’ uniforms and claim that they belong to the Ukrainian forces.

In addition, the Azov Battalion was targeted by other disinformation narratives as well. The battalion was initially a far-right group of volunteers, which later joinedthe Ukrainian National Guard, and now consists of contract military personnel. Among the disseminated false claims, there was a video in which 6 masked gunmen, who identified themselves as member of the Azov Battalion, threatened the Netherlands with terrorist acts if the country did not support Ukraine’s association agreement with the European Union. At the end of the video, they were burning the flag of the Netherlands. According to StopFake, the sound of the video was added later, meaning that the video was altered. In addition, the Azov Battalion responded to the video, calling it an example of Russian propaganda.






In 2014, a photo has circulated on Russian-language websites that allegedly depicted the recruitment of volunteers into the Azov Battalion. The photo showed a person with Nazi symbols tattooed on him. StopFake fact-checked the photo and found that the man had nothing to do with the Azov Battalion and has been wanted since 2005. The photo, which circulated in Russian sources, was processed and in fact, one of the persons had a right-wing movement mark on his attire.




წყარო: StopFake

*About the Source*

Facebook user “Lela Praga” uses a profile picture frame in support of the “Conservative Movement” and “Alt-Info.” The account often shares videos of Alt-Info programs.











Facebook user “Read Joke” has published a number of misleading and manipulative posts about the coronavirus pandemic. In one of the photos, the user has used a frame expressing solidarity with Alt-Info and has expressed support for the leader of the neo-Nazi organization “Georgian National Unity” Giorgi Chelidze.






The article has been written in the framework of Facebook’s fact-checking program. You can read more about the restrictions that Facebook may impose based on this article via this link. You can find information about appealing or editing our assessment via this link.


----------



## SalarHaqq

That Guy said:


> The prediction of a Ukrainian surrender has also gone down the drain. So I guess we're all wrong.



I wouldn't know who else made this particular prediction (apart from user ARMalik), but it was not me. So to speak of "all" in this context would be stretching it somewhat.



That Guy said:


> you deliberately present false information



Where exactly is this supposed to have occurred?



That Guy said:


> When Russia inevitably loses this war, and they will, its very clear now, people like you are gonna be completely discredited.



We certainly shall see. This said, is the above quote implying by the same logic that if Ukraine is defeated, you yourself will be "completely discredited"?

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529135008937648128


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529086940829597


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529080607753527296
> 
> Russia now with more than 4,000 losses




The propaganda that never has facts behind it. Stop telling us what you wished; show us the facts behind your claims.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529086940829597697

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529170580842467328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529215296665419777
Now, where are the fanboys who were claiming Russia was losing? The Ukrainian officials are claiming they can't take it any more.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529215296665419777

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## Trango Towers

$1 = 57.13 Rubbles 

Strongest in 5 years

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529031050155925505

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529153412486529024
Judea is coming out of the shadows. They want to defeat Russia at any cost. It seems the house of cards of Judea is crumbling and they're panicking. Now, listen to their kingpin Soros:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529183979290640384

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529135008937648128



Your kingpin is shitting in his pants. He claims we're at the beginning of World War III. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529183635714232320

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529219843378950145

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## Hassan Al-Somal

LEVI _*🌍*_

*The main events of May 24

Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry*

_*✈️💥*_*Operational-tactical and army aviation* have hit *2* command posts, *3* ammunition depots, *80* areas of Ukrainian manpower and military equipment concentration, as well as *1* Buk-M1 anti-aircraft missile system

_*▫️*_The attacks have resulted in the elimination of more than *210* nationalists and up to *31* armoured and motor vehicles.

_*▫️*_Also, Russian fighter aviation have shot down *1* *Ukrainian* *MiG-29* aircraft near Kramotorsk in the Donetsk People's Republic.

_*💥*_*Missile troops and artillery *have hit *84* command posts, *463* areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration, as well as *137* artillery and mortar units at firing positions.
*
Liberated territory* 
*
▫️*The authorities of the Kherson region will ask to place a Russian military base in the region

Russian language, along with Ukrainian, will be the „official“ language.
*
Mariupol

▫️*Russian Ministry of Defense: demining of the Mariupol port and the adjacent coast of the Sea of Azov has been completed, more than 12,000 explosive objects placed by Ukrainian militants have been neutralized

_*▫️*_large preparation for restoration have begun

*Russia

▫️*Russia is withdrawing from the „Bologna Process“

Russia will develop it‘s own education system
*
Kids in charge of world politics

▫️*The chance that Ukraine will soon become a candidate for European Union membership is not very great, too many countries in the EU don't like the idea. - Dutch PM

_*▫️*_Germany plans to temporarily reactivate coal and oil-fired power plants by decree in case Russia cuts off gas exports to the country.

_*▫️*_Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps to stay on US terrorist blacklist, Biden has decided according to media reports.

_*▫️*_The US Treasury announced that it would not renew the license allowing the Russian Federation to make payments to service its external debt, it will expire on May 25 at 07:01 Moscow time.
*
Daily Dose of Diarrhea - Poland 

▫️*Polish Foreign Minister Zbigniew Rau believes that the energy projects of Germany and Russia have become a symbol of Berlin's dependence on Moscow.
*
International news* 

_*▫️*_The Turkish Foreign Ministry confirmed that consultations with the delegations of Sweden and Finland will be held in Ankara on May 25.

_*▫️*_A terrorist shot and killed 14 elementary school students in Texas and a teacher.

He was killed by police, said the state governor

*China + Russia + India *

_*▫️*_Aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces and the Chinese Air Force today conducted a joint 13-hour air patrol in the Asia-Pacific region.

An air group consisting of Russian Tu-95MS strategic missile carriers and Chinese Hun-6K strategic bombers conducted patrols over the Sea of Japan and the East China Sea, accompanied by Russian Su-30SMs.

_*▫️*_The Indian government is working on options to ensure fertilizer supply from Russia, including establishing a mechanism to work out the cost of fertilizer in Rupee and in return the traders can export Indian items to Russia of similar value

_*▫️*_The United States cannot quickly achieve the changes they want in relations between the Russian Federation and India, the representative of the State Department admitted


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529182437363826692

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529161262243905544


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## Hassan Al-Somal

The kingpin of the West George Soros declared Russia and China as an existential threat to the West, and gave warning to Germany for its trade relationship with Russia and China. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529189979154432004


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## MeFishToo

Trango Towers said:


> $1 = 57.13 Rubbles
> 
> Strongest in 5 years


So why dont you invest your savings in russian stocks or rubles?


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## MeFishToo

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Disinformation about the Crucifixion of a Warrior from Donbas by the Azov Battalion
> 
> 
> On February 26th, the Facebook user “Lela Praga” published a photo depicting a crucified person being set on fire. According
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> mythdetector.ge
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> Disinformation about the Crucifixion of a Warrior from Donbas by the Azov Battalion​Myth Detector
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> On February 26th, the Facebook user “Lela Praga” published a photo depicting a crucified person being set on fire. According to the author, the video allegedly shows the execution of a warrior from Donbas by the Ukrainian Azov Battalion in 2014. On the same day, “Lela Praga” published a second post, which represented a screenshot of the same video clip, and the text stated that a Russian soldier was crucified by Ukrainian soldiers. On February 27th, an identical scene was posted on the Facebook group “Levan Vasadze’s supporters.” The post argued that Russian soldiers burned a Ukrainian soldier alive. Again, on February 27th, the Facebook user “Read Joke” published a post accompanied by a video of two people being hanged. According to the post, the man and his pregnant wife were executed, while the author of the post writes in the comments that this was done by the Azov Battalion. On February 27th, the same Facebook user posted a videoand photo of the crucifixion and burning, which, according to him, showed the burning of a Russian military by the Azov Battalion in 2015.
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> *The disseminated posts are disinformative. Claims that the Azov Battalion of the Ukrainian Army crucified and burned a Donbas warrior have been circulating since 2015, although there exists no evidence supporting it. Representatives of the battalion themselves deny any connection to the video. In addition, according to Ukrainian fact-checkers, the video which allegedly shows the hanging of two people, has been staged. Not to mention, the accounts that have been spreading the false information are linked to the pro-Kremlin “Alt-Info.”*
> 
> The aforementioned video has been circulating in Russian-language sources since April 25th, 2015. The video was first published by the Russian hacker group “Кибер-Беркут.” In the video, the men who crucified the captive man and then set him on fire say they belong to the Azov Battalion and will punish anyone who collaborates with the separatists. The mentioned information was also aired on the TV channel of the Russian Ministry of Defense “Звезда,” although the story is no longer available.
> 
> One day after the release, the Azov Battalion responded to the video. According to their statement, the video serves to discredit them and is an example of information warfare against Ukraine. According to them, the uniforms of the persons shown in the video is different from that of the fighters of the Azov Battalion since the shoulder mark is much larger than it should be, while the weapon looks like it’s pneumatic. They also point out that the person nailed to the cross does not scream while lifting the cross, and the video stops shortly after the fire is set for the cross, therefore it is unknown whether the person really died. Astatement from the Azov Battalion on Facebook also said that the individuals in the video were speaking broken Ukrainian.
> 
> As for the second video, which allegedly shows the hanging of two people, it was also first published in 2015 by the Kremlin’s propaganda outlet News Front. The video was analyzed by StopFake, a Ukrainian fact-checking platform. According to them, the unauthentic nature of the video can be confirmed by the unnatural movement of the bodies of the “hanged.” Slowing down the video footage shows the man’s abdomen moving forward while the weight of the body is not concentrated on the neck. StopFake suggests the actors wear special equipment that is used while climbing cliffs. They also draw attention to the fact that the persons involved in the “hanging” ensure that the bodies do not rotate and their backs do not appear during the video.
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> This is not the first time that the Russian media has spread disinformation about the alleged executions in Ukraine. In 2014, the Kremlin media released an interview with a woman who claimed to be a refugee from the town of Sloviansk. Galina Pishnyak told Russian state media that after entering the city, the Ukrainian army executed a minor boy and his mother because her husband was fighting alongside the separatists. She claimed that the boy was crucified while his mother was tied to a tank and dragged to the central square. Despite the woman claiming that the case had numerous eyewitnesses, no one from the city of Sloviansk confirmed this fact. Notably, the husband of the woman who told the story is a former member of a separatist group. The woman’s family told reporters that she may have told the story in exchange for money.
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> Russian Defense Ministry TV channel “Звезда” also aired a video in which the Ukrainian military allegedly buried the captured separatists alive. According to the Ukrainian fact-checking organization StopFake, the video contains traces of video processing, not to mention, it is impossible to identify the soldiers’ uniforms and claim that they belong to the Ukrainian forces.
> 
> In addition, the Azov Battalion was targeted by other disinformation narratives as well. The battalion was initially a far-right group of volunteers, which later joinedthe Ukrainian National Guard, and now consists of contract military personnel. Among the disseminated false claims, there was a video in which 6 masked gunmen, who identified themselves as member of the Azov Battalion, threatened the Netherlands with terrorist acts if the country did not support Ukraine’s association agreement with the European Union. At the end of the video, they were burning the flag of the Netherlands. According to StopFake, the sound of the video was added later, meaning that the video was altered. In addition, the Azov Battalion responded to the video, calling it an example of Russian propaganda.
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> In 2014, a photo has circulated on Russian-language websites that allegedly depicted the recruitment of volunteers into the Azov Battalion. The photo showed a person with Nazi symbols tattooed on him. StopFake fact-checked the photo and found that the man had nothing to do with the Azov Battalion and has been wanted since 2005. The photo, which circulated in Russian sources, was processed and in fact, one of the persons had a right-wing movement mark on his attire.
> 
> 
> 
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> წყარო: StopFake
> 
> *About the Source*
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> Facebook user “Lela Praga” uses a profile picture frame in support of the “Conservative Movement” and “Alt-Info.” The account often shares videos of Alt-Info programs.
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> Facebook user “Read Joke” has published a number of misleading and manipulative posts about the coronavirus pandemic. In one of the photos, the user has used a frame expressing solidarity with Alt-Info and has expressed support for the leader of the neo-Nazi organization “Georgian National Unity” Giorgi Chelidze.
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> The article has been written in the framework of Facebook’s fact-checking program. You can read more about the restrictions that Facebook may impose based on this article via this link. You can find information about appealing or editing our assessment via this link.


Its a waste of time disproving these false stories. Those who choose to believe them wont even read your post. They simply dont care. They are either sheep or hecklers. Just look at all the BS posted in this thread by the anti western trolls acting as if Ukraine defending it self is war mongering.


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## Bengal71

MeFishToo said:


> Its obviously as fake as anything else posted online ment to justify this russian invasion. In a few years this claim is going to resurface as yet another fact by pro russian trolls. Same goes with these ridiculous “interviews” with “liberated” ukrainians telling about the atrocities committed by the NAZIES..



How is this fake? There's a video. Are you saying it's CGI?


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529210175675957248


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529128738356600839
hehe

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528927534783545345

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529215052326248448


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## MeFishToo

Bengal71 said:


> How is this fake? There's a video. Are you saying it's CGI?


Exactly why does it show what is claimed? Notice you dont really see anything? You do know Russia is spreading disinformation? You do know russia spreading such fake stories about ukrainians crucifying russians is nothing new? Its all part of the great russian plan to dehumanize anything ukrainian - makes it alot easier to justify an invasion and kill alot of innocent people.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529210175675957248


Invading slowly to avoid civilian casualties ..

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529233798415757312


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## F-22Raptor

*Russian forces have likely abandoned efforts to complete a single large encirclement of Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine and are instead attempting to secure smaller encirclements—enabling them to make incremental measured gains. *Russian forces are likely attempting to achieve several simultaneous encirclements of small pockets of Ukrainian forces in Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts: the broader Severodonetsk area (including Rubizhne and Lysychansk), Bakhmut-Lysychansk, around Zolote (just northeast of Popasna), and around Ukrainian fortifications in Avdiivka. Russian forces have begun steadily advancing efforts in these different encirclements daily but have not achieved any major “breakthroughs” or made major progress towards their stated objectives of securing the Donetsk Oblast borders or seizing all of Donbas. Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai reported that Ukrainian forces only controlled approximately 10 percent of Luhansk Oblast as of May 15 (compared to 30 percent prior to the full-scale Russian invasion on February 24, 2022).[1] Russian forces have secured more terrain in the past week than efforts earlier in May. However, they have done so by reducing the scope of their objectives—largely abandoning operations around Izyum and concentrating on key frontline towns: Russian performance remains poor.

*Russian forces will additionally likely face protracted urban combat if they successfully encircle Severodonetsk (as well as in other large towns like Bakhmut), which Russian forces have struggled with throughout the war.* Russian forces are committing a significant number of their troops, artillery, and aircraft to defeat Ukrainian defenders in Luhansk Oblast and are likely pulling necessary resources from the Izyum axis, defensive positions around Kharkiv City, Donetsk City, and the Zaporizhia area. Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai has previously compared Ukrainian forces in Luhansk Oblast to the previous defenders of Mariupol, which aimed to wear out Russian forces and prevent further offensive operations.[2] The UK Defense Ministry also noted that a Russian victory over Severodonetsk will only worsen Russian logistical issues and extend Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs).[3]* Russian forces are making greater advances in the past week than throughout the rest of May—but these advances remain slow, confined to smaller objectives than the Kremlin intended, and face continued Ukrainian defenses; they do not constitute a major breakthrough.











Institute for the Study of War


Russian forces have likely abandoned efforts to complete a single large encirclement of Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine and are instead attempting to secure smaller encirclements—enabling them to make incremental measured gains. Russian forces are l




www.understandingwar.org




*

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529194935920037895

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529194935920037895

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529194935920037895


F-22Raptor said:


> *Russian forces have likely abandoned efforts to complete a single large encirclement of Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine and are instead attempting to secure smaller encirclements—enabling them to make incremental measured gains. *Russian forces are likely attempting to achieve several simultaneous encirclements of small pockets of Ukrainian forces in Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts: the broader Severodonetsk area (including Rubizhne and Lysychansk), Bakhmut-Lysychansk, around Zolote (just northeast of Popasna), and around Ukrainian fortifications in Avdiivka. Russian forces have begun steadily advancing efforts in these different encirclements daily but have not achieved any major “breakthroughs” or made major progress towards their stated objectives of securing the Donetsk Oblast borders or seizing all of Donbas. Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai reported that Ukrainian forces only controlled approximately 10 percent of Luhansk Oblast as of May 15 (compared to 30 percent prior to the full-scale Russian invasion on February 24, 2022).[1] Russian forces have secured more terrain in the past week than efforts earlier in May. However, they have done so by reducing the scope of their objectives—largely abandoning operations around Izyum and concentrating on key frontline towns: Russian performance remains poor.
> 
> *Russian forces will additionally likely face protracted urban combat if they successfully encircle Severodonetsk (as well as in other large towns like Bakhmut), which Russian forces have struggled with throughout the war.* Russian forces are committing a significant number of their troops, artillery, and aircraft to defeat Ukrainian defenders in Luhansk Oblast and are likely pulling necessary resources from the Izyum axis, defensive positions around Kharkiv City, Donetsk City, and the Zaporizhia area. Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai has previously compared Ukrainian forces in Luhansk Oblast to the previous defenders of Mariupol, which aimed to wear out Russian forces and prevent further offensive operations.[2] The UK Defense Ministry also noted that a Russian victory over Severodonetsk will only worsen Russian logistical issues and extend Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs).[3]* Russian forces are making greater advances in the past week than throughout the rest of May—but these advances remain slow, confined to smaller objectives than the Kremlin intended, and face continued Ukrainian defenses; they do not constitute a major breakthrough.
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> Institute for the Study of War
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> Russian forces have likely abandoned efforts to complete a single large encirclement of Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine and are instead attempting to secure smaller encirclements—enabling them to make incremental measured gains. Russian forces are l
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> www.understandingwar.org
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> *









__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529262918872727553
Enough with the bogus propaganda. The Judea's agenda is very obvious.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529231661157826561

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529231662382469126


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## Hakwa Nadro

NotSure said:


> Yeah, i am so frustrated:


thats the best you can do


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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MAY 24​May 24, 2022 - Press ISW





*
Kateryna Stepanenko, Karolina Hird, and Mason Clark
May 24, 7:00 pm ET*​*Russian forces have likely abandoned efforts to complete a single large encirclement of Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine and are instead attempting to secure smaller encirclements—enabling them to make incremental measured gains. *Russian forces are likely attempting to achieve several simultaneous encirclements of small pockets of Ukrainian forces in Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts: the broader Severodonetsk area (including Rubizhne and Lysychansk), Bakhmut-Lysychansk, around Zolote (just northeast of Popasna), and around Ukrainian fortifications in Avdiivka. Russian forces have begun steadily advancing efforts in these different encirclements daily but have not achieved any major “breakthroughs” or made major progress towards their stated objectives of securing the Donetsk Oblast borders or seizing all of Donbas. Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai reported that Ukrainian forces only controlled approximately 10 percent of Luhansk Oblast as of May 15 (compared to 30 percent prior to the full-scale Russian invasion on February 24, 2022).[1] Russian forces have secured more terrain in the past week than efforts earlier in May. However, they have done so by reducing the scope of their objectives—largely abandoning operations around Izyum and concentrating on key frontline towns: Russian performance remains poor.
*Russian forces will additionally likely face protracted urban combat if they successfully encircle Severodonetsk (as well as in other large towns like Bakhmut), which Russian forces have struggled with throughout the war.* Russian forces are committing a significant number of their troops, artillery, and aircraft to defeat Ukrainian defenders in Luhansk Oblast and are likely pulling necessary resources from the Izyum axis, defensive positions around Kharkiv City, Donetsk City, and the Zaporizhia area. Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai has previously compared Ukrainian forces in Luhansk Oblast to the previous defenders of Mariupol, which aimed to wear out Russian forces and prevent further offensive operations.[2] The UK Defense Ministry also noted that a Russian victory over Severodonetsk will only worsen Russian logistical issues and extend Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs).[3]* Russian forces are making greater advances in the past week than throughout the rest of May—but these advances remain slow, confined to smaller objectives than the Kremlin intended, and face continued Ukrainian defenses; they do not constitute a major breakthrough.
Senior Kremlin officials are increasingly openly admitting that the Russian offensive in Ukraine is moving slower than anticipated and are grasping for explanations to justify the slow pace. *Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu claimed that Russian operations in Ukraine are progressing slowly because Russian forces want to afford civilians the opportunity to evacuate, though Russian forces have targeted Ukrainian civilians throughout the war and repeatedly denied Ukrainian attempts to negotiate humanitarian evacuation corridors.[4] Shoigu’s statement is notably his first admission that Russian forces are behind schedule and is the first official statement on the pace of the war since Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko stated that the operation was “dragging” on May 4.[5] Russian milbloggers are criticizing Shoigu’s claimed consideration for civilians and claimed that Soviet troops would not have cared if “Nazi” civilians evacuated, part of the growing Russian nationalist reaction that the Kremlin is not doing enough to win the war in Ukraine.[6] Director of the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service Sergey Naryshkin stated that the ultimate goal of the Russian offensive is to ensure “Nazism” is “100% eradicated, or it will rear its head in a few years, and in an even uglier form.”[7] Naryshkin and Shoigu’s statements indicate that Russian officials are likely setting conditions for a protracted war in Ukraine in order to justify slower and more measured advances than initially anticipated.
*Forcefully mobilized servicemen from the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics continued to protest the Russian and proxy military command. *Servicemen of the 3rd Infantry Battalion of the 105th Infantry Regiment from the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) recorded a video appeal to DNR Head Denis Pushilin wherein they claimed they were mobilized on February 23 and that they have been forced to actively participate in hostilities despite their lack of military experience. The battalion stated that they served on the frontlines in Mariupol and have been redeployed to the territory of the Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) with only 60% of their original personnel and are now dealing with severe morale issues and physical exhaustion. The battalion notably claimed that the servicemen did not go through routine medical inspection prior to service and that many are suffering from chronic illnesses that should have rendered them ineligible for service. The video appeal is consistent with numerous reports from Ukrainian and Western sources that proxy forces are largely forcibly mobilized, poorly trained, and suffering from declining morale, but is notable due to the willingness of the DNR servicemen to publicly express their discontent.[8]
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces have likely abandoned efforts to encircle large Ukrainian formations in eastern Ukraine and are instead attempting to secure smaller encirclements and focus on Severodonetsk.*
*This change in the Russian approach is enabling gradual advances—but at the cost of abandoning several intended lines of advance and abandoning the Kremlin’s intended deep encirclement of Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine.*
*Ukrainian forces are likely conducting a controlled withdrawal southwest of Popasna near Bakhmut to protect Ukrainian supply lines against Russian offensives in the southeast of Bakhmut.*
*Russian occupation authorities in Mariupol announced that they will hold war crimes trials against Ukrainian soldiers in Mariupol in a likely effort to strengthen judicial control of the city and support false Kremlin narratives of Ukrainian crimes.*
*Russian forces are attempting to retake Ternova in northern Kharkiv Oblast and seek to stabilize defensive positions near the Russian border against the Ukrainian counteroffensive.*
*Russian forces are forming reserves and deploying S-400 missile systems in northwest Crimea to reinforce the southern axis.*
*Several DNR servicemen openly released a video appeal to DNR leader Denis Pushilin stating they have been forced into combat operations without proper support, indicating increasing demoralization among Russian and proxy forces.*
*

*
*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate main effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
Supporting effort 1—Mariupol; 
Supporting effort 2—Kharkiv City;
Supporting effort 3—Southern axis.
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces did not launch offensive operations south of Izyum on May 24 but continued to reconnoiter Ukrainian positions in the region.[9] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are likely preparing to resume an offensive toward Slovyansk and deployed additional artillery units to southern neighborhoods of Izyum.[10] Izyum City Council Deputy Maxim Strelnik claimed that over 20,000 Russian personnel in what he reported are 25 battalion tactical groups (BTGs) are preparing to resume a large encirclement of Ukrainian troops from the north.[11] ISW cannot independently confirm these Russian troop numbers or their unit structure, and Strelnik may be referencing a Ukrainian General Staff report from April 22 that twenty-five Russian BTGs were operating around Izyum.[12] The Russian units around Izyum are likely heavily degraded and it is highly unlikely Russia is operating twenty-five full strength BTGs (at 800-900 personnel per BTG, this would be 20,000-22,500 personnel in total). Many Russian personnel on this axis are likely in rear areas or not combat effective. Moreover, poor Russian tactics largely nullify the weight of numbers on this front, as Russian forces remain confined to launching narrow attacks down major roads that often do not employ more than a single BTG—at most—at a time.



Russian forces continued to prioritize attacks against Lyman rather than Slovyansk on May 24, likely to support a shallow encirclement of Ukrainian troops northwest of Severodonetsk. Pro-Russian military Telegram channels also noted that Russian and proxy forces have adopted a new strategy abandoning attacks toward Slovyansk and Barvinkove in favor of the Battle for Severodonetsk.[13] ISW previously forecasted that Russian forces would scale down their initial objectives of reaching the Donetsk Oblast border in favor of securing the Luhansk Oblast borders.[14] Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) Head Denis Pushilin announced that Russian forces began an assault on Lyman but claimed to have only seized the northern half of the settlement.[15] ISW cannot independently confirm Pushilin’s claims. Geolocated social media videos showed that Russian forces heavily bombarded Lyman on May 23, likely in preparation for an assault on the town.
Russian forces launched ground assaults on settlements approximately 20 km southwest of Severodonetsk, but have not reached the city.[16] The UK Defense Ministry noted that Russian advances towards Severodonetsk from Rubizhne and advances from the southwest remain separated by approximately 25 km, and Russian forces may be able to encircle Severodonetsk in the coming days.[17] Russian forces will likely struggle to capture the city itself, however, and Russian assaults on major urban terrain have been unable to quickly take ground throughout the war.
Ukrainian forces likely conducted a controlled withdrawal southwest of Popasna to defend Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) in Bakhmut against Russian offensives. Russian forces seized Svitlodarsk, approximately 21 km southwest of Popasna, after Ukrainian forces retreated and damaged a bridge and dam over the Myronivskyi Reservoir on May 23.[18] Ukrainian forces previously targeted the reservoir on May 14, likely in preparation for a gradual withdrawal from the area.[19] Russian forces continued to advance just northeast and east of Popasna, with social media footage showing the arrival of reinforcements to support the push toward the Lysychansk and Bakhmut highways.[20] DNR sources also claimed that Russian forces are attempting a shallow encirclement of weakening Ukrainian troops in Avdiivka, but ISW cannot confirm these claims.[21]



*Supporting Effort #1—Mariupol (Russian objective: Capture Mariupol and reduce the Ukrainian defenders)*
Russian and proxy forces continued to “restore” Mariupol on May 24. Troops focused on demining the ruins of the city, the port, and the sea.[22] Head of the Russian National Defense Control Center Colonel-General Mikhail Mizintsev claimed on May 24 that Russian forces will open a humanitarian “green corridor” in the Black Sea to allow the safe exit of foreign ships from the Port of Mariupol on May 25.[23]
Head of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) Denis Pushilin stated that the DNR is developing rules and procedures for tribunals in Mariupol to try and punish Ukrainian soldiers for war crimes.[24] Pushilin’s statement notably comes the day after the first Russian soldier was found guilty in a Ukrainian war crimes trial. Mariupol’s occupation administration will likely use such tribunals to enforce their rhetorical agendas and strengthen judicial control over Mariupol and other occupied areas.
*Supporting Effort #2—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces continued to focus on maintaining and improving their positions north of Kharkiv City on May 24. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are conducting ground assaults on the outskirts of Ternova, a village recaptured by Ukrainian forces in early May in the far north of Kharkiv Oblast and 5 km from the international border.[25] A Russian Telegram channel claimed that Russian forces have restored control over the entirety of Ternova, and while this claim cannot be confirmed at this time, it indicates that Russian forces are focusing on retaking control of settlements near the border.[26] Russian troops additionally shelled Kharkiv City and its environs.[27] Sentinel satellite imagery from May 24 notably showed a Russian rear base constructed in Belgorod Oblast in early April within 15 km of the Ukrainian border.[28] Russian forces are likely using this and other rear bases to support operations in northern Kharkiv Oblast and seek to screen them from Ukrainian shelling. 



*Supporting Effort #3—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces continued to reinforce their positions on the Southern Axis but did not make any confirmed advances on May 24.[29] Russian troops are reportedly strengthening their grouping in Vasylivka and Kamyanske (both south of Zaporizhzhia City) in preparation for offensives to the north.[30] The Ukrainian General Staff noted that Russian troops in Crimea are forming reserves and a spokesman for the Odesa Military Administration stated that Russian forces are reportedly deploying S-400 missile systems to northwest Crimea. Russian milblogger Alexander Zhuchkovsky, however, called the situation on the Zaporizhia frontline of the Southern Axis “deplorable,” and indicated that Ukrainian artillery pressure has been effective in slowing Russian troop movements.[31] Zhuchkovsky noted that Zaporizhia Oblast is not a priority for Russian command and much of the Russian grouping in the area is comprised of reservists. His assertion is corroborated by the fact that Russian forces continued to shell Ukrainian positions in Kherson, Zaporizhia, and Dnipropetrovsk Oblasts on May 24, but did not engage in any active ground attacks.[32]
Recent Ukrainian partisan actions in Zaporizhia Oblast continue to pressure Russian occupation forces, which are continuing actions to strengthen administrative control of occupied areas.[33] Occupation authorities in Kherson, Berdyansk, and Melitopol stated that both cities will be included in the ruble zone.[34]



*Immediate items to watch*

Russian forces are likely reinforcing their grouping north of Kharkiv City to prevent further advances of the Ukrainian counteroffensive toward the Russian border. Russian forces may commit elements of the 1st Tank Army to Northern Kharkiv in the near future. 
The Russians will continue efforts to encircle Severodonetsk and Lysychansk at least from the south, possibly by focusing on cutting off the last highway connecting Severodonetsk-Lysychansk with the rest of Ukraine.
Russian forces in Mariupol will likely shift their focus to occupational control of the city as the siege of Azovstal has concluded.
Russian forces are likely preparing for Ukrainian counteroffensives and settling in for protracted operations in Southern Ukraine.


----------



## That Guy

SalarHaqq said:


> I wouldn't know who else made this particular prediction (apart from user ARMalik), but it was not me. So to speak of "all" in this context would be stretching it somewhat.
> 
> 
> 
> Where exactly is this supposed to have occurred?
> 
> 
> 
> We certainly shall see. This said, is the above quoted statement implying that if Ukraine is defeated, you yourself will be "completely discredited" by the same logic?


If you get involved in a conversation, then state your stance. You got involved and indirectly defended my opponent's comments, as such I have no other choice but to see it as you having a similar stance.

As for misinformation spread by you? You know damn well what I'm talking about. Not only me, but other have pointed it out to, stop acting like you're innocent.

Unlike you, I have no stake in this fight. Whether I'm right or wrong doesn't matter, because I don't care who wins, and as such have not been actively spreading propaganda. You on the other hand have been spreading propaganda. Me being wrong, and you being wrong are two completely different set of standards, because you are actively and emotionally involved, I am not.

This isn't a debate. I'm not here to debate you. I have no interest in debating an intellectually dishonest person who tries to engage in falsehoods and gotcha moments.

You opinion means nothing to me, and the only reason why I'm replying is because I'm bored.


----------



## ber123

https://twitter.com/i/events/1529053921246863360 Royal Navy could escort grain ships through Odesa blockade, egypt is going to help against russia sisi going to get it first by looks of it.


----------



## wahhab0202

I am inclined to take everything said by Mr. Zelensky with good amount of salt. He change his narrative every time. At one chance he said he will sacrifice anything to have the lost territory back and at another chance he said he willing to cede on some territories. He might be trying to confuse the enemy but at the expense of his credibility.


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529231661157826561
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529231662382469126

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## SalarHaqq

That Guy said:


> If you get involved in a conversation, then state your stance. You got involved and indirectly defended my opponent's comments, as such I have no other choice but to see it as you having a similar stance.



Not necessarily. The one who quotes you may strictly want to focus on a specific statement you made, irregardless of previous exchanges you had with third parties. Case in point, I had bookmarked your prediction because I was certain it was going to be far off, and never really paid attention to what it was you were replying to (I don't read every post in this thread).



That Guy said:


> As for misinformation spread by you? You know damn well what I'm talking about. Not only me, but other have pointed it out to, stop acting like you're innocent.



Incorrect. No idea what you are referring to. Neither what "misinformation" you mean, nor who is supposed to have pointed it out.

If you level these sorts of accusations against someone, you ought to be able to back them up.



That Guy said:


> Unlike you, I have no stake in this fight. Whether I'm right or wrong doesn't matter, because I don't care who wins, and as such have not been actively spreading propaganda. You on the other hand have been spreading propaganda. Me being wrong, and you being wrong are two completely different set of standards, because you are actively and emotionally involved, I am not.



That's not what the tone of your comments tends to suggest. 



That Guy said:


> This isn't a debate. *I'm not here to debate you. I have interest in debating an intellectually dishonest person* who tries to engage in falsehoods and gotcha moments.



So you're acknowledging I'm an intellectually honest person. Thanks for the confirmation.

Bookmarked your latest prediction that Russia will evidently be defeated, and that this would supposedly discredit me, by the way. I assume by logical inference - and since you dodged my question, that you believe the reverse correlation would hold true as well.


----------



## That Guy

SalarHaqq said:


> Not necessarily. The one who quotes you may strictly want to focus on a specific statement you made, irregardless of previous exchanges with third parties. Case in point, I had bookmarked your prediction because I was certain it was going to be far off.
> 
> 
> 
> False. I do not know what you are referring to. Neither what "misinformation" you mean, nor who is supposed to have pointed it out.
> 
> If you level these sorts of accusations against someone, you ought to be able to back them up.
> 
> 
> 
> That's not what the tone of your comments tends to suggest. But anyway, it's not as if I cared about whether or not you're emotionally involved in this conflict, peripheral gossip not being my cup of tea.
> 
> 
> 
> So you're acknowledging that I'm an intellectually honest person. I know I am, but thanks for the confirmation.
> 
> Bookmarked your latest prediction that Russia will evidently be defeated, and that this would supposedly discredit me, by the way. I assume by logical inference - and since you dodged my question, that you believe the reverse would hold true as well.


Whatever dude, I don't care enough to carry on this conversation.


----------



## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529060694875938818







wahhab0202 said:


> I am inclined to take everything said by Mr. Zelensky with good amount of salt. He change his narrative every time. At one chance he said he will sacrifice anything to have the lost territory back and at another chance he said he willing to cede on some territories. He might be trying to confuse the enemy but at the expense of his credibility.


Only credibility Zelensky got is with NED NATO and Western doggies and MSMs 







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529166840785690627







Killing off guidance to the much boasted Murican Excaliber shells, and lots lots more

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## wahhab0202

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia is throwing almost everything they have on that axis. The Izyum axis has been stalled for weeks.
> 
> We’ve gone from Russia taking Kyiv, Kharkiv, Odesa, Dnipro etc in February to a 100K sized city in Severodonetsk.
> 
> That’s how drastically Russian operations have been rolled back. Russia simply can’t extend much further, and a Ukrainian offensive is coming before the end of the year.
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine is in waiting mode to build up their forces for the offensive. While his time prediction was inaccurate, Ukrainian forces are not far from Kherson and a counteroffensive is coming.


Without a worthy air support, I think Ukraine would have a very tough time reclaiming the lost territories. Russian's reinforcements are coming from the liberated Mariupol and also fresh contingent from Russia make that even harder.


----------



## DF41

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The kingpin of the West George Soros declared Russia and China as an existential threat to the West, and gave warning to Germany for its trade relationship with Russia and China.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529189979154432004


----------



## Viet

wahhab0202 said:


> Without a worthy air support, I think Ukraine would have a very tough time reclaiming the lost territories. Russian's reinforcements are coming from the liberated Mariupol and also fresh contingent from Russia make that even harder.


War is back and forth. You lose today you win tomorrow. Nothing special, just wait for the outcome. This 3-day war ist just 3 months old, will continue for years. Russia fought afghan rebellions for 10 years. Even Russians successfully occupy parts of territories the resistance will continue until the last Ukrainian man and women.
Ukraine receives military supplies from 47 countries, recently I hear even from Columbia.

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## Soldier35

The Russian military used the Ukrainian captured anti-tank complex "Stugna-P" to strike at the fortified positions of the Ukrainian army.






Russian soldiers carried a wounded Ukrainian soldier for two kilometers, who was abandoned by his squad, the video was published to show that there should be a manifestation of humanity even in war.






French self-propelled guns "Caesar" manufactured by Nexter were spotted in Ukraine. The Caesar self-propelled gun entered service in France in 2003. The ACS has a 155-mm caliber and can carry up to 18 shells, the installation crew is 5 people, but it is possible to control three. The ACS is equipped with a Sigma-30 fire control system, with a NAVSTAR navigation system receiver. The installation is easy to maintain and manage. The rate of fire of the ACS is 6 rounds per minute. The maximum firing range when using active-reactive ammunition is 42 km.

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## gambit

That Guy said:


> So I guess we're all wrong.


I was invited here back in '09. Since then, you guys ever got tired of being wrong?


----------



## wahhab0202

Viet said:


> War is back and forth. You lose today you win tomorrow. Nothing special, just wait for the outcome. This 3-day war ist just 3 months old, will continue for years. Russia fought afghan rebellions for 10 years. Even Russians successfully occupy parts of territories the resistance will continue until the last Ukrainian man and women.
> Ukraine receives military supplies from 47 countries, recently I hear even from Columbia.


Very hard for me to imagine this war -with the repercussions- will last for 2-3 years let alone 10 years. The world economy is taking a very hard hit from pandemic and in hard labor to recover. I haven't talk about food and energy crisis which is like that pouring the gasoline to the fire. We are very close to a breaking point.
Anyway, we shall see which side is more resilient and steadfast with their objective. Russian seems to be self-sufficient with the food and energy. They have few allies to support them in the area where they need help such technology. On the other side, Ukraine has whole western world to support them. How long it will last, we shall see. The rest of the world are watching nervously the implications of this conflict. For the time being we could rule out nuclear catastrophe but the economic consequences is unbearable for many countries.


----------



## Dalit

wahhab0202 said:


> Very hard for me to imagine this war -with the repercussions- will last for 2-3 years let alone 10 years. The world economy is taking a very hard hit from pandemic and in hard labor to recover. I haven't talk about food and energy crisis which is like that pouring the gasoline to the fire. We are very close to a breaking point.
> Anyway, we shall see which side is more resilient and steadfast with their objective. Russian seems to be self-sufficient with the food and energy. They have few allies to support them in the area where they need help such technology. On the other side, Ukraine has whole western world to support them. How long it will last, we shall see. The rest of the world are watching nervously the implications of this conflict. For the time being we could rule out nuclear catastrophe but the economic consequences is unbearable for many countries.



A recession is on its way. World economies are in serious problem.


----------



## Vergennes

Russians have suffered such horrific armour losses that they are now sending old T62s to the frontline


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529402571944779777

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## RoadAmerica

Trango Towers said:


> $1 = 57.13 Rubbles
> 
> Strongest in 5 years


🤣


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529418087937847298

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529390572712124419

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529414382089916417

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529411585571229696

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529411602558099457


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529384197131051009


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529211844036112385

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529222427909267464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529201789576396800


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529347875339390976

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529364332273971201

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529374742309916672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529346083897344001

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2


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528999110522593280

Reactions: Like Like:
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1


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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529266109803012097
* It was not China as China refused to be in that meeting *

*Those that remained seated, and then walked away were the Vietnamese*

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529133162785386498

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529200441883492352


----------



## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529431434678521856


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529220835369705475


Vergennes said:


> Russians have suffered such horrific armour losses that they are now sending old T62s to the frontline
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529402571944779777




Russia has suffered massive tank losses. Those things are absolute pieces of junk.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529464787784159232

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## Nuclear Clown

DF41 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529060694875938818
> View attachment 847567
> 
> Only credibility Zelensky got is with NED NATO and Western doggies and MSMs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529166840785690627
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Killing off guidance to the much boasted Murican Excaliber shells, and lots lots more


Sorry dude, we're no monsters, actually, only the USA have capital punishment in some states and only for aggravated blod crimes, while PRC has concentration camps, death penalty for non blood crimes, execute Falung Gong members to sell their organs and loves to back ugly dicatorships, moreover, you're depicting them with the same kind of barbarian weapons they used to butcher unarmed Indian borderguards 2 years ago. The Russian proves itself barbaric every day in Ukraine, so yup, your depiction of some medieval era barbarian warriors seems accurate.
So you don't like democracy while being a CCP spy in Taiwan? Well, you surely know that Russia is super migrant friendly? Why don't you move there?

*HOW TAIWAN CAN FREE CONTINENTAL CHINA FROM THE FASCIST CCP and ruin their plans!*
I think it's time we cheat the NPT and sell a few Mach3 stealth nuclear cruise missiles to Taiwan, any way, MBDA says they can make a conventional ASM with these... Don't worry, we made Israel a nuclear power under the Yankee's nose, we can do the same for Taiwan !!!

ASMPA-R performances are similar to the Oniks except it weights only 900kg and it's 300kt instead of 200kt. So we surely can disguise it as a sale of conventional ASMs while there'd surprise cg andies...
even the small AIDC F-CK-1 Ching-kuo can carry 900kg under a hardpoint... it'd make its F-CK-1 designation more realist




Moreover, we can mount their Mirage-2000s, F-CK-1 and F-16s with better engines, two M88 with 50 or even 73kN dry thrust can fit in the F-CK-1, then a 100kN DT/115kN afterburner can fit the F-16 and the M2000 while making room for much more internal fuel, but there are also very interesting features that can be added : Rafale F4 introduces 3rd gen stealth (which can be integrated to any aircraft, in fact, the 1st use wasn't even an aircraft, it's the M51.3 SLBM) and its systems can be used as drop-in upgrades for Mirage-2000.
We surely can provide Rafale to them, the new F4 version directly jumps to 5.5th gen, thanks to the new form of stealth but the best way would be an order of 200 units+ and AIDC licence-buildng them : Dassault has registered the biggest jet fighters orders of 2021, even with the production being doubled, there are significant backlogs, a new production line will be necessary any way, and 200 units+ would be perfect to replace TW's ageing aircraft fleet, even if there were some spats with Thales/Dassault/DCNS, mainly due to Chirac-era dubious kickback practises of state-owned companies (GoF is DCNS+Thales' #1 shareholder), we can absolutely deliver...

Nonetheless the whole fleet would supercruise, but M2000 would also operate the Meteor and MICA-NG but also to do cruise missile strikes as far as Shenyang, Beijing or the Fiery Cross Reef, but the coolest feature, without even going nuclear, would be the ability to sink any ship between Donggang, Fangshenggang and the Philippines using a stealth Mach3 ASM (anti-ship missile) which would be a true pain in the ***: remember, despite 6 AK-630 CIWS,the Moskva couldn't even intercept two subsonic Neptune ASMs, the USS Stark and the HMS Sheffield had CIWS and were hit by Exocet, which, BTW, ROCAF still would be able to use on lesser defended assets like container carriers, oil tankers, with the advantage of costing the half of the Harpoon...
Korea can provide the K-LOGIR in case of beach-landing attempts with swarms of small ships.
The new Indian SMART Torpedo-Missile seems nice too : it can deliver a 30km range torpedo at 600km into 10 minutes, when you know that our NOSTRADAMUS and STRADIVARIUS radars can even detect periscopes... 

Another thing that seems ignored, maybe due to the usual minimising of ranges during senate public hearings, but let's make it clear, the Apache ALCM is the same thing as the SCALP-EG/Storm-Shadow with a different warhead designed to demolish the foundations of 400m of airbase runways.

India will surely be pleased to provide Brahmos for coastal defence, and PDV Mk2 to shoot down satellites and large ballistic missiles, Israel would be pleased to procure Arrow-3 against MIRVs as well as tactical lasers and Iron Dome, while I-Derby-ER would greatly improve F-16 until the AIM-260 becomes available; then we can provide SAMP/T-NG : even the old Aster was the only one proven able to intercept things like the BrahMos as well as Iskander, Scud, etc, the Aster-NT block.1 doubles the range compared to Aster-30... It's not as much as 40N6E on S-400, but this or the 48N6 are not to engage small highly manoeuvring jet fighters, Aster can, and even re-engage if dodged. When it comes to block.2, which is a totally different missile, so I don't get why it's not being renamed. Range is 2.5x THAAD's and 2x its max altitude, it can engage IRBMs in mid-course, MIRVs and moreover, hypersonic manoeuvring assets in both atmospheric and exoatmospheric profiles...


F-22Raptor said:


> *Russian forces have likely abandoned efforts to complete a single large encirclement of Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine and are instead attempting to secure smaller encirclements—enabling them to make incremental measured gains. *Russian forces are likely attempting to achieve several simultaneous encirclements of small pockets of Ukrainian forces in Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts: the broader Severodonetsk area (including Rubizhne and Lysychansk), Bakhmut-Lysychansk, around Zolote (just northeast of Popasna), and around Ukrainian fortifications in Avdiivka. Russian forces have begun steadily advancing efforts in these different encirclements daily but have not achieved any major “breakthroughs” or made major progress towards their stated objectives of securing the Donetsk Oblast borders or seizing all of Donbas. Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai reported that Ukrainian forces only controlled approximately 10 percent of Luhansk Oblast as of May 15 (compared to 30 percent prior to the full-scale Russian invasion on February 24, 2022).[1] Russian forces have secured more terrain in the past week than efforts earlier in May. However, they have done so by reducing the scope of their objectives—largely abandoning operations around Izyum and concentrating on key frontline towns: Russian performance remains poor.
> 
> *Russian forces will additionally likely face protracted urban combat if they successfully encircle Severodonetsk (as well as in other large towns like Bakhmut), which Russian forces have struggled with throughout the war.* Russian forces are committing a significant number of their troops, artillery, and aircraft to defeat Ukrainian defenders in Luhansk Oblast and are likely pulling necessary resources from the Izyum axis, defensive positions around Kharkiv City, Donetsk City, and the Zaporizhia area. Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai has previously compared Ukrainian forces in Luhansk Oblast to the previous defenders of Mariupol, which aimed to wear out Russian forces and prevent further offensive operations.[2] The UK Defense Ministry also noted that a Russian victory over Severodonetsk will only worsen Russian logistical issues and extend Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs).[3]* Russian forces are making greater advances in the past week than throughout the rest of May—but these advances remain slow, confined to smaller objectives than the Kremlin intended, and face continued Ukrainian defenses; they do not constitute a major breakthrough.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Institute for the Study of War
> 
> 
> Russian forces have likely abandoned efforts to complete a single large encirclement of Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine and are instead attempting to secure smaller encirclements—enabling them to make incremental measured gains. Russian forces are l
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.understandingwar.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


The interesting point is that they're now taking the T-62s out of the closets!

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529386854264496128Youngest Russian T-62s were introduced in 1975, thus NoKo was still buildng some in the 80's...




The latest upgrade to Russian T-62 fire-control system is a 1983 Soviet one.
In fact, you'd better use T-62 with Ukrainian, Egyptian, North-Korean, Israeli or French upgrades than what Russia is pulling out from the Soviet stockpiles... They must be really desperate : if they're going T-62, it's that the more advanced T-72 stockpiles are already running dry and that there are even more tanks participating the turret-throwing contest than estimated by Ukrainian MoD which seems to highly back its claims on visual proofs while in fact, Russia is likely to remove damaged/destroyed gear as long they can do advances...

Years ago, I've read about an US-made laser-guided grenade for RPG-7 ranging 700m, I'm not sure but I feel it was fit with an EFP (explosive formed penetrator) rather than a HEAT/tandem-charge, moreover, there are not even ERA bricks fit on these T-62s and considering their structure, they may even beat the turret throwing records...

It's obvious that most of the logistics comes from the base in the village of Veydelevka, Belgorod oblast, they set up in early April




The possible ammo storage is around 50.136018, 38.467635, the vehicle storage around 50.132257, 38.446655; camo tents around 50.132284, 38.448935-50.134564, 38.451472 and 50.133905, 38.447422-50.134937, 38.445880.
It might be too far for the CAESAR 155mm SPH which ranges 55km. with rocked-boosted shells, and 40km with standard ones and 1m accuracy (no need for expensive Excalibur guided shells, guess why the CAESAR is exporting so well), but it surely would be OK for M270 or Himars... If not, Thailand builds the Weishi WS-1B which ranges 180km under technology transfer grounds, the guidance software is Thai... Since Sudan has acquired an unconfirmed number of the advanced Chinese WS-2 Multiple Rocket launcher In 2009, it must be feasible to even buy a few directly from PRC for "test purposes"... WS-2 has 350 and 400 km ranged version and I thing they have INS, GPS and GLONASS guidance at the same time... It may be interesting to use some Chinese MLRS due to costs. Russians know well the Weishi rockets : their buddies Assad, Khamenei, do build copies, but thei never ended at their receiving end


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Breaking News! Breaking News! Breaking News! Breaking News!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529441070081359874

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## khansaheeb

_Nabil_ said:


> Bad news for you
> 
> View attachment 845897


You haven't included the rail route.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529419229979480065


----------



## MeFishToo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Breaking News! Breaking News! Breaking News! Breaking News!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529441070081359874


Must probably the same “encirclement” on three sides announced the last couple of days.
The real danger to the ukrainian forces is the russian airborne forces and wagner mercenaries west and northwest of Poposna. They seem to be the only russian forces able to do offensive operations. Ukraine will probably have to retreat from Severodonesk if those russian forces have the power to keep pushing north, because they will have to go all the way to the Donesk river themself, since the russian forces north of it cant seem to cross it.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529450815227928577


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## khansaheeb

Paul2 said:


> Only silo based missiles are really first strike grade - only they can be fired within minutes. Everything else is 2nd strike, or follow up to 1st strike, to finish an enemy.
> 
> If they fire everything they can physically fire, Russia gets 1500 warheads. Realistically, even a preplanned attack will see 800 warheads launched at most, if they really want to committ to all in attack on both EU, and USA.
> 
> Given that Russia will reserve something for China, and the fact we observed that they pick missiles from Siberian bases, and move them to the West for drills across the whole country, rather than firing missiles already there, they will only have missiles in European part of Russia firing.
> 
> 300-600 warheads instant launch, 200 more within 30 minutes. Nowhere near to even blunt NATO's conventional forces. There are more than 1000 military sites in France only.


You truly are detached from reality of nuclear war and talk about it as if it is a solution to all Europe's problems. Once nukes are used it will be the beginning of a catastrophe and suffering not seen in human history. What sort of like have you lived where you hate life so much that that you want to end it for yourself and others?


----------



## MeFishToo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529419229979480065


Thats nice of him. Being a ukrainian citizen in a territory occupied and terrorised by forces being spoon feed to hate ukraine for 10 years isnt going to be easy.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529452516152328193

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529481408535740417

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Nuclear Clown

Soldier35 said:


> The Russian military used the Ukrainian captured anti-tank complex "Stugna-P" to strike at the fortified positions of the Ukrainian army.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian soldiers carried a wounded Ukrainian soldier for two kilometers, who was abandoned by his squad, the video was published to show that there should be a manifestation of humanity even in war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> French self-propelled guns "Caesar" manufactured by Nexter were spotted in Ukraine. The Caesar self-propelled gun entered service in France in 2003. The ACS has a 155-mm caliber and can carry up to 18 shells, the installation crew is 5 people, but it is possible to control three. The ACS is equipped with a Sigma-30 fire control system, with a NAVSTAR navigation system receiver. The installation is easy to maintain and manage. The rate of fire of the ACS is 6 rounds per minute. The maximum firing range when using active-reactive ammunition is 42 km.


Actually, the CAESAR ranges 55km+ with rocket-boosted shells.
The long barrel and advanced computerised fire-control allow 1m accuracy at 40km WITHOUT GPS guided shells.





The Bofors/Nexter Bonus 155mm shell allows to blow 2 tanks with guided ammos similar to the sensor fused ones in the CBU-97/105 up to 55km if used with the CAESAR




US Army is now buying the BONUS too... Considering the US NIH syndrome, they try to NOT buy EU-made gear as much as possible, this shell must be freaking devastating : US Army already has the M712 Copperhead and the M982 Excalibur. Note that the NIH syndrome is more at the congress and senate level : the DoD is way more open, even saying they'd need more and more gear from European allies in the future, their choice for the A330-MRTT which was congress-torpedoed, or the recent order for 20 FREMM stealth frigates while they abandoned the insanely expensive Zumwalt-class stealth destroyer after only 3 purchases are rather good signs that their usual protectionism has became unworkable... Who knows, since F-35 has been deemed as unable to fill in the F-16's and F-18's job and there is no other game in town, what gen. Charles Q. Brown described as a need for USAF would definitively be filled in by Rafale, and for US-Navy/USMC too...


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529471876023701512

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

The desperation of Western powers is hilarious. They're panicking now to the point where they're begging the same President Moduro that they were trying to overthrow. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529382520558608384


----------



## DF41

John Mearsheimer explained so clearly and succinctly that the crassness and stupidity of USA in formenting and instigating
the war on Russia is making Russia and China to get a lot closer and in tighter friendship as both saw they facing a ruthless backstabbing evil untrust worthy common enemy USA out to try to destroy both of them.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529452517037318146

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529497805299253248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529453283026382849

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529490629989892097


----------



## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529453850775658496



*SEE HOW BLATANTLY WESTERN MSMs CAN TELL LIES  

IT IS MORE THAN LIKELY THAT WRECK WAS A UKRAINE WRECK, THAT NOW SERVE A DOUBLE LIFE
AS A RUSSIAN DOWNED CHOPPER *
*

*

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Ali_Baba

*Russia loses its highest-ranking pilot yet in Ukraine as former Air Force Major, 63, comes out of retirement… and is blasted out of the skies*









Russia loses its highest-ranking pilot yet in Ukraine


Major General Kanamat Botashev, 63 (pictured), was enjoying retirement when Russian tanks rolled across the border on February 24 and had not flown since 2012.




www.dailymail.co.uk

Reactions: Like Like:
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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529465155113066496


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529441324855959552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529488960497524737
The 11th regiment of the DPR destroys the troops of the Urkainsky Kaganate in Novomikhailovka.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529480650113355780


----------



## ckf

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529452517037318146


Zelensky said Ukraine has 700,000 troops in the frontline, now they are outnumber 7-1. US and EU getting hustled out of billions while thousands of Ukranians are killed, and Zelensky /his cronies stash billions in the Caymans. One day those billions will be worth less than dong hopefully.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529346973148536834

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529478554664189952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529395208533721089


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529467489863847936


----------



## Nuclear Clown

khansaheeb said:


> You truly are detached from reality of nuclear war and talk about it as if it is a solution to all Europe's problems. Once nukes are used it will be the beginning of a catastrophe and suffering not seen in human history. What sort of like have you lived where you hate life so much that that you want to end it for yourself and others?








Detached from reality? That's ABSOLUTELY the principle of the *M.A.D.* !!! 




You start a war, you sign your own death warrant! 
So you don't start a war because it's suicidal
Had Ukraine kept its 1700(?), 3000(?) nukes in the 90's, Butcher-Putler would NEVER had dared to invade !!! Without US stupidity in the 80's, PRC wouldn't be constantly rattling sabre about Taiwan... 
The fact we made Israel a nuclear power in the 60's was the MAJOR point that made Anwar el-Sadat opt for a genuine peace treaty, and later being followed by king Hussein... This is NOT detached from reality of nuclear war!

Mark my words, it wouldn't take more than Zelen announcing that they've found a hidden stockpile of a few warheads, then doing a little demo, e.g. blowing the Crimea bridge with a 50 kilotons one, which would end with no casualties except if there are ppl using the bridge when blown, would be enough to absolutely decide to pull out rather than escalating : someone with just a few warheads and being back to the wall is way more dangerous than having a large arsenal, and in such a case, there has already been a warning shot sending a message like... Moscow or St.Petersburg may follow... 
The other side doesn't know how few you may have and what yield, but you've just shown you're determined to use it! 
This is the Dirty Harry's "Go ahead! Make my day!" thing... 
Tell me, if you were Putin, even if you can blow a continent, would you think the invasion of Ukraine worths seeing Moscow and St. Pete razed and with 30,000 km² around becoming too radioactive to live in for many centuries, because this is how you proceed when you have few nukes : surface bursts will cover gigantic areas with fallouts, while an airburst will just be a gigantic boom, for sure, with huge damages but the area is re-useable... 
*THIS IS ABSOLUTELY HOW A NUCLEAR DETERRENT WORKS FOR MANY DECADES AND THAT IS WHY NATO AND THE WARSAW PACT NEVER ENTERED A DIRECT FIGHT... *

And this is also why I absolutely promote an _*EU NUCLEAR SHARING*_ but not based on 100 outdated *B61 *with 20 per each of the 5 countries...
I want 500 ASMPA-R : 300 kiloton, Mach3, stealth, range has been extended again, the ASMP ranged 300km+, ASMPA ranged 500km+ so the most likely now is about 750km, but it may be as high as 1000km... 




Moreover, MBDA proposed to convert the retired old ASMP to what they were intended first : replacing the Exocet!!! We have something similar to the BrahMos/Oniks for 32 years, and our idiots at the govt didn't even considered we could make huge money selling a conventional version... Moreover, huge advantage on the BrahMos/Oniks : 900kg instead of 2500kg... even LCAs have 900kg+ weapons-stations... 






Russian bomber in Irish air space ‘had nuclear weapon’


One of the two Russian ‘Bear’ bombers which flew into Irish-controlled airspace last week was reportedly carrying a nuclear weapon.




www.irishexaminer.com












Russia Just Threatened To Destroy Ireland And Britain With A Nuclear Tsunami


British support for Ukraine could trigger nuclear war, Russia warns.




www.forbes.com




Putin's nuclear blackmail is all about USA or France won't trade NYC or Paris for Helsinki" and 💩 like that, in fact, he may be right about the US, about France, it's way more risky : the French are way more likely to consider that if you go after any EU country, their asses are on the line any way...
500 ASMPA-R won't cost big: only €9bn which is peanuts at EU level, in fact, considering there are gaps in EU jet fighters inventories since our poorest => weakest members (militarily speaking) are at the EU's borders, even purchasing 60 squadrons of Rafales and 60 of Gripen (1080 of each) wouldn't be an issue...
From there, even those without any jet fighter now can start operating a significant air force and with nuclear missiles available,




Moreover, ground launching would just require a booster... We retired the Hades SRBM in 1997, it was similar to the Iskander, but there were two per TEL... Ever seen the kind of TEL we used?







There's a Swede company proposing to house missile systems into ISO containers now...




No need for NATO and Turkey can veto what it wants, they're not in the EU and with their leaders behaviours,it's nowhere near from happening.

Now, look at this...If you're Putler, still want to threaten Finland or the Baltic states knowing THIS? :




And I also advocate that the EU shall purchase 10 Triomphant class SSBNs with 160 M51.3 stealth SLBMs and 1600 MIRVs, to add to the 4 French owned ones...

Oh, as we are...
There are others proffering threats against EU members and claiming ownership on our lands, 








So, Yup, nukes, as well as no more having idiots believing that soft power is enough or that NATO is enough, or that only NATO can protect Europe, are part of the solution. 
We also must adopt a mandatory 2% GDP military spending in the EU, this may not forcedly mean an EU army, but it's clear that a rapid reaction force should be considered, as well as a gear pool...
And it'd be a good idea to inaugurate such RFF in Cyprus added with a naval blockade of the TRNC puppet state...

I may surely look like hawkish, I'm not. Those who are hawkish are those proferring nuclear threats on Finland, Sweden, Germany, Ireland, as well as invasion threats on Baltic States, as well as on Greece and Bulgaria as well as what remains of Cyprus, and kicking out their illegal occupation from the island... Some in countries like Ukraine, India, Israel, the Philippines, Vietnam, etc may tolerate the illegal occupation of parts of their countries for many decades, I consider that at EU level, we shall stop compromising and to no more tolerate even one square centimetre to remain illegally occupied.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529434912473894913
Footage of the destruction of the disguised warehouse of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Kamyshevakh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529390539333939202

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529229599401467904

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529479186720628736

Reactions: Like Like:
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## FuturePAF

The current Russian offensive in eastern Ukraine is probably the textbook example of how India would employ the cold start doctrine, IMHO. We should keep an eye on how the Ukrainians defend that area.






P.s. a good look at all the weapons supplied to Ukraine from outside powers during this war; can be very informative of the kinds of tactics that would have to be employed in a cold start scenario.


----------



## F-22Raptor

"If you look at the launches overall, we are talking well under half of all Russian missiles hitting their aim points," says a senior Defense Intelligence Agency official who is working on the war. The official, granted anonymity to discuss sensitive information, says that two to three out of every ten missiles fired fail to launch or fizzle during its flight. Two more have technical problems such as not fusing properly even if they fly to their intended range. Two to three more miss their aim-points even when they reach their intended target.

"Right now, we're holding Russian missile success at just below 40 percent," the DIA official says.

Ukraine says that it has shot down 110 Russian cruise missiles, almost 10 percent of those that make it into Ukrainian airspace.

"And then there's the question of what they [the Russians] are hitting, and what their intentions are even when they do succeed," the DIA official adds. "For a couple of days it's airfields and air defenses. Then the emphasis shifts to ammunition depots, then oil, then factories, then the transportation grid. In each case, we are not seeing effective attacks and we are seeing little if any follow-on strikes."

A strategic air campaign—in the way the United States conceives it—has not even been attempted, both officials agree. Like the failure to shut down Ukraine's air defenses, Russia has made no effort to attack the electrical power grid or civil communications.

"Shutting Zelensky down," the retired U.S. Air Force official says, puzzled. "I get it that they might not be able to take out the internet or the communications grid, but they haven't even tried."

"I don't know anything about your Zatoka bridge," the retired Air Force official says, "but so many of the targets I've looked at are marginal." He says that the Russians are 30 years behind the U.S. "They aren't prepared for this sustained level of operations, haven't grasped the importance of effects-based targeting [as opposed to physical destruction], don't seem to have good BDA [battle damage assessment] and certainly don't have any kind of dynamic targeting."









Exclusive: Russia's Air War in Ukraine is a Total Failure, New Data Show


Russia has fired more missiles in the Ukraine war than have been fired by any country in any conflict since WWII—and has shockingly little to show for it.




www.newsweek.com






The US assesses Russian missile effectiveness to be under 40%.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Sharma Ji

F-22Raptor said:


> "If you look at the launches overall, we are talking well under half of all Russian missiles hitting their aim points," says a senior Defense Intelligence Agency official who is working on the war. The official, granted anonymity to discuss sensitive information, says that two to three out of every ten missiles fired fail to launch or fizzle during its flight. Two more have technical problems such as not fusing properly even if they fly to their intended range. Two to three more miss their aim-points even when they reach their intended target.
> 
> "Right now, we're holding Russian missile success at just below 40 percent," the DIA official says.
> 
> Ukraine says that it has shot down 110 Russian cruise missiles, almost 10 percent of those that make it into Ukrainian airspace.
> 
> "And then there's the question of what they [the Russians] are hitting, and what their intentions are even when they do succeed," the DIA official adds. "For a couple of days it's airfields and air defenses. Then the emphasis shifts to ammunition depots, then oil, then factories, then the transportation grid. In each case, we are not seeing effective attacks and we are seeing little if any follow-on strikes."
> 
> A strategic air campaign—in the way the United States conceives it—has not even been attempted, both officials agree. Like the failure to shut down Ukraine's air defenses, Russia has made no effort to attack the electrical power grid or civil communications.
> 
> "Shutting Zelensky down," the retired U.S. Air Force official says, puzzled. "I get it that they might not be able to take out the internet or the communications grid, but they haven't even tried."
> 
> "I don't know anything about your Zatoka bridge," the retired Air Force official says, "but so many of the targets I've looked at are marginal." He says that the Russians are 30 years behind the U.S. "They aren't prepared for this sustained level of operations, haven't grasped the importance of effects-based targeting [as opposed to physical destruction], don't seem to have good BDA [battle damage assessment] and certainly don't have any kind of dynamic targeting."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exclusive: Russia's Air War in Ukraine is a Total Failure, New Data Show
> 
> 
> Russia has fired more missiles in the Ukraine war than have been fired by any country in any conflict since WWII—and has shockingly little to show for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newsweek.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The US assesses Russian missile effectiveness to be under 40%.


Apart from failed missiles, they're also crashing all their planes, and their soldiers are being taken hostage.. they are losing like nobody's ever lost before.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529517667505274886


----------



## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529397017633505281


----------



## nang2

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529397017633505281


When did Russians attempt the big encirclement? Did Russians ever claim they wanted to do a big encirclement?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529552751486705666

Russian losses now over 4,100


----------



## Nuclear Clown

Sharma Ji said:


> Apart from failed missiles, they're also crashing all their planes, and their soldiers are being taken hostage.. they are losing like nobody's ever lost before.


One thing for sure : they have severe issues with tanks:
*T-62 tanks with additional DIY armor spot in Polohy district of Zaporizhzhia region*








ЗАПОРІЖЖЯ.ІНФО 🎄


❗️В Пологівському районі їздять по околицям танки Т62 з кустарно начіпленею бронею на них 😱 Таке враження що зараз шістдесяті роки.Що буде далі Т55? - пише наш читач А там і Т-34 з постаментів пам'ятників підтягнутися🤣




tinyurl.com




*Echelon with T-62 tanks arrived in Melitopol, occupied part of Zaporizhzhia region*








InformNapalm


Эшелон с Т-62 о котором мы сегодня писали - прибыл в Мелитополь. https://youtube.com/shorts/5KW01l6-bcs?feature=share




tinyurl.com




Added with the fact that both the UVZ and ChVZ tank factories production lines have been shut down.
Is the shut down linked to the sanctions?
Is taking obsolete T-62 (production : 1961-1975) out of the closet linked with...








I've noticed that his less into turret throwing but as funny cousin St. Milan is around too, and Saint Milan does well for much cheaper:




Some say that St. Mistral, St. Starstreak and St. Stinger might be no stranger to more than 200 Russian aircraft and more than 150 helicopters having crashed over Ukraine...








Some say it can't be real :




the Devil's Triangle must have moved to Ukraine!
Russian aircraft have always beaten NATO gear
Such picture of a Mirage were already propaganda in the 60's/70's




Unfortunately, I don't agree with you : despite Gondor inflicting tremendous losses to Mordor's Orcs, some Hobbits and Wizards are needed! Mac'Ron must stop beating around the bush!
Saint Rafale is needed!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## nang2

Raffie said:


> One thing for sure : they have severe issues with tanks:
> *T-62 tanks with additional DIY armor spot in Polohy district of Zaporizhzhia region*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ЗАПОРІЖЖЯ.ІНФО 🎄
> 
> 
> ❗️В Пологівському районі їздять по околицям танки Т62 з кустарно начіпленею бронею на них 😱 Таке враження що зараз шістдесяті роки.Що буде далі Т55? - пише наш читач А там і Т-34 з постаментів пам'ятників підтягнутися🤣
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinyurl.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Echelon with T-62 tanks arrived in Melitopol, occupied part of Zaporizhzhia region*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> InformNapalm
> 
> 
> Эшелон с Т-62 о котором мы сегодня писали - прибыл в Мелитополь. https://youtube.com/shorts/5KW01l6-bcs?feature=share
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinyurl.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Added with the fact that both the UVZ and ChVZ tank factories production lines have been shut down.
> Is the shut down linked to the sanctions?
> Is taking obsolete T-62 (production : 1961-1975) out of the closet linked with...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've noticed that his less into turret throwing but as funny cousin St. Milan is around too, and Saint Milan does well for much cheaper:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some say that St. Mistral, St. Starstreak and St. Stinger might be no stranger to more than 200 Russian aircraft and more than 150 helicopters having crashed over Ukraine...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some say it can't be real :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the Devil's Triangle must have moved to Ukraine!
> Russian aircraft have always beaten NATO gear
> Such picture of a Mirage were already propaganda in the 60's/70's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't agree with you : despite Gondor inflicting tremendous losses to Mordor's Orcs, some Hobbits and Wizards are needed! Mac'Ron must stop beating around the bush!
> Saint Rafale is needed!!!


This is an old video of Russia shipping T62s to Syria

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Nuclear Clown

nang2 said:


> This is an old video of Russia shipping T62s to Syria


Probably just to illustrate as no pics/vid could be taken, there are multiple sources confirming the Orcs are now sending obsolete tanks as they're running out of T-72/80/90... Well, I'd like to see if T-14 Armata does great at the turret throwing world contest


----------



## Paul2

khansaheeb said:


> You truly are detached from reality of nuclear war and talk about it as if it is a solution to all Europe's problems. Once nukes are used it will be the beginning of a catastrophe and suffering not seen in human history. What sort of like have you lived where you hate life so much that that you want to end it for yourself and others?


War is a lot of deaths


----------



## khansaheeb

Raffie said:


> Detached from reality? That's ABSOLUTELY the principle of the *M.A.D.* !!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You start a war, you sign your own death warrant!
> So you don't start a war because it's suicidal
> Had Ukraine kept its 1700(?), 3000(?) nukes in the 90's, Butcher-Putler would NEVER had dared to invade !!! Without US stupidity in the 80's, PRC wouldn't be constantly rattling sabre about Taiwan...
> The fact we made Israel a nuclear power in the 60's was the MAJOR point that made Anwar el-Sadat opt for a genuine peace treaty, and later being followed by king Hussein... This is NOT detached from reality of nuclear war!
> 
> Mark my words, it wouldn't take more than Zelen announcing that they've found a hidden stockpile of a few warheads, then doing a little demo, e.g. blowing the Crimea bridge with a 50 kilotons one, which would end with no casualties except if there are ppl using the bridge when blown, would be enough to absolutely decide to pull out rather than escalating : someone with just a few warheads and being back to the wall is way more dangerous than having a large arsenal, and in such a case, there has already been a warning shot sending a message like... Moscow or St.Petersburg may follow...
> The other side doesn't know how few you may have and what yield, but you've just shown you're determined to use it!
> This is the Dirty Harry's "Go ahead! Make my day!" thing...
> Tell me, if you were Putin, even if you can blow a continent, would you think the invasion of Ukraine worths seeing Moscow and St. Pete razed and with 30,000 km² around becoming too radioactive to live in for many centuries, because this is how you proceed when you have few nukes : surface bursts will cover gigantic areas with fallouts, while an airburst will just be a gigantic boom, for sure, with huge damages but the area is re-useable...
> *THIS IS ABSOLUTELY HOW A NUCLEAR DETERRENT WORKS FOR MANY DECADES AND THAT IS WHY NATO AND THE WARSAW PACT NEVER ENTERED A DIRECT FIGHT... *
> 
> And this is also why I absolutely promote an _*EU NUCLEAR SHARING*_ but not based on 100 outdated *B61 *with 20 per each of the 5 countries...
> I want 500 ASMPA-R : 300 kiloton, Mach3, stealth, range has been extended again, the ASMP ranged 300km+, ASMPA ranged 500km+ so the most likely now is about 750km, but it may be as high as 1000km...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moreover, MBDA proposed to convert the retired old ASMP to what they were intended first : replacing the Exocet!!! We have something similar to the BrahMos/Oniks for 32 years, and our idiots at the govt didn't even considered we could make huge money selling a conventional version... Moreover, huge advantage on the BrahMos/Oniks : 900kg instead of 2500kg... even LCAs have 900kg+ weapons-stations...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian bomber in Irish air space ‘had nuclear weapon’
> 
> 
> One of the two Russian ‘Bear’ bombers which flew into Irish-controlled airspace last week was reportedly carrying a nuclear weapon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.irishexaminer.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Just Threatened To Destroy Ireland And Britain With A Nuclear Tsunami
> 
> 
> British support for Ukraine could trigger nuclear war, Russia warns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin's nuclear blackmail is all about USA or France won't trade NYC or Paris for Helsinki" and 💩 like that, in fact, he may be right about the US, about France, it's way more risky : the French are way more likely to consider that if you go after any EU country, their asses are on the line any way...
> 500 ASMPA-R won't cost big: only €9bn which is peanuts at EU level, in fact, considering there are gaps in EU jet fighters inventories since our poorest => weakest members (militarily speaking) are at the EU's borders, even purchasing 60 squadrons of Rafales and 60 of Gripen (1080 of each) wouldn't be an issue...
> From there, even those without any jet fighter now can start operating a significant air force and with nuclear missiles available,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moreover, ground launching would just require a booster... We retired the Hades SRBM in 1997, it was similar to the Iskander, but there were two per TEL... Ever seen the kind of TEL we used?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's a Swede company proposing to house missile systems into ISO containers now...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No need for NATO and Turkey can veto what it wants, they're not in the EU and with their leaders behaviours,it's nowhere near from happening.
> 
> Now, look at this...If you're Putler, still want to threaten Finland or the Baltic states knowing THIS? :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I also advocate that the EU shall purchase 10 Triomphant class SSBNs with 160 M51.3 stealth SLBMs and 1600 MIRVs, to add to the 4 French owned ones...
> 
> Oh, as we are...
> There are others proffering threats against EU members and claiming ownership on our lands,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, Yup, nukes, as well as no more having idiots believing that soft power is enough or that NATO is enough, or that only NATO can protect Europe, are part of the solution.
> We also must adopt a mandatory 2% GDP military spending in the EU, this may not forcedly mean an EU army, but it's clear that a rapid reaction force should be considered, as well as a gear pool...
> And it'd be a good idea to inaugurate such RFF in Cyprus added with a naval blockade of the TRNC puppet state...
> 
> I may surely look like hawkish, I'm not. Those who are hawkish are those proferring nuclear threats on Finland, Sweden, Germany, Ireland, as well as invasion threats on Baltic States, as well as on Greece and Bulgaria as well as what remains of Cyprus, and kicking out their illegal occupation from the island... Some in countries like Ukraine, India, Israel, the Philippines, Vietnam, etc may tolerate the illegal occupation of parts of their countries for many decades, I consider that at EU level, we shall stop compromising and to no more tolerate even one square centimetre to remain illegally occupied.



So , it is ok for everyone to have nukes as a deterrent, and if they have an issue then they should use nukes? Why are you Europeans so detached from humanity and peace that you don't want to live and let others live? Crazy man, crazy.


----------



## MeFishToo

khansaheeb said:


> So , it is ok for everyone to have nukes as a deterrent, and if they have an issue then they should use nukes? Why are you Europeans so detached from humanity and peace that you don't want to live and let others live? Crazy man, crazy.


I could be wrong, but are you insinuating us Europeans are any different than the rest of the world?


----------



## Wood

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/uxfq8q


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529562910443413505


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529540766590279686


----------



## khansaheeb

MeFishToo said:


> I could be wrong, but are you insinuating us Europeans are any different than the rest of the world?


I am not insinuating I am stating my belief. Why are you Europeans trying to take the world to a nuclear holocaust?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## MeFishToo

khansaheeb said:


> I am not insinuating I am stating my belief. Why are you Europeans trying to take the world to a nuclear holocaust?


Are we? Seems to me only Russia is mentioning their nuclear capabilities. I have not seen France or the UK doing that. 
Nuclear armed countries outside Europe have conflicts too. Doesnt mean any if these countries are seeking nuclear holocaust.
Russia is not going nuclear because Russia is not fighting an existential war. The russian leadership is just trying to scare the rest of us from helping Ukraine. They want to annex as they please.
Me personally, I think NATO should have send a few hundred planes and surface to air defence systems to cover western Ukraine the moment Russia attacked.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529574867447816194

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529569799998775299


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## Hassan Al-Somal

LEVI _*🌍*_
*The main events of May 25*

_*⚡️*_*Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry*

_*💥*_*High-precision long-range air- and sea-based missiles* have destroyed the *production facilities of Motor Sich plant*, which produced aircraft engines for combat aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force, including UAVs.

_*▫️*_In addition, units of the *Ukrainian Armed Forces reserve* deployed to reinforce the grouping of Ukrainian troops in Donbass have been destroyed near Pokrovskoe railway station in Dnepropetrovsk Region.

_*💥*_*High-precision air-based missiles *have hit *3* command posts, including *1* command post of the 14th Mechanised Brigade and *1* communications hub , *1* AFU radio technical centre near, *1* logistics centre of the 72nd Motorised Infantry Brigade, *2* fuel bases, *2* air defence radar posts and military equipment, and *16* areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration

_*✈️💥*_*Operational-tactical and army aviation *have hit *2* missile-artillery weapons and ammunition depots , the *territorial defence headquarters* and *46* areas of manpower and military equipment concentration.

_*▫️*_The attacks have resulted in the elimination of more than *300* nationalists and up to *46* armoured and motor vehicles.

_*💥*_*Missile troops and artillery* have hit *51* command posts, 385 areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration, as well as *53* artillery and mortar units at firing positions.

*Dollar/Euro - Ruble exchange rate*

Dollar - 55
Euro - 57

*Liberated territory*

_*⚡️❗️*_Putin signed a decree on a simplified procedure for obtaining citizenship of the Russian Federation for residents of the Zaporozhye and Kherson regions of Ukraine.

_*▫️*_The centers for issuing passports of the Russian Federation in the Kherson region are already ready, in Zaporozhye they‘ll be ready in a few days.

*Mariupol

▫️*Investigative-operational groups began to work in Mariupol to collect evidence of war crimes committed by Azov.

_*▫️*_DPR regional police departments began work in Mariupol

*Russia

▫️*MFA rejects possibility of exchanging Azov fighters before trial

_*▫️*_The beta version of RuStore, a Russian app store for Android , has been launched, it has more than 100 applications, including those that have been sanctioned e.g banks.

_*▫️*_The upper age limit for those wishing to serve in the army under (first) contract has been canceled

_*▫️*_The minimum wage and pensions will increased by 10% from June 1.

_*▫️*_Putin instructed the government to increase payments to Russian military personnel operating in Ukraine

_*▫️*_Support for female military personnel with children will be doubled and amount to more than 30 thousand rubles

_*▫️*_A large family in the Russian Federation should establish itself as the norm

*Daily Dose of Diarrhea - Poland 

▫️*The Polish authorities proposed introducing an additional duty for countries that continue to buy oil from the Russian Federation after other states refuse such supplies.

*Daily Dose of Diarrhea - EU

▫️*The European Commission officially proposed to consider the circumvention of sanctions as a crime at the EU level

*Daily Dose of Diarrhea a - Ukraine

▫️*The General Staff of Ukraine proposes to start mass arrests of soldiers who film and publish videos of appeals, crises and problems in the army

_*▫️*_Ukrainian Foreign Minister Kuleba said that the situation in Donbas is extremely bad for Ukrainian troops

_*▫️*_Kuleba said that Kiev has no "preconditions" for the resumption of diplomatic negotiations with Russia

*China + Russia + India + Iran*

_*▫️*_*Russia and Iran are discussing the joint implementation of oil and gas projects

▫️Russia and Iran will make maximum use of national currencies in mutual settlements

▫️Russia and Iran will unite their national payment systems, which will operate on the territory of both countries

▫️The Russian Federation welcomes China's proposal to expand BRICS

▫️Iran may become the main transport hub for imports and exports from Russia*

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## KAL-EL

khansaheeb said:


> You truly are detached from reality of nuclear war and talk about it as if it is a solution to all Europe's problems. Once nukes are used it will be the beginning of a catastrophe and suffering not seen in human history. What sort of like have you lived where you hate life so much that that you want to end it for yourself and others?



A lot of sofa generals here

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529549272307449856


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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MAY 25​May 25, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF
*Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, May 25
Kateryna Stepanenko, Karolina Hird, Frederick W. Kagan, and George Barros
May 25, 7:15 pm ET*​* 
Some pro-Russian milbloggers on Telegram continued to criticize the Kremlin for appalling treatment of forcefully mobilized Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DNR and LNR) servicemen–contradicting Russian information campaigns about progress of the Russian special military operation. *Former Russian Federal Security Service officer Igor Girkin (also known by the alias Igor Strelkov) amplified a critique to his 360,000 followers from a smaller milblogger discussing a video wherein a DNR battalion appealed to DNR Head Denis Pushilin about maltreatment of forcefully mobilized forces.[1] The milblogger blamed Russian leadership, not Pushilin, for beginning the invasion with insufficient reserves and unprepared, forcefully mobilized forces. The milblogger added that Russia did not provide the soldiers of its proxy republics with new weapons, despite claiming that Ukrainian forces prepared to attack occupied Donbas areas for a year prior to Russian invasion. The milblogger also claimed that the Kremlin failed to mobilize and adequately prepare the next batch of reserves, while Ukrainian forces are successfully preparing their troops for counteroffensives. Girkin also criticized the Kremlin for failing to pay the DNR battalion for three months. Some milbloggers claimed that Ukrainian forces staged the video, but the video still gathered attention of pro-Russian Telegram users.[2]
The incident highlights a continuing shift in the Russian-language milblogger information space regardless of the video’s authenticity. Milbloggers would likely have either attacked or dismissed such a video loudly and in near-unison earlier in the war, when they all generally focused on presenting optimistic pro-Russian and anti-Ukrainian narratives. The response to this video in the Russian-language milblogger space demonstrates the strong resonance anti-Kremlin narratives can now have. It is impossible to know what effect this change in this information space might have on general perceptions of the war in Russia, but it is one of the most visible and noteworthy inflections in the attitudes of previously strongly pro-Kremlin ostensibly independent Russian voices speaking to Russians that we have yet seen.
Today’s statement by DNR Militia Head Eduard Basurin explaining that Russian forces would focus on creating “smaller cauldrons” rather than on a single large encirclement is likely in part a response to a critique that surfaced both in the milblogger space and in the Russian Duma that Russian forces had failed to form and reduce “cauldrons” of the sort they used in 2014.[3] Basurin’s statement, along with other changes in the ways in which Russian officials have spoken about cauldrons and Russian operations in the east following those critiques suggest that the Russian and proxy leadership is sensitive to shifts in this information space.[4]
*Russian forces are increasingly facing a deficiency in high-precision weaponry. *The Ukrainian General Staff reported that due to an increasing lack of high-precision weapons Russian forces are seeking other methods of striking critical infrastructure and have intensified the use of aircraft to support offensives.[5] The Ukrainian Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) noted that up to 60% of Russia’s high-precision stockpile has already been exhausted, which is consistent with previous reports by Western defense officials that Russian forces have been increasingly relying on “dumb bombs” because they are facing challenges replenishing their supplies of precision munitions in part due to sanctions targeting Russia’s defense-industrial production.[6] A lack of high-precision weapons will likely result in an increase in indiscriminate attacks on critical and civilian infrastructure.
*The Kremlin is attempting to expand the pool of Russian passport-holders in occupied areas.* Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a decree on May 25 that will simplify the procedure for obtaining a Russian passport within Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts.[7] This renewed campaign of so-called ”mass passportization” is occurring in occupied territories and likely represents an effort to set conditions for some sort of post-conflict political arrangement (the precise form of which Putin prefers remains unclear) through manipulating access to Russian citizenship.[8] Occupation authorities may additionally attempt to exploit this new decree to carry out covert mobilization in occupied areas, as having a Russian passport would make conscription-eligible residents of occupied territories subject to forced military service.
*The Kremlin and Russian military commanders are introducing new regulations aimed at addressing the diminishing level of combat-ready reserves. *The Russian State Duma and the Russian Federation Council passed a bill raising the maximum age for voluntary enlistment into the Russian military from 40 to 50.[9] Russian Telegram channels also reported that Russian leadership forced operational officers and commanders of the Russian Border Guards of southern Russian regions including Rostov Oblast and occupied Crimea to indefinitely cancel all summer vacations--a rather unsurprising step in light of the military situation in principle, but an indication of the next source of manpower to which Putin will apparently turn.[10] Russian Border Guards will reportedly deploy to training grounds for unspecified exercises in late May. The Ukrainian General Staff also reported that Russian forces are forming new reserve units within the Southern Military District.[11]
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces prioritized advances east and west of Popasna in order to cut Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) southwest of Severodonetsk and complete encirclement efforts in Luhansk Oblast.*
*Russian forces have likely entered Lyman and may use this foothold to coordinate with advances southeast of Izyum to launch an offensive on Siversk.*
*Russian forces may start the Battle of Severodonetsk prior to completely cutting off Ukrainian GLOCs southwest and northwest of Severodonetsk.*
*Russian forces struck Zaporizhzhia City in an attempt to disrupt a key logistics hub for Ukrainian forces operating in the east.*
*

*
*
We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.
ISW has updated its assessment of the four primary efforts Russian forces are engaged in at this time. We have stopped coverage of Mariupol as a separate effort since the city’s fall. We had added a new section on activities in Russian-occupied areas:*

Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate main effort- Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
Supporting effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting effort 2—Southern axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
The Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) Militia Head Eduard Basurin confirmed that Russian forces have adopted an approach of creating smaller cauldrons to deprive Ukrainian troops of logistics and reinforcements, rather than pursuing a single large-scale encirclement on the Donetsk Oblast administrative border.[12] ISW has previously assessed that Russian commanders have likely abandoned the objective of completing a large-scale encirclement of Ukrainian forces in Donbas.[13]
Russian forces prioritized three advances east and west of Popasna in an effort to cut Ukrainian GLOCs southwest of Severodonetsk and complete the Luhansk Oblast cauldron. Russian forces continued to advance east of Popasna to seize settlements on the T1303 highway to Lysyschansk, northeast to cut Ukrainian access to T1302 highway from Bakhmut to Lysychansk, and southwest along the T0504 highway from Popasna toward Bakhmut.[14] Russian forces reportedly made advances towards Bakhmut from Svitlodarsk, a settlement just north of Debaltseve, and continued heavy shelling likely in preparations for a ground offensive.[15]
Russian forces seem to be prioritizing efforts to cut the two highways to Severodonetsk over launching offensive operations on Bakhmut at this time.[16] Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai refuted reports that Russian forces had cut off or blocked the T1302 highway on May 25.[17] Russian forces are unlikely to completely isolate Ukrainian forces from GLOCs just by seizing the southwestern T1303 and T1302 highways to Severodonetsk given the network of alternate if smaller roads in the region and will need to block or disrupt Bakhmut and Siversk to complete the Luhansk cauldron.
Russian efforts to isolate Severodonetsk and Lysychansk may not be well synchronized in time and space with an impending direct Russian assault on Severdonetsk, although it is too soon to tell. The Russians are likely some days away from even cutting off the GLOCs to Severdonetsk and Lysychansk, and it would likely take some time for the disruption of those GLOCs to affect the cities’ defenders’ abilities to continue fighting. The intensity of Russian artillery and air attack, however, combined with the massing of Russian forces drawn from elsewhere in theater for the assault on Severodonetsk suggests that the assault could be launched before the GLOCs have been cut or before their disruption could have a material effect. The drive to cut the GLOCs could also be an effort to create an outer encirclement ring, however, to prevent Ukrainian forces from attempting to reinforce Severodonetsk as it is attacked or to relieve it if it is isolated or falls.
Russian forces may need to conduct a ground offensive on Severodonetsk in upcoming days to maintain their pace after committing a significant portion of personnel, artillery, aviation, and logistics to the front.[18] The Ukrainian Defense Ministry reported that Russian forces conducted offensive operations in the vicinity of Severodonetsk and Lysychansk on May 25.[19] Haidai stated that Russian forces will lose the momentum of their heavy shelling and motivation if they do not launch an attack on Severodonetsk by Sunday.[20] Haidai reported that Russian forces already committed over 10,000 troops - approximately 25 battalion tactical groups (BTGs) composed on 300 to 500 servicemen each - and military equipment including S-400 surface-to-air missile systems.[21] Russian military commanders likely had to withdraw these forces from other axes, slowing down Russian advances in Zaporizhia, Donetsk, and Kharkiv Oblasts. Russian forces have also reportedly reached mortar range of Severodonetsk.[22]
Russian forces continued unsuccessful attempts to improve tactical positions in the direction of Slovyansk and advance southeast of Izyum on May 25. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces unsuccessfully attempted to launch another ground assault on Dovhenke, approximately 18km south of Izyum.[23] Russian forces also tried to advance towards Lyman from the Izyum area but did not gain any new ground from this direction.[24]
Social media videos of Russian soldiers claiming to have entered Lyman from the east suggest that Ukrainian forces could have withdrawn from the settlement on May 25.[25] Russian forces in Izyum could possibly try to coordinate efforts with Russian units in Lyman to launch an offensive on Siversk, a settlement located on a major highway 30km west of Severodonetsk. An offensive on Siversk would assist Russian forces in cutting Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Severodonetsk from the northwest.
Russian forces unsuccessfully attempted to seize settlements east and west of Avdiivka, and did not achieve any territorial gains on Donetsk-Zaporizhia Oblast border.[26] Russian forces reportedly shelled railway tracks near Avdiivka on May 25, likely to further shake up Ukrainian fortifications in the area.[27] Unconfirmed social media reports reiterated that Russian forces made advances to encircle Ukrainian positions from the northwest, but ISW cannot independently confirm these claims.[28]







*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces intensified artillery attacks against Ukrainian positions and focused on maintaining and regaining control of territory north of Kharkiv City on May 25.[29] The Ukrainian General Staff stated that Russian forces shelled Ternova, Ruski Tyshky, and Rubizhne and that Russian troops attempted a ground offensive near Ternova, indicating that control of settlements in northern Kharkiv Oblast remains contested.[30] Russian forces did not make any confirmed advances on this axis on May 25.




*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces focused on improving their tactical positions and conducted air, rocket, missile, and artillery strikes along the Southern Axis on May 25.[31] Ukrainian Southern Operational Command reported that Russian troops clashed with Ukrainian defense in northeastern Mykolaiv Oblast while attempting to advance towards Kryvyi Rih.[32] Russian forces conducted a rocket strike against residential areas of Zaporizhzhia City, which the Russian Defense Ministry claimed was an attack on Ukrainian production workshops at the Motor Sich plant.[33] The direct attack on Zaporizhzhia City is likely intended to disrupt a key logistics hub for the Ukrainian army operating in the east. Russian forces additionally fired on areas Kryvyi Rih and elsewhere in Dnipropetrovsk Oblast, Mykolaiv, and Kherson Oblasts.[34] Ukrainian Southern Operational Command noted that the Russian grouping in Crimea continued to bolster air defense and deployed two additional S-400 anti-aircraft missile divisions to the northwestern part of Crimea.[35]




*Activity in Russian-occupied areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Occupation authorities continued to take measures to consolidate administrative control of occupied territories on May 25. Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a decree on May 25 that simplifies the procedure for obtaining Russian passports in Zaporizhia and Kherson Oblasts.[36] The Ukrainian Resistance Center referred to this decree as an attempt at “mass passportization,” which is likely an indicator that occupation authorities could seek to facilitate annexation directly into the Russian Federation and strengthen administrative control over occupied areas.[37] Russian occupiers in Kherson Oblast are reportedly trying to force locals into occupied areas to cooperate with occupation organs and are attempting to mobilize Ukrainians into the Russian army.[38] Russian forces around occupied Berdyansk and Vasylivka are reportedly blocking exits from the cities with concrete slabs, indicating that occupation authorities seek to stem the flow of people from occupied territories and allow for the implementation of further controls.[39]
Russian forces continued to strengthen occupation control in Mariupol on May 25. The Russian Defense Ministry claimed that Russian and proxy forces completed the demining of the seaport and that the city is beginning to function on more regular basis.[40] Advisor to the Mayor of Mariupol Petro Andryushchenko stated that authorities of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) are beginning a new policy in Mariupol wherein citizens will be eligible to directly obtain Russian passports without obtaining DNR passports.[41] Such “passportization” measures may be intended to further set conditions for the direct annexation of Mariupol into the Russian Federation. Occupation authorities additionally continued filtration and deportation measures in Mariupol under the supervision of Federal State Security (FSB) agents and Russian “volunteers.”[42]
*Immediate items to watch*

Russian forces are likely reinforcing their grouping north of Kharkiv City to prevent further advances of the Ukrainian counteroffensive towards the Russian border. Russan forces may commit elements of the 1st Tank Army to Northern Kharkiv in the near future.
Russian forces are prioritizing cutting off two major highways to Severodonetsk but may start to storm the city before they successfully cut GLOCs.
Occupation forces in Mariupol will continue to strengthen administrative control of the city but are likely unsure as to what the ultimate annexation policy will be.
Russian forces are likely preparing for Ukrainian counteroffensives and settling in for protracted operations in Southern Ukraine.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529560627244564480

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## khansaheeb

MeFishToo said:


> Are we? Seems to me only Russia is mentioning their nuclear capabilities. I have not seen France or the UK doing that.
> Nuclear armed countries outside Europe have conflicts too. Doesnt mean any if these countries are seeking nuclear holocaust.
> Russia is not going nuclear because Russia is not fighting an existential war. The russian leadership is just trying to scare the rest of us from helping Ukraine. They want to annex as they please.
> Me personally, I think NATO should have send a few hundred planes and surface to air defence systems to cover western Ukraine the moment Russia attacked.


Too much nuke talk from dirty mouths, let's not even talk about it. For those who believe in Nuclear war let them put their hands on a burning stove so that they can have a taste.

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## DF41

MeFishToo said:


> . They want to annex as they please.
> Me personally, I think NATO should have send a few hundred planes and surface to air defence systems to cover western Ukraine the moment Russia attacked.









What you want is that USA/NATO and rest of underlings can annex Ukraine and Russia should
leave that alone.

And step aside and smile as Ukraine Nazis armed by USA/NATO and encourage and instigated to go on killing and terrorising Russian speakers in Ukraine TO POKE THE BEAR IN THE EYE.







Russia got more honour and dignity in her last finger than all of USA and NATO axis of evil






.

*CHINA SEE THE ATTEMPT TO TAKE DOWN /WEAKEN RUSSIA IS THE PRECURSOR OF USA TO ATTACK CHINA*

And China and much of rest of the world standing with Russia

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529459668820578304


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## Viet

wahhab0202 said:


> Very hard for me to imagine this war -with the repercussions- will last for 2-3 years let alone 10 years. The world economy is taking a very hard hit from pandemic and in hard labor to recover. I haven't talk about food and energy crisis which is like that pouring the gasoline to the fire. We are very close to a breaking point.
> Anyway, we shall see which side is more resilient and steadfast with their objective. Russian seems to be self-sufficient with the food and energy. They have few allies to support them in the area where they need help such technology. On the other side, Ukraine has whole western world to support them. How long it will last, we shall see. The rest of the world are watching nervously the implications of this conflict. For the time being we could rule out nuclear catastrophe but the economic consequences is unbearable for many countries.


This war is just 4 months. A snapshot of time. the war between Rome and Carthage lasts 70y. The war between Vietnam and Champa last 500y. However I don’t think this war will continue so long.
Putin is 70y old now, the war will end once he dies. His daughters will unlikely continue the war.


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## wahhab0202

Viet said:


> This war is just 4 months. A snapshot of time. the war between Rome and Carthage lasts 70y. The war between Vietnam and Champa last 500y. However I don’t think this war will continue so long.
> Putin is 70y old now, the war will end once he dies. His daughters will unlikely continue the war.


Unless the wars in past didn't have a global impacts like today. World economy and politics were not as intermingle as they are today. 
You'd better be careful with your wish. We don't who is down the line will replace Putin, what they are capable of and whether they are less or more hawkish than Putin. Seeing the 1st two weeks of this war I had an impression that Putin is being softer than a usual Russian leader should be. I don't know, I could be wrong.


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## NotSure

Hakwa Nadro said:


> thats the best you can do


Nope. More turkish garbage:

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## MeFishToo

DF41 said:


> What you want is that USA/NATO and rest of underlings can annex Ukraine and Russia should leave that alone.
> 
> And step aside and smile as Ukraine Nazis armed by USA/NATO and encourage and instigated to go on killing and terrorising Russian speakers in Ukraine TO POKE THE BEAR IN THE EYE.


Im sorry, but Im not some pro-russian anti-western internet warrior. So this russian propaganda narrative of Ukraine being nazis killing and terrorising russian speakers is not an argument. Preach to the choir, not me.

Aiding Ukraine in its existensial war against an invader has nothing to do with annexation. Its just your parotting russian propaganda, as always?

I think the west should aid Ukraine in any way possible on ukrainian territory, forget about this talk of nuclear war, and let Putin worry about that. Russia being a bear is nothing but a russian ghost story.


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## MeFishToo

DF41 said:


> You and the crap you sprout be going to where sun and moon not shine and cockroaches crawl and roam


Exactly. I was replying to you, wasnt I?

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## Soldier35

There were shots of the retreat of individual units of the Ukrainian army from the territory of the Red Estuary. The settlement of Krasny Liman is of strategic importance in Ukraine, since it opens up directions for advancing towards Slavyansk with Kramatorsk and towards the grouping of Kiev forces concentrated near Lisichansk and Severodonetsk.






Russian troops launched a missile attack on the Ukrainian plant "Motor Sich" in Zaporozhye. As a result of the missile strike, the plant's workshops and the administrative building were destroyed. The Ukrainian plant "Motor Sich" was engaged in the production, repair and maintenance of aircraft engines and also produced parts for Turkish UAVs "Bayraktar" and "Akinsi".






In Ukraine, a self-propelled mortar of a colossal 240-mm caliber was spotted near Severodonetsk. The king of Russian mortars, like many Russian artillery, is romantically named 2C4 "Tulip". The pretty name of the flower hides a monstrous power that inspires fear and respect, by the way, the shot of its 130 kilogram mine leaves a funnel in the ground with a diameter of 10 and a depth of almost 6 meters. Now there are no analogues of the Russian "Tulip": it significantly surpasses conventional artillery and is a record holder. 2C4 "Tulip" is designed primarily for the destruction of bunkers and fortified positions.

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## StraightEdge

Defence of Ukraine on Twitter: "russian TOS-1A shelling Ukrainian positions near Novomykhailivka, Donetsk region. This is what the the largest and most horrific war of the 21st century looks like. Ukraine is ready to strike back. To do this, we need NATO-style MLRS. Immediately. https://t.co/XwdBfAfEq8" / Twitter

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## Wood



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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529785224812445702

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## ILC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529776350210445313


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## Nuclear Clown

DF41 said:


> What you want is that USA/NATO and rest of underlings can annex Ukraine and Russia should
> leave that alone.
> 
> And step aside and smile as Ukraine Nazis armed by USA/NATO and encourage and instigated to go on killing and terrorising Russian speakers in Ukraine TO POKE THE BEAR IN THE EYE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia got more honour and dignity in her last finger than all of USA and NATO axis of evil
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> *CHINA SEE THE ATTEMPT TO TAKE DOWN /WEAKEN RUSSIA IS THE PRECURSOR OF USA TO ATTACK CHINA*
> 
> And China and much of rest of the world standing with Russia
> 
> View attachment 847996


China territorial claims: 












Russia and China Aren’t the Natural Allies Many Assume Them to Be – [your]NEWS


Russia and China may share an interest in countering US hegemony, but the two states also must deal with many sources of conflict, from trade blocs to border wars




yournews.com
















Why China Will Reclaim Siberia - NYTimes.com







www.nytimes.com





As recently as 1969, Russian and Chinese troops harassed each other across the border in northeast China. This eventually “*escalated into a shooting match* on March 2 and 15, resulting in heavy casualties.” Although a shooting war over such matters presently appears remote, complaints over Chinese immigration in Siberia continue today. Those who are interested can even view on Amazon a 2018 documentary titled “*When Siberia Will Be Chinese*.”





In 2020, the Chinese state media was sure to *remind the Russian regime* that Vladivostok was Chinese* “before Russia annexed it via unequal Treaty of Beijing.”*

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529123168991977473

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## MeFishToo

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529785224812445702


ATGM systems have proven themself indispensable in defensive battles. A small group can defeat an entire armored squadron.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529815678961737728

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## Nuclear Clown

Soldier35 said:


> There were shots of the retreat of individual units of the Ukrainian army from the territory of the Red Estuary. The settlement of Krasny Liman is of strategic importance in Ukraine, since it opens up directions for advancing towards Slavyansk with Kramatorsk and towards the grouping of Kiev forces concentrated near Lisichansk and Severodonetsk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian troops launched a missile attack on the Ukrainian plant "Motor Sich" in Zaporozhye. As a result of the missile strike, the plant's workshops and the administrative building were destroyed. The Ukrainian plant "Motor Sich" was engaged in the production, repair and maintenance of aircraft engines and also produced parts for Turkish UAVs "Bayraktar" and "Akinsi".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Ukraine, a self-propelled mortar of a colossal 240-mm caliber was spotted near Severodonetsk. The king of Russian mortars, like many Russian artillery, is romantically named 2C4 "Tulip". The pretty name of the flower hides a monstrous power that inspires fear and respect, by the way, the shot of its 130 kilogram mine leaves a funnel in the ground with a diameter of 10 and a depth of almost 6 meters. Now there are no analogues of the Russian "Tulip": it significantly surpasses conventional artillery and is a record holder. 2C4 "Tulip" is designed primarily for the destruction of bunkers and fortified positions.


Nobody has fear for Russia any more since Saint Javelin has called the Russian bluff. Nobody respects Russia since Rasputin, even less since Putin.
The only fear to have for Russian neighbours? Not having purchased enough NATO-standard weapons [BTW, Russians are unable to detect Rafale, SCALP-EG...]





Russia : BIG GUNS, small d*ck, zero❤️
*NOBODY WANTS YOU BABY! WHY?*
Here's RUSSIAN "LIBERATION" :




_*"In 2 years of Mariupol’s occupation during World War II, the Nazis killed 10,000 people. Russians have doubled the number of victims in 2 months of the Mariupol siege" *_ - Vadym Boychenko, Mariupol mayor

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## nangyale

Viet said:


> Yes believe me, Russia has no future in Europe, no future in America, no future in Africa, no in Far East, she is finished. Putin’s last hope is China and India.


Actually I will skip the believing an idiot part.


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## nang2

Raffie said:


> China territorial claims:
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> Russia and China Aren’t the Natural Allies Many Assume Them to Be – [your]NEWS
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> Russia and China may share an interest in countering US hegemony, but the two states also must deal with many sources of conflict, from trade blocs to border wars
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> yournews.com
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> Why China Will Reclaim Siberia - NYTimes.com
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> www.nytimes.com
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> 
> As recently as 1969, Russian and Chinese troops harassed each other across the border in northeast China. This eventually “*escalated into a shooting match* on March 2 and 15, resulting in heavy casualties.” Although a shooting war over such matters presently appears remote, complaints over Chinese immigration in Siberia continue today. Those who are interested can even view on Amazon a 2018 documentary titled “*When Siberia Will Be Chinese*.”
> 
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> 
> In 2020, the Chinese state media was sure to *remind the Russian regime* that Vladivostok was Chinese* “before Russia annexed it via unequal Treaty of Beijing.”*


Disclaimer: I don't respond to @Raffie, who in my view doesn't really deserve a serious response. Only to the post.

I don't know what they were cooking when they wrote this. They purposely misinform the concept of China and Chinese.

Chinese, in the current term, is predominately Han Chinese, who don't have the territorial ambition as Manchurian who ruled China during Qing Dynasty. The modern Chinese inherited the large part of Qing Dynasty but only to the extend that we can hold on. We naturally have no desire to revive the "glory" of Manchurian. Otherwise, why revive the "glory" of Manchurian? Why not revive the "glory" of Mongols who ruled China during Yuan Dynasty?

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## northeast

Raffie said:


> China territorial claims:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia and China Aren’t the Natural Allies Many Assume Them to Be – [your]NEWS
> 
> 
> Russia and China may share an interest in countering US hegemony, but the two states also must deal with many sources of conflict, from trade blocs to border wars
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yournews.com
> 
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> 
> Why China Will Reclaim Siberia - NYTimes.com
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As recently as 1969, Russian and Chinese troops harassed each other across the border in northeast China. This eventually “*escalated into a shooting match* on March 2 and 15, resulting in heavy casualties.” Although a shooting war over such matters presently appears remote, complaints over Chinese immigration in Siberia continue today. Those who are interested can even view on Amazon a 2018 documentary titled “*When Siberia Will Be Chinese*.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 2020, the Chinese state media was sure to *remind the Russian regime* that Vladivostok was Chinese* “before Russia annexed it via unequal Treaty of Beijing.”*


The thousands of russian nuclear warheads ensured that China would rather treat russia as a worthy friend than an invasion target. Only western lunatics would think that china would invade russia.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529839508056834050

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529823891706679297

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529845450425114624

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## Viet

wahhab0202 said:


> Unless the wars in past didn't have a global impacts like today. World economy and politics were not as intermingle as they are today.
> You'd better be careful with your wish. We don't who is down the line will replace Putin, what they are capable of and whether they are less or more hawkish than Putin. Seeing the 1st two weeks of this war I had an impression that Putin is being softer than a usual Russian leader should be. I don't know, I could be wrong.


Putin wants to be like Stalin.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529787074311770116

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529793630164111367


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## Nuclear Clown

northeast said:


> The thousands of russian nuclear warheads ensured that China would rather treat russia as a worthy friend than an invasion target. Only western lunatics would think that china would invade russia.


No need : Russian birth rate is hitting the bottom and eastern regions are emptying...Note that China's birth rate is falling apart too.
Maintaining nukes costs big money, and even more for their vectors... You know, the 1st launch of an hypersonic Zirkon they've shown, was in fact an old P-500 Bazalt...
With 20-25% of the military budget embezzled, what is the less likely to be used is the more likely to get stolen... Most of their NPPs are running on military grade uranum or plutonium since the cold war... Are you sure they still have thousands of nukes??? 
The same lunatics that thought PRC would never invade Tibet then illegally occupy it for 7 decades+? Or the lunatics that thought Putin wouldn't invade Ukraine?
Mao tried to invade the USSR while he had no nukes and soviets already had thermonuclear, you know...

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## Paul2

northeast said:


> The thousands of russian nuclear warheads ensured that China would rather treat russia as a worthy friend than an invasion target. Only western lunatics would think that china would invade russia.



Why Invade? Just Ask. Russia already leased us like 1 France worth of land in the Far East. We just need to work a bit to make these leases perpetual. Or wait until Russia kicks the bucket, and pull Manchukuo 2.0 on them.


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## FairAndUnbiased

Paul2 said:


> Why Invade? Just Ask. Russia already leased us like 1 France worth of land in the Far East. We just need to work a bit to make these leases perpetual. Or wait until Russia kicks the bucket, and pull Manchukuo 2.0 on them.


Whose we?

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## Vergennes

Russia today in the first trial of its kind has dismissed 115 national guard members from Kabardino Balkaria for refusing to fight in Ukraine.

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## Nuclear Clown

Vergennes said:


> Russia today in the first trial of its kind has dismissed 115 national guard members from Kabardino Balkaria for refusing to fight in Ukraine.


115 that won't come back home in trashbags



FairAndUnbiased said:


> Whose we?


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## jamahir

wahhab0202 said:


> Unless the wars in past didn't have a global impacts like today. World economy and politics were not as intermingle as they are today.
> You'd better be careful with your wish. We don't who is down the line will replace Putin, what they are capable of and whether they are less or more hawkish than Putin. Seeing the 1st two weeks of this war I had an impression that Putin is being softer than a usual Russian leader should be. I don't know, I could be wrong.





Viet said:


> Putin wants to be like Stalin.



Wahhab, you are right about the soft line. Russia hasn't destroyed things like the power infrastructure of Ukraine and bombed Kiev. Compare Russia's soft line to NATO which knows nothing but country-scale destruction : from North Korea in the 1950s to Iraq to Libya and Syria now.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529585244029997056

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## Nuclear Clown

jamahir said:


> Wahhab, you are right about the soft line. Russia hasn't destroyed things like the power infrastructure of Ukraine and bombed Kiev. Compare Russia's soft line to NATO which knows nothing but country-scale destruction : from North Korea in the 1950s to Iraq to Libya and Syria now.


LIAR!
*NATO didn't invaded Iraq in 2003*, just *kicked Saddam out of Kuwait in 1991*, and *on the behalf of the UNSC*, therefore Russia and China didn't vetoed... Saddam invaded Kuwait prior to this
*NATO *just *intervened in Libya 19 March 2011 – 31 October 2011*, again *on the behalf of the UNSC*, therefore Russia and China didn't vetoed...*Gaddafi was slaughtering populations.
NATO didn't intervened in Syria. *Most of destructions : Russia's bombers+artillery*
NATO didn't intervened in Korea, 1950. North Korea invaded South Korea* after some idiot Yankee official declared that S-Korea wasn't under US nuclear umbrella. There should certainly hadn't been such destructions hadn't China and Russia got Implied...
And in all these cases, they didn't needed NATO to destroy their countries on their own...
*You said civilian infrastructures? *
Retroville shopping mall Kyiv: 




Kyiv : 




Hostomel, Kyiv main airport




Lviv powerstation : cruise missiles : Lviv is very far from the front, close to Poland's border.




There were 1000 ppl sheltered in the Mariupol theater when Russian Waffen SS dropped a FAB-3000, a 3000kg bunker buster bomb on it. 90-95% of this city of 450,000 is just like the pictures "after" Russian "liberation" from freedom and democracy: 




In fact, Russia can't gain air superiority, thanks to Ukrainian air-force teaming with air defences systems and ManPADS, thanks God, Russian aircraft are crap, but Soviets used to do good SAMs, mainly thanks to Ukrainian engineers... S-300 is devastating for Sukhois, so, Putler the Butcher can't carpet bomb at will, using heavy bombers...The will only operate under the radar horizon




Have the heroes who defended Mariupol against the RuSSian Waffen-SS had some ManPADS left during the Azovstal siege, vlADOLF PUTLER would have less bombers now...
We definitively should deliver cruise missiles to Ukraine : the Kremlin is into range, the Hermitage Palace in St.Petersburg too, as well as Putin's $1.35bn mansion


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## Hassan Al-Somal

NotSure said:


> Nope. More turkish garbage:



Let me correct you, for everything that was donated to Ukraine, the guided anti-tank weapons, camouflaged artillery, and Byraktar drones were most damaging to the Russian forces. They are just not enough to tilt the war to the Ukrainian favor, but their impact of the war is very significant.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529895546009399319

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529823443977351170

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529878619971063811

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## NotSure

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Let me correct you, for everything that was donated to Ukraine, the guided anti-tank weapons, camouflaged artillery, and Byraktar drones were most damaging to the Russian forces. They are just not enough to tilt the war to the Ukrainian favor, but their impact of the war is very significant.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529895546009399319


Nonsense. You are confusing few propaganda videos with the real impact.

How many TB-2 would be enough? 1000? One million? They were scoring their most hits at the beginning of the war, when russia had the wrong strategy to advance as fast as possible. So they neglected the defence, including air def. But now with the change in strategy the TB-2 can maybe score here and there some hits, but as soon as they enter the zone with serious air defence, they get shot down.

The math is simple: How many TB-2 were delivered to Ukraine? How many videos we have from the whole war? Each TB-2 can strike 4 targets per sortie, the war is nearly 100 days old. If the TB-2 were that effective, we would have today *thousands* of vids with succesfull strikes. But instead we have how many? 20? Maybe 50? Their real effectiveness in this war is on par with suicide drones, at best. Look only at the ridiculous snake island propaganda. They have done their strikes and after that they got downed. This is the best they can achieve against a competent air def. But in most cases they get shot down way before ...

Btw:


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/uy4xrh

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529920915810701315


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## Hakwa Nadro

NotSure said:


> Nope. More turkish garbage:


Recycled photos just like in ww2 nazi propaganda


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529895134241992719

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529942022286721077


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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529920915810701315




Lyman was overrun by the Russian forces within the last 2days.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529894861524152345


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529943002289930242

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## Dalit

Sleepy Joe is clueless along with his NATO brigade. Russia keeps on pouncing Ukraine and conquering more land.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529939191378984988

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529949777672261635

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529950369006206983

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529950927762997249

This is gamechanging weapon systems for Ukraine

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529950908028796928

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529955325918470153

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529955346709721088


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## Hassan Al-Somal

*The main events of May 26*

_*⚡️*_*Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry*

_*💥*_*High-precision air-based missiles* have hit *48* areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration, *2* artillery batteries, and *2* ammunition depots

_*▫️*_*1* Ukrainian electronic reconnaissance centre has been destroyed, including *11* servicemen from the combat unit, as well as *15* foreign engineering specialists who arrived with security guards.

*✈️💥Operational-tactical and army aviation* have hit *49* areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration, *2* mortar crews, as well as *1* depot of missile and artillery weapons and ammunition.

_*▫️*_The attacks have resulted in the elimination of more than *350* nationalists and up to *96* armoured and motor vehicles.

_*💥*_*Missile troops and artillery *have hit *62* command posts, *407* areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration, *47* artillery and mortar units at firing positions, as well as *3* ammunition depots.

_*▫️*_Units and military equipment of the Ukrainian Armed Forces' 10th Mountain Assault Brigade, which arrived to reinforce the Ukrainian grouping in Donbass, have been destroyed during unloading near Pokrovsk railway station in Donetsk People's Republic.

*Dollar/Euro - Ruble exchange rate*

_*▫️*_Some of you complained that the Ruble is strengthening too quick. Well they fixed it

Dollar 65 rubles
Euro 69 rubles

*Liberated territory*

_*▫️*_According to MIG there are still about 50 Azov playing hide and seek in Azovstal, 3-4 surrendered today

_*▫️*_Mariupol port will start receiving and sending cargo in 1-2 days

_*▫️*_*Liman has been liberated *

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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529939191378984988
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529949777672261635
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529950369006206983
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529950927762997249
> 
> This is gamechanging weapon systems for Ukraine




If Ukraine receives these in numbers this is by far the largest boost in firepower Ukraine has received to date. 

Due to their accuracy, entire Russian columns and staging areas can be obliterated and at a safe distance.


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## Nuclear Clown

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529939191378984988
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529949777672261635
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529950369006206983
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529950927762997249
> 
> This is gamechanging weapon systems for Ukraine


HiMARS!!!!





It's gonna hurt 
Babushkas will cry rivers of tears, no Orc will be safe inside Ukraine or even behind Mordor's borders

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## F-22Raptor

Raffie said:


> HiMARS!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's gonna hurt
> Babushkas will cry rivers of tears, no Orc will be safe inside Ukraine or even behind Mordor's borders




If I was a Russian artillery man I’d start worrying. 

Hopefully these will be provided in the numbers Ukraine needs.

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## Trango Towers

All the weapons and still they lose territory

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529941404914524160

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## F-22Raptor

*Russian forces have made steady, incremental gains in heavy fighting in eastern Ukraine in the past several days, though Ukrainian defenses remain effective overall. *Deputy Ukrainian Defense Minister Hanna Malyar stated that the fighting is currently at its "maximum intensity” compared to previous Russian assaults and will likely continue to escalate.[1] Spokesperson for the Ukrainian Defense Ministry Oleksandr Motuzyanyk characterized Russian gains as “temporary success” and stated that Ukrainian forces are using a maneuver defense to put pressure on Russian advances in key areas.[2] Russian forces have now taken control of over 95% of Luhansk Oblast and will likely continue efforts to complete the capture of Severodonetsk in the coming days.[3] Russian forces have made several gains in the past week, but their offensive operations remain slow. Russian forces are heavily degraded and will struggle to replace further losses.





__





Institute for the Study of War


Russian forces have made steady, incremental gains in heavy fighting in eastern Ukraine in the past several days, though Ukrainian defenses remain effective overall. Deputy Ukrainian Defense Minister Hanna Malyar stated that the fighting is currently at




www.understandingwar.org


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529894771413725199

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> *Russian forces have made steady, incremental gains in heavy fighting in eastern Ukraine in the past several days, though Ukrainian defenses remain effective overall. *Deputy Ukrainian Defense Minister Hanna Malyar stated that the fighting is currently at its "maximum intensity” compared to previous Russian assaults and will likely continue to escalate.[1] Spokesperson for the Ukrainian Defense Ministry Oleksandr Motuzyanyk characterized Russian gains as “temporary success” and stated that Ukrainian forces are using a maneuver defense to put pressure on Russian advances in key areas.[2] Russian forces have now taken control of over 95% of Luhansk Oblast and will likely continue efforts to complete the capture of Severodonetsk in the coming days.[3] Russian forces have made several gains in the past week, but their offensive operations remain slow. Russian forces are heavily degraded and will struggle to replace further losses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Institute for the Study of War
> 
> 
> Russian forces have made steady, incremental gains in heavy fighting in eastern Ukraine in the past several days, though Ukrainian defenses remain effective overall. Deputy Ukrainian Defense Minister Hanna Malyar stated that the fighting is currently at
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.understandingwar.org



Russia's so called "second phase" is such a failure that they have to revise their objectives down to give them some sort of success. 1 month and they have made limited gains despite outnumbering Ukrainian forces in every term. (manpower,armour,artillery..)

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529774220829511680
An illogical number, a media statement, no more, Because..the United States has only about 375 launchers of this system, and they are one of the largest armies in the world..but it does not mean that Poland will not obtain this launcher..Maybe with ToT to make it locally..

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529833407265615873

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529873344216158209

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529884207111147523

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529918134609661977

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529918626781876244

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529922419972096001

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529915952262959112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529919310671511552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529898777552859161

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529891084347879427

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529874027925364739


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529926745293565953

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529868902104240128


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529846928288145413

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MAY 26​May 26, 2022 - Press ISW






*Karolina Hird, Mason Clark, and George Barros
May 26, 6:30pm ET*​*Russian forces have made steady, incremental gains in heavy fighting in eastern Ukraine in the past several days, though Ukrainian defenses remain effective overall. *Deputy Ukrainian Defense Minister Hanna Malyar stated that the fighting is currently at its "maximum intensity” compared to previous Russian assaults and will likely continue to escalate.[1] Spokesperson for the Ukrainian Defense Ministry Oleksandr Motuzyanyk characterized Russian gains as “temporary success” and stated that Ukrainian forces are using a maneuver defense to put pressure on Russian advances in key areas.[2] Russian forces have now taken control of over 95% of Luhansk Oblast and will likely continue efforts to complete the capture of Severodonetsk in the coming days.[3] Russian forces have made several gains in the past week, but their offensive operations remain slow. Russian forces are heavily degraded and will struggle to replace further losses.
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces unsuccessfully attempted to advance southeast of Izyum near the Kharkiv-Donetsk Oblast border.*
*Russian forces continued steady advances around Severodonetsk and likely seek to completely encircle the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area in the coming days.*
*Russian forces continued to make persistent advances south and west of Popasna toward Bakhmut, but the Russian pace of advance will likely slow as they approach the town itself.*
*Russian forces in occupied areas of the Southern Axis are reportedly preparing a “third line of defense” to consolidate long-term control over the region and in preparation to repel likely future Ukrainian counteroffensives.*
*

*
*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.
ISW has updated its assessment of the four primary efforts Russian forces are engaged in at this time. We have stopped coverage of Mariupol as a separate effort since the city’s fall. We have added a new section on activities in Russian-occupied areas:*

Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate main effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
Supporting effort 1—Kharkiv City
Supporting effort 2—Southern axis
Activities in Russian-occupied areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued to attempt advances southeast of Izyum toward Slovyansk on May 26. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian troops attempted to attack Bohorodychne, about 30 km southeast of Izyum.[4] Russian forces additionally conducted artillery, rocket, mortar, and tank attacks against Chepil, Dovehenke, Kurulka, and Studenok, all settlements to the southeast of Izyum in the direction of Slovyansk.[5] Such offensive actions indicate that Russian troops hope to continue their advance toward the borders of Donetsk Oblast and merge with operations around Lyman, which Russian forces fully captured on May 26.[6]



Russian forces continued efforts to encircle Severodonetsk on May 26. Russian forces reportedly attempted to take control of Ustynivka, about 15 km southeast of Severodonetsk.[7] Russian sources additionally reported that Russian troops are approaching Severodonetsk from Vojevodivka and Schedryshcheve (northeast of Severodonetsk) and that the northeast portion of the city is under Russian control.[8] A Russian military reporter claimed that as many as 10,000 people may be trapped in the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk cauldron.[9] Ukrainian troops have reportedly fortified their positions in the Zolote-Orikhiv area, where Russian troops have encircled them.[10]
Russian forces continued persistent advances in Donetsk Oblast south and west of Popasna on May 26. Troops from the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DNR and LNR) claimed to have taken full control of Svitlodarsk and Midna Ruda, settlements off the M03 highway and within 30 km southeast of Bakhmut.[11] Russian troops are reportedly fighting around Komyshuvakha, Nirkove, Berestove, Belohorivka, Pokrovske, Klynove, Lypove, and Nahirne and using these areas to advance toward Bakhmut.[12] Russian forces conducted unsuccessful operations around Donetsk City in the vicinity of Avdiivka and continued to shell north and northwest of Avdiivka.[13]



*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces focused on maintaining their positions around Kharkiv City on May 26. The Ukrainian General Staff stated that Russian troops north of Kharkiv City reconnoitered and fired on Ukrainian positions to prevent any further Ukrainian advances in this area.[14] Russian forces shelled the center of Kharkiv City and surrounding settlements.[15]



*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces focused on improving their tactical positions and strengthening defensive lines on the southern axis on May 26.[16] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command stated that Russian forces are creating a “third line of defense” in occupied Kherson Oblast, indicating they are preparing for protracted conflict in this area and digging in to repel likely anticipated Ukrainian counteroffensives.[17] This assessment is consistent with statements made by the Ukrainian Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) that Russian forces are strengthening their defenses in occupied areas in order to hold those territories over the long term.[18]
Russian forces are reportedly attempting to advance to the Mykolaiv-Kherson administrative border and conducted unsuccessful assault operations around Tavriyske and Mykolaivka on May 26.[19] Russian forces heavily shelled areas of Zaporizhia Oblast and strengthened their grouping of forces around Vasylivka and Polohy to renew offensives in the directions of Kamyanske, Orikhiv, and Huliapole.[20] The Ukrainian General Staff noted that the Russian grouping in Zaporizhia, specifically around Melitopol, has been reinforced by a battalion using outdated T-62 tanks, confirming earlier Ukrainian reports that Russian forces are cobbling together battalions with obsolete T-62 tanks to compensate for equipment losses.[21]



*Activity in Russian-occupied areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian occupation authorities continued actions to strengthen their administrative control of occupied areas on May 26. Russia’s Ministry of Emergency Situations deployed three broadcast trucks to Mariupol to transmit state-controlled programming to residents of the city.[22] Advisor to the Mayor of Mariupol Petro Andryushchenko claimed that occupation elements are taking control of schools in Mariupol and have extended the school year through September in order to ensure children spend the summer learning according to strictly Russian curricula.[23] Russian-backed occupation authorities in Kherson stated that Russian mobile phone operators will be available in occupied areas and that pensions will be paid in rubles starting in June.[24] Residents of Kherson and Zaporizhia will additionally be able to obtain Russian passports at newly established passport points in accordance with Russian President Vladimir Putin’s May 25 decree simplifying the process to obtain Russian passports in these occupied areas.[25]
*Immediate items to watch*

Russian forces are likely reinforcing their grouping north of Kharkiv City to prevent further advances of the Ukrainian counteroffensive toward the Russian border. Russan forces may commit elements of the 1st Tank Army to Northern Kharkiv in the near future.
Russian forces are prioritizing cutting off two major highways to Severodonetsk but may start to storm the city before they successfully cut GLOCs.
Occupation forces in Mariupol will continue to strengthen administrative control of the city but are likely unsure of what the ultimate annexation policy will be.
Russian forces are likely preparing for Ukrainian counteroffensives and settling in for protracted operations in Southern Ukraine.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529722173044183041

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529911481617235968

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## PakFactor

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529722173044183041
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529911481617235968



Civilians and these sensational journalists fail to realize that German has been pacifist for so long they have little to no spare equipment laying around to give away without putting themselves at risk.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529760809848606720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529896945317076993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529830568271159296

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529941404914524160




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529745544637202432

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## jamahir

Raffie said:


> Gaddafi was slaughtering populations.



Yes yes, as the very humanitarian NATO declared through the UNSC, Gaddafi and Assad were "killing civilians including women and children". 

However, this Libyan girl was brave and defiant against Obomba, Camoron, Sarkozy and co. in a huge public protest in mid 2011 in Tripoli during the NATO bombings. Watch her and understand that you have been fed lies and disinfo :







Raffie said:


> *NATO *just *intervened in Libya 19 March 2011 – 31 October 2011*, again *on the behalf of the UNSC*,



Ah, the UN Security Council or as Gaddafi called it in his 2009 UN General Assembly address, the UN Terrorist Council. The UNSC should have been long abolished because not only it is anti-democratic not having participation of the rest of the UNO member delegations it also is just a proxy for the three permanent Western members who have used to wage wars of Capitalist imperialism from Korea War to Libya and Syria to now against Russia.



Raffie said:


> therefore Russia and China didn't vetoed...



China is a selfish country that doesn't care for international oppression so it doesn't count. But Russia was active in preventing NATO action against Libyan Jamahiriya including by presenting satellite imagery of the times over places in Libya where NATO was claiming that Libyan defense forces were "killing civilians including women and children". Russia proved it wasn't true. This NATO action was just another regime-change action against yet another progressive Socialist or Communist country especially if it was Muslim-majority. This is the same about Syria which though didn't had mass bombardment by NATO and deep entry by NATO special forces unlike in Libya, still had the NATO proxies Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood enter Syria in 2011 in thousands and now 11 years ago there are tens of thousands of these NATO proxies slaughtering Syrians and trying to establish a mullah state on behalf of NATO.

But I say to you,
Allah, Muammar, Libya bas
Allah, Suriya, Bashar wa bas.




Raffie said:


>



If this really is a Ukranian "Ghost of Kiev" bomber and not a photoshop it is certainly not bombing Russia. 



Raffie said:


> Have the heroes who defended Mariupol against the RuSSian Waffen-SS had some ManPADS left during the Azovstal siege, vlADOLF PUTLER would have less bombers now...



This is a strange world. Muammar Gaddafi and Bashar al Assad are called villains by you instead of the heroes they are, the former being a philosopher and revolutionary, and now Russia is the Waffen-SS by fighting against the Nazis of Azov Battalion and its enabling larger Ukrainian military. What next, Zio-Nazi Zelensky the secretary general of the UNO ?  Well, that would be appropriate really because the UNO is of no use anyway and the UN Security Council aka NATO's New York office is the UN Terrorist Council.

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## vizier

NotSure said:


> Nonsense. You are confusing few propaganda videos with the real impact.
> 
> How many TB-2 would be enough? 1000? One million? They were scoring their most hits at the beginning of the war, when russia had the wrong strategy to advance as fast as possible. So they neglected the defence, including air def. But now with the change in strategy the TB-2 can maybe score here and there some hits, but as soon as they enter the zone with serious air defence, they get shot down.
> 
> The math is simple: How many TB-2 were delivered to Ukraine? How many videos we have from the whole war? Each TB-2 can strike 4 targets per sortie, the war is nearly 100 days old. If the TB-2 were that effective, we would have today *thousands* of vids with succesfull strikes. But instead we have how many? 20? Maybe 50? Their real effectiveness in this war is on par with suicide drones, at best. Look only at the ridiculous snake island propaganda. They have done their strikes and after that they got downed. This is the best they can achieve against a competent air def. But in most cases they get shot down way before ...
> 
> Btw:
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/uy4xrh


The main purpose of Uav is not anti-tank role. Either anti-air should be low or the uav should be more stealthy if it is used for that purpuse. If it is used that way ofcourse from close ranges Russia possibly has improved its shorad systems like Tor with stronger radars after continious losses and possibly gained more hit ratio. However TB-2 and similar uavs can still use elint pods to detect Russian ew or radar which are strong radio broadcasting equipment from far away or sar pods to take picture of the area to detect enemy positions like artillery-ew vehicles from sufficient distance without getting shot down. Then they can que mlrs and artillery to target those positions. If they are used accordingly they can still be effective.

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## Soldier35

In Ukraine, the war of Dronov-Kamikadze began between the Russian and Ukrainian armies. Both sides published a video of their use. Personents of the use of American Switchblade drones 300 by the Ukrainian army appeared, in the video you can see the launch of one of these drones, it is worth noting that the batch of these drones is captured by the Russian army, but so far only photos have been published. At the same time, the Russian army also began to actively use Kamikadze drones, then in the video you can see the frames of attacks by the Russian drone of Kamikadze Kub-Bla on a group of Ukrainian soldiers. The use of kamikadze drones in Ukraine will seriously complicate the fighting of both sides, the only salvation from them is the active use of electronic warfare and air defense systems.






One of the soldiers of the Armed Forces recorded on the video star rain of missiles in Ukraine

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## Viet

jamahir said:


> Wahhab, you are right about the soft line. Russia hasn't destroyed things like the power infrastructure of Ukraine and bombed Kiev. Compare Russia's soft line to NATO which knows nothing but country-scale destruction : from North Korea in the 1950s to Iraq to Libya and Syria now.


Putin is not soft. He is a war criminal.
Just his ambition is greater than the Russian army can do. USSR under Statin is greater in size, greater in economics, greater in allies. Statin was a brutal. Putin will let millions be killed without a blink. They are all in the sane. Putin’s russian economy is just oil and gas. End of the days there will be only India, China because you buy fossil fuels you finance the wars of Russia.


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## jamahir

Viet said:


> Putin is not soft. He is a war criminal.
> Just his ambition is greater than the Russian army can do. USSR under Statin is greater in size, greater in economics, greater in allies.



So you think those genocial and war-criming NATO leaders strolling into Kiev and meeting our favorite thief and Nazi, Zelensky, have been able to do so because Russia is too incompetent to bomb out Kiev's electricity infrastructure using bombers or missiles ?



Viet said:


> Statin was a brutal. Putin will let millions be killed without a blink. They are all in the sane.



What makes you think that ?



Viet said:


> Putin’s russian economy is just oil and gas. End of the days there will be only India, China because you buy fossil fuels you finance the wars of Russia.



Russia also sells weapons. But India currently is ruled by a fascist, right-wing, NATO-oriented party and Indian establishment was never a moral entity. It participated in the NATO invasion of North Korea that killed a million North Koreans and destroyed so many of its cities. That was in the 1950s and that trend continues now. The latest news was in a thread on PDF about USA government about to give money to Indian government for it to buy so much more weapons from the Western bloc that India won't need to buy weapons from Russia.

Right in the initial days of the Ukraine operation the State Bank of India ( a government entity ) stopped dealings with most Russian individuals and organizations, those whom NATO put sanctions against.

Then some days ago the big Indian IT services company Infosys ( which is totally a useless company anyway composed of code monkeys ) pulled out of Russia. One of Infosys' co-founders is NR Narayana Murthy and though not active in the company he is the one to come to mind of everyone in India when speaking of Infosys. Now his daughter is married to the British finance minister, Rishi Sunak. So it was the British government which through Sunak, his wife and his wife's father which got Infosys to pull out of Russia. But Russia won't lose anything becuase Russians are fantastic at computing and Infosys is just a bunch of code monkey idiots.

And then if you see Indian TV media it is full of anti-Russian sentiment so all this "Traditional phrend Russia" thing put out by some Indian officials is lies. Indian government is generally in the Western bloc, against Russia.


----------



## vizier

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529939191378984988
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529949777672261635
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529950369006206983
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529950927762997249
> 
> This is gamechanging weapon systems for Ukraine


Himars could hit key positions but they would be low in numbers. Especially in eastern warzone they dont have air cover and after they are detected by counter battery radar systems air strikes can take them out if they are in low numbers and not used in shoot and scoot mode they would be very vulnurable there. Their current howitzer artillery is also getting targeted continiously. In kherson region Russia does not have air superiority and the air is defended better these can still be used there. 
They need artillery in numbers and the cheapest artillery is home made rockets. Ukranians instead of demanding weapons from abroad can imrpove their home production capability of rockets that is making underground production centers for 15-20km range rockets with fertilizer based explosives , rpgs, grenades even quad drones to deploy those grenades. These are not high tech equipment and can be produced pretty easily.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530071995307724800


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## vizier

Grain export blockade issue can be solved to a considerable degree if the Zatoka bridge in Odessa is repaired and used to transfer grain trucks into Romania in my opinion. It is bombed continiously by Russia because of weapons transfer issues but if there is a guarantee of no weapons shipments from that bridge grain trucks can pass into Romania and exported abroad by ships from Romanian ports. Both sides of the bridge can be video recorded with all vehicles being checked realtime and videos can be shared realtime from internet so no weapons transfer is proven. In that case no reason would be left for Russia to attack the bridge by cruise missiles or similar.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529924531594444816

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## Nuclear Clown

Trango Towers said:


> All the weapons and still they lose territory


You know, after Hitler and Stalin stopped to be the best friends on the planet on June 22nd 1941...




The Waffen-SS and the Wehrmacht progressed to Stalingrad (Volgograd) with an average 3.65km a day before being really bogged down...
Putin's Waffen-ZZ is bogged down for 2 months+
And Ukraine has barely no aviation...



vizier said:


> View attachment 848275
> 
> 
> 
> Grain export blockade issue can be solved to a considerable degree if the Zatoka bridge in Odessa is repaired and used to transfer grain trucks into Romania in my opinion. It is bombed continiously by Russia because of weapons transfer issues but if there is a guarantee of no weapons shipments from that bridge grain trucks can pass into Romania and exported abroad by ships from Romanian ports. Both sides of the bridge can be video recorded with all vehicles being checked realtime and videos can be shared realtime from internet so no weapons transfer is proven. In that case no reason would be left for Russia to attack the bridge by cruise missiles or similar.


LOL, it's just as optimist as hoping Erdogan to stop murdering Kurds...

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529931598388510734

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## Nuclear Clown

vizier said:


> Himars could hit key positions but they would be low in numbers. Especially in eastern warzone they dont have air cover and after they are detected by counter battery radar systems air strikes can take them out if they are in low numbers and not used in shoot and scoot mode they would be very vulnurable there. Their current howitzer artillery is also getting targeted continiously. In kherson region Russia does not have air superiority and the air is defended better these can still be used there.
> They need artillery in numbers and the cheapest artillery is home made rockets. Ukranians instead of demanding weapons from abroad can imrpove their home production capability of rockets that is making underground production centers for 15-20km range rockets with fertilizer based explosives , rpgs, grenades even quad drones to deploy those grenades. These are not high tech equipment and can be produced pretty easily.


HiMARS can be loaded with AMRAAM, therefore being used as a SAM system too...


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529983402383880192

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## vizier

Raffie said:


> HiMARS can be loaded with AMRAAM, therefore being used as a SAM system too...


Yes but amraam if used from ground can't reach high altitudes. Against cruise missiles like if used in western regions would be effective in that configuration. But longer range mlrs if detected would be targeted by Tu-22 bombers or similar from 10km altitude without taking much risk.


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## MeFishToo

vizier said:


> Yes but amraam if used from ground can't reach high altitudes. Against cruise missiles like if used in western regions would be effective in that configuration. But longer range mlrs if detected would be targeted by Tu-22 bombers or similar from 10km altitude without taking much risk.


I doubt T-22 are circling above Ukraine providing air cover. Seems to me Russias air superiority is limited to russian controlled areas.

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## vizier

MeFishToo said:


> I doubt T-22 are circling above Ukraine providing air cover. Seems to me Russias air superiority is limited to russian controlled areas.



Eastern parts there is not much Ukranian sam coverage but manpads for low altitudes. They sometimes work for helicopters, orlan drones, Su 25 unguided low altitude runs but they can't reach high like larger drones, Su 34 or Tu-bombers. Even if they put a radar in eastern regions it can be detected easier than western parts of Ukraine by Russian elint systems and targeted by Ru aircraft-cruise missiles or long range mlrs. Ukraine can't use interceptors much like their Mig 29s in eastern regions. They also don't have medium altitude smaller mobile systems like Tor that can be deployed to frontlines.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530067008246751233


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## MeFishToo

vizier said:


> Eastern parts there is not much Ukranian sam coverage but manpads for low altitudes. They sometimes work for helicopters, orlan drones, Su 25 unguided low altitude runs but they can't reach high like larger drones, Su 34 or Tu-bombers. Even if they put a radar in eastern regions it can be detected easier than western parts of Ukraine by Russian elint systems and targeted by Ru aircraft-cruise missiles or long range mlrs. Ukraine can't use interceptors much like their Mig 29s in eastern regions. They also don't have medium altitude smaller mobile systems like Tor that can be deployed to frontlines.


I mostly agree with you. But I dont think the russian air force is going to carry out attacks behind ukrainian lines. So far the russian choice has been long range missiles of various precision. I think Russia lacks the ability or resources to carry out high altitude precision bombing.

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## MeFishToo

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530067008246751233



I think its the International Volunteer Legion. I belive they are part of the southern defence east of Dnepr river.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530094769078210560


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530141617474129923


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Raffie said:


> HiMARS can be loaded with AMRAAM, therefore being used as a SAM system too...



They'll be either destroyed or captured by the Russian forces.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530102240198832128

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530141617474129923




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530097991268245507

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530147755246686208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530147755246686208


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530130359895183360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530115185305915392

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530113057648742400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530105794821246977

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530156610542260224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530157077397749760

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## Hassan Al-Somal

MeFishToo said:


> I think its the International Volunteer Legion. I belive they are part of the southern defence east of Dnepr river.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530094769078210560




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530160345578340352

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530156454778388480


----------



## NotSure

vizier said:


> The main purpose of Uav is not anti-tank role. Either anti-air should be low or the uav should be more stealthy if it is used for that purpuse. If it is used that way ofcourse from close ranges Russia possibly has improved its shorad systems like Tor with stronger radars after continious losses and possibly gained more hit ratio. However TB-2 and similar uavs can still use elint pods to detect Russian ew or radar which are strong radio broadcasting equipment from far away or sar pods to take picture of the area to detect enemy positions like artillery-ew vehicles from sufficient distance without getting shot down. Then they can que mlrs and artillery to target those positions. If they are used accordingly they can still be effective.


No need to improve shorads against TB-2, Tor and Pantsir, even Tunguska, are shooting similar and much harder targets down on a regular basis in realistic exercises. Only one example: The Saman and Saman-M are converted missiles from the Osa SAM, flying around 700m/s and are something like the standard target for russian shorads in exercises.

But you need competent operators and a 24/7 sky scanning, taking the threat serious. No nonsense like advance as fast as possible or lets make a smoking break, like the geniuses in Syria.

Don't get me wrong, the TB-2 is a good UAV, but at the end of the day it is still a small and very, very slow target. The normal speed is around 50m/s, the Pantsir missile is around 30 (!) times faster. The RCS is small but far away from beeing VLO aka stealth plus they operate <10km, so even VLO targets will be detected. And all UCAV have these cons, turkish, russian, american etc.

Only real combat drones like the S-70, X-47 etc. will change that.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529979352196304909

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/152993062726021939


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## MeFishToo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530156610542260224


I think this twitter account is a little one-sided. This is what Russia is facing going south of Liman. And its the only way across the river. So its not going to happen.


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## MeFishToo

I found these pictures of Putin meeting ordinary russians .. 
He must be completely paranoid.








Visiting wounded soldiers and factory workers

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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529894771413725199

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## StraightEdge

The Russian TOS-1A looks scary as hell. Do they have many in their inventory?

“Most Horrific War Of 21st Century” Putin’s TOS-1A Thermobaric Strike In Donbas Sends Shockwaves - YouTube

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530175899664105472

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530153437769367553

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530211667270897664

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530214758917488641

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## Nuclear Clown

jamahir said:


> Yes yes, as the very humanitarian NATO declared through the UNSC, Gaddafi and Assad were "killing civilians including women and children".
> 
> However, this Libyan girl was brave and defiant against Obomba, Camoron, Sarkozy and co. in a huge public protest in mid 2011 in Tripoli during the NATO bombings. Watch her and understand that you have been fed lies and disinfo :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, the UN Security Council or as Gaddafi called it in his 2009 UN General Assembly address, the UN Terrorist Council. The UNSC should have been long abolished because not only it is anti-democratic not having participation of the rest of the UNO member delegations it also is just a proxy for the three permanent Western members who have used to wage wars of Capitalist imperialism from Korea War to Libya and Syria to now against Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> China is a selfish country that doesn't care for international oppression so it doesn't count. But Russia was active in preventing NATO action against Libyan Jamahiriya including by presenting satellite imagery of the times over places in Libya where NATO was claiming that Libyan defense forces were "killing civilians including women and children". Russia proved it wasn't true. This NATO action was just another regime-change action against yet another progressive Socialist or Communist country especially if it was Muslim-majority. This is the same about Syria which though didn't had mass bombardment by NATO and deep entry by NATO special forces unlike in Libya, still had the NATO proxies Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood enter Syria in 2011 in thousands and now 11 years ago there are tens of thousands of these NATO proxies slaughtering Syrians and trying to establish a mullah state on behalf of NATO.
> 
> But I say to you,
> Allah, Muammar, Libya bas
> Allah, Suriya, Bashar wa bas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If this really is a Ukranian "Ghost of Kiev" bomber and not a photoshop it is certainly not bombing Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> This is a strange world. Muammar Gaddafi and Bashar al Assad are called villains by you instead of the heroes they are, the former being a philosopher and revolutionary, and now Russia is the Waffen-SS by fighting against the Nazis of Azov Battalion and its enabling larger Ukrainian military. What next, Zio-Nazi Zelensky the secretary general of the UNO ?  Well, that would be appropriate really because the UNO is of no use anyway and the UN Security Council aka NATO's New York office is the UN Terrorist Council.


Bashar is not a philosopher, he's an ophtalmologist... In serious need for glasses




Note that I was against the forced removal of both Saddam and Gaddafi, but only because it was clear that things would only become worst, and Erdog, Hamad+Tamim and Bandar should had been blocked to interfere in Syria, but it remains that Bashar iq more a butcher than an ophthalmologist, ... and his friend Putin too... There are no tears to shed on Gaddafi or Saddam, Gaddafi *finally got his long overdue*... Heroes don't put bombs into airliners. Both came to power with coups and reigned by terror, so did Bashar"s dad (remember the 1982 Hama massacre) and he's as legitimateas his dad.








Assad’s Horrible War Crimes Are Finally Coming to Light Under Oath


A German court is exposing Syria’s systemic atrocities—and ending any hopes of international reconciliation with the regime.




foreignpolicy.com








The only thing with MoFos like Assad or Gaddafi is that those in the pipeline to replace these monsters are even worse, that's all








Syria: massacre reports emerge from Assad's Alawite heartland


Alawites are fleeing their homes, recounting gruesome tales of executions and other atrocities




www.theguardian.com








*"Zio-Nazi Zelenskyi"????* 
Do you know at least wha the terms you use mean?
Zionism implies moving to Zion hill (in Jerusalem), it's all about the Jews return to their ancestral homeland... Zelenskyi should be into doing the alliyah to be a Zionist. 
BTW, since Q'ran twice says the land of Israel belongs to the Jews forever, and even orders them to live here,* therefore, Allah is a zionist and anti-zionists are munafiq and kafir*!
Nazism is a white supremacist fascist totalitarian ideology which is against democracy, says that Jews, Slavs and Roms are suhumans, that black people are monkeys and brown people are midway between monkeys and theorycal "aryans" which are tall and blond with blue eyes (real Aryans are... Indians, but Nazis are not wrapped tight), then, Nazis aim at eliminating those they deem as subhumans... Well, if Zionists were acting like Nazis, in 1967, Gaza had a 300k population, 55 years later, it's 2 millions... In Oct 1940, the Warsaw ghetto had 400,000 Jews (and was 100x smaller than the Gaza strip), by May 1943, it was population-zero and they didn't went on holidays, they were moved to places you did a reverse-Santa Claus : you entered by the door and got out by the chimney...

*At the contrary, Putin acts EXACTLY like HITLER
1. Invasion of a country* that didn't attacked Russia under bogus excuses to justify, despite all international laws and norms deem such casus belli as laughable, how funny, there are morons and paid trolls hammering that the Hitler's MiniMe of the Kremlin is right to do so! It's *NOT UKRAINE THAT IS INVADING RUSSIA, RUSSIA IS THE INVADER !!!
2. Russian state-owned media* are clear about the campaign goals : elimination of the Ukrainian state, culture and even people not willing to integrate the Russian pitiful way of life. Such plans have a name that is GENOCIDE !!! 
Most watched TV show on state owned Rossiya-1 TV where regime's pundits tell the official narrative :

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513331072007909379State-owned RIA/Novosti agency tells about the plan : 




*3. Nazis are well known to do what they say.*
I hope I won't upset some moderator, but I have to post some graphic stuff, thus I put the size in a way that forces to click on the material... WARNING : RUSSIAN ACTS ARE ABSOLUTELY GRUESOME !!!







*4. Mass graves* of civilians are found everywhere, the 3 *mobile crematorium ovens* brought by the infamous Wagner PMC, which were in use in Syria since 2013, are not enough to hide the extend of Russia's crimes by vaporising evidences = murdered Ukrainians...










Make no mistake, the body bags were used after Ukrainian army ousted Putin's Waffen-ZZ, ruZZians dumped carcasses directly in the bulldozer-dug pits.
*5. Razing cities : it's so much convenient when the Waffen-ZZ, unlike the US Marines, is too coward for Urban warfare...*





*6. *BUT HEY UN are terrorists, NATO too and blah blah blah!!! 
*"Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty" *
- Joseph Goebbels, Nazi propaganda minister
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT RUSSIA IS DOING, now they're even into blackmailing the poorest countries with famine by blocking wheat exports, not speaking about nuclear threats hammered.. 
*RUSSIA THINKS LIKE NAZIS*
*RUSSIA SPEAKS LIKE NAZIS
RUSSIA ACTS LIKE NAZIS*
*RUSSIA IS NAZI*

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530096699942772737

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## Nuclear Clown

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> They'll be either destroyed or captured by the Russian forces.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530102240198832128


Actually, it's the HiMARS that will destroy the ruSSian Waffen-ZZ.
The cool thing is that being also able to defend against jet fighters that may be able to fly too high for ManPADS but too low for being in the radar horizon of Ukraine's S-300, the HiMARS has self defence capabilities. I hope Binden will bring the *ATACMS *too, so Ukrainian army can target bases far behind the enemy lines, in fact, even a few *PrSM*s would be great : the ruSSian Waffen-ZZ does long range missile strikes into Kiyv or Lviv,, it would just be justice when Ukrainian army strikes the ruSSian MoD, the Kremlin and the National Defense Control Center (NDCC) in Moscow : it's high time for *Nazi-Putin AKA Vladolf Putler* to taste his own medicine : *it's ruSSia that needs a serious denazification!*



























StraightEdge said:


> The Russian TOS-1A looks scary as hell. Do they have many in their inventory?
> 
> “Most Horrific War Of 21st Century” Putin’s TOS-1A Thermobaric Strike In Donbas Sends Shockwaves - YouTube


TOS-1A effect vs. Ukrainian civilian : GRAPHIC WARNING
Don't click if you don't wan to see the gruesome effect




naZi-ruSSia deliberately uses such incendiary weapons against civilians


----------



## jhungary

Trango Towers said:


> $1 = 57.13 Rubbles
> 
> Strongest in 5 years


Well, the Russian Central bank stopped trading Rouble with USD, they could set it $1 to 1 Rouble, that does not mean anything because nobody but the government can get them, and the most important thing is, Russian government cannot get new USD from trade and they cannot be converted either way.

It's like I said "This toilet paper is now worth $1000 a piece, but I do not let anyone buy it or I will not be able to sell it" So what's the point of having that toilet paper appraised at $1000 a piece??

Ground reality in Russia is like this

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## jhungary

FuturePAF said:


> The current Russian offensive in eastern Ukraine is probably the textbook example of how India would employ the cold start doctrine, IMHO. We should keep an eye on how the Ukrainians defend that area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.s. a good look at all the weapons supplied to Ukraine from outside powers during this war; can be very informative of the kinds of tactics that would have to be employed in a cold start scenario.


Probably not.....

The current Ground Offensive in the East is not something of an Army with numeric superiority should do. You never get into a grinding warfare while fighting a mobile warfare at the same time when you outnumber your enemy, That is a good way you can pinned and hammered. 

If I was the Russian overall commander, I would probably by-pass Sievierodonetsk and break out from Popasna and aim for a speed advance toward Kramatorsk, at this rate, Ukrainian is grinding away the Russian numeric advantage. By the way, that is what the UKrainian is doing to the Russian at the moment, they did not reinforce Sievierodonetsk, they shored up the opposite bank, and using the reinforcement to advance North of Kharkiv. Seems like Ukrainian are not going to defend Sievierodonetsk and pull back probably after some rear guard action.



nang2 said:


> When did Russians attempt the big encirclement? Did Russians ever claim they wanted to do a big encirclement?


Didn't the Russian MOD guy come out and say they wanted to encircle the entire Donbas region and established a land corridor toward Transnistria back in April?

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## Nuclear Clown

NotSure said:


> No need to improve shorads against TB-2, Tor and Pantsir, even Tunguska, are shooting similar and much harder targets down on a regular basis in realistic exercises. Only one example: The Saman and Saman-M are converted missiles from the Osa SAM, flying around 700m/s and are something like the standard target for russian shorads in exercises.
> 
> But you need competent operators and a 24/7 sky scanning, taking the threat serious. No nonsense like advance as fast as possible or lets make a smoking break, like the geniuses in Syria.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, the TB-2 is a good UAV, but at the end of the day it is still a small and very, very slow target. The normal speed is around 50m/s, the Pantsir missile is around 30 (!) times faster. The RCS is small but far away from beeing VLO aka stealth plus they operate <10km, so even VLO targets will be detected. And all UCAV have these cons, turkish, russian, american etc.
> Only real combat drones like the S-70, X-47 etc. will change that.


In fact, very slow targets can be difficult to hit too, especially if small...
The famous Israeli video of a shooting Pantsir being blown despite no less than 3 missiles fired (you see a remaining smoke plume before the two launches)...
These weren't having a smoke break, the battery was fully active and fully busted...
Now I won't help the Orcs to fix their crap, we have an efficient SHORAD with a firng profile similar to Pantsir named Crotale Mk.3 which has also proven itself efficient as a C-RAM (Iron-Dome job).
Mk.3 is from 2008, I wouldn't be too surprised if Thales was willing to make a Mk.4 with even a better missiles and 16 interceptors per launcher instead of 8 if some is interested by a contract similar to the 114 Korean K-SAM Pegasus (which can also be loaded with the Mk.3 missile).
Even active Pantsirs suck : most of the alleged interceptions of Israeli assets Syria brags about are BS !!! What is shown is the Pantsir's interceptor self destruction when reaching its max-range! The few times it was successful, there was a secondary blast or you see the burning target falling. I didn't made statistics on what SANA broadcasted, but the successful interceptions must be as low as 5-10%...

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530180238281416705
These recent developments are worrisome. In yesterday's update from ISW think tank, Russia is said to be developing third line of defense in southern axis. I hope that the Ukrainian side has better fortune next month

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## Trango Towers

jhungary said:


> Well, the Russian Central bank stopped trading Rouble with USD, they could set it $1 to 1 Rouble, that does not mean anything because nobody but the government can get them, and the most important thing is, Russian government cannot get new USD from trade and they cannot be converted either way.
> 
> It's like I said "This toilet paper is now worth $1000 a piece, but I do not let anyone buy it or I will not be able to sell it" So what's the point of having that toilet paper appraised at $1000 a piece??
> 
> Ground reality in Russia is like this


Oh dear.


----------



## Paul2

StraightEdge said:


> The Russian TOS-1A looks scary as hell. Do they have many in their inventory?
> 
> “Most Horrific War Of 21st Century” Putin’s TOS-1A Thermobaric Strike In Donbas Sends Shockwaves - YouTube


25 on paper


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530175899664105472




No proof presented; just mere claims.



Raffie said:


> Actually, it's the HiMARS that will destroy the ruSSian Waffen-ZZ.
> The cool thing is that being also able to defend against jet fighters that may be able to fly too high for ManPADS but too low for being in the radar horizon of Ukraine's S-300, the HiMARS has self defence capabilities. I hope Binden will bring the *ATACMS *too, so Ukrainian army can target bases far behind the enemy lines, in fact, even a few *PrSM*s would be great : the ruSSian Waffen-ZZ does long range missile strikes into Kiyv or Lviv,, it would just be justice when Ukrainian army strikes the ruSSian MoD, the Kremlin and the National Defense Control Center (NDCC) in Moscow : it's high time for *Nazi-Putin AKA Vladolf Putler* to taste his own medicine : *it's ruSSia that needs a serious denazification!*
> View attachment 848456
> 
> View attachment 848457
> 
> View attachment 848458
> 
> View attachment 848461
> 
> View attachment 848462
> 
> View attachment 848463
> 
> 
> 
> TOS-1A effect vs. Ukrainian civilian : GRAPHIC WARNING
> Don't click if you don't wan to see the gruesome effect
> View attachment 848464
> 
> naZi-ruSSia deliberately uses such incendiary weapons against civilians




Can you stop spamming the thread with those bogus images? How many times are you gonna post them? Do you seriously think people are gonna believe the gibberish that you're posting? We all know there is one side that employs Neo-Nazis and Sergey Lavrov got the cat out of the bag when he stated very clearly how Hitler had the same roots as Zelensky.

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## Paul2

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530180238281416705
> These recent developments are worrisome. In yesterday's update from ISW think tank, Russia is said to be developing third line of defense in southern axis. I hope that the Ukrainian side has better fortune next month



That's why I point to one point from the start:

There are freaking 7 Russian field armies there.

Hardware losses, and particularly tanks, are tremendous, but even if they lose them all, and will have nothing, but towed guns/mortars left, flushing them out may take 1+ year if they will be kept being reinforced.

Can Russia manufacture sewage pipe mortars at least? Yes, of course.

The West totally missed the window of opportunity. Putin fouled them again with the most banal stick, and carrot trick.

Biden is just retarded.

Obama Bin Laden was 100% correct predicting that Biden's presidency would be a disaster for the America.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530272759619674112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530264292070678531

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530258990550114305

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530270926494785536


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530253160035631107

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530257682103418882

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530253838053146625

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Another major Russian offensive towards Kiev has been planned, according to reports. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530235946251259906


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530224198270038018

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## SalarHaqq

@Hassan Al-Somal

Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, true heir to Soviet anti-fascism (the authentic, original anti-fascism not its fake, usurpative Trotskyist or zionist avatars).

New statue of Stalin inaugurated in 2019 at Novosibjirsk:







https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/05/russia-stalin-statue/590140/

Russian forces and Russian citizens flying the Soviet flag of victory over Nazism and Banderism:






























Wonderful people. They shall liberate all of Europe from lunatic NATO and zionist extremists. The hopes of free nations of the world rest with Russia in its struggle against the genocidal, Nazi-like ruling oligarchy of the NATO regimes.














And their protectors in Occupied Palestine:






Subjects who've realized the true face of the bloodthirsty apartheid regime holding them hostage:






















Islamophobic British neo-fascists posing with zionist flag:






British king Edward VIII and queen of England were avid admirers of Hitler:






German xenophobic far right with zionist flags:






Birds of a feather.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530197358113345538


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530276350921261057

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530211461175320576

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## Viet

jamahir said:


> So you think those genocial and war-criming NATO leaders strolling into Kiev and meeting our favorite thief and Nazi, Zelensky, have been able to do so because Russia is too incompetent to bomb out Kiev's electricity infrastructure using bombers or missiles ?
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think that ?
> 
> 
> 
> Russia also sells weapons. But India currently is ruled by a fascist, right-wing, NATO-oriented party and Indian establishment was never a moral entity. It participated in the NATO invasion of North Korea that killed a million North Koreans and destroyed so many of its cities. That was in the 1950s and that trend continues now. The latest news was in a thread on PDF about USA government about to give money to Indian government for it to buy so much more weapons from the Western bloc that India won't need to buy weapons from Russia.
> 
> Right in the initial days of the Ukraine operation the State Bank of India ( a government entity ) stopped dealings with most Russian individuals and organizations, those whom NATO put sanctions against.
> 
> Then some days ago the big Indian IT services company Infosys ( which is totally a useless company anyway composed of code monkeys ) pulled out of Russia. One of Infosys' co-founders is NR Narayana Murthy and though not active in the company he is the one to come to mind of everyone in India when speaking of Infosys. Now his daughter is married to the British finance minister, Rishi Sunak. So it was the British government which through Sunak, his wife and his wife's father which got Infosys to pull out of Russia. But Russia won't lose anything becuase Russians are fantastic at computing and Infosys is just a bunch of code monkey idiots.
> 
> And then if you see Indian TV media it is full of anti-Russian sentiment so all this "Traditional phrend Russia" thing put out by some Indian officials is lies. Indian government is generally in the Western bloc, against Russia.


You can spew endless lies all days you want. That doesn’t alter the fact Russian is a facist country run by a racist. Putin wages a racial motivated war camouflaged as Nazi hunting operation. The way how they merciless destroy Ukraine cities resembles facism.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530253467830435840


----------



## PakFactor

@Hassan Al-Somal What's the total body count of these beautiful blonde hair blue eyed people from both sides?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530196281225842689

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530158978352693250


PakFactor said:


> @Hassan Al-Somal What's the total body count of these beautiful blonde hair blue eyed people from both sides?




I am focusing on the progress on the Russian and Pro-Russian forces and wasn't paying attention to casualty figures. But looking at the amount of aerial and artillery bombardments that the Russians are unleashing, the Ukrainian forces' casualty rate must be much higher than their govt is admitting. As a matter fact, Ukrainian forces in the Donbass region are in a dire situation. Their ideological leaders don't want them to withdraw, but the troops are really in a bad shape. And if they don't make withdrawals from cities like Severodonetsk, they will be encircled and the fate of Mariupol awaits them.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530255236325158914

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530213518393344002


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530288084755030021


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530224720070721536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530171142014746625

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530191206310985729

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530190040168550400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530188649530372098


----------



## The SC

Urgent | Ukrainian Defense Ministry: Intense Russian bombing along the front lines in Donbass, and the situation in Lugansk and Donetsk is very difficult
@AJABreaking



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530130359895183360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530177335512682497

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530165432040230912


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530085309165223937

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530201073297784837

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530052645271900161


----------



## The SC

The collapse of the Ukrainian defenses
Neither the Javelins nor the m777 helped them much








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530141747870945282


----------



## Abid123

Come on Russia🇷🇺 Focus on Odessa after liberating Donbas.

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## The SC



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## jhungary

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530180238281416705
> These recent developments are worrisome. In yesterday's update from ISW think tank, Russia is said to be developing third line of defense in southern axis. I hope that the Ukrainian side has better fortune next month


That's what I have said a few weeks ago. 

The situation in Ukraine is stabilising but not at all out of the wood yet. That is why Ukraine all but stop attacking Kherson and devoted bulk of the troop to the East trying to turn this around. Problem is, Russia have the number and they are going to attack. 

As my previous post suggested, Ukrainian are pulling back from Sievierodonetsk, seems like they wanted to preserve the force rather than have it fight out, it is a sound tactical decision.

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530052645271900161


Why are you quoting this random troll? Its obviously all hits in the video.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530291540840566785

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## Nuclear Clown

NotSure said:


> I suggest you stick to c&p your retarded antirussian propaganda pics and don't interfere, when adults are talking.
> 
> => Ignore list.


Don't be arrogant with your dad...


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530284661951406082

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## Nuclear Clown

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> No proof presented; just mere claims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you stop spamming the thread with those bogus images? How many times are you gonna post them? Do you seriously think people are gonna believe the gibberish that you're posting? We all know there is one side that employs Neo-Nazis and Sergey Lavrov got the cat out of the bag when he stated very clearly how Hitler had the same roots as Zelensky.


Actually, it's Lavrov that has the same roots as Hitler, Stalin, You or Putin.
I think Arabs call it "Dajjal"


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530303574500048901


SalarHaqq said:


> @Hassan Al-Somal
> 
> Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, true heir to Soviet anti-fascism (the authentic, original anti-fascism not its fake, usurpative Trotskyist or zionist avatars).
> 
> New statue of Stalin inaugurated in 2019 at Novosibjirsk:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/05/russia-stalin-statue/590140/
> 
> Russian forces and Russian citizens flying the Soviet flag of victory over Nazism and Banderism:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 848512
> 
> 
> Wonderful people. They shall liberate the whole of Europe from NATO and zionist Nazi extremists. The hopes of all free nations of the world rest with Russia in its struggle against the criminal genocidal ruling oligarchy of the NATO regimes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 848525
> 
> View attachment 848511
> 
> 
> And their protectors in the illegitimate apartheid entity:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isra"el"is who've recognized the true face of a bloodthirsty racist regime which is holding them hostage:
> 
> View attachment 848510
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 848513
> 
> View attachment 848514
> 
> View attachment 848515
> 
> 
> Islamophobic British neo-fascists posing with zionist flag:
> 
> View attachment 848516
> 
> 
> British king Edward VIII and queen of England were avid admirers of Hitler:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> German xenophobic far right with zionist flags:
> 
> View attachment 848518
> 
> 
> Birds of a feather.





Yes, bro. Zionism and Nazism are the tooth of the same coin.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529833999102787586
All the power of rocket artillery group V of the Russian troops.









Chechen forces seize new NATO weapons in Krasnyi Lyman

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## Hassan Al-Somal

*The main events of May 27
*
_*⚡️*_*Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry*

_*💥*_*High-precision air-based missiles* of the Russian Aerospace Forces have hit *positions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces' 10th Mountain Assault Brigade* near Bakhmut, Donetsk People's Republic. *7 *command and observation posts and *13* areas of manpower and military equipment concentration have been hit.

_*✈️💥*_*Operational-tactical and army aviation* have hit *44* areas of concentration of Ukrainian manpower and military equipment.

_*▫️*_The attacks have resulted in the elimination of more than *250* nationalists and *84* military equipment, including *9* tanks

_*💥*_*Russian air defence means* have shot down* 1 MiG-29* aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force over Belyary, Odessa Region.

_*💥*_*Missile troops and artillery* have hit *77* command posts of AFU units, *412* areas of manpower and military equipment concentration, as well as *53* artillery firing positions.

*Liberated territory* 

_*▫️*_Kherson and Zaporozhye regions are switching to the Russian telephone code +7 instead of the Ukrainian +380

_*▫️*_The Main Directorate of the Ministry of Internal Affairs for the Zaporozhye region believes that up to 90% of the region's residents will apply for Russian citizenship

_*▫️*_The seaport of Mariupol will handle 80,000 tons of cargo in June

*Russia

▫️*The West has declared total war on the entire Russian world
*
▫️*Lukashenko called for the speedy implementation of the roadmap for interaction between the Eurasian Economic Union and China*

Daily Dose of Diarrhea - Europe

▫️*Boris Johnson: Putin is making gradual, slow but tangible progress in Ukraine*

Daily Dose of Diarrhea - Ukraine

▫️*The General Staff of Ukraine is asking to increase the prison term and confiscation of property for desertion.*

▫️*Ukrainian Foreign Minister Kuleba said that Ukraine is being forced to negotiate with Russia on its terms by representatives of the European Union

_*▫️❗️*_The United States will not fight over Ukraine, including at sea

Pentagon

_*❗️⚡️*_Poroshenko tried to escape from Ukraine - customs service

*International News

▫️*Asia in April overtook Europe for the first time in terms of purchases of Russian oil - Bloomberg

_*▫️*_Sweden and Finland are unlikely to become candidates for NATO membership at the upcoming alliance summit if they do not comply with Turkey's demands, Stoltenberg said

_*▫️*_The Eurasian Economic Union will start negotiations with Indonesia on free trade

_*▫️*_Iran , after detaining 2 greek tankers, may detain 17 Greek ships if Greece continues its destructive actions, Fars news agency reported, citing a source.

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## Nuclear Clown

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530303574500048901Yes, bro. Zionism and Nazism are the tooth of the same coin.


*I think you missed some history lessons*
The Nazi-Soviet alliance started WW2 by jointly invading Poland !!! 





BTW, have you heard about Marxism? 
Marxism is the very foundation for communism, thus, many consider these are just Jesus' ideas minus religion : commies are definitively anti-religions...
Well, be it Karl Marx or Jesus, both were from the Jewish people, just like Zelenskyi...
BTW, doesn't Putin has Jewish roots too? 
If I remember well, he even owns an apartment in Tel-Aviv. His daughter is the concubine of a ballet dancer named... Zelensky
YOU ARE SERIOUS CHAMPIONS, YOU GUYS


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

George Galloway summed it all up! 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530242646891012097

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530113057648742400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530069664436469762


----------



## MeFishToo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530291540840566785


Hassan Al-Somal said:
_No proof presented; just mere claims._

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530295074692677635

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## MeFishToo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> George Galloway summed it all up! 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530242646891012097


He used to be a Press Tv and RT mouthpiece. He’d sum up and conclude anything you’d pay him to say.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530223298487152641

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530295074692677635


An artillery battalion is like 500 soldiers, 18 guns and some sort of anti air defence. I think its safe to say this claim is .. just a claim.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530312449655816192

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## Nuclear Clown

Waffen-ZZ Su-35 shot down by 🇺🇦MiG-29.
Maiden air-to-air combat for Su-35, and it already bites the dust!











The flying Orc was after a Su-25 providing air support to Ukraine in its fight for freedom against Mordor...
Ukraine also just received 14 Su-25 from an undisclosed country (well, not so hard to guess which one, 16 F-16V are coming in replacement)
It was high time! Aircraft are starting to arrive

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530282170773868545

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530254642264825856


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530243551073820673

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530231912060661761


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## Nuclear Clown

Polish PZR Piorun MANPADS shoots down Waffen-ZZ Ka-52 close to Verkhnotoresktne




Seems the Orcs failed an offensive in Lyman with great losses.
Ukrainian airborne trooper seems to enjoy a rather big "ciggie" while chilling

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## Corax

PakFactor said:


> @Hassan Al-Somal What's the total body count of these beautiful blonde hair blue eyed people from both sides?



Lots of beautiful blonde haired arian master race being slaughtered, around 15-20,000 men on each side, although you wouldn't guess there's any uki soldiers being killed because US posters here believe a single uki soldier can kill a hundred ruski soldiers with his bare hands. Still, makes a change seeing beautiful blonde haired Arians being slaughtered rather than poor coloured people. 

I'm already bored of this conflict, it's essentially a civil war between one bunch of nazi Slavs (the "good" uki Nazis) against another bunch of Nazi Slavs (the "bad" ruski Nazis). Doesn't really matter who wins, the yanks are doing a great job at prolonging this great show, just grab some popcorn and watch some real life action instead of some Hollywood blue screen crap movie.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530203220680785921

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530228571225985025

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530203002799374336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530131266510721024


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530304043943346177

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530302112244158465

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530116776884850689


----------



## Nuclear Clown

One of the 14 new UkrAF Su-25.
Good hunt!!!
My apologies to our Ukrainian friends : was I in charge in my country, you'd get something way more powerful [with the pilots too!], something carrying a cruise missile able to enter the Kremlin through Vladolf's window. It always makes the bullies uncomfortable once they feel you're after them, and if you get 'em, it's gonna hurt. I know this by experience

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530115185305915392
The Russians were not satisfied with the T-62 tanks, but rather decided to return to ancient history and engage the T-55 in the battles...








IMG_20220527_230902_219.mp4







defense-arab.com






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530105794821246977


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530160779743354881


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530306012116312064


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530096248258236418


----------



## Nuclear Clown

❤️ from🇫🇷 the CAESAR guns have been delivered and personnels trained!









No need for guided shells unless these are for moving targets (e.g. the Bofos-Nexter Bonus shell will bust two tanks even if they're moving) : the long barrel and computerized targetting system allow a 1m accuracy at 40km
Shooting at 55km needs rocket boosted shells making it a 55km big sniper... The CAESAR had devastating effects for both ISIS and the Khmer Rouge health, in other terms, it's anti-roaches infestations proven.
I hope 🇺🇦to make good use of these : there are many Orcs. Sorry, we don't provide the trashbags for the Orcs' remains, but very good quality ones can be obtained from famous 🇩🇪hard-discount supermarkets.


----------



## Flight of falcon

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530243551073820673
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530231912060661761





I love the fact how these loosers package every defeat in the most comical terminology. I was just watching news and some Ukrainian general was quoted that their forces need to evacuate from some fronts because they have done their job and inflicted heavy casualties on the Russians. I have never heard anyone describe defeat and retreat in more comical way.....

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## RoadAmerica

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> George Galloway summed it all up! 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530242646891012097


Summed it up with trash. The first sentence is utterly false but keep believing it 👍🏿



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530203220680785921
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530228571225985025
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530203002799374336
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530131266510721024


You mean Washington will have its Allies buy weapons that work 😂



Flight of falcon said:


> I love the fact how these loosers package every defeat in the most comical terminology. I was just watching news and some Ukrainian general was quoted that their forces need to evacuate from some fronts because they have done their job and inflicted heavy casualties on the Russians. I have never heard anyone describe defeat and retreat in more comical way.....


3 day special operation right, whose the one loosing 🤣

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## Nuclear Clown

*Russia is guilty of inciting genocide in Ukraine, expert report concludes (the Guardian)*​*Report by 30 internationally recognised scholars finds ‘reasonable grounds to conclude’ Moscow in breach of Geneva Convention
Russia is guilty of inciting genocide and having the intent to commit genocide in Ukraine, legally obliging other countries to stop it, according to a new report by more than 30 internationally recognised legal scholars and experts.*





As I have stated on my side, the Russian state-owned media public incitement for genocide is blatant, be it on Rossiya-1 TV most watched TV show : 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513331072007909379or in the very official RIA/Novosti press agency :




But there are ways to make anyone truly disgusted at how low Russia went low : the sales of such T-shirts : 





No need for 30 lawyers to make your mind : Those responsible for mass murders of civilians even get promoted


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530342112591585280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530342113908510722

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530321422048014338

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530049294723600384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529696198810034176

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## SalarHaqq

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Yes, bro. Zionism and Nazism are the tooth of the same *coin*.








_____

Reminder: what really happened at Bucha. Another NATO-zionist crime blamed on an adversary, conclude expert analysts.

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MAY 27​May 27, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF

*Kateryna Stepanenko and Mason Clark
May 27, 7:30pm ET*​*Russian forces began direct assaults on Severodonetsk on May 27 despite not yet having fully encircled the town. *Russian forces have performed poorly in operations in built-up urban terrain throughout the war to date and are unlikely to be able to advance rapidly in Severodonetsk itself. Russian forces continue to make steady and incremental gains around the city but have not yet encircled the Ukrainian defenders. Ukrainian forces continue to maintain defenses across eastern Ukraine and have slowed most Russian lines of advance. Russian forces will likely continue to make incremental advances and may succeed in encircling Severodonetsk in the coming days, but Russian operations around Izyum remain stalled and Russian forces will likely be unable to increase the pace of their advances.
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces began direct assaults on built-up areas of Severodonetsk without having fully encircled the city and will likely struggle to take ground in the city itself.*
*Russian forces in Lyman appear to be dividing their efforts—attacking both southwest to support stalled forces in Izyum and southeast to advance on Siversk; they will likely struggle to accomplish either objective in the coming days.*
*Russian forces in Popasna seek to advance north to support the encirclement of Severodonestk rather than advancing west toward Bakhmut.*
*Positions northeast of Kharkiv City remain largely static, with no major attacks by either Russian or Ukrainian forces.*
*Russian forces continue to fortify their defensive positions along the southern axis and advance efforts to integrate the Kherson region into Russian economic and political structures.*
*

*
*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.
ISW has updated its assessment of the four primary efforts Russian forces are engaged in at this time. We have stopped coverage of Mariupol as a separate effort since the city’s fall. We had added a new section on activities in Russian-occupied areas:*

Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
Supporting effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting effort 2—Southern Axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces began direct assaults on built-up areas of Severodonetsk on May 27 without having fully encircled the city and cut off the Ukrainian defenders. Geolocated videos confirmed that Chechen units seized a hotel located in the northern part of Severodonetsk on May 27. Severodonetsk Military-Civil Administration Head Oleksiy Stryuk reported that Ukrainian forces previously repelled Russian attacks on the hotel on May 26, but Russian forces captured the position sometime on May 27.[1] Luhansk Oblast Head Serhiy Haidai said that Russian forces also conducted offensive operations just southeast of Rubizhne toward Severodonetsk.[2] Russian forces also continued to push on Severodonetsk via Ustynka and Borisvske just 9km and 14km southeast of the city, respectively.[3] The Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) falsely claimed that Russian forces cut off all routes and surrounded Severodonetsk, trapping Ukrainian units in the Severodonetsk cauldron, though this is untrue and Russian forces have not yet fully encircled Ukrainian defenders.[4] Ukrainian sources differed on the extent of Russian advances, with Stryuk estimating that Russian forces have encircled approximately two-thirds of Severodonetsk’s perimeter and Haidai stating Russian forces have only reached the city’s outskirts.[5]



Russian forces likely seek to advance toward Slovyansk from Lyman to the north due to stalled operations south of Izyum.[6] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces shelled two settlements approximately 30km and 35km southeast of Izyum and conducted limited attacks south from Lyman.[7] Russian forces have been unable to advance south from Izyum on the E40 highway due to Ukrainian resistance along the road and may now be changing their approach to attack toward Slovyansk from the northeast. The Ukrainian General Staff also noted that Russian forces in Kharkiv Oblast are training personnel to replenish infantry, tank, and artillery units, and deployed the 29th Separate Railway Brigade from Smolensk to Kharkiv Oblast, likely to generate new forces and restore logistics to attempt to resume stalled offensive operations southeast of Izyum.[8]
Russian forces in Lyman are additionally attacking southeast toward Siversk as part of ongoing efforts to encircle Ukrainian defenders in the town.[9] Russian forces will likely attempt to seize the roads leading to Severodonetsk from the northwest to sever Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) in Luhansk Oblast.[10] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces fired mortars and rocket-propelled grenades on settlements within a 20km range of northwestern Siversk and launched an airstrike on Siversk on May 27.[11] Russian forces in Lyman appear to be dividing their efforts—attacking both southwest to support stalled forces in Izyum and southeast to advance on Siversk; they will likely struggle to accomplish either objective in the coming days based on past Russian performance.
Russian forces attempted to seize access to two highways east and northeast of Popasna on May 27 in a continued effort to partially disrupt Ukrainian GLOCs to Severodonetsk. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces continued assaults against villages adjacent to the T1302 highway from Bakhmut to Lysychansk, just northeast of Popasna.[12] Russian forces also attacked east of Popasna to secure access to the T1303 highway to Lysychansk.[13] Russian forces are likely prioritizing the Lysychansk direction, rather than advancing toward Bakhmut, to support Russia’s main effort operations in Severodonetsk.



*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces did not launch any ground assaults against Ukrainian defenders north of Kharkiv City on May 27. Russian forces continued systematic shelling of Ukrainian-liberated villages to preserve their defensive positions near the Ukrainian-Russian state border.[14] Ukraine’s Security Service reported that entire Russian units rioted and refused to conduct an offensive operation on Kharkiv City, though ISW cannot independently confirm this claim.[15]



*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces continued to fortify their positions along the southern axis.[16] Ukrainian Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) Representative Vadym Skibitsky reported that Russian forces are currently building a third line of defense in Kherson Oblast and are consolidating their control over railroads, airfields, and ports.[17] The Zaporizhia Oblast Military Administration also said that Russian forces transferred land, air, and sea military equipment from Crimea on May 26, including 24 "Grad” MLRS systems.[18] The Ukrainian Southern Operational Command reported that Russian forces also continued to deploy reservists from Crimea.[19] The UK Defense Ministry noted that Russian forces deployed 50-year-old T-62 tanks from storage to the southern axis.[20]
Russian forces launched an unsuccessful ground attack near the Kherson-Mykolaiv Oblast border and continued artillery and airstrikes throughout southern Ukraine, the first attack near Kherson for several weeks.[21] This attack is unlikely to be part of a wider offensive operation. Russian forces also launched a missile strike on the Motor Sich Plant in Zaporizhia City on May 26 but missed the target and damaged residential infrastructure nearby.[22]



*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian forces continued to set conditions for the long-term occupation of Ukraine’s southern regions. Ukrainian Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) Representative Vadym Skibitsky reported that Russian occupation forces are likely preparing for referendums on the occupied territories in September or October.[23] Russian occupation authorities began transitioning Zaporizhia Oblast to the Russian time zone and introducing Russian license plates; they also promised to establish new subsidy and tax systems in the near future.[24] Russian occupation officials are additionally reportedly attempting to create an Internal Ministry subordinate to the Kherson Oblast Civil-Military Administration to support occupation administration and possibly support integration with Russia’s own Internal Ministry.[25] The Zaporizhia Oblast Military Administration reported that Russian authorities continued to hand out Russian passports to Melitopol residents, which will allow the Kremlin to mobilize and control the movements of inhabitants of the occupied territories and conscript them for military service. These efforts will also allow the Kremlin to claim it is protecting Russian citizens, as it did in the DNR and LNR prior to February 24.[26]
Russian occupation officials are struggling to subdue Ukrainian partisan activity in the south. The GUR intercepted a call with a Melitopol resident who noted a rise in unspecified partisan activity in Kyrylivka, a coastal town just south of Melitopol.[27] GUR representative Skibitsky also claimed that Russian forces began avoiding bridges and roads, likely to avoid Ukrainian partisan attacks.[28]
*Immediate items to watch*

Russian forces are likely reinforcing their grouping north of Kharkiv City to prevent further advances of the Ukrainian counteroffensive toward the Russian border. Russian forces may commit elements of the 1st Tank Army to northern Kharkiv in the near future. 
Russian forces are unlikely to advance rapidly in direct assaults against Severodonetsk, but supporting operations to fully encircle the town will likely continue to secure incremental gains.
Occupation forces in Mariupol will continue to strengthen administrative control of the city but are likely unsure of what the ultimate annexation policy will be.
Russian forces are likely preparing for Ukrainian counteroffensives and settling in for protracted operations in southern Ukraine.

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## sammuel

SalarHaqq said:


> _____



Another example of your silly attempts to mislead people.

First coin was actually made by an SS-members Leopold von Mildenstein and Kurt Tuchler, who suggested solution of the Jewish question should be for the German Jews’ emigration to Palestine. The coin was their own private initiative.

Second coin does not even relate to the issue. That is not a Nazi swastika on the coin , but the ancient religious symbol used various Eurasian cultures.

Stop misleading people.


~

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## DF41

SalarHaqq said:


> @Hassan Al-Somal
> 
> Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, true heir to Soviet anti-fascism (the authentic, original anti-fascism not its fake, usurpative Trotskyist or zionist avatars).
> 
> New statue of Stalin inaugurated in 2019 at Novosibjirsk:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/05/russia-stalin-statue/590140/
> 
> Russian forces and Russian citizens flying the Soviet flag of victory over Nazism and Banderism:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 848512
> 
> 
> Wonderful people. They shall liberate all of Europe from lunatic NATO and zionist extremists. The hopes of free nations of the world rest with Russia in its struggle against the genocidal, Nazi-like ruling oligarchy of the NATO regimes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 848525
> 
> View attachment 848511
> 
> 
> And their protectors in Occupied Palestine:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Subjects who've realized the true face of the bloodthirsty apartheid regime holding them hostage:
> 
> View attachment 848510
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 848513
> 
> View attachment 848514
> 
> View attachment 848515
> 
> 
> Islamophobic British neo-fascists posing with zionist flag:
> 
> View attachment 848516
> 
> 
> British king Edward VIII and queen of England were avid admirers of Hitler:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> German xenophobic far right with zionist flags:
> 
> View attachment 848518
> 
> 
> Birds of a feather.

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## LeGenD

Members are advised to be mindful of racism while posting here. Some of the recent posts are bordering racism.

@PakFactor
@Corax
@Hassan Al-Somal

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## KAL-EL

LeGenD said:


> Members are advised to be mindful of racism while posting here. Some of the recent posts are bordering racism.



Very good that this thread is being properly observed.

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## DF41

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529833999102787586
> All the power of rocket artillery group V of the Russian troops.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chechen forces seize new NATO weapons in Krasnyi Lyman


 




.

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## StraightEdge

Reuters on Twitter: "Ukraine says troops may retreat from eastern region as Russia advances https://t.co/hMyrqJVwaG https://t.co/Dz1BPD1UMM" / Twitter

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## DF41

Latest game changer used by Nazis


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530380454494339072


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530311375221837825

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## northeast

Raffie said:


> No need : Russian birth rate is hitting the bottom and eastern regions are emptying...Note that China's birth rate is falling apart too.
> Maintaining nukes costs big money, and even more for their vectors... You know, the 1st launch of an hypersonic Zirkon they've shown, was in fact an old P-500 Bazalt...
> With 20-25% of the military budget embezzled, what is the less likely to be used is the more likely to get stolen... Most of their NPPs are running on military grade uranum or plutonium since the cold war... Are you sure they still have thousands of nukes???
> The same lunatics that thought PRC would never invade Tibet then illegally occupy it for 7 decades+? Or the lunatics that thought Putin wouldn't invade Ukraine?
> Mao tried to invade the USSR while he had no nukes and soviets already had thermonuclear, you know...


I have a suggestion for you,stop reading your bullcrap western propaganda media before people like you start trying to convince france to invade russia. It maybe too late for you,but at least it's free to try.

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## Viet

Per Ukraine’s army general staff Putin’s invasion army lost 29,350 soldiers, 1,302 tanks, 3,194 armored verhicles and 606 artillery. Russia will run low on resources end of the year.









Ukraine-Krieg: Wann Russlands Armee nicht mehr einsatzfähig ist


Der Ukraine-Krieg wirkt nach drei Monaten festgefahren. Doch für Russlands Armee tickt die Uhr.




www.fr.de


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## jamahir

Viet said:


> You can spew endless lies all days you want. That doesn’t alter the fact Russian is a facist country run by a racist. Putin wages a racial motivated war camouflaged as Nazi hunting operation. The way how they merciless destroy Ukraine cities resembles facism.



North Korean city of Wonsan being destroyed by NATO air force in 1951 :






A Libyan city destroyed by NATO in 2011 :





From 1951 to 2011 the destruction mentality of the oppressive Capitalist imperialist NATO continues yet you blame Russia ?

And about Russian racist why are you so blatantly ignoring wails by Western mainstream media and Ukrainian Nazis about how the ebeel Russians were killing blue-eyed and blond European people ?

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## wahhab0202

Viet said:


> Per Ukraine’s army general staff Putin’s invasion army lost 29,350 soldiers, 1,302 tanks, 3,194 armored verhicles and 606 artillery. Russia will run low on resources end of the year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine-Krieg: Wann Russlands Armee nicht mehr einsatzfähig ist
> 
> 
> Der Ukraine-Krieg wirkt nach drei Monaten festgefahren. Doch für Russlands Armee tickt die Uhr.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.fr.de


That has been said many times in the past, nothing is true. During the 2 weeks of invasion I had an imagination that Russia won't be last in Ukraine for another 2-3 weeks thanks to the Ukraine's massive propaganda war. Now I knew I was wrong. Not only Russia survive the war but they are actually thrive.

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## wahhab0202

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530342112591585280
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530342113908510722
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530321422048014338


what makes you think that the story of Switchblade that supposed to a weapon of game changing won't be repeated again by this long range rockets?

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## A.P. Richelieu

jamahir said:


> North Korean city of Wonsan being destroyed by NATO air force in 1951 :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Libyan city destroyed by NATO in 2011 :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From 1951 to 2011 the destruction mentality of the oppressive Capitalist imperialist NATO continues yet you blame Russia ?
> 
> And about Russian racist why are you so blatantly ignoring wails by Western mainstream media and Ukrainian Nazis about how the ebeel Russians were killing blue-eyed and blond European people ?


NATO did not have any operations in Korea.
North Korea was fought by the United Nations after starting a Soviet/China supported war of aggression.

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## Nuclear Clown

sammuel said:


> Another example of your silly attempts to mislead people.
> 
> First coin was actually made by an SS-members Leopold von Mildenstein and Kurt Tuchler, who suggested solution of the Jewish question should be for the German Jews’ emigration to Palestine. The coin was their own private initiative.
> 
> Second coin does not even relate to the issue. That is not a Nazi swastika on the coin , but the ancient religious symbol used various Eurasian cultures.
> 
> Stop misleading people.


And BTW, they don't want to see this:










SalarHaqq said:


> _____
> 
> Reminder: what really happened at Bucha. Another NATO-zionist crime blamed on an adversary, conclude expert analysts.


Meet with Amin al-Husseini, Yasser Arafat's uncle:




Then...




*Why Russia doesn't bombs Gaza, or West Bank?*





*Why Russia doesn't bombs Hamas, Hezbollah, Palestinian Authority or **(Assad ally) **Syrian Social Nationalist Party?*
Maybe...Because Assad, Putin, Nasrallah, Haniyeh as well as Ali Khamenei are also Nazi-Jews, and allied with Israel, QED ??? Same for the Commies : Karl Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, Kameneev, Zinoviev...All Jews, So is Sergei Lavrov.
It's a global conspiracy coined by extraterrestrials




And Hitler was a rapper

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## RoadAmerica

SalarHaqq said:


> _____
> 
> Reminder: what really happened at Bucha. Another NATO-zionist crime blamed on an adversary, conclude expert analysts.


Thanks for referencing Scott aka Mr RT, couldn’t have found a more one sided person 👍🏿



DF41 said:


> View attachment 848569


3 day special operation, that foot is shoeless

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## jamahir

A.P. Richelieu said:


> NATO did not have any operations in Korea.
> North Korea was fought by the United Nations after starting a Soviet/China supported war of aggression.



Ah yes, the "United Nations" which yesterday I have told one of your fanatic thankers, @Raffie, that it is just an extension of Western Capitalist governments aka NATO aka Crusders. The UN Security Council aka UN Terrorist Council as Muammar Gaddafi succinctly put it in 2009 in his UN General Assembly address, is not only anti-democratic because it doesn't consult with the rest of the delegations in the UN General Assembly nor with every person in the countries or movements represented by those UNGA delegations ( which it should have been through Communist direct democracy ) but also because the UNTC just is an expression of the will of NATO to go ahead with regime-changing wars, genocidal wars and general regime changes even with dissent by the two non-NATO permanent members especially USSR / Russia.

In 1950 how did "United Nations" aka NATO start a war with two members of the United Nations - USSR and China ? If the Democratic People's Republic of Korea wanted to expel Capitalists from the entire Korean area and bring a progressive society there what bloody business was it of the Western imperialists to interfere ? To maintain dominance of anti-human Capitalism in many places in the world NATO genocided one million North Koreans in the three year Korea War. In waging that war the NATO governments and allied governments ( like of my India ) went against the democratic rights of many of their citizens who were against their anti-democratic governments waging war against North Korea, a war of Capitalist imperialism that resulted in the genocide of one million North Koreans and the destruction of NK's cities.

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## Primus

What a shit show this thread has become 

Some dude from France accusing others about fascism 🤡

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530196676211785736


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## MeFishToo

I am wondering if russian or ukrainian IFV dont carry air burst rounds. This conflict has been documented like no one before, but I havent seen a single video showing air burst yet.


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## beast89

Huffal said:


> What a shit show this thread has become
> 
> Some dude from France accusing others about fascism 🤡



Dudes israeli

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## A.P. Richelieu

jamahir said:


> Ah yes, the "United Nations" which yesterday I have told one of your fanatic thankers, @Raffie, that it is just an extension of Western Capitalist governments aka NATO aka Crusders. The UN Security Council aka UN Terrorist Council as Muammar Gaddafi succinctly put it in 2009 in his UN General Assembly address, is not only anti-democratic because it doesn't consult with the rest of the delegations in the UN General Assembly nor with every person in the countries or movements represented by those UNGA delegations ( which it should have been through Communist direct democracy ) but also because the UNTC just is an expression of the will of NATO to go ahead with regime-changing wars, genocidal wars and general regime changes even with dissent by the two non-NATO permanent members especially USSR / Russia.
> 
> In 1950 how did "United Nations" aka NATO start a war with two members of the United Nations - USSR and China ? If the Democratic People's Republic of Korea wanted to expel Capitalists from the entire Korean area and bring a progressive society there what bloody business was it of the Western imperialists to interfere ? To maintain dominance of anti-human Capitalism in many places in the world NATO genocided one million North Koreans in the three year Korea War. In waging that war the NATO governments and allied governments ( like of my India ) went against the democratic rights of many of their citizens who were against their anti-democratic governments waging war against North Korea, a war of Capitalist imperialism that resulted in the genocide of one million North Koreans and the destruction of NK's cities.


The war was started by North Korea, and the only genocide was that of the North Koreans when they started mass executions in Seoul.
The United Nations did not start a war with China or the Soviet Union.
Both these countries started a war with the United Nations.

Gaddaffi was following Goebbels advice - to accuse opponents of his own crimes.
He ordered the killing of innocent civilians in multiple terrorist acts like Lockerbie and this serial rapist got a suitable end being killed in the gutter by his own people.


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## LeGenD

@SalarHaqq
@Raffie
@jamahir

Kindly stay on topic.

-----

Russian hardware closely examined:









Captured Russian Weapons Are Packed With U.S. Microchips


Ukraine intelligence showed us lists of mostly U.S.-made microchips it says were found on captured or destroyed Russian military equipment.




www.thedrive.com





Latest on Russian advances in the East:









Ukraine Situation Report: Russian Forces Advance In Key Eastern Cities


Ukrainian forces are fighting against encirclement to prevent invading units from seizing half of the eastern Donbas region.




www.thedrive.com





-----

There are unconfirmed reports of another Russian Su-35S shot down.

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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530504355647987712

Which make me wonder why the pathetic reports from that Institute Study of War always made its appearance?

As that totally discredited when you see the line up of those ghouls and monsters making their crappy report filtered via NED and guys like Pomeo.

As if anyone interested in the truth or seek the truth find that from a bunch that always tell lies after lies after lies


To avoid seeing below again, I am considering on sending that entity to where sun and moon never shine and cockroaches roam that he can search and search for the truth there.





TruthSeeker said:


> RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MAY 27​May 27, 2022 - Press ISW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Download the PDF
> 
> *Kateryna Stepanenko and Mason Clark
> May 27, 7:30pm ET*​*Russian forces began direct assaults on Severodonetsk on May 27 despite not yet having fully encircled the town. *Russian forces have performed poorly in operations in built-up urban terrain throughout the war to date and are unlikely to be able to advance rapidly in Severodonetsk itself. Russian forces continue to make steady and incremental gains around the city but have not yet encircled the Ukrainian defenders. Ukrainian forces continue to maintain defenses across eastern Ukraine and have slowed most Russian lines of advance. Russian forces will likely continue to make incremental advances and may succeed in encircling Severodonetsk in the coming days, but Russian operations around Izyum remain stalled and Russian forces will likely be unable to increase the pace of their advances.
> *Key Takeaways*
> 
> *Russian forces began direct assaults on built-up areas of Severodonetsk without having fully encircled the city and will likely struggle to take ground in the city itself.*
> *Russian forces in Lyman appear to be dividing their efforts—attacking both southwest to support stalled forces in Izyum and southeast to advance on Siversk; they will likely struggle to accomplish either objective in the coming days.*
> *Russian forces in Popasna seek to advance north to support the encirclement of Severodonestk rather than advancing west toward Bakhmut.*
> *Positions northeast of Kharkiv City remain largely static, with no major attacks by either Russian or Ukrainian forces.*
> *Russian forces continue to fortify their defensive positions along the southern axis and advance efforts to integrate the Kherson region into Russian economic and political structures.*
> *
> 
> *
> *We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.
> ISW has updated its assessment of the four primary efforts Russian forces are engaged in at this time. We have stopped coverage of Mariupol as a separate effort since the city’s fall. We had added a new section on activities in Russian-occupied areas:*
> 
> Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
> Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
> Supporting effort 1—Kharkiv City;
> Supporting effort 2—Southern Axis;
> Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
> *Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
> Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
> Russian forces began direct assaults on built-up areas of Severodonetsk on May 27 without having fully encircled the city and cut off the Ukrainian defenders. Geolocated videos confirmed that Chechen units seized a hotel located in the northern part of Severodonetsk on May 27. Severodonetsk Military-Civil Administration Head Oleksiy Stryuk reported that Ukrainian forces previously repelled Russian attacks on the hotel on May 26, but Russian forces captured the position sometime on May 27.[1] Luhansk Oblast Head Serhiy Haidai said that Russian forces also conducted offensive operations just southeast of Rubizhne toward Severodonetsk.[2] Russian forces also continued to push on Severodonetsk via Ustynka and Borisvske just 9km and 14km southeast of the city, respectively.[3] The Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) falsely claimed that Russian forces cut off all routes and surrounded Severodonetsk, trapping Ukrainian units in the Severodonetsk cauldron, though this is untrue and Russian forces have not yet fully encircled Ukrainian defenders.[4] Ukrainian sources differed on the extent of Russian advances, with Stryuk estimating that Russian forces have encircled approximately two-thirds of Severodonetsk’s perimeter and Haidai stating Russian forces have only reached the city’s outskirts.[5]
> 
> 
> 
> Russian forces likely seek to advance toward Slovyansk from Lyman to the north due to stalled operations south of Izyum.[6] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces shelled two settlements approximately 30km and 35km southeast of Izyum and conducted limited attacks south from Lyman.[7] Russian forces have been unable to advance south from Izyum on the E40 highway due to Ukrainian resistance along the road and may now be changing their approach to attack toward Slovyansk from the northeast. The Ukrainian General Staff also noted that Russian forces in Kharkiv Oblast are training personnel to replenish infantry, tank, and artillery units, and deployed the 29th Separate Railway Brigade from Smolensk to Kharkiv Oblast, likely to generate new forces and restore logistics to attempt to resume stalled offensive operations southeast of Izyum.[8]
> Russian forces in Lyman are additionally attacking southeast toward Siversk as part of ongoing efforts to encircle Ukrainian defenders in the town.[9] Russian forces will likely attempt to seize the roads leading to Severodonetsk from the northwest to sever Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) in Luhansk Oblast.[10] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces fired mortars and rocket-propelled grenades on settlements within a 20km range of northwestern Siversk and launched an airstrike on Siversk on May 27.[11] Russian forces in Lyman appear to be dividing their efforts—attacking both southwest to support stalled forces in Izyum and southeast to advance on Siversk; they will likely struggle to accomplish either objective in the coming days based on past Russian performance.
> Russian forces attempted to seize access to two highways east and northeast of Popasna on May 27 in a continued effort to partially disrupt Ukrainian GLOCs to Severodonetsk. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces continued assaults against villages adjacent to the T1302 highway from Bakhmut to Lysychansk, just northeast of Popasna.[12] Russian forces also attacked east of Popasna to secure access to the T1303 highway to Lysychansk.[13] Russian forces are likely prioritizing the Lysychansk direction, rather than advancing toward Bakhmut, to support Russia’s main effort operations in Severodonetsk.
> 
> 
> 
> *Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
> Russian forces did not launch any ground assaults against Ukrainian defenders north of Kharkiv City on May 27. Russian forces continued systematic shelling of Ukrainian-liberated villages to preserve their defensive positions near the Ukrainian-Russian state border.[14] Ukraine’s Security Service reported that entire Russian units rioted and refused to conduct an offensive operation on Kharkiv City, though ISW cannot independently confirm this claim.[15]
> 
> 
> 
> *Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
> Russian forces continued to fortify their positions along the southern axis.[16] Ukrainian Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) Representative Vadym Skibitsky reported that Russian forces are currently building a third line of defense in Kherson Oblast and are consolidating their control over railroads, airfields, and ports.[17] The Zaporizhia Oblast Military Administration also said that Russian forces transferred land, air, and sea military equipment from Crimea on May 26, including 24 "Grad” MLRS systems.[18] The Ukrainian Southern Operational Command reported that Russian forces also continued to deploy reservists from Crimea.[19] The UK Defense Ministry noted that Russian forces deployed 50-year-old T-62 tanks from storage to the southern axis.[20]
> Russian forces launched an unsuccessful ground attack near the Kherson-Mykolaiv Oblast border and continued artillery and airstrikes throughout southern Ukraine, the first attack near Kherson for several weeks.[21] This attack is unlikely to be part of a wider offensive operation. Russian forces also launched a missile strike on the Motor Sich Plant in Zaporizhia City on May 26 but missed the target and damaged residential infrastructure nearby.[22]
> 
> 
> 
> *Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
> Russian forces continued to set conditions for the long-term occupation of Ukraine’s southern regions. Ukrainian Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) Representative Vadym Skibitsky reported that Russian occupation forces are likely preparing for referendums on the occupied territories in September or October.[23] Russian occupation authorities began transitioning Zaporizhia Oblast to the Russian time zone and introducing Russian license plates; they also promised to establish new subsidy and tax systems in the near future.[24] Russian occupation officials are additionally reportedly attempting to create an Internal Ministry subordinate to the Kherson Oblast Civil-Military Administration to support occupation administration and possibly support integration with Russia’s own Internal Ministry.[25] The Zaporizhia Oblast Military Administration reported that Russian authorities continued to hand out Russian passports to Melitopol residents, which will allow the Kremlin to mobilize and control the movements of inhabitants of the occupied territories and conscript them for military service. These efforts will also allow the Kremlin to claim it is protecting Russian citizens, as it did in the DNR and LNR prior to February 24.[26]
> Russian occupation officials are struggling to subdue Ukrainian partisan activity in the south. The GUR intercepted a call with a Melitopol resident who noted a rise in unspecified partisan activity in Kyrylivka, a coastal town just south of Melitopol.[27] GUR representative Skibitsky also claimed that Russian forces began avoiding bridges and roads, likely to avoid Ukrainian partisan attacks.[28]
> *Immediate items to watch*
> 
> Russian forces are likely reinforcing their grouping north of Kharkiv City to prevent further advances of the Ukrainian counteroffensive toward the Russian border. Russian forces may commit elements of the 1st Tank Army to northern Kharkiv in the near future.
> Russian forces are unlikely to advance rapidly in direct assaults against Severodonetsk, but supporting operations to fully encircle the town will likely continue to secure incremental gains.
> Occupation forces in Mariupol will continue to strengthen administrative control of the city but are likely unsure of what the ultimate annexation policy will be.
> Russian forces are likely preparing for Ukrainian counteroffensives and settling in for protracted operations in southern Ukraine.

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## ckf

A.P. Richelieu said:


> NATO did not have any operations in Korea.
> North Korea was fought by the United Nations after starting a Soviet/China supported war of aggression.


North Korea was fighting to unite Korea peninsula much like Vietnam. US supported south, and drummed up support by its puppet UN to form a coalition army to invade Korea.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530462634008580097

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530494259710803968

Ukraine has received Harpoons and M109 self propelled howitzers.

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## Ali_Baba

LeGenD said:


> @SalarHaqq
> @Raffie
> @jamahir
> 
> Kindly stay on topic.
> 
> -----
> 
> Russian hardware closely examined:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Captured Russian Weapons Are Packed With U.S. Microchips
> 
> 
> Ukraine intelligence showed us lists of mostly U.S.-made microchips it says were found on captured or destroyed Russian military equipment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Latest on Russian advances in the East:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine Situation Report: Russian Forces Advance In Key Eastern Cities
> 
> 
> Ukrainian forces are fighting against encirclement to prevent invading units from seizing half of the eastern Donbas region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----
> 
> There are unconfirmed reports of another Russian Su-35S shot down.



You beat me into posting that report! ( i was to busy laughing while reading it ... ).

It does explain why Russians are soo soo damn keen on taking washing machines back to Russia - it is quite simple it seems - orders from the top - it is for spare parts for their tanks, planes and cruise missiles it seems !!!!!!!!!

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## ckf

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530494259710803968
> 
> Ukraine has received Harpoons and M109 self propelled howitzers.


None of these will matter(MLRS, Harpoons, artilleries, tanks) when Ukraine has no forward logistic and supply capabilities. Russia dictate terms of engagement and will eventually grind Ukraine to submission by using Missiles, long range artillery and air bombardments. Ukrainian Army are just Cannon fodders for the Americans.

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## MeFishToo

ckf said:


> None of these will matter(MLRS, Harpoons, artilleries, tanks) when Ukraine has no forward logistic and supply capabilities. Russia dictate terms of engagement and will eventually grind Ukraine to submission by using Missiles, long range artillery and air bombardments. Ukrainian Army are just Cannon fodders for the Americans.


A Harpoon coastal defence system is like four trucks in place somewhere near the coastline, just waiting for a target. Doesnt really need logistics or supply.
The ukrainians seems to be fighting for themselfs, no matter how hard the russians are trying to create this false narrative of the americans using ukraine.


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## A.P. Richelieu

North Korea was fighting to subdue South Korea much like North Vietnam subdued South Vietnam creating a million refugees. US supported south, and drummed up support by UN to form a coalition army to defend South Korea against Communist aggression.
Now Vietnam is a dictatorship, and South Korea is not.

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## jamal18

Even the western press, drum beaters of a Ukrainian victory, seem to be accepting that it's all over on the Donbass/ Eastern Ukraine front.

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## ckf

A.P. Richelieu said:


> North Korea was fighting to subdue South Korea much like North Vietnam subdued South Vietnam creating a million refugees. US supported south, and drummed up support by UN to form a coalition army to defend South Korea against Communist aggression.
> Now Vietnam is a dictatorship, and South Korea is not.


I think the key word is aggression, US started Korea war through intervention and then China entered the War. US/UN directly intervened and started the aggression. That fact cannot be denied. Macarthur even suggested to use Nukes, so your logic is way off bases.

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## A.P. Richelieu

ckf said:


> I think the key word is aggression, US started Korea war through intervention and then China entered the War. So
> 
> I think the key word is supported aggression, US/UN directly intervened and started the aggression. That fact cannot be denied. Macarthur even suggested to use Nukes, so your logic is way off bases.


The aggression was started by the North Korea invading South Korea On June 25th 1950.
The US responded in July after a UNSC resolution.
To deny those well known facts is embarassing.

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## Nuclear Clown

jamahir said:


> Ah yes, the "United Nations" which yesterday I have told one of your fanatic thankers, @Raffie, that it is just an extension of Western Capitalist governments aka NATO aka Crusders. The UN Security Council aka UN Terrorist Council as Muammar Gaddafi succinctly put it in 2009 in his UN General Assembly address, is not only anti-democratic because it doesn't consult with the rest of the delegations in the UN General Assembly nor with every person in the countries or movements represented by those UNGA delegations ( which it should have been through Communist direct democracy ) but also because the UNTC just is an expression of the will of NATO to go ahead with regime-changing wars, genocidal wars and general regime changes even with dissent by the two non-NATO permanent members especially USSR / Russia.
> 
> In 1950 how did "United Nations" aka NATO start a war with two members of the United Nations - USSR and China ? If the Democratic People's Republic of Korea wanted to expel Capitalists from the entire Korean area and bring a progressive society there what bloody business was it of the Western imperialists to interfere ? To maintain dominance of anti-human Capitalism in many places in the world NATO genocided one million North Koreans in the three year Korea War. In waging that war the NATO governments and allied governments ( like of my India ) went against the democratic rights of many of their citizens who were against their anti-democratic governments waging war against North Korea, a war of Capitalist imperialism that resulted in the genocide of one million North Koreans and the destruction of NK's cities.


That's why Commie China inherited the seat of the Republic of China (around 1970), and the USSR, India or Israel were involved in the UN, all were leftist in the 40's-60's...
It's clear that, today, Russia and Commie China are more capitalist than the West, in fact, they perfectly fit the definition of fascism by its inventor, Benito Mussolini : "capitalism pushed to the extreme"
If you see the Yanlees as "dirty capitalists", guess what? Putin, Jinping or Khamenei are even more capitalist and imperialist too, BTW, Khamenei is as rich as Jeff Bezos, and Putin is twice as rich...
Putin's daughter owns a €8M mansion in Biaritz, France; Lavrov's daughter in law a £4.4M apartment in London.

*AND DON'T YOU FORGET THE UN DIDN'T STARTED THE KOREAN WAR!!! 
Korean People's Army (KPA) forces crossed the border and drove into South Korea on 25 June 1950. Joseph Stalin had final decision power and several times demanded North Korea postpone the invasion, until he and Mao Zedong both gave their final approval in spring 1950. The United Nations Security Council denounced the North Korean move as an invasion and authorized the formation of the United Nations Command and the dispatch of forces to Korea to repel it. The Soviet Union was boycotting the UN for recognizing Taiwan (Republic of China) as China, and PRC (People's Republic of China) on the mainland was not recognized by the UN, so neither could support their ally North Korea at the Security Council meeting. *

Gosh, do your classes!
Crusders? are these a specie of Crustacean?
This is very insulting







northeast said:


> I have a suggestion for you,stop reading your bullcrap western propaganda media before people like you start trying to convince france to invade russia. It maybe too late for you,but at least it's free to try.


I have two suggestions for you:
Free Tibet
Chinese Democracy


----------



## northeast

Raffie said:


> That's why Commie China inherited the seat of the Republic of China (around 1970), and the USSR, India or Israel were involved, all were leftist in the 40's-60's...
> It's clear that, today, Russia and Commie China are more capitalist than the West, in fact, they perfectly fit the definition of fascism by its inventor, Benito Mussolini : "capitalism pushed to the extreme"
> If you see the Yanlees as "dirty capitalists", guess what? Putin, Jinping or Khamenei are even more capitalist and imperialist too, BTW, Khamenei is as rich as Jeff Bezos, and Putin is twice as rich...
> Putin's daughter owns a €8M mansion in Biaritz, France; Lavrov's daughter in law a £4.4M apartment in London.
> 
> *AND DON'T YOU FORGET THE UN DIDN'T STARTED THE KOREAN WAR!!!
> Korean People's Army (KPA) forces crossed the border and drove into South Korea on 25 June 1950. Joseph Stalin had final decision power and several times demanded North Korea postpone the invasion, until he and Mao Zedong both gave their final approval in spring 1950. The United Nations Security Council denounced the North Korean move as an invasion and authorized the formation of the United Nations Command and the dispatch of forces to Korea to repel it. The Soviet Union was boycotting the UN for recognizing Taiwan (Republic of China) as China, and PRC (People's Republic of China) on the mainland was not recognized by the UN, so neither could support their ally North Korea at the Security Council meeting. *
> 
> Gosh, do your classes!
> Crusders? are these a specie of Crustacean?
> This is very insulting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have two suggestions for you:
> Free Tibet
> Chinese Democracy


Again,only western lunatics think china is more capitalist and imperialist than USA, doesn't even need to be explained.

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## northeast

Raffie said:


> That's why Commie China inherited the seat of the Republic of China (around 1970), and the USSR, India or Israel were involved in the UN, all were leftist in the 40's-60's...
> It's clear that, today, Russia and Commie China are more capitalist than the West, in fact, they perfectly fit the definition of fascism by its inventor, Benito Mussolini : "capitalism pushed to the extreme"
> If you see the Yanlees as "dirty capitalists", guess what? Putin, Jinping or Khamenei are even more capitalist and imperialist too, BTW, Khamenei is as rich as Jeff Bezos, and Putin is twice as rich...
> Putin's daughter owns a €8M mansion in Biaritz, France; Lavrov's daughter in law a £4.4M apartment in London.
> 
> *AND DON'T YOU FORGET THE UN DIDN'T STARTED THE KOREAN WAR!!!
> Korean People's Army (KPA) forces crossed the border and drove into South Korea on 25 June 1950. Joseph Stalin had final decision power and several times demanded North Korea postpone the invasion, until he and Mao Zedong both gave their final approval in spring 1950. The United Nations Security Council denounced the North Korean move as an invasion and authorized the formation of the United Nations Command and the dispatch of forces to Korea to repel it. The Soviet Union was boycotting the UN for recognizing Taiwan (Republic of China) as China, and PRC (People's Republic of China) on the mainland was not recognized by the UN, so neither could support their ally North Korea at the Security Council meeting. *
> 
> Gosh, do your classes!
> Crusders? are these a specie of Crustacean?
> This is very insulting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have two suggestions for you:
> Free Tibet
> Chinese Democracy


But those are not suggestions. You want to free tibet? Come and fight against the PLA, you are welcomed to have a try. CCP's approval rating is higher than 90%, you are also welcomed to come to have a try to overthrow it.

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## ckf

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The aggression was started by the North Korea invading South Korea On June 25th 1950.
> The US responded in July after a UNSC resolution.
> To deny those well known facts is embarassing.


But the point is direct US involvement and interference in the Korea peninsula through aggression. Korea fighting against Korea is only for self determination. When US get involved, its direct foreign aggression. US occupation of Korea still exists today in itawan, and Korea pays US ransom to host the bases. That's a form of aggression including Japan, and Germany with US bases. Fight for freedom and democracy is only in the eyes of the beholder. Afghanistan taught US a deep lesson in that regard.

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## Nuclear Clown

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530494259710803968Ukraine has received Harpoons and M109 self propelled howitzers.


*Harpoon +Global Hawk = ??? ... Does any one nails this?*








*Harpoon +Global Hawk = New restaurants of the Moskva franchise for the hammerheads of the Black Sea !!! *


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## mulj

Apparanetly russkies will win the battle for donbas after month or so grinding ukrainian army there. 
I think that UAF should think about their next move and try to prepare adequate defensive positions altough when donbas collapse it will be much harder for them to do that as the donabs is their maginot line so to speak.


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## A.P. Richelieu

ckf said:


> But the point is direct US involvement and interference in the Korea peninsula through aggression. Korea fighting against Korea is only for self determination. When US get involved, its direct foreign aggression. US occupation of Korea still exists today in itawan, and Korea pays US ransom to host the bases. That's a form of aggression including Japan, and Germany with US bases. Fight for freedom and democracy is only in the eyes of the beholder. Afghanistan taught US a deep lesson in that regard.


The point is that is was *UN* involvement to stop the criminal activities of North Korea and their sponsors China and the Soviet Union.
The UN has full rights to intervene in such cases.

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## northeast

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The point is that is was *UN* involvement to stop the criminal activities of North Korea and their sponsors China and the Soviet Union.
> The UN has full rights to intervene in such cases.


You had not only stop them,you had also invade north korea,that is why you got kicked out of north korea.

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## 925boy

DF41 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530504355647987712
> 
> Which make me wonder why the pathetic reports from that Institute Study of War always made its appearance?
> 
> As that totally discredited when you see the line up of those ghouls and monsters making their crappy report filtered via NED and guys like Pomeo.
> 
> As if anyone interested in the truth or seek the truth find that from a bunch that always tell lies after lies after lies
> 
> 
> To avoid seeing below again, I am considering on sending that entity to where sun and moon never shine and cockroaches roam that he can search and search for the truth there.


and @jhungary told me last week or so that ISW's maps are correct- WRONG!


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## jhungary

925boy said:


> and @jhungary told me last week or so that ISW's maps are correct- WRONG!


Care to explain how those "Map" was wrong? Other than crazy cat ladies conspiracy theory?

Have you been to Ukraine to know the progress was wrong? Because funny to say, I have been to Ukraine, and I am going back in July, and those map were pretty accurate when I was there.

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## ckf

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The point is that is was *UN* involvement to stop the criminal activities of North Korea and their sponsors China and the Soviet Union.
> The UN has full rights to intervene in such cases.


US used carpet bombing to kill 3 million Korean civilians, and killed another couple of million in Vietnam as well as using chemical weapons like agent orange. Why don't you talk about those atrocities? US media has covered up most of these heinous acts. So stop lecturing others on freedom and democracy as well as civilization values. US has no credibility what so ever.

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## Beny Karachun

nang2 said:


> They are more like hired guns for Russia. Just like how USA uses terrorists to fight wars against Russians. They are scums but they don't dictate political agenda of the country that employs them.
> 
> 
> Israel would if those skinheads start to kill Jews.


There is neo Nazis in Russia just as there's neo Nazis in Ukraine. Russia allies itself with mass murdering Syrians, Chechens that just 30 years ago were beheading Russians and a bunch of African cannibals, Russia has no moral grounds here

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## StraightEdge

Reuters on Twitter: "Russian gains in Ukraine's east indicate a shift in momentum in the war https://t.co/BbqMKDrbKq https://t.co/sUwg8pS6Yz" / Twitter

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529800130206978048
Putin is a lunatic

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## beast89

Good analysis

Chadimir's got this

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## A.P. Richelieu

ckf said:


> US used carpet bombing to kill 3 million Korea civilians, and killed another couple of million in Vietnam as well as using chemical weapons like agent orange. Why don't you talk about those atrocities? US media has covered up most of these heinous acts. So stop lecturing others on freedom and democracy as well as civilization values. US has no credibility what so ever.


Simply because they did not happen.
There were not 3 million civilian deaths total in the Korean War. Both North and South Koreans. North Korea executed civilians when they got a chance. They killed a significant part of all civilians.
Your Vietnam figures are also severely overestimated.
Again you appear to claim all civilians killed in the Vietnam War were killed by US Carpet Bombing.
Even when civilians are killed, it is not neccessarily an atrocity. When a civilian carrying ammunition down the Ho Chi Minh trail is killed by a bomb,it is not an atrocity.

Atrocities wre nit unheard off, but they certainly were not onesided.
When North Koreans enter a city, pick out a civilian from a list and give them a bullet in the head, that is an atrocity.
The VC did the same thing to the South Vietnamese.

Agent Orange is not a ”Chemical Weapon”. It was a defoliation liquid, that turned out to have some very undesirable side effects. It was used extensively in Sweden along railroads to keep them clean from vegetation. Once this became known, it was stopped.

You are very loose with facts, and most seems to be invented by you without regard to what actually happened.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530595518639915008
The liberation of Kherson from the Russian Nazis is just a matter of time

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530595518639915008
> The liberation of Kherson from the Russian Nazis is just a matter of time



The Ukrainians are currently training new and fresh brigades equipped with all the toys they have and will receive. They should have the upper hand by the summer and conduct effective and large counter offensives.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530595593357250560


----------



## jhungary

mulj said:


> Apparanetly russkies will win the battle for donbas after month or so grinding ukrainian army there.
> I think that UAF should think about their next move and try to prepare adequate defensive positions altough when donbas collapse it will be much harder for them to do that as the donabs is their maginot line so to speak.


Luhansk maybe, the entire donbas? I don't really think Russia can take the entire donbas region, well, not in a month or so grinding (At this rate they are advancing 1 to 2 miles a day, it will take them about 100-150 days to advance the entire length of Donbas Region.)

Problem is, Ukrainian Force are having 3 lines of defence, Even if Ukraine give up sievierodonetsk Russia would still need to punch thru the Siverskyi Donetsk river and attack Lysychansk. After that if the Russian pushed thru, then the Russian are facing Slovyansk - Bakhmut defense line. And then if they break thru that, the Russia are have to cross the Kramatorsk - Pokrovsk - Avdiivka line before they can take the entire Donbas......

This is going to take several month, if they can be done at all.

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## ckf

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Simply because they did not happen.
> There were not 3 million civilian deaths total in the Korean War. Both North and South Koreans. North Korea executed civilians when they got a chance. They killed a significant part of all civilians.
> Your Vietnam figures are also severely overestimated.
> Again you appear to claim all civilians killed in the Vietnam War were killed by US Carpet Bombing.
> Even when civilians are killed, it is not neccessarily an atrocity. When a civilian carrying ammunition down the Ho Chi Minh trail is killed by a bomb,it is not an atrocity.
> 
> Atrocities wre nit unheard off, but they certainly were not onesided.
> When North Koreans enter a city, pick out a civilian from a list and give them a bullet in the head, that is an atrocity.
> The VC did the same thing to the South Vietnamese.
> 
> Agent Orange is not a ”Chemical Weapon”. It was a defoliation liquid, that turned out to have some very undesirable side effects. It was used extensively in Sweden along railroads to keep them clean from vegetation. Once this became known, it was stopped.
> 
> You are very loose with facts, and most seems to be invented by you without regard to what actually happened.











Bombing of North Korea - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




Read the estimates by Soth Korea before spewing propaganda. The 3 million is estimated by North Korea.

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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> The Ukrainians are currently training new and fresh brigades equipped with all the toys they have and will receive. They should have the upper hand by the summer and conduct effective and large counter offensives.



Ukraine had 2 fresh divisions of which 1 tank brigade, and 1 not so fresh tank brigade + half of new 155mm artillery units few weeks ago.

A big question is how much of it goes to the East, and how much to the South.

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## A.P. Richelieu

ckf said:


> Bombing of North Korea - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read the estimates by Soth Korea before spewing propaganda. The 3 million is estimated by North Korea.



They include the millions which fled to South Korea.

"For North Korea, the Ministry estimated *1,500,000* total civilian casualties, including deaths, injuries, and *missing."*
All civilian casualties were not a result of bombing.

So where do you get three million civilians?
Note that the link claims a total of three million Koreans were killed on both sides and that includes soldiers.

So you are really not able to assimilate the information in your own link.

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## StraightEdge

*BREAKING NEWS - 

Ukrainian volunteers in the east feel abandoned as Russia advances - The Washington Post*

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## letsrock

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Simply because they did not happen.
> There were not 3 million civilian deaths total in the Korean War. Both North and South Koreans. North Korea executed civilians when they got a chance. They killed a significant part of all civilians.
> Your Vietnam figures are also severely overestimated.
> Again you appear to claim all civilians killed in the Vietnam War were killed by US Carpet Bombing.
> Even when civilians are killed, it is not neccessarily an atrocity. When a civilian carrying ammunition down the Ho Chi Minh trail is killed by a bomb,it is not an atrocity.
> 
> Atrocities wre nit unheard off, but they certainly were not onesided.
> When North Koreans enter a city, pick out a civilian from a list and give them a bullet in the head, that is an atrocity.
> The VC did the same thing to the South Vietnamese.
> 
> Agent Orange is not a ”Chemical Weapon”. It was a defoliation liquid, that turned out to have some very undesirable side effects. It was used extensively in Sweden along railroads to keep them clean from vegetation. Once this became known, it was stopped.
> 
> You are very loose with facts, and most seems to be invented by you without regard to what actually happened.


Stop being so full of sophistry and spin. What was the busniess to be in north korea to begin with ? if entire world problems are west problem then take all the f'ing refugees from everywhere.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530417918239965186

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530417918239965186



In Russian medias ;

"Russia will target NATO weapon shipments,they will be considered as targets".

In reality ;

"Plz stop thoz shipments".

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## ckf

A.P. Richelieu said:


> They include the millions which fled to South Korea.
> 
> "For North Korea, the Ministry estimated *1,500,000* total civilian casualties, including deaths, injuries, and *missing."*
> All civilian casualties were not a result of bombing.
> 
> So where do you get three million civilians?
> Note that the link claims a total of three million Koreans were killed on both sides and that includes soldiers.
> 
> So you are really not able to assimilate the information in your own link.


Well, at least you read it. Potentially millions of Koreans died from US carpet bombing. But you seem not to care, only care about the semantics of #'s. US carpet bomb destroyed 90% of all building in urban areas of North Korea. Millions of Koreans died due to starvation and cold. Much of North Korea grain and food storage, and housing got destroyed. Many died from hunger and cold. But you wouldn't care as long as the White American president said they were fighting the evil Chinese communist.

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> In Russian medias ;
> 
> "Russia will target NATO weapon shipments,they will be considered as targets".
> 
> In reality ;
> 
> "Plz stop thoz shipments".



They know how lethal US missiles are, because they have to use US tech to develop their own

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## SalarHaqq

Beny Karachun said:


> There is neo Nazis in Russia just as there's neo Nazis in Ukraine.



Difference is that:

* In Russia, marginal neo-Nazi elements have zero influence upon the Russian government. In Ukraine, a more massive far right current has the government under its thumb. Former president Poroshenko wanted to implement the Minsk accords, but received death threats from the neo-Nazi Azov regiment and thence Ukraine started violating international law by continuing the shelling of Donbas settlements.

* Despite ideological differences with the USSR, the Russian Federation nonetheless sees itself as an heir to Soviet anti-fascism. WW2 and the fight against National-Socialist Germany is intensively remembered and plays a central role in Russian national identity-building. This collective memory is constructed with the direct participation of state authorities. In NATO- and zionist-dominated Ukraine however, the officially promoted dominant narrative on WW2 is not anti-fascist but anti-Soviet, anti-Russian and Nazi-apologetic in nature.

* In Russia neo-Nazism does not enjoy large scale social acceptance, quite the opposite. In Ukraine however it does. This is why one will not find an any place in Russia named after Bronislav Kaminski, whereas a main shopping artery in the center of Kiev has been baptized Stepan Bandera Avenue. Millions of ordinary Ukrainians who do not adhere to Nazi ideology, do revere Bandera nonetheless. There's no equivalent for this in Russian society.

* Neo-Nazis and other far right movements avail themselves of disproportionate presence and representation within the armed forces of Ukraine. Entire brigades and regiments are directly placed under their control. And not just Azov, which is simply better known internationally: whether Pravy Sektor, Sloboda or Banderist gangs other than Azov, they all have their own separate units within the national armed forces of Ukraine. No such thing exsists in the Russian army.

* The Russian political establishment is not filled with sympathizers of the Third Reich and of local WW2 Nazi collaborators. In Ukraine however, this is very much the case. And by that includes people who aren't members to far right parties. Elected officials of the Kiev municipality were seen singing chants in praise of Bandera. The Ukrainian ambassador to Germany of all places, declared publicly on "Twitter" that he had proceeded to lay flowers at Bandera's tomb. And so on, and so forth.

In short, the impact and role of neo-Nazism in contemporary Ukraine and Russia is like apples and oranges. Those denying this are either inadequately informed, misled by NATO and zionist propaganda, or intellectual dishonest.

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## A.P. Richelieu

northeast said:


> You had not only stop them,you had also invade north korea,that is why you got kicked out of north korea.


To the detriment of North Koreans, which are amongst the poorest, most repressed of any country.
Meanwhile South Korea is a rich developed country.



ckf said:


> Well, at least you read it. Potentially millions of Koreans died from US carpet bombing. But you seem not to care, only care about the semantics of #'s. US carpet bomb destroyed 90% of all building in urban areas of North Korea. Millions of Koreans died due to starvation and cold. Much of North Korea grain and food storage, and housing got destroyed. Many died from hunger and cold. But you wouldn't care as long as the White American president said they were fighting the evil Chinese communist.


And all the blame for this lies at the powerhungry communists lead by Kim Il Sung. He is responsible for starting the war, and has ultimate responsibility for all dead Koreans or about three millions, and his Soviet and Chinese masters share the blame for the million dead.

How many would have died if he did not start the war?

You do not care about them, you care about spreading venom.

You also do not know why they are dead. How many were executed by the North Koreans themselves for protesting?
South Korea would have been a hellhole if they succeeded.


----------



## TNT

Beny Karachun said:


> There is neo Nazis in Russia just as there's neo Nazis in Ukraine. Russia allies itself with mass murdering Syrians, Chechens that just 30 years ago were beheading Russians and a bunch of African cannibals, Russia has no moral grounds here



Dont want to interrupt u guys but an Israeli talking about morality is just too much, i mean seriously dude?

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## The SC

*Ukrainian Defense Minister announces the arrival of the first batch of Harpoon coastal anti-ship missiles*​
He said Harpoon shore-to-ship missiles would be operated alongside Ukrainian Neptune missiles in the defence of the country's coast including the southern port of Odesa..

https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...s-howitzers-says-defence-minister-2022-05-28/


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

TNT said:


> Dont want to interrupt u guys but an Israeli talking about morality is just too much, i mean seriously dude?


Meanwhile Russia and Syria has killed 4-5 more civilians in Syria in 10 years, than Israel has killed Palestinians (including combatants) in 70 years, and Russia has created nearly 15 million refugees In Syria and 6-7 million refugees in Ukraine.
Russians are executing captured civilians in the street, kidnapping hundreds of thousands, if not millions.
They have destroyed most cities in Eastern Ukraine.

And you feel that criticism is unwarranted.

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## The SC

*Ukrainian Defense*: No information yet about an imminent Russian attack on Kyiv
@AlArabiya_Brk

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## A.P. Richelieu

letsrock said:


> Stop being so full of sophistry and spin. What was the busniess to be in north korea to begin with ? if entire world problems are west problem then take all the f'ing refugees from everywhere.


North Korea and China had no business invading South Korea. Both North Korea and China has agreed that the UNSC has final say on such affairs.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530636020370358273

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530553712497901568


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530479688447053824

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## The SC

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530636020370358273


This is a huge milestone in this war..Zelensky himself asked the Ukrainian armed forces to defend Severodonetsk to death..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530345393153769474
Video of the first Australian Bushmaster armored vehicle destroyed in the war


https://defense-arab.com/vb/data/video/485/485233-0848e11635da3f3c0b7ed85e477406c7.mp4


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530531875206438912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530668029780140038

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## PakFactor

The SC said:


> Video of the first Australian Bushmaster armored vehicle destroyed in the war
> 
> 
> https://defense-arab.com/vb/data/video/485/485233-0848e11635da3f3c0b7ed85e477406c7.mp4



Nice! It’s funny how west only shows and talks about Russian systems being blown.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530672353100824577

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530655940743159810

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530612200678752256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530580300329271297


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530672456226115585


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530482031339130881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530470619397103617

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530557973080186880

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530615314056065024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530667236477661184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530661324774047745

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530547878829105152


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530650576781991936

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530626498545295361

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530648575406915591


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530542505745334276

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1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530535107634896896

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530541513373007874

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1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530663803196788740


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530493567176691714

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> In Russian medias ;
> 
> "Russia will target NATO weapon shipments,they will be considered as targets".
> 
> In reality ;
> 
> "Plz stop thoz shipments".





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530541130579730433


----------



## The SC

Reflection of the counterattack of the Armed Forces of Ukraine near Avdiivka.
A quadcopter of one of the UAV units found an armored group of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which was preparing to counterattack. The coordinates were transferred to the headquarters and our artillery was connected.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530530804044013571


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530495204490235904

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530304720434257922

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530317791571677184


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530298048752017410

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530667479349006338

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530634673893826572

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530577238298599424


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530623923221676032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530618075053162499

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530614313798574080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530556055855501312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530168327171104771

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530454443476635648


Sergey Brachuk, head of the Odessa Military Administration:

Ukraine can destroy the entire Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation

"Now so many Harpoons have been handed over to us that we can sink the entire Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation. Why not?" Brachuk asked.
On Saturday, Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksiy Reznikov said that Ukraine was receiving Harpoon anti-ship missiles for defense in the Black Sea "from Danish partners with the participation of British friends."

Pentagon Denies Ukrainian Claims of ‘Plan to Destroy’ Russia’s Black Sea Fleet​


https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2022-05-20/pentagon-denies-ukrainian-claims-of-plan-to-destroy-russias-black-sea-fleet





The Russian army destroyed the stronghold of the Ukrainian armed forces near Lyman with a missile, after the strike, an ammunition explosion occurred


----------



## That Guy

gambit said:


> I was invited here back in '09. Since then, you guys ever got tired of being wrong?


Nah, I just drink my tea, and move on with my life. In the end, this is nothing more than words on the internet. Lol

Besides, if the Ukrainians actually pushed Kherson, instead of redirecting to Donbas, I have a feeling my time lines would have been correct.



SalarHaqq said:


> Difference is that:
> 
> * In Russia, marginal neo-Nazi elements have zero influence upon the Russian government. In Ukraine, a more massive far right current has the government under its thumb. Former president Poroshenko wanted to implement the Minsk accords, but received death threats from the neo-Nazi Azov regiment and thence Ukraine started violating international law by continuing the shelling of Donbas settlements.
> 
> * Despite ideological differences with the USSR, the Russian Federation nonetheless sees itself as an heir to Soviet anti-fascism. WW2 and the fight against National-Socialist Germany is intensively remembered and plays a central role in Russian national identity-building. This collective memory is constructed with the direct participation of state authorities. In NATO- and zionist-dominated Ukraine however, the officially promoted dominant narrative on WW2 is not anti-fascist but anti-Soviet, anti-Russian and Nazi-apologetic in nature.
> 
> * In Russia neo-Nazism does not enjoy large scale social acceptance, quite the opposite. In Ukraine however it does. This is why one will not find an any place in Russia named after Bronislav Kaminski, whereas a main shopping artery in the center of Kiev has been baptized Stepan Bandera Avenue. Millions of ordinary Ukrainians who do not adhere to Nazi ideology, do revere Bandera nonetheless. There's no equivalent for this in Russian society.
> 
> * Neo-Nazis and other far right movements avail themselves of disproportionate presence and representation within the armed forces of Ukraine. Entire brigades and regiments are directly placed under their control. And not just Azov, which is simply better known internationally: whether Pravy Sektor, Sloboda or Banderist gangs other than Azov, they all have their own separate units within the national armed forces of Ukraine. No such thing exsists in the Russian army.
> 
> * The Russian political establishment is not filled with sympathizers of the Third Reich and of local WW2 Nazi collaborators. In Ukraine however, this is very much the case. And by that includes people who aren't members to far right parties. Elected officials of the Kiev municipality were seen singing chants in praise of Bandera. The Ukrainian ambassador to Germany of all places, declared publicly on "Twitter" that he had proceeded to lay flowers at Bandera's tomb. And so on, and so forth.
> 
> In short, the impact and role of neo-Nazism in contemporary Ukraine and Russia is like apples and oranges. Those denying this are either inadequately informed, misled by NATO and zionist propaganda, or intellectual dishonest.


And you have the nerve to say that you don't spread misinformation. This is blatantly wrong, and you know it.

Also, Wagner Group, which works directly for Putin was literally founded by a fascist neo-nazi.

You wanna talk about intellectual dishonesty, stop spreading blatantly false Kremlin propaganda.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530612013013024768


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530565461724758017

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530598838544875523
Russian Airborne publishes footage of one of its battles against the Ukrainian army


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530406449532260353

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530358650669350913

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ckf

A.P. Richelieu said:


> To the detriment of North Koreans, which are amongst the poorest, most repressed of any country.
> Meanwhile South Korea is a rich developed country.
> 
> 
> And all the blame for this lies at the powerhungry communists lead by Kim Il Sung. He is responsible for starting the war, and has ultimate responsibility for all dead Koreans or about three millions, and his Soviet and Chinese masters share the blame for the million dead.
> 
> How many would have died if he did not start the war?
> 
> You do not care about them, you care about spreading venom.
> 
> You also do not know why they are dead. How many were executed by the North Koreans themselves for protesting?
> South Korea would have been a hellhole if they succeeded.


You're projecting history. The point is atrocities committed by US, which is essentially genocide against North Korea. We can't go back in history, and play the if game. Who knows how the world would of turn out under a united Korea if US never get involved in the Korean War.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530445066157838337

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530452729012838401

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530662761499435011


----------



## FuturePAF

jhungary said:


> Probably not.....
> 
> The current Ground Offensive in the East is not something of an Army with numeric superiority should do. You never get into a grinding warfare while fighting a mobile warfare at the same time when you outnumber your enemy, That is a good way you can pinned and hammered.
> 
> If I was the Russian overall commander, I would probably by-pass Sievierodonetsk and break out from Popasna and aim for a speed advance toward Kramatorsk, at this rate, Ukrainian is grinding away the Russian numeric advantage. By the way, that is what the UKrainian is doing to the Russian at the moment, they did not reinforce Sievierodonetsk, they shored up the opposite bank, and using the reinforcement to advance North of Kharkiv. Seems like Ukrainian are not going to defend Sievierodonetsk and pull back probably after some rear guard action.
> 
> 
> Didn't the Russian MOD guy come out and say they wanted to encircle the entire Donbas region and established a land corridor toward Transnistria back in April?


The Belarusian leader leaked the Transnistria thing on March 1st if I remember correctly. It was in the New York post on March 1st.

I hope your right about the Ukrainians.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530764856420446209

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
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## Nuclear Clown

_*"Now we have been given so many 'Harpoons' that we can sink the entire Black Sea Fleet of the #Russian Federation," *said Sergei Bratchuk_
WOW!!!









F-22Raptor said:


> They know how lethal US missiles are, because they have to use US tech to develop their own


Which ones?
I'm a bit dubious on this one


ckf said:


> Well, at least you read it. Potentially millions of Koreans died from US carpet bombing. But you seem not to care, only care about the semantics of #'s. US carpet bomb destroyed 90% of all building in urban areas of North Korea. Millions of Koreans died due to starvation and cold. Much of North Korea grain and food storage, and housing got destroyed. Many died from hunger and cold. But you wouldn't care as long as the White American president said they were fighting the evil Chinese communist.


So you mean the today, the Russia of 2022, does exactly to little Ukraine which is fighting alone what Murica did to fight against North Korea + Commie China + USSR:
Russia simply razes Ukrainian cities, and you use the Korea war abuses in days where targetting was very approximative, as an excuse to condone Russia deliberate crimes when they themselves brag about their SVP-24 targetting system which allows aircraft with dumb bombs to be as accurate as if they were using the 1st gen of laser guided bombs? So this implies that unlike the Muricans having no other choice than doing area targetting 70 years ago while Russia deliberately carpet bombs Ukraine...
QED !!!!


StraightEdge said:


> Reuters on Twitter: "Russian gains in Ukraine's east indicate a shift in momentum in the war https://t.co/BbqMKDrbKq https://t.co/sUwg8pS6Yz" / Twitter


I'm dubious on Reuters journos understanding how Pyrrhic these victories are. And... of the 36 stratagems, fleeing is the best... Just dig this: in Vietnam, USA had 5000 fatalities a year. In Ukraine, Russia has 10,000 dead Orcs a month... Moreover, they are beating the world record of turret-tossing and generals' busting...


northeast said:


> CCP's approval rating is higher than 90%, you are also welcomed to come to have a try to overthrow it.


C'mon, 90% rating in a totalitarian and Orwellian state 
Who cares?


northeast said:


> ut those are not suggestions. You want to free tibet? Come and fight against the PLA, you are welcomed to have a try.


Be careful what you wish for, it may happen... The day people of my kind start to fight PLA is the first day of the end of PRC. Any way, Xi has put you on the best path to annihilation.









PakFactor said:


> Nice! It’s funny how west only shows and talks about Russian systems being blown.


Because :
1. They're the bad guys and it's always cool to watch instant karma getting the bad guys.




2. They're participating the world turret throwing contest 




3. They won the last world tank biathlon, now they win the turret tossing contest and the world war crimes contest




4. Because, just like the Pacific Salmon, the fate of the Russian tank after its migration is tragic,




moreover, it's an endangered specie, it's reproduction at UVZ and ChVZ has stopped and is likely to never resume : Zoos don't want Russian tanks any more, only scrapyards are interested, add to this, adoption has been made difficult : Russia was already delivering monkey-models and now wants to be paid in an useless monkey-money.
5. There is nothing to celebrate when a Bushmaster gets destroyed : it can't hunt for Orcs any more and...


----------



## Nuclear Clown

ckf said:


> You're projecting history. The point is atrocities committed by US, which is essentially genocide against North Korea. We can't go back in history, and play the if game. Who knows how the world would of turn out under a united Korea if US never get involved in the Korean War.


You know, Mao Zedong killed 80-100 millions Chineses, and its the CCP that said this...
When it became clear that MacArthur was going too far in Korea, he was fired... Nobody is puttin' a stop to Putin's mass slaughters!
Any way, we can't rewrite history, but, Putin is into committing a genocide and thus SHALL BE STOPPED BY ANY MEAN!!!


----------



## zartosht

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529833999102787586


These ukie refugees have overstayed their propaganda welcome. people in the west are struggling with high inflation and energy eating into their purchasing power, and literally making them poorer by the day.

They can no longer justify using taxpayers money to hand out freebies for propaganda. The West stronk resolve is starting to crack....



Raffie said:


> _*"Now we have been given so many 'Harpoons' that we can sink the entire Black Sea Fleet of the #Russian Federation," *said Sergei Bratchuk_
> WOW!!!
> 
> View attachment 848767
> 
> 
> 
> Which ones?
> I'm a bit dubious on this one
> 
> So you mean the today, the Russia of 2022, does exactly to little Ukraine which is fighting alone what Murica did to fight against North Korea + Commie China + USSR:
> Russia simply razes Ukrainian cities, and you use the Korea war abuses in days where targetting was very approximative, as an excuse to condone Russia deliberate crimes when they themselves brag about their SVP-24 targetting system which allows aircraft with dumb bombs to be as accurate as if they were using the 1st gen of laser guided bombs? So this implies that unlike the Muricans having no other choice than doing area targetting 70 years ago while Russia deliberately carpet bombs Ukraine...
> QED !!!!
> 
> I'm dubious on Reuters journos understanding how Pyrrhic these victories are. And... of the 36 stratagems, fleeing is the best... Just dig this: in Vietnam, USA had 5000 fatalities a year. In Ukraine, Russia has 10,000 dead Orcs a month... Moreover, they are beating the world record of turret-tossing and generals' busting...
> 
> C'mon, 90% rating in a totalitarian and Orwellian state
> Who cares?
> 
> Be careful what you wish for, it may happen... The day people of my kind start to fight PLA is the first day of the end of PRC. Any way, Xi has put you on the best path to annihilation.
> View attachment 848816
> View attachment 848817
> 
> 
> Because :
> 1. They're the bad guys and it's always cool to watch instant karma getting the bad guys.
> View attachment 848861
> 
> 2. They're participating the world turret throwing contest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. They won the last world tank biathlon, now they win the turret tossing contest and the world war crimes contest
> View attachment 848863
> 
> 4. Because, just like the Pacific Salmon, the fate of the Russian tank after its migration is tragic,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> moreover, it's an endangered specie, it's reproduction at UVZ and ChVZ has stopped and is likely to never resume : Zoos don't want Russian tanks any more, only scrapyards are interested, add to this, adoption has been made difficult : Russia was already delivering monkey-models and now wants to be paid in an useless monkey-money.
> 5. There is nothing to celebrate when a Bushmaster gets destroyed : it can't hunt for Orcs any more and...



How many times are you going to spam the same pictures repeatedly?? being obnoxious and annoying is not a good way to convince people of your views....

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## A.P. Richelieu

ckf said:


> You're projecting history. The point is atrocities committed by US, which is essentially genocide against North Korea. We can't go back in history, and play the if game. Who knows how the world would of turn out under a united Korea if US never get involved in the Korean War.


The point is that the real atrocities were committed by the North Koreans. They were the ones with lists of which civilians should be liquidated.
Meanwhile you spout accussations without credibility and no sources,
You can tell how a united Korea would look like by the mentality of the North Korean leaders.


----------



## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530764856420446209


----------



## northeast

Raffie said:


> You know, Mao Zedong killed 80-100 millions Chineses, and its the CCP that said this...
> When it became clear that MacArthur was going too far in Korea, he was fired... Nobody is puttin' a stop to Putin's mass slaughters!
> Any way, we can't rewrite history, but, Putin is into committing a genocide and thus SHALL BE STOPPED BY ANY MEAN!!!


Now, let's talk about 10 million Americans or 20 million europeans killed by your politicians in covid19 pandemic in these 3 years instead of what happened in china 60 years ago. Oh, I forgot you cares about chinese people so much more than your US papas and european mamas.

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## A.P. Richelieu

northeast said:


> Now, let's talk about 10 million Americans or 20 million europeans killed by your politicians in covid19 pandemic in these 3 years instead of what happened in china 60 years ago. Oh, I forgot you cares about chinese people so much more than your US papas and european mamas.


So how do you divide the 6,31 M CoVid-19 deaths worldwide in this way?
Is there a 10x multiplication factor allowed to all Chinese Keyboard Warriors?
And the CoVid-19 originated in China, according to most sources.








Coronavirus Death Toll and Trends - Worldometer


Updated total and statistics, graphs and charts tracking the total number of deaths, deaths per day, and death by country from the Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) originating from Wuhan, China




www.worldometers.info


----------



## jhungary

FuturePAF said:


> The Belarusian leader leaked the Transnistria thing on March 1st if I remember correctly. It was in the New York post on March 1st.
> 
> I hope your right about the Ukrainians.


Nah, it is not the Belarusian dude. Because I remember I was watching that Russian guy press conference in Ukraine (the Belarussian president remarks made before I left for Ukraine) I just don't remember whether it was Soigu or that guy who usually come out to do the press conference (See the pic) or some Duma leader. It's either one of the 3.


----------



## northeast

northeast said:


> Now, let's talk about 10 million Americans or 20 million europeans killed by your politicians in covid19 pandemic in these 3 years instead of what happened in china 60 years ago. Oh, I forgot you cares about chinese people so much more than your US papas and european mamas.


Simple ,big mouth like the one I replied to.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530843489507876866
Seems like the Russians are again struggling to advance on the Popasna front (just like in the Izyum axis) after an initial "breakthrough".


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530785920210837505


----------



## Bengal71

zartosht said:


> These ukie refugees have overstayed their propaganda welcome. people in the west are struggling with high inflation and energy eating into their purchasing power, and literally making them poorer by the day.
> 
> They can no longer justify using taxpayers money to hand out freebies for propaganda. The West stronk resolve is starting to crack....
> 
> 
> 
> How many times are you going to spam the same pictures repeatedly?? being obnoxious and annoying is not a good way to convince people of your views....



I have used the ignore button. Use it liberally.

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## MeFishToo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530672456226115585


Nice try. Severodonesk is not captured by the russians, and the fighting “near” Slavjansk, actually battles south of Lyman, is a completely different frontline. You just reposted a BS story.



The SC said:


> Reflection of the counterattack of the Armed Forces of Ukraine near Avdiivka.
> A quadcopter of one of the UAV units found an armored group of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which was preparing to counterattack. The coordinates were transferred to the headquarters and our artillery was connected.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530530804044013571


Not exactly a russian succes. They made some holes in a field. Seems to me the russians target a 100x100 m square and hope for the best. No wonder they flatten entire villages before advancing.


----------



## Viet

wahhab0202 said:


> That has been said many times in the past, nothing is true. During the 2 weeks of invasion I had an imagination that Russia won't be last in Ukraine for another 2-3 weeks thanks to the Ukraine's massive propaganda war. Now I knew I was wrong. Not only Russia survive the war but they are actually thrive.


You fear Ukraine propaganda will bring down Russia army? You imply Russia propaganda sucks despite Putin paying huge sums for dumb online trollers we seeing here?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530835188607029248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530832372727521280

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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530610840868638726

 I think you understand my heartfelt reply in Twitter

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## jamahir

dBSPL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530196676211785736



The same tweeter :

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530313855443902464


----------



## jamahir

DF41 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530610840868638726
> 
> I think you understand my heartfelt reply in Twitter
> 
> View attachment 848918



@Apollon @F-22Raptor @Vergennes @Raffie @A.P. Richelieu @Viet, this is your heroine ?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530828710953336834

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530828712584826880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530828714661003264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530828716410130432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530828718981120001

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530828721522987008

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530828723263512582

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530828725822136320

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530828727520837632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530828729219436544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530828731417239552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530828733141090304

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530828734915280896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530828737029226496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530828739201880066

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530828741772992514

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530828743832440832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530858583222587392

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530897613742022657


----------



## F-22Raptor

The Russians are now stalled on the Popasna front, and encirclement of Severodonetsk is looking unlikely at this point.

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## FairAndUnbiased

A.P. Richelieu said:


> To the detriment of North Koreans, which are amongst the poorest, most repressed of any country.
> Meanwhile South Korea is a rich developed country.
> 
> 
> And all the blame for this lies at the powerhungry communists lead by Kim Il Sung. He is responsible for starting the war, and has ultimate responsibility for all dead Koreans or about three millions, and his Soviet and Chinese masters share the blame for the million dead.
> 
> How many would have died if he did not start the war?
> 
> You do not care about them, you care about spreading venom.
> 
> You also do not know why they are dead. How many were executed by the North Koreans themselves for protesting?
> South Korea would have been a hellhole if they succeeded.


North Korea invaded because South Korea engaged in mass executions of protestors in 10000s-100000s only a few years after South Korean independence. This began division of the country which was originally going to be united after decades of Imperial Japanese occupation.









United Nations Temporary Commission on Korea - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org










Autumn Uprising of 1946 - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org













Yeosu–Suncheon rebellion - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org













Jeju uprising - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





This is the same justification to reunify Ukraine with Donbass after Russian occupation. Ukraine would absolutely be justified in striking back against Russia if Russia was executing 10000-100000 people are a time, then Donbass voted to join Russian Federation.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530851569847115776

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## Viet

FairAndUnbiased said:


> North Korea invaded because South Korea engaged in mass executions of protestors in 10000s-100000s only a few years after South Korean independence. This began division of the country which was originally going to be united after decades of Imperial Japanese occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations Temporary Commission on Korea - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Autumn Uprising of 1946 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeosu–Suncheon rebellion - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeju uprising - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the same justification to reunify Ukraine with Donbass after Russian occupation. Ukraine would absolutely be justified in striking back against Russia if Russia was executing 10000-100000 people are a time, then Donbass voted to join Russian Federation.


By your logic communist China can annex Chinatown in Manila. I am pretty sure 100 percent of chinese speaking Philippino want to be part of China. Fifth columns everywhere. What’s about Turk people in China? Can they join Turkey? What’s the Muslim population?

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## FairAndUnbiased

Viet said:


> By your logic communist China can annex Chinatown in Manila. I am pretty sure 100 percent of chinese speaking Philippino want to be part of China. Fifth columns everywhere. What’s about Turk people in China? Can they join Turkey? What’s the Muslim population?


No that's not the logic. The logic is that you can't execute 100000 people then claim to hold fair elections.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530923694612152321

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## Viet

FairAndUnbiased said:


> No that's not the logic. The logic is that you can't execute 100000 people then claim to hold fair elections.


100k? Why not 100m?
Terrible
Where do you get the number?
People say you send Muslims to intern camps. Any resistance will be met by brutal chinese police. What is your response? When will China hold fair elections?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530912965150420992


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530851569847115776





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530912965150420992


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

MeFishToo said:


> Nice try. Severodonesk is not captured by the russians, and the fighting “near” Slavjansk, actually battles south of Lyman, is a completely different frontline. You just reposted a BS story.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530634673893826572

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The West media told us Russia is running out of tanks. Are they?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530906558627995654

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530904647174610945
Ukrainins outside Nikolayev picked the wrong building to hide in


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530944415690280970

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## beast89

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530912965150420992
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530912965150420992


USA will fight Russia til the last Ukrainian. Thoughts and prayers

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530904647174610945



More of your nonsense.

This is not a ghost UAV , but what remains from a switchblades 300 , probably after the explosion.

~


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

FairAndUnbiased said:


> North Korea invaded because South Korea engaged in mass executions of protestors in 10000s-100000s only a few years after South Korean independence. This began division of the country which was originally going to be united after decades of Imperial Japanese occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations Temporary Commission on Korea - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Autumn Uprising of 1946 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeosu–Suncheon rebellion - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeju uprising - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the same justification to reunify Ukraine with Donbass after Russian occupation. Ukraine would absolutely be justified in striking back against Russia if Russia was executing 10000-100000 people are a time, then Donbass voted to join Russian Federation.


North Korea invaded South Korea because they could not accept that Koreans could choose their own government.
There were several communist uprisings in South Korea where anti-communists were executed, and the South Korean responded by executing communists.
The North Korean invasion resulted in more anti-communists civilians being executed.
North Korea can hardly claim that that their invasion had a humanitarian background.

Russia is however worse, since they appear to execute civilians without even a political motivation.
The executions appear to happen because they can.
I.E: pure evil.

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The West media told us Russia is running out of tanks. Are they?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530906558627995654
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530904647174610945
> Ukrainins outside Nikolayev picked the wrong building to hide in
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530944415690280970




That’s a Switchblade 300 that has already attacked its target. It jettisons the rear of the drone after attack. 

Stop spreading Russian propaganda

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530941596539031552


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530885263660048384


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530941596539031552



This is just not true. Fresh Ukrainian reserves have entered the front and is nowhere near collapsing.

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## SalarHaqq

That Guy said:


> And you have the nerve to say that you don't spread misinformation. This is blatantly wrong,



No, it's not.



That Guy said:


> and you know it.



So you have the capacity to read minds?

What I posted is entirely factual. That's all I know, and you should try to look up these facts if you aren't acquainted with them.



That Guy said:


> Also, Wagner Group, which works directly for Putin was literally founded by a fascist neo-nazi.



Wagner Group is not part of the national Russian army, it's a private security firm.

If you had actually read my comment correctly, you'd notice how I focused on public military institutions rather than private companies because, well, a state happens to be in charge of the former and not of the latter. As such, the fact that actual state institutions - read entire units of the national armed forces of Ukraine are fully in the hands of neo-Nazi grouplets, directly reflects the Kiev regime's orientation. And, there's no equivalent for this in Russia.

Having some private security company in the country which may include far right extremists in its ranks is one thing, allowing neo-Nazis to form their own regiments within the nation's official armed forces a completely different one. No serious analyst will put these two cases in the same basket.

Furthermore, the stories published in the west about Wagner itself have been questioned by independent (non-Russian) investigative media. It's far from established that this far right person, Utkin, was the actual founder of Wagner. As for working directly for Putin, that too is essentially a claim by western media. But in other news, private security firms tend to work for the government as external contractors (i.e. their staff won't be selected by the government), there's nothing out of the ordinary about that.



That Guy said:


> stop spreading blatantly false Kremlin propaganda.



These sorts of invectives won't hector me into silence. The points I made are yet to be proven wrong, so much for "blatantly false". In that sense, I'll keep debunking anti-Russian propaganda whenever I get the opportunity. 

To even suggest that the Russian government is in any way comparable to its Ukrainian counterpart in terms of adopting neo-Nazi postures either smacks of a lack of knowledge or of plain intellectual dishonesty.

Let's not even mention the multiple, obvious distortions of reality and brazen untruths posted here in a recurrent manner by certain NATO and zionist apologists, but of course we're yet to see you find fault with those.

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## Nuclear Clown

zartosht said:


> These ukie refugees have overstayed their propaganda welcome. people in the west are struggling with high inflation and energy eating into their purchasing power, and literally making them poorer by the day.


Do you live in the EU? You don't know!!!
We're fully committed at backing Ukraine and are scandalized with those dragging feet on arms supplies or by Russian Trojan horses of the likes of Orban... 
BTW, crowd fundings to buy advanced weapons systems for Ukraine are more successful than the Telethon... 

Any way, there's a very simple thing to do to stop this war : just announce that, let's say in 2 weeks from now, Ukraine becomes member of NATO, that a no flyzone will be imposed and standoff weapons will be retaliated proportionally => 4 for 1 : 1 cruse missile for Kyiv, 4 for Moscow, 1 for Odesa, 4 on on Leningrad... Then, let them 72 hours before the A-10s, EC-665s, AH-64s, AC-130, MQ-9, etc come : this is a *No Drive Zone* : Just look at the 1991 Highway of Death if you don't know what a NDZ is...
NATO packs about 65% of world's firepower, if Putin wants to fight NATO, he knows what he's in for, and we have huge nuclear arsenals too

*ENERGY IS NOT AN ISSUE !!! FRANKLY, WE WERE JUST USED TO OVER CONSUMPTION! *
You'd be shocked at how we're few affected by the economics : this winter, I spent not even the half at warming the house as in 2021, and in 2021, it was about the half of 2020, and it was decided prior to the conflict as Russia had always risen gas prices in the last two years : reinforcing isolation, reducing the temperature, actually, the only gas I used was for cooking and for water warming. Heating was provided by electricity where we have a 15,268 MWth NPP and a large wind turbines farm. 
Moreover, the winter was mild and the summer started 7 weeks sooner than the usual date, now half of the NPP is stopped, we're mounting the new gen of Siemens turbines with 60% efficiency, instead of 35% for previous generation. This means next winter, instead of a 5200MWe cruise output and 5448MWe in case of surge, the NPP will be able to provide 9,160.8 MWe with 4 reactors of 3.817 GWth as near all of our 58 NPPs
To give you an idea, the typical Soviet-era NPP is a 6x 3.2GWth = 19.2GWth. Even upgraded with 3rd gen western turbines like the one Putler's Waffen-ZZ shelled near Zaporizhzhia, the output is only 6.72GWe max...

I wish ecologist useful-idiots didn't managed to have the Superphénix fast breeder closed! Fast-Breeder make nuclear energy a renewable one. You burn nuclear waste and neutron-activation produce more nuclear fuel than you burn... Guess who funds anti-nuclears? Oil and gas producing countries.

Avoid freeways with tolls, drive at 90km/h instead of 130km/h on freeway and 110km/h on motor-roads, spare on car use, moreover, these damn Renault small cars burn near nothing and are near maintenance free

*FOOD IS NOT EXPENSIVE IN HARD DISCOUNT SUPERMARKETS.*
Moreover, they sell near only de-branded stuff, get your usual Gervais, Danone or whatever big brand at half price or less : they all overproduce, so, the overproducing is simply sold to hard discount with another brand on the sticker!
EU's CAP (common agricultural policy) was on deliberate reduced output for years since overproduction was driving prices too low for peasants to make a living.
Therefore, CAP has been reboosted, next harvest will be gigantic. 
So, just like for energy, all you have to do is to revise your consummers' habits, you switch from the Auchan super-mall to smaller Super-U, Lidl, Aldi then you're OK... Any way, they have exactly the same products with the house's brand.
BTW, we produce more wheat than Ukraine... Make no mistake, Ukraine only produces 6.5% of wheat, we produce about 8.5% and ruZZia about 16%, they're just way more into export while our wheat barely doesn't goes out of the EU market. Same stuff for the US wheat : their Mid-West output is gigantic; but it's for domestic production... 

*Don't you know that both EU and USA have gigantic intensive agriculture? 
It's not here that your beloved Putin's deliberately engineering a food crisis will hurt! He's into starving the 3rd world to blame it on the sanctions on ruZZia when he's the one blocking Ukraine's wheat exports : Ukraine's output is too large to be transported by road/train only. Boats are needed an ruSSian navy attacks them.*

IF YOU STARVE, GO AFTER PUTIN AND HIS CRONIES, WE CAN'T HELP, except at bringing you better weapons than the ruSSian ones

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## StraightEdge

Western media are getting extremely desperate -   








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530706932750856193

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## Nuclear Clown

SalarHaqq said:


> Wagner Group is not part of the national Russian army, it's a private security firm.


Mercenaries are not here for security, it's the contrary... 
And ex-KGB dudes and ex-Spetsznaz operating from a country where PMCs (private military companies) are banned by the law... 
Well, it's just like saying that CIA's Green Berets are not part of the US-Army


----------



## That Guy

SalarHaqq said:


> No, it's not.
> 
> 
> 
> So you have the capacity to read minds?
> 
> What I posted is entirely factual. That's all I know, and you should try to look up these facts if you aren't acquainted with them.
> 
> 
> 
> Wagner Group is not part of the national Russian army, it's a private security firm.
> 
> If you had actually read my comment correctly, you'd notice that I focused on public military institutions rather than private companies because, well, a state happens to be in charge of the former and not of the latter. As such, the fact that actual state institutions - read entire units of the national armed forces in Ukraine are fully in the hands of neo-Nazi grouplets, directly reflects the Kiev regime's orientation. And, there's no equivalent for this in Russia.
> 
> Having some private security company in the country which may include far right extremists in its ranks is one thing, allowing neo-Nazis to form their own regiments within the nation's official armed forces a completely different one. No serious analyst will put these two cases in the same basket.
> 
> Furthermore, the stories published in the west about Wagner itself have been questioned by independent (non-Russian) investigative media. It's far from established that this far right person, Utkin, was the actual founder of Wagner. As for working directly for Putin, that too is essentially a claim by western media. But in other news, private security firms tend to work for the government as external contractors (i.e. their staff won't be chosen by the government), there's nothing out of the ordinary about that.
> 
> 
> 
> Rest assured I shall not be hectored into silence. The points I made are yet to be proven wrong, so much for "blatantly false". In that sense, I will keep debunking this sort of anti-Russian propaganda. To even suggest that the Russian government is in any way comparable to its Ukrainian counterpart in terms of adopting neo-Nazi postures either smacks of a lack of knowledge or of plain intellectual dishonesty.
> 
> Let's not even mention the multiple, obvious distortions of reality and brazen untruths posted here in a recurrent manner by certain NATO and zionist apologists, but of course we're yet to see you find fault with those.


ItS a PrIVatE SecUriTY FirM.

Do you even know how modern PMCs even work? Or what the fact that Putin hired them directed even means?

You have been proven wrong multiple times in this thread. You vowing to not remain silent is not an indication of oppression, but rather a clear sign that you are just desperate to defend Putin and his war crimes.

It's quite pathetic.

ZioNists and NaTO

Screw off with this bullshit argument. If this is the level of commentary that you're posting, then you deserve to be ridiculed.

No one takes you seriously for a reason.



StraightEdge said:


> Western media are getting extremely desperate -
> 
> View attachment 849009
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530706932750856193


Not western media.

The Sun is a tabloid, no other reputable western media outlet is reporting this.

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## Nuclear Clown

StraightEdge said:


> Western media are getting extremely desperate -
> 
> View attachment 849009
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530706932750856193


C'mon, 'The Sun' is a tabloid! You must be mindsick if you take them seriously


----------



## Abid123

Raffie said:


> Do you live in the EU? You don't know!!!
> We're fully committed at backing Ukraine and are scandalized with those dragging feet on arms supplies or by Russian Trojan horses of the likes of Orban...
> BTW, crowd fundings to buy advanced weapons systems for Ukraine are more successful than the Telethon...
> 
> Any way, there's a very simple thing to do to stop this war : just announce that, let's say in 2 weeks from now, Ukraine becomes member of NATO, that a no flyzone will be imposed and standoff weapons will be retaliated proportionally => 4 for 1 : 1 cruse missile for Kyiv, 4 for Moscow, 1 for Odesa, 4 on on Leningrad... Then, let them 72 hours before the A-10s, EC-665s, AH-64s, AC-130, MQ-9, etc come : this is a *No Drive Zone* : Just look at the 1991 Highway of Death if you don't know what a NDZ is...
> NATO packs about 65% of world's firepower, if Putin wants to fight NATO, he knows what he's in for, and we have huge nuclear arsenals too
> 
> *ENERGY IS NOT AN ISSUE !!! FRANKLY, WE WERE JUST USED TO OVER CONSUMPTION! *
> You'd be shocked at how we're few affected by the economics : this winter, I spent not even the half at warming the house as in 2021, and in 2021, it was about the half of 2020, and it was decided prior to the conflict as Russia had always risen gas prices in the last two years : reinforcing isolation, reducing the temperature, actually, the only gas I used was for cooking and for water warming. Heating was provided by electricity where we have a 15,268 MWth NPP and a large wind turbines farm.
> Moreover, the winter was mild and the summer started 7 weeks sooner than the usual date, now half of the NPP is stopped, we're mounting the new gen of Siemens turbines with 60% efficiency, instead of 35% for previous generation. This means next winter, instead of a 5200MWe cruise output and 5448MWe in case of surge, the NPP will be able to provide 9,160.8 MWe with 4 reactors of 3.817 GWth as near all of our 58 NPPs
> To give you an idea, the typical Soviet-era NPP is a 6x 3.2GWth = 19.2GWth. Even upgraded with 3rd gen western turbines like the one Putler's Waffen-ZZ shelled near Zaporizhzhia, the output is only 6.72GWe max...
> 
> I wish ecologist useful-idiots didn't managed to have the Superphénix fast breeder closed! Fast-Breeder make nuclear energy a renewable one. You burn nuclear waste and neutron-activation produce more nuclear fuel than you burn... Guess who funds anti-nuclears? Oil and gas producing countries.
> 
> Avoid freeways with tolls, drive at 90km/h instead of 130km/h on freeway and 110km/h on motor-roads, spare on car use, moreover, these damn Renault small cars burn near nothing and are near maintenance free
> 
> *FOOD IS NOT EXPENSIVE IN HARD DISCOUNT SUPERMARKETS.*
> Moreover, they sell near only de-branded stuff, get your usual Gervais, Danone or whatever big brand at half price or less : they all overproduce, so, the overproducing is simply sold to hard discount with another brand on the sticker!
> EU's CAP (common agricultural policy) was on deliberate reduced output for years since overproduction was driving prices too low for peasants to make a living.
> Therefore, CAP has been reboosted, next harvest will be gigantic.
> So, just like for energy, all you have to do is to revise your consummers' habits, you switch from the Auchan super-mall to smaller Super-U, Lidl, Aldi then you're OK... Any way, they have exactly the same products with the house's brand.
> BTW, we produce more wheat than Ukraine... Make no mistake, Ukraine only produces 6.5% of wheat, we produce about 8.5% and ruZZia about 16%, they're just way more into export while our wheat barely doesn't goes out of the EU market. Same stuff for the US wheat : their Mid-West output is gigantic; but it's for domestic production...
> 
> *Don't you know that both EU and USA have gigantic intensive agriculture?
> It's not here that your beloved Putin's deliberately engineering a food crisis will hurt! He's into starving the 3rd world to blame it on the sanctions on ruZZia when he's the one blocking Ukraine's wheat exports : Ukraine's output is too large to be transported by road/train only. Boats are needed an ruSSian navy attacks them.*
> 
> IF YOU STARVE, GO AFTER PUTIN AND HIS CRONIES, WE CAN'T HELP, except at bringing you better weapons than the ruSSian ones








Good french doggy. Your american masters are proud of you.

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## Beny Karachun

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/v04vhm


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/v0a4gi


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/v09lox



__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/v06d25


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/uzheim

The amount of Russian tanks blown up is just huge


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

sammuel said:


> More of your nonsense.
> 
> This is not a ghost UAV , but what remains from a switchblades 300 , probably after the explosion.
> 
> ~



Ghost UAV and Switchblades 3000 look alike to each other. But it was shot down any way and that is what counts at the end. Good riddance! Now, go and cry about it.









__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530960656874217472

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## Nuclear Clown

FairAndUnbiased said:


> North Korea invaded because South Korea engaged in mass executions of protestors in 10000s-100000s only a few years after South Korean independence. This began division of the country which was originally going to be united after decades of Imperial Japanese occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations Temporary Commission on Korea - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Autumn Uprising of 1946 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeosu–Suncheon rebellion - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeju uprising - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the same justification to reunify Ukraine with Donbass after Russian occupation. Ukraine would absolutely be justified in striking back against Russia if Russia was executing 10000-100000 people are a time, then Donbass voted to join Russian Federation.


Yeah, yeah, Stalin and Mao who ordered the invasion were so keen on the human rights
Do you know that the Soviet Union was also the #1 fundraiser for antinuclear protests in the West while, in 1986, they owned 45,000 nuclear warheads ????


----------



## That Guy

Dual Wielder said:


> off topic (Will delete later)
> 
> @That Guy
> 
> I don't you see posting in the Pakistan Siasat section, yet Your quite active here, given the country has gone to the dogs and is in turmoil.. I'd like to get your prospective.. any comments?


I've mostly stuck to reddit when it comes to Pakistani siasat, at least when it comes to online.

The rest of the time is debating people in real life.

Since this is off topic, all I'll say is that I used to be very active, but have since given up. Since the new regime has taken away my voting rights, I no longer care. I'm now in the long process of getting my family out of Pakistan.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530715153116839937

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## That Guy

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530715153116839937


The ISW is saying the cost to gain ratio isn't worth it, and they're right. The cost has been far too great in donbas, and if you take all of Ukraine into account, even if Russia take all of Ukraine through some black magic type shit, they'll not recover for decades upon decades.

Russia's status as a major regional power and hopes of becoming a global power are now gone.

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## Nuclear Clown

FairAndUnbiased said:


> No that's not the logic. The logic is that you can't execute 100000 people then claim to hold fair elections.


Well, you're right : there were no elections after PLA did the Tien An Men massacre, rolling their tanks on unarmed protesters... No Saint Javelin then...


----------



## Nuclear Clown

Abid123 said:


> View attachment 849014
> 
> 
> Good french doggy. Your american masters are proud of you.


ROFL, the Yankees, just like the Brits, are OUR creatures, even if they don't want to acknowledge, these are facts!
Why d'you think we lecture them the way we do and don't end bombed?
I agree they're rather bad children who don't listen to daddy, so they repeat errors we did before them, but you know, in the end, USA will take the right decision, they will just try all the wrong ones before doing so while they would have spared themselves these issues by listening to daddy....
Do you know at what you recognise good dogs to the USA?
US-made jet fighters ownership!!!








And, if you're the lapdog to our creatures... 
You're an underdog...

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## SalarHaqq

That Guy said:


> You have been proven wrong multiple times in this thread.



Not really, no.

Other than hollow ad hominems, you failed to produce anything in response to my comments. Let alone anything tangible and valuable. Congrats.



That Guy said:


> You vowing to not remain silent is not an indication of oppression, but rather a clear sign that you are just desperate to defend Putin and his war crimes.



In fact you claiming multiple times "not to be interested" in conversing with me, but then reappearing again and again with a fresh load of uninventive personal attacks is evidence that my "desperate defense of Putin" is far from ineffectual, and far from leaving you unmoved.



That Guy said:


> Screw off with this bullshit argument. If this is the level of commentary that you're posting, then you deserve to be ridiculed.



"Screw off with this bullshit argument"... this is your counter?

Wow, what classy, thought out, substantiated argumentation!



That Guy said:


> No one takes you seriously for a reason.



Keep telling yourself that.

In the meantime, I'd suggest to go slow on predictions. Social scientists don't really like to indulge in them for a reason.

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Ghost UAV and Switchblades 3000 look alike to each other.



More nonsense .

No they don't " look alike ". The truth is you have never seen a Ghost UAV , nor do you have any idea what it looks like.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530600246941782019

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530968579453210624

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## ckf

Viet said:


> By your logic communist China can annex Chinatown in Manila. I am pretty sure 100 percent of chinese speaking Philippino want to be part of China. Fifth columns everywhere. What’s about Turk people in China? Can they join Turkey? What’s the Muslim population?





Viet said:


> 100k? Why not 100m?
> Terrible
> Where do you get the number?
> People say you send Muslims to intern camps. Any resistance will be met by brutal chinese police. What is your response? When will China hold fair elections?


I dare you to define "free and fair" election....


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

sammuel said:


> More nonsense .
> 
> No they don't " look alike ". The truth is you have never seen a Ghost UAV , nor do you have any idea what it looks like.




"*The Phoenix Ghost, according to Kirby, is identical to Aerovironment Switchblades*". You can listen to and see that statement from the below video at *4:19,* put together by Defense Updates.






Now, do I listen to the words of John Kirby, the current Pentagon spokesperson, or a troll like you that doesn't add anything valuable to the current discussion? I think it is pretty obvious. Stop wasting my time my troll. I lose brain-cells in responding to you.

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## nangyale

SalarHaqq said:


> Not really, no.
> 
> Other than hollow ad hominems, you failed to produce anything in response to my comments. Let alone anything tangible and valuable.
> 
> 
> 
> In fact you claiming multiple times "not to be interested" in conversing with me, but then reappearing again and again with a fresh load of uninventive personal attacks is evidence that my "desperate defense of Putin" is far from ineffectual, and far from leaving you unmoved.
> 
> 
> 
> "Screw off with this bullshit argument"... this is your counter?
> 
> Wow, what classy, thought out, substantiated argumentation!
> 
> 
> 
> Keep telling yourself that.
> 
> In the meantime, I'd suggest to go slow on predictions. Social scientists don't really like to indulge in them for a reason.


That guy is a typical brown sahib. He comes up with tall claims e-g claiming that Kherson will be taken back by Ukies within weeks and other absurdities yet has the guts to claim that others are spreading propaganda. 

Last time I challenged his ridiculous attitude he went crying back to mods, claiming that I am harassing him.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530966791496908801

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## SalarHaqq

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530715153116839937



Notice the shifting propaganda narratives coming out of the west:

Brazen, hysterical screams of "Russia is losing the war! Ukraine will reconquer "occupied" lands including Crimea itself" (followed by steady Russian advances and unchallenged Russian battlefield superiority)...

Turning into a thoroughly annoyed, "we will bring Russia to its knees through economic sanctions" (followed by an upswing in Russia's macroeconomic indicators like the Ruble experiencing record exchange rates against western currencies)...

Which then gave way to a timid, "even if Russia defeats Ukraine, Moscow will be weakened to such a point that it will forever lose its status as a major world power".



Isn't it amusing how pathetically desperate NATO and the zionists have become? It only took a special military operation by Russia to destabilize them to such an unbelievable extent, exposing their shaky foundations and inherent weaknesses like never before. Watching them fume with rage while clumsily trying to push their third rate propaganda made of ostensible untruths and rhetoric manipulation, which people increasingly manage to see through, what genuine delight.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530977792262918145

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## Primus

Raffie said:


> ROFL, the Yankees, just like the Brits, are OUR creatures, even if they don't want to acknowledge, these are facts!
> Why d'you think we lecture them the way we do and don't end bombed?
> I agree they're rather bad children who don't listen to daddy, so they repeat errors we did before them, but you know, in the end, USA will take the right decision, they will just try all the wrong ones before doing so while they would have spared themselves these issues by listening to daddy....
> Do you know at what you recognise good dogs to the USA?
> US-made jet fighters ownership!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, if you're the lapdog to our creatures...
> You're an underdog...


Okay Frenchie. Dont go surrendering to Germany now and becoming their lapdogs

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530938944598286337

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530896230825480192

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530961057723842563

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530935571945775106

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530922798792773632

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## That Guy

SalarHaqq said:


> Not really, no.
> 
> Other than hollow ad hominems, you failed to produce anything in response to my comments. Let alone anything tangible and valuable. Congrats.
> 
> 
> 
> In fact you claiming multiple times "not to be interested" in conversing with me, but then reappearing again and again with a fresh load of uninventive personal attacks is evidence that my "desperate defense of Putin" is far from ineffectual, and far from leaving you unmoved.
> 
> 
> 
> "Screw off with this bullshit argument"... this is your counter?
> 
> Wow, what classy, thought out, substantiated argumentation!
> 
> 
> 
> Keep telling yourself that.
> 
> In the meantime, I'd suggest to go slow on predictions. Social scientists don't really like to indulge in them for a reason.


Bro, don't talk about substance when all you're doing is spouting Russian propaganda without a shred of evidence.

I'm literally just calling you out on it. It's up to you to prove your own claims, not me.

And what do you mean over and over again? This is the first time I actually came back.

This is why I call your stance absolutely bullshit, because you can even tell the truth of the things that happened between us.

You speak as if you're an intellectual, but other than the obvious propagandists here, no one believes anything you say.

Prove your claims, or shut up and learn.

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## MeFishToo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530634673893826572


You just reposted another BS story. Repeating mistakes makes you look like a fool.


----------



## Soldier35

Italian 155-mm FH-70 howitzers appeared in Ukraine. The howitzer was put into service in 1976. The FH70 is a towed/self-propelled howitzer. Howitzer rate of fire, up to 4-6 rounds per minute. The firing range of the FH-70 howitzer with conventional ammunition is 24 km, with American active-reactive ammunition up to 30 km. In general, the howitzer was successful for its time, provided that the gunners were well trained.






Since March of this year, Russia began using Su-57 aircraft in Ukraine, TASS reported. Although the bulk of the Ukrainian air defense launchers have already been disabled, there are still a number of S-300 air defense systems, Buk air defense systems and a large number of MANPADS. Su-57s in Ukraine “operate outside the zone of active destruction by air defense systems, using long-range missile weapons of the R-37M missile, with a flight range of 200 km.






The work of the combat crew of the Russian self-propelled guns 2S7M "Malka" in Ukraine. Self-propelled guns with a caliber of 203 mm are designed to solve special tasks - suppression and elimination of especially protected command posts, artillery, mortars, and armored vehicles.






A Russian armored personnel carrier was ambushed by mercenaries in Ukraine.. In the video, you can see a shot of a mercenary from an RGW 90 MATADOR grenade launcher at a Russian BTR-80, despite 2 hits, the BTR continued the fight and retreated into the forest, where it was abandoned by the crew and blown up by the Ukrainian army. The video is incomplete, there are no shots of a grenade launcher hitting an armored personnel carrier.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530979160352505857

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530815163858923520

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## SalarHaqq

That Guy said:


> Bro, don't talk about substance when all you're doing is spouting Russian propaganda without a shred of evidence.
> 
> I'm literally just calling you out on it. It's up to you to prove your own claims, not me.



My contribution was amply substantiated with easily verifiable, hard facts. And from start to finish. As opposed to your ad hominems, actually. So no, the burden of proof lies not on me in this context.



That Guy said:


> And what do you mean over and over again? This is the first time I actually came back.



I mean how you keep quoting me again and again. This happened more than once. Not that I particularly care though, but for someone who repeatedly claimed they're "not interested" in conversing with me (I can remember two such instances of the top of my head), there's clearly a bizarre contradiction here.



That Guy said:


> This is why I call your stance absolutely bullshit, because you can even tell the truth of the things that happened between us.



Oh, I certainly can and did.



That Guy said:


> You speak as if you're an intellectual, but other than the obvious propagandists here, no one believes anything you say.



Who are you referring to? NATO propagandists? Obvious and well known hasbara trolls?



That Guy said:


> Prove your claims, or shut up and learn.



I perfectly substantiated my statements. It's not my fault if you prefer to resort to personal attacks, and now insults too, rather than to conduct a civil discussion. Thence, I'd counsel to adopt some basic manners, in the absence of which one is hardly in a position to lecture others.

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## Nuclear Clown

MeFishToo said:


> You just reposted another BS story. Repeating mistakes makes you look like a fool.


I like Hassan's nonsense-quotes of Putler's boyfriend...





I should say hubbie as they got married in an undisclosed EU country with gay marriage just after Putler got divorced...




Aren't 'em lovely? It looks like Adolf and Rudolf (Hess) thus Rudolf had long made his coming-out there are many pictures of him wearing women clothes, make-up et all...
Kadyrov has excused about the BS he says : he's madly in love with Vlad...


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530853899170721792

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## StraightEdge



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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519737017076264962

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## MeFishToo

Soldier35 said:


> A Russian armored personnel carrier was ambushed by mercenaries in Ukraine.. In the video, you can see a shot of a mercenary from an RGW 90 MATADOR grenade launcher at a Russian BTR-80, despite 2 hits, the BTR continued the fight and retreated into the forest, where it was abandoned by the crew and blown up by the Ukrainian army. The video is incomplete, there are no shots of a grenade launcher hitting an armored personnel carrier.


A drone was watching the BTR too. This video shows the drone footage in the end. It was hit multible times. Btw foreign volunteers are not “mercenaries”.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530986094325555201

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530987428152061952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531002511687049218

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530970684939288579


----------



## MeFishToo

Soldier35 said:


> Since March of this year, Russia began using Su-57 aircraft in Ukraine, TASS reported. Although the bulk of the Ukrainian air defense launchers have already been disabled, there are still a number of S-300 air defense systems, Buk air defense systems and a large number of MANPADS. Su-57s in Ukraine “operate outside the zone of active destruction by air defense systems, using long-range missile weapons of the R-37M missile, with a flight range of 200 km.


Russia claims the ukrainian airforce and airdefence is destroyed, and they dont trust their multirole stealth fighter to operate above Ukraine. Its just a marketing gimmick. Loosing one would permanently bury the SU-57.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530989113461071876

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530986469871038471

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530930714610266112

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## That Guy

SalarHaqq said:


> My contribution was amply substantiated with easily verifiable, hard facts. And from start to finish. As opposed to your ad hominems, actually. So no, the burden of proof lies not on me in this context.
> 
> 
> 
> I mean how you keep quoting me again and again. This happened more than once. Not that I particularly care though, but for someone who repeatedly claimed they're "not interested" in conversing with me (I can remember two such instances of the top of my head), there's clearly a bizarre contradiction here.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I certainly can and did.
> 
> 
> 
> Who are you referring to? NATO propagandists? Obvious and well known hasbara trolls?
> 
> 
> 
> I perfectly substantiated my statements. It's not my fault if you prefer to resort to personal attacks, and now insults too, rather than to conduct a civil discussion. Thence, I'd counsel to adopt some basic manners, in the absence of which one is hardly in a position to lecture others.


What hard facts, once again, you made a bunch of claims that were just a repeat of Kremlin propaganda, and are calling it hard facts.

Basically, it's just you saying "trust me, bro" and that's about it.

You can claim ad hominems all you want, but that doesn't negate my points.

My interest isn't in debating you, it's making you defend your points, which you've so far refused to do, because your points are indefensible.

Also, nice moving of the goal post. 

You haven't told the truth, which is why you've failed to prove your claims so far.

You have not substantiated your claims, not a single one.

You made a bunch of unverifiable claims, and called it a day, and now you're offended that someone dared to call out your bullshit.

You try and pretend you have the moral high ground, but that's just your problem. This is what people like you do, when you cannot defend your points.

You claim correlation equals causation.

I say bullshit.

You retort back with "ad hominem" and "trust me, bro" as defenses for your claims.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530985869309526016

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530944571626102787

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## K_Bin_W

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530985869309526016
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530944571626102787


What, still no F35 and Abrams, very disappointed..,

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530987344383426567

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530955389851803651


----------



## SalarHaqq

That Guy said:


> What hard facts, once again, you made a bunch of claims that were just a repeat of Kremlin propaganda, and are calling it hard facts.



Empirical evidence was included.



That Guy said:


> Basically, it's just you saying "trust me, bro" and that's about it.



The opposite is the case. It's me saying "this is so for reason X, Y and Z", with X, Y and Z being either empirical data i.e. proof in and by itself, or excessively well documented to the point of allowing for immediate independent verification.



That Guy said:


> My interest isn't in debating you, it's making you defend your points, which you've so far refused to do, because your points are indefensible.



More like I'm not exactly interested in reposting the same content simply because another user is refusing to read it properly.



That Guy said:


> You haven't told the truth, which is why you've failed to prove your claims so far.



I substantiated my statements with evidence. To access said evidence, all one needs to do is to refer to my contribution.



That Guy said:


> You have not substantiated your claims, not a single one.



All of them, actually.



That Guy said:


> You made a bunch of unverifiable claims, and called it a day, and now you're offended that someone dared to call out your bullshit.



Solid evidence was produced in support of my post's content.

Furthermore, what makes you assume I'm offended by your gratuitously confrontational attitude? In fact I'm overly glad, since all it achieves is to expose yourself as incapable of conducting normal, fact-based and rational discussion, for lack of valid counter-arguments.



That Guy said:


> You try and pretend you have the moral high ground, but that's just your problem. This is what people like you do, when you cannot defend your points.



For me to defend my points, someone would actually need to challenge them. Which you at any rate hardly did. Why this is so shall be anyone's guess.



That Guy said:


> You retort back with "ad hominem" and "trust me, bro" as defenses for your claims.



I do not remember employing these or similar terms.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530919901782679553

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530955389851803651


Not really convincing. A civilian car and a few soldiers, a few artillery shells = 20 armored vehicles an 100 soldiers destroyed. And a footage with trees with hardly any leaf and a bare field end of may..

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530858343312461824

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530919901782679553


Ive seen this one before. Back then it was a ukrainian ambush with an IED.


----------



## The SC

Crews of Ka-52 attack helicopters destroyed two tanks of the Ukrainian Armed Forces from a distance of more than five kilometers in Donbass.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530917738788577282
Destruction of Ukrainian artillery positions in the Mykolaiv region.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530870092732448768

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## The SC

MeFishToo said:


> Ive seen this one before. Back then it was a ukrainian ambush with an IED.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530934321095352320

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530912348369821697

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530934830304792576


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530976615299174400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530974873929101313

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530934321095352320


I think its obviously an IED, and I dont think its something an advancing force would use. My guess is its an ukrainian ambush.
Btw Russians With Attitude is totally pro-russian, and they say its an ukrainian ambush.

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## The SC

Ukrainian fighting alone in the trenches against a Russian group. Until the bitter end






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530988477336141824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530735136848896001

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> Ukrainian fighting alone in the trenches against a Russian group. Until the bitter end


Longer version showing casualties. Russia 1 - Ukraine 3. I belive 2 wounded on the russian side too.





Never the less, heroic fighting on both sides. But still a complete waste of lives, orchestrated by Putin.
Its just a guess, but the Wagner group managed to flank some position south of Popasna, and force the ukrainian defence to pull back. Could be part of this fight.

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> "*The Phoenix Ghost, according to Kirby, is identical to Aerovironment Switchblades*". You can listen to and see that statement from the below video at *4:19,* put together by Defense Updates.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, do I listen to the words of John Kirby, the current Pentagon spokesperson, or a troll like you that doesn't add anything valuable to the current discussion? I think it is pretty obvious. Stop wasting my time my troll. I lose brain-cells in responding to you.




Kirby was referring to the fact they are both loitering munitions, not that they look the same. The Ghosts have never been shown in public. And that photo was the rear of a Switchblade 300 after striking its target. 

Stop spreading disinformation

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530964713600958466

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530964358548832256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530542430323359745

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531010197031878661
Just a matter of time until Kherson is liberated.

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530964713600958466
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530964358548832256
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530542430323359745


Maybe these could convinse Hassan Al-Somal that being in the outskirts of a city doesnt mean its taken and controlled.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

MeFishToo said:


> You just reposted another BS story. Repeating mistakes makes you look like a fool.



How it is a mistake or looking like 'fool' when it is the President of Chechnya, a state within Russia, stating that they've liberated Severodonetsk? Simply because you don't want to hear the news doesn't mean that it is not the truth.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531010197031878661
> Just a matter of time until Kherson is liberated.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531012191020802048

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> How it is a mistake or looking like 'fool' when it is the President of Chechnya, a state within Russia, stating that they've liberated Severodonetsk? Simply because you don't want to hear the news doesn't mean that it is not the truth.



Severodonetsk has not been taken, and its not encircled.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530974421506301954

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530970451253551104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530970009970913284


----------



## MeFishToo

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531010197031878661
> Just a matter of time until Kherson is liberated.


I think Russia is going to fiercely defend the North Crimean Channel. Taking Kherson back is going to be very difficult.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531012472550969344

Here's a really good thread on the superiority of US M270 MLRS and HIMARSs over Russian Smerch and Uragan.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> Kirby was referring to the fact they are both loitering munitions, not that they look the same. The Ghosts have never been shown in public. And that photo was the rear of a Switchblade 300 after striking its target.
> 
> Stop spreading disinformation




How am I spreading a 'disinformation' when it is John Kirby's words that ""*The Phoenix Ghost, according to Kirby, is identical to Aerovironment Switchblades*"? 

Again, it is not me stating it; it is rather spokesperson of the Pentagon stating it. I would take his word than a propagandist like you. 

I just took a screenshot of what he's stated 👇 I'm keeping it honest and only conveying what I've heard from officials. Now, if you don't like the news, don't take it upon me; start hitting your head against the wall as that would help some of your despair and anger.

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## MeFishToo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> How it is a mistake or looking like 'fool' when it is the President of Chechnya, a state within Russia, stating that they've liberated Severodonetsk? Simply because you don't want to hear the news doesn't mean that it is not the truth.


The president of Chechnya doesnt even know which country he is in when posting on SoMe. He is a retarded russian muppet, playing warlord.
Fact is not a single analyst (pro russian, pro ukrainian or neutral) is reporting Severodonesk as fallen to Russia. Russian forces are at the outskirts, and maybe the ukrainians will choose to retreat at some point.

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> How am I spreading a 'disinformation' when it is John Kirby's words that ""*The Phoenix Ghost, according to Kirby, is identical to Aerovironment Switchblades*"?
> 
> Again, it is not me stating it; it is rather spokesperson of the Pentagon stating it. I would take his word than a propagandist like you.
> 
> I just took a screenshot of what he's stated 👇 I'm keeping it honest and only conveying what I've heard from officials. Now, if you don't like the news, don't take it upon me; start hitting your head against the wall as that would help some of your despair and anger.
> 
> 
> View attachment 849125



He's referring to them both being loitering munitions, and not that they look the same. Get it through your head. The Ghosts have never been made public.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> Severodonetsk has not been taken, and its not encircled.





MeFishToo said:


> The president of Chechnya doesnt even know which country he is in when posting on SoMe. He is a retarded russian muppet, playing warlord.




Chechyan warriors are some of the leading forces in the campaign to liberate Donbass and also to denazify Ukraine. We've seen the enormous contribution of the Chechen forces in Mariupol where they really crushed the Azov battalions. So since Kadyarov is their leader, spare me with the sh-t that you're chatting. He is more informed of what is happening on the ground than those of you who are inventing stories in their mamas' basements.



F-22Raptor said:


> He's referring to them both being loitering munitions, and not that they look the same. Get it through your head. T*he Ghosts have never been made public.*



But they've been delivered to Ukraine! 👇 And since they've been delivered to Ukraine, they're being noticed in the battle field, and Russian forces are claiming to have shot down some of them. Because it has not been shown before to the public, it is not an enough excuse to refute the Russian claims. They're getting shot down by the Russian liberators. Whether you accept those facts or not, that is entirely up to you.









As Pentagon Sends Phoenix Ghost Drones to Ukraine, Russia Slams NATO Allies


Few details are known about the 121 Phoenix Ghost drones that the Biden administration is providing to Ukraine.




www.newsweek.com

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## jamal18

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Chechyan warriors are some of the leading forces in the campaign to liberate Donbass and also to denazify Ukraine. We've seen enormous contribution of the Chechen forces in Mariupol where they really crushed the Azov battalions. So since Kadyarov is their leader, spare me with the sh-t that you're chatting. He is more informed of what is happening on the ground than those of you who are inventing stories in their mamas' basement.


I believe that Severodonetsk has been taken, and quicker than the Russians expected.

As for Kadyarov, he is often 'optimistic'. If he says something will happen, it does, only a little later than he expected.

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## MeFishToo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Chechyan warriors are some of the leading forces in the campaign to liberate Donbass and also to denazify Ukraine. We've seen enormous contribution of the Chechen forces in Mariupol where they really crushed the Azov battalions. So since Kadyarov is their leader, spare me with the sh-t that you're chatting. He is more informed of what is happening on the ground than those of you who are inventing stories in their mamas' basement.


Enormous contribution behind the frontline... They are the Dirlewanger Brigade with smartphones.
Kadyrov obviously doesnt know anything since claiming Severodonesk has fallen to Russia.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

A.P. Richelieu said:


> North Korea invaded South Korea because they could not accept that Koreans could choose their own government.
> There were several communist uprisings in South Korea where anti-communists were executed, and the South Korean responded by executing communists.
> The North Korean invasion resulted in more anti-communists civilians being executed.
> North Korea can hardly claim that that their invasion had a humanitarian background.
> 
> Russia is however worse, since they appear to execute civilians without even a political motivation.
> The executions appear to happen because they can.
> I.E: pure evil.


Why were there uprisings in South Korea? Because Syngman Rhee was a horrible military dictator.

I'm OK with your logic though. Might makes right, no problem.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530978697842503681

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530987312741593089


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Raffie said:


> Yeah, yeah, Stalin and Mao who ordered the invasion were so keen on the human rights
> Do you know that the Soviet Union was also the #1 fundraiser for antinuclear protests in the West while, in 1986, they owned 45,000 nuclear warheads ????


More whataboutism. Whatabout Soviet nukes tho? Whatabout this, whatabout that?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

MeFishToo said:


> Enormous contribution behind the frontline... They are the Dirlewanger Brigade with smartphones.
> Kadyrov obviously doesnt know anything since claiming Severodonesk has falken to Russia.



Additional reports confirming Russian forces in Severodonesk and Ukrainian forces abandoning it.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531020887121707012

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531039855534276610

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531025769765515267

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530941593473019904

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## FairAndUnbiased

Viet said:


> 100k? Why not 100m?
> Terrible
> Where do you get the number?
> People say you send Muslims to intern camps. Any resistance will be met by brutal chinese police. What is your response? When will China hold fair elections?


People say this but they have no evidence. China has elections in line with our own constitution. Enemy traitor parties are not allowed to participate. If you want to change that you are free to try to impose regime change by force over China and we will see what happens to you and your kind.

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## Paul2

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Because Syngman Rhee was a horrible military dictator.



If Lee wasn't a grandiose idiot himself, he could've resisted north quite easily. Korea is full of unpassable valleys, rivers, and marshes.

Similarly ARVN was armed to the teeth by the West, yet been badly losing.

The West effectively lost to every USSR sponsored communist takeover sans tiny Bolivia, and Grenada.

Except Colombia there were no countries where commies failed to take over once they got to the point of an open civil war.

In Grenada, US intervened, and in Colombia FARC never managed to leave the guerilla stage. They were sizeable, but they never managed to infest any sizeable part of the military, and receive direct military aid from USSR.

Even in Cuba, under the US nose, US was very afraid to directly confront a regime with Soviet military backing.

The only direct conflict US had with a USSR backed country after Korea was Vietnam War, and even there they had no temerity to simply declare war, and half-assedly dragged themselves into it through Dongjing incident.


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Paul2 said:


> If Lee wasn't a grandiose idiot himself, he could've resisted north quite easily. Korea is full of unpassable valleys, rivers, and marshes.
> 
> Similarly ARVN was armed to the teeth by the West, yet been badly losing.


If wishes were horses beggars would ride. Basically describes all the right wing dictators armed by the west who are now in the ground.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530966791496908801

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530893302953918465

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## MeFishToo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Additional reports confirming Russian forces in Severodonesk and Ukrainian forces abandoning it.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531020887121707012
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531039855534276610
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531025769765515267


You basically just confirmed that russian troops are at the outskirts of Severodonesk, using pro russian material. Now post something showing Russia has taken Severodonesk. Maybe you could ask the retarded chechnyan muppet to provide some evidence.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530970366805528577

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531032275890098180

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530991261133545473

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## Hassan Al-Somal

MeFishToo said:


> You basically just confirmed that russian troops are at the outskirts of Severodonesk, using pro russian material. Now post something showing Russia has taken Severodonesk. Maybe you could ask the retarded chechnyan muppet to provide some evidence.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531016429520179201

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## That Guy

SalarHaqq said:


> Empirical evidence was included.
> 
> 
> 
> The opposite is the case. It's me saying "this is so for reason X, Y and Z", with X, Y and Z being either empirical data i.e. proof in and by itself, or excessively well documented to the point of allowing for immediate independent verification.
> 
> 
> 
> More like I'm not exactly interested in reposting the same content simply because another user is refusing to read it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> I substantiated my statements with evidence. To access said evidence, all one needs to do is to refer to my contribution.
> 
> 
> 
> All of them, actually.
> 
> 
> 
> Solid evidence was produced in support of my post's content.
> 
> Furthermore, what makes you assume I'm offended by your gratuitously confrontational attitude? In fact I'm overly glad, since all it achieves is to expose yourself as incapable of conducting normal, fact-based and rational discussion, for lack of valid counter-arguments.
> 
> 
> 
> For me to defend my points, someone would actually need to challenge them. Which you in fact hardly did.Why this is so shall be anyone's guess.
> 
> 
> 
> I do not remember employing these or similar terms.


Uh, no.

No empirical evidence was presented, only claims.

And that's another problem of yours. You keep claiming you presented evidence, when all you did was post claims and pretended your claims were in and of themselves evidence.

Don't talk about rationalism and valid arguments when your entire argument boils down to the 'zionists and nato did it'.

I asked you for proof multiple times now, all you've done so far is deflect, deflect, deflect.

I'm not confrontational so much as asking you where is your verifiable evidence, and saying bullshit when you come up with a dumb excuse not to present it.

If you think me asking you to produce your verifiable evidence is confrontational, or me saying your bullshit argument is bullshit is an ad hominem, than that's your problem, not mine. It also goes a long way to show just how bad your arguments are.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530941593473019904

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530976867897028610

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530983889317113861

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## jamal18

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Why were there uprisings in South Korea? Because Syngman Rhee was a horrible military dictator.
> 
> I'm OK with your logic though. Might makes right, no problem.


He was imposed on the South Koreans in a fake democracy by the Americans. When the Japanese invaded Korea, he joined the Japanese army and served Japan. The leader of North Korea escaped to China where he fought against the Japanese. 

The South Koreans hated him and the American occupiers.

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## Paul2

Ukraine has started its counteroffensive in Kryviy Rih, as I predicted.

An obvious zugzwang there. A relatively sizeable Russian force, but without heavy weapons,very deep, and very cut-off.

Russians will have to retreat very quickly, or risk a cutoff, which they can't contest.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530937588206272512


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531067601006301184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531067606089752576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531067614616764416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531067622606917632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531067631939293185

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531067638318874624


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531067647206559744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531067652201906176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531067661123215363

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531067673643298816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531067681843073024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531067689250263040


----------



## The SC

BMPT-72 Terminator Review​


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531067707663196161

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531067728173342721

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531067739204460547

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531067748461182976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531067758422773761

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531067778182029312


----------



## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531032275890098180


It only took a beating for them to say what the russians wanted to hear..


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531045632751845376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530988148385275904

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531009468720369665

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531013457557999620

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531067783261433859

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531067787728371712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531067803771580416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531067811560398849

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531067825502228481

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531067838206726144

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## Nuclear Clown

K_Bin_W said:


> What, still no F35 and Abrams, very disappointed..,


Yup! We should fast track Ukraine entry into NATO into e.g. 2 weeks time... Anything left from ruZZian military on Ukraine's legitimate territory including Crimea, Donbass, etc, then becomes a target, any cross border artillery or missile will see its launchers demolished.
BTW, even US former secr of defense told it like it is about F-35...





And so did India about the Su-57 which they co-funded 50% until Apr.2018 : Su-57 is not even stealth... If you read IAF's criticisms about Su-57, you conclude it's a POS too...
They even slammed the Su-34/35 Khibiny EW suite supposed to provide an active stealth similar as SPECTRA, they weren't far from using the word "scam"... It's not the only project where India was lured in a cooperation, ended paying all bills for nothing. e.g. with the *Il-214 (renamed Il-276 since)*. India finally bought the C-130J Super-Hercules instead


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Chechyan warriors are some of the leading forces in the campaign to liberate Donbass and also to denazify Ukraine. We've seen the enormous contribution of the Chechen forces in Mariupol where they really crushed the Azov battalions. So since Kadyarov is their leader, spare me with the sh-t that you're chatting. He is more informed of what is happening on the ground than those of you who are inventing stories in their mamas' basements.


chechnyan warriors fight AGAINST ruSSia. Putler slaughtered the quarter of Chechnya population 1999-2009, using a false flag done by FSB in Moscow as an excuse for the invasion: they blew two buildings, killing 300 (poor!) Russians and it was blamed on Chechens. Kadyrov is the son of a local MOBSTER and so is he, they're traitors, and Putin is a cheat : Yeltsin granted independence to Chechnya. With Putin, ruSSia's parole and treaties worth less than toilet paper !

Moreover, Kadyrov is gay and is Putin's lover, they got secretly married, allegedly either in the Netherlands or in France, same case as Hitler and Rudolf Hess : they lambasted LGBTs in public, but, in private, it was "*La Cage aux Folles*"...

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531067848105369602

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531069978518204416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531069985195544577

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## Taimur Khurram

Raffie said:


> Yup! We should fast track Ukraine entry into NATO into e.g. 2 weeks time.



That would be such a mess, do you really want NATO-Russia warfare?


----------



## The SC

⚡️Bloomberg: #Russia is the biggest winner of the global food crisis after the 50 percent rise in wheat prices.
@soldier2017kg

Former Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe:
Zelensky chose the conflict, and Putin is a realist.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530996223964061697

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## The SC

Russia outpaces United States in developing hypersonic weapons — Russian Foreign Ministry​
According to Director of the Foreign Ministry's Department for Non-Proliferation and Arms Control Vladimir Yermakov, for Washington this is an attempt to restore the noticeably shaken reputation of an advanced military power with the most high-tech weapons..

MOSCOW, May 28. /TASS/. Russia has significantly outpaced the United States in the development of hypersonic weapons, Director of the Foreign Ministry's Department for Non-Proliferation and Arms Control Vladimir Yermakov told TASS on Saturday.

"As for the reaction to such developments, in this particular case, according to claims made by the US, they have been trying to 'catch up' with Russia for many years now, which has shown significant progress in developing hypersonic systems. This was an unavoidable move in our situation to secure guaranteed overcoming of the US global missile defense system, as well as reliable maintenance of strategic stability," he said.

"Apparently, for Washington this is an attempt to restore the noticeably shaken reputation of an advanced military power with the most high-tech weapons. It is worth noting that despite huge financial resources, not a single full-fledged hypersonic system in the United States has yet been put into service," Yermakov stressed.

Speaking about the risks from these developments for Russian security, the diplomat noted that, taking into account the destructive actions of the United States in the field of international security in recent decades, "It would not be an exaggeration to say that any new weapons system from them in itself creates risks for countries that the US counts among their opponents and adversaries.

https://tass.com/politics/1457269?u...m_campaign=google.com&utm_referrer=google.com


7,000mph, 600 miles range Zircon hypersonic nuke missile​





The Physics behind it..

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## Nuclear Clown

Paul2 said:


> Ukraine has started its counteroffensive in Kryviy Rih, as I predicted.
> 
> An obvious zugzwang there. A relatively sizeable Russian force, but without heavy weapons,very deep, and very cut-off.
> 
> Russians will have to retreat very quickly, or risk a cutoff, which they can't contest.


Sun Tzu and Zhang Yingyu at work... Old school basics of strategy


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531093211858583552

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531087166473850881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531042338184765446

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531032623627350016


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531038925451628549

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531028160296493057

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531028025579556864

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## K_Bin_W

Raffie said:


> Yup! We should fast track Ukraine entry into NATO into e.g. 2 weeks time... Anything left from ruZZian military on Ukraine's legitimate territory including Crimea, Donbass, etc, then becomes a target, any cross border artillery or missile will see its launchers demolished.
> BTW, even US former secr of defense told it like it is about F-35...
> View attachment 849154
> 
> And so did India about the Su-57 which they co-funded 50% until Apr.2018 : Su-57 is not even stealth... If you read IAF's criticisms about Su-57, you conclude it's a POS too...
> They even slammed the Su-34/35 Khibiny EW suite supposed to provide an active stealth similar as SPECTRA, they weren't far from using the word "scam"... It's not the only project where India was lured in a cooperation, ended paying all bills for nothing. e.g. with the *Il-214 (renamed Il-276 since)*. India finally bought the C-130J Super-Hercules instead
> 
> chechnyan warriors fight AGAINST ruSSia. Putler slaughtered the quarter of Chechnya population 1999-2009, using a false flag done by FSB in Moscow as an excuse for the invasion: they blew two buildings, killing 300 (poor!) Russians and it was blamed on Chechens. Kadyrov is the son of a local MOBSTER and so is he, they're traitors, and Putin is a cheat : Yeltsin granted independence to Chechnya. With Putin, ruSSia's parole and treaties worth less than toilet paper !
> 
> Moreover, Kadyrov is gay and is Putin's lover, they got secretly married, allegedly either in the Netherlands or in France, same case as Hitler and Rudolf Hess : they lambasted LGBTs in public, but, in private, it was "*La Cage aux Folles*"...


Yes please fast track every thing, I want to see F35 and Abrams in Ukraine...ASAP.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531027783597580290

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531027173657698304

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## Nuclear Clown

The SC said:


> Former Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe:
> Zelensky chose the conflict, and Putin is a realist.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530996223964061697


If true, Abe is an idiot : Putin started this war in 2014 and started a TOTAL WAR AND GENOCIDE in February ! Is Abe the Japanese Schroeder? There were talks about a bridge between Sakhalin and Japan...Well, Putin could surely have used it to invade Japan?

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## K_Bin_W

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531027783597580290
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531027173657698304


And to rub it in they have to pay in Rubles..

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531010197031878661
> Just a matter of time until Kherson is liberated.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531009468720369665

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530987978507567104


MeFishToo said:


> Enormous contribution behind the frontline... They are the Dirlewanger Brigade with smartphones.
> Kadyrov obviously doesnt know anything since claiming Severodonesk has fallen to Russia.




You're just chatting shit and rely on what you see in social media. Even the British defence agency admitted the significant role played by the Chechen forces. Of course, an arm-chair 'expert' like you who has no clue of what is happening on the ground has the audacity to open his big mouth. A simple social media search would've shown you how you're opinionated without hvaing any facts on your end. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1526912782259605506

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## Nuclear Clown

K_Bin_W said:


> Yes please fast track every thing, I want to see F35 and Abrams in Ukraine...ASAP.


Had it been up to me, there'd been Rafales patrolling over Ukraine as soon as end January and loaded with ASMPA-R under UA roundels. Mark my words, with UA having nukes again, Putin would had gave up... 
Rafale is better than F-35, it can nuke Moscow from Ukraine

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531099188150390784

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## K_Bin_W

Raffie said:


> Had it been up to me, there'd been Rafales patrolling over Ukraine as soon as end January and loaded with ASMPA-R under UA roundels. Mark my words, with UA having nukes again, Putin would had gave up...
> Rafale is better than F-35, it can nuke Moscow from Ukraine


I am glad you not in the driving seat, have mercy on EU/US.

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## PakFactor

K_Bin_W said:


> I am glad you not in the driving seat, have mercy on EU/US.



I think it would have been interesting having him in the driving seat, it would have been like adding chat masala.

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## K_Bin_W

PakFactor said:


> I think it would have been interesting having him in the driving seat, it would have been like adding chat masala.


You have a very good point...

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## letsrock

A.P. Richelieu said:


> North Korea and China had no business invading South Korea. Both North Korea and China has agreed that the UNSC has final say on such affairs.


oh for gods sake give it a break man. China is an immediate neighbor and North Korea is Korea - are you saying Koreans have no business choosing a future for Koreans ? you think you get to determine how Koreans must live and under what ideology ? would you accept if Koreans decide for you who should rule you and under what ideology ?

When north Korea was invaded no asian was allowed to be naturalized in America based on race until 1951. until 1965 no asian was allowed to immigrate. These were the laws in west. And you claim they bombed Koreans to pieces by traveling thousands of kms because they were worried about the fairness of who rules koreans ?

if indeed hypothetically that was the case - why was no attempt made to stop Park Chung hee who grabbed power in military coup in 1961 in south korea? us had massive military bases in south korea then - why was no attempt made to stop him?

i dont know how people can spin justifications for killings like this.

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## WotTen

Vladimir Putin ‘given three years to live’ and ‘is losing his eyesight due to illness’ spy claims​


Vladimir Putin ‘given three years to live’ and ‘is losing his eyesight due to illness’ spy claims



Fact?
Propaganda?
Wishful Thinking?

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## ckf

Ukraine NATO/EU ambition at crossroads, betrayal by US will be next straw to fall as Biden/democrats face inevitable defeat in the midterm elections. 









Stall on oil ban shows EU capitals trying to limit pain of helping Ukraine


As Russian troops grind through Donbas, EU nations bicker over technicalities of an oil embargo.




www.politico.eu












83% of Americans believe U.S. has gone off the rails as midterm elections loom: poll


A Gallup Poll found only 16% of adults surveyed said they are satisfied with the way things are going in the country at this time — while 83% are dissatisfied.




nypost.com


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531074120380735488


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531086014198042626


----------



## DF41

Beny Karachun said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/v04vhm










As usual, and always, Ukraine Nazis and their fervent supporters love to tell lies
And judiciously not show what happened.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530895242521628678. 💪💪💪🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺 

How many thousand Russian Generals have Ukraine Nazis killed by now?  

How many planes that Ghost of Kiev shot down?

How many parents have the Nazis killed to pretend that they then the parent trying to lurk away with the killed parents kids?



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530610840868638726





Hassan Al-Somal said:


> "*The Phoenix Ghost, according to Kirby, is identical to Aerovironment Switchblades*". You can listen to and see that statement from the below video at *4:19,* put together by Defense Updates.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, do I listen to the words of John Kirby, the current Pentagon spokesperson, or a troll like you that doesn't add anything valuable to the current discussion? I think it is pretty obvious. Stop wasting my time my troll. I lose brain-cells in responding to you.




And your time to enjoy coffee , or tea, and smell roses can be increased greatly by chucking brain dead regurgitators of NED approved postings to where sun and moon not shine and cockroaches roam about



Dropped that entity there long long long time ago.

So I can enjoy my coffee better






and time to appreciate

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## DF41

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530977792262918145




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530977792262918145

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## lcloo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530912965150420992
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530912965150420992


Looks like Ukraine is running short of transport trucks. More and more civilian cars are being pressed into militray use.

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## MeFishToo

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531074120380735488


I knew this guy was just posting crap. But still some here seem to think a random twitter post is great evidence.


----------



## jamahir

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530923694612152321



Surprising given that the Indian establishment is firmly pro-NATO.

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## A.P. Richelieu

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Why were there uprisings in South Korea? Because Syngman Rhee was a horrible military dictator.
> 
> I'm OK with your logic though. Might makes right, no problem.


There were uprisings because the communists wanted to have a communist government.

South Korea now ranks #16 on the democracy index
North Korea ranks #165 on the democracy index.
There are only 167 countries on the list.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531186834008682502

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531194278508118017

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## Corax

Raffie said:


> If true, Abe is an idiot : Putin started this war in 2014 and started a TOTAL WAR AND GENOCIDE in February ! Is Abe the Japanese Schroeder? There were talks about a bridge between Sakhalin and Japan...Well, Putin could surely have used it to invade Japan?



You know f*** all about history and what led up to Putin annexing Crimea in the first place. The US, and its poodles like the French, had been supporting the Ukrainian nationalists and Neo-Nazis since the early 2000s, there's even pictures of US senators such as John McCain in Ukraine at rallies held by the Neo- Nazi supporters. The eventual US-supported "peaceful" revolutions and overthrow of the legitimately elected president Viktor Yanukovych was the last straw for Putin. It was the direct interreference and provocation of the US and its European lapdogs like you that provoked Putin, so don't blame anyone else. *It's quite understandable you French would have sympathies with the Ukrainian and Russian neo-Nazis, given that La Pen was a close runner up in the vote, she likes Putler very much, and ideally the French don't want to see brotherly neo-Nazis fighting each other. Quite ironic really, given that France was defiled by the German Nazis, guess the Vichy regime is alive and well in France*   

Far-right group at heart of Ukraine protests meet US senator

*Protests continue in the Ukrainian capital after an endorsement from US Senator John McCain but at the heart of the movement in Kiev lies an extreme right wing party with links to the BNP.*





Ukraine’s pro-EU protests show no sign of stopping – *US Senator John McCain** dined with opposition leaders this weekend, including the extreme far-right Svoboda party.*
During his trip the former US presidential candidate met with government and opposition figures, but gave his endorsement to the pro-Europe protesters.
*Senator McCain later waved to protesters from the stage in Independence Square during a mass rally in Kiev, standing with Oleh Tyahnybok, leader of the anti-Semitic Svoboda party.*
Growing far-right​Svoboda, meaning freedom, has been enjoying a boom in success in recent years winning their first parliamentary seats in 2010, taking just over 10 per cent of the vote to become Ukraine’s fourth biggest party with 36 seats out of 450.
*The ultra-nationalist group is aligned with other European far-right parties including the BNP, but their radical stance has made them a central force in the ongoing street protests.
The party was registered in 1995, initially called the Social National Party of Ukraine and using a swastika style logo.
Read: EU suspends planned agreement with Ukraine
A 1999 report from Tel-Aviv University called the party: “an extremist, right-wing, nationalist organization which emphasizes its identification with the ideology of German National Socialism”. The party broke with their most extreme elements a decade ago, expelling groups of neo-Nazis and rebranding with a new name and logo.*
‘Jewish mafia’​However, in 2004 leader Oleh Tyahnybok gave a speech attacking what he called “the Moscow-Jewish mafia ruling Ukraine” and in another speech declared: “the Moskali, Germans, Kikes and other scum who wanted to take away our Ukrainian state.”

Despite the controversy his statements attracted in the West, Tyahnybok was voted Person of the Year by readers of Ukrainian news magazine Korrespondent last year.

In another outburst from the party their deputy chief, Ihor Miroshnychenko, wrote an anti-Semitic attack on Mila Kunis on Facebook: “Kunis is not Ukrainian, she is a Yid. She is proud of it, so Star of David be with her.”





*Extremist ban call*

The World Jewish Congress has called for Svoboda to be banned along with the Jobbik party in Hungary and Greece’s extremist Golden Dawn.

*Out on the streets of Kiev the red and black striped flag of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UIA) is regularly seen carried alongside flags carrying Svoboda’s logo.

The UIA flag belongs to an anti-communist force that sought to establish an ethnic nation state under dictatorship during the Second World War.*

Svoboda member of parliament Ihor Miroshnychenko called for the banning of a LGBT march this year declaring that “homosexuality provokes sexually transmitted diseases and AIDS”.





The statement will sit uncomfortably with Senator McCain’s wife Cindy, who has campaigned for same-sex marriage and petitioned her husband on the issue.

*However, Svoboda takes a strong anti-Moscow line and has strong relationships with elements in Europe, they are the only non-EU member of the Alliance of European National Movements – a group that includes the BNP and French National Front.

Last year, their members of parliament were involved in a brawl in an attempt to prevent a deputy from speaking in Russian from the podium. They later used a chainsaw to cut down a fence erected around the parliament building.*

‘Love of our land’​Defending his party Oleh Tyahnybok has repeatedly claimed that Svoboda is not racist or anti-Semitic, telling the New York Times: “Our view is love. Love of our land. Love of the people who live on this land. This is love to your wife and your home and your family. So, it’s love to your mother. Can this feeling be bad?”

Already, public Jewish events celebrating Hanukkah have been cancelled due to fears of violence, with Ukrainian Jewish Committee spokesman Eduard Dolinsky warning: “Increase security everywhere, at every public Jewish place”.

*After being pictured on stage at a rally with Fatherland leader, Vitaly Klitschko, and Svoboda’s Oleh Tyahnybok, McCain declared: “Those brave men and women should know that they are not alone. Their friends across the world stand in solidarity with them.”*

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## Mahabahu kaunteya

Why did we do this , talk about axing your own feet .
Ab amrika humare baare me kya sochega


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

letsrock said:


> oh for gods sake give it a break man. China is an immediate neighbor and North Korea is Korea - are you saying Koreans have no business choosing a future for Koreans ? you think you get to determine how Koreans must live and under what ideology ? would you accept if Koreans decide for you who should rule you and under what ideology ?
> 
> When north Korea was invaded no asian was allowed to be naturalized in America based on race until 1951. until 1965 no asian was allowed to immigrate. These were the laws in west. And you claim they bombed Koreans to pieces by traveling thousands of kms because they were worried about the fairness of who rules koreans ?
> 
> if indeed hypothetically that was the case - why was no attempt made to stop Park Chung hee who grabbed power in military coup in 1961 in south korea? us had massive military bases in south korea then - why was no attempt made to stop him?
> 
> i dont know how people can spin justifications for killings like this.


I am saying that a small clique of Koreans has no rights to select the government for all the Koreans.
South Korea is now a fullblown democracy and North Korea is about as authoritarian as You can get.
For South Korea this means job accomplished.
How many North Koreans have a say in how the country should be governed?


----------



## sammuel

Blueindian said:


> View attachment 849202
> View attachment 849203
> 
> Why did we do this , talk about axing your own feet .
> Ab amrika humare baare me kya sochega



3 tones you say ? That's about half what they sent Ukraine :









India provides 7,725 kg of humanitarian aid to Ukraine


India sent the first tranche of humanitarian assistance to Ukraine on March 1. Later, on March 9, India's second tranche of humanitarian aid to Ukraine was sent to Romania by an IAF. flight.




www.hindustantimes.com





~


----------



## jamahir

Blueindian said:


> View attachment 849202
> View attachment 849203
> 
> Why did we do this , talk about axing your own feet .
> Ab amrika humare baare me kya sochega





sammuel said:


> 3 tones you say ? That's about half what they sent Ukraine :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India provides 7,725 kg of humanitarian aid to Ukraine
> 
> 
> India sent the first tranche of humanitarian assistance to Ukraine on March 1. Later, on March 9, India's second tranche of humanitarian aid to Ukraine was sent to Romania by an IAF. flight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hindustantimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~



@Hassan Al-Somal, see why I expressed my surprise that the pro-NATO Hindutvadi government of India would send humanitarian assistance to Russia in Russia's war against NATO proxy Zelensky ? Those three tons were sent by not the government but by a private organization called "Russia-India Friendship Society Disha" which seems to be based in Moscow. Disha too seems tilted to Hindutvad by promoting Yoga, Ayurved and wait for it, "Ancient Vedic Science" in Russia  and had had no objection from the Indian government. OTOH look at Sammuel's source which says that Indian government sent *90 tons + 7.7 tons* of assistance including medicines to Ukraine. Where is 3 tons and where is 97 tons ? We can see where the Indian government tilts.

But the vice-president of Disha, Rati Kosinova, is cute  :

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## SIPRA

jamahir said:


> But the vice-president of Disha, Rati Kosinova, is cute  :



Great, that you found an item of your interest, even in this news.

@DrJekyll

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## jamahir

SIPRA said:


> Great, that you found an item of your interest, even in this news.
> 
> @DrJekyll



@DrJekyll seems to be angry with me.


----------



## SIPRA

jamahir said:


> @DrJekyll seems to be angry with me.



Why? I believe, he must be enjoying some chilled beer, somewhere, along with some choice meat dishes.


----------



## jamahir

SIPRA said:


> Why? I believe, he must be enjoying some chilled beer, somewhere, along with some choice meat dishes.



He must be but there was this :




__





What Are You Listening to Right Now - Round 2


Faakhir is one of my favorite 2000s singers, frickin GOAT (He looks like my uncle too but much shorter maybe that's another reason I like him :lol: ) , both the Spanish influenced one and Tauba he Tauba (especially tauba tauba) he are my all-time favorites from him @_NOBODY_ @jamahir @Blueindian...



defence.pk


----------



## SIPRA

jamahir said:


> He must be but there was this :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Are You Listening to Right Now - Round 2
> 
> 
> Faakhir is one of my favorite 2000s singers, frickin GOAT (He looks like my uncle too but much shorter maybe that's another reason I like him :lol: ) , both the Spanish influenced one and Tauba he Tauba (especially tauba tauba) he are my all-time favorites from him @_NOBODY_ @jamahir @Blueindian...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk



In my opinion, this post doesn't imply at all that he is angry with you. It seems to be a friendly complaint.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531203137368891393

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## jamahir

SIPRA said:


> In my opinion, this post doesn't imply at all that he is angry with you. It seems to be a friendly complaint.



I hope so because he was seen on the forum only 19 minutes ago but hasn't replied in the 'Indian models and actresses' thread where I tagged him last night.

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## StraightEdge

jamahir said:


> Surprising given that the Indian establishment is firmly pro-NATO.



I think we're trying to get oil for less, these will help. 
India wants Russia to discount its oil to below $70 a barrel amid war | Business Standard News (business-standard.com)

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## jamahir

StraightEdge said:


> I think we're trying to get oil for less, these will help.
> India wants Russia to discount its oil to below $70 a barrel amid war | Business Standard News (business-standard.com)



Informative article. It also mentions the other Indian government concern - Russian weaponry. If Russia decides to stop doing maintainance and supply of spares for USSR / Russia origin Indian military system as well as stop supply of ammunition then much of the military will just stop. Though USA government is going to give money to Indian government to buy hugely more number of weapons from the American and other Western military-industrial complexes for replacing Russian deals at the soonest. There was a thread about his some days ago.

Also, last night I tagged you in the 'Indian models and actresses' thread.


----------



## ckf

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531082722210418689

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## srshkmr

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530970366805528577
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531032275890098180
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530991261133545473


What are they saying in the last video?


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

A.P. Richelieu said:


> There were uprisings because the communists wanted to have a communist government.
> 
> South Korea now ranks #16 on the democracy index
> North Korea ranks #165 on the democracy index.
> There are only 167 countries on the list.


Why did they want a communist government?

Nobody in 1947 could know what South Korea would become in 2022. They could've ended up like any other number of 3rd world military dictatorships during the Cold War.


----------



## RoadAmerica

The SC said:


> Russia outpaces United States in developing hypersonic weapons — Russian Foreign Ministry​
> According to Director of the Foreign Ministry's Department for Non-Proliferation and Arms Control Vladimir Yermakov, for Washington this is an attempt to restore the noticeably shaken reputation of an advanced military power with the most high-tech weapons..
> 
> MOSCOW, May 28. /TASS/. Russia has significantly outpaced the United States in the development of hypersonic weapons, Director of the Foreign Ministry's Department for Non-Proliferation and Arms Control Vladimir Yermakov told TASS on Saturday.
> 
> "As for the reaction to such developments, in this particular case, according to claims made by the US, they have been trying to 'catch up' with Russia for many years now, which has shown significant progress in developing hypersonic systems. This was an unavoidable move in our situation to secure guaranteed overcoming of the US global missile defense system, as well as reliable maintenance of strategic stability," he said.
> 
> "Apparently, for Washington this is an attempt to restore the noticeably shaken reputation of an advanced military power with the most high-tech weapons. It is worth noting that despite huge financial resources, not a single full-fledged hypersonic system in the United States has yet been put into service," Yermakov stressed.
> 
> Speaking about the risks from these developments for Russian security, the diplomat noted that, taking into account the destructive actions of the United States in the field of international security in recent decades, "It would not be an exaggeration to say that any new weapons system from them in itself creates risks for countries that the US counts among their opponents and adversaries.
> 
> https://tass.com/politics/1457269?u...m_campaign=google.com&utm_referrer=google.com
> 
> 
> 7,000mph, 600 miles range Zircon hypersonic nuke missile​
> View attachment 849162
> 
> 
> The Physics behind it..


The Russians don’t even have a 50% accuracy rate on cruise missile, I’d take the above with a dump truck of salt

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## khansaheeb

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear:-









May 30, 2022 Russia-Ukraine news


As the battle for the Donbas region heats up, Russian forces are trying to surround Ukrainian troops in Lysychansk and Severodonetsk.




www.cnn.com





4 min ago
US President Biden says he won't send rockets to Ukraine that could reach Russia​From CNN's Kevin Liptak






President Joe Biden speaks to the media on the south lawn of the White House today in Washington, DC. (Tasos Katopodis/Getty Images)

US President Joe Biden said he doesn't plan to ship any rockets to Ukraine that could reach Russian territory.
"I won't send anything that can fire into Russia," Biden said at the White House on Monday when asked whether he was planning to send long-range rockets to Ukraine.
CNN reported last week the Biden administration is preparing to step up the kind of weaponry it is offering Ukraine by sending advanced, long-range rocket systems that are now the top request from Ukrainian officials.
The administration is leaning toward sending the systems as part of a larger package of military and security assistance to Ukraine, which could be announced as soon as next week.
The administration has wavered on whether to send the systems amid concerns raised within the National Security Council that Ukraine could use the new weapons to carry out offensive attacks inside Russia, according to officials.
On Friday, after CNN first reported the news, Russians warned that the United States will “cross a red line” if it supplies the systems to Ukraine.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> He must be but there was this :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Are You Listening to Right Now - Round 2
> 
> 
> Faakhir is one of my favorite 2000s singers, frickin GOAT (He looks like my uncle too but much shorter maybe that's another reason I like him :lol: ) , both the Spanish influenced one and Tauba he Tauba (especially tauba tauba) he are my all-time favorites from him @_NOBODY_ @jamahir @Blueindian...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk



Btw Putin is called the father of EU now. He made russia the perfect enemy to unite EU against. Its amusing because its direct opposite of what he wanted and crushs any plans of Russia to play a role in Europe for decades. 


He is also father of Ukraine now. This war forges a true ukrainian identity and will bind Ukraine to Europe.



khansaheeb said:


> Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear:-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> May 30, 2022 Russia-Ukraine news
> 
> 
> As the battle for the Donbas region heats up, Russian forces are trying to surround Ukrainian troops in Lysychansk and Severodonetsk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4 min ago
> US President Biden says he won't send rockets to Ukraine that could reach Russia​From CNN's Kevin Liptak
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> President Joe Biden speaks to the media on the south lawn of the White House today in Washington, DC. (Tasos Katopodis/Getty Images)
> 
> US President Joe Biden said he doesn't plan to ship any rockets to Ukraine that could reach Russian territory.
> "I won't send anything that can fire into Russia," Biden said at the White House on Monday when asked whether he was planning to send long-range rockets to Ukraine.
> CNN reported last week the Biden administration is preparing to step up the kind of weaponry it is offering Ukraine by sending advanced, long-range rocket systems that are now the top request from Ukrainian officials.
> The administration is leaning toward sending the systems as part of a larger package of military and security assistance to Ukraine, which could be announced as soon as next week.
> The administration has wavered on whether to send the systems amid concerns raised within the National Security Council that Ukraine could use the new weapons to carry out offensive attacks inside Russia, according to officials.
> On Friday, after CNN first reported the news, Russians warned that the United States will “cross a red line” if it supplies the systems to Ukraine.



No need for that. Partisans blow up russian assets, plants, energy grids all over russia. 


Its not our goal to strike in Russia. Goal is to kill as much russian soldiers in Ukraine as possible. Drive the cost up. The attacks inside russia are best done by partisan forces

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## F-22Raptor

khansaheeb said:


> Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear:-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> May 30, 2022 Russia-Ukraine news
> 
> 
> As the battle for the Donbas region heats up, Russian forces are trying to surround Ukrainian troops in Lysychansk and Severodonetsk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4 min ago
> US President Biden says he won't send rockets to Ukraine that could reach Russia​From CNN's Kevin Liptak
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> President Joe Biden speaks to the media on the south lawn of the White House today in Washington, DC. (Tasos Katopodis/Getty Images)
> 
> US President Joe Biden said he doesn't plan to ship any rockets to Ukraine that could reach Russian territory.
> "I won't send anything that can fire into Russia," Biden said at the White House on Monday when asked whether he was planning to send long-range rockets to Ukraine.
> CNN reported last week the Biden administration is preparing to step up the kind of weaponry it is offering Ukraine by sending advanced, long-range rocket systems that are now the top request from Ukrainian officials.
> The administration is leaning toward sending the systems as part of a larger package of military and security assistance to Ukraine, which could be announced as soon as next week.
> The administration has wavered on whether to send the systems amid concerns raised within the National Security Council that Ukraine could use the new weapons to carry out offensive attacks inside Russia, according to officials.
> On Friday, after CNN first reported the news, Russians warned that the United States will “cross a red line” if it supplies the systems to Ukraine.



Pretty sure Biden is only referring to the ATACMS missile capability that will be withheld.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531248894318886914

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## khansaheeb

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531248894318886914


That's because the Ruble has changed into Rubble and they can't afford anything any more.

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## Nuclear Clown

Corax said:


> You know f*** all about history and what led up to Putin annexing Crimea in the first place. The US, and its poodles like the French, had been supporting the Ukrainian nationalists and Neo-Nazis since the early 2000s, there's even pictures of US senators such as John McCain in Ukraine at rallies held by the Neo- Nazi supporters. The eventual US-supported "peaceful" revolutions and overthrow of the legitimately elected president Viktor Yanukovych was the last straw for Putin. It was the direct interreference and provocation of the US and its European lapdogs like you that provoked Putin, so don't blame anyone else. *It's quite understandable you French would have sympathies with the Ukrainian and Russian neo-Nazis, given that La Pen was a close runner up in the vote, she likes Putler very much, and ideally the French don't want to see brotherly neo-Nazis fighting each other. Quite ironic really, given that France was defiled by the German Nazis, guess the Vichy regime is alive and well in France*
> 
> Far-right group at heart of Ukraine protests meet US senator
> 
> *Protests continue in the Ukrainian capital after an endorsement from US Senator John McCain but at the heart of the movement in Kiev lies an extreme right wing party with links to the BNP.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine’s pro-EU protests show no sign of stopping – *US Senator John McCain** dined with opposition leaders this weekend, including the extreme far-right Svoboda party.*
> During his trip the former US presidential candidate met with government and opposition figures, but gave his endorsement to the pro-Europe protesters.
> *Senator McCain later waved to protesters from the stage in Independence Square during a mass rally in Kiev, standing with Oleh Tyahnybok, leader of the anti-Semitic Svoboda party.*
> Growing far-right​Svoboda, meaning freedom, has been enjoying a boom in success in recent years winning their first parliamentary seats in 2010, taking just over 10 per cent of the vote to become Ukraine’s fourth biggest party with 36 seats out of 450.
> *The ultra-nationalist group is aligned with other European far-right parties including the BNP, but their radical stance has made them a central force in the ongoing street protests.
> The party was registered in 1995, initially called the Social National Party of Ukraine and using a swastika style logo.
> Read: EU suspends planned agreement with Ukraine
> A 1999 report from Tel-Aviv University called the party: “an extremist, right-wing, nationalist organization which emphasizes its identification with the ideology of German National Socialism”. The party broke with their most extreme elements a decade ago, expelling groups of neo-Nazis and rebranding with a new name and logo.*
> ‘Jewish mafia’​However, in 2004 leader Oleh Tyahnybok gave a speech attacking what he called “the Moscow-Jewish mafia ruling Ukraine” and in another speech declared: “the Moskali, Germans, Kikes and other scum who wanted to take away our Ukrainian state.”
> 
> Despite the controversy his statements attracted in the West, Tyahnybok was voted Person of the Year by readers of Ukrainian news magazine Korrespondent last year.
> 
> In another outburst from the party their deputy chief, Ihor Miroshnychenko, wrote an anti-Semitic attack on Mila Kunis on Facebook: “Kunis is not Ukrainian, she is a Yid. She is proud of it, so Star of David be with her.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Extremist ban call*
> 
> The World Jewish Congress has called for Svoboda to be banned along with the Jobbik party in Hungary and Greece’s extremist Golden Dawn.
> 
> *Out on the streets of Kiev the red and black striped flag of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UIA) is regularly seen carried alongside flags carrying Svoboda’s logo.
> 
> The UIA flag belongs to an anti-communist force that sought to establish an ethnic nation state under dictatorship during the Second World War.*
> 
> Svoboda member of parliament Ihor Miroshnychenko called for the banning of a LGBT march this year declaring that “homosexuality provokes sexually transmitted diseases and AIDS”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The statement will sit uncomfortably with Senator McCain’s wife Cindy, who has campaigned for same-sex marriage and petitioned her husband on the issue.
> 
> *However, Svoboda takes a strong anti-Moscow line and has strong relationships with elements in Europe, they are the only non-EU member of the Alliance of European National Movements – a group that includes the BNP and French National Front.
> 
> Last year, their members of parliament were involved in a brawl in an attempt to prevent a deputy from speaking in Russian from the podium. They later used a chainsaw to cut down a fence erected around the parliament building.*
> 
> ‘Love of our land’​Defending his party Oleh Tyahnybok has repeatedly claimed that Svoboda is not racist or anti-Semitic, telling the New York Times: “Our view is love. Love of our land. Love of the people who live on this land. This is love to your wife and your home and your family. So, it’s love to your mother. Can this feeling be bad?”
> 
> Already, public Jewish events celebrating Hanukkah have been cancelled due to fears of violence, with Ukrainian Jewish Committee spokesman Eduard Dolinsky warning: “Increase security everywhere, at every public Jewish place”.
> 
> *After being pictured on stage at a rally with Fatherland leader, Vitaly Klitschko, and Svoboda’s Oleh Tyahnybok, McCain declared: “Those brave men and women should know that they are not alone. Their friends across the world stand in solidarity with them.”*



You know what? When you want to kill your dog, you say it has rabies !!!!
No country is "forced" to invade another unless BEING UNDER ATTACK WITH NO OTHER MEAN TO FORCE THE INVADER OUT!!!
Now, let's show some very ironic pictures :




Oooops!!!! 
















Oooops!!!! 








🤡
If there was some kind of oppression on Russian speaking population which are not Russian nationals and Putin worried about them, he'd do just like Israel did in several countries, I think that the most recent was Yemen where Houthis were definitively into exterminating the last Jews which also weren't Israeli nationals : they arranged their evacuation and moved them to Israel!!
And mark my words, it'd be MUCH cheaper to relocate all the Russia-funded separatists and sympathizers as well as those feeling threatened into Russia than starting a war, and since your "*Novorossiya*" project...




is using forced recruitment to force the inhabitants of illegitimate LPR and DPR into becoming canon-fodder against their own country that is Ukraine, your blah blah blah is nothing else than applying Goebbels' propaganda tenets because you believe that a line repeated 1000 times becomes truth, but you guys at the *55 Savushkina Street in Saint Petersburg* have forgotten was to do your homework :
2 months before suiciding his whole family and himself, your beloved Goebbels declared :




And neither your boss Prighozin as well Putin, are as good liars as Goebbels or Putin's ex-boss who was even a better spin doctor than Goebbels, the "great" Yuri Andropov...
Frankly, had Andropov spent his energy at doing comics or novels rather than ruining other peoples' lives, he'd now be as famed as Stan Lee, Tolkien, Frank Herbert or John Brunner...
Anyone scratching the surface will debunk your excuses in minutes and *THE INVASION OF UKRAINE IN ITSELF IS ALREADY A WAR CRIME BEING PERPETRATED FOR 8 YEARS!!!*

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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Ghost UAV and Switchblades 3000 look alike to each other. But it was shot down any way and that is what counts at the end. Good riddance! Now, go and cry about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530960656874217472


lol, and you know what a Ghost UAV looks like?

I have TS/SCI clearance, and I have been Ukraine, and even I don't know what's a Ghost UAV looks like.

That's quite very obvious is a switchblade 300, maybe it's time to backtrack instead of doubling down on a mistake. 

And lol, saying it was shot down is like I pick up a projectile on the ground after being fired from an AK-47 and said I have intercepted the bullet. They are "Suicidal Drone" they are supposed to be "Expanded"

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## _Nabil_

Negative views of Russia mainly limited to western liberal democracies, poll shows


Annual global survey of attitudes to democracy finds many countries maintain positive views of Russia




www.theguardian.com





Negative views of Russia mainly limited to western liberal democracies, poll shows

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## Corax

Raffie said:


> No country is "forced" to invade another unless BEING UNDER ATTACK WITH NO OTHER MEAN TO FORCE THE INVADER OUT!!!



Ummh... North Korea, Vietnam (where both you French and US lost), Iraq (remember those invisible WMDs?!), Afghanistan (USSR invasion)...there's an endless list  

Perhaps you didn't read my post....I know there are neo-Nazis in Russia, as there are in Ukraine. Like I've said before, this is a Slavic civil war between one bunch of Slavic neo-Nazis, and another bunch. The only difference is that that French neo-Nazis like you and the Redneck Yanks support Ukrainian neo-Nazis to defeat the Russian neo-Nazis. Damn if I care who wins or loses.

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## ckf

Apollon said:


> Btw Putin is called the father of EU now. He made russia the perfect enemy to unite EU against. Its amusing because its direct opposite of what he wanted and crushs any plans of Russia to play a role in Europe for decades.
> 
> 
> He is also father of Ukraine now. This war forges a true ukrainian identity and will bind Ukraine to Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> No need for that. Partisans blow up russian assets, plants, energy grids all over russia.
> 
> 
> Its not our goal to strike in Russia. Goal is to kill as much russian soldiers in Ukraine as possible. Drive the cost up. The attacks inside russia are best done by partisan forces


You know Russia has Long range bombers, cruise missiles, and Tactical nukes. So where are those partisan forces going to come from to attack Russia or do you mean terrorist? Russia has the capabilities to do much more damage to Ukraine than terroism as this war has already proved. Ukraine biggest issue is not Russia, population decline is. Ukraine has lost close to half of its population from inception(post soviet breakup) 59 million to 41 million according to census. Losing another 6.5 million to the war, meaning only 35.5 million remaining.

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## NotSure

RoadAmerica said:


> The Russians don’t even have a 50% accuracy rate on cruise missile,


Yeah, because murican propaganda said so.


----------



## Nuclear Clown

Corax said:


> You know f*** all about history and what led up to Putin annexing Crimea in the first place. The US, and its poodles like the French, had been supporting the Ukrainian nationalists and Neo-Nazis since the early 2000s, there's even pictures of US senators such as John McCain in Ukraine at rallies held by the Neo- Nazi supporters. The eventual US-supported "peaceful" revolutions and overthrow of the legitimately elected president Viktor Yanukovych was the last straw for Putin. It was the direct interreference and provocation of the US and its European lapdogs like you that provoked Putin, so don't blame anyone else. *It's quite understandable you French would have sympathies with the Ukrainian and Russian neo-Nazis, given that La Pen was a close runner up in the vote, she likes Putler very much, and ideally the French don't want to see brotherly neo-Nazis fighting each other. Quite ironic really, given that France was defiled by the German Nazis, guess the Vichy regime is alive and well in France*
> 
> Far-right group at heart of Ukraine protests meet US senator
> 
> *Protests continue in the Ukrainian capital after an endorsement from US Senator John McCain but at the heart of the movement in Kiev lies an extreme right wing party with links to the BNP.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine’s pro-EU protests show no sign of stopping – *US Senator John McCain** dined with opposition leaders this weekend, including the extreme far-right Svoboda party.*
> During his trip the former US presidential candidate met with government and opposition figures, but gave his endorsement to the pro-Europe protesters.
> *Senator McCain later waved to protesters from the stage in Independence Square during a mass rally in Kiev, standing with Oleh Tyahnybok, leader of the anti-Semitic Svoboda party.*
> Growing far-right​Svoboda, meaning freedom, has been enjoying a boom in success in recent years winning their first parliamentary seats in 2010, taking just over 10 per cent of the vote to become Ukraine’s fourth biggest party with 36 seats out of 450.
> *The ultra-nationalist group is aligned with other European far-right parties including the BNP, but their radical stance has made them a central force in the ongoing street protests.
> The party was registered in 1995, initially called the Social National Party of Ukraine and using a swastika style logo.
> Read: EU suspends planned agreement with Ukraine
> A 1999 report from Tel-Aviv University called the party: “an extremist, right-wing, nationalist organization which emphasizes its identification with the ideology of German National Socialism”. The party broke with their most extreme elements a decade ago, expelling groups of neo-Nazis and rebranding with a new name and logo.*
> ‘Jewish mafia’​However, in 2004 leader Oleh Tyahnybok gave a speech attacking what he called “the Moscow-Jewish mafia ruling Ukraine” and in another speech declared: “the Moskali, Germans, Kikes and other scum who wanted to take away our Ukrainian state.”
> 
> Despite the controversy his statements attracted in the West, Tyahnybok was voted Person of the Year by readers of Ukrainian news magazine Korrespondent last year.
> 
> In another outburst from the party their deputy chief, Ihor Miroshnychenko, wrote an anti-Semitic attack on Mila Kunis on Facebook: “Kunis is not Ukrainian, she is a Yid. She is proud of it, so Star of David be with her.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Extremist ban call*
> 
> The World Jewish Congress has called for Svoboda to be banned along with the Jobbik party in Hungary and Greece’s extremist Golden Dawn.
> 
> *Out on the streets of Kiev the red and black striped flag of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UIA) is regularly seen carried alongside flags carrying Svoboda’s logo.
> 
> The UIA flag belongs to an anti-communist force that sought to establish an ethnic nation state under dictatorship during the Second World War.*
> 
> Svoboda member of parliament Ihor Miroshnychenko called for the banning of a LGBT march this year declaring that “homosexuality provokes sexually transmitted diseases and AIDS”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The statement will sit uncomfortably with Senator McCain’s wife Cindy, who has campaigned for same-sex marriage and petitioned her husband on the issue.
> 
> *However, Svoboda takes a strong anti-Moscow line and has strong relationships with elements in Europe, they are the only non-EU member of the Alliance of European National Movements – a group that includes the BNP and French National Front.
> 
> Last year, their members of parliament were involved in a brawl in an attempt to prevent a deputy from speaking in Russian from the podium. They later used a chainsaw to cut down a fence erected around the parliament building.*
> 
> ‘Love of our land’​Defending his party Oleh Tyahnybok has repeatedly claimed that Svoboda is not racist or anti-Semitic, telling the New York Times: “Our view is love. Love of our land. Love of the people who live on this land. This is love to your wife and your home and your family. So, it’s love to your mother. Can this feeling be bad?”
> 
> Already, public Jewish events celebrating Hanukkah have been cancelled due to fears of violence, with Ukrainian Jewish Committee spokesman Eduard Dolinsky warning: “Increase security everywhere, at every public Jewish place”.
> 
> *After being pictured on stage at a rally with Fatherland leader, Vitaly Klitschko, and Svoboda’s Oleh Tyahnybok, McCain declared: “Those brave men and women should know that they are not alone. Their friends across the world stand in solidarity with them.”*



Oh, BTW... 
I can't wait for other stuff... Nazi base on the Moon !!!




Nazi bases in Antarctica: 







Nazi UFOs







Because, hey, don't you ignore that they're allied with...
The Little Greys, the Reptilians, the Heptapods and the terrifying Xenomorphs













But the most worrying ones are not the naZis : the French made an alliance with the *Shadoks*!!!




Their Cosmopump puts at risk all the laws of physics, threatening to make the whole universe becoming cartoon like!!!
Your only hope is




Piotr Nikolaievitch Rasputin, AKA _Colossus_, AKA The _Proletarian_

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## sammuel

khansaheeb said:


> Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear:-
> US President Biden says he won't send rockets to Ukraine that could reach Russia​



Biden is a responsible leader. 

Compare that to Putin , who decided to gamble with the world future , and took us to this adventure , which no one yet knows exactly how it is going to end. 

~

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## Nuclear Clown

NotSure said:


> Yeah, because murican propaganda said so.


Nope, they're very nice: they say that Russian weapons failure is only 10% over the Murican one!


----------



## Corax

Raffie said:


> Oh, BTW...
> I can't wait for other stuff... Nazi base on the Moon !!!
> View attachment 849347
> 
> Nazi bases in Antarctica:
> View attachment 849355
> View attachment 849356
> 
> Nazi UFOs
> View attachment 849350
> View attachment 849351
> 
> Because, hey, don't you ignore that they're allied with...
> The Little Greys, the Reptilians, the Heptapods and the terrifying Xenomorphs
> View attachment 849354
> View attachment 849353
> View attachment 849348
> View attachment 849349
> 
> But the most worrying ones are not the naZis : the French made an alliance with the *Shadoks*!!!
> View attachment 849357
> 
> Their Cosmopump puts at risk all the laws of physics, threatening to make the whole universe becoming cartoon like!!!
> Your only hope is
> View attachment 849362
> 
> Piotr Nikolaievitch Rasputin, AKA _Colossus_, AKA The _Proletarian_



And you forgot the most French of all Nazis, Vichy Nazis!  






Current French neo-Nazis 






And the French neo Nazi Army!!






Call me when you French actually manage not to surrender and win a war on your own.

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## khansaheeb

sammuel said:


> Biden is a responsible leader.
> 
> Compare that to Putin , who decided to gamble with the world future , and took us to this adventure , which no one yet knows exactly how it is going to end.
> 
> ~


Fueling a fire just enough for it to continue is not responsible at all. Biden should help to put out the fire one way or another.



Raffie said:


> You know what? When you want to kill your dog, you say it has rabies !!!!
> No country is "forced" to invade another unless BEING UNDER ATTACK WITH NO OTHER MEAN TO FORCE THE INVADER OUT!!!
> Now, let's show some very ironic pictures :
> View attachment 849308
> 
> Oooops!!!!
> View attachment 849309
> View attachment 849310
> View attachment 849312
> View attachment 849313
> View attachment 849315
> 
> Oooops!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 849316
> 
> 🤡
> If there was some kind of oppression on Russian speaking population which are not Russian nationals and Putin worried about them, he'd do just like Israel did in several countries, I think that the most recent was Yemen where Houthis were definitively into exterminating the last Jews which also weren't Israeli nationals : they arranged their evacuation and moved them to Israel!!
> And mark my words, it'd be MUCH cheaper to relocate all the Russia-funded separatists and sympathizers as well as those feeling threatened into Russia than starting a war, and since your "*Novorossiya*" project...
> View attachment 849303
> 
> is using forced recruitment to force the inhabitants of illegitimate LPR and DPR into becoming canon-fodder against their own country that is Ukraine, your blah blah blah is nothing else than applying Goebbels' propaganda tenets because you believe that a line repeated 1000 times becomes truth, but you guys at the *55 Savushkina Street in Saint Petersburg* have forgotten was to do your homework :
> 2 months before suiciding his whole family and himself, your beloved Goebbels declared :
> View attachment 849304
> 
> And neither your boss Prighozin as well Putin, are as good liars as Goebbels or Putin's ex-boss who was even a better spin doctor than Goebbels, the "great" Yuri Andropov...
> Frankly, had Andropov spent his energy at doing comics or novels rather than ruining other peoples' lives, he'd now be as famed as Stan Lee, Tolkien, Frank Herbert or John Brunner...
> Anyone scratching the surface will debunk your excuses in minutes and *THE INVASION OF UKRAINE IN ITSELF IS ALREADY A WAR CRIME BEING PERPETRATED FOR 8 YEARS!!!*


What nonsense are you peddling, this is just utter BS , stop fabricating stuff, Jews have been allowed to live peacefully in Muslim lands -"Yemen where Houthis were definitively into exterminating the last Jews which also weren't Israeli nationals : they arranged their evacuation and moved them to Israel!!"

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## Primus

Raffie said:


> You know what? When you want to kill your dog, you say it has rabies !!!!
> No country is "forced" to invade another unless BEING UNDER ATTACK WITH NO OTHER MEAN TO FORCE THE INVADER OUT!!!
> Now, let's show some very ironic pictures :
> View attachment 849308
> 
> Oooops!!!!
> View attachment 849309
> View attachment 849310
> View attachment 849312
> View attachment 849313
> View attachment 849315
> 
> Oooops!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 849316
> 
> 🤡
> If there was some kind of oppression on Russian speaking population which are not Russian nationals and Putin worried about them, he'd do just like Israel did in several countries, I think that the most recent was Yemen where Houthis were definitively into exterminating the last Jews which also weren't Israeli nationals : they arranged their evacuation and moved them to Israel!!
> And mark my words, it'd be MUCH cheaper to relocate all the Russia-funded separatists and sympathizers as well as those feeling threatened into Russia than starting a war, and since your "*Novorossiya*" project...
> View attachment 849303
> 
> is using forced recruitment to force the inhabitants of illegitimate LPR and DPR into becoming canon-fodder against their own country that is Ukraine, your blah blah blah is nothing else than applying Goebbels' propaganda tenets because you believe that a line repeated 1000 times becomes truth, but you guys at the *55 Savushkina Street in Saint Petersburg* have forgotten was to do your homework :
> 2 months before suiciding his whole family and himself, your beloved Goebbels declared :
> View attachment 849304
> 
> And neither your boss Prighozin as well Putin, are as good liars as Goebbels or Putin's ex-boss who was even a better spin doctor than Goebbels, the "great" Yuri Andropov...
> Frankly, had Andropov spent his energy at doing comics or novels rather than ruining other peoples' lives, he'd now be as famed as Stan Lee, Tolkien, Frank Herbert or John Brunner...
> Anyone scratching the surface will debunk your excuses in minutes and *THE INVASION OF UKRAINE IN ITSELF IS ALREADY A WAR CRIME BEING PERPETRATED FOR 8 YEARS!!!*


*cough cough french colonialism cough cough*

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## jamahir

Corax said:


> *Protests continue in the Ukrainian capital after an endorsement from US Senator John McCain but at the heart of the movement in Kiev lies an extreme right wing party with links to the BNP.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine’s pro-EU protests show no sign of stopping – *US Senator John McCain** dined with opposition leaders this weekend, including the extreme far-right Svoboda party.*
> During his trip the former US presidential candidate met with government and opposition figures, but gave his endorsement to the pro-Europe protesters.
> *Senator McCain later waved to protesters from the stage in Independence Square during a mass rally in Kiev, standing with Oleh Tyahnybok, leader of the anti-Semitic Svoboda party.*



Also Senator John McCain in Syria illegally in 2015 standing with "Syrian" "moderate" "rebels" aka Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood :







Apollon said:


> Btw Putin is called the father of EU now. He made russia the perfect enemy to unite EU against. Its amusing because its direct opposite of what he wanted and crushs any plans of Russia to play a role in Europe for decades.
> 
> 
> He is also father of Ukraine now. This war forges a true ukrainian identity and will bind Ukraine to Europe.



You talk as if EU / Europe and Ukraine have people of the same mind. There will be many in Britain, Italy, Greece ( @Foinikas included ), Turkey, your Germany too, Poland, maybe France and other places too who will be opposed to Zelensky, his Nazi military and to his NATO masters.


----------



## ckf

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531296156520620032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531301303770439680


----------



## Apollon

ckf said:


> You know Russia has Long range bombers, cruise missiles, and Tactical nukes. So where are those partisan forces going to come from to attack Russia or do you mean terrorist? Russia has the capabilities to do much more damage to Ukraine than terroism as this war has already proved. Ukraine biggest issue is not Russia, population decline is. Ukraine has lost close to half of its population from inception(post soviet breakup) 59 million to 41 million according to census. Losing another 6.5 million to the war, meaning only 35.5 million remaining.



They are already inside russia. Who do you think blows up all those factories, train railways, ammo plants and fuel depots.



jamahir said:


> Also Senator John McCain in Syria illegally in 2015 standing with "Syrian" "moderate" "rebels" aka Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You talk as if EU / Europe and Ukraine have people of the same mind. There will be many in Britain, Italy, Greece ( @Foinikas included ), Turkey, your Germany too, Poland, maybe France and other places too who will be opposed to Zelensky, his Nazi military and to his NATO masters.



You mean those 5% morons and russian 5th column. They have zero influence in european politics. 


Thats what you dont get, its not about Ukraine. Putin wants attack Europe next. So killing as much russian troops in Ukraine is essential, cutting all trade, energy ect is done too.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531306582679724033

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531278342137483265


----------



## ckf

Apollon said:


> They are already inside russia. Who do you think blows up all those factories, train railways, ammo plants and fuel depots.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean those 5% morons and russian 5th column. They have zero influence in european politics.
> 
> 
> Thats what you dont get, its not about Ukraine. Putin wants attack Europe next. So killing as much russian troops in Ukraine is essential, cutting all trade, energy ect is done too.



Stop spreading lies, Macron and Schultz has both talk to Putin about peace settlement, apparently you did not get the memo. America and Britain will be Eu's biggest enemy for the foreseeable future because Euro as competing fiat currency/slash multipolar world hurts American/British economic Interest, you're too blind to see the realities.

America's core interest is 5 eye nations, UK, Canada, New Zealand, and Australia as an Axis of global power, not EU. UK did not accidently leave the Euro zone.

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## jamahir

_Nabil_ said:


> Negative views of Russia mainly limited to western liberal democracies, poll shows
> 
> 
> Annual global survey of attitudes to democracy finds many countries maintain positive views of Russia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Negative views of Russia mainly limited to western liberal democracies, poll shows



Surprised to see Saudia and Morocco have people with positive views about Russia.



Apollon said:


> They are already inside russia. Who do you think blows up all those factories, train railways, ammo plants and fuel depots.



Sources for these news items please. And about railways there was one train that got derailed because of landslide on the tracks and NATO press immediately declared "Ukraine resistance in ebeel Russia !", LOL.



Apollon said:


> You mean those 5% morons and russian 5th column. They have zero influence in european politics.



You denigrate them but I thought Europe was a "liberal democracy" where people are listened to. 



Apollon said:


> Thats what you dont get, its not about Ukraine. Putin wants attack Europe next. So killing as much russian troops in Ukraine is essential, cutting all trade, energy ect is done too.



We have discussed this before. Russia was once the USSR, an advanced society with much experience in space operations including and in computing and other technologies. Now too. Better for Europe to have educational, cultural and technological ties with Russia than the one playing you Europeans - USA government.

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## Foinikas

Corax said:


> And you forgot the most French of all Nazis, Vichy Nazis!


I didn't read the previous conversation,but one shouldn't include Franco and Petain among "Nazis". Unless of course,you're being sarcastic.

Apollon is back from his weekly ban and ready for fighting Russia on the keyboard?



jamahir said:


> You talk as if EU / Europe and Ukraine have people of the same mind. There will be many in Britain, Italy, Greece ( @Foinikas included ), Turkey, your Germany too, Poland, maybe France and other places too who will be opposed to Zelensky, his Nazi military and to his NATO masters.


There are thousands of people who don't like Zelensky or are at least suspicious of USA and NATO promoting him. In the Balkans,in Italy,in Turkey and even in the Middle-East.

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## jamahir

Foinikas said:


> There thousands of people who don't like Zelensky or are at least suspicious of USA and NATO promoting him. In the Balkans,in Italy,in Turkey and even in the Middle-East.



Indeed. And @Apollon hasn't acknowledged that even within Ukraine Zelensky has banned the opposition parties and done grave crimes against Ukrainians.


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Surprised to see Saudia and Morocco have people with positive views about Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> Sources for these news items please. And about railways there was one train that got derailed because of landslide on the tracks and NATO press immediately declared "Ukraine resistance in ebeel Russia !", LOL.
> 
> 
> 
> You denigrate them but I thought Europe was a "liberal democracy" where people are listened to.
> 
> 
> 
> We have discussed this before. Russia was once the USSR, an advanced society with much experience in space operations including and in computing and other technologies. Now too. Better for Europe to have educational, cultural and technological ties with Russia than the one playing you Europeans - USA government.



USSR was a facist murderous regime.


Its better for us to destroy mordor.



Foinikas said:


> I didn't read the previous conversation,but one shouldn't include Franco and Petain among "Nazis". Unless of course,you're being sarcastic.
> 
> Apollon is back from his weekly ban and ready for fighting Russia on the keyboard?
> 
> 
> There are thousands of people who don't like Zelensky or are at least suspicious of USA and NATO promoting him. In the Balkans,in Italy,in Turkey and even in the Middle-East.



Not just on keyboard buddy. 


Personal made a russian be kicked from our sports club. I dont want train with enemy nearby.


----------



## PakFactor

Apollon said:


> USSR was a facist murderous regime.
> 
> 
> Its better for us to destroy mordor.
> 
> 
> 
> Not just on keyboard buddy.
> 
> 
> Personal made a russian be kicked from our sports club. I dont want train with enemy nearby.



I agree, let's mobilize all of Europe and invade Russia.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531304533460148227


----------



## Apollon

PakFactor said:


> I agree, let's mobilize all of Europe and invade Russia.



Why invade? Its a worthless and dead country. At this point its enough to just kill them in ukraine.

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## Nuclear Clown

Blueindian said:


> View attachment 849202
> View attachment 849203
> 
> Why did we do this , talk about axing your own feet .
> Ab amrika humare baare me kya sochega


Don't worry : at the start of WW2, before Pearl Harbour and Hitler's declaration of war on the USA, there was such kind of "friendship association" in the USA!!
It was called the German American Bund...





It's a PR stunt : they use the freedom of association to stage such stuff and make people think India is backing the war!
Look, at the height of the Cold War in the 80's, the Soviets+Warsaw Pact had 45,000 nuclear warheads, 65,000 tanks, 12,000 combat aircraft...
And they were MASSIVELY funding ALL the pacifist and anti nuclear protests and associations, as well as all the far-left terrorism (Rötte Armee Fraktion, Brigatte Rosso, Action Directe, Cellules Communistes Combatantes) as well as all local Commie-Parties...



Corax said:


> Ummh... North Korea, Vietnam (where both you French and US lost), Iraq (remember those invisible WMDs?!), Afghanistan (USSR invasion)...there's an endless list
> 
> Perhaps you didn't read my post....I know there are neo-Nazis in Russia, as there are in Ukraine. Like I've said before, this is a Slavic civil war between one bunch of Slavic neo-Nazis, and another bunch. The only difference is that that French neo-Nazis like you and the Redneck Yanks support Ukrainian neo-Nazis to defeat the Russian neo-Nazis. Damn if I care who wins or loses.


None were forced to invade, and the only borders that haven't been carved by invasions are straight lines...issued from decolonisation.
There are no good guys in geopolitics, and that's why many are now promoting rules-based international relations, while autocrats want to return the world to this mess.

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## MeFishToo

ckf said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531082722210418689


Oh please. I’ll bet the evidence of this is “look, the top floors of all the buildings are destroyed. Russian shells only hit nazies“


----------



## MeFishToo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> You're just chatting shit and rely on what you see in social media. Even the British defence agency admitted the significant role played by the Chechen forces. Of course, an arm-chair 'expert' like you who has no clue of what is happening on the ground has the audacity to open his big mouth. A simple social media search would've shown you how you're opinionated without hvaing any facts on your end.


That is hilarious comming from you, reposting whatever some noname tweets about fake russian advances. You’re flooding this thread with the same bogus tweets blindly cheering Russia and your favourite chechen wannabee SOF operators. And youre telling me I rely on social media?


----------



## jhungary

Day 90 - Russo-Ukrainian War

This is the actual 3 months mark for this war (February only have 28 days, March and May have 31 days in its month. So let see what is different now then before, and what do I think is going to happen on both side. Also I will be talking about my trip to Ukraine (Made between April/May) and the outlook of the entire Ukrainian defence.

*Situation in Ukraine*

Most of Western Ukraine are secure, and south have also been stabilised, there southern front stopped around Mykolaiv and Kherson Oblast is now a see-saw battle. Kyiv and most Western Ukraine city have started to come back to business as usual mode, and rocket attack/Airstrike are few and far between, it's logically because without troop in the area to take advantage of the attack, any attack lob against Kyiv and any civilian area is just going to be waste of missile.

When I was in Ukraine, I have visited Kharkiv (While it was still active, but since have been counterattacked and cleared) and also Zaporizhzhia, Zaporizhzhia is like most city in the West, seldom attacked and damage was limited, Kharkiv, on the other hand, is a different issue, most of the civilian settlement were destroyed. And the city has been battered. 

However, most fighting is now on Eastern and Southern side of Kharkiv now. And that was a no-go area except Ukrainian Military, civilian traffic is one way out of the area, as far as I understand, the area is evacuated. 

My Job overthere is to train a cadre of Territorial Defence Force, which will be used to compensate the combat loss and the defence duty, freeing up regular troop and join the fight to the East. The TDF is now at 4th Rotation (I was teaching part of their 3rd) each "Tranche" have a specific objective, while I cannot tell you what Tranche 3 is for due to OPSEC reason, all I can say it is a reflection of the phase of War the Ukrainian is currently in.
*
Russian Advance*






Reliable intel suggested Russian have deployed over 60BTG (about 60,000 men) in Donbas. The deployment are on 3 fronts, Lyman, Popansa and Rubizhne. The attack on Lyman would suggest either Izyum Axis have taken the backseat or has been abandoned altogether seeing they are on the same axis of advance. I would think Russian Troop in Izyum have had pulled back to defend the vital supplyline from Northern Kharkiv/Belgorod down Kupiansk. Hence a second line, a more modest line around Lyman was opened in the last few weeks. 

Southern Advance has more or less stalled, with Russian troop dig in near Kherson, at this point, activities level would be low except some local offensive/counter-offensive to probe the line or disrupt the defence. I would not see both side gaining large ground in the coming weeks, for the Russian, they don't have enough troop to push. For the Ukrainian, they need to focus on the Eastern Offensive. 

Donbas Offensive are seemingly focus on Luhansk region now, specifically to capture the city of Sieverodonetsk, Force south of Bakhmut did not cross into North, nor break out for Donetsk region, suggesting that Donetsk force are now seconded to Luhansk. This could mean either Russian do not have enough troop to take both at the same time and gave up on Donetsk, or they are trying to do it one at a time, but the latter is unlikely, as that grinding fight (First to Luchansk then Donetsk) would grind away the bulk of Russian force, even if they can take both region and taking the entire Donbas, the Russian would not have enough manpower and resource to hold it. As expected, situation didn't change much since Russia took Mariupol, which I will assume Russia also lost a great deal of manpower and equipment taking the city, thus making the South-North advance a moot point.

On the other hand, Ukrainian have 4 Brigade in the Area (roughly 20,000 men) facing the 60 BTG from Russia. The Ukrainian Brigade are positioned around Lysychansk and Sieverodonetsk, which is directly supporting the defence of Sieverodonetsk. Furthermore, Ukraine have another 5 or 6 Brigade (depends on whether or not they have raised a new one since I am gone) positioned between Kramatorsk and Sloviansk, which formed bulk of Eastern Ukraine defence, with Popasna and Lyman fallen, Ukrainian in the region are running a risk of being cut off and surrounded on both side, the gap between Lyman and Popansa is around 50km, Russian advance are judged at making around 1 or 2 km a day, which mean it would be weeks before a Russian Cordon can be realistically materialize, if at all possible. The key is to take Bakhmut-Lysychansk Highway (T-1302) with this highway open, Ukrainian have the option to continue to move supply into Sieverodonetsk, or pull back and join the force in Kramatorsk or Sloviansk. This highway is still in Ukrainian hand as of May 29. 

*So what to expect next?*






Kherson - Not much, Ukrainian will not make major push unless Eastern Offensive has been stabilised. Russian on the other hand, would not have enough manpower (estimate 20BTG in the area) to push, the Russian can't really reinforce the force in Kherson unless Donbas is conquered. And that could take a while, if at all possible.

Odessa - Low Intensity fight meant to keep Odessa on the back of its heel, but no real danger post to Odessa unless either Mykolaiv is fallen, or Russian Reinforce the Transnistria garrison.

Sieverodonetsk - Russia is piling EVERYTHING on Sieverodonetsk at this point, whether or not they can take the city is another issue, my best estimation is the Russian would be able to do it, but with a heavy cost. That really depends on how Ukraine want to use the 4 Brigade currently in the area. There are 3 possible way this can go

1.) Ukrainian leave the 4 Brigade in place, grinding it off with the 60 or so Russian BTG. That way Russia will win by sheer number, but it will blunt the attack, estimate the decimation of the 4 Brigade (similar to what happened to Mariupol) but it will also make up to 60% of those BTG combat ineffective. 

2.) Ukrainian pull a rear guard delay action. Let the city fall, but bit out chunk of Russian attacker with limited fighting and pull a what we in the Military called "Trading Ground with Pace" This way the bulk of Ukrainian force can be withdraw, but it will take time of Russia and more or less dent their offensive here and there.

3.) A complete Pull out of Sieverodonetsk, leave the city for the Russia, preserve all their force.

Looking at the topography in the area. The sensible thing to do is to do a Rear Guard Delay action, Seversky Donets river is a BUND line, which mean it will favor the defender and with more troop coming in from the ground, it will slow the attacker and maximize the defence effort however, this also work the other way when the Ukrainian launch their own counter offensive, if they do.

Elsewhere in Ukraine - I don't see much Russian advance in anywhere but Sieverodonetsk at the moment. The line (again, other than Sieverodonetsk) is Stretched very thin at the moment, any thinner I would have to say it will open to insurgency attack in the occupied area. Bear in mind this war is still on its active phase. I am not too sure if there are anything Russia can do in this current situation if Ukrainian started insurgency behind enemy line. The Russian then have to balance between the frontline soldier and the number of Occupational Force. Again, short of mobilising another group of Russian Troop, I don't see how they can rebalance the number. 

For the Russian, their goal is to take the entire Donbas, plus a land corridor between Russia and Transnistria, and we are still at the first part of Donbas campaign, meaning this would be months, if not years until Donbas operation is completed. That would seriously grind down Russian combat capability. 

On the other hand, Ukrainian probably have low to no chance to recover majority of their loss in a short run, the only logical way for them to move forward is to limit their loss, and then try to raise an active insurgency to force the Russian to give up those gain. Which is seems to be what the Ukrainian trying to do, they are playing the long game, grinding down Russian will to fight by a combine conventional effort and insurgency effort. How successful of this combine campaign is remain to be seen. I will probably report back when I am doing the 190 days in report in 3 months.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531330014687502336


----------



## beast89

small fringe movement?

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## A.P. Richelieu

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Why did they want a communist government?
> 
> Nobody in 1947 could know what South Korea would become in 2022. They could've ended up like any other number of 3rd world military dictatorships during the Cold War.


Based on the experience of communist governments a possible explanation is that they were uninformed.


----------



## PakFactor

Apollon said:


> Why invade? Its a worthless and dead country. At this point its enough to just kill them in ukraine.



Not worthless unless you cut the head they’ll keep coming back down the road best to do the needful to spare future generations a secure future regime change must be completed and bring democratic values to Russia. People will die but “the price is worth it” (Madeleine Albright).

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## F-22Raptor

Russian goals have gone from the capture of Kyiv, Kharkiv, Dnipro, Odesa in February to the tiny city of Severodonetsk that has little strategic or military value.


----------



## K_Bin_W

jamahir said:


> @Hassan Al-Somal, see why I expressed my surprise that the pro-NATO Hindutvadi government of India would send humanitarian assistance to Russia in Russia's war against NATO proxy Zelensky ? Those three tons were sent by not the government but by a private organization called "Russia-India Friendship Society Disha" which seems to be based in Moscow. Disha too seems tilted to Hindutvad by promoting Yoga, Ayurved and wait for it, "Ancient Vedic Science" in Russia  and had had no objection from the Indian government. OTOH look at Sammuel's source which says that Indian government sent *90 tons + 7.7 tons* of assistance including medicines to Ukraine. Where is 3 tons and where is 97 tons ? We can see where the Indian government tilts.
> 
> But the vice-president of Disha, Rati Kosinova, is cute  :


Bari cute kuri hey yeah.. who is she.

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## _Nabil_

jamahir said:


> Surprised to see Saudia and Morocco have people with positive views about Russia.


The opposite should surprise you, we are talking about the people, not the Cûcks regimes ....

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531378983987777537


----------



## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531378983987777537



Russians were expecting them, Ukrainian telegrams say. Lets see if they will decide to press on, or let Russians fall back.

It's very clear though what's the plan






It's also the only place where it's realistically possible to bridge Dnipro for the armour to bypass Kakhovka, or Kherson

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531355188669386752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531300775003140097

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531285857478615042

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531306591689007104

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## The SC

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531290282788106240




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531369246441320450

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531329598474043392


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531320928461901825

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531337682294546436


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## letsrock

A.P. Richelieu said:


> I am saying that a small clique of Koreans has no rights to select the government for all the Koreans.
> South Korea is now a fullblown democracy and North Korea is about as authoritarian as You can get.
> For South Korea this means job accomplished.
> How many North Koreans have a say in how the country should be governed?


no - you are saying that you fully support bombing villages of another nationality if you dont like how they govern themselves. Even if you dont respect those people on their race.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531299761625698306

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531278002297921536


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531370900205060097

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531163046730686464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531158527175462914

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531363740871966721

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531346123377545218

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531276722150203392

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531362919589502978

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531338113150291969

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## RoadAmerica

NotSure said:


> Yeah, because murican propaganda said so.


No because I’ve been paying attention, obviously you haven’t 🙄

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## _Nabil_

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531338113150291969


Nah, sanctions indeed do works, but in favour of Russia 😁

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## ckf

F-22Raptor said:


> Russian goals have gone from the capture of Kyiv, Kharkiv, Dnipro, Odesa in February to the tiny city of Severodonetsk that has little strategic or military value.


Not condoning the war, Putin definetely miscalculated at the start of the war. But Ukraine lost much of the East, and access to Sea of Azov as well as Most of the Black sea ports. Rather than cheering on this senseless proxy war and killings, peace should be priority for Ukraine civilians and soldiers. But your American maestros will have you to cheer on for the Killing Fields.

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## The SC

Ukrainian vehicle based on MT-LB was destroyed by a 152-mm laser-guided artillery shell in Kherson







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531127988988911619


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## A.P. Richelieu

letsrock said:


> no - you are saying that you fully support bombing villages of another nationality if you dont like how they govern themselves. Even if you dont respect those people on their race.


i am not saying any of that.
I fully support the right of self-defense and the right to wage war according to the Geneva Conventions.
If you think that the Geneva Conventions were violated, then you are welcome to provide evidence.
That involves proving that there was no information pointing to a target having a military value.

It is well known and documented that the North Koreans committed war crimes by executing civilians in Seoul.

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531337682294546436


This TV show is completely nuts. While some of the participants are talking about destroying the planet the others cant hide theyre laughing while thinking this is insane, and the host looks like shes licensed to kill anyone disagreeing with her.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531184905656446977
Forwarded from MoD Russia
_*⚡️*_*Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry* 

_*▫️*_The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine.

_*💥*_*High-precision air-based missiles *have hit* 2* command and control posts of AFU battalions, *1 *communications centre, as well as *34 *areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration.

_*💥✈️*_*Operational-tactical and army aviation *have hit* 3 *strong points and *67 *areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration.

_*▫️*_The attacks have resulted in the elimination of more than *320 *nationalists and *47 *weapons and military equipment.

_*▫️*_*Russian air defence* *means* have shot down *15* Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles near Severodonetsk, Novochervonoe, Vasilevka of the Lugansk People's Republic, Panteleimonovka, Grigorovka, Krasnovka, Nevelskoe of the Donetsk People's Republic, Petrapolie, Petrovskoe, Glinskoe of Kharkov Region, Chornobaevka and Aleksandrovka of Kherson Region.

_*▫️*_In addition, *9* Ukrainian Smerch multiple-launch rockets have been intercepted near Malaya Kamyshevakha, Kamenka, Brazhkovka, Glinskoe in Kharkov Region and Chernobaevka in Kherson Region.

_*💥*_*Missile troops and artillery *have hit *62* command posts, including those of Operational Command South near Novy Bug, Nikolaev Region, as well as *593* areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration and *55* artillery and mortar batteries at firing positions*.
*
_*💥*_*4* BM-21 Grad multiple-launch rocket launchers,* 46* Ukrainian weapons and military equipment, as well as* 1* ammunition depot near Novomikhailovka, Donetsk People's Republic, have been destroyed.

_*▫️*_In addition, more than *15* Ukrainian tanks and infantry fighting vehicles and* 5* large-calibre artillery mounts have been destroyed as a result of artillery strike on a hangar on the territory of Okean shipyard in Nikolaev city.

_*📊*_In total, *183* Ukrainian aircraft and *128* helicopters, *1,064* unmanned aerial vehicles, *325* anti-aircraft missile systems, *3,323* tanks and other armored combat vehicles,* 451* multiple launch rocket systems, *1,731* field artillery and mortars, as well as *3,294* units of special military vehicles were destroyed during the operation.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing
@mod_russia_en
****/levigodman/2766

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## Wergeland

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531337682294546436



How exactly dows she think Russia will manage to demilitarize NATO? Its a complete pipe dream.

Russian television broadcast seems to have some really good nutjobs in their ranks. Maybe we can send western nutjobs and Russian nutjobs to Bouvet Island, where they can do a good Hunger Game on eachother, so the rest of us can live in a peaceful world.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531183085995401216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531183089300414464


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## ckf

A.P. Richelieu said:


> i am not saying any of that.
> I fully support the right of self-defense and the right to wage war according to the Geneva Conventions.
> If you think that the Geneva Conventions were violated, then you are welcome to provide evidence.
> That involves proving that there was no information pointing to a target having a military value.
> 
> It is well known and documented that the North Koreans committed war crimes by executing civilians in Seoul.


What Geneva conventions, US has never cared for human rights, democratic governance and rights of other nations. US has attempted over 100 coups in democratic elected south America countries alone in the last century. Are you blind to Carpet bombing of Korea and Vietnam, civilian casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan? So North Koreas are Koreans as we all know, American have no right to Carpet bomb Koreans in Korea. North Korea and South Korea are newly prop up territories post WW2, and if they want to fight it out for self determination, its their prerogative. Last time I checked, Americans are not Koreans, the fact that America still has a base in Korea is an insult to the Korean people. You should also ask Okinawan's how they feel about the US bases on their land as well. If US truly honored democratic values and Geneva conventions, they should remove all their bases from Okinawa, and South Korea immediately.

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> Ukrainian vehicle based on MT-LB was destroyed by a 152-mm laser-guided artillery shell in Kherson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531127988988911619


Seems to me the guided missile just missed the target, but probably damaged the vehicle anyway.

The russian strike assessment must be really poor. Theyve spend weeks destroying that bridge by now. Keep that in mind when the russian MOD is making claims about the effectiveness of their missile strikes all over Ukraine.


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## Type59

MeFishToo said:


> Seems to me the guided missile just missed the target, but probably damaged the vehicle anyway.
> 
> The russian strike assessment must be really poor. Theyve spend weeks destroying that bridge by now. Keep that in mind when the russian MOD is making claims about the effectiveness of their missile strikes all over Ukraine.


There were soldiers outside vehicle.


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## wahhab0202

Apollon said:


> Why invade? Its a worthless and dead country. At this point its enough to just kill them in ukraine.


Worthless and dead country?? WTF. Having one of the hugest hydrocarbon reserve in the world, precious metal for industries and largest arable land mass, Russia is the last place to call worthless. In fact, if they Russia no nuclear in their arsenal, NATO will make feast on Russia's flesh and blood.

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## RoadAmerica

jamahir said:


> Surprised to see Saudia and Morocco have people with positive views about Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> Sources for these news items please. And about railways there was one train that got derailed because of landslide on the tracks and NATO press immediately declared "Ukraine resistance in ebeel Russia !", LOL.
> 
> 
> 
> You denigrate them but I thought Europe was a "liberal democracy" where people are listened to.
> 
> 
> 
> We have discussed this before. Russia was once the USSR, an advanced society with much experience in space operations including and in computing and other technologies. Now too. Better for Europe to have educational, cultural and technological ties with Russia than the one playing you Europeans - USA government.


Russia will never be a technical leader again, just look they need chips from stollen Ukraine dish washers 🤣
The west doesn’t benefit from relations with Russia while Putin is around


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531263753433538561


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## RoadAmerica

wahhab0202 said:


> Worthless and dead country?? WTF. Having one of the hugest hydrocarbon reserve in the world, precious metal for industries and largest arable land mass, Russia is the last place to call worthless. In fact, if they Russia no nuclear in their arsenal, NATO will make feast on Russia's flesh and blood.


🤣 another one living some diluted fairytale. Not everyone wants to conquer 🙄

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## The SC

RoadAmerica said:


> Russia will never be a technical leader again, just look they need chips from stollen Ukraine dish washers 🤣
> The west doesn’t benefit from relations with Russia while Putin is around


Russia is more technologically advanced than the US in Hypersonic cruise missiles.. it is a fact no one can deny.. what are you talking about.. or should I remind you of who went to space first in this world.. if you don't know.. just google Sputnik and Yuri Gagarin..

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531121909361958913

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## letsrock

A.P. Richelieu said:


> i am not saying any of that.
> I fully support the right of self-defense and the right to wage war according to the Geneva Conventions.
> If you think that the Geneva Conventions were violated, then you are welcome to provide evidence.
> That involves proving that there was no information pointing to a target having a military value.
> 
> It is well known and documented that the North Koreans committed war crimes by executing civilians in Seoul.



lol - what self defense for nato to bomb korea - korea is like thousands of kilometers away. you are just leaping from one gymnast to another one.

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## RoadAmerica

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531285857478615042
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531306591689007104


🥱


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## F-22Raptor

The SC said:


> Russia is more technologically advanced than the US in Hypersonic cruise missiles.. it is a fact no one can deny.. what are you talking about.. or should I remind you of who went to space first in this world.. if you don't know.. just google Sputnik and Yuri Gagarin..



No, no it’s not. 

And the US assesses Russian missile effectiveness in Ukraine at under 40%.

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## RoadAmerica

ckf said:


> Not condoning the war, Putin definetely miscalculated at the start of the war. But Ukraine lost much of the East, and access to Sea of Azov as well as Most of the Black sea ports. Rather than cheering on this senseless proxy war and killings, peace should be priority for Ukraine civilians and soldiers. But your American maestros will have you to cheer on for the Killing Fields.


Not Americas war bro, this has been Europe’s in the making for 20 years.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531410076560400386

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531405655944347649

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531358645421744129

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## Corax

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531355188669386752
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531300775003140097



Godamn Russians are crazy!


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531271491597262849

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531270010093637637

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531265591155347457


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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MAY 28​May 28, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF

*Frederick W. Kagan, Kateryna Stepanenko, and George Barros
May 28, 7:30pm ET*​*Russian President Vladimir Putin is inflicting unspeakable suffering on Ukrainians and demanding horrible sacrifices of his own people in an effort to seize a city that does not merit the cost, even for him.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine that aimed to seize and occupy the entire country has become a desperate and bloody offensive to capture a single city in the east while defending important but limited gains in the south and east. *Ukraine has twice forced Putin to define down his military objectives. Ukraine defeated Russia in the Battle of Kyiv, forcing Putin to reduce his subsequent military objectives to seizing Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts in eastern Ukraine. Ukraine stopped him from achieving that aim as well, forcing him to focus on completing the seizure of Luhansk Oblast alone. Putin is now hurling men and munitions at the last remaining major population center in that oblast, Severodonetsk, as if taking it would win the war for the Kremlin. He is wrong. *When the Battle of Severodonetsk ends, regardless of which side holds the city, the Russian offensive at the operational and strategic levels will likely have culminated, giving Ukraine the chance to restart its operational-level counteroffensives to push Russian forces back.
Russian forces are assaulting Severdonetsk even though they have not yet encircled it.* They are making territorial gains and may succeed in taking the city and areas further west. The Ukrainian military is facing the most serious challenge it has encountered since the isolation of the Azovstal Plant in Mariupol and may well suffer a significant tactical defeat in the coming days if Severodonetsk falls, although such an outcome is by no means certain, and the Russian attacks may well stall again.
*The Russians are paying a price for their current tactical success that is out of proportion to any real operational or strategic benefit they can hope to receive. *Severodonetsk itself is important at this stage in the war primarily because it is the last significant population center in Luhansk Oblast that the Russians do not control. Seizing it will let Moscow declare that it has secured Luhansk Oblast fully but will give Russia no other significant military or economic benefit. This is especially true because Russian forces are destroying the city as they assault it and will control its rubble if they capture it. Taking Severodonetsk can open a Russian ground line of communication (GLOC) to support operations to the west, but the Russians have failed to secure much more advantageous GLOCs from Izyum partly because they have concentrated so much on Severodonetsk.
*The Russians continue to make extremely limited progress in their efforts to gain control of the unoccupied areas of Donetsk Oblast, meanwhile. *Russian troops have struggled to penetrate the pre-February 24 line of contact for weeks, while Russian offensive operations from Izyum to the south remain largely stalled. The seizure of Severodonetsk could only assist in the conquest of the rest of Donetsk Oblast if it gave the Russians momentum on which to build successive operations, but the Battle of Severdonetsk will most likely preclude continued large-scale Russian offensive operations.
*Russian progress around Severdonetsk results largely from the fact that Moscow has concentrated forces, equipment, and materiel drawn from all other axes on this one objective. *Russian troops have been unable to make progress on any other axes for weeks and have largely not even tried to do so. Ukrainian defenders have inflicted fearful casualties on the Russian attackers around Severodonetsk even so. Moscow will not be able to recoup large amounts of effective combat power even if it seizes Severdonetsk, because it is expending that combat power frivolously on taking the city.
*Ukrainian forces are also suffering serious losses in the Battle of Severodonetsk, as are Ukrainian civilians and infrastructure. *The Russians have concentrated a much higher proportion of their available offensive combat power to take Severodonetsk than the Ukrainians, however, shaping the attrition gradient generally in Kyiv’s favor. The Ukrainians continue to receive supplies and materiel from their allies as well, however slow and limited that flow may be. The Russians, in contrast, continue to manifest clear signs that they are burning through their available reserves of manpower and materiel with no reason to expect relief in the coming months.
*Evidence of eroding military professionalism in the Russian officer corps is mounting. *The Ukrainian Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported that Russian commanders are attempting to preserve military equipment by forbidding drivers from evacuating wounded servicemen or providing supplies to units that have advanced too far.*[1]* Refusing to risk equipment to evacuate wounded personnel on the battlefield—other than in extraordinary circumstances—is a remarkable violation of core principles of military professionalism. Such behavior can have serious impacts on morale and the willingness of soldiers to fight and risk getting injured beyond their own defensive lines. ISW cannot independently confirm the GUR’s report, but commentary by Russian milbloggers offers some circumstantial support for it. Russian milblogger Alexander Zhychkovskiy criticized the Russian military command’s disregard for reservists on the deprioritized Zaporizhia Oblast front. Zhychkovskiy reported that Russian commanders trapped lightly-equipped infantry units in areas of intense Ukrainian artillery fire without significant artillery support and did not rotate other units through those areas to relieve them.[2] Zhychkovskiy noted that Russian commanders are responsible for high losses and cases of insanity among servicemen. Another milblogger, Alexander Khodarkovsky, said that Russian commanders are not sending reinforcements in a timely matter, preventing Russian forces from resting between ground assaults.[3]
*Waning professionalism among Russia’s officers could present Ukrainian forces with opportunities. *Russian morale, already low, may drop further if such behavior is widespread and continues. If Russian troops stuck on secondary axes lose their will to fight as the Battle for Severdonetsk consumes much of the available Russian offensive combat power, Ukraine may have a chance to launch significant counteroffensives with good prospects for success. That prospect is uncertain, and Ukraine may not have the ability to take advantage of an opportunity even if it presents itself, but the current pattern of Russian operations is generating serious vulnerabilities that Kyiv will likely attempt to exploit.
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces pressed the ground assault on Severodonetsk and its environs, making limited gains.*
*Russian forces in Kharkiv continue to focus efforts on preventing a Ukrainian counteroffensive from reaching the international border between Kharkiv and Belgorod.*
*Ukrainian forces began a counteroffensive near the Kherson-Mykolaiv oblast border approximately 70 km to the northeast of Kherson City that may have crossed the Inhulets River.*
*Russia’s use of stored T-62 tanks in the southern axis indicates Russia’s continued materiel and force generation problems.*
*Ukrainian partisan activity continues to impose costs on Russian occupation forces in Kherson and Zaporizhia oblasts.*



*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.
ISW has updated its assessment of the four primary efforts Russian forces are engaged in at this time. We have stopped coverage of Mariupol as a separate effort since the city’s fall. We had added a new section on activities in Russian-occupied areas:*

Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces unsuccessfully attempted an offensive operation southeast of Izyum, likely in an effort to advance toward Slovyansk or Siversk. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces retreated after attempting to advance to Pasika, approximately 20 km southeast of Izyum.[4] Russian Telegram channels reported that Russian forces successfully seized Pasika on May 28, but ISW cannot independently confirm this claim.[5] Russian forces did not attempt to advance directly south of Izyum and are likely prioritizing an advance north of Lyman.[6] The Ukrainian General Staff also noted that Russian forces continued launching air and artillery strikes on settlements near Siversk, approximately 30 km west of Severodonetsk.[7] Russian forces from Izyum may join units in Lyman to conduct an offensive on Siversk or pursue a separate drive on Slovyansk. Russian forces are also reportedly transferring additional artillery and military equipment via Kupyansk, approximately 40 km west of the Russia-Kharkiv Oblast border.[8]



Russian forces continued ground assaults on Severodonetsk’s northern neighborhoods and have not fully encircled the city from the west. Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai reported that Russian forces seized a hotel and advanced to Severodonetsk’s bus terminal on May 27 and continued fighting with Ukrainian defenders in the area on May 28.[9] Haidai stressed that Russian forces have not isolated the city, despite damaging a bridge along the Lysychansk-Severodonetsk road.[10] Haidai indicated that Ukrainian forces may withdraw from the area to avoid getting surrounded.[11] Pro-Russian milblogger Alexander Sladkov (who has 850,000 followers) criticized Russian military commanders for beginning the Battle of Severodonetsk before fully encircling Ukrainian troops.[12] Sladkov also criticized the lack of coherent offensive tactics among Russian commanders, despite their successes around Lyman.
Russian forces launched ground assaults west and east of Popasna but did not gain access to the Lysychansk-Bakhmut nor the Lysychansk-Hirske highway. Russian Telegram channels reported that fighting continued over Komyushuvakha, approximately 8 km east of Popasna, with the aim of allowing the Russians to launch an offensive on Zolote and secure the T1303 highway to Lysychansk.[13] Haidai reported that Ukrainian forces secured positions in a settlement along the T1303 highway, likely to hinder the Russian drive on Severodonetsk.[14] Haidai also noted that Russian forces have yet to seize the T1302 highway from Bakhmut to Lysychansk despite repeated attempts to secure the road from positions northeast of Popasna.[15] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces attempted to advance toward Bakhmut from settlements approximately 25 km southwest of Popasna.[16] Russian forces will likely continue offensive operations on Bakhmut as well as the T1302 and T1303 highways to isolate Ukrainian forces in the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area.
Russian forces did not conduct offensive operations in western Donetsk Oblast on May 28. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces continued shelling near Avdiivka.[17] The Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) claimed to have advanced by 1.5 km in the Avdiivka area, but ISW cannot independently confirm this claim.[18]



*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces did not conduct offensive operations north of Kharkiv City but continued to maintain their positions along the Ukrainian-Russian border on May 28. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian engineering elements improved their positions near Kozacha Lopan, approximately 36 km northwest of Kharkiv City.[19] Russian forces continued to shell Kharkiv City and settlements to its north.[20] Russian forces are likely maintaining their positions in the area to defend Belgorod City from Ukrainian artillery. Russian milblogger and former Russian proxy commander Igor Girkin (also known as Igor Strelkov) noted that Russian forces rely on "old-fashioned methods” such as artillery to defend the Ukrainian-Russian border instead of more-effective drones.[21]



*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporozhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Ukrainian forces reportedly launched a counteroffensive in northern Kherson Oblast on May 28. The Ukrainian General Staff issued a vague report that Ukrainian defenders pushed Russian forces to “unfavorable borders” in three settlements along the Mykolaiv-Kherson Oblast border, approximately 70 km northeast of Kherson City.[22] Ukrainian military sources did not specify if Ukrainian forces liberated any occupied settlements. The Ukrainian General Staff’s report may support unconfirmed social media reports that Ukrainian forces crossed the Inhulets River on May 27, as the three villages are located on the eastern bank of the river.[23]
Russian forces continued to fortify and equip their positions throughout southern Ukraine in an effort to retain permanent control over the territory. Zaporizhia Oblast Administration Head Oleksandr Starukh reported that Russian forces have accumulated a large number of old T-62 tanks in Melitopol since withdrawing them from storage on May 25.[24] Starukh noted that Russian forces will commit the tanks to stationary firing points in Zaporizhia Oblast, rather than committing the obsolescent tanks to combat in the oblast. The Ukrainian General Staff stated that Russian forces are replenishing equipment losses with T-62s in northern Kherson Oblast, however, despite the tank’s vulnerabilities in modern warfare.[25] Russian forces continued to increase air defense systems in southern Ukraine.[26]



*Activity in Russian-occupied areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
The Zaporizhia Oblast Military Administration reported that Russian forces converted a Melitopol police station into an office of “People’s Militia” with 35 collaborators.[27] The Zaporizhia Oblast Military Administration also reported that fully-armed Russian servicemen broke into two universities in Melitopol and demanded that professors reapply for their positions under the occupation regime or resign.[28] Russian forces are likely aware of their lack of control over occupied Kherson and Zaporizhia oblasts and fear Ukrainian civil resistance. Russian forces closed all Kherson Oblast borders near Ukrainian-controlled territories on May 28, possibly in anticipation of Ukrainian counterattacks or partisan activity.[29] The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported that a new Russian collaborationist and mayor of Enerhodar, Ruslan Kirpichev, fortified the entrance to his apartment due to rising partisan activity. The Ukrainian Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported that Russian commanders stationed their personnel in a penal colony in Kherson Oblast.[30]
Russian forces likely intend to loot occupied industrial sectors in Mariupol and Zaporizhia Oblast. Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) Head Denis Pushilin reported that occupation forces will not repair Azovstal Steel Plant for ecological reasons on May 28.[31] Russian forces began exporting metal from Mariupol Port to Russia.[32] Pushilin noted that the Azovmash machine-building plant will resume its operations, even though the plant has faced severe financial problems for over ten years and is unlikely to generate profit. The Zaporizhia Oblast Military Administration reported that Russian forces just began to operate the spare tractor parts plant in Melitopol after confiscating it from the rightful owner.[33]

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MAY 30​May 30, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF
*
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, May 30
Karolina Hird, Mason Clark, and George Barros
May 30, 3:30pm ET*​*Mounting casualties among Russian junior officers will likely further degrade Russian capabilities and lead to further morale breakdowns. *The UK Ministry of Defense stated on May 30 that Russian forces have suffered devastating losses amongst mid and junior ranking officers. The UK MoD reported that battalion and brigade level officers continue to deploy forwards and into harm's way—rather than commanding from rear areas and delegating to lower-ranking officers—due to senior Russian officers holding them to an “uncompromising level of responsibility” for their units.[1] The British Defense Ministry further reported that junior officers are in charge of low-level tactical operations due to a lack of professionalism and modernization within the Russian Armed Forces and that the continued losses of these junior officers will complicate command and control efforts, particularly in Battalion Tactical Groups (BTGs) cobbled together from the survivors of multiple other units.[2] ISW previously assessed that continued demoralization and poor command and control among Russian forces could present Ukrainian forces opportunities to conduct prudent counteroffensives, particularly as the Russian military continues to pour resources into the battle of Severodonetsk at the cost of other lines of effort.
*Domestic dissent within Russian military circles, claiming that the Kremlin is not doing enough to win the war, continues to grow. *Former Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) officer Igor Girkin (also known as Strelkov) condemned Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov’s statements about the priority of the “special operation” in Ukraine being the liberation of the Donbas.[3] Girkin claimed that the Kremlin has forgone the ideological underpinnings of the conflict by focusing the conflict on the Donbas, rather than the entirety of Ukraine. Girkin complained that Kremlin officials are no longer questioning the legitimacy of the existence of Ukraine and that the concepts of “denazification” and “demilitarization” have been forgotten. Girkin accused the Kremlin of appeasement policies and stated that the threat of defeat continues to grow.
Girkin’s dissent is emblematic of continued shifts within circles of Russian military enthusiasts and ex-servicemen. As ISW has previously reported, the Kremlin has repeatedly revised its objectives for the war in Ukraine downwards due to battlefield failures. The Kremlin is increasingly facing discontent not from Russians opposed to the war as a whole, but military and nationalist figures angry at Russian losses and frustrated with shifting Kremlin framing of the war. Russian officials are increasingly unable to employ the same ideological justifications for the invasion in the face of clear setbacks, and a lack of concrete military gains within Ukraine will continue to foment domestic dissatisfaction with the war.
*Key Takeaways*

Russian forces continued to incrementally capture areas of Severodonetsk but have not yet fully encircled the city.
Russian forces focused on regrouping near Izyum to renew offensives towards Slovyansk and Barvinkove and conducted only minor, unsuccessful, attacks. Russian forces are making incremental advances towards Slovyansk and seek to assault the city itself in the coming weeks, but are unlikely to achieve decisive gains.
Russian forces in Kharkiv continue to focus efforts on preventing a Ukrainian counteroffensive from reaching the international border between Kharkiv and Belgorod, and Ukrainian forces have not conducted any significant operations in the area in recent days.
The limited Ukrainian counterattack in northern Kherson Oblast did not take any further ground in the last 48 hours but has disrupted Russian operations. Russian forces launched several unsuccessful attacks against the Ukrainian bridgehead on the east bank of the Inhulets River.
Mounting casualties among Russian junior officers will further degrade Russian morale and command and control capabilities.
*

*
*
We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.
ISW has updated its assessment of the four primary efforts Russian forces are engaged in at this time. We have stopped coverage of Mariupol as a separate effort since the city’s fall. We had added a new section on activities in Russian-occupied areas:*

Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate main effort- Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
Supporting effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting effort 2—Southern axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces focused on regrouping near Izyum to renew offensives towards Slovyansk and Barvinkove on May 30 and conducted only minor, unsuccessful, attacks.[4] Russian troops reportedly conducted an unsuccessful assault on Kurulka, about 30 kilometers south of Izyum.[5] The Ukrainian General Staff noted that Russian forces deployed a squadron of Ka-52 helicopters to the area to provide air defense, and reported Russian troops have moved over 250 units of (unspecified) weaponry and equipment to the area to replenish their force grouping around Izyum.[6] The Ukrainian General Staff also reported that Russian forces have rebuilt a railway bridge near Kupyansk to facilitate the movement of troops and equipment in the area.[7]
The ongoing replenishment of troops in the Izyum area and persistent attempts to advance to the southeast indicates Russian forces are likely reprioritizing attempts to advance towards Slovyansk, though they are increasingly attempting to simultaneously advance from two directions - southeast from Izyum and west from Lyman. Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) troops claimed to capture Staryi Karavan and Dibrova, both between Lyman and Slovyansk, on May 30.[8] Russian Telegram channels additionally reported fighting in Raihorodok, 6 kilometers northeast of Slovyansk.[9] Russian forces are making incremental advances towards Slovyansk and seek to assault the city itself in the coming weeks. However, Russian advances remain limited and are unlikely to increase in pace in the near term, particularly as Russian forces continue to prioritize assaults on Severodonetsk at the cost of other lines of effort.
Russian forces continued ground assaults in and around Severodonetsk on May 30.[10] Russian forces reportedly control the northeast and southeast outskirts of the city and are continuing to gain ground within the city.[11] Ukrainian and Russian sources reported ongoing fighting to the south of Severodonetsk in Toshkivka, Ustynivka, Voronove, Borivske, and Metolkine, as Russian forces continue efforts to complete the encirclement of Severodonetsk from the south.[12] Russian forces are reportedly transferring large quantities of personnel and equipment to the area to strengthen operations against Severodonetsk.[13] A Russian Telegram channel claimed that Russian forces control the entire southern bank of the Siverskyi Donets River, except for the part of the river than runs through Severodonetsk.[14] ISW cannot independently confirm this claim, though it is consistent with previous reporting on persistent, incremental Russian advances in and around the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area.
Russian forces continued assault operations to the east of Bakhmut with the intention of severing Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) northeast of Bakhmut.[15] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are fighting in Komyshuvakha, Novoluhanske, and Berestov, all settlements ranging from the northeast to southeast of Bakhmut.[16] Russian forces will likely continue to focus on pushing towards GLOCS northeast of Bakhmut and are unlikely to attempt to capture the city itself.








*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces fired on Ukrainian positions north of Kharkiv City and did not make any confirmed advances on May 30.[17] Russian forces conducted MLRS and artillery strikes against Odnorobivka, Udy, Ruski Tyshky, Cherkasy Tyshky, Ruska Lozova, Pitomnyk, Borshchova, Peremoha, Tsyrkuny, Shestakove, and the Kyivskyi District of Kharkiv City.[18] The Ukrainian General Staff stated that the goal of these artillery attacks is to deter further Ukrainian advances towards the international border.[19]




*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporozhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces focused on recapturing positions taken by previous Ukrainian counterattacks and shelling forward targets to prevent further Ukrainian counteroffensive actions on May 30.[20] The Ukrainian General Staff and Southern Operational Command both reported that Russian troops are replenishing equipment and regrouping forces in Kherson Oblast to strengthen their existing defensive lines against Ukrainian gains made during limited Ukrainian counteroffensives on May 28.[21] Russian Telegram channels provided further confirmation of limited and localized Ukrainian gains in Kherson and stated that Russian forces are fighting to dislodge a Ukrainian bridgehead on the left bank (east side) of the Inhulets River, as ISW assessed on May 29.[22] Ukrainian forces have not made any confirmed advances since May 28, and the Ukrainian counteroffensive in northern Kherson Oblast is likely a localized operation to disrupt Russian frontline positions, rather than a wider counteroffensive to recapture large areas of terrain.
Russian forces conducted artillery strikes against Kherson, Dnipropetrovsk, Mykolaiv, and Dnipropetrovsk Oblasts and a missile strike against a previously-destroyed bridge in Odesa.[23] These sporadic strikes are unlikely to significantly disrupt Ukrainian logistics. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported that an unidentified partisan detonated an IED in Melitopol near the residence of the Russian-appointed Mayor of Zaporizhia Eugene Balitsky.[24] Partisan activity in occupied territories likely continues to disrupt Russian administrative activities in these areas.




*Activity in Russian-occupied areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian occupation forces continued efforts to exert bureaucratic control in occupied areas but did not make any significant changes on May 30.

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## RoadAmerica

The SC said:


> Russia is more technologically advanced than the US in Hypersonic cruise missiles.. it is a fact no one can deny.. what are you talking about.. or should I remind you of who went to space first in this world.. if you don't know.. just google Sputnik and Yuri Gagarin..


And this is present time, how many industries does Russia lead in? Wow hypersonic just like the pakfa, best stealth fighter ever per the Russians 🥱



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531271491597262849
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531270010093637637
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531265591155347457


Oooh here we go more hypersonic hype. Russians Kia is up to how many 20k+? Man those hypersonics are sure helping

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531392315620745217

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531388954464993281

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531388954464993281

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531378938534105105

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## ckf

RoadAmerica said:


> Not Americas war bro, this has been Europe’s in the making for 20 years.


Bro, much of the world already see this as America's proxy war. Tucker Carlson nightly calls out democrats for funding this Proxy war. Ukraine is bankrupt, and US contributed almost 55 billion this year. 6 billion a month in weapons, and financial aid. Ukraine needs 5 billion for civil administration/pensions just to feed its population. Army needs another 5 billion a month to fight the war. So around 9 -10 billion a month. US is financially bank rolling this war. Senator Rand Paul asked for supervision for the recent 40 billion Aid, and Democrats cram down the Senate. So this is very much shaping up to be Joe Biden's Coup de tat. In contrast Europe is only providing 1.5 billion a month so far. Why is America so anxious to flush USD to Zelensky and his cronies? We will see how long American taxpayers are willing to put up with this since midterm election coming soon. Canada is sending $500 million aid this year, so my fck taxes are funding zelensky and his cronies while our cost skyrocket. We are seeing $8.50 cad a gallon or $2.30 a liter where I am.


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## Nuclear Clown

MeFishToo said:


> This TV show is completely nuts. While some of the participants are talking about destroying the planet the others cant hide theyre laughing while thinking this is insane, and the host looks like shes licensed to kill anyone disagreeing with her.


This is "60 minutes", the most watched TV-show on Rossiya-1 state owned TV.
The host is Olga Skabeeva, nicknamed "Putin's Iron Doll"
In fact, it's psy ops to make western population afraid and push public opinion into stop supporting Ukraine...
Which is absolutely disastrous understanding of Western psychology : this just reinforces our resolve !!!!



ckf said:


> Bro, much of the world already see this as America's proxy war. Tucker Carlson nightly calls out democrats for funding this Proxy war. Ukraine is bankrupt, and US contributed almost 55 billion this year. 6 billion a month in weapons, and financial aid. Ukraine needs 5 billion for civil administration/pensions just to feed its population. Army needs another 5 billion a month to fight the war. So around 9 -10 billion a month. US is financially bank rolling this war. Senator Rand Paul asked for supervision for the recent 40 billion Aid, and Democrats cram down the Senate. So this is very much shaping up to be Joe Biden's Coup de tat. In contrast Europe is only providing 1.5 billion a month so far. Why is America so anxious to flush USD to Zelensky and his cronies? We will see how long American taxpayers are willing to put up with this since midterm election coming soon. Canada is sending $500 million aid this year, so my fck taxes are funding zelensky and his cronies while our cost skyrocket.


Tucker Carlson?  
And why not Groucho Marx or Mel Brooks?


----------



## ckf

Raffie said:


> This is "60 minutes", the most watched TV-show on Rossiya-1 state owned TV.
> The host is Olga Skabeeva, nicknamed "Putin's Iron Doll"
> In fact, it's psy ops to make western population afraid and push public opinion into stop supporting Ukraine...
> Which is absolutely disastrous understanding of Western psychology : this just reinforces our resolve !!!!
> 
> 
> Tucker Carlson?
> And why not Groucho Marx or Mel Brooks?


Yeah Grandpa, Marx or Brooks or whatever blah blah...

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## Nuclear Clown

Wergeland said:


> How exactly dows she think Russia will manage to demilitarize NATO? Its a complete pipe dream.
> Russian television broadcast seems to have some really good nutjobs in their ranks. Maybe we can send western nutjobs and Russian nutjobs to Bouvet Island, where they can do a good Hunger Game on eachother, so the rest of us can live in a peaceful world.


I think we can send them Tucker Carlson, Viktor Orban and Marine Le Pen.
Le Pen is already sued in 6 cases, mainly for embezzlements, and a new report from the *OLAF* may just _*add to the festivities*_... Well, if things go bad, she may request a political refugee status in Russia: Putin's bank has already arranged loans to fund several of her electoral campaigns...




She'll be able to pose as being the victim of EU persecutions and here dad too.
Putin may even end choosing her as heir apparent, they're definitively from the same breed.


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## RoadAmerica

ckf said:


> Bro, much of the world already see this as America's proxy war. Tucker Carlson nightly calls out democrats for funding this Proxy war. Ukraine is bankrupt, and US contributed almost 55 billion this year. 6 billion a month in weapons, and financial aid. Ukraine needs 5 billion for civil administration/pensions just to feed its population. Army needs another 5 billion a month to fight the war. So around 9 -10 billion a month. US is financially bank rolling this war. Senator Rand Paul asked for supervision for the recent 40 billion Aid, and Democrats cram down the Senate. So this is very much shaping up to be Joe Biden's Coup de tat. In contrast Europe is only providing 1.5 billion a month so far. Why is America so anxious to flush USD to Zelensky and his cronies? We will see how long American taxpayers are willing to put up with this since midterm election coming soon. Canada is sending $500 million aid this year, so my fck taxes are funding zelensky and his cronies while our cost skyrocket.


America might be the one paying for a majority of it, but it’s the occurrences in Europe’s backyard for 20 years that has led up and caused this war I wish America wasn’t paying for it but I sure won’t be blamed for Russians killing Ukraine financed by Europe’s lust for cheap energy. I’m sure you’ll gloss over facts and say “but it’s americas fault”


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## Nuclear Clown

Corax said:


> Godamn Russians are crazy!


Not the most insane pilots : some like to go lower and faster...

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## ckf

RoadAmerica said:


> America might be the one paying for a majority of it, but it’s the occurrences in Europe’s backyard for 20 years that has led up and caused this war I wish America wasn’t paying for it but I sure won’t be blamed for Russians killing Ukraine financed by Europe’s lust for cheap energy. I’m sure you’ll gloss over facts and say “but it’s americas fault”


Americans should be outraged that Biden cares more for Ukraine territorial dispute with Russia in an area with predominantly Russian speakers, than American mother without baby formula, and American families that have to deal with $6 a gallon gas prices as well as historic high inflation rates above 8%. If this is an European issue, Europe should step up and pay for the war, so why is Biden financing this war again? If EU is spending 45 billion to finance this war, then I will definetely say it's not america's fault and I will defend it to the teeth.

Also US has long interest in Ukraine since 2014, US military aid topped $2.5 billion since 2014 prior to the war to fund Ukraine's aspiration to NATO, which spark this war. Ukraine military and civilian institution has long been infiltrated by American interest. Ukraine ranks 122/180 countries in corruption according to transparency international. I am sure Zelensky got fistful of dollars stashed away in the caymans. Oh, he does. 









Pandora Papers Reveal Offshore Holdings of Ukrainian President and his Inner Circle - OCCRP


Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky rode to power on pledges to clean up the Eastern European country, but the Pandora Papers reveal he and his close circle were the beneficiaries of a network o...




www.occrp.org












The futility of U.S. military aid and NATO aspirations for Ukraine — Defense Priorities







www.defensepriorities.org












Corruption in Ukraine - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## Nuclear Clown

RoadAmerica said:


> America might be the one paying for a majority of it, but it’s the occurrences in Europe’s backyard for 20 years that has led up and caused this war I wish America wasn’t paying for it but I sure won’t be blamed for Russians killing Ukraine financed by Europe’s lust for cheap energy. I’m sure you’ll gloss over facts and say “but it’s americas fault”


Energy is cheaper in the USA than in Europe before the recent crises...
You surely know who Vickie Nuland is?
You should well listen to this : 




Usually, we do well with the Russian as long as Uncle Sam doesn't interferes... and Fattie Vickie avoids her shenanigans... 
You definitively don't want me to explain the little game they played at the DoS herein, HRC and Kerry have made a total mess, they ruined 23 years of well crafted job at petting Russia to side with the West just because of a short sighted policy named "Global Energy Dominance".
I'd strongly advise Blinken to read what Otto von Bismark wrote about the relations with Russia, that's the way to go : any other method and you end with a total mess and and it's a non zero-sum game, except it's not a win-win, it's a lose-lose.
You should watch Ridley Scott's Body of Lies : your DoS acts exactly the same way as Ed Hoffman (Russell Crowe), but at a macro-level... 

Now Putler's acts are intolerable and he has to be stopped, but I can tell you that the Biden/Bojo diplomatic gaffes have created an even worse situation.


----------



## SalarHaqq

Corax said:


> Perhaps you didn't read my post....I know there are neo-Nazis in Russia, as there are in Ukraine. Like I've said before, this is a Slavic civil war between one bunch of Slavic neo-Nazis, and another bunch.



The Ukrainian regime itself has neo-Nazi leanings and Nazi sympathizers in its midst, the Russian government does not. In fact, it is part of NATO and zionist propaganda to try to suggest there is no difference between the two states in this regard. But this is a fallacy, and quite a preposterous one at that.

In 2016, the city of Kiev renamed a major avenue to honor Stepan Bandera, local WW2 collaborator of Nazi Germany:

_____

Kiev renames major street to honor Russian Nazi collaborator​Stepan Bandera’s nationalist group urged Ukranians to ‘destroy’ Jews and Poles in the 1940s​By Agencies and TOI staff
7 July 2016, 10:03 pm 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/kiev-renames-major-street-to-honor-russian-nazi-collaborator/

____

According to some, the above information represents "Kremlin propaganda". I wasn't aware that the "Times of Israel" is a mouthpiece for the Russian presidency, nor that "Google Earth" and basically every company producing maps of Kiev is controlled by the latter.

Now, could you point me to an equivalent to this anywhere in Russia? This is as if the city of Moscow named a street in the center of town after Bronislav Kaminski - simply unthinkable.

Here we can see officials at the Kiev City Council - who aren't members to any neo-Nazi group, chant "Our father is Bandera":


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500477006030733315
Citation this fact too was brushed off "Kremlin propaganda". It's visibly as genuine as it gets though. And again, nothing like this would be even remotely possible at the Moscow municipality.

The Ukrainian ambassador to Germany of all places, Andrei Melnyk, declared having laid a bouquet of flowers at the grave of Stepan Bandera, whom he referred to as "our hero". Any Russian diplomat on the record for praising a Nazi collaborator? Negative.

https://detv.us/2022/03/16/stop-demonizing-the-azov-regiment-rt-en/

Below that, the user linked a tweet by Melnyk from 2015. In it, Melnyk referred to a visit to the grave of Ukrainian fascist and anti-Semite Stephan Bandera, whom he honored with a bouquet of flowers. Melnyk wrote at the time:

“At the beginning of my visit to Munich, I met representatives of the UKR and laid flowers at the grave of our hero Stepan Bandera.”

Furthermore, the Great Patriotic War as WW2 Soviet defense against national-socialist Germany is referred to in Russia, is cultivated and upheld in the collective memory of Russian people by authorities in Moscow. Along with the original anti-fascist doctrine coined by Josef Stalin, it occupies a central place in the formulation of national identity in modern Russia, and constitutes a centerpiece of Russian political culture.

Some academic publications on the topic:

*C. McDaniel, Russia’s Proud Past and Patriotic Identity: A Case Study of Historical Accounts in Contemporary Russian History Textbooks. Modern Languages Open, 2018, (1) 26, pp. 1–33.*
https://www.modernlanguagesopen.org/articles/10.3828/mlo.v0i0.239/galley/303/download/

*Vera Tolz, Forging the Nation: National Identity and Nation Building in Post-Communist Russia, Europe-Asia Studies, 1998, Vol. 50, No. 6, pp. 993-1022. * https://www.jstor.org/stable/154053

*E.A. Wood, Performing Memory: Vladimir Putin and the celebration of World War II in Russia, Soviet and Post Soviet Review, 2011, 38 (2), pp. 172-200. *




__





Google Scholar







scholar.google.com





*S. Bernstein, Remembering War, Remaining Soviet: Digital Commemoration of World War II in Putin’s Russia, Memory Studies, 2016, 9 (4), pp. 422-436. *




__





Google Scholar







scholar.google.com





*E.F. Krinko, Modern Russian Historiography of the Great Patriotic War: Results of the Couple of Decades, Old times, 2008, 4 (14), pp. 6-21. *
https://scholar.google.com/scholar_...mes&volume=4&pages=6-21&publication_year=2009

Which is why 8 May is a major holiday in Russia, and why a military parade commemorating the USSR's victory over Nazism is organized every year in Moscow. The entire event is held under the banner of remembering the anti-fascist resistance of the Soviet nation during WW2:














Red Army veterans who fought at the front lines against Nazism have systematically been attending the parade, seated in the first rows: 






The pervasiveness of this consequent anti-fascist legacy was seen reflected in the Soviet flags flown by Russian armed forces over the course of their current campaign in Ukraine:


















Such flags have also been raised by Russian-speakers of eastern Ukraine and Crimea at various gatherings:










By contrast, not only is there no state sponsorship for the remembrance of WW2 victory over Nazism in present day Ukraine. Divergent narratives focused on anti-communism, that favor local Nazi collaborators e.g. Bandera, happen to be dominant in Ukrainian society.

In conclusion, there can be no comparison between Russia and Ukraine when it comes to state endorsement of Nazism and Nazi ideology.

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## Nuclear Clown

letsrock said:


> lol - what self defense for nato to bomb korea - korea is like thousands of kilometers away. you are just leaping from one gymnast to another one.



NATO never bombed Korea


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531480773051695105

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531481972660482048


----------



## Nuclear Clown

SalarHaqq said:


> The Ukrainian regime itself has neo-Nazi leanings and Nazi sympathizers in its midst, the Russian government does not. In fact, it is part of NATO and zionist propaganda to try to suggest there is no difference between the two states in this regard. But this is a fallacy, and quite a preposterous one at that.
> 
> In 2016, the city of Kiev renamed a major avenue to honor Stepan Bandera, local WW2 collaborator of Nazi Germany:
> 
> _____
> 
> Kiev renames major street to honor Russian Nazi collaborator​Stepan Bandera’s nationalist group urged Ukranians to ‘destroy’ Jews and Poles in the 1940s​By Agencies and TOI staff
> 7 July 2016, 10:03 pm
> 
> https://www.timesofisrael.com/kiev-renames-major-street-to-honor-russian-nazi-collaborator/
> 
> ____
> 
> According to some, the above information represents "Kremlin propaganda". I wasn't aware that the "Times of Israel" is a mouthpiece for the Russian presidency, nor that "Google Earth" is controlled by the latter.
> 
> Now, could you point me to an equivalent to this anywhere in Russia? This is as if the city of Moscow named a street in the center of Moscow after Bronislav Kaminski - simply unthinkable.
> 
> Here you can see members of the Kiev City Council - who are not members to any neo-Nazi group, chant "Bandera is out father":
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500477006030733315
> This too was considered "Kremlin propaganda". And yet it's factual. And again, nothing like this would be even remotely possible at the Moscow municipality.
> 
> The Ukrainian ambassador to Germany of all places, Andrei Melnik, declared having laid a bouquet of flowers at the grave of Stepan Bandera (located in Germany), whom he referred to as "our hero". Any Russian diplomat on the record for praising a Nazi collaborator? Negative.
> 
> https://detv.us/2022/03/16/stop-demonizing-the-azov-regiment-rt-en/
> 
> Below that, the user linked a tweet by Melnyk from 2015. In it, Melnyk referred to a visit to the grave of Ukrainian fascist and anti-Semite Stephan Bandera, whom he honored with a bouquet of flowers. Melnyk wrote at the time:
> 
> “At the beginning of my visit to Munich, I met representatives of the UKR and laid flowers at the grave of our hero Stepan Bandera.”
> 
> Furthermore, the Great Patriotic War as the Soviet defense against national-socialist Germany during WW2 is referred to in Russia, is upheld in the collective memory of the Russian people by authorities in Moscow. Along with the original anti-fascist ideology coined by Josef Stalin, it occupies a central place in the formulation of modern Russian national identity, and forms a centerpiece of Russian political culture.
> 
> Here some academic publications on the topic:
> 
> *C. McDaniel, Russia’s Proud Past and Patriotic Identity: A Case Study of Historical Accounts in Contemporary Russian History Textbooks. Modern Languages Open, 2018, (1) 26, pp. 1–33.*
> https://www.modernlanguagesopen.org/articles/10.3828/mlo.v0i0.239/galley/303/download/
> 
> *Vera Tolz, Forging the Nation: National Identity and Nation Building in Post-Communist Russia, Europe-Asia Studies, 1998, Vol. 50, No. 6, pp. 993-1022. * https://www.jstor.org/stable/154053
> 
> *E.A. Wood, Performing memory: Vladimir Putin and the celebration of World War II in Russia, Soviet and Post Soviet Review, 2011, 38 (2), pp. 172-200. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google Scholar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> scholar.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *S. Bernstein, Remembering War, Remaining Soviet: Digital Commemoration of World War II in Putin’s Russia, Memory Studies, 2016, 9 (4), pp. 422-436. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google Scholar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> scholar.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *E.F. Krinko, Modern Russian Historiography of the Great Patriotic War: Results of the Couple of Decades, Old times, 2008, 4 (14), pp. 6-21. *
> https://scholar.google.com/scholar_...mes&volume=4&pages=6-21&publication_year=2009
> 
> Which is why 8 May is a major holiday in Russia, and why a military parade commemorating the USSR's victory over Nazism is held every year in Moscow. The entire event is held under the banner of the commemoration of the anti-fascist resistance during WW2:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WW2 veterans who fought at the frontlinesagainst Nazism have systematically been seated in the first rows at the parade:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The pervasiveness of this firm anti-fascist legacy was seen reflected in the Soviet flags flown by the Russian armed forces during their current military operation in Ukraine:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The flags were also raised by Russian-speakers of eastern Ukraine and Crimea at various gatherings:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By contrast, not only is there no state sponsorship for the remembrance of WW2 victory over Nazism in present day Ukraine, but opposite narratives focusing on anti-communism and favoring local Nazi collaborators such as Bandera, happen to be dominant in Ukrainian society.
> 
> In conclusion, there can be no comparison between Russia and Ukraine when it comes to Nazism and Nazi ideology.


*For sure : the Nazi-Soviet alliance started WW2!!! Ukraine had no say!*

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## letsrock

Raffie said:


> NATO never bombed Korea


west bombed korea in 1950.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

RoadAmerica said:


> America might be the one paying for a majority of it, but it’s the occurrences in Europe’s backyard for 20 years that has led up and caused this war I wish America wasn’t paying for it but I sure won’t be blamed for Russians killing Ukraine financed by Europe’s lust for cheap energy. I’m sure you’ll gloss over facts and say “but it’s americas fault”


lol, I don't understand why you want to argue with the insane and the infirm. 

He would probably say "It's the American fault that US lend least over 80% of military article to US and USSR to fight the Nazi Germany" back in WW2. 

This is a Europe problem, US is just a helping hand, it may seems 50 billions is a lot, that's not even the money we spend for a year in Afghanistan. try double that.


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## letsrock

Raffie said:


> *For sure : the Nazi-Soviet alliance started WW2!!! Ukraine had no say!*
> View attachment 849500


revisionist nonsense. non-aggression pacts were signed with Nazi Germany by almost all western countries prior to it.
1934 : German-Polish Non-Aggression Pact <= people tend to forget that they were the first to sign a pact with the Nazis

• 1935 : Anglo-German Naval Pact

• 1938 : Munich Agreement (Britain and France)

• 1938 : Bonnet-Ribbentrop Non-Aggression Pact (France)

• 1939 : German–Romanian Economic Treaty

• may 1939 : Denmark-Germany Non-Aggression Pact

• june 1939 : Estonia-Germany Non-Aggression Pact

• june 1939 : Latvia-Germany Non-Aggression Pact

Moreover even a child knows that nazis hated of all the people - communists and eastern europeans.

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## SalarHaqq

sammuel said:


> Another example of your silly attempts to mislead people.
> 
> First coin was actually made by an SS-members Leopold von Mildenstein and Kurt Tuchler, who suggested solution of the Jewish question should be for the German Jews’ emigration to Palestine. The coin was their own private initiative.
> 
> Second coin does not even relate to the issue. That is not a Nazi swastika on the coin , but the ancient religious symbol used various Eurasian cultures.
> 
> Stop misleading people.



My comprehensive response was deemed off-topic by a moderator. Briefly: what's actually misleading, is to suggest there was nothing more to it than two SS officers formulating some ephemeral proposal and having a coin minted for their private needs in celebration of their initiative... When in reality, collaboration between Nazi Germany and the zionist movement took the form of an actual accord, the Havara agreement signed on 25 August 1933, as well as seven years of bilateral cooperation.

Readers interested in the subject are invited to study the following source: https://www.palestineremembered.com/FactsAboutHaavara.html

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## SalarHaqq

letsrock said:


> revisionist nonsense. non-aggression pacts were signed with Nazi Germany by almost all western countries prior to it.
> 1934 : German-Polish Non-Aggression Pact <= people tend to forget that they were the first to sign a pact with the Nazis
> 
> • 1935 : Anglo-German Naval Pact
> 
> • 1938 : Munich Agreement (Britain and France)
> 
> • 1938 : Bonnet-Ribbentrop Non-Aggression Pact (France)
> 
> • 1939 : German–Romanian Economic Treaty
> 
> • may 1939 : Denmark-Germany Non-Aggression Pact
> 
> • june 1939 : Estonia-Germany Non-Aggression Pact
> 
> • june 1939 : Latvia-Germany Non-Aggression Pact
> 
> Moreover even a child knows that nazis hated of all the people - communists and eastern europeans.



Not to mention that the nonsense posted by the troll does not even come close to challenging any of the hard facts I pointed to.

Namely, what is being commemorated today in Russia is *Soviet victory over Nazism*, and certainly not any random item from Soviet history.

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## ckf

Is America the Real Victim of Anti-Russia Sanctions?


By misjudging the size and importance of Russia’s economy, the West might have taken steps toward its own isolation




www.tabletmag.com





Biden's war biting American family pocketbooks

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531164496949088264


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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530977792262918145


Killing POW is a breach of Geneva conversation. You know Russia will receive condemnation. That will fire up Ukraine efforts to put Russia as terror state worldwide.


----------



## sammuel

~

Still looking for confirmation on this :

Poland handed over 155-mm AHS Krab self-propelled artillery mounts to Ukraine​






Poland continues to support Ukraine by giving us a new package of military assistance.

What is known​According to the local edition of Radio Lublin, Ukraine received three batteries of 155mm AHS Krab self-propelled artillery mounts. That is 18 units. To use them, the Poles trained 100 soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

What kind of self-propelled guns​AHS Krab- Polish self-propelled artillery mount caliber 155 mm (compatible with NATO ammunition). She is has a tower from the British ACS AS-90 and chassis from Korean ACS K9 Thunder r manufactured by Samsung Techwin.

AHS Krab is capable of firing 6 shots per minute. The maximum firing range is 40 km. The ACS crew consists of 5 people. By the way, AHS Krab can reach speeds up to 67 km/h.














Poland handed over 155-mm AHS Krab self-propelled artillery mounts to Ukraine: we tell you what it is


Poland continues to support Ukraine by giving us a new package of military assistance.




gagadget.com


----------



## Viet

FairAndUnbiased said:


> People say this but they have no evidence. China has elections in line with our own constitution. Enemy traitor parties are not allowed to participate. If you want to change that you are free to try to impose regime change by force over China and we will see what happens to you and your kind.


My response because you support the separatists to hold election. Why don’t you do it in China?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531496848304885760

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531460943741341697

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531449462920556548

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531430641216135169

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531363325958930432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531361996469313539

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531502089905614848

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531473179083939840


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## ckf

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531430641216135169


The brent crude trade will be interesting trade tomorrow. Headline is EU sanctioning Russian sea borne oil, but only 2/3 is affected by sea born oil, and no enforcement mechanism for violating members. There's also no mechanism to adjust for member EU states suffering from huge competitive dis-advantage with 20-30% lower oil cost. Hungary, and Slovakia can simply sell diesel and refined products in the black market with surrounding neighbor countries. I think oil future probably headed for head and shoulder rollover next few days. This is actually good news for global economy. Summer oil will probably be peak oil. Lower inflation and lower gas prices by fall.

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## A.P. Richelieu

ckf said:


> What Geneva conventions, US has never cared for human rights, democratic governance and rights of other nations. US has attempted over 100 coups in democratic elected south America countries alone in the last century. Are you blind to Carpet bombing of Korea and Vietnam, civilian casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan? So North Koreas are Koreans as we all know, American have no right to Carpet bomb Koreans in Korea. North Korea and South Korea are newly prop up territories post WW2, and if they want to fight it out for self determination, its their prerogative. Last time I checked, Americans are not Koreans, the fact that America still has a base in Korea is an insult to the Korean people. You should also ask Okinawan's how they feel about the US bases on their land as well. If US truly honored democratic values and Geneva conventions, they should remove all their bases from Okinawa, and South Korea immediately.



The Korean War was a United Nations operation, and the United Nations have full rights to intervene.
As you are unfamiliar with how the world works, further discussions with you are meaningless.
Ignored from now on.



letsrock said:


> lol - what self defense for nato to bomb korea - korea is like thousands of kilometers away. you are just leaping from one gymnast to another one.


The Korean War was not a NATO operation.
It was a war started by North Korea, and the response was under a United Nation umbrella.
You are ignored from now on.

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## Apollon

wahhab0202 said:


> Worthless and dead country?? WTF. Having one of the hugest hydrocarbon reserve in the world, precious metal for industries and largest arable land mass, Russia is the last place to call worthless. In fact, if they Russia no nuclear in their arsenal, NATO will make feast on Russia's flesh and blood.



Lowest birthrate in the world. Russia is dead and cant compete in any field. East will be taken by China sooner or later anyways.


Evryone will feast on that carcass buddy. Not just NATO.


----------



## Apollon

Russian Airbus and Boeing aircraft banned from Chinese airspace – reports - AeroTime


The Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC) has reportedly banned Airbus and Boeing aircraft operated by Russian airlines from entering Chinese airspace. Several Russian airlines received and later published memos citing the ban, Russian news site RBK reports. According to the report, some...




www.aerotime.aero






Chinese alliance with Russia in all its glamour. 

China bans russian aircraft from chinese airspace 


@Beast @beijingwalker 


😅😅😅😅

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## ckf

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The Korean War was a United Nations operation, and the United Nations have full rights to intervene.
> As you are unfamiliar with how the world works, further discussions with you are meaningless.
> Ignored from now on.
> 
> 
> The Korean War was not a NATO operation.
> It was a war started by North Korea, and the response was under a United Nation umbrella.
> You are ignored from now on.


Always using UN to hide the fact that it was American bombers that carpet bomb North Korea and killed millions and committed unspeakable atrocities. There's a reason UN is headquartered in New York and nothing but American patsies. Then what about Vietnam, was UN involved? How about using agent orange to deforest Vietnam? If you can't face the facts, why discuss. Please ignore me. Badge of honor to be ignored by you.

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## Soldier35

The failed attack of the Ukrainian special forces on the Russian armored car KamAZ "Typhoon-VDV" was caught on video. The ambush was arranged in the Kherson region, the armored car withstood the blow and continued to follow, the Ukrainian special forces did not show the frames of the destroyed car.






Footage of the combat work of Russian Su-25 attack aircraft in Ukraine. The pilots attacked strongholds of the Ukrainian army. The Russian SU-25 aircraft entered the army in 1981, despite its age, the aircraft has phenomenal reliability and incredible survivability.






One of the pilots in Ukraine showed the skill of flying the Ka-52 Alligator helicopter, the car flew over the river at an ultra-low altitude. Russian helicopter almost touched the water, flying over it a few centimeters

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Paul2

Raffie said:


> *For sure : the Nazi-Soviet alliance started WW2!!! Ukraine had no say!*
> View attachment 849500



Spanish civil war, and the West's unwillingness to intervene decisively started the WW2.

Hitler seen it as a green light from The Great Powers to start his own powergrab


----------



## jamahir

RoadAmerica said:


> Russia will never be a technical leader again, just look they need chips from stollen Ukraine dish washers 🤣
> The west doesn’t benefit from relations with Russia while Putin is around



1. How do you how many dish washers are being "stolen" and if they are not for dish washers and washing machines themselves instead of the military systems that NATO media is reporting ?

2. Russia is still a leader in space, in medicine, in computing and probably other things. Though yes, it no longer has the factories to produce the microprocessors and memory in the numbers as during USSR times. It is definite that Russia if it doesn't let itself get into a world war it will set up a crewed research station on Mars in 10 years from now along with China and North Korea, and India if India gets rid of the current fascist right-wing Hindutvadi government.


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> 1. How do you how many dish washers are being "stolen" and if they are not for dish washers and washing machines themselves instead of the military systems that NATO media is reporting ?
> 
> 2. Russia is still a leader in space, in medicine, in computing and probably other things. Though yes, it no longer has the factories to produce the microprocessors and memory in the numbers as during USSR times. It is definite that Russia if it doesn't let itself get into a world war it will set up a crewed research station on Mars in 10 years from now along with China and North Korea, and India if India gets rid of the current fascist right-wing Hindutvadi government.



Russia is no leader in space. It lost connection 30 years ago. 


In medicine? Lol.


Computing? Name a russian achievement in last 40 years in that area.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531546204210966529


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Paul2 said:


> Spanish civil war, and the West's unwillingness to intervene decisively started the WW2.
> 
> Hitler seen it as a green light from The Great Powers to start his own powergrab


You do not start a war, by not starting a war.

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## Foinikas

Meawnhile in the West

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Computing? Name a russian achievement in last 40 years in that area.



This for example.



Apollon said:


> In medicine? Lol.



How about the Sputnik COVID vaccine for example ?



Apollon said:


> Russia is no leader in space. It lost connection 30 years ago.



Yet the Western bloc has panicked with Russia's announcement to withdraw from the ISS in a year.

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## wahhab0202

Apollon said:


> Lowest birthrate in the world. Russia is dead and cant compete in any field. East will be taken by China sooner or later anyways.
> 
> 
> Evryone will feast on that carcass buddy. Not just NATO.


Thank you for agreeing with me that Russia is not worthless, in fact it is priceless. As if Russia is a dead country, it is remained to be seen.
3 months ago I thought they were as good as dead meat from this armed conflict and Ukraine army would march to far inside Russian territory. I was wrong.



Foinikas said:


> Meawnhile in the West
> 
> View attachment 849553


Whoever create this poster, he/she can read my mind. This is exactly my mind is changing in the course of this war.

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## Paul2

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You do not start a war, by not starting a war.



Para bellum


----------



## jhungary

wahhab0202 said:


> Whoever create this poster, he/she can read my mind. This is exactly my mind is changing in the course of this war.



Your mind changed because Putin has change his war goal over the time. Russia is the one that started this war, the war can only be stopped when Putin stop, that give him latitude to change his goal to call "victory", I mean US themselves can declare victory in Afghanistan if they change the goal from National Building to just killed Osama Bin Laden. That does not really mean anything other than looking it on domestic consumption or to buy idiots everywhere else.

On the other hand look how the War Goal Post has changed for Russia since invasion?

Russian start this war to "Denaizify and Demilitarize" Ukraine on Feb 24. Whatever that means.
On March 30, Russia claim the western Ukraine operation is complete and withdraw all of their troop and focus on Eastern Ukraine. 
On May 16, Russia now said the goal is focusing on Donbas and land bridge toward Transnistria after Kharkiv attack being expelled. 


Russia could have said they had won the war if they claim now the only reason they went there is Mariupol, they got it already, albeit a piece of dump now. The question is not what they want to achieve, the question is what it takes to achieve that goal. Financial Times estimated that 21% of Ukrainian territories are in Russian hand right now, and that included Crimea and Donbass territories that was previously occupied by the separatists both would have account for around 11% of the Entire Ukraine. That mean for the losses Russia suffered, they have manage to claw 9% of Ukrainian land. does that really sounded like a victory to you??


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> This for example.
> 
> 
> 
> How about the Sputnik COVID vaccine for example ?
> 
> 
> 
> Yet the Western bloc has panicked with Russia's announcement to withdraw from the ISS in a year.



Sputnik? Doesnt work and did never do certification. Some countries shipped it back because each vial had different stuff in it and failed quality tests.

Nobody panickes because ISS. The station is old and phased out in 2024 anyways. 


You truely live in another universe.



Foinikas said:


> Meawnhile in the West
> 
> View attachment 849553



Dude we are the west. As i said your cheering for facist regimes is disturbing.


I agree in so far that we should equip Ukraine with nuclear weapons. This would end this war instantly.


----------



## Soldier35

Foreign and Ukrainian journalists came under direct shelling in Ukraine, several journalists, including the Ukrainian military, were injured.

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## StraightEdge

jamahir said:


> This for example.
> 
> How about the Sputnik COVID vaccine for example ?
> 
> Yet the Western bloc has panicked with Russia's announcement to withdraw from the ISS in a year.



Russia is not USSR, but still very relevant and will remain relevant for many more decades. 
One thing everyone forgets is that due to global warming, the artic trade route is starting to open. This will mean huge for Russia and global logistics. 
Why Russia is Building an Arctic Silk Road - YouTube


----------



## Apollon

StraightEdge said:


> Russia is not USSR, but still very relevant and will remain relevant for many more decades.
> One thing everyone forgets is that due to global warming, the artic trade route is starting to open. This will mean huge for Russia and global logistics.
> Why Russia is Building an Arctic Silk Road - YouTube



Too bad arctic silkroad ends just there, in Russia. Russian ships are banned from all EU ports and that wont change in many decades. So its a dead end


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Sputnik? Doesnt work and did never do certification. Some countries shipped it back because each vial had different stuff in it and failed quality tests.



This is from February this year, Reuters source redirected from Sputnik website :


> MOSCOW, Feb 6 (Reuters) - India has given regulatory approval to Russia's one-shot Sputnik Light COVID-19 vaccine after it authorized Russia's main vaccine - the two-dose Sputnik V - last year, the Russian Direct Investment Fund said on Sunday.
> 
> Sputnik Light, the first component of the Sputnik V vaccine, can be used as a booster shot with other vaccines, RDIF said.
> 
> Head of the fund Kirill Dmitriev called Sputnik Light in a statement "the solution to increase efficacy and duration of other vaccines, including against Omicron variant".
> 
> 
> 
> RDIF struck deals with seven Indian pharmaceutical companies to make a total of 1 billion Sputnik doses both for export and for use in India. read more





Apollon said:


> Nobody panickes because ISS. The station is old and phased out in 2024 anyways.
> 
> 
> You truely live in another universe.



LOL, so the Western bloc will build another station within two years ? Though it is possible that like @Hamartia Antidote posted, once SpaceX Starship has been tested thoroughly one version can be configured as a station and launched to park in LEO though I don't know about its expandibility.

But come on, the NASA chief administrator has expressed immediate concern about Russia's withdrawal decision by saying that media is carrying wrong report of Russia withdrawing immediately. Sign of panic. 



Apollon said:


> Dude we are the west. As i said your cheering for facist regimes is disturbing.



You say @Foinikas is supporting a "fascist regime" but you didn't answer me last night about Zelensky having banned all opposition parties, many of whom happen to be leftist and I didn't add then that at least one opposition leader had been designated to be put under house arrest and there was one official murdered "for treason". These are the known things and in addition to all those crimes of Zelensky that we know from this thread since February 24. So who's the fascist regime and what are this regime's supporters ?



Apollon said:


> I agree in so far that we should equip Ukraine with nuclear weapons. This would end this war instantly.



Be prepared for Boom Boom in Berlin. 



StraightEdge said:


> Russia is not USSR, but still very relevant and will remain relevant for many more decades.



True. Russia is the platform for sanity keepers in the world.



StraightEdge said:


> One thing everyone forgets is that due to global warming, the artic trade route is starting to open. This will mean huge for Russia and global logistics.
> Why Russia is Building an Arctic Silk Road - YouTube



This will be eventually futile because there is research going on to develop micro generators of electricity that can power at device level, whether a wearable computer or a stove or an aircraft or a spacecraft. Devices that will cancel the need to use petroleum in vehicles ( for petroleum is mainly used in vehicles and vehicles are becoming electric ) and natural gas to power factories and power plants.

One such device-level micro-generator of electricity whose development Russia is also participating in, or was because I don't know the post-Feb-24 status, uses the kinetic energy of the omnipresent and never-ending cosmic particles, neutrinos, to set atomic oscillations in a structure composed of interweaving layers of nanometric graphene and silicon and uses electrodes to pick up small amounts of electricity generated by the piezo-electric effect from the oscillating layers and combines a set of such small structures along with a rechargeable battery to have a self-charging battery system that will never run out of electricity until the oscillating structures fail physically or the rechargeable battery fails. This device is proposed to power any common modern electric and electronic device from a wearable computer to an aircraft ( the last when the generating devices are arranged in groups to get higher power ) to heart pacemaker to induction stove to spacecraft. This will be the ultimate form of electricity generation. In fact if used on Earth it can supposedly oscillate for other forms of cosmic and human-made radiation too like phone signals between phones and towers. The German organization Neutrino Energy Group is leading this effort and organizations from other countries like Russia and India are / were participating with it. The Indian side is the institution called C-MET under the IT ministry. One project in motion is Car Pi :


> BERLIN, Oct. 14, 2021 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- One of todays most ambitious projects is getting underway: a new partnership between India and Germany is paving the way for the electric car "Car Pi", which will get its energy from the environment rather than from a charging station, making it completely independent of "dishonest" electricity generated by the combustion of fossil fuels.
> 
> The announcement comes from the International Conference on Multifunctional Electronic Materials and Processing (MEMP 2021) in India. Dr. Vijay Pandurang Bhatkar, a computer scientist and the Rector of India's Nalanda University, announced the signing of a Memorandum of Cooperation (MoC). Vijay Pandurang Bhatkar is the developer of the PARAM supercomputer and the founder of India's state-run High Performance Computing program.
> 
> The pact establishes a new cooperation between India's C-MET Science Centre and the Neutrino Energy Group, one of the world's top electronic materials research and development institutes. This Berlin-based, German-American business has created a device that converts ambient energy into electrical current using an innovative graphene-based composite material. "This new, unique smart partnership has the potential to put in motion revolutionary processes in the fields of energy generation and automotive technology," says Neutrino Energy Group CEO Holger Thorsten Schubart.
> 
> The pact was signed under the auspices of the Indian government and other partners by C-MET, a Pune-based materials center for electronic technologies that is part of the Ministry of Electronics and Information Technology (MeitY) and, therefore, the Indian government. It paves the way for the Car Pi to be developed by merging financial and intellectual resources.
> 
> The collaboration will focus on materials science, electronic materials, 2D materials, the production of quantum dots, and the development of applied devices. The project's implementation budget has been estimated at $2.5 billion USD.
> 
> The Car-Pi electric car, which does not require power from charging stations, is intended to be the product of the collaboration. Autonomous power sources integrated within the body of the electric vehicle will collect energy from the environment and generate propulsion. This method will also be utilized to charge the compact battery pack that is used to cover peak loads. This novel method has the potential to alleviate electric mobility constraints such as long charging periods or the need to ramp up conventional power generation to fulfill the demand for electric vehicles, all while reducing CO2 emissions into the atmosphere.
> 
> Shri Sanjay Dhotre, India's Minister of State for Education, Communications, Electronics and Information Technology, said at MEMP 2021 that the alliance will "certainly have the broadest support of the Government of India."
> 
> Dr. Bharat Bhanudas Kale, co-founder and director of the Centre for Materials for Electronic Technology (C-MET) and a fellow of the Royal Society of Chemistry in London, is also part of the team and sees the signing of the partnership memorandum and the start of the collaboration as particularly significant for the global community in the field of energy and materials. In this domain, the scientist is one of the world's leading specialists.
> 
> "Despite the fact that the technology has been verified and tested in lab settings, there is still a long way to go before the first Car Pi hits the road." Holger Thorsten Schubart notes that the development of the self-charging Car Pi necessitates additional study into power generating dependability under various situations, as well as safety and a variety of other factors. According to him, the design and demonstration facility in Frankfurt will be an important component of the project.
> 
> "We are delighted to begin this adventure with C-MET, which is known for its globally recognized expertise - the Neutrino Energy Group has been seeking a qualified partner to manage such a huge and complicated project for a long time," stated Holger Thorsten Schubart. "As wonderful and audacious as it may sound, building a self-charging electric car is unquestionably a new milestone in the history of automotive engineering and in particular electric mobility."


So all this huge investment of human, material and financial resources by Russia in building Arctic oil and gas routes is needless though yes you used the correct words - trade routes - because those can be used to transport non-oil-and-gas things.

Sad though that the ice is melting.


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> This is from February this year, Reuters source redirected from Sputnik website :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, so the Western bloc will build another station within two years ? Though it is possible that like @Hamartia Antidote posted, once SpaceX Starship has been tested thoroughly one version can be configured as a station and launched to park in LEO though I don't know about its expandibility.
> 
> But come on, the NASA chief administrator has expressed immediate concern about Russia's withdrawal decision by saying that media is carrying wrong report of Russia withdrawing immediately. Sign of panic.
> 
> 
> 
> You say @Foinikas is supporting a "fascist regime" but you didn't answer me last night about Zelensky having banned all opposition parties, many of whom happen to be leftist and I didn't add then that at least one opposition leader had been designated to be put under house arrest and there was one official murdered "for treason". These are the known things and in addition to all those crimes of Zelensky that we know from this thread since February 24. So who's the fascist regime and what are this regime's supporters ?
> 
> 
> 
> Be prepared for Boom Boom in Berlin.
> 
> 
> 
> True. Russia is the platform for sanity keepers in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> This will be eventually futile because there is research going on to develop micro generators of electricity that can power at device level, whether a wearable computer or a stove or an aircraft or a spacecraft. Devices that will cancel the need to use petroleum in vehicles ( for petroleum is mainly used in vehicles and vehicles are becoming electric ) and natural gas to power factories and power plants.
> 
> One such device-level micro-generator of electricity whose development Russia is also participating in, or was because I don't know the post-Feb-24 status, uses the kinetic energy of the omnipresent and never-ending cosmic particles, neutrinos, to set atomic oscillations in a structure composed of interweaving layers of nanometric graphene and silicon and uses electrodes to pick up small amounts of electricity generated by the piezo-electric effect from the oscillating layers and combines a set of such small structures along with a rechargeable battery to have a self-charging battery system that will never run out of electricity until the oscillating structures fail physically or the rechargeable battery fails. This device is proposed to power any common modern electric and electronic device from a wearable computer to an aircraft ( the last when the generating devices are arranged in groups to get higher power ) to heart pacemaker to induction stove to spacecraft. This will be the ultimate form of electricity generation. In fact if used on Earth it can supposedly oscillate for other forms of cosmic and human-made radiation too like phone signals between phones and towers. The German organization Neutrino Energy Group is leading this effort and organizations from other countries like Russia and India are / were participating with it. The Indian side is the institution called C-MET under the IT ministry. One project in motion is Car Pi :




There wont be boom boom. Moment Ukraine goes nuclear is moment Russia retreats. 


USS is ageing and over 20 years old with very limited use nowadays. The new programs will exclude russia and china. 


As for Sputnik, no 1st world country has certified this shit. 


Its that simple.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531589621552906241


----------



## SecularNationalist

Exactly happening what I've told here in the beginning days of the war that despite the setbacks Russia will achieve it's goals ultimately and win. That's just Russian way of doing things. Someone who read their history will get an idea what i am talking about.
Now it's obvious Russia has turned the tide of this war.
@Apollon you regularly taking your pills buddy?

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> There wont be boom boom. Moment Ukraine goes nuclear is moment Russia retreats.



And who and how will you deliver nuclear to Zelensky ?



Apollon said:


> USS is ageing and over 20 years old with very limited use nowadays. The new programs will exclude russia and china.



1. Well, you said ISS will be phased out by 2024, within two years from now. What does that mean ?

2. You think Russia and China will want to be part of Western bloc programs now ? The West has SpaceX mainly and the East and plus Global South will have its own programs, even crewed Mars programs. A balance.



Apollon said:


> As for Sputnik, no 1st world country has certified this shit.



Oh "The great First World" where millions are homeless and hungry and dying of disease just because of socio-economic reasons and live in wage slavery and the only ones to benefit are the Capitalist crooks who own mansions set in huge estates, have expensive bags and change expensive dresses for every party and donate to the accounts of plutocratic parties who form governments that don't work their own citizens but maintain huge militaries that invade progressive countries 10,000 kms away and have media organizations that create false massacres ( what happened to Bucha ?  ) to besmirch their opponents and support Nazi and fascist proxy militias and governments.

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## Apollon

SecularNationalist said:


> Exactly happening what I've told here in the beginning days of the war that despite the setbacks Russia will achieve it's goals ultimately and win. That's just Russian way of going things. Someone who read their history will get an idea what i am talking about.
> Now it's obvious Russia has turned the tide of this war.
> @Apollon you regularly taking your pills buddy?



So you say russias goal from beginning was small area in east and thats it? 28.000 soldiers killed as distraction and you say Russias goal was to permanently give up its claim on the large majority of Ukraine? Good to know



jamahir said:


> And who and how will you deliver nuclear to Zelensky ?
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Well, you said ISS will be phased out by 2024, within two years from now. What does that mean ?
> 
> 2. You think Russia and China will want to be part of Western bloc programs now ? The West has SpaceX mainly and the East and the Global South will have its own programs, even crewed Mars programs. A balance.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh "The great First World" where millions are homeless and hungry and dying of disease just because of socio-economic reasons and live in wage slavery and the only ones to benefit are the Capitalist crooks who own mansions set in huge estates, have expensive bags and change expensive dresses for every party and donate to the accounts of plutocratic parties who form governments that don't work their own citizens but maintain huge militaries that invade progressive countries 10,000 kms away and have media organizations that create false massacres ( what happened to Bucha ?  ) to besmirch their opponents and support Nazi and fascist proxy militias and governments.



A nuclear warhead is not a big thing buddy. We ship in entire artillery 😅👍 a nuke fits into a backpack. 


The global south? Australia is west, Chile is west. Rest has no running toilets.


----------



## Paul2

Paul2 said:


> Russians were expecting them, Ukrainian telegrams say. Lets see if they will decide to press on, or let Russians fall back.
> 
> It's very clear though what's the plan
> 
> View attachment 849448
> 
> 
> It's also the only place where it's realistically possible to bridge Dnipro for the armour to bypass Kakhovka, or Kherson



They blew up bridges while retreating


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531306787864989697

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531572713575354368

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531516473163882496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531516473163882496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531496848304885760

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531578049661128710


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> A nuclear warhead is not a big thing buddy. We ship in entire artillery 😅👍 a nuke fits into a backpack.



I understand that there are nuclear shells that can be fitted onto medium-sized mobile guns but to what end ? Russia went to war just for such a thing other than deNazify. USA government has now refused to supply Zelensky with rocketry that have range to reach Russia because it will make Russia target USA directly and here you are saying NATO should arm Zelensky with nuclear warheads ?  



Apollon said:


> The global south? Australia is west, Chile is west. Rest has no running toilets.



I know Australia and Chile are in the Western bloc. By Global South I mean all countries and movements not part of Western bloc ( Venezuela, Cuba, Syria etc ) and are not what comes to mind with the geopolitical words "The East" - Vostok namely Russia.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531577019858931712

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## jamahir

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531577019858931712



This is clear message to Western mainstream media that it is Zelensky who is stubbornly causing all the stoppage of grain transport that NATO is blaming on Russia.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531574835184386048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531574840301441024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531418852344713217

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531362638390763521

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531364133018419201

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> I understand that there are nuclear shells that can be fitted onto medium-sized mobile guns but to what end ? Russia went to war just for such a thing other than deNazify. USA government has now refused to supply Zelensky with rocketry that have range to reach Russia because it will make Russia target USA directly and here you are saying NATO should arm Zelensky with nuclear warheads ?
> 
> 
> 
> I know Australia and Chile are in the Western bloc. By Global South I mean all countries and movements not part of Western bloc ( Venezuela, Cuba, Syria etc ) and are not what comes to mind with the geopolitical words "The East" - Vostok namely Russia.



Russia went to war to force Ukraine back into its realm. There are no higher motives behind that. 


Till 2014 Ukraine was for hundreds of years occupied by Russia. Till 2022 Russia planned to get it all back. Which even you cant denie failed completly. At best russia will get 15% and even that is not clear. Russia suffered extreme high losses and has totally miscalculated. 



You agree that Pussolini believed EU will shrug it off. That he now has a complete embargo that will last decades was definitly not on his plans


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531608614737158148

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531593962003533824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531588794562277376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531568325972606976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531563163186917377

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RoadAmerica

ckf said:


> Americans should be outraged that Biden cares more for Ukraine territorial dispute with Russia in an area with predominantly Russian speakers, than American mother without baby formula, and American families that have to deal with $6 a gallon gas prices as well as historic high inflation rates above 8%. If this is an European issue, Europe should step up and pay for the war, so why is Biden financing this war again? If EU is spending 45 billion to finance this war, then I will definetely say it's not america's fault and I will defend it to the teeth.
> 
> Also US has long interest in Ukraine since 2014, US military aid topped $2.5 billion since 2014 prior to the war to fund Ukraine's aspiration to NATO, which spark this war. Ukraine military and civilian institution has long been infiltrated by American interest. Ukraine ranks 122/180 countries in corruption according to transparency international. I am sure Zelensky got fistful of dollars stashed away in the caymans. Oh, he does.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pandora Papers Reveal Offshore Holdings of Ukrainian President and his Inner Circle - OCCRP
> 
> 
> Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky rode to power on pledges to clean up the Eastern European country, but the Pandora Papers reveal he and his close circle were the beneficiaries of a network o...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.occrp.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The futility of U.S. military aid and NATO aspirations for Ukraine — Defense Priorities
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defensepriorities.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Corruption in Ukraine - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


I wish we weren’t pissing away our money but I don’t make that decision. As far as corruption, I hope you don’t think any country is any better, they’re all corrupt but again noting I can do about it. 

But again, this is not americas war. This mess is on putler and europes hands, that’s a fact.

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## jamahir

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531574835184386048



Exemplary hysteria, ha ha.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531364133018419201



The execution should be livestreamed and live TV'ed. I am not a person of aggression of aggression and violence but I will watch it.



Apollon said:


> Russia went to war to force Ukraine back into its realm. There are no higher motives behind that.



Agreed.



Apollon said:


> Till 2014 Ukraine was for hundreds of years occupied by Russia.



How can you say occupied when in 2003 Ukraine government sent its military to Iraq to participate in the Western invasion ?



Apollon said:


> Till 2022 Russia planned to get it all back. Which even you cant denie failed completly. At best russia will get 15% and even that is not clear. Russia suffered extreme high losses and has totally miscalculated.



This operation is not done yet. The American government doesn't want to antagonize Russia more by supplying Zelensky's Nazis with long range rocketry that can reach Russia. Russia is stepping up attacks on NATO weapons shipments to Zelensky. And who knows what will become of Kiev city in the coming weeks ?

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## RoadAmerica

Raffie said:


> Energy is cheaper in the USA than in Europe before the recent crises...
> You surely know who Vickie Nuland is?
> You should well listen to this :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Usually, we do well with the Russian as long as Uncle Sam doesn't interferes... and Fattie Vickie avoids her shenanigans...
> You definitively don't want me to explain the little game they played at the DoS herein, HRC and Kerry have made a total mess, they ruined 23 years of well crafted job at petting Russia to side with the West just because of a short sighted policy named "Global Energy Dominance".
> I'd strongly advise Blinken to read what Otto von Bismark wrote about the relations with Russia, that's the way to go : any other method and you end with a total mess and and it's a non zero-sum game, except it's not a win-win, it's a lose-lose.
> You should watch Ridley Scott's Body of Lies : your DoS acts exactly the same way as Ed Hoffman (Russell Crowe), but at a macro-level...
> 
> Now Putler's acts are intolerable and he has to be stopped, but I can tell you that the Biden/Bojo diplomatic gaffes have created an even worse situation.
> View attachment 849498
> 
> View attachment 849499


The Russians have had Europe blackmailed for 20 years by cheap gas and they’ve been too stupid, corrupt you name it to look for other sources. 

How’d that helicopter carrier France was going to sell to Russia work out? Best buds with Putler right 🤷🏿‍♂️


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## Hassan Al-Somal

GRAPHIC images emerged from the Kherson-Nikolaev front. Beware there are Ukrainian forces lying around the railway after they were hit by Russian forces. You can see them in the below telegram. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531557681906872320

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531389425661321216


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531380533107769346

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## RoadAmerica

jamahir said:


> 1. How do you how many dish washers are being "stolen" and if they are not for dish washers and washing machines themselves instead of the military systems that NATO media is reporting ?
> 
> 2. Russia is still a leader in space, in medicine, in computing and probably other things. Though yes, it no longer has the factories to produce the microprocessors and memory in the numbers as during USSR times. It is definite that Russia if it doesn't let itself get into a world war it will set up a crewed research station on Mars in 10 years from now along with China and North Korea, and India if India gets rid of the current fascist right-wing Hindutvadi government.


No offense but you went from they don’t need dishwashers to in 10 years they’ll be on mars.

Russia hasnt even had the capacity to build aircraft carriers for years, they won’t make up for other lost capacities either. With sanctions staying in place they’ll have to depend on China for anything tech related



jamahir said:


> This for example.
> 
> 
> 
> How about the Sputnik COVID vaccine for example ?
> 
> 
> 
> Yet the Western bloc has panicked with Russia's announcement to withdraw from the ISS in a year.


The ISS is outdated and falling apart. I got news the Russians can’t maintain it without the west.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531356391117574146

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531530006307872768

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Exemplary hysteria, ha ha.
> 
> 
> 
> The execution should be livestreamed and live TV'ed. I am not a person of aggression of aggression and violence but I will watch it.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> 
> 
> How can you say occupied when in 2003 Ukraine government sent its military to Iraq to participate in the Western invasion ?
> 
> 
> 
> This operation is not done yet. The American government doesn't want to antagonize Russia more by supplying Zelensky's Nazis with long range rocketry that can reach Russia. Russia is stepping up attacks on NATO weapons shipments to Zelensky. And who knows what will become of Kiev city in the coming weeks ?



Nothing will come to kiev, even odessa is not on the menu for russia anymore. Odessa was heavily equipped with anti ship weapons. 

The borders are set now. 


Ukraine will assimilated with EU and permanent in western orbit. The division between Europe and Russia will be permanent as well. And thats the worst aspect for Russia.


----------



## jamahir

RoadAmerica said:


> The ISS is outdated and falling apart. I got news the Russians can’t maintain it without the west.



It's actually the other way round as I informed Apollon already. Western bloc is panicking that Russia is leaving ISS in a year.



RoadAmerica said:


> No offense but you went from they don’t need dishwashers to in 10 years they’ll be on mars.
> 
> Russia hasnt even had the capacity to build aircraft carriers for years, they won’t make up for other lost capacities either. With sanctions staying in place they’ll have to depend on China for anything tech related



China may come in with production capacity but we should not discount Russian intellect which can collaborate with Chinese intellect. And not building aircraft carriers doesn't mean Russia cannot build a crewed station on Mars. It may not be priority of Russia to build ACs unlike USA which builds them to invade and regime-change. @StraightEdge posted a vid in a previous page the Russian building of infrastructure in the Arctic to begin trade routes through the opening waters. The vid had huge ships of many types. Were they built by a Western company ?



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531380533107769346



Akhmat Sila !



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531356391117574146



Apollon @F-22Raptor @Vergennes @Messerschmitt @mmr @Wood @Raffie, these are Putler's RuSSians who treat the real Nazis kindly ? There was a vid some weeks ago showing a sweet little girl in the arms of a Russian soldier who had liberated a city, asking him if he had killed the bad people and he said with a smile that no they don't kill the bad but try to convince them to become good. You should have known all this when right in the beginning of the operation the Ukrainian military defenders of Snake Island were arrested by the Russians and treated well but Zelensky declared that they had died fighting without confirming this just for the sake of propaganda and that was picked up by NATO media about how the last words of the defenders had been a f-word to the Russian ship. One of the arrested Ukrainian officers was shown the arrogant speech of Zelensky with words that had abandoned the captured people and considered them dead without confirming. The officer cried with disappointment.



Apollon said:


> Nothing will come to kiev, even odessa is not on the menu for russia anymore. Odessa was heavily equipped with anti ship weapons.
> 
> The borders are set now.



Situation is fluid.



Apollon said:


> Ukraine will assimilated with EU and permanent in western orbit. The division between Europe and Russia will be permanent as well. And thats the worst aspect for Russia.



"Ukraine" ? It was right three days before the operation began that the formerly Ukrainian regions of Donetsk and Lugansk declared independence from Ukraine. And after NATO supplied Ukrainian Nazis with weapons that killed Russians and their Syrian allies it will be difficult for Russia to volunteer for further relationship with Europe.

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## SecularNationalist

Apollon said:


> So you say russias goal from beginning was small area in east and thats it? 28.000 soldiers killed as distraction and you say Russias goal was to permanently give up its claim on the large majority of Ukraine? Good to know


You pulled that 28000 figure from your EU anus 
One more thing for you , this is just the beginning. After capturing east they are coming for the whole south. Which includes Odessa and transistria territory on moldovan border. After that they will slowly move towards western Ukraine , near NATO border of Poland to show you the middle finger. The long term aim is to capture whole Ukraine that will take years.
They are moving very smart slowly. One chunk at a time. After all capturing a big country like Ukraine in one go isn't possible.
Now take that pill with a glass of water or else that will cause constipation

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## wahhab0202

jhungary said:


> Your mind changed because Putin has change his war goal over the time. Russia is the one that started this war, the war can only be stopped when Putin stop, that give him latitude to change his goal to call "victory", I mean US themselves can declare victory in Afghanistan if they change the goal from National Building to just killed Osama Bin Laden. That does not really mean anything other than looking it on domestic consumption or to buy idiots everywhere else.
> 
> On the other hand look how the War Goal Post has changed for Russia since invasion?
> 
> Russian start this war to "Denaizify and Demilitarize" Ukraine on Feb 24. Whatever that means.
> On March 30, Russia claim the western Ukraine operation is complete and withdraw all of their troop and focus on Eastern Ukraine.
> On May 16, Russia now said the goal is focusing on Donbas and land bridge toward Transnistria after Kharkiv attack being expelled.
> 
> 
> Russia could have said they had won the war if they claim now the only reason they went there is Mariupol, they got it already, albeit a piece of dump now. The question is not what they want to achieve, the question is what it takes to achieve that goal. Financial Times estimated that 21% of Ukrainian territories are in Russian hand right now, and that included Crimea and Donbass territories that was previously occupied by the separatists both would have account for around 11% of the Entire Ukraine. That mean for the losses Russia suffered, they have manage to claw 9% of Ukrainian land. does that really sounded like a victory to you??


I am not talking only from military POV but economy and politically and also Russian relationship with the world. Economically and internal politic Russia is okay. Their relationship with the world is not as bad as I thought before. Lavrov is having warm welcome from GCC states in his visit as we speak now.


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> It's actually the other way round as informed Apollon already. Western bloc is panicking that Russia is leaving ISS in a year.
> 
> 
> 
> China may come in with production capacity but we should not discount Russian intellect which can collaborate with Chinese intellect. And not building aircraft carriers doesn't mean Russia cannot build a crewed station on Mars. It may not be priority of Russia to build ACs unlike USA which builds them to invade and regime-change. @StraightEdge posted a vid in a previous page the Russian building of infrastructure in the Arctic to begin trade routes through the opening waters. The vid had huge ships of many types. Were they built by a Western company ?
> 
> 
> 
> Akhmat Sila !
> 
> 
> 
> Apollon @F-22Raptor @Vergennes @Messerschmitt @mmr @Wood @Raffie, these are Putler's RuSSians who treat the real Nazis kindly ? There was a vid some weeks ago showing a sweet little girl in the arms of a Russian soldier who had liberated a city, asking him if he had killed the bad people and he said with a smile that no they don't kill the bad but try to convince them to become good. You should have known all this when right in the beginning of the operation the Ukrainian military defenders of Snake Island were arrested by the Russians and treated well but Zelensky declared that they had died fighting without confirming this just for the sake of propaganda and that was picked up by NATO media about how the last words of the defenders had been a f-word to the Russian ship. One of the arrested Ukrainian officers was shown the arrogant speech of Zelensky with words that had abandoned the captured people and considered them dead without confirming. The officer cried with disappointment.
> 
> 
> 
> Situation is fluid.
> 
> 
> 
> "Ukraine" ? It was right three days before the operation began that the formerly Ukrainian regions of Donetsk and Lugansk declared independence from Ukraine. And after NATO supplied Ukrainian Nazis with weapons that killed Russians and their Syrian allies it will be difficult for Russia to volunteer for further relationship with Europe.



Volunteer for what? Russia is facist and worst enemy. There will be no relations for decades.

The EU breaks off all contacts and that is the end for Pussolini dreams about playing any significant role in the future. 


P.s. i love your russian Propaganda. Its so simple and primitive. You can really feel its done by retard fsb morons.


----------



## Elvin

jamahir said:


> This is clear message to Western mainstream media that it is Zelensky who is stubbornly causing all the stoppage of grain transport that NATO is blaming on Russia.



Yes let's have China blockage India, and Indian goods be escorted by Chinese ships. Would you like that?

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## Apollon

SecularNationalist said:


> You pulled that 28000 figure from your EU anus
> One more thing for you , this is just the beginning. After capturing east they are coming for the whole south. Which includes Odessa and transistria territory on moldovan border. After that they will slowly move towards western Ukraine , near NATO border of Poland to show you the middle finger. The long term aim is to capture whole Ukraine that will take years.
> They are moving very smart slowly. One chunk at a time. After all capturing a big country like Ukraine in one go isn't possible.
> Now take that pill with a glass of water or else that will cause constipation



I doubt that. We talk about russia, not about a developed country. Ukraine is flooded with weapons, russians are killed like flies evrywhere there. They even bombed installed governors when visiting their mother. 


The ukrainians absolute hate and despise the russians. 

Its important now to use their weakness to support other people inside russia who want Independence. Quite easy to blow up caucasus region.


----------



## jhungary

wahhab0202 said:


> I am not talking only from military POV but economy and politically and also Russian relationship with the world. Economically and internal politic Russia is okay. Their relationship with the world is not as bad as I thought before. Lavrov is having warm welcome from GCC states in his visit as we speak now.


Economically, the Russian were broke, sure, the rich would have no problem keep making money, but then this is up to a point when the West completely detached from Russian economy. The majority of Russian income is still from selling gas and oil to the west, that would be increasingly limited as time worn on.

Politically, there are not much of a pull from Russia right now, even their traditional allies like Kazakhstan or India are not really in a way "influenced" by Russia anymore. Unless you are saying it's okay for Russian to politically seconded to the Chinese, then yes, the political relationship is alright.

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## Apollon

@Foinikas 

You must be strong brother. Greece sends tanks to Ukraine in exchange for german tanks 




https://m.focus.de/politik/ausland/stimmen-zum-ukraine-krieg-strack-zimmermann-stellt-kanzler-scholz-ultimatum-fuer-lieferung-von-marder-panzern_id_57275780.html

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531604847635611650
Ukraine will be receiving M270 and HIMARS with long range rockets.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531507942964531201

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531485407371743232

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## F-22Raptor

This will be the rocket range of HIMARS and M270 once it reaches the East. With digital fire control and 5m CEPs, and can fire 5-6 volleys in one hour. 

Smerch can only fire 1 volley in an hour and has no digital fire capability.

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## Paul2

RoadAmerica said:


> The Russians have had Europe blackmailed for 20 years by cheap gas and they’ve been too stupid, corrupt you name it to look for other sources.
> 
> How’d that helicopter carrier France was going to sell to Russia work out? Best buds with Putler right 🤷🏿‍♂️



That's the other way around really.

For the last 20 years, Russia been the most pliant supplier of hydrocarbons for the EU. EU bigwigs treated Putin as a sleepy, ageing mediocre dictator whom they thought they can "control."

Russians carried EU through the high oil prices of 200X, making trillions for EU energy companies. EUrocrats though so high of their ability get anything magic pinata, which was Russia, that they though they don't have to engage with the outside world anymore, nor to keep vigilant with them. Crap cheap resources coming from Russia, widgets coming out, and money coming in — that was their simplistic worldview.

Few more years, and the transatlantic ties would've fallen completely.

These people still don't want to realise that they've been owned:

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## Apollon

Paul2 said:


> That's the other way around really.
> 
> For the last 20 years, Russia been the most pliant supplier of hydrocarbons for the EU. EU bigwigs treated Putin as a sleepy, ageing mediocre dictator whom they thought they can "control."
> 
> Russians carried EU through the high oil prices of 200X, making trillions for EU energy companies. EUrocrats though so high of their ability get anything magic pinata, which was Russia, that they though they don't have to engage with the outside world anymore, nor to keep vigilant with them. Crap cheap resources coming from Russia, widgets coming out, and money coming in — that was their simplistic worldview.
> 
> Few more years, and the transatlantic ties would've fallen completely.
> 
> These people still don't want to realise that they've been owned:
> 
> View attachment 849740​



Thats factual wrong. Russia never supplied more than 25% of EU hydrocarbon demands.

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## mhosein

Russian Military Forces have taken half of Severdonetsk. The ukrop nazis have been encircled in the city. Some say that they may have an exit route, however it remains to be seen. There are also reports that a sizable portion these ukrop nazi battalion have entrenched themselves in a large complex in Severdonetsk, where there is a noticeable catacomb complex. Would see witness another Azovstal in the making, well unlikely. As reports are coming in of Ukrainian troops refusing to go to the frontlines due to lack of proper equipment, standard in any respectable military in world.

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## Paul2

Apollon said:


> Thats factual wrong. Russia never supplied more than 25% of EU hydrocarbon demands.



That doesn't change much about them selling hydrocarbons at too good to be true prices for too long to be a coincidence.

Same for Putin totally playing fools of EUrocrats.

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## Viet

EU oil embargo will reduce Russia revenue substantially. This year will be cut by 2/3,
Next year further Russia will earn just 1/10 prior war.









Nachrichten aus Europa und der EU


Nachrichten aus Europa und der EU




www.tagesschau.de

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> @Foinikas
> 
> You must be strong brother. Greece sends tanks to Ukraine in exchange for german tanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://m.focus.de/politik/ausland/stimmen-zum-ukraine-krieg-strack-zimmermann-stellt-kanzler-scholz-ultimatum-fuer-lieferung-von-marder-panzern_id_57275780.html


We're not sending tanks. 

We're sending old BMP-1s that we hardly need in exchange for much better Marder 1A3/A5. 

Back in the early '90s we got some 500 BMP-1 Ost from East German stocks. 

We donated 100 to Iraq,we gave or sold another 100 to Egypt and converted some 40 or 72 to ZSU-23-2. 

If we send some 200-300 to Ukraine and get some Marder IFVs for that,it will be a success. 






I hope we keep the BMP-1s that we converted to ZSU-23-2 carriers though.

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Volunteer for what? Russia is facist and worst enemy. There will be no relations for decades.
> 
> The EU breaks off all contacts and that is the end for Pussolini dreams about playing any significant role in the future.



EU's loss.



Apollon said:


> P.s. i love your russian Propaganda. Its so simple and primitive. You can really feel its done by retard fsb morons.



Yes simple because it appeals to the truth-seeking mind unlike the mind-numbing lies concocted by NATO : Gaddafi giving viagra to his soldiers to rape Libyan females, Bashar bombing Syrian civilians with poison gas ( somehow on the eve of a UN investigation team visit  ), Venezuelan forces killing demonstrators ( when it was NATO snipers doing the job) and so on.



Elvin said:


> Yes let's have China blockage India, and Indian goods be escorted by Chinese ships. Would you like that?



You are right in one thing though. India since 2014 is being ruled by pro-NATO Nazi fascists too.

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## NotSure

RoadAmerica said:


> No because I’ve been paying attention, obviously you haven’t 🙄


Attention to what? Your murican propaganda?

Even with most basic education and knowlegde it's obvious, that the US can't have this information per se about the accuracy of russian missiles.

But then again: Education and americans, that's something like an oxymoron.

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## DF41

I strongly suggest the weapons USA and NATO been sending to Ukraine and captured by Russia should be send to Palestinians for their fight against the Israel Nazis who are bullying and killing Palestinians.

Let the fight there be an equal fight and not just slingshots and stones against the Israel Nazis bullets and machine guns and tanks and fighter jets.

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## Viet

DF41 said:


> I strongly suggest the weapons USA and NATO been sending to Ukraine and captured by Russia should be send to Palestinians for their fight against the Israel Nazis who are bullying and killing Palestinians.
> 
> Let the fight there be an equal fight and not just slingshots and stones against the Israel Nazis bullets and machine guns and tanks and fighter jets.


Israeli Nazi?
Maybe you are a Nazi yourself.
No, Putin sends those captured weapons to Moscow. He wants to know why western weapons are superior to Russia domestic made weapons.


----------



## Apollon

Paul2 said:


> That doesn't change much about them selling hydrocarbons at too good to be true prices for too long to be a coincidence.
> 
> Same for Putin totally playing fools of EUrocrats.



Dude Putin expected the EU to shrug his facist war off. What he did not expect was a complete annihilation of any russian infrastructure, contacts, trade and traffic. He did not expect to be cut of from Europe and as a result become chinas little slave without any alternative.


What Russia build up in 50 years was destroyed within a week.



Foinikas said:


> We're not sending tanks.
> 
> We're sending old BMP-1s that we hardly need in exchange for much better Marder 1A3/A5.
> 
> Back in the early '90s we got some 500 BMP-1 Ost from East German stocks.
> 
> We donated 100 to Iraq,we gave or sold another 100 to Egypt and converted some 40 or 72 to ZSU-23-2.
> 
> If we send some 200-300 to Ukraine and get some Marder IFVs for that,it will be a success.
> 
> View attachment 849746
> 
> 
> I hope we keep the BMP-1s that we converted to ZSU-23-2 carriers though.
> 
> View attachment 849747




Hopefully kills alot of russian military staff. Evrything helps

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## RoadAmerica

wahhab0202 said:


> I am not talking only from military POV but economy and politically and also Russian relationship with the world. Economically and internal politic Russia is okay. Their relationship with the world is not as bad as I thought before. Lavrov is having warm welcome from GCC states in his visit as we speak now.


What exactly are the gulf states going to buy that the Europeans were buyig in the same or greater quantity, it isn’t petroleum? 
Answer, nothing in a quantity that makes up for the loss of Europe’s markets

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> EU's loss.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes simple because it appeals to the truth-seeking mind unlike the mind-numbing lies concocted by NATO : Gaddafi giving viagra to his soldiers to rape Libyan females, Bashar bombing Syrian civilians with poison gas ( somehow on the eve of a UN investigation team visit  ), Venezuelan forces killing demonstrators ( when it was NATO snipers doing the job) and so on.
> 
> 
> 
> You are right in one thing though. India since 2014 is being ruled by pro-NATO Nazi fascists too.



Its not our loss amigo.


Russia is weak and always needed two sides to counter balance. It needed europe to counter china. Without Europe, Russia becomes Chinas slave without any alternative. 


Imagine all that infrastructure in Europe that Russia build or bought over decades. Oil raffineries, pipelines, gas storages. All taken away now. 


Russia lost evrything it build up in decades. 

This was russias bread and butter and its all gone. 


And it wont return for decades. Russia is now at Chinas mercy and basicly a colony. At same time plays no role in European politics anymore. The entire european policy changed. Till february the motto was european security with russia. Now its security against russia. 


Its polar trade route ambitions are dead too, since its a dead end. No russian ship is allowed to dock in european waters, which kills that route for russia. 



All Putins plan according to you.


----------



## RoadAmerica

Paul2 said:


> That's the other way around really.
> 
> For the last 20 years, Russia been the most pliant supplier of hydrocarbons for the EU. EU bigwigs treated Putin as a sleepy, ageing mediocre dictator whom they thought they can "control."
> 
> Russians carried EU through the high oil prices of 200X, making trillions for EU energy companies. EUrocrats though so high of their ability get anything magic pinata, which was Russia, that they though they don't have to engage with the outside world anymore, nor to keep vigilant with them. Crap cheap resources coming from Russia, widgets coming out, and money coming in — that was their simplistic worldview.
> 
> Few more years, and the transatlantic ties would've fallen completely.
> 
> These people still don't want to realise that they've been owned:
> 
> View attachment 849740​


That’s not true at all, America could have submitted Russian gas with Lng for slightly more. Yes prices will go up but where will Russia sell its oil?



Paul2 said:


> That doesn't change much about them selling hydrocarbons at too good to be true prices for too long to be a coincidence.
> 
> Same for Putin totally playing fools of EUrocrats.


Too good prices???
It’s a global market the eupieans weren’t getting some sweet deal while the rest of the world paid 5x, come on man you were wrong about the percentage and now you’re wrong about the price

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## RoadAmerica

NotSure said:


> Attention to what? Your murican propaganda?
> 
> Even with most basic education and knowlegde it's obvious, that the US can't have this information per se about the accuracy of russian missiles.
> 
> But then again: Education and americans, that's something like an oxymoron.


Way to debate the statistic 🙄
I’ll just be happy knowing you’re wrong and you can’t admit it 👍🏿


----------



## Viet

RoadAmerica said:


> That’s not true at all, America could have submitted Russian gas with Lng for slightly more. Yes prices will go up but where will Russia sell its oil?
> 
> 
> Too good prices???
> It’s a global market the eupieans weren’t getting some sweet deal while the rest of the world paid 5x, come on man you were wrong about the percentage and now you’re wrong about the price


Russia economy is just about selling oil and gas. Putin earns most money in selling oil to Europe. 450 million euros per day. If Europeans don’t buy Putin will become poor he has no choice but sells dirty cheap to China and India. Those countries will be drown in oil. Worse, without western technology imports russian oil infra will disintegrate over time. Putin will have less money for nazi hunting. The EU oil boycott will reduce Russian oil by 90 percent.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531682694492454913

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531683541104345088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531684334930993153


----------



## RoadAmerica

DF41 said:


> I strongly suggest the weapons USA and NATO been sending to Ukraine and captured by Russia should be send to Palestinians for their fight against the Israel Nazis who are bullying and killing Palestinians.
> 
> Let the fight there be an equal fight and not just slingshots and stones against the Israel Nazis bullets and machine guns and tanks and fighter jets.


🤣 slingshots and stones 🤣
Have you actually watched any of the Israeli conflicts in um 50 years??? The Palestinians are well armed by their sponsors

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## MeFishToo

jamahir said:


> This is clear message to Western mainstream media that it is Zelensky who is stubbornly causing all the stoppage of grain transport that NATO is blaming on Russia.


Exactly who or what is Russia supposed to protect the cargoships from? Let Ukraine worry about their mines and tell Lavrov no one cares about his lies anymore.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531697128698953734

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531697128698953734


Said that 3 days ago, whether Russia can capture Sieverodonetsk or not, their advance will be blunted. They are putting too much force in one place without replacement to rotate, that will not end well in the long run.

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## Nuclear Clown

letsrock said:


> west bombed korea in 1950.


Nope : it was an UN Force, and North-Korea was the aggressor... When you're the aggressor, don't complain when you're getting a beating, you just hadn't to start it! Moreover, it wasn't NoKo the only aggressor : China and the Soviets were FULL PART of the invasion of South Korea... 
Make no mistake : the Reds did the same on the South!!! 
S-Korea had 1 million civilians killed, the UN coalition ended with 200k military killed.
NoKo had 1.55M civilians killed, and NoKo+Soviets+Chinese say 400k-926k military killed, BUT considering the number of wounded being 686k vs. 566k for UN troops, it's inconsistent, the Reds obviously inflated their fatalities, both civilian and military, in order to play the victims when they were the aggressors in order to gain sympathy of left-leaning people... Putin does the same propaganda bias, so did Hitler before : 





And there were no precision guided weapons, satellites etc in those days, so you had to rely on artillery barrages and carpet bombing.
Well, the Russian military is about 40 years late on such weaponry so they go on doing such WW2 shit, razing cities, as a result, they slaughtered twice as much civilians in Mariupol than the naZi did all over WW2, actually, they're not even doing urban warfare, they just raze cities, just like Hitler or the Soviets used to do...
I hope we deliver the BONUS artillery shell to Ukraine, this will allow the CAESAR to demolish two vehicles incl MBTs or Howitzers per shell at 55km, even moving targets while standard shells have 1m accuracy. M777 can use the BONUS too, US-Army now even buys it from us, but M777 only has 40km range. I hope the HiMARS and M270 to come soon, so the Orcs won't have means to unleash artillery barrages as they'll be outgunned with super accurate long range rockets. 
In fact, I don't agree with Biden : let's provide Ukraine with cruise missiles able to reach Moscow : as long the Kremlin and the MoD+MFA won't be directly held accountable for their use of cruise/ballistic missiles against Ukrainian cities by themselves getting hit into Moscow, there won't be enough pressure.
It's high time they get a taste of their own medicine! No need to act barbaric like them: govt.+military targets are enough.
In fact, we should even consider providing 3 nukes to Ukraine: a 50kt to blow the Crimean bridge without damages to both Crimea and Russia, and two of 1 megaton, all into stealth cruise missiles. If Putin wants to escalate, one is for Moscow, the other for St.Pete. UA can always pretend an old general stashed some nukes and cruise missiles in 1994. The bridge can serve as a demonstration, I even know what missile to use : despite having been warned of where these would hit Syria and when, Russians were unable to detect, jam, spoof or intercept any of these.
In fact, even a single one as a demo may be enough: if the Kremlin believes Ukraine is nuclear again, and the bridge would show they're motivated at using it while being enough far to make it clear that Moscow can be nuked, this is a game changer : Russia is super-centralized : if Moscow and St.Pete go, Russia is game over, and they know it.
The problem with morons of the like of Putin, Erdogan, Hitler, etc, it's that they just understand force. 
That is why freedom shall NEVER be less armed than tyranny.


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## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> Said that 3 days ago, whether Russia can capture Sieverodonetsk or not, their advance will be blunted. They are putting too much force in one place without replacement to rotate, that will not end well in the long run.




Ukrainian forces are conducting a tactical retreat to defensive positions at Lyschansk. Higher ground, and flat open terrain from Severodonetsk. It’ll likely be much harder to move westward for Russian forces.

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## Nuclear Clown

jhungary said:


> Said that 3 days ago, whether Russia can capture Sieverodonetsk or not, their advance will be blunted. They are putting too much force in one place without replacement to rotate, that will not end well in the long run.


And now, just put the HiMARS/M270 and CAESAR out of the magic hat while they're all packed, then... 







Apollon said:


> Lowest birthrate in the world. Russia is dead and cant compete in any field. East will be taken by China sooner or later anyways.
> Evryone will feast on that carcass buddy. Not just NATO.


Unfortunately! China is way more dangerous. 
Thanks to its greed, ego and will to be in history books, Putin will be remembered as having destroyed Russia.


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## MeFishToo

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukrainian forces are conducting a tactical retreat to defensive positions at Lyschansk. Higher ground, and flat open terrain from Severodonetsk. It’ll likely be much harder to move westward for Russian forces.


Retreating from Severodonesk will eventually make it easier defending against the forces moving in from the southeast and northwest, as the river Donets becomes a natural defensive line to the entire north.
It may hurt, but It might buy the ukrainians some much need time and opportunity to get its defence back in order. Seems the ukrainian brigades have been spread all over the place to extinguish fire.


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## Nuclear Clown

DF41 said:


> I strongly suggest the weapons USA and NATO been sending to Ukraine and captured by Russia should be send to Palestinians for their fight against the Israel Nazis who are bullying and killing Palestinians.
> 
> Let the fight there be an equal fight and not just slingshots and stones against the Israel Nazis bullets and machine guns and tanks and fighter jets.







Funny fact: your Palestinians are absolute Nazism fanboys !!!!
Haj Amin al-Husseni, Yasser Arafat's uncle, also leader of the Ikhwan (AKA "Muslim Brotherhood", banned by most of Arab countries as a terrorist organisation) for the then Palestine mandate (which included Arab Palestine=Jordan, and Jewish Palestine=Israel), he was also the UK-appointed grand mufti of the al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem. The Ikhwan in Israel changed its name for Hamas. All senior al-Qaeda leaders were Ikhwan before founding AQ.



















Hezbollah, the Syrian Social Nationalist Party, don't try to hide their sympathies... 
*Following your logics, Russia should carpet bomb Palestinian cities :
BTW, let's look at the result of Israeli oppression on Palestinian cities :*




Ramallah: 




And even Bethlehem which is occupied by Palestinians who throw stones at Christian pilgrims because they are "kaffir"...




*Russian liberation of Ukraine : *

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## The SC

May 31, 2022







The Belgian prime minister urged the bloc to assess the impact of current measures before engaging in further discussions..
European Union Council President Charles Michel has confirmed that the bloc's member states have agreed in principle to a sixth round of sanctions against Russia, which includes a partial embargo on Russian oil. The sanctions were imposed in response to Moscow's military offensive in Ukraine..
Speaking to reporters ahead of the second day of the EU summit in Brussels, de Croo said that the impact of the oil sanctions would be "enormous" and therefore a "pause" was needed.
The Prime Minister said: "For Belgium, this package is a huge step forward, so let's stop there now and see its impact."
He added that the main priority now was to find the best way to "keep energy prices under control"..

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## Nuclear Clown

jamahir said:


> Apollon @F-22Raptor @Vergennes @Messerschmitt @mmr @Wood @Raffie, these are Putler's RuSSians who treat the real Nazis kindly ? There was a vid some weeks ago showing a sweet little girl in the arms of a Russian soldier who had liberated a city, asking him if he had killed the bad people and he said with a smile that no they don't kill the bad but try to convince them to become good.


* Children shown in ANYTHING political = 100% PROPAGANDA!!!*








BTW, you got your...


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## MeFishToo

All us westernes is a harbi residing in Dar al-Harb .. if you ask the right person. Most would probably just consider you another human living in a foreign country. 
Why this constant atrocities and mistakes of the past ping-pong leading nowhere.


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## F-22Raptor

MeFishToo said:


> Retreating from Severodonesk will eventually make it easier defending against the forces moving in from the southeast and northwest, as the river Donets becomes a natural defensive line to the entire north.
> It may hurt, but It might buy the ukrainians some much need time and opportunity to get its defence back in order. Seems the ukrainian brigades have been spread all over the place to extinguish fire.




Russia has taken a ton of forces from other axis and concentrated them at Severodonetsk. The Ukrainians were massively outnumbered. But the Russians were significantly degraded. They don’t have much offensive capability left, and the further west they move, the longer their supply lines are. 

The Russians are going to be in trouble once the HIMARS and M270s arrive. Their movement into Severodonetsk is largely due to their massed artillery. The HIMARS and M270s are highly accurate grid square eliminators.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukrainian forces are conducting a tactical retreat to defensive positions at Lyschansk. Higher ground, and flat open terrain from Severodonetsk. It’ll likely be much harder to move westward for Russian forces.




"*Tactical retreat*" means being driven out of Severodonetsk. This reminds me the "*evacuation*" claims from Western media in Mariupol when those Azov and other Ukrainian nationalist forces were actually surrendering. Nice try. You aint fooling those of us who have been paying attention.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531653077060661249

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia has taken a ton of forces from other axis and concentrated them at Severodonetsk. The Ukrainians were massively outnumbered. But the Russians were significantly degraded. They don’t have much offensive capability left, and the further west they move, the longer their supply lines are.
> 
> The Russians are going to be in trouble once the HIMARS and M270s arrive. Their movement into Severodonetsk is largely due to their massed artillery. The HIMARS and M270s are highly accurate grid square eliminators.




Excuse. Excuse. Excuse. HIMARS and M270s. HIMARS and M270s. HIMARS and M270s. HIMARS and M270s. This is getting to a comedy level. 

The Russians are capturing one city in the Donbas to the next. And once they fully liberate it, they'll set their eyes on the South.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531668759739609095

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531736640951025665

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531717598974513154

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## MeFishToo

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia has taken a ton of forces from other axis and concentrated them at Severodonetsk. The Ukrainians were massively outnumbered. But the Russians were significantly degraded. They don’t have much offensive capability left, and the further west they move, the longer their supply lines are.
> 
> The Russians are going to be in trouble once the HIMARS and M270s arrive. Their movement into Severodonetsk is largely due to their massed artillery. The HIMARS and M270s are highly accurate grid square eliminators.


I dont think Ukraine is going to put much effort into defending Severodonesk. More likely a slow retreat with some rear guard fighting.
And then regroup their shattered battalions in this area back to actual brigades again defending mostly against the russians making slowly advance from the south.
Small units with drones and artillery can cover this entire river from high ground south of donets

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531725499298365442

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531702130133942276

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## MeFishToo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Excuse. Excuse. Excuse. HIMARS and M270s. HIMARS and M270s. HIMARS and M270s. HIMARS and M270s. This is getting to a comedy level.
> 
> The Russians are capturing one city in the Donbas to the next. And once they fully liberate it, they'll set their eyes on the South.


Still no time to admit Severedonsk hadnt falled to the russian forces and chechen wannabee SOF operators a few days back?


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531638705986879489


MeFishToo said:


> Still no time to admit Severedonsk hadnt falled to the russian forces and chechen wannabee SOF operators a few days back?





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531725499298365442

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531698888205291522

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531655842633768960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531636116234899457

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531702130133942276


Theyre going to need a lot of boats to reach Lycychansk. Notice some high ground across the river they need to pass? Any attempt by Russia is pointless. Would by like shooting diary cows with a high powered telescope rifle.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531563303918620674

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531544998424068096

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> "*Tactical retreat*" means being driven out of Severodonetsk. This reminds me the "*evacuation*" claims from Western media in Mariupol when those Azov and other Ukrainian nationalist forces were actually surrendering. Nice try. You aint fooling those of us who have been paying attention.




Yes a tactical retreat. Their trading space for time. Severodonetsk holds little military or strategic value. It’s a tiny city, and Russian forces are being degraded. Lyschansk is much easier to defend from. 

Meanwhile Ukrainian forces are breaking through Russian lines outside Kherson.

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## MeFishToo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531638705986879489
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531725499298365442


Posting pictures 2-3 days later of them playing tourists in the rear, doesnt tell us anything, except what we already know. Yes, russian forces are now in Severodonesk, and so are ukrainians.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531530473142423553

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531702813910355969

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Excuse. Excuse. Excuse. HIMARS and M270s. HIMARS and M270s. HIMARS and M270s. HIMARS and M270s. This is getting to a comedy level.
> 
> The Russians are capturing one city in the Donbas to the next. And once they fully liberate it, they'll set their eyes on the South.




Yes M270s and HIMARS. 








These are the ranges of both, and those rockets have 5m CEPs at 5-6 volleys per hour. 

Smerch can only fire one volley per hour.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531713192069668864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531681785159028736

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531700580023934979

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531665585926508550

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## MeFishToo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531713192069668864


One could argue Russia is expanding towards NATO fullforce. Why is Putin in such a hurry to share borders with NATO?
Let me guess. Russias chances of annexing land in Ukraine was dwindling, and NATO precense would have made it impossible, så he had to act now or never.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531704289000837120


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## MeFishToo

Russia is halting gas to Denmark too. We had no rubles to give Russia, so Russia broke the deal. Word is the danish supply compagny were happy to see russia break this long term deal.

Their is no ban on gas, so companies are free to go by the russian solution.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531745980785229824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531745985164201986


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## SecularNationalist

Apollon said:


> I doubt that. We talk about Russia, not about a developed country. Ukraine is flooded with weapons, and russians are killed like flies evrywhere there. They even bombed installed governors when visiting their mother.
> 
> 
> The ukrainians absolute hate and despise the russians.
> 
> Its important now to use their weakness to support other people inside russia who want Independence. Quite easy to blow up caucasus region.


Yeah, you also doubted that Russia didn't have the balls to invade Ukraine or take any territory from Ukraine. You doubt that Russia is one of the major global and European powers. Losses are part of any war you little Sherlock.
Those are no doubts but shocks to you 
Caucaus lol forget about it. Most Russians voluntary supporting this war are from Caucasus and Chechnya.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531736845662420995

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531729101354057728

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## The SC

Destroyed nationalists from the 63rd Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Nikolaev-Kherson.​



Spoiler: Graphic

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531724314357243906


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## The SC

Paramilitaries in Ukraine - How Ramzan Kadyrov and Chechen mercenaries shape the war | DW News​


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531717159562403841

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531696264521318405

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531691366761259008


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## The SC

Where is the Russian Air Force?​The Mystery of the Russian Air Force in Ukraine. Why the Russian do not acquire the air superiority and raze Ukraine to the ground? Well, they sort of did.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531694339314835463







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531550604274933760

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## RoadAmerica

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531725499298365442


At best there are a couple thousand Chechens fighting, let’s be honest they’re not contributing much other than propaganda


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531530389809938433

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531516473163882496

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## RoadAmerica

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531713192069668864
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531681785159028736


Scotty’s baaaack 🤣


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## The SC

Neither the president nor anyone from the leadership of Russia has foreign property, accounts and interests abroad - Medvedev

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531562878834294784


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## letsrock

Raffie said:


> Nope : it was an UN Force, and North-Korea was the aggressor... When you're the aggressor, don't complain when you're getting a beating, you just hadn't to start it! Moreover, it wasn't NoKo the only aggressor : China and the Soviets were FULL PART of the invasion of South Korea...
> Make no mistake : the Reds did the same on the South!!!
> S-Korea had 1 million civilians killed, the UN coalition ended with 200k military killed.
> NoKo had 1.55M civilians killed, and NoKo+Soviets+Chinese say 400k-926k military killed, BUT considering the number of wounded being 686k vs. 566k for UN troops, it's inconsistent, the Reds obviously inflated their fatalities, both civilian and military, in order to play the victims when they were the aggressors in order to gain sympathy of left-leaning people... Putin does the same propaganda bias, so did Hitler before :
> View attachment 849834
> 
> And there were no precision guided weapons, satellites etc in those days, so you had to rely on artillery barrages and carpet bombing.
> Well, the Russian military is about 40 years late on such weaponry so they go on doing such WW2 shit, razing cities, as a result, they slaughtered twice as much civilians in Mariupol than the naZi did all over WW2, actually, they're not even doing urban warfare, they just raze cities, just like Hitler or the Soviets used to do...
> I hope we deliver the BONUS artillery shell to Ukraine, this will allow the CAESAR to demolish two vehicles incl MBTs or Howitzers per shell at 55km, even moving targets while standard shells have 1m accuracy. M777 can use the BONUS too, US-Army now even buys it from us, but M777 only has 40km range. I hope the HiMARS and M270 to come soon, so the Orcs won't have means to unleash artillery barrages as they'll be outgunned with super accurate long range rockets.
> In fact, I don't agree with Biden : let's provide Ukraine with cruise missiles able to reach Moscow : as long the Kremlin and the MoD+MFA won't be directly held accountable for their use of cruise/ballistic missiles against Ukrainian cities by themselves getting hit into Moscow, there won't be enough pressure.
> It's high time they get a taste of their own medicine! No need to act barbaric like them: govt.+military targets are enough.
> In fact, we should even consider providing 3 nukes to Ukraine: a 50kt to blow the Crimean bridge without damages to both Crimea and Russia, and two of 1 megaton, all into stealth cruise missiles. If Putin wants to escalate, one is for Moscow, the other for St.Pete. UA can always pretend an old general stashed some nukes and cruise missiles in 1994. The bridge can serve as a demonstration, I even know what missile to use : despite having been warned of where these would hit Syria and when, Russians were unable to detect, jam, spoof or intercept any of these.
> In fact, even a single one as a demo may be enough: if the Kremlin believes Ukraine is nuclear again, and the bridge would show they're motivated at using it while being enough far to make it clear that Moscow can be nuked, this is a game changer : Russia is super-centralized : if Moscow and St.Pete go, Russia is game over, and they know it.
> The problem with morons of the like of Putin, Erdogan, Hitler, etc, it's that they just understand force.
> That is why freedom shall NEVER be less armed than tyranny.


Simply adding rhetoric doesnt change the reality - that people who were not even seen as human in west ( by law then) were bombed indiscriminately. The UN resolution then was passed without presence of Soviet Union and china was represented ridiculously by Taiwan. Also what is north korea "invading" south korea - both are koreas. how can Korea invade Korea.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531374275306917888


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## Nuclear Clown

jamahir said:


> I understand that there are nuclear shells that can be fitted onto medium-sized mobile guns but to what end ? Russia went to war just for such a thing other than deNazify. USA government has now refused to supply Zelensky with rocketry that have range to reach Russia because it will make Russia target USA directly and here you are saying NATO should arm Zelensky with nuclear warheads ?


Actually, a 10t-1 kiloton variable yield W54 weighted 23kg for about 30cm diameter. With thermonuclears, the weight to yield ratio is 4 Megaton per ton => 250kg= 1Mt, see the W59... We can reduce the weight and even making clean thermonuclears by replacing the 4.4kg of Pu239 used as a 1st stage primmer (you need a small A-bomb to trigger a H-bomb) by a little antimatter so cheap fuel like liquid deuterium can go fusion w.o an A-Bomb.
Binden doesn't wants to supply stuff that may strike Moscow for totally different reasons.

He perfectly knows that the Russians won't dare attacking the USA directly, BTW, they long brought stuff allowing Iran to attack US militaries in the Mid-East and the Soviets backed ALL terrorism against the West until Gorbachev came to power.
The real reason is the same USA drags feet on some deliveries and even refused that NATO taking care of transferring Poland's MiG-29s : 
the goal is NOT the Russian invasion being promptly defeated !!!
Biden's goal is to weaken Russian military as well as f*ck-up its international status...
Even the arms sales are to fall : Russia has already lost half of its modern tanks, UVZ and ChVZ have even stopped production as targetting systems need western parts, so is it for the laser designation systems on aircraft : it's a licence-built outdated Thales Damocles, you need EU-made parts...
But with the turret throwing contest and Sukhois unable to achieve air superiority or SEAD, who wants to buy a T-90 or a Su-35 while a Soviet-era MiG-29 has just shot down a brand new Su-35?
How d'you think Russia's best client that is India feels?
BTW, Rafale is eating all Russian jets' traditional turf... and for good reasons: US even need to rig the competitions to sell their F-35... 

By proceeding this way, Biden is dragging the Russian military into a total quagmire with gigantic gear losses, and 2 more months and they end with as much fatalities in 5-6 months as USA over 10 years in Vietnam! Moreover, Russia is not even attacking a serious client: Poland or Greece are way more powerful than Ukraine!!! 
Moreover, 50-60% of Russia's exports normally go to the EU which actually prevented Russia from collapsing when the USSR crashed, and this was despite a trade deficit because, hey, what Russia imports from the EU is nowhere near what EU purchases from Russia and closed the eyes on many of Putin's and even Yeltsin's abuses...
Meanwhile Putin is doing shit, even interfering into EU' domestic policy by funding neo-fascists and neo-Nazi political-parties into the EU...



RoadAmerica said:


> The Russians have had Europe blackmailed for 20 years by cheap gas and they’ve been too stupid, corrupt you name it to look for other sources.
> 
> How’d that helicopter carrier France was going to sell to Russia work out? Best buds with Putler right 🤷🏿‍♂️


*There were two, we sold'em to Egypt*, and the sale was suspended as soon they invaded Crimea in 2014! There were no reasons to refuse when the contract was penned, before Killary/Obongo started to put pressure on Russia, they were willing to anchor with the west, including the EU and NATO, see _*NATO Partnership for Peace*_ :
Russia is still in, as well as in another NATO institution, the _*Euro-Atlantic Partnership Council*_...

This is what happens when USA blocks ITAR certificates on spare parts for the C13-2 catapults, E-2C Hawkeye, E-3F Sentry to piss off France as well as pressuring its traditional clients away from buying Rafale, BTW, when you ruin our business in Iraq or our submarine sales to Australia, well, we have industries to run. I think we should resume proliferation, e.g. selling nukes to Taiwan, Korea, as well as creating an EU nuclear sharing : you crossed the Rubycon by selling nuclear submarines to Australia...
BTW, It was USA that funded the Vietminh and the Algerian FLN against us, both later turned to the Soviets against you and YOU created al-Qaeda. WE made the existence of the USA possible in 1775, you helped all European monarchies at crushing the young French Republic as soon as 1793... You were nowhere to be seen on any WW1 battlefield until July 1918, and it took you from 1939 to June 6th 1944 to remember where your oldest ally was located on a map during WW2, so, a good advise : never lecture your daddy who changed your diapers or be reminded the smell of your poo right under your nose... 

Then, without USA's interferences, Ukraine would have started receiving Rafales for about 2-3 years now, but hey, you freaking want 100% of the market! You already have 85% of the NATO market for jet fighters whle not even selling the best ones, still not enough?

Then, what d'you think about the _*US training of Russian VDV paratroopers in Colorado*_?

Oh, BTW, you surely remember PEGIDA mass protests in Germany a few years ago? Do you know how these stopped? How funny, Merkel expelled ALL CIA operatives in the country. 4 weeks later, their weekly mass protests had shrunk to a few dozens of looneys...
And whatabout NSA taping the phones of all EU leaders and major business? 

BTW, all this mess in Ukraine was caused by an US foreign policy named "Global Energy Dominance", this is why you did put pressure on Russia knowing that, as usual, they'd go bonkers and do something stupid !!!!
It's also why you corner Venezuela and fucked-up Libya or Iraq...
Now you're cornering Russia, how funny, Iran is no more under sanctions and has near tripled its economy and entered the G20... Now guess why MBS and MBZ refuse to talk to Biden and my 2cts Bennett is furious too! 
Be aware that they're absolutely entitled at taking direct actions on Iran, accordingly to the Hague Convention, since Iran's proxies attack them all, and it's very probably in the pipeline, likely once UAE gets a few Rafales since the 4 Rezonans OTHRs Putn sold to Iran "see" F-35...

You'd better stop such little games on allies at US level, and at yours at starting lecturing your partners

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## RoadAmerica

Raffie said:


> Actually, a 10t-1 kiloton variable yield W54 weighted 23kg for about 30cm diameter. With thermonuclears, the weight to yield ratio is 4 Megaton per ton => 250kg= 1Mt, see the W59... We can reduce the weight and even making clean thermonuclears by replacing the 4.4kg of Pu239 used as a 1st stage primmer (you need a small A-bomb to trigger a H-bomb) by a little antimatter so cheap fuel like liquid deuterium can go fusion w.o an A-Bomb.
> Binden doesn't wants to supply stuff that may strike Moscow for totally different reasons.
> 
> He perfectly knows that the Russians won't dare attacking the USA directly, BTW, they long brought stuff allowing Iran to attack US militaries in the Mid-East and the Soviets backed ALL terrorism against the West until Gorbachev came to power.
> The real reason is the same USA drags feet on some deliveries and even refused that NATO taking care of transferring Poland's MiG-29s :
> the goal is NOT the Russian invasion being promptly defeated !!!
> Biden's goal is to weaken Russian military as well as f*ck-up its international status...
> Even the arms sales are to fall : Russia has already lost half of its modern tanks, UVZ and ChVZ have even stopped production as targetting systems need western parts, so is it for the laser designation systems on aircraft : it's a licence-built outdated Thales Damocles, you need EU-made parts...
> But with the turret throwing contest and Sukhois unable to achieve air superiority or SEAD, who wants to buy a T-90 or a Su-35 while a Soviet-era MiG-29 has just shot down a brand new Su-35?
> How d'you think Russia's best client that is India feels?
> BTW, Rafale is eating all Russian jets' traditional turf... and for good reasons: US even need to rig the competitions to sell their F-35...
> 
> By proceeding this way, Biden is dragging the Russian military into a total quagmire with gigantic gear losses, and 2 more months and they end with as much fatalities in 5-6 months as USA over 10 years in Vietnam! Moreover, Russia is not even attacking a serious client: Poland or Greece are way more powerful than Ukraine!!!
> Moreover, 50-60% of Russia's exports normally go to the EU which actually prevented Russia from collapsing when the USSR crashed, and this was despite a trade deficit because, hey, what Russia imports from the EU is nowhere near what EU purchases from Russia and closed the eyes on many of Putin's and even Yeltsin's abuses...
> Meanwhile Putin is doing shit, even interfering into EU' domestic policy by funding neo-fascists and neo-Nazi political-parties into the EU...
> 
> 
> *There were two, we sold'em to Egypt*, and the sale was suspended as soon they invaded Crimea in 2014! There were no reasons to refuse when the contract was penned, before Killary/Obongo started to put pressure on Russia, they were willing to anchor with the west, including the EU and NATO, see _*NATO Partnership for Peace*_ :
> Russia is still in, as well as in another NATO institution, the _*Euro-Atlantic Partnership Council*_...
> 
> This is what happens when USA blocks ITAR certificates on spare parts for the C13-2 catapults, E-2C Hawkeye, E-3F Sentry to piss off France as well as pressuring its traditional clients away from buying Rafale, BTW, when you ruin our business in Iraq or our submarine sales to Australia, well, we have industries to run. I think we should resume proliferation, e.g. selling nukes to Taiwan, Korea, as well as creating an EU nuclear sharing : you crossed the Rubycon by selling nuclear submarines to Australia...
> BTW, It was USA that funded the Vietminh and the Algerian FLN against us, both later turned to the Soviets against you and YOU created al-Qaeda. WE made the existence of the USA possible in 1775, you helped all European monarchies at crushing the young French Republic as soon as 1793... You were nowhere to be seen on any WW1 battlefield until July 1918, and it took you from 1939 to June 6th 1944 to remember where your oldest ally was located on a map during WW2, so, a good advise : never lecture your daddy who changed your diapers or be reminded the smell of your poo right under your nose...
> 
> Then, without USA's interferences, Ukraine would have started receiving Rafales for about 2-3 years now, but hey, you freaking want 100% of the market! You already have 85% of the NATO market for jet fighters whle not even selling the best ones, still not enough?
> 
> Then, what d'you think about the _*US training of Russian VDV paratroopers in Colorado*_?
> 
> Oh, BTW, you surely remember PEGIDA mass protests in Germany a few years ago? Do you know how these stopped? How funny, Merkel expelled ALL CIA operatives in the country. 4 weeks later, their weekly mass protests had shrunk to a few dozens of looneys...
> And whatabout NSA taping the phones of all EU leaders and major business?
> 
> BTW, all this mess in Ukraine was caused by an US foreign policy named "Global Energy Dominance", this is why you did put pressure on Russia knowing that, as usual, they'd go bonkers and do something stupid !!!!
> It's also why you corner Venezuela and fucked-up Libya or Iraq...
> Now you're cornering Russia, how funny, Iran is no more under sanctions and has near tripled its economy and entered the G20... Now guess why MBS and MBZ refuse to talk to Biden and my 2cts Bennett is furious too!
> Be aware that they're absolutely entitled at taking direct actions on Iran, accordingly to the Hague Convention, since Iran's proxies attack them all, and it's very probably in the pipeline, likely once UAE gets a few Rafales since the 4 Rezonans OTHRs Putn sold to Iran "see" F-35...
> 
> You'd better stop such little games on allies at US level, and at yours at starting lecturing your partners


Well let’s just say Putin didn’t change, the 2 helicopter carriers should never have been built for Russia France was just looking for money just like the Germans have been getting cheap gas. I’m no fan of Obama, actually the worst president ever imo, but France thought they could get rich by supplying the enemy now Egypt can sit on those as they have little use for them.


----------



## The SC

Star Link and some of the spoils the Russians, took it from Lyman

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Wow Wow:
1


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## RoadAmerica

Raffie said:


> Actually, a 10t-1 kiloton variable yield W54 weighted 23kg for about 30cm diameter. With thermonuclears, the weight to yield ratio is 4 Megaton per ton => 250kg= 1Mt, see the W59... We can reduce the weight and even making clean thermonuclears by replacing the 4.4kg of Pu239 used as a 1st stage primmer (you need a small A-bomb to trigger a H-bomb) by a little antimatter so cheap fuel like liquid deuterium can go fusion w.o an A-Bomb.
> Binden doesn't wants to supply stuff that may strike Moscow for totally different reasons.
> 
> He perfectly knows that the Russians won't dare attacking the USA directly, BTW, they long brought stuff allowing Iran to attack US militaries in the Mid-East and the Soviets backed ALL terrorism against the West until Gorbachev came to power.
> The real reason is the same USA drags feet on some deliveries and even refused that NATO taking care of transferring Poland's MiG-29s :
> the goal is NOT the Russian invasion being promptly defeated !!!
> Biden's goal is to weaken Russian military as well as f*ck-up its international status...
> Even the arms sales are to fall : Russia has already lost half of its modern tanks, UVZ and ChVZ have even stopped production as targetting systems need western parts, so is it for the laser designation systems on aircraft : it's a licence-built outdated Thales Damocles, you need EU-made parts...
> But with the turret throwing contest and Sukhois unable to achieve air superiority or SEAD, who wants to buy a T-90 or a Su-35 while a Soviet-era MiG-29 has just shot down a brand new Su-35?
> How d'you think Russia's best client that is India feels?
> BTW, Rafale is eating all Russian jets' traditional turf... and for good reasons: US even need to rig the competitions to sell their F-35...
> 
> By proceeding this way, Biden is dragging the Russian military into a total quagmire with gigantic gear losses, and 2 more months and they end with as much fatalities in 5-6 months as USA over 10 years in Vietnam! Moreover, Russia is not even attacking a serious client: Poland or Greece are way more powerful than Ukraine!!!
> Moreover, 50-60% of Russia's exports normally go to the EU which actually prevented Russia from collapsing when the USSR crashed, and this was despite a trade deficit because, hey, what Russia imports from the EU is nowhere near what EU purchases from Russia and closed the eyes on many of Putin's and even Yeltsin's abuses...
> Meanwhile Putin is doing shit, even interfering into EU' domestic policy by funding neo-fascists and neo-Nazi political-parties into the EU...
> 
> 
> *There were two, we sold'em to Egypt*, and the sale was suspended as soon they invaded Crimea in 2014! There were no reasons to refuse when the contract was penned, before Killary/Obongo started to put pressure on Russia, they were willing to anchor with the west, including the EU and NATO, see _*NATO Partnership for Peace*_ :
> Russia is still in, as well as in another NATO institution, the _*Euro-Atlantic Partnership Council*_...
> 
> This is what happens when USA blocks ITAR certificates on spare parts for the C13-2 catapults, E-2C Hawkeye, E-3F Sentry to piss off France as well as pressuring its traditional clients away from buying Rafale, BTW, when you ruin our business in Iraq or our submarine sales to Australia, well, we have industries to run. I think we should resume proliferation, e.g. selling nukes to Taiwan, Korea, as well as creating an EU nuclear sharing : you crossed the Rubycon by selling nuclear submarines to Australia...
> BTW, It was USA that funded the Vietminh and the Algerian FLN against us, both later turned to the Soviets against you and YOU created al-Qaeda. WE made the existence of the USA possible in 1775, you helped all European monarchies at crushing the young French Republic as soon as 1793... You were nowhere to be seen on any WW1 battlefield until July 1918, and it took you from 1939 to June 6th 1944 to remember where your oldest ally was located on a map during WW2, so, a good advise : never lecture your daddy who changed your diapers or be reminded the smell of your poo right under your nose...
> 
> Then, without USA's interferences, Ukraine would have started receiving Rafales for about 2-3 years now, but hey, you freaking want 100% of the market! You already have 85% of the NATO market for jet fighters whle not even selling the best ones, still not enough?
> 
> Then, what d'you think about the _*US training of Russian VDV paratroopers in Colorado*_?
> 
> Oh, BTW, you surely remember PEGIDA mass protests in Germany a few years ago? Do you know how these stopped? How funny, Merkel expelled ALL CIA operatives in the country. 4 weeks later, their weekly mass protests had shrunk to a few dozens of looneys...
> And whatabout NSA taping the phones of all EU leaders and major business?
> 
> BTW, all this mess in Ukraine was caused by an US foreign policy named "Global Energy Dominance", this is why you did put pressure on Russia knowing that, as usual, they'd go bonkers and do something stupid !!!!
> It's also why you corner Venezuela and fucked-up Libya or Iraq...
> Now you're cornering Russia, how funny, Iran is no more under sanctions and has near tripled its economy and entered the G20... Now guess why MBS and MBZ refuse to talk to Biden and my 2cts Bennett is furious too!
> Be aware that they're absolutely entitled at taking direct actions on Iran, accordingly to the Hague Convention, since Iran's proxies attack them all, and it's very probably in the pipeline, likely once UAE gets a few Rafales since the 4 Rezonans OTHRs Putn sold to Iran "see" F-35...
> 
> You'd better stop such little games on allies at US level, and at yours at starting lecturing your partners


Oh and I scanned the rest, pretty much a blame America paragraph. Please don’t tell me you actually think the Rafael is better than the f-35 or f-22? The f-35 has more computing power than any modern fighter and the Rafael isn’t even stealth

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Nuclear Clown

letsrock said:


> Simply adding rhetoric doesnt change the reality - that people who were not even seen as human in west ( by law then) were bombed indiscriminately. The UN resolution then was passed without presence of Soviet Union and china was represented ridiculously by Taiwan. Also what is north korea "invading" south korea - both are koreas. how can Korea invade Korea.


That's exactly what you're doing : adding rhetoric.
In 1910, Korea was annexed by the Empire of Japan. In 1945, after the Japanese surrender at the end of World War II, Korea was divided into two zones along the 38th parallel, with the north occupied by the Soviet Union and the south occupied by the United States. Negotiations on reunification failed, and in 1948, separate governments were formed: the socialist and Soviet-aligned DPRK in the north, and the capitalist, Western-aligned Republic of Korea in the south. The Korean War began in 1950, with an invasion by North Korea, and lasted to 1953.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531211342312505346

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531156820810686464
These are the equivalent of the US A-10s.. tank killers..

Reactions: Sad Sad:
1


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## letsrock

Raffie said:


> That's exactly what you're doing : adding rhetoric.
> In 1910, Korea was annexed by the Empire of Japan. In 1945, after the Japanese surrender at the end of World War II, Korea was divided into two zones along the 38th parallel, with the north occupied by the Soviet Union and the south occupied by the United States. Negotiations on reunification failed, and in 1948, separate governments were formed: the socialist and Soviet-aligned DPRK in the north, and the capitalist, Western-aligned Republic of Korea in the south. The Korean War began in 1950, with an invasion by North Korea, and lasted to 1953.


I think you lack the maturity to understand the difference between an invasion and a civil war. ALmost everything you say is just baseless rhetoric - with no real meaning but tons of words.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531266342749458438

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531340997879336963

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531336050462834690

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## SalarHaqq



Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531768066681577472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531724202524520449

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531627246024282115

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531754107660382208

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## SalarHaqq

*Interview with Youssef Hindi 

Ukraine is considered by a number of Israeli Jews as their property

Arthur Sapaudia: Dear Youssef, thank you for granting me this interview. When did you start to take an interest in the issues that concern you, that is to say, among others, Zionism, the clash of civilizations, Jewish messianism, secularism... What was your trigger? 

Youssef Hindi: *There was no trigger. I have been interested in politics, history, sociology, anthropology, geopolitics and many other fields since adolescence. I made a name for myself with my first book, _Occident et Islam – Tome 1: Sources_ _et genèse messianiques du Sionisme_ (2015, ed. Sigest), which is the result of my research on the religious origins of Zionism whose official history traced its birth to the late 19th century in the mind of Herzl, a Jewish atheist. My research on the subject, started ten years ago, was motivated by historiographical shortcomings in the genealogy of Zionism. This is what led me to study Jewish messianism and Jewish mysticism (the Kabbalah) about ten years ago. This is how I discovered the origins of Zionism and the strategy of the clash of civilizations. At the same time, I opened other research projects and wrote nine books in total to date.

*Who are your precursors in the fields mentioned and what books would you recommend reading in addition to yours? *

On the messianic origins of Zionism and the strategy of the clash of civilizations, I am the first, to my knowledge, to have traced its genealogy, from the 13th century to the present day. But like any researcher, I am not starting from scratch. Authors have allowed me, by their contributions as much as by their shortcomings, to advance and direct my research. Among them is the historian Shlomo Sand who believed that Zionism was born in the English millenarian Protestant circles of the 17th century. It was my disagreement with him, upon reading his 2008 book, _The Invention of the Jewish People_, that prompted me to research the Jewish origins of Zionism. He argued that the Zionist project could not have been born in the Jewish tradition since the Talmud forbade the return of the Jewish people to the Holy Land. And he believed, like Thierry Meyssan after him, that the idea of repatriating the Jewish people to Palestine to hasten the coming of the Messiah was exclusively Protestant millenarian. My intuition told me that these Protestant millennials had been influenced by Jewish messianism. It was not difficult for me to demonstrate. But the most difficult thing was to discover how this messianic Zionist project had emerged in the Jewish world.

A few years later, I read the fascinating book by the great reporter Douglas Reed, _The Controversy of Zion_, which he wrote in the 1950s. Douglas Reed saw that Zionism had its roots in the Jewish religion, but he could not demonstrate it. His mistake was to link Zionism to the Talmud, while the latter forbids the return of Jews to the Holy Land before the arrival of the Messiah of the Jews. In defense of Douglas Reed, he was not a research historian or specialist in Judaism, and had no knowledge of Kabbalah; his book is, as he wrote in conclusion, a testimony that future historians had to validate with evidence.

It was then that I began to study the history, concepts and evolution of Jewish mysticism (the Kabbalah) and messianism, because I sensed that it was in this current that I would find the origins of the zionist project. So I immersed myself in the books of Gershom Scholem which were very useful to me in understanding Kabbalah and messianism. But there again, Scholem did not link Zionism to Kabbalah and messianism. And I had to do more precise research on key periods and characters to resolve this “historical problem”.

*It is very difficult for a neophyte to distinguish between Gnosis, Kabbalah, messianism, alchemy, magic... How do you find your way around and what would be their common basis?*

Kabbalah was strongly influenced by Gnosticism which originated from beliefs coming from both ancient Persian religion [Mazdeism], Greek religion and certainly other beliefs from both the Mediterranean and India via Mesopotamia. Kabbalah is composed of several branches: apocalyptic, cosmology, angelology, demonology and magic. As for Jewish messianism, it has, over the centuries, been largely penetrated by the Kabbalah. But I strongly advise against venturing into the study of Kabbalah for those who do not have a solid theological foundation. They will get lost there.

*Do you think what is happening currently in Ukraine is an integral part of active messianism? *

As I explained recently1, it is first of all about the geopolitical confrontation between the United States and Russia. This is the old strategy of the Anglo-American thalassocratic power, one of the main objectives of which is to take control of Eurasia. A project that is naturally opposed by Russia, a tellurocratic power, threatened with destruction. But Jewish messianism is not far away. Ukraine is considered by a number of Israeli Jews as their property. Moreover, President Zelinski is himself a Jew, just like his master, the billionaire Igor Kolomoiski (holder of Ukrainian, Israeli and Cypriot citizenship) who financed the neo-Nazi battalions of Ukraine. Kolomoiski also lives in Israel.

In an article published in September 2015, I analyzed the Zionist strategy vis-à-vis Russia2, which was combined with US geostrategy. Israel, via the pro-Israeli lobby3, uses, in particular since the turning point of September 11, 2001, the United States and NATO as a tool for the destruction of Russia's historical allies in the Middle East, which leads to even greater animosity between Russians and Americans.

At the same time, the Zionist leaders are trying, through intermediaries, to negotiate with Russia so that it abandons its Syrian and Iranian allies. In July 2013, Prince Bandar, as a representative of Saudi Arabia (Israel's ally), met with Vladimir Putin during the Syrian crisis. During the talks, Bandar allegedly proposed an economic, oil and gas agreement to Vladimir Putin, in exchange of which he would have to let go of Iran, abandon President Assad and deliver Syria to terrorists4. At the time, I analyzed the fire lit a few months later in Ukraine as an American-Israeli response to the Russian refusal. Moreover, Israel was preparing to deliver weapons to Ukraine a month or two after the start of the civil war. Putin then warned the Jewish state.

1 https://strategika.fr/2022/02/26/le...tan-russie-conference-audio-de-youssef-hindi/
2 http://www.geopolintel.fr/article970.html
3 John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt, The pro-Israel lobby and American foreign policy, La Découverte, 2007.
4 Al Manar, “What was not revealed about the stormy Bandar-Putin encounter”, August 21, 2013.
5 Sputnik, “Putin warns Israel against arms deliveries to Kyiv”, 18 April 2015.

https://sapaudia.org/2022/03/07/entretien-avec-youssef-hindi-03-22/

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## F-22Raptor

*Moscow’s concentration on seizing Severodonetsk and Donbas generally continues to create vulnerabilities for Russia in Ukraine’s vital Kherson Oblast, where Ukrainian counter-offensives continue. *Kherson is critical terrain because it is the only area of Ukraine in which Russian forces hold ground on the west bank of the Dnipro River. If Russia is able to retain a strong lodgment in Kherson when fighting stops it will be in a very strong position from which to launch a future invasion. If Ukraine regains Kherson, on the other hand, Ukraine will be in a much stronger position to defend itself against future Russian attack. This strategic calculus should in principle lead Russia to allocate sufficient combat power to hold Kherson. But Russian President Vladimir Putin has chosen instead to concentrate all the forces and resources that can be scraped together in a desperate and bloody push to seize areas of eastern Ukraine that will give him largely symbolic gains. Continuing successful Ukrainian counter-offensives in Kherson indicate that Ukraine’s commanders recognize these realities and are taking advantage of the vulnerabilities that Putin’s decisions have created.

*The Ukrainian leadership has apparently wisely avoided matching Putin’s mistaken prioritization. *Kyiv could have committed more reserves and resources to the defense of Severodonetsk, and its failure to do so has drawn criticism.[1] Ukrainian forces are now apparently withdrawing from Severodonetsk rather than fighting to the end—a factor that has allowed the Russians to move into the city relatively rapidly after beginning their full-scale assault.[2] Both the decision to avoid committing more resources to saving Severodonetsk and the decision to withdraw from it were strategically sound, however painful. Ukraine must husband its more limited resources and focus on regaining critical terrain rather than on defending ground whose control will not determine the outcome of the war or the conditions for the renewal of war.

*Sound Ukrainian prioritization of counter-offensive and defensive operations pushed the Russians almost out of artillery range of Kharkiv City and have stopped the Russian advances from Izyum—both of which are more important accomplishments than the defense of Severodonetsk. *Ukraine’s leadership has had to make incredibly difficult choices in this war and has generally made the right ones, at least at the level of strategic prioritization and in the pace, scale, and ambitiousness of its counter-offensives. *That is why Ukraine still has a good chance to stop and then reverse the gains Russia is currently making.



https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-31


*


----------



## Hakwa Nadro

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531729101354057728


should make thousands of copies of this video and send to all the neo-nazis around the world including the proud boys and bhakts

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
2 | Haha Haha:
1


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## The SC

Ukraine on the way to receive French *Spy'Ranger* drones











__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530862803006984192


----------



## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531620184896811009



A russian engineering unit was ambushed by ukrainian special forces


----------



## The SC

RoadAmerica said:


> At best there are a couple thousand Chechens fighting, let’s be honest they’re not contributing much other than propaganda


The Chechens are monsters who are one of the stars of this war..

Their competence of urban warfare are never to be denied, so ambushes and defensive methods do not work in guerrilla warfare with them. This is their main specialty even before their involvement in the Russian army.. Experience and continuous training were in their favor, not equipment or preparation. They are groups that depend on the capabilities, experience and competence of individuals more than the quality of equipment they Possess or their number..

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5


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531785147611090944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531780242028736512

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

SalarHaqq said:


> *Interview with Youssef Hindi
> 
> Ukraine is considered by a number of Israeli Jews as their property
> 
> Arthur Sapaudia: Dear Youssef, thank you for granting me this interview. When did you start to take an interest in the issues that concern you, that is to say, among others, Zionism, the clash of civilizations, Jewish messianism, secularism... What was your trigger?
> 
> Youssef Hindi: *There was no trigger. I have been interested in politics, history, sociology, anthropology, geopolitics and many other fields since adolescence. I made a name for myself with my first book, Occident et Islam – Tome 1: Sources et genèse messianiques du Sionisme (2015, ed. Sigest), which is the result of my research on the religious origins of Zionism whose official history traced its birth to the late 19th century in the mind of Herzl, a Jewish atheist. My research on the subject, started ten years ago, was motivated by historiographical shortcomings in the genealogy of Zionism. This is what led me to study Jewish messianism and Jewish mysticism (the Kabbalah) about ten years ago. This is how I discovered the origins of Zionism and the strategy of the clash of civilizations. At the same time, I opened other research projects and wrote nine books in total to date.
> 
> *Who are your precursors in the fields mentioned and what books would you recommend reading in addition to yours? *
> 
> On the messianic origins of Zionism and the strategy of the clash of civilizations, I am the first, to my knowledge, to have traced its genealogy, from the 13th century to the present day. But like any researcher, I am not starting from scratch. Authors have allowed me, by their contributions as much as by their shortcomings, to advance and direct my research. Among them is the historian Shlomo Sand who believed that Zionism was born in the English millenarian Protestant circles of the 17th century. It was my disagreement with him, upon reading his 2008 book, How the Jewish People Was Invented?, that prompted me to research the Jewish origins of Zionism. He argued that the Zionist project could not have been born in the Jewish tradition since the Talmud forbade the return of the Jewish people to the Holy Land. And he believed, like Thierry Meyssan after him, that the idea of repatriating the Jewish people to Palestine to hasten the coming of the Messiah was exclusively Protestant millenarian. My intuition told me that these Protestant millennials had been influenced by Jewish messianism. It was not difficult for me to demonstrate. But the most difficult thing was to discover how this messianic Zionist project had emerged in the Jewish world.
> 
> A few years later, I read the fascinating book by the great reporter Douglas Reed, The Zion Controversy, which he wrote in the 1950s. Douglas Reed saw that Zionism had its roots in the Jewish religion, but he could not demonstrate it. His mistake was to link Zionism to the Talmud, while the latter forbids the return of Jews to the Holy Land before the arrival of the Messiah of the Jews. In defense of Douglas Reed, he was not a research historian or specialist in Judaism, and had no knowledge of Kabbalah; his book is, as he wrote in conclusion, a testimony that future historians had to validate with evidence.
> 
> It was then that I began to study the history, concepts and evolution of Jewish mysticism (the Kabbalah) and messianism, because I sensed that it was in this current that I would find the origins of the zionist project. So I immersed myself in the books of Gershom Scholem which were very useful to me in understanding Kabbalah and messianism. But there again, Scholem did not link Zionism to Kabbalah and messianism. And I had to do more precise research on key periods and characters to resolve this “historical problem”.
> 
> It is very difficult for a neophyte to distinguish between Gnosis, Kabbalah, messianism, alchemy, magic... How do you find your way around and what would be their common basis?
> 
> Kabbalah was strongly influenced by Gnosticism which originated from beliefs coming from both ancient Persian religion [Mazdeism], Greek religion and certainly other beliefs from both the Mediterranean and India via Mesopotamia. Kabbalah is composed of several branches: apocalyptic, cosmology, angelology, demonology and magic. As for Jewish messianism, it has, over the centuries, been largely penetrated by the Kabbalah. But I strongly advise against venturing into the study of Kabbalah for those who do not have a solid theological foundation. They will get lost there.
> 
> *Do you think what is happening currently in Ukraine is an integral part of active messianism? *
> 
> As I explained recently1, it is first of all about the geopolitical confrontation between the United States and Russia. This is the old strategy of the Anglo-American thalassocratic power, one of the main objectives of which is to take control of Eurasia. A project that is naturally opposed by Russia, a tellurocratic power, threatened with destruction. But Jewish messianism is not far away. Ukraine is considered by a number of Israeli Jews as their property. Moreover, President Zelinski is himself a Jew, just like his master, the billionaire Igor Kolomoïski (holder of Ukrainian, Israeli and Cypriot nationalities) who financed the neo-Nazi battalions of Ukraine. Kolomoiski also lives in Israel.
> 
> In an article published in September 2015, I analyzed the Zionist strategy vis-à-vis Russia2, which was combined with US geostrategy. Israel, via the pro-Israeli lobby3, uses, in particular since the turning point of September 11, 2001, the United States and NATO as a tool for the destruction of Russia's historical allies in the Middle East, which leads to even greater animosity between Russians and Americans.
> 
> At the same time, the Zionist leaders are trying, through intermediaries, to negotiate with Russia so that it abandons its Syrian and Iranian allies. In July 2013, Prince Bandar, as a representative of Saudi Arabia (Israel's ally), met with Vladimir Putin during the Syrian crisis. During the talks, Bandar allegedly proposed an economic, oil and gas agreement to Vladimir Putin, in exchange for which he would have to let go of Iran, abandon President Assad and deliver Syria to terrorists4. At the time, I analyzed the fire lit a few months later in Ukraine as an American-Israeli response to the Russian refusal. Moreover, Israel was preparing to deliver weapons to Ukraine a month or two after the start of the civil war. Putin then warned the Jewish state.
> 
> 1 https://strategika.fr/2022/02/26/le...tan-russie-conference-audio-de-youssef-hindi/
> 2 http://www.geopolintel.fr/article970.html
> 3 John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt, The pro-Israel lobby and American foreign policy, La Découverte, 2007.
> 4 Al Manar, “What was not revealed about the stormy Bandar-Putin encounter”, August 21, 2013.
> 5 Sputnik, “Putin warns Israel against arms deliveries to Kyiv”, 18 April 2015.
> 
> https://sapaudia.org/2022/03/07/entretien-avec-youssef-hindi-03-22/


*Youssef "Hindi".. *it says it all..
First with KSA an ally of Usrael..
Second by failing to mention that Ukraine was the land of the first Jewish "kingdom"..
*He has a lot to learn!*


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531789816710500352
President Biden officially announces rocket systems for Ukraine


----------



## Brainsucker

This war is not only weaken Russia and Ukraine, but also NATO, indirectly.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531790919866929153

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531790921246953472
-President Biden


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531688501653159938

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531791492074745856

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Vergennes

The SC said:


> The Chechens are monsters who are one of the stars of this war..
> 
> Their competence of urban warfare are never to be denied, so ambushes and defensive methods do not work in guerrilla warfare with them. This is their main specialty even before their involvement in the Russian army.. Experience and continuous training were in their favor, not equipment or preparation. They are groups that depend on the capabilities, experience and competence of individuals more than the quality of equipment they Possess or their number..



LMAO,the chechens are just a PR tool used by the Russians nothing else. Majority of the fighting are done by the Russians and their cannon fodder called DNR/LNR... Your so called "stars" are just a bunch of clowns filming tiktoks and even DNR officials claimed the Chechens barely fight. 

Every experts have seen their "experience" of urban warfare.


----------



## The SC

Vergennes said:


> LMAO,the chechens are just a PR tool used by the Russians nothing else. Majority of the fighting are done by the Russians and their cannon fodder called DNR/LNR... Your so called "stars" are just a bunch of clowns filming tiktoks and even DNR officials claimed the Chechens barely fight.
> 
> Every experts have seen their "experience" of urban warfare.


They are the spearhead of any Russian urban warfare.. it is clear.. you can deny it as you want..it is still the truth..

It is obvious that their "Allahu Akbar" shocks you!

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## The SC

The President of Ukraine on the battles in his country: Russia is superior to us in "numbers" and "equipment"
@AlArabiya_Brk

Biden: The United States will provide Ukraine with "more advanced" missile systems
@AlArabiya_Brk


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531763647894151168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531755395001339905

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531752863709396992

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531749471616376832
****
Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry*

_*▫️*_*152 mined bodies of dead fighters and servicemen of the AFU* were stored in a van with the *broken cooling system in Azovstal*

_*💥*_During the day, *high-precision air-based missiles* have hit *4 *control points, as well as *13* areas of concentration of Ukrainian manpower and military equipment.

_*✈️💥*_*Operational-tactical, army and unmanned aviation* have hit *3* command posts, *69* areas of manpower and military equipment concentration

_*▫️*_The attacks have resulted in the elimination of more than *290* nationalists and *23* weapons and military equipment.* 1* Su-25 aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force has been shot down near Kobzatsy, Nikolaev Region.

_*💥*_*Missile troops and artillery* have hit *38* command posts, *417* areas of manpower and military equipment concentration, and *46* firing positions of artillery and mortar batteries.

*Liberated territory* 

_*▫️*_*Residential Area in Severodonetsk has been completely liberated and cleaned* - AFU is hiding in the industrial plant preparing to leave the city to Lisichansk 

*Daily Dose of Diarrhea - Europe

▫️*EU to impose an embargo on Russian oil, more than 2/3 of imports will be cut immediately 

_*▫️*_EU to give Ukraine 9 billion euros for 'immediate liquidity'

_*▫️*_Borrell wants that Patriarch Kirill should be blacklisted by the European Union.

_*▫️*_The further imposition of EU sanctions against Russia "will be more and more difficult", as they greatly affect the EU countries themselves, said the Estonian Prime Minister

_*▫️*_The EU should forget about sanctions – they’re doing more harm than good - The Guardian 

_*▫️*_Belgian Prime Minister: it's time to pause sanctions against Russia, we need to assess the consequences of those that have already been introduced

_*▫️*_The inflation rate in the euro zone rose to 8.1% in May 2022. 7.4% in April

_*▫️*_Inflation in Poland in May reached 13.9% year on year. This is the highest figure in 24 years.

*United States

▫️*The Pentagon believes that negotiations would be a logical solution to the situation in Ukraine.

_*▫️*_The United States supports any efforts for a peaceful settlement of the situation in Ukraine 

_*▫️*_The United States hopes that the negotiations between the UN representative in Moscow and Washington will facilitate the export of grain and fertilizers from Russia

*Daily Dose of Diarrhea - Ukraine

▫️*Almost all major EU countries object to the status of Ukraine's candidate for the EU, and now it is not expected to be granted, the Prime Minister of Italy reports.

*▫️*Greece will supply Soviet-style tanks to Ukraine and receive their replacement from Germany

_*▫️*_Ukraine will not rush to de-occupy territories if it requires tens of thousands of victims, but will wait for the necessary weapons.

*China + Russia* 

_*▫️*_Monthly trading volume in the ruble-yuan has increased by 1067% since the end of February



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531736640951025665

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531802485383385090
New $700M package tomorrow


----------



## Elvin

However which way you turn it Russia has lost a lot of strategic advantages by invading Ukraine. Firstly, NATO expansion via Sweden and Finland with serious conversations being held in Ireland and Bosnia & Herzegovina which is already a partner nation and in line to become a member. This invasion also unified what seemed to be a fractured NATO. Both of these go against Russian planning

This invasion has started the painful process of EU decoupling of Russian energy sources. This was tried by the US for decades with limited success but now all gloves are off and the irreversible processes have started. In 5 years Russian energy in the EU will be unnoticeable.

This invasion is pushing Russia into the grips of China. As close as their relationship may appear at face value, there is immense mistrust between Moscow and Beijing. Putin knows this, but has no choice but to redirect to China. After all, it is easier and better to do business with Europe than Beijing.

This invasion has also planted the seeds of future NATO expansion into Ukraine. It may not happen this decade but it will happen, the process has started.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531793405252096002

The range of the rockets will be 80kms


----------



## RoadAmerica

Hakwa Nadro said:


> should make thousands of copies of this video and send to all the neo-nazis around the world including the proud boys and bhakts


The proud boys aren’t nazis, would everyone stop using that term for those they don’t agree with



The SC said:


> They are the spearhead of any Russian urban warfare.. it is clear.. you can deny it as you want..it is still the truth..
> 
> It is obvious that their "Allahu Akbar" shocks you!


Whether or not their fighting is irrelevant, their numbers are so small even if they are mike Tyson they’re contributing little.


----------



## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukrainian forces are conducting a tactical retreat to defensive positions at Lyschansk. Higher ground, and flat open terrain from Severodonetsk. It’ll likely be much harder to move westward for Russian forces.


You never defend an area when you have a river on your back, if you do, that river, not the enemy is your biggest enemy, because it will make it hard for you to resupply or retreat. You always put the river between you and your enemy that way you limited their concentration and the river would be their concern, not yours. 

This is very basic Military Knowledge. As I call it days ago (and 2 days ago when I write my Day 90 report) The Ukrainian is probably going to give up Sieverodonetsk but probably do a tactical retrograde and leave behind a token force to trade ground with pace.



Raffie said:


> And now, just put the HiMARS/M270 and CAESAR out of the magic hat while they're all packed, then...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately! China is way more dangerous.
> Thanks to its greed, ego and will to be in history books, Putin will be remembered as having destroyed Russia.


Not sure if M270 is going to make it on time, but that River is probably enough for the Ukrainian to hold their ground. If they choose to hold their ground, it also depends on how they stop the Russian from taking T1302.


----------



## PakFactor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531802485383385090
> New $700M package tomorrow



Waste of money.
This why pump IRA, SEP IRA and other retirement accounts along with other tax loopholes pay close to 0 in taxes. For business owners like myself Trump left a lot of good things in tax reform.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

RoadAmerica said:


> The proud boys aren’t nazis, would everyone stop using that term for those they don’t agree with
> 
> 
> Whether or not their fighting is irrelevant, their numbers are so small even if they are mike Tyson they’re contributing little.


10 000 is small.. that's a whole division of SOF..

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531796189129105408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531796876965691412

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## mazeto

Slowly but surely Russia is imposing it's will on and off the battlefield. And it's going to get worse hereon. A lightweight can only stand toe-to-toe with a heavyweight for do long.. even if your corner is cheering you on. Cheers can only get you so far.
Someone correctly pointed out the real reason why the collective economic might of the NATO couldn't harm Russia the way Western sanctions for example crushed Iraq or Afghanistan. It's real economy vs
" service " ( aka illusory) economy. A country like Russia, China or even Iran and India derives it's economic power from real products, either natural ( eg oil, food, hydro, gas, minerals) or manufactured ( eg industrial stuff).
Western countries economic might depends on the worship of their fake products by the rest of the world, drawing from the aura they built during colonialism
.
For example the outrageous prices we pay for their bags, branded shoes, cosmetics etc made in Bangladesh or Vietnam. Or the extortionate sums we pay for their useless degrees in the education sector. Etc.
This war is a direct clash between a product vs service economy.. and it exposed the latter. For the same reason China can sleep easy now, West will kill themselves trying to sanction it.

I hope for greater humanity ( unfortunately for the Ukraine and Russia) this war drag on for a few years. It will thoroughly expose the Western myth re their military, economic and political might. This will help the rest of the world to decouple from their hegemony on world institutions through which they leech-off the rest of the world.
It would be great foolishness on the part of the Chinese to not speed up this process( by helping Russia at this critical stage.. and the Chinese ain't fools.) 
** To any Russian here: why the hell are rail lines to Poland still running freely???

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

Interfax, citing Russian Defense: Nuclear forces conduct maneuvers in Russia's "Ivanovo" province

Urgent | Interfax on Russian Defense: The maneuvers include the use of "Yars" ballistic missile launchers, with the participation of about 1,000 soldiers
@AlArabiya_Brk

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531715622853300231


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Ghanima or trophy


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531632554922713089

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Haha Haha:
2


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531789601651712000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531799840920846336

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531670869885562881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531670869885562881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531674167971545090

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531754815038300160

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531543496561156096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531760105431121920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531769561204269057

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531761977319628800


----------



## Apollon

SecularNationalist said:


> Yeah, you also doubted that Russia didn't have the balls to invade Ukraine or take any territory from Ukraine. You doubt that Russia is one of the major global and European powers. Losses are part of any war you little Sherlock.
> Those are no doubts but shocks to you
> Caucaus lol forget about it. Most Russians voluntary supporting this war are from Caucasus and Chechnya.



I never said that. I always said russia is a facist terror regime. Its no power though, the city of munich alone has bigger economy. 


There are no russian in caucasus btw


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531730737787027456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531731075474640906

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531729435317108737

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531729460659118081

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jamahir

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531729101354057728



@Apollon @Vergennes @Wood @F-22Raptor @Messerschmitt ( where is this fellow lately ? ) @Raffie @Get Ya Wig Split, one of your swastika boys encountering the Russians.  



RoadAmerica said:


> The proud boys aren’t nazis, would everyone stop using that term for those they don’t agree with



Please stop denying what they are. Right from them going on BBC and wailing how the ebeel Russians were killing blond, blue-eyed people to them hanging Russian-speaking pregnant women off wood beams in forests and for years supporting a WW2 era Nazi, Stepan Bandera, and so on it is clear who they are to everyone.

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Love Love:
1


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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> @Apollon @Vergennes @Wood @F-22Raptor @Messerschmitt ( where is this fellow lately ? ) @Raffie @Get Ya Wig Split, one of your swastika boys encountering the Russians.
> 
> 
> 
> Please stop denying what they are. Right from them going on BBC and wailing how the ebeel Russians were killing blond, blue-eyed people to them hanging Russian-speaking pregnant women off wood beams in forests and for years supporting a WW2 era Nazi, Stepan Bandera, and so on it is clear who they are to everyone.



I dont see posts from trolls that i ignore. Dont link me on posts i dont see anyway


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> I dont see posts from trolls that i ignore. Dont link me on posts i dont see anyway



Just click on the button to remove the ignore temporarily and then watch it. You will like it.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531717727034949632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531688070600609792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531687447880400899

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531685304062590977

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

This summer will be bitter for Russian holidaymakers. They can’t go anywhere. We will miss them in Vietnam. Putin has made Russia to a giant open prison. North Korea at the Wolga.










Tourist destinations gear up for summer without Russian visitors


Greece, Turkey, and Cyprus face uncertain summer season as numbers of Russian tourists slump amid war on Ukraine.




www.aljazeera.com


----------



## jamahir

Raffie said:


> * Children shown in ANYTHING political = 100% PROPAGANDA!!!*
> 
> View attachment 849852
> View attachment 849853
> 
> BTW, you got your...
> View attachment 849854

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## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531730737787027456
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531731075474640906
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531729435317108737
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531729460659118081


Not really for free. As compensation Poland will receive German leopards tanks. Same for Czech, Romania and other when they deliver Soviet tanks and armor verhicle to Ukraine.
NATO military spending will reach a record $1.2 trillion minimum.
Putin sees nazi everywhere.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## mulj

Nato made one big blunder in past and that is over standardized, over thinked and over expensive weapon systems which does not allow mass production and stockpiling of it for times like this.
At this moment russkies have complete logistical advantage over ukrainians and it becomes more difficult to carry on defence with success, initiative is on russian side and now they dictate conditions on front.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Clutch

Kremlin TV Names the Country Putin Will Invade Next​
‘EXPECT US’
Julia Davis​Published May. 31, 2022 9:35PM ET




Omar Marques/Getty​
While some in the West are pondering what kind of a concessions would allow Russian autocrat Vladimir Putin “to save face” in Ukraine, leading Russian lawmakers and top propagandists are advocating smashing the West, which they say is Russia’s ultimate target.
On the state TV show _60 Minutes_, host Olga Skabeeva announced: “I have some unpleasant news... Even though we are methodically destroying the weapons that are being delivered [to Ukraine], but the quantities in which the United States are sending them force us to come up with some global conclusions. Perhaps it’s time to acknowledge that maybe Russia’s special operation in Ukraine has come to an end, in a sense that a real war had started: WWIII. We’re forced to conduct the demilitarization not only of Ukraine, but of the entire NATO alliance.”



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Vladimir Avatkov, from the Diplomatic Academy of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, said: “You mentioned WWIII and the way Americans and Poles are acting on the territory of Ukraine—indeed, we need to remember the words of Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, who said that anyone who tries to interfere in the special military operation will pay a heavy price.” Skabeeva interrupted: “We never forget about these words of Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, but a great number of people are already standing in line, trying to interfere in Russia’s special operation on the territory of Ukraine. Turns out, we have to act—but we’re yet to figure out how we can act without conducting a nuclear strike.”
Russian parliament member Oleg Matveychev weighed in: “If Poland starts any intervention... its current borders will be worthless.” Skabeeva wasn’t satisfied: “I wasn’t talking just about Poland, but mainly about Great Britain and the United States... they’re all lined up.” Avatkov chimed in: “No need to rush, there is a line. Everything in its time!”

Russian parliament member Oleg Matveychev weighed in: “If Poland starts any intervention... its current borders will be worthless.” Skabeeva wasn’t satisfied: “I wasn’t talking just about Poland, but mainly about Great Britain and the United States... they’re all lined up.” Avatkov chimed in: “No need to rush, there is a line. Everything in its time!”



Putin’s Next Big Farce Is Happening Right Under Our Noses​
PLAY IT COOL
Shannon Vavra​



ADVERTISEMENT
The first in line is apparently Poland, with Secretary of the Russian Security Council Nikolai Patrushev baselessly claiming on Tuesday that Poland is moving to seize territories in western Ukraine and accusing numerous unnamed countries of “actively working to dismember Ukraine.” Meanwhile, on Russian state TV hosts and pundits routinely refer to Ukraine as “the territory formerly known as Ukraine” and matter-of-factly discuss how many millions of Ukrainians might have to die for Russia to complete its so-called “denazification.” In his recent interview, Russian State Duma Deputy Defense Committee Chairman Vladimir Shamanov, former Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Airborne Troops admitted that Russia “was built through territorial enlargement” and named Poland as one of Russia’s main adversaries.

Appearing on the state TV show Sunday Evening With Vladimir Solovyov, Chairman of the State Duma Committee on Defense Andrey Kartapolov expounded on the idea of Russia’s crusade against the Western world: “For us, the special military operation is just the first act, an introduction. The war that is going on right now... it’s not just an economical war and info-war, this war is about our faith. It’s about our right, as the people, to have faith in what we want to believe, to love those we want to love and to live the way our ancestors would have wanted, on our land and by our birthright.”

Kartapolov added: “These wars are not the first wars. In the 19th century—Napoleon, in the 20th century—Adolf Aloisovich Hitler, and every time all of Europe came at us. The same thing is happening now... It’s a good thing that a realization is coming, it’s time to stop lying. Stop lying to ourselves, stop lying to our leader, stop lying to our own people. It’s time to be responsible for our words and deeds and to move forward as one—to the goal that has been set by the Commander-in-chief.”

The strategy of justifying such a potential attack against additional adversaries is consistent with the Kremlin’s previous approach with respect to Ukraine: ludicrous claims that the chosen target was about to go on the offensive against the Motherland. The impending conflict against the West is being framed in terms of an existential battle for Russia’s survival.

Kartapolov claimed: “Today, Europe is a de-facto colony of the United States, the new type of a colony. In the ’90s, we were the same kind of a colony, but managed to break free—thanks to our president and the decisions he made... They put everything in a beautiful wrapper, selling it to us under the guise of democracy, freedom of speech and all sorts of other slogans. Their main goal was to usurp our resources, our natural resources, to split Russia up into many vicious countries fighting with one another.”

RUSSIA
Kremlin TV Names the Country Putin Will Invade Next​
‘EXPECT US’
Julia Davis​Published May. 31, 2022 9:35PM ET




Omar Marques/Getty​
While some in the West are pondering what kind of a concessions would allow Russian autocrat Vladimir Putin “to save face” in Ukraine, leading Russian lawmakers and top propagandists are advocating smashing the West, which they say is Russia’s ultimate target.
On the state TV show _60 Minutes_, host Olga Skabeeva announced: “I have some unpleasant news... Even though we are methodically destroying the weapons that are being delivered [to Ukraine], but the quantities in which the United States are sending them force us to come up with some global conclusions. Perhaps it’s time to acknowledge that maybe Russia’s special operation in Ukraine has come to an end, in a sense that a real war had started: WWIII. We’re forced to conduct the demilitarization not only of Ukraine, but of the entire NATO alliance.”



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Vladimir Avatkov, from the Diplomatic Academy of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, said: “You mentioned WWIII and the way Americans and Poles are acting on the territory of Ukraine—indeed, we need to remember the words of Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, who said that anyone who tries to interfere in the special military operation will pay a heavy price.” Skabeeva interrupted: “We never forget about these words of Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, but a great number of people are already standing in line, trying to interfere in Russia’s special operation on the territory of Ukraine. Turns out, we have to act—but we’re yet to figure out how we can act without conducting a nuclear strike.”
Russian parliament member Oleg Matveychev weighed in: “If Poland starts any intervention... its current borders will be worthless.” Skabeeva wasn’t satisfied: “I wasn’t talking just about Poland, but mainly about Great Britain and the United States... they’re all lined up.” Avatkov chimed in: “No need to rush, there is a line. Everything in its time!”



Putin’s Next Big Farce Is Happening Right Under Our Noses​
PLAY IT COOL
Shannon Vavra​



ADVERTISEMENT
The first in line is apparently Poland, with Secretary of the Russian Security Council Nikolai Patrushev baselessly claiming on Tuesday that Poland is moving to seize territories in western Ukraine and accusing numerous unnamed countries of “actively working to dismember Ukraine.” Meanwhile, on Russian state TV hosts and pundits routinely refer to Ukraine as “the territory formerly known as Ukraine” and matter-of-factly discuss how many millions of Ukrainians might have to die for Russia to complete its so-called “denazification.” In his recent interview, Russian State Duma Deputy Defense Committee Chairman Vladimir Shamanov, former Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Airborne Troops admitted that Russia “was built through territorial enlargement” and named Poland as one of Russia’s main adversaries.



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Appearing on the state TV show _Sunday Evening With Vladimir Solovyov_, Chairman of the State Duma Committee on Defense Andrey Kartapolov expounded on the idea of Russia’s crusade against the Western world: “For us, the special military operation is just the first act, an introduction. The war that is going on right now... it’s not just an economical war and info-war, this war is about our faith. It’s about our right, as the people, to have faith in what we want to believe, to love those we want to love and to live the way our ancestors would have wanted, on our land and by our birthright.”
Kartapolov added: “These wars are not the first wars. In the 19th century—Napoleon, in the 20th century—Adolf Aloisovich Hitler, and every time all of Europe came at us. The same thing is happening now... It’s a good thing that a realization is coming, it’s time to stop lying. Stop lying to ourselves, stop lying to our leader, stop lying to our own people. It’s time to be responsible for our words and deeds and to move forward as one—to the goal that has been set by the Commander-in-chief.”
The strategy of justifying such a potential attack against additional adversaries is consistent with the Kremlin’s previous approach with respect to Ukraine: ludicrous claims that the chosen target was about to go on the offensive against the Motherland. The impending conflict against the West is being framed in terms of an existential battle for Russia’s survival.

Kartapolov claimed: “Today, Europe is a de-facto colony of the United States, the new type of a colony. In the ’90s, we were the same kind of a colony, but managed to break free—thanks to our president and the decisions he made... They put everything in a beautiful wrapper, selling it to us under the guise of democracy, freedom of speech and all sorts of other slogans. Their main goal was to usurp our resources, our natural resources, to split Russia up into many vicious countries fighting with one another.”



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NEW DOORS AND WINDOWS FOR A BEAUTIFUL HOME
AD BY RONASEE MORE





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The alleged desire to “dismember Russia” is also being ascribed to opposition activists, in order to simultaneously target all perceived enemies, both foreign and domestic. During Monday’s broadcast of _The Evening With Vladimir Solovyov_, arguments were made to limit the influence of members of the opposition on Russian society—particularly those who still travel abroad. Political scientist Vadim Gigin claimed: “People who are planning to return to Russia... are proposing to divide the country.” Host, Vladimir Solovyov added: “They have the lists of undesirables... they’ll be hanging people. What’s scary is that they’re coming back.”
Shota Gorgadze, member of the Russian Presidential Human Rights Council proposed that immediately upon their return, opposition activists be criminally charged for their alleged calls to dismember Russia. Agitated, Solovyov complained: “For months we’ve been demanding that criminal cases be open against all of [Alexei] Navalny’s terrorist sect under article 275 [treason].” Gorgadze proposed that anyone speaking out “against the interests of the Russian Federation, especially during this difficult time” be stripped of their Russian citizenship. He added: “If the law says this can’t be done, I don’t see any reason why this law can’t be changed.”
Urging a more aggressive approach, Solovyov asked: “Are we acting as inert gases, simply taking up only as much room as the West allows? The West is squeezing us and we’re accepting it and adopting to it? When things let up, will we exhale and welcome the air of freedom? No, that won’t work. It’s time to sober up and find our way.”
Discussing Russia’s confrontation with the collective West during _Sunday Evening With Vladimir Solovyov_, Kartapolov framed it as a crusade: “I’m convinced that this war is about faith. Russia is an Orthodox country, and by “Orthodox” I don’t mean just Christianity. Orthodoxy is when on our territory all traditional religions peacefully co-exist: traditional Islam, Buddhism and Judaism... They’re saying, we’re destroying the Ukrainian culture. What culture? Look at the devils they pulled out from the basements of Azovstal... It’s the face—I can’t even call it a face—the snout of the unclean. The holy scripture says, “What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.” In the 19th century, we came to Paris, in the 20th century we came to Berlin—we’ll come wherever they try to enslave and humiliate us. You won’t succeed. Expect us.”







T.V.
‘​© 2022 The Daily Beast Company LLC

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531846911640076288

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## jamahir

Clutch said:


> Kremlin TV Names the Country Putin Will Invade Next​
> ‘EXPECT US’
> Julia Davis​Published May. 31, 2022 9:35PM ET
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Omar Marques/Getty​
> While some in the West are pondering what kind of a concessions would allow Russian autocrat Vladimir Putin “to save face” in Ukraine, leading Russian lawmakers and top propagandists are advocating smashing the West, which they say is Russia’s ultimate target.
> On the state TV show _60 Minutes_, host Olga Skabeeva announced: “I have some unpleasant news... Even though we are methodically destroying the weapons that are being delivered [to Ukraine], but the quantities in which the United States are sending them force us to come up with some global conclusions. Perhaps it’s time to acknowledge that maybe Russia’s special operation in Ukraine has come to an end, in a sense that a real war had started: WWIII. We’re forced to conduct the demilitarization not only of Ukraine, but of the entire NATO alliance.”
> 
> 
> 
> HELLO SUMMER
> PRIVACY PANELS FOR ALL BUDGET
> AD BY RONASHOP NOW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Advertisement
> Vladimir Avatkov, from the Diplomatic Academy of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, said: “You mentioned WWIII and the way Americans and Poles are acting on the territory of Ukraine—indeed, we need to remember the words of Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, who said that anyone who tries to interfere in the special military operation will pay a heavy price.” Skabeeva interrupted: “We never forget about these words of Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, but a great number of people are already standing in line, trying to interfere in Russia’s special operation on the territory of Ukraine. Turns out, we have to act—but we’re yet to figure out how we can act without conducting a nuclear strike.”
> Russian parliament member Oleg Matveychev weighed in: “If Poland starts any intervention... its current borders will be worthless.” Skabeeva wasn’t satisfied: “I wasn’t talking just about Poland, but mainly about Great Britain and the United States... they’re all lined up.” Avatkov chimed in: “No need to rush, there is a line. Everything in its time!”
> 
> Russian parliament member Oleg Matveychev weighed in: “If Poland starts any intervention... its current borders will be worthless.” Skabeeva wasn’t satisfied: “I wasn’t talking just about Poland, but mainly about Great Britain and the United States... they’re all lined up.” Avatkov chimed in: “No need to rush, there is a line. Everything in its time!”
> 
> 
> 
> Putin’s Next Big Farce Is Happening Right Under Our Noses​
> PLAY IT COOL
> Shannon Vavra​
> 
> 
> 
> ADVERTISEMENT
> The first in line is apparently Poland, with Secretary of the Russian Security Council Nikolai Patrushev baselessly claiming on Tuesday that Poland is moving to seize territories in western Ukraine and accusing numerous unnamed countries of “actively working to dismember Ukraine.” Meanwhile, on Russian state TV hosts and pundits routinely refer to Ukraine as “the territory formerly known as Ukraine” and matter-of-factly discuss how many millions of Ukrainians might have to die for Russia to complete its so-called “denazification.” In his recent interview, Russian State Duma Deputy Defense Committee Chairman Vladimir Shamanov, former Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Airborne Troops admitted that Russia “was built through territorial enlargement” and named Poland as one of Russia’s main adversaries.
> 
> Appearing on the state TV show Sunday Evening With Vladimir Solovyov, Chairman of the State Duma Committee on Defense Andrey Kartapolov expounded on the idea of Russia’s crusade against the Western world: “For us, the special military operation is just the first act, an introduction. The war that is going on right now... it’s not just an economical war and info-war, this war is about our faith. It’s about our right, as the people, to have faith in what we want to believe, to love those we want to love and to live the way our ancestors would have wanted, on our land and by our birthright.”
> 
> Kartapolov added: “These wars are not the first wars. In the 19th century—Napoleon, in the 20th century—Adolf Aloisovich Hitler, and every time all of Europe came at us. The same thing is happening now... It’s a good thing that a realization is coming, it’s time to stop lying. Stop lying to ourselves, stop lying to our leader, stop lying to our own people. It’s time to be responsible for our words and deeds and to move forward as one—to the goal that has been set by the Commander-in-chief.”
> 
> The strategy of justifying such a potential attack against additional adversaries is consistent with the Kremlin’s previous approach with respect to Ukraine: ludicrous claims that the chosen target was about to go on the offensive against the Motherland. The impending conflict against the West is being framed in terms of an existential battle for Russia’s survival.
> 
> Kartapolov claimed: “Today, Europe is a de-facto colony of the United States, the new type of a colony. In the ’90s, we were the same kind of a colony, but managed to break free—thanks to our president and the decisions he made... They put everything in a beautiful wrapper, selling it to us under the guise of democracy, freedom of speech and all sorts of other slogans. Their main goal was to usurp our resources, our natural resources, to split Russia up into many vicious countries fighting with one another.”
> 
> RUSSIA
> Kremlin TV Names the Country Putin Will Invade Next​
> ‘EXPECT US’
> Julia Davis​Published May. 31, 2022 9:35PM ET
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Omar Marques/Getty​
> While some in the West are pondering what kind of a concessions would allow Russian autocrat Vladimir Putin “to save face” in Ukraine, leading Russian lawmakers and top propagandists are advocating smashing the West, which they say is Russia’s ultimate target.
> On the state TV show _60 Minutes_, host Olga Skabeeva announced: “I have some unpleasant news... Even though we are methodically destroying the weapons that are being delivered [to Ukraine], but the quantities in which the United States are sending them force us to come up with some global conclusions. Perhaps it’s time to acknowledge that maybe Russia’s special operation in Ukraine has come to an end, in a sense that a real war had started: WWIII. We’re forced to conduct the demilitarization not only of Ukraine, but of the entire NATO alliance.”
> 
> 
> 
> HELLO SUMMER
> NEW DOORS AND WINDOWS FOR A BEAUTIFUL HOME
> AD BY RONASEE MORE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Advertisement
> Vladimir Avatkov, from the Diplomatic Academy of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, said: “You mentioned WWIII and the way Americans and Poles are acting on the territory of Ukraine—indeed, we need to remember the words of Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, who said that anyone who tries to interfere in the special military operation will pay a heavy price.” Skabeeva interrupted: “We never forget about these words of Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, but a great number of people are already standing in line, trying to interfere in Russia’s special operation on the territory of Ukraine. Turns out, we have to act—but we’re yet to figure out how we can act without conducting a nuclear strike.”
> Russian parliament member Oleg Matveychev weighed in: “If Poland starts any intervention... its current borders will be worthless.” Skabeeva wasn’t satisfied: “I wasn’t talking just about Poland, but mainly about Great Britain and the United States... they’re all lined up.” Avatkov chimed in: “No need to rush, there is a line. Everything in its time!”
> 
> 
> 
> Putin’s Next Big Farce Is Happening Right Under Our Noses​
> PLAY IT COOL
> Shannon Vavra​
> 
> 
> 
> ADVERTISEMENT
> The first in line is apparently Poland, with Secretary of the Russian Security Council Nikolai Patrushev baselessly claiming on Tuesday that Poland is moving to seize territories in western Ukraine and accusing numerous unnamed countries of “actively working to dismember Ukraine.” Meanwhile, on Russian state TV hosts and pundits routinely refer to Ukraine as “the territory formerly known as Ukraine” and matter-of-factly discuss how many millions of Ukrainians might have to die for Russia to complete its so-called “denazification.” In his recent interview, Russian State Duma Deputy Defense Committee Chairman Vladimir Shamanov, former Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Airborne Troops admitted that Russia “was built through territorial enlargement” and named Poland as one of Russia’s main adversaries.
> 
> 
> 
> HELLO SUMMER
> NEW DOORS AND WINDOWS FOR A BEAUTIFUL HOME
> AD BY RONASEE MORE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Advertisement
> Appearing on the state TV show _Sunday Evening With Vladimir Solovyov_, Chairman of the State Duma Committee on Defense Andrey Kartapolov expounded on the idea of Russia’s crusade against the Western world: “For us, the special military operation is just the first act, an introduction. The war that is going on right now... it’s not just an economical war and info-war, this war is about our faith. It’s about our right, as the people, to have faith in what we want to believe, to love those we want to love and to live the way our ancestors would have wanted, on our land and by our birthright.”
> Kartapolov added: “These wars are not the first wars. In the 19th century—Napoleon, in the 20th century—Adolf Aloisovich Hitler, and every time all of Europe came at us. The same thing is happening now... It’s a good thing that a realization is coming, it’s time to stop lying. Stop lying to ourselves, stop lying to our leader, stop lying to our own people. It’s time to be responsible for our words and deeds and to move forward as one—to the goal that has been set by the Commander-in-chief.”
> The strategy of justifying such a potential attack against additional adversaries is consistent with the Kremlin’s previous approach with respect to Ukraine: ludicrous claims that the chosen target was about to go on the offensive against the Motherland. The impending conflict against the West is being framed in terms of an existential battle for Russia’s survival.
> 
> Kartapolov claimed: “Today, Europe is a de-facto colony of the United States, the new type of a colony. In the ’90s, we were the same kind of a colony, but managed to break free—thanks to our president and the decisions he made... They put everything in a beautiful wrapper, selling it to us under the guise of democracy, freedom of speech and all sorts of other slogans. Their main goal was to usurp our resources, our natural resources, to split Russia up into many vicious countries fighting with one another.”
> 
> 
> 
> HELLO SUMMER
> NEW DOORS AND WINDOWS FOR A BEAUTIFUL HOME
> AD BY RONASEE MORE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Advertisement
> The alleged desire to “dismember Russia” is also being ascribed to opposition activists, in order to simultaneously target all perceived enemies, both foreign and domestic. During Monday’s broadcast of _The Evening With Vladimir Solovyov_, arguments were made to limit the influence of members of the opposition on Russian society—particularly those who still travel abroad. Political scientist Vadim Gigin claimed: “People who are planning to return to Russia... are proposing to divide the country.” Host, Vladimir Solovyov added: “They have the lists of undesirables... they’ll be hanging people. What’s scary is that they’re coming back.”
> Shota Gorgadze, member of the Russian Presidential Human Rights Council proposed that immediately upon their return, opposition activists be criminally charged for their alleged calls to dismember Russia. Agitated, Solovyov complained: “For months we’ve been demanding that criminal cases be open against all of [Alexei] Navalny’s terrorist sect under article 275 [treason].” Gorgadze proposed that anyone speaking out “against the interests of the Russian Federation, especially during this difficult time” be stripped of their Russian citizenship. He added: “If the law says this can’t be done, I don’t see any reason why this law can’t be changed.”
> Urging a more aggressive approach, Solovyov asked: “Are we acting as inert gases, simply taking up only as much room as the West allows? The West is squeezing us and we’re accepting it and adopting to it? When things let up, will we exhale and welcome the air of freedom? No, that won’t work. It’s time to sober up and find our way.”
> Discussing Russia’s confrontation with the collective West during _Sunday Evening With Vladimir Solovyov_, Kartapolov framed it as a crusade: “I’m convinced that this war is about faith. Russia is an Orthodox country, and by “Orthodox” I don’t mean just Christianity. Orthodoxy is when on our territory all traditional religions peacefully co-exist: traditional Islam, Buddhism and Judaism... They’re saying, we’re destroying the Ukrainian culture. What culture? Look at the devils they pulled out from the basements of Azovstal... It’s the face—I can’t even call it a face—the snout of the unclean. The holy scripture says, “What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.” In the 19th century, we came to Paris, in the 20th century we came to Berlin—we’ll come wherever they try to enslave and humiliate us. You won’t succeed. Expect us.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.V.
> ‘​© 2022 The Daily Beast Company LLC



The Russians have a way of simple and straight talk that appeals to the rational. Unlike the unbearable nonsense and lies uttered by the Western bloc leaders.

@Apollon, Boom Boom In Berlin not far.

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## SecularNationalist

Apollon said:


> There are no russian in caucasus btw


By citizenship they are Russians , so does the chechens or dagestanis.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531885049196453891

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531851337033719808

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## nufix

Apollon said:


> I never said that. I always said russia is a facist terror regime. Its no power though, the city of munich alone has bigger economy.
> 
> 
> There are no russian in caucasus btw



City of Munich has a bigger economy than Russia? Where do you get this number? Latest publication by the city itself shows that Munich's GDP is EUR 122 billion or EUR 202 billion if the greater Munich area is included. That is still smaller than Russia's EUR 1.3 trillion. Maybe you got it confused with Greece? Because yes, the greater Munich region does have a bigger economy than Greece's EUR 187 billion GDP.






Munich. The Business Location. Facts and Figures 2022 – Landeshauptstadt München – Referat für Arbeit und Wirtschaft







www.wirtschaft-muenchen.de

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531873595647045632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531821783623557122

Reactions: Like Like:
4 | Love Love:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531924586908069890

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## jhungary

Himars: what are the advanced rockets US is sending Ukraine?


High Mobility Artillery Rocket System can hit Russian targets up to 50 miles (80km) away, helping to ‘even the playing field’




www.theguardian.com





Looks like M142 HIMARS is coming, not M270 MLRS.

This make sense, HIMARS is air deployable, and this could get to the battlefield quicker. 

Also, at 80km range, HIMARS have longer ranger and more accurate than M270 and any Russian MLRS or Artillery. This will give the Ukrainian some edge.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> Destroyed nationalists from the 63rd Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Nikolaev-Kherson.​
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531925573278351361

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531928342223519744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531929121944739840

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## sammuel

jhungary said:


> Himars: what are the advanced rockets US is sending Ukraine?
> 
> 
> High Mobility Artillery Rocket System can hit Russian targets up to 50 miles (80km) away, helping to ‘even the playing field’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like M142 HIMARS is coming, not M270 MLRS.
> 
> This make sense, HIMARS is air deployable, and this could get to the battlefield quicker.
> 
> Also, at 80km range, HIMARS have longer ranger and more accurate than M270 and any Russian MLRS or Artillery. This will give the Ukrainian some edge.



From what i read , the M142 HIMARS is much more reliable system than the M270. It is the best system of this sort that US has .Many countries would like very much to buy it.

~

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531925367572807681


----------



## Viet

Step by step
Biden greenlights high precision long range rocket system to Ukraine, under the condition Ukraine does not attack Russia mainland.
The question is how can be avoided in midst of great battles.









USA liefern Raketensystem an Ukraine


Die Ukraine bekommt von den USA ein hochmodernes Raketensystem. Das kündigte Präsident Biden an. Als Bedingung nannte er, die Ukraine solle nicht russisches Territorium mit den Waffen angreifen. Das habe Kiew zugesichert.




www.tagesschau.de


----------



## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531682694492454913
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531683541104345088
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531684334930993153



The US propaganda about the Smerch is total BS, you don't know what you're talking about. These use Glonass guided rockets, with CEP of 5-10m and up to 120km range.

We've been hearing about how every single weapon system will be a "game changer", from javelins, M777, and now HIMARS. What's next? So far these weapons haven't had any major effect on the Russian advances, and they've been destroying M777s. The US uses these weapons under air cover, the Ukrainians don't have that. The HIMARS will be slowly picked off, much like the M777.

Ukraine conflict: Russian forces employ guided rockets 

11 MARCH 2022

Ukraine conflict: Russian forces employ guided rockets​by Sunil Nair

The BM-30 Smerch, recognisable from the distinctive MAZ-530M chassis. The Tornado-S is a deep upgrade to this system. (Russian MoD)

Evidence is emerging from the conflict in Ukraine appearing to show that Russian forces are utilizing guided rockets – the 9M544 and 9M549 – with video and photographs of the remains of these types appearing across social media.

*The 9M544 and 9M549 are understood to be the latest guided rockets fired from Russia's Tornado-S system. According to official information, these have a range of 120 km and a circular error probable (CEP) of 5–10 m.* Images of rocket fragments with the guidance and control unit code 9B706 have appeared in areas where the 9K515 Tornado-S multiple rocket launch (MRL) system has been active.

The guided rockets have achieved an increase in range and accuracy over earlier types by equipping the nose module with cruciform aerodynamic rudders and integrating the 9B706 control system with on-board radio-electronic equipment. *The 9B706 uses the CH398M strapdown inertial navigation system (SINS), which receives data from angular velocity and linear acceleration sensors. This, along with the GLONASS modules (also integrated into the 9B706 control system unit), provides a real-time data feed to generate an optimal quasi ballistic flight path for the 9M544 and 9M549 rockets.*

Furthermore, the rocket's apogee is in the upper layers of the stratosphere, thereby reducing drag and supporting the increase in range.

The marked increase in accuracy versus earlier rocket types – for example, 9M55K (HE Frag) and 9M528 (HE Frag - parachute retarded) rockets, which have standard electronic time devices *and a CEP of 150 m – is primarily due to the combination of the CH938M SINS and GLONAS*S.

The Tornado-S is a deep upgrade to the BM-30 Smerch MRL system, which it will eventually replace. The BM-30 is a family of 300 mm MRLs, designed to provide indirect fires in depth and in support of large, combined arms operations. The family is based on a common chassis – a modified MAZ-543M 8×8 cross-country truck – which gives off-road mobility. It is designed for independent operations and can conduct so-called ‘shoot and scoot' tactics.

Externally, the Tornado-S launch vehicle appears almost identical to the baseline BM-30 Smerch 9A52-2, but for a GLONASS receiver mounted on the forward-left portion of the crew compartment. Moreover, beyond this external differentiator, the upgraded mission systems include an automated digital fire control system (FCS), which enables the launcher to be automatically aimed at target co-ordinates received over the battle management system. The crew can also undertake the fires mission from within the truck cabin, instead of from the post located on the rear-left of the launcher. The external post remains however, and this is thought to be as a manual back-up in case of emergency.

Russia deploys the Tornado-S system, or complex, in brigades of four battalions. A battalion consists of three batteries with four launchers in each. Accompanying each launcher is a 9T234-2 trans loader vehicle based on the MAZ-543A 8×8 chassis, and this carries 12 rounds and is equipped with a crane.

Apart from the 12 launchers, the Tornado-S battalion includes the battalion and battery 1K 123 Vivary FCS and command-and-control (C2) units, which are housed in a K4310 fully enclosed box unit mounted on a KamAZ-4310 6 × 6 truck chassis. Each of these has its own power generator and a secure data and radio communications system that will support VHF communications to a range of 50 km and HF communications to a range of 350 km. The elements of the Vivary FCS can undertake automated or non-automated command-and-control of a Smerch-equipped MRL brigade.

The Command and Staff Vehicle (CSV) used by the brigade commander and brigade staff is also based on the KamAZ-4310 6×6. For the conflict in Ukraine, this vehicle may have been replaced by the MP32M1 unified C2 system, which is based on the KamAZ-43114 three-axle truck chassis equipped with the K4.5350 shelter. All brigade-level CSVs feature GLONASS/NAVSTAR receivers, other elements in the complex include the 1B44 meteorological station on an unarmoured ZIL-131 6×6 chassis, PM-2-70 MTO-V maintenance and repair unit also fitted to the ZIL-131, and the IT12M-2M topography vehicle which uses a GAZ-66 4×4 truck chassis.

A lighter version of the Tornado-S launcher vehicle, the 9A52-4 (6 round) MRL, is a slim-line version of the original 9A52 and 9A52-2. With six launcher tubes instead of 12, it is fitted on a Kamaz-63501 four-axle 8×8 truck chassis and is designed to be air transportable and operated by a reduced crew. This version is understood to be under development and while many media outlets are referring to the Tornado-S deployed in Ukraine as the 9A52-4, there is not yet evidence of this variant having been deployed.

In addition to the guided rockets, the Tornado-S can fire 9M55K rockets that carry 73 HE frag 9N235 or 9N210 bomblets, the anti-armour parachute retarded MOTIV-3F top attack 9M55K1 rocket, the anti-tank mine laying 9M55K4, the thermobaric fuel air explosive 9M55S, and the 9M55K7, which has a high-explosive anti-tank warhead, among others. These rockets also have extended range versions that enable them to engage targets at a range of 90 km.



F-22Raptor said:


> Russia has taken a ton of forces from other axis and concentrated them at Severodonetsk. The Ukrainians were massively outnumbered. But the Russians were significantly degraded. They don’t have much offensive capability left, and the further west they move, the longer their supply lines are.
> 
> The Russians are going to be in trouble once the HIMARS and M270s arrive. Their movement into Severodonetsk is largely due to their massed artillery. The HIMARS and M270s are highly accurate grid square eliminators.



You said the same thing about the M777s  you're like a broken stuck record.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531939155390832640


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## RoadAmerica

The SC said:


> 10 000 is small.. that's a whole division of SOF..


In modern times 10k is small and they’re not all sof again more propaganda



mazeto said:


> Slowly but surely Russia is imposing it's will on and off the battlefield. And it's going to get worse hereon. A lightweight can only stand toe-to-toe with a heavyweight for do long.. even if your corner is cheering you on. Cheers can only get you so far.
> Someone correctly pointed out the real reason why the collective economic might of the NATO couldn't harm Russia the way Western sanctions for example crushed Iraq or Afghanistan. It's real economy vs
> " service " ( aka illusory) economy. A country like Russia, China or even Iran and India derives it's economic power from real products, either natural ( eg oil, food, hydro, gas, minerals) or manufactured ( eg industrial stuff).
> Western countries economic might depends on the worship of their fake products by the rest of the world, drawing from the aura they built during colonialism
> .
> For example the outrageous prices we pay for their bags, branded shoes, cosmetics etc made in Bangladesh or Vietnam. Or the extortionate sums we pay for their useless degrees in the education sector. Etc.
> This war is a direct clash between a product vs service economy.. and it exposed the latter. For the same reason China can sleep easy now, West will kill themselves trying to sanction it.
> 
> I hope for greater humanity ( unfortunately for the Ukraine and Russia) this war drag on for a few years. It will thoroughly expose the Western myth re their military, economic and political might. This will help the rest of the world to decouple from their hegemony on world institutions through which they leech-off the rest of the world.
> It would be great foolishness on the part of the Chinese to not speed up this process( by helping Russia at this critical stage.. and the Chinese ain't fools.)
> ** To any Russian here: why the hell are rail lines to Poland still running freely???


Western myth come on man what planet are you living on? It’s called standard of living. 
Let’s see how the sanctions do in 12-24 months you can’t say they’re not effective after 3 months.

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## Hack-Hook

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531681785159028736


its me or all missed


----------



## RoadAmerica

jamahir said:


> @Apollon @Vergennes @Wood @F-22Raptor @Messerschmitt ( where is this fellow lately ? ) @Raffie @Get Ya Wig Split, one of your swastika boys encountering the Russians.
> 
> 
> 
> Please stop denying what they are. Right from them going on BBC and wailing how the ebeel Russians were killing blond, blue-eyed people to them hanging Russian-speaking pregnant women off wood beams in forests and for years supporting a WW2 era Nazi, Stepan Bandera, and so on it is clear who they are to everyone.


🥱 only clear to people that can’t think for themselves


----------



## Paul2

Ukraine advance in the south slowed down. Russia deployed scattered defensive formations. Many small groups of 4-12 vehicles, frequently moving, necessitating to hunt them down individually.

Many roads were mined, and infrastructure sabotaged. The roads Russians are using for retreat are know to be clear.

On the good side, they captured few more Russian officers.

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## RoadAmerica

jamahir said:


> The Russians have a way of simple and straight talk that appeals to the rational. Unlike the unbearable nonsense and lies uttered by the Western bloc leaders.
> 
> @Apollon, Boom Boom In Berlin not far.


Wait wait wait, I thought it was just reunification with Ukraine they wanted.
Now you’re saying they want to attack Berlin 🤷🏿‍♂️


----------



## jamahir

RoadAmerica said:


> 🥱 only clear to people that can’t think for themselves



LOL, so you are denying what even the BBC found embarrassing to broadcast, that wailing fellow going on and on about blond and blue-eyed people of European Ukraine ? And please go back to my post you quoted and watch Hassan's posted vid about the Russians examining a Nazi with Nazi tattoos all over and he emptying his bowels then and there.



RoadAmerica said:


> Wait wait wait, I thought it was just reunification with Ukraine they wanted.
> Now you’re saying they want to attack Berlin 🤷🏿‍♂️



ATM they are talking about only Poland but they also say this :


> Russian parliament member Oleg Matveychev weighed in: “If Poland starts any intervention... its current borders will be worthless.” Skabeeva wasn’t satisfied: “I wasn’t talking just about Poland, but mainly about Great Britain and the United States... they’re all lined up.” Avatkov chimed in: “No need to rush, there is a line. Everything in its time!”


My mention of Germany to Apollon was to remind him of the reality response to his constant posting on this thread calling for killing all allied troops in Ukraine and arming Ukraine with nuclear weapons.

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## jhungary

sammuel said:


> From what i read , the M142 HIMARS is much more reliable system than the M270. It is the best system of this sort that US has .Many countries would like very much to buy it.
> 
> ~


Well, it is quicker, faster to load, and it does not need a lot of support. Otherwise HIMARS is probably similar to MLRS, just M270 is a bit more bulky than HIMARS

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## F-22Raptor

Corax said:


> The US propaganda about the Smerch is total BS, you don't know what you're talking about. These use Glonass guided rockets, with CEP of 5-10m and up to 120km range.
> 
> We've been hearing about how every single weapon system will be a "game changer", from javelins, M777, and now HIMARS. What's next? So far these weapons haven't had any major effect on the Russian advances, and they've been destroying M777s. The US uses these weapons under air cover, the Ukrainians don't have that. The HIMARS will be slowly picked off, much like the M777.
> 
> Ukraine conflict: Russian forces employ guided rockets
> 
> 11 MARCH 2022
> 
> Ukraine conflict: Russian forces employ guided rockets​by Sunil Nair
> 
> The BM-30 Smerch, recognisable from the distinctive MAZ-530M chassis. The Tornado-S is a deep upgrade to this system. (Russian MoD)
> 
> Evidence is emerging from the conflict in Ukraine appearing to show that Russian forces are utilizing guided rockets – the 9M544 and 9M549 – with video and photographs of the remains of these types appearing across social media.
> 
> *The 9M544 and 9M549 are understood to be the latest guided rockets fired from Russia's Tornado-S system. According to official information, these have a range of 120 km and a circular error probable (CEP) of 5–10 m.* Images of rocket fragments with the guidance and control unit code 9B706 have appeared in areas where the 9K515 Tornado-S multiple rocket launch (MRL) system has been active.
> 
> The guided rockets have achieved an increase in range and accuracy over earlier types by equipping the nose module with cruciform aerodynamic rudders and integrating the 9B706 control system with on-board radio-electronic equipment. *The 9B706 uses the CH398M strapdown inertial navigation system (SINS), which receives data from angular velocity and linear acceleration sensors. This, along with the GLONASS modules (also integrated into the 9B706 control system unit), provides a real-time data feed to generate an optimal quasi ballistic flight path for the 9M544 and 9M549 rockets.*
> 
> Furthermore, the rocket's apogee is in the upper layers of the stratosphere, thereby reducing drag and supporting the increase in range.
> 
> The marked increase in accuracy versus earlier rocket types – for example, 9M55K (HE Frag) and 9M528 (HE Frag - parachute retarded) rockets, which have standard electronic time devices *and a CEP of 150 m – is primarily due to the combination of the CH938M SINS and GLONAS*S.
> 
> The Tornado-S is a deep upgrade to the BM-30 Smerch MRL system, which it will eventually replace. The BM-30 is a family of 300 mm MRLs, designed to provide indirect fires in depth and in support of large, combined arms operations. The family is based on a common chassis – a modified MAZ-543M 8×8 cross-country truck – which gives off-road mobility. It is designed for independent operations and can conduct so-called ‘shoot and scoot' tactics.
> 
> Externally, the Tornado-S launch vehicle appears almost identical to the baseline BM-30 Smerch 9A52-2, but for a GLONASS receiver mounted on the forward-left portion of the crew compartment. Moreover, beyond this external differentiator, the upgraded mission systems include an automated digital fire control system (FCS), which enables the launcher to be automatically aimed at target co-ordinates received over the battle management system. The crew can also undertake the fires mission from within the truck cabin, instead of from the post located on the rear-left of the launcher. The external post remains however, and this is thought to be as a manual back-up in case of emergency.
> 
> Russia deploys the Tornado-S system, or complex, in brigades of four battalions. A battalion consists of three batteries with four launchers in each. Accompanying each launcher is a 9T234-2 trans loader vehicle based on the MAZ-543A 8×8 chassis, and this carries 12 rounds and is equipped with a crane.
> 
> Apart from the 12 launchers, the Tornado-S battalion includes the battalion and battery 1K 123 Vivary FCS and command-and-control (C2) units, which are housed in a K4310 fully enclosed box unit mounted on a KamAZ-4310 6 × 6 truck chassis. Each of these has its own power generator and a secure data and radio communications system that will support VHF communications to a range of 50 km and HF communications to a range of 350 km. The elements of the Vivary FCS can undertake automated or non-automated command-and-control of a Smerch-equipped MRL brigade.
> 
> The Command and Staff Vehicle (CSV) used by the brigade commander and brigade staff is also based on the KamAZ-4310 6×6. For the conflict in Ukraine, this vehicle may have been replaced by the MP32M1 unified C2 system, which is based on the KamAZ-43114 three-axle truck chassis equipped with the K4.5350 shelter. All brigade-level CSVs feature GLONASS/NAVSTAR receivers, other elements in the complex include the 1B44 meteorological station on an unarmoured ZIL-131 6×6 chassis, PM-2-70 MTO-V maintenance and repair unit also fitted to the ZIL-131, and the IT12M-2M topography vehicle which uses a GAZ-66 4×4 truck chassis.
> 
> A lighter version of the Tornado-S launcher vehicle, the 9A52-4 (6 round) MRL, is a slim-line version of the original 9A52 and 9A52-2. With six launcher tubes instead of 12, it is fitted on a Kamaz-63501 four-axle 8×8 truck chassis and is designed to be air transportable and operated by a reduced crew. This version is understood to be under development and while many media outlets are referring to the Tornado-S deployed in Ukraine as the 9A52-4, there is not yet evidence of this variant having been deployed.
> 
> In addition to the guided rockets, the Tornado-S can fire 9M55K rockets that carry 73 HE frag 9N235 or 9N210 bomblets, the anti-armour parachute retarded MOTIV-3F top attack 9M55K1 rocket, the anti-tank mine laying 9M55K4, the thermobaric fuel air explosive 9M55S, and the 9M55K7, which has a high-explosive anti-tank warhead, among others. These rockets also have extended range versions that enable them to engage targets at a range of 90 km.
> 
> 
> 
> You said the same thing about the M777s  you're like a broken stuck record.



The Smerchs don’t have the accuracy, digital fire control capability, and can’t reload as quickly as US rocket systems. Russian rocket systems are notoriously inaccurate which is why they have to saturate targets. US rocket systems are far superior and it’s not close. 


Javelins are a huge reason why Russia lost in Kyiv and Kharkiv. 

Do you have any evidence Russia is destroying M777s? They are a critical capability, but Russia has significant numerical superiority at the Eastern front. That’s why they’ve made incremental gains. 

And yes, HIMARS will be game changing with the right numbers. It’s by far the biggest boost in firepower for the Ukrainians to date.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531980719634976772

Russian losses now over 4,200

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## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> The Smerchs don’t have the accuracy, digital fire control capability, and can’t reload as quickly as US rocket systems. Russian rocket systems are notoriously inaccurate which is why they have to saturate targets. US rocket systems are far superior and it’s not close.
> 
> 
> Javelins are a huge reason why Russia lost in Kyiv and Kharkiv.
> 
> Do you have any evidence Russia is destroying M777s? They are a critical capability, but Russia has significant numerical superiority at the Eastern front. That’s why they’ve made incremental gains.
> 
> And yes, HIMARS will be game changing with the right numbers. It’s by far the biggest boost in firepower for the Ukrainians to date.



No, look it up. Smearch can reload in about 20min. You're clueless about Russian systems.

No doubt the ATGM weapons have had an effect, but the main reason for heavy Russian losses, especially around Kyiv, is bad tactics, poorly trained conscripts, and outdated equipment. It's poor performance of the Russians, rather than any major weapon system. 

Yes, there is evidence of the Russians destroying M777s, especially with loitering munitions, look it up in this thread, it's been posted numerous times, bet you've seen it and ignored it. I ain't gonna spoon feed you.

You don't get it. Without air cover, the M777s and HIMARS will be picked off, as the Russians have been doing.

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## F-22Raptor

Corax said:


> No, look it up. Smearch can reload in about 20min. You're clueless about Russian systems.
> 
> No doubt the ATGM weapons have had an effect, but the main reason for heavy Russian losses, especially around Kyiv, is bad tactics, poorly trained conscripts, and outdated equipment. It's poor performance of the Russians, rather than any major weapon system.
> 
> Yes, there is evidence of the Russians destroying M777s, especially with loitering munitions, look it up in this thread, it's been posted numerous times, bet you've seen it and ignored it. I ain't gonna spoon feed you.
> 
> You don't get it. Without air cover, the M777s and HIMARS will be picked off, as the Russians have been doing.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531986413331304449

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531986421556334594

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531986427843682307

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531986434177085447

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531986439902269441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531986444973137924

And there's only been 1 video of a Russian loitering munition attacking an M777...........which missed. Theres been no other evidence of M777s being attacked, much less destroyed.


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## Flight of falcon

PakFactor said:


> Waste of money.
> This why pump IRA, SEP IRA and other retirement accounts along with other tax loopholes pay close to 0 in taxes. For business owners like myself Trump left a lot of good things in tax reform.




What the Fu… waste of money. Inflation and oil prices are destroying low income and middle income families here in the USA and sleepy Joe is wasting all this money to protect a Nazi regime which is like a sink hole for our tax money. 

Bastard Joe …. We need Trump back.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531986845776617472


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## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531986413331304449
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531986421556334594
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531986427843682307
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531986434177085447
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531986439902269441
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531986444973137924
> 
> And there's only been 1 video of a Russian loitering munition attacking an M777...........which missed. Theres been no other evidence of M777s being attacked, much less destroyed.



Demonstrates the Russians can locate and destroy them, like I said, without air cover, they are vulnerable. Those comparisons are not based on like-for-like system...since when is the Grad series of MLRS similar in scope to HIMARS?!!

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## PakFactor

Flight of falcon said:


> What the Fu… waste of money. Inflation and oil prices are destroying low income and middle income families here in the USA and sleepy Joe is wasting all this money to protect a Nazi regime which is like a sink hole for our tax money.
> 
> Bastard Joe …. We need Trump back.



I loved Trump he was an orange but he was our orange --

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## F-22Raptor

Corax said:


> Demonstrates the Russians can locate and destroy them, like I said, without air cover, they are vulnerable. Those comparisons are not based on like-for-like system...since when is the Grad series of MLRS similar in scope to HIMARS?!!




Theres been absolutely zero evidence any M777 has been destroyed. Stop spreading false information.


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## jhungary

Corax said:


> No, look it up. Smearch can reload in about 20min. You're clueless about Russian systems.
> 
> No doubt the ATGM weapons have had an effect, but the main reason for heavy Russian losses, especially around Kyiv, is bad tactics, poorly trained conscripts, and outdated equipment. It's poor performance of the Russians, rather than any major weapon system.
> 
> Yes, there is evidence of the Russians destroying M777s, especially with loitering munitions, look it up in this thread, it's been posted numerous times, bet you've seen it and ignored it. I ain't gonna spoon feed you.
> 
> You don't get it. Without air cover, the M777s and HIMARS will be picked off, as the Russians have been doing.


20 minutes stationary is a long time, you can reload a HIMARS with a crew of 3 in just 3 minutes. The Record time in the ARmy is 1 minutes 45 seconds.

Also, Russia did not provide enough evidence on "Destroying" M777, the only evidence so far is the photo (from a video) but that was not a M777. You can see the ballistic shield (Circled in Black) on the "Destroyed" system, M777 does not have them, they are probably D-30 system that got destroyed or being attacked.




















Russians Bragging They Allegedly Destroyed 777 Howitzers, But Did Not Provide Enough Evidence | Defense Express


It seems that the American M777 howitzers delivered to Ukraine have already spoiled the occupiers' troops so much that they are inventing "victories" with destroyed howitzers




en.defence-ua.com


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## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> Theres been absolutely zero evidence any M777 has been destroyed. Stop spreading false information.



The US estimates around 15,000 Ukrainian dead, similar losses in armour as the Russians. Not much evidence for that is there? Wonder why. Doesn't mean it's not true.


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## Flight of falcon

Trump would have never supported this war. He would have let Ukraine die it’s natural and quick death instead of slow prolonged suffering where defence firms make their billions before finally letting Ukraine die.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Ukraine advance in the south slowed down. Russia deployed scattered defensive formations. Many small groups of 4-12 vehicles, frequently moving, necessitating to hunt them down individually.
> 
> Many roads were mined, and infrastructure sabotaged. The roads Russians are using for retreat are know to be clear.
> 
> On the good side, they captured few more Russian officers.



IIRC Ukraine have recovered 4 settlement with the latest push in the south. Davydiv Brid, Mykolaivika, Vysokopillya and Snihulivka

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## Apollon

SecularNationalist said:


> By citizenship they are Russians , so does the chechens or dagestanis.



They arent russian. Its that simple.


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## Viet

Flight of falcon said:


> Trump would have never supported this war. He would have let Ukraine die it’s natural and quick death instead of slow prolonged suffering where defence firms make their billions before finally letting Ukraine die.


Trump is history. Live with it. Ukraine will win this war I have no doubt. At the beginning I was sceptical but now things are very clear. Putin will lose. Russia will lose everything. USSR lost the war in Afghanistan because of the strong resistance of primitive armed rebels and US stingers. How can a much weaker Russia win a war against heavily armed Ukraine, with weapons and money assistance from 2/3 world economies? Hopeless.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532003904321425409

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532006847410065409

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## Meengla

mazeto said:


> Slowly but surely Russia is imposing it's will on and off the battlefield. And it's going to get worse hereon. A lightweight can only stand toe-to-toe with a heavyweight for do long.. even if your corner is cheering you on. Cheers can only get you so far.
> Someone correctly pointed out the real reason why the collective economic might of the NATO couldn't harm Russia the way Western sanctions for example crushed Iraq or Afghanistan. It's real economy vs
> " service " ( aka illusory) economy. A country like Russia, China or even Iran and India derives it's economic power from real products, either natural ( eg oil, food, hydro, gas, minerals) or manufactured ( eg industrial stuff).
> Western countries economic might depends on the worship of their fake products by the rest of the world, drawing from the aura they built during colonialism
> .
> For example the outrageous prices we pay for their bags, branded shoes, cosmetics etc made in Bangladesh or Vietnam. Or the extortionate sums we pay for their useless degrees in the education sector. Etc.
> This war is a direct clash between a product vs service economy.. and it exposed the latter. For the same reason China can sleep easy now, West will kill themselves trying to sanction it.
> 
> I hope for greater humanity ( unfortunately for the Ukraine and Russia) this war drag on for a few years. It will thoroughly expose the Western myth re their military, economic and political might. This will help the rest of the world to decouple from their hegemony on world institutions through which they leech-off the rest of the world.
> It would be great foolishness on the part of the Chinese to not speed up this process( by helping Russia at this critical stage.. and the Chinese ain't fools.)
> ** To any Russian here: why the hell are rail lines to Poland still running freely???



Thought provoking post. And, as I had said very early in this thread, China gains the most and China would be the next target if Russia falls now. If Ukraine is Russia's new Afghanistan then Ukraine is also the West's new Afghanistan. The two prime beneficiaries are China and America, at least for the foreseeable future. The rest of 'the West' has been *conned again by the neocons* in America!! 



Flight of falcon said:


> What the Fu… waste of money. Inflation and oil prices are destroying low income and middle income families here in the USA and sleepy Joe is wasting all this money to protect a Nazi regime which is like a sink hole for our tax money.
> 
> Bastard Joe …. We need Trump back.


Yup. Though I am not convinced about the Nazi angle in Ukraine, Trump, who went to the DMZ and shook hands with Kim, was a businessman above all and certainly not as in bed with the various Lobbies in Washington as the good old Biden is. 


Viet said:


> Trump is history. Live with it. Ukraine will win this war I have no doubt. At the beginning I was sceptical but now things are very clear. Putin will lose. Russia will lose everything. USSR lost the war in Afghanistan because of the strong resistance of primitive armed rebels and US stingers. How can a much weaker Russia win a war against heavily armed Ukraine, with weapons and money assistance from 2/3 world economies? Hopeless.



Long term, yes, Russia will lose but not because of this war. It will be because of the weaknesses in the Russian society and declining birthrate. But short term? Once Putin takes and consolidates his gains in the eastern / southern Ukraine, he will have attained a glory even beyond Russia on short term basis. I don't think once Russia consolidates gains in the mainly Russian-speaking eastern/southern regions of Ukraine there will be as much damage or even civil war in those occupied region as some are implying here. On the contrary... Russians would have some rivers are natural boundaries, relatively pliant local population, and military infra closer to Kiev than ever before after the consolidation. 

PS. *What we are witnessing is never seen since the end of World War 2, which is nothing short of a gigantic geostrategic shifts. The cursed Eurasian continent, of which Pakistan is unfortunately not a distant part of, is yet again going to shape human history for the next many decades. Fascinating and frightening at the same time!!*

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## PakFactor

Meengla said:


> Thought provoking post. And, as I had said very early in this thread, China gains the most and China would be the next target if Russia falls now. If Ukraine is Russia's new Afghanistan then Ukraine is also the West's new Afghanistan. The two prime beneficiaries are China and America, at least for the foreseeable future. The rest of 'the West' has been *conned again by the neocons* in America!!
> 
> 
> Yup. Though I am not convinced about the Nazi angle in Ukraine, Trump, who went to the DMZ and shook hands with Kim, was a businessman above all and certainly not as in bed with the various Lobbies in Washington as the good old Biden is.
> 
> 
> Long term, yes, Russia will lose but not because of this war. It will be because of the weaknesses in the Russian society and declining birthrate. But short term? Once Putin takes and consolidates his gains in the eastern / southern Ukraine, he will have attained a glory even beyond Russia on short term basis. I don't think once Russia consolidates gains in the mainly Russian-speaking eastern/southern regions of Ukraine there will be as much damage or even civil war in those occupied region as some are implying here. On the contrary... Russians would have some rivers are natural boundaries, relatively pliant local population, and military infra closer to Kiev than ever before after the consolidation.
> 
> PS. *What we are witnessing is never seen since the end of World War 2, which is nothing short of a gigantic geostrategic shifts. The cursed Eurasian continent, of which Pakistan is unfortunately not a distant part of, is yet again going to shape human history for the next many decades. Fascinating and frightening at the same time!!*



Well put many just see military victory or defeat but have lost the big picture looking at small details.

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## Corax

When nations take short-term interests instead of the long-term bigger picture, the rest of the world suffers, Look at what happened in Afghanistan since the 80s and Iraq and the wider Middle East since the early 2000s. In the worst case scenario, Ukraine could become an openly bona fide neo-Nazi state, all because of the zeal of the US and Western Europeans to "weaken and destroy" Russia.

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## Meengla

Corax said:


> When nations take short-term interests instead of the long-term bigger picture, the rest of the world suffers, Look at what happened in Afghanistan since the 80s and Iraq and the wider Middle East since the early 2000s. In the worst case scenario, Ukraine could become an openly bona fide neo-Nazi state, all because of the zeal of the US and Western Europeans to "weaken and destroy" Russia.



I have said that, given time, Russia, at least from the west of the Urals (maybe minus the Caucuses) would have naturally become part of Europe. Putin is the last Tsar and after him it would be another Yeltsin or Medvedev; and Putin is already around 70. But some Neocons couldn't wait a few more years. 

It's hilarious that even Switzerland is looking for the NATO membership! So Russia would is so powerful that it would roll over NATO countries and threaten a historically neutral Switzerland?? Europeans have lost it--they have no more original narrative left after the two World Wars. They are in a mental lockdown, beholden to the pressure tactics of the Lobbies in Washington. Such a sad situation for the Mother Continent.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531965128111017985


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## nangyale

Meengla said:


> I have said that, given time, Russia, at least from the west of the Urals (maybe minus the Caucuses) would have naturally become part of Europe. Putin is the last Tsar and after him it would be another Yeltsin or Medvedev; and Putin is already around 70. But some Neocons couldn't wait a few more years.
> 
> It's hilarious that even Switzerland is looking for the NATO membership! So Russia would is so powerful that it would roll over NATO countries and threaten a historically neutral Switzerland?? Europeans have lost it--they have no more original narrative left after the two World Wars. They are in a mental lockdown, beholden to the pressure tactics of the Lobbies in Washington. Such a sad situation for the Mother Continent.


Agree with your post about Europeans.

Just wanted to add that it's not a good idea to discount the Russians. 
They will remain a power to be reckoned with for the foreseeable future. 
When Hitler's war machine and their own civil war couldn't destroy their spirits in thepreviouscentury, then comparatively Biden/Nuland and their European poodles are nothing. 

Also don't bet on Medvedev being the next president, going by current trajectory it's most probably Patrushev, quite a competent person I hasten to add.

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## RoadAmerica

jamahir said:


> LOL, so you are denying what even the BBC found embarrassing to broadcast, that wailing fellow going on and on about blond and blue-eyed people of European Ukraine ? And please go back to my post you quoted and watch Hassan's posted vid about the Russians examining a Nazi with Nazi tattoos all over and he emptying his bowels then and there.
> 
> 
> 
> ATM they are talking about only Poland but they also say this :
> 
> My mention of Germany to Apollon was to remind him of the reality response to his constant posting on this thread calling for killing all allied troops in Ukraine and arming Ukraine with nuclear weapons.


Lol I hope Putler attacks Poland it will be lights out for him and his oligarchs. 
There are people with nazi ratios in every country in the world, last I heard Argentina was a hot bed


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## SecularNationalist

Apollon said:


> They arent russian. Its that simple.


Side-effects of taking anti depression pills non stop for the last 3 months.

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## Apollon

SecularNationalist said:


> Side-effects of taking anti depression pills non stop for the last 3 months.



I think you take this way too personal buddy. Dont know how much it effects you but we just grill russians by the thousands in their tanks and rook 300 billion russian assets all the while ripping Ukraine out of russian orbit. 


This is not about Ukraine buddy, its about crushing russia and that goes quite well. Russia is dissolved in that acid bath.


In short they are the only people right now that can be killed without judgement. Ukrainians even sell russian skulls, jaws ect as trophies. 


Its like all wars the west fights, for the others its about survival. For us, its a hobby.


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## Viet

Germany will deliver the most modern anti aircraft missile system and anti artillery system to Ukraine.
The systems will protect Ukraine cities against Russia aerial and artillery assaults.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532034334865113090


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## SecularNationalist

Apollon said:


> I think you take this way too personal buddy. Dont know how much it effects you but we just grill russians by the thousands in their tanks and rook 300 billion russian assets all the while ripping Ukraine out of russian orbit.
> 
> 
> This is not about Ukraine buddy, its about crushing russia and that goes quite well. Russia is dissolved in that acid bath.
> 
> 
> In short they are the only people right now that can be killed without judgement. Ukrainians even sell russian skulls, jaws ect as trophies.
> 
> 
> Its like all wars the west fights, for the others its about survival. For us, its a hobby.


See clearly you are frustrated and biased. You dont know what are you talking.

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## Viet

Apollon said:


> I think you take this way too personal buddy. Dont know how much it effects you but we just grill russians by the thousands in their tanks and rook 300 billion russian assets all the while ripping Ukraine out of russian orbit.
> 
> 
> This is not about Ukraine buddy, its about crushing russia and that goes quite well. Russia is dissolved in that acid bath.
> 
> 
> In short they are the only people right now that can be killed without judgement. Ukrainians even sell russian skulls, jaws ect as trophies.
> 
> 
> Its like all wars the west fights, for the others its about survival. For us, its a hobby.


There is a proposal on the table. The West can put the entire rich people of Russia under sanction. These are about 20,000 Russians. If the West takes them the money away Russia will only have poor people. They will cry their tears at Putin shoulder.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532049445348589571

4 HIMARS is not enough. Need at least 50 to make a big difference. But it’s better than nothing.

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## StraightEdge

Putin's War Machine Is Thriving Off Russian Energy Sales - Bloomberg

Few quotes from the article - 



> Russia is being propelled by a flood of cash that could average *$800 million a day* this year — and that's just what the commodity superpower is raking in from oil and gas.





> Even with some countries halting or phasing out energy purchases, *Russia's oil-and-gas revenue will be about $285 billion this year*, according to estimates from Bloomberg Economics based on Economy Ministry projections. That would exceed the 2021 figure by more than one-fifth. Throw in other commodities, and it more than makes up for the $300 billion in foreign reserves frozen as part of the sanctions.





> *Oil-export revenue alone is up 50% from a year earlier*, according to the International Energy Agency. Russia’s top oil producers made their highest combined profit in almost a decade in the first quarter, Moscow-based SberCIB Investment Research estimates. And wheat exports continue — at higher prices — as sanctions on Russian agriculture aren't even being discussed because the world needs its grain.





> The ruble has become another symbol used by Putin to project strength. Once mocked by Biden as “rubble” when it initially collapsed in response to the sanctions, it’s since been propped up by Russia to become the world’s *best-performing currency against the dollar this year*.





> Indian refiners purchased more than 40 million barrels of Russian oil between the start of the Ukraine invasion in late February and early May. That’s 20% more than Russia-India flows for the whole of 2021, according to Bloomberg calculations based on trade ministry data. Refiners are seeking private deals instead of public tenders to get Russian barrels cheaper than market prices.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532052530569654277


----------



## The SC



Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> In short they are the only people right now that can be killed without judgement. Ukrainians even sell russian skulls, jaws ect as trophies.



@Foinikas, he's on it again.  



Apollon said:


> Its like all wars the west fights, for the others its about survival. For us, its a hobby.



Wow ! You celebrate killing just like someone celebrating a birthday.

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> In short they are the only people right now that can be killed without judgement.


First of all,you're not the right person to judge. 



Apollon said:


> Ukrainians even sell russian skulls, jaws ect as trophies.


Second,if you don't think that this is barbaric for a supposedly "progressive European society",then you have to think about how psychotic and sick it is.

I'll bet that if it was the Russians who sold Ukrainian skulls,you would have gone crazy talking about how "barbaric" they are as a people.



Apollon said:


> Its like all wars the west fights, for the others its about survival. For us, its a hobby.


It's a hobby if you play war on your PC,it's not a hobby when you go out and fight. Please,stop saying nonsense. 

You could have said that the Western armies are better prepared and armed. Which of course isn't always the case,but you would have made a point. 



Apollon said:


> This is not about Ukraine buddy, its about crushing russia and that goes quite well. Russia is dissolved in that acid bath.


Let me show you something:







War is bad on both sides. And this is a war between two brother peoples. 

Stop feeling happy about it.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531919766461779969

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531920957593505794

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531919382359822337

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531906825297207296

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531913092505952258
Russian Deputy Foreign Minister: Arms shipments to Ukraine increase the risk of "direct confrontation" between Russia and the United States
@AsharqNewsBrk


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531898895651024897

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531914624827793408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532044241270190081

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## A.P. Richelieu

Flight of falcon said:


> Trump would have never supported this war. He would have let Ukraine die it’s natural and quick death instead of slow prolonged suffering where defence firms make their billions before finally letting Ukraine die.


Trump does things if there is any personal gain, otherwise not. That is why he and his supporters are scum.


----------



## zartosht

This war is becoming eerily similar to the eastern front of ww2.

Russians using massed artillery to pound the living crap out of any resistance areas. Attack on multiple fronts to create cauldrons, stop attacking a front thats putting up strong resistance, and throw everything at the front your making progress in. 

This not only causes massive casualties for the defending side, but they constantly have to shift reserves and logistics all over the place. Which explains the extreme difficulty the ukies are having in supplying their men, and the low morale, desertion and mass surrenders were seeing.

Meanwhile the west is trying and thinking (exactly the same as germany) to throw some wunderweapon in to (unsucessfully) stop the Russian juggernaut. 

Meanwhile the propaganda channels go into overdrive boasting about tactical success' but ignoring the strategic losses, or even their own tactical losses . In a war any side will have tactical losses and victories, its the strategic picture that counts. That presents a picture to their gullible people that they are "winning".

Lastly add in the loss of prepared defensive positons that they had 8 years to dig into. 8 years of military experts setting up several defensive layers that ensures and attacking army will be getting fired upon from many differnent angles/flanks. 

all this adds to the snowball effect were seeing. rapid ukie losses, massive/unsustainable ukie casualties, and steady and increasing russian advances.. and lets not even go into the economic front where the west is losing even harder in..... what a disaster the US got these dumb euros into...

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532024500694523906


----------



## PakFactor

Come on Russia — just nuke the damn European continent already

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531965317005598720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531945383085080578

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531938185281953792

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## Foinikas

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Trump does things if there is any personal gain, otherwise not. That is why he and his supporters are scum.


Ok Mr.Democrat.



PakFactor said:


> Come on Russia — just nuke the damn European continent already


🤔 You know how many Pakistanis are in Europe? 😂😂😂


----------



## jamahir

Foinikas said:


> Let me show you something:
> 
> View attachment 850078



What does that mean ?

And thanks for calmly reasoning with him. 



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531965317005598720



@Apollon @Vergennes @F-22Raptor @Raffie @Wood @Get Ya Wig Split, so most of the regular Ukrainian soldiers are just forced to fight and die for the stubborn government of Zelensky under threat of jail for a long time. And those who rebel after drafting are taken to destinations unknown. This has been a pattern for so many days, we have such vids often of entire units declaring in messages to the leadership that they don't want to fight for some reason or another "although Slava Ukraina" most probably because they don't want to be burnt alive by hot swastikas on their backs by the Azov boys and girls.

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532060365038555136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532059456657231873

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532061191836934145

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532055145030242305

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532055288735576066

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## Foinikas

jamahir said:


> What does that mean ?


First picture on the upper left corner says "British Prime Minister: Slow,but steady Moscow's progress in Donbass"

The middle one says "Zelensky: We have to face reality and talk with Putin"

And the one on the right upper corner says "Ukraine: 5,000 Ukrainian POWs are held in the Donbass"

Reactions: Love Love:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532052270732431360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531976847550038019


jamahir said:


> What does that mean ?
> 
> And thanks for calmly reasoning with him.
> 
> 
> 
> @Apollon @Vergennes @F-22Raptor @Raffie @Wood @Get Ya Wig Split, so most of the regular Ukrainian soldiers are just forced to fight and die for the stubborn government of Zelensky under threat of jail for a long time. And those who rebel after drafting are taken to destinations unknown. This has been a pattern for so many days, we have such vids often of entire units declaring in messages to the leadership that they don't want to fight for some reason or another "although Slava Ukraina" most probably because they don't want to be burnt alive by hot swastikas on their backs by the Azov boys and girls.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531976406736982016

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531973062047854598

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531970155755995137

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531948645414748161

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3


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532086222499233794

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532088054814580738

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531967540146098178

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531948900755587073

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Primus

PakFactor said:


> Come on Russia — just nuke the damn European continent already


Bro i live in the UK, that shit gonna affect me 😭

Reactions: Haha Haha:
3 | Wow Wow:
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1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531920544408412160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531968501354725377

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531917175493210114

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

jamahir said:


> @Apollon @Vergennes @Wood @F-22Raptor @Messerschmitt ( where is this fellow lately ? ) @Raffie @Get Ya Wig Split, one of your swastika boys encountering the Russians.

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531968501354725377

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> First of all,you're not the right person to judge.
> 
> 
> Second,if you don't think that this is barbaric for a supposedly "progressive European society",then you have to think about how psychotic and sick it is.
> 
> I'll bet that if it was the Russians who sold Ukrainian skulls,you would have gone crazy talking about how "barbaric" they are as a people.
> 
> 
> It's a hobby if you play war on your PC,it's not a hobby when you go out and fight. Please,stop saying nonsense.
> 
> You could have said that the Western armies are better prepared and armed. Which of course isn't always the case,but you would have made a point.
> 
> 
> Let me show you something:
> 
> View attachment 850078
> 
> 
> War is bad on both sides. And this is a war between two brother peoples.
> 
> Stop feeling happy about it.




Ukraine js certainly not russian brother, its even more greek than Russian. I said it before, crazy how you betray your own people. 


As for russian skulls, i dont see any problem with that.



zartosht said:


> This war is becoming eerily similar to the eastern front of ww2.
> 
> Russians using massed artillery to pound the living crap out of any resistance areas. Attack on multiple fronts to create cauldrons, stop attacking a front thats putting up strong resistance, and throw everything at the front your making progress in.
> 
> This not only causes massive casualties for the defending side, but they constantly have to shift reserves and logistics all over the place. Which explains the extreme difficulty the ukies are having in supplying their men, and the low morale, desertion and mass surrenders were seeing.
> 
> Meanwhile the west is trying and thinking (exactly the same as germany) to throw some wunderweapon in to (unsucessfully) stop the Russian juggernaut.
> 
> Meanwhile the propaganda channels go into overdrive boasting about tactical success' but ignoring the strategic losses, or even their own tactical losses . In a war any side will have tactical losses and victories, its the strategic picture that counts. That presents a picture to their gullible people that they are "winning".
> 
> Lastly add in the loss of prepared defensive positons that they had 8 years to dig into. 8 years of military experts setting up several defensive layers that ensures and attacking army will be getting fired upon from many differnent angles/flanks.
> 
> all this adds to the snowball effect were seeing. rapid ukie losses, massive/unsustainable ukie casualties, and steady and increasing russian advances.. and lets not even go into the economic front where the west is losing even harder in..... what a disaster the US got these dumb euros into...




Russian juggernaut? With that low birthrate? Its llain and simple, kill as much russians as possible. They cant replace it. Each one killed, is a family line that ends. Its that simple. Russia lacks the manpower for prolonged war. All we have to do is to constantly ship more and more weapons and watch



jamahir said:


> What does that mean ?
> 
> And thanks for calmly reasoning with him.
> 
> 
> 
> @Apollon @Vergennes @F-22Raptor @Raffie @Wood @Get Ya Wig Split, so most of the regular Ukrainian soldiers are just forced to fight and die for the stubborn government of Zelensky under threat of jail for a long time. And those who rebel after drafting are taken to destinations unknown. This has been a pattern for so many days, we have such vids often of entire units declaring in messages to the leadership that they don't want to fight for some reason or another "although Slava Ukraina" most probably because they don't want to be burnt alive by hot swastikas on their backs by the Azov boys and girls.




I told you to not add me on blocked users contents. Thanks


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

Lockheed Martin delivers the 800th F-35 stealth fighter jet (800 Strong)​


Lockheed Martin delivers the 800th F-35 stealth fighter jet (800 Strong)



Reuters: Germany to buy 60 Chinook helicopters (Russia in shambles)​








Reuters: Germany to buy 60 Chinook helicopters (Russia in shambles)


Germany Picks Chinook Over King Stallion For New Heavy-Lift Helicopter Choosing Chinook aligns Germany’s heavy lift capabilities with eight other NATO nations. he German government will buy Boeing’s CH-47 Chinook to satisfy the need for a modern heavy-lift helicopter, passing on the Sikorsky...



defence.pk

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532050844375519235


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Ukraine js certainly not russian brother, its even more greek than Russian. I said it before, crazy how you betray your own people.


I betray my own people? You're the one saying Ukraine is more Greek than Russian. Do you hear yourself? 



Apollon said:


> As for russian skulls, i dont see any problem with that.


You're the one who always talks about civilised Europe and barbarian Asia and Africa. What are we,heathens? 



Apollon said:


> All we have to do is to constantly ship more and more weapons and watch


And destroy our economies in the proccess? I know you keep bragging about your money,but if this war brought your family down economically,to the point of not just not being able to travel here and there for your sports,but to only have one house and not being able to pay the bills,would you still insist for the war to keep going on?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532099495676239874


----------



## Hack-Hook

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532086222499233794
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532088054814580738


what for , to get destroyed

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## ckf

Hack-Hook said:


> what for , to get destroyed


I think this is escalation to WW3, drones and MLRS will be used to attack Russian supply lines, so this will get out of hand pretty quickly. We will see.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## PakFactor

Huffal said:


> Bro i live in the UK, that shit gonna affect me 😭



Ghar Vapsi haha

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532094953924567041

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532059504732676096

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532041532446064640

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532106178926362625

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## Wergeland

I hope everyone here on PDF who lives in the West and supports and cheer for Russia, by now realize that, if there ever is a full scale War between the West and Russia, and even ICBMs starts flying, Russia wont differentiate between YOU, neutrals and those who are against Russia.

Its OK that you are against your own countries foreign policies. But to wish that a foreign country likely to want to harm your own country, wins a war, is just plain stupid and what i call self-defeating mentality.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532070806812889089

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532053763279794181

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532052114435936257

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## Hakwa Nadro

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532041532446064640
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532106178926362625


The look on the soldiers face says it all, even their souls are disheartened.
Russia should sell sludge from Moscow's sewerage dump to the USA at half the price

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## Hassan Al-Somal

LEVI _*🌍*_

*The main events of June 1
*
_*⚡️*_*Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry*

_*💥*_*High-precision air-based missiles *of the Russian Aerospace Forces have hit *5* control points, as well as *29* areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration.

_*✈️💥*_*Operational-tactical, army and unmanned aviation* have hit *61* areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration.

_*▫️*_The attacks have resulted in the elimination of more than *140* nationalists

_*💥*_*Missile troops and artillery* have hit *128* command posts, *169* firing positions of artillery and mortar batteries, as well as *623* areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration.

_*▫️*_The attacks have resulted in the elimination of up to *200* nationalists, as well as *24* units of weapons and military equipment, including *1* battery of 155-mm M777 howitzers

*Liberated territory* 

_*▫️*_1st June - Children’s Day was celebrated in all liberated territory

*Russia*

_*▫️*_A free travel program for schoolchildren has been launched in Russia: about 100,000 children will be able to go on trips with their parents. So far, this is a pilot project

_*▫️❗️*_Putin supported the idea to revive the honorary title "Mother Heroine".

Payment to women who received the title of "Mother Heroine" will amount to one million rubles

_*▫️*_The governor of St. Petersburg Alexander Beglov and the head of the administration of Mariupol Konstantin Ivashchenko signed an agreement making the cities „sister cities“
*
Daily Dose of Diarrhea - Europe

▫️*Germany to supply IRIS-T air defense missiles to Ukraine *but* these missile defense missiles need to be manufactured first

_*▫️*_Hungary has demanded that Patriarch Kirill be removed from the EU's proposed list of people subject to sanctions

*United States

▫️*Biden announced a new package of military assistance to Ukraine, it includes the Himars MLRS - White House

*Daily Dose of Diarrhea - Ukraine

▫️*Ukraine is gradually moving towards a dictatorial form of government, said Oleg Sinyutka, deputy from the Poroshenko party

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532120586708819969


----------



## Vergennes

In the Kherson region from the direction of Dnipropetrovsk region, the Armed Forces have already liberated more than 20 settlements - the head of the Kherson Regional State Administration Gennady Laguta​








In the Kherson region from the direction of Dnipropetrovsk region, the Armed Forces have already liberated more than 20 settlements - the head of the Kherson Regional State Administration Gennady Laguta Kryvyy Rih - Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine


In the Kherson region from the direction of Dnipropetrovsk region, the Armed Forces have already liberated more than 20 settlements - the head of the Kherson Regional State Administration Gennady Laguta. Live Universal Awareness Map Liveuamap is a leading independent global news and information...




liveuamap.com







Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532120586708819969



Yes,here are Ukrainian soldiers looting... oh well.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532045189606477824

Reactions: Sad Sad:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532118958681247745

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532120109543829504

Russian column obliterated

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> In the Kherson region from the direction of Dnipropetrovsk region, the Armed Forces have already liberated more than 20 settlements - the head of the Kherson Regional State Administration Gennady Laguta​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the Kherson region from the direction of Dnipropetrovsk region, the Armed Forces have already liberated more than 20 settlements - the head of the Kherson Regional State Administration Gennady Laguta Kryvyy Rih - Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine
> 
> 
> In the Kherson region from the direction of Dnipropetrovsk region, the Armed Forces have already liberated more than 20 settlements - the head of the Kherson Regional State Administration Gennady Laguta. Live Universal Awareness Map Liveuamap is a leading independent global news and information...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> liveuamap.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes,here are Ukrainian soldiers looting... oh well.
> 
> View attachment 850119
> 
> View attachment 850118
> 
> View attachment 850117





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532042627478130694

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Brainsucker

sammuel said:


> From what i read , the M142 HIMARS is much more reliable system than the M270. It is the best system of this sort that US has .Many countries would like very much to buy it.
> 
> ~


To be honest, it is pointless. The power of US military is not depend on HIMARS alone, but their complete military system. Without the support of Tomahawk, air to land, etc that the US has, HIMARS is just another artillery system similar to what Russian have. Maybe better, but not much. Russia still has more alternative to destroy HIMARS even if their Artillery system are less capable than it.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal




----------



## RoadAmerica

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Trump does things if there is any personal gain, otherwise not. That is why he and his supporters are scum.


So the only president not to start a war is scum? 
What do you gauge success on?



zartosht said:


> This war is becoming eerily similar to the eastern front of ww2.
> 
> Russians using massed artillery to pound the living crap out of any resistance areas. Attack on multiple fronts to create cauldrons, stop attacking a front thats putting up strong resistance, and throw everything at the front your making progress in.
> 
> This not only causes massive casualties for the defending side, but they constantly have to shift reserves and logistics all over the place. Which explains the extreme difficulty the ukies are having in supplying their men, and the low morale, desertion and mass surrenders were seeing.
> 
> Meanwhile the west is trying and thinking (exactly the same as germany) to throw some wunderweapon in to (unsucessfully) stop the Russian juggernaut.
> 
> Meanwhile the propaganda channels go into overdrive boasting about tactical success' but ignoring the strategic losses, or even their own tactical losses . In a war any side will have tactical losses and victories, its the strategic picture that counts. That presents a picture to their gullible people that they are "winning".
> 
> Lastly add in the loss of prepared defensive positons that they had 8 years to dig into. 8 years of military experts setting up several defensive layers that ensures and attacking army will be getting fired upon from many differnent angles/flanks.
> 
> all this adds to the snowball effect were seeing. rapid ukie losses, massive/unsustainable ukie casualties, and steady and increasing russian advances.. and lets not even go into the economic front where the west is losing even harder in..... what a disaster the US got these dumb euros into...


🤣 the west is loosing? 
The west hasn’t lost troops while Russia is approaching 30k Kia, wow now that’s winning 🙄


----------



## Brainsucker

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531919766461779969
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531920957593505794
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531919382359822337
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531906825297207296


What is SBU?


----------



## PakFactor

Wergeland said:


> I hope everyone here on PDF who lives in the West and supports and cheer for Russia, by now realize that, if there ever is a full scale War between the West and Russia, and even ICBMs starts flying, Russia wont differentiate between YOU, neutrals and those who are against Russia.
> 
> Its OK that you are against your own countries foreign policies. But to wish that a foreign country likely to want to harm your own country, wins a war, is just plain stupid and what i call self-defeating mentality.



@Huffal bhai and I, will fly back to Pakistan like the Jews made hijrat out of Europe. Plus, none told the West to antagonize Russia by creeping up on her like Hindus do in India in a weird as hell fetish way.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## khansaheeb

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532094953924567041
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532059504732676096


What if China sends arms and sends men to keep Europe on the defensive, it would create a new world order not imaginable decade ago and put the world in turmoil. NATO would collapse with a domino effect causing the 3 nuke powers US, UK and France to be at the cross roads of what to do. Millions of European Refugees could head to Africa for safety.

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## Brainsucker

khansaheeb said:


> What if China sends arms and men to keep Europe on the defensive, it would create a new world order not imaginable decade ago and put the world in turmoil. NATO would collapse with a domino effect causing the 3 nuke powers US, UK and France to be at the cross roads of what to do. Millions of European Refugees could head to Africa for safety.


No. Currently, China has no reason or WILL to do so. Their only concern is the annoying US. Their priority is to cage US influence in order to free from US harassment. But it will be change if the conflict excalated further.



Wergeland said:


> I hope everyone here on PDF who lives in the West and supports and cheer for Russia, by now realize that, if there ever is a full scale War between the West and Russia, and even ICBMs starts flying, Russia wont differentiate between YOU, neutrals and those who are against Russia.
> 
> Its OK that you are against your own countries foreign policies. But to wish that a foreign country likely to want to harm your own country, wins a war, is just plain stupid and what i call self-defeating mentality.


Well then, let's hope that it won't happen.

But I have to argue that you're wrong. Their cheering and support to Russia actually can give another pause to the excalation of the conflict. I can use Indonesia as the example. Our Government condemn the invasion of Ukraine by Russia, but many of our people cheer on them. And look at what happen to us? Russia doesn't force our country to pay the oil with Rubble; unlike Singapore, our neighbor country.

So let your government condemn Russia whatever they want. But when many of your countrymen cheer Russia, Russia will think that your country is actually neutral and forced by American to opposed them. Maybe they will spares your cities when the upcoming nuclear war come to Europe. But if all your people choose to oppose the Russia, and when the Bear is cornered, then ready to take the nuke from them. As they think that you're the enemy that they have to eliminated.

Well, I won't use the term WW3 to a nuclear war between Europe, Russia and United States; as the majority of the world don't involve in it. But I can make sure that it will be the end of the western power in this world.

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## jhungary

Brainsucker said:


> To be honest, it is pointless. The power of US military is not depend on HIMARS alone, but their complete military system. Without the support of Tomahawk, air to land, etc that the US has, HIMARS is just another artillery system similar to what Russian have. Maybe better, but not much. Russia still has more alternative to destroy HIMARS even if their Artillery system are less capable than it.


There aren't many actually, the only other way Russia can destroy it is to use their air power, which is something they are not willing or not able to engage in this conflict (you be the judge on that) HIMARS being shoot and scoop system, which mean you will need Direct Fire to kill it.

Even so, it's not going to be easy, because the CAS need to loiter in the area to look for the HIMARS, once they fired, you only have a general direction that the system had fired from, you would have no idea where it went after, which mean it would expose the fight to AA element. 

Problem is, the present of HIMARS would take away Russian Artillery in the area, because you either leave it in place and get COUNTBAT or got out of range for your own safety. And a Russian Army without Artillery is like a snake without its head.

If HIMARS is introduced in large number (2-300) then this would be enough to push Russia artillery off their range.



Brainsucker said:


> What is SBU?


SBU is Ukrainian State Security Service, like the FSB in Russia or KGB during Soviet Time, or the FBI in the US.

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## Brainsucker

jhungary said:


> There aren't many actually, the only other way Russia can destroy it is to use their air power, which is something they are not willing or not able to engage in this conflict (you be the judge on that) HIMARS being shoot and scoop system, which mean you will need Direct Fire to kill it.
> 
> Problem is, the present of HIMARS would take away Russian Artillery in the area, because you either leave it in place and get COUNTBAT or got out of range for your own safety. And a Russian Army without Artillery is like a snake without its head.
> 
> If HIMARS is introduced in large number (2-300) then this would enough to push Russia artillery off their range.


Thanks, you have the point. But with the current situation in Ukraine, Russia will do their best to target HIMARS first to eliminated the advantage that Ukrainian has. Specially when there are only 4 of them right now.


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## jhungary

Brainsucker said:


> Thanks, you have the point. But with the current situation in Ukraine, Russia will do their best to target HIMARS first to eliminated the advantage that Ukrainian has. Specially when there are only 4 of them right now.


Again, with what?

First of all, would it be advantageous for Russia to try to hunt the system in limited number is an issue here, you need to go all the way out to perform a seek and destroy mission behind enemy line on those system, that is going to take resource out of your main effort. Not to mention this would draw your force in, which is something you don't do in war, because then your move is being dictated, or losing tempo as we call it. It's really dangerous when you are fighting a war.

On the other hand, what could Russia use to kill HIMARS even if they were located? It's too small to be target by Ballistic Missile. And it is too fast for ground vehicle (It's on average 10mph faster than any tank in this world) and it will have longer range than any Russian Artillery, again, the only way you can go is to send plane and fly CAP. which would require your CAP to stay in position to hunt down the HIMARS. That is a good way to get ambushed.

HIMARS at this stage is not a threat to Russian Military in operation, as I said, not until they have enough unit to turn the ties. You would need around 200 of those to make it happen. It's not going to be anywhere near this number at least until mid-summer.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532104635909038080


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## The SC

The most powerful missile attack was launched on the Beskidy Tunnel, which passes through the Carpathian Mountains in the Lviv region. 

The tunnel is more than 2 km long. More than 60% of goods in transit pass through it to Western and Central Europe. The aim of the attack is to disrupt the logistics of weapons supplies from the West


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532117109672755200
Video of a missile attack on the Beskydy tunnel in the Lviv region was filmed 50 km from the tunnel in the Stryi region


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532120101310406658

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532081311741104130

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531903364711211010


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## F-22Raptor

Brainsucker said:


> Thanks, you have the point. But with the current situation in Ukraine, Russia will do their best to target HIMARS first to eliminated the advantage that Ukrainian has. Specially when there are only 4 of them right now.




4 are the initial batch for training. Just like they started small for M777s and Switchblades and then went much larger. 

There’s still a lot of money left in drawdown authority, so I expect HIMARS and M270 to arrive in decent numbers.


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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> 4 are the initial batch for training. Just like they started small for M777s and Switchblades and then went much larger.
> 
> There’s still a lot of money left in drawdown authority, so I expect HIMARS and M270 to arrive in decent numbers.


Well, considering the draw down is 4 billions and another 9 billions for stock replacement. The US can send around 1000 HIMARS just for the drawdown alone (it's 4 millions per system) If I have to guess, and educated guess would be somewhere around 300 with tens of thousands of rocket.

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MAY 31​May 31, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF

*Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, May 31
Kateryna Stepanenko, Karolina Hird, and Frederick W. Kagan
May 31, 5:45pm ET
Moscow’s concentration on seizing Severodonetsk and Donbas generally continues to create vulnerabilities for Russia in Ukraine’s vital Kherson Oblast, where Ukrainian counter-offensives continue. *Kherson is critical terrain because it is the only area of Ukraine in which Russian forces hold ground on the west bank of the Dnipro River. If Russia is able to retain a strong lodgment in Kherson when fighting stops it will be in a very strong position from which to launch a future invasion. If Ukraine regains Kherson, on the other hand, Ukraine will be in a much stronger position to defend itself against future Russian attack. This strategic calculus should in principle lead Russia to allocate sufficient combat power to hold Kherson. But Russian President Vladimir Putin has chosen instead to concentrate all the forces and resources that can be scraped together in a desperate and bloody push to seize areas of eastern Ukraine that will give him largely symbolic gains. Continuing successful Ukrainian counter-offensives in Kherson indicate that Ukraine’s commanders recognize these realities and are taking advantage of the vulnerabilities that Putin’s decisions have created.
*The Ukrainian leadership has apparently wisely avoided matching Putin’s mistaken prioritization. *Kyiv could have committed more reserves and resources to the defense of Severodonetsk, and its failure to do so has drawn criticism.[1] Ukrainian forces are now apparently withdrawing from Severodonetsk rather than fighting to the end—a factor that has allowed the Russians to move into the city relatively rapidly after beginning their full-scale assault.[2] Both the decision to avoid committing more resources to saving Severodonetsk and the decision to withdraw from it were strategically sound, however painful. Ukraine must husband its more limited resources and focus on regaining critical terrain rather than on defending ground whose control will not determine the outcome of the war or the conditions for the renewal of war.
*Sound Ukrainian prioritization of counter-offensive and defensive operations pushed the Russians almost out of artillery range of Kharkiv City and have stopped the Russian advances from Izyum—both of which are more important accomplishments than the defense of Severodonetsk. *Ukraine’s leadership has had to make incredibly difficult choices in this war and has generally made the right ones, at least at the level of strategic prioritization and in the pace, scale, and ambitiousness of its counter-offensives. *That is why Ukraine still has a good chance to stop and then reverse the gains Russia is currently making.
Russian forces are likely attempting to exploit Belarusian equipment reserves to compensate for heavy material losses in Ukraine. *The Ukrainian General Staff reported on May 31 that Belarusian forces are moving tanks and infantry fighting vehicles from storage facilities in Belarus to Russia to replenish combat losses.[3] This report corroborates previous reporting that Russian forces have largely exhausted their own reserves and indicates that the Kremlin is still leveraging its influence over Belarus in order to use Belarusian equipment.
*Some pro-Russian milbloggers began to capture the frustrating realities of limited warfare, which may further intensify societal tensions in Russia. *Pro-Russian political figure and self-proclaimed “People’s Governor of Donetsk Oblast” Pavel Gubarev said that the limited mobilization of Russians for war has divided Russian society into two groups: a small proportion that is involved in the war and the “peacetime Russians” who distance themselves from the war effort and are inconvenienced by foreign sanctions.[4] Gubarev blamed the “peacetime Russians” for failing to start collecting donations for Russian equipment, while criticizing the Kremlin for increasing propaganda about Russian successes during the “special military operation” in Ukraine. Gubarev also blamed the “peacetime Russians” for slowing down rotation rates due to fear of conscription. Guberev noted that mass mobilization could resolve the divide in society but opined that Russian commanders will not order such a mobilization to avoid mass casualties of unprepared conscripts as occurred, he notes, in the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DNR and LNR).
Gubarev is accurately capturing a phenomenon that is normal in a limited war that nevertheless generates high casualties. Resentment by those fighting such a war and their families against those who are untouched by the horrors of combat can grow even in an all-volunteer professional military, as Western countries experienced during the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. It is likely to be even more pronounced in Russia, whose military relies so heavily on conscripts and involuntarily-recalled reservists. This resentment can erode morale and will to fight as well as the propensity to volunteer for military service.
*Russian citizens continued to conduct a series of attacks on Russian military recruitment centers in late May, likely in protest of covert mobilization. *Russian Telegram channel Baza reported that the Russian Federal Security Service arrested a former Moscow artist and opposition figure, Ilya Farber, for Molotov Cocktail attacks on military recruitment centers in Udmurtia in the Urals on May 21.[5] A Russian court had previously sentenced Farber to an eight-year prison sentence for a bribery case. The case gained Farber significant support from Russian opposition leaders.[6] Farber admitted to committing arson in court on May 30. Baza also reported two more attacks on recruitment centers in Simferopol and Tula Oblast on May 28 and May 31, respectively.[7]
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces are increasingly focused on advancing on Slovyansk from the southeast of Izyum and west of Lyman.*
*Russian forces are making gains within and around Severodonetsk.*
*Russian forces are likely hoping to advance on Lysychansk from Toshkivka in order to avoid having to fight across the Severskyi Donets River from Severodonetsk.*
*The Russian grouping in Kherson Oblast is likely feeling the pressure of the limited Ukrainian counteroffensive in northwestern Kherson Oblast, especially as much of the Russian operational focus is currently on the capture of Severodonetsk.*
*

*

*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.
ISW has updated its assessment of the four primary efforts Russian forces are engaged in at this time. We have stopped coverage of Mariupol as a separate effort since the city’s fall. We had added a new section on activities in Russian-occupied areas:*

Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate main effort- Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
Supporting effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting effort 2—Southern axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued to regroup and prepare for renewed offensives southeast of Izyum and made minor, unsuccessful attacks towards Slovyansk on May 31.[8] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces attempted to attack Dovhenke, 20 kilometers south of Izyum, but were unsuccessful.*[9]* Russian forces additionally shelled Ukrainian positions to the southwest and southeast of Izyum and struck Dovhenke, Virnopillya, Husarivka, and Velyka Komyshuvakha in order to prepare for resumed offensives.[10] A Russian Telegram channel claimed that Russian forces are fighting in Bohorodychne, Svyatohirsk, and Schurove, settlements between the southeast of Izyum and northwest of Slovyansk.[11]
Russian forces are additionally pushing westward towards Slovyansk from the Lyman area.[12] A Russian Telegram channel indicated that Russian forces now control the road through Raihorodok and are advancing westward from Raihorodok and eastward from Izyum to drive on Slovyansk.[13] Recent renewed offensives towards Slovyansk likely indicate that Russian forces intend to attempt to take full control of Donetsk Oblast by seizing Slovyansk and Kramatorsk, although their ability to do so is far from clear. 
Russian forces continued ground assaults in and around Severodonetsk on May 31.[14] Russian forces, including Chechen units, now control up to 70% of the city and continue to make gains within the city center.[15] Ukrainian troops are reportedly withdrawing from the center of the city. [16] Head of Luhansk Regional State Administration Serhiy Haidai stated that Russian forces will begin clearing the villages around Severodonetsk in the coming days, likely in order to support the encirclement of the area.[17] The Ukrainian General Staff additionally reported that fighting is on-going in Toshkivka, to the south of Severodonetsk.[18] Russian advances north of Toshkivka are likely intended to support the capture of Lysychansk and would allow Russian forces to advance on Lysychansk from the south as opposed to fighting westward across the Siverskyi Donets River from Severodonetsk. Russian forces failed to advance across the Siverskyi Donets River from Bilohorivka and are likely eager to avoid another costly river crossing.
Russian forces continued ground assaults to the east of Bakhmut on May 31.[19] The Ukrainian General Staff stated that Russian troops are fighting in Zolote, Komyshuvakha, Nyrkove, Berestove, Pokrovske, and Dolomitne, all settlements along the eastern arc of Bakhmut.[20] Russian forces likely intend to keep pushing to gain access to the Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to the northeast of Bakhmut to support their seizure of the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area. Russian forces reportedly made incremental gains near the Donetsk-Zaporizhia Oblast border and took control of Blahodatne and Neskuchne.[21] Russian troops additionally claimed to have made marginal gains north of Donetsk City in the direction of Niu York and reportedly took control of Novoselivka Druha on May 31.[22]








*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces continued to fire on Kharkiv City and its environs and did not make any confirmed advances on May 31.[23] The Ukrainian General Staff noted that the Russian grouping in this area is comprised of elements of the Western Military District, which are focusing on preventing further Ukrainian advances towards the international border.[24] Head of Kharkiv Regional State Administration Oleg Synegubov stated that Russian forces conducted artillery strikes against the Osnovyanskyi and Kyivskyi districts of Kharkiv City, Korotych, Udy, Zolochiv, and Chkalovske.[25]




*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporozhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Ukrainian forces continued a counteroffensive in northwestern Kherson Oblast on May 31 and are pushing Russian forces east of the Inhulets River. Ukrainian forces launched several localized counterattacks west of the Inhulets River in the past few days.[26] Ukraine’s Office of Strategic Communications published images of destroyed Russian artillery equipment in Davydiv Brid, an operationally significant settlement that sits astride the Russian-controlled T2207 highway.[27] The T2207 highway loops around the northeastern Kherson Oblast boundary until it connects with the parallel T0403 highway to Krvyyi Rih and Zaporizhia City in the east. Russian forces have struggled to consolidate control over the eastern segment of the T2207 due to Ukrainian counteroffensives in the area. The Ukrainian counteroffensive on Davydiv Brid could hinder Russia’s ability to support units north of the settlement where they face Ukrainian counteroffensives from further north. The Ukrainian General Staff did not confirm that Ukrainian forces liberated Davydiv Brid, but numerous social media videos and reports suggest that Russian forces may have withdrawn from the settlement on May 31.[28] The Ukrainian General Staff also confirmed that Ukrainian forces liberated another settlement on the eastern segment of the T2207 highway.[29] Russian Telegram channels expressed concern for the possible increase of Ukrainian troops in the area, likely seeing the risk of increasing Ukrainian counteroffensives in the Mykolaiv and Kryvyi Rih directions.[30] The Russian prioritization of the Battle of Severodonetsk and the Donbas offensive operation continues to create vulnerabilities in the critical terrain of Kherson Oblast. 




*Activity in Russian-occupied areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian occupation authorities continued to loot and set conditions for permanent societal control in occupied Ukrainian settlements. Mariupol Mayor’s Adviser Petro Andryushenko reported that Russian forces began to “nationalize” the Port of Mariupol, which included seizing the remaining 34 Ukrainian ships there.[31] Russian forces in Mariupol and Melitopol began accepting documents for Russian citizenship and have aimed a simplified passport procedure specifically at orphans.[32] Russian forces are also continuing mass burials, with geolocated video footage suggesting that they have already buried 22,000 to 45,000 Mariupol residents.[33]
Russian forces continued to face significant challenges in their attempts to consolidate occupation authority on May 31. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported that the Russian-appointed mayor of Melitopol Halyna Danylenko resigned due to partisan activity in the city.[34] The Ukrainian Resistance Center added that Ukrainian entrepreneurs stopped the operation of the Kupyansk Dairy Cannery in northeastern Kharkiv Oblast and are refusing to use Russian banks and currency.[35]

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 1​Jun 1, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF
*
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, June 1
Karolina Hird, Kateryna Stepanenko, and Frederick W. Kagan
June 1, 5:30pm ET*​*The Ukrainian counteroffensive in Kherson Oblast has gotten the attention of Russian forces in the area, and the Russians are scrambling to secure the vital ground line of communication (GLOC) the Ukrainians have threatened. *Ukrainian forces carried out a series of organized counterattacks targeting settlements on the eastern bank of the Ihulets River that are very close to a key highway supporting Russian forces further north. The Russians have responded by destroying the bridges the Ukrainians used in one of those counterattacks and other bridges across the river in an effort to hold their line against anticipated continued Ukrainian counter-offensive operations. Ukrainian forces are likely still close enough to the highway to disrupt its use as a main supply route, potentially undermining the Russians’ ability to hold against Ukrainian counter-offensives from the north.
*Russian milbloggers are expressing growing alarm about the threat of Ukrainian counteroffensives in the areas Russian forces have deprioritized while concentrating on Severodonetsk. *Russian milbloggers have increasingly focused on tracking the rate of Ukrainian counterattacks in late May.[1] Pro-Russian Telegram channel “Dmitriyev” (over 100,000 followers) reported that Ukrainian forces are fully capable of inflicting ”painful and cutting blows” on Russian GLOCs in Kherson, Kharkiv, and Zaporizhia Oblasts by July-August due to lack of adequate Russian defensive forces in the areas.[2] Former Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) officer and milblogger Igor Girkin claimed that Ukrainian forces “will grope for weakness” in Russian defenses in Kherson Oblast.[3] Russian milbloggers are effectively criticizing the Russian military command for endangering Russian territorial gains across other axes by prioritizing the Donbas offensive operation so heavily.
*Russian authorities are likely anticipating Ukrainian partisan pressure in Luhansk Oblast. *The Main Ukrainian Intelligence Directorate (GUR) announced on June 1 the launch of the “Luhansk partisan” project to galvanize resistance to Russian attempts to consolidate control of Luhansk Oblast.[4] A Russian Telegram channel reported that the Russian Internal Ministry is sending a special detachment of its employees on “leave” to the Luhansk People's Republic (LNR), which is a likely attempt to reinforce Russian administrative presence in the LNR in the face of growing internal and partisan discontent.[5] The Ukrainian General Staff additionally stated that Russian forces moved a battalion tactical group (BTG) to Kupyansk, a Russian-controlled city in eastern Kharkiv Oblast along the P07 highway within 30 kilometers of the Luhansk Oblast administrative border.[6] Kupyansk is far from the front lines and in no apparent danger of imminent Ukrainian conventional attack. Taken together, the reported deployment of Internal Ministry employees and a BTG suggest that Russian forces are anticipating partisan resistance against their attempts to gain control of Luhansk Oblast.
*Russian forces continue to undermine the economic viability of areas they are attempting to capture. *Russian forces reportedly hit the “Azot” fertilizer production plant in Severodonetsk on May 31 and caused the dissemination of toxic nitric acid smoke.[7] The production plant was an economically-significant resource for Severodonetsk and the Luhansk region and it would have been prudent for Russian forces to maintain and take control of the plant’s production capabilities. Russian forces similarly destroyed the Azovstal Steel Plant in Mariupol, which had considerable industrial significance for Ukraine and could have been economically exploited by Russian occupiers if they had not destroyed it. While the Azot plant in Severodonetsk was less productive on whole than Azovstal, its destruction is part of the systemic failure of Russian forces to take effective control of the economic and industrial capabilities of occupied territory. Russian forces will likely continue to destroy productive infrastructure and continually undermine the economic benefits they could have hoped to gain from occupied territories.
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces reportedly made incremental advances north of Slovyansk but likely have not yet been able to take control of the road into Slovyansk.*
*Russian forces are attempting to advance towards Lysychansk from the south and west in order to avoid having to fight across the Siverskyi Donets River from Severodonetsk but are having limited successes so far.*
*Russian troops made incremental gains north of Avdiivka.*
*Russian troops reportedly destroyed Ukrainian-built bridges over the Inhulets River near Davydiv Brid in response to Ukrainian counteroffensive pressure.*
*

*
*
We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.
ISW has updated its assessment of the four primary efforts Russian forces are engaged in at this time. We have stopped coverage of Mariupol as a separate effort since the city’s fall. We had added a new section on activities in Russian-occupied areas:*

Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate main effort- Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
Supporting effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting effort 2—Southern axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces attempted to advance south of Izyum but did not make any confirmed advances on June 1. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces conducted unsuccessful attacks on Dibrovne and Dovhenke, both within 20 kilometers south of Izyum.[8] A Russian Telegram channel reported that Russian forces are engaged in positional battles to the southwest of Izyum in Kurulka and Velyka Komyshuvakha.[9]
Russian forces reportedly made advances to the north of Slovyansk and took control of Yarova and Svyatohirsk and are conducting westward offensives from Lyman towards Slovyansk.[10] In order for Russian forces to gain access to Slovyansk via road, however, they would have to cross a bridge across the Severskyi Donets River outside of Raihorodok, and ISW has not yet seen evidence that they have been able to do so, which suggests Russian forces do not yet control the road into Raihorodok-Slovyansk.
Russian forces continued to advance within Severodonetsk on June 1.[11] Head of Luhansk Regional State Administration Serhiy Haidai stated that Russian troops now control upwards of 70% of the city and that Ukrainian troops are retreating from the city center.[12] Russian Telegram channels additionally indicated that Russian forces are fighting in Ustynivka and Myrna Dolyna, which is a likely attempt to advance northwest to Lysychansk without having to cross the Siverskyi Donets River from Severodonetsk.[13] Russian forces are reportedly fighting for control of Bilohorivka (where they attempted a costly and failed crossing of the Severskyi Donets River in early May) and Vrubivka, which would allow them to advance on Lysychansk from the west.[14] Ukrainian forces likely are holding onto Toshkivka, south of Severodonetsk, after reports that Russian forces lost their positions in Toshkivka on May 28.[15] Russian forces have continued ground and artillery attacks against Toshkivka to attempt to regain lost positions.[16]
Russian forces continued ground, air, and artillery attacks against Donetsk Oblast on June 1.[17] Russian troops continued fighting to the east of Bakhmut around Komyshuvakha, Berestove, Nyrkove, Pylypchatyne, and Svitlodarsk in order to gain access to highways to the northeast of Bakhmut, which would facilitate attempts to encircle the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area.[18] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that the Russian grouping around Avidiivka is holding its positions in the area, and the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) claimed that DNR troops encircled Ukrainian troops in Avdiivka.[19] Russian forces reportedly cut the Donetsk City-Avdiivka-Konstantinivka highway. Russian forces have been close enough to the highway for some time that Ukrainian forces have probably not been relying on it as a main supply route. If the Russians could secure it from its base (rather than simply cutting it), however, they could be able to use it advance northward towards Konstantinivka, Kramatorsk, and Slovyansk.[20] Russian forces are fighting north of Avdiivka in the vicinity of Krasnohorivka and on the southern outskirts of Niu York.[21]







*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces conducted air and artillery strikes against Kharkiv City and its environs on June 1. Russian forces shelled the Kyivskyi district of Kharkiv City, Ruski Tyshky, Zolochiv, Derhachi, and Tsyrkuny and conducted airstrikes against Vesele and Ternova.[22]




*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporozhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Ukrainian forces continued to threaten Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) in northeastern Kherson Oblast, despite Russian forces restricting further Ukrainian counteroffensives on May 31 and June 1. The Ukrainian Southern Operational Command reported that Russian forces destroyed bridges over the Inhulets River in Davydiv Brid, an operationally significant settlement located on the Russian-controlled T2205 highway.[23] Russian forces likely destroyed bridges in an effort to hinder Ukrainian efforts to reach Davydiv Brid on May 31.[24] Ukrainian forces can likely still disrupt Russian forces' ability to use the highway as a main supply route if they remain just on the other side of the river, which is less than a kilometer from the road and therefore within range of many tactical systems. Disruption of the T2205 as a primary GLOC could undermine Russian defenses against Ukrainian counteroffensives on the northern Kherson-Mykolaiv Oblast border. Russian forces have also destroyed another bridge just north of Davydiv Brid and intensified artillery fire in northern Kherson, likely in anticipation of continued Ukrainian counterattacks.[25] Russian forces also unsuccessfully attempted to reconnoiter by battle Ukrainian positions on the Mykolaiv-Kherson Oblast on June 1.[26]
Russian forces continued to fortify positions across southern Ukraine in an effort to establish permanent control over occupied territories. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces did not conduct any offensive operations in Zaporizhia Oblast, instead executing engineering work for the second lines of defense.[27] The Ukrainian General Staff added that Russian forces transferred likely one T-62 tank battalion and one motorized rifle battalion to Vasylivka, approximately 50km south of Zaporizhia City. ISW has previously reported on an increase in Russian military presence and fortifications east of the Russian-occupied Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant (NPP).[28]
The Ukrainian Southern Operational Command said that Russian forces are transferring anti-aircraft missile systems, electronic warfare equipment, and multiple rocket launchers to Snake Island off Romanian coast.[29]




*Activity in Russian-occupied areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Some Russian milbloggers continue to question Russian policy, this time regarding the status of occupied territories. The Head of Russian State Duma International Committee Leonid Slutskiy claimed that Russia may annex Kherson Oblast and the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DNR and LNR) as soon as July.[30] A small-scale Russian Telegram Channel MoscowCalling ridiculed Slutskiy’s announcement, noting that Russian forces have not secured the land corridor to Crimea via Zaporizhia Oblast.[31] MoscowCalling also noted that without control over Zaporizhia Oblast, Russian forces will not have the capacity to support commercial and administrative routes via the Kerch Strait bridge. Governor of St. Petersburg Alexander Belov and Russian-appointed Head of Mariupol Konstantin Ivanchenko signed a cooperation agreement between two cities on June 1, but it is unclear whether the Kremlin has decided to fully annex Mariupol.[32]

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532137166196903936


TruthSeeker said:


> RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MAY 31​May 31, 2022 - Press ISW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Download the PDF
> 
> *Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, May 31
> Kateryna Stepanenko, Karolina Hird, and Frederick W. Kagan
> May 31, 5:45pm ET
> Moscow’s concentration on seizing Severodonetsk and Donbas generally continues to create vulnerabilities for Russia in Ukraine’s vital Kherson Oblast, where Ukrainian counter-offensives continue. *Kherson is critical terrain because it is the only area of Ukraine in which Russian forces hold ground on the west bank of the Dnipro River. If Russia is able to retain a strong lodgment in Kherson when fighting stops it will be in a very strong position from which to launch a future invasion. If Ukraine regains Kherson, on the other hand, Ukraine will be in a much stronger position to defend itself against future Russian attack. This strategic calculus should in principle lead Russia to allocate sufficient combat power to hold Kherson. But Russian President Vladimir Putin has chosen instead to concentrate all the forces and resources that can be scraped together in a desperate and bloody push to seize areas of eastern Ukraine that will give him largely symbolic gains. Continuing successful Ukrainian counter-offensives in Kherson indicate that Ukraine’s commanders recognize these realities and are taking advantage of the vulnerabilities that Putin’s decisions have created.
> *The Ukrainian leadership has apparently wisely avoided matching Putin’s mistaken prioritization. *Kyiv could have committed more reserves and resources to the defense of Severodonetsk, and its failure to do so has drawn criticism.[1] Ukrainian forces are now apparently withdrawing from Severodonetsk rather than fighting to the end—a factor that has allowed the Russians to move into the city relatively rapidly after beginning their full-scale assault.[2] Both the decision to avoid committing more resources to saving Severodonetsk and the decision to withdraw from it were strategically sound, however painful. Ukraine must husband its more limited resources and focus on regaining critical terrain rather than on defending ground whose control will not determine the outcome of the war or the conditions for the renewal of war.
> *Sound Ukrainian prioritization of counter-offensive and defensive operations pushed the Russians almost out of artillery range of Kharkiv City and have stopped the Russian advances from Izyum—both of which are more important accomplishments than the defense of Severodonetsk. *Ukraine’s leadership has had to make incredibly difficult choices in this war and has generally made the right ones, at least at the level of strategic prioritization and in the pace, scale, and ambitiousness of its counter-offensives. *That is why Ukraine still has a good chance to stop and then reverse the gains Russia is currently making.
> Russian forces are likely attempting to exploit Belarusian equipment reserves to compensate for heavy material losses in Ukraine. *The Ukrainian General Staff reported on May 31 that Belarusian forces are moving tanks and infantry fighting vehicles from storage facilities in Belarus to Russia to replenish combat losses.[3] This report corroborates previous reporting that Russian forces have largely exhausted their own reserves and indicates that the Kremlin is still leveraging its influence over Belarus in order to use Belarusian equipment.
> *Some pro-Russian milbloggers began to capture the frustrating realities of limited warfare, which may further intensify societal tensions in Russia. *Pro-Russian political figure and self-proclaimed “People’s Governor of Donetsk Oblast” Pavel Gubarev said that the limited mobilization of Russians for war has divided Russian society into two groups: a small proportion that is involved in the war and the “peacetime Russians” who distance themselves from the war effort and are inconvenienced by foreign sanctions.[4] Gubarev blamed the “peacetime Russians” for failing to start collecting donations for Russian equipment, while criticizing the Kremlin for increasing propaganda about Russian successes during the “special military operation” in Ukraine. Gubarev also blamed the “peacetime Russians” for slowing down rotation rates due to fear of conscription. Guberev noted that mass mobilization could resolve the divide in society but opined that Russian commanders will not order such a mobilization to avoid mass casualties of unprepared conscripts as occurred, he notes, in the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DNR and LNR).
> Gubarev is accurately capturing a phenomenon that is normal in a limited war that nevertheless generates high casualties. Resentment by those fighting such a war and their families against those who are untouched by the horrors of combat can grow even in an all-volunteer professional military, as Western countries experienced during the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. It is likely to be even more pronounced in Russia, whose military relies so heavily on conscripts and involuntarily-recalled reservists. This resentment can erode morale and will to fight as well as the propensity to volunteer for military service.
> *Russian citizens continued to conduct a series of attacks on Russian military recruitment centers in late May, likely in protest of covert mobilization. *Russian Telegram channel Baza reported that the Russian Federal Security Service arrested a former Moscow artist and opposition figure, Ilya Farber, for Molotov Cocktail attacks on military recruitment centers in Udmurtia in the Urals on May 21.[5] A Russian court had previously sentenced Farber to an eight-year prison sentence for a bribery case. The case gained Farber significant support from Russian opposition leaders.[6] Farber admitted to committing arson in court on May 30. Baza also reported two more attacks on recruitment centers in Simferopol and Tula Oblast on May 28 and May 31, respectively.[7]
> *Key Takeaways*
> 
> *Russian forces are increasingly focused on advancing on Slovyansk from the southeast of Izyum and west of Lyman.*
> *Russian forces are making gains within and around Severodonetsk.*
> *Russian forces are likely hoping to advance on Lysychansk from Toshkivka in order to avoid having to fight across the Severskyi Donets River from Severodonetsk.*
> *The Russian grouping in Kherson Oblast is likely feeling the pressure of the limited Ukrainian counteroffensive in northwestern Kherson Oblast, especially as much of the Russian operational focus is currently on the capture of Severodonetsk.*
> *
> 
> *
> 
> *We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.
> ISW has updated its assessment of the four primary efforts Russian forces are engaged in at this time. We have stopped coverage of Mariupol as a separate effort since the city’s fall. We had added a new section on activities in Russian-occupied areas:*
> 
> Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
> Subordinate main effort- Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
> Supporting effort 1—Kharkiv City;
> Supporting effort 2—Southern axis;
> Activities in Russian-occupied areas
> *Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
> Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
> Russian forces continued to regroup and prepare for renewed offensives southeast of Izyum and made minor, unsuccessful attacks towards Slovyansk on May 31.[8] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces attempted to attack Dovhenke, 20 kilometers south of Izyum, but were unsuccessful.*[9]* Russian forces additionally shelled Ukrainian positions to the southwest and southeast of Izyum and struck Dovhenke, Virnopillya, Husarivka, and Velyka Komyshuvakha in order to prepare for resumed offensives.[10] A Russian Telegram channel claimed that Russian forces are fighting in Bohorodychne, Svyatohirsk, and Schurove, settlements between the southeast of Izyum and northwest of Slovyansk.[11]
> Russian forces are additionally pushing westward towards Slovyansk from the Lyman area.[12] A Russian Telegram channel indicated that Russian forces now control the road through Raihorodok and are advancing westward from Raihorodok and eastward from Izyum to drive on Slovyansk.[13] Recent renewed offensives towards Slovyansk likely indicate that Russian forces intend to attempt to take full control of Donetsk Oblast by seizing Slovyansk and Kramatorsk, although their ability to do so is far from clear.
> Russian forces continued ground assaults in and around Severodonetsk on May 31.[14] Russian forces, including Chechen units, now control up to 70% of the city and continue to make gains within the city center.[15] Ukrainian troops are reportedly withdrawing from the center of the city. [16] Head of Luhansk Regional State Administration Serhiy Haidai stated that Russian forces will begin clearing the villages around Severodonetsk in the coming days, likely in order to support the encirclement of the area.[17] The Ukrainian General Staff additionally reported that fighting is on-going in Toshkivka, to the south of Severodonetsk.[18] Russian advances north of Toshkivka are likely intended to support the capture of Lysychansk and would allow Russian forces to advance on Lysychansk from the south as opposed to fighting westward across the Siverskyi Donets River from Severodonetsk. Russian forces failed to advance across the Siverskyi Donets River from Bilohorivka and are likely eager to avoid another costly river crossing.
> Russian forces continued ground assaults to the east of Bakhmut on May 31.[19] The Ukrainian General Staff stated that Russian troops are fighting in Zolote, Komyshuvakha, Nyrkove, Berestove, Pokrovske, and Dolomitne, all settlements along the eastern arc of Bakhmut.[20] Russian forces likely intend to keep pushing to gain access to the Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to the northeast of Bakhmut to support their seizure of the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area. Russian forces reportedly made incremental gains near the Donetsk-Zaporizhia Oblast border and took control of Blahodatne and Neskuchne.[21] Russian troops additionally claimed to have made marginal gains north of Donetsk City in the direction of Niu York and reportedly took control of Novoselivka Druha on May 31.[22]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
> Russian forces continued to fire on Kharkiv City and its environs and did not make any confirmed advances on May 31.[23] The Ukrainian General Staff noted that the Russian grouping in this area is comprised of elements of the Western Military District, which are focusing on preventing further Ukrainian advances towards the international border.[24] Head of Kharkiv Regional State Administration Oleg Synegubov stated that Russian forces conducted artillery strikes against the Osnovyanskyi and Kyivskyi districts of Kharkiv City, Korotych, Udy, Zolochiv, and Chkalovske.[25]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporozhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
> Ukrainian forces continued a counteroffensive in northwestern Kherson Oblast on May 31 and are pushing Russian forces east of the Inhulets River. Ukrainian forces launched several localized counterattacks west of the Inhulets River in the past few days.[26] Ukraine’s Office of Strategic Communications published images of destroyed Russian artillery equipment in Davydiv Brid, an operationally significant settlement that sits astride the Russian-controlled T2207 highway.[27] The T2207 highway loops around the northeastern Kherson Oblast boundary until it connects with the parallel T0403 highway to Krvyyi Rih and Zaporizhia City in the east. Russian forces have struggled to consolidate control over the eastern segment of the T2207 due to Ukrainian counteroffensives in the area. The Ukrainian counteroffensive on Davydiv Brid could hinder Russia’s ability to support units north of the settlement where they face Ukrainian counteroffensives from further north. The Ukrainian General Staff did not confirm that Ukrainian forces liberated Davydiv Brid, but numerous social media videos and reports suggest that Russian forces may have withdrawn from the settlement on May 31.[28] The Ukrainian General Staff also confirmed that Ukrainian forces liberated another settlement on the eastern segment of the T2207 highway.[29] Russian Telegram channels expressed concern for the possible increase of Ukrainian troops in the area, likely seeing the risk of increasing Ukrainian counteroffensives in the Mykolaiv and Kryvyi Rih directions.[30] The Russian prioritization of the Battle of Severodonetsk and the Donbas offensive operation continues to create vulnerabilities in the critical terrain of Kherson Oblast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Activity in Russian-occupied areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
> Russian occupation authorities continued to loot and set conditions for permanent societal control in occupied Ukrainian settlements. Mariupol Mayor’s Adviser Petro Andryushenko reported that Russian forces began to “nationalize” the Port of Mariupol, which included seizing the remaining 34 Ukrainian ships there.[31] Russian forces in Mariupol and Melitopol began accepting documents for Russian citizenship and have aimed a simplified passport procedure specifically at orphans.[32] Russian forces are also continuing mass burials, with geolocated video footage suggesting that they have already buried 22,000 to 45,000 Mariupol residents.[33]
> Russian forces continued to face significant challenges in their attempts to consolidate occupation authority on May 31. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported that the Russian-appointed mayor of Melitopol Halyna Danylenko resigned due to partisan activity in the city.[34] The Ukrainian Resistance Center added that Ukrainian entrepreneurs stopped the operation of the Kupyansk Dairy Cannery in northeastern Kharkiv Oblast and are refusing to use Russian banks and currency.[35]
> 
> RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 1​Jun 1, 2022 - Press ISW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Download the PDF
> 
> *Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, June 1
> Karolina Hird, Kateryna Stepanenko, and Frederick W. Kagan
> June 1, 5:30pm ET*​*The Ukrainian counteroffensive in Kherson Oblast has gotten the attention of Russian forces in the area, and the Russians are scrambling to secure the vital ground line of communication (GLOC) the Ukrainians have threatened. *Ukrainian forces carried out a series of organized counterattacks targeting settlements on the eastern bank of the Ihulets River that are very close to a key highway supporting Russian forces further north. The Russians have responded by destroying the bridges the Ukrainians used in one of those counterattacks and other bridges across the river in an effort to hold their line against anticipated continued Ukrainian counter-offensive operations. Ukrainian forces are likely still close enough to the highway to disrupt its use as a main supply route, potentially undermining the Russians’ ability to hold against Ukrainian counter-offensives from the north.
> *Russian milbloggers are expressing growing alarm about the threat of Ukrainian counteroffensives in the areas Russian forces have deprioritized while concentrating on Severodonetsk. *Russian milbloggers have increasingly focused on tracking the rate of Ukrainian counterattacks in late May.[1] Pro-Russian Telegram channel “Dmitriyev” (over 100,000 followers) reported that Ukrainian forces are fully capable of inflicting ”painful and cutting blows” on Russian GLOCs in Kherson, Kharkiv, and Zaporizhia Oblasts by July-August due to lack of adequate Russian defensive forces in the areas.[2] Former Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) officer and milblogger Igor Girkin claimed that Ukrainian forces “will grope for weakness” in Russian defenses in Kherson Oblast.[3] Russian milbloggers are effectively criticizing the Russian military command for endangering Russian territorial gains across other axes by prioritizing the Donbas offensive operation so heavily.
> *Russian authorities are likely anticipating Ukrainian partisan pressure in Luhansk Oblast. *The Main Ukrainian Intelligence Directorate (GUR) announced on June 1 the launch of the “Luhansk partisan” project to galvanize resistance to Russian attempts to consolidate control of Luhansk Oblast.[4] A Russian Telegram channel reported that the Russian Internal Ministry is sending a special detachment of its employees on “leave” to the Luhansk People's Republic (LNR), which is a likely attempt to reinforce Russian administrative presence in the LNR in the face of growing internal and partisan discontent.[5] The Ukrainian General Staff additionally stated that Russian forces moved a battalion tactical group (BTG) to Kupyansk, a Russian-controlled city in eastern Kharkiv Oblast along the P07 highway within 30 kilometers of the Luhansk Oblast administrative border.[6] Kupyansk is far from the front lines and in no apparent danger of imminent Ukrainian conventional attack. Taken together, the reported deployment of Internal Ministry employees and a BTG suggest that Russian forces are anticipating partisan resistance against their attempts to gain control of Luhansk Oblast.
> *Russian forces continue to undermine the economic viability of areas they are attempting to capture. *Russian forces reportedly hit the “Azot” fertilizer production plant in Severodonetsk on May 31 and caused the dissemination of toxic nitric acid smoke.[7] The production plant was an economically-significant resource for Severodonetsk and the Luhansk region and it would have been prudent for Russian forces to maintain and take control of the plant’s production capabilities. Russian forces similarly destroyed the Azovstal Steel Plant in Mariupol, which had considerable industrial significance for Ukraine and could have been economically exploited by Russian occupiers if they had not destroyed it. While the Azot plant in Severodonetsk was less productive on whole than Azovstal, its destruction is part of the systemic failure of Russian forces to take effective control of the economic and industrial capabilities of occupied territory. Russian forces will likely continue to destroy productive infrastructure and continually undermine the economic benefits they could have hoped to gain from occupied territories.
> *Key Takeaways*
> 
> *Russian forces reportedly made incremental advances north of Slovyansk but likely have not yet been able to take control of the road into Slovyansk.*
> *Russian forces are attempting to advance towards Lysychansk from the south and west in order to avoid having to fight across the Siverskyi Donets River from Severodonetsk but are having limited successes so far.*
> *Russian troops made incremental gains north of Avdiivka.*
> *Russian troops reportedly destroyed Ukrainian-built bridges over the Inhulets River near Davydiv Brid in response to Ukrainian counteroffensive pressure.*
> *
> 
> *
> 
> *We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.
> ISW has updated its assessment of the four primary efforts Russian forces are engaged in at this time. We have stopped coverage of Mariupol as a separate effort since the city’s fall. We had added a new section on activities in Russian-occupied areas:*
> 
> Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
> Subordinate main effort- Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
> Supporting effort 1—Kharkiv City;
> Supporting effort 2—Southern axis;
> Activities in Russian-occupied areas
> *Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
> Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
> Russian forces attempted to advance south of Izyum but did not make any confirmed advances on June 1. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces conducted unsuccessful attacks on Dibrovne and Dovhenke, both within 20 kilometers south of Izyum.[8] A Russian Telegram channel reported that Russian forces are engaged in positional battles to the southwest of Izyum in Kurulka and Velyka Komyshuvakha.[9]
> Russian forces reportedly made advances to the north of Slovyansk and took control of Yarova and Svyatohirsk and are conducting westward offensives from Lyman towards Slovyansk.[10] In order for Russian forces to gain access to Slovyansk via road, however, they would have to cross a bridge across the Severskyi Donets River outside of Raihorodok, and ISW has not yet seen evidence that they have been able to do so, which suggests Russian forces do not yet control the road into Raihorodok-Slovyansk.
> Russian forces continued to advance within Severodonetsk on June 1.[11] Head of Luhansk Regional State Administration Serhiy Haidai stated that Russian troops now control upwards of 70% of the city and that Ukrainian troops are retreating from the city center.[12] Russian Telegram channels additionally indicated that Russian forces are fighting in Ustynivka and Myrna Dolyna, which is a likely attempt to advance northwest to Lysychansk without having to cross the Siverskyi Donets River from Severodonetsk.[13] Russian forces are reportedly fighting for control of Bilohorivka (where they attempted a costly and failed crossing of the Severskyi Donets River in early May) and Vrubivka, which would allow them to advance on Lysychansk from the west.[14] Ukrainian forces likely are holding onto Toshkivka, south of Severodonetsk, after reports that Russian forces lost their positions in Toshkivka on May 28.[15] Russian forces have continued ground and artillery attacks against Toshkivka to attempt to regain lost positions.[16]
> Russian forces continued ground, air, and artillery attacks against Donetsk Oblast on June 1.[17] Russian troops continued fighting to the east of Bakhmut around Komyshuvakha, Berestove, Nyrkove, Pylypchatyne, and Svitlodarsk in order to gain access to highways to the northeast of Bakhmut, which would facilitate attempts to encircle the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area.[18] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that the Russian grouping around Avidiivka is holding its positions in the area, and the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) claimed that DNR troops encircled Ukrainian troops in Avdiivka.[19] Russian forces reportedly cut the Donetsk City-Avdiivka-Konstantinivka highway. Russian forces have been close enough to the highway for some time that Ukrainian forces have probably not been relying on it as a main supply route. If the Russians could secure it from its base (rather than simply cutting it), however, they could be able to use it advance northward towards Konstantinivka, Kramatorsk, and Slovyansk.[20] Russian forces are fighting north of Avdiivka in the vicinity of Krasnohorivka and on the southern outskirts of Niu York.[21]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
> Russian forces conducted air and artillery strikes against Kharkiv City and its environs on June 1. Russian forces shelled the Kyivskyi district of Kharkiv City, Ruski Tyshky, Zolochiv, Derhachi, and Tsyrkuny and conducted airstrikes against Vesele and Ternova.[22]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporozhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
> Ukrainian forces continued to threaten Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) in northeastern Kherson Oblast, despite Russian forces restricting further Ukrainian counteroffensives on May 31 and June 1. The Ukrainian Southern Operational Command reported that Russian forces destroyed bridges over the Inhulets River in Davydiv Brid, an operationally significant settlement located on the Russian-controlled T2205 highway.[23] Russian forces likely destroyed bridges in an effort to hinder Ukrainian efforts to reach Davydiv Brid on May 31.[24] Ukrainian forces can likely still disrupt Russian forces' ability to use the highway as a main supply route if they remain just on the other side of the river, which is less than a kilometer from the road and therefore within range of many tactical systems. Disruption of the T2205 as a primary GLOC could undermine Russian defenses against Ukrainian counteroffensives on the northern Kherson-Mykolaiv Oblast border. Russian forces have also destroyed another bridge just north of Davydiv Brid and intensified artillery fire in northern Kherson, likely in anticipation of continued Ukrainian counterattacks.[25] Russian forces also unsuccessfully attempted to reconnoiter by battle Ukrainian positions on the Mykolaiv-Kherson Oblast on June 1.[26]
> Russian forces continued to fortify positions across southern Ukraine in an effort to establish permanent control over occupied territories. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces did not conduct any offensive operations in Zaporizhia Oblast, instead executing engineering work for the second lines of defense.[27] The Ukrainian General Staff added that Russian forces transferred likely one T-62 tank battalion and one motorized rifle battalion to Vasylivka, approximately 50km south of Zaporizhia City. ISW has previously reported on an increase in Russian military presence and fortifications east of the Russian-occupied Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant (NPP).[28]
> The Ukrainian Southern Operational Command said that Russian forces are transferring anti-aircraft missile systems, electronic warfare equipment, and multiple rocket launchers to Snake Island off Romanian coast.[29]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Activity in Russian-occupied areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
> Some Russian milbloggers continue to question Russian policy, this time regarding the status of occupied territories. The Head of Russian State Duma International Committee Leonid Slutskiy claimed that Russia may annex Kherson Oblast and the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DNR and LNR) as soon as July.[30] A small-scale Russian Telegram Channel MoscowCalling ridiculed Slutskiy’s announcement, noting that Russian forces have not secured the land corridor to Crimea via Zaporizhia Oblast.[31] MoscowCalling also noted that without control over Zaporizhia Oblast, Russian forces will not have the capacity to support commercial and administrative routes via the Kerch Strait bridge. Governor of St. Petersburg Alexander Belov and Russian-appointed Head of Mariupol Konstantin Ivanchenko signed a cooperation agreement between two cities on June 1, but it is unclear whether the Kremlin has decided to fully annex Mariupol.[32]



This is all you need to know about ISW 👇

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## Beny Karachun

ckf said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531082722210418689


Fake info

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## Gomig-21

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531913092505952258
> Russian Deputy Foreign Minister: Arms shipments to Ukraine increase the risk of "direct confrontation" between Russia and the United States
> @AsharqNewsBrk
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531898895651024897



L-O-L! OMG, these right wing nut freaks are beyond delusional on a stratospheric level!



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532086222499233794
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532088054814580738



"Sell them"? Why not just deduct the cost from the $40 BILLION we just sent them lmao! This war has been out of control for a while and only getting worst. This crap needs to end soon so there's a semblance of a chance to return to normalcy.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532051858981797889

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532084080614989824


Beny Karachun said:


> Fake info




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529041792007655424

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527574668403671041

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1 | Wow Wow:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

They tie him up and put film around his neck so that he drowns when his body can no longer resist fatigue. (But they are not Nazis) Zelensky's Ukraine.


https://twitter.com/BonzoPiriz/status/1531700582536253440


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532079606412587009

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532065666714308608

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532064593878876160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531846911640076288

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532187062677516290

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1 | Wow Wow:
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## SecularNationalist

Foinikas said:


> First of all,you're not the right person to judge.
> 
> 
> Second,if you don't think that this is barbaric for a supposedly "progressive European society",then you have to think about how psychotic and sick it is.
> 
> I'll bet that if it was the Russians who sold Ukrainian skulls,you would have gone crazy talking about how "barbaric" they are as a people.
> 
> 
> It's a hobby if you play war on your PC,it's not a hobby when you go out and fight. Please,stop saying nonsense.
> 
> You could have said that the Western armies are better prepared and armed. Which of course isn't always the case,but you would have made a point.
> 
> 
> Let me show you something:
> 
> View attachment 850078
> 
> 
> War is bad on both sides. And this is a war between two brother peoples.
> 
> Stop feeling happy about it.


Stop arguing with that frustrated and defeated kid. 
That's the typical behavior of someone who is butthurt and defeated.

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## ckf

Brainsucker said:


> To be honest, it is pointless. The power of US military is not depend on HIMARS alone, but their complete military system. Without the support of Tomahawk, air to land, etc that the US has, HIMARS is just another artillery system similar to what Russian have. Maybe better, but not much. Russia still has more alternative to destroy HIMARS even if their Artillery system are less capable than it.


I think you're selling US military capabilities short. I wouldn't be surprised that there are countless US military personnel in Poland operating drones, awacs and collecting satellite reconnaissance to Ukraine. Even though Russia can still fight an effective grinding ground campaign, Russian tactics will be less effective over time as more and more NATO equipment enter the arena. Unless Russia speed up deployment and show better tactical response, Russians will bleed needlessly just like Afghanistan. US also has similar predicament as cost escalates from bankrolling Ukraine government. US got out of Afghanistan precisely for the same reasons. Lastly, war has unpredictable consequences, we will see how this plays out in the next few month or years.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532035479218044928

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## The SC

Biden said the West is looking at the possibility of buying Russian oil at below market price rather than refusing to import it.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532094898358321152
The West has no way to prevent Russia from selling oil to third countries - Lithuanian President


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532094898639450112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532054902414798848

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532099865253134336


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## PakFactor

Gomig-21 said:


> L-O-L! OMG, these right wing nut freaks are beyond delusional on a stratospheric level!
> 
> 
> 
> "Sell them"? Why not just deduct the cost from the $40 BILLION we just sent them lmao! This war has been out of control for a while and only getting worst. This crap needs to end soon so there's a semblance of a chance to return to normalcy.



No need to stop them, let them continue on that continent as the Chinese here say, “you stop them they’ll turn the guns on us and you (Mid East & Co.)”. Only a fool would stop them, the war is on Western door steps and you want to relieve pressure.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532187915073294339

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532187916260220930

The UK is sending M270 MLRS

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## DF41

TruthSeeker said:


> RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MAY 31​May 31, 2022 - Press ISW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Download the PDF
> 
> *Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, May 31
> Kateryna Stepanenko, Karolina Hird, and Frederick W. Kagan
> May 31, 5:45pm ET
> Moscow’s concentration on seizing Severodonetsk and Donbas generally continues to create vulnerabilities for Russia in Ukraine’s vital Kherson Oblast, where Ukrainian counter-offensives continue. *Kherson is critical terrain because it is the only area of Ukraine in which Russian forces hold ground on the west bank of the Dnipro River. If Russia is able to retain a strong lodgment in Kherson when fighting stops it will be in a very strong position from which to launch a future invasion. If Ukraine regains Kherson, on the other hand, Ukraine will be in a much stronger position to defend itself against future Russian attack. This strategic calculus should in principle lead Russia to allocate sufficient combat power to hold Kherson. But Russian President Vladimir Putin has chosen instead to concentrate all the forces and resources that can be scraped together in a desperate and bloody push to seize areas of eastern Ukraine that will give him largely symbolic gains. Continuing successful Ukrainian counter-offensives in Kherson indicate that Ukraine’s commanders recognize these realities and are taking advantage of the vulnerabilities that Putin’s decisions have created.
> *The Ukrainian leadership has apparently wisely avoided matching Putin’s mistaken prioritization. *Kyiv could have committed more reserves and resources to the defense of Severodonetsk, and its failure to do so has drawn criticism.[1] Ukrainian forces are now apparently withdrawing from Severodonetsk rather than fighting to the end—a factor that has allowed the Russians to move into the city relatively rapidly after beginning their full-scale assault.[2] Both the decision to avoid committing more resources to saving Severodonetsk and the decision to withdraw from it were strategically sound, however painful. Ukraine must husband its more limited resources and focus on regaining critical terrain rather than on defending ground whose control will not determine the outcome of the war or the conditions for the renewal of war.
> *Sound Ukrainian prioritization of counter-offensive and defensive operations pushed the Russians almost out of artillery range of Kharkiv City and have stopped the Russian advances from Izyum—both of which are more important accomplishments than the defense of Severodonetsk. *Ukraine’s leadership has had to make incredibly difficult choices in this war and has generally made the right ones, at least at the level of strategic prioritization and in the pace, scale, and ambitiousness of its counter-offensives. *That is why Ukraine still has a good chance to stop and then reverse the gains Russia is currently making.
> Russian forces are likely attempting to exploit Belarusian equipment reserves to compensate for heavy material losses in Ukraine. *The Ukrainian General Staff reported on May 31 that Belarusian forces are moving tanks and infantry fighting vehicles from storage facilities in Belarus to Russia to replenish combat losses.[3] This report corroborates previous reporting that Russian forces have largely exhausted their own reserves and indicates that the Kremlin is still leveraging its influence over Belarus in order to use Belarusian equipment.
> *Some pro-Russian milbloggers began to capture the frustrating realities of limited warfare, which may further intensify societal tensions in Russia. *Pro-Russian political figure and self-proclaimed “People’s Governor of Donetsk Oblast” Pavel Gubarev said that the limited mobilization of Russians for war has divided Russian society into two groups: a small proportion that is involved in the war and the “peacetime Russians” who distance themselves from the war effort and are inconvenienced by foreign sanctions.[4] Gubarev blamed the “peacetime Russians” for failing to start collecting donations for Russian equipment, while criticizing the Kremlin for increasing propaganda about Russian successes during the “special military operation” in Ukraine. Gubarev also blamed the “peacetime Russians” for slowing down rotation rates due to fear of conscription. Guberev noted that mass mobilization could resolve the divide in society but opined that Russian commanders will not order such a mobilization to avoid mass casualties of unprepared conscripts as occurred, he notes, in the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DNR and LNR).
> Gubarev is accurately capturing a phenomenon that is normal in a limited war that nevertheless generates high casualties. Resentment by those fighting such a war and their families against those who are untouched by the horrors of combat can grow even in an all-volunteer professional military, as Western countries experienced during the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. It is likely to be even more pronounced in Russia, whose military relies so heavily on conscripts and involuntarily-recalled reservists. This resentment can erode morale and will to fight as well as the propensity to volunteer for military service.
> *Russian citizens continued to conduct a series of attacks on Russian military recruitment centers in late May, likely in protest of covert mobilization. *Russian Telegram channel Baza reported that the Russian Federal Security Service arrested a former Moscow artist and opposition figure, Ilya Farber, for Molotov Cocktail attacks on military recruitment centers in Udmurtia in the Urals on May 21.[5] A Russian court had previously sentenced Farber to an eight-year prison sentence for a bribery case. The case gained Farber significant support from Russian opposition leaders.[6] Farber admitted to committing arson in court on May 30. Baza also reported two more attacks on recruitment centers in Simferopol and Tula Oblast on May 28 and May 31, respectively.[7]
> *Key Takeaways*
> 
> *Russian forces are increasingly focused on advancing on Slovyansk from the southeast of Izyum and west of Lyman.*
> *Russian forces are making gains within and around Severodonetsk.*
> *Russian forces are likely hoping to advance on Lysychansk from Toshkivka in order to avoid having to fight across the Severskyi Donets River from Severodonetsk.*
> *The Russian grouping in Kherson Oblast is likely feeling the pressure of the limited Ukrainian counteroffensive in northwestern Kherson Oblast, especially as much of the Russian operational focus is currently on the capture of Severodonetsk.*
> *
> 
> *
> 
> *We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.
> ISW has updated its assessment of the four primary efforts Russian forces are engaged in at this time. We have stopped coverage of Mariupol as a separate effort since the city’s fall. We had added a new section on activities in Russian-occupied areas:*
> 
> Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
> Subordinate main effort- Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
> Supporting effort 1—Kharkiv City;
> Supporting effort 2—Southern axis;
> Activities in Russian-occupied areas
> *Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
> Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
> Russian forces continued to regroup and prepare for renewed offensives southeast of Izyum and made minor, unsuccessful attacks towards Slovyansk on May 31.[8] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces attempted to attack Dovhenke, 20 kilometers south of Izyum, but were unsuccessful.*[9]* Russian forces additionally shelled Ukrainian positions to the southwest and southeast of Izyum and struck Dovhenke, Virnopillya, Husarivka, and Velyka Komyshuvakha in order to prepare for resumed offensives.[10] A Russian Telegram channel claimed that Russian forces are fighting in Bohorodychne, Svyatohirsk, and Schurove, settlements between the southeast of Izyum and northwest of Slovyansk.[11]
> Russian forces are additionally pushing westward towards Slovyansk from the Lyman area.[12] A Russian Telegram channel indicated that Russian forces now control the road through Raihorodok and are advancing westward from Raihorodok and eastward from Izyum to drive on Slovyansk.[13] Recent renewed offensives towards Slovyansk likely indicate that Russian forces intend to attempt to take full control of Donetsk Oblast by seizing Slovyansk and Kramatorsk, although their ability to do so is far from clear.
> Russian forces continued ground assaults in and around Severodonetsk on May 31.[14] Russian forces, including Chechen units, now control up to 70% of the city and continue to make gains within the city center.[15] Ukrainian troops are reportedly withdrawing from the center of the city. [16] Head of Luhansk Regional State Administration Serhiy Haidai stated that Russian forces will begin clearing the villages around Severodonetsk in the coming days, likely in order to support the encirclement of the area.[17] The Ukrainian General Staff additionally reported that fighting is on-going in Toshkivka, to the south of Severodonetsk.[18] Russian advances north of Toshkivka are likely intended to support the capture of Lysychansk and would allow Russian forces to advance on Lysychansk from the south as opposed to fighting westward across the Siverskyi Donets River from Severodonetsk. Russian forces failed to advance across the Siverskyi Donets River from Bilohorivka and are likely eager to avoid another costly river crossing.
> Russian forces continued ground assaults to the east of Bakhmut on May 31.[19] The Ukrainian General Staff stated that Russian troops are fighting in Zolote, Komyshuvakha, Nyrkove, Berestove, Pokrovske, and Dolomitne, all settlements along the eastern arc of Bakhmut.[20] Russian forces likely intend to keep pushing to gain access to the Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to the northeast of Bakhmut to support their seizure of the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area. Russian forces reportedly made incremental gains near the Donetsk-Zaporizhia Oblast border and took control of Blahodatne and Neskuchne.[21] Russian troops additionally claimed to have made marginal gains north of Donetsk City in the direction of Niu York and reportedly took control of Novoselivka Druha on May 31.[22]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
> Russian forces continued to fire on Kharkiv City and its environs and did not make any confirmed advances on May 31.[23] The Ukrainian General Staff noted that the Russian grouping in this area is comprised of elements of the Western Military District, which are focusing on preventing further Ukrainian advances towards the international border.[24] Head of Kharkiv Regional State Administration Oleg Synegubov stated that Russian forces conducted artillery strikes against the Osnovyanskyi and Kyivskyi districts of Kharkiv City, Korotych, Udy, Zolochiv, and Chkalovske.[25]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporozhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
> Ukrainian forces continued a counteroffensive in northwestern Kherson Oblast on May 31 and are pushing Russian forces east of the Inhulets River. Ukrainian forces launched several localized counterattacks west of the Inhulets River in the past few days.[26] Ukraine’s Office of Strategic Communications published images of destroyed Russian artillery equipment in Davydiv Brid, an operationally significant settlement that sits astride the Russian-controlled T2207 highway.[27] The T2207 highway loops around the northeastern Kherson Oblast boundary until it connects with the parallel T0403 highway to Krvyyi Rih and Zaporizhia City in the east. Russian forces have struggled to consolidate control over the eastern segment of the T2207 due to Ukrainian counteroffensives in the area. The Ukrainian counteroffensive on Davydiv Brid could hinder Russia’s ability to support units north of the settlement where they face Ukrainian counteroffensives from further north. The Ukrainian General Staff did not confirm that Ukrainian forces liberated Davydiv Brid, but numerous social media videos and reports suggest that Russian forces may have withdrawn from the settlement on May 31.[28] The Ukrainian General Staff also confirmed that Ukrainian forces liberated another settlement on the eastern segment of the T2207 highway.[29] Russian Telegram channels expressed concern for the possible increase of Ukrainian troops in the area, likely seeing the risk of increasing Ukrainian counteroffensives in the Mykolaiv and Kryvyi Rih directions.[30] The Russian prioritization of the Battle of Severodonetsk and the Donbas offensive operation continues to create vulnerabilities in the critical terrain of Kherson Oblast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Activity in Russian-occupied areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
> Russian occupation authorities continued to loot and set conditions for permanent societal control in occupied Ukrainian settlements. Mariupol Mayor’s Adviser Petro Andryushenko reported that Russian forces began to “nationalize” the Port of Mariupol, which included seizing the remaining 34 Ukrainian ships there.[31] Russian forces in Mariupol and Melitopol began accepting documents for Russian citizenship and have aimed a simplified passport procedure specifically at orphans.[32] Russian forces are also continuing mass burials, with geolocated video footage suggesting that they have already buried 22,000 to 45,000 Mariupol residents.[33]
> Russian forces continued to face significant challenges in their attempts to consolidate occupation authority on May 31. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported that the Russian-appointed mayor of Melitopol Halyna Danylenko resigned due to partisan activity in the city.[34] The Ukrainian Resistance Center added that Ukrainian entrepreneurs stopped the operation of the Kupyansk Dairy Cannery in northeastern Kharkiv Oblast and are refusing to use Russian banks and currency.[35]
> 
> RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 1​Jun 1, 2022 - Press ISW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Download the PDF
> 
> *Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, June 1
> Karolina Hird, Kateryna Stepanenko, and Frederick W. Kagan
> June 1, 5:30pm ET*​*The Ukrainian counteroffensive in Kherson Oblast has gotten the attention of Russian forces in the area, and the Russians are scrambling to secure the vital ground line of communication (GLOC) the Ukrainians have threatened. *Ukrainian forces carried out a series of organized counterattacks targeting settlements on the eastern bank of the Ihulets River that are very close to a key highway supporting Russian forces further north. The Russians have responded by destroying the bridges the Ukrainians used in one of those counterattacks and other bridges across the river in an effort to hold their line against anticipated continued Ukrainian counter-offensive operations. Ukrainian forces are likely still close enough to the highway to disrupt its use as a main supply route, potentially undermining the Russians’ ability to hold against Ukrainian counter-offensives from the north.
> *Russian milbloggers are expressing growing alarm about the threat of Ukrainian counteroffensives in the areas Russian forces have deprioritized while concentrating on Severodonetsk. *Russian milbloggers have increasingly focused on tracking the rate of Ukrainian counterattacks in late May.[1] Pro-Russian Telegram channel “Dmitriyev” (over 100,000 followers) reported that Ukrainian forces are fully capable of inflicting ”painful and cutting blows” on Russian GLOCs in Kherson, Kharkiv, and Zaporizhia Oblasts by July-August due to lack of adequate Russian defensive forces in the areas.[2] Former Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) officer and milblogger Igor Girkin claimed that Ukrainian forces “will grope for weakness” in Russian defenses in Kherson Oblast.[3] Russian milbloggers are effectively criticizing the Russian military command for endangering Russian territorial gains across other axes by prioritizing the Donbas offensive operation so heavily.
> *Russian authorities are likely anticipating Ukrainian partisan pressure in Luhansk Oblast. *The Main Ukrainian Intelligence Directorate (GUR) announced on June 1 the launch of the “Luhansk partisan” project to galvanize resistance to Russian attempts to consolidate control of Luhansk Oblast.[4] A Russian Telegram channel reported that the Russian Internal Ministry is sending a special detachment of its employees on “leave” to the Luhansk People's Republic (LNR), which is a likely attempt to reinforce Russian administrative presence in the LNR in the face of growing internal and partisan discontent.[5] The Ukrainian General Staff additionally stated that Russian forces moved a battalion tactical group (BTG) to Kupyansk, a Russian-controlled city in eastern Kharkiv Oblast along the P07 highway within 30 kilometers of the Luhansk Oblast administrative border.[6] Kupyansk is far from the front lines and in no apparent danger of imminent Ukrainian conventional attack. Taken together, the reported deployment of Internal Ministry employees and a BTG suggest that Russian forces are anticipating partisan resistance against their attempts to gain control of Luhansk Oblast.
> *Russian forces continue to undermine the economic viability of areas they are attempting to capture. *Russian forces reportedly hit the “Azot” fertilizer production plant in Severodonetsk on May 31 and caused the dissemination of toxic nitric acid smoke.[7] The production plant was an economically-significant resource for Severodonetsk and the Luhansk region and it would have been prudent for Russian forces to maintain and take control of the plant’s production capabilities. Russian forces similarly destroyed the Azovstal Steel Plant in Mariupol, which had considerable industrial significance for Ukraine and could have been economically exploited by Russian occupiers if they had not destroyed it. While the Azot plant in Severodonetsk was less productive on whole than Azovstal, its destruction is part of the systemic failure of Russian forces to take effective control of the economic and industrial capabilities of occupied territory. Russian forces will likely continue to destroy productive infrastructure and continually undermine the economic benefits they could have hoped to gain from occupied territories.
> *Key Takeaways*
> 
> *Russian forces reportedly made incremental advances north of Slovyansk but likely have not yet been able to take control of the road into Slovyansk.*
> *Russian forces are attempting to advance towards Lysychansk from the south and west in order to avoid having to fight across the Siverskyi Donets River from Severodonetsk but are having limited successes so far.*
> *Russian troops made incremental gains north of Avdiivka.*
> *Russian troops reportedly destroyed Ukrainian-built bridges over the Inhulets River near Davydiv Brid in response to Ukrainian counteroffensive pressure.*
> *
> 
> *
> 
> *We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.
> ISW has updated its assessment of the four primary efforts Russian forces are engaged in at this time. We have stopped coverage of Mariupol as a separate effort since the city’s fall. We had added a new section on activities in Russian-occupied areas:*
> 
> Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
> Subordinate main effort- Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
> Supporting effort 1—Kharkiv City;
> Supporting effort 2—Southern axis;
> Activities in Russian-occupied areas
> *Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
> Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
> Russian forces attempted to advance south of Izyum but did not make any confirmed advances on June 1. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces conducted unsuccessful attacks on Dibrovne and Dovhenke, both within 20 kilometers south of Izyum.[8] A Russian Telegram channel reported that Russian forces are engaged in positional battles to the southwest of Izyum in Kurulka and Velyka Komyshuvakha.[9]
> Russian forces reportedly made advances to the north of Slovyansk and took control of Yarova and Svyatohirsk and are conducting westward offensives from Lyman towards Slovyansk.[10] In order for Russian forces to gain access to Slovyansk via road, however, they would have to cross a bridge across the Severskyi Donets River outside of Raihorodok, and ISW has not yet seen evidence that they have been able to do so, which suggests Russian forces do not yet control the road into Raihorodok-Slovyansk.
> Russian forces continued to advance within Severodonetsk on June 1.[11] Head of Luhansk Regional State Administration Serhiy Haidai stated that Russian troops now control upwards of 70% of the city and that Ukrainian troops are retreating from the city center.[12] Russian Telegram channels additionally indicated that Russian forces are fighting in Ustynivka and Myrna Dolyna, which is a likely attempt to advance northwest to Lysychansk without having to cross the Siverskyi Donets River from Severodonetsk.[13] Russian forces are reportedly fighting for control of Bilohorivka (where they attempted a costly and failed crossing of the Severskyi Donets River in early May) and Vrubivka, which would allow them to advance on Lysychansk from the west.[14] Ukrainian forces likely are holding onto Toshkivka, south of Severodonetsk, after reports that Russian forces lost their positions in Toshkivka on May 28.[15] Russian forces have continued ground and artillery attacks against Toshkivka to attempt to regain lost positions.[16]
> Russian forces continued ground, air, and artillery attacks against Donetsk Oblast on June 1.[17] Russian troops continued fighting to the east of Bakhmut around Komyshuvakha, Berestove, Nyrkove, Pylypchatyne, and Svitlodarsk in order to gain access to highways to the northeast of Bakhmut, which would facilitate attempts to encircle the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area.[18] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that the Russian grouping around Avidiivka is holding its positions in the area, and the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) claimed that DNR troops encircled Ukrainian troops in Avdiivka.[19] Russian forces reportedly cut the Donetsk City-Avdiivka-Konstantinivka highway. Russian forces have been close enough to the highway for some time that Ukrainian forces have probably not been relying on it as a main supply route. If the Russians could secure it from its base (rather than simply cutting it), however, they could be able to use it advance northward towards Konstantinivka, Kramatorsk, and Slovyansk.[20] Russian forces are fighting north of Avdiivka in the vicinity of Krasnohorivka and on the southern outskirts of Niu York.[21]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
> Russian forces conducted air and artillery strikes against Kharkiv City and its environs on June 1. Russian forces shelled the Kyivskyi district of Kharkiv City, Ruski Tyshky, Zolochiv, Derhachi, and Tsyrkuny and conducted airstrikes against Vesele and Ternova.[22]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporozhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
> Ukrainian forces continued to threaten Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) in northeastern Kherson Oblast, despite Russian forces restricting further Ukrainian counteroffensives on May 31 and June 1. The Ukrainian Southern Operational Command reported that Russian forces destroyed bridges over the Inhulets River in Davydiv Brid, an operationally significant settlement located on the Russian-controlled T2205 highway.[23] Russian forces likely destroyed bridges in an effort to hinder Ukrainian efforts to reach Davydiv Brid on May 31.[24] Ukrainian forces can likely still disrupt Russian forces' ability to use the highway as a main supply route if they remain just on the other side of the river, which is less than a kilometer from the road and therefore within range of many tactical systems. Disruption of the T2205 as a primary GLOC could undermine Russian defenses against Ukrainian counteroffensives on the northern Kherson-Mykolaiv Oblast border. Russian forces have also destroyed another bridge just north of Davydiv Brid and intensified artillery fire in northern Kherson, likely in anticipation of continued Ukrainian counterattacks.[25] Russian forces also unsuccessfully attempted to reconnoiter by battle Ukrainian positions on the Mykolaiv-Kherson Oblast on June 1.[26]
> Russian forces continued to fortify positions across southern Ukraine in an effort to establish permanent control over occupied territories. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces did not conduct any offensive operations in Zaporizhia Oblast, instead executing engineering work for the second lines of defense.[27] The Ukrainian General Staff added that Russian forces transferred likely one T-62 tank battalion and one motorized rifle battalion to Vasylivka, approximately 50km south of Zaporizhia City. ISW has previously reported on an increase in Russian military presence and fortifications east of the Russian-occupied Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant (NPP).[28]
> The Ukrainian Southern Operational Command said that Russian forces are transferring anti-aircraft missile systems, electronic warfare equipment, and multiple rocket launchers to Snake Island off Romanian coast.[29]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Activity in Russian-occupied areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
> Some Russian milbloggers continue to question Russian policy, this time regarding the status of occupied territories. The Head of Russian State Duma International Committee Leonid Slutskiy claimed that Russia may annex Kherson Oblast and the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DNR and LNR) as soon as July.[30] A small-scale Russian Telegram Channel MoscowCalling ridiculed Slutskiy’s announcement, noting that Russian forces have not secured the land corridor to Crimea via Zaporizhia Oblast.[31] MoscowCalling also noted that without control over Zaporizhia Oblast, Russian forces will not have the capacity to support commercial and administrative routes via the Kerch Strait bridge. Governor of St. Petersburg Alexander Belov and Russian-appointed Head of Mariupol Konstantin Ivanchenko signed a cooperation agreement between two cities on June 1, but it is unclear whether the Kremlin has decided to fully annex Mariupol.[32]



This crap from NED approved spin doctors best flushed down the toilet. 

Last time I be seeing this.
As that NED approved minion going to where sun and moon not shine and cockroaches roam to sing kumbayah with those there and cockroaches will join in the refrain





ckf said:


> I think you're selling US military capabilities short.




USA military capabilities AWESOME. 

The reason why USA won resounding victories in Panama and Grenada and Nicaragua.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

RoadAmerica said:


> So the only president not to start a war is scum?
> What do you gauge success on?


Trump ordered a cruise missile attack on Syria, and a drone attack on an Iranian general, and Iran replied with a missile attack on a US base.
The US President cannot declare war, but Trump certainly ordered acts of war.
He tried to start wars, and failed…


----------



## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532051858981797889
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532084080614989824
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529041792007655424
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527574668403671041


Wow! schoolkids play football in Mariupol.
Putin must be very proud. Without Russian tanks such thing is not possible.
I think he is more happy in this:
Oil, gas, food prices hit high prices thanks to war campaign and hundreds thousands deaths he is now drowned in cash.


----------



## jhungary

Zelensky shuts down interviewer’s claim Trump would have stopped Russian invasion



Zelenskyy burn Trump...........

That's a long mile from this

Reactions: Like Like:
 1


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## Oldman1

zartosht said:


> Who exactly is "they"? Official Russian military spokesmen? Or random person, on random tv debate in Russia, having specific lines of a conversation taken out of context, and used to push a certain narrative?


Random? You didn't even check to see who he is. LOL! Former veteran turned senator of the Russian Parliament. Nothing was taken out of context, he is explaining why the Ukrainians are still fighting. First they said it was against NATO, now they say its Ukrainians with Russian mindset.



jhungary said:


> Zelensky shuts down interviewer’s claim Trump would have stopped Russian invasion
> 
> 
> 
> Zelenskyy burn Trump...........
> 
> That's a long mile from this
> 
> View attachment 850174


Trump would call Putin a genius many times if Putin invaded Poland and Estonia or even Switzerland.


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## Primus

PakFactor said:


> @Huffal bhai and I, will fly back to Pakistan like the Jews made hijrat out of Europe. Plus, none told the West to antagonize Russia by creeping up on her like Hindus do in India in a weird as hell fetish way.


💀💀💀💀

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Oldman1

Brainsucker said:


> Thanks, you have the point. But with the current situation in Ukraine, Russia will do their best to target HIMARS first to eliminated the advantage that Ukrainian has. Specially when there are only 4 of them right now.


Russians already have a hard time preventing the delivery of the M777s and other artillery units provided by U.S. and other countries, not to mention destroying them. HIMARs and even the M270s are hard to find and counter since they can shoot and scoot quickly within a minute or so. And the reloading process takes few minutes at most. With the drone tech, it makes it easy to find targets and transfer the coordinates quickly and it just fires and leave quickly.


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## Primus

PakFactor said:


> @Huffal bhai and I, will fly back to Pakistan like the Jews made hijrat out of Europe. Plus, none told the West to antagonize Russia by creeping up on her like Hindus do in India in a weird as hell fetish way.


💀💀💀

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


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## Oldman1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531775643184242688
Sounds BS and the Ukrainians shouldn't fall for this where I have made a point that the Russians will easily stop rest and recover and launch another invasion again. They can use whatever ceasefire violation or false flag and blame it on the Ukrainians and launch again.



Viet said:


> Germany will deliver the most modern anti aircraft missile system and anti artillery system to Ukraine.
> The systems will protect Ukraine cities against Russia aerial and artillery assaults.


I'll believe it when I see it.



jhungary said:


> Himars: what are the advanced rockets US is sending Ukraine?
> 
> 
> High Mobility Artillery Rocket System can hit Russian targets up to 50 miles (80km) away, helping to ‘even the playing field’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like M142 HIMARS is coming, not M270 MLRS.
> 
> This make sense, HIMARS is air deployable, and this could get to the battlefield quicker.
> 
> Also, at 80km range, HIMARS have longer ranger and more accurate than M270 and any Russian MLRS or Artillery. This will give the Ukrainian some edge.


The U.S. should send the M270s by ship. Take few weeks, but they be there. Hoping for M198s and M109s if possible. This is pretty much Artillery Wars now.


----------



## jamahir

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531976406736982016



The son must take his knowledge from this PDF thread  :





Video Gamers report in!
 

What games are you currently playing? What games do you want to play? What systems do you own? Currently playing : League of Legends (PC) Minecraft (PC) Medal of Honor (PS3) Civ 5(PC) Want to play: Hawx series (Ps3/PC) Gran Turismo 5 (or was it 6?) (Ps3) Killzone 3 (Ps3) Fallout NV(Ps3/PC)...



defence.pk







The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531920544408412160



Rain of fire !



Apollon said:


> I said it before, crazy how you betray your own people.



And I have ask you before, how can you support Zelensky who has banned all opposition parties especially because many of them happen to be leftist and has put at least one into house arrest and has gotten one of his mediators with Russia executed ? Isn't this what NATO accuses its enemies of ? Yet NATO is openly supporting dictator Zelensky with hypocrisy.

You constantly accuse @Foinikas of betrayal and what not, but just because he rejects the anti-human and irrational line taken by NATO governments. You have created a fascist majoritarian dictatorship in Europe just like we have in India where any dissenter is automatically labeled "anti-national" and told "Go to Pakistan !"  You say Europe is not like Russia, that Europe is civilized and democratic yet you are not allowing Foinikas to have his right of thought especially when he is making much sense. Is this right of you ?



Apollon said:


> As for russian skulls, i dont see any problem with that.



What's next ? You going to Sweden and role playing a Viking warrior from a 1000 years ago ?



Apollon said:


> I told you to not add me on blocked users contents. Thanks



So first you told me that about @Hassan Al-Somal and now about The SC. Firstly, how do I know who all are on your ignore list and secondly, why are you ignoring them when they are taking the trouble of finding and presenting the daily and broad truths of the Ukraine war which NATO media is not admitting and in fact going stubbornly against ? Are you rejecting that Nazis are not being found, even from Azovstal ? That the "democracy-protector" Ukraine military is not committing war crimes and just foulest crimes really ? A group of them holding down a Russian soldier in the night and he moaning in terrible pain, with them holding him down more as he moans more, maybe they just burning him with a swastika or cutting him up I don't know. That vid posted here was deleted by mods. The same brave Ukrainian Territorial Defense Forces shooting up cars of civilians as they flee cities. You were making multiple posts including to me about how the a Russian tank fired upon a Ukrainian civilian cyclist. That firing would have been a honest mistake but you just ignore the real crimes by the fanatics among the Ukrainian military. So many crimes. And what happened to Bucha is what I asked you multiple times ? NATO made a big lie just like it has done since 1949, besmirched Russia and now has moved to other lies. What are you doing, man ?

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## Oldman1

Russia's Lavrov warns US rocket supplies could widen Ukraine conflict


Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has said that there are risks of involving third countries in the war with Ukraine if Kiev received US multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS).




www.business-standard.com





Russia's Lavrov warns US rocket supplies could widen Ukraine conflict​Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has said that there are risks of involving third countries in the war with Ukraine if Kiev received US multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS).​
Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has said that there are risks of involving third countries in the war with Ukraine if Kiev received US multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS).

"Such risks, of course, exist. What the Kiev regime demands, and unequivocally, economically... from its Western patrons. Firstly, it goes beyond decency and diplomatic communication, and secondly, it is a direct provocation to involve the West in hostilities," Lavrov said, as per Ria Novosti.

According to him, these risks are "understood by conscious Western politicians", Ukrayinska Pravda reported.

"Not everyone, frankly, in the European Union, especially in its northern part. There are politicians who are ready to resort to this madness in order to satisfy their ambitions.

"But serious countries in the European Union, of course, are well aware of the unacceptability of such scenarios, and we recently heard signs of reasonable estimates from Washington," Lavrov said.

The US is "adding fuel to the fire" by supplying weapons to Kiev, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said on Wednesday in response to US President Joe Biden's decision to provide more advanced missile systems to Ukraine, CNN reported.

The Ukrainian authorities have long asked the United States to supply high-tech, medium-range rocket systems. Biden said Tuesday the US is providing Ukraine "more advanced rocket systems and munitions" as its war with Russia grinds on.

"Such supplies do not contribute to the Ukrainian leadership's willingness to resume peace negotiations," Peskov said, CNN reported.

Peskov also added the Kremlin does not trust Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's words that Kyiv would not use multiple launch rocket systems to attack the Russian territory if they receive them from the US.


----------



## Viet

Oldman1 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531775643184242688
> Sounds BS and the Ukrainians shouldn't fall for this where I have made a point that the Russians will easily stop rest and recover and launch another invasion again. They can use whatever ceasefire violation or false flag and blame it on the Ukrainians and launch again.
> 
> 
> I'll believe it when I see it.
> 
> 
> The U.S. should send the M270s by ship. Take few weeks, but they be there. Hoping for M198s and M109s if possible. This is pretty much Artillery Wars now.


That will come. Scholz has given the promise before the parliament. There is no way he can back down. Ukraine will receive the same air defense system that Germany possess.


----------



## Oldman1

Viet said:


> That will come. Scholz has given the promise before the parliament. There is no way he can back down. Ukraine will receive the same air defense system that Germany possess.


Not unless it has Swiss components in it, then it will be vetoed or denied.


----------



## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531775643184242688
> Sounds BS and the Ukrainians shouldn't fall for this where I have made a point that the Russians will easily stop rest and recover and launch another invasion again. They can use whatever ceasefire violation or false flag and blame it on the Ukrainians and launch again.
> 
> 
> I'll believe it when I see it.
> 
> 
> The U.S. should send the M270s by ship. Take few weeks, but they be there. Hoping for M198s and M109s if possible. This is pretty much Artillery Wars now.


UK is sending M270

But yes, US would most likely be sending the 270s the Marine retired a couple of years back to Ukraine soon. Most likely US will replace UK 270 stock with HIMARS. The US may also load some 270 system on C-5 Galaxy, IIRC that was the only aircraft that can carry them (Maybe C-17 can carry them too? I don't know). 

On the other hand M198 is most likely already on the way and Dane are sending 109s (think it's an A3) to Ukraine as we speak.

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## Viet

Oldman1 said:


> Not unless it has Swiss components in it, then it will be vetoed or denied.


The Swiss vetoes direct delivery of ammunitions. I don’t think they will veto electronics delivery to Germany.


----------



## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Not unless it has Swiss components in it, then it will be vetoed or denied.


IRIS-T Missile does not have Swiss Parts.

It have Germany, Norway, Italy, Sweden, Canadian and Greece part.

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## Oldman1

Viet said:


> The Swiss vetoes direct delivery of ammunitions. I don’t think they will veto electronics delivery to Germany.


What about heavy weaponry?


----------



## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> UK is sending M270
> 
> But yes, US would most likely be sending the 270s the Marine retired a couple of years back to Ukraine soon. Most likely US will replace UK 270 stock with HIMARS. The US may also load some 270 system on C-5 Galaxy, IIRC that was the only aircraft that can carry them (Maybe C-17 can carry them too? I don't know).
> 
> On the other hand M198 is most likely already on the way and Dane are sending 109s (think it's an A3) to Ukraine as we speak.


Wow! A3s! Those are really old. I was expecting more modern variant that I have seen the other countries have improved on like this pic with longer gun and some minor stuff.





Was expecting at least A5s. It would make sense that they send them quickly since the Ukrainians probably don't want to wait for weeks on ship and transport by land. C-17s should be able to carry them since they are known to transport Abrams tanks. But good to hear that they are sending the M198s as well as well as the HIMARs and M270s. Pretty slow decision but better late than never. Funny we thought ahead of this, but I'm certain others in the Pentagon thought of this as well long before. Also Italy has a bunch of them still. They sold many to Pakistan but not all of them. Wiki says they have more than 200 still and their main artillery is the PZH2000 so the rest of M109s are in storage.


----------



## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Wow! A3s! Those are really old. I was expecting more modern variant that I have seen the other countries have improved on like this pic with longer gun and some minor stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was expecting at least A5s. It would make sense that they send them quickly since the Ukrainians probably don't want to wait for weeks on ship and transport by land. C-17s should be able to carry them since they are known to transport Abrams tanks. But good to hear that they are sending the M198s as well as well as the HIMARs and M270s. Pretty slow decision but better late than never. Funny we thought ahead of this, but I'm certain others in the Pentagon thought of this as well long before. Also Italy has a bunch of them still. They sold many to Pakistan but not all of them. Wiki says they have more than 200 still and their main artillery is the PZH2000 so the rest of M109s are in storage.


Funny enough, nobody in the area have A6/A7.....

US still uses A6 and A7. Then It just Saudi who have some A6 around. Portugal and Spain both have A5 but IIRC those are really small number. Dane A2 were in storage as they are upgrading to A5 themselves.

C-17 probably can, seeing M270 only weight around 27 tons. M198 are most definitely going over there, as they are cheap and inexpensive but still provide good fire support, probably more unit than M777 too. but the deployment rate is going to be slow.

as for we are thinking ahead, we both know this is going to end up like this, remember back then when they got the Brits sign on to provide artillery and I told you the possibility of HIMARS?  in fact I just went back and check all my old post and the sitrep I wrote, I am more or less 70% in the money, which suggested one thing. the Ukrainian is fighting this war as if we are fighting this war (because whatever I suggest I put myself in that situation, which I was brought up by US tactics.)

Which mean they are going to be more mobile and try to outflank the Russian when they have to take that operational pause eventually. Don't quote me on that, as this is a gut feeling, not supported by any Intel I have my eyes on, but I think it is more or less coming after Russia took Sieverodonetsk.

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## sammuel

jhungary said:


> Zelensky shuts down interviewer’s claim Trump would have stopped Russian invasion
> 
> 
> 
> Zelenskyy burn Trump...........
> 
> That's a long mile from this
> 
> View attachment 850174






PakFactor said:


> I loved Trump he was an orange but he was our orange --





What trump would have done is anybody guess.

The only thing sure about trump was , that he was unpredictable and irresponsible.

Although some argue that exactly because of that , Putin would not have risked invading at all , if trump was in power.

On the other hand , when it comes to long standing military support and money investment , Biden has proven himself as trust worthy ally. Would Trump also stand with Ukraine in the same way Biden did ?

Not at all sure about that :

Trump: US should fund safe schools before Ukraine​








Trump: US should fund safe schools before Ukraine


Mr Trump rejects calls for gun control, saying Americans must be allowed to defend themselves from "evil".



www.bbc.com





~


----------



## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Funny enough, nobody in the area have A6/A7.....
> 
> US still uses A6 and A7. Then It just Saudi who have some A6 around. Portugal and Spain both have A5 but IIRC those are really small number. Dane A2 were in storage as they are upgrading to A5 themselves.
> 
> C-17 probably can, seeing M270 only weight around 27 tons. M198 are most definitely going over there, as they are cheap and inexpensive but still provide good fire support, probably more unit than M777 too. but the deployment rate is going to be slow.
> 
> as for we are thinking ahead, we both know this is going to end up like this, remember back then when they got the Brits sign on to provide artillery and I told you the possibility of HIMARS?  in fact I just went back and check all my old post and the sitrep I wrote, I am more or less 70% in the money, which suggested one thing. the Ukrainian is fighting this war as if we are fighting this war (because whatever I suggest I put myself in that situation, which I was brought up by US tactics.)
> 
> Which mean they are going to be more mobile and try to outflank the Russian when they have to take that operational pause eventually. Don't quote me on that, as this is a gut feeling, not supported by any Intel I have my eyes on, but I think it is more or less coming after Russia took Sieverodonetsk.


Indeed you mentioned the HIMARS long before. I suggested it would be M270s instead since the HIMARS were newer and something the Marines and Army want to keep for themselves but since then they sent in M777s which are also modern weeks ago, I figure the U.S. government decided to also give something more modern like the HIMARS you mentioned. After the Russians taking Severodonestsk and operational pause or even suggest a ceasefire crap attempt, the Ukrainians should definitely hit them hard with more artillery to prevent them from taking a breathe or break. Even launch counter attacks.


----------



## jhungary

sammuel said:


> What trump would have done is anybody guess.
> 
> The only thing sure about trump was , that he was unpredictable and irresponsible.
> 
> Although some argue that exactly because of that , Putin would not have risked invading at all , if trump was in power.
> 
> On the other hand , when it comes to long standing military support and money investment , Biden has proven himself as trust worthy ally. Would Trump also stand with Ukraine in the same way Biden has ?
> 
> Not at all sure about that :
> 
> Trump: US should fund safe schools before Ukraine​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump: US should fund safe schools before Ukraine
> 
> 
> Mr Trump rejects calls for gun control, saying Americans must be allowed to defend themselves from "evil".
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


As far as I can tell, Putin wanted this a long time ago, probably ever since 2014. 

First of all, trying to pull off a 200,000 troop invasion is not something you can just do out of the bat, well, in hindsight, maybe it is because it was wrongly handled all the way around by the Russian, but from Troop Training, to route planning, to sussing out enemy deposition and prepare the resource you need for war is not going to be a few months operation. It take years to save up the equipment the Russian uses in this war. 

Which tell me 2 things. 

1.) Whether or not Trump is president, Putin will go ahead one way or the other. This is not about America, this is about Ukraine, and what Putin think about Ukraine. 

2.) If what my prediction is the case, then this is probably the biggest mistake Putin made, which buy into the ill health angle because if he is really dying, he wouldn't care. 

There are two major turning point as to what Putin had done wrong. He should have waited another 4 years before going ahead with the invasion, Trump maybe back, or he can more or less install yet another pro-Russian leader in Ukraine. Much like how they do with Georgia nowadays. Another thing he did wrong is he invaded when Hungary is in a election. Vicktor Orban cannot be seen as pro-Russia during Election, and he would have pass whatever the EU aimed at Russia. If Putin had invaded after Victkor Orban election in April, he may be able to use Orban to withstand some EU sanction. 

All in all, I don't think who's in power would deter Putin from invading Ukraine, as I said, that is probably one major mistake so he is still going ahead even tho he know this would, and did, backfire on Russia badly, if the need to invade even over that two strategic mistake, then whether or not Trump is in office is probably have no sway on Putin.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532143813514387458

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532117662280605697


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Indeed you mentioned the HIMARS long before. I suggested it would be M270s instead since the HIMARS were newer and something the Marines and Army want to keep for themselves but since then they sent in M777s which are also modern weeks ago, I figure the U.S. government decided to also give something more modern like the HIMARS you mentioned. After the Russians taking Severodonestsk and operational pause or even suggest a ceasefire crap attempt, the Ukrainians should definitely hit them hard with more artillery to prevent them from taking a breathe or break. Even launch counter attacks.


It's easy to see HIMARS is needed, they are quick, easy to load, and like triple 7, easy to pack and travel. The key to this war is always the artillery, because the Artillery game is the Russian playing, which mean you will at some point need to one up the Russian Artillery, at the very beginning, it's still quite hard to see whether they need system like 777/HIMARS/M270 or SAM like Patriot, but then a month pass and you probably can see artillery is more important than SAM and Russian fighter is not making any headway into Ukraine. 

I have no doubt in my mind the Ukrainian is going to push after Russia took Sieverodonestsk, they have completely withdraw from it and only leave a token unit behind to hinder the Russian pace taking the city, which mean something is up and they needed that troop for something, what I can see is, Russia probably will try to go after Lysychansk after Sieverodonetsk, Ukrainian will try to blunt their river crossing effort and then launch a counter attack, that is what I would do if I was in that situation. It's hard to defend with the river behind you, it's a lot easier to defend when the river is between you and your enemy, especially so when your enemy is the attacker, and they need to cross that river.

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## jamahir

Wergeland said:


> I hope everyone here on PDF who lives in the West and supports and cheer for Russia, by now realize that, if there ever is a full scale War between the West and Russia, and even ICBMs starts flying, Russia wont differentiate between YOU, neutrals and those who are against Russia.
> 
> Its OK that you are against your own countries foreign policies. But to wish that a foreign country likely to want to harm your own country, wins a war, is just plain stupid and what i call self-defeating mentality.



It is natural for mullahs like you to cheer for lynch mobs who almost lynched a girl in Bangladesh who wore a jeans and top and then for your to cheer for your anti-human Capitalist-imperialist, genocidal, war-criming and regime-changing master, NATO.

@bluesky, see him. Mullah and NATO, made for each other.



PakFactor said:


> Ghar Vapsi haha








@Huffal

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## Viet

Oldman1 said:


> What about heavy weaponry?


Don’t think Germany relies on that. The Swiss are famous for high precision machinery from which Germany imports. If everything in place German manufacturing complex can build 5 submarines per month in war mode.


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## KendoKhan

Just my humble opinion but despite this war entering a very gruelling and protracted period, Ukraine will eventually prevail. It is a real shame that there are still people who believe that Russia's invasion of Ukraine was justified or somehow morally correct. There is nothing morally correct or ethical about this conflict.


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## KendoKhan

PakFactor said:


> Come on Russia — just nuke the damn European continent already


You do appreciate that would be a zero sum game for everyone right?


----------



## Primus

KendoKhan said:


> Just my humble opinion but despite this war entering a very gruelling and protracted period, Ukraine will eventually prevail. It is a real shame that there are still people who believe that Russia's invasion of Ukraine was justified or somehow morally correct. There is nothing morally correct or ethical about this conflict.


Has any war that has been fought since the past 40-50 years been justified?

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## KendoKhan

Huffal said:


> Has any war that has been fought since the past 40-50 years been justified?


I am glad you placed the *qualifier of last 40/50 years. And justification really is subjective when it comes to wars. The victor writes history to be honest. But regardless, what Russia is doing in Ukraine is unfathomable, the impact of these reckless actions are reverberating throughout the world well past the borders of the Baltic nations.

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## Primus

KendoKhan said:


> I am glad you placed the *qualifier of last 40/50 years. And justification really is subjective when it comes to wars. The victor writes history to be honest. But regardless, what Russia is doing in Ukraine is unfathomable, the impact of these reckless actions are reverberating throughout the world well past the borders of the Baltic nations.


Agreed, justification for a war is subjective. However, reckless actions should not just be put onto Russia, rather the whole world for failing to stop this war before it happened. Just like with Bosnia and Serbia, Kashmir, Palestine etc etc, the world has failed to act.

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## KendoKhan

Huffal said:


> Agreed, justification for a war is subjective. However, reckless actions should not just be put onto Russia, rather the whole world for failing to stop this war before it happened. Just like with Bosnia and Serbia, Kashmir, Palestine etc etc, the world has failed to act.


Yes I will agree with that sentiment, but what makes you think that Russia would agree to anything the "West" could have tabled? Remember Georgia or the 2014 conflict?


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## Primus

KendoKhan said:


> Yes I will agree with that sentiment, but what makes you think that Russia would agree to anything the "West" could have tabled? Remember Georgia or the 2014 conflict?


That lies with what the west has to offer. In an ideal scenario, both sides will lay down offers which benefit each other. For example, no war, security for Russian borders and/or Ukrainian borders, no sanctions, flow of trade routes etc. But people want these deals to better suit them rather than suiting both parties. Thats what is happening currently. Both the west and russia are only looking at themselves in these 'peacetalks'. Not the average Ukrainian citizen or even average person that will be suffering from this.

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## KendoKhan

Huffal said:


> That lies with what the west has to offer. In an ideal scenario, both sides will lay down offers which benefit each other. For example, no war, security for Russian borders and/or Ukrainian borders, no sanctions, flow of trade routes etc. But people want these deals to better suit them rather than suiting both parties. Thats what is happening currently. Both the west and russia are only looking at themselves in these 'peacetalks'. Not the average Ukrainian citizen or even average person that will be suffering from this.


Ah yes but the moral right is with Ukraine as a nation defending against aggression.

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## beast89

The east will fall soon

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## Primus

KendoKhan said:


> Ah yes but the moral right is with Ukraine as a nation defending against aggression.


They have the moral highground. Rather should i say HAD the moral highground had it not been for the stupid decisions Zelinsky took (no male in military age allowed to leave Ukraine and also talks of conscription) as well as the Azov battalions actions during the war (stopping civillians from fleeing the war zone). 

With the 1 legit person trying to defend his country, they will always be another 100 corrupt people trying to control it.

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## KendoKhan

beast89 said:


> The east will fall soon


The East wont fall, Russia has failed to make any meaningful progress of date.



Huffal said:


> They have the moral highground. Rather should i say HAD the moral highground had it not been for the stupid decisions Zelinsky took (no male in military age allowed to leave Ukraine and also talks of conscription) as well as the Azov battalions actions during the war (stopping civillians from fleeing the war zone).
> 
> With the 1 legit person trying to defend his country, they will always be another 100 corrupt people trying to control it.


Well desperate times and all that, Ukraine is a country of 35 million with a much smaller conventional army compared to Russia, so these decisions do make sense if you look at them pragmatically, now a for AZOV, I'm not a fan of the Azov brigades but most countries use such groups in times of crisis as force multiplies, the only concern for me is - what happens when the conflict is over. 

As for conscription, Russia has conscription. We need to look at this in perspective, is this any different then when the Royal Indian Army drafted in hundreds of thousands from the commonwealth - many who didn't have a say in the matter?

As for stopping civilians leaving the country - this will be something that I expect will see some future challenges in the ECHR in the Hauge, especially when Ukraine becomes a provisional member of the EU.

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## jamahir

KendoKhan said:


> Just my humble opinion but despite this war entering a very gruelling and protracted period, Ukraine will eventually prevail. It is a real shame that there are still people who believe that Russia's invasion of Ukraine was justified or somehow morally correct. There is nothing morally correct or ethical about this conflict.



Mine is the unpopular opinion among the lynch crowds like many rational and human opinions are but I support Russia. You joined today so you will see why today and the coming days.

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## KendoKhan

jamahir said:


> Mine is the unpopular opinion among the lynch crowds like many rational and human opinions are but I support Russia.


And you are welcome to that opinion, just as many courted Mussolini and Hitler et.al.

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## jamahir

KendoKhan said:


> And you are welcome to that opinion, just as many courted Mussolini and Hitler et.al.



Also to mention George Bushes, B'liar, Obomba, Camoron, Sarkozy, Killary Kill-in-tons and co.

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## KendoKhan

jamahir said:


> Also to mention George Bushes, B'liar, Obomba, Camoron, Sarkozy, Killary Kill-in-tons and co.


Well as for Bush and Blair, I think we can all agree that they were a stain on history...

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## The SC

Russia restricted the export of inert gases, including neon, until the end of the year, according to a government decree. These gases include argon, helium, and others, and are actively used for the production of semiconductors.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532023198472101888

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## jamahir

KendoKhan said:


> Well as for Bush and Blair, I think we can all agree that they were a stain on history...



Good. And the rest ?


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## KendoKhan

jamahir said:


> Good. And the rest ?


Pardon? What do you mean?


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532045522445410304

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## jamahir

KendoKhan said:


> Pardon? What do you mean?



There were four other names I took.

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## KendoKhan

jamahir said:


> There were four other names I took.


And what of them?


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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> I betray my own people? You're the one saying Ukraine is more Greek than Russian. Do you hear yourself?
> 
> 
> You're the one who always talks about civilised Europe and barbarian Asia and Africa. What are we,heathens?
> 
> 
> And destroy our economies in the proccess? I know you keep bragging about your money,but if this war brought your family down economically,to the point of not just not being able to travel here and there for your sports,but to only have one house and not being able to pay the bills,would you still insist for the war to keep going on?



I would. This is about our future and freedom. Russia must lose. Its an absolute imperative. Or one day we live same pathetic shithole lives as russians do in their failed state.

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## KendoKhan

Apollon said:


> I would. This is about our future and freedom. Russia must lose. Its an absolute imperative. Or one day we live same pathetic shithole lives as russians do in their failed state.


Hear Hear, Russia will be neutered in Ukraine.

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> The son must take his knowledge from this PDF thread  :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Video Gamers report in!
> 
> 
> What games are you currently playing? What games do you want to play? What systems do you own? Currently playing : League of Legends (PC) Minecraft (PC) Medal of Honor (PS3) Civ 5(PC) Want to play: Hawx series (Ps3/PC) Gran Turismo 5 (or was it 6?) (Ps3) Killzone 3 (Ps3) Fallout NV(Ps3/PC)...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rain of fire !
> 
> 
> 
> And I have ask you before, how can you support Zelensky who has banned all opposition parties especially because many of them happen to be leftist and has put at least one into house arrest and has gotten one of his mediators with Russia executed ? Isn't this what NATO accuses its enemies of ? Yet NATO is openly supporting dictator Zelensky with hypocrisy.
> 
> You constantly accuse @Foinikas of betrayal and what not, but just because he rejects the anti-human and irrational line taken by NATO governments. You have created a fascist majoritarian dictatorship in Europe just like we have in India where any dissenter is automatically labeled "anti-national" and told "Go to Pakistan !"  You say Europe is not like Russia, that Europe is civilized and democratic yet you are not allowing Foinikas to have his right of thought especially when he is making much sense. Is this right of you ?
> 
> 
> 
> What's next ? You going to Sweden and role playing a Viking warrior from a 1000 years ago ?
> 
> 
> 
> So first you told me that about @Hassan Al-Somal and now about The SC. Firstly, how do I know who all are on your ignore list and secondly, why are you ignoring them when they are taking the trouble of finding and presenting the daily and broad truths of the Ukraine war which NATO media is not admitting and in fact going stubbornly against ? Are you rejecting that Nazis are not being found, even from Azovstal ? That the "democracy-protector" Ukraine military is not committing war crimes and just foulest crimes really ? A group of them holding down a Russian soldier in the night and he moaning in terrible pain, with them holding him down more as he moans more, maybe they just burning him with a swastika or cutting him up I don't know. That vid posted here was deleted by mods. The same brave Ukrainian Territorial Defense Forces shooting up cars of civilians as they flee cities. You were making multiple posts including to me about how the a Russian tank fired upon a Ukrainian civilian cyclist. That firing would have been a honest mistake but you just ignore the real crimes by the fanatics among the Ukrainian military. So many crimes. And what happened to Bucha is what I asked you multiple times ? NATO made a big lie just like it has done since 1949, besmirched Russia and now has moved to other lies. What are you doing, man ?



I do what i see as best for my people. 


Death to Russia



KendoKhan said:


> Hear Hear, Russia will be neutered in Ukraine.



It was anemic even before Ukraine. Now its dissolved

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## _Nabil_

The SC said:


> Russia restricted the export of inert gases, including neon, until the end of the year, according to a government decree. These gases include argon, helium, and others, and are actively used for the production of semiconductors.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532023198472101888


Is this related to this ?









Taiwan Restricts Russia, Belarus to CPUs Under 25 MHz Frequency


No more Taiwan-made CPUs, microcontrollers for Russia and Belarus.




www.tomshardware.com

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## jamahir

KendoKhan said:


> And what of them?



What of them ? They are as much genociders, war criminals and regime changers as the Bushes and B'liar.



KendoKhan said:


> Hear Hear, Russia will be neutered in Ukraine.



You worry about the flood of Russian radiation that can come to your gatherings of "Brothers" Dawah Man and Muhammad Hijab. 



Apollon said:


> I would. This is about our future and freedom. Russia must lose. Its an absolute imperative. Or one day we live same pathetic shithole lives as russians do in their failed state.



Failed state Russia ? You never replied to this post of mine on "highest living standards" Europe.



Apollon said:


> I do what i see as best for my people.
> 
> 
> Death to Russia



Who are your people ?



_Nabil_ said:


> Is this related to this ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taiwan Restricts Russia, Belarus to CPUs Under 25 MHz Frequency
> 
> 
> No more Taiwan-made CPUs, microcontrollers for Russia and Belarus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tomshardware.com





> Speaking of chip production in Russia, it is interesting to note that MCST, the developer of Elbrus CPUs, is negotiating with Russian contract chipmaker Mikron to make processors domestically, according to RBC. MCST's most advanced Elbrus chip was made at TSMC using the company's 16 nm fabrication technology. By contrast, Mikron's most advanced node is 90 nm.


90 nm is fine ATM. I suppose Mikron supplies to Russian space, research, government and military applications where reliability is critical.


----------



## KendoKhan

jamahir said:


> You worry about the flood of Russian radiation that can come to your gatherings of "Brothers" Dawah Man and Muhammad Hijab.


Question for you... Why would you presume what my religion is?


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> What of them ? They are as much genociders, war criminals and regime changers as the Bushes and B'liar.
> 
> 
> 
> You worry about the flood of Russian radiation that can come to your gatherings of "Brothers" Dawah Man and Muhammad Hijab.
> 
> 
> 
> Failed state Russia ? You never replied to this post of mine on "highest living standards" Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> Who are your people ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 90 nm is fine ATM. I suppose Mikron supplies to Russian space, research, government and military applications where reliability is critical.



Russia is dirt poor and led by a facist terror regime. Its absolute horror version how i inagine life should be. An everlasting depressive freak show.


Russia is our enemy and we fight them whatever it takes.

My people -> Europe


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Russia is dirt poor and led by a facist terror regime. Its absolute horror version how i inagine life should be. An everlasting depressive freak show.


You're retarded if you think that about Russia. You should go check North Korea or life in poor African countries or central America.


----------



## Elvin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532261008605061120

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> You're retarded if you think that about Russia. You should go check North Korea or life in poor African countries or central America.



I visited Russia. Its a shithole. Never saw more depressive place like Irkutsk. 

Central america or african countries at least have joy, colors and happiness. Russia is just that, grey, dead, corrupted and tyranny.



Elvin said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532261008605061120



What they saying? I dont speak orcish


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> I visited Russia. Its a shithole. Never saw more depressive place like Irkutsk.


Irkutsk is in the eastern part of Siberia ffs.



Apollon said:


> I would. This is about our future and freedom. Russia must lose. Its an absolute imperative. Or one day we live same pathetic shithole lives as russians do in their failed state.


You're saying that now. You have your money,you travel around the world for trekking and fun. You study in Germany. You live a nice life. 

If you went bankrupt because of the war and were reduced to one house,no trips and no studies abroad or even going out for coffee and food with friends then you would have nagged about the war dragging on and on.


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## jamahir

KendoKhan said:


> Question for you... Why would you presume what my religion is?



Well, I saw Khan in your name and you live in Britain so...



Foinikas said:


> You're retarded if you think that about Russia. You should go check North Korea or life in poor African countries or central America.



North Korea has free housing, free healthcare, free education and other things. It is a welfare-based society that is very organized, clean and much better than most parts of the "free world" especially my India. 









a beautiful post about north korea


Sukant Chandan with Shaun Ajamu Hutchinson and 27 others. January 6 at 3:53pm In 1945 the people of Korea overthrew Japanese and western imperialism, a revolution by radical socialists and communists led by the late president of socialist 'North Korea' (Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea) Kim...



defence.pk













30 best panoramas of north korea


30 Best Panoramas of North Korea April 26, 2015 Photography, Travel Ever wondered how a secretive socialist country locked from the outside world looks like? Many of us who has never been to North Korea depicts the country with visuals of obsessive military parades, shouting strict army men...



defence.pk

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## KendoKhan

jamahir said:


> Well, I saw Khan in your name and you live in Britain so...


Khan is actually Mongolic in origin, it is often an easy mistake to make to assume that everyone who shares the surname Khan is either from a particular belt of Pakistan which is sad. As I explained to another poster, I am an ethnic Ashkun, my family although originally from Afghanistan are settled in Chitral, we are what people in Pakistan refer to as Khana Badosh (refugees/nomads).

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532349855519191042


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## jamahir

KendoKhan said:


> Khan is actually Mongolic in origin



I know but I didn't think there could be a Mongolian Buddhist in Britain. 



KendoKhan said:


> As I explained to another poster, I am an ethnic Ashkun, my family although originally from Afghanistan are settled in Chitral, we are what people in Pakistan refer to as Khana Badosh (refugees/nomads).



I see and I now saw in the 'New introductions' thread you saying "I am new to this forum, I am a British Pakistani."

You will be interested to know of another Khana Badosh on PDF who disappeared from the forum four days after he joined in 2019 but he left much info about the community and its troubles and the oppressions it faces :




__





Assalamu alaikum. New member here from Khanabadosh community


My name here is Awara Pardesi and these are not empty words to me, they are my reality. I belong a tribe of gypsies and our origin is with the untouchable Dalit caste and I am very proud of this. My tribe is caught between India, Pakistan and Afghanistan but now since we can’t get Indian visa...



defence.pk





Also, you say you are in the British army reserves. Well, I will ask you to exit from this component of Capitalist-imperialist genocider NATO that creates and supports proxy groups like Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood.

Lastly, are you a Muslim or do you consider yourself a Muslim or are you another since that was your question to me ?

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## KendoKhan

jamahir said:


> I know but I didn't think there could be a Mongolian Buddhist in Britain.
> 
> 
> 
> I see and I now saw in the 'New introductions' thread you saying "I am new to this forum, I am a British Pakistani."
> 
> You will be interested to know of another Khana Badosh on PDF who disappeared from the forum four days after he joined in 2019 but he left much info about the community and its troubles and the oppressions it faces :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Assalamu alaikum. New member here from Khanabadosh community
> 
> 
> My name here is Awara Pardesi and these are not empty words to me, they are my reality. I belong a tribe of gypsies and our origin is with the untouchable Dalit caste and I am very proud of this. My tribe is caught between India, Pakistan and Afghanistan but now since we can’t get Indian visa...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, you say you are in the British army reserves. Well, I will ask you to exit from this component of Capitalist-imperialist genocider NATO that creates and supports proxy groups like Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood.
> 
> Lastly, are you a Muslim or do you consider yourself a Muslim or are you another since that was your question to me ?





> I know but I didn't think there could be a Mongolian Buddhist in Britain.


I am not a Buddhist - *I don't follow any organised religion. *


> Lastly, are you a Muslim or do you consider yourself a Muslim or are you another since that was your question to me ?


See my first answer above. Stay happy! 

Now lets discuss Russia and Ukraine war .

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Irkutsk is in the eastern part of Siberia ffs.
> 
> 
> You're saying that now. You have your money,you travel around the world for trekking and fun. You study in Germany. You live a nice life.
> 
> If you went bankrupt because of the war and were reduced to one house,no trips and no studies abroad or even going out for coffee and food with friends then you would have nagged about the war dragging on and on.



No, i would blow up russians then to help us win.


----------



## KendoKhan

doorstar said:


> true that but it was also a title of the leaders of small tribes in afghani just like chowdry was the title of a village owner in punjab, just like rajput was the title of a servant of a ruler (from any zaat/caste).
> 
> then khan bahadar was a title given to their sub-continental loyalists by the British
> 
> but now khan has evolved into a name, just like rajput has become a qom, seen a sub-village in AJK where every single person writes chowdry with their name and they changed the name of the place from dhok chhappraan to dhok chowdrian.
> 
> in many areas many gujjars jats bains and other have changed their qom to chowdary, it is no longer a title but a zaat
> 
> @M. Sarmad help!


Yes, I only added the Khan to my handle because when a friend in University would call me Khan bahi . I didn't know it would cause so much controversy.

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## jamahir

KendoKhan said:


> I am not a Buddhist - *I don't follow any organised religion.*



OK.



KendoKhan said:


> See my first answer above. Stay happy!
> 
> Now lets discuss Russia and Ukraine war .



Fine then please note my suggestion to exit the genocidal and criminal British military to avoid being called up to participate in the NATO support of Ukrainian Nazis and the thief and war criminal Zelensky and to avoid aggression against Russian soldiers and perhaps in the coming months against Russia itself.

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## Corax

KendoKhan said:


> I am not a Buddhist - *I don't follow any organised religion. *
> 
> See my first answer above. Stay happy!
> 
> Now lets discuss Russia and Ukraine war .



You're new here. As you may have already realised, this particular poster spams the forum with communist ideological material and takes it on himself to tell people what to do and judge them based on their beliefs, or lack thereof. Given the backdrop of the forum, agnostic/atheist orientated ideas can be difficult to convey...as I've learnt through previous experience.

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## KendoKhan

Corax said:


> You're new here. As you may have already realised, this particular poster spams the forum with communist ideological material and takes it on himself to tell people what to do and judge them based on their beliefs, or lack thereof. Given the backdrop of the forum, agnostic/atheist orientated ideas can be difficult to convey...as I've learnt through previous experience.


Thank you for the heads up. I appreciate it.



jamahir said:


> Fine then please note my suggestion to exit the genocidal and criminal British military


I wish to serve the country that has given me so much. I respect your right to an opinion, and I will respect my freedom to choose my own path. I don't think the British Army will actively get involved in the Ukrainian conflict, even if it does, if I am required to volunteer, I will gladly do so. My loyalty first and foremost is to Britain.

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> No, i would blow up russians then to help us win.


Zelensky said Russians control 20% of Ukraine.

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Zelensky said Russians control 20% of Ukraine.



Pussolini wanted controle all of Ukraine within 3 days. And until 2014 Russia controller 100% of it. Looks food for us. all this wipes tenhousands of russian family lines off. 

Time to heat it up a bit and send more heavy weapons.


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Pussolini wanted controle all of Ukraine within 3 days. And until 2014 Russia controller 100% of it. Looks food for us. all this wipes tenhousands of russian family lines off.
> 
> Time to heat it up a bit and send more heavy weapons.


When you say "Looks good for* us*"? 

Are you fighting in the first line?

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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532143813514387458
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532117662280605697



2 tank, 1 btr 80, 2 logistics vehicles

This is what Russian screening unit looks like there today. Very light. 4-8 groups of tanks were not seen there today.

Maybe they are splitting them, to restore companies
Maybe heavier forces were diverted to preparing a defence line further south
100 days into the war, and we still have no idea what force exactly they have on the south. Maybe they been _intentionally_ exaggerating their numbers from the start?

Remembering the first days of war, Russians did in fact retreat behind the Antonovskiy bridge despite the defending force being really, really small. Did the entire field army, and corps group retreat from a single undermanned brigade?

Why did Russians did crumble so fast despite preparing their defences for 3 months?

Imho, Kherson is just 1 blown bridge away from being taken. They may have been putting this as a deception from the start.

Is it a diversion, or a straight deception like how Soviets did it in WW2? @jhungary

I believe Ukrainians should have blown up the bridge long ago, and ground them down into surrender.

A single bridge span on Antonovskiy bridge can be repaired within weeks, for as long as columns are intact.


----------



## Paul2

jamahir said:


> What of them ? They are as much genociders, war criminals and regime changers as the Bushes and B'liar.
> 
> 
> 
> You worry about the flood of Russian radiation that can come to your gatherings of "Brothers" Dawah Man and Muhammad Hijab.
> 
> 
> 
> Failed state Russia ? You never replied to this post of mine on "highest living standards" Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> Who are your people ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 90 nm is fine ATM. I suppose Mikron supplies to Russian space, research, government and military applications where reliability is critical.



Russia has no substrate makers, nor own semi chemicals.

All suppliers of stuff above are in USA, Germany, Taiwan, and South Korea


----------



## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> 1 tank, 1 btr 80, 2 logistics vehicles
> 
> This is what Russian screening unit looks like there today. Very light. 4-8 groups of tanks were not seen there today.
> 
> Maybe they are splitting them, to restore companies
> Maybe heavier forces were diverted to preparing a defence line further south
> 100 days into the war, and we still have no idea what force exactly they have on the south. Maybe they been _intentionally_ exaggerating their numbers from the start?
> 
> Remembering the first days of war, Russians did in fact retreat behind the Antonovskiy bridge despite the defending force being really, really small. Did the entire field army, and corps group retreat from a single undermanned brigade?
> 
> Why did Russians did crumble so fast despite preparing their defences for 3 months?
> 
> Imho, Kherson is just 1 blown bridge away from being taken. They may have been putting this as a deception from the start.
> 
> Is it a diversion, or a straight deception like how Soviets did it in WW2? @jhungary




The Russians moved a significant amount of armor and artillery from other axis to the Severodonetsk front. There’s few Russian units south of Kherson to Crimea. The Russian position in Kherson is unsustainable.

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## jamahir

KendoKhan said:


> I don't think the British Army will actively get involved in the Ukrainian conflict, even if it does, if I am required to volunteer, I will gladly do so. My loyalty first and foremost is to Britain.



Your loyalty first and foremost should be to humanity, to rationality and justice. There are many people in Britain or of British-origin who would be opposed to their names slotted unwillingly among the British people slobbering for killing Russians like dogs hunting down a cat. Please contact the wonderful, young Sukant Chandan of the Sons of Malcom group in Britain who has agitated against NATO imperialism especially since the 2011 invasions of Libyan Jamahiriya and Syria :


> JANUARY 18, 2013 BY SAMIROL
> Sons of Malcolm: A letter of revolutionary love to our pro-arab spring brothers and sisters on the question of Algeria​
> http://sonsofmalcolm.blogspot.com/2013/01/a-letter-of-revolutionary-love-to-our.html
> 
> *I sent this message this morning to a great upstanding and knowledgeable brother, we have been on different sides of the barricades in Libya and Syria, but I am pleading with people to close ranks with Algerian FLN and army against imperalism. – Sukant Chandan, Sons of Malcolm
> Peace Brother,
> 
> Brother, I write to you with revolutionary love.
> 
> I am pleading and begging you to see what the enemy has done to Libya and now Syria (and also Tunisia and Egypt), and I beg you to please not make the same mistakes on FLN Algeria.
> 
> I put it to you that in the interests of isolating the white imperialists we MUST close ranks totally with the FLN Algerian state and army and defend their right to defeat imperialist plans against them.
> 
> Let us put our egos and political sectarianism aside, and fight wholly against the imperialists, and close ranks totally with the FLN Algerians and army who are fighting not only for their independence, but your country’s as well, the whole North Africa, whole of Africa and the entire GlobalSouth.
> 
> I wish you a blessed day and respect and love to you and your family and loved ones.
> 
> Sukant*


And then read dispatches from the lovely and rational journalist Lizzie Phelan who was in Libya in 2011 during the war and has reported from Syria 2011 onwards and interviewed Bashar al Assad too. She spoke truths about the the NATO lies against the systems of Muammar Gaddafi and Assad. She spoke in the British parliament against the British operation against Muammar. She is brilliant and truth-seeking and has worked with Ruptly ( associated with RT ) and has appeared on Iranian TV :



















Paul2 said:


> Russia has no substrate makers, nor semi chemicals.
> 
> All suppliers of stuff above are in USA, Germany, Taiwan, and South Korea



Who was doing it during USSR times ? And there is China of course ( SMIC etc ).

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532316643254226945

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## _Nabil_

jamahir said:


> Your loyalty first and foremost should be to humanity, to rationality and justice. There are many people in Britain or of British-origin who would be opposed to their names slotted unwillingly among the British people slobbering for killing Russians like dogs hunting down a cat. Please contact the wonderful, young Sukant Chandan of the Sons of Malcom group in Britain who has agitated against NATO imperialism especially since the 2011 invasions of Libyan Jamahiriya and Syria :
> 
> And then read dispatches from the lovely and rational journalist Lizzie Phelan who was in Libya in 2011 during the war and has reported from Syria 2011 onwards and interviewed Bashar al Assad too. She spoke truths about the the NATO lies against the systems of Muammar Gaddafi and Assad. She spoke in the British parliament against the British operation against Muammar. She is brilliant and truth-seeking and has worked with Ruptly ( associated with RT ) and has appeared on Iranian TV :


He can't, he got the "Brown man complexe", yes Sahib !

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532415760986931201

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> When you say "Looks good for* us*"?
> 
> Are you fighting in the first line?
> 
> View attachment 850337



I pay a guy to ship bones. 😂

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## The SC

*The most important points made by the head of the Left Party in Germany and foreign policy spokesman Gregory Jesse in the discussion on Ukraine in the Bundestag:*


 The US + EU don't know what to do after their sanctions against Russia that didn't work but also backfired
 Germans, the more NATO distrusts Russia, the more hostile it is to Russia, and the more Russia is pushed away from the European Union, the higher the price of Russian fuel, metals, food, fertilizers and chemicals... and out of your reach.
 Russian weapons are flying farther and higher, faster, more accurate and more destructive. It has been proven concretely as we have not seen. for a long time
 The United States and the European Union have always imposed 4,000 sanctions on Russia, and now there are about 7,000 bans. What are the consequences of your arbitrary punishments now?
 do you know? Anne, Russia, and history proves it: they are never defeated in military wars - I'm not exaggerating
 Europe cannot have true peace without Russia
 So in the end, the EU and Russia clashed with each other for what? Who benefits?
 Do we buy American oil and gas cheaper than Russian? Do we buy American minerals, chemicals and wheat cheaper from Russia and with the same facilities offered from Russia?
 If there is an unfortunate conflict with Russia - will the Americans keep their promise to implement Article 5 of NATO to protect your country? Let me tell you - once the conflict has occurred - Americans will want and be busy at that time to save their lives, where and when can they save you?
 Please be careful and read Putin's message carefully when it comes to red lines.. do you think he is just joking to scare you? I suppose attacking them from many sides, you must understand that the land on which you stand here, including America, will become a desert before you finish your prayers.

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## ZeGerman

The SC said:


> *The most important points made by the head of the Left Party in Germany and foreign policy spokesman Gregory Jesse in the discussion on Ukraine in the Bundestag:*
> 
> 
> The US + EU don't know what to do after their sanctions against Russia that didn't work but also backfired
> Germans, the more NATO distrusts Russia, the more hostile it is to Russia, and the more Russia is pushed away from the European Union, the higher the price of Russian fuel, metals, food, fertilizers and chemicals... and out of your reach.
> Russian weapons are flying farther and higher, faster, more accurate and more destructive. It has been proven concretely as we have not seen. for a long time
> The United States and the European Union have always imposed 4,000 sanctions on Russia, and now there are about 7,000 bans. What are the consequences of your arbitrary punishments now?
> do you know? Anne, Russia, and history proves it: they are never defeated in military wars - I'm not exaggerating
> Europe cannot have true peace without Russia
> So in the end, the EU and Russia clashed with each other for what? Who benefits?
> Do we buy American oil and gas cheaper than Russian? Do we buy American minerals, chemicals and wheat cheaper from Russia and with the same facilities offered from Russia?
> If there is an unfortunate conflict with Russia - will the Americans keep their promise to implement Article 5 of NATO to protect your country? Let me tell you - once the conflict has occurred - Americans will want and be busy at that time to save their lives, where and when can they save you?
> Please be careful and read Putin's message carefully when it comes to red lines.. do you think he is just joking to scare you? I suppose attacking them from many sides, you must understand that the land on which you stand here, including America, will become a desert before you finish your prayers.


What party exactly? And what name exactly? Cannot find this supposed “leader” online.



jamahir said:


> Your loyalty first and foremost should be to humanity, to rationality and justice. There are many people in Britain or of British-origin who would be opposed to their names slotted unwillingly among the British people slobbering for killing Russians like dogs hunting down a cat. Please contact the wonderful, young Sukant Chandan of the Sons of Malcom group in Britain who has agitated against NATO imperialism especially since the 2011 invasions of Libyan Jamahiriya and Syria :
> 
> And then read dispatches from the lovely and rational journalist Lizzie Phelan who was in Libya in 2011 during the war and has reported from Syria 2011 onwards and interviewed Bashar al Assad too. She spoke truths about the the NATO lies against the systems of Muammar Gaddafi and Assad. She spoke in the British parliament against the British operation against Muammar. She is brilliant and truth-seeking and has worked with Ruptly ( associated with RT ) and has appeared on Iranian TV :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who was doing it during USSR times ? And there is China of course ( SMIC etc ).


Russia could have chosen european integration and trade. They however decide to do what they always do to their eastern european colonies, commit atrocities and use force….

You are on the sidelines cheering for a colonialist empire that committed the holodomir, the execution of 20.000 polish intellectuals and pows, that time and time again mistreated former warsaw pact nations. Who came RUNNING to de DEFENSIVE pact called Nato. 

Now russia is sending itself back decades. To become a new north korea like buffer for china….

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## A.P. Richelieu

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532316643254226945


Another 5,000 AT-4s, complementing the 10,000 already sent.

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## The SC

Mariupol commercial port successfully received and dispatched ships

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## A.P. Richelieu

ZeGerman said:


> What party exactly? And what name exactly? Cannot find this supposed “leader” online.
> 
> 
> Russia could have chosen european integration and trade. They however decide to do what they always do to their eastern european colonies, commit atrocities and use force….
> 
> You are on the sidelines cheering for a colonialist empire that committed the holodomir, the execution of 20.000 polish intellectuals and pows, that time and time again mistreated former warsaw pact nations. Who came RUNNING to de DEFENSIVE pact called Nato.
> 
> Now russia is sending itself back decades. To become a new north korea like buffer for china….


He does not care about what Russia is doing.
He cares about that Western countries are opposed To Russias War.
That alone makes him a supporter Of Russia.
If the West would have supported Russia, he would have been Russias greatest opponent.
He is now on my ignore list.

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## Viet

The SC said:


> *The most important points made by the head of the Left Party in Germany and foreign policy spokesman Gregory Jesse in the discussion on Ukraine in the Bundestag:*
> 
> 
> The US + EU don't know what to do after their sanctions against Russia that didn't work but also backfired
> Germans, the more NATO distrusts Russia, the more hostile it is to Russia, and the more Russia is pushed away from the European Union, the higher the price of Russian fuel, metals, food, fertilizers and chemicals... and out of your reach.
> Russian weapons are flying farther and higher, faster, more accurate and more destructive. It has been proven concretely as we have not seen. for a long time
> The United States and the European Union have always imposed 4,000 sanctions on Russia, and now there are about 7,000 bans. What are the consequences of your arbitrary punishments now?
> do you know? Anne, Russia, and history proves it: they are never defeated in military wars - I'm not exaggerating
> Europe cannot have true peace without Russia
> So in the end, the EU and Russia clashed with each other for what? Who benefits?
> Do we buy American oil and gas cheaper than Russian? Do we buy American minerals, chemicals and wheat cheaper from Russia and with the same facilities offered from Russia?
> If there is an unfortunate conflict with Russia - will the Americans keep their promise to implement Article 5 of NATO to protect your country? Let me tell you - once the conflict has occurred - Americans will want and be busy at that time to save their lives, where and when can they save you?
> Please be careful and read Putin's message carefully when it comes to red lines.. do you think he is just joking to scare you? I suppose attacking them from many sides, you must understand that the land on which you stand here, including America, will become a desert before you finish your prayers.


Fake news
Mods should take down posters spewing propaganda and nonsense.

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## K_Bin_W

The SC said:


> Mariupol commercial port successfully received and dispatched ships



Is this under UKr or Russian control? There are too many claims and counterclaims.


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## The SC

ZeGerman said:


> What party exactly? And what name exactly? Cannot find this supposed “leader” online.


Gregor Gysi

President of the Party of the European Left and a prominent politician of The Left (_Die Linke_) political party.

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## MajesticPug

A.P. Richelieu said:


> NATO did not have any operations in Korea.
> North Korea was fought by the United Nations after starting a Soviet/China supported war of aggression.


For the record, China did not support Kim's invasion into SKorea. Mao at the time was focused on 'resolving' Taiwan (unify Taiwan). Kim's blunt adventure caught Mao unprepared and cornered him into deciding to help N Korea when Kim's forces were getting beat badly and N Korea as a buffer being eliminated. Soon after Chinese forces entered the Korea theatre, US 7th Fleet patrolled the Taiwan Strait and basically stopped Mao's plan to unify Taiwan.

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## MajesticPug

ckf said:


> None of these will matter(MLRS, Harpoons, artilleries, tanks) when Ukraine has no forward logistic and supply capabilities. Russia dictate terms of engagement and will eventually grind Ukraine to submission by using Missiles, long range artillery and air bombardments. Ukrainian Army are just Cannon fodders for the Americans.



Agreed. Only Western-government-funded media praised their weapons to sky-high status and if you listened to these and Ukrainian government annoucements, you'd believe Ukrainian forces are on the verge of toppling Moscow. Oh wait, Moscow was toppled by Ukrainian armies in February and it must be the Russian Far East being attacked.  Wow China must be mobilizing its forces to defend its northern fronts from the all-mighty Ukrainians.

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## ZeGerman

The SC said:


> Gregor Gysi
> 
> President of the Party of the European Left and a prominent politician of The Left (_Die Linke_) political party.


Oh the retired leader of a small party of 5% votes. One suspected to have been a stasi informer. 

He still says whatever they pay him for….


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## Paul2

jamahir said:


> Who was doing it during USSR times ? And there is China of course ( SMIC etc ).



Soviets didn't even have round wafers, they had 20x20mm square substrates, and were making ICs one by one.

The West switched to CMOS, while Soviets stayed on TTL.

I am very sure their foundries, and supply chain died off since there is no chance they could've made anything commercially viable on TTL.

Take a look how Bulgarian foundries fared — a country which by far had a much smoother transition from plan economy to market.

SMIC? SMIC similarly imports almost all consumables. Only few years ago, a domestic 300mm wafer maker appeared with quality to match WaferTech


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## Elvin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532419363806097409


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532266831393828864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532350137938452480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532238677644042240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532438715171319809


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532372527196028931

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532257457375956993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532241332097499137

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## The SC

Urgent | Dmitry Medvedev to Al-Jazeera: A new, balanced order is now taking shape in the world against the will of the Americans
@AJABreaking

Urgent | Dmitry Medvedev to Al Jazeera: Washington's decision to deliver long-range missile launchers threatens Russian security
@AJABreaking

NATO Secretary General: Russia and China pose a major threat to the world
@AlArabiya_Brk

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532461150549467138

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532436976128905241

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532443944730099713

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532437670328160257

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## Nuclear Clown

RoadAmerica said:


> Oh and I scanned the rest, pretty much a blame America paragraph. Please don’t tell me you actually think the Rafael is better than the f-35 or f-22? The f-35 has more computing power than any modern fighter and the Rafael isn’t even stealth


That's what the* Lockheed troll factory says*, not understanding that the *F-22's first generation stealth was obsolete when the F-22 was introduced* in 2005 since *Rafale introduced the 2nd generation stealth* while still in IOC = before 2004 FOC status for Rafale-M (2006 for Rafale-C/B). During NATO drills against the Slovak S-300 (which has been given to Ukraine recently), the only NATO aircraft that was left unharmed was Rafale, even when overflying the battery. And, since all NATO aircraft have been tested, this implies that F-35, F-22, F-117 and B-2 impaled themselves on S-300 (would have made more sense had it been a Romanian S-300 'coz Vlad the Impaler)... So, if F-35, F-22, F-117 and B-2 got busted and Rafale couldn't be detected at all, guess which is the stealthiest? Russians+Serbs helped to modernize Gaddafi's air defences : IADS on par with a fully computerized S-300 network, S-200 with solid fuel and solid-state parts, some say the old seeker was replaced by 3 modern ones: one from R-77 active radar seeker head, one R-77P/RVV-PE Passive homing (home on radar or on jamming, no great for the EA-18G Growler) and one IR seeker, probably from R-73... Bingo, even with an old OTHR around, with the 30km range of the R-73's seeker and its LOAL capability, this old cow which was long seen as only good at shooting down airliners becomes a serious issue for 5th gen aircraft, not for Rafale which is the aircraft that entered Libyan airspace first in 2011, and w.o. any cruise missile preparation. Many say that the F-35I damaged on Oct.16th 2017, on _the same day Shoigu visited Israel _and Syria launched S-200 to repel an Israeli raid, wasn't damaged by a collision with two stork, but by some of the 37,000 tungsten pellets from a V-880/5V28 missile launched by a _"Stork-200" battery_. Strange synchronicity😉

*Rafael is the Israeli maker of Iron-Dome. There is no aircraft with such a name.
You obviously don't know about the subject. Rafale means fireburst from a machinegun or windgust.*




Rafale F4 spec sheath includes "REINFORCEMENT OF STEALTH"...
You can't reinforce something that doesn't exists.
S-400's radar can detect a F-22 or F-35 from 150km and a Rafale at F3 standard only from 35-40km, during NATO drills against S-300 batteries, the ONLY NATO aircraft left unharmed was Rafale, going as far as overflying the batteries at high altitude without ringing any alarm.
The Rafale stealth technology can be switched ON/OFF, that's why US Patriot SAM teams at Red Flag nicknamed it "the Klingon Vessel".
With the F4 upgrade, thanks to ONERA's 3rd gen stealth technology, Rafale can fully absorb any type of radar waves, including from UHF radars like OTHRs, while F-22 or F-35 are no more stealth in the lower S-band, and the lower the frequency, the lesser the stealth, e.g. our NOSTRADAMUS OTHR can track a B-2 in a bombing mission over Syria from France with a 5km accuracy (and at only 5km, it's not stealth for a missile AESA seeker), and B-2 is stealthier than F-22, NOSTRADAMUS won't track a Rafale F4.

The RBE-2/AESA has been upgraded and is now more powerful than the APG-77 and APG-81, morever, the Thales T/R modules are not just GaN : they introduced another element allowing each module to do the job two used on the Northrop-Grumman radars, hey, guess why Raytheon has created a joint-venture making radars with Thales: if Raytheon was able to do this stuff on its own, they would, same for GE with the CFM56 or the LEAP, and if Safran was able of GE's mass production, there'd be no CFM consortium!

Frankly, even a Super-Hornet upgraded with Rafale F3 systems would be better than F-35, in fact, I wouldn't be too surprised if the Advanced Super-Hornet demonstrator was fit with Rafale stuff : Boeing has very very good relations with Dassault : Dassault has been contracted to fully optimize Boeing's production, it's even why they could deliver the T-7 RedHawk that fast. IMHO, the F-18/ASH has not gone further due to the NIH syndrome in the Congress, c'mon, Everybody in the industry knows that F-35 is a fiasco, even USAF Chief of staff declared F-35 can't even replace the F-16. Gen Brown declared that USAF would need a "5 gen minus" aircraft, well, since there is something even better than "5 gen minus" and there's no other game in town, why not going 5.5th gen?
We'd definitively wouldn't object Boeing starting to mass produce Rafale for the USAF, USN and USMC, you know, there's a 100kN dry thrust version of the M88, and Safran can deliver with 115kN afterburner within 18 months... Just install a ski-jump then an angled deck over sponsons on your LHDs and the America and Wasp classes can start operating Rafale-M in STOBAR config and at MTOW...

Another big advantage : with F-22 or F-35 1st gen stealth, external payloads ruin stealth, although it seems that now F-22 is being seen with a stealth drop-tank with an AMRAAM inside. Be it 2nd gen stealth up to Rafale F3R, or 3rd gen starting with Rafale F4, external payloads are no issue, so...





Considering up to 7 Meteor BVRAAM or MICA-NG per hardpoint would be no issue for Rafale (depending on the hardpoint ratings). Even if nothing like this has ever been shown since there was no true air-to-air warfare since the Beka'a valley great turkey shooting, but there would be no technical issues preventing arming Rafale-C/B with up to 39 Meteors and 9 MICA-NG at once while the Rafale-M would be limited to 2 MICA-NG

Moreover, CFM has already considered producing the M88, in fact, the successor for the LEAP will probably be the propfan version of the M88... Thus, nonetheless Boeing is geared to produce Dassault designs, GE can produce the engines at the CFM plant and Raytheon can produce the Thales stuff...
The 6th gen NGAD will replace F-22 but will be very expensive, the F-35 will never reach its specs sheath and it's a hangar queen with a disastrous operational capability and orbital costs of use. There's nothing F-35 can do that Rafale can't except V/STOL for F-35B, but modifying a straight deck as an angled deck was successful on the Essex-class and Rafale-M has been qualified for STOBAR use, and it's also validated for the CVNs for long...









So, it's simply time to pull the plug unless you want to lose your military dominance, especially in the Pacific Ocean...
Therefore... As well as the Zumwalt-class ended being a fiasco and now US-Navy mass orders the Italo-French FREMM stealth frigates, it's time to do the same thing with F-35 that USAF did with the F-104 (stopped the purchases after about 500 units which were later re-sold if not given (and BTW, the F-104 won the NATO competition over Mirage-III thanks to briberies and DoS pressures. F-104 was a pure turd, Mirage-III is still the #1 MiG-eater today) and USMC/USN with the XFV-12 which was replaced by an English aircraft, the Harrier









*Comparing Rafale to F-22 is impossible, it's like comparing apples and oranges!!! F-22 is a real monster with 312kN of thrust... *
But... F-22 would greatly profit from being upgraded using more advanced Rafale's technologies!
- Rafale's radar absorbent skin material doesn't needs any recoating...
Instead of needing 28 hours of recoating per flight hour, thanks to the new LM coating (the previous one needed 32 hours/fly hour, source : AviationWeek/LM-communiqué), F-22 would start to fly as much as an F-15 and no more $69k/hour
- F-22 is not stealth at all against radars with frequencies under 3 GHz... You barely don't have a single air defense radar sold today operating over 2.9GHz moreover, with the numerous passive radars, F-22's stealth is obsolete... Use Rafale's SPECTRA with the new 3rd gen stealth, problem solved!!!
- OSF-IT is not an IRST, it's a 2nd gen QWIP, and 3rd gen will be installed on Rafale F4.2. This tech is also used for DDM-NG (MAWS+EODAS), TALIOS and AREOS. OSF-IT specs are classified, but the 25y old OSF "1" specs have leaked : it could lock-on a subsonic F-22 from 90-155km and a Mach 1.8 one from 270-455km... Even without upgrades, do datafusion with a 1st gen EODAS and targetting pod, you'd get a multi-miror telescope effect...
Sorry, but when it comes to electro-optcs, USA are even far behind Russia which is #2, the F-35's IRST is far under the OLS-35 on 20+ years old Su-30... Russia already fields a 1st gen QWIP on the Su-57, AFAIK, both USA and PRC are still at test levels with nothing having been integrated, thus it may have changed now...
In other terms, if F-22 has to fight a Su-57, Su-30, Su-35, J-20, etc, once combined to the fact that AMRAAM's no escape zone (NEZ) is of less than 30km, F-22 may face a serious issue : Jammin an AMRAAM as well as dodging it is no issue, as India has proven it when PAF launched at least 4 AMRAAMs against a Su-30MKI in Feb 2019...
Even now F-22 receives an IRST pod under the outerwing weapon station, J-20 may be a big problem...
Therefore, F-22 would also need the OSF-IT, the Meteor LRAAM and even the MICA-NG which its 80km NEZ to secure its air dominance over the J-20 and Su-57...




In an ideal world, I'd replace the F-22's two F119 by three Safran M88/115kN : F-119 is 120cm diameter for 516cm long and 1800kg... M88 is 363cm long for 69.6cm diameter and 897kg... Three in 115kN version would be only 210cm in width instead of 240cm for two F119, 2700kg instead of 3600kg, 300kN dry thrust instead of 232kN, 345kN afterburner instead of 312kN and it would free 5.78m³ for more internal fuel, moreover,the M88's exhaust is stealth, has very serious IR-signature reduction and can be made with 3D vectored thrust, then, thanks to M88, Rafale's hourly cost is the half of F-16 or Super-Hornet... Even if the more powerful version would cost more per engine, it would lower the F-22 hourly cost to no more than $24,000
But the great thing is that thanks to M88, Rafale can do 6 sorties per 24h in normal use and 11 sorties in intensive use while, thanks to coating, F-22 can barely fly 50 minutes a day...

During the Atlantic Trident 2017 press conference, the F-22 pilot declared that the Rafale was on par with his horse while an USAF general and former F-22 pilot who was offered a ride was absolutely delighted. French are also very impressed by F-22 which is an absolute beast, for sure, when they do joint missions, most of the time, as it's long range stuff, Rafale carries large subsonic drop tanks, then pilots tell to themselves "oh, the Yankees are late" then suddenly, see the 22s arriving at Mach1.8 in supercruise, each dropping its 2 JDAMs on time while each Rafale drops its 6 "Magic bombs" (that's how they call he AASM HAMMER at the SHAPE), but, at the same time, w.o. cost cutting, fit the Rafale with 2x100kN of dry thrust, even with the 2 1250L drop tanks and the CFTs Rafale would be able of a Mach2 supercruise with more AAMs than F-22 can carry: when Dassault says Mach1.8 with the two 75kN engines, it's with 3 supersonic drop-tanks and AAMs and it's still able of a Mach1.4 supercruise with 2x 50 kN, you also won't see a F-22 with SCALP-EG, or a Mach3 nuclear cruise missile, there is also no Apache ALCM capable of ruining 400m of a runway's foundations about 400-500km behind enemy lines.

Just dig this : during the Atlantic trident drills, F-22 and Rafale enter first, the F-35 and Typhoon follow. USAF says F-35 has to be protected by F-22, Typhoon or Rafale, UK MoD says F-35 needs to be protected by Typhoon and when you know how poorly Typhoon performed against Rafale as well as the highly upgraded Indian Su-30MKI,while USAF's Ar Combat Command head declared "If we don't keep F-22, F-35 will be irrelevant, F-35 is NOT an air superiority platform".
General Dynamics and Boeing have created a freaking monster with F-22, unfortunately, Lockheed-Martin took over, so F-22 has been deliberately made overexpensive with astronomical costs of use and they did the same with the F-35 which, at the start, was supposed to be a cost effective strike aircraft to complement a fleet of 750 F-22... With the idiot congressman that managed to ban the F-22's exports, then Obongo who ordered the destruction of the tooling.
USAF has packed money to use F-16 until 2048, is buying F-15EX while cutting on F-35 orders and maintenance and general Brown has already warned :
*The Air Force Isn't Dominant Anymore ... Says Air Force Chief of Staff*
With F-35 economics being a disaster, the GAO warned, a few years ago, that the full program will cost $1.3 trillion more than planned, and the planned cost was already soaring at $1.65 trillion...
The NGAD is said as costing even more than the F-22, well, the only way to keep USAF relevance, and the USN and USMC too,
Replacing every F-15, F-16, F-18, A-10, AV-8B and even F-35 and F-22 in service today with Rafale would be way way much cheaper : the lifelong cost of a F-35 over 50 years is close to $1bn, purchase included, the lifelong cost of a Rafale is not even the quarter, and, in terms of operational capability, it does the job of three F-16s... Considering the low costs of use compared to legacy 4th and 5th gen fighters, the 5.5th gen Rafale is likely, if generalised, to cut about 65% of the annual cost of use of the "shooters" fleets, thus allowing to buy and use the NGAD in numbers, moreover, the NGAD would profit from technologies that are not available in the USA now since these were dev'd by the French and, as Linus Torvalds declared :




And, considering the numbers of autocrats and wanna be tyrants waiting for any US weakness on the corner, with 13 inches nails planted through their baseball bats...
Some DoD SPOX declared : "in the future, we'll need more and more weapons systems designs from our European allies"... Like it or not, but if you still didn't got that your MIC has became a bunch of scammers, especially LM, and I wouldn't be too surprised if the AIM-260 ends inferior to the Meteor because the more LM uses of words like outstanding, second to none, overwhelming, etc etc, the more it's subpar overexpensive shit...

When a journo asked Marcel Dassault : _"So you're making the Rafale for France?"_, M.D. answered :_ "No, I make Rafale for the world!"_

Now, if USA wants its air forces to be bounced by S-400, S-500, J-20, J-31, Su-57 and Su-75, go on with NIH syndrome and Murican exceptionalism : F-35 is the recipe for defeat. Once France reaches the full complement of 225 Rafales, it's enough to enforce air superiority in case of a PRC + Russia coalition attacking the E.U. as well as suppressing their air defences or doing deep penetration raids...
Just the fact that F-22 and F-35 need costly special hangars and that the standard S-400 [degraded] *export* [AKA "monkey model", yup, this expression they use since the Soviet-era is absolutely racist] radar can engage them from 150km = AGM-88 HARM's range, but there are bigger issues ; passive radars won't be spotted so easily, even a small fishing boat or a buoy can be equipped, detect your F-35 from 100km and provide targetting to long range SAMs. Ukraine builds passive radars since the Soviet-era, that's why Russia has serious air-superiority issues there.



RoadAmerica said:


> Oh and I scanned the rest, pretty much a blame America paragraph.


If you want to imply into French bashing, be ready to be lectured more harshly by daddy.
If the USA were n Europe, you wouldn't be allowed to enter the EU on human rights violations grounds (death penalty, Gitmo), and corruption grounds (corporate funding of electoral campaigns = legalized corruption), you know, when you need to threaten Norwegian PM with "degraded relations with the United States" if Norway doesn't buys the F-35 which they absolutely don't need, don't be surprised if you get US-bashing from allies... BTW, remember Dubya's French bashing campaign which lasted for years? Yesterday, I spotted my first Ford car into 6 months... Yup, French stopped buying Ford motorcars as retaliation (as well as Harley-Davidsons). The Ford factory in Germany went bankrupt and a French car-maker bought it for peanuts. We also bounced General Motors from the EU market (Opel/Vauxhall is ours) and guess who took over Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep and Ram trucks? The Peugeot/Citroên-Fiat consortium...
I think we should consider an aggressive takeover on Lockheed-Martin, any way they're a disgrace for the profession, if BAe wasn't the most crooked company in the industry, thanks to Brit law protecting them in case of briberies as long they don't pay baksheesh/kickbacks in the UK, LM would. Maybe should we help Bashar a shooting down a F-35... As Mayer Lansky used to say : _"Nothing personal, it's just business"_

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## Nuclear Clown

jamahir said:


> Also to mention George Bushes, B'liar, Obomba, Camoron, Sarkozy, Killary Kill-in-tons and co.


Two bads don't make a good and none did anything of the scale Putin is doing, this is similar as if Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was ruling Russia.



jamahir said:


> What of them ? They are as much genociders, war criminals and regime changers as the Bushes and B'liar.
> 
> 
> 
> You worry about the flood of Russian radiation that can come to your gatherings of "Brothers" Dawah Man and Muhammad Hijab.
> 
> 
> 
> Failed state Russia ? You never replied to this post of mine on "highest living standards" Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> Who are your people ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 90 nm is fine ATM. I suppose Mikron supplies to Russian space, research, government and military applications where reliability is critical.

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## Nuclear Clown

K_Bin_W said:


> Is this under UKr or Russian control? There are too many claims and counterclaims.


Mariupol fell to the ruSSian Waffen-ZZ a few weeks ago, they're now exporting stuff they looted!


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## Nuclear Clown

MajesticPug said:


> For the record, China did not support Kim's invasion into SKorea. Mao at the time was focused on 'resolving' Taiwan (unify Taiwan). Kim's blunt adventure caught Mao unprepared and cornered him into deciding to help N Korea when Kim's forces were getting beat badly and N Korea as a buffer being eliminated. Soon after Chinese forces entered the Korea theatre, US 7th Fleet patrolled the Taiwan Strait and basically stopped Mao's plan to unify Taiwan.


Kim acted under Staln's orders, it was the Red Army that kicked the Japs out, but the invasion was done with Mao's blessing...


MajesticPug said:


> Mao at the time was focused on 'resolving' Taiwan (unify Taiwan). .../...Soon after Chinese forces entered the Korea theatre, US 7th Fleet patrolled the Taiwan Strait and basically stopped Mao's plan to unify Taiwan.












Stalin was Mao's Puppet master. Without his interference, China would be a democracy, not a totalitarian state today.
Unifying China is very simple : adopt Taiwan's constitution on the mainland... 
No need to fire a single bullet...
But that's not what the fake commies -which in fact are fascists- in power in Beijing want...
This proves how they are politically weak : if they weren't ruling by coercion, NOBODY would be interested by voting for them... Just think about this : who wants to migrate to Russia or PRC? 
At the contrary, I know a lot of migrants FROM Russia or PRC... None wants to return!!!


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## patero

Raffie said:


> That's what the* Lockheed troll factory says*, not understanding that the *F-22's first generation stealth was obsolete when the F-22 was introduced* in 2005 since *Rafale introduced the 2nd generation stealth* while still in IOC = before 2004 FOC status for Rafale-M (2006 for Rafale-C/B). During NATO drills against the Slovak S-300 (which has been given to Ukraine recently), the only NATO aircraft that was left unharmed was Rafale, even when overflying the battery. And, since all NATO aircraft have been tested, this implies that F-35, F-22, F-117 and B-2 impaled themselves on S-300 (would have made more sense had it been a Romanian S-300 'coz Vlad the Impaler)... So, if F-35, F-22, F-117 and B-2 got busted and Rafale couldn't be detected at all, guess which is the stealthiest? Russians+Serbs helped to modernize Gaddafi's air defences : IADS on par with a fully computerized S-300 network, S-200 with solid fuel and solid-state parts, some say the old seeker was replaced by 3 modern ones: one from R-77 active radar seeker head, one R-77P/RVV-PE Passive homing (home on radar or on jamming, no great for the EA-18G Growler) and one IR seeker, probably from R-73... Bingo, even with an old OTHR around, with the 30km range of the R-73's seeker and its LOAL capability, this old cow which was long seen as only good at shooting down airliners becomes a serious issue for 5th gen aircraft, not for Rafale which is the aircraft that entered Libyan airspace first in 2011, and w.o. any cruise missile preparation. Many say that the F-35I damaged on Oct.16th 2017, on _the same day Shoigu visited Israel _and Syria launched S-200 to repel an Israeli raid, wasn't damaged by a collision with two stork, but by some of the 37,000 tungsten pellets from a V-880/5V28 missile launched by a _"Stork-200" battery_. Strange synchronicity😉
> 
> *Rafael is the Israeli maker of Iron-Dome. There is no aircraft with such a name.
> You obviously don't know about the subject. Rafale means fireburst from a machinegun or windgust.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rafale F4 spec sheath includes "REINFORCEMENT OF STEALTH"...
> You can't reinforce something that doesn't exists.
> S-400's radar can detect a F-22 or F-35 from 150km and a Rafale at F3 standard only from 35-40km, during NATO drills against S-300 batteries, the ONLY NATO aircraft left unharmed was Rafale, going as far as overflying the batteries at high altitude without ringing any alarm.
> The Rafale stealth technology can be switched ON/OFF, that's why US Patriot SAM teams at Red Flag nicknamed it "the Klingon Vessel".
> With the F4 upgrade, thanks to ONERA's 3rd gen stealth technology, Rafale can fully absorb any type of radar waves, including from UHF radars like OTHRs, while F-22 or F-35 are no more stealth in the lower S-band, and the lower the frequency, the lesser the stealth, e.g. our NOSTRADAMUS OTHR can track a B-2 in a bombing mission over Syria from France with a 5km accuracy (and at only 5km, it's not stealth for a missile AESA seeker), and B-2 is stealthier than F-22, NOSTRADAMUS won't track a Rafale F4.
> 
> The RBE-2/AESA has been upgraded and is now more powerful than the APG-77 and APG-81, morever, the Thales T/R modules are not just GaN : they introduced another element allowing each module to do the job two used on the Northrop-Grumman radars, hey, guess why Raytheon has created a joint-venture making radars with Thales: if Raytheon was able to do this stuff on its own, they would, same for GE with the CFM56 or the LEAP, and if Safran was able of GE's mass production, there'd be no CFM consortium!
> 
> Frankly, even a Super-Hornet upgraded with Rafale F3 systems would be better than F-35, in fact, I wouldn't be too surprised if the Advanced Super-Hornet demonstrator was fit with Rafale stuff : Boeing has very very good relations with Dassault : Dassault has been contracted to fully optimize Boeing's production, it's even why they could deliver the T-7 RedHawk that fast. IMHO, the F-18/ASH has not gone further due to the NIH syndrome in the Congress, c'mon, Everybody in the industry knows that F-35 is a fiasco, even USAF Chief of staff declared F-35 can't even replace the F-16. Gen Brown declared that USAF would need a "5 gen minus" aircraft, well, since there is something even better than "5 gen minus" and there's no other game in town, why not going 5.5th gen?
> We'd definitively wouldn't object Boeing starting to mass produce Rafale for the USAF, USN and USMC, you know, there's a 100kN dry thrust version of the M88, and Safran can deliver with 115kN afterburner within 18 months... Just install a ski-jump then an angled deck over sponsons on your LHDs and the America and Wasp classes can start operating Rafale-M in STOBAR config and at MTOW...
> 
> Another big advantage : with F-22 or F-35 1st gen stealth, external payloads ruin stealth, although it seems that now F-22 is being seen with a stealth drop-tank with an AMRAAM inside. Be it 2nd gen stealth up to Rafale F3R, or 3rd gen starting with Rafale F4, external payloads are no issue, so...
> View attachment 850313
> 
> Considering up to 7 Meteor BVRAAM or MICA-NG per hardpoint would be no issue for Rafale (depending on the hardpoint ratings). Even if nothing like this has ever been shown since there was no true air-to-air warfare since the Beka'a valley great turkey shooting, but there would be no technical issues preventing arming Rafale-C/B with up to 39 Meteors and 9 MICA-NG at once while the Rafale-M would be limited to 2 MICA-NG
> 
> Moreover, CFM has already considered producing the M88, in fact, the successor for the LEAP will probably be the propfan version of the M88... Thus, nonetheless Boeing is geared to produce Dassault designs, GE can produce the engines at the CFM plant and Raytheon can produce the Thales stuff...
> The 6th gen NGAD will replace F-22 but will be very expensive, the F-35 will never reach its specs sheath and it's a hangar queen with a disastrous operational capability and orbital costs of use. There's nothing F-35 can do that Rafale can't except V/STOL for F-35B, but modifying a straight deck as an angled deck was successful on the Essex-class and Rafale-M has been qualified for STOBAR use, and it's also validated for the CVNs for long...
> 
> View attachment 850291
> 
> View attachment 850294
> 
> So, it's simply time to pull the plug unless you want to lose your military dominance, especially in the Pacific Ocean...
> Therefore... As well as the Zumwalt-class ended being a fiasco and now US-Navy mass orders the Italo-French FREMM stealth frigates, it's time to do the same thing with F-35 that USAF did with the F-104 (stopped the purchases after about 500 units which were later re-sold if not given (and BTW, the F-104 won the NATO competition over Mirage-III thanks to briberies and DoS pressures. F-104 was a pure turd, Mirage-III is still the #1 MiG-eater today) and USMC/USN with the XFV-12 which was replaced by an English aircraft, the Harrier
> View attachment 850295
> 
> View attachment 850296
> 
> 
> *Comparing Rafale to F-22 is impossible, it's like comparing apples and oranges!!! F-22 is a real monster with 312kN of thrust... *
> But... F-22 would greatly profit from being upgraded using more advanced Rafale's technologies!
> - Rafale's radar absorbent skin material doesn't needs any recoating...
> Instead of needing 28 hours of recoating per flight hour, thanks to the new LM coating (the previous one needed 32 hours/fly hour, source : AviationWeek/LM-communiqué), F-22 would start to fly as much as an F-15 and no more $69k/hour
> - F-22 is not stealth at all against radars with frequencies under 3 GHz... You barely don't have a single air defense radar sold today operating over 2.9GHz moreover, with the numerous passive radars, F-22's stealth is obsolete... Use Rafale's SPECTRA with the new 3rd gen stealth, problem solved!!!
> - OSF-IT is not an IRST, it's a 2nd gen QWIP, and 3rd gen will be installed on Rafale F4.2. This tech is also used for DDM-NG (MAWS+EODAS), TALIOS and AREOS. OSF-IT specs are classified, but the 25y old OSF "1" specs have leaked : it could lock-on a subsonic F-22 from 90-155km and a Mach 1.8 one from 270-455km... Even without upgrades, do datafusion with a 1st gen EODAS and targetting pod, you'd get a multi-miror telescope effect...
> Sorry, but when it comes to electro-optcs, USA are even far behind Russia which is #2, the F-35's IRST is far under the OLS-35 on 20+ years old Su-30... Russia already fields a 1st gen QWIP on the Su-57, AFAIK, both USA and PRC are still at test levels with nothing having been integrated, thus it may have changed now...
> In other terms, if F-22 has to fight a Su-57, Su-30, Su-35, J-20, etc, once combined to the fact that AMRAAM's no escape zone (NEZ) is of less than 30km, F-22 may face a serious issue : Jammin an AMRAAM as well as dodging it is no issue, as India has proven it when PAF launched at least 4 AMRAAMs against a Su-30MKI in Feb 2019...
> Even now F-22 receives an IRST pod under the outerwing weapon station, J-20 may be a big problem...
> Therefore, F-22 would also need the OSF-IT, the Meteor LRAAM and even the MICA-NG which its 80km NEZ to secure its air dominance over the J-20 and Su-57...
> View attachment 850336
> 
> In an ideal world, I'd replace the F-22's two F119 by three Safran M88/115kN : F-119 is 120cm diameter for 516cm long and 1800kg... M88 is 363cm long for 69.6cm diameter and 897kg... Three in 115kN version would be only 210cm in width instead of 240cm for two F119, 2700kg instead of 3600kg, 300kN dry thrust instead of 232kN, 345kN afterburner instead of 312kN and it would free 5.78m³ for more internal fuel, moreover,the M88's exhaust is stealth, has very serious IR-signature reduction and can be made with 3D vectored thrust, then, thanks to M88, Rafale's hourly cost is the half of F-16 or Super-Hornet... Even if the more powerful version would cost more per engine, it would lower the F-22 hourly cost to no more than $24,000
> But the great thing is that thanks to M88, Rafale can do 6 sorties per 24h in normal use and 11 sorties in intensive use while, thanks to coating, F-22 can barely fly 50 minutes a day...
> 
> During the Atlantic Trident 2017 press conference, the F-22 pilot declared that the Rafale was on par with his horse while an USAF general and former F-22 pilot who was offered a ride was absolutely delighted. French are also very impressed by F-22 which is an absolute beast, for sure, when they do joint missions, most of the time, as it's long range stuff, Rafale carries large subsonic drop tanks, then pilots tell to themselves "oh, the Yankees are late" then suddenly, see the 22s arriving at Mach1.8 in supercruise, each dropping its 2 JDAMs on time while each Rafale drops its 6 "Magic bombs" (that's how they call he AASM HAMMER at the SHAPE), but, at the same time, w.o. cost cutting, fit the Rafale with 2x100kN of dry thrust, even with the 2 1250L drop tanks and the CFTs Rafale would be able of a Mach2 supercruise with more AAMs than F-22 can carry: when Dassault says Mach1.8 with the two 75kN engines, it's with 3 supersonic drop-tanks and AAMs and it's still able of a Mach1.4 supercruise with 2x 50 kN, you also won't see a F-22 with SCALP-EG, or a Mach3 nuclear cruise missile, there is also no Apache ALCM capable of ruining 400m of a runway's foundations about 400-500km behind enemy lines.
> 
> Just dig this : during the Atlantic trident drills, F-22 and Rafale enter first, the F-35 and Typhoon follow. USAF says F-35 has to be protected by F-22, Typhoon or Rafale, UK MoD says F-35 needs to be protected by Typhoon and when you know how poorly Typhoon performed against Rafale as well as the highly upgraded Indian Su-30MKI,while USAF's Ar Combat Command head declared "If we don't keep F-22, F-35 will be irrelevant, F-35 is NOT an air superiority platform".
> General Dynamics and Boeing have created a freaking monster with F-22, unfortunately, Lockheed-Martin took over, so F-22 has been deliberately made overexpensive with astronomical costs of use and they did the same with the F-35 which, at the start, was supposed to be a cost effective strike aircraft to complement a fleet of 750 F-22... With the idiot congressman that managed to ban the F-22's exports, then Obongo who ordered the destruction of the tooling.
> USAF has packed money to use F-16 until 2048, is buying F-15EX while cutting on F-35 orders and maintenance and general Brown has already warned :
> *The Air Force Isn't Dominant Anymore ... Says Air Force Chief of Staff*
> With F-35 economics being a disaster, the GAO warned, a few years ago, that the full program will cost $1.3 trillion more than planned, and the planned cost was already soaring at $1.65 trillion...
> The NGAD is said as costing even more than the F-22, well, the only way to keep USAF relevance, and the USN and USMC too,
> Replacing every F-15, F-16, F-18, A-10, AV-8B and even F-35 and F-22 in service today with Rafale would be way way much cheaper : the lifelong cost of a F-35 over 50 years is close to $1bn, purchase included, the lifelong cost of a Rafale is not even the quarter, and, in terms of operational capability, it does the job of three F-16s... Considering the low costs of use compared to legacy 4th and 5th gen fighters, the 5.5th gen Rafale is likely, if generalised, to cut about 65% of the annual cost of use of the "shooters" fleets, thus allowing to buy and use the NGAD in numbers, moreover, the NGAD would profit from technologies that are not available in the USA now since these were dev'd by the French and, as Linus Torvalds declared :
> View attachment 850371
> 
> And, considering the numbers of autocrats and wanna be tyrants waiting for any US weakness on the corner, with 13 inches nails planted through their baseball bats...
> Some DoD SPOX declared : "in the future, we'll need more and more weapons systems designs from our European allies"... Like it or not, but if you still didn't got that your MIC has became a bunch of scammers, especially LM, and I wouldn't be too surprised if the AIM-260 ends inferior to the Meteor because the more LM uses of words like outstanding, second to none, overwhelming, etc etc, the more it's subpar overexpensive shit...
> 
> When a journo asked Marcel Dassault : _"So you're making the Rafale for France?"_, M.D. answered :_ "No, I make Rafale for the world!"_
> 
> Now, if USA wants its air forces to be bounced by S-400, S-500, J-20, J-31, Su-57 and Su-75, go on with NIH syndrome and Murican exceptionalism : F-35 is the recipe for defeat. Once France reaches the full complement of 225 Rafales, it's enough to enforce air superiority in case of a PRC + Russia coalition attacking the E.U. as well as suppressing their air defences or doing deep penetration raids...
> Just the fact that F-22 and F-35 need costly special hangars and that the standard S-400 [degraded] *export* [AKA "monkey model", yup, this expression they use since the Soviet-era is absolutely racist] radar can engage them from 150km = AGM-88 HARM's range, but there are bigger issues ; passive radars won't be spotted so easily, even a small fishing boat or a buoy can be equipped, detect your F-35 from 100km and provide targetting to long range SAMs. Ukraine builds passive radars since the Soviet-era, that's why Russia has serious air-superiority issues there.
> 
> 
> If you want to imply into French bashing, be ready to be lectured more harshly by daddy.
> If the USA were n Europe, you wouldn't be allowed to enter the EU on human rights violations grounds (death penalty, Gitmo), and corruption grounds (corporate funding of electoral campaigns = legalized corruption), you know, when you need to threaten Norwegian PM with "degraded relations with the United States" if Norway doesn't buys the F-35 which they absolutely don't need, don't be surprised if you get US-bashing from allies... BTW, remember Dubya's French bashing campaign which lasted for years? Yesterday, I spotted my first Ford car into 6 months... Yup, French stopped buying Ford motorcars as retaliation (as well as Harley-Davidsons). The Ford factory in Germany went bankrupt and a French car-maker bought it for peanuts. We also bounced General Motors from the EU market (Opel/Vauxhall is ours) and guess who took over Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep and Ram trucks? The Peugeot/Citroên-Fiat consortium...
> I think we should consider an aggressive takeover on Lockheed-Martin, any way they're a disgrace for the profession, if BAe wasn't the most crooked company in the industry, thanks to Brit law protecting them in case of briberies as long they don't pay baksheesh/kickbacks in the UK, LM would. Maybe should we help Bashar a shooting down a F-35... As Mayer Lansky used to say : _"Nothing personal, it's just business"_


You're cluttering up the thread with your pro-france anti-everything else posts, the anti US stuff is just baffling. Time for the ignore option I'm afraid.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532437670328160257

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532437294849871879

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532435304694566916

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532411303934959616

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532364024918179847

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532362822910369792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532358653935771648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532355639569178624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532354130085298176


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532420361639317507

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532374370273968132

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532301615536947202

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532003028873711617


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## The SC

Military report on 5/31:

Source: American Institute for the Study of War


1. Moscow is concentrating its efforts to seize Severodonetsk and Donbass in general by creating vulnerabilities for Russia to exploit in Ukraine's vital Kherson region, where Ukrainian counterattacks continue.

2. Kherson is a sensitive area because it is the only region in Ukraine where Russian forces control the western bank of the Dnipro River.

• If Russia can maintain a strong position in Kherson when the fighting stops, it will be in a very strong position to launch an invasion in the future.

3. If Ukraine retakes Kherson, on the other hand, Ukraine will be in a much stronger position to defend itself against any future Russian attack.

4. These strategic calculations should, in principle, lead Russia to allocate sufficient fighting force to hold Kherson. But the Russian president chose instead to concentrate all forces and resources that could be brought together in a desperate and bloody attempt to seize territories in eastern Ukraine that would give him largely symbolic gains.

5. The Ukrainian leadership has apparently wisely avoided matching Putin's wrong order of priorities. Kyiv could have allocated more reserves and resources to defending Severodonetsk, and its failure to do so drew criticism.

6. It appears that the Ukrainian forces are now withdrawing from Severodonetsk rather than fighting to the end. A factor that allowed the Russians to move into the city relatively quickly after the start of their all-out offensive.

7. The decision to avoid allocating more resources to the rescue of Severodonetsk and the decision to withdraw from it was strategically sound. Ukraine should make more use of its limited resources and focus on restoring strategic areas rather than defending territory whose control will not be determined by the outcome of the war or the conditions for renewed war.

8. The proper Ukrainian prioritization of offensive and counter-defensive operations almost pushed the Russians out of artillery range of Kharkiv and halted the Russian advance from Izyum, both of the most important achievements of the Severodonetsk defense.

9. The Ukrainian leadership had to make very difficult choices in this war and made the right choices in general, at least at the level of strategic priorities and in the pace, scope and ambition of its counterattacks.

10 Russian citizens continued a series of attacks on Russian military recruitment centers in late May, likely in protest of the clandestine mobilization.

11. Russian forces were increasingly focused on advancing into Slavyansk from southeast Izyum and west of Lyman.

• Russian forces are making progress in and around Severodonetsk.


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## khansaheeb

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532187062677516290


Surprised the Russians didn't do that at the beginning of the war. Without securing the borders from infiltrations of weapons the Russians allowed the war to deepen and the resistance to stiffen. I was expecting the Russians to attack Ukraine from Belarus to secure the Polish border but the Russians instead did a fake assault on Kiev to draw Ukrainian for the real battle for the East.

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 2​Jun 2, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF
*
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, June 2
Karolina Hird, Kateryna Stepanenko, Mason Clark, and George Barros
June 2, 6:15pm ET*​*Russian forces continued to make incremental, grinding, and costly progress in eastern Ukraine on June 2. *Russian troops continued operations to capture Severodonetsk and further operations to capture Lysychansk. Russian military leadership will likely use the capture of these two cities to claim they have “liberated” all of Luhansk Oblast before turning to Donetsk Oblast but Russian forces are unlikely to have the forces necessary to take substantial territory in Donetsk Oblast after suffering further losses around Severodonetsk. Russian forces are evidently limited by terrain in the Donbas and will continue to face challenges crossing the Siverskyi Donets River to complete the encirclement of Severodonetsk-Lysychansk and make further advances westward of Lyman towards Slovyansk via Raihorodok.[1]
*Russian military leadership continues to experience complications with sufficient force generation and maintaining the morale of mobilized personnel.* The Ukrainian General Staff reported that the Donetsk People’s Republic’s (DNR) 1st Army Corps, under Russia’s 8th Combined Arms Army, is conducting forced mobilization in occupied areas of Donetsk Oblast.[2] Russian forced mobilization is highly unlikely to generate meaningful combat power and will exacerbate low morale and poor discipline in Russian and proxy units. The 113th Regiment of the DNR posted a video appeal to Russian President Vladimir Putin on June 2 wherein forcibly-mobilized soldiers complain they have spent the entire war on the frontline in Kherson without food or medicine, and that mobilization committees did not conduct requisite medical screenings and admitted individuals whose medical conditions should have disqualified them from service.[3] Ukraine’s Main Intelligence Directorate additionally released an intercepted phone conversation wherein DNR soldiers similarly complained that physically unfit individuals were forced into service and that mobilized units are experiencing mass drunkenness and general disorder.[4] Russian forces are additionally struggling to successfully rotate servicemen in and out of combat. Spokesperson for the Odesa Military Administration Maksym Marchenko stated that 30 to 40% of Russian personnel that rotated out of Ukraine refused to return, forcing Russian commanders to send unprepared and unmotivated units back into combat.[5] This is consistent with complaints made by DNR servicemen that rotation practices are contributing to poor morale and dissatisfaction within units that have been forcibly mobilized.[6]
*Russian occupation authorities continue to face challenges establishing permanent societal control in newly occupied Ukrainian territories. *The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported that Russian occupational administrations “are [only] created on paper” and are incapable of controlling local populations, enforcing the use of the Russian ruble, or conducting bureaucratic processes.[7] The Ukrainian Resistance Center noted that Ukrainian civilians welcome partisan activity that systematically sabotages Russian occupation rule.
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian operations to advance on Slovyansk from the southeast of Izyum and west of Lyman continue to make little progress and are unlikely to do so in the coming days, as Russian forces continue to prioritize Severodonetsk at the expense of other axes of advance.*
*Russian forces continued assaults against Severodonetsk and Lysychansk in order to claim full control of Luhansk Oblast.*
*Russian forces made incremental advances around Avdiivka.*
*Ukrainian counteroffensives in northwestern Kherson Oblast pushed Russian forces to the eastern bank of the Inhulets River and will likely continue to disrupt Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) along the T2207 highway.*
*The Kremlin continued to pursue inconsistent occupational measures in southern Ukraine, indicating both widespread Ukrainian resistance and likely Kremlin indecision on how to integrate occupied territory.*
*



We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.
ISW has updated its assessment of the four primary efforts Russian forces are engaged in at this time. We have stopped coverage of Mariupol as a separate effort since the city’s fall. We had added a new section on activities in Russian-occupied areas:*

Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate main effort- Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
Supporting effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting effort 2—Southern axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces conducted limited unsuccessful attacks and continued efforts to resume larger-scale offensives southeast of Izyum towards Slovyansk on June 2. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces focused on maintaining their current positions southeast of Izyum and shelled Dovhenke, Kurulka, Virnopillya, and Dolyna in order to set conditions to renew offensive operations towards Slovyansk.[8] Russian forces additionally conducted unsuccessful assault operations around Studenok, Sosnove, Svyatohirsk, and Yarova, several settlements southeast of Izyum along roadways connecting to the Izyum-Slovyansk highway near the Kharkiv-Donetsk Oblast border.[9] Russian troops likely seek to capture this highway to exploit road access to support advances on Slovyansk. Russian forces in the Lyman reportedly attempted an additional, unsuccessful assault on Raihorodok, northeast of Slovyansk.[10]Russian forces attempting to advance on Slovyansk from both Izyum and Lyman remain largely stalled and are unlikely to make significant progress in the coming days, particularly as the majority of Russian forces continue to focus on Severodonetsk.
Russian forces continued ground assaults in and around Severodonetsk on June 2.[11] Head of the Luhansk People‘s Republic (LNR) Leonid Pasechnik claimed that the LNR controls all of Luhansk Oblast except for Severodonetsk and Lysychansk.[12] Deputy Chief of the Main Operations Department of the Ukrainian General Staff Oleksiy Gromov notably stated that despite Russian efforts to surround Severodonetsk, Ukrainian troops do not need to fully withdraw from the city.[13] Russian forces conducted unsuccessful ground attacks to the south of Severodonetsk-Lysychansk in Bobrove and Ustynivka.[14] The UK Ministry of Defense stated that Russian forces will likely be inhibited in their attempt to advance into Lysychansk from Severodonetsk (if they are first able to capture Severodonetsk itself) due to the tactical challenge of crossing the Siverskyi Donets River.[15] The UK Ministry of Defense additionally noted that Russian forces will likely need a brief tactical pause to prepare for subsequent attempts to cross the Siverskyi Donets River if they intend further operations into Luhansk and Donetsk Oblasts. [16]
Russian forces continued ground, rocket, and artillery strikes around Donetsk Oblast on June 2.[17] Russian forces continued offensive operations to the east of Bakhmut around Komyshuvakha, Mykailivka, Vrubivka, Berestove, Bilohorivka, Svitlodarsk, and Nahirne in order to cut ground lines of communication (GLOCs) northeast of Bakhmut and support continuing but slow-moving operations to encircle Severodonetsk-Lysychansk from the south.[18] The DNR claimed that the Russian grouping in the Donetsk City-Avdiivka area made incremental gains around Avdiivka and reportedly broke through Ukrainian defenses in Verkhnotoreske, though ISW cannot independently confirm this claim.[19]







*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces conducted rocket and artillery strikes on Kharkiv City and northern Kharkiv Oblast on June 2.[20] Russian forces shelled residential districts of Kharkiv City, Tsyrkuny, Chuhuiv, Prudyanka, and Mykhailivka in an attempt to maintain their positions to the north of Kharkiv City.[21] A Russian Telegram channel claimed that clashes between Russian and Ukrainian troops occurred in Vesele and Tsupivka, both north of Kharkiv City, indicating that local fighting continues along the frontline in northern Kharkiv Oblast.[22]




*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporozhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Ukrainian counteroffensives in northwestern Kherson Oblast likely pushed Russian forces back to their established defensive positions on the eastern bank of the Inhulets River on June 2. Geolocated drone footage confirms Ukrainian forces conducted a counteroffensive near Starosillya, a settlement on the eastern bank of the Inhulets River and just 12 kilometers south of the northernmost area of Russian control.[23] Kherson Oblast Military Administration Head Hannadiy Lahuta reported that Ukrainian forces liberated 20 unnamed villages in Kherson Oblast, likely referring to the settlements on the western bank of the Inhulets River.[24] ISW cannot independently confirm these territorial changes at this time, but Ukrainian defenders have likely secured the western Ihululets riverbank. Ukrainian forces on the west bank of the Ihulets River are likely able to fire on and disrupt Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) that stretch along the T2207 highway within a kilometer of the river.[25]
Russian forces are taking measures to hinder further Ukrainian counteroffensives on the western Kherson-Mykaloiv Oblast border. The Ukrainian Southern Operational Command reported that Ukrainian forces are planning a counteroffensive in Mykolaiv Oblast and engaged in heavy battles with Russian forces in the Oblast on June 2.[26] Russian military Telegram channel Rybar claimed that Ukrainian forces will attempt to liberate Snihurivka, approximately 66 kilometers east of Mykolaiv City.[27] Russian forces conducted a missile strike on a railway bridge northwest of Mykolaiv City likely to preempt the transfer of Ukrainian forces and equipment in the area.[28] Russian occupation authorities continued to cut off telecommunications signals in Zaporizhia and Kherson Oblasts, and Ukrainian officials speculated that Russian forces fear Ukrainian counteroffensives and partisan activity in occupied settlements and seek to limit Ukrainian communications.[29]




*Activity in Russian-occupied areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
The Kremlin continues to send mixed signals about its plans to integrate occupied Ukrainian territories – likely indicating the Kremlin has not decided on a single course of action. Kremlin Spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said that a referendum to integrate Donbas to Russia is “hardly possible” without fully ensuring security in the region, but did not specify what the Kremlin would consider “ensuring security.”[30] Leader of the “Fair Russia” Party (part of the pro-Kremlin “systemic opposition” of parties not directly affiliated with Putin’s United Russia party but not posing any real opposition) Sergei Mironov said that any Ukrainian Oblast may join Russia, likely in support of other claims by Russian State Duma members that the Kremlin will annex Kherson, Donetsk, and Luhansk Oblast as soon as July.[31] Russian Senator Andrey Turchak announced the opening of a United Russia ”humanitarian center” in Kherson City and claimed to have negotiated industrial cooperation agreements between Kherson Oblast and Russia, but exact Russian plans for occupied Kherson remain unclear.[32] Russian-backed occupation authorities in Zaporizhia also announced the “nationalization” of Ukrainian state property, including the Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant (NPP), which could suggest that the Kremlin seeks to economically exploit newly occupied territories with or without direct annexation.[33] Russian Deputy Prime Minister Marat Khusnullin previously stated that the Zaporizhia NPP will exclusively work for Russia and will sell electricity to Ukraine.[34] Ukrainian state energy company “Energoatom” noted that Russia physically cannot export electricity from the Zaporizhia NPP as Russia is not connected to the Ukrainian or European energy grid.[35]
The fate of the Mariupol defenders taken prisoner by Russian forces remains unclear. Ukrainian Deputy Defense Minister Hanna Malyar reported that Ukrainian officials are discussing prisoner exchanges with Russian forces, but refused to comment on the status of the negotiations.[36] Russian sources claimed that members of the Ukrainian Azov Regiment are imprisoned in Olenivka, approximately 22 kilometers from Donetsk City.[


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532486530626895872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532505440516440067

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532480134170697734

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532479641654550534

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532496390139613189

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532508937429319686


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532505440516440067


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## K_Bin_W

What happened to US-supplied howitzers? There are videos on youtube Russia destroyed all of them..

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## jhungary

__





‘Unbelievable’: Turkey gives Lithuanian crowdfunders free drone for Ukraine






www.msn.com







K_Bin_W said:


> What happened to US-supplied howitzers? There are videos on youtube Russia destroyed all of them..


Nothing happened to them, Russian destroyed them maybe in their dream. There are new video of Ukrainian using M777 on youtube everyday,

The "Video" you refer to does not show M777, it show a D-30 unit was attacked and probably damaged or destroyed by Russian Drone. The video show the artillery unit have 2 ballistic shield on the side of the cramper, M777 does not use ballistic shield, also the unit that was attacked does not seems to have muzzle brake on the barrel, which M777 have. I have already made a post and freeze frame that video and explain why that is a disinformation on another post.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532487491101642753

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532487928198332416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532487241259438080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532466462803247104

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532505309205389312


K_Bin_W said:


> What happened to US-supplied howitzers? There are videos on youtube Russia destroyed all of them..




I’ve not seen any videos or photos of M777 being destroyed.

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## RoadAmerica

khansaheeb said:


> What if China sends arms and sends men to keep Europe on the defensive, it would create a new world order not imaginable decade ago and put the world in turmoil. NATO would collapse with a domino effect causing the 3 nuke powers US, UK and France to be at the cross roads of what to do. Millions of European Refugees could head to Africa for safety.


Nato would collapse 🤣
You forget China has been copying Russia junk for decades also will they just march on over?
Oh and China would be cut off from the west just like Russia.
Back in the real world


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## K_Bin_W

jhungary said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Unbelievable’: Turkey gives Lithuanian crowdfunders free drone for Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing happened to them, Russian destroyed them maybe in their dream. There are new video of Ukrainian using M777 on youtube everyday,
> 
> The "Video" you refer to does not show M777, it show a D-30 unit was attacked and probably damaged or destroyed by Russian Drone. The video show the artillery unit have 2 ballistic shield on the side of the cramper, M777 does not use ballistic shield, also the unit that was attacked does not seems to have muzzle brake on the barrel, which M777 have. I have already made a post and freeze frame that video and explain why that is a disinformation on another post.


There are so many claims and counterclaims it's hard to separate fact from fiction. Ukraine is basically destroyed I feel sorry for Ukranian people.

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## RoadAmerica

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532065666714308608
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532064593878876160
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531846911640076288


More drills 🥱


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532445614423871488


----------



## Meengla

Per a statement by Zelenskyy today: About 20% of Ukraine is occupied by Russia now!

And that 20% has mainly pro Russia population and a lot of Ukraine's economic potentials. IF Russia consolidates its gains in the east and south and takes Odessa and cuts off Ukraine from the sea then it will be a huge strategic victory. And that maybe the 3rd phase of the Russian offensive. And I don't think Howitzers or guided artillery is going to make enough difference once Russia uses natural boundaries like rivers to consolidates its gains, resupplies, and uses its own artillery and airpower to destroy anything Ukraine would have in the vicinity of Russian military.

Wars are not fought and won on Twitter. If they were then the so-called boastful Lion of Panjshir Masood Jr. would have fended off the Taliban after August 2021; we saw how much support he had in the media but all that came to nothing.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RoadAmerica

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Trump ordered a cruise missile attack on Syria, and a drone attack on an Iranian general, and Iran replied with a missile attack on a US base.
> The US President cannot declare war, but Trump certainly ordered acts of war.
> He tried to start wars, and failed…


Yeh those aren’t wars no matter how you slice it……try again

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## jhungary

K_Bin_W said:


> There are so many claims and counterclaims it's hard to separate fact from fiction. Ukraine is basically destroyed I feel sorry for Ukranian people.


Well, I was in Ukraine, and no, Ukraine is not basically destroy. In fact, Kyiv and Lviv is doing just fine.

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## RoadAmerica

The SC said:


> Russia restricted the export of inert gases, including neon, until the end of the year, according to a government decree. These gases include argon, helium, and others, and are actively used for the production of semiconductors.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532023198472101888


The majority of these gases don’t come from Russia 
🥱


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## jhungary

Meengla said:


> Per a statement by Zelenskyy today: About 20% of Ukraine is occupied by Russia now!
> 
> And that 20% has mainly pro Russia population and a lot of Ukraine's economic potentials. IF Russia consolidates its gains in the east and south and takes Odessa and cuts off Ukraine from the sea then it will be a huge strategic victory. And that maybe the 3rd phase of the Russian offensive. And I don't think Howitzers or guided artillery is going to make enough difference once Russia uses natural boundaries like rivers to consolidates its gains, resupplies, and uses its own artillery and airpower to destroy anything Ukraine would have in the vicinity of Russian military.
> 
> Wars are not fought and won on Twitter. If they were then the so-called boastful Lion of Panjshir Masood Jr. would have fended off the Taliban after August 2021; we saw how much support he had in the media but all that came to nothing.


It is more or less 21% actually, but 12% of those were Donbas (~7% Before when Separatist already holding) and Crimea (4%). Which mean for the entire almost 100 days war, Russian gain 9% of Ukraine conventionally, technically, they did better in that one day in 2014 then this 100 days war, this is not really anything to celebrate if you were Russian military. With how many men and equipment lost currently?

There are currently a counter offensive in Kherson which Russia is seemingly dislodged from their first defence line and now only 10 km from Kherson, not sure if Russia can stop this as they are running out of manpower in the south, given they have given the East 70% of the force (60 our of 90 BTG went to the East) Depends on the number and size of the Ukrainian push some analyst say they can make all the way to Kherson, some say they can't, I am probably more reserve and say they can't, but that would mean Odessa would be largely safe, because Russia can't attack from the sea unless there is a land route, and they need to go over and take Mykolaiv if they want that land route, not being beating back by the Ukrainian.

And in case you have not notice, Panjshir is still in fighting off Taliban even today as I type, you don't know because virtually nobody care about them now. And from the news, they are still doing pretty good job.









Fierce fighting rages in Panjshir as anti-Taliban forces hammer call for inclusive government in Afghanistan CanIndia News


New Delhi, June 2: Away from the media glare, a fierce battle is ongoing between the Taliban and Ahmad Massoud led National Resistance Force (NRF) on many fronts in Panjshir Valley and other parts of northern Afghanistan. Over the past few weeks, the armed anti-Taliban resistance has picked up...




www.canindia.com













Afghan resistance attack Taliban, sparking reprisals in Panjshir


The attack reportedly killed a number of Taliban fighters in a resistance stronghold in the north.



www.bbc.com

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## Viet

An assessment by Habeck, Germany minister of economics before the parliament

Germany industry bears the brunt. He thanks them. Putin earns big bucks by high prices of oil and gas. However he can’t spend the money. He can’t buy anything. Russia economy is collapsing. Putin can continue to run the war by giving them oil and grains however it’s not going to last long. Russia is a country nobody wants to invest.


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## jhungary

Russia has not learn from their mistake in the first month of this war. Single File, travelling thru MSR like they own them, well, that usually will get you owned instead

This happened 2 days ago in Marinka, Donbas

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532508878306410500

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532510031295414279

There are reports the Ukrainians have conducted a counter assault into Severodonetsk against unprepared Russian defenses.


----------



## Viet

Meengla said:


> Per a statement by Zelenskyy today: About 20% of Ukraine is occupied by Russia now!
> 
> And that 20% has mainly pro Russia population and a lot of Ukraine's economic potentials. IF Russia consolidates its gains in the east and south and takes Odessa and cuts off Ukraine from the sea then it will be a huge strategic victory. And that maybe the 3rd phase of the Russian offensive. And I don't think Howitzers or guided artillery is going to make enough difference once Russia uses natural boundaries like rivers to consolidates its gains, resupplies, and uses its own artillery and airpower to destroy anything Ukraine would have in the vicinity of Russian military.
> 
> Wars are not fought and won on Twitter. If they were then the so-called boastful Lion of Panjshir Masood Jr. would have fended off the Taliban after August 2021; we saw how much support he had in the media but all that came to nothing.


You should look at the other side of the coin. Russians occupy 20 percent that means Ukrainians still control 80 percent. From there Ukraine can attack the enemy until eternity. Let’s see how long this war will continue. 1 year, 10 years or 20 years. I am not military expert but it’s laughable when you think the Russians can hide behind natural boundaries.


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## RoadAmerica

Raffie said:


> That's what the* Lockheed troll factory says*, not understanding that the *F-22's first generation stealth was obsolete when the F-22 was introduced* in 2005 since *Rafale introduced the 2nd generation stealth* while still in IOC = before 2004 FOC status for Rafale-M (2006 for Rafale-C/B). During NATO drills against the Slovak S-300 (which has been given to Ukraine recently), the only NATO aircraft that was left unharmed was Rafale, even when overflying the battery. And, since all NATO aircraft have been tested, this implies that F-35, F-22, F-117 and B-2 impaled themselves on S-300 (would have made more sense had it been a Romanian S-300 'coz Vlad the Impaler)... So, if F-35, F-22, F-117 and B-2 got busted and Rafale couldn't be detected at all, guess which is the stealthiest? Russians+Serbs helped to modernize Gaddafi's air defences : IADS on par with a fully computerized S-300 network, S-200 with solid fuel and solid-state parts, some say the old seeker was replaced by 3 modern ones: one from R-77 active radar seeker head, one R-77P/RVV-PE Passive homing (home on radar or on jamming, no great for the EA-18G Growler) and one IR seeker, probably from R-73... Bingo, even with an old OTHR around, with the 30km range of the R-73's seeker and its LOAL capability, this old cow which was long seen as only good at shooting down airliners becomes a serious issue for 5th gen aircraft, not for Rafale which is the aircraft that entered Libyan airspace first in 2011, and w.o. any cruise missile preparation. Many say that the F-35I damaged on Oct.16th 2017, on _the same day Shoigu visited Israel _and Syria launched S-200 to repel an Israeli raid, wasn't damaged by a collision with two stork, but by some of the 37,000 tungsten pellets from a V-880/5V28 missile launched by a _"Stork-200" battery_. Strange synchronicity😉
> 
> *Rafael is the Israeli maker of Iron-Dome. There is no aircraft with such a name.
> You obviously don't know about the subject. Rafale means fireburst from a machinegun or windgust.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rafale F4 spec sheath includes "REINFORCEMENT OF STEALTH"...
> You can't reinforce something that doesn't exists.
> S-400's radar can detect a F-22 or F-35 from 150km and a Rafale at F3 standard only from 35-40km, during NATO drills against S-300 batteries, the ONLY NATO aircraft left unharmed was Rafale, going as far as overflying the batteries at high altitude without ringing any alarm.
> The Rafale stealth technology can be switched ON/OFF, that's why US Patriot SAM teams at Red Flag nicknamed it "the Klingon Vessel".
> With the F4 upgrade, thanks to ONERA's 3rd gen stealth technology, Rafale can fully absorb any type of radar waves, including from UHF radars like OTHRs, while F-22 or F-35 are no more stealth in the lower S-band, and the lower the frequency, the lesser the stealth, e.g. our NOSTRADAMUS OTHR can track a B-2 in a bombing mission over Syria from France with a 5km accuracy (and at only 5km, it's not stealth for a missile AESA seeker), and B-2 is stealthier than F-22, NOSTRADAMUS won't track a Rafale F4.
> 
> The RBE-2/AESA has been upgraded and is now more powerful than the APG-77 and APG-81, morever, the Thales T/R modules are not just GaN : they introduced another element allowing each module to do the job two used on the Northrop-Grumman radars, hey, guess why Raytheon has created a joint-venture making radars with Thales: if Raytheon was able to do this stuff on its own, they would, same for GE with the CFM56 or the LEAP, and if Safran was able of GE's mass production, there'd be no CFM consortium!
> 
> Frankly, even a Super-Hornet upgraded with Rafale F3 systems would be better than F-35, in fact, I wouldn't be too surprised if the Advanced Super-Hornet demonstrator was fit with Rafale stuff : Boeing has very very good relations with Dassault : Dassault has been contracted to fully optimize Boeing's production, it's even why they could deliver the T-7 RedHawk that fast. IMHO, the F-18/ASH has not gone further due to the NIH syndrome in the Congress, c'mon, Everybody in the industry knows that F-35 is a fiasco, even USAF Chief of staff declared F-35 can't even replace the F-16. Gen Brown declared that USAF would need a "5 gen minus" aircraft, well, since there is something even better than "5 gen minus" and there's no other game in town, why not going 5.5th gen?
> We'd definitively wouldn't object Boeing starting to mass produce Rafale for the USAF, USN and USMC, you know, there's a 100kN dry thrust version of the M88, and Safran can deliver with 115kN afterburner within 18 months... Just install a ski-jump then an angled deck over sponsons on your LHDs and the America and Wasp classes can start operating Rafale-M in STOBAR config and at MTOW...
> 
> Another big advantage : with F-22 or F-35 1st gen stealth, external payloads ruin stealth, although it seems that now F-22 is being seen with a stealth drop-tank with an AMRAAM inside. Be it 2nd gen stealth up to Rafale F3R, or 3rd gen starting with Rafale F4, external payloads are no issue, so...
> View attachment 850313
> 
> Considering up to 7 Meteor BVRAAM or MICA-NG per hardpoint would be no issue for Rafale (depending on the hardpoint ratings). Even if nothing like this has ever been shown since there was no true air-to-air warfare since the Beka'a valley great turkey shooting, but there would be no technical issues preventing arming Rafale-C/B with up to 39 Meteors and 9 MICA-NG at once while the Rafale-M would be limited to 2 MICA-NG
> 
> Moreover, CFM has already considered producing the M88, in fact, the successor for the LEAP will probably be the propfan version of the M88... Thus, nonetheless Boeing is geared to produce Dassault designs, GE can produce the engines at the CFM plant and Raytheon can produce the Thales stuff...
> The 6th gen NGAD will replace F-22 but will be very expensive, the F-35 will never reach its specs sheath and it's a hangar queen with a disastrous operational capability and orbital costs of use. There's nothing F-35 can do that Rafale can't except V/STOL for F-35B, but modifying a straight deck as an angled deck was successful on the Essex-class and Rafale-M has been qualified for STOBAR use, and it's also validated for the CVNs for long...
> 
> View attachment 850291
> 
> View attachment 850294
> 
> So, it's simply time to pull the plug unless you want to lose your military dominance, especially in the Pacific Ocean...
> Therefore... As well as the Zumwalt-class ended being a fiasco and now US-Navy mass orders the Italo-French FREMM stealth frigates, it's time to do the same thing with F-35 that USAF did with the F-104 (stopped the purchases after about 500 units which were later re-sold if not given (and BTW, the F-104 won the NATO competition over Mirage-III thanks to briberies and DoS pressures. F-104 was a pure turd, Mirage-III is still the #1 MiG-eater today) and USMC/USN with the XFV-12 which was replaced by an English aircraft, the Harrier
> View attachment 850295
> 
> View attachment 850296
> 
> 
> *Comparing Rafale to F-22 is impossible, it's like comparing apples and oranges!!! F-22 is a real monster with 312kN of thrust... *
> But... F-22 would greatly profit from being upgraded using more advanced Rafale's technologies!
> - Rafale's radar absorbent skin material doesn't needs any recoating...
> Instead of needing 28 hours of recoating per flight hour, thanks to the new LM coating (the previous one needed 32 hours/fly hour, source : AviationWeek/LM-communiqué), F-22 would start to fly as much as an F-15 and no more $69k/hour
> - F-22 is not stealth at all against radars with frequencies under 3 GHz... You barely don't have a single air defense radar sold today operating over 2.9GHz moreover, with the numerous passive radars, F-22's stealth is obsolete... Use Rafale's SPECTRA with the new 3rd gen stealth, problem solved!!!
> - OSF-IT is not an IRST, it's a 2nd gen QWIP, and 3rd gen will be installed on Rafale F4.2. This tech is also used for DDM-NG (MAWS+EODAS), TALIOS and AREOS. OSF-IT specs are classified, but the 25y old OSF "1" specs have leaked : it could lock-on a subsonic F-22 from 90-155km and a Mach 1.8 one from 270-455km... Even without upgrades, do datafusion with a 1st gen EODAS and targetting pod, you'd get a multi-miror telescope effect...
> Sorry, but when it comes to electro-optcs, USA are even far behind Russia which is #2, the F-35's IRST is far under the OLS-35 on 20+ years old Su-30... Russia already fields a 1st gen QWIP on the Su-57, AFAIK, both USA and PRC are still at test levels with nothing having been integrated, thus it may have changed now...
> In other terms, if F-22 has to fight a Su-57, Su-30, Su-35, J-20, etc, once combined to the fact that AMRAAM's no escape zone (NEZ) is of less than 30km, F-22 may face a serious issue : Jammin an AMRAAM as well as dodging it is no issue, as India has proven it when PAF launched at least 4 AMRAAMs against a Su-30MKI in Feb 2019...
> Even now F-22 receives an IRST pod under the outerwing weapon station, J-20 may be a big problem...
> Therefore, F-22 would also need the OSF-IT, the Meteor LRAAM and even the MICA-NG which its 80km NEZ to secure its air dominance over the J-20 and Su-57...
> View attachment 850336
> 
> In an ideal world, I'd replace the F-22's two F119 by three Safran M88/115kN : F-119 is 120cm diameter for 516cm long and 1800kg... M88 is 363cm long for 69.6cm diameter and 897kg... Three in 115kN version would be only 210cm in width instead of 240cm for two F119, 2700kg instead of 3600kg, 300kN dry thrust instead of 232kN, 345kN afterburner instead of 312kN and it would free 5.78m³ for more internal fuel, moreover,the M88's exhaust is stealth, has very serious IR-signature reduction and can be made with 3D vectored thrust, then, thanks to M88, Rafale's hourly cost is the half of F-16 or Super-Hornet... Even if the more powerful version would cost more per engine, it would lower the F-22 hourly cost to no more than $24,000
> But the great thing is that thanks to M88, Rafale can do 6 sorties per 24h in normal use and 11 sorties in intensive use while, thanks to coating, F-22 can barely fly 50 minutes a day...
> 
> During the Atlantic Trident 2017 press conference, the F-22 pilot declared that the Rafale was on par with his horse while an USAF general and former F-22 pilot who was offered a ride was absolutely delighted. French are also very impressed by F-22 which is an absolute beast, for sure, when they do joint missions, most of the time, as it's long range stuff, Rafale carries large subsonic drop tanks, then pilots tell to themselves "oh, the Yankees are late" then suddenly, see the 22s arriving at Mach1.8 in supercruise, each dropping its 2 JDAMs on time while each Rafale drops its 6 "Magic bombs" (that's how they call he AASM HAMMER at the SHAPE), but, at the same time, w.o. cost cutting, fit the Rafale with 2x100kN of dry thrust, even with the 2 1250L drop tanks and the CFTs Rafale would be able of a Mach2 supercruise with more AAMs than F-22 can carry: when Dassault says Mach1.8 with the two 75kN engines, it's with 3 supersonic drop-tanks and AAMs and it's still able of a Mach1.4 supercruise with 2x 50 kN, you also won't see a F-22 with SCALP-EG, or a Mach3 nuclear cruise missile, there is also no Apache ALCM capable of ruining 400m of a runway's foundations about 400-500km behind enemy lines.
> 
> Just dig this : during the Atlantic trident drills, F-22 and Rafale enter first, the F-35 and Typhoon follow. USAF says F-35 has to be protected by F-22, Typhoon or Rafale, UK MoD says F-35 needs to be protected by Typhoon and when you know how poorly Typhoon performed against Rafale as well as the highly upgraded Indian Su-30MKI,while USAF's Ar Combat Command head declared "If we don't keep F-22, F-35 will be irrelevant, F-35 is NOT an air superiority platform".
> General Dynamics and Boeing have created a freaking monster with F-22, unfortunately, Lockheed-Martin took over, so F-22 has been deliberately made overexpensive with astronomical costs of use and they did the same with the F-35 which, at the start, was supposed to be a cost effective strike aircraft to complement a fleet of 750 F-22... With the idiot congressman that managed to ban the F-22's exports, then Obongo who ordered the destruction of the tooling.
> USAF has packed money to use F-16 until 2048, is buying F-15EX while cutting on F-35 orders and maintenance and general Brown has already warned :
> *The Air Force Isn't Dominant Anymore ... Says Air Force Chief of Staff*
> With F-35 economics being a disaster, the GAO warned, a few years ago, that the full program will cost $1.3 trillion more than planned, and the planned cost was already soaring at $1.65 trillion...
> The NGAD is said as costing even more than the F-22, well, the only way to keep USAF relevance, and the USN and USMC too,
> Replacing every F-15, F-16, F-18, A-10, AV-8B and even F-35 and F-22 in service today with Rafale would be way way much cheaper : the lifelong cost of a F-35 over 50 years is close to $1bn, purchase included, the lifelong cost of a Rafale is not even the quarter, and, in terms of operational capability, it does the job of three F-16s... Considering the low costs of use compared to legacy 4th and 5th gen fighters, the 5.5th gen Rafale is likely, if generalised, to cut about 65% of the annual cost of use of the "shooters" fleets, thus allowing to buy and use the NGAD in numbers, moreover, the NGAD would profit from technologies that are not available in the USA now since these were dev'd by the French and, as Linus Torvalds declared :
> View attachment 850371
> 
> And, considering the numbers of autocrats and wanna be tyrants waiting for any US weakness on the corner, with 13 inches nails planted through their baseball bats...
> Some DoD SPOX declared : "in the future, we'll need more and more weapons systems designs from our European allies"... Like it or not, but if you still didn't got that your MIC has became a bunch of scammers, especially LM, and I wouldn't be too surprised if the AIM-260 ends inferior to the Meteor because the more LM uses of words like outstanding, second to none, overwhelming, etc etc, the more it's subpar overexpensive shit...
> 
> When a journo asked Marcel Dassault : _"So you're making the Rafale for France?"_, M.D. answered :_ "No, I make Rafale for the world!"_
> 
> Now, if USA wants its air forces to be bounced by S-400, S-500, J-20, J-31, Su-57 and Su-75, go on with NIH syndrome and Murican exceptionalism : F-35 is the recipe for defeat. Once France reaches the full complement of 225 Rafales, it's enough to enforce air superiority in case of a PRC + Russia coalition attacking the E.U. as well as suppressing their air defences or doing deep penetration raids...
> Just the fact that F-22 and F-35 need costly special hangars and that the standard S-400 [degraded] *export* [AKA "monkey model", yup, this expression they use since the Soviet-era is absolutely racist] radar can engage them from 150km = AGM-88 HARM's range, but there are bigger issues ; passive radars won't be spotted so easily, even a small fishing boat or a buoy can be equipped, detect your F-35 from 100km and provide targetting to long range SAMs. Ukraine builds passive radars since the Soviet-era, that's why Russia has serious air-superiority issues there.
> 
> 
> If you want to imply into French bashing, be ready to be lectured more harshly by daddy.
> If the USA were n Europe, you wouldn't be allowed to enter the EU on human rights violations grounds (death penalty, Gitmo), and corruption grounds (corporate funding of electoral campaigns = legalized corruption), you know, when you need to threaten Norwegian PM with "degraded relations with the United States" if Norway doesn't buys the F-35 which they absolutely don't need, don't be surprised if you get US-bashing from allies... BTW, remember Dubya's French bashing campaign which lasted for years? Yesterday, I spotted my first Ford car into 6 months... Yup, French stopped buying Ford motorcars as retaliation (as well as Harley-Davidsons). The Ford factory in Germany went bankrupt and a French car-maker bought it for peanuts. We also bounced General Motors from the EU market (Opel/Vauxhall is ours) and guess who took over Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep and Ram trucks? The Peugeot/Citroên-Fiat consortium...
> I think we should consider an aggressive takeover on Lockheed-Martin, any way they're a disgrace for the profession, if BAe wasn't the most crooked company in the industry, thanks to Brit law protecting them in case of briberies as long they don't pay baksheesh/kickbacks in the UK, LM would. Maybe should we help Bashar a shooting down a F-35... As Mayer Lansky used to say : _"Nothing personal, it's just business"_


I guess we’ll just have to wait and see, honestly I hope we never have too.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532555310501699597

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532530232258863110

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532448120713404416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532459252757020680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532450142523211782

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532424095903666178

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532439528119468032


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532408429788155904


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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532424095903666178
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532439528119468032


Ah yes, sealing the cauldron like they said months ago when shifting to the east. Yet the cauldron became smaller and smaller, and their encirclements slower and slower


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532354425779539968
Cold Russians

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## Oldman1

Huffal said:


> Has any war that has been fought since the past 40-50 years been justified?


Gulf War 1?



Meengla said:


> Per a statement by Zelenskyy today: About 20% of Ukraine is occupied by Russia now!
> 
> And that 20% has mainly pro Russia population and a lot of Ukraine's economic potentials. IF Russia consolidates its gains in the east and south and takes Odessa and cuts off Ukraine from the sea then it will be a huge strategic victory. And that maybe the 3rd phase of the Russian offensive. And I don't think Howitzers or guided artillery is going to make enough difference once Russia uses natural boundaries like rivers to consolidates its gains, resupplies, and uses its own artillery and airpower to destroy anything Ukraine would have in the vicinity of Russian military.
> 
> Wars are not fought and won on Twitter. If they were then the so-called boastful Lion of Panjshir Masood Jr. would have fended off the Taliban after August 2021; we saw how much support he had in the media but all that came to nothing.


They are not going to take Odessa. When he says 20% that includes Donbas and Crimea as well prior to the war since the Ukrainians believe it started since 2014. And if artillery and missiles not going to make a difference, why is Russia making a big deal out of the deliveries? Maybe because it could make a difference?








K_Bin_W said:


> What happened to US-supplied howitzers? There are videos on youtube Russia destroyed all of them..


LOLOLOL! Who told you that?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## A.P. Richelieu

MajesticPug said:


> For the record, China did not support Kim's invasion into SKorea. Mao at the time was focused on 'resolving' Taiwan (unify Taiwan). Kim's blunt adventure caught Mao unprepared and cornered him into deciding to help N Korea when Kim's forces were getting beat badly and N Korea as a buffer being eliminated. Soon after Chinese forces entered the Korea theatre, US 7th Fleet patrolled the Taiwan Strait and basically stopped Mao's plan to unify Taiwan.


He might not know about it, but Mao certainly started supporting the war after it started.


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## Viet

Russia failed to pay interests on debts during one month grace period, is now officially declared bankrupt.

Putin makes Russia to the same level of Srilanka.

Congrats.










Russia’s Missed Bond Payment Triggers Default Insurance


Russia failed to meet its obligations to creditors when it didn’t make a small interest payment in April, according to an industry body overseeing the derivatives market, a ruling that triggers some $2.2 billion in credit-default swaps.




www.wsj.com

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## Oldman1

A.P. Richelieu said:


> He might not know about it, but Mao certainly started supporting the war after it started.


No, Mao knew about it and supported it. But he was distracted with his own problems and Kim was eager to get started while the U.S. was pulling troops out.


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## MajesticPug

A.P. Richelieu said:


> He might not know about it, but Mao certainly started supporting the war after it started.



_After _Kim's force was nearly depleted and situation was clear the South will soon topple Kim's and American forces will border China.

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## A.P. Richelieu

RoadAmerica said:


> Yeh those aren’t wars no matter how you slice it……try again


You do not get to define what is a war.
If this is a war, Trumps attacks are a war.

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## KendoKhan

jamahir said:


> Your loyalty first and foremost should be to humanity, to rationality and justice.


My loyalty is to the Crown and the country that adopted me and gave me an Identity and opportunity and most importantly, equal rights. So if you are done pontificating, lets discuss Russia please. Do Moderators not view these threads, you are trying to veer the discussion into another realm, beyond the original remit of this topic. 

Lets discuss Russia's transgressions in Ukraine please.

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## khansaheeb

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532508878306410500
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532510031295414279
> 
> There are reports the Ukrainians have conducted a counter assault into Severodonetsk against unprepared Russian defenses.


They keep reporting Russian losses and retreats but the map keeps showing Russian gains. Weirdest war I have seen where retreats lead to territory gains.

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## jamahir

KendoKhan said:


> My loyalty is to the Crown and the country that adopted me and gave me an Identity and opportunity and most importantly, equal rights. So if you are done pontificating, lets discuss Russia please. Do Moderators not view these threads, you are trying to veer the discussion into another realm, beyond the original remit of this topic.
> 
> Lets discuss Russia's transgressions in Ukraine please.



Moderators will see that I am pointing to the tragedy that you are voluntarily part of the British military which is a component of NATO which not only trained thief Zelensky's Nazi fanatics but is now supplying armaments to said Nazis who are harming Russians and allies ( Syrians ) who are in Ukraine to deNazify, demilitarize and prevent NATO nuclear weapons to be installed in Ukraine targeting Russia. Zelensky's Nazis are also committing crimes against Ukrainian own civilians. So I am very much on topic.

Why are you hating on the Russians anyway ?

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## khansaheeb

Impact of Ukraine war impacting US:-



https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/06/02/russia-sanctions-ultrafast-delivery-buyk/


How Russia sanctions helped kill 15-minute delivery in New York​Days after the invasion of Ukraine, ultrafast delivery startup Buyk declared bankruptcy and laid off all of its 900 American employees​By Soo Youn
June 2, 2022 at 4:00 a.m. EDT

A Buyk courier on New York City's Upper West Side in November 2021. (Noam Galai/Photographer: Noam Galai/Getty I)
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On the morning of Feb. 24, Yusuff Alabi-Ajidagba, the U.S. head of retail operations for ultrafast grocery delivery start-up Buyk, was in a Houston hotel room gearing up for an aggressive expansion plan when he saw footage of Russian missiles attacking Ukraine on CNN.

By 11 a.m., Alabi-Ajidagba said, he was on an all-hands video call in which chief executive James Walker assured employees there would be no financial impact to Buyk — even though the co-founders and parent company were Russian.
“No one was thinking we wouldn’t have a job,” Alabi-Ajidagba said. “I don’t think anyone even knew what sanctions meant. No one believed it was going to impact the world the way it did.”

But within 16 days, Buyk would declare bankruptcy and lay off all of its 900 employees — its rapid rise and even more rapid demise exhibiting a globalized system of start-ups that proved singularly vulnerable to U.S. sanctions against key Russian figures and financial institutions after the invasion of Ukraine.
Russia-Ukraine war live updates
For many Americans, sanctions may conjure images of agents raiding an oligarch’s half-billion-dollar yacht or putting a Premier League soccer team on the auction block.






But economic sanctions can also be a blunt instrument, punishing civilians along with the rich and powerful.
The unprecedented depth and speed of U.S. sanctions for the invasion of Ukraine disrupted not just the lives of average Russians but also office workers and couriers as far away from Moscow as New York and Chicago.

For these workers, sanctions were experienced through mundane actions: a Zoom call, a WhatsApp or Telegram chat, then the lack of a paycheck as Buyk was severed from its financial lifelines.
Buyk, pronounced “bike,” was the U.S. subsidiary of Samokat (which means “scooter”), one of Russia’s most popular grocery-delivery services. Buyk launched in New York City in September 2021 and Chicago in December, with plans to serve Boston, Houston, Miami and Los Angeles by the end of 2022.






Although Buyk was incorporated in the United States, co-founders Vyacheslav “Slava” Bocharov and Rodion Shishkov were also the founders of Samokat.
Buyk started to unravel on Feb. 24 when the United States immediately targeted 10 of Russia’s largest financial institutions, cutting Sberbank, Russia’s largest bank, off from the U.S. financial system.

News of the invasion had caught Alabi-Ajidagba off guard, he said, since he had just been in Moscow two weeks earlier — when Samokat executives had dismissed the possibility of war, insisting Russian President Vladimir Putin was bluffing. Now, on an 8 a.m. call with his Russian colleagues, Alabi-Ajidagba was told there wouldn’t be any impact on the company. After all, Buyk had announced a partnership with Grubhub the day before. His next trip was planned for June.






But the actions against Sberbank would prove fatal, choking Buyk off from a source of cash at a critical point in its development.
Cracks emerge in Russian elite as tycoons start to bemoan invasion
Through a joint venture, Sberbank and Russian Internet company Mail.ru Group owned 75.6 percent of Samokat.

While Bocharov and Shishkov are not on any sanctions list, the actions against Sberbank affected their ability to continue to fund the business, according to the Chapter 11 filing on March 17. So did the banking restrictions imposed by Putin on Feb. 28 that banned residents from sending money to bank accounts abroad.
When the invasion began, the founders were providing bridge financing because Buyk was in between rounds of funding.
“The vast majority was tied up in Sberbank,” according to a former employee who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he is negotiating a new job.






Bocharov did not respond to a WhatsApp message asking for clarification on the company’s structure and the funding relationships.

Ahead of its launch, Buyk raised $46 million from CM Ventures, Fort Ross Ventures and Citius, venture capital firms with Russian ties.
Sberbank was a leading investor in Fort Ross and helped launch the venture capital firm in Menlo Park, Calif., in 2015.
Former Sberbank chief technology officer Victor Orlovski, now managing partner at Fort Ross, previously told The Washington Post in an email, “We are taking all necessary measures to isolate and stop any relationship with any sanctioned investor if this is mandated by regulation.”
Surviving these sanctions proved harder than anticipated. The United States leveled targeted sanctions against Russia after its invasion of Crimea in 2014. But this round proved to be the “most unprecedented, commercially meaningful, fastest-moving sanctions program in history,” said Crowell & Moring lawyer Dj Wolff, who specializes in international trade, sanctions and embargoes.

A pedestrian walks past a Buyk distribution center in New York in 2021. (Spencer Platt/Getty Images)
Historically, the United States has taken the approach of: Let’s try not to be too blunt, Wolff said. “I, and many others, have been surprised by how far not just the U.S., but the E.U. and the U.K. are willing to go with the blunter parts of their tools. Going after the biggest banks, that hurts the banks, but it also hurts everybody who has an account at those banks, including you and me if we lived in Moscow,” Wolff added. “But clearly the thought process has been: That’s a cost we’re willing to take to try to change Russian decision-making.”
From Russia with money: Silicon Valley distances itself from oligarchs
Rival delivery start-up Fridge No More, which also had Russian founders and investors, shut down March 10, laying off all 600 workers.







On March 3, one week after the invasion, Buyk’s director of learning, Saren Stiegel, toured eight stores in Chicago. News of the invasion hung like a “dark cloud” over the company, she said, because there were Ukrainian and Russian workers. But, on that Thursday, she noticed Russian team members leaving group messaging chats.
Alabi-Ajidagba, who was also in Chicago on a business trip, also noticed the Russians leaving the 35 to 40 group chats for employees on Telegram. When he reached out individually, he said, he was told they were clearing out old chat groups, which he found puzzling.
In Chicago, Samuel Sanchez Jr. was six weeks into his job as a Buyk courier. A 26-year-old former mover, he enjoyed zipping around the city on one of the company’s e-bikes at 25 or 30 mph. But he had noticed he was getting less busy. There were fewer delivery calls, and his hours were cut.







Twenty-four hours later, all three were all furloughed, along with 98 percent of the rest of the company’s employees. For Stiegel, it was shocking — she had just been promoted two weeks earlier. She couldn’t see the connection between Buyk and the invasion.
“We're an American company, right? The money in Russia? It has nothing to do with the oligarchs,” she said.
In a companywide Zoom call, Walker, the chief executive, told workers he was trying to find funding to save the company.
On Saturday, March 5, supply chain consultant Brittain Ladd, who had always been bullish on Buyk, started an intense conversation with Walker and an investor, Stefan Schimenes, with whom he was already working on a parcel delivery company, in the hope of buying or investing in Buyk, he told The Post.

“James was in need of $20 million immediately,” he said.






Walker had also approached Grubhub to invest — but Buyk collapsed before a deal could be finalized. “Given Buyk’s news, we ended our project,” Grubhub said in a statement. “When we made our announcement, the timeline to add their locations to our marketplace was at least a few weeks out, so none of their locations were ever live on Grubhub.”
After 72 hours of talks, Ladd said, he backed away because he could not raise the $20 million quickly enough and the owners were unwilling to sell.
Another investor passed, partly over concerns about connections to Putin’s government, according to a person briefed on the discussions who previously spoke to The Post on the condition of anonymity because the matter was confidential.
On Wednesday, March 9, Stiegel attended a Zoom farewell with her Russian team.






“Wait, we don’t know if Buyk’s going to fail yet,” she remembers thinking. She had struggled to overcome the cultural differences and miscommunications between the Russian and American employees and the company’s murky reporting structure, and she said she was heartbroken to come out the other side and hear the Russian members tell her: “Imagine if the world had learned to integrate the way we did it. We really were onto something here.”
On Friday, March 11, Walker laid off the employees and told them the company was filing for bankruptcy. It filed for Chapter 11 reorganization on March 17, citing the impossibility of receiving the funding from its founders.
“Sanctions were not the issue, as none of our investors, banks, or either of our founders were directly sanctioned. Rather, it was Putin’s restrictions on Russian banks being able to send money outside of Russia that impacted our funding,” Walker wrote in an email to The Post.
While legally the distinction is important, it seems moot to many of the employees.
“If you’re a delivery worker making $17 an hour, you don’t care if it’s U.S. or Russian sanctions,” Alabi-Ajidagba said. “It’s been painful and chaotic.”
Since the company’s collapse, he has stayed active in group chats of the teams he managed, in some cases making connections for employees at other companies. Still, for the majority, he said, losing their jobs has meant a loss of child care, loss of transportation, not being able to pay rent.
Tens of thousands of Russian gig workers left behind as tech platforms pull out
Some employees have shown articles about the company’s collapse to landlords in the hope of gaining an extension on rent.
Alabi-Ajidagba said he has had to alter his lifestyle and dip into his savings as he job-hunts: “Trips, restaurants, all the bougie things.” He has had to stop sending money to support his family in Nigeria.
There’s also the specter of potential anti-Russian sentiment that is affecting the job prospects of some former employees.
“The attitude is changing right now, obviously,” Yana Pesotskaya, Buyk’s other head of U.S. operations who is a Russian and French national, said at the beginning of April when she was looking for another job. “It’s not aggressive; it’s a very cautious attitude right now [from prospective employers]: ‘Better not to go with that,’ rather than anything to do with my skills or who I am as a person.”
Ladd said he also noticed an anti-Russian sentiment among potential investors.
Many of the Buyk employees interviewed for this article are still trying to find jobs.
Sanchez, the courier in Chicago, went back to working as a mover but had to take out a loan and still owes back payments on rent. Alabi-Ajidagba said he is holding out for the right opportunity.
Stiegel, a single mother who is drawing on savings, is starting her own company, Vokly, to train employees, rather than work for another start-up. She said she had been in a state of shock immediately after the company folded. “The wrong people lost their jobs.”


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## KendoKhan

jamahir said:


> Moderators will see that I am pointing to the tragedy that you are voluntarily part of the British military


Yes I am and proud to be part of it. It's called serving your country... And this is off-topic



> Why are you hating on the Russians anyway ?


I don't hate "Russians", I do however hate Putin's actions and the actions of his military in Ukraine.

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## jamahir

KendoKhan said:


> I don't hate "Russians", I do however hate Putin's actions and the actions of his military in Ukraine.



Why ? Despite me giving the reasons ( Nazis and all ) ?


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## KendoKhan

jamahir said:


> Why ? Despite me giving the reasons ( Nazis and all ) ?


You posted a wall of text to somehow justify the Russian war against Ukraine. You do know that Russia has it's on Neo-Nazi's right? Right? I want to ask, what is your fascination with Russia? you are not a Russian, you are not a European Citizen nor a Russian Citizen and you don't even live in the European sphere, this pro-Russian rhetoric from you is rather laughable. 

Putin's Russia is a bully and will be utterly humiliated in Ukraine.


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## Viet

KendoKhan said:


> You posted a wall of text to somehow justify the Russian war against Ukraine. You do know that Russia has it's on Neo-Nazi's right? Right? I want to ask, what is your fascination with Russia? you are not a Russian, you are not a European Citizen nor a Russian Citizen and you don't even live in the European sphere, this pro-Russian rhetoric from you is rather laughable.
> 
> Putin's Russia is a bully and will be utterly humiliated in Ukraine.


Because they are zombies. To kill some Nazi, to liberate some Russian speaking people in Ukraine they are willing to kill millions, make more millions to refugees, destroy an entire country, culture, heritage and everything else.
And committing self suicide.
On the way to this great achievement they make themselves to slave of China, India while saying that’s the new world democratic order.
No joke.
That’s what Lavrov said.

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## northeast

KendoKhan said:


> You posted a wall of text to somehow justify the Russian war against Ukraine. You do know that Russia has it's on Neo-Nazi's right? Right? I want to ask, what is your fascination with Russia? you are not a Russian, you are not a European Citizen nor a Russian Citizen and you don't even live in the European sphere, this pro-Russian rhetoric from you is rather laughable.
> 
> Putin's Russia is a bully and will be utterly humiliated in Ukraine.


Russian Neo-Nazis haven‘t killed foreigners like Ukrainian Neo-Nazis kill russian ethinic living in donbas area. Don't you guys support democracy and taiwan got independence from china? Why not respect the will of donbass people whom want to break out of Ukraine?

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## A.P. Richelieu

MajesticPug said:


> _After _Kim's force was nearly depleted and situation was clear the South will soon topple Kim's and American forces will border China.


Mao was well aware of the invasion plans before the invasion started, and started threatening to join the war as soon as the United Nations landed in South Korea.


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## jamahir

KendoKhan said:


> You posted a wall of text to somehow justify the Russian war against Ukraine. You do know that Russia has it's on Neo-Nazi's right? Right? I want to ask, what is your fascination with Russia? you are not a Russian, you are not a European Citizen nor a Russian Citizen and you don't even live in the European sphere, this pro-Russian rhetoric from you is rather laughable.
> 
> Putin's Russia is a bully and will be utterly humiliated in Ukraine.



1. Russia has its own Nazis but they are not in the government and the military burning swastikas into alive people's backs and hanging pregnant women off wood beams in forests and holding them still until they die. Unlike in Ukraine.

2. As Corax told you yesterday I am a Communist so will speak against the unjust and oppressor anywhere and in favor of anyone removing that oppressor. Even so, any human with rationality, empathy and intelligent understanding of the world will not support NATO, much less be in it.

3. If you really want to do good for problems of Europe then please read some I list here.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Mao was well aware of the invasion plans before the invasion started, and started threatening to join the war as soon as the United Nations landed in South Korea.



Please take this convo to 'Whatever' so that you can be replied there.

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## Viet

NotSure said:


> Lol, *the west is blocking russian payments*. I am trying to imagine, how desperate and mentally degenerated someone has to be, not only to use such cheap tricks, no, but to brag about it in the propaganda.
> 
> The anglo saxon west is now actively destroying their own financial system, they have built over many decades. And our vietnamese wannabe german is parroting this propaganda. Full of pride.


It’s you the dummy. The US gov does forbid US banks however doesn’t stop Russian banks to make the USD payments. Putin can pay however he refused. He wants to pay in rubles. Thus the default. Pls don’t resort to racism here.


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## ZeGerman

jamahir said:


> Moderators will see that I am pointing to the tragedy that you are voluntarily part of the British military which is a component of NATO which not only trained thief Zelensky's Nazi fanatics but is now supplying armaments to said Nazis who are harming Russians and allies ( Syrians ) who are in Ukraine to deNazify, demilitarize and prevent NATO nuclear weapons to be installed in Ukraine targeting Russia. Zelensky's Nazis are also committing crimes against Ukrainian own civilians. So I am very much on topic.
> 
> Why are you hating on the Russians anyway ?


Very funny view you have on reality.

Azov element is a small minority in ukraines military. Installing nuclear weapons a far dot on the horizon and only tough words after russias previous invasion and continued agression. 

We now see russia, historically very much a expansionist colonialist empire, 
denying ukraines statehood and, despite their vows after ukraine removed their nukes….invading them…again…

Mind you, this is russia…who in the past committed the holodomir on the ukranians. 
And now could not accept ukraine seeking closer ties with the EU. 


Ofcourse the only reason you blindly and fully take the side of russia here is your hate against “the west”. Spare me your crocodile tears about caring for “humanity” while showing such callous disregard for the ukranian victims in Bucha and elsewhere.



khansaheeb said:


> They keep reporting Russian losses and retreats but the map keeps showing Russian gains. Weirdest war I have seen where retreats lead to territory gains.


Buy some new glasses. 
Then look what happened to russian territory around kiev and kharkiv…..

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## jamahir

ZeGerman said:


> Azov element is a small minority in ukraines military.



Azov, Aidar and Bandera types are dispersed all over the Ukrainian military but a lot of the military is also composed of civilians forcibly brought into it on the threat of long jail terms and those who vocally want to leave after this drafting are taken to destinations unknown. Go through the previous few pages of this thread and you will see vids of Ukrainian units saying they won't fight and one drafted person from just yesterday saying the previous lines.



ZeGerman said:


> Installing nuclear weapons a far dot on the horizon and only tough words after russias previous invasion and continued agression.



After ? It was a very possible possibility hence the pre-emptive action by Russia.



ZeGerman said:


> Mind you, this is russia…who in the past committed the holodomir on the ukranians.



Many Ukrainian scientists were voluntarily part of USSR's programs including space.



ZeGerman said:


> Ofcourse the only reason you blindly and fully take the side of russia here is your hate against “the west”.



I don't hate The West but the Capitalist-imperialist governments of the West.  You as a Westerner will live a much better life without Capitalism imposing on you everyday.



ZeGerman said:


> Spare me your crocodile tears about caring for “humanity” while showing such callous disregard for the ukranian victims in Bucha and elsewhere.



Oh Bucha... Whatever became of that "Russia-made genocide" ?  Let me ask your German-Greek comrade @Apollon who during the time it supposedly happened was going on and on about ebeel Russians but he now speaks not one word about it, LOL, and during that time Russia was the first one to ask for impartial investigation. So you tell me what became of it.

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## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> They keep reporting Russian losses and retreats but the map keeps showing Russian gains. Weirdest war I have seen where retreats lead to territory gains.


They lost ground in Kherson, but gain ground on Sieverodonetsk.

In fact, the Russia lost more than they gain. Here are the timeline and roughly how much Russia occupied since Feb 24

Feb 24 - March 30 ~ 33% (Including Donbas, Kharkiv, Chernihiv, Kherson, Northern Kyiv)
March 30 - May 14 ~ 25% (Including Kharkiv, Donbas, and Kherson)
May 15 - now ~ 21 % (Donbas and Kherson)

In Kherson, Ukrainian regain 4 cities and 20 smaller settlement, while Russian gain Lyman and some smaller village near Popasna.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532604260713648129

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532600113138438145

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## Soldier35

Ukrainian refugees in Bulgaria showed where they began to be transported from hotels on the sea coast. The Bulgarian authorities have begun to release hotels from refugees due to the start of the holiday season.






Published footage of the repair of Russian military equipment damaged in the battles in Ukraine and the restoration of captured equipment in Ukraine. For the speedy return of military equipment to service, specialists use the method of modular repair by replacing faulty units with serviceable ones from the repair fund, or removed from Ukrainian captured equipment, the maximum repair period is three days.






The Russian Ministry of Defense showed the work of the S-300PM2 Favorit air defense system in Ukraine. The S-300 family of air defense systems is quite widely represented and you can get confused in it. In short, these are several types, the S-300P is directly intended for the air defense forces, the S-300V is for the ground forces and the S-300F is for the fleet, there is also a tracked version of the S-300V4 for the ground forces, designed more to deal with aircraft EW. S-300PM2 is the modernization of the S-300 complex and bringing its characteristics to the level of the S-400 air defense system, according to some it even surpasses the S-400. As a result of modernization, the firing range of "Favorite" has increased to 200 km

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## ZeGerman

jamahir said:


> Azov, Aidar and Bandera types are dispersed all over the Ukrainian military but a lot of the military is also composed of civilians forcibly brought into it on the threat of long jail terms and those who vocally want to leave after this drafting are taken to destinations unknown. Go through the previous few pages of this thread and you will see vids of Ukrainian units saying they won't fight and one drafted person from just yesterday saying the previous lines.
> 
> 
> 
> After ? It was a very possible possibility hence the pre-emptive action by Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> Many Ukrainian scientists were voluntarily part of USSR's programs including space.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't hate The West but the Capitalist-imperialist governments of the West.  You as a Westerner will live a much better life without Capitalism imposing on you everyday.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh Bucha... Whatever became of that "Russia-made genocide" ?  Let me ask your German-Greek comrade @Apollon who during the time it supposedly happened was going on and on about ebeel Russians but he now speaks not one word about it, LOL, and during that time Russia was the first one to ask for impartial investigation. So you tell me what became of it.


“Dispersed” does not change the fact that it is a small minority and does not justify grozny bombing tactics and gunning down biking civilians. 

Nukes real possibility? 
They had not even started nato entry, let alone that nukes were anywhere near being placed. 

I mention the holodomir and you reply that there were ukranian scientists in the space program…i assume i dont have to explain too much what a ridiculous “justification/counter” this is. 


But your like the monkey 🙈 🙉 🙊 
Even though russian history is steeped in blood and atrocities (recently chechnia, syria, and now ukraine)


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## jamahir

ZeGerman said:


> But your like the monkey 🙈 🙉 🙊
> Even though russian history is steeped in blood and atrocities (recently chechnia, syria, and now ukraine)



Please tell me about Syria.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532566049446629383

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532566054114889742

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## Hassan Al-Somal

ZeGerman said:


> Ah yes, sealing the cauldron like they said months ago when shifting to the east. Yet the cauldron became smaller and smaller, and their encirclements slower and slower



Cauldron worked in Mariaupol, Liman, Severodonets, etc.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532581049946910720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532592121802280960

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532606736632258561

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532607036726337536
*--A fighter jet of the Ukrainian Air Force Su-25 was shot down near the village of Lyubomirovka, Mykolaiv region.

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## beast89

Viet said:


> You should look at the other side of the coin. Russians occupy 20 percent that means Ukrainians still control 80 percent. From there Ukraine can attack the enemy until eternity. Let’s see how long this war will continue. 1 year, 10 years or 20 years. I am not military expert but it’s laughable when you think the Russians can hide behind natural boundaries.


you live in a land of fantasy, who's gonna be funding this war for ukraine indefinitely? And who's gonna be funding the millions of refugees. Russia will capture the east and landlock it then Poland will swoop in and then take part of the west in couple of decades time. Ukraine needed a strong traditional republican they got sleepy joe instead. Ukraine should have balanced west and Russia instead of going full nazi on the Russian speakers realising no American would fight for them.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532623603950309377

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## beast89

Top unbias analysis, Kherson unlikely to be liberated

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## Hassan Al-Somal

⚡️Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

▫️The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine.

💥High-precision air-based missiles of the Russian Aerospace Forces have hit 21 areas of concentration of AFU manpower and military equipment during the day.

✈️💥Operational-tactical, army and unmanned aviation have hit 37 areas of Ukrainian manpower and military equipment concentration.

▫️The attacks have resulted in the elimination of more than 360 nationalists and 49 weapons and military equipment including 1 detection and airspace control radar station in Slavyansk, Donetsk People's Republic.

▫️Also 13 Ukrainian tanks and infantry fighting vehicles, 1 Osa-AKM anti-aircraft missile system have been destroyed near Bakhmut, as well as 2 mortar batteries, 2 Grad multiple rocket launchers, 8 artillery mounts, 26 special vehicles, and 4 missile and artillery weapon depots near Soledar, Dzerzhinsk, Yakovlevka and Bakhmut.

💥Russian air defence means have shot down 3 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles near Ryasnaya, Krutaya Balka, Donetsk People's Republic and Dmitrovka, Kharkov Region overnight. 3 Uragan multiple-launch rockets have been also intercepted over Petropolie, Kamenka, Kharkov Region, and Novoselovka Vtoraya, Donetsk People's Republic.

💥Missile troops and artillery have hit 26 command posts, 122 AFU artillery and mortar batteries at firing positions, 537 areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration, as well as 5 ammunition depots. 1 AFU unmanned aerial vehicle control post near Pervomaiskoe in Nikolaev Region has been destroyed.

📊In total, 186 Ukrainian aircraft and 129 helicopters, 1,087 unmanned aerial vehicles, 328 anti-aircraft missile systems, 3,386 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 462 multiple launch rocket systems, 1,760 field artillery and mortars, as well as 3,376 units of special military vehicles were destroyed during the operation.

▫️Against the backdrop of Kiev's political catastrophe in Mariupol and military failures in Donbass, the Kiev regime, with British financial support, has organised the production of "morale raise" videos for Western and Ukrainian audiences.

▫️In particular, on May 28, staged video was filmed near Meshkovka, Nikolaev Region, of the alleged "high efficiency" of the use of Western weaponry by Ukrainian nationalists.

▫️To add more drama to the future film, at the insistence of British supervisors, a re-enactment of never-existing battle between Ukrainian Nazis and outnumbered "Russian soldiers" was created on the set.

▫️The roles of "opponents" of the Ukrainian Nazis in the staged short film were performed by members of the local territorial defence unit wearing red armbands.

▫️In the absence of trophy Russian equipment, the mock enemy appears in the frame using Ukrainian APCs and armoured vehicles.

▫️The next video shoot is scheduled for June 5 and 6. The videos will focus on staged testimonies of "ordinary Ukrainians" accusing Russia of allegedly deliberately shelling civilian populated areas.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing
@mod_russia_en

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532599728998862854

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532564131437350913

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## Viet

beast89 said:


> you live in a land of fantasy, who's gonna be funding this war for ukraine indefinitely? And who's gonna be funding the millions of refugees. Russia will capture the east and landlock it then Poland will swoop in and then take part of the west in couple of decades time. Ukraine needed a strong traditional republican they got sleepy joe instead. Ukraine should have balanced west and Russia instead of going full nazi on the Russian speakers realising no American would fight for them.


It’s you who lives in fantasy. Ukraine is not Swiss. The Swiss neutrality is respected by Germany, France, Italy. Ukraine neutrality is respected by whom?
Russia conducts a war of extermination no propaganda can hide it. Putin has put his intentions in his manifesto.
Any aggressor needs an excuse. Oppressing russian speaking population is old an excuse. Nazi? you are dumb!
Chinese invasion of Vietnam used the same excuse they said we oppressed chinese speaking population.

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## jamahir

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532592121802280960



@KendoKhan, these are the people you expect to fight alongside ? They will just push you to the front and shut the door.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Against the backdrop of Kiev's political catastrophe in Mariupol and military failures in Donbass, the Kiev regime, with British financial support, has organised the production of "morale raise" videos for Western and Ukrainian audiences.
> 
> ▫️In particular, on May 28, staged video was filmed near Meshkovka, Nikolaev Region, of the alleged "high efficiency" of the use of Western weaponry by Ukrainian nationalists.
> 
> ▫️To add more drama to the future film, at the insistence of British supervisors, a re-enactment of never-existing battle between Ukrainian Nazis and outnumbered "Russian soldiers" was created on the set.
> 
> ▫️The roles of "opponents" of the Ukrainian Nazis in the staged short film were performed by members of the local territorial defence unit wearing red armbands.
> 
> ▫️In the absence of trophy Russian equipment, the mock enemy appears in the frame using Ukrainian APCs and armoured vehicles.
> 
> ▫️The next video shoot is scheduled for June 5 and 6. The videos will focus on staged testimonies of "ordinary Ukrainians" accusing Russia of allegedly deliberately shelling civilian populated areas.



We should soon expect @Vergennes, @F-22Raptor and co. to post snippets from that shot film and for their new comrade @ZeGerman to post clips from the upcoming "documentary" with the testimonies of ordinary Ukrainians oppressed by the ebeel Russians.

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## jhungary

beast89 said:


> Top unbias analysis, Kherson unlikely to be liberated


He didn't say it's unlikely, he said it would have to wait and see, and this is 3 days old, before Ukraine making the major push. In a subsequent video, he said they are doing pretty good at the moment


----------



## Ali_Baba

It looks like by every measure that Ukraine will be able to liberate Kherson from Russian occupational forces in the next few weeks.

Extending beyond Kherson may be a problem if the Russians blow up all the bridges across the Dnjpro River, which given the advantage they have as occupiers, they may be decide to do. We have all seen how difficult it is to cross Rivers under combat conditions recently.

Ukraines focus is to hold the ground elsewhere as much as possible and to focus on breaking the land bridge between Crimea and Donbas which looks increasingly possible now.


----------



## ZeGerman

DF41 said:


> Let us talk of the transgressions against Russia created by USA and NATO and the blatant killing of Russian speakers in Eastern part of Ukraine encouraged by USA and NATO that caused Russia to finally react after 8 over years of patience.
> 
> Why do you want to talk of the end part and not the way the war was caused by USA and NATO?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you must be kidding if you think you a brown banana with the rights of white British and the same rights as that of the white financiers.
> 
> *GROW UP!
> OR YOU END UP WHERE THE SUN AND MOON DO NOT SHINE AND COCKROACHES ROAM
> AS YOU OTHERWISE GOT NOTHING INTELLIGENT TO TELL ME OR ANYONE WITH BRAINS
> 
> YOU CAN TELL THE COCKROACHES THOUGH, AND THOSE ALREADY THERE.*
> 
> View attachment 850587


Lets not pretend history stops 8 years ago but go further back. 

Ukraine was the bread basket of the soviet union, however 4 million ukranians starved to death under stalins rule. 

This and more are the reason ukranians want sovereignity. One that was finally given to them 30 years ago, with a vow from russia to respect their safety and territorial integrity as long as ukraine would get rid of its many nucleair weapons. 

However russia likes to either occupy its former warsaw pact “allies” or expects them to be subservient slaves to russian interests. As soon as ukraine wanted closer ties to the EU they influenced their corrupt puppet to rip up the agreement (against election promises) leading to the maidan unrests. 

Seeing things fall out of their control, they invaded the first time. And used the russian fifth column (placed there by soviet population politics) as an excuse for an ongoing conflict and now a second invasion. 

During the preceding years both committed war crimes, though nothing to the extent and one sidedness as russia propaganda claims.

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Cauldron worked in Mariaupol, Liman, Severodonets, etc.


Cauldron is if the defender is cut off from logistical support or friendly troops. Encircled. 

mariupol is an exemple. Happened already at start invasion though.

Liman? No, forces retreated
Severodonetsk, no, forces retreated to lisischansk. 

For 2 months we have been hearing daily claims that the ukranian donbass troops are going to be encircled and destroyed…..this never happened. Which is logical seeing the russian advances are very very slow


----------



## ZeGerman

Viet said:


> It’s you who lives in fantasy. Ukraine is not Swiss. The Swiss neutrality is respected by Germany, France, Italy. Ukraine neutrality is respected by whom?
> Russia conducts a war of extermination no propaganda can hide it. Putin has put his intentions in his manifesto.
> Any aggressor needs an excuse. Oppressing russian speaking population is old an excuse. Nazi? you are dumb!
> Chinese invasion of Vietnam used the same excuse they said we oppressed chinese speaking population.


Yeah. And they are completely ignorant to the fact that the soviets regularly employed such population relocation tactics to supress the locals and gain influence through a russian fifth column. 

Actually ukranian security and sovereignity was supposed to be respected by russia as part of the deal to give up the ukranian nukes. We see again how “trustworthy” the russians are.


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## Viet

The German gov gets the greenlight to spend 100 billion euros extra on weapons purchases. The biggest opposition party in Bundestag has given their Ok.
The biggest ever military build up in history.
New fighter jets: Typhoon, F35, FCas.
New tanks
New helicopter
New missile umbrella against aerial attack
New warships
Now Moscow accuses Germany of re-militarization.
Funny.









Air force to get largest share of Germany's 100 billion euro defence bulk-up


The lion's share of the 100 billion euro special fund Germany is allocating to rebuilding its military after Russia's invasion of Ukraine will go to the air force, according to a document seen by Reuters.




www.reuters.com










A German Eurofighter lands at Mihail Kogalniceanu air base near the Black Sea, in Constanta, Romania, February 17, 2022. Inquam Photos/George Calin via REUTERS

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## Gomig-21

Raffie said:


> but there would be no technical issues preventing arming Rafale-C/B with up to 39 Meteors and 9 MICA-NG



Wuuuuuut?!?! LOL! Are you serious? 39 meteors AND 9 MICAs on a single Rafale?  

I surprised myself getting to that phrase considering how long and packed with stats and info that post was. Not sure why you got an infraction for it, I didn't see anything derogatory but then again, I did skip through some of it just so I wouldn't fall asleep. But that 39 + 9 missiles on a single Rafale made me fall off my chair.  

And where is the source for the uranium exports list you posted a week ago that I asked you for? If you want readers to take you seriously, post sources on lists and things of that sort. It would help your cred a lot more.

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## KendoKhan

DF41 said:


> Let us talk of the transgressions against Russia created by USA and NATO and the blatant killing of Russian speakers in Eastern part of Ukraine encouraged by USA and NATO that caused Russia to finally react after 8 over years of patience.
> 
> Why do you want to talk of the end part and not the way the war was caused by USA and NATO?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you must be kidding if you think you a brown banana with the rights of white British and the same rights as that of the white financiers.
> 
> *GROW UP!
> OR YOU END UP WHERE THE SUN AND MOON DO NOT SHINE AND COCKROACHES ROAM
> AS YOU OTHERWISE GOT NOTHING INTELLIGENT TO TELL ME OR ANYONE WITH BRAINS
> 
> YOU CAN TELL THE COCKROACHES THOUGH, AND THOSE ALREADY THERE.*
> 
> View attachment 850587


I know it must be difficult for your racist and tiny brain to process, but I do enjoy all the rights and privileges of any other citizen in this country.

Now if you want to take your filthy mentality elsewhere... as for Russia, Putin's Russsia is toast. Ukraine will break the bear.

Russia is officially bankrupt.

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## ZeGerman

So lets talk geopolitics. 

Situation januari: 
Europe and russia starting closer ties. Germany close to open nordstream 2 (despite american pressure) 

European defense spending/readiness all time low. 

Usa/EU relations weakened (thanks to trump and continuing differing interests)

Capacity gas supplied to europe 10 times that compared to gas to china

Ukraine in frozen conflict. Seeking closer ties eu and nato, but still remaining far away in this process. 


Now russia COULD have sought diplomacy and trade to resolve matters with ukraine, then gain immense wealth through trade and european integration. 

HOWEVER, they preferred their “stick and..stick” apporach..what the soviets always had done and why so many former warsaw pact came running and screaming to nato for protection. 

Sure…if they could have pulled off a full takeover in a week…things would return somewhat to normal. By the time the EU would have finished their first debate things would be over already. 
(though still high risk of long insurgancy and long troubled relations/sanctions).

However now russia is:
100 days in a war of attrition with no exit in sight. High russian losses of men and military equipment…constant inflow of arms and support for ukraine. 

Under heavy long term sanctions…from their main customers….now thanks to the post corona trade issues this disruption is good for resource prices…in a few years they will lose most of their market. And china will then be able to set the price…

Nation building moment in ukraine…against russian influence. Full in western camp now.

Usa gained the opportunity to get europa back in its grasp

As a result of russian aggression, nato is set to expand with multiple countries. 

Nato vs russian military spending was already heavily lopsided….now europe is doubling defence spending…dwarfing the russian spending even more. 

European/russian ties heavily damaged for many years. 

A complete disaster really….the pain is buffered by the high resource prices (eu did unfortunately not stock up on gas…the idiots…) but this will be temporary. Russia will get hit militarily, economically, and in prestige that will set them back decades. 

Winners? USA, China. 
Losers? Russia, Ukraine, EU, third world nations (food prices)

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## Viet

ZeGerman said:


> So lets talk geopolitics.
> 
> Situation januari:
> Europe and russia starting closer ties. Germany close to open nordstream 2 (despite american pressure)
> 
> European defense spending/readiness all time low.
> 
> Usa/EU relations weakened (thanks to trump and continuing differing interests)
> 
> Capacity gas supplied to europe 10 times that compared to gas to china
> 
> Ukraine in frozen conflict. Seeking closer ties eu and nato, but still remaining far away in this process.
> 
> 
> Now russia COULD have sought diplomacy and trade to resolve matters with ukraine, then gain immense wealth through trade and european integration.
> 
> HOWEVER, they preferred their “stick and..stick” apporach..what the soviets always had done and why so many former warsaw pact came running and screaming to nato for protection.
> 
> Sure…if they could have pulled off a full takeover in a week…things would return somewhat to normal. By the time the EU would have finished their first debate things would be over already.
> (though still high risk of long insurgancy and long troubled relations/sanctions).
> 
> However now russia is:
> 100 days in a war of attrition with no exit in sight. High russian losses of men and military equipment…constant inflow of arms and support for ukraine.
> 
> Under heavy long term sanctions…from their main customers….now thanks to the post corona trade issues this disruption is good for resource prices…in a few years they will lose most of their market. And china will then be able to set the price…
> 
> Nation building moment in ukraine…against russian influence. Full in western camp now.
> 
> Usa gained the opportunity to get europa back in its grasp
> 
> As a result of russian aggression, nato is set to expand with multiple countries.
> 
> Nato vs russian military spending was already heavily lopsided….now europe is doubling defence spending…dwarfing the russian spending even more.
> 
> European/russian ties heavily damaged for many years.
> 
> A complete disaster really….the pain is buffered by the high resource prices (eu did unfortunately not stock up on gas…the idiots…) but this will be temporary. Russia will get hit militarily, economically, and in prestige that will set them back decades.
> 
> Winners? USA, China.
> Losers? Russia, Ukraine, EU, third world nations (food prices)


Good analysis
About why Germany gas reserves run low. Very easy to understand. Unbelievable, but Germany biggest gas storage tanks belong to Gazprom aka Putin. He planned this war long hand. He emptied the tanks to close 0. Yes zero. Then he started the war. The Germans were naive. Germany even approved northstream 2 in opposition to the US. They are caught by surprise. The gas prices escalated. Putin smiled.
Putin plays a game of a gangster.

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## jamahir

Wolfhunter said:


> Russia is fucked you commie shitbird. Cry some more on the interwebs waaaaaa waaaaaa waaaaaa ma communism, waaaaaaaa.



When Russia-radiated waters flow along the Thames you will not be so confident.



Wolfhunter said:


> **** Russia with a 12 foot dildo mounted onto a horny donkey.



Eh ? Don't put out your daily doings on the interwebz. And leave donkeys out of it please.

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## jamahir

Wolfhunter said:


> Go suck Putin's dick you stupid cunt. Listen to yourself 😂. Flippin doolally bengali version of uncle Tom. 😂



Full gangsta I see. Just back from pub hopping, eh ?

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## jamahir

Wolfhunter said:


> I'll drink a pint and piss it in your name if it makes you feel any better you pathetic wingnut. Everyone is ten men on the internet, only difference is I can back up the cheques my mouth is writing.
> 
> Now be a nice little brown boy, sit down and let the men do the talking. Putin wouldn't piss on your kind if you were on fire.



So you are a psycho, football-fan EDL type. I never pretended to be "ten men". And you must decide if you want to insult Putin or be respectful to him.

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## jamahir

Wolfhunter said:


> I'll tell you one thing fella, I'm not Going to mince my word with a filthy piece of shit commie like you who would justify Putins actions in Ukraine.
> 
> I really wish this were in person so I could let my fists do the talking with your stupid face. Alas I cant do that so I have to take satisfaction in the fact that showing you the mirror and revealing how insane your pro Putin rhetoric sounds.
> 
> You stupid cunt.



1. Yes I am a commie and what's your problem with commies ?

2. Putin is not a commie but even the Russian Communist party which differs with Putin on many things supports his government on the Ukraine operation.

3. Leave my gentlemanly face out of this, it might charm your sister and wife.

4. Why should my pro-Russia words sound insane but your pro-NATO words shouldn't ? NATO is a criminal, genocidal, war-criming, regime-changing and criminal proxy militias supporting entity since its establishment in 1949. Who is the insane one now ?

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## jamahir

Wolfhunter said:


> I dont have a sister but I will gladly Rodger your mother for you and spawn a better creature than you - you miserable commie cretin.



Yeah you so sound such a "better creature" yourself.  



Wolfhunter said:


> As for your beloved Russians, their soldiers are paving the fields of Ukraine with their blood and pushing up sunflowers and daisies.



Your poetic romanticism is right up there with the march of the SS 80 years ago.

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## khansaheeb

KendoKhan said:


> Yes I am and proud to be part of it. It's called serving your country... And this is off-topic
> 
> 
> I don't hate "Russians", I do however hate Putin's actions and the actions of his military in Ukraine.


If you feel that strongly then go and fight in Ukraine. Or is your loyalty only as far as the keyboard?

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## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> The German gov gets the greenlight to spend 100 billion euros extra on weapons purchases. The biggest opposition party in Bundestag has given their Ok.
> The biggest ever military build up in history.
> New fighter jets: Typhoon, F35, FCas.
> New tanks
> New helicopter
> New missile umbrella against aerial attack
> New warships
> Now Moscow accuses Germany of re-militarization.
> Funny.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Air force to get largest share of Germany's 100 billion euro defence bulk-up
> 
> 
> The lion's share of the 100 billion euro special fund Germany is allocating to rebuilding its military after Russia's invasion of Ukraine will go to the air force, according to a document seen by Reuters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A German Eurofighter lands at Mihail Kogalniceanu air base near the Black Sea, in Constanta, Romania, February 17, 2022. Inquam Photos/George Calin via REUTERS



The fact that Germany will take its own defence and that of neighbouring countries is a welcome sign - it is sad/dissappointing that is took the invasion and occupation of a European Democracy for Germany to realise that when everyone has been screaming at Germany for decades to take defence seriously.......

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## Vergennes

So we are nearly two months after "Russia's second phase". Despite outnumbering the Ukrainians on every terms,after constantly revising their objectives down and levelling every town and village on their way,they only have been able to advance less than 20km from their initial positions and this at the cost of heavy human and material losses.

Seems like even encircling severodonest and lysychansk is too hard for them.

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## MajesticPug

No you got the historical timeline mixed up to fit your political agenda. But that's normal for someone who doesn't want to be woke up. This discussion is way off course from this thread and long enough to nowhere.


A.P. Richelieu said:


> Mao was well aware of the invasion plans before the invasion started, and started threatening to join the war as soon as the United Nations landed in South Korea.

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## A.P. Richelieu

MajesticPug said:


> No you got the historical timeline mixed up to fit your political agenda. But that's normal for someone who doesn't want to be woke up. This discussion is way off course from this thread and long enough to nowhere.


North Korea starts the war: June 25.
Incheon Landings Sept 15.
Chinese Warning. Sept 30.
We would not be here if the stupid claim that NATO started the Korean War had not been made.


----------



## ZeGerman

Vergennes said:


> So we are nearly two months after "Russia's second phase". Despite outnumbering the Ukrainians on every terms,after constantly revising their objectives down and levelling every town and village on their way,they only have been able to advance less than 20km from their initial positions and this at the cost of heavy human and material losses.
> 
> Seems like even encircling severodonest and lysychansk is too hard for them.
> 
> View attachment 850712
> 
> View attachment 850713


And for every day of those two months we see that somali al-shabab poster regurgitate kadirov twitter propaganda on how 20.000 ukranians are encircled ANY second now. 

Or showing few pows or a handfull of
Demoralised ukranian troops as sign of a collapsing ukranian resistance ANY second now.

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## khansaheeb

Wolfhunter said:


> He's serving his adopted country in the reserves, what are you doing you stupid cunt? Lining up at the Job Centre no doubt? Or let me guess, driving an uber? STFU and learn to respect people. I am proud of people who come to our country and serve it.
> 
> If you love Putin so much get the **** out of our country, go to Russia if they will have you. Pathetic lot!





Wolfhunter said:


> He's serving his adopted country in the reserves, what are you doing you stupid cunt? Lining up at the Job Centre no doubt? Or let me guess, driving an uber? STFU and learn to respect people. I am proud of people who come to our country and serve it.
> 
> If you love Putin so much get the **** out of our country, go to Russia if they will have you. Pathetic lot!


I am not even in the UK, lol. whether I am on the dole or driving Uber what is it got to do with you? UK is my country as much as yours. I paid taxes for your education and your fatherless child benefits. I will fight for whoever I need and want to , don't need your perverted hindjew advice. You most likely aren't British anyway. Now be a good little poodle and go and fight for Ukraine. You feel strongly for others to die for your cause now **** off and fight yourself.

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## Wolfhunter

khansaheeb said:


> I am not even in the UK, lol. whether I am on the dole or driving Uber what is it got to do with you? UK is my country as much as yours. I paid taxes for your education and your fatherless child benefits. I will fight for whoever I need and want to , don't need your perverted hindjew advice. You most likely aren't British anyway. Now be a good little poodle and go and fight for Ukraine. You feel strongly for others to die for your cause now **** off and fight yourself.





> I am not even in the UK, lol.


Something tells me you are lying


> I am on the dole or driving Uber what is it got to do with you?


Because if you are on the dole, my taxes and the taxes of every working Briton pays for your tummy. Be greatful!


> UK is my country as much as yours.


And yet you called out someone who is a reservist in the British Army... GTFO


> I paid taxes for your education and your fatherless child benefits


Correction... The UK Government paid for my education, I am in my 40's, so most likely you were a sperm in your daddy's pants when I left school! 


> will fight for whoever I need and want to , don't need your perverted hindjew advice


You will serve the UK or you are free to leave the UK, secondly don't compare me to any filthy brownie hindus.... Yuk!


> You most likely aren't British anyway


Don't need to prove it to some random fuckwit on the internet, but I am ENGLISH, not BRITISH!

More footage of commies getting fucked in the arse!

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531825143747686400
Glory to Ukraine!


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532755140255547392

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## Wolfhunter

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532755140255547392


Glory to Ukraine!

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532742586737348608

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Azov, Aidar and Bandera types are dispersed all over the Ukrainian military but a lot of the military is also composed of civilians forcibly brought into it on the threat of long jail terms and those who vocally want to leave after this drafting are taken to destinations unknown. Go through the previous few pages of this thread and you will see vids of Ukrainian units saying they won't fight and one drafted person from just yesterday saying the previous lines.
> 
> 
> 
> After ? It was a very possible possibility hence the pre-emptive action by Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> Many Ukrainian scientists were voluntarily part of USSR's programs including space.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't hate The West but the Capitalist-imperialist governments of the West.  You as a Westerner will live a much better life without Capitalism imposing on you everyday.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh Bucha... Whatever became of that "Russia-made genocide" ?  Let me ask your German-Greek comrade @Apollon who during the time it supposedly happened was going on and on about ebeel Russians but he now speaks not one word about it, LOL, and during that time Russia was the first one to ask for impartial investigation. So you tell me what became of it.



German foreign Minister Baerbock just yesterday said we will continue to supply heavy weapons till Russia is crushed in Ukraine and no Bucha can happen again. 


I agree with her.


On a sidenote i find Russia repulsive and rather ewwww. The more the contact is cut off, the better. 


You have no clue how disgusting it is for someone with higher cultural standards to be forced near people with lower standards.

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## Steppe Wolff

Sad. A war thread has been turned into a retard fest.

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## khansaheeb

Wolfhunter said:


> Something tells me you are lying
> 
> Because if you are on the dole, my taxes and the taxes of every working Briton pays for your tummy. Be greatful!
> 
> And yet you called out someone who is a reservist in the British Army... GTFO
> 
> Correction... The UK Government paid for my education, I am in my 40's, so most likely you were a sperm in your daddy's pants when I left school!
> 
> You will serve the UK or you are free to leave the UK, secondly don't compare me to any filthy brownie hindus.... Yuk!
> 
> Don't need to prove it to some random fuckwit on the internet, but I am ENGLISH, not BRITISH!
> 
> More footage of commies getting fucked in the arse!
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531825143747686400
> Glory to Ukraine!


Did your father say that to your mother when he asked your mother if you were his child? -"Something tells me you are lying". 

Unlike you I am sitting in sunny California and not some third world shitty colonial fantasist island led by a clown. Now stick to playing poker with children in the church English man and suffer the cold and rain while I bask in freedom and wealth in the USA. Suffer your low pay and the high inflation and the ever increasing dole queues in the land of lost hope and no glory. So ar$ehole where does the UK gov get money from? From people like me of course who send hard currency to the UK than the loud mouth little men like you.

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## KendoKhan

Vergennes said:


> So we are nearly two months after "Russia's second phase". Despite outnumbering the Ukrainians on every terms,after constantly revising their objectives down and levelling every town and village on their way,they only have been able to advance less than 20km from their initial positions and this at the cost of heavy human and material losses.
> 
> Seems like even encircling severodonest and lysychansk is too hard for them.
> 
> View attachment 850712
> 
> View attachment 850713


The Ukrainians truly fight like lions.


----------



## DF41

KendoKhan said:


> but I do enjoy all the rights and privileges of any other citizen in this country.









Brown banana, thinking that he squeaky white inside and that he as white as any other white



Off you go to where sun and moon never shine on and cockroaches and other low life there your bosom companions.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## kingQamaR

Wolfhunter said:


> Wannabe brown commies crying in this thread:
> View attachment 850735



Why do you think it is good for black people? Communism is pretty bad for everyone, irrespective of skin colour


----------



## Steppe Wolff

Apollon said:


> German foreign Minister Baerbock just yesterday said we will continue to supply heavy weapons till Russia is crushed in Ukraine and no Bucha can happen again.


Germans can larp all they want, but entire Donbass is going to be Russian in a few months maybe less. Russians are advancing in East albeit slowly. 

Kherson front is static. Ukrainian recent counter offensive proved to be a joke.

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## Wolfhunter

kingQamaR said:


> Why do you think it is good for black people? Communism is pretty bad for everyone, irrespective of skin colour


My response is aimed at a few self proclaimed communists here from Bangladesh and Pakistan. Communism is a cancer!



khansaheeb said:


> From people like me of course who send hard currency to the UK than the loud mouth little men like you.


Waaaaaaaambulance.... Typical response of someone who has nothing of value to come back with.


----------



## kingQamaR

Wolfhunter said:


> Something tells me you are lying
> 
> Because if you are on the dole, my taxes and the taxes of every working Briton pays for your tummy. Be greatful!
> 
> And yet you called out someone who is a reservist in the British Army... GTFO
> 
> Correction... The UK Government paid for my education, I am in my 40's, so most likely you were a sperm in your daddy's pants when I left school!
> 
> You will serve the UK or you are free to leave the UK, secondly don't compare me to any filthy brownie hindus.... Yuk!
> 
> Don't need to prove it to some random fuckwit on the internet, but I am ENGLISH, not BRITISH!
> 
> More footage of commies getting fucked in the arse!
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531825143747686400
> Glory to Ukraine!




No!

As a Pakistani person, we have a certain saying!

“Whew, he's just an a****** to everybody at least he's not racist to everybody!

So we would prefer the butthead over the closet racist like you any day!

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## Wolfhunter

DF41 said:


> Brown banana, thinking that he squeaky white inside and that he as white as any other white
> 
> 
> 
> Off you go to where sun and moon never shine on and cockroaches and other low life there your bosom companions.


Oh look another yellow commie cunt spotted! See how that works?

He's more than welcome in our country, because. Keep eating those watermelon seeds, you are clearly addled on communism and your brain has escaped reality.


----------



## Apollon

Steppe Wolff said:


> Germans can larp all they want, but entire Donbass is going to be Russian in a few months maybe less. Russians are advancing in East albeit slowly.
> 
> Kherson front is static. Ukrainian recent counter offensive proved to be a joke.



Kharkov and Odessa are saved. What matters now is to completly destroy anything in donbass. Russia is dirtpoor and cant rebuild. Look at Mariupol which was Industrial center. Russia now has no plans above "beach resort". 


Thats what its about. Till 2014 Ukraine was 100% under Russian controle. Now only 20% left and whats there gets destroyed. At same time Russia gets heavily damaged, NATO grows and Europe arms up. 


And the best thing is, this can go on forever.


----------



## Wolfhunter

kingQamaR said:


> No!
> 
> As a Pakistani person, we have a certain saying!
> 
> “Whew, he's just an a****** to everybody at least he's not racist to everybody!
> 
> So we would prefer the butthead over the closet racist like you any day!


Me a closet racist? Hahahah, if you only but knew. But hey ho carry on. Perhaps you should read a few pages up why I have said what I have. And I will continue to say it, seeing brownies playing wannabe communities here is beyond funny.


----------



## khansaheeb

Wolfhunter said:


> Wannabe brown commies crying in this thread:
> View attachment 850735


Ukraine has lost the war boast as much as you want. 20 Million refugees, infrastructure destroyed, economy in ruins, their women and children being abused in foreign countries, nothing to to be proud of sad as it is.

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## The SC

Ukrainian Foreign Legion prepares to fight the Russians again in Donetsk


----------



## KendoKhan

RUSI Reflects: The Russia–Ukraine Air War​Justin Bronk
*18 March 20227 Minute Watch*

Research Fellow Justin Bronk shares the lessons he thinks Western powers should draw from the first three weeks of the Ukrainian air war, and what opportunities NATO countries now have to 'fill the gaps' in their defensive capabilities, in preparation for the possibility that Russian forces build back up after a potential ceasefire.


----------



## Steppe Wolff

Apollon said:


> Kharkov and Odessa are saved. What matters now is to completly destroy anything in donbass. Russia is dirtpoor and cant rebuild. Look at Mariupol which was Industrial center. Russia now has no plans above "beach resort".
> 
> 
> Thats what its about. Till 2014 Ukraine was 100% under Russian controle. Now only 20% left and whats there gets destroyed. At same time Russia gets heavily damaged, NATO grows and Europe arms up.
> 
> 
> And the best thing is, this can go on forever.


Too early to say Odessa is saved. After Donbass, Odessa will be the new front. And Ukraine will be finished if they lost their sea access.

And Russia is not exactly dirt poor as you say. Don’t exaggerate please.



The SC said:


> Ukrainian Foreign Legion prepares to fight the Russians again in Donetsk


Looks like they have not learned the lesson after what happened to the last foreign legion which got hammered brutally.

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## Wolfhunter

khansaheeb said:


> Ukraine has lost the war boast as much as you want. 20 Million refugees, infrastructure destroyed, economy in ruins, their women and children being abused in foreign countries, nothing to to be proud of sad as it is.


Ahem:
*Russian military leadership continues to experience complications with sufficient force generation and maintaining the morale of mobilized personnel.* The Ukrainian General Staff reported that the Donetsk People’s Republic’s (DNR) 1st Army Corps, under Russia’s 8th Combined Arms Army, is conducting forced mobilization in occupied areas of Donetsk Oblast.

[2] Russian forced mobilization is highly unlikely to generate meaningful combat power and will exacerbate low morale and poor discipline in Russian and proxy units. 

The 113th Regiment of the DNR posted a video appeal to Russian President Vladimir Putin on June 2 wherein forcibly-mobilized soldiers complain they have spent the entire war on the frontline in Kherson without food or medicine, and that mobilization committees did not conduct requisite medical screenings and admitted individuals whose medical conditions should have disqualified them from service.

[3] Ukraine’s Main Intelligence Directorate additionally released an intercepted phone conversation wherein DNR soldiers similarly complained that physically unfit individuals were forced into service and that mobilized units are experiencing mass drunkenness and general disorder.

[4] Russian forces are additionally struggling to successfully rotate servicemen in and out of combat. Spokesperson for the Odesa Military Administration Maksym Marchenko stated that 30 to 40% of Russian personnel that rotated out of Ukraine refused to return, forcing Russian commanders to send unprepared and unmotivated units back into combat.

[5] This is consistent with complaints made by DNR servicemen that rotation practices are contributing to poor morale and dissatisfaction within units that have been forcibly mobilized.[6]

Source:





Institute for the Study of War


Russian forces continued to make incremental, grinding, and costly progress in eastern Ukraine on June 2. Russian troops continued operations to capture Severodonetsk and further operations to capture Lysychansk. Russian military leadership will likely




www.understandingwar.org


----------



## The SC

Russian bombing of Ukrainian mercenaries

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## Wolfhunter

The SC said:


> Russian bombing of Ukrainian mercenaries
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian bombing of Ukrainian mercenaries




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531825143747686400


----------



## The SC

Drone surveys and determines the coordinates of Russian bombing of a Ukrainian target


----------



## Wolfhunter

The SC said:


> Drone surveys and determines the coordinates of Russian bombing of a Ukrainian target




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532724202612080643


----------



## kingQamaR

The amount of territory taken is less important than than its location. If Odessa is conquered, & the industrial region captured, the Russians will have severed Ukraines access to the sea, appropriated the offshore gas & vast mineral resources, including valuable lithium, & reduced Ukraine to Russias captive breadbasket, as it was in the days of the USSR


----------



## Wolfhunter

kingQamaR said:


> The amount of territory taken is less important than than its location. If Odessa is conquered, & the industrial region captured, the Russians will have severed Ukraines access to the sea, appropriated the offshore gas & vast mineral resources, including valuable lithium, & reduced Ukraine to Russias captive breadbasket, as it was in the days of the USSR











A Russian Attack On Odessa Could Be Naval Suicide


Russia had a chance to cut off Ukraine from the sea. It blew it. Now it’s highly likely, however and whenever the war ends, that Ukraine still will have access to sea trade—and an opportunity to rebuild its economy.




www.forbes.com


----------



## The SC

Russian Defense: Ukraine is fabricating new clips


----------



## Apollon

Steppe Wolff said:


> Too early to say Odessa is saved. After Donbass, Odessa will be the new front. And Ukraine will be finished if they lost their sea access.
> 
> And Russia is not exactly dirt poor as you say. Don’t exaggerate please.
> 
> 
> Looks like they have not learned the lesson after what happened to the last foreign legion which got hammered brutally.



Russia is a shithole. It is dirt poor. Odessa is stocked up with anti ship weapons. It will be protected. 

Strategy is clear, dissolve Russia in Ukraine. Kill as much of their soldiers as possible on constant rate and kill their officials. Like that governor who was blown up while visiting his mother. 

Donbass will be in constant war state. 


At same time the attacks in russian infrastructure inside Russia should continue. 


I think keeping this running for years is beneficial.


----------



## Wolfhunter

The SC said:


> Russian Defense: Ukraine is fabricating new clips





The Russians Got Caught Faking A TB-2 Drone Shoot-Down



opps, you're beloved Russians caught lying again.


----------



## DF41

ZeGerman said:


> Lets not pretend history stops 8 years ago but go further back.
> 
> Ukraine was the bread basket of the soviet union, however 4 million ukranians starved to death under stalins rule.
> 
> This and more are the reason ukranians want sovereignity. One that was finally given to them 30 years ago, with a vow from russia to respect their safety and territorial integrity as long as ukraine would get rid of its many nucleair weapons.
> 
> However russia likes to either occupy its former warsaw pact “allies” or expects them to be subservient slaves to russian interests. As soon as ukraine wanted closer ties to the EU they influenced their corrupt puppet to rip up the agreement (against election promises) leading to the maidan unrests.
> 
> Seeing things fall out of their control, they invaded the first time. And used the russian fifth column (placed there by soviet population politics) as an excuse for an ongoing conflict and now a second invasion.
> 
> During the preceding years both committed war crimes, though nothing to the extent and one sidedness as russia propaganda claims.


With your kind of crap talk I know of an ideal place for you .  

Very soothing and you need not fear getting sunburn .

And where I do not see whatever you want to say


----------



## khansaheeb

Apollon said:


> Kharkov and Odessa are saved. What matters now is to completly destroy anything in donbass. Russia is dirtpoor and cant rebuild. Look at Mariupol which was Industrial center. Russia now has no plans above "beach resort".
> 
> 
> Thats what its about. Till 2014 Ukraine was 100% under Russian controle. Now only 20% left and whats there gets destroyed. At same time Russia gets heavily damaged, NATO grows and Europe arms up.
> 
> 
> And the best thing is, this can go on forever.


Stop fantasizing, What stops Russia from flattening Kiev with a Dresden type blitz or dropping Two nukes like Hiroshima and Nagasaki? You think NATO will retaliate? Russia is playing with gloves on, be careful the day they take the gloves off. Peace will only come through negotiation, why not negotiate now than millions of dead later?

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## Wolfhunter

DF41 said:


> With your kind of crap talk I know of an ideal place for you .
> 
> Very soothing and you need not fear getting sunburn .
> 
> And where I do not see whatever you want to say


Lucky for him, he doesn't live in that shithole of a country you call China!



khansaheeb said:


> Stop fantasizing, What stops Russia from flattening Kiev


Tell me you're clueless without telling me you're clueless!


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532672065244909569

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532670481849098240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532668680189911040


----------



## KendoKhan

khansaheeb said:


> Stop fantasizing, What stops Russia from flattening Kiev with a Dresden type blitz or dropping Two nukes like Hiroshima and Nagasaki? You think NATO will retaliate? Russia is playing with gloves on, be careful the day they take the gloves off. Peace will only come through negotiation, why not negotiate now than millions of dead later?


What are you smoking please?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Apollon

khansaheeb said:


> Stop fantasizing, What stops Russia from flattening Kiev with a Dresden type blitz or dropping Two nukes like Hiroshima and Nagasaki? You think NATO will retaliate? Russia is playing with gloves on, be careful the day they take the gloves off. Peace will only come through negotiation, why not negotiate now than millions of dead later?



We did not negotiate with Hitler. We wont negotiate with Pussolini.


Millions of dead russians is a price im more than willing to pay

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532472985738698767


----------



## kingQamaR

Wolfhunter said:


> A Russian Attack On Odessa Could Be Naval Suicide
> 
> 
> Russia had a chance to cut off Ukraine from the sea. It blew it. Now it’s highly likely, however and whenever the war ends, that Ukraine still will have access to sea trade—and an opportunity to rebuild its economy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com



Interesting


----------



## Wolfhunter

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532672065244909569
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532670481849098240
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532668680189911040




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/636114824808800256


The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532472985738698767


Russians getting their arse handed to them;


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532750122450288640


Apollon said:


> We did not negotiate with Hitler. We wont negotiate with Pussolini.
> 
> 
> Millions of dead russians is a price im more than willing to pay


*Damn right, **** Putin with a 12 foot dildo...*


----------



## kingQamaR

Odessa sits on the coast of the Black Sea and is a port city. So they really really would like to take it. But the way things are going right now I don’t think they have a chance now


----------



## Vergennes

lmao


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532003904321425409

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

kingQamaR said:


> Odessa sits on the coast of the Black Sea and is a port city. So they really really would like to take it. But the way things are going right now I don’t think they have a chance now




Russia has no chance of taking Odessa

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## Wolfhunter

Vergennes said:


> lmao
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532003904321425409


Putin's Russia is toast! It's totally fucked!


----------



## khansaheeb

KendoKhan said:


> What are you smoking please?


Being a realist and not dreaming of victory that isn't coming. But your answers to my question would be a good start. If the US feel justified in Nuking Japan to end the war quickly then why can't Russia use the same doctrine? This is just a cold blooded analysis and not a view.

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## Wolfhunter

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia has no chance of taking Odessa


It's just the usual "hope" dream of Russian loyalists and bum chums thinking somehow Russia will pull out a rabbit out of the hat, meanwhile in typical crazy dictator, Putin keeps seeking his Wunderwaffen to "conquer" Ukraine.


----------



## KendoKhan

khansaheeb said:


> Being a realist and not dreaming of victory that isn't coming. But your answers to my question would be a good start. If the US feel justified in Nuking Japan to end the war quickly then why can't Russia use the same doctrine? This is just a cold blooded analysis and not a view.


That will never happen, the moment a strategic weapon is deployed it’s “game on” and we all end up dead.


----------



## khansaheeb

Apollon said:


> We did not negotiate with Hitler. We wont negotiate with Pussolini.
> 
> 
> Millions of dead russians is a price im more than willing to pay


Hitler didn't have nukes to wipe out the world.


----------



## KendoKhan

khansaheeb said:


> Hitler didn't have nukes to wipe out the world.


Russia won’t use strategic weapons.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> lmao
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532003904321425409




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532347061990981636

The Russians have lost it. The US would bulldoze Russia. The rate of Russian losses we've seen in 
Ukraine is nothing compared to what the US would inflict.

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## Wolfhunter

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532347061990981636
> 
> The Russians have lost it. The US would bulldoze Russia. The rate of Russian losses we've seen in
> Ukraine is nothing compared to what the US would inflict.


Hahah what are they going to target US bases with? 

*This cold war piece of shite? *


----------



## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532347061990981636
> 
> The Russians have lost it. The US would bulldoze Russia. The rate of Russian losses we've seen in
> Ukraine is nothing compared to what the US would inflict.



Russians truly live in a lalaland. The awakening will be brutal for them and their bootlickers.

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## Wolfhunter

Putin's Russia is Kaput:









China Bans Stolen Russian Planes from Entering its Airspace


https://www.occrp.org/en/daily/16397-china-bans-stolen-russian-planes-from-entering-its-airspace China banned all of Russia’s Airbuses and Boeings from entering its airspace. China’s civil aviation authority banned Monday all of Russia’s Airbuses and Boeings from entering Chinese airspace —...



defence.pk

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## Steppe Wolff

Apollon said:


> Strategy is clear, dissolve Russia in Ukraine. Kill as much of their soldiers as possible on constant rate and kill their officials. Like that governor who was blown up while visiting his mother.
> Donbass will be in constant war state. At same time the attacks in russian infrastructure inside Russia should continue.


Russia can today flatten entire Ukraine by carpet bombing the shit of it or just simply nuking it. Ukraine and West can’t do shit about it.

They have been playing gently uptill now and Ukrainians and their handlers should hope they continue to do that.

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## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> Stop fantasizing, What stops Russia from flattening Kiev with a Dresden type blitz or dropping Two nukes like Hiroshima and Nagasaki? You think NATO will retaliate? Russia is playing with gloves on, be careful the day they take the gloves off. Peace will only come through negotiation, why not negotiate now than millions of dead later?


Yes, what exactly did stop Russia from firebombing Kyiv? They have no problem level Kharkiv or Mariupol, so exactly why they aren't doing it in the last 90 or so days? I have been in Kyiv, apart from a few apartment block being levelled. There were nothing even remotely damaged.

Let me give you a hint, there is a reason why Russia lost ~60 fighter in Kyiv area in the last 90 days or so, that place have more SAM than you can count, Russia have satellite, they know how heavy Kyiv was defended with Anti-Air.

As for nuking Kyiv. Well, considering Kyiv is around 469 miles from Moscow. Nuking Kyiv with any type of tactical nuclear device is probably going to be the same as nuking Moscow if the wind blow East, unless Russia have ways to control wind direction or radiation, they aren't going to nuke Moscow, oh sorry, I mean Kyiv...

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## Wolfhunter

Steppe Wolff said:


> Russia can today flatten entire Ukraine by carpet bombing the shit of it or just simply nuking it. Ukraine and West can’t do shit about it.
> 
> They have been playing gently uptill now and Ukrainians and their handlers should hope they continue to do that.


Wet dreams!


----------



## Steppe Wolff

@Wolfhunter Don’t quote me again. Racists like you are on my ignore list.

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## Wolfhunter

Steppe Wolff said:


> @Wolfhunter Don’t quote me again. Racists like you are on my ignore list.











Spoiler: Secret Russian Weapon Exposed





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1250367718903222273


----------



## kingQamaR

Wolfhunter said:


> Wet dreams!



Already land the size of UK is under Russian rule in the Donbass, 100 town and cities all under Russian control, water switched back on to the Crimea, the entire AZ.OV battalion currently incarcerated in Russia, a land Corridor to Crimea, the entire AZ.OV coastline Russian, if that is losing what is winning?

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## Wolfhunter

kingQamaR said:


> Already land the size of UK is under Russian rule in the Donbass, 100 town and cities all under Russian control, water switched back on to the Crimea, the entire AZ.OV battalion currently incarcerated in Russia, a land Corridor to Crimea, the entire AZ.OV coastline Russian, if that is losing what is winning?





> Already land the size of UK is under Russian rule in the Donbass


Tentatively 


> 100 town and cities all under Russian control


See reply above


> the entire AZ.OV battalion currently incarcerated in Russia


Lol, if you say so pal. What are your sources? "Trust me Bro"?


> if that is losing what is winning?


Russia has lost the war...

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Steppe Wolff

kingQamaR said:


> Already land the size of UK is under Russian rule in the Donbass, 100 town and cities all under Russian control, water switched back on to the Crimea, the entire AZ.OV battalion currently incarcerated in Russia, a land Corridor to Crimea, the entire AZ.OV coastline Russian, if that is losing what is winning?


They are being blinded by Western propaganda machine. Even if kiev falls right now, they’ll spin it as a UKr victory too.

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## Apollon

khansaheeb said:


> Hitler didn't have nukes to wipe out the world.



Neither has Pussolini. He is a coward. All his minions kids are in the west.

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## Wolfhunter

Apollon said:


> Neither has Pussolini. He is a coward. All his minions kids are in the west.


These wannabe commies have a hardon for Putinski for some reason.


----------



## Apollon

Steppe Wolff said:


> Russia can today flatten entire Ukraine by carpet bombing the shit of it or just simply nuking it. Ukraine and West can’t do shit about it.
> 
> They have been playing gently uptill now and Ukrainians and their handlers should hope they continue to do that.



We have Pussolini children here. They wont nuke shit. Its a chess game. Putin gives a shit about russian soldiers. We cook them and nothing, he just sends new until he runs out of them. Funny part is, he only sends people drom outside Moscow and st petersburg.

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## KendoKhan

Steppe Wolff said:


> They are being blinded by Western propaganda machine. Even if kiev falls right now, they’ll spin it as a UKr victory too.


But Ukraine will win. That’s a fact.


----------



## Apollon

kingQamaR said:


> Already land the size of UK is under Russian rule in the Donbass, 100 town and cities all under Russian control, water switched back on to the Crimea, the entire AZ.OV battalion currently incarcerated in Russia, a land Corridor to Crimea, the entire AZ.OV coastline Russian, if that is losing what is winning?



In 2014 Russia had 100% of Ukraine. You obviously dont understand geo politics .

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> Already land the size of UK is under Russian rule in the Donbass, 100 town and cities all under Russian control, water switched back on to the Crimea, the entire AZ.OV battalion currently incarcerated in Russia, a land Corridor to Crimea, the entire AZ.OV coastline Russian, if that is losing what is winning?


That is a good question. What is winning?

For Russia, a win is for Ukraine to change its direction or completely under Russian subjugation, otherwise what is the point losing that many men and resource and literally bankrupt the country just to get some land from Donbas (most of which they had already control since 2014 to begin with) Even if Ukraine is landlocked (Which is almost impossible now), it still process a lot of Military Power and if the Ukraine before that is a threat before, then what would you call the Ukraine that left behind with a lot of US and Western weapon?

On the other hand, you can say capturing Donbas would mean all those oil and gas goes to Russia, but then you will need to be able to sell it, EU isn't going to buy any more if they don't stop buying them altogether. And Russia can sell them cheap to India or China or Africa to earn some bucks, but with sanction and their economy down the drain, even if you can earn money by selling Oil and Gas, you can't exchange it anyway. Which mean this is going to be a moot point for Russia to just capture Donbas.

With the resource they had spend and lost, and the economy done for, Russia goal should be looking at at least a complete occupation of Ukraine, any less for them is in no way a win, not with all the price that they paid, or going to pay.

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## ZeGerman

Steppe Wolff said:


> Russia can today flatten entire Ukraine by carpet bombing the shit of it or just simply nuking it. Ukraine and West can’t do shit about it.
> 
> They have been playing gently uptill now and Ukrainians and their handlers should hope they continue to do that.


1. Russia does not have air dominance over entire ukraine…
2. Flattening cities will lead to further escalation. Other countries will step in for humanitarian reasons. And Once russia then start targeting nato troops they will be crushed. They stand no chance

And russia also knows flinging nukes to nato will be the end of russia a hundred times over. 



Russia is flattening cities with artillery by the way…far from “gentle”


----------



## khansaheeb

jhungary said:


> Yes, what exactly did stop Russia from firebombing Kyiv? They have no problem level Kharkiv or Mariupol, so exactly why they aren't doing it in the last 90 or so days? I have been in Kyiv, apart from a few apartment block being levelled. There were nothing even remotely damaged.
> 
> Let me give you a hint, there is a reason why Russia lost ~60 fighter in Kyiv area in the last 90 days or so, that place have more SAM than you can count, Russia have satellite, they know how heavy Kyiv was defended with Anti-Air.
> 
> As for nuking Kyiv. Well, considering Kyiv is around 469 miles from Moscow. Nuking Kyiv with any type of tactical nuclear device is probably going to be the same as nuking Moscow if the wind blow East, unless Russia have ways to control wind direction or radiation, they aren't going to nuke Moscow, oh sorry, I mean Kyiv...


They have very small tactical nukes. They have neutron bombs too. They haven't used them but they have the option too. FOr those who are boasting how powerful Ukraine is , get real.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wolfhunter

jhungary said:


> That is a good question. What is winning?
> 
> For Russia, a win is for Ukraine to change its direction or completely under Russian subjugation, otherwise what is the point losing that many men and resource and literally bankrupt the country just to get some land from Donbas (most of which they had already control since 2014 to begin with) Even if Ukraine is landlocked (Which is almost impossible now), it still process a lot of Military Power and if the Ukraine before that is a threat before, then what would you call the Ukraine that left behind with a lot of US and Western weapon?
> 
> On the other hand, you can say capturing Donbas would mean all those oil and gas goes to Russia, but then you will need to be able to sell it, EU isn't going to buy any more if they don't stop buying them altogether. And Russia can sell them cheap to India or China or Africa to earn some bucks, but with sanction and their economy down the drain, even if you can earn money by selling Oil and Gas, you can't exchange it anyway. Which mean this is going to be a moot point for Russia to just capture Donbas.
> 
> With the resource they had spend and lost, and the economy done for, Russia goal should be looking at at least a complete occupation of Ukraine, any less for them is in no way a win, not with all the price that they paid, or going to pay.


This man/woman knows what he's talking about. 👏



khansaheeb said:


> They have very small tactical nukes. They have neutron bombs too. They haven't used them but they have the option too. FOr those who are boasting how powerful Ukraine is , get real.


Stop comparing the real world with Command and Conquer:


----------



## khansaheeb

KendoKhan said:


> Russia won’t use strategic weapons.


Get real man, stop living in television fantasy.

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## Wolfhunter

khansaheeb said:


> Get real man, stop living in television fantasy.


Hardly, you seem to not grasp the basics of warfare, stick to videogames please.


----------



## ZeGerman

kingQamaR said:


> Already land the size of UK is under Russian rule in the Donbass, 100 town and cities all under Russian control, water switched back on to the Crimea, the entire AZ.OV battalion currently incarcerated in Russia, a land Corridor to Crimea, the entire AZ.OV coastline Russian, if that is losing what is winning?


Well their initial aim was regimechange and incorporating ukraine either whole or in a north/south korea style. 

Now its 100 days to conquer an extra 10% of ukraine in donbass. 

Assuming ukraine settles for peace….that would amount to a pyrrhic victory for russia at best

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## khansaheeb

Wolfhunter said:


> Hardly, you seem to not grasp the basics of warfare, stick to videogames please.


Are you saying World war 2 was not the basics of warfare?


----------



## Wolfhunter

khansaheeb said:


> Are you saying World war 2 was not the basics of warfare?


Are you comparing statecraft and warfare in 2022 to tactics from 1939? Seriously? Now I know you are a child.


----------



## khansaheeb

Wolfhunter said:


> Are you comparing statecraft and warfare in 2022 to tactics from 1939? Seriously? Now I know you are a child.


Brutality of war hasn't changed since then. All options are on the table.

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## Wolfhunter

khansaheeb said:


> Brutality of war hasn't changed since then. All options are on the table.


Except the Nuclear option! If you still think that is a reality, you are unhinged or a child.


----------



## Apollon

khansaheeb said:


> Brutality of war hasn't changed since then. All options are on the table.



For the west too.

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## jhungary

khansaheeb said:


> They have very small tactical nukes. They have neutron bombs too. They haven't used them but they have the option too. FOr those who are boasting how powerful Ukraine is , get real.


Again. I don't know if you know how much contamination for any level of tactical nuclear device.

First of all, it NEVER the size of the device that's matter, it's the half life of what that content is that matter, Fall out is the by-product of Radiation which come from the nuclear fission, and that fission material is halved when it reaches half life. The half life of Enriched Uranium and Enriched Plutonium is as follow

Uranium 238 - 4.5 billions years
Plutonium 239 - 24,000 years.

So for every gram of Uranium 238, it become 0.5 gram in 4.5 billions years and for every gram of Plutonium 239, it become 0.5 gram in 24,000 years, then 0.25 in 48,000 years.

Now, you are talking about a 500kg warhead tactical nuke, take Iskander as an example, the lowest yield nuclear warhead is a 480kg warhead, 2 of them would make 960kg, that's 960,000 gram of radioactive material (Not just the Plutonium or Uranium inside, and not including the missile itself which is going to be irradiated when detonated) if it was Plutonium 239, it mean there are going to be 960,000 gram of radioactive dust hovering around Kyiv waiting on wind to blow it every which way, and that 960,000 gram of radioactive dust is going to be there for 24,000 years, and then it become 480,000 gram of radioactive dust. Now tell me, how "probable" if portion of those 960,000 gram of radioactive dust to travel 469 miles from Kyiv to Moscow in 24,000 years??

And neutron bomb is the same concept. You are talking about a little less Plutonium or Uranium.....

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## kingQamaR

Wolfhunter said:


> Are you comparing statecraft and warfare in 2022 to tactics from 1939? Seriously? Now I know you are a child.



Russia always losing a significant number of soldiers in any war it fights. That's how it wins. It just keeps throwing bodies at a problem until the problem goes away. Look through Russia's war history. Russia/Soviets lost 15% of their entire population, including civilians, in WW2, I don't think them losing 30,000 soldiers in 2022 is going to matter... 

Nothing to be proud of is it, that sort of history


----------



## Wolfhunter

kingQamaR said:


> Russia always losing a significant number of soldiers in any war it fights. That's how it wins. It just keeps throwing bodies at a problem until the problem goes away. Look through Russia's war history. Russia/Soviets lost 15% of their entire population, including civilians, in WW2, I don't think them losing 30,000 soldiers in 2022 is going to matter...
> 
> Nothing to be proud of is it, that sort of history


Those tactics may have worked in WWII when you had trench warfare and mass produced T-34's, vs heavier German Tigers and artillery which was bogged down in the snow and supply lines were interrupted. If anything this should have been a forewarning from Russia but it made the same mistakes in Ukraine during the start of the conflict. 

Russia has now expended a significant number of assets in this conflict, this is going to be a bitter defeat for Russia.


----------



## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> That is a good question. What is winning?
> 
> For Russia, a win is for Ukraine to change its direction or completely under Russian subjugation, otherwise what is the point losing that many men and resource and literally bankrupt the country just to get some land from Donbas (most of which they had already control since 2014 to begin with) Even if Ukraine is landlocked (Which is almost impossible now), it still process a lot of Military Power and if the Ukraine before that is a threat before, then what would you call the Ukraine that left behind with a lot of US and Western weapon?
> 
> On the other hand, you can say capturing Donbas would mean all those oil and gas goes to Russia, but then you will need to be able to sell it, EU isn't going to buy any more if they don't stop buying them altogether. And Russia can sell them cheap to India or China or Africa to earn some bucks, but with sanction and their economy down the drain, even if you can earn money by selling Oil and Gas, you can't exchange it anyway. Which mean this is going to be a moot point for Russia to just capture Donbas.
> 
> With the resource they had spend and lost, and the economy done for, Russia goal should be looking at at least a complete occupation of Ukraine, any less for them is in no way a win, not with all the price that they paid, or going to pay.



Just like to reply back to u thanks 

No mention of Ukrainian losses. No mention of the damage done to Western Europe by Russian oil, gas, grain and fertilizer sanctions. No mention of power blackouts European NATO countries will suffer this Winter should Russia extend oil and gas sanctions. No mention of German industry grinding to a halt should Russia turn off the gas. No more Mercedes and BMW. But apart from that an excellent analysis. Except it probably isn't true only Russia to suffer in this crisis alone ? We all will be hit by it one way or another


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532771249897754624
The Ukrainians laid a trap for the Russians at Severodonetsk

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## Wolfhunter

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532771249897754624
> The Ukrainians laid a trap for the Russians at Severodonetsk


Meatgrinder.


----------



## Viet

Ali_Baba said:


> The fact that Germany will take its own defence and that of neighbouring countries is a welcome sign - it is sad/dissappointing that is took the invasion and occupation of a European Democracy for Germany to realise that when everyone has been screaming at Germany for decades to take defence seriously.......


The Germans have something called “Ladehemmung” or “Schuldsgefühle“ what other in Europe don’t have. Understandable they lost two WWs. Not too bad. I think they share the fate with the Japanese. But hey thanks to russian aggression we now see a remilitarized Germany. East european countries that were brutal invaded and killed by Germany now ask for protection by Germany. Really comical, but hey so history.


----------



## ZeGerman

kingQamaR said:


> Russia always losing a significant number of soldiers in any war it fights. That's how it wins. It just keeps throwing bodies at a problem until the problem goes away. Look through Russia's war history. Russia/Soviets lost 15% of their entire population, including civilians, in WW2, I don't think them losing 30,000 soldiers in 2022 is going to matter...
> 
> Nothing to be proud of is it, that sort of history


So nothing changed since ww2? 

Tell me then, why hasnt putin called for a general conscription of the population to bum rush ukraine?

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## kingQamaR

Wolfhunter said:


> Those tactics may have worked in WWII when you had trench warfare and mass produced T-34's, vs heavier German Tigers and artillery which was bogged down in the snow and supply lines were interrupted. If anything this should have been a forewarning from Russia but it made the same mistakes in Ukraine during the start of the conflict.
> 
> Russia has now expended a significant number of assets in this conflict, this is going to be a bitter defeat for Russia.




An army about to collapse does not take territory. Russia are progressing into Ukraine in their usual, slow, grinding manner. Sadly, I do not think they are about to collapse or give up any time soon

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> Just like to reply back to u thanks
> 
> No mention of Ukrainian losses. No mention of the damage done to Western Europe by Russian oil, gas, grain and fertilizer sanctions. No mention of power blackouts European NATO countries will suffer this Winter should Russia extend oil and gas sanctions. No mention of German industry grinding to a halt should Russia turn off the gas. No more Mercedes and BMW. But apart from that an excellent analysis. Except it probably isn't true only Russia to suffer in this crisis alone ? We all will be hit by it one way or another


Well, think of it this way.

With Russia now bankrupt, their contract to EU is more than important than just about anything else. There are not much Russia can do, not like they have another 450 billions enterprise hidden somewhere in the Siberia. If you look at the contract being cancelled by Russia, they are small peanuts, big contract like Germany and France are untouched, no matter how "unfriendly" they are, because that's 75% of EU oil and Gas contact goes

Not saying the world will not suffer, in fact, of all those country, Ukraine would probably suffer the most, the problem is, for them, that price to pay is to keep their country, so you can sell it to everyday Ukrainian to laydown their life and pick up a weapon and die for their country, how are you going to sell to the Russian and asking them to die for Donbas? And if they did not die, they are going to eat dirt for the next 20 years or so (that's how long it take to recover from last Bankrupt)


----------



## Wolfhunter

kingQamaR said:


> An army about to collapse does not take territory. Russia are progressing into Ukraine in their usual, slow, grinding manner. Sadly, I do not think they are about to collapse or give up any time soon


I'd strongly consider you read this before making statements like this:





Institute for the Study of War


Russian forces continued to make incremental, grinding, and costly progress in eastern Ukraine on June 2. Russian troops continued operations to capture Severodonetsk and further operations to capture Lysychansk. Russian military leadership will likely




www.understandingwar.org


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532053765217468416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532081999061692416

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## Wolfhunter

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532053765217468416
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532081999061692416





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532791387468464128

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## kingQamaR

ZeGerman said:


> So nothing changed since ww2?
> 
> Tell me then, why hasnt putin called for a general conscription of the population to bum rush ukraine?





ZeGerman said:


> So nothing changed





ZeGerman said:


> So nothing changed since ww2?
> 
> Tell me then, why hasnt putin called for a general conscription of the population to bum rush ukraine?



What a load of nonsense. Putin will use conscription if necessary. No way will he let his army collapse completely.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Steppe Wolff said:


> Russia can today flatten entire Ukraine by carpet bombing the shit of it or …



You simply can’t flatten something which is already flat.
Just saying…


----------



## The SC

Wolfhunter said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/636114824808800256
> 
> Russians getting their arse handed to them;
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532750122450288640
> 
> *Damn right, **** Putin with a 12 foot dildo...*


You don't need to quote the tweets.. just post yours like everyone else..


----------



## Wolfhunter

The SC said:


> You don't need to quote the tweets.. just post yours like everyone else..


I'm just countering your propaganda with my propaganda.

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## The SC

Wolfhunter said:


> I'm just countering your propaganda with my propaganda.


If it is propaganda..it's twitter's.. don't take it personally..

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## Wolfhunter

The SC said:


> If it is propaganda..it's twitter's.. don't take it personally..


I don't, personally I like your posts because you just post source not your own opinion.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

ZeGerman said:


> Cauldron is if the defender is cut off from logistical support or friendly troops. Encircled.
> 
> mariupol is an exemple. Happened already at start invasion though.
> 
> Liman? No, forces retreated
> Severodonetsk, no, forces retreated to lisischansk.
> 
> For 2 months we have been hearing daily claims that the ukranian donbass troops are going to be encircled and destroyed…..this never happened. Which is logical seeing the russian advances are very very slow




Have you seen how many Ukrainian troops have surrendered? Over 8000 so far. In Liman, Severodonetsk, and other places, Ukrainian troops are running on civilian cars.











Wolfhunter said:


> I'm just countering your propaganda with my propaganda.



But yours is a lame one. Who talks about dildo in a public forum? You don't degrade the forum by discussing stuff like that.

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## Wolfhunter

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> But yours is a lame one. Who talks about dildo in a public forum? You don't degrade the forum by discussing stuff like that.


I see you missed out all the other videos I shared right and went straight for the dildo... What a dirty mind you have.

Here is another one for you:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532791387468464128


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## RoadAmerica

DF41 said:


> Brown banana, thinking that he squeaky white inside and that he as white as any other white
> 
> 
> 
> Off you go to where sun and moon never shine on and cockroaches and other low life there your bosom companions.


Capitan racist is baaack.
Don’t you have any other words than go where the cockroaches blah blah blah or is that the extent of your intellect 🤷🏿‍♂️



khansaheeb said:


> Ukraine has lost the war boast as much as you want. 20 Million refugees, infrastructure destroyed, economy in ruins, their women and children being abused in foreign countries, nothing to to be proud of sad as it is.


Lost the war, huh? 
They’ve lost 20% of their land at best but control the rest and have a functioning government.
How exactly is that loosing?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

ZeGerman said:


> So lets talk geopolitics.
> 
> Situation januari:
> Europe and russia starting closer ties. Germany close to open nordstream 2 (despite american pressure)
> 
> European defense spending/readiness all time low.
> 
> Usa/EU relations weakened (thanks to trump and continuing differing interests)
> 
> Capacity gas supplied to europe 10 times that compared to gas to china
> 
> Ukraine in frozen conflict. Seeking closer ties eu and nato, but still remaining far away in this process.
> 
> 
> Now russia COULD have sought diplomacy and trade to resolve matters with ukraine, then gain immense wealth through trade and european integration.
> 
> HOWEVER, they preferred their “stick and..stick” apporach..what the soviets always had done and why so many former warsaw pact came running and screaming to nato for protection.
> 
> Sure…if they could have pulled off a full takeover in a week…things would return somewhat to normal. By the time the EU would have finished their first debate things would be over already.
> (though still high risk of long insurgancy and long troubled relations/sanctions).
> 
> However now russia is:
> 100 days in a war of attrition with no exit in sight. High russian losses of men and military equipment…constant inflow of arms and support for ukraine.
> 
> Under heavy long term sanctions…from their main customers….now thanks to the post corona trade issues this disruption is good for resource prices…in a few years they will lose most of their market. And china will then be able to set the price…
> 
> Nation building moment in ukraine…against russian influence. Full in western camp now.
> 
> Usa gained the opportunity to get europa back in its grasp
> 
> As a result of russian aggression, nato is set to expand with multiple countries.
> 
> Nato vs russian military spending was already heavily lopsided….now europe is doubling defence spending…dwarfing the russian spending even more.
> 
> European/russian ties heavily damaged for many years.
> 
> A complete disaster really….the pain is buffered by the high resource prices (eu did unfortunately not stock up on gas…the idiots…) but this will be temporary. Russia will get hit militarily, economically, and in prestige that will set them back decades.
> 
> Winners? USA, China.
> Losers? Russia, Ukraine, EU, third world nations (food prices)




Russia is paying a heavy price because, unlike EU, the Russian leadership and Russian people don't want to be dictated to by Victoria Nuland and other Neocons. If they were compliant to the dictates of Nuland and her ilks, just like the EU is, Russians would've been left alone, of course with the price of their natural resources looted. 

So in essence, Russians are paying a price to be a free country, and frankly their freedom is worthy of whatever pain that the empire is inflicting on them.

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## K_Bin_W

Steppe Wolff said:


> Russia can today flatten entire Ukraine by carpet bombing the shit of it or just simply nuking it. Ukraine and West can’t do shit about it.
> 
> They have been playing gently uptill now and Ukrainians and their handlers should hope they continue to do that.


They certainly have the firepower to do it but they will not because there is a large minority that supports Russia.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Well, think of it this way.
> 
> With Russia now bankrupt, their contract to EU is more than important than just about anything else. There are not much Russia can do, not like they have another 450 billions enterprise hidden somewhere in the Siberia. If you look at the contract being cancelled by Russia, they are small peanuts, big contract like Germany and France are untouched, no matter how "unfriendly" they are, because that's 75% of EU oil and Gas contact goes
> 
> Not saying the world will not suffer, in fact, of all those country, Ukraine would probably suffer the most, the problem is, for them, that price to pay is to keep their country, so you can sell it to everyday Ukrainian to laydown their life and pick up a weapon and die for their country, how are you going to sell to the Russian and asking them to die for Donbas? And if they did not die, they are going to eat dirt for the next 20 years or so (that's how long it take to recover from last Bankrupt)


Putin is like a rat caught in a trap. There is no escape. There is a story. Putin was bitten by a rat when he was young.
He hunted a rat thru the floors. When the rat was cornered it sprung him into the face. One lesson he learned from the encounter: never push anyone or animal into a corner.

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## RoadAmerica

Steppe Wolff said:


> Russia can today flatten entire Ukraine by carpet bombing the shit of it or just simply nuking it. Ukraine and West can’t do shit about it.
> 
> They have been playing gently uptill now and Ukrainians and their handlers should hope they continue to do that.


🤣 
Oh yeh because they’ve been playing nice. Do you seriously believe this crap 🙄

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## Wolfhunter

RoadAmerica said:


> 🤣
> Oh yeh because they’ve been playing nice. Do you seriously believe this crap 🙄


This is what happens when you smoke cheap shit.

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## RoadAmerica

Steppe Wolff said:


> Too early to say Odessa is saved. After Donbass, Odessa will be the new front. And Ukraine will be finished if they lost their sea access.
> 
> And Russia is not exactly dirt poor as you say. Don’t exaggerate please.
> 
> 
> Looks like they have not learned the lesson after what happened to the last foreign legion which got hammered brutally.


Please explain how Ukraine is finished if they become landlocked? You mean finished like the the majority of Europe which is land locked, ever heard of roads and rail 🤷🏿‍♂️

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Wolfhunter said:


> I see you missed out all the other videos I shared right and went straight for the dildo... What a dirty mind you have.
> 
> Here is another one for you:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532791387468464128




Propaganda and a manufuctured story to keep the Western sheeple inline. There were countless Ukrainians whose cries and pain were posted online. Show me any major media/propaganda outlet that aired and showed it to the Western audience. You wont see it because the true cost of the war in Ukraine is hidden from the Western societies. That is how you know they manufacture stories in Russia when they hide the true stories on the Ukrainian side.

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## Vergennes

RoadAmerica said:


> 🤣
> Oh yeh because they’ve been playing nice. Do you seriously believe this crap 🙄



"Russia can destroy Ukraine in 30 seconds if it wanted to but wants to save Ukrainians from neonazis"
"Russia's only sending conscripts and second tier equipment"
"The real Russian army is waiting in Russia for NATO".

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## RoadAmerica

kingQamaR said:


> The amount of territory taken is less important than than its location. If Odessa is conquered, & the industrial region captured, the Russians will have severed Ukraines access to the sea, appropriated the offshore gas & vast mineral resources, including valuable lithium, & reduced Ukraine to Russias captive breadbasket, as it was in the days of the USSR


What exactly is Russia going to do with a completely destroyed east and coast of Ukraine. They couldn’t even rebuild east Germany they better like rubble.

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## Wolfhunter

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Propaganda and a manufuctured story to keep the Western sheeple inline. There were countless Ukrainians whose cries and pain were posted online. Show me any major media/propaganda outlet that aired and showed it to the Western audience. You wont see it because the true cost of the war in Ukraine is hidden from the Western societies. That is how you know they manufacture stories in Russia when they hide the true stories on the Ukrainian side.


----------



## kingQamaR

Always interesting to see how propaganda is being used, I think majority of the public have clocked on how brainwashing and fake news works


----------



## RoadAmerica

kingQamaR said:


> Already land the size of UK is under Russian rule in the Donbass, 100 town and cities all under Russian control, water switched back on to the Crimea, the entire AZ.OV battalion currently incarcerated in Russia, a land Corridor to Crimea, the entire AZ.OV coastline Russian, if that is losing what is winning?


Shall we count the Russian losses?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Wolfhunter said:


> I'd strongly consider you read this before making statements like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Institute for the Study of War
> 
> 
> Russian forces continued to make incremental, grinding, and costly progress in eastern Ukraine on June 2. Russian troops continued operations to capture Severodonetsk and further operations to capture Lysychansk. Russian military leadership will likely
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.understandingwar.org




No sane human should read the propaganda gibberish that is constantly passed as analysis by Neocons at the ISW. It is the same group of people who engineered the wars against Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria and then installed Zelensky in Ukraine in order to wage this war against Russia. I am not sure why people have a short memory. Nobody should listen to this evil. 👇

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Russia is paying a heavy price because, unlike EU, the Russian leadership and Russian people don't want to be dictated to by Victoria Nuland and other Neocons. If they were compliant to the dictates of Nuland and her ilks, just like the EU is, Russians would've been left alone, of course with the price of their natural resources looted.
> 
> So in essence, Russians are paying a price to be a free country, and frankly their freedom is worthy of whatever pain that the empire is inflicting on them.


Utter dribble. 

Russia was free of neocons. (Not free from putin and oligarchs stealing billions btw) And could trade. However chose to invade a sovereign nation which russia vowed would respect its security. 🤪

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## Wolfhunter

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> No sane human should read the propaganda gibberish that is constantly passed as analysis by Neocons at the ISW. It is the same groups of people who engineered the wars against Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria and then installed Zelensky in Ukraine in order to wage this war against Russia. I am not sure why people have a short memory. Nobody should listen to this evil. 👇
> 
> View attachment 850807


And I suppose your Russian sponsored sources are angels right?


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> Putin is like a rat caught in a trap. There is no escape. There is a story. Putin was bitten by a rat when he was young.
> He hunted a rat thru the floors. When the rat was cornered it sprung him into the face. One lesson he learned from the encounter: never push anyone or animal into a corner.


Maybe he really is dying, so he couldn't care less. 

I can't think of anyone that think logically would think a full blown invasion is an answer to their problem.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532781012228395009

Russians getting pushed back

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## RoadAmerica

khansaheeb said:


> They have very small tactical nukes. They have neutron bombs too. They haven't used them but they have the option too. FOr those who are boasting how powerful Ukraine is , get real.


I mean they were the primary manufacturing base for the Soviet Union but let’s gloss over that. Steam turbines, jet engines, large surface ships all produced in Ukraine.

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## Wood

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532755140255547392


hahah.. this was epic.


----------



## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Have you seen how many Ukrainian troops have surrendered? Over 8000 so far. In Liman, Severodonetsk, and other places, Ukrainian troops are running on civilian cars.
> 
> 
> View attachment 850790
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yours is a lame one. Who talks about dildo in a public forum? You don't degrade the forum by discussing stuff like that.


So other then mariopol no cauldron. Good we agree.

And running so much the russians advance 0,5km a day? Less?


----------



## RoadAmerica

kingQamaR said:


> Just like to reply back to u thanks
> 
> No mention of Ukrainian losses. No mention of the damage done to Western Europe by Russian oil, gas, grain and fertilizer sanctions. No mention of power blackouts European NATO countries will suffer this Winter should Russia extend oil and gas sanctions. No mention of German industry grinding to a halt should Russia turn off the gas. No more Mercedes and BMW. But apart from that an excellent analysis. Except it probably isn't true only Russia to suffer in this crisis alone ? We all will be hit by it one way or another


Huh, they won’t go cold plenty of countries will sell LNG.
Benz and BMW are built in other counties too ya know. Actually their newest factories are in the US
US can produce more fertilizer as can many other countries. 
I mean we can continue to do this if you’d like, what’s the next topic?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

ZeGerman said:


> Utter dribble.
> 
> Russia was free of neocons. (Not free from putin and oligarchs stealing billions btw) And could trade. However chose to invade a sovereign nation which russia vowed would respect its security. 🤪



US government has a policy that the nations in the Western hemisphere can't have a foreign policy that can threaten America's designs in this hemisphere. A clear example we can cite is the Cuban missile crisis where US was threatening to trigger a nuclear conflict if those nuclear weapons weren't removed from Cuba. Keep in mind Cuba is a sovereign country.

Russia has similar policy where it doesn't want NATO at its borders, meaning nations that border them shouldn't threaten the security of Russia. So when Zelensky puppet decided to be Victoria Nuland's poodle and called for NATO membership, and when Biden refused to rule out Ukraine's membership in NATO, and when the NAZIS in Ukraine declared a genocidal war on Russian-speaking communities in the Donbas region, Russia was given no choice but to act. Bottom line what is good for the goose is good for the gander!



ZeGerman said:


> So other then mariopol no cauldron. Good we agree.
> 
> And running so much the russians advance 0,5km a day? Less?



The whole reason why you saw those Ukrainian forces in civilian cars is because they were escaping the cauldron that was about to be placed on them.

Luhansk People's Republic is almost liberated and the rest of Donbass is about to fall. They'll then go for the South of Ukraine. Unlike the West, Russia doesn't have a deadline to meet. They would gradually take town after town while crippling Western supplies to Ukraine. They already control 20% of Ukraine and brought the rest of Ukraine to its knees.

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## Paul2

Ali_Baba said:


> Extending beyond Kherson may be a problem if the Russians blow up all the bridges across the Dnjpro River



On other hand, Ukraine can blow up the bridge, and have a panicking Russian force easily routed

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> Always interesting to see how propaganda is being used, I think majority of the public have clocked on how brainwashing and fake news works


The one thing I have most problem with is that people justify this war by "The West Push Russia to invade", well, that still make you a willing participant isn't it? Then what's the point??

I mean, it's like I said "Hey, see that house? Nobody has been collecting paper for over a month, maybe you should break in and burglarize it" Then you did it and get caught by the police, would you be able to talk it out by saying "I was pushed to burglarize that place"?


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532805028733394948

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## Primus

@LeGenD 

Thread needs a cleanup again


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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> US government has a policy that the nations in the Western hemisphere can't have a foreign policy that can threaten America's designs in this hemisphere. A clear example we can cite is the Cuban missile crisis where US was threatening to trigger a nuclear conflict if those nuclear weapons weren't removed from Cuba. Keep in mind Cuba is a sovereign country.
> 
> Russia has similar policy where it doesn't want NATO at its borders, meaning nations that border them shouldn't threaten the security of Russia. So when Zelensky puppet decided to be Victoria Nuland's poodle and called for NATO membership, and when Biden refused to rule out Ukraine's membership in NATO, and when the NAZIS in Ukraine declared a genocidal war on Russian-speaking communities in the Donbas region, Russia was given no choice but to act. Bottom line what is good for the goose is good for the gander!
> 
> 
> 
> The whole reason why you saw those Ukrainian forces in civilian cars is because they were escaping the cauldron that was about to be placed on them.
> 
> Luhansk People's Republic is almost liberated and the rest of Donbass is about to fall. They'll then go for the South of Ukraine. Unlike the West, Russia doesn't have a deadline to meet. They would gradually take town after town while crippling Western supplies to Ukraine. They already control 20% of Ukraine when they brought the rest of Ukraine to its knees.


Nations bordering russia hardly threathen its security. Especially in the form of a defensive alliance (with multiple nato countries already bordering russia). Instead its russia threathening those poor countries existance….

As a somali i dont expect you to read much on (eastern) european history. But please do as it will help you understand current events better.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532781012228395009
> 
> Russians getting pushed back




No push back. It is just Azov holding people as hostages in buildings and shooting at the Russian liberators. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532804659814903808


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## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> Maybe he really is dying, so he couldn't care less.
> 
> I can't think of anyone that think logically would think a full blown invasion is an answer to their problem.


If US/Nato push him in a corner, very likely he will nuke Kiev or some part of Europe.

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## Paul2

Viet said:


> Good analysis
> About why Germany gas reserves run low. Very easy to understand. Unbelievable, but Germany biggest gas storage tanks belong to Gazprom aka Putin. He planned this war long hand. He emptied the tanks to close 0. Yes zero. Then he started the war. The Germans were naive. Germany even approved northstream 2 in opposition to the US. They are caught by surprise. The gas prices escalated. Putin smiled.
> Putin plays a game of a gangster.



I don't think they were naive, I think it was clear for the start that Austria, and Germany were the most red infiltrated countries in the EU — both being a core of EU.

Macron's second tour meant that second leg of EU was also lame. He was completely mentally dominated by reds. Pussolini handled him as a pet poodle.

And the UK was out of EU as such.

Russians attacked because they thought they will never get such a rare chance again.

The US should look after their Washington politburo (Feinstein, Bushes, Libelman, Kissy) too. The amount of obvious infiltration is mind boggling, there are literally naturalised US citizens who are CPC members working as congress staffers.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

ZeGerman said:


> Nations bordering russia hardly threathen its security. Especially in the form of a defensive alliance (with multiple nato countries already bordering russia). Instead its russia threathening those poor countries existance….
> 
> As a somali i dont expect you to read much on (eastern) european history. But please do as it will help you understand current events better.




Even since the Neocons engineered the countless invasions and color revolutions, I was following the news in Eastern Europe and the rest of the world and am up-to-date on how these forces who control the empire were pushing the Russians to act. 

The problem with many European commentators is you either willingly ignore or are uninformed on how the shakers and movers of the empire were squeezing Russia to the point we have this disastrous war. These same forces ruin one country to the next.

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## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> The one thing I have most problem with is that people justify this war by "The West Push Russia to invade", well, that still make you a willing participant isn't it? Then what's the point??
> 
> I mean, it's like I said "Hey, see that house? Nobody has been collecting paper for over a month, maybe you should break in and burglarize it" Then you did it and get caught by the police, would you be able to talk it out by saying "I was pushed to burglarize that place"?


Its more like : We see "you/west" do it all the time, so "we/russia" did it too. And now you are all up in arms and invoking democracy, freedom, sovereignty and what not. I mean where were all these when "west/US" invaded Afghanistan? Vietnam? Or helped UAE invade Yemen? Or carried out drone strikes on civilians in tribal areas of Pakistan?

What is that egregiously evil thing that Russia has done which CIA / UK/ US has not been doing since ... forever?

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## jhungary

HydraChess said:


> If US/Nato push him in a corner, very likely he will nuke Kiev or some part of Europe.


Again, nuking Kyiv is like nuking Moscow, with 469 miles distant between the 2 cities, any radioactive material form that nuke will almost certainly blow back to Russia. Unless Russia can somehow control how wind blow or how radioactive material work. There are virtually no chance on nuking Kyiv or anywhere in Ukraine. 

Nuking other part in Europe most likely ended up nuking NATO, that's game over for the world.


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## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> Again, nuking Kyiv is like nuking Moscow, with 469 miles distant between the 2 cities, any radioactive material form that nuke will almost certainly blow back to Russia. Unless Russia can somehow control how wind blow or how radioactive material work. There are virtually no chance on nuking Kyiv or anywhere in Ukraine.


Or use sub kilotonne nukes. Russia is full spectrum nuclear power.



jhungary said:


> Nuking other part in Europe most likely ended up nuking NATO, that's game over for the world.


No. Sweden and Finland are open game.

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## jhungary

HydraChess said:


> Its more like : We see "you/west" do it all the time, so "we/russia" did it too. And now you are all up in arms and invoking democracy, freedom, sovereignty and what not. I mean where were all these when "west/US" invaded Afghanistan? Vietnam? Or helped UAE invade Yemen? Or carried out drone strikes on civilians in tribal areas of Pakistan?
> 
> What is that egregiously evil thing that Russia has done which CIA / UK/ US has not been doing since ... forever?


That's the same argument, it didn't shred your responsibility. You are still an active participant in this. 

I mean, just because someone rob a store, does that give you the right to rob the same store? Not to mention Russia themselves have more adventure than the US since 1950s. You say that like Russia don't like to invade other countries.


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## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> That's the same argument, it didn't shred your responsibility. You are still an active participant in this.


Let me put it in this way. Why the bar on morality or whatever on Russia needs to be higher than US / UK/ NATO/ CIA?



jhungary said:


> I mean, just because someone rob a store, does that give you the right to rob the same store? Not to mention Russia themselves have more adventure than the US since 1950s. You say that like Russia don't like to invade other countries.


Yes indeed! If everyone is robbing, why should a certain party needs to hold themselves to a higher standard of morality? And why there is an additional hue and cry for that party's action or misdeeds?

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## jhungary

HydraChess said:


> Or use sub kilotonne nukes. Russia is full spectrum nuclear power.


Again, it's not about how many "Kiloton" it's about radioactive material, you are talking about in grams, not kilograms or tons, and those material are only halved in 24,000 years. Again, go back and read the impact on Chernobyl, Chernobyl is 150km north of Kyiv. And that not even a nuclear explosion



HydraChess said:


> No. Sweden and Finland are open game.


lol, if you think that. By the way, Both country have defence pact with UK. Just in case you do not know.


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## Paul2

Apollon said:


> Russia is dirtpoor and cant rebuild.



Yet they still can supply cannon fodder at a rate of 2 battalions per week, and have enough towed guns, and mortars in storage to fight WW2 few times over.

There are few ways to make them rout:

Exert shocking losses on the rate of first weeks of war, enough to cut them from 7 field armies to less than 6 or 5
Deep strikes to make them crumble under their own weight
Push Belgorod, or Crimea to make them lose their cool
Deep wedging to cut the continuity of their frontline in 2+ places
Seize air dominance
I only see the brute force being possible to do with current rate of Western weapon supplies. Russians squander their manpower, and hardware now, and will do more so when more weapons will arrive.

2nd is also possible, but still no long range precision fires arrived.

Push to Belgorod - not enough of own forces, and Joe's nagging

Deep wedging - not enough armour

Air - no jets


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## jhungary

HydraChess said:


> Let me put it in this way. Why the bar on morality or whatever on Russia needs to be higher than US / UK/ NATO/ CIA?



You do realise once you do what CIA/NATO/UK/US do, all your "morality" or whatever goes out the window right?

That is IF you had not done it before, as I said, Russia invaded more country than US/UK/NATO did. I mean if you pretend Russia is a peaceful little country, then all I can say is LOL YOU ARE DELUSIONAL....



HydraChess said:


> Yes indeed! If everyone is robbing, why should a certain party needs to hold themselves to a higher standard of morality? And why there is an additional hue and cry for that party's action or misdeeds?


Sure, but then you don't cry when the shopkeeper shoot back. Bear in mind, Russia is NOT fighting NATO troop in Ukraine, they are fighting Ukrainian troop in Ukraine. I mean, if everybody rob, that does not mean the people you are robbing cannot fight back, and certainly does not mean people next door or somewhere far cannot sell weapon to the storeowner to fight you.

It's not the about moral high ground or anything like that. You rob a store, you get shot, you don't cry foul.


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## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> Again, it's not about how many "Kiloton" it's about radioactive material, you are talking about in grams, not kilograms or tons, and those material are only halved in 24,000 years. Again, go back and read the impact on Chernobyl, Chernobyl is 150km north of Kyiv. And that not even a nuclear explosion


Errr... Well, its a misconception that any amount of radioactivity leads to excess deaths and cancers.

There are many places on earth with hell lot of radioactivity occuring naturally. I lived in hilly parts of Vancouver for sometime and there is radon in soil there and if you go out with a gieger counter you see high radioactivity in many places including schools. Secondly, Hiroshima and Nagasaki are pretty decent places now after 20 kilotonnes of explosion in which most of radioactive material was blow around. Modern warheads use boosting which ensure most of the fuel in burnt up. Cancer rates in Japan are not exactly sky high as compared to rest of the world.

A < 1 KT bomb will never release any amount of radioactivity more than say tests like Tsar-Bomba. Even though it was supposedly a very clean bomb.

Lastly, there are options of enhanced radiation bombs, which kill using gamma and x-ray radiation and contain very little radioactivite materials.



jhungary said:


> lol, if you think that. By the way, Both country have defence pact with UK. Just in case you do not know.


Will UK go for a nuclear war with Russia over inconsequential countries like Finland and Sweden? I doubt it. The extent of defence pacts is not enough and is neither comprehensive enough like NATO. Besides, if UK attacks Russia first (because of its obligations of its own treaty), NATO is not obliged to involve itself. That is the exception in NATO charter. We have seen already, US/UK/NATO are not in a mood to fight directly with Russia in any capacity.

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## kingQamaR

RoadAmerica said:


> Huh, they won’t go cold plenty of countries will sell LNG.
> Benz and BMW are built in other counties too ya know. Actually their newest factories are in the US
> US can produce more fertilizer as can many other countries.
> I mean we can continue to do this if you’d like, what’s the next topic?



It is far worse than is being reported here. The EU states that over 41% of its gas comes from Russia, the second supplier Norway already at maximum capacity is 16%, for crude oil it's even higher from Russia. If Russia stops supplying Europe some predictions are for the wholesale price of gas to quadruple. The shortfall cannot be made up and people will not be able to heat their homes this Winter. Pricing people out of the market will reduce demand, but it's the poor who will suffer, and not the political elites. America has its own gas oil fields so it’s a bit rich lecturing us here in EU to swallow it and not complain about higher costs


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## jhungary

HydraChess said:


> Errr... Well, its a misconception that any amount of radioactivity leads to excess deaths and cancers.
> 
> There are many places on earth with hell lot of radioactivity occuring naturally. I lived in hilly parts of Vancouver for sometime and there is radon in soil there and if you go out with a gieger counter you see high radioactivity in many places including schools. Secondly, Hiroshima and Nagasaki are pretty decent places now after 20 kilotonnes of explosion in which most of radioactive material was blow around. Modern warheads use boosting which ensure most of the fuel in burnt up. Cancer rates in Japan are not exactly sky high as compared to rest of the world.



Hiroshima and Nagasaki are ground burst, and the technology of delivery is not the same level as today, you cannot compare the 2 bomb in 1945 to what would have been done today, I can say even the severity is underestimated if we are using 1986 Chernobyl disaster

I mean, sure, if you think nuking Kyiv is not big deal to Russia or Belarus, go ahead, please do. But I was in the Army, and I went thru CBRN training, and my training tell me otherwise. I wouldn't do it if I was on the button, but well, you have your own opinion, just be glad when that did happen, you don't live in Moscow.



HydraChess said:


> Will UK go for a nuclear war with Russia over inconsequential countries like Finland and Sweden? I doubt it. The extent of defence pacts is not enough and is neither comprehensive enough like NATO. Besides, if UK attacks Russia first (because of its obligations of its own treaty), NATO is not obliged to involve itself. That is the exception in NATO charter. We have seen already, US/UK/NATO are not in a mood to fight directly with Russia in any capacity.



The same question would applies to Russia as well, would Russia want to risk a nuclear war with UK or NATO over Sweden and Finland? How do you know NATO will not response?

And lol, you obviously confused between "don't want to fight" Russian directly and "don't need to fight" Russian directly. After you seeing how Russia only been able to take 9% of Ukraine in 100 days, do you really do think Russia would have any chance facing off NATO? Before you say NATO don't dare to do anything, they are sending advance weapon to Ukraine for the express purpose of killing Russian soldier, for all intend and purpose they are already at war, I mean, I have seen war started less than this, I wouldn't be surprise if Russia really go after NATO. NATO already risk actually going to war by acting OVER the line of neutrality. So no, what you said about NATO is not in the mood to fight Russia directly is not true at all.


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## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> You do realise once you do what CIA/NATO/UK/US do, all your "morality" or whatever goes out the window right?


Does it matter? Should it matter?



jhungary said:


> Sure, but then you don't cry when the shopkeeper shoot back. Bear in mind, Russia is NOT fighting NATO troop in Ukraine, they are fighting Ukrainian troop in Ukraine. I mean, if everybody rob, that does not mean the people you are robbing cannot fight back, and certainly does not mean people next door or somewhere far cannot sell weapon to the storeowner to fight you.
> 
> It's not the about moral high ground or anything like that. You rob a store, you get shot, you don't cry foul.


Then the shopkeeper should not also cry if the adversory hold his or her children on ransom. If its open for all, then yes, its open for all. Then shopkeeper should not cry if the shops are petrol bombed.

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## MeFishToo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> No push back. It is just Azov holding people as hostages in buildings and shooting at the Russian liberators.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532804659814903808


Still posting russian propaganda.. I thought chechen special-special forces conquered Severodonetsk a week ago, according to you and the chechen special-special forces supreme commander.


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## jhungary

HydraChess said:


> Does it matter? Should it matter?



It matter if you start talking about "Morality" as the clause



HydraChess said:


> Then the shopkeeper should not also cry if the adversory hold his or her children on ransom. If its open for all, then yes, its open for all. Then shopkeeper should not cry if the shops are petrol bombed.



I didn't see Ukraine bitching about the invasion, nor Ukraine is yelling about sanction or whatever. Did you?

All I hear is Ukraine asking for more money and weapon to kill the Russian invader. And Russia bitch about how Western Sanction is declaring war and bitch about the West to stop sending weapon to Ukraine.

In fact, I just spend the last 2 months in Ukraine (Well, 6 weeks), from what I am seeing, they WANTED to kill Russian.


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## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> Hiroshima and Nagasaki are ground burst, and the technology of delivery is not the same level as today, you cannot compare the 2 bomb in 1945 to what would have been done today, I can say even the severity is underestimated if we are using 1986 Chernobyl disaster
> 
> I mean, sure, if you think nuking Kyiv is not big deal to Russia or Belarus, go ahead, please do. But I was in the Army, and I went thru CBRN training, and my training tell me otherwise. I wouldn't do it if I was on the button, but well, you have your own opinion, just be glad when that did happen, you don't live in Moscow.


False, Hiroshima was not ground burst. It was air burst to maximize destruction caused by pressure wave. Its detonation height was 530 M. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki#Hiroshima).

Nagasaki was also 503 M detonation.

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## kingQamaR

But logically you have to wonder is the first to strike the winner, even though you could strike back. If you're mostly all dead, what use is it for humanity to wipe out the rest and add even more nuclear pollution. It's a hard thought but an interesting debate. I personally just tip to shoot back


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## ZeGerman

HydraChess said:


> Does it matter? Should it matter?
> 
> 
> Then the shopkeeper should not also cry if the adversory hold his or her children on ransom. If its open for all, then yes, its open for all. Then shopkeeper should not cry if the shops are petrol bombed.


Can you please stop dumping all western countries under “UK/US/NATO”? 

Many countries such as germany, poland, chech, lithuania are pacifist since decades and are completely up in arms against this invasion on a sovereign european democracy. 

Russia, who committed absolute atrocities against ukraine and poland in the past. A colonialist agressive empire. 

And here we have people defending russia while lumping us in with the f*cking americans. 

Who, still behave better in war then russia by the way. Look at population development in afghanistan during russian and american invasion for instance….


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532800584742486018

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532718543963308032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532784431915753473

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
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## jhungary

HydraChess said:


> False, Hiroshima was not ground burst. It was air burst to maximize destruction caused by pressure wave. Its detonation height was 530 M. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki#Hiroshima).
> 
> Nagasaki was also 503 M detonation.


Ground Burst is not just mean detonate on the ground..........Ground Burst mean the detonation is on Ground level, obstructed by Ground structure.

Anything detonated below 1000 meters are considered ground burst, because the earth is NOT flat, it's curve, and you need to clear most of the curvature to be able to do an air burst. Otherwise the blast will be limited by both curvature and any building that would absorb radiation.

The term Air Burst is used when the detonation CLEARED all ground obstacle so the explosion will bounce back toward the earth and create a shockwave. Not when it is 10 meters off the air.....

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## Vergennes

Conflicting reports about severodonestk but it seems the Ukrainians led a counterattack and recaptured parts of the city.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532804888140435456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532807095334187015


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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Even since the Neocons engineered the countless invasions and color revolutions, I was following the news in Eastern Europe and the rest of the world and am up-to-date on how these forces who control the empire were pushing the Russians to act.
> 
> The problem with many European commentators is you either willingly ignore or are uninformed on how the shakers and movers of the empire were squeezing Russia to the point we have this disastrous war. These same forces ruin one country to the next.


So only recent history then….a shame. 


Russia is a colonialist empire that cannot stomach losing some of its “subjects”. 

America stirs the pot, sure…thats what they do…they need an “enemy” for their military-industry. 

So Both have a certain amount of blame for this situation. 
Russia i would say carries the most however. Starting an agressive war against yet another of their poor warsaw pact members. Despite their vow. And already with a history of the holodomor…


----------



## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> But logically you have to wonder is the first to strike the winner, even though you could strike back. If you're mostly all dead, what use is it for humanity to wipe out the rest and add even more nuclear pollution. It's a hard thought but an interesting debate. I personally just tip to shoot back


Would tell you this tho

I would rather die in the blast than live to try to "survive" the aftermath. I tried war once and that take a lot to survive when people are just shooting at you. OTOH, if you survive a nuclear blast, then everything on this earth is going to kill you, I don't know if I have the will to do that.

Which make does it matter who strike first a moot point....I am already dead, I don't care lol


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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Would tell you this tho
> 
> I would rather die in the blast than live to try to "survive" the aftermath. I tried war once and that take a lot to survive when people are just shooting at you. OTOH, if you survive a nuclear blast, then everything on this earth is going to kill you, I don't know if I have the will to do that.
> 
> Which make does it matter who strike first a moot point....I am already dead, I don't care lol



Cities are by far the most survivable places during nuclear war.

Subways deeper 100m are practically as good as purpose made shelters. Only direct hit from 1mt+ weapon will take one down.

Even on an open terrain, a 2m trench will shield you from a flash with 50/50 odds from a 1.2mt flash at 8km, and if you have a basic concrete pillbox at 5km.

Civilian bunkers at 20mpa strength will give you perfect security at 8km under few meters of earth. Military 50mpa+ can even save you directly inside the fireball deeper underground.


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## PakFactor

jhungary said:


> Would tell you this tho
> 
> I would rather die in the blast than live to try to "survive" the aftermath. I tried war once and that take a lot to survive when people are just shooting at you. OTOH, if you survive a nuclear blast, then everything on this earth is going to kill you, I don't know if I have the will to do that.
> 
> Which make does it matter who strike first a moot point....I am already dead, I don't care lol



Don’t want to create a new civilization ground up?


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532817897692831749

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532817589336002560

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Cities are by far the most survivable places during nuclear war.
> 
> Subways deeper 100m are practically as good as purpose made shelters. Only direct hit from 1mt+ weapon will take one down.
> 
> Even on an open terrain, a 2m trench will shield you from a flash with 50/50 odds from a 1.2mt flash at 8km, and if you have a basic concrete pillbox at 5km.


It's not how you survive the blast, it's about how you survive what happening after. 

What would you do if you cannot just go to the market and get all you need? You have to scavenge necessity just to survive? How are you planning on doing that? Are you trying to be a farmer in the nuclear wasteland or trying to hunt down can food store to store and battling with your neighbour and in some cases, you need to kill them in order for you to survive??

It's no fun when you left in a place where you can't even drink the water you see in the open, because it is contaminated and you have to go hunt for bottle water, a world where no Police and Government are going to help you, and everyone is fending for themselves. 

I would not like to live in that world.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532817389712187393

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

PakFactor said:


> Don’t want to create a new civilization ground up?


No, it only make it look good on TV, not really when you have to go do it on your own.....


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532817128256053249

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532636198782517248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532635860906258455

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532636233226240001

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> It's not how you survive the blast, it's about how you survive what happening after.
> 
> What would you do if you cannot just go to the market and get all you need? You have to scavenge necessity just to survive? How are you planning on doing that? Are you trying to be a farmer in the nuclear wasteland or trying to hunt down can food store to store and battling with your neighbour and in some cases, you need to kill them in order for you to survive??
> 
> It's no fun when you left in a place where you can't even drink the water you see in the open, because it is contaminated and you have to go hunt for bottle water, a world where no Police and Government are going to help you, and everyone is fending for themselves.
> 
> I would not like to live in that world.



1 week after a ground burst, the radiation will unlikely be high enough to kill, and more or less harmless in an NBC protected vehicle.

If the rad sickness doesn't kill you within days, recovery chances are high. There are people who walked unprotected during nbc drills at ground zero hours after detonation, and had normal lives.

Groundwater will almost certainly be drinkable after the blast anywhere, but the ground zero. Puddles will be poisoned with activated sodium for 5 days, and dangerous for 10.


----------



## MeFishToo

I think the consequences of a nuclear war is a bit exaggerated. The US and Russia could probably destroy the major cities and military industrial complexes in each country, but its not the end of humanity and planet earth as such. It sure would be the end of life as we know it, but it will not lead to some nuclear winter leaving the earth uninhabitable.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532635458500497408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532634273726996480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532633266192269312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532632367952797696

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## Paul2

MeFishToo said:


> I think the consequences of a nuclear war is a bit exaggerated. The US and Russia could probably destroy the major cities and military industrial complexes in each country, but its not the end of humanity and planet earth as such. It sure would be the end of life as we know it, but it will not lead to some nuclear winter leaving the earth uninhabitable.



Indeed, and at least in the Red countries, political elites are well informed about what the result will look like.

NATO is 1 billion people, and at least 10 strong states with very robust institute of statehood which will not collapse from a loss of a capital.

Russia+China can at most kill 5% of NATO population if they will agree on a simultaneous first strike, and focus solely on casualty count.

The Communist China, and Russia, despite being the most NBC prepared nations on the planet, will cease to function once the political leadership will go down.

While an unprovoked Western strike will certainly lead to some counterstrike, and at least an attempt to rebuilding the CoC, things will go muddier the moment the ruling party decides to strike during a time of crisis.

You understand that people who are chosen to hold the real nuclear button in a missile silo are the closest things to robots. The indoctrination to follow the instruction to the letter is real, but this also means that they will not do shit if there is any contest of authority.

If strike is unprovoked, sure thing — even if years of indoctrination will fail to work, that 1 star general, or a colonel in the silo will get shot by soldiers, or junior officers who will then press the button.

But if people in the bunker will sense any wavering from the political leadership, the outcome is far less clear. Junior officers will know the risk of being shot by their own knocking on the bunker's door if they will follow party zealots to the end. Remember the 2nd missile corps general who ran away to US during Sino-Vietnam war, losing his shit on the fear that Deng will use the nuke.

If they knew they could win against the West just by pressing the nuclear button, and overwaiting the inferno in a deep bunker, while they lose 10%-15% of the country, they would've done so immediately without any hesitation.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532631237000568833

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532631023040843776

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## Elvin



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## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> I didn't see Ukraine bitching about the invasion, nor Ukraine is yelling about sanction or whatever. Did you?


Yes. A LOT! EVERY DAMN WHERE! Their President does it almost on a daily/weekly basis, amplified by US/UK/Germany based media outlets.

"Give us Air Cover"
"They are kidnapping our children! 200K taken!"
"They are bombing buildings marked as children!"
"They are killing civilians! Human rights violators! Devils!"
"They are blowing up our historical places!"
"Give us Air Cover! Now!"
"Give us weapons! Now!"
"Shame on you! You do business with Russia!"

Just some examples.

PS : I have no special affinity to Russia. Putin can and should go to hell for being a slimey little dictator. That being said, I feel sick of US/UK/German hypocrisy.



jhungary said:


> Ground Burst is not just mean detonate on the ground..........Ground Burst mean the detonation is on Ground level, obstructed by Ground structure.


In all the description of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I have never seen these bombing described as "ground burst". They have always been described as "air burst" assisted by barometer. And seriously, half a kilometer in air, is very much an air-burst.

If you have sources to contary, I am happy to look at them.

Lets, however, circle back to original point: Can Russia do a nuke attack limited to Kiev leaving mascow intact? If US could do it back in 40s. I am sure as hell, Russia can do it now. If anyone in the world can, Russia surely can.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532837022209015808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532837002504245250


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532777221248647169

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532835782397935617

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532660012199424000

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532641380589355008

Reactions: Love Love:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532656049878073346


----------



## Hakwa Nadro

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532137166196903936
> 
> 
> This is all you need to know about ISW 👇
> 
> 
> View attachment 850136


western propaganda machines working overtime

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532604260713648129

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532603058034819072

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532600113138438145

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532837244460883968

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532664081441865729

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532657967899754496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532623603950309377

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532836329565790208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532729693715169281

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

Russians announced fights in #Pryvillia (#Louhansk), which would imply a crossing of the #Donets (river) and an immediate danger for #Severodonetsk.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532830990892138496

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## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> Anything detonated below 1000 meters are considered ground burst, because the earth is NOT flat, it's curve, and you need to clear most of the curvature to be able to do an air burst. Otherwise the blast will be limited by both curvature and any building that would absorb radiation.


The curvature of earth is convex and not concave. So I doubt earth's curvature will get in way.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532836473770332162

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532807250175197186

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532796911496880128

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## MeFishToo

Insted of all these twitter propaganda stories, you should try this Youtube channel. They seem to be well informed about the situation in Ukraine.
War in Ukraine

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532823505968013314


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532807707639566336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532807758499790852

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532807095405449217

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532712722680279040

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532811649018736640

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532796190407987205

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532823505968013314




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532752043210850304
The Ukrainians sent the foreign mercenaries in what appeared to be a suicide mission, but they're taking a heavy beating. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532852228662431747

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532712278646263809

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532699778240364546

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532820122657820673

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532692321640148993

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## MeFishToo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532797914988388352
> 
> 
> What you shared is a Ukrainian rehashed propaganda. Not reliable.


That figures. Someone *not *waving the russian flag while spewing nazi stories constantly, cant possibly know anything about the war in Ukraine.
But someone posting BS on an anonymous twitter account is most certainly reliable - only condition is _Russia for the win._

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532849057999249408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532849059672772608


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532645829357490176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532621962014760960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532633185259081728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532626746998198273

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532831905271488520


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532862315233681408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532860908455743489

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532860449905074181

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532860769850753024


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532859108092674049

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532859555939491841

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532858527206854657

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532858361942769667

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532858372608909312

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532857254562635777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532855973534113794

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532830185879490561

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532828929123287044


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532733915277950978

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
1


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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 3​Jun 3, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF
*
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, June 3
Kateryna Stepanenko, Mason Clark, and George Barros
June 3, 7:30 pm ET*
*Click here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu claimed that Russian forces will “accelerate” the “special military operation” in Ukraine in a meeting with Chechen Leader Ramzan Kadyrov on June 3, though Russian forces are unlikely to be able to do so. *Kadyrov said that Shoigu has “identified new tasks” that will improve the effectiveness of Russian offensive maneuvers and improve Russian tactics.[1] Kadyrov did not specify which tasks Russian forces will undertake to speed up their pace. Shoigu previously claimed on May 24 that Russian forces were making slow progress in eastern Ukraine to avoid civilian casualties.[2] In a retrospective on the 100th day of the war, the UK Defense Ministry stated that Russian forces will likely establish control over Luhansk Oblast in the next two weeks, though only at significant further cost.[3] The UK Defense Ministry further noted that Russian forces on all other axes have gone over to defensive operations to concentrate all available forces in Severodonetsk, and stated Russia will need to commit sizable investment of manpower and equipment—that it will be unable to generate quickly, if at all—to advance beyond Luhansk Oblast.
*A Russian milblogger published a lengthy message on June 3 claiming that nearly the entire 35th Combined Arms Army has been destroyed in Izyum due to incompetent Russian commanders. *A Russian milblogger under the pseudonym Boytsovyi Kot Murz said that Russian commanders did not account for combat challenges in the Izyum woods, leading to significant losses in the 64th and 38th Separate Guard Motor Rifle Brigades, which he reported now have less than 100 servicemen in total.[4] Boytsovyi Kot Murz claimed that Russian commanders failed to provide necessary equipment to units fighting in wooded terrain and did not repair Russian heavy artillery in a timely manner. Russian forces also reportedly lacked effective communication with command centers and relied on messengers due to the shortage of encrypted phones. Boytsovyi Kot Murz noted that the lack of communications between Russian units and commanders allowed Ukrainian forces to strike Russian advanced positions with drones. Russian private military company servicemen from Wagner also refused to participate in combat, leading to a significant lack of advances on the Izyum axis. While ISW cannot independently confirm these reports, they are consistent with previous reports of Russian operations and high casualties on the Izyum axis.
*Russian and proxy forces reportedly have not sufficiently prepared frontline units with medical supplies, leading to abysmal medical care. *Boytsovyi Kot Murz criticized the Russian Defense Ministry for failing to prepare medical equipment and field hospitals for wounded servicemen.[5] Russian commanders reportedly failed to learn lessons from the lack of medical equipment during the Battle of Debaltseve in 2015 and are repeating similar mistakes. Boytsovyi Kot Murz claimed that Russian forces do not provide frontline troops with high pressure bandages and other supplies necessary to address limb injuries in time. Boytsovyi Kot Murz compared expired and underprepared Russian first aid kits to higher quality Ukrainian supplies and claimed that Russian forces do not have volunteer support that could address the shortages in military equipment. Boytsovyi Kot Murz noted that only Russian infantry, that he claimed has been defeated, had necessary medical training—while newly recruited reservists are incapable of providing first aid. Boytsovyi Kot Murz said that Russian medics are conducting an unnecessary number of limb amputations due to the lack medical equipment provided by the Russian Defense Ministry. These claims are consistent with past reports of poor Russian medical care in frontline units, and these conditions are likely a major contributing factor to Russian demoralization and the growing refusal of servicemen to return to frontline units.
*Ukrainian forces report that Russian electronic warfare (EW) units are increasingly threatening Ukrainian air reconnaissance in eastern Ukraine. *Ukrainian military officials reported that Russian forces are increasingly jamming all possible signals and hindering Ukrainian drone operations.[6] The Ukrainian General Staff has previously reported that Russian forces intensified EW operations in Donbas, likely in an effort to obstruct Ukrainian aerial reconnaissance and drone strikes on Russian units.[7]
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces conducted unsuccessful assaults southeast and southwest of Izyum and west of Lyman but remain unlikely to secure major advances towards Slovyansk.*
*Russian forces made minor gains in the eastern part of Severodonetsk, but Ukrainian forces continues to launch localized counterattacks in Severodonetsk and its outskirts.*
*Russian forces did not attempt to launch assaults on Avdiivka.*
*Russian forces failed to regain lost positions in northeastern Kherson Oblast and continued to defend previously occupied positions.*
*Russian occupation authorities began issuing Russian passports in Kherson City and Melitopol, though they continue to face challenges establishing societal control over occupied territories and ending Ukrainian partisan actions.*



* 
We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.
ISW has updated its assessment of the four primary efforts Russian forces are engaged in at this time. We have stopped coverage of Mariupol as a separate effort since the city’s fall. We had added a new section on activities in Russian-occupied areas:*

Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate main effort- Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
Supporting effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting effort 2—Southern axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces attempted a series of unsuccessful assaults on Barvinkove (southwest of Izyum) and several settlements southeast of Izyum on June 3. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces attempted to resume an offensive operation towards Barvinkove but did not secure any gains.[8] A Russian attack against Sviatohirsk, approximately 27km southeast of Izyum along the major road to Slovyansk, also failed.[9] Ukrainian Defense Ministry Spokesperson Oleksandr Motuzyanyk reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian assaults on Bohorodychne and Dolyna, both located along the Izyum-Slovyansk highway, and Studenok, approximately 18km southeast of Izyum.[10] Russian forces likely attempted to assault Sviatohirsk from both the northwest from Izyum and east from Lyman, as the forward positions of Russian forces on the Lyman front in Bohorodychne are only 5km west of the settlement. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are accumulating up to 20 battalion tactical groups (BTGs) in the Izyum area, but these units are highly unlikely to be fully staffed or equipped.[11] Russian forces may be generating forces and renewing attacks towards Barvinkove, as opposed to continued stalled attacks directly towards Slovyansk from Izyum, in an attempt to bypass Ukrainian defenses. Russian forces are unlikely to make major gains on the Izyum front in the coming days, however.
Russian forces continued to carry out ground assaults in Severodonetsk with partial success on June 3. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces conducted assaults on the eastern part of the city and achieved some unspecified successes.[12] Russian forces attacking in Metolkine, just southeast of Severodonetsk, did not make any territorial gains and retreated to previously controlled positions.[13] Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai reported that Ukrainian defenders are conducting local counterattacks and retook several blocks in an unspecified location, though ISW cannot confirm the exact control of terrain within Severodonetsk and Russian forces likely control much of the city.[14] The Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) Ambassador to Russia, Rodion Miroshnik, claimed that Russian and LNR forces are conducting assaults on the outskirts of Severodonetsk and are advancing towards the Azot Chemical Plant to suppress any Ukrainian resistance, intentionally comparing it to the past Ukrainian defense of the Azovstal Steel Plant in Mariupol.[15] A social media video also depicted Russian forces transporting pontoon bridge equipment to the Severodonetsk area to support future attempts to cross the Siverskyi Donetsk River and begin an assault on Lysychansk.[16] Russian forces also failed to take control of the eastern bank of the Siverskyi Donets River in continued assaults.[17] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that elements of the 1st and 2nd Army Corps (the armed forces of the DNR and LNR), the Russian 8th, 58th, and 5th Combined Arms Armies, the 90th Tank Division, and unspecified airborne troops area all committed to ongoing operations to capture Severodonetsk and Lysychansk.[18] These units are likely heavily degraded from earlier operations and operating without repalcements or rotations to rest frontline units after over three months of fighting.
Russian forces conducted several offensive operations towards Bakhmut, Soledar, and Lysychansk from Popasna, but did not secure any new territory.[19] The Ukrainian General Staff claimed that unspecified elements of the 150th Motorized Rifle Division of the Combined Arms Army suffered up to 50% losses of personnel and equipment in Popasna, though this statement is unlikely to refer to the division as a whole.[20] Russian forces did not conduct offensive operations west or east of Avdiivka.[21] A Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) commander claimed on Russian state television that Russian and DNR forces are slowly advancing near Avdiivka due to strong “Right Sector” resistance (a common Kremlin talking point claiming that any Ukrainian successes are due to actions by nationalist units) in the area.[22]







*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces continued to launch air strikes and fire artillery at Kharkiv City and northern Kharkiv Oblast on June 3.[23] Russian military Telegram channel Swodki claimed that Russians forces are conducting an offensive operation against Fedorivka and Shestakove, approximately 30km east of Kharkiv City, but Ukrainian officials reported that Russian forces focused on defending their previously occupied positions.[24] Ukrainian Defense Ministry Spokesperson Oleksandr Motuzyanyk reported that Ukrainian defenders continued to confront Russian units of the 6th Combined Arms Army, Baltic Fleet, and the Donetsk People’s Republic’s 1st Army Corps.[25]




*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporozhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces unsuccessfully attempted to regain lost positions in northeastern Kherson Oblast, but largely focused on defending occupied positions throughout southern Ukraine. Dnipropetrovsk Oblast Council Chairman Mykola Lukashuk said that Ukrainian defenders repelled Russian assaults on settlements near the Kherson-Dnipropetrovsk Oblast border on June 3.[26] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command also stated that Russian forces unsuccessfully engaged in a skirmish in Lozove, a liberated settlement on the eastern Inhulets Riverbank and near the eastern Mykolaiv-Kherson Oblast border.[27] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are moving reserves to advanced positions and are intensifying air reconnaissance to prevent further Ukrainian counteroffensives in northeastern Kherson Oblast.[28] Ukrainian counteroffensives in northeastern Kherson Oblast began in late May and have likely pushed Russian forces back to defensive positions on the eastern bank of the Inhulets River.[29]




*Activity in Russian-occupied areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian occupation authorities began distributing Russian passports in occupied Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts on June 3. Ukrainian and Russian sources reported that Russian occupation forces opened passport offices in Kherson City and Melitpol and a plan to open more centers throughout Zaporizhia Oblast.[30] Russian-appointed Crimean leader Sergey Aksyonov claimed that Crimea will assist in organizing passport centers in the newly occupied territories.[31] Russian passportization efforts are prompting an increase in partisan activity in southern Ukraine. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported that Ukrainian partisans called on Kherson citizens to burn down a passport center.[32] Russian Telegram channels additionally reported that partisans are threatening civilians that have received Russian passports.[33]
The Kremlin is reportedly sending officials to administer Ukrainian agribusiness. Ukrainian Deputy Defense Minister Hanna Malyar stated that Russian representatives from the Caucasus are relocating to Kherson Oblast to manage agricultural production in southern Ukraine.[34] The Ukrainian Embassy in Beirut said that Russia has already exported about 100,000 tons of Ukrainian wheat to Syria.[35] The Russian Foreign Ministry claimed that Ukrainians used agricultural products to purchase Western military equipment, likely in an effort to justify Russian forces seizing Ukrainian businesses.[36] Russian occupation authorities continue to face challenges in establishing bureaucratic control over southern Ukraine. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported that Russian occupation authorities are forced to bring “Russian specialists” to Zaporizhia Oblast because Ukrainians overwhelmingly refuse to cooperate with Russian forces. The Ukrainian Resistance Center added that these ”Russian specialists” will undergo regular rotations from their jobs in Russia to occupied territories.[37]
The Kremlin carried out measures to further assert permanent control over occupied Luhansk Oblast and economically link occupied Ukrainian territory to Russia itself at the local level. Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobyanin signed an agreement on trade, economic, scientific, technical and cultural cooperation between Moscow and Luhansk City with the Head of the Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR), Leonid Pasechnik, on June 3.[38] ISW previously reported that officials in occupied Mariupol and St. Petersburg signed a similar pact on June 1.[39] The Kremlin also opened a United Russia Party “humanitarian headquarters” in Popasna and sent representatives of the Russian Investigative Committee to Rubizhne.[40]

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532828332076695552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532825525512814593

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532825024171745280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532824742750715921

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532823979723038720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532823180372475904
It is obvious.. even If the entire world gathers against Russia (an impossibility!), they will not be able to defeat it with its 6000+ nuclear warheads capable of eliminating the human race from existence..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532823329417187329

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532823184277397504

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## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531762588584923142Exactly 90 days ago, UK said only 2 days of missiles ammunition is left for Russia 😁

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532391759459786758


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532822754659016704

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532823637438480385

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532823645625655296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532821130754633728

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## _Nabil_

Ukraine envoy says Turkey among destinations of grain stolen by Russia


Kyiv's ambassador to Ankara said on Friday Turkish buyers were among those receiving grain that Russia stole from Ukraine, adding he has sought Turkey's help to identify and capture individuals responsible for the shipments.




www.reuters.com

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532820997698617344

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532820826319372288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532820565207154688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532820572958339079

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## _Nabil_

NYP: 









Biden says Ukraine might have to give Russia land in ‘negotiated settlement’


Russian President Vladimir Putin’s war objectives remain murky, but Biden claimed in February that Putin was attempting “re-establish the former Soviet Union” by seizing territory…




www.google.com





*Biden says Ukraine might have to give Russia land in ‘negotiated settlement’
By Steven Nelson

June 3, 2022 | 12:42pm*


----------



## zartosht

Austrian colonel Markus Reisner the head of the research and development academy of austrian officers

Gives a very professional, and honest analysis.... Even though he is still pro-ukrainian in bias, He still explains really well how poor of a strategic situation the Ukies are in.

doesnt seem to share the enthusiasm of shitstream media, and american think tanks

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## jhungary

HydraChess said:


> Yes. A LOT! EVERY DAMN WHERE! Their President does it almost on a daily/weekly basis, amplified by US/UK/Germany based media outlets.
> 
> "Give us Air Cover"
> "They are kidnapping our children! 200K taken!"
> "They are bombing buildings marked as children!"
> "They are killing civilians! Human rights violators! Devils!"
> "They are blowing up our historical places!"
> "Give us Air Cover! Now!"
> "Give us weapons! Now!"
> "Shame on you! You do business with Russia!"
> 
> Just some examples.
> 
> PS : I have no special affinity to Russia. Putin can and should go to hell for being a slimey little dictator. That being said, I feel sick of US/UK/German hypocrisy.



well, are those bitching?? Or just reflecting the fact that NATO need to gave us the fighter jet, they are really deporting 200,000 of Ukrianian children and they are really killing civilian (Saw plenty of that over there). Which is something YOU DON'T DO IN WAR

You can keep your hypocrisy and blame West or US or whatever, but that does not justify this war, because the Russian is not attacking US or EU, since when Ukraine invade anyone? You are justifying Russian action invading someone because US/EU/NATO invading someone else, the moment you do that, you cannot cry western hypocrisy because you are justifying the same thing, so if you cry Western Hypocrisy and support Russian Invasion at the same time, you are justifying something you opposing someone else, which make YOU the hypocrite.



HydraChess said:


> In all the description of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I have never seen these bombing described as "ground burst". They have always been described as "air burst" assisted by barometer. And seriously, half a kilometer in air, is very much an air-burst.
> 
> If you have sources to contary, I am happy to look at them.
> 
> Lets, however, circle back to original point: Can Russia do a nuke attack limited to Kiev leaving mascow intact? If US could do it back in 40s. I am sure as hell, Russia can do it now. If anyone in the world can, Russia surely can.



Ground Burst is using air drop and land deployed (ie Dirty Bomb) device and detonate below the atmosphere so the damage is limited. That's the definition of Ground Burst. Air Burst is above the fall off free area, radioactive substance have its own density, it will not be flowing above certain height, like precipitation, oxygen and carbon dioxide, that height is 1000 meters more or less for Plutonium Particle, 20,000 meters for Oxygen, which mean if a bomb or missile is detonate within that height, it's fallout go up and cloud up, air burst go down and disperse.

I seriously doubt you know anything about Nuclear war, but whatever.



HydraChess said:


> The curvature of earth is convex and not concave. So I doubt earth's curvature will get in way.



Dude, this is about Line of Sight, this is how Fall Out work, and this is the same thing how Radar work (Because it is the same theory, just instead of a beam of radiation to detect aerial target, you have a mass of radioactive particle that spread across an area via an explosion.) Fall out need to be above certain height to be able to affect an area without any obstruction, it's because the curvature of the earth is convex, any particular point above that point is blocked by the curvature of the earth itself, this is exactly like how or why radar cannot detect low flying aircraft. Because below certain height, you cannot detect the aircraft because the earth itself is blocking it as those beam don't bend. Fall out not only have to clear the curvature of the earth but also any building on earth, so they can keep the line of sight open









Line-of-sight propagation - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532820312550780931

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532819648181587968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532818979626135554

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532819045694771201


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532818627623374850

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532846427407261696


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532841019548520448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532841030332076032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532841035293933568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532841041350500352

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532841052599615488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532841056932356097

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## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> well, are those bitching?? Or just reflecting the fact that NATO need to gave us the fighter jet, they are really deporting 200,000 of Ukrianian children and they are really killing civilian (Saw plenty of that over there). Which is something YOU DON'T DO IN WAR


And should we forget how many children USA roasted by dropping 2 nuclear bombs on Japanese cities just to establish American supremacy? Or all those civilians who were no even in a war zone that were killed by US drone strikes? In Pakistan? In Afghanistan? Why is it a-okay when US and its allies do it but it NOT okay when Russia does it?



jhungary said:


> You can keep your hypocrisy and blame West or US or whatever


You want to see hypocrisy, read above.

When it comes to killing civilians and children, no country did worse than US of A. The same country whose media is amplifying human-rights message coming out of Ukraine. 

The real hypocrisy is US and its allies preaching human rights to Russia after all they have done since forever.



jhungary said:


> Ground Burst is using air drop and land deployed (ie Dirty Bomb) device and detonate below the atmosphere so the damage is limited. That's the definition of Ground Burst. Air Burst is above the fall off free area, radioactive substance have its own density, it will not be flowing above certain height, like precipitation, oxygen and carbon dioxide, that height is 1000 meters more or less for Plutonium Particle, 20,000 meters for Oxygen, which mean if a bomb or missile is detonate within that height, it's fallout go up and cloud up, air burst go down and disperse.
> 
> I seriously doubt you know anything about Nuclear war, but whatever.


As I said before, if you have references, lay them here. I am more than happy to read them.

Meanwhile, here is one of mine : https://nuke.fas.org/guide/usa/doctrine/dod/fm8-9/1ch3.htm

Here is what he says : "An air burst is an explosion in which a weapon is detonated in air at an altitude below 30 km but at sufficient height that the fireball does not contact the surface of the earth."

For a 20 Kt bomb, diameter of fireball is at maximum 145 meters in radius (https://nuclearweaponsedproj.mit.edu/fireball-size-effects). So if detonated at 500 meters+, it will not come in contact with ground.

It was indeed an air-burst.

I can give you more references too, if you like book type of references.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532841066344464384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532841072300380161

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532841079535546368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532841086795792384


----------



## jhungary

HydraChess said:


> And should we forget how many children USA roasted by dropping 2 nuclear bombs on Japanese cities just to establish American supremacy? Or all those civilians who were no even in a war zone that were killed by US drone strikes? In Pakistan? In Afghanistan? Why is it a-okay when US and its allies do it but it NOT okay when Russia does it?
> 
> 
> You want to see hypocrisy, read above.
> 
> When it comes to killing civilians and children, no country did worse than US of A. The same country whose media is amplifying human-rights message coming out of Ukraine.



Again, you can call foul for the US if you like, you cannot use what US did to another country to justify Russian did to Ukraine, if you do that, and keep the same attitude, then you are a hypocrite

Unless you are seeing this as a game to see who can kill more civilian, then you are not an hypocrite, you are a sick individual.



HydraChess said:


> The real hypocrisy is US and its allies preaching human rights to Russia after all they have done since forever.



See the response above.



HydraChess said:


> As I said before, if you have references, lay them here. I am more than happy to read them.
> 
> Meanwhile, here is one of mine : https://nuke.fas.org/guide/usa/doctrine/dod/fm8-9/1ch3.htm
> 
> Here is what he says : "An air burst is an explosion in which a weapon is detonated in air at an altitude below 30 km but at sufficient height that the fireball does not contact the surface of the earth."
> 
> For a 20 Kt bomb, diameter of fireball is at maximum 145 meters in radius (https://nuclearweaponsedproj.mit.edu/fireball-size-effects). So if detonated at 500 meters+, it will not come in contact with ground.
> 
> It was indeed an air-burst.
> 
> I can give you more references too, if you like book type of references.


Can you actually read??

This is what it said on the FAS reference you supplied.



> 304. Types of Bursts.





> The relative effects of blast, heat, and nuclear radiation will largely be determined by the altitude at which the weapon is detonated. Nuclear explosions are generally classified as air bursts, surface bursts, subsurface bursts, or high altitude bursts.
> 
> a. _Air Bursts._ An air burst is an explosion in which a weapon is detonated in air at an altitude* below 30 km* but *at sufficient height that the fireball does not contact the surface of the earth*. After such a burst, blast may cause considerable damage and injury. The altitude of an air burst can be varied to obtain maximum blast effects, maximum thermal effects, desired radiation effects, or a balanced combination of these effects. Burns to exposed skin may be produced over many square kilometers and eye injuries over a still larger area. Initial nuclear radiation will be a significant hazard with smaller weapons, but the fallout hazard can be ignored as there is essentially no local fallout from an air burst. The fission products are generally dispersed over a large area of the globe unless there is local rainfall resulting in localized fallout. In the vicinity of ground zero, there may be a small area of neutron-induced activity which could be hazardous to troops required to pass through the area. Tactically, air bursts are the most likely to be used against ground forces.
> 
> b. _Surface Burst._ *A surface burst is an explosion in which a weapon is detonated on or slightly above the surface of the earth so that the fireball actually touches the land or water surface*. Under these conditions, the area affected by blast, thermal radiation, and initial nuclear radiation will be less extensive than for an air burst of similar yield, except in the region of ground zero where destruction is concentrated. In contrast with air bursts, local fallout can be a hazard over a much larger downwind area than that which is affected by blast and thermal radiation.



The high lighted is about the Line of Sight

Also, the target is not Hiroshima (That's the city the target is in), Hiroshima is a city with the size of around 1000 square kilometres, while the bomb did detonated at around 2000 fts from Hiroshima, the target was Aioi Bridge in Hiroshima and the detonation is at 550 ft above the bridge, so yes, ground is touched









The Atomic Bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki (U.S. National Park Service)







www.nps.gov







> 0916:02 (8:16:02am in Hiroshima)- After falling from the Enola Gay for 43 seconds, Little Boy detonates 1,968 feet above Hiroshima, *550 feet from the Aioi Bridge*. Nuclear fission begins in 0.15 microseconds.











Aioi Bridge - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org







> was the aiming point for the 1945 Hiroshima atom bomb because its shape was easily recognized from the air



You can't just bomb "Hiroshima" the pilot will ask you "Where would I aim at"? You have to aim at something.....

And again, go ahead and believe nuking Ukraine will have no effect on Russia themselves, I mean that's your opinion, as I said, I hope you were not in Moscow when they really do nuke them.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532922563587985408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532680427324035075

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532853985916223488

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## lcloo

KendoKhan said:


> But Ukraine will win. That’s a fact.


You have been severely brain washed...

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## F-22Raptor

If the Ukrainians only had the M1299 self propelled howitzers that will fire shells out 70-100km. First US Army M1299 battalion will be equipped next year.

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> German foreign Minister Baerbock just yesterday said we will continue to supply heavy weapons till Russia is crushed in Ukraine and no Bucha can happen again.
> 
> 
> I agree with her.



Bucha can happen again ? Did you actually find what happened there the first time ? 



Apollon said:


> On a sidenote i find Russia repulsive and rather ewwww. The more the contact is cut off, the better.
> 
> 
> You have no clue how disgusting it is for someone with higher cultural standards to be forced near people with lower standards.



Yes, "higher cultural standards" like you giggling about how your psycho Ukrainian friend has a bag with the jaw of a Russian soldier.

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## DF41

Steppe Wolff said:


> @Wolfhunter Don’t quote me again. Racists like you are on my ignore list.


and you find more time to




enjoy your coffee







and smell roses

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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532837244460883968

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## gambit

Wolfhunter said:


> Stop comparing the real world with Command and Conquer:


That is all these sofa soldiers have to go by...

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## khansaheeb

US Ex-General says Russia cannot be defeated and after Russia achieves it's goal of taking Donbass region there will be a stalemate as Russian forces dig in. He also says there will be a long insurgency as one pi$$ed off Ukrainian population who have lost loved ones, livelihoods and homes will harbour hatred of Russians for a long time.


----------



## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532712278646263809

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## Meengla

jhungary said:


> It is more or less 21% actually, but 12% of those were Donbas (~7% Before when Separatist already holding) and Crimea (4%). Which mean for the entire almost 100 days war, Russian gain 9% of Ukraine conventionally, technically, they did better in that one day in 2014 then this 100 days war, this is not really anything to celebrate if you were Russian military. With how many men and equipment lost currently?
> 
> There are currently a counter offensive in Kherson which Russia is seemingly dislodged from their first defence line and now only 10 km from Kherson, not sure if Russia can stop this as they are running out of manpower in the south, given they have given the East 70% of the force (60 our of 90 BTG went to the East) Depends on the number and size of the Ukrainian push some analyst say they can make all the way to Kherson, some say they can't, I am probably more reserve and say they can't, but that would mean Odessa would be largely safe, because Russia can't attack from the sea unless there is a land route, and they need to go over and take Mykolaiv if they want that land route, not being beating back by the Ukrainian.
> 
> And in case you have not notice, Panjshir is still in fighting off Taliban even today as I type, you don't know because virtually nobody care about them now. And from the news, they are still doing pretty good job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fierce fighting rages in Panjshir as anti-Taliban forces hammer call for inclusive government in Afghanistan CanIndia News
> 
> 
> New Delhi, June 2: Away from the media glare, a fierce battle is ongoing between the Taliban and Ahmad Massoud led National Resistance Force (NRF) on many fronts in Panjshir Valley and other parts of northern Afghanistan. Over the past few weeks, the armed anti-Taliban resistance has picked up...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.canindia.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Afghan resistance attack Taliban, sparking reprisals in Panjshir
> 
> 
> The attack reportedly killed a number of Taliban fighters in a resistance stronghold in the north.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com



"And in case you have not notice, Panjshir is still in fighting off Taliban even today as I type, you don't know because virtually nobody care about them now. And from the news, they are still doing pretty good job."

To quote someone above overall: "Oh Chacha Bus!" [Only Indians and Pakistanis would really understand that]. 

No offense, but you seem clinging onto something which I don't see happening. I actually admire the posts from our Kazakhstani poster in this thread who seems to know a lot about the battlefield knowledge, though anti-Russia, then seemingly too-ideological positions like yours and a certain American 'veteran' from a very bygone era....

PS. My Pakistani relatives and friends often say that they know best about what's happening in the Pakistani politics because they live there. To that, I'd counter: If all those who live in Pakistan are so smart then how is Pakistan in such a bad shape despite their great knowledge?? In the same vein, a 'veteran' of wars or a retired soldier is not necessarily more qualified than someone without such background....

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> No sane human should read the propaganda gibberish that is constantly passed as analysis by Neocons at the ISW. It is the same group of people who engineered the wars against Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria and then installed Zelensky in Ukraine in order to wage this war against Russia. I am not sure why people have a short memory. Nobody should listen to this evil. 👇
> 
> View attachment 850807


I am pretty sure that noone here has such a short memory that they do not remember that you are spamming the thread with this picture a couple of times per day.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

HydraChess said:


> Its more like : We see "you/west" do it all the time, so "we/russia" did it too. And now you are all up in arms and invoking democracy, freedom, sovereignty and what not. I mean where were all these when "west/US" invaded Afghanistan? Vietnam? Or helped UAE invade Yemen? Or carried out drone strikes on civilians in tribal areas of Pakistan?
> 
> What is that egregiously evil thing that Russia has done which CIA / UK/ US has not been doing since ... forever?


Maybe Afghanistan should not have allied themselves with Al-Qaeda before 9/11, making the invasion legal.
The West did not invade Vietnam. It supported South Vietnam against FNL and an invadion by North Vietnam.
Open another thread if you want to discuss it.


----------



## Hack-Hook

Wolfhunter said:


> Hahah what are they going to target US bases with?
> 
> *This cold war piece of shite? *
> View attachment 850759


wonder if some country still don't use b-52 and b-1

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## Viet

Paul2 said:


> I don't think they were naive, I think it was clear for the start that Austria, and Germany were the most red infiltrated countries in the EU — both being a core of EU.
> 
> Macron's second tour meant that second leg of EU was also lame. He was completely mentally dominated by reds. Pussolini handled him as a pet poodle.
> 
> And the UK was out of EU as such.
> 
> Russians attacked because they thought they will never get such a rare chance again.
> 
> The US should look after their Washington politburo (Feinstein, Bushes, Libelman, Kissy) too. The amount of obvious infiltration is mind boggling, there are literally naturalised US citizens who are CPC members working as congress staffers.


Kissinger is an interesting person he helped to break a deal for a peace at the height of the Vietnam war. Now he wants Ukraine to give parts of territory to end the Russian invasion. Back then the north Vietnamese were not easy to be fooled. They accepted formal peace deal then launched the final assault against south Vietnam.


----------



## jhungary

Meengla said:


> "And in case you have not notice, Panjshir is still in fighting off Taliban even today as I type, you don't know because virtually nobody care about them now. And from the news, they are still doing pretty good job."
> 
> To quote someone above overall: "Oh Chacha Bus!" [Only Indians and Pakistanis would really understand that].
> 
> No offense, but you seem clinging onto something which I don't see happening. I actually admire the posts from our Kazakhstani poster in this thread who seems to know a lot about the battlefield knowledge, though anti-Russia, then seemingly too-ideological positions like yours and a certain American 'veteran' from a very bygone era....
> 
> PS. My Pakistani relatives and friends often say that they know best about what's happening in the Pakistani politics because they live there. To that, I'd counter: If all those who live in Pakistan are so smart then how is Pakistan in such a bad shape despite their great knowledge?? In the same vein, a 'veteran' of wars or a retired soldier is not necessarily more qualified than someone without such background....


Well, as I said, I don't know or really care about what happened in Panjshir, they can win, they can lose, that is nothing that concern me, I mean, I did my part 15 years ago, that's their country, if they want to fight the Taliban, good on them, if not, that's fine with me, I don't live in Afghanistan. Same thing with the Ukrainian, I went there, train one of their rotation, it is up to them to fight, I don't teach them to be a soldier, I taught them how to survive in war. they can perform lousy or get a few medal of honor equivalent award. That's something I cannot project or predict. 

As for Russia situation in Ukraine, I stated fact, and if you look thru my situation report, about 70% of what I wrote come true after I wrote (you can go back and check on my post if you want), I don't sugar coat stuff and I don't blindly believe whatever the press told me. Am I in the by-gone era or my experience no longer relevant?? I don't know, but all I know is I am around 70% right about the direction this war is going. I don't care about being right or wrong either, I am just expressing my view, like you. But unlike you, I did went to war and have been trained in tactical and strategical thinking as a frontline infantry officer, of course you are more than welcome to disagree with me. That's your business if you don't see the war that way.

And finally, none of what I said have anything to do with Pakistan.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Maybe he really is dying, so he couldn't care less.
> 
> I can't think of anyone that think logically would think a full blown invasion is an answer to their problem.


Putin is a victim of his own propaganda. He thought the russian army would roll over Ukraine by dinner. However in reality is too corrupt, too weak. They fight like the old days in 20. The western armies are in 21. I have one another explanation for their weakness: they train too much with the PLA. Now he wakes up and maybe becomes more dangerous. he still can resort to all out war or nukes to save his ambitions.


----------



## Hack-Hook

khansaheeb said:


> US Ex-General says Russia cannot be defeated and after Russia achieves it's goal of taking Donbass region there will be a stalemate as Russian forces dig in. He also says there will be a long insurgency as one pi$$ed off Ukrainian population who have lost loved ones, livelihoods and homes will harbour hatred of Russians for a long time.


they are fool if don't make a corridor to Moldova


----------



## DF41

DF41 said:


> Let us talk of the transgressions against Russia created by USA and NATO and the blatant killing of Russian speakers in Eastern part of Ukraine encouraged by USA and NATO that caused Russia to finally react after 8 over years of patience.
> 
> Why do you want to talk of the end part and not the way the war was caused by USA and NATO?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you must be kidding if you think you a brown banana with the rights of white British and the same rights as that of the white financiers.
> 
> *GROW UP!
> OR YOU END UP WHERE THE SUN AND MOON DO NOT SHINE AND COCKROACHES ROAM
> AS YOU OTHERWISE GOT NOTHING INTELLIGENT TO TELL ME OR ANYONE WITH BRAINS
> 
> YOU CAN TELL THE COCKROACHES THOUGH, AND THOSE ALREADY THERE.*
> 
> View attachment 850587








*Being given 2 NEGATIVES proved the truth of John Mearshimmer!!
John Mearshimmer findings agreed to almost universally other than by Whitehouse Nuland and NED and doggies in thrall to NED

That the war in Ukraine was a righteous war by Russia to denazified the Nazis and to drain the poison that the Whitehouse and NED and their minions so desperate to preserve in Ukriane Nazis.

Or am I punished for calling a brown banana a brown banana ?( thinking himself to be white inside but brown outside)

Or my declaration of casting the unwanted to where sun and moon not shine and cockroaches roam?

Or just some entities with power that show how they can abuse power to whims and fancy*

_

Let us talk of the transgressions against Russia created by USA and NATO and the blatant killing of Russian speakers in Eastern part of Ukraine encouraged by USA and NATO that caused Russia to finally react after 8 over years of patience.

Why do you want to talk of the end part and not the way the war was caused by USA and NATO?









And you must be kidding if you think you a brown banana with the rights of white British and the same rights as that of the white financiers.

*GROW UP!
OR YOU END UP WHERE THE SUN AND MOON DO NOT SHINE AND COCKROACHES ROAM
AS YOU OTHERWISE GOT NOTHING INTELLIGENT TO TELL ME OR ANYONE WITH BRAINS

YOU CAN TELL THE COCKROACHES THOUGH, AND THOSE ALREADY THERE.*
_

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Putin is a victim of his own propaganda. He thought the russian army would roll over Ukraine by dinner. However in reality is too corrupt, too weak. They fight like the old days in 20. The western armies are in 21. I have one another explanation for their weakness: they train too much with the PLA. Now he wakes up and maybe becomes more dangerous. he still can resort to all out war or nukes to save his ambitions.


really depends.

Conventional Military wisdom suggest not to fortify a mistake. Because you only made more mistake. I don't see how Russia can turn this around, this stage is conventional stage, it wasn't even the long run, and it's only long because the Russian sheer incompetence that dragging this conventional war stage.

What Russia is still looking ahead is to conquer the objective they try to conquer, that in itself is hard enough as the Ukrainian putting up a fight, and after that, Russia is looking at a large scale occupation and insurgency war, akin to what the American went thru in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I can tell you this, if Russia is only barely afford to pull off a conventional strike, there are no way they can survive the occupation and insurgency, as I said many, MANY time before, occupation and insurgency take up a lot of manpower and resource. In US term, the war expenditure expanded nearly 20 folds when the war switch from conventional to insurgency, because there are going to be a lot of damage and replacement involved.........How are Russian going to pull this off with their official bankrupt economy itself is a serious issue. Don't forget once they default, nobody is going to borrow money to Russia, and making an already hard situation worse, I mean, it's not easy to find a bank that are willing to finance Russian debt as it is, with default on their record??


----------



## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> Again, you can call foul for the US if you like, you cannot use what US did to another country to justify Russian did to Ukraine, if you do that, and keep the same attitude, then you are a hypocrite


If US and allies are hypocrite, why should a higher bar be expected out of anyone else? I am hypocrite, Russia is hypocrite thats fine. We are in a big club of hypocrite that includes US, UK, Australia. We are fine with that. If hypocracy is fine (since it is practiced widely), whats the point of crying about children being killed in war, or civilians killed or anything for that matter? Its all fair in war then, right? Ergo, we should not ever give one single damn to all those news papers throwing gallons of ink on ukranians and what not. After all, they gave two damn about haji girl, they gave two damns about all those families killed in tribal regions of Pakistan.



jhungary said:


> Unless you are seeing this as a game to see who can kill more civilian, then you are not an hypocrite, you are a sick individual.


No, I am seeing this to be bullshit it is. Since whites are suffering it is news. Since europeans are being throws out of their cities its news. Had it been Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq etc, it would have been business as usual. Guess what? We don't care.



jhungary said:


> Also, the target is not Hiroshima (That's the city the target is in), Hiroshima is a city with the size of around 1000 square kilometres, while the bomb did detonated at around 2000 fts from Hiroshima, the target was Aioi Bridge in Hiroshima and the *detonation is at 550 ft above the bridge, so yes, ground is touched*


Detonation altitude was 1903 *ft* or 580 *meters* above. So NO, fireball can not touch the ground. Hence an air burst.

Reference : https://www.osti.gov/opennet/manhattan-project-history/publications/LANLHiroshimaNagasakiYields.pdf

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## jhungary

HydraChess said:


> If US and allies are hypocrite, why should a higher bar be expected out of anyone else? I am hypocrite, Russia is hypocrite thats fine. We are in a big club of hypocrite that includes US, UK, Australia. We are fine with that. If hypocracy is fine (since it is practiced widely), whats the point of crying about children being killed in war, or civilians killed or anything for that matter? Its all fair in war then, right? Ergo, we should not ever give one single damn to all those news papers throwing gallons of ink on ukranians and what not. After all, they gave two damn about haji girl, they gave two damns about all those families killed in tribal regions of Pakistan.



Well, as I said, you cannot have the cake and eat it. You either say that the US is hypocrite for condemning something they do themselves, or you support Russia for doing something the West would have done. 

What you can't do is that you cannot condemn the West and support Russia. 

How hard is it to understand the moment you take Russian side, in a conflict that have nothing to do with the West, you are on the Russian camp, which make your "Condemnation" of the west a hypocricy.




HydraChess said:


> No, I am seeing this to be bullshit it is. Since whites are suffering it is news. Since europeans are being throws out of their cities its news. Had it been Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq etc, it would have been business as usual. Guess what? We don't care.



So you are saying you are a racist now? I don't see any better than being sick in the mind.



HydraChess said:


> Detonation altitude was 1903 *ft* or 580 *meters* above. So NO, fireball can not touch the ground. Hence an air burst.
> 
> Reference : https://www.osti.gov/opennet/manhattan-project-history/publications/LANLHiroshimaNagasakiYields.pdf
> 
> View attachment 850979


Again, this is the height (Elevation) from the city of Hiroshima, City of Hiroshima is a city size of 906 square meters. One place in Hiroshima would have different elevation than another place in Hiroshima. *You literally CANNOT drop a bomb on Hiroshima, unless your bomb is 906 sq meter wide*. You drop the bomb at a place in Hiroshima and it detonated there, and that place, according to Park Service archieve is Aioi Bridge, as I show the quote, the bomb was drop 550 ft above the Aioi Bridge. So yes, it touch the ground around Aioi Bridge. Making it Ground Burst......


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## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> Again, this is the height (Elevation) from the city of Hiroshima, City of Hiroshima is a city size of 906 square meters. One place in Hiroshima would have different elevation than another place in Hiroshima.


Here is where the bomb was dropped, indicating the ground zero.






Here is the elevation map of this region.








Hiroshima topographic map, elevation, relief


Naka-ku, Hiroshima, Préfecture de Hiroshima, Chūgoku, Japon - Free topographic maps visualization and sharing.




en-us.topographic-map.com










Ground zero and area around it, the city is less than 200 feet of elevation. Even elevation can not lower the detonation height to 500 ft like you are suggesting.

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## jhungary

HydraChess said:


> Here is where the bomb was dropped, indicating the ground zero.
> 
> View attachment 850982
> 
> 
> Here is the elevation map of this region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hiroshima topographic map, elevation, relief
> 
> 
> Naka-ku, Hiroshima, Préfecture de Hiroshima, Chūgoku, Japon - Free topographic maps visualization and sharing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en-us.topographic-map.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 850983
> 
> 
> Ground zero and area around it, the city is less than 200 feet of elevation. Even elevation can not lower the detonation height to 500 ft like you are suggesting.


Again, I am not the one that say they drop it over Aioi Bridge at 550 ft, not really a point try to argue that with me.

It's the US National Park service, if you have any doubt or want to call them misinform, feel free to write to them here






Contact Us (U.S. National Park Service)







www.nps.gov


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## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> Well, as I said, you cannot have the cake and eat it. You either say that the US is hypocrite for condemning something they do themselves, or you support Russia for doing something the West would have done.
> 
> What you can't do is that you cannot condemn the West and support Russia.
> 
> How hard is it to understand the moment you take Russian side, in a conflict that have nothing to do with the West, you are on the Russian camp, which make your "Condemnation" of the west a hypocricy.


Well, lets see. Isn't usa doing precisely the thing you are mentioning? Doing all those acts and then condemning Russia?

So whats wrong if I do the same? supporting Russia and condemning US and its allies?

So what if it makes me hypocrite? I am no worse than US or UK or Australia for that matter!

If entire world is hypocrite, is see no point in being better than the rest.



jhungary said:


> So you are saying you are a racist now? I don't see any better than being sick in the mind.











They are ‘civilised’, ‘European’ and ‘look like us’: the racist coverage of Ukraine | Moustafa Bayoumi


Are Ukrainians more deserving of sympathy than Afghans and Iraqis? Many seem to think so




www.theguardian.com





" I see European people with blue eyes and blond hair … being killed every day."

"We’re not talking here about Syrians fleeing the bombing of the Syrian regime backed by Putin. We’re talking about Europeans leaving in cars that look like ours to save their lives.”

“Now the unthinkable has happened to them. And this is not a developing, third world nation. This is Europe!”

And then you call me racist. May be I am but you have one single person who is not?



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Maybe Afghanistan should not have allied themselves with Al-Qaeda before 9/11, making the invasion legal.


May be Ukraine should not have allied themselves with NATO/USA making the invasion by Russia legal.

PS: Al-Qaeda is US creation.

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## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> Again, I am not the one that say they drop it over Aioi Bridge at 550 ft, not really a point try to argue that with me.
> 
> It's the US National Park service, if you have any doubt or want to call them misinform, feel free to write to them here


Lets look at your reference :









The Atomic Bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki (U.S. National Park Service)







www.nps.gov





"0916:02 (8:16:02am in Hiroshima)- After falling from the Enola Gay for 43 seconds, *Little Boy detonates 1,968 feet above Hiroshima*, *550 feet from the Aioi Bridge*. Nuclear fission begins in 0.15 microseconds."

Its height of detonation was 1968 feet above hiroshima,
Its location was 550 feet away from Aioi bridge.

550 feet was not altitude or height of burst from ground even according to your reference.

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## jhungary

HydraChess said:


> Well, lets see. Isn't usa doing precisely the thing you are mentioning? Doing all those acts and then condemning Russia?
> 
> So whats wrong if I do the same? supporting Russia and condemning US and its allies?
> 
> So what if it makes me hypocrite? I am no worse than US or UK or Australia for that matter!
> 
> If entire world is hypocrite, is see no point in being better than the rest.



Were you always been calling American "Hypocrite"? 

Dude, do you even understand what I said? You can call the American, which you do, "Hypocrite" when they support their own invasion and condemn the Russian invasion, and you are doing the same only in reverse, ie, supporting Russian invasion while condemning the US invasion, then by the same virtual, aren't you what you are calling the American for? Aren't you a hypocrite?



HydraChess said:


> They are ‘civilised’, ‘European’ and ‘look like us’: the racist coverage of Ukraine | Moustafa Bayoumi
> 
> 
> Are Ukrainians more deserving of sympathy than Afghans and Iraqis? Many seem to think so
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> " I see European people with blue eyes and blond hair … being killed every day."
> 
> "We’re not talking here about Syrians fleeing the bombing of the Syrian regime backed by Putin. We’re talking about Europeans leaving in cars that look like ours to save their lives.”
> 
> “Now the unthinkable has happened to them. And this is not a developing, third world nation. This is Europe!”
> 
> And then you call me racist. May be I am but you have one single person who is not?


If the west is racist, they probably not going to take *ANY* Syrian refugee. I mean, how many Syrian refugee was taken by China or India? And are they racist as well?

Taking in refugee is not a must, it's a privilege, no country is oblige to take any refugee, or forced to take any refugee, so who they took is up to those country as well. Did the west ever accused India or China racist when they did not take any Syrian refugee? On the other hand, India and China did took refugee, India has taken quite a lot of Bangladeshi and Sri Lankan refugee, while the Chinese took in numerous Vietnamese and Korean refugee, so if it is racist for India and China not to take Syrian refugee as well??


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## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> Were you always been calling American "Hypocrite"?


And? So what?

If America can do the same thing : Doing evil acts and calling other; why should I have any such restriction?

BTW, by only calling out me, you are being Hypocrite as well.

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## jhungary

HydraChess said:


> Lets look at your reference :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Atomic Bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki (U.S. National Park Service)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nps.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "0916:02 (8:16:02am in Hiroshima)- After falling from the Enola Gay for 43 seconds, *Little Boy detonates 1,968 feet above Hiroshima*, *550 feet from the Aioi Bridge*. Nuclear fission begins in 0.15 microseconds."
> 
> Its height of detonation was 1968 feet above hiroshima,
> Its location was 550 feet away from Aioi bridge.
> 
> 550 feet was not altitude or height of brust from ground even according to your reference.


Again, talk to NPS if you want them to change the wording. 

Also, the agreed ground zero is Shima Hospital









Shima Hospital - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





According to distant calculator Daft Logic, it's not 550 ft from Aioi Bridge, it's 1090 feet







So, no, it does not mean it is the distant between the bridge and the hospital

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## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> If the west is racist, they probably not going to take *ANY* Syrian refugee. I mean, how many Syrian refugee was taken by China or India? And are they racist as well?


Its not a question of India or China taking refugee; its more of a question of where the refugees want to go. West gives them better chance so they go there. Lastly, look at Syria. Which is near? Turkey leading to Greece/Bulgaria OR China and India (via Iran -> Afghanistan / Pakistan -> India/China?

Any one running away from conflict in Syria, will the move towards Turkey or towards Iran/Afghanistan/Pakistan? Geography decides Turkey is better route.



jhungary said:


> Again, talk to NPS if you want them to change the wording.
> 
> Also, the agreed ground zero is Shima Hospital


Their wordings are clear to me. They mentioned height of burst above hiroshima and deviation from target. I guess you may want to reconsider your comprehension or consult someone whom you trust better to comprehend the sentence for you.


----------



## jhungary

HydraChess said:


> And? So what?
> 
> If America can do the same thing : Doing evil acts and calling other; why should I have any such restriction?
> 
> BTW, by only calling out me, you are being Hypocrite as well.


lol, am I a hypocrite?

Show me one post I condemn the Russian invasion? I said many time their invasion is stupid, or even unjustified, but have I ever condemn what the Russian do and say they shouldn't do it?

Go back and read the post you first reply to me. What had I say there?

Again, it's not really that hard to understand you can call American hypocrite for condemning Russian invasion, but if you do it yourself, then you would become hypocrite. There are no restriction, nobody force you not to condemn or condemn Russian invasion, again, just that if you condemn the US and support Russia, that make you a hypocrite.



HydraChess said:


> Its not a question of India or China taking refugee; its more of a question of where the refugees want to go. West gives them better chance so they go there. Lastly, look at Syria. Which is near? Turkey leading to Greece/Bulgaria OR China and India (via Iran -> Afghanistan / Pakistan -> India/China?



So you think Syria seeking asylum in America is closer than India or China?? Also, you pretty much don't have a choice if you are at war. Again, granting refugee to individual is their country preference, there are preference around the world, China prefer Vietnamese and Korean, India prefer Bangladeshi and Sri Lankan, I can't see if they can do that why not Europe perfer European. Now, they are indeed closer. 



HydraChess said:


> Their wordings are clear to me. They mentioned height of burst above hiroshima and deviation from target. I guess you may want to reconsider your comprehension or consult someone whom you trust better to comprehend the sentence for you.


I like how you ignore the fact that map said the distant between the bridge and the ground zero is not 550 ft but rather 1089.9 ft.

So My comprehension and logic is alright, you on the other hand, well, not so much....


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## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> lol, am I a hypocrite?


Yes you are. You are calling me a hypocrite but ignoring mountain of hypocrisy in EVERY single report coming out on Ukraine conflict. Heck you are ignoring hypocrisy of Ukrainian leadership as well.

Look hard enough you will see how hypocrite they all are. Thats what you are not pointing to be fair. Thats what makes you a hypocrite as well.



jhungary said:


> Again, it's not really that hard to understand you can call American hypocrite for condemning Russian invasion, but if you do it yourself, then you would become hypocrite. There are no restriction, nobody force you not to condemn or condemn Russian invasion, again, just that if you condemn the US and support Russia, that make you a hypocrite.


If US/UK/Australia/WaPo/NYT et al are fine being hypocrite. I have no issues being one either.

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## jhungary

HydraChess said:


> Yes you are. You are calling me a hypocrite but ignoring mountain of hypocrisy in EVERY single report coming out on Ukraine conflict. Heck you are ignoring hypocrisy of Ukrainian leadership as well.
> 
> Look hard enough you will see how hypocrite they all are. Thats what you are not pointing to be fair.
> 
> 
> If US/UK/Australia/WaPo/NYT et al are fine being hypocrite. I have no issues being one either.


Dude, I am biased, not hypocrite. I biased toward the West, that's why I don't condemn the war in the East. I did actively participate in the war because whatever I can do to F with the Russian, I would do.

You and I are different. I don't really care much about this war except for me it's an opportunities to F with some Russian.

You do know the different between Biased and Hypocrite, right?


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## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> So you think Syria seeking asylum in America is closer than India or China??


Given a chance, every refugee wants to go to America or Europe. Syrian refugee crisis has been a European crisis first and foremost simply due to geography. American part was the preference. Even if India (I don't know much about China) allows resettlement of refugees in India, how many of them will take that option. More importantly, can Indian beaurocracy even handle it? It certainly can not handle its own domestic affairs and I do not expect it to perform any better at handling a refugee crisis from far away land.

India indeed (mis?)managed its own refugee crisis. Back in 71. Massive influx of refugees from east pakistan. Again geography and preference.

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## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> You do know the different between Biased and Hypocrite, right?


You are baised enough to over look hypocrisy of US and its allies and its media while pointing a finger at those who support Russia . You tell me, what do I call you if not hypocrite. You are doing exactly what you are finger pointing others.

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## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> According to distant calculator Daft Logic, it's not 550 ft from Aioi Bridge, it's 1090 feet


Well, if you feel YOUR REFERENCE, NPS is factually wrong, get a better one. I did not refer to that site, you did.

My reading of the statement stands.

According to it : bomb detonated at a height of 1900 feets above Hiroshima and 550 feets away from the bridge.

If you think YOUR OWN reference is wrong, get a better one. I merely provided you with what your own reference states.

To me its meaning is clear. Its factual accuracy is something I can not comment upon. I am ready to even discount the entire reference and if you find a better one, lets look at it.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> really depends.
> 
> Conventional Military wisdom suggest not to fortify a mistake. Because you only made more mistake. I don't see how Russia can turn this around, this stage is conventional stage, it wasn't even the long run, and it's only long because the Russian sheer incompetence that dragging this conventional war stage.
> 
> What Russia is still looking ahead is to conquer the objective they try to conquer, that in itself is hard enough as the Ukrainian putting up a fight, and after that, Russia is looking at a large scale occupation and insurgency war, akin to what the American went thru in Iraq and Afghanistan.
> 
> I can tell you this, if Russia is only barely afford to pull off a conventional strike, there are no way they can survive the occupation and insurgency, as I said many, MANY time before, occupation and insurgency take up a lot of manpower and resource. In US term, the war expenditure expanded nearly 20 folds when the war switch from conventional to insurgency, because there are going to be a lot of damage and replacement involved.........How are Russian going to pull this off with their official bankrupt economy itself is a serious issue. Don't forget once they default, nobody is going to borrow money to Russia, and making an already hard situation worse, I mean, it's not easy to find a bank that are willing to finance Russian debt as it is, with default on their record??


Putin has money he doesn’t rely on foreign loans. He can fund the army with rubles he prints. However being default means Russia reputation is finished. Having much money in selling oil and gas means little to Russian economy performance in larger picture. The west expects Russian economy will shrink by 15-20 percent this year. Russia living standards will shrink accordingly. Next year will not be better. Interesting point you made about how much more he needs more to occupy the territory once he seized it.


----------



## Apollon

Paul2 said:


> Yet they still can supply cannon fodder at a rate of 2 battalions per week, and have enough towed guns, and mortars in storage to fight WW2 few times over.
> 
> There are few ways to make them rout:
> 
> Exert shocking losses on the rate of first weeks of war, enough to cut them from 7 field armies to less than 6 or 5
> Deep strikes to make them crumble under their own weight
> Push Belgorod, or Crimea to make them lose their cool
> Deep wedging to cut the continuity of their frontline in 2+ places
> Seize air dominance
> I only see the brute force being possible to do with current rate of Western weapon supplies. Russians squander their manpower, and hardware now, and will do more so when more weapons will arrive.
> 
> 2nd is also possible, but still no long range precision fires arrived.
> 
> Push to Belgorod - not enough of own forces, and Joe's nagging
> 
> Deep wedging - not enough armour
> 
> Air - no jets



I agree, kill them faster than their women can push out new cannon food. The higher the losses, the higher internal pressure.



jamahir said:


> Bucha can happen again ? Did you actually find what happened there the first time ?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, "higher cultural standards" like you giggling about how your psycho Ukrainian friend has a bag with the jaw of a Russian soldier.



Yes we know what happened in Bucha. Same as in all regions Russia controls. They murder the people.

Sri Lanka captured an Aeroflot Airbus which was seized by Russia from a irish leasing company. 




https://www.google.com/amp/s/simpleflying.com/aeroflot-a330-detained-in-sri-lanka/amp/



Russians are stuck there now. There goes another destination for Russians.


----------



## Wolfhunter

So Russia won their super duper special operation yet? Asking for a friend….


----------



## ZeGerman

HydraChess said:


> Well, lets see. Isn't usa doing precisely the thing you are mentioning? Doing all those acts and then condemning Russia?
> 
> So whats wrong if I do the same? supporting Russia and condemning US and its allies?
> 
> So what if it makes me hypocrite? I am no worse than US or UK or Australia for that matter!
> 
> If entire world is hypocrite, is see no point in being better than the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are ‘civilised’, ‘European’ and ‘look like us’: the racist coverage of Ukraine | Moustafa Bayoumi
> 
> 
> Are Ukrainians more deserving of sympathy than Afghans and Iraqis? Many seem to think so
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> " I see European people with blue eyes and blond hair … being killed every day."
> 
> "We’re not talking here about Syrians fleeing the bombing of the Syrian regime backed by Putin. We’re talking about Europeans leaving in cars that look like ours to save their lives.”
> 
> “Now the unthinkable has happened to them. And this is not a developing, third world nation. This is Europe!”
> 
> And then you call me racist. May be I am but you have one single person who is not?
> 
> 
> May be Ukraine should not have allied themselves with NATO/USA making the invasion by Russia legal.
> 
> PS: Al-Qaeda is US creation.


I am sick about these racism claims thrown around by people who do not give a shit about people from another faith or country themselves….

Especially since the west poured billions and billions in nationbuilding and humanitarian relief for iraq and afghanistan. And even now takes in refugees from these nations. And even now has a lot of media that we need to help more. (Even more…)
Funny considering we dont care for these “brownies” 

Seriously…look into the mirror. The west is almost the only one giving something outside of cultural/religious block….



ZeGerman said:


> I am sick about these racism claims thrown around by people who do not give a shit about people from another faith or country themselves….
> 
> Especially since the west poured billions and billions in nationbuilding and humanitarian relief for iraq and afghanistan. And even now takes in refugees from these nations. And even now has a lot of media that we need to help more. (Even more…)
> Funny considering we dont care for these “brownies”
> 
> Seriously…look into the mirror. The west is almost the only one giving something outside of cultural/religious block….


Seriously, west should just adopt russian tactics. Lets “denazify” saudi arabia (and claim its oil).

Starve its people (holodomor) and replace them with rednecks from texas. 
Make it a new state of america. It really always was anyway…saudi is just a jewish constructed fake country 🤪.

Any opposing us are part of a conspiracy against our peaceful multipolar world. 
Humanitarian atrocities? Fake news. The saudis are killing their own people to frame us! 
We are the victims. 
Saudi territory is integral to USA security. We are forced to do this.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

HydraChess said:


> May be Ukraine should not have allied themselves with NATO/USA making the invasion by Russia legal.


The invasion of Afghanistan was legally a War of Self-Defense, since an ally of Afghanistan (Al-Qaeda) attacked the United States. just being an ally is not a valid reason for war.
Russias is fighting a War of Agression which is illegal.
There is no comparision.



HydraChess said:


> PS: Al-Qaeda is US creation.


Al-Qaeda was formed by Usama bin Laden with foreign fighters in Afghanistan as a base,
The US funded the Mujahedin, and Pakistan & ISI handled the actual contacts with the Mujahedin, and they mainly considered the foreigners to be a useless nuiscance.

As you do not understand the basics, you are now on ignore.


----------



## ZeGerman

And you are a hypocrite hydrachess. You condemn the west. But defend russia here for something seemingly similar (which it is not completely). 

There are plenty in the west that condemn both (germany/france during iraq war), yet you lump all westerners/whites together and blame them for America’s actions. Borderline racist.

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## Vergennes

Wolfhunter said:


> So Russia won their super duper special operation yet? Asking for a friend….



We are 100 days into the 3 days special military operation but Russia is winning. They have killed 1 trillion Ukrainian nazis and are near to capture Kyiv and hang zelensky. Oh wait.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532831905271488520

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## ZeGerman

HydraChess said:


> Given a chance, every refugee wants to go to America or Europe. Syrian refugee crisis has been a European crisis first and foremost simply due to geography. American part was the preference. Even if India (I don't know much about China) allows resettlement of refugees in India, how many of them will take that option. More importantly, can Indian beaurocracy even handle it? It certainly can not handle its own domestic affairs and I do not expect it to perform any better at handling a refugee crisis from far away land.
> 
> India indeed (mis?)managed its own refugee crisis. Back in 71. Massive influx of refugees from east pakistan. Again geography and preference.


India and china only take in refugees that they see as etnically/culturally indian/chinese…..

This despite the rohingya refugee crisis on their fucking border. 

Again…the west is quite exceptional allowing so many from outside their etnicity/culture to seek refuge, and even settle..in their nations. As a result, becoming multicultural extremely fast.

Yet we get constant blame and critisized for being “racist” and “not allowing enough people in” from near mono-cultural, mono-ethnic nations…who often have far worse minority treatment, never take in foreign refugees, and have immigration laws similar to only what european extreme right dreams of. 

Its a joke! Ridiculous! 
To bad our left tends to be influenced by this narrative…

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532951921971036162

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532951925418770432

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## gambit

HydraChess said:


> As I said before, if you have references, lay them here. I am more than happy to read them.
> 
> Meanwhile, here is one of mine : https://nuke.fas.org/guide/usa/doctrine/dod/fm8-9/1ch3.htm
> 
> Here is what he says : "An air burst is an explosion in which a weapon is detonated in air at an altitude below 30 km but at sufficient height that *the fireball does not contact the surface of the earth."*
> 
> For a 20 Kt bomb, diameter of fireball is at maximum 145 meters in radius (https://nuclearweaponsedproj.mit.edu/fireball-size-effects). So if detonated at 500 meters+, it will not come in contact with ground.
> 
> *It was indeed an air-burst.*
> 
> I can give you more references too, if you like book type of references.


Technically, Little Boy and Fat Man were air bursts in the sense that they did not contact the ground, but that did not make them true air bursts.

Why not? Because of certain requirements...









The trouble with airbursts


What airburst physics tells us about nuclear targeting decisions, and why it took so long for the NUKEMAP to support arbitrary burst heights.




blog.nuclearsecrecy.com





...the Target Committee was talking about in May 1945: they wanted to maximize the radius of the 5 psi overpressure range, and they recognized that this involved finding the correct detonation height and knowing the correct yield of the bomb. They knew about the reflection property and in fact referred to the Mach stem explicitly in their discussion. *Why 5 psi?* *Because that is the overpressure used to destroy “soft” targets* like the relatively flimsy houses used by Japanese civilians,...​
An illustration in the above source explained that '5 psi' requirement. It showed a reflected pressure wave and that pressure wave cannot exist if the detonation is above 'A' altitude and below 'B' altitude. In other words, the bomb had to be technically an air burst but because the detonation is sufficiently close to the ground *WITHOUT TOUCHING THE GROUND*, so the burst is called a surface/ground burst.

*...you can actually see the reflection of the shockwave* in some nuclear testing photography, like this photograph of Shot Grable, the “atomic cannon” test from 1953:​
When I was active duty, my first assignment was the F-111E at RAF Upper Heyford. At Heyford, I was once assigned to Victor Alert duty. Victor Alert is when X amount of jets are taken off the weekly sortie list, moved to a guarded area of the base, loaded with nukes, and each jet have a nav cartridge programmed with specific coordinates. The aircrews do not know what those coordinates are until they are given the order to launch, and by 'launch', I mean actually take off. It means the Weapons System Officer (WSO), the guy that sit on the right seat in the cockpit, have permission to plug the nav cartridge into the jet's INS while the pilot, the guy that sit on the left seat, taxi the jet to the runway for take off.

Those F-111Es were loaded with the B61 freefall nuclear bombs. Back then, the B61 was not equipped with GPS guided tail fins for improved accuracy. All F-111 aircrews, E model at RAF Upper Heyford and F model at RAF Lakenheath, trained with the dive-toss technique. The B61 bomb was capable of being air, surface, or contact (ground) detonation programming.



https://www.airvictorymuseum.com/b61.html




FuzingIn flight fuzing and yield selection merely by turning a dial. Full fuzing options (FUFO): high or low speed delivery, high altitude or low altitude (release heights as low as 50 ft.). Current mods have five fuzing options:

Free fall *air* burst (high altitude only)
Parachute retarded airburst (high or medium altitudes)
Free fall contact burst (high or medium altitudes)
Parachute retarded *contact* burst (high or medium altitudes)
Parachute retarded laydown delayed *surface* burst (delivery altitudes up to 5000 feet), 31 and 81 sec delays available

The Mod 11 has a special ground impact time delay feature to allow it to penetrate into the earth before detonating.

Delivery accuracy <600 feet.

See the difference ? With 'air' and 'ground' bursts, there would be no reflected wave effect.

Back in WW II, Fat Man and Little Boy were not air bursts even though they *TECHNICALLY SPEAKING* never made contact, so they were considered surface/ground bursts because they had to detonate close enough to the ground, without contact, in order to achieve certain physical requirements.

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## Vergennes

Russians have been constantly revising their objectives down but Russian bots like @Hassan Al-Somal will tell us "This was all planned and according to the mighty antichrist Russian plan". Russia's winning but is on the defensive in many parts of the country.

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## SalarHaqq

Danish volunteer in the Ukrainian army confirms: Ukrainians execute Russian POW's.









Russiske krigsfanger bliver henrettet i Ukraine, fortæller dansker


Meget tyder på, at der bliver begået krigsforbrydelser på begge sider i krigen i Ukraine.




nyheder.tv2.dk





More evidence of grave and large scale war crimes committed by the NATO and zionist proxy regime in Kiev. Wholly unsurprising, considering what criminal entities the illegal Ukrainian regime is a vassal of.

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## Primus

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Al-Qaeda was formed by Usama bin Laden with foreign fighters in Afghanistan as a base,
> The US funded the Mujahedin, and Pakistan & ISI handled the actual contacts with the Mujahedin, and they mainly considered the foreigners to be a useless nuiscance.
> 
> Ad you do not understand the basics, you are now on ignore.


Wow.... You actually called the Mujahideen by their actual name instead of Taliban like most people. 👏

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## jamahir

SalarHaqq said:


> Danish volunteer in the Ukrainian army confirms: Ukrainians execute Russian POW's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russiske krigsfanger bliver henrettet i Ukraine, fortæller dansker
> 
> 
> Meget tyder på, at der bliver begået krigsforbrydelser på begge sider i krigen i Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nyheder.tv2.dk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More evidence of grave and large scale war crimes committed by the NATO and zionist proxy regime in Kiev. Wholly unsurprising, considering what criminal entities the illegal Ukrainian regime is a vassal of.



A NATO source of course speaking of the 18-year-old Russian soldier who did not like fighting in Ukraine and the sections about Russian crimes including rapes but at least they are being forced to admit the Ukrainian Nazis doing war crimes to the extent it has affected even a NATO soldier.

@Vergennes @Raffie @Apollon @Wolfhunter



A.P. Richelieu said:


> The invasion of Afghanistan was legally a War of Self-Defense, since an ally of Afghanistan (Al-Qaeda) attacked the United States. just being an ally is not a valid reason for war.



So USA government was very comfortable with the criminals called Taliban during their rule between 1996 and 2001, yes ? Same reason that NATO has brought back Taliban rule last year. Would NATO have left Afghanistan last year if a leftist movement like the Solidarity Party of Afghanistan had a chance for form governance ? The Taliban have been oppressing people for the past one year, especially the females, but NATO which invaded Libya and Syria on the pretext of the systems there "killing civilians including women and children" and initiated regime change operations are not talking about regime-changing Taliban now. Why ?



Huffal said:


> Wow.... You actually called the Mujahideen by their actual name instead of Taliban like most people. 👏



Most of the so-called Afghan Mujahideen were regressive, Wahabi and Tableeghi psychos from all over the world armed, financed and politically supported by NATO ( and unfortunately China ) and its ally Saudia and logistically supported by NATO-proxy Tableeghi dictator "Mard-e-Momin" of Pakistan. A few thousand of these criminals fought in Afghanistan against the progressive Communist governance system of Afghanistan and its backer, USSR. Using these criminals as proxies NATO wanted to regime-change the Communist system in Afghanistan and install a NATO-friendly mullah government. Capitalist-imperialist NATO wanted the end of another progressive leftist society, especially a Muslim-majority one. Osama bin Laden was trained in the mountains of Scotland by British commandos. Here are the fake Afghan mujahideen meeting the American president Reagan :





These were criminals whose latest version is the Taliban. Let us not give them respect by calling them mujahideen.


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## SalarHaqq

@DF41

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## kingQamaR

jamahir said:


> A NATO source of course speaking of the 18-year-old Russian soldier who did not like fighting in Ukraine and the sections about Russian crimes including rapes but at least they are being forced to admit the Ukrainian Nazis doing war crimes to the extent it has affected even a NATO soldier.
> 
> @Vergennes @Raffie @Apollon @Wolfhunter
> 
> 
> 
> So USA government was very comfortable with the criminals called Taliban during their rule between 1996 and 2001, yes ? Same reason that NATO has brought back Taliban rule last year. Would NATO have left Afghanistan last year if a leftist movement like the Solidarity Party of Afghanistan had a chance for form governance ? The Taliban have been oppressing people for the past one year, especially the females, but NATO which invaded Libya and Syria on the pretext of the systems there "killing civilians including women and children" and initiated regime change operations are not talking about regime-changing Taliban now. Why ?
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the so-called Afghan Mujahideen were regressive, Wahabi and Tableeghi psychos from all over the world armed, financed and politically supported by NATO ( and unfortunately China ) and its ally Saudia and logistically supported by NATO-proxy Tableeghi dictator "Mard-e-Momin" of Pakistan. A few thousand of these criminals fought in Afghanistan against the progressive Communist governance system of Afghanistan and its backer, USSR. Using these criminals as proxies NATO wanted to regime-change the Communist system in Afghanistan and install a NATO-friendly mullah government. Capitalist-imperialist NATO wanted the end of another progressive leftist society, especially a Muslim-majority one. Osama bin Laden was trained in the mountains of Scotland by British commandos. Here are the fake Afghan mujahideen meeting the American president Reagan :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These were criminals whose latest version is the Taliban. Let us not give them respect by calling them mujahideen.



Pushtuns are considered brave for historic reasons

Pashtoon is considered to be man of integerity. They fight for integerity, whereas Indians have no such things in their culture.

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## jamahir

kingQamaR said:


> Pushtuns are considered brave for historic reasons
> 
> Pashtoon is considered to be man of integerity. They fight for integerity, whereas Indians have no such things in their culture.



The Pashtuns sitting above with Reagan certainly knew great integrity and honor in becoming proxies of NATO.  And I a not-at-all-honorable Indian almost established the first IT / ITES workers unions federation in India in 2014. Among my other political dabblings.


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## Wolfhunter

What the **** does Afghanistan have to do with Ukraine. Let’s discuss Ukraine war please.


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## kingQamaR

100 days since Macron assured us his friend Mr Pukin had no intention of invading Ukraine...

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## DF41

SalarHaqq said:


> @DF41

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## RoadAmerica

HydraChess said:


> Or use sub kilotonne nukes. Russia is full spectrum nuclear power.
> 
> 
> No. Sweden and Finland are open game.


🤣 just nuke em, doesn’t sound very sane too me

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## RoadAmerica

kingQamaR said:


> It is far worse than is being reported here. The EU states that over 41% of its gas comes from Russia, the second supplier Norway already at maximum capacity is 16%, for crude oil it's even higher from Russia. If Russia stops supplying Europe some predictions are for the wholesale price of gas to quadruple. The shortfall cannot be made up and people will not be able to heat their homes this Winter. Pricing people out of the market will reduce demand, but it's the poor who will suffer, and not the political elites. America has its own gas oil fields so it’s a bit rich lecturing us here in EU to swallow it and not complain about higher costs


It’s a bit rich I should feel sorry for the Europeans marching themselves down this road. I saw gas as a leverage 10 years ago and im just a random joe but the decision makers in Europe couldn’t figure this out????
Unfortunately all signs point to corruption so it’s past time Europe cleans up the mess they backed themselves into.
I can’t feel bad for a 40% increase, it looks like it needed to happen to wake the people up.

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## Vergennes



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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532728435939975168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533040488919584768

The American company Westinghouse will supply nuclear fuel to all nuclear power plants in Ukraine and will create an engineering and technical center in our country

https://www.reuters.com/business/en...se-end-russian-nuclear-fuel-needs-2022-06-03/



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532782031767326720


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533048970376781825

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## jhungary

HydraChess said:


> Well, if you feel YOUR REFERENCE, NPS is factually wrong, get a better one. I did not refer to that site, you did.
> 
> My reading of the statement stands.
> 
> According to it : bomb detonated at a height of 1900 feets above Hiroshima and 550 feets away from the bridge.
> 
> If you think YOUR OWN reference is wrong, get a better one. I merely provided you with what your own reference states.
> 
> To me its meaning is clear. Its factual accuracy is something I can not comment upon. I am ready to even discount the entire reference and if you find a better one, lets look at it.


I don't feel my reference is wrong, you think that. As I said, contact NPS if you think their reference is wrong.

Also, Daft Logic is the map measuring tool, it is 1090 feet not 550 ft from the bridge, that cannot be wrong. So it's pretty obvious either your understanding of what NPS said is wrong, or NPS is wrong. which mean that is between you and NPS. If you think you are not wrong and NPS is, again, use the contact form I supply to contact them.


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## jhungary

HydraChess said:


> You are baised enough to over look hypocrisy of US and its allies and its media while pointing a finger at those who support Russia . You tell me, what do I call you if not hypocrite. You are doing exactly what you are finger pointing others.


You can call me whatever you want, just that if you call me a Hypocrite, the only thing that show is that you don't know what is a Hypocrite.

I am all for US invasion, it's quite obvious when I myself was a part of the invasion in Iraq and Afghanistan (more like ISAF role in Afghan) in fact, I want US to beat Russia from taking more land from the world, that's why I am behind US camp, and that's why I am biased. Even tho I am biased, I don't really care about what Russia do, they can take Ukraine, great. they can't, and that's a matter of fact in the last 100 days of war, I maybe laughed at how inefficient on how Russia war in Ukraine, I may even have contribute my time training TDF to fight off those Russian MFer, I did not once said what Russian do is wrong. So did a lot of Ukrainian, no point telling Russia you are wrong to attack when they are attacking you.

Hypocrite is when I believe what US is doing is correct and no one else and condemn everyone else, again, as I said, I don't care what Russia do or India or China do, as far as I concern, "Come and Take it" if you can, as I am biased toward the west, I choose my position where the west is on. On the other hand, that's what you have been doing.

When you support Russia, you lost the right to condemn the other country doing exactly what Russia did. When you do, you are a hypocrite.

I mean, you can't be on the high horse while supporting Russia. How hard is it to understand??

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Putin has money he doesn’t rely on foreign loans. He can fund the army with rubles he prints. However being default means Russia reputation is finished. Having much money in selling oil and gas means little to Russian economy performance in larger picture. The west expects Russian economy will shrink by 15-20 percent this year. Russia living standards will shrink accordingly. Next year will not be better. Interesting point you made about how much more he needs more to occupy the territory once he seized it.


Well, if you believe people here talking about the situation. Sure, Putin can finance their own war. 

The problem is, if he print rouble to fund the army, then that's sort of defeat the point for people to going to work, because as you print more, the less value it would have. Who are going to go to work if you get pay the equivalent to 4 eggs a day, then 3 eggs, then 2.......you get the idea.

Unless people start doing it for him for free, there are no way I can see he can complete this operation, his country is already bankrupted. Any more misadventure will only make his country further into debt, to a point reputation is not even important anymore, because you are so far into debt that nobody can literally bail you out. The war is costing Russia a lot of money (estimate between 20-40 billions a month) even if Russia sell all their oil and gas at normal price and normal pace, he still can't cover the war. That is the first thing I said when this war started. How long can Russia hold on depends on their war chest, and the rate now is nothing, because Russia is officially bankrupted.


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## SalarHaqq



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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Well, if you believe people here talking about the situation. Sure, Putin can finance their own war.
> 
> The problem is, if he print rouble to fund the army, then that's sort of defeat the point for people to going to work, because as you print more, the less value it would have. Who are going to go to work if you get pay the equivalent to 4 eggs a day, then 3 eggs, then 2.......you get the idea.
> 
> Unless people start doing it for him for free, there are no way I can see he can complete this operation, his country is already bankrupted. Any more misadventure will only make his country further into debt, to a point reputation is not even important anymore, because you are so far into debt that nobody can literally bail you out. The war is costing Russia a lot of money (estimate between 20-40 billions a month) even if Russia sell all their oil and gas at normal price and normal pace, he still can't cover the war. That is the first thing I said when this war started. How long can Russia hold on depends on their war chest, and the rate now is nothing, because Russia is officially bankrupted.



They are at least 5-6 month away from maxing out the money printer.

Even now, they can still exit that campaign without terrible fiscal consequences.

And if the West will chicken out on Russian reserves, they pretty much win 1-3, 1-4 against Ukraine on economy.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533053184645730306

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## chinasun

Napoleon and Hitler underestimated Russia and were glad to see that the West underestimated Russia again. Please continue.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533054226686959619

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532223450432999425

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## Soldier35

The video shows the Russian unified R-149MA1 command and control vehicle designed to provide control and communication at the tactical level in the parking lot or on the move. The communication machine is built on the base - BTR-80 in the back of K1Sh1 and transmits information, including video, via several communication channels at once. The R-149MA1 communication vehicle is capable of conducting all-round surveillance of the battlefield and can create communication networks even in isolation from the main forces.






The Russian Ministry of Defense for the first time showed the work of the newest operational-tactical EW complex Palantin-K in Ukraine. The Palantin complex is 2-3 times superior to the capabilities of the Russian electronic warfare systems of the previous generation. The Russian Palantin-K electronic warfare complex independently detects and disables enemy UAVs, intercepts the signal, and turns on interference. Suppresses various sources of communication and the Internet at enemy positions.

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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532223450432999425



Terrible loss. Soviet radar equipment takes years to train on.

Even sending ground crews as cannon fodder is a terrible trade


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533069886037049345

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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533048970376781825



A mish mash of vehicles. Same thing in the south lately, 1 bmp 1, 1 bmp 2, t72b, 1 trophy t80

They weren't R&Red since the start


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## kingQamaR

RoadAmerica said:


> It’s a bit rich I should feel sorry for the Europeans marching themselves down this road. I saw gas as a leverage 10 years ago and im just a random joe but the decision makers in Europe couldn’t figure this out????
> Unfortunately all signs point to corruption so it’s past time Europe cleans up the mess they backed themselves into.
> I can’t feel bad for a 40% increase, it looks like it needed to happen to wake the people up.



So we can expect another doubling of petrol prices come Christmas then. Lets really show Putin we mean business - by collapsing our economies and causing a famine The west set out to ruin the Russian economy with sanctions, instead, we have wrecked ours

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> They are at least 5-6 month away from maxing out the money printer.
> 
> Even now, they can still exit that campaign without terrible fiscal consequences.
> 
> And if the West will chicken out on Russian reserves, they pretty much win 1-3, 1-4 against Ukraine on economy.


Well, they can hang on probably a quarter after their war chest run out. 6 months is a stretch, because average joe will know in 2 or 3 months they money they are earning is not enough to support their livelihood. Unless average Russia is either so blind or so stupid to realise the difference. That I cannot say.

There are already irreversible harm done to Russian economy, this war start on the back of COVID-19 is a mistake. It will take time to recover to pre-COVID economy, and now using that damaged economy to start a war would make sure Russia is going to have to rely on external factor to restart their economy. If they pull this operation out after 6 months, all harm done to Russian economy is more or less permanent, people are going to off Russian Oil and Gas in 6 months, and those contract are not coming back, lacking of another sort of market in Russia, there are no way I can think of that can replace selling oil and gas to EU.

And the only way Russia can win against Ukraine Economy is when the west dropped Ukraine, if that happen, Ukraine would not just lose the economic front, but also the military front. It's not hard for US and EU to prop up Ukrainian economy, at 201 billions a year, that's actually less than how much money US spend for a year in Afghanistan or the COVID relief package in 2020. I don't see the US and EU dropping Ukrainian economic support but keep the Military support.



chinasun said:


> Napoleon and Hitler underestimated Russia and were glad to see that the West underestimated Russia again. Please continue.


More like Russian underestimate another group of "Russian".

Bear in mind there are no NATO troop in Ukraine, the Russian are fighting the Ukrainian..

There are nothing for NATO to underestimate. We weren't involved. And if the Russian can't deal with some second hand hand me down the west gave the Ukrainian, that's their problem isn't it

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## Viet

chinasun said:


> Napoleon and Hitler underestimated Russia and were glad to see that the West underestimated Russia again. Please continue.


Same same
Russia underestimates Ukraine.



Paul2 said:


> Terrible loss. Soviet radar equipment takes years to train on.
> 
> Even sending ground crews as cannon fodder is a terrible trade


Putin is not amused. The war is not going too well. He just fires the top commander and replaces by an other hardcore responsible in Far East. Troops from Far East will go to Ukraine. Hopefully the chinese don’t take the chance to invade Russia at that weak flank.


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## RoadAmerica

DF41 said:


> *Being given 2 NEGATIVES proved the truth of John Mearshimmer!!
> John Mearshimmer findings agreed to almost universally other than by Whitehouse Nuland and NED and doggies in thrall to NED
> 
> That the war in Ukraine was a righteous war by Russia to denazified the Nazis and to drain the poison that the Whitehouse and NED and their minions so desperate to preserve in Ukriane Nazis.
> 
> Or am I punished for calling a brown banana a brown banana ?( thinking himself to be white inside but brown outside)
> 
> Or my declaration of casting the unwanted to where sun and moon not shine and cockroaches roam?
> 
> Or just some entities with power that show how they can abuse power to whims and fancy*
> 
> 
> 
> _Let us talk of the transgressions against Russia created by USA and NATO and the blatant killing of Russian speakers in Eastern part of Ukraine encouraged by USA and NATO that caused Russia to finally react after 8 over years of patience.
> 
> Why do you want to talk of the end part and not the way the war was caused by USA and NATO?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you must be kidding if you think you a brown banana with the rights of white British and the same rights as that of the white financiers.
> 
> *GROW UP!
> OR YOU END UP WHERE THE SUN AND MOON DO NOT SHINE AND COCKROACHES ROAM
> AS YOU OTHERWISE GOT NOTHING INTELLIGENT TO TELL ME OR ANYONE WITH BRAINS
> 
> YOU CAN TELL THE COCKROACHES THOUGH, AND THOSE ALREADY THERE.*_


Posting the same crap over and over 🥱


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## Viet

To hunt until the last nazi in Ukraine will Putin send fanatic young pioneers to the front as many reports suggest? Many as young as 17y.


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## HydraChess

ZeGerman said:


> I am sick about these racism claims thrown around by people who do not give a shit about people from another faith or country themselves….
> 
> Especially since the west poured billions and billions in nationbuilding and humanitarian relief for iraq and afghanistan. And even now takes in refugees from these nations. And even now has a lot of media that we need to help more. (Even more…)
> Funny considering we dont care for these “brownies”
> 
> Seriously…look into the mirror. The west is almost the only one giving something outside of cultural/religious block….


Oh?

So first blow up the countries and then show up with some puny relief?
First destroy cities and homes of people and then take some refugees?

What the actual ****? 

As far as looking into the mirror goes -- US and its allies need to do it since forever. 

Who committed genocide in Australia, Americas and almost wiped out native population?
Who displaced millions in form of slavery?
Who did imperialism? 
Where did two world wars start?

Funny part is that if this is caring, we would have preferred non-caring.

BTW even if I take your claim 


ZeGerman said:


> The west is almost the only one giving something outside of cultural/religious block….


 at face value; US and its allies are the only people who have been attacking and fanning wars all over the globe. 
Take a telly of number of countries in which CIA toppled governments, supported belligerent despots and supplied weapons and US and its allies will be on the top.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> The invasion of Afghanistan was legally a War of Self-Defense, since an ally of Afghanistan (Al-Qaeda) attacked the United States. just being an ally is not a valid reason for war.


"Legally Self Defence"??? 

You know even if I take this ridiculous claim at face value, US has been continuing military action in Afghanistan long after elimination of UBL. For 10 more years. 

There was nothing legal about it. It was warmongering plain and simple. Then US withdrew leaving same Taliban incharge who they were fighting for 20 years or so.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Al-Qaeda was formed by Usama bin Laden with foreign fighters in Afghanistan as a base,
> The US funded the Mujahedin, and Pakistan & ISI handled the actual contacts with the Mujahedin, and they mainly considered the foreigners to be a useless nuiscance.
> 
> As you do not understand the basics, you are now on ignore.


 So US supplied and funded UBL and his Al-Qaeda. For what? To defend USA?
No, to fight Russia -- US's ideological enemy.

And you brand me the one who does not understand the basic. 

Anyways, swedes and their country. Who cares!

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Russians have been constantly revising their objectives down but Russian bots like @Hassan Al-Somal will tell us "This was all planned and according to the mighty antichrist Russian plan". Russia's winning but is on the defensive in many parts of the country.
> 
> View attachment 851010



Russian forces are on a roll. No amount of false propaganda will change reality on the ground. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533018014442037248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533082755038330881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533039606211428352

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533096379182104576

Another Russian helicopter shot down

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## Viet

Russia parliament lifted the age for army recruits. Putin can draw 1.2 million men per year if declaring general mobilization.
Probably global warning, Covid not bad enough.









Russland - Hinweise auf verdeckte Mobilmachung


Da kein Ende des Krieges gegen die Ukraine in Sicht ist, stellt sich die Frage, wie Russlands Streitkräfte zu neuen Soldaten kommen. Es gibt Zeichen für verdeckte Rekrutierungen - und heimlichen Widerstand. Von Silvia Stöber.




www.tagesschau.de

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## Nuclear Clown

kingQamaR said:


> So we can expect another doubling of petrol prices come Christmas then. Lets really show Putin we mean business - by collapsing our economies and causing a famine The west set out to ruin the Russian economy with sanctions, instead, we have wrecked ours



EU barely doesn't imports food, we even had to restraint the CAP due to an overproduction in order to avoid prices collapses which would have led agricultors to bankruptcy!
France alone produces about 25% more wheat than Ukraine, it's just not exported, being fully absorbed by EU market.
Ukraine weights 6% of world's wheat EXPORTS, and Russia 16.5%. Ukraine's wheat mainly goes to the poorest countries on the planet as they have the cheapest prices, therefore, it's Putin de Rat who is deliberately engineering a famine to raise wheat prices on the export markets!!! The Ukrainian stockpile is too massive to be exported to be exported from anywhere else than Odesa's port, Russia BLOCKADES Odesa, case closed...

Be aware that we're re-equipping our 58 NPPs with Siemens 4th gen turbines NOW !!!! 
Near all our NPPs have 4x 3817MWth reactors => 5200 MWe
With the new turbines and their 60% efficiency, each NPP with the usual four P'4 reactors will produce 9160.8 MWe instead!!!!! 
The biggest NPP in the EU is in Ukraine and with the 3rd gen turbines, it's 6x 3200 MWth only produce 6720 MWe...
High time to say f*ck off to dumb ecologists!!! Fast breeder reactors burn nuclear wastes and... produce more nuclear fuel than they do burn !!!! Nuclear can be a renewable energy of it wasn't to the rabid fake ecolos who in fact are funded by the fossil energy lobby !!!

No need ruSSian gas any more, NUCLEAR ENERGY IS THE BEST and was ALREADY THE CHEAPEST, NOW IT BECOMES EVEN CHEAPER...
I'd love to run my car on antimatter : 10µg would be enough to move to planet Mars and back.
F*CK FOSSIL ENERGY, GO FISSILE INSTEAD !!!!


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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> A NATO source of course speaking of the 18-year-old Russian soldier who did not like fighting in Ukraine and the sections about Russian crimes including rapes but at least they are being forced to admit the Ukrainian Nazis doing war crimes to the extent it has affected even a NATO soldier.
> 
> @Vergennes @Raffie @Apollon @Wolfhunter
> 
> 
> 
> So USA government was very comfortable with the criminals called Taliban during their rule between 1996 and 2001, yes ? Same reason that NATO has brought back Taliban rule last year. Would NATO have left Afghanistan last year if a leftist movement like the Solidarity Party of Afghanistan had a chance for form governance ? The Taliban have been oppressing people for the past one year, especially the females, but NATO which invaded Libya and Syria on the pretext of the systems there "killing civilians including women and children" and initiated regime change operations are not talking about regime-changing Taliban now. Why ?
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the so-called Afghan Mujahideen were regressive, Wahabi and Tableeghi psychos from all over the world armed, financed and politically supported by NATO ( and unfortunately China ) and its ally Saudia and logistically supported by NATO-proxy Tableeghi dictator "Mard-e-Momin" of Pakistan. A few thousand of these criminals fought in Afghanistan against the progressive Communist governance system of Afghanistan and its backer, USSR. Using these criminals as proxies NATO wanted to regime-change the Communist system in Afghanistan and install a NATO-friendly mullah government. Capitalist-imperialist NATO wanted the end of another progressive leftist society, especially a Muslim-majority one. Osama bin Laden was trained in the mountains of Scotland by British commandos. Here are the fake Afghan mujahideen meeting the American president Reagan :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These were criminals whose latest version is the Taliban. Let us not give them respect by calling them mujahideen.



I have no problem with russians getting executed. As long they are in Ukraine they are a threat. Others may see it different but thats my opinion. As ling its a clean and quick shot.


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## HydraChess

gambit said:


> Technically, Little Boy and Fat Man were air bursts in the sense that they did not contact the ground


I am arguing they were air bursts in the sense that fireball of explosion did not touch the ground. Which surely it did not.

Your source does mention that the optimal height for that explosion was about 2400 ft above the ground to optimise 5 psi on ground range --for maximal destruction of soft structure like those in Hiroshima. The reason for sub-optimal air-burst was because the target committee under-estimated the yield. This means for the word go, they wanted to go for an air-burst. If you insist, I will call it a sub-optimal air-burst owing to their lack of understanding of yield of the weapon. But a air-burst none the less because fireball remained much above the ground. It certainly was not a ground burst.

My criteria of using fireball height and ground landing of the it is based on the initial point of this discussion with @jhungary : "Can Russia nuke Kiev while sparing Moscow --which relatively is nearby-- from the fall out?". I say yes, by choosing a low yield of weapon(s) (even sub kilotonne), going for the design that gives out minimal long lived fallout eg a boosted design where most fuel is burnt there by eleminating longer lived plutonium or uranium fuel and by selecting a burst height to ensure most fallout happens in a very small local area and does not reach moscow or any major Russia population centre.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533100589940453376


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## HydraChess

RoadAmerica said:


> 🤣 just nuke em, doesn’t sound very sane too me


Does it need to be sane?

Was any bombing of civilian centres ever sane?

When we are living in this insane insane world, why does any particular party need to act sane.

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> So we can expect another doubling of petrol prices come Christmas then. Lets really show Putin we mean business - by collapsing our economies and causing a famine The west set out to ruin the Russian economy with sanctions, instead, we have wrecked ours


Or you rather the alternative, do not care about any of that and let Russia blackmail the West via Oil and Gas and Wheat export? Why not dissolving EU and NATO and gave all the land to Russia while you are at it? I mean unless you really believe Russia will stop at Ukraine if we do nothing....They used it once, and they will use it again and again..........

The West need to wake up and smell the Coffee that you cannot have a single source for all you need, that's no matter how you slice it is dumb. In the US, we have a law for alternative (or akin to anti-trust law) that does not allow monopoly on any single market. I am sorry that EU only wake up to this after 30% oil and gas price hike, but having living in Ukraine and just get back from Ukraine, I am pretty sure you want that 30% hike and not the alternative....


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## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> I don't feel my reference is wrong, you think that. As I said, contact NPS if you think their reference is wrong.


Your reference, you cannot make sense out of it as to what does 550 ft there mean. You contact them. Not my job.

Heck it clearly says the height of detonation was 1968 ft above Hiroshima.

"550 ft" part has not been even mentioned as height. I think it is deviation from the target ie that bridge. But even that is non-material to the discussion which is about height of explosion above ground.


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## HAIDER

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533101270982004736


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## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> You can call me whatever you want, just that if you call me a Hypocrite, the only thing that show is that you don't know what is a Hypocrite.


Hypocrite: "a person who indulges in hypocrisy."
Hypocrisy: "the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform;"

When you call out me to be hypocrite in supporting Russia while condemning US and do not call out US and its allies and its media for the same, guess what it makes you?

Your bias towards US itself makes you a hypocrite here.

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## Apollon

SalarHaqq said:


>



Yawn russian Propaganda is always so pathetic and boring. 


Btw Pussolini is heavy on drugs and botox


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## nufix

Viet said:


> To hunt until the last nazi in Ukraine will Putin send fanatic young pioneers to the front as many reports suggest? Many as young as 17y.



This image is as old as 2016 and they are basically boy scouts. Not sure where in this picture suggest that they are being recruited to fight in Ukraine.



https://www.rusarmy.com/forum/threads/neneckij-avtonomnyj-okrug-primet-uchastie-v-obscherossijskom-dvizhenii-junarmija.13201/

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533104366319960064


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## Apollon

chinasun said:


> Napoleon and Hitler underestimated Russia and were glad to see that the West underestimated Russia again. Please continue.



Japan and Wilhelm II did not underestimate Russia and crushed it. See i neutralized your bullshit.

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## jhungary

HydraChess said:


> Your reference, you cannot make sense out of it as to what does 550 ft there mean. You contact them. Not my job.
> 
> Heck it clearly says the height of detonation was 1968 ft above Hiroshima.
> 
> "550 ft" part has not been even mentioned as height. I think it is deviation from the target ie that bridge. But even that is non-material to the discussion which is about height of explosion above ground.


550 ft *FROM *Aioi Bridge can mean all 6 direction, left, right, forward, backward, up and down.

As I said, using the mapping tool (Which don't lies) and punching in the hospital ground zero and the bridge, the distant between the bridge and the hospital is NOT 550 fts, so that taken out Left, Right, Forward, Backward only up and down left.

And Hiroshima is a city, not a point of reference. If I say I live in Sydney, that's where I live, not where my exact location, my exact location is Blacktown, 38 km from Sydney CBD. If it said 2000 ft above Sydney, that does not mean it is the same as 2000 ft above my house....

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## Nuclear Clown

SalarHaqq said:


>

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## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> 550 ft *FROM *Aioi Bridge can mean all 6 direction, left, right, forward, backward, up and down.


You need to read it in the context: it clearly says 1968 ft above hiroshima, 550 ft from the bridge. 

That being said, if it is ambiguous as you are suggesting: since it could be in any direction, thats the problem is that of the source. Since you brought the source to support your point, I guess, you should get a better source and replace this one.


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## kingQamaR

Seems an odd situation where Europe are threatening to punish Russia by banning Russian gas and at the same time Russia are threatening to punish Europe by refusing to supply it. 

LOL you couldn't make it up

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## jhungary

HydraChess said:


> Hypocrite: "a person who indulges in hypocrisy."
> Hypocrisy: "the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform;"
> 
> When you call out me to be hypocrite in supporting Russia while condemning US and do not call out US and its allies and its media for the same, guess what it makes you?
> 
> *Your bias towards US itself makes you a hypocrite here.*


I biased toward US make me biased, have I claim to have the moral standard that I do not conform when I already said I don't care about what Russian do??

I don't care what Russia do when I support the US, you care about what the US did when you support Russia. That make you hypocrite and I am biased.

Dude, study some English at least before you comment....... I mean, how hard is it for you to understand you can't support Russia and condemn US at the same time. That's what make you hypocrite, not because you support Russia...



HydraChess said:


> You need to read it in the context: it clearly says 1968 ft above hiroshima, 550 ft from the bridge.
> 
> That being said, if it is ambiguous as you are suggesting: since it could be in any direction, thats the problem is that of the source. Since you brought the source to support your point, I guess, you should get a better source and replace this one.


Again, just because it is 1968 feet above Hiroshima, that does not mean it is 1968 ft above the bridge. Again, using the same example I used. If it is dropped 1968 ft above Sydney, does that mean it is dropped 1968 ft above my house in Blacktown? Dude, the city is not flat, it is not universally the same height across the city. And then let alone the fact that the earth curved down 8 inches every single mile.

Again, I have no problem with the source, you have, if you want to challenge it, contact NPS.


----------



## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> I biased toward US make me biased, have I claim to have the moral standard that I do not conform when I already said I don't care about what Russian do??


Yes you have one. You call out those who support Russia while condemning US as hypocrite. You do not apply the same standard to all those who are condeming Russia but supporting US -- by your own admitted bias for USA. I rest my case!



kingQamaR said:


> Seems an odd situation where Europe are threatening to punish Russia by banning Russian gas and at the same time Russia are threatening to punish Europe by refusing to supply it.
> 
> LOL you couldn't make it up


Indeed!
Ha ha ha!

Come winter and they will be rushing for russian gas to keep their homes warm.



jhungary said:


> Again, just because it is 1968 feet above Hiroshima, that does not mean it is 1968 ft above the bridge. Again, using the same example I used. If it is dropped 1968 ft above Sydney, does that mean it is dropped 1968 ft above my house in Blacktown? Dude, the city is not flat, it is not universally the same height across the city. And then let alone the fact that the earth curved down 8 inches every single mile.


Dude, you have elevation map of the city that I gave. The elevation of the bridge, its surround area and including that Shima hospital is no more than 200 ft. Now if this contradicts with your source, clearly you need better source which clearly calls out what 550 ft is.

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## jhungary

HydraChess said:


> Yes you have one. You call out those who support Russia while condemning US as hypocrite. You do not apply the same standard to all those who are condeming Russia but supporting US -- by your own admitted bias for USA. I rest my case!
> 
> 
> Indeed!
> Ha ha ha!
> 
> Come winter and they will be rushing for russian gas to keep their homes warm.


SUPPORTING RUSSIA WHILE CONDEMNING US IS *HYPOCRICY*...........That is the entire god damn point here.

If I condemn Russia while supporting US, then yes, I am a Hypocrite myself, but again, WHERE HAD I CONDEMNED RUSSIA? Calling you because you are one is not being a hypocrite........

Resting you case is not just you saying it, you need to find evidence to support that, again, find me a post where I condemn what the Russian do (not just saying they are not justify or what, but condemning it) Then you can rest your case, otherwise it's BS because you have not met the Burden of Proof.


----------



## HydraChess

jhungary said:


> If I condemn Russia while supporting US, then yes, I am a Hypocrite myself, but again, WHERE HAD I CONDEMNED RUSSIA? Calling you because you are one is not being a hypocrite........


Your hypocrisy is this : Pointing out only those who support Russia while condemning USA but ignoring massive number of those who support USA while condemning Russia.

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## SalarHaqq

Apollon said:


> Yawn russian Propaganda is always so pathetic and boring.
> 
> 
> Btw Pussolini is heavy on drugs and botox



Superior by immeasurable magnitudes to the low grade, tasteless drivel produced by NATO regimes, their mouthpieces and cheerleaders. 

However, as far as Russian-made illustrations are concerned, the term "propaganda" hardly applies since these are in fact metaphoric yet faithful reflections of reality.

There are credible indications that Zelensky the imposter and harlequin is an addicted consumer of cocaine. As opposed to President Vladimirovich Putin, a former officer and athlete far removed from these things.

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## jhungary

HydraChess said:


> Dude, you have elevation map of the city that I gave. The elevation of the bridge, its surround area and including that Shima hospital is no more than 200 ft. Now if this contradicts with your source, clearly you need better source which clearly calls out what 550 ft is.


Are you for real? I have said it 3 times.

1968 ft ABOVE Hiroshima is* NOT THE SAME* as 1968 ft *ABOVE THE BRIDGE* and* NOT THE SAME *as 1968 ft* ABOVE THE HOSPITAL - THE AGREED GROUND ZERO.*

You have show nothing that said it was detonated 1968 ft above the ground zero, which is *NOT* Hiroshima, which is the hospital. The only reference came close is the NPS reference when it said 550 ft from the Bridge.



HydraChess said:


> Your hypocrisy is this : Pointing out only those who support Russia while condemning USA but ignoring massive number of those who support USA while condemning Russia.


That's not hypocrisy......That's stating the fact......

Dude, it's like if you wear a dress and walking down the street and I call you a cross dresser, does that call out make me a cross dresser too? Or the fact that I ignore other cross dresser walking down the street and only call you out make me a cross dresser too??


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## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> Or you rather the alternative, do not care about any of that and let Russia blackmail the West via Oil and Gas and Wheat export? Why not dissolving EU and NATO and gave all the land to Russia while you are at it? I mean unless you really believe Russia will stop at Ukraine if we do nothing....They used it once, and they will use it again and again..........
> 
> The West need to wake up and smell the Coffee that you cannot have a single source for all you need, that's no matter how you slice it is dumb. In the US, we have a law for alternative (or akin to anti-trust law) that does not allow monopoly on any single market. I am sorry that EU only wake up to this after 30% oil and gas price hike, but having living in Ukraine and just get back from Ukraine, I am pretty sure you want that 30% hike and not the alternative....



understanding on what happens when you cut off oil and gas without reliable low cost alternatives being ready to go! Millions of people in the U.K. do not have access to gas and use heating oil...from Russia and Norway. Expect mass poverty and hardship across Europe. The last time Germany felt real hardship....they started two world wars. 
UNFORTUNATELY, your new ally INDIA said that they'd buy as much cheap Russian Oil & Gas as they can get


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533106810294607872


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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> understanding on what happens when you cut off oil and gas without reliable low cost alternatives being ready to go! Millions of people in the U.K. do not have access to gas and use heating oil...from Russia and Norway. Expect mass poverty and hardship across Europe. The last time Germany felt real hardship....they started two world wars.
> UNFORTUNATELY, your new ally INDIA said that they'd buy as much cheap Russian Oil & Gas as they can get


I like how you sidestep my question.

My question is, do you want the alternative and do what Russia want just because they gave you low cost oil and gas?

Sure, let's not shut off Russia gas, and then what? Let Russia took Ukraine. What if Putin don't stop there? Then what will you do? Let them take the Baltic and Finland? Then what? Where does it ends?

You do know if you keep the current arrangement, then you are always going to be restricted by the "Cheap oil and gas" because Putin will threaten to cut you off if you don't do what he said. To keep the current situation is not only unfeasible, but borderline stupid, and I am sorry it come down to this before Europe realise it, that the shortsightness of Europe on putting Money before National Security is not a good idea and it's Europe own making, so the question is, as I asked before, do you want the alternative?? Or you want to quit now instead of in a more dire position 5 years or 10 years down the road??

Bear in mind Ukrainian is like Brothers to the Russian. where a lot of Ukrainian have relative in Russia and vice versa, and Putin would do this to its "brother", do you think he will go easy on the Brits or French??


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## PakFactor

jhungary said:


> I like how you sidestep my question.
> 
> My question is, do you want the alternative and do what Russia want just because they gave you low cost oil and gas?
> 
> Sure, let's not shut off Russia gas, and then what? Let Russia took Ukraine. What if Putin don't stop there? Then what will you do? Let them take the Baltic and Finland? Then what? Where does it ends?
> 
> You do know if you keep the current arrangement, then you are always going to be restricted by the "Cheap oil and gas" because Putin will threaten to cut you off if you don't do what he said. To keep the current situation is not only unfeasible, but borderline stupid, and I am sorry it come down to this before Europe realise it, that the shortsightness of Europe on putting Money before National Security is not a good idea and it's Europe own making, so the question is, as I asked before, do you want the alternative?? Or you want to quit now instead of in a more dire position 5 years or 10 years down the road??
> 
> Bear in mind Ukrainian is like Brothers to the Russian. where a lot of Ukrainian have relative in Russia and vice versa, and Putin would do this to its "brother", do you think he will go easy on the Brits or French??



Why should any of this concern Pakistanis what’s happening in Europe? It really doesn’t, rather a conflict there works to our benefit. Realistically, we never had any issues with USSR it was just bad foreign policy us putting all our eggs in Western basket and see how things turned out we had both hands tied behind our backs, a balanced approach is needed. It was a major-major strategic mistake having USSR killed in Afghanistan as it tilted total power to the West which is never a smart thing to do, we need to bring it back into balance and Russia under the feet of China is just one stepping stone in that direction.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533114073973411840

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## jhungary

PakFactor said:


> Question is why should any of this concern Pakistanis what’s happening in Europe? It really doesn’t rather a conflict there works in our benefit. Realistically, we never had any issues with USSR it was just bad foreign policy us putting all our eggs in Western basket and see how things turned out, a balanced approach is needed.


Then why do you reply to my post if this does not concern you Pakistani at all?? 

I don't think I have address my concern to Pakistani


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532999490596220928


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532753545031733254


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## jhungary

PakFactor said:


> Regarding the oil aspect and all


Russia is NOT the world largest oil producer in the world, US is.

We are talking about EU dependent on Russian oil and gas. What if US flood the world with cheap oil and gas and then Pakistani hook on that and become depending on it, would that be a problem for you? Because that is exactly what happened to EU with Russia gas. 

Again, my post is not about Pakistani, if you don't feel there is a problem with that, then well, you don't feel any problem with that. There are nothing I can say in this matter, as I said, this post is not directed at Pakistani.


----------



## Viet

nufix said:


> This image is as old as 2016 and they are basically boy scouts. Not sure where in this picture suggest that they are being recruited to fight in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rusarmy.com


The Junarmija or youth army or Putin’s Kinderarmee is one million strong members, from 8 to 18y. Indoctrinated and ready to die for fatherland or whereever it is. Apparently the Russians copy from Germany’s Nazi youth pioneers.









Putins Kinder-Armee „Junarmija“: Nachwuchs für Ukraine-Krieg


Die russische Jugend-Armee „Junarmija“ ist höchst umstritten. Eine finnische Militär-Expertin erklärt die Hintergründe – und warnt vor regimetreuen „Bürgersoldaten“.




www.fr.de


----------



## Paul2

jhungary said:


> It's not hard for US and EU to prop up Ukrainian economy, at 201 billions a year, that's actually less than how much money US spend for a year in Afghanistan or the COVID relief package in 2020.



Funnily enough, USA spent more money on killing Benny the Laden than on the whole WW2

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## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> I like how you sidestep my question.
> 
> My question is, do you want the alternative and do what Russia want just because they gave you low cost oil and gas?
> 
> Sure, let's not shut off Russia gas, and then what? Let Russia took Ukraine. What if Putin don't stop there? Then what will you do? Let them take the Baltic and Finland? Then what? Where does it ends?
> 
> You do know if you keep the current arrangement, then you are always going to be restricted by the "Cheap oil and gas" because Putin will threaten to cut you off if you don't do what he said. To keep the current situation is not only unfeasible, but borderline stupid, and I am sorry it come down to this before Europe realise it, that the shortsightness of Europe on putting Money before National Security is not a good idea and it's Europe own making, so the question is, as I asked before, do you want the alternative?? Or you want to quit now instead of in a more dire position 5 years or 10 years down the road??
> 
> Bear in mind Ukrainian is like Brothers to the Russian. where a lot of Ukrainian have relative in Russia and vice versa, and Putin would do this to its "brother", do you think he will go easy on the Brits or French??



Russia would quickly go broke if it carries out your threat . Gas would arrive quickly from other countries and nobody in their right mind would do business with Russia ever again. What Putin is doing will probably get him fired. Someone didn’t think this all the way through! yet Russia does not play this geopolitical games over gas deliveries, they never done that, not even in the midst of the Cold War ?


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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Funnily enough, USA spent more money on killing Benny the Laden than on the whole WW2


Think the inflation adjusted is not. But don't quote me on that.



kingQamaR said:


> Russia would quickly go broke if it carries out your threat . Gas would arrive quickly from other countries and nobody in their right mind would do business with Russia ever again. What Putin is doing will probably get him fired. Someone didn’t think this all the way through! yet Russia does not play this geopolitical games over gas deliveries, they never done that, not even in the midst of the Cold War ?


That's all fine and dandy if they didn't do that. But they are doing it now. In fact, Russia (or rather Putin) is banking of EU to back off because of the gas and oil card Russia hold.

But then, USSR at the height of cold war will not launch a hot war like this anyway to begin with, which more or less make your point they haven't done that during Cold War moot. USSR only ever launched one hot war during its 70 or so years existence, and that's war in Afghanistan. And that is the dying stage of Soviet Union.


----------



## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> Think the inflation adjusted is not. But don't quote me on that.
> 
> 
> That's all fine and dandy if they didn't do that. But they are doing it now. In fact, Russia (or rather Putin) is banking of EU to back off because of the gas and oil card Russia hold.
> 
> But then, USSR at the height of cold war will not launch a hot war like this anyway to begin with, which more or less make your point they haven't done that during Cold War moot. USSR only ever launched one hot war during its 70 or so years existence, and that's war in Afghanistan. And that is the dying stage of Soviet Union.



The big question is why have we resulted in the dependency on gas and oil now?! All the eggs are in one basket , I see your point on Russian oil should end, USA should be helping by turning up the output,


----------



## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> The big question is why have we resulted in the dependency on gas and oil now?! All the eggs are in one basket , I see your point on Russian oil should end, USA should be helping by turning up the output,


Well, US should help, but EU need to diversify their energy need, get the from US, Europe and Middle East. 

As I said before, there are law in the US preventing monopoly of any single market, EU probably have to have similar law, there are anti-trust law in EU but we can all agree that did not do anything..........


----------



## Apollon

SalarHaqq said:


> Superior by huge magnitudes to the cheap, tasteless drivel produced by NATO regimes, their mouthpieces and cheerleaders. However, as far as Russian-made illustrations are concerned, the term "propaganda" hardly applies since these are in fact metaphoric yet faithful reflections of reality.
> 
> There are credible indications that Zelensky the imposter and harlequin is an addicted consumer of cocaine. As opposed to President Vladimirovich Putin, a former officer and athlete far removed from these things.



Putins face is bloated and swollen. Dude is literally falling apart as we watch and under pain medication. Its fun to watch the cancer eating him up


----------



## gambit

Paul2 said:


> Funnily enough, USA spent more money on killing Benny the Laden than on the whole WW2


Then imagine if we are really pissed off...


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## Apollon

kingQamaR said:


> understanding on what happens when you cut off oil and gas without reliable low cost alternatives being ready to go! Millions of people in the U.K. do not have access to gas and use heating oil...from Russia and Norway. Expect mass poverty and hardship across Europe. The last time Germany felt real hardship....they started two world wars.
> UNFORTUNATELY, your new ally INDIA said that they'd buy as much cheap Russian Oil & Gas as they can get



I am European and i prefer high energy prices over russian tyranny. We have to kill them now or suffer later. Look what they do in Ukraine. You think they will be more mercyful in Greece, Germany or Italy?



jhungary said:


> Well, US should help, but EU need to diversify their energy need, get the from US, Europe and Middle East.
> 
> As I said before, there are law in the US preventing monopoly of any single market, EU probably have to have similar law, there are anti-trust law in EU but we can all agree that did not do anything..........



I agree and im glad this happens now. Europe finally wakes up from its lala utopia. Now it hurts but i think few years later would have been far worse


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533125756536094722
The Ukrainians continue to push the Russians back in Severodonetsk, and look to have control over 60-70% of the city.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533129326903939073


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## SalarHaqq

Apollon said:


>



What's even more amusing is to watch NATO regimes spread the same tired old propagandistic talking points against world leaders they are in conflict with, similar to a broken record. Equally entertaining it is to observe the ever dwindling number of radicals who will let themselves be misled by these fairy tales (in addition to those who will mechanically parrot said stories while knowing deep down how baseless they are)...

From President Assad "fleeing" to Russia about a hundred times during the NATO- and zionist-imposed war on Syria, according to supposedly "informed sources in Damascus" cited by this or that propaganda outlet. To Iran's Supreme Leader being "in critical condition" for around twenty years in a row. Frankly it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to see through this uncreative, repetitive gibberish.

Many people's faces (and their anatomy in general) tend to become more bloated beyond a certain age. Doesn't imply much onto itself, it could have hormonal, cardio-vascular and various other causes.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533128721875488776


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## Apollon

SalarHaqq said:


> What's even more amusing is to watch NATO regimes spread the same tired old propagandistic talking points about world leaders they are in conflict with, similar to a broken record, and observing the ever dwindling number of radicals who will let themselves be misled by these fairy tales (in addition to those who will mechanically parrot them while knowing deep down how baseless they are)...
> 
> From President Assad of Syria "fleeing" to Russia about a hundred times during the NATO- and zionist-orchestrated war on his country, as per supposedly "informed sources in Damascus" cited by this or that propaganda outlet. To Iran's Supreme Leader being "in critical condition" for around twenty years in a row. Frankly it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to see through this uncreative, repetitive gibberish.
> 
> Many people's faces (and bodies in general) tend to become more bloated after they reach a certain age. Doesn't imply much onto itself.



Its no propaganda. Its visible he is in pain. Whats better than seeing our enemy getting eaten by cancer? 

I love to see our enemies suffer. Could watch cooked off russian tanks evry day.


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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> I have no problem with russians getting executed. As long they are in Ukraine they are a threat. Others may see it different but thats my opinion. As ling its a clean and quick shot.



Do you think that Russian soldier's jaw was extracted by those doing clean and quick shots ?  And there was a vid posted here some days ago that was deleted by mods, showing a Russian soldier being held down on the ground in the darkness by a group Ukrainian Nazis and some more standing. The Russian was moaning with great pain and as he moaned more the standing ones bent to press him down more. Perhaps they were burning a swastika into him or taking out his heart or who knows.

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Do you think that Russian soldier's jaw was extracted by those doing clean and quick shots ?  And there was a vid posted here some days ago that was deleted by mods, showing a Russian soldier being held down on the ground in the darkness by a group Ukrainian Nazis and some more standing. The Russian was moaning with great pain and as he moaned more the standing ones bent to press him down more. Perhaps they were burning a swastika into him or taking out his heart or who knows.



Perfect. Make a video and send his mother.

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## F-22Raptor

Lots of reports coming in that the Russians are getting destroyed in Severodonetsk. They were lured into the city, the Ukrainians counterattacked and aided by precision artillery fire from the high ground at Lyschansk.


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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Perfect. Make a video and send his mother.



But you yourself said that Russians can be killed as long as its a clean and long shot. This was not clean at all.


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## Sharma Ji

Apollon said:


> Its no propaganda. Its visible he is in pain. Whats better than seeing our enemy getting eaten by cancer?
> 
> I love to see our enemies suffer. Could watch cooked off russian tanks evry day.


Ha, but it appears it is the Euros who are mostly in pain with how things have turned out. It'll take another couple decades of rebuilding and being a total resource drain on the EU/west to stabilize Ukraine from here on. 

Also, your only options for feeding your insatiable energy needs are the middle east or Russia/Ukraine.. or go full "green energy" and sissy battery operated vehicles

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> But you yourself said that Russians can be killed as long as its a clean and long shot. This was not clean at all.



I said i would do it clean and fast. I speak for myself. 🙂👍



Sharma Ji said:


> Ha, but it appears it is the Euros who are mostly in pain with how things have turned out. It'll take another couple decades of rebuilding and being a total resource drain on the EU/west to stabilize Ukraine from here on.
> 
> Also, your only options for feeding your insatiable energy needs are the middle east or Russia/Ukraine.. or go full "green energy" and sissy battery operated vehicles



Building up a country is always a huge economic boom. Experts estimate it will cost 400 billion. Wr got 360 billion from russia as frozen money. EU said we will use this money. So in other words we get a 360 billion economic boom transfered to european companies to help rebuild Ukraine.


----------



## SalarHaqq

Apollon said:


> Its no propaganda. Its visible he is in pain. Whats better than seeing our enemy getting eaten by cancer?
> 
> I love to see our enemies suffer. Could watch cooked off russian tanks evry day.



It's nothing but an unsubstantiated claim. And if the past record of similar narratives coming out of the west is an indication, then it's baseless, pityful propaganda and psy-ops.

Whether or not you like to indulge in deriving satisfaction from such fantasies, they will never be more than that, i.e. fantasies.

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> I said i would do it clean and fast. I speak for myself. 🙂👍



I can't say anymore to such hatred right now so will try tomorrow.


----------



## Apollon

SalarHaqq said:


> It's nothing but an unsubstantiated claim. And if the past record of similar narratives coming out of the west is an indication, then it's baseless, pityful propaganda and psy-ops.
> 
> Whether or not you like to indulge in deriving satisfaction from such fantasies, they will never be more than that, i.e. fantasies.



Not a Fantasy. I love it most when they cook of without explosion. So the crew has something from it.


----------



## Paul2

Sharma Ji said:


> Ha, but it appears it is the Euros who are mostly in pain with how things have turned out. It'll take another couple decades of rebuilding and being a total resource drain on the EU/west to stabilize Ukraine from here on.
> 
> Also, your only options for feeding your insatiable energy needs are the middle east or Russia/Ukraine.. or go full "green energy" and sissy battery operated vehicles



Black sea can provide many times the amount of gas Russia does


----------



## SalarHaqq

Apollon said:


> Not a Fantasy. I love it most when they cook of without explosion. So the crew has something from it.



A fantasy until proven, which isn't the case. Indeed western sources have a habit of concocting wild stories about world leaders who resist NATO and zionist bullying. Lying is part of western regimes' political culture, as happily hinted to by Michael Pompeo.

I don't know what explosions and crews have to do with the discussion topic at hand. You're all over the place, however these sorts of interjections tend to illustrate the fact that sadism too, is part and parcel of the political culture of western so-called "democracies".

Hence the relevance of the drawing I shared, where a typical "I"SIS executioner is shown next to a female symbolizing the Ukrainian regime. Both 'I"SIS and western regimes are essentially death cults dissimulating their true nature beneath a facade of lofty declared principles (Islam in one case, democracy and human rights in the other).


----------



## Gomig-21

Not sure if this has been posted already, but it's interesting the balls it takes to black market such a potent weapon.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532420906504622080

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## jamahir

@Paul2, what are you laughing at, you traveling psycho ?

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## Apollon

SalarHaqq said:


> A fantasy until proven, which it isn't. I don't know what explosions and crews have to do with the discussion topic at hand. You are confused.



Love it


----------



## Sharma Ji

Paul2 said:


> Black sea can provide many times the amount of gas Russia does


Can it ? .. but who has rights to explore that chance.. I doubt the Russians will be willing to ever relinquish control of Crimea. 

Who will challenge them militarily, Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey.. NATO ?


----------



## SalarHaqq

Apollon said:


> Love it



Kindly don't quote me if you're unable to discuss a topic without divagating, while pretending not to notice.

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## Apollon

SalarHaqq said:


> Are you having comprehension issues? Kindly don't quote me if you're unable to discuss a topic without divagating, while pretending not to notice.



I dont care what you say. Just enjoy cooked off russian tanks. Mhhh tanks


----------



## SalarHaqq

Apollon said:


> I dont care what you say. Just enjoy cooked off russian tanks. Mhhh tanks



Please take these demented fantasies elsewhere, I couldn't care less about them nor am I your psychiatrist. There's no point in quoting me. Of course you failed to substantiate your claim, that's all which matters.

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## jhungary

Gomig-21 said:


> Not sure if this has been posted already, but it's interesting the balls it takes to black market such a potent weapon.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532420906504622080


That's most likely a discard tube. Notice that the Command Launch unit was missing on the unit.

While I cannot say the "Missile" portion is missing as this is covered. But if the missile is present, then 30,000 seems like a very low price because the missile itself is $125,000

Anyway, without the CLU, you can't launch the missile, so most likely this is some momento someone is selling. Not really sure if that even classified as firearms or missile.







On the other hand, we don't know who is selling it or even how long has this been on sale, that could be some Russian selling captured tube (Assuming this is a live round, which I highly doubt, seeing CLU is missing and the price). But a functioning Javelin would most likely hit $500,000 + on black market. So I doubt that this is a genuine article.

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## F-22Raptor

Gomig-21 said:


> Not sure if this has been posted already, but it's interesting the balls it takes to black market such a potent weapon.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532420906504622080


 
Javelins are useless without their fire control units


----------



## Apollon

SalarHaqq said:


> Take your demented fantasies elsewhere, I couldn't care less about them nor am I your psychiatrist. Don't quote me. Of course you failed to substantiate your claim, that's all which matters.



You know pics from inside a cooked off russian tank? There were videos where they pulled the corpses out. Quite hard work because the hatch is so small and the corpses are stiff. One blocked and they pulled harder and said: this one is stubborn xD 


I Love ukrainian humor


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533112766139183105

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## SalarHaqq

Apollon said:


> You know pics from inside a cooked off russian tank? There were videos where they pulled the corpses out. Quite hard work because the hatch is so small and the corpses are stiff. One blocked and they pulled harder and said: this one is stubborn xD
> 
> 
> I Love ukrainian humor



Contrary to what you seem to believe the nonsense doesn't affect me in the least. By repeatedly addressing someone on something they don't care about however, you are portraying and/or exposing yourself as having issues. I'd counsel to take your tablets.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533087339748147200

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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533134233589256192

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533011913222807552

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> Javelins are useless without their fire control units


lol, 30,000 for a plastic tube essentially......

Maybe if the seller can proof that tube was used and destroyed some Russian armor, probably it can fetch 30,000 but that tube probably worth around 2-3,000 in private collector hand. Which make me think I should be an arms dealer...I have had in contact with a lot of those discarded Javelin and AT-4 tube during my time in the Military, and they worth shit in the Army...


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533079824922775553

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532971043421298688

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533149200917184512


----------



## Gomig-21

jhungary said:


> But a functioning Javelin would most likely hit $500,000 + on black market.



Everything you said makes complete sense, especially this part. $30K is pocket change in the weapon's black market.



jhungary said:


> So I doubt that this is a genuine article.



Certainly sketchy, for sure. Just goes to show you the level of possible propaganda and twisting of ground realities that this war has been mired with. 

While some stuff is credible, long gone are the days of somewhat constant reliable information with all these social media aps and video postings etc., where every Donkey, Tom and Harry can spout a bunch of "alternative" bullshit just to push a certain biased narrative.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532301933679099905
Putin about weapons shipped from the United States to Ukraine: "We break them like nuts"

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## jhungary

Gomig-21 said:


> Everything you said makes complete sense, especially this part. $30K is pocket change in the weapon's black market.
> 
> 
> 
> Certainly sketchy, for sure. Just goes to show you the level of possible propaganda and twisting of ground realities that this war has been mired with.
> 
> While some stuff is credible, long gone are the days of somewhat constant reliable information with all these social media aps and video postings etc., where every Donkey, Tom and Harry can spout a bunch of "alternative" bullshit just to push a certain biased narrative.


Well, buying stuff like this is very much like buying a car. You can never believe what you see on the surface. 

Not going to suggest I have done this before, I can neither conform or denied it. But unlike car, there aren't really a lot of people have seen a real Javelin before, let alone know how it work or how much does it worth. So you will get idiot that fall into these kind of scam. 

For example, someone brought this for $4000 in Australia through dark web. Thinking it was an actual Law and actual illegal.






Thing is..........

https://replicagunsandordinanceaustralia.com/replicagrenadelaunchers.html 


While you can immediately see that this M72 tube were made in Resin, if you have not handled one, you probably would think that was a genuine article. And seeing you think this is a real rocket launcher, hence illegal to own in Australia, chances are even if you found out you've been duped, you probably would keep your silence.

While if you know the stuff, it's easy to see 1+1 does not make 3. But the thing is, you will need to know that stuff first to see 1 + 1 is not 3. Again, let me stress this again, I can neither confirm or denied I have involved in illegal arms trade before

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533153920977092609

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## KendoKhan

lcloo said:


> You have been severely brain washed...


Ukraine will win, ***** PUTIN* up the Khyber pass with an Exocet missile!

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## Dalit

😂









Ukraine anger as Macron says 'Don't humiliate Russia'


The French leader wants to give Vladimir Putin an "exit ramp", but Ukraine rejects that stance.



www.bbc.com


----------



## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532301933679099905
> Putin about weapons shipped from the United States to Ukraine: "We break them like nuts"


People should care less of what Putin says, his brain is not working probably. he often goes insane.
For instance lately he says thanks God European companies leave Russia so Russian companies will thrive. As if he just waits for the moment. I am happy if those European companies head to Vietnam.


----------



## jhungary

Vladimir Putin made ‘historic’ error in Ukraine: France





> President Emmanuel Macron in an interview with French media repeated on Friday that Russia *should not be “humiliated* … so that the day the fighting stops we can pave a way out through diplomatic means”.



Him (Marcon) saying this mean Putin is currently being humiliated.

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## KendoKhan

jhungary said:


> Well, buying stuff like this is very much like buying a car. You can never believe what you see on the surface.
> 
> Not going to suggest I have done this before, I can neither conform or denied it. But unlike car, there aren't really a lot of people have seen a real Javelin before, let alone know how it work or how much does it worth. So you will get idiot that fall into these kind of scam.
> 
> For example, someone brought this for $4000 in Australia through dark web. Thinking it was an actual Law and actual illegal.
> 
> View attachment 851254
> 
> 
> Thing is..........
> 
> https://replicagunsandordinanceaustralia.com/replicagrenadelaunchers.html
> 
> 
> While you can immediately see that this M72 tube were made in Resin, if you have not handled one, you probably would think that was a genuine article. And seeing you think this is a real rocket launcher, hence illegal to own in Australia, chances are even if you found out you've been duped, you probably would keep your silence.
> 
> While if you know the stuff, it's easy to see 1+1 does not make 3. But the thing is, you will need to know that stuff first to see 1 + 1 is not 3. Again, let me stress this again, I can neither confirm or denied I have involved in illegal arms trade before


Hahahah, this is a classic case of Caveat Emptor.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533148067263823872

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## ZeGerman

HydraChess said:


> Oh?
> 
> So first blow up the countries and then show up with some puny relief?
> First destroy cities and homes of people and then take some refugees?
> 
> What the actual ****?
> 
> As far as looking into the mirror goes -- US and its allies need to do it since forever.
> 
> Who committed genocide in Australia, Americas and almost wiped out native population?
> Who displaced millions in form of slavery?
> Who did imperialism?
> Where did two world wars start?
> 
> Funny part is that if this is caring, we would have preferred non-caring.
> 
> BTW even if I take your claim
> 
> at face value; US and its allies are the only people who have been attacking and fanning wars all over the globe.
> Take a telly of number of countries in which CIA toppled governments, supported belligerent despots and supplied weapons and US and its allies





HydraChess said:


> Oh?
> 
> So first blow up the countries and then show up with some puny relief?
> First destroy cities and homes of people and then take some refugees?
> 
> What the actual ****?
> 
> As far as looking into the mirror goes -- US and its allies need to do it since forever.
> 
> Who committed genocide in Australia, Americas and almost wiped out native population?
> Who displaced millions in form of slavery?
> Who did imperialism?
> Where did two world wars start?
> 
> Funny part is that if this is caring, we would have preferred non-caring.
> 
> BTW even if I take your claim
> 
> at face value; US and its allies are the only people who have been attacking and fanning wars all over the globe.
> Take a telly of number of countries in which CIA toppled governments, supported belligerent despots and supplied weapons and US and its allies will be on the top.
> 
> 
> "Legally Self Defence"???
> 
> You know even if I take this ridiculous claim at face value, US has been continuing military action in Afghanistan long after elimination of UBL. For 10 more years.
> 
> There was nothing legal about it. It was warmongering plain and simple. Then US withdrew leaving same Taliban incharge who they were fighting for 20 years or so.
> 
> 
> So US supplied and funded UBL and his Al-Qaeda. For what? To defend USA?
> No, to fight Russia -- US's ideological enemy.
> 
> And you brand me the one who does not understand the basic.
> 
> Anyways, swedes and their country. Who cares!


Simplistic and onesided views. 

1. Russia acted just as much a “imperium” (if not more) then the USA
2. The damage to afghanistan was relatively light (Unlike the russian invasion there). With the billions spent trying to build up a functioning state we actually got living standards up, education up, medical access up etc. Funny for an “invader” who “doesnt care for brown people” 
It would have been alot easier to just appoint villages responsible to keep order, and if this failed just erase them. Rinse and repeat. Nobody could have stopped us. 
3. We take refugees from all over. Even wars from sunni-shiite, indian-pak. 
4. Muslims should not have too big mouth when pointing fingers since their history is knee deep in the blood of their victims. From just as big of a slave trade, to ottoman imperialism, to depopulating european coastlines due to slavery and piracy. They also simply do not care for those outside of their religion


----------



## ZeGerman

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533125756536094722
> The Ukrainians continue to push the Russians back in Severodonetsk, and look to have control over 60-70% of the city.


If true then this is a massive development. 

Russias attempted “cauldrons” have been diminishing in size for months. The advances stalling to almost a crawl. 

Again they failed to encircle severodonetsk, but after the artillery barrages a frontal assault seemed possible. 

That they are losing what little key attacking units/ability that they seem to have left will be a hard hit. They might culminate soon. 

I also see ukraine using more and more western artillery. I really hope that reserve army being trained up is not mostly propaganda so they actually have a chance to start to displace russia from its conquered territory (cherson especially seems vulnerable)


----------



## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Well, US should help, but EU need to diversify their energy need, get the from US, Europe and Middle East.
> 
> As I said before, there are law in the US preventing monopoly of any single market, EU probably have to have similar law, there are anti-trust law in EU but we can all agree that did not do anything..........



The talk is not about laws, but about thousands of compromised politicians, and lawmakers.

As I said before, China has a number of actual active CPC members working as congress staffers, and Russia beaten China many times over on political infiltration.

The reason US never been active on global oil markets is no other than a successful lobbying effort.

All democratic societies are magnitudes more vulnerable to infiltration than Russia, or China themselves.

If the small UAE is said to have "thousands" of US politicians effectively on payroll, imagine how many China, and Russia do.

What Ukraine shows, and what Western medias missed is just how profoundly you can infiltrate another country. Ukraine has arrested more than 4000 citizens for armed subversion, and the number of government employees fired/suspended/arrested informally/administratively, or just quietly shot is 10x that.

Literally, Russia had 2 full armies worth of directly recruited agents, this is not counting voluntary sympathisers/collaborationists.


----------



## F-22Raptor

ZeGerman said:


> If true then this is a massive development.
> 
> Russias attempted “cauldrons” have been diminishing in size for months. The advances stalling to almost a crawl.
> 
> Again they failed to encircle severodonetsk, but after the artillery barrages a frontal assault seemed possible.
> 
> That they are losing what little key attacking units/ability that they seem to have left will be a hard hit. They might culminate soon.
> 
> I also see ukraine using more and more western artillery. I really hope that reserve army being trained up is not mostly propaganda so they actually have a chance to start to displace russia from its conquered territory (cherson especially seems vulnerable)



Russia had to send in reinforcements on its flanks in Severodonetsk. It’s a real possibility that Russian forces have culminated there.


----------



## Paul2

Viet said:


> People should care less of what Putin says, his brain is not working probably. he often goes insane.
> For instance lately he says thanks God European companies leave Russia so Russian companies will thrive. As if he just waits for the moment. I am happy if those European companies head to Vietnam.



I don't think he is much different than what he was 10 years ago. If you really listen to say Kim Jongun, he is faaar from being crazy, or really idiotic.

It just now feels he is insane after people stopped treating him seriously, and people in the West listen more to what he says while being on defensive.

If Kim was invited to Davos, or G8, he would've too produced some quasi-smart speeches written by speechwriters.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533142770944188417


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533096379182104576
> 
> Another Russian helicopter shot down






No proof presented that the plane is Russian or it was even shot down in Ukraine recently. It seems to me it is part of the false propaganda that some are waging in the Western media in order to hide the persistent Russian victories from the Western audience. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533123883460460544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533116958404648961

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533093686459916289

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533079074888986624


F-22Raptor said:


> Russia had to send in reinforcements on its flanks in Severodonetsk. It’s a real possibility that Russian forces have culminated there.




People are cheering and are happy to meet with the Chechen Alhmat liberators, and you want us to believe your claims that Russians are in trouble in Severodonetsk? It seems to me you live in a parallel universe. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533079074888986624

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## Vergennes

Igor Girkin has confirmed the Ukrainian counterattack in Severodonestk and that there was heavy losses among Russian troops and especially among Kadyrov's tiktok warriors. Russia's pushing all their reserves to Severodonestk.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533183635074998273


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> No proof presented that the plane is Russian or it was even shot down in Ukraine recently. It seems to me it is part of the false propaganda that some are waging in the Western media in order to hide the persistent Russian victories from the Western audience.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533123883460460544
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533116958404648961
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533093686459916289
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533079074888986624
> 
> 
> 
> People are cheering and are happy to meet with the Chechen Alhmat liberators, and you want us to believe your claims that Russians are in trouble in Severodonetsk? It seems to me you live in a parallel universe. 👇
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533079074888986624 👇 👇 👇




50-60% of Severodonetsk is under Ukraine control. 

Russia had to send in full reinforcements today. Culmination is near

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533129431446847488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533170479527256072

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## Vergennes

⚡️The Ukrainian military now counterattacks towards Izyum, - the adviser to the head of the Ministry of Internal Affairs Victor Andrusiv


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533178441419341824


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Igor Girkin has confirmed the Ukrainian counterattack in Severodonestk and that there was heavy losses among Russian troops and especially among Kadyrov's tiktok warriors. Russia's pushing all their reserves to Severodonestk.




Making up false "victories" won't make a difference on the ground. People are cheering the Russian and the Chechen Akhmat liberators.

"Tiktok warriors"? They're kicking the butt of the Azov and the rest of the Ukrops. The Chechen Akhmad warriors are battle-hardened experts in urban fighting. Now instead of hiding behind the Igor Girkin wanker, get used to the fact that the Ukrops are getting owned in Severodonestk. 👇👇













__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533079074888986624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532802072101408772

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533188236960583681

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533129431446847488
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533170479527256072





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533181320536412160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533182502319312898

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Making up false "victories" won't make a difference on the ground. People are cheering the Russian and the Chechen Akhmat liberators.
> 
> "Tiktok warriors"? They're kicking the butt of the Azov and the rest of the Ukrops. The Chechen Akhwat are battle-hardened experts in urban fighting. Now instead of hiding behind the Igor Girkin wanker who makes a living in spreading fake news, get used to the fact that the Ukrops are getting owned in Severodonestk. 👇👇
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533079074888986624



Yeah more like what's left of Severodonestk inhabitants. Few thousands if not hundreds left of more than 100.000k inhabitants. Seems like more than 100.000K inhabitants didn't want to enjoy the "peace" Russia and Tiktok warriors is bringing to them.

BTW this is funny you are cheering Kadyrov and his men who sold their souls and @ss to Putin. Real chechens are turning into their graves knowing what Kadyrov and his puppets are doing considering the suffering Russia has brought to the Chechen people.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Yeah more like what's left of Severodonestk inhabitants. Few thousands if not hundreds left of more than 100.000k inhabitants. Seems like more than 100.000K inhabitants didn't want to enjoy the "peace" Russia and Tiktok warriors is bringing to them.
> 
> BTW this is funny you are cheering Kadyrov and his men who sold their souls and @ss to Putin. Real chechens are turning into their graves knowing what Kadyrov and his puppets are doing considering the suffering Russia has brought to the Chechen people.



People can't live the past; they want to live the present and look forward to the future. Atrocities happened throughout the world, but what matters is people move on and don't let the past get hold of them. 

Now, how about this? 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532802047401201664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533140463275884544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533133355528732674

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## Hassan Al-Somal

*Donbass Devushka, [6/4/2022 4:00 PM]
[Forwarded from MoD Russia]
🗓 Top News Today*

❗️ During the withdrawal of the units of 79th Air Assault Brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces from Svyatogorsk, Donetsk People's Republic, the Ukrainian nationalists set fire to All Saints' of the Russian Land wooden skete the Svyatogorsk Lavra (https://****/mod_russia_en/2029).

💥* High-precision air-based missiles (https://****/mod_russia_en/2024) have hit an AFU artillery training centre near Stetskovka, Sumy Region. The foreign trainers who had arrived in the centre held practical exercises for Ukrainian servicemen related to using and firing control of M777 155-mm howitzers. In addition, a missile attack has resulted in destroying a permanent base of foreign mercenaries near Dachnoye, Odessa Region.*

💥 Missile troops and artillery have hit 33 command posts, 131 firing positions of AFU artillery units, as well as 542 manpower and military equipment concentration areas.

⚠️ *Ukrainian Armed Force' units are retreating towards Lisichansk after suffering critical losses (up to 90% in various units) during the combats for Severodonetsk. The authorities in Kiev have ordered the combined tactical group to plant saltpetre and nitric acid tanks of a volume above 100 tonnes at Azot entity located in Severodonetsk. *

⚠️ Russian Federation's Joint Coordination Headquarters for Humanitarian Response continues to carefully record the facts of the inhumane treatment of civilians and use of residential buildings, schools, kindergartens and other social infrastructure facilities for military purposes by Ukrainian armed groups.

📹 The Defence Ministry continues to publish footage of combat work by units during the special military operation: combat operation of Palantine electronic warfare system, engineering units in Kharkov Region, Ka-52 attack helicopter crews destroying strongholds of the Ukrainian armed forces.

🚛 More than 624 tonnes of essential goods and food have been handed over to the population of the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics and Kharkiv and Zaporizhzhya regions in 24 hours. Over 20,000 people have been evacuated to Russia (https://telegra.ph/Statement-of-the...n-for-Humanitarian-Response-June-4-2022-06-04) from dangerous areas of Ukraine and the Donetsk and Luhansk people's republics.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine
@mod_russia_en

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533175477174562816

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## MeFishToo

Would be embarrasing to admit the chechen super soldiers didnt take Severodonetsk atleast a week ago, wouldnt Hassan Al-Somal?
Maybe its time to find yourself some new sources, insted of parroting unreliable russian disinformation driven on twitter.

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533129431446847488
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533170479527256072



Canadian volunteers write in their Telegram groups that Russian forces in Severodonetsk are the same units who tormented Marioupol.

Ukrainians decided to exert their revenge at any cost when they got that intel. Eventually they got a decent momentum, and GHQ decided to give them a try.

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## Iron Shrappenel

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532301933679099905
> Putin about weapons shipped from the United States to Ukraine: "We break them like nuts"


Man I'm conflicted about this one... In todays world of warfare, it's no more about courage but more about cunning....

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533132823875538946

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533114746169344000

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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> Canadian volunteers write in their Telegram groups that Russian forces in Severodonetsk are the same units who tormented Marioupol.
> 
> Ukrainians decided to exert their revenge at any cost when they got that intel. Eventually they got a decent momentum, and GHQ decided to give them a try.



Russia is taking heavy losses there. The Ukrainians surprised them, and are raining precision artillery fire from Lyschansk.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532301933679099905
> Putin about weapons shipped from the United States to Ukraine: "We break them like nuts"




They’ve not broken anything. They have no ability to hit moving targets, and their recon capability blows. It’s takes them up to a week to conduct battle damage assessments. 

They have nowhere near the recon and situational awareness capabilities the US possess.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533213850090319872

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533221534571061248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533217578411237376

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## Nuclear Clown

DF41 said:


> View attachment 851050








_Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine_​June 4th 2022 : 4238, of which: destroyed: 2475, damaged: 73, abandoned: 318, captured: 1371.
These are only the OSINT visually confirmed losses that can be seen in Ukraine-controlled territory after having already kicked the Orcs out from 40% of what they invaded after having hammered "NO WE WON'T INVADE, WE'RE JUST DOING A DRILL".
To be frank? According to the Hague Convention, massing troops at a border is a casus belli. Had I been Ukraine's prez, I'd have attacked first, just like Israel did in 1967 !!! 
*How it's going for the Russian?*
*Ukraine just ordered 200,000 trashbags from Lidl *: the 30,000 Aldi ones had issues with cracks when you opened them, so some Russians returned to babushka ended with missing parts! 














Spetsnaz from Siberia: Bye bye to 7 more Lidl trashbags... :




4-5-22 Makiivka, Russian oil depot :




28-5-22 Su-35s shot down by MiG-29, Kherson: UkrAF MiG-29 and Su-27 have been upgraded with western combat system, the brand new Su-35 can't cope with western-upgraded Soviet aircraft🇷🇺💩🤡 : _Fox-2.... Splash !!!_




When the flagship of a navy fleet is sunk, the enemy has just proven that your navy is SHIT... Ukraine has proven what Russian navy really is : floating junk! And published the coolest postal stamp in history!!!




attack helicopter wreck... with looted washing machine found in the debris !








*Russia has shown its true face to the world: *
*WAR CRIMES 
DELIBERATE MURDER OF CIVILIAN
RAPES (even of babies and elders)
ATTACKS ON HOSPITALS AND SCHOOLS
GENERALISED LOOTING*
*GENOCIDE
BARBARIANISM



*​ Things will never be the same as they were : even North Korea is more respected.
Russia blackmailing 3rd world countries as a bargain chip for having the sanctions on its monstrosity lifted make everybody puke...
Nobody is surprised by e.g. the CCP backing Putin's horde : they also baked the Khmer Rouge who murdered the 3rd of Cambodia's population, and, according to Deng Ziao Ping, their Mao Zedong engineered the death of more than 100 millions of Chinese, mainly through famines...
Hopefully, instead of de-nuclearizing like Ukraine did in 1994, Taiwan won't have the same fate: the invasion of a massive nuclear power without being a nuclear state : the sons of Mao, if they try to invade, will be burnt by nuclear fire : TW is no more "just" nuclear-threshold. Same for S-Korea and Japan...

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533214532570599425

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533213592023072770

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533210763577507851

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533209806844182528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533210393681793027

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533206242138767361

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533205412203438081

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533174245991358464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533205274688880651

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533170091801591810

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533169800209387520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533169813551562756

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533169637369819136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533169646068703234

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533218076522688514

Russia has lost significant ground in Severodonetsk


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533167298634194945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532693537665470464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533167191012540416

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## Wergeland

Raffie said:


> View attachment 851290
> 
> _Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine_​June 4th 2022 : 4238, of which: destroyed: 2475, damaged: 73, abandoned: 318, captured: 1371.
> These are only the OSINT visually confirmed losses that can be seen in Ukraine-controlled territory after having already kicked the Orcs out from 40% of what they invaded after having hammered "NO WE WON'T INVADE, WE'RE JUST DOING A DRILL".
> To be frank? According to the Hague Convention, massing troops at a border is a casus belli. Had I been Ukraine's prez, I'd have attacked first, just like Israel did in 1967 !!!
> *How it's going for the Russian?*
> *Ukraine just ordered 200,000 trashbags from Lidl *: the 30,000 Aldi ones had issues with cracks when you opened them, so some Russians returned to babushka ended with missing parts!
> 
> View attachment 851288
> 
> 
> View attachment 851287
> 
> View attachment 851291
> 
> Spetsnaz from Siberia: Bye bye to 7 more Lidl trashbags... :
> View attachment 851292
> 
> 4-5-22 Makiivka, Russian oil depot :
> View attachment 851295
> 
> 28-5-22 Su-35s shot down by MiG-29, Kherson: UkrAF MiG-29 and Su-27 have been upgraded with western combat system, the brand new Su-35 can't cope with western-upgraded Soviet aircraft🇷🇺💩🤡 : _Fox-2.... Splash !!!_
> View attachment 851313
> 
> When the flagship of a navy fleet is sunk, the enemy has just proven that your navy is SHIT... Ukraine has proven what Russian navy really is : floating junk! And published the coolest postal stamp in history!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> attack helicopter wreck... with looted washing machine found in the debris !
> View attachment 851328
> 
> View attachment 851356
> 
> *Russia has shown its true face to the world: *
> *WAR CRIMES
> DELIBERATE MURDER OF CIVILIAN
> RAPES (even of babies and elders)
> ATTACKS ON HOSPITALS AND SCHOOLS
> GENERALISED LOOTING*
> *GENOCIDE
> BARBARIANISM
> View attachment 851353
> *​Things will never be the same as they were : even North Korea is more respected.
> Russia blackmailing 3rd world countries as a bargain chip for having the sanctions on its monstrosity lifted make everybody puke...
> Nobody is surprised by e.g. the CCP backing Putin's horde : they also baked the Khmer Rouge who murdered the 3rd of Cambodia's population, and, according to Deng Ziao Ping, their Mao Zedong engineered the death of more than 100 millions of Chinese, mainly through famines...
> Hopefully, instead of de-nuclearizing like Ukraine did in 1994, Taiwan won't have the same fate: the invasion of a massive nuclear power without being a nuclear state : the sons of Mao, if they try to invade, will be burnt by nuclear fire : TW is no more "just" nuclear-threshold. Same for S-Korea and Japan...



please dont post pictures of dead soldiers without a disclaimer

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533167303537336325

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532945530153746432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533161233448329216

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533066011209080835

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533082755038330881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533167915293364226

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533101433628856321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533100160196165637

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533170209909051393

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## Nuclear Clown

chinasun said:


> Napoleon and Hitler underestimated Russia and were glad to see that the West underestimated Russia again. Please continue.


In fact, there is no underestimation of Russia and nobody is trying to invade it : RUSSIA IS THE INVADER !!! 
It's Russia that underestimated Ukraine...




When it comes to Russia bragging about its fight against NATO, chess master Garry Kasparov, one of the most clever Russians on the planet nailed it about 2 months ago : 









In fact, we're just witnessing that we ALL overestimated the Russian military : we're in the 102nd day of their 2-days war on Ukraine. It's probable that the Ukrainians themselves have a hard time believing at which point the Russian military is SHIT.




Usually countries live by 3 phases : Barbarianism, civilisation then decadence... 
We all thought Russia finally reached civilisation, again, we overestimated Russia, the truth is...








Napoleon didn't "chose" to fight Russia ! ALL MONARCHIES tried to crush the French republic, Napo managed to hijack the power to become emperor, but monarchies didn't stopped, he had to fight Russia just like the others !!! I don't think Napo EVER underestimated any enemy, even now, he's seen as the best general in all human history, even over Caesar, but when you have everybody going after you, well, there were simply no technical breakthrough to be used as force-multipliers for him...
BTW, Napoleon's demise wasn't even Russia, it was Waterloo's battle in Belgium!!! And even tho, his army had a positive kill ratio!!!

BTW, without USA's Lend-Lease act








Lend-Lease - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




Where USA brought the Soviet Union the equivalent of today's $160-165 billions in gear, this is about the flyaway cost of 1080 Rafale jet fighters each loaded with 39 Meteor BVRAAM and 9 MICA-NG... Enough to beat the combined air forces of USA, China, Russia, India, Pakistan, Israel, Turkey, Saudi-Arabia and UAE, maybe more (with 50k+ of such AAMs you may probably shoot down the full world's inventory of jet fighters!), *in a single mission*... 
The UK received the equivalent of today's $450bn in gear...
Without the Lend-Lease Act, the Soviet Union would had been crushed, period !!!

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533245865535623168

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## F-22Raptor

Reports coming in that Russian forces have been routed in Severodonetsk

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## _Nabil_

Raffie said:


> View attachment 851290
> 
> _Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine_​June 4th 2022 : 4238, of which: destroyed: 2475, damaged: 73, abandoned: 318, captured: 1371.
> These are only the OSINT visually confirmed losses that can be seen in Ukraine-controlled territory after having already kicked the Orcs out from 40% of what they invaded after having hammered "NO WE WON'T INVADE, WE'RE JUST DOING A DRILL".
> To be frank? According to the Hague Convention, massing troops at a border is a casus belli. Had I been Ukraine's prez, I'd have attacked first, just like Israel did in 1967 !!!
> *How it's going for the Russian?*
> *Ukraine just ordered 200,000 trashbags from Lidl *: the 30,000 Aldi ones had issues with cracks when you opened them, so some Russians returned to babushka ended with missing parts!
> 
> View attachment 851288
> 
> 
> View attachment 851287
> 
> View attachment 851291
> 
> Spetsnaz from Siberia: Bye bye to 7 more Lidl trashbags... :
> View attachment 851292
> 
> 4-5-22 Makiivka, Russian oil depot :
> View attachment 851295
> 
> 28-5-22 Su-35s shot down by MiG-29, Kherson: UkrAF MiG-29 and Su-27 have been upgraded with western combat system, the brand new Su-35 can't cope with western-upgraded Soviet aircraft🇷🇺💩🤡 : _Fox-2.... Splash !!!_
> View attachment 851313
> 
> When the flagship of a navy fleet is sunk, the enemy has just proven that your navy is SHIT... Ukraine has proven what Russian navy really is : floating junk! And published the coolest postal stamp in history!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> attack helicopter wreck... with looted washing machine found in the debris !
> View attachment 851328
> 
> View attachment 851356
> 
> *Russia has shown its true face to the world: *
> *WAR CRIMES
> DELIBERATE MURDER OF CIVILIAN
> RAPES (even of babies and elders)
> ATTACKS ON HOSPITALS AND SCHOOLS
> GENERALISED LOOTING*
> *GENOCIDE
> BARBARIANISM
> View attachment 851353
> *​Things will never be the same as they were : even North Korea is more respected.
> Russia blackmailing 3rd world countries as a bargain chip for having the sanctions on its monstrosity lifted make everybody puke...
> Nobody is surprised by e.g. the CCP backing Putin's horde : they also baked the Khmer Rouge who murdered the 3rd of Cambodia's population, and, according to Deng Ziao Ping, their Mao Zedong engineered the death of more than 100 millions of Chinese, mainly through famines...
> Hopefully, instead of de-nuclearizing like Ukraine did in 1994, Taiwan won't have the same fate: the invasion of a massive nuclear power without being a nuclear state : the sons of Mao, if they try to invade, will be burnt by nuclear fire : TW is no more "just" nuclear-threshold. Same for S-Korea and Japan...

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> Reports coming in that Russian forces have been routed in Severodonetsk


From what I am hearing, Russian in lull of fighting. 

Maybe they retreated or maybe they are regrouping. I am more inclined to believe this is latter but if this is the former, then that's surprise me and most analyst watching the battle. Ukraine have send a large portion of men across the river, from all account, this is supposed to be a counter attack to slow the Russian advance so they can have time move more heavy equipment into the area to defending the other side of river bank.

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## WotTen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533100160196165637



Translation: NATO is losing the propaganda war in the rest of the world where media censorship has not been imposed. We need to work on more propaganda. NATO consumers will continue to be brainwashed to accept economic hardships while the military contractors swim in money.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533190704452747269

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533177928401530881
Putin confirms that Russian forces will destroy any weapons Washington sends to Ukraine
12:32 PM Jun 4, 2022
@khalediskef


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533012425615757312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533082726777114624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532668680189911040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533136940719120387


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533193361858895873

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533218076522688514

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533199480534745090

Severodonetsk. . . Remember this name well, it may be another Mariupol, a very devastating city war

The Ukrainians and the Russians almost share the city, and it seems that the Ukrainians have decided to hold out and counterattack, was it a Ukrainian trap or a dead gurgling!

The grinding battles are in full swing, the Russians are attacking with Wagner, Chechens.. and the Ukrainians have brought in the Foreign Legion in addition to their forces.

According to the picture, the battles are in yellow, meaning in the center and west of the city, with the Ukrainian advance from the east. It is said that the Russians suffered heavy defeats in the west (the industrial city). . We are waiting for the next days..


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## Wood




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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533242059066421248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533242049058807810


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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 4​Jun 4, 2022 - Press ISW





*Kateryna Stepanenko, Mason Clark, and George Barros
June 4, 6:00 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Ukrainian forces are successfully slowing down Russian operations to encircle Ukrainian positions in Luhansk Oblast as well as Russian frontal assaults in Severodonetsk through prudent and effective local counterattacks in Severodonetsk and their defense of the western Siverskyi Donets riverbank. *Ukrainian officials reported on June 3 that Ukrainian defenders pushed back against Russian advances in Severodonetsk and are actively hindering Russian advances on Lysychansk from the southwest.[1] Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai disagreed with the UK Defense Ministry forecast on June 3 that Russian forces will seize the remaining 10% of the oblast in the next two weeks, claiming that Ukrainian forces have enough reinforcements and equipment to conduct further counterattacks and defend their positions.[2] Haidai noted that Russian forces wrongfully believe in their own successes, enabling Ukrainian defenders to inflict high losses against unsuspecting Chechen units. Pro-Russian milblogger Voenkor Kotyenok Z claimed that Russian forces are unlikely to break through Ukrainian defenses in Lysychansk from Severodonetsk (through continued frontal assaults and an opposed crossing of the Siverskyi Donetsk River) and will likely need to complete the drive from Popasna if they hope to capture Lysychansk.[3] Voenkor Kotyenok Z claimed that Ukrainian forces could prevent Russian river crossings from Severodonetsk and highlighted that Russian forces have not yet secured access to two key highways to Lysychansk.
*The Ukrainian government and military are furthermore discussing the battle of Severodonetsk in increasingly confident terms and are likely successfully blunting the Russian military’s major commitment of reserves to the grinding battle for the city. *While Russian forces may still be able to capture Severodonetsk and Lysychansk and Ukrainian forces are likely more degraded than Haidai’s statements imply, Ukrainian defenses remain strong in this pivotal theater. The Russian military has concentrated all of its available resources on this single battle to make only modest gains. The Ukrainian military contrarily retains the flexibility and confidence to not only conduct localized counterattacks elsewhere in Ukraine (such as north of Kherson) but conduct effective counterattacks into the teeth of Russian assaults in Severodonetsk that reportedly retook 20% of the city in the last 24 hours. The Ukrainian government’s confidence in directly stating its forces can hold Severodonetsk for more than two weeks and willingness to conduct local counterattacks, rather than strictly remaining on the defensive, is a marked shift from Ukrainian statements as recently as May 28 that Ukrainian forces might withdraw from Severodonetsk to avoid encirclement.[4]
*Kremlin Spokesperson Dmitry Peskov reiterated on June 3 that Russia will continue its “special military operation” in Ukraine until Russia achieves all of its objectives.[5]* Peskov noted that Russia has already “liberated” many settlements since the start of the operation. Kremlin officials have begun steadily returning to their original claims about the successes of the Russian invasion of Ukraine in contrast to previous statements in late May explaining the slow pace of the war.[6] Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu also claimed on June 3 that Russian forces are adopting new unspecified tasks to accelerate the progress of the war.[7] The Kremlin is likely setting conditions to announce some sort of victory in eastern Ukraine while preparing for a protracted war. The Kremlin has not abandoned its maximalist political goals for Ukraine even though it has been forced to revise downward its immediate military objectives.
*Key Takeaways*

*Ukrainian forces conducted successful local counterattacks in Severodonetsk and Russian progress in direct assaults on the city and wider operations to encircle it remain slow. Ukrainian defenses in eastern Ukraine remain effective.*
*Russian forces launched a series of unsuccessful offensive operations southwest of Izyum and in the Lyman area.*
*Russian forces continued to defend previously occupied positions around Kharkiv City and launched missile and artillery strikes against Ukrainian defenders.*
*Russian forces did not attempt to launch assaults on settlements in Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblast but continued to fire at Ukrainian positions throughout southern Ukraine.*
*The Kremlin faces rising partisan activity in southern Ukraine despite Russian efforts to restrict movement and telecommunications access.*
*Ukrainian officials are continuing negotiations for a prisoner exchange of the captured Mariupol defenders.*

*

*
*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.
ISW has updated its assessment of the four primary efforts Russian forces are engaged in at this time. We have stopped coverage of Mariupol as a separate effort since the city’s fall. We had added a new section on activities in Russian-occupied areas:*

Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate main effort- Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
Supporting effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting effort 2—Southern axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces carried out limited assault operations southeast of Izyum and near Barvinokove (southwest of Izyum) but did not make any territorial gains on June 4. Kharkiv Oblast Administration Head Oleg Synegubov reported that Russian forces unsuccessfully attempted to seize Virnopillya, approximately 20km southwest of Izyum.[8] Russian forces continued to launch unsuccessful assaults on Bohorodychne in a likely attempt to link up with units attempting to seize Sviatohirsk from the east—two settlements approximately 25km southeast of Izyum.[9] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces continued to shell Sviatohirsk and its surroundings.[10] Ukrainian officials reported that Russian artillery fire started a fire that destroyed the Sviatohirsk Lavra (monastery) of the Moscow Patriarchate, but ISW cannot independently verify this claim.[11] The Russian Defense Ministry blamed the fire on Ukrainian forces and claimed that Russian forces did not launch assaults on Sviatohirsk.[12] Russian Telegram channels claimed that Russian forces seized Sosnove just north of Sviatohirsk and Brusivka, approximately 9km southwest of Lyman.[13] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are still attempting to secure the eastern bank of the Siverskyi Donets River in Staryi Karavan, approximately 1km northeast of Brusivka.[14]



Ukrainian and Russian sources confirmed that Ukrainian forces conducted a successful counterattack in Severodonetsk on June 3. Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai reported that Ukrainian forces recaptured 20% of Severodonetsk from Russian forces and inflicted significant casualties against Chechen units.[15] Some Russian milbloggers reported that Chechen units likely thought that they had successfully secured Severodonetsk and were unprepared for the counterattack.[16] The Russian Defense Ministry did not comment on the counterattack and falsely claimed that Ukrainian units are retreating to Lysychansk due to high losses of up to 90% of personnel.[17] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces continued street fights in Severodonetsk and reinforced their units with reserves mobilized from the Luhansk People’s Republic’s (LNR) 2nd Army Corps on June 4.[18] Haidai reported that Russian forces continued to target the remaining bridges in Severodonetsk to cut off Ukrainian logistics routes to Severodonetsk.[19] Russian forces also reportedly launched an unsuccessful offensive operation on Ustynivka, approximately 16km southeast of Severodonetsk, likely in an effort to secure positions on the western Siverskyi Donets Riverbank.[20]
Ukrainian forces continued to repel Russian offensive operations around Popasna and defended Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) between Bakhmut and Lysychansk.[21] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces launched missile and air strikes on settlements in Bakhmut’s vicinity.[22] Russian forces also reportedly performed demonstrative actions to distract Ukrainian defenders in the Avdiivka area but did not launch assaults in western Donetsk Oblast.[23] The UK Defense Ministry reported that Russian forces have improved their combined use of air and artillery strikes in Donbas compared to the first two months of the war.[24] Russian milblogger and Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) serviceman Maksim Fomin (Vladelen TatarZkiy) claimed that Russian infantry is still unable to successfully maneuver because Russian forces have not fully suppressed Ukrainian artillery.[25] Fomin added that Russian forces struggle to locate Ukrainian artillery due to a lack of necessary equipment (such as radar and drones) and poor communication between Russian artillery and reconnaissance units.



*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces did not conduct offensive operations in the Kharkiv City direction and continued to defend their previously occupied positions on June 4. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces continued to shell Ukrainian positions northeast of Kharkiv City and launched a missile strike on a transportation infrastructure facility near Mokhnach, approximately 36km southeast of the city.[26] Pro-Russian Telegram channel Rybar claimed that Ukrainian engineering elements reached Khotomlya, approximately 46km east of Kharkiv City and on the eastern bank of Pechenihy Reservoir, and are operating in the area, but have not regained full control over the territory.[27] Ukrainian officials and media sources have not shown any evidence that Ukrainian defenders crossed the Pechenihy Reservoir, but such an advance would threaten Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) in northern Kharkiv Oblast. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces continued to deliver ammunition to frontline units and withdrew up to 100 unspecified items of damaged military equipment via GLOCs in northern Kharkiv Oblast on June 4.[28]



*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces continued to undertake defensive measures and conducted missile, air, and artillery strikes throughout southern Ukraine on June 4. The Zaporizhia Oblast Military Administration reported that small-scale fighting continued on the line of contact but that Russian forces did not conduct offensive operations.[29] Russian forces continued to generate forces in Vasylkivka, approximately 45km south of Zaporizhia City.[30] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces fired at Ukrainian positions in central Zaporizhia Oblast and launched an airstrike on a Kamianske just north of Vasylkivka.[31] Russian forces launched missile strikes on Odesa and Mykolaiv Oblasts and continued to shell Mykolaiv City and Kherson Oblast.[32]



*Activity in Russian-occupied areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian President Vladimir Putin falsely denied that Russia is blocking Ukrainian seaports and inhibiting grain exports on June 3, despite Russian forces reportedly continuing to loot Ukrainian agribusiness.[33] Ukrainian Ambassador to Turkey Vasyl Bodnar reported that Russian forces are exporting stolen grain from Kherson Oblast to Turkey and other unspecified countries.[34]
Ukraine’s Security Service (SBU) reported that Ukrainian authorities are working with an unspecified international coalition to negotiate a prisoner exchange of the Mariupol defenders.[35] The SBU noted that the unspecified international coalition guaranteed the return of the Mariupol defenders, possibly implying that Russian and Ukrainian forces reached a conditional agreement upon the Ukrainian surrender of the Azovstal Steel Plant in Mariupol. The SBU added that the Red Cross bears the responsibility for all surrendered Mariupol defenders. The SBU noted that the Kremlin seeks to put Mariupol defenders on a demonstrative trial but did not specify how Russian sentencing could impact the prisoner exchange. Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian and Russian forces evenly exchanged bodies of deceased servicemen on June 4.[36]
Russian occupation authorities are unable to entirely suppress Ukrainian partisan activity, despite ongoing efforts to restrict movement and telecommunications in occupied territories. Mariupol Mayor’s Advisor Petro Andryushenko claimed that Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) officials agreed to strengthen filtration processes and restrict civilian movement between districts in Mariupol due to growing dissatisfaction among remaining residents and persistent information leaks to the Ukrainian authorities.[37] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian occupation authorities in Kherson Oblast enhanced their security and began wearing bulletproof vests and driving in armored vehicles due to Ukrainian resistance.[38] Some Ukrainian partisans have reportedly started offering payments in cryptocurrency for the destruction of Russian military equipment.[39]

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532771249897754624

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## jhungary

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532771249897754624


This (Feigned Retreat) is a very old tactics, really surprise they weren't used much often, it helped the Norman win the Battle of Hasting back in 1066.....which William the Conqueror defeat Harold Godwinson and eventually become Norman King of England......Well, when I say feigned retreat it's more or less an actual retreat then rally back for a counter attack (Not sure if this is the case with the Ukrainian)

Russia made a major tactical mistake forgotten that the Ukrainian still hold the Bridge south into Sieverodonetsk......That is why the Ukrainian can exploit the mistake and took back part of the city....

If you remember a few days ago, I posted that Ukrainian looks like pulling most of their force back south, and that troop are needing for something, and here you go. I just didn't think it come this early and Russia did take the bait, I mean if I, a lowly company grade commander can smell something is wrong, the Russian military command should have too......If only the Russian listen to what I have to say......They may be able to avoid it....lol



jhungary said:


> It's easy to see HIMARS is needed, they are quick, easy to load, and like triple 7, easy to pack and travel. The key to this war is always the artillery, because the Artillery game is the Russian playing, which mean you will at some point need to one up the Russian Artillery, at the very beginning, it's still quite hard to see whether they need system like 777/HIMARS/M270 or SAM like Patriot, but then a month pass and you probably can see artillery is more important than SAM and Russian fighter is not making any headway into Ukraine.
> 
> *I have no doubt in my mind the Ukrainian is going to push after Russia took Sieverodonestsk, they have completely withdraw from it and only leave a token unit behind to hinder the Russian pace taking the city, which mean something is up and they needed that troop for something*, what I can see is, Russia probably will try to go after Lysychansk after Sieverodonetsk, Ukrainian will try to blunt their river crossing effort and then launch a counter attack, that is what I would do if I was in that situation. It's hard to defend with the river behind you, it's a lot easier to defend when the river is between you and your enemy, especially so when your enemy is the attacker, and they need to cross that river.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533167143755427840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533151123036684289

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533150366866493442

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533149550931857408


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533122621772111873

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533122168258715649

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533122097718886400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533121671372087301

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533120985263652864

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## Hassan Al-Somal

MeFishToo said:


> Would be embarrasing to admit the chechen super soldiers didnt take Severodonetsk atleast a week ago, wouldnt Hassan Al-Somal?
> Maybe its time to find yourself some new sources, insted of parroting unreliable russian disinformation driven on twitter.



From Russian ministry of defense:


*"*Ukrainian Armed Force' units are retreating towards Lisichansk after suffering critical losses (up to 90% in various units) during the combats for Severodonetsk. The authorities in Kiev have ordered the combined tactical group to plant saltpetre and nitric acid tanks of a volume above 100 tonnes at Azot entity located in Severodonetsk.* "*

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533291181395783680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533293785760907268


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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533122295023251461

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Nuclear Clown

_Nabil_ said:


> View attachment 851403​


CherNabyl (dear Nabyl)
Since you can only express with memes, I can't figure out if you're a toddler or something else...
You definitively too your 100 REMs, you need such help:


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## jhungary

@Oldman1 remember this post I made 3 days ago??




jhungary said:


> easy to see HIMARS is needed, they are quick, easy to load, and like triple 7, easy to pack and travel. The key to this war is always the artillery, because the Artillery game is the Russian playing, which mean you will at some point need to one up the Russian Artillery, at the very beginning, it's still quite hard to see whether they need system like 777/HIMARS/M270 or SAM like Patriot, but then a month pass and you probably can see artillery is more important than SAM and Russian fighter is not making any headway into Ukraine.
> 
> *I have no doubt in my mind the Ukrainian is going to push after Russia took Sieverodonestsk, they have completely withdraw from it and only leave a token unit behind to hinder the Russian pace taking the city, which mean something is up and they needed that troop for something*, what I can see is, Russia probably will try to go after Lysychansk after Sieverodonetsk, Ukrainian will try to blunt their river crossing effort and then launch a counter attack, that is what I would do if I was in that situation. It's hard to defend with the river behind you, it's a lot easier to defend when the river is between you and your enemy, especially so when your enemy is the attacker, and they need to cross that river.



Another correct prediction by me  Well, i was incorrect that they didn't wait til Russia settle in Sivereodonetsk before making a push, they made that push *BEFORE*, which mean they have more balls than me. But well, overall I was right about that.

But one thing is scary tho, if I can see a trap coming, by all account the Russian military command should have too (I wasn't even a field grade officer in the Army) so something is terribly wrong when they felt into the trap that it should have been seen by EVERYBODY a long mile away, that show you how Russia persecute this war.

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## WotTen

jhungary said:


> This (Feigned Retreat) is a very old tactics



I would expect a retreating army to leave behind a sh!tload of booby-trapped or remote-controlled explosives all over the place.

Frankly, I was surprised the Americans didn't do the same to Bagram and other bases once they knew the Afghan army was useless. Maybe they left behind spy devices. Who knows?


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## jhungary

WotTen said:


> I would expect a retreating army to leave behind a sh!tload of booby-trapped or remote-controlled explosives all over the place.
> 
> Frankly, I was surprised the Americans didn't do the same to Bagram and other bases once they knew the Afghan army was useless. Maybe they left behind spy devices. Who knows?


Bagram was "Closed" and handed over to ANA this is not the same as retreat. Then ANA lose it to the Taliban. I mean, it's not in a sense when American have to withdraw from Bagram when Taliban is outside shooting rocket and artillery into the base.

If the American trapped the airbase when they were handed over, they may as well raze it to the ground because you can't use them when you trapped the entire base. And after the apparent failure of ANA, US did destroy and trapped a lot of equipment, that's why you only see a handful of aircraft is still flying.

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533192039885680642

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> From Russian ministry of defense:
> 
> 
> *"*Ukrainian Armed Force' units are retreating towards Lisichansk after suffering critical losses (up to 90% in various units) during the combats for Severodonetsk. The authorities in Kiev have ordered the combined tactical group to plant saltpetre and nitric acid tanks of a volume above 100 tonnes at Azot entity located in Severodonetsk.* "*


Acid tanks?
Nice
Ukraine can copy some methods from the Vietcong. For instance bamboo, metal speers. Against dirty invaders is everything ok.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533317393472180224


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## Viet

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533192039885680642


Je ne sais pas. Je pense Macron est faible. Ou il a son propere agenda.


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## jhungary

Al Jazeera reported Ukraine counter attacked 50% of Sieverodonetsk





__





Russia-Ukraine live news: Severodonetsk counteroffensive underway






www.msn.com





Not sure if this news to be trusted tho (I don't generally trust Al Jazeera)


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## ZeGerman

jhungary said:


> Al Jazeera reported Ukraine counter attacked 50% of Sieverodonetsk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine live news: Severodonetsk counteroffensive underway
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if this news to be trusted tho (I don't generally trust Al Jazeera)


I am confused though.

According to hassan al somalis great posts, severodonetsk and lysichank were encircled in a cauldron weeks ago. 
So where did all those reinforcements come from? The air? 

Also his very trustworthy source, the president of chechnia, claimed the city was fully taken a week ago?

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## Apollon

ZeGerman said:


> I am confused though.
> 
> According to hassan al somalis great posts, severodonetsk and lysichank were encircled in a cauldron weeks ago.
> So where did all those reinforcements come from? The air?
> 
> Also his very trustworthy source, the president of chechnia, claimed the city was fully taken a week ago?



According to him Ukraine has no airforce since february

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## ZeGerman

Apollon said:


> According to him Ukraine has no airforce since february


Its like goebbels having twitter access. 

“Breaking news” 
Hitler in his bunker states that germany lured the sovjets into berlin to crush them in one massive cauldron counteroffensive!

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## Nuclear Clown

Viet said:


> Je ne sais pas. Je pense Macron est faible. Ou il a son propere agenda.


J'en doute: déjà, il dit de ne pas humilier la Russie une fois la guerre finie.
Il pense certainement à un truc genre traité de Versailles, T'en as un certain nombre désireux de même fare pire... Tiens, un truc à la con: les mafieux du FSB veulent se faire du flouze... Le missile de croisière français coûte 18M€ pour 300 kilotonnes... à ton avis, un pétard de 1 kilotonne pour 23kg, ça revient à combien?

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## Apollon

Germany says it will never buy russian gas and oil again even if peace is made: 










Cem Özdemir: „Im Friedensfall nicht erneut russisches Gas oder Öl importieren“ - WELT


Landwirtschaftsminister Özdemir (Grüne) warnt Deutschland, sich je wieder bis zur Erpressbarkeit abhängig zu machen – ob von Russland oder China. Er sagt, wie er einkommensschwache Haushalte entlasten will. Und betont, dass auch Straßenbau die Lebensmittelproduktion gefährde.




www.welt.de






@S10 big sucess for Putin. He destroyed what was build up in decades within few days.


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## S10

Apollon said:


> Germany says it will never buy russian gas and oil again even if peace is made:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cem Özdemir: „Im Friedensfall nicht erneut russisches Gas oder Öl importieren“ - WELT
> 
> 
> Landwirtschaftsminister Özdemir (Grüne) warnt Deutschland, sich je wieder bis zur Erpressbarkeit abhängig zu machen – ob von Russland oder China. Er sagt, wie er einkommensschwache Haushalte entlasten will. Und betont, dass auch Straßenbau die Lebensmittelproduktion gefährde.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.welt.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @S10 big sucess for Putin. He destroyed what was build up in decades within few days



You mean Russia now having more money than it knows what to do with? Oh Putin is totally destroyed.









Russia Current Account Surplus Jumps to Record Despite Sanctions


Russia’s current account surplus more than tripled in the first four months of the year to $95.8 billion, the central bank said, as prices surged for its oil and gas exports and imports plunged under the weight of sanctions imposed by the US and its allies over President Vladimir Putin’s...




www.bloomberg.com












Russia is on track for a record trade surplus


Imports have collapsed, but exports are holding up




www.economist.com












Russia more than triples its current account surplus to US$96 billion as EU energy giants pay in rubles


Russian oil exports climbed by 620,000 barrels per day from the prior month to 8.1 million in April




nationalpost.com

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## jhungary

The person above don't know the reason why Russia have Trade surplus because Russia is not buying anything from the West due to sanction......It even said so on one of his reference "Import has collapsed but export is holding up"

Trade surplus does not mean you earn more money........

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## Apollon

S10 said:


> You mean Russia now having more money than it knows what to do with? Oh Putin is totally destroyed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Current Account Surplus Jumps to Record Despite Sanctions
> 
> 
> Russia’s current account surplus more than tripled in the first four months of the year to $95.8 billion, the central bank said, as prices surged for its oil and gas exports and imports plunged under the weight of sanctions imposed by the US and its allies over President Vladimir Putin’s...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bloomberg.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia is on track for a record trade surplus
> 
> 
> Imports have collapsed, but exports are holding up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.economist.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia more than triples its current account surplus to US$96 billion as EU energy giants pay in rubles
> 
> 
> Russian oil exports climbed by 620,000 barrels per day from the prior month to 8.1 million in April
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nationalpost.com



You obviously have no knowledge about economy. It cant buy anything from it. 😅👍


Not even medication. They even die from diabetes now because no insulin is shipped in. 😅👍


----------



## S10

Apollon said:


> You obviously have no knowledge about economy. It cant buy anything from it. 😅👍
> 
> 
> Not even medication. They even die from diabetes now because no insulin is shipped in. 😅👍


Supply chain takes a while to adjust. It's only been a few months. China is going to have a much larger share of pie along with India.

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## jhungary

Apollon said:


> You obviously have no knowledge about economy. It cant buy anything from it. 😅👍
> 
> 
> Not even medication. They even die from diabetes now because no insulin is shipped in. 😅👍


When you don't buy anything you need and you cannot produce from the outside, of course you will have trade surplus......

I wouldn't want to be in Russia tho, because it is the true definition of I have got money but no where to spend. Actually, more like I have money but that money I can't spend...

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## Apollon

S10 said:


> Supply chain takes a while to adjust. It's only been a few months. China is going to have a much larger share of pie along with India.



Doubt that. Chinese companies leave Russia in fear of sanctions. Huawei pulled out, chinese credit card companies pulled out. 


Russia is small market. Companies fear to lose the west. And for what? Russia? 









Huawei Suspends New Orders, Furloughs Russia Staff Amid Sanctions Threat – Reports - The Moscow Times


Chinese telecoms giant Huawei has furloughed its Russian staff for at least one month after suspending new orders as Beijing faces potential secondary sanctions for doing business with Moscow, Forbes Russia has reported.




www.themoscowtimes.com






New York, Berlin, Rome, Paris or London are better than Irkutsk. 😅👍

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## Viet

Raffie said:


> J'en doute: déjà, il dit de ne pas humilier la Russie une fois la guerre finie.
> Il pense certainement à un truc genre traité de Versailles, T'en as un certain nombre désireux de même fare pire... Tiens, un truc à la con: les mafieux du FSB veulent se faire du flouze... Le missile de croisière français coûte 18M€ pour 300 kilotonnes... à ton avis, un pétard de 1 kilotonne pour 23kg, ça revient à combien?


La Russie doit payer pour les dommages qu'elle a causés à l'Ukraine. oui certaines sortes de Versailles sont nécessaires. Cependant Macron a raison, la Russie ne devrait pas être humiliée par la façon dont l'Allemagne a été infligée. une fois la guerre terminée.
Je ne comprends pas “nucléaire”?


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## jhungary

My source in Ukraine said Russian was pushed out of Southern and Western Sievierdonetsk. They are holding just East and North of the City. Russian is now concentrated on Sirotino district East of the city.

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## Apollon

jhungary said:


> My source in Ukraine said Russian was pushed out of Southern and Western Sievierdonetsk. They are holding just East and North of the City. Russian is now concentrated on Sirotino district East of the city.



Heared that too. Russia fails to send new troops and Ukraine starts to win upper hand. Its always same pattern. Russia takes an area with force and then becomes anemic


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## jhungary

Apollon said:


> Heared that too. Russia fails to send new troops and Ukraine starts to win upper hand. Its always same pattern. Russia takes an area with force and then becomes anemic


Think I read it a few days ago Russia has committed their strategic reserve in this. Which mean anything or anyone have to come to rescue them would takes weeks, if not months.......

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## A.P. Richelieu

Viet said:


> La Russie doit payer pour les dommages qu'elle a causés à l'Ukraine. oui certaines sortes de Versailles sont nécessaires. Cependant Macron a raison, la Russie ne devrait pas être humiliée par la façon dont l'Allemagne a été infligée. une fois la guerre terminée.
> Je ne comprends pas “nucléaire”?


You are aware the Defence.pk terms and conditions requires posts to be in English!


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533372129021939713

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533361099046887425

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533370609304064003

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533370503553069056

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533357215679139840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533369580567121921

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533368885973508097

Reactions: Like Like:
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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533370503553069056





.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533326288999665665

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## kingQamaR

The real irony is that there was never a serious prospect of Ukraine joining either Nato or the EU. Nato rules prevent any country joining which has an unresolved military situation (like Ukraine had over Crinea and the Donbas) But now Putin has made it FAR more likely that Nato expansion will continue.


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## Viet

A.P. Richelieu said:


> You are aware the Defence.pk terms and conditions requires posts to be in English!


Ah sorry you are right.

Ah cool
Spain will deliver Leopard 2A4 to Ukraine.
For the first time ever Ukraine will receive modern western tanks. Ukraine can expect to get 40 Leo’s.










Ukraine-News +++ Choleragefahr durch Leichen – Quarantäne in Mariupol +++ - WELT


In Mariupol wurden Fälle von Ruhr festgestellt. Kiew fürchtet nun, dass sich durch verwesende Leichen und Abfall über das Trinkwasser auch Cholera ausbreiten könnte. Die russischen Besatzer habe nach ukrainischen Angaben eine Quarantäne angeordnet. Mehr im Liveticker.




www.welt.de

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## kingQamaR

Do they have trained crew?

Do they have trained service/maintenance personnel?

Do those personnel have the spare parts and other supplies that they need? For these tanks!


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## Primus

Viet said:


> Ah sorry you are right.
> 
> Ah cool
> Spain will deliver Leopard 2A4 to Ukraine.
> For the first time ever Ukraine will receive modern western tanks. Ukraine can expect to get 40 Leo’s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine-News +++ Choleragefahr durch Leichen – Quarantäne in Mariupol +++ - WELT
> 
> 
> In Mariupol wurden Fälle von Ruhr festgestellt. Kiew fürchtet nun, dass sich durch verwesende Leichen und Abfall über das Trinkwasser auch Cholera ausbreiten könnte. Die russischen Besatzer habe nach ukrainischen Angaben eine Quarantäne angeordnet. Mehr im Liveticker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.welt.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 851573


Western tank yes, modern no. 

The thing is from the 70s

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## kingQamaR

Huffal said:


> Western tank yes, modern no.
> 
> The thing is from the 70s



The Leopard 2A4 is still a relatively modern tank, at least if not compared to newer designs like the Leopard 2A7 or T-14 Armata. Against tanks from a similar era or cheaper tanks that are more modern, it would still fair pretty well. Against a tank like a Challenger 2 or an M1A2 SEP Abrams, not so much


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## Viet

Huffal said:


> Western tank yes, modern no.
> 
> The thing is from the 70s


So so shoes those things were invented long ago. Leopard today is not the same when it was developed. The newest is Leopard 2A7plus.










__





LEOPARD 2 A7+ - KMW


Die Leistungsmerkmale des LEOPARD 2 A7+




www.kmweg.de


----------



## The SC

After Russia announced the withdrawal of Ukrainian forces from Severdonetsk, here is the most important information about this city:

- It is the 5th largest city in Ukraine

- 25.5% of the population works in the mining industry

- It ranks second among the cities of #Ukraine in terms of sales of industrial goods, accounting for 5.7% of the country's economy in 2016

Governor of Lugansk region: control of the city of Severodonetsk divided equally between Ukrainian and Russian forces

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533415263592390661

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> The Leopard 2A4 is still a relatively modern tank, at least if not compared to newer designs like the Leopard 2A7 or T-14 Armata. Against tanks from a similar era or cheaper tanks that are more modern, it would still fair pretty well. Against a tank like a Challenger 2 or an M1A2 SEP Abrams, not so much


Rumour at the hill

US is mulling sending M1A1 Abrams (At least AIM v2 version) that the Marine gave up to Ukraine. There are about 3000 of those currently in storage doing nothing.

This has been on the table since the drawdown bill passed. The Bill called for 2 billions worth (roughly 50) M1A1 AIM v2 tank recently relinquished by the Marine to transfer to Ukraine.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533354189564301312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533382051503779845
In the early morning hours, several missile attacks were carried out on the city of Kyiv

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533332924887707648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533328552229277699


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533340772371660800
The Spanish government is ready to supply Ukraine with heavy weapons, including tanks and anti-aircraft missiles.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533325505168084992
Joe Biden faces panic among EU leaders over Russia's success in Ukraine - The Washington Post
"Biden's most urgent task was the need to calm terrified European allies who had begun talking about peace at any cost."

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533344175344738309
Ukrainian General Staff: Russia continues to target military and civilian infrastructure in Kiev

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533365464621010944

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## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> Rumour at the hill
> 
> US is mulling sending M1A1 Abrams (At least AIM v2 version) that the Marine gave up to Ukraine. There are about 3000 of those currently in storage doing nothing.
> 
> This has been on the table since the drawdown bill passed. The Bill called for 2 billions worth (roughly 50) M1A1 AIM v2 tank recently relinquished by the Marine to transfer to Ukraine.



Reality. It does no good to supply weapons to Ukraine which they are untrained in and don’t know how to maintain and supply It takes time to train mechanics and tank crews. Just giving someone tanks doesn’t solve much at all (except for make those tanks with rookie crews sitting ducks).


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533396921427058688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533396714757009408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533396181274992641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533395234389909504

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## Apollon

kingQamaR said:


> Reality. It does no good to supply weapons to Ukraine which they are untrained in and don’t know how to maintain and supply It takes time to train mechanics and tank crews. Just giving someone tanks doesn’t solve much at all (except for make those tanks with rookie crews sitting ducks).



Even with not well trained crews its still better than the russian trash. Beside that there are training programs

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533394999215267841

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533394682629201920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533394636600918019

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533394468262531072


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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> Reality. It does no good to supply weapons to Ukraine which they are untrained in and don’t know how to maintain and supply It takes time to train mechanics and tank crews. Just giving someone tanks doesn’t solve much at all (except for make those tanks with rookie crews sitting ducks).


Well, consider Master Gunnery Course at Fort Benning is 39 days. And a Driving course is around 20 days. It will not be hard to train to US Tanker level, even if they were to shorten the course to 30 days. I mean it is going to take time to deliver the tank to Ukraine anyway, so what US can do, if they really are sending these to Ukraine, they will probably fly the Ukrainian to Fort Benning, started training while loading the tank on ships and ship them to Ukraine while the Ukrainian tanker train stateside.

As for Maintenance. Poland is buying M1 Abrams, and there are US army facilities that can service them in Poland.

The only thing I have question is the Tank Commander, that's a 19 weeks course (I went thru that course) yes, it teaches you everything but you can't really uses Eastern Doctrine to operate a Western Tank/

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533372129021939713

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533371338651475968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533371347891544064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533370917618958337

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533432456820531205


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## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> Well, consider Master Gunnery Course at Fort Benning is 39 days. And a Driving course is around 20 days. It will not be hard to train to US Tanker level, even if they were to shorten the course to 30 days. I mean it is going to take time to deliver the tank to Ukraine anyway, so what US can do, if they really are sending these to Ukraine, they will probably fly the Ukrainian to Fort Benning, started training while loading the tank on ships and ship them to Ukraine while the Ukrainian tanker train stateside.
> 
> As for Maintenance. Poland is buying M1 Abrams, and there are US army facilities that can service them in Poland.
> 
> The only thing I have question is the Tank Commander, that's a 19 weeks course (I went thru that course) yes, it teaches you everything but you can't really uses Eastern Doctrine to operate a Western Tank/



That seems incredibly impractical. Have to train crews to use them which takes forever, Have to get them there which is a pain in the neck and takes forever. Have to also send all of the support staff and vehicles which is a pain in the *** and will take forever and then for what? In a defensive war that is a siege tanks have some severe disadvantages.


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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> That seems incredibly impractical. Have to train crews to use them which takes forever, Have to get them there which is a pain in the neck and takes forever. Have to also send all of the support staff and vehicles which is a pain in the *** and will take forever and then for what? In a defensive war that is a siege tanks have some severe disadvantages.


Again, as a M1 Tanker (well, I never drove an M1 beside in training, I went the Bradley route) myself, training and servicing is not really the problem. X recruit (The non-assigned just over basic) took 39 days in Fort Benning to become a tanker. That's how long it take for a person have no knowledge how a tank work before to a proficient tanker. Given the fact that, if they are doing it, they are most likely sending experienced crew to train with Abrams in Fort Benning, a lot of the operational classroom can possible forego and focus more on field training (Even our tanker only get 4 days field gunnery training) 

Servicing again is not really a problem, there are already US M1 Abrams in Poland, which mean they are going to bring in field maintenance and other support structure in Poland, so the maintenance base is only about 400km away, not that bad actually. 

And in Eastern Front, you will need tank to go after Russian tank, you have to cover a large distant without cover, that is not infantry country, that is tank country, and with smaller force, Ukraine are most likely looking for a mobility warfare, which make tank more important. 

Again my concern is how they are going to use that on their own doctrine, tank design around doctrine, Ukrainian tanker have a different mindset than US tanker.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533397716268683267

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533294880910258176

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533409562891526144


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533477956022067202


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## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> Again, as a M1 Tanker (well, I never drove an M1 beside in training, I went the Bradley route) myself, training and servicing is not really the problem. X recruit (The non-assigned just over basic) took 39 days in Fort Benning to become a tanker. That's how long it take for a person have no knowledge how a tank work before to a proficient tanker. Given the fact that, if they are doing it, they are most likely sending experienced crew to train with Abrams in Fort Benning, a lot of the operational classroom can possible forego and focus more on field training (Even our tanker only get 4 days field gunnery training)
> 
> Servicing again is not really a problem, there are already US M1 Abrams in Poland, which mean they are going to bring in field maintenance and other support structure in Poland, so the maintenance base is only about 400km away, not that bad actually.
> 
> And in Eastern Front, you will need tank to go after Russian tank, you have to cover a large distant without cover, that is not infantry country, that is tank country, and with smaller force, Ukraine are most likely looking for a mobility warfare, which make tank more important.
> 
> Again my concern is how they are going to use that on their own doctrine, tank design around doctrine, Ukrainian tanker have a different mindset than US tanker.



It’s just that Ukraine is not trying to fight the Russians in a major stand-up tank battle because they will lose war of attrition. Ukraine is trying to fight in small units using mobile weaponry and trying to preserve their tanks.


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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> It’s just that Ukraine is not trying to fight the Russians in a major stand-up tank battle because they will lose war of attrition. Ukraine is trying to fight in small units using mobile weaponry and trying to preserve their tanks.


Well, I am not talking about tank vs tank battle a la Battle of Kursk......

The Best way to defend the East is a few mobile tank brigade that do hit and run behind Russian line. You don't fight a numerically superior force toe to toe, you fight mobile.

Think of it this way, if Ukraine have advance tank, couple with MLRS/HIMARS, they can go after Kupiansk north east of Kharkiv and hit the supply line there. When you fight a war, you extend the GLOC, and if you are defending with less troop, the logical way is to hit their GLOC instead of their main force.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533477956022067202


Kind of late to the party.......

Already said that a few days ago when my friend spotted some in Ukraine, he incorrectly quote me they were from Denmark tho....

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533468156928344066


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## jhungary

@Oldman1 @Wood @Paul2

A friend of mine in Ukraine Armed Force just told me if MLRS/HIMARS were delivered to the Eastern Front, it will put Kupiansk within MLRS range from Pechenihy Reservoir (Which is their front line of the Kharkiv counter attack.) 

A little work from map distant calculator say it is 67.5 km distant between Pechenihy Reservoir and Kupiansk. HIMARS M30 rocket have a range of 80km.

That would no doubt change the dynamic of the war on this front.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533467486917640192

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## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> @Oldman1 @Wood @Paul2
> 
> A friend of mine in Ukraine Armed Force just told me if MLRS/HIMARS were delivered to the Eastern Front, it will put Kupiansk within MLRS range from Pechenihy Reservoir (Which is their front line of the Kharkiv counter attack.)
> 
> A little work from map distant calculator say it is 67.5 km distant between Pechenihy Reservoir and Kupiansk. HIMARS M30 rocket have a range of 80km.
> 
> That would no doubt change the dynamic of the war on this front.




Most believe the classified range of those rockets are in excess of 100km+

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533463273529556993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533452952324784134

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> Most believe the classified range of those rockets are in excess of 100km+


Well, you don't need 100+ KM, 80 would do if the Ukrainian really took Khotomlya like ISW or my friend suggested.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533446771376066562

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## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> Well, I am not talking about tank vs tank battle a la Battle of Kursk......
> 
> The Best way to defend the East is a few mobile tank brigade that do hit and run behind Russian line. You don't fight a numerically superior force toe to toe, you fight mobile.
> 
> Think of it this way, if Ukraine have advance tank, couple with MLRS/HIMARS, they can go after Kupiansk north east of Kharkiv and hit the supply line there. When you fight a war, you extend the GLOC, and if you are defending with less troop, the logical way is to hit their GLOC instead of their main force.
> 
> 
> Kind of late to the party.......
> 
> Already said that a few days ago when my friend spotted some in Ukraine, he incorrectly quote me they were from Denmark tho....



In a fair fight, they probably wouldn’t, because Russia’s military is just so much bigger.But this isn’t a fair fight. Attacking is costly in terms of losses. You must advance, across terrain that is unproven, not cleared and well known to the defender. Mines, IEDs and ambush teams can start destroying your forces before you ever get to the enemy.The defender can prepare a good ambush site, hide and when the invading forces come within range, hit them hard.

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## Soldier35

Russian troops hit Kiev. A large-scale missile strike was carried out by six X-101 missiles fired by Russian strategic bombers. On the outskirts of Kiev, T-72 tanks supplied by Eastern European countries and other armored vehicles located in the buildings of the Darnitsky wagon repair company were destroyed.






The attack of the soldiers of the Russian special forces of Chechnya in Ukraine. The Ukrainian soldier ignored the offer to surrender, after which he was destroyed in battle by soldiers of the Russian special forces.






Servicemen of the 45th artillery brigade of Ukraine, published an episode of the video of the destruction of the Ukrainian UAV. The drone corrected the artillery fire of Ukraine but was destroyed by the Russian SAM.






The US Department of Defense has published footage showing M113 armored personnel carriers preparing to be sent to Ukraine. In total, Kiev will receive 200 armored personnel carriers, which have been in service with the United States since the 1960s. The American M113 APC turned out to be successful and became the most massive armored personnel carrier in history. The armored personnel carrier can carry 11 infantrymen. The body of the APC is made of aluminum armor, with the addition of manganese and magnesium. One of the unsuccessful decisions of the APC, the lack of loopholes for shooters. A large-caliber 12.7 mm Browning M2NV machine gun was installed as the main armament on the M113 APC. The range of the car is up to 480 kilometers, in new versions.

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> In a fair fight, they probably wouldn’t, because Russia’s military is just so much bigger.But this isn’t a fair fight. Attacking is costly in terms of losses. You must advance, across terrain that is unproven, not cleared and well known to the defender. Mines, IEDs and ambush teams can start destroying your forces before you ever get to the enemy.The defender can prepare a good ambush site, hide and when the invading forces come within range, hit them hard.


Do you mean the Ukrainian should uses static ambushes to deal with the Russian? Or the other way around??

Ukrainian can't afford to pull static ambushes, because they are outnumber. If they do, they will get hit by the Russian one by one and the Russian will punch thru with sheer number, sure Russian casualty may be high if they do that but I don't really think Putin would care.

On the other hand, Russian is the attacking force, they probably are the one that needed to grind forward. It does not do them good for pulling ambushes because it will expose their GLOC everything they are in the front line. They needed to take the city then started to protect their supply line.


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## Wood

jhungary said:


> @Oldman1 @Wood @Paul2
> 
> A friend of mine in Ukraine Armed Force just told me if MLRS/HIMARS were delivered to the Eastern Front, it will put Kupiansk within MLRS range from Pechenihy Reservoir (Which is their front line of the Kharkiv counter attack.)
> 
> A little work from map distant calculator say it is 67.5 km distant between Pechenihy Reservoir and Kupiansk. HIMARS M30 rocket have a range of 80km.
> 
> That would no doubt change the dynamic of the war on this front.


Great news! Hope more batteries are delivered across all critical fronts in the east

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## jhungary

Wood said:


> Great news! Hope more batteries are delivered across all critical fronts in the east


Well, that is if the Ukrainian really did took Khotomlya like ISW suggested. But then you still have around 10 clicks spare, so I don't doubt the Ukrainian can put rounds on Russian LOC in Kupiansk, if they put those HIMARS to use, that's 90% sure.

Correction, Khotomlya is 63 km from Kupiansk

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## Hassan Al-Somal

In the coming weeks,* Russia will win in the Donbas* — Der Spiegel. *“The German foreign intelligence agency believes that the Ukrainian resistance could be broken in the next four to five weeks. In a series of confidential briefings recently, BND analysts +++*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533450434068852737
🇷🇺 Another post from Ramzan Kadyrov.

Video showing the destruction of the special group of the Armed Forces of Ukraine near Kamyshevakhi.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533481718086307840

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533488219765067777

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533495908154847232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533492480401874946

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## zartosht

Indias foreign minister absolutely destroyed team west stronk propaganda with 1 paragraph:



> *"Europe has to grow out of the mindset that Europe's problems are the world's problems, but the world's problems are not Europe's problems," *




_


https://sputniknews.com/20220603/lets-be-even-handed-indian-fm-calls-out-wests-hypocrisy-on-russian-energy-purchases---video-1095970397.html



This is after the _euro sissies were questioning india buying cheap russian en energy, and even turning a profit reselling the refined products to Europe .. 

This quote perfectly exemplifies western hypocracy, racism and exceptionalism. A conflict in ukraine is something the entire world should be sacrificing themselves for to save "euroz democrazy" But the euroes could care less about starving 3rd world people with their ridiculous sanctions and economic warfare. They could care less about non "blue eyed blondes" dying in other countries.... they literally said 500k iraqi kids starving was "worth it" ...... Yet they want to absolutely sacrifice you, your economy and national interests for them.... they are so full of themselves, so subconsciously racist, that they have become absolutely delusional..

Former Italian PM , AC milan owner, and geopolitical realist Silvio Berlusconi summed it up best :

*"The west wanted to isolate Russia from the world, but ended up Isolating itself from the world instead."*

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533505982961266692


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533503221729312768
Another Russian fighter shot down

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## Foinikas

Legend says,the Prime Minister was tired of @Apollon nagging all day about it.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533503110139760640

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## Apollon

zartosht said:


> Indias foreign minister absolutely destroyed team west stronk propaganda with 1 paragraph:
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> https://sputniknews.com/20220603/lets-be-even-handed-indian-fm-calls-out-wests-hypocrisy-on-russian-energy-purchases---video-1095970397.html
> 
> 
> 
> This is after the _euro sissies were questioning india buying cheap russian en energy, and even turning a profit reselling the refined products to Europe ..
> 
> This quote perfectly exemplifies western hypocracy, racism and exceptionalism. A conflict in ukraine is something the entire world should be sacrificing themselves for to save "euroz democrazy" But the euroes could care less about starving 3rd world people with their ridiculous sanctions and economic warfare. They could care less about non "blue eyed blondes" dying in other countries.... they literally said 500k iraqi kids starving was "worth it" ...... Yet they want to absolutely sacrifice you, your economy and national interests for them.... they are so full of themselves, so subconsciously racist, that they have become absolutely delusional..
> 
> Former Italian PM , AC milan owner, and geopolitical realist Silvio Berlusconi summed it up best :
> 
> *"The west wanted to isolate Russia from the world, but ended up Isolating itself from the world instead."*



Thing is...we dont even know who indias minister is. 


The west btw is the world. Russia basicly has "team poverty" behind themself. Deprived 3rd world hell holes. The West is 67% of world economy. The rest is meaningless. 


Take india for example. Oil it gets from Pussolini is minimal amounts compared to Europes consumption

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## zartosht

Apollon said:


> Thing is...we dont even know who indias minister is.
> 
> 
> The west btw is the world. Russia basicly has "team poverty" behind themself. Deprived 3rd world hell holes. The West is 67% of world economy. The rest is meaningless.
> 
> 
> Take india for example. Oil it gets from Pussolini is minimal amounts compared to Europes consumption



Who exactly is this "we" your talking about you clown troll ???? 

I didnt know a zionist false flagger pretending to be greek was the representative of the entire western world? 

Italian PM is not part of the "WE" of europe. This zionist cockroach is? 

European people suffocating from inflation and high energy prices are not "we" But zionist false flagger cockroaches are "we"?

Estonia is over 20% inflation and climbing. Their government is in crisis mode. But western media is pretending it doesnt exist.

There is a furiuos wave of resentment anger and absolute hatred developing in the west world towards their "zio-liberal" elites... the boris johnsons, trudeaus, bidens and other western puppet cockroach establishment picked dictators are in alot of trouble if they cant get this inflation thing under control. Panic is starting to set in western elites about their miscalculation...


Maybe hasbara zionist trolls feeding them delusional stories might be the only thing keeping this ponzi scheme known as the "wesT" alive.... for now..

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## Apollon

zartosht said:


> Who exactly is this "we" your talking about you clown troll ????
> 
> I didnt know a zionist false flagger pretending to be greek was the representative of the entire western world?
> 
> Italian PM is not part of the "WE" of europe. This zionist cockroach is?
> 
> European people suffocating from inflation and high energy prices are not "we" But zionist false flagger cockroaches are "we"?
> 
> Estonia is over 20% inflation and climbing. Their government is in crisis mode. But western media is pretending it doesnt exist.
> 
> There is a furiuos wave of resentment anger and absolute hatred developing in the west world towards their "zio-liberal" elites... the boris johnsons, trudeaus, bidens and other western puppet cockroach establishment picked dictators are in alot of trouble if they cant get this inflation thing under control. Panic is starting to set in western elites about their miscalculation...
> 
> 
> Maybe hasbara zionist trolls feeding them delusional stories might be the only thing keeping this ponzi scheme known as the "wesT" alive.... for now..



Berlusconi is not italian PM. He is a crooked moron and out of office since almost ten years. Who you quote next? Catherine the Great? Nobody sufferes here. Infact that socialist government in Germany spills out more and more goodies that one is stupid to go work. 300€ here. 500 € more pensions there. 


As for Rest of your bullshit. There is no miscalculation. We slaughter Russia in Ukraine and permanently destroy it. 😙👍 And you know what? Iran will help with cheap oil. 


Btw im not zionist. Im far right supremacist. Europe stands above evrything for me. Israel for me is just another tool to control the region in our favor. 


Ask @Foinikas


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## Nuclear Clown

zartosht said:


> Former Italian PM , AC milan owner, and geopolitical realist Silvio Berlusconi summed it up best :
> 
> *"The west wanted to isolate Russia from the world, but ended up Isolating itself from the world instead."*


Berlusconi is a criminal!
He was convicted of false accounting, embezzlement, masking payments of substantial "black funds", tax fraud, tax evasion.
On 8 May 2013, the Court of Appeals in Milan confirmed the four-year prison sentence, and extended the public office ban to five years. He has many other ongoing court cases.
Berlusconi is well known for his frieendship with people of the likes of Gaddafi, Medvedev, Lukashenko, Putin.
He's well known for his anti-EU posture while having been the greatest promoter of Turkey's EU membeship, as well as for links with Cosa Nostra (Italian mafia), paid "services" to underage Moroccan prostitute, etc etc







zartosht said:


> This quote perfectly exemplifies western hypocracy, racism and exceptionalism. A conflict in ukraine is something the entire world should be sacrificing themselves for to save "euroz democrazy" But the euroes could care less about starving 3rd world people with their ridiculous sanctions and economic warfare.


What a bunch of BS !!! Many EU countries have a bigger humanitarian package than their military budget and maybe should you pay a visit rather than wanking on Sputnik lies, we're definitively multiethnic... Tell us about the % of white people or even Jews in your country, then let's compare with ethnic statistics e.g. in France or Germany for fun... EU has anti-racism laws, tell us about the open anti-semitism of your government!!! 

*BTW, IT'S PUTIN BLOCKADING ODESA PORT WHERE 6.5% OF WORLD'S WHEAT EXPORTS ARE WAITING TO FEED THE 3rd WORLD FOR CHEAPER THAN RUSSIAN WHEAT... IF YOU WANT TO COMPLAINT ABOUT A FAMINE START, CALL THE KREMLIN... OR GIVE LONG RANGE ANTI SHIP AND ANTI SUBMARINE MISSILES TO UKRAINE, e.g. India's **BrahMos* (800m range, Mach3 anti-ship)* and DRDO SMART *(600km range missile carrying a torped)* ! IT WILL BE MORE EFFICIENT THAN LETTING PUTIN WEAPONIZE THE FAMINE HE IS ENGINEERING !!! *


zartosht said:


> But the euroes could care less about starving 3rd world people with their ridiculous sanctions and economic warfare. They could care less about non "blue eyed blondes" dying in other countries.... they literally said 500k iraqi kids starving was "worth it" ......


NO EU LEADER EVER SAID THIS !!! 
It was late US secretary of state Madeleine Albright








Madeleine Albright - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




Moreover, it wasn't about starving, but a propaganda stunt by Iraqi government saying that half a million children died due to alleged sanctions on medical drugs and gear that in fact, weren't sanctionned AT ALL : 



> _Whereas it was widely believed that the sanctions more than doubled Iraq's child mortality rate, research following the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq has shown that commonly cited data were fabricated by the Iraqi government and that "there was no major rise in child mortality in Iraq after 1990 and during the period of the sanctions".[129][130] Albright addressed the controversy at length in a 2020 memoir: "In fact, the producers of 60 Minutes were duped. Subsequent research has shown that Iraqi propagandists deceived international observers ... Per a 2017 article in the British Medical Journal of Global Health, the data 'were rigged to show a huge and sustained—and largely non-existent—rise in child mortality ... to heighten international concern and so get the international sanctions ended.' ... This is not to deny that UN sanctions contributed to hardships in Iraq or to say that my answer to Stahl's question wasn't a mistake. They did, and it was. ... U.S. policy throughout the 1990s was to prevent Iraq from reconstituting its most dangerous weapons programs. Short of another war, UN sanctions were the best means for doing so."__[131]_

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## ZeGerman

Raffie said:


> Berlusconi is a criminal!
> He was convicted of false accounting, embezzlement, masking payments of substantial "black funds", tax fraud, tax evasion.
> On 8 May 2013, the Court of Appeals in Milan confirmed the four-year prison sentence, and extended the public office ban to five years. He has many other ongoing court cases.
> Berlusconi is well known for his frieendship with people of the likes of Gaddafi, Medvedev, Lukashenko, Putin.
> He's well known for his anti-EU posture while having been the greatest promoter of Turkey's EU membeship, as well as for links with Cosa Nostra (Italian mafia), paid "services" to underage Moroccan prostitute, etc etc
> View attachment 851666
> 
> 
> What a bunch of BS !!! Many EU countries have a bigger humanitarian package than their military budget and maybe should you pay a visit rather than wanking on Sputnik lies, we're definitively multiethnic... Tell us about the % of white people or even Jews in your country, then let's compare with ethnic statistics e.g. in France or Germany for fun... EU has anti-racism laws, tell us about the open anti-semitism of your government!!!
> 
> *BTW, IT'S PUTIN BLOCKADING ODESA PORT WHERE 6.5% OF WORLD'S WHEAT EXPORTS ARE WAITING TO FEED THE 3rd WORLD FOR CHEAPER THAN RUSSIAN WHEAT... IF YOU WANT TO COMPLAINT ABOUT A FAMINE START, CALL THE KREMLIN... OR GIVE LONG RANGE ANTI SHIP AND ANTI SUBMARINE MISSILES TO UKRAINE, e.g. India's **BrahMos* (800m range, Mach3 anti-ship)* and DRDO SMART *(600km range missile carrying a torped)* ! IT WILL BE MORE EFFICIENT THAN LETTING PUTIN WEAPONIZE THE FAMINE HE IS ENGINEERING !!! *
> 
> NO EU LEADER EVER SAID THIS !!!
> It was late US secretary of state Madeleine Albright
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Madeleine Albright - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moreover, it wasn't about starving, but a propaganda stunt by Iraqi government saying that half a million children died due to alleged sanctions on medical drugs and gear that in fact, weren't sanctionned AT ALL :


Hats off for the amazing rely. Now i will wait zartosh to either ignore it completely, or respond with even more conspiracy theories and unfunded blame

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## Clutch




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## ZeGerman

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533503110139760640


Actually we should give ukraine most of the “in storage” weapons. Its basically forward defence


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Apollon said:


> Berlusconi is not italian PM. He is a crooked moron and out of office since almost ten years. Who you quote next? Catherine the Great? Nobody sufferes here. Infact that socialist government in Germany spills out more and more goodies that one is stupid to go work. 300€ here. 500 € more pensions there.
> 
> 
> As for Rest of your bullshit. There is no miscalculation. We slaughter Russia in Ukraine and permanently destroy it. 😙👍 And you know what? Iran will help with cheap oil.
> 
> 
> Btw im not zionist. Im far right supremacist. Europe stands above evrything for me. Israel for me is just another tool to control the region in our favor.
> 
> 
> Ask @Foinikas





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533470192159817728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533470196530352131
Sanctions are biting Germany. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533526663287521280

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## Nuclear Clown

zartosht said:


> European people suffocating from inflation and high energy prices are not "we" But zionist false flagger cockroaches are "we"?
> 
> There is a furiuos wave of resentment anger and absolute hatred developing in the west world towards their "zio-liberal" elites... the boris johnsons, trudeaus, bidens and other western puppet cockroach establishment picked dictators are in alot of trouble if they cant get this inflation thing under control. Panic is starting to set in western elites about their miscalculation...


Frankly, I received an €200 and an €100 energy check from our govt, it fully covered the warming of my house last winter, thanks to the isolation job I did!!! 
I see no increase in food prices at LIDL or Aldi, I like Aldi a lot since everything is de-branded products : you get all the Gervais, Danone, Bel stuff for about half the usual price. De-branding is a typical EU feature due to the CAP-induced over production : Rather than only selling under their most advertised brand names which target high-end shops, all the over-production is rebranded, e.g. the Vache-qui-Rit box gets a "Paturon" sticker which is sold to hard-discount super-markets...
In the end, they even make more money at selling the rebrands on the hard discount market and the poor gets great quality food too...

The only thing on the heavy side is the price of gasoline... For sure, at €1.88-2.02 per L of Super-95 instead of €1.15 one year ago, it causes issues if you drive a lot, but... Maybe time to consider electric/hybrid cars???? 
Without all these ugly states that sponsor terrorism to protect their fossil energy sales, we'd all have nuclear-propelled cars for long... 
Moreover, with fast-breeders, nuke is a renewable energy...



zartosht said:


> Italian PM is not part of the "WE" of europe. This zionist cockroach is?
> There is a furiuos wave of resentment anger and absolute hatred developing in the west world towards their "zio-liberal" elites...
> Maybe hasbara zionist trolls feeding them delusional stories might be the only thing keeping this ponzi scheme known as the "wesT" alive.... for now..


Funny fact : this convicted ex-Italian PM was also the greatest friend in the EU for... Benyamin Netanyahu
Actually, Berlusconi also advocated Israel's entry in the EU
Well, to be frank, it would be a great idea: it would piss off all racists and the start-up nation would be a wonderful add to the EU, and I have a bit enough that we're always the only ones doing EU's "dirty" [military] job, moreover, they're also a significant nuke power. Same with Ukraine's entry : we'd have a nice kickass quartet with Israel, Ukraine, Greece and France and it'd drive dudes like you totally insane... You're a rare case : more than 80% of Iranian people are pro-west and pro-Israel, the others gets the benefits from the illegitimate tyranny that runs the country since 1979...

Now, I'm surprised Berlusconi wasn't friend with Khamenei as he likes a lot rooked politicians! In terms of embezzlement and stealing his people's money, Khamenei is world's #2 after Putin with an about $95 billions wealth

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## The SC

Reuters from Russian media: Russian general Roman Kutuzov was killed in eastern Ukraine
@AlArabiya_Brk


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533518405042589697

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533517086479220736

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533496407277150211

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533444950251167744

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533465853370503168


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533533474979688449


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533467199519735809


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533533474979688449





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533542497816829952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533557822880817153

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533556046077349889

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533555829479292930
https://twitter.com/spriteer_774400/status/1533555271225819137

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533557119181590530

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533553181451603969

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## Nuclear Clown

kingQamaR said:


> Reality. It does no good to supply weapons to Ukraine which they are untrained in and don’t know how to maintain and supply It takes time to train mechanics and tank crews. Just giving someone tanks doesn’t solve much at all (except for make those tanks with rookie crews sitting ducks).


Don't worry, you can be sure there will be trained personnel too


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533468156928344066





Many Of Russia’s Aircraft Banned From Flying In China


Ooops!!!
Orcs from Mordor not welcomed in civilized airspaces

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533517256528887813

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533546980529606659

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533555072055005185

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533517256528887813
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533546980529606659


Wow, with all the videos of the MASSES of surrendering ukranians their front must completely have collapsed by now. 

How many hundreds of kilometers did the russians take the last weeks?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533544479604473857

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533523536802873344

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## Nuclear Clown

Soldier35 said:


> Russian troops hit Kiev. A large-scale missile strike was carried out by six X-101 missiles fired by Russian strategic bombers. On the outskirts of Kiev, T-72 tanks supplied by Eastern European countries and other armored vehicles located in the buildings of the Darnitsky wagon repair company were destroyed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The attack of the soldiers of the Russian special forces of Chechnya in Ukraine. The Ukrainian soldier ignored the offer to surrender, after which he was destroyed in battle by soldiers of the Russian special forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Servicemen of the 45th artillery brigade of Ukraine, published an episode of the video of the destruction of the Ukrainian UAV. The drone corrected the artillery fire of Ukraine but was destroyed by the Russian SAM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The US Department of Defense has published footage showing M113 armored personnel carriers preparing to be sent to Ukraine. In total, Kiev will receive 200 armored personnel carriers, which have been in service with the United States since the 1960s. The American M113 APC turned out to be successful and became the most massive armored personnel carrier in history. The armored personnel carrier can carry 11 infantrymen. The body of the APC is made of aluminum armor, with the addition of manganese and magnesium. One of the unsuccessful decisions of the APC, the lack of loopholes for shooters. A large-caliber 12.7 mm Browning M2NV machine gun was installed as the main armament on the M113 APC. The range of the car is up to 480 kilometers, in new versions.


Time to deliver SCALP-EG, MdCN and other cruise missiles to Ukraine so they can retaliate on Moscow or Leningrad : it's unfair Joe Bidet refuses to deliver long range missiles! Eye for eye, tooth for tooth...
Time to re-create the Flying Tigers...






The French EC/30 Normandie-Niemen squadron fought the Nazi-German together with the Soviets on the Eastern Front, time to send them o fight the naZi-ruZian on the side of Ukraine !!!


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## Nuclear Clown

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533503221729312768
> Another Russian fighter shot down


"Suka" you hear during the video doesn't means Sukhoi...It 's a word used for women who "go" with everyone...
Considering the altitude, it's likely a Flanker or a Fulcrum.


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## Primus

Raffie said:


> "Suka" you hear during the video doesn't means Sukhoi...It 's a word used for women who "go" with everyone...
> Considering the altitude, it's likely a Flanker or a Fulcrum.


It was a su27


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## Apollon

Lawrow had to cancel his trip to Serbia because EU and FYROM banned his flight entering airspace. 


https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...reign-ministers-visit-serbia-ifax-2022-06-05/ 


😙👍


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## Foinikas

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533503110139760640


Hah we have way more than 60 Stinger manpads. I disagree about sending all that stuff to Ukraine,but I guess the RPG-18 and the rockets are expiring.

We probably got the RPG-18s back in the early '90s along with the BMP-1s from ex-DDR stocks.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533560714081837056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533559694073155584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533559685659381762

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## Apollon

Good news. Another russian general killed. Roman Kutzov is 11th general to be liquidated 










Disaster for Vladimir Putin as 11th general killed in bloody war with Ukraine


Major-General Roman Kutuzov was the chief of staff of the 29th Combined Arms Army and his vehicle was ambushed by Ukrainians and he died in a fight in Donbas, say sources




www.google.com

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## F-22Raptor

*Ukrainian forces continued to conduct limited and localized but successful counterattacks against Russian positions throughout Ukraine on June 5, including retaking large areas of Severodonetsk—the city in Luhansk Oblast the Kremlin has concentrated the majority of its forces on capturing.* A Russian Telegram channel claimed that Ukrainian troops launched a counterattack north of Kharkiv City, indicating that Ukrainian forces continue to pressure Russian defensive lines near the Russian border.[1] Ukrainian forces are likely seeking to leverage the continued Russian focus on Severodonetsk to conduct counterattacks on other axes of advance. Even as Russian forces continue to pour equipment and troops into the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area, Ukrainian forces have conducted a successful counterattack in Severodonetsk in the last 48 hours and pushed Russian troops back to the eastern outskirts of the city and out of southern settlements.[2] Ukrainian counteroffensive pressure will likely continue to draw the attention of Russian forces to Luhansk Oblast and therefore leave vulnerabilities in Russian defensive efforts in Kharkiv Oblast and along the Southern Axis. The ability of Ukrainian forces to successfully counterattack in Severodonetsk, the Kremlin’s current priority area of operations, further indicates the declining combat power of Russian forces in Ukraine.






Institute for the Study of War


Ukrainian forces continued to conduct limited and localized but successful counterattacks against Russian positions throughout Ukraine on June 5, including retaking large areas of Severodonetsk—the city in Luhansk Oblast the Kremlin has concentrated the m




www.understandingwar.org

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533559216983707648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533558921566339073

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533557554072133633

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533557263708868609


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## F-22Raptor

The fact Russians are getting pushed out of Severodonetsk after all the firepower they’ve committed there tells me the Russians have little offensive capability left.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533557947510448129

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533556779602350081

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533555765306433536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533555519566258176
Russian soldier flees after playing 'Dead'.. During the bombing of the Ukrainian Drones



https://defense-arab.com/vb/data/video/486/486811-7c3db2b04ff54ca47d76874afb6a2747.mp4

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> The fact Russians are getting pushed out of Severodonetsk after all the firepower they’ve committed there tells me the Russians have little offensive capability left.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533497107918770178

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533522624185348098

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533574055957344258

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## Hassan Al-Somal

ZeGerman said:


> Wow, with all the videos of the MASSES of surrendering ukranians their front must completely have collapsed by now.
> 
> How many hundreds of kilometers did the russians take the last weeks?





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533430046282612739

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## Wood

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/v5cl96

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533497107918770178
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533522624185348098
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533574055957344258




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533105755943227393
Russia has made few gains in the last month


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532871000731312129

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## F-22Raptor

Ukraine now controls 80% of Severodonetsk

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 5​Jun 5, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF

*Karolina Hird, Mason Clark, and George Barros
June 5, 5:15 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Ukrainian forces continued to conduct limited and localized but successful counterattacks against Russian positions throughout Ukraine on June 5, including retaking large areas of Severodonetsk—the city in Luhansk Oblast the Kremlin has concentrated the majority of its forces on capturing.* A Russian Telegram channel claimed that Ukrainian troops launched a counterattack north of Kharkiv City, indicating that Ukrainian forces continue to pressure Russian defensive lines near the Russian border.[1] Ukrainian forces are likely seeking to leverage the continued Russian focus on Severodonetsk to conduct counterattacks on other axes of advance. Even as Russian forces continue to pour equipment and troops into the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area, Ukrainian forces have conducted a successful counterattack in Severodonetsk in the last 48 hours and pushed Russian troops back to the eastern outskirts of the city and out of southern settlements.[2] Ukrainian counteroffensive pressure will likely continue to draw the attention of Russian forces to Luhansk Oblast and therefore leave vulnerabilities in Russian defensive efforts in Kharkiv Oblast and along the Southern Axis. The ability of Ukrainian forces to successfully counterattack in Severodonetsk, the Kremlin’s current priority area of operations, further indicates the declining combat power of Russian forces in Ukraine.
*Ukrainian forces reportedly killed Russian Major General Roman Kutuzov on June 5. *Russian Telegram channels reported that Kutuzov was killed near Mykolaivka, Luhansk Oblast (near Popasna) on June 5.[3] Kutuzov likely commanded the Donetsk People’s Republic’s 1st Army Corps at the time of his death, though ISW cannot confirm his exact position.[4] Some sources reported that Kutuzov commanded the 5th Combined Arms Army (CAA) at the time of his death, but we assess this is likely incorrect—Kutuzov served as acting commander of the 5th CAA from 2017 to 2019, and Major General Alexei Vladimirovich Podilov currently commands the 5th CAA.[5] High-level Russian commanders have taken remarkably high losses during combat in Ukraine, and will likely continue to do so as the Russian command continues to deploy military leadership directly to the frontline. Kutuzov’s death has not yet been confirmed but would be at least the seventh death of a general in Ukraine since the beginning of the war.[6]
*Russian forces conducted their first missile strike against Kyiv in over a month on June 5. *Advisor to the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense Vadym Denysenko stated that Russian forces fired five X-22 cruise missiles from a Tu-95 aircraft at Kyiv from the direction of the Caspian Sea that hit the Darnytsia Rail Car Repair Plant on the outskirts of Kyiv.[7] The Russian Ministry of Defense claimed that this strike targeted T-72 tanks supplied to Ukraine by other Eastern European countries, but images of the target area confirm that the missiles hit the Darnytsia plant.[8] It is unclear if Russian forces intended to strike foreign-provided Ukrainian tanks and missed, or if the Kremlin is attempting to obfuscate its intended target. This attack on Kyiv likely indicates that Russian forces are continuing to target Ukrainian infrastructure in non-critical areas of Ukraine in order to disrupt Ukrainian logistics as Russian forces take considerable losses in Donbas.
*Russian military bloggers continued to reckon with overarching struggles in Russian force generation on June 5. *Russian milblogger Alexander Khodakovsky accused “screamers in the guise of patriots” of hypocritically calling for general mobilization while at the same time discrediting the Russian military leadership and driving away those who would voluntarily take up arms for Russia.[9] Khodakovsky blamed the pervasive public discourse on general mobilization for making people overthink and subsequently become less willing to enter military service, thereby forcing Russian military command closer to actually needing to announce general mobilization. Khodakovsky suggested that this discourse is setting Russia up for a long war in Ukraine and that Russian authorities have been positioned to take the blame for losses. Russian war journalist Alexander Sladkov claimed that the Russian grouping in Ukraine is an ”exclusively professional army” not staffed by conscripts, while simultaneously calling for the removal of health requirements for rear and combat specialties in order to mobilize those who should be medically disqualified.[10] These and other comments by Russian military specialists indicate the Russian military community is increasingly aware of issues in sustaining mobilization efforts and different actors are seeking to apportion blame as Russian operations continue to stall.
*Key Takeaways*

*Ukrainian counterattacks in Severodonetsk recaptured large parts of the city and forced Russian troops out of the southern suburbs of the city.*
*Russian forces continued efforts to converge on Slovyansk from the southeast of Izyum and west of Lyman but remain unlikely to make notable advances around Slovyansk due to their continued prioritization of Severodonetsk.*
*Ukrainian troops reportedly conducted limited and localized counterattacks north of Kharkiv City.*
*Russian forces continued to hold their defensive lines and fire at Ukrainian positions along the Southern Axis.*
*Ukrainian forces likely killed Russian Major General Roman Kutuzov near Popasna.*
*

*
*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.
ISW has updated its assessment of the four primary efforts Russian forces are engaged in at this time. We have stopped coverage of Mariupol as a separate effort since the city’s fall. We had added a new section on activities in Russian-occupied areas:*

Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate main effort- Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
Supporting effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting effort 2—Southern Axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued efforts to advance toward Slovyansk from Izyum and made limited, unsuccessful attacks on June 5. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces conducted unsuccessful ground assaults on Bohorodychne and Dovhenke, 35 and 25 km southeast of Izyum, respectively.[11] Russian forces are additionally making incremental advances to the northwest of Lyman around Svyatohirsk, about 30 kilometers directly north of Slovyansk, and reportedly advanced to within 15 km of Slovyansk.[12] The Russian effort in this area is likely intended to link advances southeast of Izyum with Russian operations to the north and west of Lyman, with both axes converging on Slovyansk. However, Russian forces remain unlikely to make notable advances on this front as Russian troops continue to prioritize Severodonetsk at the expense of other lines of effort.



Ukrainian forces conducted further counterattacks in Severodonetsk on June 5, halting Russian advances and recapturing large areas of the city. Head of the Luhansk Regional State Administration Serhiy Haidai stated that Ukrainian forces have recaptured 70% of Severodonetsk from Russian forces in the last two days and that Russian forces now only control the eastern outskirts of the city.[13] A Russian Telegram channel additionally stated that a limited Ukrainian counterattack pushed Russian troops out of Syrotne and Lisna Dacha, villages on the southern outskirts of Severodonetsk.[14] Russian forces continued to carry out artillery, mortar, and MLRS strikes to support operations in Severodonetsk, Lysychansk, Toshkivka, and Ustynivka.[15] Ukrainian counterattacks in Severodonetsk will likely force Russian commanders to commit additional degraded units and equipment to the area to halt successful Ukrainian efforts to roll back gains Russian forces took over a week to secure.[16]
Russian forces continued air, artillery, and ground attacks to the east of Bakhmut but did not make any confirmed advances on June 5.[17] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces transferred 20 units of unspecified weapons and military equipment to replenish losses in the Bakhmut area, indicating that Russian forces are sustaining casualties in their continued efforts to gain control of ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to the northeast of Bakhmut.[18] Russian forces continued ground assaults on the eastern arc of Bakhmut in Bilohorivka, Mykailivka, and Dolomitne.[19] The Russian grouping in the Donetsk City-Avdiivka area did not engage in any confirmed advances on June 5.[20]



*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces are reportedly fighting to hold their occupied positions north of Kharkiv City following limited Ukrainian counterattacks on June 5. A Russian Telegram channel claimed that Ukrainian forces launched a counterattack against Russian positions in northern Kharkiv Oblast and that Ukrainian forces are attempting to advance in Tsupivka, Turove, Velyki Prokhody, Ternova, Rubizhne (the Rubizhne in Kharkiv Oblast, not in Luhansk) and Staryi Saltiv.[21] ISW cannot independently confirm if Ukrainian forces recaptured these locations or are currently contesting them. However, Ukrainian forces likely seek to take advantage of the Russian focus on Severodonetsk to make prudent counterattacks in other sectors. Russian forces continued artillery strikes against Kharkiv City and its environs and fired on Tsyrkuny, Derhachi, Ruski and Cherkasy Tyshky, Staryi Saltiv, and Kozacha Lopan.[22]



*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces continued to hold their defensive lines and fire on Ukrainian positions along the Southern Axis on June 5.[23] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces mined the bank of the Inhulets River in anticipation of Ukrainian counteroffensives in Kherson Oblast, indicating that Russian troops are feeling the pressure of recent localized Ukrainian counterattacks along the Kherson-Mykolaiv Oblast border.[24] Russian troops continued unsuccessful ground assaults in northern Kherson around Vysokopillya and Kochubeivka and intensively fired on the line of contact in Zaporizhia, Dnipropetrovsk, and Mykolaiv Oblasts.[25]



*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian occupation authorities continued efforts to strengthen bureaucratic, societal, and economic control of occupied areas but did not make any major changes on June 5. Advisor to the Mayor of Mariupol Petro Andryushchenko claimed that the occupation administration in Mariupol continues to fail to provide basic social services for citizens and that the city is still facing widespread restrictions on water access.[26]

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533571305756413953
In case anyone wants to see a real Air Force


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## Wood




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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533105755943227393
> Russia has made few gains in the last month




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533340772371660800


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## jhungary

Wood said:


>


Russia is now at a strategic underhand position. 

Once HIMARS or MLRS are in Ukraine inventory, I have no doubt in my mind that they are going to use them on the edge of Kharkiv and target Kupiansk, the all important railway junction that not only flow material and men from Belgorod but also Valuysky. If Kupiansk is disrupted, it disrupt the entire Northern Line of Communication. Ukrainian force are confirmed to be either at the West or East Bank of Pechenihy Reservoir, both side is within MLRS range on Kupiansk (West bank is 70km away East bank is 63km) 

Doing so will limit supply and men flow from Russia from North, and any supporting effort would have to conduct from South (near Crimea) 

Also, it make sense why Ukrainian risk the push now (Ukrianian gambled on the fact that Russia was unprepared for a counter attack) , because if they didn't push Sievierodonetsk now, and wait for Russian to occupy the city, you will need those HIMARS to dislodge them from the city, with them doing it now and holding the city for as long as possible, they can use those HIMARS to target supply hubs in Kupiansk. And if Sievierdonetsk eventually fall, they can move those HIMARS back to Kramatorsk or Sloviansk and use them on Sievierdonetsk.

That would be my prediction.

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## jhungary

@Oldman1 What did I say about British M270??





__





Britain to send long-range missiles to Ukraine after Russia hits Kyiv






www.msn.com

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## Apollon

Truthwarrior said:


> For the sake of geopolitical BALANCE I hope Russia wins overwhelmingly! I do not know if this goes against the rules, but I watch videos of the war update that are posted almost daily or every other day on Southfront.org Tactical maps and everything!



What an idiotic thing to say. People like you would have applauded Hitler in 1939 as well. If Russia wins, civilisation ends. Europe would fall under Russias facist regime. Freedom and democracy would collapse. If you believe Europe would go silent into the night you are mistaken. We would use nuclear weapons as last resort.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533114725403328513

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533115279974313985

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533116406245511169

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533118847192117253


----------



## Apollon

jhungary said:


> @Oldman1 What did I say about British M270??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Britain to send long-range missiles to Ukraine after Russia hits Kyiv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com



The UK...shows absolute Margret Thatcher vibes


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533443024038019072*

Is Washington looking for an exit of the conflict and pressuring the Ukrainians? It seems the high oil prices, the food crisis in the world as a result of the sanctions, the petroleum trade that is happening outside of the US Dollar, the European leaders who are facing local pressures, and the upcoming mid-term elections seem to be forcing Biden administration's hands.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533671268108623872

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## jhungary

God you really have to love how Russian intentionally misquote people on Twitter, but then afterall, it's twitter









How the Ukraine war must end


Putin will never accept defeat




unherd.com





BY EDWARD LUTTWAK​
That leaves the disposition of the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, substantial territories that Zelensky does not have the authority to give up, and without which Putin cannot leave the table where he has gambled and lost so much. While Putin cannot be given the two regions he demanded before starting the war, he can be provided with something that he can portray as a victory: plebiscites in both regions where properly certified residents, including returning refugees, would be allowed to vote on whether their oblast should remain Ukrainian or join Russia.

Upon acceptance of the plebiscites in principle, a cease-fire would come into immediate effect, with Russia’s respect of their terms guaranteed by the ease of reimposing sanctions just lifted.


----------



## DF41

__





Military Watch Magazine







militarywatchmagazine.com





Russia’s Lethal New Howitzer to be a Game Changer for its Ground Forces; How Capable is the 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV Mobile Artillery Piece​

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533340772371660800


Fake news
Der Bundesnachrichtendienst is a secret service, will never say such thing, least in public.

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## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


> @Oldman1 What did I say about British M270??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Britain to send long-range missiles to Ukraine after Russia hits Kyiv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com


3 units as per BBC World Service - plus the 4 the US are sending. It all adds to Ukrainian capacity.



Viet said:


> Fake news
> Der Bundesnachrichtendienst is a secret service, will never say such thing, least in public.


This Sirius report twitter handle just posts shitposts without citing any source.his sources are mainly as follows:

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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> 3 units as per BBC World Service - plus the 4 the US are sending. It all adds to Ukrainian capacity.
> 
> 
> This Sirius report twitter handle just posts shitposts without citing any source.his sources are mainly as follows:
> 
> View attachment 851772



7 is not enough, hope they send more (Although I don't think the UK had that many M270 MLRS to begin with) 

The good number would be at least 2 regiment worth. Or 4 if they can to do both Kupiansk and Sieverodonetsk, but to change the tempo, well, you probably need to have 10-14 regiment of MLRS. 3 for each front (Kherson, Kharkiv, Kupiansk, Sieverodonetsk) with 1 reserve each. But probably that would be too much to ask...

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## Viet

RescueRanger said:


> 3 units as per BBC World Service - plus the 4 the US are sending. It all adds to Ukrainian capacity.
> 
> 
> This Sirius report twitter handle just posts shitposts without citing any source.his sources are mainly as follows:
> 
> View attachment 851772


I think that’s fair Mods should demand posters to give original sources or least links to citations. There are lots of disinformation.

@LeGenD

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## ZeGerman

Viet said:


> Fake news
> Der Bundesnachrichtendienst is a secret service, will never say such thing, least in public.


I checked and this one seems to add up:








Russia could soon ‘break’ Ukraine’s defenses – Spiegel


Germany’s spy agency has warned that Russian troops could seize all of the Donbass within four or five weeks, the news outlet reports Russian troops could soon wrest the remainder of the Donbass region from Ukraine’s forces, Germany’s foreign intelligence agency, the BND, has warned, according...




thepressunited.com





However they are misrepresenting it.
First they mostly talk about the donbass defences. (Though if they collapse there russia can dig in and dislodging it will be extremely difficult) 
Secondly. Most intelligence services were greatly underestimating ukranian fighting resolve. 
Thirdly, it is also an internal piece to push for heavier arms from germany. 
Fourth. These arms are now given (tanks and mobile artillery now reaching frontlines) which makes their estimated “fear” slightly outdated. 

However, still a critical time for donbass thats for sure. The russian artillery was hammering the ukranians. Hopefully the tide is turning and the worst of that is over. 

I am mildly positive seeing the lack of breakthroughs, seeing the fronts mostly holding, seeing counterbattery fire and counter attacks. Increasingly with western weapons.


----------



## RescueRanger

Viet said:


> I think that’s fair Mods should demand posters to give original sources or least links to citations. There are lots of disinformation.
> 
> @LeGenD


Agreed. Twitter is full of fake news.

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## jhungary

ZeGerman said:


> I checked and this one seems to add up:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia could soon ‘break’ Ukraine’s defenses – Spiegel
> 
> 
> Germany’s spy agency has warned that Russian troops could seize all of the Donbass within four or five weeks, the news outlet reports Russian troops could soon wrest the remainder of the Donbass region from Ukraine’s forces, Germany’s foreign intelligence agency, the BND, has warned, according...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thepressunited.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However they are misrepresenting it.
> First they mostly talk about the donbass defences. (Though if they collapse there russia can dig in and dislodging it will be extremely difficult)
> Secondly. Most intelligence services were greatly underestimating ukranian fighting resolve.
> Thirdly, it is also an internal piece to push for heavier arms from germany.
> Fourth. These arms are now given (tanks and mobile artillery now reaching frontlines) which makes their estimated “fear” slightly outdated.
> 
> However, still a critical time for donbass thats for sure. The russian artillery was hammering the ukranians. Hopefully the tide is turning and the worst of that is over.
> 
> I am mildly positive seeing the lack of breakthroughs, seeing the fronts mostly holding, seeing counterbattery fire and counter attacks. Increasingly with western weapons.


It depends on when is this assessment made. 

Ukraine only counter attacked 3 days ago, if an intelligence assessment come thru BEFORE that, the situation is really kind of grim because Russia took roughly 80% of Sieverodonetsk on the first 4 days (May 27-June 1) and IIRC even MI6 Brief said Sieverodonetsk is going to fall within weeks. But then the counter attack started around June 2 and Ukrainian took back a lot of ground, this is going to change the matrix and made whatever made before June 1 invalid. 

As for the overall situation, it's hard to tell, strangely, it's not Sieverodonetsk that hold the keys to how long can Ukraine defend made a stance there, but rather it would be on whether or not Russia can break thru from Lyman and threaten Lysychansk or whether or not Russia can take T1302 - Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway. If neither were taken, Ukrainian can feed Sieverodonetsk almost indefinitely (Depends on how far would the Ukrainian want to commit to the fight) If either objective is taken by Russia, then it will be threaten rear area of Lysychansk and the Ukrainian would need to consider to withdraw in order to preserve its force. 

But either option is weeks, if not months away from needing to be made.

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## Apollon

Gotta love Ukraine sense gor humor.

This general was nr. 11 killed yesterday










Ukraine says he got demilitarized and denazified xD


@Vergennes @Foinikas @Han Patriot



ZeGerman said:


> I checked and this one seems to add up:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia could soon ‘break’ Ukraine’s defenses – Spiegel
> 
> 
> Germany’s spy agency has warned that Russian troops could seize all of the Donbass within four or five weeks, the news outlet reports Russian troops could soon wrest the remainder of the Donbass region from Ukraine’s forces, Germany’s foreign intelligence agency, the BND, has warned, according...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thepressunited.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However they are misrepresenting it.
> First they mostly talk about the donbass defences. (Though if they collapse there russia can dig in and dislodging it will be extremely difficult)
> Secondly. Most intelligence services were greatly underestimating ukranian fighting resolve.
> Thirdly, it is also an internal piece to push for heavier arms from germany.
> Fourth. These arms are now given (tanks and mobile artillery now reaching frontlines) which makes their estimated “fear” slightly outdated.
> 
> However, still a critical time for donbass thats for sure. The russian artillery was hammering the ukranians. Hopefully the tide is turning and the worst of that is over.
> 
> I am mildly positive seeing the lack of breakthroughs, seeing the fronts mostly holding, seeing counterbattery fire and counter attacks. Increasingly with western weapons.



Keep in mind the BND is as informed as the local rabbit breeder association. Its not a real secret service. When Russia attacked in 24th february the BND leader was in Kiew unaware whats going on and had to be evacuated.

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## Viet

ZeGerman said:


> I checked and this one seems to add up:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia could soon ‘break’ Ukraine’s defenses – Spiegel
> 
> 
> Germany’s spy agency has warned that Russian troops could seize all of the Donbass within four or five weeks, the news outlet reports Russian troops could soon wrest the remainder of the Donbass region from Ukraine’s forces, Germany’s foreign intelligence agency, the BND, has warned, according...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thepressunited.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However they are misrepresenting it.
> First they mostly talk about the donbass defences. (Though if they collapse there russia can dig in and dislodging it will be extremely difficult)
> Secondly. Most intelligence services were greatly underestimating ukranian fighting resolve.
> Thirdly, it is also an internal piece to push for heavier arms from germany.
> Fourth. These arms are now given (tanks and mobile artillery now reaching frontlines) which makes their estimated “fear” slightly outdated.
> 
> However, still a critical time for donbass thats for sure. The russian artillery was hammering the ukranians. Hopefully the tide is turning and the worst of that is over.
> 
> I am mildly positive seeing the lack of breakthroughs, seeing the fronts mostly holding, seeing counterbattery fire and counter attacks. Increasingly with western weapons.


Ok assuming the report is correct then only concerning of the Donbas. Well, everything can happen. Ukraine defense can fall apart within 4-5 weeks. Or Putin can fall off the balcony and the war ends. Prior the war the secret services BND, CIA, FSB had expected Ukraine would surrender with a week.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533700281686687744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533700850232827904

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533684922254249984


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533708928877572096

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## The SC

*British Defense: fierce battles in Donbass and Russian forces are advancing*
@AlArabiya_Brk

*Urgent | British intelligence: Russian forces targeted the railway infrastructure in the Ukrainian capital, Kyiv, in the early hours of Sunday*
@AlainBRK

*Urgent | British intelligence: Russian forces continue to advance towards the city of Sloviansk as part of their attempt to encircle Ukrainian forces in Donbass*
@AlainBRK

*Ukraine admits that its forces have retreated in the city of Severodonetsk*
@SkyNewsArabia_B

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533551371693309959

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533473515009200129

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533557382734917633

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533555271225819137

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533491722373632000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533545138558906368





This is what is left of the Kramatorsk Mining Factory, which was used as a warehouse for ammunition and military equipment sent by the West to the regime in Kyiv, and the factory was also restoring and repairing broken Ukrainian military equipment.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533500776194183171

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## gambit

Anyone who served would understand this vid well, so this is for those who never served but want to understand how could the Russian military performed so poorly. It is one hr long and contains many details so best watch uninterrupted.

Finally, the title could also be 'How Corruption Destroys Armies - Theft, Graft, and China failure over Taiwan'.

Reactions: Positive Rating Positive Rating:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533481687715352576

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Vergennes

Another one coming back home in a trashbag


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533544503864283136

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## kingQamaR

They've got a range of 50 miles. 100% they will be used against Russia-based targets sometime soon, escalating the war and possibly drawing the supplier (ie us) into the war. Hope kiev been given strict terms and conditions on the missile launcher s


----------



## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> They've got a range of 50 miles. 100% they will be used against Russia-based targets sometime soon, escalating the war and possibly drawing the supplier (ie us) into the war. Hope kiev been given strict terms and conditions on the missile launcher s


Well, it's a hot war, so pretty sure any target inside Ukraine are clear to shoot. 

As for inside Russia, I seems to remember UK once said a month ago that Ukraine could go after weapon and supply inside Russia. That's fair game, but whether or not using UK MLRS to do it is another question.


----------



## zartosht

Raffie said:


> Frankly, I received an €200 and an €100 energy check from our govt, it fully covered the warming of my house last winter, thanks to the isolation job I did!!!
> I see no increase in food prices at LIDL or Aldi, I like Aldi a lot since everything is de-branded products : you get all the Gervais, Danone, Bel stuff for about half the usual price. De-branding is a typical EU feature due to the CAP-induced over production : Rather than only selling under their most advertised brand names which target high-end shops, all the over-production is rebranded, e.g. the Vache-qui-Rit box gets a "Paturon" sticker which is sold to hard-discount super-markets...
> In the end, they even make more money at selling the rebrands on the hard discount market and the poor gets great quality food too...
> 
> The only thing on the heavy side is the price of gasoline... For sure, at €1.88-2.02 per L of Super-95 instead of €1.15 one year ago, it causes issues if you drive a lot, but... Maybe time to consider electric/hybrid cars????
> Without all these ugly states that sponsor terrorism to protect their fossil energy sales, we'd all have nuclear-propelled cars for long...
> Moreover, with fast-breeders, nuke is a renewable energy...
> 
> 
> Funny fact : this convicted ex-Italian PM was also the greatest friend in the EU for... Benyamin Netanyahu
> Actually, Berlusconi also advocated Israel's entry in the EU
> Well, to be frank, it would be a great idea: it would piss off all racists and the start-up nation would be a wonderful add to the EU, and I have a bit enough that we're always the only ones doing EU's "dirty" [military] job, moreover, they're also a significant nuke power. Same with Ukraine's entry : we'd have a nice kickass quartet with Israel, Ukraine, Greece and France and it'd drive dudes like you totally insane... You're a rare case : more than 80% of Iranian people are pro-west and pro-Israel, the others gets the benefits from the illegitimate tyranny that runs the country since 1979...
> 
> Now, I'm surprised Berlusconi wasn't friend with Khamenei as he likes a lot rooked politicians! In terms of embezzlement and stealing his people's money, Khamenei is world's #2 after Putin with an about $95 billions wealth



Your really really struggling to cope arent you? 

80% Iranians pro israel? Ok zionist if you say so. 

Radio Raffie facts:

-Munich economy bigger then Russia
-80% of Iranians are pro israel
-Putin and khamenei richest men on earth
-Ukraine on the cusp of glorious victory
-Russians were supposed to run out of soldiers, food and ammo 100 days ago
-unicorns are real, and an army of them are assembling with murican wunderwaff himars to counter attack Russia back to Siberia…


Anything i miss?



ZeGerman said:


> Hats off for the amazing rely. Now i will wait zartosh to either ignore it completely, or respond with even more conspiracy theories and unfunded blame



Amazing reply? Let me guess you just be a shitstream media consumer?

The western echo chamber propaganda might be able to fool their own people into believing anything. Like literally gender no longer exists and anyone defying this gets cancelled jk rowling style/ lose their jobs

Unfortunately for you and your delusional type, western propaganda cannot win wars , cannot bring down inflation and cannot create energy out of hot air coming from your woke politicians rear end

If Hitler was alive today, he would ally germany with Russia. And would fulfill his promise to send the americans back to the sea (where they belonng) and liberate europe. 

Nobody even takes euros seriously anymore. Your politicians are laughed at. If they want to negotiate, they talk to yoyr american bosses.

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## Elvin

Yea Ukraine is 100% within their rights to strike any location in the Russian Federation.

Also - This thread has turned into a garbage can with soo much baseless propaganda. Mods should clean this stuff up.


----------



## Muhammed45




----------



## _Nabil_

Russian economic collapse.....









S.Korean Companies Ready To Buy Foreign Businesses Leaving Russia - Prominent Entrepreneur - UrduPoint


South Korean companies have no intention of leaving the Russian markets and even consider expansion opportunities through acquisition of US and Japanese businesses that have left the country, Kim Yun Sik, the CEO of South Korean construction and mining company Shindong Enercom, told Sputnik on...




www.urdupoint.com

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## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> Well, it's a hot war, so pretty sure any target inside Ukraine are clear to shoot.
> 
> As for inside Russia, I seems to remember UK once said a month ago that Ukraine could go after weapon and supply inside Russia. That's fair game, but whether or not using UK MLRS to do it is another question.



I'm not sure what weapons can be sent to Ukraine that can't hit Russia; In many places Ukraine controls territory right up to the Russian border; I could throw a stone in to Russia


----------



## SalarHaqq

Countering NATO-zionist propaganda about supermarket shelves in Russia being empty as a result of sanctions - a claim made lately by some western media: see footage of fully packed supermarkets, even in small Russian villages. This is while in numerous western countries, inflation has reached post-WW2 record levels, gas prices are going through the roof and shortages of some essential commodities like dry baby milk have been noticed.






Clearly, western sanctions have not just failed to reach their aims but moreover they've backfired big time. Beautiful.

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> I'm not sure what weapons can be sent to Ukraine that can't hit Russia; In many places Ukraine controls territory right up to the Russian border; I could throw a stone in to Russia


I was saying whether or not UK allow the Ukrainian to use the MLRS they donate to hit target inside Russia is a different issue, Of course anything with range can technically be used to hit Russia.


----------



## SalarHaqq

The rest of the world is no longer following western imperialists in their destabilization policies against free nations. Lovely.

_____
 
Analysis​The West vs. the Rest​Welcome to the 21st-century Cold War.​*By Angela Stent, a nonresident senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and the author of *_*Putin’s World: Russia Against the West and With the Rest. *_









The West vs. the Rest


Welcome to the 21st-century Cold War.




foreignpolicy.com

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533776814035943424


----------



## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533776814035943424


Talked to one of the OG 82d guy who jumped into Saint Marie DuMont, man, night jump, with heavy AA and seeing plane left and right go down on you, I can't imagine anything harder to do or can ever out-do, when I myself was in 82d Airborne.

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## Wood

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/v60t1s

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Apollon

zartosht said:


> Your really really struggling to cope arent you?
> 
> 80% Iranians pro israel? Ok zionist if you say so.
> 
> Radio Raffie facts:
> 
> -Munich economy bigger then Russia
> -80% of Iranians are pro israel
> -Putin and khamenei richest men on earth
> -Ukraine on the cusp of glorious victory
> -Russians were supposed to run out of soldiers, food and ammo 100 days ago
> -unicorns are real, and an army of them are assembling with murican wunderwaff himars to counter attack Russia back to Siberia…
> 
> 
> Anything i miss?
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing reply? Let me guess you just be a shitstream media consumer?
> 
> The western echo chamber propaganda might be able to fool their own people into believing anything. Like literally gender no longer exists and anyone defying this gets cancelled jk rowling style/ lose their jobs
> 
> Unfortunately for you and your delusional type, western propaganda cannot win wars , cannot bring down inflation and cannot create energy out of hot air coming from your woke politicians rear end
> 
> If Hitler was alive today, he would ally germany with Russia. And would fulfill his promise to send the americans back to the sea (where they belonng) and liberate europe.
> 
> Nobody even takes euros seriously anymore. Your politicians are laughed at. If they want to negotiate, they talk to yoyr american bosses.



We crushed Hitler, we crush Putin.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533784292517617665


----------



## Apollon

SalarHaqq said:


> The rest of the world is no longer following western imperialists in their destabilization policies against free nations. Lovely.
> 
> _____
> 
> Analysis​The West vs. the Rest​Welcome to the 21st-century Cold War.​*By Angela Stent, a nonresident senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and the author of *_*Putin’s World: Russia Against the West and With the Rest. *_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The West vs. the Rest
> 
> 
> Welcome to the 21st-century Cold War.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> foreignpolicy.com



The rest is simple shitholes amigo.


----------



## Paul2

Russia suddenly tried to push from Izyum again.

1 battalion or less.

Force recon suspected.


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Russia suddenly tried to push from Izyum again.
> 
> 1 battalion or less.
> 
> Force recon suspected.


They have been trying for weeks now. Think they tried to break out 8 times now. 

ISW reported a few days ago Russia is flowing in reinforcement from Belgorod into Izyum. More likely than not that is a diversion to relief pressure in Sieverodonetsk.


----------



## wahhab0202

Apollon said:


> We crushed Hitler, we crush Putin.


Some people with knowledge don't agree with you. Let's see the if they are right.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533828644686090240

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## jamahir

Vergennes said:


> BTW this is funny you are cheering Kadyrov and his men who sold their souls and @ss to Putin. Real chechens are turning into their graves knowing what Kadyrov and his puppets are doing considering the suffering Russia has brought to the Chechen people.



"Real Chechens" like the Dzhokar Dudayev Battalions aligning itself with the UkroNazis ? 


> Ukraine – In 1996, a street in Lviv was named _вулиця Джохара Дудаєва_ (Dzhokhar Dudayev Street), later followed by a street in Ivano-Frankivsk[29][30] and a street in Khmelnytskyi.[31] In the War in Donbass, that started in the spring of 2014, a pro-Ukrainian volunteer battalion was named after Dudayev, led by former Chechen General Isa Munayev.


And this is a section from this article I posted in another thread about one and half hours ago :


> *Maidan of Hate*​With the return of the nationalists to Ukraine’s political scene, after the Soviet collapse, the violence resumed as well. The existence of torture rooms in Kiev City Hall, which was seized by ‘peaceful protesters’ at the end of 2013, has been reported.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-government protesters clash with police in Independence Square on February 19, 2014 in Kiev, Ukraine. © Alexander Koerner / Getty Images
> 
> A lot of video footage from the ‘Revolution of Dignity’ has been preserved showing the bullying captured police officers suffered at the hands of ‘peaceful protesters’. Some doctors working` on the Maidan had to protect wounded officers that had been captured from being massacred. Shots from the Hromadske.tv TV channel also captured a Maidan medic categorically prohibiting people from calling an ambulance for a policeman who had lost an eye on the grounds that he served in the Berkut special unit, which was trying to suppress the uprising.
> 
> Here is how Kiev journalist Sergey Rulev describes his experience in the torture chamber:_ “Four people beat me. There was a woman in a headscarf with them, who kicked me in the groin without saying a word. Then they dragged me to the occupied Ministry of Agriculture, where they searched me, took away my documents, a press pass, accreditation to the Verkhovna Rada, business cards, two phones, and two cameras. When they dragged me back to Khreshchatyk, I started screaming and calling for help. I fell to the ground and was kicked again, but no one reacted. At about 12:00, I was dragged into the burned-out House of Trade Unions. In the lobby, I was immediately beaten up. In the courtyard, unknown people in camouflage fatigues bound my hands, stripped me to my underwear, and continued to beat me… After that, the four of them pinned me to the floor, injected something into my arm again, and said, ‘Now you’re going to talk to us, bitch! Which special services do you work for?’”_
> 
> Once he was tied up, an unknown woman began to rip out Sergey’s nails with pliers. Subsequently, he identified this sadist as Amina Okuyeva, a medic in the ‘8th hundred’ Maidan Self-Defense unit, who later fought in the ‘ATO (Anti-Terrorist Operation) Zone’ as part of the neo-Nazi Kiev-2 and Dzhokhar Dudayev Battalions. She was awarded the title People’s Hero of Ukraine for her efforts.


So we have two types of Chechens in Ukraine - the sensible and brave ones supporting the Russian military and the evil ones supporting the NATO-supported Zelensky, Azov, Aidar etc. Same goes for the Syrian battlefields, there Russia-supporting Chechens supporting Russia and Syria against again the NATO-supported Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood.

@Hassan Al-Somal

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## SalarHaqq

Apollon said:


> The rest is simple shitholes amigo.



Again, the rest of the world differs. An isolated west, and the opinion of those still believing in its relevance, tend to no longer matter to some 85% of humans.

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## ZeGerman

The rest of the world is no longer following western imperialists in their destabilization policies against free nations. Lovely.


SalarHaqq said:


> _____
> 
> Analysis​The West vs. the Rest​Welcome to the 21st-century Cold War.​*By Angela Stent, a nonresident senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and the author of *_*Putin’s World: Russia Against the West and With the Rest. *_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The West vs. the Rest
> 
> 
> Welcome to the 21st-century Cold War.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> foreignpolicy.com


i dont expect some asian muslim who grew up on anti-west propaganda to understand europeans having decades of historical knowledge and experience of russian destabilization policies. 

I mean, the russian invasion of a sovereign nation (ukraine) is kind of the epitome of the politics you are supposedly so morally inclined against you hypocrite

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533839976563101696

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533852572934713346

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## Apollon

wahhab0202 said:


> Some people with knowledge don't agree with you. Let's see the if they are right.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533828644686090240


Knowledge? German secret servive did not predict a russian attack. Their leader was even trapped in Kiew and had to be evacuated. The same organisation then believed Ukraine loses in 3 to 4 days. 


So far its always and in evry case the exact oppossite of what Germany predicts



SalarHaqq said:


> Again, the rest of the world differs. An isolated west, and the opinion of those still believing in its relevance, tend to no longer matter to some 85% of humans.



The west is the people who matter. Its bit like on the Titanic buddy. 1st class takes it all. 


Greetings down to you to the boiler room.

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## nufix

Apollon said:


> Knowledge? German secret servive did not predict a russian attack. Their leader was even trapped in Kiew and had to be evacuated. The same organisation then believed Ukraine loses in 3 to 4 days.
> 
> 
> So far its always and in evry case the exact oppossite of what Germany predicts
> 
> 
> 
> The west is the people who matter. Its bit like on the Titanic buddy. 1st class takes it all.
> 
> 
> Greetings down to you to the boiler room.



Why are you sending greetings to the boiler room? You are there as well. By modern definition of the word „western world“, Greece and greeks are hardly western. Related, but not certainly „The West“. 

Some even classify Greece and greeks to be in the same boat as none other than Russians. 









Western world - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org

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## Apollon

nufix said:


> Why are you sending greetings to the boiler room? You are there as well. By modern definition of the word „western world“, Greece and greeks are hardly western. Related, but not certainly „The West“.
> 
> Some even classify Greece and greeks to be in the same boat as none other than Russians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Western world - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org



Your own link says Greece is the very foundation of the West. 

And im certainly not in the boiler room. How many here can afford antarctice cruise with Hurtigruten?


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## ZeGerman

Also….why is everyone acting like the “rest of the world” stands with russia?

Only the likes of north korea, syria, eritrea were supporting russia in the UN. 

Then there are those who like to stay “neutral”/withhold from voting
And more stating their opposition but not going as far as to join the sanctions (some with weak economy or across the world).


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## nufix

Apollon said:


> Your own link says Greece is the very foundation of the West.
> 
> And im certainly not in the boiler room. How many here can afford antarctice cruise with Hurtigruten?



Foundation of the west, but not the West as we know it today. As I said, Greece and Greeks are hardly The West by the modern definition of that term. Look at the maps will ya.

You belong in the boiler room, you just feel you can afford it because people in the first class felt generous enough to take you with them, mostly as servant to their interest though…

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## Soldier35

The fiery inquisitor of Russia TOS-1A "Solntsepyok" is already in Ukraine. The Russian Ministry of Defense showed the work of TOS-1A "Solntsepyok" in Ukraine. The TOS-1A heavy flamethrower system is rightfully considered one of the deadliest weapons of the Russian army. The weapon is truly terrible as 24 rockets with a caliber of 220 mm. literally burn everything around. The thermobaric mixture of projectiles creates a cloud of explosive mixture and then undermines it. After detonation, the pressure rises sharply and then drops, the pressure drop leads to a guaranteed death of the enemy over an area of up to 40,000 square meters.






The air defense of the Ukrainian army shot down its Su-27P aircraft, aircraft number 38, belonged to the 9th brigade, based in Ozerny, Zhytomyr region. Earlier, the Ukrainian media claimed that a Russian plane was shot down, the situation cleared up when eyewitnesses photographed the wreckage of the plane.

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## Apollon

nufix said:


> Foundation of the west, but not the West as we know it today. As I said, Greece and Greeks are hardly The West by the modern definition of that term. Look at the maps will ya.
> 
> You belong in the boiler room, you just feel you can afford it because people in the first class felt generous enough to take you with them, mostly as servant to their interest though…



EU and USA are the West. Greece is in EU, aka West.


That said, i decide where i belong to.


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## nufix

Apollon said:


> EU and USA are the West. Greece is in EU, aka West.
> 
> 
> That said, i decide where i belong to.



If you say so. 

You might want to check your Greece-ness just in case. Who knows if you are part turkish, part slavic or even Arab since Greeks had been part somebody else‘s „world“ for thousands of years. I meant you were part of the Islamic world as well until the start of the 20th century. Any „West-ness“ in Greek is basically a recent attempt to bandwagon the EU because it was Greece that joined the modern „West“, not the other way around.

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## Viet

Soldier35 said:


> The fiery inquisitor of Russia TOS-1A "Solntsepyok" is already in Ukraine. The Russian Ministry of Defense showed the work of TOS-1A "Solntsepyok" in Ukraine. The TOS-1A heavy flamethrower system is rightfully considered one of the deadliest weapons of the Russian army. The weapon is truly terrible as 24 rockets with a caliber of 220 mm. literally burn everything around. The thermobaric mixture of projectiles creates a cloud of explosive mixture and then undermines it. After detonation, the pressure rises sharply and then drops, the pressure drop leads to a guaranteed death of the enemy over an area of up to 40,000 square meters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The air defense of the Ukrainian army shot down its Su-27P aircraft, aircraft number 38, belonged to the 9th brigade, based in Ozerny, Zhytomyr region. Earlier, the Ukrainian media claimed that a Russian plane was shot down, the situation cleared up when eyewitnesses photographed the wreckage of the plane.


Interesting
Microsoft introduces new OS “windows 11” with new features. Russia introduces new thermo weapon to burn people.
George Maas, the former domestic spy agency of Germany, says weapons and military are the pride of Russia. Because there are nothing else they are proud of Russia celebrates every year bombastic the victory over Germany although this war was long over ago. Putin can’t afford to lose the war. Losing the war in Ukraine is a catastrophic event for Russia, and for him.


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## Bilal.

Viet said:


> Interesting
> Microsoft introduces new OS “windows 11” with new features. Russia introduces new thermo weapon to burn people.
> George Maas, the former domestic spy agency of Germany, says weapons and military are the pride of Russia. Because there are nothing else they are proud of Russia celebrates every year bombastic the victory over Germany although this war was long over ago. Putin can’t afford to lose the war. Losing the war in Ukraine is a catastrophic event for Russia, and for him.


How many Vietnamese got burnt to crisp by napalm bombs?

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## Viet

Bilal. said:


> How many Vietnamese got burnt to crisp by napalm bombs?


The city where I live in Germany was bombed by allied bombers to ground. No many were survived. Do you know what differs human from animal? Animal knows no revenge no hatred. We move on. I am not saying revenge is unnecessary. Sometimes it’s useful.


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## SalarHaqq

ZeGerman said:


> i dont expect some asian muslim who grew up on anti-west propaganda to understand europeans having decades of historical knowledge and experience of russian destabilization policies.



If you think a non-European cannot be familiar with the history of Europe nor understand contemporary international dynamics, then please keep believing that. Also, the fact is that I partly grew up on western propaganda - only that I managed to see through it very early on.



ZeGerman said:


> I mean, the russian invasion of a sovereign nation (ukraine) is kind of the epitome of the politics you are supposedly so morally inclined against you hypocrite



Oh wow, an ad hominem. That was quick. Well no, it's not. The quoted assessment is covering up years of western destabilization of Ukraine. Namely, two Soros-funded "colored revolutions", systematic antagonizing of Russia by the current post-"Maidan" regime in Kiev, ongoing oppression of Russian-speakers in the country, violation of the Minsk agreements, all on behalf of NATO and the zionists. It's clear what side initiated this whole crisis.

As for international law, it seems to me that Washington's illegal invasion of Iraq by in 2003 preceded any significant Russian military intervention. The one who tramples core rules under foot is setting a precedent. Afterwards they shouldn't come protesting if others wish to enjoy the same luxury.

Then, Russia never pursued a deliberate policy of destabilizing nation-states and entire regions, unlike the US regime and its vassals. I didn't come across any Russian policymakers or think tank pundits drooling over concepts such as "constructive chaos" and embarking on a serial undermining of the social fabric of nations like the zio-American empire has been doing since 2001 (primarily in West Asia and North Africa). Note: tearing apart the social fabric of a nation is not the same as annexing land - it's a different pair of shoes, and quite unparalleled in monstruosity.

_____



Apollon said:


> The west is the people who matter. Its bit like on the Titanic buddy. 1st class takes it all.



The west is going under before everyone's eyes. It's a decaying, decadent, defeated, out of steam and increasingly irrelevant handful of totalitatian, warmongering regimes. Nobody's going to shed a tear when they're confined to the trash can of history, the sooner the better.

Already, westerners per se are a quickly vanishing breed. Courtesy of their own globalist elites, who've relentlessly been promoting mass immigration and inter-ethnic mixing for decades. Result: 25% of "Germans" are of foreign descent. 26% in Sweden - where population growth is driven to 98,8% by people with foreign backgrounds. Nice perspectives on the horizon for the "west".

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533923134545469441
corruption


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## SalarHaqq



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## Madni Bappa

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533923134545469441
> corruption


Where do I send donation for Russia?? Twll me I'll do it now

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533923553766154242

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## Madni Bappa

Apollon said:


> Knowledge? German secret servive did not predict a russian attack. Their leader was even trapped in Kiew and had to be evacuated. The same organisation then believed Ukraine loses in 3 to 4 days.
> 
> 
> So far its always and in evry case the exact oppossite of what Germany predicts
> 
> 
> 
> The west is the people who matter. Its bit like on the Titanic buddy. 1st class takes it all.
> 
> 
> Greetings down to you to the boiler room.







Is this you Chandu?
Or is it Pandey G??

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## Elvin

Russia decalred war on Ukraine, therefore Ukraine is within its rights to strike Russian military targets in Russia


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## wahhab0202

Madni Bappa said:


> Where do I send donation for Russia?? Twll me I'll do it now


Why would donate your money for Russian brother? Their coffers are full now. Their earning from oil and gas sales higher than ever and at the same time they are a little problem with buying stuff from the outside. They have (more than) enough food, fuel and basic daily needs at home. Nothing they desperately need from the outside world right now.

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## wahhab0202

Is Russia willing to take concessions offered to her by western powers??

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533908724418486276


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## The SC

#Ukraine announces that Russian forces have stormed the city of Severodonetsk from all sides as street war continues

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533909171082510337
Ukrainian Defense to Al-Arabiya: If Putin is not stopped in Ukraine, all countries in the region are threatened

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533879279775322115

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533743950418399235

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531329598474043392

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533907547740053504
Russia threatens to bomb decision-making centers in Ukraine

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533879822795128836

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533800327807385600


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533808292409008129

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533864283016155136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533867154419884033

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533870455760764929

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533866074952847360

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## The SC

Official M270 MLRS with 80 km range

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533729024710692866
Lavrov: The West has become "barbaric" in its behavior that proves that the Russian special operation was the right decision

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533760144890372096

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## jhungary

The SC said:


> #Ukraine announces that Russian forces have stormed the city of Severodonetsk from all sides as street war continues
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533909171082510337
> Ukrainian Defense to Al-Arabiya: If Putin is not stopped in Ukraine, all countries in the region are threatened
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533879279775322115
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533743950418399235


Duh, or do you expect Russia to say "Oh, they fight back, let's retreat and not take Sieverodonetsk anymore?"

The key is not whether or not Russia attack or even capture Sieverodonetsk, the key for urban fighting is to grind down your force so you keep pouring resource on them and make you vulnerable elsewhere. As I said before, if Russia by-pass Sieverodonetsk and progress South and West, they probably would have taken more ground than to a grinding halt in Sieverodonetsk.


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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 6​Jun 6, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF

*Karolina Hird, Mason Clark, and George Barros
June 6, 7:15 pm ET*​*Click here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
The nature of urban combat in Severodonetsk is likely obfuscating reports of control of terrain within the city, though Russian forces likely retain control over much of the city. *Head of the Luhansk Regional State Administration Serhiy Haidai claimed on June 5 that Ukrainian forces managed to retake large parts of Severodonetsk and push Russian forces to the outskirts of the city during successful urban counterattacks.[1] Ukrainian journalist Yuri Butusov, however, denied Haidai’s claims on June 5 and claimed that Ukrainian forces only control the Azot industrial sector of Severodonetsk. Haidai amended his claims on June 6 and reported that the situation in Severodonetsk has deteriorated significantly, adding that Ukrainian forces were indeed fighting within the Azot industrial site on June 6.[2] The reason for Haidai and Butusov’s conflicting reports is unclear, and heavy urban fighting is ongoing in the city.
*Ukrainian naval forces are challenging Russian dominance over the northwestern part of the Black Sea and claimed to be preventing Russian warships from operating close to the shoreline. *The Ukrainian Navy reported on June 6 that they had succeeded in pushing a grouping of the Russian Black Sea Fleet more than 100 km away from the Ukrainian coast but did not specify a timeframe for this statement.[3] The report additionally stated that Russian naval forces have subsequently had to change their tactics in the Black Sea and are relying more heavily on Bal and Bastion coastal defense systems in occupied Kherson and Crimea rather than seaborne air defenses. The UK Ministry of Defense claimed that Russian forces have been strengthening their air defense assets on Snake Island, and the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense reported that Russian forces deployed additional S-300 air defense battalions to Crimea.[4] Taken together, these reports suggest that Ukrainian naval pressure and anti-ship missiles—likely including those provided by the UK and other states—have forced the Russian grouping in the northwestern Black Sea to rely more on coastal and air defense as they are pushed away from the Ukrainian shoreline. Ukraine will likely attempt to leverage these successes to alleviate the economic pressure of the Russian blockade on Ukraine’s ports and seek additional economic support from the west, including possibly opening up new routes for international aid to Ukraine.
*Key Takeaways*

Russian forces likely retain control over most of Severodonetsk as of June 6, though the exact situation in the city remains unclear. Control of terrain is likely changing hands frequently.
Russian forces in the Izyum area did not make any confirmed advances, while forces advancing west from Lyman secured minor gains.
Russian forces continued unsuccessful attempts to sever Ukrainian lines of communication northeast of Bakhmut.
Limited and localized Ukrainian counterattacks on June 5 forced Russian troops to focus on holding defensive lines north of Kharkiv City on June 6.
Russian occupation authorities are advancing efforts to issue Russian passports to Ukrainian citizens and cement their control over occupied territories.
The Ukrainian Navy claimed to have pushed the Russian Black Sea Fleet more than 100 km from the Ukrainian coast, likely to reduce the pressure of the Russian blockade on Ukraine’s southern ports.
* 


We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate main effort- Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
Supporting effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting effort 2—Southern Axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued attempts to advance southeast of Izyum toward Slovyansk but did not make any confirmed advances on June 6.[5] Russian State Duma Deputy Alexander Borodai reportedly traveled to Dovhenke (about 20 km south of Izyum) to storm the village with the Donbas Volunteer Union, a Russian proxy unit.[6] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces continued to assault Dovhenke unsuccessfully and that Russian forces fired on various settlements to the southwest and southeast of Izyum, including Velyka Komyshuvakha, Virnopillya, Dibrivne, Nova Dmytrivka, and Kurulka.[7] Russian forces additionally made incremental advances to the west of Lyman in Shchurove and Staryi Karavan and reportedly are “clearing” Sviatohirsk (meaning they are likely engaged in urban combat within the city) with the intention of advancing southward toward Slovyansk across the Siverskyi Donets River.[8]



Russian forces likely retain control over most of Severodonetsk as of June 6, despite Head of the Luhansk Regional State Administration Serhiy Haidai’s June 5 claims that Ukrainian counterattacks retook considerable ground and drove Russian troops to the eastern outskirts of the city.[9] Haidai issued another statement on June 6 expanding on his previous statement and said that the situation had “deteriorated” and that Ukrainian troops are fighting in the industrial zone of the Azot plant.[10] Ukrainian journalist Yuri Butusov additionally reported on June 5 that claims of Ukrainian counterattacks were untrue and that Ukrainian forces only hold the Azot plant and surrounding neighborhoods.[11] The reason for the conflicting reports on June 5 is unclear and ISW cannot independently confirm if Ukrainian forces did indeed retake large parts of Severodonetsk at the time of Haidai’s statement and subsequently lost the terrain by June 6, or if Ukrainian forces did not make these counterattacks at all. The information environment in Severodonetsk remains dynamic and control of terrain is likely changing hands frequently as Ukrainian and Russian troops are locked in close-quarters urban combat.[12] Haidai cited intercepted information that Russian forces have been tasked with completing the capture of Severodonetsk by June 10, though no other sources have reported this deadline and ISW cannot confirm it at this time.[13]
Russian forces escalated their pace of fire against Severodonetsk, Lysychansk, and the surrounding settlements of Metolkine, Borivske, Ustynivka, Toshkivka, Privillya, Zolote, Vrubivka, Hirkske, and Orikhove.[14] The Russian escalation in artillery fire in and around Severodonetsk is likely intended to support Russian operations within the city itself and interdict Ukrainian forces from effectively deploying reserves and conducting resupply efforts in areas under heavy fire.
Russian forces continued mortar, artillery, rocket, air, and ground attacks east of Bakhmut on June 6.[15] Russian troops unsuccessfully attempted to advance westwards toward Bakhmut from Bilohorivka, Komyshuvakha, Berestove, and Mykailivka with the intention of cutting across roadways to the northeast of Bakmut.[16] Territorial defense forces of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) reportedly made incremental advances in the Donetsk City-Avdiivka area and reportedly pushed Ukrainian forces away from Avdiivka, established positions in Kamyanka (5 km northeast of Avdiivka), and took control of Zelenyi Hai and Petrivske (both within 70 km southwest of Avdiivka).[17] Advances to the southwest of Avdiivka are likely intended to gain access to the H20 highway to drive northward to support operations in Avdiivka, which in turn is a likely attempt to drive up the H20 highway toward the Kramatorsk-Slovyansk area.



*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Limited and localized Ukrainian counterattacks on June 5 forced Russian troops to focus on holding defensive lines north of Kharkiv City on June 6.[18] Spokesperson for the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense Oleksandr Motuzyanyk reported that unspecified elements of the Russian 6th Combined Arms Army, Baltic Fleet, and 1st Army Corps of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) are operating in northern Kharkiv Oblast to prevent Ukrainian advances toward the Russian border.[19] A Russian Telegram channel reported that fighting is occurring in Tsupivka, Velyki Prokhody, and Ternova as a result of Ukrainian counterattacks.[20] ISW cannot confirm the current status of control of these settlements and it is likely that the frontline northeast of Kharkiv City remains highly contested. Russian forces additionally continued to fire on the Saltivka and Slobidskyi districts of Kharkiv City, Balakliya, Chuhuiv, and Cherkaska Lozova.[21]



*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces continued to hold their defensive positions and fire along the line of contact of the Southern Axis on June 6.[22] Russian forces continued combat in northwestern Kherson Oblast along the Kherson-Mykolaiv Oblast border near Vysokopillya and Kochubeivka but did not secure any confirmed advances in this area on June 6.[23] Control of positions along the Inhulets River near the Kherson-Mykolaiv border is likely still contested following a limited Ukrainian counterattack south of Davydiv Brid on May 29.[24] Russian forces are reportedly continuing to accumulate forces in eastern Zaporizhia Oblast near the border with Donetsk Oblast around Orikhiv, Huliapole, Vasylivka, and Velyka Novoselivka.[25] Russian forces additionally fired at Ukrainian positions throughout Kherson, Zaporizhia, and Mykolaiv Oblasts.[26]



*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian occupation elements continued efforts to strengthen economic, political, and social control of occupied areas. Advisor to the Mayor of Mariupol Petro Andryushchenko stated that the occupation authority in Mariupol is continuing to fail to provide basic social services and that, as a result, the city is dealing with sanitation issues and citizens do not have reliable access to food.[27]
Occupation elements additionally continue to push for “passportization” processes in occupied areas.[28] Andryushchenko claimed that Russian authorities in Novoaskovsk, a city east of Mariupol near the Russian border, have begun accepting documentation for Russian passports from citizens of Mariupol.[29] The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported that occupation authorities in Kherson Oblast are offering Ukrainians 10,000 rubles (approximately USD 163) to get a Russian passport and support an unspecified referendum (likely regarding annexation into the Russian Federation or the creation of a nominally-independent proxy republic).[30]
Russian occupation administrators are setting conditions for economic control of occupied areas. Russian forces are reportedly coercing Ukrainian farmers and entrepreneurs to set prices and conduct business in rubles.[31] The use of Russian currency as a form of control is a notable effort to integrate occupied areas into the Russian economy that will also complicate those areas’ reintegration into Ukraine.
Occupation authorities of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) are using the trials of three foreign mercenaries who were captured fighting for Ukraine to support Kremlin information campaigns.[32] Russian war reporter Evgeny Podubbny stated that the DNR Prosecutor General’s Office is trying British nationals Sean Pinner and Aiden Aslin and Moroccan national Saadun Brahim for the “commission of a crime by a group of persons,” “forcible seizure of power or forcible retention of power,” “mercenary activity,” and “training for the purpose of carrying out terrorist activities.”[33] The DNR Prosecutor General’s Office is reportedly seeking the death penalty for all three.[34] These trials are likely a response to recent (legitimate) Ukrainian war crimes trials of Russian servicemen and an attempt to consolidate informational control over the political environment in the DNR to support Kremlin narratives of a Western plot to use mercenaries to destroy the DNR and LNR, a key Kremlin disinformation campaign to justify the war.

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## The SC

jhungary said:


> Duh, or do you expect Russia to say "Oh, they fight back, let's retreat and not take Sieverodonetsk anymore?"
> 
> The key is not whether or not Russia attack or even capture Sieverodonetsk, the key for urban fighting is to grind down your force so you keep pouring resource on them and make you vulnerable elsewhere. As I said before, if Russia by-pass Sieverodonetsk and progress South and West, they probably would have taken more ground than to a grinding halt in Sieverodonetsk.



The Ukrainians are fighting back for sure.. do you expect them to hold their ground though?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533890296269897738

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533727897084567553

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531329598474043392

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533928403098906624

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## SalarHaqq

Madni Bappa said:


> Where do I send donation for Russia?? Twll me I'll do it now



As noble as your motivation is though brother, I'd advise against it if you are in a western country. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if totalitarian western regimes resorted to repressive measures against anyone donating to Russia. Also as another user said, Russia right now is registering such an amazing surplus in incomes that it doesn't depend on donations.

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## Nuclear Clown

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531329598474043392
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533907547740053504
> Russia threatens to bomb decision-making centers in Ukraine
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533879822795128836
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533800327807385600


If we give SCALP-EG AKA Storm-Shadow, MdCN and Tomahawk to Ukraine, they can bomb...




The SCALP and the MdC are so accurate that they can even enter the Kremlin by Vladolf Putler's office window to explode inside which would definitively be a great favour to humanity...
There's a SCALP's version named Apache which is absolutely great, it was created for France and Germany but Germany cancelled... It carries submunition that will dig into the runway of an airbase and explode under, creating a large vacuum inside the foundations. Each Apache demolishes about 400m of runway foundations. 6 will F-up a 2400m runway, 8 will do a 3200m and the only thing left to do is to fully rebuild... Even Moscow's main airport can be rendered unuseable...
Unlike Tomahawk, the SCALP, Apache and MdCN are stealth and cannot be jammed...
The MdCN has lesser payload but extended range, so it can even strike St.Petersburg from Ukraine.
Despite S-400, S-300, Pantsir, Tor, Buk, the powerful Nebo-M radar, the Beriev A-50 AWACS, Russian forces in Syria were unable to detect, jam or intercept the SCALP and MdCN strikes in Syria, and they knew these were coming and were they were to strike...
It's high time the west stops beating around the bush and to give Ukraine the means to give ruSSia a taste of its own medicine.



SalarHaqq said:


> As noble as your motivation is though brother, I'd advise against it if you are in a western country. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if totalitarian western regimes resorted to repressive measures against anyone donating to Russia. Also as another user said, Russia right now is registering such an amazing surplus in incomes that it doesn't depend on donations.







Who is Totalitarian?


----------



## jhungary

The SC said:


> The Ukrainians are fighting back for sure.. do you expect them to hold their ground though?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533890296269897738
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533727897084567553
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531329598474043392
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533877395127689218


As I said before (I think about a week ago), I expect them to fold, but I also expect them to take a chunk of Russian Force, making them more than likely combat ineffective after this fight. 

The problem is, there are no strategic value on Sieverodonetsk other than being the last remaining (or one of the two last remaining city in Luhansk region), there are no high ground, no railroad network, nor highway run thru the area to make it capture necessary, Russia devoted bulk of the force there when they can push somewhere, like Kherson to Mykolaiv because you have to take Mykolaiv to at least try to get to Odessa and that last port make it strategically import target. Or run south from Popasna to try to take T-1302 and flank all the way toward Ukrainian second defence line.

Effectively, any equipment and men loss taking sieverodonetsk would be for nothing on the Russian operational and strategic objective.

Reactions: Love Love:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533929828537225219

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533885463618019333

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533885458387722247

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533835281283133444


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## The SC

jhungary said:


> As I said before (I think about a week ago), I expect them to fold, but I also expect them to take a chunk of Russian Force, making them more than likely combat ineffective after this fight.
> 
> The problem is, there are no strategic value on Sieverodonetsk other than being the last remaining (or one of the two last remaining city in Luhansk region), there are no high ground, no railroad network, nor highway run thru the area to make it capture necessary, Russia devoted bulk of the force there when they can push somewhere, like Kherson to Mykolaiv because you have to take Mykolaiv to at least try to get to Odessa and that last port make it strategically import target. Or run south from Popasna to try to take T-1302 and flank all the way toward Ukrainian second defence line.
> 
> Effectively, any equipment and men loss taking sieverodonetsk would be for nothing on the Russian operational and strategic objective.


it is on a tactical level now.. and both operationally and strategically the Russian objective is to liberate the whole of the Luhansk first.. there are two important supply highways in there and a part of the Dniper river.. Odessa is just a matter of time.. the Russians are pretty close to it.. And it is believed they will take it at last.. As a professional western military.. maybe you can;t appreciate how the Russian doctrine works.. they usually go slowly but surly to get their objectives.. most of the time forcefully by the shear of their weight and firepower..

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533574293619191809

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533500454398746624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533909154150203393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533884787823353856


----------



## jhungary

The SC said:


> Maybe not on a tactical level.. but operationally and strategically the Russian objective is to liberate the whole of the Luhansk first.. there are two important supply highways in there and a part of the Dniper river.. Odessa is just a matter of time.. the Russians are pretty close to it.. And it is believed they will take it at last.. As a professional western military.. maybe you can;t appreciate how the Russian doctrine works.. they usually go slowly but surly to get their objectives.. most of the time forcefully by the shear of their weight and firepower..


That's what I am talking about, Russia goal is to liberate the ENTIRE Donbas as they claim, so, on a operational level and strategic level, they would have to have enough resource to do that (Ie you need to be able to maintain operational gain in the area in order to suppliment your strategic goal, which is to capture the entire Donbas.)

You don't do it by attacking each and every settlement in Donbas, you do it by overwhelm the Ukrainian, taken off their defence line. and encircle their troop so they lost the fight, and then you occupied the city where the Ukrainian left behind. I have studied war extensively and I have studied soviet doctrine, I know how Russian work (again, look at my sitrep post I predicted more than 70% of the event before it happened), and not a single one in modern history (which is within the last 5 to 600 years) that an army have to take every inch of the soil literally to complete their conquests. On the other hand, you don't really need to know Soviet Doctrine to know you simply cannot use 60 or so BTG to attack EVERY city in Donbas one by one. That is no way a force strong enough to do that.

You only have limited amount of attacker available for you to achieve your object, and right now, the Russian is throwing these manpower away from taking ground instead of in a grinding fight with your enemy. Sure, Russia can grind down Ukrainian in Sieverodonetsk in 3 or 4 weeks, then what? You have to go do it again and again with city after city, Lysychansk, Kramatorsk, Sloviansk, Adviika, Bakhmut, Seversk, Toresk, just to name a few, until everyone of those 2000 cities, village big and small is captured? You would probably be doing so in the next 100 years if you are doing it that way, and that is given if you have unlimited amount of manpower.

And what about Dniper river? It did not run thru or close to Donbas, that is the river that split Ukraine in Half.

And Russia is no where close to being taken Odessa, in fact, Russia is no where close to taking Mykolaiv. And the way Russia fighting, they are probably going to run out of man before they can get close to Mykolaiv, that is if Kherson itself is not taken back by Ukrainian, they are counter attacking to only 10 km away from Kherson...

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533760320656883713

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533758558462001152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533949369229234176


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533948833046138881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533929340697812993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533927545611100163

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533926153626562560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533926244500312066

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533925933899563010


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## Paul2

Very worrying developments in Ukraine talk group in Washington — a Ukrainian Telegrammer with contact with authorities.

They did a lengthy crosschecking to find out who leaks what they talk with Biden to Russians, and how are Russians are always two steps ahead contacting Biden, Macron, etc.

Jake Sullivan is a prime suspect. Small details only he been privy been picked up by Ukr dragnet in Russian media.

They are 100% certain the grain blackmail has been leaked through him.

Background check: Sullivan, and his entire extended family been knee deep in Russian lobbying for 10+ years. He had proven contact with Russian medias since at least 2013.

Every small problem Ukrainians told Biden of returns as a blackmail material through Russian go-in-betweens in Europe a week later.

And worse, another suggestion is that Sullivan works as a conduit for Russian pressure, and mindgames on Biden.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533925775925288967

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## The SC

HahaHa!




​Katyusha ​https://youtu.be/L48ZgvG-2LU?list=RDL48ZgvG-2LU​​


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533962663255937024


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533993313480675328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533973754858151938

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533945744427728897

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533898877136412673

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533898878784884736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533891289040691202

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533856382440587265


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## Apollon

nufix said:


> If you say so.
> 
> You might want to check your Greece-ness just in case. Who knows if you are part turkish, part slavic or even Arab since Greeks had been part somebody else‘s „world“ for thousands of years. I meant you were part of the Islamic world as well until the start of the 20th century. Any „West-ness“ in Greek is basically a recent attempt to bandwagon the EU because it was Greece that joined the modern „West“, not the other way around.



Im part germanic. Btw Greece was not part of islamic world at early 20th century. Maybe check your history.



SalarHaqq said:


> If you think a non-European cannot be familiar with the history of Europe nor understand contemporary international dynamics, then please keep believing that. Also, the fact is that I partly grew up on western propaganda - only that I managed to see through it very early on.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh wow, an ad hominem. That was quick. Well no, it's not. The quoted assessment is covering up years of western destabilization of Ukraine. Namely, two Soros-funded "colored revolutions", systematic antagonizing of Russia by the current post-"Maidan" regime in Kiev, ongoing oppression of Russian-speakers in the country, violation of the Minsk agreements, all on behalf of NATO and the zionists. It's clear what side initiated this whole crisis.
> 
> As for international law, it seems to me that Washington's illegal invasion of Iraq by in 2003 preceded any significant Russian military intervention. The one who tramples core rules under foot is setting a precedent. Afterwards they shouldn't come protesting if others wish to enjoy the same luxury.
> 
> Then, Russia never pursued a deliberate policy of destabilizing nation-states and entire regions, unlike the US regime and its vassals. I didn't come across any Russian policymakers or think tank pundits drooling over concepts such as "constructive chaos" and embarking on a serial undermining of the social fabric of nations like the zio-American empire has been doing since 2001 (primarily in West Asia and North Africa). Note: tearing apart the social fabric of a nation is not the same as annexing land - it's a different pair of shoes, and quite unparalleled in monstruosity.
> 
> _____
> 
> 
> 
> The west is going under before everyone's eyes. It's a decaying, decadent, defeated, out of steam and increasingly irrelevant handful of totalitatian, warmongering regimes. Nobody's going to shed a tear when they're confined to the trash can of history, the sooner the better.
> 
> Already, westerners per se are a quickly vanishing breed. Courtesy of their own globalist elites, who've relentlessly been promoting mass immigration and inter-ethnic mixing for decades. Result: 25% of "Germans" are of foreign descent. 26% in Sweden - where population growth is driven to 98,8% by people with foreign backgrounds. Nice perspectives on the horizon for the "west".



As i said, only we matter


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## kingQamaR

What’s with personal attacks ?


----------



## DF41



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## Apollon

SalarHaqq said:


> As noble as your motivation is though brother, I'd advise against it if you are in a western country. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if totalitarian western regimes resorted to repressive measures against anyone donating to Russia. Also as another user said, Russia right now is registering such an amazing surplus in incomes that it doesn't depend on donations.



You are right. I for example personally report pro russian Propaganda on Facebook to the german authorities. Its easy, one click and it gets reported. Got several according the german network controle law. 😙👍


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## kingQamaR

if Putin was just fighting the US alone the Russia army would no longer exist. Russia is fighting one far smaller far weaker country That is receiving a small supplies of arms compared to what Russia is throwing into the war and they are still losing.To be losing so many command personal is beyond compare in modern time. Unbelievable level of incompetence


----------



## SalarHaqq

Apollon said:


> You are right. I for example personally report pro russian Propaganda on Facebook to the german authorities. Its easy, one click and it gets reported. Got several according the german network controle law. 😙👍



Informed people already knew that western regimes are repressive police states relying on surveillance and denunciation. Their so-called "freedom of speech" is an underhanded hoax, and what they accuse others of (in the current German regime's case, what they used to demonize the German Democratic Republic and its Ministry of State Security (MfS or so-called "StaSi") for), they in fact practice themselves.

Thanks for the blatant self-exposure, great job.

People ought to bookmark the quoted post and whenever a NATO apologist in this thread comes up with the usual fairy tales about "freedom" and "democracy", confront them with it.



Apollon said:


> As i said, only we matter



In your self-infatuated delusions only. Not objectively in the real world. The awakening shall be all the more shocking.

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## jamahir

Viet said:


> Interesting
> Microsoft introduces new OS “windows 11” with new features. Russia introduces new thermo weapon to burn people.



LOL, is there a more militarist, war mongering, weapons-adoring entity than NATO ?



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533948833046138881



Cool music and nicely set to the firing rocketry. Can you please post the full song ? @Soldier35



SalarHaqq said:


> Everyone, bookmark the quoted post and whenever a NATO apologist in this thread comes up with the usual fairy tales about "freedom" and "democracy", confront them with it.



Done.

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## DF41

SalarHaqq said:


> People ought to bookmark the quoted post and whenever a NATO apologist in this thread comes up with the usual fairy tales about "freedom" and "democracy", confront them with it.




Much as I respect what you say, I cannot bring myself to bookmark that quoted post.

That entity is where sun and moon not shine and covered all over with crawling cockroaches.

I think I rather go enjoy my coffee and smell roses then to see the rot only he could have dug up.
Probably with cockroaches crawling all about and in it and on it.

That I will not do .

As said, I go enjoy my coffee and roses













and smell roses

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## Viet

kingQamaR said:


> if Putin was just fighting the US alone the Russia army would no longer exist. Russia is fighting one far smaller far weaker country That is receiving a small supplies of arms compared to what Russia is throwing into the war and they are still losing.To be losing so many command personal is beyond compare in modern time. Unbelievable level of incompetence


Have you seen how he treats the chief of spy agency Nariskin in public? Shoigou, Gerassimov. He treats them all like kids. Putin is much like Kim and Erdogan. He listens only to himself. To his own propaganda. No surprise the army sucks. That’s a big problem. Because he needs the army for his grand ambitions.

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## ZeGerman

SalarHaqq said:


> If you think a non-European cannot be familiar with the history of Europe nor understand contemporary international dynamics, then please keep believing that. Also, the fact is that I partly grew up on western propaganda - only that I managed to see through it very early on.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh wow, an ad hominem. That was quick. Well no, it's not. The quoted assessment is covering up years of western destabilization of Ukraine. Namely, two Soros-funded "colored revolutions", systematic antagonizing of Russia by the current post-"Maidan" regime in Kiev, ongoing oppression of Russian-speakers in the country, violation of the Minsk agreements, all on behalf of NATO and the zionists. It's clear what side initiated this whole crisis.
> 
> As for international law, it seems to me that Washington's illegal invasion of Iraq by in 2003 preceded any significant Russian military intervention. The one who tramples core rules under foot is setting a precedent. Afterwards they shouldn't come protesting if others wish to enjoy the same luxury.
> 
> Then, Russia never pursued a deliberate policy of destabilizing nation-states and entire regions, unlike the US regime and its vassals. I didn't come across any Russian policymakers or think tank pundits drooling over concepts such as "constructive chaos" and embarking on a serial undermining of the social fabric of nations like the zio-American empire has been doing since 2001 (primarily in West Asia and North Africa). Note: tearing apart the social fabric of a nation is not the same as annexing land - it's a different pair of shoes, and quite unparalleled in monstruosity.
> 
> _____
> 
> 
> 
> The west is going under before everyone's eyes. It's a decaying, decadent, defeated, out of steam and increasingly irrelevant handful of totalitatian, warmongering regimes. Nobody's going to shed a tear when they're confined to the trash can of history, the sooner the better.
> 
> Already, westerners per se are a quickly vanishing breed. Courtesy of their own globalist elites, who've relentlessly been promoting mass immigration and inter-ethnic mixing for decades. Result: 25% of "Germans" are of foreign descent.



Oh and russians poisoning the ukranian head of party, and having their puppet rip apart his election promises of closer ties to the eu is ignored mr hypocrite?
And now starting an invasion despite their vow to safeguard ukranian security and sovereignity after ukraine removed its nuclear weapons?

Good to see you only got interested in following history after being triggered in 2003 iraq invasion. You might want to read up on the long lists of invasions/destabilizations/occupations russia committed in eastern europe. And in case of ukraine genocide and population politics. In western europe we are also used to constant russian spying/meddling. They fund a lot of our nationalist parties to destabilize the EU…

And lastly…i am not a fan of the american empire either…why however do ukraine and europe have to suffer through russian agression for something america did? And then we have you supporting the russians (doing similar or worse…usa atleast did not straight up annex iraq).

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## kingQamaR

Viet said:


> Have you seen how he treats the chief of spy agency Nariskin in public? Shoigou, Gerassimov. He treats them all like kids. Putin is much like Kim and Erdogan. He listens only to himself. To his own propaganda. No surprise the army sucks. That’s a big problem. Because he needs the army for his grand ambitions.



They're not supposed to. The Russian generals are at the front because things are in a mess, and their communications are burken. When the commander is killed continuity of command and control is jeopardised

The remaining generals need to think hard and act swiftly.......the world will thank them.


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## Apollon

SalarHaqq said:


> Informed people already knew that western regimes are repressive police states relying on surveillance and denunciation. Their so-called "freedom of speech" is an underhanded hoax, and what they accuse others of (in the German regime's case, what they used to demonize the German Democratic Republic and its Ministry of State Security (StaSi) for), they in fact practice themselves.
> 
> Thanks for the blatant self-exposure, great job.
> 
> People ought to bookmark the quoted post and whenever a NATO apologist in this thread comes up with the usual fairy tales about "freedom" and "democracy", confront them with it.
> 
> 
> 
> In your self-infatuated delusions only. Not in the real world. The awakening shall be all the more shocking.



Deal with it. I accept no russian propaganda. We are at war and have the tools to target the enemies within


----------



## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> They're not supposed to. The Russian generals are at the front because things are in a mess, and their communications are burken. When the commander is killed continuity of command and control is jeopardised
> 
> The remaining generals need to think hard and act swiftly.......the world will thank them.


That show you one thing, that the Generals are micromanaging the battlefield,

Which point to 1 of the two issue.

1.) The subordinate are not to be trusted.
2.) The subordinate are not motivated enough to fight and refusing order.

There are only 1 thing and 1 thing only for any general (East or West) in the field is to kick his army into gear, normally this task is delegated by the chain of command, which mean the General will kick the Colonel butt, then the Colonel will come down and kick the Battalion Commander butt, then the Battalion Commander will kick the company commander butt and so on. If the General is in the field, it mean the general's message is not getting to the field, which other than there are a lack of communication network (which I very doubt this could happen to Russia in 21st century) the either the subordinate did not relay the order, or order is not followed at all. This is why General are on the frontline. 

The last time a US General is in the field kicking people butt is Norman Cota kicking the 28 division in to gear landing in Normandy 78 years ago to this day. Since then I don't remember any general are in the direct fire line giving order, general can be on the front but usually just touring.

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## nufix

Apollon said:


> Im part germanic. Btw Greece was not part of islamic world at early 20th century. Maybe check your history.
> 
> 
> 
> As i said, only we matter



So you are saying Greece was indeed part of the Islamic world for quite some time right? You basically admit that the concept of "The West" is fluid and Greece was not always "The West". Therefore you are not "The West" as per modern definition of the word regardless your opinion.

This should explain your situation with regards to "The West"


----------



## Apollon

nufix said:


> So you are saying Greece was indeed part of the Islamic world for quite some time right? You basically admit that the concept of "The West" is fluid and Greece was not always "The West". Therefore you are not "The West" as per modern definition of the word regardless your opinion.
> 
> This should explain your situation with regards to "The West"



Nope, even at those times Greece was in constant uproar and in the end the tool that destroyed the dominant eastern power from within. The dominant western powers saw hellenism as leading force in their roots. Greece had nothing to do with Ottoman Empire. It existed inside it like a foreign object which ultimately destroyed the ottomans.

Your video fits though. Greece was to Ottomans what Anakin Skywalker was for the Jedi. Their doom


----------



## SalarHaqq

ZeGerman said:


> Oh and russians poisoning the ukranian head of party, and having their puppet rip apart his election promises of closer ties to the eu is ignored mr hypocrite?



If you're unwilling to hold a discussion without throwing around ad hominems, I see no point in responding. For the one who resorts to such means, has already lost the debate. But let's address these talking points one more time, seeing how they're lifted out of the official doxa outlined by NATO regime mouthpieces.

First of all the person you're referring to is named Viktor Yushchenko. Since you pretend to superior knowledge of history, perhaps you'd want to fill these gaps in your narrative, but anyway.

Secondly, supposed Russian poisoning of Yushchenko in September 2004 represents a claim by western regimes and their minions - certainly not a proven hard fact. When examined closely, the story appears to be as dotted with holes as a piece of Swiss cheese. Basically like every such allegation issued by NATO and the zionists against those who refuse to submit to their imperial yoke.

As an example in July 2019, Ukraine's deputy Prosecutor-General and chief Military Prosecutor, Anatoly Matios, in a courageous move contradicted Prosecutor-General Yuri Lutsenko by declaring that investigators under his watch hadn't found the slightest evidence for poisoning.

Other Ukrainian officials observed that Yushchenko would refuse to submit to a second blood test. If the results of the initial one hadn't been doctored, what did he have to fear?

Thirdly, only two months after this affair Yushchenko started calling for protests against the announced result of the presidential election, alleging "fraud" to his detriment - a classical pretext invoked in "color revolutions". The ensuing mobilization came to be known as the "Orange revolution", a textbook "color revolution" read an inauthentic, non-spontaneous event planned, instigated and staged by NATO intelligence services, organizations controlled by Washington such as the NED (National Endowment for Democracy) as well as messianist banker oligarchs like George Soros.

More information can be found here:

https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/eng/zxxx_662805/202205/t20220507_10683090.html

And from the horse's mouth as well:

https://canadiandimension.com/artic...ecret-role-in-ukraines-2004-orange-revolution

These engineered uprisings require triggers, usually mounted in a Hollywoodesque manner so as to dupe a public already conditioned by and responsive to the brainwashing techniques typical of the American commercial film industry. And Yushchenko's supposed poisoning at the hands of "evil Russia" was the first such trigger in the build up to the fake "Orange revolution".

Of course, this represents an illegal intervention in the domestic affairs of a sovereign nation, aimed at determining its head of state from outside.

As for the story about democratically elected Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych reneging on earlier promises of improved ties with the EU:

1) Under Yanukovych's presidency, Ukraine and the EU did proceed to draft an Association Agreement in March 2012.

2) The EU however was unduly interfering in Ukraine's domestic judicial process and formulating conditions for the bilateral treaty to be finalized, namely that independent Ukrainian courts revoke their decision to detain certain politicians believed to have broken the law. Hence why the negotiations stalled.

3) Is there any concrete evidence that President Yanukovych acted on instructions from Moscow? Not every politician in Ukraine is a hysterical russophobe and willing NATO vassal.

4) Breaching election promises is a specialty of those holding office in western liberal "democracies". Cases are so plentiful and prominent I can't be bothered to expand upon them. But as someone familiar with European history as you claim, various examples should spontaneously come to your mind.



ZeGerman said:


> And now starting an invasion despite their vow to safeguard ukranian security and sovereignity after ukraine removed its nuclear weapons?



What about the fact that Ukraine had been violating the Minsk agreements for years, and targeting its Russian-speaking citizens of all people?



ZeGerman said:


> Good to see you only got interested in following history after being triggered in 2003 iraq invasion. You might want to read up on the long lists of invasions/destabilizations/occupations russia committed in eastern europe. And in case of ukraine genocide and population politics. In western europe we are also used to constant russian spying/meddling. They fund a lot of our nationalist parties to destabilize the EU…



Are you incriminating the Russian Federation for acts committed by the Russian empire in the 19th century and then by the Soviet Union? Each of which is again subject to discussion. But fact is that the current Russian state cannot be held accountable for policies conducted by preceding regimes.

When it comes to genocide in Ukraine, let's not get into which elements within the USSR conceived and made every effort to have such policies pushed through (hint: it didn't come from Stalin).

As for population displacements and "ethnic cleansing", perhaps you ought to include how nationalist Ukrainian collaborators of Germany (the same WW2 nationalists who're largely being revered under the current Ukrainian regime) not only massacred and expelled Russian-speakers and Jewish Ukrainians but also Polish minorities of Galicia (western Ukraine).

Finally, about Russia funding certain political parties in Europe today, EU regimes can change their laws accordingly if they have an issue with it. And aren't they themselves supporting the liberal, pro-western opposition in Russia (from Navalny to all the others), even when it tries to stage "color revolutions" against the system? So it's more than fair game.



ZeGerman said:


> And lastly…i am not a fan of the american empire either…why however do ukraine and europe have to suffer through russian agression for something america did?



My proposed solution: man up and shake off US overlordship as soon as possible. Otherwise further instability in Europe and Ukraine can be expected.

I'd recommend listening again to US diplomat Victoria Nuland to understand how much Washington cares about its European "partners":









Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call


A transcript of the alleged conversation between Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and the US ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt discussing the crisis in Ukraine.



www.bbc.co.uk







ZeGerman said:


> And then we have you supporting the russians (doing similar or worse…usa atleast did not straight up annex iraq).



As explained before, annexation is not worse than deliberate undermining of a nation's social fabric, turning communities against each other, splitting up a unified state into several unstable, antagonistic, weak entities condemned to be at each others' throats for ages - a policy pursued by US neocons and lib-hawks alike, along with their zionist masters. At least the regions of Ukraine which will be integrated into Russia will benefit from lasting stability.

_____



Apollon said:


> Deal with it. I accept no russian propaganda. We are at war and have the tools to target the enemies within



I'd say you try to deal with it. Isn't this the Pakistan Defence Forum? And for all I know the German regime wields no power on here. So the authoritarian stifling of voices of truth and the imposition of a regime-sponsored, exclusive narrative made of spin and endless twisting of facts won't apply. Here views challenging western regime propaganda can be and are indeed expressed.

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## Primus

How many Cruise/Ballistic missiles have both Russia and Ukraine launched at one another since the start of the war?

@jhungary


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## Paul2

Huffal said:


> How many Cruise/Ballistic missiles have both Russia and Ukraine launched at one another since the start of the war?
> 
> @jhungary



~2500-3000 if misfires are counted, which are double digit

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## sammuel

SalarHaqq said:


> Informed people already knew that western regimes are repressive police states relying on surveillance and denunciation. Their so-called "freedom of speech" is an underhanded hoax,



Stop spreading stupidity.

Western countries freedom of speech is way beyond what goes around in your country or Russia,

Your country is ranked 178 from 180 countries ! Two places above North Korea ! and you dare speak of freedom of speech ?


177Turkmenistan25.01178Iran23.22179Eritrea19.62180North Korea13.9










World Press Freedom Index 2022 List: Norway tops the index, India plummeted to the 150th position


Norway emerged as the top performer while North Korea is the worst-performing country on the World Press Freedom Index 2022. India has plummeted to




www.jagranjosh.com

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## Paul2

@jhungary so we quietly came to a point where Ukrainians are starting to openly pointing out to sabotage of weapon shipment plan by somebody with good relations with US medias leaking details of defence talk left, right, and centre, trying to spin the "compromise" line



What do you think?


----------



## TNT

Paul2 said:


> @jhungary so we quietly came to a point where Ukrainians are starting to openly pointing out to sabotage of weapon shipment plan by somebody with good relations with US medias leaking details of defence plans left, right, and centre.
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think?



Seems another excuse. The ukranians will even blame their helpers but not themselves. Without US and Europe help, ukraine wouldve been a history by now and yet this joker keeps blaming others.

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## SalarHaqq

sammuel said:


> Stop spreading lies.
> 
> Western countries freedom of speech is way beyond what goes around in your country or Russia,
> 
> Your country is ranked 178 from 180 countries ! Two places above North Korea ! and you dare speak of freedom of speech ?
> 
> 
> 177Turkmenistan25.01178Iran23.22179Eritrea19.62180North Korea13.9
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> World Press Freedom Index 2022 List: Norway tops the index, India plummeted to the 150th position
> 
> 
> Norway emerged as the top performer while North Korea is the worst-performing country on the World Press Freedom Index 2022. India has plummeted to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jagranjosh.com



You forgot to cite the key excerpt:



> *according to an index by Paris-based Reporters Without Borders (RSF).*



In other words a completely subjective, politicized, biased assessment by a source which is anything but credible when it comes to Iran.

Your so-called fact itself is a propaganda statement by an organization working in the interests of western regimes!

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## sammuel

SalarHaqq said:


> You forgot to cite the key excerpt:
> 
> 
> 
> In other words a completely subjective, politicized, biased assessment by a source which is anything but credible when it comes to Iran.
> 
> Your so-called fact itself is a propaganda statement by an organization working in the interests of western regimes!



You are welcome to bring any other source you like , that points to Your country Iran and Russia , being on top when it comes to freedom of speech.

Other than the source " because i said so "

In both Iran and Russia , all free press was banned long ago and opposition members are thrown into jail . What freedom are you talking about ? what nonsense are you trying to sell the members here ?

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## jamahir

sammuel said:


> Stop spreading stupidity.
> 
> Western countries freedom of speech is way beyond what goes around in your country or Russia,
> 
> Your country is ranked 178 from 180 countries ! Two places above North Korea ! and you dare speak of freedom of speech ?
> 
> 
> 177Turkmenistan25.01178Iran23.22179Eritrea19.62180North Korea13.9
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> World Press Freedom Index 2022 List: Norway tops the index, India plummeted to the 150th position
> 
> 
> Norway emerged as the top performer while North Korea is the worst-performing country on the World Press Freedom Index 2022. India has plummeted to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jagranjosh.com



North Korea ? Do you know the press freedom in India, from which culture the imagery in your profile picture is ? Especially since 2014, the year the fascist BJP formed central government headed by Modi, press freedom and other freedoms have become curtailed extremely. Those in the media, especially news TV who champion the line of the Hindutvadi terrorists are called by the rational people as "Godi Media". "Godh" in Hindi means the lap so "Godi media" refers to those "journalists" who sit in the lap of Modi and co. The other journalists are routinely harassed by the central government's various arms and its 500 million supporters among the population. During the second wave of COVID in India last year, brave and ethical journalists in BJP-ruled states who published the real number of COVID deaths which were much higher then what the BJP governments were saying, they got arrested. Among the other cases is one of Siddique Kappan who is in jail for more than 1.5 years on charges of British colonial times rule called "Sedition" just because he went to the BJP-ruled state Uttar Pradesh to cover the story of the gangrape and murder by torture of a Dalit girl in late 2020 done by four upper caste Hindu males :


> Siddique Kappan wrote about many of the things I write about: India’s majoritarian turn and discrimination against Muslims. That he is in jail, and I am not, reflects my privilege – as a Hindu and as a journalist writing in English.
> 
> Kappan has now been in jail for a year, facing charges that include sedition, conspiracy to incite violence, outraging religious feelings and sundry terrorism charges. If he could face such charges merely for trying to do his job, so could we all.
> 
> Kappan was picked up by the police in Uttar Pradesh while on his way to the site of an alleged gangrape and murder of a young Dalit woman in a village called Hathras, the kind of journey all reporters make in the course of their jobs. In December 2020, the Uttar Pradesh police told the Supreme Court that Kappan – a family man of modest means – was not a journalist but only “posed” as one. But Kappan very clearly was a journalist, with a decade’s worth of reporting under his belt.
> 
> In a 5,000-word chargesheet – the kind of voluminous submissions now common when cases stand on legal quicksand – filed in April 2021, less than six months after the submission to the Supreme Court, the Uttar Pradesh police acknowledged he was indeed a journalist.
> 
> Alice-in-Wonderland bizarreness​There is no evidence of terrorism, charges of which allowed his detention without bail for this long, so the police have doubled down on the charge of incitement against Kappan, but in doing so, the argument they present against him wanders from the realm of legal possibility to an Alice-in-Wonderland bizarreness: off with his head, for no reason.
> 
> “In the writing, the Muslims have been portrayed as victims [who] were beaten up by police and were asked to go to Pakistan. It is evident from the writing that it has been done to incite Muslims,” says the chargesheet, filed in April, the contents of which were revealed in the _Indian Expre_ss this week.
> 
> “These writings of Siddique Kappan, to a great extent, can be classified as communal,” says the chargesheet. “During riots, taking the name of a minority and talking about events related to them can incite sentiments. Responsible journalists do not do such communal reporting. Kappan only and only reports to incite Muslims, which is a hidden agenda of PFI [Popular Front of India]. Some stories were written to sympathise with Maoists and Communists.”
> 
> Nothing in these accusations is, remotely or otherwise, a crime. Writing on a subject is called a beat or an interest. The Popular Front of India is not a banned organisation. Sympathising with someone or an organisation – whether banned or not, and Communists are not proscribed – is not a crime.
> 
> The police accusations against Kappan, if accepted by the courts, will not just further push the boundaries of what is legally credible but will fundamentally undermine or rewrite India’s Constitution.
> 
> Article 19 (1) of the Constitution guarantees – with exceptions, of course – freedom of speech and expression. The freedom of the press is not specifically guaranteed, but that is because Babasaheb Ambedkar, chariman of the committee that drafted the constitution, believed no special mention of the press was needed since it was guaranteed to every Indian.
> 
> If any of the accusations against Kappan is a crime, any, and every journalist – and indeed any Indian – could be arrested and accused of anything that the police deem to be illegal, regardless of what the law and Constitution say.
> 
> The attempt to rewrite what is a crime has been previously made by many police forces in India. Some of these have been accepted by district to Supreme courts, referencing extra-legal arguments that range from “jihadi mentality” to “collective conscience”.
> 
> Criminalising journalism​The concerted efforts now underway to criminalise journalism itself are most apparent in Uttar Pradesh, where Kappan is incarcerated, and Kashmir, where the tide of state criminality against journalists is most apparent.
> 
> In Kashmir, the assault on journalism has grown exponentially over the two years since the region’s special constitutional status was removed and the state reduced to a union territory governed directly from New Delhi.
> 
> Kashmiri journalists have faced criminal cases, including under India’s draconian anti-terror law, for merely reporting stories. They have been slapped, detained – sometimes at gun point – threatened and police pressure brought to bear even on their families. Entire topics are off limits, and in one Kashmir district, journalists can no longer even call themselves journalists unless they are registered with local authorities.
> 
> As the saying goes, what happens in Kashmir today, happens in the rest of India tomorrow.
> 
> The police in Uttar Pradesh have not been as severe, but the Kashmir model of menacing journalists is evident. The Uttar Pradesh police have even gone beyond state boundaries to reach into the heart of India’s capital and register criminal cases against journalists there for little more than, well, journalism.
> 
> These cases are not filed because the police believe there is a case to be made out but because they are anxious to be accomplices to those who run the government, in this case India’s ruling Bharatiya Janata Party, notorious for its contemptuous approach to journalism and journalists.
> 
> As Prime Minister, Narendra Modi has never addressed a press conference, and the term “presstitute”, evolved by one of his ministers, reflects his party’s ill-concealed contempt for independent journalism, diametrically opposed to his declaration abroad that India is the “mother of democracy”.
> 
> The government’s modus operandi to cripple Indian democracy is apparent: get the police to file cases against anyone regarded as politically inconvenient – a journalist or anyone else – make some arrests on whim and political diktat and let the cases meander through the courts.
> 
> As Kappan’s case illustrates, innocence or guilt is immaterial: the message is that journalism is no refuge for free speech and that India’s laws and Constitution – far from being protective features – will be weaponised against those who do not fall in line.
> 
> Every journalist who writes on matters regarded as inimical to the interests of India’s ruling party would be well advised to look over their shoulder.
> 
> I know I do. The difference, as a Muslim colleague put it, is that a Hindu journalist may face a case. “I will face UAPA”, the anti-terror Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act, he said.
> 
> _Samar Halarnkar is the editor of Article-14.com, a project that tracks misuse of the law and the hope it offers._



@SalarHaqq

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## Paul2

Pentagon spokesman calls out reported leaks to N.Y. Times and NBC about use of U.S. intelligence by Ukraine​


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## jamahir

SalarHaqq said:


> People ought to bookmark the quoted post and whenever a NATO apologist in this thread comes up with the usual fairy tales about "freedom" and "democracy", confront them with it.



Check this out  :


Apollon said:


> Im not an atheist. I follow the philosophy of Aristoteles, absolute superiority of Europe. Democracy and Freedom.


But no democracy and freedom for non-Europeans to reject enslavement by Europe / NATO which can travel 10,000 kms to make imperialist war.

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## SalarHaqq

sammuel said:


> You are welcome to bring any other source you like , that points to Your country Iran and Russia , being on top when it comes to freedom of speech.
> 
> Other than the source " because i said so "
> 
> In both Iran and Russia , all free press was banned long ago and opposition members are thrown into jail . What freedom are you talking about ? what nonsense are you trying to sell the members here ?



What balderdash.

How can a ranking on press freedom be taken seriously when it puts Iran behind Saudi Arabia, the same regime that used one of its consulates to trap a prominent foreign-based journalist writing for a major US newspaper, and then has the man dismembered alive?

Turkey usually has superior numbers of incarcerated journalists than Iran. And under the zionist occupation regime in Palestine, every topic remotely connected to security matters (which in the local context can potentially be extended to just about anything) is subjected by law to military censorship. Yet Reporters Without Border will rank these two much more favorably than Iran, of course.

The very fact that a huge number of print media are being published in Iran, with around half of them politically aligned on or outright controlled by the reformist and moderate camps, whose aim is nothing short of Gorbachev-style "regime change" from within, means that RSF's assessment about the degree of press freedom practiced in the Islamic Republic is but an utter joke.

If there was no perceptible and significant difference between editorial lines of various Iranian media, I wonder why Google would apply indirect censorship by systematically promoting outlets known for their closeness to western-appeasing reformists? Anyone can try a Google search in Persian, limited to .ir websites, with keywords related to politics or society - and media such as "Shargh", "Hamshahri Online", "Etemade Melli" i.e. famous reformist and liberal ones will always be shown first. Whilst news sites loyal to the founding principles of the 1979 Revolution (especially its staunch anti-imperialist outlook) are methodically relegated far behind.

Same applies to the contention that opposition members are "thrown in jail": what's this supposed to mean when candidates from multiple competing parties with different policy agendas are running at every single election held in Iran (municipal elections, parliamentary elections, presidential elections, and elections for the Assembly of Experts)? Perhaps Tel Aviv and its western allies ought to take a better look at their friends on the other side of the Persian Gulf, where hardly any election is organized at all, rather than spreading such a distorted image of the Iranian political system.

All of what I just explained about Iran is naturally true of Russia as well.

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## Paul2

Spotted 2 days ago


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## Apollon

SalarHaqq said:


> If you're unwilling to hold a discussion without throwing around ad hominems, I see no point in responding. For the one who resorts to such means, has already lost the debate. But let's address these talking points one more time, seeing how they're lifted out of the official doxa outlined by NATO regime mouthpieces.
> 
> First of all the person you're referring to has a name, Viktor Yushchenko to be precise. For someone who pretends to superior knowledge of history your narrative is revealing some gaps, but anyway.
> 
> Secondly, supposed Russian poisoning of Yushchenko in September 2004 represents a claim by western regimes and their minions - but certainly not a proven hard fact. When examined closely, the story appears to be as full of holes as a piece of Swiss cheese. Basically like every such allegation issued by NATO and the zionists against those who refuse to submit to their imperial yoke.
> 
> As an example in July 2019, Ukraine's deputy Prosecutor-General and chief Military Prosecutor, Anatoly Matios, in a courageous move contradicted Prosecutor-General Yuri Lutsenko by declaring that investigators under his watch hadn't found the slightest evidence for poisoning.
> 
> Other Ukrainian officials observed that Yushchenko would refuse to submit to a second blood test. If the results of the initial one hadn't been doctored, what did he have to fear?
> 
> Thirdly, only two months after this affair Yushchenko started calling for protests against the announced result of the presidential election, alleging "fraud" to his detriment - a classical pretext invoked in "color revolutions". The ensuing mobilization then came to be known as the so-called "Orange revolution", a textbook "color revolution" read an inauthentic, non-spontaneous event planned, instigated and staged by NATO intelligence services, organizations controlled by Washington such as the NED (National Endowment for Democracy) as well as messianist bankster oligarchs like George Soros.
> 
> More information can be found here:
> 
> https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/eng/zxxx_662805/202205/t20220507_10683090.html
> 
> And from the horse's mouth as well:
> 
> https://canadiandimension.com/artic...ecret-role-in-ukraines-2004-orange-revolution
> 
> These engineered uprisings require triggers, usually constructed in a typically Hollywoodesque manner so as to dupe a public already conditioned by and responsive to the brainwashing techniques deployed by the American commercial feature film industry. And Yushchenko's supposed poisoning at the hands of "evil Russia" was the first such trigger in the build up to the fake "Orange revolution".
> 
> Of course, this represents an illegal intervention in the domestic affairs of a sovereign nation, aimed at determining its head of state from outside.
> 
> As for the story about democratically elected Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych reneging on earlier promises of improved ties with the EU:
> 
> 1) Ukraine and the EU proceeded to draft an Association Agreement in March 2012 under Yanukovych's presidency.
> 
> 2) The EU however was unduly interfering in Ukraine's domestic judicial process and formulating conditions for the bilateral treaty to be finalized, namely that independent Ukrainian courts revoke their decisions to detain certain politicians believed to have broken the law. Hence why the negotiations stalled.
> 
> 3) Where's the evidence that President Yanukovych was acting on instructions from Moscow? Not every politician in Ukraine is a hysterical russophobe and a willing NATO puppet.
> 
> 4) Violating election promises is a specialty of those holding office in western so-called "democracies". Cases are so plentiful and prominent I can't be bothered to expand upon them. But as someone with a solid knowledge of European history, I hope various examples will come to your mind spontaneously.
> 
> 
> 
> What about the fact that Ukraine had been violating the Minsk agreements for years, and targeting its Russian-speaking citizens of all people?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you incriminating the Russian Federation for acts committed by the Russian empire in the 19th century and then by the Soviet Union? Each of which is again subject to discussion. But fact is that the current Russian state cannot be held accountable for policies conducted by preceding regimes.
> 
> When it comes to genocide in Ukraine, let's not get into which elements within the USSR conceived and made every effort to have it pushed through (hint: it didn't come from Stalin).
> 
> As for population displacements and "ethnic cleansing", perhaps you ought to include how nationalist Ukrainian collaborators of Germany (the same WW2 nationalists who're largely revered under the current Ukrainian regime) not only massacred and expelled Russian-speakers and Jewish Ukrainians but also local Polish minorities in western Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> My proposed solution: man up and shake off US overlordship as soon as possible. Otherwise it further instability in Europe and Ukraine is probable.
> 
> I'd recommend listening again to US diplomat Victoria Nuland to understand how much Washington cares about its European "partners":
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call
> 
> 
> A transcript of the alleged conversation between Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and the US ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt discussing the crisis in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As explained before, annexation is not worse than deliberate undermining of a nation's social fabric, turning communities against each other, splitting up a unified state into several unstable, antagonistic, weak entities condemned to be at each others' throats for ages - a policy pursued by US neocons and lib-hawks alike, along with their zionist masters. At least the regions of Ukraine which will be integrated into Russia will benefit from lasting stability.
> 
> _____
> 
> 
> 
> I'd say you try to deal with it. Isn't this the Pakistan Defence Forum? And for all I know the German regime wields no power on here. So the authoritarian stifling of voices of truth and the imposition of a regime-sponsored, exclusive narrative made of spin and endless twisting of facts won't apply. Here views challenging western regime propaganda can be and are indeed expressed.



Yet nobody cares



jamahir said:


> Check this out  :
> 
> But no democracy and freedom for non-Europeans to reject enslavement by Europe / NATO which can travel 10,000 kms to make imperialist war.



As i said i dont care about others as long they not affect us in a negative way.


----------



## sammuel

SalarHaqq said:


> What balderdash.
> 
> How can a ranking on press freedom be taken seriously when it puts Iran behind Saudi Arabia, the same regime which used one of its consulates to trap a prominent foreign-based journalist working for a major US newspaper, and then has the man dismembered alive?
> 
> Turkey usually has a larger number of incarcerated journalists than Iran. And under the zionist occupation regime in Palestine, every subject remotely connected to security matters (which in the local context can potentially be extended to just about anything) is subject to military censorship by law. Yet Reporters Without Border will rank these two countries much more favorably than Iran, of course.
> 
> The very fact that a huge number of print media are being published in Iran, with around half of them politically aligned on or outright controlled by the reformist and moderate camps, whose aim is nothing short of Gorbachev-style "regime change" from within, means that RSF's assessment about the degree of press freedom practiced by the Islamic Republic is but an utter joke.
> 
> If there was no perceptible and significant difference between editorial lines of various Iranian media, I wonder why Google would practice indirect censorship by systematically promoting outlets known for their closeness to western-appeasing reformists? Anyone can try to a Google search in Persian, restricted to .ir websites, on some political or social topic - media such as "Shargh", "Hamshahri Online" and so on i.e. famous reformist and liberal ones will always be shown first. Whilst news sites loyal to the original principles of the 1979 Revolution (especially its staunch anti-imperialist outlook) are methodically relegated far behind.
> 
> Same applies to the contention that opposition members are "thrown in jail": what's this supposed to mean when candidates from multiple competing parties with different policy agendas are running at every single election held by Iran (municipal elections, parliamentary elections, presidential elections, and elections for the Assembly of Experts)? Perhaps Tel Aviv and its western allies ought to take a better look at their friends on the other side of the Persian Gulf, where hardly any election is organized at all, rather than spreading such a distorted image of the Iranian political system.
> 
> All of what I just explained about Iran is naturally true of Russia as well.




You are welcome to bring any other source you like , that points to Your country Iran and Russia , being on top when it comes to freedom of speech.

Other than the source " because i said so "

~


----------



## ZeGerman

SalarHaqq said:


> First of all the person you're referring to is named Viktor Yushchenko. Since you pretend to a better knowledge of history, perhaps you'd want to fill these gaps in the narrative, but anyway.


Suprised you heard of him hence i kept it more general. 


SalarHaqq said:


> Secondly, supposed Russian poisoning of Yushchenko in September 2004 represents a claim by western regimes and their minions - certainly not a proven hard fact. When examined closely, the story appears to be as dotted with holes as a piece of Swiss cheese. Basically like every such allegation issued by NATO and the zionists against those who refuse to submit to their imperial yoke.


Ah yes. The standard: 
Western claims are nato/zionist lies while russian/handpicked claims are the truth. 

If you subjectively pick and choose what claims to reject or believe then we are basically discussing two different “realities”


SalarHaqq said:


> As an example in July 2019, Ukraine's deputy Prosecutor-General and chief Military Prosecutor, Anatoly Matios, in a courageous move contradicted Prosecutor-General Yuri Lutsenko by declaring that investigators under his watch hadn't found the slightest evidence for poisoning.
> 
> Other Ukrainian officials observed that Yushchenko would refuse to submit to a second blood test. If the results of the initial one hadn't been doctored, what did he have to fear?


Russian/zionist claims. See i can play that game too? 



SalarHaqq said:


> Thirdly, only two months after this affair Yushchenko started calling for protests against the announced result of the presidential election, alleging "fraud" to his detriment - a classical pretext invoked in "color revolutions". The ensuing mobilization came to be known as the "Orange revolution", a textbook "color revolution" read an inauthentic, non-spontaneous event planned, instigated and staged by NATO intelligence services, organizations controlled by Washington such as the NED (National Endowment for Democracy) as well as messianist banker oligarchs like George Soros.
> 
> More information can be found here:
> 
> https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/eng/zxxx_662805/202205/t20220507_10683090.html
> 
> And from the horse's mouth as well:
> 
> https://canadiandimension.com/artic...ecret-role-in-ukraines-2004-orange-revolution


And the hundred thousands protesters were all cia agents? Fact is both america and russia meddle in other countries public opinion. Again russia is well known to fund many disruptive political parties in the EU


SalarHaqq said:


> These engineered uprisings require triggers, usually mounted in a typically Hollywoodesque manner so as to dupe a public already conditioned by and responsive to the brainwashing techniques deployed by the American commercial film industry. And Yushchenko's supposed poisoning at the hands of "evil Russia" was the first such trigger in the build up to the fake "Orange revolution".
> 
> Of course, this represents an illegal intervention in the domestic affairs of a sovereign nation, aimed at determining its head of state from outside.


Interventions like russia poisoning and blackmailing…


SalarHaqq said:


> As for the story about democratically elected Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych reneging on earlier promises of improved ties with the EU:
> 
> 1) Under Yanukovych's presidency, Ukraine and the EU did proceed to draft an Association Agreement in March 2012.
> 
> 2) The EU however was unduly interfering in Ukraine's domestic judicial process and formulating conditions for the bilateral treaty to be finalized, namely that independent Ukrainian courts revoke their decision to detain certain politicians believed to have broken the law. Hence why the negotiations stalled.


Ah now the domestic judicial process is moral and must be upheld, but when the same “domestic judicial process” sentenced Yanukovich for being a traitor…then its suddenly zionist garbage. 


SalarHaqq said:


> 4) Breaching election promises is a specialty of those holding office in western liberal "democracies". Cases are so plentiful and prominent I can't be bothered to expand upon them. But as someone familiar with recent European history, I hope various examples will spontaneously come to your mind.
> 
> 
> 
> What about the fact that Ukraine had been violating the Minsk agreements for years, and targeting its Russian-speaking citizens of all people?


Oh the fake genocide. With most casualties because of the seperatists or simply collateral damage due to misconduct from both sides. 

I see you skipped the russian invasion bit. So much for ukraines oh so sacred independance then right? 


SalarHaqq said:


> Are you incriminating the Russian Federation for acts committed by the Russian empire in the 19th century and then by the Soviet Union? Each of which is again subject to discussion. But fact is that the current Russian state cannot be held accountable for policies conducted by preceding regimes.


Oh same can apply for america then. Why are you still sore then..its a pure new administration. 
Or maybe they should rename themselves. 

Besides with the current war of agression, and flattening chechnia. Putin showed he differs little from his predecessors. 


SalarHaqq said:


> When it comes to genocide in Ukraine, let's not get into which elements within the USSR conceived and made every effort to have it pushed through (hint: it didn't come from Stalin).


I am sure you have your conspiracy theories


SalarHaqq said:


> As for population displacements and "ethnic cleansing", perhaps you ought to include how nationalist Ukrainian collaborators of Germany (the same WW2 nationalists who're largely revered under the current Ukrainian regime) not only massacred and expelled Russian-speakers and Jewish Ukrainians but also local Polish minorities in western Ukraine.


Holodomor was before ww2


SalarHaqq said:


> My proposed solution: man up and shake off US overlordship as soon as possible. Otherwise further instability in Europe and Ukraine can be expected.
> 
> I'd recommend listening again to US diplomat Victoria Nuland to understand how much Washington cares about its European "partners":
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call
> 
> 
> A transcript of the alleged conversation between Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and the US ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt discussing the crisis in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As explained before, annexation is not worse than deliberate undermining of a nation's social fabric, turning communities against each other, splitting up a unified state into several unstable, antagonistic, weak entities condemned to be at each others' throats for ages - a policy pursued by US neocons and lib-hawks alike, along with their zionist masters. At least the regions of Ukraine which will be integrated into Russia will benefit from lasting stability.


Seems eastblock much prefers being a “weak entity” seperate state tied to eu then being “stable” under the boot of a neo sovjet regime…

Which we also see now with ukranians fighting like lions. 

heavens forbid that they can choose. 
Back, back to being a russian colony!

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jhungary

Huffal said:


> How many Cruise/Ballistic missiles have both Russia and Ukraine launched at one another since the start of the war?
> 
> @jhungary


OSINT suggest low 3000 from Russia, and around 2-300 from Ukraine.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> @jhungary so we quietly came to a point where Ukrainians are starting to openly pointing out to sabotage of weapon shipment plan by somebody with good relations with US medias leaking details of defence talk left, right, and centre, trying to spin the "compromise" line
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think?


First of all, it's borderline insane, or I would say at least naive, to underestimate Russian offensive intelligence capability. They may not be as complimented and completed as NATO intelligence capability, but you are still talking about FSB, the successor agency of KGB, there are still certain reach, I mean, FSB is not exactly completely incompetent.

On the other hand, after that stunt (Not sure if you remember, there was an incident when Zelenskyy was talking over internet directly to the US Congress and some Congressman stream the entire conversation online) I am not at all surprise if any one of those Congressman babbling their mouth off and ignore OPSEC once again and intentional or unintentionally leak those weapon package out in the media and getting targeted. I mean, that's what those Congressman good at, that's bragging what they are doing to make them look good.

If you want my 2 cents on it? It can be anything. I will not say the Ukrainian line of communication were not compromised, but at the same time, after seeing some basic OPSEC violated by our Congressman? I also am not surprise if these people shot their mouth off.


----------



## _Nabil_

jhungary said:


> That's what I am talking about, Russia goal is to liberate the ENTIRE Donbas as they claim, so, on a operational level and strategic level, they would have to have enough resource to do that (Ie you need to be able to maintain operational gain in the area in order to suppliment your strategic goal, which is to capture the entire Donbas.)
> 
> You don't do it by attacking each and every settlement in Donbas, you do it by overwhelm the Ukrainian, taken off their defence line. and encircle their troop so they lost the fight, and then you occupied the city where the Ukrainian left behind. I have studied war extensively and I have studied soviet doctrine, I know how Russian work (again, look at my sitrep post I predicted more than 70% of the event before it happened), and not a single one in modern history (which is within the last 5 to 600 years) that an army have to take every inch of the soil literally to complete their conquests. On the other hand, you don't really need to know Soviet Doctrine to know you simply cannot use 60 or so BTG to attack EVERY city in Donbas one by one. That is no way a force strong enough to do that.
> 
> You only have limited amount of attacker available for you to achieve your object, and right now, the Russian is throwing these manpower away from taking ground instead of in a grinding fight with your enemy. Sure, Russia can grind down Ukrainian in Sieverodonetsk in 3 or 4 weeks, then what? You have to go do it again and again with city after city, Lysychansk, Kramatorsk, Sloviansk, Adviika, Bakhmut, Seversk, Toresk, just to name a few, until everyone of those 2000 cities, village big and small is captured? You would probably be doing so in the next 100 years if you are doing it that way, and that is given if you have unlimited amount of manpower.
> 
> And what about Dniper river? It did not run thru or close to Donbas, that is the river that split Ukraine in Half.
> 
> And Russia is no where close to being taken Odessa, in fact, Russia is no where close to taking Mykolaiv. And the way Russia fighting, they are probably going to run out of man before they can get close to Mykolaiv, that is if Kherson itself is not taken back by Ukrainian, they are counter attacking to only 10 km away from Kherson...


You have perfectly described the reality on the grounds, the Russian offensive is too slow and the global strategy is really strange.

I don't get that chain of command problem you tried to explain, can't be the answer of all the Russian strategy 

Can you suggest the Russian strategy behind :

1- Russia not bombing all the rails roads, roads in the Poland vicinity to stop arms supplies?

2- Russia not bombing to ash the civil/military airports under Ukrainian sovereignty.

3- Russia not bombing all the well known Ukrainian military assets, they are bombing 1-2 every week or so

4- Russia stopping using Belarusian soil to attack Ukraine

5- Not using multiple fronts to break Ukrainian resistance.

6- Not a single big operation behind the enemy lines, they have air superiority, they can do it easily, you should know the damage of operations behind enemy lines.

7- Scarce use of fighters, when Ukrainian air defense is depleted.

For me, looks like Russians strategy is not finishing this war quickly, looks weird, but can't find any other option.



sammuel said:


> You are welcome to bring any other source you like , that points to Your country Iran and Russia , being on top when it comes to freedom of speech.
> 
> Other than the source " because i said so "
> 
> ~


The only institutions doing this kind of statistics, surveys, .... Are west/Zio affiliated

As simple as that ...

And most Think tanks, NGO, Medias,.... relying, spreading,..... those survey are West/Zio financed.

As simple as that .....

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

_Nabil_ said:


> You have perfectly described the reality on the grounds, the Russian offensive is too slow and the global strategy is really strange.
> 
> I don't get that chain of command problem you tried to explain, can't be the answer of all the Russian strategy
> 
> Can you suggest the Russian strategy behind :
> 
> 1- Russia not bombing all the rails roads, roads in the Poland vicinity to stop arms supplies?



They can't bomb road that far from near Poland. Even if the Russian bomber take off in Belarus, there are still around 500km of hostile ground to cover and lacking of stealth fighter, that's too dangerous to cross into Ukraine and bomb target that far west in Ukraine, you would have to run into a lot of SAM and fighter interception. Had Russia achieve complete Air Superiority, that would be another question. But seeing they just have their Su-35 and their general shot down in a Su-25. It is safe to conclude Russian Air superiority is far from being achieve.

Missile do not have enough CEP to hit railway or road (I don't think any country on earth can be that accurate enough to be able to hit a road)




_Nabil_ said:


> 2- Russia not bombing to ash the civil/military airports under Ukrainian sovereignty.



Same thing with Railway, you can only bomb what you can, in this war, a lot of destruction were done on Artillery, not Air Power. Which mean unless you are within range of that artillery circle (25km) anything beyond that is untouched.

RuAF is not USAF, what the US will do is to neuter your airforce first, either on the ground or on the air, and then push SEAD mission to take out your SAM, then you have Air Superiority and then it is where the B-52 come in. Russia, or one reason or the other, had not done that as explain before, they even have fighter jet and bomber being down by Ukrainian air defence recently.





_Nabil_ said:


> 3- Russia not bombing all the well known Ukrainian military assets, they are bombing 1-2 every week or so



Again, the only way to reach anything outside artillery range is missile, and Russia don't really have that many missile to begin with. Once they are expanded, it's gone. Unless RuAF start challenging Ukrainian Air Superiority, you are not going to see anything being touch outside that 25 km artillery range.

A better question should be why RuAF did not challenge Ukrainian Air Defence, they have the number, and presumably the skill to do so, but they didn't do so, I don't believe Ukrainian Air Defence is that good that Russia cannot penetrate. That would be the better question to ask, because without that, unless you have unlimited amount of missile supplies, You can only support within your artillery range.



_Nabil_ said:


> 4- Russia stopping using Belarusian soil to attack Ukraine



It's quite clear on the first month of war Russia cannot support a war from Belarus front logistically. They tried by taking the road and taking Hostomol Airport, but that log train is just too long and too prone to get ambushed. That is why they withdraw from that axis to begin with.




_Nabil_ said:


> 5- Not using multiple fronts to break Ukrainian resistance.


That IMO is the only thing Russia did right. With that amount of troop (roughly 100,000) and without Air Superiority, you can't supply "Multiple" front. It will take away your supporting asset and you lose concentration. 100,000 troop may seems a lot but considering Ukraine have at least 8 Brigade with unknown TDF Brigade in the area, (that's 50,000 +) 100,000 is the minimum you need in order to pull off an offensive. Traditionally you need 3 attacker to overwhelm 1 defender.

Even when Russia sort of try to go in with multiple axis, the Izyum and Popasna axis have not moved any at all in the last month. As I said, instead of going after Sieverodonetsk, if I am the Russian, I will try to break out from these two city, because that is the only way I can encircle the Ukrainian troop and force them to fight a set piece which I know I can win.

Now instead of a set piece, I have in my hand a urban city fight, which just a grinding battle. For what? A city in Luhansk? After that, I would have to fight another city, then another, then another...............



_Nabil_ said:


> 6- Not a single big operation behind the enemy lines, *they have air superiority*, they can do it easily, you should know the damage of operations behind enemy lines.



That's the problem, they don't.









Dramatic Footage Captures Moment Russian Fighter Jet Su-35 is Shot Down in Air as Ukrainians Cheer [WATCH]


Images show the charred remains of the aircraft believed to be shot down using an anti-aircraft missile in the Kharkiv region.




www.ibtimes.sg













Russia’s Su-35 shot down in Kherson Region


Russia’s Su-35 fighter jet has been shot down by the Ukrainian fighter aircraft over Kherson Region. — Ukrinform.




www.ukrinform.net













Funeral held for ‘hero’ Russian pilot shot down in Ukraine


Kanamat Botashev, a 63-year-old major-general who volunteered to return to service, awarded the posthumous title of ‘Hero of Russian Federation’.




www.scmp.com













Russian helicopter crashes in fireball after shot down by Ukrainian missile


THIS is the dramatic moment a Russian helicopter explodes into a fireball as it’s struck by a Ukrainian missile. The aircraft was downed in the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine, where much of…




www.thesun.co.uk













Russia’s Su-25 aircraft shot down over Zaporizhzhia Region


Ukrainian defenders have shot down Russia’s Su-25 aircraft over the city of Orikhiv, Zaporizhzhia Region. — Ukrinform.




www.ukrinform.net





Set aside whether or not these Russian aircraft were actually being shotdown (even tho A lot of them comes with video evidence) that show Ukrainian Air Activities is quite active.

There are 3 different level of Air Superiorities.

1.) Dominant Air Superiority - Your enemy fly, your enemy dies, you can intercept every single sorties your enemy launches
2.) Complete Air Superiority - Your enemy have capability to fly, but not the capability to challenge you.
3.) Partial Air Superiority - You have achieve a localise air exclusion zone, you can challenge every air traffic in that zone

At this point, what Russia have is either 3 or is still contesting air superiority. The Sky is free for Ukrainian to fly on, and they did challenge Russian Air Force in just about every corner in Ukraine. Again, that is just from the activities level, I am not talking about actually shooting down Russian Aircraft.

And without either 1 or 2 (most likely 1 to minimize lost) you really cannot hit anything outside that Artillery range




_Nabil_ said:


> 7- Scarce use of fighters, when Ukrainian air defense is depleted.



Well, I don't think Ukrainian Air Defence is depleted. First of all, Russia did not flew enough sorties to make it happen, You degrade your enemy air power by flying into their area and challenge them, say what you will, but Russia did not use much of its air force since the war, and for a country like Ukraine, Russia would probably have to up their air activities 10 times or more to be able to deplete Ukrainian Air Superiority.

EDIT:: Let me give you a comparsion. DoD Estimated that Russia few 320 sorties between Feb 24-March 20, that's almost a month, 320 sorties. US Air Force flew 100,000+ sorties from Jan 17 to February 23. in the first gulf war to completely decimate Iraqi Air Defence.









Air War Ramps Up in Russia-Ukraine Conflict as Russian PGMs Run Out | Air & Space Forces Magazine


The air war is changing over Ukraine. Russia has increased its number of sorties but appears to be running low on precision-guided munitions.




www.airforcemag.com





What Russia is doing now is like waiting on Ukrainian Air Defence to rust or somehow exploded by themselves. I mean, the only way you can degrade their air capability is by go in there and kill them, and Russia didn't exactly go in there, let alone killing them. Missile barrage is ineffective to taking out Ukrainian Air Defence. Missile does not have enough payload to "level" an airfield, and you need precise intel to strike localised air defence. But then as I explained before no country in the world can have that amount of CEP on launching a cruise missile and hitting a say S-300 air defence system....That is just too small of a target to be hit by cruise missile.



_Nabil_ said:


> For me, looks like Russians strategy is not finishing this war quickly, looks weird, but can't find any other option.


Now this war is 2-D, without Air Power, you will not be able to break Ukraine behind your line. That is why the progress is slow, because you can move quick without air cover.

So the question is, why RuAF did not get in there and finish the job. Pretty sure Russia Air Force have enough unit to patrol Ukraine 24/7 and impose a no fly zone, that, by all account, both Russian and Ukrainian, did not happen.

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## _Nabil_

jhungary said:


> They can't bomb road that far from near Poland. Even if the Russian bomber take off in Belarus, there are still around 500km of hostile ground to cover and lacking of stealth fighter, that's too dangerous to cross into Ukraine and bomb target that far west in Ukraine, you would have to run into a lot of SAM and fighter interception. Had Russia achieve complete Air Superiority, that would be another question. But seeing they just have their Su-35 and their general shot down in a Su-25. It is safe to conclude Russian Air superiority is far from being achieve.
> 
> Missile do not have enough CEP to hit railway or road (I don't think any country on earth can be that accurate enough to be able to hit a road)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing with Railway, you can only bomb what you can, in this war, a lot of destruction were done on Artillery, not Air Power. Which mean unless you are within range of that artillery circle (25km) anything beyond that is untouched.
> 
> RuAF is not USAF, what the US will do is to neuter your airforce first, either on the ground or on the air, and then push SEAD mission to take out your SAM, then you have Air Superiority and then it is where the B-52 come in. Russia, or one reason or the other, had not done that as explain before, they even have fighter jet and bomber being down by Ukrainian air defence recently.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, the only way to reach anything outside artillery range is missile, and Russia don't really have that many missile to begin with. Once they are expanded, it's gone. Unless RuAF start challenging Ukrainian Air Superiority, you are not going to see anything being touch outside that 25 km artillery range.
> 
> A better question should be why RuAF did not challenge Ukrainian Air Defence, they have the number, and presumably the skill to do so, but they didn't do so, I don't believe Ukrainian Air Defence is that good that Russia cannot penetrate. That would be the better question to ask, because without that, unless you have unlimited amount of missile supplies, You can only support within your artillery range.
> 
> 
> 
> It's quite clear on the first month of war Russia cannot support a war from Belarus front logistically. They tried by taking the road and taking Hostomol Airport, but that log train is just too long and too prone to get ambushed. That is why they withdraw from that axis to begin with.
> 
> 
> 
> That IMO is the only thing Russia did right. With that amount of troop (roughly 100,000) and without Air Superiority, you can't supply "Multiple" front. It will take away your supporting asset and you lose concentration. 100,000 troop may seems a lot but considering Ukraine have at least 8 Brigade with unknown TDF Brigade in the area, (that's 50,000 +) 100,000 is the minimum you need in order to pull off an offensive. Traditionally you need 3 attacker to overwhelm 1 defender.
> 
> Even when Russia sort of try to go in with multiple axis, the Izyum and Popasna axis have not moved any at all in the last month. As I said, instead of going after Sieverodonetsk, if I am the Russian, I will try to break out from these two city, because that is the only way I can encircle the Ukrainian troop and force them to fight a set piece which I know I can win.
> 
> Now instead of a set piece, I have in my hand a urban city fight, which just a grinding battle. For what? A city in Luhansk? After that, I would have to fight another city, then another, then another...............
> 
> 
> 
> That's the problem, they don't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dramatic Footage Captures Moment Russian Fighter Jet Su-35 is Shot Down in Air as Ukrainians Cheer [WATCH]
> 
> 
> Images show the charred remains of the aircraft believed to be shot down using an anti-aircraft missile in the Kharkiv region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ibtimes.sg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia’s Su-35 shot down in Kherson Region
> 
> 
> Russia’s Su-35 fighter jet has been shot down by the Ukrainian fighter aircraft over Kherson Region. — Ukrinform.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ukrinform.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funeral held for ‘hero’ Russian pilot shot down in Ukraine
> 
> 
> Kanamat Botashev, a 63-year-old major-general who volunteered to return to service, awarded the posthumous title of ‘Hero of Russian Federation’.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.scmp.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian helicopter crashes in fireball after shot down by Ukrainian missile
> 
> 
> THIS is the dramatic moment a Russian helicopter explodes into a fireball as it’s struck by a Ukrainian missile. The aircraft was downed in the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine, where much of…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thesun.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia’s Su-25 aircraft shot down over Zaporizhzhia Region
> 
> 
> Ukrainian defenders have shot down Russia’s Su-25 aircraft over the city of Orikhiv, Zaporizhzhia Region. — Ukrinform.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ukrinform.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Set aside whether or not these Russian aircraft were actually being shotdown (even tho A lot of them comes with video evidence) that show Ukrainian Air Activities is quite active.
> 
> There are 3 different level of Air Superiorities.
> 
> 1.) Dominant Air Superiority - Your enemy fly, your enemy dies, you can intercept every single sorties your enemy launches
> 2.) Complete Air Superiority - Your enemy have capability to fly, but not the capability to challenge you.
> 3.) Partial Air Superiority - You have achieve a localise air exclusion zone, you can challenge every air traffic in that zone
> 
> At this point, what Russia have is either 3 or is still contesting air superiority. The Sky is free for Ukrainian to fly on, and they did challenge Russian Air Force in just about every corner in Ukraine. Again, that is just from the activities level, I am not talking about actually shooting down Russian Aircraft.
> 
> And without either 1 or 2 (most likely 1 to minimize lost) you really cannot hit anything outside that Artillery range
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I don't think Ukrainian Air Defence is depleted. First of all, Russia did not flew enough sorties to make it happen, You degrade your enemy air power by flying into their area and challenge them, say what you will, but Russia did not use much of its air force since the war, and for a country like Ukraine, Russia would probably have to up their air activities 10 times or more to be able to deplete Ukrainian Air Superiority.
> 
> EDIT:: Let me give you a comparsion. DoD Estimated that Russia few 320 sorties between Feb 24-March 20, that's almost a month, 320 sorties. US Air Force flew 100,000+ sorties from Jan 17 to February 23. in the first gulf war to completely decimate Iraqi Air Defence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Air War Ramps Up in Russia-Ukraine Conflict as Russian PGMs Run Out | Air & Space Forces Magazine
> 
> 
> The air war is changing over Ukraine. Russia has increased its number of sorties but appears to be running low on precision-guided munitions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.airforcemag.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Russia is doing now is like waiting on Ukrainian Air Defence to rust or somehow exploded by themselves. I mean, the only way you can degrade their air capability is by go in there and kill them, and Russia didn't exactly go in there, let alone killing them. Missile barrage is ineffective to taking out Ukrainian Air Defence. Missile does not have enough payload to "level" an airfield, and you need precise intel to strike localised air defence. But then as I explained before no country in the world can have that amount of CEP on launching a cruise missile and hitting a say S-300 air defence system....That is just too small of a target to be hit by cruise missile.
> 
> 
> Now this war are 2-D, without Air Power, you will not be able to break Ukraine behind your line. That is why the progress is slow, because you can move quick without air cover.
> 
> So the question is, why RuAF did not get in there and finish the job. Pretty sure Russia Air Force have enough unit to patrol Ukraine 24/7 and impose a no fly zone, that, by all account, both Russian and Ukrainian, did not happen.


Thanks for the detailed and insightful reply 👍

Looks like this war is still going for 2-3 years ....🤕


----------



## Wood

China’s new vassal: Vladimir Putin


Xi Jinping now holds the better cards in steering the Moscow-Beijing relationship.




www.politico.eu


----------



## jhungary

ZeGerman said:


> Suprised you heard of him hence i kept it more general.
> 
> Ah yes. The standard:
> Western claims are nato/zionist lies while russian/handpicked claims are the truth.
> 
> If you subjectively pick and choose what claims to reject or believe then we are basically discussing two different “realities”
> 
> Russian/zionist claims. See i can play that game too?
> 
> 
> And the hundred thousands protesters were all cia agents? Fact is both america and russia meddle in other countries public opinion. Again russia is well known to fund many disruptive political parties in the EU
> 
> Interventions like russia poisoning and blackmailing…
> 
> Ah now the domestic judicial process is moral and must be upheld, but when the same “domestic judicial process” sentenced Yanukovich for being a traitor…then its suddenly zionist garbage.
> 
> Oh the fake genocide. With most casualties because of the seperatists or simply collateral damage due to misconduct from both sides.
> 
> I see you skipped the russian invasion bit. So much for ukraines oh so sacred independance then right?
> 
> Oh same can apply for america then. Why are you still sore then..its a pure new administration.
> Or maybe they should rename themselves.
> 
> Besides with the current war of agression, and flattening chechnia. Putin showed he differs little from his predecessors.
> 
> I am sure you have your conspiracy theories
> 
> Holodomor was before ww2
> 
> Seems eastblock much prefers being a “weak entity” seperate state tied to eu then being “stable” under the boot of a neo sovjet regime…
> 
> Which we also see now with ukranians fighting like lions.
> 
> heavens forbid that they can choose.
> Back, back to being a russian colony!


You really should stop talking to him. That guy know shit about Ukrainian politics, not once did he bring up the fact that The Pro-Russian guy Yanukovych was not elected in majority on the 2nd round, You need 51% of vote to be President of Ukraine, he got 48.6, and his party failed at Rada too only getting 30% of the seat. The sole reason why he is in power is because he agreed on a Power Sharing deal with Yulia Tymoshenko in exchange for his Presidency, he agree to sign the EU ascension agreement. 

He didn't, the deal fall apart, and Tymoshenko said no more deal and dissolved the parliament. Then Maiden happened. The fact that he is still alive in Russia is the very fact that he fled (stopped being the president when he fled) *BEFORE* maidan, seeing the first thing the Maidan protestor surround is his Presidential Palace. If Maidan happened first, he would have been skin alive by the angry protester..

But you will hear nothing on this from him. And portray him as "Democratically" elected President that got overthrown. Well, how is he "Democratically" elected when he only have 48.6% of the vote when you need 51?? Lol, everyone in Ukraine knows that. And that's why these people are fighting....

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ZeGerman

Famine risk rises in Somalia as rains fail, food prices soar, U.N. says


Nearly a quarter of a million people are facing starvation in Somalia as a drought worsens and global food prices hover near record highs, United Nations agencies said on Monday.




www.reuters.com





Russia is using food and gas as pressure. 

The timing of invasion (huge logistical issues and shortages just after covid) is really beneficial for them. But “what comes after” is a lot more bleak. 

I just wish europe was more diplomatic/quiet on strategy before suddenly ripping up all russian gas contracts at a convenient time. 
The way they are phoning in all their moves (supposedly to push putin to “do the right thing” clearly not working) is just very contra-productive.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534196742220029952

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1


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## jhungary



Reactions: Wow Wow:
1


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## Viet

jamahir said:


> LOL, is there a more militarist, war mongering, weapons-adoring entity than NATO ?
> 
> 
> 
> Cool music and nicely set to the firing rocketry. Can you please post the full song ? @Soldier35
> 
> 
> 
> Done.


NATO is a mighty defense pact. If Ukraine was in the Nato do you think Putin would launch invasion? That’s on Germany and France fault. They refused to give Ok. They bear historic tragedy for this war. However the most tragic mistake did Ukraine. They gave up nuclear weapons in exchange to worthless security assurance of the West and Russia.

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533478946951548930

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534216725163814913

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507751276934742016
lil off topic: Biden: US forces ready to 'fight tonight' with North Korea aka Biden letting his nuts hang

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534191167427977218

Huge strike on Russian MLRS ammo depot

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534237155991625729

The more they bring in the more depleted Russia becomes.

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## The SC

NATO said it does not guarantee that nuclear weapons will not be deployed in Finland and Sweden.

NATO Assistant Secretary-General Kami Grann noted that "every country is free in the nuclear field to accept or not accept weapons."

NATO does not guarantee Russia that it will not deploy nuclear weapons in Finland and Sweden if it joins NATO. This was announced, Tuesday, in an interview of the Swiss television company RTS, with the Assistant Secretary-General of the Alliance

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## kingQamaR

Russia always losing a significant number of soldiers in any war it fights. That's how it does It just keeps throwing bodies at a problem until the problem goes away. Look through Russia's war history. Russia/Soviets lost 15% of their entire population, including civilians, in WW2, I don't think them losing 30,000 soldiers in 2022 is going to matter...

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534191931751800832
Russian *TOS *in the direction of Nikolaev. Solntsepek






The losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine can reach hundreds of thousand soldiers.

The Ukrainian army is rapidly retreating under the attack of the Russian Allied forces. The former deputy head of the US command in Europe, Lieutenant General Stephen Tweety, said that the losses of the Ukrainian armed forces could simultaneously reach hundreds of thousands of fighters.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534244567553568768

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534218928326574081

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## F-22Raptor

kingQamaR said:


> Russia always losing a significant number of soldiers in any war it fights. That's how it does It just keeps throwing bodies at a problem until the problem goes away. Look through Russia's war history. Russia/Soviets lost 15% of their entire population, including civilians, in WW2, I don't think them losing 30,000 soldiers in 2022 is going to matter...





It’s the equipment losses that will set them back decades. And they won’t have modern Western tech to replace those losses.

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## PakFactor

kingQamaR said:


> Russia always losing a significant number of soldiers in any war it fights. That's how it does It just keeps throwing bodies at a problem until the problem goes away. Look through Russia's war history. Russia/Soviets lost 15% of their entire population, including civilians, in WW2, I don't think them losing 30,000 soldiers in 2022 is going to matter...



Their thinking is just like in our part of the world lives have little value, as long as the objective is complete, though I myself do not like that philosophy.


----------



## zartosht

SalarHaqq said:


> The west is going under before everyone's eyes. It's a decaying, decadent, defeated, out of steam and increasingly irrelevant handful of totalitatian, warmongering regimes. Nobody's going to shed a tear when they're confined to the trash can of history, the sooner the better.
> 
> Already, westerners per se are a quickly vanishing breed. Courtesy of their own globalist elites, who've relentlessly been promoting mass immigration and inter-ethnic mixing for decades. Result: 25% of "Germans" are of foreign descent. 26% in Sweden - where population growth is driven to 98,8% by people with foreign backgrounds. Nice perspectives on the horizon for the "west".



Excellent point. Add to that the US is rapidly becoming a hispanic country..... "white" people are expected to become minorities in the US, Canada , and New zealand by 2050.... thats less then 30 years.. Probably quicker since all the undocumented immigration is not even accounted for in the demographic numbers...

I find it hysterical when brainwashed racists like this dude are too dumb to realize who their real enemy is. And are actively cheering on the same zio-liberal order that literally erased their country and people off the face of the earth.

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## kingQamaR

F-22Raptor said:


> It’s the equipment losses that will set them back decades. And they won’t have modern Western tech to replace those losses.



The stress levels of crews manning Russian tanks in Ukraine must be at an all time high. Their vulnerability from modern anti-tank weaponry is frightening


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534172091486019584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534249627125424128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534262261019205632

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## kingQamaR

PakFactor said:


> Their thinking is just like in our part of the world lives have little value, as long as the objective is complete, though I myself do not like that philosophy.



Sadly you are correct , and What always strikes me about the Ukrainian Soldiers is that they are not young boys as in most Wars. They are mostly older Men - 30's or 40s. Family Men?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534219286490775552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534219306426327044

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534201959137304578

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534182402070921222

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534237155991625729
> 
> The more they bring in the more depleted Russia becomes.



Russia has a lot of weapons in storage, in fact it's many times the number of weapons in service.

Even if 50% of weapons in storage is lost to rust, and rot, the remaining half is still enormous.



kingQamaR said:


> Russia always losing a significant number of soldiers in any war it fights. That's how it does It just keeps throwing bodies at a problem until the problem goes away. Look through Russia's war history. Russia/Soviets lost 15% of their entire population, including civilians, in WW2, I don't think them losing 30,000 soldiers in 2022 is going to matter...



In fact, Soviets killed more of their own than the invading Germans...

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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> Russia has a lot of weapons in storage, in fact it's many times the number of weapons in service.
> 
> Even if 50% of weapons in storage is lost to rust, and rot, the remaining half is still enormous.
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, Soviets killed more of their own than the invading Germans...




And each piece of equipment they lose, the weaker Russia becomes. The reality is that the US can keep supplying Ukraine for years if need be.


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## PakFactor

kingQamaR said:


> Sadly you are correct , and What always strikes me about the Ukrainian Soldiers is that they are not young boys as in most Wars. They are mostly older Men - 30's or 40s. Family Men?



It is odd, but I feel they are trying to preserve the youth. Remember, Ukrainian's young population were the breadwinners for their family software engineers, etc. they lose that it'll be difficult to rebuilt.

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## Paul2

kingQamaR said:


> The stress levels of crews manning Russian tanks in Ukraine must be at an all time high. Their vulnerability from modern anti-tank weaponry is frightening



They don't engage in open tank battles for more than a month.

Usually they just park tanks 2-3 km away, and send DPR/LPR cannonfodder forward these days.

Only fire support, or static defence.


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## kingQamaR

Paul2 said:


> Russia has a lot of weapons in storage, in fact it's many times the number of weapons in service.
> 
> Even if 50% of weapons in storage is lost to rust, and rot, the remaining half is still enormous.
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, Soviets killed more of their own than the invading Germans...



The issue is not the Russian techology or military kit. Its not knowing how to use it on a Combined Arms battlefield. This is down to poor generalship, soldiering, command and control, and supply and logistics


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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> And each piece of equipment they lose, the weaker Russia becomes. The reality is that the US can keep supplying Ukraine for years if need be.



It can, will it?

MLRS are delayed by 2+ months, despite them being packed, and ready in early march.

Not a single lend lease weapon has arrived yet, despite much of it being ready, and pretty much waiting on the tarmac all this time.


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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> Russia has a lot of weapons in storage, in fact it's many times the number of weapons in service.
> 
> Even if 50% of weapons in storage is lost to rust, and rot, the remaining half is still enormous.
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, Soviets killed more of their own than the invading Germans...




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533828046892965888


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## Paul2

kingQamaR said:


> The issue is not the Russian techology or military kit. Its not knowing how to use it on a Combined Arms battlefield. This is down to poor generalship, soldiering, command and control, and supply and logistics



The issue is Russia having 7 armies worth of soldiers, and hardware there, and them having no problems sending 2 battalions worth of reinforcements per week — enough to completely cover their losses.

Ukraine desperately needs a supply surge to exceed Russian reinforcement rate by long enough to destroy at least 2 armies to shift the force ratio to favourable.

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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> It can, will it?
> 
> MLRS are delayed by 2+ months, despite them being packed, and ready in early march.
> 
> Not a single lend lease weapon has arrived yet, despite much of it being ready, and pretty much waiting on the tarmac all this time.




All you need to read are Pres Biden’s and Gen Milleys comments. It’s obvious they will continue to supply Ukraine for quite some time.



Paul2 said:


> The issue is Russia having 7 armies worth of soldiers, and hardware there, and them having no problems sending 2 battalions worth of reinforcements per week — enough to completely cover their losses.
> 
> Ukraine desperately needs a supply surge to exceed Russian reinforcement rate by long enough to destroy at least 2 armies to shift the force ratio to favourable.



Ukraine also has another $8B in drawdown authority. That’s enough supply for the rest of the year. 

Their getting another 1,000 Javelins and 6,000 AT4s in the latest package. A lot more Russian armor will be destroyed. And their supply lines will be in trouble once HIMARS and M270 come online.


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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> All you need to read are Pres Biden’s and Gen Milleys comments. It’s obvious they will continue to supply Ukraine for quite some time.



If they would, why they didn't do it before?

For the entirety of march they were busy shifting their men around Europe trying to think how to prevent Europeans from resupplying Ukrainians, not the other way around.

The scene of shaking Stoltenberg in Warsaw was right around that time


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## MeFishToo

Paul2 said:


> The issue is Russia having 7 armies worth of soldiers, and hardware there, and them having no problems sending 2 battalions worth of reinforcements per week — enough to completely cover their losses.
> 
> Ukraine desperately needs a supply surge to exceed Russian reinforcement rate by long enough to destroy at least 2 armies to shift the force ratio to favourable.


2 battalions of what exactly? I think the russians are using patchwork units of whatever is available now, as do the ukrainians in their brigades. Watching some of the many clips of russian IFV being ambushed, they seem rather empty, not holding any units to dismount. Im wondering if they are simply used as substitutes for tanks with a 3 man crew.


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## The SC

Urgent.. The Russian army controls the Ukrainian city of "Svyatogorsk" and the Azot industrial complex will be surrounded like in Mariupol..

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## MeFishToo

Paul2 said:


> If they would, why they didn't do it before?
> 
> For the entirety of march they were busy shifting their men around Europe trying to think how to prevent Europeans from resupplying Ukrainians, not the other way around.
> 
> The scene of shaking Stoltenberg in Warsaw was right around that time


Ukraine had to prove itself worthy of getting the arms supply. They sure did. No one doubts Ukraine is up to this fight, so now it makes a lot of sense supporting them with any means possible. Too bad the west didnt support Ukraine full scale from day one. I still think NATO shouldve taken control of the airspace in western Ukraine 24. february, and let Putin worry about confronting this NATO airforce.


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## Paul2

MeFishToo said:


> 2 battalions of what exactly? I think the russians are using patchwork units of whatever is available now, as do the ukrainians in their brigades. Watching some of the many clips of russian IFV being ambushed, they seem rather empty, not holding any units to dismount. Im wondering if they are simply used as substitutes for tanks with a 3 man crew.



Yes, they are very short on tanks, because their losses in the first month were catastrophic.

Russians will not be able to do bold tank offensives, but they don't need them anymore.

Russia is on defensive, the front is static, and they are just betting on them having more soldiers than Ukrainians have bullets.

For Ukrainians to go on offensive against numerically superior Russians, they need 10x the amount of vehicles they got from the West to this day.

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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533828046892965888



The Pakistan hating American general has been put in his place. The Russians are marching forward and all this fatty can do is bring out empty statements. LOL at we will continue to give weapons. As if that will halt the inevitable.

I have enjoyed this shit show from the get go. Every colored person doesn't give a shit in reality. When colored natives in so many places got butchered by these white Anglo-Saxons no one was there to shed a single tear. If you confront the white man today about his sins he can only say that it happened in the past. Well, tomorrow Ukraine too will be a thing of the past. Time to move on.

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## Dalit

Shehbaz Khan said:


> Bongiya na maar yaar. Afganistan ko zehnii azadi dilate dilate humm zehni ghulam bunn gaye.



As if I give a rats *** about Afghanistan LOL To me Afghanistan was merely a place where we could settle scores. We did that brilliantly. You know what the Americans cry about today when Afghanistan is mentioned? Pakistan. It haunts them and it will haunt them for the rest of their miserable lives.

Now coming back to the topic, Russia is inching towards its goals and objectives each minute of the day. That is all that matters in the end.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534174302324523011

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534170808087728128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534170014030381056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534145911911337984

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## MeFishToo

Paul2 said:


> Yes, they are very short on tanks, because their losses in the first month were catastrophic.
> 
> Russians will not be able to do bold tank offensives, but they don't need them anymore.
> 
> Russia is on defensive, the front is static, and they are just betting on them having more soldiers than Ukrainians have bullets.
> 
> For Ukrainians to go on offensive against numerically superior Russians, they need 10x the amount of vehicles they got from the West to this day.


Im no expert, but I think time is on ukrainians side. Ukraine backed by NATO countries, if this interest in the ukrainian conflict can be upheld, will eventually out gun the russians with increased speed. Eventually western Ukraine will be armed with solid air defence systems, reducing Russias ability to strike ukrainian suply lines and infrastructure, giving Ukraine a solid base to build up forces, ready to be deployed against russian units being hammered by modern NATO artillery and long range missile systems. 
Im not saying Ukraine is any better at offensive operations than Russia, but I dont doubt Ukraine will take the initiative in the future in the south if the east is stalled.

The ukrainians have no where to go. The russian can just leave and go back home. The will to fight is a factor in this war, and I doubt the russian forces really belive the narrative justifying this war.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534174302324523011
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534170808087728128
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534170014030381056
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534145911911337984


Nice precision. They didnt even hit the vehicle spoted by the drone.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534139863435444224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534138120035344387

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534134444562554880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534128359185305600


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## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> The Pakistan hating American general has been put in his place. The Russians are marching forward and all this fatty can do is bring out empty statements. LOL at we will continue to give weapons. As if that will halt the inevitable.
> 
> I have enjoyed this shit show from the get go. Every colored person doesn't give a shit in reality. When colored natives in so many places got butchered by these white Anglo-Saxons no one was there to shed a single tear. If you confront the white man today about his sins he can only say that it happened in the past. Well, tomorrow Ukraine too will be a thing of the past. Time to move on.


The Russians have gained a few dozen kms in the past month, at a glacial pace, and at a massive cost. The Russians are nowhere close to achieving their goals. 

Meanwhile, another 7,000 anti tank weapons and long range advanced rocket artillery are coming. The Russians are going to continue to get weaker and weaker.


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## MeFishToo

Why this need to call foreign volunteers in the ukrainian armed forces “Mercenaries”? No one seems to mention foreigners fighting for Russia as mercenaries. Infact the russians and chechens in this war are being paid fighting on foreign soil. It cracks me up watching russian news talking about ukrainian defenders captured in Ukraine should be on trial for warcrimes.. Russian logic.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534081436516597764

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534264119825776641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534139339243937792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534100926314815488

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534223315597897728







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534225804342829056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1529452517037318146


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## kingQamaR

It's a well known fact that an attacking armies losses will be more than the defending one so I don't find it difficult to believe that they have lost more. What I find interesting is that Ukraine is giving a count for the Russian losses and yet say they are finding it hard to account for their own losses

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534224302916218882

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534223408862531584


Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534223243908988929




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534168129911373824

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## kingQamaR

Shehbaz Khan said:


> Americans don't give two hoots about Pakistan. They were cleaning our house in the first place. 80k lost their lives in Pakistan and you defeated them. Economy is in shambles and you defeated them. They toppled an elected government and place their stooges to further destroy Pakistan and you defeated them .Anyways this is not the topic of discussion. Russia is in quagmire and cannot step back. Money and weapons will flow from West to Ukraine, not sure who is going to help poor ruskies.



Americans had to be driven out of Afghanistan with there stooges at all cost. No country can ever be okay with 150,000 USA nato troops sitting on its border like Pakistan faced. God willing . This foreign stooges invasion who sit and rule Pakistan will to be forced out first by peace if they refuse go then our AK47 will make them .

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534102296690413569

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533800603939389442

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533856371510239236

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534289034670923778

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534299523283132416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534299060219387904

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534297778029006851

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534296154699071490

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534092497177174017

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## zartosht

British businesses getting hammered by inflation.

Boris johnson hanging on by a thread. Estonia already collapsed. 

Erdogan who meets with these western clowns on a regular basis has openly said Euro leaders are in “panic”.

Economists are predicting that western inflation will last for years…

Im honestly shocked at how badly the west is hetting slaughtered in the economic and diplomatic war. I knew militarily they would get humiliated , the economic humiliation is shocking

Putin will go down in history in the same page as peter the great. He inherited a bankrupt state on the verge of collapse and becoming a failed state. He not only revived Russia, but broke the back of western imperialism

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## RoadAmerica

zartosht said:


> British businesses getting hammered by inflation.
> 
> Boris johnson hanging on by a thread. Estonia already collapsed.
> 
> Erdogan who meets with these western clowns on a regular basis has openly said Euro leaders are in “panic”.
> 
> Economists are predicting that western inflation will last for years…
> 
> Im honestly shocked at how badly the west is hetting slaughtered in the economic and diplomatic war. I knew militarily they would get humiliated , the economic humiliation is shocking
> 
> Putin will go down in history in the same page as peter the great. He inherited a bankrupt state on the verge of collapse and becoming a failed state. He not only revived Russia, but broke the back of western imperialism


🤣


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## Gomig-21

It appears that the Russian forces have consolidated Crimea with their south-eastern flank of this invasion where now they have a connected land line & route from Russia proper to Crimea. Probably one of their major goals of this offensive has been attained. How long they hold on to it and don't get dislodged remains to be seen. 

They need to reinforce it by increasing Russian-controlled land to the west by many more kilometers and create a defensive buffer zone.

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 7​Jun 7, 2022 - Press ISW





*
Kateryna Stepanenko, Karolina Hird, Mason Clark, and George Barros
June 7, 6:45 pm ET*​*Click here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Russian forces continued offensive operations in several locations in eastern Ukraine but did not secure any confirmed gains in ground assaults on June 7. *Russian forces have likely captured most of Severodonetsk, but ISW cannot confirm the exact control of terrain within the city.[1] Russian forces additionally redeployed troops east of Bakhmut to renew offensives to secure access to highways northeast of Bakhmut and threaten Ukrainian lines of communication.[2] Russian troops north of Slovyansk will likely seek to advance toward Slovyansk and Kramatorsk from positions north of the city.[3] Russian forces on the Southern Axis are reportedly redeploying away from Zaporizhia Oblast toward Kherson Oblast, likely in order to support Russian defensive positions that have been threatened by Ukrainian counterattacks along the Mykolaiv-Kherson Oblast border south of Davydiv Brid.[4]
*Members of the Russian military community are accusing Ukrainian forces of escalating artillery attacks on Russian rear areas in a likely attempt to dissuade further Western support to the Ukrainian military. *Former FSB agent Igor Girkin (also known as Strelkov) accused Ukrainian troops of perpetrating “terrorist attacks” against residential areas of Donetsk City, Horlivka, and Makiivka.[5] A Russian source additionally accused Ukrainian forces of firing on Shyroka Balka, Kherson Oblast.[6] Ukrainian social media users denied the claims and stated that they are likely false-flag attempts to spoil Western opinion of the Ukrainian military and halt military aid to the Ukrainian Armed Forces.[7]
*The Kremlin’s efforts to censor information about deceased military personnel and ongoing forced mobilization within the DNR and LNR are reportedly exacerbating domestic tensions and opposition to the war in Russia. *The Ukrainian Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported that the Kremlin assigned lawyers and psychologists to convince families of personnel of the sunken cruiser Moskva to refrain from disclosing any information regarding the deaths of their relatives in an effort to crush rising social tensions in Russia.[8] The GUR stated that the Kremlin is threatening to nullify financial compensation to the families of Moskva crew members if they publicly discuss the sinking of the cruiser, resulting in some relatives refusing to meet with Black Sesa Fleet commanders in Sevastopol in protest. Ukrainian media sources separately reported that the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) altered mobilization protocols and is now promising compensation for wounded and deceased personnel due to DNR servicemen rioting at the frontlines.[9]
*Domestic Russian complaints about the maltreatment and lack of preparation among Russian combat forces are likely prompting the Kremlin to take rhetorical steps to curb discontent.* Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu stated that new conscripts during the summer training period will be trained with specific attention to lessons learned so far in Ukraine during a meeting with the National Defense Management Center (NDCC) (the supreme command center of the Russian Armed Forces and Defense Ministry) on June 7. Shoigu added that summer conscripts will learn battlefield first aid, likely responding to criticisms by members of the Russian military community of poor tactics and lack of first aid acumen among Russian soldiers.[10] However, the Russian military is unlikely to properly train and equip Russian conscripts rushed to the front as replacements and likely primarily seeks to mollify public discontent. Former DNR Security Minister and milblogger Alexander Khodakovsky claimed that he asked the DNR military command to move exhausted and demoralized proxy conscripts to auxiliary tasks away from the line of contact but to no avail.[11]
*Key Takeaways*

Russian forces have likely established control over the majority of the residential sector of Severodonetsk and conducted assaults against Ukrainian positions in the industrial zone in the past 24 hours. The operational environment within the city remains fluid.
Russian forces continued efforts to advance on Slovyansk southeast from the Izyum area and west from Lyman, attempting to break through Ukrainian defenses that have halted most direct frontal assaults from Izyum.
Russian forces are likely attempting to reinforce their operations in the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area from both the Toshkivka-Ustynivka area in the south and Kupyansk from the northwest.
Russian forces began withdrawing troops from positions in Zaporizhia Oblast, likely either to rotate damaged units into rear areas or to reinforce Russian defenses in northwestern Kherson Oblast, though ISW cannot currently confirm the destination of these forces.
Russian forces failed to regain advanced positions on the western (now Ukrainian-occupied) bank of the Ihulets River on June 7.
Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu announced that Russian forces restored transit connections between newly occupied cities and Crimea.
Russian occupation authorities continue to face challenges suppressing Ukrainian resistance and finding partisan supporters despite increasingly draconian occupation measures and attempts to bribe Ukrainian civilians.



*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate Main Effort–Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued efforts to advance southeast of Izyum toward Slovyansk on June 7. Russian forces are attempting to advance toward the Kharkiv-Donetsk Oblast border and around Dovhenke, Dolyna, Krasnopillya, and Bohorodychne.[12] Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu claimed that Russian forces captured several settlements in the area southeast of Izyum and north of Slovyansk, including Svyatohirsk, Studenok, Yarova, and Drobysheve.[13] Russian forces seek to advance on Slovyansk from both positions around Izyum as well as Lyman in the west after the failure of efforts to advance solely from Izyum.[14]



Russian forces have likely established control over the majority of the residential sector of Severodonetsk and conducted assaults against Ukrainian positions in the industrial zone on June 7.[15] Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu claimed during a meeting with the National Defense Management Center (NDCC) that Russian forces have captured 97% of Luhansk Oblast, including the entirety of the residential part of Severodonetsk.[16] Russian forces reportedly also control Metolkine and Borivske, two southeastern suburbs of Severodonetsk.[17] Maxar satellite imagery (see images in-line with text) from June 6 showed Russian MLRS and towed artillery deployments oriented toward Severodonetsk, indicating that Russian forces continue to rely heavily on artillery fire to support their operations around Severodonetsk.[18] Russian forces are likely using mass bombardment to clear sectors of the city before occupying the rubble—similar to Russian operations in Mariupol. The operational environment within Severodonetsk remains fluid and challenging and ISW cannot confirm specific control of terrain within the city. As with our previous coverage of Russian operations in Mariupol, our assessed control of terrain represents our best estimate of control of key areas of the city.


​


Maxar satellite imagery of MLRS (Location: 49.054, 38.515, approximately 11 km northeast of Severodonetsk) and towed artillery deployments (Location: 49.035, 38.521, approximately 9 km northeast of Severodonetsk) oriented toward Severodonetsk on June 6. Satellite images ©2022 Maxar Technologies.​Russian forces are likely attempting to reinforce their operations in the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area from both the Toshkivka-Ustynivka area in the south and Kupyansk from the northwest. Russian troops will likely continue attempts to drive northward to Lysychansk from the Toshkivka-Ustynivka area. Russian forces likely seek to assault Lysychansk without having to cross the Siverskyi Donets River from within Severodonetsk in the face of likely heavy Ukrainian defenses. However, Ukrainian forces still control Toshkivka, and Russia forces will need to establish control over this settlement in order to support northward pushes on Lysychansk from along the western bank of the Siverskyi Donets. Geolocated satellite imagery additionally showed Russian forces constructing a pontoon bridge in Kupyansk, Kharkiv Oblast, on June 6.[19] Kupyansk lies along the P07 highway that runs southeast from Kharkiv Oblast directly to Severodonetsk-Lysychansk, and the construction of the pontoon bridge may indicate that Russian troops are strengthening lines of communication around Kupyansk to better support operations in Luhansk Oblast.
Russian forces focused on strengthening their grouping east of Bakhmut on June 7. The Ukrainian General Staff noted that Russian troops deployed unspecified units to Popasna and Mykolaivka and conducted unsuccessful assaults on Nahirne, Berestov, Krynychne, and Roty, all to the east of Bakhmut.[20] The UK Ministry of Defense notably stated that Russian efforts south of Popasna toward Bakhmut have stalled over the past few weeks, and recent deployments to this area suggest that Russian forces seek to renew efforts to gain access to highways to the northeast of Bakhmut, specifically the T1302, that would allow them to reinforce operations in the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area.[21]
Russian forces reportedly made incremental progress to the north of Avdiivka and reached Krasnohorivka and Kamyanka but did not fully capture either town.[22]



*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces focused on holding their defensive lines in northern Kharkiv Oblast and shelled Ukrainian positions around Kharkiv City.[23] Head of the Kharkiv Regional State Administration Oleg Synegubov stated that Russian forces fired on the Kyivskyi district of Kharkiv City, Derhachi, Udy, Slobozhanske, and Chornohlazivka.[24]



*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces began withdrawing troops from positions in Zaporizhia Oblast, likely either to rotate damaged units into rear areas or to reinforce Russian defenses in northwestern Kherson Oblast, though ISW cannot currently confirm the destination of these forces. Zaporizhia Oblast Military Administration Head Oleksandr Starukh reported that Russian forces are relocating from Melitopol and parts of Vasylivka, approximately 45 km south of Zaporizhia City, in the direction of Kherson City.[25] Starukh noted that Russian forces are possibly conducting a force rotation. ISW previously reported that Russian forces have been accumulating personnel and outdated T-62 tanks in Vasylivka and Melitopol since late May.[26] Russian forces could commit these troops to defend occupied positions against Ukrainian counterattacks in Kherson Oblast. Russian forces also engaged in clashes in three frontline settlements but did not launch offensive operations in Zaporizhia Oblast on June 7.[27]
Russian forces attempted to regain advanced positions on the western (now Ukrainian-occupied) bank of the Ihulets River on June 7. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces conducted counterattacks against Lozove and Bila Krynytsia on the eastern Kherson-Mykolaiv Oblast border but did not secure any territorial gains.[28] Russian Telegram channels claimed the Russian forces recaptured the strategic settlement of Davydiv Brid, situated on the eastern Inhulets Riverbank and Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs), on June 6, though ISW cannot confirm this report.[29] Ukrainian aviation reportedly conducted airstrikes against areas of Russian troops concentrated in Kherson Oblast and against ammunition depots in Mykolaiv Oblast.[30]



*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu announced that Russian forces restored transportation connections between newly occupied cities and Crimea on June 7.[31] Shoigu announced that the Russian Railways joint-stock company and Russian forces set conditions for “full-fledged traffic” between Donbas, Crimea, and Ukraine on six railway sections during a meeting with the National Defense Management Center (NDCC), the supreme command center of the Russian Armed Forces and Defense Ministry.[32] Shoigu also announced that Russian forces opened road connections from Rostov-on-Don to Crimea that pass near the Azovstal Steel Plant in Mariupol, through Berdyansk, and Melitopol.[33] Shoigu stated that the restoration of transit infrastructure and water supplies creates favorable conditions for the development of an agro-industrial complex in southern Ukraine and noted that Russian forces began exporting captured Ukrainian grain via the Berdyansk Port in accordance with Russian President Vladimir Putin’s order.[34] ISW previously reported that the Kremlin may seek to exploit agribusiness in southern Ukraine to reap some economic benefit from capturing southern Ukraine after the wholesale destruction of major urban terrain and industrial plants by Russian forces.[35]
Russian occupation authorities continue to face challenges suppressing Ukrainian resistance and finding partisan supporters. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported that Russian occupation authorities are confiscating the Russian passports of railway workers in Melitopol who have refused to cooperate with Russian forces and left the city.[36] The Ukrainian Southern Operational Command reported that Russian forces authorized troops to shoot civilians and indiscriminately destroy any vehicles at checkpoints in Kherson Oblast, likely indicating the growing fear of Ukrainian resistance in the region and increasingly draconian measures to restrict Ukrainian movements.[37]

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## The SC

Gomig-21 said:


> It appears that the Russian forces have consolidated Crimea with their south-eastern flank of this invasion where now they have a connected land line & route from Russia proper to Crimea. Probably one of their major goals of this offensive has been attained. How long they hold on to it and don't get dislodged remains to be seen.
> 
> They need to reinforce it by increasing Russian-controlled land to the west by many more kilometers and create a defensive buffer zone.


They will.. methodically..

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533801478141378560


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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> If they would, why they didn't do it before?
> 
> For the entirety of march they were busy shifting their men around Europe trying to think how to prevent Europeans from resupplying Ukrainians, not the other way around.
> 
> The scene of shaking Stoltenberg in Warsaw was right around that time


NATO can't do anything in March. They themselves is not ready for this war, NATO need to shift their own defence strategy in Eastern Europe before they can help Ukraine since this war turn hot. 

There is a secret secure cable I read stating their reaction, while I cannot tell you anything else in that cable. But I can tell you one thing, if Russia invade Poland using the troop in Belarus back in March, they estimate they would lose around 70% of Poland before NATO can react, that's the reason why everything is done after the US shifted 82nd Airborne Division in Poland (That part is leaked when they deploy the 82nd)

There are reason for Stoltenberg to have shaken his boots back in March, because there is a real threat on NATO when the outcome of Ukraine war become unknown, unlike now, the outcome is almost certain in NATO perspective.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534174302324523011


I can tell you the NLAW and the Javelin tube was expanded (nothing inside) Noted that the blast cap in NLAW is missing, which mean the missile has been fired, and the bottom part of the Javalin along with the Control Launch Unit is missing, suggest all you got there is 3 hollow Plastic tube. 

I dont know enough about the Russian RPG to comment, and the AT-4 can still be functioning on the inside.

I also found it strange that none of the so called "Captured" Javelin photo I saw have a shot on the front and the back where you can clearly see the missile. Whenever they displayed "Captured" Javelin or NLAW, they almost always show the side view. I mean if I captured an intact NLAW and Javelin, I would want to show people that the missile is still inside and I can use it on them. But None of the picture I saw have ever be in the angle that you can verify the missile is still in. 

That's kind of strange.

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## kingQamaR

What happened to the successful counteroffensive reported here? Good lord, surely the "experts" weren't wrong again

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533753693593554944

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## kingQamaR

zartosht said:


> British businesses getting hammered by inflation.
> 
> Boris johnson hanging on by a thread. Estonia already collapsed.
> 
> Erdogan who meets with these western clowns on a regular basis has openly said Euro leaders are in “panic”.
> 
> Economists are predicting that western inflation will last for years…
> 
> Im honestly shocked at how badly the west is hetting slaughtered in the economic and diplomatic war. I knew militarily they would get humiliated , the economic humiliation is shocking
> 
> Putin will go down in history in the same page as peter the great. He inherited a bankrupt state on the verge of collapse and becoming a failed state. He not only revived Russia, but broke the back of western imperialism



Sanctions work both ways they effect all.


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## jhungary

Gomig-21 said:


> It appears that the Russian forces have consolidated Crimea with their south-eastern flank of this invasion where now they have a connected land line & route from Russia proper to Crimea. Probably one of their major goals of this offensive has been attained. How long they hold on to it and don't get dislodged remains to be seen.
> 
> They need to reinforce it by increasing Russian-controlled land to the west by many more kilometers and create a defensive buffer zone.


Well, they can't, if they keep on the offensive in the East.

There are report from Ukrainian civilian that the Russian is hollowing out their troop inside those captured Southern Area (From Mariupol to Kherson) with roadblock being manned by 2 instead of 4 or sometime is abandoned at all, and there is a growing Ukrainian partisan attack in the occupation area (Several report stating that there are 2 separate sabotage incident in Melitopol in June ). And finally that's probably the reason why Ukrainian has been successful attacking toward Kherson from along Inhulets River.

Russian is counting on Filtering Ukrainian into supporting the defence on Southern Ukraine (That's more or less conscripting Ukrainian to fight for them), I don't need to say that is a bad strategy.......

Also, it's worth notice that this is still the "Conventional Phase" of this war, the insurgency stuff has not yet started. If Russia cannot even handle the conventional phase, how are they going to have enough people and resource to cover the "whack-a-mole" Insurgency phase. 8 years in war of Donbas led to Ukrainian being filtered completely from the Pro-Russian Ukrainian, whatever Russian gain in this war (Since Feb24) would have little or even no local support because those support were long gone when they were passed to Eastern Donbas since 2014 for those who are pro-Russia. I mean it's just logical to assume those people who left in border Ukrainian/Pro-Russian separatist territories staying because they chooses Ukraine over Russia. Any Pro-Russian Ukrainian would have gone to the other side in that 8 years already.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534023536712593408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534021131887419398

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534019143342620674

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534355963079278593


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534218928326574081

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534302187890909187


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## Soldier35

Ukrainian soldier: Russian artillery in Ukraine is hell. A soldier of the Ukrainian army appreciated the work of Russian artillery in Ukraine. According to him, this is hell, Russian artillery strikes everyone, Smerch MLRS, Hurricane MLRS, tanks, everything strikes, Russian artillery strikes for an hour, for two, and then the Russian army begins to attack, Ukrainian soldiers have to sit in the trenches and hide from the blows of the Russian Army






The Russian army hunts down and destroys Western weapons supplied to Ukraine. The M109A3GN self-propelled guns delivered by Norway to Ukraine with a caliber of 155 mm came under attack by Russian artillery in Ukraine. The M109 self-propelled guns were tracked by UAVs and the Russian MLRS Grad struck. On the video, you can see the guaranteed destruction of one installation, it is quite possible that others were damaged, since the body of the self-propelled guns is made of aluminum alloy. SAU M109A3GN is a Norwegian version of the American M109 SPG, which was supplied to many countries in various modifications.

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> What happened to the successful counteroffensive reported here? Good lord, surely the "experts" weren't wrong again


which successful counter offensive?

3 Counter Offensive are currently in play, in Kherson, North of Kharkiv and Sivereodonetsk

The Kherson front diminished Russian line by 10Km inland and Ukraine occupied the River Inhumluts. 

THe Kharkiv front the Ukrainian is pushing the Russia back and now within 70km (MLRS range) of Kupiansk

In Sieverodonetsk, the city is now divided in 2, Ukrainian hold Southern Industrial Zone and Russian is holding the Northern and Eastern Settlement. The grinding continue.

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## Muhammed45



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## The SC

City of Rubizhnoye before and after.

March






June

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## Viet

In the interview with Financial Times Zelenskki said he will not give up territories of Ukraine to Russia in exchange for peace. The decision will be made on battlefields. Too many Ukraines have died. He ruled out a ceasefire. 
I wonder why there are so many brainless cheerleaders here why do they applaud a war of aggression. That’s the goal of Putin. Waging war to seize others people territories.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533871625392820224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534234750910603266


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534391545679552519

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534187554530107392


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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534223408862531584






.

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## zartosht

kingQamaR said:


> What happened to the successful counteroffensive reported here? Good lord, surely the "experts" weren't wrong again



another fantasy... Here is a good analysis of it by this guy:






Russians are trying to destroy the ukrainian army. They want to remove it as a fighting force. That is the main goal. And ukie "counterattacks" perfectly play into Russian hands. every professional military analyst is telling the ukies to pull back to a defensible line. 

But with a string of defeats, and moral collapsing, they are now taking political decisions and sacrificing their men en mass to hold every inch of territory. This is purely political decision. 

Russia is using massed artillery, and only moves into lightly resisted areas. They even cede territory to strong counter attacks. instead of sacrificing men in unfavourable defensive positions, let the ukies come close, and pound them with massed artillery. And they are literally taking shifts, and doing it 24/7. No sleeep for ukies. the only time artillery hell ceases, is when Russians start advancing and probing for survivors.... 

And for all the delusional people counting on an insurgency.... They only need to look at chechnya. A muslim warrior territory, with a fierce hatred of anything Russian in the 90s. Nowt they are some of the best troops fighting for the Russians... You really think Ukraine who are much closer to Russia will be different? 

Also all the fighting men willing to fight Russia have been turned into natural fertilizer from Russian artillery strikes. You simply cannot create armies out of thin air, and throw them into a battle. The Ukie army that took 8 years of peace time planning to create got anahiliated... now they are going to create some new army from the ashes? with the Russians pounding them? another western delusion.

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## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> which successful counter offensive?
> 
> 3 Counter Offensive are currently in play, in Kherson, North of Kharkiv and Sivereodonetsk
> 
> The Kherson front diminished Russian line by 10Km inland and Ukraine occupied the River Inhumluts.
> 
> THe Kharkiv front the Ukrainian is pushing the Russia back and now within 70km (MLRS range) of Kupiansk
> 
> In Sieverodonetsk, the city is now divided in 2, Ukrainian hold Southern Industrial Zone and Russian is holding the Northern and Eastern Settlement. The grinding continue.



That is a questionable statement.

Seeing this war has only been ongoing for about 3 months…

Based on previous experience with the Russian Army…

It's far too early to make any realistic judgement — whatever armchair-generals and NATO fanboys/girls say.

Secondly, if they're losing so badly then why haven't they been pushed out yet?

Why is about 20% of Ukranian territory under Russian control?

Why is Russia advancing and that area seems to be increasing?

Finally, why does the Russian military seem to be able to bomb targets all over Ukraine — given that even cities in West Ukraine have to regularly take cover from air attacks and the Russian Army is in the East of the country?

Losing?

Maybe

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## kingQamaR

zartosht said:


> another fantasy... Here is a good analysis of it by this guy:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russians are trying to destroy the ukrainian army. They want to remove it as a fighting force. That is the main goal. And ukie "counterattacks" perfectly play into Russian hands. every professional military analyst is telling the ukies to pull back to a defensible line.
> 
> But with a string of defeats, and moral collapsing, they are now taking political decisions and sacrificing their men en mass to hold every inch of territory. This is purely political decision.
> 
> Russia is using massed artillery, and only moves into lightly resisted areas. They even cede territory to strong counter attacks. instead of sacrificing men in unfavourable defensive positions, let the ukies come close, and pound them with massed artillery. And they are literally taking shifts, and doing it 24/7. No sleeep for ukies. the only time artillery hell ceases, is when Russians start advancing and probing for survivors....
> 
> And for all the delusional people counting on an insurgency.... They only need to look at chechnya. A muslim warrior territory, with a fierce hatred of anything Russian in the 90s. Nowt they are some of the best troops fighting for the Russians... You really think Ukraine who are much closer to Russia will be different?
> 
> Also all the fighting men willing to fight Russia have been turned into natural fertilizer from Russian artillery strikes. You simply cannot create armies out of thin air, and throw them into a battle. The Ukie army that took 8 years of peace time planning to create got anahiliated... now they are going to create some new army from the ashes? with the Russians pounding them? another western delusion.



I'm surprised the Russian army hasn't already collapsed given all the reports in the Media The tank drivers froze to death, the trucks got stuck in the mud because Putin bought cheap tyres, all the guns are from the 1930's and the remaining infantry were left with no option but to rob petrol stations or starve to death. Frankly its a miracle there even is a Russian army left, if you believe everything you read in Media

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## The SC

kingQamaR said:


> That is a questionable statement.
> 
> Seeing this war has only been ongoing for about 3 months…
> 
> Based on previous experience with the Russian Army…
> 
> It's far too early to make any realistic judgement — whatever armchair-generals and NATO fanboys/girls say.
> 
> Secondly, if they're losing so badly then why haven't they been pushed out yet?
> 
> Why is about 20% of Ukranian territory under Russian control?
> 
> Why is Russia advancing and that area seems to be increasing?
> 
> Finally, why does the Russian military seem to be able to bomb targets all over Ukraine — given that even cities in West Ukraine have to regularly take cover from air attacks and the Russian Army is in the East of the country?
> 
> Losing?
> 
> Maybe


I beg to correct you.. 25%.. not just 20%..


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534380649150226433

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534370863352619008


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534368487707222017

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534366504799674368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534286237221040128


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534286337481658368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534274675517181952


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534225436095356928


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534200428887281667

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534132042123837446

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## Dalit

Shehbaz Khan said:


> Americans don't give two hoots about Pakistan. They were cleaning our house in the first place. 80k lost their lives in Pakistan and you defeated them. Economy is in shambles and you defeated them. They toppled an elected government and place their stooges to further destroy Pakistan and you defeated them .Anyways this is not the topic of discussion. Russia is in quagmire and cannot step back. Money and weapons will flow from West to Ukraine, not sure who is going to help poor ruskies.



LOL it is you who started about Afghanistan and Pakistan. So you admit that the Americans are not a friend of Pakistan and have harmed Pakistan in every way possible?

You seem to care more for your American poodle friends than you do for Pakistan.

Russia is pouncing Ukraine and I don't give a hoot.


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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> What happened to the successful counteroffensive reported here? Good lord, surely the "experts" weren't wrong again


which successful counter offensive?

3 Counter Offensive are currently in play, in Kherson, North of Kharkiv and Sivereodonetsk

The Kherson front diminished Russian line by 10Km inland and Ukraine occupied the River Inhumluts.

THe Kharkiv front the Ukrainian is pushing the Russia back and now within 70km (MLRS range) of Kupiansk

In Sieverodonetsk, the city is now divided in 2, Ukrainian hold Southern Industrial Zone and Russian is holding the Northern and Eastern Settlement. The grinding continue.


kingQamaR said:


> That is a questionable statement.
> 
> Seeing this war has only been ongoing for about 3 months…
> 
> Based on previous experience with the Russian Army…
> 
> It's far too early to make any realistic judgement — whatever armchair-generals and NATO fanboys/girls say.



You actually can, there are no way in tactical and operational term to achieve what Russian is setting out to achieve. Since they do not follow a traditional rule of combat, you take land, not city.

The only assumption one can make for Russia to turn this war around is as if Ukrainian give up right now and do nothing. Or the west stop supporting Ukraine (Not sure even if this would be any different if the west stop supporting Ukraine with heavy weapon) Russia force like in March, have culminated. Which mean they have achieved what they can at the current circumstance. 

I don't see Russia be able to make any significant gain after this.



kingQamaR said:


> Secondly, if they're losing so badly then why haven't they been pushed out yet?



The thing is, they are. As I said, they were pushed 10km closer to Kherson and off the west bank of Inhulets river and all the way outside their Railway support in Kharkiv and as of right now, the entire Russian Northern Line of Communication in Kupiansk are within MLRS range, which mean when not if, those M270 and HIMARS came, they are going to pound Kupiansk and taken out the entire Northern Supply line. And as long as Russia focus on Sieverodonetsk, they aren't going to push the Ukrainian back.

As I explained 2 days before, this is exactly why Ukrainian counter attacked now instead of wait til Russian settle in Sieverodonetsk, as long as they keep doing so, it draw the Russian troop in the region, kind of like how Ukrainian uses Mariupol to stop Russian advance in the East, where they were blogged down for at least 50 days, the only different is, back then Ukrainian does not have heavy weapon they can counter attacked, they do now. And they are doing it now. And if Ukrainian loses Sieverodonestsk, that's not a big deal, it's not a transport hub, it's not an industrial base, it's not a strategic important city. 



kingQamaR said:


> Why is about 20% of Ukranian territory under Russian control?



Again, 21 % of land is under Russia control, however, 11% of those (Donbas and Crimea) are already under Russian Control(well separatist, but same, same) since 2014 anyway, so for this 104 days of war, they took roughly 9% of Ukrainian land, effectively that 1 day in 2014 have fare much better than the entire 104 days of war......Also, that number also decreased from Feb 24, before it was around 34% (WIth North Kyiv, Chernihiv, Sumy, Kharkiv, Kherson, Donbass) then it was somewhere around 25% in April when Russia vacated Kyiv and Chernihiv, then it was 21% now since May when Russia vacated Sumy, Kharkiv and only Donbas and Kherson left. 



kingQamaR said:


> Why is Russia advancing and that area seems to be increasing?
> 
> Finally, why does the Russian military seem to be able to bomb targets all over Ukraine — given that even cities in West Ukraine have to regularly take cover from air attacks and the Russian Army is in the East of the country?


They can't target the entire Ukraine, they can at most lob missile on Western Part of the Ukraine, and that too had gone dry, there are only 16 missile attack in West Ukraine (including Mykolaiv) for the entire May. I won't say it was "Regularly" being bomb, I was in Kyiv for 6 weeks, and Kyiv is only bombed once (When the UN guy came). 



> Losing?
> 
> Maybe



You need to look at the big picture, not just localised fighting, the entire war in 3 months Russia has losing a lot of ground since. And even with a concentrated attack, they are not gaining enough ground to achieve their Strategic Objective, which is to secure the entire Donbas. Given if they have enough resources to actually pull this off, with the current advance rate (around 500 meters to 1 km a day, it would take them around 2 years to complete the Donbas, another 2 years to get to Odessa......

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## Dalit

__





Loading…






www.bbc.com





More than 1,000 Ukrainian soldiers captured in Mariupol have reportedly been transferred to Russia, according to state-owned Russian news agency Itar-Tass quoting a source


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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians have gained a few dozen kms in the past month, at a glacial pace, and at a massive cost. The Russians are nowhere close to achieving their goals.
> 
> Meanwhile, another 7,000 anti tank weapons and long range advanced rocket artillery are coming. The Russians are going to continue to get weaker and weaker.



We will see. Did you find the WMDs in Iraq?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534450060938948608

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534385923181387779


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## SalarHaqq

sammuel said:


> You are welcome to bring any other source you like , that points to Your country Iran and Russia , being on top when it comes to freedom of speech.
> 
> Other than the source " because i said so "
> 
> ~



There was no "because I said so" in my last reply, where I formulated concrete, detailed reasons underlying my conclusion. In fact the RSF ranking you treat as objective truth is akin to "I said so" because there is no visible justification nor any explanation given, only Reporters Beyond Borders, a biased organization saying so.

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## sammuel

SalarHaqq said:


> There was no "because I said so" in my last reply, where I formulated concrete, detailed reasons underlying my conclusion. In fact the RSF ranking you treat as objective truth is akin to "I said so" because there is no visible justification nor any explanation given, only Reporters Beyond Borders, a biased organization saying so.



In other words you have no source to support your claim that Iran is not , one of the worst countries , when it comes to freedom of the press . far behind what is custom in the west , unlike what you falsely claimed.

And you expect us to believe that a Muslim dictatorship has more freedom of speech than western democracies , yet cant bring one source to support your claim.

People here might think you are not telling them the truth.

Why are you trying to mislead the people in this forum ? Not all are blind here.



Iran freedom of the press , 178 out of 180 countries :



177Turkmenistan25.01178Iran23.22179Eritrea19.62180North Korea13.9










World Press Freedom Index 2022 List: Norway tops the index, India plummeted to the 150th position


Norway emerged as the top performer while North Korea is the worst-performing country on the World Press Freedom Index 2022. India has plummeted to




www.jagranjosh.com

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534296922839719936

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## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> which successful counter offensive?
> 
> 3 Counter Offensive are currently in play, in Kherson, North of Kharkiv and Sivereodonetsk
> 
> The Kherson front diminished Russian line by 10Km inland and Ukraine occupied the River Inhumluts.
> 
> THe Kharkiv front the Ukrainian is pushing the Russia back and now within 70km (MLRS range) of Kupiansk
> 
> In Sieverodonetsk, the city is now divided in 2, Ukrainian hold Southern Industrial Zone and Russian is holding the Northern and Eastern Settlement. The grinding continue.
> 
> 
> You actually can, there are no way in tactical and operational term to achieve what Russian is setting out to achieve. Since they do not follow a traditional rule of combat, you take land, not city.
> 
> The only assumption one can make for Russia to turn this war around is as if Ukrainian give up right now and do nothing. Or the west stop supporting Ukraine (Not sure even if this would be any different if the west stop supporting Ukraine with heavy weapon) Russia force like in March, have culminated. Which mean they have achieved what they can at the current circumstance.
> 
> I don't see Russia be able to make any significant gain after this.
> 
> 
> 
> The thing is, they are. As I said, they were pushed 10km closer to Kherson and off the west bank of Inhulets river and all the way outside their Railway support in Kharkiv and as of right now, the entire Russian Northern Line of Communication in Kupiansk are within MLRS range, which mean when not if, those M270 and HIMARS came, they are going to pound Kupiansk and taken out the entire Northern Supply line. And as long as Russia focus on Sieverodonetsk, they aren't going to push the Ukrainian back.
> 
> As I explained 2 days before, this is exactly why Ukrainian counter attacked now instead of wait til Russian settle in Sieverodonetsk, as long as they keep doing so, it draw the Russian troop in the region, kind of like how Ukrainian uses Mariupol to stop Russian advance in the East, where they were blogged down for at least 50 days, the only different is, back then Ukrainian does not have heavy weapon they can counter attacked, they do now. And they are doing it now. And if Ukrainian loses Sieverodonestsk, that's not a big deal, it's not a transport hub, it's not an industrial base, it's not a strategic important city.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, 21 % of land is under Russia control, however, 11% of those (Donbas and Crimea) are already under Russian Control(well separatist, but same, same) since 2014 anyway, so for this 104 days of war, they took roughly 9% of Ukrainian land, effectively that 1 day in 2014 have fare much better than the entire 104 days of war......Also, that number also decreased from Feb 24, before it was around 34% (WIth North Kyiv, Chernihiv, Sumy, Kharkiv, Kherson, Donbass) then it was somewhere around 25% in April when Russia vacated Kyiv and Chernihiv, then it was 21% now since May when Russia vacated Sumy, Kharkiv and only Donbas and Kherson left.
> 
> 
> They can't target the entire Ukraine, they can at most lob missile on Western Part of the Ukraine, and that too had gone dry, there are only 16 missile attack in West Ukraine (including Mykolaiv) for the entire May. I won't say it was "Regularly" being bomb, I was in Kyiv for 6 weeks, and Kyiv is only bombed once (When the UN guy came).
> 
> 
> 
> You need to look at the big picture, not just localised fighting, the entire war in 3 months Russia has losing a lot of ground since. And even with a concentrated attack, they are not gaining enough ground to achieve their Strategic Objective, which is to secure the entire Donbas. Given if they have enough resources to actually pull this off, with the current advance rate (around 500 meters to 1 km a day, it would take them around 2 years to complete the Donbas, another 2 years to get to Odessa......



NO

Some people on this PDF are overly optimistic in thinking that Ukraine is beating Russia, influenced by the surprise expressed in media about the struggle of the Russian army.

However, the media (or at least the serious ones) are all saying that Ukraine is being pushed back. What is surprising is how the Russian army, thought to be one of the strongest army in the world, is underperforming. It doesn’t mean Russia is losing. It means Russia is winning at a far higher cost than anticipated.

Some other people on HERE have mentioned a narrative shift in medias, how they were saying Ukraine was winning last week and how they now say Ukraine is losing. However, if one actually reads the medias like BBC & Co, it’s easy to see that the narrative hasn’t changed: Ukraine is losing far slower than anticipated


----------



## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> NO
> 
> Some people on this PDF are overly optimistic in thinking that Ukraine is beating Russia, influenced by the surprise expressed in media about the struggle of the Russian army.
> 
> However, the media (or at least the serious ones) are all saying that Ukraine is being pushed back. What is surprising is how the Russian army, thought to be one of the strongest army in the world, is underperforming. It doesn’t mean Russia is losing. It means Russia is winning at a far higher cost than anticipated.
> 
> Some other people on HERE have mentioned a narrative shift in medias, how they were saying Ukraine was winning last week and how they now say Ukraine is losing. However, if one actually reads the medias like BBC & Co, it’s easy to see that the narrative hasn’t changed: Ukraine is losing far slower than anticipated


Well, I said what I said and why I say it and why do I think it is like this.

I cannot argue with "NO" and wipe out all my professional expertise without a proper explanation.

Say for example, Ukrainian are confirmed to be within 70km from Kupiansk, I mean what would you think when the HIMARS and MLRS that the West Pledge started coming? They bomb KUpiansk and that railway bring Russian troop and supply not just from Belgorod, but also from Valuysky, which is North and East, and this is going to happen, and unless you think MLRS and HIMARS somehow will not be in Ukrainian hand or they can't reach that 70km despite the range of these weapon far exceed 80KM. The Ukrainian are going to bomb Kupiansk whether you like it or not, and I don't know which army you serve can conduct sustain warfare when the major Line of Communication serving your sector is disrupted.

I mean, if you believe in Russia is winning, well, that's your business.

In case you are wondering, I made my own decision, and I don't listen to what "MSM" has to say, I write sitrep report and predicted at least 70% of the event. I mean if you think a simple "NO" would be suffice to counter what I said, then well, I don't know what to tell you...

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## SalarHaqq

sammuel said:


> In other words you have no source to support your claim that Iran is not , one of the worst countries , when it comes to freedom of the press . far behind was is custom in the west , unlike what you falsely claimed.
> 
> And you expect us to believe that a Muslim dictatorship has more freedom of speech than western democracies , yet cant bring one source to support your claim.
> 
> People here might think you are not telling them the truth.
> 
> Why are you trying to mislead the people in this forum ? Not all are blind here.
> 
> 
> 
> Iran freedom of the press , 178 out of 180 countries :
> 
> 
> 
> 177Turkmenistan25.01178Iran23.22179Eritrea19.62180North Korea13.9
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> World Press Freedom Index 2022 List: Norway tops the index, India plummeted to the 150th position
> 
> 
> Norway emerged as the top performer while North Korea is the worst-performing country on the World Press Freedom Index 2022. India has plummeted to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jagranjosh.com



Don't be redundant now. I demonstrated with rational arguments and citing several concrete, verifiable facts why this ranking is a joke when it comes to Iran.

Your vaunted source provides no justification for its conclusions. Only "we, an NGO serving the interests of the west are saying so, and therefore it must be true". Reasonable people won't be content with a blanket charge like this.

And even if they expanded upon it elsewhere, my response will stay the same and it will neutralize their allegations.

Now let us stay on topic and discuss what sort of "freedom of speech" this is when Russian-friendly users get censored and banned from western-based "social media" and when western regimes and the EU restrict the freedom of Russian news outlets such as RT and Sputnik while allowing disinformation against Moscow to be spread.

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## RescueRanger

So has Russia won their special operation? Asking for a friend.

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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> So has Russia won their special operation? Asking for a friend.


Putin watching the war on TV from his kitchen

Putin "Yup, I like how it goes so far"

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## RoadAmerica

zartosht said:


> another fantasy... Here is a good analysis of it by this guy:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russians are trying to destroy the ukrainian army. They want to remove it as a fighting force. That is the main goal. And ukie "counterattacks" perfectly play into Russian hands. every professional military analyst is telling the ukies to pull back to a defensible line.
> 
> But with a string of defeats, and moral collapsing, they are now taking political decisions and sacrificing their men en mass to hold every inch of territory. This is purely political decision.
> 
> Russia is using massed artillery, and only moves into lightly resisted areas. They even cede territory to strong counter attacks. instead of sacrificing men in unfavourable defensive positions, let the ukies come close, and pound them with massed artillery. And they are literally taking shifts, and doing it 24/7. No sleeep for ukies. the only time artillery hell ceases, is when Russians start advancing and probing for survivors....
> 
> And for all the delusional people counting on an insurgency.... They only need to look at chechnya. A muslim warrior territory, with a fierce hatred of anything Russian in the 90s. Nowt they are some of the best troops fighting for the Russians... You really think Ukraine who are much closer to Russia will be different?
> 
> Also all the fighting men willing to fight Russia have been turned into natural fertilizer from Russian artillery strikes. You simply cannot create armies out of thin air, and throw them into a battle. The Ukie army that took 8 years of peace time planning to create got anahiliated... now they are going to create some new army from the ashes? with the Russians pounding them? another western delusion.


🤣



RescueRanger said:


> So has Russia won their special operation? Asking for a friend.


They won 3 days into it, now it’s just a mopping up operation per twitter 🤣



kingQamaR said:


> That is a questionable statement.
> 
> Seeing this war has only been ongoing for about 3 months…
> 
> Based on previous experience with the Russian Army…
> 
> It's far too early to make any realistic judgement — whatever armchair-generals and NATO fanboys/girls say.
> 
> Secondly, if they're losing so badly then why haven't they been pushed out yet?
> 
> Why is about 20% of Ukranian territory under Russian control?
> 
> Why is Russia advancing and that area seems to be increasing?
> 
> Finally, why does the Russian military seem to be able to bomb targets all over Ukraine — given that even cities in West Ukraine have to regularly take cover from air attacks and the Russian Army is in the East of the country?
> 
> Losing?
> 
> Maybe


Your last paragraph is completely false



kingQamaR said:


> I'm surprised the Russian army hasn't already collapsed given all the reports in the Media The tank drivers froze to death, the trucks got stuck in the mud because Putin bought cheap tyres, all the guns are from the 1930's and the remaining infantry were left with no option but to rob petrol stations or starve to death. Frankly its a miracle there even is a Russian army left, if you believe everything you read in Media


Seriously what metrics are you using to judge success. Any western military would have had air dominance 2 weeks into this war, Russia does not.
Please spare me all the this is how Russia fights slowly grinding, they’re an utter disgrace of a fighting force and this is coming from someone who highly respected them 3 months ago

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## RoadAmerica

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534368487707222017
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534366504799674368
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534286237221040128


Looks like they’re short on transportation for that squad of super duper special guys



Dalit said:


> We will see. Did you find the WMDs in Iraq?


Deflect, seems like a typical tactic here when you can’t argue any longer 🤣


----------



## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534296922839719936


More then half our inflation is due to energy prices. Thanks to putins colonial war….
If you are going to copy paste propaganda atleast choose something that is not so insulting to our intelligence. 


Another big cause is the shortages due to logistic still being disrupted just after corona. 

And thirdly. Yes…are the banks printing money.


----------



## SalarHaqq

RescueRanger said:


> So has Russia won their special operation? Asking for a friend.



Ukraine has won: it ceded 20% of its territory to Russia, in exchange for victory.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534459101081653248


RescueRanger said:


> So has Russia won their special operation? Asking for a friend.



Of course they are. Look they are capturing highly strategical villages and settlements. Just losing entire BTGs along the way but it's just a small detail.


----------



## jamahir

Raffie said:


> Do you know how to recognize a good song? It's rearranged in all possible styles and everybody loves it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Путин-Хуйло (Putin Khuilo) means...Putin d*ckhead
> View attachment 852336
> 
> In front of the Kremlin:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian Army parade :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dubstep remix
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Folk version:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ7m4BLV58w
> Luga Style Beatz remix :
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXrJ0-7p88Q
> Dj Martin Garrix , Dj Haywall , Dj Sand_Storm Techno mix:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f1x_lFMdSU
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kVRGC1l3VA
> Vilnius live version, in front of the Russian embassy (Jazz) :
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEzFm4MZIyE
> Dance Club Mix
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SbYT0DtJQ8
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO5PCqJjn8Y
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY9cHT3OX14
> Punk-rock
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40Josey2VGQ
> Salar de Uyuni in Bolivia:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3DXRzRGGX4



Russians sing your UkroNazis a hello :


The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533948833046138881

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## Iron Shrappenel

RescueRanger said:


> So has Russia won their special operation? Asking for a friend.


Stay humble my guy ...

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## Paul2

kingQamaR said:


> I'm surprised the Russian army hasn't already collapsed given all the reports in the Media The tank drivers froze to death, the trucks got stuck in the mud because Putin bought cheap tyres, all the guns are from the 1930's and the remaining infantry were left with no option but to rob petrol stations or starve to death. Frankly its a miracle there even is a Russian army left, if you believe everything you read in Media



Because they learnt, and after few shot, fired, replaced generals they scaled back their ambitions, and started fighting by the book.

The west has squandered the precious opportunity to capitalise on Russian screwups early on. Such opportunity is only given once.

It's summer now, the front has unfolded, stalled, and supply issues are nowhere near as damaging.

When the winter will start, we will see less fighting in the field, and even more brutal losses to artillery. It will be then when the bets will rise to bigger cities, as both sides will pull their forces there.

I still see the picture being static for 1+ month:

Russians have 7 armies worth of cannon fodder, and artillery.

They lose ~2 battalions per week, and get resupplied at ~2 battalions per week.

They still have huge advantage in long range fires, SAMs, and air.

Ukraine still cannot use any of Western gifts offensively.

Long range SPGs are preserved at all cost to do counterbattery.

SAMs are far from froontlines, and tons of them are defending cities.

Airforce is interception only now, and is only used offensively during the time of extreme need.

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## F-22Raptor

kingQamaR said:


> NO
> 
> Some people on this PDF are overly optimistic in thinking that Ukraine is beating Russia, influenced by the surprise expressed in media about the struggle of the Russian army.
> 
> However, the media (or at least the serious ones) are all saying that Ukraine is being pushed back. What is surprising is how the Russian army, thought to be one of the strongest army in the world, is underperforming. It doesn’t mean Russia is losing. It means Russia is winning at a far higher cost than anticipated.
> 
> Some other people on HERE have mentioned a narrative shift in medias, how they were saying Ukraine was winning last week and how they now say Ukraine is losing. However, if one actually reads the medias like BBC & Co, it’s easy to see that the narrative hasn’t changed: Ukraine is losing far slower than anticipated




Russia literally lost the Battle of Kyiv and Kharkiv. Russia has gained a few dozen kms at a massive cost over the last month, but considering the Ukrainian ground regained at Kharkiv Russian gains over the same period are negligible.

Conducting mass attrition of Russian armor and personnel at this stage is winning for Ukraine.

Time for some perspective:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533105755943227393

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534447778625212416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534434489811841025

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534483050230427649


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534491184105676806

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534294450666708993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534282675103469569

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## _Nabil_

Mi-35 in night actions


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534492329528201216
Night action again


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534533303889448961

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534536164656533504

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## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534451860668563456

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534521723411996678


----------



## Apollon

kingQamaR said:


> Russia always losing a significant number of soldiers in any war it fights. That's how it does It just keeps throwing bodies at a problem until the problem goes away. Look through Russia's war history. Russia/Soviets lost 15% of their entire population, including civilians, in WW2, I don't think them losing 30,000 soldiers in 2022 is going to matter...



You forget a little detail. Russia now has lowest birthrate in the world and is incapable to fight prolonged wars



Dalit said:


> The Pakistan hating American general has been put in his place. The Russians are marching forward and all this fatty can do is bring out empty statements. LOL at we will continue to give weapons. As if that will halt the inevitable.
> 
> I have enjoyed this shit show from the get go. Every colored person doesn't give a shit in reality. When colored natives in so many places got butchered by these white Anglo-Saxons no one was there to shed a single tear. If you confront the white man today about his sins he can only say that it happened in the past. Well, tomorrow Ukraine too will be a thing of the past. Time to move on.



So will be the millions in your place who starve to death. I personal think all food aid should be banned. Not our problem. Never was.



Dalit said:


> LOL it is you who started about Afghanistan and Pakistan. So you admit that the Americans are not a friend of Pakistan and have harmed Pakistan in every way possible?
> 
> You seem to care more for your American poodle friends than you do for Pakistan.
> 
> Russia is pouncing Ukraine and I don't give a hoot.



And we pounce Russia. The country doesnt exist in economy any more. And 30.000 of their men grilled

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## PakFactor

Iron Shrappenel said:


> Stay humble my guy ...



The most useless speech made to date from Pakistan.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534498843131355142

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534430994337566724

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534453476532662272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534141603459305473


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534460295460098049

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534449577067175936

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## Constantin84

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534536164656533504


Whenever you think Russians can't get more retarded, they manage to surprise you...


----------



## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534430994337566724


A couple of guys wasting ammo for the sake of the camera while the rest of the group is talking and cleaning a weapon .. but still “chechen SOF!”
Im wondering if anything chechen *isnt* special

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## Paul2

Nothing eventful today:

Severo - Russia partially withdrew, and started pounding the city with MLRS

lyman region - Artillery exchange, Russian force recon

Izyum - Russian force recon

Southwest - Russian force recon, some semblance of a coordinated counter


One interesting development - reports of fighting deep behind Russian lines in Rozivka, and Kamyanka in Southeast

LATEST: Report of fighting near Kupyansk - again, very deep behind lines, near Russian supply route


----------



## Soldier35

The work of Russian special forces in Ukraine was caught on video. The purpose of the special forces was to find a mobile Ukrainian crew with a mortar. According to the results of the battle, two servicemen of Ukraine were destroyed and one was taken prisoner, the wounded was provided with medical assistance.






Russian troops have discovered the first abandoned examples of new Western weapons in Ukraine. The first caterpillar armored vehicle YPR-765 delivered earlier from Holland to Ukraine was found abandoned. The reason why the crew abandoned the YPR-765 armored personnel carrier is not clear, visually the equipment is intact. It is possible that the armored vehicle broke down, since the deliveries were not of new models, but of equipment from storage, or the crew abandoned it to avoid death. Armored vehicle YPR-765 is equipped with aluminum armor, which provides protection against small arms. The 267 horsepower Detroit Diesel Allison 6V-53T engine provides a top speed of 61 kilometers per hour and a range of 490 kilometers.

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## RescueRanger

*DNR Soldiers armed with Mosin Nagants and using field telephones from the 1970's... *

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## jhungary

RescueRanger said:


> View attachment 852461
> 
> *DNR Soldiers armed with Mosin Nagants and using field telephones from the 1970's... *
> 
> View attachment 852464


I would be dying for one of those Mosin Nagant, did you know any one of them dropped one and any "never fired only dropped once" for sales? Asking for a friend

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534560343153836032

The Russians may be culminating again


----------



## RescueRanger

jhungary said:


> I would be dying for one of those Mosin Nagant, did you know any one of them dropped one and any "never fired only dropped once" for sales? Asking for a friend


Will you believe it if I told you, that these were available in the darra arms market in Pakistan for about 15,000 PKR a piece, they are known locally as "dangar" which means ***/Donkey because they are nothing fancy to look at but do the job. Mainly the reason for the low price was lack of interest and the fact that the ammo 7.62x54 is only made by Pakistan Ordinance Factory for Army only. 

*




You can also get your hands on these old flint lock muskets and relive the War of Independence *

They are still a couple of collectors in Pakistan that have them, but obviously those in the know charge an arm and a leg by Pakistani standards to sell them on.

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## The SC

Chinese Foreign Ministry: Washington's increase in cyber attacks in Ukraine to confront Russia is dangerous
@AlArabiya_Brk

Russian Foreign Ministry: The West does not consider a peaceful settlement a solution to the crisis in Ukraine
@AlArabiya_Brk

Zaporizhia separatist forces in Ukraine: We intend to hold a referendum this year to join Russia
@AlArabiya_Brk


----------



## MeFishToo

Soldier35 said:


> The work of Russian special forces in Ukraine was caught on video. The purpose of the special forces was to find a mobile Ukrainian crew with a mortar. According to the results of the battle, two servicemen of Ukraine were destroyed and one was taken prisoner, the wounded was provided with medical assistance.


Russian special forces wearing blue sneakers?

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## The SC

Urgent | Ukrainian governor of Luhansk: the armed forces may have to withdraw from Severodonetsk to more fortified positions
@AlainBRK


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534481765720522752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534482253035749378


----------



## khansaheeb

F-22Raptor said:


> The fact Russians are getting pushed out of Severodonetsk after all the firepower they’ve committed there tells me the Russians have little offensive capability left.


The map proves you wrong.


----------



## SalarHaqq



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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534560343153836032
> 
> The Russians may be culminating again



No, they are keeping trying to divert Ukrainian forces all the time. Izyum, Donetsk, they been trying to break the frontline every week.

It took a lot of maneuver effort for Ukraine to keep them contained there. Not as much as in Severo, but still significant


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534612723518021632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534594600295342081

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## SalarHaqq

Dalit said:


> We will see. Did you find the WMDs in Iraq?



Also the WMD Iraq used to have before 1991, it could produce them thanks to precusors supplied mostly by western companies. Then the US helped Iraq with targeting information for those WMD strikes during the Iran-Iraq war (1980-1988). Moreover Washington vetoed a UN Security Council Resolution condemning Iraqi use of chemical weapons against Iran.

As you can see, when Saddam did in fact field and make use of WMD, the US and allies were backing him. When Iraq no longer possessed such weapons, the same NATO powers suddenly accused Baghdad of being armed with them and used this lie as a pretext out to launch their illegal occupation of Iraq.

NATO regimes are pure falsehood, deceit, wickedness. For the sake of decency and world peace, the sooner they're gotten rid of, the better.

_____

Iran pursues German companies that gave Saddam Hussein chemical weapons​January 29, 2021 9:48 AM CST 
By Morning Star









Iran pursues German companies that gave Saddam Hussein chemical weapons


Iran vowed on Wednesday to take action against German companies for supplying the former Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein with chemical weapons. Ismail Baqai Hamaneh, Tehran’s representative at the United Nations in Geneva , told the UN-linked Conference on Disarmament: “Iran will never back down...




www.peoplesworld.org





Exclusive: CIA Files Prove America Helped Saddam as He Gassed Iran​The U.S. knew Hussein was launching some of the worst chemical attacks in history -- and still gave him a hand.​By *Shane Harris and Matthew M. Aid*









Chemical attacks on Iran in the 1980s that US ignored


Iran denounces ‘hypocrisy’ of US air strikes as experts urge Tehran to press Syria to stop future chemical attacks.




www.aljazeera.com

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534580139945861120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534590748615659520


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534567043105755136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534555261037432833

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534561821100761090

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534549490178445318


----------



## SalarHaqq

ZeGerman said:


> Ah yes. The standard:
> Western claims are nato/zionist lies while russian/handpicked claims are the truth.



No, the standard is this: a claim substantiated by evidence is true. Otherwise it stays a claim.

Then there's also the past record of those who issue a claim. In the case of western regimes, the record's rather dubious though. From the Iraq war WMD lie to Pompeo proudly announcing that lying is part of the CIA's modus operandi, they don't shy away from acknowledging it.



ZeGerman said:


> Russian/zionist claims. See i can play that game too?



Not really. Ukraine's deputy Prosecutor General made that statement in a public interview. See the difference?



ZeGerman said:


> And the hundred thousands protesters were all cia agents?



The protesters were mobilized as a result of a CIA-led machinations and manipulations. More details in the links I shared before.



ZeGerman said:


> Fact is both america and russia meddle in other countries public opinion. Again russia is well known to fund many disruptive political parties in the EU



But not to stage "color revolutions".



ZeGerman said:


> Interventions like russia poisoning and blackmailing…



No evidence for Russia poisoning or blackmailing any Ukrainian leader.



ZeGerman said:


> Ah now the domestic judicial process is moral and must be upheld, but when the same “domestic judicial process” sentenced Yanukovich for being a traitor…then its suddenly zionist garbage.



You left out the 2014 CIA-engineered coup disguised as a "popular upheaval" which had taken place in the meantime, and brought to power a US-subservient anti-Russian regime.



ZeGerman said:


> Oh the fake genocide. With most casualties because of the seperatists or simply collateral damage due to misconduct from both sides.



...all of which triggered by the Kiev regime and its neo-Nazi militias violating the Minsk agreements and breaching the ceasefire.



ZeGerman said:


> Oh same can apply for america then. Why are you still sore then..its a pure new administration.
> Or maybe they should rename themselves.



Regime and administration aren't the same thing, and international law concurs.



ZeGerman said:


> Besides with the current war of agression, and flattening chechnia. Putin showed he differs little from his predecessors.



Chechnya was not invasion of foreign land.



ZeGerman said:


> Holodomor was before ww2



And?



ZeGerman said:


> Seems eastblock much prefers being a “weak entity” seperate state tied to eu then being “stable” under the boot of a neo sovjet regime…
> 
> Which we also see now with ukranians fighting like lions.
> 
> heavens forbid that they can choose.
> Back, back to being a russian colony!



No, your American friends have been reserving this fate for non-European nation-states essentially. The eastern European ones they're happy to enfeoff in a more "classical" way.

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----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534447630906191872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534085084516601857

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534611226092662789

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533905764519141376

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
3


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534532274976342018

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534572661506027521

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534521155691941889

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534450257882488834

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Nuclear Clown

RoadAmerica said:


> Seriously what metrics are you using to judge success. Any western military would have had air dominance 2 weeks into this war, Russia does not.
> Please spare me all the this is how Russia fights slowly grinding, they’re an utter disgrace of a fighting force and this is coming from someone who highly respected them 3 months ago


You can't win a war through air power alone... 
But you're assured not to win without air superiority...
And since RuAF can't even deal with Soviet SAMs built by gran-dad...
The not so long ago alleged 3rd most powerful army on the planet got bogged down by an armed force with a budget that compares to Czechia, Portugal, Argentina or 50% more than Peru or Ecuador

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534472847036502018Imagine a pincher or a teckel confronting a hyena and keeping up with it, it's how Ukraine does with the Orcs


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534449659703336960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534444229740699649

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534501851789402118

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534491370420948998

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534521155691941889


Thats insane. Its not like Russia did anything remotely close to that, like flattening entire villages and terrorbombing critical infrastructure all over Ukraine.


----------



## The SC

Raffie said:


> You can't win a war through air power alone...
> But you're assured not to win without air superiority...
> And since RuAF can't even deal with Soviet SAMs built by gran-dad...
> The not so long ago alleged 3rd most powerful army on the planet got bogged down by an armed force with a budget that compares to Czechia, Portugal, Argentina or 50% more than Peru or Ecuador
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534472847036502018Imagine a pincher or a teckel confronting a hyena and keeping up with it, it's how Ukraine does with the Orcs


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534485986155151362

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534451288162897922

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534624452549529606

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534624345837936641

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Nuclear Clown

jhungary said:


> I would be dying for one of those Mosin Nagant, did you know any one of them dropped one and any "never fired only dropped once" for sales? Asking for a friend


Very easy to get a Mosin for about €350-400 in western Europe, about 1942-1945 era, new old stocks, straight out of cosmoline : most of gunhops have stockpiles, all that is needed is a hunting/sportshooting licence. I think that rounds are at about €0.37 per unit if bought in boxes of 400... Probably one of the best bangs for the buck if you want to have hog/deer meat on the table, put a Bushell Dudn'n'Dawn on it and it will do wonders if you think that .300winch-mag has too much kick and/or .308w is too expensive per round. If made tacticool, these are very good snipers, I know people doing great in competitions using customized Mosins...


----------



## Primus

@LeGenD 

Can you deal with this racist kuta @Raffie once and for all please?

Reactions: Like Like:
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1


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## Nuclear Clown

The SC said:


>


Orcas are as dumb as Orcs... It near always ends this way





While, when it comes to the Russian tanks migration




When it comes to Russian Bear migration...


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534613661507010560
Americans lighting up the Russians

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534624345837936641


Robbing and looting which was the goal all along.

Reactions: Love Love:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534382213634064384

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534624014030848007

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534617279077523458

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534615150963171328

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534616675634520064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534616491315937281

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534616256409751553

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534615731563798533

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## Hack-Hook

DF41 said:


> .


wonder Russia have any other song beside the Katyusha Song to insight nationalistic feeling of their youngsters in last 3 months at least I heard 30 version of it, i can now recite it from memory


----------



## Nuclear Clown

SalarHaqq said:


> Chechnya was not invasion of foreign land.


Lies! Boris Yeltsin signed Chechnya independence. Chechnya is illegally occupied by Russia



SalarHaqq said:


>


These are pure blasphemes!!!

Christians don't condone war... Russian so-called Orthodox church is led by an ex-KGB roach who even has nuclear weapons baptized... Last time a clergy posing as Christian baptized weapons was under the Nazi regime...





Christianity doesn't calls for genocide, patriarch Kyrill does...





Meanwhile, Jesus says : "Love your enemy like your brother"...



SalarHaqq said:


> Then there's also the past record of those who issue a claim. In the case of western regimes, the record's rather dubious though. From the Iraq war WMD lie to Pompeo proudly announcing that lying is part of the CIA's modus operandi, they don't shy away from acknowledging it.


Pompeo didn't got involved in the CIA before 2017 and guess what? The modus operandi of any intelligence agency is ALL ABOUT DECEPTION !!!
The KGB went even as far as inventing an artificial people to pose as victims fighting for freedom and to build a demographic weapon from these suckers!!!
FSB blew two residential buildings, killing about 300 in Moscow, as a false flag for an invasion... The Tsar's "secret police" forged the "Protocol of the elders of Zion" as a blood libel to start pogroms, not speaking about Muhammad with the Hudaibiyah fake peace treaty...



SalarHaqq said:


> The protesters were mobilized as a result of a CIA-led machinations and manipulations. More details in the links I shared before.


That's your FSB narrative, and even tho, Ukraine is a sovereign nation, it's NOT Russia's business
The protesters were mobilized as a result of a CIA-led machinations and manipulations. More details in the links I shared before.



SalarHaqq said:


> No evidence for Russia poisoning or blackmailing any Ukrainian leader.


Just invading the country in absolute violations of all international laws...


SalarHaqq said:


> You left out the 2014 CIA-engineered coup disguised as a "popular upheaval" which had taken place in the meantime, and brought to power a US-subservient anti-Russian regime.


Yanukovych was impeached by the Ukrainian parliament, this wasn't a coup,
Article 111 of the Ukrainian Constitution states that "The President of Ukraine may be removed from office ... by the majority of the constitutional composition of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine by the procedure of impeachment
Yanukovych was elected with a program of entering the EU. The Euromaidan protests started the day Yanukovych abruptly changed his mind on an Association Agreement with the European Union, deciding to strengthen economic ties with Russia instead. It has to be noted that Yanukovych was jailing all his political opponents, started to enforce anti-fee-speech laws, control the press and all the shit Putin previously did into Russia to put his lasting tyranny in motion...



SalarHaqq said:


> ...all of which triggered by the Kiev regime and its neo-Nazi militias violating the Minsk agreements and breaching the ceasefire.


Nothing says anti-Nazi like scaring a chief-rabbi out of your country...

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534232104824975360And...











SalarHaqq said:


> And?
> No, your American friends have been reserving this fate for non-European nation-states essentially. The eastern European ones they're happy to enfeoff in a more "classical" way.


You know what? 
There are two points to consider : 
1. Putin has a hard time replacing the Orcs killed in Ukraine, even by no more limiting induction age in a country of 145M. Putin is recruiting Syrians, etc, as canon-fodder.
2. Ukraine, despite 6-7M people on 42M having fled the country to dodge the war, has no need to rely on forced draft : they even have to reject voluntary enlistments due to lack of equipment, voluntaries are on waiting lists! 
There is no need for CIA for this : since 2014 invasion, Ukrainians are done with Russia, and the despicable acts committed by the Orcs since Feb.24 have achieved to demolish any pro-Russian feelings even in Crimea, DPR and LPR. DPR and LPR puppet rulers even have to block locals from entering Russia or else, theses will move to the EU or return to Ukraine to fight on the Ukrainian side...
There is even partisan warfare into Orc-controlled areas



Hack-Hook said:


> wonder Russia have any other song beside the Katyusha Song to insight nationalistic feeling of their youngsters in last 3 months at least I heard 30 version of it, i can now recite it from memory


Путин - хуйло! (Putinhuylo!)​


----------



## Paul2

Unconfirmed Ukrainian news - Russians went for a sudden meeting engagement in Kryvyi, and got wiped - 1 battalion completely lost.

Something strange going there. Either Ukr side is incorrect, propaganda exaggerating, or Russians did something going against Strategy 101 again

1 lone battalion went all the way from Kakhovka just to get slaughtered 50km away?

Hard to believe knowing that they lost a lot of troops there trying to break Ukrainian bridgehead just a week ago, and they knew how much forces Ukraine has there.


----------



## kingQamaR

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534382213634064384



M270 launchers & High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems will stop russians from advancing I think. 

And, Why announce what we are sending. Let the Russians find out and learn the hard way.


----------



## Paul2

kingQamaR said:


> M270 launchers & High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems will stop russians from advancing I think.
> 
> And, Why announce what we are sending. Let the Russians find out and learn the hard way.



Some definite change in Russian stance in the last week has happened which I cannot yet understand

A lot of troop moves in the South, and Centre, a futile counterattack on Davydiv

Maybe a preparation for pullout, maybe the opposite: they surrender Zaporizhzhia in exchange for reinforcing Kherson (which will be really, really hard to keep anyways, once they can MLRS the bridge)


----------



## kingQamaR

Paul2 said:


> Some definite change in Russian stance in the last week has happened which I cannot yet understand
> 
> A lot of troop moves in the South, and Centre, a futile counterattack on Davydiv
> 
> Maybe a preparation for pullout, maybe the opposite: they surrender Zaporizhzhia in exchange for reinforcing Kherson (which will be really, really hard to keep anyways, once they can MLRS the bridge)



Being able to take out Russian artillery will in the long run be a game changer in this war with USA launches The Russian war effort depends on pounding targets from a safe distance then moving in with tanks and troops. If they steadily lose their ability to do this they'll have to take greater risks and ultimately lose more men. This is why Russia is so angered by this move and a good barometer for how rattled they are. If the past is anything to go by, they only get angry when they suffer a setback or are expecting one. These launches will be Shock and Awe to the Russian lines or there positions a very nasty horrible weapon problem for the Russians

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## Paul2

kingQamaR said:


> The Russian war effort depends on pounding targets from a safe distance then moving in with tanks and troops.



Yes, that's the one, and only recipe which worked for them.

Why they pour troops then to where they have the least of such advantage? This is the biggest riddle for me now.

The only insane theory I came up with is they want to stuff Kherson with as much troops as possible, to hold it for as long as possible once their supply line will be destroyed.

The current rock-paper-scissors in the south is air-artillery-sam.

Artillery kills SAM, SAM kills air, air kills mobile arty. Infantry, and armour do little here.

M270 will let Ukraine to move s300 in complete security from enemy tube arty, and most rocket artillery. Once s300 will cover the bridge + 20-30kms, there is really nothing I can imagine they can do. The Ukrainian south is very flat, and any small hill will max the s300 range.


----------



## kingQamaR

He needed water for Crimea from Kherson that Ukraine cut off. Odessa is the only objective that looks impossible to get

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## Nuclear Clown

Paul2 said:


> Unconfirmed Ukrainian news - Russians went for a sudden meeting engagement in Kryvyi, and got wiped - 1 battalion completely lost.
> 
> Something strange going there. Either Ukr side is incorrect, propaganda exaggerating, or Russians did something going against Strategy 101 again
> 
> 1 lone battalion went all the way from Kakhovka just to get slaughtered 50km away?
> 
> Hard to believe knowing that they lost a lot of troops there trying to break Ukrainian bridgehead just a week ago, and they knew how much forces Ukraine has there.



"*Western-supplied artillery systems are already making a difference on the ground for Ukraine*_ and it is “just a question of time” before its forces win back significant ground in the south, the governor of the Mykolaiv region said on Wednesday.
Governor Vitaliy Kim, whose region is partially occupied by Russia but remains just one of two that retains significant access to the Black Sea, told Reuters that Ukrainian forces had “some success” in recent weeks in a counterattack in the neighbouring Kherson region.
Asked when western weapons would start to make a difference on the ground against Russian forces, he said: “It is already happening ... and we will have (more) success.”
“We are talking about artillery,” he said. “It is already working in our region.” He declined to say what specific western artillery systems were working there."_
*- in The Guardian, about 1 hour ago...*


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534671711190364163

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534658482665934848

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534647547372904449


----------



## SalarHaqq

Raffie said:


> Lies! Boris Yeltsin signed Chechnya independence.



1) No he didn't.







2) Chechen forces launched an aggression on Russia in 1999, provoking the second Chechnya war.



Raffie said:


> These are pure blasphemes!!!
> 
> Christians don't condone war...



Of course Christians condone war, given legitimate circumstances. Major Christian theologians such as St. Augustine and especially St. Thomas Aquinas are famous for their theories of Just* War*. But we all know that.

___

12/17/2018 

*JUST-WAR THEORY*

*The classic Just-War Theory has its origins in Christian theology. Saint Augustine is usually indentified as the first individual to offer a theory on war and justice. The Saint referred to the Bible and regarded some wars as necessary to amend an evil. Saint Thomas Aquinas revised Augustine's version, creating three criteria for a just war: the war needed to be waged by a legitimate authority, have a just cause, and have the right intentions. The moral justifcations for a war are expressed in jus ad bellum; whereas, the moral conduct of the war is expressed in jus in bello. The Just-War Theory is a set of rules for military combat.*



https://www.gcsnc.com/cms/lib/NC01910393/Centricity/Domain/5418/Just-War%20Theory.pdf





Raffie said:


> Russian so-called Orthodox church is led by an ex-KGB roach who even has nuclear weapons baptized... Last time a clergy posing as Christian baptized weapons was under the Nazi regime...



More blatant misinformation.

1) They're not "baptizing" but blessing the weapons.

2) National-Socialist Germany was not the only place where weapons blessings used to take place.

*Polish Catholic priest blessing a TK-3 tank in Krakow, 1939: *






*Polish Catholic priest blessing grenade launchers, 1938: *






3) No, WW2 was not "the last time" such scenes were witnessed.

*Catholic priest blessing rifles manufactured by Beretta: *






*Protestant USA pastor blessing a military aircraft in Fort Riley, 2013:*






https://www.chron.com/life/houston-...yed-Army-pastor-combines-missions-4646937.php

*Collective gun-blessing ceremony at USA Protestant church: 




*









https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43231638



Raffie said:


> Christianity doesn't calls for genocide, patriarch Kyrill does...
> View attachment 852504



1) There's no guarantee of the pictured document not being fake and of the translation being fully accurate.

2) "To erase a nation from the face of the Earth" does not necessarily imply genocide. The noun nation can abstractly refer to a nation-state in the legal sense. If annexed by another entity, for instance, one will be able to consider that nation as having ceased to exist even if none of its inhabitants are killed.



Raffie said:


> Pompeo didn't got involved in the CIA before 2017 and guess what? The modus operandi of any intelligence agency is ALL ABOUT DECEPTION !!!



In other terms CIA-concocted stories about Russia, portrayed as "truth" by NATO mouthpieces, are to be rejected.



Raffie said:


> FSB blew two residential buildings, killing about 300 in Moscow, as a false flag for an invasion...







Raffie said:


> That's your FSB narrative,



It's the narrative of western sources themselves:

Revisiting our secret role in Ukraine’s 2004 Orange Revolution​Yves Engler / March 17, 2022 / 8 min read

*In the last two decades Ottawa has ploughed sizable resources into anti-Russian, nationalist elements of Ukrainian civil society *









Revisiting our secret role in Ukraine’s 2004 Orange Revolution


Ottawa’s primary objective in Ukraine has long been to promote neoliberalism and support Washington’s bid to create conflict between Ukraine and its powerful neighbour. While Canadians should sympathize with Ukrainians who reject Russian influence, and condemn Putin’s criminal invasion, we also...



canadiandimension.com







Raffie said:


> and even tho, Ukraine is a sovereign nation,



A sovereign nation whose head of state is determined as a result of outside intervention isn't exactly sovereign.



Raffie said:


> it's NOT Russia's business



The moment a CIA-orchestrated "color revolution" achieves to install rabidly anti-Russian elements at the helm of the Ukraine state, it becomes Russia's business.



Raffie said:


> Just invading the country in absolute violations of all international laws...



Kiev previously breaking the ceasefire stipulated for by the Minsk agreements represents a violation of international law.



Raffie said:


> Yanukovych was impeached by the Ukrainian parliament, this wasn't a coup,



The so-called "Maidan" movement was, and it enabled impeachment in the first place.



Raffie said:


> Yanukovych was elected with a program of entering the EU. The Euromaidan protests started the day Yanukovych abruptly changed his mind on an Association Agreement with the European Union, deciding to strengthen economic ties with Russia instead.



The signature and ratification process of the Association Agreement came to a standstill because the EU conditioned it upon a revision of verdicts passed by Ukrainian courts in past affairs unrelated to the agreement itself.

This pretty much warrants a change of mind on the part of any rational head of state mindful of their country's sovereignty and independence.



Raffie said:


> It has to be noted that Yanukovych was jailing all his political opponents, started to enforce anti-fee-speech laws, control the press and all the shit Putin previously did into Russia to put his lasting tyranny in motion...



Peanuts compared to the terror brought upon Ukrainian citizens by the post-"Maidan" regime. A regime that practices censorship, has de facto legalized torture and more.



Raffie said:


> Nothing says anti-Nazi like scaring a chief-rabbi out of your country...
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534232104824975360And...
> View attachment 852520
> 
> View attachment 852521



No serious person will seek out random, V- or Z-shaped symbols in use by National-Socialist Germany and try to peddle the fairy tale that V and Z letters painted on Russian weaponry today are meant as a reference to those National-Socialist ones.

Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS badges happened to feature many other letters such as for instance F, S, P, G, W, N, TS, FP, GU and so on. Does that mean any army on whose insignia one or more of these letters appear, is part of a state adhering to National-Socialist ideology? Preposterous, below kindergarten-level "logic".






Here's the actual meaning of the Z and V symbols seen on Russian military equipment:














Z (military symbol) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





As for the coat of arms of the Russian Federation, this isn't "Putin's" brainchild at all, rather it's a symbol whose origins in Russia reach back as far as the Middle Ages, since variants of it have been utilized since the reign of Ivan III (1462-1505). It has historic antecedents older than the Byzantine Empire.














Coat of arms of Russia - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Moreover, the double-headed eagle in essence has nothing to do with National-Socialism - and never was a prominent nor a widespread symbol in the Third Reich. Earliest examples found belong to Bronze Age Illiria and Greece, followed by ancient Hittites of Anatolia. Subsequent users include the Roman Empire, Islamic Spain, medieval France, the Serbian principalty of Raška, the Seljuk Sultanate of Rum, the Mamluk Sultanate, the Holy Roman Empire, Serbia, Albanian nobility.

Speaking of Albania, the bicephalic eagle is present on that country's national flag as well:














Double-headed eagle - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





In short, the choice of the twin-headed eagle by contemporary Russia does not even remotely hint at any ideological connection with Nazi Germany whatsoever. While regular commemoration by Russia of the USSR's WW2 victory over Germany in fact demonstrates the opposite.



Raffie said:


> 1. Putin has a hard time replacing the Orcs killed in Ukraine, even by no more limiting induction age in a country of 145M. Putin is recruiting Syrians, etc, as canon-fodder.
> 2. Ukraine, despite 6-7M people on 42M having fled the country to dodge the war, has no need to rely on forced draft : they even have to reject voluntary enlistments due to lack of equipment, voluntaries are on waiting lists!
> There is no need for CIA for this : since 2014 invasion, Ukrainians are done with Russia, and the despicable acts committed by the Orcs since Feb.24 have achieved to demolish any pro-Russian feelings even in Crimea, DPR and LPR. DPR and LPR puppet rulers even have to block locals from entering Russia or else, theses will move to the EU or return to Ukraine to fight on the Ukrainian side...
> There is even partisan warfare into Orc-controlled areas

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Paul2

kingQamaR said:


> He needed water for Crimea from Kherson that Ukraine cut off. Odessa is the only objective that looks impossible to get



It will be cut off anyways.

Bringing up Crimea... maybe they are really believing Ukraine can push into it through Kherson, and they are there to delay/thwart it?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534645255596810240


----------



## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> Some definite change in Russian stance in the last week has happened which I cannot yet understand
> 
> A lot of troop moves in the South, and Centre, a futile counterattack on Davydiv
> 
> Maybe a preparation for pullout, maybe the opposite: they surrender Zaporizhzhia in exchange for reinforcing Kherson (which will be really, really hard to keep anyways, once they can MLRS the bridge)





kingQamaR said:


> M270 launchers & High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems will stop russians from advancing I think.
> 
> And, Why announce what we are sending. Let the Russians find out and learn the hard way.




The M270s and HIMARS rockets are going to be hell for Russia. Extremely accurate and nearly impossible to shoot down. We're talking entire grid square eliminators. Those are going to clear a lot of Russian artillery and supply lines.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Iron Shrappenel

SalarHaqq said:


> 1) No he didn't.
> 
> View attachment 852545
> 
> 
> 2) Chechen forces launched an aggression on Russia in 1999.
> 
> 
> 
> A prankster with zionist and islamophobic persuasions pretending to "pontificate" on Christian theology... Can it get any more comical?
> 
> Of course Christians condone war, given legitimate circumstances. Major Christian theologians such as St. Augustine and especially St. Thomas Aquinas are famous for their theories of just *war*. But we all know that.
> 
> ___
> 
> 12/17/2018
> 
> *JUST-WAR THEORY
> 
> The classic Just-War Theory has its origins in Christian theology. Saint Augustine is usually indentified as the first individual to offer a theory on war and justice. The Saint referred to the Bible and regarded some wars as necessary to amend an evil. Saint Thomas Aquinas revised Augustine's version, creating three criteria for a just war: the war needed to be waged by a legitimate authority, have a just cause, and have the right intentions. The moral justifcations for a war are expressed in jus ad bellum; whereas, the moral conduct of the war is expressed in jus in bello. The Just-War Theory is a set of rules for military combat.*
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.gcsnc.com/cms/lib/NC01910393/Centricity/Domain/5418/Just-War%20Theory.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More blatant misinformation.
> 
> 1) They're not "baptizing" but blessing weapons.
> 
> 2) National-Socialist Germany was not the only place where weapons blessings by clerics used to take place.
> 
> *Polish Catholic priest blessing a TK-3 tank in Krakow, 1939: *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Polish Catholic priest blessing grenade launchers, 1938: *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3) No, WW2 was not "the last time" such scenes could be witnessed.
> 
> *Catholic priest blessing rifles manufactured by Beretta: *
> 
> View attachment 852533
> 
> 
> *Protestant USA pastor blessing a military aircraft in Fort Riley, 2013:*
> 
> View attachment 852534
> 
> 
> https://www.chron.com/life/houston-...yed-Army-pastor-combines-missions-4646937.php
> 
> *Mass gun-blessing ceremony at USA Protestant church:
> 
> View attachment 852536
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43231638
> 
> 
> 
> 1) There's no guarantee of this not being fake and of the translation being fully accurate.
> 
> 2) "To erase a nation from the face of the Earth" does not necessarily imply genocide. The noun nation can abstractly refer to a nation-state in the legal sense. If annexed by another state, for instance, a nation will cease to exist even if none of its inhabitants are killed.
> 
> 
> 
> In other terms, CIA-concocted stories about Russia being portrayed as "truth" by NATO mouthpieces, are to be rejected.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the narrative of western sources themselves:
> 
> Revisiting our secret role in Ukraine’s 2004 Orange Revolution​Yves Engler / March 17, 2022 / 8 min read
> 
> *In the last two decades Ottawa has ploughed sizable resources into anti-Russian, nationalist elements of Ukrainian civil society *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Revisiting our secret role in Ukraine’s 2004 Orange Revolution
> 
> 
> Ottawa’s primary objective in Ukraine has long been to promote neoliberalism and support Washington’s bid to create conflict between Ukraine and its powerful neighbour. While Canadians should sympathize with Ukrainians who reject Russian influence, and condemn Putin’s criminal invasion, we also...
> 
> 
> 
> canadiandimension.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A sovereign nation whose head of state is determined as a result of outside intervention isn't exactly sovereign.
> 
> 
> 
> The moment a CIA-orchestrated "color revolution" installs rabidly anti-Russian elements at the helm of Ukraine, it becomes Russia's business.
> 
> 
> 
> Kiev previously breaking the ceasefire stipulated for by the Minsk agreements represents a violation of international law.
> 
> 
> 
> The so-called "Maidan" movement was, and it made impeachment possible in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> The signature and ratification process of the Association Agreement came to a standstill because the EU conditioned it upon a revision of verdicts passed by Ukrainian courts in past affairs not related to the agreement.
> 
> This pretty much warrants a change of mind on the part of any rational head of state mindful of their country's sovereignty and independence.
> 
> 
> 
> Peanuts compared to the terror brought upon citizens by the post-Maidan regime. A regime that practices censorship, that has de facto legalized torture and more.
> 
> 
> 
> No serious person will seek out random, V- or Z-shaped symbols in use by National-Socialist Germany and try to peddle the fairy tale that the V and Z letters painted on Russian weaponry today are meant as a reference to those National-Socialist ones.
> 
> Many other letters were featured on Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS badges such as for instance F, S, P, G, W, N, TS, FP, GU and more. Does that mean any other army on whose insignia one or more of these letters appear, belongs to a state which follows National-Socialist ideology? Totally preposterous, below kindergarten-level allegation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the actual meaning of the Z and V symbols seen on Russian military equipment:
> 
> View attachment 852542
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Z (military symbol) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the coat of arms of the Russian Federation, it is "Putin's" idea at all but a symbol whose origins reach back as far as the Middle Ages, since variants of it have been utilized since the reign of Ivan III (1462-1505). It has antecedents older than the Byzantine Empire.
> 
> View attachment 852544
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coat of arms of Russia - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moreover, the double-headed eagle has nothing much to do with National-Socialism - and never was a prominent nor a widespread symbol in Nazi Germany. Earliest examples found belong to Bronze Age Illiria and Greece, followed by ancient Hittites of Anatolia. Subsequent users include the Roman Empire, Islamic Spain, medieval France, the Serbian principalty of Raška, the Seljuk Sultanate of Rum, the Mamluk Sultanate, the Holy Roman Empire, Serbia, Albanian noble families.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Double-headed eagle - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In short, the choice of the double-headed eagle by contemporary Russia does not even remotely hint at any ideological connection whatsoever to Nazi Germany. While regular commemoration by Russia of the USSR's victory of Germany in fact demonstrates the opposite.







This guy looks like he robbed burger king.

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## Signalian

F-22Raptor said:


> The M270s and HIMARS rockets are going to be hell for Russia. Extremely accurate and nearly impossible to shoot down. We're talking entire grid square eliminators. Those are going to clear a lot of Russian artillery and supply lines.


And what about Russian MLRS/MBRLs ?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533893459664326659

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533893870815219713

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533894250374615043

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534019143342620674

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534018623219572736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534021131887419398

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## Signalian

Raffie said:


> "*Western-supplied artillery systems are already making a difference on the ground for Ukraine*_ and it is “just a question of time” before its forces win back significant ground in the south, the governor of the Mykolaiv region said on Wednesday.
> Governor Vitaliy Kim, whose region is partially occupied by Russia but remains just one of two that retains significant access to the Black Sea, told Reuters that Ukrainian forces had “some success” in recent weeks in a counterattack in the neighbouring Kherson region.
> Asked when western weapons would start to make a difference on the ground against Russian forces, he said: “It is already happening ... and we will have (more) success.”
> “We are talking about artillery,” he said. “It is already working in our region.” He declined to say what specific western artillery systems were working there."_
> *- in The Guardian, about 1 hour ago...*


Any news of results on UCAVs and Loitering munitions in Ukrainian hands ?

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 8​Jun 8, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF
*
Kateryna Stepanenko, Karolina Hird, Mason Clark, and George Barros
June 8, 6:30 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Russian forces are escalating the use of psychological and information operations to damage the morale of Ukrainian soldiers. *The Ukrainian Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported on June 8 that Russian forces are sending threatening messages to the personal devices of Ukrainian servicemen calling on them to betray their service oaths, lay down their arms, surrender, or defect to Russia.[1] The GUR reported that Russian forces are sending messages on a variety of platforms including SMS, Telegram, Viber, Signal, and WhatsApp and that the messages use location information to threaten to harm Ukrainian soldiers or their family members. Ukrainian military expert Dmytro Snegirov additionally noted that Russian propagandists are conducting informational and psychological campaigns to spoil the morale of Ukrainian troops by disseminating information that the battle for Severodonetsk will become the “next Mariupol.”[2] These information and psychological attacks likely seek to lower the morale of Ukrainian servicemen as operations on multiple axes of advance continue to generate high causalities on both the Ukrainian and Russian sides.
*Russian military commanders continue to face force generation challenges. *The Ukrainian Southern Operational Command reported that Russian military enlistment offices in Crimea are falsifying the results of mandatory medical exams administered during the summer conscription period to maximize the number of recruits.[3] Russian police also arrested a man who threw a molotov cocktail and set fire to a local Crimean administration building in protest of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, likely indicating growing discontent with Russian war efforts in Crimea.[4] ISW has previously reported that forced mobilization in the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DNR and LNR) is exacerbating social tensions and sparking protests in Donbas.[5] The Ukrainian General Staff also reported that unspecified elements of the 106th and 76th Guards Airborne Assault Divisions refused to participate in combat in Luhansk Oblast and returned to Russia. The 76th Guards Airborne Assault Division previously participated in assaults on Kyiv, Izyum, and Popasna, which has likely led to the demoralization of troops.[6]
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces continued assaults against Ukrainian positions in Severodonetsk. Russian forces simultaneously seek to outflank Ukrainian positions in the region to avoid the necessity of making an opposed crossing of the Siversky Donets river.*
*Russian forces are continuing operations around Sviatohirsk and west of Lyman to link up with operations southeast of Izyum and drive on Slovyansk.*
*Russian forces are intensifying their operations in northwestern Kherson Oblast in response to recent Ukrainian counterattacks.*
*Russian forces in Zaporizhia Oblast are focusing ground and artillery attacks near the Zaporizhia-Donetsk Oblast border and likely are seeking to strengthen control of the highway between Vasylivka-Orikhiv and Huliapole to support operations in northeast Zaporizhia.*
*Russian-backed occupation authorities are attempting to set conditions for the political integration of occupied areas into the Russian Federation but are likely acting independently and in an incoherent manner due to the lack of a unifying occupation authority.*
*Russian forces intensified psychological and information operations to degrade Ukrainian morale.*



*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
 
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued efforts to gain control over the eastern outskirts of Severodonetsk on June 8. Luhansk Oblast Head Serhiy Haidai denied Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov’s claims that Russian forces have seized Severodonetsk and noted that street fighting is ongoing in the city.[7] The Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) Ambassador to Russia, Rodion Miroshnik, claimed that Russian forces took control over the Severodonetsk airport and stated that Ukrainian forces are continuing small-scale resistance at the Azot Chemical Plant on June 8, but ISW cannot independently verify these claims.[8] Ukrainian forces are continuing to conduct a flexible defense of Severodonetsk and are likely focusing on inflicting high casualties on Russian personnel rather than seeking to hold the entire city. Haidai clarified previous reports from June 5-7 that Ukrainian forces regained half of Severodonetsk during a counterattack on June 5, but stated that they then withdrew to previous positions following Russian ground, artillery, and air strikes on June 6.[9] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian defenders repelled Russian ground assaults on Toshkivka and Ustynivka (both within 20 km southeast of Severodonetsk) that sought to secure positions on the western Siverskyi Donets Riverbank.[10] Russian forces likely seek to advance up the west bank of the Siverskyi Donets River to avoid conducting a challenging opposed river crossing from Severodonetsk.



Russian forces continued to conduct ground assaults and launch artillery and airstrikes west and east of Popasna to disrupt Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Lysychansk.[11] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian artillery continued to defend Ukraine’s GLOCs along the T1302 highway from Bakhmut to Lysychansk and pushed Russian forces out of Nahirne, less than 1 km away from the T1302, to further screen this key highway.[12] Russian forces are reportedly fighting near Berestove, a settlement just northeast of Nahirne on the T1302 highway.[13] Haidai noted that Ukrainian forces retain control of the T1302 highway.[14] Russian forces did not launch assaults west or east of Avdiivka and maintained heavy shelling in western Donetsk Oblast.[15]
Russian forces continued offensive operations southeast of Izyum on June 8. Russian forces have advanced to Sviatohirsk (approximately 27 km southeast of Izyum), but it is unclear if Russian forces have entirely seized Sviatohirsk. Geolocated videos showed Ukrainian forces conducting artillery strikes and firing portable anti-tank systems against Russian heavy artillery in the eastern part of Sviatohisrk on June 6-7.[16] NASA FIRMS data observed significant high-temperature anomalies in western Sviatohirsk over the past 24 hours, likely indicating Russian indirect fire against remaining Ukrainian forces in the settlement. A Russian journalist reporting from an unspecified location in Sviatohirsk claimed that Russian forces will soon capture the entire city on June 8.[17] Russian Telegram Channel WarJournal [Z] shared drone footage of a destroyed bridge over the Siverskyi Donets River in Sviatohirsk connecting to the southeastern settlement of Tetyanivka and claimed that Ukrainian forces destroyed the bridge, but ISW cannot independently verify these claims.[18] Russian Telegram channel Swodki also claimed that Russian forces seized Tetyanivka on June 8, but this claim is likely incorrect as Russian forces reportedly continued to shell Tetyanivka throughout the day.[19] Russian forces are likely attempting to secure Sviatohirsk to link up with other units advancing south from Izyum to further advance toward Slovyansk but may face Ukrainian resistance from the western Siverskyi Donets Riverbank. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are continuing to set conditions for offensive operations south of Izyum but did not launch ground assaults in the area.[20]



[Source: NASA’s Fire Information for Resource Management System over Sviatohirsk and Bohorodychne for June 7]
Russian forces attempted unsuccessful assaults south of Lyman in an effort to secure access to the western bank of the Siverskyi Donets River on June 8. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces failed to advance to Raihorodok, approximately 12 km southwest of Lyman on the western Siverskyi Donets Riverbank, on June 8.[21] A drive on Raihorodok will support Russian efforts to reach Slovyansk, which is only 10 km from the settlement.



*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
There were no significant changes on the Kharkiv front in the past 24 hours. Russian forces continued to hold their defensive lines north of Kharkiv City and conducted artillery and MLRS attacks on Kharkiv City and the surrounding settlements on June 8.[22]



*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces conducted ground and artillery attacks along the Southern Axis but did not make any confirmed advances on June 8. Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command stated that Russian forces are intensifying operations in Kherson Oblast, specifically along the Mykolaiv-Kherson Oblast borders.[23] Russian forces are likely escalating hostilities in this area in response to recent Ukrainian counterattacks south of Davydiv Brid, where territory is still contested.[24] Russian forces are reportedly attempting to curb Ukrainian efforts to regroup and strengthen units in Kherson Oblast and prevent further Ukrainian counterattacks.[25]
Russian forces concentrated their artillery fire and ground attacks in northeastern Zaporizhia near the Donetsk Oblast border on the Orikhiv-Huliapole line.[26] Spokesperson for the Ukrainian Defense Ministry Oleksandr Motuzyanyk noted that Russian forces deployed 30 T-62 tanks to “long-term” (likely meaning defensive) firing points in Vasylivka, which is a likely attempt to strengthen control over the T0812 highway that runs from Vasylivka to Orikhiv and Huliapole.[27] Russian forces additionally conducted MLRS attacks and reconnaissance operations in Mykolaiv Oblast.[28]



*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian-backed occupation authorities continued to set political conditions for the integration of occupied Ukrainian territories on June 8. Ukraine’s Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported that occupation authorities in Kherson Oblast are conducting fake “social polls” in order to set conditions for a “referendum” on accession into the Russian Federation.[29] According to the report, citizens of Kherson Oblast are receiving calls from unidentified actors that pose a series of manipulative and leading questions in order to sway their opinions on Russia, the war, the occupation, and Russian President Vladimir Putin. The GUR stated that the results of these manufactured “polls” will be used by occupation authorities to argue that Ukrainian citizens think favorably of Russia in order to make the case for annexation.
The Russian-appointed mayor of Melitopol, Galina Danilchenko, announced on June 8 that Melitopol is preparing for its own referendum on joining Russia.[30] The fact that a singular city, as opposed to an entire occupied region, is preparing for a referendum may indicate that occupied territories are pursuing ad hoc annexation and integration plans without a unifying occupational body to oversee the annexation of the entire region.
Occupation authorities of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) continued to fail to provide the residents of Mariupol with basic social services or quality-of-life assurances. Advisor to the Mayor of Mariupol Petro Andryushchenko stated that DNR authorities are unable to provide water, humanitarian aid, or medical services to residents and that corruption amongst DNR collaborators is further complicating the situation.[31] Head of the DNR Denis Pushilin stated that his priority is restoring the school system in Mariupol despite continual administrative failures to provide even the most basic food and water services.[32] Pushilin additionally dismissed the chairman of the DNR‘s government on June 8, which is a likely indicator that DNR authorities have faced widespread internal challenges in efforts to occupy Mariupol and conduct the war as a whole.[33] ISW cannot currently assess the implications of this reported dismissal and will report further on any changes in the DNR’s governance structure.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534229544437161984

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534235983402651649

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534236248717545474


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## F-22Raptor

Signalian said:


> And what about Russian MLRS/MBRLs ?



Much less accurate than American systems, and can only fire one volley per hour. HIMARS and M270 can fire 5 volleys per hour.

Russia is relying on massed artillery barrages to advance. Thats the only thing working for them. Once in sufficient numbers, HIMARS and M270 are going to rip Russian artillery formations a new one.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534430526769180675

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534430526769180675

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534317359254609921

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534385923181387779

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534511617517490176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534601501829644288

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## Signalian

F-22Raptor said:


> Much less accurate than American systems, and can only fire one volley per hour. HIMARS and M270 can fire 5 volleys per hour.
> 
> Russia is relying on massed artillery barrages to advance. Thats the only thing working for them. Once in sufficient numbers, HIMARS and M270 are going to rip Russian artillery formations a new one.


Tactics, strategy, training and deployment can cover up those figures. Have HIMARS and M270 landed in Ukraine and are under use of Ukr Army?


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534697418826174470

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511245032350752768

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534668609418678272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534659978300096520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534657231890923525

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534644262654070786

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## F-22Raptor

Signalian said:


> Tactics, strategy, training and deployment can cover up those figures. Have HIMARS and M270 landed in Ukraine and are under use of Ukr Army?




Ukrainian counter battery fire has been documented at under 60 seconds. Once Russian artillery is located, M270 and HIMARS rocket flight time is 60-90seconds. And with 5m CEPs, its game over for Russian artillery.

Training on HIMARS began 1 week ago in Europe. Its 3 weeks of training, and then it will take time to get to the front. Initial batches of 4 HIMARs and 3 M270s, but with an additional $8-10B in drawdown authority there's almost certainly plenty more coming.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534334436766060547

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534285446666133505

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534282510040973312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534085694464921600

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534081464018558977

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534070108053700608

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533887072683040769

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533885975218249728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533900789420285952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533741337392123907

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534707948387172353

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534709126462427136

More HIMARS and M270 coming

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533579974086623232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533379021727203330

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533564595192971265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533580361648807937

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534615146257162241

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## SalarHaqq

jhungary said:


> You really should stop talking to him. That guy know shit about Ukrainian politics, not once did he bring up the fact that The Pro-Russian guy Yanukovych was not elected in majority on the 2nd round,



No. Viktor Yanukovych did obtain a majority of votes at Ukraine's 2010 runoff presidential election indeed.

The two candidates' scores amounted to:

* Viktor Yanukovych : 48,95%
* Yulia Timoshenko : 45,47%



jhungary said:


> Well, how is he "Democratically" elected when he only have 48.6% of the vote when you need 51??



Because those 48,95% (not 48,6%) relate to overall expressed votes, that is including invalid and blank ballots as well as votes for a special third option offered by the Ukrainian electoral system, termed "Against all" (i.e. an expression of opposition to both candidates).

Indeed, here's what the latter two voting choices garnered:

* Against all : 4,36%
* Invalid (and blank) : 1,19%

Unlike the US system for instance, where ballots do not include an "Against all" option, and where the announced final result does not account for invalid and blank votes, in Ukraine it does.

Elsewhere the percentage of _valid_ votes obtained by each candidate is considered, in Ukraine however they go with the percentage of _expressed_ votes, and moreover the Ukrainian election features that extra voting option ("Against all") absent from equivalent elections in other countries.

If we leave out "Against all" votes and invalid / blank ones, in other terms if we only count votes given to either Yanukovych or Timoshenko, Yanukovych won the election with an absolute majority of over 51,84% (48,95 x 100 / (48,95+45,47)).



jhungary said:


> But you will hear nothing on this from him. And portray him as "Democratically" elected President that got overthrown.



That's correct.

And guess who is agreeing with me on the democratically elected part? None other than international observers dispatched by the OSCE (Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe) as well as the PACE (Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe) to monitor the election.

The OSCE said there were no indications of serious fraud and described the vote as an "impressive display" of democracy. Source:









Yanukovych set to become president as observers say Ukraine election was fair


• Yulia Tymoshenko under pressure to concede defeat• Monitors praise 'impressive display' of democracy




www.theguardian.com





Link to the PACE statement: https://pace.coe.int/en/news/2753

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534659978300096520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534638261787934720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534652454196989954


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## kingQamaR

The M-270 is an old multiple ballistic rocker / guided missiles launch system currently being upgraded by several NATO countries. In its current configuration, the M-270 is equal to 31 batteries of tube artillery and fires 12 rockets, each containing anti personnel / anti armor bomblets, out to 43km, or two missiles with HE or WMD out to 3oo km. It is nicknamed the FINGER OF GOD, because it can kill or disable everything in a one square km.It is designed to avoid counter enemy battery fie by shooting and, then quickly scooting to a hide site at which it can reload, and be prepared to deploy to another firing site. Poor Russians

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukrainian counter battery fire has been documented at under 60 seconds. Once Russian artillery is located, M270 and HIMARS rocket flight time is 60-90seconds. And with 5m CEPs, its game over for Russian artillery.
> 
> Training on HIMARS began 1 week ago in Europe. Its 3 weeks of training, and then it will take time to get to the front. Initial batches of 4 HIMARs and 3 M270s, but with an additional $8-10B in drawdown authority there's almost certainly plenty more coming.



HIMARS is easy target for Ka-52M and Mi-28NM which can detect and track it with advanced AESA from dozens of miles away and smash it with long range anti tank missiles called Hermes.



https://tass.com/defense/1194307





kingQamaR said:


> The M-270 is an old multiple ballistic rocker / guided missiles launch system currently being upgraded by several NATO countries. In its current configuration, the M-270 is equal to 31 batteries of tube artillery and fires 12 rockets, each containing anti personnel / anti armor bomblets, out to 43km, or two missiles with HE or WMD out to 3oo km. It is nicknamed the FINGER OF GOD, because it can kill or disable everything in a one square km.It is designed to avoid counter enemy battery fie by shooting and, then quickly scooting to a hide site at which it can reload, and be prepared to deploy to another firing site. Poor Russians



M270 can't even beat a bunch of rag tag Taliban let alone Russia

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534600129684164608

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> The M270s and HIMARS rockets are going to be hell for Russia. Extremely accurate and nearly impossible to shoot down. We're talking entire grid square eliminators. Those are going to clear a lot of Russian artillery and supply lines.



Something that failed so miserably against a bunch of rag tag Taliban will not work against Russia.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534662249117274114

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534700539878973442

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## K_Bin_W

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534697418826174470
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511245032350752768
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534668609418678272
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534659978300096520
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534657231890923525
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534644262654070786


Those Thermobaric weapons are real bad a$$, I saw some video documentaries about how they work and in action... The best defense is to keep away..

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

K_Bin_W said:


> Those Thermobaric weapons are real bad a$$, I saw some video documentaries about how they work and in action... The best defense is to keep away..



Thermobaric works best against fortified areas because they deprive the defenders of oxygen and suffocate them to death.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532915354829312001

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534025998710317057

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532951212403920897

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534727118285811712

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## DF41

Hack-Hook said:


> wonder Russia have any other song beside the Katyusha Song to insight nationalistic feeling of their youngsters in last 3 months at least I heard 30 version of it, i can now recite it from memory


🤔

In Russian?

and Chinese?

And English as well?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534721839494201345

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534716856472203265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534700019168776194

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534688732489560064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534687310905626624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534488718081662976


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## DF41

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Thermobaric works best against fortified areas because they deprive the defenders of oxygen and suffocate them to death.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532915354829312001




Long before they are suffocated to death or burned to death, they already *DEAD*

From the overpressure that implode their lungs and inner organs and brains.

No worries of suffocations or burning at all

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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534628824457129991



 @Hack-Hook

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukrainian counter battery fire has been documented at under 60 seconds. Once Russian artillery is located, M270 and HIMARS rocket flight time is 60-90seconds. And with 5m CEPs, its game over for Russian artillery.
> 
> Training on HIMARS began 1 week ago in Europe. Its 3 weeks of training, and then it will take time to get to the front. Initial batches of 4 HIMARs and 3 M270s, but with an additional $8-10B in drawdown authority there's almost certainly plenty more coming.


It’s an extremely difficult situation for Ukraine. Almost impossible to defend. Estimates say Russia has a 10:1 advantage.
The western weapons delivery is too slow or takes time to deliver. If this counter artillery radar “cobras” promised by Germany could come fast. Otherwise too late.






Das Cobra-System (Counter Battery Radar) ist das weltweit wohl fortschrittlichste Waffenortungssystem

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## jhungary

SalarHaqq said:


> No. Indeed Viktor Yanukovych did obtain a majority of votes at Ukraine's 2010 runoff presidential election.
> 
> The two candidates' scores were as follows:
> 
> * Viktor Yanukovych : 48,95%
> * Yulia Timoshenko : 45,47%
> 
> 
> 
> Because those 48,95% (not 48,6%) relate to overall expressed votes, that is including invalid and blank ballots as well as votes for a special third option offered by the Ukrainian electoral system, termed "Against all" (i.e. an expression of opposition to both candidates).
> 
> Indeed, here's what the latter two voting choices garnered:
> 
> * Against all : 4,36%
> * Invalid (and blank) : 1,19%
> 
> Unlike the USA's system for instance, where at the second rounds of presidential elections ballots do not include an "Against all" option, and where the announced final result does not account for invalid and blank votes, in Ukraine it does.
> 
> Elsewhere the percentage of _valid_ votes obtained by each candidate is usually considered, whereas in Ukraine they go with the percentage of _expressed_ votes, and moreover the Ukrainian election features that extra voting option ("Against all") absent from equivalent elections in other countries.
> 
> If we leave out "Against all" votes as well as invalid / blank ones, in other terms if we only count votes given to either Yanukovych or Timoshenko, Yanukovich won the election with an absolute majority of over 51,84% (48,95 x 100 / (48,95+45,47)).
> 
> 
> 
> That's correct.
> 
> And guess who is agreeing with me on the democratically elected part? None other than international observers dispatched by the OSCE (Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe) as well as the PACE (Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe) to monitor the election.
> 
> The OSCE said there were no indications of serious fraud and described the vote as an "impressive display" of democracy. Source:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yanukovych set to become president as observers say Ukraine election was fair
> 
> 
> • Yulia Tymoshenko under pressure to concede defeat• Monitors praise 'impressive display' of democracy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link to the PACE statement: https://pace.coe.int/en/news/2753


Only thing is, it is not how it work.



https://tass.ru/info/6275043?utm_source=en.wikipedia.org&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=en.wikipedia.org&utm_referrer=en.wikipedia.org





> To win the election, a candidate needs to receive more than 50% of the vote. If none of the candidates obtains the required number of votes, a second round shall be held within two weeks. The names of the two candidates who showed the best results in the first round shall be entered on the ballot paper. The winner is the one who receives the largest number of votes. One candidate for the highest state post can also take part in the second round (if the second candidate refuses to run less than 12 days before the election). In this case, more than half of the votes must be obtained to win.


 you are excluding those invalid and non-preferred vote even if you said they counted in the election. They counted in Overall tally, but do not count toward any of the candidate. If you taken out those invalid and non-prefer vote and don't count them in the total tally, then yes, Yanukovich would have won by 51% but then again this is NOT how it work.


----------



## Kaleem.61

Raffie said:


> Osama disappeared from Afghanistan to be found 10 years later in Abottabad, Azad Kashmir.


Please share some video when Usama was in Pakistan. How you killed and at least one picture of his dead body!
I have watched enough cartoons. No more!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ZeGerman

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Something that failed so miserably against a bunch of rag tag Taliban will not work against Russia.


The taliban were soundly defeated during the initial invasion. During the next 20 years the coalition also did not suffer defeat on battlefield. 

How many decades should we handhold afghanistan allies? Eventually the afghans will have to decide their own fate. 

ANA unfortunately turned out to be a corrupt bunch with no stomach to fight. So our choice of allies in ANA was indeed poor. But lets not pretend that insurgency is the same as the ukranian situation of conventional warfare (with russia performing poorly)

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## kingQamaR

ZeGerman said:


> The taliban were soundly defeated during the initial invasion. During the next 20 years the coalition also did not suffer defeat on battlefield.
> 
> How many decades should we handhold afghanistan allies? Eventually the afghans will have to decide their own fate.
> 
> ANA unfortunately turned out to be a corrupt bunch with no stomach to fight. So our choice of allies in ANA was indeed poor. But lets not pretend that insurgency is the same as the ukranian situation of conventional warfare (with russia performing poorly)



Dedication and an unwavering commitment to defend their ideology from outside interference. The 3 Stooges - UK, Russia, and the US - could not understand this simple concept. Like the British and the Russians, the Americans overestimated their abilities and underestimated the Taliban's resistance. Hubris, a deadly disease that humbles the 3 Stooges

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## Apollon

SalarHaqq said:


>



How come all run away from Russia if its soo good? Why do they run to EU?


----------



## ZeGerman

SalarHaqq said:


> No, the standard is this: a claim substantiated by evidence is true. Otherwise it stays a claim.
> 
> Then there's also the past record of those who issue a claim. In the case of western regimes, the record's rather dubious though. From the Iraq war WMD lie to Pompeo proudly announcing that lying is part of the CIA's modus operandi, they don't shy away from acknowledging it.


Russian propaganda is also well known. Due to behaviour of america you excuse similar behaviour of the russian empire. 



SalarHaqq said:


> Not really. Ukraine's deputy Prosecutor General made that statement in a public interview. See the difference?


Thats my point. An ukranian born with russian roots (stalin population politics), with pro-russian ties and tendencies. 

A “russian/zionist puppet”. 
Ah using your style of “argumentation” sure is handy and gives a simple view on the world…


SalarHaqq said:


> The protesters were mobilized as a result of a CIA-led machinations and manipulations. More details in the links I shared before.


 sure like mere “puppets” controlled by their american overlord? Please, there is a reason ukranians are fighting so strongly now. After all the history with russia they have. 



SalarHaqq said:


> But not to stage "color revolutions".


This is just your pet peeve. Annihilating statehood and flattening cities like russia does is quite a bit worse. And for how “stable” a dictatorship is. This is temporary. 


SalarHaqq said:


> No evidence for Russia poisoning or blackmailing any Ukrainian leader.


There was evidence. You just handpick which claims you believe. Far from objective approach


SalarHaqq said:


> You left out the 2014 CIA-engineered coup disguised as a "popular upheaval" which had taken place in the meantime, and brought to power a US-subservient anti-Russian regime.


The more we go back the more we run into russian influence and meddling. On all their federations/warsaw pact minions. 




SalarHaqq said:


> ...all of which triggered by the Kiev regime and its neo-Nazi militias violating the Minsk agreements and breaching the ceasefire.


As did the seperatists. Russia also refused to cooperate regarding the downing of a civilian airplane. Russia prefers to lie and destabilize the eu with internet campaigns/spying/paying nationalist parties


SalarHaqq said:


> Regime and administration aren't the same thing, and international law concurs.


We do not see much difference in the russian MO. No suprise seeing how putin is a former kgb agent.


SalarHaqq said:


> Chechnya was not invasion of foreign land.


Like now with ukraine…..

Chechnia is just an example on russia’s heavy hand to keep its “federations” in line. 

There is a reason so many eastblock countries came running to nato.
Why sweden and finland come running to nato now. 


SalarHaqq said:


> And?
> 
> 
> 
> No, your American friends have been reserving this fate for non-European nation-states essentially. The eastern European ones they're happy to enfeoff in a more "classical" way.



Your whole stick is basically absolving russia based on american misconduct. 

Handpicking what “claims” to use or not


----------



## ZeGerman

kingQamaR said:


> Dedication and an unwavering commitment to defend their ideology from outside interference. The 3 Stooges - UK, Russia, and the US - could not understand this simple concept. Like the British and the Russians, the Americans overestimated their abilities and underestimated the Taliban's resistance. Hubris, a deadly disease that humbles the 3 Stooges


Hmm it is also a matter of overestimating how much a society can be changed by a third party. How easy it is to build a “stable democratic” nation. 

We thought afghans would massively flock to western/democratic customs. Would easily adopt these and fight to defend them. We were wrong.

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## RoadAmerica

TNT said:


> U been jumping like a monkey since page 1 ofthis thread about every weapon and yet the result is ukranians loaing territory daily 😂. U should stick to ur job of catching fish. U wont get a green card either, no matter how much lifting u do.


How many troops is russia loosing daily? 
Everything has a cost in war


----------



## jhungary

TNT said:


> U been jumping like a monkey since page 1 ofthis thread about every weapon and yet the result is ukranians loaing territory daily 😂. U should stick to ur job of catching fish. U wont get a green card either, no matter how much lifting u do.


Actually, Russia is currently occupying the smallest amount of land since the war begin in February 24

Between Feb 24 - March 30 Russia occupied estimated 32-35% of Ukraine, included Kyiv Oblast, Chernihiv Oblast, Kherson Oblast, Kharkiv Oblast, Luhansk Oblast, Donetsk Oblast, Zaporizhzhia Oblast and Sumy Oblast

Between April 1 to May 16 Russia occupied estimated 25% of Ukraine when Russia vacated Kyiv Oblast, Chernihiv Oblast

Between May 16 til now Russia Occupied estimated 21% of Ukraine when Russia vacated Sumy Oblast, Partially from Kharkiv Oblast and Kherson Oblast.


----------



## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> At least 1,000 Iranian journalists have been arrested, detained, murdered, disappeared or executed by the Iranian regime since 1979.
> 
> Maybe this is why you are ranked last , and not cause someone is biased towards you ?
> 
> Iran freedom of the press , 178 out of 180 countries :
> 
> 
> 
> 177Turkmenistan25.01178Iran23.22179Eritrea19.62180North Korea13.9
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran
> 
> 
> Reporters sans frontières assure la promotion et la défense de la liberté d'informer et d'être informé partout dans le monde. L'organisation, basée à Paris, compte des bureaux à l'international (Berlin, Bruxelles, Genève, Madrid, Stockholm, Tripoli, Tunis, Vienne et Washington DC) et plus de 150...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rsf.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


wonder if we limit it to last 10 years how many shot at and killed by Israel and how many by Iran.
later we talk about arrested part

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## kingQamaR

US & others did sign the Budapest Memorandum guaranteeing Ukraine's security & pledging political, financial & military support in return for surrendering 100's of Soviet era nuclear weapons. Russia also signed the agreement with full knowledge the West would back Ukraine should they invade however seems Putin gambled he could blyatkrieg across Ukraine in days before any defense could be mounted he was wrong now he's crying that Ukraine is getting the promised support this is reason we help Ukraine make of it what you think pal

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534700539878973442

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## SalarHaqq

ZeGerman said:


> Russian propaganda is also well known. Due to behaviour of america you excuse similar behaviour of the russian empire.



Show us a concrete example of proven, indisputable disinformation by Russia leading to the sort of catastrophes the US regime has been provoking with its lies.



ZeGerman said:


> Thats my point. An ukranian born with russian roots (stalin population politics), with pro-russian ties and tendencies.





ZeGerman said:


> A “russian/zionist puppet”.
> Ah using your style of “argumentation” sure is handy and gives a simple view on the world…



And yet, your supposedly complex view of the world fails to account for hard facts like these. If Ukraine's Deputy Prosecutor General lied about his team not having found any evidence for poisoning, surely some of them would have raised their voices in protest, wouldn't they? Or was the entire department staffed by native Russian-speakers?

By the way, alleged demographic policies of Stalin are one of the reasons why the same Ukrainians you appear to be favorably biased towards, are now forming a majority in Galicia. So you may thank Stalin.

Also, what Russian-zionist nexus are you alluding to? Because with regards to Ukraine, Moscow and Tel Aviv are at loggerheads.

Last but not least I never claimed non-Russian speakers in Ukraine are predestined to be NATO and zionist puppets. It's not my style of argumentation.



ZeGerman said:


> sure like mere “puppets” controlled by their american overlord?



Why resort to rhetoric questions? You can read the papers instead, seeing how the answers you're looking for are contained therein.



ZeGerman said:


> Please, there is a reason ukranians are fighting so strongly now. After all the history with russia they have.



Sure, Ukrainians are fighting like supermen... we can see that from the staggering amount of videos which surfaced showing demoralized Ukrainian troops complaining about inadequate equipment and displaying obvious unwillingness to join the front.

Although I'll concede that this mostly applies to the regular Ukrainian military, neo-Nazis and other far right extremists mobilized within regiments of their own not conforming to this rule, high as they are on captagon and morphine, ideologically conditioned as they are to engage in completely futile, statically entrenched, irrational and nihilistic resistance, perfectly echoing the Wehrmacht's attempted defence of Berlin in 1945.

This of course does nothing other than to cause additional damage to Ukraine's civilian infrastructure - which in fact they don't really care about, considering that it's affecting Russian-speaking areas for now.



ZeGerman said:


> This is just your pet peeve. Annihilating statehood and flattening cities like russia does is quite a bit worse.



Except that the purpose of those "color revolutions" was to set the stage for wholesale destabilization of Russia down the road, utilizing the anti-Russian stooges brought to power by NATO throughout Moscow's vicinity. In that sense, Russian intervention was provoked by a concrete and palpable threat of existential nature, and Russian intervention effectively averted destruction of potentially much greater scale.

Whereas recent military interventions and nefarious meddling by NATO (Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan etc) were not triggered by any realistic menace to the security and territorial integrity of member states. None of the nations attacked, invaded, plundered, balkanized by western regimes and their allies represented a real formidable threat to the USA, Canada, Europe, Australia or New Zealand.

The actual motivation behind these military adventures was to prolong the brutally enforced dominance of the empire. Key differences you opt to ignore.

But no earthly power, no matter how mighty, is eternal. And clearly, the zio-American empire has entered its phase of decline, much to the relief of mankind.



ZeGerman said:


> And for how “stable” a dictatorship is. This is temporary.



Russia's political order isn't dictatorial, it's democratic - just not liberal democratic. In many ways their model of governance is superior to the western one, and rather than trying to disparage it through clichéd catch-phrases, western regimes would benefit from taking the Russian system as a source of inspiration.



ZeGerman said:


> There was evidence.



Such as?



ZeGerman said:


> The more we go back the more we run into russian influence and meddling. On all their federations/warsaw pact minions.



This must be sort of an ironic remark. For last time I checked it was the US regime which, in breach of its promise to Gorbachev, kept expanding NATO across central and eastern Europe, with Russia essentially staying passive to these provocations. But that's over. NATO from now on will be reaping what it sowed.



ZeGerman said:


> As did the seperatists.



A ceasefire is seldom violated for the first time by two opposing sides at the very same moment. One party initiates the breach, and in the case at hand it was the Kiev regime.



ZeGerman said:


> Russia also refused to cooperate regarding the downing of a civilian airplane. Russia prefers to lie and destabilize the eu with internet campaigns/spying/paying nationalist parties



I wasn't aware that spying onto itself qualifies as destabilization. As for the alleged financing of political parties by Moscow, I addressed this contention in a previous reply: not only have EU regimes only themselves to blame if they aren't satisfied with their own national legislation in this area, but what is more, if these allegations are true then Moscow would only be paying back the EU regimes for their systematic interference in Russia's domestic affairs via support for Russian opposition figures and parties.



ZeGerman said:


> We do not see much difference in the russian MO. No suprise seeing how putin is a former kgb agent.



You may want to a have a closer look then.



ZeGerman said:


> Like now with ukraine…..
> 
> Chechnia is just an example on russia’s heavy hand to keep its “federations” in line.
> 
> There is a reason so many eastblock countries came running to nato.
> Why sweden and finland come running to nato now.



If you truly believe Russia's conduct of military operations in Ukraine is heavy handed compared to standard NATO procedure, where everything is basically flattened first and questions asked later, you'll be pretty disconnected from ground reality.



ZeGerman said:


> Your whole stick is basically absolving russia based on american misconduct.
> 
> Handpicking what “claims” to use or not



I mention and describe the characteristics of US misconduct to highlight how far removed Russian policy is from that sort of misconduct, and that there are many decisive differences setting apart the behaviour of these two governments on the international stage.

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## kingQamaR

RoadAmerica said:


> How many troops is russia loosing daily?
> Everything has a cost in war



The total absence of any battlefield reporting or discussions about Ukrainian losses in this war is very weird. Irrespective of who we are backing we deserve to hear the truth, even if it's not what we want to hear. We are adults and are able to deal with it

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> The total absence of any battlefield reporting or discussions about Ukrainian losses in this war is very weird. Irrespective of who we are backing we deserve to hear the truth, even if it's not what we want to hear. We are adults and are able to deal with it


DOD issued a estimate back in April 19, when it cited source that between 5000 to 11000 Ukrainian soldier had lost their live. Comparable amount of Russian has also been killed. On the same report. 

The current estimate would take both side to mid 20,000 level killed in combat.

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## Catalystic

There are reports that Ukraine is demanding anti-ship missiles in order to export its wheat……so its blackmail…..

Wtf is going on?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534845241127317504

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## jhungary

Catalystic said:


> There are reports that Ukraine is demanding anti-ship missiles in order to export its wheat……so its blackmail…..
> 
> Wtf is going on?


That's BS

The West already pledge to donate Anti-Ship Missile BEFORE the talks. No point demanding something people are going to give you anyway.

On the other hand, Russia did demanded Ukraine to demine the harbor before they can allow grain to come thru, fat chance this would happen.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534842074083762177

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

TNT said:


> U been jumping like a monkey since page 1 ofthis thread about every weapon and yet the result is ukranians loaing territory daily 😂. U should stick to ur job of catching fish. U wont get a green card either, no matter how much lifting u do.


 Question, how can Ukraine lose territory when till 2014 it was completly under russian controle?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534860663369211905

Reactions: Love Love:
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## Apollon

SalarHaqq said:


> Show us a concrete example of proven, indisputable disinformation by Russia leading to the sort of catastrophes the US regime provoked with its lies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet, your supposedly complex view of the world fails to take into account hard facts like these. Also, if Ukraine's Deputy Prosecutor General lied about his team not having found any evidence for poisoning, surely some of them would have raised their voices in protest, wouldn't they? Or was the entire department staffed by Russian-speaking Ukrainians?
> 
> By the way, alleged demographic policies of Stalin are one of the reasons why the same Ukrainians you're appear to be favorably biased towards, are now forming a majority in Galicia. So you may thank Stalin.
> 
> Also, what Russian-zionist nexus are you alluding to? With regards to Ukraine, there Moscow and Tel Aviv are at loggerheads and don't see eye to eye at all.
> 
> Last but not least I never claimed non-Russian speakers in Ukraine are predestined to be NATO and zionist puppets. It's not my style of argumentation.
> 
> 
> 
> Why resort to rhetoric questions? You can read the papers instead, seeing how the answers you're looking for are contained therein.
> 
> And yes sure, Ukrainians are fighting like supermen... we can see that from the staggering amount of videos that surfaced showing demoralized Ukrainian troops complaining about inadequate equipment and displaying obvious unwillingness to join the front.
> 
> Although I'll concede that this mostly applies to the regular Ukrainian military, neo-Nazis and other far right extremists mobilized in regiments of their own not conforming to this rule, high as they are on captagon and morphine and ideologically conditioned to engage in completely futile, statically entrenched, irrational and nihilistic resistance doomed to failure from the outset, and perfectly echoing the Wehrmacht's attempted defence of Berlin in 1945. This of course does nothing other than to cause additional destruction to the civilian infrastructure of Ukraine - which in fact they don't really care about, seeing how it is affecting the Russian-speaking areas for now.
> 
> 
> 
> Except that the purpose of those "color revolutions" was to set the stage for wholesale destabilization (including through military means) of Russia down the road, utilizing the anti-Russian stooges brought into power by NATO in Moscow's vicinity. In that sense, Russian intervention was provoked by a concrete and immediate existential threat, and it effectively averted potentially much greater destruction.
> 
> Whereas recent military interventions and nefarious meddling by NATO (Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan etc) were not triggered by any realistic menace to the security and territorial integrity of member states. None of the nations attacked, invaded, plundered, balkanized by western regimes and their allies represented a real threat to the USA, to Canada, to the EU, to Australia or to New Zealand.
> 
> The actual motivation behind these military adventures was purely to prolong the brutally enforced dominance and hegemony of the empire. But no earthly power, no matter how mighty, is eternal. And clearly, the zio-American empire has firmly entered its phase of decline, much to the relief of mankind.
> 
> Key differences you opt to ignore.
> 
> And the Russian political order isn't dictatorial, it's deeply democratic - just not liberal democratic. In many ways their model of governance is far superior to the western one, and rather than trying to disparage it through propagandistic catch-phrases, western regimes would benefit from taking the Russian system as source of inspiration.
> 
> 
> 
> Such as?
> 
> 
> 
> This must be sort of an ironic remark. Last time I checked it was the US regime which, in breach of its promise to Gorbachev, kept expanding NATO across central and eastern Europe, with Russia staying passive to these provocations. But that's over now. NATO from now on will be reaping what it sowed, and then some.
> 
> 
> 
> A ceasefire is seldom violated for the first time by two opposing sides at the very same moment. One party initiates it, and in the case at hand it was the Kiev regime.
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't aware that spying onto itself qualifies as destabilization. As for the alleged financing of political parties by Moscow, I addressed this contention already: not only have EU regimes only themselves to blame if they aren't satisfied with their own national legislations in this area, but what is more, if these allegations are correct then Moscow would only be paying back the EU regimes for their systematic interference in Russia's domestic affairs through their support of Russian opposition figures and parties.
> 
> 
> 
> You may want to a have a closer look.
> 
> 
> 
> If you truly believe Russia's conduct of military operations in Ukraine is heavy handed compared to standard NATO procedure, where everything is notoriously flattened and questions asked later, then I must say you're disconnected from the ground reality.
> 
> 
> 
> I mention and describe the characteristics of US misconduct to highlight how far removed Russian policy is from that sort of misconduct, how decisive differences are setting apart the behaviour of these two governments on the international stage.



Simple question, if russian political system is superior to ours...why is russia such a hellhole? Poor, deprived and without future


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534867388361068545
ATGM attack against Russian infantry


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534472608137285632

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Simple question, if russian political system is superior to ours...why is russia such a hellhole? Poor, deprived and without future



As opposed to I suppose the "prosperous leftist welfare-based" societies of the Western bloc with no homeless people, those with zero education loans, those with no indebtedness because of extortion by hospitals, no dog-eat-dog environment etc etc ? What is this ? Capitalist Western bloc became the Socialist / Communist bloc and I didn't know !!!


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> As opposed to I suppose the "prosperous leftist welfare-based" societies of the Western bloc with no homeless people, those with zero education loans, those with no indebtedness because of extortion by hospitals, no dog-eat-dog environment etc etc ? What is this ? Capitalist Western bloc became the Socialist / Communist bloc and I didn't know !!!



Why run all to us and want escape russian poverty and opression?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534859261851107328

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## kingQamaR

Catalystic said:


> There are reports that Ukraine is demanding anti-ship missiles in order to export its wheat……so its blackmail…..
> 
> Wtf is going on?



U.K. is Getting her own back for the Salisbury poisonings now! By shipping her anti ship missiles to Ukraine.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534382213634064384





Kaleem.61 said:


> Please share some video when Usama was in Pakistan. How you killed and at least one picture of his dead body!
> I have watched enough cartoons. No more!


The non-existence of a video is not proof that something did not happen.
That both the US and Al-Qaeda claims Usama bin Laden is dead and no statement from him in 10 years is enough for sane people.


----------



## TNT

Apollon said:


> Question, how can Ukraine lose territory when till 2014 it was completly under russian controle?



So Ukraine is actually gaining territory, well done dumber version of tai hai chen.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534851756546752513


----------



## Apollon

northeast said:


> You know what complete control looks like? Look at Germany and his master USA, you would know. Germany is such a lapdog that need papa USA's soldiers to protect and dare say nothing when your leaders got spied by your papa,because your propaganda machine is totally built upon USA money.



Hm thats bizarre because since decades USA demanded higher defense budget from Germany. Germany also voted for Iran in security council against US pressure, denied involvenent in Iraq and Libya.



Looks like US is a lousy puppet master because it has no controle at all.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532921732478156800


----------



## Apollon

TNT said:


> So Ukraine is actually gaining territory, well done dumber version of tai hai chen.



Till 2014 Ukraine was under complete controle of Russia. For centuries Russia exploited Ukraine and ftom time to time went even genocidal. In 2014 Ukraine ripped off from Russia. What we see now is Ukraine war for independence. The parts free of Russia will be free forever. We will see how much we can get. We will support Ukraine with evrything it needs


----------



## northeast

Apollon said:


> Hm thats bizarre because since decades USA demanded higher defense budget from Germany. Germany also voted for Iran in security council against US pressure, denied involvenent in Iraq and Libya.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like US is a lousy puppet master because it has no controle at all.


Well,even a lapdog have their own mind,and a slave can cause an rebellion.That is why they need spies in germany to keep their total control upon germany.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## DF41

northeast said:


> You know what complete control looks like? Look at Germany and his master USA, you would know. Germany is such a lapdog that need papa USA's soldiers to protect and dare say nothing when your leaders got spied by your papa,because your propaganda machine is totally built upon USA money.


Or Geriatic Joe will Send Kamala Harris and Nuland to do Regime Change in Germany

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

northeast said:


> Well,even a lapdog have their own mind,and a slave can cause an rebellion.That is why they need spies in germany to keep their total control upon germany.



Dude spies are evrywhere. Germany spied of american foreign ministry Hillary Clinton. 


There is no controle. Our nations are allies who share same values and interests.


----------



## northeast

Apollon said:


> Dude spies are evrywhere. Germany spied of american foreign ministry Hillary Clinton.
> 
> 
> There is no controle. Our nations are allies who share same values and interests.


Yeah? Germany share the same values and interests of trump?MAGA is your interest and value?


----------



## Apollon

northeast said:


> Well,even a lapdog have their own mind,and a slave can cause an rebellion.That is why they need spies in germany to keep their total control upon germany.



Just see you are from China. We have spies there too. 😅👍

Are you free to leave your box btw or still imprisoned by Winnie the Pooh?

Your comment about lapdogs was amusing, coming from a regime that treats its people like cattle. You get censored and spied on 100% and are not even allowed to go by train if your social score is too low. 



@Vergennes look at this satire here. 😅



northeast said:


> Yeah? Germany share the same values and interests of trump?MAGA is your interest and value?



Nope, thats why we opposed Trump. Trump is not USA. Just a public servant. Like a city mayor. Nothing more, nothing less.

Alliances stand above such things.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> U.K. is Getting her own back for the Salisbury poisonings now! By shipping her anti ship missiles to Ukraine.



They need to send Orion MPA to Ukraine. Harpoon by itself not enough range to engage Kalibr which has 10 times the range. With Orion MPA they can fly low to avoid radar detection and fly to Novoroyissk where the Black Sea fleet is based to sink Russian ships.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## northeast

Apollon said:


> Just see you are from China. We have spies there too. 😅👍
> 
> Are you free to leave your box btw or still imprisoned by Winnie the Pooh?
> 
> Your comment about lapdogs was amusing, coming from a regime that treats its people like cattle. You get censored and spied on 100% and are not even allowed to go by train if your social score is too low.
> 
> 
> 
> @Vergennes look at this satire here. 😅
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, thats why we opposed Trump. Trump is not USA. Just a public servant. Like a city mayor. Nothing more, nothing less.
> 
> Alliances stand above such things.


LOL,what cattles? Are you saying European die like cattles in covid pandemic?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Su-25 artillery smashers. These are being phased out in favor of attack choppers and attack drones but for now they are in action.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534823196515368960


----------



## Apollon

northeast said:


> LOL,what cattles? Are you saying European die like cattles in covid pandemic?



What covid pandemic? Its over dude.


How is Winnie doing btw? Do they really film all your moves in china? Cameras evrywhere?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

KUB BLA kamikaze drone also known as loitering munition


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534817198815838208
for reference:








northeast said:


> LOL,what cattles? Are you saying European die like cattles in covid pandemic?



Chinese are obsessed about covid. Covid is coronavirus. Coronavirus is common cold.


----------



## RescueRanger

The DNR kangaroo court has sentenced the three captured members of Ukraine Foreign Legion to death.


----------



## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> .
> 
> Actually in the last 10 years it only got worse in Iran , since the 2009 Iranian doomed election.
> 
> That was the final death blow to free journalism in Iran, after that all free journals where shut down and any blogger failing to follow mullah line risked a visit to Evin prison.
> 
> You don't need to do much more that to scare, and shut up all the others .
> 
> Don't know why you pretend to be surprised , when Iran is ranked almost last when it comes to freedom of the press.
> 
> 
> Are you sure you want to compete with a democracy when it comes to freedom of the press ?
> 
> The only reason you have the nerve to argue about it , is cause you lived in a dictatorship for too long.
> 
> You have no idea what it is like to live in a democracy , or you would know you really have no leg to stand on , in this argument.
> 
> 
> 
> *Here is what Iranian cartoonist , Nikahang Kowsar , thinks of " free press in Iran :*
> 
> 
> Maybe you can explain why artists like Nikahang Kowsar , no longer work in Iran but imigrated to where they can work in freedom , long ago . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nikahang Kowsar - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


count the headshots


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534814811166347264


RescueRanger said:


> The DNR kangaroo court has sentenced the three captured members of Ukraine Foreign Legion to death.



That'll deter any foreigner from joining the battle. No chance of survival if captured.

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## RescueRanger

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534814811166347264
> 
> 
> That'll deter any foreigner from joining the battle. No chance of survival if captured.


On the contrary - furthermore it’s just another nail in Russia’s coffin when the trials start in the Hague.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RescueRanger said:


> On the contrary - furthermore it’s just another nail in Russia’s coffin when the trials start in the Hague.



Western men should stay in the West where life is good. Don't go to Donbas. Don't live in poverty on the front. Don't get killed when caught. Stay in the West. Stay.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534867388361068545


----------



## Primus

RescueRanger said:


> The DNR kangaroo court has sentenced the three captured members of Ukraine Foreign Legion to death.


Who isnt a Kangaroo in this war 😐

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## RescueRanger

Huffal said:


> Who isnt a Kangaroo in this war 😐


Read this tweet it’s FUBAR:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534820098975977472

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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## MeFishToo

SalarHaqq said:


> Show us a concrete example of proven, indisputable disinformation by Russia leading to the sort of catastrophes the US regime has been provoking with its lies.


Ukraine?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Viet

Back to USSR

Per IIF, Russia economy will shrink combined 18 percent this year and next. All 15y economic gains are wiped out.
30 years foreign investments are going down the toilet.









Russia's economic slump will wipe out 15 years of gains - IIF


Russia's economy will shrink 15% this year and 3% in 2023 as the hit from Western sanctions, an exodus of companies, a Russian "brain-drain" and collapse in exports wipe out 15 years of economic gains, a global banking industry lobby group said.




www.reuters.com

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534804578394378240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534797553983754241


Viet said:


> Back to USSR
> 
> Per IIF, Russia economy will shrink combined 18 percent this year and next. All 15y economic gains are wiped out.
> 30 years foreign investments are going down the toilet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia's economic slump will wipe out 15 years of gains - IIF
> 
> 
> Russia's economy will shrink 15% this year and 3% in 2023 as the hit from Western sanctions, an exodus of companies, a Russian "brain-drain" and collapse in exports wipe out 15 years of economic gains, a global banking industry lobby group said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com



No pain. No gain. This makes Russia independent. Just like 1989 Western sanction made China's domestic defense industry independent.


----------



## ZeGerman

SalarHaqq said:


> Show us a concrete example of proven, indisputable disinformation by Russia leading to the sort of catastrophes the US regime has been provoking with its lies.


Which catastrophes you want? 
Holodomor?
Warsaw?
Their abuse of the warsaw pact
Afghanistan
Chechnia (fsb staged attack)
And now Ukraine. “Denazifying”

They also support extremist and nationalistic forces in our society. That their manipulations were less effective at times is not for not trying. 



SalarHaqq said:


> And yet, your supposedly complex view of the world fails to account for hard facts like these. If Ukraine's Deputy Prosecutor General lied about his team not having found any evidence for poisoning, surely some of them would have raised their voices in protest, wouldn't they? Or was the entire department staffed by native Russian-speakers?


there was evidence for poisoning. 
Kuzmin wanted their “own” bloodtest (with risk of manipulation).
Not something to object and lose your job over. 



SalarHaqq said:


> By the way, alleged demographic policies of Stalin are one of the reasons why the same Ukrainians you appear to be favorably biased towards, are now forming a majority in Galicia. So you may thank Stalin.





SalarHaqq said:


> Also, what Russian-zionist nexus are you alluding to? Because with regards to Ukraine, Moscow and Tel Aviv are at loggerheads.


I know, just adding “zionist puppet” like you do on opposing claims. 


SalarHaqq said:


> Last but not least I never claimed non-Russian speakers in Ukraine are predestined to be NATO and zionist puppets. It's not my style of argumentation.
> 
> 
> 
> Why resort to rhetoric questions? You can read the papers instead, seeing how the answers you're looking for are contained therein.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, Ukrainians are fighting like supermen... we can see that from the staggering amount of videos which surfaced showing demoralized Ukrainian troops complaining about inadequate equipment and displaying obvious unwillingness to join the front.


Most thought this war would be done it 3 days. Now were 30.000 dead russians and counting. 


SalarHaqq said:


> Although I'll concede that this mostly applies to the regular Ukrainian military, neo-Nazis and other far right extremists mobilized within regiments of their own not conforming to this rule, high as they are on captagon and morphine, ideologically conditioned as they are to engage in completely futile, statically entrenched, irrational and nihilistic resistance, perfectly echoing the Wehrmacht's attempted defence of Berlin in 1945.
> 
> This of course does nothing other than to cause additional damage to Ukraine's civilian infrastructure - which in fact they don't really care about, considering that it's affecting Russian-speaking areas for now.


Sure. Nazis nazis everywhere. Lets flatten cities! 
Your just parroting russian propaganda. Extreme right is a small % of the many tens of thousands resisting russia right now.



SalarHaqq said:


> Except that the purpose of those "color revolutions" was to set the stage for wholesale destabilization of Russia down the road, utilizing the anti-Russian stooges brought to power by NATO throughout Moscow's vicinity. In that sense, Russian intervention was provoked by a concrete and palpable threat of existential nature, and Russian intervention effectively averted destruction of potentially much greater scale.


For sovereign ukraine to have ties to EU? Yeah catastrophy.


SalarHaqq said:


> Whereas recent military interventions and nefarious meddling by NATO (Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan etc) were not triggered by any realistic menace to the security and territorial integrity of member states. None of the nations attacked, invaded, plundered, balkanized by western regimes and their allies represented a real formidable threat to the USA, Canada, Europe, Australia or New Zealand.
> 
> The actual motivation behind these military adventures was to prolong the brutally enforced dominance of the empire. Key differences you opt to ignore.


So you are in favour of more Saddams? Assads? Gaddafis? 


SalarHaqq said:


> But no earthly power, no matter how mighty, is eternal. And clearly, the zio-American empire has entered its phase of decline, much to the relief of mankind.
> 
> 
> 
> Russia's political order isn't dictatorial, it's democratic - just not liberal democratic. In many ways their model of governance is superior to the western one, and rather than trying to disparage it through clichéd catch-phrases, western regimes would benefit from taking the Russian system as a source of inspiration.


Yeah the entire eastern block just looved their system…


SalarHaqq said:


> Such as?
> 
> 
> 
> This must be sort of an ironic remark. For last time I checked it was the US regime which, in breach of its promise to Gorbachev, kept expanding NATO across central and eastern Europe, with Russia essentially staying passive to these provocations. But that's over. NATO from now on will be reaping what it sowed.


Can you show me written promise? 
Unlike russias written promise after the nuke deal with ukraine. 

Russias colonial empire falling apart…what disaster…


SalarHaqq said:


> A ceasefire is seldom violated for the first time by two opposing sides at the very same moment. One party initiates it, and in the case at hand it was the Kiev regime.


Moving goalspost. Both parties have multiple breaches on their name. And most of the deaths are due to seperatists. 


SalarHaqq said:


> I wasn't aware that spying onto itself qualifies as destabilization. As for the alleged financing of political parties by Moscow, I addressed this contention in a previous reply: not only have EU regimes only themselves to blame if they aren't satisfied with their own national legislation in this area, but what is more, if these allegations are true then Moscow would only be paying back the EU regimes for their systematic interference in Russia's domestic affairs via support for Russian opposition figures and parties.


How much more of europe does russia have to occupy? Even at its height it was still meddling and destabilizing the few western european countries it did not control. 


SalarHaqq said:


> You may want to a have a closer look then.
> 
> 
> 
> If you truly believe Russia's conduct of military operations in Ukraine is heavy handed compared to standard NATO procedure, where everything is basically flattened and questions asked later, you'll be pretty disconnected from ground reality.


Yes. Mariopol is worse then fallujah. Likely more civilian deathstoo.
Compare afghanistan…


SalarHaqq said:


> I mention and describe the characteristics of US misconduct to highlight how far removed Russian policy is from that sort of misconduct, and how many decisive differences there are, setting apart the behaviour of these two governments on the international stage.


----------



## Apollon

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Western men should stay in the West where life is good. Don't go to Donbas. Don't live in poverty on the front. Don't get killed when caught. Stay in the West. Stay.



Wrong. If Putin is not stopped in Donbass he will attack more and more.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## MeFishToo

RescueRanger said:


> The DNR kangaroo court has sentenced the three captured members of Ukraine Foreign Legion to death.


To my knowlegde the british guys were serving with the ukrainian marines, and have been living in Ukraine for years. 
Its dangerous for russias own forces, if they keep up this masquerade of rightiousness. The ukrainians could choose to do the same. Eventually no prisoners will be taken.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> Wrong. If Putin is not stopped in Donbass he will attack more and more.



Putin protect Donbas children the same way America invaded Serbia to protect Kosovo children. Invasion is justified. Bullies will only stop if they are bunched in the teeth.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

ZeGerman said:


> Which catastrophes you want?
> Holodomor?
> Warsaw?
> Their abuse of the warsaw pact
> Afghanistan
> Chechnia (fsb staged attack)
> And now Ukraine. “Denazifying”
> 
> They also support extremist and nationalistic forces in our society. That their manipulations were less effective at times is not for not trying.
> 
> 
> there was evidence for poisoning.
> Kuzmin wanted their “own” bloodtest (with risk of manipulation).
> Not something to object and lose your job over.
> 
> 
> 
> I know, just adding “zionist puppet” like you do on opposing claims.
> 
> Most thought this war would be done it 3 days. Now were 30.000 dead russians and counting.
> 
> Sure. Nazis nazis everywhere. Lets flatten cities!
> Your just parroting russian propaganda. Extreme right is a small % of the many tens of thousands resisting russia right now.
> 
> 
> For sovereign ukraine to have ties to EU? Yeah catastrophy.
> 
> So you are in favour of more Saddams? Assads? Gaddafis?
> 
> Yeah the entire eastern block just looved their system…
> 
> Can you show me written promise?
> Unlike russias written promise after the nuke deal with ukraine.
> 
> Russias colonial empire falling apart…what disaster…
> 
> Moving goalspost. Both parties have multiple breaches on their name. And most of the deaths are due to seperatists.
> 
> How much more of europe does russia have to occupy? Even at its height it was still meddling and destabilizing the few western european countries it did not control.
> 
> Yes. Mariopol is worse then fallujah. Likely more civilian deathstoo.
> Compare afghanistan…



Why do you argue with him? Its senseless. Ignore them.


----------



## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Putin protect Donbas children the same way America invaded Serbia to protect Kosovo children. Invasion is justified. Bullies will only stop if they are bunched in the teeth.


Repeating a lie doesnt make it truth. Russia instigated and supported the unrest in eastern Ukraine. The whole world knows it.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Wrong. Donbas revolution = modern American revolution. Donbas don't belong in Ukraine just like America don't belong in Britain.


I couldnt care less. Russian propaganda is wasted on me.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> I couldnt care less. Russian propaganda is wasted on me.



Why don't you Danes send all your artillery to Donbas to get smashed?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534926034499428360

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534809283770064896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534910431021740032


----------



## Primus

RescueRanger said:


> Read this tweet it’s FUBAR:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534820098975977472


Torture....knock knock its the Hague

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534885358789435394

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534885207836348416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533377424641208320

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## RoadAmerica

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534804578394378240
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534797553983754241
> 
> 
> No pain. No gain. This makes Russia independent. Just like 1989 Western sanction made China's domestic defense industry independent.


You must know they won’t be independent especially industries that require high tech components like defense


----------



## zartosht

Boris Johnsons solution to people facing a cost of living crisis with inflation and soaring energy costs?

*" Just accept the paycut"*










Boris Johnson tells workers to accept pay cuts or UK faces 1970s–style ‘stagflation’


Prime minister blames Ukraine war for U-turn on promise to create a high-wage economy




www.independent.co.uk





These clowns have miscalculated big time. and the longer they wait to admit that defeat/humiliation. The harder the fall is going to be. 

I doubt the mrs lucky sperm club "queen" , her long parasitic line of family "royalty" , or boris johnson, or weapons companies CEOs etcc will be having to "accept paycuts"

Now everyone shut up, and and fap to NLAW's being delivered to ukraine!!1!!! glorious victory is right around the corner -Boris Johnson

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> You must know they won’t be independent especially industries that require high tech components like defense



China is fully independent when it comes to defense. The West imposed armed embargo on China in 1989 after Tian An Men massacre.


----------



## 925boy

MeFishToo said:


> Repeating a lie doesnt make it truth. Russia instigated and supported the unrest in eastern Ukraine. The whole world knows it.


well that's exactly why Russia is doing to Ukraine, what US did to mexico - fair!

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## jhungary

925boy said:


> well that's exactly why Russia is doing to Ukraine, what US did to mexico - fair!


The only different is, Mexico did attack US, well, the free state of Texas, Ukraine never attacked Russia


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> The only different is, Mexico did attack US, well, the free state of Texas, Ukraine never attacked Russia



Serbia never attacked the US and the US attacked Serbia. Britain never attacked France and France attacked Britain.

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## jhungary

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Serbia never attacked the US and the US attacked Serbia. Britain never attacked France and France attacked Britain.


Well, Vietnam never attack China, yet China attacked Vietnam.

Please stop quoting me again.

Reactions: Love Love:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534945004749217794

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531804351940874240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1528884067587895296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534945061410160641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534946080844042240


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

at Made in Europe


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534934996049338375

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534942988916473859

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wood

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/v8iaa8

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Havoc and Alligator artillery smashing helicopters providing close air support for rebel artillery.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534670971403128833


----------



## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Why don't you Danes send all your artillery to Donbas to get smashed?


The ukrainians are doing just fine. Like it or not, russian forces and material being decimated and its all over Russias favorite propaganda tool SoMe. Putin has lost all control of this situation, and practically went into hidding a long time ago. Only his muppets still fighting the twitter war.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534949143822708737


MeFishToo said:


> The ukrainians are doing just fine. Like it or not, russian forces and materiel being decimated and its all over Russias favorite propaganda tool SoMe. Putin has lost all control of this situation, and practically went into hidding a long time ago. Only his muppets still fighting the twitter war.



The war hasn't even properly started. Come back in 10 years and we'll see update on situation and how Ukrainians are doing.


----------



## MeFishToo

925boy said:


> well that's exactly why Russia is doing to Ukraine, what US did to mexico - fair!


How is that even related? 
But atleast you agree the russian narrative is is false.

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534949143822708737
> 
> 
> The war hasn't even properly started. Come back in 10 years and we'll see update on situation and how Ukrainians are doing.


I somehow doubt Putin is alive 10 years from now. Lets see how Russia evolves without this fascist personal cult of his.


----------



## Soldier35

In Donetsk, the Supreme Court sentenced foreign mercenaries to death. The British Aiden Aslin and Sean Pinner and the Moroccan Saadun Brahim, who participated in the hostilities in Ukraine, were sentenced to death by the court.






In Ukraine, the Ukrainian multiple launch rocket system "Bureviy" with a caliber of 220 mm was noticed. The Bureviy MLRS is a multiple launch rocket system on the chassis of the Czech TATRA T815-7T3RC1 with a wheel formula of 8×8. The MLRS is an upgraded version of the Soviet MLRS 9K57 "Hurricane", developed in the early seventies. During the development, Bureviy was supposed to receive a modern digital fire control system that simplifies the production of data for firing and new means of communication. According to the developers, the MLRS can work in a single reconnaissance and strike circuits of the tactical link and show high performance, whether it is implemented or not is unknown. The launcher and missiles are borrowed unchanged from the basic MLRS "Hurricane", depending on the type of missile, a firing range of 5 to 35 km is provided.






There was a video of the strikes of the Russian army, on the soldiers of the Ukrainian army using anti-tank systems. Judging by the footage, in this episode, the Ukrainian ATGM "Stugna" is mainly used by the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The events shown in the video took place in Mariupol, in addition, the video gives an answer why there is so much destruction as a result of hostilities. The Ukrainian army actively uses residential buildings to shelter its military personnel.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534942100957044740


MeFishToo said:


> I somehow doubt Putin is alive 10 years from now. Lets see how Russia evolves without this fascist personal cult of his.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534941218844594183
There will be more Russian president after Putin. Nationalism has taken hold in Russia. The next Russian president will be more nationalistic.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## MeFishToo

Soldier35 said:


> There was a video of the strikes of the Russian army, on the soldiers of the Ukrainian army using anti-tank systems. Judging by the footage, in this episode, the Ukrainian ATGM "Stugna" is mainly used by the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The events shown in the video took place in Mariupol, in addition, the video gives an answer why there is so much destruction as a result of hostilities. The Ukrainian army actively uses residential buildings to shelter its military personnel.


They are defending the city, yet they are to blame for the destruction.
I guess there is a thousend videos of russian armor and personel taking fire hidding in ukrainian residential areas and buildings, why not pointing fingers at Russia?


----------



## kingQamaR

RescueRanger said:


> The DNR kangaroo court has sentenced the three captured members of Ukraine Foreign Legion to death.



Prisoners of War so that is illegal?


----------



## Primus

Why tf are people putting watermarks over combat footage, this isnt a damn COD montage


----------



## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534804578394378240
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534797553983754241
> 
> 
> No pain. No gain. This makes Russia independent. Just like 1989 Western sanction made China's domestic defense industry independent.


This war is not cheap for Putin. He spends one billion dollar per day on the war. Or 30 billion dollars per month. That’s more than the revenues he earns by selling oil and gas. Ukraine about 10 billion dollars per month. Let’s see how he can keep Russia independent or becomes a chinese slave.

Communist China is more than happy to buy cheap. While they in public hug the war criminal Putin and dream of a New Democratic world order.


----------



## Nuclear Clown

Tai Hai Chen said:


> HIMARS is easy target for Ka-52M and Mi-28NM which can detect and track it with advanced AESA from dozens of miles away and smash it with long range anti tank missiles called Hermes.


$1 million, migration in the chosen western country and new identity if wanted for any Ka-52 or Mi-28N surrendered





The pilot of this one didn't earned $1 million:




Fox-2... Splash !!!




Mi-28 in Ukraine :




*Banned from exporting stolen Ukrainian washing machine...
Another one bites the dust : 



*
Ka-52, Mi-28N or Mi-24 are dead meat for predators like ManPADS and modern AA-guns. Orcs call Ka-52, Mi-28N or Mi-24 as "flying tanks" and as all Russian tanks, these do a long migration just to die in Ukraine as it sucks less than Russia's abysses rulled by Darth Putin... HiWestern MLRS may not need air defences: they also can launch AMRAAM as SAMs...

They can't even fit AESA on $75M Su-35 which gets clubbed like a baby seal by UkrAF Soviet-era MiG-29, likely upgraded with western combat systems




Su-34 ain't got AESA too...




And you say they have AESA on cheap Ka-52 or M-28N????
Then, there is AESA and aesa 
_*PLAAF Senior Pilot Reveals Poor Performance in Joint Exercise With RTAF*_

The Mistral ManPADS is not well known from the public, but... You really don't want to be in an Orcs' chopper when this baby is around : much better performances than Stinger, no known countermeasures...






Tai Hai Chen said:


> M270 can't even beat a bunch of rag tag Taliban let alone Russia


I think that US stayed twice as long as Russia in Afghanistan with barely the quarter of their losses, and they only came to bust Osama bin Laden...
If I remember well, USA demolished the Taliban regime in a very short time lapse, they could have stayed forever, and even annihilated the Taliban insurgency, but at which cost? They should have killed 2 millions Afghans while they just came for a single terrorist... The US military weren't defeated, it's the Afghan army that didn't fought at all when the Yanks pulled out!
Within 3 months in Ukraine, Russia has already lost twice as much personnel as in 10 years in Afghanistan, this implies about 100,000 casualties including 30-35k fatalities... Half of their their tanks have been blown, Russian air force and helicopters can"t operate, they were unable to achieve air superiority.
In fact, the 1991 NATO's 1st Gulf War deployment would give exactly the same beating to today's Russia it then gave to Saddam

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## A.P. Richelieu

Catalystic said:


> There are reports that Ukraine is demanding anti-ship missiles in order to export its wheat……so its blackmail…..
> 
> Wtf is going on?


There are plenty of anti-ship missiles shipped anyway…
Why demand something you are already getting?

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## A.P. Richelieu

kingQamaR said:


> Prisoners of War so that is illegal?


You are not allowed to mistreat Prisoners of War.
Torture is absolutely forbidden.

The Geneva Convention has some strict definitions on mercenaries (which has no rights to become POWs).
A key part is that the soldier must be motivated by money.
A foreign citizen that joins Ukraines army for ”the cause” is not a mercenary. Even if they join for ”the money”, the compensation must be significantly higher than that of an ordinary Ukrainan in a similar position.

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## Nuclear Clown

Tai Hai Chen said:


> at Made in Europe
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534934996049338375
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534942988916473859


Made in China : 
_PLAAF Senior Pilot Reveals __PLAAF __Poor Performance in Joint Exercise With RTAF's Gripen-C/D_​Note that J-11D and J-10C are equipped with the same AESA radar as the J-20, FC--31 as well as new JF-17 block.3... Gripen-C uses an upgrade to the 80's Super-Harrier's radar... RTAF also used outdated AIM-9L in WVR and AIM-120C, both are 30+ years old technology.
Swiss Air-Force 2008-2009 comparative evaluation... Note that Rafale was at F2 level : AESA, Meteor, 3rd gen stealth, etc etc came later





















Gripen-C is the cheapest and weakest jet fighter in the west, that's what you go for when you have no money and just need air-policing...
In actual NATO procedure, F-22 and Rafale F4 are the spearheads and take out the primary threats, Typhoon and F-35 follow and take out the secondary threats, everything else then comes for the quarry


----------



## 925boy

jhungary said:


> The only different is, Mexico did attack US, well, the free state of Texas, Ukraine never attacked Russia


thats besides the point - If US can go scot free as an obsessive imperialistic abuser, anyone else can do it too, including Russia. No double standards over here. cheers.

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## RoadAmerica

Tai Hai Chen said:


> China is fully independent when it comes to defense. The West imposed armed embargo on China in 1989 after Tian An Men massacre.


No it isn’t, they make sub par jet engines and we all know they aren’t on the same level when it comes to chips as Taiwan, nobody is. These are undisputed facts so if China isn’t Russia certainty isn’t

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534903758290829319

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534963248583192579

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534859261851107328


----------



## 925boy

MeFishToo said:


> How is that even related?


Dis you?






Your level of denial is insane, so i cant actually engage with u on the Ukraine war. cheers.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534908283047358464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534863177434943491

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534592308737413123


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534900301442035714

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534869494010728450


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534973017025040385

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534971789209653274

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534970354430529554

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534966095236452356

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534945860416679936

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534929930634645507

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534916912983031808


----------



## MeFishToo

925boy said:


> Dis you?
> View attachment 852740
> 
> 
> Your level of denial is insane, so i cant actually engage with u on the Ukraine war. cheers.


Engage? You basicly confirmed my point that Russia instigated and supported the unrest in eastern Ukraine. Thank you. Maybe Thai Hai Chen will listen to you..

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534903506636881920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534894053141237760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534916259145564162

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534893853785956352


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534886823419424770

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534887064696668160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534884052561448961

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534880403110125569

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534893853785956352


Helicopters firing rockets like that is kind of pointless. Theyre just making holes in the ground somewhere.
To me its a sign of desperation, doesnt matter if its a ukrainian or russian helicopter doing it.


----------



## ZeGerman

With all this constant military/nuclear threaths from russian side i wish they would just call their bluff. 


Turn up the military support full on.
Have polish/chech “volunteer” troops man west ukraine defenses while all those ukranian troops can push east. 
Heavily Arm and support belarussian/georgian/moldavian fronts. 

Or (like putin) wait for a opportune time. Get through the winter keeping “diplomatic” while filling gas supplies, then next spring do all the above and cutoff gas payments. 

They have a very hard time with ukraine…yet keep a big mouth about “humbling” nato.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531397723618000898

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531377263815667715


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534848166775992320

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534851555903647744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534850728526811136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534849683314573314


----------



## brehanlala

kingQamaR said:


> Prisoners of War so that is illegal?



Obviously it is. Read geneva convention.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534700769919877120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534848331452645379

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534685973090648068

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534942363755372544


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534939258854703105

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534938144793104384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534937533351591936Antimony Sb




For antimony-importing regions such as Europe and the U.S., antimony is considered to be a critical mineral for industrial manufacturing that is at risk of supply chain disruption. With global production coming mainly from China (74%), Tajikistan (8%), and Russia (4%), these sources are critical to supply.


*European Union*: Antimony is considered a critical raw material for defense, automotive, construction and textiles. The E.U. sources are 100% imported, coming mainly from Turkey (62%), Bolivia (20%) and Guatemala (7%).
*United Kingdom*: The British Geological Survey's 2015 risk list ranks antimony second highest (after rare earth elements) on the relative supply risk index.
*United States:* Antimony is a mineral commodity considered critical to the economic and national security. In 2021, no antimony was mined in the U.S.


----------



## nang2

brehanlala said:


> Obviously it is. Read geneva convention.


Let's call them "enemy combatants".


----------



## Nuclear Clown

Wood said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/v8iaa8


That is true denazificaton! 
Meet with Russia Wagner PMC (funded by the same *chief cook* as the Troll Factory, Prigozhin was linked to a company called Moskovsky Shkolnik (Moscow schoolboy) that had supplied poor quality food to Moscow schools which had caused a dysentery outbreak)

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534901482545356801

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534937189963993090

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534901103191633926

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534900948916912128


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535009974539149329

Ukrainians are also having success to the West of Izyum. Russians are stalled on this front and having to send reserves to cover their flank

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534901482545356801
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534937189963993090
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534901103191633926
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534900948916912128


Still pretending to have the almighty wisdom the russian population wants him to share with them. Why is it they have to portray him as such. They all know its forbidden to question him anyway.

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## Paul2

Raffie said:


> Two TOS-1A can get a Bonus : two for the price of one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bofors/Nexter Bonus - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We've managed to hit two moving targets at once at 50km+ when fired by the CAESAR.
> Nexter should consider loading 40 submunitions is an aerial bomb casing : seems that Raytheon is willing to stop producing the CBU-97/105 due to too much controversy... Any tactical aircraft can easily carry a dozen of such bombs and wipe out as much armoured battalions per flight... No need to use tactical nukes when you can demolish 400+ vehicles per flight...
> 
> Russia fails more miserably against Ukraine than it failed against the Talibans.
> IDK if M270 was used in Afgha : it's a battlefield weapon, it's not intended to deal with roaches
> In fact, it's Afghan army that failed, US one had no issues, moreover, it would had been very easy to get rid from Talibs, using the kind of controversial methods I like : just spray Cobalt 60 on their paths...
> Ukraine should have sprayed a 4km width buffer zone all along the Mordor and Isengard borders :
> I think they have plentiful of Cesium left from the Chernobyl disaster...
> View attachment 852752
> 
> ARS (accute radiation syndrome) is very efficient on Orcs. If I remember well, if cesium is used, survivors get bone marrow cancer. If Cobalt 60 is used, it's unlikely any gets out from the contaminated zone alive... Effect of being close from a industrial gammagraphy Co 60 source (2x3mm) for... Not very long... The burns started to appear 3 days later. The legs were soon gone then the guy...
> View attachment 852756



Yes, completely forgot, BONUSes would be invaluable for Ukraine for CB.

BONUS is way more valuable as a counterbattery weapon than antiarmour

News for today. Russians pulled back troops from Severo, and are resuming shelling again.

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## MeFishToo

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535009974539149329
> 
> Ukrainians are also having success to the West of Izyum. Russians are stalled on this front and having to send reserves to cover their flank


Check the pro russian twitter posts. Its the same arrows on the same maps claiming the same victories every single day. If a russian soldier is taking a picture of a town through a telescope, some twitter account claim victory and 500 nationalist destroyed.

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535009974539149329
> 
> Ukrainians are also having success to the West of Izyum. Russians are stalled on this front and having to send reserves to cover their flank



On other hand, Russians been R&Ring East of Izyum for weeks, and have a moderately cohesive force there again.

Reactions: Sad Sad:
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----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534954619394215942

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534809126815031296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534901357588750339


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534900251353657344

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534898018306211844

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534896582121889794


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534853457525473281

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534853463036805121

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534851281604468736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534853309525278722


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534974694293749766

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535010585968009245

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534814891676209152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534814762906931200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534811128093675522

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534809831282036738

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534814353949609984


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534809283770064896


----------



## jhungary

925boy said:


> thats *besides the point* - If US can go scot free as an obsessive imperialistic abuser, anyone else can do it too, including Russia. No double standards over here. cheers.


well, that's *THE ENTIRE POINT* actually. One is unprovoked attack, the other is a defensive action.

US attack Mexico because of a defence treaty with Texas, and because it was attacked by Mexico.

Also notice that US is NOT at all a superpower back in 1840 and Mexico are by all account stronger than the US.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535017098765914129

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> Prisoners of War so that is illegal?


Putting POW on a trial is illegal let alone sentence them to death, you can only tried anyone if there are explicit evidence that that person committed war crime. Otherwise law of war does not allow people to be prosecuted simply because they were fighting on the other side. Fighting for its country is not a crime according to Law of War. Killing civilian intentionally, making unnecessary destruction is considered crime against humanity, otherwise known as war crime.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535000364830842883

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## jhungary

Jesus, people need to know what happened in Sieverodonetsk before making comment.

Russia is doing its Russian thing, put Infantry in, if it meet resistance, pull out, then send in the artillery, and then move back in after artillery, if there are still resistance, then rinse and repeat.

What Ukraine is doing at the moment is called "Dynamic Defence" when Russia attack, put up a fight, then when the Russia pull back, Ukrainian themselves pull back to some place else and let the Russia Bomb the area, and either choose to defend another sector or continue to defend that area.

This is the same tactics the Vietcong fought us in Vietnam war, when US attack enmasse, they put up a fight, then US call in artillery and air strike, the smooch on and defend somewhere. This tactics is aimed to taken as many attacker life while preserving theirs. 

It's not "Russian made massive gain" when they reincur in the city, or "Ukrainian beat a hasty retreat" when they relocate.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534999264643887104

Reactions: Like Like:
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## _Nabil_

SalarHaqq said:


> No. Viktor Yanukovych did obtain a majority of votes at Ukraine's 2010 runoff presidential election indeed.
> 
> The two candidates' scores amounted to:
> 
> * Viktor Yanukovych : 48,95%
> * Yulia Timoshenko : 45,47%
> 
> 
> 
> Because those 48,95% (not 48,6%) relate to overall expressed votes, that is including invalid and blank ballots as well as votes for a special third option offered by the Ukrainian electoral system, termed "Against all" (i.e. an expression of opposition to both candidates).
> 
> Indeed, here's what the latter two voting choices garnered:
> 
> * Against all : 4,36%
> * Invalid (and blank) : 1,19%
> 
> Unlike the US system for instance, where ballots do not include an "Against all" option, and where the announced final result does not account for invalid and blank votes, in Ukraine it does.
> 
> Elsewhere the percentage of _valid_ votes obtained by each candidate is considered, in Ukraine however they go with the percentage of _expressed_ votes, and moreover the Ukrainian election features that extra voting option ("Against all") absent from equivalent elections in other countries.
> 
> If we leave out "Against all" votes and invalid / blank ones, in other terms if we only count votes given to either Yanukovych or Timoshenko, Yanukovych won the election with an absolute majority of over 51,84% (48,95 x 100 / (48,95+45,47)).
> 
> 
> 
> That's correct.
> 
> And guess who is agreeing with me on the democratically elected part? None other than international observers dispatched by the OSCE (Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe) as well as the PACE (Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe) to monitor the election.
> 
> The OSCE said there were no indications of serious fraud and described the vote as an "impressive display" of democracy. Source:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yanukovych set to become president as observers say Ukraine election was fair
> 
> 
> • Yulia Tymoshenko under pressure to concede defeat• Monitors praise 'impressive display' of democracy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link to the PACE statement: https://pace.coe.int/en/news/2753


Easy on the man, he's American after all, probably never heard of blank votes 





__





Vote blanc : est-il comptabilisé aux législatives ? Comment voter blanc ?






www.linternaute.com


----------



## jhungary

_Nabil_ said:


> Easy on the man, he's American after all, probably never heard of blank votes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vote blanc : est-il comptabilisé aux législatives ? Comment voter blanc ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.linternaute.com


I have, in fact, that's how my wife vote on the last Australian election back in May 21 last month. Me, I just wrote 1 to 10 randomly, and no, I am not just an American, I lived most of 2000s and early 2010s in Europe (UK, Sweden and Ukraine) and are citizen for two of those countries.

And as I said, his post is faulty, first he said the invalid and non-preferred counted in Ukrainian election, which is correct.



> Unlike the US system for instance, where ballots do not include an "Against all" option, and where the announced final result does not account for invalid and blank votes, in Ukraine it does.



and then come around and say if those were not counted toward total tally, then Yanukovych would have 51.84% vote



> If we leave out "Against all" votes and invalid / blank ones, in other terms if we only count votes given to either Yanukovych or Timoshenko, Yanukovych won the election with an absolute majority of over 51,84% (48,95 x 100 / (48,95+45,47)).



Sure, if we do not count the preference option and just the two party result on the last Australian Federal Election (The 1 -10 I said before), ScoMo would still be in power. But that's not how the election work, those vote are counted toward the total Tally but not toward either candidate, so no, Yanukovych did not have 51.84% of vote. And by Ukrainian Constitution, either candidate have to have over half (ie over 50%) of the vote to be elected President, so Yanukovych is not elected.

And that you don't even need to know how Ukrainian election work to know.


----------



## Vergennes

More Russians coming back home in trashbags


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535008481266520064

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## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> More Russians coming back home in trashbags
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535008481266520064


Awfully young (36) for a LTC. 

In the US, that's probably a Major rank (7-11 years TIG as a captain) You would have be late 30 and early 40 to be a LTC, and I don't think I have met any LTC that's still 30 something years old.

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## _Nabil_

jhungary said:


> I have, in fact, that's how my wife vote on the last Australian election back in May 21 last month. Me, I just wrote 1 to 10 randomly, and no, I am not just an American, I lived most of 2000s and early 2010s in Europe (UK, Sweden and Ukraine) and are citizen for two of those countries.
> 
> And as I said, his post is faulty, first he said the invalid and non-preferred counted in Ukrainian election, which is correct.
> 
> 
> 
> and then come around and say if those were not counted toward total tally, then Yanukovych would have 51.84% vote
> 
> 
> 
> *That's not how the election work, those vote are counted toward the total Tally but not toward either candidate, *so no, Yanukovych did not have 51.84% of vote. And by Ukrainian Constitution, either candidate have to have over half (ie over 50%) of the vote to be elected President, so Yanukovych is not elected.


You got it right then you got it wrong in the end, 

Blank votes are counted for their political weight (were considered invalid votes before) to give the people that have been physically present in elections but are against both candidates a voice.

Their total tally isn't considered in determining the winner of elections, just like the people that registered to elections but didn't voted or the invalid votes.

If you understand the French this article explain it much better than I did



https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ouest-france.fr/elections/presidentielle/presidentielle-pourquoi-le-vote-blanc-n-est-il-pas-reconnu-en-france-on-vous-repond-a5e7e9fe-b973-11ec-857e-054a15b86122





jhungary said:


> Putting POW on a trial is illegal let alone sentence them to death, you can only tried anyone if there are explicit evidence that that person committed war crime. Otherwise law of war does not allow people to be prosecuted simply because they were fighting on the other side. Fighting for its country is not a crime according to Law of War. Killing civilian intentionally, making unnecessary destruction is considered crime against humanity, otherwise known as war crime.


Isn't forbidden for people to fight for another country, entity,...? 

Isn't considered terrorism?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535060772258099200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535060775148015616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535060777761394688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535060780433158144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535060781812879361

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535060791610712078

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535060793628442624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535060796023009280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535060797508157441

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## jhungary

_Nabil_ said:


> You got it right then you got it wrong in the end,
> 
> Blank votes are counted for their political weight (were considered invalid votes before) to give the people that have been physically present in elections but are against both candidates a voice.
> 
> Their total tally isn't considered in determining the winner of elections, just like the people that registered to elections but didn't voted or the invalid votes.
> 
> If you understand the French this article explain it much better than I did
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ouest-france.fr/elections/presidentielle/presidentielle-pourquoi-le-vote-blanc-n-est-il-pas-reconnu-en-france-on-vous-repond-a5e7e9fe-b973-11ec-857e-054a15b86122



Go back to the TASS article I quote on reply to his post.

Blank vote counted toward the total tally as it stated the applicant have to obtain half of "Total Number of votes", that mean all the vote including the vote for the 2 candidate, the blank vote and invalid vote."

It may be how "French" work on their election, this is not how it work on Ukraine....

Also, if I was correct at the beginning, then I have to be correct in the end, because if I am not, that mean the definition of "Blank and Invalid" vote changes as the first part is "Blank and Invalid" vote counted in Ukrainian Election.



_Nabil_ said:


> Isn't forbidden for people to fight for another country, entity,...?
> 
> Isn't considered terrorism?


Show me where in International Law said that you cannot become a foreign citizen and join a foreign army.

International Law only forbade "Non-State" actor to participate in warfare, and that's only applies to "Personal Gain" otherwise all NGO (Red Cross, MSF and so on) working in a warzone is not protected. A person move to another country and join the military in that country is allowed. And once he signed up for the national service, you are then a party of a state. This applies to

US (Where you can join US Military with a green card without Citizenship and get Citizenship upon deployment, also selective service, the US Draft, which include non-Citizens)
UK (Where commonwealth citizen can join the British Military and gain Citizenship)
French (Foreign Legion, duh)
Israel (It does not matter if you are a foreign citizen, you need to serve Israeli Defence Force)
Australia (Australia allow Permanent Resident to join the Military and grant citizenship upon 140 days of service)
And almost all European Country and South American country.

Those people does not qualify as Non-State Actor and they are not doing it for personal gain. They wear uniform identify themselves as a party of state, they were acting on behalf of a State, and they are engaging in combat duty that State are currently engaging to, and more importantly, both the British (Not sure about the Moroccan) are Ukrainian Citizens.

Tell me where this broke the law of war regarding enemy combatant??

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 9​Jun 9, 2022 - Press ISW


Download the PDF

*Karolina Hird, Kateryna Stepanenko, and Mason Clark
June 9, 6:45 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Russian forces are continuing to deploy outdated military equipment to Ukraine to replace losses. *The Ukrainian Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported on June 9 that Russian forces are mining Kherson Oblast with mines from the 1950s to defend against recent Ukrainian counterattacks in northwestern Kherson Oblast.[1] The GUR stated that Russian forces moved these mines from Russia’s Rostov Oblast to the Kherson area despite the fact the mines were meant to be destroyed. The GUR claimed that some of the mines detonated during the transportation processes and killed Russian sappers from the 49th Combined Arms Army. The GUR’s report is consistent with previous statements that Russian forces are moving old and obsolete equipment to Ukraine to make up for equipment losses, including deploying T-62 tanks to the Melitopol area and pulling MLRS and 152mm howitzers from storage in Irkutsk, Siberia.[2]
*Russian military command continues to face pervasive issues with force generation. *The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported that Russian officials in Luhansk Oblast have had to reduce their mobilization efforts due to widespread protests against aggressive mobilization efforts that have taken a toll on the labor market in Luhansk.[3] Attacks on Russian military recruitment offices are additionally continuing.[4] An unidentified assailant threw a Molotov cocktail at the military commissariat in Vladivostok, which is the eighteenth such reported attack on Russian territory since the beginning of the war. As Russian officials escalate mobilization efforts over the background of continued losses in Ukraine, they will continue to run the risk of instigating public dissent and pushback against such recruitment practices.
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian officials are increasingly taking over governmental positions in occupied Ukrainian territory, advancing the Kremlin's likely efforts to annex occupied areas of Ukraine into Russia as an okrug (federal district).*
*Russian forces continued to fight for the Azot industrial zone in Severodonetsk under the cover of heavy artillery fire.*
*Russian forces made marginal gains north of Slovyansk but are likely to face difficulties assaulting the city itself because of the tactical challenges posed by crossing the Siverskyi Donets River.*
*Russian forces made incremental advances to the east of Bakhmut and will continue efforts to cut Ukrainian lines of communication to the northeast of Bakhmut.*
*Russian forces are likely engaged in limited fighting along occupied frontiers in northern Kharkiv Oblast.*
*Russian forces continue to focus on strengthening defensive lines along the Southern Axis and are intensifying ground attacks in northeastern Zaporizhia Oblast with the support of troop and equipment rotations.*

*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued to attack Ukrainian positions in Severodonetsk under the cover of heavy artillery fire on June 9. Ukrainian and Russian sources confirmed that Russian forces control all residential sectors of the city and that fighting is ongoing for the Azot industrial zone, where Ukrainian forces are embedded.[5] Russian forces continued unsuccessful efforts to take control of Toshkivka to drive north toward Lysychansk and avoid crossing the Siverskyi Donets River from within Severodonetsk.[6] Russian forces conducted heavy air and artillery strikes in and around Severodonetsk to support ground operations in the city.[7]

Russian forces continued efforts to advance on Slovyansk from the southeast of Izyum and made marginal territorial gains north of Slovyansk on June 9.[8] Russian forces are likely seeking to leverage their control of the area around Sviatohirsk to move southwards toward Slovyansk, but are unlikely to have seized the settlement as of June 9 due to Ukrainian resistance in the area and Russian milblogger Swodki claimed that Russian forces captured Pryshyb and Tetyanivka (both about 20 km north of Slovyansk) on June 9, though ISW cannot confirm this claim.[9] Russian efforts to move toward Slovyansk are likely hindered by the Siverskyi Donets River, which they will have to successfully cross to the north (around Sviatohirsk-Tetyanivka) and east of Slovyansk (around Raihorodok) in order to push toward the city.[10]
Russian forces continued ground, air, and artillery attacks east of Bakhmut and made incremental gains on June 9. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian troops had partial success in Komyshuvakha (northeast of Bakhmut) and Roty (southeast of Bakhmut).[11] Russian forces additionally continued unsuccessful attacks on Nahirne and Mykolaivka.[12]

*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces continued to defend their occupied frontiers and fire on Ukrainian positions in northern Kharkiv Oblast on June 9.[13] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are focusing on engineering, fortification, and mining to strengthen their defensive lines north of Kharkiv City.[14] Russian Telegram channels additionally claimed that Russian troops re-took control of Ternova and Varvarivka, both settlements northeast of Kharkiv City near the international border.[15] While ISW cannot independently confirm the status of Ternova or Varvarivka, these claims indicate that Russian forces are still engaged in fighting along the frontline in northern Kharkiv Oblast.[16] Certain Russian sources indicated that Ukrainian forces may be conducting limited counterattacks in this area, which is consistent with Russian reports of continued positional battles in this area.[17]

*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces focused on strengthening their defensive lines and firing on Ukrainian positions along the Southern Axis on June 9.[18] Deputy Chief of the Main Operations Department of the Ukrainian General Staff Oleksiy Gromov stated that Russian forces are conducting a positional defense in Zaporizhia and Mykolaiv Oblasts (using fortifications and attempting to hold all of their captured terrain).[19] Head of the Zaporizhia Regional State Administration Oleksandr Starukh reported that Russian forces in Zaporizhia have received 80 new tanks over the last month and that Rosgvardia units rotated out of the area and were replaced with forces from the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR).[20] Russian troop rotations are likely meant to support operations in northeastern Zaporizhia Oblast along the Orikhiv-Huliapole line, where Russian troops have been conducting ground attacks and escalating hostilities to push toward the Zaporizhia-Donetsk Oblast borders.[21]

*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian authorities are escalating efforts to consolidate governmental control of the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DNR and LNR) and other occupied Ukrainian territories. Independent Russian news source _Meduza _cited unnamed Kremlin officials and claimed that the Kremlin hopes to unite the DNR, LNR, and occupied Kherson and Zaporizhia into a singular Russian okrug (federal district).[22] _Meduza_’s statement is consistent with reports that an increasing number of former Russian officials are ascending into senior positions within the governments of the DNR and LNR, including a former governor of Russia’s Kurgan Oblast taking on the role of first deputy chairman of the LNR and a former Russian transportation official ascending to the role of deputy prime minister of the DNR.[23] New Prime Minister of the DNR Vitaly Khotsenko, who was appointed to the position on June 8, announced that his government will synchronize DNR legislation with Russian legislation and Head of the DNR Denis Pushilin announced the DNR has partnered financially with Russia's state-owned Promsvyazbank.[24] Russian authorities likely established a civil-military administration in occupied parts of Kharkiv Oblast, which is analogous to the current Russian-backed military administrations in Zaporizhia and Kherson Oblasts.[25] Such efforts to consolidate governmental control of occupied areas through the direct installation of Russian leadership is a major indicator that the Kremlin is attempting to unify efforts to annex occupied regions directly into the Russian Federation.

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## _Nabil_

jhungary said:


> Go back to the TASS article I quote on reply to his post.
> 
> Blank vote counted toward the total tally as it stated the applicant have to obtain half of "Total Number of votes", that mean all the vote including the vote for the 2 candidate, the blank vote and invalid vote."
> 
> It may be how "French" work on their election, this is not how it work on Ukraine....
> 
> Also, if I was correct at the beginning, then I have to be correct in the end, because if I am not, that mean the definition of "Blank and Invalid" vote changes as the first part is "Blank and Invalid" vote counted in Ukrainian Election.



X : total voters 1000
Y : Blank votes : 40
Z : Invalid votes : 10
V : Valid votes : X-Y-Z = 950

A : votes for Mr Y : 490
B : votes for Mr W: 460

% Y : A/V = 490/950= 51,58%
% W : B/V = 460/950 = 48.42%


Dunno how Ukrainian counting system can differ from the above.



jhungary said:


> Show me where in International Law said that you cannot become a foreign citizen and join a foreign army.
> 
> International Law only forbade "Non-State" actor to participate in warfare, and that's only applies to "Personal Gain" otherwise all NGO (Red Cross, MSF and so on) working in a warzone is not protected. A person move to another country and join the military in that country is allowed. And once he signed up for the national service, you are then a party of a state. This applies to
> 
> US (Where you can join US Military with a green card without Citizenship and get Citizenship upon deployment, also selective service, the US Draft, which include non-Citizens)
> UK (Where commonwealth citizen can join the British Military and gain Citizenship)
> French (Foreign Legion, duh)
> Israel (It does not matter if you are a foreign citizen, you need to serve Israeli Defence Force)
> Australia (Australia allow Permanent Resident to join the Military and grant citizenship upon 140 days of service)
> And almost all European Country and South American country.
> 
> Those people does not qualify as Non-State Actor and they are not doing it for personal gain. They wear uniform identify themselves as a party of state, they were acting on behalf of a State, and they are engaging in combat duty that State are currently engaging to, and more importantly, both the British (Not sure about the Moroccan) are Ukrainian Citizens.
> 
> Tell me where this broke the law of war regarding enemy combatant??


Here in Tunisia, if you fight in any external war, you are considered a terrorist and terrorist laws are applicable. Seems logical to me.....

But if the English pow are Ukrainians citizens, should be treated like any other Ukrainian pow.

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## kingQamaR

Russian oil exports were last week 10% down, but their revenues, due to price increases, were actually up 50% (source: International Energy Agency). The Russian oil firm Lukoil suggested that export be reduced 30% to maximise profit and save on production and transport costs. Now, the eu has said it will eventually stop buying oil from Russia, which will again increase the price. Even selling at a 20% discountprofit will be maintained. Sanctions are hurting everyone, and the longer they're applied for, the worse it will be, globally

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## jhungary

_Nabil_ said:


> X : total voters 1000
> Y : Blank votes : 40
> Z : Invalid votes : 10
> V : Valid votes : X-Y-Z = 950
> 
> A : votes for Mr Y : 490
> B : votes for Mr W: 460
> 
> % Y : A/V = 490/950= 51,58%
> % W : B/V = 460/950 = 48.42%
> 
> 
> Dunno how Ukrainian counting system can differ from the above.


As I said, and as the TASS (TASS is russian by the way) and as the other guy said, Invalid Vote and Blank vote are counted in Ukraine, what that mean by count is it was counted toward the grand tally, but it did not goes to either of the candidate. 

Which mean if 20 vote out of 1000 are blank and invalid, and one candidate get 495 vote, and the other have 485, that mean none of them have gone over 50%, as it should be, as just because I don't like either candidate that does not mean my vote does not count, and putting it in advantage of one over the other using my preference is not going according to my original will to vote, which my intention is to have it go to nobody. 





_Nabil_ said:


> Here in Tunisia, if you fight in any external war, you are considered a terrorist and terrorist laws are applicable. Seems logical to me.....
> 
> But if the English pow are Ukrainians citizens, should be treated like any other Ukrainian pow.


What you are talking about is more akin to Treason. It too happened in the US, US Law explicitly stated that no US citizens shall engage in warfare that the United States were not engage in. If US is not at war with Russia, then any US citizen that went to war with Russia is breaking that law. 

However, that did not account for dual citizens, because if I am a Ukrainian-American, it would be my duty to defend Ukraine now that Ukraine are at war with Russia, that mean it would be okay for me to join the Ukrainian Force and fight the Russian, that did not break both US Federal Law and International Law.


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## S10

About 100 to 200 Ukrainian KIA per day. The general ratio is about 5 wounded to every killed, so they're suffering anywhere from 500 to 1000 casualties per day. Russians might be doing slightly better thanks to firepower advantage, but I don't imagine casualties are light on their side in recent weeks as well.








Ukrainian casualties: Kyiv losing up to 200 troops a day - Zelensky aide


Mykhaylo Podolyak told the BBC that Ukraine needs more weapons to match Russia's firepower.



www.bbc.com

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## kingQamaR

Not only do mercenaries not fall under the Geneva Convention, neither do soldiers not in uniform


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535071534154280960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535077265926930433


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## kingQamaR

S10 said:


> About 100 to 200 Ukrainian KIA per day. The general ratio is about 5 wounded to every killed, so they're suffering anywhere from 500 to 1000 casualties per day. Russians might be doing slightly better thanks to firepower advantage, but I don't imagine casualties are light on their side in recent weeks as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian casualties: Kyiv losing up to 200 troops a day - Zelensky aide
> 
> 
> Mykhaylo Podolyak told the BBC that Ukraine needs more weapons to match Russia's firepower.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com



Exactly so. The Ukranian casualties, IN TRUTH, must be immense. Many times what they admit. Between soldiers and civilians. Two thirds of war casualties happen in artillery bombardment and the Russians have been pounding the country for weeks

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535087233409196040

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## _Nabil_

jhungary said:


> As I said, and as the TASS (TASS is russian by the way) and as the other guy said, *Invalid Vote and Blank vote are counted* in Ukraine, what that mean by count is it was counted toward the grand tally, but it did not goes to either of the candidate.



Of course they are counted and of course they don't go to any candidate 



jhungary said:


> Which mean if 20 vote out of 1000 are blank and invalid, and one candidate get 495 vote, and the other have 485, that mean none of them have gone over 50%, as it should be, as just because I don't like either candidate that does not mean my vote does not count,


Yes your votes don't count because your candidate didn't reached the secondary tour.



jhungary said:


> and putting it in advantage of one over the other using my preference is not going according to my original will to vote, which my intention is to have it go to nobody.



They go to nobody, they are deducted from the Total Votes for both candidates, division is done on V : valide votes not X : total votes

Following your logic : 

If blank votes are 6% of all votes, candidate Y should have 6%+1 more votes than candidate W to win and have a valide election, that's illogical




jhungary said:


> What you are talking about is more akin to Treason. It too happened in the US, US Law explicitly stated that no US citizens shall engage in warfare that the United States were not engage in. If US is not at war with Russia, then any US citizen that went to war with Russia is breaking that law.
> 
> However, that did not account for dual citizens, because if I am a Ukrainian-American, it would be my duty to defend Ukraine now that Ukraine are at war with Russia, that mean it would be okay for me to join the Ukrainian Force and fight the Russian, that did not break both US Federal Law and International Law.


Dual citizens are fine of course to fight for "*one"* of their citizenship.

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## K_Bin_W

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535077265926930433


That's thermobaric, best defence is to stay out of range

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

S10 said:


> About 100 to 200 Ukrainian KIA per day. The general ratio is about 5 wounded to every killed, so they're suffering anywhere from 500 to 1000 casualties per day. Russians might be doing slightly better thanks to firepower advantage, but I don't imagine casualties are light on their side in recent weeks as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian casualties: Kyiv losing up to 200 troops a day - Zelensky aide
> 
> 
> Mykhaylo Podolyak told the BBC that Ukraine needs more weapons to match Russia's firepower.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com



Loads of Ukrainians fleeing Ukraine, dying of disease due to poor healthcare because of war, dying of hunger because of loss of agricultural land in the southeast. Probably millions of Ukrainians be gone from Ukraine before the end of the year. Sad end to the country.

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## PakFactor

kingQamaR said:


> Not only do mercenaries not fall under the Geneva Convention, neither do soldiers not in uniform



Never mind those guys are Ukrainian citizens. Anyways still execute them.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535083657551036431

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535092432571965440

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## sammuel

100 years after World War 1 , we see countries pounding each other with huge cannons for months , like a bunch of Neanderthals.

This is how much humanity has developed. We may have internet and iPhones , but this has not eliminated bloody wars. Even worse , with all this technology , now it is out there for all to see.

as for the reason for this war :

People seems to have all sort of complicated explanations for that. As if dictators deciding to invade and annex a neighbouring country , is something new in history.

From Alexander of Macedon to Napoleon Bonaparte . Dictators like to invade other countries ,and care little of the suffering they cause.

I am talking about Mr white judo pants , Mr long table , Putin.

Who instead of helping the world , by battling the hard issues the world is facing like Viruses , food shortage , climate change , thought it wise to drag the world into a new , long forgotten , 1950s , arm race.

Instead of allocating all our resources to solve the challenges we all face.

~


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## kingQamaR

PakFactor said:


> Never mind those guys are Ukrainian citizens. Anyways still execute them.



Bozo will end up getting them an extra 10 years like he did Nazanin lol

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## kingQamaR

K_Bin_W said:


> That's thermobaric, best defence is to stay out of range



Well you got the fire itself. It will burn anything it touches. Then you got the concussive force which is lethal even farther than the fire. Then you got the fact that it sucks all the O2 out of the air so even if you are in a vehicle or bunker that kept you from being burnt or blown up you die of asphyxiation. As for how much damage it depends on the target and the size of the weapon. As usual


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## northeast

sammuel said:


> 100 years after World War 1 , we see countries pounding each other with huge cannons for months , like a bunch of Neanderthals.
> 
> This is how much humanity has developed. We may have internet and iPhones , but this has not eliminated bloody wars. Even worse , with all this technology , now it is out there for all to see.
> 
> as for the reason for this war :
> 
> People seems to have all sort of complicated explanations for that. As if dictators deciding to invade and annex a neighbouring country , is something new in history.
> 
> From Alexander of Macedon to Napoleon Bonaparte . Dictators like to invade other countries ,and care little of the suffering they cause.
> 
> I am talking about Mr white judo pants , Mr long table , Putin.
> 
> Who instead of helping the world , by battling the hard issues the world is facing like Viruses , food shortage , climate change , thought it wise to drag the world into a new , long forgotten , 1950s , arm race.
> 
> Instead of allocating all our resources to solve the challenges we all face.
> 
> ~


Said by a person from a country which founded by invasion and apartheid, very persuative.

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## DF41

northeast said:


> Said by a person from a country which founded by invasion and apartheid, very persuative.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531826011419340800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532365873851564032

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## A.P. Richelieu

_Nabil_ said:


> Here in Tunisia, if you fight in any external war, you are considered a terrorist and terrorist laws are applicable. Seems logical to me.....
> 
> But if the English pow are Ukrainians citizens, should be treated like any other Ukrainian pow.


A country can make a law for its own citizens, but it cannot make a law for the other side in a war.
To be a mercenary, you have to be a foreigner *and* motivated by money *and* earn more than an ordinary soldier.



northeast said:


> Said by a person from a country which founded by invasion and apartheid, very persuative.


China was formed by wars. I am pretty sure that involved invasion after invasion.
Israel was founded by a declaration of independence.


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## northeast

A.P. Richelieu said:


> A country can make a law for its own citizens, but it cannot make a law for the other side in a war.
> To be a mercenary, you have to be a foreigner *and* motivated by money *and* earn more than an ordinary soldier.
> 
> 
> China was formed by wars. I am pretty sure that involved invasion after invasion.
> Israel was founded by a declaration of independence.


Looks like you support invasion and colonialism if it suit your interest,fine.

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## jhungary

_Nabil_ said:


> They go to nobody, they are *deducted from the Total Votes for both candidates*, division is done on V : valide votes not X : total votes
> 
> Following your logic :
> 
> If blank votes are 6% of all votes, candidate Y should have 6%+1 more votes than candidate W to win and have a valide election, that's illogical


I will beg to differ on the high lighted portion

In fact, I would argue why would you deduct from the total vote if that is a legitimate option. for you to not vote for Candidate A or B. If they were to be taken out, then why bother with giving them the 3rd option to begin with? You would just be giving them the choice to vote on either A or B or don't vote at all. 

On the other hand, I can see why you can think blank vote or faulty vote should not be count, while I am not any expert on election issue, but I can see the losing candidate to challenge the result in court if not all the ballot counts. That's very prone to election fraud.


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## kingQamaR

A.P. Richelieu said:


> A country can make a law for its own citizens, but it cannot make a law for the other side in a war.
> To be a mercenary, you have to be a foreigner *and* motivated by money *and* earn more than an ordinary soldier.
> 
> 
> China was formed by wars. I am pretty sure that involved invasion after invasion.
> Israel was founded by a declaration of independence.



Both are married to Ukrainians and shld have defacto citizenship in their new country, so not mercenaries


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## PakFactor

kingQamaR said:


> Bozo will end up getting them an extra 10 years like he did Nazanin lol



Lol. I agree with that.


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## Brainsucker

K_Bin_W said:


> That's thermobaric, best defence is to stay out of range


This bomb is so frightening. I'm sure that Ukraine's casualty must be more than they can counted for. How many death on their side until today? 100 thousand, 1 millions?



kingQamaR said:


> Both are married to Ukrainians and shld have defacto citizenship in their new country, so not mercenaries


No, they can become an Ukrainian if they have Ukrainian's citizenship. If you said that people who marry a local can automatically become a citizen, then people like SerpentZA and Laowai has become a PRC citizen right now.


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## Viet

Brainsucker said:


> This bomb is so frightening. I'm sure that Ukraine's casualty must be more than they can counted for. How many death on their side until today? 100 thousand, 1 millions?
> 
> 
> No, they can become an Ukrainian if they have Ukrainian's citizenship. If you said that people who marry a local can automatically become a citizen, then people like SerpentZA and Laowai has become a PRC citizen right now.


No not so much. Ukraine has about 700,000 men in the army after general mobilization. Russia much less because Putin has yet to do the same. call general mobilization.

Let’s do the math.

Zelinskki says Ukraine army loss is about 100 men per day. Putin suffers similar casualty rate. Considering that’s not a full scale war yet that may come next in few months, then casual rate is very low.

In comparison, in the war against Germany, USSR casualties ran about 6,000 men per day. France, UK loss was several thousands per day luckily less against Germany in WW1, 2.

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## jhungary

Brainsucker said:


> This bomb is so frightening. I'm sure that Ukraine's casualty must be more than they can counted for. How many death on their side until today? 100 thousand, 1 millions?



You can estimate it by the account of how many billing were fill, how many equipment lost and so on. Conservative estimate by multiple open source put Ukrainian war dead around 25000. Which coincide with the loss figure per day the Ukrainian publishes (around 150-200 a day, this being a 104 day war)

Similar Russian death toll were judged by the equipment loss.



Brainsucker said:


> No, they can become an Ukrainian if they have Ukrainian's citizenship. If you said that people who marry a local can automatically become a citizen, then people like SerpentZA and Laowai has become a PRC citizen right now.



Different country have different citizenship rule, it's different between Ukrainian and China.

Also, you can be a foreigner to fight for another country, Geneva Accord only dictated the term "non-state actor". Which mean as long as the host country is sponsoring you, you are a state actor. That's why you don't need Citizenship to join many Military in the world.

Say you hold Australian Permanent Residence and not Citizenship, you can apply for any roles within Australian Defence Force without proper clearance. (So usually low lying job) This is a false narrative that foreigner fighting for a foreign government itself is automatically a mercenary

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## kingQamaR

I don't believe a word of what either the Ukrainians or Russians tell us. Believe nothing, question everything, assume nothing. By the way that's not being a Russian troll, it's being aware that not everything you're told is true.


----------



## SalarHaqq

jhungary said:


> Only thing is, it is not how it work.
> 
> 
> 
> https://tass.ru/info/6275043?utm_source=en.wikipedia.org&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=en.wikipedia.org&utm_referrer=en.wikipedia.org



If it's this paragraph you have in mind:

Для победы на выборах кандидату необходимо получить более 50% голосов. Если ни один из претендентов не наберет необходимого количества голосов, в двухнедельный срок проводится второй тур. В бюллетень для голосования вносятся фамилии двух кандидатов, показавших лучшие результаты в первом туре. Победителем признается тот, кто наберет наибольшее число голосов. Во втором туре также может принимать участие один претендент на высший государственный пост (если второй кандидат откажется баллотироваться менее чем за 12 дней до выборов). В этом случае для победы необходимо получить более половины голосов избирателей. 

Which "Google" translates as follows:

To win the election, a candidate needs to receive more than 50% of the votes. If none of the candidates receives the required number of votes, a second round is held within two weeks. The names of the two candidates who showed the best results in the first round are entered on the ballot paper. The winner is the one who gets the most votes. One contender for the highest state post can also take part in the second round (if the second candidate refuses to run less than 12 days before the election). In this case, to win, you need to get more than half of the votes.

Then let's look at it carefully. Here's what it's basically explaining:

1) Either the two top-ranked candidates of the first round both agree to run in the second round, and in that case a *simple majority* (i.e. *not* *necessarily more than 50%*) will be enough to win the election.

As expressed in these two sentences:

The names of the *two candidates* who showed the best results in the first round are entered *on the ballot paper*. *The winner is the one who gets the most votes.*

The one who gets the most votes. In other terms, it doesn't say that the winner has to score an absolute majority (i.e. >50%), it simply says the most votes, that is a simple majority (can be less than 50%).

2) Or, one of the two top-ranked candidates of the first round may refuse to run in the second round (by announcing it less than 12 days before the run-off election). In that case, and* in that case only*, will the single remaining candidate need to get more than 50% of votes in the second round.

Which is what the paragraph's two follow-on sentences convey:

*One contender* for the highest state post *can also take part in the second round (if the second candidate refuses to run* less than 12 days before the election). *In this case*, to win, *y**ou need to get more than half of the votes*.

Because that candidate would be running all alone in the second round, and so this rule is to ensure that the person will not be elected despite people casting a majority of "Against all" and/or invalid votes.

Hope this clears it up.



jhungary said:


> you are excluding those invalid and non-preferred vote even if you said they counted in the election. They counted in Overall tally, but do not count toward any of the candidate. If you taken out those invalid and non-prefer vote and don't count them in the total tally, then yes, Yanukovich would have won by 51% but then again this is NOT how it work.



I am not excluding them. I clearly explained that in Ukraine results do take into account "Against all" and invalid votes in the second round of a presidential election.

The alternate calculation I made was simply meant as an illustration of what Yanukovych's score would have been if Ukraine established the tally in the same way as other countries do. That's all.

The election was won by Yanukovych and there was nothing irregular about it. The declarations of OSCE and Council of Europe observers show that no election rules had been breached.

Therefore my initial statement stands, Yanukovych was democratically elected.

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## jhungary

SalarHaqq said:


> What's this article supposed to prove?



This is to show you how Ukrainian Election works



SalarHaqq said:


> I am not excluding them at all, and I clearly explained that in Ukraine results do take into account "Against all" and invalid votes in the second round of a presidential election.
> 
> The alternate calculation I made was simply meant as an illustration of what Yanukovych's score would have been if the Ukraine established the tally in the same way as other countries do. That's all.
> 
> The election was won by Yanukovych and there was nothing irregular about it. OSCE and Council of Europe observers made it clear that no electoral rules had been breached.
> 
> So I don't know what it is you're trying to find fault with, which neutral, professional election observers are supposed to have missed. Therefore my initial statement is correct, Yanukovych was democratically elected indeed.



Again, I have already said my piece, he did NOT have over 50% of vote as per Ukrainian Constitution lay out. I mean you can call what you want, you can call him marginally elected, or having a deal with the opponent, in term of Ukrainian constitution, he was not elected "Democratically", because to do that he need that number to be North of 50%.

You can try to tweak around the result to make it over 51% or like Trump said "Find me 12,000 vote so I can win Georgia" That does not mean it is true, and as I said, this is not how Ukrainian election works.

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## A.P. Richelieu

northeast said:


> Looks like you support invasion and colonialism if it suit your interest,fine.


No, that is why I oppose Russia.

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## Apollon

zartosht said:


> Boris Johnsons solution to people facing a cost of living crisis with inflation and soaring energy costs?
> 
> *" Just accept the paycut"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Boris Johnson tells workers to accept pay cuts or UK faces 1970s–style ‘stagflation’
> 
> 
> Prime minister blames Ukraine war for U-turn on promise to create a high-wage economy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These clowns have miscalculated big time. and the longer they wait to admit that defeat/humiliation. The harder the fall is going to be.
> 
> I doubt the mrs lucky sperm club "queen" , her long parasitic line of family "royalty" , or boris johnson, or weapons companies CEOs etcc will be having to "accept paycuts"
> 
> Now everyone shut up, and and fap to NLAW's being delivered to ukraine!!1!!! glorious victory is right around the corner -Boris Johnson



War costs. The alternative would be Europe under a facist russian regime. After Ukraine Baltics and Poland would be attacked next. Then Germany. Putin in a speech yesterday showed what a deluded crazy tyrant he is, comparing himself to Czar Peter I and how Russia should expand even more. 


Im willing to pay cuts, so are all that i know. The russians must be destroyed in Ukraine. 


Negotiations make no sense. It must end in their complete collapse

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## SalarHaqq

jhungary said:


> This is to show you how Ukrainian Election works
> 
> Again, I have already said my piece, he did NOT have over 50% of vote as per Ukrainian Constitution lay out. I mean you can call what you want, you can call him marginally elected, or having a deal with the opponent, in term of Ukrainian constitution, he was not elected "Democratically", because to do that he need that number to be North of 50%.
> 
> You can try to tweak around the result to make it over 51% or like Trump said "Find me 12,000 vote so I can win Georgia" That does not mean it is true, and as I said, this is not how Ukrainian election works.



I edited my previous reply to include your answer. You can refer to it for more details.

To summarize:

* *If two candidates* agree to run in the second round, then Ukrainian electoral law *does not require* the winner to receive over 50% of votes. Simple majority, including less than 50% will be enough.

* *If only one candidate* accepts to run in the second round, then Ukrainian electoral law demands that this one candidate receive over 50% of votes to be elected.

This is the actual rule. I can see where the confusion stems from but if you read the paragraph carefully, this is what it explains.

So yes, Yanukovych's win was legit.

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## jhungary

SalarHaqq said:


> I edited my previous reply to include your answer. You can refer to it for more details.
> 
> To summarize:
> 
> * *If two candidates* agree to run in the second round, then the Ukrainian election law *does not require* the winner to receive over 50% of votes. Simple majority, including less than 50% will be enough.
> 
> * *If only one candidate* accepts to run in the second round, then the Ukrainian election law demands that this one candidate receive over 50% of votes to be elected.
> 
> This is the actual rule. I can see where the confusion stems from, but if you read the paragraph carefully, this is what it says Ukrainian law stipulates for.
> 
> So yes, Yanukovych's win was legit.


lol, again, call it whatever you will, I am not going to circle back and write the same thing 3 (or 4 ) times, over and over again. 

Also, even if that is the case, you still can't oppose the fact that he left his post BEFORE Maidan (Again, seeing the first thing the angry mob did was to surround the Presidential Palace, the fact that he is still alive and well in Russia instead of being skinned alive suggest that he left before Maidan happen), so whatever point you made is moot either way....

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## Nuclear Clown

PMC Wagner burned down in Stakhanov .... A new recruitment has been opened.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534857386472706049


S10 said:


> About 100 to 200 Ukrainian KIA per day. The general ratio is about 5 wounded to every killed, so they're suffering anywhere from 500 to 1000 casualties per day. Russians might be doing slightly better thanks to firepower advantage, but I don't imagine casualties are light on their side in recent weeks as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian casualties: Kyiv losing up to 200 troops a day - Zelensky aide
> 
> 
> Mykhaylo Podolyak told the BBC that Ukraine needs more weapons to match Russia's firepower.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com


🤡
100-200 casualties = WIA+KIA
Rashist Orcs play turret throwing, Ukrainian humans don't


Vergennes said:


> More Russians coming back home in trashbags
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535008481266520064


*So, one of the two officers is...*








*There was already Vitali about 2 months ago...*








*NEVER 2 WITHOUT 3, NEXT ONE WILL BE : *









kingQamaR said:


> Russian oil exports were last week 10% down, but their revenues, due to price increases, were actually up 50% (source: International Energy Agency). The Russian oil firm Lukoil suggested that export be reduced 30% to maximise profit and save on production and transport costs. Now, the eu has said it will eventually stop buying oil from Russia, which will again increase the price. Even selling at a 20% discountprofit will be maintained. Sanctions are hurting everyone, and the longer they're applied for, the worse it will be, globally


No!
1. Less demand => prices fall
2. We're replacing the 3rd gen nuke turbines of our 58 NPPs (near all with 4x P'4 EPR 3817MWth reactor) with new gen of Siemens ones : 60%+ efficiency instead of 35%=> about 2.3GWe instead of 1.3GWe per reactor.
3. EU shale gas basins : time for fracking!!!




fracking does profits as soon the barrel is over $50...
4. We can unlock Venezuela's sanction regime, even if Biden opposes...

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## SalarHaqq

jhungary said:


> lol, again, call it whatever you will, I am not going to circle back and write the same thing 3 (or 4 ) times, over and over again.



I quoted the relevant paragraph bit by bit, and this makes its meaning clear.



jhungary said:


> Also, even if that is the case,



It definitely is.



jhungary said:


> you still can't oppose the fact that he left his post BEFORE Maidan (Again, seeing the first thing the angry mob did was to surround the Presidential Palace, the fact that he is still alive and well in Russia instead of being skinned alive suggest that he left before Maidan happen), so whatever point you made is moot either way....



Mob violence is not conforming to democratic principles.

You're free to believe NATO regimes and their intelligence services didn't have a hand in organizing and enabling those mobs. For my part, I will opt for the published literature (including from western sources) that points to such an intervention, and seems well researched and credible to me.

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## Nuclear Clown

northeast said:


> Said by a person from a country which founded by invasion and apartheid, very persuative.


Said by a person from a cuntry which founded on invasion, apartheid and GENOCIDE...








Muslim Uyghurs are forced to eat pork, drink alcohool and insult their prophet while kept in concentration camps...








China's infamous detention camps for Uyghurs uncovered; 18 centres spread across 8 cities


In the latest proof of the Chinese government’s atrocities against Muslim ethnic minority of Uyghurs, a 20-minute video has been released by a bespectacled man




www.republicworld.com












China is harvesting organs from Falun Gong members, finds expert panel


China is murdering members of the Falun Gong spiritual group and harvesting their organs for transplant, a panel of lawyers and experts said on Monday as they invited further investigations into a potential genocide.




www.reuters.com









Mao Zedong Genocide Example | GraduateWay


Get help on 【 Mao Zedong Genocide 】 on Graduateway ✅ Huge assortment of FREE essays & assignments ✅ The best writers!




graduateway.com




Chinese Comunist Party : #1 genocider in history ! Mao Zedong : 4x worse than Hitler...
*And always remember : *


----------



## Nuclear Clown

Apollon said:


> Putin in a speech yesterday showed what a deluded crazy tyrant he is, comparing himself to Czar Peter I and how Russia should expand even more.
> Im willing to pay cuts, so are all that i know. The russians must be destroyed in Ukraine.
> Negotiations make no sense. It must end in their complete collapse


*He believes he's PETER THE GREAT...
He's just PUTLER THE DREAD
Soon he'll be PUTLER OF THE DEAD




*

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## jhungary

SalarHaqq said:


> Mob violence is not conforming to democratic principles.
> 
> You're free to believe NATO regimes and their intelligence services had no hand in organizing and enabling those people. For my part, I will opt for the published literature (including from western sources) that points to such an intervention, and seems credible to me.


First of all, NATO definitely involved in this, not sure about US, but seeing how UK and EU react when Russia attack Ukraine. You would bet they have something to deal with it.

On the other hand, if he abandoned his post before Maidan, that have nothing to do with being conforming to democratic principal. Because, well, he abandoned his post before that happen.

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## S10

Raffie said:


> 100-200 casualties = WIA+KIA
> Rashist Orcs play turret throwing, Ukrainian humans don't



Stop trying to misrepresent the actual article dipshit. Take your "slava ukraini" crap elsewhere.

*A senior Ukrainian presidential aide has told the BBC that between 100 and 200 Ukrainian troops are being killed on the front line every day.*
Mykhaylo Podolyak said Ukraine needed hundreds of Western artillery systems to level the playing field with Russia in the eastern Donbas region.









Ukrainian casualties: Kyiv losing up to 200 troops a day - Zelensky aide


Mykhaylo Podolyak told the BBC that Ukraine needs more weapons to match Russia's firepower.



www.bbc.com

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## jhungary

Very good Q&A session about Ukrainian War with Prof Michael Clark






If you have a question about the war, chances are you are going to find the answer there.


----------



## sammuel

northeast said:


> Said by a person from a country which founded by invasion and apartheid, very persuative.



Just another example of a conflict that should have been sorted by an agreement 70 years ago , and would have spared 70 years of pointless fighting.

But the Russian invasion of Ukraine is not a fight between two nations fighting for survival .

It is one powerful nation invading another country in order to subjugate them and steal their resources. More like what china did to Tibet.

~

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## Nuclear Clown

_Putin compares himself to Peter the Great in quest to take back Russian lands

_​


jhungary said:


> First of all, NATO definitely involved in this, not sure about US, but seeing how UK and EU react when Russia attack Ukraine. You would bet they have something to deal with it.


It's the contrary : US stated Dept., not NATO...
Fattie Vickie (Nuland) with Geoffrey Pyatt (them ambassador) have put some stuff in place... And a great time of US diplomacy nobody has forgotten in the EU...🤬




BTW, NATO has no such capability on its own... Actually, most of NATO criticisms are hilarious because those doing these are parroting utter BS propaganda from penguins not even understanding what NATO is...


----------



## jamahir

sammuel said:


> But the Russian invasion of Ukraine is not a fight between two nations fighting for survival .
> 
> It is one powerful nation invading another country in order to subjugate them and steal their resources. More like what china did to Tibet.
> 
> ~



Or like what NATO did to Iraq, Libya and doing to Venezuela.

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## vi-va

F-22Raptor said:


> Much less accurate than American systems, and can only fire one volley per hour. HIMARS and M270 can fire 5 volleys per hour.
> 
> Russia is relying on massed artillery barrages to advance. Thats the only thing working for them. Once in sufficient numbers, HIMARS and M270 are going to rip Russian artillery formations a new one.


Do you have comparison or data to prove the accuracy superiority?
Thanks in advance.


----------



## Paul2

sammuel said:


> 100 years after World War 1 , we see countries pounding each other with huge cannons for months , like a bunch of Neanderthals.
> 
> This is how much humanity has developed. We may have internet and iPhones , but this has not eliminated bloody wars. Even worse , with all this technology , now it is out there for all to see.
> 
> as for the reason for this war :
> 
> People seems to have all sort of complicated explanations for that. As if dictators deciding to invade and annex a neighbouring country , is something new in history.
> 
> From Alexander of Macedon to Napoleon Bonaparte . Dictators like to invade other countries ,and care little of the suffering they cause.
> 
> I am talking about Mr white judo pants , Mr long table , Putin.
> 
> Who instead of helping the world , by battling the hard issues the world is facing like Viruses , food shortage , climate change , thought it wise to drag the world into a new , long forgotten , 1950s , arm race.
> 
> Instead of allocating all our resources to solve the challenges we all face.
> 
> ~



The long peace we had since WW2 was due to one thing only - the presence of one global superpower which can smack anybody else with 1 finger.

Now that 1 finger has broken, and the superpower is afraid to use the whole fist.

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## kingQamaR

jamahir said:


> Or like what NATO did to Iraq, Libya and doing to Venezuela.



People repeat themselves because they want to be heard.



jhungary said:


> First of all, NATO definitely involved in this, not sure about US, but seeing how UK and EU react when Russia attack Ukraine. You would bet they have something to deal with it.
> 
> On the other hand, if he abandoned his post before Maidan, that have nothing to do with being conforming to democratic principal. Because, well, he abandoned his post before that happen.



It isn’t. Only Putin is responsible for the war in Ukraine. However, by indicating that he would tolerate a ‘minor incursion’ President Biden made war more likely


----------



## vi-va

K_Bin_W said:


> Those Thermobaric weapons are real bad a$$, I saw some video documentaries about how they work and in action... The best defense is to keep away..


Thermobaric weapons not works well in open field, but white phosphorus bomb, cluster bomb do.



Paul2 said:


> The long peace we had since WW2 was due to one thing only - the presence of one global superpower which can smack anybody else with 1 finger.
> 
> Now that 1 finger has broken, and the superpower is afraid to use the whole fist.


You totally forgot Korean War and Vietnam War? U.S. was defeated in both battlefield.

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## jamahir

kingQamaR said:


> People repeat themselves because they want to be heard.



Who are you talking about ?


----------



## ZeGerman

jamahir said:


> Or like what NATO did to Iraq, Libya and doing to Venezuela.


Not really. It is not like america annexes these countries and erases their statehood from existence. 

Both iraq and libya were also ruled by a dictator at the time. 


And many in europe were in opposition of the iraq war. Now you cheer on russia to do the same (worse) as america, while the generally pacifistic europeans suffer.

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## jamahir

ZeGerman said:


> And many in europe were in opposition of the iraq war. Now you cheer on russia to do the same (worse) as america, while the generally pacifistic europeans suffer.



1. I know that in 2003 there were those civilians in Britain at least who opposed the soon-to-start invasion. And the then government leaders of Germany and France were very against the invasion. Gerhard Schroder became close to Russia.

2. Perhaps you want to relive Nazi Germany in form of the UkroNazis. 



ZeGerman said:


> Both iraq and libya were also ruled by a dictator at the time.



The Libyan Jamahiriya was the first true democracy in the modern world after that idea having been thought up in Greece 2500 years ago. To start with please read this post of mine on what is democracy, what is not and then about the Libyan Jamahiriya.



Raffie said:


> spetsNAZIS are cockroaches... Ukraine should use SARIN against them...



@Foinikas @SalarHaqq @Hassan Al-Somal @_Nabil_, here we have a French Nazi supporting UkroNazis against the Russians who removed the sword of Nazism from the heads of the French 80 years ago.

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## Foinikas

Raffie said:


> Russia plans no more than 750,000 car sales for 2022... 2021 : 1.5million
> -50%...
> 
> View attachment 852907
> 
> spetsNAZIS are cockroaches... Ukraine should use SARIN against them...


Come on,I expected a better post from you


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Smashed Ukrainian army M777 155 mm howitzer which was terrorizing the children of Donbas.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535200690049523715
Zala recon drones which locate Ukrainian army artillery that terrorize the children of Donbas.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535192191546576896

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## sammuel

jamahir said:


> Or like what NATO did to Iraq, Libya and doing to Venezuela.



I was not aware that Iraq was under occupation.

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## _Nabil_

jamahir said:


> @Foinikas @SalarHaqq @Hassan Al-Somal @_Nabil_, here we have a French Nazi supporting UkroNazis against the Russians who removed the sword of Nazism from the heads of the French 80 years ago.


Shit posts as usual, nothing new. French are smarter in general 🤔

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535180869798924288

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## RoadAmerica

PakFactor said:


> Never mind those guys are Ukrainian citizens. Anyways still execute them.


It’s illegal genius


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535175644857909249

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535180151750897666

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## RoadAmerica

_Nabil_ said:


> Shit posts as usual, nothing new. French are smarter in general 🤔


You’re a nazi, see how easy that was and stupid that sounds 🙄

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535173884588306432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535173759350587393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535173759350587393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534218928326574081

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## Nuclear Clown

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Loads of Ukrainians fleeing Ukraine, dying of disease due to poor healthcare because of war, dying of hunger because of loss of agricultural land in the southeast. Probably millions of Ukrainians be gone from Ukraine before the end of the year. Sad end to the country.


In fact, there are near as many people fleeing Russia... 
Lavrov's daughter in law is in London in a £4M appartment, Putin's daughter lives between her €8 millions house in Biaritz, France and Munich, Germany, where her boyfriend named Zelensky is a dancer. Most of rich Russians have moved their yachts in the UAE to dodge seizure meanwhile, in ruSSia... 












Russia is deliberately spreading cholera in Ukraine to exterminate the population. Russia is destroying Ukraine's agriculture to starve Ukrainians like during Holodomor when Stalin used famine to murder 10 millions Ukrainians... We can expect China to bring Putin with a new COVID-19 mutation to attack Ukraine and the EU again...




*Maybe we should consider to retaliate with nuclear weapons?*


----------



## RoadAmerica

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Smashed Ukrainian army M777 155 mm howitzer which was terrorizing the children of Donbas.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535200690049523715
> Zala recon drones which locate Ukrainian army artillery that terrorize the children of Donbas.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535192191546576896


The children, give me a break 🙄
Doenst russia do the same in that case? Oh I forgot they’re the great protectors of Ukraine 😂


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> The children, give me a break 🙄
> Doenst russia do the same in that case? Oh I forgot they’re the great protectors of Ukraine 😂



Ukrainians are not civilized. They shell children of Donbas. Do you see Russians shell children of Kiev? Do you?

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## Paul2

Most worrying development is that Russian artillery is getting better.

They stopped losing it to counterfire, and on overall their targeting, and coordination gets better.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russian army artillery guided by drones hammering Ukrainian army artillery that terrorize the children of Donbas.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535202842457346048
Rebel army hand me down artillery in action.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535213227298136071


Paul2 said:


> Most worrying development is that Russian artillery is getting better.
> 
> They stopped losing it to counterfire, and on overall their targeting, and coordination gets better.



Ukrainian counter battery radars are likely smashed by Su-35 SEAD / DEAD jets which are armed with anti radar missiles.

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## Viet

Raffie said:


> In fact, there are near as many people fleeing Russia...
> Lavrov's daughter in law is in London in a £4M appartment, Putin's daughter lives between her €8 millions house in Biaritz, France and Munich, Germany, where her boyfriend named Zelensky is a dancer. Most of rich Russians have moved their yachts in the UAE to dodge seizure meanwhile, in ruSSia...
> View attachment 852911
> 
> View attachment 852912
> View attachment 852913
> 
> Russia is deliberately spreading cholera in Ukraine to exterminate the population. Russia is destroying Ukraine's agriculture to starve Ukrainians like during Holodomor when Stalin used famine to murder 10 millions Ukrainians... We can expect China to bring Putin with a new COVID-19 mutation to attack Ukraine and the EU again...
> View attachment 852915
> 
> *Maybe we should consider to retaliate with nuclear weapons?*


Putin clearly says that. In assays, in speeches. Ukraine has no right to live. He wants to exterminate Ukraine including the population as he sees them Nazi. He will populate the country with settlers. Lavrov will then realize his dream: making a new democratic world order with China.
Putin is nothing more than a clone of Stalin and other murderous leaders in Russia history.
Yes Russians themselves remain poor and backward as seen in the past, today and forever.


----------



## _Nabil_

RoadAmerica said:


> You’re a nazi, see how easy that was and stupid that sounds 🙄


Just sound strange, coming from someone supporting Nazis 😁, should I take it as a compliment?

That was also easy and stupid.

If only he write down his ideas like any other member, without cartoon pictures, collages, and stupid stuff like the washing machine in the Russian helicopter, is that asking much?

Again being French, you should do better than this, French journalists, thinkers and analysts from different eras and political colour are the best.

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Or like what NATO did to Iraq, Libya and doing to Venezuela.



NATO does nothing in Venezuela and was not active in iraq

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## TNT

Raffie said:


> $1 million, migration in the chosen western country and new identity if wanted for any Ka-52 or Mi-28N surrendered
> View attachment 852606
> 
> The pilot of this one didn't earned $1 million:
> View attachment 852607
> 
> Fox-2... Splash !!!
> View attachment 852604
> 
> Mi-28 in Ukraine :
> View attachment 852601
> 
> *Banned from exporting stolen Ukrainian washing machine...
> Another one bites the dust :
> View attachment 852605
> *
> Ka-52, Mi-28N or Mi-24 are dead meat for predators like ManPADS and modern AA-guns. Orcs call Ka-52, Mi-28N or Mi-24 as "flying tanks" and as all Russian tanks, these do a long migration just to die in Ukraine as it sucks less than Russia's abysses rulled by Darth Putin... HiWestern MLRS may not need air defences: they also can launch AMRAAM as SAMs...
> 
> They can't even fit AESA on $75M Su-35 which gets clubbed like a baby seal by UkrAF Soviet-era MiG-29, likely upgraded with western combat systems
> View attachment 852610
> 
> Su-34 ain't got AESA too...
> View attachment 852611
> 
> And you say they have AESA on cheap Ka-52 or M-28N????
> Then, there is AESA and aesa
> _*PLAAF Senior Pilot Reveals Poor Performance in Joint Exercise With RTAF*_
> 
> The Mistral ManPADS is not well known from the public, but... You really don't want to be in an Orcs' chopper when this baby is around : much better performances than Stinger, no known countermeasures...
> View attachment 852603
> 
> 
> I think that US stayed twice as long as Russia in Afghanistan with barely the quarter of their losses, and they only came to bust Osama bin Laden...
> If I remember well, USA demolished the Taliban regime in a very short time lapse, they could have stayed forever, and even annihilated the Taliban insurgency, but at which cost? They should have killed 2 millions Afghans while they just came for a single terrorist... The US military weren't defeated, it's the Afghan army that didn't fought at all when the Yanks pulled out!
> Within 3 months in Ukraine, Russia has already lost twice as much personnel as in 10 years in Afghanistan, this implies about 100,000 casualties including 30-35k fatalities... Half of their their tanks have been blown, Russian air force and helicopters can"t operate, they were unable to achieve air superiority.
> In fact, the 1991 NATO's 1st Gulf War deployment would give exactly the same beating to today's Russia it then gave to Saddam
> View attachment 852712



So resort to bribing when things not going well on the ground lolz why else would anyone pay a million dollar to a pilot??
And that is not a washing machine u dumb troll.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Putin clearly says that. In assays, in speeches. Ukraine has no right to live. He wants to exterminate Ukraine including the population as he sees them Nazi. He will populate the country with settlers. Lavrov will then realize his dream: making a new democratic world order with China.
> Putin is nothing more than a clone of Stalin and other murderous leaders in Russia history.
> Yes Russians themselves remain poor and backward as seen in the past, today and forever.



And why not? China and Russia are masters of the Old World. The most populous countries of Asia and Europe, respectively. America has no right to rule the world. America is not in the Old World.

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## Two banks of the River

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535207170907820032

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## TNT

Raffie said:


> Note that J-11D and J-10C are equipped with the same AESA radar as the J-20, FC--31 as well as new JF-17 block.3.



😂😂😂 Heavy, medium and light fighter all using the same radar?? Shows only an utter stupid brainless moron like u will believe in that propaganda.

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## RoadAmerica

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Ukrainians are not civilized. They shell children of Donbas. Do you see Russians shell children of Kiev? Do you?


Well actually the Russians have reduced many eastern cities to ruble and please spare me they evacuated the children first


----------



## northeast

sammuel said:


> Just another example of a conflict that should have been sorted by and agreement 70 years ago , and would have spared 70 years of pointless fighting.
> 
> But the Russian invasion of Ukraine is not a fight between two nations fighting for survival .
> 
> It is one powerful nation invading another country in order to subjugate them and steal their resources. More like what china did to Tibet.
> 
> ~


Israeli army are actively killing palestinian right now day and night,and you care about tibet which belong to china since hundreds of years ago more? Do you also care about the fact that westerners occupying USA,canada and australia and massacred millions of Indians more than what's happening in israel right now too?

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## Apollon

northeast said:


> Israeli army are actively killing palestinian right now day and night,and you care about tibet which belong to china since hundreds of years ago more? Do you also care about westerners occupying USA,canada and australia and massacred millions of Indians more than what's happening in israel right now too?



Good thing is that China gives zero support to Russia and watchs them drown


----------



## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> And why not? China and Russia are masters of the Old World. The most populous countries of Asia and Europe, respectively. America has no right to rule the world. America is not in the Old World.


Master of stupidity
Also, China has a very violent history. I think they are not too stupid now to follow the brainless russian zombies. Chinese will just issue some worthless propaganda toward the west to please Putin. Nothing more of substance.


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> NATO does nothing in Venezuela



Not only was an Israeli sniper caught some years ago but among other things what is this ?


> *Operation Gideon* (Spanish: _Operación Gedeón_) was an unsuccessful attempt by Venezuelan dissidents and an American private military company, Silvercorp USA, to infiltrate Venezuela by sea and remove Nicolás Maduro from office in Venezuela. The plan involved entering the country by boat into Macuto port from 3 to 4 May 2020 in order to take control of Simón Bolívar International Airport in Maiquetia, capture Maduro and other high-level figures in his government, and expel them from the country. The operation had been infiltrated by officials of the Maduro government early on. Commentators and observers, including Guaidó officials who initially contacted Silvercorp, described the operation as amateurish, underfunded, poorly-planned, having little or no chance of success, and a suicide mission.
> 
> The operation occurred in the broader context of an ongoing international dispute beginning in January 2019 over the identity of the legitimate president of Venezuela; Nicolás Maduro or Juan Guaidó. Throughout 2019, Maduro had maintained control of Venezuela's military agencies and key governmental institutions.[17][18] The state intelligence agencies, as well as the Associated Press, had prior knowledge of the plot, which was intercepted before the first boat reached land.
> 
> The attack went forward despite its impracticality, with Silvercorp founder Jordan Goudreau possibly motivated by a multi-million dollar reward offered by the United States to arrest or assist with the arrest of Maduro and his high-ranking officials in connection with federal indictments filed in late March 2020 alleging involvement in drug-trafficking activity. The raid involved two fiberglass motorboats owned by Silvercorp which launched from eastern Colombia toward the Caribbean coast of Venezuela north of Caracas. The boats were carrying approximately 60 Venezuelan dissidents and two American former Green Berets employed as mercenaries by Silvercorp. Eight Venezuelan dissidents were killed and seventeen invaders were captured, including the two American security contractors, whose interrogations were broadcast on state television in the hours following the event.
> 
> After the attack, it became public that a formal document setting out the objective of the operation was signed in October 2019 between Silvercorp and Guaidó's Strategy Committee, which Guaidó had formed with the goal of exploring all available options for removing Maduro from power and installing himself as president. Guaidó's Strategy Committee reportedly withdrew from the agreement and cut off ties with Silvercorp and Goudreau in November 2019. Juan Guaidó, his Strategy Committee, and officials of the Colombian and United States governments have all denied any role in the actual attack that went forward on 3 May 2020.





> Background​Main article: Venezuelan presidential crisis
> A power struggle concerning who is the legitimate president of Venezuela began in January 2019, when Juan Guaidó, president of the opposition-majority National Assembly, declared that incumbent Nicolás Maduro's 2018 re-election was invalid; that the office of the president of Venezuela was therefore vacant; and that he was assuming office as acting president of the nation.[19] Guaidó has been officially recognized as the legitimate president of Venezuela by almost 60 governments internationally, including the governments of the United States and Canada; Colombia, Brazil, and the majority of Latin American countries; and the United Kingdom, France, Germany, and Spain, among other European countries.[20] Other nations, including Russia, China, South Africa, Iran, Syria, Cuba, Nicaragua, North Korea and Turkey, have continued to recognize Maduro as the legitimate head of state.


Some more detail :


> 11/MAY/2020
> The recent attempt by United States mercenaries to land in Venezuela and overthrow President Nicolas Maduro – Operation Gideon – may be “straight out of Hollywood” but it would be a mistake to assume the director and producers of this failed plot were working on their own. The Trump administration, working through the US military’s Southern Command (SouthCom) has been preparing to facilitate attempts to go after Maduro for some time now. This is evident from the following events and public statements. Obviously, this is only the tip of the iceberg. A lot more is likely to have gone on secretly.
> In the middle of the struggle against COVID-19, US defence secretary Mark Esper announced at a White House briefing on April 1 that the US would double its naval deployment under SouthCom’s capacity to conduct ‘anti-drug operations’ in the Caribbean. The additional naval assets include destroyers, littoral combat ships, coast guard cutters, patrol vessels, AWACS and JSTARS aircrafts, helicopters, surveillance drones and Security Forces Assistance Brigade Company for advise and assist. This is clearly overkill since drug interdiction clearly does not need such expensive and massive destructive assets. Moreover, a major part – an estimated 80% – of sea-based drug trafficking takes place on the Pacific side, according to the US authorities themselves. So why the deployment in the Caribbean and not in the Pacific?
> 
> The media reported that the deployment announced is one of the largest US military operations in the region since the 1989 invasion of Panama to remove General Manuel Noriega from power and bring him to the US to face drug charges. The reference to Noriega was made intentionally by the administration to inspire those who wanted to go after Maduro.
> 
> In January this year, a littoral combat ship, _USS Detroit_, had conducted a “freedom-of-navigation” operation close to Venezuela’s coastline to test the preparedness of Venezuelan navy. The Venezuelans made some noise but they could not do anything about it.
> On August 19, 2019, Adm. Craig Faller, the head of SouthCom, said military officials are focusing on preparing for “the day after” the “isolated” Venezuelan president eaves power. In an interview on April 21, 2020, he claimed that the recent decision to double anti-narcotics assets in Latin America was months in the making and not directly tied to Maduro’s indictment in New York on charges of leading a narcoterrorist conspiracy.
> 
> Against the backdrop of heightened tension, a mysterious cruise ship, _RCGS Resolute,_ was involved in an incident off the Venezuelan coast on March 30, 2020, which led to the sinking of a Venezuelan coast guard patrol boat following a collision. The cruise ship did not have any passengers but had a hull strong enough to sink the Venezuelan patrol boat, without any damage to itself. The Venezuelans accused the vessel of committing an act of “aggression and piracy” by intentionally ramming and sinking their patrol boat. The cruise vessel went away to Curacao, leaving the job of rescuing the 44 crew members of the patrol boat to the Venezuelans. Adm. Faller’s comment on this incident was telling: “It was a bad day for the Venezuelans. Their lack of seamanship and lack of integrity is indicative of how it all played out.”
> 
> US secretary of state Mike Pompeo responded to a question from the media, saying that “the US government had “no direct” involvement in this operation”. When Operation Gideon was a flop show, the US administration had no option but to distance themselves.
> 
> In answering another question, Pompeo said, “As for who bankrolled it, we are not prepared to share any more information about what we know took place. We will unpack that at an appropriate time”.
> The US administration’s role has caused disquiet on Capitol Hill with three Democratic senators on the house foreign affairs committee writing to Pompeo to say any support given to military operations is illegal:
> “Either the U.S. government was unaware of these planned operations, or was aware and allowed them to proceed. Both possibilities are problematic. As you know, the _VERDAD Act_, which President Trump signed into law on December 20, 2019, states that “it is the policy of the United States to support diplomatic engagement in order to advance a negotiated and peaceful solution to Venezuela’s political, economic, and humanitarian crisis.” Armed raids, even if they are carried out by independent actors, run counter to that policy. Moreover, such incursions harm the prospects for a peaceful democratic transition in Venezuela by insinuating that an armed intervention is a viable option to resolve the crisis, potentially undermining the willingness of hardline opposition actors to negotiate…”
> It is possible that the financing could have come from the Venezuelan government funds and assets, estimated at $11 billion, which have been frozen by US authorities in the name of sanctions. Recently, the Trump administration moved $342 million belonging to the Venezuelan Central Bank from a frozen Citibank account to another account at the New York Federal Reserve. On April 15, the National Assembly led by opposition leader Juan Guaido approved in a virtual session, access to some funds that had recently been released by the US government. This money is being used, among other things, to pay for the diplomats appointed by Guaido in countries which recognise him.
> 
> There are two main reasons for the failure of the invasion attempt. First, Cuban intelligence, which is advising the Venezuelan regime, is always one step ahead of their American counterparts. The Cubans have an impeccable record of preventing and stopping numerous American attempts to assassinate Fidel Castro and invade their country. This is expertise gained over a long period of 60 years, day in and day out. The Cuban intelligence agency is embedded not only with their Venezuelan counterparts but also in the Venezuelan military to guard against conspirators and putschists. The late president Hugo Chavez started this system after the coup against him in 2002.
> 
> Second, the Americans do not have in-person contacts within Venezuela to understand the real situation in the country, recruit allies, provide support and prepare the ground from within. “Why there are no coups in the US?”, a Chilean journalist asked US president Barack Obama during Michelle Bachelet’s visit to the White House in 2009. “The reason is because there is no American embassy in Washington!” Well, there is no US embassy in Caracas either. This is a major handicap for Trump. Before 2002, the US military attache had his office within the Venezuelan army headquarters. Chavez expelled them out after the coup.
> 
> The US policy of regime change by hook or crook is not going to stop after the abject failure of Operation Gideon. Washington will continue to bet on clandestine military and paramilitary attempts to overthrow the government there rather than relying on genuine negotiations or democratic means. This is clear from the appointment of Elliot Abrams as the US special representative for Venezuela in January 2019. Abrams has a notorious track record of using US military and covert assistance in the 1980s, causing thousands of deaths and civil wars in Central America.
> 
> As assistant secretary of state in the Reagan administration, Abrams had arranged the supply of arms and other support to the Rios Mont dictatorship in Guatemala, which massacred several thousand indigenous people, the rightwing death squads in El Salvador which killed leftists in the thousands and the Contras who committed atrocities against the Nicaraguan people in their war against the Sandinista government. He was indicted for his involvement in the Iran-Contra scandal but got out with a presidential pardon. Abrams was said to have had a hand in the coup against Chavez in 2002. So long as Abrams is the point man for Venezuela, one should expect more Gideon type operations.
> 
> _A retired Indian Foreign Service officer, R. Viswanathan has served as Indian ambassador to Venezuela, Argentina and Colombia._

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## Bengal71

RescueRanger said:


> The DNR kangaroo court has sentenced the three captured members of Ukraine Foreign Legion to death.


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## northeast

Apollon said:


> Good thing is that China gives zero support to Russia and watchs them drown


Well,We could do more if they have something to exchange. After all,this is not our war,we could get nothing even if russians take the whole ukraine.

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Not only was an Israeli sniper caught some years ago but among other things what is this ?
> 
> 
> Some more detail :



NATO is not USA. That little info for you



northeast said:


> Well,We could do more if they have something to exchange. After all,this is not our war,we could get nothing even if russians take the whole ukraine.



Economy is harsh, Russia has nothing to offer. I understand china

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> NATO is not USA. That little info for you



Yes yes, USA government and CIA are totally disconnected from the 73-year-old NATO's global war on Communism and Socialism, not to mention involving Israel in this too.


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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Yes yes, USA government and CIA are totally disconnected from the 73-year-old NATO's global war on Communism and Socialism, not to mention involving Israel in this too.



We dont need nato to fight communists. In Greece we hang them on trees before nato existed


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## Type59

Two banks of the River said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535207170907820032


Probably fake, we all know western weapons are immune to destruction.

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## ZeGerman

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Ukrainians are not civilized. They shell children of Donbas. Do you see Russians shell children of Kiev? Do you?











Killed as he escaped, Elisei is one of 200 child victims - BBC News


As fighting rages across Ukraine, Russia's invasion has shattered the lives of millions of children.




www.bbc.com





UN well documented hundreds of killed children due to russian agression. 
With millions becoming refugees due to this war. Fleeing to west ukraine or further. 
Countless of bombing on appartment centres/hospitals/daycares. Even the mariupol theatre. 

So Dont give me this utter shyte about russia “saving the children”. The handfull of casualties on the dpr side since this war absolutely pales in comparison. 

Shame on you for parroting russian propaganda for some extra yuen in your pocket. 
What a way to betray your ukranian silkroad partners. To betray the memory of your chinese forefathers fighting against imperialist empire Japan.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> Killed as he escaped, Elisei is one of 200 child victims - BBC News
> 
> 
> As fighting rages across Ukraine, Russia's invasion has shattered the lives of millions of children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN well documented hundreds of killed children due to russian agression.
> With millions becoming refugees due to this war. Fleeing to west ukraine or further.
> Countless of bombing on appartment centres/hospitals/daycares. Even the mariupol theatre.
> 
> So Dont give me this utter shyte about russia “saving the children”. The handfull of casualties on the dpr side since this war absolutely pales in comparison.
> 
> Shame on you for parroting russian propaganda for some extra yuen in your pocket.
> What a way to betray your ukranian silkroad partners. To betray the memory of your chinese forefathers fighting against imperialist empire Japan.



You Dutch sent all your artillery to Ukrainian army to terrorize Donbas children. Shame on you. This coming from a Chinese. All your artillery will be smashed in Donbas.

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## zartosht

Apollon said:


> War costs. The alternative would be Europe under a facist russian regime. After Ukraine Baltics and Poland would be attacked next. Then Germany. Putin in a speech yesterday showed what a deluded crazy tyrant he is, comparing himself to Czar Peter I and how Russia should expand even more.
> 
> 
> Im willing to pay cuts, so are all that i know. The russians must be destroyed in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> Negotiations make no sense. It must end in their complete collapse



You need to get this “we” thing out of your vocabulary. Its just paathetic seeing a false flagger indian/zionist or wtf you are 

Constabtly claim to speak for the entire western world. Shut up already you pathetic troll. Its not funny if thats your intention. Its just sad and pathetic.

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## TNT

Apollon said:


> We dont need nato to fight communists. In Greece we hang them on trees before nato existed



What a barbaric and backward society. Shows u ppl are no better than taliban or IRGC or even animals.


----------



## ZeGerman

Tai Hai Chen said:


> You Dutch sent all your artillery to Ukrainian army to terrorize Donbas children. Shame on you. This coming from a Chinese. All your artillery will be smashed in Donbas.


With no russian air dominance and our artillery outranging the russian?

What we are going to see is more and more russian artillery (used to flatten cities) being destroyed with counter-battery fire. 

I just hope the artillery arrives in the time/numbers needed. 
Ukraine is still outnumbered currently.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

rebel training footage


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535211973021151236


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## Apollon

zartosht said:


> You need to get this “we” thing out of your vocabulary. Its just paathetic seeing a false flagger indian/zionist or wtf you are
> 
> Constabtly claim to speak for the entire western world. Shut up already you pathetic troll. Its not funny if thats your intention. Its just sad and pathetic.



I speak for myself. I want see Russia crushed and destroyed to the point that it cant harm me, my life, my country and my family. And thanks god my government, the EU, NATO and USA do exactly that



TNT said:


> What a barbaric and backward society. Shows u ppl are no better than taliban or IRGC or even animals.



Better dead than red.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> With no russian air dominance and our artillery outranging the russian?
> 
> What we are going to see is more and more russian artillery (used to flatten cities) being destroyed with counter-battery fire.
> 
> I just hope the artillery arrives in the time/numbers needed.
> Ukraine is still outnumbered currently.



Russia has Su-57 stealth jets that bomb artillery from hundreds of kilometers away. Nice try though. Your Dutch artillery will all be smashed in Donbas. The sun is setting on the West. The rise of China and Russia is inevitable. China and Russia are the most populous countries in Asia and Europe, respectively.






for reference






Meanwhile, the West does not dare to fight China and Russia because of neo liberalism induced decay.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535240172945690631

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535246809886490624

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535240172945690631



With Donbas grain, Russia's food shortage will be no more, Russia's population will reach its 1991 level of 153 million over the next 10 years.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535209703634083842

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499636847689015297

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535193673717137408

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535092787758059520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535092151385698304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535085743147585538

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535207653768560642

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535213039347171329

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535251271090937859

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534872984455991297

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534843885276516352

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535213227298136071

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535202842457346048

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## wahhab0202

For a man in his 70's and being accused to have all kind of cancers I will say he is very energetic.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535134507392806912

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

wahhab0202 said:


> For a man in his 70's and being accused to have all kind of cancers I will say he is very energetic.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535134507392806912



Wunder drug does wonderful things.

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## Viet

wahhab0202 said:


> For a man in his 70's and being accused to have all kind of cancers I will say he is very energetic.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535134507392806912


Instead of taking back here a there, about to invent or he can do something against global warming?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Western elites are financially suffocating any journalist who don't toe the line with their mainstream propaganda campaign in Ukraine. The below 2 guys have their PayPal and Venmo accounts suspended simply because they chose telling the truth over repeating propaganda in the current war in Ukraine.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535069294756630528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534973546753052676

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535274324730552320

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534951055112511489

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535173740245442561

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535019623761858561

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535277515744354305


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535019623761858561



It seems presenting some random pictures and calling it a Russian tank with an old tv placed on top of it is the new propaganda from Western propagandista. Why didn't you just show it a Ukrainian farmer towing it? That lame talking-point used to be the norm at the beginning of this conflict, but since the Russian and pro-Russian forces are seizing territories, it can no longer be used, it seems.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535195524810395649

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## sammuel

Raffie said:


> Yeah, it's a clothes drier, ooops, sorry, its parts are also used as the Su-57's radar, the goal of the Special Military Operation is to seize enough washing machines to keep Sukhoi able to sell "monkey models" for the next 50 years
> Actually, it's $40,000 for Waffen-SS infantry defectors... It's the best way for them to not end being returned to Babushka in the infamous LIDL 150L trashbag, made in Germany.
> All Russians with money have fled to the west, the west loves life more than Putin loves death.
> There's a single point I agree with Putin : Russia has definitively the best whores in the world... Well, I should say "had" : we have Russian prostitutes everywhere, your only whore left is Vladimirovna Putina
> View attachment 852928
> 
> Now he believes he's Peter the Great...
> He's just Putler the Dread
> Soon he'll be Putler of the Dead
> View attachment 852939
> 
> Meanwhile, in Moscow's biggest mall...
> 
> View attachment 852931
> 
> View attachment 852932



is there a reason you misquote me ?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535254622583291904
Maasha'Allah


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535254109544411142

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## Nuclear Clown

jamahir said:


> Yes yes, USA government and CIA are totally disconnected from the 73-year-old NATO's global war on Communism and Socialism, not to mention involving Israel in this too.


Maybe you should start to read an encyclopedia about what NATO is and how it is structured... BTW, many NATO countries even had socialist governments during the Cold-War, sometimes even with some communist ministers in, look at the Mitterrand administration in France, 1981-1995... And it was the French under his tenure who did the Operation Farewell and dismantled all KGB networks in the West. You don't seem to get that the Soviets murdered more leftists and commies than Hitler. For sure, Soviets helped India, but you don't know their true face! 









*Moreover, even Putin declared that anyone wanting communism back has no brain!
According to its inventor Benito Mussolini, fascism is capitalism pushed to the extreme. Putin's wealth is about the double of Jeff Bezos... *
And when Putin sells monkey-models of Russian weapons to India, he also sells more advanced versions to India's enemies

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535282423512145920

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535282423512145920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535282548149997569

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535282423512145920
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535282548149997569





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535212719464644609

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535213354675224576

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535245958577065984
More French artillery on the way

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## sammuel

northeast said:


> ? Do you also care about the fact that westerners occupying USA,canada and australia and massacred millions of Indians



So it is Ok for Putin to invade Ukraine , because of something that the Americans did to the Indians.

Great Logic.






~

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Raffie said:


> Maybe you should start to read an encyclopedia about what NATO is and how it is structured... BTW, many NATO countries even had socialist governments during the Cold-War, sometimes even with some communist ministers in, look at the Mitterrand administration in France, 1981-1995... And it was the French under his tenure who did the Operation Farewell and dismantled all KGB networks in the West. You don't seem to get that the Soviets murdered more leftists and commies than Hitler. For sure, Soviets helped India, but you don't know their true face!
> View attachment 852948
> 
> View attachment 852950
> 
> *Moreover, even Putin declared that anyone wanting communism back has no brain!
> According to its inventor Benito Mussolini, fascism is capitalism pushed to the extreme. Putin's wealth is about the double of Jeff Bezos... *
> And when Putin sells monkey-models of Russian weapons to India, he also sells more advanced versions to India's enemies



NATO is an American created organization. There is no NATO without America. Indeed, as America weakens, NATO will eventually be disbanded in a few decades.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535245958577065984
> More French artillery on the way



Su-57 smash French artillery in Donbas.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534960928478875655

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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535282423512145920
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535282548149997569





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535286866379157504

Completely obliterated

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## northeast

sammuel said:


> So it is Ok for Putin to invade Ukraine , because of something that the Americans did to the Indians.
> 
> Great Logic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


No, I just think the peace blahblah said by an israeli is not so persuative and a little hypocritical. Maybe you should try not to take the land from palestinian and stop killing palestinian firstly.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535266405351927808

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535157216864612359

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535154130003673089

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535154134286053376


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## F-22Raptor

The Ukrainians have pushed a lot more heavy artillery to the Donbass front in the last week. 

Seen a significant spike in fires on FIRMs and the Russians are stalled.

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## nangyale

Informative video.
Based mostly on western sources. 


https://sp.rmbl.ws/s8/2/C/r/n/z/Crnze.caa.mp4?u=0&b=0


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535282423512145920




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535163001065590786


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> The Ukrainians have pushed a lot more heavy artillery to the Donbass front in the last week.
> 
> Seen a significant spike in fires on FIRMs and the Russians are stalled.



The only thing Ukrainians good at is shelling civilians with artillery. You can be sure all their artillery supplied by the West will be smashed in Donbas.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535173884588306432


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535245958577065984
> More French artillery on the way





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535250086799851528

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Western elites are financially suffocating any journalist who don't toe the line with their mainstream propaganda campaign in Ukraine. The below 2 guys have their PayPal and Venmo accounts suspended simply because they chose telling the truth over repeating propaganda in the current war in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535069294756630528
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534973546753052676


And in russia these guys would get 15 years. In china they would dissapear to be reeducated.

In war these traitor propagandists should not be given completely free reign.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535289068564754435


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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Most worrying development is that Russian artillery is getting better.
> 
> They stopped losing it to counterfire, and on overall their targeting, and coordination gets better.


This is bound to happen.

Both side now uses scoop and shoot tactics. I mean it would be kind of dumb to keep losing your stuff 100 days into the war. That's why it make the Western MLRS more of a priority, it give you the range so you can touch them but they can't touch you.

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## Soldier35

The destruction of the Ukrainian UAV A1-SM "Fury" by the Russian air defense system 9K35 "Strela-10" was caught on video. The Strela-10 air defense system was put into service in 1976, after which it was repeatedly upgraded. The ammunition of the installation is 8 missiles, 4 on rails and 4 in the hull. The firing range of the air defense system is 5 km, the height of the target is 4 km. The advantages of the Strela-10 air defense system are its low cost, immunity to radio interference and invulnerability to anti-radar missiles. Disadvantages - the impossibility of firing at targets in bad weather conditions and sensitivity to optical interference. UAV A1-SM "Fury" of Ukraine is a drone designed for aerial reconnaissance day and night. The range of the UAV is up to 50 km, the maximum speed is 130 km / h, the time spent in the air is up to 3 hours, the height of use is a maximum of 2.5 km. The cost of the complex is 85 thousand dollars.






The Russian armored train "Brave" appeared in Ukraine. There are no exact characteristics of the Russian armored train yet. Russian BMP-2 and other weapons are installed on the armored train






The Ukrainian small anti-submarine ship "Vinnitsa", of the Soviet project 1124P, corvette according to NATO classification, was sunk in the port of Ochakov. On the video from the drone, the tail number U206 is clearly visible. It is not completely clear why the ship sank, whether it was the blows of the Russian army or Ukraine itself flooded it. The medium landing ship of Ukraine "Yury Olefirenko", of the Soviet project 773, came under fire from the Russian military, you can see it in the video, whether it sank or not is still unknown.

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## Iron Shrappenel

Viet said:


> Instead of taking back here a there, about to invent or he can do something against global warming?


Global warming suits Russia... Will open up more habitable land in Siberia etc

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> This is bound to happen.
> 
> Both side now uses scoop and shoot tactics. I mean it would be kind of dumb to keep losing your stuff 100 days into the war. That's why it make the Western MLRS more of a priority, it give you the range so you can touch them but they can't touch you.



Ukrainian army artillery are in a knot. They have nowhere to hide nowhere to run from Su-57 attack jets. They don't even know what hit them. Their days of terrorizing Donbas children is numbered. Kh-59MK2 stand off missiles is a biotch.






For reference:

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Iron Shrappenel said:


> Global warming suits Russia... Will open up more habitable land in Siberia etc



Yes. Russia can support 1 billion people with global warming making more agricultural land.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535305637416026114

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535229789711343617

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535166954461442048

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## Viet

Iron Shrappenel said:


> Global warming suits Russia... Will open up more habitable land in Siberia etc


That will not help. This war costs Russia one billion USD per day. Imagine how many washing machines, shoes, TVs he can buy. Vast parts of Russia are no man lands. Russians leave the country en masse, they even flee to Georgia.

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## K_Bin_W

UKr casualties, the actual could be higher.







Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535229789711343617


hehe Time for UK to send its SAS

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## Iron Shrappenel

Viet said:


> That will not help. This war costs Russia one billion USD per day. Imagine how many washing machines, shoes, TVs he can buy. Vast parts of Russia are no man lands. Russians leave the country en masse, they even flee to Georgia.


What did i answer to and what are u on about... Russia can buy all the washing machines it wants after it secures it's borders with hostile states that threaten to pursue a nuclear arsenal.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> That will not help. This war costs Russia one billion USD per day. Imagine how many washing machines, shoes, TVs he can buy. Vast parts of Russia are no man lands. Russians leave the country en masse, they even flee to Georgia.


Why you bother to reply with this comment anyway? When the man did not know whatever melt in Siberia would ended up flooding more Russian arable land to begin with, making it a moot point.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

The town Dolomitne was liberated today!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535321620151140354

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## Iron Shrappenel

jhungary said:


> Why you bother to reply with this comment anyway? When the man did not know whatever melt in Siberia would ended up flooding more Russian arable land to begin with, making it a moot point.


Holy smokes Field Martial, Senior Partner Deloitte, Doctorate in Environmental sciences @jhungary has spoken !!! 
Global Warming will make Siberian Ice melt so fast that all the water will retain in the ground !!!
It will not flow into springs, rivers, lakes and estuaries....
And Russians are such fools that they can't recover marshlands that Greeks learned to recover almost 2000 years ago...
Ffs man, talk about what you know. I don't object to the knowledge you have. But you have tendency to nose around in things you have zero to no information about.

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## jhungary

Iron Shrappenel said:


> Holy smokes Field Martial, Senior Partner Deloitte, Doctorate in Environmental sciences @jhungary has spoken !!!
> Global Warming will make Siberian Ice melt so fast that all the water will retain in the ground !!!
> It will not flow into springs, rivers, lakes and estuaries....
> And Russians are such fools that they can't recover marshlands that Greeks learned to recover almost 2000 years ago...
> Ffs man, talk about what you know. I don't object to the knowledge you have. But you have tendency to nose around in things you have zero to no information about.


Well, not being a geologist or a Doctor in Environmental Science, but I can tell you there are no way whatever melting in Siberia that Russia can contain or retain on the ground, in case you are wondering, there are 6.5 million square kilometre of ice in Siberia, even if half of those melt, you are talking about the 6 times the water volume of Black Sea (Which is about 550,000 sq km of water body) or 30 times the entire landmass of Greece (not just the marshland you are yapping about) . Good luck retaining that amount of water that on the ground.

By the way, it spell field "MARSHAL(L)" not Martial. Talk about nosing around in things you have zero information about.









Field marshal - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## nang2

jhungary said:


> Well, not being a geologist or a Doctor in Environmental Science, but I can tell you there are no way whatever melting in Siberia that Russia can contain or retain on the ground, in case you are wondering, there are 6.5 million square kilometre of ice in Siberia, even if half of those melt, you are talking about the 6 times the water volume of Black Sea (Which is about 550,000 sq km of water body) or 30 times the entire landmass of Greece (not just the marshland you are yapping about) . Good luck retaining that amount of water that on the ground.
> 
> By the way, it spell field "MARSHAL(L)" not Martial. Talk about nosing around in things you have zero information about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Field marshal - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


Why do you want to retain that amount of water on the ground?

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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> Why do you want to retain that amount of water on the ground?


Ask the guy I reply to.


----------



## nang2

jhungary said:


> Ask the guy I reply to.


I think he was sarcastic. He thinks the melted water will naturally flow out of the land through rivers, etc. What is left on the marshland can be drained as humans have done for thousands of years.

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## Nuclear Clown

TNT said:


> What a barbaric and backward society. Shows u ppl are no better than taliban or IRGC or even animals.


Russia takes direct inspiration from ISIS...
Vladolf Bakr al-Putlerki!


Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535282423512145920


I think the trap is closing! This is what happens when conservative generals are leading: they run straight into old poacher tricks


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535245958577065984
> More French artillery on the way


It's gonna hurt so good! I hope they receive the BONUS shell with : you get twice more fun from it! 


Tai Hai Chen said:


> Su-57 smash French artillery in Donbas.



Which French artillery? All that you see is Kh-59 crashing in the middle of an empty field then maybe hitting a mirador!!! 
You replaced Copium by Corium or what? 
Only 4 Felons in service and it's not without reason India pulled out of the program: the NATO designation is perfect : the Su-57 is a scam
Other scams were the Il-214 (renamed Il-276) and the MiG-29K, even the Su-30MKI is a maintenance disaster. 

I'd rather buy a Shenyang FC-31 or a JF-17 with neither engines nor radar nor IRST and request Dassault to make a good aircraft from it rather than getting the Su-57 or any Sukhoi for free. When IAF says it sucks, you can believe them : When you are able to shoot down a F-16 with a MiG-21, you mean business...



northeast said:


> No, I just think the peace blahblah said by an israeli is not so persuative and a little hypocritical. Maybe you should try not to take the land from palestinian and stop killing palestinian firstly.


When Palestinians (who can't pronounce their name because there is no "P" in Arabic, and the etymology is the Hebrew word Paleshet which means "Invader") launch 4500 rockets against Israeli towns, for sure, IDF should bend over and let the invaders do a Shoah v.2.0...
In 1918, the census in Jewish Palestine showed only 15,000 Arabs over a population of 100k, half of these Arabs weren't even born there...





How do you get from 15000 to 7.3 millions (2.3 millions Arab Israelis and 5M Palestinian occupiers) Into a century? Not by natural growth : it'd take pigs to multiply at such a rate...
Meanwhile, tell us about the Chinese Communist Party hypocrisy at criticizing Israel while they're the biggest land thieves to the face of this planet, as well as the #1 human rights violators with records 4x worse than Hitler... 








And they want to steal even more from other countries: 




Into 20 years, the Chinese regime applies more capital punishments to its own people than the total number of Arabs Israel killed, fighting for survival, over 75 years
And this is just CCP so called "justice" using capital punishment for non blood crimes: CCP's genocides to maintain its abusive power has killed 100 millions people since 1949,and this is according to Deng Xiao Ping, the late head of Commie China! 
Considering that Jinping talks exactly like Hitler prior to WW2 and does a similar military build-up, all of PRC's neighbours should consider a NATO-like alliance and to stockpile nuclear weapons as well as other WMDs and other banned stuff.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> NATO is an American created organization. There is no NATO without America. Indeed, as America weakens, NATO will eventually be disbanded in a few decades.



And USA is a French-created organisation, just like the older UK (1066AD)
Let's consider this : 
EU's 2021 GDP, thanks to your COVID bio-weapon was "only" $17 trillion...
Most of NATO countries don't reach the 2% GDP spending they unanimously voted... 
Let's enforce a mandatory 2% spending at EU level...
Add Albania, Canada, Iceland, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Norway, Turkey, UK we have a cumulated 23.709 trillions GDP...
With $474 billions while EU alone cumulated 1.8 million militaries...
And Frankly, I'd definitively add Israel and Ukraine because they kick asses, well, it wouldn't be an issue to keep NATO afloat without the USA, we may even end with other willing to join the alliance, e.g. India, Taiwan and even opening it to all democracies
You know, with all the Yanks spend in overseas deployments and their MIC which has gone wild and overprices stuff, we can very rapidly compensate the loss of the US firepower: just dig this : a B61 gravity bomb costs $41M, a Mach3 800km range ASMPA-R stealth ALCM of 300 kilotons costs €18 millions, a Triomphant-class SSBN costs the price of an US SSN, thanks to new Siemens turbines, we can easily nuclearize the Scorpène-class SSKs and get 6 SSNs for the price of an US one... No way we'll build 800 overseas bases, so, no issue, an EU-centered NATO can absolutely do without the USA, in fact, it'd even be better if, while the Yankees may stay in, they give up the leading role to the EU : they're now needed to put up an Asian-NATO while, at European level...


----------



## jhungary

nang2 said:


> I think he was sarcastic. He thinks the melted water will naturally flow out of the land through rivers, etc. What is left on the marshland can be drained as humans have done for thousands of years.


Well, again, with 6.5 millions sq kilometers of water? It's a big ask for your river not to overflow.....

This is not damming the area and allow the overflow to drench, you are talking about melting of the water amount to 12 Black Seas and flushing down Siberia into Russia. That's a bit different don't you think?


----------



## nang2

jhungary said:


> Well, again, with 6.5 millions sq kilometers of water? It's a big ask for your river not to overflow.....
> 
> This is not damming the area and allow the overflow to drench, you are talking about melting of the water amount to 12 Black Seas and flushing down Siberia into Russia. That's a bit different don't you think?


Depending on how fast it may melt, there could be flood, soil erosion, etc, etc. But it also marks the beginning of more vibrant life than permafrost. Russian people can later exploit it, like Canadians have been doing. And looking at how fast greenland ice has been melting, I wouldn't be worried about Siberia.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

jhungary said:


> Well, not being a geologist or a Doctor in Environmental Science, but I can tell you there are no way whatever melting in Siberia that Russia can contain or retain on the ground, in case you are wondering, there are 6.5 million square kilometre of ice in Siberia, even if half of those melt, you are talking about the 6 times the water volume of Black Sea (Which is about 550,000 sq km of water body) or 30 times the entire landmass of Greece (not just the marshland you are yapping about) . Good luck retaining that amount of water that on the ground.
> 
> By the way, it spell field "MARSHAL(L)" not Martial. Talk about nosing around in things you have zero information about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Field marshal - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org




When glaciers melt, it is not only Russia that will bear the consequences. All of humanity will do. During the ice age, it was a period of regression, meaning all of the water receded from the current continents we (humans) settle today. However, today, we're in a transgression period, meaning glaciers are slowly melting. 

What I don't understand is why would you highlight Russia when water from any glacier melting will be felt in all of the major oceans, which will in turn flood all continents and countries equally?

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## jhungary

nang2 said:


> Depending on how fast it may melt, there could be flood, soil erosion, etc, etc. But it also marks the beginning of more vibrant life than permafrost. Russian people can later exploit it, like Canadians have been doing. And looking at how fast greenland ice has been melting, I wouldn't be worried about Siberia.


Well, depends on how you interpret the data.

Raw data is as follow.

Greenland have around 1.5 million Sq Km ice, losing about 0.6 quadrillion gallon of water between 2010-2018

NOAA estimate water level rise for the US will be between 10-12inch (A foot) in the next 30 years. Which will lead o 10 times more flooding than the last 100 years.









2022 Sea Level Rise Technical Report


This Sea Level Rise Technical Report provides the most up-to-date sea level rise projections available for all U.S. states and territories; decision makers will look to it for information. This multi-agency effort, representing the first update since 2017, offers projections out to the year 2150...



oceanservice.noaa.gov





But then maybe we should go back to Russian-Ukrainian War.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> When glaciers melt, it is not only Russia that will bear the consequences. All of humanity will do. During the ice age, it was a period of regression, meaning all of the water receded from the current continents we (humans) settle today. However, today, we're in a transgression period, meaning glaciers are slowly melting.
> 
> What I don't understand is why would you highlight Russia when water from any glacier melting will be felt in all of the major oceans, which will in turn flood all continents and countries equally?


That's because some Dumbass didn't take Global Warming seriously.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535324032643760129

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535316482783051779

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535316486650269696

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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> It is global decision and not something specific to Russia. In today's global war campaign, it seems to be a slogan waged by those who want to use WTO as vehicle to control how countries develop their natural resources. This is why you see resistance from many countries.


Again, talk to that idiot who I replied to and say "It's great to have the ice melted in Siberia, more land for farming".


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535325898517397506

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

Raffie said:


> Russia takes direct inspiration from ISIS...
> Vladolf Bakr al-Putlerki!
> 
> I think the trap is closing! This is what happens when conservative generals are leading: they run straight into old poacher tricks
> 
> It's gonna hurt so good! I hope they receive the BONUS shell with : you get twice more fun from it!
> 
> 
> Which French artillery? All that you see is Kh-59 crashing in the middle of an empty field then maybe hitting a mirador!!!
> You replaced Copium by Corium or what?
> Only 4 Felons in service and it's not without reason India pulled out of the program: the NATO designation is perfect : the Su-57 is a scam
> Other scams were the Il-214 (renamed Il-276) and the MiG-29K, even the Su-30MKI is a maintenance disaster.
> 
> I'd rather buy a Shenyang FC-31 or a JF-17 with neither engines nor radar nor IRST and request Dassault to make a good aircraft from it rather than getting the Su-57 or any Sukhoi for free. When IAF says it sucks, you can believe them : When you are able to shoot down a F-16 with a MiG-21, you mean business...
> 
> 
> When Palestinians (who can't pronounce their name because there is no "P" in Arabic, and the etymology is the Hebrew word Paleshet which means "Invader") launch 4500 rockets against Israeli towns, for sure, IDF should bend over and let the invaders do a Shoah v.2.0...
> In 1918, the census in Jewish Palestine showed only 15,000 Arabs over a population of 100k, half of these Arabs weren't even born there...
> View attachment 852992
> 
> How do you get from 15000 to 7.3 millions (2.3 millions Arab Israelis and 5M Palestinian occupiers) Into a century? Not by natural growth : it'd take pigs to multiply at such a rate...
> Meanwhile, tell us about the Chinese Communist Party hypocrisy at criticizing Israel while they're the biggest land thieves to the face of this planet, as well as the #1 human rights violators with records 4x worse than Hitler...
> View attachment 852993
> 
> View attachment 852994
> 
> And they want to steal even more from other countries:
> View attachment 852995
> 
> Into 20 years, the Chinese regime applies more capital punishments to its own people than the total number of Arabs Israel killed, fighting for survival, over 75 years
> And this is just CCP so called "justice" using capital punishment for non blood crimes: CCP's genocides to maintain its abusive power has killed 100 millions people since 1949,and this is according to Deng Xiao Ping, the late head of Commie China!
> Considering that Jinping talks exactly like Hitler prior to WW2 and does a similar military build-up, all of PRC's neighbours should consider a NATO-like alliance and to stockpile nuclear weapons as well as other WMDs and other banned stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> And USA is a French-created organisation, just like the older UK (1066AD)
> Let's consider this :
> EU's 2021 GDP, thanks to your COVID bio-weapon was "only" $17 trillion...
> Most of NATO countries don't reach the 2% GDP spending they unanimously voted...
> Let's enforce a mandatory 2% spending at EU level...
> Add Albania, Canada, Iceland, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Norway, Turkey, UK we have a cumulated 23.709 trillions GDP...
> With $474 billions while EU alone cumulated 1.8 million militaries...
> And Frankly, I'd definitively add Israel and Ukraine because they kick asses, well, it wouldn't be an issue to keep NATO afloat without the USA, we may even end with other willing to join the alliance, e.g. India, Taiwan and even opening it to all democracies
> You know, with all the Yanks spend in overseas deployments and their MIC which has gone wild and overprices stuff, we can very rapidly compensate the loss of the US firepower: just dig this : a B61 gravity bomb costs $41M, a Mach3 800km range ASMPA-R stealth ALCM of 300 kilotons costs €18 millions, a Triomphant-class SSBN costs the price of an US SSN, thanks to new Siemens turbines, we can easily nuclearize the Scorpène-class SSKs and get 6 SSNs for the price of an US one... No way we'll build 800 overseas bases, so, no issue, an EU-centered NATO can absolutely do without the USA, in fact, it'd even be better if, while the Yankees may stay in, they give up the leading role to the EU : they're now needed to put up an Asian-NATO while, at European level...
> View attachment 853025



Hasbara gone wrong.....

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## Nuclear Clown

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535173884588306432
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535250086799851528


They won't like getting the BONUS... 1 shell => two tanks blown from 55km (or maybe more: usually, the range of the French stuff is much larger than made public... e.g. SCALP-EG in French senate public hearings : "in excess of 200km"... Brit pilot asked about its real range by a journo : "560km!"😍)
What I like the most with the CAESAR : 1m accuracy with unguided shells... The Russian GLONASS guided Krasnopol 152mm shell is at $52k on Rosoboronexport catalogue. The US Excalibur GPS guided shell is at $76k, and they're not as accurate! When you need guidance with the CAESAR shells, it's to go after moving targets, and you bust two at once... The self propelled CAESAR sells at about the same price as the towed M777 so you can shoot'n'scoot...
Isn't French artillery nice? We make Orcs" death cheaper and easier!

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535312972259725312

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> Well, depends on how you interpret the data.
> 
> Raw data is as follow.
> 
> Greenland have around 1.5 million Sq Km ice, losing about 0.6 quadrillion gallon of water between 2010-2018
> 
> NOAA estimate water level rise for the US will be between 10-12inch (A foot) in the next 30 years. Which will lead o 10 times more flooding than the last 100 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2022 Sea Level Rise Technical Report
> 
> 
> This Sea Level Rise Technical Report provides the most up-to-date sea level rise projections available for all U.S. states and territories; decision makers will look to it for information. This multi-agency effort, representing the first update since 2017, offers projections out to the year 2150...
> 
> 
> 
> oceanservice.noaa.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But then maybe we should go back to Russian-Ukrainian War.
> 
> 
> That's because some Dumbass didn't take Global Warming seriously.


I don't take long term predictions seriously. Human intelligence isn't very great in understanding complex systems, which include weather system, ecosystem, economy, human body, etc, etc. Scientists don't want to admit that. It is their bread and butter to make predictions, the longer the better. But they never take the responsibility of their predictions and the longer the prediction, the easier to get away with it (many of them would be dead then).

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535339116656832515

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535322132137263113

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535357451733716993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535259268533956609

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Raffie said:


> They won't like getting the BONUS... 1 shell => two tanks blown from 55km (or maybe more: usually, the range of the French stuff is much larger than made public... e.g. SCALP-EG in French senate public hearings : "in excess of 200km"... Brit pilot asked about its real range by a journo : "560km!"😍)
> What I like the most with the CAESAR : 1m accuracy with unguided shells... The Russian GLONASS guided Krasnopol 152mm shell is at $52k on Rosoboronexport catalogue. The US Excalibur GPS guided shell is at $76k, and they're not as accurate! When you need guidance with the CAESAR shells, it's to go after moving targets, and you bust two at once... The self propelled CAESAR sells at about the same price as the towed M777 so you can shoot'n'scoot...
> Isn't French artillery nice? We make Orcs" death cheaper and easier!



Your "French" CAESAR won't get the chance to be fired at the Russian and pro-Russian liberators; it'll be taken out. And the long hasbara paragraphs you post here won't make a difference. Nobody reads them any way.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Raffie said:


> They won't like getting the BONUS... 1 shell => two tanks blown from 55km (or maybe more: usually, the range of the French stuff is much larger than made public... e.g. SCALP-EG in French senate public hearings : "in excess of 200km"... Brit pilot asked about its real range by a journo : "560km!"😍)
> What I like the most with the CAESAR : 1m accuracy with unguided shells... The Russian GLONASS guided Krasnopol 152mm shell is at $52k on Rosoboronexport catalogue. The US Excalibur GPS guided shell is at $76k, and they're not as accurate! When you need guidance with the CAESAR shells, it's to go after moving targets, and you bust two at once... The self propelled CAESAR sells at about the same price as the towed M777 so you can shoot'n'scoot...
> Isn't French artillery nice? We make Orcs" death cheaper and easier!



Artillery is not god of war anymore. These days air power rule. Havoc and Alligator artillery smashing helicopters smash French artillery.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534670971403128833

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## The SC

Ukraine: *Russian forces launch an attack on Severdonetsk to take full control of it*
@AlArabiya_Brk

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## Nuclear Clown

Iron Shrappenel said:


> Global warming suits Russia... Will open up more habitable land in Siberia etc


Won't profit Rashists : 





PRC illegitimate land claims :




PRC 1936 : 




Anti-imperialist forces are needed !!!


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535359873977819136


----------



## nang2

The SC said:


> Ukraine: *Russian forces launch an attack on Severdonetsk to take full control of it*
> @AlArabiya_Brk


Isn't that what Russian forces have been doing? Did they take a break that I didn't know of?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535215746510471169

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Su-25 artillery smashing jets smash Ukrainian army artillery that terrorize Donbas children


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535338288629919745

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## MeFishToo

nang2 said:


> Isn't that what Russian forces have been doing? Did they take a break that I didn't know of?


According to the great chechen leader, and his cheerleaders, Severodonetsk was captured by the russian invaders like 2 weeks ago. Guess he gets his information from twitter.


----------



## nang2

MeFishToo said:


> According to the great chechen leader, and his cheerleaders, Severodonetsk was captured by the russian invaders like 2 weeks ago. Guess he gets his information from twitter.


I guess he is your source of information then.


----------



## MeFishToo

nang2 said:


> I guess he is your source of information then.


Definitely not. I wouldnt trust anything comming from Kadyrov or Putin. Theyre basically running countries like a criminal organization. Anyone cheering for them should honestly be deported from the west.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Definitely not. I wouldnt trust anything comming from Kadyrov or Putin. Theyre basically running countries like a criminal organization. Anyone cheering for them should honestly be deported from the west.



The sun sets on the West. The sun rises in China and Russia. This is China and Russia's century. China and Russia are the most populous countries in Asia and Europe respectively. It is China and Russia's right to dominate the world considering they dominate the Old World, the center of the world. The West is decaying.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535250099902857217


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535369864612925440

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> The sun sets on the West. The sun rises in China and Russia. This is China and Russia's century. China and Russia are the most populous countries in Asia and Europe respectively. It is China and Russia's right to dominate the world considering they dominate the Old World, the center of the world. The West is decaying.


So hows Canada?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535338689773162496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535340172476293120


MeFishToo said:


> So hows Canada?



I consider myself Chinese because I was born in China.

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535338689773162496
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535340172476293120
> 
> 
> I consider myself Chinese because I was born in China. My parents immigrated to Canada and brought me to Canada.


What prevents you from immigrating to China?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> What prevents you from immigrating to China?



Canada is multicultural country. I come to Canada to make Canada more multicultural. Canadians are laid back, lazy, stupid compared to Chinese. Life is easy in Canada. If you are weak, physically or mentally handicapped, stupid, the liberal country cares for you. China is fascist country. Military parades and all that. Only the intelligent and the strong can make it in China. I am physically weak, mentally weak. I live in Canada.

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Canada is multicultural country. I come to Canada to make Canada more multicultural.


Sure. Lets be honest. Your parents immigrated to give themself and their children a better future. You just turned out a patriot of a country you probably dont even know, for some strange reason.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Sure. Lets be honest. Your parents immigrated to give themself and their children a better future. You just turned out a patriot of a country you probably dont even know, for some strange reason.



I lived in China until age 7. Canadians are laid back, lazy, stupid compared to Chinese. Life is easy in Canada. If you are weak, physically or mentally handicapped, stupid, the liberal country cares for you. China is fascist country. Military parades and all that. Only the intelligent and the strong can make it in China. I am physically weak, mentally weak. I live in Canada.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535282244478242819


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535282244478242819



Man. That's a fat target for Su-57.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535208927100559361

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535186490522849289

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535367851728842753

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## The SC

Trembita !!!

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535186379373744129

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535208276148862977

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535232543313825792

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> Trembita !!!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535186379373744129



What on earth is that?


----------



## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Man. That's a fat target for Su-57.


There is zero chance Russia is deploying one of the few Su-57 above Ukraine. How do you even know what kind of missile this is? You just dont care, do you?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> There is zero chance Russia is deploying one of the few Su-57 above Ukraine. How do you even know what kind of missile this is? You just dont care, do you?



Su-57 is armed with Kh-59MK2 stand off missiles. Range nearly 300 km. Out of reach of Ukrainian air defense, which only has a few MANPADS left since S-300 and Buk were all blown up.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535039394918301702
Russia has warned the West that cyber-attacks on its infrastructure significantly increase the risk of a direct military clash with unpredictable consequences.

The Russian Foreign Ministry said that state institutions in Russia are being subjected to cyber attacks, and blamed people in the United States and Ukraine.
@CNBCArabia

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535309943385071616

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## The SC

Russian MSTA-S guns destroy vehicles of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535212747499229185

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535012176498417686

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Su-57 is armed with Kh-59MK2 stand off missiles. Range nearly 300 km. Out of reach of Ukrainian air defense, which only has a few MANPADS left since S-300 and Buk were all blown up.


Whats wrong with all the other missiles in Russias inventory, since they need to use Su-57 as a platform striking Ukraine now? They are not using the Su-57 because they hardly have any, and theyre not going to risk the embarrassment it would be loosing one.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535277515744354305

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535271591017431041

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535272215540862982

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## Iron Shrappenel

jhungary said:


> Again, talk to that idiot who I replied to and say "It's great to have the ice melted in Siberia, more land for farming".


Holy shit you take things out of context 


jhungary said:


> Well, not being a geologist or a Doctor in Environmental Science, but I can tell you there are no way whatever melting in Siberia that Russia can contain or retain on the ground, in case you are wondering, there are 6.5 million square kilometre of ice in Siberia, even if half of those melt, you are talking about the 6 times the water volume of Black Sea (Which is about 550,000 sq km of water body) or 30 times the entire landmass of Greece (not just the marshland you are yapping about) . Good luck retaining that amount of water that on the ground.
> 
> By the way, it spell field "MARSHAL(L)" not Martial. Talk about nosing around in things you have zero information about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Field marshal - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


This is the result of all that googling ?
A pick at a spelling mistake while making a grammatical mistake in making that point.... Nice.
Where do rivers end up ?
Do you know the meaning of an Estuary?
How are lakes filled ?
Rise in sea levels at the behest of open sea lanes for Russia ?
Is Siberia all plain land ? No.
So will all this area be swamp or Marshlands. No.
Do you know how they clear marshlands for agriculture ?
They dig waterways... Specifically earth lined canals in which water generally seeps into. These can further feed concrete canals which can transfer water to European parts of Russia,
Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and other countries for agriculture purposes. As more arable land would be required in central asian countries to compensate for the depleting crop production in Southern countries... 
Before calling me an idiot stop considering Siberia a plate of leftover mashed potatoes you just microwaved.
The permafrost will gradually melt and Russia of all countries facing climate change would have the most time to fight it.
Did you just compare the water held by a water body i.e black sea to Siberia ? 
How can you consider 
Stop thinking of Siberia as a huge icicle
that will melt and turn to mush.
Global Warming is a pressing matter no doubt. 
Seal levels will be the least of the World's concerns...
Droughts and Extreme temperatures will be a more pressing matter. With countries in the southern hemisphere facing the toughest times including mine.

Your knowledge doesn't take into consideration the the geography of Siberia at all.
Even in one of the coldest areas of Siberia such as Yakutia. The thawing of the permafrost has resulted in opening up of ground water reserves and pastures.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535354367167152128

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535277515744354305
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535271591017431041
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535272215540862982


Russian propagandists trying to define the rules while none apply to Russia. 
Its all over. The western world is done hoping for Russia becomming a trusted civilized nation under Putin. Europe is going to distance itself from Russia for decades no matter how many times Putin and his gang is going to remind us how dangerous they think they are.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Whats wrong with all the other missiles in Russias inventory, since they need to use Su-57 as a platform striking Ukraine now? They are not using the Su-57 because they hardly have any, and theyre not going to risk the embarrassment it would be loosing one.



France deployed 4 Rafale in 2011 to topple Gaddafi. Russia has 5 Su-57 operational. It's a small number but sufficient to smash Ukraine's one and only Harpoon truck. Modern war is low intensity war. Ukraine only has low dozens artillery in total. 5 Su-57 is sufficient in quantity to smash all of them within days. Su-57 uses Kh-59MK2 long range stand off fire and forget missiles. No Ukrainian air defence has the range to danger Su-57 from hundreds of kilometers away.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535353607666774017

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535353383032344578

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535185835821244418

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535030210395099148

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535220441173921797

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535213037464047616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535389122696826882

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535369864612925440

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535393117565816836


----------



## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> France deployed 4 Rafale in 2011 to topple Gaddafi. Russia has 5 Su-57 operational. It's a small number but sufficient to smash Ukraine's one and only Harpoon truck. Modern war is low intensity war. Ukraine only has low dozens artillery in total. 5 Su-57 is sufficient in quantity to smash all of them within days. Su-57 uses Kh-59MK2 long range stand off fire and forget missiles. No Ukrainian air defence has the range to danger Su-57 from hundreds of kilometers away.


Good luck hitting a truck from hundreds of km away. You are just high on russian propaganda and twitter bravado. Russia needed weeks to destroy the Pidyomnyy Mist bridge, a stationary target, and you belive they can hit a mobile target the size of a truck from hundreds of km away..
By the way, its more than one truck in a harpoon coastal defence system.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Good luck hitting a truck from hundreds of km away. You are just high on russian propaganda and twitter bravado. Russia needed weeks to destroy the Pidyomnyy Mist bridge, a stationary target, and you belive they can hit a mobile target the size of a truck from hundreds of km away..
> By the way, its more than one truck in a harpoon coastal defence system.



It's TV guided. Range does not affects its accuracy. In any event, Su-57 has very low radar signature, and flying low over ocean from Sevastopol towards Odessa makes it very difficult to detect.


----------



## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> It's TV guided. Range does not affects its accuracy. In any event, Su-57 has very low radar signature, and flying low over ocean from Sevastopol towards Odessa makes it very difficult to detect.


Sure. They just fire this thing from hundreds of km away at a target with an unknown position and let it hover above Odessa until a Harpoon truck accidently drives under this TV guided wonder weapon.
No wonder Russia is destined to rule the world.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Sure. They just fire this thing from hundreds of km away at a target with an unknown position and let it hover above Odessa until a Harpoon truck accidently drives under this TV guided wonder weapon.
> No wonder Russia is destined to rule the world.



Harpoon truck is high priority target. They are willing to dedicate several Su-57 shooting dozens of Kh-59MK2 to smash it. What Ukraine needs is Orion maritime patrol plane to carry Harpoon to within range of Russian warships at Novorossiysk where they shoot Kalibr cruise missiles outside the range of Harpoon.

Also, Russia has recon satellites that has 24 7 space based recon over Odessa. If the truck makes it to shore it will be spotted by satellite and coordinates passed to Su-57 for smashing.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535349525367373826

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535340172476293120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535338288629919745

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535304621039681537

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535011687899750434


----------



## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Harpoon truck is high priority target. They are willing to dedicate several Su-57 shooting dozens of Kh-59MK2 to smash it. What Ukraine needs is Orion maritime patrol plane to carry Harpoon to within range of Russian warships at Novorossiysk where they shoot Kalibr cruise missiles outside the range of Harpoon.
> 
> Also, Russia has recon satellites that has 24 7 space based recon over Odessa. If the truck makes it to shore it will be spotted by satellite and coordinates passed to Su-57 for smashing.


What makes you think the Harpoon system is even near the shore or Odessa? Russia doesnt know, but they cant afford to take the chance, so they move the ships out of reach of the harpoon system - and the donation of a few harpoon trucks did the trick.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russian artillery hammering Ukrainian artillery that terrorize Donbas children.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535328927710949378


MeFishToo said:


> What makes you think the Harpoon system is even near the shore or Odessa? Russia doesnt know, but they cant afford to take the chance, so they move the ships out of reach of the harpoon system - and the donation of a few harpoon trucks did the trick.



Russian recon satellites at low earth orbit sees everything in Odessa 24 7 365.

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535349525367373826



They are now barbecue boys

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535347517642129411
Ukrainian military pushed Russian troops 5-7 kms further from Zaporizhzhia - Melitopol Mayor Fedorov​

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## 925boy

Viet said:


> Zelinskki says Ukraine army loss is about 100 men per day. Putin suffers similar casualty rate.


No Putin doesnt -even western sources in US are saying now that Russian losses have reduced to a minimum. stop lying.


Viet said:


> Considering that’s not a full scale war yet that may come next in few months, then casual rate is very low.


full scale war with who? US and NATO are too tired, demotivated, and divided to fight now - they dont even have ammunition anymore to go and fight. tehy will die in Ukraine like rats , like the Ukrainian soldiers now are dying (but def not at as horrible a rate)

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535263673417179142

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535256470811451392


----------



## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russian artillery hammering Ukrainian artillery that terrorize Donbas children.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535328927710949378
> 
> 
> Russian recon satellites at low earth orbit sees everything in Odessa 24 7 365.


Russia has less than 20 remote sensing satelites, two of them are optical recon satelites with a resolution of 0,5 m per pixel. I doubt any of them are dedicated to observe Odessa, let alone single out a specific truck.

Did you ever wonder why Russia doesnt provide satelite images when trying to prove something?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Russia has less than 20 remote sensing satelites, two of them are optical recon satelites with a resolution of 0,5 m per pixel. I doubt any of them are dedicated to observe Odessa, let alone single out a specific truck.
> 
> Did you ever wonder why Russia doesnt provide satelite images when trying to prove something?



We warned the Kiev regime to stop shelling Donbas children. They did not heed the warning. Now they will pay with their blood.

Russia has plenty armed drones to smash that Harpoon truck if it ever shows its face.






Also, China shares recon satellite intel with Russia to hunt down people who terrorize Donbas children.

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> We warned the Kiev regime to stop shelling Donbas children. They did not heed the warning. Now they will pay with their blood.
> 
> Russia has plenty armed drones to smash that Harpoon truck if it ever shows its face.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, China shares recon satellite intel with Russia to hunt down people who terrorize Donbas children.


No disrespect, but repeating this nonsense of Ukraine shelling children in Donbas makes you look like fool.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535202370237472774

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535200690049523715

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535192191546576896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535180869798924288


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535036892147851264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535415581763153921

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535414019426861057


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535426722476306432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535427985574084610

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535412444159479809

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535412088234983425

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535410593775202304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535408388506624000

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 10​Jun 10, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF

*Karolina Hird, Kateryna Stepanenko, and Mason Clark
June 10, 4:00 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Ukrainian officials are increasing the urgency of their requests for more-sophisticated Western-provided weapons systems amid reports of growing Russian artillery superiority. *Several Western media outlets reported in the last 48 hours that Ukrainian military and government officials are increasingly highlighting the fact that Ukrainian troops are trapped in an “artillery war” on critical frontlines and are at a distinct disadvantage in terms of artillery systems.[1] Deputy Head of the Ukrainian Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) Vadym Skibitsky stated that Russian troops possess 10 to 15 artillery pieces to every one Ukrainian artillery piece and that Ukrainian forces have almost completely exhausted their artillery ammunition.[2] Considering the current prevalence of protracted positional battles, especially in the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area, Ukrainian forces urgently need fresh supplies of artillery systems. As Ukrainian forces use the last of their stocks of Soviet-era weapon systems and munitions, they will require consistent Western support to transition to new supply chains of ammunition and key artillery systems. Effective artillery will be increasingly decisive in the largely static fighting in eastern Ukraine.
*Russian military authorities continue to struggle with force generation and are facing the consequences of aggressive forced mobilization efforts. *Ukraine’s Security Service (SBU) claimed they captured a new group of Russian prisoners of war who reportedly were recruited through a private military company and told they were going to be providing security services but were instead sent to the frontline in Luhansk.[3] The Ukrainian General Staff similarly reported that units comprised of forcibly mobilized personnel are refusing to participate in combat in the Donbas due to high losses.[4] The Ukrainian Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) cited intercepted phone calls and claimed that Russian soldiers are refusing to fight and are being threatened with prosecution—despite their lack of equipment and weapons within their units.[5] Such reports are consistent with previous reports that Russian forced mobilization efforts are self-destructive and may result in mounting discontent and declining morale and discipline.[6] 
*Key Takeaways*

*Ukrainian officials are increasing the urgency of their requests for Western weapons systems due to Russia’s artillery superiority. *
*Russian forces are continuing ground assaults within Severodonetsk but have yet to secure full control of the city as of June 10.*
*Russian forces are preparing to renew offensive operations toward Slovyansk and made minor gains to the north of the city.*
*Russian forces are continuing efforts to cut the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway and conducting assaults on settlements near the highway.*
*Russian troops reportedly took control of the Kinburn Spit in the northern Black Sea, which will allow them to exert further control of the Black Sea coast.*



*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued ground assaults within Severodonetsk but have yet to establish full control over the city as of June 10. Ukrainian sources, including the Ukrainian General Staff and Head of the Luhansk Regional State Administration Serhiy Haidai, noted that Ukrainian troops still control the Azot Industrial zone and the Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway but did not provide any more details on the situation within the city.[7] Russian forces continued to heavily shell Lysychansk, Ustynivka, Toshkivka, and Zolote, likely to support operations in Severodonetsk and interdict Ukrainian supply efforts.[8] Much like the previous fighting in Mariupol, the exact nature of the control of urban areas in Severodonetsk likely remains obfuscated as the information environment surrounding hostilities becomes increasingly restricted.



Russian forces continued to prepare for offensive operations from the southeast of Izyum and west of Lyman toward Slovyansk and likely made marginal gains north of Slovyansk on June 10.[9] The Ukrainian General Staff stated that 30 Russian battalion tactical groups (BTGs) are now operating in the direction of Kharkiv Oblast, 10 more than previously reported on June 3.[10] Russian forces on this axis are continuing to prioritize efforts to link advances in southeast Kharkiv Oblast with efforts in northwestern Donetsk Oblast.[11] However, these BTGs have likely suffered heavy combat losses and may be comprised of the remnants of other units. Ukrainian reports of an additional 10 BTGs operating on this axis likely indicate that the Kremlin has reorganized its units and possibly deployed some reinforcements, but it is unlikely that Russian forces have truly increased their available combat power by 50%. Additionally, Russian attacks remain largely road-bound and confined to narrow frontages, and Russian forces will likely struggle to leverage any new weight of numbers.
A Russian Telegram channel stated that Russian forces seized Pryshyb on June 9 and are conducting ground assaults on Sydrove, two villages south of Sviatohirsk and about 20 km north of Slovyansk.[12] While ISW cannot confirm these claims, they are indicative of continued Russian efforts to push southward from Sviatohirsk and suggest that Russian forces have successfully crossed the Siverskyi Donets River in the Sviatohirsk-Tetyanivka area.[13]
Russian forces conducted ground, air, and artillery attacks to the east of Bakhmut on June 10 in a continued effort to cut the Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway. [14] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are conducting ground assaults on Nyrkove, Mykolaivka, Nahirne, and Berestove (all settlements east of Bakhmut along the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway) and that they are advancing on the Vozdvyzhenka-Roty line from the south of Bakhmut.[15]



*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
There were no significant developments in northern Kharkiv Oblast on June 10. Russian forces continued defensive operations to prevent further Ukrainian advances toward the international border and fired on Ukrainian positions in and around Kharkiv City.[16]



*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces continued to strengthen their defensive lines and conducted ground and artillery attacks along the Southern Axis on June 10.[17] The Ukrainian General Staff noted that Russian forces focused on improving the fortification of their second and third lines of defense and carried out camouflage measures to support defensive operations.[18] Russian sources notably claimed that Russian troops took control of the Kinburn Split–a small peninsula near Ochakiv in the northern Black Sea, on the southern border of Mykolaiv and Kherson oblasts.[19] Russian forces have consistently bombarded Ukrainian naval assets in Ochakiv for the last month, and if these Russian claims are true, control of the Kinburn Split will allow Russian troops to exert greater control of the northwestern Black Sea coast. Russian troops continued to fire on various locations in Mykolaiv, Dnipropetrovsk, Zaporizhia, and Kherson oblasts.[20]



*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian occupation authorities continued measures to set conditions for administrative control of occupied areas on June 10. Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported that Russian-backed political collaborators in Kherson Oblast initiated a new wave of unspecified preparations for a referendum on the annexation of occupied territories directly into Russia.[21] Russian occupation authorities are additionally exerting greater control through the education sector and Russian officials are reportedly planning to retrain teachers in the Donbas using Russian curricula.[22] Advisor to the Mayor of Mariupol Petro Andryushchenko similarly reported that occupation authorities in Mariupol have begun importing Russian textbooks into schools in the city.[23] Despite Russian efforts to consolidate control of occupied areas through educational means, occupation authorities are still largely unable to provide adequate social or medical services for residents of occupied territories, and the medical system in Mariupol is reportedly near collapse as a result of mismanagement by Russian authorities.[24]

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535119347794038784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535183631085408256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535187533126160384
*Finally, the production of the first laptop in Russia*
Bitblaze​0n a *Baikal M *CPU

*



*

The novelty received a standard 15.6-inch IPS screen with Full HD resolution of 1920 × 1080 pixels. There is 16GB of RAM and multiple storage options up to 512GB. As an operating system, buyers will be able to choose one of the domestic developments built on the basis of the Linux kernel: Alt or Astra. Declared increased security of the laptop from cyber attacks. The approximate price of the model is from 100,000 to 120,000 rubles (around $2000)..

https://www.aroged.com/2022/06/06/r...-baikal-m-is-ready-for-pre-series-production/

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## jhungary

Iron Shrappenel said:


> Holy shit you take things out of context
> 
> This is the result of all that googling ?
> A pick at a spelling mistake while making a grammatical mistake in making that point.... Nice.
> Where do rivers end up ?
> Do you know the meaning of an Estuary?
> How are lakes filled ?
> Rise in sea levels at the behest of open sea lanes for Russia ?
> Is Siberia all plain land ? No.
> So will all this area be swamp or Marshlands. No.
> Do you know how they clear marshlands for agriculture ?
> They dig waterways... Specifically earth lined canals in which water generally seeps into. These can further feed concrete canals which can transfer water to European parts of Russia,
> Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and other countries for agriculture purposes. As more arable land would be required in central asian countries to compensate for the depleting crop production in Southern countries...
> Before calling me an idiot stop considering Siberia a plate of leftover mashed potatoes you just microwaved.
> The permafrost will gradually melt and Russia of all countries facing climate change would have the most time to fight it.
> Did you just compare the water held by a water body i.e black sea to Siberia ?
> How can you consider
> Stop thinking of Siberia as a huge icicle
> that will melt and turn to mush.
> Global Warming is a pressing matter no doubt.
> Seal levels will be the least of the World's concerns...
> Droughts and Extreme temperatures will be a more pressing matter. With countries in the southern hemisphere facing the toughest times including mine.
> 
> Your knowledge doesn't take into consideration the the geography of Siberia at all.
> Even in one of the coldest areas of Siberia such as Yakutia. The thawing of the permafrost has resulted in opening up of ground water reserves and pastures.


Wow, a bunch of useless point.

At least you agree Global Warming is a pressing concern.

By the way, I don't know a lot about Geology or Environmental Science, but as a native Kansas, I pretty much knows everything about farming, my family own several farm since the beginning of last Century. I know how irrigation ditch work, and soil work and I can tell you even if you really melt our Siberia, it wouldn't be a arable a land than the flatland which is most likely going to be flooded by raising water level, due to a composition of a lot of factor. Unless by "Habitable you mean you cannot be self sufficient from the land"

And then ask yourself this. Didn't Russia, being the BIGGEST COUNTRY ON EARTH BY A MILE, have enough habitable land already?

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## The SC

Video of Russian soldiers carrying the Javelins and Western AT4s weapons that came as aid to Ukrainian forces.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535368018271690752
Shots of the aim and modification of the strikes of the Russian armed forces on the positions of the Ukrainian armed forces.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535329381677248512

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535377189390241793


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535321088137232388

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535419038783791104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535005681400553472

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534931842549354496

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535119347794038784
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535183631085408256
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535187533126160384
> *Finally, the production of the first laptop in Russia*
> Bitblaze​0n a *Baikal M *CPU
> 
> *
> View attachment 853094
> *
> 
> The novelty received a standard 15.6-inch IPS screen with Full HD resolution of 1920 × 1080 pixels. There is 16GB of RAM and multiple storage options up to 512GB. As an operating system, buyers will be able to choose one of the domestic developments built on the basis of the Linux kernel: Alt or Astra. Declared increased security of the laptop from cyber attacks. The approximate price of the model is from 100,000 to 120,000 rubles (around $2000)..
> 
> https://www.aroged.com/2022/06/06/r...-baikal-m-is-ready-for-pre-series-production/



This CPU is much faster than Intel 486 used in F-22 which was developed in the early 90s.

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## DF41

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Your "French" CAESAR won't get the chance to be fired at the Russian and pro-Russian liberators; it'll be taken out. And the long hasbara paragraphs you post here won't make a difference. Nobody reads them any way.




No point to read

Anyway, he and many of his kind where sun and moon not shine and cockroaches roamed and feast on used toilet tissues and crawling on their faces and bodies and orifices 


I think I rather go enjoy my coffee and smell roses then to see the rot only he could have dug up.
Probably with cockroaches crawling all about and in it and on it.



As said, I go enjoy my coffee and roses














and smell roses

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## DF41

Tai Hai Chen said:


> What on earth is that?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535328890020929536

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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535328927710949378 Russian artillery hammering Ukrainian artillery that terrorize Donbas children.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Why you bother to reply with this comment anyway? When the man did not know whatever melt in Siberia would ended up flooding more Russian arable land to begin with, making it a moot point.


My previous comment was meant ironic. Instead of new smartphone, new electric car, new software, or anything thing against global warning, the only goodies the Russians bring to the world is death and destruction. They spend so much money on a war to seize others people territories although they have the biggest landmass on the planet. People will keep them as thieves in memory.

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## Viet

925boy said:


> No Putin doesnt -even western sources in US are saying now that Russian losses have reduced to a minimum. stop lying.
> 
> full scale war with who? US and NATO are too tired, demotivated, and divided to fight now - they dont even have ammunition anymore to go and fight. tehy will die in Ukraine like rats , like the Ukrainian soldiers now are dying (but def not at as horrible a rate)


So you mean the casualty rate of Putin’s army is 0, they are zombies or something they can’t die? Ok maybe Ukraine should resort to thing in old third rate horror movie films.

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## Iron Shrappenel

Which countries are the world’s biggest carbon polluters? - ClimateTrade


Which countries are the world’s biggest carbon polluters?




climatetrade.com






jhungary said:


> Wow, a bunch of useless point.
> 
> At least you agree Global Warming is a pressing concern.
> 
> By the way, I don't know a lot about Geology or Environmental Science, but as a native Kansas, I pretty much knows everything about farming, my family own several farm since the beginning of last Century. I know how irrigation ditch work, and soil work and I can tell you even if you really melt our Siberia, it wouldn't be a arable a land than the flatland which is most likely going to be flooded by raising water level, due to a composition of a lot of factor. Unless by "Habitable you mean you cannot be self sufficient from the land"
> 
> And then ask yourself this. Didn't Russia, being the BIGGEST COUNTRY ON EARTH BY A MILE, have enough habitable land already?


I'm not familiar of what the land conditions are in Kansas. 
My family is also technically from a farming background.. and for more than 150 years of the history of our holdings that I know of. We have cleared these kinds of situations. 
From swampy land near the Indus in North Punjab to Canal fed acres in Northern Sindh. I can see the changes in the soil due to restless cultivation and crop cycles being destroyed due to abnormal weather... 
Siberia has 2 plateaus, technically the water will flow north or south depending upon the geography of the specific area.... This should help in the drainage.. and as we know that plateaus are *generally *flat on top.... If not all some of it can be made arable... 
Arability is one part of habitability... Habitable simply means which can be inhabited or lived in. Siberia right now has a small population due to extreme cold. Rising temperatures will open the possibility of more bearable living conditions, better year round connectivity with the rest of the country/world.
Global Warming is a fact for me. I never said that it's good or bad. I just said what might happen in Siberia. The thing with melting permafrost is that the land releases carbon with all the microbes eating the decaying stuff left in the ground all this while.... Carbon releases in atmosphere causing green house effect... Chain reaction of sorts... Some what like chlorofluorocarbons instead this is a habitat.... The thawing of the Siberian seems to me like irreversible. Keeping that in mind I'd rather see what I can use the new holdings for rather than worry about the floodings that are going to happen somewhere else....
Why would I be concerned about how Russia uses the land and why is it important to maximize arability in russia and close countries ?
Situation in Southern Hemisphere countries getting worse day by day wrt water droughts and soil degradation. We need more arable land in the North.

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## SalarHaqq

jamahir said:


> French Nazi supporting UkroNazis against the Russians who removed the sword of Nazism from the heads of the French 80 years ago.



Yup, an islamophobic zio-Nazi to be precise. Elsewhere on the internet, that same user was publishing elaborate and violent Muslim-demonizing rants. They know they'd get permanently banned if they tried the same here.

Although they did post some material insulting towards our Prophet (s) in this very thread, which I reported. Let's see if they'll be sanctioned accordingly.

Everyone, please take a look at the following:









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Chinese Foreign Ministry: Washington's increase in cyber attacks in Ukraine to confront Russia is dangerous @AlArabiya_Brk Russian Foreign Ministry: The West does not consider a peaceful settlement a solution to the crisis in Ukraine @AlArabiya_Brk Zaporizhia separatist forces in Ukraine: We...



defence.pk





Which includes offensive material directed against Prophet Muhammad (s) - my apologies for having to reproduce this, but it's for the sake of exposing an islamophobic troll who otherwise might get away with it while others don't:






I invite everyone to report this disgusting breach of forum rules.

Also on another website, the same user was defending President Assad of Syria tooth and nail, whereas here they'll call him "genocidal".

Just an agitator on a disinformation and psy-ops mission. Failed mission I should add, since as you can see not even NATO supporters are taking them seriously.

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## Nuclear Clown

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Artillery is not god of war anymore. These days air power rule. Havoc and Alligator artillery smashing helicopters smash French artillery.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534670971403128833


This is true when it comes to NATO and NATO friends... Not when it comes to Russians: just like the Soviets or the Soviet client states, they're unable to make an efficient SEAD as well as reclaiming air superiority.
There is no god of war, actually, there is no god, and from war, all you ripe is death and destruction, war's only friend is the undertaker and those starting one, I mean guys like Putin, Stalin, Milosevic, or the MoFo in Rwanda, etc, deserve to pay dearly for their deeds. I sincerely hope Putin won't end like Hitler, he deserves something long and truly painful. Polonium 210 would be too nice... Then, those who knew what was coming and could have deployed a no fly zone and sent a NATO rapid reaction force, leaving Putin no other option than giving up, should end in jail. The fact they're dragging feet at delivering the necessary weapons to terminate the invaders ASAP is a pity too: with the appropriate gear, the Orcs can be fully wiped out of Ukraine within a week.




Russia has already lost a lot of its 109 Ka-52 Alligators and more than a few of its 108 Mi-28N Havocs of the Jan 2022 inventory🤡  
Moreover, forget about newly built ones : these choppers rely on western parts, especially French electro-optics, which have been cut-off since 2014... Same for the laser targetting pod for Sukhois... Putin has just enough for his own military, just look at the delays to deliver all advanced systems, incl. S-400... 
Orc Ka-52 shot down by Ukrainian Stugna ATGM
















It's been a while since clients are losing interest into Russian military choppers:


http://www.rusaviainsider.com/insight-russian-helicopters-diversifying-military-sales-decline/




http://www.rusaviainsider.com/russian-helicopters-deliveries-slid-11-2016/


I wouldn't go for the Chinese choppers too : they're just sub-par copies of obsolete French 70's/80's Aérospatiale (now Airbus) choppers with bad engines, even if they modified the Dauphin as the Z-19 gunship... If for some reason, a country is on bad terms with EU/France, the alternative is HAL: at least, they have genuine Safran engines and they have unrestricted access to western technologies, especially electro-optics, countermeasures but the #1 point: there is no great aircraft without a great engine

At the present day, there is NO French artillery having been smashed by any of Mordor's helicopters, and considering the very long range of the French artillery and the inability of Russia at going after dynamic targets, and surely not using choppers at doing such deep penetration considering the THOUSANDS of ManPADS deployed by Ukraine, 
Moreover, you're unable to provide any video, location or numbers for the good reason you invented this bullshit...
Considering how hi-tech the gear is : a CAESAR is a kind of 55km (likely more) ranged sniper gun : 1m accuracy with unguided shells at such a distance is simply unique, there is nothing else like this, well, IMHO, all guns are not deployed, personnel is still eing trained. There is a single zone where, through recoupment, there might be 2 CAESAR guns deployed, on separate points and visibly, the effect may be devastating : gatherings or command & control busted deep behind the front on one side, Orcs repelled of 7km within a day on the other side. 
Considering the Orcs don't dare to send aircraft or choppers, it's obvious that the guns are deployed together with NASAMS, Mistral ManPADS which are networked with the AWACS loitering over NATO protected zone, so even low altitude targets aren't missed, the area being into a larger circle with S-300 covering high altitude... And my little finger tells me that Ukraine has some radars that make Su-57's stealth useless...


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## nangyale

jhungary said:


> By the way, I don't know a lot about Geology or Environmental Science, but as a native Kansas, I pretty much knows everything about farming, my family own several farm since the beginning of last Century. I know how irrigation ditch work, and soil work and I can tell you even if you really melt our Siberia, it wouldn't be a arable a land than the flatland which is most likely going to be flooded by raising water level, due to a composition of a lot of factor. Unless by "Habitable you mean you cannot be self sufficient from the land"
> 
> And then ask yourself this. Didn't Russia, being the BIGGEST COUNTRY ON EARTH BY A MILE, have enough habitable land already?


Which side of your family is from Kansas? Your Mexican/Puerto Rican father or your Hong Kong mother. 

Dude you are all over the place 🙄

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## jhungary

nangyale said:


> Which side of your family is from Kansas? Your Mexican/Puerto Rican father or your Hong Kong mother.
> 
> Dude you are all over the place 🙄


You do know when someone is an American with "Mexican Descent" that does not mean he is born in Mexico or Puerto Rico. His family move to the US since Mexican-American war, and guess which state is above Texas (Well, above Oklahoma) they decided to settle??

Exactly what kind of stupid *** question is this?? You need to check whether your brain is still functioning, and is not fried...Cause you are asking brain dead question like a dobie head


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## Nuclear Clown

sammuel said:


> is there a reason you misquote me ?


Sorry, IDK how your name ended heading someone else's quote, and I didn't managed to get it right by editing. My apologies, Sam!

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## jamahir

SalarHaqq said:


> Everyone, please take a look at the following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> Chinese Foreign Ministry: Washington's increase in cyber attacks in Ukraine to confront Russia is dangerous @AlArabiya_Brk Russian Foreign Ministry: The West does not consider a peaceful settlement a solution to the crisis in Ukraine @AlArabiya_Brk Zaporizhia separatist forces in Ukraine: We...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk



Isn't "Slava Ukrainia" a Nazi / Right slogan of the ones who are killing, injuring and torturing Russian citizens ? Have these people no shame in shouting that out ?


----------



## jhungary

Iron Shrappenel said:


> Which countries are the world’s biggest carbon polluters? - ClimateTrade
> 
> 
> Which countries are the world’s biggest carbon polluters?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> climatetrade.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not familiar of what the land conditions are in Kansas.
> My family is also technically from a farming background.. and for more than 150 years of the history of our holdings that I know of. We have cleared these kinds of situations.
> From swampy land near the Indus in North Punjab to Canal fed acres in Northern Sindh. I can see the changes in the soil due to restless cultivation and crop cycles being destroyed due to abnormal weather...
> Siberia has 2 plateaus, technically the water will flow north or south depending upon the geography of the specific area.... This should help in the drainage.. and as we know that plateaus are *generally *flat on top.... If not all some of it can be made arable...
> Arability is one part of habitability... Habitable simply means which can be inhabited or lived in. Siberia right now has a small population due to extreme cold. Rising temperatures will open the possibility of more bearable living conditions, better year round connectivity with the rest of the country/world.
> Global Warming is a fact for me. I never said that it's good or bad. I just said what might happen in Siberia. The thing with melting permafrost is that the land releases carbon with all the microbes eating the decaying stuff left in the ground all this while.... Carbon releases in atmosphere causing green house effect... Chain reaction of sorts... Some what like chlorofluorocarbons instead this is a habitat.... The thawing of the Siberian seems to me like irreversible. Keeping that in mind I'd rather see what I can use the new holdings for rather than worry about the floodings that are going to happen somewhere else....
> Why would I be concerned about how Russia uses the land and why is it important to maximize arability in russia and close countries ?
> Situation in Southern Hemisphere countries getting worse day by day wrt water droughts and soil degradation. We need more arable land in the North.


Again, just because it is Plateaus, that does not mean it's arable. Soil Nutrient loss gradually with ground water, and if the land is on a Plateau, which mean it is on top of a mountain, which mean the soil there wouldn't hold nutrient, another issue with temperature, it will still be too cold for crop given it would have been low 50s, I mean just because the ice melt in Siberia, that does not mean it suddenly have a hot summer. It will still be cold, not just freezing cold.

Then there are also soil pH. Which is something I don't know how it goes in Siberia.

But I think we are way too off topic on this, I mean, if you want to open a thread and talk about farming, I can come by and talk about it if I have time. But I am not going to do it here.

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## Primus

Raffie said:


> . When IAF says it sucks, you can believe them : When you are able to shoot down a F-16 with a MiG-21, you mean business...
> 
> 
> When Palestinians (who can't pronounce their name because there is no "P" in Arabic, and the etymology is the Hebrew word Paleshet which means "Invader") launch 4500 rockets against Israeli towns, for sure, IDF should bend over and let the invaders do a Shoah v.2.0...
> In 1918, the census in Jewish Palestine showed only 15,000 Arabs over a population of 100k, half of these Arabs weren't even born there...
> View attachment 852992


Palestine is pronounced as Filastin in Arabic...🤡

Also F16 shot down by Mig21 😂😂😂

What a clown

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## kingQamaR

Signs of the first cracks in the Ukraine is winning narrative trumpeted by the media for so long in contrast to the facts? The NYT and Washington Post have also admitted Ukraine is not winning either as had Zelensky in a recent interview. Another few $billions plus more weapons and surely Ukraine could turn the tide even though most of their best forces have already been defeated sorry I meant to say safely 'evacuated'. Mustn't use the word defeated.

They admitted today they are losing 200 men a day. 1400 a week. 6000 a month. And five times that wounded. So say 35,000 men lost a month. So on that basis their entire army will be gone before Christmas wtf is going on

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## TNT

Raffie said:


> It's only offensive for cretin Erdogan who is an absolute munafiq and whose fanboys pretend him to be the mahdi! His dirty shenanigans to force the transit of a pipeline into Syria added to his backing of ISIS have caused the death of no less than half a million, some say 800k of his"brothers" in the Ummah...
> I'm pretty sure you're of those constantly bashing Israel, guess what?
> Erdogan did 10x worse than the Zionists in only 10 years.
> This is not about your prophet, it's all about a rascal who uses religion as a tool for his criminal acts, his dictatorship, his embezzlement of public funds and his cosying with terrorists and organized crime!!!
> Erdogan calls for boycott of French goods after Charlie Hebdo ridiculed him (and his habit of intending **** clubs) on alleged "insults to the prophet", now look at this :
> View attachment 853135
> 
> This Hermès "Birkin" handbag worth 6 months of Erdogan's salary as president of Turkey... These cartoons are no insult to your prophet, Erdogan is the insult, and considering his purchases of ISIS blood oil at $15-20 per barrel which helped funding years of rampage by these lunatics and their terror attacks at a world wide level, be aware that the #1 victims are Muslims, and if there is "islamophobia" in Dar al-Hurb, you can absolutely thank Erdogan and his associates.
> Assad is absolutely a dictator, but hey, guess what? There's a single democracy in the Middle East, all other countries are either authoritarian regimes or failed states, and the failed ones are often so, thanks to those using religion as a political tool to manipulate people into doing horrible things or for demagogy purposes...
> The day people like you will understand this and why it's necessary to keep religions out of politics, no matter which religion it is, then it'll be a great step forward for a better world.
> Only morons take Charlie Hebdo cartoons seriously, why don't you show the Macron one? It's worse than all those shown in the protests Erdogan triggered, telling lies to the public, protests which turned violent with people ending killed, thanks to Erdogan's demagogy and lies...



I knew u r a stupid brown chamcha. Shah se zyada sha ka wafadar. Its common with inferiority complex ridden brown crap who gets western nationality 😂.



Huffal said:


> Palestine is pronounced as Filastin in Arabic...🤡
> 
> Also F16 shot down by Mig21 😂😂😂
> 
> What a clown


 A brown clown and i bet this scumbag is an indian.

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## kingQamaR

jamahir said:


> Isn't "Slava Ukrainia" a Nazi / Right slogan of the ones who are killing, injuring and torturing Russian citizens ? Have these people no shame in shouting that out ?



They don’t say so in Ukraine. It is just a russian version and a troll question by the way


----------



## jamahir

kingQamaR said:


> They don’t say so in Ukraine.



Who doesn't say so ?



kingQamaR said:


> and a troll question by the way



No.


----------



## nangyale

jhungary said:


> You do know when someone is an American with "Mexican Descent" that does not mean he is born in Mexico or Puerto Rico. His family move to the US since Mexican-American war, and guess which state is above Texas (Well, above Oklahoma) they decided to settle??
> 
> Exactly what kind of stupid *** question is this?? You need to check whether your brain is still functioning, and is not fried...Cause you are asking brain dead question like a dobie head


Didn't know they teach in Spanish in Kansas schools, as that was your excuse for your poor English last time you were challenged. 

Anyways I don't want to interrupt you. 

You have quite a fantastical life story.
Also don't forget to ask your buddies to delete these comments afterwards as we don't want others to find out. Do we now?

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## nangyale

SalarHaqq said:


> Yup, an islamophobic zio-Nazi to be precise. Elsewhere on the internet, that same user was publishing elaborate and violent Muslim-demonizing rants. They know they'd get permanently banned if they tried the same here.
> 
> Although they did post some material insulting towards our Prophet (s) in this very thread, which I reported. Let's see if they'll be sanctioned accordingly.
> 
> Everyone, please take a look at the following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> Chinese Foreign Ministry: Washington's increase in cyber attacks in Ukraine to confront Russia is dangerous @AlArabiya_Brk Russian Foreign Ministry: The West does not consider a peaceful settlement a solution to the crisis in Ukraine @AlArabiya_Brk Zaporizhia separatist forces in Ukraine: We...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which includes offensive material directed against Prophet Muhammad (s) - my apologies for having to reproduce this, but it's for the sake of exposing an islamophobic troll who otherwise might get away with it while others don't:
> 
> View attachment 853132
> 
> 
> I invite everyone to report this disgusting breach of forum rules.
> 
> Also on another website, the same user was defending President Assad of Syria tooth and nail, whereas here they'll call him "genocidal".
> 
> Just an agitator on a disinformation and psy-ops mission. Failed mission I should add, since as you can see not even NATO supporters are taking them seriously.


@WebMaster @waz @Horus @PakSword 

Do you allow blasphemy on this forum?

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## waz

nangyale said:


> @WebMaster @waz @Horus @PakSword
> 
> Do you allow blasphemy on this forum?



I looked at this thread and I couldn't find the blasphemy.

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## jhungary

nangyale said:


> Didn't know they teach in Spanish in Kansas schools, as that was your excuse for your poor English last time you were challenged.
> 
> Anyways I don't want to interrupt you.
> 
> You have quite a fantastical life story.
> Also don't forget to ask your buddies to delete these comments afterwards as we don't want others to find out. Do we now?


First of all, Spanish is taught in almost ALL southern US State. Even tho Kansas is in the Mid-West, depends on where you are in Kansas, it may or may not have a Spanish CV in every level

For example.





__





21,000+ Spanish Teacher jobs in United States (46 new)


Today’s top 21,000+ Spanish Teacher jobs in United States. Leverage your professional network, and get hired. New Spanish Teacher jobs added daily.




www.linkedin.com







https://www.glassdoor.com/Job/kansas-spanish-teacher-jobs-SRCH_IL.0,6_IS3107_KO7,22.htm



Why are all these School hire Spanish teacher if it does not have a Spanish CV.

Second of all, who told you I have to be brought up in Kansas? I can be brought up just about everywhere and anywhere.

Thirdly, as I said a million times, I don't do spell or grammar check when I post here, why? Only people had shit command of English would go after other people English instead of their point to begin with. I can bet you $1000 dollars My English is better than you, if you don't believe me, I can leave you my WhatsApp and we can have a chat, but If I have to guess, you probably can only speak Call Center level English..

And finally, only idiot have no substance will challenge who that person is, instead of what he is talking about, so, are you an idiot??

P.S. I don't delete shit, don't need to when you are always telling the truth. Only sketchy a$$ people will think of deleting their convo history because there are something to hide. My Profile is open, and you can look up all my post, I dare you to find a post that I contradict myself.


----------



## Madni Bappa

jhungary said:


> First of all, Spanish is taught in almost ALL southern US State. Even tho Kansas is in the Mid-West, depends on where you are in Kansas, it may or may not have a Spanish CV in every level
> 
> For example.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 21,000+ Spanish Teacher jobs in United States (46 new)
> 
> 
> Today’s top 21,000+ Spanish Teacher jobs in United States. Leverage your professional network, and get hired. New Spanish Teacher jobs added daily.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.linkedin.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.glassdoor.com/Job/kansas-spanish-teacher-jobs-SRCH_IL.0,6_IS3107_KO7,22.htm
> 
> 
> 
> Why are all these School hire Spanish teacher if it does not have a Spanish CV.
> 
> Second of all, who told you I have to be brought up in Kansas? I can be brought up just about everywhere and anywhere.
> 
> Thirdly, as I said a million times, I don't do spell or grammar check when I post here, why? Only people had shit command of English would go after other people English instead of their point to begin with. I can bet you $1000 dollars My English is better than you, if you don't believe me, I can leave you my WhatsApp and we can have a chat, but If I have to guess, you probably can only speak Call Center level English..
> 
> And finally, only idiot have no substance will challenge who that person is, instead of what he is talking about, so, are you an idiot??
> 
> P.S. I don't delete shit, don't need to when you are always telling the truth. Only sketchy a$$ people will think of deleting their convo history because there are something to hide. My Profile is open, and you can look up all my post, I dare you to find a post that I contradict myself.


What is CV?


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## SalarHaqq

waz said:


> I looked at this thread and I couldn't find the blasphemy.



Please have a look at this post: 









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Chinese Foreign Ministry: Washington's increase in cyber attacks in Ukraine to confront Russia is dangerous @AlArabiya_Brk Russian Foreign Ministry: The West does not consider a peaceful settlement a solution to the crisis in Ukraine @AlArabiya_Brk Zaporizhia separatist forces in Ukraine: We...



defence.pk





More or less in the middle of it, the following picture is posted: 







Text on the left hand one translates into: "Erdogan - In private, he is very funny" and in the speech balloon, the figure says: "Uuuuh! The Prophet!" while lifting a hijabi female's dress and exposing her bottom. 

On the right hand one, title reads: "Caricatures: the Prophet reassures Erdogan". A drawn character supposed to represent the Prophet (s) says: "You'll see... One ends up getting used to it...". This is in reference to the islampobic cartoons insulting Prophet Muhammad (s) that were published in France and Denmark.

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## waz

SalarHaqq said:


> Please have a look at this post:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> Chinese Foreign Ministry: Washington's increase in cyber attacks in Ukraine to confront Russia is dangerous @AlArabiya_Brk Russian Foreign Ministry: The West does not consider a peaceful settlement a solution to the crisis in Ukraine @AlArabiya_Brk Zaporizhia separatist forces in Ukraine: We...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More or less in the middle of it, the following picture is posted:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Text on the left hand one translates into: "Erdogan - In private, he is very funny" and in the speech balloon, the figure says: "Uuuuh! The Prophet!" while lifting a hijabi female's dress and exposing her bottom.
> 
> On the right hand one, title reads: "Caricatures: the Prophet reassures Erdogan". A drawn character supposed to represent the Prophet (s) says: "You'll see... One ends up getting used to it...". This is in reference to the islampobic cartoons insulting Prophet Muhammad (s) that were published in France and Denmark.



Got it missed that on the right. Thanks.

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## jhungary

Madni Bappa said:


> What is CV?


What is it stand for when you have to write it for a job?

A School's CV is their Syllabus 

curriculum = Course 
Vitae = Life

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## Madni Bappa

jhungary said:


> What is it stand for when you have to write it for a job?
> 
> A School's CV is their Syllabus
> 
> curriculum = Course
> Vitae = Life


No one uses the word CV in US.
Unless you are some Chandu or Pandey G.






Is that you Chandu?

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## jhungary

Madni Bappa said:


> No one uses the word CV in US.
> Unless you are some Chandu or Pandey G.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that you Chandu?


I am not in the US, and yes, School uses CV when I was in High School.


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## Madni Bappa

jhungary said:


> I am not in the US, and yes, School uses CV when I was in High School.


No chandu. It's Resume it's been that way since forever.

Your curry @ss needs to stick to the scam call centers.

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## jhungary

Madni Bappa said:


> No chandu. It's Resume it's been that way since forever.
> 
> Your curry @ss needs to stick to the scam call centers.


Did you need an eye check?? What did I wrote in the first sentence of the last post?

I AM NOT IN THE US.......

And no, I am not talking about resume, genius, I am talking about Course Curricula, used to call CV when I was in High School. Panday


----------



## 925boy

Viet said:


> So you mean the casualty rate of Putin’s army is 0, they are zombies or something they can’t die?


1. this isnt what i said.
2. this isnt what you claimed - you claimed Putin has same losses as Ukraine- THAT IS A LIE.


Viet said:


> Ok maybe Ukraine should resort to thing in old third rate horror movie films.


you mean war crimes? pls no.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535612026814451715

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535604370913501184

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## The SC

"You Ukrainians are obsessed with stealing, so you think everyone is like you."
Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov responded to a Ukrainian reporter's question about the stolen Ukrainian grain

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535164737813725185






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535599280899207168

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## SalarHaqq

ZeGerman said:


> Which catastrophes you want?
> Holodomor?
> Warsaw?
> Their abuse of the warsaw pact
> Afghanistan
> Chechnia (fsb staged attack)
> And now Ukraine. “Denazifying”



You're attributing policies of former states which no longer exist to the Russian Federation. By that logic you might as well blame on the current German regime, the Third Reich's invasion and occupation of the USSR as a result of which over 20 million Soviet citizens were killed. In terms of overall destruction and casualties, this alone will top anything you could possibly accuse Russia of. I wouldn't even need to mention earlier invasions of Russia by western powers such as the First French Empire.



ZeGerman said:


> They also support extremist and nationalistic forces in our society. That their manipulations were less effective at times is not for not trying.



Addressed already. They're reciprocating EU and US support for local opposition in Russia. In Chechnya and elsewhere, armed head-cutting terrorists also enjoyed assistance from NATO member states.



ZeGerman said:


> there was evidence for poisoning.
> Kuzmin wanted their “own” bloodtest (with risk of manipulation).
> Not something to object and lose your job over.



You're repeating a statement without substantiating it. The initial blood test could have been manipulated too.



ZeGerman said:


> I know, just adding “zionist puppet” like you do on opposing claims.



Well the regimes I qualify as such do happen to be allied with (and moreover pretty much subjugated to) the zionist entity.



ZeGerman said:


> Most thought this war would be done it 3 days. Now were 30.000 dead russians and counting.



More like 3000-4000 KIA on Russia's side. Versus up to five to ten times that number of Ukrainians.



ZeGerman said:


> Sure. Nazis nazis everywhere. Lets flatten cities!



A notorious neo-Nazi regiment, Azov, had thousands of fighters deeply entrenched in Mariupol, yes. Not Russian propaganda but something western media and regimes have acknowledged as well.



ZeGerman said:


> Your just parroting russian propaganda. Extreme right is a small % of the many tens of thousands resisting russia right now.



1) Adherents of far right ideology are disproportionately represented among the Ukrainian armed forces. There are numerous ultra-nationalist if not neo-Nazi controlled units in addition to Azov. Pravy Sektor, Sloboda and others each have their own distinct detachments.

2) They are far more obtuse than the normal units of the Ukrainian armed forces in their insistence on prolonging this already lost war. Hence why we've seen so many video recordings of regular Ukrainian troops complaining about their situation and resisting deployment orders. Morale among these is in shambles.



ZeGerman said:


> For sovereign ukraine to have ties to EU? Yeah catastrophy.



For it to be used as a staging ground for subsequent destabilization of the Russian Federation.



ZeGerman said:


> So you are in favour of more Saddams? Assads? Gaddafis?



I am against illegal and/or illegitimate, imperialist military intervention. These operations had nothing to do with removing dictators or averting large scale crimes, but were following purely expansive, hegemonist motivations, among which the dismantling and balkanization of targeted nation-states. And as a matter of fact Iraq, Syria, Libya are all worse off than before NATO started bombing them.



ZeGerman said:


> Yeah the entire eastern block just looved their system…



I was talking about contemporary Russia, not the USSR or Warsaw Pact states.

By the way one of the most famous dissidents of the USSR (if not the single most famous one), prominent novelist Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, stated that given the removal of the 'communist' system, now the focus of former eastern bloc nations ought to be on countering the current threat that is liberalism. How right he was.



ZeGerman said:


> Can you show me written promise?



I trust the many credible sources, eastern_ and western_, which reported it.



ZeGerman said:


> Unlike russias written promise after the nuke deal with ukraine.



Whatever Russia did in this regard was a consequence of NATO's broken promises.



ZeGerman said:


> Russias colonial empire falling apart…what disaster…



NATO has been encroaching itself along Russia's borders, not the other way around. Plus, Moscow would have been perfectly content with countries such as Ukraine observing some form of neutrality comparable to Austria's position during the Cold War. But that's not something Washington would accept, seeing as all indicators suggest the US regime would settle for nothing less than the destruction of Russia - if Moscow was suicidal enough to keep letting them act freely.



ZeGerman said:


> Moving goalspost. Both parties have multiple breaches on their name. And most of the deaths are due to seperatists.



Uh, not really. The ceasefire was first violated by the Ukrainian regime. That's the decisive point in international law.



ZeGerman said:


> How much more of europe does russia have to occupy? Even at its height it was still meddling and destabilizing the few western european countries it did not control.



If they leave Russia alone, forget about balkanizing her, then she will have no need to intervene militarily anywhere to her west.



ZeGerman said:


> Yes. Mariopol is worse then fallujah. Likely more civilian deathstoo.



Mariupol had twice the population of Fallujah and many more defending fighters, all better armed, better trained than the Fallujah resistance. And said defenders in Mariuopol were using residential buildings as shields much more systematically because they happened to despise locals, which they had actually been repressing for eight full years prior to the start of the war.

Everyone is familiar with the Odessa massacre, where Ukrainian ultra-nationalists burnt alive over 40 civilians trapped inside the Trade Unions building, but in Mariupol a far bigger massacre took place around the same time, costing the lives of an estimated 400 to 500 Russian-speaking civilians.

And then there's the entire rest of the military campaign. Russia did not drop as many bombs on Ukraine as NATO forces did on Iraq.

- - - - -



jhungary said:


> On the other hand, if he abandoned his post before Maidan, that have nothing to do with being conforming to democratic principal. Because, well, he abandoned his post before that happen.



Yanukovych didn't resign from the presidency. The reason he traveled to Russia was to ensure his personal safety in the face of multiple threats emanating from western-backed elements in Ukraine.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535622029411602432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535593060410740736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535566036589764608

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535530536529285120


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## jhungary

SalarHaqq said:


> Yanukovych didn't resign from the presidency. The reason he traveled to Russia was to ensure his personal safety in the face of multiple threats emanating from western-backed elements in Ukraine.?


Well, then I can say Ghani didn't "Resign" from Afghan Presidency either, he is just travel to UAE to ensure his own personal safety... now tell that to the Taliban.......At least Ghani knows Taliban is a threat, as they have been fighting the Talib for over 20 years, how did Yanukovych pre-see a threat *BEFORE* Maidan happens?? Maybe he have sixth sense and knew Maidan gonna happen?? I mean, he knows ahead of time before the protestor themselves knows they are going to take it on the street and protest?


----------



## Soldier35

A fragment of the battle of Russian special forces in Ukraine against a company of the 63rd brigade of the armed forces of Ukraine in the Nikolaev-Kherson direction has been published. In the video, you can see that one Ukrainian soldier surrenders and asks to stop shooting. As a result of the battle with the Russian special forces, ninety Ukrainian soldiers from the company of the 63rd brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were killed, some of the results of the battle are shown at the end of the video.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535655707864875009

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535593715871498241

Russia now over 4,300 losses


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534998366811303938

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535414195738619909

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535526677769555968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535526680898457600

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## Paul2

Paul2 said:


> Russia has 5 million draft eligible men, out of 15m total military age men (18-35,) but this statistics omits emigration, which is also uniquely huge for Russia. So we think at least 1m draft evader rich kids who live in the West, London included.
> 
> At most, half of that can be mobilised, without the economy going belly up completely.
> 
> But Russian military is materially incapable of accomodating so much upkeep, and not be able to process so many new soldiers.
> 
> In 2007, if I remember correct, our military instructor told what are the wartime _material_ capacity of nearby countries for troop support. Russia was only 1.5m, and that was at the time when Russian economy was doing like 3-4 times better.
> 
> I would risk to say that current Russian 1m army is dictated by their current material limits, and at most a surge can raise it to 1 2m-1.3m, while also trashing the economy more.
> 
> They can at most sustain war for 2 years, if they completely disregard their soldiers lives, and know that they will collapse anyways.



3.5 month have passed.

Following corrections are needed to be done:

What we have found so far: Russia fights on the cheap. They expend tons of ammo per day, but nearly all of that is very old Soviet stock. T62 probably has lesser value today than an NLAW rocket used to blow it up. DPR cannonfodder, and forcefully drafted Russian minorities also cost them close to nothing. Winter will be a big trial for them.

Ukraine aims to raise armed force of 1m with tooth to tail ratio of 50%. It will be 80k-100k trained soldiers, and 200k ok soldiers, and 200k bad soldiers.

What is Russian warplan? DPR force is down to 20k troops to injuries, desertion, and kias. Intense recruitment under a gunpoint is used to restore numbers, and they die in horrific numbers.

Russians also brought 40k-50k total manpower reinforcements to compensate for horrific losses of their best troops. Hastily recruited "volunteers," and gangpressed youth can't operate weapons, so they will only be used as infantry.

So, they are facing 80k Russian regulars, and at most 60k DPR/LPR + mercenaries. This way Russia has partially recovered the infantry losses, but specialist losses are still there. My assessment, since they are saving infantry, and are using mercs + DPR to storm cities, regular Russian forces are still very short on normal infantry. My guess, in total, Russian side has less than 50-60k infantry resource.

Their personnel resupply options are also very strange. They are mostly recruiting middle aged men from social bottom, so we have to expand their recruitment pool seeing that their "military age male" definition now spans into fifties.

Another very interesting observation is that how much of them were a net-drain on Russia, or close to no economic contributions. Russia has quite low labour force participation rate.

Gang pressing mostly happen outside of big cities news tell. So we are not seeing Russians trading labour force for soldiers yet.

I would say they will last 12-16 months before they have to think if they can go all in. Their total mobilisation pool now stands at 1.2m thanks to middle aged men. They already drew 200k out of it, and got 80k irreversible losses KIA+irrecoverable WIA.


----------



## kingQamaR

good question on Suffering : the russian losses were certainly high, but since we had zero information about the ukrainian ones (must be journalism deontology) that didn't tell anything about the reality of the military situation the russian operation was ill-prepared but that doesn't mean they won't win the war (at least on a military level


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## Paul2

kingQamaR said:


> good question on Suffering : the russian losses were certainly high, but since we had zero information about the ukrainian ones (must be journalism deontology) that didn't tell anything about the reality of the military situation the russian operation was ill-prepared but that doesn't mean they won't win the war (at least on a military level



Ukrainian side: 100k WIA+KIA civilians, and military combined.


----------



## F-22Raptor

The New York Times reported that Ukraine citizens in Kherson gave coordinates of a Russian base of operations to Ukrainian artillery about 12 miles from Kherson, and the base was completely destroyed killing about 200 Russian soldiers and mercenaries.

This was only a few days ago.



kingQamaR said:


> good question on Suffering : the russian losses were certainly high, but since we had zero information about the ukrainian ones (must be journalism deontology) that didn't tell anything about the reality of the military situation the russian operation was ill-prepared but that doesn't mean they won't win the war (at least on a military level




The Russians are losing at least 200-300 soldiers per day. Their losses are catastrophic.

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## Paul2

As other noted, the West has stalled with arm deliveries at the most critical moment, and gave Russian enormous advantage in firepower which they used to kill a lot of the most experienced part of Ukraine military in Donbas.

Russian side losses are huge in Donbas, but they are not losing their specialists there. Ukraine on other hand cannot realise its numeric superiority there because they are so inferior in long range, raw volume of fire, and geography.

In other words, Russian strongest side met Ukrainian weakest one.

Warfighting power of the infantry is worth comparison: DPR+mercs are actually outperforming infantry of regular Russian forces no matter how bad it still is. Russian regular infantry is very bad.


----------



## kingQamaR

Paul2 said:


> Ukrainian side: 100k WIA+KIA civilians, and military combined.



back in February, they said Russia could maintain its war for two weeks before starting to run out of equipment. Problem is, like the Russian peoples, we are also lied to

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## F-22Raptor

kingQamaR said:


> back in February, they said Russia could maintain its war for two weeks before starting to run out of equipment. Problem is, like the Russian peoples, we are also lied to




I never saw that. Any defense enthusiast knew that Russia had a s**t ton of armor and artillery.

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## kingQamaR

F-22Raptor said:


> The New York Times reported that Ukraine citizens in Kherson gave coordinates of a Russian base of operations to Ukrainian artillery about 12 miles from Kherson, and the base was completely destroyed killing about 200 Russian soldiers and mercenaries.
> 
> This was only a few days ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Russians are losing at least 200-300 soldiers per day. Their losses are catastrophic.



Out dated tactics after flawed strategy, against a better trained and equipped opponent, even if numerically inferior, is very risky indeed and inevitably costly


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535594135352131585

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535595833797779457

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535636675069624320

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Paul2 said:


> 3.5 month have passed.
> 
> Following corrections are needed to be done:
> 
> What we have found so far: Russia fights on the cheap. They expend tons of ammo per day, but nearly all of that is very old Soviet stock. T62 probably has lesser value today than an NLAW rocket used to blow it up. DPR cannonfodder, and forcefully drafted Russian minorities also cost them close to nothing. Winter will be a big trial for them.
> 
> Ukraine aims to raise armed force of 1m with tooth to tail ratio of 50%. It will be 80k-100k trained soldiers, and 200k ok soldiers, and 200k bad soldiers.
> 
> What is Russian warplan? DPR force is down to 20k troops to injuries, desertion, and kias. Intense recruitment under a gunpoint is used to restore numbers, and they die in horrific numbers.
> 
> Russians also brought 40k-50k total manpower reinforcements to compensate for horrific losses of their best troops. Hastily recruited "volunteers," and gangpressed youth can't operate weapons, so they will only be used as infantry.
> 
> So, they are facing 80k Russian regulars, and at most 60k DPR/LPR + mercenaries. This way Russia has partially recovered the infantry losses, but specialist losses are still there. My assessment, since they are saving infantry, and are using mercs + DPR to storm cities, regular Russian forces are still very short on normal infantry. My guess, in total, Russian side has less than 50-60k infantry resource.
> 
> Their personnel resupply options are also very strange. They are mostly recruiting middle aged men from social bottom, so we have to expand their recruitment pool seeing that their "military age male" definition now spans into fifties.
> 
> Another very interesting observation is that how much of them were a net-drain on Russia, or close to no economic contributions. Russia has quite low labour force participation rate.
> 
> Gang pressing mostly happen outside of big cities news tell. So we are not seeing Russians trading labour force for soldiers yet.
> 
> I would say they will last 12-16 months before they have to think if they can go all in. Their total mobilisation pool now stands at 1.2m thanks to middle aged men. They already drew 200k out of it, and got 80k irreversible losses KIA+irrecoverable WIA.



Russia has a few million unemployed bums sitting around with nothing to do. Send them to Ukraine where they can fight for land and wealth and snatch Ukrainian women for wives. Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. That gives them very good numbers game.



Paul2 said:


> As other noted, the West has stalled with arm deliveries at the most critical moment, and gave Russian enormous advantage in firepower which they used to kill a lot of the most experienced part of Ukraine military in Donbas.
> 
> Russian side losses are huge in Donbas, but they are not losing their specialists there. Ukraine on other hand cannot realise its numeric superiority there because they are so inferior in long range, raw volume of fire, and geography.
> 
> In other words, Russian strongest side met Ukrainian weakest one.
> 
> Warfighting power of the infantry is worth comparison: DPR+mercs are actually outperforming infantry of regular Russian forces no matter how bad it still is. Russian regular infantry is very bad.



I guess the West is pretty worried about depleting their arms stock in Ukraine in case China invades Taiwan and the West has nothing left in their arms depots to help Taiwan fight back. Just a hunch.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> As other noted, the West has stalled with arm deliveries at the most critical moment, and gave Russian enormous advantage in firepower which they used to kill a lot of the most experienced part of Ukraine military in Donbas.
> 
> Russian side losses are huge in Donbas, but they are not losing their specialists there. Ukraine on other hand cannot realise its numeric superiority there because they are so inferior in long range, raw volume of fire, and geography.
> 
> In other words, Russian strongest side met Ukrainian weakest one.
> 
> Warfighting power of the infantry is worth comparison: DPR+mercs are actually outperforming infantry of regular Russian forces no matter how bad it still is. Russian regular infantry is very bad.


From what I am seeing with my own eyes. I have two conclusion being made.

1.) NATO didn't do 1/10 they should have done. That part is true. If I were Jan Stoltenberg, and I mean it when I say I will help Ukraine defeat Russia, I will probably start sending MLRS on day 7, you don't really need to study Soviet Doctrine to know Artillery is Russian game, if you defeated Russian Artillery, they would not have any means to attack you without suffering heavy lost. Which mean if that was me, I would ask US, UK or any NATO country to donate their SPG, MLRS and guns.

Ukraine need ~100 MLRS, 1000 Artillery piece of any kind (155, new and old, SPG or Towed), and they need them 2 months ago, not 10 MLRS and 100 M777. US alone have thousand of old M109 and M198 sitting around doing nothing, That is something they should have sent to Ukraine almost on Day 1 after they have appraised the situation. Ukrainian are dying in Ukraine because those guns are not in Ukrainian hand, it is still sitting somewhere in National Guard Armory in the US.

2.) Ukraine is putting their best troop out of the war. Like 2014, for whatever reason Ukrainian have pull their best Brigade out of the East. Of the 8 Brigade serving the East, only 3 are from Regular Army. (53rd, 54th and 128th Assault Brigade) the rest are either National Guard Brigade or Brigade that raise recently. The OG Brigade were not deployed to the East (93rd, 95th, 1 TB and 10 mountain were not deployed to the East with the exception of 93rd saw some action near the rear of Donetsk.

Not sure if this is intentional or the Ukrainian refused to move them to war and initiate localised defence, but those Brigade are very well armed and Battle Hardened, they should be deployed to the East instead of sitting in Kyiv (95th) and Chernihiv (1TB). 92 and 93 saw some action in Kharkiv, but they aren't really used as a mobile force.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535656144156299265


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535656144156299265



It's also a good way to deplete Western arms stock in Ukraine. Eventually America will have to send all their F-16 and A-10 to Ukraine where they will be destroyed. Once the West has no more arms left, China invades Taiwan and the West cannot protect Taiwan anymore because all their arms would have been destroyed in Ukraine.



jhungary said:


> From what I am seeing with my own eyes. I have two conclusion being made.
> 
> 1.) NATO didn't do 1/10 they should have done. That part is true. If I were Jan Stoltenberg, and I mean it when I say I will help Ukraine defeat Russia, I will probably start sending MLRS on day 7, you don't really need to study Soviet Doctrine to know Artillery is Russian game, if you defeated Russian Artillery, they would not have any means to attack you without suffering heavy lost. Which mean if that was me, I would ask US, UK or any NATO country to donate their SPG, MLRS and guns.
> 
> Ukraine need ~100 MLRS, 1000 Artillery piece of any kind (155, new and old, SPG or Towed), and they need them 2 months ago, not 10 MLRS and 100 M777. US alone have thousand of old M109 and M198 sitting around doing nothing, That is something they should have sent to Ukraine almost on Day 1 after they have appraised the situation. Ukrainian are dying in Ukraine because those guns are not in Ukrainian hand, it is still sitting somewhere in National Guard Armory in the US.
> 
> 2.) Ukraine is putting their best troop out of the war. Like 2014, for whatever reason Ukrainian have pull their best Brigade out of the East. Of the 8 Brigade serving the East, only 3 are from Regular Army. (53rd, 54th and 128th Assault Brigade) the rest are either National Guard Brigade or Brigade that raise recently. The OG Brigade were not deployed to the East (93rd, 95th, 1 TB and 10 mountain were not deployed to the East with the exception of 93rd saw some action near the rear of Donetsk.
> 
> Not sure if this is intentional or the Ukrainian refused to move them to war and initiate localised defence, but those Brigade are very well armed and Battle Hardened, they should be deployed to the East instead of sitting in Kyiv (95th) and Chernihiv (1TB). 92 and 93 saw some action in Kharkiv, but they aren't really used as a mobile force.



For every artillery America can send to Ukraine, Russia can build 10 artillery. In terms of arms, Russia will always have the advantage in numbers over Ukraine. Not to mention Russia population outnumbers Ukraine population by 4 times and that is massive numbers advantage.

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## PakFactor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535656144156299265



Yawn

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Ukrainian side: 100k WIA+KIA civilians, and military combined.


Seems about right, the latest estimation is 25000 KIA with 3 times more wounded. That's before Civilian being counted tho.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> For every artillery America can send to Ukraine, Russia can build 10 artillery. In terms of arms, Russia will always have the advantage in numbers over Ukraine. Not to mention Russia population outnumbers Ukraine population by 4 times and that is massive numbers advantage.


EXactly how stupid were you??

Is it every child in Russia will fight in Ukraine?? Also. Russia do not have the capability to make new Artillery, not at that pace you think of anyway. While US have more than 1000 UNUSED stock sitting in National Guard Depot doing nothing.

I am not talking about sending new stuff like M777 or HIMARS in 1000s, I am talking about sending the old M198 and M109 mixed with a portion of New Stuff. If NATO country all donate a large portion of "ready" stock, it will drown Russia in term of Sheer equipment. NATO is a 30 member country, if every country donate an average of 50 artillery piece, you will have 1500 piece on hand.

Again, please do not quote me again, I have no appetite to discuss fantasy situation with you.

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## jhungary

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia certainly has the manufacturing ability to manufacture hundreds of artillery a year. Think Malva. It's on a truck chassis. Very cheap and quick to manufacture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2S43 Malva Self-Propelled Howitzer | Military-Today.com
> 
> 
> The 2S43 Malva is a new Russia's truck-mounted howitzer. It is fitted with a 152 mm ordnance and is based on a BAZ 8x8 chassis. This artillery system was first publicly revealed in 2020.
> 
> 
> 
> www.military-today.com


Sure, if US wanted, US can send 400 M109 and 400 M198 in the next month, are you saying Russia is capable of making 8000 artillery tube in 30 days??

Again, please do not quote me again.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Sure, if US wanted, US can send 400 M109 and 400 M198 in the next month, are you saying Russia is capable of making 8000 artillery tube in 30 days??
> 
> Again, please do not quote me again.



Russia certainly has the manufacturing ability to manufacture hundreds of artillery a year. Think Malva. It's on a truck chassis. Very cheap and quick to manufacture.





__





2S43 Malva Self-Propelled Howitzer | Military-Today.com


The 2S43 Malva is a new Russia's truck-mounted howitzer. It is fitted with a 152 mm ordnance and is based on a BAZ 8x8 chassis. This artillery system was first publicly revealed in 2020.



www.military-today.com





Not to mention China assists Russia with military hardware production. China has immense industrial power. With China's backing, Russia manufactures military hardware much faster than the West can. Ukraine war depletes the West's military hardware and this enables China to invade Taiwan when the West's arms depots are all empty with all their arms used up and depleted in Ukraine war.

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## jhungary

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia certainly has the manufacturing ability to manufacture hundreds of artillery a year. Think Malva. It's on a truck chassis. Very cheap and quick to manufacture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2S43 Malva Self-Propelled Howitzer | Military-Today.com
> 
> 
> The 2S43 Malva is a new Russia's truck-mounted howitzer. It is fitted with a 152 mm ordnance and is based on a BAZ 8x8 chassis. This artillery system was first publicly revealed in 2020.
> 
> 
> 
> www.military-today.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not to mention China assists Russia with military hardware production. China has immense industrial power. With China's backing, Russia manufactures military hardware much faster than the West can. Ukraine war depletes the West's military hardware and this enables China to invade Taiwan when the West's arms depots are all empty with all their arms used up and depleted in Ukraine war.


Is this guy for real??


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Sure, if US wanted, US can send 400 M109 and 400 M198 in the next month, are you saying Russia is capable of making 8000 artillery tube in 30 days??
> 
> Again, please do not quote me again.



Sure. But Ukraine has 0 oil production because Russia wrecked Ukraine's one and only oil refinery. To fuel such as mighty war machine needs lots of oil. America is an oil importer. America has no oil to spare. Senate will never approve a 100 billion aid package for Ukraine that includes that much oil for Ukraine war.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535690115988832256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535679888971145216

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## ZeGerman

SalarHaqq said:


> You're attributing policies of former states which no longer exist to the Russian Federation. By that logic you might as well blame on the current German regime, the Third Reich's invasion and occupation of the USSR as a result of which over 20 million Soviet citizens were killed. In terms of overall destruction and casualties, this alone will top anything you could possibly accuse Russia of. I wouldn't even need to mention earlier invasions of Russia by western powers such as the First French Empire.


Is Scholz talking about how sad he is when the Third Reich fell apart? Or how he compares himself to the former german empire heroes and should return germany to that former glory? Is Scholz a former gestapo? 

Cause Putin is….
And russian troops often fly soviet flags….

If we purely use the russian federation we have chechnia, syria, ukraine on the list. 


SalarHaqq said:


> Addressed already. They're reciprocating EU and US support for local opposition in Russia. In Chechnya and elsewhere, armed head-cutting terrorists also enjoyed assistance from NATO member states.


No they picked up where the soviets left off. Europe was regularly moving toward softer stance on russia, that did not stop russias constant meddling however. 



SalarHaqq said:


> You're repeating a statement without substantiating it. The initial blood test could have been manipulated too.


The initial test (and the mans face) are proof. Russia also has a bit of a history of poisoning opponents. 
Ofcourse a heavily Pro russian is going to go against that.


SalarHaqq said:


> Well the regimes I qualify as such do happen to be allied with (and moreover pretty much subjugated to) the zionist entity.


Antisemetic propaganda. 


SalarHaqq said:


> More like 3000-4000 KIA on Russia's side. Versus up to five to ten times that number of Ukrainians.


Hahaha not even the russians really believe that number. 


SalarHaqq said:


> A notorious neo-Nazi regiment, Azov, had thousands of fighters deeply entrenched in Mariupol, yes. Not Russian propaganda but something western media and regimes have acknowledged as well.


There are tens of millions fleeing ukraine…and not to the “liberator” russia….ukranian expats in europe are protesting against russia. 
Kiev, kharkiv, mykolaiv…russia is facing heavy resistance almost everywhere.

All nazis i assume? Laughable. 

These few thousands (and of which only a part is extreme right…so were talking even lower numbers) are a mere poor excuse Russia is using for this war of agression. “Denazifying” whole of ukraine for a handfull of nazis.
Hell Wagner probably houses more…




SalarHaqq said:


> 1) Adherents of far right ideology are disproportionately represented among the Ukrainian armed forces. There are numerous ultra-nationalist if not neo-Nazi controlled units in addition to Azov. Pravy Sektor, Sloboda and others each have their own distinct detachments.


A heavy minority of the 20.000 dead ukranian soldiers and many thousands of dead ukranian civilians. 
But russia will pay…this is a nation defining moment for ukraine. Millions upon millions now hate their former “brother” nation. 


SalarHaqq said:


> 2) They are far more obtuse than the normal units of the Ukrainian armed forces in their insistence on prolonging this already lost war. Hence why we've seen so many video recordings of regular Ukrainian troops complaining about their situation and resisting deployment orders. Morale among these is in shambles.


if morale was in shambles we would see a collapse like in afghanistan or iraq…



SalarHaqq said:


> For it to be used as a staging ground for subsequent destabilization of the Russian Federation.


Russia vowed to respect its security and sovereignity. 
Europe was inching closer to russia (nordstream) 

Russia is far from a victim here. Its hilarious that you paint it that way when russia just tries to annex ukraine…


SalarHaqq said:


> I am against illegal and/or illegitimate, imperialist military intervention.


Well…that is exactly what this is…


SalarHaqq said:


> These operations had nothing to do with removing dictators or averting large scale crimes, but were following purely expansive, hegemonist motivations, among which the dismantling and balkanization of targeted nation-states. And as a matter of fact Iraq, Syria, Libya are all worse off than before NATO started bombing them.


Syria by far most casualties are due to assad/russia. 

Did you compare the deaths of afghanistan russia/us invasion yet?


SalarHaqq said:


> I was talking about contemporary Russia, not the USSR or Warsaw Pact states.


The eastern European countries dont think that russia changed much….putin is proving them right. 

Sweden and finland even had enough. 


SalarHaqq said:


> By the way one of the most famous dissidents of the USSR (if not the single most famous one), prominent novelist Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, stated that given the removal of the 'communist' system, now the focus of former eastern bloc nations ought to be on countering the current threat that is liberalism. How right he was.
> 
> 
> 
> I trust the many credible sources, eastern_ and western_, which reported it.


Nothing written. And besides…its the “russian federation” now right?
Any verbal promise was with the “sovjet union” and you just stated all that history goes out of the window….

The federation did promise to ensure ukranian security /sovereignity however….

Also you handpick wich sources you want to take along….your not fooling anyone with your supposed “balanced” research….








Did NATO Promise Not to Enlarge? Gorbachev Says “No”


Russian President Vladimir Putin has made it well known his antipathy towards NATO, claiming the Alliance took advantage of Russian weakness after the collapse of the Soviet Union in violation of promises allegedly made to Moscow by Western leaders. Steven Pifer argues that no such promises were...




www.brookings.edu






SalarHaqq said:


> Whatever Russia did in this regard was a consequence of NATO's broken promises.


A certain action does not justify any/every following reaction…especially as russia/sovjets broke many dozen of promises themselves. Before nato existed even. 


SalarHaqq said:


> NATO has been encroaching itself along Russia's borders, not the other way around.


Funny way of describing how russias former colonies come running to our defensive pact. 


SalarHaqq said:


> Plus, Moscow would have been perfectly content with countries such as Ukraine observing some form of neutrality comparable to Austria's position during the Cold War. But that's not something Washington would accept, seeing as all indicators suggest the US regime would settle for nothing less than the destruction of Russia - if Moscow was suicidal enough to keep letting them act freely.


Moscow could not accept ukraine choose closer eu ties. Maybe russia should try diplomacy and trade instead of abusing and agressing their former “subjects/warsaw pact” all the time. 

That helps keeping them from hating russias guts.


SalarHaqq said:


> Uh, not really. The ceasefire was first violated by the Ukrainian regime. That's the decisive point in international law.


 Both sides can violate a ceasefire multiple times. That is not decisive justification to annex an entire nation. 

And still…Most civilian deaths are due to seperatist attacks. Seperatists russia has knee deep meddling in. 
So enough with this “stopping donbass genocide” bullshit propaganda


SalarHaqq said:


> If they leave Russia alone, forget about balkanizing her, then she will have no need to intervene militarily anywhere to her west.


Eastern block made up their mind. And clearly think differently then some iranian propagandist….i kinda think they have more knowhow and experience….


SalarHaqq said:


> Mariupol had twice the population of Fallujah and many more defending fighters, all better armed, better trained than the Fallujah resistance. And said defenders in Mariuopol were using residential buildings as shields much more systematically because they happened to despise locals, which they had actually been repressing for eight full years prior to the start of the war.
> 
> Everyone is familiar with the Odessa massacre, where Ukrainian ultra-nationalists burnt alive over 40 civilians trapped inside the Trade Unions building, but in Mariupol a far bigger massacre took place around the same time, costing the lives of an estimated 400 to 500 Russian-speaking civilians.


Russia has levelled multiple cities. From grozny to syria to now in ukraine. Many thousands of civilian deaths. 

It is clear who is the “bigger evil” here. 


SalarHaqq said:


> And then there's the entire rest of the military campaign. Russia did not drop as many bombs on Ukraine as NATO forces did on Iraq.
> 
> - - - - -


They fire 50.000 artillery shells a day now. 

If we take that into account then russia is throwing more explosives then usa did in iraq….
Civilian deaths are likely higher already too. 

And why do ukranians need to suffer under an expansionistic russia with dreams of former empire….because of american attack on iraq?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535680388521201666

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535656600471584769

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535685376303579137

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## ZeGerman

According to polling, 60% ukranians showed a cold sentiment against russia. That was before the current invasion by the way. Would be fun to poll current sentiment….


80%+ are now in favor of joining EU. 

I guess they are all just Nazis that must be “denazified”. Millions of them.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> According to polling, 60% ukranians showed a cold sentiment against russia. That was before the current invasion by the way. Would be fun to poll current sentiment….
> 
> 
> 80%+ are now in favor of joining EU.
> 
> I guess they are all just Nazis that must be “denazified”. Millions of them.



EU don't want Ukraine. Ukraine is a drag.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535698288342622209


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## _Nabil_

jhungary said:


> both the British (Not sure about the Moroccan) are Ukrainian Citizens.
> 
> Tell me where this broke the law of war regarding enemy combatant??


Shaun Pinner was an Ukrainian resident for 4 years not Ukrainian citizen...





__





Redirect Notice






www.google.com







https://tass.com/world/1463891

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535690115988832256

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## PakFactor

_Nabil_ said:


> Shaun Pinner was an Ukrainian resident for 4 years not Ukrainian citizen...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Redirect Notice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://tass.com/world/1463891



The problem with this conflict Ukrainian Government hiring "Mercenaries with $ 2,000 per month" in salary. They themselves have blurred the lines in this conflict to a great degree, hence they aren't afforded Geneva Convention protection cause they are in effect mercenaries, now if they were some sort of green card holders or citizens I understand, but those documents can be doctored by Ukrainian Government Officials. So by default Russia is in the right regarding there decision.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

If I were Donbas commander I publicly hang every British man captured in Donbas. That'll deter British men going to Donbas to fight. Stay. Stay in Britain and enjoy the good life. At the end of the day, doing so saves the lives of British men because British men will be too scared to go to Donbas because they know they will be publicly hang if caught.

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## _Nabil_

PakFactor said:


> The problem with this conflict Ukrainian Government hiring "Mercenaries with $ 2,000 per month" in salary. They themselves have blurred the lines in this conflict to a great degree, hence they aren't afforded Geneva Convention protection cause they are in effect mercenaries, now if they were some sort of green card holders or citizens I understand, but those documents can be doctored by Ukrainian Government Officials. So by default Russia is in the right regarding there decision.


Is $2.000 a month a big deal for a Britain? Does it worth the risk of being killed ? Sounds very cheap to me.

He can earn more than $2.000 a month giving English language courses in any third world country and live like a Nabab....

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## PakFactor

_Nabil_ said:


> Is $2.000 a month a big deal for a Britain? Does it worth the risk of being killed ? Sounds very cheap to me.
> 
> He can earn more than $2.000 a month giving English language courses in any third world country and live like a Nabab....



Stupid people do stupid things.

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## nang2

MeFishToo said:


> Definitely not. I wouldnt trust anything comming from Kadyrov or Putin. Theyre basically running countries like a criminal organization. Anyone cheering for them should honestly be deported from the west.


Apparently you pay more attention to him than I do.

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## Abid123

Apollon said:


> I speak for myself. I want see Russia crushed and destroyed to the point that it cant harm me, my life, my country and my family. And thanks god my government, the EU, NATO and USA do exactly that


You're comparing your country to Russia now? if Russia wanted, they could send your country to the stone ages. Don't get carried away with your fantasies.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535699759041855488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535726272206229504

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535686709647749120

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## Steppe Wolff

Abid123 said:


> You're comparing your country to Russia now? if Russia wanted, they could send your country to the stone ages. Don't get carried away with your fantasies.


Ukraine’s own Defense Ministry recently said that the amount of weaponry they received was enough to stop any European Army except the Russian Federation.

Russian Forces made some serious miscalculations in the first phases of the conflict but right now their Artillery is making minced meat out the Ukrainian. 

Western Trolls here try to portray Russians as a third world military power but right now Russians are crushing Ukrainians in Donbass. Odessa is next.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535722327371042818

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## Type59

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535698288342622209



Does not seem wise to commit troops to a battlefield where Russians have an advantage. Zelensky knows best.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535632934320975873

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535632940553625601

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535545706844405761

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535548741884731393

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535736731957444611

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535598579112415233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535534097048690688


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535560881400164353

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535701447878262784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535720571417284611

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## Flight of falcon

After spending $60B of out tax money on these Nazis they have started to drop weapons and run for their lives .....I guess life as a refugee in the West is better than dead in some trench.









Cases of desertion are growing among Ukrainian forces suffering significant losses in Russia's artillery onslaught, report says


An intelligence report reveals Ukraine is suffering thousands of casualties and are outgunned by Putin's forces in the Donbas, says The Independent.




ca.yahoo.com

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535266080733777921

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535702992443285505

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535566138398105600

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535183641902469120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535133811788357634

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534976964746002432


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535702992443285505




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534959342264406025

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535462109299060737

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## MeFishToo

Regarding foreigners in the ukrainian army:
A persons nationality doesnt matter. If youre enlisted in a countrys army, you are under protection of the Geneva Convention. Claiming anything else is pure BS. If Russia actually execute those 3 guys, its a war crime no matter how they spin this situation.
But they are not going to do it. Its just a propaganda stunt, giving Russia something to bargain with, and perhaps put some fear into foreigners joining Ukraine.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535560881400164353


Its a bit strange they are “fleeing” back the way they came from. Sad thing is this video doesnt really show what the twitter account claims.


----------



## Flight of falcon

This war is such a waste … the entire world is suffering. 

No one really wants to bankroll this conflict anymore. The poor are suffering in poor countries but now the Western country poor are devastated by crippling inflation. 

Time to stop helping Ukraine and let them surrender to end this misery .

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## The SC

MeFishToo said:


> Regarding foreigners in the ukrainian army:
> A persons nationality doesnt matter. If youre enlisted in a countrys army, you are under protection of the Geneva Convention. Claiming anything else is pure BS. If Russia actually execute those 3 guys, its a war crime no matter how they spin this situation.
> But they are not going to do it. Its just a propaganda stunt, giving Russia something to bargain with, and perhaps put some fear into foreigners joining Ukraine.
> 
> 
> Its a bit strange they are “fleeing” back the way they came from. Sad thing is this video doesnt really show what the twitter account claims.


You need the nationality of the country's army you want to enlist in.. if you don't know this.. don't engage in it..

Actually the video shows exactly what it claims.. so don't quote me again.. as it is obvious you are trolling..

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535738395107987461

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## _Nabil_

MeFishToo said:


> Regarding foreigners in the ukrainian army:
> A persons nationality doesnt matter. If youre enlisted in a countrys army, you are under protection of the Geneva Convention. Claiming anything else is pure BS. If Russia actually execute those 3 guys, its a war crime no matter how they spin this situation.
> But they are not going to do it. Its just a propaganda stunt, giving Russia something to bargain with, and perhaps put some fear into foreigners joining Ukraine.
> claims.


No Nationality = Mercenary

Is it that hard to assimilate?

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## zartosht

Western brands that have left Russia so far:

Microsoft
Apple
Dell
Electronic Arts
Sainsbury
Mango
Starbucks
Byglary
geogio armani
Hugo Boss
Lancolme
l'oreal
IKEA
H&M
berberries
nike
hermes
netflix
airbnb
spotify
Mercedes-benz
BMW
Harley Davidson
Boeing
Airbus
Mcdonalds
Burger King
Subway
and many more...

what do every single one of these companies have in common? 

with the possible exception of boeing/airbus, They produce overpriced products that can easily be replaced by many many different companies. humanity can easily survive with 0 loss (and even alot of gain, especially in health ) without ever needing to touch a single one of those western companies for the rest of their lives.

People will literally die , and the world as we know it will literally cease to exist and go back to the famished stoneages without Russian products..

This is the reason the west is getting slaughtered in the economic war, and everyone is either distancing themselves or hedging their bets. The world realized that they dont need the west, its the west that needs them. 


Biggest miscalculation in NATOs history.

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## _Nabil_

zartosht said:


> Western brands that have left Russia so far:
> 
> Microsoft
> Apple
> Dell
> Electronic Arts
> Sainsbury
> Mango
> Starbucks
> Byglary
> geogio armani
> Hugo Boss
> Lancolme
> l'oreal
> IKEA
> H&M
> berberries
> nike
> hermes
> netflix
> airbnb
> spotify
> Mercedes-benz
> BMW
> Harley Davidson
> Boeing
> Airbus
> Mcdonalds
> Burger King
> Subway
> and many more...
> 
> what do every single one of these companies have in common?
> 
> with the possible exception of boeing/airbus, They produce overpriced products that can easily be replaced by many many different companies. humanity can easily survive with 0 loss (and even alot of gain, especially in health ) without ever needing to touch a single one of those western companies for the rest of their lives.
> 
> People will literally die , and the world as we know it will literally cease to exist and go back to the famished stoneages without Russian products..
> 
> This is the reason the west is getting slaughtered in the economic war, and everyone is either distancing themselves or hedging their bets. The world realized that they dont need the west, its the west that needs them.
> 
> 
> Biggest miscalculation in NATOs history.


In fact, it a good thing they left, it gives opportunities to Russians companies and friendly countries ones.

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## The SC

_Nabil_ said:


> In fact, it a good thing they left, it gives opportunities to Russians companies and friendly countries ones.


Putin said they will regret their decision to leave Russia.. because it is an open economy..

The important thing to remember is they were forced by political decisions as sanctions.. not really willing to loose the Russian Market volunterally..

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## MeFishToo

_Nabil_ said:


> No Nationality = Mercenary
> 
> Is it that hard to assimilate?


Thats simply not true. A country can enlist a person with another nationality if they want to, and then this person is protected by the Geneva Convention like the rest of the soldiers. You and anybody else making up your own rules, based upon your opinion, doesnt change anything.
Bringing in a private organization, like Wagner, is a different matter, unless Russia is ready to admit that Wagner is infact an integrated part of the russian armed forces.



The SC said:


> You need the nationality of the country's army you want to enlist in.. if you don't know this.. don't engage in it..
> 
> Actually the video shows exactly what it claims.. so don't quote me again.. as it is obvious you are trolling..


Actually it doesnt. The two guys start running back the direction they came from and then the video ends. Its doesnt show any casualties and it doesnt show anyone fleeing.

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## jhungary

_Nabil_ said:


> Shaun Pinner was an Ukrainian resident for 4 years not Ukrainian citizen...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Redirect Notice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://tass.com/world/1463891


Again, it's the same even if he is just a resident. It's like people who join the US Military with a Green Card instead of as a Citizen, they are still state sponsored and fought as an American Soldier









Naturalization Through Military Service


If you are serving or have served in the U.S. armed forces and are interested in becoming a U.S. citizen, you may be eligible to apply for naturalization under special provisions of the Immigration



www.uscis.gov





Refer to Article 47 of Geneva Convention (1949)





__





Treaties, States parties, and Commentaries - Additional Protocol (I) to the Geneva Conventions, 1977 - 47 - Mercenaries






ihl-databases.icrc.org





Article 47 [ Link ] -- Mercenaries

1. A mercenary shall not have the right to be a combatant or a prisoner of war.

2. A mercenary is any person who:

(a) is specially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;

(b) does, in fact, take a direct part in the hostilities;

(c) is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party;

(d)* is neither a national of a Party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a Party to the conflict;*

(e)* is not a member of the armed forces of a Party* to the conflict; and

(f) *has not been sent by a State which is not a Party to the conflict on official duty as a member of its armed forces*.

Read the text in *Bolted Red

He is a resident of territory controlled by a party to the conflict *(He is a resident of Ukraine)

*He is sent by a state which is a party to the conflict* (Ukrainian Government sent him to Mariupol and Ukraine is a party of this conflict)

*He is a member of the Armed Forces of a Party* (He is a member of Ukrainian Armed Force)

Which mean he failed condition d, e and f, which mean he does not qualify as a Mercenary.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535445425645309953

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535429532869591040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535397691362004993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535386800654626816


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533880960529453056


jhungary said:


> Again, it's the same even if he is just a resident. It's like people who join the US Military with a Green Card instead of as a Citizen, they are still state sponsored and fought as an American Soldier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Naturalization Through Military Service
> 
> 
> If you are serving or have served in the U.S. armed forces and are interested in becoming a U.S. citizen, you may be eligible to apply for naturalization under special provisions of the Immigration
> 
> 
> 
> www.uscis.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Refer to Article 47 of Geneva Convention (1949)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Treaties, States parties, and Commentaries - Additional Protocol (I) to the Geneva Conventions, 1977 - 47 - Mercenaries
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ihl-databases.icrc.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 47 [ Link ] -- Mercenaries
> 
> 1. A mercenary shall not have the right to be a combatant or a prisoner of war.
> 
> 2. A mercenary is any person who:
> 
> (a) is specially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;
> 
> (b) does, in fact, take a direct part in the hostilities;
> 
> (c) is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party;
> 
> (d)* is neither a national of a Party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a Party to the conflict;*
> 
> (e)* is not a member of the armed forces of a Party* to the conflict; and
> 
> (f) *has not been sent by a State which is not a Party to the conflict on official duty as a member of its armed forces*.
> 
> Read the text in *Bolted Red
> 
> He is a resident of territory controlled by a party to the conflict *(He is a resident of Ukraine)
> 
> *He is sent by a state which is a party to the conflict* (Ukrainian Government sent him to Mariupol and Ukraine is a party of this conflict)
> 
> *He is a member of the Armed Forces of a Party* (He is a member of Ukrainian Armed Force)
> 
> Which mean he failed condition d, e and f, which mean he does not qualify as a Mercenary.


So what happens if you're caught before becoming a US or any other country's citizen..???


----------



## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535429532869591040


No doubt Ukraine had and has corruption but still.
Im from Denmark, and cant seem to find anything supporting this claim by “Media”. Would you care to tell me what Media is?



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533880960529453056
> So what happens if you're caught before becoming a US or any other country's citizen..???


The entire french foreign legion should face execution if defending France, based on this logic that foreigners are mercenaries.


----------



## jhungary

The SC said:


> You need the nationality of the country's army you want to enlist in.. if you don't know this.. don't engage in it..
> 
> Actually the video shows exactly what it claims.. so don't quote me again.. as it is obvious you are trolling..


You don't.

Again, most western and European countries allow Non-Citizen to join their Armed Forces.

US Military - USCIS (Immigration) have a special pathway that allow Green Card Holder to naturalise as US Citizen while serving or served the US Military









Naturalization Through Military Service


If you are serving or have served in the U.S. armed forces and are interested in becoming a U.S. citizen, you may be eligible to apply for naturalization under special provisions of the Immigration



www.uscis.gov





Canadian Military - Same pathway offered by Candian IRCC





__





Apply for citizenship: Canadian Armed Forces - Canada.ca


Find out if you’re eligible for citizenship: Canadian Armed Forces




www.canada.ca





British Military - UK allow Citizens of Commonwealth Country to join their Military - Although now recruitment is suspended to all commonwealth country other than Ireland due to *Sickle Cell Trait*





__





Nationality & Commonwealth - British Army Jobs


As a British citizen, you're able to join the British Army. Certain terms apply for applications from the Commonwealth. See if you can join the British Army.




apply.army.mod.uk





French Foreign Legion - well, need I say more??





__





Joining | French Foreign Legion Information


How to join the French Foreign Legion. Entry requirements, recruiting centers. Entry tests. Pay - salary, Career in the Legion. Where to join the Legion, what to take with you.




foreignlegion.info





Australian Defence Force - Australian is probably the harshest of the bunch but still allow non-Citizen to fill Defence Role if they can't find any









Citizenship


If you're an average Aussie with reasonable fitness you're probably already eligible for an Australian Defence Force job, so apply now for an exciting and rewarding career.




www.defencejobs.gov.au





Las Fuerzas Armadas Españolas - Spain allow Resident of Spain and other Spanish speaking country to join their reserve





__





Fuerzas Armadas Españolas | Cómo ingresar - Reservistas Voluntarios


Todos los civiles tienen el derecho constitucional de poder participar en la defensa de España, dedicando voluntariamente parte de tu tiempo a las Fuerzas Armadas.



reclutamiento.defensa.gob.es







The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533880960529453056
> So what happens if you're caught before becoming a US or any other country's citizen..???


You will be treated like an American POW as you are issued with a Geneva Convention Identification Card even if you are not US Citizen serving with the US MIlitary

This is Article 47 of Geneva Convention 1949, which defined the term Mercenaries, read part D, E and F





__





 Treaties, States parties, and Commentaries - Additional Protocol (I) to the Geneva Conventions, 1977 - 47 - Mercenaries






ihl-databases.icrc.org







> Article 47 [ Link ] -- Mercenaries
> 
> 1. A mercenary shall not have the right to be a combatant or a prisoner of war.
> 
> 2. A mercenary is any person who:
> 
> (a) is specially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;
> 
> (b) does, in fact, take a direct part in the hostilities;
> 
> (c) is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party;
> 
> (d) is neither a national of a Party to the conflict *nor a resident of territory controlled by a Party to the conflict*;
> 
> (e) is not a member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict; and
> 
> (f) has not been sent by a State which is not a Party to the conflict on official duty as a member of its armed forces.

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535738395107987461


I just checked the article. Again a false claim. It was a spanish newspaper that made the claim about sending 40 Leopard. It wasnt an official spanish statement, and the german government wasnt consulted. So Germany didnt block anything.
Main battle tanks are not part of the german support for Ukraine, but the article states this: _Beim Thema Waffenlieferungen gebe es »keine ewigen Prinzipien«, sagte Olaf Scholz._ . No principles are eternal (conserning weapons delivery), meaning german MBT could be delivered to Ukraine in the future.


----------



## The SC

jhungary said:


> You don't.
> 
> Again, most western and European countries allow Non-Citizen to join their Armed Forces.
> 
> US Military - USCIS (Immigration) have a special pathway that allow Green Card Holder to naturalise as US Citizen while serving or served the US Military
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Naturalization Through Military Service
> 
> 
> If you are serving or have served in the U.S. armed forces and are interested in becoming a U.S. citizen, you may be eligible to apply for naturalization under special provisions of the Immigration
> 
> 
> 
> www.uscis.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Canadian Military - Same pathway offered by Candian IRCC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apply for citizenship: Canadian Armed Forces - Canada.ca
> 
> 
> Find out if you’re eligible for citizenship: Canadian Armed Forces
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.canada.ca
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> British Military - UK allow Citizens of Commonwealth Country to join their Military - Although now recruitment is suspended to all commonwealth country other than Ireland due to *Sickle Cell Trait*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nationality & Commonwealth - British Army Jobs
> 
> 
> As a British citizen, you're able to join the British Army. Certain terms apply for applications from the Commonwealth. See if you can join the British Army.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apply.army.mod.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> French Foreign Legion - well, need I say more??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joining | French Foreign Legion Information
> 
> 
> How to join the French Foreign Legion. Entry requirements, recruiting centers. Entry tests. Pay - salary, Career in the Legion. Where to join the Legion, what to take with you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> foreignlegion.info
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Australian Defence Force - Australian is probably the harshest of the bunch but still allow non-Citizen to fill Defence Role if they can't find any
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Citizenship
> 
> 
> If you're an average Aussie with reasonable fitness you're probably already eligible for an Australian Defence Force job, so apply now for an exciting and rewarding career.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.defencejobs.gov.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Las Fuerzas Armadas Españolas - Spain allow Resident of Spain and other Spanish speaking country to join their reserve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fuerzas Armadas Españolas | Cómo ingresar - Reservistas Voluntarios
> 
> 
> Todos los civiles tienen el derecho constitucional de poder participar en la defensa de España, dedicando voluntariamente parte de tu tiempo a las Fuerzas Armadas.
> 
> 
> 
> reclutamiento.defensa.gob.es
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You will be treated like an American POW as you are issued with a Geneva Convention Identification Card even if you are not US Citizen serving with the US MIlitary
> 
> This is Article 47 of Geneva Convention 1949, which defined the term Mercenaries, read part D, E and F
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Treaties, States parties, and Commentaries - Additional Protocol (I) to the Geneva Conventions, 1977 - 47 - Mercenaries
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ihl-databases.icrc.org


I mean like Vietnamese, or Afghans who fought under US army.. but were nor residents of the US.. what would have been their faith if caught in that war by the opposing side..???

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Abid123

USA and its vassals fighting Russia to the last Ukranian.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Brainsucker

The SC said:


> I mean like Vietnamese, or Afghans who fought under US army.. but were nor residents of the US.. what would have been their faith if caught in that war by the opposing side..???


I'm curious too.

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## The SC

On June 15, the first trial hearings for the war criminals of the National Battalion will begin in Mariupol #Азов

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535547080042741760

Reactions: Like Like:
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## RoadAmerica

Tai Hai Chen said:


> We warned the Kiev regime to stop shelling Donbas children. They did not heed the warning. Now they will pay with their blood.
> 
> Russia has plenty armed drones to smash that Harpoon truck if it ever shows its face.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, China shares recon satellite intel with Russia to hunt down people who terrorize Donbas children.


Omg stop deflecting you’re wrong admit it. First Russia sees everything now China shares info come on man


----------



## 925boy

ZeGerman said:


> 80%+ are now in favor of joining EU.


But that remaining 20% is like the ball of food that got stuck in NATO's throat of integrating Ukraine into NATO - those Russian speakers in Ukraine will never agree for Ukraine to join NATO, and that was why US and NATo supported Ukranian govt in suppressing them violently in Donbas.

That 20% had broken up Ukraine irreversibly, you sound so foolish.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

The SC said:


> I mean like Vietnamese, or Afghans who fought under US army.. but were nor residents of the US.. what would have been their faith if caught in that war by the opposing side..???


It really depends on the circumstance.

Let me make this clear for you.

There are 6 requirements for you to met to be call a Mercenary. You need to meet ALL 6 to be identify as Mercenary That was laid out in Article 47 Geneva Convention Protocol I

2. A mercenary is any person who:

(a) is specially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;

(b) does, in fact, take a direct part in the hostilities;

(c) is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party;

(d) is neither a national of a Party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a Party to the conflict;

(e) is not a member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict; and

(f) has not been sent by a State which is not a Party to the conflict on official duty as a member of its armed forces.

So it meant A person who is specifically recruited (1) to take part in a conflict (2) and is motivated by personal/private gain or material compensation that would be more than what is pay to any state actor (3) and is neither a citizen nor resident of any party in this conflict (4) or represent any armed force in each belligerent state (5) and is not send by any state party as an official member of its armed force (6) Then and only then, can that person be a mercenary.

Let's break down what is a Mercenary and what isn't


So if you are not specifically recruit to fight in a conflict (as in being tricked) then you are not a mercenary
So if you are not taking part in the hostilities (as in tourist/foreign national that trap in a warzone) then you are not a mercenary
So if you are not motivated by personal gain or are promise to paid more than the state actor (As in member of a NGO for example) , then you are not a mercenary
So if you are a citizen or resident of a party of that conflict, even if you are motivated by personal gain and paid more than State Actor (US PMC in Iraq for example) You are not a mercenary, this is due to inherit right of self defence, as a citizen/resident of belligerent party have the right to defend yourself in a war your country involved in.
So if you are a organised member of the Armed Force of the belligerent party (Foreigner in war sponsored by state armed force) then you are not a mercenary
So if you are send by a state that is not a party in the conflict but was an official member of that party armed force in a warzone for official duty (UN Observer or Foreign Embassy military escort), then you are not a mercenary 

So if US, Vietnam, or Afghanistan is one of the party of the conflict, then D will not met, and they are not Mercenary. If US is a belligerent party but not Vietnam and Afghanistan, and those Vietnmanese and Afghani fought UNDER US (as an interpreter as an example) then E will not met and they are not mercenary, If none of those are party to a conflict, then depends on whether or not they are in a conflict zone for official business on behalf of their respective country. If they are, then F will not met and they are not Mercenary. If They are not in a conflict zone for official business, then depends on whether and they are specifically recruited for conflict, then depends on if they were paid more than any State Actor, if they do, then they are Mercenary, and if they didn't then they aren't.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535744655303794688

Reactions: Like Like:
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## 925boy

The SC said:


> The important thing to remember is they were forced by political decisions as sanctions.. not really willing to loose the Russian Market volunterally..


those corporations gladly followed US govt instructions to leave- where was their challenge to US govt to not kick them out of Russia???

"EVery choice has an implied rejection" - By not challenging the US and Western sanctions plan on Russia, those corporations became part of the economic war against Russia, so NO, they are not innocent, lets not be naive.

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## PakFactor

Steppe Wolff said:


> Ukraine’s own Defense Ministry recently said that the amount of weaponry they received was enough to stop any European Army except the Russian Federation.
> 
> Russian Forces made some serious miscalculations in the first phases of the conflict but right now their Artillery is making minced meat out the Ukrainian.
> 
> Western Trolls here try to portray Russians as a third world military power but right now Russians are crushing Ukrainians in Donbass. Odessa is next.



Russians haven’t fought a grueling war in decades against a professional army last action was in WWII. Now the Russians are learning what they’ll be up against and adopting and I’m sure after this conflict there will be a revamping of Russian Armed Forces, and China will contribute and itself learn from this conflict.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535738395107987461



Germany don't want see Leopard 2 blown up in Donbas. Bad for Germany's reputation.

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## PakFactor

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535545706844405761



Dear lord some one needs to tell this mongrel to shut the **** up.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535722880872419331

Reactions: Like Like:
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1 | Sad Sad:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535783486472491008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535654931847430144


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535722880872419331



Hobby quadcopters are dangerous. You can't hear it. It's so quiet.


----------



## sammuel

The SC said:


> "You Ukrainians are obsessed with stealing, so you think everyone is like you."
> Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov responded to a Ukrainian reporter's question about the stolen Ukrainian grain
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535164737813725185




Yeh , Right.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535773919361216515

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535800500213280768

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535745178744545280

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## Apollon

Abid123 said:


> You're comparing your country to Russia now? if Russia wanted, they could send your country to the stone ages. Don't get carried away with your fantasies.



You mean russia would try to pull us down on their low level? 70% of russians have no acess to a functional toilet.



Abid123 said:


> USA and its vassals fighting Russia to the last Ukranian.



No, USA and EU know history the moment Ukraine is lost to Putler, next will be baltics and poland, then Germany. Its plain and simple, dictators do their thing as long they are allowed to do it. Hitler was same.


----------



## khansaheeb

US intelligence told to keep quiet over role in Ukraine military triumphs


CIA veterans advise successors against ‘unwise’ intelligence boasts that could trigger escalation from Russia




www.theguardian.com





US intelligence told to keep quiet over role in Ukraine military triumphs​This article is more than 1 month old
CIA veterans advise successors against ‘unwise’ intelligence boasts that could trigger escalation from Russia

Russia-Ukraine war: latest updates





Officials were quotes as saying that US intelligence had helped Ukraine hit the Moskva with anti-ship missiles last month. Photograph: Max Delany/AFP/Getty Images

Julian Borger in Washington
Sat 7 May 2022 01.10 EDT


Former US intelligence officers are advising their successors currently in office to shut up and stop boasting about their role in Ukraine’s military successes.
Two stories surfaced in as many days in the American press this week, citing unnamed officials as saying that US intelligence was instrumental in the targeting of Russian generals on the battlefield and in the sinking of the Moskva flagship cruiser on the Black Sea.

The initial report in the New York Times on Wednesday about the generals was partially denied by the White House, which said that while the US shares intelligence with Ukrainian forces, it was not specifically shared with the intent to kill Russian general officers.



US shared location of cruiser Moskva with Ukraine prior to sinking
Read more
Advertisement




















The next day, NBC, the New York Times and the Washington Post all quoted officials as saying that US intelligence had helped Ukraine hit the Moskva with anti-ship missiles last month, making it the biggest Russian ship to be sunk since the second world war.
As a general rule, espionage is carried out in secret, though western intelligence agencies have turned that rule on its head over the past few months by going public with what they knew about Russian preparations for invasion, and then with daily reports on the battlefield and from behind Russian lines.
The new disclosures are different however, as they concern what the US espionage agencies themselves have been doing, rather than commenting on the state of the war.
In both cases, the US was claiming a hand in historic humiliations for Moscow and for Vladimir Putin, triggering warnings of unintended consequences.
Paul Pillar, a former senior CIA official, said: “My personal view is it’s unwise. I am surprised at the extent of official confirmation of the role of US intelligence in the sinking of the Moskva, and even more so the killing of the generals.
“The big concern is that this sort of public confirmation of this extensive US role in the setbacks dealt to the Russians may provoke Putin into escalation in a way that he might not otherwise feel it necessary to escalate.”
John Sipher, who served for 28 years in the CIA’s clandestine service, some of that time in Moscow, thought the decision to disclose details of intelligence sharing was misguided, but for different reasons.
Advertisement

“I just think it’s disrespectful to the Ukrainians,” Sipher said. “It’s taking away from the people who are actually on the ground, who are taking advantage of the intelligence, who are collecting their own intelligence, who are fighting day and night.”
However, he did not think that it significantly raised the risk of escalation between Russia and Nato.
“Putin understands how the game is played. He gets intelligence to try to kill Americans if the situation is reversed, as he did in Afghanistan and other places. The Russians have spent years attacking us with cyber warfare and disinformation,” Sipher said.
“So I don’t think them being upset that America is sharing intelligence is a game-changer.”
European officials made clear their own intelligence agencies would not be following the US lead.
“It’s stupid,” one official said. “I don’t think it is a carefully coordinated leak.”
An official from another European country cast doubt on the centrality of US intelligence to the Ukrainian targeting of Russian generals, saying the main factor was the predictability of Russian officers as they followed rigid Soviet-era doctrine. The breakdown in their secure communications equipment and the top-down hierarchy of the Russian army meant the top officers had to travel to the frontlines to be sure their orders were carried out and Ukrainian snipers were waiting for them.
In the case of the Moskva, US officials were at pains to emphasise that Ukraine made its own targeting decisions, and drew information from multiple sources.
“We are not the only sole source of intelligence and information to the Ukrainians. They get intelligence from other nations as well and have a pretty robust intelligence collection capability,” John Kirby, the Pentagon spokesman, said.
“They’ve been fighting this war against Russia for eight years. It’s not like they are completely blind to the way Russia organises itself and the way Russia conducts itself on the battlefield.”

_This article was amended on 9/5/22 to correct an error in a quote_

​… we have a small favour to ask. Tens of millions have placed their trust in the Guardian’s fearless journalism since we started publishing 200 years ago, turning to us in moments of crisis, uncertainty, solidarity and hope. More than 1.5 million supporters, from 180 countries, now power us financially – keeping us open to all, and fiercely independent.
Unlike many others, the Guardian has no shareholders and no billionaire owner. Just the determination and passion to deliver high-impact global reporting, always free from commercial or political influence. Reporting like this is vital for democracy, for fairness and to demand better from the powerful.
And we provide all this for free, for everyone to read. We do this because we believe in information equality. Greater numbers of people can keep track of the global events shaping our world, understand their impact on people and communities, and become inspired to take meaningful action. Millions can benefit from open access to quality, truthful news, regardless of their ability to pay for it.
If there were ever a time to join us, it is now. Every contribution, however big or small, powers our journalism and sustains our future.* Support the Guardian from as little as $1 – it only takes a minute. Thank you.*

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Ukraine Slams Biden's Comments on Zelensky Not Heeding Warnings—'Absurd'​

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535794680218193920

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## The SC

jhungary said:


> It really depends on the circumstance.
> 
> Let me make this clear for you.
> 
> There are 6 requirements for you to met to be call a Mercenary. You need to meet ALL 6 to be identify as Mercenary That was laid out in Article 47 Geneva Convention Protocol I
> 
> 2. A mercenary is any person who:
> 
> (a) is specially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;
> 
> (b) does, in fact, take a direct part in the hostilities;
> 
> (c) is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party;
> 
> (d) is neither a national of a Party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a Party to the conflict;
> 
> (e) is not a member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict; and
> 
> (f) has not been sent by a State which is not a Party to the conflict on official duty as a member of its armed forces.
> 
> So it meant A person who is specifically recruited (1) to take part in a conflict (2) and is motivated by personal/private gain or material compensation that would be more than what is pay to any state actor (3) and is neither a citizen nor resident of any party in this conflict (4) or represent any armed force in each belligerent state (5) and is not send by any state party as an official member of its armed force (6) Then and only then, can that person be a mercenary.
> 
> Let's break down what is a Mercenary and what isn't
> 
> 
> So if you are not specifically recruit to fight in a conflict (as in being tricked) then you are not a mercenary
> So if you are not taking part in the hostilities (as in tourist/foreign national that trap in a warzone) then you are not a mercenary
> So if you are not motivated by personal gain or are promise to paid more than the state actor (As in member of a NGO for example) , then you are not a mercenary
> So if you are a citizen or resident of a party of that conflict, even if you are motivated by personal gain and paid more than State Actor (US PMC in Iraq for example) You are not a mercenary, this is due to inherit right of self defence, as a citizen/resident of belligerent party have the right to defend yourself in a war your country involved in.
> So if you are a organised member of the Armed Force of the belligerent party (Foreigner in war sponsored by state armed force) then you are not a mercenary
> So if you are send by a state that is not a party in the conflict but was an official member of that party armed force in a warzone for official duty (UN Observer or Foreign Embassy military escort), then you are not a mercenary
> 
> So if US, Vietnam, or Afghanistan is one of the party of the conflict, then D will not met, and they are not Mercenary. If US is a belligerent party but not Vietnam and Afghanistan, and those Vietnmanese and Afghani fought UNDER US (as an interpreter as an example) then E will not met and they are not mercenary, If none of those are party to a conflict, then depends on whether or not they are in a conflict zone for official business on behalf of their respective country. If they are, then F will not met and they are not Mercenary. If They are not in a conflict zone for official business, then depends on whether and they are specifically recruited for conflict, then depends on if they were paid more than any State Actor, if they do, then they are Mercenary, and if they didn't then they aren't.


I guess most countries of the world..including Russia know about this article 47 of the Geneva Convention Protocol I.. So if the Russians or DPR call these guys Mercenaries they must know what they are talking about..

The problem is that Ukraine Has created a foreign legion army.. but do they get the citizenship like the French foreign legion automatically?.. I know it is already pretty complicated to get the Ukrainian citizenship in the first place..

The other .. and most important problem is what if these guys have committed proven war crimes?



PakFactor said:


> Russians haven’t fought a grueling war in decades against a professional army last action was in WWII. Now the Russians are learning what they’ll be up against and adopting and I’m sure after this conflict there will be a revamping of Russian Armed Forces, and China will contribute and itself learn from this conflict.


Well..the whole world is learning from this conflict..there are too many new war tactics and doctrines to take note of.. mostly by developing countries..

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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535685376303579137









PakFactor said:


> Stupid people do stupid things.




Do stupid things

win stupid prizes

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## sammuel

The SC said:


> I guess most countries of the world..including Russia know about this article 47 of the Geneva Convention Protocol I.. So if the Russians or DPR call these guys Mercenaries they must know what they are talking about..
> 
> The problem is that Ukraine Has created a foreign legion army.. but do they get the citizenship like the French foreign legion automatically?.. I know it is already pretty complicated to get the Ukrainian citizenship in the first place..
> 
> The other .. and most important problem is what if these guys have committed proven war crimes?
> 
> 
> Well..the whole world is learning from this conflict..there are too many new war tactics and doctrines to take note of.. mostly by developing countries..



Come on , Ukrainians are fighting for there homes , If a few fellow allies volunteered to help , they sure don't do it for money benefit.

If anyone is deploying Mercenaries on a large scale it is Russia .

What exactly have the chechias got to look in Ukraine ? The vagner group ? Syrians ?









Russia deploys up to 20,000 mercenaries in battle for Ukraine’s Donbas region


Moscow is luring mercenaries from Syria, Libya and elsewhere in effort to capture as much as possible of eastern Ukraine




www.theguardian.com


----------



## ckf

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Ukraine Slams Biden's Comments on Zelensky Not Heeding Warnings—'Absurd'​











Ukraine disputes Biden’s claim Zelensky ‘didn’t want to hear’ warnings Russia would invade


One Ukrainian official said Biden’s words were “not quite true”, while another stated that the phrase “did not want to hear” probably needs “clarification”.




www.scmp.com





It's interesting that despite knowing Russia's potential attack on Kyiv, Zelensky and his aids were more interested in talks with his master Biden than calling Kremlin for a diplomatic solution. Biden's comments on Zelensky is a potential shift in US policy to slow weapons delivery to force Zelensky to the negotiation table, the war has the potential to bring down House of Cards in Washington as well as derail democrats control of Congress and Senate in the mid term elections.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535810156495503361

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535663494812540929

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535598122629533696

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535597662300426253

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## sammuel

ckf said:


> It's interesting that despite knowing Russia's potential attack on Kyiv, Zelensky and his aids were more interested in talks with his master Biden than calling Kremlin for a diplomatic solution.



I would love to here what " diplomatic solution " Russians would have agreed on.


~


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## kingQamaR

Ukraine stated that on Thursday alone they lost 600 men. That's the official Ukrainian figures. They say normally they lose 200-300 a day. If you do the maths on that since the start of the war their loses are collosal, even by their own figures. 100+ days at 300 a day

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## jhungary

The SC said:


> I guess most countries of the world..including Russia know about this article 47 of the Geneva Convention Protocol I.. So if the Russians or DPR call these guys Mercenaries they must know what they are talking about..
> 
> The problem is that Ukraine Has created a foreign legion army.. but do they get the citizenship like the French foreign legion automatically?.. I know it is already pretty complicated to get the Ukrainian citizenship in the first place..
> 
> The other .. and most important problem is what if these guys have committed proven war crimes?
> 
> 
> Well..the whole world is learning from this conflict..there are too many new war tactics and doctrines to take note of.. mostly by developing countries..


The problem is, DNR/LNR themselves are considered Non-State Party. This war is between Russia and Ukraine, not DNR/LNR and Ukraine. DNR/LNR in effect is like what Taliban is to Afghanistan. If DNR or LNR fighter were organised into Russian Army, that would have been another issue, but as far as I understand, the command structure is different.

Furthermore, LNR/DNR as an entity does not exist, they are not a recognized country in international arena (Just Russia and a few state recognize them as independent nation, that's not enough). Just because you wear Uniform does not mean you are a state actor. In term of law of war, DNR/LNR fighting fight under their respective flag are considered insurgent, whether or not they consider Mercenary is a separate issue. 

As for whether or not Foreign Legion legitimacy. Unless they are paid way more than Ukrainian Military in the same rank and function, they are not considered mercenary whether or not they were offered Citizenship afterward, as per clause 3 of Article 47.


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## Muhammed45

kingQamaR said:


> Ukraine stated that on Thursday alone they lost 600 men. That's the official Ukrainian figures. They say normally they lose 200-300 a day. If you do the maths on that since the start of the war their loses are collosal, even by their own figures. 100+ days at 300 a day


The country is led by a homosexual rat, what do you expect? Why should Ukrainian soldiers show bravery? For sake of what/whom? Ukraine despite having support of the whole west, is losing the battle. That's an indication of that country's losing leadership.

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## SalarHaqq

ZeGerman said:


> Is Scholz talking about how sad he is when the Third Reich fell apart? Or how he compares himself to the former german empire heroes and should return germany to that former glory? Is Scholz a former gestapo?
> 
> Cause Putin is….
> And russian troops often fly soviet flags….



And why exactly are they flying Soviet flags? To commemorate the Soviet Union's historic victory over that same regime Scholz purportedly isn't "too proud" of... In other terms, to celebrate victory in a defensive war against a western power threatening their people once again as we speak.

Also, do I really need to recall the entire list of NSDAP members and Third Reich dignitaries recruited by the current German regime?

Whom they had no qualms of placing at the helm of security services, of all administrative offices (!). Such as one Reinhard Gehlen, former head of the Wehrmacht's Foreign Armies East Military Intelligence, known for personally setting up the Federal Republic of Germany's foreign intelligence service BND and serving as its first president until 1968. The same Gehlen who also served in the Bundeswehr, where he held the highest possible ranking as a reserve officer. And was awarded the regime's Order of Merit.

To add insult to injury, today we have Berlin supporting neo-Nazis in Ukraine, who torture people Gestapo-style.

No, Germany is definitely not in a position to lecture Russia in this regard, nor anyone else for that matter.



ZeGerman said:


> If we purely use the russian federation we have chechnia, syria, ukraine on the list.



The Chechen wars saw Russia squashing separatists, which included head-cutting, NATO-backed foreign fighters.

In Syria, Russia was requested to intervene by the local government against NATO-sponsored head-cutting insurgents including "I"SIS.

These are defensive wars.

So is Ukraine, although this one's partially preemptive. Just partially though, because the regime in Kiev had broken the ceasefire in the Donbas, violated two international agreements and was repressing the Russian community on its soil.



ZeGerman said:


> No they picked up where the soviets left off. Europe was regularly moving toward softer stance on russia, that did not stop russias constant meddling however.



No, all along the 1990's Russia was entirely powerless and in a more than desolate condition. A bankrupted Russia, whose industries were being plundered by western-linked oligarchs could impossibly afford any meaningful funding of political parties in western Europe. Whereas conversely, Foreign Ministry employees in Moscow were receiving instructions on the phone from Washington.

This is what the actual historic sequence looks like.



ZeGerman said:


> The initial test (and the mans face) are proof. Russia also has a bit of a history of poisoning opponents.



This is the proof you were withholding? No comment. Other than what I mentioned before, and which sheds serious doubts on the accusation peddled by NATO and its local clients in Ukraine.



ZeGerman said:


> Ofcourse a heavily Pro russian is going to go against that.



An entire department of the Ukrainian judiciary staffed by Russian supporters?



ZeGerman said:


> Antisemetic propaganda.





This is Pakistan Defence Forum, not the German public space where anti-zionism is quasi systematically equated with judeophobia, you know.



ZeGerman said:


> Hahaha not even the russians really believe that number.



Because you can read their minds I assume. How convincing an interjection.



ZeGerman said:


> There are tens of millions fleeing ukraine…and not to the “liberator” russia….ukranian expats in europe are protesting against russia.
> Kiev, kharkiv, mykolaiv…russia is facing heavy resistance almost everywhere.
> 
> All nazis i assume? Laughable.
> 
> These few thousands (and of which only a part is extreme right…so were talking even lower numbers) are a mere poor excuse Russia is using for this war of agression. “Denazifying” whole of ukraine for a handfull of nazis.
> Hell Wagner probably houses more…



Strawmanning all over the place. The fact remains that in Mariupol, the Azov regiment had their headquarters and was fielding thousands of fighters as per the admissions of western regimes and media, which is the point under discussion.



ZeGerman said:


> A heavy minority of the 20.000 dead ukranian soldiers and many thousands of dead ukranian civilians.
> But russia will pay…this is a nation defining moment for ukraine. Millions upon millions now hate their former “brother” nation.



Nearly half of Ukraine's population is composed of native Russian speakers. And they experienced eight long years of oppression at the hands of western-promoted Ukrainian far right extremists. They still do in regions not yet liberated, where upon the slightest expression of sympathy for the Russian Federation, they are arrested and disappear in dungeons where they are tortured in conformity with Ukrainian law (which has legalized torture much like the Bush junior regime did in the USA).



ZeGerman said:


> if morale was in shambles we would see a collapse like in afghanistan or iraq…



1) Russia unlike NATO isn't simply bombing everything to smithereens.
2) The basic warfighting capability of Ukrainian armed forces is far superior to Afghanistan or the Iraq of the early 2000's.
3) Over-represented neo-Nazis and other far right extremists, high on captagon and morphine are engaging in a nihilistic and hopeless stand which achieves to delay Russian advances even though it fails at averting them.
4) The Donbas is home to the heaviest and most fortified Ukrainian defence lines.
5) If morale among many regular units of the Ukrainian military wasn't particularly low, they wouldn't release this many videos to voice their desperation, despite the extreme punishments they risk.
6) Now desertions need to be added to the mix, as acknowledged even by western propaganda media:








Cases of desertion are growing among Ukrainian forces suffering significant losses in Russia's artillery onslaught, report says


An intelligence report reveals Ukraine is suffering thousands of casualties and are outgunned by Putin's forces in the Donbas, says The Independent.




ca.yahoo.com





So just watch Ukrainian forces falter little by little, they can slow down but not prevent the inevitable.



ZeGerman said:


> Russia vowed to respect its security and sovereignity.
> Europe was inching closer to russia (nordstream)





ZeGerman said:


> Russia is far from a victim here. Its hilarious that you paint it that way when russia just tries to annex ukraine…



You're making it appear as if NATO never manifested any hostile intentions towards Russia. Bona fide russophobes they put in power in Kiev after overthrowing democratically elected governments via CIA-orchestrated "color revolutions" and armed mobs, we must have dreamt it all up... not.

Meanwhile some western European politicians acted in a slightly more responsible manner than the bulk of their sell-out colleagues and attempted to counteract Washington's push for confrontation with Russia. It's they to whom we owe projects such as Nordstream. However, in the end EU regimes proved that they're comfortable with vassalage and will forego their own best interests for the sake of Uncle Sam's raging lust for destruction.

As said, continued subjugation to American (and zionist) overlords will only have devastating consequences for European states, including on the security front and not least because they're actively making an enemy out of Russia when this was not necessary nor inevitable. All it would have taken was to show some fortitude and decouple their policy from the US regime. It's still not too late.



ZeGerman said:


> Well…that is exactly what this is…



There's no relation and I explained why. Neither of the countries destroyed by NATO in recent decades posed any real threat to the latter. So much so that they needed to concoct bogus "evidence" of WMD and other such universally debunked fairy tales. With regards to Ukraine and Russia, the situation is of course totally different.



ZeGerman said:


> Syria by far most casualties are due to assad/russia.



Claims a MI6-handled nobody in his home in London, who is known for issuing uncorroborated statements left and right. But even the latter cannot but confess that the governmental camp's civilian to military kill ratio was no worse than 2 to 1 - in reality it was probably far more favorable even. Which, for a counter-insurgency effort in mostly urban and densely populated area fought with a lack of precision munitions is nothing out of the ordinary. The zionist regime, which benefits from a much larger stock of accurate ordinance, has killed proportionally more civilians in several aggressions it launched on the Lebanese and Palestinians.



ZeGerman said:


> Did you compare the deaths of afghanistan russia/us invasion yet?



I don't know of any invasion of Afghanistan by Russia. As for the USSR, factor in the might and resources of the very few states assisting the Taleban in the 2000's, versus the array of powers supporting the Mujahedin against the Soviets, or else no comparison would make sense.



ZeGerman said:


> The eastern European countries dont think that russia changed much….putin is proving them right.
> 
> Sweden and finland even had enough.



Some of them seem to have thought it'd be a good idea to seek "revenge" against a weakened Russia by joining NATO, instead of establishing strong mutually constructive ties. Now it's backfiring and rightfully so.

Others like the current administration in Hungary still seem to be capable of independent and rational policy-making, relatively speaking.



ZeGerman said:


> Nothing written. And besides…its the “russian federation” now right?



Doesn't need to be, there are enough credible sources attesting of it. If the USSR was given such an assurance, which it was, then in all logic it would have had to apply even more so to a much weaker Russian Federation in the 1990's and early 2000's.



ZeGerman said:


> Also you handpick wich sources you want to take along….your not fooling anyone with your supposed “balanced” research….
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did NATO Promise Not to Enlarge? Gorbachev Says “No”
> 
> 
> Russian President Vladimir Putin has made it well known his antipathy towards NATO, claiming the Alliance took advantage of Russian weakness after the collapse of the Soviet Union in violation of promises allegedly made to Moscow by Western leaders. Steven Pifer argues that no such promises were...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.brookings.edu



Because the "Brookings Institution", a USA think tank oscillating between lib-hawk and neocon positions, is a valid source?

That sort of stuff isn't going to fly with anyone with an ounce of intellectual probity.



ZeGerman said:


> A certain action does not justify any/every following reaction…especially as russia/sovjets broke many dozen of promises themselves. Before nato existed even.



Getting progressively encircled by a rabidly hostile military alliance whose nation-wrecking habits are there for all to see, and exhausting all peaceful diplomatic means in an attempt to reason with them, justifies pushing back if they obstinately stick to their antagonistic line.



ZeGerman said:


> Funny way of describing how russias former colonies come running to our defensive pact.



"Running" from windmills. Or rather, gobbled up by an expansionist, hegemonist, warmongering US regime.



ZeGerman said:


> Moscow could not accept ukraine choose closer eu ties. Maybe russia should try diplomacy and trade instead of abusing and agressing their former “subjects/warsaw pact” all the time.



Russia has been militarily intervening against former Warsaw Pact states "all the time", in a parallel universe perhaps.



ZeGerman said:


> Both sides can violate a ceasefire multiple times. That is not decisive justification to annex an entire nation.



It is initiated by one party. And that party was the regime in Kiev, end of story.

The prospect of having a hostile, notoriously oppressive and warmongering superpower station troops on one's border, and use the area as a staging ground for acts of destabilization, while one's ethno-linguistic brethren are getting shelled by local clients of that superpower provides far better justification than some trumped up "WMD" charges against an impoverished, feeble country located ten thousand of kilometers away and relying on an incapable military - not least because it was subjected to a decade of inhumane sanctions by the aggressor, as a result of which a million of its citizens perished.



ZeGerman said:


> And still…Most civilian deaths are due to seperatist attacks. Seperatists russia has knee deep meddling in.
> So enough with this “stopping donbass genocide” bullshit propaganda



Outlandish contention. Between the signing of the Minsk accords and the start of the Russian special military operation, 14000 Donbas residents were slaughtered by Ukrainian regime forces, most of them civilians.



ZeGerman said:


> Eastern block made up their mind. And clearly think differently then some iranian propagandist….i kinda think they have more knowhow and experience….



Ah, random Iranians are bound to be propagandists while eastern European leaders are incapable of objectionable policy-making and miscalculation. And if the German people in March 1933 voted the NDSAP into power, that too must have been based on their superior "know-how and experience" I suppose.

By the way, it's quite rich to be labelled a "propagandist" by one of the multiple NATO-sympathizing users who joined this forum over the past few weeks with the express purpose of posting merely in this one thread, and trying to salvage what is salvageable on the psy-ops front by rehashing pre-fabricated talking points provided to them by the western regimes, considering the debacle zio-American lackeys in Ukraine are suffering.



ZeGerman said:


> Russia has levelled multiple cities. From grozny to syria to now in ukraine. Many thousands of civilian deaths.
> 
> It is clear who is the “bigger evil” here.



There can be no doubt that this unenviable title goes straight to the US regime, its client states and other minions. We're talking about a regime which caused a million Iraqi civilians to perish including half a million children and newborns as a result of suffocating sanctions it imposed on that country from 1991 to 2003, and which its Secretary of State brushed off on live television as an "acceptable price" to pay.

The war in Syria is also a direct consequence of zio-American meddling and deliberate engineering of a civil war.



ZeGerman said:


> They fire 50.000 artillery shells a day now.
> 
> If we take that into account then russia is throwing more explosives then usa did in iraq….
> Civilian deaths are likely higher already too.



They certainly aren't. Furthermore the US regime provoked a million Iraqi civilian deaths before invading.



ZeGerman said:


> And why do ukranians need to suffer under an expansionistic russia with dreams of former empire….because of american attack on iraq?



That's your thought process, not mine. Ukrainians and Russians are suffering because of the US empire's expansionism in Europe as well as the concrete, immediate threats this policy is posing to the Russian Federation. US attacks on Iraq and an endless list of other countries however serve as an illustration as to how Washington operates and what its true agenda consists of, behind the fallacious facade of lies and manipulations.

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## Viet

925boy said:


> 1. this isnt what i said.
> 2. this isnt what you claimed - you claimed Putin has same losses as Ukraine- THAT IS A LIE.
> 
> you mean war crimes? pls no.


Read your own posts. You said Russia casualty was reduced to minimum.
What that means? Is between 0 a d 10 per day?
Ukraine says they lose 100-200 own men per day, Russia casualty rate is higher. I estimate Putin has the same casualty rate like Ukraine. That’s realistic figure. Unless you say Russians are superhuman they are immune against artillery shells.

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## mulj

I am reading news that Ukraina is started to suffer from lack of ammunition, especially artilerry rounds, here in Bosnia we have huge factory which produced Warsaw pact standard ammunition, also able to produce by NATo standards but there are no orders by EU countries of for resupplying UAF, if there is organized effort by NATO that factory should already work in 4 shifts due necessity for field artillery units of UA.


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## Apollon

Viet said:


> Read your own posts. You said Russia casualty was reduced to minimum.
> What that means? Is between 0 a d 10 per day?
> Ukraine says they lose 100-200 own men per day, Russia casualty rate is higher. I estimate Putin has the same casualty rate like Ukraine. That’s realistic figure. Unless you say Russians are superhuman they are immune against artillery shells.



You are wrong, in an attack the attacker usually has losses 2 to 3 times higher than the defending force


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## jhungary

mulj said:


> I am reading news that Ukraina is started to suffer from lack of ammunition, especially artilerry rounds, here in Bosnia we have huge factory which produced Warsaw pact standard ammunition, also able to produce by NATo standards but there are no orders by EU countries of for resupplying UAF, if there is organized effort by NATO that factory should already work in 4 shifts due necessity for field artillery units of UA.


Ukraine supplies issue was unique. 

The problem with Ukrainian armed force is that they mostly carry Ex-Soviet weapon, which mean 7.62x39 and 122 mm rocket, 152.4mm artillery shell. The Ukrainian factory is in Dnipro and Donbas. Both of which were under producing even before the war. 

On the other hand, it's not at all easy to use other munition even the same calibre. The same problem with Iraq when the Eastern European country that were fighting in Iraq (Still using ex-Soviet Weapon) are having problem with using Iraqi stockpile, different chemical, different ratio would produce different result even if they are the same dimension and calibre. On the other hand, US, Canada and NATO are all using NATO standard munition, that would make it easier for NATO to supply their weapon if they switch to NATO munition.

Which created the unique problem today, Ukrainian own post Soviet munition is running low (why wouldn't they be, they have been using them since day 1) and NATO supplies not enough weapon and munition on their end of the agreement.


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## S10

jhungary said:


> Ukraine supplies issue was unique.
> 
> The problem with Ukrainian armed force is that they mostly carry Ex-Soviet weapon, which mean 7.62x39 and 122 mm rocket, 152.4mm artillery shell. The Ukrainian factory is in Dnipro and Donbas. Both of which were under producing even before the war.
> 
> On the other hand, it's not at all easy to use other munition even the same calibre. The same problem with Iraq when the Eastern European country that were fighting in Iraq (Still using ex-Soviet Weapon) are having problem with using Iraqi stockpile, different chemical, different ratio would produce different result even if they are the same dimension and calibre. On the other hand, US, Canada and NATO are all using NATO standard munition, that would make it easier for NATO to supply their weapon if they switch to NATO munition.
> 
> Which created the unique problem today, Ukrainian own post Soviet munition is running low (why wouldn't they be, they have been using them since day 1) and NATO supplies not enough weapon and munition on their end of the agreement.


For a former Soviet Republic with so many inherited weapons factories, Ukraine sure ran out of shells fast. What you cannot take by firepower, you must pay in lives.

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## ZeGerman

According to polling, 60% ukranians showed a cold sentiment against russia. That was before the current invasion by the way. Would be fun to poll current sentiment….


80%+ are now in favor of joining EU.

I guess they are all just Nazis that must be “denazified”. Millions of them.


925boy said:


> But that remaining 20% is like the ball of food that got stuck in NATO's throat of integrating Ukraine into NATO - those Russian speakers in Ukraine will never agree for Ukraine to join NATO, and that was why US and NATo supported Ukranian govt in suppressing them violently in Donbas.
> 
> That 20% had broken up Ukraine irreversibly, you sound so foolish.


More propaganda. Most deaths in donbass were due to seperatists. And most countries rush to join Nato to protect them from russian agression. 

It is russia that is choking on going against the 80%….they might be able to annex the 20% ethnic russians that they migrated there after starving the ukrainians in the holodomor…but the other 80% of their “brother nation” will hate them for their violence. 

We go from a situation of ukraine being close to russian influence sphere. 
To 80% of ukraine violently opposing russia. 
Russia lost 30.000 soldiers and nato lost 0. 
Nato will gain multiple countries (sweden/finland). 
Europeans are doubling their military spending. 

Its a disaster for russia vs nato. 
We are just sad to see ukraine having to suffer from such a needless russian war.

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## S10

Apollon said:


> You are wrong, in an attack the attacker usually has losses 2 to 3 times higher than the defending force


Did US lose 2 to 3 times as many men as the Japanese did when they were attacking in the Pacific? No Japanese defenders were always devastated by superior firepower.

Ukraine is getting outgunned at least 10 to 1 in terms of artillery, not to mention Russia having air superiority.

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## mulj

jhungary said:


> Ukraine supplies issue was unique.
> 
> The problem with Ukrainian armed force is that they mostly carry Ex-Soviet weapon, which mean 7.62x39 and 122 mm rocket, 152.4mm artillery shell. The Ukrainian factory is in Dnipro and Donbas. Both of which were under producing even before the war.
> 
> On the other hand, it's not at all easy to use other munition even the same calibre. The same problem with Iraq when the Eastern European country that were fighting in Iraq (Still using ex-Soviet Weapon) are having problem with using Iraqi stockpile, different chemical, different ratio would produce different result even if they are the same dimension and calibre. On the other hand, US, Canada and NATO are all using NATO standard munition, that would make it easier for NATO to supply their weapon if they switch to NATO munition.
> 
> Which created the unique problem today, Ukrainian own post Soviet munition is running low (why wouldn't they be, they have been using them since day 1) and NATO supplies not enough weapon and munition on their end of the agreement.


Bosnia can ease their situation in certain extent with all that you mentioned as we have the capacities and facilities for such but some external push and supervising from NATO and EU is needed.


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## SalarHaqq

Apollon said:


> So much words and its all bullshit, amazing. You must have lots of hate and desperation in you. I pity you and im serious about that.
> 
> Too sit down, write down so much rubbish in almost maniacal way and doing so knowing full well that no sane civilized person will ever change his or her mind and say: "wow that iranian dude is right, maybe facist regimes like russia and iran are not that bad".
> 
> Seek help buddy.



Says someone who happily refers to themself as, I quote, "a psychopath".

Furthermore it ought to be reminded that the discussion in question was not started by me. In fact I was about to add the user on my ignore list when they suddenly quoted me, and haven't ceased doing so ever since. Also the user is not exactly keeping it short either, so how about blaming them too.

Last but not least, it's certainly not as if any reader here is going to be persuaded by your or the other user's rants. Whilst those you're quite hilariously referring to as "civilized" (amongst which psychopaths, according to your own declared standards, would feature prominently) are not people I or others like me would wish to convince in any way. We'll prefer sticking with rational audiences, as well as 85% of the global public whom to you are "uncivilized", and in whose eyes western regimes are increasingly exposing themselves for what they really are.

In that sense, do keep up the "civilized supremacism" - it's very helpful indeed!

- - - - -



mulj said:


> I am reading news that Ukraina is started to suffer from lack of ammunition, especially artilerry rounds, here in Bosnia we have huge factory which produced Warsaw pact standard ammunition, also able to produce by NATo standards but *there are no orders by EU countries* of for resupplying UAF, if there is organized effort by NATO that factory should already work in 4 shifts due necessity for field artillery units of UA.



Independence is priceless.

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## S10

kingQamaR said:


> Ukraine stated that on Thursday alone they lost 600 men. That's the official Ukrainian figures. They say normally they lose 200-300 a day. If you do the maths on that since the start of the war their loses are collosal, even by their own figures. 100+ days at 300 a day


Where are you reading the 600 men part? That seems way too high for KIA if the normal death to wounded ratio is 1:5. That means Ukraine would have 3000 casualties in a single day.

Only confirmed is that Ukraine is losing between 100 to 200 troops per day.

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## mulj

SalarHaqq said:


> Independence is priceless.


indeed, that is why my country should support Ukraina with all its means.


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## Soldier35

A fragment of the battle from the Ukrainian side, soldiers of the Ukrainian army were surrounded in Severodonetsk. One of the soldiers of Ukraine shouts for the detachment to descend, in response another shouts to him that they cannot, as they are being shot

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## Viet

Apollon said:


> You are wrong, in an attack the attacker usually has losses 2 to 3 times higher than the defending force


Probably true. Western technology kills in much efficiency. Also, Putin in response imposes hunger, diseases, and famine as weapon. The world is overpopulated.

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## SalarHaqq

mulj said:


> indeed, that is why my country should support Ukraina with all its means.



...while not being able to do so because it must await orders from the EU, to paraphrase your initial comment. Perhaps accession to the EU should then be taken off Bosnia's agenda, considering her degree of dependence even prior to becoming an actual member state.

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## Apollon

S10 said:


> Did US lose 2 to 3 times as many men as the Japanese did when they were attacking in the Pacific? No Japanese defenders were always devastated by superior firepower.
> 
> Ukraine is getting outgunned at least 10 to 1 in terms of artillery, not to mention Russia having air superiority.



Japanese were not defenders. Or do you claim now Solomon Islands, Indonesia ect was Japan? Japan had zero connection to these lands, had hostile people around it and keep evrything running from mainland Japan. Japan was the attacker in those areas who tried to entranch


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## Apollon

SalarHaqq said:


> Says someone who happily refers to themself as, I quote, "a psycopath".
> 
> Furthermore it ought to be reminded that the discussion in question was not started by me. In fact I was about to add the user on my ignore list when they suddenly quoted me, and haven't ceased doing so ever since. Also the user is not exactly keeping it short either, so how about blaming them too.
> 
> Last but not least, it's certainly not as if any reader here is going to be persuaded by your or the other user's rants. Whilst those you're erroneously referring to as "civilized" (among which psycopaths, according to your own declared standards, would be featured prominently) are not people I or others like me would wish to convince in any way. We'll prefer sticking with rational audiences, as well as 85% of the global public whom to you are "uncivilized", and in whose eyes western regimes are increasingly exposing themselves for what they really are.
> 
> In that sense, keep up the "civilized supremacism", it's very helpful indeed!
> 
> - - - - -
> 
> 
> 
> Independence is priceless.



You know what strength a psychopath has? We can easily look through people and their minds. I read you like a book.


You come from a desperate and humilated country and blame evryone else for your misery but not yourself. You live in Europe and you are evry day confronted with our living style here. Its a conflict you cant solve and so you spread all this bullshit.


Btw there is no independence in tyranny. Who is independend in Putins hell or in Iran? I can go travel where i want. What is normal for us here in the west is completly alien for people having to endure tyranny. I should know, my father is from eastern germany. My grandmother dreamed her intire life to visit Egypt, Argentina or Japan. All impossible in that communist hell which btw had to build a wall to prevent its people running away. Im thankful for USA that they hold west germany save from this and im thankful they helped topple USSR. 


Thats what Ukrainians fight for. Evry ukrainian trapped on russian controlled lands will be trapped in misery.


Its also the reason why Russia wont win. Europe never bowed to tyrants. 


As for you, i told you to look for help. You are intelligent and can make something from you i have no doubt about that.


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## S10

Apollon said:


> Japanese were not defenders. Or do you claim now Solomon Islands, Indonesia ect was Japan? Japan had zero connection to these lands, had hostile people around it and keep evrything running from mainland Japan. Japan was the attacker in those areas who tried to entranch


Japan was the defending force and US was the attacking force during the late Pacific island campaigns. Are you pretending to be retarded or really retarded? For someone claiming to be a psychopath you sound more like a fuckwit.

In any case, Japan was losing at least 5 to 1 despite having been dug in simply because they were outgunned by Americans. Ukraine is now outgunned by Russia at least 10 to 1 in terms of artillery firepower.

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## kingQamaR

Given the scarcity of of ex-Soviet artillery ammunition, it is likely that a number of Western artillery pieces and ammunition will be sent, because no one in the West manufactures artillery ammunition to Soviet/Russian calibers (152mm & 122mm). Instead, they will send in SP and towed Western 155mm artillery systems for which plenty of ammunition is available.


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## mulj

SalarHaqq said:


> ...while not being able to do so because it must await orders from the EU, to paraphrase your initial comment. Perhaps accession to the EU should then be taken off Bosnia's agenda, considering her degree of dependence even prior to becoming an actual member state.


You are right but we do not have that luxury due our surrounding.
Regarding initial point EU is impotent for that matter, in that scenario they would work only PR and financing part, only USA could kick of that kind of project if they are willing to do so.


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## SalarHaqq

Apollon said:


> You know what strength a psychopath has? We can easily look through people and their minds. I read you like a book.





Apollon said:


> You come from a desperate and humilated country and blame evryone else for your misery but not yourself. You live in Europe and you are evry day confronted with our living style here. Its a conflict you cant solve and so you spread all this bullshit.



This attempt at psychoanalysis is factually off track but you wouldn't know. Same goes for the subsequent political analysis. Now you're projecting your political assessments on me and are assuming I must surely share them - however that isn't the case, for I fail to see what humiliation and misery relative to my homeland you're referring to. The criteria we attach importance to aren't identical, that's in addition to disinformation about Iran you've been confronted with. As for my surroundings in the west, I simply don't pay attention to them nor do they affect me (either positively or negatively) for I have more important things to attend to. But this being very much off topic, I shall not pursue it any further.


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## Paul2

kingQamaR said:


> Given the scarcity of of ex-Soviet artillery ammunition, it is likely that a number of Western artillery pieces and ammunition will be sent, because no one in the West manufactures artillery ammunition to Soviet/Russian calibers (152mm & 122mm). Instead, they will send in SP and towed Western 155mm artillery systems for which plenty of ammunition is available.



You can actually fire 155mm out of old 152mm barrels. They are just that much worn out.

They are already requesting new MG3 barrels because current ones have worn out

And yes. US 203mm should be fireable from Ukrainian pion.

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## Apollon

S10 said:


> Japan was the defending force and US was the attacking force during the late Pacific island campaigns. Are you pretending to be retarded or really retarded? For someone claiming to be a psychopath you sound more like a fuckwit.
> 
> In any case, Japan was losing at least 5 to 1 despite having been dug in simply because they were outgunned by Americans. Ukraine is now outgunned by Russia at least 10 to 1 in terms of artillery firepower.



And why were they outgunned? Because they had no connection to the land they stood on. No people to put in army, no industrial base. Evrything had to be shipped in from Japan.



SalarHaqq said:


> This attempt at psychoanalysis is factually off track but you wouldn't know. Same goes for the subsequent political analysis. Now you're projecting your political assessments on me and are assuming I must surely share them - however that isn't the case, for I fail to see what humiliation and misery relative to my homeland you're referring to. The criteria we attach importance to aren't identical, that's in addition to disinformation about Iran you've been confronted with. As for my surroundings in the west, I simply don't pay attention to them nor do they affect me (either positively or negatively) for I have more important things to attend to. But this being very much off topic, I shall not pursue it any further.



My analysis is absolute on track. I know Iran amigo. One of my girlfriends parents came from Shiraz. Its a deeply insecure country witz extreme complexes of humilation. The smart people left long ago and those who are educated run to the west as well. What is left behind is plebs, farmers, mullahs and crazed nationalists.


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## jhungary

S10 said:


> For a former Soviet Republic with so many inherited weapons factories, Ukraine sure ran out of shells fast. What you cannot take by firepower, you must pay in lives.


It's more complicated than you think. As I said, the Arms and Munition in Ukraine are Unique.

Ukraine largely uses Soviet Bloc weapon since 1991 until 2014 when the Russian sided with the separatist, Ukraine were in the process to phase out all Soviet Weapon with new Weapon (such as Fort Series firearms are co produced with Israel) and newer heavy equipment aligned to NATO standard (such as 155mm instead of 152mm) For example the new 2S22 Bohdana SPG Ukraine made uses 155mm.

Which mean since 2014, the weapon and munition production in Ukraine are effectively halved with one half produce munition and parts for the older Soviet Equipment in order to maintain the stock and the other half that produce newer NATO compliant weapon.

Problem is, since 2014, majority of Industrial Base are either captured or destroyed in the East, only those factory in Dnipro and North of Kyiv is spared. Their munition productivities already halved, and then this war started and the first thing Russia do is to invade the Industral Area north of Kyiv (Hostomel and surrounding) And the Dnipro plant can't work until you get parts which mean more or less the entire arms production in Ukraine is halted since the war.

Not to mention there is an active war going on since 2014 til 2022 when it was replaced by the current war.

Which mean they are now largely runs on Western Munition donated by the West or whatever old Soviet Stock Eastern EU country still have.



mulj said:


> Bosnia can ease their situation in certain extent with all that you mentioned as we have the capacities and facilities for such but some external push and supervising from NATO and EU is needed.


Most likely they will push for entire NATO stock. I mean, sure, you can make munition in Bosnia, but you can't make those Soviet Weapon that were destroyed in this war (the 2S9, D-30 and so on). And without those weapon firing the Soviet Calibre munition, it's pointless to order more Eastern Bloc calibre munition.

Which mean after this war, we will most likely see what left of Ukraine would be at least mostly if not entirely using NATO standard weapon.


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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> Given the scarcity of of ex-Soviet artillery ammunition, it is likely that a number of Western artillery pieces and ammunition will be sent, because no one in the West manufactures artillery ammunition to Soviet/Russian calibers (152mm & 122mm). Instead, they will send in SP and towed Western 155mm artillery systems for which plenty of ammunition is available.


You can use 155 on D-30, as @Paul2 said, you will wear out the barrel and waiting on it to explode. 

You can't use 152 shell on a M777 or M198 US artillery uses caseless munition, you will need to break it open and then insert the shell and charge separately, and that is if they ever propelled off that barrel.

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## kingQamaR

Paul2 said:


> You can actually fire 155mm out of old 152mm barrels. They are just that much worn out.
> 
> They are already requesting new MG3 barrels because current ones have worn out
> 
> And yes. US 203mm should be fireable from Ukrainian pion.



HOWISTERS…155MM, 175MM. this is because the Ukrainians do not have ammunition for their Russian GUNS. INDIA has ammunition, Pacistan has ammunition…EGYPT…Israel…African nations. Most likely POLAND…Latvia, Estonia…possibly Finland. Iraq…Lybia, Sudan, Saudis would be another source. CHINA could make a few BILLION DOLLARS


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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> You can use 155 on D-30, as @Paul2 said, you will wear out the barrel and waiting on it to explode.
> 
> You can't use 152 shell on a M777 or M198 US artillery uses caseless munition, you will need to break it open and then insert the shell and charge separately, and that is if they ever propelled off that barrel.



USSR has 2 completely different 152mm artillery systems, one QF semifixed, another non-fixed with bags


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## jhungary

S10 said:


> Did US lose 2 to 3 times as many men as the Japanese did when they were attacking in the Pacific? No Japanese defenders were always devastated by superior firepower.
> 
> Ukraine is getting outgunned at least 10 to 1 in terms of artillery, not to mention Russia having air superiority.


Actually, US have twice the Casualty than Japanese Force during Iwo Jima Campaign and about ~1.5 to 1 (excluding civilian) in Okinawa Campaign.

US suffer around 30,000 Casualty (KIA, WIA and MIA) in Iwo Jima vs 19,000 IJN casualty, and around 100000 Casualty vs 5-70000 IJN Casuaty in Okinawa.

There aren't more US troop killed because of the advance of Battlefield Medicine over Japan. And on the other hand, US only suffer 100,000 casualty in Okinawa simply because US out number Japanese 5 to 1 in the beginning and 10 to 1 at the end.

Russia does not out number Ukrainian that much, conventional estimation saw 70-80 BTG (80000 troop if full strength, and most western analyst said most of these BTG are at least half strength) Russian deployed in the East facing off 6 Ukrainian Brigade (about 3-40000 with TDF augment) Russia probably have 2 or 3 to 1 advantage over Ukrainian in Donbas.



Paul2 said:


> USSR has 2 completely different 152mm artillery systems, one QF semifixed, another non-fixed with bags


Not sure about that, depends on what Ukraine have.


----------



## ZeGerman

SalarHaqq said:


> And why exactly are they flying Soviet flags? To commemorate the Soviet Union's historic victory over that same regime Scholz purportedly isn't "too proud" of... In other terms, to celebrate victory in a defensive war against a western power threatening their people once again as we speak.


They are flying the flag of an empire which annexed ukraine and committed genocide on the ukranians…forgot that part? 

you deflect. My point was both putin and its military very much want ro “relive” sovjet glory/history. 
And here you went claiming russian federation is a completely seperate entity….And ukraine/east europe are just being paranoid for no reason…laughable. 


SalarHaqq said:


> Also, do I really need to recall the entire list of NSDAP members and Third Reich dignitaries recruited by the current German regime?


Puting was kgb. 
So I was talking about gestapo members. 


SalarHaqq said:


> To add insult to injury, today we have Berlin supporting neo-Nazis in Ukraine, who torture people Gestapo-style.


Berlin supports the 80% ukranians that want to have closer EU ties. The sovereignity of a nation of 44 million. 

We are talking avout tens of millions here. 
You keep framing and maligning their rights based on extreme right views of a few hundreds to max handful of thousands. 


SalarHaqq said:


> No, Germany is definitely not in a position to lecture Russia in this regard, nor anyone else for that matter.


So basically you agree that a former kgb agent openly wanting to re-create sovjet/empire past is a cause of concern? 

“But they are called russian federation now” seems like a ridiculous argument now hmmm?


SalarHaqq said:


> The Chechen wars saw Russia squashing separatists, which included head-cutting, NATO-backed foreign fighters.
> 
> In Syria, Russia was requested to intervene by the local government against NATO-sponsored head-cutting insurgents including "I"SIS.


Yes, hundred of thousands of civilian dead. But they were “all really just fascist/terrorists” we can see a recurring theme 🤣. Same with all those flattened “liberated” cities. 


SalarHaqq said:


> These are defensive wars.
> 
> So is Ukraine, although this one's partially preemptive. Just partially though, because the regime in Kiev had broken the ceasefire in the Donbas, violated two international agreements and was repressing the Russian community on its soil.


Yes the “ukraine is not really a state” talk and push for kiev is very “defensive”


SalarHaqq said:


> No, all along the 1990's Russia was entirely powerless and in a more than desolate condition. A bankrupted Russia, whose industries were being plundered by western-linked oligarchs could impossibly afford any meaningful funding of political parties in western Europe. Whereas conversely, Foreign Ministry employees in Moscow were receiving instructions on the phone from Washington.
> 
> This is what the actual historic sequence looks like.


Because you pretend the russian federation has nothing to do anymore with the past. 
Despite their kgb leader wanting to re-instate it. 

Yes when they were weak their efforts were reduced. As soon as they regained strength we see the same destabilizing (funding nationalist/seperatist in eu), opression (belarus), agression (chechnia/syria/ukraine) as we europeans are very much used to from the russians. 

An entire department of the Ukrainian judiciary staffed by Russian supporters?

Who knows what internal critiscism came up. 
Shall we handpick some judiciary statements during pro-western times from ukraine??? 


SalarHaqq said:


> This is Pakistan Defence Forum, not the German public space where anti-zionism is quasi systematically equated with judeophobia, you know.


The “zionists” are behind “everything” is a pretty recurring thinly veiled antisemitic theme. 


SalarHaqq said:


> Strawmanning all over the place. The fact remains that in Mariupol, the Azov regiment had their headquarters and was fielding thousands of fighters as per the admissions of western regimes and media, which is the point under discussion.


With only a % of azov being nazi…

Now shall we discuss the 35 million ukranians now wanting to join the EU? 


SalarHaqq said:


> Nearly half of Ukraine's population is composed of native Russian speakers. And they experienced eight long years of oppression at the hands of western-promoted Ukrainian far right extremists. They still do in regions not yet liberated, where upon the slightest expression of sympathy for the Russian Federation, they are arrested and disappear in dungeons where they are tortured in conformity with Ukrainian law (which has legalized torture much like the Bush junior regime did in the USA).


More propaganda. Thats 20 million suffering heavy oppresion/genocide. Can you show me some solid proof? 

Even in east, russia is facing stiff resistance. 
Many polls also among russian speaking population show a good portion is pro west. Facts speak louder mate…


SalarHaqq said:


> 1) Russia unlike NATO isn't simply bombing everything to smithereens.


 Please stop lying cause the heavy overall infrastructure damages from russian artillery/bombs is well documented over their many wars. 


SalarHaqq said:


> 2) The basic warfighting capability of Ukrainian armed forces is far superior to Afghanistan or the Iraq of the early 2000's.
> 3) Over-represented neo-Nazis and other far right extremists, high on captagon and morphine are engaging in a nihilistic and hopeless stand which achieves to delay Russian advances even though it fails at averting them.
> 4) The Donbas is home to the heaviest and most fortified Ukrainian defence lines.
> 5) If morale among many regular units of the Ukrainian military wasn't particularly low, they wouldn't release this many videos to voice their desperation, despite the extreme punishments they risk.
> 6) Now desertions need to be added to the mix, as acknowledged even by western propaganda media:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cases of desertion are growing among Ukrainian forces suffering significant losses in Russia's artillery onslaught, report says
> 
> 
> An intelligence report reveals Ukraine is suffering thousands of casualties and are outgunned by Putin's forces in the Donbas, says The Independent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ca.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So just watch Ukrainian forces falter little by little, they can slow down but not prevent the inevitable.


A demoralised army does not lead to 500 meter territory taken per day. It leads to collapse like we saw in iraq/afghanistan


SalarHaqq said:


> You're making it appear as if NATO never manifested any hostile intentions towards Russia. Bona fide russophobes they put in power in Kiev after overthrowing democratically elected governments via CIA-orchestrated "color revolutions" and armed mobs, we must have dreamt it all up... not.
> 
> Meanwhile some western European politicians acted in a slightly more responsible manner than the bulk of their sell-out colleagues and attempted to counteract Washington's push for confrontation with Russia. It's they to whom we owe projects such as Nordstream. However, in the end EU regimes proved that they're comfortable with vassalage and will forego their own best interests for the sake of Uncle Sam's raging lust for destruction.
> 
> As said, continued subjugation to American (and zionist) overlords will only have devastating consequences for European states, including on the security front and not least because they're actively making an enemy out of Russia when this was not necessary nor inevitable. All it would have taken was to show some fortitude and decouple their policy from the US regime. It's still not too late.


I am saying its an eb and flow of geopolitical pressure and interests from
Blocs. 

American action does not justify all counter-reactions. Especially against third party.


SalarHaqq said:


> There's no relation and I explained why. Neither of the countries destroyed by NATO in recent decades posed any real threat to the latter. So much so that they needed to concoct bogus "evidence" of WMD and other such universally debunked fairy tales. With regards to Ukraine and Russia, the situation is of course totally different.
> 
> 
> 
> Claims a MI6-handled nobody in his home in London, who is known for issuing uncorroborated statements left and right. But even the latter cannot but confess that the governmental camp's civilian to military kill ratio was no worse than 2 to 1 - in reality it was probably far more favorable even. Which, for a counter-insurgency effort in mostly urban and densely populated area fought with a lack of precision munitions is nothing out of the ordinary. The zionist regime, which benefits from a much larger stock of accurate ordinance, has killed proportionally more civilians in several aggressions it launched on the Lebanese and Palestinians.


Blahblahbal with basically amounting to “america and israel did bad things so russia can now flatten ukraine!”


SalarHaqq said:


> I don't know of any invasion of Afghanistan by Russia. As for the USSR, factor in the might and resources of the very few states assisting the Taleban in the 2000's, versus the array of powers supporting the Mujahedin against the Soviets, or else no comparison would make sense.


Millions of civilian dead vs thousands is what im talking about. Watch the population development during both.


SalarHaqq said:


> Some of them seem to have thought it'd be a good idea to seek "revenge" against a weakened Russia by joining NATO, instead of establishing strong mutually constructive ties. Now it's backfiring and rightfully so.


Every time they chose distance/sovereignity the soviets send more troops/kgb. 

But i will convey the message of an iranian to all eastern europans. They dont know what they are doing. Their experiences and knowledge of russia is clearly worthless. 


SalarHaqq said:


> Others like the current administration in Hungary still seem to be capable of independent and rational policy-making, relatively speaking.
> Doesn't need to be, there are enough credible sources attesting of it. If the USSR was given such an assurance, which it was, then in all logic it would have had to apply even more so to a much weaker Russian Federation in the 1990's and early 2000's.
> Because the neoconservative "Brookings Institutions" is a valid source now?
> 
> That sort of stuff isn't going to fly with anyone with an ounce of intellectual probity.


Gorbachov stated it…
And for your “legal” view. How much is a statement made in passing to a regume that doesnt exist anymore holding up to more recent written promises by the russian federation??

Again you pick and choose whichever angle suits you…


SalarHaqq said:


> Getting progressively encircled by a rabidly hostile military alliance whose nation-wrecking habits are there for all to see, and exhausting all peaceful diplomatic means in an attempt to reason with them, justifies pushing back if they obstinately stick to their antagonistic line.
> "Running" from windmills. Or rather, gobbled up by an expansionist, hegemonist, warmongering US regime.
> 
> Russia has been militarily intervening against former Warsaw Pact states "all the time", in a parallel universe perhaps.
> 
> 
> 
> It is initiated by one party. And that party was the regime in Kiev, end of story.
> 
> The prospect of having a hostile, notoriously oppressive and warmongering superpower station troops on one's border, and use the area as a staging ground for acts of destabilization, while one's ethno-linguistic brethren are getting shelled by local clients of that superpower provides far better justification than some trumped up "WMD" charges against an impoverished, feeble country located ten thousand of kilometers away and relying on an incapable military - not least because it was subjected to a decade of inhumane sanctions by the aggressor, as a result of which a million of its citizens perished.


More propaganda. 


SalarHaqq said:


> Outlandish contention. Between the signing of the Minsk accords and the start of the Russian special military operation, 14000 Donbas residents were slaughtered by Ukrainian regime forces, most of them civilians.


Read the un report again maybe? Playing with numbers again…its “all regime victims “ now…


SalarHaqq said:


> Ah, Iranians are bound to be propagandists while eastern Europeans leaders are incapable of objectionable policy-making and miscalculation. And if the German people in March 1933 voted the NDSAP into power, that too must have been based on their superior "know-how and experience" I suppose.


The nazi party never got majority vote.
Again a sign that maybe you do not know better then europeans about their own history….


SalarHaqq said:


> By the way, it's quite rich to be labelled a "propagandist" by one of the multiple NATO-sympathizing users who joined this forum over the past few weeks with the express purpose of posting merely in this one thread, and trying to salvage what is salvageable on the psy-ops front by means of rehashing pre-fabricated talking points conceived by western regimes, considering the debacle zio-American muppets in Ukraine are suffering.


Longer time lurker to perceive “the other side” opinion/sources. Couldnt handle the blatant russian propaganda on this matter. I have ukranian friends… it hurts me to see a european country being attacked like this.


SalarHaqq said:


> There can be no doubt that the unenviable title goes to the US regime regime, its client states and other minions. Who caused a million Iraqi civilians to perish including half a million children and newborns by imposing suffocating sanctions on that country from 1991 to 2003, which the Secretary of State brushed off as an "acceptable price" to pay on live television.
> 
> The war in Syria is also a direct consequence of zio-American meddling and deliberate engineering of a civil war.


Saddam could feed his million men army but not the children. Also medicine was not included in sanction and new evidence points to purposely inflated iraqi numbers…


SalarHaqq said:


> That's your thought process, not mine. Ukrainians and Russians are suffering because of the US empire's expansionism in Europe as well as the concrete, immediate existential threats this policy is posing to the Russian Federation. US attacks on Iraq and an endless list of other countries however serve as an illustration as to how Washington operates and what its true policy goals are, behind the fallacious facade of lies and manipulations.



Yes, let the ukranians suffer russias dreams of colonial empire, for something america did to iraq. 

We europeans have a better history with american influence by the way. A reason so many a running away from the russian “embrace”

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## Viet

Rheinmetall is ready to deliver the first of 100 Marder to Ukraine. In addition 88 Leopard 1 and multiple Leopard 2. As soon as Scholz gives his Ok the tanks can roll.








Soldaten aus dem sächsische Marienberg verladen im Januar 2020 Schützenpanzer des Typs Marder auf Güteranhänger der Eisenbahn. Bild: DPA





__





Rheinmetall hat Schützenpanzer "Marder" für Ukraine fertig - ZDFheute


Die Ukraine will die 100 "Marder", eine Ausfuhrgenehmigung der Bundesregierung fehlt. Nun hat Rheinmetall erste Fahrzeuge fertig für den Export.




amp.zdf.de


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535910768784424965

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535908185403543553

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535905205526708227


Viet said:


> Rheinmetall is ready to deliver the first of 100 Marder to Ukraine. In addition 88 Leopard 1 and multiple Leopard 2. As soon as Scholz gives his Ok the tanks can roll.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soldaten aus dem sächsische Marienberg verladen im Januar 2020 Schützenpanzer des Typs Marder auf Güteranhänger der Eisenbahn. Bild: DPA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rheinmetall hat Schützenpanzer "Marder" für Ukraine fertig - ZDFheute
> 
> 
> Die Ukraine will die 100 "Marder", eine Ausfuhrgenehmigung der Bundesregierung fehlt. Nun hat Rheinmetall erste Fahrzeuge fertig für den Export.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amp.zdf.de



Not gonna happen. Leopard 2 is Germany's cash crop. Leopard 2 blown up in Donbas is bad for Germany's sales. Maybe Leopard 1 but definitely not Leopard 2.

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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535910768784424965
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535908185403543553
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535905205526708227
> 
> 
> Not gonna happen. Leopard 2 is Germany's cash crop. Leopard 2 blown up in Donbas is bad for Germany's sales. Maybe Leopard 1 but definitely not Leopard 2.


Wait and see
Scholz, Marcon and Dragi will visit Kiew. I think they will give ok to heavy weapon delivery and EU membership.
Putin meanwhile realizes this is not a 3 day war but a war of attrition. That will exhaust resources both sides. Ukraine has the West. Putin only has his own propaganda. The war costs Russia one billion USD per day, hundreds of deaths per day. Putin needs a constant money flows from selling oil and gas.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535921452712591360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535918083679866882


Viet said:


> Wait and see
> Scholz, Marcon and Dragi will visit Kiew. I think they will give ok to heavy weapon delivery and EU membership.
> Putin meanwhile realizes this is not a 3 day war but a war of attrition. That will exhaust resources both sides. Ukraine has the West. Putin only has his own propaganda. The war costs Russia one billion USD per day, hundreds of deaths per day. Putin needs a constant money flows from selling oil and gas.



This is a permanent war with no end just like covid is a permanent pandemic with no end. 100 years from now they will still be going on.


----------



## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535921452712591360
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535918083679866882
> 
> 
> This is a permanent war with no end just like covid is a permanent pandemic with no end. 100 years from now they will still be going on.


In middle age, the war between France and England last 116 years. The war between Vietnam and Champa over 400 years. Who knows this Russia-Ukraine war will last longer. Zelinskki says he won’t cede territories nor surrender.

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## MeFishToo

Viet said:


> In middle age, the war between France and England last 116 years. The war between Vietnam and Champa over 400 years. Who knows this Russia-Ukraine war will last longer.


If hopefully ends with Putin.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> In middle age, the war between France and England last 116 years. The war between Vietnam and Champa over 400 years. Who knows this Russia-Ukraine war will last longer. Zelinskki says he won’t cede territories nor surrender.



The war is permanent. Longer than how long Zelensky lives.


----------



## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> The New York Times reported that Ukraine citizens in Kherson gave coordinates of a Russian base of operations to Ukrainian artillery about 12 miles from Kherson, and the base was completely destroyed killing about 200 Russian soldiers and mercenaries.
> 
> This was only a few days ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Russians are losing at least 200-300 soldiers per day. Their losses are catastrophic.



About the same as Ukrainian losses if you take into account reporting bias.

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## SalarHaqq

ZeGerman said:


> They are flying the flag of an empire which annexed ukraine and committed genocide on the ukranians…forgot that part?



But that's not what Russia is commemorating nor celebrating about the USSR. Only the victory over German Nazis is. Stop putting a spin on reality to suit the russophobic NATO narrative.



ZeGerman said:


> you deflect. My point was both putin and its military very much want ro “relive” sovjet glory/history.



All I did was to highlight how baseless it is to treat the presence of Soviet flags as supposed proof thereof, seeing how these flags are merely flown in reference to the defeat of Germany at the hands of the USSR during WW2, and nothing else.

Your allegations about President Putin seeking to restore the borders of the USSR are propaganda, as the Kremlin never declared to be pursuing this goal.



ZeGerman said:


> And here you went claiming russian federation is a completely seperate entity….And ukraine/east europe are just being paranoid for no reason…laughable.



Of course I did, and let me reiterate my insistence of the veracity of this statement.



ZeGerman said:


> Puting was kgb.
> So I was talking about gestapo members.



First of all, the KGB was the main intelligence service of the USSR, tasked among other things with foreign intelligence and counter-espionage, unlike the Gestapo. And as a matter of fact, Vladimir Putin was working for the foreign intelligence branch of the KGB (based in Dresden for some time), as you perfectly know.

Secondly, this is how the discussion thread developed:

- Me: you are attributing Soviet policies to Russia, by that token you may also hold the current German regime accountable for the horrendous consequences of the Third Reich's invasion of the USSR.

- You: is Scholz proud of the Third Reich? Does he want to emulate its policies? Was he a former member of the Gestapo? Because Putin used to be a KGB officer.

- Me: the current German regime took in many Nazis, including a leading military intelligence officer, Reinhard Gehlen, who presided over "democratic" Germany's foreign intelligence service until 1968.

Bottom line is this: if you're going to use Putin's KGB history as "evidence" for the notion that there's a continuity between the policies of the USSR and those of the Russian Federation, then the fact that a former Nazi intelligence bigwig like Gehlen (who was responsible for the one front where German forces committed most of their atrocities) headed the BND for over twenty years, would have to be considered as evidence that the Federal Republic of Germany is prolonging Nazi policy.

Simple as that, and there's no flaw in this logical equivalence. So if Putin having worked for the KGB's foreign intelligence department is "proof" that present day Russia is trying to revive the USSR, then Gehlen having led the BND for several decades is proof that Berlin is hoping to repeat the Nazi aggression and crimes against the USSR. You can't have it both ways, nor attempt to wiggle your way out with some irrelevant cross-reference to the Gestapo.



ZeGerman said:


> Berlin supports the 80% ukranians that want to have closer EU ties. The sovereignity of a nation of 44 million.



Source: a regime which has been suppressing its Russian-speaking community i.e. close to half the population for eight full years. Which has been shelling Russian towns in the Donbas, nabbing, detaining and torturing countless local Russians in contravention of basic rights and rule of the law.



ZeGerman said:


> So basically you agree that a former kgb agent openly wanting to re-create sovjet/empire past is a cause of concern?



What? Read again, and kindly refrain from inverting the meaning of my statements next time.

And you know what's really a cause for concern? When a state whose foreign intelligence service happens to have been founded and presided over by a Nazi implicated up to the neck in a genocidal and criminal military campaign against the Soviet Union, is now trying to encroach itself on former Soviet territory, openly taking aim at Russia with the help of local nationalists who are considering the main native collaborator of Nazi Germany as a source of inspiration.



ZeGerman said:


> Yes, hundred of thousands of civilian dead. But they were “all really just fascist/terrorists” we can see a recurring theme. Same with all those flattened “liberated” cities.



Show me where "hundreds of thousands of civilians" were killed by Russian forces in Ukraine, then we can talk.



ZeGerman said:


> Yes the “ukraine is not really a state” talk and push for kiev is very “defensive”



Ukraine is a state dominated by people who hold in esteem a collaborator of the Third Reich, and who were suppressing a local Russian community. Were allowing the US regime to run secret bio-labs on their soil. Were seeking to join an anti-Russian military alliance encircling Russia on its western flank.

But since "defensive war" in your book would rather apply to the methodical destructions of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Sudan and so on at the hands of NATO regimes, I'd recommend familiarizing yourself with the definition of the concept prior to making use of it.



ZeGerman said:


> Because you pretend the russian federation has nothing to do anymore with the past.
> Despite their kgb leader wanting to re-instate it.



Pointing to the fact that Russia can't be held to account for crimes allegedly committed by the USSR.

President Putin wishing to "reinstate" the USSR is a NATO propaganda theme. Not grounded in reality whatsoever.



ZeGerman said:


> Yes when they were weak their efforts were reduced. As soon as they regained strength we see the same destabilizing (funding nationalist/seperatist in eu), opression (belarus), agression (chechnia/syria/ukraine) as we europeans are very much used to from the russians.



No, when Russia was weak NATO started moving towards its borders. Interfering in its internal affairs. Sponsoring head-cutting, "I"SIS style terrorists to lead separatist campaigns across Russia's Caucasus region. As we're very much used to from western regimes.



> Who knows what internal critiscism came up.
> Shall we handpick some judiciary statements during pro-western times from ukraine???



Show me that "internal criticism". "Who knows" isn't an argument.



ZeGerman said:


> The “zionists” are behind “everything” is a pretty recurring thinly veiled antisemitic theme.



There seems to a be reading comprehension issue on your part, because I don't remember making that statement.



ZeGerman said:


> With only a % of azov being nazi…



Azov's a neo-Nazi group, plain and simple.



ZeGerman said:


> Now shall we discuss the 35 million ukranians now wanting to join the EU?



According to the regime which has zero problems with the municipal council of its capital city chanting praises of Stepan Bandera while at the same time claiming to be a champion of liberal "democracy", you mean. Nah sorry, you can go discuss figures published by such a regime with fellow NATO sympathizers susceptible of falling for the hoax. Objective, serious observers don't usually take statements by such regimes at face value.



ZeGerman said:


> More propaganda. Thats 20 million suffering heavy oppresion/genocide. Can you show me some solid proof?



Arresting and mistreating people for expressing sympathy towards a neighboring country (which I pointed to) is "genocide"? If you say so, why not.

This said the Associated Press, a US news agency, made a video report about Ukrainian citizens getting arrested by the military for harmless actions such as commenting favorably about President Putin on "social media". This was posted here in this thread as well.



ZeGerman said:


> Even in east, russia is facing stiff resistance.



As explained, in the Donbas region Ukrainian forces established their main defensive lines, heavily fortified and manned by close to a hundred thousand troops including the bulk of their die hard fanatic neo-Nazis. Has nothing to do with local public opinion. This is why the speed of Russia's progress in the south of Ukraine was much faster.



ZeGerman said:


> Many polls also among russian speaking population show a good portion is pro west. Facts speak louder mate…



I'm familiar with the way in which regimes like the one in Kiev, or organisations with links to it conduct sub-standard "polls".



ZeGerman said:


> Please stop lying cause the heavy overall infrastructure damages from russian artillery/bombs is well documented over their many wars.



We weren't talking about "many wars" at this specific juncture of the discussion but about Ukraine. And the only thing that's been documented, is NATO's heavy handed approach when compared to Russia's conduct of operations in the present conflict.



ZeGerman said:


> A demoralised army does not lead to 500 meter territory taken per day. It leads to collapse like we saw in iraq/afghanistan



Since you don't appear to have paid attention to and/or didn't read what was said, repetition should be in order:

1) Russia unlike NATO isn't simply bombing everything to smithereens in its Ukrainian campaign.
2) The basic warfighting capability of Ukrainian armed forces is far superior to Afghanistan or the Iraq of the early 2000's.
3) Over-represented neo-Nazis and other far right extremists, high on captagon and morphine are engaging in a nihilistic and hopeless stand which achieves to delay Russian advances even though it fails at averting them.
4) The Donbas is home to the heaviest and most fortified Ukrainian defensive lines.
5) If morale among many regular units of the Ukrainian military wasn't particularly low, they wouldn't release this many videos to voice their desperation, despite the extreme punishments they risk.
6) Now desertions need to be added to the mix, as acknowledged even by western propaganda media:








Cases of desertion are growing among Ukrainian forces suffering significant losses in Russia's artillery onslaught, report says


An intelligence report reveals Ukraine is suffering thousands of casualties and are outgunned by Putin's forces in the Donbas, says The Independent.




ca.yahoo.com







ZeGerman said:


> I am saying its an eb and flow of geopolitical pressure and interests from
> Blocs.
> 
> American action does not justify all counter-reactions. Especially against third party.



Russian action is a direct response to hostile US encroachment on its borders.



ZeGerman said:


> Blahblahbal with basically amounting to “america and israel did bad things so russia can now flatten ukraine!”



Not my problem if you fail to apprehend the content of what you're (presumably) reading.



ZeGerman said:


> Millions of civilian dead vs thousands is what im talking about. Watch the population development during both.



Addressed already.

For millions of dead civilians, look no further than Iraq under the US boot.



ZeGerman said:


> Every time they chose distance/sovereignity the soviets send more troops/kgb.



Nobody cares about the Soviets in this context.



ZeGerman said:


> But i will convey the message of an iranian to all eastern europans. They dont know what they are doing. Their experiences and knowledge of russia is clearly worthless.



No need, but what a pity you weren't born earlier so as to convey your wisdom to Germans in 1933 and prevent them from voting the NSDAP into power. This way, you may have sounded a tad more credible trying to put across the idea that people aren't susceptible to manipulation, that they always have a perfect grasp of political realities and of what the ideal choice for them is.



ZeGerman said:


> Gorbachov stated it…



The Gorbachev Foundation for Socio-Economic and Political Studies begs to differ.

___

Gorbachev blasts NATO eastward expansion​
Former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev has criticized NATO's eastward expansion and the failure by Western powers to keep their promise not to deploy military bases near Russia's borders.

Gorbachev said in an interview with Germany's Bild newspaper published on Thursday that Western Germany, the United States and other powers had pledged after Germany's reunification in 1990 that "NATO would not move a centimeter to the east."

Gorbachev said the Americans had failed to fulfill the promise and the Germans had also turned a blind eye.

"They probably rubbed their hands rejoicing at having played a trick on the Russians," the former Soviet leader told the paper, adding that this had led to Russia's disillusionment with post-Cold War relations with the West.

NATO has enlarged since 1999, admitting three ex-Soviet Baltic republics and four Communist-bloc states in Eastern Europe. The membership was more recently increased on Wednesday, when Albania and Croatia formally joined the alliance.

The expansion has strained relations between the West and Russia, which is concerned by the new military bases emerging along its borders.

Last December, European NATO members led by Germany blocked U.S.-backed bids by Ukraine and Georgia to join programs leading to membership in the military alliance, but the ex-Soviet states were told they would eventually be allowed to join.

Nobel Peace Prize winner Gorbachev is respected in the United States and Europe for his role in ending the Cold War, but criticized by some in Russia for the reforms that led to the collapse of the Soviet Union and the ensuing chaos.



https://www.gorby.ru/en/presscenter/publication/show_26613/





ZeGerman said:


> And for your “legal” view. How much is a statement made in passing to a regume that doesnt exist anymore holding up to more recent written promises by the russian federation??



The pledge made by the USA and German regimes is one which concerns the elementary security of the Russian Federation. It's not as if preset day Russia is immune to imperialist NATO mischief and aggression by virtue of some derogatory supernatural instance.

Now Russia passively stood by as NATO expansionists moved closer and closer to her borders. Watched as they began increasingly threatening her security and territorial integrity. This went on for nearly two decades. In parallel, Moscow tried to have its legitimate concerns recognized through peaceful diplomatic means, through talks and negotiations. To no avail. Now it's pushback time, because no power in this world, especially those wielding their might in a particularly irresponsible manner, can get away with everything all the time.



ZeGerman said:


> Again you pick and choose whichever angle suits you…



Gratuitous contention.



ZeGerman said:


> More propaganda.



Facts. Cold hard facts.



ZeGerman said:


> Read the un report again maybe? Playing with numbers again…its “all regime victims “ now…



I stand corrected: close to 14000 slaughtered in the Donbas, among which 3300 civilians as a result of the Kiev regime's violation of the Minsk agreements and its decision to restart the war. Not that much less tragic.



ZeGerman said:


> The nazi party never got majority vote.
> Again a sign that maybe you do not know better then europeans about their own history….



You're the one who brought up this gibberish about non-Europeans and their acquaintance with European history in the first place. Then you keep referencing my nationality in a repeated ad hominem manner, portraying it as sort of a prohibitive factor when it comes to commenting on European affairs.

And now you're rambling on about whether or not I know European history "better than Europeans" themselves, with "Europeans" being employed as a generic term. What's this even supposed to mean? I made no such claim, for I tend to avoid funny generalizations. There being several hundreds of millions of Europeans, some are bound to be more knowledgeable than I, while others won't. Because I studied European history for long enough to be familiar with relevant data you outright assumed I cannot be.

What this shows though, is that you're obviously having issues with the very fact that a non-European is commenting on the history of the continent. Which may possibly betray a xenophobic sentiment, but guess what, you'll have to get used to it.

Now as for your statement that the NSDAP never received a majority vote, you're twisting my words. I stated the Nazi party was voted into power, meaning that it was thanks to the plurality of votes they received at the March 1933 Reichstag election that they managed to get in control of the government. To claim otherwise would be like pretending that the current coalition administration in Berlin wasn't voted into office by the German people because no single one of its participants obtained more than 50% of votes.



ZeGerman said:


> Longer time lurker to perceive “the other side” opinion/sources. Couldnt handle the blatant russian propaganda on this matter. I have ukranian friends… it hurts me to see a european country being attacked like this.



Voices of truth aren't going anywhere. No matter how many more hours you're willing to spend on this discussion, facts debunking NATO propaganda will keep being added to this thread and not just by me.



ZeGerman said:


> Saddam could feed his million men army but not the children. Also medicine was not included in sanction and new evidence points to purposely inflated iraqi numbers…



All of which was known to the US, yet Washington would refrain from loosening sanctions accordingly, even in a targeted manner. The so-called "food for oil" program imposed on Iraq under US directives was supposed to prevent just that. The US Secretary of State is on the record for endorsing the toll among Iraqi infants. They saw what was going on, had the power to remedy the situation but being the criminals they are, they were fine with it.



ZeGerman said:


> Yes, let the ukranians suffer russias dreams of colonial empire, for something america did to iraq.
> 
> We europeans have a better history with american influence by the way. A reason so many a running away from the russian “embrace”



Again, failure to address what you're responding to.

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## SalarHaqq

Apollon said:


> My analysis is absolute on track. I know Iran amigo. One of my girlfriends parents came from Shiraz.



Doesn't provide anything other than anecdotal tidbits and the subjective view of one out of some 87 million people, essentially.



Apollon said:


> Its a deeply insecure country witz extreme complexes of humilation.



I don't know how these attributes could possibly apply to an abstract entity such as a country, but on my part there's no feeling of "humiliation" whatsoever. The exact opposite is the case, I'm actually boundlessly enthusiastic and thankful for being a citizen of Iran at this particular juncture where the Islamic Republic happens to be one of only a handful of nation-states brave enough to resist one of the most oppressive and vicious empires in history. As should be apparent from my contribution on here.



Apollon said:


> The smart people left long ago and those who are educated run to the west as well. What is left behind is plebs, farmers, mullahs and crazed nationalists.



Sure, and this probably explains Iran's steady and well documented ascendance in scientific output and research, doesn't it. As said, relentless disinformation has taken its toll on your understanding of contemporary Iran. By the way, the Iranian emigrant community is hardly more numerous than the German one, since as many as 3,4 million Germans have chosen to leave their country and settle abroad (and they generally enjoy above average education levels).

However this is off topic, so kindly don't address it here.

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## Corax

sammuel said:


> Come on , Ukrainians are fighting for there homes ,



Yep, just like how the Palestinians are fighting for their homes against the Israeli Zionist occupiers.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535910768784424965
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535908185403543553
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535905205526708227
> 
> 
> Not gonna happen. Leopard 2 is Germany's cash crop. Leopard 2 blown up in Donbas is bad for Germany's sales. Maybe Leopard 1 but definitely not Leopard 2.



In the first link, looks like an M777 howitzer being destroyed?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Corax said:


> Yep, just like how the Palestinians are fighting for their homes against the Israeli Zionist occupiers.
> 
> 
> 
> In the first link, looks like an M777 howitzer being destroyed?



Probably. I guess most M777 were destroyed in their storage areas by cruise missiles rather than on battlefields.

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## ZeGerman

SalarHaqq said:


> But that's not what Russia is commemorating nor celebrating about the USSR. Only the victory over German Nazis is. Stop spinning reality to suit the russophobic NATO narrative.


The indoctrinated russians see a “fight against the nazis”
The ukranians see a new invasion from their former butchers. 


SalarHaqq said:


> All I did was to highlight how baseless your attempt at citing the presence of Soviet flags as supposed "proof" thereof is, seeing how these flags are merely flown in reference to the defeat of Germany at the hands of the USSR during WW2, and nothing else.
> 
> Your allegations about President Putin seeking to restore the borders of the USSR are propaganda, as the Kremlin never declared to be pursuing this fictive goal.











Putin: Soviet collapse a 'genuine tragedy'


In his annual state of the nation address on Monday, Russian President Vladimir Putin called the collapse of the Soviet empire “the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.”




www.nbcnews.com










Putin compares himself to Peter the Great in quest to take back Russian lands | Vladimir Putin | The Guardian


President draws parallel with tsar who waged war on Sweden and says campaign in Ukraine stems from ‘basic values’




amp.theguardian.com













What Putin Gets Wrong About Ukraine's Statehood


Experts say Putin’s remarks are intended to justify Russian claims over Ukraine




time.com





The writing is on the wall…atleast for ukraine being under very real threat of annexation….


SalarHaqq said:


> - Me: you are attributing Soviet policies to Russia, by that token you may also hold the current German regime accountable for the horrendous consequences of the Third Reich's invasion of the USSR.
> 
> - You: is Scholz proud of the Third Reich? Does he want to emulate its policies? Was he a former member of the Gestapo? Because Putin used to be a former KGB officer.
> 
> - Me: the current German regime took in many Nazis, including a leading military intelligence officer, Gehlen, who presided over Germany's foreign intelligence service until 1968.
> 
> Bottom line is this: if you're going to use Putin's past as a member of the KGB as "evidence" for the notion that there's a continuity between the policies of the USSR and those of the Russian Federation, then the fact that a former Nazi intelligence bigwig like Gehlen (who was responsible for the one front where the Wehrmacht committed most of its atrocties) headed the BND for over twenty years, would have to be considered as evidence that the Federal Republic of Germany is prolonging Nazi policy.
> 
> Simple as that, and there's no flaw in this logical equivalence whatsoever. So if Putin having worked for the KGB's foreign intelligence department is "proof" that present day Russia is trying to revive the USSR, then Gehlen having led the BND for several decades is proof that Berlin is hoping to repeat the Nazi aggression and crimes against the USSR. You can't have it both ways, nor attempt to wiggle your way out with some irrelevant cross-reference to the Gestapo.


Its a multitude of things. Like putin thinking the soviet collapse was a catastrophe, like russia being in denial about sovjet misdoings (holodomir/warsaw). This all adds up to a situation that there is very little reason to assume the russian federation is an entirely different beast from the past. 

And look…trying to annex a coubtry again. What a suprise. No wonder sweden and finland had enough. 

You are just playing with semantics. 
As If tomorrow america would rename itself and put a million army next to iran i would be calling you paranoid to raise eyebrows…”its a new regime. All the past is wiped out from record!”


SalarHaqq said:


> Source: a regime which has been suppressing its Russian-speaking community i.e. close to half the population for eight full years. Which has been shelling Russian towns in the Donbas, nabbing, detaining and torturing countless local Russians in contravention of basic rights and rule of the law.


Childsplay compared to russian behaviour. 


SalarHaqq said:


> What? Read again, and kindly refrain from inverting the meaning of my statements next time.
> 
> And you know what's really a cause for concern? When a state whose foreign intelligence service happens to have been founded and presided over by a Nazi implicated up to the neck in a genocidal and criminal military campaign against the Soviet Union, is now trying to encroach itself on former Soviet territory, openly taking aim at Russia with the help of local nationalists to whom the main native collaborator of Nazi Germany is a source of inspiration.


Thats the russian framing yes. Instead we are helping millions of refugees and millions of ukranians who just want their sovereignity. Which russia is trying to erase, against signed promises…


SalarHaqq said:


> Show me where "hundreds of thousands of civilians" were killed by Russian forces in Ukraine, then talk.


Was talking about chechnia, syria. 
Ukraine is not on that level yet but casualties are mounting.


SalarHaqq said:


> Ukraine is a state dominated by people who hold in esteem a collaborator of the Third Reich, who were suppressing a local Russian community. Were allowing the US regime to run secret bio-labs on their soil. Were seeking to join an anti-Russian military alliance encircling Russia on its western flank.
> 
> But since "defensive war" in your book would rather apply to the methodical destruction of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Sudan and so on at the hands of NATO regimes, I'd recommend to familiarize yourself with the definition of the concept prior to making use of it.


Its a defensive alliance. Most eastern european countries joined this as a result of past russian agression and annexation. 

You cannot rewrite the past iranian. 


SalarHaqq said:


> Pointing to the fact that Russia can't be held to account for crimes allegedly committed by the USSR.


You use sovjet time vague verbal promises and acts (nato expanding) when it suits you, and pretend that sovjet past doesnt exist when it doesnt suit you. 

Its quite apparent….


SalarHaqq said:


> Show me that "internal criticism". "Who knows" isn't an argument.


You use the ukranian court findings during pro-russian dominated times when it suits you. And its part of zionist manipulation when not (like yanukovich being judged a traitor)


SalarHaqq said:


> Azov's a neo-Nazi group, plain and simple.


Not that simple
A unit between 900-2500 members. Most nationalist with a minority holding fascist ideas. 

This is ofcourse no justification to invade to “denazify” ukraine with its 44 million population. 
Russian claims ate widely ridiculed…you parotting the “nazis everywhere” angle is equally laughable. 

Do i need to post videos of russians gunning down civilians? Denazification in progress? 


SalarHaqq said:


> According to the regime which has zero problems with the municipal council of its capital city chanting praises of Stepan Bandera, you mean. Nah sorry, you can go discuss figures published by such a regime with fellow NATO sympathizers susceptible of falling for the hoax. Objective, serious observers don't usually take statements by such regimes at face value.


You have no issue with taking russian statements at face value. 
No issue with choosing what parts of history to use and what not. What parts of promises “count” and what not. 
You dont have a semblance of objectivity.

Every day ukraine is resisting further damages your propaganda that the vast majority of russian speaking ukranians were heavily oppressed and eager for “liberation”. 
You must have thought this was was gonna be over in a week huh? 




SalarHaqq said:


> I'm familiar with the way in which regimes like the one in Kiev, or organisations with links to it conduct sub-standard "polls".


You prefer your russian polls i understand.

12 million refugees to “zelenski nazi regime” zones or the “nazi nato” . Hmm thats a lot of ukranian nazis! Again. Just wait. Cold hard numbers..cold hard reality is cracking your deluded propaganda frame day by day. 


SalarHaqq said:


> We weren't talking about "many wars" at this specific juncture of the discussion but about Ukraine. And the only thing that's been documented, is NATO's heavy handed approach when compared to Russia's conduct of operations in the present conflict.


Hahaha grozny, aleppo, mariopol is russias gentle approach? How far from reality have you deluded yourself?


SalarHaqq said:


> Since you're visibly experiencing comprehension issues at this point, and/or didn't read what was said, repetition will be in order:
> 
> 1) Russia unlike NATO isn't simply bombing everything to smithereens.
> 2) The basic warfighting capability of Ukrainian armed forces is far superior to Afghanistan or the Iraq of the early 2000's.
> 3) Over-represented neo-Nazis and other far right extremists, high on captagon and morphine are engaging in a nihilistic and hopeless stand which achieves to delay Russian advances even though it fails at averting them.
> 4) The Donbas is home to the heaviest and most fortified Ukrainian defence lines.
> 5) If morale among many regular units of the Ukrainian military wasn't particularly low, they wouldn't release this many videos to voice their desperation, despite the extreme punishments they risk.
> 6) Now desertions need to be added to the mix, as acknowledged even by western propaganda media:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cases of desertion are growing among Ukrainian forces suffering significant losses in Russia's artillery onslaught, report says
> 
> 
> An intelligence report reveals Ukraine is suffering thousands of casualties and are outgunned by Putin's forces in the Donbas, says The Independent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ca.yahoo.com


Russia has a massive military advantage over ukraine. 
Now 20 million ukranians are “supposedly” dying to rejoin russia. 
Ukranian morale regular units (which is vast majority btw) is supposedly at an extreme low. 

Yes…ofcourse such a war takes 100 days without end in sight yet….your propaganda shatters in front of situation on the ground.

Russia has been claiming the front would collapse and the donbass army trapped in a pocket for months now. What would be expected with shattered morale…
Instead they are now fighting 3 weeks for severodonetsk. 



SalarHaqq said:


> Russian action is a direct response to hostile US encroachment on its borders.


A man carries responsibilities for the actions they choose. 

Its not fucking dominos with all fault landing on the one pushing the first stones and the others had “no choice but to fall”.

This invasion is a disgrace. 


SalarHaqq said:


> For millions of dead civilians, look no further than Iraq under the US boot.


Dont deflect. Just admit (sovjet) russia was many times more heavy handed in afghanistan


SalarHaqq said:


> Nobody cares about the Soviets in this context.


Well the russians never admitted any fault. And now happily continue their actions of flattening cities and bombing hospitals (also in enormous numbers compared to even america)


SalarHaqq said:


> No need, but what a pity you weren't born earlier so as to convey your wisdom to Germans in 1933 and prevent them from voting the NSDAP into power. This way, you would come across a tad more credibly trying to sell the idea that people aren't susceptible to manipulation, and that they always have a perfect grasp of political realities and of what the ideal choice for them is.


Maybe iran should be part of a sunni dictatorship. Much more “stable” then this shia/sunni thing. You like stable dictators so im sure you are all for it. 


SalarHaqq said:


> The Gorbachev Foundation for Socio-Economic and Political Studies begs to differ.


And in another interview he had a different tune.

Besides, “nobody cares about the sovjets” right? And written promises (especially more recent and with the federation) supercede verbal statements. 

Hell you know how many statements the sovjets broke back then hahahaha. 

But no. Lets handpick this particular one as the “one ring to rule all promises”? 



SalarHaqq said:


> ___
> The pledge made by the USA and German regimes is one which concerns the elementary security of the Russian Federation as well. It's not as if the latter is immune to imperialist NATO mischief and aggression by virtue of some bizarre supernatural occurrence.
> 
> Now Russia passively stood by as NATO expansionists moved closer and closer to her borders, and began increasingly threatening her security and territorial integrity. This went on for nearly two decades. In parallel, Moscow tried to have its legitimate concerns recognized through peaceful diplomatic means, talks and negotiations. To no avail. Now it's pushback time, because no power in this world, especially those which wield their might in a particularly irresponsible manner, will get away with everything all the time.


Yes. Thats exactly what the ukranians think after being used as toiletpaper too often by the russians. 

Nato is a defensive alliance by the way. 
Europe had record low military spending and readiness. There was little threat to russia and russia could have chosen diplomacy. 



SalarHaqq said:


> I stand corrected: close to 14000 slaughtered in the Donbas, among which 3300 as a result of the regime's violation of the Minsk agreements and its decision to restart the war. Hardly less tragic.


Corrected indeed. And both sides performed multiple violations. Russia..i mean the “seperatists” causing the brunt of the civilian casualties. 

Ofcourse this is very thin ice to justify a war of agression on. “Genocide” who are the russians kidding…


SalarHaqq said:


> and, I did study European history for long enough to be familiar with relevant data you assumed I'm not.


Very selective reading of that history might i add. 

So much as to come to the conclusion that eastern europeans and ukranians shouldnt be so paranoid and embrace russias warm motherly bosom. 



SalarHaqq said:


> What this shows though, is that you're obviously having issues with the very fact that a non-European is commenting on the history of the continent. Which betrays sort of a xenophobic sentiment, but guess what, you'll have to get used to it.


I just think its presumptious to think you “know better” then millions of eastern europeans living through russian occupation and pressure. 

In a way you think like an american…
They “knew better” too in trying to reshape the middle east and forcefully install democracy


SalarHaqq said:


> All of which was known to the US, yet it would refrain from loosening sanctions accordingly. The so-called "food for oil" program imposed on Iraq under US directives was supposed to prevent just that. The US Secretary of State is on the record for endorsing the toll among Iraqi infants. They saw what was going on, had the power to remedy the situation but they were fine with it.


I am no fan of america. 
Its misconduct Has little to do justifying russia trying to annex ukraine though.

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## jhungary

Report stated Ukrainian force have pushed Russia back to within 20 KM from Northern edge of Kherson City. Putting Kherson city in direct artillery range for the first time since fall, geolocated report put Ukrainian force in Kyselivka , some 15 km from Kherson City.

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## Viet

MeFishToo said:


> If hopefully ends with Putin.


Putin is like a stalker. He runs after a girl (Ukraine). That girl refuses he runs amok. Putin becomes a murder.


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## Flight of falcon




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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Su-25 artillery smashing jets


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535985752336629760


jhungary said:


> Report stated Ukrainian force have pushed Russia back to within 20 KM from Northern edge of Kherson City. Putting Kherson city in direct artillery range for the first time since fall, geolocated report put Ukrainian force in Kyselivka , some 15 km from Kherson City.



Kherson is no go for Ukraine. Ukraine will never have Kherson back.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535995478831153155

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## Apollon

jhungary said:


> Report stated Ukrainian force have pushed Russia back to within 20 KM from Northern edge of Kherson City. Putting Kherson city in direct artillery range for the first time since fall, geolocated report put Ukrainian force in Kyselivka , some 15 km from Kherson City.



Excellent move, getting Khersom back is a huge thing. Pussolini uses Kherson alot for his propaganda. The prime target must be to take Kherson back.


----------



## 925boy

mulj said:


> I am reading news that Ukraina is started to suffer from lack of ammunition, especially artilerry rounds, here in Bosnia we have huge factory which produced Warsaw pact standard ammunition, also able to produce by NATo standards but there are no orders by EU countries of for resupplying UAF, if there is organized effort by NATO that factory should already work in 4 shifts due necessity for field artillery units of UA.


producing ammunition in your factory is a very different subject from: 1) Paying for it - NATO's bill for a losing war keeps increasing, and 2) Supplying the Ukrainian forces that need it- this is the real issue- Russia is mostly evaporating NATO's equipment sent to Ukraine before it reaches the Ukranian army in east Ukraine. 

stupid NATO is now at a dead end because Russia controls the Ukrainian battlefield. OH WELL!

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## The SC



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## 925boy

mulj said:


> indeed, that is why my country should support Ukraina with all its means.


damn, when will Bosnia actually smarten up though?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535947239176163330

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## 925boy

but you and i already know Russia will intercept and destroy most of those equipments before they reach the Ukrainian forces that need them. This war has been going on for months and folks arent learning?? smh


kingQamaR said:


> Given the scarcity of of ex-Soviet artillery ammunition, it is likely that a number of Western artillery pieces and ammunition will be sent, because no one in the West manufactures artillery ammunition to Soviet/Russian calibers (152mm & 122mm). Instead, they will send in SP and towed Western 155mm artillery systems for which plenty of ammunition is available

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> Given the scarcity of of ex-Soviet artillery ammunition, it is likely that a number of Western artillery pieces and ammunition will be sent, because no one in the West manufactures artillery ammunition to Soviet/Russian calibers (152mm & 122mm). Instead, they will send in SP and towed Western 155mm artillery systems for which plenty of ammunition is available.



Ammo is expensive in the west. Only a few million 155 mm ammo in America. Won't even last a month in Donbas.

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## ZeGerman

Also i noticed the “85% world supports russia” lie being repeated lately.

Lets check who really supports russia:








Infographic: Where Russia's Attack on Ukraine Was Condemned


This chart shows countries/regional economies by official stance on Russian invasion of Ukraine.




www.google.nl






Five nations - Russia, Syria, North Korea, Eritrea and Belarus - voted against the resolution. Four more - Iran, Nicaragua, Venezuela and Cuba - did not vote or abstained, but have on their own published pro-Russian statements.

Its a sad little club really. 
Are these the faces of the new “multipolar” order humanity should look forward to?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535959175666221062

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## mulj

925boy said:


> producing ammunition in your factory is a very different subject from: 1) Paying for it - NATO's bill for a losing war keeps increasing, and 2) Supplying the Ukrainian forces that need it- this is the real issue- Russia is mostly evaporating NATO's equipment sent to Ukraine before it reaches the Ukranian army in east Ukraine.
> 
> stupid NATO is now at a dead end because Russia controls the Ukrainian battlefield. OH WELL!


Well that is above my paygrade, of course that would not be free but it is just idea for partially ammunition problem solving.


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## ZeGerman

The SC said:


> View attachment 853412


Unfortunately quite likely (ukraine should also perform a fighting retreat)

Donbass province then will be next. Though that should take months. 

The question is…is that ukranian reserve/conscription army building up and amounting to an actual force??

If not…then russia will entrench and probably eventually succeed in annexing these two provinces (including cherson and more land in south).


----------



## SalarHaqq

ZeGerman said:


> The indoctrinated russians see a “fight against the nazis”
> The ukranians see a new invasion from their former butchers.



Russians can see how the Ukrainian regime has made russhophobic Nazi references socially acceptable (while largely sidelining other aspects of Nation-Socialist discourse), and they react accordingly to this provocative affront.

Indoctrinated Ukrainians are discovering that doing the west's dirty work, immediately threatening Russia's border security and depriving local Russian communities of their rights will come at a steep price. Russia's no walkover.

Here, fixed it.



ZeGerman said:


> Putin: Soviet collapse a 'genuine tragedy'
> 
> 
> In his annual state of the nation address on Monday, Russian President Vladimir Putin called the collapse of the Soviet empire “the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin compares himself to Peter the Great in quest to take back Russian lands | Vladimir Putin | The Guardian
> 
> 
> President draws parallel with tsar who waged war on Sweden and says campaign in Ukraine stems from ‘basic values’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amp.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Putin Gets Wrong About Ukraine's Statehood
> 
> 
> Experts say Putin’s remarks are intended to justify Russian claims over Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> time.com



Couldn't find a statement where Putin declares he intends to restore the borders of the USSR in those sources.



ZeGerman said:


> The writing is on the wall…atleast for ukraine being under very real threat of annexation….



The USSR was far wider than just Russia and Ukraine. As for Ukraine, I indicated how the regime in Kiev sabotaged peaceful resolution, and how the security stakes for Russia are on a completely different level than what the US was facing when it decided to bomb Iraq, Syria, Libya etc.



ZeGerman said:


> Its a multitude of things. Like putin thinking the soviet collapse was a catastrophe, like russia being in denial about sovjet misdoings (holodomir/warsaw). This all adds up to a situation that there is very little reason to assume the russian federation is an entirely different beast from the past.



This is simply speculation based on a series of gratuitous inferences. And it leaves aside the objective and serious security threats emanating from NATO which Russia has been confronted with.



ZeGerman said:


> And look…trying to annex a coubtry again. What a suprise. No wonder sweden and finland had enough.



Not in an unprovoked manner. Not out of an expansionist, hegemonist drive but out of a defensive calculus, like it or not.



ZeGerman said:


> You are just playing with semantics.
> As If tomorrow america would rename itself and put a million army next to iran i would be calling you paranoid to raise eyebrows…”its a new regime. All the past is wiped out from record!”



It's more as if the USA would not just rename itself, but also completely revise its institutional and political order, its economic system, its state ideology, official symbols and more.

And, for the analogy to be accurate Iran would have had to take advantage of temporary American weakness in order to integrate Cuba and Mexico into a defensive alliance under Iranian leadership, hold wargames in those countries, run secret bio labs there, hold talks with Canada to join the alliance, stage two consecutive "color revolutions" in Ottowa to install rabidly anti-American movements into power, who would then proceed to suppressing the rights of local citizens of American descent... Oh, and Iran would need to be armed with several thousand nuclear weapons to boot.

Any attempt by this new American regime to push back on hostile forces in Canada would be misconstrued as "a return to the old ways", an awakening of the imperialist demons of the USSR and so on. Out of the blue, Washington would be accused of intending to invade Iran's neighbors next.

This is more like it. Not quite the same as the quoted scenario now, is it.



ZeGerman said:


> Childsplay compared to russian behaviour.



No evidence to suggest such a thing. In fact empirical data points to the opposite.



ZeGerman said:


> Thats the russian framing yes. Instead we are helping millions of refugees and millions of ukranians who just want their sovereignity. Which russia is trying to erase, against signed promises…



...in order to avert her own balkanization at the hands of an enemy that breached its geopolitical promises first.



ZeGerman said:


> Was talking about chechnia, syria.
> Ukraine is not on that level yet but casualties are mounting.



Vastly different types of interventions by Moscow. What they do have in common though, is that all three were triggered by NATO assault on vital Russian interests, or in Syria's case major Russian interests.



ZeGerman said:


> Its a defensive alliance. Most eastern european countries joined this as a result of past russian agression and annexation.
> 
> You cannot rewrite the past iranian.



And this absolves NATO's aggressive behaviour displayed with excessive vigor since the collapse of the Soviet Union? Not that during the bipolar rivalry, NATO regimes refrained from launching multiple bloody wars with an appalling human toll.

It didn't take long for the original pretext invoked for NATO's creation to fade in the face of these brutal and unjustified offensive undertakings.



ZeGerman said:


> You use sovjet time vague verbal promises and acts (nato expanding) when it suits you, and pretend that sovjet past doesnt exist when it doesnt suit you.
> 
> Its quite apparent….



Yes because those aspects of Soviet past no longer exist. It's quite simple.



ZeGerman said:


> You use the ukranian court findings during pro-russian dominated times when it suits you. And its part of zionist manipulation when not (like yanukovich being judged a traitor)



So during Yushchenko's presidency, when those poisoning claims were investigated, Russian-friendly forces were ruling Ukraine? Not really.



ZeGerman said:


> Not that simple
> A unit between 900-2500 members. Most nationalist with a minority holding fascist ideas.



Ukrainian nationalists espouse Bandera. Brainwashed and egged on by their NATO-submissive regime, lots of Ukrainians no directly adhering to nationalist formations do as well.

Plus as told, within the military and political scene, armed far right units wield highly disproportionate influence upon the decision-making process. Such as threatening former president Poroshenko with death were he to insist on implementing the ceasefire stipulated for by the Minsk agreements.



ZeGerman said:


> This is ofcourse no justification to invade to “denazify” ukraine with its 44 million population.
> Russian claims ate widely ridiculed…you parotting the “nazis everywhere” angle is equally laughable.



Azov being a neo-Nazi group onto itself may not be a justification but I explained Russia's rationale in length already, and it's a solid, legitimate one.



ZeGerman said:


> Do i need to post videos of russians gunning down civilians? Denazification in progress?



Every imaginable document was posted in this thread. We all saw them, and evidence for war crimes incriminates the Kiev regime much rather than Russia.



ZeGerman said:


> You have no issue with taking russian statements at face value.
> No issue with choosing what parts of history to use and what not. What parts of promises “count” and what not.
> You dont have a semblance of objectivity.



No matter how you spin it, history does not present claims by NATO under a particularly credible light.



ZeGerman said:


> Every day ukraine is resisting further damages your propaganda that the vast majority of russian speaking ukranians were heavily oppressed and eager for “liberation”.
> You must have thought this was was gonna be over in a week huh?



No I didn't. In fact it was the western mainstream media which simply attributed such thinking to Russia, when in fact Moscow never expressed this kind of assessment.

What I know though, is that the Ukrainian regime lost the war, for all practical purposes, in the first two to three weeks. Everything that followed and will follow from now on, is akin to a formality, be it a protracted one. As said the outcome can be delayed, not modified.



ZeGerman said:


> You prefer your russian polls i understand.
> 
> 12 million refugees to “zelenski nazi regime” zones or the “nazi nato” . Hmm thats a lot of ukranian nazis! Again. Just wait. Cold hard numbers..cold hard reality is cracking your deluded propaganda frame day by day.



My comments were clear as to how Ukrainians supportive of the Kiev regime relate to Nazism, WW2 and so on.

As for refugees, I'm not sure what you're attempting to prove with these numbers. Because few will risk crossing the frontlines to reach Russian-controlled territory, since they'd face harsh reprisal from Ukrainian extremists if caught. A Russian-speaker from Kharkov wanting to evade the crossfire for instance, will find it much easier and safer to seek refuge somewhere in central or western Ukraine than further to the east, even though they might side politically with Russia. It's a question of practicality in essence, but it doesn't imply that these refugees are preferring the Banderist, NATO-subservient Kiev regime to the Russian liberators.



ZeGerman said:


> Hahaha grozny, aleppo, mariopol is russias gentle approach? How far from reality have you deluded yourself?



You're amalgating various scenarii, which unfolded under fundamentally different circumstances. My statement was that Russia's ongoing campaign in Ukraine does not resemble the typical heavy handed approach resorted to by NATO. Now you can rehash Grozny and Aleppo all you want, but it'll be beside the point.

Mariupol indeed, where die hard ultra-nationalist units of the Ukrainian military had taken up position in some of the most impenetrable shelters designed to withdstand nuclear blasts among others, where defenders taking cover inside civilian buildings was the norm, and where a nihilistic mindset reminiscent of the Wehrmacht's futile but unnecessarily self-destructive 1945 defense of Berlin resulted in above average damage to infrastructure.

I mean, you can repeat it a thousand times, the response will remain unchanged.



ZeGerman said:


> Russia has a massive military advantage over ukraine.
> Now 20 million ukranians are “supposedly” dying to rejoin russia.
> Ukranian morale regular units (which is vast majority btw) is supposedly at an extreme low.
> 
> Yes…ofcourse such a war takes 100 days without end in sight yet….your propaganda shatters in front of situation on the ground.



Have Russian-speakers left the liberated areas en masse? Negative. They can't wait to be granted Russian citizenship.

Russia has a massive military advantage indeed, which is why it has secured victory in this war already. Russia has had a total monopoly on strategic initiative and it is the only side capable of maneuver warfare, while Ukrainian forces have shown themselves to be static, entrenched in fortified positions and desperately seeking to delay the inevitable.

Considering the amount and type of forces committed by Moscow, as well as all other relevant factors, a hundred days to achieve the present result (liberation of some 25% of Ukraine's territory) is perfectly normal. It's going to take some additional months, however the outcome will stay the same.

Frankly, there's too much excitement over nothing in your above quoted comment.



ZeGerman said:


> Russia has been claiming the front would collapse and the donbass army trapped in a pocket for months now. What would be expected with shattered morale…
> Instead they are now fighting 3 weeks for severodonetsk.



Russia never officially gave such precise timetables. Donbas is home to the most fortified Ukrainian defense lines, manned by its most fanatical fighters. Hence the delay. I invite you recall this when it's over i.e. when Russia achieves to pierce through this line, which is simply a matter of time.



ZeGerman said:


> A man carries responsibilities for the actions they choose.
> 
> Its not fucking dominos with all fault landing on the one pushing the first stones and the others had “no choice but to fall”.
> 
> This invasion is a disgrace.



Indeed, NATO and its local collaborators carry the responsibility of leaving Russia with no option other than coercive measures in order to safeguard her security and territorial integrity.



ZeGerman said:


> Dont deflect. Just admit (sovjet) russia was many times more heavy handed in afghanistan



Just admit that against NATO occupiers, Afghan rebels didn't enjoy 5% of the international backing they did against the USSR, hence why the 1980's war was much more intensive and therefore led to more casualties as well.



ZeGerman said:


> Well the russians never admitted any fault. And now happily continue their actions of flattening cities and bombing hospitals (also in enormous numbers compared to even america)



Still the Soviets aren't relevant to the context of the discussed point.

Speaking of hospitals, one of the first targets hit by invading US forces in Fallujah, Iraq was the local hospital. Cruelty in its purest form.



ZeGerman said:


> Maybe iran should be part of a sunni dictatorship. Much more “stable” then this shia/sunni thing. You like stable dictators so im sure you are all for it.



1) You missed the point.
2) Iran is extremely stable, especially given the enemies she is facing.
3) There's no "Shia-Sunni thing" outside of misinformation and a simplistic but erroneous reading of regional affairs and conflicts.



ZeGerman said:


> And in another interview he had a different tune.
> 
> Besides, “nobody cares about the sovjets” right? And written promises (especially more recent and with the federation) supercede verbal statements.



Indeed, Soviets crimes in Ukraine have no bearing on the lawfulness of the Russian Federation's behaviour.

And hostile NATO encroachment along international borders was a threat to the USSR in its final years, it is even more of a threat to the Russian Federation.



ZeGerman said:


> Hell you know how many statements the sovjets broke back then hahahaha.
> 
> But no. Lets handpick this particular one as the “one ring to rule all promises”?



How is that relevant to the Russian Federation and its legitimate security concerns?



ZeGerman said:


> Yes. Thats exactly what the ukranians think after being used as toiletpaper too often by the russians.



Soviets weren't just composed of Russians.



ZeGerman said:


> Nato is a defensive alliance by the way.
> Europe had record low military spending and readiness. There was little threat to russia and russia could have chosen diplomacy.



A so-called defensive alliance. Which specializes in initiating wars of aggression and triggering proxy conflicts.



ZeGerman said:


> Russia..i mean the “seperatists” causing the brunt of the civilian casualties.



I bet this claim originates from the regime in Kiev. But either way, the party which starts it is responsible for the war as per international law. And in the case at hand, we know which side that is (and why they did it).



ZeGerman said:


> Ofcourse this is very thin ice to justify a war of agression on. “Genocide” who are the russians kidding…



Wonder how Kiev justifies its foregoing war of aggression against the DPR and the LPR.



ZeGerman said:


> Very selective reading of that history might i add.
> 
> So much as to come to the conclusion that eastern europeans and ukranians shouldnt be so paranoid and embrace russias warm motherly bosom.



That's what the facts suggest to me, although I see no need for sarcastic phrasing.

That, or at least some form of neutrality between the west and Russia, coupled with constructive relations with both sides. Instead, these regimes chose to toe the NATO line and antagonize Russia for nothing. Well, guess they're enjoying the payback now.



ZeGerman said:


> I just think its presumptious to think you “know better” then millions of eastern europeans living through russian occupation and pressure.



Or than the millions of Germans who voted NSDAP in 1933...? We all have such beliefs.



ZeGerman said:


> In a way you think like an american…
> They “knew better” too in trying to reshape the middle east and forcefully install democracy



Or like supporters of the current German regime. They "know better" than their forebears, about 44% of whom cast their vote for the NSDAP, wouldn't you say?



ZeGerman said:


> I am no fan of america.
> Its misconduct Has little to do justifying russia trying to annex ukraine though.



It sure did. Like threatening Russia's security nearly on her entire western flank.

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## sammuel

Corax said:


> Yep, just like how the Palestinians are fighting for their homes



You forget the Israelis are also fighting for their homes..

What are the Russians fighting for ?

~

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## Corax

sammuel said:


> You forget the Israelis are also fighting for their homes..
> 
> What are the Russians fighting for ?
> 
> ~



Good analogy, the Russians are invading a foreign land to claim it as their own, much like how the Zionist Jews invaded and claimed Palestine as their own.

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## Viet

ZeGerman said:


> Also i noticed the “85% world supports russia” lie being repeated lately.
> 
> Lets check who really supports russia:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Infographic: Where Russia's Attack on Ukraine Was Condemned
> 
> 
> This chart shows countries/regional economies by official stance on Russian invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.nl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Five nations - Russia, Syria, North Korea, Eritrea and Belarus - voted against the resolution. Four more - Iran, Nicaragua, Venezuela and Cuba - did not vote or abstained, but have on their own published pro-Russian statements.
> 
> Its a sad little club really.
> Are these the faces of the new “multipolar” order humanity should look forward to?


Heh attention, Lavrov needs Etriea for a new democratic world order. After that he will denazify himself.


----------



## kingQamaR

925boy said:


> but you and i already know Russia will intercept and destroy most of those equipments before they reach the Ukrainian forces that need them. This war has been going on for months and folks arent learning?? smh



He won't, he couldn't handle NATO's combined power

This could start nuclear WW3 :-(


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535993266306441216

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536008503906775040

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## Flight of falcon

Looks like Zelenski the clown last days are near. This idiot should be charged with the destruction of his country and hanged in public along with his ministers and generals.

judgment-day-coming-zelensky-040346573.html


----------



## kingQamaR

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Ammo is expensive in the west. Only a few million 155 mm ammo in America. Won't even last a month in Donbas.



I'd like to see a full accounting of what other NATO countries have given to Ukraine ... all types of weapons, military protection gear, technology, clothing, tents, vehicles and so forth. Especially the more prosperous NATO countries like the UK, Germany, France, etc. Everyone has gotta contribute in a fair manner. They should be happy to do it. Putin could be targeting THEIR country if they weren't in the NATO alliance. They should be doing more than just sheltering refugees. That's the ground rules for being in the alliance.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536019086383235073


kingQamaR said:


> I'd like to see a full accounting of what other NATO countries have given to Ukraine ... all types of weapons, military protection gear, technology, clothing, tents, vehicles and so forth. Especially the more prosperous NATO countries like the UK, Germany, France, etc. Everyone has gotta contribute in a fair manner. They should be happy to do it. Putin could be targeting THEIR country if they weren't in the NATO alliance. They should be doing more than just sheltering refugees. That's the ground rules for being in the alliance.



Everything has limits. I don't see Britain sending Challenger 2 tanks and Typhoon jets to Ukraine. Even if Britain sends all of its artillery pieces to Ukraine, they don't last very long, maybe a few months before they are all destroyed in Donbas.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535760301789851648

The Russians have gained only a few dozen kms since the end of April, and at a massive cost. 

Another perspective check for the Russian trolls.

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## khansaheeb

sammuel said:


> Come on , Ukrainians are fighting for there homes , If a few fellow allies volunteered to help , they sure don't do it for money benefit.
> 
> If anyone is deploying Mercenaries on a large scale it is Russia .
> 
> What exactly have the chechias got to look in Ukraine ? The vagner group ? Syrians ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia deploys up to 20,000 mercenaries in battle for Ukraine’s Donbas region
> 
> 
> Moscow is luring mercenaries from Syria, Libya and elsewhere in effort to capture as much as possible of eastern Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com


So, Palestinians are fighting for their homes from an illegal occupation so you agree with mercenaries fighting for them?

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## kingQamaR

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536019086383235073
> 
> 
> Everything has limits. I don't see Britain sending Challenger 2 tanks and Typhoon jets to Ukraine. Even if Britain sends all of its artillery pieces to Ukraine, they don't last very long, maybe a few months before they are all destroyed in Donbas.



Unlikely , they will have to be manned by trained British and nato troops ?


----------



## F-22Raptor

The Russians have overextended at Slovyansk, leaving their flanks exposed at Izyum. The Ukrainians have recaptured significant land west of Izyum as a result.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536041095737577475

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536049704399683584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536049706681368576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536049707910299651

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536049709260881923

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536049710598864900

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536049714524823555


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## MeFishToo

The pro-russians like to say the US is willing to fight Russia to the last ukrainian, while repeating the russian narrative that this whole war is meant to protect the people in Donetsk/Luhansk regions.
I think youre all forgetting the forced mobilization of males aged 18 to 65 in those regions, no matter your physical condition. Basically all males in the Donbas function as untrained infantry in the undermanned russian peace time army. They are basically expendable unaccounted cannon fodder for Russia.
Hard to belive the ordinary citizens of Donbas appreciate Russias so called protection.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536049715799810050

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536049717406310402

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536049719222407169

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536049721466290177

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536049723706118145

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536049725950070786


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## Gomig-21

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Su-25 artillery smashing jets
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535985752336629760



That was some smashing Russian heavy metal, too. 

A lot of the rocket firing -- and especially the lobbying of the rockets and missiles -- even from Ka-52s don't seem to have an intended target, unless it's some type of tactic they're employing to scatter or warn the Ukranian forces from entering or passing through these areas. That must be it because of all the visible and scattered craters all over those open fields.

It's also very noticeable how the Russians have adjusted to their horrible flying techniques of earlier periods of the war where they were cannon fodder for Ukranian MANPADs. Their losses to those defenses have decreased exponentially due to the change in flight patterns and speeds. 

10 Ka-52 taken out in the first 2 months and ever since, none have fallen while sorties have increased, it seems.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536049728202342400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536049729980846080

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536049731180298249

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536049732442783745

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536049733730549761

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536049735135535104

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## Gomig-21

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535931276372344832

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## Dalit

How is the Russian ruble doing lately? Promises were made that the Russian ruble was going to be turned into rubble. I don't hear any propaganda anymore from certain quarters regarding Russian economy being turned into dust etc.

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## MeFishToo

Dalit said:


> How is the Russian ruble doing lately? Promises were made that Russian ruble was going to be turned into rubble. I don't hear any propaganda anymore from certain quarters regarding Russian economy being turned into dust etc.


Youre totally free to invest your savings in rubles and russian stocks - if you can. Give it a try and tell us how much money you make on this investment.


----------



## Dalit

MeFishToo said:


> Youre totally free to invest your savings in rubles and russian stocks - if you can. Give it a try and tell us how much money you make on this investment.



That wasn't my question. So don't twist my words.

You guys claimed that Russian economy was going to be turned to dust. Clearly you haven't delivered on your own promise.

PS. I just sold shitty US tech shares where I made considerable loss. I am glad I was able to retrieve the remainder of my money.

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## The SC

ZeGerman said:


> Unfortunately quite likely (ukraine should also perform a fighting retreat)
> 
> Donbass province then will be next. Though that should take months.
> 
> The question is…is that ukranian reserve/conscription army building up and amounting to an actual force??
> 
> If not…then russia will entrench and probably eventually succeed in annexing these two provinces (including cherson and more land in south).


There was a tweet yesterday showing summons sent to dead people in Ukraine..Sad but true.. A woman was very angry showing them sent to her dead husband and 2 sons..

And in another tweet they were hijacking men who entered a store to buy stuff..

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## MeFishToo

Dalit said:


> That wasn't my question. So don't twist my words.


The point is Russia is manipulating the market. They basically decide the ruble dollar ratio by controlling trade and pumping the currency using reserves. The exchange rate is artificial.

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## Dalit

MeFishToo said:


> The point is Russia is manipulation the market. They basically decide the ruble dollar ratio by controlling trade and pumping the currency using reserves. The exchange rate is artificial.



Perhaps. Maybe the Russians are smart and trading in rubles?

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## Apollon

925boy said:


> but you and i already know Russia will intercept and destroy most of those equipments before they reach the Ukrainian forces that need them. This war has been going on for months and folks arent learning?? smh



Russia controlled 34% of Ukraine in march, now only 19% by June. We obviously grill enough russians in their tanks to put the pricetag very high. If things change NATO should directly intervene and attack Kaliningrad conventional from all fronts

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## MeFishToo

Dalit said:


> That wasn't my question. So don't twist my words.
> 
> You guys claimed that Russian economy was going to be turned to dust. Clearly you haven't delivered on your own promise.
> 
> PS. I just sold shitty US tech shares where I made considerable loss. I am glad I was able to retrieve the remainder of my money.


Atleast you were able to sell your stocks. Had they been russian they wouldve been worth zero.


----------



## Apollon

Dalit said:


> Perhaps. Maybe the Russians are smart and trading in rubles?



How smart can someone be who throws all economy developed in last 30 xears away and loses all its assets in europe build up in decades?


----------



## Dalit

MeFishToo said:


> Atleast you were able to sell your stocks. Had they been russian they wouldve been worth zero.



Never done it so difficult to say.

If Russia is so bad why are you guys buying their evil gas and oil?



Apollon said:


> How smart can someone be who throws all economy developed in last 30 xears away and loses all its assets in europe build up in decades?



You are confusing Russian magnates with Russian state? The Russian state has done reasonably well the last time I checked.

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## MeFishToo

Dalit said:


> Never done it so difficult to say.
> 
> If Russia is so bad why are you guys buying their evil gas and oil?


Because that is exactly all they have to offer the world I guess. Me personally, I dont need it to be russian. Im fine with higher prices. Let Russia choke on it.


----------



## Dalit

MeFishToo said:


> Because that is exactly all they have to offer the world I guess. Me personally, I dont need it to be russian. Im fine with higher prices. Let Russia choke on it.



Why are Western countries buying Russian gas and oil? You haven't answered the question.

You might be okay with higher prices, but the majority of Westerners aren't. I know Europeans who are okay with Russia taking Ukrainian land. If that brings peace why not?

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## Viet

Rheinmetall introduces Germany’s new main battle tank as response to Russia threat.

“Panther”


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532677191250624512

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## Apollon

Dalit said:


> Never done it so difficult to say.
> 
> If Russia is so bad why are you guys buying their evil gas and oil?
> 
> 
> 
> You are confusing Russian magnates with Russian state? The Russian state has done reasonably well the last time I checked.



The russian state lost 60% of its foreign reserves and 100% of its assets. Tge entire pipeline system to Germany, all gas storage facilities were nationalized by Germany.


Thats not doing well for Russia, its a cataclysm.


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## Viet

“Panther”


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## Apollon

Dalit said:


> Why are Western countries buying Russian gas and oil? You haven't answered the question.
> 
> You might be okay with higher prices, but the majority of Westerners aren't. I know Europeans who are okay with Russia taking Ukrainian land. If that brings peace why not?



Did giving Czech republic to Hitler bring peace in 1939? Russia must be crushed in Ukraine, thats the only way. Otherwise Russia will then attack baltics and poland, Germany too after that.


----------



## Dalit

Apollon said:


> The russian state lost 60% of its foreign reserves and 100% of its assets. Tge entire pipeline system to Germany, all gas storage facilities were nationalized by Germany.
> 
> 
> Thats not doing well for Russia, its a cataclysm.



The impact on Russian economy has been minimal. We were promised a complete destruction of Russian economic system.



Apollon said:


> Did giving Czech republic to Hitler bring peace in 1939? Russia must be crushed in Ukraine, thats the only way. Otherwise Russia will then attack baltics and poland, Germany too after that.



It ain't gonna happen and you know it. Russia is going to achieve every goal.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536056805389963265


Apollon said:


> Did giving Czech republic to Hitler bring peace in 1939? Russia must be crushed in Ukraine, thats the only way. Otherwise Russia will then attack baltics and poland, Germany too after that.



Hitler only annexed Sudetenland which was rightfully German land that was lost to Czech in WW1. Germany didn't annex Czech or Poland. It was Britain and France that declared war on Germany. Germany had no intention of invading France. Only after France declared war on Germany did Germany invade France.

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## MeFishToo

Dalit said:


> Why are Western countries buying Russian gas and oil? You haven't answered the question.
> 
> You might be okay with higher prices, but the majority of Westerners aren't. I know Europeans who are okay with Russia taking Ukrainian land. If that brings peace why not?


Well, my country isnt buying. Those forced to, because of infrastructure build for gas, do of cource need time to readjust.
The price is not importend. The importend thing is to get rid of russian influence via oil and gas. It may take some years to achieve it, but so be it.

Giving Russia ukrainian land brings peace to whom exactly? Those europeans you know live peacefull lifes already.

Btw, Russia is only trying to annex areas in Ukraine with natural ressources, industry and agricultural potential. Its a war about resources. Russia is trying to strenghten it self. Why on gods green earth should Ukraine accept that and just give it away?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536015158874714118

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535961160238891015

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535951858652663809

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535961160238891015


Russian propaganda is at times laughable. They really needed those police officers controlling the crowd and their two small flags.


----------



## Apollon

Dalit said:


> The impact on Russian economy has been minimal. We were promised a complete destruction of Russian economic system.
> 
> 
> 
> It ain't gonna happen and you know it. Russia is going to achieve every goal.



The impact is gargantuan, ruusian imports collapsed. Economy shrinks by 15%. 


Russia wont achieve any goal. It was russian goal to destroy ukraine completly 80% of the country are out of its reach. Eussian goal was to opress entire Europe and disband NATO. opposite happened, Russia is now cut off from Europe, deprived any development chance and reduced to vasall status for China. 


Was that Putins goal?


----------



## kingQamaR

MeFishToo said:


> Because that is exactly all they have to offer the world I guess. Me personally, I dont need it to be russian. Im fine with higher prices. Let Russia choke on it.



Doesn't matter if the entire world stopped buying Russian gas. Do you know what happens when you remove the 2nd largest gas producer on the planet? The 2nd largest being Russia, that produces more gas than the next 3 largest producers combined? It leads to astronimcal prices for consumers, as we're currently experiencing


----------



## Apollon

kingQamaR said:


> Doesn't matter if the entire world stopped buying Russian gas. Do you know what happens when you remove the 2nd largest gas producer on the planet? The 2nd largest being Russia, that produces more gas than the next 3 largest producers combined? It leads to astronimcal prices for consumers, as we're currently experiencing



Gas as fossil fuel has to be phased out anyways. Less demand means lower prices


----------



## kingQamaR

Apollon said:


> Gas as fossil fuel has to be phased out anyways. Less demand means lower prices



It's ok for now but as winter comes and the lights are off cold and ice starts forming on the inside of windows like it did when we were children we shall see our resolve then

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## ZeGerman

SalarHaqq said:


> The Russians can see how the Ukrainian regime has made russhophobic Nazi references socially acceptable (while sidelining others), and they react accordingly to this provocative affront.
> Indoctrinated Ukrainians are discovering that doing the west's dirty work, threatening Russia's immediate security and depriving local Russian communities of their rights will come at a price.


There was no one actually threathening russias security. In 2008 Nato accession was still far off with even the MAP off the table. It was closer eu ties that got russia to invade in 2014 and heavily back and run their seperatist statelets. Talk about meddling there….









A historical timeline of post-independence Ukraine


Ukraine has been dogged by corruption scandals, economic mismanagement, and Russian interference since it achieved independence in 1991. Russian threats have intensified as Ukraine's ties with the United States and Europe have improved in recent years.




www.pbs.org













Donetsk and Luhansk: What you should know about the ‘republics’


Who has followed Russia in recognising the Moscow-backed statelets in Ukraine? And what is life like there?




www.aljazeera.com





Ukraine then slid further away from russia camp. Instead of diplomacy with a europe warming up again, it chose violence…a recurring theme seen in eastern europe…


SalarHaqq said:


> Could not find a statement where Putin outlines an agenda to restore the borders of the USSR in these sources.


Plenty of statements how ukraine is not really a nation state and they are “one” and whatnot. 

What a catastrophe the end of the soviet union was. 

Could you imagine the germans talking like that? Everybody would get nervous again and rightly so.


SalarHaqq said:


> The USSR was far wider than just Russia and Ukraine. As for Ukraine, I indicated how the regime in Kiev did everything in its power to forego a peaceful solution, and how the security stakes for Russia are on a completely different level than what the US was facing when it decided to bomb Iraq, Syria, Libya etc.


Russia hardly did everything in its power to reach a peacefull solution. Its really a repetition of history we saw with eastern germany, poland, chech, hungary etc. Russian heavyhanded meddling, pressure, and eventually agression. 


SalarHaqq said:


> Not in an unprovoked manner. Not out of expansionist leanings but out of a defensive calculus, whether we like it or not.


I admit that russia can feel somewhat pushed. This whole matter has been handled poorly diplomatically. With america ofcourse pushing and pushing. 

Annexing land from a sovereign neighbour is expanding however. 


SalarHaqq said:


> Rename itself, completely change its institutional and political system, its economic system and so on.


It changed system but is ruled by a kgb dictator that denies statehood from certain neighbours, never admitted soviet faults, wants to “reclaim lands” and sees the dissolution of the soviet union as a catastrophe. 

Ukraine had good cause to be nervous, and whaddaya know. They got invaded by russia going all soviet style on them. 

“a fox might lose its hair but not its character” is a dutch expression. 


SalarHaqq said:


> And, for the analogy to be accurate Iran would have to take advantage of American weakness in order to integrate Cuba and Mexico into a defensive alliance under her leadership, hold wargames in those countries, run secret bio labs there, hold talks with Canada to join the alliance, stage two consecutive "color revolutions" in Ottowa to install rabid anti-American movements into power, who would then proceed to suppressing the rights of local citizens with American roots.
> 
> Oh, and Iran would have to be armed with several thousand nuclear weapons to boot. Any attempt by the new American regime to push back on those hostile forces in Canada would be misconstrued by Iranian propaganda as "a return to the old ways", an awakening of the imperialist American demon and so on.
> 
> This is more like it, and it isn't quite the same as the quoted scenario now, is it.


So convenient to conpletely erase the (soviet) past. Too bad for many eastern europeans their memory serves them well. 

Link for those “biolabs?”


SalarHaqq said:


> ...in order to avert her own balkanization down the road by an enemy which breached its geopolitical promises first.


Ah promises…like invading poland and murdering the polish pows? 
Or starving ukranians.
You really want to go into “firsts” with soviet promises? 

Ukraine is a sovereign nation. Them joining eu is not balkanizing russia. Even them joining nato isnt.


SalarHaqq said:


> Vastly different types of interventions by Moscow. What they do have in common though, is that all three were triggered by NATO assault on vital Russian interests, or in Syria's case major interests.


Well for starters stalinist population measures and supporting minority dictatorships are always a cause of instability in itself.
also claims of nato assaults are fake/disputed regarding chechnia


SalarHaqq said:


> And this absolves NATO's aggressive behaviour displayed with excessive vigor since the collapse of the Soviet Union? Not that during the bipolar rivalry, NATO regimes did not launch multiple bloody wars.
> 
> The original pretext invoked for NATO's creation rapidly faded in the face of these offensive undertakings.


If ukraine was in nato it would not be invaded…plenty of nations fleeing for russian agression towards nato. Hasnt changed in decades really.


SalarHaqq said:


> So during Yushchenko's presidency, when the poisoning claims were investigated, Russian-friendly forces were in power in Ukraine?


No kuzmin was always pro-russian.
He really pushed more around 2010-2011 same time as yanukovich was jailing opposition. 


SalarHaqq said:


> Ukrainian nationalists espouse Bandera. Lots of Ukrainians who are not part of nationalist formations do as well, egged on by the regime.
> 
> Plus as told, within the military and political scene, armed far right units wield highly disproportionate influence upon the decision-making process. Such as threatening former president Poroshenko with death were he to insist on implementing the ceasefire stipulated for by the Minsk agreements.


The nazi angle is far overblown. We are talking tens of millions wanting closer eu ties. Millions fleeing russia now. 

Stalin was cooperating with the nazis too. Maybe that explains why those “z” troops act so much like fascists. 


SalarHaqq said:


> Every imaginable document was posted in this thread. We all saw them, and evidence for war crimes incriminates the Kiev regime far more than Russia.


Nonsense. Un on donbass, investigations current conflict, all point to heavier russian transgressions. 



SalarHaqq said:


> No matter how you spin it, history does not present claims issued by NATO regimes under a particularly favorable light.











Why The Kremlin Lies: Understanding Its Loose Relationship With the Truth


Russian leaders have used deception for strategic ends in ways that shed light on their geopolitical goals




carnegieendowment.org






SalarHaqq said:


> No I didn't. In fact it was the western mainstream media which simply attributed such thinking to Russia, when in fact Moscow never expressed this kind of assessment.
> 
> What I know though, is that the Ukrainian regime lost the war, for all practical purposes, in the first two to three weeks. Everything that followed and will follow for now more, is akin to a formality, be it a lengthy one. As said the outcome can be delayed, not modified.


Well for one ukraine stopped the attacks on kiev and kharkiv. They have gotten their statehood. A country of 30 million heavily anti-russian. 

Donbass is still not decided. Not looking good but lets see how the new ukranian mobilisation with western weapons will pan out.


SalarHaqq said:


> As for refugees, I'm not sure what you seek to prove with these numbers. Twelve million or more people might very well support the regime, don't remember stating otherwise.


That the numbers dont match your “nazis everywhere” russian propaganda. It is not a justification for this war.


SalarHaqq said:


> Mixing various scenarii unfolding under fundamentally different circumstances. My statement was that Russia's military operation in Ukraine does not resemble the typical heavy handed approach resorted to by NATO. Now you can rehash Grozny and Aleppo all you want, but it'll be beside the point.


We will see when the smoke clears and the victims pile up. 


SalarHaqq said:


> Mariupol indeed, where die hard extremist units of the Ukrainian army had taken up position among others in some of the most impenetrable locations built to resist nuclear strikes, where the use of civilian buildings as shields was the norm, and where a nihilistic mindset reminiscent of the Wehrmacht's futile but unnecessarily self-destructive defense of Berlin in 1945 resulted in above average damage to infrastructure.
> 
> I mean, if you repeat it a thousand times, I will be right here and will reiterate the same response a thousand times. No problem, believe me. I'm not sure if you believe that by repeating this endlessly, I'm going to get confused but if that's your hope, rest assured, it's not going to happen.


Bucha rubizhne. There are many many more flattened cities and villages. 

Soldiers openly gunning down civilians and their regiments get medals. Not even the americans are that openly cynical. 


SalarHaqq said:


> Russia never officially gave such precise timetables. Donbas is home to the most fortified Ukrainian defense line, manner by its most fanatical neo-Nazi units. Hence the delay. Recall these words when it's over.


Yes lets see. 
It is clear russia underestimated ukraine however. 


SalarHaqq said:


> You're the one deflecting here, don't project your misstep on others. Just admit Afghan rebels didn't enjoy 5% of the international backing against NATO that they did against the USSR.


Its simple, russia invade afghanistan. Millions of civilians dead
America does, tens of thousands. 


SalarHaqq said:


> Speaking of hospitals, one of the first targets of invading US forces in Fallujah was the local hospital.


And i lost count to the number in ukraine. Dozens. 


SalarHaqq said:


> 2) Iran is extremely stable politically and socially given the enemies she is facing.
> 3) There's no "Shia-Sunni thing" outside of misinformation and simplistic, shallow look at regional affairs and conflicts.


The saudi think otherwise. Come on salarhaqq its better to live under a stable sunni dictator. 
Thats what you want for the eastern europeans afterall. Stability under a foreign dictator. 


SalarHaqq said:


> And yes again, hostile NATO encroachment along borders was a threat to the USSR in its final years, it is even more of a threat to the Russian Federation.


What threat? Again. Defensive alliance and europeans veing overly pacifistic. Wanting larger trade with russia.

Now they double their spending and are pushed back in arms of the meddling americans…great move putin.


SalarHaqq said:


> Wonder how Kiev justifies its foregoing war of aggression against the DPR and LPR consecutive to the internationally brokered and ratified ceasefire it decided to breach.


You mean protecting their sovereign land against those russian mercenaries? 

Un noted most transgressions from seperatists. So no…they dont only look at who “started”…

I am close to finishing this discussion by the way. All your “facts” and observations are extremely biased and hand-picked. 

I will let the reality on the ground speak for itself. 

Millions of ukranians now set heavily against russia. 
More and more dead civilians will show up. 
And the “crushed” morale and “millions hoping to be liberated” should lead to a collapsed front. But it has not and will not. 
The seperatist nations will regret it over time as they suffer under dictatorship and increasing poverty vs their western unranian brothers.

Sounds familiar? Its the history with former warsaw pact all over again…

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## MeFishToo

kingQamaR said:


> Doesn't matter if the entire world stopped buying Russian gas. Do you know what happens when you remove the 2nd largest gas producer on the planet? The 2nd largest being Russia, that produces more gas than the next 3 largest producers combined? It leads to astronimcal prices for consumers, as we're currently experiencing


Higher prices leads to exploration and development of oil and gas fields not profitable a few years ago. It effects the economi because using Russian gas was easy for european countries, which is russias primary market. But its not like industries and households cant change its energy source. It requires some investments, but so be it.
It was a big mistake, especiale by Germany, to rely on russian gas. But its not the end of the world cutting off Russia. Its just a set back.

Its a much bigger problem for Russia if Europe stops consuming its production of energy.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536053501289185281

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## The SC

Russian Defense: 3 Ukrainian Su-25 fighters were shot down in Kharkiv and Donetsk
@AlArabiya_Brk


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535948738757152769

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535920410411278336

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## The SC

The new owner of the former McDonald's restaurant chain in Russia, Oleg Baruyev, announced that he chose the name "Fkosno e tochka" (yummy. point.) instead of the name McDonald's.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535944468012183552
"I am very proud of the honor given to me by the development of this company. I am ambitious and plan not only to reopen the 850 restaurants, but also to develop new ones," Gofour said on Sunday.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535944500207550466
Under the terms of the sale, Gofour agreed to keep McDonald's employees in Russia for at least two years, in addition to financing obligations owed to suppliers, property owners and utilities, according to the US company. McDonald's employed 62,000 people in Russia.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535944507296043012

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536092498254241792


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536099239696257027

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536099252467814401

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536098815144513536😂😂

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536084595267051520

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536105144332566528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536084254504927232

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536082978413092867

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536098092788989954

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536052482698366979


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536047020661690369

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536046578661744644

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536083832331505664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536041173541961729

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536080326350487557

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535957134558494721

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535993138275393546

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536046967264006146

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536106292531580928

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536045046033747969

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536044022027911168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536045479632543745

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536043772747862019

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536042472807211010

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536042408449810432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535957464151166978

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535954839921893376

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535954717620195334

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535954374442237955

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535953701755666433
Big Mac.. Big Mac.. Big Mac

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535953794101653504

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535957134558494721


This one is not true. Russian troops moved southeast through the forest west of the river, but theyve not crossed the river from the east into the salient west of the river. But the russian succes in the forest northwest of the salient might force Ukraine to retreat out of it.


----------



## The SC

Poland called for the transfer of nuclear weapons to Ukraine. The country's former foreign minister said that Russia had violated the provisions of the Budapest Memorandum

"We, as the West, will have the right to give Ukraine nuclear warheads," Radoslav Sikorsky said.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535952363252600832








MeFishToo said:


> This one is not true. Russian troops moved southeast through the forest west of the river, but theyve not crossed the river from the east into the salient west of the river. But the russian succes in the forest northwest of the salient might force Ukraine to retreat out of it.


How can they be West of the river if they didn't cross it..!?

Think..


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535904588104089602

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535948115353665536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535946836913098753

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535920577940267010


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535919662860468224
Happy Russia Day ..Cossack tanks are going to storm Vrubovka.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535983481834065922

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536126754846347264

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535994377788608512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535945300111679488

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 11​Jun 11, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF

*Kateryna Stepanenko, Mason Clark, and George Barros
June 11, 6:00 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Ukrainian intelligence assesses that the Russian military is extending its planning to fight a longer war, though Russian force generation and reserves likely remain poor. *Deputy Head of the Ukrainian Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) Vadym Skibitsky stated the GUR received confirmed information that Russian forces have extended their war planning for the next 120 days, extending to October 2022.[1] Skibitsky said that Russian forces will adjust the plan depending on their successes in Donbas and noted that the Russian General Staff is modifying their invasion plans almost every month.[2] Skibitsky’s statement likely indicates the Kremlin has, at a minimum, acknowledged it cannot achieve its objectives in Ukraine quickly and is further adjusting its military objectives in an attempt to correct the initial deficiencies in the invasion of Ukraine. Skibitsky also claimed that Russian forces have an additional 40 battalion tactical groups (BTGs) in reserve, after having already deployed 103 BTGs to Ukraine. This report is highly unlikely to mean Russian forces retain 40 full-strength and effective BTGs in Russia. At most, these “BTGs” are likely small collections of personnel cobbled together from other units. The Russian military is additionally unlikely to be holding such a significant portion of its force in reserve due to continuing manpower shortages in existing frontline units.
*Ukrainian officials continued to increase their requests for Western offensive and defensive equipment, particularly regarding capabilities necessary to combat Russian artillery superiority.* Head of the Ukrainian Northern Operational Command Dmytro Krasilnikov reported that Ukrainian forces are experiencing a shortage in long-range artillery systems, while Russian artillery continues to overpower Ukrainian infantry. Ukrainian Advisor to Cabinet of Ministers Oleksandr Danylyuk stated that Russian forces adopted a new unspecified strategy that allows them to make more careful maneuvers.[3] Danylyuk added that Russian forces have more resources than Ukraine, which would prove advantageous in a protracted conflict. Severodonetsk Mayor Oleksandr Stryuk said that Ukrainian defenders need long-range artillery and air defense systems to strike against advancing Russian troops in Luhansk Oblast.[4] Ukrainian forces will need consistent Western support, particularly regarding artillery systems, as Russian numbers and resources take their toll on Ukrainian forces in increasingly positional warfare. 
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces continued to conduct ground offensives within the Severodonetsk area, but Ukrainian defenders retain control of the industrial area of the city as of June 11.*
*Russian forces likely resumed efforts to cut the T1303 Hirske-Lysyschansk highway and launched failed assaults on settlements along the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychank highway.*
*Russian forces continued assaults on settlements southwest and southeast of Izyum in an effort to resume drives on Slovyansk.*
*Ukrainian forces likely resumed counteroffensives northwest of Kherson City on June 11, south of their previous operations.*
*Russian occupation officials distributed the first batch of Russian passports in Kherson City and Melitopol.*

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 12​Jun 12, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF

*Karolina Hird, Frederick W. Kagan, George Barros, and Grace Mappes
June 12, 6:30 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Russian forces continue to struggle with generating additional combat-capable units. *The UK Ministry of Defense reported on June 12 that Russian forces have been trying to produce more combat units by preparing to deploy third battalion tactical groups (BTGs) from some units over the last few weeks.[1] The UK MoD noted that Russian brigades and regiments normally can generate two BTGs, but doing so leaves the parent units largely hollow shells. The UK MOD concluded that these third BTGs will likely be understaffed and rely on recruits and mobilized reservists. Their deployment will likely adversely impact the capacity of their parent units to regenerate their combat power for quite some time. BTGs generated in this fashion will not have the combat power of regular BTGs. It will be important not to overestimate Russian reserves produced in this way by counting these third BTGs as if they were normal BTGs.
*Pro-Russian sources are continuing to spread disinformation to sow anxiety and resentment among the Ukrainian population. *Russian Telegram channels reportedly began spreading a fake mobilization order on June 12 that they falsely attributed to the Ukrainian General Staff. The fake order called for the mobilization of all eligible Ukrainian women to report for duty by “June 31” (sic).
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces continued ground assaults in Severodonetsk and blew up bridges that connect Severodonetsk to Lysychansk across the Siverskyi Donets River in a likely attempt to cut Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) that run from Bakhmut to Lysychansk and Severodonetsk.*
*Russian forces made incremental gains to the southeast of Izyum and will likely continue attempts to advance on Slovyansk from the northwest.*
*Russian forces continued efforts to push Ukrainian troops back from contested frontlines northeast of Kharkiv City.*
*Russian forces focused on maintaining defensive lines along the Southern Axis.*



*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued ground assaults in and around Severodonetsk under the cover of heavy artillery fire but have yet to establish full control of the city as of June 12.[2] Ukrainian troops maintain control of the Azot industrial zone.[3] Head of the Luhansk Regional State Administration Serhiy Haidai stated that Russian forces destroyed two bridges across the Siverskyi Donets River between Severodonetsk and Lysychansk and are heavily shelling the third.[4]
Russian forces should, in principle, be seeking to seize the bridges rather than destroy them, since Russian troops have struggled to cross the Siverskyi Donetsk River. They could hope to trap Ukrainian defenders in Severodonetsk by cutting off their retreat, but it seems unlikely that the benefit of catching a relatively small number of defenders would be worth the cost of imposing a contested river crossing on Russian troops. The Russians likely expect instead to be able to break out of their positions either around Toshkivka or from Popasna to the north and then encircle Lysychansk or attack it from the west bank of the Siverskyi Donets, thereby obviating the need to seize the bridges or conduct an opposed crossing. Russian troops conducted another unsuccessful attack on Toshkivka, which is likely an effort to renew their drive north toward Lysychansk on the west bank.[5]



Russian forces continued attempts to advance southeast of Izyum toward Slovyansk and made incremental gains on June 12.[6] The Territorial Defense Force of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) claimed that they took control of Bohorodychne, a settlement near the Kharkiv-Donetsk Oblast border about 20 km northwest of Slovyansk.[7] Russian forces additionally made unsuccessful attempts to advance on Dovhenke, Dolyna, and Mazanivka, all settlements between Izyum and Slovyansk.[8]
Russian forces continued ground and artillery attacks to the east of Bakhmut on June 12.[9] Russian troops reportedly conducted unsuccessful assault operations in Vrubivka and Mykolaivka, both settlements near the critical T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway.[10] Russian forces will likely continue to mount assault operations near the Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway to support the encirclement of Lysychansk.



*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces likely attempted to push Ukrainian forces back from contested frontlines in northeastern Kharkiv Oblast and shelled Ukrainian positions in and around Kharkiv City on June 12.[11] The Ukrainian General Staff stated that Russian forces unsuccessfully attacked in the direction of Starytsya and Rubizhne (in Kharkiv, not Luhansk Oblast), which indicates that Russian forces are continually trying to push Ukrainian forces southwest of the current line of contact to prevent further advances toward the Russian border.[12] Russian forces fired on Kharkiv City and various surrounding settlements.[13]



*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces focused on maintaining defensive lines and fired on Ukrainian positions along the Southern Axis on June 12.[14] The Zaporizhia Regional Military Administration stated that the main Russian effort in Zaporizhia lies on the Vasylivka-Orikhiv-Huliapole-Velyka Kostromka line in northeastern Zaporizhia Oblast near the Donetsk Oblast border.[15] Russian forces additionally fired on various locations in Kherson, Zaporizhia, and Dnipropetrovsk Oblasts.[16]



*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian occupation authorities used the occasion of Russia Day (the day of adoption of the declaration of Russian state sovereignty after the collapse of the Soviet Union) to further consolidate administrative control of occupied territories on June 12. Russian-back authorities in the occupied cities of Berdyansk and Melitopol accused Ukrainian partisans of conducting two separate IED attacks on infrastructure in the Russian-held towns.[17] However, Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command warned that Russian forces were preparing for a series of false-flag attacks in occupied regions on Russia Day, likely to accuse Ukrainian forces of conducting attacks against civilians, harm public perception of Ukrainian partisan activity, and galvanize pro-Russian sentiments.[18] ISW cannot independently assess whether these claims attacks are genuine partisan activity or part of a Russian false-flag campaign.
Head of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) Denis Pushilin met with the governor of Russia’s Leningrad Oblast, Alexander Drodzenko, to secure his patronage for Yanikevo and Vuhledar, two towns in Donetsk Oblast with pre-war populations of 77,000 and 14,000, respectively.[19] Leningrad Oblast has a population of over 1,000,000 and is one of the most significant and wealthy areas of Russia.[20] It would have been far more appropriate for Leningrad Oblast to patronize a significant port city such as Mariupol. Its commitment instead to two small and insignificant towns suggests a certain lack of enthusiasm by Russian regional officials to take on the burdens of rebuilding large areas that Russian forces obliterated in the process of seizing.

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## BHAN85

The SC said:


> The new owner of the former McDonald's restaurant chain in Russia, Oleg Baruyev, announced that he chose the name "Fkosno e tochka" (yummy. point.) instead of the name McDonald's.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535944468012183552
> "I am very proud of the honor given to me by the development of this company. I am ambitious and plan not only to reopen the 850 restaurants, but also to develop new ones," Gofour said on Sunday.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535944500207550466
> Under the terms of the sale, Gofour agreed to keep McDonald's employees in Russia for at least two years, in addition to financing obligations owed to suppliers, property owners and utilities, according to the US company. McDonald's employed 62,000 people in Russia.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535944507296043012

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## PakFactor

The SC said:


> Poland called for the transfer of nuclear weapons to Ukraine. The country's former foreign minister said that Russia had violated the provisions of the Budapest Memorandum
> 
> "We, as the West, will have the right to give Ukraine nuclear warheads," Radoslav Sikorsky said.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535952363252600832
> View attachment 853543
> 
> 
> 
> How can they be West of the river if they didn't cross it..!?
> 
> Think..



I guess the Polish are also suffering from what we in Pakistan suffer from post-white withdrawal syndrome or commonly known as Brown Sab Syndrome in Pakistan.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536057576579813379

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536028855118577664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535994427738570753

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535923778017959937


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536159741558329344

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536060567382855680


PakFactor said:


> I guess the Polish are also suffering from what we in Pakistan suffer from post-white withdrawal syndrome or commonly known as Brown Sab Syndrome in Pakistan.



Poles yearn to be accepted by Germans but they are not accepted. They are just considered undermensch by Germans.

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## The SC

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536159741558329344
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536060567382855680
> 
> 
> Poles yearn to be accepted by Germans by they are not accepted. They are just considered undermensch by Germans.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535925663416438785

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## PakFactor

northeast said:


> There is no "we", poland is just a barking lapdog of USA. Are these European clowns simply stupid,naiive or they intentionally want to show the world or their master they are compelete morons and beg for mercy? Their egos are just as big as the whole universe.



They simply want to show the West they are more West then the West themselves, it's a sign of a low class race.

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## The SC

northeast said:


> There is no "we", poland is just a barking lapdog of USA. Are these European clowns simply stupid,naiive or they intentionally want to show the world or their master they are compelete morons and beg for mercy? Their egos are just as big as the whole universe.


NATO must be laughing their a** off.. Just a few decades ago these were Warsaw pact..now they re getting the best NATO weapons and tech.. but don't understand that they are in reality just a buffer zone..

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## sammuel

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536041173541961729



Yeh , sure :

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536019721216217090

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535910768784424965

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535908185403543553

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535905205526708227


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## S10

sammuel said:


> Yeh , sure :


What's your point? Mariupol will remain a pile of rubble forever?

Grozny took a bigger beating and it's perfectly fine today.

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## jhungary

Apollon said:


> Excellent move, getting Khersom back is a huge thing. Pussolini uses Kherson alot for his propaganda. The prime target must be to take Kherson back.


Still a long way to go, it's not a easy task, but probably for the first time Russia is going to taste their own medicine. 

Not sure how the Ukrainian is going to do it, maybe they will shell the area and then move in, but if it was me, I will try and flank around the city. 

On the other hand, Ukrainian took the village of Tavríjske as per Ukrainian internal ministry

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## The SC

Bloomberg, quoting sources: *China has warned the United States, during closed meetings in the past months, against trying to consider the Taiwan Strait as "international waters*."
@AsharqNewsBrk

*Urgent The Pentagon after Beijing's warnings to "Washington" regarding the Taiwan Strait*: We will continue to sail, fly and work in the region in accordance with international law
@AsharqNewsBrk

China to US: Taiwan Strait 'no longer part of international waters'
*A very strong message and threat from China in the face of America.*
@Chinanws22

🧧China: The army is preparing and getting ready, and the goal is to return Taiwan
America is warning and China is threatening to cut off the fingers that will interfere in China's affairs.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535813471513747457


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536179937773867008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536180846146756609

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536181387132379138


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## DF41

One of the many winners in Ukraine of Darwin Awards.  

More to come

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## jhungary

The bodies of Ukrainian fighters killed during the Azovstal steelworks siege are still awaiting retrieval – as it happened


This live blog is now closed, you can find our latest coverage of the Russia-Ukraine war here




www.theguardian.com





Seems like Russia destroyed the two bridge Ukrainian used to feed troop across Sievereodonetsk from Lysychansk

Shouldn't they need to take it instead of destroying it? Ukraine can still pull troop out without that bridge to as long as they hold the opposite bank on Lysychansk, but Russia will not be able to move heavy unit in for the next fight in Lysychansk without that bridge, I mean, we all saw how Russia "Tried" to cross the Siverskyi Donets River

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> The bodies of Ukrainian fighters killed during the Azovstal steelworks siege are still awaiting retrieval – as it happened
> 
> 
> This live blog is now closed, you can find our latest coverage of the Russia-Ukraine war here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like Russia destroyed the two bridge Ukrainian used to feed troop across Sievereodonetsk from Lysychansk
> 
> Shouldn't they need to take it instead of destroying it? Ukraine can still pull troop out without that bridge to as long as they hold the opposite bank on Lysychansk, but Russia will not be able to move heavy unit in for the next fight in Lysychansk without that bridge, I mean, we all saw how Russia "Tried" to cross the Siverskyi Donets River



Russia has heavy lift planes and helicopters. They don't need a bridge urgently. Once Severodonetsk is taken they use heavy lift planes and jets to transport troops and equipment across the river. On top of that, BMD-4M and BTR-82A light tanks are fully amphibious and don't need a bridge to cross the river. Destroying the bridge only starves Ukrainians in Severodonetsk.

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## jhungary

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia has heavy lift planes and helicopters. They don't need a bridge urgently. Once Severodonetsk is taken they use heavy lift planes and jets to transport troops and equipment across the river. On top of that, BMD-4M and BTR-82A light tanks are fully amphibious and don't need a bridge to cross the river. Destroying the bridge only starves Ukrainians in Severodonetsk.


Sure, fly in Mi-26 and let them got shot down with even stinger one by one carrying one tank each, and then land where? In the middle of Ukrainian formation??

Again, please do not reply to my post again, that's a waste of time talking to you in Military matter. Being associated with you on the matter actually hurt my reputation.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Sure, fly in Mi-26 and let them got shot down with even stinger one by one carrying one tank each, and then land where? In the middle of Ukrainian formation??
> 
> Again, please do not reply to my post again, that's a waste of time talking to you in Military matter. Being associated with you on the matter actually hurt my reputation.



Stingers are already killed by attack helicopters. Once the bank is secured by amphibious light tanks like BTR-82A and BMD-4M, they can build a pontoon bridge over the river to transport main battle tanks and self propelled artillery over.

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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535373643164925954

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536155512072712192

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## Viet

The casualty rate runs 1,000 men per day among Russian soldiers in the battle of Sjewjerodonezk. They die like flies. Says Luhansker Gouverneur Serhij Hajdaj.






Russische Soldaten gehen durch einen zerstörten Bereich des Iljitsch Eisen- und Stahlwerks Mariupol.
(Foto: picture alliance/dpa/AP)





__





Opferzahlen oder Propaganda?: Russische Soldaten "sterben wie die Fliegen" - n-tv.de


Die Schlacht an der ukrainischen Ostfront geht weiter. Obwohl die russische Armee Fortschritte macht, sterben nach ukrainischen Angaben reihenweise russische Soldaten. Die Zahlen sind nicht unabhängig überprüfbar - nach ukrainischen Angaben belaufen sich die russischen Opferzahlen jedoch auf...



amp.n-tv.de

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## sammuel

S10 said:


> What's your point? Mariupol will remain a pile of rubble forever?



Funny you did not ask " What's your point ? " to the guy that posted the photo :

" life go to normal in Mariupol "

There you go :


life go to normal in Mariupol :







~


----------



## Madni Bappa

DF41 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535373643164925954
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536155512072712192


I hope Ukraine looses. And then these Nazis run amuck in Europe like AlQouda etc

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> The casualty rate runs 1,000 men per day among Russian soldiers in the battle of Sjewjerodonezk. They die like flies. Says Luhansker Gouverneur Serhij Hajdaj.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russische Soldaten gehen durch einen zerstörten Bereich des Iljitsch Eisen- und Stahlwerks Mariupol.
> (Foto: picture alliance/dpa/AP)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Opferzahlen oder Propaganda?: Russische Soldaten "sterben wie die Fliegen" - n-tv.de
> 
> 
> Die Schlacht an der ukrainischen Ostfront geht weiter. Obwohl die russische Armee Fortschritte macht, sterben nach ukrainischen Angaben reihenweise russische Soldaten. Die Zahlen sind nicht unabhängig überprüfbar - nach ukrainischen Angaben belaufen sich die russischen Opferzahlen jedoch auf...
> 
> 
> 
> amp.n-tv.de



Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. Russia can afford heavy losses. Ukraine cannot. Donbas is heart of Russia. Unlike low Soviet morale in Afghanistan, Russians have very high morale in Donbas. Russia can afford millions of combat losses. Ukraine cannot.

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## Viet

Ukraine army completely destroyed the notorious neonazi wagner group base at Luhansk by attack. Only one survived.





Die zerstörte Basis der Wagner-Gruppe. - Twitter / @serhey_hayday

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## S10

sammuel said:


> Funny you did not ask " What's your point ? " to the guy that posted the photo :
> 
> " life go to normal in Mariupol "
> 
> There you go :
> 
> 
> life go to normal in Mariupol :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~



People repair damages and reconstruct buildings after fighting is over. They also try to adapt and return to their old lives. It might been too much for your brain to handle, so take it in slowly.

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## ZeGerman

PakFactor said:


> They simply want to show the West they are more West then the West themselves, it's a sign of a low class race.


A sign of low class race is talking nonsence based on nothing but lack of information and intelligence. 

Read up on their history.
soviets allied with hitler, invaded them to divide their nation.
The russians later stood by and watched the germans genocide them during the warsaw rebellion
Then executed 20.000 of freed polish from the german prison camps to “soften them up” for….
Many years of occupation. 
Rewriting their borders while they were at it and relocating as they saw fit. 

Now russia is doing similar to ukraine what they perceive as a very close neighbour/brother state. As polish/hkranian ties are pretty strong. Now hosting 4 million ukranian refugees.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Mi-28UB Havoc artillery smashing helicopter in Donbas


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535929989060780032

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> The casualty rate runs 1,000 men per day among Russian soldiers in the battle of Sjewjerodonezk. They die like flies. Says Luhansker Gouverneur Serhij Hajdaj.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russische Soldaten gehen durch einen zerstörten Bereich des Iljitsch Eisen- und Stahlwerks Mariupol.
> (Foto: picture alliance/dpa/AP)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Opferzahlen oder Propaganda?: Russische Soldaten "sterben wie die Fliegen" - n-tv.de
> 
> 
> Die Schlacht an der ukrainischen Ostfront geht weiter. Obwohl die russische Armee Fortschritte macht, sterben nach ukrainischen Angaben reihenweise russische Soldaten. Die Zahlen sind nicht unabhängig überprüfbar - nach ukrainischen Angaben belaufen sich die russischen Opferzahlen jedoch auf...
> 
> 
> 
> amp.n-tv.de


ISW said Russia is trying to raise a third BTG from the current structure. With a Regiment just over 2000 men, they aren't going to get much other than bunch ineffective unit together. That is quite desperate act, which mean they are losing a lot of men for sure, may even be more than Ukrainian Casualty.

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## ZeGerman

DF41 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535373643164925954
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536155512072712192


Mccain is a hawk from the usa. Enough with this “west” generalisation when germany wanted closer ties.

The war in donbass was still off and on then, and at 1.50 he is clearly talking about other countries as in the baltic states or georgia/moldova. 

Nothing avbout “The west is done” jesus christ do you even watch the propaganda before you post it?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536046494326919168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536126151755694085

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536047336190840832

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## Madni Bappa

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536046494326919168
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536126151755694085
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536047336190840832


A lot of WW2 equipment being used man 😱. I am shocked

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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. Russia can afford heavy losses. Ukraine cannot. Donbas is heart of Russia. Unlike low Soviet morale in Afghanistan, Russians have very high morale in Donbas. Russia can afford millions of combat losses. Ukraine cannot.


Those young Russians could be alive instead of dying in a worthless war. What would you say to their mothers? Hey your sons died while trying to hunt Nazi?


----------



## mike2000 is back

The SC said:


> NATO must be laughing their a** off.. Just a few decades ago these were Warsaw pact..now they re getting the best NATO weapons and tech.. but don't understand that they are in reality just a buffer zone..


What Bullshit are you people spoutting on here?. Poland and other Eastern European countries are wary of their historical enemy and former colonial master Russia. Of course their interests aligns with that of the Western powers, so why would they not seek a common goal together and ally together with western powers to ward off Russian influence and yoke over them? 
You expect them to face Russia by themselves all alone? What kind of stupidity is that? Lol 
It's like saying Saudi Arabia and other Arab states don't have their own interests and threats from Iran, they are just buffer for western powers. Will you also agree with such a statement as well? Lol 😁
In fact using some pakistanis logic here as well, Pakistan doesn't have its own interests and threats from India, Pakistan was/is just a buffer for the West/China against India . See how stupid that sounds? Lol 
You guys should count yourself lucky that you don't share a border or are close to Russia..else you will all be saying something different today, that's even if you will have a country today in the first place. 🤣 just look at how much teriritory countries like Persia(Iran) and Turkey(ottomans and Turkey later) lost due to Russia, same with China who lost vast territory to Russia and could have lost even more..or Japan who lost similar territory to Russia to this day..Then you will understand how lucky you guys are not to be too close to Russia. You will barely have any country left if you were close to Moscow.. 🤣 some of you seem to think Russia is some cute harmless Teddy bear 🧸 🐻 🤣😂

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> ISW said Russia is trying to raise a third BTG from the current structure. With a Regiment just over 2000 men, they aren't going to get much other than bunch ineffective unit together. That is quite desperate act, which mean they are losing a lot of men for sure, may even be more than Ukrainian Casualty.


Putin will call general mobilization. Don’t matter much, few thousands men will go in few days if lucky in few months. Once Ukraine receives mass of western weapons then the war will intensify and causes more deaths.


----------



## Primus

DF41 said:


> It is Murica NATO and Murica running doggies that think Russia is harmless teddy bear.
> 
> *RUSSIA IS THIS AND MORE
> 
> View attachment 853592
> *
> View attachment 853593
> 
> View attachment 853594
> View attachment 853595


Ive been meaning to say this for some time since i first saw those pics you uploaded....


Thats pretty cringe


----------



## DF41

Huffal said:


> Ive been meaning to say this for some time since i first saw those pics you uploaded....
> 
> 
> Thats pretty cringe










*CAN BE NICE AND FRIENDLY TO THOSE THAT ARE FRIENDS AND NEED PROTECTION FROM EVIL DECEITFUL CHEATING LYING MURICANS

BUT STILL, DEFINATELY NOT A F*CKING TEDDY BEAR AS THOUGHT OF BY MURICA AND NATO IDIOTS 






*

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536255029815959553

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536243708877750272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536086870978854912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536056711584309249

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536243708877750272
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536086870978854912
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536056711584309249


Oh finland wants to join. 
But They are showing solidarity with sweden. Putting extra pressure on Turkey.

Lets see how far erdogan wants to pushback on the matter.

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## ZeGerman

DF41 said:


> *CAN BE NICE AND FRIENDLY TO THOSE THAT ARE FRIENDS AND NEED PROTECTION FROM EVIL DECEITFUL CHEATING LYING MURICANS
> 
> BUT STILL, DEFINATELY NOT A F*CKING TEDDY BEAR AS THOUGHT OF BY MURICA AND NATO IDIOTS
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 853612
> *


If anything, america and nato have over-inflated russian capabilities. Many even thinking this war would take a week…

The “near peer” competitor we always heard scary stories about has major trouble with ukraine. 
Let alone including other european countries
Let alone including the big hitters france and britain.
And definately let alone including america as well. The full Nato might.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536290527460700161


ZeGerman said:


> If anything, america and nato have over-inflated russian capabilities. Many even thinking this war would take a week…
> 
> The “near peer” competitor we always heard scary stories about has major trouble with ukraine.
> Let alone including other european countries
> Let alone including the big hitters france and britain.
> And definately let alone including america as well. The full Nato might.



The so called bear hasn't even achieved air superiority against Ukraine after 4 months of war,lost its flagship to a country that doesn't have a navy,couldn't achieve minor objectives on the ground yet some believe they could challenge NATO. NATO would totally erase those drunkards,the level of destruction Russians have witnessed in Ukraine is nothing compared to what NATO could do to them.

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## Primus

DF41 said:


> *CAN BE NICE AND FRIENDLY TO THOSE THAT ARE FRIENDS AND NEED PROTECTION FROM EVIL DECEITFUL CHEATING LYING MURICANS
> 
> BUT STILL, DEFINATELY NOT A F*CKING TEDDY BEAR AS THOUGHT OF BY MURICA AND NATO IDIOTS
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 853612
> *


Okay that pic is kinda cute but still kinda cringe

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536321134882349057

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## wahhab0202

Viet said:


> The casualty rate runs 1,000 men per day among Russian soldiers in the battle of Sjewjerodonezk. They die like flies. Says Luhansker Gouverneur Serhij Hajdaj.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russische Soldaten gehen durch einen zerstörten Bereich des Iljitsch Eisen- und Stahlwerks Mariupol.
> (Foto: picture alliance/dpa/AP)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Opferzahlen oder Propaganda?: Russische Soldaten "sterben wie die Fliegen" - n-tv.de
> 
> 
> Die Schlacht an der ukrainischen Ostfront geht weiter. Obwohl die russische Armee Fortschritte macht, sterben nach ukrainischen Angaben reihenweise russische Soldaten. Die Zahlen sind nicht unabhängig überprüfbar - nach ukrainischen Angaben belaufen sich die russischen Opferzahlen jedoch auf...
> 
> 
> 
> amp.n-tv.de


you are so desperate man. NATO asking Ukraina si sit on negotiation table and cede some territories. They won't do it if they know 1000 of Russian soldiers die or severely wounded everyday.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536243708877750272



Smerch recently received 120 km range GLONASS guided rounds. Could be using these to target ammo warehouses.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536223829067956228

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536328984555929604

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## Wood

Russia says it has slowed inflation and kept unemployment steady despite the West's sanctions. 2 experts break down Putin's spin on the numbers.


President Putin's regime makes exporters convert their earnings into rubles. Companies exiting Russia are winding down businesses in an orderly way.




www.businessinsider.com







> Moscow has managed to prop up the ruble through a slate of capital control measures, including ordering companies to convert up to 80% of their foreign currency earnings into rubles. The energy powerhouse has also managed to compel Western European companies, such as German energy giant Uniper and Italy's Eni, to open special accounts to pay for their Russian natural gas imports in rubles — or risk their fuel getting cut off. The moves generate demand for Russian rubles and support its value, keeping inflation in check.
> 
> A drop in exports also helped to support the* ruble as importers now have less demand for foreign currencies, t*he Russian central bank wrote in a May report, as reported by Interfax.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536306220461608961

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536304851717701632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536302777357459457

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536300528896028675

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536327258536828934

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536285714467495937

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536302040539967490

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## Apollon

wahhab0202 said:


> you are so desperate man. NATO asking Ukraina si sit on negotiation table and cede some territories. They won't do it if they know 1000 of Russian soldiers die or severely wounded everyday.



Oh realy? You know what we and Putin have in common? Both sides give a shit how much russians die


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536327094996807681


Apollon said:


> Russia where 70% have no toilet and electricity



reported to mods

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536351883492728835

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536351885346709505


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536363376636567552

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## Elvin

It will be funny to see Wagner mercenaries and "volunteers" get caught by Ukrainian troops and sentenced to death.

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## F-22Raptor

Reports that Ukrainian recon units are only 10km from Kherson.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> Reports that Ukrainian recon units are only 10km from Kherson.



Kherson is a big city. Ukraine will never take it back.

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## DF41

Huffal said:


> Okay that pic is kinda cute but still kinda cringe









I cannot imagine how those I chucked into where sun and moon not shine and cockroaches roamed about them and on the used toilet tissues there will *CRINGE *at sights of those nice lovely Russian bears.

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## Viet

wahhab0202 said:


> you are so desperate man. NATO asking Ukraina si sit on negotiation table and cede some territories. They won't do it if they know 1000 of Russian soldiers die or severely wounded everyday.


Keep laughing. War costs money. I read Putin pays 12.4 million rubles for every dead soldier. Not much for Putin because he is rich. However huge money for the poor families where the most soldiers originate.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536268156163051522


----------



## The SC

mike2000 is back said:


> What Bullshit are you people spoutting on here?. Poland and other Eastern European countries are wary of their historical enemy and former colonial master Russia. Of course their interests aligns with that of the Western powers, so why would they not seek a common goal together and ally together wirh westeen powers to ward off Russian influence and yoke over them?
> You expect them to face Russia by themselves all alone? What kind of stupidity is that? Lol
> It's like saying Saudi Arabia and other Arab states don't have their own interests and threats from Iran, they are just buffer for western powers. Will you also agree with such a statement as well? Lol 😁
> In fact using some pakistanis logic here as well, Pakistan doesn't have its own interests and threats from India, Pakistan was/is just a buffer for the West/China against India . See how stupid that sounds? Lol
> You guys should count yourself lucky that you don't share a border or are close to Russia..else you will all be saying something different today, that's even if you will have a country today in the first place. 🤣 just look at how much teriritory countries like Persia(Iran) and Turkey(ottomans and Turkey later) lost due to Russia, same with China who lost vast territory to Russia and could have lost even more..or Japan who lost similar territory to Russia to this day..Then you will understand how lucky you guys are not to be too close to Russia. You will barely have any country left if you were close to Moscow.. 🤣 some of you seem to think Russia is some cute harmless Teddy bear 🧸 🐻 🤣😂


You got it all switched on the side..we are talking about NATO.. and you are comparing oranges with apples.. 😂

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## northeast

Viet said:


> Keep laughing. War costs money. I read Putin pays 12.4 million rubles for every dead soldier. Not much for Putin because he is rich. However huge money for the poor families where the most soldiers originate.


You still have no clue who is paying the money,do you? It's the europeans whom paid the money for russia to continue this war.

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## Viet

northeast said:


> You still have no clue who is paying the money,do you? It's the europeans whom paid the money for russia to continue this war. You are totally clueless,pathetic..


It’s only EU who paying the war bill? It’s you the dummy. There are lots more. Guess who.


----------



## northeast

Viet said:


> It’s only EU who paying the war bill? It’s you the dummy. There are lots more. Guess who.


LOL,we get discount, USA have enough oil, indian import cheap russian oil and resell that to EU. EU is the biggest loser and you are also the biggest source of money that flow into russia. Even an idiet could see that...

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## RoadAmerica

S10 said:


> What's your point? Mariupol will remain a pile of rubble forever?
> 
> Grozny took a bigger beating and it's perfectly fine today.
> 
> View attachment 853561


As long as Russia controls it, oh wait it will be a beach resort 🤣


----------



## Viet

northeast said:


> LOL,we get discount, USA have enough oil, indian import cheap russian oil and resell that to EU. EU is the biggest loser and you are also the biggest source of money that flow into russia. Even an idiet could see that...


Yes unfinished we rely on oil and gas. Putin is like a drug dealer. He starts a war, pushes up the prices, causes artificial shortages to earn more money. He pushes the prices $20 higher and give you a discount of $10, you feel happy. He cares little when people suffer hunger and famine.

Everything goes according to plan.

- Vladimir Putin


----------



## jhungary

wahhab0202 said:


> you are so desperate man. NATO asking Ukraina si sit on negotiation table and cede some territories. They won't do it if they know 1000 of Russian soldiers die or severely wounded everyday.


Well, considering NATO always wanted Ukraine to negotiate with Russia since day 1. This probably have no bearing on how many people Russia had lost.

On the other hand, Russia increase the age of military service and try to raise unit from non-existing regiment on paper both point to Russia have a high turn over rate on soldier. Otherwise they wouldn't do any of that if their lost is minimal.



Elvin said:


> It will be funny to see Wagner mercenaries and "volunteers" get caught by Ukrainian troops and sentenced to death.


They kind of did, and sentence him to life imprisonment...



northeast said:


> *LOL,we get discount,* USA have enough oil, indian import cheap russian oil and resell that to EU. EU is the biggest loser and you are also the biggest source of money that flow into russia. Even an idiet could see that...



Yes, only idiot would say "We get discount" still didn't know you also pay the Russian and then call the other idiots for financing the war.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536417482101112832


----------



## Ali_Baba

Su-34 bomber aircraft destroyed​








Ukraine LIVE: Putin disaster as fighter jet destroyed and 150 troops killed in brutal day


VLADIMIR Putin's forces continue to suffer significant losses - as 150 men were killed and a £41million Su-34 bomber aircraft destroyed in just one day.




www.express.co.uk

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## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536358292708110339

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1


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536421907679129600

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## kingQamaR

Interesting that so many commentators on here seem very keen to welcome energy poverty for millions of their fellow citizens. All very useful for the Marxist/Leninist Net Zero agenda. None of this will make any difference to the Ukrainian war - Russia is funded by China and India


----------



## Abid123

Steppe Wolff said:


> Ukraine’s own Defense Ministry recently said that the amount of weaponry they received was enough to stop any European Army except the Russian Federation.
> 
> Russian Forces made some serious miscalculations in the first phases of the conflict but right now their Artillery is making minced meat out the Ukrainian.
> 
> Western Trolls here try to portray Russians as a third world military power but right now Russians are crushing Ukrainians in Donbass. Odessa is next.


Inshallah Donbass is next brother.

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## Ali_Baba

Additional Update on Su34 shoot down :









Zelensky's heroes shoot down Putin's elite £41million Su-34 bomber over Ukraine city


UKRAINIAN forces have shot down an elite Russian plane in the latest victory over Putin's invasion.




www.express.co.uk

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536424104957460480


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536444709861740544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536434489672572928

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536407159424139264

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536433115090063360


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536442730947260417


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## The SC

Last Route Out of Sievierodonetsk Falls as Russian Artillery Pounds the City




​https://english.aawsat.com/home/art...rodonetsk-falls-russian-artillery-pounds-city ​

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## 925boy

kingQamaR said:


> He won't, he couldn't handle NATO's combined power


Current Ukraine war proves this to be a lie..i thought u were smarter than this?

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## F-22Raptor

925boy said:


> Current Ukraine war proves this to be a lie..i thought u were smarter than this?




Ukraine doesn’t have anywhere close to the firepower the US can bring. 

Don’t know what your talking about. Ukraine has no navy and a very small Air Force. The US has 10,000+ cruise missile arsenal and several hundred thousand bombs. Not to mention the Army and Marine Corps.

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## 925boy

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraine doesn’t have anywhere close to the firepower the US can bring.
> 
> Don’t know what your talking about. Ukraine has no navy and a very small Air Force. The US has 10,000+ cruise missile arsenal and several hundred thousand bombs. Not to mention the Army and Marine Corps.


What does all of this matter when US AS OF TODAY isnt ready, willing, motivated, able, coordinated, dedicated enough to even attack a country like Iran?

US military's "hands are tied" - US population wont authorize any additional funds for a military that's much better at shock and awe than winning the war (which was the last war US won actually?).

US doesnt win wars anymore, simple. Everyone especially knows this now that US left Ukraine to die in Russia's hands.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536456473538179075

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536424104957460480





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536053134866382848

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536334850055147523

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## The SC

Kyiv: Russian forces storm Severodonetsk and force Ukrainian forces out of the city center
@SkyNewsArabia_B


The last enclaves of Ukrainian nationalists are in the Severodonetsk industrial region.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536394334429380608

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536334850055147523

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## Abid123

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraine doesn’t have anywhere close to the firepower the US can bring.
> 
> Don’t know what your talking about. Ukraine has no navy and a very small Air Force. The US has 10,000+ cruise missile arsenal and several hundred thousand bombs. Not to mention the Army and Marine Corps.


So why are you not fighting the Russians in Ukraine?🙄

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536334850055147523

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536334850055147523

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536420657415831552

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536417450274996224
The liberation of Severodonetsk continues

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536367917591580672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536386327582744583

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536355534290489344

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536371866704613376

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## kingQamaR

Abid123 said:


> So why are you not fighting the Russians in Ukraine?🙄



it will be the end of the world WW3


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## ckf

Viet said:


> Yes unfinished we rely on oil and gas. Putin is like a drug dealer. He starts a war, pushes up the prices, causes artificial shortages to earn more money. He pushes the prices $20 higher and give you a discount of $10, you feel happy. He cares little when people suffer hunger and famine.
> 
> Everything goes according to plan.
> 
> - Vladimir Putin


Putin did not push up oil/gas prices, EU/US sanctions did. The rest of the world can buy oil at whatever price they can get since now we have two tier markets. It's like shopping at whole foods, or Walmart. Same products, but different prices.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536365626872274944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536384076457955331
Russian media: *Ukrainian forces bombed Donetsk with 100 "Grad" and "Organ" missiles within 30 minutes*
@AlArabiya_Brk



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536257648882065413

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536253443706429441

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## F-22Raptor

Abid123 said:


> So why are you not fighting the Russians in Ukraine?🙄



Why send in US soldiers when the Ukrainians are obliterating the Russians for US? By the end of this war, the Russians will be an exhausted force. 

The US has only given 30% of its Javelins, 25% of its Stingers, 100 towed howitzers, and less than 1,000 drones. US military support is only around $5B to date.

This is a very small portion of US firepower.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536270567887749120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536271530556014595

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536248792462376960

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## F-22Raptor

kingQamaR said:


> it will be the end of the world WW3



The US has given $5B in military support. This is nothing for the US. In return, the Russians get obliterated. 

That’s an obvious victory for the US.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536105442690187265

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536412377524092935
#Ukraine — *President Zelensky: The human cost of the Severdonetsk battles is "appalling"*
@Alhadath_Brk


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536387386296369153

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536370434878619648

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## ckf

F-22Raptor said:


> The US has given $5B in military support. This is nothing for the US. In return, the Russians get obliterated.
> 
> That’s an obvious victory for the US.


Your are so sadistic, why the fascination with Russian get obliterated? Such a simplistic view of the world when thousands of Ukrainians are paying with their lives to fight for the US victory, and for or what, a lousy few billion, and most of it keep by the Ukrainian oligarchs.

Ukraine is getting closer to $30B in weapons from US allies and is footing a lot of the bills for other countries as well(Poland sent nearly $7B in equipment). So $5Billion hides true nature of US investment in the war. 









The staggering amount of US military aid to Ukraine, explained in one chart


$9.8 billion — and that tranche for Ukraine is only part of the picture.




www.vox.com

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## kingQamaR

ckf said:


> Your are so sadistic, why the fascination with Russian get obliterated? Such a simplistic view of the world when thousands of Ukrainians are paying with their lives to fight for the US victory, and for or what, a lousy few billion, and most of it keep by the Ukrainian oligarchs.




Nato doesn't want Russia. They never did and they never will. If they wanted then now would be their best chance because the majority of the russian troops are in Ukraine


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## Abid123

F-22Raptor said:


> Why send in US soldiers when the Ukrainians are obliterating the Russians for US? By the end of this war, the Russians will be an exhausted force.
> 
> The US has only given 30% of its Javelins, 25% of its Stingers, 100 towed howitzers, and less than 1,000 drones. US military support is only around $5B to date.
> 
> This is a very small portion of US firepower.


Look at this troll man. Ukraine obliterating the Russians for US? 😂😂😂

What war are you watching? Your country could not even beat Afghan farmers armed with AK-47. Lol.. Talk about being incompetent.

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## kingQamaR

F-22Raptor said:


> The US has given $5B in military support. This is nothing for the US. In return, the Russians get obliterated.
> 
> That’s an obvious victory for the US.



Your threatening, swaggering, posturing is dangerous


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## The SC

Urgent |* International Red Cross: 5 million refugees in Europe, 7 million displaced people and 15 million in need of assistance due to the conflict in Ukraine*
@AJABreaking


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536410337670463490


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## jhungary

nangyale said:


> Sure, sure Mr Mexican, Chinese, Vietnamese, Porto Rican American Australian married to a Scandinavian woman.
> I am sure you have first cousins and in-laws from all the races present on this planet.
> If the Aliens ever landed, you probably will be the best Earth ambassador since you are all races in one.
> 
> Quite an accomplishment that is even before we get to all the jobs you have been doing in all corners of this small planet.


Again, only idiots would go after who the man is instead of what he said, are you an idiot?

On the other hand, there are people in PDF who have saw either me or all the documentation that support who I am what I am. That upto and included the management of this forum, or do you think they going to allow me to keep repeating all those "Lies" over the year without any consequence? So joke is on you pal.

Also, I never claim to be a Mexican, PUERTO Rican (Geez, you even misspell their nation) and it is not a heritage either, both being either Hispanic White or Hispanic.

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## zartosht

US empire crumbling before our eyes.

Western regime/media selected "president of venezuela" (or the "international community" as they call themselves)

attacked and thrown out of a restaurant by furious venezuelans. This guy colloborated with the CIA to impose crippling economic warfare on the venezuelan people and coup his way into power with american muscle.






Zelensky faces a similar future, once the ukrainian people see he sacrificed their entire country to enrich his family, and advance western geopolitical aims.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536335414193184768

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536265025542926336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536268891160199170
Urgent | *Russian Defense: Destruction of a large amount of American and European weapons in the outskirts of Donetsk with high-precision missiles*
@AJABreaking

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## 925boy

Apollon said:


> Russia controlled 34% of Ukraine in march, now only 19% by June.


Proof please? Let me confirm your facts before i engage with you.

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## F-22Raptor

Abid123 said:


> Look at this troll man. Ukraine obliterating the Russians for US? 😂😂😂
> 
> What war are you watching? Your country could not even beat Afghan farmers armed with AK-47. Lol.. Talk about being incompetent.




The US overthrew the Taliban in 1 month back in 2001 and occupied that country for 20 years. We left because the Afghan people refuse to fight for their own country. 

And yes the Ukrainians are obliterating the Russian military, which is a clear strategic victory for the US. It’s in the US strategic interest to see the Russian military exhausted. 

That’s why the Pentagon no longer views Russia as a long term threat.

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## dani92

F-22Raptor said:


> The US overthrew the Taliban in 1 month back in 2001 and occupied that country for 20 years. We left because the Afghan people refuse to fight for their own country.
> 
> And yes the Ukrainians are obliterating the Russian military, which is a clear strategic victory for the US. It’s in the US strategic interest to see the Russian military exhausted.
> 
> That’s why the Pentagon no longer views Russia as a long term threat.


You don’t compare Ukraine which backed by the west with taliban or saddam also Russia didn’t even use its full military force.

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## K_Bin_W

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536456473538179075


Just like the rest I am sure Russia will destroy them too.

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## Abid123

F-22Raptor said:


> The US overthrew the Taliban in 1 month back in 2001 and occupied that country for 20 years. We left because the Afghan people refuse to fight for their own country.
> 
> And yes the Ukrainians are obliterating the Russian military, which is a clear strategic victory for the US. It’s in the US strategic interest to see the Russian military exhausted.
> 
> That’s why the Pentagon no longer views Russia as a long term threat.


Great excuse 😂 Check the result😉









War in Afghanistan (2001–2021) - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536502837886308352

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536501604186193920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536457998704553992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536454914439884802

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## Abid123

zartosht said:


> US empire crumbling before our eyes.
> 
> Western regime/media selected "president of venezuela" (or the "international community" as they call themselves)
> 
> attacked and thrown out of a restaurant by furious venezuelans. This guy colloborated with the CIA to impose crippling economic warfare on the venezuelan people and coup his way into power with american muscle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zelensky faces a similar future, once the ukrainian people see he sacrificed their entire country to enrich his family, and advance western geopolitical aims.


Which country is the video filmed in?


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## kingQamaR

F-22Raptor said:


> The US overthrew the Taliban in 1 month back in 2001 and occupied that country for 20 years. We left because the Afghan people refuse to fight for their own country.
> 
> And yes the Ukrainians are obliterating the Russian military, which is a clear strategic victory for the US. It’s in the US strategic interest to see the Russian military exhausted.
> 
> That’s why the Pentagon no longer views Russia as a long term threat.



You’re not really asking, are you? I assume you know the answer, and this is a rhetorical question.

First, I’m not going to give you the full cultural lesson on Afghanistan, I’m going to answer your question.

Everyone loses in Afghanistan. Everyone lost in Vietnam, too. “Win” is a term bandied


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## zartosht

Abid123 said:


> Which country is the video filmed in?


 venezuela
this clown is currently recognized by virtually all the western regimes as the "legitimate president of venezuela"

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536439175578275842

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536313335263768576

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## F-22Raptor

kingQamaR said:


> You’re not really asking, are you? I assume you know the answer, and this is a rhetorical question.
> 
> First, I’m not going to give you the full cultural lesson on Afghanistan, I’m going to answer your question.
> 
> Everyone loses in Afghanistan. Everyone lost in Vietnam, too. “Win” is a term bandied



The US could have stayed in Afghanistan ad infinitum, but there was no need to. The US had already achieved its main objective of destroying Al Qaeda. Would we have liked to see the Taliban out of power? Sure, but that was up for Afghans to decide. If their not going to fight for their country, why would the US?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536143425329942531


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## ckf

F-22Raptor said:


> The US overthrew the Taliban in 1 month back in 2001 and occupied that country for 20 years. We left because the Afghan people refuse to fight for their own country.
> 
> And yes the Ukrainians are obliterating the Russian military, which is a clear strategic victory for the US. It’s in the US strategic interest to see the Russian military exhausted.
> 
> That’s why the Pentagon no longer views Russia as a long term threat.


That's not what US intelligence is saying. 









DC shifts to damage control as Ukraine defense fades


Having made multiple declarations that Russia would cease to be a world power after the Ukraine war, President Biden and his top officials are now focused on damage control – warning Ukraine throug…




asiatimes.com












U.S. Lacks a Clear Picture of Ukraine’s War Strategy, Officials Say


Intelligence agencies know far more about Russia’s military, even as the United States ships billions of dollars in weapons to the Ukrainians.




www.nytimes.com

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536390654183473153

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## F-22Raptor

ckf said:


> Your are so sadistic, why the fascination with Russian get obliterated? Such a simplistic view of the world when thousands of Ukrainians are paying with their lives to fight for the US victory, and for or what, a lousy few billion, and most of it keep by the Ukrainian oligarchs.




Why would I not want to see the Russian Nazis destroyed?


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536255320107909120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536270569724952578

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536252034734751744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536248792462376960

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## Abid123

zartosht said:


> venezuela
> this clown is currently recognized by virtually all the western regimes as the "legitimate president of venezuela"


I watched the video on Richard Medhurst channel.

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> You’re not really asking, are you? I assume you know the answer, and this is a rhetorical question.
> 
> First, I’m not going to give you the full cultural lesson on Afghanistan, I’m going to answer your question.
> 
> Everyone loses in Afghanistan. Everyone lost in Vietnam, too. “Win” is a term bandied


About Afghanistan.

Think of it this way, you have a very rich uncle. Your life long dream is to graduate from Harvard (Or Oxford or what have you) and your uncle say I will pay for you tuition, I will pay for your private Tutor, I will pay you during your study and I will even study with you. 

Now, if you can't get into Harvard because you use the money your uncle gave you to buy a Ferrari and instead of studying, you go partying. Even tho your uncle knows about this but he didn't stop you, so is it exactly your uncle fault you can't get into Harvard??

There are no "Win" in Afghanistan, we could have stay there for another 20 or 40 years, it wouldn't change the fact that their heart is not in the right place, most Afghan don't want war, and they don't care who is in charge, and the government is corrupted to the core. Actually, it would probably be a lot better to do a Russia in Ukraine and start annexing Afghanistan and gave them all US passport....But why would we do that??

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536093994412810242

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536373301685194752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536391485100277764

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536509220278915073


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## RoadAmerica

K_Bin_W said:


> Just like the rest I am sure Russia will destroy them too.


Oh yeh just like aaaaallll the rest. Those tanks and choppers are just magically being destroyed 🤦🏿‍♂️


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## The SC

Russia's permanent representative to the United Nations, Vasily Nebenzia, said that Moscow will soon complete the "liberation" of the Donetsk and Lugansk republics.

In an interview with the BBC, Vasily Nebenzia said: "Given the time when you will witness the liberation of all Donetsk and Lugansk states, which we hope will happen soon. You asked me what the plan is. The initial plan, the objectives of the operation which we publicly announced were the neutrality of Ukraine, its disarmament and the de-Nazification of the country. The liberation of Donbass was the main goal that is being implemented at the moment.”

The Russian diplomat added: “They continue to bomb Nikolaev, Kramatorsk, Slaviansk and Odessa. They bombed their residential areas. There is evidence and testimonies from prisoners of war.”

Nebenzia claimed that the Ukrainian armed forces deployed their troops and heavy artillery in residential areas and social facilities, thus prolonging the duration of the Russian special military operation.

Kyiv recently acquired several artillery pieces from its Western allies such as the United States and Norway.

Ukraine's Defense Ministry recently said that fighting in the eastern part of the country, including Donetsk and Luhansk, had reached its limit.


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## wahhab0202

Viet said:


> Keep laughing. War costs money. I read Putin pays 12.4 million rubles for every dead soldier. Not much for Putin because he is rich. However huge money for the poor families where the most soldiers originate.


You start to sound like Tai Hai Chen a.k.a Superboy or whatever account he use in the past.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536496332482961408

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## wahhab0202

jhungary said:


> Well, considering NATO always wanted Ukraine to negotiate with Russia since day 1. This probably have no bearing on how many people Russia had lost.
> 
> On the other hand, Russia increase the age of military service and try to raise unit from non-existing regiment on paper both point to Russia have a high turn over rate on soldier. Otherwise they wouldn't do any of that if their lost is minimal.
> 
> 
> They kind of did, and sentence him to life imprisonment...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, only idiot would say "We get discount" still didn't know you also pay the Russian and then call the other idiots for financing the war.


NATO ask Zelensky to negotiate since long time yes. But never they ask him to cede some territories before. So why now? To me you seems to be a professional military professional and I know you don't believe that Russia is loosing 1000 of soldiers each day in this conflict. In fact anybody with little common sense won't buy it.



Apollon said:


> Oh realy? You know what we and Putin have in common? Both sides give a shit how much russians die


Okay, then ask NATO to stop pushing Zelensky for negotiation and ceding territories. At least until Ukraine is landlocked without any chance to regain all the lost territories in the future.

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## kingQamaR

F-22Raptor said:


> The US could have stayed in Afghanistan ad infinitum, but there was no need to. The US had already achieved its main objective of destroying Al Qaeda. Would we have liked to see the Taliban out of power? Sure, but that was up for Afghans to decide. If their not going to fight for their country, why would the US?



The United States has been there for 20 years.

That’s longer than the Civil War, World War II and the Korean War combined.

If it can’t be finished in 20 years, it was probably not a good idea in the first place.

However you are welcome to go over and do your part, no one is stopping you.

forever wars, such as Afghanistan and Iraq, are the kind of thing that destroy a country‘s treasury and doom empires.

Afghanistan was a bad idea 20 years ago, and it’s a bad idea now.

Occupying countries is never a great idea. Hopefully someday America will learn this.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

wahhab0202 said:


> NATO ask Zelensky to negotiate since long time yes. But never they ask him to cede some territories before. So why now? To me you seems to be a professional military professional and I know you don't believe that Russia is loosing 1000 of soldiers each day in this conflict. In fact anybody with little common sense won't buy it.
> 
> 
> Okay, then ask NATO to stop pushing Zelensky for negotiation and ceding territories. At least until Ukraine is landlocked without any chance to regain all the lost territories in the future.



Unless 1 Ukrainian soldier can kill 10 Russian soldiers, it's going to be tough for Ukraine to win considering Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine.

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## Viet

wahhab0202 said:


> You start to sound like Tai Hai Chen a.k.a Superboy or whatever account he use in the past.


You think I made joke?
Most of soldiers Putin sends to war come from poor, underprivileged families. Many come from the eastern part of Russia, from religious ethnic minorities. That is what was found out under the dead soldiers.









Putins Armee der Armen und schlecht vernetzten? Wen der Kreml-Chef für sich in den Krieg ziehen lässt


Aus den ärmsten Regionen im Osten Russlands kommen viele Soldaten im Ukraine-Krieg und gehören oft religiösen Minderheiten an: Putins Planung kommt das zugute.




www.merkur.de

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## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> About Afghanistan.
> 
> Think of it this way, you have a very rich uncle. Your life long dream is to graduate from Harvard (Or Oxford or what have you) and your uncle say I will pay for you tuition, I will pay for your private Tutor, I will pay you during your study and I will even study with you.
> 
> Now, if you can't get into Harvard because you use the money your uncle gave you to buy a Ferrari and instead of studying, you go partying. Even tho your uncle knows about this but he didn't stop you, so is it exactly your uncle fault you can't get into Harvard??
> 
> There are no "Win" in Afghanistan, we could have stay there for another 20 or 40 years, it wouldn't change the fact that their heart is not in the right place, most Afghan don't want war, and they don't care who is in charge, and the government is corrupted to the core. Actually, it would probably be a lot better to do a Russia in Ukraine and start annexing Afghanistan and gave them all US passport....But why would we do that??



The US invaded Afghanistan over 18 years ago. It is one of the longest wars in modern history.

It has FAILED. That is why the US iwithdrawing troops.

If anyone looks on a map, Afghanistan is VERY far away. Too far for the US to project force adequately.

Time was for the US to take its bat and ball and go home, with its tail between its legs

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## wahhab0202

jhungary said:


> About Afghanistan.
> 
> Think of it this way, you have a very rich uncle. Your life long dream is to graduate from Harvard (Or Oxford or what have you) and your uncle say I will pay for you tuition, I will pay for your private Tutor, I will pay you during your study and I will even study with you.
> 
> Now, if you can't get into Harvard because you use the money your uncle gave you to buy a Ferrari and instead of studying, you go partying. Even tho your uncle knows about this but he didn't stop you, so is it exactly your uncle fault you can't get into Harvard??
> 
> There are no "Win" in Afghanistan, we could have stay there for another 20 or 40 years, it wouldn't change the fact that their heart is not in the right place, most Afghan don't want war, and they don't care who is in charge, and the government is corrupted to the core. Actually, it would probably be a lot better to do a Russia in Ukraine and start annexing Afghanistan and gave them all US passport....But why would we do that??


Unless, US doesn't want Afghanistan to go to Harvard or Oxford, hell no. US might want to use Afghan as their staging point to attack countries around it or may be want to suck it's natural resources dry or they want afghan to be their minion in democracy, I don't know for sure. But whatever it is, it is not and never about Afghan going to Oxford or Harvard.

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## The SC

The Stockholm Peace Research Institute predicts the growth of global nuclear arsenals in the next decade, as countries that possess this type of weapon continue to modernize their arsenals.

In the SIPRI Annual Book 2022, which assesses the current state of armaments, disarmament and international security, the institute explained that “the signs of declining nuclear arsenals in the post-Cold War period are disappearing among the nine nuclear-armed states (Russia, the United States, the United Kingdom, France, China, India, Pakistan, Israel and North Korea) continue to modernize their nuclear arsenals even though the total number of weapons decreased slightly between January 2021 and January 2022, and this number is likely to rise in the next decade.”

He added that "out of the total inventory estimated at 12,705 warheads at the beginning of 2022, there were about 9,440 in military stocks intended for potential use."

"Among these warheads, an estimated 3,732 warheads have been deployed by missiles and aircraft, and about 2,000 of them, most of them owned by Russia or the United States, have been placed on high operational alert," he added.

He noted that "although the total stocks of Russian and American warheads continued to decline in 2021, this was due to the dismantling of warheads that were retired from military service several years ago."

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## Viet

ckf said:


> Putin did not push up oil/gas prices, EU/US sanctions did. The rest of the world can buy oil at whatever price they can get since now we have two tier markets. It's like shopping at whole foods, or Walmart. Same products, but different prices.


You must live in parallel universe. The western sanctions just be a part of price hikes. Ukraine can’t export grain because Russia navy blockades the transports. Russia itself stops exports grain, fertilizer. I am shocked to see why many posters here themselves from poorer countries support Putin when he plays the hunger game.


----------



## wahhab0202

Viet said:


> You think I made joke?
> Most of soldiers Putin sends to war come from poor, underprivileged families. Many come from the eastern part of Russia, from religious ethnic minorities. That is what was found out under the dead soldiers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putins Armee der Armen und schlecht vernetzten? Wen der Kreml-Chef für sich in den Krieg ziehen lässt
> 
> 
> Aus den ärmsten Regionen im Osten Russlands kommen viele Soldaten im Ukraine-Krieg und gehören oft religiösen Minderheiten an: Putins Planung kommt das zugute.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.merkur.de


Yeahh sure. Some western media outlet even said Russia kidnapped Chechens to go to war in Ukraine. Off course this is true. Just like Dana White kidnapped Khamzat to Smash people in UFC and got paid for that.

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## jhungary

wahhab0202 said:


> Unless, US doesn't want Afghanistan to go to Harvard or Oxford, hell no. US might want to use Afghan as their staging point to attack countries around it or may be want to suck it's natural resources dry or they want afghan to be their minion in democracy, I don't know for sure. But whatever it is, it is not and never about Afghan going to Oxford or Harvard.


Well, tell me what Afghanistan can be used for then, and if so, as I said at the end, if we were to use it as a springboard to attack someone, would it be better off if we just annex the thing, I mean we have taken complete control of the country. There aren't really anyone or anything to stop us from stationing troop in Afghanistan permanently and start calling Afghan "American" 

As for natural resource, again, we have 20 years in that place literally controlling anything and everything. So tell me why of the 5 big mine in Afghan, 4 belong to China and 1 belong to India??

And finally, it's not about Afghan going to Harvard or Oxford. It's about letting Afghan be what they want to be.

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## Viet

wahhab0202 said:


> Yeahh sure. Some western media outlet even said Russia kidnapped Chechens to go to war in Ukraine. Off course this is true. Just like Dana White kidnapped Khamzat to Smash people in UFC and got paid for that.


That’s not however the world sees it the Russians go to war, especially the chechens, the neonazi Wagner fanatics because
- it makes fun.
- looting
- raping
- killing
- destroying
- have nothing else to do with their life


----------



## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> The US invaded Afghanistan over 18 years ago. It is one of the longest wars in modern history.
> 
> It has FAILED. That is why the US iwithdrawing troops.
> 
> If anyone looks on a map, Afghanistan is VERY far away. Too far for the US to project force adequately.
> 
> Time was for the US to take its bat and ball and go home, with its tail between its legs


Well, again, US has been there for 20 years, there are no problem to stay for another 20 or 40. It's not about Project power, the invasion alone is for that, name me one country who can rage a full blown war (actually, not one, but 2) that far away from home and can support that effort for that long. On the other hand, if Geographic is a problem, then explain to me how US can hold on to territories in West Pacific (Guam, CNMI) and South Pacific (American Samoa) even Hawaii itself is not feasible because of the distant. 

In short, US got bored and go home, I mean you have to expect it to end one day anyway, as I said, we are not planning on Annexing the place and put it like US territories like Guam or Samoa, which mean whatever and whenever we leave, it will up to the Afghan own device. 

And before you say "Taliban is not defeated so US failed' who said Taliban was to be defeated?? You do know they have publicity office in Qatar and US had not listed Taliban as a terrorist organisation. The US needed Taliban in place to deter Russia and China from Swooping in, as I said, we are going to leave sometime, so sure, let them leave with Ghani regime, which you know and I know is extremely corrupted and will probably be smack in the face with cash from the Chinese and Russia once US is gone, and on top of that, let's take care of Taliban for them when they took over, right??


----------



## jhungary

wahhab0202 said:


> NATO ask Zelensky to negotiate since long time yes. But never they ask him to cede some territories before. So why now? To me you seems to be a professional military professional and I know you don't believe that Russia is loosing 1000 of soldiers each day in this conflict. In fact anybody with little common sense won't buy it.


Are you for real? On day 1 of this conflict, NATO cable Zelenskyy to cede Donbas to Russia in order to avoid a full blown war because NATO didn't see anyway Ukrainian can fight this off, then when Mariupol is surrounded NATO talking about letting Russia have Mariupol and the Land Corridor. Now, 110 days has pass, we are still talking about this war.

In fact, Biden allegedly said that even before the war begin



'Absolutely False' Biden Pressured Ukraine to Cede Land to Russia to Avoid War: Psaki



Problem is not whether I believe 1000 soldier has been killed, what I see is Russia have a high turn over issue, otherwise they will not raise the age to serve now to 50 and will not try to raise Battalion out of nothing. Unless you can tell me why these measure is in place that's logical, that point to the Russia have force generation problem. Which usually mean they are upping the tempo or have had a lot of casualty they need to replace. If this is the first one, we would see an expanding of battlefield and more equipment roll into the war, and we don't see either of them.

I don't know how many soldier Russian killed in this war, I can take an educated guess from Open Source resource to have a ball park figure, but I wouldn't say the war is going smoothly toward the Russian, judging from the stuff that they do and reading it between the line.

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## letsrock

Viet said:


> You must live in parallel universe. The western sanctions just be a part of price hikes. Ukraine can’t export grain because Russia navy blockades the transports. Russia itself stops exports grain, fertilizer. I am shocked to see why many posters here themselves from poorer countries support Putin when he plays the hunger game.


with what will poor countries pay ? most of them hold reserves in usd which is now very difficult to play russia with.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

low flying Su-25 artillery smashing jet


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536491406482612225

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## DF41

nangyale said:


> Sure, sure Mr Mexican, Chinese, Vietnamese, Porto Rican American Australian married to a Scandinavian woman.
> I am sure you have first cousins and in-laws from all the races present on this planet.
> If the Aliens ever landed, you probably will be the best Earth ambassador since you are all races in one.
> 
> Quite an accomplishment that is even before we get to all the jobs you have been doing in all corners of this small planet.










But right now he is where the sun and moon not shine

And fending off the cockroaches trying to crawl into his nostrils and ears and mouth and other orifices
after they feasted on used toilet tissues and discarded condoms.

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## Muhammed45

West is winning this war on Twitter, Russia is advancing on the ground. 

We will have a new chapter in the world history, the fact that Russia abandoned Libya to be destroyed by western colonialists still hurts but late is better than never. 

This new chapter can begin with destruction of Israel, eastern powers can revive their past glories again. West the necessary evil is causing eastern civilizations continue to grow and thrive with mutual respect/understanding. 

Ukraine-Russia conflict will end one day but its consequences will remain forever.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536493695654060033

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536495429147303938

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## DF41

Abid123 said:


> Look at this troll man. Ukraine obliterating the Russians for US? 😂😂😂
> 
> What war are you watching? Your country could not even beat Afghan farmers armed with AK-47. Lol.. Talk about being incompetent.



I admire your patience.
Long long long ago, he placed into where sun and moon not shine and cockroaches roamed the used toilet papers and discarded condoms.


I think I rather go enjoy my coffee and smell roses then to see the rot only he could have dug up.
Probably with cockroaches crawling all about and in it and on it.

That I will not do .

As said, I go enjoy my coffee and roses













and smell roses


----------



## ckf

Viet said:


> You must live in parallel universe. The western sanctions just be a part of price hikes. Ukraine can’t export grain because Russia navy blockades the transports. Russia itself stops exports grain, fertilizer. I am shocked to see why many posters here themselves from poorer countries support Putin when he plays the hunger game.


Commodity price is based on supply and demand, which you admit its a part of price hikes. So how am I living in a parallel universe? Sanctions has unintended consequences, and US is quietly lifting some sanctions.








US Quietly Urges Russia Fertilizer Deals to Unlock Grain Trade


The US government is quietly encouraging agricultural and shipping companies to buy and carry more Russian fertilizer, according to people familiar with the efforts, as sanctions fears have led to a sharp drop in supplies, fueling spiraling global food costs.




www.bloomberg.com












Europe's Plan to Quit Russian Fuel Plunges Pakistan Into Darkness - BNN Bloomberg


Power outages across Southeast Asia are linked to policies enacted thousands of miles away




www.bnnbloomberg.ca

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## F-22Raptor

kingQamaR said:


> The United States has been there for 20 years.
> 
> That’s longer than the Civil War, World War II and the Korean War combined.
> 
> If it can’t be finished in 20 years, it was probably not a good idea in the first place.
> 
> However you are welcome to go over and do your part, no one is stopping you.
> 
> forever wars, such as Afghanistan and Iraq, are the kind of thing that destroy a country‘s treasury and doom empires.
> 
> Afghanistan was a bad idea 20 years ago, and it’s a bad idea now.
> 
> Occupying countries is never a great idea. Hopefully someday America will learn this.




The US chose to leave on its own accord, and having already achieved its main objective of destroying Al Qaeda.

The Taliban won, because the Afghan people refuse to fight for their country. Its that simple. The US won't hold their hands forever.


----------



## DF41

zartosht said:


> US empire crumbling before our eyes.
> 
> Western regime/media selected "president of venezuela" (or the "international community" as they call themselves)
> 
> attacked and thrown out of a restaurant by furious venezuelans. This guy colloborated with the CIA to impose crippling economic warfare on the venezuelan people and coup his way into power with american muscle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zelensky faces a similar future, once the ukrainian people see he sacrificed their entire country to enrich his family, and advance western geopolitical aims.




What really grotesque was that NED spun that in the MSM that he was swarmed by crowd of adoring fans as if
he a top of pop singer tearing his shirt for souveniers.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536377452829761537

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## wahhab0202

jhungary said:


> Well, tell me what Afghanistan can be used for then, and if so, as I said at the end, if we were to use it as a springboard to attack someone, would it be better off if we just annex the thing, I mean we have taken complete control of the country. There aren't really anyone or anything to stop us from stationing troop in Afghanistan permanently and start calling Afghan "American"
> 
> As for natural resource, again, we have 20 years in that place literally controlling anything and everything. So tell me why of the 5 big mine in Afghan, 4 belong to China and 1 belong to India??
> 
> And finally, it's not about Afghan going to Harvard or Oxford. It's about letting Afghan be what they want to be.


Off course it is not about Afghanistan going to Harvard or Oxford, thanks for agreeing with me. But for letting Afghan to be what they want to be, are sure abut that? I mean, US burn like 2 trillions of dollar in the process. Is it for letting Afghan to chose what they want to be??

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## jhungary

wahhab0202 said:


> Off course it is not about Afghanistan going to Harvard or Oxford, thanks for agreeing with me. But for letting Afghan to be what they want to be, are sure abut that? I mean, US burn like 2 trillions of dollar in the process. Is it for letting Afghan to chose what they want to be??


Again, otherwise we would have force Afghan government hand and turn over everything...And again, we have 20 years to do that, if we want to suck everything out, 20 years is more than enough. I mean look at Russia, taking part of Ukraine for over 100 days, already stolen millions tons of grain, think about what 20 years can do, if we want to do it?

Did we do that? no.


----------



## mike2000 is back

DF41 said:


> It is Murica NATO and Murica running doggies that think Russia is harmless teddy bear.


Of course I know its not a cute harmless Teddy bear. I was just saying some members on here seem to have taken Russian propaganda even more than Russian themselves.lol and they act like Russia is some an innocent virgin boy that can do and has never done any harm to anyone..lol 
In fact I agree that they are far from being an innocent victim, most times they have been the aggressors and an expansionist power historicallyto this day. So I don't understand why some members act like they are innocent. In fact I'm not even blaming Russia for being that way, since its up to them to protect their interests and take more from other countries if they have the capabilities (nothing wrong in that geopolitically speaking, but morally yes its another thing altogether). I'm just making a point that some people on here seem to misjudge the country as an innocent victim mostly due to their anti western views. Lol 

In fact if not for Russia's expansionist tendencies. MONGOLIA will still be part of China today and the mongols in Mongolia won't be so anti China the way they are today( it was mostly due to soviet propaganda, to keep them under soviet influence away from China), same with outer manchuria which will still be part of China, In effect China almost lost Xinjiang to Russia again due to moscow's expansionist policies, luckily for China the KMT still had some power/militray capabilities to stop it in the nick of time, if not even Xinjiang will not be Chinese today but Russian.🤣 









Soviet invasion of Xinjiang


The Soviet invasion of Xinjiang was a military campaign in the Chinese northwestern region of Xinjiang in 1934. White Russian forces assisted the Soviet Red Army. In 1934, Ma Zhongying's Chinese Muslim troops, supported by the Kuomintang government of the Republic of China were on the verge of...




military-history.fandom.com





As they say its good to know history , so as not to be ignorant., but seems some people don't understand this simple thing.

Funny thing here is that, China has lost more teriritory to Russias expansionist policies more than they have lost to any country else in the world. So Russia has actually caused more long lasting damage to the country than even Japan that's the irony of it all. Lol i guess thats the reason both sides have always been wary of each other to this day and have still not forged an official allinace despite all the talks and even despite the heavy pressure from the U.S on both. 
Yes Russia is a cute innocent Teddy bear. 🐻 🤣

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## mike2000 is back

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536290527460700161
> 
> 
> The so called bear hasn't even achieved air superiority against Ukraine after 4 months of war,lost its flagship to a country that doesn't have a navy,couldn't achieve minor objectives on the ground yet some believe they could challenge NATO. NATO would totally erase those drunkards,the level of destruction Russians have witnessed in Ukraine is nothing compared to what NATO could do to them.


Well, I agree that Russias performance in Ukraine has been rather appalling and poor. Which I don't think is all that surprising. Afterall Russia is not the Soviet Union , they have long fallen from their soviet heyday, so obviously they don't don't those capabilities they had before. 
However, even so they still have numerical and industrial superiority over Ukriane. So they will still emerge victorious at the end despite far heavier losses and destruction if western powers keep taking a soft approach instead of arming Ukriane with the required weapons they need to defend themselves. In fact western response has been rather useless and dismal. We have barely orividex Ukraine with any weapons lethal needed to protect themselves . Just look at our military and financial support to the Mujahideen resistance in Afghanistan which ran into the tens of billions of dollars (some claims over a 100billion dollars was spent ) and massive sophisticated arm's and equipments given to Afghan resistance through Pakistan and western military advisors/trainers provided. Compared it to Ukraine is like comparing an ocean with a little stream. Lol 
We have left Ukraine to its own device , that's the simple fact. 
Even so Russia is still struggling, I can only imagine how they will fare if we supported Ukraine like Afghanistan. Russia is indeed not the Russia of the 70s . That's one thing this conflict proved.


----------



## ZeGerman

jhungary said:


> Again, otherwise we would have force Afghan government hand and turn over everything...And again, we have 20 years to do that, if we want to suck everything out, 20 years is more than enough. I mean look at Russia, taking part of Ukraine for over 100 days, already stolen millions tons of grain, think about what 20 years can do, if we want to do it?
> 
> Did we do that? no.


“The invasion's aims were to dismantle al-Qaeda, which had executed the September 11 attacks, and to deny it a safe base of operations in Afghanistan by removing the Taliban government from power.”

The initial invasion did succeed in these though the taliban was able to return and contest power in certain areas. However the taliban also stepped away from supporting international terrorists. 

The main fuckup was that there was no exit plan. That an extra goal was introduced in “nation building” afghanistan into a pro-western democratic government. 

But i do not know why so many pakistanis are jumping up and down about a so called “humililiating military defeat” while the coalition never lost a military engagement…and simply lost patience hand holding ANA. 

Eventually the afghans have to “help themselves” and stand on their own feet. 
Turns out they did not want to put up a fight and instead tolerate taliban regime rule. So be it. Clash of cultures and something to keep in mind when dealing with the middle east.


----------



## jhungary

ZeGerman said:


> “The invasion's aims were to dismantle al-Qaeda, which had executed the September 11 attacks, and to deny it a safe base of operations in Afghanistan by removing the Taliban government from power.”
> 
> The initial invasion did succeed in these though the taliban was able to return and contest power in certain areas. However the taliban also stepped away from supporting international terrorists.
> 
> The main fuckup was that there was no exit plan. That an extra goal was introduced in “nation building” afghanistan into a pro-western democratic government.
> 
> But i do not know why so many pakistanis are jumping up and down about a so called “humililiating military defeat” while the coalition never lost a military engagement…and simply lost patience hand holding ANA.
> 
> Eventually the afghans have to “help themselves” and stand on their own feet.
> Turns out they did not want to put up a fight and instead tolerate taliban regime rule. So be it. Clash of cultures and something to keep in mind when dealing with the middle east.


Well, as I said

You have to be stupid to underestimate US Military capability..........on the other hand, I cannot say the same thing to our ability to make good policy. 

Not a single country other than US have had and have the ability to start an expeditionary war in the last 100 years. All wars since 1920 were fought locally. Even with WW2, the allied only been able to attack North Africa (thus starting an expeditionary war) after US come into the picture, before that, it's all localised affair. 

And expeditionary warfare is just one part of the US military war making capability........


----------



## Apollon

925boy said:


> Proof please? Let me confirm your facts before i engage with you.



Russia pulled out of entire north Ukraine

To the pakistani here who laugh and mock...Europe defending Ukraine crushs Pakistan energy infrastructure.










Pakistan's 12-Hour Blackouts Linked To A Massive Shift In Europe


Europe's campaign to quit Russian fuel is designed to punish Moscow for its invasion of Ukraine. It's also wreaking havoc thousands of miles away from the conflict, plunging Pakistan into darkness.




www.ndtv.com


----------



## jamahir

F-22Raptor said:


> The US chose to leave on its own accord, and having already achieved its main objective of destroying Al Qaeda.
> 
> The Taliban won, because the Afghan people refuse to fight for their country. Its that simple. The US won't hold their hands forever.



Yes, USA left Afghanistan on its own accord after half-heartedly fighting the Taliban for all those years. USA government didn't have any problem at all with the Taliban government of 1996-2001 even though Taliban was committing atrocities yet USA / NATO didn't initiate regime change there. However USA government / NATO manufactured atrocities in Libya and Syria in 2011 to initiate regime change because NATO didn't like Libya and Syria to continue to be Socialist-Communist societies, especially Muslim-majority ones.

The BJP government in India, led by the dictator Modi, which is ruling India since 2014 is a fascist one whose ideological elements have committed many atrocities like lynchings of Muslims and Dalit Hindus, and the BJP ruling in the center and some states have committed atrocities and human rights violations and continue the Indian 3000-year-old most extreme Capitalist socio-economic system in human history originating with the settling down of the Hindutvadis in India. Some of the recent atrocities :








Victims of Hindutvadi terrorism and anti-humanity : An elderly man and a professor


These are two very recent incidents in India but this can be a mega thread but if you make contributions about new incidents please be rational, not religious extremist yourself and speak on a general pan-human level, something that can be understood by every human anywhere on Earth. Incident...



defence.pk




Yet why doesn't NATO speak for regime change in India ?

All these years in Afghanistan the USA military was collaborating with the Taliban in growing opium which would be sold by CIA in USA and other markets. Then the USA military was taking Taliban fighters to the battlefields of Syria aboard US air force planes to fight their common enemy - the leftists / progressives and the rational people of the Syrian government and security forces and the rational citizens of Syria who want Bashar al Assad to stay. NATO wouldn't ever have left Afghanistan if leftists movements like the Solidarity Party of Afghanistan were somehow getting themselves into power. Since the Taliban took over the country they have been committing atrocity upon atrocity yet NATO doesn't speak for regime change there yet NATO is calling for regime change in Russia because Russia acted towards deNazification and demilitarization in Ukraine and to prevent NATO from installing nuclear weapons there. The good people are deemed evil and the evil ones are deemed good. The world has gone crazy especially since 2003 when Bush and B'liar *somehow* attached the name of Al Qaeda to Saddam's Socialist system.


----------



## K_Bin_W

Apollon said:


> Russia pulled out of entire north Ukraine
> 
> To the pakistani here who laugh and mock...Europe defending Ukraine crushs Pakistan energy infrastructure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan's 12-Hour Blackouts Linked To A Massive Shift In Europe
> 
> 
> Europe's campaign to quit Russian fuel is designed to punish Moscow for its invasion of Ukraine. It's also wreaking havoc thousands of miles away from the conflict, plunging Pakistan into darkness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ndtv.com


Pak problems have nothing to do with war in Ukr, Its all about our leadership and corruption.

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## Ali_Baba

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536417450274996224
> The liberation of Severodonetsk continues
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536367917591580672
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536386327582744583
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536355534290489344



@The SC 
Do you agree with Russia that what Russia is doing is "liberation??????"


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

wahhab0202 said:


> NATO ask Zelensky to negotiate since long time yes. But never they ask him to cede some territories before. So why now? To me you seems to be a professional military professional and I know you don't believe that Russia is loosing 1000 of soldiers each day in this conflict. In fact anybody with little common sense won't buy it.
> 
> 
> Okay, then ask NATO to stop pushing Zelensky for negotiation and ceding territories. At least until Ukraine is landlocked without any chance to regain all the lost territories in the future.



Apparently, the West is pushing Ukraine now to "negotiate" with Russia. A question can be raised on why are they rushing now to get Zelensky to "negotiate". Perhaps they see Ukraine militarily losing. Or it could be that higher oil and gas prices at home, the lack of fertilizers and other commodities that Russians used to export, or the skyrocketing inflation are forcing the hands of the Western govts to push the Zelensky and his regime to "negotiate" with the Russians. The question is, will the Russians accept this sudden desire of "negotiations" from the West.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536310378912784385

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## AZMwi

Raffie said:


> When Palestinians (who can't pronounce their name because there is no "P" in Arabic, and the etymology is the Hebrew word Paleshet which means "Invader") launch 4500 rockets against Israeli towns, for sure, IDF should bend over and let the invaders do a Shoah v.2.0...
> In 1918, the census in Jewish Palestine showed only 15,000 Arabs over a population of 100k, half of these Arabs weren't even born there...
> View attachment 852992


Its pronounced falastine in arabic. Palestine is the name given by westerners. just like misr (egypt), shaam (syria) etc.

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## Primus

Apollon said:


> Russia pulled out of entire north Ukraine
> 
> To the pakistani here who laugh and mock...Europe defending Ukraine crushs Pakistan energy infrastructure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan's 12-Hour Blackouts Linked To A Massive Shift In Europe
> 
> 
> Europe's campaign to quit Russian fuel is designed to punish Moscow for its invasion of Ukraine. It's also wreaking havoc thousands of miles away from the conflict, plunging Pakistan into darkness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ndtv.com


Indian media lol

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536629325121847296

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## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraine doesn’t have anywhere close to the firepower the US can bring.
> 
> Don’t know what your talking about. Ukraine has no navy and a very small Air Force. The US has 10,000+ cruise missile arsenal and several hundred thousand bombs. Not to mention the Army and Marine Corps.



P**** talk...your military or demented president don't have the guts to fight Russia.



F-22Raptor said:


> Why send in US soldiers when the Ukrainians are obliterating the Russians for US? By the end of this war, the Russians will be an exhausted force.
> 
> The US has only given 30% of its Javelins, 25% of its Stingers, 100 towed howitzers, and less than 1,000 drones. US military support is only around $5B to date.
> 
> This is a very small portion of US firepower.



Yep, such a brave powerful military...getting someone else to be your cannon fodder  you're all mouth.

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## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> The US could have stayed in Afghanistan ad infinitum, but there was no need to. The US had already achieved its main objective of destroying Al Qaeda. Would we have liked to see the Taliban out of power? Sure, but that was up for Afghans to decide. If their not going to fight for their country, why would the US?



You didn't destroy Al Qaeda, in fact you created more monsters of the likes of ISIS. US invasion of Iraq was counterproductive to US interests. Iraq was effectively handed over to full control of the Iranians. You lost in Iraq and Afghanistan, you can spin it as much as you like, much like how you "won" in Vietnam 



F-22Raptor said:


> Why would I not want to see the Russian Nazis destroyed?



By supporting Ukrainian Nazis? It's "good terrorist" vs "bad terrorist" all over again...you rednecks don't seem to learn do you?

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536617372995420160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536584592454451200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536640712032374784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536613384967397376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536575042401738752

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## mike2000 is back

K_Bin_W said:


> Just like the rest I am sure Russia will destroy them too.


So you want Ukraine not to ask for military supplies, arms and help from its partners? 
So when India and Pakistan went to war and Pakistan was seeking more western and Chinese help against India, it was also wrong for Pakistan to do so right?
Sometimes I wonder what kind of logic some of you here use..😅. 

Countries will always ally with those they have common interests with and seek help when needed from those. In fact even big powers do this....much less smaller powers. Even Russia allied with the U.S/U.K/West to be able to fend off the massive German invasion/encroachment and they tried to make Japan neutral and sealed a deal with Japan to avoid being pincered and decimated from both sides.. you think Russia could have wistood both sides without Western help/alliance? Lol 
The world doesn't work that way .


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536619211220467713


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## ZeGerman

Corax said:


> P**** talk...your military or demented president don't have the guts to fight Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, such a brave powerful military...getting someone else to be your cannon fodder  you're all mouth.


Russia has nukes. 
This shields it. cause that 60 mile traffic jam near kiev would have been obliterated just like the highway of death in Iraq.

Nato has more military equipment, soldiers, population, tech, spending by a margin.
Its troops are also performing a lot better in wars, even far away from its border.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536688585159725060

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536669461293457408

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## K_Bin_W

mike2000 is back said:


> So you want Ukraine not to ask for military supplies, arms and help from its partners?
> So when India and Pakistan went to war and Pakistan was seeking more westernand Chinese help against India, it was also wrong for Pakistan to do so right?
> Sometimes I wonder what kind of logic some of you here use..😅.
> Countries will.always ally with those they have common interests with and seek help when needed from those. In fact even big powers do this..much less smaller powers. Even Russia allied with U.S/U.K/West to be able to fend off the German invasion and they tried to sealed a deal with Japan to avoid being pincered and decimated from both sides.. you think Russia could have wistodd both aides without Western help/alliance? Lol
> The world doesn't work that way .


LOL, I never said Ukr should not ask for help, It can ask for all the help it wants but the F35s and Abrams and you name it will never see the light of the day in Ukr for obvious reasons.

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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536687739445313542

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## vi-va

Viet said:


> You think I made joke?
> Most of soldiers Putin sends to war come from poor, underprivileged families. Many come from the eastern part of Russia, from religious ethnic minorities. That is what was found out under the dead soldiers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putins Armee der Armen und schlecht vernetzten? Wen der Kreml-Chef für sich in den Krieg ziehen lässt
> 
> 
> Aus den ärmsten Regionen im Osten Russlands kommen viele Soldaten im Ukraine-Krieg und gehören oft religiösen Minderheiten an: Putins Planung kommt das zugute.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.merkur.de


True. Few from Moscow.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536669461293457408


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536669539253067777

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536681643183853570


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## Vergennes

ZeGerman said:


> Russia has nukes.
> This shields it. cause that 60 mile traffic jam near kiev would have been obliterated just like the highway of death in Iraq.
> 
> Nato has more military equipment, soldiers, population, tech, spending by a margin.
> Its troops are also performing a lot better in wars, even far away from its border.



People here aren't just aware of the level of destruction NATO can bring to the Russian army. NATO would have already pulverised the Russian army and their supply routes. NATO would have enjoyed air superiority within the first hours/days of the operation. Russian army still hasn't achieved it after 4 fucking months. That 40 miles convoy would indeed have been pulverised.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536710205785907200
So called world's second most powerful army. Just a bunch of looters and drunkards.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Vergennes said:


> People here aren't just aware of the level of destruction NATO can bring to the Russian army. NATO would have already pulverised the Russian army and their supply routes. NATO would have enjoyed air superiority within the first hours/days of the operation. Russian army still hasn't achieved it after 4 fucking months. That 40 miles convoy would indeed have been pulverised.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536710205785907200
> So called world's second most powerful army. Just a bunch of looters and drunkards.



If NATO attacks Russia then China declares war on NATO and it be WW3.

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## Vergennes

Tai Hai Chen said:


> If NATO attacks Russia then China declares war on NATO and it be WW3.



LMAO China will do jack shit to save Russia. Instead they're going to take advantage of it and conquer Russian land and ressources.


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## Viet

mike2000 is back said:


> So you want Ukraine not to ask for military supplies, arms and help from its partners?
> So when India and Pakistan went to war and Pakistan was seeking more westernand Chinese help against India, it was also wrong for Pakistan to do so right?
> Sometimes I wonder what kind of logic some of you here use..😅.
> Countries will.always ally with those they have common interests with and seek help when needed from those. In fact even big powers do this..much less smaller powers. Even Russia allied with U.S/U.K/West to be able to fend off the German invasion and they tried to sealed a deal with Japan to avoid being pincered and decimated from both sides.. you think Russia could have wistodd both aides without Western help/alliance? Lol
> The world doesn't work that way .


There are several groups of Putin supporters.

The most prominent group lives in lala lands as Nicaragua and Venezuela.

The second group lives in China and in lesser extent India. They issue empty supports in exchange for discount on oil and gas.

The notorious propagandists seen here are paid by the Kremlin.

And there is hater group. They hate everything the West, no matter right or wrong.

The most lovely group is of Lavrov’s. They dream of a new world democratic order. They are fanatic. They want to achieve it by nuclear holocaust.

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## vi-va

mike2000 is back said:


> Of course I know its not a cute harmless Teddy bear. I was just saying some members on here seem to have taken Russian propaganda even more than Russian themselves.lol and they act like Russia is some an innocent virgin boy that can do and has never done any harm to anyone..lol
> In fact I agree that they are far from being an innocent victim, most times they have been the aggressors and an expansionist power historicallyto this day. So I don't understand why some members act like they are innocent. In fact I'm not even blaming Russia for being that way, since its up to them to protect their interests and take more from other countries if they have the capabilities (nothing wrong in that geopolitically speaking, but morally yes its another thing altogether). I'm just making a point that some people on here seem to misjudge the country as an innocent victim mostly due to their anti western views. Lol
> 
> In fact if not for Russia's expansionist tendencies. MONGOLIA will still be part of China today and the mongols in Mongolia won't be so anti China the way they are today( it was mostly due to soviet propaganda, to keep them under soviet influence away from China), same with outer manchuria which will still be part of China, In effect China almost lost Xinjiang to Russia again due to moscow's expansionist policies, luckily for China the KMT still had some power/militray capabilities to stop it in the nick of time, if not even Xinjiang will not be Chinese today but Russian.🤣
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soviet invasion of Xinjiang
> 
> 
> The Soviet invasion of Xinjiang was a military campaign in the Chinese northwestern region of Xinjiang in 1934. White Russian forces assisted the Soviet Red Army. In 1934, Ma Zhongying's Chinese Muslim troops, supported by the Kuomintang government of the Republic of China were on the verge of...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> military-history.fandom.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As they say its good to know history , so as not to be ignorant., but seems some people don't understand this simple thing.
> 
> Funny thing here is that, China has lost more teriritory to Russias expansionist policies more than they have lost to any country else in the world. So Russia has actually caused more long lasting damage to the country than even Japan that's the irony of it all. Lol i guess thats the reason both sides have always been wary of each other to this day and have still not forged an official allinace despite all the talks and even despite the heavy pressure from the U.S on both.
> Yes Russia is a cute innocent Teddy bear. 🐻 🤣


Every country do what is necessary when time is right. Morality is irrelevant.

You are right, no alliance. China had made it very clear.

We know our history well, at least I do. China did NOT support either of them in the war.

Russia military performance disappointed me. It declined more than it appears to be. Although I have observed Russia decline, such as productivity, infrastructure, old equipment and outdated military doctrine. But I never thought Russia will fight a war like ww2, or even ww1. There is nothing to learn from this war.

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## CodeforFood

Tai Hai Chen said:


> If NATO attacks Russia then China declares war on NATO and it be WW3.


That 40 mile convoy would not be there if it was a conflict with NATO. It is more a distraction then anything else. Russia's focus is more towards EAST right from the get go. You can't just change or add more variables while keeping other things as static. @Vergennes 
Although that being said, NATO will nonetheless prevail if it can keep it to conventional armament.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536687739445313542


CodeforFood said:


> That 40 mile convoy would not be there if it was a conflict with NATO. It is more a distraction then anything else. Russia's focus is more towards EAST right from the get go.



NATO don't dare attack Russia which is China's vassal state. America can't afford war with China in Taiwan strait despite China only has 2 carrier strike groups operational for now. In 10 years time China has more than 6 carrier strike groups operational.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Vergennes said:


> LMAO China will do jack shit to save Russia. Instead they're going to take advantage of it and conquer Russian land and ressources.



China has 10 times the population of Russia. A few days ago the masters of the Old World are connected by road across Amur river. Russia is China's vassal state. No need for China to conquer Russia.


----------



## ZeGerman

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536687739445313542
> 
> 
> NATO don't dare attack Russia which is China's vassal state. America can't afford war with China in Taiwan strait despite China only has 2 carrier strike groups operational for now. In 10 years time China has more than 6 carrier strike groups operational.


Why would america war in taiwan straight? 
Current status taiwan is de-facto an independent state. 

It is China that desperately wants to conquer Taiwan. 
But unlike you, its leaders are not idiots. They know China is far from ready for a war over Taiwan.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> Why would america war in taiwan straight?
> Current status taiwan is de-facto an independent state.
> 
> It is China that desperately wants to conquer Taiwan.
> But unlike you, its leaders are not idiots. They know China is far from ready for a war over Taiwan.



True, but if America attacks Russia then China attacks Taiwan. Russia is China's vassal state.



ZeGerman said:


> They know China is far from ready for a war over Taiwan.



True, when China has 10 carrier strike groups China blockade Taiwan by air and sea forces. By then America will be decayed by liberalism which weakens America's gene pool over time, and by then America will be demographically like Brazil and Mexico, majority non White.


----------



## ZeGerman

On that subject. I hope taiwan learns from ukraine. 

Expensive wespons are nice and all, but a heavily motivated and armed population filled with relatively cheap but effective weapons like javelins, manpads, anti-ship rockets, drones will do a lot against china’s amphibious invasion plans.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> On that subject. I hope taiwan learns from ukraine.
> 
> Expensive wespons are nice and all, but a heavily motivated and armed population filled with relatively cheap but effective weapons like javelins, manpads, anti-ship rockets, drones will do a lot against china’s amphibious invasion plans.



Different geography. Ukraine is fairly large. Even Donbas is much bigger than Taiwan. Ukraine is sparsely populated with lots of agricultural land. Taiwan is densely populated with little agricultural land. Ukraine has land route. Taiwan is isolated by ocean. Unlike Ukraine, Taiwan is vulnerable to air and sea blockade due to food insecurity.



ZeGerman said:


> On that subject. I hope taiwan learns from ukraine.
> 
> Expensive wespons are nice and all, but a heavily motivated and armed population filled with relatively cheap but effective weapons like javelins, manpads, anti-ship rockets, drones will do a lot against china’s amphibious invasion plans.



J-20 probably poses a bigger threat to Taiwan compared to China's landing ships. Blockade cripples Taiwan's economy and causes massive famine and triggers rebellion in the population, causing regime change.


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## Wood



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## Corax

Vergennes said:


> People here aren't just aware of the level of destruction NATO can bring to the Russian army. NATO would have already pulverised the Russian army and their supply routes. NATO would have enjoyed air superiority within the first hours/days of the operation. Russian army still hasn't achieved it after 4 fucking months. That 40 miles convoy would indeed have been pulverised.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536710205785907200
> So called world's second most powerful army. Just a bunch of looters and drunkards.



All I here is pussy talk from NATO and US poodles like you. You keep mouthing about NATO this and that, all the while more than happy for the Ukies to do all the fighting and be slaughtered by the Russians. Talk is cheap, and it doesn't come much cheaper than the likes of you. At least the Russians have the balls to make true on their threats, unlike the rednecks and french poodles. Stope talking and make true on your threats...but wait...you don't have the balls.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Corax said:


> All I here is pussy talk from NATO and US poodles like you. You keep mouthing about NATO this and that, all the while more than happy for the Ukies to do all the fighting and be slaughtered by the Russians. Talk is cheap, and it doesn't come much cheaper than the likes of you. At least the Russians have the balls to make true on their threats, unlike the rednecks and french poodles. Stope talking and make true on your threats...but wait...you don't have the balls.



Dude. Get real man. NATO can't even beat Taliban rascals let alone Russia.

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## ZeGerman

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Different geography. Ukraine is fairly large. Even Donbas is much bigger than Taiwan. Ukraine is sparsely populated with lots of agricultural land. Taiwan is densely populated with little agricultural land. Ukraine has land route. Taiwan is isolated by ocean. Unlike Ukraine, Taiwan is vulnerable to air and sea blockade due to food insecurity.
> 
> J-20 probably poses a bigger threat to Taiwan compared to China's landing ships. Blockade cripples Taiwan's economy and causes massive famine and triggers rebellion in the population, causing regime change.


Yeah taiwan needs some sort of agricultural push. Like the brits did after they faced risk of being starved out by the german u boats. 








Food security – a history - Global Food Security


The history of modern agriculture begins after the Second World War. Industrialised countries switched back to a peacetime economy and developing countries gained independence from their colonial rulers and took more control over their agricultural practices.




www.foodsecurity.ac.uk





Other then that, masses of anti-ship missiles.


I have doubts starving the population will win China many popularity points though. For a theoretical uprising. 
Often it can also rally people behind the leader/nation. (Leningrad, terrorbombing germany).

China is also not viewed very well in Taiwan. 








In Taiwan, Views of Mainland China Mostly Negative


There is widespread support in Taiwan for increased economic and political ties with the U.S. While many are wary of stronger political ties with mainland China, about half would favor stronger economic relations.




www.pewresearch.org





Also what if USA would push some civilian food-cargo ships towards Taiwan…is china gonna sink those??
China starving people and blowing up food aid….is a huge loss of face and will bring a coalition against it. Giving those just cause to forcefully end the blockade.


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## Ali_Baba

Ukraine strikes back: Kyiv blasts military base 40 miles inside Russian border​








'Ukrainian missile' hits military base 40 miles inside Russia


Video captured what appeared to be the trail from a missile and smoke rising into the sky over the Russian town of Klintsy today, after what seems to be a Ukrainian strike on a Russian military base.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## ZeGerman

Corax said:


> All I here is pussy talk from NATO and US poodles like you. You keep mouthing about NATO this and that, all the while more than happy for the Ukies to do all the fighting and be slaughtered by the Russians. Talk is cheap, and it doesn't come much cheaper than the likes of you. At least the Russians have the balls to make true on their threats, unlike the rednecks and french poodles. Stope talking and make true on your threats...but wait...you don't have the balls.


Again. Nato is a defensive alliance. 
Nato is giving ukraine:
spy/satellite info, military and economic support. 

Similar to how america supported England in WW2. This was enough for Germany to declare war. 
Russia is however being careful not to step a millimeter over ukraine border. Why is that? 



Its very simple, a large escalation is not what either power-block wants. Especially not with nucleair weapons in the mix. 

However even a toddler can do the math on conventional forces mismatch…..so stop talking out of your *** and start counting…


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## Corax

ZeGerman said:


> Again. Nato is a defensive alliance.
> Nato is giving ukraine:
> spy/satellite info, military and economic support.
> 
> Similar to how america supported England in WW2. This was enough for Germany to declare war.
> Russia is however being careful not to step a millimeter over ukraine border. Why is that?
> 
> 
> 
> Its very simple, a large escalation is not what either power-block wants. Especially not with nucleair weapons in the mix.
> 
> However even a toddler can do the math on conventional forces mismatch…..so stop talking out of your *** and start counting…



The reason why Russia hasn't stepped over the Ukraine border is because it was never its main goal, its focus is Ukraine. Stop your NATO fanboy pussy talk. When Assad used chemical weapons in Syria, Obama didn't make true on his 'red line' promise and respond. NATO is a US-led vassal organisation, do whatever your US masters say and STFU. For all your pussy talk of 'protecting democracy', you can't even protect Ukraine in Europe's backyard, merely use Ukie Nazis as cannon fodder.

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## gambit

ZeGerman said:


> But i do not know why so many pakistanis are jumping up and down about a so called “humililiating military defeat” while the coalition never lost a military engagement…and simply lost patience hand holding ANA.


It is not that these 'sofa soldiers', of all countries, do not understand that there are two components of any war, the political and the military. But these 'sofa soldiers' are not here to discuss in a rational and adult like manner. They hate US and they just want to kvetch. They will latch on to any policy error, any equipment failure, anything that can be taken in a negative light, no matter how inapplicable that thing might be, to portray US as 'loser' to the Taliban. It is rather childish, really.


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## ZeGerman

Corax said:


> The reason why Russia hasn't stepped over the Ukraine border is because it was never its main goal, its focus is Ukraine. Stop your NATO fanboy pussy talk. When Assad used chemical weapons in Syria, Obama didn't make true on his 'red line' promise and respond. NATO is a US-led vassal organisation, do whatever your US masters say and STFU. For all your pussy talk of 'protecting democracy', you can't even protect Ukraine in Europe's backyard, merely use Ukie Nazis as cannon fodder.


Oh so russia is happy it lost all of eastern europe over the years?? 
And drop its “ukraine” focus for a “donbass” focus? Cause 80% ukraine will remain, and violently anti-russian at that. 


There is simply a limit what one does for nations outside of their alliance/direct interests.


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## Corax

gambit said:


> It is not that these 'sofa soldiers', of all countries, do not understand that there are two components of any war, the political and the military. But these 'sofa soldiers' are not here to discuss in a rational and adult like manner. They hate US and they just want to kvetch. They will latch on to any policy error, any equipment failure, anything that can be taken in a negative light, no matter how inapplicable that thing might be, to portray US as 'loser' to the Taliban. It is rather childish, really.



How is it any different to the nonsense your spout on here? You're as much of a keyboard warrior here as anyone else. You can claim to be a five star general, doesn't mean jack shit when you state anything on a forum like this.

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## zectech

China and other Putin supporters, behold your god Russia "to defeat the US":

Russia TV Hosts Fear Jan. 6 Hearing Will Hurt Trump's Re-Election Chances​








Russia TV Hosts Fear Jan. 6 Hearing Will Hurt Trump's Re-Election Chances


The hearings are being followed closely by pro-Putin journalists, who have bashed the Jan. 6 committee as "a step towards dictatorship."




www.newsweek.com





This info is not anything new, Putinites in Russia support Trump:









'RT America': The One News Outlet For Which Trump Retains An Unexpected Affinity


During the election, Donald Trump gave interviews to 'RT' — an English language network owned by the Russian government. NPR looks at the Trump Camp relationship with the Russian propaganda channel.




www.npr.org





Europe and China were leading the world in a new multipolar world. Here is the Trump plan to end that:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514493458270109698
Russia is not defending China by the war in Ukraine. This war to destroy the EU is Trump's mission. Putin is a puppet of Trump, making the Chinese puppets of Trump. I do not know how to make myself more clear.

*Trump and Vladimir Putin 'want to DESTROY the EU' – former Italian leader WARNS *









Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin 'want to DESTROY the EU'


DONALD Trump and Vladimir Putin “want to destroy the EU” and the populist government in Italy is trying to help them, according to former Italian prime minister Mario Monti.




www.express.co.uk





*‘Very dangerous’: Putin, Trump want to weaken the European Union, top official says*









'Very dangerous': Putin, Trump want to weaken the European Union, top official says


There is at least one thing in common between the U.S. and Russia – their willingness to weaken the European Union, a top EU official said.




www.cnbc.com





Trump/Putin want to destroy the competition in Europe to cia monopoly.

*Trump Brags He Threatened to Not Defend NATO Allies From Russia*









Trump Brags He Threatened to Not Defend NATO Allies From Russia


The former president said that NATO members were not paying enough to defend themselves.




www.newsweek.com





*Trump was planning to withdraw US from Nato and ditch South Korea alliance, according to new book*









Trump was planning to withdraw US from Nato and ditch South Korea alliance, according to new book


‘Yeah, the second term. We’ll do it in the second term,’ then-president reportedly said




www.independent.co.uk





*Trump: EU is one of United States’ biggest foes *









Trump: EU is one of United States’ biggest foes


Remarks come a day ahead of meeting with Russian president.




www.politico.eu





*Trump just threatened to dismantle the European-American alliance as we know it*









Trump just threatened to dismantle the European-American alliance as we know it


It’s "geopolitical suicide," according to one expert.




www.vox.com





Trump second stay in the white house was - US to destroy China. And Trump buddy Putin going to destroy the EU.

Putin wants to cause hyperinflation, crash the dollar, destroy the Euro, defeat the EU, and usher in an anti-China age of cia bitcoins, as the global currency. No digital yuan.

*Rothschild Investment Corp More Than Tripled Its Bitcoin Position*



https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/rothschild-investment-corp-more-than-tripled-its-bitcoin-position-2021-07-20



The US can ban crypto, yet wants bitcoin to be the anti-dollar play. The currency of the globe after the dollar collapses.

As I stated before the war. Trump is deepstate.









The Real Deep State Is Trump


How the president has used William Barr and other officials to turn the government into his personal fiefdom




newrepublic.com





Trump is linked to the Russian Mob, Russian oligarchs and Chabad. Same allies of Trump in Russia are the backers of Putin in Russia. The cia picked Putin to lead Russia to fool you and Russian public. Putin is a tool of the cia.

Boris Yeltsin had entourage of ‘hundreds’ of CIA agents who instructed him how to run Russia, claims former parliamentary speaker​


https://www.rt.com/russia/526345-yeltsin-cia-connection-claim/



Each major decision made by Yeltsin was done by hundreds of cia agents. Yeltsin hand picked Putin, as one of those major decisions. Chinese have no concept of controlled opposition in their culture. The cia is about controlled opposition. To control "governments" around the globe and make it seem that the cia does not control "governments" around the globe. Putin is the Washington backed leader to handle the Islamic world and China.

“The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ourselves.” — Vladimir Ilyich Lenin​*"By way of deception thou shalt do war" - Mossad*

What is Russia's role. The US-Anglo alliance want the EU destroyed, want China destroyed. And want the old entente of Len Pen in France, "British Royals" in the UK, "Trump Dynasty" in the US and Russia allied with this Le Pen/Trump alliance. France-UK-US-Russian alliance vs EU/China.

If Putin fails to destroy the economy of the EU, if Putin fails to send the globe into a hyperinflationary death spiral (leading to making most nations desperate to Washington to solve their problems), China wins. China wins with continued trade and peace and stability. Putin and Washington are heading the globe off a cliff to a preplanned mission that Trump and Putin want, first destroy the EU, then China, and hyperinflation is one of the main goals. China has to stay strong and the EU has to stay strong economically to weather this Putin storm.


----------



## Soldier35

British mercenary and sniper Sean Pinner, sentenced to death, told why you should not go to fight in Ukraine. Interview in English.






Details have appeared about the Russian armored train "Yenisei" created by soldiers of the railway troops of the "Brave" group. The armored train can restore railway tracks, carry out mine clearance, conduct technical reconnaissance and escort military cargo and echelons.






The work of military topographers in Ukraine was shown by the Russian Ministry of Defense. Without these people, the operation of the Iskander missile systems is not possible, since they need accurate coordinates for delivering strikes. The calculation of military topographers moves on a KAMAZ 4350 vehicle with a geodetic complex PNGK-1 installed on it. The car is equipped with an inertial navigation system, as well as a rangefinder-goniometer device that performs the functions of geodetic reference of objects.






The air defense crew of the Russian Osa air defense system 9K33M3 spoke about his combat work in Ukraine. The interview is quite interesting, as their combat service in Ukraine is described simply and in detail. The 9A33BM3 combat vehicle, very old, developed in the eighties, despite this, the air defense system consistently hits the UAVs of the Ukrainian army at a distance of up to 10 km and an altitude of 5000 meters. The Osa air defense system in Iraq was a priority target for US special forces, as it confidently hit Tomahawk cruise missiles.


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## Type59

gambit said:


> It is not that these 'sofa soldiers', of all countries, do not understand that there are two components of any war, the political and the military. But these 'sofa soldiers' are not here to discuss in a rational and adult like manner. They hate US and they just want to kvetch. They will latch on to any policy error, any equipment failure, anything that can be taken in a negative light, no matter how inapplicable that thing might be, to portray US as 'loser' to the Taliban. It is rather childish, really.



USA despite battles all over the world, forgot about its own citizens.

Alot of Americans and Europeans mocking Russians for being poor, but forget about thr many homeless people camped out in SF. The prosperity of the 50s are gone forever. US should use its hi tech military to clean up its own crime ridden streets. Soon you guys will look like South and Central America. The irony of being biggest weapons supplier of the cartels.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536750514222022657

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536750525013979137

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536750531854893056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536750538834190336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536750541141065728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536750549982674944


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## Madni Bappa

Viet said:


> Those young Russians could be alive instead of dying in a worthless war. What would you say to their mothers? Hey your sons died while trying to hunt Nazi?


Those Americans could be alive instead of dying in pointless endless wars.

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## jhungary

vi-va said:


> Russia military performance disappointed me. It declined more than it appears to be. Although I have observed Russia decline, such as productivity, infrastructure, old equipment and outdated military doctrine. But I never thought Russia will fight a war like ww2, or even ww1. There is nothing to learn from this war.


It's not decline, decline mean they have had made progress. In this case, if they are still using WW2 or WW1 style tactics, that mean The Russian Military did not made any progress since 1940

The problem as most military analyst see is the recent "Military reform' championed by Shoigu. Before this war, probably around 2010 (Can't remember when Shoigu were appointed Defence Minister, and don't bother to look up), Shoigu started making changes to Russian military deployment order, moving on from the tradition Regimental deployment that was used since cold war. 

The change was supposedly reflect battlefield changes and give Russia a more "Organic" deployment, however, no other changes was adjusted to that effect, everything from staff management to logistic (Oh logistic) remain the same, using the same concept since cold war. 

Smaller organic unit needs mobility and instant support to make it work, otherwise when you are getting pin with a smaller unit (as it happened in Battle of Kyiv) you are going to get bogged down. There are 2 major issues as we can see from the current war. 1.) not enough use of the Air Force 2.) The phaseline concept of Logistic simply cannot cope.

In smaller unit engagement, air support are primary, since you need to out manoeuvre your enemy, by putting troop and supporting element in place before your enemy did, the only way you can do so is by air, which would require a complete dependent of the Air Force. However, the old Soviet concept have set that Air Force is a supplementary element with its role relegated to supporting the ground movement. With that, Air Force don't fly SEAD, and take out Air Defence and the only role of the Russian Air Force is for Close Air Support. And without that air dominance, you don't get to deploy troop from A to B quicker than the Ukrainian did, especially Ukrainian have the home turf. That is why the Russian unit did make some initial gain but all but evaporated at the later stage of the first phase. 

Just to make a major comparsion, according to US Air Force (which monitor Air Sortie in Ukraine) Russian launched some 300 air sorties during the first month in war. At the first Iraq war, US and Coalition launched over 100,000 in the entire air phase (also lasted roughly a month) of Gulf war, preceding he land incursion. You can't achieve air superiority with 300 sorties no matter how incompetent your enemy air defence is.........

Another issue Russian facing is the logistic can't cope with the current reform, as the concept of logistic has not undergo reform. in the old way, logistic is done by rail and logistic hub were litter around the rail line. That is due to the fact that since cold war, Russian Army move in bulk, deployed with regiments and you supply the troop in a regimental scale. However, this is not going to work when you break down the unit into battalion side and try to support each Battalion by land. Compare the US Concept of logistic, the log train goes from regional command (in Afghanistan for example, there are 4 regional command, RC North, South, East and West) and from those Regional Command, dedicated logistic line were use to feed troop forward deployed using medium lift helicopter and dedicated convoy network, say if I want to supply my troop in Kandahar region, first I fly my supplied to KAF then filter them out to each camp, and from then either fly them our of truck them into each FOB. 

In Ukraine, this is not done, everything done thru central axis, so where your troop goes, your logistic goes, that's mean both log train and troop uses the same MSR to get into position, the heavy use of roadway plus being able to ambush would mean both troop and logistic would be stuck somewhere along the road simply because everyone is using the same road to get to where they want to go.....That's why you have that 60km convoy, it may look impressive but in realistic term, that is nothing but a giant target. 

Which mean when they try their "BTG" concept, this is bound to fail, and when it does, Russia get no choice but to revert it back to how they used to fight, a giant fist depending on their artillery superiority that try to crush everything in its way, if you look at the current battle of donbas, you don't see Battalion Tactical group working individually fully taking advantage of their organic structure, but instead, you are seeing a giant blob of Russian force, that account for the slow progress in Donbas. In fact, it is lucky for the Russian, because if Ukraine have more artillery than they had or have a more competent air force, they can disrupt the Russian force by thinning out the herd.

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## Viet

Madni Bappa said:


> Those Americans could be alive instead of dying in pointless endless wars.


Yes many US servicemen would still alive. Most wars are worthless. sometimes people realize late why a war starts at all.
About weapons unbalance between Ukraine and Russia, it says 1:15. However it’s not certain at all Putin will win. The US lost the Vietnam war, despite 1:150 in US favor.

Ukraine will win this war, I have no doubt. I am willing to bet my car on this.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Yes many US servicemen would still alive. Most wars are worthless. sometimes people realize late why a war starts at all.
> About weapons unbalance between Ukraine and Russia, it says 1:15. However it’s not certain at all Putin will win. The US lost the Vietnam war, despite 1:150 in US favor.
> Ukraine will win this war, I have no doubt. I am willing to bet my car on this.



In Vietnam the US was not able to secure the China border. Military hardware and Chinese troops poured into Vietnam from the China border.

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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> In Vietnam the US was not able to secure the China border. Military hardware and Chinese troops poured into Vietnam from the China border.


Same same, western weapons flow into Ukraine almost unhindered thru Poland and Romania.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536763935663194112

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536792604775424007

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536791850648051713

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536785109881331713

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536781851733393408


Viet said:


> Same same, western weapons flow into Ukraine almost unhindered thru Poland and Romania.



Much less compared to the amount pouring into Vietnam from China during Vietnam war.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536792604775424007
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536791850648051713



I think HIMARS cannot survive very long in Donbas because Su-57 hunting it down.

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> I think HIMARS cannot survive very long in Donbas because Su-57 hunting it down.


Those 3 operational Su-57 are not leaving Russia. If anything is hunting long range missile systems inside Ukraine, its going to be drones.
But then again, you belive Russia is able to monitor the entire Ukraine 24-7 eventhough they hardly have any optical surveillance satelites. FYI Russia is practically blind in orbit. Russia has no idea where those HIMARS are located, unless someone on the ground is telling them.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Those 3 operational Su-57 are not leaving Russia. If anything is hunting long range missile systems inside Ukraine, its going to be drones.
> But then again, you belive Russia is able to monitor the entire Ukraine 24-7 eventhough they hardly have any optical surveillance satelites. FYI Russia is practically blind in orbit. Russia has no idea where those HIMARS are located, unless someone on the ground is telling them.



China provides Russia with intel from China's recon satellites. Ukrainian HIMARS aren't given long range missiles, only 34 km range basic rockets. It's pretty much the same as Uragan in terms of range. And we saw what happened to Ukraine's Uragans.

Not to mention Russia's attack choppers like Havoc and Alligator which fly low can prowl around and hunt down Ukrainian HIMARS after detecting and tracking them with radar.

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## Paul2

_Nabil_ said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536358292708110339



It's so obvious. The only way somebody agrees to close oil when it passes $120, is when he doesn't get any money from that. That Khaftrar is likely to be even less autonomous than was thought before.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536832558595448832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536833795390951425

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Well, tell me what Afghanistan can be used for then, and if so, as I said at the end, if we were to use it as a springboard to attack someone, would it be better off if we just annex the thing, I mean we have taken complete control of the country. There aren't really anyone or anything to stop us from stationing troop in Afghanistan permanently and start calling Afghan "American"
> 
> As for natural resource, again, we have 20 years in that place literally controlling anything and everything. So tell me why of the 5 big mine in Afghan, 4 belong to China and 1 belong to India??
> 
> And finally, it's not about Afghan going to Harvard or Oxford. It's about letting Afghan be what they want to be.



Do you know Taliban's troops numbers? ANA outnumbered them ∞ to 1. I would say even Kabul government staff outnumbered them alone. It's just nobody picked up the gun.

A famous cartoon where a mullah asks: "Who likes Taliban?" and then "Who wants to live under Taliban?"

ANA were in their majority very poor rural Afghans, and minorities. Rich, and educated Kabuli kids went to live abroad, especially ones whose parents got friends with Americans.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536834324460347394


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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Are you for real? On day 1 of this conflict, NATO cable Zelenskyy to cede Donbas to Russia in order to avoid a full blown war because NATO didn't see anyway Ukrainian can fight this off, then when Mariupol is surrounded NATO talking about letting Russia have Mariupol and the Land Corridor. Now, 110 days has pass, we are still talking about this war.
> 
> In fact, Biden allegedly said that even before the war begin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Absolutely False' Biden Pressured Ukraine to Cede Land to Russia to Avoid War: Psaki
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Problem is not whether I believe 1000 soldier has been killed, what I see is Russia have a high turn over issue, otherwise they will not raise the age to serve now to 50 and will not try to raise Battalion out of nothing. Unless you can tell me why these measure is in place that's logical, that point to the Russia have force generation problem. Which usually mean they are upping the tempo or have had a lot of casualty they need to replace. If this is the first one, we would see an expanding of battlefield and more equipment roll into the war, and we don't see either of them.
> 
> I don't know how many soldier Russian killed in this war, I can take an educated guess from Open Source resource to have a ball park figure, but I wouldn't say the war is going smoothly toward the Russian, judging from the stuff that they do and reading it between the line.



Lets return to the ballpark estimates. Russia has 7 million military age men, with now middle aged men being added to that in desperation.

Russian military + police + national guard + kgb is already 2m.

2m have rich parents, and they will evade draft, leave Russia for overseas. These people are irrelevant to the real economy. Few people with university education good enough to score a white collar job will go work as truck drivers, factory workers, or dockers.

So, you are left with 3m people on whom Russian economy hangs on by a thread. Many of them are university students under 24-25, so again deferrals, and a concern for hurting the labour force.

That's why I gave 2m people as a maximum mobilisation reserve Russia can provide without catastrophic economic consequences.

Out of 2m people in uniform, 5% already been "spent," and they absolutely cannot reduce the police numbers, on the opposite, they are increasing the police staff as quickly as the military.

A combat force of 300k-400k is the maximum what we can expect with Russia unless they are really suicidal. Realistically, there will be under 300k troops who ever stepped into Ukraine I believe.

A massive force nevertheless.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536839662957895680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536843248764854272


Paul2 said:


> Lets return to the ballpark estimates. Russia has 7 million military age men, with now middle aged men being added to that in desperation.
> 
> Russian military + police + national guard + kgb is already 2m.
> 
> 2m have rich parents, and they will evade draft, leave Russia for overseas. These people are irrelevant to the real economy. Few people with university education good enough to score a white collar job will go work as truck drivers, factory workers, or dockers.
> 
> So, you are left with 3m people on whom Russian economy hangs on by a thread. Many of them are university students under 24-25, so again deferrals, and a concern for hurting the labour force.
> 
> That's why I gave 2m people as a maximum mobilisation reserve Russia can provide without catastrophic economic consequences.
> 
> Out of 2m people in uniform, 5% already been "spent," and they absolutely cannot reduce the police numbers, on the opposite, they are increasing the police staff as quickly as the military.
> 
> A combat force of 300k-400k is the maximum what we can expect with Russia unless they are really suicidal. Realistically, there will be under 300k troops who ever stepped into Ukraine I believe.
> 
> A massive force nevertheless.



Russia has million of unemployed men lying around drinking vodka with nothing better to do. Send them to Donbas to take land and snatch women.

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## The SC

Ali_Baba said:


> @The SC
> Do you agree with Russia that what Russia is doing is "liberation??????"


Well there are many appellations.. but I agree in the sense that its defending Russian speaking Ukrainians in Eastern Ukraine that have been massacred by the rest of Ukrainians since 2014.. that is a well documented fact.. Russia was patient and did not invent it..

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536835815480905729

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536836801293336584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536837140675534849

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536837685763092488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536838922189283328

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## ckf

Viet said:


> Yes many US servicemen would still alive. Most wars are worthless. sometimes people realize late why a war starts at all.
> About weapons unbalance between Ukraine and Russia, it says 1:15. However it’s not certain at all Putin will win. The US lost the Vietnam war, despite 1:150 in US favor.
> 
> Ukraine will win this war, I have no doubt. I am willing to bet my car on this.


You own a car? How are u going to prove that and who's going to bet you. Anyways stop the childish nonsense posts.

Here's a article from dailybeat.com, which Chelsea clinton runs, and practically Democrat's mouthpiece. It wasn't a coincidence when Biden publicly complained that Zelensky did not listen to US intelligence. Kissenger publicly endorsed ceasefire and now NATO chief publicly suggesting the need to pay the price for peace. Zelensky eventually will be like the poor Afghans cling on to the globemasters. War fatigue is setting in. When people of Ukraine find out that billions are stolen from public funds tinted with Ukrainian blood stashed in offshore accounts for Zelensky and his cronies, judgement day will come . 









Judgment Day Is Coming for Zelensky


The most grueling decision of the war in Ukraine could spell the end of the president’s political career.



www.thedailybeast.com

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## _Nabil_

Paul2 said:


> It's so obvious. The only way somebody agrees to close oil when it passes $120, is when he doesn't get any money from that. That Khaftrar is likely to be even less autonomous than was thought before.


Haftar never been autonomous, he's been bitching to Egypt, UAE, Russia, Qatar, USA,.....

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## MultaniGuy

Haha fvcking rednecks.

Let the Europeans go back to killing themselves again like in World War 1 and World War 2.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Lets return to the ballpark estimates. Russia has 7 million military age men, with now middle aged men being added to that in desperation.
> 
> Russian military + police + national guard + kgb is already 2m.
> 
> 2m have rich parents, and they will evade draft, leave Russia for overseas. These people are irrelevant to the real economy. Few people with university education good enough to score a white collar job will go work as truck drivers, factory workers, or dockers.
> 
> So, you are left with 3m people on whom Russian economy hangs on by a thread. Many of them are university students under 24-25, so again deferrals, and a concern for hurting the labour force.
> 
> That's why I gave 2m people as a maximum mobilisation reserve Russia can provide without catastrophic economic consequences.
> 
> Out of 2m people in uniform, 5% already been "spent," and they absolutely cannot reduce the police numbers, on the opposite, they are increasing the police staff as quickly as the military.
> 
> A combat force of 300k-400k is the maximum what we can expect with Russia unless they are really suicidal. Realistically, there will be under 300k troops who ever stepped into Ukraine I believe.
> 
> A massive force nevertheless.


I don't do it like this.

I look at their command and logistic element, because I know how much food and ammunition you need to support how many people and how many commander to command troop on a given sector. 

Talking about how many people you can put in uniform does not really matter, because you will have to put them under effective control and have way to resupply them to make them an organised force, otherwise you may as well just release the prisoner from Russian Prison system and give them weapon and have them do another Nazino in Ukraine...

And from my assessment of the command and control element, couple with logistic, I can see Russia at max can support 120,000-150,000 combat troop, if we put tooth to tail on 50/50 (Highly doubt they can) you are talking about 240000-300,000 in Ukraine, but I would say it is not at all impossible to have over 400,000 Russian troop in Ukraine at the moment.

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## F-22Raptor

Reports that Ukrainian faces continue to make significant advances toward Kherson. 

Kherson is of much higher strategic value than the Donbass.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> Reports that Ukrainian faces continue to make significant advances toward Kherson.
> 
> Kherson is of much higher strategic value than the Donbass.



Kherson is just about the most heavily defended city in Ukraine (or former Ukraine for that matter). And if Ukrainian army shells Kherson then that turns the population of Kherson against Ukraine and Ukraine can say bye bye to Kherson forever.

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## Elvin




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## khansaheeb

Ukraine war: 'Almost every family has lost someone close to them'


Traumatised families from Mariupol reveal dire living conditions under Russian occupation.



www.bbc.com





Ukraine war: 'Almost every family has lost someone close to them'​*By Nick Beake*
Europe correspondent, Kyiv

Published4 hours ago
Share





Image caption,
Yuliya Zolotariova managed to flee Mariupol two weeks ago with the help of her daughter Anastasiya.
*The true extent of the horror in the Russian-occupied city of Mariupol is hard to uncover.*
The details that have already seeped out are difficult to process.
"Dead bodies everywhere. People were lying near every house. No one took them away," Yuliya Zolotariova, 51, tells us as her eyes water.
Now in the relative safety of the capital, Kyiv, she gives a harrowing account of life in her home city where it's a feared a major cholera outbreak could be imminent.
Yuliya escaped just two weeks ago.
"Everything is lost for everyone. Hopelessness. Fear. Pain."

Tears now begin to stream down her face.
"Almost every family has lost someone close to them."
It's easy to see why both Ukrainian officials and international humanitarian agencies believe conditions are perfect for the rapid spread of disease in Mariupol.
"No one has taken out the rubbish since the beginning of the war."
Yuliya explains that clean drinking water was impossible to find for many of the estimated 100,000 people still living in her city.
"We drained and drank water from the boiler. From heating systems. Later, our men went to a destroyed swimming pool and took chlorinated water from there. It's all we had."

The reality of life - or rather existence - under Russian occupation is at jarring odds with the propaganda on prominent display in Mariupol.
Blasted into submission, it's now forced to celebrate its Russian takeover.
The most symbolic moment of subjugation came this past weekend when the occupiers painted over the Soviet-era concrete welcome sign at the entrance to the city.
The freshly daubed colours of the Russian flag masking the blue and yellow of Ukraine.
While Moscow tries to airbrush history, it offers a future of misery to the residents it falsely claims to have liberated.
"Russia is here forever" declares a newly installed giant billboard.

That Yuliya Zolotariova was able to escape this hellhole is down to her daughter Anastasiya who, from afar, provided her with information about a possible escape route.




Image caption,
Yuliya with daughter Anastasiya reunited in Kyiv
The 26-year-old moved to the capital a year ago to build a career working at Ukraine's national railway.
Since the war, she'd been trying to rebuild her family.
But that will be impossible.
Because not only did the Russians destroy her family home, they killed her grandmother Valentyna.
"In fact, they have destroyed three generations," Anastasiya tells us with anger and sadness. "All this, because they think we Ukrainians shouldn't exist."
We ask how many people she knows have been killed since the invasion in February.
"Twenty people I knew personally," she replies.
But the death of her beloved grandma is the hardest to bear.




Image caption,
Anastasiya's grandparents in Mariupol in 1970
Valentyna Polishuk, 80, died on 21 March. Nearly three months on, her body hasn't been recovered.
And it probably never will be.
Valentyna's daughter Yuliya - Anastasiya's mum - recalls the terrifying moment the Russians hit the family's apartment block in the middle of the night.
"I thought there was an earthquake because everything was trembling. The floors, the walls. Everything fell. I thought we were all just going to die."
She says the missile totally destroyed the top three floors and then fire spread through the rest of the building.
"It was insanely scary. We went down to the basement but it was burning badly and there was very strong smoke."
She says it soon became impossible to breathe.
"I said to my mother: 'Mum, let's go to breathe for five minutes. Let's get out of the cellar. She refused because she was very tired. She was 80 years old and it was too hard for her."
Yuliya left her phones and the family's ID documents with her mother and told her she'd go to find help.
"As I came up, the basement collapsed. There was no way to save them. It was hell."
Eleven residents of the block, including children, perished in the basement.




Image caption,
Mariupol's survivors trying to cope with the death and destruction through group therapy.
Now, in another basement in another city, Mariupol's survivors are trying to cope with the death and destruction visited upon them.
In the centre of Kyiv we find men and women standing in a circle passing a ball to one another and exchanging hugs.
This is group therapy for a community that is not only displaced, but traumatised.
Today's session is for those who've revealed they're especially worried about how to make ends meet.
Yesterday's session focussed on bereavement as nearly all of the 20 participants had lost loved ones in the past three months, reveals psychologist Anna Chasovnykova.
"First people come with panic attacks. They remember what was there, and those were explosions and murders. They see all the evil that the Russian Federation has brought to Ukraine."
She must be one of the busiest women in Kyiv, such is the demand for mental health support.
"Almost every Ukrainian faces some psychological consequences. Someone saw the war, someone was in battle, someone lost a family."
The centre where Anna works was only set up a fortnight ago.
In that time, they've supported more than 5,000 people, all of them recently arrived from Mariupol.
In another room, we see Mykola Polishuk, 79, registering his details and recording the life he lived in his beloved Mariupol: his address, his job, his family.




Image caption,
Mykola Polishuk with daughter Yuliya and granddaughter Anastasiya
But there will be a line missing in the record.
He is the husband of Valentyna.
His wife of 52 years.
"I'm sorry, I can't talk because the tears are coming."
Mykola puts his head in his hands and covers his face.
In front of him there's a photo of his wedding day - in Mariupol - in 1970.
It's one of the very few things his family still possess.
His face is drained of all remaining colour, as he contemplates the new existence Russian President Vladimir Putin's invasion has created for him.
"What they have done сan never be forgiven."

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536870316278009857

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536871600372518912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536874165399166976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536868710320857088

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## Elvin




----------



## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 13​Jun 13, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF
*
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, June 13
Kateryna Stepanenko, Mason Clark, George Barros, and Grace Mappes
June 13, 7:30pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Kremlin-sponsored outlet Izvestia published and quickly removed an appeal by the First Deputy Head of the Russian Presidential Administration Sergey Kirelenko for Russia to rebuild the Donbas on June 12 and blamed hackers for what they (likely falsely) claimed was a “fake publication.” *Izvestia likely intended to save the article for a later date to set informational conditions for Russian annexation of Donbas. Kirelenko’s appeal stated that Russia will restore the Donbas regardless of high costs or if doing so lowers the standard of living in Russia.[1] Izvestia blamed unknown hackers for publishing a “fake article,” but it is possible that hackers instead released an article Izvestia had prepared to publish at a later date. The Kremlin previously published and removed an article prematurely celebrating a Russian victory over Ukraine in late February and discussing the capture of Ukraine in past tense in anticipation of Ukraine’s capitulation during the first Russian-Ukrainian negotiations in Belarus.[2] Unnamed Kremlin officials previously identified Kirelenko as the future head of a new Russian federal district, which would encompass Donbas, and occupied settlements in Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts.[3]
*Russia continues to deploy insufficiently prepared volunteer and reserve forces to reinforce its ongoing operations. *Kremlin-sponsored outlet Izvestia released footage showing Russian artillery reservists undergoing training with old D-20 howitzers reportedly within 10 days of their deployment to Ukraine.[4] The reservists focused on learning how to operate hand-held weapons, despite being reportedly only days away from deploying. Social media footage also showed Russian forces transporting Russian volunteer and reserve units with T-80BV tanks (a variant produced in 1985, as opposed to the modernized T-80 BVM operated by the 1st Guards Tank Army) and BMP-1 armored personnel carriers (which have largely been phased out in favor of the BMP-2) to Belgorod Oblast on June 9.[5] Additional social media footage showed Russian forces transporting T-80BV tanks removed from storage in Moscow Oblast on June 9.[6]
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces pushed Ukrainian defenders from the center of Severodonetsk and reportedly destroyed the remaining bridge from Severodonetsk to Lysychansk on June 13, but Ukrainian officials reported that Ukrainian forces are not encircled in the city.*
*Russian forces carried out unsuccessful ground assaults in an attempt to sever Ukrainian ground lines of communications (GLOCs) near Popasna and Bakhmut.*
*Russian forces launched unsuccessful offensive operations southeast of Izyum and north of Slovyansk, and are likely setting conditions for an assault on Siversk and northwestern Ukrainian GLOCs to Lysychansk.*
*Russian forces are likely conducting a limited offensive directly northeast of Kharkiv City in a likely attempt to push Ukrainian forces out of artillery range of Russian rear areas and secured some successes.*
*Russian and Ukrainian forces are engaging in ongoing fighting for Davydiv Brid in northwestern Kherson Oblast.*
*Russian occupation authorities likely staged terrorist activity in Melitopol and Berdyansk for Russia Day on June 12.*

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 14​Jun 14, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF
*
Karolina Hird, Mason Clark, George Barros, and Grace Mappes
June 14, 5:00 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
The Belarusian Armed Forces began a command-staff exercise focused on testing command and control capabilities on June 14. However, Belarus remains unlikely to join the war in Ukraine on behalf of Russia.* Head of Logistics for the Belarusian Armed Forces Major General Andrei Burdyko announced that the exercise will involve military authorities, unspecified military units, and logistics organizations and is intended to improve the coherency of command-and-control and logistics support to increase the overall level of training and practical skills of personnel in a “dynamically changing environment.”[1] Despite the launch of this exercise, Belarus remains unlikely to join the war in Ukraine due to the threat of domestic unrest that President Alexander Lukashenko faces if he involves already-limited Belarusian military assets in combat.[2] Any Belarusian entrance into the war would also likely provoke further crippling sanctions on Belarus. Any unsupported Belarusian attack against northern Ukraine would likely be highly ineffective, and the quality of Belarusian troops remains low. ISW will continue to monitor Belarusian movements but does not forecast a Belarusian entrance into the war at this time.
*Russian authorities may be accelerating plans to annex occupied areas of Ukraine and are arranging political and administrative contingencies for control of annexed territories.* Russian military correspondent Sasha Kots posted an image of a map that was displayed at the St. Petersburg Economic Forum depicting a proposed scheme for the “administrative-territorial” division of Ukraine following the war on a three-to-five-year transition scale.[3] The proposed scheme divides Ukrainian oblasts into Russian “territorial districts" and suggests the manner in which Russian authorities hope to incorporate Ukrainian territory directly into Russia. Advisor to the Mayor of Mariupol Petro Andryushchenko additionally outlined a series of indicators that he claimed suggest that Russian authorities are planning to annex occupied Donetsk Oblast as soon as September 1, 2022.[4] Andryushchenko stated that the leadership of occupied Donetsk has entirely passed from authorities of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) to Russian officials and that Russian educational authorities are already referring to Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhia, and Kherson as regions of Russia. Andryushchenko additionally stated that the financial and legal systems in occupied Donetsk have already transitioned to Russian systems. Despite the apparent lack of a Kremlin-backed mandate concerning the condition of occupied areas, Russian authorities are likely pushing to expedite a comprehensive annexation process in order to consolidate control over Ukrainian territories and integrate them into Russia’s political and economic environment. However, the Kremlin retains several options in occupied Ukrainian territory and is not bound to any single annexation plan.
*The Russian military leadership continues to expand its pool of eligible recruits by manipulating service requirements. *Russian milblogger Yuri Kotyenok suggested that Russian authorities are preparing to increase the age limit for military service from 40 to 49 and to drop the existing requirement for past military service to serve in tank and motorized infantry units.[5] If true, the shift demonstrates the Kremlin's increasing desperation for recruits to fill frontline units, regardless of their poor skills. Kotyenok echoed calls made by other milbloggers to reduce the health requirements for those serving in rear and support roles.[6] Kotyenok additionally noted that while Russian recruits must have clean criminal records to serve, private military companies such as the Wagner Group will allow those with “mild misdemeanors” into service and that many of these low-level offenders have been mobilized into combat with Wagner in Donetsk and Luhansk. The Russian military leadership will likely continue efforts to expand the pool of eligible recruits, even at the cost of high-quality military personnel.
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian military authorities are pursuing options to increase the available pool of eligible recruits to account for continued personnel losses in Ukraine.*
*Russian forces are continuing to fight for control of the Azot industrial plant and have destroyed all bridges between Severodonetsk and Lysychansk, likely to isolate the remaining Ukrainian defenders within the city from critical lines of communication.*
*Russian forces continue to prepare for offensive operations southeast of Izyum and west of Lyman toward Slovyansk.*
*Russian forces are continuing offensive operations to the east of Bakhmut near the T1302 highway to cut Ukrainian lines of communication to Severodonetsk-Lysychansk.*
*Russian forces continued offensive operations to push Ukrainian troops away from frontlines northeast of Kharkiv City.*
*Ukrainian counterattacks have forced Russian troops on the Southern Axis to take up and strengthen defensive positions.*



*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts)
Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City
Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued ground assaults within Severodonetsk and fought for control of the Azot industrial plant on June 14.[7] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces moved two battalion tactical groups (BTGs) to the north of Severodonetsk around Kremmina and Rubizhne (in Luhansk Oblast), but as ISW has previously assessed, these BTGs are unlikely to be functioning at full combat capacity.[8] A Russian Telegram channel additionally claimed that Russian forces have encircled Ukrainian troops within the Azot industrial plant, rendering evacuation or withdrawal from the plant impossible, though ISW cannot independently confirm this claim.[9] Russian forces have reportedly destroyed all three bridges spanning the Siverskyi Donets River from Severodonetsk to Lysychansk, indicating that Russian forces likely seek to isolate Ukrainian defenders in Severodonetsk from their critical lines of communication to complete the encirclement of the city, at the cost of preventing Russian forces from easily crossing the river themselves once they capture Severodonetsk.[10] Russian forces conducted continual artillery strikes against Severodonetsk-Lysychansk and the surrounding settlements of Privillya and Borivske.[11]



Russian forces continued to prepare for offensive operations toward Slovyansk from the southeast of Izyum and west of Lyman on June 14.[12] The Ukrainian General Staff noted that Russian forces are focusing on consolidating control of Bohorodychne, a settlement near the Kharkiv-Donetsk Oblast border about 20 km northwest of Slovyansk.[13] Russian forces are conducting artillery and ground attacks in other settlements to the northwest of Slovyansk, and will likely use incremental gains in this area to gain road access to the M03 highway and drive southeast on Slovyansk.[14] The Ukrainian General Staff stated that Russian forces are additionally preparing for an offensive southwest of Lyman toward Raihorodok, indicating that Russian forces intend to push toward Slovyansk along the T0514 highway that runs from Lyman through Raihorodok and Slovyansk.[15]
Russian forces continued ground, air, and artillery strikes to the east of Bakhmut on June 14.[16] Russian forces conducted attacks around Zolote, east of Bakhmut, and attacks to drive northward toward Bakhmut from Vidrodzhennya and Vershyna.[17] A Russian Telegram channel claimed that detachments of the Wagner Private Military Company took control of Vidrodzhennya and Roty, both to the southeast of Bakhmut.[18] Russian forces continued attempts to cut the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway and are likely in position to interdict Ukrainian movements along sections of the highway via shelling as they continue assaults on Vrubivka and Berestove.[19]



*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces continued offensive operations to push Ukrainian forces away from occupied frontlines northeast of Kharkiv City on June 14.[20] Russian forces are conducting ground assaults south of Rubizhne (in Kharkiv, not Luhansk Oblast) toward Staryi Saltiv and Verkhnii Saltiv in order to re-establish control of these points.[21] A Russian Telegram channel additionally claimed that Russian forces repelled a Ukrainian counterattack in Starytsya and Izbytske, both settlements far north of Kharkiv City near the international border.[22] Russian forces continued to fire on and around Kharkiv City.[23] Russian forces will likely continue attempts to push Ukrainian troops south of contested frontiers in this area as Ukrainian forces continue simultaneous limited and localized counterattacks.



*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Recent Ukrainian counterattacks forced Russian troops to prioritize defensive operations along the Southern Axis on June 14.[24] Ukrainian forces have reportedly advanced to within 18 km of occupied parts of Kherson (though we cannot confirm their exact positions), which is likely placing considerable pressure on Russian forces to strengthen their defensive lines in the south.[25] Russian troops are reportedly mining unspecified locations on the bank of the Inhulets River in a likely response to Ukrainian counterattacks around Davydiv Brid in northwestern Kherson and toward Mykolaiv and Kryvyi Rih from occupied frontiers in Kherson.[26] Russian forces deployed one tube artillery battery and two rocket artillery batteries to areas near the Kherson-Mykolaiv Oblast border.[27] Russian forces continued to fire on Kherson, Dnipropetrovsk, and Zaporizhia Oblasts.[28]



*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian occupation authorities continued to struggle to provide basic social services in Mariupol on June 14.[29] Advisor to the Mayor of Mariupol Petro Andryushchenko claimed that the reconstruction of Mariupol is allegedly taking place under the patronage of the Russian city of St. Petersburg, but that occupation authorities have no clear legal framework under which to institute reconstruction projects.[30] Russian occupation authorities will likely continue the ad-hoc implementation of occupational agendas in the continued absence of a concrete Kremlin-backed occupation framework.

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## Gomig-21

Elvin said:


>



As intense as that was, this is the exact problem with this war that has really ushered in a new phenomenon never seen before, or at least it was done differently in previous wars. Now it seems it's almost all about getting that great YouTube or TikTok video, probably started by the Chechen TikTok Warriors. You can tell this guy's adrenalin was through the roof but if he wasn't filming, he wouldn't have been nearly that vocal telling the Russians F U and proof is in the pudding as you can clearly hear him at the end brag about having all of that on video!?!

In the old days, you had media photographers embedded with the troops that brought you footage about as real as it could get. This way and this new generation of soldiers seem like a bunch of self-absorbed pansies that makes you think no wonder there are so many casualties on both sides. Granted tactics and bad equipment and lack of leadership also contributed to those horrible, human statistic, but this new, self-absorbed need to film themselves in the middle of a major war clash is about as ridiculous as it gets. Just MO.

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## The SC

Sudden new blood of the Russian forces in Kharkiv, Ukraine, after their absence for a long time

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536827709778710530

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536817799892553731

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536812787992870912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536798065713111041

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536790332653838336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536788418075807745

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536800051544174592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536715510301315072

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536714746082230273

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536859627417108482

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536815687754203136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536805696611704833

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536646022528700417

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## BHAN85

DF41 said:


> What really grotesque was that NED spun that in the MSM that he was swarmed by crowd of adoring fans as if
> he a top of pop singer tearing his shirt for souveniers.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536377452829761537



The difference between Guaido and Zelensky is 30 bn of Western money.

Zelensky is even much more worst for his own people than Guaido, due to his not-surrender, he has provocated thousands of dead between Ukrainian people and uncountable material destruction.

But if you have 30 bn to deliver money between people, they will adore you.

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## DF41

Tai Hai Chen said:


> In Vietnam the US was not able to secure the China border. Military hardware and Chinese troops poured into Vietnam from the China border.


 Extract from https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/u-s-...a-to-invade-china.744511/page-2#post-13836923

=============================================================================


_*
USA WERE WARNED NOT TO GO NORTH OF THE PARALLEL


USA dared not cross the parallel.


China told them if USA cross the parallel, China will put Chinese boots on the ground below the parallel in numbers that pale what China did when Dugout Doug approached the Yalu River.












USA remembered what happened when they encountered Chinese even though most of the Chinese had only single shot bolt action rifle against USA battleships and artillery and Ma Deuces and unlimited ammo.

USA blinked and blinked and tail between legs and did not have the cojones to cross.

AND NOW USA KNOW CHINA GOT LOTS OF BANG AND LONGER REACH THEN USA CAN DREAM OF.*_


*AND ANY TIME USA WANT TO TURN PUSHING INTO REAL SHOVING, CHINA WILL BE MORE THAN READY AND WILLING TO TANGO *



Tai Hai Chen said:


> China provides Russia with intel from China's recon satellites. Ukrainian HIMARS aren't given long range missiles, only 34 km range basic rockets. It's pretty much the same as Uragan in terms of range. And we saw what happened to Ukraine's Uragans.
> 
> Not to mention Russia's attack choppers like Havoc and Alligator which fly low can prowl around and hunt down Ukrainian HIMARS after detecting and tracking them with radar.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536826322487590913


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536864552004071424

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536862191168675846

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536861300101365765

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536855182025314305

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536840470353125381

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536841115910946817

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536841841697497091

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536850148269121543

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536848548637048832

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Su-25 SM3 artillery smashing jets


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536934517444952064

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536847140613398528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536846691961274368

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536935179553587200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536936039012519936

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536841115910946817


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## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536850148269121543
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536848548637048832


Fake news

Bloomberg says Germany is ready to pump 10 billion euros into the company.
Gazprom remains under state management.





__





Germany prepares 5-10 bln euro rescue for Gazprom Germania - Bloomberg News


FRANKFURT — Germany is preparing a bailout package of between 5 to 10 billion euros ($5.22-$10.44 billion) for Gazprom Germania, an energy company abandoned by…




financialpost.com


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## ZeGerman

The SC said:


> Well there are many appellations.. but I agree in the sense that its defending Russian speaking Ukrainians in Eastern Ukraine that have been massacred by the rest of Ukrainians since 2014.. that is a well documented fact.. Russia was patient and did not invent it.


Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes truth? 

The un report list around 3000 civilian casualties, most on account of seperatist action.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536839293121052680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536836913566519298

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536775850217054208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536787849495855106


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## kingQamaR

This is not about me taking sides, this is me being pragmatic - Ukraine cannot defeat Russia. We will see peace talks at some point with the end game bring the Russian majority territory of Ukraine being ceded to Russia. Once again this is not about emotions, the only alternative is a leadership change within Russia or an escalation of the current war. Both are less likely than the territory hand over IMHO

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536936331879895040


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## Viet

To win the war Ukraine asks for speedy mass delivery of heavy weapons. That will be even a challenge for the US military industrial complex.

- 1,000 howitzers caliber 155mm

- 300 Multiple Missile Launchers

- 500 main battle tanks

- 2,000 armored verhicles

- 1,000 drones










Ukrainekrieg: Was hinter Kiews langer Waffenwunschliste steckt


1000 Haubitzen, 300 Raketenwerfer, 1000 Drohnen: Ein Berater von Präsident Selenskyj hat so viele schwere Waffen angefordert, dass selbst die US-Armee den Wunsch kaum erfüllen kann. Was steckt dahinter?




www.spiegel.de


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## ZeGerman

Viet said:


> To win the war Ukraine asks for mass delivery of weapons. That will be even a challenge for the US military industrial complex.
> 
> - 1,000 howitzers caliber 155mm
> 
> - 300 Multiple Rocket Launchers
> 
> - 500 main battle tanks
> 
> - 2,000 armored verhicles
> 
> - 1,000 drones
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainekrieg: Was hinter Kiews langer Waffenwunschliste steckt
> 
> 
> 1000 Haubitzen, 300 Raketenwerfer, 1000 Drohnen: Ein Berater von Präsident Selenskyj hat so viele schwere Waffen angefordert, dass selbst die US-Armee den Wunsch kaum erfüllen kann. Was steckt dahinter?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.spiegel.de


Are they even close to getting this? 

What is in the us package and what are the timelines of delivery? 

I am afraid the support is “too little too late” to stop russia in donbass. 

Ofcourse if this war rages on another year then its a different matter.


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## Viet

ZeGerman said:


> Are they even close to getting this?
> 
> What is in the us package and what are the timelines of delivery?
> 
> I am afraid the support is “too little too late” to stop russia in donbass.
> 
> Ofcourse if this war rages on another year then its a different matter.


Ukraine says the army is under extreme pressure, the delivery is too slow, it only gets 10 percent of weapons that were promised. But the time is on Ukraine side Russia can’t afford a war of attrition. Even the East front is captured Ukraine army will attack again. Either Putin can take Kiew or this war will last for years.


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## ZeGerman

kingQamaR said:


> This is not about me taking sides, this is me being pragmatic - Ukraine cannot defeat Russia. We will see peace talks at some point with the end game bring the Russian majority territory of Ukraine being ceded to Russia. Once again this is not about emotions, the only alternative is a leadership change within Russia or an escalation of the current war. Both are less likely than the territory hand over IMHO


Well..i think ukraine can defeat russia. 
But not in a relatively fast/clean conflict but only in a longer protracted war as western supplies finally then build up in enough numbers. 

Considering the huge cost (global economy down the drain, food shortages, ukranian military and civilian cost) and that it will still lead to an unstable result (russian majority areas are not over the moon to be part of ukraine and actually failing all their “goals” will be a humiliation for russia) i think they should try to agree to some compromise where parts of donbass territory are ceded. 

However perhaps after they see how the ukranian mobilisation army with western weapons pans out (late summer/autumn) Especially around cherson.

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> China provides Russia with intel from China's recon satellites. Ukrainian HIMARS aren't given long range missiles, only 34 km range basic rockets. It's pretty much the same as Uragan in terms of range. And we saw what happened to Ukraine's Uragans.
> 
> Not to mention Russia's attack choppers like Havoc and Alligator which fly low can prowl around and hunt down Ukrainian HIMARS after detecting and tracking them with radar.


Notice how those russian helicopters fire rockets in a 45 degree angel from the russian side of the front on most videos posted here? Russian helicopters are not going to ”prowl around and hunt” anything deep into ukrainian territory


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## ZeGerman

Russia should also realise the risk of overextending. 
Not only will this lead to insurgancy in areas where the population opposes them, but it will also remain a casus belli for ukraine. 



Even if ukraine will have to cede territory for a peace deal because they have to little artillery, and it takes too long to train troops on Nato weapons….
Inflow and training will however continue. We saw the differences in capability ukranians between 2014 and 2022. 
How will the balance be in 2025 if the ukranians are completely refitted with nato weapons and fully trained on them?


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## vi-va

jhungary said:


> It's not decline, decline mean they have had made progress. In this case, if they are still using WW2 or WW1 style tactics, that mean The Russian Military did not made any progress since 1940
> 
> The problem as most military analyst see is the recent "Military reform' championed by Shoigu. Before this war, probably around 2010 (Can't remember when Shoigu were appointed Defence Minister, and don't bother to look up), Shoigu started making changes to Russian military deployment order, moving on from the tradition Regimental deployment that was used since cold war.
> 
> The change was supposedly reflect battlefield changes and give Russia a more "Organic" deployment, however, no other changes was adjusted to that effect, everything from staff management to logistic (Oh logistic) remain the same, using the same concept since cold war.
> 
> Smaller organic unit needs mobility and instant support to make it work, otherwise when you are getting pin with a smaller unit (as it happened in Battle of Kyiv) you are going to get bogged down. There are 2 major issues as we can see from the current war. 1.) not enough use of the Air Force 2.) The phaseline concept of Logistic simply cannot cope.
> 
> In smaller unit engagement, air support are primary, since you need to out manoeuvre your enemy, by putting troop and supporting element in place before your enemy did, the only way you can do so is by air, which would require a complete dependent of the Air Force. However, the old Soviet concept have set that Air Force is a supplementary element with its role relegated to supporting the ground movement. With that, Air Force don't fly SEAD, and take out Air Defence and the only role of the Russian Air Force is for Close Air Support. And without that air dominance, you don't get to deploy troop from A to B quicker than the Ukrainian did, especially Ukrainian have the home turf. That is why the Russian unit did make some initial gain but all but evaporated at the later stage of the first phase.
> 
> Just to make a major comparsion, according to US Air Force (which monitor Air Sortie in Ukraine) Russian launched some 300 air sorties during the first month in war. At the first Iraq war, US and Coalition launched over 100,000 in the entire air phase (also lasted roughly a month) of Gulf war, preceding he land incursion. You can't achieve air superiority with 300 sorties no matter how incompetent your enemy air defence is.........
> 
> Another issue Russian facing is the logistic can't cope with the current reform, as the concept of logistic has not undergo reform. in the old way, logistic is done by rail and logistic hub were litter around the rail line. That is due to the fact that since cold war, Russian Army move in bulk, deployed with regiments and you supply the troop in a regimental scale. However, this is not going to work when you break down the unit into battalion side and try to support each Battalion by land. Compare the US Concept of logistic, the log train goes from regional command (in Afghanistan for example, there are 4 regional command, RC North, South, East and West) and from those Regional Command, dedicated logistic line were use to feed troop forward deployed using medium lift helicopter and dedicated convoy network, say if I want to supply my troop in Kandahar region, first I fly my supplied to KAF then filter them out to each camp, and from then either fly them our of truck them into each FOB.
> 
> In Ukraine, this is not done, everything done thru central axis, so where your troop goes, your logistic goes, that's mean both log train and troop uses the same MSR to get into position, the heavy use of roadway plus being able to ambush would mean both troop and logistic would be stuck somewhere along the road simply because everyone is using the same road to get to where they want to go.....That's why you have that 60km convoy, it may look impressive but in realistic term, that is nothing but a giant target.
> 
> Which mean when they try their "BTG" concept, this is bound to fail, and when it does, Russia get no choice but to revert it back to how they used to fight, a giant fist depending on their artillery superiority that try to crush everything in its way, if you look at the current battle of donbas, you don't see Battalion Tactical group working individually fully taking advantage of their organic structure, but instead, you are seeing a giant blob of Russian force, that account for the slow progress in Donbas. In fact, it is lucky for the Russian, because if Ukraine have more artillery than they had or have a more competent air force, they can disrupt the Russian force by thinning out the herd.


Shoigu call himself Zhukov. But he has no military background, nor any war experience. 

I will not trust a general who has no real military experience at all.

That's Putin's fault, appointed a man like Shoigu, humiliated Russia military.


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## Viet

vi-va said:


> Shoigu call himself Zhukov. Then I knew he is a crap.


Shoigu is a dumb stooge. He is not military man. He is appointed by Putin because he is a loyal stooge. Nothing more. His previous position was minister for civil catastrophe.

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## vi-va

Viet said:


> Shoigu is a dumb stooge. He is not military man. He is appointed by Putin because he is a loyal stooge. Nothing more. His previous position was minister for civil catastrophe.


War and military is an expertise, especially in 21st century. In WW2, Soviet outnumbered Nazi Germany, and Soviet can accept a loss of 26 millions. But it's not the case today.

Russia in on par with Ukraine on tactic, with stronger logistics and firepower, but that's all. 

This really disappointed me a lot.


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## vi-va

jhungary said:


> It's not decline, decline mean they have had made progress. In this case, if they are still using WW2 or WW1 style tactics, that mean The Russian Military did not made any progress since 1940
> 
> The problem as most military analyst see is the recent "Military reform' championed by Shoigu. Before this war, probably around 2010 (Can't remember when Shoigu were appointed Defence Minister, and don't bother to look up), Shoigu started making changes to Russian military deployment order, moving on from the tradition Regimental deployment that was used since cold war.
> 
> The change was supposedly reflect battlefield changes and give Russia a more "Organic" deployment, however, no other changes was adjusted to that effect, everything from staff management to logistic (Oh logistic) remain the same, using the same concept since cold war.
> 
> Smaller organic unit needs mobility and instant support to make it work, otherwise when you are getting pin with a smaller unit (as it happened in Battle of Kyiv) you are going to get bogged down. There are 2 major issues as we can see from the current war. 1.) not enough use of the Air Force 2.) The phaseline concept of Logistic simply cannot cope.
> 
> In smaller unit engagement, air support are primary, since you need to out manoeuvre your enemy, by putting troop and supporting element in place before your enemy did, the only way you can do so is by air, which would require a complete dependent of the Air Force. However, the old Soviet concept have set that Air Force is a supplementary element with its role relegated to supporting the ground movement. With that, Air Force don't fly SEAD, and take out Air Defence and the only role of the Russian Air Force is for Close Air Support. And without that air dominance, you don't get to deploy troop from A to B quicker than the Ukrainian did, especially Ukrainian have the home turf. That is why the Russian unit did make some initial gain but all but evaporated at the later stage of the first phase.
> 
> Just to make a major comparsion, according to US Air Force (which monitor Air Sortie in Ukraine) Russian launched some 300 air sorties during the first month in war. At the first Iraq war, US and Coalition launched over 100,000 in the entire air phase (also lasted roughly a month) of Gulf war, preceding he land incursion. You can't achieve air superiority with 300 sorties no matter how incompetent your enemy air defence is.........
> 
> Another issue Russian facing is the logistic can't cope with the current reform, as the concept of logistic has not undergo reform. in the old way, logistic is done by rail and logistic hub were litter around the rail line. That is due to the fact that since cold war, Russian Army move in bulk, deployed with regiments and you supply the troop in a regimental scale. However, this is not going to work when you break down the unit into battalion side and try to support each Battalion by land. Compare the US Concept of logistic, the log train goes from regional command (in Afghanistan for example, there are 4 regional command, RC North, South, East and West) and from those Regional Command, dedicated logistic line were use to feed troop forward deployed using medium lift helicopter and dedicated convoy network, say if I want to supply my troop in Kandahar region, first I fly my supplied to KAF then filter them out to each camp, and from then either fly them our of truck them into each FOB.
> 
> In Ukraine, this is not done, everything done thru central axis, so where your troop goes, your logistic goes, that's mean both log train and troop uses the same MSR to get into position, the heavy use of roadway plus being able to ambush would mean both troop and logistic would be stuck somewhere along the road simply because everyone is using the same road to get to where they want to go.....That's why you have that 60km convoy, it may look impressive but in realistic term, that is nothing but a giant target.
> 
> Which mean when they try their "BTG" concept, this is bound to fail, and when it does, Russia get no choice but to revert it back to how they used to fight, a giant fist depending on their artillery superiority that try to crush everything in its way, if you look at the current battle of donbas, you don't see Battalion Tactical group working individually fully taking advantage of their organic structure, but instead, you are seeing a giant blob of Russian force, that account for the slow progress in Donbas. In fact, it is lucky for the Russian, because if Ukraine have more artillery than they had or have a more competent air force, they can disrupt the Russian force by thinning out the herd.


Your analysis is accurate.

China military fans have observed Russia military reform since 2000s, I started to watch Russia military reform since 2010s.

China started military reform later than Russia, but relatively more successful. Russia tried several times to reform, back and forth, and now we knew it failed.

In China, we call Russia military reform as 1/2 reform, it only reformed the outside, but not inside. War and Military is an expertise, a highly specialized technique and requires a well functional organization, as well as huge resource.

China military reform actually learn from U.S. more than Russia. As you can see, China's military doctrine, equipment are more and more like U.S. instead of Russia.

If Ukraine got all the resources they needed from the very beginning, this war can be 10X more bloody and nasty.


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## Viet

vi-va said:


> War and military is an expertise, especially in 21st century. In WW2, Soviet outnumbered Nazi Germany, and Soviet can accept a loss of 26 millions. But it's not the case today.
> 
> Russia in on par with Ukraine on tactic, with stronger logistics and firepower, but that's all.
> 
> This really disappointed me a lot.


Germany military is another league it can start WW3 tomorrow if fully rearmed. That’s unrealistic scenario though. Russia today is like Venezuela an energy rich country run by a bus driver. You can’t expect much from it.

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## sammuel

Viet said:


> Yes many US servicemen would still alive. Most wars are worthless. sometimes people realize late why a war starts at all.
> About weapons unbalance between Ukraine and Russia, it says 1:15. However it’s not certain at all Putin will win. The US lost the Vietnam war, despite 1:150 in US favor.
> 
> Ukraine will win this war, I have no doubt. I am willing to bet my car on this.




If Ukraine can keep it's independence and most of it's territory , than this is a win for Ukraine. And a huge success considering where it stood 3 months ago.

I do not think anyone expected this huge convoy near Kiev , to turn tail and run defeated , back to Russia. That was a huge victory for Ukraine.

Don't know if the Ukrainians can push all the Russians back to Russia , but they sure seem to be able to hold them off and make it their stay a costly one, specially if they get more weapons.

That may be enough for Russia to agree to end the war.


Main mystery here is what does Putin really want .

This " special operation " of his , which the name " Operation Grab What you Can " , is a rather more fitting name.

But reaching an agreement with this person , who so far has been far less than honest about what he really wants , does not look easy.


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## Muhammed45

Viet said:


> Germany military is another league it can start WW3 tomorrow if fully rearmed. That’s unrealistic scenario though. Russia today is like Venezuela an energy rich country run by a bus driver. You can’t expect much from it.


I hope they invade France again. lol

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## Muhammed45

vi-va said:


> Your analysis is accurate.
> 
> China military fans have observed Russia military reform since 2000s, I started to watch Russia military reform since 2010s.
> 
> China started military reform later than Russia, but relatively more successful. Russia tried several times to reform, back and forth, and now we knew it failed.
> 
> In China, we call Russia military reform as 1/2 reform, it only reformed the outside, but not inside. War and Military is an expertise, a highly specialized technique and requires a well functional organization, as well as huge resource.
> 
> China military reform actually learn from U.S. more than Russia. As you can see, China's military doctrine, equipment are more and more like U.S. instead of Russia.
> 
> If Ukraine got all the resources they needed from the very beginning, this war can be 10X more bloody and nasty.


I don't agree with your understanding of the recent events. The first question that comes to mind is, does the Russian army want to fight a US style war? Occupy the target country under a fake excuse against the will of its inhabitants? The answer is NO, neither Russian economy can withstand such a scenario. 

Russia wants its people stop suffering from western racial segregation. To reach this goal, they have to occupy Russian living parts of Moldova too. 

In fact Russians are not going to occupy parts of EU, they want Russian lands return to their country. And so far they have used Soviets era military hardware against Ukraine for 2 reasons, first and foremost Ukraine is not a match to to RUssian military power, and secondly they save money by dropping outdated missiles on Ukrainian positions. 

The fact that US led Euro-vassals hate RUssian speaking people, convinced Russia to defend its people from western led racism hence war on Ukrainian NAZIs.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Shoigu is a dumb stooge. He is not military man. He is appointed by Putin because he is a loyal stooge. Nothing more. His previous position was minister for civil catastrophe.


The root clause of all these, as you may have guessed it, is money.

By using the Battalion Tactical Group, you effectively deploy 2 BTG per Regiment, but still keep the money for the entire regimental deployment, say it take 1 millions dollar (a hypothetical value, i dont' know how much it cost to maintain a Regiment) to upkeep a regiment, in effect, you only need to service 60% of those regiment to keep the BTG thing rolling, because that's roughly 60-65% of the entire regiment. And wonder where is the other money goes? Because you only need to maintain the unit (the BTG) you are sending the battle, you don't need to maintain the unit that was not attached to any BTG.

Any military reform have to studied and plan with a long lead in before hand, I think the entire restructure is done in about 3 months after he was appointed that position.



vi-va said:


> Shoigu call himself Zhukov. But he has no military background, nor any war experience.
> 
> I will not trust a general who has no real military experience at all.
> 
> That's Putin's fault, appointed a man like Shoigu, humiliated Russia military.


The last guy he replaced is not any good as well. 

IIRC he started another military reform to install a professional NCO corps and reduce the number of Officer, he did the later part not the first part..

That in a way have a direct contribution why Russia is losing a lot of General in this war, what has it up to now? 11?


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536990977881251841

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536985796699357184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536969757387284482

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## wahhab0202

jhungary said:


> Again, otherwise we would have force Afghan government hand and turn over everything...And again, we have 20 years to do that, if we want to suck everything out, 20 years is more than enough. I mean look at Russia, taking part of Ukraine for over 100 days, already stolen millions tons of grain, think about what 20 years can do, if we want to do it?
> 
> Did we do that? no.


US couldn't exploit the natural resources of Afghanistan due to stiff resistance of Taliban. US control the (Big) cities, rural areas were contested or controlled by warlords including Taliban's. US companies would be stupid to invest their resources there.
By the way US military took 20 tons of Afghanistan's gold (the real money).

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## Paul2

vi-va said:


> Your analysis is accurate.
> 
> China military fans have observed Russia military reform since 2000s, I started to watch Russia military reform since 2010s.
> 
> China started military reform later than Russia, but relatively more successful. Russia tried several times to reform, back and forth, and now we knew it failed.
> 
> In China, we call Russia military reform as 1/2 reform, it only reformed the outside, but not inside. War and Military is an expertise, a highly specialized technique and requires a well functional organization, as well as huge resource.
> 
> China military reform actually learn from U.S. more than Russia. As you can see, China's military doctrine, equipment are more and more like U.S. instead of Russia.
> 
> If Ukraine got all the resources they needed from the very beginning, this war can be 10X more bloody and nasty.



China without a doubt can do better when it comes to hardware production. Electronics is especially easy for us vs. the rest of the world. Our PGMs are like 10 times cheaper than American ones.

Average vehicle life in PLA first line units went from 30+ to 20 years. The worst of nineties era hardware has already been sent to smelter.

PLA is still a very light force relative to its size. Compact, and efficient core force, but everything else is so so.

The state of our sub fleet, and airforce is what people in circles are now whispering about.

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## jhungary

wahhab0202 said:


> US couldn't exploit the natural resources of Afghanistan due to stiff resistance of Taliban. US control the (Big) cities, rural areas were contested or controlled by warlords including Taliban's. US companies would be stupid to invest their resources there.
> By the way US military took 20 tons of Afghanistan's gold (the real money).


lol. who told you that?

You do know those mine I talked about, had been operating throughout the war. These profit, however, did not go to the central government, instead it has been pocketed by warlord and in some degree, felt back to Taliban pocket.









Mining in Afghanistan - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





And you want to know how I know? I was there, I was in one of those mine guarding the warlord we are assigned to protect in exchange for feeding information about Taliban movement in the East. If we can't control those mine, how do you think we can control our COP, our camp?? You think all our COP, PB and FOB are in the big city??

Dude, you are funny.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537055088388231169

First rocket systems to be deployed next week


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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537055088388231169
> 
> First rocket systems to be deployed next week




The Pentagon also believes Russia has lost 30% of its tank and armored vehicle inventory and expended 70% of its precision guided munitions.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> The Pentagon also believes Russia has lost 30% of its tank and armored vehicle inventory and expended 70% of its precision guided munitions.



Replacement already manufactured.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536810845036060676


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537069971381096456

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537071047610191872
The US will supply Ukraine with vehicle mounted Harpoon anti ship missiles in the next weapons package


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## Apollon

Corax said:


> All I here is pussy talk from NATO and US poodles like you. You keep mouthing about NATO this and that, all the while more than happy for the Ukies to do all the fighting and be slaughtered by the Russians. Talk is cheap, and it doesn't come much cheaper than the likes of you. At least the Russians have the balls to make true on their threats, unlike the rednecks and french poodles. Stope talking and make true on your threats...but wait...you don't have the balls.



If im so powerful that i can kill you remotly, why should i directly intervene?


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537056682718666752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537051471438544901


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537071047610191872
> The US will supply Ukraine with vehicle mounted Harpoon anti ship missiles in the next weapons package



I think it's better if the US supply Orion maritime patrol planes which can carry Harpoon to Sevastopol or even Novorossyisk where Kalibr missiles are launched.


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## vi-va

Viet said:


> Germany military is another league it can start WW3 tomorrow if fully rearmed. That’s unrealistic scenario though. Russia today is like Venezuela an energy rich country run by a bus driver. You can’t expect much from it.


Germany military is not ready at all.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

vi-va said:


> Germany military is not ready at all.



Germans are pussified after WW2. Even if Germany has the tanks, German men are too pussy to fight like they did before 1946. Because of liberalism, all they care about these days are what gender they are.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537082273174106113


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## Corax

Apollon said:


> If im so powerful that i can kill you remotly, why should i directly intervene?



That makes you no better than the Russian and Ukie Nazis. Doesn't bother me, as long as the "master race" are slaughtering each other, who cares. All western European US poodle pussies like you can do is talk tough, no balls.

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## wahhab0202

F-22Raptor said:


> The Pentagon also believes Russia has lost 30% of its tank and armored vehicle inventory and expended 70% of its precision guided munitions.


I've been hearing this since 3 months ago that Russian running out of this and that. They are still advancing and taking territories little by little.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Corax said:


> That makes you no better than the Russian and Ukie Nazis. Doesn't bother me, as long as the "master race" are slaughtering each other, who cares. All western European US poodle pussies like you can do is talk tough, no balls.



@Apollon is not master race. He's just a southern European who is a German wannabe.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537082273174106113



1 billion is too little. Needs to be 1 trillion to last a few months. HIMARS ammo costs like 10,000 each.

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## vi-va

Muhammed45 said:


> I don't agree with your understanding of the recent events. The first question that comes to mind is, does the Russian army want to fight a US style war? Occupy the target country under a fake excuse against the will of its inhabitants? The answer is NO, neither Russian economy can withstand such a scenario.
> 
> Russia wants its people stop suffering from western racial segregation. To reach this goal, they have to occupy Russian living parts of Moldova too.
> 
> In fact Russians are not going to occupy parts of EU, they want Russian lands return to their country. And so far they have used Soviets era military hardware against Ukraine for 2 reasons, first and foremost Ukraine is not a match to to RUssian military power, and secondly they save money by dropping outdated missiles on Ukrainian positions.
> 
> The fact that US led Euro-vassals hate RUssian speaking people, convinced Russia to defend its people from western led racism hence war on Ukrainian NAZIs.


Let's put the politics aside for now. I am just analyzing the war from military perspective.

You can agree with @jhungary, or disagree with his analysis. But his analysis has a point, this is not a well-prepared operation. The Gulf War in 1990 was a well-prepared one.

Take a look at the pic below, it's not right at all. The original plan in Feb. has failed. The current operation is not well organized.

Putin made a sudden move, surprised every country, but his army is not ready for this move neither.

Russia will take land from Ukraine, here and there, but I don't see a peace agreement on the horizon.


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## jhungary

wahhab0202 said:


> I've been hearing this since 3 months ago that Russian running out of this and that. They are still advancing and taking territories little by little.


Actually, they lose more in Kherson than they gain in Sieverodonetsk. It's estimated 70% of Sieverodonetsk is in russian Hand, but Ukrainian took back around 40% of the entire Kherson Oblast, Russia now own around 60% of the entire Oblast and Ukrainian position is within 15 km from City Centre. It used to be 100%....So in effect, they took 70% of a city, but losing 40% of an entire Oblast...

Also, it would not be hard to deduce the reason the Russian progress slowly is because they ran out of Precision munition, otherwise they could probably advance more as you have more precise CAS supporting your movement.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537071624339464195


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Actually, they lose more in Kherson than they gain in Sieverodonetsk. It's estimated 70% of Sieverodonetsk is in russian Hand, but Ukrainian took back around 40% of the entire Kherson Oblast, Russia now own around 60% of the entire Oblast and Ukrainian position is within 15 km from City Centre. It used to be 100%....So in effect, they took 70% of a city, but losing 40% of an entire Oblast...
> 
> Also, it would not be hard to deduce the reason the Russian progress slowly is because they ran out of Precision munition, otherwise they could probably advance more as you have more precise CAS supporting your movement.



Kherson is secure and Ukraine will never take it back. Not sure why Kherson is even being discussed.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537045529749770240


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537055485542768640



reported for posting a post not related to the thread

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## Apollon

Corax said:


> That makes you no better than the Russian and Ukie Nazis. Doesn't bother me, as long as the "master race" are slaughtering each other, who cares. All western European US poodle pussies like you can do is talk tough, no balls.



We cooked 30.000 russians in their tanks by now. The majority of those russians look like that: 









Putin uses only central asians on the front and throws them in the meat grinder


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## Corax

Apollon said:


> We cooked 30.000 russians in their tanks by now. The majority of those russians look like that:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin uses only central asians on the front and throws them in the meat grinder



Not true. Most of the dead Russians are from the "Caucasian" Western part.

See this website resource if you can stomach it, lots of dead "master race" on show here...

https://russoldat.info/category/poteri-rf/tela/

You do realise modern Greeks are the product of invading armies from Persia, the Middle East and North Africa? Most of your genetic make up is from Asia.

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## Primus

jhungary said:


> Actually, they lose more in Kherson than they gain in Sieverodonetsk. It's estimated 70% of Sieverodonetsk is in russian Hand, but Ukrainian took back around 40% of the entire Kherson Oblast, Russia now own around 60% of the entire Oblast and Ukrainian position is within 15 km from City Centre. It used to be 100%....So in effect, they took 70% of a city, but losing 40% of an entire Oblast...
> 
> Also, it would not be hard to deduce the reason the Russian progress slowly is because they ran out of Precision munition, otherwise they could probably advance more as you have more precise CAS supporting your movement.


Whats an oblast?


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537034110434164738


Huffal said:


> Whats an oblast?



It is Slavic word for province more or less.

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## jhungary

Huffal said:


> Whats an oblast?


Oblast is an administrative area that is defined across Ukraine. Oblast is the biggest administration area (They are like States in the US), followed by Raion (District), followed by Hromada (Municipality) and finally City Center.

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## Get Ya Wig Split

Tai Hai Chen said:


> reported for posting a post not related to the thread


Go ahead punk boy...


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Oblast is an administrative area that is defined across Ukraine. Oblast is the biggest administration area (They are like States in the US), followed by Raion (District), followed by Hromada (Municipality) and finally City Center.



Oblast is not like state. States have a great deal of autonomy and have elected state government. Oblast has no autonomy. Oblast governors are appointed by president. Russia's republics are counterparts of states.



Get Ya Wig Split said:


> Go ahead punk boy...



I did. Punk boy.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537103291351433218


----------



## Viet

Putin is generous.
He pays every soldier 4,500 euros per month for 3, 6 or 12 month contract.
Should they come back not alive, the family gets 80,000 euros on top.





__





High Casualties: Russia Pulls Out All the Stops to Find Fresh Troops - DER SPIEGEL






www.spiegel.de


----------



## ckf

Tai Hai Chen said:


> @Apollon is not master race. He's just a southern European who is a German wannabe.
> 
> 
> 
> 1 billion is too little. Needs to be 1 trillion to last a few months. HIMARS ammo costs like 10,000 each.


Himars unguided rockets cost like $750k. It's going to be an expensive war for US to fund the Ukranians. US doesn't have a huge stockpile of these rockets either. The war of attrition is going to be billions to kill hundreds of soldiers per day on both sides. US/EU is funding close to $200 million a day on both military and civic funding. Russians probably spending a third the amount adjusting for PPP/stockpile of weapons used and its economy is holding up betteer than Ukraine. So this war is $267 million a day to kill couple hundred soldiers per day. What a dirty war.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537012716573016065


ckf said:


> Himars unguided rockets cost like $750k. It's going to be an expensive war for US to fund the Ukranians. US doesn't have a huge stockpile of these rockets either. The war of attrition is going to be billions to kill hundreds of soldiers per day on both sides. US/EU is funding close to $200 million a day on both military and civic funding. Russians probably spending a third the amount adjusting for PPP/stockpile of weapons used and its economy is holding up betteer than Ukraine. So this war is $267 million a day to kill couple hundred soldier per day. What a dirty war.



Whatever makes the military industrial complex rich. The next package is going to be 400 billion dollars, almost the entire US military defense budget in a year.

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## Viet

ckf said:


> Himars unguided rockets cost like $750k. It's going to be an expensive war for US to fund the Ukranians. US doesn't have a huge stockpile of these rockets either. The war of attrition is going to be billions to kill hundreds of soldiers per day on both sides. US/EU is funding close to $200 million a day on both military and civic funding. Russians probably spending a third the amount adjusting for PPP/stockpile of weapons used and its economy is holding up betteer than Ukraine. So this war is $267 million a day to kill couple hundred soldier per day. What a dirty war.


War is not cheap for Russia either. It costs Russia huge sum, more than Ukraine. Per western estimates the war costs Russia about one billion USD per day. The sanctions already cost Russia one trillion USD. But the worst is yet to come for Russia.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537011323330080769


Viet said:


> War is not cheap for Russia either. It costs Russia huge sum, more than Ukraine. Per western estimates the war costs Russia about one billion USD per day. The sanctions already cost Russia one trillion USD. But the worst is yet to come for Russia.



War is profitable for Russia's military industrial complex. They are now manufacturing more than ever.

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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537011323330080769
> 
> 
> War is profitable for Russia's military industrial complex. They are now manufacturing more than ever.


But you can’t spend money twice. If you have $100 you have to choose, can go out with family for dinner, having pho noodle soups, or buy a gun to kill neighbor’s dog.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> But you can’t spend money twice. If you have $100 you have to choose, can go out with family for dinner, having pho noodle soups, or buy a gun to kill neighbor’s dog.



Modern money is printed by government. Government can print as much as it likes. Civilians are not allowed to print money, but government is allowed to print money. Printing more money means more money in circulation means inflation.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537011046258450433

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537124207112462336


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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Modern money is printed by government. Government can print as much as it likes. Civilians are not allowed to print money, but government is allowed to print money. Printing more money means more money in circulation means inflation.


The US printing money is not the same as Russia printing money. If Putin prints rubles who takes it except the russians? What they can buy with rubles today? He has the choice he can raise russian living standard or spends money on war of aggression. He chose the latter.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

low flying Su-25 SM3 artillery smashing jets


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537110779316543488


Viet said:


> The US printing money is not the same as Russia printing money. If Putin prints rubles who takes it except the russians? He has the choice he can raise russian living standard or spends money on war of aggression. He chose the latter.



Putin will not leave the people of Donbas to the mercy of Kiev army artillery. Either way, this is a permanent war, not a time limited war like Vietnam or Soviet war in Afghanistan.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537127721888882689


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537127721888882689



More than replaced already.

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## zzzz

Apollon said:


> We cooked 30.000 russians in their tanks by now. The majority of those russians look like that:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin uses only central asians on the front and throws them in the meat grinder



30.000 killed means 100.000 wounded, that means entire 150.000 group of Russian troops in Ukraine is eliminated in your delusional mind, but in reality it just continue succeful massacre of 700.000 strong Ukrainian army.

"We cooked" hahaha You are just a low iq cowardly troll from basement suffereing from enourmous buthurt. Prepare for harsh winter, blackouts, food shortages and disintegration of your shitty Fourth Reich (EU). It failed miserably

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537131536163667968


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## MeFishToo

zzzz said:


> 30.000 killed means 100.000 wounded, that means entire 150.000 group of Russian troops in Ukraine is eliminated in your delusional mind, but in reality it just continue succeful massacre of 700.000 strong Ukrainian army.
> 
> "We cooked" hahaha You are just a low iq cowardly troll from basement suffereing from enourmous buthurt. Prepare for harsh winter, blackouts, food shortages and disintegration of your shitty Fourth Reich (EU). It failed miserably


If youre from Russia, tell us the number of russian casualties. Youve been told, havent you? Or is the ukrainian guess as good as yours?


----------



## zzzz

jhungary said:


> Actually, they lose more in Kherson than they gain in Sieverodonetsk. It's estimated 70% of Sieverodonetsk is in russian Hand, but Ukrainian took back around 40% of the entire Kherson Oblast, Russia now own around 60% of the entire Oblast and Ukrainian position is within 15 km from City Centre. It used to be 100%....So in effect, they took 70% of a city, but losing 40% of an entire Oblast...



I see you are delusioning in different threads simultaneously. During past month Ukrainian army lost more than 2 000 soldiers in attacks near Kherson failing to take any single settlement. Russia controls 95% of Kherson Oblast.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537132687093293062


MeFishToo said:


> If youre from Russia, tell us the number of russian casualties. Youve been told, havent you? Or is the ukrainian guess as good as yours?



What difference does it make? Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. Hell, Russia has millions of unemployed bums lying around drinking vodka with nothing better to do. When it comes to the numbers game, Ukraine cannot compete with Russia.

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537132687093293062
> 
> 
> What difference does it make? Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. Hell, Russia has millions of unemployed bums lying around drinking vodka with nothing better to do. When it comes to the numbers game, Ukraine cannot compete with Russia.


Russia hasnt mobilised, so yes it makes a difference. There is a reason why the footage of every single of those russian IFV being hit doesnt show 8-10 infantrymen dismount.


----------



## oberschlesier

zzzz said:


> Prepare for harsh winter, blackouts, food shortages and disintegration of your shitty Fourth Reich (EU). It failed miserably



What ? Inflation of ~ 10% for a year would rather not do it.
EU is net Food producer. Russia is not delivering Gas to Poland since 2 months. The stored Gas in PL increased in this time from 75% to 95%. Gas and Oil are not unique Products in the market...Rather forget doing normal business with us for the next decade or so. It`s some land in eastern Ukraine worth it, I highly doubt it.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Russia hasnt mobilised, so yes it makes a difference. There is a reason why the footage of every single of those russian IFV being hit doesnt show 8-10 infantrymen dismount.



It's a long game. This is a permanent war. Not mobilizing means enough rest for men. Ukraine on the other hand because only 25% of Russia's population they need to mobilize but this burns Ukraine out.


----------



## nang2

oberschlesier said:


> What ? Inflation of ~ 10% for a year would rather not do it.
> EU is net Food producer. Russia is not delivering Gas to Poland since 2 months. The stored Gas in PL increased in this time from 75% to 95%. Gas and Oil are not unique Products in the market...Rather forget doing normal business with us for the next decade or so. It`s some land in eastern Ukraine worth it, I highly doubt it.


The gas reserve increased from 75% to 95% at a cost. Look at the gas price these days. Who in normal time increases their reserve when price is high? Usually you release from your reserve when price is high and increase your reserve when price is low. The increase of the reserve at high price is out of fear of prolonged shortage.

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## Get Ya Wig Split

Mark "I let my nuts hang" Milley

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537140476062666755

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537140481301291014

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537140485231353856

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537140489916502017

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537140493771059203

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537140497663381507

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> It's a long game. This is a permanent war. Not mobilizing means enough rest for men. Ukraine on the other hand because only 25% of Russia's population they need to mobilize but this burns Ukraine out.


What makes you think the ordinary russians wants to fight this war fueled by nothing else but Putin and his lackeys ambitions?
Its preatty easy rooting for war and wearing a t-shirt with the letter Z back home in Russia. Its a completely different thing crossing the border facing millions of ukrainians that will show you nothing but hate while fighting for their homeland. And those same ukrainians are backed by the most powerful alliance in the world.


----------



## oberschlesier

nang2 said:


> The gas reserve increased from 75% to 95% at a cost. Look at the gas price these days. Who in normal time increases their reserve when price is high? Usually you release from your reserve when price is high and increase your reserve when price is low. The increase of the reserve at high price is out of fear of prolonged shortage.


You always increase your reserves for the Winter, but agree It is/was/will be costly, that is why the increased price is reflected in inflation. Buying Gas now( all of Europe is doing this ) is mostly caused by Gazprom is not seen a serious business partner anymore, so you have to prepare yourself. The Gas price will stabilize, it`s not a unique commodity in the market, just setting the logistics takes time.


----------



## nang2

oberschlesier said:


> You always increase your reserves for the Winter, but agree It is/was/will be costly, that is why the increased price is reflected in inflation. Buying Gas now( all of Europe is doing this ) is mostly caused by Gazprom is not seen a serious business partner anymore, so you have to prepare yourself. The Gas price will stabilize, it`s not a unique commodity in the market, just setting the logistics takes time.


Well, don't blame on Gazprom. It is EU that has demonstrated not to be a serious business partner. Gazprom didn't start the war but EU initiated the sanction that renders Euro to be useless to Gazprom.

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## oberschlesier

nang2 said:


> Well, don't blame on Gazprom. It is EU that has demonstrated not to be a serious business partner. Gazprom didn't start the war but EU initiated the sanction that renders Euro to be useless to Gazprom.


I blame it on Gazprom. They stoped the Gas supplies, breaking a long term contract. I don`t care if the USD, EUR is useless for them, it`s their Problem. Gas is not a unique commodity and Gazprom is not the only supplier.

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## zartosht

ZeGerman said:


> “The invasion's aims were to dismantle al-Qaeda, which had executed the September 11 attacks, and to deny it a safe base of operations in Afghanistan by removing the Taliban government from power.”
> 
> The initial invasion did succeed in these though the taliban was able to return and contest power in certain areas. However the taliban also stepped away from supporting international terrorists.
> 
> The main fuckup was that there was no exit plan. That an extra goal was introduced in “nation building” afghanistan into a pro-western democratic government.
> 
> But i do not know why so many pakistanis are jumping up and down about a so called “humililiating military defeat” while the coalition never lost a military engagement…and simply lost patience hand holding ANA.
> 
> Eventually the afghans have to “help themselves” and stand on their own feet.
> Turns out they did not want to put up a fight and instead tolerate taliban regime rule. So be it. Clash of cultures and something to keep in mind when dealing with the middle east.



Because not everyone is dumb enough to not only believe the official propaganda narrative. But combine it with olympic level mental gymsnastics to get around the humiliation that was the collapse of the afghan government with american troops running away with chopper convoys vietnam style.

Some people saw that the americans were trying to build a base around a pro-washington puppet government. Whereby the US would have a very strategic footing right in the middle of Russia, China and Iran. This was the necocon goal of 20 years of "nation building" They werent doing it because their hearts just bled for the poor afghan girl the evil taliban put a burqa on....get your head out of your *** (MSM propaganda) already

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## K_Bin_W

zartosht said:


> Because not everyone is dumb enough to not only believe the official propaganda narrative. But combine it with olympic level mental gymsnastics to get around the humiliation that was the collapse of the afghan government with american troops running away with chopper convoys vietnam style.
> 
> Some people saw that the americans were trying to build a base around a pro-washington puppet government. Whereby the US would have a very strategic footing right in the middle of Russia, China and Iran. This was the necocon goal of 20 years of "nation building" They werent doing it because their hearts just bled for the poor afghan girl the evil taliban put a burqa on....get your head out of your *** (MSM propaganda) already


You hit the nail right on the head w.r.t. prime motive of US.

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## ZeGerman

Tai Hai Chen said:


> More than replaced already.


Yeah with T-62? 

Could you provide links and basis for your posts instead of baseless dribble that have nothing to do with state of the military and logistics?

“Russia has 4 times population, can lose millions soldiers”
Or
“Russia manufacters faster, everything is replaced”


----------



## northeast

oberschlesier said:


> You always increase your reserves for the Winter, but agree It is/was/will be costly, that is why the increased price is reflected in inflation. Buying Gas now( all of Europe is doing this ) is mostly caused by Gazprom is not seen a serious business partner anymore, so you have to prepare yourself. The Gas price will stabilize, it`s not a unique commodity in the market, just setting the logistics takes time.


LNG is much more expensive than pipeline gas,EU industry will be heavily damaged and could be easily replaced by industrial products import from china. The import from china to EU just jumped more than 20% while export to china declined.

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## ZeGerman

zartosht said:


> Because not everyone is dumb enough to not only believe the official propaganda narrative. But combine it with olympic level mental gymsnastics to get around the humiliation that was the collapse of the afghan government with american troops running away with chopper convoys vietnam style.
> 
> Some people saw that the americans were trying to build a base around a pro-washington puppet government. Whereby the US would have a very strategic footing right in the middle of Russia, China and Iran. This was the necocon goal of 20 years of "nation building" They werent doing it because their hearts just bled for the poor afghan girl the evil taliban put a burqa on....get your head out of your *** (MSM propaganda) already


When i say “nation building in pro western democracy” ofcourse that includes it being in american bloc and with us bases. 

This however was not the initial war goal. 
And again. Never losing a military engagement, yet simply stop handholding ANA is hardly a “humiliation” of the military/military might.
More so of the political planners. 


Ffs ANA had more military material and support then the ukranian army….they folded in a week.


----------



## Hack-Hook

DF41 said:


>


Honestly, seriously

Russia need to made a competition to write some poem to use in such occasion beside this one

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## oberschlesier

northeast said:


> LNG is much more expensive than pipeline gas,EU industry will be heavily damaged and could be easily replaced by industrial products import from china. The import from china to EU just jumped more than 20% while export to china declined.


Sure, it`s more expensive, but the EU industry is going to be heavily damaged ? You overestimate the impact of basic resources in the whole value chain, the size of the internal market and the human capital factor is what matters. If you produce high quality/innovative/unique products, then the prices does not matter so much, look at Switzerland as an example.

The imports to the EU from China increased in 2021 very much, imports as well...








Significant increase in EU imports from China


Trade with China, the EU’s third-largest export destination and the largest import partner, has increased significantly in 2021. The COVID-19 crisis caused both exports and imports between the EU and China to slow down in the first months of 2020, but both quickly recovered over the following...




ec.europa.eu





Due to the COVID ups/dows your 20% could make sense.

Lately the PR of China/Chinease Products is the EU are not getting any better due to the open support of Russia.

For scale the PL-DE Trade is about 150B Euro / year. Poland has 38M People.
RU-DE Trade is 60B Euro / year. Russia has 145 M People and is the biggest country in the world. We often make have fun of Russia in PL, because of... Facts.


----------



## nang2

oberschlesier said:


> I blame it on Gazprom. They stoped the Gas supplies, breaking a long term contract. I don`t care if the USD, EUR is useless for them, it`s their Problem. Gas is not a unique commodity and Gazprom is not the only supplier.


Typical rude attitude of "I can hit you but you cannot hit back".

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537154276245524480

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## oberschlesier

nang2 said:


> Typical rude attitude of "I can hit you but you cannot hit back".


Rude ? It`s Business. The contract was in USD, so I pay in USD. Gazprom wanted to change the way the payments is done. It`s exactly the same case if the Polish side would suddenly like to pay half of the price.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> Yeah with T-62?
> 
> Could you provide links and basis for your posts instead of baseless dribble that have nothing to do with state of the military and logistics?
> 
> “Russia has 4 times population, can lose millions soldiers”
> Or
> “Russia manufacters faster, everything is replaced”



Tanks aren't useful in modern warfare. Too heavy, cumbersome, consume too much fuel, takes too long to manufacture. The US hasn't built a single Abrams tank since the 90s. Lighter combat vehicles like BMD-4M make much better sense and can be used as tank destroyers armed with anti tank missiles.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537143926280409088

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537143926280409088

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537149981446049794

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## ZeGerman

nang2 said:


> Well, don't blame on Gazprom. It is EU that has demonstrated not to be a serious business partner. Gazprom didn't start the war but EU initiated the sanction that renders Euro to be useless to Gazprom.



Gazprom deliberately delayed resupplies even before the war, causing several countries to have extremely low reserves. 

This was all part of the plan in line with the later invasion of Ukraine ofcourse.
And now they single handedly changed contracts and breach contracts.

Russia can never be trusted on this again.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536778419677155330

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## 925boy

Viet said:


> War is not cheap for Russia either.


War isnt cheap, period but go on.


Viet said:


> It costs Russia huge sum,


what is "huge sum"?? Afterall Russia has local economies of scale from domestic production and equipment maufacturing, so its costs will always be loser than US for eg.


Viet said:


> more than Ukraine.


Even after Ukraine has lost over 20% of their country FOREVER? u have simple understanding of the word "cost"


Viet said:


> Per western estimates the war costs Russia about one billion USD per day.


So you just buy what westerners say as if u cant think for yourself? please provide proof, because RUssia is far from bankrupt, and the war is going on months now, so someone is lying, and ur involved with their propaganda now.


Viet said:


> The sanctions already cost Russia one trillion USD.


based on whaat? what Westerners "estimate" AGAIIN? but its obv cost US as much ,because Biden is in US telling Americans Putin caused inflation, for a war US indirectly provoked. lmao.


Viet said:


> But the worst is yet to come for Russia.


Russia or Ukraine? Cuz one of those 2 countries WILL NEVER BE THE SAME AGAIN. which one do u think that is?

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## northeast

oberschlesier said:


> Sure, it`s more expensive, but the EU industry is going to be heavily damaged ? You overestimate the impact of basic resources in the whole value chain, the size of the internal market and the human capital factor is what matters. If you produce high quality/innovative/unique products, then the prices does not matter so much, look at Switzerland as an example.
> 
> The imports to the EU from China increased in 2021 very much, imports as well...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Significant increase in EU imports from China
> 
> 
> Trade with China, the EU’s third-largest export destination and the largest import partner, has increased significantly in 2021. The COVID-19 crisis caused both exports and imports between the EU and China to slow down in the first months of 2020, but both quickly recovered over the following...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ec.europa.eu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Due to the COVID ups/dows your 20% could make sense.
> 
> Lately the PR of China/Chinease Products is the EU are not getting any better due to the open support of Russia.
> 
> For scale the PL-DE Trade is about 150B Euro / year. Poland has 38M People.
> RU-DE Trade is 60B Euro / year. Russia has 145 M People and is the biggest country in the world. We often make have fun of Russia in PL, because of... Facts.


It could well be the last straw.




__





German trade with China in April unaffected by Covid lockdowns, imports up 52.8% , exports down 1.5%


German trade with China in April unaffected by COVID-19 lockdowns, imports up 52.8% , exports down 1.5% June 13, 2022 BERLIN, June 13 (Reuters) - German trade with China in April was little affected by COVID-19 lockdowns and consequent disarray in supply chains, the Federal Statistics Office...



defence.pk

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## 925boy

ZeGerman said:


> Russia can never be trusted on this again.


LMAO- says A member of UNTRUSTWORTHY NATO...sure...we believe u.

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## oberschlesier

925boy said:


> LMAO- says A member of UNTRUSTWORTHY NATO...sure...we believe u.


"we" ?

I belive him. 



northeast said:


> It coulld well be the last straw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> German trade with China in April unaffected by Covid lockdowns, imports up 52.8% , exports down 1.5%
> 
> 
> German trade with China in April unaffected by COVID-19 lockdowns, imports up 52.8% , exports down 1.5% June 13, 2022 BERLIN, June 13 (Reuters) - German trade with China in April was little affected by COVID-19 lockdowns and consequent disarray in supply chains, the Federal Statistics Office...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


Better, that the trade stabiles, otherwise it`s bad for EU and China as well. A Conflict is not worth it.


----------



## 925boy

oberschlesier said:


> "we" ?
> 
> I belive him.





oberschlesier said:


> Rude ? It`s Business. The contract was in USD, so I pay in USD. Gazprom wanted to change the way the payments is done. It`s exactly the same case if the Polish side would suddenly like to pay half of the price.


Does Poland need a national therapist for the ANXIETY the Ukraine war has caused it? You guys need to be very careful - NATO wont save you, and you will end up disadvantaged in the end if you make a stupid move. Screenshot this if you're feeling some type of way.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537156009155862532


----------



## Dalit

What a highly satisfactory feeling to see the Russians steamroll Western interests in Ukraine.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537149981446049794



These two need to be taught a lesson they will never forget. Literally dumb and dumber in action.

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## dbc

nang2 said:


> Gazprom didn't start the war but EU


Yes it did, Gazprom is owned by the Russian State.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536850500385112064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537016254472544262

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## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536850500385112064
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537016254472544262



The Ukrainians are pleading for more heavier weapons. Are you going to deliver?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536643450581434369

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536643452611477504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536883549378420736

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536906531454734336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537109234801954817

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537095252909117442

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537168673504378886

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537174365732839425

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537030171181649921

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## RoadAmerica

Muhammed45 said:


> I don't agree with your understanding of the recent events. The first question that comes to mind is, does the Russian army want to fight a US style war? Occupy the target country under a fake excuse against the will of its inhabitants? The answer is NO, neither Russian economy can withstand such a scenario.
> 
> Russia wants its people stop suffering from western racial segregation. To reach this goal, they have to occupy Russian living parts of Moldova too.
> 
> In fact Russians are not going to occupy parts of EU, they want Russian lands return to their country. And so far they have used Soviets era military hardware against Ukraine for 2 reasons, first and foremost Ukraine is not a match to to RUssian military power, and secondly they save money by dropping outdated missiles on Ukrainian positions.
> 
> The fact that US led Euro-vassals hate RUssian speaking people, convinced Russia to defend its people from western led racism hence war on Ukrainian NAZIs.


🤣 seriously you think Russia is only using those outdated weapons and Ukraine has proven to be quite a match my friend


----------



## jhungary

Flight of falcon said:


> View attachment 853406


What kind of gas tank you have there??

$120 a tank? even if we are talking about California price (Which is high 5 and low 6per ) you are talking about 20 gallon gas tank. Most car have 10 or at best 15 gallon tank....


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537225851699621888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537013498873532418

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537224990369943552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537222483396694016


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537064784717389825

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537042265688129536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537118512845672449

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537118654772432904
Retired US General Wesley Clark, former commander of NATO forces in Europe
*NATO must "beyond limits" on the war in Ukraine. According to him
If the coalition does not do this, it must "discontinue its activities".*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537111981060149248
US Chief of Staff: *We have provided with our allies 97,000 anti-tank systems for Ukraine.*

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## The SC

A recent photo showing Russian reinforcements and support on Snake Island






1. Air defense sites, armored personnel carriers and vehicle equipment.
2. The locations of trenches, fortifications and camouflage networks.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537081616857694209

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537108592549154817

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536931669856370688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537221986597777408


----------



## rezidiaz

Konflik Rusia-Ukraina juga membuat Amerika Serikat tidak kondusif. Akibat konflik tersebut, Amerika Serikat menjadi krisis energi dan perekonomian dikhawatirkan akan mempengaruhi perekonomian dunia.

sumber: defenseuptodate.com


----------



## Gomig-21

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537149981446049794



CNN just had the wife or girlfriend and also the mother of the fella to the right, the one who looks barely 20 years old and they were crying and were devastated of course. Who knows if and when either of those two will ever make it back and if they do, how long from now. It was pretty heavy but his GF or wife was explaining why he felt compelled to go and fight for Ukraine and she said it was a self imposed duty to go fight which I can see has some valor to it, but when you have a family and it's not your country whatsoever, you might want to reconsider making the ultimate sacrifice for a cause that you really have no connection to. I really felt sorry for those two ladies just balling to Anderson Cooper.

I can only imagine what the Russian soldiers would be feeling towards American ones in their captivity, ooof!

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537215579068588033

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537215068840001536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537215320737427458

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537214561127997440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537214426880913409


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Gomig-21 said:


> CNN just had the wife or girlfriend and also the mother of the fella to the right, the one who looks barely 20 years old and they were crying and were devastated of course. Who knows if and when either of those two will ever make it back and if they do, how long from now. It was pretty heavy but his GF or wife was explaining why he felt compelled to go and fight for Ukraine and she said it was a self imposed duty to go fight which I can see has some valor to it, but when you have a family and it's not your country whatsoever, you might want to reconsider making the ultimate sacrifice for a cause that you really have no connection to. I really felt sorry for those two ladies just balling to Anderson Cooper.
> 
> I can only imagine what the Russian soldiers would be feeling towards American ones in their captivity, ooof!



He was misled by US media portraying Russia as the bad guy. If he saw the crimes of humanity Kiev artillery perpetrated against the civilian population of Donbas he would have fought on the side of Donbas against the Kiev army.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537214076027342849

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537214084449505282

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537209311864176640

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537209200601972736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537205730322923522


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537214076027342849
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537214084449505282
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537209311864176640
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537209200601972736
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537205730322923522



If America invades Russia then China invades Taiwan in response. America can kiss Taiwan good bye forever.


----------



## The SC

in the Americas

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537205078288908294

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537205616577585159

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537198779358752769

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537198426236104705


Tai Hai Chen said:


> If America invades Russia then China invades Taiwan in response. America can kiss Taiwan good bye forever.


America invades Russia???


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537200245439873026


The SC said:


> America invades Russia???



In Americans dreams of course. They don't even dare to invade a bunch of rag tag Taliban let alone Russia.

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## ckf

ZeGerman said:


> This was all part of the plan in line with the later invasion of Ukraine ofcourse.
> And now they single handedly changed contracts and breach contracts.
> 
> Russia can never be trusted on this again.


That's funny, who's going to trust EU, UK and US after Russia state and individual asset confiscation, frozen foreign reserves and Swift ban. Apparently western civilization now based on the rule of thievery rather than commercial property rights/rule of law.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537199527509348353

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## ckf

Gomig-21 said:


> CNN just had the wife or girlfriend and also the mother of the fella to the right, the one who looks barely 20 years old and they were crying and were devastated of course. Who knows if and when either of those two will ever make it back and if they do, how long from now. It was pretty heavy but his GF or wife was explaining why he felt compelled to go and fight for Ukraine and she said it was a self imposed duty to go fight which I can see has some valor to it, but when you have a family and it's not your country whatsoever, you might want to reconsider making the ultimate sacrifice for a cause that you really have no connection to. I really felt sorry for those two ladies just balling to Anderson Cooper.
> 
> I can only imagine what the Russian soldiers would be feeling towards American ones in their captivity, ooof!


I doubt these were volunteers, more like US/UK special forces disguised as volunteers.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537062367611199489

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537114139247640577
Urgent | The Kremlin: *The Russian President and his Chinese counterpart discuss strengthening military and technical relations between the two countries*
@AlainBRK

Urgent | The Kremlin: *The Chinese President assured Putin the legitimacy of the measures taken by Russia to protect its interests in the face of external challenges*
@AJABreaking

Putin: *I agreed with the Chinese president to expand cooperation in energy, finance and industry due to Western sanctions*
@AsharqNewsBrk


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537062367611199489
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537114139247640577
> Urgent | The Kremlin: The Russian President and his Chinese counterpart discuss strengthening military and technical relations between the two countries
> @AlainBRK
> 
> Urgent | The Kremlin: The Chinese President assured Putin the legitimacy of the measures taken by Russia to protect its interests in the face of external challenges
> @AJABreaking
> 
> Putin: I agreed with the Chinese president to expand cooperation in energy, finance and industry due to Western sanctions
> @AsharqNewsBrk



Russia needs large combat drones such as Wing Loong 2 which have proven devastating in Libya war. These can be based in Russia or Donbas and piloted by Chinese pilots.


----------



## The SC

Chinese President: *Despite global changes, Sino-Russian relations have maintained a good momentum of development*
@AsharqNewsBrk


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537042759978205185

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537041437593939968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537071465530544129


----------



## K_Bin_W

Dalit said:


> The Ukrainians are pleading for more heavier weapons. Are you going to deliver?


Nope..

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537062158294450177

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537062661162250241

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537064784717389825

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536991028393259008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536985838072086528

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

ckf said:


> That's funny, who's going to trust EU, UK and US after Russia state and individual asset confiscation, frozen foreign reserves and Swift ban. Apparently western civilization now based on the rule of thievery rather than commercial property rights/rule of law.


You ask who? Nah rich Russians of course. 15,000 rich Russians leave the country as per British guardian. The frozen assets belong to friends of Putin, Lavrov and other warmongers not common Russians. The sanctions are certainly backed by international laws.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536807296361177089

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

925boy said:


> War isnt cheap, period but go on.
> 
> what is "huge sum"?? Afterall Russia has local economies of scale from domestic production and equipment maufacturing, so its costs will always be loser than US for eg.
> 
> Even after Ukraine has lost over 20% of their country FOREVER? u have simple understanding of the word "cost"
> 
> So you just buy what westerners say as if u cant think for yourself? please provide proof, because RUssia is far from bankrupt, and the war is going on months now, so someone is lying, and ur involved with their propaganda now.
> 
> based on whaat? what Westerners "estimate" AGAIIN? but its obv cost US as much ,because Biden is in US telling Americans Putin caused inflation, for a war US indirectly provoked. lmao.
> 
> Russia or Ukraine? Cuz one of those 2 countries WILL NEVER BE THE SAME AGAIN. which one do u think that is?


All snapshots of time all bla bla nothing else. This war has a clear winner: the US. The loser list is long. Europe, Asia, Africa, Latin America, and others. We are all losers.
But the biggest loser is Russia. It is weakened, isolated, marginalized further. Putin makes Russia to a chinese slave. That’s it.

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## Apollon

Corax said:


> Not true. Most of the dead Russians are from the "Caucasian" Western part.
> 
> See this website resource if you can stomach it, lots of dead "master race" on show here...
> 
> https://russoldat.info/category/poteri-rf/tela/
> 
> You do realise modern Greeks are the product of invading armies from Persia, the Middle East and North Africa? Most of your genetic make up is from Asia.



No, you talk bullshit since never in history did populations mix large scale.

Take persians for example, they were walking through Greece for period of 3 years and then got erased and killed, including their women and children.


Modern Greeks are same as old Greeks, as can be seen on genetic make up.





__





Science | AAAS







www.science.org














Genetic origins of Minoans and Mycenaeans and their continuity into modern Greeks | Indo-European.eu


A new article has appeared in Nature, Genetic origins of the Minoans and Mycenaeans, by Lazaridis et al. (2017), referenced by Science. Abstract: The origins of the Bronze Age Minoan and Mycenaean cultures have puzzled archaeologists for more than a century. We have assembled genome-wide data...




indo-european.eu





No difference in genetic make up detectable since Minoan and Mycanean times.


Its same with turks, there never was a mix. Greeks lived as greeks, married Greeks and stayed Greeks. There were Greeks who turmed to islam and were counted as turks so much, that today 80% of turks are simply islamized Greeks. At our war of independence all turls on greek lands got hunted out or killed, including children who were used for target practice. I dont judge this events, its just what happened.


Since i busted your bullshit on this, lets move up your next rubbish, russians...i can spot a russian one mile afar. They look different to us. The dead meat on your pics shows nowhere any westeen european type.



zzzz said:


> 30.000 killed means 100.000 wounded, that means entire 150.000 group of Russian troops in Ukraine is eliminated in your delusional mind, but in reality it just continue succeful massacre of 700.000 strong Ukrainian army.
> 
> "We cooked" hahaha You are just a low iq cowardly troll from basement suffereing from enourmous buthurt. Prepare for harsh winter, blackouts, food shortages and disintegration of your shitty Fourth Reich (EU). It failed miserably



Evry dead one counts. What matters is to kill russian soldiers faster than their women can squeeze new ones out.


As for rest of your bullshit, no basement. Coldest temperature last winter here was a warm 15C. We had left even the cactus outside. 

Food shortages? We are richest continent under the sun. You think we run out of Mango, Steaks and Hailbutt? 


EU is more united than ever. 



I kmow where your bullshit comes from, i read Ria Novosti and have a good laugh at russian propaganda.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> The Ukrainians are pleading for more heavier weapons. Are you going to deliver?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537245340696387585

The US has overdelivered per official Ukrainian requests.


----------



## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537245340696387585
> 
> The US has overdelivered per official Ukrainian requests.


That was the old request. There is a new request by Ukraine general staff. The Russians turn this war into an artillery war thus Ukraine will do the same.





__





Ukraine needs 1,000 howitzers, 500 tanks and more to end the war – Podolyak






www.ukrinform.net

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## DF41

zzzz said:


> I see you are delusioning in different threads simultaneously. During past month Ukrainian army lost more than 2 000 soldiers in attacks near Kherson failing to take any single settlement. Russia controls 95% of Kherson Oblast.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537236000224604160

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## Apollon

zzzz said:


> 30.000 killed means 100.000 wounded, that means entire 150.000 group of Russian troops in Ukraine is eliminated in your delusional mind, but in reality it just continue succeful massacre of 700.000 strong Ukrainian army.
> 
> "We cooked" hahaha You are just a low iq cowardly troll from basement suffereing from enourmous buthurt. Prepare for harsh winter, blackouts, food shortages and disintegration of your shitty Fourth Reich (EU). It failed miserably



Btw talking about shitty and miserable. The EU made Europe more wealthy than ever before in history. Even the poorest regions like Romania now have a living standard that surpasses evrything in Russia.

Russia.. with an economy smaller than Italy. Russia...where 70% of population has no toilet in the house. Russia with a life expectancy lower than north korea. Russia...with highest child mortality outside africa.


Amigo in Russia is poverty on a level unknown anywhere in EU. I know Irkutsk, was there at sport competition 2019. Looks horrible there. In same russia, where pensioners have to catch pigeons on the street to eat them...live corrupted mafia thugs like Putin who own 600 million € yachts.



But want to know biggest symbol why EU rules and russia is a failed state? All your leaderships children live in Europe. Putins daughters in Germany. Lawrow daughter in London and Austria. Peskovs daughter in Italy. They all live here.



Your own leadership prefers us over your Nigeria with snow. That is a powerful indication that your country indeed is a failed concept.

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## DF41

Hack-Hook said:


> Honestly, seriously
> 
> Russia need to made a competition to write some poem to use in such occasion beside this one




Also must be something I like







And I love that song in all different variations.
And the way Russia using those wonderful katysushas













.

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## ckf

Apollon said:


> Btw talking about shitty and miserable. The EU made Europe more wealthy than ever before in history. Even the poorest regions like Romania now have a living standard that surpasses evrything in Russia.
> 
> Russia.. with an economy smaller than Italy. Russia...where 70% of population has no toilet in the house. Russia with a life expectancy lower than north korea. Russia...with highest child mortality outside africa.
> 
> 
> Amigo in Russia is poverty on a level unknown anywhere in EU. I know Irkutsk, was there at sport competition 2019. Looks horrible there. In same russia, where pensioners have to catch pigeons on the street to eat them...live corrupted mafia thugs like Putin who own 600 million € yachts.
> 
> 
> 
> But want to know biggest symbol why EU rules and russia is a failed state? All your leaderships children live in Europe. Putins daughters in Germany. Lawrow daughter in London and Austria. Peskovs daughter in Italy. They all live here.
> 
> 
> 
> Your own leadership prefers us over your Nigeria with snow. That is a powerful indication that your country indeed is a failed concept.


EU is an occupied colony in reality. Papa US has bases all over EU member states under NATO. EU can't even fart without asking for US permission. I wouldn't be too proud of your self made construct of wealth when in reality EU citizens are nothing but slaves to American colonial commercial interest.

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## DF41

Tai Hai Chen said:


> If America invades Russia then China invades Taiwan in response. America can kiss Taiwan good bye forever.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537086294966562816

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## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537236773080006656



Why for some reasons above reminded me of USA NATO Nuland Geriatic Joe in Ukraine?

For that matter, of the antics of USA & Geriatic Joe all over the world and not just Ukraine

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537054426623528960

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## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537054426623528960


Xi Jingping said that because he knows he can end the war tomorrow if he wants it. If China stops buying, freezing Russia assets then Putin is naked. Lavrov the liar will knee his way from Moscow to Beijing.


----------



## Hack-Hook

DF41 said:


> Also must be something I like
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I love that song in all different variations.
> And the way Russia using those wonderful katysushas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


already seen that , honestly their panzer tactics sucks , their formation sucks , and their tanks even sucks more .


----------



## Corax

Apollon said:


> No, you talk bullshit since never in history did populations mix large scale.
> 
> Take persians for example, they were walking through Greece for period of 3 years and then got erased and killed, including their women and children.
> 
> 
> Modern Greeks are same as old Greeks, as can be seen on genetic make up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Science | AAAS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.science.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Genetic origins of Minoans and Mycenaeans and their continuity into modern Greeks | Indo-European.eu
> 
> 
> A new article has appeared in Nature, Genetic origins of the Minoans and Mycenaeans, by Lazaridis et al. (2017), referenced by Science. Abstract: The origins of the Bronze Age Minoan and Mycenaean cultures have puzzled archaeologists for more than a century. We have assembled genome-wide data...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> indo-european.eu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No difference in genetic make up detectable since Minoan and Mycanean times.
> 
> 
> Its same with turks, there never was a mix. Greeks lived as greeks, married Greeks and stayed Greeks. There were Greeks who turmed to islam and were counted as turks so much, that today 80% of turks are simply islamized Greeks. At our war of independence all turls on greek lands got hunted out or killed, including children who were used for target practice. I dont judge this events, its just what happened.
> 
> 
> Since i busted your bullshit on this, lets move up your next rubbish, russians...i can spot a russian one mile afar. They look different to us. The dead meat on your pics shows nowhere any westeen european type.
> 
> 
> 
> Evry dead one counts. What matters is to kill russian soldiers faster than their women can squeeze new ones out.
> 
> 
> As for rest of your bullshit, no basement. Coldest temperature last winter here was a warm 15C. We had left even the cactus outside.
> 
> Food shortages? We are richest continent under the sun. You think we run out of Mango, Steaks and Hailbutt?
> 
> 
> EU is more united than ever.
> 
> 
> 
> I kmow where your bullshit comes from, i read Ria Novosti and have a good laugh at russian propaganda.



You clearly don't know how genetics or evolution works. Where did the Myceneans and Minoans come from? Magically sprouted out from the earth like a Greek myth?

The ancient Mycenaeans and Minoans were most closely related to each other, and they both got three-quarters of their DNA from early farmers who lived in Greece and southwestern Anatolia, which is now part of Turkey, the team reports today in Nature. Both cultures additionally inherited DNA from people from the eastern Caucasus, near modern-day Iran, suggesting an early migration of people from the east after the early farmers settled there but before Mycenaeans split from Minoans

Greeks are essentially Asians who migrated westward and settled.

And 80% of Turks are Greek?! WTF...I think you've got that the wrong way round... Given that the Mycenaeans and Minoans came from Eastern Asia.

So none of the dead russian soldiers are from the Caucasian western part of Russia?! Ok dude...clearly you're smoking something strong. Believe whatever bullshit "race theory" you want to believe. Look in the mirror ..you're a dark haired dark eyes mongrel product of eastern people ;-)

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536807296361177089


Wow….this propaganda is a slap in the face of more then million of afghani that died under the soviet invasion. Close to 10% of its population. 

Have you no shame? 

This is worse then even the cringiest of american propaganda.
“We do it for the afghani children!” 🤮

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## Soldier35

The Russian Navy will abandon an additional series of six Project 22160 patrol ships. The series of Project 22160 corvettes will not be continued and will end with the delivery of the last ship of the series to the Black Sea Fleet. The official version, inconsistencies in their tactical and technical qualities of combat operating conditions. In particular, the military is not satisfied with the seaworthiness and armoring of ships, as well as the vulnerability of their power plants and weak anti-aircraft weapons. Most likely, the key role in the decision to abandon was played by the fact that the ships have almost no air defense, it is represented by manual MANPADS, why the ships went into series this way is not clear. Recently, the Black Sea Fleet of Russia was forced to install Tor-M2KM land-based air defense systems on ships of project 22160 to strengthen the ship's air defense. Additional air defense systems were installed at the stern of the ships of the Russian fleet "Vasily Bykov", and then "Pavel Derzhavin".






The Russian Defense Ministry has published footage of a combat sortie of a pair of Su-25 attack aircraft in Ukraine. The pilots attacked strongholds of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The video shows mainly the view of the flight from the cockpit






The work of the Mi-8MTPR-1 electronic warfare helicopter equipped with the Rychag-AV active jamming station in Ukraine was shown by the Russian Ministry of Defense. The Rychag-AV jamming station completely “blinds” the enemy within a radius of several hundred kilometers. The Rychag system is equipped with a database that stores information about the military equipment of many armies of the world. The station selects the most effective interference for each target and can provide electronic suppression of several targets at once. In conditions of interference, the enemy's air defense systems, as well as his aircraft, are deprived of the ability to detect targets and direct missiles at them. The radiation power of the station is very high, so the cockpit is protected from it by a special grid. The cost of the Russian Mi-8MTPR-1 helicopter is about 600 million rubles. The exact data of the Lever-AV system are classified.

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## ZeGerman

DF41 said:


> Your opinion matters to me as much as the opinion of Geriatic Joe
> 
> And enough of you and your rot.
> 
> And take a guess where you be heading
> 
> 
> I think I rather go enjoy my coffee and smell roses
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and smell roses


Isnt there a forum rule against spam? Especially spamming the same gifs over and over?

Its just a waste of server-space/energy and pollutes the thread.


----------



## oberschlesier

925boy said:


> Does Poland need a national therapist for the ANXIETY the Ukraine war has caused it? You guys need to be very careful - NATO wont save you, and you will end up disadvantaged in the end if you make a stupid move. Screenshot this if you're feeling some type of way.


"ANXIETY", "Save us" ? From what ? Russia ? Don`t be silly, they did not even have the Power to take Kyiv.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## kingQamaR

oberschlesier said:


> "ANXIETY", "Save us" ? From what ? Russia ? Don`t be silly, they did not even have the Power to take Kyiv.



Although there is some room for speculation about the actual effectiveness of their large polish but cash-starved military, I feel it would be unwise to write off Russia just yet

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537334058111451136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537371858814779393

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537394775967531009

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537281015521193984

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537398917440077825


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537430693390692352

Reactions: Like Like:
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## wahhab0202

jhungary said:


> Actually, they lose more in Kherson than they gain in Sieverodonetsk. It's estimated 70% of Sieverodonetsk is in russian Hand, but Ukrainian took back around 40% of the entire Kherson Oblast, Russia now own around 60% of the entire Oblast and Ukrainian position is within 15 km from City Centre. It used to be 100%....So in effect, they took 70% of a city, but losing 40% of an entire Oblast...
> 
> Also, it would not be hard to deduce the reason the Russian progress slowly is because they ran out of Precision munition, otherwise they could probably advance more as you have more precise CAS supporting your movement.


What's with Kherson? I thought it lost to Russian Armed Forces already? I won't be surprise if Russia will press further into Mykolaiv or even Odessa in the coming months given they completely conquer Severodonetsk.

But my point is too many reckless prediction on Russian's capability to carry on this war from Ukraine's side or their allies. Something that may be impair their judgement to the real military capability of Russia.

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## jhungary

wahhab0202 said:


> What's with Kherson? I thought it lost to Russian Armed Forces already? I won't be surprise if Russia will press further into Mykolaiv or even Odessa in the coming months given they completely conquer Severodonetsk.


Doubt it, Ukraine launch a major counter offensive and pushed Russian force from both North West of Kherson and South West of Zaporizhzhia. It pushes Russian at least 30km into Kherson and is now putting Kherson City within Ukrainian Artillery Range.

It would take weeks to finish Sieverodonetsk, and they would have to take Lysychansk and Behmuts if they want to complete taking over Luchansk, then the Russian need to take Sloviansk and Kramatosk before they can complete the entire Donbas. THey would be stopped in Sieversky Donets River if they disengage after just taking Sieverodonetsk.

It would be months away, if not years, before Russia can focus on Mykolaiv. If they have the capability to do so at all.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Paul2

Viet said:


> Xi Jingping said that because he knows he can end the war tomorrow if he wants it. If China stops buying, freezing Russia assets then Putin is naked. Lavrov the liar will knee his way from Moscow to Beijing.



Xi will not do so until Kremlin comes begginng on its knees.

Zhongnanhai people are too afraid of Russians, though I know they don't hold much respect for Pujin aside from Xi himself.

For them, he is an usurper on the CPSU throne, rather than a CPSU restorer


----------



## Muhammed45

Before the war, these were the main headlines of MSM






But right after Russian operation against the corrupt regime of Kiev, Ukraine turned into a Clean angel.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537442468563587072


----------



## zzzz

jhungary said:


> Doubt it, Ukraine launch a major counter offensive and pushed Russian force from both North West of Kherson and South West of Zaporizhzhia. It pushes Russian at least 30km into Kherson and is now putting Kherson City within Ukrainian Artillery Range.



Ukraine lost up to several thousands of troops in recent attacks toward Kherson and Zaporozhie and failed to capture any single settlement or any single square km of territory. How long are you going to continue your delusions in this thread?

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## F-22Raptor

zzzz said:


> Ukraine lost up to several thousands of troops in recent attacks toward Kherson and Zaporozhie and failed to capture any single settlement or any single square km of territory. How long are you going to continue your delusions in this thread?



Ukraine has regained just as much territory as Russia has gained since the end of April. 

Russia has lost 30% of its armored force and expended 70% of its PGMs in less than 4 months. The Russian Air Force performance has been atrocious. Russian military performance has been humiliating.

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## Apollon

Corax said:


> You clearly don't know how genetics or evolution works. Where did the Myceneans and Minoans come from? Magically sprouted out from the earth like a Greek myth?
> 
> The ancient Mycenaeans and Minoans were most closely related to each other, and they both got three-quarters of their DNA from early farmers who lived in Greece and southwestern Anatolia, which is now part of Turkey, the team reports today in Nature. Both cultures additionally inherited DNA from people from the eastern Caucasus, near modern-day Iran, suggesting an early migration of people from the east after the early farmers settled there but before Mycenaeans split from Minoans
> 
> Greeks are essentially Asians who migrated westward and settled.
> 
> And 80% of Turks are Greek?! WTF...I think you've got that the wrong way round... Given that the Mycenaeans and Minoans came from Eastern Asia.
> 
> So none of the dead russian soldiers are from the Caucasian western part of Russia?! Ok dude...clearly you're smoking something strong. Believe whatever bullshit "race theory" you want to believe. Look in the mirror ..you're a dark haired dark eyes mongrel product of eastern people ;-)



You obviously dont know history because all european are originally from iran area and walked here 50.000 years ago. Thats why its called indoeuropean.



zzzz said:


> Ukraine lost up to several thousands of troops in recent attacks toward Kherson and Zaporozhie and failed to capture any single settlement or any single square km of territory. How long are you going to continue your delusions in this thread?



Why do all your elites children live in Europe and USA? But no western elites children want live in Russia. Whats reason for that? Putins daughters live in Germany...


----------



## zzzz

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraine has regained just as much territory as Russia has gained since the end of April.
> 
> Russia has lost 30% of its armored force and expended 70% of its PGMs in less than 4 months. The Russian Air Force performance has been atrocious. Russian military performance has been humiliating.



You mean territory near Kiev that Russia is not planning to take? That means following your logic that Russia taking only half of Ukraine would be considered big win by Ukraine? 

Russia with just 150k troops (15% of its army) with minimal losses succefully massacring 700 000 strong Ukrainian army supplied by whole NATO. What is surprised the whole world is humiliating performance of American weapons, NATO and rapid collapse of Western economies. Everyone sees now that US and NATO is just a pathetic paper tiger  Russia is going to continue humiliate NATO and US in Ukraine

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## F-22Raptor

zzzz said:


> You mean territory near Kiev that Russia is not planning to take? That means following your logic that Russia taking only half of Ukraine would be considered big win by Ukraine?
> 
> Russia with just 150k troops (15% of its army) with minimal losses succefully massacring 700 000 strong Ukrainian army supplied by whole NATO. What is surprised the whole world is humiliating performance of American weapons, NATO and rapid collapse of Western economies. Everyone sees now that US and NATO is just a pathetic paper tiger  Russia is going to continue humiliate NATO and US in Ukraine




Russia deployed 75% of its BTGs, got humiliated at Kyiv, and humiliated at Kharkiv. And yes, Russia was absolutely planning to take Kyiv. 

Russian military performance has been atrocious.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## wahhab0202

Uuupppss... better look for substitution real quick, Winter is coming. How is the progress with Qatar's gas purchase? As far as I know gas supply is not an overnight business, it take time and careful planning to deliver. May be US with their shale gas could help?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537416107790835712


----------



## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia deployed 75% of its BTGs, got humiliated at Kyiv, and humiliated at Kharkiv. And yes, Russia was absolutely planning to take Kyiv.
> 
> Russian military performance has been atrocious.


lol, you are wasting your time talking to that dude. 

Everyday Ukraine is a country is a giant middle finger in the face of Putin. in fact, everyday Zelenskyy is out and about and getting attention, people who called him clown is more clown Zelenskyy would ever be. 

And we are talking about a war between Ukraine and Russia, I mean if Russia can't even handle Ukraine with NATO hand me down weapon, the guy is talking about shirt fronting the big man himself. That's delusional at its best...


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537442613833281539

The UK to deliver more than 20 M109 self propelled howitzers to Ukraine.


----------



## jhungary

wahhab0202 said:


> Uuupppss... better look for substitution real quick, Winter is coming. How is the progress with Qatar's gas purchase? As far as I know gas supply is not an overnight business, it take time and careful planning to deliver. May be US with their shale gas could help?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537416107790835712


Winter is here in Australia, still 5 months away from Europe. 

Most Europe have enough reserve to last this winter and by 2023, new pipeline to Middle East and US would have been completed. Then good luck for Russia asking China and India buying the same amount of gas Europe is buying with the price they were paying.


----------



## Primus

jhungary said:


> Winter is here in Australia, still 5 months away from Europe.


AYO WTF?


----------



## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> lol, you are wasting your time talking to that dude.
> 
> Everyday Ukraine is a country is a giant middle finger in the face of Putin. in fact, everyday Zelenskyy is out and about and getting attention, people who called him clown is more clown Zelenskyy would ever be.
> 
> And we are talking about a war between Ukraine and Russia, I mean if Russia can't even handle Ukraine with NATO hand me down weapon, the guy is talking about shirt fronting the big man himself. That's delusional at its best...



Russia has temporary control of maybe 20% of Ukraine at the cost of 30% of its armored force, 70% of its PGMS, 80K-100K in KIAs and WIAs in less than 4 months. The Russian Air Force performance has been absolute dog s**t, and the Russian Navy managed to lose a flagship against a country with almost no naval capability. 

The US military of the first Gulf War would wreck this Russian military, much less the US military of today.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

wahhab0202 said:


> Uuupppss... better look for substitution real quick, Winter is coming. How is the progress with Qatar's gas purchase? As far as I know gas supply is not an overnight business, it take time and careful planning to deliver. May be US with their shale gas could help?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537416107790835712



It will be shut down anyways or do you believe Europe will continue any trade with Russia?


----------



## jhungary

Huffal said:


> AYO WTF?


??


----------



## Apollon

zzzz said:


> You mean territory near Kiev that Russia is not planning to take? That means following your logic that Russia taking only half of Ukraine would be considered big win by Ukraine?
> 
> Russia with just 150k troops (15% of its army) with minimal losses succefully massacring 700 000 strong Ukrainian army supplied by whole NATO. What is surprised the whole world is humiliating performance of American weapons, NATO and rapid collapse of Western economies. Everyone sees now that US and NATO is just a pathetic paper tiger  Russia is going to continue humiliate NATO and US in Ukraine



I ask again, why do all your elites childrens live here? 


Humilate us? Ukraine was 100% under russian controle. Now 80% are free. Maybe we get the rest too. All the while we kill russians without any consequences.


----------



## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia has temporary control of maybe 20% of Ukraine at the cost of 30% of its armored force, 70% of its PGMS, 80K-100K in KIAs and WIAs in less than 4 months. The Russian Air Force performance has been absolute dog s**t, and the Russian Navy managed to lose a flagship against a country with almost no naval capability.
> 
> The US military of the first Gulf War would wreck this Russian military, much less the US military of today.


Well, Ukrainian with Gulf War Stuff can wreck this Russian Military, you don't need the US military then....

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## Dalit

China will support Russia on security, Xi tells Putin in birthday call | CNN


Chinese leader Xi Jinping reiterated his support for Moscow on "sovereignty and security" matters in a call with counterpart Vladimir Putin on Wednesday, upholding his backing for the countries' partnership despite the global backlash against Russia's invasion of Ukraine.




edition.cnn.com





Awesome.

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## kingQamaR

What ever happened to the feared Russian T2 tank in Ukraine 

Nicknamed the “ Terminator “


----------



## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> Well, Ukrainian with Gulf War Stuff can wreck this Russian Military, you don't need the US military then....




The US has only delivered $5.5B in military aid to Ukraine to date. Most of that being antitank, short range anti air, less than 1,000 drones, and a little over 100 towed howitzers.

Meanwhile, Russia has lost a third of its armored force in less than 4 months. Thats a huge amount in that short a time span.

This is an obvious victory for the US.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Primus

jhungary said:


> ??


How is it winter already, down under? Tf?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537463739678658562

Reactions: Like Like:
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## SalarHaqq

Hack-Hook said:


> Russia need to made a competition to write some poem to use in such occasion beside this one





DF41 said:


> Also must be something I like
> 
> 
> 
> And I love that song in all different variations.
> And the way Russia using those wonderful katysushas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Russia has a wealth of patriotic and war-themed hymns, anthems and other musical pieces already. An example among many, _The Sacred War_, which fits well with the present occasion since it's local stooges of NATO fascists which the Russian Federation is currently hammering in Ukraine:






_____



ckf said:


> Apparently western civilization now based on the rule of thievery rather than commercial property rights/rule of law.



Not just now. Making a mockery of self-proclaimed rule of the law, including through thievery, racket and extortion has long been a systemic feature of policy making by imperialist western powers.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537470043650461697
Another battery of Caesar howitzers to be sent

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## jhungary

Huffal said:


> How is it winter already, down under? Tf?


Australia is already in winter, we just had 3 night under -1 degree here in Sydney. Winter start June 1 here. Where you people in the north start at November 21 officially.


----------



## Apollon

Dalit said:


> China will support Russia on security, Xi tells Putin in birthday call | CNN
> 
> 
> Chinese leader Xi Jinping reiterated his support for Moscow on "sovereignty and security" matters in a call with counterpart Vladimir Putin on Wednesday, upholding his backing for the countries' partnership despite the global backlash against Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edition.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Awesome.



More hot air. At same time Winnie Pooh banned russian airplanes from chinese airspace, blocks all financial support and stopped delivery of mobiletechnology.


----------



## Primus

jhungary said:


> Australia is already in winter, we just had 3 night under -1 degree here in Sydney. Winter start June 1 here. Where you people in the north start at November 21 officially.


Trippy


----------



## Apollon

SalarHaqq said:


> Russia has a wealth of patriotic and war-themed hymns, anthems and other musical pieces already. An example among many, _The Sacred War_, which fits well with the present occasion since it's local stooges of NATO fascists which the Russian Federation is currently hammering in Ukraine:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _____
> 
> 
> 
> Not just now. Making a mockery of self-proclaimed rule of the law, including through thievery, racket and extortion has long been a systemic feature of policy making by imperialist western powers.



Can this iranian "top leader" wink with both hands?


----------



## RoadAmerica

Tai Hai Chen said:


> @Apollon is not master race. He's just a southern European who is a German wannabe.
> 
> 
> 
> 1 billion is too little. Needs to be 1 trillion to last a few months. HIMARS ammo costs like 10,000 each.


1 trillion 🤣 
Didn’t we discuss what realistic bud gears look like a few hundred pages back?


----------



## jhungary

Huffal said:


> Trippy


Well, you kind of got used to it after being here for a few year, you go skiing in the mountain in July here. And spending Christmas over 40C on the beach.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537471895674798083

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537474729019318272

First HIMARs unit to be deployed next week.

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## Viet

Paul2 said:


> Xi will not do so until Kremlin comes begginng on its knees.
> 
> Zhongnanhai people are too afraid of Russians, though I know they don't hold much respect for Pujin aside from Xi himself.
> 
> For them, he is an usurper on the CPSU throne, rather than a CPSU restorer


For the chinese the war is a lose win win situation. They lose because Putin kills the silkroad. Win win because Russia is weakened the West is weakened. If two tigers fight to the death then the panda is laughing from the sideline.


----------



## Trango Towers

Russia is NOT all out against Ukraine.

Any country attacking another would in the start phase of war would.

1. Knock out the entire power grid
2. Knock out railway main bridges and road network
3. Water and sanitation 
4. Constantly attack anything entering the country.

Why has Russia not done the above being so evil?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537382485352452103

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537410280451461120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537476405918932993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537476845167337473

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537450462395437058

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537455728000376832

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Primus

jhungary said:


> Well, you kind of got used to it after being here for a few year, you go skiing in the mountain in July here. And spending Christmas over 40C on the beach.


😐


----------



## MeFishToo

Trango Towers said:


> Russia is NOT all out against Ukraine.
> 
> Any country attacking another would in the start phase of war would.
> 
> 1. Knock out the entire power grid
> 2. Knock out railway main bridges and road network
> 3. Water and sanitation
> 4. Constantly attack anything entering the country.
> 
> Why has Russia not done the above being so evil?


Because they couldnt. They tried, but failed.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537418791675625472


----------



## Apollon

Trango Towers said:


> Russia is NOT all out against Ukraine.
> 
> Any country attacking another would in the start phase of war would.
> 
> 1. Knock out the entire power grid
> 2. Knock out railway main bridges and road network
> 3. Water and sanitation
> 4. Constantly attack anything entering the country.
> 
> Why has Russia not done the above being so evil?



Because Russia is a shithole country with a laughable military. Its that simple. There is no higher goals behind it. Russia uses full barbaric brutality in all areas it reaches. Evrything else is simply outside their reach.


----------



## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537474729019318272
> 
> First HIMARs unit to be deployed next week.


That number intrigue me..

HIMARS have a crew of 3. Even if we are talking about you also train a team or 2 of mechanic to service that, you are still talking about 40 + crew. Which mean this is for 10 or more set not 7 we said we are giving them......


----------



## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> That number intrigue me..
> 
> HIMARS have a crew of 3. Even if we are talking about you also train a team or 2 of mechanic to service that, you are still talking about 40 + crew. Which mean this is for 10 or more set not 7 we said we are giving them......



I believe they’ll get at least another dozen HIMARS soon.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> I believe they’ll get at least another dozen HIMARS soon.



A dozen HIMARS don't last long. These have range 34 km with basic rocket, same as Uragan. They might last a few weeks tops, if that. Attack jets and attack choppers hunt down artillery.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537476845167337473

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537450462395437058


----------



## Trango Towers

Apollon said:


> Because Russia is a shithole country with a laughable military. Its that simple. There is no higher goals behind it. Russia uses full barbaric brutality in all areas it reaches. Evrything else is simply outside their reach.


Trust a Greek to f up the subject. They may be all the things you say but your Ukraine is winning only on tictok. Reality is Russia is taking ground daily and there is jack u can do other than scream.
We have seen western forces in Iraq Afghanistan Libya Syria all very careful. NoT

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537482283699032065

Reactions: Love Love:
1


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## Apollon

Trango Towers said:


> Trust a Greek to f up the subject. They may be all the things you say but your Ukraine is winning only on tictok. Reality is Russia is taking ground daily and there is jack u can do other than scream.
> We have seen western forces in Iraq Afghanistan Libya Syria all very careful. NoT


im not Greek, im european. 


Ukraine winning only on tiktok? Ukraine was a 100% russian colony. Now it got russian free in 80%.. i call this impressive. And that 80% got today the EU membership support from Germany. Russia lost east, north and south west Ukraine akready, at same time has massive losses on soldiers. We can live with that.


Its what we do amigo, simply be a catalyst to make russians fertilizer in Ukraine. At moment not much else is needed.


----------



## Viet

Trango Towers said:


> Russia is NOT all out against Ukraine.
> 
> Any country attacking another would in the start phase of war would.
> 
> 1. Knock out the entire power grid
> 2. Knock out railway main bridges and road network
> 3. Water and sanitation
> 4. Constantly attack anything entering the country.
> 
> Why has Russia not done the above being so evil?


Very easy to understand. Putin is hunting Nazi. If he destroys the power grid everything goes dark. How can he find any Nazi in darkness?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Trango Towers

Apollon said:


> im not Greek, im european.
> 
> 
> Ukraine winning only on tiktok? Ukraine was a 100% russian colony. Now it got russian free in 80%.. i call this impressive. And that 80% got today the EU membership support from Germany. Russia lost east, north and south west Ukraine akready, at same time has massive losses on soldiers. We can live with that.
> 
> 
> Its what we do amigo, simply be a catalyst to make russians fertilizer in Ukraine. At moment not much else is needed.


Greece isn't in Europe? How stupid 
Russia gave ukraine independence. Are you being a typical white trash liar and want to re write history? Fact are facts.
If Russia has lost east west and south why are Russian forces in Ukraine and not been push back to Russia.. are u even out of school
It's what we do. Loool. OK have a nice day. Arguing with a fool is not even entertaining anymore. Especially a Greek plate smasher

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Congrats to Ukraine
EU membership is a reality. Almost.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537454132637880320


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537499853340614656


----------



## jhungary

Trango Towers said:


> Russia is NOT all out against Ukraine.
> 
> Any country attacking another would in the start phase of war would.
> 
> 1. Knock out the entire power grid
> 2. Knock out railway main bridges and road network
> 3. Water and sanitation
> 4. Constantly attack anything entering the country.
> 
> Why has Russia not done the above being so evil?



1. How and Why? How first, how do you knock out the entire Powergrid in Ukraine? In the old days, when we do it, we bomb the powerplant, it's a no go as Ukraine heavily rely on Nuclear Power. So the only thing you can do to take out the powergrid of THE ENTIRE COUNTRY is to taking out all the substation. You are talking about thousand if not tens of thousand of Substation. Are you going to knock all of them down? And then what if they repair some of them? 

Are you going to knock them down with Missile or Air Strike? First of all, you need 2 or 3 missile per target to make sure they are destroyed. Or you fly deep into Ukraine and destroy them with your aircraft. Russia won't have enough missile to take them all out and flying aircraft only work in the East because if you go deep into target in Western Ukraine, you are flying over the entire length of a hostile facing mobile and static SAM and Air Opposition, in short, you are going to lose a lot of aircraft. 

On the other hand, why? We are not in the 60s, let's say even if you can take out the entire grid, that probably will hinder Ukrainian industrial capability (which would alternatively be destroy if you target those instead) so are you saying Ukraine cannot fight at night without power??

2.) Again, how? That was a aerial intense task, let's pretend point 1 did not happen, you did not "waste" thousand of missile on their substation, how are you going to attack railway bridge and every road junction? First of all, it is not possible to do so with cruise missile, CEP is not enough and warhead is too small to make a different, which mean you are going to be looking at dropping a few snake on target if you want to destroy railway bridge or road junction. Then the same thing applies with point 1. You may be remotely able to do it in the East, but flying across the entire length of hostile country with Peer SAM system, sure, they don't have S-400. but S-300 would be more than a match for the Su-34 and Su-25 for that job. Even Stinger is enough to bring down (and they indeed brought down a few) those SUs. 

On the other hand, Russia is a Armor heavy force, destroying the road would work against them because it will also slow their own advance. 

3.) What does that do to Military? First of all, there aren't much to attack, you can't go after dams in Nova Karkova because it will flood Crimea, Ukraine don't depend on desalination plant. Which mean they can get water in numerous source, from rain water to truck them from Poland. This is more gear toward sapping Civilian morale than inhibiting Ukrainian warfighting capability, and that is assume you can do it anyway, the same things applies, you need to be able to reach that.

4.) How? What you can use to reach 500km inland from Belarus in Polish Border? You want to bomb them or you want to send missile? Cruise or Ballistic missile is for hard target, no one on this earth have that advance technology to target soft and moving target with Cruise missile. You want to fancy a long range ground strike day after day deep into Western Ukraine?? 

It's not about why they didn't do it, but whether or not they "can" do it.


----------



## Soldier35

The Ukrainian army continues to use limited aircraft in some places. A video of an operational airfield of the Ukrainian army created in the field in the area between Ivanovka and Ryasnopol in the Odessa region has appeared. It is possible that the spontaneous airfield has already disappeared, since Russian intelligence is working quickly. In the video, you can see three Ukrainian Mi-8 helicopters and one Mi-2 helicopter. The video also shows the combat operation of the Mi-8 helicopter of Ukraine, the pilots attack from afar, in the nose-up mode, just like Russian pilots do in Ukraine.







A new batch of Western weapons has arrived in Ukraine, a trainload of British Warrior MCV-80 armored personnel carriers has been spotted. Serial production of the BMP Warrior MCV-80 began in 1985. The armored vehicle is equipped with a 30 mm L21A1 automatic cannon, with which a 7.62 mm machine gun is paired. The Warrior BMP has a significant drawback - the lack of stabilization of the 30-mm cannon, because of this, it is advisable to fire while stopped. Despite this, Warrior in terms of reliability and survivability has proven itself well in the war in Iraq. Some versions of the armored personnel carrier were equipped with Chobham armor; there is a known case when such armor withstood 12 RPG hits in Iraq, but these versions were not delivered to Ukraine. Now the Warrior MCV-80 is in service with Britain and Kuwait, but is gradually being replaced by the German BMP Boxer. The speed on the highway BTR Warrior 75 km / h, cruising range 500 km. The crew of the BMP is 3 people, the number of soldiers transported is 7.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

Trango Towers said:


> Greece isn't in Europe? How stupid
> Russia gave ukraine independence. Are you being a typical white trash liar and want to re write history? Fact are facts.
> If Russia has lost east west and south why are Russian forces in Ukraine and not been push back to Russia.. are u even out of school
> It's what we do. Loool. OK have a nice day. Arguing with a fool is not even entertaining anymore. Especially a Greek plate smasher



My father is German, my mother Greek. I m a european citizen.


Russia never gave Ukraine independence it was always a colony and under the russian boot. But thats the thing, what can russia offer other than backwardness and primitivism? Nothing, thats why all run away. Ukraine has a pest problem, which it currently deals with. And we send the tools.


----------



## Trango Towers

jhungary said:


> 1. How and Why? How first, how do you knock out the entire Powergrid in Ukraine? In the old days, when we do it, we bomb the powerplant, it's a no go as Ukraine heavily rely on Nuclear Power. So the only thing you can do to take out the powergrid of THE ENTIRE COUNTRY is to taking out all the substation. You are talking about thousand if not tens of thousand of Substation. Are you going to knock all of them down? And then what if they repair some of them?
> 
> Are you going to knock them down with Missile or Air Strike? First of all, you need 2 or 3 missile per target to make sure they are destroyed. Or you fly deep into Ukraine and destroy them with your aircraft. Russia won't have enough missile to take them all out and flying aircraft only work in the East because if you go deep into target in Western Ukraine, you are flying over the entire length of a hostile facing mobile and static SAM and Air Opposition, in short, you are going to lose a lot of aircraft.
> 
> On the other hand, why? We are not in the 60s, let's say even if you can take out the entire grid, that probably will hinder Ukrainian industrial capability (which would alternatively be destroy if you target those instead) so are you saying Ukraine cannot fight at night without power??
> 
> 2.) Again, how? That was a aerial intense task, let's pretend point 1 did not happen, you did not "waste" thousand of missile on their substation, how are you going to attack railway bridge and every road junction? First of all, it is not possible to do so with cruise missile, CEP is not enough and warhead is too small to make a different, which mean you are going to be looking at dropping a few snake on target if you want to destroy railway bridge or road junction. Then the same thing applies with point 1. You may be remotely able to do it in the East, but flying across the entire length of hostile country with Peer SAM system, sure, they don't have S-400. but S-300 would be more than a match for the Su-34 and Su-25 for that job. Even Stinger is enough to bring down (and they indeed brought down a few) those SUs.
> 
> On the other hand, Russia is a Armor heavy force, destroying the road would work against them because it will also slow their own advance.
> 
> 3.) What does that do to Military? First of all, there aren't much to attack, you can't go after dams in Nova Karkova because it will flood Crimea, Ukraine don't depend on desalination plant. Which mean they can get water in numerous source, from rain water to truck them from Poland. This is more gear toward sapping Civilian morale than inhibiting Ukrainian warfighting capability, and that is assume you can do it anyway, the same things applies, you need to be able to reach that.
> 
> 4.) How? What you can use to reach 500km inland from Belarus in Polish Border? You want to bomb them or you want to send missile? Cruise or Ballistic missile is for hard target, no one on this earth have that advance technology to target soft and moving target with Cruise missile. You want to fancy a long range ground strike day after day deep into Western Ukraine??
> 
> It's not about why they didn't do it, but whether or not they "can" do it.


Just one thing.

What was all that done in Iraq. That wasn't the 1960s


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537469034123386881
Damn @Tai Hai Chen He ain’t gonna be in Rush Hour 4

You don't live that, you shouldn't say that
Cause what come out your mouth'll get you *shot down*
Throwin' your money around and we don't play that
Getting in our line'll get you *shot down*
We know where you hang, we know where you stay at
That bullshit you on'll get you *shot down*






MANPADS are doing the job

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Trango Towers

Apollon said:


> My father is German, my mother Greek. I m a european citizen.
> 
> 
> Russia never gave Ukraine independence it was always a colony and under the russian boot. But thats the thing, what can russia offer other than backwardness and primitivism? Nothing, thats why all run away. Ukraine has a pest problem, which it currently deals with. And we send the tools.


You are who you are ot doesn't matter. So you are partly Greek. No big deal even if you were from a deserted island.
If it was a Russian colony then why was it allowed to flourish so much. Ofcourse Eastern Ukraine is backwards

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ZeGerman

zzzz said:


> You mean territory near Kiev that Russia is not planning to take? That means following your logic that Russia taking only half of Ukraine would be considered big win by Ukraine?


Ukraine used to be firm in russias sphere of influence and control now 80% is anti-russian. 


zzzz said:


> Russia with just 150k troops (15% of its army)


A lot of these are combat ready troops and material instead. Losing these hurts more and russiancannot simply empty border regions either to reinforce. 


zzzz said:


> with minimal losses


Estimations of 15.000 to 20.000 killed. This is massive. This is also why they had to retreat from kiev and kharkiv, and now have a snake crawl speed of pushing in donbass. 


zzzz said:


> succefully massacring 700 000 strong Ukrainian army supplied by whole NATO.


Ukranian losses are similar to russian…
And supplies are only starting to build up. The nato reserve material is far far far from depleted/used. 



zzzz said:


> What is surprised the whole world is humiliating performance of American weapons, NATO


Ehmm with cheap javelins, stingers and anti-ship weapons russia lost thousands of material and their flagship….

Howitzer and caedar are performing well. More fun to come with the himars


zzzz said:


> and rapid collapse of Western economies.


This will be global recession. 
Will be a hit cause we relied/trusted russia on gas/oil shipments. Nothing close to a collapse though. And after we are weaned of russian gas, then russia just lost their biggest customer….


zzzz said:


> Everyone sees now that US and NATO is just a pathetic paper tiger  Russia is going to continue humiliate NATO and US in Ukraine


Ah thats why russia doesnt dare to scratch a milimeter of polish ground. 
Theathens nukes on finland/sweden for thinking of joining nato.
And part of the invasion of ukraine was because they were getting close to nato. 

Paper tiger? It puts the fear in russia however…and nato hasnt even started to really get involved yet.


----------



## jhungary

Trango Towers said:


> Just one thing.
> 
> What was all that done in Iraq. That wasn't the 1960s


Iraq the first time. not the second. Night fighting is still at infancy back in 1990

We did not attack the entire Power Grid in 2003. Those are no longer strategic target in 2003, those were tactical when I was in Iraq, you want the power to stop for a while (Like the airborne assault in Al-Harir Air Base) the 173 were to jump at night, and a power down within/around the airfield would have help the 173 insertion, so we attacked Powergrid north of Baghdad.

In all, not much Powergrid were targetted, we didn't even touch the main grid in Baghdad. When I rolled into Baghdad, the city still have power.









Electricity sector in Iraq - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## Apollon

Trango Towers said:


> You are who you are ot doesn't matter. So you are partly Greek. No big deal even if you were from a deserted island.
> If it was a Russian colony then why was it allowed to flourish so much. Ofcourse Eastern Ukraine is backwards



It started to flourish when russia was so weak it could not harm tgem that much anymore


----------



## Vergennes

ZeGerman said:


> Ukraine used to be firm in russias sphere of influence and control now 80% is anti-russian.
> 
> A lot of these are combat ready troops and material instead. Losing these hurts more and russiancannot simply empty border regions either to reinforce.
> 
> Estimations of 15.000 to 20.000 killed. This is massive. This is also why they had to retreat from kiev and kharkiv, and now have a snake crawl speed of pushing in donbass.
> 
> Ukranian losses are similar to russian…
> And supplies are only starting to build up. The nato reserve material is far far far from depleted/used.
> 
> 
> Ehmm with cheap javelins, stingers and anti-ship weapons russia lost thousands of material and their flagship….
> 
> Howitzer and caedar are performing well. More fun to come with the himars
> 
> This will be global recession.
> Will be a hit cause we relied/trusted russia on gas/oil shipments. Nothing close to a collapse though. And after we are weaned of russian gas, then russia just lost their biggest customer….
> 
> Ah thats why russia doesnt dare to scratch a milimeter of polish ground.
> Theathens nukes on finland/sweden for thinking of joining nato.
> And part of the invasion of ukraine was because they were getting close to nato.
> 
> Paper tiger? It puts the fear in russia however…and nato hasnt even started to really get involved yet.



Russians are so humiliated in Ukraine that they have to invent a narrative that they are fighting against the whole world and NATO,lmao.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537513607851913224


Apollon said:


> im not Greek, im european.



I think this @Apollon guy is suffering from mental instability.

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## Foinikas

Meanwhile in Ukraine...

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537521467616804866


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537522518067757056


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537491222063116288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537499516827586560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537406633353035776

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537497481780637702

Hundreds of Russian soldiers have been killed in Severodonetsk


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1536952232968695811
Real figures probably being even bigger.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537497481780637702
> 
> Hundreds of Russian soldiers have been killed in Severodonetsk



Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. Russia can afford 10 million losses. Ukraine cannot afford that. So at the end of the day Russia wins Donbas revolutionary war.

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## Get Ya Wig Split

POLITICO: US NATIONAL DEFENSE BUDGET 2023: $847 BILLION​








POLITICO: US NATIONAL DEFENSE BUDGET 2023: $847 BILLION


Senators tack $45B onto Biden's defense budget Lawmakers say high inflation and the need to arm Ukraine is adding to the cost. Sen. Jim Inhofe said the $45 billion topline increase to the annual defense policy bill was "everything I hoped for." The Senate Armed Services Committee has endorsed...



defence.pk





Pentagon be like:

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537516279208235008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537465949556813824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537510577530187783


Get Ya Wig Split said:


> POLITICO: US NATIONAL DEFENSE BUDGET 2023: $847 BILLION​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> POLITICO: US NATIONAL DEFENSE BUDGET 2023: $847 BILLION
> 
> 
> Senators tack $45B onto Biden's defense budget Lawmakers say high inflation and the need to arm Ukraine is adding to the cost. Sen. Jim Inhofe said the $45 billion topline increase to the annual defense policy bill was "everything I hoped for." The Senate Armed Services Committee has endorsed...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pentagon be like:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Tai Hai Chen



Too little. Needs to be 800 trillion dollars. Inflation be damned. Just print the damn money man.



Get Ya Wig Split said:


> @Tai Hai Chen

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537333881392844800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537499247171584001

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## Paul2

Foinikas said:


> Meanwhile in Ukraine...
> 
> View attachment 854377



$100,000,000,000 is a joke price for a continental war really.

US spent more in just 1 year fighting donkey cavalry in Aghanistan.

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## Get Ya Wig Split

Tai Hai Chen said:


>



Props for the Ric Flair video


----------



## F-22Raptor

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> Props for the Ric Flair video



“ I’ll take your girlfriend home and make a woman out of her…..because I’m a good guy.”

-Ric Flair

Wooooo!!!

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## The SC

Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537531103380226052




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537522259971153926

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537497289735999489

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## PakFactor

Foinikas said:


> Meanwhile in Ukraine...
> 
> View attachment 854377



Might as well just come clean and ask to rent the whole damn US Armed Forces at this point. US Gen. Miley saying Ukrainian's are losing approx. 100 soldiers avg. per day and approx. 300 avg. per day wounded.

Another thing the begging from Zelensky is getting boring even the damn Indians don't nag like this b1tch cunt does.

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## Primus

Foinikas said:


> Meanwhile in Ukraine...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 854377


What a noob. 

No interdictor class cruiser to make sure their enemies arent able to jump to hyperspace, no executor class super star destroyer to provide fire superiorty and no tartan class cruisers to provide AA support to the nearby TIE fighters and TIE bombers smh. He just wants 20 star destroyers. Thats like me saying i want a death star but no TIE fighters or turbo lasers to defend it smh

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## Foinikas

PakFactor said:


> Might as well just come clean and ask to rent the whole damn US Armed Forces at this point. US Gen. Miley saying Ukrainian's are losing approx. 100 soldiers avg. per day and approx. 300 avg. per day wounded.
> 
> Another thing the begging from Zelensky is getting boring even the damn Indians don't nag like this b1tch cunt does.


How does he think he will repay the Westerners after the war? He wants to make his country a colony?



Tai Hai Chen said:


> I think this @Apollon guy is suffering from mental instability.


Now he says he's not greek? He was bragging of being greek for months.



Paul2 said:


> $100,000,000,000 is a joke price for a continental war really.
> 
> US spent more in just 1 year fighting donkey cavalry in Aghanistan.


In adjusted inflation?


----------



## Trango Towers

Apollon said:


> It started to flourish when russia was so weak it could not harm tgem that much anymore


OK I guess we will have to disagree



Vergennes said:


> Russians are so humiliated in Ukraine that they have to invent a narrative that they are fighting against the whole world and NATO,lmao.


So they are NOT?
The whole world is not supply weapons?
The whole world s mercenaries are not fighting Russian ?
But you are winning on tictok

Ps: I think the invasion was wrong and every people have a right to live as they wish including Palestinians and kashmiris

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## F-22Raptor

PakFactor said:


> Might as well just come clean and ask to rent the whole damn US Armed Forces at this point. US Gen. Miley saying Ukrainian's are losing approx. 100 soldiers avg. per day and approx. 300 avg. per day wounded.
> 
> Another thing the begging from Zelensky is getting boring even the damn Indians don't nag like this b1tch cunt does.



The Russians are losing similar numbers if not double that. Hundreds of Russian soldiers have been killed in Severodonetsk alone.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537551886047498242

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537552367842893824


----------



## Trango Towers

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians are losing similar numbers if not double that. Hundreds of Russian soldiers have been killed in Severodonetsk alone.


Poor Russian tactics
This is not ww2


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537552192105762816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537553462048727040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537390052354973697


Trango Towers said:


> Poor Russian tactics
> This is not ww2



Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. Russia can afford to lose 30 million people in Donba revolutionary war. Ukraine cannot afford to lose 30 million people in Donbas revolutionary war. Ergo, at the end of the day, Russia will win in Donbas revolutionary war.

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## Foinikas

I had an idea for another meme....

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Trango Towers said:


> Poor Russian tactics
> This is not ww2



Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. Russia can afford to lose 30 million people in Donba revolutionary war. Ukraine cannot afford to lose 30 million people in Donbas revolutionary war. Ergo, at the end of the day, Russia will win in Donbas revolutionary war.

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## F-22Raptor

Trango Towers said:


> Poor Russian tactics
> This is not ww2




Russia uses mass artillery fire to shell everything in their path. They move infantry in, they get obliterated and retreat. The shelling starts all over again, rinse and repeat.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537562431987269643


F-22Raptor said:


> Russia uses mass artillery fire to shell everything in their path. They move infantry in, they get obliterated and retreat. The shelling starts all over again, rinse and repeat.



Latest Russian artillery have computerized fire control and automatic fire laying, deadly accurate and guided by drones. Word has it Russia is printing 100 billion dollars worth of money to build new artillery and drones for use in Donbas revolutionary war. It's going to get hot in Donbas.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537390052354973697


----------



## Trango Towers

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia uses mass artillery fire to shell everything in their path. They move infantry in, they get obliterated and retreat. The shelling starts all over again, rinse and repeat.


Well if they are retreating why is Ukraine losing ground ?? Please stop the tictok victories and get with reality

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## F-22Raptor

Trango Towers said:


> Well if they are retreating why is Ukraine losing ground ?? Please stop the tictok victories and get with reality



Russia has gained little ground, maybe a couple dozen kms. In fact, Ukraine has regained nearly the same amount of territory on other fronts. In the grand scheme of things, its not much movement.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia has gained little ground, maybe a couple dozen kms. In fact, Ukraine has regained nearly the same amount of territory on other fronts. In the grand scheme of things, its not much movement.



Donbas revolutionary war, just like covid-19, is permanent.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537538470301904897

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537498979549708288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537462592549142534

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## RoadAmerica

Tai Hai Chen said:


> If America invades Russia then China invades Taiwan in response. America can kiss Taiwan good bye forever.


You sure talk a big game 🙄

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537435675695337477

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537409069178408962

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537402595882442757

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## RoadAmerica

ckf said:


> EU is an occupied colony in reality. Papa US has bases all over EU member states under NATO. EU can't even fart without asking for US permission. I wouldn't be too proud of your self made construct of wealth when in reality EU citizens are nothing but slaves to American colonial commercial interest.


🤣 sure


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537384485322428419

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia uses mass artillery fire to shell everything in their path. They move infantry in, they get obliterated and retreat. The shelling starts all over again, rinse and repeat.



Cutting/sabotaging supply lines is truly essential.

Russians spend 150t+ of ammo per day, the only way they can sustain that is by delivery by rail.

An army which used to having 150t of ammo for everything will surely stumble in short term.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537572812260524032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537517085848379395

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537476930529808386

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## Gomig-21

ckf said:


> I doubt these were volunteers, more like US/UK special forces disguised as volunteers.



Why would you think that? Nothing would suggest the US is sending SF into Ukraine under volunteer disguise to fight against the Russians, and then get captured in a pair like this by Russian paratroopers while they're amongst a group of Ukranian fighters? Nah.

There's a large group of volunteers from the US and even from Canada going to fight there for some noble cause. The White House put out a announcement telling all individuals who have this idea not to go to Ukraine specifically for this reason. They don't want to risk any Americans getting caught as POWs or worst, dying in the process.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537333881392844800
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537499247171584001



He's something else this Lavrov lol.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537482283699032065


----------



## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> Cutting/sabotaging supply lines is truly essential.
> 
> Russians spend 150t+ of ammo per day, the only way they can sustain that is by delivery by rail.
> 
> An army which used to having 150t of ammo for everything will surely stumble in short term.



HIMARS and M270 will be capable of striking Russian supply lines in depth.

We also saw a huge strike on a Russian ammo depot today near Severodonetsk, that will likely slow their advance further.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537552367842893824


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> HIMARS and M270 will be capable of striking Russian supply lines in depth.
> 
> We also saw a huge strike on a Russian ammo depot today near Severodonetsk, that will likely slow their advance further.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537552367842893824




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537535939177742337

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537529422844243969

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537521682449047553

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> HIMARS and M270 will be capable of striking Russian supply lines in depth.
> 
> We also saw a huge strike on a Russian ammo depot today near Severodonetsk, that will likely slow their advance further.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537552367842893824





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537512070912122885






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537482531418910723

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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> Cutting/sabotaging supply lines is truly essential.
> 
> Russians spend 150t+ of ammo per day, the only way they can sustain that is by delivery by rail.
> 
> An army which used to having 150t of ammo for everything will surely stumble in short term.



The US will also be providing targets for those HIMARs. I expect significant Russian targets to be destroyed.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537573502601113604


F-22Raptor said:


> The US will also be providing targets for those HIMARs. I expect significant Russian targets to be destroyed.



Those HIMARS will be bombed by attack choppers. Their days in Donbas are numbered.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537512070912122885
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537482531418910723



These new Zala drones have really good EO compared to the older Orlan drones.



RoadAmerica said:


> You sure talk a big game 🙄



Russia is China's protectorate. Touch Russia and you will see China's full wrath.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> HIMARS and M270 will be capable of striking Russian supply lines in depth.
> 
> We also saw a huge strike on a Russian ammo depot today near Severodonetsk, that will likely slow their advance further.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537552367842893824



Only if they have 300 km range guided missiles. Without that they are vulnerable to Iskander cruise missiles which have 500 km range.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## PakAlp

The below maps show the slow Russian offensive. They have clearly changed tactics and are clearing all territory before moving forward. They are struggling and Ukraine is giving them a big fight.

05/06/2022 map







16/06/2022 map.

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 15​Jun 15, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF

*Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, June 15
Karolina Hird, Kateryna Stepanenko, Mason Clark, and Grace Mappes
June 15, 6pm ET
Click **here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Western officials announced additional military aid for Ukraine on June 15. *US President Joe Biden pledged $1 billion worth of military aid, including coastal defense weapons, advanced rocket systems, artillery, and ammunition to support Ukrainian operations.[1] NATO members additionally announced they will additionally continue to provide Ukraine with heavy weapons and long-range systems and plan to agree on a new assistance package after consultations with Ukraine’s Defense Ministry.[2] This newest round of military aid will be invaluable to support Ukrainian operations, especially in the face of increasingly protracted and artillery-heavy fighting against Russian forces in Eastern Ukraine, though Ukraine will require further sustained support.
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces launched ground assaults in Severodonetsk and settlements in its vicinity but have not taken full control over the city as of June 15.*
*Russian forces launched largely unsuccessful offensive operations around the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway in an effort to cut Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Lysychansk.*
*Russian forces continued efforts to advance along the E40 highway to Slovyansk and southeast of Izyum.*
*Russian and Ukrainian forces continued to fight in northeastern settlements around Kharkiv City.*
*Russian forces continued to fortify fallback positions in Zaporizhia and Kherson Oblasts, while undertaking defensive measures to strengthen Russian presence in the Black Sea.*
*The Kremlin and proxy republics continue to pursue ad hoc annexation policies in occupied territories.*
*

*

*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued ground assaults in and around Severodonetsk but have not yet captured the Azot industrial plant or taken full control of the city as of June 15.[3] Russian forces have largely isolated Ukrainian troops in Severodonetsk from their lines of communication and are attacking Severodonetsk from multiple directions.[4] Russian troops also conducted an unsuccessful assault in Toshkivka, likely to drive northwards towards Lysychansk instead of conducting an opposed river crossing after having destroyed bridge access to Lysychansk from Severodonetsk.[5] Russian forces continued to fire on settlements surrounding Severodonetsk to further isolate Ukrainian troops and complicate their withdrawal or re-supply efforts.[6]




Russian forces continued offensive operations towards Slovyansk from the southeast of Izyum and made incremental gains on June 15.[7] A Russian Telegram channel claimed that Russian forces captured Dolyna, about 20 kilometers northwest of Slovyansk along the E40 (also known as the M03) highway.[8] Russian forces additionally continued fighting in Dolyna in Krasnopillya and are likely using their positions around Bohorodychne to launch operations to the southeast along the E40 highway.[9]
Russian forces continued ground assaults east of Bakhmut and made marginal gains along the critical T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway on June 15. Russian forces reportedly broke through Ukrainian defenses in Vrubivka and are fighting for control of Mykolaivka, Yasylivka, Yakovlikva, and Berestove, all settlements within 10 kilometers of the T1302.[10] The Ukrainian General Staff additionally noted that Russian forces re-deployed one battalion tactical group (BTG) to the Bakhmut area from Kupyansk and deployed unspecified elements of the 8th Combined Arms Army to the Komyshuvakha-Popasna area.[11] This deployment to the Bakhmut area indicates that Russian forces are increasingly prioritizing their force grouping around Bakhmut in order to drive up the T1302 highway and complete the encirclement of Lysychansk and Severodonetsk.
Russian forces may be staging false flag attacks around Donetsk City to dissuade pro-Ukrainian sentiment. Local residents of Donetsk City and Makiivka reported heavy shelling of infrastructure within both cities.[12] Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) authorities accused Ukrainian forces of conducting the artillery strikes, but social media users and the Ukrainian Center for Counteracting Disinformation denied these claims and stated that they were likely perpetrated by Russian troops in order to foster anti-Ukrainian sentiments or encourage mobilization into proxy forces.[13] These potential false flag attacks may be a response to statements made by Western officials on June 15 announcing increasing military aid for Ukraine.[14]




*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces continued ground assaults northeast of Kharkiv City to push Ukrainian troops away from occupied frontiers near the Russian border on June 15.[15] Russian forces are likely fighting in Rubizhne (in Kharkiv, not Luhansk Oblast), Tsupivka, Ternova, Staryi Saltiv, and Verkhnii Saltiv.[16] Russian troops continued to fire on settlements around Kharkiv City.[17]




*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces continued to focus on defensive operations in preparation for potential Ukrainian counterattacks along the Southern Axis on June 15.[18] The Ukrainian General Staff stated that Russian forces are improving their engineering equipment around two settlements just southeast of Davydiv Brid, where Ukrainian forces are still conducting limited counterattacks.[19] Russian forces are additionally regrouping in Zaporizhia Oblast.[20] The Zaporizhia Regional Military Administration reported that Russian troops are fortifying positions in Dniprorudne (western Zaporizhia Oblast) with equipment from Crimea and regrouping around Vasylivka to support operations along the Vasylivka-Orikhiv-Huliapole line.[21] The Ukrainian General Staff stated that Russian forces additionally deployed an electronic warfare complex to Melitopol, likely to further support their defensive presence in Zaporizhia and counter ongoing partisan actions.[22]
Russian forces are likely attempting to strengthen their presence in the northwestern Black Sea. Satellite imagery from June 14 shows an increase in fortifications and military equipment on Snake Island.[23] The Russian-appointed Kherson occupation administration stated that the Kherson Commerical Sea Port has resumed operations and will begin cargo transport.[24] While Ukrainian forces still control the critical coastline location of Ochakiv, Mykolaiv Oblast, and can possibly interdict Russian shipping, Russian forces likely intend to strengthen control over port access in the Black Sea under the protection of a fortified naval presence on Snake Island.




*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Head of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) Denis Pushilin continued attempts to establish economic partnerships between occupied areas of Donetsk Oblast with Russian territories. Pushilin met with the governors of Chelyabinsk Oblast and the Yamalo-Nenets Autonomous Okrug in order to agree on a patronage framework for cooperation with occupied Volnovakha and Yasinuvata.[25] Pushilin additionally met with governor of St. Petersburg to arrange for the restoration of Mariupol.[26] Pushilin is likely seeking to arrange for infrastructure assistance to restore these cities, but his continuous pursuit of ad hoc arrangements with Russian territorial bodies indicates continued inconsistencies between annexation policies pursued by DNR authorities.
Russian authorities are continuing to face difficulties implementing their occupation agendas due to pro-Ukrainian pressure in occupied areas. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported that unidentified Ukrainian partisans targeted employees of the Russian Emergency Ministry in Mariupol on June 9 and 11.[27] The Ukrainian Resistance Center additionally claimed that Russian occupation authorities are unable to open schools in occupied Berdyansk due to resistance from Ukrainian teachers, who are refusing to teach under Russian curricula.[28] Such pro-Ukrainian action will likely continue to disrupt Russian efforts to consolidate full-scale administrative control of occupied areas and Russian annexation agendas.

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 16​Jun 16, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF

*Kateryna Stepanenko, Mason Clark, George Barros, and Grace Mappes
June 16, 7:00 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
The leaders of Germany, France, Italy, and Romania committed to Ukrainian officials that the West would not demand any concessions from Ukraine to appease Russia and will support Ukraine to the end of the war during a visit to Kyiv on June 16. *French President Emmanuel Macron declared that France, Germany, Italy, and Romania are “are doing everything so that Ukraine alone can decide its fate.”[1] Macron added that Ukraine “must be able to win” and pledged to provide six more self-propelled howitzers.[2] German Chancellor Olaf Scholz stated that Germany will continue to provide financial, humanitarian, and weapons assistance for “Ukraine’s war of independence.”[3] Macron, Scholz, Italian Prime Minister Mario Draghi, and Romanian President Klaus Iohannis additionally vowed to back Ukraine’s bid to become an official candidate for European Union membership.[4] Sustained Western military support to Ukraine will be essential to enable Ukrainian forces to liberate Russian-occupied territory.
*Ukrainian defense officials explicitly requested Western heavy artillery, unmanned aerial vehicles, and multiple-launch rocket systems (MLRS) ahead of a protracted war. *Ukrainian Deputy Defense Minister Denys Sharapov and Land Force Command Logistics Commander Volodymyr Karpenko stated that Ukrainian forces need hundreds of artillery systems, including infantry fighting vehicles and tanks, as Ukrainian forces have suffered 30% to 50% equipment losses in active combat.[5] Sharapov and Karpenko noted that Ukrainian forces need Predator drones and loitering munitions to accurately strike Russian forces. Sharapov and Karpenko also asked for long-range precision weapons such as MLRS to defend the entire 2,500 km frontline in Ukraine.
*Ukrainian officials stated that Russian forces have already committed about 330,000 servicemen to their invasion of Ukraine without conducting partial or full-scale mobilization in Russia. *Ukrainian General Staff Main Operations Deputy Chief Oleksiy Gromov stated that Russian forces grouped 150,000 servicemen into battalion tactical groups (BTGs) and other formations and involved additional 70,000 troops from air and sea elements, with the remaining personnel staffing non-combat support units.[6] Gromov noted that Russian forces committed more than 80,000 servicemen of the mobilized reserve, up to 7,000 reservists of the Russian Combat Army Reserve (BARS-2021), up to 18,000 members of the Russian National Guard (Rosguardia), and up to 8,000 troops from private military companies. Gromov did not specify if Ukrainian officials included information about forcibly mobilized servicemen in the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DNR and LNR) in these numbers. Gromov noted that the Kremlin may still increase the number of Russian military personnel in Ukraine by executing covert or full mobilization.[7] Gromov noted that while it is unknown if the Kremlin will declare mobilization, Russian forces will still need time to execute the deployment and training of the new personnel whether or not the Kremlin announces full mobilization.
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces continued to launch ground assaults on Severodonetsk and settlements along the Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Lysychansk. Ukrainian military intelligence reported that Russian forces are no longer operating as concrete battalion tactical groups (BTGs), as ISW previously assessed.*
*Russian forces conducted unsuccessful offensive operations northwest of Slovyansk, while Ukrainian forces reportedly resumed preparations for counteroffensives west of Izyum.*
*Russian and Ukrainian forces engaged in clashes north and northeast of Kharkiv City, though no significant territory changed hands.*
*Russian forces continued to fortify fallback positions in northwestern Kherson Oblast, likely in anticipation of Ukrainian counteroffensives in the region.*
*Head of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) Denis Pushilin continued to discuss and sign patronage agreements with Russian regional officials.*



*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces are prioritizing operations to disrupt Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Lysychansk from several directions. Ukrainian Commander-in-Chief Valeryi Zalyzhnyi said that Russian forces are simultaneously launching assaults in Donbas in nine directions, presented as a two-part direction including the main location Russian forces are attacking from and their intended objective: Popasna-Komyshuvakha, Popasna-Mykolaivka, Popasna-Berestove, Bohorodychne-Slovyansk, Izyum-Slovyansk, Popasna-Svitlodarsk, Severodonetsk-Lysychansk, Severodonetsk-Metolkine, and Komushuvakha-Toshkivka.[8] Ukrainian General Staff Main Operations Deputy Chief Oleksiy Gromov noted that Russian forces are committing smaller elements (company or platoon-sized assault groups) rather than full-fledged battalion tactical groups (BTGs) for offensive operations.[9] Gromov added that Russian forces are not conducting offensive operations at night. The UK Defense Ministry also stated that Russian forces are operating in “increasingly ad hoc and severely undermanned groupings” in Donbas that typically advance by foot.[10]



Russian forces conducted ground assaults in Severodonetsk in a grinding effort to establish control over the city.[11] Gromov reported that Ukrainian forces continue to resist Russian attacks in Severodonetsk and are halting Russian operations to capture Metolkine and Syrotyne, just southeast of Severodonetsk.[12] Russian forces likely intend to capture Metolkine and Syvrotyne, rather than strictly concentrating on Severodonetsk, to push back Ukrainian forces on the western bank of Siverskyi Donets River and secure access to the eastern riverbank. Gromov clarified that Ukrainian forces retain several logistics routes to Severodonetsk despite the destruction of four bridges over the Siverskyi Donets River, pushing back on recent media reports and Russian claims that Ukrainian forces in the city are completely cut off.[13] Head of the Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) Leonid Pasechnik stated that Ukrainian forces still control the territory of the Azot Chemical Plant but that Russian and proxy forces entered the premises of the facility on June 16.[14]
Russian forces continued to attack Ukrainian GLOCs around Popasna on June 16. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repulsed Russian assaults on Berestove, situated on the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway.[15] Pro-Russian milblogger and Russian military journalist Yevgeniy Poddubnyi claimed that Russian forces control unspecified segments along the T1302 and have interdicted transfer of Ukrainian reserves from Bakhmut but ISW cannot independently confirm this claim.[16] The Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) Territorial Defense additionally claimed to have established control over Novoluhanske, Luhanske, Rozsadky, and Shakhtarsk, southeast of Bakhmut.[17]
Russian forces launched unsuccessful assaults northwest of Slovyansk and made incremental territorial advances southeast of Izyum. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces failed to seize Dolyna (on the E40 highway to Slovyansk) and retreated to previously occupied positions.[18] Geolocated footage shows Ukrainian forces targeting Russian heavy artillery attempting to advance from the east and the northwestern outskirts of Bohorodychne, approximately 25 km southeast of Izyum.[19] Ukrainian forces may be resuming counteroffensive operations west of Izyum. Pro-Russian Telegram channel Rybar claimed that Ukrainian forces established a pontoon bridge over the Siverskyi Donets River, approximately 26 km west of Izyum, on June 15.[20] Continued Russian artillery fire west and northwest of Izyum is also likely an indicator of Ukrainian counteroffensives in the area.[21] If confirmed, this Ukrainian counteroffensive is likely intended to sever Russian lines of communication to the Izyum and Lyman areas.



*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces reportedly continued to engage in localized clashes with Ukrainian elements to maintain their occupied positions near the international border on June 16.[22] Pro-Russian Telegram channel Rybar claimed that Russian forces fought Ukrainian units in Dementiivka and Ruska Lozova along the Belgorod-Kharkiv City highway and in Rubizhne and Ternova, approximately 45 km northeast of Kharkiv City.[23] NASA FIRMS data observed significant high-temperature anomalies in Dementiivka but did not confirm any anomalies in Ruska Lozova.



[Source: NASA’s Fire Information for Resource Management System over Dementiivka for June 16]
*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces continued to fortify fallback positions in Kherson and Mykolaiv oblasts, likely in response to local Ukrainian counterattacks. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian engineering elements improved defensive positions around Bezvodne and Ishchenka, just southeast of the contested town of Davydiv Brid on the Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) in northwestern Kherson Oblast.[24] Ukrainian General Staff Main Operations Deputy Chief Oleksiy Gromov noted that Russian forces are also dismantling concrete irrigation structures in Kherson Oblast to conceal heavy artillery from Ukrainian strikes.[25] Russian forces reportedly shelled Ukrainian positions on the Kherson-Mykolaiv and Kherson-Dnipropetrovsk Oblast borders, likely in a counter-battery attempt to hinder Ukrainian advances.[26] Odesa Oblast Civil-Military Administration Spokesperson Serhiy Bratchuk claimed that Ukrainian forces had unspecified successes on the Southern Axis, but ISW cannot independently verify this claim.[27]
Russian forces may be staging false flag attacks around Kherson City to discourage civilian support for Ukrainian counteroffensive operations. The Ukrainian Southern Operational Command reported civilian casualties during an explosion on June 15 at a local market in Chornobaivka, a settlement just north of Kherson City known for Ukrainian strikes against Russian ammunition depots in the area.[28] The Ukrainian Southern Operational Command stated that Russian forces seek to destabilize public opinion in Kherson City and blame Ukrainian forces for launching strikes on civilian infrastructure.[29]
Russian forces reportedly performed demonstrative assaults on settlements in eastern Zaporizhia Oblast to fix Ukrainian units in place.[30] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces eliminated a Russian sabotage and reconnaissance group operating on the Zaporizhia-Donetsk Oblast border on June 16.[31]



*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Head of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) Denis Pushilin continued to pursue ad hoc cooperation arrangements with Russian regional officials at the St. Petersburg Economic Forum on June 16.[32] Pushilin signed a Memorandum of Cooperation with Moscow Oblast Governor Andrey Vorobyov under which Moscow Oblast will offer patronage to Tel’manivskyi and Novoazovsk districts, just east of Mariupol.[33] Pushilin signed another memorandum with Tula Governor Alexei Dyumin for the restoration of Mariupol’s Left Bank district.[34] Pushillin also discussed patronage over occupied Khrestivka (northeast of Donetsk City) with the Republic of Sakha Head Aisen Nikolaev and unspecified Donetsk Oblast settlements with the Tver Oblast Governor Igor Rudenya.[35] Pushilin is likely attempting to secure Russian financial assistance to restore occupied settlements in Donetsk Oblast, but his cooperation agreements with Russian local officials further indicate the DNR‘s lack of coherent annexation policies.
The Kremlin is introducing more measures to establish permanent societal control over occupied Ukrainian territories. Self-proclaimed Deputy Head of the Kherson Military-Civil Administration Kiril Stremousov announced that all children born in Kherson Oblast after February 24 will automatically receive Russian citizenship.[36] The Russian Internal Ministry also announced that Ukrainian “refugees” (many of whom were likely forcibly relocated to Russia) from occupied territories must receive proper documentation before August 17 to remain in Russia.[37] The Kremlin likely seeks to coerce illegally deported Ukrainian citizens in Russia to accept Russian citizenship or return to Russian-occupied territories in Ukraine.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537571053563781122


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## Apollon

Trango Towers said:


> OK I guess we will have to disagree
> 
> 
> So they are NOT?
> The whole world is not supply weapons?
> The whole world s mercenaries are not fighting Russian ?
> But you are winning on tictok
> 
> Ps: I think the invasion was wrong and every people have a right to live as they wish including Palestinians and kashmiris



Nope. Only USA, Germany, UK, France, Poland, Australia, Italy and Greece send weapons and it appears thats more than enough to make this a horror for putins empire of dirt. 

Russia was completly crushed at Kiev, devastated at Kharkov. Lost 11 generals, roughly 30.000 soldiers...more than its long war with Afghanistan..lost its flagship and one of its only 4 troop transport ships. 


Russia also lost all its infrastructure in Europe. Build in 50 years. 


That is losing amigo, losing war, losing worldwide. Russia now is a chinese colony with no way back out of that trap.


Tell me how russia could balance chinese power over it, when it has no alternative?


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> Nope. Only USA, Germany, UK, France, Poland, Australia, Italy and Greece send weapons and it appears thats more than enough to make this a horror for putins empire of dirt.
> 
> Russia was completly crushed at Kiev, devastated at Kharkov. Lost 11 generals, roughly 30.000 soldiers...more than its long war with Afghanistan..lost its flagship and one of its only 4 troop transport ships.
> 
> 
> Russia also lost all its infrastructure in Europe. Build in 50 years.
> 
> 
> That is losing amigo, losing war, losing worldwide. Russia now is a chinese colony with no way back out of that trap.
> 
> 
> Tell me how russia could balance chinese power over it, when it has no alternative?



Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. Russia can afford to lose 30 million men in Donbas revolutionary war. Ukraine cannot afford to lose 30 million men in Donbas revolutionary war. So at the end of the day Russia wins.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537331646017310720

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## DF41

zzzz said:


> You mean territory near Kiev that Russia is not planning to take? That means following your logic that Russia taking only half of Ukraine would be considered big win by Ukraine?
> 
> Russia with just 150k troops (15% of its army) with minimal losses succefully massacring 700 000 strong Ukrainian army supplied by whole NATO. What is surprised the whole world is humiliating performance of American weapons, NATO and rapid collapse of Western economies. Everyone sees now that US and NATO is just a pathetic paper tiger  Russia is going to continue humiliate NATO and US in Ukraine

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## ckf

Gomig-21 said:


> Why would you think that? Nothing would suggest the US is sending SF into Ukraine under volunteer disguise to fight against the Russians, and then get captured in a pair like this by Russian paratroopers while they're amongst a group of Ukranian fighters? Nah.
> 
> There's a large group of volunteers from the US and even from Canada going to fight there for some noble cause. The White House put out a announcement telling all individuals who have this idea not to go to Ukraine specifically for this reason. They don't want to risk any Americans getting caught as POWs or worst, dying in the process.
> 
> 
> 
> He's something else this Lavrov lol.


How can you differentiate volunteers vs regulars?...You can't. I can only speak for Andy Huynh's case, he's a marine who's never been in combat and is a mechanised robotic specialist. Not sure why he volunteer to fight in Ukraine or why he's in Ukraine? The other guy is a security contractor, so he's there for the money. Whatever the truth is, it doesn't matter. I don't really care either, just speculating as most American contractors would want to be paid and obviously they are being paid. How ever u framed whether they are volunteers or regulars, does it really matter?

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## DF41

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537435675695337477




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537649059733057536

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## jhungary

According to Lavrov, there are no war in Ukraine, and Russia is not invading Ukraine.






Well, I guess this is already one step up, at least Russian government acknowledge that there is an independent country called "Ukraine" and it's not just "Little Russia" as per Putin...

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## DF41

Video so wonderful that surely you like to see that twice at the very least













__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537180218905055234

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537611663821660160

US Marine volunteers in Severodonetsk


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## Madni Bappa

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537611663821660160
> 
> US Marine volunteers in Severodonetsk


Wait till they come back and do a terrorist attack on some grocery store or Black church or something.

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## Hack-Hook

Vergennes said:


> Russians are so humiliated in Ukraine that they have to invent a narrative that they are fighting against the whole world and NATO,lmao.


Aren't they ?

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## A.P. Richelieu

Trango Towers said:


> Russia is NOT all out against Ukraine.
> 
> Any country attacking another would in the start phase of war would.
> 
> 1. Knock out the entire power grid
> 2. Knock out railway main bridges and road network
> 3. Water and sanitation
> 4. Constantly attack anything entering the country.
> 
> Why has Russia not done the above being so evil?


Since the plan was to annex Ukraine, Russia did not want to destroy the infrastructure. As this plan failed, they now go back to normal Russian ”flatten” style.
They appear not to be able to use their Air Force all over Ukraine, so it is beyond their capability to block transports going into the country,


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> According to Lavrov, there are no war in Ukraine, and Russia is not invading Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I guess this is already one step up, at least Russian government acknowledge that there is an independent country called "Ukraine" and it's not just "Little Russia" as per Putin...


Lavrov is a liar. He makes Russia to a country of liars. He once wanted to fly to Serbia however the airspace was closed his trip canceled. How embarrassing it is. Obviously nobody want to see a liar flying over their country.

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## ZeGerman

Hack-Hook said:


> Aren't they ?


Hmm. 0% of nato troops in ukraine. 
Something like 2-5% of weaponry reserves supplied to ukraine, by only part of nato countries? 

Far from it. Only real sable rettling that has negative impact on nato is from economic warfare between the blocks.


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## wahhab0202

Eve


Apollon said:


> It will be shut down anyways or do you believe Europe will continue any trade with Russia?


Eventually it will be shut. Europe better look gas supplier from other sources and Russia better sell their HC to other countries. Two powers seriously not get along together for the coming decade.
But my question is who will supply oil and gas to Europe when no more come from Russia? Oil may be easy, you can sell the off the shelve crude. But for gas, it is a different story


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## Apollon

wahhab0202 said:


> Eve
> 
> Eventually it will be shut. Europe better look gas supplier from other sources and Russia better sell their HC to other countries. Two powers seriously not get along together for the coming decade.
> But my question is who will supply oil and gas to Europe when no more come from Russia? Oil may be easy, you can sell the off the shelve crude. But for gas, it is a different story



The problem goes over Ukraine. Russia as facist empire has no future without dominating Europe. Putin knows this. Europe is manpower, tech and economic power. Russia has nothing of that. 


We have to phase out gas. And also drill our own resources.


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537695657439404032
Another russian ship denazified.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537698120380948481


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## Trango Towers

Apollon said:


> Nope. Only USA, Germany, UK, France, Poland, Australia, Italy and Greece send weapons and it appears thats more than enough to make this a horror for putins empire of dirt.
> 
> Russia was completly crushed at Kiev, devastated at Kharkov. Lost 11 generals, roughly 30.000 soldiers...more than its long war with Afghanistan..lost its flagship and one of its only 4 troop transport ships.
> 
> 
> Russia also lost all its infrastructure in Europe. Build in 50 years.
> 
> 
> That is losing amigo, losing war, losing worldwide. Russia now is a chinese colony with no way back out of that trap.
> 
> 
> Tell me how russia could balance chinese power over it, when it has no alternative?


Belgium as run out of space weapons to send Ukraine....just saying.
Mercs from as far as Korea Australia and USA. 
Anyways if you think Russia started building assets in the west 50 years ago that would have been 1982 the height of the cold War....seriously man?? 
Regarding losing war ...I agree. Russia should not have invaded and NATO should not have encouraged Ukraine to join. Ultimately its the average poor soul on both sides of teh conflict that dies and loses. The rich old men that start wars sit calming drinking wine etc. 
Balancing Chinese power? I don't understand your question.


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## sammuel

Trango Towers said:


> Belgium as run out of space weapons to send Ukraine....just saying.
> Mercs from as far as Korea Australia and USA.
> Anyways if you think Russia started building assets in the west 50 years ago that would have been 1982 the height of the cold War....seriously man??
> Regarding losing war ...I agree. Russia should not have invaded and NATO should not have encouraged Ukraine to join. Ultimately its the average poor soul on both sides of teh conflict that dies and loses. The rich old men that start wars sit calming drinking wine etc.
> Balancing Chinese power? I don't understand your question.



War stinks.

~

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## Hack-Hook

ZeGerman said:


> Hmm. 0% of nato troops in ukraine.
> Something like 2-5% of weaponry reserves supplied to ukraine, by only part of nato countries?
> 
> Far from it. Only real sable rettling that has negative impact on nato is from economic warfare between the blocks.


that 2-5% made Belgium ran out of weapon


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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537753216066150400


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## ZeGerman

Hack-Hook said:


> that 2-5% made Belgium ran out of weapon


They have run out of weapons to send as in “what spare weapons they had laying around and willing to part with. “

They have alot more but ofcourse keep these for their own national defense purposes. 






List of equipment of the Belgian Land Component - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org






Also belgium is a tiny conponent of total nato might. usa now send 100 howitzers but still has another 900 for instance.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537695930845212672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537756631827628032

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537753216066150400




How do you know that is a Russian tank? A Russian soldier wouldn't be taking a selfie on his own country's destroyed tank. That would cause a court martial. That is a Ukrainian tank. Try to bring stories that are available. Some of us are paying attention, remember.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537756631827628032


jhungary said:


> According to Lavrov, there are no war in Ukraine, and Russia is not invading Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I guess this is already one step up, at least Russian government acknowledge that there is an independent country called "Ukraine" and it's not just "Little Russia" as per Putin...



It's not a war. It is a military operation to protect Donbas children from Kiev artillery.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537695657439404032
> Another russian ship denazified.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537698120380948481





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537562431987269643

Those Russian pilots are getting a lot of experience. I say a lot.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537765152161992706

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537766857754693639


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537562431987269643
> 
> Those Russian pilots are getting a lot of experience. I say a lot.



Enjoy their time in the sky while they can. Next war they be sitting on couch with video game gear in hand.


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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> How do you know that is a Russian tank? A Russian soldier wouldn't be taking a selfie on his own country's destroyed tank. That would cause a court martial. That is a Ukrainian tank. Try to bring stories that are available. Some of us are paying attention, remember.



The BTR-MDM is only in service within the Russian army. (Airborne troops) If indeed you would "pay attention" you wouldn't waste your time writing this comment.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537698701791182848

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## Paul2

*When the secretaries of Defense and State said publicly the U.S. wants Ukraine to win and weaken Russia, Biden said tone it down*

Reading this, I think Biden really going porridge brain, and BSE


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537765200153165827


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537705786436161536

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537711700652306433

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537711712052269056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537711720600322048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537711723326713856

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537711725130170368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537711726560481283

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537562431987269643
> 
> Those Russian pilots are getting a lot of experience. I say a lot.


With those extra hours flown they just might catch up on fresh Nato cadets 

unless they get fried by manpads. Then its back to square one with a poorly trained russian fresh pilot.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Chechens and big guns


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537748837837811714


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

TOS-1A thermobaric MRLS


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537730138611269632
Forpost MALE drone


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537735732462231552
Russians shoot ATGM


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537735334854803456

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## 925boy

RoadAmerica said:


> weapons and Ukraine has proven to be quite a match my friend





Tai Hai Chen said:


> If America invades Russia then China invades Taiwan in response. America can kiss Taiwan good bye forever.


But i'm also worried China might think this is the best time to attack Taiwan. whyyyy???? well the west has more or less run out of ammunition, so what would they use to fight China if hostilities with Taiwan breaks out?? JUST my thoughts btw!


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## Abid123

925boy said:


> But i'm also worried China might think this is the best time to attack Taiwan. whyyyy???? well the west has more or less run out of ammunition, so what would they use to fight China if hostilities with Taiwan breaks out?? JUST my thoughts btw!


China is a smart nation. They are not going to attack now. They should wait till 2040. By that time China would be the undisputed military superpower.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

925boy said:


> But i'm also worried China might think this is the best time to attack Taiwan. whyyyy???? well the west has more or less run out of ammunition, so what would they use to fight China if hostilities with Taiwan breaks out?? JUST my thoughts btw!



If America fights Russia then America has no more energy to fight China.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537707062691504129


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## reflecthofgeismar

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> How do you know that is a Russian tank? A Russian soldier wouldn't be taking a selfie on his own country's destroyed tank. That would cause a court martial. That is a Ukrainian tank. Try to bring stories that are available. Some of us are paying attention, remember.



Because you don't have eyes and/or don't know the vehicle type.
MAXIMUM it's a destroyed - CAPTURED by Ukrainians - Russian BTR-MDM (VDV APC based on BMD-4M)*.*



Vergennes said:


> The BTR-MDM is only in service within the Russian army. (Airborne troops) If indeed you would "pay attention" you wouldn't waste your time writing this comment.


Correct.
MAYBE it was captured by Ukrainian forces before destroyed.
That's the only possibility it "wasn't Russian".


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537743956791934976


----------



## DF41

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537365092748369921.

Twitter will translate.

World first micro missile to hunt snipers, helicopters and armour cars.

China enemies cannot run, cannot hide and remain eternally young. . .



https://inf.news/en/military/e216edc4350d07ad049b992cf0b50fd4.html



👌👌👌👍👍👍👏👏👏 
🥁🥁🥁 

*🇨🇳🇨🇳🇨🇳 WANG SUI WANG WANG SUI 萬歲 萬 萬歲 🇨🇳🇨🇳🇨🇳*

👌👌👌👍👍👍👏👏👏



Imagine if China send 10 Y20 planes to Russia packed with these.

And if NATO really be cute and funny with Russia, additional Chinese military hardware be send as well.

*China recognised the concerted efforts by USA and NATO to weaken or kill Russia is but the opening move to kill China, and China will not allow that to happen.

China will rather the war be fought, and won in Ukraine.*

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537820795258523649

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537683992044240897

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537829623505076226


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> How do you know that is a Russian tank? A Russian soldier wouldn't be taking a selfie on his own country's destroyed tank. That would cause a court martial. That is a Ukrainian tank. Try to bring stories that are available. Some of us are paying attention, remember.


I don’t think someone that believes an APC is a tank has anything to add to the discussion


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537791120423403520


----------



## MeFishToo

A.P. Richelieu said:


> I don’t think someone that believes an APC is a tank has anything to add to the discussion


Russian tanks seem to be in the air and the helicopters on the ground. No wonder if we are having problems identifying russian material.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537776439365455875

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537698701791182848

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## F-22Raptor

Within the next few weeks Ukraine will be receiving:

12x PZH2000
18xM777
6xCaesar
4xHIMARS
6xM270s
Over 20x M109s


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537747463481729026

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537748479438733313


F-22Raptor said:


> Within the next few weeks Ukraine will be receiving:
> 
> 12x PZH2000
> 18xM777
> 6xCaesar
> 4xHIMARS
> 6xM270s
> Over 20x M109s



Seems few. Ukraine will need at least 500 artillery if not more. Russia already has thousands of artillery in Donbas and is manufacturing thousands more with the printing of hundreds of billions of dollars worth of money fresh off the printing press.

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## ckf

925boy said:


> But i'm also worried China might think this is the best time to attack Taiwan. whyyyy???? well the west has more or less run out of ammunition, so what would they use to fight China if hostilities with Taiwan breaks out?? JUST my thoughts btw!


 I don't think artillery AMMO is that important in the pacific, Battles will be won by missiles + air + Naval power projection.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ckf said:


> I don't think artillery AMMO is that important in the pacific, Battles will be won by missiles + air + Naval power projection.



J-20 would whip F-16 in the air. Chinese air and sea blockade would cause massive famine in Taiwan starving millions of Taiwanese to death.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537839907971817477

Ukraine destroyed this Russian ship with Harpoons


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537839907971817477
> 
> Ukraine destroyed this Russian ship with Harpoons



There was news couple of days ago that all Russian naval ships in black sea have already been destroyed. 

Is this a new ship that Russia moved into Black sea?


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537782433608876036

Another Russian ammo depot hit

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## 925boy

Tai Hai Chen said:


> If America fights Russia then America has no more energy to fight China.


no lie detected.

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## F-22Raptor

925boy said:


> no lie detected.




The US has only given $5.5B in military aid to Ukraine to date. This is pennies for the US. What the US has given is a very small portion of US firepower.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537849634093207557


----------



## kingQamaR

F-22Raptor said:


> The US has only given $5.5B in military aid to Ukraine to date. This is pennies for the US. What the US has given is a very small portion of US firepower.



Think of all the good the money you are sending to Ukraine would do in America where it's needed badly

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## kingQamaR

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> There was news couple of days ago that all Russian naval ships in black sea have already been destroyed.
> 
> Is this a new ship that Russia moved into Black sea?



Russian Flagship Moskva hit by two missiles and sunk. Tor anti-missile system failed to defeat incoming missile and tug hit. Is anyone else getting the impression that Russians are putting these systems on their vessels for decoration, morale and propaganda purposes and that they are in fact pretty sh--?


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## F-22Raptor

kingQamaR said:


> Russian Flagship Moskva hit by two missiles and sunk. Tor anti-missile system failed to defeat incoming missile and tug hit. Is anyone else getting the impression that Russians are putting these systems on their vessels for decoration, morale and propaganda purposes and that they are in fact pretty sh--?




Lets just say Snake Island is one of the last places I'd want to be assigned if I was a Russian soldier, because eventually Ukraine will get around to striking it with HIMARS/M270.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

kingQamaR said:


> Russian Flagship Moskva hit by two missiles and sunk. Tor anti-missile system failed to defeat incoming missile and tug hit. Is anyone else getting the impression that Russians are putting these systems on their vessels for decoration, morale and propaganda purposes and that they are in fact pretty sh--?



There were couple of other Russian black sea fleet ships that were destroyed. Not just Moskova.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537862573726519298


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

F-22Raptor said:


> Lets just say Snake Island is one of the last places I'd want to be assigned if I was a Russian soldier, because eventually Ukraine will get around to striking it with HIMARS/M270.



Ukraine war proved that Russian equipment and Russian military is no match to Western and Turkish equipment.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> The US has only given $5.5B in military aid to Ukraine to date. This is pennies for the US. What the US has given is a very small portion of US firepower.



5 billion is pennies for the US. 5 trillion would be more like it. Hell, it takes the US only a month to print 5 trillion dollars fresh off the printing press.



Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Ukraine war proved that Russian equipment and Russian military is no match to Western and Turkish equipment.



Equipment is only a part of the equation. Americans got their arses legit handed to them by a bunch of rag tag Taliban in Afghanistan despite overwhelming advantage in equipment.



F-22Raptor said:


> Lets just say Snake Island is one of the last places I'd want to be assigned if I was a Russian soldier, because eventually Ukraine will get around to striking it with HIMARS/M270.



Ukraine cannot afford to do that. If Ukraine strikes Snake island with HIMARS / M270 then Russia strikes Kiev with Iskander and thousands of civilians in Kiev would be killed.

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## dBSPL

The increasing number of platforms of the Russian navy in the Black Sea was a concern issue for Turkiye. 

While Russia has already had numerous problems in the production of large-tonnage ships in recent years, and almost all of its modernization plans were behind schedule; There was a special effort and platform planning so that the Black Sea fleet would not be affected by this. And While the Russian navies urgently need platforms in every region, it is very difficult to transfer frigates from one navy to another.

In this respect, The erroneous doctrinal approach of the Russian Black Sea Navy in the Ukraine War and the loss of an excessively many platform, gave Turkiye a minimum of 15 years.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Alligator attack choppers hunting Kiev regime ground targets


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537750402443235328

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537866607724318722

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## dBSPL

Russian army entered Kiev


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537874218653728768

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537867009018429444

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> Within the next few weeks Ukraine will be receiving:
> 
> 12x PZH2000
> 18xM777
> 6xCaesar
> 4xHIMARS
> 6xM270s
> Over 20x M109s


Russian fanboy here are going to claim they are all destroyed within days it arrived in Ukraine. 

But then somehow what we will see is the Ukrainian using it on them in photos and videos. 

What do you expect from the Brain dead people who can't tell what's a war and what's a special military operation??


----------



## ZeGerman

jhungary said:


> Russian fanboy here are going to claim they are all destroyed within days it arrived in Ukraine.
> 
> But then somehow what we will see is the Ukrainian using it on them in photos and videos.
> 
> What do you expect from the Brain dead people who can't tell what's a war and what's a special military operation??


Nevermind the sorties and attacks are much too few to really destroy it all en route.

And on front they would spam photos of any destroyed equipment. But so far nothing….while we do see ukranians using these weapons already…

I cant wait for the equipment to build up in numbers. Very interesting to watch the cherson front


----------



## jhungary

ZeGerman said:


> Nevermind the sorties and attacks are much too few to really destroy it all en route.
> 
> And on front they would spam photos of any destroyed equipment. But so far nothing….while we do see ukranians using these weapons already…
> 
> I cant wait for the equipment to build up in numbers. Very interesting to watch the cherson front


well, you don't need to be a military genius to know those equipment (MLRS, Towed Howitzer and so on) are going to be priority in moving into the Frontline, it *WOULD HAVE BEEN CONSTANTLY ON THE MOVE*. The chance of these item being stop and stashed in a storage somewhere in Ukraine waiting for them to be destroyed by Russian missile strike is virtually zero.


----------



## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> Russian fanboy here are going to claim they are all destroyed within days it arrived in Ukraine.
> 
> But then somehow what we will see is the Ukrainian using it on them in photos and videos.
> 
> What do you expect from the Brain dead people who can't tell what's a war and what's a special military operation??



The 18 Krab howitzers from Poland are already making a big difference on the eastern front.


----------



## ZeGerman

Ukraine update: How did Kherson fall so quickly? Betrayal looks like a good bet


With Russians conceding their humiliating loss at the Battle for Kyiv, there is a massive artillery barrage to cover for … something. A retreat? A reconfiguration? We don’t know. Lots of fog of war right now, and we can’t trust anything Russia claims....




m.dailykos.com





They still have to hang some traitors that gave away kherson to the russians….if only they blew the bridges and mounted a defence….


----------



## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> The 18 Krab howitzers from Poland are already making a big difference on the eastern front.


Every little bit help.

The situation as I can see is, we probably need to start leasing our production line in NATO and produce Ukrainian Equipment for them, too many second hand platform may be a problem for maintenance in the future, right now they need everything they can to defend against Russia, which make sense sending our stuff, but instead of moving our stuff from storage and send it to them, maybe we should produce Ukrainian Tank and Artillery pieces for the Ukrainian.

But that is probably a long run issue, like 3 to 6 months down the road.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537879087154229248

US confirms the Russian ship was hit with Harpoon

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Equipment is only a part of the equation. Americans got their arses legit handed to them by a bunch of rag tag Taliban in Afghanistan despite overwhelming advantage in equipment.



Both Taliban and ISIS work for the US. You need to learn a lot about how things work.

Its called ruling through chaos.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537779633055223810

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537782061863428104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537783476308652040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537787196517777408

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537807538120544262

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513005695620190208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513005701706121216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513005706756038659

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513005711613054977

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513005717086609415


https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1513005723159998464

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537878183072219137

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513005730449682435

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513005732953686016

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537782284815937536

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537903469461315586

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537891075959816199

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537888723601268736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537884640106532870


----------



## F-22Raptor

The Ukrainians are closing in on Izyum. The Russians do a s**t job of protecting their flanks.

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## K_Bin_W

Tai Hai Chen said:


> If America fights Russia then America has no more energy to fight China.


If Amreeka fights Ruissia it will be a miracle if Amreeka survives let alone take on China.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> The Ukrainians are closing in on Izyum. The Russians do a s**t job of protecting their flanks.



Kiev regime has no chance near Izyum.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537918475296919552


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537884460279947266

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537919759676628992

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537922842515279872


----------



## _Nabil_

Russian region says Lithuania will curb imports, exports by rail


Lithuania has told the Russian region of Kaliningrad that it will block the import and export of a large number of goods by rail because of Western sanctions, the regional governor said on Friday.




www.reuters.com


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537932882726879239

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537905108700147712

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537918475296919552



50% of Ukrainian army including their equipment is gone. Propaganda is not going to win for you. The Ukrainians are taking a beating in the battle-field.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537872471810097152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537913694809563137

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537777793450270723

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> The Ukrainians are closing in on Izyum. The Russians do a s**t job of protecting their flanks.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537952488522862605

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537944720873115648

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Some think Boris Johnson's trips to Ukraine is helping them out, but it seems he is avoiding accountability at home. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537813992420302848

Meanwhile, China is beating some of the Western sanctions against Russia by supplying spare parts to Russian airlines. This is what multi-polar world means. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537713776321040384

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537821021058760704

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537821062666362880

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537938894791901185

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537479086909579267

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## gambit

K_Bin_W said:


> If Amreeka fights Ruissia it will be a miracle if Amreeka survives let alone take on China.


The VKS have proven to be a shiddy air force. If the US fight Russia, US airpower *WILL*, not can, remove the VKS from the air, then grind the Russian Army into fertilizers like we did to the Iraqi Army.

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 17​Jun 17, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF

*Kateryna Stepanenko, Mason Clark, George Barros, and Grace Mappes
June 17, 7:00 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Russian forces are continuing to deploy additional forces to support offensive operations in the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area, and Ukrainian defenses remain strong. *Ukrainian Defense Ministry Spokesperson Oleksandr Motuzyanyk reported that Russian forces are transferring tanks, armored personnel carriers, engineering equipment, and vehicles from Svatove, along the Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) in Luhansk Oblast, to Starobilsk, just 40 km east of Severodonetsk.[1] Social media users reported that Russian forces are likely redeploying equipment from northern Kharkiv Oblast to Donbas and published footage of Russian heavy artillery arriving by rail in Stary Osokol, Belgorod Oblast on June 17.[2] UK Chief of Defense Tony Radakin stated that Russian forces are “diminishing” in power by committing large quantities of personnel and equipment for incremental gains in one area.[3] The Russian military has concentrated the vast majority of its available combat power to capture Severodonetsk and Lysychansk at the expense of other axes of advance and is suffering heavy casualties to do so.
*Russian President Vladimir Putin declared that Russian forces will attack Ukrainian positions near Donetsk City but reiterated that the new tactic will require additional time during his address at the St. Petersburg Economic Forum on June 17.[4] *Putin stated that Russian forces will stop what he claimed is Ukrainian shelling of Donetsk City by attacking Ukrainian fortifications from the rear. Putin may have amplified reports of shelling of civilian areas of Donetsk City, which Ukrainian officials have denied, to discourage Western officials from supplying weapons to Ukraine.[5] Putin also declared that Russian forces will fully complete the “special military operation” in Ukraine, and noted that Russian and proxy forces will intensify counter-battery combat.[6] Putin urged Russian forces to refrain from entirely destroying cities that they aim to “liberate," ignoring the destruction Russian forces have inflicted on Ukrainian cities and the artillery-heavy tactics Russian forces are currently employing in Severodonetsk.”[7]
*Unconfirmed Ukrainian sources report that the Kremlin fired the Commander of the Russian Airborne Forces, Colonel-General Andrey Serdyukov, due to mass casualties among Russian paratroopers.* Odesa Oblast Military-Civil Administration Spokesperson Serhiy Bratchuk reported that the Kremlin appointed the current chief of staff of the Central Military District, Colonel-General Mikhail Teplinsky, as Serdyukov’s replacement and named the Deputy Commander of the Russian Airborne Forces, Lieutenant General Anatoly Kontsevoi, as the First Deputy Chief of Staff of the Russian Airborne Forces.[8][9] ISW cannot independently confirm these claims or Serdyukov’s exact role in the invasion of Ukraine, but they, if true, would indicate that Serdyukov is being held responsible for the poor performance of and high casualties among Russian VDV units, particularly in early operations around Kyiv. Continued dismissals and possible internal purges of senior Russian officers will likely further degrade poor Russian command and control capabilities and the confidence of Russian officers.
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces continued to launch unsuccessful ground assaults against Severodonetsk and its southeastern outskirts on June 17.*
*Russian forces continued efforts to sever Ukrainian lines of communication to Lysychansk, both from the north toward Slovyansk and in the south near Bakhmut.*
*Ukrainian forces are likely conducting a counteroffensive northwest of Izyum intended to draw Russian forces away from offensive operations toward Slovyansk and disrupt Russian supply lines and are making minor gains.*
*Ukrainian forces and aviation continued to strike Russian logistics and fortifications in occupied settlements along the Southern Axis, with localized fighting ongoing.*
*Russian forces continued to regroup and transfer personnel within Zaporizhia Oblast to maintain defensive positions along the frontline.*
*Russian President Putin reaffirmed his commitment to “completing” the Russian operation in Ukraine but acknowledged that unspecified new Russian tactics (which are likely simply explanations for poor Russian performance) will take time.*
*Unconfirmed Ukrainian sources reported that the Kremlin fired the commander of the Russian Airborne Forces, Colonel-General Andrey Serdyukov, due to poor performance.*
* 


We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued to launch unsuccessful ground assaults against Severodonetsk and its southeastern outskirts on June 17. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian assaults on Syrotyne and Metolkine, just southeast of Severodonetsk.[10] Russian forces are reportedly deploying additional artillery systems and troops to support offensive operations in Severodonetsk.[11] Ukrainian parliamentary representative and military commentator Dmytro Snyegiryev stated on June 17 that Russian forces already have seven battalion tactical groups (BTGs) in Severodonetsk and recently introduced two reserve BTGs to the area, but ISW cannot independently verify Snyegiryev’s claims or the timeframe of his statement.[12] Ukrainian Defense Ministry Spokesperson Oleksandr Motuzyanyk added that Ukrainian forces continue to retain positions at the Azot Chemical Plant in the southeastern part of Severodonetsk.[13] Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai reported that Russian forces are attacking Toshkivka, likely in an effort to secure positions on the western bank of the Siverskyi Donets River.[14]



Russian forces continued to attack settlements along the Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Lysychansk. Russian forces launched an unsuccessful assault on Zolote, near the T1303 Hirske-Lysychansk highway, and are likely attempting to encircle Ukrainian forces in the area.[15] Ukrainian forces also reportedly repelled Russian assaults on Berestove, Nyrokove, and Vasylivka along the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway and Kodema, approximately 14km south of Bakhmut.[16] Russian forces committed additional two battalions of the 1st and 2nd Army Corps (the armed forces of the DNR and LNR) and are continuing to regroup troops to continue assaults along the T1303 highway.[17] Russian forces may also be attempting to resume river crossings southeast of Lyman to disrupt Ukrainian GLOCs around Siversk. Motuzyanuk stated that Russian forces are preparing to cross the Siverskiy Donets and are shelling settlements southeast of Lyman.[18] Geolocated footage showed that Ukrainian Special Operation Forces destroyed a Russian pontoon bridge near Bilohorivka (approximately 13km south of Kreminna) on June 16. Russian forces previously suffered significant losses during a failed river crossing attempt near Bilohorivka in early May.[19]
Russian forces unsuccessfully attempted to advance north of Slovyansk and southeast of Izyum on June 17. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces failed to seize Bohorodychne (approximately 25 km southeast of Izyum) and retreated to previously occupied positions.[20] Russian forces also conducted unsuccessful reconnaissance-in-force operations near Krasnopillia, located along the E40 highway to Slovyansk.[21] Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensives southwest of Izyum and pushed Russian forces out of Dmytrivka.[22]



*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces engaged in clashes north and northeast of Kharkiv City to push Ukrainian forces away from the international border on June 17. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces conducted unsuccessful reconnaissance-in-force operations in Kochubiyika, just west of the Kharkiv City-Belgorod highway.[23] Ukrainian Defense Ministry Spokesperson Oleksandr Motuzyanyk stated that Russian forces are regrouping troops and conducting air reconnaissance in settlements within a 40 km range northeast of Kharkiv City in preparation to resume offensive operations in Ternova-Rubizhne area.[24] Social media footage also showed mobilized Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republic (DNR and LNR) servicemen operating just east of Ternova and Rubizhne, who are likely defending Russian-occupied positions along the border.[25]
Ukrainian and Russian sources are increasingly reporting on the possibility of Ukrainian counteroffensives toward Izyum from Kharkiv City’s southeastern outskirts.[26] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are defending rear positions to halt any Ukrainian advances toward Izyum from Kharkiv City.[27] Pro-Russian Telegram channel Rybar noted that Ukrainian forces are actively attempting to disrupt Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum.[28] Kharkiv Oblast Administration Head Oleg Synegubov reported that Russian artillery continues to fire at Chuhuiv, approximately 35 km southeast of Kharkiv City.[29] These Ukrainian operations are likely intended to draw Russian forces away from offensive operations toward Slovyansk and disrupt Russian supply lines.



*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Ukrainian forces and aviation continued to strike Russian logistics and fortifications in occupied settlements along the Southern Axis. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian aviation struck Russian positions in Kherson City, Kakhovka, and Bersylav districts situated at least 45 km southeast of the line of contact on the Kherson-Mykolaiv Oblast border.[30] Geolocated footage also shows that Ukrainian forces previously destroyed a Russian ammunition depot and equipment repair center in Nova Kakhovka (just southwest of Kakhovka) on June 14.[31] Pro-Russian Telegram channel Rybar reported that Ukrainian Su-25 jet aircraft struck Russian positions in occupied Snihurivka, approximately 65 km east of Mykolaiv City, but ISW cannot independently verify this claim.[32] Ukrainian forces destroyed Russia’s Black Sea Fleet “Vasily Bekh” tugboat as it delivered ammunition, weapons, and personnel to Snake Island off the Romanian coast despite the presence of Russian air-defense systems on the island.[33] Russian forces continued to fire at Ukrainian forces along the entire Kherson-Mykolaiv Oblast border, likely to deter Ukrainian counterattacks in the area.[34] The ability of Ukrainian ground-attack aircraft (as opposed to air-to-ground missiles fired from outside Russian-controlled airspace) to strike targets up to 45 km behind the Russian front lines indicates that previous Russian efforts to reinforce air defenses around Kherson have not been fully effective.
Russian forces continued to regroup and transfer personnel within Zaporizhia Oblast to maintain defensive positions along the frontline.[35] Ukraine’s Zaporizhia Oblast Military Administration reported that Russian forces are concentrating troops in the Vasylivka and Polohy areas, 45 km south and 90 km southeast of Zaporizhia Oblast, respectfully.[36] Russian forces reportedly relocated some elements from other settlements in Zaporizhia Oblast to Melitopol and are planning to move additional units to the city from the Enerhodar area.[37] The Zaporizhia Oblast Military Administration also noted that there are no indications that Russian forces intend to conduct offensive operations against Orihiv or Huliaipole (both settlements north of the frontline) in the near future. Russian forces likely lack the manpower to resume ground offensives in Zaporizhia Oblast and are likely reinforcing their frontline positions to defend against possible Ukrainian counterattacks.



*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian President Vladimir Putin implied that Russian-occupied settlements will hold referendums to join Russia during his address to the St. Petersburg Economic Forum on June 17.[38] Putin said that Russian-occupied settlements will determine their own future and that the Kremlin will “respect any of their choices.” Putin also blamed Ukraine for threatening a food crisis in Africa and the Middle East, claiming that Ukrainian forces placed mines around ports and stopped grain exports.[39] However, the Zaporizhia Oblast Military Administration reported spotting another ten Russian trucks filled with Ukrainian grain heading from Melitopol to Crimea on June 16.[40]

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## gambit

Tai Hai Chen said:


> J-20 would whip F-16 in the air. Chinese air and sea blockade would cause massive famine in Taiwan starving millions of Taiwanese to death.


No. The J-20 will be detected and shot out of the sky. Then Taiwanese defense will sink PLAN invasion ships.






J-20 fighters now in every Chinese Theatre Commands, overtaking F 22 in numbers soon, making it the world's largest fifth-generation fighter force


You won't just have to fight the Yankees: you have territorial disputes with 23 countries including your 14 land neighbours... Once you attack one, all will imply because they know their asses are on the line of your tyrant. Are you high on something? territorial disputes with 23 countries...



defence.pk

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537959943180996608

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## RescueRanger

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537479086909579267


That video makes no sense what so ever.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537929243975294978

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537893568680894464

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## khansaheeb

gambit said:


> The VKS have proven to be a shiddy air force. If the US fight Russia, US airpower *WILL*, not can, remove the VKS from the air, then grind the Russian Army into fertilizers like we did to the Iraqi Army.


OK employ a no fly zone then talk.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537923159709478912

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537978003157753857

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537978053170585601

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## Hassan Al-Somal

TruthSeeker said:


> RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 17​Jun 17, 2022 - Press ISW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Download the PDF
> 
> *Kateryna Stepanenko, Mason Clark, George Barros, and Grace Mappes
> June 17, 7:00 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
> Russian forces are continuing to deploy additional forces to support offensive operations in the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area, and Ukrainian defenses remain strong. *Ukrainian Defense Ministry Spokesperson Oleksandr Motuzyanyk reported that Russian forces are transferring tanks, armored personnel carriers, engineering equipment, and vehicles from Svatove, along the Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) in Luhansk Oblast, to Starobilsk, just 40 km east of Severodonetsk.[1] Social media users reported that Russian forces are likely redeploying equipment from northern Kharkiv Oblast to Donbas and published footage of Russian heavy artillery arriving by rail in Stary Osokol, Belgorod Oblast on June 17.[2] UK Chief of Defense Tony Radakin stated that Russian forces are “diminishing” in power by committing large quantities of personnel and equipment for incremental gains in one area.[3] The Russian military has concentrated the vast majority of its available combat power to capture Severodonetsk and Lysychansk at the expense of other axes of advance and is suffering heavy casualties to do so.
> *Russian President Vladimir Putin declared that Russian forces will attack Ukrainian positions near Donetsk City but reiterated that the new tactic will require additional time during his address at the St. Petersburg Economic Forum on June 17.[4] *Putin stated that Russian forces will stop what he claimed is Ukrainian shelling of Donetsk City by attacking Ukrainian fortifications from the rear. Putin may have amplified reports of shelling of civilian areas of Donetsk City, which Ukrainian officials have denied, to discourage Western officials from supplying weapons to Ukraine.[5] Putin also declared that Russian forces will fully complete the “special military operation” in Ukraine, and noted that Russian and proxy forces will intensify counter-battery combat.[6] Putin urged Russian forces to refrain from entirely destroying cities that they aim to “liberate," ignoring the destruction Russian forces have inflicted on Ukrainian cities and the artillery-heavy tactics Russian forces are currently employing in Severodonetsk.”[7]
> *Unconfirmed Ukrainian sources report that the Kremlin fired the Commander of the Russian Airborne Forces, Colonel-General Andrey Serdyukov, due to mass casualties among Russian paratroopers.* Odesa Oblast Military-Civil Administration Spokesperson Serhiy Bratchuk reported that the Kremlin appointed the current chief of staff of the Central Military District, Colonel-General Mikhail Teplinsky, as Serdyukov’s replacement and named the Deputy Commander of the Russian Airborne Forces, Lieutenant General Anatoly Kontsevoi, as the First Deputy Chief of Staff of the Russian Airborne Forces.[8][9] ISW cannot independently confirm these claims or Serdyukov’s exact role in the invasion of Ukraine, but they, if true, would indicate that Serdyukov is being held responsible for the poor performance of and high casualties among Russian VDV units, particularly in early operations around Kyiv. Continued dismissals and possible internal purges of senior Russian officers will likely further degrade poor Russian command and control capabilities and the confidence of Russian officers.
> *Key Takeaways*
> 
> *Russian forces continued to launch unsuccessful ground assaults against Severodonetsk and its southeastern outskirts on June 17.*
> *Russian forces continued efforts to sever Ukrainian lines of communication to Lysychansk, both from the north toward Slovyansk and in the south near Bakhmut.*
> *Ukrainian forces are likely conducting a counteroffensive northwest of Izyum intended to draw Russian forces away from offensive operations toward Slovyansk and disrupt Russian supply lines and are making minor gains.*
> *Ukrainian forces and aviation continued to strike Russian logistics and fortifications in occupied settlements along the Southern Axis, with localized fighting ongoing.*
> *Russian forces continued to regroup and transfer personnel within Zaporizhia Oblast to maintain defensive positions along the frontline.*
> *Russian President Putin reaffirmed his commitment to “completing” the Russian operation in Ukraine but acknowledged that unspecified new Russian tactics (which are likely simply explanations for poor Russian performance) will take time.*
> *Unconfirmed Ukrainian sources reported that the Kremlin fired the commander of the Russian Airborne Forces, Colonel-General Andrey Serdyukov, due to poor performance.*
> *
> 
> 
> We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*
> 
> Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
> Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
> Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City;
> Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis;
> Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
> *Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
> Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
> Russian forces continued to launch unsuccessful ground assaults against Severodonetsk and its southeastern outskirts on June 17. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian assaults on Syrotyne and Metolkine, just southeast of Severodonetsk.[10] Russian forces are reportedly deploying additional artillery systems and troops to support offensive operations in Severodonetsk.[11] Ukrainian parliamentary representative and military commentator Dmytro Snyegiryev stated on June 17 that Russian forces already have seven battalion tactical groups (BTGs) in Severodonetsk and recently introduced two reserve BTGs to the area, but ISW cannot independently verify Snyegiryev’s claims or the timeframe of his statement.[12] Ukrainian Defense Ministry Spokesperson Oleksandr Motuzyanyk added that Ukrainian forces continue to retain positions at the Azot Chemical Plant in the southeastern part of Severodonetsk.[13] Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai reported that Russian forces are attacking Toshkivka, likely in an effort to secure positions on the western bank of the Siverskyi Donets River.[14]
> 
> 
> 
> Russian forces continued to attack settlements along the Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Lysychansk. Russian forces launched an unsuccessful assault on Zolote, near the T1303 Hirske-Lysychansk highway, and are likely attempting to encircle Ukrainian forces in the area.[15] Ukrainian forces also reportedly repelled Russian assaults on Berestove, Nyrokove, and Vasylivka along the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway and Kodema, approximately 14km south of Bakhmut.[16] Russian forces committed additional two battalions of the 1st and 2nd Army Corps (the armed forces of the DNR and LNR) and are continuing to regroup troops to continue assaults along the T1303 highway.[17] Russian forces may also be attempting to resume river crossings southeast of Lyman to disrupt Ukrainian GLOCs around Siversk. Motuzyanuk stated that Russian forces are preparing to cross the Siverskiy Donets and are shelling settlements southeast of Lyman.[18] Geolocated footage showed that Ukrainian Special Operation Forces destroyed a Russian pontoon bridge near Bilohorivka (approximately 13km south of Kreminna) on June 16. Russian forces previously suffered significant losses during a failed river crossing attempt near Bilohorivka in early May.[19]
> Russian forces unsuccessfully attempted to advance north of Slovyansk and southeast of Izyum on June 17. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces failed to seize Bohorodychne (approximately 25 km southeast of Izyum) and retreated to previously occupied positions.[20] Russian forces also conducted unsuccessful reconnaissance-in-force operations near Krasnopillia, located along the E40 highway to Slovyansk.[21] Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensives southwest of Izyum and pushed Russian forces out of Dmytrivka.[22]
> 
> 
> 
> *Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
> Russian forces engaged in clashes north and northeast of Kharkiv City to push Ukrainian forces away from the international border on June 17. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces conducted unsuccessful reconnaissance-in-force operations in Kochubiyika, just west of the Kharkiv City-Belgorod highway.[23] Ukrainian Defense Ministry Spokesperson Oleksandr Motuzyanyk stated that Russian forces are regrouping troops and conducting air reconnaissance in settlements within a 40 km range northeast of Kharkiv City in preparation to resume offensive operations in Ternova-Rubizhne area.[24] Social media footage also showed mobilized Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republic (DNR and LNR) servicemen operating just east of Ternova and Rubizhne, who are likely defending Russian-occupied positions along the border.[25]
> Ukrainian and Russian sources are increasingly reporting on the possibility of Ukrainian counteroffensives toward Izyum from Kharkiv City’s southeastern outskirts.[26] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are defending rear positions to halt any Ukrainian advances toward Izyum from Kharkiv City.[27] Pro-Russian Telegram channel Rybar noted that Ukrainian forces are actively attempting to disrupt Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum.[28] Kharkiv Oblast Administration Head Oleg Synegubov reported that Russian artillery continues to fire at Chuhuiv, approximately 35 km southeast of Kharkiv City.[29] These Ukrainian operations are likely intended to draw Russian forces away from offensive operations toward Slovyansk and disrupt Russian supply lines.
> 
> 
> 
> *Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
> Ukrainian forces and aviation continued to strike Russian logistics and fortifications in occupied settlements along the Southern Axis. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian aviation struck Russian positions in Kherson City, Kakhovka, and Bersylav districts situated at least 45 km southeast of the line of contact on the Kherson-Mykolaiv Oblast border.[30] Geolocated footage also shows that Ukrainian forces previously destroyed a Russian ammunition depot and equipment repair center in Nova Kakhovka (just southwest of Kakhovka) on June 14.[31] Pro-Russian Telegram channel Rybar reported that Ukrainian Su-25 jet aircraft struck Russian positions in occupied Snihurivka, approximately 65 km east of Mykolaiv City, but ISW cannot independently verify this claim.[32] Ukrainian forces destroyed Russia’s Black Sea Fleet “Vasily Bekh” tugboat as it delivered ammunition, weapons, and personnel to Snake Island off the Romanian coast despite the presence of Russian air-defense systems on the island.[33] Russian forces continued to fire at Ukrainian forces along the entire Kherson-Mykolaiv Oblast border, likely to deter Ukrainian counterattacks in the area.[34] The ability of Ukrainian ground-attack aircraft (as opposed to air-to-ground missiles fired from outside Russian-controlled airspace) to strike targets up to 45 km behind the Russian front lines indicates that previous Russian efforts to reinforce air defenses around Kherson have not been fully effective.
> Russian forces continued to regroup and transfer personnel within Zaporizhia Oblast to maintain defensive positions along the frontline.[35] Ukraine’s Zaporizhia Oblast Military Administration reported that Russian forces are concentrating troops in the Vasylivka and Polohy areas, 45 km south and 90 km southeast of Zaporizhia Oblast, respectfully.[36] Russian forces reportedly relocated some elements from other settlements in Zaporizhia Oblast to Melitopol and are planning to move additional units to the city from the Enerhodar area.[37] The Zaporizhia Oblast Military Administration also noted that there are no indications that Russian forces intend to conduct offensive operations against Orihiv or Huliaipole (both settlements north of the frontline) in the near future. Russian forces likely lack the manpower to resume ground offensives in Zaporizhia Oblast and are likely reinforcing their frontline positions to defend against possible Ukrainian counterattacks.
> 
> 
> 
> *Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
> Russian President Vladimir Putin implied that Russian-occupied settlements will hold referendums to join Russia during his address to the St. Petersburg Economic Forum on June 17.[38] Putin said that Russian-occupied settlements will determine their own future and that the Kremlin will “respect any of their choices.” Putin also blamed Ukraine for threatening a food crisis in Africa and the Middle East, claiming that Ukrainian forces placed mines around ports and stopped grain exports.[39] However, the Zaporizhia Oblast Military Administration reported spotting another ten Russian trucks filled with Ukrainian grain heading from Melitopol to Crimea on June 16.[40]



Who runs the ISW?  This is all you need to know about their propaganda. 👇








F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537978003157753857
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537978053170585601





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537893568680894464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537868984061726722

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537868064938676224

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537881949187891202

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537872023627571202

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537936965529575426
ROFL

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## Type59

gambit said:


> The VKS have proven to be a shiddy air force. If the US fight Russia, US airpower *WILL*, not can, remove the VKS from the air, then grind the Russian Army into fertilizers like we did to the Iraqi Army.


Pity you can't use your "unlimited power" on cleaning up USA and regional countries.

Edit, whats the point of spending nearly 800 billion a year when average American feels unsafe in own country. Could deploy some forces to defeat gang activity.

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## K_Bin_W

gambit said:


> The VKS have proven to be a shiddy air force. If the US fight Russia, US airpower *WILL*, not can, remove the VKS from the air, then grind the Russian Army into fertilizers like we did to the Iraqi Army.


Please please do it, liberate UKr.. pretty please. LMAO...

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537995782745272321

Ukrainians getting closer to Kherson


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## F-22Raptor

Russians have fallen back to 2nd and 3rd lines of defense. Reportedly these are fresh Ukrainian forces with Polish T-72s , US M113s and other APCs. 

The Ukrainians are also pounding the Kherson airport with heavy artillery.


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## Soldier35

Russian troops launched a double missile strike with cruise missiles on military targets in Nikolaev in Ukraine






The Ukrainian army shot down its helicopter. The Ukrainian military said they shot down a Russian helicopter. But the authors of the video did not take into account that only the Ukrainian Air Force has white Mi-24s; they were used in UN humanitarian missions in the Congo. Zooming in on the camera, you can clearly see that the color of the helicopter that is shot down is white, Russian Mi-24 and Mi-35M helicopters are not painted white.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> View attachment 854786
> 
> 
> 
> Russians have fallen back to 2nd and 3rd lines of defense. Reportedly these are fresh Ukrainian forces with Polish T-72s , US M113s and other APCs.
> 
> The Ukrainians are also pounding the Kherson airport with heavy artillery.



It's a twitter offensive. It ain't real. There is no bridge that can get to Kherson. All the bridges were destroyed.

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## Gomig-21

ckf said:


> How can you differentiate volunteers vs regulars?...You can't. I can only speak for Andy Huynh's case, he's a marine who's never been in combat and is a mechanised robotic specialist. Not sure why he volunteer to fight in Ukraine or why he's in Ukraine? The other guy is a security contractor, so he's there for the money. Whatever the truth is, it doesn't matter. I don't really care either, just speculating as most American contractors would want to be paid and obviously they are being paid. How ever u framed whether they are volunteers or regulars, does it really matter?



You said they were "special forces". I was replying to that effect that nothing suggested they were special forces and that they were volunteers. Not sure where the confusion is.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538006750653100033


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## ARMalik

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537938894120816640








Unipolar world order is over, says Putin amid Ukraine war


Amid the war in Ukraine, Russian President Vladimir Putin speaking at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum (SPIEF) asserted that the era of unipolar world order was over. "A year and a half ago, when speaking at the Davos Forum, it was stressed again that the era of the unipolar...




www.wionews.com




Unipolar world order is over, says Putin​

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537796235624689665

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537795955776536577

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537795684673413121

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## sammuel

F-22Raptor said:


> Within the next few weeks Ukraine will be receiving:
> 
> 12x PZH2000
> 18xM777
> 6xCaesar
> 4xHIMARS
> 6xM270s
> Over 20x M109s



8 x Zuzana 2 









Slovakia to deliver eight Zuzana 2 howitzers to Ukraine, says ministry


Slovakia will deliver eight self-propelled Zuzana 2 howitzers to Ukraine under a commercial contract which a state-controlled producer signed, the Slovak Defence Ministry said on Thursday.




www.reuters.com





~


----------



## Viet

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537695930845212672
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537756631827628032


That just shows how Russia is vulnerable its gas infra is built by German companies. Without maintenance, spare parts, those pipelines infra will fall apart.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537433504057020417

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## Viet

that’s a massive support. UK will train 10,000 men of Ukraine army to western standard - every 3 months. The Russians will face the British army in Ukraine.

That could change the equation of the war.

- Boris Johnson





Boris Johnson and Volodymyr Zelensky. (Source: Associated Press)










Ukraine gets possible path to EU, aid pledges from Britain


British Prime Minister Boris Johnson met with President Volodymyr Zelensky in Kyiv to offer continued aid and military training.




www.1news.co.nz

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

One less Kiev regime tank to terrorize Donbas children.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537982103026946048


Viet said:


> that’s a massive support. UK will train 10,000 men of Ukraine army to western standard - every 3 months. The Russians will face the British army in Ukraine.
> 
> That could change the equation of the war.
> 
> - Boris Johnson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Boris Johnson and Volodymyr Zelensky. (Source: Associated Press)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine gets possible path to EU, aid pledges from Britain
> 
> 
> British Prime Minister Boris Johnson met with President Volodymyr Zelensky in Kyiv to offer continued aid and military training.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.1news.co.nz



Better train 10 million Ukrainian men. Those guys have nothing better to do anyway.



Viet said:


> That just shows how Russia is vulnerable its gas infra is built by German companies. Without maintenance, spare parts, those pipelines infra will fall apart.



China provides Russia with all the spare parts.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Kiev regime Mi-24 in UN markings hit and destroyed


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537959058606465030

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## StraightEdge

Ukraine army torturing their own civilians - 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518041308912365568
Check the entire thread of such violence and torture.

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## jhungary

StraightEdge said:


> Ukraine army torturing their own civilians -
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518041308912365568
> Check the entire thread of such violence and torture.


That was talked about since the beginning of the war.









Ukraine citizens tie alleged looter to pole with pants down as punishment


Multiple videos and pictures have begun appearing on social media of alleged looters being tied up following Russia's invasion.




www.newsweek.com





This is practiced on Looter who loot stuff, people tied these people up on a pole then take off their pants to humiliate them for looting. and they are tied till the Police come take them up.

If I have to say, this is a lot more humane as because if you loot in LNR and DPR, they will just shoot you. Well, maybe Ukrainian should do the same.


----------



## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537433504057020417



While you watch and cheer Putin your people are starving :


Somalia faces grim humanitarian catastrophe​
The war in Ukraine is worsening food insecurity in East Africa after a devastating locust invasion, the COVID-19 pandemic, and the ongoing drought. In Somalia alone, 6 million people are food insecure.









Somalia faces grim humanitarian catastrophe – DW – 06/17/2022


The war in Ukraine is worsening food insecurity in East Africa after a devastating locust invasion, the COVID-19 pandemic, and the ongoing drought. In Somalia alone, 6 million people are food insecure.




www.dw.com





‘Marching towards starvation’: UN warns of hell on earth if Ukraine war goes on​Unprecedented food shortages could spark riots in dozens of countries as Black Sea blockade adds to pressures, says WFP chief









‘Marching towards starvation’: UN warns of hell on earth if Ukraine war goes on


Unprecedented food shortages could spark riots in dozens of countries as Black Sea blockade adds to pressures, says WFP chief




www.theguardian.com





*'Widen gaze from Ukraine' to avert famine in Somalia, U.N. agency warns*







The world must “widen its gaze from the war in Ukraine” to prevent Somalia sliding into famine, the United Nations’ children’s agency said on Tuesday, warning only a third of the $250 million needed to stave off catastrophe had so far been raised.

Four consecutive rainy seasons have failed in the Horn of Africa – the worst drought spell in more than 40 years – and a fifth in October-December also looks likely to do so.

Drought has combined with a global rise in food and fuel prices, pushed up by the war in Ukraine, to hit millions across the continent, putting food staples out of reach for poor families and killing crops and livestock.

“If the world does not widen its gaze from the war in Ukraine and act immediately, an explosion of child death is about to happen in the Horn of Africa,” Rania Dagash, deputy regional director of UNICEF, told a briefing.

Somalia has 386,000 children in urgent need of treatment for life-threatening malnutrition, numbers that are already higher than the 340,000 children who needed treatment in 2011, a year when famine killed hundreds of thousands of people, she said.

Donor funding has been generous but falls short of the $250 million needed, Dagash said.

“We have just a third of what we need this year. Our call to the international community, led by the G7 who will be meeting in Germany in a few weeks, needs to commit new, additional funding to save lives,” she said.

Etienne Peterschmitt, Representative in Somalia for the Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO), another U.N. agency, said millions were malnourished and 213,000 people were in the most critical category, facing extreme lack of food.

Drought had dried up pastures and pushed up the price of food and water, he said. Around 3 million livestock have died since last year due to drought and disease. The southern Bay region was of particular concern.

Somalia is “on the brink of devastating and widespread hunger, starvation and death”, he said, adding it was a “perfect storm for famine if action is not taken now”.

Malnutrition made children more vulnerable to disease and forced destitute families to travel long distances on foot for treatment, Dagash said, citing an example of a pregnant woman walking 120 km (75 miles) for treatment for her 1-year-old twin boys.

“I’ve heard of children being buried along the roadside as their families make the desperate long trek to seek help.”









'Widen gaze from Ukraine' to avert famine in Somalia, U.N. agency warns


LONDON – The world must “widen




www.euronews.com

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538093092665974784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538093624285704192

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## Paul2

StraightEdge said:


> Ukraine army torturing their own civilians -
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518041308912365568
> Check the entire thread of such violence and torture.


These are communists


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538095907819859970


----------



## kingQamaR

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537959058606465030



the Russians have lost so many tanks in Ukraine that they have resorted to pulling T-62M and T-62MV tanks out of storage, presumably to equip low-priority units in Ukraine


----------



## F-22Raptor

kingQamaR said:


> the Russians have lost so many tanks in Ukraine that they have resorted to pulling T-62M and T-62MV tanks out of storage, presumably to equip low-priority units in Ukraine



Actually T-62s were spotted yesterday near Popasna. I wouldn’t call that a low priority front.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> One less Kiev regime tank to terrorize Donbas children.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537982103026946048
> 
> 
> Better train 10 million Ukrainian men. Those guys have nothing better to do anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> China provides Russia with all the spare parts.


No need to. Ukraine can increase the troop to one million from the current 700,000. Learning from the British is best, their army is most professional army in the world. Even the German army has big respect. Vietnamese resistance army once fought them in the aftermath of WW2. We had zero chance.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Viet said:


> No need to. Ukraine can increase the troop to one million from the current 700,000. Learning from the British is best, their army is most professional army in the world. Even the German army has big respect.



Ukraine literally has hundreds of thousands of volunteers still to be trained. Manpower is not an issue.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> These are communists


looter....i dont know which's worst tho.

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## F-22Raptor



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## kingQamaR

Viet said:


> No need to. Ukraine can increase the troop to one million from the current 700,000. Learning from the British is best, their army is most professional army in the world. Even the German army has big respect. Vietnamese resistance army once fought them in the aftermath of WW2. We had zero chance.



500 tanks is more then the UK and Germany have combined Zelensky demands are getting so insane soon he will want the entire US nuclear arsenal

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## F-22Raptor

kingQamaR said:


> 500 tanks is more then the UK and Germany have combined Zelensky demands are getting so insane soon he will want the entire US nuclear arsenal



I still remember the 500 Javelins per day silliness. Official Ukrainian requests with the US DOD are completely different from Twitter requests.


----------



## gambit

leviathan said:


> hmm...Yes...hmmm...not only that...Taiwanese marine will take beijing in a weeeeek.


Can you dispute with a technical argument? How about the fact that the F-35 is now an Aggressor providing US and allied air forces realistic training tactics against low radar observable threats? Still think your J-20 have any chance of surviving?

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## kingQamaR

F-22Raptor said:


> I still remember the 500 Javelins per day silliness. Official Ukrainian requests with the US DOD are completely different from Twitter requests.



The UK and USA exhausted its entire arsenal of shoulder launched missiles in this pandering idiocy so far, when will this end.



gambit said:


> Can you dispute with a technical argument? How about the fact that the F-35 is now an Aggressor providing US and allied air forces realistic training tactics against low radar observable threats? Still think your J-20 have any chance of surviving?



It is a big, physically attractive aircraft, with entirely unknown real-world capabilities.

On pape J20 , it looks like a stealthy wide-area defensive aircraft — like a MiG 31 in operational concept, without the gigantic speed of the MiG, but with some limited multi-role abilities.

No one really knows anything at all about it yet


----------



## F-22Raptor

kingQamaR said:


> The UK and USA exhausted its entire arsenal of shoulder launched missiles in this pandering idiocy so far, when will this end.
> 
> 
> 
> It is a big, physically attractive aircraft, with entirely unknown real-world capabilities.
> 
> On pape J20 , it looks like a stealthy wide-area defensive aircraft — like a MiG 31 in operational concept, without the gigantic speed of the MiG, but with some limited multi-role abilities.
> 
> No one really knows anything at all about it yet




The US sent about a third of its Javelin arsenal. They’ve sent 6,500. The US inventory was over 20,000. 

Lockheed is doubling its production to 4,000 Javelins per year.

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> The UK and USA exhausted its entire arsenal of shoulder launched missiles in this pandering idiocy so far, when will this end.
> 
> 
> 
> It is a big, physically attractive aircraft, with entirely unknown real-world capabilities.
> 
> On pape J20 , it looks like a stealthy wide-area defensive aircraft — like a MiG 31 in operational concept, without the gigantic speed of the MiG, but with some limited multi-role abilities.
> 
> No one really knows anything at all about it yet


US never sent "Their entire arsenal" of anything to anyone, they can't because of Conventional Arms Transfer Policy, which limited item transfer that would harm US National Security.









Conventional Arms Transfer Policy - United States Department of State


In addition to undertaking a legal review of each proposed arms transfer and third party transfers, PM/RSAT also applies the Conventional Arms Transfer Policy laid out in National Security Presidential Memorandum (NSPM-10, issued April 19, 2018 ) prior to making a determination. The policy...




www.state.gov





they can't transfer arms that will burden US or allied defence capability, which mean the "Transferring its entire arsenal" will never happened.

US gave approximately 5500 Javelin missile with around 120 CLU (you need to pair a Javelin Missile with a CLU to launch) to Ukraine with all the previous aid package. The National Stock for Javelin Missile is about 50,000 missile and 12,000 CLU (estimated from NSN number assigned to those weapon)

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## ZeGerman

Type59 said:


> Pity you can't use your "unlimited power" on cleaning up USA and regional countries.
> 
> Edit, whats the point of spending nearly 800 billion a year when average American feels unsafe in own country. Could deploy some forces to defeat gang activity.


Hahahaha this is a very sharp observation

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538105817022488577

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## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> US never sent "Their entire arsenal" of anything to anyone, they can't because of Conventional Arms Transfer Policy, which limited item transfer that would harm US National Security.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Conventional Arms Transfer Policy - United States Department of State
> 
> 
> In addition to undertaking a legal review of each proposed arms transfer and third party transfers, PM/RSAT also applies the Conventional Arms Transfer Policy laid out in National Security Presidential Memorandum (NSPM-10, issued April 19, 2018 ) prior to making a determination. The policy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.state.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they can't transfer arms that will burden US or allied defence capability, which mean the "Transferring its entire arsenal" will never happened.
> 
> US gave approximately 5500 Javelin missile with around 120 CLU (you need to pair a Javelin Missile with a CLU to launch) to Ukraine with all the previous aid package. The National Stock for Javelin Missile is about 50,000 missile and 12,000 CLU (estimated from NSN number assigned to those weapon)



U.S. officials have deemed reports of Javelin missile sales on the dark web as little more than further Russian disinformation. 

"We have no evidence that corroborates this claim," Eric Pahon, Pentagon Spokesman, told FOX Business. "In addition, the source cited is a known Russian propaganda and disinformation network."






US officials push back on reports of dark web javelin missiles: 'Russian disinformation' | Fox Business


The U.S. has provided Ukraine with at least 5,500 Javelin missiles, with plans to provide an additional 1,000 missiles in the newest assistance package approved this week.




www.foxbusiness.com






Also, that report going around about the Javelin on the dark web has been identified as a Russian disinformation network.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538129392001499137


----------



## _Nabil_

ZeGerman said:


> I am sure his russian masters will feed all these somali children…
> 
> Or will he beg and gladly accept western humanitarian aid again?


West Hypocrisy at its Summum!!!

You occupy, steal, loot, deculturise, impose dictators, arm and finance coups, continue stealing via IMF and WB, then give your so called humanitarian aid!!!

There is nothing human in you guys ....

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538042848406282241


----------



## kingQamaR

I think the M777 sent to Ukraine don’t have digital fire control system that NATO versions have. I might be wrong ?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Alligator attack choppers hunting Kiev regime ground targets


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538122888431149057


F-22Raptor said:


> The US sent about a third of its Javelin arsenal. They’ve sent 6,500. The US inventory was over 20,000.
> 
> Lockheed is doubling its production to 4,000 Javelins per year.



Much fewer than the number of ATGM Russia has and manufacturing.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538085251494330368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538081377320566784
Zala drone GUI


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538079242633850880

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## _Nabil_

U.S. drone sale to Ukraine hits snag


The Biden administration's plan to sell four large, armable drones to Ukraine has been paused on the fear its sophisticated surveillance equipment might fall into enemy hands, according to two people familiar with the matter.




www.reuters.com





The Biden administration's plan to sell four large, armable drones to Ukraine has been paused on the fear its sophisticated surveillance equipment might fall into enemy hands

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Alligator attack choppers hunting Kiev regime ground targets


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538114162873753602


_Nabil_ said:


> U.S. drone sale to Ukraine hits snag
> 
> 
> The Biden administration's plan to sell four large, armable drones to Ukraine has been paused on the fear its sophisticated surveillance equipment might fall into enemy hands, according to two people familiar with the matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Biden administration's plan to sell four large, armable drones to Ukraine has been paused on the fear its sophisticated surveillance equipment might fall into enemy hands



Why? Whatever tech Gray Eagle has is already present in Wing Loong 2. Russia buy Wing Loong 2 whenever they like. That tech in Gray Eagle is not some super duper tech. I think the reason the US won't sell Gray Eagle is because if it gets shot down it damages America's reputation and hurts sales. This is the same reason Germany blocked Spain from sending 40 Leopard 2 tanks to Kiev regime.

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## A.P. Richelieu

kingQamaR said:


> The UK and USA exhausted its entire arsenal of shoulder launched missiles in this pandering idiocy so far, when will this end.


Ukraine has received 15,000 AT-4s from the million produced.
The missiles from the West has destroyed a large part of the Russian tank force and many APCs and support vehicles.
This significantly reduces the threat to other countries.
The pandering idiocy by Russia will end when Russia has had enough.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> I think the M777 sent to Ukraine don’t have digital fire control system that NATO versions have. I might be wrong ?



The ones sold to Kiev regime are export downgraded and cannot fire Excalibur rounds.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Ukraine has received 15,000 AT-4s from the million produced.
> The missiles from the West has destroyed a large part of the Russian tank force and many APCs and support vehicles.
> This significantly reduces the threat to other countries.
> The pandering idiocy by Russia will end when Russia has had enough.



Tanks aren't useful in modern warfare. While AT4 is good, it is not as good as the latest RPG-32.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538162925231300608


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538162925231300608



Kiev regime has no spare parts for Su-25. The only factory that makes Su-25 engines in Ukraine was the Motor Sich factory that was cruise missiled. America should give all of America's A-10 to Ukraine.

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## Viet

kingQamaR said:


> 500 tanks is more then the UK and Germany have combined Zelensky demands are getting so insane soon he will want the entire US nuclear arsenal


Yes because Europe believes to peaceful rise shit aka Putin the European territorial defense is naked. Germany used to have thousands of Leopard tanks. But no problem German and France military complex now awaken just need to reinstate the old doctrine, the best defense is how to kill the enemy hundred times over.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538172312549216256

Russia scraping that barrel


----------



## ZeGerman

_Nabil_ said:


> West Hypocrisy at its Summum!!!
> 
> You occupy, steal, loot, deculturise, impose dictators, arm and finance coups, continue stealing via IMF and WB, then give your so called humanitarian aid!!!
> 
> There is nothing human in you guys ....


Well atleast muslims only care about muslims and see the rest of humanity as subhuman….
Same as constantly warring, invading, pirating, slaving, depopulating, headcutting all over europe, sub sahara africa, middle east. 
Very consistent…i give you that….

Between 1976 and 1987, Saudi developmental aid amounted to US$49 billion.[1] In 2006, it was reported that the country was the biggest per capita donor, though the aid had ONLY been given to Muslim countries….

So dont give me your crocodile tears….look in the mirror first.

In the meantime the west is the largest donor of humanitarian aid worldwide. Doesnt matter where and who.



sammuel said:


> This person :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Has blind hate towards US and the west , while they are the ones feeding his people in Somalia.
> 
> Take UNICEF for example , who are feeding Somalians as with speak. The top 3 top contributions come from US , Germany and the European Union.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funding to UNICEF
> 
> 
> UNICEF relies on voluntary contributions to uphold our mission of reaching every child
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.unicef.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United States he swears at , is the single largest provider of humanitarian aid to Somalia.
> 
> Without this aid thousands would starve to death.
> 
> One should not spit in the water of the well, from which he drinks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United States Announces Nearly $199 Million in additional Humanitarian Assistance for the People of Somalia | Press Release | U.S. Agency for International Development
> 
> 
> The United States, through the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) and The Department of State, is providing nearly $199 million in additional humanitarian assistance for the people of Somalia. The Somali people have faced decades of chronic food insecurity, violence, and cycles of...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.usaid.gov


And probably even living in the west. Leaching off our welfare state and social/education opportunities.

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## _Nabil_

ZeGerman said:


> Well atleast muslims only care about muslims and see the rest of humanity as subhuman….
> Same as constantly warring, invading, pirating, slaving, depopulating, headcutting all over europe, sub sahara africa, middle east.
> Very consistent…i give you that….
> 
> Between 1976 and 1987, Saudi developmental aid amounted to US$49 billion.[1] In 2006, it was reported that the country was the biggest per capita donor, though the aid had ONLY been given to Muslim countries….
> 
> So dont give me your crocodile tears….look in the mirror first.
> 
> In the meantime the west is the largest donor of humanitarian aid worldwide. Doesnt matter where and who.


What the fûck are you talking about?? Are you retarded??? I quoted you *nagging* and *bragging* about western so called humanitarian aid, and I have told you why you are giving it, so what have Islam and Muslims to do with the issue ???

Looks like Nazism still around in Germany 👍

You can put your humanitarian aid in your a$$

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538181728459755520

Another batch of 4 HIMARS will be sent to Ukraine in the next weapons package.

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## _Nabil_

sammuel said:


> This person :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Has blind hate towards US and the west , while they are the ones feeding his people in Somalia.
> 
> Take UNICEF for example , who are feeding Somalians as with speak. The top 3 top contributions come from US , Germany and the European Union.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funding to UNICEF
> 
> 
> UNICEF relies on voluntary contributions to uphold our mission of reaching every child
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.unicef.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United States he swears at , is the single largest provider of humanitarian aid to Somalia.
> 
> Without this aid thousands would starve to death.
> 
> One should not spit in the water of the well, from which he drinks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United States Announces Nearly $199 Million in additional Humanitarian Assistance for the People of Somalia | Press Release | U.S. Agency for International Development
> 
> 
> The United States, through the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) and The Department of State, is providing nearly $199 million in additional humanitarian assistance for the people of Somalia. The Somali people have faced decades of chronic food insecurity, violence, and cycles of...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.usaid.gov


🤣😂Look who is talking??? A Zionist living on billions of US arms aids to kill civilians.....


And you ask why people hate the US 😅😂🤣

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## ZeGerman

_Nabil_ said:


> What the fûck are you talking about?? Are you retarded??? I quoted you *nagging* and *bragging* about western so called humanitarian aid, and I have told you why you are giving it, so what have Islam and Muslims to do with the issue ???
> 
> Looks like Nazism still around in Germany 👍
> 
> You can put your humanitarian aid in your a$$


The west and western donors give aid cause of a human trait called empathy.

I dont expect you to understand such an alien concept. Caring for people outside your (religious) group?!
The saudis with all their oil billions certainly do not understand.

And with knowledge of our history we can very much spot the fascists of this age. Again…Please look in the mirror. 


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538181728459755520
> 
> Another batch of 4 HIMARS will be sent to Ukraine in the next weapons package.


I am very interested in what key targets they will attack coming weeks.

With help of US intelligence ofcourse.

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## F-22Raptor

For the “US is tired and worn out” crowd. This is one depot.

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## reflecthofgeismar

F-22Raptor said:


> View attachment 854988
> 
> 
> View attachment 854989
> 
> 
> View attachment 854990
> 
> 
> View attachment 854991
> 
> 
> View attachment 854993
> 
> 
> View attachment 854994
> 
> 
> For the “US is tired and worn out” crowd. This is one depot.



The Americans have 2 large depots where their battle/nearly battle machines are located.
Americans have 10 hour of maintance per month for every vehicle and 1 or even 2 yearly complete inspections.
Always the strength of Murricans, logistic and oversupply for their troops.

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## northeast

F-22Raptor said:


> View attachment 854988
> 
> 
> View attachment 854989
> 
> 
> View attachment 854990
> 
> 
> View attachment 854991
> 
> 
> View attachment 854993
> 
> 
> View attachment 854994
> 
> 
> For the “US is tired and worn out” crowd. This is one depot.


Wow,large piles of garbage. Send those garbage to ukraine,would you?

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## F-22Raptor

reflecthofgeismar said:


> The Americans have 2 large depots where their battle/nearly battle machines are located.
> Americans have 30hrs of maintance per month for every vehicle and 1 or even 2 yearly complete inspections.
> Always the strength of Murricans, logistic and oversupply for their troops.




Lol, when I said the US has sent little to Ukraine, its the truth. The US has at least 1,500 M198 howitzers not doing much these days.  

And a whole bunch of tanks:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511399603844825095

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> View attachment 854988
> 
> 
> View attachment 854989
> 
> 
> View attachment 854990
> 
> 
> View attachment 854991
> 
> 
> View attachment 854993
> 
> 
> View attachment 854994
> 
> 
> For the “US is tired and worn out” crowd. This is one depot.



All thos equipments are probably sitting there for years if not decades and look in good condition. Compare this to the total garbage that Russian reserves are.

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## Apollon

Trango Towers said:


> Belgium as run out of space weapons to send Ukraine....just saying.
> Mercs from as far as Korea Australia and USA.
> Anyways if you think Russia started building assets in the west 50 years ago that would have been 1982 the height of the cold War....seriously man??
> Regarding losing war ...I agree. Russia should not have invaded and NATO should not have encouraged Ukraine to join. Ultimately its the average poor soul on both sides of teh conflict that dies and loses. The rich old men that start wars sit calming drinking wine etc.
> Balancing Chinese power? I don't understand your question.




You show again that you have no knowledge. The USSR started building up energy grids with Germany in late 70th to 80th under German chancellor Helmut Schmidt who pushed this energy trade against heavy US interventions. It was this argument that Russia send even in worst cold war era always gas to Ger,any which was used by Merkel to justify projects with Russia. All this is destroyed now, Russia lost infrastructure and trade co nnections build in 50 years and its all gone now forever. 


Russia is ruled by complete idots who lost evry connection with Europe and balance is exactly what it mean. Xhina now dictates evrything in russia. Russia has no other powerful market as alternative. Xhina can do with them what it wants,

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## zartosht

ZeGerman said:


> I am sure his russian masters will feed all these somali children…
> 
> Or will he beg and gladly accept western humanitarian aid again?





sammuel said:


> This person :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Has blind hate towards US and the west , while they are the ones feeding his people in Somalia.
> 
> Take UNICEF for example , who are feeding Somalians as with speak. The top 3 top contributions come from US , Germany and the European Union.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funding to UNICEF
> 
> 
> UNICEF relies on voluntary contributions to uphold our mission of reaching every child
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.unicef.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United States he swears at , is the single largest provider of humanitarian aid to Somalia.
> 
> Without this aid thousands would starve to death.
> 
> One should not spit in the water of the well, from which he drinks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United States Announces Nearly $199 Million in additional Humanitarian Assistance for the People of Somalia | Press Release | U.S. Agency for International Development
> 
> 
> The United States, through the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) and The Department of State, is providing nearly $199 million in additional humanitarian assistance for the people of Somalia. The Somali people have faced decades of chronic food insecurity, violence, and cycles of...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.usaid.gov





ZeGerman said:


> Well atleast muslims only care about muslims and see the rest of humanity as subhuman….
> Same as constantly warring, invading, pirating, slaving, depopulating, headcutting all over europe, sub sahara africa, middle east.
> Very consistent…i give you that….
> 
> Between 1976 and 1987, Saudi developmental aid amounted to US$49 billion.[1] In 2006, it was reported that the country was the biggest per capita donor, though the aid had ONLY been given to Muslim countries….
> 
> So dont give me your crocodile tears….look in the mirror first.
> 
> In the meantime the west is the largest donor of humanitarian aid worldwide. Doesnt matter where and who.
> 
> 
> And probably even living in the west. Leaching off our welfare state and social/education opportunities.



When you cant argue against his points, attack his ethnicity and origin.... Zio-nazi hallmark.

Iran was exempt from the Nuremberg laws, Were considerd to be "full blooded aryans" by nazi ideology. They even sent thousands of books to Iran trying to tie german-persian history together, and even formally suggested "persia" use Iran officially offiicially as the name of their country (which literally means land of the aryans) which was already used locally by Iranians.

Despite this, we gave home to escaping poles, jews and Russians. 

you scum need to learn some humanity from Iran, and end your racism *YESTERDAY*

modern day israel most resembles nazi germany, and ironically is the favorite country of neo-nazis.... something is not right here.

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> All thos equipments are probably sitting there for years if not decades and look in good condition. Compare this to the total garbage that Russian reserves are.




Logistics and maintenance.....it matters a lot.


----------



## Trango Towers

Apollon said:


> You show again that you have no knowledge. The USSR started building up energy grids with Germany in late 70th to 80th under German chancellor Helmut Schmidt who pushed this energy trade against heavy US interventions. It was this argument that Russia send even in worst cold war era always gas to Ger,any which was used by Merkel to justify projects with Russia. All this is destroyed now, Russia lost infrastructure and trade co nnections build in 50 years and its all gone now forever.
> 
> 
> Russia is ruled by complete idots who lost evry connection with Europe and balance is exactly what it mean. Xhina now dictates evrything in russia. Russia has no other powerful market as alternative. Xhina can do with them what it wants,


OK you have PhD in everything. We stupid people are humbled by your knowledge. Have a nice day in your world

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## ZeGerman

zartosht said:


> When you cant argue against his points, attack his ethnicity and origin.... Zio-nazi hallmark.


I am not attacking his ethnicity. 
You have reading comprehension problems? 

He is full on copying russian propaganda. While thanks to their invasion thousands of somali children now face starvation. 



zartosht said:


> Iran was exempt from the Nuremberg laws, Were considerd to be "full blooded aryans" by nazi ideology. They even sent thousands of books to Iran trying to tie german-persian history together, and even formally suggested "persia" use Iran officially offiicially as the name of their country (which literally means land of the aryans) which was already used locally by Iranians.
> 
> Despite this, we gave home to escaping poles, jews and Russians.


Ah i am glad i could finally find some enpathy. 
Though reza and his son were also pushing secular views though….this shows a more tolerant state of mind compared to those pushing sharia state laws…

In a way iran regressed…


zartosht said:


> you scum need to learn some humanity from Iran, and end your racism *YESTERDAY*


Racism? Because i dont like to see starving somali children?

Because in dont like how intolerant islam is to non-believers? 

Need a dictionary?


zartosht said:


> modern day israel most resembles nazi germany, and ironically is the favorite country of neo-nazis.... something is not right here.


Israel is a lighter shade of grey compared to their neighbours…..
and palestinian population literally skyrockets….

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> View attachment 854988
> 
> 
> View attachment 854989
> 
> 
> View attachment 854990
> 
> 
> View attachment 854991
> 
> 
> View attachment 854993
> 
> 
> View attachment 854994
> 
> 
> For the “US is tired and worn out” crowd. This is one depot.


Wow that’s massive. Exactly what Ukraine needs. Making russo Nazi hunters their life harder.


----------



## zartosht

ZeGerman said:


> I am not attacking his ethnicity.
> You have reading comprehension problems?
> 
> He is full on copying russian propaganda. While thanks to their invasion thousands of somali children now face starvation.
> 
> 
> Ah i am glad i could finally find some enpathy.
> Though reza and his son were also pushing secular views though….this shows a more tolerant state of mind compared to those pushing sharia state laws…
> 
> In a way iran regressed…
> 
> Racism? Because i dont like to see starving somali children?
> 
> Because in dont like how intolerant islam is to non-believers?
> 
> Need a dictionary?
> 
> Israel is a lighter shade of grey compared to their neighbours…..
> and palestinian population literally skyrockets….



Dont play dumb. At least stand by your views.

You and your zionist ally knew exactly what u were doing, and you have been doing it not just to somalia. But any member whos ethnicity you feel beneath you. Because there is poverty in somalia, all somalians must kneel to western colonialism or starve. 

Your nothing special. Your lighter skin tone doesnt make you smarter or better then anyoneelse.

Stop bringing peoplea nationality/ethnicity when you dont like their views you wannabe ubermansch

Reactions: Like Like:
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## _Nabil_

ZeGerman said:


> The west and western donors give aid cause of a human trait called Hypocrisy*


Now your statement is correct.



ZeGerman said:


> Israel is a lighter shade of grey compared to their neighbours…..
> and palestinian population literally skyrockets….


Nazi and Zio !!! What's the hell 🤣😂

In fact nothing to be amazed of, 2 faces of the same coin .....

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Type59

ZeGerman said:


> Hahahaha this is a very sharp observation


Correct observation on my part. People voted for Trump in 2016 because of domestic of issues. Today I can imagine, what the average American thinks of the direction it's country is going.

Lastly US governments seemed to consumed with winning abroad, but then forget about its population. They should have launched a massive war against the cartels and stabilise situation in own neighborhood, but instead chosen to do half measures.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538173542315044866


----------



## khansaheeb

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537978003157753857
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537978053170585601


careless pic can cost lives.



sammuel said:


> While you watch and cheer Putin your people are starving :
> 
> 
> Somalia faces grim humanitarian catastrophe​
> The war in Ukraine is worsening food insecurity in East Africa after a devastating locust invasion, the COVID-19 pandemic, and the ongoing drought. In Somalia alone, 6 million people are food insecure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Somalia faces grim humanitarian catastrophe – DW – 06/17/2022
> 
> 
> The war in Ukraine is worsening food insecurity in East Africa after a devastating locust invasion, the COVID-19 pandemic, and the ongoing drought. In Somalia alone, 6 million people are food insecure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dw.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Marching towards starvation’: UN warns of hell on earth if Ukraine war goes on​Unprecedented food shortages could spark riots in dozens of countries as Black Sea blockade adds to pressures, says WFP chief
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Marching towards starvation’: UN warns of hell on earth if Ukraine war goes on
> 
> 
> Unprecedented food shortages could spark riots in dozens of countries as Black Sea blockade adds to pressures, says WFP chief
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *'Widen gaze from Ukraine' to avert famine in Somalia, U.N. agency warns*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world must “widen its gaze from the war in Ukraine” to prevent Somalia sliding into famine, the United Nations’ children’s agency said on Tuesday, warning only a third of the $250 million needed to stave off catastrophe had so far been raised.
> 
> Four consecutive rainy seasons have failed in the Horn of Africa – the worst drought spell in more than 40 years – and a fifth in October-December also looks likely to do so.
> 
> Drought has combined with a global rise in food and fuel prices, pushed up by the war in Ukraine, to hit millions across the continent, putting food staples out of reach for poor families and killing crops and livestock.
> 
> “If the world does not widen its gaze from the war in Ukraine and act immediately, an explosion of child death is about to happen in the Horn of Africa,” Rania Dagash, deputy regional director of UNICEF, told a briefing.
> 
> Somalia has 386,000 children in urgent need of treatment for life-threatening malnutrition, numbers that are already higher than the 340,000 children who needed treatment in 2011, a year when famine killed hundreds of thousands of people, she said.
> 
> Donor funding has been generous but falls short of the $250 million needed, Dagash said.
> 
> “We have just a third of what we need this year. Our call to the international community, led by the G7 who will be meeting in Germany in a few weeks, needs to commit new, additional funding to save lives,” she said.
> 
> Etienne Peterschmitt, Representative in Somalia for the Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO), another U.N. agency, said millions were malnourished and 213,000 people were in the most critical category, facing extreme lack of food.
> 
> Drought had dried up pastures and pushed up the price of food and water, he said. Around 3 million livestock have died since last year due to drought and disease. The southern Bay region was of particular concern.
> 
> Somalia is “on the brink of devastating and widespread hunger, starvation and death”, he said, adding it was a “perfect storm for famine if action is not taken now”.
> 
> Malnutrition made children more vulnerable to disease and forced destitute families to travel long distances on foot for treatment, Dagash said, citing an example of a pregnant woman walking 120 km (75 miles) for treatment for her 1-year-old twin boys.
> 
> “I’ve heard of children being buried along the roadside as their families make the desperate long trek to seek help.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Widen gaze from Ukraine' to avert famine in Somalia, U.N. agency warns
> 
> 
> LONDON – The world must “widen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.euronews.com













‘Marching towards starvation’: UN warns of hell on earth if Ukraine war goes on


Unprecedented food shortages could spark riots in dozens of countries as Black Sea blockade adds to pressures, says WFP chief




www.theguardian.com





Global development



‘Marching towards starvation’: UN warns of hell on earth if Ukraine war goes on​Unprecedented food shortages could spark riots in dozens of countries as Black Sea blockade adds to pressures, says WFP chief




Sri Lankans bang pans in a protest in Colombo at the economic crisis. Food, fuel and medicine have been in short supply for months. Photograph: Chamila Karunarathne/EPA

Global development is supported by



About this content
Fred Harter in Addis Ababa
Fri 17 Jun 2022 09.59 EDT


Dozens of countries risk protests, riots and political violence this year as food prices surge around the world, the head of the food-aid branch of the United Nations has warned.
Speaking in Ethiopia’s capital, Addis Ababa, on Thursday, David Beasley, director of the UN World Food Programme (WFP), said the world faced “frightening” shortages that could destabilise countries that depend on wheat exports from Ukraine and Russia.

“Even before the Ukraine crisis, we were facing an unprecedented global food crisis because of Covid and fuel price increases,” said Beasley. “Then, we thought it couldn’t get any worse, but this war has been devastating.”
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Ukraine grows enough food every year to feed 400 million people. It produces 42% of the world’s sunflower oil, 16% of its maize and 9% of its wheat. Somalia relies on Ukraine and Russia for all of its wheat imports, while Egypt gets 80% of its grain from the two countries.
The WFP sources 40% of the wheat for its emergency food-relief programmes from Ukraine and, after its operating costs rose by $70m (£58m) a month, it has been forced to halve rations in several countries.
Citing increases in the price of shipping, fertiliser and fuel as key factors – due to Covid-19, the climate crisis and the Ukraine war – Beasley said the number of people suffering from “chronic hunger” had risen from 650 million to 810 million in the past five years.
Beasley added that the number of people experiencing “shock hunger” had increased from 80 million to 325 million over the same period. They are classified as living in crisis levels of food insecurity, a term he described as “marching towards starvation and you don’t know where your next meal is coming from”.
Beasley said that after the economic crash of 2007-09, riots and other unrest erupted in 48 countries around the world as commodity prices and inflation rose.



Millions at risk in South Sudan as Ukraine war forces slashing of aid
Read more
“The economic factors we have today are much worse than those we saw 15 years ago,” he said, adding that if the crisis was not addressed, it would result in “famine, destabilisation of nations and mass migration”.
“We are already seeing riots in Sri Lanka and protests in Tunisia, Pakistan and Peru, and we’ve had destabilisation take place in places like Burkina Faso, Mali, Chad,” said Beasley. “This is only a sign of things to come.”

Ukraine’s agriculture ministry says more than 20m tonnes of grain that would normally be exported is trapped in the country because of Russia’s blockade of its Black Sea ports.
European leaders, including the French president, Emmanuel Macron, have urged Russia to ease its blockade of Odesa, Ukraine’s main port, to allow exports of grain.
In the long term, Beasley called on the world’s richest people to commit more of their wealth to tackling global hunger, while also urging Vladimir Putin to open up Odesa.
“It is a very, very frightening time,” said Beasley. “We are facing hell on earth if we do not respond immediately. The best thing we can do right now is end that damn war in Russia and Ukraine and get the port open.”
You've read 6 articles in the last year
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​Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has abruptly transformed the world. Millions of people have already fled. A new Iron Curtain is grinding into place. An economic war deepens, as the military conflict escalates, civilian casualties rise and evidence of horrific war crimes mounts.
It’s our job at the Guardian to decipher a rapidly changing landscape, particularly when it involves a mounting refugee crisis and the risk of unthinkable escalation. Our correspondents are on the ground in Ukraine and throughout the globe delivering round-the-clock reporting and analysis during this perilous situation.
We know there is no substitute for being there – and we’ll stay on the ground, as we did during the 1917 Russian Revolution, the Ukrainian famine of the 1930s, the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991 and the first Russo-Ukrainian conflict in 2014. We have an illustrious, 200-year history of reporting throughout Europe in times of upheaval, peace and everything in between. We won’t let up now.
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----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538212125293821952


----------



## Apollon

Trango Towers said:


> OK you have PhD in everything. We stupid people are humbled by your knowledge. Have a nice day in your world



At least you now learned that even during cold war USSR did evrything to appear as stable and trustworthy energy supplier in europe. Putin trashed this and ruined the work of decades. There is no way that Europe will ever again buy russiam eneegy as long this regime exists


----------



## ckf

Apollon said:


> At least you now learned that even during cold war USSR did evrything to appear as stable and trustworthy energy supplier in europe. Putin trashed this and ruined the work of decades. There is no way that Europe will ever again buy russiam eneegy as long this regime exists


MEP Clare Daly disagrees with you. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537708011443167232

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Wow Wow:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538209500905320454


----------



## ZeGerman

zartosht said:


> Dont play dumb. At least stand by your views.
> 
> You and your zionist ally knew exactly what u were doing, and you have been doing it not just to somalia. But any member whos ethnicity you feel beneath you. Because there is poverty in somalia, all somalians must kneel to western colonialism or starve.


They are starving due to food distuption because russia started a colonialist invasion of a country whose people they used to starve (holodomir).

You are defending this invasion.


zartosht said:


> Your nothing special. Your lighter skin tone doesnt make you smarter or better then anyoneelse.


Now your the one starting to drag in skintones? 

Stop bringing peoplea nationality/ethnicity when you dont like their views you wannabe ubermansch

You are the one dragging in ethnicity?
Or stereotyping germans as nazi? 

As for nationality: Nothing wrong for me to point out that a russian cheerleader from somalia, might actually try to open his eyes on the side-effects of russian agression on his own people. 

Now can you please stop your skin obsession and lets get back to main discussion

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> They are starving due to food distuption because russia started a colonialist invasion of a country whose people they used to starve (holodomir).
> 
> You are defending this invasion.



In the 90s the US invaded Serbia. This is payback time.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Trango Towers

Apollon said:


> At least you now learned that even during cold war USSR did evrything to appear as stable and trustworthy energy supplier in europe. Putin trashed this and ruined the work of decades. There is no way that Europe will ever again buy russiam eneegy as long this regime exists


No I am telling you that you are talking crap...but it went over your Greek head.

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## ZeGerman

Tai Hai Chen said:


> In the 90s the US invaded Serbia. This is payback time.


Yes somalians and ukranians…time to feel that payback…🤪

In meantime america is geopolitical winner here so far.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> In the 90s the US invaded Serbia. This is payback time.


The US didnt invade Serbia. NATO demonstrated how to force a country into submission with air combat missions only. Clearly Russia didnt take notes. 
If Russia wasnt a nuclear power, its invading forces in eastern Ukraine would have been destroyed in the same fashion already.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537778975010869250

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537787196517777408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537963384628334592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537963388956909571

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537693353051303937


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538062932243845121

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538067848853172224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537838127544516608

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537799402756136960

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537796235624689665

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537795955776536577

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537795684673413121

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537795368863375360

Reactions: Like Like:
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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537693353051303937


Some belive it to be Harpoons. Better use them before Tai Hai Chens imaginary fleet of russian attack helicopters hovering over Ukraine are destroying them.


----------



## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> View attachment 854988
> 
> 
> View attachment 854989
> 
> 
> View attachment 854990
> 
> 
> View attachment 854991
> 
> 
> View attachment 854993
> 
> 
> View attachment 854994
> 
> 
> For the “US is tired and worn out” crowd. This is one depot.



Tank p0rn


----------



## Paul2

Interesting observation:



https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/06/17/world/europe/russia-private-jets.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes



Not a single Russian oligarch ran away to China, all went to the Gulf, EU, Switzerland, Carribean, or even Central Asian countries.

_Not a single one went to China, India, or any other Asian country_

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537772650449215488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538100214300659712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537942093917630465

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538098665159593984

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

Paul2 said:


> Tank p0rn










The Sierra Army Depot

36,000 acres

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538265828134887424

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538292077968097280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538287525017669633

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538286349987758080

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

sammuel said:


> While you watch and cheer Putin your people are starving :
> 
> 
> Somalia faces grim humanitarian catastrophe​
> The war in Ukraine is worsening food insecurity in East Africa after a devastating locust invasion, the COVID-19 pandemic, and the ongoing drought. In Somalia alone, 6 million people are food insecure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Somalia faces grim humanitarian catastrophe – DW – 06/17/2022
> 
> 
> The war in Ukraine is worsening food insecurity in East Africa after a devastating locust invasion, the COVID-19 pandemic, and the ongoing drought. In Somalia alone, 6 million people are food insecure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dw.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Marching towards starvation’: UN warns of hell on earth if Ukraine war goes on​Unprecedented food shortages could spark riots in dozens of countries as Black Sea blockade adds to pressures, says WFP chief
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Marching towards starvation’: UN warns of hell on earth if Ukraine war goes on
> 
> 
> Unprecedented food shortages could spark riots in dozens of countries as Black Sea blockade adds to pressures, says WFP chief
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *'Widen gaze from Ukraine' to avert famine in Somalia, U.N. agency warns*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The world must “widen its gaze from the war in Ukraine” to prevent Somalia sliding into famine, the United Nations’ children’s agency said on Tuesday, warning only a third of the $250 million needed to stave off catastrophe had so far been raised.
> 
> Four consecutive rainy seasons have failed in the Horn of Africa – the worst drought spell in more than 40 years – and a fifth in October-December also looks likely to do so.
> 
> Drought has combined with a globaon l rise in food and fuel prices, pushed up by the war in Ukraine, to hit millions across the continent, putting food staples out of reach for poor families and killing crops and livestock.
> 
> “If the world does not widen its gaze from the war in Ukraine and act immediately, an explosion of child death is about to happen in the Horn of Africa,” Rania Dagash, deputy regional director of UNICEF, told a briefing.
> 
> Somalia has 386,000 children in urgent need of treatment for life-threatening malnutrition, numbers that are already higher than the 340,000 children who needed treatment in 2011, a year when famine killed hundreds of thousands of people, she said.
> 
> Donor funding has been generous but falls short of the $250 million needed, Dagash said.
> 
> “We have just a third of what we need this year. Our call to the international community, led by the G7 who will be meeting in Germany in a few weeks, needs to commit new, additional funding to save lives,” she said.
> 
> Etienne Peterschmitt, Representative in Somalia for the Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO), another U.N. agency, said millions were malnourished and 213,000 people were in the most critical category, facing extreme lack of food.
> 
> Drought had dried up pastures and pushed up the price of food and water, he said. Around 3 million livestock have died since last year due to drought and disease. The southern Bay region was of particular concern.
> 
> Somalia is “on the brink of devastating and widespread hunger, starvation and death”, he said, adding it was a “perfect storm for famine if action is not taken now”.
> 
> Malnutrition made children more vulnerable to disease and forced destitute families to travel long distances on foot for treatment, Dagash said, citing an example of a pregnant woman walking 120 km (75 miles) for treatment for her 1-year-old twin boys.
> 
> “I’ve heard of children being buried along the roadside as their families make the desperate long trek to seek help.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Widen gaze from Ukraine' to avert famine in Somalia, U.N. agency warns
> 
> 
> LONDON – The world must “widen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.euronews.com





That is gibberish. Somalia is doing fine and will do fine if the evil West leaves it alone. This is the overt and shadowy wars the West has been waging and is still waging on this small country. But unlike you, we don't submit to Western dictates, and we shall insha'Allah overcome.









The Surge Nobody’s Talking About: The U.S. War in Somalia


The U.S. has engaged in military operations against terrorists in Africa for years, but a lack of transparency about civilian casualties is causing concern.




thewarhorse.org





The Biden administration invaded again after they helped overthrew the last president in just May of this year.









US troops back in Somalia to fight al-Shabab


The decision comes after the election of a new president, and a surge in attacks by al-Shabab.



www.bbc.com





This is a list of Western military interventions in Somalia.









American military intervention in Somalia (2007–present) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Effing scum, they invade smaller countries, create a mayhem, and then act as 'saviors'.









What US re-entry into Somalia means for the Horn of Africa and for bigger powers


The decision to redeploy in Somalia represents a renewed emphasis on the old rivalry with Russia.




theconversation.com





This is Wikileaks exposing the US government pushing other countries to invade Somalia, while the US air force was attacking from the air.









WikiLeaks Reveals U.S. Twisted Ethiopia's Arm to Invade Somalia - FPIF


Even though Washington claims to have counseled Ethiopia not to use military force against Somalia.




fpif.org






Screw the West, may its demise comes sooner than later. What an evil empire that causes havoc, spills blood, and creates so much despair in many countries.


Lastly, why don't you tell us your nationality? We understand that you aren't Jewish, so instead of hiding behind the flag of people that you have nothing to do with, why don't you tell us your ethnicity and nationality? If you want to attack people, at least admit who you're.

Reactions: Like Like:
4 | Love Love:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538273910260629504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538272343868448770

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538275642919239680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538271690576302082

Reactions: Haha Haha:
3


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538207791441141762

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538208360776052736

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## khansaheeb

ZeGerman said:


> Yes somalians and ukranians…time to feel that payback…🤪
> 
> In meantime america is geopolitical winner here so far.


Making the Europoodles fight a bear is definitely a geopolitical US win. Once the Europoodles start getting their arse whipped by the Russians then the Europoodles will have to buy weapons from the US. Once the whole of Europe is engulfed in war the whole of Europe will be indebted to the US.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538275449763250179

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538275187082280961

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538272006222893056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538248449866485762

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538257243111452672

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1


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## zectech

Trump is the Deepstate.









The Real Deep State Is Trump


How the president has used William Barr and other officials to turn the government into his personal fiefdom




newrepublic.com





Backed by the mossad deepstate, backed by the cia deepstate, backed by the British "crown" MI6 deepstate. And Trump wants to destroy the EU with buddy Putin.

How Putin got away with being part owner of the Conservative Party of the UK, with MI6 "looking the other way", as Putin got the UK conservative anti-Muslim rabid Trumpers "white nationalists" in the UK to back brexit.

Brexit Wasn’t About Economics. It Was About Racial Hatred​Racism is fundamental, not incidental, to British and European societies.









Brexit Wasn’t About Economics. It Was About Racial Hatred.


Racism is fundamental, not incidental, to British and European societies.




www.huffpost.com





MI6 and the cia wanted to destroy the EU. The Trump cia of Pompeo and the British Crown MI6 of the old Rhodes Roundtable that both Nancy Pelosi and Bill Clinton learned about and supported a globe dominated by an Britsh-American Federation. The EU stands in the way of this 130 year old goal by the British "Crown" to own Europe and the rest of the globe. This history of British quest for owning the globe was taught to Bill Clinton at Georgetown University by Professor Quigley and millions of others are fully aware of this (both supporters and opponents) because it is 100% documented, even the New York Times covered this story. There are dozens of history books that cover this history. Putin is a tool of the British Crown to destroy the EU. The US-UK side with the EU/Europe/Ukraine to devastate the EU with a prolonged war with a potential economic collapse. And Putin is doer of the deed of the cia goal. This is on wikipedia discussing this and Quingley worked for the US government is various roles. Quigley supported the idea of British-American federation take over of the globe and in two books covers the history behind the organization that is doing this backed by the British "crown".









Carroll Quigley - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0945001010




__





Amazon.com: Hidden History: a compelling and captivating study of the causes of WW1 that turns everything you think you know on its head eBook : Docherty, Gerry, MacGregor, James: Kindle Store


Hidden History: a compelling and captivating study of the causes of WW1 that turns everything you think you know on its head - Kindle edition by Docherty, Gerry, MacGregor, James. Download it once and read it on your Kindle device, PC, phones or tablets. Use features like bookmarks, note taking...



www.amazon.com









__





Amazon.com: The Two Edwards: How King Edward VII and Foreign Secretary Sir Edward Grey Fomented the First World War eBook : Hof, Peter: Kindle Store


Amazon.com: The Two Edwards: How King Edward VII and Foreign Secretary Sir Edward Grey Fomented the First World War eBook : Hof, Peter: Kindle Store



www.amazon.com













Putin’s Plot Against ‘Great’ Britain – And How He Got Away With It – Byline Times


Peter Jukes tracks Vladimir Putin’s long war against the West and the allies he has found in the pro-Brexit establishment in the plot to derail Britain




bylinetimes.com





_In the summer of 2012, Sergey Nalobin, a senior diplomat, whose father was an FSB general and whose brother also worked for the Russian intelligence agency, hosted a party at the Russian Embassy establishing the Conservative Friends of Russia. For three years, as donations from Russian oligarchs increased, he befriended senior Conservative (Party member)s and their contacts, and particularly those associated with what would become the official Vote Leave campaign to exit the EU, including Boris Johnson, John Whittingdale and Matthew Elliott. 

Yakovenko was recalled to Moscow after Boris Johnson took over the leadership of the Conservative Party in the summer of 2019. He was awarded the Order of Alexander Nevsky medal by Vladimir Putin himself and made President of the Diplomatic Academy.”

We now know more about the extensive funding of the Conservative Party by Russian oligarchs and their high-level access to politicians. Other senior business figures, who have funded either the Leave campaigns or Brexit think tanks, made their millions in Russia or have major investments there.

As reported by Catherine Belton, another Soviet-born oligarch and major Conservative donor, Alexander Temerko, claimed that Johnson was finally persuaded to back Brexit by a group of ‘eastern European businessmen’. Temerko refused to elaborate when questioned further by Belton, and there are numerous candidates who could be part of that group. But it certainly looks like the Lebedevs were involved._

MI6 is working with Putin buddies in the UK to weaken the EU. The war by Putin is backed by the British MI6, the US cia, Trump-Putin partnership. The arming of Ukraine is half-hearted and with the purpose of destroying the EU economically and later politically.

_The economic fallout of war in Ukraine will hit the European Union hard._









EU will pay for the war, but the bill won’t be split evenly


From reliance on Russian gas to tourism receipts, EU members are bracing for varied and uneven economic impacts.




www.politico.eu





That is why the Pompeo-Trump-Bush cia is sending arms to Ukraine, so this war drags out and the EU is on her knees. US wants the EU in shambles from this. Who are the two countries that are delaying the JCPOA - the UK and calling the IRGC terrorists and the US with getting out of the JCPOA. The EU is filled with green politics, peace-niks who do not want US endless war and conflict, wanted trade with China, wanted trade with Iran and the JCPOA.

Finishing off China and the EU is the final solution. After that is what the British have laboured for for 130 years - British owning the globe, along with puppets in Washington and friends in Russia and zionst and French friends (enter the stage Le Pen).

*Trump and Vladimir Putin 'want to DESTROY the EU' – former Italian leader WARNS *









Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin 'want to DESTROY the EU'


DONALD Trump and Vladimir Putin “want to destroy the EU” and the populist government in Italy is trying to help them, according to former Italian prime minister Mario Monti.




www.express.co.uk





*‘Very dangerous’: Putin, Trump want to weaken the European Union, top official says*









'Very dangerous': Putin, Trump want to weaken the European Union, top official says


There is at least one thing in common between the U.S. and Russia – their willingness to weaken the European Union, a top EU official said.




www.cnbc.com





Trump, Putin want to destroy the competition in Europe to cia monopoly.

*Trump Brags He Threatened to Not Defend NATO Allies From Russia*









Trump Brags He Threatened to Not Defend NATO Allies From Russia


The former president said that NATO members were not paying enough to defend themselves.




www.newsweek.com





*Trump was planning to withdraw US from Nato and ditch South Korea alliance, according to new book*









Trump was planning to withdraw US from Nato and ditch South Korea alliance, according to new book


‘Yeah, the second term. We’ll do it in the second term,’ then-president reportedly said




www.independent.co.uk





*Trump: EU is one of United States’ biggest foes *









Trump: EU is one of United States’ biggest foes


Remarks come a day ahead of meeting with Russian president.




www.politico.eu





*Trump just threatened to dismantle the European-American alliance as we know it*









 Trump just threatened to dismantle the European-American alliance as we know it


It’s "geopolitical suicide," according to one expert.




www.vox.com





Putin appointment to be successor of Yeltsin was approved by cia agents in the Kremlin



https://www.rt.com/russia/526345-yeltsin-cia-connection-claim/



The cia has used Putin, Russia, and Putinites to attempt to weaken or destroy the EU for over 15 years. I know, I followed the movement from its infancy.

So the very individuals Chinese and Muslims think they are fighting against - white Trumpers in Ukraine to defeat those wide eyed Europeans, are the very individuals these same Chinese are Muslims are supporting in the MI6, cia, and the mossad.

The Turkish backed FSA figured out this whole scheme in Syria, that the zionists were arming both sides to destroy Syria.

You would think that Israel would be on the side of defeating Assad.

‘Israel wants to keep Assad in power (to keep Syria weak),’ FSA claims​


https://www.rt.com/op-ed/fsa-israel-assad-power-912/



A demonized Assad and a destroyed Syria is more advantageous to zionists than Syria being free and strong. The Entente of US/UK/RUS/FR/Balfour Jews don't want competition anywhere. Competition is a threat to these individuals which want obedient slaves.

US an UK are sending arms into Ukraine to keep the war going to collapse the economy of Europe to usher in an age of cia bitcoins.

Trumpers hate the EU. Putinites hate the EU. cia hates the EU, hated Adenauer's dream of a united Europe. The cia sees the EU and continental Europe as COMPETITION to hegemony. The FSB hates the EU. MI6 hates the EU. mossad hates the EU. Rothschild is handler of the EU with Macron and other bankers to be the handlers of the EU so the EU does not get out of hand for the British-American Federation. The same way Rothschild was handler with Kissinger for China. And the Trilateral Commission and Rockefeller are handlers of Japan so that Japan does not leave the reservation. We are witnessing in this war a final solution. What we would have witnessed had Trump started a war on China. And China supports Russia and Putin.









Trilateral Commission | History & Facts


Trilateral Commission, organization of private citizens founded in 1973 principally by American banker David Rockefeller to confront challenges posed by the growing interdependence of the United States and its principal allies (Canada, Japan, and the countries of western Europe) and to...



www.britannica.com





Trump, Putin, Len Pen, British "Crown" are the redux of the old Entente.

France is the only hold out to Rothschild handled globalist neo-liberalism in the age we are living now. Macron is a Rothschild banker. The reason why there is some semblance of independence in the governments around the globe is because of the cold war era. The US had to win over nations to their side with carrots so they would not be pro-Soviet. Trump and Putin are the recall of that order.

Putin and Trump are there to smash the old order of a multipolar economic world of the European Union and China as the centers of trade.

The end of the neo-lib Davos WEF is a planned global government by the entente: UK, US, France, Russia and Israel. This is the goal of the British, Trump... and Putin destroying the EU. UK and Washignton rules based order where UK and Washington are the decision makers for what your country can and cannot do. We saw a taste of this with Trump. We are seeing more with Putin and this war.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538258349376028672
The Russian missile raids are taking no breaks. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538251393353494528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538238399945052160

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538229420401512448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538234827807375360

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## Paul2

Big news, Canadian Excaliburs finally reached the frontline, and their first use - Telegrams.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538226080737378307

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538225352920768513

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538201752582987781


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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> That is gibberish. Somalia is doing fine and will do fine if the evil West leaves it alone. This is the overt and shadowy wars the West has been waging and is still waging on this small country. But unlike you, we don't submit to Western dictates, and we shall insha'Allah overcome.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Surge Nobody’s Talking About: The U.S. War in Somalia
> 
> 
> The U.S. has engaged in military operations against terrorists in Africa for years, but a lack of transparency about civilian casualties is causing concern.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thewarhorse.org
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> The Biden administration invaded again after they helped overthrew the last president in just May of this year.
> 
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> 
> US troops back in Somalia to fight al-Shabab
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> 
> The decision comes after the election of a new president, and a surge in attacks by al-Shabab.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a list of Western military interventions in Somalia.
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> 
> American military intervention in Somalia (2007–present) - Wikipedia
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> en.wikipedia.org
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> 
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> 
> Effing scum, they invade smaller countries, create a mayhem, and then act as 'saviors'.
> 
> 
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> 
> What US re-entry into Somalia means for the Horn of Africa and for bigger powers
> 
> 
> The decision to redeploy in Somalia represents a renewed emphasis on the old rivalry with Russia.
> 
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> 
> theconversation.com
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> 
> This is Wikileaks exposing the US government pushing other countries to invade Somalia, while the US air force was attacking from the air.
> 
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> 
> WikiLeaks Reveals U.S. Twisted Ethiopia's Arm to Invade Somalia - FPIF
> 
> 
> Even though Washington claims to have counseled Ethiopia not to use military force against Somalia.
> 
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> fpif.org
> 
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> 
> Screw the West, may its demise comes sooner than later. What an evil empire that causes havoc, spills blood, and creates so much despair in many countries.
> 
> 
> Lastly, why don't you tell us your nationality? We understand that you aren't Jewish, so instead of hiding behind the flag of people that you have nothing to do with, why don't you tell us your ethnicity and nationality? If you want to attack people, at least admit who you're.



LMAO,you are so ashamed of living in the west but criticizing it all day and night that you have to put your location in Somalia....


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538305739256647680


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538315434491097089

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> LMAO,you are so ashamed of living in the west but criticizing it all day and night that you have to put your location in Somalia....




Whatever that rocks your boat, mate. But I am gonna stay on message. Those Russians have made my day today: The missile rain is relentless. Now, how about these T80 and T62 tanks that are coming to Ukraine now? Those Russians are certainly kicking arse.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538192109991239680
Welcome to the multi-polar world!!

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538248336230203394

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538248035536359426

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538241919289016320

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## zectech

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538249171228102657
Explainer: How Orwell's '1984' Looms Large in Wartime Russia​_
In theory, “1984” has not been banned and can be distributed freely.

Lawyer Anastasia Rudenko and businessman Dmitry Silin began distributing *free copies of “1984” last month to passersby* in the city of Ivanovo, northeast of Moscow.

The pair spent about $1,500 on copies of “1984,” giving them away in the town’s parks and squares. They have distributed 500 copies so far this month.

But the pair were detained and charged with discrediting the Russian army, which is punishable with a jail term of 15 years in prison. 









Explainer: How Orwell's '1984' Looms Large in Wartime Russia - The Moscow Times


George Orwell’s dystopian novel “1984” has been catapulted into the spotlight in Russia since the country invaded Ukraine on Feb. 24. Many have drawn parallels between the book — written in 1949 to describe a world under totalitarian surveillance — and modern Russia, where ordinary people are...




www.themoscowtimes.com




_
If you hand out the book 1984 in Russia, you can end in a 1984 Russian prison.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538187023713857536

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538239889615081478

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538316328221609984

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538265828134887424


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538193202175418370

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

Spoiler: GRAPHIC: Mercenaries from the West who got bloodied and wounded in Severodonetsk. It is absolutely brutal. 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537966448991035392

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538185421183758336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538184964717543427

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538114663954763778

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538114510615093248

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538113413968187392

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538185162839629826

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538112605067386880


MeFishToo said:


> Some belive it to be Harpoons. Better use them before Tai Hai Chens imaginary fleet of russian attack helicopters hovering over Ukraine are destroying them.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538106949195251713


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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 18​Jun 18, 2022 - Press ISW






Download the PDF

*Karolina Hird, Mason Clark, George Barros, and Grace Mappes
June 18, 3:30 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Russian forces made marginal gains on the outskirts of Severodonetsk on June 18 but have largely stalled along other axes of advance. *Russian troops are likely facing mounting losses and troop and equipment degradation that will complicate attempts to renew offensive operations on other critical locations as the slow battle for Severodonetsk continues. As ISW previously assessed, Russian forces will likely be able to seize Severodonetsk in the coming weeks, but at the cost of concentrating most of their available forces in this small area. Other Russian operations in eastern Ukraine—such as efforts to capture Slovyansk and advance east of Bakhmut—have made little progress in the past two weeks. Russian forces are continuing to fight to push Ukrainian troops away from occupied frontiers north of Kharkiv City and along the Southern Axis, but have not made significant gains in doing so, thus leaving them vulnerable to Ukrainian counteroffensive and partisan pressure.
*The Russian military continues to face challenges with the morale and discipline of its troops in Ukraine. *The Ukrainian Main Intelligence Directorate released what it reported were intercepted phone calls on June 17 and 18 in which Russian soldiers complained about frontline conditions, poor equipment, and overall lack of personnel.[1] One soldier claimed that units have been largely drained of personnel and that certain battalion tactical groups (BTGs) have only 10 to 15 troops remaining in service.[2]
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces secured minor gains on the outskirts of Severodonetsk and likely advanced into Metolkine, but Russian operations remain slow.*
*Russian forces continued efforts to interdict Ukrainian lines of communication along the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway and conducted ground and artillery strikes along the highway.*
*Russian forces seek to push Ukrainian forces out of artillery range of railway lines around Kharkiv City used to supply Russian offensive operations toward Slovyansk.*
*Russian forces did not take any confirmed actions along the Southern Axis and continue to face partisan pressure in occupied areas of southern Ukraine.*



*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued ground assaults against Severodonetsk and its outskirts and secured minor gains in the southeastern suburbs of the city on June 18.[3] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian troops had partial success while attacking Metolkine, (just south of Severodonetsk) where they have been fighting for the last few days, though ISW cannot independently confirm what areas of the town Russian forces seized.[4] Russian forces likely intend to capture the southern suburbs of Severodonetsk and advance to the bank of the Severskiy Donets river before assaulting the center of Ukrainian resistance in the Azot chemical plant. Russian forces are additionally fighting for control of Syrotnye, another nearby suburb of Severodonetsk.[5] Russian forces continued to fire on Severodonetsk and Lysychansk.[6]



Russian forces continued to launch attacks toward Slovyansk from the southeast of Izyum on June 18 but did not make any confirmed advances.[7] Fighting continued around Krasnopillya, a village along the E40 highway less than 20 km northwest of Slovyansk.[8] Russian troops exerted continual artillery fire on settlements southeast of Izyum and west of Lyman in order to set conditions for further attempts to advance on Slovyansk.[9] Russian forces seek to capture Slovyansk to sever one of Ukraine’s lines of communications to Severodonetsk and Lysychansk but are making only incremental progress towards the city.
Russian forces continued ground and artillery attacks east of Bakhmut in order to interdict Ukrainian lines of communication along the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway on June 18.[10] Head of the Luhansk Regional State Administration Serhiy Haidai stated that Ukrainian forces repelled a Russian attack in Nyrkove, a settlement along the Luhansk-Donetsk Oblast border within 5 km of the T1302 highway.[11] Russian forces additionally conducted unsuccessful attacks against Hirske and Berestove, likely with the intent of interdicting Ukrainian lines of communication along the T1302 highway and complicating Ukrainian operations to support the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area.[12]



*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces continued offensive operations to prevent Ukrainian troops from advancing further toward the international border on June 18.[13] The Ukrainian General Staff noted that Russian forces are taking measures to prevent Ukrainian troops from reaching Russian rear areas that are supporting operations toward Slovyansk and are laying additional railways to restore supply lines to Slovyansk.[14] Russian-controlled rail lines in northern Kharkiv Oblast are likely the primary means Russian forces are employing to supply ongoing operations to capture Slovyansk, and Russian forces have prioritized securing and repairing railways in this area throughout the war. While Ukrainian forces are unlikely to be able to quickly advance the dozens of kilometers into Russian-held territory in Kharkiv Oblast that would be required to directly sever these rail lines, Russian forces likely seek to push back Ukrainian forces to prevent their artillery from interdicting Russian supply routes. Russian forces additionally continued to fight for control of Dementiivka and Pitomnyk, both north of Kharkiv City, and conducted artillery strikes around northeastern Kharkiv Oblast.[15]



*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces fired on Ukrainian positions along the Southern Axis but did not make any confirmed attacks on June 18, a pause from the steady localized attacks of the past several weeks.[16] Russian forces continued efforts to improve engineering equipment along the Inhulets River.[17] A Russian Telegram channel noted that Russian forces launched massive, unspecified strikes along the Mykolaiv-Kherson Oblast border, likely in response to recent limited Ukrainian counterattacks in the area.[18]



*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian occupation authorities continued to face partisan activity in occupied areas on June 18. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported that unidentified Ukrainian partisans conducted an IED attack against Yevhen Sobolev, a Russian collaborator, in Kherson City on June 18.[19] Such partisan actions will likely continue to complicate the implementation of occupational agendas and pro-Russian sentiment in occupied areas.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538086572578439168

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538086520653238272

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## khansaheeb

zectech said:


> Trump is the Deepstate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Real Deep State Is Trump
> 
> 
> How the president has used William Barr and other officials to turn the government into his personal fiefdom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> newrepublic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Backed by the mossad deepstate, backed by the cia deepstate, backed by the British "crown" MI6 deepstate. And Trump wants to destroy the EU with buddy Putin.
> 
> How Putin got away with being part owner of the Conservative Party of the UK, with MI6 "looking the other way", as Putin got the UK conservative anti-Muslim rabid Trumpers "white nationalists" in the UK to back brexit.
> 
> Brexit Wasn’t About Economics. It Was About Racial Hatred​Racism is fundamental, not incidental, to British and European societies.
> 
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> Brexit Wasn’t About Economics. It Was About Racial Hatred.
> 
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> Racism is fundamental, not incidental, to British and European societies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.huffpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MI6 and the cia wanted to destroy the EU. The Trump cia of Pompeo and the British Crown MI6 of the old Rhodes Roundtable that both Nancy Pelosi and Bill Clinton learned about and supported a globe dominated by an Britsh-American Federation. The EU stands in the way of this 130 year old goal by the British "Crown" to own Europe and the rest of the globe. This history of British quest for owning the globe was taught to Bill Clinton at Georgetown University and millions of others are fully aware of this (both supporters and opponents) because it is 100% documented, even the New York Times covered this story. There are dozens of history books that cover this history. Putin is a tool of the British Crown to destroy the EU. The US-UK side with the EU/Europe/Ukraine to devastate the EU with a prolonged war with a potential economic collapse. And Putin is doer of the deed of the cia goal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Putin’s Plot Against ‘Great’ Britain – And How He Got Away With It – Byline Times
> 
> 
> Peter Jukes tracks Vladimir Putin’s long war against the West and the allies he has found in the pro-Brexit establishment in the plot to derail Britain
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bylinetimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _In the summer of 2012, Sergey Nalobin, a senior diplomat, whose father was an FSB general and whose brother also worked for the Russian intelligence agency, hosted a party at the Russian Embassy establishing the Conservative Friends of Russia. For three years, as donations from Russian oligarchs increased, he befriended senior Conservative (Party member)s and their contacts, and particularly those associated with what would become the official Vote Leave campaign to exit the EU, including Boris Johnson, John Whittingdale and Matthew Elliott.
> 
> Yakovenko was recalled to Moscow after Boris Johnson took over the leadership of the Conservative Party in the summer of 2019. He was awarded the Order of Alexander Nevsky medal by Vladimir Putin himself and made President of the Diplomatic Academy.”
> 
> We now know more about the extensive funding of the Conservative Party by Russian oligarchs and their high-level access to politicians. Other senior business figures, who have funded either the Leave campaigns or Brexit think tanks, made their millions in Russia or have major investments there.
> 
> As reported by Catherine Belton, another Soviet-born oligarch and major Conservative donor, Alexander Temerko, claimed that Johnson was finally persuaded to back Brexit by a group of ‘eastern European businessmen’. Temerko refused to elaborate when questioned further by Belton, and there are numerous candidates who could be part of that group. But it certainly looks like the Lebedevs were involved._
> 
> MI6 is working with Putin buddies in the UK to weaken the EU. The war by Putin is backed by the British MI6, the US cia, Trump-Putin partnership. The arming of Ukraine is half-hearted and with the purpose of destroying the EU economically and later politically.
> 
> _The economic fallout of war in Ukraine will hit the European Union hard._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU will pay for the war, but the bill won’t be split evenly
> 
> 
> From reliance on Russian gas to tourism receipts, EU members are bracing for varied and uneven economic impacts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.politico.eu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is why the Pompeo-Trump-Bush cia is sending arms to Ukraine, so this war drags out and the EU is on her knees. US wants the EU in shambles from this. Who are the two countries that are delaying the JCPOA - the UK and calling the IRGC terrorists and the US with getting out of the JCPOA. The EU is filled with green politics, peace-niks who do not want US endless war and conflict, wanted trade with China, wanted trade with Iran and the JCPOA.
> 
> Finishing off China and the EU is the final solution. After that is what the British have laboured for for 130 years - British owning the globe, along with puppets in Washington and friends in Russia and zionst and French friends (enter the stage Le Pen).
> 
> *Trump and Vladimir Putin 'want to DESTROY the EU' – former Italian leader WARNS *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin 'want to DESTROY the EU'
> 
> 
> DONALD Trump and Vladimir Putin “want to destroy the EU” and the populist government in Italy is trying to help them, according to former Italian prime minister Mario Monti.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.express.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *‘Very dangerous’: Putin, Trump want to weaken the European Union, top official says*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Very dangerous': Putin, Trump want to weaken the European Union, top official says
> 
> 
> There is at least one thing in common between the U.S. and Russia – their willingness to weaken the European Union, a top EU official said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump, Putin want to destroy the competition in Europe to cia monopoly.
> 
> *Trump Brags He Threatened to Not Defend NATO Allies From Russia*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump Brags He Threatened to Not Defend NATO Allies From Russia
> 
> 
> The former president said that NATO members were not paying enough to defend themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newsweek.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Trump was planning to withdraw US from Nato and ditch South Korea alliance, according to new book*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump was planning to withdraw US from Nato and ditch South Korea alliance, according to new book
> 
> 
> ‘Yeah, the second term. We’ll do it in the second term,’ then-president reportedly said
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Trump: EU is one of United States’ biggest foes *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump: EU is one of United States’ biggest foes
> 
> 
> Remarks come a day ahead of meeting with Russian president.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.politico.eu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Trump just threatened to dismantle the European-American alliance as we know it*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump just threatened to dismantle the European-American alliance as we know it
> 
> 
> It’s "geopolitical suicide," according to one expert.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.vox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin appointment to be successor of Yeltsin was approved by cia agents in the Kremlin
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.rt.com/russia/526345-yeltsin-cia-connection-claim/
> 
> 
> 
> The cia has used Putin, Russia, and Putinites to attempt to weaken or destroy the EU for over 15 years. I know, I followed the movement from infancy.
> 
> So the very individuals Chinese and Muslims think they are fighting against - white Trumpers in Ukraine to defeat those wide eyed Europeans, are the very individuals these same Chinese are Muslims are supporting in the MI6, cia, and the mossad.
> 
> The Turkish backed FSA figured out this whole scheme in Syria, that the zionists were arming both sides to destroy Syria.
> 
> You would think that Israel would be on the side of defeating Assad.
> 
> ‘Israel wants to keep Assad in power (to keep Syria weak),’ FSA claims​
> 
> 
> https://www.rt.com/op-ed/fsa-israel-assad-power-912/
> 
> 
> 
> US an UK are sending arms into Ukraine to keep the war going to collapse the economy of Europe to usher in an age of cia bitcoins.
> 
> Trumpers hate the EU. Putinites hate the EU. cia hates the EU, hated Adenauer's dream of a united Europe. The cia sees the EU and continental Europe as COMPETITION to hegemony. The FSB hates the EU. MI6 hates the EU. mossad hates the EU. Rothschild is handler of the EU with Macron and other bankers to be the handlers of the EU so the EU does not get out of hand for the British-American Federation. The same way Rothschild was handler with Kissinger for China. And the Trilateral Commission and Rockefeller are handlers of Japan so that Japan does not leave the reservation. We are witnessing in this war a final solution. What we would have witnessed had Trump started a war on China. And China supports Russia and Putin. Never forget. Europe did not draw first blood on China. China drew first blood on Europe in supporting Russia and Putin. The Trump War on the EU began through Putin, and China sides with the Trump/Putin.


Highly suspicious how Ukraine is being downsized economically and militarily and highly suspicious how the Syrian game is being replayed by the same big players. The only winner is China as the US will be bankrupt by next year and China will have an easy ride into Taiwan. Only question is which other countries are marked for downsizing.

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## ckf

khansaheeb said:


> Highly suspicious how Ukraine is being downsized economically and militarily and highly suspicious how the Syrian game is being replayed by the same big players. The only winner is China as the US will be bankrupt by next year and China will have an easy ride into Taiwan. Only question is which other countries are marked for downsizing.


Inflation and depression are accelerating in Europe....UK is marching...Paris next...America can use export/price control to reduce oil prices at home. Europe will be desperate when winter comes early this year as NG soars into stratosphere. Russia is an energy powerhouse...EU just overestimated its abilities. 









Thousands march in London over cost of living crisis


Demonstration organised by TUC calls on government to make ‘better deal’ for people struggling to cope with soaring inflation




www.theguardian.com

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538202104409604096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538116754756493312

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538298359663972352


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538085523360780288

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538271015037505536

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538084360661909505

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538083093571112960

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538304529208418304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538304535508262912

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538351591560040450

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538351591560040450



May be Russian soldiers have finally got the news that UK had already installed Putin's body double in Kremlin.


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## Elvin

I expected more from the Russians. 4 months in and still struggling to occupy Donbas AND the Russians are hitting Ukraine with everything they have short of nukes. 

Also, Russia is not THAT significant to change world economics. China will think twice as they export 500+ Billion$ to the US. The only thing this invasion will accomplish is the expansion of NATO, Russian reorientation to China who will welcome them with open arms and then squeeze the life out of them with the same arms over time.

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## Soldier35

Russian troops launched a massive missile attack with six missiles on Ukrainian defense infrastructure facilities in the city of Kremenchuk.






Many samples of Western weapons delivered to Ukraine were captured by Russian troops. One of them is the Franco-German man-portable anti-tank missile system MILAN. On the video you can see the version of the MILAN 2 ATGM, developed in 1984, according to the soldiers, the complex is inferior to the Russian ATGM, but due to its light weight it is convenient for use in the city. With the help of captured MILAN anti-tank systems, Russian soldiers strike at Ukrainian surveillance cameras installed on the pipes of the Azot plant in Severodonetsk. After the strike, the calculation quickly leaves the position, as the Ukrainian army quickly strikes back.

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## ckf

Elvin said:


> I expected more from the Russians. 4 months in and still struggling to occupy Donbas AND the Russians are hitting Ukraine with everything they have short of nukes.
> 
> Also, Russia is not THAT significant to change world economics. China will think twice as they export 500+ Billion$ to the US. The only thing this invasion will accomplish is the expansion of NATO, Russian reorientation to China who will welcome them with open arms and then squeeze the life out of them with the same arms over time.


Maybe we should ship you to Ukraine and fight the Russians, then you will find out what's it like. Nothing will save NATO, US ultimate goal is to withdraw from NATO to focus in Asia, None of the EU powers has Naval projection capabilites. So useless for America. AUKUS is the new NATO for US. Biden and the democrats are on the chopping block next election and Trump want it to do it in his second term anyways. 



https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/04/bolton-says-trump-might-have-pulled-us-out-nato-if-he-had-been-reelected/

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Soldier35 said:


> Russian troops launched a massive missile attack with six missiles on Ukrainian defense infrastructure facilities in the city of Kremenchuk.



This is where Ukraine's one and only oil refinery is. It has been targeted many times but maybe it was still functional. Taking down Ukraine's oil production means no fuel for Ukraine's tanks and that means Ukraine cannot do an offensive operation.

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## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538084360661909505
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538083093571112960


That is a slang. Dummy.
When you say you are ready to die for something then it means you love it.
Ukraine ready to die joining the EU means Ukraine willing to do everything possible to enter the bloc.


----------



## Viet

Elvin said:


> I expected more from the Russians. 4 months in and still struggling to occupy Donbas AND the Russians are hitting Ukraine with everything they have short of nukes.
> 
> Also, Russia is not THAT significant to change world economics. China will think twice as they export 500+ Billion$ to the US. The only thing this invasion will accomplish is the expansion of NATO, Russian reorientation to China who will welcome them with open arms and then squeeze the life out of them with the same arms over time.


Russia now de facto a chinese colony.
China is THE buyer of commodities, THE exporter, THE financial lifeline for Russia.
If Xi Jinping stops buying, selling, banking, then Putin imperial dreams collapse instantly.

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## ckf

Viet said:


> That is a slang. Dummy.
> When you say you are ready to die for something then it means you love it.
> Ukraine ready to die joining the EU means Ukraine willing to do everything possible to enter the bloc.


Don't u see the irony that Ukrainians are literally dying for EU as cannon fodders.

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## Viet

ckf said:


> Don't u see the irony that Ukrainians are literally dying for EU as cannon fodders.


When I say I am ready to die for pho means I love eating pho. Nothing with dying. EU is an economic bloc. Not military. You mix up with Nato. Pls educate yourself.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Soldier35 said:


> Many samples of Western weapons delivered to Ukraine were captured by Russian troops. One of them is the Franco-German man-portable anti-tank missile system MILAN. On the video you can see the version of the MILAN 2 ATGM, developed in 1984, according to the soldiers, the complex is inferior to the Russian ATGM, but due to its light weight it is convenient for use in the city. With the help of captured MILAN anti-tank systems, Russian soldiers strike at Ukrainian surveillance cameras installed on the pipes of the Azot plant in Severodonetsk. After the strike, the calculation quickly leaves the position, as the Ukrainian army quickly strikes back.



I wonder if Russia reverse engineer MILAN for urban warfare the way Iran reverse engineered BGM-71.









Toophan - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













Why Iran’s Reverse Engineered TOW Missile Is a Powerhouse


A clever weapon.




nationalinterest.org

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## Apollon

Trango Towers said:


> No I am telling you that you are talking crap...but it went over your Greek head.



European head, not greek head. 


And no, i talk truth you are simply uneducated. 


Here for you


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...QQFnoECAkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3KLAj1Kv6JErpgtxUvWwHQ 


German Russian pipelines were build 50 years ago against heavy critizism and even sanctions of USA. Putin destroyed what was build in 50 years which is crazy. 


On a basic thing, im european. You have zero knowledge in european history. Dont talk bullshit where you know nothing about.


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## leviathan

gambit said:


> Can you dispute with a technical argument? How about the fact that the F-35 is now an Aggressor providing US and allied air forces realistic training tactics against low radar observable threats? Still think your J-20 have any chance of surviving?


No. The F-35 will be detected and shot out of the sky. Then PLAN defense will sink US ships.

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## Apollon

Truthwarrior said:


> What in the I believe MSM news blindly is wrong with the Ukraine supporters lol. Russia was winning, is winning and will win.



Russia had Ukraine as complete colony by 2014. Leads war against Ukraine since 2014, lost 11 generals, flagship and tenthousands of soldiers and got completly cut of from Europe. Meanwhile holds snallest amount of land area in Ukraine since 2014, had to leave entire north, has no chance to conquer the country. Made NATO stronger than ever before. Was that Pussolini goal?


----------



## CSAW

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538424345323880448


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## Trango Towers

Apollon said:


> European head, not greek head.
> 
> 
> And no, i talk truth you are simply uneducated.
> 
> 
> Here for you
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...QQFnoECAkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3KLAj1Kv6JErpgtxUvWwHQ
> 
> 
> German Russian pipelines were build 50 years ago against heavy critizism and even sanctions of USA. Putin destroyed what was build in 50 years which is crazy.
> 
> 
> On a basic thing, im european. You have zero knowledge in european history. Dont talk bullshit where you know nothing about.


Looool Europe is not a country. And not a nationality and I am uneducated....loool typically Greek...now go break a plate because that shows education.

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## Apollon

Trango Towers said:


> Looool Europe is not a country. And not a nationality and I am uneducated....loool typically Greek...now go break a plate because that shows education.



My father is german, my mother greek. I cant even write Greek. The EU is a federation, i have a european passport. On my passport ist EU symbol and flag.


Of course you are uneducated, you sidnt know about german chancellor Willy Brandts Ostpolitik where he started energy projects with USSR in an attempt to create stable and peaceful relations .

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## Foinikas

Russian rescue ship loaded with Tor-M2K,sunk. 

What's going on with the Russian Navy? Now,I know it's just a rescue ship with probably little to no counter-measures and weapons,but...did they have the warning system turned off? 









Βίντεο: Ρωσικό πλοίο με σύστημα TOR M2K επάνω, βυθίζεται από ουκρανικά βλήματα... - Naval Defence


Δεν προλάβαμε να το γράψουμε -μόλις χθες- και ήδη πήραμε απάντηση. Ότι δηλαδή η Ρωσία για να ενισχύσει την αντιαεροπορική άμυνα των πλοίων της στη Μαύρη Θάλασσα, μετά τη βύθιση του Moskva, φορτώνει σύστημα TOR-M2K στα ελικοδρόμια τους ως μια πρόχειρη λύση. Σήμερα; Ένα τέτοιο καταστράφηκε από...




navaldefence.gr


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## SalarHaqq

Trashing Nazis since 1941, modern day western imperialists since 1918.

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## SalarHaqq

CSAW said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538424345323880448



And what about the Ukrainian navy? Well, it doesn't exist anymore.

Also looking at that list, it contains only one properly armed warship. The rest are some landing vessels, four tiny coastal patrol boats, as well as a simple tug boat.

In order to "smoke the Russian navy" in the Black Sea (let alone elsewhere) as claimed by the Tweet, they'll need to destroy so much more than that including all the attack craft. Which of course is never going to happen.

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## Trango Towers

Apollon said:


> My father is german, my mother greek. I cant even write Greek. The EU is a federation, i have a european passport. On my passport ist EU symbol and flag.
> 
> 
> Of course you are uneducated, you sidnt know about german chancellor Willy Brandts Ostpolitik where he started energy projects with USSR in an attempt to create stable and peaceful relations .


Loool...European passport...OK which country issued your passport because there is no country called Europe. R u dumb? 

So what u don't write Greek or German. You are 50% Greek and u hate it. Why? What are you ashamed of. 

France Germany Spain etc all in Europe and all have their own borders languages cutle etc...under European Union but they don't say I am European and not French etc...

I think u are about 12 years old and struggling with geography and simple things

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## Hassan Al-Somal

sammuel said:


> The day the war started in Ukraine , wheat prices jumped by 50% .
> 
> Pretending this does not effect Somalia is a blunt lie. Somalia could barely feed it's people as it is. Without western aid Somalians would starve. Gratitude would be the more normal response .
> 
> If a someone countryman where in danger of hunger , because off this stupid and unnecessary war , one would expect this person , to wish and pray for this war to be over as soon as possible.
> 
> Not to throw oil on the flames , and indulge himself in war propaganda reports.
> 
> 
> Doing fine you say :
> 
> Thousands of Somalis at Risk of Starving to Death, Aid Groups Say​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Somalis who fled drought-stricken areas walk next to a cluster of makeshift shelters at a camp for the displaced on the outskirts of Mogadishu, Somalia, June 4, 2022. Almost a million where displaced because of the drought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thousands of Somalis at Risk of Starving to Death, Aid Groups Say
> 
> 
> Drought in Horn of Africa has hit Somalia hardest, with UN reporting nearly half of its 16 million people face crisis-level food insecurity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.voanews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~
> ~



Lack of rain in the Horn of Africa has nothing to do with the war in Ukraine - a war that is sponsored, funded, and armed by the West. Somalia imports rice and other quantities from South Asia and Far East. The trade between Horn of African countries and Uktaine was zero. Blaming Russia for the lack of rain in the Horn of Africa and consistent Western policies that destroyed Somalia's bread basket is just idiotic and it shows you have no clue of what you're talking about.

The IDPs (internally displaced people) that you showed are only found in the Southern part of Somalia, and it is due to the war between Al-Shabaab and Somali government government forces.

The irony that is never explained is the West imposes arms embargo on the Somali government forces - *an embargo that hinders the Somali government forces from winning the war against the Al-Shabaab terrorists.* That way Al-Shabaab and ISIS have a free reign in the country.









Somalia: Extending UN arms ban hinders war on terror


Al-Shabaab terrorist attacks killed country's security forces due to lack of military capabilities: Somali official - Anadolu Agency




www.aa.com.tr













Security Council extends Somalia sanctions as Mogadishu protests


UN Security Council endorses extension of sanctions on Somalia for another year, in spite of calls by Mogadishu to take charge of its own security reform.




channel16.dryadglobal.com





While the Somali government consistently demanded the arms embargo is lifted from it, the Western powers in the UN Security Council maintain it to ensure the war continues, which is the root cause of the despair in Somalia.

So on one hand they claimed to be fighting against the local Al-Qaeda affiliate ( the Al-Shabaab) and ISIS; on the other hand, they deny the Somali government from obtaining meaningful weapons in order to defeat the terrorists. That way, they ensured the stalemate to continue, which contributes to the despair to civilians caught in the war.

Now, stop derailing the thread. Not sure why you hide behind IsraHell's flag when it is clear you are not from there. Why don't you tell us where you come from?

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## CSAW

SalarHaqq said:


> What about the Ukrainian navy? It doesn't exist anymore.
> 
> Also looking at that list, there's only one properly armed warship. The rest are all landing craft, four tiny coastal patrol boats, as well as a mere tug boat.
> 
> In order to "smoke the Russian navy" in the Black Sea (let alone elsewhere), they'll need to destroy much, much more than that including all the attack craft. Which of course is never going to happen.


By now with all that Naval Power - The Mighty Russian Navy should have bombed the hell out of Ukranian Resistance. It doesn't seem that way.

A super power in shambles against NLAW, Stingers, Javelin, TB2 and courage shown by Ukrainians.


----------



## Apollon

Trango Towers said:


> Loool...European passport...OK which country issued your passport because there is no country called Europe. R u dumb?
> 
> So what u don't write Greek or German. You are 50% Greek and u hate it. Why? What are you ashamed of.
> 
> France Germany Spain etc all in Europe and all have their own borders languages cutle etc...under European Union but they don't say I am European and not French etc...
> 
> I think u are about 12 years old and struggling with geography and simple things



My passport is issued by Germany. I speak and write German, i can speak Greek. I m connected to Germany and greece which are both EU member states. Im not ashamed of anything, i love to represent wide aspect of european cultures.


The big majority of Eueopeans see themself as nationality plus european

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538445137419853825

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538442153642414080

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Russian Ka-52 helicopters hitting the supply lines of the West's proxy forces aka Ukrainian forces


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538441103803916288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538440863726157824
Where is Victoria Nuland and other Neocons who triggered this conflict? Their foot soldiers aka Ukrainian forces are getting rooted in the battle field.

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## Trango Towers

Apollon said:


> My passport is issued by Germany. I speak and write German, i can speak Greek. I m connected to Germany and greece which are both EU member states. Im not ashamed of anything, i love to represent wide aspect of european cultures.
> 
> 
> The big majority of Eueopeans see themself as nationality plus european


Exactly so u have a German passport. So a German nationality.

Dumbo there is no European nationality. Germany is part of EU. Now jog on and get an education. Stupid Greek

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538438712345993218

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538437235401531394

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538436305918513152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538432438560600064

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## Apollon

Trango Towers said:


> Exactly so u have a German passport. So a German nationality.
> 
> Dumbo there is no European nationality. Germany is part of EU. Now jog on and get an education. Stupid Greek



Germany is 16 federal states. All have different culture and dialects as well. 


There is European nationality










Citizenship of the European Union - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org







I give you education


*Citizenship of the European Union* is afforded to all citizens of member states of the European Union (EU). It was formally created with the adoption of the 1992 Maastricht Treaty, at the same time as the creation of the EU. EU citizenship is additional to, as it does not replace, national citizenship.[1][2] It affords EU citizens with rights, freedoms and legal protections available under EU law.





Its even written on my passport: European Union.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538389251594649600

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Russian Ka-52 helicopters hitting the supply lines of the West's proxy forces aka Ukrainian forces
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538441103803916288
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538440863726157824
> Where is Victoria Nuland and other Neocons who triggered this conflict? Their foot soldiers aka Ukrainian forces are getting rooted in the battle field.


Ah “closing the cauldron” again like what we have been hearing for months now.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538091190410952704

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## MeFishToo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Russian Ka-52 helicopters hitting the supply lines of the West's proxy forces aka Ukrainian forces
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538441103803916288


This is just pointless shelling in the general direction of Ukraine. They might aswell fire those things using a catapult from the middle ages. Theyre making a thousend holes in the ground out of desperation.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538377191968460801

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538457588173443073


MeFishToo said:


> This is just pointless shelling in the general direction of Ukraine. They might aswell fire those things using a catapult from the middle ages. Theyre making a thousend holes in the ground out of desperation.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538448533438599169

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## Hassan Al-Somal

ZeGerman said:


> Ah “closing the cauldron” again like what we have been hearing for months now.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538447902699245568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538294859123294208

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## SalarHaqq

CSAW said:


> By now with all that Naval Power - The Mighty Russian Navy should have bombed the hell out of Ukranian Resistance. It doesn't seem that way.
> 
> A super power in shambles against NLAW, Stingers, Javelin, TB2 and courage shown by Ukrainians.



Russia has committed less than 8% or so of its total firepower against a foe that was very much expected to be capable of some form of resistance, especially since it is being armed and funded by the entire NATO, having received in only three to four months the near equivalent of what Russia is spending in a year on defence. Unlike completely helpless, isolated and disarmed nations such as the Iraq of 2003 (actually a failed state at that time already) or the Libya of 2011, quick victory over which NATO regimes like to portray as an extraordinary feat indicative of their supposed global military supremacy. Whereas in reality, these respective scenarii and the challenges they pose are fundamentally different.

Russia has been displaying major prowess in this conflict indeed. Against a more or less capable enemy Moscow deployed no more than a fraction of the defending party's troop numbers, but has nonetheless snatched 20% of their territory while losing several times fewer men and equipment in the process. And this is while Russian forces are wary of causing extensive damage to regions inhabited by their kin, which they intend to annex - another constraint NATO hasn't been facing in its campaigns. Not only has Kiev been unable to halt the steady, daily Russian advances but it'll end up losing much more territory in the upcoming weeks and months. The resulting Ukrainian rump state will be in ruins while current Russian territory will remain entirely unharmed.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538365617132253185

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538365642243465218

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Whatever that rocks your boat, mate. But I am gonna stay on message. Those Russians have made my day today: The missile rain is relentless. Now, how about these T80 and T62 tanks that are coming to Ukraine now? Those Russians are certainly kicking arse.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538192109991239680
> Welcome to the multi-polar world!!



I hope you are aware that Russians deploying whatever garbages are in their reserves (like t62s) mean they have suffered such staggering losses that they have to deploy those antiquities,meaning their more modern hardwares were decimated.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538387271640129536

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## shi12jun



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## Apollon

SalarHaqq said:


> Russia has committed less than 8% or so of its total firepower against a foe that was very much expected to be capable of some form of resistance, especially since it is being armed and funded by the entire NATO, having received in only three to four months the near equivalent of what Russia is spending in a year on defence. Unlike completely helpless, isolated and disarmed nations such as the Iraq of 2003 (actually a failed state at that time already) or the Libya of 2011, quick victory over which NATO regimes like to portray as an extraordinary feat indicative of their supposed global military supremacy. Whereas in reality, these respective scenarii and the challenges they pose are fundamentally different.
> 
> Russia has been displaying major prowess in this conflict indeed. Against a more or less capable enemy Moscow deployed no more than a fraction of the defending party's troop numbers, but has nonetheless snatched 20% of their territory while losing several times fewer men and equipment in the process. And this is while Russian forces are wary of causing extensive damage to regions inhabited by their kin, which they intend to annex - another constraint NATO hasn't been facing in its campaigns. Not only hasn't Kiev been able to halt the steady, daily Russian advances but it'll end up losing much more territory in the upcoming weeks and months. The resulting Ukrainian rump state will be in ruins while current Russian territory will remain entirely unharmed.



You do know that Russia is broken with 70% of people not even having toilets right? Keep in mind we have 400 billion russian assets we can use to repair Ukraine.


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## CSAW

SalarHaqq said:


> Russia has committed less than 8% or so of its total firepower against a foe that was very much expected to be capable of some form of resistance, especially since it is being armed and funded by the entire NATO, having received in only three to four months the near equivalent of what Russia is spending in a year on defence. Unlike completely helpless, isolated and disarmed nations such as the Iraq of 2003 (actually a failed state at that time already) or the Libya of 2011, quick victory over which NATO regimes like to portray as an extraordinary feat indicative of their supposed global military supremacy. Whereas in reality, these respective scenarii and the challenges they pose are fundamentally different.
> 
> Russia has been displaying major prowess in this conflict indeed. Against a more or less capable enemy Moscow deployed no more than a fraction of the defending party's troop numbers, but has nonetheless snatched 20% of their territory while losing several times fewer men and equipment in the process. And this is while Russian forces are wary of causing extensive damage to regions inhabited by their kin, which they intend to annex - another constraint NATO hasn't been facing in its campaigns. Not only hasn't Kiev been able to halt the steady, daily Russian advances but it'll end up losing much more territory in the upcoming weeks and months. The resulting Ukrainian rump state will be in ruins while current Russian territory will remain entirely unharmed.


Russians would pay for this with their Blood and economy. Rest assured.
Poor planning, Lack of an effective Airforce with A2G Precision munitions, aging Infantary columns being targeted by tiny drones - all of this is causing body bags to go back to Russia.
The dream to regain the great Soviet empire is already in shambles.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538412000367222786









List Of Aircraft Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine







www.oryxspioenkop.com

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## MeFishToo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538365617132253185
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538365642243465218


Its actually sickening you keep reposting this russian propaganda about ukrainian forces using civilians as shields. They are defending their country and citizens, while Russia is using that lame excuse to flatten everything moving forward, because all advantage they have left is artillery power.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538478739251765248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538472689903476738

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## jhungary

MeFishToo said:


> Its actually sickening you keep reposting this russian propaganda about ukrainian forces using civilians as shields. They are defending their country and citizens, while Russia is using that lame excuse to flatten everything moving forward, because all advantage they have left is artillery power.


It's funny when you see it this way

Russian accused Ukrainian for putting Ukrainian Civilian in harms way, and that is the reason they went to war with Ukraine........ The very fact that those civilian were in harm way *SOLELY BECAUSE* of Russian invasion to their own country.....

lol, this is like the advance level of circle jerk........or inception level of deception........or may just be a stupid excuse.....






If you continue to attack, we will continue to respond.

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## Ali_Baba

*Russia has lost around 165 combat aircraft over Ukraine - so far.*









How Ukraine gave Putin a bloody nose – and rewrote the future of air power


More than 100 days into the war, Russia still doesn't have air superiority




www.telegraph.co.uk

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538489559830380544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538476415808638976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538477722472693760


Ali_Baba said:


> *Russia has lost around 165 combat aircraft over Ukraine - so far.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How Ukraine gave Putin a bloody nose – and rewrote the future of air power
> 
> 
> More than 100 days into the war, Russia still doesn't have air superiority
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.telegraph.co.uk



99% of that is drones like Zala and Orlan. No biggie.

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## northeast

MeFishToo said:


> Its actually sickening you keep reposting this russian propaganda about ukrainian forces using civilians as shields. They are defending their country and citizens, while Russia is using that lame excuse to flatten everything moving forward, because all advantage they have left is artillery power.


If they are only defending their citizens,then why donbass people want to break from ukraine in the first place? Those people who speak russian aren't 'citizen' to those nazis,right? Western propaganda is ridiculous.

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## Apollon

northeast said:


> If they are only defending their citizens,then why donbass people want to break from ukraine in the first place? Those people who speak russian aren't 'citizen' to those nazis,right? Western propaganda is ridiculous.



How you know donbass people want break from Ukraine? Why are there fights then? 


People aren stupid. They know full well living in russia leaves them in dead water with no development options


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

northeast said:


> If they are only defending their citizens,then why donbass people want to break from ukraine in the first place? Those people who speak russian aren't 'citizen' to those nazis,right? Western propaganda is ridiculous.



On top of that, Kiev regime shelling Donbas children for the past 8 years straight. That is what is called crime against humanity.



Apollon said:


> How you know donbass people want break from Ukraine? Why are there fights then?
> 
> 
> People aren stupid. They know full well living in russia leaves them in dead water with no development options



Why wouldn't there be fight? Americans had to fight to win freedom from British.

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## northeast

Apollon said:


> How you know donbass people want break from Ukraine? Why are there fights then?
> 
> 
> People aren stupid. They know full well living in russia leaves them in dead water with no development options


Better than living in poor ukraine while facing discremination from people who speak ukrainian.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

northeast said:


> Better than living in poor ukraine while facing discremination from people who speak ukrainian.



Ukraine has low living standards. Why would I live in a country that has no fuel for my car?

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## Apollon

northeast said:


> Better than living in poor ukraine while facing discremination from people who speak ukrainian.



Nope since Russia is poorer than Ukraine. And as russian you cant even travel and work sonewhere else.


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## ckf

MeFishToo said:


> Its actually sickening you keep reposting this russian propaganda about ukrainian forces using civilians as shields. They are defending their country and citizens, while Russia is using that lame excuse to flatten everything moving forward, because all advantage they have left is artillery power.


It's not propaganda, Mariupol defenders use civilians as human shield. In war time, u think civilian wants to be trapped in bunkers? Most of them would of fled already, and its up to Ukranian military to evacuate civilians from urban areas in the first place. It's telling that we keep hearing civilians trapped again and again in major defensive positions.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> I hope you are aware that Russians deploying whatever garbages are in their reserves (like t62s) mean they have suffered such staggering losses that they have to deploy those antiquities,meaning their more modern hardwares were decimated.




Nah, according to these reports, your beloved Ukrops are suffering heavy casualties


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538472289464877057
With respect to the T-62s, if they're available in the Russian inventory and you have a war going on, they aught to be used. Especially, now that Russians are about to seize the whole Dombas region.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Kh-29D which uses imaging infrared guidance, fired from Su-35 / 30 / 34 attack jets


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538489559830380544

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538478739251765248
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538472689903476738





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538434146321715201

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538478739251765248



That's a fake twitter offensive.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538509267334049792

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## TNT

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538271015037505536



Thousands of such psycho nazis bewn caught and yet the westerners believe there are no nazis in ukraine. Europe is basically nazi by nature, they r just hiding and suppressing their reality.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538528617906446338

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## TNT

sammuel said:


> The day the war started in Ukraine , wheat prices jumped by 50% .
> 
> Pretending this does not effect Somalia is a blunt lie. Somalia could barely feed it's people as it is. Without western aid Somalians would starve. Gratitude would be the more normal response .
> 
> If a someone countryman where in danger of hunger , because off this stupid and unnecessary war , one would expect this person , to wish and pray for this war to be over as soon as possible.
> 
> Not to throw oil on the flames , and indulge himself in war propaganda reports.
> 
> 
> Doing fine you say :
> 
> Thousands of Somalis at Risk of Starving to Death, Aid Groups Say​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Somalis who fled drought-stricken areas walk next to a cluster of makeshift shelters at a camp for the displaced on the outskirts of Mogadishu, Somalia, June 4, 2022. Almost a million where displaced because of the drought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thousands of Somalis at Risk of Starving to Death, Aid Groups Say
> 
> 
> Drought in Horn of Africa has hit Somalia hardest, with UN reporting nearly half of its 16 million people face crisis-level food insecurity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.voanews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~
> ~



So ur cheerleading for Ukraine is not going well so u talk ofsomalia? Shows u r a lowlife rat, a gutter cockroach. Soon u zionists and hindus will taste the same as ukraine.



Apollon said:


> Be careful your propaganda is banned in EU. Do you want me do an experiment? I can send your posts to the german authorities and through EU laws you get punished. I got a guy on Facebook with this already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They lost their flagship and i assume their counter instruments simply dont work.



Didn't u scumbags claim to be champions of freedom of speech? Why u dont like free speech anymore? U r the scumbag who proudly talks about killing women and children, maybe we should report that to german authorities.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538539257551237120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538526136153649152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538502176166797313

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Nah, according to these reports, your beloved Ukrops are suffering heavy casualties
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538472289464877057
> With respect to the T-62s, if they're available in the Russian inventory and you have a war going on, they aught to be used. Especially, now that Russians are about to seize the whole Dombas region.



Who gives a shit about what the russians announce,of course no evidence provided as always. They strike civilian areas then claim they struck a gathering of Ukrainian troops and killed 2 trillion of them lmao.

Your beloved Russians have only made marginal gains in the donbass despite outnumbering the Ukrainians on every terms especially on artillery.

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## northeast

Vergennes said:


> Who gives a shit about what the russians announce,of course no evidence provided as always. They strike civilian areas then claim they struck a gathering of Ukrainian troops and killed 2 trillion of them lmao.
> 
> Your beloved Russians have only made marginal gains in the donbass despite outnumbering the Ukrainians on every terms especially on artillery.


I remember western propaganda machines have reported russian is running out of ammo,now turns out the truth is Ukrainian is running out of weapons despite NATO sending all weapons they could send? Your propaganda bullshit is remarkble. No wonder you can hide behind of your propaganda machine,their face is as thick as a wall.

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## Ali_Baba

Ukrainian Teen helps bast 20 Russian Tanks ...​








A Ukrainian Teen’s Remote-Controlled Drone Helped His Military Destroy 20 Russian Tanks


The teen and his dad worked together to relay coordinates of Russian tanks to the Ukrainian military.




www.popularmechanics.com

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## TNT

Ali_Baba said:


> Ukrainian Teen helps bast 20 Russian Tanks ...​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Ukrainian Teen’s Remote-Controlled Drone Helped His Military Destroy 20 Russian Tanks
> 
> 
> The teen and his dad worked together to relay coordinates of Russian tanks to the Ukrainian military.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.popularmechanics.com



Typical cheap western propaganda. Teenager helped destroy tanks, old women took out 10soldiers, kids killed scores of russian soldiers.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Does Poland plan to seize Western Ukraine?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538549318189195264

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## Paul2

Russian lost major ammo dumps this week, they predictably pushed infantry forward, anticipating them soon running out of fire support.

Izyum direction sees as much fighting now as Severo.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538550802725339138

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## Vergennes

northeast said:


> I remember western propaganda machines have reported russian is running out of ammo,now turns out the truth is Ukrainian is running out of weapons despite NATO sending all weapons they could send? Your propaganda bullshit is remarkble. No wonder you can hide behind of your propaganda machine,their face is as thick as a wall.



Come on you know NATO support is already minimal yet they have dealt important blows to the Russian army. If NATO support was full,Ukraine would already have hundreds of jets,HIMARS,tanks,anti ship missiles,air defence systems etc...

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Paul2 said:


> Russian lost major ammo dumps this week, they predictably pushed infantry forward, anticipating them soon running out of fire support.
> 
> Izyum direction sees as much fighting now as Severo.



Russia bombed Ukraine's oil refinery. No fuel. No offensive.



Vergennes said:


> Come on you know NATO support is already minimal yet they have dealt important blows to the Russian army. If NATO support was full,Ukraine would already have hundreds of jets,HIMARS,tanks,anti ship missiles,air defence systems etc...



NATO can't even beat a bunch of rag tag Taliban in Afghanistan let alone Russia.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538555883860504576
Boom



Paul2 said:


> Russian lost major ammo dumps this week, they predictably pushed infantry forward, anticipating them soon running out of fire support.
> 
> Izyum direction sees as much fighting now as Severo.




Russian pace has slowed even further, and their infantry are getting obliterated.. New Ukrainian heavy artillery pieces are making a big difference.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538564772442124288

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## MeFishToo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538365617132253185
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538365642243465218


Its actually sickening you keep reposting this russian propaganda about ukrainian forces using civilians as shields. They are defending their country and citizens, while Russia is using that lame excuse to flatten everything moving forward, because all advantage they have left is artillery power.


northeast said:


> If they are only defending their citizens,then why donbass people want to break from ukraine in the first place? Those people who speak russian aren't 'citizen' to those nazis,right? Western propaganda is ridiculous.


You only belive Donbas wants to break away because a mix of russian forces and russian backed seperatists took control of minor parts of the area holding the population hostage, and then claimed to represent the entire region. Youre parotting russian propaganda as if it holds any truth.

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## MeFishToo

ckf said:


> It's not propaganda, Mariupol defenders use civilians as human shield. In war time, u think civilian wants to be trapped in bunkers? Most of them would of fled already, and its up to Ukranian military to evacuate civilians from urban areas in the first place. It's telling that we keep hearing civilians trapped again and again in major defensive positions.


You sure do know how civilians react when an invading force enters their country, dont you? They didnt have time to evacuate Mariupol. Even the ukrainian army got trapped because of the russian advance in the south. The civilians didnt want to be “evacuated” to Russia, and the russians didnt want to let them leave for Ukraine.
But no, lets pretend the russian narrative is the truth, eventhough no independent media is allowed to operate in Russia or occupied areas in Ukraine, and label anything reported from the ukrainian side of the front lies and fake news.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538573737469026306

The Russian losses at this front have been brutal. Ukrainian trench network at Zolote is extensive.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538540401040277507

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538555000460390401

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538574603982880768

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538574897164820481

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538575498003070976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538577630219456512

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## ckf

MeFishToo said:


> You sure do know how civilians react when an invading force enters their country, dont you? They didnt have time to evacuate Mariupol. Even the ukrainian army got trapped because of the russian advance in the south. The civilians didnt want to be “evacuated” to Russia, and the russians didnt want to let them leave for Ukraine.
> But no, lets pretend the russian narrative is the truth, eventhough no independant media is allowed to operate in Russia or occupied areas in Ukraine, and label anything reported from the ukrainian side of the front lies and fake news.


U just don't get my point, two issues here: 1. Competence of Ukraine logistics, so far Russian advances have been very slow, and we see that in the map updates. But Ukraine refuse to withdraw troops and Civilians in major urban areas. Lyschansk is next, and according to you Russians are advancing too fast. That's BS. Siege of Mariupool took month. Severondonesk has been in the crossfire for Months.... Yet Civilians still traped again and again. My questions is why Ukraine military refuse to evacuate these civilians in these plants prior to being surronded when they had time to acts 2. Ukraine tactics, if Ukraine had time to evacuate the civilians, then the question is would these civilians volunteer to hide in these plants knowing the state of the war? Common sense tells me no, and these civilians are being arbitrarily held in these bunkers. Ukraine oligarchs thought sanction would hurt Russia and if these plants held out long enough, Ukraine eventually will be able to send in the cavalry and recapture these cities. But to hold on, and win the war in global sentiment, civilians trapped in these plants stall sieges and can drag on the siege as long as possible.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538581482058530816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538581491562729473

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538581495740252160


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## SalarHaqq

Apollon said:


> Be careful your propaganda is banned in EU. Do you want me do an experiment? I can send your posts to the german authorities and through EU laws you get punished. I got a guy on Facebook with this already.



@WebMaster @LeGenD @waz @Irfan Baloch

Not content with expressing their controversial narratives (which often got them banned), this user is trying to silence me now by threatening legal action against my person. I had added the user to my ignore list by the way, but I became curious as to who it was that TNT was quoting and so I temporarily lifted the ignore option.

I haven't broken forum rules and am not even commenting very often in this thread. They are attempting to forcibly impose a one-sided, single view of the conflict under discussion. Is this the purpose of the present thread? Is it admissible for users to try and stifle free speech here through these sorts of threats?

Thank you.

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## jhungary

ckf said:


> U just don't get my point, two issues here: 1. Competence of Ukraine logistics, so far Russian advances have been very slow, and we see that in the map updates. But Ukraine refuse to withdraw troops and Civilians in major urban areas. Siege of Mariupool took month. Severondonesk has been in the crossfire for Months.... Yet Civilians still traped again and again. My questions is why Ukraine military refuse to evacuate these civilians in these plants prior to being surronded when they had time to acts 2. Ukraine tactics, if Ukraine had time to evacuate the civilians, then the question is would these civilians volunteer to hide in these plants knowing the state of the war? Common sense tells me no, and these civilians are being arbitrarily held in these bunkers. Ukraine oligarchs thought sanction would hurt Russia and if these plants held out long enough, Ukraine eventually will be able to send in the cavalry and recapture these cities. But to hold on, and win the war in global sentiment, civilians trapped in these plants stall sieges and can drag on the conflict as long as possible.


1.) Sieverodonetsk is NOT trapped. Russian only surrounded the area from 3 sides. The South is open, which mean even those bridges were blown, civilian CAN BE evacuated by boat or anything that can cross river IF there is a Lull in fighting. Problem is, that Lull never happened.

2.) Common sense is not everyone wanted to leave their home. Some people have their entire life in that area and they aren't just going to pick up and leave. Ukraine armed force has been evacuated people since May, there are plenty of video Ukrainian Police try to have people living in those area and refused to leave. You are talking about a city of 100,000 and only around 500 left behind. There are ALWAYS going to be someone who don't want to leave. its the same deal when we siege Iraq, some people leave, if they don't have anywhere to go, those people are going to stay. The only different between We in Iraq and Russian in Ukraine is we don't use artillery and bomb their home intentionally to flatten the city, if we do the same thing Russian done, Baghdad would have been flatten by us.

Dude, you don't know shit about conflict in general and how civilian react to conflict.....Why those civilian was in the plant in the first place? That's because Russian destroyed their home. Russian don't care if civilian was in the plant, they would bomb it exactly the same way they did as we can see in Mariupol

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## Lehrasap

I want to ask this question from all the supporters of Putin:

(1) Does Putin allow the Chechen population to teach their children in schools and colleges in Chechnian language? 
If not, why then Putin demands that Ukraine let the Russian population in Ukraine decide to have Russian as first language in schools and colleges?

(2) What rights do Chechnians have, which have not been given to Russian population in Ukraine that Putin wants them to be separated from Ukraine?

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## ckf

jhungary said:


> 1.) Sieverodonetsk is NOT trapped. Russian only surrounded the area from 3 sides. The South is open, which mean even those bridges were blown, civilian CAN BE evacuated by boat or anything that can cross river IF there is a Lull in fighting. Problem is, that Lull never happened.
> 
> 2.) Common sense is not everyone wanted to leave their home. Some people have their entire life in that area and they aren't just going to pick up and leave. Ukraine armed force has been evacuated people since May, there are plenty of video Ukrainian Police try to have people living in those area and refused to leave. You are talking about a city of 100,000 and only around 500 left behind. There are ALWAYS going to be someone who don't want to leave. its the same deal when we siege Iraq, some people leave, if they don't have anywhere to go, those people are going to stay. The only different between We in Iraq and Russian in Ukraine is we don't use artillery and bomb their home intentionally to flatten the city, if we do the same thing Russian done, Baghdad would have been flatten by us.
> 
> Dude, you don't know shit about conflict in general and how civilian react to conflict.....Why those civilian was in the plant in the first place? That's because Russian destroyed their home. Russian don't care if civilian was in the plant, they would bomb it exactly the same way they did as we can see in Mariupol


Stop this blah blah, it's all Russia's fault bs. If Severondonesk is not trapped, why can't they evacuate the civilians then? War is obscene. Putin is evil maniac, I agree. Russia has no right to invade and Ukranians has right to self defense, yes I agree. But for an Army to use civilians as human shield to win international sympathy is morally corrupt, whatever the circumstance. It's all going to back fire on Zelensky and the Oligarchs one day. I wish to end this war and end this senseless suffering. All u care about is the West narrative "lets fcuk the Russians and regardless of human lives and tragedies/sufferings of Ukrainians lives".

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Apollon

SalarHaqq said:


> @WebMaster @LeGenD @waz
> 
> Not content with expressing their controversial narratives (which often got them banned) in normal discussions, this user - whom I had added to my ignore list by the way (I became curious as to who it was that TNT was quoting on this, and temporarily lifted the ignore option) is trying to silence me now by threatening legal action against my person.
> 
> I haven't broken forum rules, nor am I aware of any EU law that bans the content of my comments.
> 
> They are attempting to forcibly impose a one-sided, single view of the conflict under discussion here. Is this the purpose of the present thread? Is it admissible for users to try and stifle free speech here through these sorts of threats?
> 
> Thank you.



I simply warn you that what you post is banned by german law. Since you reside in EU you put yourself in great danger of legal prosecution.


Its not threat. Its fact 










Germany to prosecute use of ‘Z’ symbol to support Russia’s war


Move raises questions over whether measure can be implemented and draws accusations of tokenism.




www.google.com


----------



## ckf

Apollon said:


> I simply warn you that what you post is banned by german law. Since you reside in EU you put yourself in great danger of legal prosecution.
> 
> 
> Its not threat. Its fact
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Germany to prosecute use of ‘Z’ symbol to support Russia’s war
> 
> 
> Move raises questions over whether measure can be implemented and draws accusations of tokenism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


What happen to free speech in Germany?

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## MeFishToo

ckf said:


> U just don't get my point, two issues here: 1. Competence of Ukraine logistics, so far Russian advances have been very slow, and we see that in the map updates. But Ukraine refuse to withdraw troops and Civilians in major urban areas. Lyschansk is next, and according to you Russians are advancing too fast. That's BS. Siege of Mariupool took month. Severondonesk has been in the crossfire for Months.... Yet Civilians still traped again and again. My questions is why Ukraine military refuse to evacuate these civilians in these plants prior to being surronded when they had time to acts 2. Ukraine tactics, if Ukraine had time to evacuate the civilians, then the question is would these civilians volunteer to hide in these plants knowing the state of the war? Common sense tells me no, and these civilians are being arbitrarily held in these bunkers. Ukraine oligarchs thought sanction would hurt Russia and if these plants held out long enough, Ukraine eventually will be able to send in the cavalry and recapture these cities. But to hold on, and win the war in global sentiment, civilians trapped in these plants stall sieges and can drag on the siege as long as possible.


Mariupol was bombarded from day one and surrounded by russian troops in less than a week. The civilians (including the army) had no opportunity or time to evacuate. Most people do leave the contested areas in time, if they have somewhere to go or even the means to get away. 
But you are judging the ukrainian authorities unable to rescue those civilians trapped in places being destroyed by the same forces that for months have been trying to destroy the entire infrastructure in the country - that is ridiculous.

And civilians being trapped doesnt prevent any russian advances, because in reality they dont care. They fire at anything, and its surroundings, if they suspect ukrainian forces are there. And then claim any civilian casualties being the fault of the ukrainians.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538596193026056192

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

ckf said:


> Stop this blah blah, it's all Russia's fault bs. If Severondonesk is not trapped, why can't they evacuate the civilians then? War is obscene. Putin is evil maniac, I agree. Russia has no right to invade and Ukranians has right to self defense, yes I agree. But for an Army to use civilians as human shield to win international sympathy is morally corrupt, whatever the circumstance. It's all going to back fire on Zelensky and the Oligarchs one day. I wish to end this war and end this senseless suffering. All u care about is the West narrative "lets fcuk the Russians and regardless of human lives and tragedies/sufferings of Ukrainians lives".


Was I just talking to myself?

*SOME PEOPLE WON'T LEAVE.*

People build their life there, and there are no where else for them to go, think about it if this is you, you know no one in your city and *EVERYTHING* you have earn and own were at your home, and you have no where else to go, would you live in a tent for the next months because someone is invading your home? 

But then let's see who am I talking to? You fled your home country even before there is a war (There are virtually no way you can be a Canadian born). You probably just fly off the earth the first anything happened to you. Not everyone think like you. I have been in a real war, and I have been in Ukraine to know what's going on, have you?

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## ckf

MeFishToo said:


> Mariupol was bombarded from day one and surrounded by russian troops in less than a week. The civilians (including the army) had no opportunity or time to evacuate. Most people do leave the contested areas in time, if they have somewhere to go or even the means to get away.
> But you are judging the ukrainian authorities unable to rescue those civilians trapped in places being destroyed by the same forces that for months have been trying to destroy the entire infrastructure in the country - that is ridiculous.
> 
> And civilians being trapped doesnt prevent any russian advances, because in reality they dont care. They fire at anything, and its surroundings, if they suspect ukrainian forces are there. And then claim any civilian casualties being the fault of the ukrainians.


That's nonsense, the siege of mariupol took month, there were civilians all over the city. Why keep these people in the plant. I don't condone Russian attacks of Ukrainian infrastructure, but that's war. I don't condone Ukrainian using civilians as human shield as well, so lets keep the perspectives clear. War is a dirty business.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538603052889939971

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538591159437639684

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538588878226997248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538581174351810561

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538581421652156417

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538469703898873857

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538601543884226560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538604815898578946


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538603052889939971
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538591159437639684
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538588878226997248
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538581174351810561
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538581421652156417


With all these videos that I've seen of later Russian combat... I've learned that the Russian army while at the start of the war were all over the place but as things have progressed thet have shown much more competency.... Lesson for everyone to never count your eggs before they hatch and to never underestimate the enemy.
It is also shows that Russians were falsely expecting massive support from Ukrainian citizens but got a cold shoulder especially from the western part of the country.
One more thing, these KA-52s seem to me are one mean machine... we haven't seen many mi-28s... I wonder why...


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Iron Shrappenel said:


> One more thing, these KA-52s seem to me are one mean machine... we haven't seen many mi-28s... I wonder why...



Alligator has radar which is good at detecting and tracking ground targets from long range. Alligator is more aerodynamic with retractable landing gear. Also, Alligator has ejection seats and more than twice the combat radius of Havoc. Havoc on the other hand has separate EO for both pilot and WSO like WZ-10, unlike Alligator and AH-1Z which only have EO for the WSO.

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## Iron Shrappenel

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Alligator has radar which is good at detecting and tracking ground targets from long range. Alligator is more aerodynamic with retractable landing gear. Also, Alligator has ejection seats and more than twice the combat radius of Havoc. Havoc on the other hand has separate EO for both pilot and WSO like WZ-10, unlike Alligator and AH-1Z which only have EO for the WSO.


The weapons package for the Alligator could be better in my opinion... More smart munitions and stand off weapons... Sceptical of the effectiveness of "Lobbing missiles in a general direction " tactic.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538608332218458114

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538603052889939971


Now youre quoting someone saying places being liberated from kafirs.. You do realize us in the west live en Dar al-Harb, and your friend in this picture consider you a harbi and thereby an enemy?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538624378044391426


----------



## MeFishToo

ckf said:


> That's nonsense, the siege of mariupol took month, there were civilians all over the city. Why keep these people in the plant. I don't condone Russian attacks of Ukrainian infrastructure, but that's war. I don't condone Ukrainian using civilians as human shield as well, so lets keep the perspectives clear. War is a dirty business.


The city was surrounded the 2th of march. Doesnt matter how long the ukrainian forces fought of the russian invaders. The civilians couldnt get out.
Those people took refuge in the plant as a last resort. The russians destroyed their homes, and was shelling the city. Besides lots of people tried to flee, but was stopped by russian troops if they were leaving towards Ukraine.


----------



## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538591159437639684


A good example of the russian modus operandi. My estimate is they just shelled about 100.000 squaremeters while the primary target was a house of maybe 150 squrameters.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538624925266755584


----------



## MeFishToo

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538624925266755584


After the shot, how much time is needed to recalibrate the system? I know nothing about artillery.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538555883860504576
> Boom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian pace has slowed even further, and their infantry are getting obliterated.. New Ukrainian heavy artillery pieces are making a big difference.




"*When the Lies Come Home*

After lying for months, the media are preparing the public for Ukraine’s military collapse."









When the Lies Come Home - The American Conservative


After lying for months, the media are preparing the public for Ukraine’s military collapse.




www.theamericanconservative.com

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Who gives a shit about what the russians announce,of course no evidence provided as always. They strike civilian areas then claim they struck a gathering of Ukrainian troops and killed 2 trillion of them lmao.



Evidence? Ukraine is getting de-nazified. You can see it below for yourself. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538550802725339138

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538525941592375296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538649234353840128



Vergennes said:


> Your beloved Russians have only made marginal gains in the donbass despite outnumbering the Ukrainians on every terms especially on artillery.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538658193890500608

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538658436484841472


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

SalarHaqq said:


> @WebMaster @LeGenD @waz @Irfan Baloch
> 
> Not content with expressing their controversial narratives (which often got them banned), this user is trying to silence me now by threatening legal action against my person. I had added the user to my ignore list by the way, but I became curious as to who it was that TNT was quoting and so I temporarily lifted the ignore option.
> 
> I haven't broken forum rules and am not even commenting very often in this thread. They are attempting to forcibly impose a one-sided, single view of the conflict under discussion. Is this the purpose of the present thread? Is it admissible for users to try and stifle free speech here through these sorts of threats?
> 
> Thank you.




@WebMaster @LeGenD @waz @Irfan Baloch

Mods, this is a serious matter. Why would this guy @Apollon be allowed to threaten another forum member in order to silence him? You have one group of people, especially those that support Ukraine, who want to silence the rest of us who don't agree with them. The rules in the forum needs to be enforced evenly.





F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538658193890500608
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538658436484841472




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538410347928887297
That is the deputy defense minister of Ukraine stating that those "M777 field howitzers are unsuitable for long-term use".

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> That is the deputy defense minister of Ukraine stating that those "M777 field howitzers are unsuitable for long-term use".



Poor American steel quality results in M777 barrel wearing down too fast. 100 M777 only lasts less than 1 year.

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## The SC

The Pentagon publishes a complete list of weapons provided to Ukraine:


▫️ More than 1,400 Stinger mobile air defense systems
▫️More than 6,500 Javelin anti-tank missiles
▫️More than 20,000 other anti-tank weapons
▫️More than 700 Switchblade kamikaze drones.


▫️126 155mm howitzers and 260,000 artillery shells
▫️108 tactical vehicles to tow 155mm howitzers
▫️19 Tactical Vehicles to Evacuate Equipment
▫️ MLRS HIMARS launchers and their ammunition
▫️ 20 Mi-17 . helicopters
▫️Hundreds of highly mobile and multi-purpose armored vehicles.


▫️armored personnel carrier 200 M113
▫️ More than 7000 small arms.
▫️ More than 50 million rounds of small arms.
▫️ 75,000 sets of armor and helmets.
▫️121 Phoenix Ghost UAV System.
Laser-guided missile systems.
▫️ Puma unmanned aerial systems.


Unmanned coastal defense ships.
▫️22 anti-battery radars (weapon tracker).
▫️ 4 anti-mortar radars.
▫️ 4 radars for air surveillance.
▫️ 2 coastal defense systems "Harpoon missiles".
M18A1 anti-personnel mines.
▫️S-4 Explosives and Explosive Equipment.
▫️ Communication systems.


▫️Th ousands of night vision, thermal imaging and laser rangefinders.
▫️ Commercial satellite imagery services.
▫️ Protection equipment to dispose of explosive materials.
▫️ Chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear protection equipment.


▫️Medical supplies, including first aid kits.
Electronic warfare methods.
Field equipment and spare parts.
▫️ Funding for training, maintenance and support.


https://mil.in.ua/en/news/pentagon-publishes-full-list-of-weapons-provided-to-ukraine/



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538659775893979136

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## Hassan Al-Somal

De-nizafication of Ukraine is in full speed!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538647578241138688

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538644170943897600

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538549877860356100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538620743646420994

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538634044723843072

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538488009590460416
https://twitter.com/mdfzeh/status/1538622659767959552


The Joe Biden Effect. 👇 

https://twitter.com/mdfzeh/status/1538528064547725312

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538549318189195264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538406340657221632

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Here is a major in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, who graduated from the Odessa military school, served until 2003, mobilized again in 2022. He talks about combat losses, desertion, low morale in the 4th tank brigade. He's recently been captured by the Russian forces.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538612253796225024

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538491786707865600

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538666767395987458

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538659975815385089

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538660703460118528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538660714705035266

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538659391305654274

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538554018372505601

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538535251647074304

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## ckf

Apollon said:


> European head, not greek head.
> 
> 
> And no, i talk truth you are simply uneducated.
> 
> 
> Here for you
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...QQFnoECAkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3KLAj1Kv6JErpgtxUvWwHQ
> 
> 
> German Russian pipelines were build 50 years ago against heavy critizism and even sanctions of USA. Putin destroyed what was build in 50 years which is crazy.
> 
> 
> On a basic thing, im european. You have zero knowledge in european history. Dont talk bullshit where you know nothing about.


Let me give u a history lesson, British Empire(US extension hedgemony) was never Europe's ally. French and British fought the 100 yrs war, Napoleonic wars, WWI, and WWII. Why are EU member countries part of NATO so eager to go to war(even a proxy war) with Russia when ultimately US hedgemony/British interest is to keep EU in check. Russia has always been the Swing force of war. So in geopolitics, Germany economic alignment with Russia is always in its own interest and that's why Merkle so eager to sign Norstream 2 pipelines. Germany invasion of Russia in wwii was for cheap energy. Now fast forward to today, even with renewable enery, oil and gas still critical for modern industrial production because wind and solar are not reliable energy.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538676889400786949

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538658427387490305


Spoiler: Graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538655368829624320




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538655086167085056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538633958346432512

Reactions: Like Like:
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## sammuel

SalarHaqq said:


> Is this the purpose of the present thread? Is it admissible for users to try and stifle free speech here through these sorts of threats?



Awfully sensitive about freedom of speech , when it comes to you , aren't you ?

Strange , you don't seem too bothered about Russians being arrested the moment they raise a sign to protest the war.








~

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538627787686387717

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538508839913414657

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538507609912791040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538506665342943232

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538506160185155585

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538505674870636546

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538503154207268865

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538503038700232704

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## _Nabil_

sammuel said:


> Awfully sensitive about freedom of speech , when it comes to you , aren't you ?
> 
> Strange , you don't seem too bothered about Russians being arrested the moment they raise a sign to protest the war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


Hey Zio Troll, he's talking about *his* Freedom of speech in this *forum*!!!

You can go to Russia and show Putin your solidarity with that girl, easy to do ....

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538502620452687872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538502019811622912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538499734012411904

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538497055588503554

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## _Nabil_

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Ouch, the Zionist Pajeet troll is feeling uneasy here. @SalarHaqq was referring to his freedom of speech and online threats he received in the forum.
> 
> Who cares how you feel about Putin and Russia. Go and complain about Putin as much as you want, and no one will silence you here.


What about PDF members raise for him the ticket to Moscow?

$10 each member, we get rid of him once for all 😊, it's worth the try, don't you think?



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/


Fake, just delete it ✌️

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538623179437985792


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538688881394057216


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

_Nabil_ said:


> What about PDF members raise for him the ticket to Moscow?
> 
> $10 each member, we get rid of him once for all 😊, it's worth the try, don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> _Nabil_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about PDF members raise for him the ticket to Moscow?
> 
> $10 each member, we get rid of him once for all 😊, it's worth the try, don't you think?
Click to expand...


ROFL 

The Pajeet Zionist troll is all talk and won't dare to go to Russsia. 




_Nabil_ said:


> _Nabil_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fake, just delete it
Click to expand...


Deleted. 




_Nabil_ said:


> _Nabil_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> ✌️
Click to expand...

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538496679963463682

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538544449499930624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538494469363867648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538591159437639684

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538577736654065664

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## sammuel

_Nabil_ said:


> Hey Zio Troll, he's talking about *his* Freedom of speech in this *forum*!!!



I see. So freedom of speech is something worthy of protecting in this forum , but not outside.

~

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538667291407175686


----------



## Dalit

Western support for Kyiv must not cease, say NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg and British Prime Minister Boris Johnson | CNN


The West must prepare for a long war in Ukraine as Russia makes incremental gains in a furious battle to control the country's east, the NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg and British Prime Minister Boris Johnson have both said.




edition.cnn.com





I am glad I have sold my shares. All I can see is an economic meltdown accelerated by the war. Get ready for a lengthy conflict folks. This isn't ending anytime soon.

"We must prepare for the fact that it could take years. We must not let up in supporting Ukraine," the Nato chief said in an interview with German newspaper Bild.

"Even if the costs are high, not only for military support, also because of rising energy and food prices."









Ukraine war could last for years, warns Nato chief


Jens Stoltenberg says the costs of war are high but the price of letting Moscow win is even greater.



www.bbc.com





We all know what he is hinting at here. The European economies should embrace themselves for tough years ahead.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538634761278787589


----------



## KendoKhan

Russians are getting a hammering in Ukraine. 😂

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## Dalit

KendoKhan said:


> Russians are getting a hammering in Ukraine. 😂



You are misinformed. If the Russians are getting hammered they wouldn't be controlling many Ukrainian cities. The Russians have incurred losses, but the gains have been astronomical.

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## Solidify

KendoKhan said:


> Russians are getting a hammering in Ukraine. 😂


+50 Ukrainian Officers Generals killed in missile strike 


https://www.rt.com/russia/557428-50-ukrainian-generals-officers-killed-russia/

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

frigate shooting cruise missiles


----------



## Dalit

Solidify said:


> +50 Ukrainian Officers Generals killed in missile strike
> 
> 
> https://www.rt.com/russia/557428-50-ukrainian-generals-officers-killed-russia/



Little by little the Russians are controlling more Ukrainian land. The Europeans have already admitted that this is a long battle. Russia won't bow down before all goals are met.

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## northeast

Vergennes said:


> Come on you know NATO support is already minimal yet they have dealt important blows to the Russian army. If NATO support was full,Ukraine would already have hundreds of jets,HIMARS,tanks,anti ship missiles,air defence systems etc...


Well,what are you waiting for if NATO can send more weapons? Are you waiting for russian get what he want,or simply don't want to send more weapons? Tiktok,time is running out.

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## patero

Solidify said:


> +50 Ukrainian Officers Generals killed in missile strike
> 
> 
> https://www.rt.com/russia/557428-50-ukrainian-generals-officers-killed-russia/


I'm going out on a limb here and guessing, given the source is RT, this story is probably complete bull crap. How did the Russians determine what they hit with such veracity? Their intel isn't that good.


----------



## Dalit

patero said:


> I'm going out on a limb here and guessing, given the source is RT, this story is probably complete bull crap. How did the Russians determine what they hit with such veracity? Their intel isn't that good.



Can we conclude the same for Western sources reporting on the conflict? Why isn't Russian intel not good? Thus far the Russians haven't made any exaggerated claims. Many claims made by Russia have at times even been verified by the Americans.

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## Dalit

Ukraine warns of war: Kyiv warns of Russian escalation during EU bid


EU leaders will vote on Kyiv's candidate status at a summit in Brussels later this week.



www.bbc.com





Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky has warned Russia will intensify its attacks on his country in the coming days, as Kyiv awaits news on its bid to join the EU.

More escalation of attacks.

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## jhungary

Solidify said:


> +50 Ukrainian Officers Generals killed in missile strike
> 
> 
> https://www.rt.com/russia/557428-50-ukrainian-generals-officers-killed-russia/


lol Considering Ukrainian billet only exactly have 50 general within the Ukrainian Armed Force (23 Colonel General + 18 Lieutenant General + 9 Major General)......So are you saying they are ALL killed?

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## ckf

Vergennes said:


> Come on you know NATO support is already minimal yet they have dealt important blows to the Russian army. If NATO support was full,Ukraine would already have hundreds of jets,HIMARS,tanks,anti ship missiles,air defence systems etc...


This war is getting intertwined into global cold war. China now openly defying western sanctions on airplane parts. Zelensky openly endorsed Taiwan independence. I wouldn't be surprised if China go full board to assist Russia economically and militarily. Trade does not matter any more because dollar/euro has no value to trading partners due to unprecedented thievery by Washington, brinksmanship to ww3 is here. Ukraine citizens should really leave ASAP. We have the potential to see an all out drone war if China supply Russia with latest drones and ammunitions if US doesn't backdown. Ukraine first, Taiwan next. I amstill hopeful all parties stay sane and avoid direct confrontation. 








China to Supply Spare Parts for Russian Airlines


The Chinese Ambassador to Moscow has stated that China is ready to supply Russian airlines with parts.




airwaysmag.com

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## jhungary

patero said:


> I'm going out on a limb here and guessing, given the source is RT, this story is probably complete bull crap. How did the Russians determine what they hit with such veracity? Their intel isn't that good.


I can do you one better.

Ukrainian Armed Force (Which is the one that RT specifying in this article) only have 50 general officer billing, with another 21 or so serving the interior ministry in what our equivalent to Joint Chief of Staff capacity. That news means every general in UAF is killed in one single strike.....



https://www.rt.com/russia/557428-50-ukrainian-generals-officers-killed-russia/





> _“More than *50 generals and officers of the Ukrainian Armed Forces *were killed,”_ the statement outlined.



LOL.....Sure......

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## Dalit

ckf said:


> This war is getting intertwined into global cold war. China now openly defying western sanctions on airplane parts. Zelensky openly endorsed Taiwan independence. I wouldn't be surprised if China go full board to assist Russia economically and militarily. Trade does not matter any more, brinksmanship to ww3 is here. Ukraine citizens should really leave ASAP. We have the potential to see an all out drone war if China supply Russia with latest drones and ammunition's if US and China doesn't backdown. Ukraine first, Taiwan next.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China to Supply Spare Parts for Russian Airlines
> 
> 
> The Chinese Ambassador to Moscow has stated that China is ready to supply Russian airlines with parts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> airwaysmag.com



Where are the Ukrainians going to go? Surely not all can leave.


----------



## ckf

Dalit said:


> Where are the Ukrainians going to go? Surely not all can leave.


Men/deserters can go to Russia, lol. Ukraine has law against men leaving and Poland/Romania are enforcing it. Women and children going to EU states.


----------



## letsrock

Apollon said:


> On a basic thing, im european. You have zero knowledge in european history. Dont talk bullshit where you know nothing about.



The Europe that you currently have - where hyper nationalists are not routinely murdering each other with one war or other (first world war, second world war and so many intermediary wars) or developing racist theories against the world or within europeans themselves - is largely built on russian muscle and sacrifice in 1939-45.

It was Soviets who ended facism in Europe and bought civlization which allows a greek (if really true) jump up and down that you are a european like a german or enlish is.

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## Viet

ckf said:


> This war is getting intertwined into global cold war. China now openly defying western sanctions on airplane parts. Zelensky openly endorsed Taiwan independence. I wouldn't be surprised if China go full board to assist Russia economically and militarily. Trade does not matter any more because dollar/euro has no value to trading partners due to unprecedented thievery by Washington, brinksmanship to ww3 is here. Ukraine citizens should really leave ASAP. We have the potential to see an all out drone war if China supply Russia with latest drones and ammunitions if US doesn't backdown. Ukraine first, Taiwan next. I amstill hopeful all parties stay sane and avoid direct confrontation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China to Supply Spare Parts for Russian Airlines
> 
> 
> The Chinese Ambassador to Moscow has stated that China is ready to supply Russian airlines with parts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> airwaysmag.com


Will China provide Russia uncertified copies of western aircraft parts? Not that sanctioned Putin’s airliners drop out from the sky.



ckf said:


> Men/deserters can go to Russia, lol. Ukraine has law against men leaving and Poland/Romania are enforcing it. Women and children going to EU states.


I don’t think Ukraine men want to end up in Siberia gulags.


----------



## waz

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> @WebMaster @LeGenD @waz @Irfan Baloch
> 
> Mods, this is a serious matter. Why would this guy @Apollon be allowed to threaten another forum member in order to silence him? You have one group of people, especially those that support Ukraine, who want to silence the rest of us who don't agree with them. The rules in the forum needs to be enforced evenly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538410347928887297
> That is the deputy defense minister of Ukraine stating that those "M777 field howitzers are unsuitable for long-term use".



Interesting would like to see more on this.


----------



## sammuel

letsrock said:


> It was Soviets who ended facism in Europe and bought civlization



I Guess you missed the part where they enclaved half of Europe under and iron curtain.









Iron Curtain - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Apollon

letsrock said:


> The Europe that you currently have - where hyper nationalists are not routinely murdering each other with one war or other (first world war, second world war and so many intermediary wars) or developing racist theories against the world or within europeans themselves - is largely built on russian muscle and sacrifice in 1939-45.
> 
> It was Soviets who ended facism in Europe and bought civlization which allows a greek (if really true) jump up and down that you are a european like a german or enlish is.



Soviets were facists themself and had no civilisation. Stalin was not different to Hitler in any way. And it was american land lease that beat facism. They should have marched to moscow though and free eastern europe as well.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Lehrasap said:


> I want to ask this question from all the supporters of Putin:
> 
> (1) Does Putin allow the Chechen population to teach their children in schools and colleges in Chechnian language?
> If not, why then Putin demands that Ukraine let the Russian population in Ukraine decide to have Russian as first language in schools and colleges?
> 
> (2) What rights do Chechnians have, which have not been given to Russian population in Ukraine that Putin wants them to be separated from Ukraine?


The support of Putin is not about what is right and what is wrong.
It is about always taking the side of those that attack Western Values.
Ukraines desire to join EU for economic reasons and NATO to seek protection makes them the enemy of those that hate the West, part out of envy, and part out of anger that Western values are in conflict with their own, and still seems to be successful.
That makes them defend every dictator long past the time they are killed by their own people.
Logic reasoning will not affect them.

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## khansaheeb

Ukraine war: Russia becomes China's biggest oil supplier


Chinese energy giants have been ramping up imports of heavily discounted Russian oil in recent months.



www.bbc.com





Ukraine war: Russia becomes China's biggest oil supplier​*By Peter Hoskins*
Business reporter
Published3 hours ago
Share
Related Topics

Russia-Ukraine war





IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES
*Russia has become China's biggest supplier of oil as the country sold discounted crude to Beijing amid sanctions over the Ukraine war.*
Imports of Russian oil rose by 55% from a year earlier to a record level in May, displacing Saudi Arabia as China's biggest provider.
China has ramped up purchases of Russian oil despite demand dampened by Covid curbs and a slowing economy.
In February, China and Russia declared their friendship had "no limits".

And Chinese companies, including state refining giant Sinopec and state-run Zhenhua Oil, have increased their purchases of Russian crude in recent months after being offered heavy discounts as buyers in Europe and the US shunned Russian energy in line with sanctions over its war on Ukraine.
The imports into China, which include supplies pumped through the East Siberia Pacific Ocean pipeline and shipments by sea, totalled nearly 8.42m tonnes last month, according to data from the Chinese General Administration of Customs.

That pushed Saudi Arabia - formerly China's biggest source of crude oil - into second place with 7.82m tonnes.

Russia's economy buckles up for a bumpy ride
Russian gas boss says: 'Our product, our rules'
In March, the US and UK said they would ban Russian oil, while the European Union has been working towards ending its reliance on Russian gas, as the West steps up the economic response to the invasion of Ukraine.
At the time, US President Joe Biden said the move targeted "the main artery of Russia's economy".
Energy exports are a vital source of revenue for Russia but the move is also likely to impact Western consumers.
Last week, a report by the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air think tank said Russia earned almost $100bn (£82bn) in revenue from fossil fuel exports in the first 100 days of the country's invasion of Ukraine, despite a fall in exports in May.
The European Union made up 61% of these imports, worth approximately $59bn.

Overall, exports of Russian oil and gas are falling and Moscow's revenue from energy sales has also declined from a peak of well over $1bn a day in March.
But revenues still exceeded the cost of the Ukraine war during the first 100 days - with the CREA estimating that Russia is spending around $876m per day on the invasion.
Monday's figures also showed that China imported 260,000 tonnes of Iranian crude oil last month, its third shipment of Iran oil since last December.
China has continued to buy Iranian oil despite US sanctions on Tehran.

Media caption,
Watch: Ros Atkins on...Russian gas and oil
​

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> @WebMaster @LeGenD @waz @Irfan Baloch
> 
> Mods, this is a serious matter. Why would this guy @Apollon be allowed to threaten another forum member in order to silence him? You have one group of people, especially those that support Ukraine, who want to silence the rest of us who don't agree with them. The rules in the forum needs to be enforced evenly.



Personally, I do not know why you are not banned since You have violated Forum Rules multiple times. Perhaps mods are less strict than the rules indicated.
They just delete your violating posts.

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## Dalit

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538491786707865600
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538666767395987458



LOL McMaster. That fat old American general has found two new enemies to hate after Pakistan.

I am glad I could witness these delicious days where US hegemony is being challanged left and right. What an epic humiliation where the neocon Americans seem helpless. Writing therapy articles as an outlet LOL

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## A.P. Richelieu

waz said:


> Interesting would like to see more on this.


While there is plenty of trash in this forum from him, and many others,
I believe Apollon simply informed the member that Germany does not have full freedom of speech, and that certain ”speech” is prosecutable if the member who lives in Europe happens to travel to Germany.
So it is advise, more than a threat.

I might have read another post, of course,

Meanwhile, our Somalian friend who reported Apollon has at least 4 times published photos of dead Ukrainan soldiers, gloating about it.
Reported and posts removed, but no sign of a ban.
His continuous calling Ukrainans == Nazis is distasteful.
I would ask him to edit all old posts and remove such references.


----------



## Corax

sammuel said:


> I see. So freedom of speech is something worthy of protecting in this forum , but not outside.
> 
> ~



Rather like how the anti defamation league protect freedom of speech...except when it comes to anyone disagreeing with the fake jewish holocaust. But what to expect from an indian jew...couldn't get a worse combination.

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## RoadAmerica

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia bombed Ukraine's oil refinery. No fuel. No offensive.
> 
> 
> 
> NATO can't even beat a bunch of rag tag Taliban in Afghanistan let alone Russia.


Dude give it up with the rag tag taliban you have no idea what you’re talking about and look more stupid with every post


----------



## Paul2

Both sides are strongly preserving armour now.

Russian airforce on the other hand became much more active in Donbas. I believe firing of of some 2-3 star generals on the Russian side made them to fly into the SAM range.

They already lost quite a number of completely irreplaceable assets, and airforce is on the chopping board now too.


----------



## Soldier35

A Russian high-speed landing craft of the Caspian Flotilla was spotted off the coast of Sevastopol, possibly Russia has again begun preparations for a landing operation in Odessa. Project 21820 Dugong air cavity landing craft went into production in 2006. The boat has a jet propulsion and is able to move in shallow water, while developing a speed of 65 km / h.







The Russian Ministry of Defense showed the combat work of the calculation of the 220-mm MLRS "Hurricane" in Ukraine, the calculation of the installation receives target designation from the UAV "Orlan-10". The video shows the 9K57 Uragan version mounted on the ZIL-135LM chassis and put into service in 1975. In terms of the main characteristics of the Uragan MLRS, it significantly surpassed the B-21 Grad MLRS, the area of destruction increased 10 times and amounted to 42 hectares.






A massive missile strike by the Russian army destroyed the Shebelinsky gas and oil refinery in the village of Andreevka in the south of Kharkiv. The refinery supplied the armed forces of Ukraine with fuel. Judging by the size of the fire, it can be concluded that there is a sufficiently large amount of fuel reserves at the enterprise.

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## Foinikas

jamahir said:


> have reported @Apollon's post and hope for a permaban. His terrorizing of other members and psychopathy has gone on for too long. @Foinikas knows how Apollon would claim to champion Western-governments-enabled freedom of speech and supreme democracy in the Western bloc but here is Apollon doing everything opposite to his own claims.


What happened?


----------



## jamahir

Foinikas said:


> What happened?











Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


European head, not greek head. And no, i talk truth you are simply uneducated. Here for you...



defence.pk


----------



## Foinikas

Trango Towers said:


> Stupid Greek


Stop with the "Stupid Greek",you racist buffoon.

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## RoadAmerica

ckf said:


> This war is getting intertwined into global cold war. China now openly defying western sanctions on airplane parts. Zelensky openly endorsed Taiwan independence. I wouldn't be surprised if China go full board to assist Russia economically and militarily. Trade does not matter any more because dollar/euro has no value to trading partners due to unprecedented thievery by Washington, brinksmanship to ww3 is here. Ukraine citizens should really leave ASAP. We have the potential to see an all out drone war if China supply Russia with latest drones and ammunitions if US doesn't backdown. Ukraine first, Taiwan next. I amstill hopeful all parties stay sane and avoid direct confrontation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China to Supply Spare Parts for Russian Airlines
> 
> 
> The Chinese Ambassador to Moscow has stated that China is ready to supply Russian airlines with parts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> airwaysmag.com


Trade doesn’t matter anymore???
Chinas been in a recession, it will only get worse and they’ll need every customer they can sell too so yes trade does matter.


----------



## jamahir

@dbc, what's wrong ?

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## Iron Shrappenel

jamahir said:


> I have reported @Apollon's post and hope for a permaban. His terrorizing of other members and psychopathy has gone on for too long. @Foinikas knows how Apollon would claim to champion Western-governments-enabled freedom of speech and supreme democracy in the Western bloc but here is Apollon doing everything opposite to his own claims.
> 
> I too have received occasional threats from the Hindutvadis on the forum including of veiled violence and these are the same ones who claim that India is "The largest democracy in the world".
> 
> SalarHaqq, he may indeed report you to his atrocious government departments so you should engage with the sane members of European society - progressive groups. But I don't know about the longevity of such progressive groups because yesterday I told Apollon about how the pro-Russia former chancellor of Germany, Gerhard Schroder, almost had a ban against him speaking publicly about Ukraine in Germany and this was in 2014 ! And two pro-NATO German parties CDU and CSU want EU to impose sanctions on Gerhard much like how Apollon wants EU to impose social and socio-economic sanctions on you which can be various things - loss of internet access, removal from employment, loss of bank account etc against you and your family if you have them there and any friend or colleague of yours sympathetic to you. This is plain terrorism which NATO proudly excels at for the 74 years of its existence.
> 
> 
> 
> Many of these drug-taking-and-then-fighting Ukrainians must be doing it because they are being forced to fight on the threat of jail or death. Though some might be taking them to enhance ferocity and act as pain killer and in history such was part of some cultures - like the Rajputs and Nihang Sikhs in India.
> 
> And the Ukrainians cutting heads of their Russian / ally enemies either because of fanaticism or drug-induced enhanced fanaticism must be punished. @Vergennes @Wood @F-22Raptor @Beny Karachun @Get Ya Wig Split, see what psychopaths you and NATO support.
> 
> @_Nabil_ @RescueRanger


Lool what's the negative rating for ?

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## jamahir

Iron Shrappenel said:


> Lool what's the negative rating for ?



Yeah, I asked her just above you and she hasn't replied.  @LeGenD @Irfan Baloch @waz, please have a look at this post of mine with an unwarranted negative rating by @dbc.

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> What happened?



Nothing happened. I just informed that guy that he posts illegal stuff that falls under german legislation. Since he resides in the EU he can be brought to court if authorities catch him.


I gave him some legal advice. As usual @jamahir and co blow it up.



On the positive side, EU captured assets of russian billionaires worth 12.5 billion €









Gesperrtes Oligarchen-Vermögen in der EU soll sich seit April fast verdoppelt haben


Jachten, Immobilien oder Gemälde: Russische Milliardäre haben in großem Umfang Zugriff auf ihre Vermögen verloren. Zuletzt wurde laut einem Bericht deutlich mehr eingefroren – besonders Deutschland habe aufgeholt.




www.spiegel.de


----------



## MH.Yang

Apollon said:


> Nothing happened. I just informed that guy that he posts illegal stuff that falls under german legislation. Since he resides in the EU he can be brought to court if authorities catch him.
> 
> 
> I gave him some legal advice. As usual @jamahir and co blow it up.
> 
> 
> 
> On the positive side, EU captured assets of russian billionaires worth 12.5 billion €
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gesperrtes Oligarchen-Vermögen in der EU soll sich seit April fast verdoppelt haben
> 
> 
> Jachten, Immobilien oder Gemälde: Russische Milliardäre haben in großem Umfang Zugriff auf ihre Vermögen verloren. Zuletzt wurde laut einem Bericht deutlich mehr eingefroren – besonders Deutschland habe aufgeholt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.spiegel.de


BTW: Affected by China's economic sanctions, Lithuania's CPI has exceeded 20, and its inflation rate is second only to Turkey. But the USA did not give any support, and even the American media did not report the tragedy of Lithuania's economy. Is this what Americans pay for this loyal Baltic dog?
Lithuania fell into the present situation because it stepped on mines for the USA. Is it too ruthless for the USA to use the media to shield the current situation in Lithuania to avoid this problem?

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## Apollon

MH.Yang said:


> BTW: Affected by China's economic sanctions, Lithuania's CPI has exceeded 20, and its inflation rate is second only to Turkey. But the United States did not give any support, and even the American media did not report the tragedy of Lithuania's economy. Is this what Americans pay for this loyal Baltic dog?



Lithuania is in EU and immune against such things. Its like sanction a city. So try better.


----------



## MH.Yang

Apollon said:


> Lithuania is in EU and immune against such things. Its like sanction a city. So try better.


Greece is now also in the grip of inflation, with a CPI of about 10. That means inflation in Lithuania is twice as fast as yours. 
Sorry, I forgot that you are an Indian posing as a Greek.

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Nothing happened. I just informed that guy that he posts illegal stuff that falls under german legislation. Since he resides in the EU he can be brought to court if authorities catch him.
> 
> 
> I gave him some legal advice. As usual @jamahir and co blow it up.



Legal advise ??? This is like an Indian traditional family killing their daughter for the sake of "family honor".

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## Apollon

MH.Yang said:


> Greece is now also in the grip of inflation, with a CPI of about 10. That means inflation in Lithuania is twice as fast as yours.
> Sorry, I forgot that you are an Indian posing as a Greek.



Im half german, half greek. My father is German, mom Greek. Keep in mind that i see India as even more disgusting place than China. And that means something.

At least you guys have basic hygienic standards



jamahir said:


> Legal advise ??? This is like an Indian traditional family kill their daughter for the sake of "family honor".



What he post is illegal here. I just showed him that he can get huge legal problems here


----------



## jhungary

jamahir said:


> I have reported @Apollon's post and hope for a permaban. His terrorizing of other members and psychopathy has gone on for too long. @Foinikas knows how Apollon would claim to champion Western-governments-enabled freedom of speech and supreme democracy in the Western bloc but here is Apollon doing everything opposite to his own claims.
> 
> I too have received occasional threats from the Hindutvadis on the forum including of veiled violence and these are the same ones who claim that India is "The largest democracy in the world".
> 
> SalarHaqq, he may indeed report you to his atrocious government departments so you should engage with the sane members of European society - progressive groups. But I don't know about the longevity of such progressive groups because yesterday I told Apollon about how the pro-Russia former chancellor of Germany, Gerhard Schroder, almost had a ban against him speaking publicly about Ukraine in Germany and this was in 2014 ! And two pro-NATO German parties CDU and CSU want EU to impose sanctions on Gerhard much like how Apollon wants EU to impose social and socio-economic sanctions on you which can be various things - loss of internet access, removal from employment, loss of bank account etc against you and your family if you have them there and any friend or colleague of yours sympathetic to you. This is plain terrorism which NATO proudly excels at for the 74 years of its existence.
> 
> 
> 
> Many of these drug-taking-and-then-fighting Ukrainians must be doing it because they are being forced to fight on the threat of jail or death. Though some might be taking them to enhance ferocity and act as pain killer and in history such was part of some cultures - like the Rajputs and Nihang Sikhs in India.
> 
> *And the Ukrainians cutting heads of their Russian / ally enemies either because of fanaticism or drug-induced enhanced fanaticism must be punished. @Vergennes @Wood @F-22Raptor @Beny Karachun @Get Ya Wig Split, see what psychopaths you and NATO support.*
> 
> @_Nabil_ @RescueRanger


Please do not insult your fellow member, you have your stance, I get it, but going after fellow member stance because it is a different than yours is probably cheap shot at best. I mean, I can find and I did see quite a lot of Russian Atrocity when I myself is in Ukraine but I will not go after you because you support Russia.



jamahir said:


> @Iron Shrappenel, take a look at my post again. *Mr. Super Soldier and Intelligence Agent,* @jhungary, has joined Ms. @dbc in lynching me.


That's because of the cheap shot tactics you use.

Delete the last paragraph and I may consider recind that negative rating. and also stop with the passive-aggressive name calling, if you call people name, then expect to take the consequence. I mean I don't need to call you a commie to put out my point.

Again, talk nice to your fellow member, or else stop talking at all.

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## Iron Shrappenel

jamahir said:


> @Iron Shrappenel, take a look at my post again. Mr. Super Soldier and Intelligence Agent, @jhungary, has joined Ms. @dbc in lynching me.


Hmm expected, the moderators left this thread to the jackals.... I suggest put them on the ignore list... It clears up alot of noise in this thread... As of Russia vs Ukraine... Who the F cares who wins... Enjoy the show... Russia has adapted well in later part of the war and Ukraine has shown courage.... PDF mods have failed to
> Remain neutral themselves in running this thread.
> Cleaning up of irrelevant posts
> Cleaning repetitive posts ( by both sides)
Coming to the point that a 19 year old is threatening deportation via a person he " knows ". Lol what a joke.

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## jamahir

jhungary said:


> Please do not insult your fellow member, you have your stance, I get it, but going after fellow member stance because it is a different than yours is probably cheap shot at best. I mean, I can find and I did see quite a lot of Russian Atrocity when I myself is in Ukraine but I will not go after you because you support Russia.
> 
> 
> That's because of the cheap shot tactics you use.
> 
> Delete the last paragraph and I may consider recind that negative rating.
> Again, talk nice to your fellow member, or else stop talking at all.



1. Don't impose your dictatorial nature on me. In 2014 I almost established the first IT / ITES industry workers union in India seeing the injustice in my office against myself and my co-workers and am quite politically aware otherwise so I will protest against your unjust action. @LeGenD @Irfan Baloch @waz, who are these NATO Americans having a free run of the thread, distributing negative ratings to me like toffees ?

2. @Apollon himself proudly admitted to being a psychopath. I think @Foinikas has seen that post.

3. "You *may* consider rescinding" ? You "may" ? Don't take that patronizing tone with me or with anyone. It is you insulting me contradicting your advise to me to not insult Apollon.

4. Yes I certainly believe you about "Russian atrocities".  There are no UkroNazis at all and no war crimes by the Ukrainian military against its own civilians and against the people of Donbas since 2014. You want to know what kind of people are these whom you support and engage with ? Read this article :
How a century of political violence in Ukraine is linked to the atrocities of today​The history of Ukrainian nationalist cruelty is an important factor, barely discussed, or known, in the West






© Getty Images / Atit Phetmuangtong / EyeEm

Troops shot in the legs screaming in pain. Others dying from blood loss and shock. With no one around to provide medical assistance. A Russian soldier crucified on an anti-tank barrier, chained to a metal ‘hedgehog’ and then burned alive…

For many, graphic footage of Russian servicemen tortured and killed by the Ukrainian Armed Forces, and nationalist battalions, came as a real shock. But this did not surprise those who are familiar with the ‘traditions’ of Ukraine’s ‘fighters for national freedom’, as they have more than a century of history in this sort of thing.

*Europe’sFirst Concentration Camps*​The first concentration camps in Europe – Terezin and Thalerhof – were established in Austria-Hungary in the fall of 1914, not to hold prisoners of war, but the empire’s own citizens. This is how Vienna, then the ‘sick man of Europe’, tried to protect its eastern border areas from members of its population which sympathized with neighboring Russia. Fighting between the two countries had broken out just before the beginning of the First World War. Austria-Hungary’s last emperor, Charles I, confessed in his edict of May 7, 1917, _“All the arrested Russians are innocent, but they were detained to prevent them becoming guilty.”_




Read more
Under the Wolfsangel: The uncomfortable truth about radical ideologies in Ukraine

People from Galicia who did not want to call themselves Ukrainians, as the Austrian authorities insisted, and continued to use the name ‘Rusyns’, were arrested and incarcerated in two places – in a garrison fortress in Terezin and in a valley near Graz, the capital of Styria. While the prisoners in Terezin were held in the vaults and dungeons of the fortress, with the support of local Czechs, the concentration camp later known as Thalerhof was little more than a bare field fenced in with barbed wire.

Today, most of Galicia is in Western Ukraine and the largest city is Lviv, which was known as Lemberg by the Austrians and Lvov by the Soviets and Polish.
The initial prisoners were brought there in September of 1915, and the first barracks began to be built only at the beginning of the following year. Prior to that, the people were forced to lie in the open in the rain and cold. According to US Congressman Joseph McCormick, the prisoners were often beaten and tortured. (_Terrorism in Bohemia; Medill McCormick Gets Details of Austrian Cruelty_. ‘New York Times’, December 16, 1917)
According to the memoirs of those who survived the inhumane conditions (about 20,000 prisoners passed through the camp), 3,800 people were executed in the first half of 1915 alone, and 3,000 people died from the horrific conditions and diseases in a year and a half. Vasily Varvik, a writer, poet, literary critic, and historian who endured Thalerhof’s hell describes the atrocities in the internment camp as follows: “_In order to intimidate people, to prove their power over us, the prison authorities drove poles into the ground all over Thalerhof Square, on which brutally beaten martyrs often hung in unspoken torment.”_

What do the Ukrainians have to do with it? The fact is that Ukrainian nationalists were specially recruited to guard the Thalerhof camp. According to numerous testimonies, the arrested, which comprised nearly the entire Russian intelligentsia of Galicia and thousands of peasants, were also escorted to the camp by the Ukrainians.

Indeed, descriptions given in the Thalerhof Almanac detail how Ukrainian _Sichoviki_ in the Carpathian village of Lavochnoye tried to bayonet the prisoners, among whom there was not a single Russian, but only their fellow Galicians.

It was the Ukrainian nationalists who were the concentration camp guards’ cruelest torturers and murderers._ “In the end, the atrocities committed by the Germans do not equate to the victimization of your own people. A soulless German could not get his iron boots so deeply into the soul of a Slavonic Rusyn as well as a Rusyn who called himself a Ukrainian,”_ wrote Vasily Varvik.
*From the Volyn Massacre to 1954*​At the end of February 1943, the ‘revolutionary’ wing of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUP), headed by the current idol of many Ukrainians, Stepan Bandera, decided to create the so-called ‘Ukrainian Insurgent Army’ (UPA) to ‘fight the advancing Red Army’, which was driving the Nazis from the country. But the first detachments that emerged in March and April, of the same year, began to fight not the Soviets, whose troops were still waiting for the Nazis to strike near Kursk, but Polish peasants in territory that had belonged to Warsaw up until 1939. These events, which lasted for more than six months, were called the ‘Volyn Massacre’. UPA detachments and units from the SS Galicia division, which was made up of locals from the eponymous area, killed from 40,000 to 200,000 people, according to various estimates. The Polish Sejm and Senate put the number of victims at approximately 100,000 people, and July 11 is recognized as a ‘National Day of Remembrance of the Victims of the Genocide of Polish Citizens by Ukrainian Nationalists’

https://cdni.russiatoday.com/files/2022.05/original/627b80cf2030275d57431723.jpg
Corpses of Polish victims of the massacre brought for identification and burial, March 26, 1943. © Wikipedia

The Polish ‘Association of Memory of Victims of Crimes of Ukrainian Nationalists’ (_Stowarzyszenie Upamiętnienia Ofiar Zbrodni Ukraińskich Nacjonalistów_ (SUOZUN)) is engaged in reconstructing the course of events surrounding the Volyn Massacre. The materials collected by SUOZUN reveal shocking details with respect to the cruelty with which Ukrainian nationalists dealt with even babies and pregnant women. Polish researchers have uncovered 135 methods of torture and murder practiced by Ukrainian nationalists. Among them are:

Running children through with stakes
Cutting a person’s throat and pulling their tongue out through the hole
Sawing a person’s torso in half with a carpenter’s saw
Cutting open the belly of a woman in an advanced stage of pregnancy, removing the fetus, and replacing it with a live cat, before sewing up her abdomen.
Cutting open a pregnant women’s abdomen and pouring in broken glass
Nailing a small child to a door.



Read more
How Ukraine’s ‘Revolution of Dignity’ led to war, poverty and the rise of the far right
According to Polish historians, it came to the point that even the German butchers, having been shocked by these atrocities, began to protect the Poles from the Ukrainian _Sokirniki_ (from the Ukrainian word _sokira_, meaning ‘axe’).

All this, including the ingenuity employed in conducting torture and executions, continued after the Nazis had been expelled from Ukraine. Only now the victims of the nationalists were citizens of Soviet Ukraine – specialists like agronomists, engineers, doctors, and teachers who had been sent from the eastern part of the republic to restore western Ukraine after the war. Though the vast majority of these were ethnic Ukrainians, the nationalists killed not only them, but even their own fellow villagers who had cooperated with the Soviets.

These acts were carried out in accordance with instructions given by the head of the UPA and former Wehrmacht hauptman Roman Shukhevich, who is now an idol for many Ukrainians: _“The OUN should act so that all those who recognized the Soviet government are destroyed. Not intimidated, but physically destroyed! Do not be afraid that people will curse us for cruelty. Let half of the 40 million Ukrainian population remain – there is nothing terrible in this,”_ he wrote. (Tchaikovsky A., Nevidoma viina, K., 1994, p. 224). According to the KGB of the USSR, in 1944–1953, the irretrievable losses of the Soviet side were 30,676 people. Among them are 697 employees of state security agencies, 1,864 employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, 3,199 military personnel, 2,590 fighters of destruction battalions; 2,732 - representatives of authorities, 251 communists, 207 Komsomol workers, 314 - chairmen of collective farms, 15,355 collective farmers and peasants, 676 workers, 1,931 - representatives of the intelligentsia, 860 - children, old people and housewives.
*Maidan of Hate*​With the return of the nationalists to Ukraine’s political scene, after the Soviet collapse, the violence resumed as well. The existence of torture rooms in Kiev City Hall, which was seized by ‘peaceful protesters’ at the end of 2013, has been reported.






Anti-government protesters clash with police in Independence Square on February 19, 2014 in Kiev, Ukraine. © Alexander Koerner / Getty Images

A lot of video footage from the ‘Revolution of Dignity’ has been preserved showing the bullying captured police officers suffered at the hands of ‘peaceful protesters’. Some doctors working on the Maidan had to protect wounded officers that had been captured from being massacred. Shots from the Hromadske.tv TV channel also captured a Maidan medic categorically prohibiting people from calling an ambulance for a policeman who had lost an eye on the grounds that he served in the Berkut special unit, which was trying to suppress the uprising.

Here is how Kiev journalist Sergey Rulev describes his experience in the torture chamber:_ “Four people beat me. There was a woman in a headscarf with them, who kicked me in the groin without saying a word. Then they dragged me to the occupied Ministry of Agriculture, where they searched me, took away my documents, a press pass, accreditation to the Verkhovna Rada, business cards, two phones, and two cameras. When they dragged me back to Khreshchatyk, I started screaming and calling for help. I fell to the ground and was kicked again, but no one reacted. At about 12:00, I was dragged into the burned-out House of Trade Unions. In the lobby, I was immediately beaten up. In the courtyard, unknown people in camouflage fatigues bound my hands, stripped me to my underwear, and continued to beat me… After that, the four of them pinned me to the floor, injected something into my arm again, and said, ‘Now you’re going to talk to us, bitch! Which special services do you work for?’”_
Once he was tied up, an unknown woman began to rip out Sergey’s nails with pliers. Subsequently, he identified this sadist as Amina Okuyeva, a medic in the ‘8th hundred’ Maidan Self-Defense unit, who later fought in the ‘ATO (Anti-Terrorist Operation) Zone’ as part of the neo-Nazi Kiev-2 and Dzhokhar Dudayev Battalions. She was awarded the title People’s Hero of Ukraine for her efforts.
*The Ukrainian State and the Nazis*​It would be surprising if the Ukrainian nationalists, who were part of the troops operating in the so-called ‘Anti-Terrorist Operation’ (ATO) in the east of Ukraine, were to abandon their propensity for violence and stop bullying, torturing, and murdering their enemies, as this is the legacy of the totalitarian ideologies they have inherited from the last century. Andrei Ilyenko, a member of the neo-Nazi Svoboda party who is one of Ukrainian nationalism’s modern ideologists, admits, _“Italian fascism, German nationalism, Croatian Ustashism, authentic Ukrainian nationalism, Spanish Falangism, and other integral movements doubtlessly share a single ideological basis.”_ (Patriot of Ukraine organization, _Ukrainian Social Nationalism: a collection of ideological works and program documents_, Kharkov – 2007).






Young participants in a nationalist march marking Stepan Bandera's 109th birthday, in Lviv. © Sputnik / Stringer

And this has not happened. Literally from the first days of the ‘Anti-Terrorist Operation’, information began to arrive about atrocities committed by nationalist battalions in the Donbass. After all, in addition to radical nationalists brought up to hate everything Russian, many of the participants were criminals convicted of violent crimes. Usurper Oleksandr Turchynov, who does not hide the fact that he threatened MPs with physical violence if they did not vote for his appointment as acting president, recalled: _“I remember one meeting at the front with volunteer units where one of those present, who was covered in tattoos, asked: ‘Boss, will there be amnesty or not? The guys are interested in us there.’ I asked, ‘What do they want with you?’ ‘Well, for stuff like... murder, robbery...’”_
The crimes committed by nationalist battalion members went ‘unnoticed’ by the authorities for a long time, but when international human rights organizations began to scream about the most egregious cases, some facts regarding their atrocities finally reached the courts. Several leaders from the nationalist Aidar Battalion were convicted. For example, they created a prison in a sausage shop’s smokehouse and placed prisoners there in unheated cells measuring 80x150 cm, where people had to crouch for several months.

A lot of people got away with serious crimes on the grounds that they were ‘Patriots of Ukraine’, and this was shown to be a government policy in practice. For example, Sergey Sternenko, a nationalist from Maidan’s Right Sector, escaped punishment for protecting drug trafficking and murder on the basis of ‘patriotism’. Though Sternenko was sentenced to a prison term of 7 years and 3 months for abducting a pro-Russian deputy from Odessa named Sergey Shcherbich, his punishment was reduced to one year of probation after just three months. Given this policy, it is not surprising that none of the participants in burning 49 people alive in the Odessa House of Trade Unions on May 2, 2014, have yet been brought to justice.

Criminal cases have been initiated against Ukrainian nationalist Nikolay Kokhanovsky more than once. This ATO participant and OUN battalion commander is also a member of the Azov Regiment, which has been recognized by the US Congress as a neo-Nazi organization. He has been accused of attacking opposition TV channels, Moscow Patriarchate churches, Russian diplomatic missions, and Russian banks, as well as committing an armed assault on a nationalist like himself without a weapons permit. After his supporters smashed up the court, Kokhanovsky was set free.




Read more
From peacemaker to warmonger: Tragic downfall of Ukraine's Volodymyr Zelensky

Perhaps the most horrific crime committed by Ukrainian nationalists was the creation of a prison in the refrigerator at the airport in Mariupol in June of 2014, which the jailers called the ‘library’. There, Mariupol residents were subjected to beatings, death by torture, and rape for even the suspicion of harboring sympathies for Russia or the unrecognized eastern republics. The ‘library’ was headed by the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU), whose chief, Valentin Nalivaichenko, was a friend of the leader of the Right Sector, Dmitry Yarosh. And Nalivaichenko’s assistant, Yuri Mikhalchishin, a member of the nationalist Svoboda party who goes by the pseudonym ‘Nahtigal88’ (in honor of a sabotage battalion that was part of the Third Reich’s counterintelligence division and the letters ‘NN’ denoting Heil Hitler), was responsible for the ideology of the special service. Mikhalchishin openly asserts that _Mein Kampf_ has been his guidebook since the age of 16. After being dismissed from the SBU, he went to fight as part of the Azov Regiment.

***

The ideology of racial superiority has a long criminal history grounded in hate. When its bearers get their hands on power, national pride invariably turns into ruthless violence, and the radicals reveal their willingness to employ bestial cruelty and exterminate ‘outsiders’. The true foundations of their worldview will be seen more than once until this lesson in history is finally learned.

_By _*Olga Sukharevskaya,*_ ex-Ukrainian diplomat_



Iron Shrappenel said:


> Hmm expected, the moderators left this thread to the jackals.... I suggest put them on the ignore list... It clears up alot of noise in this thread... As of Russia vs Ukraine... Who the F cares who wins... Enjoy the show... Russia has adapted well in later part of the war and Ukraine has shown courage.... PDF mods have failed to
> > Remain neutral themselves in running this thread.
> > Cleaning up of irrelevant posts
> > Cleaning repetitive posts ( by both sides)
> Coming to the point that a 19 year old is threatening deportation via a person he " knows ". Lol what a joke.



Yes, sad that no mod has turned up here. I am again tagging mods above so will wait for their action against these two self-tom-tomming Think Tanks. But about Russia we must support it because they are acting against a vile, barbaric bunch who wouldn't hesitate in murdering us desis in the most brutal way if we happen to visit Ukraine. Please read the RT article above and the linked vid. And about three months ago the notorious Indian news host Arnab Goswami of the notorious channel Republic TV was as usual being shouty and rude with his guests including with a Chinese guest. Another guest was an elderly academic and international affairs expert, Gilbert Doctorow, who has decades of experience working with and observing USSR and Russia. You must watch in this article what he told Arnab.

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## ckf

RoadAmerica said:


> Trade doesn’t matter anymore???
> Chinas been in a recession, it will only get worse and they’ll need every customer they can sell too so yes trade does matter.


What's the point of trade with EU/US when the reserve you hold in USD/euro can be seized? The fiat currency is basically worthless toilet paper to China.

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Nothing happened. I just informed that guy that he posts illegal stuff that falls under german legislation. Since he resides in the EU he can be brought to court if authorities catch him.


You're scum.

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## MH.Yang

Apollon said:


> Im half german, half greek. My father is German, mom Greek. Keep in mind that i see India as even more disgusting place than China. And that means something.
> 
> At least you guys have basic hygienic standards
> 
> 
> 
> What he post is illegal here. I just showed him that he can get huge legal problems here


If you are really a European, have you ever considered that the USA ordered Lithuania to provoke China before the Ukrainian war, and the USA incited a war between Russia and Ukraine to deliberately frame the European Union? In this way, the USA can force EU capital to flow to the USA through interest rate hikes and the dangerous international situation, so as to improve the current economic situation of the USA.
Maybe Lithuania and Ukraine are not used to provoke China and Russia, but to frame the EU.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

jamahir said:


> 1. Don't impose your dictatorial nature on me. In 2014 I almost established the first IT / ITES industry workers union in India seeing the injustice in my office against myself and my co-workers and am quite politically aware otherwise so I will protest against your unjust action. @LeGenD @Irfan Baloch @waz, who are these NATO Americans having a free run of the thread, distributing negative ratings to me like toffees ?
> 
> 2. @Apollon himself proudly admitted to being a psychopath. I think @Foinikas has seen that post.
> 
> 3. "You *may* consider rescinding" ? You "may" ? Don't take that patronizing tone with me or with anyone. It is you insulting me contradicting your advise to me to not insult Apollon.
> 
> 4. Yes I certainly believe you about "Russian atrocities".  There are no UkroNazis at all and no war crimes by the Ukrainian military against its own civilians and against the people of Donbas since 2014. You want to know what kind of people are these whom you support and engage with ? Read this article :
> How a century of political violence in Ukraine is linked to the atrocities of today​The history of Ukrainian nationalist cruelty is an important factor, barely discussed, or known, in the West
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> © Getty Images / Atit Phetmuangtong / EyeEm
> 
> Troops shot in the legs screaming in pain. Others dying from blood loss and shock. With no one around to provide medical assistance. A Russian soldier crucified on an anti-tank barrier, chained to a metal ‘hedgehog’ and then burned alive…
> 
> For many, graphic footage of Russian servicemen tortured and killed by the Ukrainian Armed Forces, and nationalist battalions, came as a real shock. But this did not surprise those who are familiar with the ‘traditions’ of Ukraine’s ‘fighters for national freedom’, as they have more than a century of history in this sort of thing.
> 
> *Europe’sFirst Concentration Camps*​The first concentration camps in Europe – Terezin and Thalerhof – were established in Austria-Hungary in the fall of 1914, not to hold prisoners of war, but the empire’s own citizens. This is how Vienna, then the ‘sick man of Europe’, tried to protect its eastern border areas from members of its population which sympathized with neighboring Russia. Fighting between the two countries had broken out just before the beginning of the First World War. Austria-Hungary’s last emperor, Charles I, confessed in his edict of May 7, 1917, _“All the arrested Russians are innocent, but they were detained to prevent them becoming guilty.”_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read more
> Under the Wolfsangel: The uncomfortable truth about radical ideologies in Ukraine
> 
> People from Galicia who did not want to call themselves Ukrainians, as the Austrian authorities insisted, and continued to use the name ‘Rusyns’, were arrested and incarcerated in two places – in a garrison fortress in Terezin and in a valley near Graz, the capital of Styria. While the prisoners in Terezin were held in the vaults and dungeons of the fortress, with the support of local Czechs, the concentration camp later known as Thalerhof was little more than a bare field fenced in with barbed wire.
> 
> Today, most of Galicia is in Western Ukraine and the largest city is Lviv, which was known as Lemberg by the Austrians and Lvov by the Soviets and Polish.
> The initial prisoners were brought there in September of 1915, and the first barracks began to be built only at the beginning of the following year. Prior to that, the people were forced to lie in the open in the rain and cold. According to US Congressman Joseph McCormick, the prisoners were often beaten and tortured. (_Terrorism in Bohemia; Medill McCormick Gets Details of Austrian Cruelty_. ‘New York Times’, December 16, 1917)
> According to the memoirs of those who survived the inhumane conditions (about 20,000 prisoners passed through the camp), 3,800 people were executed in the first half of 1915 alone, and 3,000 people died from the horrific conditions and diseases in a year and a half. Vasily Varvik, a writer, poet, literary critic, and historian who endured Thalerhof’s hell describes the atrocities in the internment camp as follows: “_In order to intimidate people, to prove their power over us, the prison authorities drove poles into the ground all over Thalerhof Square, on which brutally beaten martyrs often hung in unspoken torment.”_
> 
> What do the Ukrainians have to do with it? The fact is that Ukrainian nationalists were specially recruited to guard the Thalerhof camp. According to numerous testimonies, the arrested, which comprised nearly the entire Russian intelligentsia of Galicia and thousands of peasants, were also escorted to the camp by the Ukrainians.
> 
> Indeed, descriptions given in the Thalerhof Almanac detail how Ukrainian _Sichoviki_ in the Carpathian village of Lavochnoye tried to bayonet the prisoners, among whom there was not a single Russian, but only their fellow Galicians.
> 
> It was the Ukrainian nationalists who were the concentration camp guards’ cruelest torturers and murderers._ “In the end, the atrocities committed by the Germans do not equate to the victimization of your own people. A soulless German could not get his iron boots so deeply into the soul of a Slavonic Rusyn as well as a Rusyn who called himself a Ukrainian,”_ wrote Vasily Varvik.
> *From the Volyn Massacre to 1954*​At the end of February 1943, the ‘revolutionary’ wing of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUP), headed by the current idol of many Ukrainians, Stepan Bandera, decided to create the so-called ‘Ukrainian Insurgent Army’ (UPA) to ‘fight the advancing Red Army’, which was driving the Nazis from the country. But the first detachments that emerged in March and April, of the same year, began to fight not the Soviets, whose troops were still waiting for the Nazis to strike near Kursk, but Polish peasants in territory that had belonged to Warsaw up until 1939. These events, which lasted for more than six months, were called the ‘Volyn Massacre’. UPA detachments and units from the SS Galicia division, which was made up of locals from the eponymous area, killed from 40,000 to 200,000 people, according to various estimates. The Polish Sejm and Senate put the number of victims at approximately 100,000 people, and July 11 is recognized as a ‘National Day of Remembrance of the Victims of the Genocide of Polish Citizens by Ukrainian Nationalists’
> 
> https://cdni.russiatoday.com/files/2022.05/original/627b80cf2030275d57431723.jpg
> Corpses of Polish victims of the massacre brought for identification and burial, March 26, 1943. © Wikipedia
> 
> The Polish ‘Association of Memory of Victims of Crimes of Ukrainian Nationalists’ (_Stowarzyszenie Upamiętnienia Ofiar Zbrodni Ukraińskich Nacjonalistów_ (SUOZUN)) is engaged in reconstructing the course of events surrounding the Volyn Massacre. The materials collected by SUOZUN reveal shocking details with respect to the cruelty with which Ukrainian nationalists dealt with even babies and pregnant women. Polish researchers have uncovered 135 methods of torture and murder practiced by Ukrainian nationalists. Among them are:
> 
> Running children through with stakes
> Cutting a person’s throat and pulling their tongue out through the hole
> Sawing a person’s torso in half with a carpenter’s saw
> Cutting open the belly of a woman in an advanced stage of pregnancy, removing the fetus, and replacing it with a live cat, before sewing up her abdomen.
> Cutting open a pregnant women’s abdomen and pouring in broken glass
> Nailing a small child to a door.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more
> How Ukraine’s ‘Revolution of Dignity’ led to war, poverty and the rise of the far right
> According to Polish historians, it came to the point that even the German butchers, having been shocked by these atrocities, began to protect the Poles from the Ukrainian _Sokirniki_ (from the Ukrainian word _sokira_, meaning ‘axe’).
> 
> All this, including the ingenuity employed in conducting torture and executions, continued after the Nazis had been expelled from Ukraine. Only now the victims of the nationalists were citizens of Soviet Ukraine – specialists like agronomists, engineers, doctors, and teachers who had been sent from the eastern part of the republic to restore western Ukraine after the war. Though the vast majority of these were ethnic Ukrainians, the nationalists killed not only them, but even their own fellow villagers who had cooperated with the Soviets.
> 
> These acts were carried out in accordance with instructions given by the head of the UPA and former Wehrmacht hauptman Roman Shukhevich, who is now an idol for many Ukrainians: _“The OUN should act so that all those who recognized the Soviet government are destroyed. Not intimidated, but physically destroyed! Do not be afraid that people will curse us for cruelty. Let half of the 40 million Ukrainian population remain – there is nothing terrible in this,”_ he wrote. (Tchaikovsky A., Nevidoma viina, K., 1994, p. 224). According to the KGB of the USSR, in 1944–1953, the irretrievable losses of the Soviet side were 30,676 people. Among them are 697 employees of state security agencies, 1,864 employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, 3,199 military personnel, 2,590 fighters of destruction battalions; 2,732 - representatives of authorities, 251 communists, 207 Komsomol workers, 314 - chairmen of collective farms, 15,355 collective farmers and peasants, 676 workers, 1,931 - representatives of the intelligentsia, 860 - children, old people and housewives.
> *Maidan of Hate*​With the return of the nationalists to Ukraine’s political scene, after the Soviet collapse, the violence resumed as well. The existence of torture rooms in Kiev City Hall, which was seized by ‘peaceful protesters’ at the end of 2013, has been reported.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-government protesters clash with police in Independence Square on February 19, 2014 in Kiev, Ukraine. © Alexander Koerner / Getty Images
> 
> A lot of video footage from the ‘Revolution of Dignity’ has been preserved showing the bullying captured police officers suffered at the hands of ‘peaceful protesters’. Some doctors working on the Maidan had to protect wounded officers that had been captured from being massacred. Shots from the Hromadske.tv TV channel also captured a Maidan medic categorically prohibiting people from calling an ambulance for a policeman who had lost an eye on the grounds that he served in the Berkut special unit, which was trying to suppress the uprising.
> 
> Here is how Kiev journalist Sergey Rulev describes his experience in the torture chamber:_ “Four people beat me. There was a woman in a headscarf with them, who kicked me in the groin without saying a word. Then they dragged me to the occupied Ministry of Agriculture, where they searched me, took away my documents, a press pass, accreditation to the Verkhovna Rada, business cards, two phones, and two cameras. When they dragged me back to Khreshchatyk, I started screaming and calling for help. I fell to the ground and was kicked again, but no one reacted. At about 12:00, I was dragged into the burned-out House of Trade Unions. In the lobby, I was immediately beaten up. In the courtyard, unknown people in camouflage fatigues bound my hands, stripped me to my underwear, and continued to beat me… After that, the four of them pinned me to the floor, injected something into my arm again, and said, ‘Now you’re going to talk to us, bitch! Which special services do you work for?’”_
> Once he was tied up, an unknown woman began to rip out Sergey’s nails with pliers. Subsequently, he identified this sadist as Amina Okuyeva, a medic in the ‘8th hundred’ Maidan Self-Defense unit, who later fought in the ‘ATO (Anti-Terrorist Operation) Zone’ as part of the neo-Nazi Kiev-2 and Dzhokhar Dudayev Battalions. She was awarded the title People’s Hero of Ukraine for her efforts.
> *The Ukrainian State and the Nazis*​It would be surprising if the Ukrainian nationalists, who were part of the troops operating in the so-called ‘Anti-Terrorist Operation’ (ATO) in the east of Ukraine, were to abandon their propensity for violence and stop bullying, torturing, and murdering their enemies, as this is the legacy of the totalitarian ideologies they have inherited from the last century. Andrei Ilyenko, a member of the neo-Nazi Svoboda party who is one of Ukrainian nationalism’s modern ideologists, admits, _“Italian fascism, German nationalism, Croatian Ustashism, authentic Ukrainian nationalism, Spanish Falangism, and other integral movements doubtlessly share a single ideological basis.”_ (Patriot of Ukraine organization, _Ukrainian Social Nationalism: a collection of ideological works and program documents_, Kharkov – 2007).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Young participants in a nationalist march marking Stepan Bandera's 109th birthday, in Lviv. © Sputnik / Stringer
> 
> And this has not happened. Literally from the first days of the ‘Anti-Terrorist Operation’, information began to arrive about atrocities committed by nationalist battalions in the Donbass. After all, in addition to radical nationalists brought up to hate everything Russian, many of the participants were criminals convicted of violent crimes. Usurper Oleksandr Turchynov, who does not hide the fact that he threatened MPs with physical violence if they did not vote for his appointment as acting president, recalled: _“I remember one meeting at the front with volunteer units where one of those present, who was covered in tattoos, asked: ‘Boss, will there be amnesty or not? The guys are interested in us there.’ I asked, ‘What do they want with you?’ ‘Well, for stuff like... murder, robbery...’”_
> The crimes committed by nationalist battalion members went ‘unnoticed’ by the authorities for a long time, but when international human rights organizations began to scream about the most egregious cases, some facts regarding their atrocities finally reached the courts. Several leaders from the nationalist Aidar Battalion were convicted. For example, they created a prison in a sausage shop’s smokehouse and placed prisoners there in unheated cells measuring 80x150 cm, where people had to crouch for several months.
> 
> A lot of people got away with serious crimes on the grounds that they were ‘Patriots of Ukraine’, and this was shown to be a government policy in practice. For example, Sergey Sternenko, a nationalist from Maidan’s Right Sector, escaped punishment for protecting drug trafficking and murder on the basis of ‘patriotism’. Though Sternenko was sentenced to a prison term of 7 years and 3 months for abducting a pro-Russian deputy from Odessa named Sergey Shcherbich, his punishment was reduced to one year of probation after just three months. Given this policy, it is not surprising that none of the participants in burning 49 people alive in the Odessa House of Trade Unions on May 2, 2014, have yet been brought to justice.
> 
> Criminal cases have been initiated against Ukrainian nationalist Nikolay Kokhanovsky more than once. This ATO participant and OUN battalion commander is also a member of the Azov Regiment, which has been recognized by the US Congress as a neo-Nazi organization. He has been accused of attacking opposition TV channels, Moscow Patriarchate churches, Russian diplomatic missions, and Russian banks, as well as committing an armed assault on a nationalist like himself without a weapons permit. After his supporters smashed up the court, Kokhanovsky was set free.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read more
> From peacemaker to warmonger: Tragic downfall of Ukraine's Volodymyr Zelensky
> 
> Perhaps the most horrific crime committed by Ukrainian nationalists was the creation of a prison in the refrigerator at the airport in Mariupol in June of 2014, which the jailers called the ‘library’. There, Mariupol residents were subjected to beatings, death by torture, and rape for even the suspicion of harboring sympathies for Russia or the unrecognized eastern republics. The ‘library’ was headed by the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU), whose chief, Valentin Nalivaichenko, was a friend of the leader of the Right Sector, Dmitry Yarosh. And Nalivaichenko’s assistant, Yuri Mikhalchishin, a member of the nationalist Svoboda party who goes by the pseudonym ‘Nahtigal88’ (in honor of a sabotage battalion that was part of the Third Reich’s counterintelligence division and the letters ‘NN’ denoting Heil Hitler), was responsible for the ideology of the special service. Mikhalchishin openly asserts that _Mein Kampf_ has been his guidebook since the age of 16. After being dismissed from the SBU, he went to fight as part of the Azov Regiment.
> 
> ***
> 
> The ideology of racial superiority has a long criminal history grounded in hate. When its bearers get their hands on power, national pride invariably turns into ruthless violence, and the radicals reveal their willingness to employ bestial cruelty and exterminate ‘outsiders’. The true foundations of their worldview will be seen more than once until this lesson in history is finally learned.
> 
> _By _*Olga Sukharevskaya,*_ ex-Ukrainian diplomat_
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, sad that no mod has turned up here. I am again tagging mods above so will wait for their action against these two self-tom-tomming Think Tanks. But about Russia we must support it because they are acting against a vile, barbaric bunch who wouldn't hesitate in murdering us desis in the most brutal way if we happen to visit Ukraine. Please read the RT article above and the linked vid. And about three months ago the notorious Indian news host Arnab Goswami of the notorious channel Republic TV was as usual being shouty and rude with his guests including with a Chinese guest. Another guest was an elderly academic and international affairs expert, Gilbert Doctorow, who has decades of experience working with and observing USSR and Russia. You must watch in this article what he told Arnab.


Dude, suit yourself, I mean, it's YOU who get into this passive aggressive behaviour, I am not the one that engage in it. And if you keep doing this, I will keep giving you a negative rating. If you failed to see you can talk about whatever in Ukraine without dragging in member name's in it, THAT'S ON YOU. Not me.

Also, the first post I did not leave that negative because you insult @Apollon, as I stated, you use it to cheap shot literally every member in this threat that support NATO and saying they support psychopaths. If you are unable to see how this is a cheap shot, then well, I guess there are nothing I can tell you other than go back to school.

On the other hand, you can tag my name without calling me name, again, if you failed to see that is an passive aggressive insult and think you are "allowed" to do this, then, this is on you, not me.


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> What he post is illegal here. I just showed him that he can get huge legal problems here



"Values of European Union" from the EU website :


> Values​The European Union is founded on the following values:
> 
> *Human dignity*
> Human dignity is inviolable. It must be respected, protected and constitutes the real basis of fundamental rights.
> 
> *Freedom*
> Freedom of movement gives citizens the right to move and reside freely within the Union. Individual freedoms such as respect for private life, freedom of thought, religion, assembly, expression and information are protected by the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights.
> 
> *Democracy*
> The functioning of the EU is founded on representative democracy. A European citizen automatically enjoys political rights. Every adult EU citizen has the right to stand as a candidate and to vote in elections to the European Parliament. EU citizens have the right to stand as a candidate and to vote in their country of residence, or in their country of origin.
> 
> *Equality*
> Equality is about equal rights for all citizens before the law. The principle of equality between women and men underpins all European policies and is the basis for European integration. It applies in all areas. The principle of equal pay for equal work became part of the Treaty of Rome in 1957.
> 
> *Rule of law*
> The EU is based on the rule of law. Everything the EU does is founded on treaties, voluntarily and democratically agreed by its EU countries. Law and justice are upheld by an independent judiciary. The EU countries gave final jurisdiction to the European Court of Justice - its judgments have to be respected by all.
> 
> *Human rights*
> Human rights are protected by the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights. These cover the right to be free from discrimination on the basis of sex, racial or ethnic origin, religion or belief, disability, age or sexual orientation, the right to the protection of your personal data, and the right to get access to justice.
> 
> The EU’s values are laid out in article 2 of the Lisbon Treaty and the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights.
> In 2012, the EU was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for advancing the causes of peace, reconciliation, democracy and human rights in Europe.


So, Apollon, are you following the values of the EU in calling for court action against @SalarHaqq ?



jhungary said:


> Dude, suit yourself, I mean, it's YOU who get into this passive aggressive behaviour, I am not the one that engage in it. And if you keep doing this, I will keep giving you a negative rating. If you failed to see you can talk about whatever in Ukraine without dragging in member name's in it, THAT'S ON YOU. Not me.
> 
> And yes, I "MAY NOT" remove it even if you remove that paragraph, so either suck it up or improve your behaviour. Either way, it's your own grave you are digging, not me.



I don't know what is meant by "passive aggressive behavior" but I have taken screenshot of your dictatorialness, irrationality and misuse of "Professional" status. If you continue to give me -ve ratings I will speak for taking away of your status at the least. "Suck it up".

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## jhungary

jamahir said:


> I don't know what is meant by "passive aggressive behavior" but I have taken screenshot of your dictatorialness, irrationality and misuse of "Professional" status. If you continue to give me -ve ratings I will speak for taking away of your status at the least. "Suck it up".


Are you for real?

What if I call you "that "Commie" @jamahir", believe what I tell you, or don't believe what I tell you, I don't really give a damn, again, if you don't know what is passive aggressive behaviour, that's you. DO whatever the hell you like, you stand up for what you stand up on, but don't call people name just because you want to bring in your cheap shot point.

I said what I say, if I see this behaviour continue, I WILL CONTINUE GIVING YOU -VE RATING. Test me, don't test me, that's up to you.

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## MH.Yang

RoadAmerica said:


> Trade doesn’t matter anymore???
> Chinas been in a recession, it will only get worse and they’ll need every customer they can sell too so yes trade does matter.


You say China's economy is in recession? 

Man, now China's CPI is only 0.8%, which is the lowest inflation rate in the world. You can compare the CPI of Vietnam, the second place, with 2.86% and Switzerland, the third place, with 2.9%. 8.6% in the USA. 

In the first quarter, China's GDP reached 4254.5 billion US dollars, with a GDP growth rate of 11.2% in US dollars and 8.9% in CNY, with a real growth rate of 4.8%. The economic growth rate is higher than that of the USA, which is raising interest rates. 

Excuse me, what do you see that China's economy is in recession?

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## Primus

So has the HIMARS finally arrived or something happened?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538846290682994688


Huffal said:


> So has the HIMARS finally arrived or something happened?



Don't know. Maybe they were blown up by Mi-28NM which made combat debut.



Mi-28NM Super Havoc makes combat debut in Donbas revolution war. Attacking using long range kamikaze drone.

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## jamahir

jhungary said:


> Are you for real?
> 
> What if I call you "that "Commie" @jamahir", believe what I tell you, or don't believe what I tell you, I don't really give a damn, again, if you don't know what is passive aggressive behaviour, that's you. DO whatever the hell you like, you stand up for what you stand up on, but don't call people name just because you want to bring in your cheap shot point.



1. No "Commie" has done these ( from that article which you chose not to read ) :


> The Polish ‘Association of Memory of Victims of Crimes of Ukrainian Nationalists’ (_Stowarzyszenie Upamiętnienia Ofiar Zbrodni Ukraińskich Nacjonalistów_ (SUOZUN)) is engaged in reconstructing the course of events surrounding the Volyn Massacre. The materials collected by SUOZUN reveal shocking details with respect to the cruelty with which Ukrainian nationalists dealt with even babies and pregnant women. Polish researchers have uncovered 135 methods of torture and murder practiced by Ukrainian nationalists. Among them are:
> 
> Running children through with stakes
> Cutting a person’s throat and pulling their tongue out through the hole
> Sawing a person’s torso in half with a carpenter’s saw
> Cutting open the belly of a woman in an advanced stage of pregnancy, removing the fetus, and replacing it with a live cat, before sewing up her abdomen.
> Cutting open a pregnant women’s abdomen and pouring in broken glass
> Nailing a small child to a door.


And you support and engage with these filths ?

2. Here is Apollon in his own words :


Apollon said:


> And yes im smart, i dont denie im a psychopath. But all around me see me as super charismatic and kind person. 👍





jhungary said:


> I said what I say, if I see this behaviour continue, I WILL CONTINUE GIVING YOU -VE RATING. Test me, don't test me, that's up to you.



As I said, I have saved the screenshot.

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## jhungary

jamahir said:


> 1. No "Commie" has done these ( from that article which you chose not to read ) :
> 
> And you support and engage with these filths ?
> 
> 2. Here is Apollon in his own words :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I said, I have saved the screenshot.


Dude, this is the last time I say this, I don't care what you think, if you can't play nice with other member, either don't play at all, or be prepare to take the rating.

None of what I left is about Apollon. And if you failed to see that even I have explained to you twice, that's not me, that's you.

As I said, I can show you a lot of CCTV and article on how Russian kill Ukrainian just for fun and sport, I will call Russian Soldier filth and scum but I will not drag you in this because you support the Russian, I don't care about the shit you think you believe, as you are not the person I comment on. Don't drag member here into your own believe when you think it's right, other may not. And if you try any of that shit, that would be a cheap shot.

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## Paul2

MH.Yang said:


> You say China's economy is in recession?
> 
> Man, now China's CPI is only 0.8%, which is the lowest inflation rate in the world. You can compare the CPI of Vietnam, the second place, with 2.86% and Switzerland, the third place, with 2.9%. 8.6% in the USA.
> 
> In the first quarter, China's GDP reached 4254.5 billion US dollars, with a GDP growth rate of 11.2% in US dollars and 8.9% in CNY, with a real growth rate of 4.8%. The economic growth rate is higher than that of the USA, which is raising interest rates.
> 
> Excuse me, what do you see that China's economy is in recession?
> 
> 
> View attachment 855388



Not a recession, but a lull. China can keep rising prices on exports as manufacturing in the rest of the world is still comatose, this keeps manufacturers of higher value goods running. This will shields us from inflation for as long as Western currencies hold. They will hold for some time, but the Western buying power will keep sliding through the year.

UAE, and Saudis may for the first time in history ease the dollar peg of their currencies. This will be interesting to watch.

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## Apollon

MH.Yang said:


> If you are really a European, have you ever considered that the USA ordered Lithuania to provoke China before the Ukrainian war, and the USA incited a war between Russia and Ukraine to deliberately frame the European Union? In this way, the USA can force EU capital to flow to the USA through interest rate hikes and the dangerous international situation, so as to improve the current economic situation of the USA.
> Maybe Lithuania and Ukraine are not used to provoke China and Russia, but to frame the EU.



If you are really chinese have you ever consider that it is against european interest to have a facist russia threaten all if Europe?



jamahir said:


> "Values of European Union" from the EU website :
> 
> So, Apollon, are you following the values of the EU in calling for court action against @SalarHaqq ?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what is meant by "passive aggressive behavior" but I have taken screenshot of your dictatorialness, irrationality and misuse of "Professional" status. If you continue to give me -ve ratings I will speak for taking away of your status at the least. "Suck it up".



He posts facist propaganda, supports genocide and breaks german law. I simply told him that what he does is illegal



Foinikas said:


> You're scum.



Thank you. Shows how much you stand by your own principles. I never personally insult someone


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538876204991799299


----------



## RoadAmerica

ckf said:


> What's the point of trade with EU/US when the reserve you hold in USD/euro can be seized? The fiat currency is basically worthless toilet paper to China.


Cool who’s China going to trade with then? ASEAN, Russia? That won’t work out to well as most of those citizens don’t have disposable income to buy Chinese junk.


----------



## jamahir

jhungary said:


> Dude, this is the last time I say this, I don't care what you think, if you can't play nice with other member, either don't play at all, or be prepare to take the rating.
> 
> None of what I left is about Apollon. And if you failed to see that even I have explained to you twice, that's not me, that's you.



You forgot your own words :


jhungary said:


> Please do not insult your fellow member


Meaning, you did not like me calling Apollon a psychopath but I proved to you that he proudly calls himself a psychopath and even without that technical / legal fact we can all say that's what he is. How can you deny this being on this thread for so long ?

And again you threaten me. Do you think I will not loudly protest ?



jhungary said:


> As I said, I can show you a lot of CCTV and article on how Russian kill Ukrainian just for fun and sport



Sure, like the "Russian massacre in Bucha". So, did NATO find out what happened there ?

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## Primus

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538846290682994688
> 
> 
> Don't know. Maybe they were blown up by Mi-28NM which made combat debut.
> 
> 
> 
> Mi-28NM Super Havoc makes combat debut in Donbas revolution war. Attacking using long range kamikaze drone.








Dude...


----------



## RoadAmerica

MH.Yang said:


> You say China's economy is in recession?
> 
> Man, now China's CPI is only 0.8%, which is the lowest inflation rate in the world. You can compare the CPI of Vietnam, the second place, with 2.86% and Switzerland, the third place, with 2.9%. 8.6% in the USA.
> 
> In the first quarter, China's GDP reached 4254.5 billion US dollars, with a GDP growth rate of 11.2% in US dollars and 8.9% in CNY, with a real growth rate of 4.8%. The economic growth rate is higher than that of the USA, which is raising interest rates.
> 
> Excuse me, what do you see that China's economy is in recession?
> 
> 
> View attachment 855388


Sorry one more quarter of contraction and they will be in the definition of a recession. 
Their growth forecast was just cut and lockdowns sure aren’t helping, they’ll be in a recession just like the rest of the world


----------



## F-22Raptor

RoadAmerica said:


> Sorry one more quarter of contraction and they will be in the definition of a recession.
> Their growth forecast was just cut and lockdowns sure aren’t helping, they’ll be in a recession just like the rest of the world



China was almost certainly in negative growth territory for Q2 due to the lockdowns.


----------



## jhungary

jamahir said:


> You forgot your own words :
> 
> Meaning, you did not like me calling Apollon a psychopath but I proved to you that he proudly calls himself a psychopath and even without that technical / legal fact we can all say that's what he is. How can you deny this being on this thread for so long ?



Again, I have explained to you twice, this is NOT ABOUT Apollon, go back and read both of my post if you want, you keep saying Apollon this or that does not means what I did is for him. And if you keep saying his name, I will get a feeling YOU have a beef with him.


jamahir said:


> And again you threaten me. Do you think I will not loudly protest ?



I don't care.



jamahir said:


> Sure, like the "Russian massacre in Bucha". So, did NATO find out what happened there ?


Sure, Russia is all saint and they didn't do anything, right? That is the reason why I don't bother to post all that out because it is useless on people like you.

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## MH.Yang

RoadAmerica said:


> Sorry one more quarter of contraction and they will be in the definition of a recession.
> Their growth forecast was just cut and lockdowns sure aren’t helping, they’ll be in a recession just like the rest of the world


Your news is too backward. In the second quarter, China's blockade was lifted. 

China's blockade of Shanghai occurred in the first quarter, and now the COVID cases in Shanghai have been cleared. 

In fact, the blockade of Shanghai has little impact on China's economy. On the contrary, it has a great impact on the inflation rate of western countries.

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## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> Your news is too backward. In the second quarter, China's blockade was lifted.
> 
> China's blockade of Shanghai occurred in the first quarter, and now the COVID cases in Shanghai have been cleared.
> 
> In fact, the blockade of Shanghai has little impact on China's economy. On the contrary, it has a great impact on the inflation rate of western countries.


It was on the second quarter. Well, most of it was.

Q2 started reporting on March 30, end in June 1. Shanghai started lockdown on March 14/15, and done so for the next 74 days. Which mean out of that 74 days, 58 days are done in Q2. that's more than half of the entire Q2.



F-22Raptor said:


> China was almost certainly in negative growth territory for Q2 due to the lockdowns.


Well, Moody just released an article predicting Chinese GDP growth at 2.8% in 2022.









Global GDP growth forecast at 2.8% in 2022, says Moody’s Analytics


(VOVWORLD) - Volatility in global commodity markets and an increasingly risk-averse trading environment are likely to sustain inflation well above comfort levels through this year, according to Moody’s Analytics




vovworld.vn





While JP Morgan pegged Q2 Chinese growth at -5.4%









JP Morgan cuts China’s Q2 2022 GDP growth forecast to -5.4%


JP Morgan came out with a downbeat economic forecast for China amid the ongoing covid woes, as well as concerns emanating from the Russia-Ukraine cris




www.fxstreet.com


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538842396045328384

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538779530831306752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538863688127594498


----------



## ZeGerman

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538842396045328384


Ah more participants for the great russian turret tossing competition!


----------



## Viet

Oh that is a big slap on Putin‘s face.

Kasachstan president Toqajew said to Putin his country will not accept the two so-called separatists republics in Donez. It’s violating the international UN Charta.
Kasachstan will not recognize other territories occupied by Russia either in Georgia, Moldavia.

Putin is shocked.










Gegenwind für Wladimir Putin: Jahrelanger Verbündeter fällt ihm in den Rücken


Mit diesen Worten hat der Kremlchef wohl nicht gerechnet: Beim Wirtschaftsfor...




www.t-online.de


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538840521061195776

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## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> It was on the second quarter. Well, most of it was.
> 
> Q2 started reporting on March 30, end in June 1. Shanghai started lockdown on March 14/15, and done so for the next 74 days. Which mean out of that 74 days, 58 days are done in Q2. that's more than half of the entire Q2.
> 
> 
> Well, Moody just released an article predicting Chinese GDP growth at 2.8% in 2022.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Global GDP growth forecast at 2.8% in 2022, says Moody’s Analytics
> 
> 
> (VOVWORLD) - Volatility in global commodity markets and an increasingly risk-averse trading environment are likely to sustain inflation well above comfort levels through this year, according to Moody’s Analytics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vovworld.vn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While JP Morgan pegged Q2 Chinese growth at -5.4%
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JP Morgan cuts China’s Q2 2022 GDP growth forecast to -5.4%
> 
> 
> JP Morgan came out with a downbeat economic forecast for China amid the ongoing covid woes, as well as concerns emanating from the Russia-Ukraine cris
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.fxstreet.com


Plz tell me, since 2008, in which year did JPMorgan Chase not substantially underestimate China's economic growth?

The Bank of China predicted that China's real GDP growth in the second quarter was 2.1%.

BTW: the Atlanta Fed's GDP growth forecast for the second quarter of the USA is 0%.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> Ah more participants for the great russian turret tossing competition!



So? Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. Russia can afford to lose 10 million men to retake Donbas. Ukraine cannot afford to lose 10 million men. On top of that, tanks are covered by attack choppers which are good at killing anti tank soldiers.





__





Mi-28NM Super Havoc makes combat debut in Donbas revolution war. Attacking using long range NLOS missiles.






defence.pk

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## F-22Raptor

ZeGerman said:


> Ah more participants for the great russian turret tossing competition!



Keep those pieces of junk coming. The more they bring, the more that will be destroyed. 

97,000 antitank weapons have been sent to Ukraine. Russian armor will always be overwhelmed. 40%-50% of Russian armored forces will be lost by the end of the year IMO.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> Keep those pieces of junk coming. The more they bring, the more that will be destroyed.
> 
> 97,000 antitank weapons have been sent to Ukraine. Russian armor will always be overwhelmed. 40%-50% of Russian armored forces will be lost by the end of the year IMO.



Super Havoc is operational. Javelin soldiers are going to die by the thousands when they get blown up by NLOS missiles.





__





Mi-28NM Super Havoc makes combat debut in Donbas revolution war. Attacking using long range NLOS missiles.






defence.pk







Viet said:


> Oh that is a big slap on Putin‘s face.
> 
> Kasachstan president Toqajew said to Putin his country will not accept the two so-called separatists republics in Donez. It’s violating the international UN Charta.
> Kasachstan will not recognize other territories occupied by Russia either in Georgia, Moldavia.
> 
> Putin is shocked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gegenwind für Wladimir Putin: Jahrelanger Verbündeter fällt ihm in den Rücken
> 
> 
> Mit diesen Worten hat der Kremlchef wohl nicht gerechnet: Beim Wirtschaftsfor...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.t-online.de



If Ukraine recognizes Donbas as so then the rest of the world does so. France beat Britain in American revolution war and forced Britain to recognize America. Ukraine will be forced to recognize Donbas if Ukraine lose 10 million men.

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> He posts facist propaganda, supports genocide and breaks german law. I simply told him that what he does is illegal



Regardless of German "law" *he* posts fascist propaganda and supports genocide ?  Oh man oh man. There is a saying in Hindi / Urdu the South Asian Subcontinent - "Ulta chor kotwal ko daante" ( The thief accuses the police officer of theft ).



jhungary said:


> Again, I have explained to you twice, this is NOT ABOUT Apollon, go back and read both of my post if you want, you keep saying Apollon this or that does not means what I did is for him. And if you keep saying his name, I will get a feeling YOU have a beef with him.



No, I get the feeling that you started something and now you know you are in the wrong so you are making up excuses.



jhungary said:


> I don't care.



Another screenshot taken.



jhungary said:


> Sure, Russia is all saint and they didn't do anything, right? That is the reason why I don't bother to post all that out because it is useless on people like you.



No no, please do inform the forum what the ebeel Russians did in Bucha according to your instructions from Number 10 Downing Street.

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## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> Plz tell me, since 2008, in which year did JPMorgan Chase not substantially underestimate China's economic growth?
> 
> The Bank of China predicted that China's real GDP growth in the second quarter was 2.1%.
> 
> BTW: the Atlanta Fed's GDP growth forecast for the second quarter of the USA is 0%.


Well, UBS also give the YoY growth to 3% in 2022. If you have a problem with the way they estimate Chinese growth, well, you can write them. 

By the way, 0% was the minimum estimte by AtlantaFed, their maximum is 2.5%, most other organisation would put 1.8% by the way



https://www.atlantafed.org/-/media/Documents/cqer/researchcq/gdpnow/RealGDPTrackingSlides.pdf

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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Super Havoc is operational. Javelin soldiers are going to die by the thousands when they get blown up by NLOS missiles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mi-28NM Super Havoc makes combat debut in Donbas revolution war. Attacking using long range NLOS missiles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Ukraine recognizes Donbas as so then the rest of the world does so. France beat Britain in American revolution war and forced Britain to recognize America. Ukraine will be forced to recognize Donbas if Ukraine lose 10 million men.


There is no if. Ukraine will never cede territories for peace. they will fight until the bitter end. It’s FM Kebela said even if no more western weapons they will use spade against the Russians.


----------



## jhungary

jamahir said:


> No, I get the feeling that you started something and now you know you are in the wrong so you are making up excuses.



Are you for real? I have been saying that since Post 1 of the issue.

You on the other hand, like the one making up excuse



jamahir said:


> Another screenshot taken.



Take whatever goddamn thing you need. It ain't gonna change shit.



jamahir said:


> No no, please do inform the forum what the ebeel Russians did in Bucha according to your instructions from Number 10 Downing Street.



LOL. Please do tell me what the Ukrainian do according to your instruction from RT and Kremlin? As if you know shit yourself. Bet you can't even point to me where Irpin is even if I give you a map of Ukraine.


----------



## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> Well, UBS also give the YoY growth to 3% in 2022. If you have a problem with the way they estimate Chinese growth, well, you can write them.
> 
> By the way, 0% was the minimum estimte by AtlantaFed, their maximum is 2.5%, most other organisation would put 1.8% by the way
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.atlantafed.org/-/media/Documents/cqer/researchcq/gdpnow/RealGDPTrackingSlides.pdf


After the Shanghai epidemic ended, the Bank of China lowered its real GDP growth forecast for 2022 from 5.5% to 4%. Swiss banks are also underestimating China's economic growth, but at least it is not as absurd as JPMorgan Chase.

Japan Nomura Securities also lowered the real GDP growth forecast of the USA2022 from 2.5% to 1.8%.

This year, the world economy is not ideal. I don't think Americans have the right to ridicule the Chinese.

Even if China's economic growth rate in 2022 is not as good as that of last year, it is better than that of the USA. And now the USA is raising interest rates and China is cutting interest rates. The US interest rate hike is an overdraft of economic growth potential, intensifies the risk of economic crisis, and will significantly reduce govt revenue.

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## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> After the Shanghai epidemic ended, the Bank of China lowered its real GDP growth forecast for 2022 from 5.5% to 4%. Swiss banks are also underestimating China's economic growth, but at least it is not as absurd as JPMorgan Chase.
> 
> Japan Nomura Securities also lowered the real GDP growth forecast of the USA2022 from 2.5% to 1.8%.
> 
> This year, the world economy is not ideal. I don't think Americans have the right to ridicule the Chinese.


lol, I will have to believe blue chips estimate like JP Morgan and UBS over Bank of China. 

And no, everyone have the right to ridicule everyone, I mean, you ridicule the American already, why can't we do the same?


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> 1. Your friend Apollon once jokingly posted the picture of the jaw of a Russian soldier killed in Ukraine. The jaw was purchased by a psycho friend of his as trophy. Apollon then made amused analysis about how that Russian would have been killed. But I reported that picture post and it was deleted. How can anyone not call these particular Ukrainians as Nazis ?
> 
> 2. Look at below too ( from this post of mine ) where one cannot call these nationalists as anything but Nazis and psychopaths. These are just some of the crimes, go to the post to see more in the history of these filths :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are you, some feudal from last century ?  Well, I am the peasant who revolts.
> 
> 
> 
> I also don't know of a map where a certain village in Syria is but I can assure you I know that the Syrians, Russians, PFLP-GC, the Iranians and other allies are right in eliminating the NATO proxies there called Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood who rampage through Syria on behalf of NATO's regime change plan against the Bashar al Assad government.
> 
> OTOH you may have gone to Ukraine but you ally with psychos, Nazis and barbaric elements. Didn't you watch the vid in this post where a Chechen commander speaks of Ukrainian nationalists taking drugs and then beheading Russia soldiers ? Surely you should know that post because you gave a -ve rating to my reply to that post.



I deleted it myself


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> I deleted it myself



@LeGenD told me it's been taken care of so maybe he got you to delete it. But you have not reformed obviously.

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## Foinikas

jamahir said:


> 1. Your friend Apollon once jokingly posted the picture of the jaw of a Russian soldier killed in Ukraine. The jaw was purchased by a psycho friend of his as trophy. Apollon then made amused analysis about how that Russian would have been killed. But I reported that picture post and it was deleted. How can anyone not call these particular Ukrainians as Nazis ?


He should have been banned on the basis of the photo and comments together. A turk once posted gory photos of dead Turks in Cyprus and although the rules say this is forbidden with ban,he only had the post deleted.

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## jhungary

jamahir said:


> 1. Your friend Apollon once jokingly posted the picture of the jaw of a Russian soldier killed in Ukraine. The jaw was purchased by a psycho friend of his as trophy. Apollon then made amused analysis about how that Russian would have been killed. But I reported that picture post and it was deleted. How can anyone not call these particular Ukrainians as Nazis ?
> 
> 2. Look at below too ( from this post of mine ) where one cannot call these nationalists as anything but Nazis and psychopaths. These are just some of the crimes, go to the post to see more in the history of these filths :



For the nth time, those rating have NOTHING to do with Apollon, as already explained, the first one is you pull a cheapshot over almost the entire NATO supporting member on this thread. That may included Apollon but not on him alone. The second is for your passive aggressive name calling. 

And if you are too gaga to understand why, that's your business.



jamahir said:


> What are you, some feudal from last century ?  Well, I am the peasant who revolts.



I already said, I don't care, I am not the "Authority" or "Management" in this forum,. go revolt on them if you want, but I have a feeling this is not a place for democracy, they are going to quash you like a bug,



jamahir said:


> I also don't know of a map where a certain village in Syria is but I can assure you I know that the Syrians, Russians, PFLP-GC, the Iranians and other allies are right in eliminating the NATO proxies there called Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood who rampage through Syria on behalf of NATO's regime change plan against the Bashar al Assad government.
> 
> OTOH you may have gone to Ukraine but you ally with psychos, Nazis and barbaric elements. Didn't you watch the vid in this post where a Chechen commander speaks of Ukrainian nationalists taking drugs and then beheading Russia soldiers ? Surely you should know that post because you gave a -ve rating to my reply to that post.



You know shit because you know shit, How do you know those video is legit when you cannot even confirm to me that they were shot in Ukraine. And that's because you can't even show me you know the landscape, it could have been anywhere with people from any country. 

Also for the last time, DON'T DRAG ME ON YOUR POINT. I don't work work with Psychos, Nazis and Barbaric element. The only barbaric element I saw is Russian, and see how easy I did not drag you into the point of discussion??

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> @LeGenD told me it's been taken care of so maybe he got you to delete it. But you have not reformed obviously.



Nope i deleted it. Got no message regarding that.


----------



## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> He posts facist propaganda, supports genocide and breaks german law. I simply told him that what he does is illegal


"Fascist"?

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## ckf

RoadAmerica said:


> Cool who’s China going to trade with then? ASEAN, Russia? That won’t work out to well as most of those citizens don’t have disposable income to buy Chinese junk.


Bro, whatever suits your definition of Chinese Junk, but US/EU consumers/industries can't seem to get enough of it. But who's going to buy the Fed treasuries/EU junk bonds to finance the debt? Global trade and finance works like a mechanical clock, once you throw a wrench into the gears, everything falls apart. What happens next has serious complication for everybody. As for who's going to China trade with, the world still has 7 billion people I checked, if there is a will there is a way. Disposable income is perception based and depend on the toilet paper you print with.

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## ckf

MH.Yang said:


> After the Shanghai epidemic ended, the Bank of China lowered its real GDP growth forecast for 2022 from 5.5% to 4%. Swiss banks are also underestimating China's economic growth, but at least it is not as absurd as JPMorgan Chase.
> 
> Japan Nomura Securities also lowered the real GDP growth forecast of the USA2022 from 2.5% to 1.8%.
> 
> This year, the world economy is not ideal. I don't think Americans have the right to ridicule the Chinese.
> 
> Even if China's economic growth rate in 2022 is not as good as that of last year, it is better than that of the USA. And now the USA is raising interest rates and China is cutting interest rates. The US interest rate hike is an overdraft of economic growth potential, intensifies the risk of economic crisis, and will significantly reduce govt revenue.


All these forecast are too optimistic, and pointless. Probabilities for financial meltdown this fall increased exponentially due to US/EU sanctions and global interest rate hikes. If inflation persist/purchasing power reduction continues, global recession probably already started.


----------



## MH.Yang

ckf said:


> All these forecast are too optimistic, and pointless. Probabilities for financial meltdown this fall increased exponentially due to US/EU sanctions and global interest rate hikes. If inflation persist/purchasing power reduction continues, global recession probably already started.


Yes, we are facing the global economic crisis. But the crisis may not affect China. The 2008 economic crisis left China unscathed.

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## ckf

MH.Yang said:


> Yes, we are facing the global economic crisis. But the crisis may not affect China. The 2008 economic crisis left China unscathed.


The very nature of deglobalization hurts everyone, and your optimism might be too high. China possibly be better off than a lot of countries, but pain exist none the less. It's like a race to the bottom of the barrel. Biden admin has been a complete disaster to America, and hopefully democrats lose control of house and senate and neuter this idiotic admin. I still hold a lot of US investments and this idiot is wrecking it all.

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## nang2

ckf said:


> The very nature of deglobalization hurts everyone, and your optimism might be too high. China possibly be better off than a lot of countries, but pain exist none the less. It's like a race to the bottom of the barrel. Biden admin has been a complete disaster to America, and hopefully democrats lose control of house and senate and neuter this idiotic admin. I still hold a lot of US investments and this idiot is wrecking it all.


During downturn, comparing with Americans holding Canadian investment, Canadians holding American investment are better off since whenever the stock market crashes, US dollar goes up so it damps the damage while Americans get double whammy.


----------



## Dalit

jamahir said:


> I have reported @Apollon's post and hope for a permaban. His terrorizing of other members and psychopathy has gone on for too long. @Foinikas knows how Apollon would claim to champion Western-governments-enabled freedom of speech and supreme democracy in the Western bloc but here is Apollon doing everything opposite to his own claims.
> 
> I too have received occasional threats from the Hindutvadis on the forum including of veiled violence and these are the same ones who claim that India is "The largest democracy in the world".
> 
> SalarHaqq, he may indeed report you to his atrocious government departments so you should engage with the sane members of European society - progressive groups. But I don't know about the longevity of such progressive groups because yesterday I told Apollon about how the pro-Russia former chancellor of Germany, Gerhard Schroder, almost had a ban against him speaking publicly about Ukraine in Germany and this was in 2014 ! And two pro-NATO German parties CDU and CSU want EU to impose sanctions on Gerhard much like how Apollon wants EU to impose social and socio-economic sanctions on you which can be various things - loss of internet access, removal from employment, loss of bank account etc against you and your family if you have them there and any friend or colleague of yours sympathetic to you. This is plain terrorism which NATO proudly excels at for the 74 years of its existence.
> 
> 
> 
> Many of these drug-taking-and-then-fighting Ukrainians must be doing it because they are being forced to fight on the threat of jail or death. Though some might be taking them to enhance ferocity and act as pain killer and in history such was part of some cultures - like the Rajputs and Nihang Sikhs in India.
> 
> And the Ukrainians cutting heads of their Russian / ally enemies either because of fanaticism or drug-induced enhanced fanaticism must be punished. @Vergennes @Wood @F-22Raptor @Beny Karachun @Get Ya Wig Split, see what psychopaths you and NATO support.
> 
> @_Nabil_ @RescueRanger



Wow. Look who gave you negative ratings. They work in tandem, don't they? I don't understand how PDF moderators can allow such incredibly biased members to become think tanks and what not. The vitriol that some of these so-called professionals spew is not worthy of toilet paper. I understand that the people who run this forum want diversity etc. Why not carefully vet each member before handing out think tank and other priviliges?

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## ckf

nang2 said:


> During downturn, comparing with Americans holding Canadian investment, Canadians holding American investment are better off since whenever the stock market crashes, US dollar goes up so it damps the damage while Americans get double whammy.


I had a chance to sell in May, but thought EU/Biden can't be this stupid to continue with escalation of the sanctions. Two month later, the worst case scenarios are becoming true, and the worst part is this can get worst. I am hoping for a dead cat bounce and wait out the financial Armageddon. This is going to be worst than the 2008 mortgage tsunamis. Global purchasing power destruction is like 10x worse than in 2008. Biden Admin/EU assemblies are commiting hara-kiri.

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## nang2

ckf said:


> I had a chance to sell in May, but thought EU/Biden can't be this stupid to continue with escalation of the sanctions. Two month later, the worst case scenarios are becoming true, and the worst part is this can get worst. I am hoping for a dead cat bounce and wait out the financial Armageddon. This is going to be worst than the 2008 mortgage tsunamis. Global purchasing power destruction is like 10x worse than in 2008.


Look at this way. It may become a buy-in opportunity.

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## jamahir

Dalit said:


> Wow. Look who gave you negative ratings. They work in tandem, don't they? I don't understand how PDF moderators can allow such incredibly biased members to become think tanks and what not. The vitriol that some of these so-called professionals spew is not worthy of toilet paper. I understand that the people who run this forum want diversity etc. Why not carefully vet each member before handing out think tank and other priviliges?



Absolutely they work in tandem ! Sad that mods are absent today despite me tagging three mods twice. These two "Professionals" may be in the military and all that but shouldn't mean they consider themselves some nawabs and others as their slaves. And you are right, their opinions are atrocious and there should be careful test of their opinions gauged before giving them a title. I also think this -ve ranking facility should be removed.

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## Viet

ckf said:


> I had a chance to sell in May, but thought EU/Biden can't be this stupid to continue with escalation of the sanctions. Two month later, the worst case scenarios are becoming true, and the worst part is this can get worst. I am hoping for a dead cat bounce and wait out the financial Armageddon. This is going to be worst than the 2008 mortgage tsunamis. Global purchasing power destruction is like 10x worse than in 2008. Biden Admin/EU assemblies are taking hara-kiri to itself.


In case you are sleeping there is a war in Ukraine. I don’t understand why you are blind. It’s Russia to blame because it creates this mess. Claiming US/EU reactions is stupid makes you look stupid. This war causes global crisis without exception. Every country suffers. Putin has in his hand to end this crisis.
Why don’t you write him a letter calling for end of war?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/153879398132847001

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538799224787292160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538843757638033408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538839461559160832

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538838697445052416


Viet said:


> This war causes global crisis without exception. Every country suffers. Putin has in his hand to end this crisis.
> Why don’t you write him a letter calling for end of war?



The war ends when the Kiev regime stops shelling Donbas children.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538930830222974976


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538930830222974976



No spare parts. Don't last very long.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538928186033115136

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538929553980129280

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538944255640625152


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538838441013792768

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538838169373839361


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537848521910525952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537848523244306434

The US has launched 4 consecutive Trident ballistic missiles

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537848521910525952
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537848523244306434
> 
> The US has launched 4 consecutive Trident ballistic missiles



Wrong thread.

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## RoadAmerica

MH.Yang said:


> Your news is too backward. In the second quarter, China's blockade was lifted.
> 
> China's blockade of Shanghai occurred in the first quarter, and now the COVID cases in Shanghai have been cleared.
> 
> In fact, the blockade of Shanghai has little impact on China's economy. On the contrary, it has a great impact on the inflation rate of western countries.


Lol, ok let’s come back to this when you can admits China is in their own definition of a recession. Don’t take my word for it, look it up.


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Wrong thread.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## letsrock

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The support of Putin is not about what is right and what is wrong.
> It is about always taking the side of those that attack Western Values.
> Ukraines desire to join EU for economic reasons and NATO to seek protection makes them the enemy of those that hate the West, part out of envy, and part out of anger that Western values are in conflict with their own, and still seems to be successful.
> That makes them defend every dictator long past the time they are killed by their own people.
> Logic reasoning will not affect them.



what are western values you keep parroting as if they are some eternal values that came from outer space?
Before 1945 each western nation was at the throat of another in addition to being at throat of vast majority of asian and african countries who did nothing to west. 

in US Benjamin franklin called germans "swarthy" and undesirable and there was always an undercurent to anti-germanism. Madison grant worked to restrict immigration from italy/greece and East europeans treating them as undesirables. In second world war during fire bombing of Dresden , British Air chief marshall Athur Harris said "I do not personally regard the whole of the remaining cities of Germany as worth the bones of one British Grenadier."

Most of the current western values you talks about have been materially shaped after 1945 thanks to credible left wing alternative in Soviet , increasing worker rights and the humongous sacrifice of Soviet army in 1939-45.

Let me ask you one question if west is so self sufficient and satisfied why does it keep inviting immigrants from outside or interfering in wars outside ?
West is part of the same world others are. It did some good things and bad things - stop acting like everyone else is out to get you. Yours is the mentality which starts wars and sufferings.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538906915585105926






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538926384541749248


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538964499520229376


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538968658562715648


----------



## Viet

“Sky project”

Ukraine air defense is building Iron Dome.









Ukraine is building its own Iron Dome. This US company is key


Ukraine is modernizing its air defense system, creating its own version of Israel's Iron Dome with the assistance of U.S. based tech company JustAnswer.




www.foxnews.com


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538974785434226690


----------



## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538968658562715648



They'll pop off their turrets just like the Russian tanks...ahhh, I love the smell of burning Ukie neo-Nazis in the morning.

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## sammuel

letsrock said:


> what are western values you keep parroting as if they are some eternal values that came from outer space?
> Before 1945 each western nation was at the throat of another in addition to being at throat of vast majority of asian and african countries who did nothing to west.
> 
> in US Benjamin franklin called germans "swarthy" and undesirable and there was always an undercurent to anti-germanism. Madison grant worked to restrict immigration from italy/greece and East europeans treating them as undesirables. In second world war during fire bombing of Dresden , British Air chief marshall Athur Harris said "I do not personally regard the whole of the remaining cities of Germany as worth the bones of one British Grenadier."
> 
> Most of the current western values you talks about have been materially shaped after 1945 thanks to credible left wing alternative in Soviet , increasing worker rights and the humongous sacrifice of Soviet army in 1939-45.
> 
> Let me ask you one question if west is so self sufficient and satisfied why does it keep inviting immigrants from outside or interfering in wars outside ?
> West is part of the same world others are. It did some good things and bad things - stop acting like everyone else is out to get you. Yours is the mentality which starts wars and sufferings.



How about this values :

After starting WW2 by invading Poland , Russians took it upon themselves to enslave half of Europe behind the iron curtain. By some sort of miracle the , soviet Union fell , without a shot being fired .And all those nations got their freedom back , Russians included.

Today in Russia . dictatorship strengthen , little that was left of free press gone , and opposition like Navalny arrested.

Add to that , an invasion to a neighboring country in order to subjugate them , - and you can see why to many it is a return backwards to a darker time.


~

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## Soldier35

American actor and producer Ben Stiller arrived in Ukraine and met with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. The corresponding video was published in the Telegram channel of the Ukrainian leader.










In Ukraine, self-made MLRS mounted on cars began to appear. Apparently, a shortage of MLRS began to be felt in the country and the military began to install B-8M aircraft installations with unguided missiles of the S-8 type on car trailers. It is not clear how the soldiers aim at the target, perhaps some mechanisms are installed in the trailer. S-8 missiles have a flight range of up to 2,000 meters and a warhead weight of about 12 kilograms. Block B-8M contains 20 missiles, its curb weight is 450 kilograms.


----------



## Asad1616

How Russia justifies its illegal annexations by always referencing to Kosovo Read Here


----------



## RoadAmerica

MH.Yang said:


> After the Shanghai epidemic ended, the Bank of China lowered its real GDP growth forecast for 2022 from 5.5% to 4%. Swiss banks are also underestimating China's economic growth, but at least it is not as absurd as JPMorgan Chase.
> 
> Japan Nomura Securities also lowered the real GDP growth forecast of the USA2022 from 2.5% to 1.8%.
> 
> This year, the world economy is not ideal. I don't think Americans have the right to ridicule the Chinese.
> 
> Even if China's economic growth rate in 2022 is not as good as that of last year, it is better than that of the USA. And now the USA is raising interest rates and China is cutting interest rates. The US interest rate hike is an overdraft of economic growth potential, intensifies the risk of economic crisis, and will significantly reduce govt revenue.


Seriously? You can’t compare growth rates of a developing economy to a developed on, once again China has entered a recession by their own standards


----------



## Corax

Soldier35 said:


> American actor and producer Ben Stiller arrived in Ukraine and met with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. The corresponding video was published in the Telegram channel of the Ukrainian leader.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Ukraine, self-made MLRS mounted on cars began to appear. Apparently, a shortage of MLRS began to be felt in the country and the military began to install B-8M aircraft installations with unguided missiles of the S-8 type on car trailers. It is not clear how the soldiers aim at the target, perhaps some mechanisms are installed in the trailer. S-8 missiles have a flight range of up to 2,000 meters and a warhead weight of about 12 kilograms. Block B-8M contains 20 missiles, its curb weight is 450 kilograms.



Wow, the Ukie Nazis must be getting really desperate and low on hardware if they have to resort to placing aircraft rocket launchers on the back of trailers.

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## RoadAmerica

MH.Yang said:


> Yes, we are facing the global economic crisis. But the crisis may not affect China. The 2008 economic crisis left China unscathed.


Oh come on left China unscathed seriously 🤷🏿‍♂️
It’s a global economy China is and will continue to be effected.
You obviously don’t know much about economics or are just parrot the ccp bs talking points.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> No spare parts. Don't last very long.


Dude just stop, take your Donbas children and just leave already


----------



## RoadAmerica

Corax said:


> They'll pop off their turrets just like the Russian tanks...ahhh, I love the smell of burning Ukie neo-Nazis in the morning.


Lol. With all those captured atgm’s? 
Not sure what Russia is going to use to defeat them.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538996470304722945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539000177859645441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539002131725811714

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538996683853398016

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538996195531665410

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538996046621290496


Asad1616 said:


> How Russia justifies its illegal annexations by always referencing to Kosovo Read Here



Kosovo is not a UN member state. Serbia considers Kosovo as Serbian land. Russia vetoed Kosovo's UN membership bid.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## letsrock

sammuel said:


> How about this values :
> 
> After starting WW2 by invading Poland , Russians took it upon themselves to enslave half of Europe behind the iron curtain. By some sort of miracle the , soviet Union fell , without a shot being fired .And all those nations got their freedom back , Russians included.
> 
> Today in Russia . dictatorship strengthen , little that was left of free press gone , and opposition like Navalny arrested.
> 
> Add to that , an invasion to a neighboring country in order to subjugate them , - and you can see why to many it is a return backwards to a darker time.
> 
> 
> ~


 I asked about western values - especially pre 1939. Your answer is "look over to Russia now". 
Russia - Ukraine war must end - no doubt about that. No decent person supports war. but framing Russia - Ukraine war as a war over western values is one of the key reasons why this enimity is so entrenched. Ukraine and supporters of ukraine seem to believe this is a far greater war of western values against savages which is completely unhelpful to solve the issue.
If you cannot see this then there is nothing to say.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538990620974403585

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Dalit

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538996470304722945
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539000177859645441
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539002131725811714
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538996683853398016
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538996195531665410
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538996046621290496
> 
> 
> Kosovo is not a UN member state. Serbia considers Kosovo as Serbian land. Russia vetoed Kosovo's UN membership bid.



The Chechens are in absolute beast mode.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> Oh come on left China unscathed seriously 🤷🏿‍♂️
> It’s a global economy China is and will continue to be effected.



Even if China's economy collapses, it's morally better than letting the Kiev regime shell Donbas children. If Americans want the war to end, all they have to do is tell the Kiev regime to stop shelling Donbas children. The war can end within 1 day if Americans want the war to end.

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## RoadAmerica

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Even if China's economy collapses, it's morally better than letting the Kiev regime shell Donbas children. If Americans want the war to end, all they have to do is tell the Kiev regime to stop shelling Donbas children. The war can end within 1 day if Americans want the war to end.


Putin can do the same, your logic is awful 👍🏿


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

RoadAmerica said:


> Putin can do the same, your logic is awful 👍🏿



Putin says the war ends the day the Kiev regime stops shelling Donbas children. Donbas declared secession from Ukraine following Euro Maidan. The Kiev regime been shelling Donbas children since 2014.

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Putin says the war ends the day the Kiev regime stops shelling Donbas children. Donbas declared secession from Ukraine following Euro Maidan. The Kiev regime been shelling Donbas children since 2014.


What a load of crap. Basically Putin just made up an excuse to annex a neighboring country, and the russian propaganda machine put it on repeat until the muppets caught it and started flooding the internet with this false narrative.

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## Corax

RoadAmerica said:


> Lol. With all those captured atgm’s?
> Not sure what Russia is going to use to defeat them.



Russian ATGMs, captured NATO supplied ATGMs, KA-52s, Mi-28 Havocs, Mi-35s, Russian tanks...a lot more options than the Ukrainian Nazis.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538996470304722945
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539000177859645441
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539002131725811714
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538996683853398016
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538996195531665410
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538996046621290496
> 
> 
> Kosovo is not a UN member state. Serbia considers Kosovo as Serbian land. Russia vetoed Kosovo's UN membership bid.



Chechens sure know how to kill those Uki Nazis like rats...never seen bodies fly up in the air like that before.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539016881021009920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538838697445052416


MeFishToo said:


> What a load of crap. Basically Putin just made up an excuse to annex a neighboring country, and the russian propaganda machine put in on repeat until the muppets caught it and started flooding the internet with this false narrative.



Denmark lost Schleswig-Holstein to Germany in Denmark Germany war. Why don't you take that back?

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## Elvin

Yes Donbas which Putin instigated a conflict in by engineering the secession from Ukraine and then arming the population to rebel against Kiev to only use Kiev’s reaction as a Casus Belli to invade whole of Ukraine. Russia lost a chess game and is acting like a soar loser who fights after.

Again, this just made NATO stronger, more united and defense spending will go through the roof in Europe. Trump’s goals for NATO have been fulfilled by Putin. Now 2% is easily met.

Once Sweden and Finals join and later Ireland, Austria and Bosnia Russia will lose. Ukraine will join too in the future and I guarantee you Belarus is next on the line for democratization.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539002898163462145


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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 20​Jun 20, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF
*Karolina Hird, Kateryna Stepanenko, and Frederick W. Kagan
June 20, 5:30 pm ET*​*Click here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Ukrainian officials are emphasizing that the coming week will be decisive for Russian efforts to take control of Severodonetsk.[1] *Deputy Ukrainian Defense Minister Hanna Malyar reported that Russian leadership has set June 26 as the deadline for Russian forces to reach the Luhansk Oblast administrative border, which will likely result in intensified efforts to take full control of Severodonetsk and move westward towards the Oblast border.[2] Head of the Luhansk Regional State Administration Serhiy Haidai reported that Russian forces control all of Severodonetsk except for the industrial zone as of June 20, which is the first explicit Ukrainian confirmation that Russian forces control all of Severodonetsk with the exception of the Azot plant.[3] Russian forces will likely continue efforts to clear the Azot plant and complete encirclement operations south of Severodonetsk and Lysychansk by driving up the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway.
*Russian authorities likely seek to leverage the consequences of Russia’s blockade on Ukrainian grain exports in order to cajole the West into weakening its sanctions. *Head of state-owned propaganda outlet _RT_ Margarita Simonyan stated on June 20 that the famine caused by Russia’s blockade on grain exports will force the rest of the world to lift sanctions in order to curb further effects of global famine.[4] Simonyan’s statement is especially salient considering a report by the UK’s Foreign, Commonwealth, and Development Office that Ukraine had generated 12% of global wheat and barley exports and that Russia’s blockade has trapped over 20 million tons of grain in storage.[5]
*The UK Ministry of Defense claimed on June 20 that consistent failures of the Russian air force have significantly contributed to Russia’s limited success in Ukraine.[6] *The UK MoD emphasized that the Russian air force has continually underperformed and been largely risk-averse, failing to establish air superiority or give Russian forces a decisive advantage in Ukraine. The report additionally claimed that training procedures for air force personnel are scripted and designed to impress senior officials but do not adequately prepare personnel for the challenges of active air combat.
*Key Takeaways*

*Ukrainian sources stated that the coming week will be decisive for Russian forces to complete the capture of Severodonetsk and that Russian forces will focus troops and equipment on the area.*
*Ukrainian sources confirmed that Russian forces control all of Severodonetsk with the exception of the Azot industrial zone, where fights are ongoing.*
*Russian sources are likely setting information conditions to justify slow and unsuccessful advances towards Slovyansk from the southeast of Izyum and west of Lyman.*
*Russian forces are likely intensifying operations to interdict Ukrainian lines of communication along the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway in order to support escalating operations in Severodonetsk-Lysychansk.*
*Russian forces continued to focus on resisting further Ukrainian advances north of Kharkiv City towards the international border.*
*Russian forces are continuing defensive operations along the Southern Axis.*
*Ukrainian partisan activity is continuing to complicate efforts by Russian occupation authorities to consolidate control of occupied areas.*
*

*
*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Ukrainian sources confirmed that Russian forces control all of Severodonetsk except for the Azot chemical plant, where fights are ongoing on June 20. Head of the Luhansk Oblast Administration Serhiy Haidai stated that Ukrainian troops “only control the Azot plant” and that Russian troops are fighting within the industrial zone.[7] Haidai additionally confirmed that Russian forces took control of the southeastern suburb of Metolkine, but claimed that the remaining Ukrainian forces in Severodonetsk are still not completely encircled.[8] Deputy Ukrainian Defense Minister Hanna Malyar stated that the coming week will be decisive for Russian forces to complete the capture of Severodonetsk and that Russian leadership has set June 26 as the deadline for Russian forces to reach the Luhansk Oblast administrative borders.[9] Russian forces are accumulating equipment around Toshkivka, which is still highly-contested territory, and are drawing equipment into Starobilsk (approximately 40km northeast of Severodonetsk in Russian-occupied Luhansk Oblast) to support operations in Severodonetsk from the east.[10] Russian forces will likely continue to funnel troops and equipment into Severodonetsk to complete the capture of the industrial zone in the coming week.



Russian forces focused on maintaining positions to the southeast of Izyum and west of Lyman but did not make any confirmed advances towards Slovyansk on June 20.[11] Russian forces reportedly conducted an unsuccessful assault on Bohorodychne, about 20 kilometers northwest of Slovyansk.[12] Russian Telegram channel “Military chronicle” notably claimed that Ukrainian positions around Slovyansk are highly fortified and on “dominant heights,” which likely is an attempt to set information conditions to justify slow, grinding, and largely unsuccessful Russian advances towards Slovyansk.[13] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian troops around Lyman are conducting continual airstrikes and attempting to prevent Ukrainian forces from regrouping in this area.[14] Russian forces remain unlikely to advance on Slovyansk as they concentrate resources on completing the capture of Severodonetsk and the rest of Luhansk Oblast.
Russian forces continued efforts to interdict Ukrainian lines of communication east of Bakhmut along the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway but did not make any confirmed advances on June 20.[15] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian sabotage groups near Bakhmut conducted an unsuccessful assault on Mykolaivka, which is a settlement directly along the T1302 highway.[16] Chechen troops additionally continued efforts to take control of Zolote to further support efforts to interdict Ukrainian lines of communication along the T1302.[17] Ukrainian officials have stated that the coming week will be decisive for the Russian offensive on Severodonetsk and Lysychansk, and Russian troops will likely further intensify artillery attacks east of Bakhmut along the T1302 in order to set conditions for an offensive northward to support the encirclement of Ukrainian troops in Severodonetsk-Lysychansk from the south.[18]



*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces north of Kharkiv City continued to focus on preventing further Ukrainian advances towards the international border on June 20.[19] Deputy Ukrainian Defense Minister Hanna Malyar claimed that Ukrainian troops have nearly reached the Russian border in Kharkiv Oblast and that Ukrainian forces still have some territory to liberate north of Kharkiv City.[20] While ISW cannot independently confirm the positions of Ukrainian troops near the Russian border, Ukrainian counteroffensive operations in this area will likely continue to pressure Russian troops to fight for control of occupied frontiers and intensify artillery attacks against Ukrainian positions around Kharkiv City.[21] Russian forces additionally conducted artillery attacks and unsuccessful reconnaissance-in-force southeast of Kharkiv City, likely in response to Ukrainian counteroffensive actions southeast of Kharkiv City heading towards the Izyum area.[22]



*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces focused on defensive operations and fired on Ukrainian positions along the Southern Axis on June 20.[23] Russian forces intensified artillery strikes on the Mykolaiv-Kherson Oblast border, likely in response to recent Ukrainian counterattacks along the border south of Davydiv Brid and just north of Kherson City.[24] Ukraine’s Zaporizhia Oblast Military Administration stated that Russian forces are continuing to move equipment northwards towards the Vasylivka district (approximately 40 kilometers south of Zaporizhia City) in order to fortify and defend occupied positions in western Zaporizhia Oblast.[25] Commander of the Azov Regiment Rodion Kudryshov notably claimed that Ukrainian forces in Zaporizhia have moved from defensive to offensive positions, which is consistent with reporting that Russian troops are concentrating forces and equipment in Zaporizhia Oblast to prepare for potential Ukrainian counteroffensives.[26] Russian forces are reportedly engaging in continual counter-battery operations along the E105 (also known as the M18) highway that runs through Vasylivka south of Zaporizhia City.[27] Russian forces continued missile and artillery strikes against various areas of Kherson, Zaporizhia, Dnipropetrovsk, Mykolaiv, and Odesa Oblasts.[28]



*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian authorities continued to struggle with consolidating control of occupied territories in the face of persistent Ukrainian partisan pressure. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported on June 20 that mass partisan activity in occupied territories is preventing Russian authorities from being able to present public support for the accession of these areas to Russia.[29] The Ukrainian Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) similarly claimed that Russian authorities in Berdyansk are faking queues for Russian passports at local administrative centers in order to fabricate a false façade of public desire for Russian citizenship.[30] The GUR additionally reported that Russian occupation authorities in Starobilsk, Luhansk Oblast, are coercing people into collective farming schemes and forcing those who work in these schemes into taking Russian citizenship.[31] Ukrainian partisan activity is likely having administrative consequences on Russian efforts to institute Russian citizenship processes_ en masse_ within occupied territories.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539039493050843137

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539022986791071745


Elvin said:


> Yes Donbas which Putin instigated a conflict in by engineering the secession from Ukraine and then arming the population to rebel against Kiev to only use Kiev’s reaction as a Casus Belli to invade whole of Ukraine. Russia lost a chess game and is acting like a soar loser who fights after.
> 
> Again, this just made NATO stronger, more united and defense spending will go through the roof in Europe. Trump’s goals for NATO have been fulfilled by Putin. Now 2% is easily met.
> 
> Once Sweden and Finals join and later Ireland, Austria and Bosnia Russia will lose. Ukraine will join too in the future and I guarantee you Belarus is next on the line for democratization.



Well, if the Kiev regime didn't want to lose Donbas, then they shouldn't have ousted Yanukovych who was from Donbas. Did the Kiev regime think they can trash Yanukovych and expect Donbas to suck it up?

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## MH.Yang

RoadAmerica said:


> Oh come on left China unscathed seriously 🤷🏿‍♂️
> It’s a global economy China is and will continue to be effected.
> You obviously don’t know much about economics or are just parrot the ccp bs talking points.
> 
> 
> Dude just stop, take your Donbas children and just leave already


I agree that the Biden administration's interest rate hike is likely to trigger an economic crisis in the world, not just in the USA. However, as the factory of the world, China has been the least affected country in all previous economic crises. And the Bank of China is already cutting interest rates to prepare in advance for the risks of the economic crisis. 
In 2008, it was Obama who begged for help from China that saved the USA from the economic crisis. You'd better pray that China, the last bastion of the world economy, will not be defeated by the economic crisis. If so, at least we will save the USA again. Otherwise, you should not expect the USA to recover as quickly as in 2008.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539001837428277248

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539001837428277248

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538937540115316737

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539023867766886402

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539084187835187201

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539084898392231936


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539091560528334848

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## Viet

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539091560528334848


Russia is finished. It no longer belongs to Europe. It doesn’t want to, either. Putin sees the future of Russia in Asia, with China, with India. 30 years economic progress is in the trash bin. 30 years interactions with the West is winding down. What a tragedy.


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## kingQamaR

Aye, it's a conundrum alright. Do we side with the democracy that got invaded by a country that signed a treaty promising not to invade it 30 years ago, or do we side with the country run by a kleptocratic mafia that regularly threatens to nuke the west. A real head scratcher this is

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## ckf

Viet said:


> Russia is finished. It no longer belongs to Europe. It doesn’t want to, either. Putin sees the future of Russia in Asia, with China, with India. 30 years economic progress is in the trash bin. 30 years interactions with the West is winding down. What a tragedy.


I think its the other way around, EU needs Russia. EU is an dysfunctional amalgamation of disinterest with poor natural resources and horrific demographics. Russia is energy rich, abundant natural resources, and a military powerhouse. EU technical knowhow + Russia's energy/resources produced an industrial power house. US/Nato turned Russia into Euro enemy #1, and now Europe just increased its production cost greatly and lost a big market in Russia. So Putin's shift to Asia is really EU's loss. US strategically benefit from Ukraine war in the long run because Euro will be less able to compete with USD. Asian coutries also wins because Russian oil will be readily/cheaply available to industrialize asia. India is also a big winner since oil is essential to infrastructure buildout.



kingQamaR said:


> Aye, it's a conundrum alright. Do we side with the democracy that got invaded by a country that signed a treaty promising not to invade it 30 years ago, or do we side with the country run by a kleptocratic mafia that regularly threatens to nuke the west. A real head scratcher this is


I just enjoyed all the footages, it's like Truman's show on steroids.

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## Viet

ckf said:


> I think its the other way around, EU needs Russia. EU is an dysfunctional amalgamation of disinterest with poor natural resources and horrific demographics. Russia is energy rich, abundant natural resources, and a military powerhouse. EU technical knowhow + Russia's energy/resources produced an industrial power house. US/Nato turned Russia into Euro enemy #1, and now Europe just increased its production cost greatly and lost a big market in Russia. So Putin's shift to Asia is really EU's loss. US strategically benefit from Ukraine war in the long run because Euro will be less able to compete with USD. Asian coutries also wins because Russian oil will be readily/cheaply available to industrialize asia. India is also a big winner since oil is essential to infrastructure buildout.
> 
> 
> I just enjoyed all the footages, it's like Truman's show on steroids.


You oversee the large picture. I tell you. It’s Russia it invades Ukraine. It’s sole decision. Nobody forces Putin to take his country to war.
EU will survive the inflation.
EU will survive Russia energy boycott.
Even during the Cold War there were interactions and talks, USSR energy delivery to the west never stopped. now all is silent. The US is the winner. The US successfully cuts all EU ties to Russia. EU is more reliant on the US than ever before.

If you feel good then be it.

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## kingQamaR

ckf said:


> I think its the other way around, EU needs Russia. EU is an dysfunctional amalgamation of disinterest with poor natural resources and horrific demographics. Russia is energy rich, abundant natural resources, and a military powerhouse. EU technical knowhow + Russia's energy/resources produced an industrial power house. US/Nato turned Russia into Euro enemy #1, and now Europe just increased its production cost greatly and lost a big market in Russia. So Putin's shift to Asia is really EU's loss. US strategically benefit from Ukraine war in the long run because Euro will be less able to compete with USD. Asian coutries also wins because Russian oil will be readily/cheaply available to industrialize asia. India is also a big winner since oil is essential to infrastructure buildout.
> 
> 
> I just enjoyed all the footages, it's like Truman's show on steroids.




And the point about Russian oil and gas - is that is dependent on a million miles of fixed pipelines - much of that infrastructure geared to supplying the West. They may be striking deals with China and India - but getting the oil and gas there is a huge logistical problem

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## Viet

kingQamaR said:


> And the point about Russian oil and gas - is that is dependent on a million miles of fixed pipelines - much of that infrastructure geared to supplying the West. They may be striking deals with China and India - but getting the oil and gas there is a huge logistical problem


It took Russia and former USSR 50 years to build the energy infra to Europe. Mostly by German companies. Putin destroys it few months.
Putin makes Russia to a chinese colony. Xi Jingping is clearly the great winner. Russia relies on China than ever before. Putin will build the pipelines with subpar chinese, Indian technology.
The EU will survive the crisis.
In 10 years from now homes, factories, cars will run on solar, wind, hydrogen.

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## sammuel

letsrock said:


> No decent person supports war.



On this we can agree. War stinks. It is a sin against man and god.

Two countries , so blessed with land and resources , have no reason to fight.

By the end of WW1 , about a 100 years ago , there were approximately 5,000 heavy guns on the fronts .Now the the number of artillery pieces come close to that. So what have humanity learned in a 100 years ?


~

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## sammuel

kingQamaR said:


> Aye, it's a conundrum alright. Do we side with the democracy that got invaded by a country that signed a treaty promising not to invade it 30 years ago, or do we side with the country run by a kleptocratic mafia that regularly threatens to nuke the west. A real head scratcher this is



lol , had to look up kleptocratic in the dictionary , 

Comes from the Greek words : _kléptēs_, "thief", κλέπτω _kléptō_, "I steal"

~


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## jhungary

ckf said:


> I think its the other way around, EU needs Russia. EU is an dysfunctional amalgamation of disinterest with poor natural resources and horrific demographics. Russia is energy rich, abundant natural resources, and a military powerhouse. EU technical knowhow + Russia's energy/resources produced an industrial power house. US/Nato turned Russia into Euro enemy #1, and now Europe just increased its production cost greatly and lost a big market in Russia. So Putin's shift to Asia is really EU's loss. US strategically benefit from Ukraine war in the long run because Euro will be less able to compete with USD. Asian coutries also wins because Russian oil will be readily/cheaply available to industrialize asia. India is also a big winner since oil is essential to infrastructure buildout.
> 
> 
> I just enjoyed all the footages, it's like Truman's show on steroids.


In term of Economic hostility, Russia needed EU more than EU need Russia.

It's all about Alternative market. And the lost of profit that comes with.

First of all, while EU will suffer in the short term, it's most likely is not a catastrophic event for EU that is simply based on 2 assumption

1.) There are alternative supplier in lieu of Russian oil and gas (US, Canada and Middle East)
2.) The price inflated is about 20-30%, while it will take a hit on industry, it's not fatal, also, it will be incurred in end user anyway, most of EU product are not solely intent for EU market. EU government can and most likely will subsidize those affected in a short term basis just like they do with COVID 19 Pandemic Relief.

Which mean it will be projected with a price/cost ratio hike probably in 2022 and 2023, but then it will be stabilised as alternative market emerges.

On the other hand EU buy 41% of all Russian Oil and Gas Product. While Russia can transfer some of the deficit to China and/or India, but that is to a point. First of all, both China and India have their own oil and gas contract from other source (Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Iran and so on) You cannot just dump these contract and switch to Russian oil and gas completely, on the other hand, would India and China willing to go along the EU road to solely depends on Russian energy seeing how EU make a mess out of this, that is another question.

Second of all, Russia will be heavily discounting those energy product in order to sell it to China and India. Sure, right now oil and gas price is high so that loss is not really showing, but what if oil go down to $90 a barrel? You cannot expect Brent crude will forever be $120 a barrel, it *WILL* come down, and what happen then? conventional estimate Russia is giving upward to 40% discount for China and Indian oil account, they won't be able to make any money if Brent Crude price go back down, which eventually US and OPEC will ramp up production and the logistic issue is going to be solved and price will come down. 

Finally, would China and India willing to take off what EU and US left off? You are talking about a large amount of oil and gas (hundred of billions of dollars) on a yoy basis and the requirement are there, but it is not going to be the same demand used to be from EU. Setting aside whether or not China or India will ditch alternative market and solely import Russian energy product. You only buy something as long as you need it, and when oil and gas start flooding Chinese and India market, that appetite would probably last for a few year and will be lost once the need is satisfy and also stock with sizable strategic reserve, anything more than that is just waste, just because Russia have cheap oil and gas to sell does not mean China and India are going to buy it. 

So in this situation, EU will be in underhand for a short run, but Russia is worse off in a long run. And I just don't see how EU or China/India would depends solely on Russian energy product ever again. Which mean Russia will turn into Venezuela 2.0.

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## SalarHaqq

TNT said:


> Didn't u scumbags claim to be champions of freedom of speech? Why u dont like free speech anymore? U r the scumbag who proudly talks about killing women and children, maybe we should report that to german authorities.



Thing is, if my input qualifies as an offense to German or EU authorities, then this user's posts will definitely meet the criteria to a much greater extent.

Knowing that the user, under their former and current aliases, has:

* Disparaged groups of people based on their sole "ethno"-national backgrounds. This is a case of so-called "Volksverhetzung" (incitement to racial hatred) according to German criminal law, and it carries heavily penalties.

* In the same vein, exalted western "supremacy" over other cultures, peoples, nations.

* Advocated war of extermination against Russians, with reduction of the Russian population mentioned as an explicit goal per se.

* Declared that they have personally incited physical violence against immigrants in Italy.

* Been apologetic towards policies they characterized as resulting in large scale starvation of Indians.

* Told another forum user they would consider the latter's death a price they'd be "willing to pay" in order to "live free".

* Glorified the murder of women and children, as well as justifying the killing of civilians more generally.

* Indicated that they would have personally taken part in certain operations known to have included a terrorist bombing against ordinary European civilians.

* Referred to themself as a "psychopath" and bragged about how a "friend" collected a body part of a dead Russian, compounding the suspicion that they may represent a threat to public safety.

So frankly, user "Apollon" would be well advised not to try and report another member of Pakistan Defence Forum to state authorities of any kind, given the vast amounts of legally attackable material they themself posted on the very same forum. Just saying.

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Denmark lost Schleswig-Holstein to Germany in Denmark Germany war. Why don't you take that back?


You mean Denmark lost to Prussia and Austria, in this war you most probably have zero knowlegde about. FYI the northern part of Schleswig reunited with Denmark in 1920, the southern part voted for Germany.


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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> "Fascist"?



Russia under putin is classified facist in Germany and rated as such

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## ZeGerman

So how is Lavrovs multipolar world supposed to work.

You had several blocks
1. USA
2. China
3. EU
4. Russia

With EU weaning itself from American influence/control.
Russia gaining from being able to trade with both east and west, and become a silkroute hub.


Now thanks to russias attempt to annex ukraine…eu is weakened and more reliant on usa again.
Russia is also damaged, and loses its trade with their biggest customer. Now simply becoming Chinas cheap source of resources…fully its junior “partner” now.


The 2 already slightly weaker blocks got weakened further in favor of the two superpowers


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## Apollon

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539103787058663424

@jamahir @Foinikas

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## jhungary

MeFishToo said:


> You mean Denmark lost to Prussia and Austria, in this war you most probably have zero knowlegde about. FYI the northern part of Schleswig reunited with Denmark in 1920, the southern part voted for Germany.


I have NEVER EVER heard of someone referring to Second Schleswig War as Denmark Germany war..........The only Denmark Germany war in the last 200 years was when Nazi Germany invaded and occupied Denmark on August 9, 1940...

If that dude have a computer and wikipedia, he probably know which war he should have been referring to, it's not a big ask to look up some history before comment on stuff like that, hell you can even watch the DR production of 1864 before you comment and you still wouldn't made that mistake.

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539103787058663424
> 
> @jamahir @Foinikas



No context in the vid. What is this famine ?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

SalarHaqq said:


> Thing is, if my input qualifies as an offense to German or EU authorities, then this user's posts will definitely meet the criteria to a far higher degree.
> 
> Knowing that the user, under their former and current aliases, has:
> 
> * Disparaged groups of people based on their sole "ethno"-national backgrounds. This is a case of so-called "Volksverhetzung" (incitement to racial hatred) according to German criminal law, and it carries heavily penalties.
> 
> * In the same vein, exalted western "supremacy" over other cultures, peoples, nations.
> 
> * Advocated war of extermination against Russians, with reduction of the Russian population mentioned as an explicit goal per se.
> 
> * Declared that they have personally incited physical violence against immigrants in Italy.
> 
> * Been apologetic towards policies they characterized as resulting in large scale starvation of Indians.
> 
> * Told another forum user they would consider the latter's death a price they'd be "willing to pay" in order to "live free".
> 
> * Glorified the murder of women and children, as well as justifying the killing of civilians more generally.
> 
> * Indicated that they would have personally taken part in certain operations known to have included a terrorist bombing against ordinary European civilians.
> 
> * Referred to themself as a "psychopath" and bragged about how a "friend" collected a body part of a dead Russian, compounding the suspicion that they may represent a threat to public security.
> 
> So frankly, user "Apollon" would be well advised not to try and report another member of Pakistan Defence Forum to state authorities of any kind, given the vast amounts of legally attackable material they themself posted on the very same forum. Just saying.



Apollon should be reported; however, I doubt he lives in Germany. My understanding of German laws is they don't tolerate the kind of dangerous rhetoric that he posts in pdf. So my advice to anyone in this forum who is living in Germany or EU is, report the user that goes by Apollon. 

There is no way that what he states in this forum can fit the definition of "free speech" in EU. In America, he may have got away with it; but in EU, the laws when it comes to hate speech and incitement to violence are very clear.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539162755156307969

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## Viet

ZeGerman said:


> So how is Lavrovs multipolar world supposed to work.
> 
> You had several blocks
> 1. USA
> 2. China
> 3. EU
> 4. Russia
> 
> With EU weaning itself from American influence/control.
> Russia gaining from being able to trade with both east and west, and become a silkroute hub.
> 
> 
> Now thanks to russias attempt to annex ukraine…eu is weakened and more reliant on usa again.
> Russia is also damaged, and loses its trade with their biggest customer. Now simply becoming Chinas cheap source of resources…fully its junior “partner” now.
> 
> 
> The 2 already slightly weaker blocks got weakened further in favor of the two superpowers


Correction

Russia is an individual country not a bloc.
China is not a bloc, either.
EU is a bloc, an alliance of nations.
US is the sole superpower can be seen as super bloc.
Russia is basically a poor, primitive, less developed, authoritarian country.
China calls itself as largest developing country.

Lavrov himself is just a liar. Not a bloc.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

ZeGerman said:


> So how is Lavrovs multipolar world supposed to work.
> 
> You had several blocks
> 1. USA
> 2. China
> 3. EU
> 4. Russia
> 
> With EU weaning itself from American influence/control.
> Russia gaining from being able to trade with both east and west, and become a silkroute hub.
> 
> 
> Now thanks to russias attempt to annex ukraine…eu is weakened and more reliant on usa again.
> Russia is also damaged, and loses its trade with their biggest customer. Now simply becoming Chinas cheap source of resources…fully its junior “partner” now.
> 
> 
> The 2 already slightly weaker blocks got weakened further in favor of the two superpowers



EU could've chosen to be neutral in the Russia - Ukraine conflict, that way they wouldn't get weakened. Instead, the EU has chosen to align itself with Ukraine and the main power behind the Ukrainian regime - whose idiotic leadership provoked the Russian bear. So instead of blaming Russia, look at the impotency of EU leaders who failed to stand up to US/UK agenda in this conflict.

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## jamahir

ZeGerman said:


> With EU weaning itself from American influence/control.



What !



Viet said:


> US is the sole superpower can be seen as super bloc.
> Russia is basically a poor, primitive, less developed, authoritarian country.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538997286033833984

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## Hassan Al-Somal

TruthSeeker said:


> RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 20​Jun 20, 2022 - Press ISW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Download the PDF
> *Karolina Hird, Kateryna Stepanenko, and Frederick W. Kagan
> June 20, 5:30 pm ET*​*Click here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
> Ukrainian officials are emphasizing that the coming week will be decisive for Russian efforts to take control of Severodonetsk.[1] *Deputy Ukrainian Defense Minister Hanna Malyar reported that Russian leadership has set June 26 as the deadline for Russian forces to reach the Luhansk Oblast administrative border, which will likely result in intensified efforts to take full control of Severodonetsk and move westward towards the Oblast border.[2] Head of the Luhansk Regional State Administration Serhiy Haidai reported that Russian forces control all of Severodonetsk except for the industrial zone as of June 20, which is the first explicit Ukrainian confirmation that Russian forces control all of Severodonetsk with the exception of the Azot plant.[3] Russian forces will likely continue efforts to clear the Azot plant and complete encirclement operations south of Severodonetsk and Lysychansk by driving up the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway.
> *Russian authorities likely seek to leverage the consequences of Russia’s blockade on Ukrainian grain exports in order to cajole the West into weakening its sanctions. *Head of state-owned propaganda outlet _RT_ Margarita Simonyan stated on June 20 that the famine caused by Russia’s blockade on grain exports will force the rest of the world to lift sanctions in order to curb further effects of global famine.[4] Simonyan’s statement is especially salient considering a report by the UK’s Foreign, Commonwealth, and Development Office that Ukraine had generated 12% of global wheat and barley exports and that Russia’s blockade has trapped over 20 million tons of grain in storage.[5]
> *The UK Ministry of Defense claimed on June 20 that consistent failures of the Russian air force have significantly contributed to Russia’s limited success in Ukraine.[6] *The UK MoD emphasized that the Russian air force has continually underperformed and been largely risk-averse, failing to establish air superiority or give Russian forces a decisive advantage in Ukraine. The report additionally claimed that training procedures for air force personnel are scripted and designed to impress senior officials but do not adequately prepare personnel for the challenges of active air combat.
> *Key Takeaways*
> 
> *Ukrainian sources stated that the coming week will be decisive for Russian forces to complete the capture of Severodonetsk and that Russian forces will focus troops and equipment on the area.*
> *Ukrainian sources confirmed that Russian forces control all of Severodonetsk with the exception of the Azot industrial zone, where fights are ongoing.*
> *Russian sources are likely setting information conditions to justify slow and unsuccessful advances towards Slovyansk from the southeast of Izyum and west of Lyman.*
> *Russian forces are likely intensifying operations to interdict Ukrainian lines of communication along the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway in order to support escalating operations in Severodonetsk-Lysychansk.*
> *Russian forces continued to focus on resisting further Ukrainian advances north of Kharkiv City towards the international border.*
> *Russian forces are continuing defensive operations along the Southern Axis.*
> *Ukrainian partisan activity is continuing to complicate efforts by Russian occupation authorities to consolidate control of occupied areas.*
> *
> 
> *
> *We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*
> 
> Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
> Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
> Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City;
> Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis;
> Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
> *Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
> Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
> Ukrainian sources confirmed that Russian forces control all of Severodonetsk except for the Azot chemical plant, where fights are ongoing on June 20. Head of the Luhansk Oblast Administration Serhiy Haidai stated that Ukrainian troops “only control the Azot plant” and that Russian troops are fighting within the industrial zone.[7] Haidai additionally confirmed that Russian forces took control of the southeastern suburb of Metolkine, but claimed that the remaining Ukrainian forces in Severodonetsk are still not completely encircled.[8] Deputy Ukrainian Defense Minister Hanna Malyar stated that the coming week will be decisive for Russian forces to complete the capture of Severodonetsk and that Russian leadership has set June 26 as the deadline for Russian forces to reach the Luhansk Oblast administrative borders.[9] Russian forces are accumulating equipment around Toshkivka, which is still highly-contested territory, and are drawing equipment into Starobilsk (approximately 40km northeast of Severodonetsk in Russian-occupied Luhansk Oblast) to support operations in Severodonetsk from the east.[10] Russian forces will likely continue to funnel troops and equipment into Severodonetsk to complete the capture of the industrial zone in the coming week.
> 
> 
> 
> Russian forces focused on maintaining positions to the southeast of Izyum and west of Lyman but did not make any confirmed advances towards Slovyansk on June 20.[11] Russian forces reportedly conducted an unsuccessful assault on Bohorodychne, about 20 kilometers northwest of Slovyansk.[12] Russian Telegram channel “Military chronicle” notably claimed that Ukrainian positions around Slovyansk are highly fortified and on “dominant heights,” which likely is an attempt to set information conditions to justify slow, grinding, and largely unsuccessful Russian advances towards Slovyansk.[13] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian troops around Lyman are conducting continual airstrikes and attempting to prevent Ukrainian forces from regrouping in this area.[14] Russian forces remain unlikely to advance on Slovyansk as they concentrate resources on completing the capture of Severodonetsk and the rest of Luhansk Oblast.
> Russian forces continued efforts to interdict Ukrainian lines of communication east of Bakhmut along the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway but did not make any confirmed advances on June 20.[15] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian sabotage groups near Bakhmut conducted an unsuccessful assault on Mykolaivka, which is a settlement directly along the T1302 highway.[16] Chechen troops additionally continued efforts to take control of Zolote to further support efforts to interdict Ukrainian lines of communication along the T1302.[17] Ukrainian officials have stated that the coming week will be decisive for the Russian offensive on Severodonetsk and Lysychansk, and Russian troops will likely further intensify artillery attacks east of Bakhmut along the T1302 in order to set conditions for an offensive northward to support the encirclement of Ukrainian troops in Severodonetsk-Lysychansk from the south.[18]
> 
> 
> 
> *Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
> Russian forces north of Kharkiv City continued to focus on preventing further Ukrainian advances towards the international border on June 20.[19] Deputy Ukrainian Defense Minister Hanna Malyar claimed that Ukrainian troops have nearly reached the Russian border in Kharkiv Oblast and that Ukrainian forces still have some territory to liberate north of Kharkiv City.[20] While ISW cannot independently confirm the positions of Ukrainian troops near the Russian border, Ukrainian counteroffensive operations in this area will likely continue to pressure Russian troops to fight for control of occupied frontiers and intensify artillery attacks against Ukrainian positions around Kharkiv City.[21] Russian forces additionally conducted artillery attacks and unsuccessful reconnaissance-in-force southeast of Kharkiv City, likely in response to Ukrainian counteroffensive actions southeast of Kharkiv City heading towards the Izyum area.[22]
> 
> 
> 
> *Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
> Russian forces focused on defensive operations and fired on Ukrainian positions along the Southern Axis on June 20.[23] Russian forces intensified artillery strikes on the Mykolaiv-Kherson Oblast border, likely in response to recent Ukrainian counterattacks along the border south of Davydiv Brid and just north of Kherson City.[24] Ukraine’s Zaporizhia Oblast Military Administration stated that Russian forces are continuing to move equipment northwards towards the Vasylivka district (approximately 40 kilometers south of Zaporizhia City) in order to fortify and defend occupied positions in western Zaporizhia Oblast.[25] Commander of the Azov Regiment Rodion Kudryshov notably claimed that Ukrainian forces in Zaporizhia have moved from defensive to offensive positions, which is consistent with reporting that Russian troops are concentrating forces and equipment in Zaporizhia Oblast to prepare for potential Ukrainian counteroffensives.[26] Russian forces are reportedly engaging in continual counter-battery operations along the E105 (also known as the M18) highway that runs through Vasylivka south of Zaporizhia City.[27] Russian forces continued missile and artillery strikes against various areas of Kherson, Zaporizhia, Dnipropetrovsk, Mykolaiv, and Odesa Oblasts.[28]
> 
> 
> 
> *Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
> Russian authorities continued to struggle with consolidating control of occupied territories in the face of persistent Ukrainian partisan pressure. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported on June 20 that mass partisan activity in occupied territories is preventing Russian authorities from being able to present public support for the accession of these areas to Russia.[29] The Ukrainian Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) similarly claimed that Russian authorities in Berdyansk are faking queues for Russian passports at local administrative centers in order to fabricate a false façade of public desire for Russian citizenship.[30] The GUR additionally reported that Russian occupation authorities in Starobilsk, Luhansk Oblast, are coercing people into collective farming schemes and forcing those who work in these schemes into taking Russian citizenship.[31] Ukrainian partisan activity is likely having administrative consequences on Russian efforts to institute Russian citizenship processes_ en masse_ within occupied territories.




Who runs the ISW? No one should fall for the nonsense written by the Neocons who have the blood of millions of Iraqis, Afghans, Libyans, Syrians, Somalis, Yemenis, others and now the Russians and Ukrainians in their hands. It is this evil group of people and their financial elite backers who are engineering one conflict after another. You hear about the deep state, these are some of the public faces they put out there. 👇

*



*

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## ZeGerman

jamahir said:


> What !


Ehmm, from opposition to american wars, to lowered public opinion, to geopolitical moves such as the nordstream 2.0 despite heavy american pressure, to sanctions against eachother. Sitting well below 2% spending for nato.
Silk trade route, joining chinas alternative who plans.

America being all to happy to push for brexit.
Spying on Merkel.

I know for some you like to pile us into one “west/white” blob but there are differences here.

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## Paul2

Russian general strategy seems to be to basically stall the fight now, and control their casualty rate. They plan on waiting until the West gives up.

Russian R&R only bring very low quality troops, but they don't really care.

As I said before, Russian will have no problem to keep sending 2 new battalions once in 2-3 weeks equipped only with civilian trucks, small arms, and mortars almost indefinitely.

Ukraine's higher troop numbers only somehow worked when they tried an Izyum cutoff. Russians stalled them using disposable DPR/LNR, and "volunteer" troops, which took huge casualties, but did their job. Even there, the lack of heavy weapons proved critical. If Ukraine had just a bit more of airforce to use, they could've easily smashed Russian hardpoints there with those Soviet 1.5 ton bombs.

In other words Russia trades their inexhaustible low quality troops for scarce Ukrainian high quality troops.

Since Russian now have a recipe to stall these dramatic offenses, Ukraine needs a dual track plan: finding a strategy to win in attrition warfare, and making new dramatic offensives possible.

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## jamahir

ZeGerman said:


> Ehmm, from opposition to american wars



The last opposition was in 2003 in context of Iraq, by German government leader Gerhard Schroder and French president Jacques Chirac. The latter is dead and the former is about to face political, social and socio-economic sanctions brought by pro-NATO groups in Germany including the government.



ZeGerman said:


> to geopolitical moves such as the nordstream 2.0 despite heavy american pressure



Nordstream I know only that it is an oil or gas pipeline from Russia to Germany ( or some of Europe ? ) but I know that German government is not sanctioning the current gas pipeline from Russia because if Russia turns it off then Germany ( include our voluble and volatile friend @Apollon ) is going to face daily living trouble.



ZeGerman said:


> to sanctions against eachother.



??



ZeGerman said:


> I know for some you like to pile us into one “west/white” blob but there are differences here.



Putin is White as was Che Guevara. Not equating the two of course.

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## RoadAmerica

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Putin says the war ends the day the Kiev regime stops shelling Donbas children. Donbas declared secession from Ukraine following Euro Maidan. The Kiev regime been shelling Donbas children since 2014.


Putin doesn’t decide the future of Ukraine, he’s used the same playbook in Georgia.
Unlike most I can follow history.



Corax said:


> Russian ATGMs, captured NATO supplied ATGMs, KA-52s, Mi-28 Havocs, Mi-35s, Russian tanks...a lot more options than the Ukrainian Nazis.
> 
> 
> 
> Chechens sure know how to kill those Uki Nazis like rats...never seen bodies fly up in the air like that before.


Did you forget they don’t have air superiority? I mean this is really looking like a special Ed operation



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539002898163462145


🤣 giving out medals while the special Ed operation isn’t even close to being done.
What’s next declaring mission accomplished lol



Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539039493050843137
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539022986791071745
> 
> 
> Well, if the Kiev regime didn't want to lose Donbas, then they shouldn't have ousted Yanukovych who was from Donbas. Did the Kiev regime think they can trash Yanukovych and expect Donbas to suck it up?


Huh, do you just type without thinking. Your logic is trash and contradict your own argument


----------



## RoadAmerica

MH.Yang said:


> I agree that the Biden administration's interest rate hike is likely to trigger an economic crisis in the world, not just in the USA. However, as the factory of the world, China has been the least affected country in all previous economic crises. And the Bank of China is already cutting interest rates to prepare in advance for the risks of the economic crisis.
> In 2008, it was Obama who begged for help from China that saved the USA from the economic crisis. You'd better pray that China, the last bastion of the world economy, will not be defeated by the economic crisis. If so, at least we will save the USA again. Otherwise, you should not expect the USA to recover as quickly as in 2008.


China didn’t save anything you have no concept of the world economy and it shows so please stop saying China will be fine because they’re a manufacturing hub, in case you haven’t followed current events lots of those foreign companies have left.
And please don’t say China doesn’t need them, without the west China wouldn’t have the tech they love to steal.


----------



## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Russian general strategy seems to be to basically stall the fight now, and control their casualty rate. They plan on waiting until the West gives up.
> 
> Russian R&R only bring very low quality troops, but they don't really care.
> 
> As I said before, Russian will have no problem to keep sending 2 new battalions once in 2-3 weeks equipped only with civilian trucks, small arms, and mortars almost indefinitely.
> 
> Ukraine's higher troop numbers only somehow worked when they tried an Izyum cutoff. Russians stalled them using disposable DPR/LNR, and "volunteer" troops, which took huge casualties, but did their job. Even there, the lack of heavy weapons proved critical. If Ukraine had just a bit more of airforce to use, they could've easily smashed Russian hardpoints there with those Soviet 1.5 ton bombs.
> 
> In other words Russia trades their inexhaustible low quality troops for scarce Ukrainian high quality troops.
> 
> Since Russian now have a recipe to stall these dramatic offenses, Ukraine needs a dual track plan: finding a strategy to win in attrition warfare, and making new dramatic offensives possible.


As I said before, Ukraine for one way or another did not put in their best trop in theatre.

There are 4 veteran brigade in the East. 3 of them are now south of Kharkiv (1st Tank Brigade, 93rd Mech brigade and 95th Air Assault) Only 53rd are fighting in the East along with 81st Airborne Brigade (both were formed in 2014) are fighting in or around the area have some combat experience post 2014 fighting the static trench line in Donbas. 

On the other hand, you can see Russian supplies being squeeze in the East, most likely from North West where the Ukrainian are mounting a counter attack near the Russian border, considering Russia have consolidate their entire effort in the recent weeks and stepping up with bombing and airstrike. But they till progress really slow in the region.

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> As I said before, Ukraine for one way or another did not put in their best trop in theatre.
> 
> There are 4 veteran brigade in the East. 3 of them are now south of Kharkiv (1st Tank Brigade, 93rd Mech brigade and 95th Air Assault) Only 53rd are fighting in the East along with 81st Airborne Brigade (both were formed in 2014) are fighting in or around the area have some combat experience post 2014 fighting the static trench line in Donbas.
> 
> On the other hand, you can see Russian supplies being squeeze in the East, most likely from North West where the Ukrainian are mounting a counter attack near the Russian border, considering Russia have consolidate their entire effort in the recent weeks and stepping up with bombing and airstrike. But they till progress really slow in the region.



I know, but even without that, Ukraine puts to fight:

People with recent conscription service
Very motivated volunteer battalions
People with past battle experience
People in their prime physical shape
Whom Russia sends forward today to die:

Middle aged men
Men with no military training at all, or just few weeks of it
Completely hopeless DPR/LPR slaves
Mercenaries
Conscripts gangpresseded into signing the contact
You don't need to be a Westpoint grad to realise this is a very bad trade

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## jamahir

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538944255640625152



"Russian fascist forces".  



Paul2 said:


> I know, but even without that, Ukraine puts to fight:
> 
> People with recent conscription service
> Very motivated volunteer battalions
> People with past battle experience
> People in their prime physical shape
> Whom Russia sends forward today to die:
> 
> Middle aged men
> Men with no military training at all, or just few weeks of it
> Completely hopeless DPR/LNR slaves
> Mercenaries
> Conscripts gangpresseded into signing the contact
> You don't need to be a Westpoint grad to realise this is a very bad trade



"Westpoint grad" ? You are such a wannabe.

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## Paul2

jamahir said:


> "Russian fascist forces".
> 
> 
> 
> "Westpoint grad" ? You are such a wannabe.


Are you a communist?


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## jamahir

Paul2 said:


> Are you a communist?



Yes indeed.

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## Corax

RoadAmerica said:


> Putin doesn’t decide the future of Ukraine, he’s used the same playbook in Georgia.
> Unlike most I can follow history.
> 
> 
> Did you forget they don’t have air superiority? I mean this is really looking like a special Ed operation
> 
> 
> 🤣 giving out medals while the special Ed operation isn’t even close to being done.
> What’s next declaring mission accomplished lol
> 
> 
> Huh, do you just type without thinking. Your logic is trash and contradict your own argument



They don't have air superiority ...but neither does Ukriane...have you forgotten that? And the Russians may not have complete air dominance, but they have enough control over the skies to keep pounding and deteriorating the Uki Nazis.

You can keep pumping the Uki Nazis with ATGMs, but unless you give them non-Soviet major equipment, such as tanks and aircraft, it won't make much difference. Former Eastern bloc countries have been offloading their Soviet era junk to the Uki Nazis, but most of that has probably already been destroyed given the number of losses the Uki Nazis have admitted to. There's a finite supply of that former Soviet junk that can be given to the Ukies. In contrast, the Russians have their entire military-industrial complex to provide a near limitless supply of ammunition and equipment, regardless of its quality.

And that's what you rednecks can't seem to understand. Your senile president Bidet is too chicken shit to attack Russia or supply any major defence equipment, and he can't transition the Uki Nazis to use major US equipment quick enough. The few HIMARS and M777s are token gestures and not enough. The Uki Nazis need their entire armed forces equipped with Abrams, Apaches, Cobras, F-16s etc with a limitless supply of ammo...and that just ain't gonna happen in anyone's wet dream from NATO. All you can do is prolong the conflict, inflict as much pain on the Russians, and kill as many Uki Nazis in the process. Still, provide for good entertainment.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Zala drone guides destruction of M777 howitzer


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539207135803875328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539210396753612800

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## Corax

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Zala drone guides destruction of M777 howitzer
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539207135803875328
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539210396753612800



Great, another M777 bites the dust along with Uki Nazis...keep them coming!

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ossetian corps joins Donbas revoluion war to smash the Kiev regime which terrorizes the children of Donbas


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539194128210214913


Corax said:


> Great, another M777 bites the dust along with Uki Nazis...keep them coming!



Mi-28NM Super Havoc attack choppers can easily blow up M777 using NLOS missiles.






Meet Mi-28NM Super Havoc. World's first attack chopper armed with NLOS missiles.


@White and Green with M/S @F-22Raptor @Oldman1 @UKBengali @gambit @Ich @jamahir @jamal18 @Hack-Hook @Vergennes @Song Hong @Ali_Baba @bobo6661 @KAL-EL @thetutle @925boy @FuturePAF @mazeto @CAPRICORN-88 @sammuel @Wood @nang2 @Messerschmitt @mmr @Philip the Arab @Apollon @Philip the Arab @Hassan...



defence.pk

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539211543765975040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539214626113609730

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539211543765975040

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539204590238932993

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> I know, but even without that, Ukraine puts to fight:
> 
> People with recent conscription service
> Very motivated volunteer battalions
> People with past battle experience
> People in their prime physical shape
> Whom Russia sends forward today to die:
> 
> Middle aged men
> Men with no military training at all, or just few weeks of it
> Completely hopeless DPR/LNR slaves
> Mercenaries
> Conscripts gangpresseded into signing the contact
> You don't need to be a Westpoint grad to realise this is a very bad trade


As far as I know, most of the people grinding away is Territorial Defence Battalion. Or National Guard Brigade. The core of Ukrainian Military that are up for the job is around 70000 men, majority of those were in or around Kyiv and only the 3 Brigade I mentioned is in the East, and they are at the rear.

Most of the Ukrainian recruit were trained by people like me for 6 weeks and pressed into Frontline Service (I know a lot of the people I trained ended up in that area), is this a fair trade? Nope, but it was not as bad or as degrading to Ukrainian combat power than you think. Problem is, what I can see is both side cannot sustain the loss rate they are suffering, and in a long haul if it was me, as I stated many time, I would just pull back and let Russian have Sieverodonetsk and defend the good side of the river, the fact that Ukrainian Military themselves fed these people into a grinder just got me scratching my head, I mean, unless there are some outside objective, I don't understand why they pull the combat ready brigade out of the line and fed TDF into a grinder with Russian in Sieverodonetsk, an objective Ukrainian do not needed or should not want to defend. If I am a betting man, this got the hallmark of Stalingrad, the Ukrainian is up to something.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539225560588734466
Ukraine has received the PZH 2000

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539195469955481601

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539195476309860352


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539237092311584774

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539237184930193408


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Yes indeed.



You know what i dont understand is, how a selfproclaimed communist supports a neo feudal state like russia, where a small elite wants to rob its peasants all chances of development. Crazy

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539236651557437441


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> As far as I know, most of the people grinding away is Territorial Defence Battalion. Or National Guard Brigade. The core of Ukrainian Military that are up for the job is around 70000 men, majority of those were in or around Kyiv and only the 3 Brigade I mentioned is in the East, and they are at the rear.
> 
> Most of the Ukrainian recruit were trained by people like me for 6 weeks and pressed into Frontline Service (I know a lot of the people I trained ended up in that area), is this a fair trade? Nope, but it was not as bad or as degrading to Ukrainian combat power than you think. Problem is, what I can see is both side cannot sustain the loss rate they are suffering, and in a long haul if it was me, as I stated many time, I would just pull back and let Russian have Sieverodonetsk and defend the good side of the river, the fact that Ukrainian Military themselves fed these people into a grinder just got me scratching my head, I mean, unless there are some outside objective, I don't understand why they pull the combat ready brigade out of the line and fed TDF into a grinder with Russian in Sieverodonetsk, an objective Ukrainian do not needed or should not want to defend. If I am a betting man, this got the hallmark of Stalingrad, the Ukrainian is up to something.



Territorial Defense is sort of like Assad's NDF National Defense Force. They are loyal to the government but poorly trained and poorly equipped and suffer tremendous casualties.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539236651557437441



These fuel gazzlers are a drag on the Kiev regime which has severe fuel shortage due to Russia repeatedly bombing the Kiev regime's one and only oil refinery and the Kiev regime's fuel depots.

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## SalarHaqq

A.P. Richelieu said:


> While there is plenty of trash in this forum from him, and many others,
> I believe Apollon simply informed the member that Germany does not have full freedom of speech, and that certain ”speech” is prosecutable if the member who lives in Europe happens to travel to Germany.
> So it is advise, more than a threat.
> 
> I might have read another post, of course,
> 
> Meanwhile, our Somalian friend who reported Apollon has at least 4 times published photos of dead Ukrainan soldiers, gloating about it.
> Reported and posts removed, but no sign of a ban.
> His continuous calling Ukrainans == Nazis is distasteful.
> I would ask him to edit all old posts and remove such references.



1) Moderator LeGenD instituted an exemption to that rule, provided that a spoiler is added.

2) Plenty of pro-Ukrainian users posted multiple of pictures of dead Russians. The double standards and selective indignation of the quoted member are blatant.

3) I wasn't "advised" but, for all practical purposes, threatened by user "Apollon". And I pointed to the fact that this person themself have often transgressed the limits to freedom of speech as defined by German law, as they will certainly find out if they bring this website to the attention of German law enforcement.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539179939534102528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539180050079223808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539179306336890881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539179305481142278

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## SalarHaqq

jamahir said:


> SalarHaqq, he may indeed report you to his atrocious government departments so you should engage with the sane members of European society - progressive groups. But I don't know about the longevity of such progressive groups because yesterday I told Apollon about how the pro-Russia former chancellor of Germany, Gerhard Schroder, almost had a ban against him speaking publicly about Ukraine in Germany and this was in 2014 ! And two pro-NATO German parties CDU and CSU want EU to impose sanctions on Gerhard much like how Apollon wants EU to impose social and socio-economic sanctions on you which can be various things - loss of internet access, removal from employment, loss of bank account etc against you and your family if you have them there and any friend or colleague of yours sympathetic to you. This is plain terrorism which NATO proudly excels at for the 74 years of its existence.



Nothing the user can do other than massively shooting themself in the foot, given all the well visible things they have posted here. This I can guarantee.

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## _Nabil_

SalarHaqq said:


> they will certainly find out if they bring this website to the attention of German law enforcement.


Perfectly spotted @SalarHaqq, add some Indians living in EU reporting this Forum and you can say bye bye to PDF

Is there a Captain on the boat ????

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## Corax

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539179939534102528
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539180050079223808
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539179306336890881
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539179305481142278



Interesting to see the Russians upping their game and using their air assets to a greater extent, especially the Su-34s with PGM...so much for all the claims about them not having air superiority!

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Corax said:


> Interesting to see the Russians upping their game and using their air assets to a greater extent, especially the Su-34s with PGM...so much for all the claims about them not having air superiority!



Su-34 can strike from Russian air space. They don't need air superiority as long as the Kiev regime does not dare to take the fight to Russia.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539180353948106753

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539184644859604992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539198443792506880


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## Apollon

Corax said:


> Interesting to see the Russians upping their game and using their air assets to a greater extent, especially the Su-34s with PGM...so much for all the claims about them not having air superiority!



Russia has no air superiority even in their own territory. Ukraine sends Helicopters who blast oil and weapon depots inside russia on regular base


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> Russia has no air superiority even in their own territory. Ukraine sends Helicopters who blast oil and weapon depots inside russia on regular base



Even Qaeda took down NYC twin towers. Kiev regime's attack on Russian soil pales in comparison.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539253660114472962


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539249074133688320

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539216392125390849

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> As far as I know, most of the people grinding away is Territorial Defence Battalion. Or National Guard Brigade. The core of Ukrainian Military that are up for the job is around 70000 men, majority of those were in or around Kyiv and only the 3 Brigade I mentioned is in the East, and they are at the rear.
> 
> Most of the Ukrainian recruit were trained by people like me for 6 weeks and pressed into Frontline Service (I know a lot of the people I trained ended up in that area), is this a fair trade? Nope, but it was not as bad or as degrading to Ukrainian combat power than you think. Problem is, what I can see is both side cannot sustain the loss rate they are suffering, and in a long haul if it was me, as I stated many time, I would just pull back and let Russian have Sieverodonetsk and defend the good side of the river, the fact that Ukrainian Military themselves fed these people into a grinder just got me scratching my head, I mean, unless there are some outside objective, I don't understand why they pull the combat ready brigade out of the line and fed TDF into a grinder with Russian in Sieverodonetsk, an objective Ukrainian do not needed or should not want to defend. If I am a betting man, this got the hallmark of Stalingrad, the Ukrainian is up to something.



It's not only Severo, but Izyum forest, and Popasna sector.

As I understand now, Kherson is a kind of diversion more than a genuine counterattack by the amount of forces there. They keep destroying Russian armour with whatever long-range they still have, and just wait for them to send more. Kherson may have a lot of Russian infantry from the start of the war, and previous accounts of relatively small Russian force there are not accurate.

If they really wanted, they still have few dozen soviet TBMs in reserve to take down the bridge with ease. After that, Russians will not be able to do any heavy resupply, nor evac the wounded by land.


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## Corax

Apollon said:


> Russia has no air superiority even in their own territory. Ukraine sends Helicopters who blast oil and weapon depots inside russia on regular base



Using that idiotic logic, no country has air superiority then has it?! I mean how stupid can one person get? How old are you, 12? Go back to smashing plates. I know you desperately want to be a pure blooded north European Aryan master race, but accept the fact that you're a dark featured Mediterranean mongrel of many races.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Paul2 said:


> It's not only Severo, but Izyum forest, and Popasna sector.
> 
> As I understand now, Kherson is a kind of diversion more than a genuine counterattack by the amount of forces there. They keep destroying Russian armour with whatever long-range they still have, and just wait for them to send more. Kherson may have a lot of Russian infantry from the start of the war, and previous accounts of relatively small Russian force there are not accurate.
> 
> If they really wanted, they still have few dozen soviet TBMs in reserve to take down the bridge with ease. After that, Russians will not be able to do any heavy resupply, nor evac the wounded by land.



It's pretty sad eventually 10 million Ukrainian men will be killed and about an equal number of Russian men will be killed but given the fact Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine Russia can afford such heavy losses but Ukraine cannot so eventually Russia should be able to retake Donbas which is called the heart of Russia.

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## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> As far as I know, most of the people grinding away is Territorial Defence Battalion. Or National Guard Brigade. The core of Ukrainian Military that are up for the job is around 70000 men, majority of those were in or around Kyiv and only the 3 Brigade I mentioned is in the East, and they are at the rear.
> 
> Most of the Ukrainian recruit were trained by people like me for 6 weeks and pressed into Frontline Service (I know a lot of the people I trained ended up in that area), is this a fair trade? Nope, but it was not as bad or as degrading to Ukrainian combat power than you think. Problem is, what I can see is both side cannot sustain the loss rate they are suffering, and in a long haul if it was me, as I stated many time, I would just pull back and let Russian have Sieverodonetsk and defend the good side of the river, the fact that Ukrainian Military themselves fed these people into a grinder just got me scratching my head, I mean, unless there are some outside objective, I don't understand why they pull the combat ready brigade out of the line and fed TDF into a grinder with Russian in Sieverodonetsk, an objective Ukrainian do not needed or should not want to defend. If I am a betting man, this got the hallmark of Stalingrad, the Ukrainian is up to something.





Paul2 said:


> It's not only Severo, but Izyum forest, and Popasna sector.
> 
> As I understand now, Kherson is a kind of diversion more than a genuine counterattack by the amount of forces there. They keep destroying Russian armour with whatever long-range they still have, and just wait for them to send more. Kherson may have a lot of Russian infantry from the start of the war, and previous accounts of relatively small Russian force there are not accurate.
> 
> If they really wanted, they still have few dozen soviet TBMs in reserve to take down the bridge with ease. After that, Russians will not be able to do any heavy resupply, nor evac the wounded by land.



Its to grind down Russian offensive capability. The Russians have lost a ton at Severodonetsk, which is ultimately not a strategically important city. Reznikov stated the summer was all about attriting Russian forces. 

The Ukrainians are training at least 200,000 troops now. Manpower is not a problem.

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## Apollon

Corax said:


> Using that idiotic logic, no country has air superiority then has it?! I mean how stupid can one person get? How old are you, 12? Go back to smashing plates. I know you desperately want to be a pure blooded north European Aryan master race, but accept the fact that you're a dark featured Mediterranean mongrel of many races.



1. Ukraine airforce targets russian forces evrywhere. Which means Pussolini has no air superiority.


2. My father is german. My mother greek. My skin doesnt look dark in any way.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> 2. My father is german. My mother greek. My skin doesnt look dark in any way.



German is mainly Hunnic ancestry. In the 400s Huns conquered Germany, slaughtered German men, snatched German women. Greek is mainly Turkish ancestry. Turks conquered Greece, slaughtered Greek men, snatched Greek women.

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## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> Its to grind down Russian offensive capability. The Russians have lost a ton at Severodonetsk, which is ultimately not a strategically important city. Reznikov stated the summer was all about attriting Russian forces.
> 
> The Ukrainians are training at least 200,000 troops now. Manpower is not a problem.



Manpower is not a problem for the Russians either. The Uki Nazis have lost around 30,000 men, around the same as the Russians. But carry on what you're doing, it's fascinating watching the so called "civilised" world behaving so civilised.

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> It's not only Severo, but Izyum forest, and Popasna sector.
> 
> As I understand now, Kherson is a kind of diversion more than a genuine counterattack by the amount of forces there. They keep destroying Russian armour with whatever long-range they still have, and just wait for them to send more. Kherson may have a lot of Russian infantry from the start of the war, and previous accounts of relatively small Russian force there are not accurate.
> 
> If they really wanted, they still have few dozen soviet TBMs in reserve to take down the bridge with ease. After that, Russians will not be able to do any heavy resupply, nor evac the wounded by land.


I meant the entire Eastern Front. I am just using Sieverodonetsk as an example. As I said before, if I was the Russian, I will forget about Sieverodonetsk and flank the Ukrainian from both Lyman or Izyum and Popasna, and I will make Bekhmut my top Priority, because if you took Bekhmut, you don't need to cross the siversky donet river to hook around and envelope the Ukrainian from behind, if that happen, that's game set and match for the Russian.

As far as I see, both side fixated on sieverodonetsk, and I still can't wrap my head on that idea why. Kherson is not at all related in the action in the East, from what I am seeing that is a local counter offensive instead of an organised counter offensive which basically took advantage of Russia from stacking their force in the East. If I have to guess, the main event looks like where the combat ready troop are (South of Kharkiv) which mean they are either going to drive North and try to take Kupisansk, or go East and took back Izyum and Lyman front all the way cut across the Russian offense in the East. But I don't see this happen unless substantial western weapon and a lot more men. As I said, the Ukrainian indulged in defending that town make no tactical and operational sense, that town is 50-60% focal point of the entire Eastern Offensive, and so does putting their best troop in reserve. Something has to be going on and that has to be in that general area.

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## Corax

Apollon said:


> 1. Ukraine airforce targets russian forces evrywhere. Which means Pussolini has no air superiority.
> 
> 
> 2. My father is german. My mother greek. My skin doesnt look dark in any way.



No they don't, the Uki Nazis don't have enough aircraft to operate across the entire country. They use their remaining few surviving aircraft in select places, and they're stupid enough to have shot down a lot of their own planes, which means they have no adequate IFF capability. When you've grown out of nappies, you might learn something.
Prove your skin isn't dark and you don't have black hair and brown eyes.

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## Dustom9

Bhai iski bhi sunlo koi, ye bhi 12 page se gazal suna raha hai. 


jhungary said:


> I meant the entire Eastern Front. I am just using Sieverodonetsk as an example. As I said before, if I was the Russian, I will forget about Sieverodonetsk and flank the Ukrainian from both Lyman or Izyum and Popasna, and I will make Bekhmut my top Priority, because if you took Bekhmut, you don't need to cross the siversky donet river to hook around and envelope the Ukrainian from behind, if that happen, that's game set and match for the Russian.
> 
> As far as I see, both side fixated on sieverodonetsk, and I still can't wrap my head on that idea why. Kherson is not at all related in the action in the East, from what I am seeing that is a local counter offensive instead of an organised counter offensive which basically took advantage of Russia from stacking their force in the East. If I have to guess, the main event looks like where the combat ready troop are (South of Kharkiv) which mean they are either going to drive North and try to take Kupisansk, or go East and took back Izyum and Lyman front all the way cut across the Russian offense in the East. But I don't see this happen unless substantial western weapon and a lot more men. As I said, the Ukrainian indulged in defending that town make no tactical and operational sense, that town is 50-60% focal point of the entire Eastern Offensive, and so does putting their best troop in reserve. Something has to be going on and that has to be in that general area.

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## F-22Raptor

Corax said:


> Manpower is not a problem for the Russians either. The Uki Nazis have lost around 30,000 men, around the same as the Russians. But carry on what you're doing, it's fascinating watching the so called "civilised" world behaving so civilised.




The problem for the Russians is they've already lost a third of their armored force. 40%-50%+ losses by end of year or early next year is possible. Thats not sustainable for them. Their armor losses are huge.

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## Corax

jhungary said:


> I meant the entire Eastern Front. I am just using Sieverodonetsk as an example. As I said before, if I was the Russian, I will forget about Sieverodonetsk and flank the Ukrainian from both Lyman or Izyum and Popasna, and I will make Bekhmut my top Priority, because if you took Bekhmut, you don't need to cross the siversky donet river to hook around and envelope the Ukrainian from behind, if that happen, that's game set and match for the Russian.
> 
> As far as I see, both side fixated on sieverodonetsk, and I still can't wrap my head on that idea why. Kherson is not at all related in the action in the East, from what I am seeing that is a local counter offensive instead of an organised counter offensive which basically took advantage of Russia from stacking their force in the East. If I have to guess, the main event looks like where the combat ready troop are (South of Kharkiv) which mean they are either going to drive North and try to take Kupisansk, or go East and took back Izyum and Lyman front all the way cut across the Russian offense in the East. But I don't see this happen unless substantial western weapon and a lot more men. As I said, the Ukrainian indulged in defending that town make no tactical and operational sense, that town is 50-60% focal point of the entire Eastern Offensive, and so does putting their best troop in reserve. Something has to be going on and that has to be in that general area.



It's astonishing that none of the NAZO fanboys on this forum have any real understanding of the mindsets of the Uki Nazis and the Russians. Both are Slavs, they are willing to destroy each other through shear hatred, and they don't care about the cost. That is why NAZO fuelling the flames of this conflict will not result in a decisive outcome, it will drag on until one side eventually annihilates the other. Sieverodonetsk may not be important for YOU...but it IS important for those who are there willing to slaughter each other. This is something you cannot understand, and you've made the same mistake around the world, from the Middle East to Asia.

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## Apollon

Corax said:


> No they don't, the Uki Nazis don't have enough aircraft to operate across the entire country. They use their remaining few surviving aircraft in select places, and they're stupid enough to have shot down a lot of their own planes, which means they have no adequate IFF capability. When you've grown out of nappies, you might learn something.
> Prove your skin isn't dark and you don't have black hair and brown eyes.



Looks quite white for me 









That said, Ukraine fights for its freedom against Russia. Its that simple, its their war for independence and so far they do great. I admire them as heroes and im proud that we support them

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> Its to grind down Russian offensive capability. The Russians have lost a ton at Severodonetsk, which is ultimately not a strategically important city. Reznikov stated the summer was all about attriting Russian forces.
> 
> The Ukrainians are training at least 200,000 troops now. Manpower is not a problem.


The problem is, in term of attrition warfare, you don't put troop in something not at all important to defend. Because that bleed your own troop as well as your enemy.

If you look at the overall situation, Russia try and failed to break out from Izyum, Lyman and Popasna since May, which is, well, you can say threaten the line of communication between Ukrainian forces in Kramatosk, Sloviansk and that general area. In the army, you were taught not to commit troop on a losing battle, I mean, there are no point to reinforce a failure and Sieverodonetsk is going to fall by all account, so if this was me, I would withdraw to the other side of that river and defend the area when I am facing it instead of in front of it. That way you just need to push back in Bekhmut and Izyum and let the Russian come to you, you have a lot easier job to defend. 

That is not how Ukrainian play tho, they put troop in and grind down the Russian, which trying to take a town that have no strategic importance other than be able to completely taken Luhansk. While the Best Ukrainian force are more or less withdrew from front line and into an R&R period. (Bear in mind 1TB, 93 Mech and 95 Air Assualt were not extensively used in Donbas) which have all the tale-tell hall mark of Battle of Stalingrad. Germany are super fixated on Stalingrad and uses the majority of their troop to make the offence, leaving Romania and Czech troop in defend of the flank. This is just like what this war now, Russian troop are super focus on Sieverodonetsk and leaving LNR and DPR people to protect their flank.) Not saying history is going to repeat, but this is increasingly likely and it look a lot like Starlingrad.

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## Apollon

Corax said:


> It's astonishing that none of the NAZO fanboys on this forum have any real understanding of the mindsets of the Uki Nazis and the Russians. Both are Slavs, they are willing to destroy each other through shear hatred, and they don't care about the cost. That is why NAZO fuelling the flames of this conflict will not result in a decisive outcome, it will drag on until one side eventually annihilates the other. Sieverodonetsk may not be important for YOU...but it IS important for those who are there willing to slaughter each other. This is something you cannot understand, and you've made the same mistake around the world, from the Middle East to Asia.



You are wrong. 


Russia was defeated in history again and again. Japan, Germany, UK, Finland all gave Russia crushing defeats in history. And back then russia had demographics to replace fallen soldiers. Now it has lowest birthrate in the world and cant sustain gigantic losses. It had to adjust its goals multiple times. At first planned to get all of Ukraine. Now tries to at least get 20% of it. As it looks like Ukraine will become EU member aspirant. What we see now is Russia trying to hold its minimum goals

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## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> The problem for the Russians is they've already lost a third of their armored force. 40%-50%+ losses by end of year or early next year is possible. Thats not sustainable for them. Their armor losses are huge.



And how much have the Uki Nazis lost? or are they supermen and immune to bullets? The Russians can't train men and produce equipment? The ex-Soviet bloc European countries have exhausted their Soviet era junk, unless you're willing to pump Ukraine full of NATO equipment, which your senile president Bident can't and won't do, you token gesture numbers of equipment won't make any difference on the ground. With a smaller population and no industrial production base, your Uki Nazi fourth Riech puppets won't win a war of attrition.

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## F-22Raptor

Corax said:


> It's astonishing that none of the NAZO fanboys on this forum have any real understanding of the mindsets of the Uki Nazis and the Russians. Both are Slavs, they are willing to destroy each other through shear hatred, and they don't care about the cost. That is why NAZO fuelling the flames of this conflict will not result in a decisive outcome, it will drag on until one side eventually annihilates the other. Sieverodonetsk may not be important for YOU...but it IS important for those who are there willing to slaughter each other. This is something you cannot understand, and you've made the same mistake around the world, from the Middle East to Asia.




The exhaustion of the Russian military is in US strategic interests. The more they have to scrape the barrel, the better it is for the US and the West. We're more than willing to help the Ukrainians achieve freedom from the Russian Nazis.

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## jhungary

Corax said:


> It's astonishing that none of the NAZO fanboys on this forum have any real understanding of the mindsets of the Uki Nazis and the Russians. Both are Slavs, they are willing to destroy each other through shear hatred, and they don't care about the cost. That is why NAZO fuelling the flames of this conflict will not result in a decisive outcome, it will drag on until one side eventually annihilates the other. Sieverodonetsk may not be important for YOU...but it IS important for those who are there willing to slaughter each other. This is something you cannot understand, and you've made the same mistake around the world, from the Middle East to Asia.


So, your answer is "They are Slavs, and this is what they do"?

Man, I am glad you weren't anywhere near any military.............

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## Corax

Apollon said:


> You are wrong.
> 
> 
> Russia was defeated in history again and again. Japan, Germany, UK, Finland all gave Russia crushing defeats in history. And back then russia had demographics to replace fallen soldiers. Now it has lowest birthrate in the world and cant sustain gigantic losses. It had to adjust its goals multiple times. At first planned to get all of Ukraine. Now tries to at least get 20% of it. As it looks like Ukraine will become EU member aspirant. What we see now is Russia trying to hold its minimum goals



I guess Germany or Greece never lost any war though right?! lol go back to smashing plates. If you genuinely believe birth rates will be a factor in this war, i.e. a multi generational conflict, then say bye bye to your beloved EU.

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## Apollon

Corax said:


> And how much have the Uki Nazis lost? or are they supermen and immune to bullets? The Russians can't train men and produce equipment? The ex-Soviet bloc European countries have exhausted their Soviet era junk, unless you're willing to pump Ukraine full of NATO equipment, which your senile president Bident can't and won't do, you token gesture numbers of equipment won't make any difference on the ground. With a smaller population and no industrial production base, your Uki Nazi fourth Riech puppets won't win a war of attrition.



Germany just today has delivered Panzerhaubitze 2000 the worlds most powerful artillery


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## jhungary

Dustom9 said:


> Bhai iski bhi sunlo koi, ye bhi 12 page se gazal suna raha hai.


Well, better than a sausage pic and tell me that is some Indian Military Academy....It's more like a set of behind the scene from "Macho, Macho man........"


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## Apollon

Corax said:


> I guess Germany or Greece never lost any war though right?! lol go back to smashing plates. If you genuinely believe birth rates will be a factor in this war, i.e. a multi generational conflict, then say bye bye to your beloved EU.



Each dead russian is a family line that ends. 


Its simple math. Old population, low birthrates - incapable to do long wars


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## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> The exhaustion of the Russian military is in US strategic interests. The more they have to scrape the barrel, the better it is for the US and the West. We're more than willing to help the Ukrainians achieve freedom from the Russian Nazis.



Oh absolutely, that's why I WANT you to keep doing what you're doing! It's the best thing that could have ever happened to the rest of the world. The only problem is you're delusional enough to believe the Uki Nazis can win this. They won't, not with the current token amount of military support they're getting. Short of converting the entire Uki Nazi military to NAZO standard equipment, they won't win, and that won't happen. The Russians will eventually take Donbas, and then it will remain as a simmering dispute.


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## F-22Raptor

Corax said:


> And how much have the Uki Nazis lost? or are they supermen and immune to bullets? The Russians can't train men and produce equipment? The ex-Soviet bloc European countries have exhausted their Soviet era junk, unless you're willing to pump Ukraine full of NATO equipment, which your senile president Bident can't and won't do, you token gesture numbers of equipment won't make any difference on the ground. With a smaller population and no industrial production base, your Uki Nazi fourth Riech puppets won't win a war of attrition.



The US has barely supplied the Ukrainians. The US can keep supplying the Ukrainians for YEARS if need be.

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## Corax

jhungary said:


> So, your answer is "They are Slavs, and this is what they do"?
> 
> Man, I am glad you weren't anywhere near any military.............



Yep, in the same way the Afghans do what they do, fight either themselves, or anyone who's stupid enough to invade, or the Arabs and Israelis, they will never live side by side. But carry on, your NAZO is doing the right thing for the rest of the world.



Apollon said:


> Each dead russian is a family line that ends.
> 
> 
> Its simple math. Old population, low birthrates - incapable to do long wars



And what happens to each dead Uki Nazi? Do they magically sprout out from the ground? Are you retarded? Did you get dropped on your head as a child? Most of Uki population has emigrated, their women probably sold off into sexual slavery in Germany and across Europe, and their men are dying like rats in Ukraine.

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## jhungary

Corax said:


> Yep, in the same way the Afghans do what they do, fight either themselves, or anyone who's stupid enough to invade, or the Arabs and Israelis, they will never live side by side. But carry on, your NAZO is doing the right thing for the rest of the world.


I am confused, is Afghan "Slavic" or you are just going to use it on anyone that are not white or Anglo?


----------



## Corax

jhungary said:


> I am confused, is Afghan "Slavic" or you are just going to use it on anyone that are not white or Anglo?



Can you not read? I stated in the same way the Afghans do what they do...read the rest. As for being confused about racial identity...you should know best...what are you this week, a Mongol? You've claimed to be Latin American, Chinese, Australian, American...what else?

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## Apollon

Corax said:


> Oh absolutely, that's why I WANT you to keep doing what you're doing! It's the best thing that could have ever happened to the rest of the world. The only problem is you're delusional enough to believe the Uki Nazis can win this. They won't, not with the current token amount of military support they're getting. Short of converting the entire Uki Nazi military to NAZO standard equipment, they won't win, and that won't happen. The Russians will eventually take Donbas, and then it will remain as a simmering dispute.



In other words, Russia loses Ukraine forever. Glad you admit it.


----------



## jhungary

Corax said:


> Can you not read? I stated in the same way the Afghans do what they do...read the rest. As for being confused about racial identity...you should know best...what are you this week, a Mongol? You've claimed to be Latin American, Chinese, Australian, American...what else?


Well, I always think why you people are always subjugated by others throughout history, now I know why.

As for what I claim to be, you don't have to believe me if you don't, I did not force it on you or have it to proof a point. Oh by the way, American and Australian are largely the same race and have the same racial identity, you effectively count it twice. LOL


----------



## Corax

Apollon said:


> In other words, Russia loses Ukraine forever. Glad you admit it.



They don't want Ukraine, they want Donbas. And who cares?! I couldn't give a rats *** what happens...if "civilised" Europeans want to keep slaughtering each other, all the better for the rest of the world.

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## Apollon

Corax said:


> Yep, in the same way the Afghans do what they do, fight either themselves, or anyone who's stupid enough to invade, or the Arabs and Israelis, they will never live side by side. But carry on, your NAZO is doing the right thing for the rest of the world.
> 
> 
> 
> And what happens to each dead Uki Nazi? Do they magically sprout out from the ground? Are you retarded? Did you get dropped on your head as a child? Most of Uki population has emigrated, their women probably sold off into sexual slavery in Germany and across Europe, and their men are dying like rats in Ukraine.



Russia faces far higher losses and since Pussolini has not installed general mobilisation, Russia starts to run low on cannon food. 


The general rule is, that losses on attacking side are 3-4 times higher than defending side. 



Russia lost flagship, 11 generals.


----------



## Elvin

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539039493050843137
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539022986791071745
> 
> 
> Well, if the Kiev regime didn't want to lose Donbas, then they shouldn't have ousted Yanukovych who was from Donbas. Did the Kiev regime think they can trash Yanukovych and expect Donbas to suck it up?



You mean that Russian PUPPET? Russian speaking population is less than 20% of Ukraine yet you argue that the minority rule over the majority? Take that BS to China and let the Tibetans rule Han.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> The Ukrainians are training at least 200,000 troops now. Manpower is not a problem.



On paper. Not realistic. A country of 35 million people cannot afford such a a big army or else it will collapse.

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## Corax

jhungary said:


> Well, I always think why you people are always subjugated by others throughout history, now I know why.
> 
> As for what I claim to be, you don't have to believe me if you don't, I did not force it on you or have it to proof a point. Oh by the way, American and Australian are largely the same race and have the same racial identity, you effectively count it twice. LOL



I know you desperately want to be part of the Anglo "master race", but no matter how hard you kiss their asses, you won't be part of them

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Elvin said:


> You mean that Russian PUPPET? Russian speaking population is less than 20% of Ukraine yet you argue that the minority rule over the majority? Take that BS to China and let the Tibetans rule Han.



Racist much? Zelensky is Jewish. Jewish is less than 1% of Ukraine's population.

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## Apollon

Tai Hai Chen said:


> On paper. Not realistic. A country of 35 million people cannot afford such a a big army or else it will collapse.



They have full support of EU and USA


----------



## jhungary

Corax said:


> I know you desperately want to be part of the Anglo "master race", but no matter how hard you kiss their asses, you won't be part of them


Who said I want to be part of them? If you think every color people want to be white, then YOU have the insecurity issue, not me.

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## Apollon

Corax said:


> I know you desperately want to be part of the Anglo "master race", but no matter how hard you kiss their asses, you won't be part of them



You admit, that russias goal to take Ukraine has failed and only goal now is Donbass?


----------



## F-22Raptor

Corax said:


> They don't want Ukraine, they want Donbas. And who cares?! I couldn't give a rats *** what happens...if "civilised" Europeans want to keep slaughtering each other, all the better for the rest of the world.



The amount of Russian barbecue boys the Ukrainians roasted at Kyiv back in March says an entirely different story.


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## Corax

Apollon said:


> You admit, that russias goal to take Ukraine has failed and only goal now is Donbass?



I don't care, as long as they keep on slaughtering each other, supported by the Nazis like you.



F-22Raptor said:


> The amount of Russian barbecue boys the Ukrainians roasted at Kyiv back in March says an entirely different story.



Not really, around 30,000 Uki Nazis have also been roasted...look it up. And while you're at it...have a look at the numbers the Ukiies have actually ADMITTED...and you can at least double those numbers.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> Germany just today has delivered Panzerhaubitze 2000 the worlds most powerful artillery



Not in the least bit. That title goes to Iskander.






Meet Russia's long range artillery. 500 km range Iskander cruise missiles.


@White and Green with M/S @F-22Raptor @Oldman1 @UKBengali @gambit @Ich @jamahir @jamal18 @Hack-Hook @Vergennes @Song Hong @Ali_Baba @bobo6661 @KAL-EL @thetutle @925boy @FuturePAF @mazeto @CAPRICORN-88 @sammuel @Wood @nang2 @Messerschmitt @mmr @Philip the Arab @Apollon @Philip the Arab @Hassan...



defence.pk

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## PakFactor

Tai Hai Chen said:


> To Anglo Saxon he's just a banana. Yellow on the outside. White on the inside.



LOL


----------



## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> The amount of Russian barbecue boys the Ukrainians roasted at Kyiv back in March says an entirely different story.


The man said "He don't care as long as European is killing each other" then immediately reply "Look up how many Ukrainian killed......"


LOL, if that is not pure gold, I don't know what is. And seriously, you can't make that shit up

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## Corax

jhungary said:


> The man said "He don't care as long as European is killing each other" then immediately reply "Look up how many Ukrainian killed......"
> 
> 
> LOL, if that is not pure gold, I don't know what is.



Yeah, becuase NAZO fanboys like you seem to think the Uki Nazis are superhuman and can't be killed. No one is talking about how many men the Uki Nazis have lost on here, I wonder why?   so how many Uki Nazis have been killed? If you're such an "expert", you should know right?!

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

PakFactor said:


> LOL



I'm Canadian citizen and I consider myself Chinese. I am first generation immigrant.

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## Apollon

Corax said:


> I don't care, as long as they keep on slaughtering each other, supported by the Nazis like you.
> 
> 
> 
> Not really, around 30,000 Uki Nazis have also been roasted...look it up. And while you're at it...have a look at the numbers the Ukiies have actually ADMITTED...and you can at least double those numbers.



Oh i am a nazi now? Why exactly


----------



## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> The man said "He don't care as long as European is killing each other" then immediately reply "Look up how many Ukrainian killed......"
> 
> 
> LOL, if that is not pure gold, I don't know what is. And seriously, you can't make that shit up



I mean in the span of a month, the Russians were losing thousands of soldiers and hundreds of pieces of armor at Kyiv. The rate of loss for Russia at Kyiv was absurd.

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## jhungary

Corax said:


> Yeah, becuase NAZO fanboys like you seem to think the Uki Nazis are superhuman and can't be killed. No one is talking about how many men the Uki Nazis have lost on here, I wonder why?   so how many Uki Nazis have been killed? If you're such an "expert", you should know right?!


Sorry, I am still trying to recover from your "I don't care" comment.     

It's gonna take some time......


----------



## Apollon

Corax said:


> Yeah, becuase NAZO fanboys like you seem to think the Uki Nazis are superhuman and can't be killed. No one is talking about how many men the Uki Nazis have lost on here, I wonder why?   so how many Uki Nazis have been killed? If you're such an "expert", you should know right?!



People die in wars for freedom and Independence. What matters is that each city that is free of Russia has the chance to develop free and look forward. Add the fact wr already took 400 billion € from russia to rebuild Ukraine and you know their future is secured


----------



## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> I mean in the span of a month, the Russians were losing thousands of soldiers and hundreds of pieces of armor at Kyiv. The rate of loss for Russia at Kyiv was absurd.


Russian is toasted. and at the end of the day, it DOES NOT COST A SINGLE NATO SOLDIER LIFE.

The "Wrong" European is being killed for him here, the "Evil" American and Anglo are still here and untouched, and that man still too estupendo to understand

(I know estupendo is terrific, you don't need to comment on it)

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## Corax

jhungary said:


> Sorry, I am still trying to recover from your "I don't care" comment.
> 
> It's gonna take some time......



Simple question...tell me the losses on the Ukrainian side

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## jhungary

Corax said:


> Simple question...tell me the losses on the Ukrainian side


You should ask How many "American" or "British" or "Evil West" has been killed.

Last time I check. those are the people you people hate and declare jihad, when is the last terrorist attack in Ukraine by Muslim? So sucks to be you this war killing all the wrong "White" and the evil continue, right?

   

And to be honest, I don't care how many Ukrainian was killed, why would I care, I am not an Ukrainian.. I said a long time ago, as long as they whoop some Ruskie ***, I will do anything to help them.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Russian is toasted. and at the end of the day, it DOES NOT COST A SINGLE NATO SOLDIER LIFE.
> 
> The "Wrong" European is being killed for him here, the "Evil" American and Anglo are still here and untouched, and that man still too estupendo to understand



There is no war in the West. This is why the West is decaying. Without war, people devolve. You think no war is a good thing? Think again.

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## jhungary

Tai Hai Chen said:


> There is no war in the West. This is why the West is decaying. Without war, people devolve. You think no war is a good thing? Think again.


Well, China is decaying too, in fact China shrink more than the Entire West combine, do you think no war is a good thing?

And if you died in a war, that would be a bonus, so I am willing to buy you a ticket and fly you to Russia so you can par take in this "Special Military Operation". So are you just going to talk the talk, and not walk the walk??


----------



## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> Russian is toasted. and at the end of the day, it DOES NOT COST A SINGLE NATO SOLDIER LIFE.
> 
> The "Wrong" European is being killed for him here, the "Evil" American and Anglo are still here and untouched, and that man still too estupendo to understand



You got to love how the Russian trolls try to completely forget what happened at Kyiv. But its hard to blame them though, I'd want to forget that nightmare too.


----------



## Corax

jhungary said:


> I never said I don't care as long as they keep killing each other, I said I am not Ukrainian, and I honestly don't care how many Ukrainian died. I CARE HOW MANY RUSSIAN DIED THO. THE MORE THE MERRIER. Isn't that already implied when I say "As long as they whoop them asses"??
> 
> Dude, at least learn some Inglis if you were to leech off the UK. It make you look stupid. Seriously



Dude, you've just been caught out!!    Keep on saying what you're saying!!  The sad part is that you don't even realise how stupid you sound!!

Oh look at you now...you're throwing your dummy out of your pram and issuing negative ratings to everyone!!

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539271793088811019


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russian army destroys Kiev regime M777 howitzer which was terrorizing civilians of Donbas where president Yanukovych was from.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539220600157347842

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## jhungary

Tai Hai Chen said:


> @jhungary


lol, first of all, do you really think the FBI is that free and have nothing to do to investigate someone that post anonymously on a forum somewhere??

I used to work with a lot of FBI guy in the task force when I do military intelligence, I am pretty sure they already have a file on me.

Second of all, do you really think this is getting into my nerve lol??



F-22Raptor said:


> You got to love how the Russian trolls try to completely forget what happened at Kyiv. But its hard to blame them though, I'd want to forget that nightmare too.


well, these people hide behind 7 foot of concrete wall in the warmth and safety of their basement, that's why they can be all that. When action need to be done, they are going to ignore this ever happen. Honestly, I respect more for those people who fight on the other side of these conflict than these people. at least those who fight took a side and bet their life on it, these folks here? They run their mouth on the back of those people.


----------



## Corax

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russian army destroys Kiev regime M777 howitzer which was terrorizing civilians of Donbas where president Yanukovych was from.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539220600157347842



WOW! Another M777 goes BOOM!! Lots of ammunition cook off, looks like the Russians hit a major Uki Nazi position there, including MLRS and ammunition stocks.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539279074601967622


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Corax said:


> WOW! Another M777 goes BOOM!! Lots of ammunition cook off, looks like the Russians hit a major Uki Nazi position there, including MLRS and ammunition stocks.



Iskanker and Mi-28NM out range M777. They are nick named M777 killers.






Meet Russia's long range artillery. 500 km range Iskander cruise missiles.


@White and Green with M/S @F-22Raptor @Oldman1 @UKBengali @gambit @Ich @jamahir @jamal18 @Hack-Hook @Vergennes @Song Hong @Ali_Baba @bobo6661 @KAL-EL @thetutle @925boy @FuturePAF @mazeto @CAPRICORN-88 @sammuel @Wood @nang2 @Messerschmitt @mmr @Philip the Arab @Apollon @Philip the Arab @Hassan...



defence.pk










Meet Mi-28NM Super Havoc. World's first attack chopper armed with NLOS missiles.


@White and Green with M/S @F-22Raptor @Oldman1 @UKBengali @gambit @Ich @jamahir @jamal18 @Hack-Hook @Vergennes @Song Hong @Ali_Baba @bobo6661 @KAL-EL @thetutle @925boy @FuturePAF @mazeto @CAPRICORN-88 @sammuel @Wood @nang2 @Messerschmitt @mmr @Philip the Arab @Apollon @Philip the Arab @Hassan...



defence.pk

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## SalarHaqq

So far Russia's lost ("killed in action") some 4000 to 6000 troops maximum by all unbiased expert estimates. Whereas the staggering Ukrainan casualty rate is documented well enough including thanks to the Kiev regime's own public admissions.

Now if the Russian toll reaches as much as 35.000 by the end of the war (read the inevitable moment of Russian victory across the board), it will still be perfectly manageable for Moscow. For it would correspond to just about 1% of the total size of the Russian military. And that number is an unrealistically elevated one to start with. Either way, it'll be peanuts for Russia. But except for some extreme cases, the notion that kill ratios are of any relevance to the outcome of a conflict is news to me.

Truth is that NATO will be losing their main territorial springboard through which they intended to destabilize Russia proper. Not to mention the economic damage they're incurring. A major strategic win for Russia is looming.

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## jhungary

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russian army destroys Kiev regime M777 howitzer which was terrorizing civilians of Donbas where president Yanukovych was from.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539220600157347842


even blind dumbass can see there is a ballistic shield on those gun, M777 does not have ballistic shield. Plus the profile is all wrong. The side mount on this gun is along half length of that barrel. While M777 is approximately 2/3

But hey, what do I expect from gullible people like you, you probably never even see a M777 in action.


----------



## Corax

SalarHaqq said:


> So far Russia's lost ("killed in action") some 4000 to 6000 troops maximum by all unbiased expert estimates. Whereas the staggering Ukrainan casualty rate is documented well enough including thanks to the Kiev regime's own public admissions.
> 
> Now if the Russian toll reaches to 35.000 by the end of the war (read the inevitable moment of Russian victory across the board), it would still be perfectly manageable for Moscow. For it would correspond to just about 1% of the total size of the Russian military. And that number is an unrealistically elevated one to start with. But except for extreme cases, the notion that kill ratios are of any relevance to the outcome of a conflict is news to me.
> 
> Truth is that NATO will be losing their main territorial springboard through which they intended to destabilize Russia proper. Not to mention the economic damage they're incurring. A major strategic win for Russia is looming.



Try telling that to all the NATO fanboys here! lol

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539279074601967622



Caesar howitzer is easy target for Iskander and Mi-28NM.






Meet Russia's long range artillery. 500 km range Iskander cruise missiles.


@White and Green with M/S @F-22Raptor @Oldman1 @UKBengali @gambit @Ich @jamahir @jamal18 @Hack-Hook @Vergennes @Song Hong @Ali_Baba @bobo6661 @KAL-EL @thetutle @925boy @FuturePAF @mazeto @CAPRICORN-88 @sammuel @Wood @nang2 @Messerschmitt @mmr @Philip the Arab @Apollon @Philip the Arab @Hassan...



defence.pk










Meet Mi-28NM Super Havoc. World's first attack chopper armed with NLOS missiles.


@White and Green with M/S @F-22Raptor @Oldman1 @UKBengali @gambit @Ich @jamahir @jamal18 @Hack-Hook @Vergennes @Song Hong @Ali_Baba @bobo6661 @KAL-EL @thetutle @925boy @FuturePAF @mazeto @CAPRICORN-88 @sammuel @Wood @nang2 @Messerschmitt @mmr @Philip the Arab @Apollon @Philip the Arab @Hassan...



defence.pk

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Corax said:


> Nope, it's M777 dumbass
> 
> View attachment 855590



Judging from the GUI, the drone is a Zala, one of the newer ones which have sharper resolution.

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## jhungary

Corax said:


> Nope, it's M777 dumbass
> 
> View attachment 855590


Sure, tell me which part identify this gun as M777. Name me some feature M777 have appear in this picture.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Corax said:


> Nope, it's M777 dumbass
> 
> View attachment 855590




Some losses were to be expected, its war after all. Another 18 are on the way.


----------



## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> Some losses were to be expected, its war after all. Another 18 are on the way.


I think they lost 4 M777, but this is not one of them. This is quite clearly a D-30

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## Corax

jhungary said:


> Sure, tell me which part identify this gun as M777. Name me some feature M777 have appear in this picture.
> 
> Now go.



Wow! really, a negative rating for showing you a M777 being destroyed?! Wow, you really are a baby throwing your dummy out of your pram aren't you!? OMG!!


----------



## jhungary

Corax said:


> Wow! really, a negative rating for showing you a M777 being destroyed?! Wow, you really are a baby throwing your dummy out of your pram aren't you!? OMG!!


I gave you a -ve rating for insulting me and calling me dumbass.

And you still have not proven this is a M777, again, show me which part in this gun identify it as M777? Otherwise the joke is on you.


----------



## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> I think they lost 4 M777, but this is not one of them. This is quite clearly a D-30




They've lost a handful at most, with another 18 on the way. Its not significant losses.


----------



## Corax

jhungary said:


> I think they lost 4 M777, but this is not one of them. This is quite clearly a D-30



No it's not, it's clearly a M777

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## SalarHaqq

Corax said:


> Try telling that to all the NATO fanboys here! lol



Let them, let them. Pitiable NATO supporters need to spin themselves some alternative narrative to find consolation in. You need to understand, their muffled frustrations and insecurities are running high as we speak.

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> They've lost a handful at most, with another 18 on the way. Its not significant losses.


OSINT confirm there are 4 loss, maybe more, but again as I said, that gun is not M777

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> Some losses were to be expected, its war after all. Another 18 are on the way.



Send all of America's M777. Don't make a difference. They will continue to be hunted down as long as the Kiev regime continues shelling the civilians of Donbas where president Yanukovych was from.

Iskander artillery and Mi-28NM attack aircraft slaughter M777 artillery like there's no tomorrow.







Meet Russia's long range artillery. 500 km range Iskander cruise missiles.


@White and Green with M/S @F-22Raptor @Oldman1 @UKBengali @gambit @Ich @jamahir @jamal18 @Hack-Hook @Vergennes @Song Hong @Ali_Baba @bobo6661 @KAL-EL @thetutle @925boy @FuturePAF @mazeto @CAPRICORN-88 @sammuel @Wood @nang2 @Messerschmitt @mmr @Philip the Arab @Apollon @Philip the Arab @Hassan...



defence.pk










Meet Mi-28NM Super Havoc. World's first attack chopper armed with NLOS missiles.


@White and Green with M/S @F-22Raptor @Oldman1 @UKBengali @gambit @Ich @jamahir @jamal18 @Hack-Hook @Vergennes @Song Hong @Ali_Baba @bobo6661 @KAL-EL @thetutle @925boy @FuturePAF @mazeto @CAPRICORN-88 @sammuel @Wood @nang2 @Messerschmitt @mmr @Philip the Arab @Apollon @Philip the Arab @Hassan...



defence.pk


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539280970599346177

For all the Russian trolls that keep claiming how much territory Russia has gained in the last month. In fact very little, and Ukraine just as much.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539280970599346177
> 
> For all the Russian trolls that keep claiming how much territory Russia has gained in the last month. In fact very little, and Ukraine just as much.



Severodonetsk is the capital of the Kiev regime held part of Luhansk oblast. It's about to fall.


----------



## ZeGerman

SalarHaqq said:


> So far Russia's lost ("killed in action") some 4000 to 6000 troops maximum by all unbiased expert estimates. Whereas the staggering Ukrainan casualty rate is documented well enough including thanks to the Kiev regime's own public admissions.


Unbiased experts? Links please.

In march leaked russian news already talked about 10.000. And oryx lists a huge number of destroyed russia material. 




SalarHaqq said:


> Truth is that NATO will be losing their main territorial springboard through which they intended to destabilize Russia proper. Not to mention the economic damage they're incurring. A major strategic win for Russia is looming.



Lets first see if russia can even win and hold donbass. 80% ukraine is now forever lost to them. 

Europe, their largest trade partner is now their renewed new coldwar enemy. 

Strategic win my ***


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> 80% ukraine is now forever lost to them.



Russians don't want to be friends with the Kiev regime which shells civilians of Donbas. Even if Russia has no diplomatic relation with the Kiev regime, Russia is on moral high ground. I wouldn't want to associate myself with psychopaths myself.

Likewise, Russia broke diplomatic relations with Moldova and Georgia when Moldova and Georgia shelled their own civilians in Transnistria, South Ossetia, Abkhazia.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539282936725491713

Ukraine has hit Snake Island again


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539282936725491713
> 
> Ukraine has hit Snake Island again



Meh.


----------



## ZeGerman

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539280970599346177
> 
> For all the Russian trolls that keep claiming how much territory Russia has gained in the last month. In fact very little, and Ukraine just as much.


And those muppets have been regurgitating russian propaganda claims of a disintegrating ukranian morale and front for months now.

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## jhungary

Corax said:


> No it's not, it's clearly a M777
> 
> View attachment 855591
> 
> 
> View attachment 855592
> 
> 
> View attachment 855595


I am not asking you to repeat what You said, I am asking you to ID which parts make it M777.

I can show you which part on this guns make it NOT M777.







First of all, as I said, the barrel and the side skirt in this picture is roughly 1/2 thru the barrel. As the actual M777 it reaches 2/3 of the barrel.


On the other hand, the area highlighted in black circle is smooth. In M777, the top side have the optics on top (Green Circle as reference) and the bottom side you have the latch/notch that hold that barrel in place via a screw jack (Red Circle), It will not be smooth like the gun destroyed in the picture. You need that notch because that where you take down the barrel so you can put it together and have it airdrop. There is also a considerable gap within that shielding so that you can access the screwjack, which I don't see in the gun that was destroyed.










Unlike you, I have had field stripped a M777 (well, I didn't do it myself) so I know what it looks like, the gun that you show have no way you can take it apart, which is what M777 is famous for.

So no, that is NOT a M777.

We don't know the angle on how that barrel turn, it could be 2A65 or 2A36 or any system turn to the side.

Now, your turn, what identify that destroyed gun is M777, talk is REALLY CHEAP, now show me some action, prove that I was wrong, please, and I am not asking for "The RT title is M777" BS, I need you to physically identify that gun as M777 by point it to the feature that appear on a M777.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## ZeGerman

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Send all of America's M777. Don't make a difference. They will continue to be hunted down as long as the Kiev regime continues shelling the civilians of Donbas where president Yanukovych was from.
> 
> Iskander artillery and Mi-28NM attack aircraft slaughter M777 artillery like there's no tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meet Russia's long range artillery. 500 km range Iskander cruise missiles.
> 
> 
> @White and Green with M/S @F-22Raptor @Oldman1 @UKBengali @gambit @Ich @jamahir @jamal18 @Hack-Hook @Vergennes @Song Hong @Ali_Baba @bobo6661 @KAL-EL @thetutle @925boy @FuturePAF @mazeto @CAPRICORN-88 @sammuel @Wood @nang2 @Messerschmitt @mmr @Philip the Arab @Apollon @Philip the Arab @Hassan...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meet Mi-28NM Super Havoc. World's first attack chopper armed with NLOS missiles.
> 
> 
> @White and Green with M/S @F-22Raptor @Oldman1 @UKBengali @gambit @Ich @jamahir @jamal18 @Hack-Hook @Vergennes @Song Hong @Ali_Baba @bobo6661 @KAL-EL @thetutle @925boy @FuturePAF @mazeto @CAPRICORN-88 @sammuel @Wood @nang2 @Messerschmitt @mmr @Philip the Arab @Apollon @Philip the Arab @Hassan...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


If that is the case then with russia propaganda and especially in “pro russian” territory, we would be seeing many many photos of destroyed material. 

Instead we see none/a handfull. 


In meantime almost 200 of western artillery was sent already. With multiple pictures of their use. 

Reality will break your dream soon


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> If that is the case then with russia propaganda and especially in “pro russian” territory, we would be seeing many many photos of destroyed material.
> 
> Instead we see none/a handfull.
> 
> 
> In meantime almost 200 of western artillery was sent already. With multiple pictures of their use.
> 
> Reality will break your dream soon



The war hasn't even started properly yet. Come back in 10 years and we will see the situation.

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## Corax

jhungary said:


> I am not asking you to repeat what You said, I am asking you to ID which parts make it M777.
> 
> I can show you which part on this guns make it NOT M777.
> 
> View attachment 855596
> 
> 
> First of all, as I said, the barrel and the side skirt in this picture is roughly 1/2 thru the barrel. As the actual M777 it reaches 2/3 of the barrel.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, the area highlighted in black circle is smooth. In M777, the top side have the optics on top (Green Circle as reference) and the bottom side you have the latch/notch that hold that barrel in place via a screw jack (Red Circle), It will not be smooth like the gun destroyed in the picture. You need that notch because that where you take down the barrel so you can put it together and have it airdrop. There is also a considerable gap within that shielding so that you can access the screwjack, which I don't see in the gun that was destroyed.
> View attachment 855597
> 
> 
> View attachment 855599
> 
> 
> Unlike you, I have had field stripped a M777 (well, I didn't do it myself) so I know what it looks like, the gun that you show have no way you can take it apart, which is what M777 is famous for.
> 
> So no, that is NOT a M777.
> 
> Now, your turn, what identify that destroyed gun is M777, talk is REALLY CHEAP, now show me some action, prove that I was wrong, please, and I am not asking for "The RT title is M777" BS, I need you to physically identify that gun as M777 by point it to the feature that appear on a M777.



You don't need to "field strip an M777" ...*cough bullshit cough* to see the significant difference between a D30 and M777. And you're telling me you would be able see "latches" and "screwjacks" in that photo?    mate, give it up...it's a M777. I tell you what, let's leave it up to other members to decide what they see...because as you said "any dumbass" would be able to tell the difference right?

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539288719638859776

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## Type59

jhungary said:


> I never said I don't care as long as they keep killing each other, I said I am not Ukrainian, and I honestly don't care how many Ukrainian died. I CARE HOW MANY RUSSIAN DIED THO. THE MORE THE MERRIER. Isn't that already implied when I say "As long as they whoop them asses"??
> 
> Dude, at least learn some Inglis if you were to leech off the UK. It make you look stupid. Seriously



You Americans are killing yourselves soo no one here needs to declare "jihad". 

Don't worry, when US invades another country, don't be surprised if Russians supply guided weapons. Lucky for Americans they had an understanding with you guys in Iraq and Afghanistan.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539290174366093312

The top US Nazi hunter has been assigned to prosecute Russian war crimes. He's prosecuted over 100 German Nazis that were in the US.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539143436833501185

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## jhungary

Corax said:


> You don't need to "field strip an M777" ...*cough bullshit cough* to see the significant difference between a D30 and M777. And you're telling me you would be able see "latches" and "screwjacks" in that photo?    mate, give it up...it's a M777. I tell you what, let's leave it up to other members to decide what they see...because as you said "any dumbass" would be able to tell the difference right?


So, you have no answer?? Got it    

Talk is for real cheapskate..........But then that's on me, I know this is just going to be wasting my time talking to someone who know the square root of jack shit about war and military equipment, not even sure if you even know where a bullet come out from which hole........



Type59 said:


> You Americans are killing yourselves soo no one here needs to declare "jihad".
> 
> Don't worry, when US invades another country, don't be surprised if Russians supply guided weapons. Lucky for Americans they had an understanding with you guys in Iraq and Afghanistan.


As if our enemy were not supplied with Russian weapon already......

I am sorry, I didn't realise the Iraqi National guard was shooting at me with AR-15 or G-36 when I was in Iraq.

That mean absolutely nothing.


----------



## Corax

Type59 said:


> You Americans are killing yourselves soo no one here needs to declare "jihad".
> 
> Don't worry, when US invades another country, don't be surprised if Russians supply guided weapons. Lucky for Americans they had an understanding with you guys in Iraq and Afghanistan.



The rednecks and their panzie NAZO poodles can only fight starving nations who are too weak to fight back...and even then they can't do that properly and run away like a whimpering dog.



jhungary said:


> So, you have no answer?? Got it
> 
> Talk is for real cheapskate..........But then that's on me, I know this is just going to be wasting my time talking to someone who know the square root of jack shit about war and military equipment, not even sure if you even know where a bullet come out from which hole........
> 
> 
> As if our enemy were not supplied with Russian weapon already......
> 
> I am sorry, I didn't realise the Iraqi National guard was shooting at me with AR-15 or G-36 when I was in Iraq.
> 
> That mean absolutely nothing.



On here you're just another keyboard warrior like everyone else. You need burnoil because you're too buthurt over M777s being blown up

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Corax said:


> The rednecks and their panzie NAZO poodles can only fight starving nations who are too weak to fight back...and even then they can't do that properly and run away like a whimpering dog.
> 
> 
> 
> On here you're just another keyboard warrior like everyone else. You need burnoil because you're too buthurt over M777s being blown up



Americans got their arses legit handed to them in Iraq and Afghanistan.

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## jhungary

Corax said:


> On here you're just another keyboard warrior like everyone else. You need burnoil because you're too buthurt over M777s being blown up


more like you butt hurt over being called out for mistaken another system to a M777.

I still yet to see you try to prove that was a M777. I mean, I did my part, yours's lacking.   

But hey, what do I expect, right? You somehow know how or what a M777 looks like and point out that I am wrong? Not Likely LOL


----------



## Apollon

Corax said:


> The rednecks and their panzie NAZO poodles can only fight starving nations who are too weak to fight back...and even then they can't do that properly and run away like a whimpering dog.
> 
> 
> 
> On here you're just another keyboard warrior like everyone else. You need burnoil because you're too buthurt over M777s being blown up



Your mistake is, that yountalk more and more primitive


----------



## Corax

jhungary said:


> more like you butt hurt over being called out for mistaken another system to a M777.
> 
> I still yet to see you try to prove that was a M777. I mean, I did my part, yours's lacking.
> 
> But hey, what do I expect, right? You somehow know how or what a M777 looks like and point out that I am wrong? Not Likely LOL



It's a M777, no amount of pretending to "field strip" a howitzer is going to change that   



Apollon said:


> Your mistake is, that yountalk more and more primitive



Before critiquing the language abilities of others, perhaps learn English spelling and grammar first

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## jhungary

Corax said:


> It's a M777, no amount of pretending to "field strip" a howitzer is going to change that


Sure, whatever you said........

Kind of pointless to keep asking you to identify how it is a M777, but not a turn over 2A36 or 2A65 or D30 or D-20 or anything that make it looked like one, but hey, you said it, then it must be right, am I right??   

Maybe they should make you a military professional, what do I know about military, am I right? I mean, how do I argue with someone who say "What I said is correct and you are wrong, when asked to produce proof?" It's hard to argue with that.   

LOL


----------



## Viet

Germany’s heavy artillery arrives the battlefield.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539225560588734466


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Germany’s heavy artillery arrives the battlefield.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539225560588734466



German howitzer is easily hunted down by Russian missile artillery and attack aircraft.






Meet Russia's long range artillery. 500 km range Iskander cruise missiles.


@White and Green with M/S @F-22Raptor @Oldman1 @UKBengali @gambit @Ich @jamahir @jamal18 @Hack-Hook @Vergennes @Song Hong @Ali_Baba @bobo6661 @KAL-EL @thetutle @925boy @FuturePAF @mazeto @CAPRICORN-88 @sammuel @Wood @nang2 @Messerschmitt @mmr @Philip the Arab @Apollon @Philip the Arab @Hassan...



defence.pk










Meet Mi-28NM Super Havoc. World's first attack chopper armed with NLOS missiles.


@White and Green with M/S @F-22Raptor @Oldman1 @UKBengali @gambit @Ich @jamahir @jamal18 @Hack-Hook @Vergennes @Song Hong @Ali_Baba @bobo6661 @KAL-EL @thetutle @925boy @FuturePAF @mazeto @CAPRICORN-88 @sammuel @Wood @nang2 @Messerschmitt @mmr @Philip the Arab @Apollon @Philip the Arab @Hassan...



defence.pk

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## jhungary

Apollon said:


> Your mistake is, that yountalk more and more primitive


You know what's funny?

The man live in England, which make him NAZO collaborator..........

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> German howitzer is easily hunted down by Russian missile artillery and attack aircraft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meet Russia's long range artillery. 500 km range Iskander cruise missiles.
> 
> 
> @White and Green with M/S @F-22Raptor @Oldman1 @UKBengali @gambit @Ich @jamahir @jamal18 @Hack-Hook @Vergennes @Song Hong @Ali_Baba @bobo6661 @KAL-EL @thetutle @925boy @FuturePAF @mazeto @CAPRICORN-88 @sammuel @Wood @nang2 @Messerschmitt @mmr @Philip the Arab @Apollon @Philip the Arab @Hassan...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meet Mi-28NM Super Havoc. World's first attack chopper armed with NLOS missiles.
> 
> 
> @White and Green with M/S @F-22Raptor @Oldman1 @UKBengali @gambit @Ich @jamahir @jamal18 @Hack-Hook @Vergennes @Song Hong @Ali_Baba @bobo6661 @KAL-EL @thetutle @925boy @FuturePAF @mazeto @CAPRICORN-88 @sammuel @Wood @nang2 @Messerschmitt @mmr @Philip the Arab @Apollon @Philip the Arab @Hassan...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


Why dont you, for a change, post something showing us an Iskander hitting a mobile artillery unit in the field? We have seen Russia fire those things straight up in the air a hundred times. Its kind of boring.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

According to JulianRoepcke the destroyed artillery are in fact M777. Most likely they were hunted down by Mi-28NM using NLOS missiles.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539224243640094720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539224556619108357

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## Apollon

Destroyed Russian Tanks to Be Paraded Across Europe by Ukraine


Ukraine is planning to tour an exhibition of destroyed Russian military vehicles across Europe, as it strives to maintain public attention on the conflict.




www.bloomberg.com







When its in Berlin i will visit this exhibition of destroyed russian stuff


@jamahir @Corax @jhungary @F-22Raptor









Destroyed Russian Tanks to Be Paraded Across Europe by Ukraine


Ukraine is planning to tour an exhibition of destroyed Russian military vehicles across Europe, as it strives to maintain public attention on the conflict.




www.bloomberg.com







When its in Berlin i will visit this exhibition of destroyed russian stuff


@jamahir @Corax @jhungary @F-22Raptor

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> Destroyed Russian Tanks to Be Paraded Across Europe by Ukraine
> 
> 
> Ukraine is planning to tour an exhibition of destroyed Russian military vehicles across Europe, as it strives to maintain public attention on the conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bloomberg.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When its in Berlin i will visit this exhibition of destroyed russian stuff
> 
> 
> @jamahir @Corax @jhungary @F-22Raptor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Destroyed Russian Tanks to Be Paraded Across Europe by Ukraine
> 
> 
> Ukraine is planning to tour an exhibition of destroyed Russian military vehicles across Europe, as it strives to maintain public attention on the conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bloomberg.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When its in Berlin i will visit this exhibition of destroyed russian stuff
> 
> 
> @jamahir @Corax @jhungary @F-22Raptor



Already replaced. Russia can manufacture 100+ T-90M within a year.



https://tass.com/defense/1452083

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## jhungary

Apollon said:


> Destroyed Russian Tanks to Be Paraded Across Europe by Ukraine
> 
> 
> Ukraine is planning to tour an exhibition of destroyed Russian military vehicles across Europe, as it strives to maintain public attention on the conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bloomberg.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When its in Berlin i will visit this exhibition of destroyed russian stuff
> 
> 
> @jamahir @Corax @jhungary @F-22Raptor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Destroyed Russian Tanks to Be Paraded Across Europe by Ukraine
> 
> 
> Ukraine is planning to tour an exhibition of destroyed Russian military vehicles across Europe, as it strives to maintain public attention on the conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bloomberg.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When its in Berlin i will visit this exhibition of destroyed russian stuff
> 
> 
> @jamahir @Corax @jhungary @F-22Raptor


When I was there, they have a "Red Square" full of destroyed Russian equipment, tanks, APC, Z-car and so on.

The name does not come from "Red Soviet" but rather it was filled with Russian Blood. 

The man in charge of that "Red Square" said if they melted down the destroyed tanks and other stuff, it would have enough steel to build another Empire State Building, I made a joke at him asking "Do you know how much steel you need to build an Empire State Building?"

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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> German howitzer is easily hunted down by Russian missile artillery and attack aircraft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meet Russia's long range artillery. 500 km range Iskander cruise missiles.
> 
> 
> @White and Green with M/S @F-22Raptor @Oldman1 @UKBengali @gambit @Ich @jamahir @jamal18 @Hack-Hook @Vergennes @Song Hong @Ali_Baba @bobo6661 @KAL-EL @thetutle @925boy @FuturePAF @mazeto @CAPRICORN-88 @sammuel @Wood @nang2 @Messerschmitt @mmr @Philip the Arab @Apollon @Philip the Arab @Hassan...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meet Mi-28NM Super Havoc. World's first attack chopper armed with NLOS missiles.
> 
> 
> @White and Green with M/S @F-22Raptor @Oldman1 @UKBengali @gambit @Ich @jamahir @jamal18 @Hack-Hook @Vergennes @Song Hong @Ali_Baba @bobo6661 @KAL-EL @thetutle @925boy @FuturePAF @mazeto @CAPRICORN-88 @sammuel @Wood @nang2 @Messerschmitt @mmr @Philip the Arab @Apollon @Philip the Arab @Hassan...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


Not that easy
The howitzer is mobile, agile. Hit and run. Its specialty: it fires salvo of long range ammunitions at targets at different angles in 40km away.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539301953091534850


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russian army destroys Kiev regime M777 howitzer which was terrorizing civilians of Donbas where president Yanukovych was from.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539220600157347842


M777 would have always been vulnerable to drone strikes and indirect artillery.... What we haven't seen is much truck and tracked artillery being destroyed by the Russians.... Ukrainians are doing a much better job at the shoot and scoot tactic than Russians ..


----------



## F-22Raptor

Iron Shrappenel said:


> M777 would have always been vulnerable to drone strikes and indirect artillery.... What we haven't seen is much truck and tracked artillery being destroyed by the Russians.... Ukrainians are doing a much better job at the shoot and scoot tactic than Russians ..




This war has taught us the Russians have little capability to track moving targets. Fixed targets are all they can hit. 

Their way behind the US in this capability


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

Corax said:


> No it's not, it's clearly a M777
> 
> View attachment 855591
> 
> 
> View attachment 855592
> 
> 
> View attachment 855595


That's an M777 alright.... No shame in loss just some people here want to glorify weaponry as if they can't be destroyed.... Getting some Caesars out of action would be a challenge though...



Tai Hai Chen said:


> German howitzer is easily hunted down by Russian missile artillery and attack aircraft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meet Russia's long range artillery. 500 km range Iskander cruise missiles.
> 
> 
> @White and Green with M/S @F-22Raptor @Oldman1 @UKBengali @gambit @Ich @jamahir @jamal18 @Hack-Hook @Vergennes @Song Hong @Ali_Baba @bobo6661 @KAL-EL @thetutle @925boy @FuturePAF @mazeto @CAPRICORN-88 @sammuel @Wood @nang2 @Messerschmitt @mmr @Philip the Arab @Apollon @Philip the Arab @Hassan...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meet Mi-28NM Super Havoc. World's first attack chopper armed with NLOS missiles.
> 
> 
> @White and Green with M/S @F-22Raptor @Oldman1 @UKBengali @gambit @Ich @jamahir @jamal18 @Hack-Hook @Vergennes @Song Hong @Ali_Baba @bobo6661 @KAL-EL @thetutle @925boy @FuturePAF @mazeto @CAPRICORN-88 @sammuel @Wood @nang2 @Messerschmitt @mmr @Philip the Arab @Apollon @Philip the Arab @Hassan...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


We have yet to see that so... Let's claim what we see...

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## Iron Shrappenel

F-22Raptor said:


> This war has taught us the Russians have little capability to track moving targets. Fixed targets are all they can hit.
> 
> Their way behind the US in this capability


We will see when America enters a war with a near peer adversary.... Or at least the one being supplied near peer equipment.... Fighting recycled T72s is no accomplishment... Especially when there was nothing anything close to the GPS back then.... The Pandora's box that US has opened now... The Russians will remember...

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539305630963482626


Iron Shrappenel said:


> We will see when America enters a war with a near peer adversary.... Or at least the one being supplied near peer equipment.... Fighting recycled T72s is no accomplishment... Especially when there was nothing anything close to the GPS back then.... The Pandora's box that US has opened now... The Russians will remember...



The Russians are 20-30 years behind the US in microelectronics and sensor capability.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Not that easy
> The howitzer is mobile, agile. Hit and run. Its specialty: it fires salvo of long range ammunitions at targets at different angles in 40km away.



It has huge RCS. Mi-28NM can detect and track it by radar from 50 km away and attack it using NLOS missile from 20 km away.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539305630963482626
> 
> 
> The Russians are 20-30 years behind the US in microelectronics and sensor capability.



F-22 is powered by Intel 486 CPU. Russian CPU is sufficient, plus they can buy CPU from China.



Iron Shrappenel said:


> M777 would have always been vulnerable to drone strikes and indirect artillery.... What we haven't seen is much truck and tracked artillery being destroyed by the Russians.... Ukrainians are doing a much better job at the shoot and scoot tactic than Russians ..



Shoot and scoot is expensive on fuel. Ukraine don't even have fuel for civilian cars. All of Ukraine's fuel are used for war.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539309293564235777

T-62 destroyed


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539309293564235777
> 
> T-62 destroyed



Easily repaired.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## zectech

ZeGerman said:


> So how is Lavrovs multipolar world supposed to work.
> 
> You had several blocks
> 1. USA
> 2. China
> 3. EU
> 4. Russia
> 
> With EU weaning itself from American influence/control.
> Russia gaining from being able to trade with both east and west, and become a silkroute hub.
> 
> 
> Now thanks to russias attempt to annex ukraine…eu is weakened and more reliant on usa again.
> Russia is also damaged, and loses its trade with their biggest customer. Now simply becoming Chinas cheap source of resources…fully its junior “partner” now.
> 
> 
> The 2 already slightly weaker blocks got weakened further in favor of the two superpowers



And then Trump returns in 2024, destroys China... and the cia plan for a rules based dis(order) out of Washington and the British Crown, with Israel strong arming the Islamic nations is going to be imposed Washington geopolitics, with other Trump puppets being the new junior partners. The Putin strategy of destroying the EU depends on Trump getting back into the White House in 2025.









Russia TV Hosts Fear Jan. 6 Hearing Will Hurt Trump's Re-Election Chances


The hearings are being followed closely by pro-Putin journalists, who have bashed the Jan. 6 committee as "a step towards dictatorship."




www.newsweek.com





These individuals are not hiding which individuals they want to be the rulers:









Netanyahu puts up election ads featuring Modi, Putin, Trump


World leaders close to Netanyahu feature prominently in new campaign ad




www.theweek.in





The Trumper anti-Islam Le Pen Putinites were backed by Netanyahu in Europe and in North America

_"We are very happy," agrees Filip Dewinter, a leading member of Belgian right-wing party Vlaams Belang. "*It is a good thing for Israel, but also good for right-wing parties in Europe because he understands that the first danger for Europe is Islamisation*." David Lasar, a foreign policy co-ordinator for the Austrian Freedom Party, echoed that sentiment. "For sure, I am very happy," says Lasar, who has worked hard in recent years to develop ties with staunchly conservative parties overseas. "It is a very important step that Netanyahu has won the election."

The Likud party has been cautiously returning the admiration. Many Israeli conservatives feel that the political mainstream in Europe has become increasingly antagonistic toward Israel in recent years. They point to Sweden's official recognition of Palestine and to the fact that other EU countries have discussed doing the same. European reaction to Operation Protective Edge, which saw the Israeli military invade the Gaza Strip last summer, was likewise critical. "A part of the centre-Left still sympathises with us," says Michael Kleiner, a senior Likud member. "But the younger generation is more guided by Muslim votes. Left-wing parties are tending more and more to compromise between moral values and the need to be nice to the Muslims."

Sentiments like that are music to the ears of European right-wing parties. "*For me, Netanyahu is quite a positive choice*," says Aymeric Chauprade, a member of European Parliament for *(Le Pen's) Front National*. "He is very strong against terror and against Islamists." Kent Ekeroth, a Swedish parliamentarian with the right-wing Swedish Democrats, agrees: "It is far better that Likud won," he says. "The Left doesn't take the security situation seriously and, because of that, they are far more likely to appease the Arabs."_









Netanyahu's Unholy Alliance With Europe's 'Anti-Semitic' Far Right


Europe's nationalist parties are rushing to support formerly reviled Israel as an ally against the 'scourge' of Islamisation.




www.newsweek.com





These Trumpers and anti-Islam Europeans hold as their leader:









Putin Is 'Grand Godfather of Extreme Nationalism' – Clinton


U.S. presidential candidate Hillary Clinton called Russian President Vladimir Putin the “grand godfather of this global brand of extreme nationalism,” speaking at a campaign event in Nevada.The former U.S.




www.themoscowtimes.com





And ironically Putin does not tolerate extreme nationalism in Russia:





__





Loading…






www.rt.com





Because unbeknownst to the Islamic naions and Putinites in Europe, the Russian Jews say the Russian economy is run by the Chabad and other Jews





__





Putin and Jews






www.bitchute.com





The media connections of Netanyahu want to make the Putinites of Europe be the "ruling government".

The Paypal Mafia that backs Trump goals, transhumanism and bitcoin as the global currency are going to be the new JP Morgans, new Rockefellers, new Carnegie. These are the new central bankers of bitcoin if the dollar collapses, the Paypal mafia, the Trump criminals and the old bankers are fully invested in bitcoin to impose that on Europe and the globe.

These Putinites are the new avant-garde of Trump and the cia.

The good side wants to take out Netanyahu and Trump from politics. Then move onto defeating Putin and keeping Le Pen from winning. Then make the UK a Republic and ban the British crown who is close to Trump. There is a reason why the Queen did not campaign against Brexit and let Trump campaign against the EU for the UK. The Trump Dynasty is planned to be the new "Kennedy Family royals" for politics. And UK backs them.

The British Crown allowed this to happen, along with MI6, Brexit is about the Anglo-American federation being the "rulers of the globe"









Putin’s Plot Against ‘Great’ Britain – And How He Got Away With It – Byline Times


Peter Jukes tracks Vladimir Putin’s long war against the West and the allies he has found in the pro-Brexit establishment in the plot to derail Britain




bylinetimes.com





"Derail" the UK from being in the EU, before the planned demolition of the EU by Putin.

Putin taking out the European Union is step one. Trump takes out China. And Putin is allied with "President Trump" in 2025-2029, back in the white house.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539124693374062595


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## Iron Shrappenel

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Shoot and scoot is expensive on fuel. Ukraine don't even have fuel for civilian cars. All of Ukraine's fuel are used for war.


They haven't had much issue upto now.
Fuel is reserved all over the world for emergency services in case of war. No big deal.
Again,
Hunting mobile artillery should be first priority for Russian forces. 
Maybe that's why we have seen the Mi-28NM enter the battlefield.


----------



## Corax

jhungary said:


> When I was there, they have a "Red Square" full of destroyed Russian equipment, tanks, APC, Z-car and so on.
> 
> The name does not come from "Red Soviet" but rather it was filled with Russian Blood.
> 
> The man in charge of that "Red Square" said if they melted down the destroyed tanks and other stuff, it would have enough steel to build another Empire State Building, I made a joke at him asking "Do you know how much steel you need to build an Empire State Building?"



Prove that you "was there". And if you can, how come you ran away like a chicken?!    How come you're still not there "killing Russians"?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Iron Shrappenel said:


> They haven't had much issue upto now.
> Fuel is reserved all over the world for emergency services in case of war. No big deal.
> Again,
> Hunting mobile artillery should be first priority for Russian forces.
> Maybe that's why we have seen the Mi-28NM enter the battlefield.



Mi-28NM was deployed in combat a few days ago.






Meet Mi-28NM Super Havoc. World's first attack chopper armed with NLOS missiles.


@White and Green with M/S @F-22Raptor @Oldman1 @UKBengali @gambit @Ich @jamahir @jamal18 @Hack-Hook @Vergennes @Song Hong @Ali_Baba @bobo6661 @KAL-EL @thetutle @925boy @FuturePAF @mazeto @CAPRICORN-88 @sammuel @Wood @nang2 @Messerschmitt @mmr @Philip the Arab @Apollon @Philip the Arab @Hassan...



defence.pk

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## Iron Shrappenel

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Mi-28NM was deployed in combat a few days ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meet Mi-28NM Super Havoc. World's first attack chopper armed with NLOS missiles.
> 
> 
> @White and Green with M/S @F-22Raptor @Oldman1 @UKBengali @gambit @Ich @jamahir @jamal18 @Hack-Hook @Vergennes @Song Hong @Ali_Baba @bobo6661 @KAL-EL @thetutle @925boy @FuturePAF @mazeto @CAPRICORN-88 @sammuel @Wood @nang2 @Messerschmitt @mmr @Philip the Arab @Apollon @Philip the Arab @Hassan...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


Specifically for hunting mobile artillery I think... Otherwise the KA-52s were playing a good game of attrition... Mi-28NMs seem more like a scalpel than an axe let's see their impact.
One reservation with me wrt Russian tactics is that they are reactionary and very late at that... Why haven't these helis entered the war earlier is a question i can't get my head around.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Iron Shrappenel said:


> Specifically for hunting mobile artillery I think... Otherwise the KA-52s were playing a good game of attrition... Mi-28NMs seem more like a scalpel than an axe let's see their impact.
> One reservation with me wrt Russian tactics is that they are reactionary and very late at that... Why haven't these helis entered the war earlier is a question i can't get my head around.



Ka-52M is getting AESA radar. Ka-52M and Mi-28NM are new breed of Russian attack choppers. Both are armed with new BVR air to ground missiles.

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## Iron Shrappenel

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Ka-52M is getting AESA radar. Ka-52M and Mi-28NM are new breed of Russian attack choppers. Both are armed with new BVR air to ground missiles.


Haven't seen many KA-52s using precision munition or the correct term would be as much as the should use... Moreover we have seen them firing salvo upon salvo of missiles in a general direction which I'm sure are less accurate than a MLRS ....


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## Soldier35

Rumors are constantly being spread on the Internet about Russia's alleged huge losses of tanks in Ukraine, some individuals even claim that Russia's losses in Ukraine amount to thousands, so Russia removes old T-62 tanks from storage. Indeed, Russia removed the old tanks from storage and sent them to Ukraine, but not because of fictional huge losses, but because tanks are transferred to the militia, one example of this you will see later in the video, in addition, these tanks are convenient to use as long-term firing points or as mobile artillery, using them from a distance of 3-4 kilometers. Next, the video shows a detachment of Ossetian militia on Russian T-62 tanks.










Russian artillerymen destroyed American 155-mm M-777 howitzers in Ukraine during a counter-battery fight. It is reported that in general, 15 M777 howitzers were destroyed per day, most of which were in the area of the Druzhkovka railway station, the howitzers did not have time to fire a single shot.

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## nang2

jhungary said:


> more like you butt hurt over being called out for mistaken another system to a M777.
> 
> I still yet to see you try to prove that was a M777. I mean, I did my part, yours's lacking.
> 
> But hey, what do I expect, right? You somehow know how or what a M777 looks like and point out that I am wrong? Not Likely LOL


Here is the full video.

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## zectech

It is no coincidence that the Trump family has been friends with the Chabad since Fred Trump donated land to the Chabad. The Trump family and Chabad go back 7 decades and perhaps more. Putin and Chabad are immensely close too.









What’s Behind Vladimir Putin’s Close Relationship With an Orthodox Jewish Sect?


Moscow’s Jewish Museum and Tolerance Center is an impressive place. Original artifacts, film clips, and interactive displays take visitors on a tour...




slate.com













The Happy-Go-Lucky Jewish Group That Connects Trump and Putin


Where Trump's real estate world meets a top religious ally of the Kremlin.




www.politico.com





Chabad and other jews admit to running the economy of Russia, according to Chabad Jews.

Putin, Trump, British conservatives have same exact partners in Russia. Namely, Chabad, Russian Oligarchs and Russian Mafia.









The Result of 20 Years of Putin: Russia as a Mafia State


Over the last week, Russia has gone through a political upheaval initiated by Vladimir Putin: proposal for constitutional reform, resignation of the government, appointment of a new cabinet. The pace and scale of these events led some commentators to call them a “constitutional coup.” However...




imrussia.org










Russian Mafia's Worldwide Grip


Operates In At Least 50 Countries



web.archive.org


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## Iron Shrappenel

Y


nang2 said:


> Here is the full video.


You can even see the towing hook in this one frame.... Talk about being delusional.....

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## Iron Shrappenel

Soldier35 said:


> Rumors are constantly being spread on the Internet about Russia's alleged huge losses of tanks in Ukraine, some individuals even claim that Russia's losses in Ukraine amount to thousands, so Russia removes old T-62 tanks from storage. Indeed, Russia removed the old tanks from storage and sent them to Ukraine, but not because of fictional huge losses, but because tanks are transferred to the militia, one example of this you will see later in the video, in addition, these tanks are convenient to use as long-term firing points or as mobile artillery, using them from a distance of 3-4 kilometers. Next, the video shows a detachment of Ossetian militia on Russian T-62 tanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian artillerymen destroyed American 155-mm M-777 howitzers in Ukraine during a counter-battery fight. It is reported that in general, 15 M777 howitzers were destroyed per day, most of which were in the area of the Druzhkovka railway station, the howitzers did not have time to fire a single shot.


But we have seen lower numbers of T-80s and T-90s.... Either they have been pulled back for a rainy.. or hail stormy day in that matter. Or Russia has realized that there is no actual difference in survivability of T62 or T80 unless the tanks have Active Protection Systems onboard.... Moreover there haven't been much tank vs tank action... So 62s are good enough for lobbing HE rounds towards houses and trenches...

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## Corax

nang2 said:


> Here is the full video.



Those are clearly M777 going BOOM! the pathetic attempt by the Uki Nazis to camouflage them didn't work. No wonder all the US NAZO lapdogs are so butt hurt here

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## Ali_Baba

*Slovakia presented the Ukrainian Air Force with a dozen MiG-29 Jets to help in the fight against Russian forces*









Ukraine: Zelensky hits jackpot with new fighter jet deal


VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY has been given 12 fighter jets in the latest blow to Vladimir Putin.




www.express.co.uk

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## RescueRanger

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Spoiler: GRAPHIC: Mercenaries from the West who got bloodied and wounded in Severodonetsk. It is absolutely brutal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537966448991035392


Bilateral tib/fib fracture - rotated pelvis shows classic sign of ruptured spleen or other internal bleeding- without an IV for TKO (to keep open) the solider in the video will quickly go into decompensated shock - sadly this guy will most likely be a KIA.

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## NotSure

So funny, how our Nato-NPCs here are in full denial mode: Noo, no destroyed M777 howitzer there, nothing to see here!

Full Video, M777 BBQ.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/vhk1jq

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## nang2

kingQamaR said:


> All tanks are having a hard time on Ukraine now
> 
> 
> 
> Russian tanks are severely outdated, as is the majority of Russia’s weaponry.
> 
> By contrast, Ukraine is using MUCH more advanced and up-to-date tanks, so even if they have less of them, they’re four times as effective on the battlefield. Tank warfare has always relied on remaining at the cutting edge of technology, which was demonstrated in WWII.
> 
> Somewhere along the line, Russia forgot this, and they’re now paying the price


I don't know where you get this "MUCH more advanced" idea. I don't see much Ukrainian tank actions. They are mostly doing positional defense where artillery does the most of the work.

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## kingQamaR

nang2 said:


> I don't know where you get this "MUCH more advanced" idea. I don't see much Ukrainian tank actions. They are mostly doing positional defense where artillery does the most of the work.



The Ukrainians kept their tanks hidden away and opted to use a guerrilla war using small squads on infantry armed with the 22,000 anti tank weapons supplied by the West. They are accurate, have a long range and can be carried around easily

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## Paul2

F-22Raptor said:


> The problem for the Russians is they've already lost a third of their armored force. 40%-50%+ losses by end of year or early next year is possible. Thats not sustainable for them. Their armor losses are huge.



3 biggest losses:

Tiger's teeth - the glorious Russian tank force. Best hardware gone. More than half of all post 1991 modernised tanks
PGM stock - 60%-70% exhausted. Looks like only the strategic reserve for cruise missiles is left
Elite infantry - 60%-70% loss of entire para combat troops, other commando units
They will not invade anybody for a long time. The Kazakhstan's president went to troll Putin on his economic forum fully knowing this. He has Chinese rail hostage, Turkish boots, Bayarkars, and a new airforce deal through the new defence deal with Turkey. Plus, everybody in KZ knows now that he gave a knock on the door to Americans.

He is old enough to be a CPSU insider, and he had a way higher rank in CPSU than Putin (who had none at all.) So he knows how a soviet style military works, and the real condition of Russian military probably better than Putin himself.

Takayev is no angel at all, but he is more experienced as a politician. Last 3 decade of Kazakhstan's political history was all about them tricking Russians, and then Chinese for giant handouts, and then coming out dry out of the water. They made money off Western MNC's for years as well, and, now, they are selling a backdoor to Russian economy to them, and it seems not without success. The hotel is packed with Westerners like it never ever been in the last few years.

He knows, in case of anything, he just need to destroy the infrastructure, retreat south, and let the air defence, tons of young conscripts, and the desert do its job.

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## nang2

kingQamaR said:


> The Ukrainians kept their tanks hidden away and opted to use a guerrilla war using small squads on infantry armed with the 22,000 anti tank weapons supplied by the West. They are accurate, have a long range and can be carried around easily


OK. What about your source of "MUCH more advanced"?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Iron Shrappenel said:


> Haven't seen many KA-52s using precision munition or the correct term would be as much as the should use... Moreover we have seen them firing salvo upon salvo of missiles in a general direction which I'm sure are less accurate than a MLRS ....



MRLS has area attack. It basically obliterates a whole area killing everything in it. If those were say a bunch of infantry they be all dead. If those were a gun line they be all dead, along with all the ammo too.



kingQamaR said:


> The Ukrainians kept their tanks hidden away and opted to use a guerrilla war using small squads on infantry armed with the 22,000 anti tank weapons supplied by the West. They are accurate, have a long range and can be carried around easily



It sounds like a romantic novel, but try walk around in the hot sun for 7 hours and see what happens to your legs and feet. And that's not carrying around a 50 pounds Javelin around. Talk is cheap. Action is another thing all together. You are just a keyboard warrior. Nothing more.



Ali_Baba said:


> *Slovakia presented the Ukrainian Air Force with a dozen MiG-29 Jets to help in the fight against Russian forces*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine: Zelensky hits jackpot with new fighter jet deal
> 
> 
> VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY has been given 12 fighter jets in the latest blow to Vladimir Putin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.express.co.uk



MiG-29 from the 80s is easy target for Su-35 and Su-57. It's 1 generation below Su-35, 2 generations below Su-57. It's a one way ticket suicide mission.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539318590402347010

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> MRLS has area attack. It basically obliterates a whole area killing everything in it. If those were say a bunch of infantry they be all dead. If those were a gun line they be all dead, along with all the ammo too.
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds like a romantic novel, but try walk around in the hot sun for 7 hours and see what happens to your legs and feet. And that's not carrying around a 50 pounds Javelin around. Talk is cheap. Action is another thing all together. *You are just a keyboard warrior. Nothing more.*
> 
> 
> 
> MiG-29 from the 80s is easy target for Su-35 and Su-57. It's 1 generation below Su-35, 2 generations below Su-57. It's a one way ticket suicide mission.


Take a good look in the mirror, will you? Youre glorifying anything russian like a maniac.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Take a good look in the mirror, will you? Youre glorifying anything russian like a maniac.



Don't be ridiculous. Do not be on the wrong side of history. Those who terrorize civilians will not have a happy ending. I'm talking about the Kiev regime. They will pay for their actions. 1.4 billion Chinese will make sure of that.

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## nang2

MeFishToo said:


> Take a good look in the mirror, will you? Youre glorifying anything russian like a maniac.


He serves the purpose of balancing those who demonizes anything russian like a maniac.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

nang2 said:


> He serves the purpose of balancing those who demonizes anything russian like a maniac.



I stand on the right side of history. I stand on morale high ground.



Paul2 said:


> 3 biggest losses:
> 
> Tiger's teeth - the glorious Russian tank force. Best hardware gone. More than half of all post 1991 modernised tanks
> PGM stock - 60%-70% exhausted. Looks like only the strategic reserve for cruise missiles is left
> Elite infantry - 60%-70% loss of entire para combat troops, other commando units
> They will not invade anybody for a long time. The Kazakhstan's president went to troll Putin on his economic forum fully knowing this. He has Chinese rail hostage, Turkish boots, Bayarkars, and a new airforce deal through the new defence deal with Turkey. Plus, everybody in KZ knows now that he gave a knock on the door to Americans.
> 
> He is old enough to be a CPSU insider, and he had a way higher rank in CPSU than Putin (who had none at all.) So he knows how a soviet style military works, and the real condition of Russian military probably better than Putin himself.
> 
> Takayev is no angel at all, but he is more experienced as a politician. Last 3 decade of Kazakhstan's political history was all about them tricking Russians, and then Chinese for giant handouts, and then coming out dry out of the water. They made money off Western MNC's for years as well, and, now, they are selling a backdoor to Russian economy to them, and it seems not without success. The hotel is packed with Westerners like it never ever been in the last few years.
> 
> He knows, in case of anything, he just need to destroy the infrastructure, retreat south, and let the air defence, tons of young conscripts, and the desert do its job.



Kazakhstan is land locked without a single America friendly neighbor. Americans cannot enter Kazakhstan even if they wanted to.

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Don't be ridiculous. Do not be on the wrong side of history. Those who terrorize civilians will not have a happy ending. I'm talking about the Kiev regime. They will pay for their actions. 1.4 billion Chinese will make sure of that.


I guess youre saying Russia is not going to defeat Ukraine, since China is now going to make sure that Kiev is going to pay for those made up atrocities?


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> I guess youre saying Russia is not going to defeat Ukraine, since China is now going to make sure that Kiev is going to pay for those made up atrocities?



Chinese have an old tradition. And that is punishing people who terrorize civilians. In this case, that is the Kiev regime, which has been shelling Donbas civilians after ousting Yanukovych who was from Donbas.

You can think of Chinese as the Daredevil or the Justice League or Avengers.


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## MeFishToo

nang2 said:


> He serves the purpose of balancing those who demonizes anything russian like a maniac.


He is all over this thread posting every single russian propaganda story, while claiming Iskander missiles are raining down on ukrainian material all over Ukraine and russian attack helicopters destroy those lucky enough to survive. He is living in a parallel universe or he is a russian bot.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

M-777 getting destroyed is good news for Pakistan as Indian ones will meet the same fate.

RIP Indian M-777

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## nang2

MeFishToo said:


> I guess youre saying Russia is not going to defeat Ukraine, since China is now going to make sure that Kiev is going to pay for those made up atrocities?


Made up or not, everyone makes his own judgement.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> He is all over this thread posting every single russian propaganda story, while claiming Iskander missiles are raining down on ukrainian material all over Ukraine and russian attack helicopters destroy those lucky enough to survive. He is living in a parallel universe or he is a russian bot.



I stand on the side that protects civilians from psychopaths. That is all.

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Chinese have an old tradition. And that is punishing people who terrorize civilians. In this case, that is the Kiev regime, which has been shelling Donbas civilians after ousting Yanukovych who was from Donbas.
> 
> You can think of Chinese as the Daredevil or the Justice League or Avengers.

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## MeFishToo

nang2 said:


> Made up or not, everyone makes his own judgement.


Patrick Lancaster? You couldnt find anything better than a russian backed conspiracy theorist?

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## Paul2

Ukrainians moved in into the first major settlement in the no man's land in between Mikolayv, and Khesan - Kyselivka.

Previously they made only brief incursions for the fear of Russian artillery. It seems Russians have finally ran out of it there.

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## Dalit

MeFishToo said:


> View attachment 855644

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## MeFishToo

Dalit said:


> View attachment 855648


?

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## zectech

The others in Russia that control the Russian economy are the Russian Mafia. Media in the west expose that Russia is a Russian mafia state over and over again.









The Result of 20 Years of Putin: Russia as a Mafia State


Over the last week, Russia has gone through a political upheaval initiated by Vladimir Putin: proposal for constitutional reform, resignation of the government, appointment of a new cabinet. The pace and scale of these events led some commentators to call them a “constitutional coup.” However...




imrussia.org













Putin Welcomes the Return of the Russian Mafia


Putin appears to be courting the notion of Russia as "a superpower of crime," not as a threat or an embarrassment but a potential opportunity.




www.newsweek.com













Putin's Russia: dictator syndrome and the rise of a 'mafia state' – video


Guardian correspondent Luke Harding chronicles some of the defining moments in Putin's early presidency that helped turn Russia into a 'mafia state'




www.theguardian.com










Russian Mafia's Worldwide Grip


Operates In At Least 50 Countries



web.archive.org





_CBS NEWS : Under pressure from the Nixon administration, Moscow agreed to allow more Soviet Jews to emigrate. But in a move copied years later by Fidel Castro, the Soviets opened prison doors in the gulag and thousands of hard-core criminals left for the United States. (These Soviet criminals became the Russian Mafia)_

Putin is the boss of mafia bosses. The Russian mafia fears Putin. The Russian mafia does not do hits on Putin, Putin is the boss to kill opponents in Russia, including Oligarchs and mafias that are not 100% loyal to Putin and the criminal empire of Putin that the media calls "Russia".

Here is what the Russian mafia controls:

_Although Russian President Vladimir Putin brought an end to the mob violence and carnage that plagued post-Soviet Russia, he didn’t destroy the (Russian mafia) gangs moreso than he elevated one of them to a position of prominent power in the Russian government. The Russian mafia is known to control the oil and gas industry in Russia, and has its members at the top echelons of the government bureaucracy. Elected representatives to the Russian Duma don’t get very far without approval of the mob, and journalists who get a little too curious often end up dead in mysterious car accidents or apartment explosions.
In 2008 the CIA told the State Department that Russia was the world’s first “militarized Crime-Syndicate State”. From hiding in the shadows of the Gulag to running one of the 10 most powerful countries in the world, the (Russian mafia) has really grown!_









Ex-Rosneft boss Eduard Khudainatov reportedly tied to mafia | DW | 25.08.2017


Former German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder is controversially set to join the board of Russian oil and gas company Rosneft. Now a Russian broadcaster believes it has found dubious ties between Rosneft and the mafia.




www.dw.com













John McCain Calls Russia ‘A Gas Station Run by a Mafia That Is Masquerading as a Country’ (Video)


Sen. John McCain is no fan of Vladimir Putin, and based on the recent sanctioning of the senator by the Russian president, the feeling is mutual.




www.yahoo.com













5 Things You Didn’t Know About The Russian Mafia | Dostoyevsky Reimagined: Blogs


The Russian mafia has been around since the time of the Czars, but didn’t gain international infamy until after the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991, when different mobs vied for control of Russia and brought their clashes to the streets of America. With the disappearance of our screenwriter...



dostoevsky-bts.com





You do know why the Russian mafia and other criminals and "Putin loyalists" run the lucrative oil and gas industry. Because of Project Hammer of the early 1990s. There has to be criminals/"loyalist" oligarchs running the oil and gas industry or else the cat gets let out of the bag on project hammer.

The offices that were investigating the security certificates on the ownership of Russian oil and gas industry were hit by airplanes. The Bush cia hides that it controls Putin, Trump, Russian oil and gas, the dollar implosion plan to a global bitcoin currency and Washington. That is the global deception that the Bush cia does not exist.

Here is the Putin-esque mafia state that Trump wants to usher in North America, as Putin tries to make Europe a fiefdom of Russian criminals.


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## Corax

The Russians sure have made things difficult for themselves. Instead of using their natural resources wealth to improve and modernise their armed forces, they've been too busy in corruption, with the oligarchs squandering the wealth of the country on luxury living, yachts and football clubs. I've met quite a few obnoxious Russians in my time, and in a way I'm glad they're being taken down a pretty peg or two with the sanctions and a spanking in Ukraine. Their hubris is their weakness.


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## Dalit

MeFishToo said:


> ?



That is Israelis sitting on a couch eating popcorn whilst their army bombs Palestinians. Outraged?

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## KendoKhan

Estonia has accused Russia of violating its airspace for the first time by helicopter, in a highly provocative move ahead of a major NATO summit.









Estonia says Russia has violated its airspace for first time by helicopter in highly provocative move


The Baltic state, a member of the NATO alliance, also said ongoing Russian military exercises are simulating missile strikes against its country daily.




news.sky.com


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## MeFishToo

Dalit said:


> That is Israelis sitting on a couch eating popcorn whilst their army bombs Palestinians. Outraged?


Hows that even related to my post adressing Tai Hai Chen?

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## Dalit

MeFishToo said:


> Hows that even related to my post adressing Tai Hai Chen?



How is your post related to this topic?

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## MeFishToo

Dalit said:


> How is your post related to this topic?


You just felt like dragging the Israel-Palestinian conflict into my chat with Tai Hai Chen about China being the protectors of civilians… Great. Now what?


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## Dalit

MeFishToo said:


> You just felt like dragging the Israel-Palestinian conflict into my chat with Tai Hai Chen about China being the protectors of civilians… Great. Now what?



Keep your pain to yourself and get back in line. Everyone here has one or the other form of pain. If you come on this forum to seek sympathy for your cause you ain't getting none. We cannot relate to your pain just like you cannot relate to ours.

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## MeFishToo

Dalit said:


> Keep your pain to yourself and get back in line. Everyone here has one or the other form of pain.


You just do that. You dont have read everything here. Just ignore what you dont find interesting.

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## Dalit

MeFishToo said:


> You just do that. You dont have read everything here. Just ignore what you dont find interesting.



All I am saying is don't get sentimental and seek empathy. It is too late for that. The vast portion of the world doesn't feel nor share the same pain that you feel for Ukraine. Like you have never felt any pain and empathy for other causes. This topic is strictly informative for most members. We come here to learn what is taking place. Nothing more nothing less. I suggest you do the same instead of posting pictures.

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## zectech

MeFishToo said:


> Hows that even related to my post adressing



"Indians r*pe tourist. That means others get to do the same." This is the "logic" of Putinites.

"Because Palestinians! Bomb Kiev!"

"Trump has white skin. Make the whitey suffer!"

These trolls are 100% pawns of Trump who wants to destroy the EU.









Why Trump and his team want to wipe out the EU | Natalie Nougayrède


Mike Pompeo’s wooing of eastern Europe is part of a wider ideological battle, says Guardian columnist Natalie Nougayrède




www.theguardian.com





They are even stupider than the Trumptards in the US who believe Trump is fighting the deepstate of cia Pompeo.

The WEF is not the deepstate, neo-liberalism is not the deepstate, globalism is not the deepstate. Same as China and Japan are not the deepstate. These are cold war hold overs that were carrots to the countries to prevent the globe from siding with the Soviets. Now that Russia is owned by Trump and company, the deepstate want a recall on the success of the EU, recall on the independence on the EU. Trump and Putin are a recall on globalism, trade, success in China and Europe,









EU official urges Trump, Putin not to destroy global order


European Council President Donald Tusk has urged President Donald Trump, Russian President Vladimir Putin and China to work with Europe to avoid trade wars and prevent conflict and chaos.




www.foxbusiness.com





What Trump wanted to do to China is what Trump/Putin want to do to the EU.









"I think the European Union is a foe," Trump says ahead of Putin meeting in Helsinki


"I think the European Union is a foe, what they do to us in trade. Now, you wouldn't think of the European Union, but they're a foe," President Trump tells CBS News




www.cbsnews.com


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## Hassan Al-Somal

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Personally, I do not know why you are not banned since You have violated Forum Rules multiple times. Perhaps mods are less strict than the rules indicated.
> They just delete your violating posts.
> 
> 
> View attachment 855330




I add a spoiler tag to all of the graphic posts and even make it very clear that it is "GRAPHIC". Besides, there are others who posts dead Russian soldiers and brag about it, while calling them all names in the book. Therefore, your faux outrage is laughable. 

I don't get banned because I follow the rules. I just report the news.

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## MeFishToo

KendoKhan said:


> Estonia has accused Russia of violating its airspace for the first time by helicopter, in a highly provocative move ahead of a major NATO summit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Estonia says Russia has violated its airspace for first time by helicopter in highly provocative move
> 
> 
> The Baltic state, a member of the NATO alliance, also said ongoing Russian military exercises are simulating missile strikes against its country daily.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.sky.com


Russian warships violated danish waters in the Baltic Sea two times 6 days ago near the island Bornholm. A few weeks ago, US and danish military made exercises landing HIMARS on the island.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539354332465975298

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539352217592922113

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## MeFishToo

Dalit said:


> All I am saying is don't get sentimental and seek empathy. It is too late for that. The vast portion of the world doesn't feel nor share the same pain that you feel for Ukraine. Like you have never felt any pain and empathy for other causes. This topic is strictly informative for most members. We come here to learn what is taking place. Nothing more nothing less. I suggest you do the same instead of posting pictures.


It was a reply to his claim about China. 
Im not seeking any sympathy. And definitely not from you. You posting that picture tells me everything I need to know about you.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539379921033764867


MeFishToo said:


> It was a reply to his claim about China.
> Im not seeking any sympathy. And definitely not from you. You posting that picture tells me everything I need to know about you.



There's a good Western saying. One man's hero is another man's terrorist. A Tian An Men protester is a hero from America's perspective, a terrorist from China's perspective. Likewise, an Occupy Wall Street protester is a hero from China's perspective, a terrorist from America's perspective.

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> There's a good Western saying. One man's hero is another man's terrorist. A Tian An Men protester is a hero from America's perspective, a terrorist from China's perspective. Likewise, an Occupy Wall Street protester is a hero from China's perspective, a terrorist from America's perspective.


Sure, only difference is the Occupy Wall Street protester survived to tell about it. The “chineese avengers“ made sure the protesters and their history disapeared.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539378604794077186


MeFishToo said:


> Sure, only difference is the Occupy Wall Street protester survived to tell about it. The “chineese avengers“ made sure the protesters and their history disapeared.



The Chinese protesters were charged with being traitors of the Chinese nation and consequently they were publicly hang.

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> The Chinese protesters were charged with being traitors of the Chinese nation and consequently they were publicly hang.


Good job by the Avengers. Mustve been difficult to hang all those students being shot and run over by tanks.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539378052328824833


MeFishToo said:


> Good job by the Avengers. Mustve been difficult to hang all those students being shot and run over by tanks.



China is a fascist country, not a laid back hogwash Western country. China has military parades. In Chinese schools every morning there is patriotic song playing on loudspeaker while children do morning exercise outside wearing uniform and red scarf. In a fascist country like China there is no mercy for traitors. On the other hand, a Western country these days is like this:

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539378052328824833
> 
> 
> China is a fascist country, not a laid back hogwash Western country. China has military parades. In Chinese schools every morning there is patriotic song playing on loudspeaker while children do morning exercise outside wearing uniform and red scarf. In a fascist country like China there is no mercy for traitors. On the other hand, a Western country these days is like this:


I feel sorry for you, all trapped in the civilized west where might isnt always right. But atleast you get to voice your opinion on how great fascist China and Russia is. Must have gotten you through the hard times living in Canada.


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## Corax

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539354332465975298
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539352217592922113



Astonishing that even now the Russians still haven't been able to put Ukrainian airfields out of action.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Corax said:


> Astonishing that even now the Russians still haven't been able to put Ukrainian airfields out of action.



Russians are humane. They typically don't demolish infrastructure which leads to the deaths of millions of civilians. Can't say the same about Americans. The dams / bridges on the Dnipr river still stand which enables Ukrainians from western Ukraine to travel to their deaths in Donbas.

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## Paul2

Corax said:


> Astonishing that even now the Russians still haven't been able to put Ukrainian airfields out of action.



They been road basing for months


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539353946191536130

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## nang2

MeFishToo said:


> Patrick Lancaster? You couldnt find anything better than a russian backed conspiracy theorist?


Watch the video. You don't have to listen to what he says.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539326129294778368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539220600157347842

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539352217592922113

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539304460471648258

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Kherson is back under Ukrainian control. 

Crimea is next.

Russia is running out of soldiers and weapons while Ukraine is winning and getting stonger with each passing day.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539225560588734466

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## jhungary

Corax said:


> Prove that you "was there". And if you can, how come you ran away like a chicken?!    How come you're still not there "killing Russians"?


Not there to play tourist, would you be dumb enough to take picture so people can geolocate you and hit those camp?

Again, I don't say that so you can believe me, honestly I don't really care what you think.

As for fighting, this ain't my war, I am not Ukrainian, and as long as what I teach them and kill Russian, I don't really care.



nang2 said:


> Here is the full video.


I have already said why this is not M777, not going to repeat again.

But I will part with this convo with this. I probably can make a video saying I have destroyed an Abrams tank very easily when I didn't And you are talking about a state with probably unlimited resources to do it. And this is not the first time they said something happened "With video evidence" and it did not.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Crimea will be back under Ukranian control in the next few days


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539130397790986240
Russians are running scared.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538860486439092226

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 21​Jun 21, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF
*
Mason Clark, Kateryna Stepanenko, George Barros, and Grace Mappes
June 21, 7:45 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
The Kremlin recently replaced the commander of the Russian Airborne (VDV) forces and may be in the process of radically reshuffling the command structure of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, indicating a possible purge of senior officers blamed for failures in Ukraine. *Several Russian outlets confirmed that the current Chief of Staff of the Central Military District, Colonel-General Mikhail Teplinsky, will replace the current Commander of the Russian Airborne Forces, Colonel-General Andrey Serdyukov.[1] Ukrainian sources previously reported on June 17 that the Kremlin fired Serdyukov for poor performance during the invasion and high casualties among paratroopers, but ISW could not confirm this reporting at the time.[2] Several sources are additionally reporting contradictory claims about replacements for the current Southern Military District Commander—and overall commander of the Russian invasion of Ukraine–Army General Alexander Dvornikov:

Russian reserve officer Oleg Marzoev claimed on June 21 that Russian military officials will soon appoint General of the Army Sergey Surovikin, the current commander of the Russian Aerospace Forces, as commander of the Southern Military District (SMD), effectively replacing current SMD Commander Alexander Dvornikov.[3]
Investigative journalism group Bellingcat previously reported on June 17 that Russian President Vladimir Putin planned to replace Dvornikov as the commander of the invasion of Ukraine following Dvornikov’s excessive drinking and lack of trust among Russian forces.[4]
Ukraine’s Conflict Intelligence Team (CIT) reported on June 19 that Putin replaced Dvornikov as the commander of the Ukrainian operation with Colonel-General Gennady Zhidko, the head of the Military-Political Directorate of the Russian Armed Forces.[5]
An unofficial but widely followed Russian Airborne Troops social media page claimed that Dvornikov has been promoted and that Serdyukov will take his position within the SMD. This claim is highly unlikely to be true given that pro-Kremlin sources announced Serdyukov’s retirement.[6]
ISW cannot independently verify these reports and will continue to monitor the situation for corroboration. However, if these varied reports are all accurate, former Aerospace Forces Commander Surovikin has replaced Dvornikov (who may have been forced to retire) as commander of the Southern Military District, but Zhidko has been appointed commander of Russian operations in Ukraine, despite not directly commanding Russian combat troops in his permanent role. Zhidko currently directs the body of the Russian Ministry of Defense responsible for maintaining morale and ideological control within the Russian military, rather than commanding a military district. As ISW previously reported, Southern Military District Commander Dvornikov was the natural choice to command Russia’s operations in Ukraine following Russia’s loss in the Battle of Kyiv, as the majority of Russian offensive operations are occurring within the Southern Military District’s area of responsibility. The appointment of a separate commander over the Southern Military District, and the replacement of the commander of the SMD in the middle of major combat operations, is a drastic step that would speak to severe crises within the Russian high command, and possibly a purge by the Kremlin.* Such drastic rotations within the Russian military, if true, are not actions taken by a force on the verge of a major success and indicate ongoing dysfunction in the Kremlin’s conduct of the war.
Russian forces are successfully advancing toward Lysychansk from the south rather than making an opposed river crossing from Severodonetsk, threatening Ukrainian defenses in the area.* ISW previously forecasted that Russian forces would seek to attack toward Lysychansk from the south to negate the defensive advantage that the Siverskyi Donets River would grant Ukrainian defenders opposing a direct assault from Severodonetsk. Russian forces appear to be securing such an advance and will likely attack the outskirts of Lysychansk within the coming week. *This Russian advance is a clear setback for Ukrainian defenses in the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area, but Russian forces will likely require further protracted battles with Ukrainian forces similar to the block-by-block fighting seen in Mariupol and Severodonetsk in order to capture Lysychansk.
The Kremlin is failing to deter the family members of sailors that survived the sinking of the Moskva from issuing an appeal against the deployment of surviving conscripts to the war in Ukraine as of June 20.[7] *Russian opposition outlet _Novaya Gazeta_ published an appeal from the parents of the surviving 49 conscript crewmembers of the _Moskva_, demanding that the Military Prosecutor’s Office in Sevastopol, the Committee of Soldier’s Mothers, and the Human Rights Commissioner immediately terminate the crewmembers’ deployment. The appeal states that Russian commanders did not send the surviving conscripts home from their deployment following the sinking of _Moskva _and that they will be recommitted to hostilities on June 30. The appeal noted that the survivors refuse to participate in further assignments due to psychological distress and are currently stationed on the old ship _Ladnyi, _which the appeal claims is unfit for combat. The Ukrainian Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) previously reported that Russian forces have threatened the families of _Moskva_ sailors with criminal prosecution and nullification of any financial benefits to prevent them from speaking out against Russian operations.[8]
*Russian forces continue to face force generation challenges and are committing unprepared contract servicemen to the invasion of Ukraine. *The BBC’s Russian service reported on June 20 that new Russian recruits receive only 3 to 7 days of training before being sent to “the most active sectors of the front.”[9] The BBC also reported that volunteers within the conventional Russian military, Rosgvardia units, and Wagner Group mercenaries have become Russia’s main assault force, as opposed to full conventional military units. ISW has previously assessed that Russian units in eastern Ukraine are suffering from poor complements of infantry, slowing their ability to seize urban terrain. The Russian military is offering substantial financial incentives to secure additional recruits with increasing disregard for their age, health, criminal records, and other established service qualifications. The Ukrainian General Staff reported on June 21 that Russian Airborne (VDV) units are forced to recruit reserve officers for short-term three-month contracts due to significant officer losses, and the BBC reported that the Russian Ministry of Defense is offering to pay off the loans and debts of volunteers to entice recruits.[10]
*Key Takeaways*

*The Kremlin recently replaced the commander of the Russian Airborne (VDV) forces and may have fired the commander of the Southern Military District and appointed a new overall commander of Russian forces in Ukraine, indicating ongoing dysfunction in the Kremlin’s conduct of the war.*
*Russian forces conducted several successful advances in settlements southeast of Severodonetsk on June 21 and may be able to threaten Lysychansk in the coming days while avoiding a difficult opposed crossing of the Siverskyi Donets River.*
*Russian forces continued to launch assaults on settlements along the T1302 Lysychansk-Bakhmut highway to interdict Ukrainian ground lines of communications (GLOCs).*
*Russian operations along the Izyum-Slovyansk axis are increasingly stalled as Russian forces prioritize operations around Severodonetsk.*
*Russian forces likely recaptured the eastern bank of the Inhulets River from the Ukrainian bridgehead situated near the Kherson-Mykolaiv Oblast border.*
*Ukrainian forces reportedly struck Russian positions on Snake Island in the Black Sea, likely to destroy Russian fortifications and equipment on the island, but ISW cannot confirm competing Ukrainian and Russian claims of the results of the attack.*
*Russian occupation authorities are continuing to face challenges recruiting local collaborators and are likely relying on Russian government personnel to consolidate their societal control of occupied Ukrainian territories.*
*

*
*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces conducted several successful advances in settlements southeast of Severodonetsk on June 21 and may be able to threaten Lysychansk in the coming days while avoiding a difficult opposed crossing of the Siverskyi Donets River. The Ukrainian General Staff confirmed that Russian forces seized Pidlisne, Myrna Dolyna, and Ustynivka and stated they captured portions of Bila Hora, all towns situated on the western Siverskyi Donets Riverbank within 10 km of the southern outskirts of Lysychansk.[11] Geolocated footage from June 20 indicates Russian forces captured terrain in contested Toshkivka, just east of the T1303 Lysychansk-Hirske highway.[12] Russian forces also conducted a partially successful attack against Hirske, and will likely attempt to carry out a shallow encirclement around Zolote.[13] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian assaults on Severodonetsk’s southeastern outskirts of Syrotyne and Voronove, likely to interdict Russian advances to the eastern bank of Siverskyi Donets River.[14] Ukrainian and Russian sources reported that fighting is still ongoing at the Azot Chemical Plant in Severodonetsk as of June 21.[15]



Russian forces continued to launch assaults on settlements along the T1302 Lysychansk-Bakhmut highway to interdict Ukrainian ground lines of communications (GLOCs). Russian forces attacked Mykolaivka and seized Vrubivka, both adjacent to the T1302 highway.[16] Russian forces also launched ground assaults against Vershina and Semyhirya, approximately 12 km and 17 km south of Bakhmut. Russian forces will still need to seize the T1302 to cut off Ukrainian GLOCs running through Siversk to disrupt Ukrainian GLOCs to Lysychansk. The Ukrainian General Staff also reported that Russian forces consolidated battalion tactical groups (BTGs) from the 5th Combined Arms Army and withdrew units of the 1st Separate Motorized Rifle Brigade of the 1st Army Corps (the armed forces of the Donetsk People‘s Republic) to restore their combat capabilities, indicating that Russian forces are experiencing significant losses in ongoing operations in Luhansk Oblast.[17]
Russian operations along the Izyum-Slovyansk axis are increasingly stalled as Russian forces prioritize operations around Severodonetsk. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces launched unsuccessful ground assaults against Bohorodychne and Dolyna (north of Slovyansk) and did not attempt to conduct offensive operations in the Lyman area.[18] Ukraine’s Strategic Communications Directorate reported that Russian forces are redeploying several army-level headquarters units from frontlines in the Izyum and Lyman areas to Svatove and Horoshe, just 30-40 km east of Severodonetsk and Popasna.[19] The redeployment of these headquarters units may further complicate Russian logistics routes and troop management in Izyum and Lyman and indicates that these units may be further shifting to the Severodonetsk axis. Satellite imagery from June 19 also showed that Russian forces constructed a pontoon bridge in Kupyansk, likely to improve supply routes to Svatove.[20] ISW previously reported on June 17 that Russian forces are deploying additional equipment via GLOCs in Svatove to support offensive operations in the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area.[21]



*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces continued to focus on hindering Ukrainian counteroffensives southeast and northeast of Kharkiv City. Russian forces reportedly continued to shell settlements around Kharkiv City to impede Ukrainian advances toward the Russian forces operating in Izyum and the international border.[22] Geolocated combat footage showed local fighting near Yuchenkove, approximately 61 km southeast of Kharkiv City, though neither Russian nor Ukrainian forces conducted any major attacks.[23]



*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces likely recaptured the eastern bank of the Inhulets River from the Ukrainian bridgehead situated near the Kherson-Mykolaiv Oblast border. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces fired on Ukrainian positions on the western bank of the Inhulets River, likely indicating that Ukrainian forces lost access to the bridgehead on the eastern riverbank, which they had occupied since May 28.[24] Geolocated footage of Ukrainian forces striking Russian forces in Andriivka (situated east of the Inhulets River) also indicates that Russian forces pushed Ukrainian forces west of the river.[25] Russian forces continued to build long-term firing positions, conduct air reconnaissance, and shell settlements on the Kherson-Mykolaiv and Kherson-Dnipropetrovsk Oblast borders on June 21.[26]
Ukrainian forces reportedly struck Russian positions on Snake Island in the Black Sea, likely to destroy Russian fortifications and equipment on the island. Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported that Ukrainian forces are conducting an ongoing concentrated attack on Snake Island and inflicted unspecified damage on the Russian garrison as of June 21.[27] The Russian Defense Ministry claimed that Russian air-defense systems repelled an attack against the island by more than 15 Ukrainian drones on June 20.[28] Russian officials also claimed that Ukrainian drones struck gas production platforms near Crimea after Russian forces defeated the Ukrainian attempt to capture Snake Island.[29] ISW is unable to independently confirm either claim and will continue to monitor the situation as it unfolds. The UK Defense Ministry also stated that Ukrainian attacks on Russian ships off Odesa shores have “neutralized” Russia’s ability to control the sea and derailed Russian plans to block Odesa Oblast from the Black Sea.[30]



*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian occupation authorities are continuing ad-hoc annexation policies in Donbas and southern Ukraine. The deputy head of the Russian Kherson Oblast Military-Civil Administration, Kirill Stremousov, made another announcement stating that Russian-occupied Kherson Oblast may conduct a referendum to join Russia in the fall of 2022.[31] Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) Head Denis Pushilin previously claimed that the DNR will hold a referendum to unite with Russia after the end of the “special military operation” in Ukraine, which he hopes will end by winter 2022—another indicator that the Kremlin and its proxies expect the war to protract.[32] It is unclear when or if the Kremlin will pursue a full annexation of Donbas and occupied southern Ukrainian territories, but Russian occupation authorities continue to produce disjointed timeframes and preconditions for referendums. The DNR Territorial Defense Staff also reported that the DNR added Lomakyne, just east of Mariupol, to the “zone of DNR responsibility.” It remains unclear whether or not the DNR is responsible for all newly occupied settlements.[33]
Russian occupation authorities are continuing to face challenges recruiting local collaborators and are likely relying on Russian government personnel to consolidate their societal control. Enerhodar Mayor Dmytro Orlov noted that many young people are fleeing Enerhodar and are refusing to cooperate with Russian occupation forces.[34] Orlov reported that Russian forces have mistreated the remaining employees of the Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant who stayed back in the city to minimize the risks of a nuclear emergency.[35] Ukrainian Telegram channel MariupolNow noted the arrival of a large convoy of Russian cars and busses near Mariupol, possibly carrying Russian non-military personnel.[36] Russian occupation authorities installed Russian television networks in Kherson Oblast and are continuing to restore railways in Mariupol despite being unable to consolidate societal control in newly occupied territories.[37]

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

jhungary said:


> have already said why this is not M777, not going to repeat again.



There is no shame in accepting the truth.

Pak Army will deliver the same to the Indian M777.

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## jhungary

Iron Shrappenel said:


> Y
> 
> You can even see the towing hook in this one frame.... Talk about being delusional.....


Sure, and you know 

Again, map the parts with this still image I captured form the video to a specific M777 parts?

















And Russia have satellite, did they? Why not they task a satellite and photo the wreckage for battlefield damage assessment? Instead of that grainy drone image??

Also, the Russian claim of how they come to destroy those "M777" are also suspicious. According to newsweek the claim is the Ukrainian is trying to retake Snake Island (itself is a big WTF, it's a small island, virtually undefendable, even if they can take it back, by Ukraine as long as Russian Navy blockading Odessa, unless daily naval bombardment is what the Ukrainian fancy over the next 3 to 6 months)

You don't send static artillery to support a landing of an islands. How are you supposed to do it? That was an island, in the middle of the sea around 30 km away from any land. And putting artillery piece in Kubansky Island (The location this supposed to happen) is absurd, sure, put a system that cannot be put up easily on an island that you cannot move easily. 

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-says-it-destroyed-equipment-sent-ukraine-us-european-allies-1717859 



Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> There is no shame in accepting the truth.
> 
> Pak Army will deliver the same to the Indian M777.


Well, I did admit that OSINT spotted 4 M777 Wreck, I am just saying this is not one of them.

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## _Nabil_

@jhungary 

Giving a negative rating for a joke ?? 
Seriously I thought you were a decent guy, even if I don't share your views ....

Yesterday was @jamahir, now a joke ..... 🤔

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## jhungary

_Nabil_ said:


> @jhungary
> 
> Giving a negative rating for a joke ??
> Seriously I thought you were a decent guy, even if I don't share your views ....
> 
> Yesterday was @jamahir, now a joke ..... 🤔
> 
> 
> View attachment 855726


It's stop being a joke when they are calling you directly on it. When they single you or anyone else out specifically, that stop being a joke, that become a personal insult.

And if I tell you you are a carpet worshipper (akin to how you Muslim pray) would you see that as a joke and laugh it off?? Not Muslim in general, but* YOU*. *YOU* are a carpet worshipper. Do *YOU* find that funny??

I mean I would not go around and make joke like that, if this is in a pub, you make joke like this is looking for a fight. You probably will end up getting more than a negative rating. A joke is "American are dumb" not "You are dumb"

Get it?

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Germany getting ready to reclaim Kaliningrad from Russia.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538865697442373632


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539368244632555522

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## ckf

_Nabil_ said:


> @jhungary
> 
> Giving a negative rating for a joke ??
> Seriously I thought you were a decent guy, even if I don't share your views ....
> 
> Yesterday was @jamahir, now a joke ..... 🤔
> 
> 
> View attachment 855726


Too many WASP zionist liberals wannabes here. All they do is puke the same narrative all day. Apparently white banana trash is not appreciated enough on this forum. it's okay to trash everyone except wasp zionist liberal wannabes.

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## jhungary

ckf said:


> Too many WASP zionist liberals here. All they do is puke the same narrative all day. Apparently white banana trash is not appreciated enough on this forum.


lol, yeah white banana trash is not appreciated enough on this forum, but leecher takes the day eh??

@LeGenD @waz can any of you come down and shut down these "Banana" "Psychopath" talk. 

Thanks

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## The SC

Footage of the destruction and burning of American howitzers







The Russian forces announced the destruction of 13 drones, and the interception of 4 Tochka missiles and 21 missiles from the Oragon system

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539406288081272833

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539404590570946568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539355519848173569

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## The SC

According to Russian official sources, there are 7 missing and 3 injured, and rescue operations are still underway, as a result of the Ukrainian Harpoon missiles targeting 3 Russian platforms for gas exploration in the Black Sea, south of Odessa.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## _Nabil_

jhungary said:


> It's stop being a joke when they are calling you directly on it. When they single you or anyone else out specifically, that stop being a joke, that become a personal insult.
> 
> And if I tell you you are a carpet worshipper (akin to how you Muslim pray) would you see that as a joke and laugh it off?? Not Muslim in general, but* YOU*. *YOU* are a carpet worshipper. Do *YOU* find that funny??
> 
> I mean I would not go around and make joke like that, if this is in a pub, you make joke like this is looking for a fight. You probably will end up getting more than a negative rating. A joke is "American are dumb" not "You are dumb"
> 
> Get it?


Didn't quoted you regarding " You are a dumbass"

I have quoted you about the Banana joke, regarding westerners Asians how they are viewed, it a funny joke, no racism, indecency or insult.... Just smart Parallel with colours, if you can find any hint of racism or whatever other thing, I'll be grateful if you enlighten me.

Well, I've read many jokes about Muslims and Arabs, some are really funny even if somehow provocative.

Regarding the "Dumbass" thing, I find your perception really strange, personally, I'd prefer to be called a "Dumbass", than "Muslims or Arabs are Dumbass", I won't get upset over myself but will be over my community or my religion.

I'm not advocating name calling and personal attacks, not at all, I'm really shocked and astonished how much people here call names "retarded" "Stupid", .... Are commonly used without any mods interference.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Germany getting ready to reclaim Kaliningrad from Russia.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538865697442373632
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539368244632555522



Kaliningrad is accessible from Saint Petersburg by air and ship. A land blockade is not a complete blockade. Plus, if Germany invades Russia then China invades Germany. Three can play the game.


----------



## _Nabil_

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Kaliningrad is accessible from Saint Petersburg by air and ship. A land blockade is not a complete blockade. Plus, if Germany invades Russia then China invades Germany. Three can play the game.


Germany invading Kaliningrad? are you serious ????

China invading Germany? You mean Russia???


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

_Nabil_ said:


> Germany invading Kaliningrad? are you serious ????
> 
> China invading Germany? You mean Russia???



I meant Lithuania. If Lithuania invades Kaliningrad then China will vanmoose Lithuania. And it won't be pretty. China would seriously annex Lithuania and make them all Chinese citizens.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539347483788300298

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539286492635443202

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539352220302458883

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539350506065350656

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## _Nabil_

Tai Hai Chen said:


> I meant Lithuania. If Lithuania invades Kaliningrad then China will vanmoose Lithuania. And it won't be pretty. China would seriously annex Lithuania and make them all Chinese citizens.


Take a rest + some tea with mint or Lemonade ✌️


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539207897309143041

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539136237029978113

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539210402013265921

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539291273315721216

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## ckf

_Nabil_ said:


> Didn't quoted you regarding " You are a dumbass"
> 
> I have quoted you about the Banana joke, regarding westerners Asians how they are viewed, it a funny joke, no racism, indecency or insult.... Just smart Parallel with colours, if you can find any hint of racism or whatever other thing, I'll be grateful if you enlighten me.
> 
> Well, I've read many jokes about Muslims and Arabs, some are really funny even if somehow provocative.
> 
> Regarding the "Dumbass" thing, I find your perception really strange, personally, I'd prefer to be called a "Dumbass", than "Muslims or Arabs are Dumbass", I won't get upset over myself but will be over my community or my religion.
> 
> I'm not advocating name calling and personal attacks, not at all, I'm really shocked and astonished how much people here call names "retarded" "Stupid", .... Are commonly used without any mods interference.



Have you seen Resevoir Dog? Where they give out names to all the thieves, where it was funny that "Mr. Brown" took exception to being called "Mr. Brown". I know too many honkytonks with bricks up their asses that need to lighten up and clear out all the negativity in their system. Just take a laxative and called it a night.

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## jhungary

_Nabil_ said:


> Didn't quoted you regarding " You are a dumbass"
> 
> I have quoted you about the Banana joke, regarding westerners Asians how they are viewed, it a funny joke, no racism, indecency or insult.... Just smart Parallel with colours, if you can find any hint of racism or whatever other thing, I'll be grateful if you enlighten me.
> 
> Well, I've read many jokes about Muslims and Arabs, some are really funny even if somehow provocative.
> 
> Regarding the "Dumbass" thing, I find your perception really strange, personally, I'd prefer to be called a "Dumbass", than "Muslims or Arabs are Dumbass", I won't get upset over myself but will be over my community or my religion.
> 
> I'm not advocating name calling and personal attacks, not at all, I'm really shocked and astonished how much people here call names "retarded" "Stupid", .... Are commonly used without any mods interference.


Again, same principal applies.

If I call Turks or Egyptian are "Sand Nergo" (Can't use that word I want to use but you should know the term) That probably meant as a joke, But what if I say it in your face and call you "Com'ere Sand Nergo" does that mean a joke to you or do you find that funny??

How about African and the "N" word. If I say all African are "ni..er", that is an untasteful joke, borderline racist. But when I come up to a Black American I don't know and say "Hey Ni..ger" do you think he would still think this is an untasteful joke??

I mean if you don't find it offensive, then you don't leave him negative rating, but does that mean because he call me a banana and that does not offend you, then I shouldn't feel offended??

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539317577981349888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539260567633928193

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539332275426451457

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539297376397033475


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

_Nabil_ said:


> Take a rest + some tea with mint or Lemonade ✌️



China is keen on getting a foothold in Europe to cement its status as the dominant country in the Old World. Lithuanian invasion of Kaliningrad gives China the carte blanche to invade and annex Lithuania.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## kingQamaR

The EU is able to sanction the transit of goods through its territories from Russia; and that's what it has done. There could, of course, be repercussions but the decision has been made that allowing Russia to move whatever it wants into Kaliningrad, in the circumstances, is a bad idea and constitutes a threat. And I tend to agree

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## ckf

jhungary said:


> Again, same principal applies.
> 
> If I call Turks or Egyptian are "Sand Nergo" (Can't use that word I want to use but you should know the term) That probably meant as a joke, But what if I say it in your face and call you "Com'ere Sand Nergo" does that mean a joke to you?
> 
> How about African and the "N" word. If I say all African are "ni..er", that is an untasteful joke, borderline racist. But when I come up to a Black American I don't know and say "Hey Ni..ger" do you think he would still think this is an untasteful joke??
> 
> I mean if you don't find it offensive, then you don't leave him negative rating, but does that mean because he call me a banana and that does not offend you, then I shouldn't feel offended??


@ Jhungary, honestly not trying being sadistic and bud in the conversation. "Banana" has no racial discriminatory slang to it, and its like differentiation of cultural background. So it's not in the same sentence as " hey Ni..ger to it" , it means you are a slave to your master. That's a whole different orientation. If you disagree, just ignore my post and I am not trying to start something with this post, just a different perspective.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539297351608815617

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539393934773870592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539393231670153216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539389810627977218

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## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> Again, same principal applies.
> 
> If I call Turks or Egyptian are "Sand Nergo" (Can't use that word I want to use but you should know the term) That probably meant as a joke, But what if I say it in your face and call you "Com'ere Sand Nergo" does that mean a joke to you or do you find that funny??
> 
> How about African and the "N" word. If I say all African are "ni..er", that is an untasteful joke, borderline racist. But when I come up to a Black American I don't know and say "Hey Ni..ger" do you think he would still think this is an untasteful joke??
> 
> I mean if you don't find it offensive, then you don't leave him negative rating, but does that mean because he call me a banana and that does not offend you, then I shouldn't feel offended??



Don't even try to talk to someone who follows the race by color, or race by Nationality or race by ethnicity or race by religion narratives. Those people are extremely foolish and dangerous.

Test the waters, if they do think that way, drop it immediately. These people are deranged and delusional


----------



## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> Don't even try to talk to someone who follows the race by color, or race by Nationality or race by ethnicity or race by religion narratives. Those people are extremely foolish and dangerous.
> 
> Test the waters, if they do think that way, drop it immediately. These people are deranged and delusional


yeah, not going to engage with this anymore.

Already tagged mod to take care of this.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539332275426451457



Su-35 compared to MiG-29 is like F-15 compared to MiG-23. It's easy kill. I feel sorry for the Ukrainian pilot being sent on a 1 way suicide mission.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539388537040211970

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539388449324937216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539386150946742274

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539385638436339714

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539388537040211970



Russia is not affected by Western sanction due to China backing. So while Germany is hurting, Russia is soaring.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539381315988078592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539380608375345152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539379723830276096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539378604794077186

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539316110260064256

Reactions: Like Like:
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## sammuel

Tai Hai Chen said:


> In Chinese schools every morning there is patriotic song playing on loudspeaker while children do morning exercise outside wearing uniform and red scarf.



Wow , that sounds like no fun at all.

I guess Bee-girl , would not feel comfortable there :








~


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539380608375345152



It's pretty sad Ukraine don't even have anymore fuel left for civilian cars. The suffering of the Ukrainian people is terrible but well deserved.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen



Reactions: Like Like:
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## kingQamaR

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia is not affected by Western sanction due to China backing. So while Germany is hurting, Russia is soaring.



Russia is a net importer of food stuffs by the way, or should I call you Vlad and has a small economy when compared to most western countries. It makes all of its exports from gas and oil and when Europe turns away from both its economy will tank

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539375874038013957

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539372982661001217

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539366308751474689

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539366326002667523

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539366333111992327

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539278196012732417

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539210915106676736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539233594333626368


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I add a spoiler tag to all of the graphic posts and even make it very clear that it is "GRAPHIC". Besides, there are others who posts dead Russian soldiers and brag about it, while calling them all names in the book. Therefore, your faux outrage is laughable.
> 
> I don't get banned because I follow the rules. I just report the news.


Whataboutism does not make your posts OK.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> Russia is a net importer of food stuffs by the way, or should I call you Vlad and has a small economy when compared to most western countries. It makes all of its exports from gas and oil and when Europe turns away from both its economy will tank



Economy doesn't mean much these days. Russia can print 1000 quidrillion US dollars if it wants to. Civilians are not allowed to print money. Governments are allowed to print money.

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## Viet

Waking up then I read the news of the day.

Russia says the point of no return is passed. Peskow, the man in Putin’s inner circle, says Russia will never trust the West again. Putin says there is “no return”. Too bad, this war will become very ugly. 






__





Dmitri Peskow: Beziehungen zum Westen langfristig beschädigt - ZDFheute


Der Konflikt zwischen Russland und dem Westen wird "eine lange Krise werden", so Putins Sprecher. Moskau könne dem Westen "nie wieder vertrauen".




amp.zdf.de


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539398695912980480


Viet said:


> Waking up then I read the news of the day.
> 
> Russia says the point of no return is passed. Peskow, the man in Putin’s inner circle, says Russia will never trust the West again. Putin says there is “no return”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dmitri Peskow: Beziehungen zum Westen langfristig beschädigt - ZDFheute
> 
> 
> Der Konflikt zwischen Russland und dem Westen wird "eine lange Krise werden", so Putins Sprecher. Moskau könne dem Westen "nie wieder vertrauen".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amp.zdf.de



The West has decayed to beyond belief. If I were Russian, I cozy up with the Chinese and leave the West to rot.


----------



## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> The West has decayed to beyond belief. If I were Russian, I cozy up with the Chinese and leave the West to rot.


Cozy up to China? I wish I can. Chinese are like Japanese and Koreans they consider themselves as civilized other are babarians aka ni…


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Cozy to China? I wish I can. Chinese are like Japanese and Koreans they consider themselves as civilized other are babarians aka ni…



China ain't called the world's oldest continuous civilization for nothing. 5,000 years ago, Sumerian settlers conquered China from the hunter gatherers and brought civilization to the land of the twin rivers.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Dalit

khansaheeb said:


> You sure you want them?:-
> View attachment 855752



I am very sure bro. Very sure.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Iron Shrappenel

jhungary said:


> Sure, and you know
> 
> Again, map the parts with this still image I captured form the video to a specific M777 parts?
> 
> View attachment 855712
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 855714
> 
> 
> View attachment 855721
> 
> 
> And Russia have satellite, did they? Why not they task a satellite and photo the wreckage for battlefield damage assessment? Instead of that grainy drone image??
> 
> Also, the Russian claim of how they come to destroy those "M777" are also suspicious. According to newsweek the claim is the Ukrainian is trying to retake Snake Island (itself is a big WTF, it's a small island, virtually undefendable, even if they can take it back, by Ukraine as long as Russian Navy blockading Odessa, unless daily naval bombardment is what the Ukrainian fancy over the next 3 to 6 months)
> 
> You don't send static artillery to support a landing of an islands. How are you supposed to do it? That was an island, in the middle of the sea around 30 km away from any land. And putting artillery piece in Kubansky Island (The location this supposed to happen) is absurd, sure, put a system that cannot be put up easily on an island that you cannot move easily.
> 
> https://www.newsweek.com/russia-says-it-destroyed-equipment-sent-ukraine-us-european-allies-1717859
> 
> 
> Well, I did admit that OSINT spotted 4 M777 Wreck, I am just saying this is not one of them.


Why did you choose that frame ?
And the only one where the shadow is obscured... How convenient for you...
Satellite imagery because those resources can't be used on other more important targets... 






That is most definitely an M777..... If you don't want to believe it that's your opinion .. but fact remains a fact ....

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## jamahir

_Nabil_ said:


> @jhungary
> 
> Giving a negative rating for a joke ??
> Seriously I thought you were a decent guy, even if I don't share your views ....
> 
> Yesterday was @jamahir, now a joke ..... 🤔
> 
> 
> View attachment 855726





jhungary said:


> It's stop being a joke when they are calling you directly on it. When they single you or anyone else out specifically, that stop being a joke, that become a personal insult.
> 
> And if I tell you you are a carpet worshipper (akin to how you Muslim pray) would you see that as a joke and laugh it off?? Not Muslim in general, but* YOU*. *YOU* are a carpet worshipper. Do *YOU* find that funny??
> 
> I mean I would not go around and make joke like that, if this is in a pub, you make joke like this is looking for a fight. You probably will end up getting more than a negative rating. A joke is "American are dumb" not "You are dumb"
> 
> Get it?





_Nabil_ said:


> I'm not advocating name calling and personal attacks, not at all, I'm really shocked and astonished how much people here call names "retarded" "Stupid", .... Are commonly used without any mods interference.



Yes, "You a retard ?" is used here often. Mental retardation is a sad, involuntary condition and those here who use it as insult are such idiots who are insensitive and non-empathetic. Now idiocy is a totally voluntary condition. So JHungary should negative rate idiots who use "Retard" as well but he is not doing it.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> I meant Lithuania. If Lithuania invades Kaliningrad then China will vanmoose Lithuania. And it won't be pretty. China would seriously annex Lithuania and make them all Chinese citizens.



What's China's interest in Lithuania ?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ZeGerman

Viet said:


> Waking up then I read the news of the day.
> 
> Russia says the point of no return is passed. Peskow, the man in Putin’s inner circle, says Russia will never trust the West again. Putin says there is “no return”. Too bad, this war will become very ugly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dmitri Peskow: Beziehungen zum Westen langfristig beschädigt - ZDFheute
> 
> 
> Der Konflikt zwischen Russland und dem Westen wird "eine lange Krise werden", so Putins Sprecher. Moskau könne dem Westen "nie wieder vertrauen".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amp.zdf.de


Russia constantly breaches airspace european countryes with fighters and bombers (able to carry nuclear weapon)

Russia constantly funds and supports extremist and nationalistic parties to weaken EU. 

Russia poisons russian political on european soil

Russia then tries to annex a european country…

Russia threathens european countries with nuclear war

Russian cuts off gas contracts with europe…not even seen during mid of coldwar…


But its russia that “ cannot trust” the west. What nonsense. Cry more russia, cry 😭

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## kingQamaR

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Economy doesn't mean much these days. Russia can print 1000 quidrillion US dollars if it wants to. Civilians are not allowed to print money. Governments are allowed to print money.



North Korea was thought to have done this with US $100 bills. The thing is, relatively little of a country’s money actually circulates as notes and coins. Most of what we think of as “money” is really just blips in a computer somewhere. Think of your own money: how much do you have in savings, and how much do you have in your pocket right now? So while this is an inconvenience, it’s not a big deal economically. The only thing would be if these counterfeit notes got to be so widespread that they eroded confidence in the US currency.


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539491327271903233

Reactions: Love Love:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## Corax

jhungary said:


> Not there to play tourist, would you be dumb enough to take picture so people can geolocate you and hit those camp?
> 
> Again, I don't say that so you can believe me, honestly I don't really care what you think.
> 
> As for fighting, this ain't my war, I am not Ukrainian, and as long as what I teach them and kill Russian, I don't really care.
> 
> 
> I have already said why this is not M777, not going to repeat again.
> 
> But I will part with this convo with this. I probably can make a video saying I have destroyed an Abrams tank very easily when I didn't And you are talking about a state with probably unlimited resources to do it. And this is not the first time they said something happened "With video evidence" and it did not.



As I suspected...you're all mouth and talk and BS   That's it, run away like a chicken when you can't back up all your talk and proven wrong.

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## jhungary

Iron Shrappenel said:


> Why did you choose that frame ?
> And the only one where the shadow is obscured... How convenient for you...
> Satellite imagery because those resources can't be used on other more important targets...
> 
> View attachment 855768
> 
> That is most definitely an M777..... If you don't want to believe it that's your opinion .. but fact remains a fact ....


First of all, frame can be anything, how do you know this is a M777? As I said in my post, the barrel is too clean, unless you are talking about an M777 without optics or that GPS box (You don't have the GPS component but that box is still welded into the barrel assembly.) You can't match that to any of that on that destroyed gun on the feature that M777 have, just because it looks like it, then it must have been? 

On the other hand, frame can be fake. just because I put a video out and say "X Y Z is destroyed does not make it really X Y and Z is actually destroyed. You can fake it. You do know that, right?

For example. Tell me which one of the tank below is a Real M1 Abrams and why it is real and why it is fake?






















Not all of the above are real M1 Abrams and was used in movie, and if you can aesthetically make a tank look a lot like a tank you want to look like, how hard is it to make a artillery gun looks like it, and the one above is just Hollywood cheap copies and you are talking about a state have billions of budget to make something real, and it's not like they have not done that before.

And finally the story that comes with that video is just too incredible to believe. lol Ukraine try to take back Snake Island and took their M777 in another island to support that effort just to be bombed by the Russian and lost an entire platoon on that island? LOL Do you really buy into that angle? If you do, I have a bridge to sell you, it's there, you can use it, and it will be yours for just $8 millions dollars.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Corax

jhungary said:


> First of all, frame can be anything, how do you know this is a M777? As I said in my post, the barrel is too clean, unless you are talking about an M777 without optics or that GPS box (You don't have the GPS component but that box is still welded into the barrel assembly.) You can't match that to any of that on that destroyed gun on the feature that M777 have, just because it looks like it, then it must have been?
> 
> On the other hand, frame can be fake. just because I put a video out and say "X Y Z is destroyed does not make it really X Y and Z is actually destroyed. You can fake it. You do know that, right?
> 
> For example. Tell me which one of the tank below is a Real M1 Abrams and why it is real and why it is fake?
> View attachment 855797
> 
> View attachment 855798
> 
> View attachment 855799
> 
> View attachment 855800
> 
> View attachment 855801
> 
> 
> Not all of the above are real M1 Abrams and was used in movie, and if you can aesthetically make a tank look a lot like a tank you want to look like, how hard is it to make a artillery gun looks like it, and the one above is just Hollywood cheap copies and you are talking about a state have billions of budget to make something real, and it's not like they have not done that before.
> 
> And finally the story that comes with that video is just too incredible to believe. lol Ukraine try to take back Snake Island and took their M777 in another island to support that effort just to be bombed by the Russian and lost an entire platoon on that island? LOL Do you really buy into that angle? If you do, I have a bridge to sell you, it's there, you can use it, and it will be yours for just $8 millions dollars.



Dude, you look so sad and pathetic with your attempts to show it wasn't a M777

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## jhungary

Corax said:


> As I suspected...you're all mouth and talk and BS   That's it, run away like a chicken when you can't back up all your talk and proven wrong.


Wrong what??

Again, as I said, believe it or not is up to you, I didn't bring that up to say anything important, I brought that up to talk to another member there are a tank grave yard exist and I have had a conversation with the dude that in charge of that grave yard.

Wrong as in that "Grave yard" does not exist if I werent there? Or Wrong as in you don't believe Russian tank was destroyed and paraded in the street in Kyiv and store somewhere??

*Again, look into a mirror before you tell people they are proven wrong, I am still awaiting on which parts of that picture mapped to a M777 component so to prove that you are right. Anytime now, and I can't wait forever.*



Corax said:


> Dude, you look so sad and pathetic with your attempts to show it wasn't a M777


And yet I still have not seen you try to prove me wrong, are you too scare to do it, chico?  

But of course, you say it is, then it must be, right? You are the god of war, am I correct??


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## Corax

jhungary said:


> Wrong what??
> 
> Again, as I said, believe it or not is up to you, I didn't bring that up to say anything important, I brought that up to talk to another member there are a tank grave yard exist and I have had a conversation with the dude that in charge of that grave yard.
> 
> Wrong as in that "Grave yard" does not exist if I werent there? Or Wrong as in you don't believe Russian tank was destroyed and paraded in the street in Kyiv and store somewhere??
> 
> *Again, look into a mirror before you tell people they are proven wrong, I am still awaiting on which parts of that picture mapped to a M777 component so to prove that you are right. Anytime now, and I can't wait forever.*
> 
> 
> And yet I still have not seen you try to prove me wrong, are you too scare to do it, chico?
> 
> But of course, you say it is, then it must be, right? You are the god of war, am I correct??



*SHOUT LOUDER...IT WILL MAKE YOU RIGHT!!*

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## jhungary

jamahir said:


> Yes, "You a retard ?" is used here often. Mental retardation is a sad, involuntary condition and those here who use it as insult are such idiots who are insensitive and non-empathetic. Now idiocy is a totally voluntary condition. So JHungary should negative rate idiots who use "Retard" as well but he is not doing it.
> 
> 
> 
> What's China's interest in Lithuania ?


I am not a rating police. why would I care about stuff that not said to me.

Again, you can call the entire American population "Retard" that's okay with me, but what's not okay with me is you call me "Retard"



Corax said:


> *SHOUT LOUDER...IT WILL MAKE YOU RIGHT!!*


*SO STILL NO ANSWER lolol*  *WHAT MAKE ME RIGHT IS THAT YOU FAILED TO PROVE ME WRONG. Not because of some dumb font size.*

I mean, how hard is it to prove that I am wrong instead of doing this dance?? Geez, I can't even understand how someone intelligence can be that shot out. But hey, if you want to keep doing it, it is up to you.

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## Corax

jhungary said:


> I am not a rating police. why would I care about stuff that not said to me.
> 
> Again, you can call the entire American population "Retard" that's okay with me, but what's not okay with me is you call me "Retard"
> 
> 
> *SO STILL NO ANSWER lolol*  *WHAT MAKE ME RIGHT IS THAT YOU FAILED TO PROVE ME WRONG. Not because of some dumb font size.*
> 
> I mean, how hard is it to prove that I am wrong instead of doing this dance?? Geez, I can't even understand how someone intelligence can be that shot out. But hey, if you want to keep doing it, it is up to you.



There is clear video showing M777s being towed, deployed, and destroyed, reported as destroyed online by other observers, but just because *YOU'RE BUTT HURT, YOU WHINE LIKE A BABY!!   

I CAN DO THIS ALL DAY!*

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## jhungary

Corax said:


> There is clear video showing M777s being towed, deployed, and destroyed, reported as destroyed online by other observers, but just because *YOU'RE BUTT HURT, YOU WHINE LIKE A BABY!!
> 
> I CAN DO THIS ALL DAY!*


So, you still have no answer other than it is a M777 as per you. And you, I don't know, what kind of military service experience you have??

You can do this all day does not mean you are right. Again, map the M777 parts on that picture, then we can talk, otherwise I am not interested in this is a M777 because I said so explanation. 

*AND I CAN DO THIS ALL DAY TOO!* I hope you have clear your entire afternoon, as I have nothing to do but hang out here all day.

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## Corax

jhungary said:


> So, you still have no answer other than it is a M777 as per you. And you, I don't know, what kind of military service experience you have??
> 
> You can do this all day does not mean you are right. Again, map the M777 parts on that picture, then we can talk, otherwise I am not interested in this is a M777 because I said so explanation.
> 
> *AND I CAN DO THIS ALL DAY TOO!* I hope you have clear your entire afternoon, as I have nothing to do but hang out here all day.



*LIVE IN DENIAL ...BUTT HURT!! *

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## jhungary

Corax said:


> *LIVE IN DENIAL ...BUTT HURT!! *


So you are saying you have no answer??


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## NotSure

Corax said:


> Dude, you look so sad and pathetic with your attempts to show it wasn't a M777


I thought his propaganda fight over each cm of mariupol and later severodonezk was funny, but this is so ridiculous. And how hard he is trying, posting again walls of garbage text, unrelated pics etc.

Such a NPC.

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## Corax

NotSure said:


> I thought his propaganda fight over each cm of mariupol and later severodonezk was funny, but this is so ridiculous. And how hard he is trying, posting again walls of garbage text, unrelated pics etc.
> 
> Such a NPC.



I know right? I mean even a petulant child wouldn't even behave like this  and this guy claims to be a "military expert" who was "there" in Ukraine training Uki Nazis! 
Well, no wonder the Uki Nazis are taking such a hammering if they have this so called "expert" training them!

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## jhungary

NotSure said:


> I thought his propaganda fight over each cm of mariupol and later severodonezk was funny, but this is so ridiculous. And how hard he is trying, posting again walls of garbage text, unrelated pics etc.
> 
> Such a NPC.


Hearing a lot of "I am wrong" but not a lot of "*Evidence pointing out I am wrong*"

Again, I said my piece as for how or why I don't think they are M777, which is already one thing more than you do, I mean sure, if you try to use photogenic evidence to take my argument apart, I will admit defeat, but you know what? All that I hear is, I am wrong, because you said so. None of that has been done what-so-ever.

But sure, you know everything, I don't know jack shit, am I correct?? as long as you are the loudest, and most annoying, you don't need to show prove that someone else is wrong with their arugment, all you need is for you to say "I am wrong" then I am automatically wrong, regardless of what kind of experience you had and I had, am I right??



Corax said:


> I know right? I mean even a petulant child wouldn't even behave like this  and this guy claims to be a "military expert" who was "there" in Ukraine training Uki Nazis!
> Well, no wonder the Uki Nazis are taking such a hammering if they have this so called "expert" training them!


I did not claim to be a "Military Expert" I was *elevated to that position by the management here*. Or do you thin k you can add that title in by yourself??

well, if you can show me prove that I am wrong and those are M777, maybe you would know what is an "military expert" here mean, but hey, you are just you, and you are nobody, which mean what you said is just "___" lol

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## jhungary

@waz @LeGenD

Can you come here and clean up this threat, a lot of the post from @NotSure @Corax is not about the topic, instead they are about me. I mean sure, if you want to open a thread and area to discuss me, I am all for it, but can they do it somewhere else??

I can discuss any Military Problem they fancy, but whether or not I serve and what military knowledge I process is not the topic of discussion here.

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## Iron Shrappenel

jhungary said:


> First of all, frame can be anything, how do you know this is a M777? As I said in my post, the barrel is too clean, unless you are talking about an M777 without optics or that GPS box (You don't have the GPS component but that box is still welded into the barrel assembly.) You can't match that to any of that on that destroyed gun on the feature that M777 have, just because it looks like it, then it must have been?
> 
> On the other hand, frame can be fake. just because I put a video out and say "X Y Z is destroyed does not make it really X Y and Z is actually destroyed. You can fake it. You do know that, right?
> 
> For example. Tell me which one of the tank below is a Real M1 Abrams and why it is real and why it is fake?
> View attachment 855797
> 
> View attachment 855798
> 
> View attachment 855799
> 
> View attachment 855800
> 
> View attachment 855801
> 
> 
> Not all of the above are real M1 Abrams and was used in movie, and if you can aesthetically make a tank look a lot like a tank you want to look like, how hard is it to make a artillery gun looks like it, and the one above is just Hollywood cheap copies and you are talking about a state have billions of budget to make something real, and it's not like they have not done that before.
> 
> And finally the story that comes with that video is just too incredible to believe. lol Ukraine try to take back Snake Island and took their M777 in another island to support that effort just to be bombed by the Russian and lost an entire platoon on that island? LOL Do you really buy into that angle? If you do, I have a bridge to sell you, it's there, you can use it, and it will be yours for just $8 millions dollars.


A member claimed a few posts back that the M777 shipped to Ukraine have their digital computers removed. 
Now you tell me if that is true, how relevant does the GPS box is...
Wait..... Did you just claim that they made a prop.... Hahaha...
Bro, now you're just sounding pathetic... 
And by your standard of delusion I'm sceptical if that's a bridge or toothpicks joined together....

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## jhungary

Iron Shrappenel said:


> A member claimed a few posts back that the M777 shipped to Ukraine have their digital computers removed.
> Now you tell me if that is true, how relevant does the GPS box is...
> Wait..... Did you just claim that they made a prop.... Hahaha...
> Bro, now you're just sounding pathetic...
> And by your standard of delusion I'm sceptical if that's a bridge or toothpicks joined together....


The GPS box would still be there on top of the optics, and I don't see from the top side of this photo, can you? Just because you removed the GPS receiver, that does not mean the box is gone. The box is quite distinctive.

Again, all I am asking is you map the parts of M777 on that photo, if I am BS like you said, that should be easy,

I am not interested in this is pathetic or I am delusional. Show me proof that I am wrong if you want me to shut up.

It's that easy, you can save the "I am stupid, I am delusion" somewhere else.



NotSure said:


> Wow, calling for big daddy after polluting the thread with your garbage. You are such a tough guy, a real fighter.
> 
> Like the murican mercenary after his capture: "I am against war".


Save with the personal insult please.

And more importantly, if you have to insult someone, at least try to make sure it spell correctly before you send it.

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## Paul2

Bad reports from Donbas, good from Kherson


Russia used its firepower advantage to advance from the south. They hopped multiple small villages
Kiselivka is fully abandoned by Russians sans soldiers who used Russian retreat to desert. Lots, and lots of heavy ammo!


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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Bad reports from Donbas, good from Kherson
> 
> 
> Russia used its firepower advantage to advance from the south. They hopped multiple small villages
> Kiselivka is fully abandoned by Russians sans soldiers who used Russian retreat to desert. Lots, and lots of heavy ammo!


From Telegram?


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539520241906159616

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## Corax

..............

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## jhungary

Corax said:


> I feel exactly the same...he's a keyboard warrior, probably sitting in his mum's basement in sweatpants, and pretending he's "been to Ukraine" training the Nazis. But when he's challenged and shown to be wrong, all he can do is throw his dummy out of his pram and start issuing negative rating to everyone


Again, one final post.

If you said I am Bullshit, I am a keyboard warrior, then it would not be that hard to prove me wrong. But then 20 posts into this and I still did not see you try to match any part of M777 in that photo to try to prove me wrong.

I mean, sure, I can be wrong, and I was wrong for a couple of time, but this is just low. as I said, I am only right about the situation 70% of a time before it happened, I mean, everyone have a mouth to say stuff, but can they back up what they said is another issue. I had, you didn't.

Now, you can either do that, and let people here see you are not all talk, or you can keep bashing me over it without supporting any of your argument, that's your choice, but if all you want is to do the latter, then I will just say this "Prepare to get banned'

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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> China ain't called the world's oldest continuous civilization for nothing. 5,000 years ago, Sumerian settlers conquered China from the hunter gatherers and brought civilization to the land of the twin rivers.


No, human as such is primitive. Nothing has changed since dinosaurs. Human kill each other sometimes just for fun. Sometimes just for shoes, washing machines. Animals never do that. Animals know no hatred, no racism. No, chinese are no exception. If we are not prepared we would end up in gas chambers.


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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> From Telegram?



yes, tg a small group of volunteers from Poland who have people on the ground.


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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> yes, tg


Have not check on my source about the current situation, been involved with some dingoberry here. 

If the Russian vacated Kiselivka, that put Kherson in solid artillery range (Some 15 km) with some range to spare, would have thought the Russia would not give that up without a fight, well, there are no where to go but to go back all the way to Kherson if they do vacate.


----------



## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Have not check on my source about the current situation, been involved with some dingoberry here.
> 
> If the Russian vacated Kiselivka, that put Kherson in solid artillery range (Some 15 km) with some range to spare, would have thought the Russia would not give that up without a fight, well, there are no where to go but to go back all the way to Kherson if they do vacate.



The village is not that big, and was changing hands weekly in first months of the war. There are just 3-4 concrete building there to hide.


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## Iron Shrappenel

jhungary said:


> The GPS box would still be there on top of the optics, and I don't see from the top side of this photo, can you? Just because you removed the GPS receiver, that does not mean the box is gone. The box is quite distinctive.
> 
> Again, all I am asking is you map the parts of M777 on that photo, if I am BS like you said, that should be easy,
> 
> I am not interested in this is pathetic or I am delusional. Show me proof that I am wrong if you want me to shut up.
> 
> It's that easy, you can save the "I am stupid, I am delusion" somewhere else.
> 
> 
> Save with the personal insult please.
> 
> And more importantly, if you have to insult someone, at least try to make sure it spell correctly before you send it.
> View attachment 855808







Look at the left drawing of the M777 (Early). Earlier models seem to not have the GPS box. Here are some examples of ones deployed in Ukraine, the last photograph is just for reference and not of actual combat in Ukraine... All SS have been taken from YouTube of these respective channel. Anyone is free to check these.....
Now, is that bridge a bridge or what ?
Surprised of how attached you are to these equipment.... At the end of the day they are all vulnerable to destruction...

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> The village is not that big, and was changing hands weekly in first months of the war. There are just 3-4 concrete building there to hide.


Are you sure? I am pretty sure Kiselivka is a satellite residential suburb close to Kherson.....Or am I thinking of a different Kiselivka


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## Iron Shrappenel

Iron Shrappenel said:


> View attachment 855813
> 
> Look at the left drawing of the M777 (Early). Earlier models seem to not have the GPS box. Here are some examples of ones deployed in Ukraine, the last photograph is just for reference and not of actual combat in Ukraine... All SS have been taken from YouTube of these respective channel. Anyone is free to check these.....
> Now, is that bridge a bridge or what ?
> Surprised of how attached you are to these equipment.... At the end of the day they are all vulnerable to destruction...


In the last image you can also see that the GPS box is bolted... Once removed only the bolts are visible... So no box... So if you want to volunteer for HD pics.. Feel free to take a trip to Ukraine


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## jhungary

Iron Shrappenel said:


> View attachment 855813
> 
> Look at the left drawing of the M777 (Early). Earlier models seem to not have the GPS box. Here are some examples of ones deployed in Ukraine, the last photograph is just for reference and not of actual combat in Ukraine... All SS have been taken from YouTube of these respective channel. Anyone is free to check these.....
> Now, is that bridge a bridge or what ?
> Surprised of how attached you are to these equipment.... At the end of the day they are all vulnerable to destruction...


Well, all 3 pictures you show have the GPS box on it if you look closer, the earlier M777 does not have one, but the US Army one is all upgraded to A2 version, which have them and can fire Excalibur round









PM Towed Artillery Systems | Defense Media Network


A news article about the U.S. Marine Corps' Program Manager, Towed Artillery Systems (PM-TAS), with a focus on M777A2 155 mm howitzer.




www.defensemedianetwork.com







> *Both services are “pure fleeted” with M777A2 guns* (the “A2” can fire Excalibur), with the only difference between Army and Marine Corps configurations being that the Marine Corps howitzers do not have the run-flat tires used on Army guns. A key performance parameter (KPP) for the M777A2 is a maximum 10,000 pound weight, allowing external airlift by the Osprey. Eliminating the run-flats saved around 120 pounds, providing “a little cushion” that had been sought by Marine Corps planners.



So all US system have that box there.

Now, I can't say this for the other country that donated the M777 system, but I do know Australian only have A2 as well, and Canada have send 4 guns, and they are the one that send the Excalibur round, so I would assume those 4 guns are A2.

On the other hand, just on the balance of probability, and say Canada really do send 4 old M777 system without that box, there are 132 (108 now) guns in Ukraine, 98 of those are from US (All A2) and 6 is from Australian (Also A2) now tell me the chance, even if Canada did not send A2, that the Russian scooped up a system without that box is?

And yes, I do have a bridge to sell you, it's large, it's cable, and it's famous, and it's all yours but you can't take it home.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539531018935451649


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## jhungary

Iron Shrappenel said:


> In the last image you can also see that the GPS box is bolted... Once removed only the bolts are visible... So no box... So if you want to volunteer for HD pics.. Feel free to take a trip to Ukraine


lol, you will still see the "Bracket" if you removed that box not just the bolt. And that bracket is almost 1/2 of length of that box, which you can see the bracket cover from the last image. .

I don't need to go to Ukraine to see a M777, I have used them in Afghanistan and I have seen a few here in Australia

But then it's a moot point, because Ukraine kept the box when they use the system


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539536815467765760


jhungary said:


> On the other hand, just on the balance of probability, and say Canada really do send 4 old M777 system without that box, there are 132 (108 now) guns in Ukraine, 98 of those are from US (All A2) and 6 is from Australian (Also A2) now tell me the chance, even if Canada did not send A2, that the Russian scooped up a system without that box is?



Some of those are destroyed already.


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

jhungary said:


> lol, you will still see the "Bracket" if you removed that box not just the bolt. And that bracket is almost 1/2 of length of that box, which you can see the bracket cover from the last image. .
> 
> I don't need to go to Ukraine to see a M777, I have used them in Afghanistan and I have seen a few here in Australia


The bracket would obviously be less visible in those pics as they are of less quality.... 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525527249042161665There is more chance of U.S removing the system with the exception of the Canadian....
Australia.... Weren't you a farmer in America a few weeks back....
No wonder you beat about the bush so bad....

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539540205643915264


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## jhungary

Iron Shrappenel said:


> The bracket would obviously be less visible in those pics as they are of less quality....
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525527249042161665There is more chance of U.S removing the system with the exception of the Canadian....
> Australia.... Weren't you a farmer in America a few weeks back....
> No wonder you beat about the bush so bad....


Problem is, I don't yet see a system that was used by Ukraine have those box removed. And as I said, as low quality as it would, you would still be able to see ether the box or the bracket.

look at this screen cap form a video, you can still see the communication module (it actually intact in this video) and its detail despite shit quality. And then it also come with a question, would US remove some box from some system and not the other??

And no, I am not a farmer, my family own farm, I know how to farm, does that make me a farmer? Dude, are you a chef if you know how to cook? What a stupid analogy.







Another one. You can see the dude's AK, and the box is clearly seen on the gun






and as I said, even if the box is removed, that Bracket is quite big, almost as big as the box, you would be able to see that on that photo.

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## Paul2

jhungary said:


> Are you sure? I am pretty sure Kiselivka is a satellite residential suburb close to Kherson.....Or am I thinking of a different Kiselivka
> 
> View attachment 855826



Yes, that's the one I am talking about. It's rather small. Well, small by my standards.


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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Yes, that's the one I am talking about. It's rather small. Well, small by my standards.


Well, this is as big as the suburb I am living, and I am pretty sure it is quite defendable with a couple of hundred troops....


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539529330652598273

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539528759098888193

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539526672352952321


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## Corax

Iron Shrappenel said:


> The bracket would obviously be less visible in those pics as they are of less quality....
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525527249042161665There is more chance of U.S removing the system with the exception of the Canadian....
> Australia.... Weren't you a farmer in America a few weeks back....
> No wonder you beat about the bush so bad....



The M777s sent to the Uki Nazis have clearly been downgraded, and the in the video from the UAV you're not going to see detail to that degree. But the "military expert Latin American, Redneck, Ozzie, Chinese, farmer, military commander who trained Uki Nazis" has superhuman eyesight and can pick out those details. The clown sitting in his mum's basement with multiple identities is so butt hurt he's making up crap as he goes along.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525527249042161665
Uki Nazi M777






US M777

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## jhungary

Iron Shrappenel said:


> The bracket would obviously be less visible in those pics as they are of less quality....
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525527249042161665There is more chance of U.S removing the system with the exception of the Canadian....
> Australia.... Weren't you a farmer in America a few weeks back....
> No wonder you beat about the bush so bad....


Manage to find a M777 Ukrainian is using with the Bracket not the communication box






Now tell me where that bracket located in the picture below??








Corax said:


> The M777s sent to the Uki Nazis have clearly been downgraded, and the in the video from the UAV you're not going to see detail to that degree. But the "military expert Latin American, Redneck, Ozzie, Chinese, farmer, military commander who trained Uki Nazis" has superhuman eyesight and can pick out those details. The clown sitting in his mum's basement with multiple identities is so butt hurt he's making up crap as he goes along.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525527249042161665
> Uki Nazi M777
> 
> View attachment 855836
> 
> 
> US M777
> 
> View attachment 855837


Dude, if you can't see the bracket in this gun, you probably need to do an eye check (probably need an IQ test as well)






Are you telling me you can't see the bracket (The one inside the green circle) Now, show me where that bracket in this picture?? That bracket is not a small feature, it run the entire length of the Communication Box (as pictured) and it's probably half the height of that box .







If you think the two picture is the same, then you really do need a head check.

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## Corax

jhungary said:


> Manage to find a M777 Ukrainian is using with the Bracket not the communication box
> 
> View attachment 855838
> 
> 
> Are you telling me you can't see the bracket (The one inside the green circle) Now, show me where that bracket in this picture??
> 
> View attachment 855839



Was you dropped on your head as a boy?!  That's clearly an M777, partially camouflaged as the video showed the Uki Nazis covering them up with branches. But you're not going to see any mythical "bracket" 🤦‍♂️

Can you see the smoke, the branches?! Despite that, you can clearly see it's an M777.

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## jhungary

Corax said:


> Was you dropped on your head as a boy?!  That's clearly an M777, partially camouflaged as the video showed the Uki Nazis covering them up with branches. But you're not going to see any mythical "bracket" 🤦‍♂️


Then all I can say is that you are blind. That thing is as long and as big as the optical module (the cylinder) and you are telling me you can see the cylinder and not that Bracket??

LOL, boy, it's time to fit your eye patch     Or you got smack often by your mother from peeing in the bed that you cant see??

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## jhungary

Corax said:


> Live in your own delusion.


Lol, again resort to personal insult. Why am I not surprised??

Even Ray Charles can see it and if you cannot see it, don't blame me for it. I have even circle it and tell you where it was.


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## Paul2

Ukraine doesn't have much forests in much of the country, but tons of small villages in the east every few kilometres allows enemy to disperse, and hide.

East of the country is much more hilly, making long range direct fire easily avoidable.


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## Corax

jhungary said:


> Lol, again resort to personal insult.
> 
> Even Ray Charles can see it and if you cannot see it, don't blame me for it. I have even circle it and tell you where it was.



That's it...hand out negative ratings when you lose an argument! And what about your personal insults?

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## jhungary

Corax said:


> That's it...hand out negative ratings when you lose an argument! And what about your personal insults?


Where did I personally insult you? Or are you saying you can only dish but can't take  

And from where I see it, you resort to personal insult points to you losing an argument. 

Again, that thing is as big as a telephone box, and if you tell me you can't see it even I point it out and circle it in green, what am i suppose to do? Transfer my cornea to you??


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## NotSure

Corax said:


> Whatever "banana" brains    Live in your own delusion.


It's astonishing, how someone can be THAT butthurt about few howitzers. It's not a Nimitz Carrier, not a Virginia Class sub, no, only a few shitty, primitive towed howitzers and he is still arguing!

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## Corax

NotSure said:


> It's astonishing, how someone can be THAT butthurt about few howitzers. It's not a Nimitz Carrier, not a Virginia Class sub, no, only few shitty howitzers and he is still arguing!



Absolutely astonishing isn't?!!  I mean he claims to be a "military expert" who has "been there and trained Nazis", but is so deluded in his own fantasy that he can't even identify an M777..which by the way he claims to have "field stripped"!!  No wonder the Ukies are being wiped out if they've received training from this clown.

And then he hands out negative ratings when he's feeling butt hurt and shown to be wrong...what a child.

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## jhungary

NotSure said:


> It's astonishing, how someone can be THAT butthurt about few howitzers. It's not a Nimitz Carrier, not a Virginia Class sub, no, only a few shitty, primitive towed howitzers and he is still arguing!


First of all ginger, I already said Ukriane lost 4 M777 as per OSINT. I have no problem Ukrainian losing the system, it's just money, what I have problem is folks like you and @Corax try to put something out that is not true and when you were challenged and instead of taking apart my point by providing evidence, you resort to name calling and ignorant that and delusion this.

If you would have point it to me where it look like M777 instead of going on 20 post trying to throw personal insult then your arguement "MAY" have some merit. But no, that is not the path you take, and that is what I have problem with.

Even that dude @Iron Shrappenel tried, you two did nothing, that's worse of the worse.



Corax said:


> Absolutely astonishing isn't?!!  I mean he claims to be a "military expert" who has "been there and trained Nazis", but is so deluded in his own fantasy that he can't even identify an M777..which by the way he claims to have "field stripped"!!  No wonder the Ukies are being wiped out if they've received training from this clown.
> 
> And then he hands out negative ratings when he's feeling butt hurt and shown to be wrong...what a child.


I handed out negative rating because you throw baby tantum and throw out personal insult and calling people name.
If you can't elevate an argument over children playground, then don't partake in one in a public forum. If you keep on calling people name, I will keep on giving you -ve rating.

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## kingQamaR

the Ukrainians can't operate our modem equipment. All our 777 howitzers they got had to have all digital tech taken off so they can even use it


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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> the Ukrainians can't operate our modem equipment. All our 777 howitzers they got had to have all digital tech taken off so they can even use it


Not all, as I show there are some still have the communication box attached, and Canada is supplying Excalibur round means, they have to have that communication box to use them. Otherwise why supply them those round when you are just using them as normal base bleed round??

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539598272091807744

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## Iron Shrappenel

jhungary said:


> Manage to find a M777 Ukrainian is using with the Bracket not the communication box
> 
> View attachment 855838
> 
> 
> Now tell me where that bracket located in the picture below??
> 
> View attachment 855839
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, if you can't see the bracket in this gun, you probably need to do an eye check (probably need an IQ test as well)
> 
> View attachment 855840
> 
> 
> Are you telling me you can't see the bracket (The one inside the green circle) Now, show me where that bracket in this picture?? That bracket is not a small feature, it run the entire length of the Communication Box (as pictured) and it's probably half the height of that box .
> 
> 
> View attachment 855841
> 
> 
> If you think the two picture is the same, then you really do need a head check.


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## jhungary

Iron Shrappenel said:


>


look man, emoji anything you want. 

I am just saying I can't see either the bracket or the communication box in that picture and also the optical device on the other side, I have doubt that is a M777. I am more than happy it is or it isn't, as long as you can show me prove that go over my suspicion. 

As I said, I know M777 is destroyed by Russian, and OSINT have shown 4 wreck and there may be more, I have no problem M777 is being destroyed, anything can be destroyed. And this, I don't think it is, if you believe otherwise, you believe otherwise, but if you want to say that I was wrong, then you need to prove that I was wrong, otherwise that's just your belief.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539602517901955072


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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539602517901955072


The first BTR looks salvageable


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/15396066397367541

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539515564439351298


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## Iron Shrappenel

jhungary said:


> look man, emoji anything you want.
> 
> I am just saying I can't see either the bracket or the communication box in that picture and also the optical device on the other side, I have doubt that is a M777. I am more than happy it is or it isn't, as long as you can show me prove that go over my suspicion.
> 
> As I said, I know M777 is destroyed by Russian, and OSINT have shown 4 wreck and there may be more, I have no problem M777 is being destroyed, anything can be destroyed. And this, I don't think it is, if you believe otherwise, you believe otherwise, but if you want to say that I was wrong, then you need to prove that I was wrong, otherwise that's just your belief.


You can believe what you want to believe and I will believe in what can be clearly seen... One can't bee so naive to ignore the bushes those guys were putting up against the gun. the burnt debris and smoke can obscure view of the optical device... This is post firing so most probably they were trying to hide it.... The breach, gun length are all to similar to the M777 than any Russian gun. You were earlier posting here that you saw a shield but that story didn't hold up so you are chasing this... We can go down this rabbit hole but you will never reach the end if you keep on digging... That's an M777 in my opinion and in the majority of the members opinion with different opinions... Now, I don't have any issue in what you believe.... You can believe it's the Tooth fairy's wand if you want. I don't care. 
But asserting something that isn't should really raise questions with yourself.
Cheers.

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## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> Not all, as I show there are some still have the communication box attached, and Canada is supplying Excalibur round means, they have to have that communication box to use them. Otherwise why supply them those round when you are just using them as normal base bleed round??



The US has chosen the towed M777 over their self-propelled M109 howitzers for Ukraine because the M777 is inherently easier to maintain; the tracked M109s require months of training for the mechanics to keep them moving. The M777s are very mobile as well; they are in frontline service with US airborne and Stryker brigades. The CAESAR will be easier for the Ukrainians to maintain than M109s because the trucks are far easier for less-trained mechanics to understand. One issue for the Ukrainians in the near future is going to be the complicated logistics of maintaining all the different systems they are receiving from various countries, since it will be difficult to get the right spare parts to the right units at the frontier

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Su-35 attacking ground targets


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539550662928875521


kingQamaR said:


> The US has chosen the towed M777 over their self-propelled M109 howitzers for Ukraine because the M777 is inherently easier to maintain; the tracked M109s require months of training for the mechanics to keep them moving. The M777s are very mobile as well; they are in frontline service with US airborne and Stryker brigades. The CAESAR will be easier for the Ukrainians to maintain than M109s because the trucks are far easier for less-trained mechanics to understand. One issue for the Ukrainians in the near future is going to be the complicated logistics of maintaining all the different systems they are receiving from various countries, since it will be difficult to get the right spare parts to the right units at the frontier



Spare parts is the least of Kiev regime artillery men worries. Their biggest worry is Mi-28NM.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Russian army hammering Kiev regime which terrorizes Donbas children


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539545524868628485

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## jhungary

Iron Shrappenel said:


> You can believe what you want to believe and I will believe in what can be clearly seen... One can't bee so naive to ignore the bushes those guys were putting up against the gun. the burnt debris and smoke can obscure view of the optical device... This is post firing so most probably they were trying to hide it.... The breach, gun length are all to similar to the M777 than any Russian gun. You were earlier posting here that you saw a shield but that story didn't hold up so you are chasing this... We can go down this rabbit hole but you will never reach the end if you keep on digging... That's an M777 in my opinion and in the majority of the members opinion with different opinions... Now, I don't have any issue in what you believe.... You can believe it's the Tooth fairy's wand if you want. I don't care.
> But asserting something that isn't should really raise questions with yourself.
> Cheers.


You can't see the entire gun to know that was the right length and size. That number 1.

On the other hand, I don't buy the story that comes with the video. As I said, you have to be really naïve to believe Ukrainian is making a push on Snake Island, not just try to interdict the area. But a full on invasion of Snake Island..Sure, with Russian Navy still blockading Odessa. And then you tell me you send a regiment (RT said Platoon, which was never used to describe an Artillery Platoon) to cover the invasion?? Snake Island is not some inland island you can use artillery to cover an invasion, the last month or so the Ukrainian uses TBM and TB2 Drone on it. And am I supposed to buy this angle? And bring towed artillery to another island no less??

As I said, I have no problem you believe this is a M777, that's a different opinion, the only time I have problem is when you said I was wrong but yet you failed to produce anything to address my point. That is what I have problem with, as I said before at least you tried, unlike the other 2. And to be honest, I don't care what you think either, I am not here to please you, I am here to discuss military matter. And you can say I am wrong as long as you provide evidence that I was wrong. On the other hand, I will leave you with this picture. 

This is a similar drone footage from a Russian attack on a acknowledge M777 system. You can see the communication assembly or Bracket on this picture. You can see both the gap between the barrel and housing is different (As the bracket partially obstruct the Barrel) and you can clearly see the outline of the bracket on top of the gun.







Now compare to this






And to be honest with you, I was thinking of another fake photo I have already posted before when we start talking about this, I didn't know this is a new footage. That why I said it was a D-30 and there is a shield.



kingQamaR said:


> The US has chosen the towed M777 over their self-propelled M109 howitzers for Ukraine because the M777 is inherently easier to maintain; the tracked M109s require months of training for the mechanics to keep them moving. The M777s are very mobile as well; they are in frontline service with US airborne and Stryker brigades. The CAESAR will be easier for the Ukrainians to maintain than M109s because the trucks are far easier for less-trained mechanics to understand. One issue for the Ukrainians in the near future is going to be the complicated logistics of maintaining all the different systems they are receiving from various countries, since it will be difficult to get the right spare parts to the right units at the frontier


M777 is chosen mostly because they can be deploy quickly. EG you can take it apart in 90 minutes and bunch it on a couple of C-17 and it will be in Ukraine the next day. You can't do that with both M109 or M198 tow Howitzer. 

As I have explained before (with @Paul2 if I remember correctly, could be someone else, I forgot) This mix bag of weapon is only okay in a short run, in a long run, UK and other NATO country would need to help Ukraine build their own weapon, renting out NATO production line would be a near long term solution so they can make Ukrainian local made guns like 2S22, with all the different alphabet system, it would have been a logistical nightmare.

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## Corax

jhungary said:


> You can't see the entire gun to know that was the right length and size. That number 1.
> 
> On the other hand, I don't buy the story that comes with the video. As I said, you have to be really naïve to believe Ukrainian is making a push on Snake Island, not just try to interdict the area. But a full on invasion of Snake Island..Sure, with Russian Navy still blockading Odessa. And then you tell me you send a regiment (RT said Platoon, which was never used to describe an Artillery Platoon) to cover the invasion?? Snake Island is not some inland island you can use artillery to cover an invasion, the last month or so the Ukrainian uses TBM and TB2 Drone on it. And am I supposed to buy this angle? And bring towed artillery to another island no less??
> 
> As I said, I have no problem you believe this is a M777, that's a different opinion, the only time I have problem is when you said I was wrong but yet you failed to produce anything to address my point. That is what I have problem with, as I said before at least you tried, unlike the other 2. And to be honest, I don't care what you think either, I am not here to please you, I am here to discuss military matter. And you can say I am wrong as long as you provide evidence that I was wrong. On the other hand, I will leave you with this picture.
> 
> This is a similar drone footage from a Russian attack on a acknowledge M777 system. You can see the communication assembly or Bracket on this picture. You can see both the gap between the barrel and housing is different (As the bracket partially obstruct the Barrel) and you can clearly see the outline of the bracket on top of the gun.
> 
> View attachment 855855
> 
> 
> Now compare to this
> 
> View attachment 855856
> 
> 
> And to be honest with you, I was thinking of another fake photo I have already posted before when we start talking about this, I didn't know this is a new footage. That why I said it was a D-30 and there is a shield.



Where has it been claimed by the Russians that the video footage is of M777s being used to make a push on Snake Island? And you're comparing photos taken from videos of significantly different quality and zoom setting, you can't see detail to the same extent in those two different UAV footage. But you can see enough of the outline of an M777, that much is clear. Even a "non military expert" can see that, but the self proclaimed "military expert training Uki Nazis" can't even identify an M777, even though you've field stripped one right?!   Talk about shooting yourself in the foot....you've just posted pictures both showing M777s taken by Russian UAVs...and then claim they are not the same!!! 

So you finally admit you don't know what you're talking about!!



> And to be honest with you, I was thinking of another fake photo I have already posted before when we start talking about this, I didn't know this is a new footage. That why I said it was a D-30 and there is a shield.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539543075416154112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539529330652598273


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## jhungary

Corax said:


> Where has it been claimed by the Russians that the video footage is of M777s being used to make a push on Snake Island? And you're comparing photos taken from videos of significantly different quality and zoom setting, you can't see detail to the same extent in those two different UAV footage. But you can see enough of the outline of an M777, that much is clear. Even a "non military expert" can see that, but the self proclaimed "military expert training Uki Nazis" can't even identify an M777, even though you've field stripped one right?!


Dude, either do your own research or shut up about it. I hate to do your own homework for you









Russia says it destroyed equipment sent to Ukraine by U.S., European allies


The Russian Ministry of Defense said that the images show the "destruction of Ukraine's manpower and military equipment by the Russian Armed forces in Ukraine."




www.newsweek.com







> "Missile and artillery attacks at Snake Island were launched by Ukrainian Tochka-U ballistic missiles, Uragan multiple rocket launchers and *M777 155-mm howitzers from their combat positions to the west from Odessa and in Kubansky island*."
> 
> "Russian air defense means (Pantsir air defense missile and cannon system and Tor air defense missile system) have destroyed all the destruction means of the enemy launched at Snake Island
> The unsuccessful fire attack forced the enemy to abandon the landing to Snake Island.
> 
> *Two artillery platoons of M777 155-mm howitzers have been destroyed in Kubansky island.*



As for the rest of your post.

BAHHHAAHAAHAA    Even Ray Charles can see the bracket in the other drone footage, are you saying you have worse eyesight than Ray Charles?

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## Corax

jhungary said:


> Even Ray Charles *can see the bracket in the other drone footage*, are you saying you have worse eyesight than Ray Charles?



Hey Ray Charles....check your eyes and read again what you wrote!

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## kingQamaR

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Su-35 attacking ground targets
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539550662928875521
> 
> 
> Spare parts is the least of Kiev regime artillery men worries. Their biggest worry is Mi-28NM.




Ukraine says hello with a starstreak, mi-28

meets dirt face first.


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## jhungary

Corax said:


> Hey Ray Charles....check your eyes and read again what you wrote!


Oh my god.

Dude, really, go get your eye check  






Even Ray Charles can see the color reflected differently inside the red circle and you can literally see the outline of the bracket on the gun.

Dude, you want me to send you a white cane so you can cross the road??


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## Paul2

Kiselivka — Russians artillery returned to pound it. Were they out of shells?

Let's look whether Ukrainians can out-counterbat it.


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## Corax

jhungary said:


> Oh my god.
> 
> Dude, really, go get your eye check
> 
> View attachment 855862
> 
> 
> Even Ray Charles can see the color reflected differently inside the red circle and you can literally see the outline of the bracket on the gun.
> 
> Dude, you want me to send you a white cane so you can cross the road??



Corrected it for you    You've shot yourself in the foot...both are M777s

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## jhungary

Corax said:


> Corrected it for you    You've shot yourself in the foot...both are M777s
> 
> View attachment 855863
> 
> 
> View attachment 855864


Sure, ignore the part that you can see the bracket clearly but was missing on the other photo.

But then what do I expect from Mr White Cane like you??


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## Corax

jhungary said:


> Sure, ignore the part that you can see the bracket clearly.
> 
> But then what do I expect from Mr White Cane like you??



If you're such an expert, why don't you show us what howitzer it really is


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539612694592069632

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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539625744283963392


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## kingQamaR

If opposing forces have counter-fire radar the guns need to be moving directly after they finish firing their current mission. Other factors play in as well such as enemy air assets and observers


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## Apollon

Wood said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539625744283963392



@Corax so much for air superiority


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## Wood

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539617453663297536

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## jhungary

Corax said:


> If you're such an expert, why don't you show us what howitzer it really is


Well, there is a reason why there are 350 positive rating between you and me. 

You, don't know shit, pretend to know shit.

Me, I know shit, but when I don't know, I said I don't know.

As I said, this is not clear enough to say what it is. It DO look like M777 without said feature I said, and the story that comes with this is BS at best, laughable at worse. Ask me what this is? AS I told you 20 post ago. Unless they have a clearer satellite picture, you can't tell that is anything. As far as I concern, this could have been made in a studio. Again, if TV studio can make a Chieftain looks like an Abrams. it's not hard to make a 2S36 or any artillery system or even a few telegraph post looks like a M777. 

And I am more inclined for Russian to go back and take pic on that M777 wreckage if they really did destroy 2 platoon of M777, they would have put drone and satellite on site like crazy as this is a big propaganda win. Russia is not that type that destroy something advance from the west and keep it to themselves. So where is the battle damage assessment photo? You tell me. 

But it's not hard to see the Russian story is create to hook on 5 years old, and from where I am seeing it, it work pretty well on you.

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## Corax

Apollon said:


> @Corax so much for air superiority



The same "air superiority" that Patriot systems provided the Saudis against Iranian drone strikes on their oil refineries?!  grow up, learn something, then come back and bark.



jhungary said:


> Well, there is a reason why there are 350 positive rating between you and me.
> 
> You, don't know shit, pretend to know shit.
> 
> Me, I know shit, but when I don't know, I said I don't know.
> 
> As I said, this is not clear enough to say what it is. It DO look like M777 without said feature I said, and the story that comes with this is BS at best, laughable at worse. Ask me what this is? AS I told you 20 post ago. Unless they have a clearer satellite picture, you can't tell that is anything. As far as I concern, this could have been made in a studio. Again, if TV studio can make a Chieftain looks like an Abrams. it's not hard to make a 2S36 or any artillery system or even a few telegraph post looks like a M777.
> 
> And I am more inclined for Russian to go back and take pic on that M777 wreckage if they really did destroy 2 platoon of M777, they would have put drone and satellite on site like crazy as this is a big propaganda win. Russia is not that type that destroy something advance from the west and keep it to themselves. So where is the battle damage assessment photo? You tell me.
> 
> But it's not hard to see the Russian story is create to hook on 5 years old, and from where I am seeing it, it work pretty well on you.


 you know **** all...just spouting BS about how you're an "expert" who trained the Uki Nazis. So now you're claiming this is all a Russian hoax with fake M777s?!!  if you can't show what these howitzers are, STFU. They are M777s and you need a ton of burnoil for your butt hurt

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## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> Well, there is a reason why there are 350 positive rating between you and me.
> 
> You, don't know shit, pretend to know shit.
> 
> Me, I know shit, but when I don't know, I said I don't know.
> 
> As I said, this is not clear enough to say what it is. It DO look like M777 without said feature I said, and the story that comes with this is BS at best, laughable at worse. Ask me what this is? AS I told you 20 post ago. Unless they have a clearer satellite picture, you can't tell that is anything. As far as I concern, this could have been made in a studio. Again, if TV studio can make a Chieftain looks like an Abrams. it's not hard to make a 2S36 or any artillery system or even a few telegraph post looks like a M777.
> 
> And I am more inclined for Russian to go back and take pic on that M777 wreckage if they really did destroy 2 platoon of M777, they would have put drone and satellite on site like crazy as this is a big propaganda win. Russia is not that type that destroy something advance from the west and keep it to themselves. So where is the battle damage assessment photo? You tell me.
> 
> But it's not hard to see the Russian story is create to hook on 5 years old, and from where I am seeing it, it work pretty well on you.




That guy is still going on and on about a couple M777 losses  He does realize another 18 are on the way and the US, Canada, and Australia have provided nearly 130 howitzers

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## _Nabil_

ckf said:


> Have you seen Resevoir Dog?


Nope



ckf said:


> Where they give out names to all the thieves, where it was funny that "Mr. Brown" took exception to being called "Mr. Brown". I know too many honkytonks with bricks up their asses that need to lighten up and clear out all the negativity in their system. Just take a laxative and called it a night.


No idea what you are talking about, but nevermind....


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## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> That guy is still going on and on about a couple M777 losses  He does realize another 18 are on the way and the US, Canada, and Australia have provided nearly 130 howitzers



Wow, 18! My god the Russians must be quaking in their boots!!  The same way you and your lapdogs bark about a few token HIMARS and M777s, which are clearly being destroyed, but your poodles seem to be butt hurt and denial about it

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## jhungary

_Nabil_ said:


> Nope
> 
> 
> No idea what you are talking about, but nevermind....


He is saying nicknaming people with color (as in reservoir dog) some people think calling people by color is not appropriate, and people with shit up their arse would have a problem with that, but it was used anyway, by the way, Mr Brown is played by Tarantino himself. 

On the other hand, color is one of the more frequently use code for units. I don't see any problem calling me Mr White, Mr Black or calling my entire Unit Red or Blue or Green. Not sure if that was implied by him tho.


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## F-22Raptor

Corax said:


> Wow, 18! My god the Russians must be quaking in their boots!!  The same way you and your lapdogs bark about a few token HIMARS and M777s, which are clearly being destroyed, but your poodles seem to be butt hurt and denial about it




The Russians have lost a third of their armored force in 4 months. That’s all that needs to be said.


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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> That guy is still going on and on about a couple M777 losses  He does realize another 18 are on the way and the US, Canada, and Australia have provided nearly 130 howitzers


Well, he is just trying to pushing on. 

That guy goes 20 post just going off about that, it would have been more convincing if he at least try to challenge my point, but he is all arse when he didn't, I don't mind going around with him, it's fun to see him squirm like a little kid.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> Ukraine says hello with a starstreak, mi-28
> 
> meets dirt face first.



Mi-28NM can kill Starstreak from 20 km away using BVR missiles. Starstreak can't touch Mi-28NM.

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## Corax

jhungary said:


> Well, he is just trying to pushing on.
> 
> That guy goes 20 post just going off about that, it would have been more convincing if he at least try to challenge my point, but he is all arse when he didn't, I don't mind going around with him, it's fun to see him squirm like a little kid.



The only "arse" here is someone who throws his dummy out of his pram when he's proven wrong. And you still haven't identified those howitzers "mr expert bs"

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians have lost a third of their armored force in 4 months. That’s all that needs to be said.



Russia can afford to lose 10 million men. Can't say the same about the Kiev regime.


----------



## Corax

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians have lost a third of their armored force in 4 months. That’s all that needs to be said.



30,000 or more Uki Nazis also roasted and most of their armour destroyed as they beg for more Soviet junk from their neighbours

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## F-22Raptor

Ukrainian forces getting very close to Kherson, which is much more strategically important than Severodonetsk BTW.

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## jhungary

Corax said:


> Wow, 18! My god the Russians must be quaking in their boots!!  The same way you and your lapdogs bark about a few token HIMARS and M777s, which are clearly being destroyed, but your poodles seem to be butt hurt and denial about it


Sure sure sure, everything is being destroyed by Russian. 

Is that the reason why they lost 2000 Tanks and APC?? And have progressive holding less land since operation started in Feb 24??

Russian Occupation on March 27, 2022






Russian occupation of Ukraine on May 15, 2022, Oops, Kyiv is Gone, Chernihiv is gone 






Russian Occupation on Ukraine June 1, 2022 Oops, Kharkiv is gone, Sumy is gone






Russian Occupation in Ukraine June 21, 2022 Oops, Kherson is now being push too.






Really want to know what's the Russian next Phase, with every Phase, they hold less land.......lol.....

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## bagi2022

UK M6 Ex Director Interview with Dr Tahir regarding Russian and Ukraine issue

Interesting Q & A. Must watch


----------



## _Nabil_

jhungary said:


> Again, same principal applies.
> 
> If I call Turks or Egyptian are "Sand Nergo" (Can't use that word I want to use but you should know the term) That probably meant as a joke, But what if I say it in your face and call you "Com'ere Sand Nergo" does that mean a joke to you or do you find that funny??
> 
> How about African and the "N" word. If I say all African are "ni..er", that is an untasteful joke, borderline racist. But when I come up to a Black American I don't know and say "Hey Ni..ger" do you think he would still think this is an untasteful joke??
> 
> I mean if you don't find it offensive, then you don't leave him negative rating, but does that mean because he call me a banana and that does not offend you, then I shouldn't feel offended??


Really strange when your logic, thinking, organisation of ideas,... in the military field disappear completely upon a funny joke.!!!!

That Banana joke is just a smart Parallel, it only mean Asian outside, Western inside, what's offense you want to insinuate to it by force???

All the examples you gave aren't jokes, they are pure racist statement, you are purposely are diverting the matter.

*Strange how people can act with reason on some fields, but feel insecure and have to bash people with the so called "power" of Negative Rating or banning upon a soft joke.*

That's my 2 cents on the matter ....

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## jhungary

Corax said:


> The only "arse" here is someone who throws his dummy out of his pram when he's proven wrong. And you still haven't identified those howitzers "mr expert bs"


lol. Well, I don't know Ray Charles can see  HAHAHA       



_Nabil_ said:


> Really strange when you logic, thinking, organisation of ideas,... in the military field disappear completely upon a funny joke.!!!!
> 
> That Banana joke is just a smart Parallel, it only mean Asian outside, Western inside, what's offense you want to insinuate to it by force???
> 
> All the examples you gave aren't jokes, they are pure racist statement, you are purposely are diverting the matter.
> 
> *Strange how people can act with reason on some fields, but feel insecure and have to bash people with the so called "power" of Negative Rating or banning upon a soft joke.*
> 
> That's my 2 cents on the matter ....


Well, that's your 2 cents.

Probably because you aren't asian, so you don't think that is offensive, this is as much as I don't find Sand Ni..er offensive as I am not a Middle Eastern or Nig..r offensive as I am 1/8 black from my father Hispanic side, in fact, I call many of my friend ni..er

How something is perceive offensive is up to individual, you may not think being call Chico (short for Chicano) is offensive, that does not mean I have to have the same finding as yours, and then there are more complicated issue such as why Black people don't mind other black call them ni..er but they mind other does.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Ukrainians being trained on HIMARS and the Digital Fire Control System

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## _Nabil_

jhungary said:


> He is saying nicknaming people with color (as in reservoir dog) some people think calling people by color is not appropriate, and people with shit up their arse would have a problem with that, but it was used anyway, by the way, Mr Brown is played by Tarantino himself.
> 
> On the other hand, color is one of the more frequently use code for units. I don't see any problem calling me Mr White, Mr Black or calling my entire Unit Red or Blue or Green. Not sure if that was implied by him tho.


Thanks for insights 

Just noticed the laxative reference, as I just re-read his post.

Is he promoting Lgbt?? 😁🤣


----------



## jhungary

Corax said:


> -----


Oh well,. seems like you can't hold a conversation without insulting someone. Well. I am going to ignore you from now on

Run along now, boy.  



_Nabil_ said:


> Thanks for insights
> 
> Just noticed the laxative reference, as I just re-read his post.
> 
> Is he promoting Lgbt?? 😁🤣


more like sausage only......

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539393963769077762

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539400774123388928

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539547331187572736

Ukrainian kamikaze drone striking in Russian territory

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## kingQamaR

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Mi-28NM can kill Starstreak from 20 km away using BVR missiles. Starstreak can't touch Mi-28NM.



All air defence systems aim for two things: attrition and deterrence. Actually shooting down enemy aircraft is good, but if you can actually keep them away entirely through fear of being shotdown, that is actually better. A Russian pilot who sees a missile flash past him isn’t going to know if it's a Strela or a Stinger, and aren't likely to stick around to find out.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539621197909999616

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539393963769077762
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539400774123388928
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539547331187572736
> 
> Ukrainian kamikaze drone striking in Russian territory



I think Ukraine did not yet taken responsibility, probably is them, but I read somewhere the Russian themselves denied it



F-22Raptor said:


> View attachment 855878
> 
> 
> Ukrainian forces getting very close to Kherson, which is much more strategically important than Severodonetsk BTW.


They are going to push on to Kherson, its just some 10km away. 

What Russian is doing is effectively squeeze troop from everywhere, and attacking somewhere it wasn't really important. That's a big strategic mistake because you will want to keep Kherson as it is a direct line to Crimea. if an when Kherson fall, Ukraine will most likely launch a counter attack toward Melitopol.



kingQamaR said:


> All air defence systems aim for two things: attrition and deterrence. Actually shooting down enemy aircraft is good, but if you can actually keep them away entirely through fear of being shotdown, that is actually better. A Russian pilot who sees a missile flash past him isn’t going to know if it's a Strela or a Stinger, and aren't likely to stick around to find out.


Screw that, I want to see how Mi-28 can lock on a dude with starstreak.......Dude is living in his dream world........

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539612694592069632


F-22Raptor said:


> View attachment 855878
> 
> 
> Ukrainian forces getting very close to Kherson, which is much more strategically important than Severodonetsk BTW.



Not gonna happen. Kherson is a big city. Plus, Kherson is vital for Crimea's water supply so Kherson is off limits.

If the Kiev regime touches Kherson then Russia obliterates Nikolaiv in retaliation so I think the Kiev regime will think twice about touching Kherson.



jhungary said:


> They are going to push on to Kherson, its just some 10km away.
> 
> What Russian is doing is effectively squeeze troop from everywhere, and attacking somewhere it wasn't really important. That's a big strategic mistake because you will want to keep Kherson as it is a direct line to Crimea. if an when Kherson fall, Ukraine will most likely launch a counter attack toward Melitopol.



If the Kiev regime touches Kherson then Russia declare war on Ukraine and mobilize 10 million Russian men. Keep in mind Russia has 4 times the man power compared to the Kiev regime, 147 million people compared to 37 million people, and that's not counting rebels.

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## jhungary

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539612694592069632
> 
> 
> Not gonna happen. Kherson is a big city. Plus, Kherson is vital for Crimea's water supply so Kherson is off limits.
> 
> If the Kiev regime touches Kherson then Russia obliterates Nikolaiv in retaliation so I think the Kiev regime will think twice about touching Kherson.
> 
> 
> 
> If the Kiev regime touches Kherson then Russia declare war on Ukraine and mobilize 10 million Russian men. Keep in mind Russia has 4 times the man power compared to the Kiev regime, 147 million people compared to 37 million people, and that's not counting rebels.


Is this guy for real?

Sure, Ukraine don't dare touch Kherson, and for that effect, Ukraine should not have recover any land because Russian will just blow X, Y and Z up, they may as well surrender now.........lol

Do you know what is a war? This is a very basic, fundamental question. .........

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> Is this guy for real?
> 
> Sure, Ukraine don't dare touch Kherson, and for that effect, Ukraine should not have recover any land because Russian will just blow X, Y and Z up, they may as well surrender now.........lol
> 
> Do you know what is a war? This is a very basic, fundamental question. .........



Kherson is vital to Crimea's water. Crimea is officially Russian land. Russians blew up the dam in Kherson the Kiev regime built to block water to Crimea. Russians would fight tooth and nail for Kherson if the Kiev regime touches Kherson. Russia has 4 times the man power as the Kiev regime, 147 million people compared to 37 million people, and that's not counting rebels. If I were the Kiev regime I would not be playing with fire. Russia mobilizing 10 million men would be devastating for the Kiev regime.

Touch Kherson can also force Russia's hand to become more brutal and target the dams which are also roads on the Dnipr river, causing flooding and millions of deaths in Ukraine.

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## jhungary

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Kherson is vital to Crimea's water. Crimea is officially Russian land. Russians blew up the dam in Kherson the Kiev regime built to block water to Crimea. Russians would fight tooth and nail for Kherson if the Kiev regime touches Kherson. Russia has 4 times the man power as the Kiev regime, 147 million people compared to 37 million people, and that's not counting rebels. If I were the Kiev regime I would not be playing with fire. Russia mobilizing 10 million men would be devastating for the Kiev regime.


Again, you do know there is a war going on, right?

I am not saying anything else, but you do know that is a ground reality. 

This is not some football game you play, this is a war, you kind of expected that when the Russia go across the border and come kill you in your land. Or do you think Ukraine will care "If Russian mobilise all their people blah blah blah" because you can say "I will mobilise everyone" just about everything, as I said, if you really think this is logical. Ukraine would have surrendered a long time ago lol.

Hence, are you for real??

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539644427018174465

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539638682436702208


jhungary said:


> Again, you do know there is a war going on, right?
> 
> I am not saying anything else, but you do know that is a ground reality.
> 
> This is not some football game you play, this is a war, you kind of expected that when the Russia go across the border and come kill you in your land. Or do you think Ukraine will care "If Russian mobilise all their people blah blah blah" because you can say "I will mobilise everyone" just about everything, as I said, if you really think this is logical. Ukraine would have surrendered a long time ago lol.
> 
> Hence, are you for real??



True, it is war. But so far Russians have been humane. They haven't targeted power plants and dams with cruise missiles. If Kherson is touched, then brutality will come into play. Targeting such vital infrastructure would lead to the deaths of millions of Ukrainians within a year. Millions of German and Japanese civilians were targeted and killed this way in WW2.

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> View attachment 855878
> 
> 
> Ukrainian forces getting very close to Kherson, which is much more strategically important than Severodonetsk BTW.



Agree - if they can liberate Kherson - then the entire landbridge with Crimea can be taken out entirely and they can roll up to Mariupol and retake that aswell.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539623891005489152


Ali_Baba said:


> Agree - if they can liberate Kherson - then the entire landbridge with Crimea can be taken out entirely and they can roll up to Mariupol and retake that aswell.



If the Kiev regime touches Kherson then China joins the war against the Kiev regime which shells Donbas children. China has 1.4 billion people and now with bridge over Amur river operational they will swarm the Kiev regime with overwhelming man power advantage.

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## jhungary

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539638682436702208
> 
> 
> True, it is war. But so far Russians have been humane. They haven't targeted power plants and dams with cruise missiles. If Kherson is touched, then brutality will come into play. Targeting such vital infrastructure would lead to the deaths of millions of Ukrainians within a year. Millions of German and Japanese civilians were targeted and killed this way in WW2.


You do know Ukraine depends on 5 Nuclear Powerplant to supply electricity to the entire country, I can tell you this, if Russia target any or all 5, you probably wipe Ukraine and Western Russia off the map by all the nuclear explosion and nuclear fall out. 

And Russia have been humane?? LOL don't make me laugh please, just go look at how or what happened to Mariupol, Sieverodonetsk, Popasna and Lyman.......Sure, flatten the entire city and make the entire city homeless is humane......

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539619251446812673

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539593363086876672


Ali_Baba said:


> Agree - if they can liberate Kherson - then the entire landbridge with Crimea can be taken out entirely and they can roll up to Mariupol and retake that aswell.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539652342718406656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539603733277016064

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Su-35 attacking radars using anti radar missiles.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539579858963030016

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539596738016706561

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539596738016706561



Easily destroyed by Mi-28NM using BVR missiles.


----------



## Elvin

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Racist much? Zelensky is Jewish. Jewish is less than 1% of Ukraine's population.



What? He is Jewish but he is Ukrainian, not Russian. To suggest religion only determines if you're Ukrainian or not is ludicrous and narrow minded.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539652996476567553

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539433246513037317

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539651510576902144


Elvin said:


> What? He is Jewish but he is Ukrainian, not Russian. To suggest religion only determines if you're Ukrainian or not is ludicrous and narrow minded.



There is no difference in genetics between Ukrainian and Russian.

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## Paul2

Ali_Baba said:


> Agree - if they can liberate Kherson - then the entire landbridge with Crimea can be taken out entirely and they can roll up to Mariupol and retake that aswell.



Retaking Crimea will deny Russian a free reign with airpower over South Ukraine, it costs more than Marioupol.

Given the extreme symbolic importnace of Crimea to Russia, they will likelly pull from Donbas, or at least divert huge portion of forces.

The destroyed bridge is all they need to slowly strangle Russian force there, as there are nobody guarding bases there now besides a skeleton force to deter sabotage.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Paul2 said:


> Retaking Crimea will deny Russian a free reign with airpower over South Ukraine, it costs more than Marioupol.
> 
> Given the extreme symbolic importnace of Crimea to Russia, they will likelly pull from Donbas, or at least divert huge portion of forces.
> 
> The destroyed bridge is all they need to slowly strangle Russian force there, as there are nobody guarding bases there now besides a skeleton force to deter sabotage.



Invasion of Crimea triggers China invasion of Ukraine. China has 1.4 billion people. Ukraine has 36 million people. Ukraine would be devastated by China.


----------



## Elvin

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539652996476567553
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539433246513037317
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539651510576902144
> 
> 
> There is no difference in genetics between Ukrainian and Russian.



Now that is RACIST to take it to Genetics. In theory all Slavs are genetically similar, but through time they developed and matured their own identities. To come in and say you're not something is racist and crazy. Perhaps the Scandinavians are the same too but you don't see them killing each other over it. 

This is why China or Russia will never be allowed to dominate the world because their way of thinking is primitive and cannot comprehend the bigger picture when it comes to identity.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539549732523196416


Elvin said:


> Now that is RACIST to take it to Genetics. In theory all Slavs are genetically similar, but through time they developed and matured their own identities. To come in and say you're not something is racist and crazy. Perhaps the Scandinavians are the same too but you don't see them killing each other over it.
> 
> This is why China or Russia will never be allowed to dominate the world because their way of thinking is primitive and cannot comprehend the bigger picture when it comes to identity.



Same language can have many countries. Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Leichtenstein all speak German.


----------



## Elvin

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Invasion of Crimea triggers China invasion of Ukraine. China has 1.4 billion people. Ukraine has 36 million people. Ukraine would be devastated by China.



As if China would spend all of their people, resources, etc. to fight Ukraine. So child like to think that, in theory the US could have obliterated Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria over a weekend but they did not. It is all measures, risk based approach, is it worth it? You have to know when to pull back. According to your thinking China should go ALL in on a hypothetical invasion of Ukraine thereby making itself weaker and more vulnerable. Yes good job, go make decisions for China .



Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539549732523196416
> 
> 
> Same language can have many countries. Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Leichtenstein all speak German.



Ukrainian is different from Russian and is more related to Polish.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539547475190681600


Elvin said:


> Ukrainian is different from Russian and is more related to Polish.



False. Ukrainian, Belarussian, Russian are the 3 eastern Slavic languages. Genetically, Russia is mostly Uralic. Moskva is an Uralic word. Slavs conquered Russia in the middle ages. Uralics are native Russians. Likewise, Saxons conquered Britain in the middle ages. Britons are natives of Britain.









East Slavs - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## Elvin

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539547475190681600
> 
> 
> False. Ukrainian, Belarussian, Russian are the 3 eastern Slavic languages. Genetically, Russia is mostly Uralic. Moskva is an Uralic word. Slavs conquered Russia in the middle ages. Uralics are native Russians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> East Slavs - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



Nope, Polish can also be considered "Eastern Slavic." Belarussian is also very different from Russian, many Russians who live in Belarus enroll their kids into language school for a REASON. 

They are all Slavic rooted languages but not the same.


----------



## jhungary

Elvin said:


> As if China would spend all of their people, resources, etc. to fight Ukraine. So child like to think that, in theory the US could have obliterated Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria over a weekend but they did not. It is all measures, risk based approach, is it worth it? You have to know when to pull back. According to your thinking China should go ALL in on a hypothetical invasion of Ukraine thereby making itself weaker and more vulnerable. Yes good job, go make decisions for China .
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian is different from Russian and is more related to Polish.


lol, he was just yapping about Russia will fully mobilise to fight Ukraine if Ukraine attack Kherson, a part of Ukraine to begin with. Now he is talking about China will invade Ukraine if Ukraine attack Crimea..........lol

What next, the entire world attack Ukraine if Ukraine dare to recover their own land stolen by Russia??

lol, you got to admire his naivety, it's almost innocents. Yes, *ALMOST*.....

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Elvin said:


> Nope, Polish can also be considered "Eastern Slavic." Belarussian is also very different from Russian, many Russians who live in Belarus enroll their kids into language school for a REASON.
> 
> They are all Slavic rooted languages but not the same.



Minor differences. Genetically they are all very similar. Chinese on the other hand are genetically different.


----------



## Elvin

Who uses Wikipedia anymore? That site is filled with bots and government paid trolls to re-write history.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> Minor differences. Genetically they are all very similar. Chinese on the other hand are genetically different.



Similar yes, the same NO. 

This is the issue with primitive nations, they think what happened 1000 years ago should govern today. How about we free the Tibetans and the Uighurs because they are not Han, so they can secede.. okay with you?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539669381328048128


Elvin said:


> Who uses Wikipedia anymore? That site is filled with bots and government paid trolls to re-write history.
> 
> 
> 
> Similar yes, the same NO.
> 
> This is the issue with primitive nations, they think what happened 1000 years ago should govern today. How about we free the Tibetans and the Uighurs because they are not Han, so they can secede.. okay with you?



What ethnicity is this guy? He could be Russian. Or he could be Ukrainian. Genetically, no difference between Russian and Ukrainian.



https://www.youtube.com/c/RoadHomeMotorcycleVlogs





jhungary said:


> lol, he was just yapping about Russia will fully mobilise to fight Ukraine if Ukraine attack Kherson, a part of Ukraine to begin with. Now he is talking about China will invade Ukraine if Ukraine attack Crimea..........lol
> 
> What next, the entire world attack Ukraine if Ukraine dare to recover their own land stolen by Russia??
> 
> lol, you got to admire his naivety, it's almost innocents. Yes, *ALMOST*.....



Now that the bridge across the Amur river is operational, China can move hundreds of Type 99A2 tanks and PLZ-05 howitzers to Donbas very easily by rail. Trust me, the Kiev regime don't want to mess with the Chinese army which is the most powerful army in the world.

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## ZeGerman

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Kherson is vital to Crimea's water. Crimea is officially Russian land. Russians blew up the dam in Kherson the Kiev regime built to block water to Crimea. Russians would fight tooth and nail for Kherson if the Kiev regime touches Kherson. Russia has 4 times the man power as the Kiev regime, 147 million people compared to 37 million people, and that's not counting rebels. If I were the Kiev regime I would not be playing with fire. Russia mobilizing 10 million men would be devastating for the Kiev regime.
> 
> Touch Kherson can also force Russia's hand to become more brutal and target the dams which are also roads on the Dnipr river, causing flooding and millions of deaths in Ukraine.


Arent you getting tired repeating the same trash argument over and over again?

Do you know how often a more populous country actually lost to a smaller country?? 
What nonsense it is to use as an “there is no hope cause they have x amount more people” in a military and historical discussion board? 

Stop polluting the thread with this insult to our intelligence. 
Even if you are a paid chinese internet propagandist, atleast put some effort into your paycheck.


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## KendoKhan

Russian reinforcements headed to Ukraine

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## Soldier35

The Ukrainian army attacked the Russian Novoshakhtinsky oil refinery in the Rostov region with the help of a drone. As a result of the strike, a fire broke out at the Novoshakhtinsk oil refinery, as reported by the media, there were two drones, the fire started when one of them crashed into the structure of the plant. There is a fire at an oil refinery
contained, no casualties.


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## ZeGerman

ZeGerman said:


> Arent you getting tired repeating the same trash argument over and over again?
> 
> Do you know how often a more populous country actually lost to a smaller country??
> What nonsense it is to use as an “there is no hope cause they have x amount more people” in a military and historical discussion board?
> 
> Stop polluting the thread with this insult to our intelligence.
> Even if you are a paid chinese internet propagandist, atleast put some effort into your paycheck.


Russia is not fully mobilizing cause that will hurt his standing with the population and weaken his grip on power. 
More so when the body bags start to mount. 

Ukranians on the other hand are much more motivated to fight to defend their homeland.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> Arent you getting tired repeating the same trash argument over and over again?
> 
> Do you know how often a more populous country actually lost to a smaller country??
> What nonsense it is to use as an “there is no hope cause they have x amount more people” in a military and historical discussion board?
> 
> Stop polluting the thread with this insult to our intelligence.
> Even if you are a paid chinese internet propagandist, atleast put some effort into your paycheck.



While it is possible for a smaller sized army to overwhelm a larger sized army, as in the case of Spanish conquistadors which took down Aztecs and Incans, such a scenario is only possible with overwhelming technological advantage. Case in point, Aztecs and Incans didn't have steel weapons. Their obsidian weapons were useless against Spanish steel armor. In order for Ukrainians to beat Russians, they would have to have vastly superior military hardware compared to what Russians use.

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## Viet

Interesting statement in parliament

Germany’s defense minister Lambrecht officially declares Russia as “Feind”, enemy.
Beginning next week artillery troop of Ukraine army will receive training how to use multiple rocket launchers Mars 2.






Bild vergrößern
Verteidigungsministerin Christine Lambrecht (SPD) bei der Befragung im Bundestag

Foto: Christian Mang / REUT


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> Russia is not fully mobilizing cause that will hurt his standing with the population and weaken his grip on power.
> More so when the body bags start to mount.
> 
> Ukranians on the other hand are much more motivated to fight to defend their homeland.



However, if Ukrainians invade Kherson and threaten Crimea's water, then Russians population will demand mass mobilization.



Viet said:


> Interesting statement in parliament
> 
> Germany’s defense minister Lambrecht officially declares Russia as “Feind”, enemy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bild vergrößern
> Verteidigungsministerin Christine Lambrecht (SPD) bei der Befragung im Bundestag
> 
> Foto: Christian Mang / REUT



Old news. Germany is Russia's enemy since 1800s.

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## Elvin

ZeGerman said:


> Russia is not fully mobilizing cause that will hurt his standing with the population and weaken his grip on power.
> More so when the body bags start to mount.
> 
> Ukranians on the other hand are much more motivated to fight to defend their homeland.




The Russians have activated their professional army - they are throwing all of their best trained units into the Ukraine fight - over 160,000 deployed and they will need to be rotated out in a month or two with fresh troops. A deceleration of war and general mobilization would essentially institute a draft in Russia. This means that their 1 million strong professional military is not enough to take eastern Ukraine.

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## ZeGerman

Tai Hai Chen said:


> While it is possible for a smaller sized army to overwhelm a larger sized army, as in the case of Spanish conquistadors which took down Aztecs and Incans, such a scenario is only possible with overwhelming technological advantage. Case in point, Aztecs and Incans didn't have steel weapons. Their obsidian weapons were useless against Spanish steel armor. In order for Ukrainians to beat Russians, they would have to have vastly superior military hardware compared to what Russians use.


Technical edge can matter. But motivation, morale, training just as much. 

See vietnam, see israel, see germany vs france. 

And this is what we will see in ukraine as well.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Interesting statement in parliament
> 
> Germany’s defense minister Lambrecht officially declares Russia as “Feind”, enemy.
> Beginning next week artillery troop of Ukraine army will receive training how to use multiple rocket launchers Mars 2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bild vergrößern
> Verteidigungsministerin Christine Lambrecht (SPD) bei der Befragung im Bundestag
> 
> Foto: Christian Mang / REUT



Germany's whole population in infected by fuzzballs. Germany is a joke. And they think they can beat Russia in a war. 



Viet said:


> Interesting statement in parliament
> 
> Germany’s defense minister Lambrecht officially declares Russia as “Feind”, enemy.
> Beginning next week artillery troop of Ukraine army will receive training how to use multiple rocket launchers Mars 2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bild vergrößern
> Verteidigungsministerin Christine Lambrecht (SPD) bei der Befragung im Bundestag
> 
> Foto: Christian Mang / REUT



MARS 2 has huge RCS. Mi-28NM tracks it using radar from dozens of km away and destroys it using BVR missiles.



ZeGerman said:


> Technical edge can matter. But motivation, morale, training just as much.
> 
> See vietnam, see israel, see germany vs france.
> 
> And this is what we will see in ukraine as well.



Russians have more motivation than Ukrainians. Donbas is considered the heart of Russia. On top of that, Kherson is vital for Crimea's water supply.









DIRECT TRANSLATION: 'Donbas, the Heart of Russia'


A Commentator Close to Putin Writes: Unitary Ukraine is Finished A prominent Russian business magazine, Ekspert, publishes a lead article this week by two




www.atlanticcouncil.org

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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> However, if Ukrainians invade Kherson and threaten Crimea's water, then Russians population will demand mass mobilization.
> 
> 
> 
> Old news. Germany is Russia's enemy since 1800s.


It’s Putin’s choice. He wants war. He gets it. Germany just responds.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> It’s Putin’s choice. He wants war. He gets it. Germany just responds.



Good. Send all of Germany's artillery to Donbas. Mi-28NM will track them down with radar and blow them up with BVR missiles.

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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Good. Send all of Germany's artillery to Donbas. Mi-28NM will track them down with radar and blow them up with BVR missiles.


Germany has “Tiger”.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Germany has “Tiger”.



Good. Send all of Germany's Tiger to Donbas, Mi-28NM track them down with radar and shoot them up with BVR missiles. Germany has been an accomplice in the murder of thousands of Donbas children. It's about time Germany pays the price for committing war crimes and crimes against humanity.

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Good. Send all of Germany's Tiger to Donbas, Mi-28NM track them down with radar and shoot them up with BVR missiles. Germany has been an accomplice in the murder of thousands of Donbas children. It's about time Germany pays the price for committing war crimes and crimes against humanity.


Rumor has it that one Mi-28NM can destroy an entire carrier strike group.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539683292626227201


MeFishToo said:


> Rumor has it that one Mi-28NM can destroy an entire carrier strike group.



It's certainly a threat. Iranian Mohajer 6 drones been flying over American carriers undetected.









Iran flew surveillance drone over US aircraft carrier near Persian Gulf


Revolutionary Guard force flew drone over the USS Nimitz aircraft carrier which last week transited through the Strait of Hormuz




www.theguardian.com

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## ILC

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539623891005489152
> 
> 
> If the Kiev regime touches Kherson then China joins the war against the Kiev regime which shells Donbas children. China has 1.4 billion people and now with bridge over Amur river operational they will swarm the Kiev regime with overwhelming man power advantage.


Lol, If Russia starts losing Crimea then China would not only do nothing, but Xi probably will be a new Marxist department advisor instead of the head of China. Losing Crimea is Russia becoming a failed state, I think they will use tactical nukes instead.


----------



## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539683292626227201
> 
> 
> It's certainly a threat. Iranian Mohajer 6 drones been flying over American carriers undetected.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iran flew surveillance drone over US aircraft carrier near Persian Gulf
> 
> 
> Revolutionary Guard force flew drone over the USS Nimitz aircraft carrier which last week transited through the Strait of Hormuz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com


If all this russian weaponry is so powerful, how come they dont use it and finish this war in Ukraine? Could it be its all just a figment of your imagination?


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539508013052137472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539561982264848384

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539587541623513089

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539292901917790215

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539702086715285504
Russia to completely exhaust themselves. They barely move a km today.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539577608622419968

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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539702086715285504
> Russia to completely exhaust themselves. They barely move a km today.



This aligns with reports the Ukrainians believe Russian offensive capability will collapse in August.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539704793513574402

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539663137871626240

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Wow Wow:
2


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539663137871626240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539707673322610689

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539707673322610689

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539707673322610689

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539707673322610689

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1


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## nang2

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539702086715285504
> Russia to completely exhaust themselves. They barely move a km today.





F-22Raptor said:


> This aligns with reports the Ukrainians believe Russian offensive capability will collapse in August.


We will see about that in August. 

And I don't think the slow advance is a problem. What Russians are doing now is to kill as many able-body Ukrainians as possible. You don't want to do that in cities. You want to do that in the open fields where your artillery can do the work while minimizing your own casualties. Ukrainians must have some hope of counter-offense or resistance in trench lines so they will be willing to fight you in the open fields, or they will just hide in cities. Sounds more like fishing. The heavier the fish, the slower to reel it in.

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## F-22Raptor

nang2 said:


> We will see about that in August.
> 
> And I don't think the slow advance is a problem. What Russians are doing now is to kill as many able-body Ukrainians as possible. You don't want to do that in cities. You want to do that in the open fields where your artillery can do the work while minimizing your own casualties. Ukrainians must have some hope of counter-offense or resistance in trench lines so they will be willing to fight you in the open fields, or they will just hide in cities. Sounds more like fishing. The heavier the fish, the slower to reel it in.




It’s definitely a huge problem. You want to destroy your enemy as fast as possible. Meanwhile Russia is losing thousands of soldiers and pieces of armor. They can’t move forward because they don’t have the capability to do it.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539704793513574402


MeFishToo said:


> If all this russian weaponry is so powerful, how come they dont use it and finish this war in Ukraine? Could it be its all just a figment of your imagination?



Sometimes predators toy with their prey.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539702086715285504
> Russia to completely exhaust themselves. They barely move a km today.



Sure is pretty boring to Americans it seems.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539680302498549764

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## kingQamaR

Soldier35 said:


> The Ukrainian army attacked the Russian Novoshakhtinsky oil refinery in the Rostov region with the help of a drone. As a result of the strike, a fire broke out at the Novoshakhtinsk oil refinery, as reported by the media, there were two drones, the fire started when one of them crashed into the structure of the plant. There is a fire at an oil refinery
> contained, no casualties.



That is a SMALL short range drone, probably launched from a few dozen miles away


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> That is a SMALL short range drone, probably launched from a few dozen miles away



It seems like a TB2 on a 1 way ticket.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539527572526080000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539527683243139072


----------



## kingQamaR

Tai Hai Chen said:


> It seems like a TB2 on a 1 way ticket.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539527572526080000
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539527683243139072



Drones are the most dangerous and worst invention ever


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> Drones are the most dangerous and worst invention ever



Drones are not that big a deal. Drones can be jammed. Sure, against a bunch of rag tag nobodies they are great, but not against a powerhouse.

I used to be think drones are the future of warfare. I changed my mind after doing more research.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539739123090587649


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539739123090587649



Putin's popularity sky rocketed in China. Chinese applaud Putin for protecting Donbas civilians from Kiev regime artillery. In fact, Chinese like to consider themselves as the most righteous folks in the world, always standing up for those who are bullied. Chinese consider themselves the Avengers.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539564980353355776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539707479176749058


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539702086715285504
> Russia to completely exhaust themselves. They barely move a km today.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539744253899059201

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539625911447871490


F-22Raptor said:


> This aligns with reports the Ukrainians believe Russian offensive capability will collapse in August.



After collecting these endless trophies? I don't think so. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539687604311863296

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539675074248187909

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539673925289971712

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539671315119890433

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539664231984795648

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539695594222002178

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539707479176749058

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539594055289450496

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539707479176749058



If I were rebels, I publicly hang these Kiev regime soldiers who terrorized the civilians of Donbas for the past 8 years.


----------



## kingQamaR

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Drones are not that big a deal. Drones can be jammed. Sure, against a bunch of rag tag nobodies they are great, but not against a powerhouse.
> 
> I used to be think drones are the future of warfare. I changed my mind after doing more research.



Considering we have actual footage of these drones destroying lots tanks and Russian SAM vehicles, yes, they are effective 

They are effective to .?.no ukrainian risk to life in employing them with high potential of damage via surveilance and sttack on targets


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539754503007744001

Reactions: Haha Haha:
2


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539625911447871490

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539742766447689729

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539740707497414656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539736266970890240

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539735445852004360

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539735188745461765

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539735093467652096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539734930288254977

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539621321356845057

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539655795394039808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539719658479431682

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539690799482359808


----------



## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 22​Jun 22, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF

*Karolina Hird, Mason Clark, George Barros, and Grace Mappes
June 22, 5:45 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Reinforced Russian air-defense systems in eastern Ukraine are increasingly limiting the effectiveness of Ukrainian drones, undermining a key Ukrainian capability in the war. *_Foreign Policy’s _Jack Detsch quoted several anonymous Ukrainian officials and military personnel that Ukrainian forces have largely halted the use of Turkish Bayraktar drones, which were used to great effect earlier in the war, due to improvements in Russian air-defense capabilities.[1] Ukrainian officials are reportedly increasingly concerned that US-provided Gray Eagle strike drones will also be shot down by reinforced Russian air defense over the Donbas.[2] Ukrainian forces have reportedly scaled back air operations to 20 to 30 sorties per day and are facing a deficit of available aircraft for active pilots. Russian forces are likely prioritizing deploying air defenses to eastern Ukraine to nullify Ukrainian operations and to protect the artillery systems Russian forces are reliant on to make advances. However, the Ukrainian air force and armed drones remain active elsewhere, inflicting several successful strikes on targets in Kherson Oblast in the last week.
*Members of the Russian military community continue to comment on the shortcomings of Russian force generation capabilities, which are having tangible impacts on the morale and discipline of Russians fighting in Ukraine. *Russian milblogger Yuri Kotyenok claimed that Russian troops lack the numbers and strength for success in combat in Ukraine.[3] Kotyenok accused Russian leadership of deploying new and under-trained recruits and called for replenishment of forces with well-trained recruits with ground infantry experience—though the Russian military is unlikely to be able to quickly generate such a force, as ISW has previously assessed. Despite growing calls for increased recruitment from nationalist figures, Russian leadership continues to carry out coercive partial mobilization efforts that are only producing limited numbers of replacements while negatively impacting the morale and discipline of forcibly mobilized personnel. Ukraine’s Security Service (SBU) claimed that Russian authorities in Luhansk are arranging gas leaks in apartment buildings to force men who are hiding from mobilization into the streets.[4] The Ukrainian Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) additionally reported that Russian soldiers in occupied Tokmak, Zaporizhia Oblast, are appealing to local Ukrainian doctors to issue them certificates alleging medical inability to continue military service.[5]
*Ukrainian forces conducted a drone strike (likely with a loitering munition, though this cannot be confirmed) on a Russian oil refinery in Novoshakhtinsk, Rostov Oblast, on June 22.*[6] Russian Telegram channel Voenyi Osvedomitel claimed that the strike, which targeted Russian infrastructure within 15 km of the Ukrainian border, originated from Donetsk Oblast.[7] Ukrainian forces have not targeted Russian infrastructure for several weeks, and this strike is likely an attempt to disrupt Russian logistics and fuel supply to Russian operations in eastern Ukraine.
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces continued to make gains to the south of Lysychansk and will likely reach the city in the coming days, although they are unlikely to quickly capture the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area.*
*Russian forces continued offensive operations towards Slovyansk and made minor advances.*
*Russian forces intensified efforts to interdict Ukrainian lines of communication along the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway in order to support Russian operations towards Lysychansk.*
*Russian forces focused on defensive operations along the Southern Axis and may have made marginal gains within Mykolaiv Oblast.*
*Russian authorities are continuing measures to facilitate the economic integration of occupied areas.*



*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued efforts to push north toward Lysychansk along the west bank of the Siverskyi Donets River and made measured gains south of Lysychansk on June 22. Head of Luhansk Oblast Administration Serhiy Haidai stated that Russian troops are consolidating their positions in Toshkivka, Ustynivka, Pidlisne, and Myrna Dolyna, and are attacking Bila Hora, directly on the southeastern outskirts of Lysychansk.[8] Russian Telegram channel Rybar claimed that Russian forces took control of Rai-Oleksandrivka and Loskutivka, both 10 km south of Lysychansk.[9] Haidai additionally stated that Russian forces are trying to fix in place Ukrainian units in Borivske and Voronove (both within 5 km southeast of Severodonetsk) and are firing on Ukrainian positions in Synetskyi and Pavlohrad (western suburbs of Severodonetsk along the eastern bank of the Siverskyi Donets River).[10] Haidiai’s claim suggests that Ukrainian forces still control the area to the southwest of Severodonetsk along the eastern bank of the Siverskyi Donets River and are therefore not entirely encircled in the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area. Russian forces continued street fights within Severodonetsk, presumably for control of the industrial zone.[11] Russian forces are moving to complete the encirclement of Ukrainian positions in Zolote and Hirske but likely have not captured these settlements as of June 22.[12]



Russian forces continued offensive operations towards Slovyansk from the southeast of Izyum and west of Lyman on June 22.[13] Spokesperson for the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense Oleksandr Motuzyanyk stated that unspecified elements of the Russian 1st Guards Tank Army, the 20th, 29th, and 35th Combined Arms Armies, 68th Army Corps, and unspecified Airborne Forces (VDV) are operating in the direction of Slovyansk.[14] Russian forces are reportedly fighting in the forests around Krasnopillya, about 20 km northwest of Slovyansk.[15] Mayor of Slovyansk Vadym Lyakh stated that Russian forces directly shelled a micro-district of Slovyansk, which is the first attack directly on Slovyansk since early June.[16] Russian forces additionally shelled Ukrainian positions west of Lyman around Pryshyb, Sydorove, and Majaky.[17]



Russian forces continued efforts to interdict Ukrainian lines of communication east of Bakhmut along the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway but did not make any confirmed advances on June 22.[18] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are re-grouping around Bakhmut to strengthen their offensive capabilities in the area.[19] Russian forces reportedly conducted an unsuccessful assault near the Vuhledar Power Plant in Svitlodarsk, which suggests that Russian forces may drive up the E40 highway to the northwest in order to gain access to the T3102 and support operations against the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk highway.[20] Russian forces additionally conducted an airstrike on Verkhnyokamyanka (see image in-line with text below), a settlement directly on the T1302 within 10 kilometers southwest of Lysychansk, in a likely effort to interdict Ukrainian movements towards Lysychansk.[21] Russian forces will likely continue to regroup and intensify operations in the area between Bakhmut and Lysychansk to advance toward Lysychansk from an additional axis, sever Ukrainian supply lines, and attempt to consolidate control of the entire Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area in the coming days.



[Source: NASA FIRMS Data from June 22 of fire activity in the Lysychansk area]​ 
*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
*

*
There were no significant changes in northern Kharkiv Oblast on June 22. Russian forces continued to focus on preventing Ukrainian advances toward the international border and shelled Kharkiv City and surrounding settlements.[22]
*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces continued to focus on defensive operations along the Southern Axis and may have secured marginal gains in Mykolaiv Oblast, north of Kherson City, on June 22.[23] Russian Telegram channel Rybar claimed that Russian forces took control of Novopetrivka, Burkhanivka, and Kalynivka, three settlements within 25 km of the Kherson-Mykolaiv Oblast border.[24] Spokesperson for the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense Oleksandr Motuzyanyk stated that unspecified elements of the Russian 8th and 49th Combined Arms Armies, 22nd Army Corps, and unspecified Airborne Forces (VDV) are operating between Mykolaiv and Kherson Oblasts to prevent further Ukrainian counterattacks toward Kherson City.[25] Deputy Head of Ukraine’s Presidential Office Kyrylo Tymoshenko stated that Ukrainian forces have recaptured Kiselivka and are now within 15 km of Kherson City, indicating that Russian forces are facing substantial pressure to defend their occupied frontiers against Ukrainian counterattacks.[26]



Ukrainian partisan activity continues to complicate Russian occupation efforts along the Southern Axis. Both the Ukrainian Resistance Center and Kremlin-run RIA Novosti reported that unidentified Ukrainian individuals, likely partisans, conducted an IED attack that injured the Russian-appointed head of Chornobaivka.[27]
Russian forces conducted missile and artillery strikes against various areas in Kherson, Mykolaiv, Dnipropetrovsk, and Zaporizhia Oblasts on June 22.[28] Motuzyanyk stated that Russian forces are conducting missile strikes on Odesa with Kh-35 Bal and K-300P Bastion-P anti-ship missiles, indicating Russian forces have likely exhausted their supply of appropriate missile systems and are resorting to firing on land targets with anti-ship missiles (which can still be effective but are less accurate than purpose-built land-attack systems).[29]
*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian occupation authorities continued economic integration efforts in occupied areas on June 22. Ukraine’s Zaporizhia Oblast Military Administration stated that Russian forces are preparing the Berdyansk Commerical Port for grain exports and are using trains to move grain from Melitopol to Russia.[30] Prime Minister of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) Vitaly Khotsenko additionally met with Governor of Russia’s Amur Oblast Vasily Orlov to secure patronage for infrastructure and agricultural development of the settlement of Amvrosiivka.[31]

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539375874038013957
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539372982661001217
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539366308751474689
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539366326002667523
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539366333111992327




Ukraine has successfully extracted all their soldiers from Zolote and Hirske and redeployed them at a higer elevation in Lyschansk.

Now the only wayout for the Russians is to withdraw to the east or perish.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## KediKesenFare3

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539537263855644674
LOL


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> Considering we have actual footage of these drones destroying lots tanks and Russian SAM vehicles, yes, they are effective
> 
> They are effective to .?.no ukrainian risk to life in employing them with high potential of damage via surveilance and sttack on targets



This is true in the early days of the war. But once Russian army deployed jamming equipment drones are no longer able to do anything. They all lost control and crashed into the ground.

This is why I advocate attack choppers. Modern attack choppers have ejection seats, radars, BVR missiles, and carry kamikaze drones which have long range.



Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Ukraine has successfully extracted all their soldiers from Zolote and Hirske and redeployed them at a higer elevation in Lyschansk.
> 
> Now the only wayout for the Russians is to withdraw to the east or perish.



Higher round is easy target for bombers which basically carpet bombs the whole area. Kiev regime soldiers at Lisichansk would all be killed by Russian bombers if they are bunched up in a small area.

This ain't the 1800s anymore. Modern warfare is dominated by air power.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539720175490138112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539722848620642309


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539720175490138112
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539722848620642309



Severodonetsk is cut off from the outside world. These are dead men walking. They are all going to be publicly hang when rebels get their hands on them.

As for American artillery, Mi-28NM blow them up left and right.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539745498990579713

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539736600325885952


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## The SC

Russian Su-25SM attack aircraft work on the objects of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537126287260766209


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> Russian Su-25SM attack aircraft work on the objects of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537126287260766209



The drawback of attack jets compared to attack choppers is the lack of radar for detecting and tracking ground targets. Attack choppers can also land anywhere as long as it's fairly flattish and so are better for close air support.


----------



## ckf

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539669381328048128
> 
> 
> What ethnicity is this guy? He could be Russian. Or he could be Ukrainian. Genetically, no difference between Russian and Ukrainian.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/c/RoadHomeMotorcycleVlogs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now that the bridge across the Amur river is operational, China can move hundreds of Type 99A2 tanks and PLZ-05 howitzers to Donbas very easily by rail. Trust me, the Kiev regime don't want to mess with the Chinese army which is the most powerful army in the world.


What kind of crazy talk is this? Ukraine Russian conflict is europe's problem. Moscow has nukes.


----------



## khansaheeb

*SKIP NAVIGATION*

*NATO chief says Sweden, Finland should join ‘as soon as possible’; Scholz aims to discuss ‘Marshall plan’ for Ukraine*
SHAREShare Article via FacebookShare Article via TwitterShare Article via LinkedInShare Article via Email


​https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/22/war...een-russia-and-nato-member-lithuania.htmlLIVE UPDATES
UPDATED WED, JUN 22 202211:41 PM EDT
SHAREShare Article via FacebookShare Article via TwitterShare Article via LinkedInShare Article via Email
NATO chief says Sweden, Finland should join ‘as soon as possible’; Scholz aims to discuss ‘Marshall plan’ for Ukraine​Amanda Macias
_This is CNBC’s live blog tracking developments on the war in Ukraine. See below for the latest updates. _
*[COLOR=rgba(7, 29, 57, 0)]WATCH NOW*​​
*VIDEO*[COLOR=rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)]06:19[/COLOR]
*Sweden and Finland want to join NATO. Here’s how that would work*

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has said the intense battles in eastern Ukraine represent “the toughest spot” in the conflict, with Russian forces “pressing strongly” in the region.
Several cities, towns and villages in the Luhansk region have been the focus of severe fighting for several weeks with Russian and Ukrainian forces engaged in street battles while Russian artillery fire destroys infrastructure and homes in the region.
Meanwhile, tensions are high between Russia and Lithuania after the latter, a NATO member, banned the rail transfer of all EU sanctioned goods (such as metals, coal, construction materials and high-technology products) coming from mainland Russia to Kaliningrad, a Russian exclave on the Baltic Sea.
Russia has warned of “serious” consequences against what it has called “hostile actions” of Lithuania, while NATO members have reiterated their support for the country.
Elsewhere, it’s a tense week for Ukraine as it awaits to see whether it will be granted the status of a candidate country for the European Union. It should know by the end of the week when an EU summit concludes.

​
1 HOUR AGO
Russia increased propaganda in Ukraine by 216%, Microsoft says​





Russia has increased the spread of propaganda through cyber influence operations by 216% in Ukraine and 82% in the United States since the war began, according to a Microsoft report.
_Silas Stein | Picture Alliance | Getty Images_
Russia has increased the spread of propaganda through cyber influence operations by 216% in Ukraine and 82% in the United States since its invasion of Ukraine began in late February, according to a Microsoft report.
The Russian military has also launched multiple waves of “destructive” cyberattacks against 48 Ukrainian agencies and enterprises, the report added.
Outside of Ukraine, Russian intelligence agencies have also stepped up espionage and network intrusion activities, targeting 128 organizations in 42 countries, Microsoft said.
Russia prioritized government targets, especially among NATO members, Microsoft president Brad Smith added.
_— Chelsea Ong_


6 HOURS AGO
U.S. State Department approves $22.7 million weapons sale to NATO​




Ukrainian soldiers move U.S.-made missiles on Feb. 13, 2022. The U.S. could announce new military aid for Ukraine as early as this week, a defense official and an administration official said.
_Sergei Supinsky | Afp | Getty Images_
The U.S. State Department notified Congress of a foreign military sale to the NATO alliance worth $22.7 million.
“The proposed sale will improve NATO’s capability to meet current and future ground threats with precision. NATO will use the enhanced capability as a deterrent to regional threats, and to increase interoperability within contingency operations,” the State Department wrote in its notification to Congress.
The potential sale to NATO’s support and procurement agency includes the following:

239 GBU-39/B small diameter bombs
204 FMU-152 fuzes
204 MK-82 500-pound general purpose bombs
50 BLU-109 2000-pound hard target penetrator bombs
The weapons sale also includes smoke signal cartridges, engineering and technical support, as well as other related elements of logistical and program support.
The State Department added that “there will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.”
_— Amanda Macias_

7 HOURS AGO
Biden blames gas price hike in U.S. on Putin’s war in Ukraine​




US President Joe Biden delivers remarks on efforts to lower high gas prices in the South Court Auditorium at Eisenhower Executive Office Building June 22, 2022 in Washington, DC.
_Jim Watson | AFP | Getty Images_
President Joe Biden placed blame for rising gas prices in the U.S. squarely on Russian President Vladimir Putin’s war in Ukraine.
“The simple truth is gas prices are up almost $2.00 a gallon because of Vladimir Putin’s ruthless attack on Ukraine and we wouldn’t let him get away with it. And we’re doing everything we can to reduce this pain at the pump now,” Biden said.
“If those experiences has shown us anything, it’s that we need to grow and harness more energy here at home,” he added.
Biden also blamed oil and gas companies for what he calls prioritizing profits at the expense of consumers, as he pushed Congress to pass a federal gas tax holiday.
“I call on the companies to pass this along — every penny of this 18 cents reduction — to the consumer,” Biden said, adding “There’s no time now for profiteering.”
_— Amanda Macias_

8 HOURS AGO
Germany’s Scholz says G-7 to discuss ‘Marshall plan’ for Ukraine​




German Chancellor Olaf Scholz gives a press statement about the war crimes discovered the day before in Bucha, Ukraine, at the Chancellery in Berlin, Germany April 3, 2022. 
_Hannibal Hanschke | Reuters_
German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said that he wants to discuss the outlines of a “Marshall plan for Ukraine” with the leaders of the Group of Seven countries at their upcoming summit in Germany.
Scholz hopes for a united front on long-term support for Ukraine when he hosts the annual G-7 summit in Bavaria next week. The group of the world’s leading economic powers is made up of the U.S., France, Germany, Italy, the U.K., Canada and Japan.
The chancellor told Germany’s parliament that “rebuilding Ukraine will be a task for generations.” Recalling his visit last week to Irpin, a Kyiv suburb that saw intense fighting, he said that “some things there remind not just me of the pictures of German cities after World War II.”
Like Europe then, “Ukraine today needs a Marshall plan for its rebuilding,” Scholz said — referring to the U.S.-sponsored plan that helped revive European economies after WWII.
_— Associated Press_

8 HOURS AGO
Pfizer to donate $5 million to humanitarian organizations supporting Ukraine​




Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla announced at the World Economic Forum in Davos that the drugmaker would make all of its patented medicines available at a not-for-profit price to 45 of the world’s poorest countries.
_Fabrice Coffrini | Afp | Getty Images_
Pharmaceutical and biotechnology giant Pfizer will send $5 million to eight global and local organizations supporting humanitarian relief and response efforts in Ukraine.
The groups are providing food security and support services, education for children, and other pressing needs for Ukrainians.
“We will continue to divert these profits to the Ukrainian people until peace is achieved. Until that time, we also stand firm in our decision to cease all our clinical trials in Russia and to halt all investments in local manufacturing,” Pfizer chairman and CEO Albert Bourla wrote in a statement.
In March, Pfizer announced that it would donate the equivalent of its profits from sales in Russia to causes that provide humanitarian support to the people of Ukraine.
_— Amanda Macias_

9 HOURS AGO
Stoltenberg says Sweden and Finland should join NATO alliance ‘as soon as possible’​




NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg speaks during a news conference following a NATO defence ministers meeting at the Alliance’s headquarters in Brussels, Belgium June 16, 2022. 
_Yves Herman | Reuters_
NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said the alliance will address Turkey’s concerns about Finland and Sweden’s applications to join NATO next week in Madrid.
“We are now working actively on the next steps in the accession process of both Finland and Sweden. And addressing Turkey’s security concerns, including in the fight against terrorism,” Stoltenberg said during a discussion hosted by Politico.
“My aim is to find a common way forward so that both countries can join our alliance as soon as possible,” he said, adding that the addition of Sweden and Finland will “make them safer, NATO stronger and the Euro-Atlantic area more secure.”
In May, both nations began the formal process of applying to the NATO alliance. President Joe Biden welcomed leaders from both countries to the White House and pledged to work with Congress — which has to ratify U.S. approval of NATO bids — and the other 29 members of the world’s most powerful military alliance to swiftly bring Sweden and Finland into the group. 
_— Amanda Macias_

10 HOURS AGO
Zelenskyy thanks Belgian leader for supporting Ukraine’s application to join EU​Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy thanked Belgian Prime Minister Alexander De Croo for supporting Ukraine’s application to join the European Union.
Last week, the European Commission, the executive arm of the EU, proposed that Ukraine become a membership candidate to join the bloc — the first step on a long road to EU membership.
Zelenskyy also thanked the Belgian leader for significant security assistance amid Russia’s full-scale war and invited him to visit Ukraine.
_— Amanda Macias_

11 HOURS AGO
National security adviser Sullivan and top U.S. military officer reaffirm support in call with Ukrainian counterparts​




Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley testifies before the Senate Appropriations Committee Subcommittee on Defense in Washington, U.S., May 3, 2022. 
_Win McNamee | Reuters_
National security adviser Jake Sullivan and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley spoke by phone with their Ukrainian counterparts.
Sullivan and Milley reaffirmed U.S. support during the call with Andriy Yermak, an advisor to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, and Gen. Valery Zaluzhny of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
“They discussed the unprovoked and ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine and international support for the Ukrainian armed forces,” according to a Pentagon readout of the call.
“Sullivan and Gen. Milley reaffirmed the steadfast support of the United States for Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity,” the readout added.
_— Amanda Macias_

12 HOURS AGO
Kremlin vows ‘retaliatory actions’ following Lithuanian blockade of Russian goods​




A disused border crossing point to Russia is seen on April 15, 2022 in Nida, Lithuania. Russia’s Kaliningrad exclave, on the shore of the Baltic Sea, is sandwiched between NATO members Lithuania and Poland and is the Baltic coasts most strategic transport and trade port.
_Paulius Peleckis | Getty Images News | Getty Images_
Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said Lithuania’s blockade of the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad will trigger retaliatory actions.
Last week, Lithuania announced it would block entry by rail of all EU-sanctioned goods coming from Russia into Kaliningrad.
Kaliningrad, sandwiched between Lithuania and Poland, depends on Lithuania and Belarus to conduct transit traffic between the enclave and mainland Russia.
“It was stated to both Lithuania and the EU through their diplomatic missions in Moscow about the inadmissibility of such actions and the need to change the steps taken and return the situation to a legitimate course,” Zakharova told reporters, according to an NBC News translation.
“If this is not done, then, of course, and this was emphasized at all levels in Moscow, retaliatory actions will be inevitable,” she added, without providing further details.
_— Amanda Macias_

13 HOURS AGO
UN says at least 4,634 killed in Ukraine since start of war​
Mourners pay their respects next to the coffin of killed Ukrainian serviceman Roman Ratushny during a farewell ceremony in Kyiv on June 18, 2022, amid the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
_Genya Savilov | AFP | Getty Images_
The United Nations has confirmed 4,634 civilian deaths and 5,769 injuries in Ukraine since Russia invaded its ex-Soviet neighbor on Feb. 24.
The Office of the U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights said the death toll in Ukraine is likely higher, because the armed conflict can delay fatality reports.
The international organization said most of the civilian casualties recorded were caused by the use of explosive weapons with a wide impact area, including shelling from heavy artillery and multiple launch rocket systems, as well as missiles and airstrikes.
_— Amanda Macias_

15 HOURS AGO
Russia may cut off gas to Europe completely, IEA chief says​
A worker adjusts a pipeline valve at the Gazprom PJSC Slavyanskaya compressor station, the starting point of the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline, in Ust-Luga, Russia, on Thursday, Jan. 28, 2021.
_Bloomberg | Bloomberg | Getty Images_
Russia may cut off gas to Europe entirely as it seeks to bolster its political leverage amid the Ukraine crisis, the head of the International Energy Agency said in comments reported by Reuters, urging Europe to prepare for such an eventuality now.
“I wouldn’t rule out Russia continuing to find different issues here and there and continuing to find excuses to further reduce gas deliveries to Europe and maybe even cut it off completely,” IEA Executive Director Fatih Birol said in a statement sent to the news agency.
“This is the reason Europe needs contingency plans,” Birol added, saying a recent reduction in flows may be an attempt to gain political leverage ahead of higher-demand winter months.
The IEA did not see a full cut-off as the most likely scenario, however.
The energy sector is a significant bone of contention for the EU, which has sanctioned Russian oil and coal in the wake of its invasion of Ukraine and has vowed to phase out Russian energy imports. Russia has been repeatedly accused of weaponizing energy supplies by reducing flows to Europe, an accusation it denies.

17 HOURS AGO
Russian forces are approaching Lysychansk and gaining ground, official says​
Before the war: Here’s what the Azot Chemical Plant looked like in 2021 in Severodonetsk, Ukraine. Hundreds of civilians are believed to be shelting here as the battle over Severodonetsk intensifies.
_Gaelle Girbes | Getty Images News | Getty Images_
The head of the Luhansk region, where the fiercest fighting has been seen in Ukraine in recent weeks, has said Russian forces are gaining ground in the area.
“The Russians are approaching Lysychansk, gaining a foothold in nearby settlements, the city is shelled from the air,” Serhiy Haidai said on his Telegram account on Wednesday.
He said street fights were continuing in the neighboring city of Severodonetsk with Russian troops firing on the nearby villages of Synetsky and Pavlograd, and on the “Azot” chemicals plant where some Ukrainian fighters are holding out.
— _Holly Ellyatt_

18 HOURS AGO
Preventing a nuclear conflict is currently Russia’s priority, official says​Russia’s Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov has said the prevention of a nuclear conflict is currently Russia’s priority. 
“Taking into account the risks of further escalation of the Ukrainian crisis and the general unpredictability of the development of the international situation, the absolute priority of Russian diplomacy is to prevent direct conflict between nuclear powers, to maintain dialogue on deconflicting,” Ryabkov said, speaking during a meeting at the International Summer School of the PIR Center on global security issues near Moscow.
NATO has repeatedly said it does not want, and does not plan, to deploy its ground forces in Ukraine for fear that it could lead to a direct confrontation with nuclear power Russia.
_— Holly Ellyatt_

20 HOURS AGO
Russia likely preparing to deploy reserve units to the Donbas, UK says​
A mortar explodes next to the road leading to the city of Lysychansk in the eastern Ukranian region of Donbas, on May 23, 2022, amid Russian invasion of Ukraine.
_Aris Messinis | AFP | Getty Images_
Russia “is highly likely preparing to attempt to deploy a large number of reserve units to the Donbas,” according to the latest intelligence update from the British Ministry of Defence.
In its latest update on Twitter, the U.K. government ministry noted that heavy shelling continues as Russia pushes to envelop the Seeverodonetsk area via Izium in the north and Popasna in the south.
The area has been the scene of fierce fighting for weeks and Russia could look to definitively swing the balance in its favor with reserve units.

20 HOURS AGO
Kaliningrad becomes a new cold front between Russia and NATO​
A sign reading ‘Kaliningrad’ stands atop the main city’s south railway station. Kaliningrad is a small Russian exclave located on the Baltic Sea and sandwiched between Lithuania and Poland. It has become the center of a spat between Russia and NATO-member Lithuania.
_Harry Engels | Getty Images Sport | Getty Images_
A new front in tensions between Russia and NATO has opened up after one of the Western military alliance’s members, Lithuania, banned the transit of some goods coming from Russia to its exclave Kaliningrad on the Baltic Sea.
Russia has vowed to retaliate over what it described as the “hostile actions” of Lithuania, warning of “serious” consequences, while NATO members have reiterated their support for the country.
It’s uncertain how Moscow will react to Lithuania’s move as it is unlikely to want a direct confrontation with NATO.
CNBC has a brief guide to what’s going on, and why it matters as the Russia-Ukraine conflict rumbles on in the background. Read more here.
_— Holly Ellyatt_

22 HOURS AGO
Luhansk ‘the toughest spot’ as Russian forces are ‘pressing strongly,’ Zelenskyy says​
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy with a Ukrainian serviceman outside the southern city of Mykolaiv, Ukraine, on June 18, 2022.
_Ukrainian Presidential Press Service | Reuters_
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has said that the military situation in the eastern region of Luhansk is tough as Russian maintained intense pressure on Ukrainian troops trying to defend the last towns and villages in the Luhansk and Donetsk regions.
“The situation on the frontline hasn’t significantly changed. Thanks to tactical manoeuvres, the Ukrainian army is strengthening its defence in the Luhansk region. That is really the toughest spot. The occupiers are pressing strongly, and also in the Donetsk direction in the Kharkiv region,” Zelenskyy said in his nightly address Tuesday.
The president added that Ukrainian fighters were also defending the regions around Mykolaiv, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson.
Russian forces have captured several settlements near the key cities of Severodonetsk and Lysychansk in the Luhansk region, the regional governor and Ukraine’s general staff said on Tuesday.

A Ukrainian serviceman sits next to a destroyed Russian tank at an abandoned Russian position near the village of Bilogorivka not far from Lysychansk, Luhansk, on June 17, 2022.
_Anatolii Stepanov | Afp | Getty Images_
The cities have been the focus of fierce fighting and intense shelling for weeks. The governor of Luhansk, Serhiy Haidai, has said attempts to evacuate the last civilians were under way.
_— Holly Ellyatt_

TUE, JUN 21 20225:30 PM EDT
Macron and NATO’s Stoltenberg speak ahead of leaders summit next week​
France’s President Emmanuel Macron attends a news conference with Germany’s Chancellor Olaf Scholz (not pictured) at the Chancellery in Berlin, Germany May 9, 2022.
_Lisi Niesner | Reuters_
French President Emmanuel Macron spoke with the NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg ahead of the NATO summit in Madrid next week.
Macron told Stoltenberg that he wanted to speak to Turkish President Recep Erdogan regarding Ankara’s position on Finland and Sweden joining the NATO alliance, according to an Elysee Palace readout.
“Macron reiterated his support for Finland and Sweden in their sovereign choice to join the alliance and underlined that they are close partners with robust defense capabilities, which will thus contribute to strengthening the security and stability of the Euro-Atlantic area,” according to the readout.
The two also discussed Russia’s continued aggression in Ukraine and Macron’s trip last week alongside other EU leaders to Ukraine.
_— Amanda Macias_

TUE, JUN 21 20225:08 PM EDT
U.S. reiterates commitment to NATO alliance following Kremlin threats lobbed at Lithuania​
U.S. State Department Spokesperson Ned Price speaks during a news conference at the State Department in Washington, U.S., February 23, 2022.
_Tom Brenner | Reuters_
The State Department reiterated U.S. commitment to NATO on the heels of Kremlin threats directed at Lithuania.
Last week, Lithuania which shares a border with Russia, announced it would block entry by rail of all EU-sanctioned goods coming from mainland Russia.
Moscow warned it would respond to Lithuania’s blocking of certain goods and called the measure “openly hostile.”
“Lithuania is a member of the NATO alliance and we stand by the commitments that we have made to the NATO alliance and that includes of course, a commitment to Article Five that is the bedrock of the NATO alliance,” State Department spokesman Ned Price said during a daily press briefing.
“Lithuania has been a stalwart partner, we stand by NATO, we stand by our NATO allies and we stand by Lithuania,” Price added.
_— Amanda Macias_

TUE, JUN 21 202211:24 AM EDT
German heavy weaponry ‘finally’ arrives in Ukraine​
MUNSTER, GERMANY - MAY 10: Bundeswehr Panzerhaubitze 2000 / howitzer 2000 during exercise - Wettiner Heide - on May 10, Munster, Germany. I
_Thomas Imo | Photothek | Getty Images_
Long-range weaponry from Germany has arrived in Ukraine for the first time, Ukraine’s defense ministry announced, the latest shipment of heavy weaponry that Kyiv has been urgently asking for.
“Panzerhaubitze 2000 are finally part of 155 mm howitzer arsenal of the Ukrainian artillery,” Ukrainian Defence Minister Oleksiy Reznikov tweeted, adding, “I highly appreciate the efforts of my colleague, #DefMin Christine Lambrecht,” referring to Germany’s defense minister. Reznikov also thanked the Netherlands, which sent the German weapons.
The Panzerhaubitze 2000 is a 155-millimeter self-propelled howitzer developed by German manufacturers Krauss-Maffei Wegmann and Rheinmetall, and is considered one of the most powerful artillery systems used by western militaries today.
Germany has been criticized for being slow to aid Ukraine with offensive weapons. Russia’s war in Ukraine marks the first time the German government has sent lethal weapons to a conflict zone since the Second World War.
_— Natasha Turak_

TUE, JUN 21 202210:59 AM EDT
Moscow vows response to Lithuania’s blocking of sanctioned goods to Russia’s Kaliningrad​Russia warned it would respond to Lithuania’s blocking of certain goods from its exclave of Kaliningrad, calling the measure “openly hostile.”
Last week, Lithuania, which shares a border with Russia and in which the tiny Russian exclave of Kaliningrad is located, announced it would block entry by rail of all EU sanctioned goods coming from mainland Russia. That includes metals, coal, construction materials and high-technology products.
“If in the near future cargo transit between the Kaliningrad region and the rest of the territory of the Russian Federation through Lithuania is not restored in full, then Russia reserves the right to take actions to protect its national interests,” Russia’s foreign ministry said in a statement.
Lithuania has said that its decision was taken after consultation with the European Commission, and that it is carrying out EU sanctions.
_— Natasha Turak_

TUE, JUN 21 20229:21 AM EDT
Russia pressures Europe by slashing its natural gas supply​
The EU’s partial embargo covers Russian oil brought into the bloc by sea, with an exemption carved out for imports delivered by pipeline following opposition from Hungary.
_Attila Kisbenedek | Afp | Getty Images_
Russia has slashed the flow of natural gas to Europe in a move European leaders called a clear attempt to strike back at Western countries for their support of Ukraine.
On Friday, Russia reduced natural gas deliveries by half to Italy and Slovakia and cut off France entirely, marking a third consecutive day of gas reductions in a growing economic confrontation between Moscow and the West. Moscow had previously cut off all natural gas flows to Poland, Bulgaria, Finland, the Netherlands and Denmark.
After Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, the European Union joined the U.S. in imposing sweeping financial sanctions on Russia. But European governments have been bracing for economic retaliation from the Kremlin and officials portrayed this week’s squeeze on natural gas supplies as an effort by Moscow to exert political pressure and push energy prices up.
Russia has blamed the cut on maintenance and repair issues, saying equipment they needed was not able to reach them due to Western sanctions.
Read more on the potential energy crisis here.
_— NBC News and Associated Press_

24 HOURS AGO
Read CNBC’s previous live coverage here:​Americans captured in Ukraine could face the death penalty; First German long-range weapons arrive in Ukraine

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*A NATO war with Russia is looming closer and closer as now Lithuania provokes Russia by banning transit of goods to Kaliningrad. *

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539829314513997826


khansaheeb said:


> A NATO war with Russia is looming closer and closer as now Lithuania provokes Russia by banning transit of goods to Kaliningrad.



Lithuania's days are numbered. The Amur river bridge is operational. 1,000 Chinese Type 99A2 tanks and PLZ-05 howitzers can reach Lithuania by rail through Russia and Belarus. The small nation of 2.7 million people can be easily annexed by China.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
2


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539742766447689729


----------



## Hack-Hook

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Drones are not that big a deal. Drones can be jammed. Sure, against a bunch of rag tag nobodies they are great, but not against a powerhouse.
> 
> I used to be think drones are the future of warfare. I changed my mind after doing more research.


the problem is not drones , its AI controlled drones. jamming techniques won't work on such drones


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hack-Hook said:


> the problem is not drones , its AI controlled drones. jamming techniques won't work on such drones



No such thing as AI. I work in AI myself. True AI requires quantum computer. Human brain is quantum computer. Terminators use quantum computer.


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## Hack-Hook

Tai Hai Chen said:


> No such thing as AI. I work in AI myself. True AI requires quantum computer. Human brain is quantum computer. Terminators use quantum computer.


well let say Virtual intelligence not AI.
honestly the drones don't need to have the IQ of 120. it needs to be aware of its surrounding and decide on target and how to attack it and that don't need Quantum computing

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539739424757616641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539738277032300544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539737311428202497

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539736581891842050

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539736266970890240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539736012926189572

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539733291351375873

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539734228182519808

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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Good. Send all of Germany's Tiger to Donbas, Mi-28NM track them down with radar and shoot them up with BVR missiles. Germany has been an accomplice in the murder of thousands of Donbas children. It's about time Germany pays the price for committing war crimes and crimes against humanity.


Then the new Panther with 130mm gun
Also, the tank has drones, loitering ammunition.
Good luck.




Source: _Rheinmetall Defense_

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Then the new Panther with 130mm gun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Artist's impression of the new KF51 Panther MBT. Source: _Rheinmetall Defense_



Panther tank has huge RCS. Mi-28NM mast mounted radar can detect it and track it from 50 km away and smash it using LMUR (Light Multi-role Unified Missile) / Hermes BVR air to air / air to ground missile from 30 km away.









Hermes (missile) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org







https://tass.com/defense/1194307

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539645099738546176

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539859699453116417

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539860279907024897

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539681878772531202

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539679246162993155

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539867609381978113

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539868013645778945

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## gambit

jhungary said:


> Again, you do know there is a war going on, right?
> 
> I am not saying anything else, but you do know that is a ground reality.
> 
> This is not some football game you play, this is a war, you kind of expected that when the Russia go across the border and come kill you in your land. Or do you think Ukraine will care "If Russian mobilise all their people blah blah blah" because you can say "I will mobilise everyone" just about everything, as I said, if you really think this is logical. Ukraine would have surrendered a long time ago lol.
> 
> *Hence, are you for real*??


I was going to say he is a 12 yrs old, but from examining his posts, I say 16 yrs old.

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## jhungary

gambit said:


> I was going to say he is a 12 yrs old, but from examining his posts, I say 16 yrs old.


Man, I don't know, I have never seen someone being this naive. 

As I said, he is almost 'Innocents..."


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539926195290214411

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## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539926195290214411


This is like what had happened before Paris being liberated in WW2.....

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## Soldier35

A well-known French lawyer and politician, Régis de Castelnau, said that Russia captured two undamaged French-made Caeser self-propelled guns in Ukraine. According to him, the Caeser self-propelled guns delivered earlier by France to Ukraine have already been sent for study by Uralvagonzavod. According to him, the study of ACS is carried out by reverse engineering. Earlier, France handed over to Ukraine 12 Caeser self-propelled guns and a certain amount of ammunition for them.






The Russian Ministry of Defense showed the work of the composition of the special Volga train in Ukraine, created by specialists from the railway troops of the Western Military District to conduct engineering reconnaissance and restore tracks. The train has an armored coating, weapons, equipment and firepower are placed on the platforms.

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## jhungary

EU leaders to grant Ukraine candidate status in blow to Putin

​EU leaders to grant Ukraine candidate status in blow to Putin​
uropean leaders are poised to grant Ukraine candidate status, in a historic decision that opens the door to EU membership for the war-torn country and deals a blow to Vladimir Putin.



© Provided by The GuardianPhotograph: Natacha Pisarenko/AP
EU leaders meeting in Brussels are expected to approve Ukraine’s candidate status later on Thursday, nearly four months after President Volodymyr Zelenskiy launched his country’s bid to join the bloc in the early days of the Russian invasion.
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The move from applicant to candidate usually takes years, but the EU has dramatically accelerated the process, amid outrage over the brutality of the unprovoked Russian attack, and to show solidarity with Ukraine’s defenders.
“Ukraine is going through hell for a simple reason: its desire to join the EU,” tweeted the European Commission president, Ursula von der Leyen, on the eve of the summit. The commission last week called on EU leaders to grant Ukraine’s candidate status. “Our opinion acknowledges the immense progress that [Ukrainian] democracy has achieved since the Maidan protests of 2014,” Von der Leyen said.
Welcoming the expected positive decision, Zelenskiy said: “This is like going into the light from the darkness.”
Ukraine’s foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, said candidate status would “draw a line under decades of ambiguity and set it in stone: Ukraine is Europe, not part of the ‘Russian world’”.



Related video: Ukraine membership bid: EU leaders hold key summit on Kyiv's path to accession (France 24)


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Ukraine membership bid: EU leaders hold key summit on Kyiv's path to accession
Speaking of the candidate status decision, Ukraine’s ambassador to the EU, Vsevolod Chentsov, said earlier this week that the EU had moved at “lightning speed” by its standards.
“We need this clarity [on EU membership] to support the Ukrainian army, Ukrainian society, morally, psychologically, and to get the clear feeling and understanding of the direction of movement for Ukraine,” he said.
Ukraine has been seeking EU membership since the 2004 “orange revolution” and more emphatically since the 2013-14 Maidan protests, when the pro-Kremlin president, Viktor Yanukovych, was ousted after he refused to sign an association agreement with the bloc. But before the war, EU membership was off the table for the country of 41 million people that is plagued by corruption.
When Zelenskiy announced Ukraine’s EU membership bid, many countries in western Europe were sceptical. Senior officials counted 10 member states that opposed candidate status for Ukraine, but the mood has shifted, as leaders feared being on the wrong side of history.
EU capitals also know membership talks will take many years. The process can go into reverse, if a future Kyiv government fails to implement reforms on the rule of law and aligning its economy to EU standards.
A draft copy of the summit conclusions seen by the Guardian states that the progress of a candidate country will depend on “its own merit” but also “taking into consideration the EU’s capacity to absorb new members”.
Germany’s chancellor, Olaf Scholz, has said that the EU must “reform its internal procedures” to prepare for new members, calling for greater use of qualified majority votes in areas such as foreign policy, to end one country blocking a decision.
France is one of several countries that opposes giving up its veto over foreign policy decisions.
EU leaders are also expected to grant EU candidate status to Moldova, the former Soviet country of 3.5 million that has experienced a surge in tensions since the Russian invasion of its neighbour. Georgia is expected to be granted a “European perspective”, a rung on the ladder below candidate status. Along with Moldova, Georgia filed an application to join the EU soon after the Russian invasion, but Brussels is concerned about Tbilisi’s backsliding on the rule of law and press freedom.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539936425629687810

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## Viet

Germany no longer believes to negotiation.
The decision who wins, Ukraine or Russia, will be made on battlefield.
Previously Zelinskki rules out negotiation as long as Russia troops occupy Ukraine territories.









Regierungserklärung - Scholz hält Friedensverhandlungen zwischen Russland und der Ukraine für unrealistisch


Bundeskanzler Scholz hält Verhandlungen über einen Frieden zwischen Russland und der Ukraine bis auf Weiteres für unrealistisch. Scholz sagte in einer Regierungserklärung im Bundestag, der russische Präsident Putin glaube immer noch an die Möglichkeit eines Diktatfriedens.




www.deutschlandfunk.de


----------



## Vergennes

Soldier35 said:


> A well-known French lawyer and politician, Régis de Castelnau, said that Russia captured two undamaged French-made Caeser self-propelled guns in Ukraine. According to him, the Caeser self-propelled guns delivered earlier by France to Ukraine have already been sent for study by Uralvagonzavod. According to him, the study of ACS is carried out by reverse engineering. Earlier, France handed over to Ukraine 12 Caeser self-propelled guns and a certain amount of ammunition for them.



Source : Trust me bro. BTW no one knows him.


----------



## Viet

Comprehensive list of weapons and other things provided by Germany to Ukraine



3,000 Panzerfaust 3 cartridges plus 900 grips

14,900 anti-tank mines

500 STINGER anti-aircraft missiles

2,700 STRELA flying fists

7 Panzerhaubitzen 2000 including adaptation, training and spare parts (joint project with the Netherlands)

16 million rounds of handgun ammunition

50 bunker fists

100 MG 3 machine guns with 500 spare barrels and bolts

100,000 hand grenades

5,300 explosive charges

100,000 meters of detonating cord and 100,000 detonators

350,000 detonators

23,000 combat helmets

15 pallets of clothing

178 motor vehicles (trucks, minibuses, SUVs)

100 tents

12 power generators

6 pallets of material for explosive ordnance disposal

125 binoculars

1,200 hospital beds

18 pallets of medical supplies, 60 surgical lights

protective clothing, surgical masks

10,000 sleeping bags

600 shooting glasses

1 radio frequency system

3,000 field telephones with 5,000 reels of field cord and carrying equipment

1 field hospital (joint project with Estonia)

353 night vision goggles

4 electronic anti-drone devices

165 binoculars

Medical supplies (including rucksacks, first-aid kits)

38 laser range finder

Fuel diesel and petrol (current delivery)

10 tons of AdBlue

500 pieces of wound dressings to stop bleeding

500 pieces of food rations

Food: 2,025 pallets (68 truckloads) with 360,000 rations one-pack (EPa)

MiG-29 spare parts

30 armored vehicles

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## MeFishToo

Vergennes said:


> Source : Trust me bro. BTW no one knows him.


Previously if they captured an NLAW, they would show it off as if theyd won the war. But two captured CAECAR is not even worth a picture.. I think its safe to say this is just another BS story.


----------



## Viet

Militärische Unterstützungsleistungen für die Ukraine | Bundesregierung


Diese Aufstellung gibt eine Übersicht über deutsche militärische Unterstützungsleistungen für die Ukraine.




www.bundesregierung.de


----------



## jhungary

Vergennes said:


> Source : Trust me bro. BTW no one knows him.


He claim his source is FSB.

Sure, it's like Zelenskyy is actually a lapdog of Putin, my source? It's the CIA

Since when FSB is like a sieve and leak information like this every which way. lol??


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## Viet

In next packages Germany will send following items to Ukraine. Especially IRIS-T SLM is most important. The system will provide aerial defense over Kiew.


10,000 rounds of artillery ammunition

53,000 rounds of anti-aircraft ammunition

5.8 million rounds of handgun ammunition

5,000 combat helmets

8 mobile ground radars and thermal imaging devices*

8 recon drones*

10 protected vehicles*

7 jammers*

8 electronic anti-drone devices*

4 mobile, remote-controlled and protected demining devices*

65 refrigerators for medical supplies

1 vehicle decontamination point

100 auto injectors

14 anti-drone sensors and jammers*

10 anti-drone cannons*

32 Recon Drones*

54 M113 armored troop carriers with armament (systems from Denmark, conversion financed by Germany)

30 GEPARD anti-aircraft tanks including around 6,000 rounds of anti-aircraft ammunition*

Air Defense System IRIS-T SLM*

Artillery detection radar COBRA*
80 pickup*

3 MARS multiple rocket launchers with ammunition

100,000 first aid kits*

22 trucks

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539859624450572288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539908411411906560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539939352230371329

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539964373032062979


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539931757621006336

HIMARS are now officially in Ukraine


----------



## ZeGerman

Soldier35 said:


> A well-known French lawyer and politician, Régis de Castelnau, said that Russia captured two undamaged French-made Caeser self-propelled guns in Ukraine. According to him, the Caeser self-propelled guns delivered earlier by France to Ukraine have already been sent for study by Uralvagonzavod. According to him, the study of ACS is carried out by reverse engineering. Earlier, France handed over to Ukraine 12 Caeser self-propelled guns and a certain amount of ammunition for them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Russian Ministry of Defense showed the work of the composition of the special Volga train in Ukraine, created by specialists from the railway troops of the Western Military District to conduct engineering reconnaissance and restore tracks. The train has an armored coating, weapons, equipment and firepower are placed on the platforms.


Link to original post of regis de castelnau?
Cannot seem to find it.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Comprehensive list of weapons and other things provided by Germany to Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 3,000 Panzerfaust 3 cartridges plus 900 grips
> 
> 14,900 anti-tank mines
> 
> 500 STINGER anti-aircraft missiles
> 
> 2,700 STRELA flying fists
> 
> 7 Panzerhaubitzen 2000 including adaptation, training and spare parts (joint project with the Netherlands)
> 
> 16 million rounds of handgun ammunition
> 
> 50 bunker fists
> 
> 100 MG 3 machine guns with 500 spare barrels and bolts
> 
> 100,000 hand grenades
> 
> 5,300 explosive charges
> 
> 100,000 meters of detonating cord and 100,000 detonators
> 
> 350,000 detonators
> 
> 23,000 combat helmets
> 
> 15 pallets of clothing
> 
> 178 motor vehicles (trucks, minibuses, SUVs)
> 
> 100 tents
> 
> 12 power generators
> 
> 6 pallets of material for explosive ordnance disposal
> 
> 125 binoculars
> 
> 1,200 hospital beds
> 
> 18 pallets of medical supplies, 60 surgical lights
> 
> protective clothing, surgical masks
> 
> 10,000 sleeping bags
> 
> 600 shooting glasses
> 
> 1 radio frequency system
> 
> 3,000 field telephones with 5,000 reels of field cord and carrying equipment
> 
> 1 field hospital (joint project with Estonia)
> 
> 353 night vision goggles
> 
> 4 electronic anti-drone devices
> 
> 165 binoculars
> 
> Medical supplies (including rucksacks, first-aid kits)
> 
> 38 laser range finder
> 
> Fuel diesel and petrol (current delivery)
> 
> 10 tons of AdBlue
> 
> 500 pieces of wound dressings to stop bleeding
> 
> 500 pieces of food rations
> 
> Food: 2,025 pallets (68 truckloads) with 360,000 rations one-pack (EPa)
> 
> MiG-29 spare parts
> 
> 30 armored vehicles



Too little. Needs to send every tank, artillery, helicopter, jet to Kiev regime if they want to keep bombing Donbas civilians.

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## ZeGerman

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539931757621006336
> 
> HIMARS are now officially in Ukraine


Good. Interesting times ahead for the Orcs. 

Keep the supplies coming! More artillery, more himars, more training. Its all still in small numbers now…


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## F-22Raptor

ZeGerman said:


> Good. Interesting times ahead for the Orcs.
> 
> Keep the supplies coming! More artillery, more himars, more training. Its all still in small numbers now…



Another US weapons package is expected today with another four HIMARS. Its not as small as you think. HIMARS can fire 5 volleys in an hour. For 8 HIMARS that's over 200 rockets per hour. I don't expect them to fire at that rate, but its more a question on the amount of ammo then number of HIMARS.


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## Viet

Vergennes said:


> Source : Trust me bro. BTW no one knows him.


When google I found he said this:

“Moi, communiste patriote, je voterai Marine Le Pen”.

That explains.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539972650914631681

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> Another US weapons package is expected today with another four HIMARS. Its not as small as you think. HIMARS can fire 5 volleys in an hour. For 8 HIMARS that's over 200 rockets per hour. I don't expect them to fire at that rate, but its more a question on the amount of ammo then number of HIMARS.


Think the average reloading time for a ready to use pod is 9 minutes. Which mean if you have enough pod, you can fire 6 to 7 salvo per hour

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

America should every single artillery to Donbas. It's not like America needs them to fight China. Send them all. Send them all!

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## Get Ya Wig Split



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## zartosht

One would have thought the Germans learned their lesson about messing with Russia after ww2?

*400 full stregnth wehrmacht divisions* that absolutely slaughtered any western army on its path. the strongest army ever assmebled in human history in that point.

backed up with* 30 ss divisions, finland, romania, and various alli*es. Launched an all out invasion on Russia(largest and most powerful in human history, numbering several millions) . Which had at the time purged 1/3 of its officer corps, and was in total dissaray and considered weak and pathetic.....

The Russians absolutely slaughtered this army, burned the entire country to the ground, placed their flag on the parliament building, and raped the entire female popuation of germany, cut them down to half in size, and forever removed them as a geopolitical power.

now this feminist cuckold scholz thinks hes going to take on todays Russia with his tranny army? Russians armed to the teeth with enough nukes to wipe out civilizaiton many times over? 

Germany will eat nukes 50 times over before they get a chance to throw another firecracker towards Russsia. The Russians have 0 tolerance for any new german aggresiion.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Get Ya Wig Split said:


>



@waz 

@Get Ya Wig Split keep posting these posts that are not relevant to this thread

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## jhungary

zartosht said:


> One would have thought the Germans learned their lesson about messing with Russia after ww2?
> 
> *400 full stregnth wehrmacht divisions* that absolutely slaughtered any western army on its path. the strongest army ever assmebled in human history in that point.
> 
> backed up with* 30 ss divisions, finland, romania, and various alli*es. Launched an all out invasion on Russia(largest and most powerful in human history, numbering several millions) . Which had at the time purged 1/3 of its officer corps, and was in total dissaray and considered weak and pathetic.....
> 
> The Russians absolutely slaughtered this army, burned the entire country to the ground, placed their flag on the parliament building, and raped the entire female popuation of germany, cut them down to half in size, and forever removed them as a geopolitical power.
> 
> now this feminist cuckold scholz thinks hes going to take on todays Russia with his tranny army? Russians armed to the teeth with enough nukes to wipe out civilizaiton many times over?
> 
> Germany will eat nukes 50 times over before they get a chance to throw another firecracker towards Russsia. The Russians have 0 tolerance for any new german aggresiion.


That's USSR, not Russia. The USSR is a lot more than just Russia.........

In fact, IIRC, Ukraine lost more people in that war by capita than Russia. Well, they both suffer but Ukraine lost more.


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## Get Ya Wig Split

Tai Hai Chen said:


> @waz
> 
> @Get Ya Wig Split keep posting these posts that are not relevant to this thread







WE ARE NATO!

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> That's USSR, not Russia. The USSR is a lot more than just Russia.........
> 
> In fact, IIRC, Ukraine lost more people in that war by capita than Russia. Well, they both suffer but Ukraine lost more.



In WW2 Ukrainians fought on the side of Hitler and slaughtered millions of Russians and Russians in turn slaughtered millions of Ukrainians.

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## zartosht

jhungary said:


> That's USSR, not Russia. The USSR is a lot more than just Russia.........
> 
> In fact, IIRC, Ukraine lost more people in that war by capita than Russia. Well, they both suffer but Ukraine lost more.



Did sweden when it was the greatest and had an “invincible” undefeated army, withone of their best military kings get slaughtered because of ussr?

Did napoleans grande armee get slaughtered becausr of the ussr?


Todays Russia is far more powerful when it comes to brute strenghth

The Russians can just as eaasily use terrain and unlimited strategic depth to repeat the exact same formula. While being armed in a way to absolutely anahilate the invading armys country into a glass parking lot

Sweden
France
Germany
And now the US

4 of the most powerful empires on earth during their time made the mistake of messing with Russia

Starting to see a pattern?


But your more then welcome to keep your delusions as much as you want. Hitler believed victory was a counter attack away right untill he could hear Russian fire outside his bunker. Delusions cant save you. They might keep morale up for a bit at most

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539989902212956161

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## jhungary

zartosht said:


> Did sweden when it was the greatest and had an “invincible” undefeated army, withone of their best military kings get slaughtered because of ussr?
> 
> Did napoleans grande armee get slaughtered becausr of the ussr?
> 
> 
> Todays Russia is far more powerful when it comes to brute strenghth
> 
> The Russians can just as eaasily use terrain and unlimited strategic depth to repeat the exact same formula. While being armed in a way to absolutely anahilate the invading armys country into a glass parking lot
> 
> Sweden
> France
> Germany
> And now the US
> 
> 4 of the most powerful empires on earth during their time made the mistake of messing with Russia
> 
> Starting to see a pattern?
> 
> 
> But your more then welcome to keep your delusions as much as you want. Hitler believed victory was a counter attack away right untill he could hear Russian fire outside his bunker. Delusions cant save you. They might keep morale up for a bit at most


First of all, you do know Russian Empire (the Russia you mentioned on defeating Sweden and Napoleon) are a lot bigger than probably even USSR, right?






I mean, I have no intention to answer any of your post, because well, I don't really indulge in fantasy. I am just saying all that you said is not the same Russia now, Both USSR and Russian Empire is not the same as Russian Federation.

On the other hand, please finish Ukraine first, then we will talk, it's pointless to talking about how Russia is going to roll over US or UK or NATO when they can't even roll over Ukraine..........


----------



## zartosht

jhungary said:


> First of all, you do know Russian Empire (the Russian you mentioned on defeating Sweden and Napoleon) are a lot bigger than probably even USSR, right?
> 
> View attachment 856196
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, I have no intention to answer any of your post, because well, I don't really indulge in fantasy. I am just saying all that you said is not the same Russia now, Both USSR and Russian Empire is not the same as Russian Federation.
> 
> On the other hand, please finish Ukraine first, then we will talk, it's pointless to talking about how Russia is going to roll over US or UK or NATO when they can't even roll over Ukraine..........



Mr. super inteligence agent/ miliatry sof, master strategist to put rommel to shame and the guy who taught michael jackson the moonwalk ( if i missed any of your other qualifications or talents such as walking on water, or converting goat piss into wine, let me know please and i apologize in advance)

But its the exact same state, with the exact same unlimited strategic depth offered.

The inly difference is the nuke factor which makes todays russia 1000x more dangerous. Because it can literally anahilate any country by pushing a few buttons


Your pathetic attempts at trying to deflect because russia is slightly smaller on the map is par for the course for you fake gi joe

Did you ever find out if that picture was the invincible us stroooonk artillery? Because westerb magic wubderwaff weapons are invincible accoridng to western propoganda

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540003503627767814

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540021829426896896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540021706114351104

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540021283240509441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540021248629030912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540021218337820672


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## jhungary

zartosht said:


> Mr. super inteligence agent/ miliatry sof, master strategist to put rommel to shame and the guy who taught michael jackson the moonwalk ( if i missed any of your other qualifications or talents such as walking on water, or converting goat piss into wine, let me know please and i apologize in advance)
> 
> *But its the exact same state,* with the exact same unlimited strategic depth offered.
> 
> The inly difference is the nuke factor which makes todays russia 1000x more dangerous. Because it can literally anahilate any country by pushing a few buttons
> 
> 
> Your pathetic attempts at trying to deflect because *russia is slightly smaller on the map* is par for the course for you fake gi joe
> 
> Did you ever find out if that picture was the invincible us stroooonk artillery? Because westerb magic wubderwaff weapons are invincible accoridng to western propoganda


Ok, Russian Empire is the exact same state as Russian Federation. I guess the people in Alaska didn't really get the memo that they are not used to be part of Russian Empire but Russian Federation.

And I am not going say Russia is slightly smaller when it does not have part of Sweden, the whole Finland, the entire Manchuria, inner Mongolia, the Central Asian state and Alaska. The combine land area of all these is more or less 1.8 million sq km, roughly the size of Indonesia (14th biggest country in the world). Hell even back in 1912, Russian Empire have more people than Current day Russian Federation

But sure, sure, sure, Mr Iranian think that is not much losing the entire land mass of Indonesia is not much.....of course........

LOL


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540016110988365824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540015337181151232

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540020375299538944

New weapons package today with four additional HIMARS

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540015646787911680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540015158856130561

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540012344318779394

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540003838220013568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539999924540129281


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540020375299538944
> 
> New weapons package today with four additional HIMARS



Mi-28N/NM eats HIMARS for breakfast, lunch, dinner, dessert. These export downgraded HIMARS only have basic 30 km range rockets.









Episode 17. Mi-28N. Natural-born hunter


The Mi-28N Night Hunter is a Russian new-generation strike helicopter. It’s called the Night Hunter for a reason: this aircraft operates at day and night in ...




youtu.be













Episode 185. Mi-28NM. The top-tier striker


The new upgraded Mi-28NM Hight Hunter helicopter with the maximum possible list of equipment. It has become more powerful, more durable, smarter, and the new...




youtu.be

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539938294531649537

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## F-22Raptor

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540015646787911680
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540015158856130561
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540012344318779394
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540003838220013568
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539999924540129281
> 
> 
> Mi-28N/NM eats HIMARS for breakfast, lunch, dinner, dessert. These export downgraded HIMARS only have basic 30 km range rockets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Episode 17. Mi-28N. Natural-born hunter
> 
> 
> The Mi-28N Night Hunter is a Russian new-generation strike helicopter. It’s called the Night Hunter for a reason: this aircraft operates at day and night in ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> youtu.be
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Episode 185. Mi-28NM. The top-tier striker
> 
> 
> The new upgraded Mi-28NM Hight Hunter helicopter with the maximum possible list of equipment. It has become more powerful, more durable, smarter, and the new...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> youtu.be




False, the M26 rockets have all been scrapped in the US arsenal. Ukraine will be receiving the M30/M31 rockets.


----------



## Viet

zartosht said:


> One would have thought the Germans learned their lesson about messing with Russia after ww2?
> 
> *400 full stregnth wehrmacht divisions* that absolutely slaughtered any western army on its path. the strongest army ever assmebled in human history in that point.
> 
> backed up with* 30 ss divisions, finland, romania, and various alli*es. Launched an all out invasion on Russia(largest and most powerful in human history, numbering several millions) . Which had at the time purged 1/3 of its officer corps, and was in total dissaray and considered weak and pathetic.....
> 
> The Russians absolutely slaughtered this army, burned the entire country to the ground, placed their flag on the parliament building, and raped the entire female popuation of germany, cut them down to half in size, and forever removed them as a geopolitical power.
> 
> now this feminist cuckold scholz thinks hes going to take on todays Russia with his tranny army? Russians armed to the teeth with enough nukes to wipe out civilizaiton many times over?
> 
> Germany will eat nukes 50 times over before they get a chance to throw another firecracker towards Russsia. The Russians have 0 tolerance for any new german aggresiion.


Hitler made major mistakes, the three German army groups launched invasion too late. The winter came too early. otherwise the history would be different. The spearhead of German tank corps stood just few kilometers before Moscow.
Same today. Putin started the war, believing Russia army would roll over Ukraine in 3 days.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540021969869017088


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

zartosht said:


> Did sweden when it was the greatest and had an “invincible” undefeated army, withone of their best military kings get slaughtered because of ussr?
> 
> Did napoleans grande armee get slaughtered becausr of the ussr?
> 
> 
> Todays Russia is far more powerful when it comes to brute strenghth
> 
> The Russians can just as eaasily use terrain and unlimited strategic depth to repeat the exact same formula. While being armed in a way to absolutely anahilate the invading armys country into a glass parking lot
> 
> Sweden
> France
> Germany
> And now the US
> 
> 4 of the most powerful empires on earth during their time made the mistake of messing with Russia
> 
> Starting to see a pattern?
> 
> 
> But your more then welcome to keep your delusions as much as you want. Hitler believed victory was a counter attack away right untill he could hear Russian fire outside his bunker. Delusions cant save you. They might keep morale up for a bit at most


Your pattern is of course due to the Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy.








Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy


The Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy is an analysis of outcomes that can give the illusion of causation rather than attributing the outcomes to chance.




www.investopedia.com





Your pattern breaks down when you remove your blindfold and add the conquest of Moscow 1610, Narva 1700, Austerlitz 1805 and Eastern Front in WWI.

Charles XII did not ”mess with Russia” as Russia, Denmark and Poland declared war on Sweden.


----------



## Apollon

Special fire operation at russian gas pipelines.


Ahhh how i love the screams of russiam villagers

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## Paul2

Interesting developments today:

It's said that Russians are running out of 122mm ammo because... the only functioning 122mm factory in the world was in Ukraine.

While Ukraine lost a hack a lot of 122mm ammo, it's stocks must still be bigger.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540011590891749376

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540043291114233856

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540043866413453312

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540040638154133507

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540037911697137666

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540037516908281856

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
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## Viet

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540043291114233856
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540043866413453312
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540040638154133507
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540037911697137666
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540037516908281856


Ukraine is anti Russia than ever before.
Ukraine contact group has 50 countries.
The EU is strengthening.
The Nato is strengthening.
The US is strengthening.
Germany, France, UK accelerating military buildup.
Russia meanwhile becomes weaker, poorer. Putin has the choice: become a chinese or india colony.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Ukraine says it has received supplies of long-range rocket systems from the US [File: Fadel Senna/AFP]


Published On 23 Jun 202223 Jun 2022
Ukraine says it has taken delivery of US supplies of High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS), a powerful long-range weapon system that Kyiv hopes can help turn the tide on Russia’s invasion.

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## NotSure

Viet said:


> Ukraine says it has received supplies of long-range rocket systems from the US [File: Fadel Senna/AFP]
> 
> 
> Published On 23 Jun 202223 Jun 2022
> Ukraine says it has taken delivery of US supplies of High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS), a powerful long-range weapon system that Kyiv hopes can help turn the tide on Russia’s invasion.


Modern ukropian Nazis are like the original nazis in the good old days in the 3. Reich: The wonder weapons will bring the endsieg.

This HIMARS toy will change nothing on the strategic level, maybe not even on the tactical level. Few launchers with only 6 missiles per launcher, wich are by the way easy targets for russian air def like Pantsir and Tor. The only way is to target areas without air def or saturate the defender, but how you wanna do it with only 6 missiles/rockets per launcher?


But the endsieg will yours.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540063797116899334

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## MeFishToo

NotSure said:


> Modern ukropian Nazis are like the original nazis in the good old days in the 3. Reich: The wonder weapons will bring the endsieg.
> 
> This HIMARS toy will change nothing on the strategic level, not even on the tactical level. Few launchers with only 6 missiles per launcher, wich are by the way easy targets for russian air def like Pantsir and Tor.
> 
> 
> But the endsieg will yours.


So no need for Russia to complain about western aid to Ukraine.


----------



## NotSure

MeFishToo said:


> So no need for Russia to complain about western aid to Ukraine.


I am looking forward to the point, when this himars got destroyed and our "Military Man" will be butthurt² and pollute this thread with walls of garbage text, why it can't be the himars.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540065016749195271

The 105mm ammo is for the howitzers sent by the UK and NZ.

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## MeFishToo

NotSure said:


> I am looking forward to the point, when this himars got destroyed and our "Military Man" will be butthurt² and pollute this thread with walls of garbage text, why it can't be the himars.


I think his posts are good. More informative than the reposting of pro-russian twitter accounts glorifying imaginary russian advances and equipment.


----------



## kingQamaR

Paul2 said:


> Interesting developments today:
> 
> It's said that Russians are running out of 122mm ammo because... the only functioning 122mm factory in the world was in Ukraine.
> 
> While Ukraine lost a hack a lot of 122mm ammo, it's stocks must still be bigger.



If there is one thing that the Russians are not short on, it’s artillery ammunition. The Russians spent the entire Cold War building up a massive stockpile of artillery shells, totally unprecedented in all mankind, in preparation for World War III. Russia can continue the war at this level of intensity for years if not decades that’s one think I think they are not short of ?

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## aziqbal

Ok after watching this war for over 120 days I have come to the following conclusion

Zelensky has clearly not showed any regard for Ukrainian lives

he continues to ask for more weapons pushing his troops into the meat grinder all the while Russia is moving forward metre by metre

Western countries have clearly not shown any regard for Ukrainian lives and NATO will fight Russia until last Ukrainian

poor Ukrainians are being targeted in this Geopolitical game and women and children are being slaughtered

no matter what Ukraine gets from West, 155mm howitzers or MIg29 at the end the victory will be for Russia

because quite simply, history tells us no one can really win in a land war against Russia even after 20 years these guys just keep coming and they have almost unlimited resources and 10s of thousands of tanks in storage

you dont become the largest nation on earth by giving up land those lands Russia has taken will never ever return to Ukraine

best deal is a peace deal, give Russia the security guarantees it wants and hand over the whole Donbas to Russia and Crimea they already have

otherwise Russia will march all way to Moldova and even further



Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540063797116899334



Well done now you will destroy the rest of your nation 

this guy is a complete lunatic 

I dont even think he is Ukrainian, Russia could have taken everything in 2014 but they stopped at Crimea 

this clown kept poking the bear for 8 long years and finally the bear chased him 

he talks with so much confidence why? why so much ego? because he knows who his backers are 

I can only feel for the poor Ukrainians they always helped everything and had a open door policy

Reactions: Like Like:
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## ZeGerman

zartosht said:


> Todays Russia is far more powerful when it comes to brute strenghth
> 
> The Russians can just as eaasily use terrain and unlimited strategic depth to repeat the exact same formula. While being armed in a way to absolutely anahilate the invading armys country into a glass parking lot
> 
> Sweden
> France
> Germany
> And now the US
> 
> 4 of the most powerful empires on earth during their time made the mistake of messing with Russia
> 
> Starting to see a pattern?


Well if russia is stupid enough to take the fight against Nato (and allied block) then it is taking on 

Sweden
France
Germany
USA
All in one go. Nations that singlehandedly brought russia to the brink…
And throw in UK and Japan as well (nations russia saw humiliating defeats against).

And russia really does not have a lot of that fabled strategic depth left. With ukraine becoming firmly anti-russian and belarussia unstable…thats basically starting where the germans left off….moscow is not that far off….

Still feeling confident?


----------



## MeFishToo

aziqbal said:


> Ok after watching this war for over 120 days I have come to the following conclusion
> 
> Zelensky has clearly not showed any regard for Ukrainian lives
> 
> he continues to ask for more weapons pushing his troops into the meat grinder all the while Russia is moving forward metre by metre
> 
> Western countries have clearly not shown any regard for Ukrainian lives and NATO will fight Russia until last Ukrainian
> 
> poor Ukrainians are being targeted in this Geopolitical game and women and children are being slaughtered
> 
> no matter what Ukraine gets from West, 155mm howitzers or MIg29 at the end the victory will be for Russia
> 
> because quite simply, history tells us no one can really win in a land war against Russia even after 20 years these guys just keep coming and they have almost unlimited resources and 10s of thousands of tanks in storage
> 
> you dont become the largest nation on earth by giving up land those lands Russia has taken will never ever return to Ukraine
> 
> best deal is a peace deal, give Russia the security guarantees it wants and hand over the whole Donbas to Russia and Crimea they already have
> 
> otherwise Russia will march all way to Moldova and even further
> 
> 
> 
> Well done now you will destroy the rest of your nation
> 
> this guy is a complete lunatic
> 
> I dont even think he is Ukrainian, Russia could have taken everything in 2014 but they stopped at Crimea
> 
> this clown kept poking the bear for 8 long years and finally the bear chased him
> 
> he talks with so much confidence why? why so much ego? because he knows who his backers are
> 
> I can only feel for the poor Ukrainians they always helped everything and had a open door policy


What makes you think Russia wont march on to Moldova if Ukraine hands over territory to Russia?
I think Ukraine has taught us Russia cant just march on in any direction they want. Seems obvious any well equipt and motivated force is able to stop them on the ground. Ukraine backed by NATO is never going to loose to Russias peacetime armed forces, and I dont think the russian population is going to accept mobilization in order to fight a war outside Russia. Most interviews of younger russians Ive watched shows indifference or apathy about the war and the russian political leadership.


----------



## NotSure

aziqbal said:


> Ok after watching this war for over 120 days I have come to the following conclusion
> 
> Zelensky has clearly not showed any regard for Ukrainian lives
> 
> he continues to ask for more weapons pushing his troops into the meat grinder all the while Russia is moving forward metre by metre
> 
> Western countries have clearly not shown any regard for Ukrainian lives and NATO will fight Russia until last Ukrainian
> 
> poor Ukrainians are being targeted in this Geopolitical game and women and children are being slaughtered
> 
> no matter what Ukraine gets from West, 155mm howitzers or MIg29 at the end the victory will be for Russia
> 
> because quite simply, history tells us no one can really win in a land war against Russia even after 20 years these guys just keep coming and they have almost unlimited resources and 10s of thousands of tanks in storage
> 
> you dont become the largest nation on earth by giving up land those lands Russia has taken will never ever return to Ukraine
> 
> best deal is a peace deal, give Russia the security guarantees it wants and hand over the whole Donbas to Russia and Crimea they already have
> 
> otherwise Russia will march all way to Moldova and even further
> 
> 
> 
> Well done now you will destroy the rest of your nation
> 
> this guy is a complete lunatic
> 
> I dont even think he is Ukrainian, Russia could have taken everything in 2014 but they stopped at Crimea
> 
> this clown kept poking the bear for 8 long years and finally the bear chased him
> 
> he talks with so much confidence why? why so much ego? because he knows who his backers are
> 
> I can only feel for the poor Ukrainians they always helped everything and had a open door policy


Here in germany Kuleba basically said, they will force the last Ukrainians to fight with a shovel against the Russians.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540081840769343488


----------



## BloodyPak96

ZeGerman said:


> Well if russia is stupid enough to take the fight against Nato (and allied block) then it is taking on
> 
> Sweden
> France
> Germany
> USA
> All in one go. Nations that singlehandedly brought russia to the brink…
> And throw in UK and Japan as well (nations russia saw humiliating defeats against).
> 
> And russia really does not have a lot of that fabled strategic depth left. With ukraine becoming firmly anti-russian and belarussia unstable…thats basically starting where the germans left off….moscow is not that far off….
> 
> Still feeling confident?


I've seen alot of idiots like you since this war began. People like you are talking about conventional war between russia and nato like that's going to be the case. If there is a war, its gonna be nuclear, and then you can discuss who has the better military if you survive long enough to do so.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## MeFishToo

NotSure said:


> Here in germany Kuleba basically said, they will force the last Ukrainians to fight with a shovel against the Russians.


Richard Black has been used by RT for years, commenting on US and NATO affairs. Anyone being used by RT is not someone I would trust analysing the situation in Ukraine.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Paul2

kingQamaR said:


> If there is one thing that the Russians are not short on, it’s artillery ammunition. The Russians spent the entire Cold War building up a massive stockpile of artillery shells, totally unprecedented in all mankind, in preparation for World War III. Russia can continue the war at this level of intensity for years if not decades that’s one think I think they are not short of ?



Yes, they still have 152 in abundance though, but a big chunk on their tube arty using 122 is about to go dry (Gvozdik, D-30, D-74)

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## ZeGerman

BloodyPak96 said:


> I've seen alot of idiots like you since this war began. People like you are talking about conventional war between russia and nato like that's going to be the case. If there is a war, its gonna be nuclear, and then you can discuss who has the better military if you survive long enough to do so.


I am talking conventionally cause with nuclear everyone loses. Nato can glass russia many times over and vice versa.


----------



## MeFishToo

ZeGerman said:


> I am talking conventionally cause with nuclear everyone loses. Nato can glass russia many times over and vice versa.


NATO is never going to invade russian territory anyway, since NATO is all about defence. Still everybody talks nuclear if someone mentions Russia is unable to defeat NATO. As if Russia would go all nuclear if they took a lucky shot at the baltic nations, and got a beating and send back home by NATO.

I still think NATO should have send its airforce above western Ukraine the moment Russia invaded, and called Putins bluff. Let him worry about nuclear holocaust, why should we?


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

NotSure said:


> Modern ukropian Nazis are like the original nazis in the good old days in the 3. Reich: The wonder weapons will bring the endsieg.
> 
> This HIMARS toy will change nothing on the strategic level, maybe not even on the tactical level. Few launchers with only 6 missiles per launcher, wich are by the way easy targets for russian air def like Pantsir and Tor. The only way is to target areas without air def or saturate the defender, but how you wanna do it with only 6 missiles/rockets per launcher?
> 
> 
> But the endsieg will yours.


Meanwhile the Hypersonic weapons are no longer bringing the Endsieg like they were supposed to do.


----------



## kingQamaR

MeFishToo said:


> NATO is never going to invade russian territory anyway, since NATO is all about defence. Still everybody talks nuclear if someone mentions Russia is unable to defeat NATO. As if Russia would go all nuclear if they took a lucky shot at the baltic nations, and got a beating and send back home by NATO.
> 
> I still think NATO should have send its airforce above western Ukraine the moment Russia invaded, and called Putins bluff. Let him worry about nuclear holocaust, why should we?



So he thinks the way out of this is for his country to nuke ALL of the TWENTY EIGHT countries of Nato. Wow. They US alone has 18 Ohio class, nuclear missile carrying submarines, all carrying 14 such missiles each of which have 8 war heads, and his government has no defense for that platform. They could be anywhere. Do the math. That is over 2,000 warheads, and we would need a tiny fraction of that to glass their entire country. He isn't going to get his half an hour. His country would be turned into a parking lot 5 minutes after the first missile was fired. These people are desperate to be throwing out these laughable threats. They don't at all sound like people that are winning a war, do they.


----------



## MeFishToo

kingQamaR said:


> So he thinks the way out of this is for his country to nuke ALL of the TWENTY EIGHT countries of Nato. Wow. They US alone has 18 Ohio class, nuclear missile carrying submarines, all carrying 14 such missiles each of which have 8 war heads, and his government has no defense for that platform. They could be anywhere. Do the math. That is over 2,000 warheads, and we would need a tiny fraction of that to glass their entire country. He isn't going to get his half an hour. His country would be turned into a parking lot 5 minutes after the first missile was fired. These people are desperate to be throwing out these laughable threats. They don't at all sound like people that are winning a war, do they.


Exactly. Talking nuclear is a clear sign of weakness. Putin knows if NATO (infact US, UK, France) were deploying expeditionary forces and NATO airpower to Ukraine, his ukrainian adventure would be all over. Thats why he was beating his chest upfront implying nuclear war was an option.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540038000687681549

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540032253228711938

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540039399941062656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540095090814853122

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540093900907597825

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540096140930158593

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540105007978143744

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## patero

aziqbal said:


> Ok after watching this war for over 120 days I have come to the following conclusion
> 
> Zelensky has clearly not showed any regard for Ukrainian lives
> 
> he continues to ask for more weapons pushing his troops into the meat grinder all the while Russia is moving forward metre by metre
> 
> Western countries have clearly not shown any regard for Ukrainian lives and NATO will fight Russia until last Ukrainian
> 
> poor Ukrainians are being targeted in this Geopolitical game and women and children are being slaughtered
> 
> no matter what Ukraine gets from West, 155mm howitzers or MIg29 at the end the victory will be for Russia
> 
> because quite simply, history tells us no one can really win in a land war against Russia even after 20 years these guys just keep coming and they have almost unlimited resources and 10s of thousands of tanks in storage
> 
> you dont become the largest nation on earth by giving up land those lands Russia has taken will never ever return to Ukraine
> 
> best deal is a peace deal, give Russia the security guarantees it wants and hand over the whole Donbas to Russia and Crimea they already have
> 
> otherwise Russia will march all way to Moldova and even further
> 
> 
> 
> Well done now you will destroy the rest of your nation
> 
> this guy is a complete lunatic
> 
> I dont even think he is Ukrainian, Russia could have taken everything in 2014 but they stopped at Crimea
> 
> this clown kept poking the bear for 8 long years and finally the bear chased him
> 
> he talks with so much confidence why? why so much ego? because he knows who his backers are
> 
> I can only feel for the poor Ukrainians they always helped everything and had a open door policy


You could make the same arguement of any wartime leader, 'he doesn't value life' is a redundant statement. Your post is a mis-characterization of Zelensky and highly emotive and cynical, evident in the language you use such as 'lunatic', 'clown' etc. 

And you seem to be forgetting Zelensky was very hesitant to provoke Russia in the lead up to the invasion. He didn't mobilize and was very cautious in his actions and words, refusing to accept the advice he was receiving from the US regarding the imminent invasion. Hardly the actions of the 'lunatic' and 'clown' you describe.


----------



## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540096140930158593


Still unguided missiles volleyed in the direction of the ukrainian frontline. Where are those BVR hermes missiles you keep talking about?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540097360239493121

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540101512633909256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540103049288552448


MeFishToo said:


> Still unguided missiles volleyed in the direction of the ukrainian frontline. Where are those BVR hermes missiles you keep talking about?



Unguided rockets are used for area attack. Hermes is used for attacking long range artillery like HIMARS.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539913225592094721


----------



## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540097360239493121
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540101512633909256
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540103049288552448
> 
> 
> Unguided rockets are used for area attack. Hermes is used for attacking long range artillery like HIMARS.


Only long range artillery? I thought it was an anti armor missile. Maybe Russia doesnt have more to spare than 10 missiles for the HIMARS launchers?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Only long range artillery? I thought it was an anti armor missile. Maybe Russia doesnt have more to spare than 10 missiles for the HIMARS launchers?



Russia buys whatever parts they need from China. Russia has no shortage of parts. Russia is one of China's vassal states. Vassal.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540104530817388546

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540104416220561408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540104203317673984

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540104203128954881


----------



## zectech

MeFishToo said:


> NATO is never going to invade russian territory anyway, since NATO is all about defence. Still everybody talks nuclear if someone mentions Russia is unable to defeat NATO. As if Russia would go all nuclear if they took a lucky shot at the baltic nations, and got a beating and send back home by NATO.
> 
> I still think NATO should have send its airforce above western Ukraine the moment Russia invaded, and called Putins bluff. Let him worry about nuclear holocaust, why should we?


US does not have the stomach for MAD or even threats on MAD, _with Russia_.

US went crazy over demands for a no fly zone which would have ended the conflict on day one.






US wanted to invade Iraq, Libya, Syria, Somalia, Sudan, Lebanon and Iran in 5 years.






Yet, won't stand up to Russia invading Europe in the biggest European War since WWII With a no fly zone led only by nuclear powers of UK/Fr/US, for the excuse of US would *never* allow a nuclear war.

That means Putin can invade the rest of Europe and threaten nuclear war if the US gets involved and the United States WOULD BACK DOWN. "Can't allow a nuclear war to happen, have to let Russia invade half the globe", says Washingtonites.

Now Trump tried to start a conflict with China and Washington is jumping around like crazed buffoons in excitement over a war with China. That war could go nuclear, and Washington does not care. Washington wants war with China, does not want to save Europe from Putin. US has classified ICBM defenses and is saving those for a war with China to have a nuke exchange and US not touched. China would probably nuke "United States foe" Europe for Chinese "revenge" and Washington would be happy the EU "FOE" would be nuked.

"I think the European Union is a foe," Trump says ahead of Putin meeting in Helsinki​








"I think the European Union is a foe," Trump says ahead of Putin meeting in Helsinki


"I think the European Union is a foe, what they do to us in trade. Now, you wouldn't think of the European Union, but they're a foe," President Trump tells CBS News




www.cbsnews.com





Mark Meadows and Trump on their foes: We want them destroyed.

The US has this Ukraine war rigged, the Chinese planned war rigged. Peace destroys Trump and Putin. War benefits Washington. Europe has to save their economy and win against Putin, and don't expect the US to do much.

the Russians have (working and broken)
~14,000 Tanks
~14,000 IFV
~14,000 Artillery

(wikipedia says more in main page on Russian military ground forces)

Sending 130 artillery is a drop in the bucket

In the beginning of the war, you had twitter retards saying that Ukraine needs to only attack Russian fuel trucks that if Russian vehicles can't re-fuel, then Ukraine wins.

Ummm... a Ford truck can transport fuel in fuel cans. Russia has near limitless fuel from oil (16% of Russian exports is refined Petroleum - gasoline, Kerosene, fuel oil, etc). And can seize pick-up trucks from citizens and use these as fuel carriers. So near limitless fuel carriers too.

The UK/US/Ukraine is full blown retarded in fighting this war. As is by design.

Washington: Russia has 14K tanks and 14K artillery, what should we send to Ukraine.
Washington: 5 howitzers
Ukraine: We need more than that
Washington: 10, How about 10
Ukraine: Please more
Washington: Ok, ok! 100, that should turn the tide of war.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540103686076203008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540103473857024002

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540101574550343690

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540101240620830720

Reactions: Like Like:
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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia buys whatever parts they need from China. Russia has no shortage of parts. Russia is one of China's vassal states. Vassal.


Seems to be the answer everytime you are challenged - if not Russia, China will do it. Let us know when the first chineese weapon system or soldier sets foot in Ukraine.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540022283862933504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539905833777127424

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539970661887512579

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539819987753377793


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539836782560288770

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539822481095045120

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539954529592086528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539756823074439168

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Paul2

zectech said:


> US does not have the stomach for MAD or even threats on MAD, _with Russia_.
> 
> US went crazy over demands for a no fly zone which would have ended the conflict on day one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US wanted to invade Iraq, Libya, Syria, Somalia, Sudan, Lebanon and Iran in 5 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet, won't stand up to Russia invading Europe in the biggest European War since WWII With a no fly zone led only by nuclear powers of UK/Fr/US, for the excuse of US would *never* allow a nuclear war.
> 
> That means Putin can invade the rest of Europe and threaten nuclear war if the US gets involved and the United States WOULD BACK DOWN. "Can't allow a nuclear war to happen, have to let Russia invade half the globe", says Washingtonites.
> 
> Now Trump tried to start a conflict with China and Washington is jumping around like crazed buffoons in excitement over a war with China. That war could go nuclear, and Washington does not care. Washington wants war with China, does not want to save Europe from Putin. US has classified ICBM defenses and is saving those for a war with China to have a nuke exchange and US not touched. China would probably nuke "United States foe" Europe for Chinese "revenge" and Washington would be happy the EU "FOE" would be nuked.
> 
> "I think the European Union is a foe," Trump says ahead of Putin meeting in Helsinki​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "I think the European Union is a foe," Trump says ahead of Putin meeting in Helsinki
> 
> 
> "I think the European Union is a foe, what they do to us in trade. Now, you wouldn't think of the European Union, but they're a foe," President Trump tells CBS News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cbsnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Meadows and Trump on their foes: We want them destroyed.
> 
> The US has this Ukraine war rigged, the Chinese planned war rigged. Peace destroys Trump and Putin. War benefits Washington. Europe has to save their economy and win against Putin, and don't expect the US to do much.
> 
> the Russians have (working and broken)
> ~14,000 Tanks
> ~14,000 IFV
> ~14,000 Artillery
> 
> Sending 130 artillery is a drop in the bucket
> 
> In the beginning of the war, you had twitter retards saying that Ukraine needs to only attack Russian fuel trucks that if Russian vehicles can't re-fuel, then Ukraine wins.
> 
> Ummm... a Ford truck can transport fuel in fuel cans. Russia has near limitless fuel from oil. And can seize pick-up trucks from citizens and use these as fuel carriers. So near limitless fuel carriers too.
> 
> The UK/US/Ukraine is full blown retarded in fighting this war. As is by design.
> 
> Washington: Russia has 14K tanks and 14K artillery, what should we send to Ukraine.
> Washington: 5 howitzers
> Ukraine: We need more than that
> Washington: 10, How about 10
> Ukraine: Please more
> Washington: Ok, ok! 100, that should turn the tide of war.



Actually, Russian fuel production is suprisingly tiny for such a large nation, with so much oil


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540012907668414465

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540001975915388929

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539966319449100289

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540021706114351104

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540021283240509441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540021248629030912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540021218337820672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540016172288118786

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## ckf

aziqbal said:


> Ok after watching this war for over 120 days I have come to the following conclusion
> 
> Zelensky has clearly not showed any regard for Ukrainian lives
> 
> he continues to ask for more weapons pushing his troops into the meat grinder all the while Russia is moving forward metre by metre
> 
> Western countries have clearly not shown any regard for Ukrainian lives and NATO will fight Russia until last Ukrainian
> 
> poor Ukrainians are being targeted in this Geopolitical game and women and children are being slaughtered
> 
> no matter what Ukraine gets from West, 155mm howitzers or MIg29 at the end the victory will be for Russia
> 
> because quite simply, history tells us no one can really win in a land war against Russia even after 20 years these guys just keep coming and they have almost unlimited resources and 10s of thousands of tanks in storage
> 
> you dont become the largest nation on earth by giving up land those lands Russia has taken will never ever return to Ukraine
> 
> best deal is a peace deal, give Russia the security guarantees it wants and hand over the whole Donbas to Russia and Crimea they already have
> 
> otherwise Russia will march all way to Moldova and even further
> 
> 
> 
> Well done now you will destroy the rest of your nation
> 
> this guy is a complete lunatic
> 
> I dont even think he is Ukrainian, Russia could have taken everything in 2014 but they stopped at Crimea
> 
> this clown kept poking the bear for 8 long years and finally the bear chased him
> 
> he talks with so much confidence why? why so much ego? because he knows who his backers are
> 
> I can only feel for the poor Ukrainians they always helped everything and had a open door policy


History just keep repeating itself. EU is sleepwalking into conventional war with Russia...Neither side will go nuclear, but we might see Germans fighting in the frontlines in Ukraine and Lithuania, and people will be saying Russians are the Nazis, how ironic? Get the popcorn, Elon's Twitter ready to explode. Eventually this war will become America China Proxy War. EU will find out the pain felt by Egyptian, Libyans, Afghanistan, and Iraqis, all because of this Zelensky fiction created by US.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540038297568907264

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1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540128317243904000

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2


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## The SC

ckf said:


> History just keep repeating itself. EU is sleepwalking into conventional war with Russia...Neither side will go nuclear, but we might see Germans fighting in the frontlines in Ukraine and Lithuania, and people will be saying Russians are the Nazis, how ironic? Get the popcorn, Elon's Twitter ready to explode. Eventually this war will become America China Proxy War. EU will find out the pain felt by Egyptian, Libyans, Afghanistan, and Iraqis, all because of this Zelensky fiction created by US.


If NATO intervenes (most unlikely).. Russia will go nuclear for sure.. as NATO has more than 50 000 more IFVs and more than 17 000 more military airplanes than Russia.. This is no joke..

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540016110988365824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540015838161428480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540015337181151232

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1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540013449132085251

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1


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540012795089018885


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540104203317673984


----------



## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 23​Jun 23, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF
*
Karolina Hird, Kateryna Stepanenko, Mason Clark, and Grace Mappes
June 23, 6:15 pm ET*​*Click here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Ongoing Belarusian mobilization exercises will continue in Gomel Oblast until July 1 but are unlikely to be in preparation for direct Belarusian involvement in the war in Ukraine. *The Belarusian Ministry of Defense announced on June 22 that the Belarusian Armed Forces will conduct a mobilization exercise with the military commissariats of Gomel Oblast to test the readiness of the military reserve from June 22 to July 1.[1] The Ukrainian State Border Guard Service warned on June 23 that Belarusian forces may conduct provocations along the border with Ukraine over the backdrop of these exercises, and Belarusian-Russian military cooperation has seemingly intensified.[2] Belarusian Defense Minister Viktor Khrenin met with Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu in Moscow on June 23 to discuss ongoing bilateral military agreements.[3] Belarusian social media users additionally reported that Russian planes transported at least 16 S-400 missiles and one Pantsir system to the Gomel airport on June 21 and 22.[4]
While Belarus and Russia retain close military cooperation and the ongoing Belarusian exercises are likely intended in part to threaten Ukraine, Belarus remains unlikely to enter the war in Ukraine on behalf of Russia. As ISW has previously assessed, Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko likely cannot afford the domestic consequences of involving his limited military assets in a costly foreign war.[5] Unsupported Belarusian forces are additionally highly unlikely to be effective, and Russia lacks the reserves necessary to conduct another offensive toward Kyiv. These exercises are undoubtedly intended to posture and threaten Ukrainian border areas but are unlikely to preempt actual involvement in hostilities.
*Russian forces have made substantial gains in the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area over the last several days and Ukrainian troops continue to suffer high casualties, but Ukrainian forces have fundamentally accomplished their objective in the battle by slowing down and degrading Russian forces. *Head of the Luhansk Oblast Administration Serhiy Haidai stated on June 23 that Ukrainian troops may have to retreat to avoid encirclement in Lysychansk, which indicates that Ukrainian authorities are setting conditions to prepare for the ultimate loss of both Severodonetsk and Lysychansk.[6] As ISW has previously assessed, however, the loss of Severodonetsk and Lysychansk will not represent a major turning point in the war.[7] Ukrainian troops have succeeded for weeks in drawing substantial quantities of Russian personnel, weapons, and equipment into the area and have likely degraded Russian forces' overall capabilities while preventing Russian forces from focusing on more advantageous axes of advance. Russian offensive operations will likely stall in the coming weeks, whether or not Russian forces capture the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area, likely granting Ukrainian forces the opportunity to launch prudent counteroffensives. The Kremlin’s ideological fixation on the capture of Severodonetsk, much like the earlier siege of Azovstal, will likely be to the ultimate detriment of Russian capabilities in future advances in Ukraine. The loss of Severodonetsk is a loss for Ukraine in the sense that _any _terrain captured by Russian forces is a loss—but the battle of Severodonetsk will not be a decisive Russian victory.
*Key Takeaways*

*Belarusian forces are conducting mobilization exercises along the Ukrainian border but are unlikely to enter the war in Ukraine due to their low capabilities and the adverse domestic implications of military involvement on behalf of Russia.*
*Russian forces have likely reached the southern outskirts of Lysychansk and are reinforcing their grouping around Severodonetsk to complete the capture of both Severodonetsk and Lysychansk. These gains remain unlikely to provide Russian forces with a decisive edge in further operations in Ukraine and have further degraded Russian capabilities.*
*Russian forces are continuing efforts to encircle the Ukrainian grouping in Hirske and Zolote and are likely moving to take control of these settlements.*
*Russian forces have likely successfully interdicted Ukrainian lines of communication along the T1302 highway and are using recent gains along the highway to reinforce assaults on Lysychansk.*
*Russian forces amassed equipment and continued building defensive capabilities along the Southern Axis.*



*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued offensive operations to drive north toward Lysychansk and reached the southern outskirts of the city on June 23. Ukrainian sources confirmed on June 23 that Russian troops captured Rai-Oleksandrivka and Luskotivka on June 22, which will allow Russian forces to launch further advances toward Lysychansk without having to complete an opposed river crossing from within Severodonetsk.[8] Several Ukrainian and Russian sources reported fighting south of Lysychansk in Bila Hora, Myrna Dolyna, and Vovchoyarivka, all within 5 km of Lysychansk.[9] The UK Ministry of Defense confirmed that Russian forces have advanced to within 5 km of southern Lysychansk.[10] Russian Telegram channel Rybar claimed that Russian forces have made it as far as the southern outskirts of Lysychansk and are fighting within the industrial zone of the city, but ISW cannot confirm this claim.[11] Russian forces have also likely restricted Ukrainian access to lines of communication into Lysychansk and can shell large areas of both the Siversk-Lysychansk and Bakhmut-Lysychansk highways.[12]



Russian forces are reinforcing their grouping around Severodonetsk in order to complete the capture of the city. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that elements of the 2nd Army Corps (the Armed Forces of the Luhansk People’s Republic) and Rosgvardia (Russian National Guard) are fighting to establish full control of Severodonetsk.[13] Rosgvardia is notably not intended to be a frontline combat force, and their involvement in direct fights for control of contested territory indicates that Russian troops in the Severodonetsk area are severely degraded and relying on secondary forces to support operations. The BBC’s Russian service previously reported on June 21 that Rosgvardia and Wagner Group personnel are providing Russia’s main assault force in Severodonetsk, likely due to a lack of dedicated infantry in frontline Russian units.[14] Ukrainian parliamentarian and military expert Dmytro Snyegerev stated that Russian forces are moving modern S-300V4 anti-aircraft air defense missile systems to the Severodonetsk area in order to protect their forces from the Ukrainian air force and drones.[15] Russian forces reportedly moved one battalion tactical group (BTG) from the Central Military District to Novotoshivske, south of the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area, likely in support of operations to complete the capture of the rest of Luhansk Oblast.[16]
Russian forces have likely moved to complete the encirclement of Ukrainian troops in Zolote and Hirske but have not yet taken full control of both settlements.[17] Russian sources claimed that Russian troops are clearing Zolote, Hirske, and the surrounding areas, and geolocated combat footage from June 23 showed Russian troops entering Hirske itself from the east.[18] Neither official Ukrainian nor Russian sources have confirmed the capture of Zolote and Hirske, however, and Russian forces are likely still fighting to establish total control of this area.
Russian forces continued efforts to interdict Ukrainian lines of communication along the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway to support operations in Lysychansk and made incremental gains on June 23.[19] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that elements of the 1st Army Corps (the Armed Forces of the Donetsk People’s Republic) took control of Mykolaivka, a settlement along the T1302 highway about 15 km southwest of Lysychansk. Russian forces additionally continued assault operations in Berestove, a settlement adjacent to Mykolaivka along the T1302.[20] Head of Luhansk Oblast Administration Serhiy Haidai indicated the T1302 is currently inoperable, which suggests that Russian forces have successfully interdicted Ukrainian supply efforts into the Lysychansk area.[21] Russian forces conducted unsuccessful reconnaissance-in-force operations in Vershyna and unsuccessfully attempted to pin Ukrainian forces in Klynove, both southeast of Bakhmut.[22]
Russian forces continued to prepare for offensive operations towards Slovyansk from the southeast of Izyum but did not make any confirmed advances on June 23.[23] The Ukrainian General Staff stated that Russian forces moved two unspecified tank units to the Izyum area to strengthen their grouping northwest of Slovyansk.[24] Russian forces reportedly conducted unsuccessful assaults on Dolyna and Bohorodychne, both within 20 km northwest of Slovyansk.[25] Russian forces will likely continue efforts to drive down the E40 (also known as the M03) highway toward Slovyansk but are unlikely to be successful in directly assaulting the city as the main Russian effort remains focused on the capture of Severodonetsk-Lysychansk.



*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces north of Kharkiv City focused on preventing Ukrainian advances and fired on and around Kharkiv City on June 23.[26] The Ukrainian General Staff stated that Russian forces are trying to prevent Ukrainian forces in northern Kharkiv Oblast from threatening the rear of Russian operations heading towards Izyum-Slovyansk.[27] Russian forces conducted artillery strikes on Kharkiv City and settlements to the north and southeast.[28]



*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces continued to focus on defensive operations and amassed equipment along the Southern Axis on June 23. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces conducted a series of unsuccessful assaults near the Donetsk-Zaporizhia Oblast administrative border around Shevchenko, Vremivka, Novosilka, and Neskuchne.[29] Russian forces additionally concentrated artillery units around the Kherson-Mykolaiv Oblast border in response to recent Ukrainian counterattacks in the area.[30] Russian forces are additionally moving large columns of military equipment from Mariupol to Berdyansk and Polohy, likely to reinforce positions in Zaporizhia Oblast to defend against both Ukrainian partisan activity and counterattacks.[31] Head of the Ukrainian Main Intelligence Directorate Kirill Budanov stated that Russian forces are deploying a detachment consisting of air defense and rocket group units, a boat group, and special forces to Snake Island in response to recent Ukrainian strikes directly against Snake Island.[32] Russian forces continued to fire on Kherson, Mykolaiv, Dnipropetrovsk, and Zaporizhia Oblasts.[33]



*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian occupation authorities continued efforts to consolidate administrative control of occupied areas of Ukraine on June 23. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported on June 23 that mass “passportization” efforts have been so unsuccessful that Russian authorities are forcing inmates at the Kherson Northern Correctional Colony to obtain Russian citizenship to increase their numbers.[34] The Ukrainian Resistance Center additionally claimed that Russian officials plan to hold an annexation referendum in Zaporizhia and Kherson Oblasts on September 11, 2022, though ISW cannot independently confirm this claim - which Ukrainian sources have previously speculated on, as the date of existing Russian elections.[35] This deadline will likely further pressure Russian occupation authorities to create a façade of widespread public support for integration into Russia, through passportization measures or otherwise. Despite growing indications that Russian authorities hope to expedite the annexation process, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov stated that it is “out of the question” to abolish the border between Russia and Zaporizhia, suggesting continued discrepancies over the degree of integration of occupied territories being pursued by the Kremlin.[36]

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540102239393501184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540101574550343690

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540105007978143744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540152425721495553

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540155970420199425

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540161784690008064


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## ckf

The SC said:


> If NATO intervenes (most unlikely).. Russia will go nuclear for sure.. as NATO has more than 50 000 more IFVs and more than 17 000 more military airplanes than Russia.. This is no joke..


If it goes Nuclear, then we are all pfcked. No point talking about it. NATO's planes and IFVs are mainly US, US will more than happy to stay far away from the conflict. The logistics of bring all the weapons to Ukraine is also expensive and a logistic nightmare. Russia also has allies with lots of planes as well. So it will be interesting. I think Americans will drag EU into the conflict and it's EU's backyard on fire. America might sent some support but will let EU do bulk of the fighting.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540155403803164672

Reactions: Like Like:
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## AZMwi

*Ironically it's a ukrainian proverb lol*

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ckf said:


> If it goes Nuclear, then we are all pfcked. No point talking about it. NATO's planes and IFVs are mainly US, US will more than happy to stay far away from the conflict. The logistics of bring all the weapons to Ukraine is also expensive and a logistic nightmare. Russia also has allies with lots of planes as well. So it will be interesting. I think Americans will drag EU into the conflict and it's EU's backyard on fire. America might sent some support but will let EU do bulk of the fighting.



American gene pool by now is so weak they cannot even fight Taliban or Houthis let alone Russia. 








Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540155403803164672



TOS-2 is even more devastating.



TOS-2 Heavy Flamethrower System | Military-Today.com

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539959211513315330

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540166303318568960

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> @Oldman1 What did I say about British M270??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Britain to send long-range missiles to Ukraine after Russia hits Kyiv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msn.com


LOL!



jhungary said:


> @Oldman1 @Wood @Paul2
> 
> A friend of mine in Ukraine Armed Force just told me if MLRS/HIMARS were delivered to the Eastern Front, it will put Kupiansk within MLRS range from Pechenihy Reservoir (Which is their front line of the Kharkiv counter attack.)
> 
> A little work from map distant calculator say it is 67.5 km distant between Pechenihy Reservoir and Kupiansk. HIMARS M30 rocket have a range of 80km.
> 
> That would no doubt change the dynamic of the war on this front.


Just read on twitter that the U.S. will send more. Wasn't sure at first how many sending, it was about 12 total if Britain, German and U.S. all contributed at once, but that in my opinion was too few. Hopefully they will send more. And as I have said before, have Ukraine get their own version of something like HIMARS in the long run.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540092740351827970

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540068050342486017

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Oldman1 said:


> Just read on twitter that the U.S. will send more. Wasn't sure at first how many sending, it was about 12 total if Britain, German and U.S. all contributed at once, but that in my opinion was too few. Hopefully they will send more. And as I have said before, have Ukraine get their own version of something like HIMARS in the long run.



Artillery without air defense and fighter jets for protection is just a sitting duck for attack aircraft.





__





Mi-28N/NM attack choppers to defend Donbas children from Kiev regime export downgraded M777 and HIMARS artillery


These export downgraded M777 and HIMARS lack long range missiles such as Excalibur range 40 km and ATACMS range 300 km so they have range about 30 km with basic unguided howitzer rounds and rockets, however they usually fire from a distance of about 10 km or else it's too inaccurate and there is...



defence.pk

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## Hassan Al-Somal

TruthSeeker said:


> RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 23​Jun 23, 2022 - Press ISW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Download the PDF
> 
> *Karolina Hird, Kateryna Stepanenko, Mason Clark, and Grace Mappes
> June 23, 6:15 pm ET*​*Click here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
> Ongoing Belarusian mobilization exercises will continue in Gomel Oblast until July 1 but are unlikely to be in preparation for direct Belarusian involvement in the war in Ukraine. *The Belarusian Ministry of Defense announced on June 22 that the Belarusian Armed Forces will conduct a mobilization exercise with the military commissariats of Gomel Oblast to test the readiness of the military reserve from June 22 to July 1.[1] The Ukrainian State Border Guard Service warned on June 23 that Belarusian forces may conduct provocations along the border with Ukraine over the backdrop of these exercises, and Belarusian-Russian military cooperation has seemingly intensified.[2] Belarusian Defense Minister Viktor Khrenin met with Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu in Moscow on June 23 to discuss ongoing bilateral military agreements.[3] Belarusian social media users additionally reported that Russian planes transported at least 16 S-400 missiles and one Pantsir system to the Gomel airport on June 21 and 22.[4]
> While Belarus and Russia retain close military cooperation and the ongoing Belarusian exercises are likely intended in part to threaten Ukraine, Belarus remains unlikely to enter the war in Ukraine on behalf of Russia. As ISW has previously assessed, Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko likely cannot afford the domestic consequences of involving his limited military assets in a costly foreign war.[5] Unsupported Belarusian forces are additionally highly unlikely to be effective, and Russia lacks the reserves necessary to conduct another offensive toward Kyiv. These exercises are undoubtedly intended to posture and threaten Ukrainian border areas but are unlikely to preempt actual involvement in hostilities.
> *Russian forces have made substantial gains in the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area over the last several days and Ukrainian troops continue to suffer high casualties, but Ukrainian forces have fundamentally accomplished their objective in the battle by slowing down and degrading Russian forces. *Head of the Luhansk Oblast Administration Serhiy Haidai stated on June 23 that Ukrainian troops may have to retreat to avoid encirclement in Lysychansk, which indicates that Ukrainian authorities are setting conditions to prepare for the ultimate loss of both Severodonetsk and Lysychansk.[6] As ISW has previously assessed, however, the loss of Severodonetsk and Lysychansk will not represent a major turning point in the war.[7] Ukrainian troops have succeeded for weeks in drawing substantial quantities of Russian personnel, weapons, and equipment into the area and have likely degraded Russian forces' overall capabilities while preventing Russian forces from focusing on more advantageous axes of advance. Russian offensive operations will likely stall in the coming weeks, whether or not Russian forces capture the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area, likely granting Ukrainian forces the opportunity to launch prudent counteroffensives. The Kremlin’s ideological fixation on the capture of Severodonetsk, much like the earlier siege of Azovstal, will likely be to the ultimate detriment of Russian capabilities in future advances in Ukraine. The loss of Severodonetsk is a loss for Ukraine in the sense that _any _terrain captured by Russian forces is a loss—but the battle of Severodonetsk will not be a decisive Russian victory.
> *Key Takeaways*
> 
> *Belarusian forces are conducting mobilization exercises along the Ukrainian border but are unlikely to enter the war in Ukraine due to their low capabilities and the adverse domestic implications of military involvement on behalf of Russia.*
> *Russian forces have likely reached the southern outskirts of Lysychansk and are reinforcing their grouping around Severodonetsk to complete the capture of both Severodonetsk and Lysychansk. These gains remain unlikely to provide Russian forces with a decisive edge in further operations in Ukraine and have further degraded Russian capabilities.*
> *Russian forces are continuing efforts to encircle the Ukrainian grouping in Hirske and Zolote and are likely moving to take control of these settlements.*
> *Russian forces have likely successfully interdicted Ukrainian lines of communication along the T1302 highway and are using recent gains along the highway to reinforce assaults on Lysychansk.*
> *Russian forces amassed equipment and continued building defensive capabilities along the Southern Axis.*
> 
> 
> 
> *We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*
> 
> Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
> Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
> Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City;
> Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis;
> Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
> *Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
> Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
> Russian forces continued offensive operations to drive north toward Lysychansk and reached the southern outskirts of the city on June 23. Ukrainian sources confirmed on June 23 that Russian troops captured Rai-Oleksandrivka and Luskotivka on June 22, which will allow Russian forces to launch further advances toward Lysychansk without having to complete an opposed river crossing from within Severodonetsk.[8] Several Ukrainian and Russian sources reported fighting south of Lysychansk in Bila Hora, Myrna Dolyna, and Vovchoyarivka, all within 5 km of Lysychansk.[9] The UK Ministry of Defense confirmed that Russian forces have advanced to within 5 km of southern Lysychansk.[10] Russian Telegram channel Rybar claimed that Russian forces have made it as far as the southern outskirts of Lysychansk and are fighting within the industrial zone of the city, but ISW cannot confirm this claim.[11] Russian forces have also likely restricted Ukrainian access to lines of communication into Lysychansk and can shell large areas of both the Siversk-Lysychansk and Bakhmut-Lysychansk highways.[12]
> 
> 
> 
> Russian forces are reinforcing their grouping around Severodonetsk in order to complete the capture of the city. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that elements of the 2nd Army Corps (the Armed Forces of the Luhansk People’s Republic) and Rosgvardia (Russian National Guard) are fighting to establish full control of Severodonetsk.[13] Rosgvardia is notably not intended to be a frontline combat force, and their involvement in direct fights for control of contested territory indicates that Russian troops in the Severodonetsk area are severely degraded and relying on secondary forces to support operations. The BBC’s Russian service previously reported on June 21 that Rosgvardia and Wagner Group personnel are providing Russia’s main assault force in Severodonetsk, likely due to a lack of dedicated infantry in frontline Russian units.[14] Ukrainian parliamentarian and military expert Dmytro Snyegerev stated that Russian forces are moving modern S-300V4 anti-aircraft air defense missile systems to the Severodonetsk area in order to protect their forces from the Ukrainian air force and drones.[15] Russian forces reportedly moved one battalion tactical group (BTG) from the Central Military District to Novotoshivske, south of the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area, likely in support of operations to complete the capture of the rest of Luhansk Oblast.[16]
> Russian forces have likely moved to complete the encirclement of Ukrainian troops in Zolote and Hirske but have not yet taken full control of both settlements.[17] Russian sources claimed that Russian troops are clearing Zolote, Hirske, and the surrounding areas, and geolocated combat footage from June 23 showed Russian troops entering Hirske itself from the east.[18] Neither official Ukrainian nor Russian sources have confirmed the capture of Zolote and Hirske, however, and Russian forces are likely still fighting to establish total control of this area.
> Russian forces continued efforts to interdict Ukrainian lines of communication along the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway to support operations in Lysychansk and made incremental gains on June 23.[19] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that elements of the 1st Army Corps (the Armed Forces of the Donetsk People’s Republic) took control of Mykolaivka, a settlement along the T1302 highway about 15 km southwest of Lysychansk. Russian forces additionally continued assault operations in Berestove, a settlement adjacent to Mykolaivka along the T1302.[20] Head of Luhansk Oblast Administration Serhiy Haidai indicated the T1302 is currently inoperable, which suggests that Russian forces have successfully interdicted Ukrainian supply efforts into the Lysychansk area.[21] Russian forces conducted unsuccessful reconnaissance-in-force operations in Vershyna and unsuccessfully attempted to pin Ukrainian forces in Klynove, both southeast of Bakhmut.[22]
> Russian forces continued to prepare for offensive operations towards Slovyansk from the southeast of Izyum but did not make any confirmed advances on June 23.[23] The Ukrainian General Staff stated that Russian forces moved two unspecified tank units to the Izyum area to strengthen their grouping northwest of Slovyansk.[24] Russian forces reportedly conducted unsuccessful assaults on Dolyna and Bohorodychne, both within 20 km northwest of Slovyansk.[25] Russian forces will likely continue efforts to drive down the E40 (also known as the M03) highway toward Slovyansk but are unlikely to be successful in directly assaulting the city as the main Russian effort remains focused on the capture of Severodonetsk-Lysychansk.
> 
> 
> 
> *Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
> Russian forces north of Kharkiv City focused on preventing Ukrainian advances and fired on and around Kharkiv City on June 23.[26] The Ukrainian General Staff stated that Russian forces are trying to prevent Ukrainian forces in northern Kharkiv Oblast from threatening the rear of Russian operations heading towards Izyum-Slovyansk.[27] Russian forces conducted artillery strikes on Kharkiv City and settlements to the north and southeast.[28]
> 
> 
> 
> *Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
> Russian forces continued to focus on defensive operations and amassed equipment along the Southern Axis on June 23. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces conducted a series of unsuccessful assaults near the Donetsk-Zaporizhia Oblast administrative border around Shevchenko, Vremivka, Novosilka, and Neskuchne.[29] Russian forces additionally concentrated artillery units around the Kherson-Mykolaiv Oblast border in response to recent Ukrainian counterattacks in the area.[30] Russian forces are additionally moving large columns of military equipment from Mariupol to Berdyansk and Polohy, likely to reinforce positions in Zaporizhia Oblast to defend against both Ukrainian partisan activity and counterattacks.[31] Head of the Ukrainian Main Intelligence Directorate Kirill Budanov stated that Russian forces are deploying a detachment consisting of air defense and rocket group units, a boat group, and special forces to Snake Island in response to recent Ukrainian strikes directly against Snake Island.[32] Russian forces continued to fire on Kherson, Mykolaiv, Dnipropetrovsk, and Zaporizhia Oblasts.[33]
> 
> 
> 
> *Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
> Russian occupation authorities continued efforts to consolidate administrative control of occupied areas of Ukraine on June 23. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported on June 23 that mass “passportization” efforts have been so unsuccessful that Russian authorities are forcing inmates at the Kherson Northern Correctional Colony to obtain Russian citizenship to increase their numbers.[34] The Ukrainian Resistance Center additionally claimed that Russian officials plan to hold an annexation referendum in Zaporizhia and Kherson Oblasts on September 11, 2022, though ISW cannot independently confirm this claim - which Ukrainian sources have previously speculated on, as the date of existing Russian elections.[35] This deadline will likely further pressure Russian occupation authorities to create a façade of widespread public support for integration into Russia, through passportization measures or otherwise. Despite growing indications that Russian authorities hope to expedite the annexation process, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov stated that it is “out of the question” to abolish the border between Russia and Zaporizhia, suggesting continued discrepancies over the degree of integration of occupied territories being pursued by the Kremlin.[36]




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540068050342486017

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## Oldman1

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Artillery without air defense and fighter jets for protection is just a sitting duck for attack aircraft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mi-28N/NM attack choppers to defend Donbas children from Kiev regime export downgraded M777 and HIMARS artillery
> 
> 
> These export downgraded M777 and HIMARS lack long range missiles such as Excalibur range 40 km and ATACMS range 300 km so they have range about 30 km with basic unguided howitzer rounds and rockets, however they usually fire from a distance of about 10 km or else it's too inaccurate and there is...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk


Yes I'm aware of that, something I pointed out when needing air defense and aircraft. I mentioned about having Ukraine using western aircraft or have a no fly zone as extreme measure.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Oldman1 said:


> Yes I'm aware of that, something I pointed out when needing air defense and aircraft. I mentioned about having Ukraine using western aircraft or have a no fly zone as extreme measure.



American gene pool has decayed to the point they can't even fight Taliban or Qaeda or Houthis or ISIS let alone Russia.

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## Oldman1

Tai Hai Chen said:


> American gene pool has decayed to the point they can't even fight Taliban or Qaeda or Houthis or ISIS let alone Russia.


Russia couldn't even handle the Afghans themselves during the 1980s. And look at where they at now in Ukraine. Lost more in 3 months compared to 10 years in Afghanistan.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Oldman1 said:


> Russia couldn't even handle the Afghans themselves during the 1980s. And look at where they at now in Ukraine. Lost more in 3 months compared to 10 years in Afghanistan.



True. Russia had no business being in Afghanistan. Russians had low morale in Afghanistan and didn't want to fight there. In contrast, Donbas is called the heart of Russia. So naturally Russians have a very high morale fighting to retake Donbas from Ukraine. Russians would fight tooth and nail for every inch of Donbas and are willing to sacrifice 10 million men if need be to retake Donbas from Ukraine. Russia can afford to lose 10 million men. But Ukraine cannot afford to lose 10 million men because the entire population of Ukraine is only 36 million.









DIRECT TRANSLATION: 'Donbas, the Heart of Russia'


A Commentator Close to Putin Writes: Unitary Ukraine is Finished A prominent Russian business magazine, Ekspert, publishes a lead article this week by two




www.atlanticcouncil.org

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## Oldman1

Tai Hai Chen said:


> True. Russia had no business being in Afghanistan. Russians had low morale in Afghanistan and didn't want to fight there. In contrast, Donbas is called the heart of Russia. So naturally Russians have a very high morale fighting to retake Donbas from Ukraine. Russians would fight tooth and nail for every inch of Donbas and are willing to sacrifice 10 million men if need be to retake Donbas from Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DIRECT TRANSLATION: 'Donbas, the Heart of Russia'
> 
> 
> A Commentator Close to Putin Writes: Unitary Ukraine is Finished A prominent Russian business magazine, Ekspert, publishes a lead article this week by two
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.atlanticcouncil.org


Sure.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540108277215797248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540107326400626690

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540107220104388610

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540106707585605634


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## Oldman1

@jhungary 
The Ukrainians definitely need more shoot and scoot systems in terms of artillery and mortars and rockets these days. 









Should get them GPS guided rocket versions. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539569465087692800


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## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540108277215797248
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540107326400626690
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540107220104388610
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540106707585605634


What those people don’t understand. Ukraine is now a candidate. Ukraine now has in its hands to decide, the time, the pace, the speed, how quick it can be in the EU. The faster Ukraine adopts EU rules the quicker Ukraine is in the EU.


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> @jhungary
> The Ukrainians definitely need more shoot and scoot systems in terms of artillery and mortars and rockets these days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Should get them GPS guided rocket versions.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539569465087692800


At this stage, both drone and artillery system is important. 

They needed those cheap drone that you can spot Russian Artillery so you can do effective COUNTBAT. Or have them waste their ammo and fire at them costing them millions dollars. They need either or both cheap and EW drone.

But then we need to do them one step at a time, you need to have enough MLRS and SPG to make those component works, 10 system is really not too much, you need at least 60 now, and another 60 to replace in 2 or 3 months......

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> At this stage, both drone and artillery system is important.
> 
> They needed those cheap drone that you can spot Russian Artillery so you can do effective COUNTBAT. Or have them waste their ammo and fire at them costing them millions dollars. They need either or both cheap and EW drone.
> 
> But then we need to do them one step at a time, you need to have enough MLRS and SPG to make those component works, 10 system is really not too much, you need at least 60 now, and another 60 to replace in 2 or 3 months......


Definitely need cheap drones, but drones with long range to see far behind enemy lines where their supply depots are at along with other strategic or tactical values including Russian artillery. Saw on twitter they used a Chinese drone that cost 10k for kamikaze attack on a refinery like the Houthis did in Saudi Arabia. Pretty crazy!


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Definitely need cheap drones, but drones with long range to see far behind enemy lines where their supply depots are at along with other strategic or tactical values including Russian artillery. Saw on twitter they used a Chinese drone that cost 10k for kamikaze attack on a refinery like the Houthis did in Saudi Arabia. Pretty crazy!


Well, there are two ways you can go.

Either source specific purpose drone and do it the way you want to do, or go get whatever you have in your hands and work it out how you can get the max out of these drone.

One way or another, this war is going to rewrite the OP for drone warfare, and I am not talking the big guy like Predator or Reaper but smaller stuff like how you can fit DJI with a grenade or how loitering munition being used in expanded and warfare. Drone will no longer be know as a tool for ISTAR, but instead it will incorporate to just about any or every military unit and adapted into those role by those unit that use them.

Mark my word, there are going to be a Blank-Purpose Drone where you can build it to suit your need by the people who use them on the field, like lego.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Well, there are two ways you can go.
> 
> Either source specific purpose drone and do it the way you want to do, or go get whatever you have in your hands and work it out how you can get the max out of these drone.
> 
> One way or another, this war is going to rewrite the OP for drone warfare, and I am not talking the big guy like Predator or Reaper but smaller stuff like how you can fit DJI with a grenade or how loitering munition being used in expanded and warfare. Drone will no longer be know as a tool for ISTAR, but instead it will incorporate to just about any or every military unit and adapted into those role by those unit that use them.
> 
> Mark my word, there are going to be a Blank-Purpose Drone where you can build it to suit your need by the people who use them on the field, like lego.







Heavy cargo drone. Useful for less risky supply, something we learn in Mariupol when they sent in helos to resupply and bring back the wounded. 






The U.S. Army should have a medium stealth version of the TB2 like drone with long range and SATCOM capabilities for sure along with loitering munition or long range weaponry like SPIKE ER or something that has 50km range at least. Right now its Predator size drones. The smaller drones usually for recon but no attack capability used by the Army.


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Heavy cargo drone. Useful for less risky supply, something we learn in Mariupol when they sent in helos to resupply and bring back the wounded.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The U.S. Army should have a medium stealth version of the TB2 like drone with long range and SATCOM capabilities for sure along with loitering munition or long range weaponry like SPIKE ER or something that has 50km range at least. Right now its Predator size drones. The smaller drones usually for recon but no attack capability used by the Army.


I would say we need a full spectrum of drone, not just the big guys

The Army should consider smaller and more undetectable drone and try to max out their capability. 

But for the big drone, I would like them to keep working on the NLOS rocket drone that use Spike a while ago, basically it's a drone with a Spike NLOS system onboard and you can drone it just anywhere to provide fire support, Not sure what become of those drone now.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> I would say we need a full spectrum of drone, not just the big guys
> 
> The Army should consider smaller and more undetectable drone and try to max out their capability.
> 
> But for the big drone, I would like them to keep working on the NLOS rocket drone that use Spike a while ago, basically it's a drone with a Spike NLOS system onboard and you can drone it just anywhere to provide fire support, Not sure what become of those drone now.

















__





US Army to Test Interactive Drone Swarm Over Utah – UAS VISION







www.uasvision.com









@jhungary 








Rafael unveils new Spike NLOS missile version with in-flight control transfer - Breaking Defense


The new version of the Spike NLOS has a target production date of 2023, Rafael officials said.




breakingdefense.com




Rafael unveils new Spike NLOS missile version with in-flight control transfer​The new version of the Spike NLOS has a target production date of 2023, Rafael officials said.​
TEL AVIV: Israeli firm Rafael has unveiled a new version of its Spike missile, and has teamed with Lockheed Martin to market the system in the US.

The two firms plan to demonstrate the weapon for US forces in early 2023, Rafael officials claimed June 9, while pledging that production would also begin early in the next calendar year.

Branded as the Spike Non-Line-Of-Sight missile system (NLOS) 6th generation, Rafael officials told reporters at an in-person briefing that the new system comes with a number of new features, starting with the fact it can be launched in salvor of up to four missiles at once, with flexible control of the weapons.


“Each of the missiles can be directed in the final phase of its trajectory to hit different targets in the area,” Zvi Marmor, head of the precision tactical weapon systems division in Rafael, said. “This capability crates an immediate effect.”



"Rafael claims the weapon now ranges up to 50 km when launched from a helicopter and up to 32 km from land and naval platforms. When asked if the new version can be carried by fixed-wing aircraft or UAV, the Rafael official said that a strategic UAV like the Heron–TP made by Israel aerospace industries can carry the missile."


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## sammuel

jhungary said:


> At this stage, both drone and artillery system is important.
> 
> They needed those cheap drone that you can spot Russian Artillery so you can do effective COUNTBAT. Or have them waste their ammo and fire at them costing them millions dollars. They need either or both cheap and EW drone.
> 
> But then we need to do them one step at a time, you need to have enough MLRS and SPG to make those component works, 10 system is really not too much, you need at least 60 now, and another 60 to replace in 2 or 3 months......



It seems that with MLRS it is more a question of the number of rockets , than the number of units.

As for artillery , where it is more of a number games. The only system that can be transferred to Ukraine in large enough numbers , are the m109 howitzers .

Take the Caesar artillery for example , great system . but France has less than 100 of those. You cant expect a country to give up all it's artillery arsenal.

US has almost 1000 m109 and can easily transfer 100 of them. Ukraine already has between 40-60 m109 . Another 100 would mean that Ukraine would finely have one main artillery system.

I understand from what you wrote , that it takes a while to learn an operate the m109 , but after looking at all the available artillery systems out there , i just don't see another way to go.

~
~


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## kingQamaR

Oldman1 said:


> Yes I'm aware of that, something I pointed out when needing air defense and aircraft. I mentioned about having Ukraine using western aircraft or have a no fly zone as extreme measure.



. How many innocent people do you think will die if this spills out into a full on war with Russia? Suppose we threaten them and they don't back down? Then that's our planes against theirs, and their anti aircraft on the ground and on ships start shooting our planes down. So we have to bomb that and their radar detection and airfields inside Russia. Then they start bombing nearby nato counties in retaliation. And that's potentially just the beginning who knows what happens then. It's easy watching and doing nothing but sometimes doing something makes things a hell of a lot worse


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## Oldman1

sammuel said:


> It seems that with MLRS it is more a question pf the number of rockets than the number of units.
> 
> As for artillery , where it is more of a number games , the only system that can be transferred to Ukraine in large enough numbers , are the m109 howitzer .
> 
> Take the Caesar artillery for example , great system . but France has less than 100 of those. You cant expect a country to give up all it's artillery arsenal.
> 
> US has almost 1000 m109 and can easily transfer 100 of them. Ukraine already has between 40-60 m109 . another 100 would mean that Ukraine would finely have one main artillery system.
> 
> ~


Jhungary and I talked about how Poland or some other country nearby could help Ukraine build their own version of the Caesar artillery the Bohdona which they have a prototype of it. But yeah right now they U.S. should give about a 100 M109s. Think we have many in storage at least. M198s would help but only towed but better than nothing with need for more artillery systems. Think Ukraine were building their own HIMARS version or something but think it was a prototype but I think this is a Ukrainian version of the Uragan. Could be able to fire GPS guided maybe. Still prefer it had pods for quick reload. 












kingQamaR said:


> . How many innocent people do you think will die if this spills out into a full on war with Russia? Suppose we threaten them and they don't back down? Then that's our planes against theirs, and their anti aircraft on the ground and on ships start shooting our planes down. So we have to bomb that and their radar detection and airfields inside Russia. Then they start bombing nearby nato counties in retaliation. And that's potentially just the beginning who knows what happens then. It's easy watching and doing nothing but sometimes doing something makes things a hell of a lot worse


Russia just threaten Lithuania with vague threats because of refusing to allow supplies through Kaliningrad, IMO, they aren't going to do crap. They keep screaming about using nukes for many months with all the military support provided. Its just brinkmanship. Putin knows it. Will NATO intervene directly to help Ukraine? No. Also I was mentioning what if scenario but like I said it was too extreme. What I think could help Ukraine but not push to full blown war is providing F-16s to Ukraine to defend its own airspace without the need for NATO to intervene.

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## Oldman1

@sammuel 
Ukrainian Bureviy​




__





Analysis: Discover new Ukrainian Bureviy 220mm rocket launcher used to fight Russian troops | Ukraine - Russia conflict war 2022 | analysis focus army defence military industry army


Analysis: Discover combat capabilities of new Ukrainian Bureviy 220mm MLRS Multiple Launch Rocket System used to fight Russian troops




www.armyrecognition.com


















Armed Forces of Ukraine Use New "Bureviy" MLRS at the Front Line | Defense Express


On the Internet was spread the video with the Newest Ukrainian "Bureviy" MLRS




en.defence-ua.com









The Bureviy 220mm MLRS is equipped with a digital fire control system, including an information exchange system on the battlefield. This allows the Bureviy to be included in a single reconnaissance and strike circuit, when information from reconnaissance vehicles, such as UAVs, is transmitted online to the means of destruction. This minimizes the time from target detection to destruction in minutes.

The rockets launched by the BM-27 MLRS can reach a firing range from 35 to 40 km, while the Bureviy has a firing range from 35 to 65 km. The Bureviy can fire all the 220mm rockets including 9M27F HE-Frag (High Explosive Fragmentation), and the unguided rockets 9M27K loaded with fragmentation sub-munitions, 9M59, and 9M27K2.

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## khansaheeb

Frustration grows in Ukraine as casualties spike and Russia takes more territory


“The reality is different from the official comments,” said Luiza Dorner, whose husband is fighting in the Donbas. “Every day has a high price.”




www.nbcnews.com





Frustration grows in Ukraine as casualties spike and Russia takes more territory​“The reality is different from the official comments,” said Luiza Dorner, whose husband is fighting in the Donbas. “Every day has a high price.”

YOUR VIDEO BEGINS IN 00:20
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SAVECreate your free profile or log in to save this article
June 23, 2022, 2:10 AM PDT
By Lauren Egan
KYIV, Ukraine — Russia’s invasion in February prompted a wave of public support for the government of President Volodymyr Zelenskyy as millions of Ukrainians raced to help defend their homeland. Four months later — amid Russian advances and spiking casualties — anger and frustration over the handling of the war is swelling.
In interviews with Ukrainians who have family members fighting the invaders, many said they were upset with the military leadership for deploying inexperienced people to the front lines, and at times sending them into battle without as much as a medical or a psychological examination.

“I am ready to protest,” said Viktoriia Bilan-Rashchuk, 43, of Kyiv, whose husband, Volodymyr, a theater actor with no previous military experience, is fighting on the eastern front line in Sievierodonetsk. Last month, she said, she raised money to send his unit protective headphones — standard military equipment used to prevent hearing loss for soldiers firing off rocket systems.
“No one even taught him how to shoot.”
OLENA ZHABYAK-SHEREMET
“The government isn’t doing enough to support them. The longer this goes on, the more people will become upset,” Bilan-Rashchuk said in Ukrainian, speaking through a translator.
Ukraine’s Defense Ministry did not respond to a request for comment. 
Since Russia invaded in February, thousands of Ukrainians with no military background have volunteered to fight. To boost its war efforts, the Ukrainian government has also banned men ages 18 to 60 from leaving the country in case it needs to start a draft. In May, Zelenskyy said the country’s military had 700,000 service members, including women.
Through a relentless campaign of appearances, interviews and statements, Zelenskyy has fought to keep morale high among troops and the general public and plead the country’s case to the international community. But Russian artillery attacks have intensified in the east in recent months, pushing the Ukrainian military death toll to between 100 and 200 soldiers a day in combat, with another 500 injured every day, according to Ukrainian officials, the BBC reported earlier this month.



A soldier rests at a checkpoint in Sievierodonetsk in eastern Ukraine, where fighting has been especially fierce.Yasuyoshi Chiba / AFP via Getty Images
In his daily address June 14, Zelenskyy called the losses “painful” but said Ukrainians “have to hold on.”
Despite the high death toll, Ukrainian officials have maintained that troops are well taken care of, with sufficient training, food, equipment and rest.
But as the war grinds on, what makes some Ukrainians especially angry is the lack of basic military equipment for those on the front lines. Some military families have been forced to organize donation drives to send medical supplies and military equipment to the front lines.
Svitlana Lukianenko, whose husband worked in information technology before the war but is now fighting near Sievierodonetsk, worries the Ukrainian military is not replacing the dead and injured soldiers fast enough, leaving her husband at greater risk with each passing day.
“The government needs to mobilize more people, but they also need to train them. There’s not enough training, and it’s a big problem,” she said. “That’s why we have such a high death toll.”
“We are angry for them,” Lukianenko added.
Zelenskyy has also dismissed reports that some front-line troops had poor protective equipment. 
“The reports I receive are significantly different from what is discussed by society,” he said in the same address.
“Today, everyone in the areas of hostilities must have everything they need to protect themselves,” he said. “The state provides such supplies.”
Get the Morning Rundown
Get a head start on the morning's top stories.
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Luiza Dorner, 25, of Kyiv, whose husband is fighting in the Donbas region, said statements from Zelenskyy and other government officials have started to ring hollow. When she talks to her husband on the phone, she said, she can hear the fear and exhaustion in his voice.
by Taboola
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Mourners cry during a funeral for two Ukrainian soldiers who died in Kharkiv. Russian artillery attacks have intensified in the country's east, pushing the Ukrainian military death toll to between 100 and 200 soldiers a day in combat, according to an aide to the president.Metin Atkas / Anadolu Agency via Getty Images

“The reality is different from the official comments,” she said. “Every day has a high price.” 
Recommended​WORLDGirl who was raped gets abortion after initially being blocked, Brazilian prosecutors say​


U.S. NEWSAmazon’s Alexa may soon mimic voices, including of dead relatives​Igor Khort, who is in charge of training for the Territorial Defense Force, the volunteer unit of the Ukrainian army, said they only have the capacity to train roughly 120 people each week in Kyiv, the capital and largest city. New soldiers get just five days of training before being sent to the battlefield, he said.

Retired U.S. Marine Col. Mark Cancian, a senior adviser at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, called five days of training “woefully inadequate.”
“The Ukrainians are going to have to come up with something. This is a marathon and not a sprint,” he said. For comparison, he said, Marines receive roughly 20 weeks of training before being sent into combat.
When asked whether it was responsible to send soldiers to the front lines without more training and preparation, Khort said, “They signed up themselves.” 
“And as John F. Kennedy said in his inaugural speech, ‘Don’t ask what the country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.’ And so they are doing the impossible for their country,” he added.
While softening public support for the government’s war response might be primarily a political problem for Zelenskyy for now, Cancian said it could impact the direction of the war if changes are not made.
“In the near term, it’s a political problem. If they do nothing about it, it will become a military problem,” he said. “Ultimately what matters is whether units are starting to crack — whether you’re seeing units that are withdrawing or refusing to fight, or if you start to see a lot of desertions.”



Soldiers sit atop a tank in the Donetsk region. To boost its war efforts, the government has banned men ages 18 to 60 from leaving the country in case it needs to start a draft.Efrem Lukatsky / AP
The frustration with the government is particularly acute in the west, where many Ukrainians volunteered to serve in the relative safety of cities like Lviv. Some women have said their husbands joined the Territorial Defense Force with the expectation that they would serve in the district where they live, rather than on the front lines in the east.
Olena Zhabyak-Sheremet, 52, said her husband joined the force when the war started under the impression he would serve in the Lviv area working at checkpoints. But at the beginning of April, he was told to pack his bag to head east. If he refused, she said, commanders threatened to label him a deserter. She has not seen him since.
“No one even taught him how to shoot,” she said. “Out of the blue, he was sent into the thick of it.”
Zhabyak-Sheremet and other women in Lviv have written letters to government and military officials demanding answers as to why their loved ones were forced to leave their home districts, but she said they have not received responses.
She said the high death toll did not surprise her.
“They can’t push back the enemy because they have no training,” Zhabyak-Sheremet said. “And the result is heavy losses.”
*CORRECTION* (June 23, 2022, 12:35 p.m. ET): A previous version of this article misspelled the first name of Ukraine’s president. He is Volodymyr Zelenskyy, not Vlodymyr.



Lauren Egan
Lauren Egan is a White House reporter for NBC News based in Washington.

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## ZeGerman

khansaheeb said:


> Frustration grows in Ukraine as casualties spike and Russia takes more territory
> 
> 
> “The reality is different from the official comments,” said Luiza Dorner, whose husband is fighting in the Donbas. “Every day has a high price.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Frustration grows in Ukraine as casualties spike and Russia takes more territory​“The reality is different from the official comments,” said Luiza Dorner, whose husband is fighting in the Donbas. “Every day has a high price.”
> 
> YOUR VIDEO BEGINS IN 00:20
> TAP TO UNMUTE
> 
> 
> 
> Link copied
> 
> SAVECreate your free profile or log in to save this article
> June 23, 2022, 2:10 AM PDT
> By Lauren Egan
> KYIV, Ukraine — Russia’s invasion in February prompted a wave of public support for the government of President Volodymyr Zelenskyy as millions of Ukrainians raced to help defend their homeland. Four months later — amid Russian advances and spiking casualties — anger and frustration over the handling of the war is swelling.
> In interviews with Ukrainians who have family members fighting the invaders, many said they were upset with the military leadership for deploying inexperienced people to the front lines, and at times sending them into battle without as much as a medical or a psychological examination.
> 
> “I am ready to protest,” said Viktoriia Bilan-Rashchuk, 43, of Kyiv, whose husband, Volodymyr, a theater actor with no previous military experience, is fighting on the eastern front line in Sievierodonetsk. Last month, she said, she raised money to send his unit protective headphones — standard military equipment used to prevent hearing loss for soldiers firing off rocket systems.
> “No one even taught him how to shoot.”
> OLENA ZHABYAK-SHEREMET
> “The government isn’t doing enough to support them. The longer this goes on, the more people will become upset,” Bilan-Rashchuk said in Ukrainian, speaking through a translator.
> Ukraine’s Defense Ministry did not respond to a request for comment.
> Since Russia invaded in February, thousands of Ukrainians with no military background have volunteered to fight. To boost its war efforts, the Ukrainian government has also banned men ages 18 to 60 from leaving the country in case it needs to start a draft. In May, Zelenskyy said the country’s military had 700,000 service members, including women.
> Through a relentless campaign of appearances, interviews and statements, Zelenskyy has fought to keep morale high among troops and the general public and plead the country’s case to the international community. But Russian artillery attacks have intensified in the east in recent months, pushing the Ukrainian military death toll to between 100 and 200 soldiers a day in combat, with another 500 injured every day, according to Ukrainian officials, the BBC reported earlier this month.
> 
> 
> 
> A soldier rests at a checkpoint in Sievierodonetsk in eastern Ukraine, where fighting has been especially fierce.Yasuyoshi Chiba / AFP via Getty Images
> In his daily address June 14, Zelenskyy called the losses “painful” but said Ukrainians “have to hold on.”
> Despite the high death toll, Ukrainian officials have maintained that troops are well taken care of, with sufficient training, food, equipment and rest.
> But as the war grinds on, what makes some Ukrainians especially angry is the lack of basic military equipment for those on the front lines. Some military families have been forced to organize donation drives to send medical supplies and military equipment to the front lines.
> Svitlana Lukianenko, whose husband worked in information technology before the war but is now fighting near Sievierodonetsk, worries the Ukrainian military is not replacing the dead and injured soldiers fast enough, leaving her husband at greater risk with each passing day.
> “The government needs to mobilize more people, but they also need to train them. There’s not enough training, and it’s a big problem,” she said. “That’s why we have such a high death toll.”
> “We are angry for them,” Lukianenko added.
> Zelenskyy has also dismissed reports that some front-line troops had poor protective equipment.
> “The reports I receive are significantly different from what is discussed by society,” he said in the same address.
> “Today, everyone in the areas of hostilities must have everything they need to protect themselves,” he said. “The state provides such supplies.”
> Get the Morning Rundown
> Get a head start on the morning's top stories.
> SIGN UP
> THIS SITE IS PROTECTED BY RECAPTCHA PRIVACY POLICY | TERMS OF SERVICE
> 
> Luiza Dorner, 25, of Kyiv, whose husband is fighting in the Donbas region, said statements from Zelenskyy and other government officials have started to ring hollow. When she talks to her husband on the phone, she said, she can hear the fear and exhaustion in his voice.
> by Taboola
> Sponsored Stories
> https://bestsearches.net/index.php?...T2LgHGZbjQ9F1o6ICVbGvw81yfSCJ01gojpnvsM2pnK5n
> FLIP PHONES FOR SENIORSFlip Phones Of 2022
> 
> 
> 
> https://mysearches.net/index.php?rg...LgHGZbjQ9F1o6ICVbGvw81yfSCjxUIoxLCEmP6pxb7hAQ
> NEW CARS | SEARCH ADSKiller Hybrids and EVs Are Finally Here: See 2022's Thrilling New Models
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mourners cry during a funeral for two Ukrainian soldiers who died in Kharkiv. Russian artillery attacks have intensified in the country's east, pushing the Ukrainian military death toll to between 100 and 200 soldiers a day in combat, according to an aide to the president.Metin Atkas / Anadolu Agency via Getty Images
> 
> “The reality is different from the official comments,” she said. “Every day has a high price.”
> Recommended​WORLDGirl who was raped gets abortion after initially being blocked, Brazilian prosecutors say​
> 
> 
> U.S. NEWSAmazon’s Alexa may soon mimic voices, including of dead relatives​Igor Khort, who is in charge of training for the Territorial Defense Force, the volunteer unit of the Ukrainian army, said they only have the capacity to train roughly 120 people each week in Kyiv, the capital and largest city. New soldiers get just five days of training before being sent to the battlefield, he said.
> 
> Retired U.S. Marine Col. Mark Cancian, a senior adviser at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, called five days of training “woefully inadequate.”
> “The Ukrainians are going to have to come up with something. This is a marathon and not a sprint,” he said. For comparison, he said, Marines receive roughly 20 weeks of training before being sent into combat.
> When asked whether it was responsible to send soldiers to the front lines without more training and preparation, Khort said, “They signed up themselves.”
> “And as John F. Kennedy said in his inaugural speech, ‘Don’t ask what the country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.’ And so they are doing the impossible for their country,” he added.
> While softening public support for the government’s war response might be primarily a political problem for Zelenskyy for now, Cancian said it could impact the direction of the war if changes are not made.
> “In the near term, it’s a political problem. If they do nothing about it, it will become a military problem,” he said. “Ultimately what matters is whether units are starting to crack — whether you’re seeing units that are withdrawing or refusing to fight, or if you start to see a lot of desertions.”
> 
> 
> 
> Soldiers sit atop a tank in the Donetsk region. To boost its war efforts, the government has banned men ages 18 to 60 from leaving the country in case it needs to start a draft.Efrem Lukatsky / AP
> The frustration with the government is particularly acute in the west, where many Ukrainians volunteered to serve in the relative safety of cities like Lviv. Some women have said their husbands joined the Territorial Defense Force with the expectation that they would serve in the district where they live, rather than on the front lines in the east.
> Olena Zhabyak-Sheremet, 52, said her husband joined the force when the war started under the impression he would serve in the Lviv area working at checkpoints. But at the beginning of April, he was told to pack his bag to head east. If he refused, she said, commanders threatened to label him a deserter. She has not seen him since.
> “No one even taught him how to shoot,” she said. “Out of the blue, he was sent into the thick of it.”
> Zhabyak-Sheremet and other women in Lviv have written letters to government and military officials demanding answers as to why their loved ones were forced to leave their home districts, but she said they have not received responses.
> She said the high death toll did not surprise her.
> “They can’t push back the enemy because they have no training,” Zhabyak-Sheremet said. “And the result is heavy losses.”
> *CORRECTION* (June 23, 2022, 12:35 p.m. ET): A previous version of this article misspelled the first name of Ukraine’s president. He is Volodymyr Zelenskyy, not Vlodymyr.
> 
> 
> 
> Lauren Egan
> Lauren Egan is a White House reporter for NBC News based in Washington.


Yeah what i do not understand is why ukraine is funneling so many territorial defence forces into donbass while seemingly keeping a lot of their better trained/experienced troops in reserve. 

Or taking a “no step back” approach around severodonetsk. 
Unless they really are having a larger counter-offensive planned in august.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540227912825245697

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540244787663618051

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540261355822977024


Oldman1 said:


> @sammuel
> Ukrainian Bureviy​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
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> 
> 
> 
> Analysis: Discover new Ukrainian Bureviy 220mm rocket launcher used to fight Russian troops | Ukraine - Russia conflict war 2022 | analysis focus army defence military industry army
> 
> 
> Analysis: Discover combat capabilities of new Ukrainian Bureviy 220mm MLRS Multiple Launch Rocket System used to fight Russian troops
> 
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> 
> www.armyrecognition.com
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> Armed Forces of Ukraine Use New "Bureviy" MLRS at the Front Line | Defense Express
> 
> 
> On the Internet was spread the video with the Newest Ukrainian "Bureviy" MLRS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.defence-ua.com
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Bureviy 220mm MLRS is equipped with a digital fire control system, including an information exchange system on the battlefield. This allows the Bureviy to be included in a single reconnaissance and strike circuit, when information from reconnaissance vehicles, such as UAVs, is transmitted online to the means of destruction. This minimizes the time from target detection to destruction in minutes.
> 
> The rockets launched by the BM-27 MLRS can reach a firing range from 35 to 40 km, while the Bureviy has a firing range from 35 to 65 km. The Bureviy can fire all the 220mm rockets including 9M27F HE-Frag (High Explosive Fragmentation), and the unguided rockets 9M27K loaded with fragmentation sub-munitions, 9M59, and 9M27K2.



Russia cruise missiled all of Ukraine's military hardware factories.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540311226802208775

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540310755127529472


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> Yeah what i do not understand is why ukraine is funneling so many territorial defence forces into donbass while seemingly keeping a lot of their better trained/experienced troops in reserve.
> 
> Or taking a “no step back” approach around severodonetsk.
> Unless they really are having a larger counter-offensive planned in august.



Territorial Defense is the Kiev regime's counterpart of Assad's National Defense Force NDF. They are poorly trained and poorly equipped.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540256406519136257

Apparently, the first documented footage of HIMARS in Ukraine. Near Kherson


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540256406519136257
> 
> Apparently, the first documented footage of HIMARS in Ukraine. Near Kherson



HIMARS is easy target for Mi-28NM which tracks it by radar from 50 km away and blow it up using Hermes BVR missile from 20 km away.





__





Mi-28N/NM attack choppers to defend Donbas children from Kiev regime export downgraded M777 and HIMARS artillery


These export downgraded M777 and HIMARS lack long range missiles such as Excalibur range 40 km and ATACMS range 300 km so they have range about 30 km with basic unguided howitzer rounds and rockets, however they usually fire from a distance of about 10 km or else it's too inaccurate and there is...



defence.pk

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540308694277443587

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Love Love:
2 | Haha Haha:
2


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540209096279953409


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540308694277443587



Dead men walking. Kherson is flat land. There is nowhere to run. Nowhere to hide from Mi-28N/NM.





__





Mi-28N/NM attack choppers to defend Donbas children from Kiev regime export downgraded M777 and HIMARS artillery


These export downgraded M777 and HIMARS lack long range missiles such as Excalibur range 40 km and ATACMS range 300 km so they have range about 30 km with basic unguided howitzer rounds and rockets, however they usually fire from a distance of about 10 km or else it's too inaccurate and there is...



defence.pk


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540320014200340480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540321556047478784

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540323314488467458

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540323711571615744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540324213692801026

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540324521743466496

Reactions: Haha Haha:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540234179966820352


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540325160061992960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540326478306500608

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540326934852374528

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Haha Haha:
1


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540327922552242176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540327264566771713


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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540256406519136257
> 
> Apparently, the first documented footage of HIMARS in Ukraine. Near Kherson





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540264581007826944
Target may have been Snake Island


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## Viet

ZeGerman said:


> Yeah what i do not understand is why ukraine is funneling so many territorial defence forces into donbass while seemingly keeping a lot of their better trained/experienced troops in reserve.
> 
> Or taking a “no step back” approach around severodonetsk.
> Unless they really are having a larger counter-offensive planned in august.


I am not military man but no step back is nonsense. Or even suicide. The battle at Donbas is artillery battle. Russian artillery fires 15,000 shells per day as per estimate count.
As for best troops, they are fighting the Russians at the front now. They are the most experienced as they fight the separatists since years.

Germany’s general staff says despite high casualties the Russians just managed to take 4 percent plus of territories at Donbas since the battle began. That’s not much.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540331906692251649

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540330486043738113

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540329505855836161


Viet said:


> I am not military man but no step back is nonsense. Or even suicide. The battle at Donbas is artillery battle. Russian artillery fires 15,000 shells per day as per estimate count.
> As for best troops, they are fighting the Russians at the front now. They are the most experienced as they fight the separatists since years.
> 
> Germany’s general staff says despite high casualties the Russians just managed to take 4 percent plus of territories at Donbas since the battle began. That’s not much.



Russians are willing to sacrifice 10 million men to retake Donbas. Russia has 148 million people compared to Ukraine has 36 million people. Unless 1 Ukrainian can kill 10 Russians the war is lost for Ukraine. It's a simple numbers game.


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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540331906692251649
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540330486043738113
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540329505855836161
> 
> 
> Russians are willing to sacrifice 10 million men to retake Donbas. Russia has 148 million people compared to Ukraine has 36 million people. Unless 1 Ukrainian can kill 10 Russians the war is lost for Ukraine. It's a simple numbers game.


10 million? Unrealistic. At best Putin can recruit one million if taking in the fresh conscripts. Two million If he calls general mobilization.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540341203161456641


Viet said:


> 10 million? Unrealistic. At best Putin can recruit one million if taking in the fresh conscripts. Two million If he calls general mobilization.



Donbas is the heart of Russia. 10 million men is a small price to pay for retaking the heart of the nation.









DIRECT TRANSLATION: 'Donbas, the Heart of Russia'


A Commentator Close to Putin Writes: Unitary Ukraine is Finished A prominent Russian business magazine, Ekspert, publishes a lead article this week by two




www.atlanticcouncil.org

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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540341203161456641
> 
> 
> Donbas is the heart of Russia. 10 million men is a small price to pay for retaking the heart of the nation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DIRECT TRANSLATION: 'Donbas, the Heart of Russia'
> 
> 
> A Commentator Close to Putin Writes: Unitary Ukraine is Finished A prominent Russian business magazine, Ekspert, publishes a lead article this week by two
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.atlanticcouncil.org


Donbas is not the heart of Russia. That’s something for fake story makers.
The Wolga river is the heart of Russia, much like the Red river to Vietnamese, Yellow river for Chinese. Stalin ordered the defenders to fight until the last man at Stalingrad. The city is at the Wolga.
Donbas is important for Russia to take because Donbas is the industrial heart of Ukraine. Once Donbas is destroyed Ukraine is finished. So thinks Putin.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## MeFishToo

Viet said:


> 10 million? Unrealistic. At best Putin can recruit one million if taking in the fresh conscripts. Two million If he calls general mobilization.


Tai Hai belives Russia can mobilize every single russian 20-30 year old male, equip and supply them outside Russia - and still be be number one everything back home.


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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> __
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> US Army to Test Interactive Drone Swarm Over Utah – UAS VISION
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> www.uasvision.com
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> @jhungary
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> Rafael unveils new Spike NLOS missile version with in-flight control transfer - Breaking Defense
> 
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> The new version of the Spike NLOS has a target production date of 2023, Rafael officials said.
> 
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> 
> breakingdefense.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rafael unveils new Spike NLOS missile version with in-flight control transfer​The new version of the Spike NLOS has a target production date of 2023, Rafael officials said.​
> TEL AVIV: Israeli firm Rafael has unveiled a new version of its Spike missile, and has teamed with Lockheed Martin to market the system in the US.
> 
> The two firms plan to demonstrate the weapon for US forces in early 2023, Rafael officials claimed June 9, while pledging that production would also begin early in the next calendar year.
> 
> Branded as the Spike Non-Line-Of-Sight missile system (NLOS) 6th generation, Rafael officials told reporters at an in-person briefing that the new system comes with a number of new features, starting with the fact it can be launched in salvor of up to four missiles at once, with flexible control of the weapons.
> 
> 
> “Each of the missiles can be directed in the final phase of its trajectory to hit different targets in the area,” Zvi Marmor, head of the precision tactical weapon systems division in Rafael, said. “This capability crates an immediate effect.”
> 
> 
> 
> "Rafael claims the weapon now ranges up to 50 km when launched from a helicopter and up to 32 km from land and naval platforms. When asked if the new version can be carried by fixed-wing aircraft or UAV, the Rafael official said that a strategic UAV like the Heron–TP made by Israel aerospace industries can carry the missile."



That will be a game changer, because you cannot really predict where the fire has come from, and you can basically reach anywhere as long as your drone get there. And it cost you nothing (Well, the cost of the drone of course) to do such a thing. 

This is going to be more revolutionise than loitering munition. IMO.

Hope it got adopted.


sammuel said:


> It seems that with MLRS it is more a question of the number of rockets , than the number of units.
> 
> As for artillery , where it is more of a number games. The only system that can be transferred to Ukraine in large enough numbers , are the m109 howitzers .
> 
> Take the Caesar artillery for example , great system . but France has less than 100 of those. You cant expect a country to give up all it's artillery arsenal.
> 
> US has almost 1000 m109 and can easily transfer 100 of them. Ukraine already has between 40-60 m109 . Another 100 would mean that Ukraine would finely have one main artillery system.
> 
> I understand from what you wrote , that it takes a while to learn an operate the m109 , but after looking at all the available artillery systems out there , i just don't see another way to go.
> 
> ~
> ~


Well, you can't have it both ways, but depends on how well train the Ukrainian crew is, a M142 can fire 6-7 salvo in one hour (average reload time is 7-9 minutes) if you have enough ready to use pod. that's 30-40 rocket down range in just an hour, and you probably won't do that as you would most likely shoot and scoop. But if you applies that to 3 to 4 launching unit firing at the same time, you can fire 2 salvo each before reposition at max range and that's 50 rockets heading into your target, that's a lot of bang. 

As for Artillery, Ukraine would need A LOT of SPG and towed system, you still need M777 or any towed howitzer to work as defensive counter Battery fire where your SPG and MLRS work as offensive artillery. So yes, I can foresee a lot of M109 and M198 will be transferred to Ukraine. There are rumor on the Hills (Capitol Hills) that US is going to transfer some 40 M109A5/A6 to Ukraine with the next batch, That would bump the stock to somewhere around 100 unit, but that is probably just going to be stop gap, the next phase for Western/NATO support should look at how they can support Ukraine in the long run, which mean instead of piping down existing system, they need to either completely integrate Ukraine into NATO standard (like teach their air force how to fly F-16 or other western Aircraft, or how to use western equipment) or help the Ukrainian make their own weapon by donating the production line. You cannot keep fighting 6 months down the road with a mix bag of weapon, the smaller stuff (NLAW, Javelin) is already hitting maintenance issue, and we expect that is going to be the same with all the western donated artillery and SPG some 2 or 3 months down the road when they eventually needed service or breakdown.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Tai Hei belives Russia can mobilize every single russian 20-30 year old male, equip and supply them outside Russia - and still be be number one everything back home.



There are volunteers. Plenty of volunteers. Millions of Russians volunteers in Donbas.



jhungary said:


> That will be a game changer, because you cannot really predict where the fire has come from, and you can basically reach anywhere as long as your drone get there. And it cost you nothing (Well, the cost of the drone of course) to do such a thing.
> 
> This is going to be more revolutionise than loitering munition. IMO.
> 
> Hope it got adopted.
> 
> Well, you can't have it both ways, but depends on how well train the Ukrainian crew is, a M142 can fire 6-7 salvo in one hour (average reload time is 7-9 minutes) if you have enough ready to use pod. that's 30-40 rocket down range in just an hour, and you probably won't do that as you would most likely shoot and scoop. But if you applies that to 3 to 4 launching unit firing at the same time, you can fire 2 salvo each before reposition at max range and that's 50 rockets heading into your target, that's a lot of bang.
> 
> As for Artillery, Ukraine would need A LOT of SPG and towed system, you still need M777 or any towed howitzer to work as defensive counter Battery fire where your SPG and MLRS work as offensive artillery. So yes, I can foresee a lot of M109 and M198 will be transferred to Ukraine. There are rumor on the Hills (Capitol Hills) that US is going to transfer some 40 M109A5/A6 to Ukraine with the next batch, That would bump the stock to somewhere around 100 unit, but that is probably just going to be stop gap, the next phase for Western/NATO support should look at how they can support Ukraine in the long run, which mean instead of piping down existing system, they need to either completely integrate Ukraine into NATO standard (like teach their air force how to fly F-16 or other western Aircraft, or how to use western equipment) or help the Ukrainian make their own weapon by donating the production line. You cannot keep fighting 6 months down the road with a mix bag of weapon, the smaller stuff (NLAW, Javelin) is already hitting maintenance issue, and we expect that is going to be the same with all the western donated artillery and SPG some 2 or 3 months down the road when they eventually needed service or breakdown.



I think Americans have reservations about sending too many artillery to Ukraine all at once. If the US sends 500 M109 to Ukraine all at once, they get bunched up on the flat green field. Easy to pick off by attack choppers. A few M109 at a time means harder to find and so they send M109 in piecemeal until there is no more M109 left in America.


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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> There are volunteers. Plenty of volunteers. Millions of Russians volunteers in Donbas.


I believe you mean the forced mobilized ukrainians living in Donbas. I know Russia is willing to fight to the last of them, but the number is not millions.


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## jhungary

ZeGerman said:


> Yeah what i do not understand is why ukraine is funneling so many territorial defence forces into donbass while seemingly keeping a lot of their better trained/experienced troops in reserve.
> 
> Or taking a “no step back” approach around severodonetsk.
> Unless they really are having a larger counter-offensive planned in august.


I have been saying that since the beginning of June. 
Their Crack Troop were R&Ring in the rear around Kharkiv. We don't see much of the 93, 95 and 1st Tank Brigade in Donbas when we all see is some quasi regular unit (like the 53rd and 54th) that were formed after 2014 or straight up TDF brigade being fed into grinder......

And defending Sieverodonetsk does not really make sense at all.............I mean, all those men that were lost fighting the Russian in Sieverodonetsk should not have lost and should be used to defend Lysychansk south of the river or maybe reinforcing the Bekhmut direction.....


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## Apollon

Germany plans to nationalize nordstream 2 Pipeline, break the russian part off and use the german part as connection to norwegian gas flields and for lng terminals 










Germany looking at repurposing unused Nord Stream 2 pipeline for LNG use, report says


The German government is considering converting parts of the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline into a connection for a liquefied natural gas terminal on the Baltic Sea coast.




www.reuters.com






@jhungary @Foinikas @jamahir 


Putins pet project is used against him.


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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> . How many innocent people do you think will die if this spills out into a full on war with Russia? Suppose we threaten them and they don't back down? Then that's our planes against theirs, and their anti aircraft on the ground and on ships start shooting our planes down. So we have to bomb that and their radar detection and airfields inside Russia. Then they start bombing nearby nato counties in retaliation. And that's potentially just the beginning who knows what happens then. It's easy watching and doing nothing but sometimes doing something makes things a hell of a lot worse


but then where do you draw the line??

What if Russia demand Lithuania, Estonia and Lativa to leave NATO or they will attack? Would you do something then?

There are active and pro-active defence, you cannot just backdown every time Russia said "Hey I will do this or do that" If you are not going to follow through the collective defence, then why have a security pact in the first place? 

Sure, you don't go impose a No Fly Zone because of some minor thing, but you also cannot backdown on every minor thing.....


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> I have been saying that since the beginning of June.
> Their Crack Troop were R&Ring in the rear around Kharkiv. We don't see much of the 93, 95 and 1st Tank Brigade in Donbas when we all see is some quasi regular unit (like the 53rd and 54th) that were formed after 2014 or straight up TDF brigade being fed into grinder......
> 
> And defending Sieverodonetsk does not really make sense at all.............I mean, all those men that were lost fighting the Russian in Sieverodonetsk should not have lost and should be used to defend Lysychansk south of the river or maybe reinforcing the Bekhmut direction.....



Ukrainians and Russians are some of the most stubborn people. They will defend a city to the last man, woman, child.

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## jhungary

Apollon said:


> Germany plans to nationalize nordstream 2 Pipeline, break the russian part off and use the german part as connection to norwegian gas flields and for lng terminals
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Germany looking at repurposing unused Nord Stream 2 pipeline for LNG use, report says
> 
> 
> The German government is considering converting parts of the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline into a connection for a liquefied natural gas terminal on the Baltic Sea coast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @jhungary @Foinikas @jamahir
> 
> 
> Putins pet project is used against him.


It's only natural.....I mean Nord Stream 2 is just sitting there did nothing, and that is an existing network on Germany, it's only logical to repurpose that pipeline and use them to get north sea gas.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> but then where do you draw the line??
> 
> What if Russia demand Lithuania, Estonia and Lativa to leave NATO or they will attack? Would you do something then?
> 
> There are active and pro-active defence, you cannot just backdown every time Russia said "Hey I will do this or do that" If you are not going to follow through the collective defence, then why have a security pact in the first place?
> 
> Sure, you don't go impose a No Fly Zone because of some minor thing, but you also cannot backdown on every minor thing.....



Not backing down is the reason WW1 and WW2 happened. Eventually things will escalate to the point of nuclear WW3 because neither side is willing to back down and make concession.

Eventually America will run out of artillery to give and then what? There will have to be a nuclear war.

Einstein once said the following and this will happen.

“I do not know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.”

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540256406519136257
> 
> Apparently, the first documented footage of HIMARS in Ukraine. Near Kherson


That's M142 alright, but where is it filmed. Some geolocation would be nice, but then all you can see is they are firing behind a reverse slope, which is where you are taught to put the unit in........

could be anywhere...

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

If you think WW3 won't happen in our life time you are a fool.

Not backing down is the reason WW1 and WW2 happened. Eventually things will escalate to the point of nuclear WW3 because neither side is willing to back down and make concession.

Eventually America will run out of artillery to give and then what? There will have to be a nuclear war.

Einstein once said the following and this will happen.
“I do not know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.”

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## jamahir

MeFishToo said:


> I believe you mean the forced mobilized ukrainians living in Donbas. I know Russia is willing to fight to the last of them, but the number is not millions.



What do you mean forced mobilized ? Didn't Zelensky try to assassinate a Donbas area mayor some weeks ago ? He is severely injured I believe. He wasn't being forced to work with Russia but those people are happily aligned with Russia.



Apollon said:


> Germany plans to nationalize nordstream 2 Pipeline, break the russian part off and use the german part as connection to norwegian gas flields and for lng terminals
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Germany looking at repurposing unused Nord Stream 2 pipeline for LNG use, report says
> 
> 
> The German government is considering converting parts of the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline into a connection for a liquefied natural gas terminal on the Baltic Sea coast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @jhungary @Foinikas @jamahir
> 
> 
> Putins pet project is used against him.



I am sure Russia will survive.  As it is, the concept of oil and gas fuel for everything will soon become obsolete. I made this post about neutrino battery around two hours ago.

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## F-22Raptor

jhungary said:


> That's M142 alright, but where is it filmed. Some geolocation would be nice, but then all you can see is they are firing behind a reverse slope, which is where you are taught to put the unit in........
> 
> could be anywhere...




Must be an important target to fire 12 rockets. Speculation is Snake Island, but we don't really know.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540341989044113415

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539881171303092224


F-22Raptor said:


> Must be an important target to fire 12 rockets. Speculation is Snake Island, but we don't really know.



HIMARS will soon be destroyed by Mi-28N/NM.


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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> Must be an important target to fire 12 rockets. Speculation is Snake Island, but we don't really know.


hmm... I don't see a reason to attack snake island, it's at most a forward operating base for Russia in case they want to attack Odessa, which is not going to happen now as they were being pushed back from Kherson as I type, doing anything in the direction of Odessa is more or less suicidal for the Russian.

I would have imagine the Ukrainian would use them in Kharkiv first, because that is the pressure point, they need to attack Kupiansk ASAP to interrupt those supply and reinforcement coming from Russia.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> hmm... I don't see a reason to attack snake island, it's at most a forward operating base for Russia in case they want to attack Odessa, which is not going to happen now as they were being pushed back from Kherson as I type, doing anything in the direction of Odessa is more or less suicidal for the Russian.
> 
> I would have imagine the Ukrainian would use them in Kharkiv first, because that is the pressure point, they need to attack Kupiansk ASAP to interrupt those supply and reinforcement coming from Russia.



HIMARS in the east would be easy prey for Mi-28N/NM. The terrain is flat. Nothing to hide HIMARS from Mi-28N/NM's mast mounted radar.


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## MeFishToo

jamahir said:


> What do you mean forced mobilized ? Didn't Zelensky try to assassinate a Donbas area mayor some weeks ago ? He is severely injured I believe. He wasn't being forced to work with Russia but those people are happily aligned with Russia.


Im sure the mayor had no intention spending a single minut at the frontline. All of Donbas is ruled by Putins ilk. They are not forced. But the ordinary ukrainian living there is.

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> What do you mean forced mobilized ? Didn't Zelensky try to assassinate a Donbas area mayor some weeks ago ? He is severely injured I believe. He wasn't being forced to work with Russia but those people are happily aligned with Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> I am sure Russia will survive.  As it is, the concept of oil and gas fuel for everything will soon become obsolete. I made this post about neutrino battery around two hours ago.



At moment Ukraine kills collaborateurs. Just today blew one up in his car. Good.


As for Nordstream 2, its obvious that russia wont be the energy partner of Germany in the future so its good to repurpose it


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540338208336232450

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540233399822163969

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## A.P. Richelieu

aziqbal said:


> Ok after watching this war for over 120 days I have come to the following conclusion
> 
> Zelensky has clearly not showed any regard for Ukrainian lives
> 
> he continues to ask for more weapons pushing his troops into the meat grinder all the while Russia is moving forward metre by metre
> 
> Western countries have clearly not shown any regard for Ukrainian lives and NATO will fight Russia until last Ukrainian
> 
> poor Ukrainians are being targeted in this Geopolitical game and women and children are being slaughtered
> 
> no matter what Ukraine gets from West, 155mm howitzers or MIg29 at the end the victory will be for Russia
> 
> because quite simply, history tells us no one can really win in a land war against Russia even after 20 years these guys just keep coming and they have almost unlimited resources and 10s of thousands of tanks in storage
> 
> you dont become the largest nation on earth by giving up land those lands Russia has taken will never ever return to Ukraine
> 
> best deal is a peace deal, give Russia the security guarantees it wants and hand over the whole Donbas to Russia and Crimea they already have
> 
> otherwise Russia will march all way to Moldova and even further
> 
> 
> 
> Well done now you will destroy the rest of your nation
> 
> this guy is a complete lunatic
> 
> I dont even think he is Ukrainian, Russia could have taken everything in 2014 but they stopped at Crimea
> 
> this clown kept poking the bear for 8 long years and finally the bear chased him
> 
> he talks with so much confidence why? why so much ego? because he knows who his backers are
> 
> I can only feel for the poor Ukrainians they always helped everything and had a open door policy


It is interesting that you did not come to the conclusion that Russia has no regard for Ukrainan lives. Perhaps you are <understatement>*biased*</understatement>

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540360190175969281


A.P. Richelieu said:


> It is interesting that you did not come to the conclusion that Russia has no regard for Ukrainan lives. Perhaps you are <understatement>*biased*</understatement>



If Russians want to kill millions of Ukrainians. Easy. Bomb the dams on the Dnipr river.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540346170798637056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540341203161456641

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540349141641039872

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## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> but then where do you draw the line??
> 
> What if Russia demand Lithuania, Estonia and Lativa to leave NATO or they will attack? Would you do something then?
> 
> There are active and pro-active defence, you cannot just backdown every time Russia said "Hey I will do this or do that" If you are not going to follow through the collective defence, then why have a security pact in the first place?
> 
> Sure, you don't go impose a No Fly Zone because of some minor thing, but you also cannot backdown on every minor thing.....




Why oh why do the majority of people on here think that NATO and particularly the US and UK should police the world. That is neither our task nor responsibility. NATO is there to protect and defend NATO countries not everyone else who happens to be weaker than their opponents. As bad as the daily stories and pictures out of Ukraine are there is no time when any NATO member should get actively involved. Supplying weapons of defence is one thing, taking to the skies and engaging Russia is totally different. Unfortunately there is not much else we can or should do in this war. If you feel strongly dont trade with Russia ever again for anything

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> Why oh why do the majority of people on here think that NATO and particularly the US and UK should police the world. That is neither our task nor responsibility. NATO is there to protect and defend NATO countries not everyone else who happens to be weaker than their opponents. As bad as the daily stories and pictures out of Ukraine are there is no time when any NATO member should get actively involved. Supplying weapons of defence is one thing, taking to the skies and engaging Russia is totally different. Unfortunately there is not much else we can or should do in this war. If you feel strongly dont trade with Russia ever again for anything


Where did I say NATO should police the world? I said where do you draw the line when Russia threaten to a term that you no longer able to provide support to your alliance? 

I don't care if Russia threaten military action in Philippine or Fiji, I am talking about what if Russia uses its threat to decamp NATO member, as I concluded, if you don't follow up on the promise of Collective defence, then why you bother to have a defensive alliance to begin with.

Dude, have you actually read my post or you are just going to say that regardless?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540369766216617984

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## Apollon

Thats my favorite russian rocket. It was fired at luhansk region and went full boomerang, destroying its own launch system and nearby staff. Awesome.







@Foinikas @jhungary @F-22Raptor @Corax @zartosht @jamahir @Vergennes @Beast

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## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> Where did I say NATO should police the world? I said where do you draw the line when Russia threaten to a term that you no longer able to provide support to your alliance?
> 
> I don't care if Russia threaten military action in Philippine or Fiji, I am talking about what if Russia uses its threat to decamp NATO member, as I concluded, if you don't follow up on the promise of Collective defence, then why you bother to have a defensive alliance to begin with.
> 
> Dude, have you actually read my post or you are just going to say that regardless?





jhungary said:


> Where did I say NATO should police the world? I said where do you draw the line when Russia threaten to a term that you no longer able to provide support to your alliance?
> 
> I don't care if Russia threaten military action in Philippine or Fiji, I am talking about what if Russia uses its threat to decamp NATO member, as I concluded, if you don't follow up on the promise of Collective defence, then why you bother to have a defensive alliance to begin with.
> 
> Dude, have you actually read my post or you are just going to say that regardless?



Ok, it’s a defensive posture by us , Like it or not, Russia has plunged NATO and EU nations back into a "Cold War" in Europe. NATO must permanently station combat-ready NATO forces on the eastern border of NATO countries--just as NATO forces faced down the USSR on the inter-German border until the USSR failed. Failure of NATO to act now to prevent Russian expansion will encourage Russia to follow Ukraine with attempts on the Baltic States or other NATO countries.

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## Foinikas

Apollon said:


> Thats my favorite russian rocket. It was fired at luhansk region and went full boomerang, destroying its own launch system and nearby staff. Awesome.


Someone is happy

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## Apollon

Foinikas said:


> Someone is happy



Thats what happens when your rocket is guided by a washing machine controle unit. 😅👍


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540368263372312576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540372481789280256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540373506625601537

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Thats my favorite russian rocket. It was fired at luhansk region and went full boomerang, destroying its own launch system and nearby staff. Awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Foinikas @jhungary @F-22Raptor @Corax @zartosht @jamahir @Vergennes @Beast



1. My commiserations to the missile crew.

2. Show me The Sun's vids about NATO-created "Syrian" "moderate" "rebels" trying to fire rockets or guns which then explode on themselves. Or show me the The Sun's posted vids of NATO-supported Ukrainian nationalists / Nazis terrorizing Ukrainian civilians or those in Donbas or the journalists and opposition politicians.


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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> Ok, it’s a defensive posture by us , Like it or not, Russia has plunged NATO and EU nations back into a "Cold War" in Europe. NATO must permanently station combat-ready NATO forces on the eastern border of NATO countries--just as NATO forces faced down the USSR on the inter-German border until the USSR failed. Failure of NATO to act now to prevent Russian expansion will encourage Russia to follow Ukraine with attempts on the Baltic States or other NATO countries.


There are going to be push back from Russia. That is why we can't back down on Ukraine, whatever we are doing is enough (well, not enough as they need more weapon than what we are sending now) but we also need to draw another red line for Russia not to threaten any of us with weapon of mass destruction. We need to have a clear line what we will do if Russia uses any WMD in Ukraine. And that is up to and including imposing a no fly zone over Ukraine *IF* Russia cross that line. As I said before, lines need to be drawn and of course we are not going to do anything like that if Russia did not cross that line. But we still need to be prepared and react with posture if said line is crossed. 

As I said, we cannot afford to be passive and just let Russia threaten us and we step back every time they do. We need to have clear plan as what we will do if Russia start escalating this in Ukraine near NATO border. Because it will be too late if they get inside NATO border.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> There are going to be push back from Russia. That is why we can't back down on Ukraine, whatever we are doing is enough (well, not enough as they need more weapon than what we are sending now) but we also need to draw another red line for Russia not to threaten any of us with weapon of mass destruction. We need to have a clear line what we will do if Russia uses any WMD in Ukraine. And that is up to and including imposing a no fly zone over Ukraine *IF* Russia cross that line. As I said before, lines need to be drawn and of course we are not going to do anything like that if Russia did not cross that line. But we still need to be prepared and react with posture if said line is crossed.
> 
> As I said, we cannot afford to be passive and just let Russia threaten us and we step back every time they do. We need to have clear plan as what we will do if Russia start escalating this in Ukraine near NATO border. Because it will be too late if they get inside NATO border.



Humans haven't evolved one bit since 200,000 years ago. Their little brain only knows "We will not back down. We must have war." This is what Einstein had to say about this.

“I do not know with what weapons _World War_ III will be fought, but _World War_ IV will be fought with _sticks_ and stones.” – Albert _Einstein_.

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> 1. My commiserations to the missile crew.
> 
> 2. Show me The Sun's vids about NATO-created "Syrian" "moderate" "rebels" trying to fire rockets or guns which then explode on themselves. Or show me the The Sun's posted vids of NATO-supported Ukrainian nationalists / Nazis terrorizing Ukrainian civilians or those in Donbas or the journalists and opposition politicians.



I love how its going full boomerang and killing its own crew. Wonder if they realized whats going on.


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## jhungary

Apollon said:


> Thats my favorite russian rocket. It was fired at luhansk region and went full boomerang, destroying its own launch system and nearby staff. Awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Foinikas @jhungary @F-22Raptor @Corax @zartosht @jamahir @Vergennes @Beast


That's either a launch failure or the seeker mistook the launch pad as target (which I doubt because the missile would have to be higher to be able to do that) most likely it failed after launch and head back down to earth and kaboom, took out the launch pad too.

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## zartosht

Apollon said:


> Thats my favorite russian rocket. It was fired at luhansk region and went full boomerang, destroying its own launch system and nearby staff. Awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Foinikas @jhungary @F-22Raptor @Corax @zartosht @jamahir @Vergennes @Beast



Multi-billion dollar US anti missile systems come equipped with the exact same features. 

Russian systems come at a fraction of a price and are known for being more reliable then overpriced/over engineered western junk that they can only make a handful of because of the insane price








Ukies and Nato are getting bent over every which way on the military/economic/diplomatic realm. Its good you find some tiny nuggets to sooth your immense butthurt

Its gonna get worse for you, buckle up

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540302127641534465

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## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> There are going to be push back from Russia. That is why we can't back down on Ukraine, whatever we are doing is enough (well, not enough as they need more weapon than what we are sending now) but we also need to draw another red line for Russia not to threaten any of us with weapon of mass destruction. We need to have a clear line what we will do if Russia uses any WMD in Ukraine. And that is up to and including imposing a no fly zone over Ukraine *IF* Russia cross that line. As I said before, lines need to be drawn and of course we are not going to do anything like that if Russia did not cross that line. But we still need to be prepared and react with posture if said line is crossed.
> 
> As I said, we cannot afford to be passive and just let Russia threaten us and we step back every time they do. We need to have clear plan as what we will do if Russia start escalating this in Ukraine near NATO border. Because it will be too late if they get inside NATO border.




Sweden has conscription, as does Finland. When mobilised, Sweden's Army is larger than the UK's. Finland operates a similar system, and when mobilised, it's Army is an equivalent size to what Russia's was before it began its war with Ukraine. Both countries active service standing Armies are highly professional and, at present, are hugely better equipped than the Russian Army which is almost literally scraping the barrel of its Inventory


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## Apollon

zartosht said:


> Multi-billion dollar US anti missile systems come equipped with the exact same features.
> 
> Russian systems come at a fraction of a price and are known for being more reliable then overpriced/over engineered western junk that they can only make a handful of because of the insane price
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukies and Nato are getting bent over every which way on the military/economic/diplomatic realm. Its good you find some tiny nuggets to sooth your immense butthurt
> 
> Its gonna get worse for you, buckle up



Worse for me? Are you telling me Lufthansa stopped porsche transfer from 1st class terminal to aircraft in Frankfurt? 


Dude we live in different worlds.


That said, let us enjoy those self grilled occupiers.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> Sweden has conscription, as does Finland. When mobilised, Sweden's Army is larger than the UK's. Finland operates a similar system, and when mobilised, it's Army is an equivalent size to what Russia's was before it began its war with Ukraine. Both countries active service standing Armies are highly professional and, at present, are hugely better equipped than the Russian Army which is almost literally scraping the barrel of its Inventory



Western men have decayed so much by now they are unwilling to fight Houthis let alone Russians.  They don't even know what gender they are anymore.

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> Sweden has conscription, as does Finland. When mobilised, Sweden's Army is larger than the UK's. Finland operates a similar system, and when mobilised, it's Army is an equivalent size to what Russia's was before it began its war with Ukraine. Both countries active service standing Armies are highly professional and, at present, are hugely better equipped than the Russian Army which is almost literally scraping the barrel of its Inventory


Sweden can mobilise around 200,000 men out of the 9 millions citizens, they don't have the same conscription they used to have, now it's more or less how you fire your weapon and some basic infantry stuff. Swedish does have a large reserve or home guard component, but that take times to mobilise accord to Försvarsmakten, it will take anywhere from 3 months to 1 year to achieve complete mobilisation. 

Note : My wife was a major in Swedish Army 

Finland have a bigger and deeper defence force, Finland system is pre-2010 Swedish System (well, similar but not the same) where they assigned conscript into reserve unit and put it there for 1/2, 3/4 or full year of service, and those unit retain their training even after demob (training is voluntary tho) Latest figure points to 80% of Finns 30 years or below have been military trained and about half of those are retained for military service, which bump the reserve to 900,000 men. With mobilisation time between 3 to 6 months. Ready reserve + active personnel made the back bone of Finnish Defence Force, numbering around 200,000 with aim to raise that number to 280,000.

In all, both country combine can present 1.5 million fighting force within 1 year.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

It looks like the Kiev regime lost its capital city in Luhansk oblast.









Ukraine war: Kyiv orders forces to withdraw from Severodonetsk


Severodonetsk is the current focus of Russia as it tries to take control of eastern Ukraine.



www.bbc.com

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## Viet

Most of Ukraine artillery is shorter in range thus inferior to Russia artillery, that says a German general. Germany will deliver 6 more howitzer to Ukraine. That will enable Ukraine artillery to target Russia artillery.


----------



## ZeGerman

Apollon said:


> Thats my favorite russian rocket. It was fired at luhansk region and went full boomerang, destroying its own launch system and nearby staff. Awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Foinikas @jhungary @F-22Raptor @Corax @zartosht @jamahir @Vergennes @Beast


Hahaha even their own rockets dont like Orcs.

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## Iron Shrappenel

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540302127641534465


That's a note out of the Nagorno Karabakh conflict... Its a good idea.


----------



## _Nabil_

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540308694277443587


Absolutely! Kherson has fallen 🤣😂😅

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540375592494764032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540406601357705216


Viet said:


> Most of Ukraine artillery is shorter in range thus inferior to Russia artillery, that says a German general. Germany will deliver 6 more howitzer to Ukraine. That will enable Ukraine artillery to target Russia artillery.
> 
> 
> View attachment 856498



Germany howitzer is easy prey for Mi-28N/NM which tracks it using mast mounted radar from 50 km away and smashes it using Hermes BVR missile range 30 km.


----------



## aziqbal

A.P. Richelieu said:


> It is interesting that you did not come to the conclusion that Russia has no regard for Ukrainan lives. Perhaps you are <understatement>*biased*</understatement>



Russia has zero regard for any human life 

thats the way Russian culture is, they even kill each other more 

so either you accept that or keep fighting and end up dead


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

aziqbal said:


> Russia has zero regard for any human life
> 
> thats the way Russian culture is, they even kill each other more
> 
> so either you accept that or keep fighting and end up dead



Ukrainians. Russians. Hell, even Belarussians, Lithuanians, Poles, Romanians, Bulgarians, same scums. Germans call them undermensch.


----------



## oberschlesier

The current state of the EU gas storage is ~ 55% full


Gas Infrastructure Europe - AGSI



The EU plan is to have 80% end of October.

With the current speed( with the current distributions and prices ) it will happen end of September.

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## aziqbal

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Ukrainians. Russians. Hell, even Belarussians, Lithuanians, Poles, Romanians, Bulgarians, same scums. Germans call them undermensch.



that is very racist


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540405170403786752

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540405687699865601

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540401688472952838


aziqbal said:


> that is very racist



This is how Germans think of eastern Europeans.


----------



## oberschlesier

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Ukrainians. Russians. Hell, even Belarussians, Lithuanians, Poles, Romanians, Bulgarians, same scums. Germans call them undermensch.


No. Russians are just not European. There somewhere is between Europe and Asia. That is why they talk about "Eurasia". They have an identity issue.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> This is how Germans think of eastern Europeans.


Are you an expert on "what Germans think" ?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

oberschlesier said:


> Are you an expert on "what German think" ?



You should ask what Germans think.

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## oberschlesier

Tai Hai Chen said:


> You should ask what Germans think.


They don`t care.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

oberschlesier said:


> No. Russians are just not European. There somewhere is between Europe and Asia. That is why they talk about "Eurasia".



Europe and Asia are connected by land.


----------



## oberschlesier

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Europe and Asia are connected by land.


Sure. Basic Geography. Russia can act like a bridge and benefit, or be in conflict in one of the sides.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

oberschlesier said:


> Sure. Basic Geography. Russia can act like a bridge and benefit, or be in conflict in one of the sides.



True, but Chinese military hardware now can flood into Donbas by rail now that the Amur river bridge has been built and is operational.


----------



## oberschlesier

Tai Hai Chen said:


> True, but Chinese military hardware now can flood into Donbas by rail now that the Amur river bridge has been built and is operational.


Sure, it can. Will it ? Is China interested to fight this war to the last Russian ?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

oberschlesier said:


> Sure, it can. Will it ? Is China interested to fight this war to the last Russian ?



The enemy of my enemy is my friend. America is China's enemy. So it is in China's interest to fight America in Donbas. At least it serves the purpose of destroying America's artillery in Donbas.

I wouldn't be surprised if China sends J-16 and Su-35 to Russia for use in Donbas war.


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

@Tai Hai Chen Russian regime is a fcking joke!!!

This one is for you dummy @Tai Hai Chen






Suicide it's a suicide, biddy bye bye
Suicide it's a suicide
Suicide it's a suicide, biddy bye bye
Suicide it's a suicide

So you wanna die, commit suicide
Dial 1-800-Cyanide line


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> @Tai Hai Chen Russian regime is a fcking joke!!!
> 
> This one is for you dummy @Tai Hai Chen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suicide it's a suicide, biddy bye bye
> Suicide it's a suicide
> Suicide it's a suicide, biddy bye bye
> Suicide it's a suicide
> 
> So you wanna die, commit suicide
> Dial 1-800-Cyanide line



Laugh while you can. Mi-28NM is blowing up Kiev regime artillery using Hermes 30 km NLOS missiles.
















https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo

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## Get Ya Wig Split

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Laugh while you can. Mi-28NM is blowing up Kiev regime artillery using Hermes 30 km NLOS missiles.


More Russian military junk






Fck outta here lol


----------



## Elvin

Those things are flying coffins, I would hate to be a pilot in that thing, how many have been shot down? Especially today where the Ukrainians have many Manpads and even a 50. cal machine gun at full blast within 400 feet can knock this soviet trash out of the sky.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Elvin said:


> Those things are flying coffins, I would hate to be a pilot in that thing, how many have been shot down? Especially today where the Ukrainians have many Manpads and even a 50. cal machine gun at full blast within 400 feet can knock this soviet trash out of the sky.



MANPADS don't have the range to engage Mi-28NM. Hermes missile has range 30 km. Also, MANPADS are largely ineffective against Mi-28NM's self protection suite.

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## oberschlesier

Tai Hai Chen said:


> The enemy of my enemy is my friend. America is China's enemy. So it is in China's interest to fight America in Donbas. At least it serves the purpose of destroying America's artillery in Donbas.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if China sends J-16 and Su-35 to Russia for use in Donbas war.


Russia is not fighting America or NATO, just Ukraine, that gets help from the west, and this help is not big to be frank( 10B USD? ) and not much deteriorating NATO Power.

I would be suprised if China would send it`s fighters there, this would mean, that Russian`s campaign is a complete disaster and would risk the China`s relationship with Europe over Russia, which is the junior Partner comparing to Europe.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

oberschlesier said:


> Russia is not fighting America or NATO, just Ukraine, that gets help from the west, and this help is not big to be frank( 10B USD? ) and not much deteriorating NATO Power.
> 
> I would be suprised if China would send it`s fighters there, this would mean, that Russian`s campaign is a complete disaster and would risk the China`s relationship with Europe over Russia, which is the junior Partner comparing to Europe.



True, but all of NATO's artillery will eventually be sent to Ukraine where they will be destroyed. That is not a small number.



oberschlesier said:


> I would be suprised if China would send it`s fighters there, this would mean, that Russian`s campaign is a complete disaster and would risk the China`s relationship with Europe over Russia, which is the junior Partner comparing to Europe.



China stands on morale high ground. It is the Kiev regime that shelled Donbas civilians since 2014. It is the Kiev regime that forced Russia's hand to do military operation. It is the Kiev regime that started the war. Chinese people are not stupid. Chinese people know who is the bully. Chinese people have been bullied by western Europeans in the past. Chinese people are wary of western Europeans and their imperialism. Chinese people would rather break relation with western Europe than not protecting civilians from bullies.

Turkey invaded Cyprus to protect ethnic Turks in Cyprus. Chinese people understand Turkey's invasion is of good nature. Likewise, Chinese people understand Russia's invasion is of good nature.

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## Apollon

Tai Hai Chen said:


> You should ask what Germans think.



Im german and i see poles czech ect as our brothers.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> Im german and i see poles czech ect as our brothers.



Then you are clearly the minority.

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## oberschlesier

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Then you are clearly the minority.


As I have mentioned before, you are not expert regarding Central Europe.


----------



## Apollon

Tai Hai Chen said:


> MANPADS don't have the range to engage Mi-28NM. Hermes missile has range 30 km. Also, MANPADS are largely ineffective against Mi-28NM's self protection suite.



Looks quite effective ha ha ha ha

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

oberschlesier said:


> I would be suprised if China would send it`s fighters there, this would mean, that Russian`s campaign is a complete disaster and would risk the China`s relationship with Europe over Russia, which is the junior Partner comparing to Europe.



China's relation with western Europe is only temporary. Chinese do not trust western Europeans. Chinese people have been bullied by western Europeans in the past. Britain imposed opium on Chinese people and snatched Hong Kong from China in war. Chinese people are wary of western Europeans and their imperialism. To Chinese people, Russia is friend, western Europe is enemy.

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## Apollon

oberschlesier said:


> As I have mentioned before, you are not expert regarding Central Europe.



My father is thuringian, i have czech friends. We have no problems with you guys.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> China's relation with western Europe is only temporary. Chinese do not trust western Europeans. Chinese people have been bullied by western Europeans in the past. Britain imposed opium on Chinese people and snatched Hong Kong from China in war. Chinese people are wary of western Europeans and their imperialism. To Chinese people, Russia is friend, western Europe is enemy.



Must suck for,you that russia is a poor hellhole with weak economy.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> Must suck for,you that russia is a poor hellhole with weak economy.



A poor friend is better than a rich enemy. Not to mention Russia is a neighbor, and western Europe is very far away.

Before you ask why China supports Russia, you should ask what western Europeans have done to China.

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## TNT

I am even pro russia in this war but i request mods to please ban tai hai chen.

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## oberschlesier

Tai Hai Chen said:


> True, but all of NATO's artillery will eventually be sent to Ukraine where they will be destroyed. That is not a small number.



Won`t happen, too much of artillery in NATO.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> China stands on morale high ground. It is the Kiev regime that shelled Donbas civilians since 2014. It is the Kiev regime that forced Russia's hand to do military operation. It is the Kiev regime that started the war. Chinese people are not stupid. Chinese people know who is the bully. Chinese people have been bullied by western Europeans in the past. Chinese people are wary of western Europeans and their imperialism. Chinese people would rather break relation with western Europe than not protecting civilians from bullies.
> 
> Turkey invaded Cyprus to protect ethnic Turks in Cyprus. Chinese people understand Turkey's invasion is of good nature. Likewise, Chinese people understand Russia's invasion is of good nature.



"China stands on morale high ground. It is the Kiev regime that shelled Donbas civilians since 2014. It is the Kiev regime that forced Russia's hand to do military operation. It is the Kiev regime that started the war. "

Nice copy/paste.

Nobody has a Problem in Europe with Chinese people. Why worsen the relationship over Russian action.


----------



## gambit

TNT said:


> I am even pro russia in this war but i request mods to please ban tai hai chen.


I do not support expulsion but everyone should just ignore the 16 yrs old. He truly is an annoying troll.


----------



## oberschlesier

Apollon said:


> My father is thuringian, i have czech friends. We have no problems with you guys.


It was not to you, but to the "Canadian"  Guy. You are Cool.


----------



## aziqbal

when Israel steals Palestinian lands US says 

Israel has right to land 

when Russia takes Ukraine land US says 

no country is allowed to do land grab in 21st century 

Russia is exposing Western hypocrisy

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## oberschlesier

Tai Hai Chen said:


> China's relation with western Europe is only temporary. Chinese do not trust western Europeans. Chinese people have been bullied by western Europeans in the past. Britain imposed opium on Chinese people and snatched Hong Kong from China in war. Chinese people are wary of western Europeans and their imperialism. To Chinese people, Russia is friend, western Europe is enemy.


Russia is a not a firend... and western Europe is not a enemy. Pragmatically from a ecomonic point of view Europe is more importnant.


----------



## aziqbal

for too many years Western nations have said Muslims are terrorists 

now Russia call Ukrainians terrorist 

if you invade someones land off course its human nature to repel the invader like in Afghanistan and Iraq

US calls them terrorists 

now Russia is exposing Western hypocrisy

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## nang2

aziqbal said:


> for too many years Western nations have said Muslims are terrorists
> 
> now Russia call Ukrainians terrorist
> 
> if you invade someones land off course its human nature to repel the invader like in Afghanistan and Iraq
> 
> US calls them terrorists
> 
> now Russia is exposing Western hypocrisy


This type of brainwashing is always toxic and creating artificial schism among mankind. In China, we used to demonize everything American and Japanese. After 1978, Chinese suddenly realized Americans are very friendly, too, and not as selfish as Chinese state media used to portrait. We hated Japanese for the atrocity they inflicted upon Chinese during WWII and earlier period. Yet, their TV series greatly touched and inspired millions of Chinese. I am sure similar experiences have been felt by between Americans and Russians, Jews and Muslims, Indians and Pakistanis. But brainwashing that intends to demonize other people is still in fashion. It is such a convenient tool for politicians to drive people to do their bidding.

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## Flight of falcon

Apollon said:


> Thats my favorite russian rocket. It was fired at luhansk region and went full boomerang, destroying its own launch system and nearby staff. Awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Foinikas @jhungary @F-22Raptor @Corax @zartosht @jamahir @Vergennes @Beast




Wow unless you have X-ray vision the only thing we can see is a rogue rocket exploding and that’s it. It’s a fragmented warhead that exploded. You are definitely using to much cheap dope .


----------



## Apollon

Flight of falcon said:


> Wow unless you have X-ray vision the only thing we can see is a rogue rocket exploding and that’s it. It’s a fragmented warhead that exploded. You are definitely using to much cheap dope .



It explodes on russians base. Thats what matters and it smashs right into launch pad.


----------



## Elvin

oberschlesier said:


> Russia is not fighting America or NATO, just Ukraine, that gets help from the west, and this help is not big to be frank( 10B USD? ) and not much deteriorating NATO Power.
> 
> I would be suprised if China would send it`s fighters there, this would mean, that Russian`s campaign is a complete disaster and would risk the China`s relationship with Europe over Russia, which is the junior Partner comparing to Europe.



Not ev


Tai Hai Chen said:


> MANPADS don't have the range to engage Mi-28NM. Hermes missile has range 30 km. Also, MANPADS are largely ineffective against Mi-28NM's self protection suite.



You’re suggesting every Hermes missile will be shot from 30 kilometres away? THAT is impossible buddy, from most of the footage I've seen these old soviet crap machines fire from approx 3-5 kilometres away. 

Are you saying a Manpad missile cannot shoot down this MI-28NM? HAHAHAHAHAHAH


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

aziqbal said:


> when Israel steals Palestinian lands US says
> 
> Israel has right to land
> 
> when Russia takes Ukraine land US says
> 
> no country is allowed to do land grab in 21st century
> 
> Russia is exposing Western hypocrisy


No, this just expose your lack of understanding International Laws,
Ignored from now on.

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## Elvin

China won't do anything, they have no interest in sending their men to die in Ukraine. This is all wishful thinking. Besides, judging from prior wars the Chinese are good at dying, that's about it. Life is cheap in Russia and China, they throw bodies into the fight not caring how many will die. 

I always say, the Soviets did not lose 20 mil men because the Germans were super strong, they lost so many men because of dumb soviet tactics. It is also funny to see Moscow trying to hijack the 20 mil deaths as Russians when we all know it was all peoples from the former SU.


----------



## MeFishToo

Elvin said:


> Not ev
> 
> 
> You’re suggesting every Hermes missile will be shot from 30 kilometres away? THAT is impossible buddy, from most of the footage I've seen these old soviet crap machines fire from approx 3-5 kilometres away.
> 
> Are you saying a Manpad missile cannot shoot down this MI-28NM? HAHAHAHAHAHAH


Initially he claimed those helicopters would fire at artillery from 100 km using Hermes missiles. Then he scaled it down to 20 km when I told him Hermes A for aircrafts had maximum range of 15-20 km. Now he has extended the range to 30 km. I think he is a russian bot.


----------



## _Nabil_

A.P. Richelieu said:


> No, this just expose your lack of understanding International Laws,
> Ignored from now on.


And expose your Hypocrisy 😅🤣

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## Apollon

Russian IL -76 bound for Ukraine to deliver weapons.....miracously catched fire after take off and crashed into a city 200km away from Moskow.







Thats best scenario. Destroy them still on russian soil.


What you think? Javelin? Stugna?


@jhungary @oberschlesier @jamahir @zartosht

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540452902199771136


Elvin said:


> Not ev
> 
> 
> You’re suggesting every Hermes missile will be shot from 30 kilometres away? THAT is impossible buddy, from most of the footage I've seen these old soviet crap machines fire from approx 3-5 kilometres away.
> 
> Are you saying a Manpad missile cannot shoot down this MI-28NM? HAHAHAHAHAHAH



Of course, 30 km is the max range. Most time it'll be shot from say 10 km or so. Likewise, MANPADS max range is 6 km, but most times it is shot from about 2 km. 90% of time in Donbas artillery is shot from about 10 km when the max range is about 30 km.

And while it is possible MANPADS can shoot down Mi-28NM, it might take the lives of 100 MANPADS to shoot down a single Mi-28NM. The loss ratio just won't be worth it, especially considering Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine.



Elvin said:


> China won't do anything, they have no interest in sending their men to die in Ukraine. This is all wishful thinking. Besides, judging from prior wars the Chinese are good at dying, that's about it. Life is cheap in Russia and China, they throw bodies into the fight not caring how many will die.
> 
> I always say, the Soviets did not lose 20 mil men because the Germans were super strong, they lost so many men because of dumb soviet tactics. It is also funny to see Moscow trying to hijack the 20 mil deaths as Russians when we all know it was all peoples from the former SU.



It suffices for China to send military hardware. Whatever Russia needs, China sends. This is payback time for 100 years of humiliation at the hands of western Europeans.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540460300809506816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540450652559654913
So the question is why does China support Russia? The answer is revenge. Revenge for 100 years of humiliation at the hands of the Western Europeans. Opium war. Hong Kong. Anglo French invasion of China. German invasion of China.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540308694277443587




Whomever is mkaing that claim us chatting sh*t. No way that the Ukrainians are near Kherson. Their "counter-offensives" have turned out to be be a disaster for them. Not sure why people are claiming the impossible!

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540328244674699266

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540327432028291073

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540286368529715200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540247955046912001

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## Flight of falcon

Apollon said:


> It explodes on russians base. Thats what matters and it smashs right into launch pad.




It’s fkn mobile launch in the theatre of war. Not some base .


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540402812080820229

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540401110736830464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540288634489913346

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540349754420363264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540379227677249537

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## F-22Raptor

At an AFA event June 24, Air Force Secretary Frank Kendall went further, saying Russia’s Air Force has been “absent” in the Ukraine war.

“The Russian Air Force has been absent from the war to a large extent, and it’s because they’ve been intimidated by the … air defenses the Ukrainians have been able to use tactically pretty successfully,” Kendall said.

The result has been more than 100 days of contested air space.









Shift to Air Defense War in Ukraine Prompts US to Rethink Aid - Air Force Magazine


The Biden administration announced another $450 million in military aid to Ukraine, including four additional HIMARS rocket systems.




www.airforcemag.com





USAF Sec Kendall days the Russian Air Force has been absent

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## Hassan Al-Somal

kingQamaR said:


> Sweden has conscription, as does Finland. When mobilised, Sweden's Army is larger than the UK's. Finland operates a similar system, and when mobilised, it's Army is an equivalent size to what Russia's was before it began its war with Ukraine. Both countries active service standing Armies are highly professional and, at present, are hugely better equipped than the Russian Army which is almost literally scraping the barrel of its Inventory



More than half of their men have already lost their manhood through transgender and gay procedures. So when an army whose men cut their balls (Sweden, Netherlands, and Finland) fights with an army whose men have their balls intact (Russia), of course the army whose men have their balls intact (Russia) is going to win. Come' on people, those hormones they use on those men who lost their manhood will melt as soon as they smell the bullets. Swedes, Dutch, and Finnish people should stop beating their chests. Straight men will defeat in battle against batty boys and men who turned themselves into "women". Weird and strange if you ask me now that batty boys and gender "fluid" people are claiming to be gearing up for battle. What is this? The End of Age?

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## Corruptistan

So let me get this straight. The US can invade a sovereign nation on the other side of the planet (Iraq) based on a lie, with full blessings of most of the Western governments but Russia cannot invade a neighboring country that they themselves (USSR) created and which has a sizable Russian minority that has been persecuted by Western-sponsored Ukrainian nationalists in Donbas and elsewhere since the coup in 2014?

Anyway it looks like Donbas will return to Russia and there is nothing the West can do about that.





Long live the hypocrisy.

Similarly with Taiwan, what are the US even doing there? Taiwan is a part of China and inhabited by Han Chinese. The dispute dates back to the Chinese civil war. Anyway we all know that the US presence in Taiwan and support for it is only used as a pretext for trying to keep China in check. However that will fail just like they failed to keep Russia in check in Ukraine.

Long live the multipolar world and to hell with Western hypocrisy.

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## Abid123



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## F-22Raptor

Reports of significant strikes on Russian targets in Donetsk Oblast with HIMARS

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## The SC

The last Ukrainian forces fighting in the hotly contested eastern city of Severodonetsk have been ordered to withdraw to avoid being encircled, as fears are growing that the neighboring city of Lysichansk will also fall into Russia's hands within days.

The expected loss of Severodonetsk is the last reversal of the Battle of Kyiv after its defeat in the port city of Mariupol. According to some estimates, there are still about 12,000 civilians in Sievierodonetsk, out of a population of 160,000 before the war.








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540359272797708288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540321676629524480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540324884445859841
The Pentagon: *Russia imposes a complete naval blockade on the shores of the Black Sea*
@AlArabiya_Brk


Russian President: *We are ready to supply the world with 50 million tons of grain, and the West is intimidating the situation around Ukrainian grain*
@AsharqNewsBrk

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540366274668253184

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540257581087744000

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540475528272019456

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540303060974669825

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540452156570058752

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540257270914768898

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540402253105958912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540405411743948800

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540391880965373959

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__





Loading…






twitter.com






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540354915859824641

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540236888765861888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540239551964368896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540122788945616896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540312166233956357

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540301296137297921

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## Hassan Al-Somal

When CNN reports the defeat of Ukrainian army in the Luhansk region, you know they can no longer hide the truth from people. The mainstream media in the West is preparing their viewers the inevitable: Russian military victory in the Donbas region. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540351612765577225

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540428455392731137

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540251075537772545

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540271216774225922

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540246573246042113

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540367148400394240

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540349195227467776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540408481991348224

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540349483686453251

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## _Nabil_

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> When CNN reports the defeat of Ukrainian army in the Luhansk region, you know they can no longer hide the truth from people. The mainstream media in the West is preparing their viewers the inevitable: Russian military victory in the Donbas region.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540351612765577225
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540428455392731137


Sorry I have to disagree, CNN is just a bunch of Communists journalists.

What are you talking about??? Ukrainian troops encircling Kherson @15km last week, and today Kherson finally have fallen 🤣😂😅

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540323494373769218


_Nabil_ said:


> Sorry I have to disagree, CNN is just a bunch of Communists journalists.
> 
> What are you talking about??? Ukrainian troops encircling Kherson @15km last week, and today Kherson finally have fallen 🤣😂😅




  

Their lies are blowing up right in front of us.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539761406865772547

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540476109330022400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540469272132067330

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540412829789978624

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540460898451611653

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540461218040889344

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540472742423699457

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## _Nabil_

nang2 said:


> This type of brainwashing is always toxic and creating artificial schism among mankind. In China, we used to demonize everything American and Japanese. After 1978, Chinese suddenly realized Americans are very friendly, too, and not as selfish as Chinese state media used to portrait. We hated Japanese for the atrocity they inflicted upon Chinese during WWII and earlier period. Yet, their TV series greatly touched and inspired millions of Chinese. I am sure similar experiences have been felt by between Americans and Russians, Jews and Muslims, Indians and Pakistanis. But brainwashing that intends to demonize other people is still in fashion. It is such a convenient tool for politicians to drive people to do their bidding.


It's your problem if you love your executioners and flagellants.

A Demon will be called a Demon, even if you lost your honour and pride to stand for your country and community and call him a Demon.

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## oberschlesier

Apollon said:


> Russian IL -76 bound for Ukraine to deliver weapons.....miracously catched fire after take off and crashed into a city 200km away from Moskow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats best scenario. Destroy them still on russian soil.
> 
> 
> What you think? Javelin? Stugna?
> 
> 
> @jhungary @oberschlesier @jamahir @zartosht


Rusian technical culture.


----------



## oberschlesier

Pretty cool. maybe some of the Russian Vehikels will will be displayed in Warsaw at 15.08, just for fun ?


----------



## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 24​Jun 24, 2022 - Press ISW


Download the PDF

*Kateryna Stepanenko, Mason Clark, George Barros, and Grace Mappes
June 24, 7:15 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Ukrainian officials ordered a controlled withdrawal of troops from Severodonetsk on June 24.* Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai announced that Ukrainian forces are withdrawing from “broken positions” in Severodonetsk to prevent further personnel losses and maintain a stronger defense elsewhere.[1] Severodonetsk Regional Military Administration Head Roman Vlasenko stated that several Ukrainian units remain in Severodonetsk as of June 24, but Ukrainian forces will complete the full withdrawal in “a few days.”[2] An unnamed Pentagon official noted that Ukrainian withdrawal from Severodonetsk will allow Ukrainian troops to secure better defensive positions and further wear down Russian manpower and equipment.[3] The Pentagon official noted that Russian forces pushing on Severodonetsk already show signs of “wear and tear” and “debilitating morale,” which will only further slow Russian offensive operations in Donbas. Russian forces have been attempting to seize Severodonetsk since at least March 13, exhausting their forces and equipment over three months.[4]
*Ukrainian forces will likely maintain their defenses around Lysychansk and continue to exhaust Russian troops after the fall of Severodonetsk. *Ukrainian forces will occupy higher ground in Lysychansk, which may allow them to repel Russian attacks for some time if the Russians are unable to encircle or isolate them. Russian forces in Severodonetsk will also need to complete river crossings from the east, which will require additional time and effort. Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) Head Leonid Pasechnik claimed that Russian forces will completely encircle Lysychansk in the next two or three days after fully interdicting Ukrainian ground lines of communications (GLOCs).[5] Russian forces have successfully secured access to Ukrainian GLOCs along the Hirske-Lysychansk highway by breaking through Hirske on June 24, but Russian forces will need to cut Ukrainian logistics routes from Bakhmut and Siversk to fully isolate Lysychansk. Russian forces are likely to face challenges completing a larger encirclement around Lysychansk due to a failed river crossing in Bilohorivka, northwest of Lysychansk, in early May. Ukrainian forces will likely conduct a deliberate withdrawal from Lysychansk if Russian forces threaten Ukrainian strongholds in the area.
*Ukrainian intelligence warned that Russian forces will carry out false-flag attacks in Belarus to draw Belarusian forces into the Russian invasion of Ukraine. *The Ukrainian Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported that Russian sabotage groups and mercenaries arrived in Mozyr, Belarus, to detonate apartment buildings and civilian infrastructure around the city.[6] The GUR noted that Russian saboteurs will follow a pattern similar to apartment bombings in Chechnya in the early 2000s. Ukrainian officials have previously reported on possible false-flag attacks in Belarus throughout the past four months.
*Unidentified assailants resumed attacks against Russian military recruitment centers on June 24, indicating intensifying discontent with covert mobilization. *Russian outlet Baza reported two incidents where unknown attackers threw Molotov Cocktails at military recruitment offices in Belgorod City and Perm on June 24.[7] Baza also reported that Belgorod Oblast Police started a search for four contract servicemen—one sergeant and three ordinary soldiers–who have deserted their military unit stationed in Belgorod Oblast.[8]
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces continued to drive north to Lysychansk and have likely encircled Ukrainian troops in Hirske-Zolote.*
*Ukrainian officials announced that Ukrainian forces are fighting their last battles in the industrial zone of Severodonetsk before withdrawing from the city.*
*Russian forces conducted unsuccessful offensive operations west of Izyum and north of Slovyansk. Russian forces will likely prioritize encircling Ukrainian troops in Lysychansk and interdicting remaining GLOCs northwest of the city before resuming a full-scale offensive operation on Slovyansk.*
*Ukrainian forces are continuing to launch counteroffensive operations along the Kherson-Dnipropetrovsk Oblast border and are threatening Russian forces in Kherson City.*
*Ukrainian partisans continued to attack Russian collaborators in Kherson City.*

*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued to advance toward Lysychansk from the south and launched assaults on Severodonetsk. Russian forces continued to push on Lysychansk from Vovchoyarivka and Bila Hora in its southern outskirts on June 24.[9] Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai stated that Ukrainian forces are fighting their last battles in the city’s industrial zone before their full withdrawal.[10] Severodonetsk Regional State Administration Head Roman Vlasenko stated that Russian forces are launching assaults on settlements just southeast of Severodonetsk.[11] Ukrainian Defense Ministry Spokesperson Oleksandr Motuzyanyk reported that Russian forces intensified airstrikes throughout the Luhansk Oblast frontline and deployed S-300 anti-aircraft missiles systems to cover their air offensive group.[12] Combat footage indicates that Russian forces are using air attacks to destroy the remaining bridges and roads to Lysychansk.[13] Russia’s Defense Ministry also posted footage of Russian Central Military District Commander Alexander Lapin in occupied Stepove (just west of Luhansk City) on June 23.[14] Lapin’s arrival in Luhansk may indicate that the Kremlin is preparing to declare victory in Severodonetsk in the coming days.
Russian forces likely encircled some Ukrainian forces in Zolote and continued to attack Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) along the T1303 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway. Hirske District Head Oleksiy Babchenko reported that Russian forces occupied all settlements in Hirske district following a breakthrough from the east.[15] Hirske is situated just northeast of Ukrainian fortifications in Zolote, and Russian control of the settlement indicates that Russian forces have successfully bypassed and encircled Ukrainian positions. Babchenko said that Ukrainian officials ordered a withdrawal of Ukrainian troops from Zolote three to four days ago. The Russian Defense Ministry claimed that Russian forces encircled 1,800 Ukrainian servicemen in Zolote-Hirske, but ISW is unable to verify the number of Ukrainian servicemen remaining in the settlement.[16] Ukrainian forces also lost access to the T1303 Hirske-Lysychansk highway and adjacent roads, with the last humanitarian shipment arriving in Hirske on June 17.[17] Motuzyanyk reported that Russian forces are fighting in Mykolaivka and Berestove to interdict the adjacent T1303.[18]

Russian forces launched unsuccessful offensive operations north of Slovyansk and west of Izyum on June 24. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repulsed Russian assaults on Borhorodychne and Dolyna, on the E40 highway to Slovyansk.[19] Ukrainian Defense Ministry Spokesperson Oleksandr Motuzyanyk noted that Russian forces unsuccessfully attacked Kurulka and Virnopillya in an effort to set conditions for a renewed offensive operation on Barvinkove, approximately 35 km southwest of Izyum.[20] Motuzyanyk added that Russian forces are accumulating additional reserves and deployed a battery of Uragan MLRS to Novoselivka, a settlement northwest of Lyman, to resume offensives on Slovyansk.[21]
Russian forces will likely prioritize completing the operational encirclement of Lysychansk from Lyman in the future, rather than conducting a ground assault on Slovyansk. Russian forces continue to shell Siversk (approximately 28 km northwest of Lysychansk), likely in an effort to interdict the remaining Ukrainian GLOCs to Lysychansk.[22] Russian milblogger Yuri Kotyenok noted that Russian forces will attempt to seize Lysychansk before mid-July ahead of the rainy season, which would complicate Russian advances due to muddy roads.[23] Kotyenok added that Russian forces do not have enough manpower to encircle heavily fortified Slovyansk and Kramatorsk, or advance north of Avdiivka. Russian forces will need recovery time to initiate advances on Slovyansk, following the grinding campaign to capture Severodonetsk and Lysychansk.

*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces focused on preventing Ukrainian advances toward the international border and from threatening Russian forces operating in the Izyum-Slovyansk area.[24] Russian forces continued heavy shelling of settlements northeast and southeast of Kharkiv City and launched two Iskander ballistic missiles at the city on June 24.[25] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces intensified the use of sabotage and reconnaissance groups in settlements and are attempting to resume offensive operations to improve tactical positions beyond the international border.[26] Ukrainian Defense Ministry Spokesperson Oleksandr Motuzyanyk noted that Russian forces began accumulating personnel and engineering equipment in Velykyi Burlyk, a settlement on Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) in northeastern Kharkiv Oblast, likely in a continuing effort to maintain Russian logistics routes to Izyum and Luhansk Oblast.[27]

*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces did not conduct offensive operations in Kherson Oblast amidst Ukrainian counteroffensives along the Kherson-Mykolaiv and Kherson-Dnipropetrovsk Oblast borders on June 24. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that half of the Russian forces retreated to Olhine, just south of the Kherson-Dnipropetrovsk Oblast border, following a successful Ukrainian counteroffensive in the area.[28] Russian forces continued to launch airstrikes and fire artillery at Ukrainian positions on the western bank of the Inhulets River.[29] Ukrainian Defense Ministry Spokesperson Oleksandr Motuzyanyk also noted that Russian forces conducted artillery strikes on settlements just 20 km northwest of Kherson City in an effort to suppress Ukrainian counteroffensives toward the city.[30] Russian outlets reported that Head of the Russian National Guard (Rosguardia) Viktor Zolotov arrived in an unspecified Kherson Oblast settlement on June 24 to distribute awards to Russian servicemen, although the full intentions of his visit remain unclear.[31]

*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: Consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Ukrainian partisans continued to target Russian collaborators in Kherson City and are complicating Russian efforts to establish local occupation administrations. Ukrainian and Russian sources confirmed that Ukrainian partisans detonated an improvised explosive device and killed the occupation director of youth policy management Dmytro Savluchenko in Kherson City on June 24.[32] The Ukrainian Southern Operational Command noted that Kherson Oblast residents also refuse to collaborate with Russian occupation authorities and are slowing down Russian preparations for a referendum on September 11.[33] Ukrainian partisan activity may discourage other Russian collaborators from accepting local administration positions and further strain Russian occupation personnel shortages.
Ukrainian civilians continue to flee Russian occupied settlements in southern Ukraine. Melitopol Mayor Ivan Fedorov estimated that over 35,000 Melitopol residents left the city last month.[34] ISW previously reported that Enerhodar residents are also leaving the city to avoid collaborating with Russian officials.[35]

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## oberschlesier

Polish SMALL military prade looked like this in 2018:






I wonder for 2022.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540451598589198336


oberschlesier said:


> Polish SMALL military prade looked like this in 2018:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder for 2022.



Poland stronk! Poland can probably roll into Moscow right now and wipe Russia off the map for good.


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## ckf

_Nabil_ said:


> Sorry I have to disagree, CNN is just a bunch of Communists journalists.
> 
> What are you talking about??? Ukrainian troops encircling Kherson @15km last week, and today Kherson finally have fallen 🤣😂😅


CNN stands for China News Network?


----------



## oberschlesier

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540451598589198336
> 
> 
> Poland stronk! Poland can probably roll into Moscow right now and wipe Russia off the map for good.


Poland does not have to do anything. Our Agent is in the Kremlin, doing the job for us


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540451489130455042

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540450482321297409


oberschlesier said:


> Poland does not have to do anything. Our Agent is in the Kremlin, doing the job for us



Putin is a Chinese vassal. With China's backing, Russia's economy is soaring sky high. Germany on the other hand is collapsing. China is finally getting revenge on Western Europe which bullied and humiliated China for 100 years which is known in China as 100 Years Of Humiliation.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540349483686453251



This is a tactical withdrawal as Ukraine has now received heaviers weapons which can hit much harder and longer. Ukraine does not want their solddiers dying in friendly fire. Within the next few days Russian forces in whole of donbas will be decimated by the NATO weapons.

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## oberschlesier

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Putin is a Chinese vassal. With China's backing, Russia's economy is soaring sky high. Germany on the other hand is collapsing. China is finally getting revenge on Western Europe which bullied and humiliated China for 100 years which is known in China as 100 Years Of Humiliation.


China is on the other side of the world. Good luck there.

What is really happening in Europe, is that Russia is probably breaking this:









Pereiaslav Agreement - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





This is a pretty good development for Poland, for Russia not really 
Yeah, our Agent is doing his job  and yes we have the Gas stored for the Winter


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

oberschlesier said:


> China is on the other side of the world. Good luck there.
> 
> What is really happening in europe, is that Russia i sprobably breaking this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pereiaslav Agreement - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



Amur river bridge is operational. China and Russia are now connected by road and rail. Chinese tanks and artillery can easily reach Donbas via Russia.


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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Snake island is now under Ukranian control.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539582568600719362

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## oberschlesier

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Amur river bridge is operational. China and Russia are now connected by road and rail. Chinese tanks and artillery can easily reach Donbas via Russia.


China won`t do anything to support Russia.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

oberschlesier said:


> China won`t do anything to support Russia.



China supports Russia for revenge. Revenge of British and German bullying in the 1800s.


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## khansaheeb

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540227912825245697
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540244787663618051
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540261355822977024
> 
> 
> Russia cruise missiled all of Ukraine's military hardware factories.


The T62 is like a 60 Year old tank, are they transporting them to the smelters or to areas where they don't expect any resistance? Otherwise they will be sitting ducks for NATO-Ukrainian anti-tank missiles.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

khansaheeb said:


> The T62 is like a 60 Year old tank, are they transporting them to the smelters or to areas where they don't expect any resistance? Otherwise they will sitting ducks for NATO-Ukrainian anti-tank missiles.



T-62M is armed with Bastion anti tank missiles range 4 km. They can be used as tank destroyers and are vastly superior to Kiev regime T-72.









9M117 Bastion - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## oberschlesier

Tai Hai Chen said:


> China supports Russia for revenge. Revenge of British and German bullying in the 1800s.


Yeah.. why not the revange for the 16 Century ?
Not very pragmatic.

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## khansaheeb

Tai Hai Chen said:


> T-62M is armed with Bastion anti tank missiles range 4 km. They can be used as tank destroyers and are vastly superior to Kiev regime T-72.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9M117 Bastion - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


Only saw 8 tanks with rocket launchers.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

khansaheeb said:


> Only saw 8 tanks with rocket launchers.



The missile is launched from 115 mm main gun and guided by the laser emitter mounted above the main gun. Anyway, T-62M is used by rebels. Russians themselves use T-90M.


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## khansaheeb

Tai Hai Chen said:


> The missile is launched from 115 mm main gun and guided by the laser emitter mounted above the main gun. Anyway, T-62M is used by rebels. Russians themselves use T-90M.


So which tank is this?:-


----------



## RoadAmerica

zartosht said:


> One would have thought the Germans learned their lesson about messing with Russia after ww2?
> 
> *400 full stregnth wehrmacht divisions* that absolutely slaughtered any western army on its path. the strongest army ever assmebled in human history in that point.
> 
> backed up with* 30 ss divisions, finland, romania, and various alli*es. Launched an all out invasion on Russia(largest and most powerful in human history, numbering several millions) . Which had at the time purged 1/3 of its officer corps, and was in total dissaray and considered weak and pathetic.....
> 
> The Russians absolutely slaughtered this army, burned the entire country to the ground, placed their flag on the parliament building, and raped the entire female popuation of germany, cut them down to half in size, and forever removed them as a geopolitical power.
> 
> now this feminist cuckold scholz thinks hes going to take on todays Russia with his tranny army? Russians armed to the teeth with enough nukes to wipe out civilizaiton many times over?
> 
> Germany will eat nukes 50 times over before they get a chance to throw another firecracker towards Russsia. The Russians have 0 tolerance for any new german aggresiion.


Seek help

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## dBSPL

Although it didn't attract much attention, the HIMARS that the US delivered to Ukraine is a highly advanced artillery system that could tactically be a power multiplier to Ukraine.

On a more general scale, the Ukrainian-Russian war created a process that reaffirmed the importance of artillery systems.



Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Snake island is now under Ukranian control.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539582568600719362


It's a very small islet. But its strategic importance is enormous.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

khansaheeb said:


> So which tank is this?:-
> 
> View attachment 856593



No idea what that is.


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## dBSPL

oberschlesier said:


> Polish SMALL military prade looked like this in 2018:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder for 2022.


It's nice to see a country in Europe that still have military parades. I think it has to do with the cultural background of Poland.



Abid123 said:


>


Nice caricature, but I don't think the bear did stayed that cosmetically flawless as drawn.

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## khansaheeb

dBSPL said:


> It's nice to see a country in Europe that still have military parades. I think it has to do with the cultural background of Poland.
> 
> 
> Nice caricature, but I don't think the bear did stayed that cosmetically flawless as drawn.


Why are they marching like the Russians? God Forbid if Ruassia attacks Poland, will be hearing "Kourva" from the poles for a long time.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

khansaheeb said:


> Why are they marching like the Russians? God Forbid if Ruassia attacks Poland, will hearing "Kourva" from the poles for a long time.



Poles are confused people. They are German wannabes.

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## dBSPL

khansaheeb said:


> Why are they marching like the Russians? God Forbid if Ruassia attacks Poland, will be hearing "Kourva" from the poles for a long time.


Poland (Lehistan) is the last link of a very important state tradition, which has an important place in European political history and has managed to become a military school in certain periods. Their ancestors' compassion for the Russians caused them, after a few hundred years, to face an invasion movement as soon as they first weakened. The Soviets made this invasion with the help of the Nazis.

In short, Poland is a country with deep-rooted history and painful lessons to be learned from its history. I think it is more important to understand the world of thought they are in, rather than belittle them.


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## jhungary

Apollon said:


> Russian IL -76 bound for Ukraine to deliver weapons.....miracously catched fire after take off and crashed into a city 200km away from Moskow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats best scenario. Destroy them still on russian soil.
> 
> 
> What you think? Javelin? Stugna?
> 
> 
> @jhungary @oberschlesier @jamahir @zartosht


More like either it's failed mechanically or sabotage. 

It's equally possible as Russia is lacking of parts and cannot make them due to Western Sanction.


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## khansaheeb

Barbarity of the West:-









The rape of Berlin


The USSR's role in the defeat of Nazi Germany World War Two is seen as the nation's most glorious moment. But there is another story - of mass rapes by Soviet soldiers of German women.



www.bbc.com




The rape of Berlin​*By Lucy Ash*
BBC News, Berlin

Published1 May 2015
Share
Related Topics

World War Two




IMAGE SOURCE,ALAMY
*The USSR's role in the defeat of Nazi Germany World War Two 70 years ago is seen as the nation's most glorious moment. But there is another story - of mass rapes by Soviet soldiers of German women in the dying days of the war.
Some readers may find this story disturbing.*
Dusk is falling in Treptower Park on the outskirts of Berlin and I am looking up at a statue dramatically outlined against a lilac sky. Twelve metres (40ft) high, it depicts a Soviet soldier grasping a sword in one hand and a small German girl in the other, and stamping on a broken swastika.
This is the final resting place for 5,000 of the 80,000 Soviet troops who fell in the Battle of Berlin between 16 April and 2 May 1945.
The colossal proportions of the monument reflect the scale of the sacrifice. At the top of a long flight of steps, you can peer into the base of the statue, which is lit up like a religious shrine. An inscription saying that the Soviet people saved European civilisation from fascism catches my eye.
But some call this memorial the Tomb of the Unknown Rapist.

Stalin's troops assaulted an uncounted number of women as they fought their way to the German capital, though this was rarely mentioned after the war in Germany - West or East - and is a taboo subject in Russia even today.
The Russian media regularly dismiss talk of the rapes as a Western myth, though one of many sources that tells the story of what happened is a diary kept by a young Soviet officer.



IMAGE SOURCE,VITALY GELFAND
Vladimir Gelfand, a young Jewish lieutenant from central Ukraine, wrote with extraordinary frankness from 1941 through to the end of the war, despite the Soviet military's ban on diaries, which were seen as a security risk.
The manuscript paints a picture of disarray in the regular battalions - miserable rations, lice, routine anti-Semitism and theft, with men even stealing their comrades' boots.
In February 1945, Gelfand was stationed by the Oder River dam, preparing for the final push on Berlin, and he describes how his comrades surrounded and overpowered a battalion of women fighters.
"The captured German female cats declared they were avenging their dead husbands," he writes. "They must be destroyed without mercy. Our soldiers suggest stabbing them through their genitals but I would just execute them."

It gets worse.
One of the most revealing passages in Gelfand's diary is dated 25 April, once he had reached Berlin. Gelfand was whirling around on a bicycle by the River Spree, the first time he'd ever ridden one, when he came across a group of German women carrying suitcases and bundles.



IMAGE SOURCE,VITALY GELFAND
In broken German, he asked them where they were going and why they had left their homes.
"With horror on their faces, they told me what had happened on the first night of the Red Army's arrival," he writes.
"'They poked here,' explained the beautiful German girl, lifting up her skirt, 'all night. They were old, some were covered in pimples and they all climbed on me and poked - no less than 20 men,' she burst into tears.
"'They raped my daughter in front of me,' her poor mother added, 'and they can still come back and rape her again.' This thought horrified everyone.

"'Stay here,' the girl suddenly threw herself at me, 'sleep with me! You can do whatever you want with me, but only you!'"
By this stage, German soldiers had been guilty of sexual violence and other horrors in the Soviet Union for almost four years, as Gelfand had become aware as he fought his way to Berlin.
"He went through so many villages in which the Nazis had killed everyone, even small children. And he saw evidence of rape," says his son, Vitaly.




Image caption,
Vitaly Gelfand discovered his father's diary after he died
The Wehrmacht was supposedly a well-ordered force of Aryans who would never contemplate sex with _untermenschen_.
But the ban was ignored, says Oleg Budnitsky, a historian at the Higher School of Economics in Moscow. Nazi commanders were in fact so concerned about venereal disease that they established a chain of military brothels throughout the occupied territories.
It's hard to find direct evidence of how the German soldiers treated Russian women - many victims never survived - but in the German-Russian Museum in Berlin, director Jorg Morre shows me a photograph taken in Crimea from a German soldier's personal wartime album. A woman's corpse is sprawled on the ground.
"It looks like she was killed by raping, or after the rape. Her skirt is pulled up and the hands are in front of the face," he says.
"It's a shocking photo. We had discussions in the museum, should we show the photos - this is war, this is sexual violence under German policy in the Soviet Union. We are showing war. Not talking about war but showing it."
As the Red Army advanced into what the Soviet press called "the lair of the fascist beast" posters encouraged troops to show their anger: "Soldier: You are now on German soil. The hour of revenge has struck!"



IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES
In fact, the political department of the 19th Army, which fought its way into Germany along the Baltic Coast, declared that a true Soviet soldier would be so full of hatred that he would be repulsed by sex with Germans. But once again soldiers proved the ideologists wrong.
While researching his 2002 book, Berlin, The Downfall, historian Antony Beevor found documents about sexual violence in the state archive of the Russian Federation. They were sent by the NKVD, the secret police, to their boss, Lavrentiy Beria, in late 1944.
"These were passed on to Stalin," says Beevor. "You can actually see from the ticks whether they've been read or not - and they report on the mass rapes in East Prussia and the way that German women would try to kill their children, and kill themselves, to avoid such a fate."
Another wartime diary, this time kept by the fiancee of an absent German soldier, shows that some women adapted to the appalling circumstances, in order to survive.
Starting on 20 April 1945, 10 days before Hitler's suicide, the anonymous author is, like Vladimir Gelfand, brutally honest, with razor-sharp powers of observation and occasional flashes of gallows humour.
Describing herself as "a pale-faced blonde always dressed in the same winter coat", the diarist paints vivid pictures of her neighbours in the bomb shelter beneath her Berlin apartment block, including a "young man in grey trousers and horn-rimmed glasses who on closer inspection turns out to be a young woman" and three elderly sisters, "all dressmakers, huddled together like a big black pudding".



IMAGE SOURCE,GERMAN-RUSSIAN MUSEUM
Image caption,
Soviet soldiers distribute food in Berlin, in May 1945 (photograph: Timofey Melnik)
As they await the arrival of the Red Army, they joke "better a Russky on top than a Yank overhead" - rape is preferable to being pulverised by bombs. But when the soldiers reach their basement and try to haul women out, they beg the diarist to use her Russian language skills and complain to the Soviet command.
Braving the chaos on the rubble strewn streets, she manages to find a senior officer. He shrugs his shoulders. Despite Stalin's decree banning violence against civilians, he says, "It happens anyway."
The officer returns to the cellar with her and reprimands the soldiers, but one is seething with fury.
"'What do you mean? What did the Germans do to our women!' He is screaming: 'They took my sister and…' The officer calms the man down and gets them outside."
But when the diarist steps back into the corridor to check they have gone, the men have been lying in wait and grab her. She is brutally raped and nearly strangled. The terrified neighbours, or "cave dwellers" as she calls them, had slammed the basement door shut.
"Finally the two iron levers open. Everyone stares at me," she writes. "My stockings are down to my shoes, I'm still holding on to what's left of my suspender belt. I start yelling 'You pigs! Here they rape me twice in a row and you leave me lying like a piece of dirt!'"
Eventually the diarist realises that she needs to find one "wolf" to stave off gang rape by the "male beasts". The relationship between aggressor and victim becomes less violent, more transactional - and more ambiguous. She shares her bed with a senior officer from Leningrad with whom she discusses literature and the meaning of life.
"By no means could it be said that the major is raping me," she writes. "Am I doing it for bacon, butter, sugar, candles, canned meat? To some extent I'm sure I am. In addition, I like the major and the less he wants from me as a man, the more I like him as a person."



IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES
Image caption,
US troops watch a Russian soldier with a female friend in Berlin
Many of the diarist's neighbours made similar deals with the conquerors in the ruins of Berlin.
When the diary was published in German in 1959 under the title A Woman in Berlin, the author's frank account of the choices she made to survive was attacked for "besmirching the honour" of German women. Not surprisingly, she refused to allow the book to be republished until after her death.
Seventy years after the end of the war, new research on sexual violence committed by all the Allied forces - American, British and French as well as Soviet - is still emerging. But for years the subject slid under the official radar. Few reported it and even fewer would listen.
Besides the social stigma, in East Germany it was sacrilegious to criticise Soviet heroes who had defeated fascism while across the Wall in the West, the guilt for Nazi crimes made German suffering unmentionable.
But in 2008, there was a film adaptation of the Berlin Woman's diary called Anonyma, starring the well-known German actress Nina Hoss. The film had a cathartic effect in Germany and encouraged many women to come forward, including Ingeborg Bullert.



IMAGE SOURCE,DOROTHY FEAVER
Image caption,
Ingeborg: "My mother liked to boast that her daughter hadn't been touched"
Ingeborg, aged 90, now lives in Hamburg in a flat filled with photos of cats and books about the theatre. She was 20 in 1945, dreamed of becoming an actress and lived with her mother in an upmarket street in Berlin's Charlottenberg district.
When the Soviet assault on the city began, like the woman diarist, she took refuge in the cellar of her building.
"Suddenly there were tanks in our street and everywhere the bodies of Russian and German soldiers", she recalls. "I remember the dreadful whining sound made by those Russian bombs - we called them Stalinorgels (Stalin organs)."
During a lull in the air raid, Ingeborg left the cellar and ran upstairs to look for a piece of string to use as a wick for a lamp. "Suddenly there were two Russians pointing their pistols at me," she says. "One of them forced me to expose myself and raped me, and then they changed places and the other one raped me as well. I thought I would die, that they would kill me."
Ingeborg didn't talk about her ordeal at the time, or for decades afterwards - she said it was too difficult. "My mother liked to boast that her daughter hadn't been touched," she says.



IMAGE SOURCE,INGEBORG BULLERT
Image caption,
Ingeborg: "I thought I was going to die"
But the rapes had affected women in households across Berlin. Ingeborg recalls that women between the ages of 15 and 55 were ordered to get tested for sexually transmitted diseases. "You needed the medical certificate to get the food stamps and I remember that all the doctors doing these certificates, had waiting rooms full of women."
What was the scale of the rapes? The most often quoted number is a staggering 100,000 women in Berlin and two million on German territory. That figure - hotly debated - was extrapolated from scant surviving medical records.
In a former munitions factory which now houses the State Archive, Martin Luchterhand shows me an armful of blue cardboard folders. These contain abortion records dated July to October 1945 from Neukolln, just one of Berlin's 24 districts - it's a small miracle that they survived intact.
Abortions were illegal in Germany according to Article 218 of the penal code, but Luchterhand says "there was a small window for those women because of that special situation of the mass rapes in 1945".



IMAGE SOURCE,DOROTHY FEAVER







IMAGE SOURCE,DOROTHY FEAVER
Altogether 995 pleas for abortion were approved by this one district office in Berlin office between June 1945 to 1946. The files contain over 1,000 fragile scraps of paper of different colours and sizes. In childish round handwriting, one girl testifies that she was assaulted in the living room of her home in front of her parents.
We will probably never know the true scale of the rapes. Soviet military tribunals and other sources remain classified. The Russian parliament recently passed a law which says that anyone who denigrates Russia's record in World War Two could face fines and up to five years in prison.
Vera Dubina, a young historian at the University of Humanities in Moscow, says she knew nothing of the rapes until a scholarship took her to Berlin. She later wrote a paper on the subject but struggled to get it published.
"The Russian media reacted very aggressively," she says. "People only want to hear about our glorious victory in the Great Patriotic War and now it is getting harder to do proper research."



IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES
It's the fate of history to be rewritten to suit the agenda of the present. That's why first-hand accounts are so valuable - from those who brave the subject now, in their old age, and from those younger voices who put pencil to paper on the spot.
Vitaly Gelfand, son of the Red Army diarist Vladimir Gelfand, doesn't deny that many Soviet soldiers showed great bravery and sacrifice in World War Two - but that's not the whole story, he says.
Recently Vitaly did an interview on Russian radio, which triggered some anti-Semitic trolling on social media, saying the diary's a fake and he should clear off to Israel (he has in fact lived in Berlin for the last 20 years). Yet he is hoping the diary will be published in Russia later this year. Parts of it have been translated into German and Swedish.
"If people don't want to know the truth, they're just deluding themselves", he says. "The entire world understands it, Russia understands it and the people behind those new laws about defaming the past, even they understand it. We can't move forward until we look back."




The Battle for Berlin (April - May 1945)​



IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES
Image caption,
Red Army soldier raises the Soviet flag over the Reichstag in Berlin

After the Red Army captured Vienna, Joseph Stalin ordered his forces on to Berlin, determined to take the city before US forces
Two and a half million Red Army troops, 6,000 tanks and more than 40,000 artillery pieces were deployed, supported by thousands of aircraft
After heavy fighting and substantial losses, by 21 April, Red Army soldiers had entered the outlying suburbs of Berlin
In a staff conference on 22 April Adolf Hitler came close to admitting defeat but instead resolved to fight on, directing troops from his underground bunker
As Soviet forces took the city, it is estimated that close to 100,000 women were raped by Red Army soldiers
On 30 April Hitler killed himself and by 2 May the Reichstag had fallen
World War Two: History's most savage and devastating war




The Rape of Berlin_ is on BBC World Service on Saturday 2 May at 18.06 BST and Sunday 3 May at 11.06 BST, or listen on _iPlayer
_Subscribe to the _BBC News Magazine's email newsletter_ to get articles sent to your inbox._
Related Topics​
Germany
Berlin
World War Two

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## dBSPL

khansaheeb said:


> Barbarity of the West:-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The rape of Berlin
> 
> 
> The USSR's role in the defeat of Nazi Germany World War Two is seen as the nation's most glorious moment. But there is another story - of mass rapes by Soviet soldiers of German women.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The rape of Berlin​*By Lucy Ash*
> BBC News, Berlin
> 
> Published1 May 2015
> Share
> Related Topics
> 
> World War Two
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMAGE SOURCE,ALAMY
> *The USSR's role in the defeat of Nazi Germany World War Two 70 years ago is seen as the nation's most glorious moment. But there is another story - of mass rapes by Soviet soldiers of German women in the dying days of the war.
> Some readers may find this story disturbing.*
> Dusk is falling in Treptower Park on the outskirts of Berlin and I am looking up at a statue dramatically outlined against a lilac sky. Twelve metres (40ft) high, it depicts a Soviet soldier grasping a sword in one hand and a small German girl in the other, and stamping on a broken swastika.
> This is the final resting place for 5,000 of the 80,000 Soviet troops who fell in the Battle of Berlin between 16 April and 2 May 1945.
> The colossal proportions of the monument reflect the scale of the sacrifice. At the top of a long flight of steps, you can peer into the base of the statue, which is lit up like a religious shrine. An inscription saying that the Soviet people saved European civilisation from fascism catches my eye.
> But some call this memorial the Tomb of the Unknown Rapist.
> 
> Stalin's troops assaulted an uncounted number of women as they fought their way to the German capital, though this was rarely mentioned after the war in Germany - West or East - and is a taboo subject in Russia even today.
> The Russian media regularly dismiss talk of the rapes as a Western myth, though one of many sources that tells the story of what happened is a diary kept by a young Soviet officer.
> 
> 
> 
> IMAGE SOURCE,VITALY GELFAND
> Vladimir Gelfand, a young Jewish lieutenant from central Ukraine, wrote with extraordinary frankness from 1941 through to the end of the war, despite the Soviet military's ban on diaries, which were seen as a security risk.
> The manuscript paints a picture of disarray in the regular battalions - miserable rations, lice, routine anti-Semitism and theft, with men even stealing their comrades' boots.
> In February 1945, Gelfand was stationed by the Oder River dam, preparing for the final push on Berlin, and he describes how his comrades surrounded and overpowered a battalion of women fighters.
> "The captured German female cats declared they were avenging their dead husbands," he writes. "They must be destroyed without mercy. Our soldiers suggest stabbing them through their genitals but I would just execute them."
> 
> It gets worse.
> One of the most revealing passages in Gelfand's diary is dated 25 April, once he had reached Berlin. Gelfand was whirling around on a bicycle by the River Spree, the first time he'd ever ridden one, when he came across a group of German women carrying suitcases and bundles.
> 
> 
> 
> IMAGE SOURCE,VITALY GELFAND
> In broken German, he asked them where they were going and why they had left their homes.
> "With horror on their faces, they told me what had happened on the first night of the Red Army's arrival," he writes.
> "'They poked here,' explained the beautiful German girl, lifting up her skirt, 'all night. They were old, some were covered in pimples and they all climbed on me and poked - no less than 20 men,' she burst into tears.
> "'They raped my daughter in front of me,' her poor mother added, 'and they can still come back and rape her again.' This thought horrified everyone.
> 
> "'Stay here,' the girl suddenly threw herself at me, 'sleep with me! You can do whatever you want with me, but only you!'"
> By this stage, German soldiers had been guilty of sexual violence and other horrors in the Soviet Union for almost four years, as Gelfand had become aware as he fought his way to Berlin.
> "He went through so many villages in which the Nazis had killed everyone, even small children. And he saw evidence of rape," says his son, Vitaly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image caption,
> Vitaly Gelfand discovered his father's diary after he died
> The Wehrmacht was supposedly a well-ordered force of Aryans who would never contemplate sex with _untermenschen_.
> But the ban was ignored, says Oleg Budnitsky, a historian at the Higher School of Economics in Moscow. Nazi commanders were in fact so concerned about venereal disease that they established a chain of military brothels throughout the occupied territories.
> It's hard to find direct evidence of how the German soldiers treated Russian women - many victims never survived - but in the German-Russian Museum in Berlin, director Jorg Morre shows me a photograph taken in Crimea from a German soldier's personal wartime album. A woman's corpse is sprawled on the ground.
> "It looks like she was killed by raping, or after the rape. Her skirt is pulled up and the hands are in front of the face," he says.
> "It's a shocking photo. We had discussions in the museum, should we show the photos - this is war, this is sexual violence under German policy in the Soviet Union. We are showing war. Not talking about war but showing it."
> As the Red Army advanced into what the Soviet press called "the lair of the fascist beast" posters encouraged troops to show their anger: "Soldier: You are now on German soil. The hour of revenge has struck!"
> 
> 
> 
> IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES
> In fact, the political department of the 19th Army, which fought its way into Germany along the Baltic Coast, declared that a true Soviet soldier would be so full of hatred that he would be repulsed by sex with Germans. But once again soldiers proved the ideologists wrong.
> While researching his 2002 book, Berlin, The Downfall, historian Antony Beevor found documents about sexual violence in the state archive of the Russian Federation. They were sent by the NKVD, the secret police, to their boss, Lavrentiy Beria, in late 1944.
> "These were passed on to Stalin," says Beevor. "You can actually see from the ticks whether they've been read or not - and they report on the mass rapes in East Prussia and the way that German women would try to kill their children, and kill themselves, to avoid such a fate."
> Another wartime diary, this time kept by the fiancee of an absent German soldier, shows that some women adapted to the appalling circumstances, in order to survive.
> Starting on 20 April 1945, 10 days before Hitler's suicide, the anonymous author is, like Vladimir Gelfand, brutally honest, with razor-sharp powers of observation and occasional flashes of gallows humour.
> Describing herself as "a pale-faced blonde always dressed in the same winter coat", the diarist paints vivid pictures of her neighbours in the bomb shelter beneath her Berlin apartment block, including a "young man in grey trousers and horn-rimmed glasses who on closer inspection turns out to be a young woman" and three elderly sisters, "all dressmakers, huddled together like a big black pudding".
> 
> 
> 
> IMAGE SOURCE,GERMAN-RUSSIAN MUSEUM
> Image caption,
> Soviet soldiers distribute food in Berlin, in May 1945 (photograph: Timofey Melnik)
> As they await the arrival of the Red Army, they joke "better a Russky on top than a Yank overhead" - rape is preferable to being pulverised by bombs. But when the soldiers reach their basement and try to haul women out, they beg the diarist to use her Russian language skills and complain to the Soviet command.
> Braving the chaos on the rubble strewn streets, she manages to find a senior officer. He shrugs his shoulders. Despite Stalin's decree banning violence against civilians, he says, "It happens anyway."
> The officer returns to the cellar with her and reprimands the soldiers, but one is seething with fury.
> "'What do you mean? What did the Germans do to our women!' He is screaming: 'They took my sister and…' The officer calms the man down and gets them outside."
> But when the diarist steps back into the corridor to check they have gone, the men have been lying in wait and grab her. She is brutally raped and nearly strangled. The terrified neighbours, or "cave dwellers" as she calls them, had slammed the basement door shut.
> "Finally the two iron levers open. Everyone stares at me," she writes. "My stockings are down to my shoes, I'm still holding on to what's left of my suspender belt. I start yelling 'You pigs! Here they rape me twice in a row and you leave me lying like a piece of dirt!'"
> Eventually the diarist realises that she needs to find one "wolf" to stave off gang rape by the "male beasts". The relationship between aggressor and victim becomes less violent, more transactional - and more ambiguous. She shares her bed with a senior officer from Leningrad with whom she discusses literature and the meaning of life.
> "By no means could it be said that the major is raping me," she writes. "Am I doing it for bacon, butter, sugar, candles, canned meat? To some extent I'm sure I am. In addition, I like the major and the less he wants from me as a man, the more I like him as a person."
> 
> 
> 
> IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES
> Image caption,
> US troops watch a Russian soldier with a female friend in Berlin
> Many of the diarist's neighbours made similar deals with the conquerors in the ruins of Berlin.
> When the diary was published in German in 1959 under the title A Woman in Berlin, the author's frank account of the choices she made to survive was attacked for "besmirching the honour" of German women. Not surprisingly, she refused to allow the book to be republished until after her death.
> Seventy years after the end of the war, new research on sexual violence committed by all the Allied forces - American, British and French as well as Soviet - is still emerging. But for years the subject slid under the official radar. Few reported it and even fewer would listen.
> Besides the social stigma, in East Germany it was sacrilegious to criticise Soviet heroes who had defeated fascism while across the Wall in the West, the guilt for Nazi crimes made German suffering unmentionable.
> But in 2008, there was a film adaptation of the Berlin Woman's diary called Anonyma, starring the well-known German actress Nina Hoss. The film had a cathartic effect in Germany and encouraged many women to come forward, including Ingeborg Bullert.
> 
> 
> 
> IMAGE SOURCE,DOROTHY FEAVER
> Image caption,
> Ingeborg: "My mother liked to boast that her daughter hadn't been touched"
> Ingeborg, aged 90, now lives in Hamburg in a flat filled with photos of cats and books about the theatre. She was 20 in 1945, dreamed of becoming an actress and lived with her mother in an upmarket street in Berlin's Charlottenberg district.
> When the Soviet assault on the city began, like the woman diarist, she took refuge in the cellar of her building.
> "Suddenly there were tanks in our street and everywhere the bodies of Russian and German soldiers", she recalls. "I remember the dreadful whining sound made by those Russian bombs - we called them Stalinorgels (Stalin organs)."
> During a lull in the air raid, Ingeborg left the cellar and ran upstairs to look for a piece of string to use as a wick for a lamp. "Suddenly there were two Russians pointing their pistols at me," she says. "One of them forced me to expose myself and raped me, and then they changed places and the other one raped me as well. I thought I would die, that they would kill me."
> Ingeborg didn't talk about her ordeal at the time, or for decades afterwards - she said it was too difficult. "My mother liked to boast that her daughter hadn't been touched," she says.
> 
> 
> 
> IMAGE SOURCE,INGEBORG BULLERT
> Image caption,
> Ingeborg: "I thought I was going to die"
> But the rapes had affected women in households across Berlin. Ingeborg recalls that women between the ages of 15 and 55 were ordered to get tested for sexually transmitted diseases. "You needed the medical certificate to get the food stamps and I remember that all the doctors doing these certificates, had waiting rooms full of women."
> What was the scale of the rapes? The most often quoted number is a staggering 100,000 women in Berlin and two million on German territory. That figure - hotly debated - was extrapolated from scant surviving medical records.
> In a former munitions factory which now houses the State Archive, Martin Luchterhand shows me an armful of blue cardboard folders. These contain abortion records dated July to October 1945 from Neukolln, just one of Berlin's 24 districts - it's a small miracle that they survived intact.
> Abortions were illegal in Germany according to Article 218 of the penal code, but Luchterhand says "there was a small window for those women because of that special situation of the mass rapes in 1945".
> 
> 
> 
> IMAGE SOURCE,DOROTHY FEAVER
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMAGE SOURCE,DOROTHY FEAVER
> Altogether 995 pleas for abortion were approved by this one district office in Berlin office between June 1945 to 1946. The files contain over 1,000 fragile scraps of paper of different colours and sizes. In childish round handwriting, one girl testifies that she was assaulted in the living room of her home in front of her parents.
> We will probably never know the true scale of the rapes. Soviet military tribunals and other sources remain classified. The Russian parliament recently passed a law which says that anyone who denigrates Russia's record in World War Two could face fines and up to five years in prison.
> Vera Dubina, a young historian at the University of Humanities in Moscow, says she knew nothing of the rapes until a scholarship took her to Berlin. She later wrote a paper on the subject but struggled to get it published.
> "The Russian media reacted very aggressively," she says. "People only want to hear about our glorious victory in the Great Patriotic War and now it is getting harder to do proper research."
> 
> 
> 
> IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES
> It's the fate of history to be rewritten to suit the agenda of the present. That's why first-hand accounts are so valuable - from those who brave the subject now, in their old age, and from those younger voices who put pencil to paper on the spot.
> Vitaly Gelfand, son of the Red Army diarist Vladimir Gelfand, doesn't deny that many Soviet soldiers showed great bravery and sacrifice in World War Two - but that's not the whole story, he says.
> Recently Vitaly did an interview on Russian radio, which triggered some anti-Semitic trolling on social media, saying the diary's a fake and he should clear off to Israel (he has in fact lived in Berlin for the last 20 years). Yet he is hoping the diary will be published in Russia later this year. Parts of it have been translated into German and Swedish.
> "If people don't want to know the truth, they're just deluding themselves", he says. "The entire world understands it, Russia understands it and the people behind those new laws about defaming the past, even they understand it. We can't move forward until we look back."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Battle for Berlin (April - May 1945)​
> 
> 
> 
> IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES
> Image caption,
> Red Army soldier raises the Soviet flag over the Reichstag in Berlin
> 
> After the Red Army captured Vienna, Joseph Stalin ordered his forces on to Berlin, determined to take the city before US forces
> Two and a half million Red Army troops, 6,000 tanks and more than 40,000 artillery pieces were deployed, supported by thousands of aircraft
> After heavy fighting and substantial losses, by 21 April, Red Army soldiers had entered the outlying suburbs of Berlin
> In a staff conference on 22 April Adolf Hitler came close to admitting defeat but instead resolved to fight on, directing troops from his underground bunker
> As Soviet forces took the city, it is estimated that close to 100,000 women were raped by Red Army soldiers
> On 30 April Hitler killed himself and by 2 May the Reichstag had fallen
> World War Two: History's most savage and devastating war
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Rape of Berlin_ is on BBC World Service on Saturday 2 May at 18.06 BST and Sunday 3 May at 11.06 BST, or listen on _iPlayer
> _Subscribe to the _BBC News Magazine's email newsletter_ to get articles sent to your inbox._
> Related Topics​
> Germany
> Berlin
> World War Two


If Nazi Germany had not opened two fronts at the same time and attacked the Soviets, the Soviets would have watched from the sidelines, just like the division of eastern Europe, and then continued to expand their borders as conditions allowed. For the Soviets, this war was a vital necessity rather than the savior of Europe.

The two events that reversed the course of the war were the strategic mistake of the Nazis and the USA's involvement in the war with all its might on behalf of the global leadership, which had completed its preparations. If the USA had not been involved in the war, the war would have been much longer and bloodier. With the landing in Italy and and with the collapse of the fascist regime in Italy, the war was already deadlocked for the Nazis.

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## khansaheeb

These are the reality of war beyond pictures of tanks and Drones, Aircrafts and bombs and soldiers in smart uniforms when hatred overtakes humanity:- 
I guess the East is no better an example:-

What was the most inhumane thing ever done during a war?









What was the most inhumane thing ever done during a war?


10 people want answers to this question. Be the first to answer.




infoorb.quora.com




https://www.quora.com/profile/Dale-P-Lee
Dale P Lee


Lives in The United States of AmericaUpdated Jun 16
Any crime committed by the Japanese during World War II takes the cake. They left the Nazis as civilized. Where do I begin?
They bet on who managed to behead more civilians:




They sexually enslaved more than 100,000 women:






> The Japanese gagged this young woman to a chair for repeated attacks (New China News Agency).


They buried civilians alive in mass graves:




They practiced cannibalism on Australian prisoners of war:




They experimented on humans with lethal biological weapons (squad 731) resulting in more than 3,000 deaths, including children:




They caused famines in Vietnam and Indonesia:




All this, as a consequence, produced the death of approximately 5 million people, not counting combat deaths. The most horrible thing you can imagine, every possible evil that a human being can do to another human being, the Japanese did it.
Think about this every time you feel injustice about the bombs that Japan received.
The atomic bombings in Nagasaki and Hiroshima are a tragedy. I'm not saying the opposite. But it is one thing to sympathize, and quite another to put the Japanese as the Jews 2.0 of World War II.
The most terrible curse ever made and finally come true in the history of mankind
 The Tecumseh Curse or the Tippecanoe Curse, if known in English as the Curse of Tippecanoe is one of the most famous curses throughout h...
https://viralhubzone.blogspot.com/2022/06/the-most-terrible-curse-ever-made-and.html

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> More like either it's failed mechanically or sabotage.
> 
> It's equally possible as Russia is lacking of parts and cannot make them due to Western Sanction.



Some of the Il-76 are decades old.


----------



## sammuel

khansaheeb said:


> Barbarity of the West:-





khansaheeb said:


> I guess the East is no better an example:-



If you find the same thing happening East and West , if you see that even today with all the scientific advances , countries still solve their differences with violence , that means humanity as a whole needs to work on itself. 

.

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## Soldier35

Slovenia has provided Ukraine with M-80A infantry fighting vehicles. An echelon with 35 Yugoslav-made infantry fighting vehicles has already arrived in Ukraine. Even the newest production BMP M-80A is already over 30 years old, the vehicles have been removed from storage, as they were developed in the sixties and finished in the nineties. The Yugoslav BMP M-80A is a reworked copy of the Soviet BMP 1. The armored vehicle is armed with a 20-mm Hispano-Suiza HS.804 automatic cannon and there are problems with this, the cannon requires 20x110 mm shells, Ukraine and Russia do not have them. A 7.62 mm machine gun is paired with a cannon. The infantry fighting vehicle is equipped with ATGM 9M14 "Baby" developed in 1960.






The Ukrainian military has published the first video footage of the use of American M-142 Himars multiple launch rocket systems. The information is inaccurate, since it is impossible to establish the location from where the fire is being fired. The presented video frames show the launches of M-30A1 missiles, with a range of hitting targets up to 70 kilometers. Presumably, two M142 Himars MLRS, captured on video, were deployed in the south of Ukraine, in the Odessa region, while two more launchers are located in the central part of Ukraine.






The Russian Ministry of Defense showed the combat work of the crews of heavy flamethrower systems TOS-1A Solntsepek. After completing the combat mission, the crews of the TOS-1A "Solntsepyok" in the shortest possible time carry out a change of combat positions and promptly reload the installations. There are 24 thermobaric projectiles in the installation package. They are capable of covering an area of up to 40 thousand square meters, while destroying lightly armored vehicles and fortifications. after a 200-kilogram projectile hits the target, the thermobaric mixture dissipates in the air and explodes under enormous pressure, creating a temperature of 3000 degrees. TOS-1A "Sun" is a 2001 modification of the TOS-1 "Pinocchio" system developed back in 1980.






The base of the Kraken battalion, a Ukrainian territorial defense unit created from semi-criminal elements, was destroyed in Kharkiv by Russian artillery strikes.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540543564660310021

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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Not backing down is the reason WW1 and WW2 happened. Eventually things will escalate to the point of nuclear WW3 because neither side is willing to back down and make concession.
> 
> Eventually America will run out of artillery to give and then what? There will have to be a nuclear war.
> 
> Einstein once said the following and this will happen.
> 
> “I do not know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.”


Einstein is wrong. There is a more powerful weapon than thermonuclear. Antimatter. Just few kilos then good night. Not even rats, cockroach survive.


----------



## DF41

It is so refreshing to have back the filters I created.
To block out the bollocks and rubbish spewed by by Nuland and NED to be printed by 
Western beholdened MSMs
And regurgitated into here by their familiars and toadies.

A week having to plough through what I before would not have to see was almost a torture,
but then, luckily I am a masochist and I take that week as equivalent of wearing a hair shirt.


As said, I go enjoy my coffee and roses now













and smell roses

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> @Apollon @Akritas, what do you say about the Ukrainian military's crime here ?
> 
> @jhungary, give the lady a -ve rating too just like you gave five to me.



What crime?


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> What crime?



I tagged you for the vid but you didn't watch it ?


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> I tagged you for the vid but you didn't watch it ?



Nope, he is blocked. Tell me and i will judge


----------



## Akritas

jamahir said:


> @Apollon @Akritas, what do you say about the Ukrainian military's crime here ?


I do not watch the video either.


----------



## NotSure

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Poles are confused people. They are German wannabes.


They are anglo wannabes. They are so desperate to be "european", especially anglo, so they immigrate to GB to clean toilets at least. And then they brag about living on this shithole island.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

First footage of air launched Hermes air to air / air to ground NLOS missile, apparently fired from an Alligator chopper.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540578641205141506


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## NotSure

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Snake island is now under Ukranian control.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539582568600719362


Yeah, some dry gras fields burned down in the hot summer weather and you instantly start to masturbate to it.

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Nope, he is blocked. Tell me and i will judge



I will post the tweeted vid here and you judge :

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540379227677249537


Akritas said:


> I do not watch the video either.



Why ?


----------



## White and Green with M/S

Tai Hai Chen said:


> First footage of air launched Hermes air to air / air to ground NLOS missile, apparently fired from an Alligator chopper.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540578641205141506


Lol where this tweet say that hermes is air to air missile don't troll yourself Mr stupid


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

White and Green with M/S said:


> Lol where this tweet say that hermes is air to air missile don't troll yourself Mr stupid



Hermes missile is air launched version of Pantsir missile. It is multi role air to air / air to ground.


----------



## Akritas

jamahir said:


> I will post the tweeted vid here and you judge :
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540379227677249537
> 
> 
> Why ?


Because in the countries of the European Union access to Russian state channels and accounts has been banned.


----------



## White and Green with M/S

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Hermes missile is air launched version of Pantsir missile. It is multi role air to air / air to ground.


your brain has no cells its says its only ground attacking or guided missile not a bvr you fool


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

White and Green with M/S said:


> your brain has no cells its says its only ground attacking or guided missile not a bvr you fool



20 to 30 km range is BVR beyond visual range.


----------



## White and Green with M/S

Tai Hai Chen said:


> 20 to 30 km range is BVR beyond visual range.


Lol its a ground attack missile not bvr you fool


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> I will post the tweeted vid here and you judge :
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540379227677249537
> 
> 
> Why ?



Doesnt load. Say in 3 sentences


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

White and Green with M/S said:


> Lol its a ground attack missile not bvr you fool



comparison between LOS missile and NLOS missile


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540543564660310021

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540578641205141506


----------



## White and Green with M/S

Tai Hai Chen said:


> comparison between LOS missile and NLOS missile
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540543564660310021
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540578641205141506


You're super stupid


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

White and Green with M/S said:


> You're super stupid



Apparently 20 to 30 km range is BVR because I doubt any person can see beyond 20 km. Not even 20 20 vision eyes.


----------



## White and Green with M/S

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Apparently 20 to 30 km range is BVR because I doubt any person can see beyond 20 km. Not even 20 20 vision eyes.


Troll its not a BVR YOU FOOL LOOK IT GUIDENESS LASER BASED INFRARED BASED. ALL SHORT RANGE AIR TO AIR MISSILES HAVE A SEEKER OF INFRARED NO MODERN BVR HAVE LASER OR INFRARED SEEKER YOU BRAINLESS TROLL


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Nope, he is blocked. Tell me and i will judge





Akritas said:


> I do not watch the video either.





Akritas said:


> Because in the countries of the European Union access to Russian state channels and accounts has been banned.





Apollon said:


> Doesnt load. Say in 3 sentences



After the Russians take a settlement outside Lisichansk from Zelensky forces the RT reporter interviews a lady there who says that before the battle Zelensky troops were in a basement along with the lady's family and her neighbors. But when the battle started the lady's family went to their house to get water and her neighbors went across the street to get their things and then the lady heard shots. But she and her family did not go to find out the matter because the battle had begun. After the Russians took over, the lady and her family searched for their neighbors and found them dead. They had been executed by Zelensky troops who had shot the man in the head and his wife in the back. Zelensky troops would have clearly seen that these two people were civilians yet they executed them. This is just another of the many war crimes done by Zelensky government.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

They say Russians wrecked the bridge between Lisichansk and Severodonetsk using a chopper.

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> After the Russians take a settlment outside Lisichansk from Zelensky forces the RT reporter interviews a lady there who says that before the battle Zelensky troops were in a basement along with the lady's family and her neighbors. But when the battle started the lady's family went to their house to get water and her neighbors went across the street to get their things and then the lady heard shots. But she and her family did not go to find out the matter because the battle had begun. After the Russians took over the lady and her family searched for their neighbors and found them dead. They had been executed by Zelensky troops who had shot the man in the head and the his wife in the back. Zelensky troops could have clearly seen that these two people were civilians yet they executed them. This is just another of the many war crimes done by Zelensky government.



😅👍 Love it. Thank you for cheering me up with Prawda bullshit


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

khansaheeb said:


> So which tank is this?:-
> 
> View attachment 856593


That's for fording rivers...


----------



## kingQamaR

Russia is slowly grinding down the Ukrainian army. They are doing this by attacking in many different directions to keep them off balance. The longer this conflict drags on the weaker Ukraine becomes

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## jamahir

Apollon said:


> 😅👍 Love it. Thank you for cheering me up with Prawda bullshit



You love it ?????


----------



## Viet

kingQamaR said:


> Russia is slowly grinding down the Ukrainian army. They are doing this by attacking in many different directions to keep them off balance. The longer this conflict drags on the weaker Ukraine becomes


Scorch earth tactic. The Russians fight in old fashion in WW1 and 2. Amassing artillery in one place and shelling everything to rubble. Regardless of human lives soldiers, civilians, schools, kindergarten, animals or anything. Then coming tanks, troops, planes, killers, Chechens, looters. In terms of fire power the Russians are 10:1. That’s impossible for Ukraine army to keep positions forever, they can only hold on a while.

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> You love it ?????



Yes. Russian Propaganda is always so cheap


----------



## jamahir

Viet said:


> Scorch earth tactic. The Russians fight in old fashion in WW1 and 2. Amassing artillery in one place and shelling everything to rubble. Regardless of human lives soldiers, civilians, schools, kindergarten, animals or anything. Then coming tanks, troops, planes, killers, Chechens, looters. In terms of fire power the Russians are 10:1. That’s impossible for Ukraine army to keep positions forever, they can only hold on a while.



If the Russians "reduce everything to rubble" whom do their later "killers" come to kill and what do their "looters" loot ?



Apollon said:


> Yes. Russian Propaganda is always so cheap



1. "Cheap" shows your affinity with Capitalism where you think something of low money is inferior and to be insulted.

2. So you are doubting that lady ?


----------



## Viet

jamahir said:


> If the Russians "reduce everything to rubble" whom do their later "killers" come to kill and what do their "looters" loot ?
> 
> 
> 
> 1. "Cheap" shows your affinity with Capitalism where you think something of low money is inferior and to be insulted.
> 
> 2. So you are doubting that lady ?


Russians artillery fire 15,000 shells per day. That’s a lot. Russia strategy is destroying everything Ukraine. Putin’s hatred is bottomless. Those luckily survivors will be raped, killed, deported. Putin’s plan is nothing else than extermination of Ukraine. If you are with Putin then be it.


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> If the Russians "reduce everything to rubble" whom do their later "killers" come to kill and what do their "looters" loot ?
> 
> 
> 
> 1. "Cheap" shows your affinity with Capitalism where you think something of low money is inferior and to be insulted.
> 
> 2. So you are doubting that lady ?



Yup.


----------



## jamahir

Viet said:


> Russians artillery fire 15,000 shells per day. That’s a lot. Russia strategy is destroying everything Ukraine. Putin’s hatred is bottomless. Those luckily survivors will be raped, killed, deported. Putin’s plan is nothing else than extermination of Ukraine.



From where do you get such information ? Why didn't the Russian soldiers kill the Ukrainian lady I wrote of in this post ? Why isn't Russia carpet-bombing Kiev ?



Apollon said:


> Yup.



So the photo posted on this thread about three months ago of a dead Ukrainian civilian girl with her back branded with a swastika, it was done by Russians ?


----------



## Apollon

jamahir said:


> From where do you get such information ? Why didn't the Russian soldiers kill the Ukrainian lady I wrote of in this post ? Why isn't Russia carpet-bombing Kiev ?
> 
> 
> 
> So the photo posted on this thread about three months ago of a dead Ukrainian civilian girl with her back branded with a swastika, it was done by Russians ?



Its so cheap. I wonder why they didnt brandes Selensky Profile into her.


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Its so cheap. I wonder why they didnt brandes Selensky Profile into her.



Because usually it is the ideological symbol that is promoted. This is also evidenced from another example vid posted here of a Nazi who was caught by Russians and seeing his Nazi tattoos all over his body one Russian said to the others to check his name in their list of known Nazi elements and then he soiled himself. He didn't have Zelensky tattooed but his ideological symbols.

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Because usually it is the ideological symbol that is promoted. This is also evidenced from another example vid posted here of a Nazi who was caught by Russians and seeing his Nazi tattoos all over his body one Russian said to the others to check his name in their list of known Nazi elements and then he soiled himself. He didn't have Zelensky tattooed but his ideological symbols.



Priceless. Love your satire


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Priceless. Love your satire



Satire ? Where ?

I see that @aziqbal has returned. He of the "Mighty British Navy" and all that.

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## Akritas

jamahir said:


> After the Russians take a settlement outside Lisichansk from Zelensky forces the RT reporter interviews a lady there who says that before the battle Zelensky troops were in a basement along with the lady's family and her neighbors. But when the battle started the lady's family went to their house to get water and her neighbors went across the street to get their things and then the lady heard shots. But she and her family did not go to find out the matter because the battle had begun. After the Russians took over, the lady and her family searched for their neighbors and found them dead. They had been executed by Zelensky troops who had shot the man in the head and his wife in the back. Zelensky troops would have clearly seen that these two people were civilians yet they executed them. This is just another of the many war crimes done by Zelensky government.


I will speak to you directly: *any killing or execution of civilians or prisoners of war has been, is and will be a war crime*. 
This testimony could be reported to the competent international bodies, as was the case with the Russians in North Eastern Ucraine.* So when Russia leaves the UN and The Hague experts* free to do their job, then war crimes investigators will be relieved, because Russia does not allow foreign observers to enter the parts it controls.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540390533805260801

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## Viet

jamahir said:


> From where do you get such information ? Why didn't the Russian soldiers kill the Ukrainian lady I wrote of in this post ? Why isn't Russia carpet-bombing Kiev ?
> 
> 
> 
> So the photo posted on this thread about three months ago of a dead Ukrainian civilian girl with her back branded with a swastika, it was done by Russians ?


From where? From Putin himself.
There are people that never hide their intentions.

Pol Pot said he wanted a new nation based on peasants. So he killed all except peasants.

Putin said there is no such country as Ukraine or Ukraine people. The land belongs to Russia, he wants to liberate the land from those ukraine Nazi illegal occupation.

Putin does not hide his hatred towards the West, either. Few days prior invasion he ultimately demanded the US to withdraw from Europe. In his speech when declaring the war against Ukraine he put the nuclear force into high readiness. He is willing to risk a nuclear holocaust.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540629070240677894


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540581725981532161


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540668239059079169

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540668241793540096

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540668243911876608


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540635519788490753


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540311275279790083


----------



## jamahir

Akritas said:


> I will speak to you directly: *any killing or execution of civilians or prisoners of war has been, is and will be a war crime*.
> This testimony could be reported to the competent international bodies, as was the case with the Russians in North Eastern Ucraine.* So when Russia leaves the UN and The Hague experts* free to do their job, then war crimes investigators will be relieved, because Russia does not allow foreign observers to enter the parts it controls.



Good that you believe that a war crime has taken place but why does Russia have to leave for the Hague ( the International Criminal Court ) to decide if there has been a crime ? Didn't Russia call for neutral investigation of whatever happened in Bucha ? ICC visited Bucha two months ago so what has been the result ?


> The International Criminal Court’s (ICC) chief prosecutor on Wednesday visited the Ukrainian city of Bucha, near the capital Kyiv.
> 
> During his visit to Ukraine, Karim Khan also met with Ukraine’s Prosecutor General Iryna Venediktova in the capital Kyiv, where he lauded the "strong cooperation of Ukrainian authorities for independent ICC investigations,” the ICC said on Twitter.
> 
> Khan and Venediktova agreed at the meeting that it is critical to deepen engagement and strengthen partnerships in order to hold accountable those responsible for international crimes committed in Ukraine.
> 
> During his visit to Bucha, Khan told reporters: “Ukraine is a crime scene. We’re here because we have reasonable grounds to believe that crimes within the jurisdiction of the ICC are being committed. We have to pierce the fog of war to get to the truth.”
> 
> Khan made his first official visit to Ukraine on March 16 and spoke with Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy via videoconference.


Why did Khan meet Zelensky and not Putin ? And ICC is a suspect entity, a NATO entity. It created a case against Muammar Gaddafi when it was his country about to be invaded by 30+ government militaries of NATO and GCC and thousands of fighters of the NATO proxies Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood :


> ICC-01/11-01/11
> Pre-trial​
> Case closed
> 
> Abdullah Al-Senussi​
> Colonel in the Libyan Armed Forces and head of the Military Intelligence, at time of arrest warrant. Arrest warrant: 27 June 2011
> 
> Charges: two counts of crimes against humanity allegedly committed in 2011 in Libya. Case against Al-Senussi declared inadmissible before the ICC on 11 October 2013 due to national proceedings in Libya regarding the same crimes. Case also involved charges against Saif Al-Islam Gaddafi and Muammar Gaddafi in warrant issued on 27 June 2011. Case against Muammar Gaddafi was terminated on 22 November 2011, following his passing.


Did ICC initiate cases against George Bush jr, Tony B'liar, Obomba, Camoron, Killary Kill-in-tons, Sarkozy, Macron etc for their invasions, genocide, war crimes and regime change programs in Iraq, Libya, Syria and Venezuela ? Bush jr and B'liar has an arrest warrant against them issued by the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission in 2011 for their invasion of Iraq.

So what is your opinion ?



Viet said:


> From where? From Putin himself.
> There are people that never hide their intentions.
> 
> Pol Pot said he wanted a new nation based on peasants. So he killed all except peasants.
> 
> Putin said there is no such country as Ukraine or Ukraine people. The land belongs to Russia, he wants to liberate the land from those ukraine Nazi illegal occupation.
> 
> Putin does not hide his hatred towards the West, either. Few days prior invasion he ultimately demanded the US to withdraw from Europe. In his speech when declaring the war against Ukraine he put the nuclear force into high readiness. He is willing to risk a nuclear holocaust.



You didn't answer my simple point : Why hasn't Russia carpet-bombed Kiev and the rest of Ukraine ?



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540311275279790083



Sad if this really happened and is not acting like done by NATO proxies the White Helmets in Syria. What is your view on this post of mine, a war crime done by Zelensky / Ukrainian soldiers ?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540625992577945601

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## Viet

jamahir said:


> Good that you believe that a war crime has taken place but why does Russia have to leave for the Hague ( the International Criminal Court ) to decide if there has been a crime ? Didn't Russia call for neutral investigation of whatever happened in Bucha ? ICC visited Bucha two months ago so what has been the result ?
> 
> Why did Khan meet Zelensky and not Putin ? And ICC is a suspect entity, a NATO entity. It created a case against Muammar Gaddafi when it was his country about to be invaded by 30+ government militaries of NATO and GCC and thousands of fighters of the NATO proxies Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood :
> 
> Did ICC initiate cases against George Bush jr, Tony B'liar, Obomba, Camoron, Killary Kill-in-tons, Sarkozy, Macron etc for their invasions, genocide, war crimes and regime change programs in Iraq, Libya, Syria and Venezuela ? Bush jr and B'liar has an arrest warrant against them issued by the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission in 2011 for their invasion of Iraq.
> 
> So what is your opinion ?
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't answer my simple point : Why hasn't Russia carpet-bombed Kiev and the rest of Ukraine ?
> 
> 
> 
> Sad if this really happened and is not acting like done by NATO proxies the White Helmets in Syria. What is your view on this post of mine, a war crime done by Zelensky / Ukrainian soldiers ?


Why Russo airforce not carpet bombing Kiew? Why don’t you not ask Putin? Bombing a defended major city is not an easy task unless you want to commit suicide. Russia needs hundreds of bombers, thousands of supporting aircraft as fighters, radar controllers. tankers. That’s not kindergarten.
The US carpet bombing Hanoi at Christmas 1972.
Several hundreds of B52 bombers, 6 aircraft carriers.
Does Russia have similar capability? No.
Putin must consider the threat of NATO.


----------



## jamahir

Viet said:


> Why Russo airforce not carpet bombing Kiew? Why don’t you not ask Putin? Bombing a defended major city is not an easy task unless you want to commit suicide. Russia needs hundreds of bombers, thousands of supporting aircraft as fighters, radar controllers. tankers. That’s not kindergarten.
> The US carpet bombing Hanoi at Christmas 1972.
> Several hundreds of B52 bombers, 6 aircraft carriers.
> Does Russia have similar capability? No.
> Putin must consider the threat of NATO.



I am not much conversant with military technologies but I am sure some units of the below bomb over Kiev would do it, delivered by the Tu-160 White Swan bomber that can fly at 16 kms altitude :


> In September 2007, Russia exploded the largest thermobaric weapon ever made. Its yield was reportedly greater than the smallest dial-a-yield nuclear weapons at their lowest settings.[41][42] Russia named this particular ordnance the "Father of All Bombs" in response to the American-developed Massive Ordnance Air Blast (MOAB) bomb, which has the backronym "Mother of All Bombs" and once held the title of the most powerful non-nuclear weapon in history.[43] The Russian bomb contains a charge of approximately 7 tons of a liquid fuel, such as pressurized ethylene oxide, mixed with energy-rich nanoparticles, such as aluminum, surrounding a high explosive burster that when detonated created an explosion equivalent to 39.9 tons of TNT.


So why is Russia not doing it ?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540625777808506880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540624114364387329

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/154062654559272960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540617673553362945

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540683229287665664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540679320762548224


jamahir said:


> I am not much conversant with military technologies but I am sure some units of the below bomb over Kiev would do it, delivered by the Tu-160 White Swan bomber that can fly at 16 kms altitude :
> 
> So why is Russia not doing it ?



Russians are humane. Russia can simply bomb the dams on the Dnipr river and drown millions of Ukrainian civilians.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540635728719147010


----------



## Viet

jamahir said:


> I am not much conversant with military technologies but I am sure some units of the below bomb over Kiev would do it, delivered by the Tu-160 White Swan bomber that can fly at 16 kms altitude :
> 
> So why is Russia not doing it ?


Why Russia not doing? Because Russia can’t. Where are Russian analog bombers to B52? Putin seems not wanting to risk those few strategic bombers over Kiew. Those Russo bombers fire long range cruise missiles towards Kiew instead, without leaving Russia airspace.


----------



## jamahir

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/154062654559272960



Who are in the truck with the USSR / Communist flag ?



Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russians are humane. Russia can simply bomb the dams on the Dnipr river and drown millions of Ukrainian civilians.



Ah.



Viet said:


> Why Russia not doing? Because Russia can’t. Where are Russian analog bombers to B52? Putin seems not wanting to risk those few strategic bombers over Kiew. Those Russo bombers fire long range cruise missiles towards Kiew instead, without leaving Russia airspace.



The Tu-160 is the analog. The B-52 can carry 31.5 tons of armament and the Tu-160 can carry 45 tons of armament, much more than the B-52. As I said the Tu-160 can fly at 16 kms altitude and maybe it can evade Zelensky / NATO SAMs. There are 18 Tu-160s in service with Russia so again, I am sure a few "Father of all bombs" over Kiev's important places will do but as Tai Hai Chen said, the Russians might consider that brutal to the civilian population. Russia is unlike NATO which does this :

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## MeFishToo

jamahir said:


> Who are in the truck with the USSR / Communist flag ?
> 
> 
> 
> Ah.
> 
> 
> 
> The Tu-160 is the analog. The B-52 can carry 31.5 tons of armament and the Tu-160 can carry 45 tons of armament, much more than the B-52. As I said the Tu-160 can fly at 16 kms altitude and maybe it can evade Zelensky / NATO SAMs. There are 18 Tu-160s in service with Russia so again, I am sure a few "Father of all bombs" over Kiev's important places will do but as Tai Hai Chen said, the Russians might consider that brutal to the civilian population. Russia is unlike NATO which does this :


There are like a thousend pictures like this as a result of russian bombs hitting ukrainian cities. Its ridiculous showing those pictures claiming NATO is brutal unlike Russia.

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## jamahir

MeFishToo said:


> There are like a thousend pictures like this as a result of russian bombs hitting ukrainian cities. Its ridiculous showing those pictures claiming NATO is brutal unlike Russia.



Yeah ? It wasn't Russia that was bombing the compound of the internationalist revolutionary and real world leader Muammar Gaddafi in 2011 ( in order to assassinate him, a leader of a sovereign country ) and shamelessly showing those gun cam vids to Indian air force officials to entice them to purchase the aircraft. It wasn't Russia that genocided one million North Koreans from 1950-53 under the "UNO" flag. I can quote more examples.

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## MeFishToo

jamahir said:


> Yeah ? It wasn't Russia that was bombing the compound of the internationalist revolutionary and real world leader Muammar Gaddafi in 2011 ( in order to assassinate him, a leader of a sovereign country ) and shamelessly showing those gun cam vids to Indian air force officials to entice them to purchase the aircraft. It wasn't Russia that genocided one million North Koreans from 1950-53 under the "UNO" flag. I can quote more examples.


I dont care about your history lessons. It doesnt change the fact that Russia is bombing civilians and being as brutal as they please with zero regards to the ukrainians. They want every single ukrainian opposing Russia to leave the area they intend to annex, leaving room for yet another period of russification outside russian borders. Simple as that.

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## Mahabahu kaunteya

One good thing about this war is the artillery impact videos, there were not such vidoes before but now there are a lot of it

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## Hassan Al-Somal

How to spin a massive defeat as if it is a splendid victory. ROFL


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540620380234285059

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540699622502547456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540698415188873216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540696913162383365

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540709476956655616

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540692198303227905

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540693260317753345

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## Primus

Apollon said:


> Russian IL -76 bound for Ukraine to deliver weapons.....miracously catched fire after take off and crashed into a city 200km away from Moskow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats best scenario. Destroy them still on russian soil.
> 
> 
> What you think? Javelin? Stugna?
> 
> 
> @jhungary @oberschlesier @jamahir @zartosht


During a training flight without cargo, the crew of the Il-76 noticed an engine malfunction and decided to land on the ground. As a result of the crash of Il-76, according to preliminary information, four people died in the area of Mikhailovsky highway in the city of Ryazan. Five more with injuries of varying severity are in medical institutions in the city of Ryazan.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540691781238435845

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540691156660498435


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540709476956655616





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540687099367759872

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Chechen warriors vs Ukrainian forces + Polish mercenaries


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540684370226384896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540390533805260801

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540684560001732608

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## Viet

jamahir said:


> Who are in the truck with the USSR / Communist flag ?
> 
> 
> 
> Ah.
> 
> 
> 
> The Tu-160 is the analog. The B-52 can carry 31.5 tons of armament and the Tu-160 can carry 45 tons of armament, much more than the B-52. As I said the Tu-160 can fly at 16 kms altitude and maybe it can evade Zelensky / NATO SAMs. There are 18 Tu-160s in service with Russia so again, I am sure a few "Father of all bombs" over Kiev's important places will do but as Tai Hai Chen said, the Russians might consider that brutal to the civilian population. Russia is unlike NATO which does this :


Is Tu160 ever used in carpet bombing? Or any bomb run? Ok anyway people will welcome. Will be interesting if Putin lost all strategic bombers. He will stand naked. One leg of nuclear triads.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540709476956655616





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540684156568346626

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## jamahir

MeFishToo said:


> I dont care about your history lessons.



You should because you will know the criminality of the North Atlantic Terrorist Organization since its establishment 74 years ago.



MeFishToo said:


> It doesnt change the fact that Russia is bombing civilians and being as brutal as they please with zero regards to the ukrainians.



It is the opposite. Brutality is what the Zelensky forces do. Please read this post of mine.



MeFishToo said:


> They want every single ukrainian opposing Russia to leave the area they intend to annex, leaving room for yet another period of russification outside russian borders. Simple as that.



Russia just wanted deNazification and non-placement of NATO nuclear weapons. Was that that hard to do ?



Viet said:


> Is Tu160 ever used in carpet bombing? Or any bomb run?



As I said, I am not much conversant with military technology but it must be possible to drop a few "Father of all bombs" on Kiev using the Tu-160 but the question is why will they.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540682540570202113
Briefings from the Russian MOD


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540647208302804992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540646210435948544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540640527711932416

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## aziqbal

how is Ukrainian artillery getting so accurate hits on the Russians at the start of the war ?

Ukraine is using home made drones with home made lasers 

the laser guided shells are then used to hit the targets even if the target moves as long as the laser is "lighting" up the tank the shell will find its target 

as always with Russia they adapted this technique and now using it against Ukraine 

Russia always adapts even after catastrophic losses Russia always does win

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## Apollon

Huffal said:


> During a training flight without cargo, the crew of the Il-76 noticed an engine malfunction and decided to land on the ground. As a result of the crash of Il-76, according to preliminary information, four people died in the area of Mikhailovsky highway in the city of Ryazan. Five more with injuries of varying severity are in medical institutions in the city of Ryazan.



Aircraft destroyed, 4 enemies dead, 5 taken out for long time, propably lifelong. Sounds good



jamahir said:


> You should because you will know the criminality of the North Atlantic Terrorist Organization since its establishment 74 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> It is the opposite. Brutality is what the Zelensky forces do. Please read this post of mine.
> 
> 
> 
> Russia just wanted deNazification and non-placement of NATO nuclear weapons. Was that that hard to do ?
> 
> 
> 
> As I said, I am not much conversant with military technology but it must be possible to drop a few "Father of all bombs" on Kiev using the Tu-160 but the question is why will they.



Fun fact, what Russia wants is irrelevant outside Russia.


----------



## Soldier35

The Russian Ministry of Defense showed the firing of the Kornet ATGM mobile crew at the positions of the Ukrainian army. Russian intelligence has revealed a camouflaged firing position of Ukrainian soldiers at an abandoned enterprise. Having received the task, the Russian mobile crew arrived in the designated area, deployed weapons and, according to the received target designations, fired from the Kornet ATGM.

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540709476956655616



Interesting - it seems that Ukraine is taking out military supplies and resources ahead of it counter-attack. Combined with Russian logistics - this will start to become a problem for the Russians as Ukraines gets more HIMARs and trains up more people to use it.

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## jamahir

Viet said:


> Is Tu160 ever used in carpet bombing? Or any bomb run? Ok anyway people will welcome. Will be interesting if Putin lost all strategic bombers. He will stand naked. One leg of nuclear triads.



It was in January or in early February that a Russian nuclear missile submarine was not far from the coast of USA. And it was not so long ago when Russia readied some of its road-mobile ICBM fleet through a practise. And then the Russian threat of using the Poseidon undersea nuclear weapon against Britain. So not everything may rest on strategic bombing nowadays.

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## MeFishToo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Chechen warriors vs Ukrainian forces + Polish mercenaries
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540684370226384896


Chechen special forces…?


----------



## Primus

Apollon said:


> Aircraft destroyed, 4 enemies dead, 5 taken out for long time, propably lifelong. Sounds good


When war comes to your nation, dont act surprised when people celebrate the deaths of your soldiers and civillains

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## 925boy

stop trolling with all this stupid talk!


Viet said:


> Is Tu160 ever used in carpet bombing? Or any bomb run? Ok anyway people will welcome. Will be interesting if Putin lost all strategic bombers. He will stand naked. One leg of nuclear triads.

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## MeFishToo

jamahir said:


> You should because you will know the criminality of the North Atlantic Terrorist Organization since its establishment 74 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> It is the opposite. Brutality is what the Zelensky forces do. Please read this post of mine.
> 
> 
> 
> Russia just wanted deNazification and non-placement of NATO nuclear weapons. Was that that hard to do ?
> 
> 
> 
> As I said, I am not much conversant with military technology but it must be possible to drop a few "Father of all bombs" on Kiev using the Tu-160 but the question is why will they.


In all honesty, I dont care about RT reports. Its nothing but a propaganda tool for Putin, spreading lies and disinformation. You would know if you come upon a story on RT about a subject you have knowlegde about.

What NATO once did, in your opinion, doesnt excuse Russia invading Ukraine. And Russia fabricating scenarios in Ukraine and then acting upon them doesnt either. Ukraine is not run by nazies, and even it was, its none if Russias business, and NATO wasnt going to place nuclear weapons in Ukraine. Its just a lame excuse by Russia. They were against Ukraine joining NATO because it would prevent them from annexing territory in the future, which is why Russia instigated an oprising, which failed and then they prematurely invaded Ukraine.

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## bhola record

MeFishToo said:


> Chechen special forces…?
> View attachment 856707


i wouldn't call them that.

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## Apollon

Huffal said:


> When war comes to your nation, dont act surprised when people celebrate the deaths of your soldiers and civillains



Death of enemies is always something to celebrate.



jamahir said:


> It was in January or in early February that a Russian nuclear missile submarine was not far from the coast of USA. And it was not so long when Russia readied some of its road-mobile ICBM fleet through a practise. And then the Russian threat of using the Poseidon undersea nuclear weapon against Britain. So not everything may rest on strategic bombing nowadays.



Dude how often does it have to be told to you? Undersea nuclear weapons dont work. There is no wave, no tsunami, nothing. Nuclear bombs are too weak to move big enough amounts of water to create any noticeable wave.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540480974219354112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540480978719752192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540481018850836485

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540481022772535296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540481025259749376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540481026459373569

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## retaxis

Apollon said:


> Death of enemies is always something to celebrate.
> 
> 
> 
> Dude how often does it have to be told to you? Undersea nuclear weapons dont work. There is no wave, no tsunami, nothing. Nuclear bombs are too weak to move big enough amounts of water to create any noticeable wave.


Yes and West becoming minority majority is the best thing to celebrate haha. whites replaced faster then you can take them out in war lol

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## Apollon

retaxis said:


> Yes and West becoming minority majority is the best thing to celebrate haha. whites replaced faster then you can take them out in war lol



Amigo, the amount of non europeans in europe is below 4%. 

i find it also amusing that you wish end to something that build up your entire life. Without west it means back to stoneage for your people. 


After all we are the only ones that matter.


----------



## Akritas

jamahir said:


> Good that you believe that a war crime has taken place but why does Russia have to leave for the Hague ( the International Criminal Court ) to decide if there has been a crime ? Didn't Russia call for neutral investigation of whatever happened in Bucha ? ICC visited Bucha two months ago so what has been the result ?
> 
> Why did Khan meet Zelensky and not Putin ? And ICC is a suspect entity, a NATO entity. It created a case against Muammar Gaddafi when it was his country about to be invaded by 30+ government militaries of NATO and GCC and thousands of fighters of the NATO proxies Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood :
> 
> Did ICC initiate cases against George Bush jr, Tony B'liar, Obomba, Camoron, Killary Kill-in-tons, Sarkozy, Macron etc for their invasions, genocide, war crimes and regime change programs in Iraq, Libya, Syria and Venezuela ? Bush jr and B'liar has an arrest warrant against them issued by the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission in 2011 for their invasion of Iraq.
> 
> So what is your opinion ?


Be careful to see our difference:* I condemned every action, as I described it,* you answer with haha smiles and then you ask me for my opinion. 

So let's get to the basics: do you condemn any war criminal actions, either by Russia or by Ukraine?
If so, how will those who did it be convicted?
Do you know any other way, than that of the UN and The Hague protocol?

Whether you do not accept them is another matter. However, a Russian war criminal will certainly not be tried properly by either a Russian judge or a Ukrainian.

Finalyy, do not put other issues, because I know the game of argumentation better than you think. We are talking only about what is happening in Ukraine.


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Dude how often does it have to be told to you? Undersea nuclear weapons dont work. There is no wave, no tsunami, nothing. Nuclear bombs are too weak to move big enough amounts of water to create any noticeable wave.



And I have replied to you earlier.

1. Have you seen multiple Poseidon tests visually or otherwise ?

2. Even if not a tsunami then certainly radiation carried onto European land and wind.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540480974219354112
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540480978719752192
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540481018850836485
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540481022772535296
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540481025259749376
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540481026459373569



Apollon, Akritas



Akritas said:


> So let's get to the basics: do you condemn any war criminal actions, either by Russia or by Ukraine?



I condemn of course but can you post here pages upon pages of Russian war crimes in the same manner that Zelensky regime war crimes can be posted ?



Akritas said:


> Do you know any other way, than that of the UN and The Hague protocol?



As I said, the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission must be reopened.



Akritas said:


> Finalyy, do not put other issues, because I know the game of argumentation better than you think. We are talking only about what is happening in Ukraine.



It was you who brought in the ICC in context of Ukraine and I replied about its supposed investigation for Bucha and I told you that this entity is suspect because it is just a NATO front.

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## MeFishToo

jamahir said:


> I condemn of course but can you post here pages upon pages of Russian war crimes in the same manner that Zelensky regime war crimes can be posted ?


Russia war crimes Ukraine
Not that it matters. You will just deny it.


----------



## Viet

jamahir said:


> You should because you will know the criminality of the North Atlantic Terrorist Organization since its establishment 74 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> It is the opposite. Brutality is what the Zelensky forces do. Please read this post of mine.
> 
> 
> 
> Russia just wanted deNazification and non-placement of NATO nuclear weapons. Was that that hard to do ?
> 
> 
> 
> As I said, I am not much conversant with military technology but it must be possible to drop a few "Father of all bombs" on Kiev using the Tu-160 but the question is why will they.


You are funny. It was you, who asked why Russia aviation doesn’t carpet bombing Kiew. If Putin has 100 bombers to spare then he would certainly do it, but he has only 17 something Tu bombers. He cannot risk losing a nuclear triad.

As for other means including weapons of mass destruction it’s not a question of If but When he does it. Putin never rules out nuclear weapons.
Ukraine must prepare for that scenario what they are going to do if hundreds thousands Ukraine die at an instant.
Would they bring the war to Russia?
Would they quickly build nuclear bombs and retaliate?


----------



## Akritas

jamahir said:


> Apollon, Akritas
> 
> I condemn of course but can you post here pages upon pages of Russian war crimes in the same manner that Zelensky regime war crimes can be posted ?
> 
> It was you who brought in the ICC in context of Ukraine and I replied about its supposed investigation for Bucha and I told you that this entity is suspect because it is just a NATO front.


But you do not answer me, *how the war crimes investigation will be done.*
You started it by bringing me a video from Russian state television (which I can not watch).
And I answered you what is the way, and you disagree, the UN and ICC protocols.
So tell me your suggested procedural way.

The Bucha massacre is still under invstigation, there is a *Independent International Commission of Inquiry on Ukraine* is a United Nations commission of inquiry established by the United Nations Human Rights Council, members and task force are from all the world.



Viet said:


> You are funny. It was you, who asked why Russia aviation doesn’t carpet bombing Kiew.



Did he mention such a thing? You fill in the puzzle piece I was missing.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540744132783513600

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540743099898507264


----------



## _Nabil_

Up to 80 fighters from Poland killed by Russian troops: Defense ministry


Russia said on Saturday its troops have killed “up to 80” Polish fighters in “precision strikes” in eastern Ukraine.“Up to 80 Polish mercenaries, 20




www.google.com





Up to 80 fighters from Poland killed by Russian troops: Defense ministry

AFP, Moscow
Published: 25 June ,2022: 02:40 PM GST
Updated: 25 June ,2022: 03:02 PM GST

Russia said on Saturday its troops have killed “up to 80” Polish fighters in “precision strikes” in eastern Ukraine.

“Up to 80 Polish mercenaries, 20 armored combat vehicles and eight Grad multiple rocket launchers were destroyed in precision strikes on the Megatex zinc factory in Konstantinovka” in the Donetsk region, the Russian defense ministry said in a statement, which could not be independently verified.

The region, claimed by Russia, has been the theatre of combat since Moscow began its offensive in Ukraine in late February.

The Russian ministry did not state when the strikes took place. In its statement, the ministry added that “more than 300 Ukrainian troops and foreign mercenaries as well as 35 heavy weapons were destroyed in the space of a day in Mykolaiv,” a Black Sea city in southern Ukraine.

Russia describes as “mercenaries” foreign volunteers fighting with Ukrainian forces.









Ukraine reports 'massive' attack from Belarus


Ukraine said it came under "massive bombardment" Saturday (25 June) from neighbouring Belarus, a Russian ally not officially involved in the conflict, the day after announcing a retreat from the strategic city of Severodonetsk.




www.euractiv.com

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> And I have replied to you earlier.
> 
> 1. Have you seen multiple Poseidon tests visually or otherwise ?
> 
> 2. Even if not a tsunami then certainly radiation carried onto European land and wind.
> 
> 
> 
> Apollon, Akritas
> 
> 
> 
> I condemn of course but can you post here pages upon pages of Russian war crimes in the same manner that Zelensky regime war crimes can be posted ?
> 
> 
> 
> As I said, the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission must be reopened.
> 
> 
> 
> It was you who brought in the ICC in context of Ukraine and I replied about its supposed investigation for Bucha and I told you that this entity is suspect because it is just a NATO front.




Dude let it explain to me in a way that even you understand it. To generate a tsunami energies are needed in the magnitude pf millions of nuclear bombs. I dont need to see the poseidon test to know it does not have the power to achieve that. Its called physics.


Some here completly overestimate nuclear weapons.


----------



## _Nabil_

UPDATE 2-Putin promises Belarus nuclear-capable missiles to counter 'aggressive' West


Russian President Vladimir Putin on Saturday told his counterpart from Belarus that Moscow would supply Minsk with missile systems capable of carrying nuclear weapons, the Russian foreign ministry said. At a meeting with Putin in St Petersburg, Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko expressed...



www.google.com






MOSCOW, June 25 (Reuters) - Russia will supply Belarus with Iskander-M missile systems within a few months, Russian President Vladimir Putin told a televised meeting with Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko on Saturday.

At the meeting, held in St Petersburg, Lukashenko told Putin that Belarus was concerned by the "aggressive", "confrontational" and "repulsive" policies of its neighbours Lithuania and Poland.


He asked Putin to help Belarus mount a "symmetrical response" to what he said were nuclear-armed flights by the U.S.-led NATO alliance near Belarus's borders.

"Minsk must be ready for anything, even the use of serious weaponry to defend our fatherland from Brest to Vladivostok," he said, putting Belarus and its close ally Russia under one umbrella.

In particular, he asked for help to make Belarus's military aircraft nuclear-capable.

Putin said he saw no need at present for a symmetrical response, but that Belarus's Russian-built Su-25 jets could if necessary be upgraded in Russian factories.

He did, however, promise to supply the Iskander-M, a mobile guided missile system codenamed "SS-26 Stone" by NATO, which replaced the Soviet "Scud". Its two guided missiles have a range of up to 500 km (300 miles) and can carry conventional or nuclear warheads.

Tensions between Russia and the West have soared since Moscow sent troops into Ukraine four months ago, alleging among other things that NATO planned to admit Ukraine and use it as a platform to threaten Russia.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540637220981424128

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## jamahir

MeFishToo said:


> Russia war crimes Ukraine
> Not that it matters. You will just deny it.



Ah, Bucha again. And Sumy city was mentioned. Let me tell you that during the early days of the war there were almost 1300 Indian students stuck in Sumy which is close to the Russian border. They were extremely disappointed that the Indian government wasn't doing anything about their evacuation and they didn't trust the government of the NATO poster boy of humanitarianism, Zelensky, so they decided to walk to Russia and also it was Humanitarianism Poster Boy Zelensky who refused to allow Russia to create a humanitarian corridor for the students' evacuation :


> Sumy, located near the Russian border and around 350 km east of Ukrainian capital Kyiv, has seen heavy fighting since the invasion. Today, at least nine people, including two children, died in an air strike in the city.
> 
> The students have been waiting for evacuation for days. On Saturday, unable to cope any longer with the bitter cold, depleting food and water supplies, the students shared videos saying they have decided to begin the risky journey to the Russian border 50 km away.
> 
> But they were dissuaded by the government, which contacted them and asked that they "avoid unnecessary risks".
> 
> A plan to evacuate them yesterday fell through as Ukraine rejected a Russian plan for a humanitarian corridor to Russia and Belarus.
> 
> Soon after, Prime Minister Narendra Modi held discussions with Russian President Vladimir Putin and Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky on ways to begin the stalled evacuation process of the Indian students from Sumy.





Viet said:


> You are funny. It was you, who asked why Russia aviation doesn’t carpet bombing Kiew. If Putin has 100 bombers to spare then he would certainly do it, but he has only 17 something Tu bombers. He cannot risk losing a nuclear triad.
> 
> As for other means including weapons of mass destruction it’s not a question of If but When he does it. Putin never rules out nuclear weapons.
> Ukraine must prepare for that scenario what they are going to do if hundreds thousands Ukraine die at an instant.
> Would they bring the war to Russia?



Sure, Putin / Russia doesn't rule out nuclear weapons but there must be some red line for Russia.



Viet said:


> Would they quickly build nuclear bombs and retaliate?



How quickly ?



Akritas said:


> But you do not answer me, *how the war crimes investigation will be done.*



👇 


jamahir said:


> As I said, the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission must be reopened.





Akritas said:


> You started it by bringing me a video from Russian state television (which I can not watch).



You cannot watch ? But I have transcribed that vid for you.



Akritas said:


> The Bucha massacre is still under invstigation, there is a *Independent International Commission of Inquiry on Ukraine* is a United Nations commission of inquiry established by the United Nations Human Rights Council, members and task force are from all the world.



Still under investigation ? But according to this Wikipedia page linked by @MeFishToo in this post that same UNO body and other NATO-aligned bodies have already decided that Russia is to blame.



Apollon said:


> Dude let it explain to me in a way that even you understand it. To generate a tsunami energies are needed in the magnitude pf millions of nuclear bombs. I dont need to see the poseidon test to know it does not have the power to achieve that. Its called physics.
> 
> 
> Some here completly overestimate nuclear weapons.



Point# 2 then. Makes European coast and maybe interior unliveable as well.

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## Apollon

jamahir said:


> Ah, Bucha again. And Sumy city was mentioned. Let me tell you that during the early days of the war there were almost 1300 Indian students stuck in Sumy which is close to the Russian border. They were extremely disappointed that the Indian government wasn't doing anything about their evacuation and they didn't trust the government of the NATO poster boy of humanitarianism, Zelensky, so they decided to walk to Russia and also it was Humanitarianism Poster Boy Zelensky who refused to allow Russia to create a humanitarian corridor for the students' evacuation :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, Putin / Russia doesn't rule out nuclear weapons but there must be some red line for Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> How quickly ?
> 
> 
> 
> 👇
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You cannot watch ? But I have transcribed that vid for you.
> 
> 
> 
> Still under investigation ? But according to this Wikipedia page linked by @MeFishToo in this post that same UNO body and other NATO-aligned bodies have already decided that Russia is to blame.
> 
> 
> 
> Point# 2 then. Makes European coast and maybe interior unliveable as well.



Is french polynesia or nevada unliveable? Last time i checked Las Vegas does fine and right near it dozens of nukes were tested. 


Hiroshima does great. 

And btw if Europe coast and interior would be unlieveable, we would destroy russia as well. You know what nukes are gold at? Meltng russian cities to glass.


----------



## jamahir

Apollon said:


> Is french polynesia or nevada unliveable? Last time i checked Las Vegas does fine and right near it dozens of nukes were tested.
> 
> 
> Hiroshima does great.
> 
> And btw if Europe coast and interior would be unlieveable, we would destroy russia as well. You know what nukes are gold at? Meltng russian cities to glass.



I can post at least one picture from Iraq but I am sleepy so will log-off and reply tomorrow.

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## MeFishToo

jamahir said:


> Ah, Bucha again. And Sumy city was mentioned. Let me tell you that during the early days of the war there were almost 1300 Indian students stuck in Sumy which is close to the Russian border. They were extremely disappointed that the Indian government wasn't doing anything about their evacuation and they didn't trust the government of the NATO poster boy of humanitarianism, Zelensky, so they decided to walk to Russia and also it was Humanitarianism Poster Boy Zelensky who refused to allow Russia to create a humanitarian corridor for the students' evacuation :


So you basically just ignored the russian war crimes you were asking for, and then blamed Ukraine for a situation Russia was responsible for.


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

'The Russians are our friends': The civilians refusing to evacuate Ukraine's Lysychansk​

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540691467370262529

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540756325457698816

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540747522200612865

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## ZeGerman

jamahir said:


> Ah, Bucha again. And Sumy city was mentioned. Let me tell you that during the early days of the war there were almost 1300 Indian students stuck in Sumy which is close to the Russian border. They were extremely disappointed that the Indian government wasn't doing anything about their evacuation and they didn't trust the government of the NATO poster boy of humanitarianism, Zelensky, so they decided to walk to Russia and also it was Humanitarianism Poster Boy Zelensky who refused to allow Russia to create a humanitarian corridor for the students' evacuation :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, Putin / Russia doesn't rule out nuclear weapons but there must be some red line for Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> How quickly ?
> 
> 
> 
> 👇
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You cannot watch ? But I have transcribed that vid for you.
> 
> 
> 
> Still under investigation ? But according to this Wikipedia page linked by @MeFishToo in this post that same UNO body and other NATO-aligned bodies have already decided that Russia is to blame.
> 
> 
> 
> Point# 2 then. Makes European coast and maybe interior unliveable as well.


You are hilarious.

Everything on russia/soviet misconduct and you simply claim its “fake news”
Yet your russian propaganda channels are supposedly showing the “truth” about natos 76 years of terror?

but why all eastern european countries run towards Nato?? Hmmm?
And despite USA’s flaws, atleast south korea is better off then your communist paradise north korea.
Same for all the european nations across the iron curtain.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540747522200612865


Wonder with what type of artillery they took them out. 

Always good if the orcs lose some serious weapons. Ukranian villages/cities can have some relief.

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## K_Bin_W

Looks like Germany will be facing crises.. max 75 days gas reserves...

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ZeGerman said:


> Wonder with what type of artillery they took them out.
> 
> Always good if the orcs lose some serious weapons. Ukranian villages/cities can have some relief.



Russians are humane. Russians never shell civilians. Now the gloves are coming off. Time for Mi-28N/NM to slaughter Kiev regime artillery.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

K_Bin_W said:


> Looks like Germany will be facing crises.. max 75 days gas reserves...



This is an Indian propaganda channel.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540744132783513600

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## Viet

Akritas said:


> But you do not answer me, *how the war crimes investigation will be done.*
> You started it by bringing me a video from Russian state television (which I can not watch).
> And I answered you what is the way, and you disagree, the UN and ICC protocols.
> So tell me your suggested procedural way.
> 
> The Bucha massacre is still under invstigation, there is a *Independent International Commission of Inquiry on Ukraine* is a United Nations commission of inquiry established by the United Nations Human Rights Council, members and task force are from all the world.
> 
> 
> 
> Did he mention such a thing? You fill in the puzzle piece I was missing.


Yes he repeatedly asked me I just searched his question. He is frustrated. Putin seems to be a weakling. If he is the commander he will strangulate Ukraine babies himself.

“You didn't answer my simple point : Why hasn't Russia carpet-bombed Kiev and the rest of Ukraine ?”


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540710302056062976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540709400851017729


Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540744132783513600



Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. Russia can afford to lose 10 million men. Ukraine cannot afford to lose 10 million men.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Ali_Baba said:


> Interesting - it seems that Ukraine is taking out military supplies and resources ahead of it counter-attack. Combined with Russian logistics - this will start to become a problem for the Russians as Ukraines gets more HIMARs and trains up more people to use it.



Word has it America is sending every HIMARS it has to Ukraine and plans to manufacture 1,000 HIMARS per year to keep up the war effort.


----------



## DF41



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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

DF41 said:


>



Why no end in sight? Because it is called permanent war.


----------



## Corruptistan

According to the UN less than 5.000 confirmed civilians have died in Ukraine in the past 4 months. That is peanuts compared to Western/US-led wars of the past. So the continuous propaganda in Western-controlled media of Russia deliberately trying to target civilians, is mostly bogus. For starters, no civilian deaths and wars are oxymorons. Such a thing does not exist. If Russia wanted they could have carpet bombed all of Ukraine by now and leaving very little left standing.

However what is even more hypocritical in this regard is the complete and utter silence during the Ukrainian onslaught on Donbass between 2014-2022 where a great number of local civilians (in the 1.000's) died at the hands of the Western-sponsored Ukrainian army. This angle of the story was hardly ever told in the West but now we are supposed to believe that Russian soldiers were raping infants in Bucha etc. Not buying that.

_Anyway I don't condone civilian killings in Ukraine or even the war (humans are humans after all) what I strongly object to is the disgusting Western hypocrisy. That is why nobody outside of the very same West is strongly condemning Russia or following suit in terms of sanctions etc.

Because people have realized that the West does not care about justice, democracy etc. as they like to preach. Only when it suits their own interests. When the opposite is the case, everything becomes legal.

There is a limit to how naive/stupid people can be and we have seen this playbook too many times by now already for people to swallow it again._






This Freudian slip illustrates this hypocrisy very well.

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## Apollon

K_Bin_W said:


> Looks like Germany will be facing crises.. max 75 days gas reserves...



Bullshit report. Im in Germany. Nobody here says enough. Infact Scholz yesterday said sanctions remain till russia has regime change



Khan2727 said:


> According to the UN less than 5.000 confirmed civilians have died in Ukraine in the past 4 months. That is peanuts compared to Western/US-led wars of the past. So the continuous propaganda in Western-controlled media of Russia deliberately trying to target civilians, is mostly bogus. For starters, no civilian deaths and wars are oxymorons. Such a thing does not exist. If Russia wanted they could have carpet bombed all of Ukraine by now and leaving very little left standing.
> 
> However what is even more hypocritical in this regard is the complete and utter silence during the Ukrainian onslaught on Donbass between 2014-2022 where a great number of local civilians (in the 1.000's) died at the hands of the Western-sponsored Ukrainian army. This angle of the story was hardly ever told in the West but now we are supposed to believe that Russian soldiers were raping infants in Bucha etc. Not buying that.
> 
> Anyway I don't condone civilian killings in Ukraine or even the war (humans are humans after all) what I strongly object to is the disgusting Western hypocrisy. That is why nobody outside of the very same West is strongly condemning Russia or following suit in terms of sanctions etc.
> 
> There is a limit to how naive/stupid people can be and we have seen this playbook too many times by now already for people to swallow it again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This Freudian slip illustrates this hypocrisy very well.



Good thing is, non westerners dont matter

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Apollon said:


> Bullshit report. Im in Germany. Nobody here says enough. Infact Scholz yesterday said sanctions remain till russia has regime change



Not gonna happen. Russia economy is doing well due to China backing.

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## Corruptistan

Apollon said:


> Good thing is, non westerners dont matter



Keep telling yourself that, clown. Non-Westerners outnumber Westerners hugely and this will only increase in the future. As will the rise of ancient civilizations and traditional powers in non-Western lands such as the Chinese, Pakistanis/Indians/South Asia as a whole, Arabs, Iranians, Africans, Latin America etc.

500 years of dominance, of which 200 of them are truly global, does not amount to all of world history. Just a tiny bit. With the demographics at play and the emerging multipolar world, repeats of Iraq, colonialism (direct or indirect) etc. is becoming a distant thing of the past. You can bookmark this post and read it again at your deathbed when the Western decline has further cemented itself.

Good luck at trying to stop the rise of China and the entire non-Western world.

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## Iron Shrappenel

jamahir said:


> It was in January or in early February that a Russian nuclear missile submarine was not far from the coast of USA. And it was not so long ago when Russia readied some of its road-mobile ICBM fleet through a practise. And then the Russian threat of using the Poseidon undersea nuclear weapon against Britain. So not everything may rest on strategic bombing nowadays.


Poseidon is something that makes you wonder how far will mankind go to kill each other...

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## zartosht

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540480974219354112
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540480978719752192
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540481018850836485
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540481022772535296





Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540481025259749376
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540481026459373569



Got to feel a little bad for these poor sheep

poorly trained ukie troops getting sent on suicidal missions to "stand and holed every inch" While getting pounded by 24/7 Russian artillery/air strikes. With no provisions, heavy weaponry or hope.

and on top, they will be branded traitors/deserters if they dont fight, and their existence wont even be acknowledged once they turn into soil fertilizer or become Russian POWs. As far as the Kiev regime is concerend, none of those dudes exist, and every soldier made a glorious fighting retreat, taking down 30 Russians for every bullet, and retreating their way into strategic victory according to the ISW/zelensky/CIA

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Apollon said:


> Bullshit report. Im in Germany. Nobody here says enough. Infact Scholz yesterday said sanctions remain till russia has regime change



Germany will never let down their Ukranian Nazi brothers and sisters. Let these Indians keep making these propaganda and delusional videos.


----------



## Avicenna

Apollon said:


> Bullshit report. Im in Germany. Nobody here says enough. Infact Scholz yesterday said sanctions remain till russia has regime change
> 
> 
> 
> Good thing is, non westerners dont matter



What a fookin POS you are.

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## Apollon

Khan2727 said:


> Keep telling yourself that, clown. Non-Westerners outnumber Westerners hugely and this will only increase in the future. As will the rise of ancient civilizations and traditional powers in non-Western lands such as the Chinese, Pakistanis/Indians/South Asia as a whole, Arabs, Iranians, Africans, Latin America etc.
> 
> 500 years of dominance, of which 200 of them are truly global, does not amount to all of world history. Just a tiny bit. With the demographics at play and the emerging multipolar world, repeats of Iraq, colonialism (direct or indirect) etc. is becoming a distant thing of the past. You can bookmark this post and read it again at your deathbed when the Western decline has further cemented itself.
> 
> Good luck at trying to stop the rise of China and the entire non-Western world.



Numbers dont matter. We are 70% of world economy. 


And last 500 years? West dominates world since thousands of years. Hellenic world crushed Persia and build largest empire ever seen. 


Roman Empire was worlds most dominant empire as well. 

We always win, since thousands of years. We look best, are smartest, have best culture and are the benchmark of what humans should be like. 

And btw multipolar means always constant war, chaos and instability.

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## Corruptistan

Apollon said:


> Numbers dont matter. We are 70% of world economy.
> 
> 
> And last 500 years? West dominates world since thousands of years. Hellenic world crushed Persia and build largest empire ever seen.
> 
> 
> Roman Empire was worlds most dominant empire as well.
> 
> We always win, since thousands of years. We look best, are smartest, have best culture and are the benchmark of what humans should be like.
> 
> And btw multipolar means always constant war, chaos and instability.





How about less than 50%?

99.99% of Western Europe were mere savages with no civilization until not long ago. The only exceptions are the Hellenic and Roman ones who are newcomers compared to the older Asian/Egyptian ones.

Greeks never build any large empires other than the very SHORT-LIVED "Alexander the Great" one. Which is nowhere close to being the largest empire, lol.





__





List of largest empires - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Most dominant, no such thing. If anything that is probably the US empire of today.

Rest of your post is delusion.

As for wars, you should know about that, as you are masters of slaughtering each other historically speaking.

Take a look at the map of wars in the past 4000 years.











__





The planet’s history of violence over 4,000 years in one simple map







www.telegraph.co.uk





Good luck, you will need it.

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## zartosht

Apollon said:


> Numbers dont matter. We are 70% of world economy.
> 
> 
> And last 500 years? West dominates world since thousands of years. Hellenic world crushed Persia and build largest empire ever seen.
> 
> 
> Roman Empire was worlds most dominant empire as well.
> 
> We always win, since thousands of years. We look best, are smartest, have best culture and are the benchmark of what humans should be like.
> 
> And btw multipolar means always constant war, chaos and instability.



Greeks beat Iran 1 time in their history and collapsed and were slaves upto the 19th century.

now stfu and enjoy this picture before your inevitable ban







one of the only wars where the Iranian Shahanshah and the roman emperor personally brought the full weight of their armies for an all out battle. 


Not a single roman made it out alive. valerian was used as a footstool to mount shapurs horse. 

while philip the arab (on his knees) was put in as the new emperor after he suffieciently licked clean shapurs boots to his satisfaction.


----------



## Apollon

Khan2727 said:


> How about less than 50%?
> 
> 99.99% of Western Europe were mere savages with no civilization until not long ago. The only exceptions are the Hellenic and Roman ones who are newcomers compared to the older Asian/Egyptian ones.
> 
> Greeks never build any large empires other than the very SHORT-LIVED "Alexander the Great" one. Which is nowhere close to being the largest empire, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List of largest empires - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most dominant, no such thing. If anything that is probably the US empire of today.
> 
> Rest of your post is delusion.
> 
> As for wars, you should know about that, as you are masters of slaughtering each other historically speaking.
> 
> Take a look at the map of wars in the past 4000 years.
> 
> View attachment 856745
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The planet’s history of violence over 4,000 years in one simple map
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.telegraph.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck, you will need it.



Must hurt you so bad to know worlds oldest stone buildings are in... Europe. Worlds oldest astronomy ..in europe ( skydisc of nebra). 

Greece is older than anything in Asia and also older than Egypt. Oldest civilisation here is 5600 bc . 2000 years before Egypt.


----------



## aziqbal

Khan2727 said:


> According to the UN less than 5.000 confirmed civilians have died in Ukraine in the past 4 months. That is peanuts compared to Western/US-led wars of the past. So the continuous propaganda in Western-controlled media of Russia deliberately trying to target civilians, is mostly bogus. For starters, no civilian deaths and wars are oxymorons. Such a thing does not exist. If Russia wanted they could have carpet bombed all of Ukraine by now and leaving very little left standing.
> 
> However what is even more hypocritical in this regard is the complete and utter silence during the Ukrainian onslaught on Donbass between 2014-2022 where a great number of local civilians (in the 1.000's) died at the hands of the Western-sponsored Ukrainian army. This angle of the story was hardly ever told in the West but now we are supposed to believe that Russian soldiers were raping infants in Bucha etc. Not buying that.
> 
> _Anyway I don't condone civilian killings in Ukraine or even the war (humans are humans after all) what I strongly object to is the disgusting Western hypocrisy. That is why nobody outside of the very same West is strongly condemning Russia or following suit in terms of sanctions etc.
> 
> Because people have realized that the West does not care about justice, democracy etc. as they like to preach. Only when it suits their own interests. When the opposite is the case, everything becomes legal.
> 
> There is a limit to how naive/stupid people can be and we have seen this playbook too many times by now already for people to swallow it again._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This Freudian slip illustrates this hypocrisy very well.



Bush killed 1 million Iraqis

looks like until his death he will be hunted by it and inshallah punished after he dies

US bombs Iraq for freedom and democracy

and yet when Russia does it in Ukraine its evil and bad

Russia is exposing Western hypocrisy

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## Apollon

zartosht said:


> Greeks beat Iran 1 time in their history and collapsed and were slaves upto the 19th century.
> 
> now stfu and enjoy this picture before your inevitable ban
> 
> View attachment 856746
> 
> 
> 
> one of the only wars where the Iranian Shahanshah and the roman emperor personally brought the full weight of their armies for an all out battle.
> 
> 
> Not a single roman made it out alive. valerian was used as a footstool to mount shapurs horse.
> 
> while philip the arab (on his knees) was put in as the new emperor after he suffieciently licked clean shapurs boots to his satisfaction.



Quite wrong. Greece first smashed all attempts of persians to enter europe. Alexander then erased persians from earth. 


Thats why its today an arabic country


----------



## MeFishToo

Khan2727 said:


> How about less than 50%?
> 
> 99.99% of Western Europe were mere savages with no civilization until not long ago. The only exceptions are the Hellenic and Roman ones who are newcomers compared to the older Asian/Egyptian ones.
> 
> Greeks never build any large empires other than the very SHORT-LIVED "Alexander the Great" one. Which is nowhere close to being the largest empire, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List of largest empires - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most dominant, no such thing. If anything that is probably the US empire of today.
> 
> Rest of your post is delusion.
> 
> As for wars, you should know about that, as you are masters of slaughtering each other historically speaking.
> 
> Take a look at the map of wars in the past 4000 years.
> 
> View attachment 856745
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The planet’s history of violence over 4,000 years in one simple map
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.telegraph.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck, you will need it.


This is not a map of wars over the last 4000 years. Its a screendump of a mapped timeline of battles with western/eurocentric overrepresentation in the dataset.
Here is another




edit: its not even battles. Its based on a wikipedia database including post WW2 incidents like demonstrations turning violent and riots, hence so many yellow dots in the USA.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540734952534204422

Reactions: Love Love:
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## NotSure

MeFishToo said:


> Richard Black has been used by RT for years, commenting on US and NATO affairs. Anyone being used by RT is not someone I would trust analysing the situation in Ukraine.


And "it has electrolytes". Your reply is pure retardation and not an argument at all. It's not even about trusting someone or not, but using your brain. Checking facts and arguments, doing own research.

But i know, this is the normal mental state here in the west: Idiocracy.






Ab auf die Ignoreliste ...

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## Apollon

NotSure said:


> And "it has electrolytes". Your reply is pure retardation and not an argument at all. But i know, this is the normal mental state here in the west.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ab auf die Ignoreliste ...



Bist du aus Sucksen?


----------



## K_Bin_W

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Not gonna happen. Russia economy is doing well due to China backing.


Yep, Russkie economy is doing fine but some people live in denial.

I hear EU is now paying in Rubels

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540734952534204422



Russians can't cross the river as all the bridges on the river have been destroyed.


----------



## Apollon

K_Bin_W said:


> Yep, Russkie economy is doing fine but some people live in denial.
> 
> I hear EU is now paying in Rubels



Russkie economy collapsed by 15% already. 

EU pays not in rubles.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Russians can't cross the river as all the bridges on the river have been destroyed.



Pontoon bridge. Air drop. Build bridge. There are options. BTR-82A and BMD-4M light tanks are all amphibious.

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## MeFishToo

NotSure said:


> And "it has electrolytes". Your reply is pure retardation and not an argument at all. It's not even about trusting someone or not, but using your brain. But i know, this is the normal mental state here in the west: Idiocracy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ab auf die Ignoreliste ...


My brain tells me RT is a propaganda tool. I couldnt care less about you ignoring me.


----------



## K_Bin_W

Apollon said:


> Russkie economy collapsed by 15% already.
> 
> EU pays not in rubles.


Sure and I am the CEO of Gazprom.. lol..

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Apollon said:


> Russkie economy collapsed by 15% already.
> 
> EU pays not in rubles.



EU no longer needs oil or gas as it is going all electric.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540735660453142528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540733589247168513

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540735660453142528
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540733589247168513



Still a a long way to go to cover the Red parts.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Still a a long way to go to cover the Red parts.
> 
> View attachment 856757



Not all the red part. The land bridge to Crimea is complete. 10 years from now millions of Ukrainian men would be killed in Donbas war and Ukraine will be depopulated and weak.


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Not all the red part. The land bridge to Crimea is complete. 10 years from now millions of Ukrainian men would be killed in Donbas war and Ukraine will be depopulated and weak.



Cries for Russian help started in Odessa. Russia operation will be considered a failure without Odessa. Ukraine has already mined all of Odessa's coast. Russia has to take the land route and they are even having trouble holding on to Kheroson. Going to Odessa is impossible.










Ukrainian rightists burn alive 39 at Odessa union building


Some 1,000 Ukrainian rightists, led by the notorious Right Sector, surrounded, stormed, and burned the House of Trade Unions in Odessa last Friday, killing 39 pro-Russia demonstrators in the building.




www.peoplesworld.org





Ukrainian rightists burn alive 39 at Odessa union building​May 5, 2014 3:12 PM CDT BY JOHN WOJCIK

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Some 1,000 Ukrainian rightists, led by the notorious Right Sector, surrounded, stormed, and burned the House of Trade Unions in Odessa last Friday, killing 39 pro-Russia demonstrators in the building.
On their way to attacking the union hall, which was occupied by anti-Kiev government demonstrators fearing for their lives, the rightists recruited members of a Ukrainian football club, the Chernomorets, according to numerous reports in the European press and on line.
Many of those who attacked and burned the building wore swastikas and other fascist insignias, according to observers. Eye witnesses said that the fascists were armed with bats, shields, and metal chains and that the people inside the union hall had run there for protection from them. After the attack by the rightists streets around the trade union headquarters were reportedly stained with the blood of those who had jumped from windows to escape the flames.
Women and children were reported to be among those burned alive after initial rounds of shots and Molotov cocktails were thrown into the building by the right wingers.
The right wingers who burned the union headquarters had already set another pro-Russian encampment in Odessa afire. That encampment consisted of rows of tents in Odessa’s Kulikova Field Square.
Police said that many of the victims at the House of Trade Unions had choked to death before burning up. The majority of the victims were found lying dead on the floors but some had jumped from windows, according to police.
As the union hall was engulfed in flames, photos posted on Twitter showed people hanging out of windows and sitting on windowsills where they appeared to be preparing to jump.
According to numerous reports those who jumped and survived were surrounded and beaten by right-wingers, including members of the football team.
The videos and photos showed Ukrainian riot police standing there doing nothing to stop or prevent the violence. The Ukrainian police said they could do nothing because they were “unarmed.”
Right Sector has bragged about its role in the killings on line and on YouTube:
“At first we broke through the side, and then we came through the main entrance,” said one pro-Kiev rightist who identified as a member of the group.
As the building burned some of the pro-Kiev activists said on Twitter that “Colorado beetles are being roasted up in Odessa,” using a derogatory term for the St. George’s ribbons worn by many of the anti-Kiev government demonstrators.
There were few official media outlets present, thus the heavy reliance on live streamed social media.
“The aim is to completely clear Odessa of pro-Russians,” said Dmitry Rogovsky, another Right Sector activist whose hand was injured during the fighting.
Increasing violence by the rightists is a growing embarrassment to the U.S. and the European Union, which have backed the right wing coup in Kiev and have tried to pin the blame for Ukraine’s troubles on Russia. Leading circles in those countries had hoped to use the coup government to force an IMF-designed austerity program on the Ukraine. If the right wingers continue to embarrass the West, however, U.S., EU and IMF plans for the Ukraine could go awry.
_Photo: Trashed items are smoldering among debris following right-wing attacks in Odessa, Ukraine on May 2. Sergei Poliakov/AP_

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## The SC

Apollon said:


> Must hurt you so bad to know worlds oldest stone buildings are in... Europe. Worlds oldest astronomy ..in europe ( skydisc of nebra).
> 
> Greece is older than anything in Asia and also older than Egypt. Oldest civilisation here is 5600 bc . 2000 years before Egypt.


OFF topic.. but the Sphinx alone is 15 000 years old.. you weren't even around where you are..

Read also about the Sumerians, the Babylonians, the Fertile Crescent civilization and the Indus civilization before commenting from your own head version..

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Cries for Russian help started in Odessa. Russia operation will be considered a failure without Odessa. Ukraine has already mined all of Odessa's coast. Russia has to take the land route and they are even having trouble holding on to Kheroson. Going to Odessa is impossible.
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> Ukrainian rightists burn alive 39 at Odessa union building
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> Some 1,000 Ukrainian rightists, led by the notorious Right Sector, surrounded, stormed, and burned the House of Trade Unions in Odessa last Friday, killing 39 pro-Russia demonstrators in the building.
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> www.peoplesworld.org
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> 
> Ukrainian rightists burn alive 39 at Odessa union building​May 5, 2014 3:12 PM CDT BY JOHN WOJCIK
> 
> Share
> Email
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some 1,000 Ukrainian rightists, led by the notorious Right Sector, surrounded, stormed, and burned the House of Trade Unions in Odessa last Friday, killing 39 pro-Russia demonstrators in the building.
> On their way to attacking the union hall, which was occupied by anti-Kiev government demonstrators fearing for their lives, the rightists recruited members of a Ukrainian football club, the Chernomorets, according to numerous reports in the European press and on line.
> Many of those who attacked and burned the building wore swastikas and other fascist insignias, according to observers. Eye witnesses said that the fascists were armed with bats, shields, and metal chains and that the people inside the union hall had run there for protection from them. After the attack by the rightists streets around the trade union headquarters were reportedly stained with the blood of those who had jumped from windows to escape the flames.
> Women and children were reported to be among those burned alive after initial rounds of shots and Molotov cocktails were thrown into the building by the right wingers.
> The right wingers who burned the union headquarters had already set another pro-Russian encampment in Odessa afire. That encampment consisted of rows of tents in Odessa’s Kulikova Field Square.
> Police said that many of the victims at the House of Trade Unions had choked to death before burning up. The majority of the victims were found lying dead on the floors but some had jumped from windows, according to police.
> As the union hall was engulfed in flames, photos posted on Twitter showed people hanging out of windows and sitting on windowsills where they appeared to be preparing to jump.
> According to numerous reports those who jumped and survived were surrounded and beaten by right-wingers, including members of the football team.
> The videos and photos showed Ukrainian riot police standing there doing nothing to stop or prevent the violence. The Ukrainian police said they could do nothing because they were “unarmed.”
> Right Sector has bragged about its role in the killings on line and on YouTube:
> “At first we broke through the side, and then we came through the main entrance,” said one pro-Kiev rightist who identified as a member of the group.
> As the building burned some of the pro-Kiev activists said on Twitter that “Colorado beetles are being roasted up in Odessa,” using a derogatory term for the St. George’s ribbons worn by many of the anti-Kiev government demonstrators.
> There were few official media outlets present, thus the heavy reliance on live streamed social media.
> “The aim is to completely clear Odessa of pro-Russians,” said Dmitry Rogovsky, another Right Sector activist whose hand was injured during the fighting.
> Increasing violence by the rightists is a growing embarrassment to the U.S. and the European Union, which have backed the right wing coup in Kiev and have tried to pin the blame for Ukraine’s troubles on Russia. Leading circles in those countries had hoped to use the coup government to force an IMF-designed austerity program on the Ukraine. If the right wingers continue to embarrass the West, however, U.S., EU and IMF plans for the Ukraine could go awry.
> _Photo: Trashed items are smoldering among debris following right-wing attacks in Odessa, Ukraine on May 2. Sergei Poliakov/AP_



Odessa will be dealt once 10 million Ukrainian men die or get captured in Donbas and have no more men left to defend Odessa.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540796059672363008

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540796059672363008



Wasting expensive ammo on civilians.


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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540796059672363008



This was apparently the command post for the Russian 20th Army. It’s now been leveled by HIMARS

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## F-22Raptor

It’s also being reported that the Russian 106th airborne division command post was hit by HIMARS, destroying a number of equipment and weapons and killing one of its commanders a Colonel Vasilyev.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540799631994392576

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540803258372857856

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## beast89

Zelensky's iconic Glastonbury speech. Recruited many festival goers that day to the foreign legion. Celebrity President who will be ousted by his military

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540802556741332997

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540802559304007680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540802561418166275

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540802564752429058

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540803258372857856



Russians are running short on manpower. They already lost 250K soldiers in this war.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540808357128425472


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## SalarHaqq

About 80 Polish auxiliaries eliminated already by Russian forces. These foreign "volunteers" are stepping right into a meat grinder the moment they set foot on Ukrainian soil.

_____

Russian troops kill ‘up to 80’ Polish fighters in Ukraine: Moscow​By *AFP*
25 June 2022 | 11:56 am









Russian troops kill 'up to 80' Polish fighters in Ukraine: Moscow | The Guardian Nigeria News - Nigeria and World News


"Up to 80 Polish mercenaries, 20 armoured combat vehicles and eight Grad multiple rocket launchers were destroyed in precision strikes on the Megatex zinc factory in Konstantinovka" in the Donetsk region...



guardian.ng

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540744398484504580

Is the US Dollar in danger? 👇 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540738243208982528

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## Primus

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Russians are running short on manpower. They already lost 250K soldiers in this war.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540816539452055552
Potentially a HIMARS strike

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540763016899072002

The CIA and US Special Forces are confirmed to be operating in Ukraine.


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## Soldier35

There were footage of the work of the T-90M tank in Ukraine. The tank covers the tank group, releases an aerosol screen to protect against anti-tank systems and fires at the enemy.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540812147378503680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540796059672363008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540791136842911744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540777789074309123

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## K_Bin_W

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Russians are running short on manpower. They already lost 250K soldiers in this war.



Please make it even 500K sounds much better..

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540722860712284160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540714505436536832

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540705353913884673

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540838072325214209


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## The SC

The work of the special forces of a number of NATO countries on the territory of Ukraine is a secret network of spies and US special forces that help Kyiv, including intelligence - The New York Times


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540794471062847488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540797740283703296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540735033186459650

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540668164991770626

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540623319598354433

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540622561628901376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540620749051944960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540763016899072002


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540749479690702850

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540811904549064704

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540810141628514304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540807394489503744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540806552579350530

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 25​Jun 25, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF

*Karolina Hird, Mason Clark, and George Barros
June 25, 5:00 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) announced the commanders of the “central” and “southern” groupings of forces in Ukraine on June 24, confirming previously rumored changes reported on June 21.[1] *Spokesperson for the Russian MoD Igor Konashenkov stated on June 24 that Commander of the Central Military District Colonel General Alexander Lapin is in command of the "central” group of forces, which is responsible for operations against Lysychansk (and presumably Severodonetsk).[2] Konashenkov additionally stated that Army General Sergei Surovikin, commander of the Russian Aerospace Forces, commands the ”southern” group of forces and oversaw the encirclement of Hirske and Zolote.[3] The Russian MoD’s announcement confirms ISW’s assessment from June 21 that the Russian high command is reshuffling and restructuring military command in order to better organize operations in Ukraine, though the Russian MoD statement does not state when the changes occurred.[4] The UK MoD confirmed that the Russian command has removed several generals from key operational roles in Ukraine, including Commander of the Airborne Forces (VDV) Colonel General Andrei Serdyukov and Commander of Russia’s Southern Military District Alexander Dvornikov, who was likely was acting as overall theatre commander.[5] The UK MoD noted that command of the Southern Military District will transfer to Surovikin.[6] The Russian MoD’s statement notably only discusses the center and south _force groupings (_not the Southern Military District as a whole), but Dvornikov has likely been removed from his previous role.
*Russian forces conducted an abnormally large series of missile strikes against Ukrainian rear areas on June 25.[7] *The Ukrainian Airforce Command reported that Russian forces fired over 50 ground-, air-, and sea-based missiles at Ukraine and targeted areas in Zhytomyr, Kyiv, Khmelmytskyi, Chernihiv, Lviv, Mykolaiv, Kharkiv, and Dnipropetrovsk oblasts.[8] The Ukrainian Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported that six Russian Tu-22M3 bombers departed from the Shaykova airbase in Belarus and launched 12 Kh-22 cruise missiles at land targets in Kyiv, Sumy, and Chernihiv Oblasts, which is the first such launch from Belarus.[9] The Ukrainian Airforce Command noted that Russian forces used sea-based Kalibr missiles against targets in western Ukraine, X-22 and ground-based Iskander and Tochka-U missiles against targets in northern Ukraine, and ONYX missiles and Bastion complexes against targets in southern Ukraine.[10] Ukrainian air defense reportedly shot down many of the missiles, which were likely intended to target critical support infrastructure in areas of Ukraine where there is no direct combat.
*Ukrainian intelligence assessed that the Kremlin is continuing covert partial mobilization efforts in support of what it increasingly recognizes as a war of attrition in Eastern Ukraine.[11] *Representative of the Ukrainian Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) Vadym Skibitsky stated that the Kremlin recognizes it is waging a war of attrition and is conducting secretive partial mobilization efforts while additionally mobilizing the BARS (Combat Army Reserve of the Country) system and other constant-readiness elements. Skibitsky noted that 105 battalion tactical groups (BTGs) are taking part in the war in Ukraine and that Russian reserve capabilities could increase this number to anywhere between 150 and 160 BTGs but did not specify a timeframe for this mobilization. Skibitsky reiterated that the Kremlin’s main goal is to secure control of the entire Donbas and that its secondary priority is consolidation of its control of Kherson Oblast by September 11, when the Kremlin seeks to hold referenda to directly annex territories or create quasi-state “People’s Republics.” The Kremlin intends to conduct a protracted conflict in Ukraine and is seeking to advance mobilization efforts to support long-term military and political goals in occupied areas of Ukraine.
*Ukraine’s Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) firmly stated that Belarusian involvement in the war in Ukraine on behalf of Russia remains highly unlikely.[12] *GUR representative Vadym Skibitsky stated that Belarusian forces will not attack Ukraine without the support of Russian troops, of which there are approximately 1,500 in Belarus. Skibitsky noted that Belarus has seven BTGs on a rotating basis near the border with Ukraine and that the formation of a Russian-Belarusian joint shock group would take three to four weeks, with two to three weeks needed to simply deploy sufficient Russian forces into Belarus. The GUR’s statement reaffirms ISW’s previous assessments that, while recent Belarusian actions along the Ukrainian border are threatening and likely intended to fix Ukrainian forces in place with the threat of Belarusian action, they are highly unlikely to preempt actual involvement in the war.[13]
*Key Takeaways*

*The Russian Ministry of Defense stated that the leadership of its central and southern groups of forces fighting Ukraine has changed, confirming ISW’s previous assessment that the Russian high command is restructuring the leadership of operations in Ukraine.*
*Ukrainian intelligence officials emphasized that Belarus remains highly unlikely to join the war in Ukraine.*
*Ukrainian sources confirmed that Russian forces have taken full control of Severodonetsk and are fighting within Lysychansk.*
*Russian forces made measured gains to the north and southeast of Bakhmut.*
*Russian forces continued unsuccessful attempts to advance southeast of Izyum toward Slovyansk.*
*Russian forces continued positional battles north of Kharkiv City.*
*Russian forces attempted to strengthen their defensive lines and recapture lost positions on the Southern Axis.*



*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Ukrainian sources confirmed on June 25 that Russian forces took full control of the entirety of Severodonetsk and are making advances on the southern outskirts of Lysychansk. The Ukrainian General Staff stated that Russian forces are “consolidating” and “fortifying” positions in Severodonetsk, Syrotyne, Voronove, and Borivske following the completion of the Ukrainian withdrawal from Severodonetsk on June 24.[14] Mayor of Severodonetsk Oleksandr Stryuk confirmed that Russian forces have fully occupied Severodonetsk and are now trying to establish order within the city.[15] Several Russian sources additionally posted footage from within Severodonetsk to corroborate claims of control of the entire city, including the Azot industrial zone.[16] Russian forces are fighting within Lysychansk itself and reportedly have reached a mine and a gelatin factory on the outskirts of the city, confirmed by NASA FIRMS data of heat anomalies in the Lysychansk area (see image in-line with text).[17] The Rapid Response Brigade of the Ukrainian National Guard stated that Ukrainian positions in Lysychansk are more strategically valuable than previously held positions in Severodonetsk and suggested that Ukrainian forces may seek to launch counterattacks from within Lysychansk, though their ability to do so successfully is likely limited by continued Russian encroachment.[18]



[Source: NASA FIRMS data of heat anomalies at the Lysychansk Gelatin Factory, 48.835612188176746, 38.44200713423625]​Russian forces made incremental gains to the east of Bakhmut on June 25. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that unspecified elements of the Russian 5th Combined Arms Army are fighting around Pokrovske and Pylypchatyne, both within 15 km northeast of Bakhmut.[19] Russian forces reportedly advanced one kilometer in the area of Roty and Vershyna, both within 10 kilometers southeast of Bakhmut.[20] Deputy Information Minister of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) Daniil Bezsonov claimed that DNR troops took control of Kodema, a village 15 km southeast of Bakhmut.[21] Russian forces additionally conducted a series of unsuccessful assault operations north of Donetsk City on June 25.[22] Russian forces fought around Yasynuvata, Kostiantynivka, Vasylivka, Niu York, Marinka, and Kamyanka but did not make any confirmed advances in these areas.[23]



Russian forces continued offensive operations to the southeast of Izyum towards Slovyansk but did not make any confirmed advances on June 25.[24] The Ukrainian General Staff noted that Russian troops fought around Bohorodychne, Mazanivka, Dovhenke, and Dolyna, all to the northwest of Slovyansk near the Kharkiv-Donetsk Oblast border.[25] Russian forces continued to set conditions to resume offensive operations toward Slovyansk from the west of Lyman and fired on Mayaki, Psykunivka, Raihorodok, and Starodubivka, as well as reconnoitering Ukrainian positions in the area.[26]



*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces continued to fight positional battles for control of their occupied frontiers north of Kharkiv City and shelled Ukrainian positions around northern Kharkiv Oblast on June 25.[27] Russian and Ukrainian sources reported that Russian forces are fighting for control of contested territory around Udy, Tsupivka, Velyki Prokhody, Kozacha Lopan, Vekhnii Saltiv, and Pytomnyk.[28] The Ukrainian General Staff noted that Russian forces north of Kharkiv City are taking measures to replenish losses, which indicates that Russian forces continue to suffer casualties in attempts to prevent further Ukrainian advances toward the international border.[29] Russian forces continued to conduct air, missile, and artillery strikes on and around Kharkiv City.[30]



*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces along the Southern Axis focused on defending their occupied frontiers and conducting local attacks to regain lost positions on June 25.[31] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that an unspecified Russian company tactical group unsuccessfully attempted to regain a lost position in Potomkyne from Vysokopillya in northern Kherson Oblast.[32] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command stated that this was the second attempted Russian effort at regaining Potomkyne.[33] Russian forces continued defensive operations in Zaporizhia Oblast and reportedly attempted to attack Ukrainian positions in Huliapole.[34] The Head of the Dnipropetrovsk Oblast Council reported that Russian forces have intensified artillery strikes along the frontline towards Kryvyi Rih in response to Ukrainian advances deep into Kherson Oblast, and Russian forces continued to fire on areas of Dnipropetrovsk, Zaporizhia, Mykolaiv, and Kherson oblasts.[35]



*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
The Ukrainian military leadership is taking measures to centralize guidance for partisan groups to better leverage partisan pressure against Russian occupation efforts. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported that the Ukrainian Center for National Resistance is urging Ukrainian citizens in occupied areas to exercise cyber “hygiene” to avoid having mobile communication and internet data collected by Russian intelligence operatives and additionally to effectively organize partisan actions.[36] The Center for National Resistance called for citizens to destroy digital evidence of participation in partisan activities but cautioned against making their digital presence “too sterile” to avoid raising suspicion. Ukrainian Major General Dmitry Marchenko additionally told _RFERL _that Ukrainian residents of Kherson are hiding weapons and waiting for centralized instructions to take up arms on behalf of the Ukrainian military.[37] The Ukrainian military leadership likely seeks to galvanize and centrally coordinate Ukrainian partisan actions, both to disrupt Russian control and possibly prepare for coordinated operations with conventional Ukrainian forces [38]


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540691467370262529

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540683229287665664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540679320762548224
The allied forces entered the suburb of Lisichansk, in the district of the mine. Melnikova (Matrosskaya).. The offensive is also developing in the settlement. Volcheyarovka.
At the moment, Lisichansk is in the operational environment.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540676058852143104

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

'We'll win by end of year': Ukrainian chief defiant amid 'tactical' retreat | ITV News


In an interview with ITV News, the country's Military Intelligence Chief, Kyrylo Budanov, told us the retreat was both 'tactical' and 'organised.' | ITV National News




www.itv.com




'We'll win by end of year': Ukrainian military intelligence chief defiant amid 'tactical' retreat​



Saturday 25 June 2022, 11:52am








*There is a fear that if the war becomes a protracted stalemate then western interest will be hard to maintain, ITV News Europe Editor James Mates and Producer Jenny Klochko* *report*
*Words by ITV News Producer Natasha Tierney*
After weeks of heavy fighting in the eastern city of Sievierodonetsk, Ukraine will begin withdrawing its troops to more defendable positions, the Governor of Luhansk announced on Friday.
Russia has controlled around 95% of the Luhansk region for more than a month now, but Ukraine's army has defended the key city of Sievierodonetsk and neighbouring Lysychansk fiercely.
The city now lies in all but ruins, with heavy shelling destroying most infrastructure, and footage from soldiers on the frontline giving an insight into just how close the street fighting has become.
The capture of Sievierodonetsk has been a key strategic goal for Russia throughout this war.
Alongside the capture of Lysychansk - which lies across the river and for now remains under Ukrainian control - it would allow them to take the entire Luhansk area, which, with Donetsk makes up the Donbas region.


On Friday, in an interview with ITV News, the country's Military Intelligence Chief, Kyrylo Budanov, told us the retreat was both "tactical" and "organised", and that he still believes it's possible for Ukraine to win the war by the end of the year.
"In order to achieve a strategic victory, our command decided to regroup on new positions. And I personally believe this decision to be correct," he said.
"The defence of Ukraine has been going on for four months, and the defence of Sieverodonetsk has been going on for a little bit over four weeks. Our forces there will not be destroyed, this will not happen."
"This is only a tactical regroup. And, as you can see, a tactical regroup is going on in Ukraine as a whole. In certain areas of the frontline we are successfully counterattacking, in certain areas of the frontline we are successfully defending," added Budanov.
Despite recent Ukrainian setbacks in the east - caused by Russia's heavy offensive after re-focusing its efforts away from elsewhere in Ukraine to Donbas - Budanov emphasizes that the Ukrainians are making gains elsewhere, most notably on the Southern front, in Russian-occupied Kherson.

"You will have seen that in the Mykolaiv and Kherson direction there is a certain change. It's only a matter of time for Kherson," he says.
"Ukraine will return to its borders of 1991, there will be no other scenarios and we are not considering any other scenarios. Beginning in August, certain events will take place, that will demonstrate to the whole world that the turning point begins to take place."
"I have said it before and I'll say it again - before the end of the year, active fighting will decrease virtually to nothing. We are adamant in our view. We will regain control over our territories in the foreseeable future," he added.
He acknowledges that much of the Ukrainian army's success in this war now hinges on international support, noting the UK's recent offer of military training for 10,000 Ukrainian troops.
Ukrainian troops defend nearly deserted city as war of attrition tests endurance
'They burned': Moscow forces bombed hospital patients who refused to be deported
"The UK's help in the training process is significant - they are giving us high-precision equipment, which requires training. Without it we wouldn't be able to operate it efficiently. This is an excellent example of co-operation and help."
"But we always have a lack of arms - we need more arms," he adds.
With Ukraine losing around 200 soldiers a day in the east, time is of the essence as the battle to maintain control of Lysychansk wages on.
But Budanov remains steadfast in his army's ability to push back Russia's invasion: "Putin will not succeed. This is a tragedy that he led Russia and Ukraine to, and it will end up as a catastrophe for Russia. Nothing else."

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## _Nabil_

Today in Oslo






Seriously Ukrainian soldiers dying for their country deserve better than this ....

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## ARMalik

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Russians are running short on manpower. They already lost 250K soldiers in this war.



Yea, loosing Imaginary Soldiers is a CRAFT OF ITS OWN !!

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540871894613778432


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## ARMalik

K_Bin_W said:


> Please make it even 500K sounds much better..



Let's just make it 1-Million so that he can sleep better at night.


----------



## ARMalik

Severodonetsk Falls to Russia !​








Fall of Severodonetsk is Russia’s biggest victory since Mariupol


Fall of city after weeks of street fighting transforms the battlefield in the east of Ukraine to Moscow’s advantage.




www.aljazeera.com




Fall of Severodonetsk is Russia’s biggest victory since Mariupol​
Russian forces have fully occupied Severodonetsk, the mayor of the eastern Ukrainian city said, confirming Ukraine’s biggest battlefield setback for more than a month after weeks of fighting to hold the strategic town and latest symbol of Ukrainian resistance.

Russian missiles also rained down on western, northern and southern parts of the country on Saturday as Europe’s biggest land conflict since World War II enters its fifth month.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540772025568051200

Nothing like getting blown up while taking a dump.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

ARMalik said:


> Severodonetsk Falls to Russia !​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fall of Severodonetsk is Russia’s biggest victory since Mariupol
> 
> 
> Fall of city after weeks of street fighting transforms the battlefield in the east of Ukraine to Moscow’s advantage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fall of Severodonetsk is Russia’s biggest victory since Mariupol​
> Russian forces have fully occupied Severodonetsk, the mayor of the eastern Ukrainian city said, confirming Ukraine’s biggest battlefield setback for more than a month after weeks of fighting to hold the strategic town and latest symbol of Ukrainian resistance.
> 
> Russian missiles also rained down on western, northern and southern parts of the country on Saturday as Europe’s biggest land conflict since World War II enters its fifth month.



Its a tactical retreat. Russians will get pounded in the next few days like it is happening in Kherson.

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## F-22Raptor

There’s rumors on social media that the HIMARS strike on Russian command posts have killed up to 25 Russian Generals and high ranking officers which is why Putins vehicle was seen rushing back to the Kremlin to talk with force commanders. TIFWIW

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

F-22Raptor said:


> There’s rumors on social media that the HIMARS strike on Russian command posts have killed up to 25 Russian Generals and high ranking officers which is why Putins vehicle was seen rushing back to the Kremlin to talk with force commanders. TIFWIW



The original Putin was already eliminated by MI6. Current Putin is a body double working for MI6.

Vladimir Putin may be dead with body double taking his place, MI6 bosses claim​WORLD EXCLUSIVE: Russian leader Vladimir Putin might already be dead with MI6 sources claiming he could have been replaced by a body double. It follows intense speculation about the warmonger's health


By
John Ward

21:28, 28 MAY 2022
UPDATED21:52, 28 MAY 2022









Vladimir Putin may be dead with body double taking his place, MI6 bosses claim


WORLD EXCLUSIVE: Russian leader Vladimir Putin might already be dead with MI6 sources claiming he could have been replaced by a body double. It follows intense speculation about the warmonger's health




www.dailystar.co.uk

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## gambit

Anyone caught this news yet....???









Desperate Putin 'calls up obese general, 67, to fight in Ukraine'


VLADIMIR Putin has called a morbidly obese general out of retirement to lead his troops in Ukraine as he is running out of senior officers, reports claim. The Russian despot is now “scraping …




www.thesun.co.uk





He reportedly scoffs five meals a day and washes it down with at least a litre of vodka.​
How desperate is Poutine? Either that or this guy must be a tactical genius.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

gambit said:


> Anyone caught this news yet....???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Desperate Putin 'calls up obese general, 67, to fight in Ukraine'
> 
> 
> VLADIMIR Putin has called a morbidly obese general out of retirement to lead his troops in Ukraine as he is running out of senior officers, reports claim. The Russian despot is now “scraping …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thesun.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He reportedly scoffs five meals a day and washes it down with at least a litre of vodka.​
> How desperate is Poutine? Either that or this guy must be a tactical genius.



Seems like MI6 is using Putin's body double to malign the reputation of the original Putin.

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## ARMalik

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Its a tactical retreat. Russians will get pounded in the next few days like it is happening in Kherson.



Thanks for your GREAT Insight -- all of us at PDF are very much Obliged !!

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

ARMalik said:


> Thanks for your GREAT Insight -- all of us at PDF are very much Obliged !!



This has been confirmed by the Ukranian Intelligence Chief here









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments


Russians are running short on manpower. They already lost 250K soldiers in this war. Please make it even 500K sounds much better.. :)



defence.pk


----------



## Viet

Huge bill

“By the end of 2022, Russia is expected to be losing around $400 billion in annual payments that it has been receiving from European countries.”










Russian oil: EU agrees compromise deal on banning imports


The latest round of EU-wide sanctions excludes pipeline oil imports after Hungary opposed a total ban.



www.bbc.com


----------



## Viet

Away from oil

Global carmakers will invest 515 billion USD in developing EVs, batteries. 112 billion USD alone come from German carmaker VW.










Exclusive: Global carmakers now target $515 billion for EVs, batteries


Global automakers are planning to spend more than half a trillion dollars on electric vehicles and batteries through 2030, according to a Reuters analysis, amping up investments aimed at weaning car buyers away from fossil fuels and meeting increasingly tough decarbonization targets.




www.reuters.com


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540741421103300608

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540900547297181697

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540878455461535746

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## khansaheeb

Ukraine troops film first-person view of battle for Severodonetsk​


----------



## WotTen

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> The original Putin was already eliminated by MI6. Current Putin is a body double working for MI6.



They got a heavily discounted 99 cents body double.

EXCLUSIVE:
Vladimir Putin 'losing his sight' and 'given three years to live by doctors'​








Vladimir Putin 'losing his sight' and 'given three years to live by doctors'


A Russian intelligence source said Vladimir Putin has a "severe form of rapidly progressing cancer" and his "limbs are shaking uncontrollably"




www.mirror.co.uk

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## A.P. Richelieu

Khan2727 said:


> According to the UN less than 5.000 confirmed civilians have died in Ukraine in the past 4 months. That is peanuts compared to Western/US-led wars of the past. So the continuous propaganda in Western-controlled media of Russia deliberately trying to target civilians, is mostly bogus. For starters, no civilian deaths and wars are oxymorons. Such a thing does not exist. If Russia wanted they could have carpet bombed all of Ukraine by now and leaving very little left standing.
> 
> However what is even more hypocritical in this regard is the complete and utter silence during the Ukrainian onslaught on Donbass between 2014-2022 where a great number of local civilians (in the 1.000's) died at the hands of the Western-sponsored Ukrainian army. This angle of the story was hardly ever told in the West but now we are supposed to believe that Russian soldiers were raping infants in Bucha etc. Not buying that.
> 
> _Anyway I don't condone civilian killings in Ukraine or even the war (humans are humans after all) what I strongly object to is the disgusting Western hypocrisy. That is why nobody outside of the very same West is strongly condemning Russia or following suit in terms of sanctions etc.
> 
> Because people have realized that the West does not care about justice, democracy etc. as they like to preach. Only when it suits their own interests. When the opposite is the case, everything becomes legal.
> 
> There is a limit to how naive/stupid people can be and we have seen this playbook too many times by now already for people to swallow it again._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This Freudian slip illustrates this hypocrisy very well.





Khan2727 said:


> According to the UN less than 5.000 confirmed civilians have died in Ukraine in the past 4 months. That is peanuts compared to Western/US-led wars of the past. So the continuous propaganda in Western-controlled media of Russia deliberately trying to target civilians, is mostly bogus. For starters, no civilian deaths and wars are oxymorons. Such a thing does not exist. If Russia wanted they could have carpet bombed all of Ukraine by now and leaving very little left standing.
> 
> However what is even more hypocritical in this regard is the complete and utter silence during the Ukrainian onslaught on Donbass between 2014-2022 where a great number of local civilians (in the 1.000's) died at the hands of the Western-sponsored Ukrainian army. This angle of the story was hardly ever told in the West but now we are supposed to believe that Russian soldiers were raping infants in Bucha etc. Not buying that.
> 
> _Anyway I don't condone civilian killings in Ukraine or even the war (humans are humans after all) what I strongly object to is the disgusting Western hypocrisy. That is why nobody outside of the very same West is strongly condemning Russia or following suit in terms of sanctions etc.
> 
> Because people have realized that the West does not care about justice, democracy etc. as they like to preach. Only when it suits their own interests. When the opposite is the case, everything becomes legal.
> 
> There is a limit to how naive/stupid people can be and we have seen this playbook too many times by now already for people to swallow it again._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This Freudian slip illustrates this hypocrisy very well.


It turns out that 90-95% of those killed in ”Western” wars in the Middle East are killed by the locals themselves or Islamist Mercenaries.
Plenty of those civilians killed in the later years are killed in air strikes requested by the Iraqi Army.
To use your argumentation style:
*The hypocricy of those blaming the West for their own actions is astounding.*

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## khansaheeb

British-led Dark Angels team blast Russian positions with a Javelin anti-tank missiles​

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## WotTen

A.P. Richelieu said:


> It turns out that 90-95% of those killed in ”Western” wars in the Middle East are killed by the locals themselves or Islamist Mercenaries.



That's SOP for the puppet masters. Even in colonial times, most of the killing was done by locally hired soldiers.

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## khansaheeb

Ukraine war: 80% of troops killed or injured in elite military unit, says commander​

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## A.P. Richelieu

WotTen said:


> That's SOP for the puppet masters. Even in colonial times, most of the killing was done by locally hired soldiers.


Does not change the picture a lot.

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## WotTen

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Does not change the picture a lot.
> View attachment 856828



The whole mechanism to destroy a society is to flood it with guns and let the locals kill each other. If necessary, one or more local thugs are supported by the puppeteers.

There is a whole sociology about the prevalence of alcohol and gun shops in black neighborhoods across America.

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## Apollon

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> EU no longer needs oil or gas as it is going all electric.



EU already ended coal and oil from russia


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## ZeGerman

Severodonetsk pre war 110.000 population.

Russia “liberation” commences

Russia flattens city. 100.000 flee (vast majority towards western ukraine)

Russia conquers city.
Those staying are the few that are ok with “russki mir”

Russia shows these handfull, “look how happy they are with their russian liberators!”
Lets just ignore what is practically ethnic cleansing of the other 90%.

Rinse and repeat to any other town that shows resistance.

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## mazeto

Hmm.. Looks like pro-Russian posters are being selectively silenced while posters openly cheering selling of Russian bones as trophies are making merry. Guess it has got to be due to the downward trajectory of the Ukrainian military which cannot be papered over anymore.
The deja vu of the Syrian war is all over the place. A legit power vs a motivated gaggle of militias supplied by multitudes of countries. After initial reverses, the legit and cohesive power makes slow but consistent progress, grinding the extremists into the dust one village and one town at a time. The suppliers to the militias, like in Syria, is finally seeing the writing on the wall and starting to doubt themselves. Sooner or later they will slink away in the dark of night leaving the Ukros high and dry. But there won't be a Turkey this time to create an Idlib in Lviv.
Meanwhile Lithuania is doing a fine job of trying to provoke a fight between the NATO and Russia, and between EU and China.
If they continue to block Russian goods Russia can operate in the grey-zone: it's navy can do a " soft" blockade of Lithuanian ports by boarding random ships on suspicion of piracy or drug running.
* are there any Syrians helping Russia? If not it would be a great shame, the Russians gave their blood to save your ***. Or the Russian can use Hezbollah teams for sniping, ATGM roles etc with a quid pro quo.. they get captured NATO anti air and ATGMs!

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## ZeGerman

A.P. Richelieu said:


> It turns out that 90-95% of those killed in ”Western” wars in the Middle East are killed by the locals themselves or Islamist Mercenaries.
> Plenty of those civilians killed in the later years are killed in air strikes requested by the Iraqi Army.
> To use your argumentation style:
> *The hypocricy of those blaming the West for their own actions is astounding.*
> View attachment 856825



Let alone he is using a preliminary figure that its source itself states is an underrepresentation:

“OHCHR believes that the actual figures are considerably higher, as the receipt of information from some locations where intense hostilities have been going on has been delayed and many reports are still pending corroboration. This concerns, for example, Mariupol (Donetsk region), Izium (Kharkiv region), and Popasna (Luhansk region), where there are allegations of numerous civilian casualties.”


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## Apollon

mazeto said:


> Hmm.. Looks like pro-Russian posters are being selectively silenced while posters openly cheering selling of Russian bones as trophies are making merry. Guess it has got to be due to the downward trajectory of the Ukrainian military which cannot be papered over anymore.
> The deja vu of the Syrian war is all over the place. A legit power vs a motivated gaggle of militias supplied by multitudes of countries. After initial reverses, the legit and cohesive power makes slow but consistent progress, grinding the extremists into the dust one village and one town at a time. The suppliers to the militias, like in Syria, is finally seeing the writing on the wall and starting to doubt themselves. Sooner or later they will slink away in the dark of night leaving the Ukros high and dry. But there won't be a Turkey this time to create an Idlib in Lviv.
> Meanwhile Lithuania is doing a fine job of trying to provoke a fight between the NATO and Russia, and between EU and China.
> If they continue to block Russian goods Russia can operate in the grey-zone: it's navy can do a " soft" blockade of Lithuanian ports by boarding random ships on suspicion of piracy or drug running.



No they cant. Russian ships are banned from entering european waters. So good luck with that. 


Meanwhile we demilitarize russia


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## ZeGerman

mazeto said:


> Hmm.. Looks like pro-Russian posters are being selectively silenced while posters openly cheering selling of Russian bones as trophies are making merry. Guess it has got to be due to the downward trajectory of the Ukrainian military which cannot be papered over anymore.
> The deja vu of the Syrian war is all over the place. A legit power vs a motivated gaggle of militias supplied by multitudes of countries. After initial reverses, the legit and cohesive power makes slow but consistent progress, grinding the extremists into the dust one village and one town at a time. The suppliers to the militias, like in Syria, is finally seeing the writing on the wall and starting to doubt themselves. Sooner or later they will slink away in the dark of night leaving the Ukros high and dry. But there won't be a Turkey this time to create an Idlib in Lviv.
> Meanwhile Lithuania is doing a fine job of trying to provoke a fight between the NATO and Russia, and between EU and China.
> If they continue to block Russian goods Russia can operate in the grey-zone: it's navy can do a " soft" blockade of Lithuanian ports by boarding random ships on suspicion of piracy or drug running.


That is because these “pro-russian” are basically constantly copy-pasting the worst of the russian/chechen state propaganda.

And here you are comparing the legit sovereign state of ukraine as being as illegitimate as certain extremist syrian militias. 
Just like putin questioned their statehood for his war of agression and annexation.


----------



## mazeto

Apollon said:


> No they cant. Russian ships are banned from entering european waters. So good luck with that.
> 
> 
> Meanwhile we demilitarize russia


 Lithuania being so small, the Russian can easily intercept all their shipping in
" international " waters. They can just delay shipments till insurance and shipping companies give up. Something like how China slapped them around.. without raising a hand.



ZeGerman said:


> That is because these “pro-russian” are basically constantly copy-pasting the worst of the russian/chechen state propaganda.
> 
> And here you are comparing the legit sovereign state of ukraine as being as illegitimate as certain extremist syrian militias.
> Just like putin questioned their statehood for his war of agression and annexation.


 I saw a video in which an NCO level Ukrainian soldier was giving a rats *** to Zelensky standing right next to him and giving him instructions. Zelensky had to repeatedly remind that cavalier soldier that he is the presidential of Ukraine. 
So Ukraine is technically a legal state, but it doesn't have the gravitas of one.

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## Apollon

mazeto said:


> Lithuania being so small, the Russian can easily intercept all their shipping in
> " international " waters. They can just delay shipments till insurance and shipping companies give up. Something like how China slapped them around.. without raising a hand.
> 
> 
> I saw a video in which an NCO level Ukrainian soldier was giving a rats *** to Zelensky standing right next to him and giving him instructions. Zelensky had to repeatedly remind that cavalier soldier that he is the presidential of Ukraine.
> So Ukraine is technically a legal state, but it doesn't have the gravitas of one.



Lithuania is EU and NATO. And according to EU sanction article 5 no russian ship is allowed to enter EU waters. Remember what happened to russian flagship moskva


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## mazeto

Apollon said:


> Lithuania is EU and NATO. And according to EU sanction article 5 no russian ship is allowed to enter EU waters. Remember what happened to russian flagship moskva


 They can be intercepted outside the territorial waters, which is outside the " EU" waters. 
Btw the EU is said to be already backpedalling and trying to find a loophole for Russia to continue carrying goods across Lithuania. 
So much for your bluster 🤣

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## Apollon

mazeto said:


> They can be intercepted outside the territorial waters, which is outside the " EU" waters.
> Btw the EU is said to be already backpedalling and trying to find a loophole for Russia to continue carrying goods across Lithuania.
> So much for your bluster 🤣



Russia has no acess to those waters amigo. Maybe look at a map. 

So far EU backpedals nowhere. Its closed and will stay closed. 👍


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## MH.Yang

Let me remind you. After China imposed trade sanctions on Lithuania, Lithuania's current CPI has exceeded 20%. The inflation rate is the second highest in the world, second only to Turkey, and worse than Sri Lanka. But the western media will not report on Lithuania's economic situation, because they do not want others to see how the USA abandoned their dogs. 

Now they are questioning that Greta Thunberg is a Russian spy, because Europe now needs to use coal, and they must abandon and discredit some former heroes.

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## Apollon

MH.Yang said:


> Let me remind you. After China imposed trade sanctions on Lithuania, Lithuania's current CPI has exceeded 20%. The inflation rate is the second highest in the world, second only to Turkey, and worse than Sri Lanka. But the western media will not report on Lithuania's economic situation, because they do not want others to see how the USA abandoned their dogs.
> 
> Now they are questioning that Greta Thunberg is a Russian spy, because Europe now needs to use coal, and they must abandon and discredit some former heroes.
> 
> View attachment 856870



Lithuania is in EU and thus the effect on people there is small.

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## MeFishToo

MH.Yang said:


> Let me remind you. After China imposed trade sanctions on Lithuania, Lithuania's current CPI has exceeded 20%. The inflation rate is the second highest in the world, second only to Turkey, and worse than Sri Lanka. But the western media will not report on Lithuania's economic situation, because they do not want others to see how the USA abandoned their dogs.
> 
> Now they are questioning that Greta Thunberg is a Russian spy, because Europe now needs to use coal, and they must abandon and discredit some former heroes.
> 
> View attachment 856870


The inflation in Lithuania is driven by effects of corona, higher energy prices and the war in Ukraine. It has nothing to do with Chinas export embargo or informal secundary sanctions. And its no secret. Every such claim is followed by “western media will not report it”, insinuating this claim is then somehow validated.


----------



## MH.Yang

MeFishToo said:


> The inflation in Lithuania is driven by effects of corona, higher energy prices and the war in Ukraine. It has nothing to do with Chinas export embargo or informal secundary sanctions. And its no secret. Every such claim is followed by “western media will not report it”, insinuating this claim is then somehow validated.


Lithuania's CPI has suddenly risen sharply since August 2021. In November 2021, Lithuania's CPI has exceeded 10%. The Ukrainian war broke out at the end of February 2022.

Don't you find that the reason you said has a time problem?

Of course, the western media will certainly say that the deterioration of Lithuania's economic situation is due to the Ukrainian war, not because it tests China for the USA. In that case, the USA has no obligation to save Lithuania.

The fact is that Americans treat these small countries like a piece of toilet paper. Throw it away after you use it.

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## Vergennes

Russian propagandists panic: the new Western artillery and missile systems are aimed with deadly accuracy at operations centers and ammunition dumps far behind the front lines.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540666030313406464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540925903345156098

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540762454753349632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540985937416658946

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## Ali_Baba

F-22Raptor said:


> There’s rumors on social media that the HIMARS strike on Russian command posts have killed up to 25 Russian Generals and high ranking officers which is why Putins vehicle was seen rushing back to the Kremlin to talk with force commanders. TIFWIW



Think you are right that Ukraine hit something important and it has hurt them for sure - as the Russian have hit Kyiv in response.









Many injured after Russian rockets pound residential block in Kyiv


Several large bangs shook Kyiv around 6.30am and rescue workers were seen battling to save civilians from burning apartment blocks. They were the first strikes on Kyiv since June 5.




www.dailymail.co.uk


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## MH.Yang

Ukrainian govt troops have withdrawn from northern Donetsk. With the loss of northern Donetsk, Ukrainian govt troops have no possibility to hold lisichansk. The Ukrainian army should soon abandon lichansk. Then there should be the slavyansk defensive battle. 


In fact, what macron said is not wrong. Now Ukraine has lost most of its veterans, and the temporary replenishment of civilians, no matter how many, is useless. Ukraine should be more rational and negotiate with Russia as soon as possible. If it continues, if the Ukrainian govt forces suffer a large-scale rout, it is likely to arouse greater ambitions of the Russians.

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## ZeGerman

MH.Yang said:


> Ukrainian govt troops have withdrawn from northern Donetsk. With the loss of northern Donetsk, Ukrainian govt troops have no possibility to hold lisichansk. The Ukrainian army should soon abandon lichansk. Then there should be the slavyansk defensive battle.
> 
> 
> In fact, what macron said is not wrong. Now Ukraine has lost most of its veterans, and the temporary replenishment of civilians, no matter how many, is useless. Ukraine should be more rational and negotiate with Russia as soon as possible. If it continues, if the Ukrainian govt forces suffer a large-scale rout, it is likely to arouse greater ambitions of the Russians.
> 
> 
> View attachment 856894
> 
> View attachment 856895


Ah yes, that large scale rout we have been hearing daily from pro-russians for months now. 

Lets see them advance faster then a half a km a day ok?



yari said:


> is ukraine's government legit though? maybe don't topple a fairly elected russia leaning government and this wouldn't have happened


Yes. Zelenski won by 73% which is far more then yanukovich initially got. 
I guess “faily elected” only counts for you when it is anti-west? 



also lets not forget yanukovich ripped up a major election promise (closer ties to eu) which got him running to his russian friends and judged traitor to the country.


----------



## MH.Yang

ZeGerman said:


> Ah yes, that large scale rout we have been hearing daily from pro-russians for months now.
> 
> Lets see them advance faster then a half a km a day ok?
> 
> 
> Yes. Zelenski won by 73% which is far more then yanukovich initially got.
> I guess “faily elected” only counts for you when it is anti-west?
> 
> 
> 
> also lets not forget yanukovich ripped up a major election promise (closer ties to eu) which got him running to his russian friends and judged traitor to the country.


Pro Russia? We are truly neutral. The assessment of the Ukrainian battlefield was based only on the facts and my interest. 
In fact, proceeding from China's interests, the peace talks between Ukraine and Russia do not conform to China's interests.

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## Get Ya Wig Split

@thai hai chan 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540925903345156098


----------



## jhungary

yari said:


> is ukraine's government legit though? maybe don't topple a *fairly elected russia leaning government* and this wouldn't have happened


You mean that Yanukovych government that only have 48.9% of vote and only have 30% of Rada, and that is on top of allegation of election fraud? That government??


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

@thai hai


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540264761329274883


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## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> Pro Russia? We are truly neutral. The assessment of the Ukrainian battlefield was based only on the facts and my interest.
> In fact, proceeding from China's interests, the peace talks between Ukraine and Russia do not conform to China's interests.


Again, you really should have stick to stuff that you know, because your "interest" does not even able to digest the entire situation. 

There are no strategic interest in Sieverodonetsk other than it is the last pocket in Luhansk. The Ukrainian have been gaining a lot of ground in the south in Kherson and in the North in Kharkiv while they dump force into Sieverodonetsk and hinder the Russian advance there. 

That is so evidence that they have taken Popansa (East of Lysychansk ) since early May but still not able to close that gap after 2 months of fighting. Had the Russian force focus on Popasna, they would have already be encircling the Ukrainian force between Kramatorsk and Lysychansk.

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## Wergeland

_Nabil_ said:


> Today in Oslo
> 
> View attachment 856797
> 
> 
> Seriously Ukrainian soldiers dying for their country deserve better than this ....



Hmm would like to see them parade into Azovstal and see how the Azov guys react.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Apollon said:


> EU already ended coal and oil from russia



Yes, EU will buy Oil from GCC, North Africa & US and Coal from Australia.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540952842328051712

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## kingQamaR

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Yes, EU will buy Oil from GCC, North Africa & US and Coal from Australia.



What most people don't realize is that sanctions boycotting Russian oil only helped Russia. The sanctions caused a big spike in oil price, and Russia is still able to sell its oil to nations not participating in the boycott such as China and India. They also require payments for the oil to be made in Rubles. So in the end Russia got a huge increase to their petro revenues as well as a strengthened Ruble (which also lowers their cost of imports). At the same time the sanctions pummeled the west since we're paying higher oil prices. If the West really wants to punish Russia, we should drop the sanctions and incentivize our oil industry to crank up production

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540930932911116289

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540982108231184385

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## jhungary

kingQamaR said:


> What most people don't realize is that sanctions boycotting Russian oil only helped Russia. The sanctions caused a big spike in oil price, and Russia is still able to sell its oil to nations not participating in the boycott such as China and India. They also require payments for the oil to be made in Rubles. So in the end Russia got a huge increase to their petro revenues as well as a strengthened Ruble (which also lowers their cost of imports). At the same time the sanctions pummeled the west since we're paying higher oil prices. If the West really wants to punish Russia, we should drop the sanctions and incentivize our oil industry to crank up production


Actually, if US wanted to lower oil price, they could by taxing the Oil Company and force them to drill into reserve and increase production. Which they are probably 1 or 2 months away from doing them. US oil production jumped about 1 million bbl per day, that's not remotely enough to go over the gap

The problem is, why Exxon, BP and Shell want to do it when they can sell oil now for $120-$130 per barrel, I mean, doing so will just shoot themselves in their own foot. And Biden is too weak to push these oil giant (at least for now), Biden administration would most likely need to do those measure closer to Mid-Term because they can't afford high gas price during Mid-Term. But right now, there are nothing they can do.

On the other hand, once the US did that. then Russia will suffer, it's not logical to have oil price persisted at $120 a barrel. That would inflate a lot of basic infrastructure. Which mean the US is going to move to produce more, and most likely force OPEC to do the same, once that is done, Oil price would come back down to around 80 or 90 per barrel. When that happen, it would be game over for Russia, see, right now Russia is discounting their oil to sell to India and China, you can do that when oil price is high, but once it get back down to below 100 a barrel, then discount will not make sense because you can't earn money if the oil price is low. On the other hand, once EU decouple Russia oil (2023-2024ish) there are going to be surplus that even India and China cannot handle (you are talking about 4 to 5 millions barrel a day) India and China will only buy what they need plus what they can stash, any more than that is just wastage.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540720496676769792

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## A.P. Richelieu

WotTen said:


> The whole mechanism to destroy a society is to flood it with guns and let the locals kill each other. If necessary, one or more local thugs are supported by the puppeteers.
> 
> There is a whole sociology about the prevalence of alcohol and gun shops in black neighborhoods across America.


Yes, that is what Iran and the Gulf States including KSA did, both in Iraq and Syria.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

De-Nazification is in full speed!



Spoiler: GRAPHIC: Ukrainian troops were ambushed and dead bodies are littering the ground. 





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540989680807714817







Vergennes said:


> Russian propagandists panic: the new Western artillery and missile systems are aimed with deadly accuracy at operations centers and ammunition dumps far behind the front lines.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540666030313406464



Hitting schools became something to brag about? That is a desperation if you ask me. Now, how about this? 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540986789011537920

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540993634304233475

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

jhungary said:


> Actually, if US wanted to lower oil price, they could by taxing the Oil Company and force them to drill into reserve and increase production. Which they are probably 1 or 2 months away from doing them. US oil production jumped about 1 million bbl per day, that's not remotely enough to go over the gap
> 
> The problem is, why Exxon, BP and Shell want to do it when they can sell oil now for $120-$130 per barrel, I mean, doing so will just shoot themselves in their own foot. And Biden is too weak to push these oil giant (at least for now), Biden administration would most likely need to do those measure closer to Mid-Term because they can't afford high gas price during Mid-Term. But right now, there are nothing they can do.
> 
> On the other hand, once the US did that. then Russia will suffer, it's not logical to have oil price persisted at $120 a barrel. That would inflate a lot of basic infrastructure. Which mean the US is going to move to produce more, and most likely force OPEC to do the same, once that is done, Oil price would come back down to around 80 or 90 per barrel. When that happen, it would be game over for Russia, see, right now Russia is discounting their oil to sell to India and China, you can do that when oil price is high, but once it get back down to below 100 a barrel, then discount will not make sense because you can't earn money if the oil price is low. On the other hand, once EU decouple Russia oil (2023-2024ish) there are going to be surplus that even India and China cannot handle (you are talking about 4 to 5 millions barrel a day) India and China will only buy what they need plus what they can stash, any more than that is just wastage.



The first thing that was signed by Biden was scrapping the Keystone XL pipeline. Oil companies are not investing as they see no future for oil beyond another 5 years. All car companies are phasing out IC engine cars and moving to all electric cars in the next 5 years.

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## A.P. Richelieu

yari said:


> doesn't matter, ukraine elected a government in fair elections, that government was ousted not by a subsequent fair election but a color revolution, ukraine nazis ambushed peaceful russia loving ukranians and incinerated them, if ukraine was so pro eu why not just wait to the polls instead of inciting violence and chaos influencing voters
> btw where in the world does anyone get 73% in voting except corrupt shitholes


Ukraine elected a parliament and a President. The President fled when he was about to be impeached. He remained President until the end of his term but an acting President was elected since he refused to do his job.
Ukraine held new elections as planned in 2015. The Parliament continued working.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541031071072002049

Russia launched missiles into civilian apartment buildings in Kyiv today. Another in a long list of Russian war crimes


----------



## kingQamaR

jhungary said:


> Actually, if US wanted to lower oil price, they could by taxing the Oil Company and force them to drill into reserve and increase production. Which they are probably 1 or 2 months away from doing them. US oil production jumped about 1 million bbl per day, that's not remotely enough to go over the gap
> 
> The problem is, why Exxon, BP and Shell want to do it when they can sell oil now for $120-$130 per barrel, I mean, doing so will just shoot themselves in their own foot. And Biden is too weak to push these oil giant (at least for now), Biden administration would most likely need to do those measure closer to Mid-Term because they can't afford high gas price during Mid-Term. But right now, there are nothing they can do.
> 
> On the other hand, once the US did that. then Russia will suffer, it's not logical to have oil price persisted at $120 a barrel. That would inflate a lot of basic infrastructure. Which mean the US is going to move to produce more, and most likely force OPEC to do the same, once that is done, Oil price would come back down to around 80 or 90 per barrel. When that happen, it would be game over for Russia, see, right now Russia is discounting their oil to sell to India and China, you can do that when oil price is high, but once it get back down to below 100 a barrel, then discount will not make sense because you can't earn money if the oil price is low. On the other hand, once EU decouple Russia oil (2023-2024ish) there are going to be surplus that even India and China cannot handle (you are talking about 4 to 5 millions barrel a day) India and China will only buy what they need plus what they can stash, any more than that is just wastage.



Russia exports about 5 million bbl/day of crude oil and another ~4 million bbl/day of refined products. OPEC produces about 40 million bbl/day. OPEC has decided to increase production by 0.4 million bbl/day but appears unable to increase production by that amount without massive further investment.

Middle Eastern oil producers simply do not have the capacity to make up for foregone Russian exports.

If sanctions against Russian oil were completely effective, the price of oil would skyrocket, the world economy would collapse and political instability would ensue. However, sanctions are unlikely to have more than a 10–20% effect on Russian exports. China and India will be happy to purchase Russian oil at a discount and many third parties will emerge who will re-label Russian products as their own. When there is money to be made, Russian oil will find its buyers.

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## Apollon

kingQamaR said:


> What most people don't realize is that sanctions boycotting Russian oil only helped Russia. The sanctions caused a big spike in oil price, and Russia is still able to sell its oil to nations not participating in the boycott such as China and India. They also require payments for the oil to be made in Rubles. So in the end Russia got a huge increase to their petro revenues as well as a strengthened Ruble (which also lowers their cost of imports). At the same time the sanctions pummeled the west since we're paying higher oil prices. If the West really wants to punish Russia, we should drop the sanctions and incentivize our oil industry to crank up production



How about we keep sanctions and crank up own production. Sounds better

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## jhungary

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> The first thing that was signed by Biden was scrapping the Keystone XL pipeline. Oil companies are not investing as they see no future for oil beyond another 5 years. All car companies are phasing out IC engine cars and moving to all electric cars in the next 5 years.


Keystone XL is processing pipeline, this is not the main transport pipeline. 



kingQamaR said:


> Russia exports about 5 million bbl/day of crude oil and another ~4 million bbl/day of refined products. OPEC produces about 40 million bbl/day. OPEC has decided to increase production by 0.4 million bbl/day but appears unable to increase production by that amount without massive further investment.
> 
> Middle Eastern oil producers simply do not have the capacity to make up for foregone Russian exports.
> 
> If sanctions against Russian oil were completely effective, the price of oil would skyrocket, the world economy would collapse and political instability would ensue. However, sanctions are unlikely to have more than a 10–20% effect on Russian exports. China and India will be happy to purchase Russian oil at a discount and many third parties will emerge who will re-label Russian products as their own. When there is money to be made, Russian oil will find its buyers.



Look at it this way, whatever China and Indian is buying from before the war is going to be switching to supply EU which was left void by the Russian gas, at the same time, Russia would supply China and India for cheap gas. 

Problem is, you don't have the infrastructure to switch, and that's for both side, and eventually, as I said, oil price is going to come down, either the switch is successfully made, or US increase their oil production, and once that happen, Russia would be in worse shape because they need to sell that cheap to China and India. 

It is not going to be effective in 4 months, this is going to be a long term thing.

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## _Nabil_

jhungary said:


> Actually, if US wanted to lower oil price, they could by taxing the Oil Company and force them to drill into reserve and increase production. Which they are probably 1 or 2 months away from doing them. US oil production jumped about 1 million bbl per day, that's not remotely enough to go over the gap
> 
> The problem is, why Exxon, BP and Shell want to do it when they can sell oil now for $120-$130 per barrel, I mean, doing so will just shoot themselves in their own foot. And Biden is too weak to push these oil giant (at least for now), Biden administration would most likely need to do those measure closer to Mid-Term because they can't afford high gas price during Mid-Term. But right now, there are nothing they can do.
> 
> On the other hand, once the US did that. then Russia will suffer, it's not logical to have oil price persisted at $120 a barrel. That would inflate a lot of basic infrastructure. Which mean the US is going to move to produce more, and most likely force OPEC to do the same, once that is done, Oil price would come back down to around 80 or 90 per barrel. When that happen, it would be game over for Russia, see, right now Russia is discounting their oil to sell to India and China, you can do that when oil price is high, but once it get back down to below 100 a barrel, then discount will not make sense because you can't earn money if the oil price is low. On the other hand, once EU decouple Russia oil (2023-2024ish) there are going to be surplus that even India and China cannot handle (you are talking about 4 to 5 millions barrel a day) India and China will only buy what they need plus what they can stash, any more than that is just wastage.


Oil price in December 2021 was $74, Russians most optimistic predictions where on that basis, so even if the Oil prices go down to $80-90 it's still good for them.

China and India won't stop buying rebated Oil, they are eager to boost their economy and be more competitive than US/ UE.

Russian won't give back any conquered land, don't be delusional, the West should settle for peace and look forward.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541038844623175685


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## MH.Yang

The bad news is that the temperature is high.

The good news is that coal can be used to generate electricity again.

The bad news is that many coal mines have been closed, and many enterprises producing coal machinery and equipment have been patented by the Chinese, even the company itself.

The good news is that the mechanical equipment made in China is no worse than that made in Germany.

The bad news is that even with the equipment in place, there are not enough skilled workers to dig coal.

The good news is that Ukraine has enough skilled coal workers.

The bad news is that Ukrainian coal workers are mainly concentrated in Donbas, the Russian speaking region in the East.

The good news is that the introduction of modern and intelligent coal mines in China does not require many workers at all.

The bad news is that modern and intelligent mines need Huawei 5G.

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## Apollon

_Nabil_ said:


> Oil price in December 2021 was $74, Russians most optimistic predictions where on that basis, so even if the Oil prices go down to $80-90 it's still good for them.
> 
> China and India won't stop buying rebated Oil, they are eager to boost their economy and be more competitive than US/ UE.
> 
> Russian won't give back any conquered land, don't be delusional, the West should settle for peace and look forward.



Why should we settle for peace? We currently demilitarize russia. Kill high numbers of their command staff and destroy their equipment. Russia is broken for decades to replace those losses


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541030631886536711

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## Viet

kingQamaR said:


> What most people don't realize is that sanctions boycotting Russian oil only helped Russia. The sanctions caused a big spike in oil price, and Russia is still able to sell its oil to nations not participating in the boycott such as China and India. They also require payments for the oil to be made in Rubles. So in the end Russia got a huge increase to their petro revenues as well as a strengthened Ruble (which also lowers their cost of imports). At the same time the sanctions pummeled the west since we're paying higher oil prices. If the West really wants to punish Russia, we should drop the sanctions and incentivize our oil industry to crank up production


Look, I bought a new car before invasion. Ok now fuel prices hit the roof. at the moment I pay about 100 euros to fill my car tank. I am thinking to switch to electric car I would pay 1/3 or 1/2. That’s lot of savings in the long run. Putin earns lots of money now but he pushes people like me to EVs, he destroys the European market in 5 years.
There is a rule when doing business. If you kill your customer you kills yourself.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541040652196233217


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## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> Again, you really should have stick to stuff that you know, because your "interest" does not even able to digest the entire situation.
> 
> There are no strategic interest in Sieverodonetsk other than it is the last pocket in Luhansk. The Ukrainian have been gaining a lot of ground in the south in Kherson and in the North in Kharkiv while they dump force into Sieverodonetsk and hinder the Russian advance there.
> 
> That is so evidence that they have taken Popansa (East of Lysychansk ) since early May but still not able to close that gap after 2 months of fighting. Had the Russian force focus on Popasna, they would have already be encircling the Ukrainian force between Kramatorsk and Lysychansk.


I suggest you take a closer look at the map of Ukraine. The terrain of Lysychansk is in a long strip shape along the mountain, with a very small depth. It's not suitable for defense. The Ukrainian army will not waste its already scarce troops there. I think they will retreat from Lysychansk. The next offensive and defensive battle will take place in Slavyansk.

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## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> The bad news is that the temperature is high.
> 
> The good news is that coal can be used to generate electricity again.
> 
> The bad news is that many coal mines have been closed, and many enterprises producing coal machinery and equipment have been patented by the Chinese, even the company itself.
> 
> The good news is that the mechanical equipment made in China is no worse than that made in Germany.
> 
> The bad news is that even with the equipment in place, there are not enough skilled workers to dig coal.
> 
> The good news is that Ukraine has enough skilled coal workers.
> 
> The bad news is that Ukrainian coal workers are mainly concentrated in Donbas, the Russian speaking region in the East.
> 
> The good news is that the introduction of modern and intelligent coal mines in China does not require many workers at all.
> 
> The bad news is that modern and intelligent mines need Huawei 5G.


What a nonsense
Germany has coal reserves enough for decades. There are lots of countries outside China with huge coal reserves. Australia, Indonesia to name a few. Vietnam’s coal reserves for instance are enough for hundreds of years.

Germany don’t rely on China. technology, workers, coal are here available.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541042865895350273

Even US Generals know the Russian command are morons and terrorists.

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## MH.Yang

Viet said:


> Look, I bought a new car before invasion. Ok now fuel prices hit the roof. at the moment I pay about 100 euros to fill my car tank. I am thinking to switch to electric car I would pay 1/3 or 1/2. That’s lot of savings in the long run. Putin earns lots of money now but he pushes people like me to EVs, he destroys the European market in 5 years.
> There is a rule when doing business. If you kill your customer you kills yourself.


Is there a possibility that most of the patents and markets of the clean energy industry, including lithium batteries, electric vehicles, photovoltaic and other commodities, belong to China?

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## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> I suggest you take a closer look at the map of Ukraine. The terrain of Lysychansk is in a long strip shape along the mountain, with a very small depth. It's not suitable for defense. The Ukrainian army will not waste its already scarce troops there. I think they will retreat from Lysychansk. The next offensive and defensive battle will take place in Slavyansk.


And I suggest you go study some military science.

There is a big elevation behind Lysychansk, that is the reason why Russia have problem crossing the river, and you have farm surrounding the sieversky donet river, which make it a very good BUND line. Do you even know what BUND is?

The river will make it as a funnel to Russian troop because you cannot have the entire force crossing the river at the same time, at the same time, The defilade around the high ground would be prefer for bombing whatever you got funnelled. Because you put artillery on the other side of ant slope, you can reach the Russian, the Russian cannot reach yours.

Base on all that, it is NOT possible to have a frontal assault over Lysychansk from Sieverodonetsk without unacceptable casualty, that is the exact definition of deadly funnel. That is why Popasna is important, because you go from the East, it's flat land until you reach Lysychansk

Please do not talk to me about Military Science, especially when you have zero knowledge of the topic. Again, try focus on stuff that you do know instead of talking back to someone who know their shit when you know nothing......


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## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> Is there a possibility that most of the patents and markets of the clean energy industry, including lithium batteries, electric vehicles, photovoltaic and other commodities, belong to China?


Ok tell me what chinese is in Audi Q4?
This is a British version the German version I saw it at the showroom costs about 55,000 euros.


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## MH.Yang

Viet said:


> Ok tell me what chinese is in Audi Q4?
> This is a British version the German version I saw it at the showroom costs about 55,000 euros.


Do you know the German name of Audi Q4 battery?
Is it possible that the core technology of Audi Q4 comes from China?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541048918301106176


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## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> And I suggest you go study some military science.
> 
> There is a big elevation behind Lysychansk, that is the reason why Russia have problem crossing the river, and you have farming surrounding the sieversky donet river, which make it a very good BUND line. Do you even know what BUND is?
> 
> The river will make it as a funnel to Russian troop because you cannot have the entire force crossing the river at the same time, at the same time, The defilade around the high ground would be prefer for bombing whatever you got funnelled. Because you put artillery on the other side of ant slope, you can reach the Russian, the Russian cannot reach yours.
> 
> Base on all that, it is NOT possible to have a frontal assault over Lysychansk from Sieverodonetsk without unacceptable casualty, that is the exact definition of deadly funnel. That is why Popasna is important, because you go from the East, it's flat land until you reach Lysychansk
> 
> Please do not talk to me about Military Science, especially when you have zero knowledge of the topic. Again, try focus on stuff that you do know instead of talking back to someone who know their shit when you know nothing......


I think the Ukrainian army will give up lysychansk, and you think the Ukrainian army will stick to lysychansk.
OK, let's wait patiently. In a few days we will know where the next offensive and defensive war will break out.

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## jhungary

_Nabil_ said:


> Oil price in December 2021 was $74, Russians most optimistic predictions where on that basis, so even if the Oil prices go down to $80-90 it's still good for them.



Not when you are selling your oil with 30-40% discount. if it went to $80, it will not be profitable for them, they will either have to stop offering that discount or they would need to find new client. 



_Nabil_ said:


> China and India won't stop buying rebated Oil, they are eager to boost their economy and be more competitive than US/ UE.



Again, there are two things you buy oil for, one is your daily usage, the other is strategic reserve, anymore than that would be a waste. There is a limit as for what China and India can buy, sure, now they can get as much as they want, but to a point, they would have more than they need, then the basic economic principal kicks in, why would you buy more than you need? 



_Nabil_ said:


> Russian won't give back any conquered land, don't be delusional, the West should settle for peace and look forward.


Well, US occupied Afghanistan for 20 years, tell me who own those land now?

Problem is, unless for whatever reason Ukraine does not start an insurgency, which is basically the most naïve thinking there are as they already died for their land for the last 120 with overwhelming odds no less with little to no NATO help, Depends on how much Russia can devote, but to occupy those land for 20 years is nearly impossible for Russia to do. There are already partisan fighting behind Russian line. And we aren't really in the stage of occupation yet, this is going to turn out to be US, NATO tried to occupy Afghanistan, you are facing with a equally determined adversary, with economic sanction, without the resource the West have..

Unless Ukrainian wanted to be Russian, Russia would have a hard time occupying those land.

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## Asad1616

Paradigm shift in global politics


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## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> I think the Ukrainian army will give up lysychansk, and you think the Ukrainian army will stick to lysychansk.
> OK, let's wait patiently. In a few days we will know where the next offensive and defensive war will break out.


Dude, if they hold the Russian for 2 months in Sieverodonetsk, you are talking about a better defensive position. How long can they hold depends on two things. 

1.) How long it takes for Russian to break out from Popasna and attack Bakhmut 
2.) Sloviansk and Kramatorsk under threat. 

They can probably hold that line indefinitely unless 1 or 2 break. 

Again, you really should stop present yourself like a military person, because your "Prediction" is funny at best, illogical is probably the choice of my word.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541031071072002049
> 
> Russia launched missiles into civilian apartment buildings in Kyiv today. Another in a long list of Russian war crimes



Your fellow Ukrainians are launching unguided Tochka-U missile on the city of Stakhanov in Luhansk Oblast. So it seems you cheer the Ukrainians when they attack the civilians in Donbass region and in Russia but cry foul when Russian missiles inadvertently hit a building near a Ukrainian military facility. You can't have it both ways. Perhaps Ukrainians should keep their important military facilities in places far away from civilian areas!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540967839535882240

Meanwhile, the Russian attack on Kiev in the video that you referenced was targeting the “Artem” military manufacturing plant. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540952842328051712

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## BHAN85

MH.Yang said:


> The bad news is that the temperature is high.
> 
> The good news is that coal can be used to generate electricity again.
> 
> The bad news is that many coal mines have been closed, and many enterprises producing coal machinery and equipment have been patented by the Chinese, even the company itself.
> 
> The good news is that the mechanical equipment made in China is no worse than that made in Germany.
> 
> The bad news is that even with the equipment in place, there are not enough skilled workers to dig coal.
> 
> The good news is that Ukraine has enough skilled coal workers.
> 
> The bad news is that Ukrainian coal workers are mainly concentrated in Donbas, the Russian speaking region in the East.
> 
> The good news is that the introduction of modern and intelligent coal mines in China does not require many workers at all.
> 
> The bad news is that modern and intelligent mines need Huawei 5G.


Chinese can replace hammer and sickle by the robot and the drone.
And the Western Eye of Providence in China would be a Huawei 5g antenna inside a triangle.


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## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> Do you know the German name of Audi Q4 battery?
> Is it possible that the core technology of Audi Q4 comes from China?


Possible is possible. I don’t know from where Audi buys batteries, maybe China, maybe Korea. I don’t ask. It’s just I am not interested of Q4 because this Audi electric doesn’t offer the features I look for, full autonomous driving. They said the technology is still at infancy maybe in 2 or 3 years they will. Audi will bring out full autonomous driving.
German carmakers eventually make batteries it’s just taking some time. They are late. Tesla is faster.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541032289819402241

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## MH.Yang

Viet said:


> Possible is possible. I don’t know from where Audi buys batteries, maybe China, maybe Korea. I don’t ask. It’s just I am not interested of Q4 because this Audi electric doesn’t offer the features I look for, full autonomous driving. They said the technology is still at infancy maybe in 2 or 3 years they will. Audi will bring out full autonomous driving.


The battery of Audi Q4 is the NCM811 battery of China Ningde times group. As we all know, the core technology of electric vehicles is batteries. 


BTW: Almost all batteries of medium and high-end electric vehicles come from China.

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## K_Bin_W

MH.Yang said:


> Do you know the German name of Audi Q4 battery?
> Is it possible that the core technology of Audi Q4 comes from China?


Very possible these days its impossible to find anything without China.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541054900561481728


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## MeFishToo

MH.Yang said:


> Is there a possibility that most of the patents and markets of the clean energy industry, including lithium batteries, electric vehicles, photovoltaic and other commodities, belong to China?


Is there a possibillity that only 5-10% chineese patents are filled abroad, and the rest are just useless and boosted by government subsidies?


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## northeast

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541042865895350273
> 
> Even US Generals know the Russian command are morons and terrorists.


Terrorists know terrorists.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540927853142867968

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## northeast

MeFishToo said:


> Is there a possibillity that only 5-10% chineese patents are filled abroad, and the rest are just useless and boosted by government subsidies?


We are dominant in clean energy technology. European are just losers,don't blame us, blame your own incompetence.

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## MH.Yang

MeFishToo said:


> Is there a possibillity that only 5-10% chineese patents are filled abroad, and the rest are just useless and boosted by government subsidies?


If these patents are useless, how do the Chinese occupy most of the market of the new energy industry?



The following data are from the Nikkei news:

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## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> The battery of Audi Q4 is the NCM811 battery of China Ningde times group. As we all know, the core technology of electric vehicles is batteries.
> 
> 
> BTW: Almost all batteries of medium and high-end electric vehicles come from China.


Then you know more. I don’t know the market share. But anyway having most batteries coming from China means little. Most shirts and shoes come from Bangladesh, Vietnam avd China. That’s because making there is cheaper. Do we a shoe superpower?
Technology wise making combustion engines is hundreds times more complex and difficult. Battery is just anode and cathode. Material is just lithium, nickel and cadmium.
China technology supremacy is short lived.

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541024881944436738


----------



## MeFishToo

northeast said:


> We are dominant in clean energy technology. European are just losers,don't blame us, blame your own incompetence.


I live in a country dominated by windmills. I dont see anything chineese in the innovation of windmills here.
China copying other countries succes doesnt really tell me Europe is incompetent.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540927844603367425

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## MH.Yang

Viet said:


> Then you know more. I don’t know the market share. But anyway having most batteries coming from China means little. Most shirts and shoes come from Bangladesh, Vietnam avd China. That’s because making there is cheaper.


Are you suggesting that batteries are the cheapest part of electric cars? 
You are a real talent.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540918362489880576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540985693253533698

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## northeast

MeFishToo said:


> I live in a country dominated by windmills. I dont see anything chineese in the innovation of windmills here.


Yeah,because your high tariff. You are cheating in another word. We are dominant in the entire world nevertheless.

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## MH.Yang

MeFishToo said:


> I live in a country dominated by windmills. I dont see anything chineese in the innovation of windmills here.
> China copying other countries succes doesnt really tell me Europe is incompetent.


Well, I heard for the first time that patents can also be copied.
Thank you for letting me learn something new.

Also, are you sure that China's wind power is not strong enough?

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## Apollon

MH.Yang said:


> Is there a possibility that most of the patents and markets of the clean energy industry, including lithium batteries, electric vehicles, photovoltaic and other commodities, belong to China?



Nope


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541031400035520512

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541057158770475010

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## A.P. Richelieu

BHAN85 said:


> Chinese can replace hammer and sickle by the robot and the drone.
> And the Western Eye of Providence in China would be a Huawei 5g antenna inside a triangle.


Hardly anyone in the West is interested in Huawei 5G technology…


----------



## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> Are you suggesting that batteries are the cheapest part of electric cars?
> You are a real talent.


Nonsense
I just said making batteries is easier than making combustion engine.
Battery is expensive because the material is expensive. If lithium,nickel become cheaper then battery become cheaper.


----------



## MeFishToo

MH.Yang said:


> Well, I heard for the first time that patents can also be copied.
> Thank you for letting me learn something new.


I never said anything about copying patents. I said patents not applied abroad are worthless and driven by government subsidies.


----------



## MH.Yang

Viet said:


> Nonsense
> I just said making batteries is easier than making combustion engine.
> Battery is expensive because the material is expensive. If lithium,nickel become cheaper then battery become cheaper.


The core technology of electric vehicles is batteries.
As for internal combustion engines, many companies have the ability to manufacture them.

Of course, if you think the internal combustion engine is the core technology of electric vehicles. All right, whatever you want.

In any case, every time the West sells an electric vehicle, it needs to pay a battery royalty or battery purchase fee to Chinese enterprises. China can sell cars with its own internal combustion engine.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

A.P. Richelieu said:


> While there is plenty of trash in this forum from him, and many others,
> I believe Apollon simply informed the member that Germany does not have full freedom of speech, and that certain ”speech” is prosecutable if the member who lives in Europe happens to travel to Germany.
> So it is advise, more than a threat.
> 
> I might have read another post, of course,
> 
> Meanwhile, our Somalian friend who reported Apollon has at least 4 times published photos of dead Ukrainan soldiers, gloating about it.
> Reported and posts removed, but no sign of a ban.
> His continuous calling Ukrainans == Nazis is distasteful.​I would ask him to edit all old posts and remove such references.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540641083490713601

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540915545004023809

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## MeFishToo

northeast said:


> Yeah,because your high tariff. You are cheating in another word. We are dominant in the entire world nevertheless.


Cheating? Thats rich comming from a chineese cheerleader. I have coworkers who wouldnt even dream about shipping high tech equipment near the chineese border, when sending it around the world. China is well known for copying anything going through customs.


----------



## northeast

MeFishToo said:


> Cheating? Thats rich comming from a chineese cheerleader. I have coworkers who wouldnt even dream about shipping high tech equipment near the chineese border, when sending it around the world. China is well known for copying anything going through customs.


Whatever you say,european. You are in big trouble,not us. Good luck with your big ego.Let's wait and see who will be rising and who will be sinking in the coming decades.

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## MH.Yang

MeFishToo said:


> Cheating? Thats rich comming from a chineese cheerleader. I have coworkers who wouldnt even dream about shipping high tech equipment near the chineese border, when sending it around the world. China is well known for copying anything going through customs.


With all due respect, the USA is still strong in traditional industries. But in emerging industries, the power of the USA only exists in your imagination, as well as in the mouth of Western media and Internet users. 
As for Europe, you have nothing to be proud of. You have squandered the advantages your ancestors accumulated during the colonial era.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541004333097041920

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## MeFishToo

northeast said:


> Whatever you say,european. You are in big trouble,not us. Good luck with your big ego.Let's wait and see who will be rising and who will be sinking in the coming decades.


Im not the one boosting about my country. You guys are doing it pointing you selfrightious finger in the direction of Europe claiming were toast. I couldnt care less about Chinas success. Doesnt mean the rest of us end up peasants. Not everything is a zero sum game.


----------



## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> The core technology of electric vehicles is batteries.
> As for internal combustion engines, many companies have the ability to manufacture them.
> 
> Of course, if you think the internal combustion engine is the core technology of electric vehicles. All right, whatever you want.
> 
> In any case, every time the West sells an electric vehicle, it needs to pay a battery royalty or battery purchase fee to Chinese enterprises. China can sell cars with its own internal combustion engine.


I can understand you hype up because most batteries come from China but you are wrong. I am engineer I tell you.
The core technology of EV is the computer. Battery is just a dumb tech.
Tesla is a one trillion USD company because Tesla car has the most intelligent computer not the battery it buys from China.
If so easy then Vietnam can buy battery from China then we have lots of trillion dollar companies.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Forces from Chechnya and Dagestan republics in the Russian federation celebrate their victories over the Ukrainian forces in the Donbass region of DPR and LNR 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541039372564369409

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## jhungary

zartosht said:


> @jhungary


Does your post have a point?

I don't do dick measure stuff. If you have anything in substance, you are more than welcome to come at me, otherwise


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541032704342474753

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## MH.Yang

Viet said:


> I can understand you hype up because most batteries come from China but you are wrong. I am engineer I tell you.
> The core technology of EV is the computer. Battery is just a dumb tech.
> Tesla is a one trillion USD company because Tesla car has the most intelligent computer not the battery it buys from China.
> If so easy then Vietnam can buy battery from China then we have lots of trillion dollar companies.


Computer? You mean the electronic control system? 
Indeed, this is the second important technology of electric vehicles. 

Is it possible that the company with the most patents for electronic control system is BYD of China, followed by Tesla of the USA, and then Chinese companies such as Weilai and Xiaopeng?

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## MeFishToo

MH.Yang said:


> Computer? You mean the electronic control system?
> Indeed, this is the second important technology of electric vehicles.
> 
> Is it possible that the company with the most patents for electronic control system is BYD of China, followed by Tesla of the USA, and then Chinese companies such as Weilai and Xiaopeng?


What Do China’s High Patent Numbers Really Mean?


----------



## MH.Yang

MeFishToo said:


> What Do China’s High Patent Numbers Really Mean?


If you believe what you think, have you considered why China still has a high market share?


----------



## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> Computer? You mean the electronic control system?
> Indeed, this is the second important technology of electric vehicles.
> 
> Is it possible that the company with the most patents for electronic control system is BYD of China, followed by Tesla of the USA, and then Chinese companies such as Weilai and Xiaopeng?


Please don’t come here with number of patents. Same stories I hear with Huawei having thousands of 5g patents. Those things invented in chinese laboratory have no commercial values. Again, I repeat, battery is anode and cathode. That’s all. Ok a bit more, there is liquid or non liquid in between. Ask the Japanese. They invented those in 70s something.


----------



## MH.Yang

Viet said:


> Please don’t come here with number of patents. Same stories I hear with Huawei having thousands of 5g patents. Those things invented in chinese laboratory have no commercial values.


If there is no commercial value, why can Chinese enterprises occupy the market?

I would like to ask which of the top ten electric vehicle companies, except Tesla, is not a Chinese enterprise?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541057158770475010




But.....but.....the missile rain on Kiev and other Ukrainian military target is continuing endlessly. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540989383461195776

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## northeast

MeFishToo said:


> Im not the one boosting about my country. You guys are doing it pointing you selfrightious finger in the direction of Europe claiming were toast. I couldnt care less about Chinas success. Doesnt mean the rest of us end up peasants. Not everything is a zero sum game.


It is you the one keep saying chinese are stealing your technologies.
Be it zero-sum or not,it's competition. Weaker ones will be kicked out of the market. I could see the future that chinese and maybe US EV would replace the gasoline cars that germans and japanese are good at producing. It would be just another story shows that EU and japan are sinking rapidly.


----------



## MH.Yang

northeast said:


> It is you the one keep saying chinese are stealing your technologies.
> Be it zero-sum or not,it's competition. Weaker ones will be kicked out of the market. I could see the future that chinese and maybe US EV would replace the gasoline cars that germans and japanese are good at producing. It would be just another story shows that EU and japan are sinking rapidly.


The EU has Germans supporting the continent. Until Germany falls, the EU will not fall for the time being.
But now Japan has fallen.
And Germany has just lost a very good leader Angela Merkel. Let's look at her successor first.

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## Apollon

MH.Yang said:


> The core technology of electric vehicles is batteries.
> As for internal combustion engines, many companies have the ability to manufacture them.
> 
> Of course, if you think the internal combustion engine is the core technology of electric vehicles. All right, whatever you want.
> 
> In any case, every time the West sells an electric vehicle, it needs to pay a battery royalty or battery purchase fee to Chinese enterprises. China can sell cars with its own internal combustion engine.



And evrytime China sells a battery it has to pay license money to Bosch


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541076347459702785

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## Apollon

northeast said:


> It is you the one keep saying chinese are stealing your technologies.
> Be it zero-sum or not,it's competition. Weaker ones will be kicked out of the market. I could see the future that chinese and maybe US EV would replace the gasoline cars that germans and japanese are good at producing. It would be just another story shows that EU and japan are sinking rapidly.



Sales prove you wrong. VW now.leads electric car sales globally.


----------



## northeast

MH.Yang said:


> The EU has Germans supporting the continent. Until Germany falls, the EU will not fall for the time being.
> But now Japan has fallen.


Well,japanese got outcompeted by china and korea. EU is lucky that their economy is quite different from us,but that just save them one or two decades,they will sink down like japan did quite soon. EU will be harvested by their master USA and outcompete by china and south korea JUST LIKE JAPAN DID.


----------



## Apollon

MH.Yang said:


> The EU has Germans supporting the continent. Until Germany falls, the EU will not fall for the time being.
> But now Japan has fallen.



Fallen to what? Being one of richest nations? The bullshit some write here is amazing.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541075682549268480

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## northeast

Apollon said:


> Sales prove you wrong. VW now.leads electric car sales globally.


Nope,tesla and BYD is leading the EV sales,vw is collasping. china is exporting more cars to the world than germany does this year.

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## Apollon

northeast said:


> Well,japanese got outcompeted by china and korea. EU is lucky that their economy is quite different from us,but that just save them one or two decades,they will sink down like japan did quite soon. EU will be harvested by their master USA and outcompete by china and south korea JUST LIKE JAPAN DID.



Dude tell me how americans outcompete EU. In almost evry field we lead. Airbus basicly smashed Boeing. We lead in bio technology and shipbuilding.


----------



## MH.Yang

Apollon said:


> And evrytime China sells a battery it has to pay license money to Bosch


The fact is that Bosch paid the kernel patent use fee to Ningde times. Bosch Group is a strategic partner of Ningde times. Almost all their batteries are purchased from Ningde times.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540641083490713601
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540915545004023809





German and Ukranians are proud of what they are. There is nothing wrong being a Nazi just like there is nothing wrong being a Hun or Slavic or Pushtun.

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## Apollon

northeast said:


> Nope,tesla and BYD is leading the EV sales,vw is collasping. china is exporting more cars to the world than germany this year.




What utter nonsense.

VW already overtakes Tesla 










VW to overtake Tesla to become biggest electric car brand in 2024


Tesla will only hold onto its global electric car sales crown for only another 18 months before being replaced at the top of the charts by the German automotive giant.




www.thisismoney.co.uk






Chinese cars wont play a role in EU and US market anyways which makes them not important. We look at end of globalisation and just as Huawei was banned here, chinese cars will be banned too

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## MH.Yang

Apollon said:


> Fallen to what? Being one of richest nations? The bullshit some write here is amazing.


The richest East Asian countries? 

You're wrong. The exchange rate of the Japanese yen against the US dollar has fallen to 135 yen. Now South Korea is the country with the highest per capita GDP in East Asia. 

Japan's economy has entered a death spiral. Before 2040, Japan will have the lowest per capita income in East Asia except North Korea.

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## northeast

Apollon said:


> What utter nonsense.
> 
> VW already overtakes Tesla
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VW to overtake Tesla to become biggest electric car brand in 2024
> 
> 
> Tesla will only hold onto its global electric car sales crown for only another 18 months before being replaced at the top of the charts by the German automotive giant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thisismoney.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese cars wont play a role in EU and US market anyways which makes them not important. We look at end of globalisation and just as Huawei was banned here, chinese cars will be banned too


The news you quote says "will", "2024". You are as pathetic as indians..

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## MH.Yang

Apollon said:


> What utter nonsense.
> 
> VW already overtakes Tesla
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VW to overtake Tesla to become biggest electric car brand in 2024
> 
> 
> Tesla will only hold onto its global electric car sales crown for only another 18 months before being replaced at the top of the charts by the German automotive giant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thisismoney.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese cars wont play a role in EU and US market anyways which makes them not important. We look at end of globalisation and just as Huawei was banned here, chinese cars will be banned too


The Volkswagen Group expects that the sales volume of Volkswagen's electric vehicles will be the first in 2024?

Well, can you wait until 2024.

Now, please let Volkswagen's electric cars rank in the top10.

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## northeast

Apollon said:


> Dude tell me how americans outcompete EU. In almost evry field we lead. Airbus basicly smashed Boeing. We lead in bio technology and shipbuilding.


USA is not competing with you. They are harvesting from you, facebook, amazon, apple,google, microsoft,twitter etc, they are harvesting your money and your scientists. Airbus is nothing but a small company.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Russian artillery, guided by drones from air, was targeting Ukrainian troops. Those poor Ukrainian troops were running from one building to the next and eventually those who made it finally reached a nearby forest. Those poor souls must have been traumatized.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541002774585950210

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541003017327181824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541003274412752896

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## MH.Yang

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> German and Ukranians are proud of what they are. There is nothing wrong being a Nazi just like there is nothing wrong being a Hun or Slavic or Pushtun.


Racism is not Nazi. 

Nazis are those who propagate racial superiority and plunder and oppress other races. 

Those skinheads who play with Nazi symbols are not Nazis. They are just Nazi fans. 

But those who preach that the race of western Ukraine is higher than that of eastern Ukraine, and who carry out massacres and looting are real Nazis.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541079700180766721

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541075682549268480

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

MH.Yang said:


> Racism is not Nazi.
> 
> Nazis are those who propagate racial superiority and plunder and oppress other races.
> 
> Those skinheads who play with Nazi symbols are not Nazis. They are just Nazi fans.
> 
> But those who preach that the race of western Ukraine is higher than that of eastern Ukraine, and who carry out massacres and looting are real Nazis.



Banderas of Western Ukraine and Germans have always followed the ideals their leader Adolf Hitler.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541014507107094528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541033038397804546

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## MH.Yang

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Banderas of Western Ukraine and Germans have always followed the ideals their leader Adolf Hitler.


It doesn't matter what you say, but what you do. 
Europe is full of people who regard Hitler as an idol, and there are many skinheads in Russia. What matters is whether they plunder and exploit other nations. 
Getting a Nazi tattoo on your body is not equal to becoming a Nazi, just like bragging in PDF that Gaddafi is not equal to becoming a communist.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540993171429232640

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540993171429232640


Another hospital?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541096114291630084

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541079607121682432

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## Gomig-21

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541014507107094528
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541033038397804546



lol, watch him get a mortar planted right on that forehead of his the first day he's there. 
Point is, as admirable and brave as this type of volunteering stuff is, you just don't go flaunting it around like this guy did and certainly don't be cocky of the enemy's potential. In this day and age of real time news posting and social media extravaganza, you'll be called out in a heartbeat should you fail and then look the complete fool. 

You do it and let your actions speak for themselves or your friends speak for you. Once you start showing off your own bravery, it's not bravery anymore, but deluded sense of self grandeur.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541048918301106176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541040652196233217

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540944051565957122

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541100149279178753

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## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> If there is no commercial value, why can Chinese enterprises occupy the market?
> 
> I would like to ask which of the top ten electric vehicle companies, except Tesla, is not a Chinese enterprise?


Sorry I don’t follow market share. China is a big market. However there is no correlation between market share and patents. Chinese students or researchers tend to copy, change a bit, then say that’s a new great invention. Look at G5 coding variants. That is a zoo. Nobody needs 100 code variants. As for China market leader, wait and see. Lots of EV makers are coming. USSR was a superpower. Dead. Russia was Europe almighty, now Putin makes Russia to chinese and India slave. Time will tell.


----------



## Apollon

MH.Yang said:


> The richest East Asian countries?
> 
> You're wrong. The exchange rate of the Japanese yen against the US dollar has fallen to 135 yen. Now South Korea is the country with the highest per capita GDP in East Asia.
> 
> Japan's economy has entered a death spiral. Before 2040, Japan will have the lowest per capita income in East Asia except North Korea.



Who knows if China even exists by 2040 anymore

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## sammuel

_Nabil_ said:


> the West should settle for peace and look forward.



And is Putin ready to stop the war now , along this lines ? Saw no indication for it,

~


----------



## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> De-Nazification is in full speed!



From now on , every time you will describe the death of Ukrainians , in that disrespectful and slanderous manner , you will be reported .

And I hope others here will do the same.


~

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## F-22Raptor

sammuel said:


> From now on , every time you will describe the death of Ukrainians , in that disrespectful and slanderous manner , you will be reported .
> 
> And I hope others here will do the same.
> 
> 
> ~




He's an absolute joke. His native country of Somalia will literally starve to death due to Russias theft of Ukrainian grain. 

And he continues to peddle Russian lies and misinformation.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541116697859559425

No military target anywhere in sight.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541112681519845377


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541122914010820608

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## A.P. Richelieu

MH.Yang said:


> It doesn't matter what you say, but what you do.
> Europe is full of people who regard Hitler as an idol, and there are many skinheads in Russia. What matters is whether they plunder and exploit other nations.
> Getting a Nazi tattoo on your body is not equal to becoming a Nazi, just like bragging in PDF that Gaddafi is not equal to becoming a communist.


What Rubbish.
Europe is not ”full of people” who regard Hitler as an idol.
They are a small minority of a fraction of a percent at best.

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## Iron Shrappenel

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> German and Ukranians are proud of what they are. There is nothing wrong being a Nazi just like there is nothing wrong being a Hun or Slavic or Pushtun.


Wtf Why did you drag Pushtuns into this ?????


----------



## _Nabil_

sammuel said:


> From now on , every time you will describe the death of Ukrainians , in that disrespectful and slanderous manner , you will be reported .
> 
> And I hope others here will do the same.
> 
> 
> ~


Look who is giving lessons in "good manners" 😅😂😁, an Indian deguised as a Zionist 😁

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541109369571524609

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541135599888891909

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> He's an absolute joke. His native country of Somalia will literally starve to death due to Russias theft of Ukrainian grain.
> 
> And he continues to peddle Russian lies and misinformation.




Yeah, yeah, attack my country of origin while the discussion is about the war in Ukraine. If the US and the West weren't destabilizing Somalia and other African countries, starvation wouldn't be an issue. Stop blaming problems caused by the West on others. Even the death and destruction in the current Russian - Ukrainian war is West's own making. Sadly, the dumb Zelensky and his cohorts have allowed you (the West) to use his people (Ukrainian people) as sacrificial lambs.

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## Mahabahu kaunteya

_Nabil_ said:


> Look who is giving lessons in "good manners" 😅😂😁, an Indian deguised in a Zionist 😁


Keep Indians out of it , as its people and government both support Russia. 
If he is jew , address him as such. 
Ofcourse Jews are pained after all America is getting defeated everywhere

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## The SC

To date, the Ukrainian Armed Forces can only operate 34 howitzers out of the 108 M777 and the rest have been destroyed or repaired.
In Ukraine they complain about the poor quality of the American M777 howitzers, which failed in the first battle

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541122837993463813
Russian targeting of Ukrainian military vehicles

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541058802107179008
Russian artillery bombards the positions of the Ukrainian armed forces in the Novologansk region

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541056067513335808

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## Mahabahu kaunteya

sammuel said:


> From now on , every time you will describe the death of Ukrainians , in that disrespectful and slanderous manner , you will be reported .
> 
> And I hope others here will do the same.
> 
> 
> ~


Same Ukraine opposed india in 1998 , when we conducted nuke tests .
They have supplied weapons in large quantities to pakistan ( it dosent matter much )
If you are indian , why are you pained for Ukrainians plight, didn't they know or their leader know the consequences of War?
Didn't they know the character of Russia?
They have put themselves by thier own mistake and miscalculations .
Although civilian Ukraine death is regrettable but what about thousands massacred in donbass by Ukraine before the war for 8 long years?
When Ukrainians deliberately targeted schools and playgrounds in donbass ?
What about that?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541109369571524609
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541135599888891909




That was amazing. The Russians seem to be mopping the Zelensky forces to the floor.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541075922199408641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541076474349879297

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540962049232195584

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540957655753277440

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## Iron Shrappenel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Yeah, yeah, attack my country of origin while the discussion is about the war in Ukraine. If the US and the West weren't destabilizing Somalia and other African countries, starvation wouldn't be an issue. Stop blaming problems caused by the West on others. Even the death and destruction in the current Russian - Ukrainian war is West's own making. Sadly, the dumb Zelensky and his cohorts have allowed you (the West) to use his people (Ukrainian people) as sacrificial lambs.


I swear if it were Russia and China supplying the Ukrainians and it have been other way around.. they would be called terrorists.... In the game of world domination there is no right or wrong. Everything is perception.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541102095805415424

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541102937161830400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541089262782791689

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540945453998436353

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541019497666158594

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541151188321767429

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541151034587975683

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## Mahabahu kaunteya

India needs to buy more artillery from Russia after the war

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541145477122506759

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541151079521558533

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541146417120550914

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541146877260955649

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541137291959099394

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## MeFishToo

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541089262782791689


Look at the terrain. Russian troops reaching southwestern parts of Sieviedonetsk were easy targets from Lycychansk. I guess the russian forces just accepted the retreat, and had no intention chasing them towards the river.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541144815685046272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541143972671852544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541143460132147206

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541143151125176320

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541161070978600961

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541138733491228673

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541138839552593920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541131695432286211

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541128387267334148

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541157739233267713

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541118315518738433

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## _Nabil_

Blueindian said:


> Keep Indians out of it , as its people and government both support Russia.
> If he is jew , address him as such.
> Ofcourse Jews are pained after all America is getting defeated everywhere


Not my problem if an Indian is putting an Israeli Zio flag !!!

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541100149279178753





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541151882172944384

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## Soldier35

Russian troops launched a missile attack on a bridge across the Dnieper River in the Cherkasy region. The moment a Russian missile hit a bridge across the Dnieper River was caught on video.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541127948320784384
The Russian Ministry of Defense announced the discovery of an abandoned warehouse with foreign weapons in the Kharkiv region of Ukraine.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541007375188070401

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541127500339859457

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541110647269859332







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541109448852340736

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## khansaheeb

A.P. Richelieu said:


> What Rubbish.
> Europe is not ”full of people” who regard Hitler as an idol.
> They are a small minority of a fraction of a percent at best.


European colonial adventures certainly show it .









Why is Lithuania risking Russia’s wrath over Kaliningrad?


Lithuania imposed a ground transit ban of EU sanctioned Russian goods through its territory that will block half of all goods coming into the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad Oblast.




www.defensenews.com





Defense News​Why is Lithuania risking Russia’s wrath over Kaliningrad?​By Ryan White
Tuesday, Jun 21




Suwalki Gap is the corridor between Belarus and Kaliningrad, Russia, following the Lithuania-Poland border.
_CORRECTION: An earlier version of the story incorrectly reported on how ships leaving St. Petersburg have to circumnavigate Scandinavia. Vessels leaving from the port must traverse the Baltic Sea._
WASHINGTON — Lithuania imposed a ground transit ban of EU sanctioned Russian goods through its territory on Saturday, cutting off the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad Oblast.

The governor of the oblast, Anton Alikhanov, said the ban will block half of all goods coming into the territory, the majority of which travel via railroad. The ban will also cut off Kaliningrad’s only oil pipeline from Russia.
The move comes on top of the EU flight ban of 21 Russian-certified airlines in April, preventing goods from being flown into Kaliningrad as well. The only uninterrupted method of transit left to the territory now is by way of the sea through international waters.
In response, Russia said Lithuania will face “serious,” unspecified consequences for the actions.

With Lithuania being a NATO member, any direct military action by Russia would trigger Article 5 of the treaty and the entirety of the alliance would at war with Russia. During the State of the Union Address, U.S. President Joe Biden vowed to defend “every inch” of NATO territory. In March, the U.S. bolstered its presence in Lithuania, bringing the number of soldiers stationed in the country to around 1,000.
*Where is Kaliningrad?*​Like a hollow in the mountains, the isolated port city of Kaliningrad and the territory to which it lends its name is nestled along the coast of the Baltic Sea between the countries of Poland to the South and Lithuania to the East and North.
*Why is Kaliningrad part of Russia?*​The Kaliningrad Oblast is a territory of Russia. As an exclave, it is separated from its mother country’s capital of Moscow by about 680 miles.
After the conclusion of World War II, the Soviet Union was given control of the Kaliningrad territory at the Potsdam Conference. When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, the territory remained part of the Russian Federation, surrounded by newly independent countries which over time developed close ties to the West. Eventually, Poland and Lithuania joined the NATO alliance.

*Why is Kaliningrad important?*​Kaliningrad is the only Russian port on the Baltic Sea that is ice-free year round and is an important launch point for the nation’s naval fleet.
Kaliningrad’s location also means that Russia has naval vessels stationed behind NATO lines.
Along with its fleet, Russia also has nuclear weapons stationed in the territory, according to the Lithuania. In March, Russia ordered its nuclear forces on high alert in response to what it called mounting pressure from NATO countries making “aggressive statements about our country.”
Nuclear warheads attached to short or intermediate range ballistic misses stationed essentially inside NATO territory provide Russia with a more assured first strike due to the limited time it would take the missiles to reach their targets in Europe.

*What has Russia’s response been?*​Russia has expressed outrage at the move by Lithuania and has vowed to respond in a manner in which the citizens of Lithuania will feel pain, but has failed to specify how it will accomplish this.
Russia has called the transit ban a “blockade” and said the move is a violation of international law. Kaliningrad relies heavily on imports from Russia for goods and materials.
Lithuania defended the ban saying it is simply a step taken to comply with the EU sanctions which have been implemented on Russia since their invasion of Ukraine in late February.
“The transit of passengers and non-sanctioned goods to and from the Kaliningrad region through Lithuania continues uninterrupted,” the Lithuanian Foreign Ministry said in a statement. “Lithuania has not imposed any unilateral, individual, or additional restrictions on the transit. Lithuania consistently implements EU sanctions, which have different transition periods and dates of entry into force.”
About Ryan White
Ryan White is a reporting intern at Sightline Media. He is currently a senior at The University of Maryland, College Park studying journalism.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541108308542644224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541103385763631105

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541102900675584000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541101828254875649
The active protection system on a Russian tank repels a Ukrainian missile

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## aziqbal

This comedian has the blood of poor Ukrainians on his hands 

I couldn't care less for the mercenaries going there but poor Ukraines are suffering 

forget trying to fight Russia, these guys are firing 60,000+ shells per day mostly 122mm 

they have 60 million shells in reserve built up from he 1960s and 1970s USSR the Superpower days 

which basically means Russia can sustain this rate of fire for years 

forget it Ukraine you wont win this gave Russia the security guarantees they are asking for and stop the killing

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541179512561582085


----------



## K_Bin_W

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> EU no longer needs oil or gas as it is going all electric.



Yes I am sure without Russkie oil and gas EU economy will run on farts they have plenty of them.

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## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540756892259164160
Sky News doing Russian propaganda 🤣😁

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541188010976448513

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## SecularNationalist

aziqbal said:


> Bush killed 1 million Iraqis
> 
> looks like until his death he will be hunted by it and inshallah punished after he dies
> 
> US bombs Iraq for freedom and democracy
> 
> and yet when Russia does it in Ukraine its evil and bad
> 
> Russia is exposing Western hypocrisy


Hey hey what suddenly happened to this queens boy 
Few months back you were bashing Russia and supporting UK for Ukraine war and now you suddenly becomes pro Russian?
Any chance you went to Ukraine as a British fighter to fight Russians, later got caught by the Russian soldiers and were taught how to behave like a good boy? 
@Beast

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541048062172434432

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## Brainsucker

TNT said:


> By that logic why u being an Indonesian cheerleading for the west?


He is an Indonesian? Huh? But why he doesn't use Indonesian flag?

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 26​Jun 26, 2022 - Press ISW


Download the PDF
*
Karolina Hird, Kateryna Stepanenko, Mason Clark, and Grace Mappes
June 26, 4:30pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Russian forces conducted a massive missile strike against the Schevchenkivskyi district of Kyiv on June 26, likely to coincide with the ongoing summit of G7 leaders.[1] *This is the first such major strike on Kyiv since late April and is likely a direct response to Western leaders discussing aid to Ukraine at the ongoing G7 summit, much like the previous strikes on April 29 during UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres’ visit to Kyiv.[2] Ukrainian government sources reported that Russian forces targeted infrastructure in the Shevchenkivskyi district using X101 missiles fired from Tu-95 and Tu-160 bombers over the Caspian Sea and noted the Russian attack was an attempt to “show off” their capabilities.[3] Open-source Twitter account GeoConfirmed stated that the strikes targeted the general vicinity of the Artem State Joint-Stock Holding Company, a manufacturer of air-to-air missiles, automated air-guided missile training and maintenance systems, anti-tank guided missiles, and aircraft equipment.[4] GeoConfirmed noted that Russian forces likely fired the missiles from the maximum possible range, which would have interfered with GPS and radar correlation and resulted in the strike hitting civilian infrastructure, and additionally hypothesized some of the missiles may have been fired from Russian-occupied southern Ukraine.[5] Russian forces likely targeted the Artem Plant as a means of posturing against Western military aid to Ukraine during the G7 summit and inflicted additional secondary damage to residential infrastructure.[6]
*The Kremlin continues to manipulate Russian legislation to carry out “covert mobilization” to support operations in Ukraine without conducting full mobilization. *The Russian State Duma announced plans to review an amendment to the law on military service on June 28 that would allow military officials to offer contracts to young men immediately upon “coming of age” or graduating high school, thus circumventing the need to complete military service as conscripts.[7] Head of the Ukrainian Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) Kyrylo Budanov stated on June 25 that the Kremlin is carrying out “covert mobilization” and that due to continuous Russian mobilization efforts, Ukrainian forces cannot wait for the Russians to exhaust their offensive potential before launching counteroffensives.[8] Budanov remarked that the Kremlin has already committed 330,000 personnel to the war, which constitutes over a third of the entirety of the Russian Armed Forces, and that Russian President Vladimir Putin will face substantial domestic and social opposition if he increases this number by carrying out general (as opposed to covert) mobilization, as ISW has previously assessed.
*Colonel-General Genady Zhidko, current director of Russia’s Military-Political Directorate, is likely in overall command of Russian forces in Ukraine.* Zhidko sat next to and conferred with Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu during an inspection of Russian ground forces in Ukraine on June 26, though Zhidko’s nameplate was notably blurred out by the Russian Ministry of Defense and his position has not been officially confirmed, unlike the commanders of Russia's two force groupings in Ukraine that ISW reported on June 26.[9] Conflict Intelligence Team previously reported on May 26 that Zhidko replaced Commander of the Southern Military District Alexander Dvornikov as overall commander in Ukraine, though ISW could not independently verify this change at the time.[10] Reports on June 21 of Dvornikov’s dismissal and Zhidko’s prominent place in Shoigu’s June 26 visit likely confirm this change.
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces conducted a missile strike against Kyiv for the first time since April 29, likely to coincide with the ongoing G7 leadership summit.*
*Russian Colonel-General Gennday Zhidko has likely taken over the role of theatre commander of operations in Ukraine.*
*Russian forces continued attacks against the southern outskirts of Lysychansk and consolidated control of Severodonetsk and surrounding settlements.*
*Russian forces are conducting operations to the east of Bakhmut to maintain control of the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway.*
*Russian forces conducted unsuccessful ground assaults to the northwest of Slovyansk.*
*Russian forces intensified artillery strikes against Ukrainian positions along the Southern Axis.*
*Russian occupation authorities are escalating measures to stem Ukrainian partisan activity in occupied areas through increased filtration measures and the abduction of civilians.*
*

*
*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
 
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine

Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*

Russian forces continued to conduct attacks against the southern outskirts of Lysychansk on June 26. Russian sources claimed that Russian troops are fighting on the territory of the Lysychansk Gelatin Plant, as well as in Bila Hora (directly southeast of Lysychansk) and Privillya (directly northwest of Lysychansk).[11] Russian troops additionally consolidated newly-controlled positions in Severodonetsk, Syrotyne, Voronove, and Borivske and continued to shell Ukrainian forces in and around the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area.[12] Information regarding the specifics of the tactical situation in Lysychansk will likely become increasingly obfuscated as Russian forces consolidate control of Severodonetsk and continue to extend advances into Lysychansk.



Russian forces continued offensive operations to the east of Bakhmut along the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway on June 26.[13] Russian Telegram channel Rybar claimed that Russian forces have established control of the T1302 highway and that Russian operations in this area will likely be increasingly oriented around retaining control of the highway as opposed to interdicting Ukrainian lines of communication.[14] Russian forces fired at Ukrainian positions along the T1302 in Mykolaivka, Berestove, Pokrovske, and Kodema and reportedly conducted ground assaults near Berestove, Bilohorivka, Klynove, and Pokrovkse.[15] Russian sources additionally claimed that Russian troops conducted positional battles around Donetsk City in the direction of Kostyantinivka and Niu York, although Ukrainian sources stated that Russian forces took no active actions in this area.[16] Russian forces conducted ground and artillery attacks in southwestern Donetsk Oblast near the Zaporizhia Oblast border in the vicinity of Pavlivka and Yehorivka.[17]



Russian forces continued ground assaults towards Slovyansk from the southeast of Izyum but did not make any confirmed advances on June 26. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian attempts to advance in Dolyna, Kurulka, and Mazanivka, all northwest of Slovyansk near the Kharkiv-Donetsk Oblast border.[18] Russian Telegram channel Readkova additionally claimed that Russian troops are fighting around Krasnopillya and Bohorodychne (northwest of Slovyansk) and Prysyhb and Sydorove (directly north of Slovyansk).[19] Russian forces continued to set conditions to resume operations towards Slovyansk from the west of Lyman and shelled Mayaky, about 15 kilometers directly north of Slovyansk.[20]
*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Russian forces continued attempts to improve their positions north of Kharkiv City and conducted limited, unsuccessful assaults along contested frontlines in northeastern Kharkiv Oblast on June 26.[21] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces conducted an unsuccessful attack on Dementiivka, a settlement about 20 kilometers directly north of Kharkiv City along the E105 highway that runs into Belgorod.[22] Russian Telegram channel Readkova claimed that Russian forces are additionally fighting north of Kharkiv City in Udy, Tsupivka, and Verkhnii Saltiv.[23] Russian troops conducted artillery and airstrikes against civilian infrastructure and Ukrainian positions in and around Kharkiv City.[24]
* 


Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces on the Southern Axis continued defensive operations and targeted Ukrainian positions on June 26.[25] The Ukrainian General Staff and Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command both indicated that Russian forces are focusing on preventing Ukrainian troops from regrouping along their southern frontlines.[26] Russian forces once again unsuccessfully attempted to regain a lost position in Potomkyne, in northwestern Kherson Oblast.[27] Russian forces are intensifying artillery attacks against Ukrainian positions, especially along the Kherson-Mykolaiv Oblast border on the western Inhulets riverbank, to repel recent Ukrainian counterattacks. Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command stated that Russian forces have intensified their rate of shelling by 150% and that Russian shelling has almost entirely destroyed the settlements in the Davydiv Brid area along the eastern bank of the Inhulets River.[28] Russian forces conducted artillery and missile strikes across the southern frontline in various areas of Zaporizhia, Kherson, Mykolaiv, and Dnipropetrovsk Oblasts.[29] Russian forces are additionally continuing to fortify their military presence on Snake Island off the coast of Odesa Oblast to extend their control of the southwestern Black Sea.[30]
* 


Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian occupation authorities are strengthening measures to consolidate administrative control of occupied areas to crack down on the increasing pressure of recent Ukrainian partisan activities. The Ukrainian General Staff reported on June 26 that Russian authorities have intensified filtration measures at checkpoints in occupied areas and are carrying out counterintelligence actions at these checkpoints, likely to identify and target Ukrainian partisans.[31] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command additionally claimed that Russian forces are abducting relatives of Ukrainian soldiers and servicemen in Mykolaiv and Kherson Oblasts.[32] Ukrainian Mayor of Enerhodar Dmytro Orlov similarly stated that Russian forces in Enerhodar are kidnapping and torturing citizens to obtain information on “illegal activity” (presumably partisan affiliations) under duress.[33] Reports of abductions and intensified law enforcement measures on the part of Russian authorities coincide with reports of escalating Ukrainian partisan actions. Ukraine’s Southern Operational command stated that members of Ukrainian resistance in Kherson Oblast are increasingly targeting pro-Russian collaborators, and Ukrainian partisans set a car belonging to the Russian-appointed Head of Education on fire on June 25.[34]

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## RescueRanger

Russian generals and their obsession with medals 🤣






He's got more bling on him than a Gucci handbag.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541115384899715073

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538552300037210114


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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

NATO planning to attack Klaningrad by end of JULY, 2022.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540895969856094214

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## Gomig-21

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541048062172434432



That is one heck of a quote, if he really said that which according to one of the replies, he did on May 8th, 1975 in a speech in Cuba to celebrate Russia's 30th anniversary victory over Nazi Germany. That would be Nostradamus-like!

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Russia and Belarus preparing to defend Klaningrad from the NATO attack



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540736096731930624

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540736099399733250

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540736100922101760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540736102457303041

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540974327901917185

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541218728108605440

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541219138911080450

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541219269760786432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541219356536762368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541219423461072896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541219486308519936

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541219938009899008


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## _Nabil_

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541218728108605440


Stupid propaganda 🤣😂


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541235684316291073

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541220216440381440

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541220311676223488

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541220438369370112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541220722550272000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541220791441772544

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541221467886563329


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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541143492054749185

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541145612225089536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541145775454859264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541146218868330496


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## MH.Yang

RescueRanger said:


> Russian generals and their obsession with medals 🤣
> 
> View attachment 857074
> 
> 
> He's got more bling on him than a Gucci handbag.


If I read it correctly, in the left middle is the Soviet Union's second-class national defense medal. This old man should have participated in WW2. We have no reason to laugh at his medal.
In the 1990s, my father bought one from Russians when he went to Russia on business.

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## F-22Raptor

_Nabil_ said:


> Stupid propaganda 🤣😂
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541235684316291073



Creditors don’t care, all they want is their money


----------



## northeast

F-22Raptor said:


> Creditors don’t care, all they want is their money


You are so excited while western investors are the ones losing money？

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541161100581953542

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541161459601874944

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540917518868500481

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## Viet

aziqbal said:


> This comedian has the blood of poor Ukrainians on his hands
> 
> I couldn't care less for the mercenaries going there but poor Ukraines are suffering
> 
> forget trying to fight Russia, these guys are firing 60,000+ shells per day mostly 122mm
> 
> they have 60 million shells in reserve built up from he 1960s and 1970s USSR the Superpower days
> 
> which basically means Russia can sustain this rate of fire for years
> 
> forget it Ukraine you wont win this gave Russia the security guarantees they are asking for and stop the killing


You support Russia aggressive narrative.
What logic is that surrender to save lives? Are you sure they will survive in gulags? It’s a joke Russia needs security guarantee. Russia has the biggest nuclear arsenal in case you haven’t noticed. all European countries fear the poor, unpredictable, desperate Russia bear.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541097743489409024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541194142805532672


----------



## Viet

northeast said:


> Well. At least they would not be sprayed by agent orange like Americans did to vietnameses.


Russia artillery fire 50,000 shells per day.
Death is death. Which death is painful? You want to compare? I have sympathy for Russia but what they are doing now is dumb. I can’t understand. What’s the endgame?


----------



## northeast

Viet said:


> Russia artillery fire 50,000 shells per day.
> Death is death. Which death is painful ? You want to compare?


I highly doubt that they could kill more ukrainian than your american papa did to vietnameses.
You are just a pathetic brainwashed banana man.

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## Mahabahu kaunteya

_Nabil_ said:


> Not my problem if an Indian is putting an Israeli Zio flag !!!


Still keep us out of it , you know official indian position very well in this war, dont you?
If not then , its a neutral position in favour of Russia
What if he is a jew and keeps a pic of kalma or name of Prophet Muhammad as his profile pic tomorrow ?
Will you say a he is a arab Is larping as a jew here ?

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## sammuel

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Aren't you the one mocking the famine victims ?



So you resort to lies now ? 

Show me where i said something like that. 

It is you who cheer this war , and ignore it's effects on poor countries , yours included.

~

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## Mahabahu kaunteya

sammuel said:


> So you resort to lies now ?
> 
> Show me where i said something like that.
> 
> It is you who cheer this war , and ignore it's effects on poor countries , yours included.
> 
> ~


Are you a indian or a israeli ?
If israeli then change your profile pic

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## PakAlp

26/06/2022 update.
Ukraine is fighting back on the East front but down south they are slowly loosing territory.

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## Mahabahu kaunteya

I


sammuel said:


> So you resort to lies now ?
> 
> Show me where i said something like that.
> 
> It is you who cheer this war , and ignore it's effects on poor countries , yours included.
> 
> ~


China , india can supply wheat to poor nations if they need it .
Time has gone when west used to divert grain ships and cause millions of deaths

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## MH.Yang

Viet said:


> You support Russia aggressive narrative.
> What logic is that surrender to save lives? Are you sure they will survive in gulags? It’s a joke Russia needs security guarantee. Russia has the biggest nuclear arsenal in case you haven’t noticed. all European countries fear the poor, unpredictable, desperate Russia bear.


A big country will certainly need security.

What was the US attitude towards the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962?

In 1950, even with only a rifle, China went to North Korea to face American tanks and planes.

As a Vietnamese, you should be grateful for the 17 degree line drawn by another country. Or do you really think you can beat America?

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## Viet

northeast said:


> I highly doubt that they could kill more ukrainian than your american papa did to vietnameses.
> You are just a pathetic brainwashed banana man.


Not good, you resort to insult. I was respectful in response. You want to start the insult game? You may know as Vietnamese we are very good at it. Look at your skin tell me what color it is?


----------



## ZeGerman

northeast said:


> I highly doubt that they could kill more ukrainian than your american papa did to vietnameses.
> You are just a pathetic brainwashed banana man.


Ehmm.

So america did terrible things in vietnam.
However, even back 55 years ago the european public, even the american one in the end started to oppose it. 


But Because america bombed vietnamese 60 years ago…now in 2022 russia is free to bomb ukranians? The same people they starved by the millions in the holodomor? 

How does your pathetic excuse for a brain work?

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## _Nabil_

Blueindian said:


> Still keep us out of it , you know official indian position very well in this war, dont you?
> If not then , its a neutral position in favour of Russia
> What if he is a jew and keeps a pic of kalma or name of Prophet Muhammad as his profile pic tomorrow ?
> Will you say a he is a arab Is larping as a jew here ?


I said "an Indian", not "Indians", I don't see why you make a fuse about it, only if is it your alternative account you are backing???

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## Muhammed45

Viet said:


> Not good, you resort to insult. I was respectful in response. You want to start the insult game? You may know as Vietnamese we are very good at it. Look at your skin tell me what color it is?


We are in 2022, after all these years, we still see kids suffering from American savagery in both Korea and Vietnam. Talk about being purchased by someone who has killed your fathers, mothers, sisters.

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## MH.Yang

ZeGerman said:


> Ehmm.
> 
> So america did terrible things in vietnam.
> However, even back 55 years ago the european public, even the american one in the end started to oppose it.
> 
> 
> But Because america bombed vietnamese 60 years ago…now in 2022 russia is free to bomb ukranians? The same people they starved by the millions in the holodomor?
> 
> How does your pathetic excuse for a brain work?


The Ukrainian war launched by Russia was certainly a wrong war of aggression. China will not recognize Russia's sovereignty over Crimea, nor will it recognize Russia's sovereignty over Doneckij Coal Basin and other regions in the future.
But Russia is wrong, does not mean that NATO is right. NATO should not expand endlessly and incite Ukrainians to oppose Russia. NATO is also responsible for this war.

Since NATO and Russia are so hostile, they can directly invite each other to duel in their territories. Instead, the Ukrainians should not be dragged into hell with false promises.

I think Lithuania and Kaliningrad are very suitable. I suggest that NATO and Russia agree not to use nuclear bombs and go to war in Lithuania and Kaliningrad.

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## ZeGerman

northeast said:


> I highly doubt that they could kill more ukrainian than your american papa did to vietnameses.
> You are just a pathetic brainwashed banana man.


Also the “banana” jokes are getting old. 

He should “act like his race”? 
Stay “Loyal to his race” ?

Pfff, complaining about “western racism” while you see the whole world along racial lines….

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## northeast

ZeGerman said:


> Ehmm.
> 
> So america did terrible things in vietnam.
> However, even back 55 years ago the european public, even the american one in the end started to oppose it.
> 
> 
> But Because america bombed vietnamese 60 years ago…now in 2022 russia is free to bomb ukranians? The same people they starved by the millions in the holodomor?
> 
> How does your pathetic excuse for a brain work?


That is your pathetic excuse,not mine. In your western propaganda machine, russian are being discribed as evil barbarian that kill every ukrainian they encountered,right? But without your sugarcoating propaganda machine,you are no less barbaric. Not only in vietnam war.in iraq war,korean war and other countless war that USA have launched,the west bombarded and killed civillians like they were a crowd of chickens.



ZeGerman said:


> Also the “banana” jokes are getting old.
> 
> He should “act like his race”?
> Stay “Loyal to his race” ?
> 
> Pfff, complaining about “western racism” while you see the whole world along racial lines….


Yeah? A vietnamese keeps blaming how barbaric russian is and have never blamed USA for killing nearly a million vietnameses and using chemical weapons in war for even once seems normal to you? If that is not brainwashed then what is?

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## ZeGerman

MH.Yang said:


> The Ukrainian war launched by Russia was certainly a wrong war of aggression. China will not recognize Russia's sovereignty over Crimea, nor will it recognize Russia's sovereignty over Sparton and other regions in the future.
> But Russia is wrong, does not mean that NATO is right. NATO should not expand endlessly and incite Ukrainians to oppose Russia. NATO is also responsible for this war.


Yes i agree nato shares some of the responsibility.
(Though nato is very wide range of nations, we are talking about usa/uk being “hawk-ish”, with turkey/germany/france being far more “dove-ish”)

i wished this was handled more diplomatically. though bottomline, russia overreacted, and acted before Nato admission was even/ever a reality. 

Zelenski already stated to be willing to concede on joining Nato. Russia wants more and keeps this war going.

From european perspective this is unacceptable, we need to help the ukranians.


----------



## MH.Yang

ZeGerman said:


> Yes i agree nato shares some of the responsibility.
> (Though nato is very wide range of nations, we are talking about usa/uk being “hawk-ish”, with turkey/germany/france being far more “dove-ish”)
> 
> i wished this was handled more diplomatically. though bottomline, russia overreacted, and acted before Nato admission was even/ever a reality.
> 
> Zelenski already stated to be willing to concede on joining Nato. Russia wants more and keeps this war going.
> 
> From european perspective this is unacceptable, we need to help the ukranians.


I think Lithuania and Kaliningrad are very suitable. I suggest that NATO and Russia agree not to use nuclear bombs and go to war in Lithuania and Kaliningrad.


----------



## ZeGerman

northeast said:


> That is your pathetic excuse,not mine. In your western propaganda machine,russian is being discribed as evil barbarian that kill every ukrainian they encountered,right? But without your sugarcoating propaganda machine,you are no less barbaric. Not only in vietnam war,in iraq war,korean war and other countless war that USA have launched,the west bombarded and killed civillians like they were a crowd of chicken.


lump all of us together as “west”?

Germany was against iraq war. 
And the recent usa wars have been less brutal then russias “flatten enemy and annex territory with dumb bombs” tactics in chechnia, syria, and now ukraine.

Instead of speaking out against russian agression you are defending it on something the yanks did 60 years ago. 


northeast said:


> Yeah? A vietnamese keep blaming how barbaric russian is and never blamed USA for killing nearly a million vietnameses and use chemical weapons in war even once seems normal to you? If that is not brainwashed then what is?


How much did the communist kill in vietnam? For all you know his family might have been decimated by the north vietnamese. 

But you dont care for these details cause you only see race

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> As for Artillery, Ukraine would need A LOT of SPG and towed system, you still need M777 or any towed howitzer to work as defensive counter Battery fire where your SPG and MLRS work as offensive artillery. So yes, I can foresee a lot of M109 and M198 will be transferred to Ukraine. There are rumor on the Hills (Capitol Hills) that US is going to transfer some 40 M109A5/A6 to Ukraine with the next batch, That would bump the stock to somewhere around 100 unit, but that is probably just going to be stop gap, the next phase for Western/NATO support should look at how they can support Ukraine in the long run, which mean instead of piping down existing system, they need to either completely integrate Ukraine into NATO standard (like teach their air force how to fly F-16 or other western Aircraft, or how to use western equipment) or help the Ukrainian make their own weapon by donating the production line. You cannot keep fighting 6 months down the road with a mix bag of weapon, the smaller stuff (NLAW, Javelin) is already hitting maintenance issue, and we expect that is going to be the same with all the western donated artillery and SPG some 2 or 3 months down the road when they eventually needed service or breakdown.


The Ukrainians have their own version of the Caesar which a nearby country can help them produce it and the perfect platform with less maintenance and for the environment its fighting in which is shoot and scoot. Also can have them help build their own version of the HIMARS but right now its still based on the Russian design so its slow to reload and no pods. The Ukrainians are no joke. They built the carriers, the battlecruiser that they built and sank, their own tanks, the biggest cargo plane and second biggest cargo plane that looks similar to the C-5 Galaxy the AN-124. F-16s would be the way to go. Cheaper and perfect for Ukraine.





__





Ukraine army deploys its new Bureviy 220 mm MLRS rocket launcher to fight Russian troops | Ukraine - Russia conflict war 2022 | analysis focus army defence military industry army


Ukraine army deploys its new Bureviy 220 mm MLRS rocket launcher to fight Russian troops




www.armyrecognition.com

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## Mahabahu kaunteya

_Nabil_ said:


> I said "an Indian", not "Indians", I don't see why you make a fuse about it, only if is it your alternative account you are backing???


Thanks. I understand 
Hammer him for all i care now .

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## Oldman1

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540227912825245697
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540244787663618051
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540261355822977024
> 
> 
> Russia cruise missiled all of Ukraine's military hardware factories.


And? Thats not stopping them from killing more Russians.


----------



## northeast

ZeGerman said:


> lump all of us together as “west”?
> 
> Germany was against iraq war.
> And the recent usa wars have been less brutal then russias “flatten enemy and annex territory with dumb bombs” tactics in chechnia, syria, and now ukraine.
> 
> Instead of speaking out against russian agression you are defending it on something the yanks did 60 years ago.
> 
> How much did the communist kill in vietnam? For all you know his family might have been decimated by the north vietnamese.
> 
> But you dont care for these details cause you only see race


Germany was against iraq war. Yeah,as a lapdog of USA,I have to say your political leaders did their best to oppose that war by few lip services to your own people.
I am not defending russia,I never have.I just have been deeply disgusted by the hypocracy of the west.
And I am curious that If this vietnamese hate current vietnam so much why he name himself as 'viet'?

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## Oldman1

@jhungary 








US to announce purchase of medium- to long-range surface-to-air missile defense system for Ukraine | CNN Politics


The US plans to announce as soon as this week that it has purchased an advanced, medium-to-long range surface-to-air missile defense system for Ukraine, a source familiar with the announcement tells CNN.




www.cnn.com





US to announce purchase of medium- to long-range surface-to-air missile defense system for Ukraine​
Considering that the U.S. is refusing to provide the Patriots, the NASAMS is a good system for the cities being targeted by the cruise missiles especially Lviv, Odessa, Kiev, etc.

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## Bengal71

_Nabil_ said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540756892259164160
> Sky News doing Russian propaganda 🤣😁



Her eyebrows are perfectly plucked, beautiful hairstyle with hair is braids, I wonder how she is doing that in the middle of a battlefield.



SecularNationalist said:


> Hey hey what suddenly happened to this queens boy
> Few months back you were bashing Russia and supporting UK for Ukraine war and now you suddenly becomes pro Russian?
> Any chance you went to Ukraine as a British fighter to fight Russians, later got caught by the Russian soldiers and were taught how to behave like a good boy?
> @Beast



He marched with his battalion to conquer Moscow under the command of her majesty. Once he reached the outskirts of Moscow, Russians explained the pain and suffering he would inflict on the Russian innocents should he advances and pleaded to his humanity and kindness not to advance for the sake of those Russian innocent women, children and the elderly. Compelled by his kind, sensible, generous nature and the inherent human qualities, he decided to spare the lives of those Russians in an act of kindness and generosity like the chivalrous knight he is.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> @jhungary
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US to announce purchase of medium- to long-range surface-to-air missile defense system for Ukraine | CNN Politics
> 
> 
> The US plans to announce as soon as this week that it has purchased an advanced, medium-to-long range surface-to-air missile defense system for Ukraine, a source familiar with the announcement tells CNN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US to announce purchase of medium- to long-range surface-to-air missile defense system for Ukraine​
> Considering that the U.S. is refusing to provide the Patriots, the NASAMS is a good system for the cities being targeted by the cruise missiles especially Lviv, Odessa, Kiev, etc.


They did probably using the last few months to train Ukrainian with advance system. I mean I will not be surprise if some Ukrainian were in Poland (Or Norway, in case of NASAMS) since the beginning of war to train with the NATO and familiar with their system.

NASAMS would basically be land base AIM-120. So it would be more than enough to bump up Ukrainian Anti-Air Capability.



Bengal71 said:


> Her eyebrows are perfectly plucked, beautiful hairstyle with hair is braids, I wonder how she is doing that in the middle of a battlefield.


You are seriously underestimating women and their ability to look nice........






*







*
Man, you don't know how long you have to wait in the PX (Post Exchange) just waiting on those female to finish dumping their "Beauty Salon" order for you to get a roll of toilet paper.....

Glooming standard aside. If they want to look nice in battle, they will.

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> The Ukrainians have their own version of the Caesar which a nearby country can help them produce it and the perfect platform with less maintenance and for the environment its fighting in which is shoot and scoot. Also can have them help build their own version of the HIMARS but right now its still based on the Russian design so its slow to reload and no pods. The Ukrainians are no joke. They built the carriers, the battlecruiser that they built and sank, their own tanks, the biggest cargo plane and second biggest cargo plane that looks similar to the C-5 Galaxy the AN-124. F-16s would be the way to go. Cheaper and perfect for Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine army deploys its new Bureviy 220 mm MLRS rocket launcher to fight Russian troops | Ukraine - Russia conflict war 2022 | analysis focus army defence military industry army
> 
> 
> Ukraine army deploys its new Bureviy 220 mm MLRS rocket launcher to fight Russian troops
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.armyrecognition.com


Yeah, I think having to help them with their need instead of giving what they need is probably the next stage, there are already too many different system in Ukraine and they don't let people to come in and fix them (well, even if they are allowed in, you can't fix them without infrastructure.) 

Which mean at the end of the day, we need to look at how we can make them what they need.....Stuff that they have the ability to fix.

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## sammuel

Blueindian said:


> Are you a indian or a israeli ?
> If israeli then change your profile pic



What's wrong with my picture ? and where is it written i need to pick a certain picture ?

They asked to pick an " Avatar " for your profile , i chose that avatar . . .

~


----------



## dBSPL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541352979965648897

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## A.P. Richelieu

northeast said:


> That is your pathetic excuse,not mine. In your western propaganda machine, russian are being discribed as evil barbarian that kill every ukrainian they encountered,right? But without your sugarcoating propaganda machine,you are no less barbaric. Not only in vietnam war.in iraq war,korean war and other countless war that USA have launched,the west bombarded and killed civillians like they were a crowd of chickens.
> 
> 
> Yeah? A vietnamese keeps blaming how barbaric russian is and have never blamed USA for killing nearly a million vietnameses and using chemical weapons in war for even once seems normal to you? If that is not brainwashed then what is?


In Your Eastern propaganda machine you forget that:
The US did not start the Iraq war, Saddam did.
The US did not start the Korean War, North Korea did.
The US did not start the Vietnam War.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541336763213430785


----------



## Muhammed45

A.P. Richelieu said:


> In Your Eastern propaganda machine you forget that:
> The US did not start the Iraq war, Saddam did.
> The US did not start the Korean War, North Korea did.
> The US did not start the Vietnam War.


LMAO

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## Apollon

northeast said:


> Germany was against iraq war. Yeah,as a lapdog of USA,I have to say your political leaders did their best to oppose that war by few lip services to your own people.
> I am not defending russia,I never have.I just have been deeply disgusted by the hypocracy of the west.
> And I am curious that If this vietnamese hate current vietnam so much why he name himself as 'viet'?



Germany did not participat in iraq


----------



## jhungary

_Nabil_ said:


> Stupid propaganda 🤣😂
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541235684316291073


To be fair, Putin should have more than 100 millions USD (The default payment) to pay the debt, hell, he himself probably have 100 millions USD to pay for it. Bear in mind Paying off Russian loan with USD is allowed by US federal bank. And he did make the previous 4 (or 5) payment.

He choose not to, so, you got defaulted, it's that simple.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541390107999174658

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## comci

northeast said:


> The news you quote says "will", "2024". You are as pathetic as indians..


Apollon is an Indian.

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## F-22Raptor

comci said:


> Raptor 22 is an Indonesian who happens to be white wannabee. Nothing wrong with it though. Sometimes inferiority complex runs too deep in someone that one resorts to be wishing to be someone else.


I’m a white American born and raised in the US. 

Stop the trolling

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## comci

F-22Raptor said:


> I’m a white American born and raised in the US.
> 
> Stop the trolling


Ok...

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## F-22Raptor

TNT said:


> By that logic why u being an Indonesian cheerleading for the west



I’m a white American born and raised in the US. My ethnicity was confirmed on this forum years ago. 

I’ve reported you for trolling.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541393297779953664


----------



## Get Ya Wig Split

NATO to massively increase high-readiness forces to 300,000 - Stoltenberg​NATO's quick reaction force, the NATO response force, so far has some 40,000 troops.









NATO to boost troops on high alert to over 300,000 -Stoltenberg


NATO will boost the number of troops on high alert by more than sevenfold to over 300,000, its secretary-general said on Monday, as allies prepared to adopt a new strategy describing Moscow as a direct threat four months into the Ukraine war.




www.reuters.com

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## Apollon

comci said:


> Apollon is an Indian.



I consider India a 3rd world hellhole. So dont insult me.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

ZeGerman said:


> Yes i agree nato shares some of the responsibility.
> (Though nato is very wide range of nations, we are talking about usa/uk being “hawk-ish”, with turkey/germany/france being far more “dove-ish”)
> 
> i wished this was handled more diplomatically. though bottomline, russia overreacted, and acted before Nato admission was even/ever a reality.
> 
> Zelenski already stated to be willing to concede on joining Nato. Russia wants more and keeps this war going.
> 
> From european perspective this is unacceptable, we need to help the ukranians.



Russia had to militarily intervene because of the endless military campaign that Western Ukraine launched against the Russian-speaking communities in East and South Ukraine. Do you want Azov and others massacre communities in the East and south with the support of Western countries while Russia watches from the sidelines?

The Ukrainian government also refused to implement the MINSK II agreement that was endorsed by the Russia, EU, NATO, and UNSC. This agreement secured the autonomy of the Russian-speaking communities in the east and the south of Ukraine, in addition to Russian language being one of the official languages of the country. 

Instead, the Ukrainian government under Zelensky opted for military campaign to subdue the Russian-speaking communities in the South and the East, while also marginalizing them by imposing Ukrainian language only policy - which removed the Russian language as one of the official languages. 

Zelesky himself also talked about to be joining NATO and also his desire to acquire nuclear weapons. 

So when you add those points, you can clearly understand why Russia militarily intervened.

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## MH.Yang

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> NATO to massively increase high-readiness forces to 300,000 - Stoltenberg​NATO's quick reaction force, the NATO response force, so far has some 40,000 troops.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NATO to boost troops on high alert to over 300,000 -Stoltenberg
> 
> 
> NATO will boost the number of troops on high alert by more than sevenfold to over 300,000, its secretary-general said on Monday, as allies prepared to adopt a new strategy describing Moscow as a direct threat four months into the Ukraine war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com


These men have beautiful muscles, but they are all fake with protein powder. In the weightlifting competition of the Olympic Games, these people are rubbish.
These muscular men can only live in the media or bully the children in the community. They can't go to the Olympics to compete with the real heroes.

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## Get Ya Wig Split

REUTERS BREAKING NEWS: NATO to massively increase high-readiness forces to 300,000​








REUTERS BREAKING NEWS: NATO to massively increase high-readiness forces to 300,000


NATO to massively increase high-readiness forces to 300,000 - Stoltenberg MADRID, June 27 (Reuters) - NATO will increase the number of its forces at high readiness massively to over 300,000, Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said on Monday. "We will transform the NATO response force and...



defence.pk


















MH.Yang said:


> These men have beautiful muscles, but they are all fake with protein powder. In the weightlifting competition of the Olympic Games, these people are rubbish.


Keep crying loser

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## Hassan Al-Somal

sammuel said:


> What's wrong with my picture ? and where is it written i need to pick a certain picture ?
> 
> They asked to pick an " Avatar " for your profile , i chose that avatar . . .
> 
> ~



You've been told to stop hiding behind other people's flags and religious figures. Only a troll and someone who has something to hide would do it. Are you an Israeli Jew? Or are you an Indian? Why is it so hard for you to clarify it? 




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541072929017978880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541382295151677443

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## MH.Yang

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> REUTERS BREAKING NEWS: NATO to massively increase high-readiness forces to 300,000​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> REUTERS BREAKING NEWS: NATO to massively increase high-readiness forces to 300,000
> 
> 
> NATO to massively increase high-readiness forces to 300,000 - Stoltenberg MADRID, June 27 (Reuters) - NATO will increase the number of its forces at high readiness massively to over 300,000, Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said on Monday. "We will transform the NATO response force and...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep crying loser


wait a minute. 
Do u think the Chinese are the losers in the Ukrainian war?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541393297779953664





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541396929975914496

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## _Nabil_

jhungary said:


> To be fair, Putin should have more than 100 millions USD (The default payment) to pay the debt, hell, he himself probably have 100 millions USD to pay for it. Bear in mind Paying off Russian loan with USD is allowed by US federal bank. And he did make the previous 4 (or 5) payment.











US Treasury says it could block Russian debt payments starting next week


Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen on Wednesday signaled US officials will likely end a carve-out in Western sanctions that has allowed Russia to continue make payments on its debt.




edition.cnn.com








jhungary said:


> He choose not to, so, you got defaulted, it's that simple.


You deserve to give yourself a negative rating as you are blatantly giving false informations.

Here what CNN and many serious western news channels saying : 









West pushes Russia into its first foreign debt default since 1918 | CNN Business


Russia has defaulted on its foreign debt for the first time since the Bolshevik revolution more than a century ago.




www.google.com





You don't look, anymore, like someone looking for the truth, just spreading propaganda like everyone around ...

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## ZeGerman

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> REUTERS BREAKING NEWS: NATO to massively increase high-readiness forces to 300,000​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> REUTERS BREAKING NEWS: NATO to massively increase high-readiness forces to 300,000
> 
> 
> NATO to massively increase high-readiness forces to 300,000 - Stoltenberg MADRID, June 27 (Reuters) - NATO will increase the number of its forces at high readiness massively to over 300,000, Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said on Monday. "We will transform the NATO response force and...
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep crying loser


Wow thats massive. Larger then russias invasion force for ukraine

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## _Nabil_

F-22Raptor said:


> I’m a white American born and raised in the US.
> 
> Stop the trolling


Thanks to God 🙏 you wasn't Indonesian, I'm no more "ashamed" Thanks again ✌️

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541423903712722944
The Russian Nazi terror state has now hit a shopping mall. The war crimes continue

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541390107999174658





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541402669591543809

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541142030176468993

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541424591276589057


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541108982496067590

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541396929975914496


Didnt throw their weapons or uniform. 
Retreat in line, added by cars. The russians will have to fight them again.

The russians will have to oust the ukranians from lisischansk, then again from bakhmut, then sloviansk, then kramatorsk. A painfull and slow process.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541424141412306944


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541112003653140480


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541423516792274944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541426554361757696


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## Hassan Al-Somal

ZeGerman said:


> Didnt throw their weapons or uniform.
> Retreat in line, added by cars. The russians will have to fight them again.
> 
> The russians will have to oust the ukranians from lisischansk, then again from bakhmut, then sloviansk, then kramatorsk. A painfull and slow process.



But the Russian liberators are killing 100 of the best Bandera forces and wounding 500 more of these Bandera forces on daily basis. That is 600 men off the battle field on daily basis. Within a week, that is 4200 of Bandera men removed from the battle-field. That is over 18000 of Bendera loyalists removed from the battle-field on monthly basis. The Donbass region is a killing field for the Bandera loyalists.

You need to accept the fact that the same Russian forces you see today are the sons and daughters of the same men who freed Europe in World War II. And they're certainly working hard today to free Europe from Victoria Nuland and her ilks. So for you @ZeGerman, stop hating the Russian men and women who are trying so hard to free Europe from the same forces that killed 70 million of your people in World War II.

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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541429159792197632
Another war crime

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## Mujahid Memon

Apollon said:


> I consider India a 3rd world hellhole. So dont insult me.


Said every larper ever

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> But the Russian liberators are killing 100 of the best Bandera forces and wounding 500 more of these Bandera forces on daily basis. That is 600 men off the battle field on daily basis. Within a week, that is 4200 of Bandera men removed from the battle-field. That is over 18000 of Bendera loyalists removed from the battle-field on monthly basis. The Donbass region is a killing field for the Bandera loyalists.
> 
> You need to accept the fact that the same Russian forces you see today are the sons and daughters of the same men who freed Europe in World War II. And they're certainly working hard today to free Europe from Victoria Nuland and her ilks. So for you @ZeGerman, stop hating the Russian men and women who are trying so hard to free Europe from the same forces that killed 70 million of your people in World War II.


“freed europe” please, they merely exchanged one brutal regime with another. 

For example:
Executing 20.000 poles cause they might stand in way of their occupation plans.
Letting the nazis kill another 200.000 in warsaw while they just stood and watched. Murdering another 200.000 in the following occupation. 

This is what fuels the Ukrainian will to fight. 
In meantime russian losses are mounting similarly. 

Lets see how things change when the western weapons build up in number and the ukranian mobilisation is in full force.

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## jhungary

_Nabil_ said:


> US Treasury says it could block Russian debt payments starting next week
> 
> 
> Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen on Wednesday signaled US officials will likely end a carve-out in Western sanctions that has allowed Russia to continue make payments on its debt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edition.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You deserve to give yourself a negative rating as you are blatantly giving false informations.
> 
> Here what CNN and many serious western news channels saying :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> West pushes Russia into its first foreign debt default since 1918 | CNN Business
> 
> 
> Russia has defaulted on its foreign debt for the first time since the Bolshevik revolution more than a century ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't look, anymore, like someone looking for the truth, just spreading propaganda like everyone around ...


If you miss the "COULD" in your first reference, that's not my business.

Furthermore, if you confused "BOND PAYMENT" (Which US Blocked) with All Russian Foreign Debt Re-Payment, that's not my business either









U.S. blocks Russia’s access to dollars for bond payments, heightening risk of default.


The U.S. Treasury tightened its restrictions on Russian financial transactions on Monday, when more than half a billion dollars in bond payments were due.




www.nytimes.com





And finally, only idiot would care about Rating. And if you have any issue as for how I hand out my negative rating, you are more than gladly talk to the mod about it. I hand them out according to forum guideline.









Taiwanese holders of Russian bonds say they haven't received payments: Sources


Some Taiwanese holders of Russian eurobonds have not received interest due on May 27 after a grace period expired on Sunday evening, two sources said.




www.cnbc.com

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## ZeGerman

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541429159792197632
> Another war crime


yeah normally you expect this when cities are liberated. Maybe russians do not understand the concept.

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## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> I think Lithuania and Kaliningrad are very suitable. I suggest that NATO and Russia agree not to use nuclear bombs and go to war in Lithuania and Kaliningrad.


If no nuke involved Putin knows he has no chance winning a conventional war against NATO. The economic logics speaks against Russia.


----------



## MH.Yang

Viet said:


> If no nuke involved Putin knows he has no chance winning a conventional war against NATO. The economic logics speaks against Russia.


Is it possible that the USA will not be involved in this war because it is worried that China will get enough development time, and only the EU and Russia will participate in the war?

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## nang2

_Nabil_ said:


> It's your problem if you love your executioners and flagellants.
> 
> A Demon will be called a Demon, even if you lost your honour and pride to stand for your country and community and call him a Demon.


The issue is that people don't see demon in themselves. Every person, even the nicest one, if allowed to release his violence with immunity, he will turn into a demon. Blindly treating another people as demons by following the cue from politicians and directing your violence (in thought or deed or both), you just turn yourself into a demon. There is no honor of being a demon.

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## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> Is it possible that the USA will not be involved in this war because it is worried that China will get enough development time, and only the EU and Russia will participate in the war?


Why should the US involve the Ukraine war? I don’t understand the logic. Ukraine is not Nato territory. However if Russia attacks one of the Baltic then good night, we would face down a nuclear war. As for China, should it come to a direct confrontation then no matter you like or not China fate is at stake.
The explosion of thousands nukes would kill off the planet.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

ZeGerman said:


> “freed europe” please, they merely exchanged one brutal regime with another.
> 
> For example:
> Executing 20.000 poles cause they might stand in way of their occupation plans.
> Letting the nazis kill another 200.000 in warsaw while they just stood and watched. Murdering another 200.000 in the following occupation.



Can you share documents that can backup your claim? 



ZeGerman said:


> This is what fuels the Ukrainian will to fight.
> In meantime russian losses are mounting similarly.
> 
> Lets see how things change when the western weapons build up in number and the ukranian mobilisation is in full force.



The more West provides to Ukrainians, the more Russians escalate. I think you guys want Kiev and Lviv destroyed. It is obvious that Western elites want to sacrifice Ukraine and Lithuania in order to weaken Russia. But it seems if push comes to shove, Russians will be taking down many cities and its inhabitants.

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## LeGenD

Russian forces have taken Sievierodonetsk.

I have updated the repository thread.

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## MH.Yang

Viet said:


> Why should the US involve the Ukraine war? I don’t understand the logic. Ukraine is not Nato territory. However if Russia attacks one of the Baltic then good night, we would face down a nuclear war. As for China should it come to a direct confrontation then no matter you like or not China fate is at stake.


I just said that since NATO hates Russians so much, you two should go to Kaliningrad&Lithuania and start a war . Stop deceiving the poor Ukrainians. You should solve the problem by yourself. Don't use nuclear bombs.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

ZeGerman said:


> yeah normally you expect this when cities are liberated. Maybe russians do not understand the concept.
> 
> View attachment 857259



Russians are welcomed in Lysychansk


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541072929017978880

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## MH.Yang

When will Russia announce national mobilization?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541425413636952065
> Shutdown...




There was no proof shown in that video that a helicopter was shot down. It was only some guys launching a missile. And if they hit a helicopter, it is most likely a Ukrainian helicopter.



LeGenD said:


> Russian forces have taken Sievierodonetsk.
> 
> I have updated the repository thread.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541427687788511239
Now that the 2 cities are part of the LPR (the Luhansk People's Republic), NATO can't set foot in there.

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## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> I just said that since NATO hates Russians so much, you two should go to Kaliningrad&Lithuania and start a war . Stop deceiving the poor Ukrainians. You should solve the problem by yourself. Don't use nuclear bombs.


What a nonsense NATO don’t hate Russia. Hate is not military logics. why should anyone hate Russia. People hope nice holiday in peace It’s Putin who hates Nato. He feels encircled and abandoned.
How many people in the west visit Russia for holiday purposes? Probably some handfuls leftists and communists.
As for nukes, sure, if I am not mistaken the Nato never abandons the first use policy.
That’s the core of NATO nuclear doctrine.
Any attack by USSR or now Russia will inevitably cause a terrible response by the Nato.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541424591276589057





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541444963623489546

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541424591276589057




There was no helicopter shown in the video let alone being hit. Now, how about this video that shows how Banderas' positions are identified from air and then hit with Russian artillery bombardments in Lisichansk?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541126155176124417

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541372823473627136
Boris Johnson: Hold the line and don't embarrass us with another Russian victory while we're at the G7 meeting. As usual, the Zelensky poodle obliged, knowing it would be more death and destruction for his Ukrainian forces.



Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541429159792197632
> Another war crime




It could be a false flag, carried out by MI6 in order to get other countries in the EU and NATO to join the war. This could be another Bucca false flag carried out by the cruel and evil MI6. 

More news from the Donbass region now 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541372246349971456

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## Hassan Al-Somal

This is a video from the Ukrainian Defense Ministry, promoting homosexuality in their ranks in order to appeal to the homosexual-loving leaders in the West. I told you people the West hates Russia because sodomy is not allowed in the Russian armed forces and in Russian society. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541090302554939394
*Sodom and Gomorrah is in the West*, and I wouldn't be surprised if many of the pro Ukraine posters here are in that sick lifestyle.

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## dBSPL

Snake island, again
And another useless Pantsir-S


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541390240300122112


----------



## F-22Raptor

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541429159792197632
> Another war crime




Russias intentional targeting of Ukrainian civilians is absolutely disgusting, and a crime against humanity. 

The Russian Nazis deserve nothing less than to be bulldozed into the Earth.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541460990268772352

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541460346690588672


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> There was no helicopter shown in the video let alone being hit. Now, how about this video that shows how Banderas' positions are identified from air and then hit with Russian artillery bombardments in Lisichansk?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541126155176124417





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541430871818964993

It was a Russian helicopter, and was descending at increasing speed, and likely crashed.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541460346690588672
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541430871818964993
> 
> It was a Russian helicopter, and was descending at increasing speed, and likely crashed.



>> "likely crashed"

No proof shown

>> "It was a Russian helicopter"

No proof that a Russian helicopter was hit in that video. 


Now, we're waiting for the next mass surrender of Ukrainians in and around Lysychansk. 👇👇



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541463244807749634

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540012907668414465

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541465455109586945
Ukraine hit this ammo depot with HIMARS and resulted in a massive explosion.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541430127237668867

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541432438336913408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541433519565639683

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541436228943446018

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541362603728961538

Enjoying HIMARS yet Russia?

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541362603728961538
> 
> Enjoying HIMARS yet Russia?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541419418386825216

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## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> When will Russia announce national mobilization?


Putin fears he will lose face. He promised not using conscripts. It’s not if but when. He will call out for war and then do mobilization. British Intel says fresh Russian conscripts are going to war.
The Nato will increase fast response group to 400,000 men. Germany will increase troop in Litauen to brigade.
Lot of weapons pour to eastern flank, Poland, Romania, Baltics.






Die Bundeswehr stellt auch Panzerhaubitzen 2000 für die schnelle Eingreiftruppe der Nato bereit. Zu sehen sind Geschütze während der NRF-Zertifizierungsübung in der Wettiner Heide. (11. Mai 2022) © Thomas Imo/photothek.net/imago

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> Russias intentional targeting of Ukrainian civilians is absolutely disgusting, and a crime against humanity.
> 
> The Russian Nazis deserve nothing less than to be bulldozed into the Earth.



But according to western haters living in the west like @Hassan Al-Somal they struck an important training base and western weapons depot and killed three trillion Ukrainian soldiers...

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Can you share documents that can backup your claim?
> 
> 
> 
> The more West provides to Ukrainians, the more Russians escalate. I think you guys want Kiev and Lviv destroyed. It is obvious that Western elites want to sacrifice Ukraine and Lithuania in order to weaken Russia. But it seems if push comes to shove, Russians will be taking down many cities and its inhabitants.











Outside support during the Warsaw Uprising - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_(1939–1946)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Poland_(1945–1989)

Its common knowledge. 
There is a reason Poles do not trust Russia.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541478681977049088

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Get Ya Wig Split said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541425413636952065
> Shutdown...




There is a difference between shot down and shut down. Do you? 

How about this? 👇 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541484129530875908

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## Hassan Al-Somal

ZeGerman said:


> Outside support during the Warsaw Uprising - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_(1939–1946)
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Poland_(1945–1989)
> 
> Its common knowledge.
> There is a reason Poles do not trust Russia.



I don't know and not really that much interested in. 

My only interest in this conflict is 1) We've seen how the West destroyed many nations such as Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Somalia, Syria, Palestine, Yemen, Pakistan; 2) how they wrongly sanction Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea, Russia, Eritrea, etc; 3) how they sponsored coups in Turkey, Iran, Somalia, Pakistan, Egypt, and other countries; 4) how they've engineered this Russian-Ukraine conflict from the get-go, installed a puppet regime in Ukraine, and used them to declare a war on Russian-speaking communities in East and South of Ukraine, and then used to the NATO membership in order to irk the Russian leadership. 

What is tragic is how the EU public is oblivion to the root causes of this conflict. It seems you all take what you hear from your mainstream media at face value. And also what makes your leaders so spineless when it comes to stick with the truth and at least be impartial in this conflict.

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## The SC

Ukrainian troops lost a total of more than 50 thousand dead - Deputy Minister of Information of the DPR Republic.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541368547980492800
The Russian Air Force struck with four high-precision missiles the workshops of the Artem Rocket-Building Corporation in Kyiv, where MLRS ammunition was produced - Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541384459638931456
In his address to the G7, *Zelensky* made clear that prolonging the conflict is not in the interests of Ukraine - Sullivan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541400241127186432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541386067852595207

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Can you share documents that can backup your claim?


It is ridiculous to ask for backup documentation for major WWII events.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> The more West provides to Ukrainians, the more Russians escalate. I think you guys want Kiev and Lviv destroyed. It is obvious that Western elites want to sacrifice Ukraine and Lithuania in order to weaken Russia. But it seems if push comes to shove, Russians will be taking down many cities and its inhabitants.



Yes, Russia is indiscriminately targetting civilians.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541497740093423618


----------



## ZeGerman

dBSPL said:


> Snake island, again
> And another useless Pantsir-S
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541390240300122112


What is this obsession with snake island from both sides?? 

Arent the massed russian troops around severodonetsk a better target?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541500118670532608


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

ZeGerman said:


> What is this obsession with snake island from both sides??
> 
> Arent the massed russian troops around severodonetsk a better target?



Snake Island is important to control the Ukranian coast near the Odessa port city.


----------



## Viet

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Snake Island is important to control the Ukranian coast near the Odessa port city.


Putin wants those survive by artillery shelling to die by hunger, disease, famine. Russia warships hinder Ukraine exports and imports. Ukraine children hospitals can’t even get medicines. This island is the cornerstone of sea blockage.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I don't know and not really that much interested in.
> 
> My only interest in this conflict is 1) We've seen how the West destroyed many nations such as Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Somalia, Syria, Palestine, Yemen, Pakistan; 2) how they wrongly sanction Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea, Russia, Eritrea, etc; 3) how they sponsored coups in Turkey, Iran, Somalia, Pakistan, Egypt, and other countries; 4) how they've engineered this Russian-Ukraine conflict from the get-go, installed a puppet regime in Ukraine, and used them to declare a war on Russian-speaking communities in East and South of Ukraine, and then used to the NATO membership in order to irk the Russian leadership.
> 
> What is tragic is how the EU public is oblivion to the root causes of this conflict. It seems you all take what you hear from your mainstream media at face value. And also what makes your leaders so spineless when it comes to stick with the truth and at least be impartial in this conflict.


It certainly beats your lies coming directly from RT.

You support every dictatorial country which represses their citizens.
Saddam, Gadaffi, Maduro, Castro, Assad, Kin Jong Un lack legality
but still have your full support.

You conveniently forget that 90-95% of those killed in Iraq are killed by your idols.
99% of Syrians killed are killed by the illegal Assad regime, and Russia.
Russias intervention in Syria cause the 10-15 million Syrians to become refugees.
Afghanistan was destroyed by the Taliban, and those that funded and armed the Taliban. That happened before 9/11.
Palestinians have screwed up so much that all their Arab neighbours hate their guts. They tried to take over Jordan and Lebanon, support ISIS in Sinai. Latest is Syria, not forgetting upsetting all the Gulf States.
Both Pakistan and Egypt armies are quite independent and make their own decision. The recent coup attempt in Turkey should probably be called a counter coup, since it is quite obvious that Erdogan was planning a purge of his opposition.
The rushed coup seems to be a desperate attempt to forestall that purge,

You do not get to define which countries are sanctioned.

The Ukraine conflict started when Putin bribed/blackmailed Yanukovich into signing a deal with Russia against all agreements.
That was the start of the real coup. Then Russia sent troops to Donetsk disguised as volunteers. ”Volunteers” do not have heavy artillery.
Yanukovich remained President until the end of his term, and new elections were held in 2015. Yanukovich refused to do his job, escaping to Russia under FSB protection to avoid being impeached.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Viet said:


> Putin wants to cause famine in Ukraine.



Ukraine is bread basket of the world. They will not run out of food. All Farms are in the western part of Ukraine.

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## Viet

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Ukraine is bread basket of the world. They will not run out of food. All Farms are in the western part of Ukraine.


But do they get the foods they need? Putin has no mercy. He wants to kill them all. He considers them as Nazi. Only the separatists are Russians. The pure people.
Putin is like Pol Pot.
Pol wanted to establish a country of pure people. In the new country there is no place for 2/3 of population.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541456544432152577

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541464282323451906

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541464377357901824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541455001784131584

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541454439147520000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541455926720401408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541454957580369929

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541454898943983618

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Viet said:


> He considers them as Nazi.



Western Ukranians are followers of Banderas and they are certified Nazis.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541454135383494656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541454056085921794

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541448714186899457


Spoiler: Graphic






https://twitter.com/spriteer_774400/status/1541453708524912641







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541351969377353728

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## Viet

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Western Ukranians are followers of Banderas and they are certified Nazis.


That’s what Putin has in mind. Western Ukraine is impure. Putin will put them all from babies to women to elders into either gulags or gas chambers. Pol Pol has the black dress to kill the impure. Putin has the chechens. A new paradise will come when those Nazi are dead.


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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Viet said:


> Putin wants those survive by artillery shelling to die by hunger, disease, famine. Russia warships hinder Ukraine exports and imports. Ukraine children hospitals can’t even get medicines. This island is the cornerstone of sea blockage.



Ukraine has EU candidate status. Milk and Honey flows there and people live there happily ever after.



Viet said:


> That’s what Putin has in mind. Western Ukraine is impure. Putin will put them all from babies to women to elders into either gulags or gas chambers. Pol Pol has the black dress to kill the impure. Putin has the chechens.



Only Nazis care about racial purity and superiority.


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## Viet

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Ukraine has EU candidate status. Milk and Honey flows there and people live there happily ever after.
> 
> 
> 
> Only Nazis care about racial purity and superiority.


Putin is the new Nazi.
He has Nazi ideology.
His assays on Russia, Ukraine, roots, history, the same people, the virtual space, take pages from Mein Kampf.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541335787295444993

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541342856736083969

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541504462434582529

HIMARS proving to be very effective

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## aziqbal

A.P. Richelieu said:


> It is ridiculous to ask for backup documentation for major WWII events.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Russia is indiscriminately targetting civilians.



US bombed civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq 

as a matter of fact Wikileaks proved it was a war crime of the highest order 

even women and children were not spared 

so now US somehow has the moral high to accuse others? same US is supporting Israelis to kill poor Palestinians 

US opinion does not matter and no one will listen 

its shame Russians doing this to Ukraine, Ukrainians are nice people, would be better if it was the Polish or French on the receiving end

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## aziqbal

Vergennes said:


> But according to western haters living in the west like @Hassan Al-Somal they struck an important training base and western weapons depot and killed three trillion Ukrainian soldiers...



When Muslims wanted to go fight in Iraq against American invaders and imperialists they were arrested and called terrorists

yet US is actually encouraging its citizens and retired army soldiers to go fight in Ukraine even supplying weapons

good we will see these foreign mercenaries get cooked by Russian missiles, Russians have no mercy and foreign fighters have been getting hammered by Russian missiles

one good example is Lviv back in March 2022, Russian Air Force launched over 30 x cruise missiles at that terrorist training camp, 600 foreign terrorist were exterminated and media did a cover up

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541518964945260545

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541518967378006017

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541518969617764355

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541518971815469058

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541518973900029953

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541518976123129856


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541518979147120640

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541518981298806786

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541518983131807747

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541532019242442754

The work of the Russian Nazi terror state after hitting a mall with 2 missiles. RIP to all the innocent lives lost and lives destroyed by the Russian Nazis.

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## Wergeland

aziqbal said:


> When Muslims wanted to go fight in Iraq against American invaders and imperialists they were arrested and called terrorists
> 
> yet US is actually encouraging its citizens and retired army soldiers to go fight in Ukraine even supplying weapons
> 
> good we will see these foreign mercenaries get cooked by Russian missiles, Russians have no mercy and foreign fighters have been getting hammered by Russian missiles
> 
> one good example is Lviv back in March 2022, Russian Air Force launched over 30 x cruise missiles at that terrorist training camp, 600 foreign terrorist were exterminated and media did a cover up



Those «mercenaries» are white christian terrorists. Do not let them tell you otherwise. This is classical twisting of words from white supremacists; when it suits their agenda someone is freedom fighter and benevolent and at whim they will label anyone they dont like as terrorists.

What difference is it between Russia occupying eastern Ukraine and Israel occupying Palestine? Zilch. But these morally corrupt people dare to come and lecture people.

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## RoadAmerica

_Nabil_ said:


> Stupid propaganda 🤣😂
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541235684316291073


but they did so it’s not propaganda

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## _Nabil_

RoadAmerica said:


> but they did so it’s not propaganda


From CNN:









West pushes Russia into its first foreign debt default since 1918 | CNN Business


Russia has defaulted on its foreign debt for the first time since the Bolshevik revolution more than a century ago.




www.google.com





The European Union also made it harder for Moscow to meet its debt obligations earlier this month by sanctioning Russia's National Settlement Depository, the country's agent for its foreign currency bonds.

Still, it took longer than many had expected: Sanctions have largely failed to cripple Russia's economy, as surging energy prices have padded the country's coffers.

Meanwhile, Russia's currency has soared to a seven-year high against the US dollar.

The country managed to pay back creditors with dollars in April after a long saga that put it on the brink of default. The country's finance ministry said in April that it made a $565 million eurobond that was due this year, as well as an $84 million eurobond that was set to mature in 2024. Both payments were made in US dollars, the finance ministry claimed, as required by the bond's contract stipulations.

*But that wasn't possible this time around, given the recent moves by US and EU authorities.*

_@jhungary The "Could" that I missed_

Russian Finance Minister Siluanov was quoted by state-owned news agency Ria Novosti as saying last week that the sanctions meant Moscow had no "other method left to get funds to investors, except to make payments in Russian rubles."

The Russian finance ministry said in a Telegram post on May 27 that the Russian National Settlement Depository had made the required payments of $71 million and €26.5 million.

"Allegations of default are incorrect because the necessary currency payment was made as early as back in May," Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said during a regular call with reporters on Monday.

The fact that money transferred to Euroclear was not delivered to investors was "not our problem," he said.

"So there are no grounds to call it a default," he said.


Euroclear can't settle any securities with counterparties that are subject to sanctions.

Since 2014, the last time the West sanctioned Russia over its annexation of Crimea, the Kremlin had built up about $640 billion in foreign reserves. About half of those funds are now frozen under Western sanctions imposed after the invasion of Ukraine.

It's not clear what effect — if any — the default will have on Russia's economy in the near term, as the country is already unable to borrow abroad and its existing bonds have collapsed in value to pennies on the dollar.

But in the long term, Russians will almost certainly suffer. The country's assault on Ukraine has left it with few friends in the international community, and the default will likely cut off access to foreign financing for years.


But you both know better than CNN Business 🤣😂😁

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541527783523885063

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541388851528212485

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541533140128260099

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541541663323086849

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## comci

Apollon said:


> I consider India a 3rd world hellhole. So dont insult me.



What are you talking about? Insulting you? nahh, dont you know it by now? India is a superpower. No need to be shame to be indian.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541498674366349315

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541427563888771075

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541200669205532672

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541551196611248138


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541539951535427585

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541535108582227972

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541513449053851648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541333089221312512

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541484129530875908

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## Hassan Al-Somal

A.P. Richelieu said:


> It certainly beats your lies coming directly from RT.
> 
> You support every dictatorial country which represses their citizens.
> Saddam, Gadaffi, Maduro, Castro, Assad, Kin Jong Un lack legality
> but still have your full support.
> 
> You conveniently forget that 90-95% of those killed in Iraq are killed by your idols.
> 99% of Syrians killed are killed by the illegal Assad regime, and Russia.
> Russias intervention in Syria cause the 10-15 million Syrians to become refugees.
> Afghanistan was destroyed by the Taliban, and those that funded and armed the Taliban. That happened before 9/11.
> Palestinians have screwed up so much that all their Arab neighbours hate their guts. They tried to take over Jordan and Lebanon, support ISIS in Sinai. Latest is Syria, not forgetting upsetting all the Gulf States.
> Both Pakistan and Egypt armies are quite independent and make their own decision. The recent coup attempt in Turkey should probably be called a counter coup, since it is quite obvious that Erdogan was planning a purge of his opposition.
> The rushed coup seems to be a desperate attempt to forestall that purge,
> 
> You do not get to define which countries are sanctioned.
> 
> The Ukraine conflict started when Putin bribed/blackmailed Yanukovich into signing a deal with Russia against all agreements.
> That was the start of the real coup. Then Russia sent troops to Donetsk disguised as volunteers. ”Volunteers” do not have heavy artillery.
> Yanukovich remained President until the end of his term, and new elections were held in 2015. Yanukovich refused to do his job, escaping to Russia under FSB protection to avoid being impeached.




Ok the Zionist troll who is hiding behind the Sweddish flag. The amount of false information that you expressed against Palestinians clearly points to who you're. Bye now and don't quite me. Don't want to read your diarrhea.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541563056945258496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541533573366284289

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541533573366284289

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541448155300085760

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541567708357074951


----------



## The SC

A.P. Richelieu said:


> It certainly beats your lies coming directly from RT.
> 
> You support every dictatorial country which represses their citizens.
> Saddam, Gadaffi, Maduro, Castro, Assad, Kin Jong Un lack legality
> but still have your full support.


Why did you jump Ukraine killing its own citizen in Donbas since 2014? HaHa!

These comments of yours always betray your mentality.. a racist one we can add..

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## jhungary

_Nabil_ said:


> From CNN:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> West pushes Russia into its first foreign debt default since 1918 | CNN Business
> 
> 
> Russia has defaulted on its foreign debt for the first time since the Bolshevik revolution more than a century ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The European Union also made it harder for Moscow to meet its debt obligations earlier this month by sanctioning Russia's National Settlement Depository, the country's agent for its foreign currency bonds.
> 
> Still, it took longer than many had expected: Sanctions have largely failed to cripple Russia's economy, as surging energy prices have padded the country's coffers.
> 
> Meanwhile, Russia's currency has soared to a seven-year high against the US dollar.
> 
> The country managed to pay back creditors with dollars in April after a long saga that put it on the brink of default. The country's finance ministry said in April that it made a $565 million eurobond that was due this year, as well as an $84 million eurobond that was set to mature in 2024. Both payments were made in US dollars, the finance ministry claimed, as required by the bond's contract stipulations.
> 
> *But that wasn't possible this time around, given the recent moves by US and EU authorities.*
> 
> _@jhungary The "Could" that I missed_
> 
> Russian Finance Minister Siluanov was quoted by state-owned news agency Ria Novosti as saying last week that the sanctions meant Moscow had no "other method left to get funds to investors, except to make payments in Russian rubles."
> 
> The Russian finance ministry said in a Telegram post on May 27 that the Russian National Settlement Depository had made the required payments of $71 million and €26.5 million.
> 
> "Allegations of default are incorrect because the necessary currency payment was made as early as back in May," Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said during a regular call with reporters on Monday.
> 
> The fact that money transferred to Euroclear was not delivered to investors was "not our problem," he said.
> 
> "So there are no grounds to call it a default," he said.
> 
> 
> Euroclear can't settle any securities with counterparties that are subject to sanctions.
> 
> Since 2014, the last time the West sanctioned Russia over its annexation of Crimea, the Kremlin had built up about $640 billion in foreign reserves. About half of those funds are now frozen under Western sanctions imposed after the invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> It's not clear what effect — if any — the default will have on Russia's economy in the near term, as the country is already unable to borrow abroad and its existing bonds have collapsed in value to pennies on the dollar.
> 
> But in the long term, Russians will almost certainly suffer. The country's assault on Ukraine has left it with few friends in the international community, and the default will likely cut off access to foreign financing for years.
> 
> 
> But you both know better than CNN Business 🤣😂



First of all, if you look at CNN article closer, you will know that that payment in question were made *IN ROUBLE*, not in USD as denominated. The clearing house they use "Euroclear" does not accept that transaction as they did not allow rouble

This is what Russian Finance Anton Siluanov said back in May 25 when he made said "Payment"









Russia thinks it has found a way around Washington's dollar bond payment blockade


Russia is exploring a new way of circumventing U.S. sanctions preventing Moscow from servicing its dollar-denominated debt payments to foreign bondholders.




www.cnbc.com







> On Friday, the Russian Finance Ministry wired $100 million in interest payments on two eurobonds *in rubles* to its domestic settlement house, but unless the money finds its way to the bank accounts of overseas bondholders, it may constitute a default.



Sure, they have paid, not in that currency denominated. It's like if I own my bank 700,000 AUD loan for my house in Australia, and I offer to pay them 3.5 millions Hong Kong Dollars, what do you think will happened? You think the bank will convert that currency for me for free? Not to mention what I have in mind of "exchange rate" is not what the bank have in mind.

If you look back at what I said. You will see I said this



> To be fair, Putin should have more than 100 millions USD (The default payment) to pay the debt, hell, he himself probably have 100 millions USD to pay for it. Bear in mind Paying off Russian loan with USD is allowed by US federal bank. And he did make the previous 4 (or 5) payment.
> 
> He choose not to, so, you got defaulted, it's that simple.



Russia have at least 300 billions in USD denomination before the war started, they should have 100 millions USD to clear the payment, they didn't.

US had not, and did not, and most importantly, CANNOT stop Russia from paying their foreign debt. What US did, in my previous post, is limit Russia Central bank ability to move USD from from T-Bill, in case you are wondering, T-Bill is what US pay Russia in interest for holding US bond, essentially said US stop paying interest of Russian T-Bill, this is a dick move because that is what US owe to Russia in interest, but then wasn't the entire sanction a dick move? Because you freeze Russian asset.

On the other hand, you don't need a degree in economic to know US law only applies to US entity, and EU law only applies to EU bank, Russia have USD and Euro in both hard cash and line of credit within their own bank. How do you suppose US and Euro to interfere with what Russian bank do if the process of paying Russian debt to its debtor is outside any of those US or EU bank? Either entity can only interfere when those currency are at their hand, not already at Russian hand.

If Russia want to pay that debt in USD and Euro, Putin are able to do it and they will not default. *HE CHOOSE NOT TO AND PAY WITH ROUBLE*.

I don't know more than CNN, but seems like you don't know anything regarding the situation at all.

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 27​Jun 27, 2022 - Press ISW


Download the PDF
*
Kateryna Stepanenko, Karolina Hird, Mason Clark, George Barros and Grace Mappes
June 27, 4:45pm ET*​*Click here to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
A Russian missile strike hit a shopping mall in a residential area of Kremenchuk, Poltava Oblast on June 27, likely killing many civilians.[1] *Ukrainian sources stated that over 1,000 civilians were inside the mall at the time of the strike, and officials are still clarifying the number of casualties.[2] The Kremenchuk strike follows a wider intensification of Russian missile strikes against Ukrainian infrastructure and civilian targets in recent days. Advisor to the Ukrainian Ministry of Internal Affairs Vadym Denisenko stated on June 26 that Russian forces have begun a campaign of massive and largely indiscriminate missile strikes against Ukrainian cities, which echoes statements made by an unnamed US defense official on June 27 that Russian forces are increasingly relying on artillery and missile strikes to advance operations in Ukraine.[3] As Russian forces continue to burn through their supply of high-precision weaponry, such attacks that cause substantial collateral civilian damage will likely escalate.[4]
*Russian military authorities continue to seek ways to replenish their increasingly exhausted force capabilities without announcing general mobilization. *An unnamed senior US defense official stated on June 27 that Russian forces are likely running low on senior military leaders and are relying more heavily on retired officers and reserves to replace officer casualties.[5] The UK Ministry of Defense similarly reported that Russian forces will likely rely heavily on reserve echelons, namely the Combat Army Reserve (BARS) and Human Mobilization Resource, in order to galvanize volunteer support and fill out the third battalion tactical group (BTG) within regular (and depleted) brigades.[6] As ISW has previously assessed, such reserves are unlikely to provide Russian forces with meaningful regeneration of force capabilities.
*Key Takeaways:*

*Russian forces struck a shopping mall in Kremenchuk as part of a recent escalation in strikes against Ukrainian infrastructure and cities.*
*Russian forces made incremental advances southwest of Lysychansk near the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway but have not entirely severed Ukrainian lines of communication into Bakhmut.*
*Russian forces made measured advances during offensive operations to the east of Bakhmut.*
*Ukrainian forces repelled Russian offensives north of Slovyansk.*
*Russian forces made limited and localized attacks along contested frontlines around Kharkiv City but did not make any advances on June 27.*
*Ukrainian counteroffensives along the Southern Axis continue to force Russian troops to prioritize defensive operations along the line of contact.*
*Russian occupation authorities are taking steps to strengthen economic control of occupied territories and force Ukrainian civilians to switch to the ruble.*
*
Click here to enlarge the map.*



*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis;
Activities in Russian-Occupied Areas 
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Click here to enlarge the map.
*



*
Click here to enlarge the map.




Russian forces made marginal advances southwest of Lysychansk on June 27 but have not yet entirely severed Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to the city. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces conducted a partially successful advance west of Vovchoyarivka towards the T1302 Lysychansk-Bakhmut highway (just 5 km south of Lysychansk) but are unlikely to have reached the T1302 in this area as of June 27 due to Ukrainian resistance in Verkhnokamyanka.[7] Russian forces are also securing positions in the southern territory of the Lysychansk Oil Refinery and maintained artillery fire against Ukrainian positions around the Lysychansk Gelatin Plant.[8] Ukrainian forces reportedly repelled Russian attacks north of Pidlisne, situated just south of the Lysychansk Gelatin Plant. Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai called on Lysychansk residents to evacuate from the city, indicating Ukrainian forces retain control of at least some GLOCs to the city.[9] Russian Telegram channels continue to claim that Russian forces have established “fire control” (likely meaning successfully interdicting Ukrainian movement) along Ukrainian GLOCs to Lysychansk on the Siversk-Bilohorivka road, however.[10]
Ukrainian forces continued to resist Russian advances towards the T1302 to the east of Bakhmut on June 27. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces conducted unsuccessful reconnaissance-in-force attempts around Yakovlivka, Spirne, and Berestove, all along the T1302 highway within 30 km northeast of Bakhmut.[11] Russian forces continued to shell Ukrainian positions in Bilohorivka, also likely in an effort to sever the GLOC by forcing Ukrainian forces out of settlements along the T1302.[12] Russian and Ukrainian sources reported ongoing fighting in Klynove, where Russian forces are attempting to gain a foothold on the E40 highway to Slovyansk.[13] Ukrainian forces reportedly repulsed Russian assaults on Klynove but confirmed that Russian forces continued advancing in settlements just west of the E40.[14] Ukrainian forces also likely used recently US-provided HIMARS rocket artillery systems to strike a Russian ammunition depot approximately 60 km east in Russian-controlled territory in Luhansk Oblast.[15] 
Russian forces conducted unsuccessful offensive operations north of Slovyansk on June 27. Kharkiv Oblast Administration Head Oleg Synegubov reported that Ukrainian forces resisted Russian attacks in Mazanivka and Dolyna along the E40.[16] Russian offensive operations have been largely stalled around the Izyum axis since Russian shifted their focus to secure the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area. The UK Defense Ministry noted that heavy shelling around Izyum may indicate Russian attempts to “regain momentum” along this axis, but Russian forces will likely need to deprioritize advances in Luhansk Oblast to resume offensive operations north of Slovyansk.[17] Russian forces did not attempt to launch a ground assault on settlements in the Slovyansk or Siversk areas from Lyman.[18] 
*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum)*
Click here to enlarge the map.
*



*
Russian forces conducted localized but unsuccessful assaults on settlements northwest and southeast of Kharkiv City. Kharkiv Oblast Administration Head Oleg Synegubov reported that Russian forces conducted unsuccessful attacks against Pytomnyk and Dementiivka, both situated along the E105 Kharkiv-Belgorod City highway.[19] The Ukrainian General Staff also reported that Ukrainian forces repulsed Russian attacks in Dovhalivka and Zalyman, approximately 90km southeast of Kharkiv City in the direction of Izyum.[20] Russian forces also reportedly continued remote mining, shelling, and radio-technical reconnaissance in settlements around Kharkiv City, likely in an effort to disrupt any attempted Ukrainian counterattacks.[21] Former Russian Federal Security Service officer and milblogger Igor Girkin (Strelkov) claimed that Russian forces presently lack the strength or motivation to launch offensive operations in northern and central Kharkiv Oblast but are likely to continue defending occupied positions as a “springboard” for potential future attacks against Kharkiv City.[22] 
*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Click here to enlarge the map.




Russian forces continued to focus on defensive operations along the Southern Axis on June 27.[23] Ongoing Ukrainian counteroffensives along the Kherson-Mykolaiv border are likely successfully pressuring Russian defenses. An unnamed US defense official stated that Ukrainian troops liberated “several” unidentified settlements in Kherson Oblast over the weekend, and the Head of Ukraine’s Southern Defense Force Joint Coordinating Press Center stated that Russian forces are continuing to prepare and strengthen second and third defensive lines in Kherson Oblast due to persistent Ukrainian counteroffensives in the area.[24] Russian forces once again unsuccessfully attempted to regain lost positions in Potomkyne, in northern Kherson Oblast.[25] The Ukrainian General Staff additionally reported that Russian forces may carry out assault operations in unspecified areas to reach the Kherson Oblast border.[26] This statement indicates that Russian troops may hope to eventually counteract Ukrainian advances on the Southern Axis and regain more advantageous positions, although their prospects for successfully doing so are ultimately unclear considering their generally-degraded force capabilities.
Russian forces conducted air strikes against Ukrainian positions in Kherson Oblast, artillery strikes against various locations in Dnipropetrovsk and Mykolaiv Oblasts, and a missile attack against residential infrastructure in Odesa Oblast.[27] Ukrainian forces continued strikes on the Russian grouping in Snake Island, likely in order to complicate Russian attempts to consolidate their presence in and control of the northwestern Black Sea.[28]
*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian authorities continued to take measures to strengthen the economic integration of occupied areas into Russian systems on June 27. First Deputy Head of the Kherson Oblast Council Yury Sobolevskyi stated on June 26 that Russian authorities are opening the first branch of the Russian state-backed Promsvyazbank in Kherson Oblast.[29] Sobolevskyi added that Russian authorities are distributing one-time 10,000-ruble payments to ”almost everyone” to foster economic reliance on the ruble economy.[30] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command additionally reported that Russian authorities in Kherson City are seizing banking institutions and issuing Russian salary cards to those working in enterprises that have been co-opted by Russian occupation authorities.[31] Such actions are likely intended to force occupied areas to become increasingly reliant on the ruble, stimulating long term integration into the Russian economy.

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## _Nabil_

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541218728108605440


Initial post : Russia default on debt paiement 


_Nabil_ said:


> Stupid propaganda 🤣😂
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541235684316291073


It's not default as money is available and sent .



jhungary said:


> To be fair, Putin should have more than 100 millions USD (The default payment) to pay the debt, hell, he himself probably have 100 millions USD to pay for it. Bear in mind Paying off Russian loan with USD is allowed by US federal bank. And he did make the previous 4 (or 5) payment.
> 
> He choose not to, so, you got defaulted, it's that simple.





jhungary said:


> First of all, if you look at CNN article closer, you will know that that payment in question were made *IN ROUBLE*, not in USD as denominated. The clearing house they use "Euroclear" does not accept that transaction as they did not allow rouble
> 
> This is what Russian Finance Anton Siluanov said back in May 25 when he made said "Payment"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia thinks it has found a way around Washington's dollar bond payment blockade
> 
> 
> Russia is exploring a new way of circumventing U.S. sanctions preventing Moscow from servicing its dollar-denominated debt payments to foreign bondholders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, they have paid, not in that currency denominated. It's like if I own my bank 700,000 AUD loan for my house in Australia, and I offer to pay them 3.5 millions Hong Kong Dollars, what do you think will happened? You think the bank will convert that currency for me for free? Not to mention what I have in mind of "exchange rate" is not what the bank have in mind.


Simple, if your bank receive less 1AUD from your payment in HG dollars, they will put it on your debit note and ask you to clear it 


jhungary said:


> If you look back at what I said. You will see I said this
> 
> 
> 
> Russia have at least 300 billions in USD denomination before the war started, they should have 100 millions USD to clear the payment, they didn't.
> 
> US had not, and did not, and most importantly, CANNOT stop Russia from paying their foreign debt. What US did, in my previous post, is limit Russia Central bank ability to move USD from from T-Bill, in case you are wondering, T-Bill is what US pay Russia in interest for holding US bond, essentially said US stop paying interest of Russian T-Bill, this is a dick move because that is what US owe to Russia in interest, but then wasn't the entire sanction a dick move? Because you freeze Russian asset.
> 
> On the other hand, you don't need a degree in economic to know US law only applies to US entity, and EU law only applies to EU bank, Russia have USD and Euro in both hard cash and line of credit within their own bank. How do you suppose US and Euro to interfere with what Russian bank do if the process of paying Russian debt to its debtor is outside any of those US or EU bank? Either entity can only interfere when those currency are at their hand, not already at Russian hand.
> 
> If Russia want to pay that debt in USD and Euro, Putin are able to do it and they will not default. *HE CHOOSE NOT TO AND PAY WITH ROUBLE*.
> 
> I don't know more than CNN, but seems like you don't know anything regarding the situation at all.


Bla bla bla, .... No need to jump from one subject to another, the matter is simple, Russia isn't technically in default, payment is done and the western banks and institutions refuse to process the paiements.

The west is trying to make a fuse about it and show like Russia is bankrupt and financially can't pay it's debts, that's why I called it stupid propaganda, they want to make a point where there is no point at all ...

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Raffie said:


> The Putin's regime even brags about engineering the famine, Mao Zedong/Stalin-style, but their goals are global!:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538911097138331648
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Somalia faces worst famine in decades amid war in Ukraine
> 
> 
> Aid workers report that Somalian children are at greatest risk, with some even dying in plain sight. Like many African countries, Somalia relies on wheat imports from Ukraine, which is currently defending its right to exist amid a Russian invasion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theblackwallsttimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Children 'Dying Before Our Eyes': Aid Workers Plea for Help as Famine Unfolds in Somalia
> 
> 
> "Already 1.5 million children below the age of five are malnourished," says the U.N.'s Adam Adbelmoula, "and we expect that 356,000 of these may not survive through the end of September."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.commondreams.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Revisiting Somalia in the face of famine
> 
> 
> With another dry season in Somalia, the country could see famine again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear [B]Hassan Al-Somal[/B] : I hope you don't have family left in Somalia, if bread is now rationed in Egypt and Tunisia, Somalia seem to have way more severe issues...
> You apparently live somewhere in the West... Never considered this might become reality for you, except Russia would be replaced by Somalia :
> View attachment 857404
> 
> *???????*
> 
> 
> 
> Most watched broadcast on Russian TV :
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513331072007909379State-owned RIA/Novosti news agency :
> View attachment 857395
> 
> Russian Orthodox Church published:
> View attachment 857396
> 
> How funny how Kremlin trolls try to hide what Russian state doesn't even tries to hide...
> View attachment 857398
> 
> And when a guy like Lavrov tells the truth, don't be surprised if it's grim. Usually, we get a Lavrovism instead:
> View attachment 857399
> View attachment 857400
> 
> 
> Poor? They receive 4x the minimum salary in Algeria a month as a pension from the UN, this is also 2x+ the minimum salary in Bulgaria, the salary of an engineer in Russia, and close to the minimum salary in Portugal at doing absolutely nothing. This why they will struggle to avoid ending with a Pali state and peace: the day it will happen, all those living pretty well on UN refugee-subsides, and the UNRWA siphons more money from the UN than the UNHCR which helps all other refugees on the planet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When it comes to be killed, your life is less at risk as a Hamas human shield than if you travel by car in Iran
> View attachment 857376
> 
> 
> Yeah! Time to tell the truth about the Palestinians, with what the MSM don't show to the public because such truth doesn't sells, while Pallywood always does great, and for a very cheap investment!
> *Looking at Pali towns, these seem as poor as Luxembourg*
> View attachment 857377
> View attachment 857378
> 
> View attachment 857379
> View attachment 857381
> 
> View attachment 857383
> View attachment 857384
> 
> 
> I don't remember whom from Lenin or Goebbels declared : "Repeat a lie a thousand time and it will become the truth." ???




Agree. Slavics are liars. Never trust them. Pakistanis are Aryans and most of us support our Nazi brothers in Germany and Ukraine.

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## jhungary

_Nabil_ said:


> Initial post : Russia default on debt paiement
> 
> It's not default as money is available and sent .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Simple, if your bank receive less 1AUD from your payment in HG dollars, they will put it on your debit note and ask you to clear it
> 
> Bla bla bla, .... No need to jump from one subject to another, the matter is simple, Russia isn't technically in default, payment is done and the western banks and institutions refuse to process the paiements.
> 
> The west is trying to make a fuse about it and show like Russia is bankrupt and financially can't pay it's debts, that's why I called it stupid propaganda, they want to make a point where there is no point at all ...


I don't even know where to start........I mean, exactly how much you know about finance and debt repayment? Or currency exchange for that matter??

First of all, let's start with the very obvious.....you do know exchanging currency would result in transaction fee, and they are not really cheap, usually between 1 to 3% of the money you want to exchange, you are talking about 100 millions USD loan payment, I am pretty sure the bank or whatever clearing house you use are more than happy to pay that 1 to 3 millions USD to exchange that for you. Amirite?









Foreign transaction vs. currency conversion fees - Clear Currency


Are you counting down to your upcoming foreign holiday, paying the bills for your property abroad, or running a business that makes international payments?




www.clearcurrency.co.uk






And lol, you are already in debt, and you are asking to put anything from that "DEBT REPAYMENT" that come up short in debit?? Sure, put my next debt repayment to debit so I wouldn't need to pay anything??

Bank (or Lender) is a bank, not a charity dude..........

And then there are the fact that Rouble is in sanction, what the clearing house can do with it? It goes no where. The debt require you to pay with USD, you pay with USD, you don't pay with Rouble. 

And I don't care if you or Russia think they are not in Default, for the international creditor, it mean nothing, Sure, next time when Russia need to borrow money from national debt, try to convince those international lender Russia were never in default because technically I pay the USD debt in Rouble. LOL Fat chance that would happen. Sure, you said you are not in default, let's lend you the money then... 

lol, the only thing Bla Bla Bla because you know nothing about how financial system works........I love people who know absolutely nothing about the topic at hand and then go all in on an offensive that they know nothing about....Geez, if you really believe in what you said then I can only say there are some serious issue with Turkey Banking system...

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## S10

F-22Raptor said:


> Russias intentional targeting of Ukrainian civilians is absolutely disgusting, and a crime against humanity.
> 
> The Russian Nazis deserve nothing less than to be bulldozed into the Earth.


As soon as your politicians commit mass suicide for Iraq, Syria, Libyan and dozens of countries you invaded/interfered with.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541513127589715969

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541577365846990851

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541578608719892480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541566155822866433

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541533858893647872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541533140128260099

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541533042036056066

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## Nuclear Clown

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Agree. Slavics are liars. Never trust them. Pakistanis are Aryans and most of us support our Nazi brothers in Germany and Ukraine.


So you're a "bon aryen" (pron. "Bon à rien")?
Unfortunately for you, you have more naZi brothers to support in Russia as, in both Germany and Ukraine, the far-right parties don't do great... 
*In Germany, you'll end convicted and even jailed for naZi activities:*
_Germany’s Laws on Hate Speech, Nazi Propaganda & Holocaust Denial: An Explainer_​Seriously, read the RIA/Novosti article, what the Russian Orthodox Church says and listen to the regime's pundits on Skabeeva's show: this is 100% _Mein Kampf_-OK! Russia is truly the 4th Reich!










Hopefully, Dmitri Rogozin, the head of neo-naZi party Rodina, is now the head of Rodcosmos agency, so maybe can he help you invading Pluto or a moon of Saturn, you'll be able to create an all Aryan world just for the racists... 




Thanks to Rogozin, Iron Sky will become reality!!! 




Rogozin will just change the flags on the Moon base!!! 




Note how the uniforms really look 4th Reich in🇷🇺
Postal service, military parades...








RuSSia is even innovating : the crematoriums are mobile !!! 




Mark my words, you'll feel at home in RuSSia, while, in Ukraine, c'mon, they elected a Jew as a president!!! 
As a naZi, you would even feel better in "Novarossiya" (LPR, DPR), Lebanon, Syria, Gaza or West-Bank:

















In 2022, ruSSia is one of the few true refuges fort true naZis like you!!!
Then, as a true naZi, Ukraine is a no go zone, just like Israel or NYC! You'd prefer to




than being in a non Jew-Free area, or you're not a true-naZi! The only reason you may move in would be in an oil tanker the size of the Seawise Giant, filled with Zyklon-B




French far-right leader Marine LePen may even request political asylum in Russia as she's persecuted and prosecuted by both EU and France for many cases of embezzlement, misuse of public funds, so, since Putin's bank has already funded several of her electoral campaigns. France is OK for a sanction waiver to her travel to ruSSia and even to pay for the flight, even to the Moon, on condition she never returns from ruSSia

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541586491771686914

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541586498516140033

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## dBSPL

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The recent coup attempt in Turkey should probably be called a counter coup, since it is quite obvious that Erdogan was planning a purge of his opposition.
> The rushed coup seems to be a desperate attempt to forestall that purge,


Which opposition, exactly which political party or which politician, parliamentary do you mean? Do you live in a banana republic? What are democratic institutions, what is opposition, nobody taught you?

I advise you to curb your arrogance, while sitting at your home in Sweden and speaking like an expert by eating the fiction of western media is makes you look more like a stupid orientalist rather than an expert.

You cannot characterize an armed terrorist organization as opposition here, which tries to push patriotic youth out of the system, while raising theirs indoctrinated youngs, with stolen exam questions. You cannot characterize an armed terrorist organization as opposition here, which they formed a parallel structure within the state structure, seized the judiciary system and imprisoning patriots with fake lawsuits, putting Turkish border security into difficulties, as even imprisoning cadres who opposed the French invasion of Libya, extorting money from tradesmen, and even assassinated Turkish intellectuals and journalists.

*

The Fetullahist terrorist organization is not a political bloc, it is not a political party at all. It is a pro-US terrorist organization that has an organizational scheme very similar to some ultramasonic sects, is governed by religious rituals, and aims to transform the republic, which was founded in 1923, into an Iranian-like administration structure.

When the investments they made in the 90s 2000s came to naught, and it was understood that the generals, who were determined to be FETO members in the high military council(YAŞ) decisions, would be taken out of service, they had to try a coup as a last resort (The coup preparation was known, the child was forced into premature birth, thus, all coup plotters were deciphered and removed/or neutralized from the system.) And When they realized that they could not achieve coup too, they massacred our civilian population and even bombed the Turkish Grand National Assembly by trying to create civil war. The Turkish Grand National Assembly was bombed. Even the Greek army, which tried to invade Asia Minor, did not do this.

Another fact, evidenced by intelligence reports, was that if FETO's civil war effort had been successful, there was great military preparation on our borders. Even the documents that came out of the coup plotters of the Fetö terrorist organization, who were caught trying to smuggle some tactical ballistic systems into the US-backed region in Syria on July 16, reveal the situation on their own. Despite all our struggle, If the putschist general Terzi had succeeded in taking the helm of Special Operations on the night of July 15, Turkiye might have woken up to a very different morning. Terrorist and putschist Terzi was killed by a patriot Turkish officer, Ömer Halisdemir.

On the night of July 15, all of our people fought heroically in the streets against this cult - sect - and terrorist organization and the elements that support them. We talked and struggled with every single soldier who was not involved in this business. We have persuaded thousands of soldiers by affectionately embracing them. We set fire to the lands around the air bases, barricade buses in front of the barracks, and shielded the squares and the roads by our bodies. That night, not only law enforcement or anti-coup military elements, but tens of millions were on the streets for a single purpose.

I will not allow anyone here to reduce our fight against this terrorist organization to the level of an opposition struggle. I am the living witness of all this and I was there. Know your limits.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541531657743876097


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## A.P. Richelieu

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Western Ukranians are followers of Banderas and they are certified Nazis.


The Nazi parties in Ukraine get 1-2% of the votes in elections.

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## Apollon

comci said:


> What are you talking about? Insulting you? nahh, dont you know it by now? India is a superpower. No need to be shame to be indian.



You are boring amigo.

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## kingQamaR

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The Nazi parties in Ukraine get 1-2% of the votes in elections.



Yes Very minor. In the last parliamentary elections in 2019 far right Svoboda party took 1-2% and did not pass parliamentary threshold.

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## A.P. Richelieu

dBSPL said:


> Which opposition, exactly which political party or which politician, parliamentary do you mean? Do you live in a banana republic? What are democratic institutions, what is opposition, nobody taught you?
> 
> I advise you to curb your arrogance, while sitting at your home in Sweden and speaking like an expert by eating the fiction of western media is makes you look more like a stupid orientalist rather than an expert.
> 
> You cannot characterize an armed terrorist organization as opposition here, which tries to push patriotic youth out of the system, while raising theirs indoctrinated youngs, with stolen exam questions. You cannot characterize an armed terrorist organization as opposition here, which they formed a parallel structure within the state structure, seized the judiciary system and imprisoning patriots with fake lawsuits, putting Turkish border security into difficulties, as even imprisoning cadres who opposed the French invasion of Libya, extorting money from tradesmen, and even assassinated Turkish intellectuals and journalists.
> 
> *
> 
> The Fetullahist terrorist organization is not a political bloc, it is not a political party at all. It is a pro-US terrorist organization that has an organizational scheme very similar to some ultramasonic sects, is governed by religious rituals, and aims to transform the republic, which was founded in 1923, into an Iranian-like administration structure.
> 
> When the investments they made in the 90s 2000s came to naught, and it was understood that the generals, who were determined to be FETO members in the high military council(YAŞ) decisions, would be taken out of service, they had to try a coup as a last resort (The coup preparation was known, the child was forced into premature birth, thus, all coup plotters were deciphered and removed/or neutralized from the system.) And When they realized that they could not achieve coup too, they massacred our civilian population and even bombed the Turkish Grand National Assembly by trying to create civil war. The Turkish Grand National Assembly was bombed. Even the Greek army, which tried to invade Asia Minor, did not do this.
> 
> Another fact, evidenced by intelligence reports, was that if FETO's civil war effort had been successful, there was great military preparation on our borders. Even the documents that came out of the coup plotters of the Fetö terrorist organization, who were caught trying to smuggle some tactical ballistic systems into the US-backed region in Syria on July 16, reveal the situation on their own. Despite all our struggle, If the putschist general Terzi had succeeded in taking the helm of Special Operations on the night of July 15, Turkiye might have woken up to a very different morning. Terrorist and putschist Terzi was killed by a patriot Turkish officer, Ömer Halisdemir.
> 
> On the night of July 15, all of our people fought heroically in the streets against this cult - sect - and terrorist organization and the elements that support them. We talked and struggled with every single soldier who was not involved in this business. We have persuaded thousands of soldiers by affectionately embracing them. We set fire to the lands around the air bases, barricade buses in front of the barracks, and shielded the squares and the roads by our bodies. That night, not only law enforcement or anti-coup military elements, but tens of millions were on the streets for a single purpose.
> 
> I will not allow anyone here to reduce our fight against this terrorist organization to the level of an opposition struggle. I am the living witness of all this and I was there. Know your limits.


It is known that in Turkey: (Opposition == Terrorists).
The fact that Turkey had lists of 100s of thousands of ”terrorists” all points at the preparation of a purge.

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## ckf

jhungary said:


> I don't even know where to start........I mean, exactly how much you know about finance and debt repayment? Or currency exchange for that matter??
> 
> First of all, let's start with the very obvious.....you do know exchanging currency would result in transaction fee, and they are not really cheap, usually between 1 to 3% of the money you want to exchange, you are talking about 100 millions USD loan payment, I am pretty sure the bank or whatever clearing house you use are more than happy to pay that 1 to 3 millions USD to exchange that for you. Amirite?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign transaction vs. currency conversion fees - Clear Currency
> 
> 
> Are you counting down to your upcoming foreign holiday, paying the bills for your property abroad, or running a business that makes international payments?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.clearcurrency.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And lol, you are already in debt, and you are asking to put anything from that "DEBT REPAYMENT" that come up short in debit?? Sure, put my next debt repayment to debit so I wouldn't need to pay anything??
> 
> Bank (or Lender) is a bank, not a charity dude..........
> 
> And then there are the fact that Rouble is in sanction, what the clearing house can do with it? It goes no where. The debt require you to pay with USD, you pay with USD, you don't pay with Rouble.
> 
> And I don't care if you or Russia think they are not in Default, for the international creditor, it mean nothing, Sure, next time when Russia need to borrow money from national debt, try to convince those international lender Russia were never in default because technically I pay the USD debt in Rouble. LOL Fat chance that would happen. Sure, you said you are not in default, let's lend you the money then...
> 
> lol, the only thing Bla Bla Bla because you know nothing about how financial system works........I love people who know absolutely nothing about the topic at hand and then go all in on an offensive that they know nothing about....Geez, if you really believe in what you said then I can only say there are some serious issue with Turkey Banking system...


Funny how you keep talking like u know anything about finance when all u type is blah blah. Sovereign default to Western Banks in case of Russia is mainly symbolic because Russia government has current account surplus and doesn't borrow from Western Banks ala US and EU gov't to finance current debt. What it has borrowed in the past is matter of Trust and Pride. What hurts Russia is financial flexibility since Russia corporation and government does not have access to cheap fiat capital. But primary producers like Russia will have to live within its means anyways. Russia corporate market for yankee and euro bond is really tiny anyways. One of the main emphasis of Brics summit is to develop alternate payment /credit institutions free from western banks/swift. G7 only account for 30% of global gdp but swift dominates 90% of global payment for trade. But Russia oil/gas and commodities is still successfully traded freely with China and India and non western countries. If sanctions fails to deter Russia in the future, we are in the process of watching sunset of Western banks domination in international finance. There are many concurrent initiatives across the world, rise of Bitcoin and ether, as well as fintech such as alipay, wepay, paytm, phonepe, and etc.

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## jhungary

ckf said:


> Funny how you keep talking like u know anything about finance when all u type is blah blah. Sovereign default to Western Banks in case of Russia is mainly symbolic because Russia government has current account surplus and doesn't borrow from Western Banks ala US and EU gov't to finance current debt. What it has borrowed in the past is matter of Trust and Pride. What hurts Russia is financial flexibility since Russia corporation and government does not have access to cheap fiat capital. But primary producers like Russia will have to live within its means anyways. Russia corporate market for yankee and euro bond is really tiny anyways. One of the main emphasis of Brics summit is to develop alternate payment /credit institutions free from western banks/swift. G7 only account for 30% of global gdp but swift dominates 90% of global payment for trade. But Russia oil/gas and commodities is still successfully traded freely with China and India and non western countries. If sanctions fails to deter Russia in the future, we are in the process of watching sunset of Western banks domination in international finance. There are many concurrent initiatives across the world, rise of Bitcoin and ether, as well as fintech such as alipay, wepay, paytm, phonepe, and etc.


So none of the 10 sentence said how or Why Russia refused to pay the USD in question, even when you yourself admited, Russia have a current Foreign surplus......

I am not interested in debating with you how Russia uses Alipay, WePay or UnionPay (which you missed) or how G7 dominate currency market, that is not the point of discussion here, we are talking about Russian Sovereign Debt. If they have a current surplus account, they should be able to pay for it. The only reason they default is because they don't want to pay them with that account..

And I do know about Finance and Economy, I don't know about you, because you post sounded a lot like a rant than to have actually support your point (If you have any) or try to challenge mine

By the way, G7, at 34 trillions GDP, account for 39.1% of world GDP (at 87 trillions) Not 30......

I mean, at least write something meaningful after you call me out, If my first word to you is "Funny you pretend to know how debt structure work" then I go on a tangent and talk about how BRICS works and what or why G7 dominate currency, I would have lost my creditability from the get go....

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## Clutch

F-22Raptor said:


> Russias intentional targeting of Ukrainian civilians is absolutely disgusting, and a crime against humanity.
> 
> The Russian Nazis deserve nothing less than to be bulldozed into the Earth.



Another wedding party in Afghanistan bombed by Russia???... This is outrageous!

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## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Ok the Zionist troll who is hiding behind the Sweddish flag. The amount of false information that you expressed against Palestinians clearly points to who you're. Bye now and don't quite me. Don't want to read your diarrhea.











Black September - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













Palestinian insurgency in South Lebanon - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













Hamas and the Islamic State: Growing Cooperation in the Sinai


Hamas has long sought to stymie Egyptian control over the peninsula and keep its weapons smuggling routes open, but its latest opportunistic gamble on local jihadists carries wider dangers that should be nipped in the bud by sponsors Turkey and Qatar.




www.washingtoninstitute.org













Palestinians face a 'new Nakba' in Syria


Palestinians with nowhere left to go are being collectively punished by the Assad regime.




www.trtworld.com





and when you have no argument, you head for the door.

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## Clutch

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541423903712722944
> The Russian Nazi terror state has now hit a shopping mall. The war crimes continue


Ukraine should stop storing weapons in malls and using human civilian shields....

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## Clutch

A.P. Richelieu said:


> In Your Eastern propaganda machine you forget that:
> The US did not start the Iraq war, Saddam did.
> The US did not start the Korean War, North Korea did.
> The US did not start the Vietnam War.



2003 America invaded Iraq on the pretext of WMDs.

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## A.P. Richelieu

Clutch said:


> 2003 America invaded Iraq on the pretext of WMDs.


The US simply terminated the cease-fire in the war started by Saddam.

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## dBSPL



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## sammuel

dBSPL said:


>




A nice gesture , usually reserved to governments rather than private companies.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Black September - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian insurgency in South Lebanon - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas and the Islamic State: Growing Cooperation in the Sinai
> 
> 
> Hamas has long sought to stymie Egyptian control over the peninsula and keep its weapons smuggling routes open, but its latest opportunistic gamble on local jihadists carries wider dangers that should be nipped in the bud by sponsors Turkey and Qatar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.washingtoninstitute.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians face a 'new Nakba' in Syria
> 
> 
> Palestinians with nowhere left to go are being collectively punished by the Assad regime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.trtworld.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and when you have no argument, you head for the door.












Islamic Jihad seeks to renew ties with Damascus


In light of burgeoning Arab interest in restoring ties with the Syrian regime, Palestine's Islamic Jihad movement headed to Damascus to secure political and financial support.




www.al-monitor.com













Has the Gaza crisis strengthened the Hamas-Hezbollah relationship?


The Palestinian resistance group and the Lebanese Shia armed group have had long-standing ties and the recent violence in Gaza might have helped to strengthen their connections.




www.trtworld.com













Palestinian Islamic Jihad Charts a Moderate Course?


Palestinian Islamic Jihad is broadening its mission and moving slowly down the same road taken earlier by Fatah and then Hamas.




carnegieendowment.org













Egypt’s role in Gaza: More than a mediator


Egypt often mediates between Hamas and Israel, but its role in Gaza extends to control of the Rafah border crossing.




www.aljazeera.com





"Hamas appreciated Egyptian efforts to de-escalate the tension between Gaza and Israel and the role Cairo plays in conveying messages from Palestinian factions to all parties."

Quit speaking through your arse and understand politics are not as black and white as you think.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> The US simply terminated the cease-fire in the war started by Saddam.












Iraq war was illegal and breached UN charter, says Annan


The United Nations secretary general, Kofi Annan, declared explicitly for the first time last night that the US-led war on Iraq was illegal.




www.theguardian.com





You argue for the sake of arguments.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541296315866439680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541296323080572929


Spoiler: GRAPHIC: Thousands of dead Ukrainian soldiers litter in the streets and alleys of Severodonetsk





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541664484061843458




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541665286922846208

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539131583986286597
Plus these other four 👇

Reactions: Like Like:
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## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Islamic Jihad seeks to renew ties with Damascus
> 
> 
> In light of burgeoning Arab interest in restoring ties with the Syrian regime, Palestine's Islamic Jihad movement headed to Damascus to secure political and financial support.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.al-monitor.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Has the Gaza crisis strengthened the Hamas-Hezbollah relationship?
> 
> 
> The Palestinian resistance group and the Lebanese Shia armed group have had long-standing ties and the recent violence in Gaza might have helped to strengthen their connections.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.trtworld.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Islamic Jihad Charts a Moderate Course?
> 
> 
> Palestinian Islamic Jihad is broadening its mission and moving slowly down the same road taken earlier by Fatah and then Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> carnegieendowment.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt’s role in Gaza: More than a mediator
> 
> 
> Egypt often mediates between Hamas and Israel, but its role in Gaza extends to control of the Rafah border crossing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Hamas appreciated Egyptian efforts to de-escalate the tension between Gaza and Israel and the role Cairo plays in conveying messages from Palestinian factions to all parties."
> 
> Quit speaking through your arse and understand politics are not as black and white as you think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iraq war was illegal and breached UN charter, says Annan
> 
> 
> The United Nations secretary general, Kofi Annan, declared explicitly for the first time last night that the US-led war on Iraq was illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You argue for the sake of arguments.


When you make irrational well rehearsed propaganda, a response is warranted.

Palestinians are not popular amongst their Arab neighbours since they bite the hand that feed them.

Why would Islamic Jihad need to restore relations, if they were good?

Hezbollah is a proxy for Iran, and the Hamas relations with Iran is a major reason why Palestinians are despised by the Gulf States and KSA.

Your link is supposed to support the view that Hamas is popular in Egypt?




They are at best tolerated after some grovelling.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541672155338915840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541670389499236352

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541440298647158787

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## ZeGerman

Clutch said:


> Another wedding party in Afghanistan bombed by Russia???... This is outrageous!


 No the russians just used to wipe out the entire village instead. 

Seriously. Bringing up afghanistan? 
Usa invasion. Thousands civilian dead
Russian invasion. Million civilian dead

I guess you dont care for afghans. They only matter when killed by american bullets but all other bullets are fine.

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539131583986286597
> Plus these other four 👇
> 
> View attachment 857452


Oops propaganda backfire.

What is the percentage in russia again?


https://media.vanityfair.com/photos/6220f642a4801d90e78cd399/7:3/w_1994,h_854,c_limit/vf-322-orth-putin.png


----------



## Nuclear Clown

Clutch said:


> Another wedding party in Afghanistan bombed by Russia???... This is outrageous!








Two wrong don't make a good, and the Yankees are not participating this invasion! Stop trying to excuse Russia's disgusting war crimes by others which BTW, may or may not have been deliberate, here we have a DELIBERATE ACT OF STATE TERRORISM. Moreover, exactly like with the Waffen-SS, the war crimes of ruSSian army are systemic and deliberate in order to terrorize the population, and then, the ruSSian invasion in itself is already a type of war crime that was enough to get you hanged at the Nuremberg trial, even if I agree that Butcher-Harris and Stalin should have been judged and hanged at Nuremberg too...

Now be aware that there are US citizens that are wanted for war crimes by the International Criminal Court, which include members of the CIA, US Armed Forces and even politicians, e.g. Henry Kissinger, Chenney, Rumsfeld or Dubya clearly avoid to enter countries that signed the 1998 Rome Treaty... 
At the same time, the cases are few as war crimes/crimes against humanity are not an US norm, actually, as all western forces, US military try to minimize collateral damages as much as possible.
It's not the same with Russia which uses of deliberate terror methods against populations. After 4 months in Ukraine only, there are already 20,000 court cases of war crimes under investigation... 
Now, I make myself no illusions about US or Russian criminals ending their days in The Hague's jail.















They ALL deserve :




Period !!!

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## Ali_Baba

Bullseye! Ukrainian soldiers use British-made Starstreak surface-to-air missile to 'shoot down' ANOTHER Russian helicopter​








Moment Ukrainian fighters down high-tech Russian helicopter


This is the striking moment Ukrainian fighters from Ukrainian 95th Air Assault Brigade shoot down high-tech KA-52 Russian helicopter worth £12million with a British-made Martlet Manpads missile.




www.dailymail.co.uk

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## mulj

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The US simply terminated the cease-fire in the war started by Saddam.


russia simply terminated cease fire in the war started by ukraina 2014. with advocating like this no wonder why russians gain more affection each day passing.

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## Nuclear Clown

Clutch said:


> Ukraine should stop storing weapons in malls and using human civilian shields....


Actually, weapons are all out of storage, Ukrainian army even refuses many voluntary enlistments by lack of equipments... 
The strike was done as a message to the G7 meeting...
Message perfectly received : G7 vowed not to give up support until the Orcs are fuly kicked back into Mordor and since Mordor strikes supermarkets, launching cruise missiles into Ukraine from abroad, we have very nice stealth yet affordable cruise missiles name SCALP, Apache and MdCN; SCALP and Apache can reach about 100km north from the center of Moscow while the MdCN can reach Leningrad or Koenigsberg. SCALP and MdCN have sub-metric accuracy, Apache has anti-runway submunitions, each will demolish 400m of foundations on an airport/airbase runway.
I can guarantee you that Ukraine won't blow innocent targets if they receive cruise missiles


----------



## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541689751639572481

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541732596761206786


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541742723878850563

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541735465057140737

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## Viet

The SC said:


> Why did you jump Ukraine killing its own citizen in Donbas since 2014? HaHa!
> 
> These comments of yours always betray your mentality.. a racist one we can add..


Ukraine fighting the separatists there are certain casualties. You mean they drink tea? Why you blame the killing? Do you think chinese invite the separatists in China to diner? Or you believe there are no casualties to Ukraine soldiers. Stupidity has limit.

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## MH.Yang

Apollon said:


> I consider India a 3rd world hellhole. So dont insult me.


We all know you are Indian. You should not insult your country in order to cover up your real nationality.

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## A.P. Richelieu

mulj said:


> russia simply terminated cease fire in the war started by ukraina 2014. with advocating like this no wonder why russians gain more affection each day passing.


The war in 2014 was started by Russia Invading Crimea.
Russia then started an ”insurgency” using Russian soldiers in disguise.

There is a significant correlation between supporting Russia and supporting criminal dictators.

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## MH.Yang

Viet said:


> Ukraine fighting the separatists there are certain casualties. You mean they drink tea? Why you blame the killing? Do you think chinese invite the separatists in China to diner? Or you believe there are no casualties to Ukraine soldiers. Stupidity has limit.


Why not? In recent years, the Chinese government has just ended the riots in Hong Kong and eliminated the separatist forces. Zero death. Ukraine should learn from China, or it should be hanged like Gaddafi and others.
Isn't the reason why Gaddafi was killed by the West because he killed the soldiers of the Benghazi separatist organization?
How many people died when the American people occupied Wall Street in 2011? Should we put Obama on the gallows?

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## northeast

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The war in 2014 was started by Russia Invading Crimea.


No,Crimeans voted to be united with russia,your western propaganda machine is shameless.

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## ckf

jhungary said:


> So none of the 10 sentence said how or Why Russia refused to pay the USD in question, even when you yourself admited, Russia have a current Foreign surplus......
> 
> I am not interested in debating with you how Russia uses Alipay, WePay or UnionPay (which you missed) or how G7 dominate currency market, that is not the point of discussion here, we are talking about Russian Sovereign Debt. If they have a current surplus account, they should be able to pay for it. The only reason they default is because they don't want to pay them with that account..
> 
> And I do know about Finance and Economy, I don't know about you, because you post sounded a lot like a rant than to have actually support your point (If you have any) or try to challenge mine
> 
> By the way, G7, at 34 trillions GDP, account for 39.1% of world GDP (at 87 trillions) Not 30......
> 
> I mean, at least write something meaningful after you call me out, If my first word to you is "Funny you pretend to know how debt structure work" then I go on a tangent and talk about how BRICS works and what or why G7 dominate currency, I would have lost my creditability from the get go....


Haha, you caught a typing mistake, but you still live in the past and failed to see G7 as percentage of global production and gdp per ppp has been falling for the last 20 years now accounts for only 32%. But you wouldn't care and keep spewing the same blah blah blah all day.

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## Akritas

Another war crime by the invading Russian forces .....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541432187660247040

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## A.P. Richelieu

northeast said:


> No,Crimeans voted to be united with russia,your western propaganda machine is shameless.


Russia scores 1.8/10 on election integrity.
Them *cheating* is the main reason.
An occupation power has no right to hold elections.



MH.Yang said:


> Why not? In recent years, the Chinese government has just ended the riots in Hong Kong and eliminated the separatist forces. Zero death. Ukraine should learn from China, or it should be hanged like Gaddafi and others.
> Isn't the reason why Gaddafi was killed by the West because he killed the soldiers of the separatist organization?
> How many people died when the American people occupied Wall Street in 2011? Should we put Obama on the gallows?



The UNSC decided to put a stop to Gadaffi because he killed demonstrators demanding democracy during the Arab Spring.
Gaddafi was killed by Libyans rebels.

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## Akritas

northeast said:


> No,Crimeans voted to be united with russia,your western propaganda machine is shameless.


You are wrong, first there was a Russian military intervention, then the liquidation of the Ukrainian authorities, deportation of people who do not like Russia (eg Tatars) and fibally the refenderum.

*The Crimean status referendum of 2014* was a disputed referendum because of the OSCE and UN absence, the fact that Russian citizens who had been in the Crimea for only a year proved to have voted, confiscation of IDs by Crimaian citizens not to vote and of course double and triple votes by the same people.

*After all, an occupying power has no authority to hold elections or referendums.*

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## MH.Yang

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Russia scores 1.8/10 on election integrity.
> Them *cheating* is the main reason.
> An occupation power has no right to hold elections.
> 
> 
> 
> The UNSC decided to put a stop to Gadaffi because he killed demonstrators demanding democracy during the Arab Spring.
> Gaddafi was killed by Libyans rebels.


I'm not really trying to defend Gaddafi. Gaddafi supports Taiwan, and the Chinese also want Gaddafi to die, so we do not use the veto. 
I just want to tell you that the Ukrainian government is really a Nazi. Their massacre of East Ukrainians is no different from that of Gaddafi.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541772906371469317


----------



## Apollon

MH.Yang said:


> We all know you are Indian. You should not insult your country in order to cover up your real nationality.



You get more boring evry day dude. You 3rd worlders amuse me. You guys come all from abhorrend poor places and attack each other who is in worst state. Its amusing.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541777078164545536


----------



## MH.Yang

Akritas said:


> You are wrong, first there was a Russian military intervention, then the liquidation of the Ukrainian authorities, deportation of people who do not like Russia (eg Tatars) and fibally the refenderum.
> 
> *The Crimean status referendum of 2014* was a disputed referendum because of the OSCE and UN absence, the fact that Russian citizens who had been in the Crimea for only a year proved to have voted, confiscation of IDs by Crimaian citizens not to vote and of course double and triple votes by the same people.
> 
> *After all, an occupying power has no authority to hold elections or referendums.*


Come on, this kind of lie can't fool us.

If the eastern Ukrainians support the Western Ukrainian govt, they will not be able to resist the attack of the Western Ukrainian govt army for eight years. We all know that the militia and guerrillas cannot survive without the support of the local people.

This is the same reason that the Taliban must have the support of most Afghans. If the Taliban did not have the support of Afghans, how could they persist for 20 years under the strangulation of the US Army?

The biggest mistake of the Russians is to recognize the independence of Crimea and other eastern Ukraine regions. Without the permission of the UN Security Council and the central govt, local govts have no right to vote for independence.

If Russia wants to overthrow the govt of western Ukraine, it should carry out war on the premise of guaranteeing Ukraine's sovereignty. For example, a new Ukrainian govt was established in eastern Ukraine, and then volunteer troops were sent to help the new govt overthrow the Nazi govt in western Ukraine.
If Russia does so, then they are the Party of absolute justice.

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## A.P. Richelieu

MH.Yang said:


> I'm not really trying to defend Gaddafi. Gaddafi supports Taiwan, and the Chinese also want Gaddafi to die, so we do not use the veto.
> I just want to tell you that the Ukrainian government is really a Nazi. Their massacre of East Ukrainians is no different from that of Gaddafi.


There is a huge difference between citizens demonstrating for democracy and a foreign country starting an insurgency using their own soldiers disguised as locals equipped with heavy weapons.
Ukraine is fighting a war of self-defense against Russia in Donbass since 2014.

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## MH.Yang

A.P. Richelieu said:


> There is a huge difference between citizens demonstrating for democracy and a foreign country starting an insurgency using their own soldiers disguised as locals equipped with heavy weapons.
> Ukraine is fighting a war of self-defense against Russia in Donbass since 2014.


Come on, we have basic IQ. The East Ukrainian militia must have the support of local people. Don't repeat such lies.

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## Apollon

MH.Yang said:


> Come on, we have basic IQ. The East Ukrainian militia must have the support of local people. Don't repeat such lies.



If they have support of locals, why is there such heavy resistance against them?

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## The SC

Viet said:


> Ukraine fighting the separatists there are certain casualties. You mean they drink tea? Why you blame the killing? Do you think chinese invite the separatists in China to diner? Or you believe there are no casualties to Ukraine soldiers. Stupidity has limit.


Yes indeed stupidity has limits.. because your comment does not make sense..they were/are killing people just because they speak Russian..this is beyond politics..

Reactions: Like Like:
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## jhungary

ckf said:


> Haha, you caught a typing mistake, but you still live in the past and failed to see G7 as percentage of global production and gdp per ppp has been falling for the last 20 years now accounts for only 32%. But you wouldn't care and keep spewing the same blah blah blah all day.


What's that (GDP/Currency imbalance ) have to do with Russian failed to pay the interest payment when they can?

Also, there are ALWAYS going to be imbalance seeing US Dollars is *THE DOMINANT* currency with roughly 58% usage. You can stop using USD if you want, but that's you. And I will call that a dumb move.

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## Apollon

More russian positions bite the dust

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## mulj

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The war in 2014 was started by Russia Invading Crimea.
> Russia then started an ”insurgency” using Russian soldiers in disguise.
> 
> There is a significant correlation between supporting Russia and supporting criminal dictators.


I do not care really but if i would folĺow your logic it started when they started to opress russians in ukraina.

Spare me that dictator bullshit as the west did not lick balls of various dictators when suited to their interests, so it amuses me when moral card is driven out.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Clutch

Raffie said:


> View attachment 857451
> 
> Two wrong don't make a good, and the Yankees are not participating this invasion! Stop trying to excuse Russia's disgusting war crimes by others which BTW, may or may not have been deliberate, here we have a DELIBERATE ACT OF STATE TERRORISM. Moreover, exactly like with the Waffen-SS, the war crimes of ruSSian army are systemic and deliberate in order to terrorize the population, and then, the ruSSian invasion in itself is already a type of war crime that was enough to get you hanged at the Nuremberg trial, even if I agree that Butcher-Harris and Stalin should have been judged and hanged at Nuremberg too...
> 
> Now be aware that there are US citizens that are wanted for war crimes by the International Criminal Court, which include members of the CIA, US Armed Forces and even politicians, e.g. Henry Kissinger, Chenney, Rumsfeld or Dubya clearly avoid to enter countries that signed the 1998 Rome Treaty...
> At the same time, the cases are few as war crimes/crimes against humanity are not an US norm, actually, as all western forces, US military try to minimize collateral damages as much as possible.
> It's not the same with Russia which uses of deliberate terror methods against populations. After 4 months in Ukraine only, there are already 20,000 court cases of war crimes under investigation...
> Now, I make myself no illusions about US or Russian criminals ending their days in The Hague's jail.
> 
> View attachment 857463
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They ALL deserve :
> View attachment 857464
> 
> Period !!!




There is a big difference between whataboutism and hypocrisy.

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## Clutch

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The US simply terminated the cease-fire in the war started by Saddam.



You can spin any war of aggression in such ways. Just depends how long your "cease-fire" is... Decades.... Centuries???

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## Apollon

mulj said:


> I do not care really but if i would folĺow your logic it started when they started to opress russians in ukraina.
> 
> Spare me that dictator bullshit as the west did not lick balls of various dictators when suited to their interests, so it amuses me when moral card is driven out.



Russians opress Ukraine since 300 years including multiple genocides

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## MH.Yang

Apollon said:


> Russians opress Ukraine since 300 years including multiple genocides


If you want to turn over hundreds of years of old accounts, many countries will have trouble. For example, the aborigines of Australia and the Indians of the USA.

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## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> Why not? In recent years, the Chinese government has just ended the riots in Hong Kong and eliminated the separatist forces. Zero death. Ukraine should learn from China, or it should be hanged like Gaddafi and others.
> Isn't the reason why Gaddafi was killed by the West because he killed the soldiers of the Benghazi separatist organization?
> How many people died when the American people occupied Wall Street in 2011? Should we put Obama on the gallows?


You compare the HK separatists to Russia supported separatists? You are funny. Do HKs have tanks, artillery, drones and everything like an army? I find difficulty to follow your logics from Obama to Gaddafi… where is Chavez? I can understand most Chinese support Putin but you should try to invent better stories.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541799950052376576
Russian losses now confirmed over 4,400

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

Prolong the war to kill as many Ukrainians as possible. New disinformation operation. It was indeed an ammunition factory that was bombed. The fire spread to a nearby disused shopping center.
#Propaganda

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541784140932063233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541769714992570368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541551196611248138

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541801409770934274

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541700492715335680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541702582430797824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541763839687118848

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541765503353589760

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541764359373848582

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541760504196173827

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541741327783690240

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541722453491294208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541638615859593216

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## K_Bin_W

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541638615859593216


Hehe - He can join hands with Pak imported PM SS... LOL....

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Viet

The SC said:


> Yes indeed stupidity has limits.. because your comment does not make sense..they were/are killing people just because they speak Russian..this is beyond politics..


Ukraine, Russia languages are almost the same. Putin himself says both share the same spiritual space. not the reason for killing.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541752280625557504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541752544623374336

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541756487818551296

The production of 150+km ER-GMLRS rockets for HIMARS and M270 begin next year


----------



## RoadAmerica

Blueindian said:


> I
> China , india can supply wheat to poor nations if they need it .
> Time has gone when west used to divert grain ships and cause millions of deaths


Ha you think China and India will donate wheat 🤣


----------



## mulj

Apollon said:


> Russians opress Ukraine since 300 years including multiple genocides


I agree, no pain no gain.


----------



## RoadAmerica

northeast said:


> That is your pathetic excuse,not mine. In your western propaganda machine, russian are being discribed as evil barbarian that kill every ukrainian they encountered,right? But without your sugarcoating propaganda machine,you are no less barbaric. Not only in vietnam war.in iraq war,korean war and other countless war that USA have launched,the west bombarded and killed civillians like they were a crowd of chickens.
> 
> 
> Yeah? A vietnamese keeps blaming how barbaric russian is and have never blamed USA for killing nearly a million vietnameses and using chemical weapons in war for even once seems normal to you? If that is not brainwashed then what is?


Dude get over history


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541816592123699204

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541815458759843840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541811301734825987

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541811413999575040

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## _Nabil_

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/live-updates--germanys-scholz-west-wont-torpedo-g20/2022/06/27/404f9030-f5ee-11ec-81db-ac07a394a86b_story.html


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541806008208605186

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541804912614510592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541804710503612416

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541798589910884353

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## Lehrasap

MH.Yang said:


> Come on, we have basic IQ. The East Ukrainian militia must have the support of local people. Don't repeat such lies.



I have two questions for you: 

(1) Please tell us what rights did Ukraine not give to the Russian population of Ukraine, but Putin gave to the local population of Chechnya or _Yakutia.?_
Do these Russian states have the rights of having their local language as the First language in their schools and universities?

(2) Do China thinks it has the support of Locals in Hong Kong and Taiwan etc. (or even of Ughur Muslims)?


----------



## The SC

_Nabil_ said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/live-updates--germanys-scholz-west-wont-torpedo-g20/2022/06/27/404f9030-f5ee-11ec-81db-ac07a394a86b_story.html




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541816505595318273


----------



## _Nabil_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541558243494952961

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541797285876695040

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541794966552412160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541788877366726657

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541787979005534214

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541788636324237314

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## A.P. Richelieu

MH.Yang said:


> Come on, we have basic IQ. The East Ukrainian militia must have the support of local people. Don't repeat such lies.


The East Ukrainans generally were more positive towards Russia.
A large part of the population of Donbass fled the area even before Feb 24, 2022.
Those that fled to Western Ukraine were unlikely to support Russia.
The question is if there would be an ”insurgency” if not the Russians had started it and sent their army to fight it.
It has been proven that Russia took active support, amongst others where Russia sentnin a BUK launcher that shot down an airliner,


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541845892369715213


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Clutch said:


> You can spin any war of aggression in such ways. Just depends how long your "cease-fire" is... Decades.... Centuries???


A war ends with a peace treaty.
Without a peace treaty the war continues.
Israel and Syria has been at war for almost 75 years.

In the case of the US and Iraq. there were multiple violations of the cease-fire over the years. That was one of the reasons for terminating the cease-fire.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541796256158449664
Study: The sudden stop of Russian gas could lead to the loss of 5.6 million jobs in Germany

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541746363444117504

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541786728159117315

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541782590205607937

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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541847096533327874

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## Get Ya Wig Split

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541853429714255880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541854488373370880





Rolling 32 Deep #WeAreNATO​

Reactions: Like Like:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541839393501184000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541781129895841797

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541781002980319235

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541780840904007680

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## jhungary

NATO: Turkey agrees to back Finland and Sweden's bid to join alliance


The foreign ministers of Turkey, Sweden and Finland have signed a memorandum for the two Nordic states to join NATO, removing a Turkish block to the accession process. It comes after the leaders of the three nations spoke at a NATO summit in Madrid.




uk.news.yahoo.com





The foreign ministers of Turkey, Sweden and Finland have signed a memorandum for the two Nordic states to join NATO, removing a Turkish block to the accession process.

"It's a three-way agreement on accession," a NATO source said. Jens Stoltenberg, the secretary general, is due to speak to reporters imminently.

The Nordic states' attempt to join the alliance hit a stumbling block when Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan *said they supported Kurdish militants*.


Discussions have been happening at the *NATO* summit in Madrid.

The traditionally neutral nations decided to apply for NATO membership following Russian President Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

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## _Nabil_

Macron Overheard Breaking Some Bad News to Biden on G7 Sidelines | National Review


Macron revealed that OPEC’s top oil exporters have hit their production maximum.




www.nationalreview.com






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541725378057834496

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541779222536114177

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541778678719332354

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541776643097870339

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541710583577427968

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> NATO: Turkey agrees to back Finland and Sweden's bid to join alliance
> 
> 
> The foreign ministers of Turkey, Sweden and Finland have signed a memorandum for the two Nordic states to join NATO, removing a Turkish block to the accession process. It comes after the leaders of the three nations spoke at a NATO summit in Madrid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uk.news.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The foreign ministers of Turkey, Sweden and Finland have signed a memorandum for the two Nordic states to join NATO, removing a Turkish block to the accession process.
> 
> "It's a three-way agreement on accession," a NATO source said. Jens Stoltenberg, the secretary general, is due to speak to reporters imminently.
> 
> The Nordic states' attempt to join the alliance hit a stumbling block when Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan *said they supported Kurdish militants*.
> 
> 
> Discussions have been happening at the *NATO* summit in Madrid.
> 
> The traditionally neutral nations decided to apply for NATO membership following Russian President Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine.


That’s the best news of the day, no, the best news of the month. Erdogan is a Basar trader, for his Ok he most likely gets big gifts from the US and other European partners in forms of weapons delivery. Also, a great defeat for Putin. His constant nuclear blackmailing is not working. His iq is decreasing.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541776122127564803

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541774961261645825

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541771638399799306

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541770583314137097

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## aziqbal

Russia sees the Baltic states as slaves of the West 

and if they were not part of NATO I think Putin would have nuked them by now 

I personally think this war is going to expand


----------



## Nuclear Clown

mulj said:


> russia simply terminated cease fire in the war started by ukraina 2014. with advocating like this no wonder why russians gain more affection each day passing.


Actually, it's Russia that invaded Ukraine in 2014, as well they previously invaded Chechnya, Georgia (Abkhazia then South Ossetia regions) and Moldova (Transnistria region)... Maybe is it time to allow countries that neighbour ruSSia to become nuclear powers, you know, a 800km range ASMPA-R is stealth, flies Mach3 and has a 300 kilotons neutron-bomb, the gigantic amount of radioactivity induced is as lethal as if you dropped a 3 megatons classic thermonuclear... And... It only costs €18 millions!!!





The clown at the Kremlin likes nuclear blackmail... I'd be curious how he'd feel about a nuclear version of the Mexican standoff!




Russians get so much affection that their European neighbours that didn't joined NATO are all willing to do so, but Belarus which is a puppet state. Even China and CSTO minus Belarus refuse to back the invasion of Ukraine: You can see Russia's friends at UNGA votes in red:











northeast said:


> No,Crimeans voted to be united with russia,your western propaganda machine is shameless.


"Referendums" under military occupation are null and void under international law for obvious reasons : it has always been rigged... Poor attempt from you to justify an ILLEGAL INVASION


MH.Yang said:


> I'm not really trying to defend Gaddafi. Gaddafi supports Taiwan, and the Chinese also want Gaddafi to die, so we do not use the veto.


Well, seems that Gaddafi wasn't wrong all the time!


MH.Yang said:


> I just want to tell you that the Ukrainian government is really a Nazi. Their massacre of East Ukrainians is no different from that of Gaddafi.


You won't find a single naZi that is not into antisemitism: for naZis, black people are monkeys, brown-skinned people are half way between humans and monkeys and the worst race of all are Jews... Neo-naZis 100% back the Palestinians against Israel: 




And Palestinians are openly naZi sympathetic:




*The sole fact that far-right political parties score less than 2% in Ukraine and that 73% of Ukrainians have voted for a Jewish president makes the Russian narrative that Ukraine is naZi the LAUGHING STOCK of the planet, and those parroting this bullshit seen as serious idiots !!! *Now for sure, you can find extremists everywhere, and ruZZian propaganda has floaded world's media with pictures of the same 18-20 idiots of a single neo-naZi platoon in the Azov battalion for 8 years, clearly applying the basics of Lenin/Goebbels propaganda principle that if you repeat a lie 1000 times, in people's mind, it becomes the truth... It ain't !!!

The so called massacre of east-Ukrainian is another propaganda stunt and another Goebbelsian big lie: 




It's true that Russian propaganda hasn't lost the "quality" of the Soviet one: they even managed to keep the whole planet believing that Russian army was the 2nd most powerful in the world after Chinese PLA, but Ukraine called the bluff, showing the truth to the world : Russian army is💩

BTW, you don't need to be a naZi to do mass murders, war crimes, crimes against humanity, genocides, massacres, engineered famines, etc... In fact, when it comes to such actions, communist leaders like Mao Zedong, Josef Stalin or Pol Pot went further... According to Deng Ziao Ping himself, Mao Zedong caused the death of more than 100 millions Chinese people, thus, Mao Zedong is the #1 mass murderer of all times. Stalin killed more Soviets than Hitler, when it comes to Pol Pot, he murdered the third of Cambodia's population... But since another third had already fled the Khmer Rouge, he murdered half of the Cambodians left in the country... And the Khmer Rouge was backed by Communist China...

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## A.P. Richelieu

jhungary said:


> NATO: Turkey agrees to back Finland and Sweden's bid to join alliance
> 
> 
> The foreign ministers of Turkey, Sweden and Finland have signed a memorandum for the two Nordic states to join NATO, removing a Turkish block to the accession process. It comes after the leaders of the three nations spoke at a NATO summit in Madrid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uk.news.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The foreign ministers of Turkey, Sweden and Finland have signed a memorandum for the two Nordic states to join NATO, removing a Turkish block to the accession process.
> 
> "It's a three-way agreement on accession," a NATO source said. Jens Stoltenberg, the secretary general, is due to speak to reporters imminently.
> 
> The Nordic states' attempt to join the alliance hit a stumbling block when Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan *said they supported Kurdish militants*.
> 
> 
> Discussions have been happening at the *NATO* summit in Madrid.
> 
> The traditionally neutral nations decided to apply for NATO membership following Russian President Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine.


Hopefully none of the others get cold feet.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541440298647158787

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> That’s the best news of the day, no, the best news of the month. Erdogan is a Basar trader, for his Ok he most likely gets big gifts from the US and other European partners in forms of weapons delivery. Also, a great defeat for Putin. His constant nuclear blackmailing is not working. His iq is decreasing.


A lot of rumor on this one. 

What I hear is Sweden (not sure about Finland) will adjust their policy to satisfy Turkey, that is whatever that mean. 

Another thing I heard is UK and US okay for some Fighter Tech for Turkey.

Not confirm at this point, this is just rumor.



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Hopefully none of the others get cold feet.


Most likely no, turkey probably the only set back on both NATO membership, the other country probably have other issue, but I will still watch closely on Hungary and Bulgaria, they may flip


----------



## kingQamaR

Russia has invaded more than 25 countries after WW2, occupied them, during which it murdered, r a p e d, t or tured, imprisoned and made people disappear without due process Russia has ki lled more Russians than all countries on earth combined Russia demands independence for Do nbas, yet when Ch e chnya asked for the same, Russia mu-rdered 250k of these innocent people One vile country

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## jhungary

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541440298647158787


7.5 billions is no way near what we pay in Afghanistan..........We pay upward to 20 bil every month.

If 7.5 billions is all we need to f with Russia, that's probably the best 7.5 billions we ever spend.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Raffie said:


> Do you consider the denazification of Hamas, Hezbollah, SSNP, Fattah, Palestinian Authority, Gaza, Hebron and Beit Ummar?
> 
> View attachment 857467
> 
> View attachment 857468
> 
> Do you think Israel+Egypt should call Putin's artillery for help???
> 
> Or do you have double standards?
> Oh, BTW, Hamas is the Israeli branch of the _*Muslim Brotherhood*_. M.B. is banned as a terrorist organisation by Egypt, UAE, Saudi-Arabia, Bahrain,Syria, Russia, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, CSTO, Libya-Tobruk...



I believe in the existence of the indigenous Palestinian state and the removal of the illegal, unjust, and settler state of IsraHell, and the expulsion of the European settlers and others they brought all over the world for their bogus belief that anything between Euphrates and Nile belongs to them. 

Palestine belongs to us and the promised day will come that the final khilafah will be restored in Jerusalem.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541768218699829254

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541768360958038019

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541726595139919872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541765945483579398

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wergeland

The situation is not looking good for ukrainian troops. I dont know what strategy Biden has up his arms, but short of setting boots on the ground, Russia will continue to grind out victories.

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## MeFishToo

jhungary said:


> A lot of rumor on this one.
> 
> What I hear is Sweden (not sure about Finland) will adjust their policy to satisfy Turkey, that is whatever that mean.
> 
> Another thing I heard is UK and US okay for some Fighter Tech for Turkey.
> 
> Not confirm at this point, this is just rumor.
> 
> 
> Most likely no, turkey probably the only set back on both NATO membership, the other country probably have other issue, but I will still watch closely on Hungary and Bulgaria, they may flip


I think the interpretation of this agreement is going to be one in Sweden and another in Turkey. Apparently there is aggrement upon extradition between the countries, but Sweden is still going to follow swedish law.


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> A lot of rumor on this one.
> 
> What I hear is Sweden (not sure about Finland) will adjust their policy to satisfy Turkey, that is whatever that mean.
> 
> Another thing I heard is UK and US okay for some Fighter Tech for Turkey.
> 
> Not confirm at this point, this is just rumor.
> 
> 
> Most likely no, turkey probably the only set back on both NATO membership, the other country probably have other issue, but I will still watch closely on Hungary and Bulgaria, they may flip


Yes that’s confirmed. Erdogan says yes.
Sweden, Finland, Turkey have signed a memorandum that they will support each other if any country security is threatened. A mini defense pact.
It can mean Sweden will begin with weapons delivery to Turkey if requested by Erdogan.






Das gemeinsame Statement der Türkei, Schwedens, Finnlands und der Nato in Madrid
Quelle: REUTERS


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541724857100079105

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541724982585294850

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541677257806254083

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541695135213404160

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## Viet

Wergeland said:


> The situation is not looking good for ukrainian troops. I dont know what strategy Biden has up his arms, but short of setting boots on the ground, Russia will continue to grind out victories.


That means little. As long as Kiew is not taken this war will continue for years if not a century. Those cities and territories the Russians occupy may be long or short lived. In any case the occupation will inflict huge costs in terms of money and lives to Russia.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I believe in the existence of the indigenous Palestinian state and the removal of the illegal, unjust, and settler state of IsraHell, and the expulsion of the European settlers and others they brought all over the world for their bogus belief that anything between Euphrates and Nile belongs to them.
> 
> Palestine belongs to us and the promised day will come that the final khilafah will be restored in Jerusalem.


Do you believe in the expulsion of Somali settlers from Europe? That seems fair with such a mindset. How many Europeans would appreciate a swap?

The next question is of course how many Jews should return to Somalia?

Have you considered that Israel may be Allahs punishment of the unworthy that gets to stew in their hate for the rest of their miserly lives?
You may scheme, but Allah is the greater schemer.

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> I believe in the existence of the indigenous Palestinian state and the removal of the illegal, unjust, and settler state of IsraHell, and the expulsion of the European settlers and others they brought all over the world for their bogus belief that anything between Euphrates and Nile belongs to them.
> 
> Palestine belongs to us and the promised day will come that the final khilafah will be restored in Jerusalem.


The zionists should just change their religion to salafi islam and they could get away with genocide on palestinians without you batting an eye. 

Turkish genocide pontic greeks
Turkish genocide armenians
Pakistan genocide bangladesh
Syrian massacre in hama
Expulsion palestines from kuwait
Annexation western sahara by morocco
Refusing state on kurds
Annexation palestinian land by egypt/jordan

A short list of often much larger mistreatments, on larger populations or more annexed land.

The EU is one of the biggest donors for palestinian humanitarian aid but i am really starting to doubt why we even bother when all we get in return is pure religious fascism.

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## MeFishToo

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Do you believe in the expulsion of Somali settlers from Europe? That seems fair with such a mindset. How many Europeans would appreciate a swap?
> 
> The next question is of course how many Jews should return to Somalia?
> 
> Have you considered that Israel may be Allahs punishment of the unworthy that gets to stew in their hate for the rest of their miserly lives?
> You may scheme, but Allah is the greater schemer.


Its strange he doesnt want the arabs to leave north africa.

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## Nuclear Clown

aziqbal said:


> Russia sees the Baltic states as slaves of the West











Russia perfectly knows that countries that enter NATO or the EU are no slaves and do this by free will, and are free to leave whenever they want. 
What bothers Russia is that these countries will stop being Russia's slaves! THIS is the point


aziqbal said:


> and if they were not part of NATO I think Putin would have nuked them by now


I don't think there would be any need to nuke Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania: if they merged their air-forces, they'd have 4 or 5 L-39 Albatros trainers as only jets. The 3 countries cumulated militaries are less powerful than Austria or Brunei! But thanks to NATO, they can treat ruSSia on equal grounds instead of bending over to the bully! Since EU started the Baltic air-policing program, later joined by NATO, the days where Russian air force violated the 3 Baltic states airspace about 30x a day are over! They get intercepted instead






aziqbal said:


> I personally think this war is going to expand


And probably not the way you think!!! The most probable is Moldova kicking Russia out of Transnistria, Georgia kicking Russia out of Abkhazia and South-Ossetia, Lukashenko kicked out by Belarus people and Kazakhstan requesting US bases:
With half of the Russian army (54 BTGs) in Luhansk/Donetsk, all concentrated into CAESAR/HiMARS range, it's a situation similar to the 1943 Kursk battle, but Ukraine holds the salient...
Once the 54 BTGs "reduced", Ukraine will be able to launch a counter offensive. Moldova+Georgia can take profit from this to get their occupied lands back, and if Lukashenko gets dragged into the conflict, his army won't be able to oppress the population and they'll kick him out!

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## kingQamaR

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Do you believe in the expulsion of Somali settlers from Europe? That seems fair with such a mindset. How many Europeans would appreciate a swap?
> 
> The next question is of course how many Jews should return to Somalia?
> 
> Have you considered that Israel may be Allahs punishment of the unworthy that gets to stew in their hate for the rest of their miserly lives?
> You may scheme, but Allah is the greater schemer.



The same reason so many people (including me) supported an end to apartheid in South Africa (even as their governments kept the support of repression). P{eopel ally for human righst and justice. Defending lies and racism is not logical anyway

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## Ali_Baba

Viet said:


> Yes that’s confirmed. Erdogan says yes.
> Sweden, Finland, Turkey have signed a memorandum that they will support each other if any country security is threatened. A mini defense pact.
> It can mean Sweden will begin with weapons delivery to Turkey if requested by Erdogan.
> 
> 
> View attachment 857620
> 
> Das gemeinsame Statement der Türkei, Schwedens, Finnlands und der Nato in Madrid
> Quelle: REUTERS



Congrats to Turkey, Sweden, Finland to come to some agreement over a complex issue - and hopefully Turkey got its pound of flesh aswell and congrats to Sweden and Finland on successfully joining NATO(ratification to come later on in the year).



A.P. Richelieu said:


> Hopefully none of the others get cold feet.



Hungary is the other possible spoiler country - lets see. Reckon Hungary will get squeezed until they pop and say yes..

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## Primus

ZeGerman said:


> The zionists should just change their religion to salafi islam and they could get away with genocide on palestinians without you batting an eye.
> 
> Turkish genocide pontic greeks
> Turkish genocide armenians
> Pakistan genocide bangladesh
> Syrian massacre in hama
> Expulsion palestines from kuwait
> Annexation western sahara by morocco
> Refusing state on kurds
> Annexation palestinian land by egypt/jordan
> 
> A short list of often much larger mistreatments, on larger populations or more annexed land.
> 
> The EU is one of the biggest donors for palestinian humanitarian aid but i am really starting to doubt why we even bother when all we get in return is pure religious fascism.


This is coming from the German lmao

Pakistan did not conduct any genocide against the Bangladeshis. 

First and formost, they were 34 000 soldiers stationed in East Pakistan fighting a guerilla war against the MB and fighting a conventional war against India. They were heavily outnumbered and outgunned, but according to you, they were each able to kill 88 civillians each. Brilliant logic 10/10

Mujibur Rehman's own advisor spoke against this genocide. Calling it a myth. He said Mujibur Rehman was furious when they couldnt even come up with 3 score thousand dead, when he claimed 3 million dead. 

On top of that, the govt offered to pay 2000 taka to any family that suffered any loss of life during the war, but to everyones surprise only 3000 families came forward and took the offer.

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## Elvin

Raffie said:


> View attachment 857611
> View attachment 857612
> 
> Russia perfectly knows that countries that enter NATO or the EU are no slaves and do this by free will, and are free to leave whenever they want.
> What bothers Russia is that these countries will stop being Russia's slaves! THIS is the point
> 
> I don't think there would be any need to nuke Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania: if they merged their air-forces, they'd have 4 or 5 L-39 Albatros trainers as only jets. The 3 countries cumulated militaries are less powerful than Austria or Brunei! But thanks to NATO, they can treat ruSSia on equal grounds instead of bending over to the bully! Since EU started the Baltic air-policing program, later joined by NATO, the days where Russian air force violated the 3 Baltic states airspace about 30x a day are over! They get intercepted instead
> View attachment 857627
> 
> 
> And probably not the way you think!!! The most probable is Moldova kicking Russia out of Transnistria, Georgia kicking Russia out of Abkhazia and South-Ossetia, Lukashenko kicked out by Belarus people and Kazakhstan requesting US bases:
> With half of the Russian army (54 BTGs) in Luhansk/Donetsk, all concentrated into CAESAR/HiMARS range, it's a situation similar to the 1943 Kursk battle, but Ukraine holds the salient...
> Once the 54 BTGs "reduced", Ukraine will be able to launch a counter offensive. Moldova+Georgia can take profit from this to get their occupied lands back, and if Lukashenko gets dragged into the conflict, his army won't be able to oppress the population and they'll kick him out!



PRECISELY!!! Never once in Russian history did people live well and comfortable for an extended period of time nor has anyone willingly joined Russia.


----------



## dBSPL

*Ukraine received 50 Turkish Bayraktar TB2 drones since Russian invasion*

Ukrainian defence minister says Kyiv is looking to buy more from Turkey and an entire production plant may work to complete the order









Ukraine received 50 Turkish Bayraktar TB2 drones since Russian invasion


Ukrainian defence minister says Kyiv is looking to buy more from Turkey and an entire production plant may work to complete the order




www.middleeasteye.net

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## The SC

Ukraine. Military Summary And Analysis 28.06.2022​


----------



## Soldier35

The moment and result of the missile strike on the hangars in Kremenchug in Ukraine. Russian troops attacked the area of the Kremenchug plant of road machines "Kredmash" in the hangars of which, according to the Russian Ministry of Defense, foreign ammunition was stored. As a result of the missile strike, the blast wave from the detonation of ammunition damaged the Amstor shopping center located nearby, as a result of which a fire started there. Ukrainian media reported that the strike of Russian missiles was aimed at the Amstor shopping center in Kremenchug. But on the frames that you see, a crater from a rocket impact is clearly visible and it is located on the territory of the hangars of the Kremenchug plant of road machines "Kredmash".






The Russian Defense Ministry showed footage of the combat duty of the crew of the Nebo-SV radar and the combat work of the Buk-M3 air defense system. The calculation of the 1L13 "Sky-SV" radar station searches and detects targets and determines their nationality by sending a "Friend or Foe" request. Based on the results of the target's response, the radar crew makes a decision to destroy the target and transmits the data to the crew of the Buk-M3 air defense system. The detection range of fighter-type targets at high altitudes reaches 380 km, at low altitudes up to 65 km. The Russian radar "Nebo-SV" was put into service in 1986.






New weapons of Ukraine, mobile MLRS and machine guns. Recently, Aleksey Arestovich, adviser to the head of the Office of the President of Ukraine, said that a turning point would soon come at the front, but no one understood what he meant. Perhaps it was meant that new types of weapons would appear in the Ukrainian army, if I may say so about them. We have already talked about the homemade Ukrainian MLRS. Now the new MLRS installations have become more perfect, S-8 rockets are launched not from a trailer, as before, but from the body of a Mitsubishi L200 pickup truck. In addition, an installation with a large-caliber machine gun in a trailer is currently being tested, most likely this is the first prototype, apparently, it is still far from being put into production.

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## _Nabil_

ZeGerman said:


> The zionists should just change their religion to salafi islam and they could get away with genocide on palestinians without you batting an eye.
> 
> Turkish genocide pontic greeks
> Turkish genocide armenians
> Pakistan genocide bangladesh
> Syrian massacre in hama
> Expulsion palestines from kuwait
> Annexation western sahara by morocco
> Refusing state on kurds
> Annexation palestinian land by egypt/jordan
> 
> A short list of often much larger mistreatments, on larger populations or more annexed land.FFXX
> 
> The EU is one of the biggest donors for palestinian humanitarian aid but i am really starting to doubt why we even bother when all we get in return is pure religious fascism.


Hehe 🤣Show us your true colours Zio-Nazi friend 👌

You can give Palestinians their land back and keep your so called humanitarian aid and put it in your ærse.

You occupy, kill, steal , deculturise, put puppet regimes, make countries goes bankrupt, racket via IMF and WB then Brag about "humanitarian aid" .

Wtf is this insanity????!!!!

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Turkey gives in​
Turkey removes objection to Finland and Sweden joining NATO​


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## NotSure

Soldier35 said:


> The moment and result of the missile strike on the hangars in Kremenchug in Ukraine. Russian troops attacked the area of the Kremenchug plant of road machines "Kredmash" in the hangars of which, according to the Russian Ministry of Defense, foreign ammunition was stored. As a result of the missile strike, the blast wave from the detonation of ammunition damaged the Amstor shopping center located nearby, as a result of which a fire started there. Ukrainian media reported that the strike of Russian missiles was aimed at the Amstor shopping center in Kremenchug. But on the frames that you see, a crater from a rocket impact is clearly visible and it is located on the territory of the hangars of the Kremenchug plant of road machines "Kredmash".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Russian Defense Ministry showed footage of the combat duty of the crew of the Nebo-SV radar and the combat work of the Buk-M3 air defense system. The calculation of the 1L13 "Sky-SV" radar station searches and detects targets and determines their nationality by sending a "Friend or Foe" request. Based on the results of the target's response, the radar crew makes a decision to destroy the target and transmits the data to the crew of the Buk-M3 air defense system. The detection range of fighter-type targets at high altitudes reaches 380 km, at low altitudes up to 65 km. The Russian radar "Nebo-SV" was put into service in 1986.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New weapons of Ukraine, mobile MLRS and machine guns. Recently, Aleksey Arestovich, adviser to the head of the Office of the President of Ukraine, said that a turning point would soon come at the front, but no one understood what he meant. Perhaps it was meant that new types of weapons would appear in the Ukrainian army, if I may say so about them. We have already talked about the homemade Ukrainian MLRS. Now the new MLRS installations have become more perfect, S-8 rockets are launched not from a trailer, as before, but from the body of a Mitsubishi L200 pickup truck. In addition, an installation with a large-caliber machine gun in a trailer is currently being tested, most likely this is the first prototype, apparently, it is still far from being put into production.


Look at this pic, there is no epicenter from a hit *at all*. And sure not after a >M4 missile with a 1 ton warhead. It was a simple fire from the debris.

And how was this possible? Because this regime again gave not a single f*ck and stored, repaired weapons in the direct vicinity to civilian infrastructure. The first time? No, they do it the whole time. Remember the Retroville mall in kiev? They stored ammo for Grads, Pions etc. there. And why not? Ukrainians are simply cannon fodder for this Nato regime, if civs die, they can use it for propaganda purposes.



https://i.redd.it/nfh1hwroke891.jpg

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## khansaheeb

Huffal said:


> This is coming from the German lmao
> 
> Pakistan did not conduct any genocide against the Bangladeshis.
> 
> First and formost, they were 34 000 soldiers stationed in East Pakistan fighting a guerilla war against the MB and fighting a conventional war against India. They were heavily outnumbered and outgunned, but according to you, they were each able to kill 88 civillians each. Brilliant logic 10/10
> 
> Mujibur Rehman's own advisor spoke against this genocide. Calling it a myth. He said Mujibur Rehman was furious when they couldnt even come up with 3 score thousand dead, when he claimed 3 million dead.
> 
> On top of that, the govt offered to pay 2000 taka to any family that suffered any loss of life during the war, but to everyones surprise only 3000 families came forward and took the offer.


Not only Kill 88 civilians but rape another 100 each according to Indian propaganda.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541383725061210117

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541381688646705152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541371094829076480


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## khansaheeb

Ukraine says Russia suffering 'huge casualties' in Sievierodonetsk — as it happened | DW | 04.06.2022


The local governor says Ukraine has "pushed back" Russian forces in the fight for the key Donbas city. Meanwhile, a top official has speculated that the war might last several more months.




www.dw.com





Ukraine says Russia suffering 'huge casualties' in Sievierodonetsk — as it happened​The local governor says Ukraine has "pushed back" Russian forces in the fight for the key Donbas city. Meanwhile, a top official has speculated that the war might last several more months.






Ukrainian troops are still fighting Russian soldiers in the rebel-dominated Donbas

Russia deploying reinforcements to Sievierodonetsk
Germany not a suitable mediator in Ukraine conflict, says SPD lawmaker
Zelenskyy's adviser says Russian troops changed their tactics after massive losses
UK says Russia is launching unguided airstrikes in Donbas
_This live updates article is now closed. For the latest on Russia's invasion, please click here. _
Lavrov says Western sanctions will boost Russian energy profits​Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov on Saturday told a Bosnian-Serb television broadcaster that Western sanctions would actually benefit Russia by driving up energy prices.
"Considering the price level that has been established as a result of the West's policies, we have suffered no budgetary losses," he said, adding, "On the contrary, this year we will significantly increase the profits from the export of our energy resources."
In reaction to a European Union agreement that will see roughly 90% of Russian oil imports to the bloc banned by the end of the year, the Moscow hardliner said, "Oil, generally speaking, is not subject to politics, there is a demand for it ... we have alternative sales markets, where we are already increasing sales." 











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Watch video02:18
EU agrees partial ban on Russian oil​DW reporter on Ukraine's claims of regaining control of parts of Sievierodonetsk​DW's Jan-Philipp Scholz, reporting from Kyiv, says, "it is simply impossible to verify if Ukraine has really regained half of the territory in Sievierodonetsk." Kyiv on Saturday claimed that a successful counter-offensive had helped it recapture much of the fiercely contested city in the Donbas region. 
Scholz said, however, that Ukrainian forces had indeed achieved a "remarkable" feat by managing to push back Russian troops who initially looked to have entirely taken control of the city, calling it, "an important partial success for the Ukrainians."
Speaking of reports that thousands of Russian troops were amassing for an assault on the nearby city of Sloviansk, DW's Scholz said Kyiv is very concerned as the city is "an important transportation hub." He also noted that it is, "one of the last areas of the Donbas region that is still beyond Russian control."
He said several hundred people had already been evacuated but that local officials were now urging those citizens who still remained to leave before Russian forces approach.
Asked about when heavy weapons promised by Western countries might arrive in the Donbas, DW's Scholz said it could still take weeks, meaning they may not be of any use in the current fight by the time they arrive. Though he did add that fighters say they preparing "for a long war of attrition, so the weapons could make a difference in possible upcoming counter-offensives."
Russia and Ukraine exchange bodies of hundreds of dead soldiers​Kyiv on Saturday announced that Ukraine and Russia exchanged the bodies of 320 soldiers — 160 each — on June 2. The exchange took place at the front in the southeastern Ukrainian region of Zaporizhzhya.
Ukraine has repeatedly called on Moscow to take possession of the bodies of its fallen soldiers and to give them a dignified burial. 
Kyiv accuses the Kremlin of using its young as "cannon fodder" to be simply left to rot on the battlefield after they are killed. 
Authorities in Kyiv say representatives from its intelligence services and armed forces leadership were on hand for the exchange. 
Ukraine says Russian artillery has destroyed sacred Orthodox church​"Russian artillery struck the Svyatohirsk Lavra in the Donetsk region again today. Destroyed All Saints Monastery. It was consecrated in 1912. It was first destroyed during the Soviet era. Later it was rebuilt to be burned by the Russian army," wrote Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy on Telegram Saturday. 
He also posted a video of the church engulfed in flames.
The monastic settlement of Svyatohirsk Lavra dates back to 1627 and the wooden church is one of the country's most sacred Orthodox sites.
Zelenskyy noted that four monks had been previously killed at the site, which is located in the embattled Donbas region. He said 300 civilians, 60 of them children, had been sheltering there amid intense fighting.
The Ukrainian leader went on to call for "barbaric" Russia to be expelled from UNESCO, the United Nations (UN) cultural agency, saying, "Every church burned by Russia in Ukraine, every school blown up, every destroyed memorial proves that Russia has no place in UNESCO."
The Russian Defense Ministry denied involvement in the incident, instead deflecting blame to Ukrainian troops, whom it claims set the blaze themselves as they retreated from advancing Russian forces.
There are no military targets at the site according to Kyiv. It is managed by the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, which has said it will break with the Russian Orthodox Church over the February 24 Russian invasion and ensuing war, which Patriarch Kyrill of Moscow enthusiastically supports.
German interior minister announces hardening of cyber-defenses against Russia​Interior Minister Nancy Faeser, speaking in the Saturday edition of the mass-circulation newspaper _Bild_, announced that Germany is hardening its cyber-defense capabilities against Russian intrusion, saying that Moscow presents a real threat.
Faeser said her ministry is defending "German domestic security and peace against Russia's attempts to spy and influence, against lies and against war propaganda." She went on to say: "We know exactly what intelligence means the Russian government uses. We are extremely vigilant and are protecting ourselves. And we are active."
The interior minister said that vigilance is what led Berlin to expel some 40 Russian Embassy employees in April, all of whom Faeser said, were working for Russian intelligence services.
German security experts warn that the threat of communications espionage is real and often underestimated, especially in Berlin's government district, where cellphones can be easily hacked. One must assume that foreign intelligence services are "making a considerable effort" to intercept sensitive information Faeser said.
Intelligence services, for instance, say Moscow has been using specially constructed broadband antennae on the roof of Russia's Berlin Embassy to eavesdrop on communications for years. 
US intelligence agencies to review early misreading of Russia's invasion of Ukraine​Intelligence agencies in Washington DC., are conducting reviews of their initial assessments of the situation in Ukraine before Russia invaded as well as in the early phase of the war.
The assessment comes at the urging of politicians from both sides of the aisle as doubt has grown over intelligence capability, especially after the US' disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan in 2021.
The agencies grossly misread the will of the Ukrainians — from President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, to the army and the civilian population — to stand and defend their homeland against an invader that US intelligence services misread in the other direction, namely assuming far greater capability and military superiority.
Despite the correct prediction of a Russian invasion, the Russian advance has a not unfolded as the US expected, leading some lawmakers to ask whether more should have been done to arm the Ukrainians before the invasion occurred.
"Had we had a better handle on the prediction, we could have done more to assist the Ukrainians earlier," said Senator Angus King, an Independent from Maine. 
Director of National Intelligence (DNI) Avril Haines, replying to a request from the Senate Intelligence Committee, said the National Intelligence Council (NIC) would conduct a review of agency assessments regarding a given nation's "will" and "capacity to fight," calling both metrics, "quite challenging," and noting, "we're looking at different methodologies for doing so."
The review is not subject to a specific timetable.
NATO chief talks Sweden, Finland membership with Erdogan​NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg has met with Finland's prime minister and spoken with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, in an effort to work past the roadblock Ankara has put up over Sweden and Finland joining the military alliance.
Stoltenberg said he had a "constructive phone call" with Erdogan and promised continued dialogue. 
Turkey, a member of NATO since 1952, opposes membership for the two countries and is using its veto power in the membership vote — a unanimous vote from all 30 members is required for a new member to be accepted — to force policy changes from the Nordic countries.
A spokesman for Turkey's president said Ankara feels no pressure to see the bids advanced by the time NATO leaders convene for a June 29-30 summit in Madrid, Spain.
Sweden and Finland, spurred by Russia's February 24 invasion of Ukraine, upended decades of non-alignment policy to seek admission to the military alliance.
Russian troops 'pushed back' in key eastern city​The governor of Luhansk province said Russia had retreated in the industrial city of Sievierodonetsk — now one of only two settlements in the province that aren't under Russian control.
"Right now, our soldiers have pushed them back, [the Russians] are suffering huge casualties," Serhiy Haidai said in a live TV broadcast on Saturday.
He added: "Russians are blowing up bridges, so we could not bring in reinforcements to our boys in Sievierodonetsk."
Ukrainian news website Dialog.ua also reported that Igor Girkin, a pro-Russian veteran who had been active in the war in Donbas since 2014, confirmed details of the retreat on his Telegram channel.





Tributes flow for fallen international fighters​Ukraine's official volunteer brigade, the International Legion of Defense, has paid tribute to four foreigners from Germany, France, the Netherlands and Australia who were killed in recent weeks.
"We lost our brothers in combat but their bravery, their memory and legacy will forever inspire us," it said in a statement on Saturday.
The deaths of the Frenchman and the Australian had been confirmed by their respective governments, while AFP reporters were present for the burial of the Dutch fighter in Kharkiv on May 21.
Earlier this week Russia claimed it had killed "hundreds" of foreign fighters on the Ukrainian side.
Macron warns against humiliating Russia​French President Emmanuel Macron has offered to mediate between Russia and Ukraine after Vladimir Putin "isolated himself" on the world stage.
"We must not humiliate Russia so that the day when the fighting stops we can build an exit ramp through diplomatic means," he said in an interview with regional newspapers that was published on Saturday.
France has supported Ukraine with money and weapons, but has also maintained a line of communication with the Russian president.
Macron added: "I think, and I told [Putin], that he is making a historic and fundamental mistake for his people, for himself and for history."
Ukrainian adviser says war has entered a new phase — could last 6 months​Russia's tactics have changed on the battlefield, according to Ukrainian presidential adviser Mykhailo Podoliak, adding that Russian losses had now decreased to around 100 to 200 casualties per day — a figure he said was "roughly comparable" with Ukrainian losses.
"In the first one-and-a-half to two months they fought with absolutely no understanding of what they were doing," he told Meduza, an independent Russian-language news outlet based in Riga, Latvia that is not subjected to strict Russian state censorship laws regardiing coverage of the war against Ukraine.
"They just moved their columns around the country, and our guys quickly and brutally destroyed them. This kind of war was simple enough."
"Unfortunately, it has ended," he said, adding that the fighting now was bogged down and the outcome is decided mostly by the numbers of soldiers and weapons.
He warned it was hard to judge when the war with Russia would end. At the same time, he indicated the fighting could last for another half a year.
"If you count by the stockpiled weapons, this could drag on for a period of two to six months," Podoliak said.
"But war is a non-linear process, influenced by dozens or even hundreds of factors," he added. "I wouldn't set specific deadlines." 











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Watch video03:25
Evacuations still underway ahead of expected Russian assault on Sloviansk: DW's Jan-Philipp Scholz reports​EU to recognize Ukrainian driver's licenses — report​The European Union is set introduce special regulations that will recognize Ukrainian driver's licenses, according to the German government.
Non-EU nationals in Germany can typically drive for six months using their existing driver's license, after which they must apply for a local certification.
"The EU Commission is planning a road transport agreement with Ukraine which, among other things, will provide for the temporary recognition of driving licences and certificates of competence for the transport of goods," the German government said in a response to a parliamentary question as seen by the DPA.
The move is aimed at helping Ukrainian refugees who fled to the EU after the Russian invasion. It will also help freight companies operating between Ukraine and the EU.
Russian unguided airstrikes cause 'widespread destruction' in Donbas​The UK Defence Ministry has accused Russia of launching unguided airstrikes over the Donbas region.
"The increased use of unguided munitions has led to the widespread destruction of built-up areas in the Donbas and has almost certainly caused substantial collateral damage and civilian casualties," the ministry said in a tweet on Saturday.

It added that Russia's stocks of precision guided missiles "are likely to have been significantly depleted" since the start of the war.
Russia reinforcing troops in Sievierodonetsk: Ukrainian military​Russia has brought in reinforcements to further its efforts to take control of the city of Sievierodonetsk in Ukraine's Donbas region and is carrying out "assault operations" with artillery in the city, Ukraine's military said on Saturday.
According to Reuters news agency, the Ukrainian military said Russian forces had, however, retreated after failing to advance in the nearby town of Bakhmut.
On Friday, the governor of Luhansk province, Serhiy Haidai, told national television that Ukrainian troops had recaptured 20% of the territory in the factory city previously lost to Russian advances. He said Russian troops had previously held some 70% of the city.
He added that it was unlikely the city would be taken by Russian troops in the next two weeks despite the reinforcements being deployed by Moscow.











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Watch video03:57
Battle for Sievierodonetsk just one of many ahead: Military analyst Frank Ledwidge​Haidai's claim of Ukrainian advances could not immediately be verified. 
Moscow is now focusing its military efforts on the eastern Donbas region after failing to take the capital, Kyiv, at the start of the at the start of the invasion which was launched on February 24.
Germany not a suitable mediator in Ukraine war — SPD official​The leader of the Social Democratic Party (SPD) parliamentary group, Rolf Mützenich, said he does not consider Germany to be a suitable mediator between Kyiv and Moscow.
He instead suggested that countries that avoided condemning Russia in the United Nations General Assembly take on the role of mediator.
"Germany will hardly be able to mediate in this conflict," Mützenich said. "Because from Russia's point of view, we took too clear a position from the start."
Summary of Friday's events in Ukraine-Russia crisis​In a video message from Kyiv marking 100 days since Russia invaded Ukraine, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy vowed, "Victory will be ours."











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Watch video26:05
The Day with Clare Richardson: 100 Days of War​Vadym Boichenko, the displaced mayor of the captured Ukrainian port city of Mariupol, accused Russia of holding the city's remaining 100,000 citizens hostage.
Ukrainian police opened criminal investigations into allegations of sexual violence against civilians, according to Deputy Interior Minister Kateryna Pavlichenko.
Protestant theologians and allied politicians drafted an open letter to leaders of the Protestant Church of Germany calling for the Russian Orthodox Church to be suspended from the World Council of Churches and for bilateral relations between the German and Russian Churches to be frozen.
The EU said that around 500 Ukrainian patients have so far been receiving urgent treatment by way of the EU Civil Protection Mechanism.
Ukraine's ambassador to Turkey said that Turkish buyers are purchasing grain that Russia stole.
The chair of the African Union (AU), Macky Sall, said in a meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin that Moscow should take into account the impact the war was having on the African continent.
You can revisit our live updates from June 3 here.
jsi, sdi/rt (AP, AFP, dpa, Reuters)


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## Primus

khansaheeb said:


> Not only Kill 88 civilians but rape another 100 each according to Indian propaganda.


Ah yes, i forgot about that. The so called Australian doctor that went to East Pakistan and made such an accusation against Pakistan, only to realise that doctor was racist against Pakistanis and was later found to be lying as the Red Cross later found out (maternity wards werent full of victims as the Aussie doctor said they were)

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541791903754366977

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541832007658967040

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## Paul2

Ukraine commences general fallback from Lysychansk

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## khansaheeb

Russia's misadventure is going to become painful and Germany is going to get it's revenge, Panzers on the role, lol. It took them 77 years to repackage the Germans and persuade them to attack Russia again. 









First heavy weapons from Germany arrive in Ukraine | DW | 21.06.2022


Ukraine on Tuesday said the first delivery of German howitzers and other heavy weapons had arrived. Meanwhile, the government in Berlin published a complete list of military aid sent or pledged to Kyiv.




www.dw.com




First heavy weapons from Germany arrive in Ukraine​Ukraine on Tuesday said the first delivery of German howitzers and other heavy weapons had arrived. Meanwhile, the government in Berlin published a complete list of military aid sent or pledged to Kyiv.






Several weeks after pledging heavy weapons, Germany's first delivery of self-propelled howitzers have arrived in Ukraine
The first delivery of heavy weapons promised by the German government had arrived in Ukraine, Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov said on Tuesday. 
The arrival comes after repeated appeals from Kyiv for better weapons and ammunition as it seeks to hold off Russia's military offensive in eastern Ukraine.
Panzerhaubitze 2000 'finally' part of Ukrainian arsenal​Self-propelled howitzers, the Panzerhaubitze 2000, are the first heavy weapons sent by Germany to arrive in Ukraine.
In May, Berlin pledged to send seven of the artillery systems, adding to five howitzers promised by the Netherlands. 
The Panzerhaubitze 2000 are some of the most powerful artillery weapons in the German military's stock. The howitzers can hit targets located up to 40 kilometers (25 miles) away.
Reznikov praised his German counterpart, Christine Lambrecht, and Dutch Defense Minister Kajsa Ollongren for the shipments.
"Panzerhaubitze 2000 are finally part of 155 mm howitzer arsenal of the Ukrainian artillery," Reznikov wrote on Twitter.
He called the delivery "an example of international cooperation in support of Ukraine."

What else has Germany sent?​As the self-propelled howitzers arrived in Ukraine, the German government published its first full list showing both the equipment it said it had already sent to Ukraine, and items it had pledged that were still being arranged. 
In addition to the recent delivery of seven howitzers, the German Defense Ministry said it had sent 14,900 anti-tank mines, 500 STINGER air-defense missiles and 2,700 anti-aircraft missiles.
In addition, Germany had supplied Ukraine with 16 million rounds of ammunition for handguns, as well as 100,000 hand grenades, to name only some of the most notable entries on the list.
Under nonlethal supplies, Germany has already provided materials including, but not limited to, 175 vehicles (including trucks, buses and off-road vehicles), 23,000 combat helmets, 10,000 sleeping bags, 1,200 hospital beds and 100 tents.
The government's list also included weapons and ammunition that the Germany has pledged to Ukraine, but are in the process of being delivered.
The list of weapons to be delivered included 30 Gepard (Cheetah) tanks and three MARS II multiple rocket launchers.
Weapons deliveries follow criticism​Russia's invasion of Ukraine at the end of February prompted urgent appeals for military aid.
German Chancellor Olaf Scholz's government has made a major turnaround with Berlin's historic opposition to sending lethal weapons to active conflict zones, but has been criticized for not doing so more quickly.
Berlin was initially hesitant to pledge heavy weapons deliveries, at first offering to send nonlethal supplies such as combat helmets.
Following the German government's policy reversal and pledge to support Ukraine with more modern weapons systems, Ukraine repeatedly complained about the amount of time it took for the weapons to arrive.
The German government defended the delays by saying it needed to ensure that Ukrainian troops received training on the new weapons systems, and that defense industry protocols needed to be radically changed to accommodate the deliveries. 
Ukraine's government has appealed to Western allies for more weapons to bolster its Soviet-era arsenal. Kyiv said it would need 1,000 howitzers, 500 tanks and 1,000 drones to help stave off Russian troops.
Scholz says arms delivery right decision​Scholz told members if his Social Democratic Party (SPD) that the decision to supply German weapons to Ukraine was the right decision.
"This is necessary now," Scholz said. "It was the right thing to decide now and in this situation."
He also told lawmakers that the German public supported the decision.
Scholz said that Russia must end the war and stressed Ukraine's right to exist.
"Everything we do is aimed at that," he said.
rs, si/msh (Reuters, dpa)


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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541818842653106176

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## Nuclear Clown

Clutch said:


> There is a big difference between whataboutism and hypocrisy.


Russian state practices both, together with a wide range of crimes you obviously condone.



MH.Yang said:


> If you want to turn over hundreds of years of old accounts, many countries will have trouble. For example, the aborigines of Australia and the Indians of the USA.


And the invasion/destruction of many nations by the genocidal Chinese Communist Party...

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## Hassan Al-Somal

MH.Yang said:


> Why not? In recent years, the Chinese government has just ended the riots in Hong Kong and eliminated the separatist forces. Zero death. Ukraine should learn from China, or it should be hanged like Gaddafi and others.
> Isn't the reason why Gaddafi was killed by the West because he killed the soldiers of the Benghazi separatist organization?
> How many people died when the American people occupied Wall Street in 2011? Should we put Obama on the gallows?




Qaddafi was killed because he switched his country's currency from paper money to gold and silver. He also proposed Africa to have a common currency. Many of the smaller African countries are still robbed by former European colonizers, so the West led by USA, UK, and France took him out before other African country could follow suit.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541857661129564161

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541857661129564161



The tide is turning in favor of NATO. Zelenski said that Russia will be fully defeated before winter.

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## S10

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> The tide is turning in favor of NATO. Zelenski said that Russia will be fully defeated before winter.



And I will marry Jeff Bezos' daughter and inherit his wealth by next month.

Source: Trust me bro.

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## Clutch

A.P. Richelieu said:


> A war ends with a peace treaty.
> Without a peace treaty the war continues.
> Israel and Syria has been at war for almost 75 years.
> 
> In the case of the US and Iraq. there were multiple violations of the cease-fire over the years. That was one of the reasons for terminating the cease-fire.



Post Kuwait liberation... America stated their goals were complete and going Baghdad was never their mission objectives. The 2003 invasion was never part of the 1991 Gulf War. I was there so I should know.

You will not be able to provide any formal reference to support your claim.



Raffie said:


> Russian state practices both, together with a wide range of crimes you obviously condone.



My comment wasn't about Ukraine in specific. You will have to re-read my related posts....

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

S10 said:


> And I will marry Jeff Bezos' daughter and inherit his wealth by next month.
> 
> Source: Trust me bro.



G-7 countires have agreed to placing price caps on Russian oil sold abroad. The plan is untested, but if it works, it could deal the final blow to Vladimir Putin's ability to finance the war in Ukraine. The changes at NATO could also be in terms of years, not months. NATO announcing plans to increase its rapid response forces from 40 thousand to 300 thousand, and that will include a sizeable increase in the number of US soldiers stationed along NATO's eastern flank...where the alliance and Russia meet head on. 

Will the G7 be able to bankrupt Russia?​

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## MH.Yang

Raffie said:


> Actually, it's Russia that invaded Ukraine in 2014, as well they previously invaded Chechnya, Georgia (Abkhazia then South Ossetia regions) and Moldova (Transnistria region)... Maybe is it time to allow countries that neighbour ruSSia to become nuclear powers, you know, a 800km range ASMPA-R is stealth, flies Mach3 and has a 300 kilotons neutron-bomb, the gigantic amount of radioactivity induced is as lethal as if you dropped a 3 megatons classic thermonuclear... And... It only costs €18 millions!!!
> View attachment 857486
> 
> The clown at the Kremlin likes nuclear blackmail... I'd be curious how he'd feel about a nuclear version of the Mexican standoff!
> View attachment 857499
> 
> Russians get so much affection that their European neighbours that didn't joined NATO are all willing to do so, but Belarus which is a puppet state. Even China and CSTO minus Belarus refuse to back the invasion of Ukraine: You can see Russia's friends at UNGA votes in red:
> View attachment 857605
> 
> View attachment 857606
> 
> 
> 
> "Referendums" under military occupation are null and void under international law for obvious reasons : it has always been rigged... Poor attempt from you to justify an ILLEGAL INVASION
> 
> Well, seems that Gaddafi wasn't wrong all the time!
> 
> You won't find a single naZi that is not into antisemitism: for naZis, black people are monkeys, brown-skinned people are half way between humans and monkeys and the worst race of all are Jews... Neo-naZis 100% back the Palestinians against Israel:
> View attachment 857602
> 
> And Palestinians are openly naZi sympathetic:
> View attachment 857603
> 
> *The sole fact that far-right political parties score less than 2% in Ukraine and that 73% of Ukrainians have voted for a Jewish president makes the Russian narrative that Ukraine is naZi the LAUGHING STOCK of the planet, and those parroting this bullshit seen as serious idiots !!! *Now for sure, you can find extremists everywhere, and ruZZian propaganda has floaded world's media with pictures of the same 18-20 idiots of a single neo-naZi platoon in the Azov battalion for 8 years, clearly applying the basics of Lenin/Goebbels propaganda principle that if you repeat a lie 1000 times, in people's mind, it becomes the truth... It ain't !!!
> 
> The so called massacre of east-Ukrainian is another propaganda stunt and another Goebbelsian big lie:
> View attachment 857604
> 
> It's true that Russian propaganda hasn't lost the "quality" of the Soviet one: they even managed to keep the whole planet believing that Russian army was the 2nd most powerful in the world after Chinese PLA, but Ukraine called the bluff, showing the truth to the world : Russian army is💩
> 
> BTW, you don't need to be a naZi to do mass murders, war crimes, crimes against humanity, genocides, massacres, engineered famines, etc... In fact, when it comes to such actions, communist leaders like Mao Zedong, Josef Stalin or Pol Pot went further... According to Deng Ziao Ping himself, Mao Zedong caused the death of more than 100 millions Chinese people, thus, Mao Zedong is the #1 mass murderer of all times. Stalin killed more Soviets than Hitler, when it comes to Pol Pot, he murdered the third of Cambodia's population... But since another third had already fled the Khmer Rouge, he murdered half of the Cambodians left in the country... And the Khmer Rouge was backed by Communist China...


Who told you that Jews can't be Nazis? Do you think Jews have privileges? When you think Jews are different from other nations, you are already half Nazi.

Nazism refers to the act of propagating and believing in the theory of racial superiority, and exploiting and oppressing other races. If you think Jews are superior and exploit and oppress Palestinians, you are a Nazi.

The Western Ukrainian government publicized that the Russians and Tatars in eastern Ukraine were low-level nationalities, and shelled and beat them. The government of western Ukraine was, of course, Nazi. Do you think only Jews are qualified to judge who the Nazis are?

As I have said before, in 2014 and 2022, Russians are both aggressors. China will never recognize Russia's sovereignty over Crimea and other eastern regions of Ukraine.
However, the fact that Russia is an aggressor does not mean that the government of western Ukraine is not a Nazi. There is no inevitable relationship between the two.


First of all, China does not support the Khmer Rouge. China supports Prince siharuk, who is in power jointly with the Khmer Rouge. At that time, China was in the US camp. China and the United States held the same position on this issue, the two countries also supported the Cambodian royal family to prevent Vietnam from annexing Cambodia and Laos.

Secondly, Mao Zedong was certainly responsible for the great famine that occurred in China from 1958 to 1960. But famine is not equal to massacre.
Otherwise, do we want to talk about the dead population in the United States during the great depression and the responsibility of the British in 1943. The famine was caused by the British plundering food from India. Churchill not only did not care about the Indian famine in 1943, he also said: "Indians breed like rabbits." Is this supposed to be a massacre of Americans and British people?

The real human butchers are U.S. President Washington and others, as well as Israeli officials who directed the spear party to massacre refugees in Beirut refugee camp. These people were not killed by famine, but actually by bullets. Tens of millions of Indians were killed, leaving only 500000. Hitler's massacre was not as efficient as that of Americans.


As for nuclear weapons, do you think you are smarter than all previous US presidents? Can they not think of the way you think of?
Do you know that the proliferation of nuclear weapons will do the greatest harm to western countries. Yes, you can give nuclear weapons to Ukraine and Taiwan. Soon, Mexico, Venezuela, Serbia and other countries will also have nuclear weapons. Do you think Russia and China are the countries most afraid of nuclear war? Take a look at the land area of Russia. In addition, take a look at China's huge underground refuge project, which can accommodate 400million people. After the nuclear war, it must be the Chinese who return to the earth with the whole human industrial chain. The losers must not be us.

If USA and Russia fight directly, we Chinese will run underground asylum projects and hide for a few years. Anyway, our grain reserve ranks first in the world.
Our refuge project began construction in 1969 and now can accommodate about 400 million urban people. How about the Asylum Project in USA.

If your shelter cannot accommodate enough people and factories, then you are ready to die in our revenge after the nuclear war.

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## Paul2

Clutch said:


> Post Kuwait liberation... America stated their goals were complete and going Baghdad was never their mission objectives. The 2003 invasion was never part of the 1991 Gulf War. I was there so I should know.
> 
> You will not be able to provide any formal reference to support your claim.
> 
> 
> 
> My comment wasn't about Ukraine in specific. You will have to re-read my related posts....



It was actually harder to brute force the Iraqi army during the first gulf war, than the second.

Saddam had an army of 600,000 at his disposal during Kuwait invasion, and had technology level seriously favouring him.

Just like with Putin, Saddam was a hand fed beasie of French, and other Europeans, who provided his army with high-tech stuff he couldn't have gotten from USSR.

I very much hope, French will get to the point of turning the blades on their client regime there too, as was with Gaddafi, Mubarak, etc.


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541733863369621505

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## _Nabil_

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> G-7 countires have agreed to placing price caps on Russian oil sold abroad. The plan is untested, but if it works, it could deal the final blow to Vladimir Putin's ability to finance the war in Ukraine.



Reality answer : 








Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> The changes at NATO could also be in terms of years, not months. NATO announcing plans to increase its rapid response forces from 40 thousand to 300 thousand, and that will include a sizeable increase in the number of US soldiers stationed along NATO's eastern flank...where the alliance and Russia meet head on.



Good luck in financing 300.000 forces, material, maintenance, gears,.... Bankruptcy in view ...


Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Will the G7 be able to bankrupt Russia?​



Dreaming is allowed .....



Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


>

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## lightning F57

Clutch said:


> Post Kuwait liberation... America stated their goals were complete and going Baghdad was never their mission objectives. The 2003 invasion was never part of the 1991 Gulf War. I was there so I should know.
> 
> You will not be able to provide any formal reference to support your claim.
> 
> 
> 
> My comment wasn't about Ukraine in specific. You will have to re-read my related posts....


That guy comes up with the same nonsense when iraq is mentioned to justify his double standards when you compare Russia and Ukraine, complete waste of time responding to.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541910212784922627

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541706080266362888

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541900528300457988

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541899156893081601

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541899324078129154

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## jhungary

MeFishToo said:


> I think the interpretation of this agreement is going to be one in Sweden and another in Turkey. Apparently there is aggrement upon extradition between the countries, but Sweden is still going to follow swedish law.


I wouldn't know. My wife said there are some sort of agreement in place to make Swedish Policy more inline with Turks policy, it could mean anything, I doubt there are any extradition agreement tho, as Sweden is in EU, all extradition agreement they sign would need to be in EU standard.









European Convention on Extradition - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541911299340308482

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541918285473714176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541918908684410881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541924341075611648

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Yes that’s confirmed. Erdogan says yes.
> Sweden, Finland, Turkey have signed a memorandum that they will support each other if any country security is threatened. A mini defense pact.
> It can mean Sweden will begin with weapons delivery to Turkey if requested by Erdogan.
> 
> 
> View attachment 857620
> 
> Das gemeinsame Statement der Türkei, Schwedens, Finnlands und der Nato in Madrid
> Quelle: REUTERS


I find it very co-incidental for the Eurofighter people to have talk with Turkey before Turkey agree to back Sweden and Finland membership....And I don't believe in Coincident.

I don't have any solid info on this right now, but if I have to guess, US or EU or both probably agree to solve Turkey stop gap Fighter Jet problem in exchange for a "yes", as for what they are willing to do? I don't know.

Anyway, I don't see any NATO member would say No to membership for both, which mean Russia just screw themselves in the head big time for this. They started the war to stop NATO expansion into Ukraine, instead the same war make NATO expanded into Sweden and Finland......That's a "L" for Putin..

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 28​Jun 28, 2022 - Press ISW


Download the PDF
*
Kateryna Stepanenko, Frederick W. Kagan, George Barros, Mason Clark, and Grace Mappes
June 28, 7:45 pm ET*​*Click here to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Ukrainian forces are likely conducting a fighting withdrawal that may include pulling back from Lysychansk and Luhansk Oblast in the near future and which probably aims to force the Russian offensive to culminate prematurely. *The Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) Ambassador to Russia Rodion Miroshnik and Russian milbloggers claimed that Ukrainian forces began a large-scale withdrawal from Lysychansk towards Siversk, Kramatorsk, and Slovyansk on June 28.[1] Although ISW cannot confirm independently Miroshnik’s claims of an ongoing withdrawal, Ukrainian forces may continue the fighting withdrawal that began in Severodonetsk to Ukrainian strongholds around Siversk, Kramatorsk, and Slovyansk. The staunch but limited Ukrainian defense of Severodonetsk imposed high costs on the Russians despite new Russian tactics intended to limit Russian casualties. Kyiv could continue this approach until the Russian attack culminates or Ukrainian forces reach more defensible positions along a straighter line dotted with fortified cities and towns.
T*he pace and outcome of the next phase of the current campaign may depend in part on Russia’s ability to recoup combat power from the forces that participated in the Battle of Severodonetsk.* The remaining Russian forces in Severodonetsk will need to cross the Siverskyi Donets River into Lysychansk from Severodonetsk or its surrounding settlements to participate further in the Russian offensive. This movement could require some time since the Russians destroyed the three main bridges across the river near the city. Miroshnik claimed that Russian forces have already crossed the Siverskyi Donets River from Kreminna and are building bridgeheads for further attacks on Lysychansk from the north.[2] ISW cannot independently verify Miroshnik’s claims. If they are true, and Russian forces threaten to complete the cauldron by pushing from the north and southwest of Lysychansk, then Ukrainian forces will likely abandon Lysychansk as well and conduct a fighting withdrawal to more defensible positions. Russian forces that have engaged in continuous offensive operations in Severodonetsk will also require some time to restore combat capabilities before participating in an assault on northern or northeastern Lysychansk. An unnamed Pentagon official stated that Russian forces continue to endure significant losses in fights for small territorial gains, and Russian groups that fought in Severodonetsk likely lost personnel and equipment.[3] The locations and strength of the Russian troops that seized Severodonetsk remain unclear at this time, however. A notable acceleration of Russian attacks from the south of Lysychansk or from across the Siverskyi Donetsk River would likely indicate that the Russians have completed a redeployment of forces from Severodonetsk. ISW has not yet observed such indicators.
*Ukraine’s Conflict Intelligence Team (CIT) reported that the Kremlin replaced Western Military District (WMD) Commander Alexander Zhuravlev with the former commander of the 8th Combined Arms Army (CAA) Andrey Sychevoy.[4] *CIT added that WMD Chief of Staff Aleksey Zavizion was relieved. ISW cannot independently verify these reports and will continue to monitor the situation for further corroboration.
*Russian forces continue to look for additional reserves to replenish personnel losses in Ukraine, but these reserves are unlikely to initiate rotations or provide combat-ready manpower. *Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov announced that he will form four new battalions “with an impressive number of personnel” on June 26.[5] Kadyrov also announced that Chechen forces formed a West-Akhmat battalion “in the shortest possible” time and claimed that the unit would deploy to a well-equipped base in Chechnya. Chechen forces will likely deploy the newly-created battalion to the frontline without sufficient training. Social media users also released footage of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) rounding up “volunteers” in Donetsk City as part of the recruitment campaign on June 28.[6] Wives of servicemen of the Russian 5th Guards Separate Tank Brigade issued a video plea for the immediate rotation of their husbands back home, noting that their husbands had left their permanent bases of deployment in January 2022 for “exercises in Belarus.”[7] The video indicates that the Russian military command has expressed its intentions for unit rotations.
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces continued to launch assault operations south and southwest of Lysychansk. The Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) officials claimed that Ukrainian forces had begun to withdraw from the city, but ISW cannot confirm these claims.*
*Russian forces launched unsuccessful offensive operations north of Slovyansk and conducted spoiling attacks on settlements west of Izyum, likely to disrupt Ukrainian counteroffensives.*
*Russian forces failed to advance along the Kharkiv City-Belgorod highway and continued to undertake measures to hinder Ukrainian advances towards the international border or Izyum.*
*Ukrainian forces continued to launch counteroffensives north of Kherson City and reportedly liberated two settlements.*
*Russian forces continued to transfer military equipment and personnel east of Melitopol.*
*Russian occupation authorities are maintaining unsuccessful efforts to introduce ruble salary payments and set conditions to inflate electoral numbers in a future referendum.*



*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis;
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued to conduct offensive operations southwest of Lysychansk to sever the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway in several areas. Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai reported that Russian forces attempted to gain a foothold in the southern part of the Lysychansk Oil Refinery and pushed west of Vochoyarivka, but did not reach the T1302 as of June 28.[8] Haidai also added that Russian forces fought south and southwest of Lysychansk. Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) Ambassador to Russia Rodion Miroshnik claimed that LNR and Russian forces have advanced a third of the way into Lysychansk from the south and are fighting at the Shaktar football stadium, while other troops cross the Siverskyi Donetsk River around Kreminna. ISW is unable to independently verify these claims.[9] The Ukrainian General Staff noted that Russian forces also conducted an unsuccessful attack west of Mykolaivka and Yakovlivka, both along the T1302.[10] Russian Su-25 aircraft struck Ukrainian positions in Bila Hora, just southeast of Lysychansk.[11]



Russian forces continued to make limited territorial gains south of Bakhmut on June 28. Russian forces continued to attack settlements along the E-40 highway that runs from Slovyansk to Bakhmut, approximately 13km southeast of Bakhmut.[12] The Ukrainian General Staff also added that Russian forces are attacking in the direction of the Uglehirska Power Plant northwest of Svitlodarsk.[13] Ukrainian forces reportedly repelled Russian attacks in Pavlivka, just east of the Donetsk-Zaporizhia Oblast border.[14]
Russian forces are likely continuing to launch spoiling attacks west of Izyum to disrupt Ukrainian counteroffensives in the area. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces attempted an unsuccessful assault on Zalyman, approximately 26km northwest of Izyum, on June 28, having failed to advance in the area yesterday.[15] Russian forces likely continued to attack Zalyman with insufficient combat power to make real gains in their effort to disrupt Ukrainian counter-offensives and thereby defend Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum through Borova (approximately 41km east). Ukrainian forces continued to target Russian equipment in Vesele, just east of Zalyman.[16] Russian forces are likely also continuing to conduct aerial reconnaissance and operate near Velyka Komyshuvakha (approximately 21km west of Izyum) to disrupt Ukrainian advances from the west.[17]




Russian forces conducted assaults north of Slovyansk but were unable to advance along the E-40 highway on June 28. Ukrainian Defense Ministry Spokesperson Oleksandr Motuzyanyk reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian offensive operations on Mazanivka, just west of the E40.[18] Russian forces also continued to shell settlements around Lyman and Slovyansk itself.[19]
*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum and prevent Ukrainian forces from reaching the Russian border)*
Russian forces launched unsuccessful offensive operations in northwestern Kharkiv Oblast and continued to undertake measures to prevent Ukrainian forces from reaching the international border or striking Russian positions southeast of Kharkiv City. Ukrainian Defense Ministry Spokesperson Oleksandr Motuzyanyk reported that Ukrainian forces repelled a Russian attack on Dementiivka along the Kharkiv City-Belgorod highway.[20] The Ukrainian General Staff added that Russian Ka-52 helicopters struck in the area of Yavirske, 65km southeast of Kharkiv City, likely to hinder Ukrainian counterattacks in the area.[21] Russian forces continued to shell Kharkiv City and settlements in its vicinity and conduct aerial reconnaissance.[22]



*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Ukrainian forces continued to launch counteroffensive operations north of Kherson City on June 28. Ukrainian military journalist Andriy Tsaplienko reported that Ukrainian forces liberated Zelenyi Hai and Barvinok, approximately 25km north of Kherson City on the Mykolaiv-Kherson Oblast border.[23] An unnamed Pentagon official had previously reported that Ukrainian forces liberated small villages north and northwest of Kherson City over the weekend, but neither Ukrainian nor US officials had named these settlements as of June 28.[24] The Ukrainian Southern Operational Command stated that Russian forces unsuccessfully attempted to regain previously lost positions in Potyomkyne, Plotnytske, and Lupareve in northwestern Kherson Oblast.[25] Russian forces continued to shell and launch air strikes along the Mykolaiv-Kherson and Kherson-Dnipropetrovsk Oblast borders to disrupt Ukrainian counteroffensives.[26] Ukrainian Southern Operational Command Spokesperson Nataliya Gumenyuk noted that Ukrainian forces also struck three Russian Pantsir systems in a continuing effort to destroy Russian defenses on the Snake Island off the Romanian coast.[27]



Russian forces continued to transfer equipment and personnel east of Melitopol on June 28. Zaporizhia Oblast Military Administration Head Oleksandr Starukh reported that Russian forces are transporting military equipment to and from Melitopol to unspecified settlements in the east.[28] Starukh added that Russian forces moved a battalion tactical group (BTG) to Berdyansk and the Prymorsk area, but it is unclear if the BTG will continue further east or remain in that area. Russian forces may be relocating more military personnel to suppress rising partisan activity in cities like Berdyansk or could be reinforcing Russian defensive positions on the Donetsk-Zaporizhia Oblast border. Russian forces are also likely setting conditions to hold the E58 highway stretching from Rostov-on-Don to Kherson City even if Ukrainian counteroffensives push back the Russian line to the north.
*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian occupation authorities continued to introduce bureaucratic measures to install societal control over occupied territories on June 28 but face challenges due to Ukrainian resistance. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported that the Russian occupation administration is attempting to carry out a medical reform in Kherson Oblast to follow the Russian healthcare model.[29] Ukrainian healthcare workers largely refuse to cooperate with Russian occupation authorities, disrupting Russian plans to introduce ruble salaries in Kherson Oblast. The Ukrainian Southern Operational Command also noted that Russian forces are opening a network of offices in southern Ukraine offering Russian passports, likely to inflate electorate numbers before a referendum.[30]

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541894901784248321


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## Amaa'n

Time for everyone to take a break from this topic for couple of days, receiving all lot of complaints from this thread…. Will unlock thread in few days once you folks have cooled down…..
Dont start a new thread as it will result in ban

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## waz

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> Time for everyone to take a break from this topic for couple of days, receiving all lot of complaints from this thread…. Will unlock thread in few days once you folks have cooled down…..
> Dont start a new thread as it will result in ban



Bro sorry I shall keep an eye on it. *I'll open it and ensure thread bans for foolish posts.*
I haven't kept track of this topic as much.
Many people are asking for it to be opened.

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## TNT

@Hassan Al-Somal @The SC and others kindly update us. Thanks

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## Paul2

Ukraine completed partial withdrawal from Liysychansk, but remaining SOF, and irregulars still fight in around the city, and keep Lysychansk firebases working, and artillerymen/mortarmen there protected.

I think, nearly all regulars are out, remaining ones are arty, SOF, and volunteer regiments.

This frees more regulars to keep the supply line to lysychanks open, and counterattacks in Popasna direction.

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## Viet

Paul2 said:


> Ukraine completed partial withdrawal from Liysychansk, but remaining SOF, and irregulars still fight in around the city, and keep Lysychansk firebases working, and artillerymen/mortarmen there protected.
> 
> I think, nearly all regulars are out, remaining ones are arty, SOF, and volunteer regiments.
> 
> This frees more regulars to keep the supply line to lysychanks open, and counterattacks in Popasna direction.


Artillery fires 60,000 shells per day that would be suicide if Ukraine army remains static staying in one place. They do called flexible response.


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## Ali_Baba

Russian navy sinks its OWN ship​








'A black day' Putin humiliated as Russian navy sinks its OWN ship in latest calamity


VLADIMIR Putin was left red-faced after his naval commanders managed to sink one of their own ships in a calamitous incident.




www.express.co.uk

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## beijingwalker

Russia struggles in the ground war, but it’s winning the energy war​Europe’s energy populism was based on plentiful Russian gas. Now Vladimir Putin is exploiting it to the hilt.

*Matthew Warren*Energy expert
Jun 21, 2022 – 3.22pm

It might be summer in Europe but there’s a chill in Kyiv. Russia may not have won a decisive military victory in Ukraine, but it is winning the energy war.

Last week a posse of European political leaders visited Kyiv to duchess Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky. The body language was tense. French President Emmanuel Macron in a sharp suit, Zelensky in a military T-shirt. Smiles and rhetoric from the Europeans, a grim-faced Ukrainian president.

Europe’s military support has slowed to a trickle. They need this war to end. They can’t afford it to continue. Europe is facing serious energy shortages this winter in what could be a worsening of a year-long energy crisis.

Europe’s energy crisis has spread into global energy markets. Even energy-rich Australia has not been spared. Any coal and gas not contracted has been hoovered up by white-hot export markets, exacerbating energy shortages at home.

European leaders face a terrible moral dilemma in Ukraine, largely of their own making. The uncomfortable choices that await are the result of avoiding making uncomfortable choices over the past decade.

By taking the populist route on energy policy they have unwittingly ceded enormous strategic advantage to Russian President Vladimir Putin. He has been exploiting it, and he’s winning.

The war in Ukraine has always been linked to energy. Putin began to amass troops on the Ukraine border as the European energy shortage deteriorated. It was an act of brinkmanship to stop Ukraine from joining the NATO alliance that became a failed attempt at occupation.



> Sanctions imposed on Russia are causing at least as much pain as they were designed to inflict.


The fragility of Russia’s military capability has been exposed by the failure, at least in part offset by the potency of its use of energy as a strategic weapon.

Europe depends on Russia for 40 per cent of its gas. European gas imports have increased over the past decade to replace declining local production, to firm increased renewables and to help replace capacity from closing coal and nuclear generation.

The European Union was founded on the principle of co-dependency. The Treaty of Rome was signed in 1957 in the aftermath of World War II. The idea was that by making European economies co-dependent on each other, they would never be able to go to war with each other.


European leaders have discovered their relationship with Russia is dependent, not co-dependent. They have become heavily reliant on Russia’s energy exports more than anything heading in the opposite direction.

Economic sanctions imposed on Russia are causing at least as much pain as they were designed to inflict. Europe’s energy shortage has worsened. Prices have increased. So lopsided is the relationship that Russia has still been able to force European utilities to pay for their gas in roubles, undermining the impact the sanctions were supposed to have.

Fig leaf on a peace deal​Last week, Macron, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz and Italian Prime Minister Mario Draghi were talking up including Ukraine, or at least whatever is left of it, as a possible new member. EU membership is likely to be one of the fig leafs on a Ukrainian peace deal they have been socialising since May. The Italian proposed deal starts with a ceasefire but, critically, ends with the wind down of all economic sanctions against Russia.

Despite the sanctions, Russia has continued to exploit its strategic advantage, cutting off supply to countries that refuse its commercial terms. It is now slowing gas flows to undermine attempts by European utilities to recharge their huge gas storages needed to maintain adequate supply in winter when gas and energy demand peaks.

That’s only six months away. The energy crisis might feel bad now, but it could get a lot worse yet.

The International Energy Agency has warned of energy rationing in Europe this winter, with particular anxiety around gas supply. This would not only push up energy prices but also slow industrial production, exacerbating already acute supply chain shortages.

The US State Department has been warning European governments of the strategic energy risk posed by Russia for the past decade. It wasn’t hard to see. Russia has repeatedly curtailed or halted energy exports, mostly in the middle of winter, to renegotiate terms and flex its influence.

German governments tried to avoid such risks by building direct gas pipelines into Russia. This has failed spectacularly. Russia is now slowing gas flowing along the first Nord Stream pipeline, while the second was suspended following the invasion of Ukraine.

After the Fukushima nuclear disaster in 2011 the German government accelerated the closure of its nuclear generators when they should have been building more. There are only two scalable sources of zero emissions energy: renewables and nuclear. It is hard to see how Germany, and most of Europe for that matter, can function in the 21st century without more of both of them.

The compromises needed now are uncomfortable. German coal generators are being brought back into service as survival trumps climate ambition. And the resilience of the Ukrainian people is rewarded with a peace deal where they are the only ones who give something up.









Russia struggles in the ground war, but it’s winning the energy war


Europe’s energy populism was based on plentiful Russian gas. Now Vladimir Putin is exploiting their dependence to the hilt.




www.afr.com

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## Dustom9

Basically Ukraine loosing this that them everyday, but Russian forces suck a s s because Ukraine is beating them black and blue.
Resident trainers here on pdf trained Ukrainian how to hold a rifle, make use of mortar and what not but there was actually no need for such intervention as Russian forces suck. Most of the Russian forces are conscripted who do not know which way the bullet comes out of a rifle.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543124620223680512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543135097469149185

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543192810836398082

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543202294283571208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543205583909801984

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543209603823026176

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543189876585144320

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## jhungary

Paul2 said:


> Ukraine completed partial withdrawal from Liysychansk, but remaining SOF, and irregulars still fight in around the city, and keep Lysychansk firebases working, and artillerymen/mortarmen there protected.
> 
> I think, nearly all regulars are out, remaining ones are arty, SOF, and volunteer regiments.
> 
> This frees more regulars to keep the supply line to lysychanks open, and counterattacks in Popasna direction.



Intelligence suggested Ukrainian is making a counter push in Kherson and Izyum.

Not too many indication that they are going to do anything In Popasna direction, most likely they are going to do the same thing they are doing to Russian in Sieverodonetsk, they are going to grind down Russian offensive in Lysychansk.

Not saying a counterattack is not possible, but most analyst suggest not really materialised after August.

On the other hand, since Russian lost snake island, Ukrainian defence in Odessa expanded Eastward. My source told me they are thinning out Odessa defence by 1/10, the claim was there were around 400,000 defender (4 -6 Brigades + TDF) in the region, they are bringing them down to 300,000 and spare the troop for a push to Kherson.

So losing Snake Island may be detrimental to Russian on Kherson. Some western analyst started to make claim that Kherson is undefendable by the Russian in the current form. They need to thin out the troop in the East and redeploy them back to the South if they want to hold Kherson.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543054588407840770

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543143308926631936

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543000450462789632

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## Ali_Baba

Russia will try hard to hold onto Kherson. If they lose Kherson, they will also lose the landbridge to Crimea aswell. Ukraine seems to be fighting a better strategic war than Russia and the tide is about to turn against Russia now that Ukraine has managed to train a lot more soldiers and more weapon systems are starting to turn up in Ukraine. The loss of Snake Island would have been quite embarrasing for Russia aswell.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542851784007376896

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JULY 1​Jul 1, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF
*
Kateryna Stepanenko, Karolina Hird, Frederick W. Kagan, and George Barros
July 1, 6:45pm ET*​*Click here to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
The Kremlin is likely setting conditions for crypto-mobilization of the Russian economy in preparation for a protracted war in Ukraine. *The Kremlin proposed an amendment to federal laws on Russian Armed Forces supply matters to the Russian State Duma on June 30, that would introduce “special measures in the economic sphere” obliging Russian businesses (regardless of ownership) to supply Russian special military and counterterrorist operations.[1] The amendment would prohibit Russian businesses from refusing to accept state orders for special military operations and allow the Kremlin to change employee contracts and work conditions, such as forcing workers to work during the night or federal holidays. The Kremlin noted in the amendment’s description that the ongoing special military operation in Ukraine exposed supply shortages, specifically materials needed to repair military equipment, and stated that Russian officials need to “concentrate their efforts in certain sectors of the economy." Russian President Vladimir Putin is likely mobilizing the Russian economy and industry to sustain the ongoing war effort, but has not yet taken parallel measures to mobilize Russian manpower on a large scale.
*Russian authorities are likely taking measures to integrate the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (NPP) directly into the Russian energy system, contradicting previous Russian statements that the Zaporizhzhia NPP would sell electricity to Ukraine.* Olga Kosharna, an independent expert on nuclear energy, stated on June 30 that Russia’s Rosatom (Russian state-owned nuclear energy corporation) employees have been taking measures at the Zaporizhzhia NPP to potentially divert its energy to the Russian energy grid.[2] Kosharna added that Russian forces have been working in Chonhard (southern Kherson Oblast) to repair the main energy transmission line that runs into Crimea, which Ukrainian forces had destroyed in 2015 following Russia’s seizure of the transmission line after the annexation of Crimea in 2014. Representatives of Ukraine’s Ukrenergo electricity transmission operator had stated as recently as late May that it would be physically impossible for Russia to divert Ukrainian electricity to Russia following the destruction of those transmission lines.[3] Russian forces are likely seeking to ensure physical access to transmission lines in order to support the direct flow of Ukrainian energy into Russia, which may explain some of the military activities observed in recent weeks in the Russian-occupied portions of Zaporizhia Oblast.
Russian authorities had indicated on May 18 that while the Zaporizhzhia NPP would work for Russia, it would continue to sell energy to Ukraine, as ISW reported.[4] However, it is becoming increasingly evident that Russian authorities are taking measures to integrate Ukrainian economic assets directly into the Russian economy. Reports that Russian forces may be preparing a false flag provocation at the Zaporizhzhia NPP could be part of this Russian effort--Moscow might use such a false flag attack to accuse Ukrainian authorities of mismanaging nuclear assets and justify taking full control of them and their output.[5]
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces continued efforts to encircle Lysychansk and conducted offensive operations to the south and southwest of the city.*
*Russian forces have likely not yet reached the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway on the ground but are denying Ukrainian forces use of it by continuing artillery and airstrikes against remaining Ukrainian positions along the road.*
*Russian forces focused on regrouping and improving their tactical positions north of Slovyansk.*
*Russian forces did not conduct any confirmed ground assaults in northern Kharkiv Oblast and continued shelling Ukrainian positions north of Kharkiv City.*
*Russian forces conducted artillery and missile strikes along the Southern Axis.*
*Russian authorities continue efforts to expand the pool of recruits available to fight in Ukraine.* 
*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis;
Mobilization and force generation efforts;
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine*




Click here to enlarge the map.​*Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)



*
Click here to enlarge the map.
*



*
Click here to enlarge the map.
*Russian forces continued to conduct offensive operations in settlements south and southwest of Lysychansk in an effort to encircle the city and sever Ukrainian logistics routes on June 1. *Head of the Luhansk Oblast Administration Serhiy Haidai reported that Russian forces continued to launch assaults on the Lysychansk Oil Refinery and secured their positions in the northwestern and southeastern parts of the plant.[6] The Russian Defense Ministry claimed that Russian forces seized the Lysychansk Gelatin Factory, but Ukrainian officials stated that Ukrainian forces repelled a Russian reconnaissance-in-force against the plant.[7] Russian forces attacked Topolivka, the northern part of Vovchoyarivka, and Maloryazantseve, and are interdicting Ukrainian lines of communication along the Topolivka-Lysychansk road.[8] Russian Telegram channel Rybar claimed that fighting is ongoing in Bila Hora, just southeast of Lysychansk, which if true, would indicate that Ukrainian forces continue to defend the western bank of the Siverskyi Donetsk river.[9] Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) Ambassador to Russia Rodion Miroshnik claimed that Russian forces established a bridgehead from Synetskyi in the area of the Lysychansk helipad, situated in the northeastern part of the city, and began advancing southwest to the city center.[10] Miroshnik additionally claimed that Russian forces conducted operations near the Lysychansk Rubber Factory in the southeast part of the city. Russian sources continued to issue numerous reports of a successful Russian river crossing near Kreminna, but ISW cannot independently verify such claims with available satellite imagery.[11] Chechen fighters published a video claiming to have seized Pryvillya and reached Novodruzhensk on July 1.[12] The Ukrainian General Staff reported shelling in Pryvillya, however.[13]
*Russian forces maintained artillery fire and launched airstrikes along the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway, but have not completely severed the road as of July 1.[14] *Haidai reported that Russian forces have not reached the T1302 on the ground, likely due to Ukrainian resistance in settlements along the highway.[15] Both Russian and Ukrainian sources stated that Russian forces shelled Ukrainian positions in the vicinity of Bakhmut and along the T1302.[16] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces unsuccessfully attempted to improve their tactical positions to support the advance towards Pokrovske and launched airstrikes on Pokrovske and Klynove.[17] Rybar claimed that Wagner Group forces attempted to break through Ukrainian defenses in the Bakhmut direction, but Ukrainian officials did not report active ground assault east of the city on July 1.[18]
*Russian forces did not conduct offensive operations north of Slovyansk on July 1 and instead focused on regrouping troops, maintaining artillery fire, and improving their tactical positions.[19] *Kharkiv Oblast Administration Head Oleg Synegubov stated that Russian forces are regrouping units, likely in an effort to resume an offensive on Slovyansk.[20] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces intensified unspecified hostilities in the Lyman area and shelled Siversk, likely in an effort to disrupt Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) in the Siversk area that run to Lysychansk.[21] Geolocated footage showed Ukrainian forces striking a Russian Air Force maintenance base near Kunie, situated 22km north of Izyum and adjacent to a connecting road that leads to Russian GLOCs to Izyum.[22] Other geolocated footage also showed separate Ukrainian strikes on Russian supply stockpiles and vehicles in the same area north of Izyum.[23] 
*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum and prevent Ukrainian forces from reaching the Russian border)



*
Click here to enlarge the map.
*Russian forces continued to shell Ukrainian positions around Kharkiv City and did not conduct offensive operations north or northeast of the city on July 1.[24] *The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces have concentrated units of the Western Military District (WMD) around Kharkiv City to defend previously-occupied positions and maintain systematic artillery fire.[25] The Ukrainian General Staff added that Russian forces launched an airstrike on Mospanove, approximately 55km southeast of Kharkiv City, likely in an effort to suppress Ukrainian counteroffensives in the area.[26] Kharkiv Oblast Administration Head Oleg Synegubov stated that Ukrainian forces have not lost any liberated territories around Kharkiv City since their liberation in May. His claim is likely untrue; ISW has assessed that Russian forces recaptured Ternova and Izbytske in June.[27] 
*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Russian objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)



*
Click here to enlarge the map.
*Russian forces conducted artillery and missile strikes across the Southern Axis on July 1.* Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported that Russian Tu-22 aircraft launched three Kh-22 cruise missiles at the Serhiivka resort village of the Bilhorod-Dnistrovsky district of Odesa Oblast and struck a residential area, killing 16 people and injuring 38.[28] Russian forces also conducted artillery strikes on various areas of Kherson, Mykolaiv, Zaporizhia, and Dnipropetrovsk Oblasts.[29] Head of the Mykolaiv Oblast Administration Vitaly Kim reported that Russian forces fired 12 missiles at Mykolaiv Oblast over the course of the day on July 1.[30]
*Mobilization and force generation efforts (Russian objective: Expand combat power without conducting general mobilization)
The Russian military leadership continued efforts to expand the pool of servicemembers available to fight in Ukraine. *The Ukrainian General Staff reported that the Russian Eastern Military District is conducting an “active conscription campaign” and opened a “recruitment center for the mobilization reserve” at the points of permanent deployment of the 127th Motorized Rifle Brigade of the 5th Combined Arms Army in Vladivostok and Sergeevka.[31] It is unclear whether the Ukrainian General Staff is referring to a volunteer recruitment drive, a call-up of conscripts, or a call-up of reservists. Authorities of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) are reportedly collecting recent graduates of the DNR's Academy of the Ministry of Internal Affairs for immediate deployment without requisite documentation.[32] Melitopol Mayor Ivan Fedorov additionally claimed that Syrian troops are stationed in Melitopol alongside Russian occupation elements, which indicates that Russian authorities are continuing to leverage foreign combat reserves.[33] 
*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)
Russian authorities continued to set conditions for the economic and legal integration of occupied territories into Russian systems on July 1. *The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported that Russian authorities in occupied Kherson Oblast closed the Kherson branch of Ukrposhta (the Ukrainian national postal service) as part of the overall effort to force Ukrainian enterprises in occupied areas to convert to the ruble.[34] Melitopol Mayor Ivan Fedorov similarly stated that Russian authorities are ”planting” rubles in Melitopol to facilitate economic annexation of businesses.[35] Russian authorities are also continuing ”passportization” measures in Melitopol and Luhansk Oblast.[36]
Russian authorities are also taking measures to streamline cooperation between the Russian legal system and legislative bodies in occupied areas. Russian Federal Penitentiary Service Director Arkady Gostev signed a memorandum of understanding for law enforcement with the Luhansk People’s Republic’s (LNR) First Deputy Minister of Internal Affairs Roman Vedmedenko, which will facilitate further integration of the LNR into Russia’s criminal law and prison system.[37] Such measures are part of a wider campaign by Russian authorities to set frameworks of cooperation between occupied Ukrainian areas and Russian political elements in order to shape the development of occupied areas in a way that resembles Russian structures and is conducive to direct integration.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543209034299449344

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## F-22Raptor

Ali_Baba said:


> Russia will try hard to hold onto Kherson. If they lose Kherson, they will also lose the landbridge to Crimea aswell. Ukraine seems to be fighting a better strategic war than Russia and the tide is about to turn against Russia now that Ukraine has managed to train a lot more soldiers and more weapon systems are starting to turn up in Ukraine. The loss of Snake Island would have been quite embarrasing for Russia aswell.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543094917777559552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543094918830227456

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## jhungary

Ali_Baba said:


> Russia will try hard to hold onto Kherson. If they lose Kherson, they will also lose the landbridge to Crimea aswell. Ukraine seems to be fighting a better strategic war than Russia and the tide is about to turn against Russia now that Ukraine has managed to train a lot more soldiers and more weapon systems are starting to turn up in Ukraine. The loss of Snake Island would have been quite embarrasing for Russia aswell.


As said before, losing snake Island release Ukrainian defence in Odessa, you really can't attack from the sea and fly support to Odessa from Crimea, this would take too long. Which mean Odessa is more or less not going to be attacked (other than using missile) from now on. 

That would mean troop defending Odessa can be redeploy elsewhere, and the most logical choice is Kherson. Ukraine is going to at least try to retake Kherson, but whether or not they will be able to pull it off is another issue, On the other hand, Kherson city is very much like Sieverodonetsk, with the River behind the city, which make it easy to attack, hard to defend because there are choke point For Russian to bring in supply and reinforcement from the south. As you need to go thru the 3 bridges across the Dnieper

It also depends on whether or not the Ukrainian would want to destroy those bridge or take them intact, if they destroy them, it would be easier to take Kherson but it would set them back months to continue afterward. On the other hand, if they try to keep the bridge intact, then they will have a harder time in Kherson but it would be easier run to the South afterward.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543207573947645953

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543206736097681414

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543206545361625092

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543141617250492417

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543225576600879107


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## ARMalik

Ukraine has lost more troops during the Russian invasion than there are infantry in the British army, defense expert says


Defense expert Jack Watling said Ukraine has lost more soldiers in the four months since Russia's invasion than there are infantry in the British army.




www.businessinsider.com





Ukraine has lost more troops during the Russian invasion than there are infantry in the British army, defense expert says​
Ukraine's military has suffered more casualties in the four months since Russia's invasion than there are infantry troops the British Army all together, a defense expert said.

There were 18,000 infantry in the British Army in 2021, according to the UK Defence Journal.

*Jack Watling, a senior research fellow at the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI), *came to the startling conclusion during a speech at the RUSI Land Warfare Conference Tuesday, according to reporters and attendees at the conference.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543232589129207808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543233077773848576

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## sammuel

Viet said:


> Artillery fires 60,000 shells per day that would be suicide if Ukraine army remains static staying in one place.



I wonder how long the Russian can keep firing at this rate , before running into some ammunition shortage . That is almost 2 million shells a month. No stock is limitless , they are bound to run into some supply issues at some point.

And i see that on top of that , they lost a couple of ammunition depos in recent week. Judging by the size of some of the explosions , that's looks like ten of thousands of shells , intended for the front . gone up in one go.










~


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## KediKesenFare3

@jhungary 

I assume that Russia has decided to attack Odessa via land and not sea. This is why they have abandoned the Snake Island in the first place.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543140620369289216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542962850041417729

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542816929965936641

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## F-22Raptor

KediKesenFare said:


> @jhungary
> 
> I assume that Russia has decided to attack Odessa via land and not sea. This is why they have abandoned the Snake Island in the first place.




Russia is never going to take Odessa.


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## Viet

sammuel said:


> I wonder how long the Russian can keep firing at this rate , before running into some ammunition shortage . That is almost 2 million shells a month. No stock is limitless , they are bound to run into some supply issues at some point.
> 
> And i see that on top of that , they lost a couple of ammunition depos in recent week. Judging by the size of some of the explosions , that's looks like ten of thousands of shells , intended for the front . gone up in one go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


60k shells per day, every day. That’s lot. Russia ammo factories must run full speed. But seems they run out of high precision ammunitions, land missiles. they now even use Kh22 antiship missiles to target civil infra. As seen they hit a shopping mall. Putin’s goal is maximum terror.

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## jhungary

KediKesenFare said:


> @jhungary
> 
> I assume that Russia has decided to attack Odessa via land and not sea. This is why they have abandoned the Snake Island in the first place.


You can't attack Odessa via land without taking Mykolaiv. The troop station in Transnistria is too low (mid-1000s) to make any different. When Snake Island felt, the majority of the defending troop facing Black sea can be relief while keeping the troop between Mykolaiv and Odessa in place. Which would then free up the troop in question for redeployment.

They were facing attacking on 2 sides before, now only one.

Plus, I honestly don't think the Russia can push the Ukrainian that far back into Mykolaiv, IF, let just say for argument sake, if that was to happen, it would have to wait until Battle of Donbas concluded in Russian favor, and then judging by the advance the Russia did in Donbas, you are talking about 3 to 4 months to cover the 70 odd km from Kherson to Mykolaiv, and that is just for putting themselves in position to attack Mykolaiv. Not taking it or on the way to Odessa

Odessa is a gone objective, the fact shown pretty clear by Russian releasing Snake Island.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542941255939784705

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543151156855279621


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## jhungary

My source told me huge explosion was heard in Kherson Airport. 

Looks like Ukrianian is shelling Kherson Airport North West of the City. Maybe nothing or maybe making a move. 
The Airport is 10km from City centre, and around 5 to 6 Km from the outskirt of the city. Russian force is on Kherson Airport.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543273733862858752

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## ARMalik

*ROYAL UNITED SERVICES INSTITUTE - UK

The West Cannot match the Industrial Military Output of Russia*








The Return of Industrial Warfare


Can the West still provide the arsenal of democracy?




rusi.org





The Return of Industrial Warfare​The war in Ukraine has proven that the age of industrial warfare is still here. The massive consumption of equipment, vehicles and ammunition requires a large-scale industrial base for resupply – quantity still has a quality of its own. *The mass scale combat has pitted 250,000 Ukrainian soldiers, together with 450,000 recently mobilised citizen soldiers against about 200,000 Russian and separatist troops. *The effort to arm, feed and supply these armies is a monumental task. Ammunition resupply is particularly onerous. For Ukraine, compounding this task are Russian deep fires capabilities, which target Ukrainian military industry and transportation networks throughout the depth of the country. The Russian army has also suffered from Ukrainian cross-border attacks and acts of sabotage, *but at a smaller scale.* The rate of ammunition and equipment consumption in Ukraine can only be sustained by a large-scale industrial base.

This reality should be a concrete warning to Western countries, who have scaled down military industrial capacity and sacrificed scale and effectiveness for efficiency. This strategy relies on flawed assumptions about the future of war, and has been influenced by both the bureaucratic culture in Western governments and the legacy of low-intensity conflicts. *Currently, the West may not have the industrial capacity to fight a large-scale war.* *If the US government is planning to once again become the arsenal of democracy, then the existing capabilities of the US military-industrial base and the core assumptions that have driven its development need to be re-examined.*

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## ckf

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia is never going to take Odessa.


Mariupol took 2 month, Severondoensk took 2 week and Lysychansk is taking 2 days. Russia tempo and logistics are firing on all cylinders. Donbass will be quickly overrun because the worse possible outcome of a defensive front is low moral and logistical confusion as ukrainian army retreat. Lysychansk had Ukranine's battle hardened troops and if they don't stand to fight, the entire Donbass defensive line will collapse. Whether Putin wants Odessa or Kharkiv, it's up to him. I can't see how a newly formed conscript army with little training can stand up to Russia army.

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## Viet

Norway gives one billion euros to Ukraine.









Norwegen sagt Ukraine knapp eine Milliarde Euro weitere Hilfe zu


Norwegen hat der Ukraine umgerechnet fast eine Milliarde Euro an weiteren Hilfsgeldern zugesagt. Die Zahlungen sollen sich über einen Zeitraum von zwei Jahren erstrecken.




www.tah.de

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## Viet

ckf said:


> Mariupol took 2 month, Severondoensk took 2 week and Lysychansk is taking 2 days. Russia tempo and logistics are firing on all cylinders. Donbass will be quickly overrun because the worse possible outcome of a defensive front is low moral and logistical confusion as ukrainian army retreat. Lysychansk had Ukranine's battle hardened troops and if they don't stand to fight, the entire Donbass defensive line will collapse. Whether Putin wants Odessa or Kharkiv, it's up to him. I can't see how a newly formed conscript army with little training can stand up to Russia army.


Severondoensk is not taken within 2 weeks. Russia began the offensive at Easter in April, two flank attack southern and eastern fronts. Retreats don’t mean defeats. Putin’s army can’t hold the occupation forever that’s impossible. Russia don’t have the manpower and resources.


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## PakFactor

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542880296026136577



One’s really questions the Wests mental faculty when they make these baseless statements.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543270948266180609

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543269606449717248

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## That Guy

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542880296026136577


Off topic, please delete.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543210937540399104

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## Soldier35

Footage has emerged of the Russian helicopter KA-52 pursuing and destroying a vehicle of the Ukrainian armed forces. The video at the end is changed, because after the destruction of the car, the footage is too hard.






The Russian Ministry of Defense showed the combat work of the T-80BV tank and the BTR-82A armored personnel carrier of the Marine Corps in Ukraine. The crew of the T-80BV uses a complex tactical element - "flank shooting" and suppresses the strongholds of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with fire.






Former President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko, who is now in the UK, bought used DAF military trucks for the Ukrainian army with the money of his foundation

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## Gomig-21

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542865715027271682

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2 | Angry Angry:
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## ckf

Viet said:


> Severondoensk is not taken within 2 weeks. Russia began the offensive at Easter in April, two flank attack southern and eastern fronts. Retreats don’t mean defeats. Putin’s army can’t hold the occupation forever that’s impossible. Russia don’t have the manpower and resources.


Can US keep donate weapons and finance Ukraine proxy war indefinetly? Not according to this poll which states 28% of American ready to take arms to fight the government, and we have midterm election coming in November. Biden's admin will be lame duck and no possibility of funding Ukraine next year. 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/30/poll-americans-guns-against-government

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543303450129301506

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543302118496428033

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543288353306464258

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543283522231848962

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543273731430051841

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543334861670416385

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543327837981216774

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542958794912694275


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543223365372084224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543237800421724160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543206545361625092

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542405918117318656

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1 | Love Love:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542939816102400002

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542886819737620480

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2 | Wow Wow:
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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543290321911615490

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543289178242293767

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543254122526277632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543217173740625920

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543189542987091968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542957621514207234


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543299233406750725

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543349879258349571


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543221701319827463


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Norway gives one billion euros to Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Norwegen sagt Ukraine knapp eine Milliarde Euro weitere Hilfe zu
> 
> 
> Norwegen hat der Ukraine umgerechnet fast eine Milliarde Euro an weiteren Hilfsgeldern zugesagt. Die Zahlungen sollen sich über einen Zeitraum von zwei Jahren erstrecken.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tah.de



Why only 1 billion? Norway should print 1 trillion euros and give that to Ukraine.

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## FuturePAF

Considering Kaliningrad has been cut off by rail from Russia and there is so much food stuck in Odessa, the UN should mediate some kind of land shipment deal to allow movement. The longer food sits in Odessa, the more likely it will just rot in storage. The global food storage may forces tens of millions of new migrants to Europe.

The only other alternative is Russia feeling it needs to take Odessa ASAP, to bring the war to some kind of conclusion and prevent more pressure being put upon them.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

FuturePAF said:


> Considering Kaliningrad has been cut off by rail from Russia and there is so much food stuck in Odessa, the UN should mediate some kind of land shipment deal to allow movement. The longer food sits in Odessa, the more likely it will just rot in storage. The global food storage may forces tens of millions of new migrants to Europe.
> 
> The only alternative is Russia feeling it needs to take Odessa ASAP.



Kaliningrad is sparsely populated and accessible by ship from Saint Petersburg. Lithuania cannot block it.

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Why only 1 billion? Norway should print 1 trillion euros and give that to Ukraine.


Russias version of Goebbels has returned, flooding the threat with state sponsered stories, and whatever he believes master Putin seems fit.
Youve made like 4-5 new post in a heart beat.

Ps. hows the HIMARS hunting going with the helicopters firing missiles from 100 km away?


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Russias version of Goebbels has returned, flooding the threat with state sponsered stories, and whatever he believes master Putin seems fit.
> Youve made like 4-5 new post in a heart beat.
> 
> Ps. hows the HIMARS hunting going with the helicopters firing missiles from 100 km away?



HIMARS is dead meat. Mi-28 N/NM kills it with Hermes NLOS missiles. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543223365372084224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543290321911615490

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## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> Intelligence suggested Ukrainian is making a counter push in Kherson and Izyum.
> 
> Not too many indication that they are going to do anything In Popasna direction, most likely they are going to do the same thing they are doing to Russian in Sieverodonetsk, they are going to grind down Russian offensive in Lysychansk.
> 
> Not saying a counterattack is not possible, but most analyst suggest not really materialised after August.
> 
> On the other hand, since Russian lost snake island, Ukrainian defence in Odessa expanded Eastward. My source told me they are thinning out Odessa defence by 1/10, the claim was there were around 400,000 defender (4 -6 Brigades + TDF) in the region, they are bringing them down to 300,000 and spare the troop for a push to Kherson.
> 
> So losing Snake Island may be detrimental to Russian on Kherson. Some western analyst started to make claim that Kherson is undefendable by the Russian in the current form. They need to thin out the troop in the East and redeploy them back to the South if they want to hold Kherson.


Ukrainian govt troops have retreated from lysychansk. 
Obviously my guess is right, you are wrong.

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> HIMARS is dead meat. Mi-28 N/NM kills it with Hermes NLOS missiles.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543223365372084224
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543290321911615490


That was a window and a roof. Didnt see any HIMARS. Im sure a russian propagandist would have access to a HIMARS hit, considering Russia destroy them at arrival.


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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JULY 2​Jul 2, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF
*
Kateryna Stepanenko, Karolina Hird, Frederick W. Kagan, and George Barros
July 2, 6:45 pm ET*​*Click here to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Ukrainian forces likely conducted a deliberate withdrawal from Lysychansk, resulting in the Russian seizure of the city on July 2.* Geolocated footage showed Russian forces casually walking around northern and southeastern neighborhoods in Lysychansk in a way that suggests that there are few or no remaining Ukrainian forces in the city as of July 2.[1] Ukrainian military officials did not publicly announce a troop withdrawal but neither did they report on defensive battles around Lysychansk. Ukrainian Internal Affairs Minister Vadym Denysenko vaguely noted that Russian forces have a “high probability” of capturing Lysychansk but that they will have a difficult time advancing in Donetsk Oblast past Slovyansk and Kramatorsk.[2] Ukrainian National Guard Spokesperson Ruslan Muzychuk rejected reports of Russian forces seizing and encircling Lysychansk, but these denials are likely outdated or erroneous.[3] The Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) Ambassador to Russia, Rodion Miroshnik, had previously claimed that Ukrainian forces began withdrawing from Lysychansk on June 28.[4] ISW will continue to monitor the situation.
*Russian forces will likely establish control over the remaining territory of Luhansk Oblast in coming days and will likely then prioritize drives on Ukrainian positions in Siversk before turning to Slovyansk and Bakhmut. *A Ukrainian withdrawal to Siversk would allow Ukrainian forces reduce the risk of immediate encirclement, but Ukrainian forces may continue a fighting withdrawal to a line near the E40 highway from Slovyansk to Bakhmut.
*The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed that Chief of the Russian General Staff Valery Gerasimov inspected Russian troop groupings in Ukraine on July 2.[5] *The Russian MoD posted a slideshow of images that reportedly prove that Gerasimov still holds his position as Chief of General Staff and that he had recently been in Ukraine, but notably did not include any video footage of Gerasimov’s purported inspection of Russian troops. This post was likely a response to recent speculation that Gerasimov had been removed from his post as part of the Kremlin’s purge of high-level Russian military leadership due to Russian failures in Ukraine. The Russian MoD amplified a claim that Ukrainian media has been lying about Gerasimov’s removal and stated that Gerasimov is still serving as the Chief of the General Staff.[6] The hasty presentation of a slideshow that does not clearly demonstrate that Gerasimov was recently performing his duties in Ukraine suggests that the Russian leadership is sensitive to rumors of a purge of senior Russian officers or possibly to the impression that the senior most officers are absent or uninvolved in the conflict. The Kremlin likely also seeks to retain or rebuild trust in Russian military leadership against the backdrop of major organizational restructuring, failures, and high casualties, as ISW has previously reported.[7]
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces entered Lysychansk and advanced within the city on July 2.*
*Russian forces are conducting offensive operations southwest of Lysychansk likely to push westward towards Siversk and complete the capture of the entirety of Luhansk Oblast.*
*Russian forces continued unsuccessful ground assaults north of Slovyansk.*
*Russian forces conducted limited attacks southwest of Donetsk City but did not make any confirmed gains.*
*Ukrainian troops are likely planning to threaten Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) throughout Kharkiv Oblast using Western-supplied weapons.*
*Ukrainian counterattacks and partisan activity continue to force Russian troops to prioritize defensive operations along the Southern Axis.*
*Proxy leadership may be setting conditions for the direct annexation of proxy republics by the Russian Federation.*
*



*
Click here to enlarge the map.
*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City;
Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis;
Mobilization and force generation efforts;
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine



*
Click here to enlarge the map.




Click here to enlarge the map.
*Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)
Russian forces entered Lysychansk and advanced within the city on July 2, likely after Ukrainian forces conducted a controlled withdrawal from the city. *Kremlin-sponsored outlet _RIA Novosti_ claimed that Russian forces seized Lysychansk, but it is unclear if Russian forces fully cleared and secured the city.[8] Geolocated footage showed Russian forces hanging a red banner in Lysychansk‘s city center and walking around the city’s northern neighborhood.[9] Chechen units also advanced to the southeastern part of Lysychansk, with geolocated footage showing them outside the Lysychansk City Council building.[10] The footage in both areas shows Russian forces freely walking around the city and taking group photos, suggesting that Ukrainian defenders had already withdrawn. Ukrainian officials did not announce a withdrawal from Lysychansk, but the Ukrainian General Staff notably did not discuss any Ukrainian defensive activity around Lysychansk.[11] Chechen Republic Head Ramzan Kadyrov claimed earlier in the day that Russian forces have encircled Ukrainian forces in Lysychansk and noted that Chechen units were preparing for street fights and full-scale attack to seize the city, but then announced that Russian forces had captured the city in full.[12] The inconsistencies in Kadyrov’s claims may suggest that Russian forces expected to face remaining Ukrainian resistance in the city but found that the Ukrainians had instead withdrawn.
*Russian forces continued to launch assaults southwest of Lysychansk, likely in an effort to reach the Luhansk Oblast administrative borders and push towards Ukrainian positions in Siversk.* The Ukrainian General Staff confirmed that Russian forces established positions in Verkhnokamyanka, situated approximately 15km southwest of Lysychansk and just 13km east of Siversk.[13] The successful assault also implies that Russian forces blocked the northeastern part of the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway (which ISW has assessed Ukraine has been unable to use as a major GLOC for some time). The Ukrainian General Staff also noted that Ukrainian forces repelled a Russian reconnaissance-in-force around Berestove, approximately 18km southeast of Siversk and 26km northeast of Bakhmut.[14] Recurrent Russian offensive and reconnaissance operations around Berestove and west of Lysychansk suggest that Russian forces may prioritize a drive on Siversk over an immediate attack on Bakhmut. The Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) also posted footage outside of the Pryvillya welcome sign, and a satellite image of a Russian pontoon bridge confirms that Russian forces crossed the Siverskyi Donets River just southeast of Kreminna.[15] The LNR Militia also repeated previous Russian claims that Russian forces seized Shepilove, 6km southwest of Pryvillya, on July 1.[16] Russian forces will likely also push on Siversk from the Pryvillya area now that they have advanced to Lysychansk itself.
*Russian forces conducted unsuccessful offensive operations north of Slovyansk on July 2. *The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces resisted a Russian assault on Bohorodychne, approximately 20km northwest of Slovyansk.[17] Slovyansk Mayor Vadym Lyakh reported that Russian forces shelled Slovyansk on the night of July 1, and Russian Telegram channel Voproste published footage of Russian forces reportedly using incendiary munitions against Ukrainian positions in the Slovyansk direction.[18] Geolocated combat footage additionally showed Ukrainian forces targeting Russian positions with drones and artillery in Sulyhivka (approximately 20 km east of Bohorodychne) on July 1, likely as part of continued Ukrainian counterattacks southwest of Izyum.[19]
*Russian forces resumed unsuccessful and limited attacks southwest of Donetsk City and continued artillery fire and airstrikes around Avdiivka.[20] *The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces unsuccessfully attempted to advance to Novomykhailivka.*[21]



*
Click here to enlarge the map.
*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum and prevent Ukrainian forces from reaching the Russian border)
Ukrainian forces plan to continue to threaten Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) running from Belgorod, Russia, to southern Kharkiv Oblast with Western-supplied long-range rocket artillery. *The Chief of Staff of the Ukrainian Kraken Special Unit, Konstiantyn Nemichev, stated that Ukrainian forces will use US-provided HIMARS rocket artillery systems to disrupt Russian GLOCs running through Vovchansk, Kupyansk, and Izyum. Kupyansk is a significant logistical hub for Russian forces operating on the Kharkiv axis and is located approximately 50km from the frontline. Vovchansk lies approximately 15-20 km from the frontline, but Russian operations in northern Kharkiv have prevented Ukrainian forces from targeting Vovchansk with indirect fire thus far. Russian GLOCs to Izyum are the most exposed, approximately 15km east of the nearest frontline, and NASA FIRMS heat anomaly detection has observed heat anomalies consistent with indirect fire attacks in wooded areas west of Izyum in recent weeks. Most Russian major ammunition depots and support stations along the Kharkiv axis would be within the range of HIMARS systems that would cover the Kharkiv axis.
*Russian forces continued localized and unsuccessful assaults northwest of Kharkiv City on June 1. *The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian attacks on Dementiivka, approximately 25km northwest of Kharkiv City.[22] Russian forces are reportedly using electronic warfare systems in settlements on the international border, likely aimed at disrupting systems at Ukrainian command and control centers.[23]




Click here to enlarge the map.
*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Russian objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)
Russian forces continued to focus on defensive operations along the Southern Axis on July 2.[24] *The Ukrainian General Staff stated that Ukrainian counteroffensive activity forced Russian troops to withdraw from previously-held positions in Ivanivka (northwestern Kherson Oblast).[25] Ukraine’s Zaporizhia Oblast Military Administration reported that Russian forces in Zaporizhia Oblast are preparing occupied settlements for ”circular” defense, which indicates that Russian troops are likely engineering 360-degree fortifications in occupied territory.[26] Ukrainian partisan and counteroffensive activities continue to pressure Russian forces to prioritize defensive operations, likely at the expense of Russian forces pursuing territorial gains in southern Ukraine.[27] Russian forces conducted air, artillery, and missile strikes against Ukrainian positions and infrastructure in Kherson, Mykolaiv, Zaporizhia, and Dnipropetrovsk Oblasts.[28]
*Mobilization and force generation efforts (Russian objective: expand combat power without conducting general mobilization)
Russian military leadership continues to rely on ad hoc composite units to support offensive operations in Ukraine. *Russian media reported on July 2 that a volunteer battalion of the 200th Motorized Rifle Brigade of the Northern Fleet is preparing to deploy to Ukraine.[29] This battalion consists of reservists, volunteers, military policemen, servicemembers from coastal defense units, and sailors from various naval vessels, which likely means that the volunteers are inadequately trained and do not have the requisite infantry experience to be effective in high-intensity combat. Some of the servicemembers of the battalion notably fought in the early stages of the war and are being redeployed.[30] The composite nature of this battalion indicates that Russian military leadership continues to struggle with proper and consistent constitution of combat-ready units.
*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)
Proxy leadership may be setting conditions for the direct annexation of proxy republics into the Russian Federation. *Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) Head Denis Pushilin announced on July 2 that he replaced four DNR public administration officials with “experienced” Russian ministers in order to institute the “Russian paradigm of public administration.”[31] Pushilin had previously announced the reorganization of the DNR government in June. The measures taken to streamline the governmental practices and frameworks of the DNR with the Russian system suggest that proxy officials are likely preparing to integrate the DNR directly into the Russian Federation.[32]

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

KediKesenFare said:


> @jhungary
> 
> I assume that Russia has decided to attack Odessa via land and not sea. This is why they have abandoned the Snake Island in the first place.



Ukranians had mined the entire coast of Odessa to prevent Russian amphibious assault. So only option left was by land only but Russian are fast losing Kherosan and will lose Crimea by end of july, 2022.

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## ckf

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Ukranians had mined the entire coast of Odessa to prevent Russian amphibious assault. So only option left was by land only but Russian are fast losing Kherosan and will lose Crimea by end of july, 2022.


Kherson is a trap to lure Ukraine army into open field to be annihilated by Russian artillery and airforce.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543367621063630849

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## MultaniGuy

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541791903754366977
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541832007658967040


But BRICS is a failure with India in it.

India should be kicked out of BRICS. Pakistan should fill in that seat.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543428485993168896

Ukrainian strike on Belgorod with Tochka ballistic missile.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543403841579786241

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543429122873069572

HIMARS strike on Russian air base in Melitopol

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543409785814614016

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543408737293066242

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543370249646608399


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Russias version of Goebbels has returned, flooding the threat with state sponsered stories, and whatever he believes master Putin seems fit.
> Youve made like 4-5 new post in a heart beat.
> 
> Ps. hows the HIMARS hunting going with the helicopters firing missiles from 100 km away?



HIMARS is 227 mm. Smerch is much bigger. Smerch is 300 mm. Guided Smerch round range up to 120 km.


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## Viet

ckf said:


> Can US keep donate weapons and finance Ukraine proxy war indefinetly? Not according to this poll which states 28% of American ready to take arms to fight the government, and we have midterm election coming in November. Biden's admin will be lame duck and no possibility of funding Ukraine next year.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/30/poll-americans-guns-against-government


War has own logics you don’t know when it ends once started. The Syria war started over 10y ago, can you tell when it will end?
When will Russia end the proxy war in Syria?
This war in Ukraine comes on top, the two war front will bleed out Russia. Don’t worry about the US fundings, as long as no US casualty Biden will not have any problem at all to get the money from the Congress.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> War has own logics you don’t know when it ends once started. The Syria war started over 10y ago, can you tell when it will end?
> When will Russia end the proxy war in Syria?
> This war in Ukraine comes on top, the two war front will bleed out Russia. Don’t worry about the US fundings, as long as no US casualty Biden will not have any problem at all to get the money from the Congress.



What does not kill you makes you stronger. War breeds strong nations. Without war a nation will decay and weaken. War increases a nation's birth rate and reduces a nation's average population age. In places where war is rampant, for example Africa, Afghanistan, Middle East, the population is young and vibrant. In places where there is no war, for example Western Europe, North America, the population is old and weak.

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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> What does not kill you makes you stronger. War breeds strong nations. Without war a nation will decay and weaken. War increases a nation's birth rate and reduces a nation's average population age. In places where war is rampant, for example Africa, Afghanistan, Middle East, the population is young and vibrant. In places where there is no war, for example Western Europe, North America, the population is old and weak.


Russia is not Rome. Putin has no allies. The only thing he gets is cheap anti-western rhetorics from Belarus, China, Cuba. Wars make Russia poorer. They waste the money. Tell me when Russia makes cars, computers, software, washing machines, shoes for the markets. But wait, Putin will invent a bigger flame gun that can burn people faster.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> Russia is not Rome. Putin has no allies. The only thing he gets is cheap anti-western rhetorics from Belarus, China, Cuba. Wars make Russia poorer. They waste the money. Tell me when Russia makes cars, computers, software, washing machines, shoes for the markets.



Russia is a vassal state of China. China backs Russia with whatever Russia needs. China is the oldest continuous civilization, the land of the two rivers, the world's most populous country, the biggest economy and the biggest military in the world.


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## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia is a vassal state of China. China backs Russia with whatever Russia needs. China is the oldest continuous civilization, the land of the two rivers, the world's most populous country, the biggest economy and the biggest military in the world.


What else to say, Russia is a chinese colony.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Viet said:


> What else to say, Russia is a chinese colony.



Vassal. Sort of like Vichy France was Nazi Germany's vassal.


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## ZeGerman

beijingwalker said:


> Russia struggles in the ground war, but it’s winning the energy war​Europe’s energy populism was based on plentiful Russian gas. Now Vladimir Putin is exploiting it to the hilt.
> 
> *Matthew Warren*Energy expert
> Jun 21, 2022 – 3.22pm
> 
> It might be summer in Europe but there’s a chill in Kyiv. Russia may not have won a decisive military victory in Ukraine, but it is winning the energy war.
> 
> Last week a posse of European political leaders visited Kyiv to duchess Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky. The body language was tense. French President Emmanuel Macron in a sharp suit, Zelensky in a military T-shirt. Smiles and rhetoric from the Europeans, a grim-faced Ukrainian president.
> 
> Europe’s military support has slowed to a trickle. They need this war to end. They can’t afford it to continue. Europe is facing serious energy shortages this winter in what could be a worsening of a year-long energy crisis.
> 
> Europe’s energy crisis has spread into global energy markets. Even energy-rich Australia has not been spared. Any coal and gas not contracted has been hoovered up by white-hot export markets, exacerbating energy shortages at home.
> 
> European leaders face a terrible moral dilemma in Ukraine, largely of their own making. The uncomfortable choices that await are the result of avoiding making uncomfortable choices over the past decade.
> 
> By taking the populist route on energy policy they have unwittingly ceded enormous strategic advantage to Russian President Vladimir Putin. He has been exploiting it, and he’s winning.
> 
> The war in Ukraine has always been linked to energy. Putin began to amass troops on the Ukraine border as the European energy shortage deteriorated. It was an act of brinkmanship to stop Ukraine from joining the NATO alliance that became a failed attempt at occupation.
> 
> 
> The fragility of Russia’s military capability has been exposed by the failure, at least in part offset by the potency of its use of energy as a strategic weapon.
> 
> Europe depends on Russia for 40 per cent of its gas. European gas imports have increased over the past decade to replace declining local production, to firm increased renewables and to help replace capacity from closing coal and nuclear generation.
> 
> The European Union was founded on the principle of co-dependency. The Treaty of Rome was signed in 1957 in the aftermath of World War II. The idea was that by making European economies co-dependent on each other, they would never be able to go to war with each other.
> 
> 
> European leaders have discovered their relationship with Russia is dependent, not co-dependent. They have become heavily reliant on Russia’s energy exports more than anything heading in the opposite direction.
> 
> Economic sanctions imposed on Russia are causing at least as much pain as they were designed to inflict. Europe’s energy shortage has worsened. Prices have increased. So lopsided is the relationship that Russia has still been able to force European utilities to pay for their gas in roubles, undermining the impact the sanctions were supposed to have.
> 
> Fig leaf on a peace deal​Last week, Macron, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz and Italian Prime Minister Mario Draghi were talking up including Ukraine, or at least whatever is left of it, as a possible new member. EU membership is likely to be one of the fig leafs on a Ukrainian peace deal they have been socialising since May. The Italian proposed deal starts with a ceasefire but, critically, ends with the wind down of all economic sanctions against Russia.
> 
> Despite the sanctions, Russia has continued to exploit its strategic advantage, cutting off supply to countries that refuse its commercial terms. It is now slowing gas flows to undermine attempts by European utilities to recharge their huge gas storages needed to maintain adequate supply in winter when gas and energy demand peaks.
> 
> That’s only six months away. The energy crisis might feel bad now, but it could get a lot worse yet.
> 
> The International Energy Agency has warned of energy rationing in Europe this winter, with particular anxiety around gas supply. This would not only push up energy prices but also slow industrial production, exacerbating already acute supply chain shortages.
> 
> The US State Department has been warning European governments of the strategic energy risk posed by Russia for the past decade. It wasn’t hard to see. Russia has repeatedly curtailed or halted energy exports, mostly in the middle of winter, to renegotiate terms and flex its influence.
> 
> German governments tried to avoid such risks by building direct gas pipelines into Russia. This has failed spectacularly. Russia is now slowing gas flowing along the first Nord Stream pipeline, while the second was suspended following the invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> After the Fukushima nuclear disaster in 2011 the German government accelerated the closure of its nuclear generators when they should have been building more. There are only two scalable sources of zero emissions energy: renewables and nuclear. It is hard to see how Germany, and most of Europe for that matter, can function in the 21st century without more of both of them.
> 
> The compromises needed now are uncomfortable. German coal generators are being brought back into service as survival trumps climate ambition. And the resilience of the Ukrainian people is rewarded with a peace deal where they are the only ones who give something up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia struggles in the ground war, but it’s winning the energy war
> 
> 
> Europe’s energy populism was based on plentiful Russian gas. Now Vladimir Putin is exploiting their dependence to the hilt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.afr.com


Very insightfull post. 

Several european countries have been sleeping regarding their energy dependance. The germans dropping nuclear was especially idiotic.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

For the first time Kiev regime kills Russians civilians on Russian soil. Oh they gonna pay. They gonna pay and they know it. There's a storm coming in.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543483204644093954

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## khansaheeb

Viet said:


> Norway gives one billion euros to Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Norwegen sagt Ukraine knapp eine Milliarde Euro weitere Hilfe zu
> 
> 
> Norwegen hat der Ukraine umgerechnet fast eine Milliarde Euro an weiteren Hilfsgeldern zugesagt. Die Zahlungen sollen sich über einen Zeitraum von zwei Jahren erstrecken.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tah.de


Better to keep the Ukrainians fighting the war in Ukraine than the war coming to Norway. Smart move by the Norweigens.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

khansaheeb said:


> Better to keep the Ukrainians fighting the war in Ukraine than the war coming to Norway. Smart move by the Norweigens.



If Norway wants to make enemy with Russia then so be it. Don't forget. Norway has 5 million people. Russia has 150 million people. The Norwegian people will suffer like being dragged through hell if Norway wants a war with Russia.

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## Viet

ZeGerman said:


> Very insightfull post.
> 
> Several european countries have been sleeping regarding their energy dependance. The germans dropping nuclear was especially idiotic.


That’s the problem if you believe to peaceful rise shit. Look Vietnam we never believe to chinese shit speeches. That’s why we survive not ending up in gas chambers. The west believed they can coexist with Russia. They believed Russia would never commit suicide. Merkel herself said she knew Putin wanted to destroy the west however she fully led Germany and Europe into the hands of a psychopath. Oh well maybe because she grew up in the East, communist pioneer, educated in Russia language.

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## khansaheeb

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543429122873069572
> 
> HIMARS strike on Russian air base in Melitopol


Russians getting taste of NATO weapons on Russian soil.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

khansaheeb said:


> Russians getting taste of NATO weapons on Russian soil.



This is a major escalation. I do think Russians will start targeting power plants, water filtration plants, dams from now on. Ukrainians will suffer what they have never suffered before. There's a storm coming in. 






The first time Kiev regime bombs a major Russian city and sealed its own fate. You know, Napoleon and Hitler were killed by Russians. You get my point.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543475225832181761


----------



## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> This is a major escalation. I do think Russians will start targeting power plants, water filtration plants, dams from now on. Ukrainians will suffer what they have never suffered before. There's a storm coming in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first time Kiev regime bombs a major Russian city and sealed its own fate. You know, Napoleon and Hitler were killed by Russians. You get my point.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543475225832181761


That’s already underway. There are pics of Ukraine eastern cities of Germany’s general staff, total destruction of everything by Russia army, every building is destroyed to the ground. 99 percent to rubbles. Putin wants that not even an animal will survive.


----------



## ZeGerman

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543429122873069572
> 
> HIMARS strike on Russian air base in Melitopol


@Tai Hai Chen 
Seems the HIMARS are hunting the helicopters instead


----------



## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> Ukrainian govt troops have retreated from lysychansk.
> Obviously my guess is right, you are wrong.


First of all









Lysychansk falls as Ukraine's military says its troops were forced to withdraw from city


The confirmation from Ukraine comes after Russian defence minister Sergei Shoigu told President Vladimir Putin that the city has been 'liberated'.




news.sky.com






Ukrainian forces withdraw from Lysychansk; Kyiv says Donbas battle not over




Live: Fight for Lysychansk intensifies, Russia accuses Ukraine of deadly shelling near border



Lysychansk has not yet fallen, Ukrainian had not retreated as of an hour ago.

Second of all.

I never said Lysychansk would not felt, I said Lysychansk defence can be held as long as until the following.

1.) Russian break out from Popasna and Threaten Bakhmut
2.) Russian threaten Sloviansk is under threat

This is what I said last Monday



jhungary said:


> Dude, if they hold the Russian for 2 months in Sieverodonetsk, you are talking about a better defensive position. How long can they hold depends on two things.
> 
> 1.) How long it takes for Russian to break out from Popasna and attack Bakhmut
> 2.) Sloviansk and Kramatorsk under threat.
> 
> They can probably hold that line indefinitely unless 1 or 2 break.
> 
> Again, you really should stop present yourself like a military person, because your "Prediction" is funny at best, illogical is probably the choice of my word.

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## jamahir

Iron Shrappenel said:


> Poseidon is something that makes you wonder how far will mankind go to kill each other...



Replying you now because I was banned until today.

You are correct. It saddens me about why many humans want to fight over petty, irrational things and very solveable things. What does any simple and rational person want really ? A society without crime, disharmony and social and socio-economic disparity and injustice, all big and small, all daily or otherwise ? A society where one shouldn't have to get into highly competitive rat race of college degrees and employment just to be able to marginally survive and "pay the bills" ? A society where one shouldn't have to be a wage slave to avail even basic necessities like housing, basic food, water, electricity, telecom, healthcare, education and public transport ? Why do so many governments maintain huge militaries that defend their own wrong internal systems which perpetuate socio-economics that impose wage slavery and anti-democracy on their own citizens and then think that they should violently promote their wrong systems on other societies ?


----------



## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> This is a major escalation. I do think Russians will start targeting power plants, water filtration plants, dams from now on. Ukrainians will suffer what they have never suffered before. There's a storm coming in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first time Kiev regime bombs a major Russian city and sealed its own fate. You know, Napoleon and Hitler were killed by Russians. You get my point.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543475225832181761


Russia is already waging fullblown war on Ukraine. Hows Ukraine targeting anything in Russia a major escalation? Russia is destroying everything on its way, so there is actually not much room for russian escalation.


----------



## Viet

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Vassal. Sort of like Vichy France was Nazi Germany's vassal.


Just a matter of months then the common Russians will ask where is all the money Putin gets from selling oil and gas? Why the living standard shrinks? Why all western companies have left? Where is McDonald’s?
Instead of holiday in France, Germany, Turkey, Vietnam, etc they now can only choose between Siberia gulags and chinese dream lands.


----------



## kingQamaR

If this is true, things are far worse for Ukraine than even the people accused of being Russian trolls even thought. This indicates the complete collapse of Ukraine's defence. Its just open countryside now all the way to Kiev.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543517520132554753


Viet said:


> Just a matter of months then the common Russians will ask where is all the money Putin gets from selling oil and gas? Why the living standard shrinks? Why all western companies have left? Where is McDonald’s?
> Instead of holiday in France, Germany, Turkey, Vietnam, etc they now can only choose between Siberia gulags and chinese dream lands.



Money is an American concept. You print it. America prints trillions of dollars a years. Causes inflation.

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## ZeGerman

kingQamaR said:


> If this is true, things are far worse for Ukraine than even the people accused of being Russian trolls even thought. This indicates the complete collapse of Ukraine's defence. Its just open countryside now all the way to Kiev.


How? Ukraine already did a counter in severodonetsk (not the smartest move i think), almost all russian offensive capabilities are aimed at lysishansk. Doing another “no cm back” defense is just a waste of troops.

Just fall back to bakhmut/sloviansk/kramatorsk line.

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## kingQamaR

It's sadly inevitable. As bad as the war is going for them, they are still gaining territory

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543515018276339716


kingQamaR said:


> It's sadly inevitable. As bad as the war is going for them, they are still gaining territory



Not surprising and kinda expected. Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. That's huge man power advantage.

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## zartosht

Damn Russia is steamrolling now. 

-Ruble best performing currency in the world
-Russia rapidly gaining and annexing territory with the best casus belli the west could have provided
-Russia making more money then pre-war
-Russia will dominate the black sea and the worlds grain supplies
-US in official recession, close to 10%inflation with rapidly declining living standards
-ukraine rapidly becoming a landlocked failed state thats lost all its industrial/agricultral areas/coast line

Meanwhile team west stronk celebrates

-Russia leaving a 1sqm km rock. Which it can re-occupy tommorow if it wanted
-some delusional counter-attack that will take back any annexed territory thats historically been russian, speak russian, and were only given to the soviet created “ukraine” as an internal administrive decision

Ukies brought CIA rats to the russian border, oppressed russians. Now they will pay a very heavy and well deserved price

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

There is no more Kiev regime soldier left in Luhansk oblast.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543568453646385153

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## kingQamaR

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543515018276339716
> 
> 
> Not surprising and kinda expected. Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. That's huge man power advantage.



If Lysychansk really has fallen, it's the beginning of the end for Ukraine. It was the last major city in the region. After Lysychansk there are no more big cities for Ukraine's troops to hide in, no more big groups of civilians to use as human shields. Its all small towns and open countryside all the way to Kiev. If its fallen, things are going MUCH worse for Ukraine than we're being told.

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## Beast

Viet said:


> That’s the problem if you believe to peaceful rise shit. Look Vietnam we never believe to chinese shit speeches. That’s why we survive not ending up in gas chambers. The west believed they can coexist with Russia. They believed Russia would never commit suicide. Merkel herself said she knew Putin wanted to destroy the west however she fully led Germany and Europe into the hands of a psychopath. Oh well maybe because she grew up in the East, communist pioneer, educated in Russia language.


Yet when Vietnam is a vassal state of China, did we gas you all and killed of your whole people? You are lucky your neighbor is not white american. Ask the red indian who wipe them off the map from USA.

It's a matter of time Vietnam come back and allied with China. Vietnam always will follow whoever are stronger. That is why you are vassal state of China for 400 years.

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## Wood




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## ckf

kingQamaR said:


> If Lysychansk really has fallen, it's the beginning of the end for Ukraine. It was the last major city in the region. After Lysychansk there are no more big cities for Ukraine's troops to hide in, no more big groups of civilians to use as human shields. Its all small towns and open countryside all the way to Kiev. If its fallen, things are going MUCH worse for Ukraine than we're being told.


Totally agree, but Russia hasn't committed enough troops in Ukraine and Ukraine is a big country, and unlikely to add any more because cost of the war would be unbearable as to the benefits. Kyiv would be very well supplied by Poland land bridge and would cost Russia dearly to take. Ukraine's strategic value to Nato/EU lies in the east and coastline of Ukraine. I doubt Putin try to capture whole of Ukraine. Ukraine has like 60k battle hardened well trained troops, battle in donbass cost them 200-500 death + casualties per day. That's like 45k in 3 month. When you send in your special ops + your best trained foreign legions to battle in Severondonesk to press for foreign aid during G7 + Nato summit and goes horribly wrong, the only hope is for the new conscripts to perform like superstars. Kharkiv has more strategeic value than Odessa, if Putin decides to settle with EU/US, he might sacrifice Odessa since it has very little strategic value to Russia. Biden's admin is totally clueless to what to do in Ukraine with few strategic options left. To start a Nato war in Ukraine, he needs congress to pass war act, which will be a no go even for the democrats.

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## Beast

zartosht said:


> Damn Russia is steamrolling now.
> 
> -Ruble best performing currency in the world
> -Russia rapidly gaining and annexing territory with the best casus belli the west could have provided
> -Russia making more money then pre-war
> -Russia will dominate the black sea and the worlds grain supplies
> -US in official recession, close to 10%inflation with rapidly declining living standards
> -ukraine rapidly becoming a landlocked failed state thats lost all its industrial/agricultral areas/coast line
> 
> Meanwhile team west stronk celebrates
> 
> -Russia leaving a 1sqm km rock. Which it can re-occupy tommorow if it wanted
> -some delusional counter-attack that will take back any annexed territory thats historically been russian, speak russian, and were only given to the soviet created “ukraine” as an internal administrive decision
> 
> Ukies brought CIA rats to the russian border, oppressed russians. Now they will pay a very heavy and well deserved price


Don't worry! Western propaganda media will tell rest of all is rosy for western and Ukraine and they are winning.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

ckf said:


> Totally agree, but Russia hasn't committed enough troops in Ukraine and Ukraine is a big country, and unlikely to add any more because cost of the war would be unbearable as to the benefits. Kyiv would be very well supplied by Poland land bridge and would cost Russia dearly to take. Ukraine's strategic value to Nato/EU lies in the east and coastline of Ukraine. I doubt Putin try to capture whole of Ukraine. Ukraine has like 60k battle hardened well trained troops, battle in donbass cost them 200-500 death + casualties per day. That's like 45k in 3 month. When you send in your special ops + your best trained foreign legions to battle in Severondonesk to press for foreign aid during G7 + Nato summit and goes horribly wrong, the only hope is for the new conscripts to perform like superstars. Kharkiv has more strategeic value than Odessa, if Putin decides to settle with EU/US, he might sacrifice Odessa since it has very little strategic value to Russia. Biden's admin is totally clueless to what to do in Ukraine with few strategic options left. To start a Nato war in Ukraine, he needs congress to pass war act, which will be a no go even for the democrats.



Sure, Poland can supply. But Poland don't have unlimited tanks and artillery it can send. Poland sent all of its 200 T-72 which were promptly destroyed within weeks.

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## ckf

Beast said:


> Yet when Vietnam is a vassal state of China, did we gas you all and killed of your whole people? You are lucky your neighbor is not white american. Ask the red indian who wipe them off the map from USA.
> 
> It's a matter of time Vietnam come back and allied with China. Vietnam always will follow whoever are stronger. That is why you are vassal state of China for 400 years.


Vietnamese elite think like the Chinese and acts like the Chinese. Vietname politburo, economic policies, and institutional hierarchy are all copied from China. Viets has a love + hate relationship with China.

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## 925boy

Viet said:


> Norway gives one billion euros to Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Norwegen sagt Ukraine knapp eine Milliarde Euro weitere Hilfe zu
> 
> 
> Norwegen hat der Ukraine umgerechnet fast eine Milliarde Euro an weiteren Hilfsgeldern zugesagt. Die Zahlungen sollen sich über einen Zeitraum von zwei Jahren erstrecken.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tah.de


and you and i know money wont save a loser in war. Just like US lost Afghanistan and Iraq despite having infinite money...

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## ckf

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Sure, Poland can supply. But Poland don't have unlimited tanks and artillery it can send. Poland sent all of its 200 T-72 which were promptly destroyed within weeks.


EU/NATO can still send in massive amount of weapons + Ammo. Ukraine Army will have very short supply line and can get fuel from Poland as well. Much of western Ukraine and Kyiv will be a well defended fortress. Ultimate Russian goals is to build a buffer zone in east Ukraine. Kyiv has significant politcal capital to EU and US to save face in negotiations, but very little strategic value to Russia. Putin already called this a special operation and not a war, so he's already decided to limit the war.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542260980436049922
Russia now well over 4,500 losses

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## _Nabil_

kingQamaR said:


> If Lysychansk really has fallen,


I only believe our keyboard strategists on PDF, they said Lysychansk is on a hill, easily defendable, will never fall, will be the cemetery of Russian circonscripts, bla bla bla ....

So no, Lysychansk haven't fallen 😂🤣😁 and will not 😝

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542260980436049922
> Russia now well over 4,500 losses



Russia has 4 times the population of Ukraine. Russia can afford to sacrifice 10 million people to retake Donbas. Ukraine cannot afford to sacrifice 10 million people.


----------



## Paul2

kingQamaR said:


> If Lysychansk really has fallen, it's the beginning of the end for Ukraine. It was the last major city in the region. After Lysychansk there are no more big cities for Ukraine's troops to hide in, no more big groups of civilians to use as human shields. Its all small towns and open countryside all the way to Kiev. If its fallen, things are going MUCH worse for Ukraine than we're being told.



A big problem for Ukrainians is exactly so many small towns in the east which Russian forces can hop in between, while evading detection, and artillery fire.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Paul2 said:


> A big problem for Ukrainians is exactly so many small towns in the east which Russian forces can hop in between, while evading detection, and artillery fire.



Taking villages to surround cities. Same tactics used by CCP in Chinese civil war.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542832982569934851
Russia is barely gaining any ground, at the cost of massive losses. Another reality check for the Russian trolls

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543569075925819394


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542832982569934851
> Russia is barely gaining any ground, at the cost of massive losses. Another reality check for the Russian trolls



Kiev regime just lost Luhansk oblast. A region of more than 2 million people. Kiev regime has less than 40 million people. Russia by now has more than 150 million people.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543560658373033984


----------



## kingQamaR

Paul2 said:


> A big problem for Ukrainians is exactly so many small towns in the east which Russian forces can hop in between, while evading detection, and artillery fire.



Lysychansk is surrounded by hills. The Ukr.ainians can see everything, and maybe pick them off one by one or trap and contain this Russian force in there from further advances or breaking out from the city into Ukraine hinder land of villages and towns. Im Afraid ,the Russian army doctrine, is simply flatten or destroy these towns villages when encountering them to avoid heavy casualties Ukraine will be like Germany ww2 retreating against superior odds


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543556286754836480

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543555628395859968


kingQamaR said:


> Lysychansk is surrounded by hills. The Ukr.ainians can see everything, and maybe pick them off one by one or trap and contain this Russian force in there from further advances or breaking out from the city into Ukraine hinder land of villages and towns. Im Afraid ,the Russian army doctrine, is simply flatten or destroy these towns villages when encountering them to avoid heavy casualties Ukraine will be like Germany ww2 retreating against superior odds



Hills are less of a strategic value in modern war. Hills are easily attacked by air power.

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## ckf

Paul2 said:


> A big problem for Ukrainians is exactly so many small towns in the east which Russian forces can hop in between, while evading detection, and artillery fire.


These towns and cities has industrial complexes with Concrete shelters, and the geography has rivers, hills, forest and gullies as natural barriers to stop tank columns. Each towns acts like nodes for logistics and cross fire support. A defensive line of attrition. Putin wanted Donbass and Luhansk as barrier against NATO. Americans/NATO has been supporting Ukraine since 2014 for exactly the same reason to gain foothold to Russia heartland. Luhansk and Donbass as industrial heartland also has a lot of economic value with abundant natural resources and easy access to black sea.

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## kingQamaR

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543556286754836480
> 
> 
> Hills are less of a strategic value in modern war. Hills are easily attacked by air power.



So far, we have not seen much of Russian Air Force in this conflict. Ukrainian air defences are mostly intact and are still flying planes 

Hills are they over look the city surrounding it you need to clear them of opposing forces to tighten your control to move to next objective


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543548350305378305


kingQamaR said:


> So far, we have not seen much of Russian Air Force in this conflict. Ukrainian air defences are mostly intact and are still flying planes
> 
> Hills are they over look the city surrounding it you need to clear them of opposing forces to tighten your control to move to next objective



Most attacks are done by choppers. While Ukraine air force might still have a few planes, their airbases are repeatedly bombed.


----------



## 925boy

kingQamaR said:


> It's sadly inevitable. As bad as the war is going for them, they are still gaining territory



to imply that a war can go good, is a paradox isnt it? which war has "gone good" for any major power in recent times? war means bad and bad means war, so they are inseparable...except for people who have this fantasy that the Ukrainian war would be like roses for Russia, which obv only exists in their warped minds.



kingQamaR said:


> Ukrainian air defences are mostly intact and are still flying planes


why u spewing propaganda on PDF?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

925boy said:


> why u spewing propaganda on PDF?



Just report that American troll.

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543560658373033984


Does that mean 3 ukrainians were defending Lycychansk? Kind of pathetic showing such a trophy.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543558243968028673


MeFishToo said:


> Does that mean 3 ukrainians were defending Lycychansk? Kind of pathetic showing such a trophy.



It's only some of the trophies. The Javelin will be compared to HJ-12 which Russia bought from China.

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## kingQamaR

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543548350305378305
> 
> 
> Most attacks are done by choppers. While Ukraine air force might still have a few planes, their airbases are repeatedly bombed.



We’ve had this discussion with you on this before many times, Kiev has been given by London , stormer missile launchers and anti -aircraft vehicles that unleash starstreak. There are lots video clips of this system shooting down Russians helicopters, and planes. Why you are saying , is not happening by Russia 
​


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> We’ve had this discussion with you on this before many times, Kiev has been given by London , stormer missile launchers and anti -aircraft vehicles that unleash starstreak. There are lots video clips of this system shooting down Russians helicopters, and planes. Why you are saying , is not happening by Russia
> ​



Airbases are bombed by Kh-101 air launched, range 3,000 km. Starstreak can't defend airbase from that.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543602334714011648

HIMARS at work

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia is never going to take Odessa.



After Russian armed forces and pro-Russian forces fully liberate Donbass, the South, including Odessa, will receive all of the attention it deserves. Right now, the entire LPR territory is liberated. The operation will go on to liberate the rest of the Donesk People's Republic in Ukrainian hands. Then the South will receive all of the attention at that point.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543602334714011648
> 
> HIMARS at work



HIMARS is tiny compared to Smerch. HIMARS is 227 mm. Smerch is 300 mm. GLONASS guided Smerch round range 120 km.



Viet said:


> 60k shells per day, every day. That’s lot. Russia ammo factories must run full speed. But seems they run out of high precision ammunitions, land missiles. they now even use Kh22 antiship missiles to target civil infra. As seen they hit a shopping mall. Putin’s goal is maximum terror.
> 
> View attachment 858634



Kh-32 is GLONASS guided. Very accurate.









Kh-32 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543527326411100160

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> After Russian armed forces and pro-Russian forces fully liberate Donbass, the South, including Odessa, will receive all of the attention it deserves. Right now, the entire LPR territory is liberated. The operation will go on to liberate the rest of the Donesk People's Republic in Ukrainian hands. Then the South will receive all of the attention at that point.



Russia controls less Ukrainian territory than it did in March and April, and managed only a .3% gain in June.

Russia is never taking Odessa.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543612916397735936

Another 4 HIMARS set to arrive in a couple weeks

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543406610143395840

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543177661215817728

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543574971464785922

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543580427629350913

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543591583924322304


F-22Raptor said:


> Russia is never taking Odessa.



There's a good western saying. Never say never. You are not a true American. You are just an African American who does not understand western philosophy.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543193301175656448

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543612916397735936
> 
> Another 4 HIMARS set to arrive in a couple weeks



HIMARS this, HIMARS that. You keep saying it for a whole month when Ukrainians lost the Luhansk Peoples Republics (LPR) for that whole month. The whole LPR has been liberated, kiddo.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543576356776181761


----------



## ckf

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia controls less Ukrainian territory than it did in March and April, and managed only a .3% gain in June.
> 
> Russia is never taking Odessa.


Did you not claim Russia will never take Lysachansk, western weapons will destroy Russian army and sanctions will bankrupt Russia? Your track record so far is pretty pathetic.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543602334714011648
> 
> HIMARS at work





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543595103721181185

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543587176415387655


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543612916397735936
> 
> Another 4 HIMARS set to arrive in a couple weeks






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543590490179637250


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543581454512406530


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543602334714011648
> 
> HIMARS at work




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543568453646385153

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543520277581152256

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543620170610102272


ckf said:


> Did you not claim Russia will never take Lysachansk, western weapons will destroy Russian army and sanctions will bankrupt Russia? Your track record so far is pretty pathetic.



Ignore him. He's just an American troll.


----------



## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543527326411100160


Oh we know. Russia has shown to be an agressive enemy that will lose its biggest customers (the EU). Which will hurt russia immensely once prices settle down (after corona disruptions and market settle)

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543620516220735489


ZeGerman said:


> Oh we know. Russia has shown to be an agressive enemy that will lose its biggest customers (the EU). Which will hurt russia immensely once prices settle down (after corona disruptions and market settle)



The EU is an enemy of Russia. Russia does not trade with the EU. Russia trades with China. China has 1.4 billion people, the oldest continuous civilization, the land of the two rivers, the world's biggest economy and the world's biggest military.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543557609621524482

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## The SC

Urgent | German Chancellor in an interview with US CBS: Putin will be able to continue the war in Ukraine for a long time..
@AJABreaking

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543612916397735936
> 
> Another 4 HIMARS set to arrive in a couple weeks




Your "*muh HIMARS*" story is getting old, kiddo, and aint nobody is falling for it. Now, get over these lame claims. They're just going to end up with the same way that your old claims of Eagle and Phoenix drones ended up: The victorious Russian forces will neutralize your "muh HIMARS" as well,.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543558989459427329

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

The SC said:


> Urgent | German Chancellor in an interview with US CBS: Putin will be able to continue the war in Ukraine for a long time..
> @AJABreaking



You ain't seen nothing yet. This war is permanent, just like covid-19 is a permanent pandemic.


----------



## F-22Raptor

ckf said:


> Did you not claim Russia will never take Lysachansk, western weapons will destroy Russian army and sanctions will bankrupt Russia? Your track record so far is pretty pathetic.



I never said they'd never take Lysachansk. 

Western weapons are indeed destroying the Russian military. A third of the Russian armored force is destroyed in 4 months. Russia controls less territory than it did in April.

Russia GDP will decline upwards of 10% in 2022 and another decline in 2023, with inflation approaching 20%.
The Russian economy is wrecked and its prospects over the long term are bleak.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> I never said they'd never take Lysachansk.
> 
> Western weapons are indeed destroying the Russian military. A third of the Russian armored force is destroyed in 4 months. Russia controls less territory than it did in April.
> 
> Russia GDP will decline upwards of 10% in 2022 and another decline in 2023, with inflation approaching 20%.
> The Russian economy is wrecked and its prospects over the long term are bleak.



GDP is man made. Just ask the Americans. Americans print trillions of dollars. Russia does the same. Russia has no shortage of money. Sure. Inflation. But who the hell cares.


----------



## Dalit

F-22Raptor said:


> I never said they'd never take Lysachansk.
> 
> Western weapons are indeed destroying the Russian military. A third of the Russian armored force is destroyed in 4 months. Russia controls less territory than it did in April.
> 
> Russia GDP will decline upwards of 10% in 2022 and another decline in 2023, with inflation approaching 20%.
> The Russian economy is wrecked and its prospects over the long term are bleak.



Changing your arguments all of a sudden?

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543620170610102272

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543597134489976833

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543592181470044161

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543585444834807808

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## F-22Raptor

Dalit said:


> Changing your arguments all of a sudden?



I've been practically dead on this entire war. I've said since May that the summer campaign was all about attriting Russian offensive capability. A 0.3% territorial gain for Russia in June just confirms that.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> I never said they'd never take Lysachansk.
> 
> Western weapons are indeed destroying the Russian military. A third of the Russian armored force is destroyed in 4 months. Russia controls less territory than it did in April.
> 
> Russia GDP will decline upwards of 10% in 2022 and another decline in 2023, with inflation approaching 20%.
> The Russian economy is wrecked and its prospects over the long term are bleak.




Source: Trust me bro. "I just made them up. Losing the whole LPR is what driving me to come up with those whole unfounded claims."

Ok we heard you @F-22Raptor

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543630238650978305


F-22Raptor said:


> I've been practically dead on this entire war. I've said since May that the summer campaign was all about attriting Russian offensive capability. A 0.3% territorial gain for Russia in June just confirms that.



Population matters. Empty land. Not so much.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543506956996034560

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543548069534384129

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543483204644093954

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543393441962418178

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543395836754857990

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Source: Trust me bro.




I still remember when your type were m**********g to the 40km Russian column outside Kyiv back in March. I said they'd never take Kyiv or come close to it. I was dead on.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543615189244907522


F-22Raptor said:


> I still remember when your type were m**********g to the 40km Russian column outside Kyiv back in March. I said they'd never take Kyiv or come close to it. I was dead on.



So? The US failed to take Beijing in 1949 even though the US had nuclear weapons and China did not. That makes the US a loser for making a strategic blunder like that.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> I still remember when your type were m**********g to the 40km Russian column outside Kyiv back in March. I said they'd never take Kyiv or come close to it. I was dead on.




That whole 40KM-long Russian column achieved its aim: Drive many Ukrainian forces from South and East of Ukraine. Cities like Mariupol, Kherson, and others were seized because Ukrainians tried to defend Kiev and poured huge resources to it.

You need to understand that there is no timetable on the Russians. They'll take Donbass. They'll seize South, including Odessa. And they'll open the corridor to Transnistria.

Meanwhile, your stories will keep changing from providing air force to Ukrainians, to Eagle and Phoenox suicide drones, to "*muh HIMARS*", to who knows what you'll claim.....

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> That whole 40KM-long Russian column achieved its aim: Drive many Ukrainian forces from South and East of Ukraine. Cities like Mariupol, Kherson, and others were seized because Ukrainians tried to defend Kiev and poured huge resources to it.
> 
> You need to understand that there is no timetable on the Russians. They'll take Donbass. They'll seize South, including Odessa. And they'll open the corridor to Transnistria.



Yup. Russia Ukraine war started in 2014 and will take hundreds if not thousands more years. After @F-22Raptor has died of old age, the war is still going on.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543408674122743809

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543409785814614016

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543319906384502787

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543591730112602113

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543570327388692482
"Much HIMARs" can't help here.



F-22Raptor said:


> Russia controls less Ukrainian territory than it did in March and April, and managed only a .3% gain in June.
> 
> Russia is never taking Odessa.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543621720996970501
Busted

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543543395376926720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543527326411100160

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543475943297122304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543622156000583684

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> That whole 40KM-long Russian column achieved its aim: Drive many Ukrainian forces from South and East of Ukraine. Cities like Mariupol, Kherson, and others were seized because Ukrainians tried to defend Kiev and poured huge resources to it.
> 
> You need to understand that there is no timetable on the Russians. They'll take Donbass. They'll seize South, including Odessa. And they'll open the corridor to Transnistria.
> 
> Meanwhile, your stories will keep changing from providing air force to Ukrainians, to Eagle and Phoenox suicide drones, to "*muh HIMARS*", to who knows what you'll claim.....




The Russians got annihilated at Kyiv. The rate of Russian losses there were absurd. They completely failed in Kyiv and the North.

The Russians control less territory now than in April. Thats the reality. All those weapons are serving their purpose in destroying Russian armored forces. They've lost a third of their entire armored force in 4 months. 

They will never take Odessa. They can't even take Mykolaiv which is half the size of Odessa. 

You still don't get it. I've said from the beginning this is all about exhausting the Russian military to the point where their scraping every last depot. This is the long term strategic interest of the US. The Pentagon now labels Russia as an acute problem, and not a long term threat.

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543620516220735489
> 
> 
> The EU is an enemy of Russia. Russia does not trade with the EU. Russia trades with China. China has 1.4 billion people, the oldest continuous civilization, the land of the two rivers, the world's biggest economy and the world's biggest military.


EU is Russias leading trade partner, twice the amount than tradings with China. Yet in your parallel universe Russia doesnt trade with EU..



Tai Hai Chen said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543558243968028673
> 
> 
> It's only some of the trophies. The Javelin will be compared to HJ-12 which Russia bought from China.


To bad russian weapons is of no interest. Lots to investigate, slightly burned, but still.


----------



## ckf

ZeGerman said:


> Oh we know. Russia has shown to be an agressive enemy that will lose its biggest customers (the EU). Which will hurt russia immensely once prices settle down (after corona disruptions and market settle)


U know market economy/trade is always reciprocal, Russia provided EU with cheap resources for industrial production and Russia gained from EU goods and services. A breakdown of trade is self mutilation. Even if you take out energy spot prices, cost of freight, insurance and handling will make EU energy cost much more expensive than rest of the world. EU in the long run gains 1-2 % inflation which equals to 1-2 % cost of capital, Russia economy will be mired in economic slump for the foreseeable future and will likely be dependant on China for a long time. China(selling consumer goods and technology to Russia) and US (selling oil and Lng to europe) laughing all the way to the bank. EU cannot win a war of attrition against Russia, Napoleon and Hitler tried.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543569075925819394

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543566140416397314

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543558863135309824

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543560385449558016

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543559671872724994

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543559352346443776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543558101860745216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543555628395859968

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543632171902050305

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543633436564414464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543634529939857410


MeFishToo said:


> EU is Russias leading trade partner



EU funded Euro Maidan riots which ousted president Yanukovych and started war in 2014. EU is directly responsible for the tragedy of MH17 and the loss of hundreds of innocent passengers. Because of this, Russia considers EU an enemy since 2014.


----------



## kingQamaR

Russians still need to capture Bakmuht, Kramtorsk, Slovyansk. They also need to remove land mines, round up lost soldiers, clear the rubble and regroup and rearm. How long this will take is difficult to predict, because it depends on the morale of both sides. The most worrying part is Ukraine's High Command is being run by politics instead of by Military Logic


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

kingQamaR said:


> Russians still need to capture Bakmuht, Kramtorsk, Slovyansk. They also need to remove land mines, round up lost soldiers, clear the rubble and regroup and rearm. How long this will take is difficult to predict, because it depends on the morale of both sides. The most worrying part is Ukraine's High Command is being run by politics instead of by Military Logic



Rebels hold the vast majority of population in Donetsk oblast, including the capital city. In Donetsk oblast Kiev regime troops are outnumbered at least 4 to 1 by rebels and Russian troops. Bakmut will be difficult for Kiev regime troops to defend and should fall within the month.

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## Iron Shrappenel

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543637242735984641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543646444430696449

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Iron Shrappenel said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543637242735984641
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543646444430696449



I think these artillery pieces are easy prey for recon / attack drones like Orion.









Kronshtadt Orion - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## Iron Shrappenel

Seems like the Norwegian one...


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543554241977094144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543548940364161024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543548350305378305

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543547447338835968

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Iron Shrappenel said:


> View attachment 858905
> View attachment 858906
> View attachment 858907
> 
> Seems like the Norwegian one...



Wow. These new ZALA drones have really sharp video.


----------



## jhungary

_Nabil_ said:


> I only believe our keyboard strategists on PDF, they said Lysychansk is on a hill, easily defendable, will never fall, will be the cemetery of Russian circonscripts, bla bla bla ....
> 
> So no, Lysychansk haven't fallen 😂🤣😁 and will not 😝



It's not my problem you micks can't read




jhungary said:


> Dude, if they hold the Russian for 2 months in Sieverodonetsk, you are talking about a better defensive position. *How long can they hold depends on two things.
> 
> 1.) How long it takes for Russian to break out from Popasna and attack Bakhmut
> 2.) Sloviansk and Kramatorsk under threat.*
> 
> They can probably hold that line indefinitely unless 1 or 2 break.
> 
> Again, you really should stop present yourself like a military person, because your "Prediction" is funny at best, illogical is probably the choice of my word.



Go back and read my post before, I said you can't take Lysychansk with a frontal assault. That does not mean the city cannot be taken.. Someone here need to learn how to read


----------



## Iron Shrappenel

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Wow. These new ZALA drones have really sharp video.


Do they also have French origin optics ?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

jhungary said:


> It's not my problem you micks can't read



The tide is turning on the Kiev regime in Donbas. With the loss of Luhansk oblast, Kiev regime soldiers in Donbas are vastly outnumbered, at least 4 to 1. And it's only going to go downhill for them from here on out as they continue to lose this place one day, lose that place the next. Time is on Russia's side. As time passes, Russians become stronger, Kiev regime becomes weaker.



Iron Shrappenel said:


> Do they also have French origin optics ?



Nope. 





__





ZALA Aero Group - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## Iron Shrappenel

I


Tai Hai Chen said:


> The tide is turning on the Kiev regime in Donbas. With the loss of Luhansk oblast, Kiev regime soldiers in Donbas are vastly outnumbered, at least 4 to 1. And it's only going to go downhill for them from here on out as they continue to lose this place one day, lose that place the next. Time is on Russia's side. As time passes, Russians become stronger, Kiev regime becomes weaker.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ZALA Aero Group - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


It doesn't discuss optics


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Iron Shrappenel said:


> It doesn't discuss optics



Russia makes EO for its drones.









UAV Forpost-R Receives Laser Illumination Optoelectronic System


At the <i>Army-2019</i> forum, <i>NPP Airborne & Marine Electronics</i> presented the gyro-stabilized optoelectronic system <i>GOES-4</i> equipped with the Russian-made two-wave laser rangefinder/illuminator. The payload is to be supplied to <i>Ural Works of Civil Aviation</i> for the unmanned...



mil.today

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## aziqbal

so Russia has taken all of Luhansk by taking Lysychansk 

now they will to Kramatorsk


----------



## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians got annihilated at Kyiv. The rate of Russian losses there were absurd. They completely failed in Kyiv and the North.
> 
> The Russians control less territory now than in April. Thats the reality. All those weapons are serving their purpose in destroying Russian armored forces. They've lost a third of their entire armored force in 4 months.
> 
> They will never take Odessa. They can't even take Mykolaiv which is half the size of Odessa.
> 
> You still don't get it. I've said from the beginning this is all about exhausting the Russian military to the point where their scraping every last depot. This is the long term strategic interest of the US. The Pentagon now labels Russia as an acute problem, and not a long term threat.



Russians got annihilated indeed on the Kyiv,Chernihiv and Sumy fronts it wasn't to divert Ukrainian forces,Russians only found an excuse to justify their pathetic performance,just like they left "as a goodwill" snake island.

Reality is the Russian army despite amassing huge ressources of troops and artillery in the Donbass could barely advance something like 20km in months and lost entire BTGs in the proecess yet some smokers here believe they'll take cities like Kharkiv,Odessa,Mykolaiv. Pipe dreams.

Meanwhile as Ukraine receive even more modern weapons especially artillery,they are already decimating Russian ammo depots,command centers and concentration of troops thanks to the likes of Himars.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543544090406658048

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543517037112311811

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543517040849391616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543516751786303493

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## ckf

Vergennes said:


> Russians got annihilated indeed on the Kyiv,Chernihiv and Sumy fronts it wasn't to divert Ukrainian forces,Russians only found an excuse to justify their pathetic performance,just like they left "as a goodwill" snake island.
> 
> Reality is the Russian army despite amassing huge ressources of troops and artillery in the Donbass could barely advance something like 20km in months and lost entire BTGs in the proecess yet some smokers here believe they'll take cities like Kharkiv,Odessa,Mykolaiv. Pipe dreams.
> 
> Meanwhile as Ukraine receive even more modern weapons especially artillery,they are already decimating Russian ammo depots,command centers and concentration of troops thanks to the likes of Himars.


If Russians are annihilated, then why is Ukrainian retreating from Luhansk? So since successful defense of Kyiv, Kherson captured, Mariupol fell, Severodonetsk gone, and Lysychansk abandoned. What signs are there that says Russia will be stopped? War is not a video game. Time is relative/results matter and not emotional verbiage. 9/11 attack only really affected mahattan, and probably less than 3 square km of land, yet its impact was global, and affected us policies for decades. So using x kms in months and lost x battlions/entire BTGs matters very little when you are fighting a war of attrition vs Russian Army. Ukraine has to defend the west/kyiv as well as launch an offensive to recapture eastern Ukraine. Chances are not good especially when Ukrainian leadership is failing badly to withdraw at severodonetsk after Popsna fell and allowing Ukraine's best troops to be decimated at the region. Zelensky replacing top Ukrainian military command contributed to this malaise. A war led by a comedian will be comical much like your comments.

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## kingQamaR

Vergennes said:


> Russians got annihilated indeed on the Kyiv,Chernihiv and Sumy fronts it wasn't to divert Ukrainian forces,Russians only found an excuse to justify their pathetic performance,just like they left "as a goodwill" snake island.
> 
> Reality is the Russian army despite amassing huge ressources of troops and artillery in the Donbass could barely advance something like 20km in months and lost entire BTGs in the proecess yet some smokers here believe they'll take cities like Kharkiv,Odessa,Mykolaiv. Pipe dreams.
> 
> Meanwhile as Ukraine receive even more modern weapons especially artillery,they are already decimating Russian ammo depots,command centers and concentration of troops thanks to the likes of Himars.



So in over 3 months Russia's huge armed forces have just about by the skin of their teeth managed to captrure a small part of the country he expected to completely overrun in a fortnight? Most impressive - not. And for 'liberated' read 'reduced to a post-apocalyptic wasteland

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## mulj

Like it or not russkies are winning the war despite losses, recklessness on tactical level and stiff resistance by ukrainians, all weapons and equipment recieved by west provided them capabilities for not sinking completely, they need tanks, airplanes, attack helicopters and they need it like right now to increase their chances for more effective defense and possible enemy gains reversing to bring them to negotiation table with more favorable outcome for Ukraina.
I think that continous grinding war for them is lost in advance if the scope of current and near future material/equipment supply rate remains same like today despite their showed morale and willing to fight.

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## ZeGerman

ckf said:


> U know market economy/trade is always reciprocal, Russia provided EU with cheap resources for industrial production and Russia gained from EU goods and services. A breakdown of trade is self mutilation. Even if you take out energy spot prices, cost of freight, insurance and handling will make EU energy cost much more expensive than rest of the world. EU in the long run gains 1-2 % inflation which equals to 1-2 % cost of capital, Russia economy will be mired in economic slump for the foreseeable future and will likely be dependant on China for a long time. China(selling consumer goods and technology to Russia) and US (selling oil and Lng to europe) laughing all the way to the bank. EU cannot win a war of attrition against Russia, Napoleon and Hitler tried.


Yeah like i mentioned in an early post. Europe and russia only lose from this infighting. 

Usa and china gain.


----------



## Elvin

Is there a reason we are seeing soo many posts from Spiter's account from Twitter? Obviously they are a kremlin paid propagantist.

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## ckf

jhungary said:


> It's not my problem you micks can't read
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go back and read my post before, I said you can't take Lysychansk with a frontal assault. That does not mean the city cannot be taken.. Someone here need to learn how to read


But a frontal assault did happen by Chechens. LOL Ukrainian didn't even fight in Lysychansk, they did the honorable thing by running away from battle.

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## Elvin

mulj said:


> Like it or not russkies are winning the war despite losses, recklessness on tactical level and stiff resistance by ukrainians, all weapons and equipment recieved by west provided them capabilities for not sinking completely, they need tanks, airplanes, attack helicopters and they need it like right now to increase their chances for more effective defense and possible enemy gains reversing to bring them to negotiation table with more favorable outcome for Ukraina.
> I think that continous grinding war for them is lost in advance if the scope of current and near future material/equipment supply rate remains same like today despite their showed morale and willing to fight.



Yea I think it is expected that Russia will take some lands, especially lands where Russian speaking people live. However, the goal here is to run down the Russian military, their losses in equipment in the past 4 months is INSANE, as well as personnel losses. If this war drags out another 4 months Russia would lose over half of it's tanks, IFVs, etc. The other is that Kiev will not surrender those lands and will keep carrying out operations against them, thereby, keeping the Russians constantly busy and under pressure.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543612033505140737
Russian civilian casualties in Belgorod as air defenses downed one or more ukrainian missiles.

Melitopol russian ammunition storage apparently destroyed by a HIMARS strike at the airport.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543503252809043968

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## Elvin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543173290658861059


----------



## ckf

Elvin said:


> Yea I think it is expected that Russia will take some lands, especially lands where Russian speaking people live. However, the goal here is to run down the Russian military, their losses in equipment in the past 4 months is INSANE, as well as personnel losses. If this war drags out another 4 months Russia would lose over half of it's tanks, IFVs, etc. The other is that Kiev will not surrender those lands and will keep carrying out operations against them, thereby, keeping the Russians constantly busy and under pressure.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543612033505140737
> Russian civilian casualties in Belgorod as air defenses downed one or more ukrainian missiles.
> 
> Melitopol russian ammunition storage apparently destroyed by a HIMARS strike at the airport.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543503252809043968


Russia is fighting an existential war while EU/US fights an economic depression. I put money on the determination of the Russians. Zelensky is the cowardly clown that has really drag the whole world into this mess by mercilessly throwing his people and army under the bus, just for fistful of dollars.

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## MeFishToo

ckf said:


> Russia is fighting an existential war while EU/US fights an economic depression. I put money on the determination of the Russians. Zelensky is the cowardly clown that has really drag the whole world into this mess by mercilessly throwing his people and army under the bus, just for fistful of dollars.


Are you serious? Honestly, how is this a russian existential war?


----------



## ZeGerman

jhungary said:


> It's not my problem you micks can't read
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go back and read my post before, I said you can't take Lysychansk with a frontal assault. That does not mean the city cannot be taken.. Someone here need to learn how to read


Werent the ukranians better off defending lysychansk then going so heavy trying to hold/delay in severodonetsk?

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## mulj

Elvin said:


> Yea I think it is expected that Russia will take some lands, especially lands where Russian speaking people live. However, the goal here is to run down the Russian military, their losses in equipment in the past 4 months is INSANE, as well as personnel losses. If this war drags out another 4 months Russia would lose over half of it's tanks, IFVs, etc. The other is that Kiev will not surrender those lands and will keep carrying out operations against them, thereby, keeping the Russians constantly busy and under pressure.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543612033505140737
> Russian civilian casualties in Belgorod as air defenses downed one or more ukrainian missiles.
> 
> Melitopol russian ammunition storage apparently destroyed by a HIMARS strike at the airport.


Right they are suffering losses, primarely in tanks but they have like 10.000 in reserve of those iron buckets and endless supply of ammunition of higher calibers which they use now on ukrainians untill saturation point and with that gain teritories and in contrary what probably most of the ukrainian supporters think time is not in favour of them as the russians are also adapting to the new conditions on front and with that make it even more difficult for them to contain enemy.
At the end of the day ukrainians need to fire out at least one shell more then russians as they will not aquire substanital quality edge of their armed forces over russian in near future if ever.

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## The SC



Reactions: Like Like:
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## ckf

MeFishToo said:


> Are you serious? Honestly, how is this a russian existential war?


Not me, Putin thinks Russia is fighting an existential war in Ukraine as much as the Ukrainians are. John Mccain and Lindsey Graham openly endorse this proxy war. Why is America so interested in Ukraine? America using Ukraine to disrupt Europe unity, and threaten Russian heartland. Now we are at the edge of a precipice.








A US-Backed, Far Right–Led Revolution in Ukraine Helped Bring Us to the Brink of War


In 2014 Ukraine, great power gamesmanship, righteous anger at a corrupt status quo, and opportunistic far-right extremists toppled the government in the Maidan Revolution. Today’s crisis in Ukraine can’t be understood without understanding Maidan.




jacobin.com


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## MeFishToo

ZeGerman said:


> Werent the ukranians better off defending lysychansk then going so heavy trying to hold/delay in severodonetsk?


Lysychansk was lost when Russia made the breakthrough in Popasna. But Ukraine is bound to defend, because that is the only advantage they have. We are not going to see any major offensive operations from Ukraine in the near future , if ever.
Ukraine have demonstrated a will to fight. The west is going to reward Ukraine with even more powerful weapons, and eventually Ukraine is going to stop the russian advance because of that. And then, maybe ukrainian resistance will force Russia to retreat. Not because of some major ukrainian offensive, but because Russia is going to give in.


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## kingQamaR

It's amazing how few understand that territory changes hands all the time in war. The bigger picture, over time, is what really matters. That said, it's not quite as good for headlines.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543671412812124163

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543669019189952512

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543668842328735744

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543668688171286530

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## MeFishToo

ckf said:


> Not me, Putin thinks Russia is fighting an existential war in Ukraine as much as the Ukrainians are. John Mccain and Lindsey Graham openly endorse this proxy war. Why is America so interested in Ukraine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A US-Backed, Far Right–Led Revolution in Ukraine Helped Bring Us to the Brink of War
> 
> 
> In 2014 Ukraine, great power gamesmanship, righteous anger at a corrupt status quo, and opportunistic far-right extremists toppled the government in the Maidan Revolution. Today’s crisis in Ukraine can’t be understood without understanding Maidan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jacobin.com


You and I, just like any sane person, know Russia is not fighting an existential war in _Ukraine_. Russia is fighting a war of expansionism. The west is supporting the ukrainian existential war, because russian expansionism is considered a threat to the west, mainly Europe.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543666706312318976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543657693444972546

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543682999216214017

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543674461735604224

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## F-22Raptor

MeFishToo said:


> Lysychansk was lost when Russia made the breakthrough in Popasna. But Ukraine is bound to defend, because that is the only advantage they have. We are not going to see any major offensive operations from Ukraine in the near future , if ever.
> Ukraine have demonstrated a will to fight. The west is going to reward Ukraine with even more powerful weapons, and eventually Ukraine is going to stop the russian advance because of that. And then, maybe ukrainian resistance will force Russia to retreat. Not because of some major ukrainian offensive, but because Russia is going to give in.



The US is going to force Russia to scrape every last depot it has until it’s forced to give up. Russias ability to maneuver will eventually collapse. It barely gains territory today.

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## Elvin

Some like to blame Zelensky for the war, but refuse to realize that 70% of Ukraine wants to be independent and decide their own future via democratic institutions. I don't support Zelensky as I think he is showing signs of a potential dictator down the road, but to say it is simply one person to blame for Russia's invasion is elementary thinking. Ukraine was peaceful all the while Moscow controlled it via puppet governments, and when the Ukrainian people set themselves free Russia annexed Crimea, instigated a war in the Donbas, used said instigation as a casus belli for the current invasion. I guess for some fighting back is equal to being attacked and supressed.

A good example and comparison - Ukraine was under indirect Russian control since 1991-2014, Poland decided to pursue an EU path. Ukraine was more developed and wealthy than Poland in 1991. Look at them today, Poland is light years ahead of Ukraine in every category, and they are independent and sovereign. Ukraine never was (1991-2014). 

There is no way to justify Russia's war on Ukraine, and to claim that Russians are fighting for their "existence" is funny, it is more like Putin and his inner circle are fighting for existence. 

The equipment losses Russia has sustained and will sustain is huge for them, billions in losses and they have to spend money to replenish their storage. Eventually money will run out especially when the western sanctions start to be felt in the next few months and especially years. Not to mention the EU decoupling from Russian gas which is yet to be felt.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543646996111757316

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543638266590773249

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543640694471987201

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543555864673779713

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## MeFishToo

F-22Raptor said:


> The US is going to force Russia to scrape every last depot it has until it’s forced to give up. Russias ability to maneuver will eventually collapse. It barely gains territory today.


I agree. Russias offensive capabilities are limited. The need to mass the forces they have in small concentrated areas to make a breakthrough. I dont think they are able to do it for much longer. But Ukraine is barely able to hold the lines, and havent demonstrated any offensive capabilities other than counter attacts. I just dont see how Ukraine is going to defeat Russia by offensive operations, unless they are given some major long lasting help by mainly USA.


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## ckf

MeFishToo said:


> You and I, just like any sane person, know Russia is not fighting an existential war in _Ukraine_. Russia is fighting a war of expansionism. The west is supporting the ukrainian existential war, because russian expansionism is considered a threat to the west, mainly Europe.


Why would Russia threaten western Europe, it's biggest customer, and Russian oligarchs assets are spread across Europe? If you look through out history, Europe has history of imperial ambition across the world and including Russia. You forgot Napoleonic wars, and WWII(if you really want to remember, french was fighting for colonial powers 70 years ago). Hong Kong wasn't given back to China till 25 years ago and they are complaining China's broken promises, which is totally ironic. US still has territories like Puerto Rico, Guam and you could argue Hawaii as well, which are essentially colonies. I would not argue against Russia having potential expansionist ambitions, and at the beginning felt this war is crazy and Putin is crazy. But having seen the West response, I really don't understand the logic of Donbas threaten Western Europe or NATO. Similar argument can be made of Georgia as well. Russia supporting Russians speaking population in Georgia and Donbas can only be considered border skimishes, but somehow Americans are turining it into a proxy war to destroy Russia.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543544473396846592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543339672096722955
https://twitter.com/Blue_Sauron/status/1543540502007537664?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1543540502007537664|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=

https://twitter.com/Blue_Sauron/status/1543540502007537664?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1543540502007537664|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Seems Russians are getting the hang of smashing M777 and M109. And it's all going downhill for the Kiev regime from here on out as more and more Russian drones become operational.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543637242735984641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543646444430696449


Elvin said:


> Some like to blame Zelensky for the war, but refuse to realize that 70% of Ukraine wants to be independent and decide their own future via democratic institutions. I don't support Zelensky as I think he is showing signs of a potential dictator down the road, but to say it is simply one person to blame for Russia's invasion is elementary thinking. Ukraine was peaceful all the while Moscow controlled it via puppet governments, and when the Ukrainian people set themselves free Russia annexed Crimea, instigated a war in the Donbas, used said instigation as a casus belli for the current invasion. I guess for some fighting back is equal to being attacked and supressed.
> 
> A good example and comparison - Ukraine was under indirect Russian control since 1991-2014, Poland decided to pursue an EU path. Ukraine was more developed and wealthy than Poland in 1991. Look at them today, Poland is light years ahead of Ukraine in every category, and they are independent and sovereign. Ukraine never was (1991-2014).
> 
> There is no way to justify Russia's war on Ukraine, and to claim that Russians are fighting for their "existence" is funny, it is more like Putin and his inner circle are fighting for existence.
> 
> The equipment losses Russia has sustained and will sustain is huge for them, billions in losses and they have to spend money to replenish their storage. Eventually money will run out especially when the western sanctions start to be felt in the next few months and especially years. Not to mention the EU decoupling from Russian gas which is yet to be felt.



If Ukrainians wanted democracy they would have chosen democratic election instead of rioting. They would have prevented war in 2014.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543681590735392769


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## Beny Karachun

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543646996111757316
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543638266590773249
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543640694471987201
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543555864673779713


Lol, the countless of videos of Ukrainians ambushing Russians with ATGMs show otherwise


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Beny Karachun said:


> Lol, the countless of videos of Ukrainians ambushing Russians with ATGMs show otherwise



True, but Russia has 150 million people compared to Ukraine has 37 million people. Russia can afford to sacrifice 10 million people to retake Donbas. Ukraine cannot afford to sacrifice that many people. Russia has HJ-12 anti tank missiles bought from China which is very effective on Ukrainian tanks.









HJ-12 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Beny Karachun

Tai Hai Chen said:


> True, but Russia has 150 million people compared to Ukraine has 37 million people. Russia can afford to sacrifice 10 million people to retake Donbas. Ukraine cannot afford to sacrifice that many people. Russia has HJ-12 anti tank missiles bought from China which is very effective on Ukrainian tanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HJ-12 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


It can afford to lose 10 million people but not arm them


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Beny Karachun said:


> It can afford to lose 10 million people but not arm them



Sure it can. Russia prints as much money as it wants, just like America prints as much money as it wants. Two can play at the game of printing money.


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## MeFishToo

ckf said:


> Why would Russia threaten western Europe, it's biggest customer, and Russian oligarchs assets are spread across Europe? If you look through out history, Europe has history of imperial ambition across the world and including Russia. You forgot Napoleonic wars, and WWII(if you really want to remember, french was fighting for colonial powers 70 years ago). US still has territories like Puerto Rico, Guam, which are essentially colonies. I would not argue against Russia having potential expansionist ambitions, and at the beginning felt this war is crazy and Putin is crazy. But having seen the West response, I really don't understand the logic of Donbas threaten Western Europe or NATO. Similar argument can be made of Georgia as well. Russia supporting Russians speaking population in Georgia and Donbas can only be considered border skimishes, but somehow Americans are turining it into a proxy war to destroy Russia.


Looking back in history, Russia is nothing but a long story of expansionism and imperialism. Pointing at european imperialism or american dominance doesnt justify any further russian imperial dreams on behalf of its neighboring countries.

Russia is not stopping at Donbas. There are russian speakers, or russian defined compatriots, waiting to be liberated all the way west to Germany and south to Iraq and Iran. Russia is going to buy, threaten or conquer its way to control it all. For decades Russia has supported anti EU parties and organizations in Europe, as well as following a strategy of re-imperialization in Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan.
Basicly EU support these countries rights to democratic transition, while Russia only reconize their limited sovereignty because they are considered Russias zone of interest. Russia understands national security as defensive expansion, so of course EU countries are threatend by Russia.

You were right about Putin being crazy. Look at a map - hows does a population of 140 million even justify holding a landmass like Russia, while arguing something was taken from them?

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> Looking back in history, Russia is nothing but a long story of expansionism and imperialism. Pointing at european imperialism or american dominance doesnt justify any further russian imperial dreams on behalf of its neighboring countries.
> 
> Russia is not stopping at Donbas. There are russian speakers, or russian defined compatriots, waiting to be liberated all the way west to Germany and south to Iraq and Iran. Russia is going to buy, threaten or conquer its way to control it all. For decades Russia has supported anti EU parties and organizations in Europe, as well as following a strategy of re-imperialization in Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan.
> Basicly EU support these countries rights to democratic transition, while Russia only reconize their limited sovereignty because they are considered Russias zone of interest. Russia understands national security as defensive expansion, so of course EU countries are threatend by Russia.
> 
> You were right about Putin being crazy. Look at a map - hows does a population of 140 million even justify holding a landmass like Russia, while arguing something was taken from them?



War is human nature. Every day since dawn of humanity 200,000 years ago there is war somewhere in the world. Russians is not the problem. Humans is the problem. Unless humans are eliminated from Earth, there will be war every day somewhere in the world. This is what Albert Einstein had to say about war.

“I do not know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but _World War IV_ will be fought with _sticks_ and stones.” – Albert _Einstein_.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543664805478809602

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543619164602073089

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543587176415387655

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543581454512406530

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543664175934836736

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## Beny Karachun

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Sure it can. Russia prints as much money as it wants, just like America prints as much money as it wants. Two can play at the game of printing money.


If only things worked like that lol.
Russia already resorts into using T62s and other Soviet arms


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Beny Karachun said:


> If only things worked like that lol.
> Russia already resorts into using T62s and other Soviet arms



T-62M is only for rebels. Russians use T-90M. Do you know what causes inflation? Printing money causes inflation. Printing money is the one and only cause of inflation. Because human greed has no limit, printing money has no limit, therefore inflation has no limit.


----------



## khansaheeb

Tai Hai Chen said:


> For the first time Kiev regime kills Russians civilians on Russian soil. Oh they gonna pay. They gonna pay and they know it. There's a storm coming in.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543483204644093954


We need a storm of peace not war. Why not negotiate peace now than later?


----------



## ckf

MeFishToo said:


> Looking back in history, Russia is nothing but a long story of expansionism and imperialism. Pointing at european imperialism or american dominance doesnt justify any further russian imperial dreams on behalf of its neighboring countries.
> 
> Russia is not stopping at Donbas. There are russian speakers, or russian defined compatriots, waiting to be liberated all the way west to Germany and south to Iraq and Iran. Russia is going to buy, threaten or conquer its way to control it all. For decades Russia has supported anti EU parties and organizations in Europe, as well as following a strategy of re-imperialization in Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan.
> Basicly EU support these countries rights to democratic transition, while Russia only reconize their limited sovereignty because they are considered Russias zone of interest. Russia understands national security as defensive expansion, so of course EU countries are threatend by Russia.
> 
> You were right about Putin being crazy. Look at a map - hows does a population of 140 million even justify holding a landmass like Russia, while arguing something was taken from them?


Great, crazy Europeans WASP want to duke it out against Russians orthodox, then go ahead. I couldn't care less, not my problem and will never be. The point is Russia is winning despite proxy war and heavy attrition. In Canada, we have 8% inflation as well, and Trudeau government equally inept as rest of these G7 idiots. West is in accelerating decline, and Canada at least has the natural resources to weather the storm. If you want to talk about population density, Canada and the Scandinavian countries has equally small population and large land masses than even Russia. Albeit at a smaller scale, so your argument about threat of Russia imperialism is just rubbish. Euro is tanking as we speak and Yen already took a horrific fall. Euro collapse has the potential to disintegrate EU all together. Germany tax payers will never bail out financially weak EU partners. If a tactical Nuclear bomb is dropped in Europe, Euro might be worth less than Viet Dong. You ask for it, be careful what u wish for.


----------



## khansaheeb

Russian advance in eastern Ukraine seen as big blow


Russian forces appeared to capture the eastern Ukrainian city of Lysychansk, a major step toward conquering the entire Donbas.




www.nydailynews.com





U.S. POLITICS
Russian advance in eastern Ukraine seen as big blow​By Shant Shahrigian
New York Daily News
•
Jul 03, 2022 at 6:21 pm

TOP POLITICS VIDEOS
Top Videos: - Russia Withdraws Troops From Black Sea Island

Top Videos: - Russia Withdraws Troops From Black Sea Islandclose




Top Videos: - Russia Withdraws Troops From Black Sea Island


Russia says it withdrew troops from Ukraine's Snake Island in the Black Sea as a gesture aimed at easing grain shipments, while Ukrainian forces said they had pulled out under massive attack. Annmarie Hordern reports on Bloomberg Television



“The continuation of the defense of the city would lead to fatal consequences,” Ukrainian military officials were quoted as saying by The New York Times. “In order to preserve the lives of Ukrainian defenders, a decision was made to withdraw.”





People look over the wreckage after a missile stuck a shopping mall on July 03, 2022 in Sloviansk, Ukraine. The attack was one of many in the city early Sunday afternoon. (Scott Olson/Getty Images)
The Ukrainian military said Russian forces had huge advantages in terms of both firepower and manpower.

Since withdrawing from the region around Ukraine’s capital Kyiv in the spring, Russian forces have concentrated their attacks on the eastern Luhansk and Donetsk regions, which make up the area known as Donbas.
Capturing Lysychansk would mean a major step toward conquering the entire Donbas, where Ukrainian forces have battled Russian-backed separatists since 2014. The conflict reached new heights on Feb. 24, when Russia launched its invasion and stepped up hostilities.


ADVERTISEMENT

Ukrainian forces will return to Lysychansk, Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelenskyy vowed in a Saturday night address.
“We will return thanks to our tactics, thanks to the increase in the supply of modern weapons,” he said. “Ukraine does not give anything up.”




Fire burns at a shopping mall after it was struck by a missile on July 03, 2022 in Sloviansk, Ukraine. The attack was one of many in the city early Sunday afternoon, which targeted residential neighborhoods, destroyed homes and left at least 6 people dead and 15 injured. (Scott Olson/Getty Images)
Zelenskyy got in some digs at Russian President Vladimir Putin about his promise of a quick and easy victory prior to the start of the invasion.
“Let them remember their reports and promises before Feb. 24, in the first days of this invasion, in the spring and now,” Zelenskyy said. “Let them really evaluate what they got over this time and how much they paid for it.”
Nevertheless, the capture of Lysychansk — the last city in Luhansk held by Ukraine, the Times noted — positions Russian forces to march on to other key cities like Sloviansk. At least six people were killed by shelling there, the BBC reported.
In recent weeks, western leaders have grappled with the challenge of maintaining support for Ukraine as the war grinds on.
On Friday, the U.S. announced $820 million in additional military aid, on top of billions of dollars Washing has already sent. The Treasury Department also blocked a $1 billion U.S.-based trust linked to sanctioned Russian oligarch Suleiman Abusaidovich Kerimov, the latest in a series of economic moves with both symbolic and strategic importance.
“We are going to support Ukraine as long as it takes,” President Biden said at a NATO summit last week in Madrid.
“Russia, in fact, has already lost its international standing,” he said. “Russia is in a position where the whole world is looking and saying, ‘Wait a minute, all this effort — you tried to take the whole country. You tried to take Kyiv. You lost. You’ve tried to take the Donbas and all of it. You haven’t done that yet.’”
But the apparent capture of Lysychansk marked a major moral and military blow to Ukraine.
“It’s like a knife to the heart,” resident Ivan Shybkov told the Times. “Our emotions are not a switch that can be switched off. Therefore, of course, it hurts us a lot.”
Amid the horrifying violence claiming thousands of civilian lives, a war of words has transpired between western leaders and Putin.




People salvage merchandise from their shops after a missile stuck a shopping mall on July 03, 2022 in Sloviansk, Ukraine. The attack was one of many in the city early Sunday afternoon. (Scott Olson/Getty Images)
Last week, bigwigs from the Group of Seven wealthy democracies joked about posing shirtless for a group photo in Germany, a dig at Putin’s proclivity for macho pics.
“I don’t know how they wanted to get undressed, above or below the waist,” Putin told reporters in Moscow. “But I think it would be a disgusting sight in any case.”
*With News Wire Services*


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

khansaheeb said:


> We need a storm of peace not war. Why not negotiate peace now than later?



America does not allow the world to have peace. When Russia tried to join NATO, America blocked it. Because war is profit. America needs war to have profit.

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## khansaheeb

Tai Hai Chen said:


> America does not allow the world to have peace. When Russia tried to join NATO, America blocked it. Because war is profit. America needs war to have profit.


NATO seems to be a waste of money, totally useless, the day they fight it will be nuclear Armageddon so seems to be a setup for world destruction.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

khansaheeb said:


> NATO seems to be a waste of money, totally useless, the day they fight it will be nuclear Armageddon so seems to be a setup for world destruction.



America is the glue that holds NATO together. As America decays, the glue decays. Eventually, NATO will be dissolved and NATO countries will go to war with each other for land. France vs Germany. Greece vs Turkey. Sweden vs Finland. Spain vs Portugal.

War is human nature. Every day since dawn of humanity 200,000 years ago there is war somewhere in the world. Russians is not the problem. Humans is the problem. Unless humans are eliminated from Earth, there will be war every day somewhere in the world. This is what Albert Einstein had to say about war.

“I do not know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but _World War IV_ will be fought with _sticks_ and stones.” – Albert _Einstein_.


----------



## TNT

@Tai Hai Chen stop with ur dumb repetitive comments, u r inciting useless debates. The thread wil get closed because of u again. Just shut ur dumb brain. 
@waz thread ban him and there wont be any fights.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

TNT said:


> @Tai Hai Chen stop with ur dumb repetitive comments, u r inciting useless debates. The thread wil get closed because of u again. Just shut ur dumb brain.
> @waz thread ban him and there wont be any fights.



Einstein's words. Not my words. 

“I do not know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but _World War IV_ will be fought with _sticks_ and stones.” – Albert _Einstein_.

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## jamesisi

Tai Hai Chen said:


> America does not allow the world to have peace. When Russia tried to join NATO, America blocked it. Because war is profit. America needs war to have profit.


Hence the saying Wild West

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## khansaheeb

Tai Hai Chen said:


> America is the glue that holds NATO together. As America decays, the glue decays. Eventually, NATO will be dissolved and NATO countries will go to war with each other for land. France vs Germany. Greece vs Turkey. Sweden vs Finland. Spain vs Portugal.
> 
> War is human nature. Every day since dawn of humanity 200,000 years ago there is war somewhere in the world. Russians is not the problem. Humans is the problem. Unless humans are eliminated from Earth, there will be war every day somewhere in the world. This is what Albert Einstein had to say about war.
> 
> “I do not know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but _World War IV_ will be fought with _sticks_ and stones.” – Albert _Einstein_.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543729586986418176

Another massive HIMARS strike. Happy 4th of July to all American volunteers in Ukraine!


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543729586986418176
> 
> Another massive HIMARS strike. Happy 4th of July to all American volunteers in Ukraine!



Americans are war mongers. In Syria they sent weapons to rebels. In Ukraine they sent weapons to the Kiev regime.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543725137991696384
Boom!


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543725137991696384
> Boom!



You American war mongers will pay for your war crimes.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543735226978996224

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543735234587463680

Russia clearly can’t handle HIMARS. There’s 4 more coming and 9 M270s.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543735226978996224
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543735234587463680
> 
> Russia clearly can’t handle HIMARS. There’s 4 more coming and 9 M270s.



Smerch has more range than HIMARS. GLONASS guided Smerch round range 120 km.


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## TNT

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Einstein's words. Not my words.
> 
> “I do not know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but _World War IV_ will be fought with _sticks_ and stones.” – Albert _Einstein_.



Uve posted that same sentence like 18 times u retard. Who let u get on the internet? U should be in a rehab or special education.

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## Elvin

Tai Hai Chen said:


> If Ukrainians wanted democracy they would have chosen democratic election instead of rioting. They would have prevented war in 2014.



If only the elections were fair, with Moscow “observers” ensuring fair and free elections i am sure Yanukovch was elected fair and square. LOL! It is time for Ukraine to be FREE. Russia may get Donbas but the cities will be ruined. Russian Terror needs to be stopped in Ukraine. 300,000 NATO troops can easily outgun the Moscovites.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Elvin said:


> If only the elections were fair, with Moscow “observers” ensuring fair and free elections i am sure Yanukovch was elected fair and square. LOL! It is time for Ukraine to be FREE. Russia may get Donbas but the cities will be ruined. Russian Terror needs to be stopped in Ukraine. 300,000 NATO troops can easily outgun the Moscovites.



Let's go. China will nuke NATO if NATO invades Russia. China has 1.4 billion people, the oldest continuous civilization, the land of the two rivers, the world's biggest economy and military. China is the real life Avengers. Defender of the disadvantaged, the bullied, the vulnerable.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Smerch has more range than HIMARS. GLONASS guided Smerch round range 120 km.



Russia can no longer make weapons as EU has sanctioned.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Russia can no longer make weapons as EU has sanctioned.



China supplies Russia with whatever Russia needs. China has 1.4 billion people, the oldest continuous civilization, the land of the two rivers, the world's biggest economy and military. China is the real life Avengers. Defender of the disadvantaged, the bullied, the vulnerable.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

MultaniGuy said:


> But BRICS is a failure with India in it.
> 
> India should be kicked out of BRICS. Pakistan should fill in that seat.



Patience brother. China is working on it. India will be out of both SCO and BRICS in another 6 months.


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## MultaniGuy

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Patience brother. China is working on it. India will be out of both SCO and BRICS in another 6 months.


Problem is Russia still has good relations with India since the days of USSR.


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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

MultaniGuy said:


> Problem is Russia still has good relations with India since the days of USSR.



Russia has now become very weak and junior partner of China after the EU/NATO Sanctions. SCO and BRICS are now fully under Chinese control. India will be shown the door shortly.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> China supplies Russia with whatever Russia needs. China has 1.4 billion people, the oldest continuous civilization, the land of the two rivers, the world's biggest economy and military. China is the real life Avengers. Defender of the disadvantaged, the bullied, the vulnerable.



China is following EU/NATO sanctions and not sharing any technology or products that would support Russia in the war. Weak Russia is good for China. Also China does not want her companies sanctioned by the West.

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## jhungary

ckf said:


> But a frontal assault did happen by Chechens. LOL Ukrainian didn't even fight in Lysychansk, they did the honorable thing by running away from battle.


Think they are still fighting last time I check before I went to bed






On the other hand, Russia said they "*Took*" Sieverodonetsk back on June 2, yet it did not fall until June 27









Russian forces take control of 80% of Severodonetsk


Serhiy Hayday, head of Luhansk's regional military administration, said Wednesday that Russian forces now occupy about 80% of the Ukrainian city of Severodonetsk.




www.upi.com





And Russia said they took Mariupol Town Hall (The same claim they are making with Lysychansk) since March 28









Video appears to show Russian troops raising flag on Mariupol town hall building - The Global Herald


The Telegraph published this video item, entitled "Video appears to show Russian troops raising flag on Mariupol town hall building" - below is their



theglobalherald.com





We all know Mariupol did not fall until May 20.

You be the judge.

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## MultaniGuy

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Russia has now become very weak and junior partner of China after the EU/NATO Sanctions. SCO and BRICS are now fully under Chinese control. India will be shown the door shortly.
> 
> 
> 
> China is following EU/NATO sanctions and not sharing any technology or products that would support Russia in the war. Weak Russia is good for China. Also China does not want her companies sanctioned by the West.


I want China and Pakistan to leave Non-Aligned Movement.

India should be kicked out of SCO and BRICS. They are the odd man out.


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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

MultaniGuy said:


> I want China and Pakistan to leave Non-Aligned Movement.
> 
> India should be kicked out of SCO and BRICS. They are the odd man out.



China and Pakistan will lead SCO.

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## jhungary

ZeGerman said:


> Werent the ukranians better off defending lysychansk then going so heavy trying to hold/delay in severodonetsk?


Well, that's what I would do, it is a much more defendable position for the Ukrainian in Lysychansk than in Sieverodonetsk.

Problem is that Russia is trying to flank them, if the Russian manage to roll up Ukrainian flank in Poposna, then it didn't really matter because that would cut off the Ukrainian retreat. 

Which is exactly what the Russian should do, because you put pressure on the pressuring point instead of direct assault thur both city. 

This is a weird war...


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## ckf

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543671191713488896
That was quick, Bakmut next. Russian are going old school, classic golden horde tactics.

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## ARMalik

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543006933174538241


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> China is following EU/NATO sanctions and not sharing any technology or products that would support Russia in the war. Weak Russia is good for China. Also China does not want her companies sanctioned by the West.



NATO countries bullied China for 100 years of shame since 1800s. Of course, China exacts revenge on NATO countries by supplying Russia with weapons.


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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

ckf said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543671191713488896
> That was quick



It's a tactical retreat by Ukraine. Ukraine is heavily bombarding Russians.









ARMalik said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543006933174538241



We know that Indians are hypocrites.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> NATO countries bullied China for 100 years of shame since 1800s. Of course, China exacts revenge on NATO countries by supplying Russia with weapons.



If China supports Russia then West will sanction China. China will not take that risk for Russia. Russia is not that important.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> If China supports Russia then West will sanction China. China will not take that risk for Russia. Russia is not that important.



The West sanctioned China since 1989 when the West attempted coup at Tian An Men square against CCP. The West has no leverage over China.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Tai Hai Chen said:


> The West sanctioned China since 1989 when the West attempted coup at Tian An Men square against CCP. The West has no leverage over China.



Sanctions on China are weak and just for show. All goods are manufactured in China.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Sanctions on China are weak and just for show. All goods are manufactured in China.



It is the lazy westerners who need Chinese goods. Because they are too lazy to work.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

ckf said:


> RA's goal will be to inflict heavy casualty during this retreat, and blitzkrig Ukranian positions as long as logistics/fuel can be supplied. UA cannot systematically target advancing Russians in this confusion, no way to tell who's friends, and who's enemy. UA tactical retreat has to accelerate to avoid being completely destroyed. RA will probably spread out mechanized division to outflank UA retreat.



Ukraine is focussing on taking over Kheroson and Crimea in the next few days. Eastern Ukraine is not that important.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Ukraine is focussing on taking over Kheroson and Crimea in the next few days. Eastern Ukraine is not that important.



If Kiev touches Kherson then Russia flatten Kiev. Let's see if Kiev dares.


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543745963185037312


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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Tai Hai Chen said:


> It is the lazy westerners who need Chinese goods. Because they are too lazy to work.



West gives technology to China to manufacture. For example China got HSR tech from Japan and now no longer needs Japanese tech. China still needs IC chips from the West hence will listen to the West until China has got the full tech. Then it will dump the West and take control of Taiwan.



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543745963185037312



Russians turned out to be the jokers.


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## F-22Raptor

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543745963185037312



Mattis essentially says Russian commanders are a bunch of morons


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> West gives technology to China to manufacture. For example China got HSR tech from Japan and now no longer needs Japanese tech. China still needs IC chips from the West hence will listen to the West until China has got the full tech. Then it will dump the West and take control of Taiwan.



The West is China's enemy. NATO countries bullying China since 1800s. 100 years of humiliation. Opium. Hong Kong. Taiwan. You name it. Chinese hate the West.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Tai Hai Chen said:


> The West is China's enemy. NATO countries bullying China since 1800s. 100 years of humiliation. Opium. Hong Kong. Taiwan. You name it. Chinese hate the West.



China hates West but China is patient and knows when to strike back.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> China hates West but China is patient and knows when to strike back.



China is building 10 carrier strike groups. Taiwan's days are numbered. America is decaying. America can't protect Taiwan by 2050. By 2050 America will not have a single carrier strike group.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Tai Hai Chen said:


> China is building 10 carrier strike groups. Taiwan's days are numbered. America is decaying. America can't protect Taiwan by 2050. By 2050 America will not have a single carrier strike group.



Most of Russian weapons and 1/2 of NATO weapons will be gone in the on going Russia-NATO war in Uraine. China will walk in and take control of Taiwan before 2027.


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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Most of Russian weapons and 1/2 of NATO weapons will be gone in the on going Russia-NATO war in Uraine. China will walk in and take control of Taiwan before 2027.



Nope. Sun Tzu says. Patience is virtue. Let America rot for a few more decades.


----------



## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JULY 3​Jul 3, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF

*Kateryna Stepanenko, George Barros, Grace Mappes, and Frederick W. Kagan
July 3, 7:45 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
Russian forces have likely secured the Luhansk Oblast border, although pockets of Ukrainian resistance may remain in and around Lysychansk. *Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu announced that Russian forces have captured Luhansk Oblast on July 3, after seizing Lysychansk and settlements on the Luhansk Oblast administrative border.[1] The Ukrainian General Staff also announced that Ukrainian forces withdrew from Lysychansk to avoid personnel losses.[2] Russian forces have likely not fully cleared Lysychansk and Luhansk Oblast as of July 3, despite Shoigu’s announcement. The Russian Defense Ministry stated that Russian forces are still fighting within Lysychansk to defeat remaining encircled Ukrainian forces, but the Ukrainian withdrawal means that Russian forces will almost certainly complete their clearing operations relatively quickly.[3]
Russian forces will likely next advance on Siversk, though they could launch more significant attacks on Bakhmut or Slovyansk instead or at the same time. Ukrainian forces will likely continue their fighting withdrawal toward the E40 highway that runs from Slovyansk through Bakhmut toward Debaltseve. It is unclear whether they will choose to defend around Siversk at this time.
Two very senior Russian commanders are reportedly responsible for the tactical activities around Lysychansk. Commander of the Central Military District Colonel General Aleksandr Lapin and Commander of the Russian Aerospace Forces Army General Sergey Suvorikin (who also commands Russia’s “southern” group of troops in Ukraine) have been responsible for securing Lysychansk and the area to the west of it respectively.[4] The involvement of two such senior officers in the same undertaking in a small part of the front is remarkable and likely indicates the significance that Russian President Vladimir Putin has attributed to securing Lysychansk and the Luhansk Oblast border as well as his lack of confidence in more junior officers to do the job.
Ukrainian forces likely used US-provided HIMARS rocket artillery systems to strike a Russian ammunition depot at the Melitopol airfield on July 3. Melitopol Mayor Ivan Fedorov reported that Ukrainian forces launched two strikes on one of the four Russian depots in Melitopol.[5] Russian Telegram channel Rybar released footage of a large cloud of smoke over the city, and Russian-appointed Melitopol Governor Yevhen Balytskyi falsely claimed that Ukrainian forces aimed to strike residential buildings, but instead hit areas around the airfield.[6]
The Kremlin likely seeks to expand Russian state control over private Russian companies that support elements of Russia’s military industrial base. The Ukrainian Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported on July 3 that the Russian government’s inability to pay Russian firms supporting Russia’s war in Ukraine is degrading Russia’s ability to repair damaged vehicles. The GUR reported that the directors of Russian military vehicle repair centers are not accepting new Russian equipment for repair because the Russian military has not paid these centers for previous work.[7] Recently proposed Russian legislation suggests that Kremlin leadership shares GUR’s assessment. Russian legislators in the Russian State Duma submitted a bill on June 30 that would empower the Kremlin to introduce “special measures in the economic sphere” enabling the Russian government to force private Russian companies to provide supplies for Russian military operations.[8] The bill prohibits Russian businesses from refusing to fulfil Russian government procurement orders connected to Russian military operations.
*Key Takeaways*

*Russian forces seized the remaining territory between Lysychansk and Luhansk Oblast’s administrative borders on July 3.*
*Russian forces launched assaults northeast of Bakhmut and north of Slovyansk but did not secure new territorial gains.*
*Russian forces conducted extensive artillery attacks in the western part of the Southern Axis likely to disrupt Ukrainian counteroffensives.*
*The Kremlin continued to set conditions for potential Russian annexation of proxy republics.*
*Ukrainian partisans reportedly derailed a Russian armored train carrying ammunition near Melitopol on July 2.*
*

*
*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts
Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City
Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis
Mobilization and force generation efforts
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces captured Luhansk Oblast’s administrative borders on July 3 following the Ukrainian withdrawal from Lysychansk and settlements in its vicinity. Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu claimed that Russian forces seized Lysychansk, Bilohorivka, Novodruzhensk, and Maloryazantseve on July 2, capturing the remaining salient around Lysychansk along the Luhansk Oblast boundary.[9] The Russian Defense Ministry added that Russian forces are still fighting encircled Ukrainian forces within Lysychansk as of July 3.[10] The Ukrainian General Staff confirmed that Ukrainian forces deliberately withdrew from Lysychansk, citing lack of equipment and concern over the loss of life.[11] Geolocated footage showed Russian forces casually walking around Bilohorivka on July 3, which further suggests that Ukrainian forces withdrew from settlements on the Luhansk Oblast border just west of Lysychansk.[12] The Ukrainian General Staff also confirmed that Russian forces captured Zolotarivka and are securing positions around Verkhnokamyanka, both just south of Bilohorivka.[13]



Russian forces launched assaults northeast of Bakhmut in an effort to capture the remaining settlements along the Luhansk Oblast administrative borders. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces launched unsuccessful assaults from Nyrokove on Berestove, indicating that Russian forces established control over Nyrkove on the Luhansk Oblast border.[14] Russian forces also reportedly conducted reconnaissance-in-force operations in the Vasylivka-Berestove direction and attempted unsuccessful offensive operations west of Mykolaivka and Vovchoyarivka.[15] Russian Telegram channel Rybar posted footage reportedly captured by Wagner Group units in Klynove (approximately 12km southeast of Bakhmut) that would indicate that Russian forces are attempting to secure positions along the E40 Slovyansk-Bakhmut highway, although ISW is unable to verify the footage.[16]



Russian forces attacked settlements north of Slovyansk but did not secure new territorial gains on July 3. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled Russian assaults near Mazanivka and on Dolyna from Pasivka (northeast of the E40).[17] The Ukrainian General Staff noted that Russian forces are using unspecified electronic warfare systems in the areas north of Slovyansk.[18] Pro-Russian military expert Boris Rozhin claimed that Russian forces are also engaged in positional battles in Velyka Komyshuvakha and Kurlka, southwest of Izyum, which would suggest that Russian forces are attempting to repel Ukrainian counterattacks in the area, although ISW is unable to verify this assertion.[19] Slovyansk Mayor Vadym Lyakh and Russian sources reported that Russian forces are heavily shelling Slovyansk.[20]
Russian forces are attempting to improve their tactical positions around Avdiivka, and are continuing to shell and launch airstrikes on Ukrainian positions in the area.[21] Rozhin claimed that Russian forces are fighting near the N20 Avdiivka-Konstantynivka highway, and the Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces are trying to improve tactical positions around Spartak.[22]



*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum and prevent Ukrainian forces from reaching the Russian border)
Russian forces did not make any territorial gains northwest of Kharkiv City on July 3.* Ukrainian sources reported that Ukrainian forces repelled a Russian attack on Prudyanka along the T2117 highway, and that Russian forces northwest of Kharkiv City otherwise focused on maintaining their current positions.[23] Russian forces continued shelling civilian and military infrastructure facilities in Kharkiv City and the surrounding settlements, especially along the E105 and T2117 highways leading to Kharkiv City.[24]



*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Russian objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)
Russian forces are continuing to take defensive measures along the Southern Axis, likely in an effort to repel Ukrainian counteroffensives. *Ukraine’s General Staff reported on July 3 that Russian forces conducted “systematic” tube and rocket artillery strikes to prevent Ukrainian units' advances.[25] NASA’s Fire Information for Resource Management System (FIRMS) remotely sensed data showed abnormally high numbers of fires along the Mykolaiv-Kherson Oblast frontline on July 3, notably near Snihurivka, Zasillia, Kopani - Zelenyi Hai, and Tavriiske, supporting the Ukrainian General Staff’s report.[26] These locations are plausible bases for a possible Ukrainian counteroffensive. Ukraine’s Operational Command South reported on July 2 that Ukrainian forces repelled a Russian reconnaissance-in-force in the direction of Ivanivka in northwestern Kherson Oblast.[27] Odesa Oblast Military Administration Spokesperson Serhiy Bratchuk also noted that Russian forces began accumulating military equipment in downtown Kherson City and Verhniy Rogachyk (eastern Kherson Oblast).[28]


 



[Source: NASA’s Fire Information for Resource Management System, July 3]



[Source: NASA’s Fire Information for Resource Management System, July 3]



[Source: NASA’s Fire Information for Resource Management System, July 3]​Ukrainian combat aviation is reportedly still active in Kherson Oblast as of July 2. Ukraine’s Operational Command South reported that Ukrainian fixed and rotary wing aircraft conducted five strikes against Russian ammunition depots and force concentrations and claimed the destruction of two Russian ammunition depots in Chornobayivka and Snihurivka.[29] Russian forces continued conducting missile strikes against Kherson and Mykolaiv Oblasts on July 2 - 3.[30]
*Mobilization and force generation efforts (Russian objective: Expand combat power without conducting general mobilization)*
Nothing significant to report.
*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)
The Kremlin continued to set conditions for potential Russian annexation of proxy republics on July 3.* Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) Head Denis Pushilin announced that United Russia Party Secretary of the General Council Andrey Turchak and party representatives established a legal aid center in Donetsk City.[31] Pushilin noted that the legal aid center will provide DNR residents assistance with education, legal documents, and registration for social benefits. Pushilin and Turchak also handed out Russian passports to DNR residents.[32] The Kremlin is likely attempting to integrate proxy legal and governmental structures into the Russian framework.
Ukrainian partisans reportedly derailed a Russian armored train carrying ammunition near Melitopol on July 2.[33] Kremlin-sponsored outlet _RIA Novosti_ acknowledged that the train derailed around Yakymivka, but claimed that the incident was an accident.[34] Ukrainian partisans previously targeted Russian armored trains and locomotives in Melitopol in late April and mid-May.[35]

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543709744057163776

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## Elvin

Tai Hai Chen said:


> Let's go. China will nuke NATO if NATO invades Russia. China has 1.4 billion people, the oldest continuous civilization, the land of the two rivers, the world's biggest economy and military. China is the real life Avengers. Defender of the disadvantaged, the bullied, the vulnerable.



LOL.. okay Russian fanboy go emigrate to Russia and leave the west. Let’s see how you like it.


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Interesting Orion drone footage at the 0:33 mark








Elvin said:


> LOL.. okay Russian fanboy go emigrate to Russia and leave the west. Let’s see how you like it.



Westerners should leave the west and go to China. Affordable housing. Free healthcare.

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## Bengal71

khansaheeb said:


>



Is that really Lavrov talking or a made up video? Seriously asking.


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## khansaheeb

Bengal71 said:


> Is that really Lavrov talking or a made up video? Seriously asking.


It seems real enough, but with modern day video editing wizardry can't say with certainty.

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## F-22Raptor

The Russian trolls still don’t realize the amount of firepower and losses the US would inflict on Russia. You see what a simple 4 HIMARS has done to Russian command posts and ammo depots over the last couple weeks. Russia is unable to stop it. 

The rate of loss the US would inflict would be absurd.

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## F-22Raptor

Great Janjua said:


> The Russians are on the doorstep of Lysychansk and here we have some twerp by the name of F-22 having an orgasm over some artillery pieces just as CNN has an orgasm over seeing m4s in Ukrainian hands. Whilst the battlefield is slowly giving way to Russian advances Ukraine losing highly experienced men at a fast rate.
> 
> This is what happens when you are too far up ur own arse.




The Russians have less territory than they did in April and gained all of 0.3% in territory in June. 

4 HIMARS are annihilating Russian command posts and ammo depots. You can imagine if they have 50+.

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## khansaheeb

khansaheeb said:


> It seems real enough, but with modern day video editing wizardry can't say with certainty.


Total air dominance within a week, then a complete decimation of Russian front line positions within a month.


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## Great Janjua

F-22Raptor said:


> The Russians have less territory than they did in April and gained all of 0.3% in tethe rritory in June.
> 
> 4 HIMARS are annihilating Russian command posts and ammo depots. You can imagine if they have 50+.


The Russians pulled back due to being overstretched but they decimated large portions of Ukrainian logistic hubs, Anti-air capabilities and industrial infrastructure before focusing entirely on Ukraine's eastern and southern fronts. Don't forget the majority of Russian forces engaged with Ukrainians are reserve personnel a good way to build combat experience whilst fighting trained foe forces.

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## F-22Raptor

Great Janjua said:


> The Russians pulled back due to being overstretched but they decimated large portions of Ukrainian logistic hubs, Anti-air capabilities and industrial infrastructure before focusing entirely on Ukraine's eastern and southern fronts. Don't forget the majority of Russian forces engaged with Ukrainians are reserve personnel a good way to build combat experience whilst fighting trained foe forces.




Russia has lost a third of its armored force, and still can’t gain air superiority after 4 months. The Russian Air Force has been pathetic. The Russian Navy managed to lose its flagship to a country with no navy. 

The US would decimate Russian forces. In fact, it would be a lopsided victory for the US.

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## Great Janjua

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia has lost a third of its armored force, and still can’t gain air superiority after 4 months. The Russian Air Force has been pathetic. The Russian Navy managed to lose its flagship to a country with no navy.
> 
> The US would decimate Russian forces. In fact, it would be a lopsided victory for the US.


Yh, carry on believing that BS. I'll see you when lychyshansk falls and CNN calls it a tactical retreat.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543804275658072070


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## Type59

Great Janjua said:


> Yh, carry on believing that BS. I'll see you when lychyshansk falls and CNN calls it a tactical retreat.


Already fallen, couple of days ago.

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## Elvin

Very interesting podcast with Dr. Pippa Malmgren where she puts a lot of the current events into perspective. 

Starting on or aroung the 9th minute she goes into explaining what has been going on between the world’s powers and that we are already in WW3 and have been for a while.


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## khansaheeb

Turkey detains Russian-flagged grain ship from Ukraine


Ship tracking reveals the route of a grain shipment from Russian-controlled Ukraine.



www.bbc.com





Turkey detains Russian-flagged grain ship from Ukraine​*By Reality Check & BBC Turkish*
BBC News


Published
9 hours ago
Share
Related Topics

Russia-Ukraine war






*A cargo ship carrying grain from a Russian-occupied region of Ukraine has been detained by Turkish customs authorities, according to Ukraine's ambassador to Turkey.*
Vasyl Bodnar says "We have full co-operation. The ship is currently standing at the entrance to the port, it has been detained by the customs authorities of Turkey".
We've tracked the Russian-flagged ship, the Zhibek Zholy, on its route from the Ukrainian port of Berdyansk, to Karasu on the Turkish Black Sea coast.
It is not clear where its cargo came from or how it was obtained, but Russia has been accused of stealing grain from areas of Ukraine it controls - allegations Russia denies.

Tracking where Russia is taking Ukraine's stolen grain





Berdyansk is in Ukraine's southern Zaporizhzhia region, on the Sea of Azov.
News of the ship's departure from Berdyansk was announced on social media app Telegram by Yevhen Balytskyi, who was recently appointed by Russia as governor of the occupied areas of Zaporizhzhia.

Mr Balytskyi said 7,000 tonnes of grain would be sent to "friendly" countries.
He added that ships from Russia's Black Sea Fleet would be "ensuring the security" of the journey, and that the port had been cleared of sea mines.



IMAGE SOURCE,TELEGRAM
Image caption,
A Russian Shmel-class gunboat was pictured escorting the Zhibek Zholy
He later edited the post, taking out references to the ship's cargo and destination.
A video news report about the departure of the ship has also been shared on several pro-Kremlin Telegram channels showing it along with a Russian naval vessel in a harbour, which was identified as Berdyansk by the reporter.



IMAGE SOURCE,TELEGRAM
Image caption,
A video news report, published on Telegram, shows the Zhibek Zholy before its voyage to Turkey
Comparing the video footage with satellite imagery of the port, we have been able to confirm that it was filmed in Berdyansk.
The weather conditions in the video and the angle of the shadows along the harbour suggest it was filmed on the morning of 28 June.

Some features along the ship's hull, such as its name, were blurred out in the video. But we have confirmed that the ship that left Berdyansk is the same one now lying off the Turkish coast, based on images from the Telegram posts as well as eyewitness accounts given to a Ukrainian shipping expert.



IMAGE SOURCE,TELEGRAM
Image caption,
The Zhibek Zholy pictured in Berdyansk
We have also been able to track the earlier movements of the Zhibek Zholy as it made its way towards Ukraine to pick up its cargo.
On 22 June it travelled from Turkey, dropping off its cargo at the Russian port of Novorossiysk. As it then approached the Ukrainian coast, its tracking signal was lost - suggesting it had been switched off.
The signal only reappeared on 29 June as it headed back south away from the Ukrainian coast. This tracker also reports the depth at which the ship lies in the water - and it indicated that the ship had taken on cargo.
Michelle Bockmann, a markets editor at Lloyd's List Intelligence, believes this is "suspicious" behaviour.
She says many cargo ships turn off their trackers for part of their journeys in the Sea of Azov, but most resume their transmissions when they reach their intended port.

It's not clear whether the ship intends to unload its cargo in the Turkish port of Karasu or continue its journey south through the Bosphorus Strait to an, as yet, unknown destination.
The registered owner of the Zhibek Zholy, a Kazakh-based company called KTZ Express, has told the Reuters news agency that the ship has been chartered by a Russian company. It added that it was consulting the parties involved and would abide by all sanctions and restrictions.
_Reporting by Josh Cheetham, Maria Korenyuk, Daniele Palumbo, Erwan Rivault, Onur Erem, and Mahmut Hamsici in Karasu, Turkey_


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Elvin said:


> Very interesting podcast with Dr. Pippa Malmgren where she puts a lot of the current events into perspective.
> 
> Starting on or aroung the 9th minute she goes into explaining what has been going on between the world’s powers and that we are already in WW3 and have been for a while.



Officially been in WW3 since 2014 shortly after Euro Maidan.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Great Janjua said:


> Yh, carry on believing that BS. I'll see you when lychyshansk falls and CNN calls it a tactical retreat.



Russia controls less territory now than it did in April. Let it sink in

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543541809162379265


----------



## GeraltofRivia

Viet said:


> What a nonsense
> Germany has coal reserves enough for decades. There are lots of countries outside China with huge coal reserves. Australia, Indonesia to name a few. Vietnam’s coal reserves for instance are enough for hundreds of years.
> 
> Germany don’t rely on China. technology, workers, coal are here available.
> 
> View attachment 856913


What you have in this photo is not coal reserve, this is stockpile of a coal power plant. The background is a coal plant as you can see. Typically a coal power plant maintains a 70-90 days’ supply depending how stable the supply is. It is not free to stockpile coal as they take a lot space and they can burn if it is not stocked properly. What you may consider as a mountain of coal in this photo is not much for a coal mine as they burn coal really quickly. 

What you called “coal reserve” are coal mine under ground, which need to be extracted, cleaned and shipped to coal mine. It comes back to Yang’s point that it requires equipments and a lot of skilled coal miners, which are hard to find these days.

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## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia controls less territory now than it did in April. Let it sink in



You cannot measure territory. You can only measure number of people.

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## MeFishToo

Tai Hai Chen said:


> America does not allow the world to have peace. When Russia tried to join NATO, America blocked it. Because war is profit. America needs war to have profit.


So when did Russia apply for membership?


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

MeFishToo said:


> So when did Russia apply for membership?











Russia–NATO relations - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













Ex-Nato head says Putin wanted to join alliance early on in his rule


George Robertson recalls Russian president did not want to wait in line with ‘countries that don’t matter’




www.theguardian.com

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## MeFishToo

GeraltofRivia said:


> What you have in this photo is not coal reserve, this is stockpile of a coal power plant. The background is a coal plant as you can see. Typically a coal power plant maintains a 70-90 days’ supply depending how stable the supply is. It is not free to stockpile coal as they take a lot space and they can burn if it is not stocked properly. What you may consider as a mountain of coal in this photo is not much for a coal mine as they burn coal really quickly.
> 
> What you called “coal reserve” are coal mine under ground, which need to be extracted, cleaned and shipped to coal mine. It comes back to Yang’s point that it requires equipments and a lot of skilled coal miners, which are hard to find these days.


Germany operates coal mines and have some of the largest coal reserves in Europe. Its just a matter of choice.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> Russia–NATO relations - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ex-Nato head says Putin wanted to join alliance early on in his rule
> 
> 
> George Robertson recalls Russian president did not want to wait in line with ‘countries that don’t matter’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com


So when did they apply? “Want to” doesnt mean Russia applied. Russia wanted a chair next to USA, just like that, believing that USA and Russia were meant to control NATO the same way Russia controls some former sovjet states.

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## Soldier35

The Russian army began preparations for the assault on Slavyansk. Massive attacks on the positions of the Ukrainian army on the outskirts of Slovyansk have already begun






At about 3 o'clock Belgorod was subjected to massive shelling of the Ukrainian army. Almost all targets were shot down by the Russian air defense system. The governor of the Belgorod region Vyacheslav Gladkov reported a series of pops in the sky of the city and damage to houses. According to Gladkov, at least 39 private residential buildings in Belgorod were partially damaged, five of them were completely destroyed, 11 apartment buildings were also damaged, mostly windows were broken. According to preliminary information, 3 people died.






During the hostilities in Ukraine, the Russian armored car "Tiger" confirmed its high booking quality. Developed in 2005, the Russian armored car "Tiger" and equipped with heat-treated armor plates with a thickness of 5 mm to 7 mm, having hit an anti-tank mine in Ukraine, withstood its explosion, people remained intact

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## ZeGerman

ARMalik said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543006933174538241


Europe is reducing or looking to reduce the volumes it buys as a reaction to the russian invasion. As a sanction to russia. europe taking billions of economic costs.

India rushes to quadruple what it buys
Because they dont give a shit.

This is rightly pointed out….its not that complicated

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## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> First of all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lysychansk falls as Ukraine's military says its troops were forced to withdraw from city
> 
> 
> The confirmation from Ukraine comes after Russian defence minister Sergei Shoigu told President Vladimir Putin that the city has been 'liberated'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.sky.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian forces withdraw from Lysychansk; Kyiv says Donbas battle not over
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Live: Fight for Lysychansk intensifies, Russia accuses Ukraine of deadly shelling near border
> 
> 
> 
> Lysychansk has not yet fallen, Ukrainian had not retreated as of an hour ago.
> 
> Second of all.
> 
> I never said Lysychansk would not felt, I said Lysychansk defence can be held as long as until the following.
> 
> 1.) Russian break out from Popasna and Threaten Bakhmut
> 2.) Russian threaten Sloviansk is under threat
> 
> This is what I said last Monday



Zelensky confirms withdrawal of Ukrainian forces from Lisichansk​


https://tass.com/world/1475141

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543552530747113478

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543548784206139393

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Primus

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia has lost a third of its armored force, and still can’t gain air superiority after 4 months. The Russian Air Force has been pathetic. The Russian Navy managed to lose its flagship to a country with no navy.
> 
> The US would decimate Russian forces. In fact, it would be a lopsided victory for the US.


Russian Air Force has a different doctrine to NATO. It isnt really CAS centric. Air superiority yes, but CAS is mostly left to the helis to do. 

You should watch this guy

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543853075336675328

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543850663548952576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543682999216214017

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543856608693915648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543810695514431488

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543618089476046850

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## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> Zelensky confirms withdrawal of Ukrainian forces from Lisichansk​
> 
> 
> https://tass.com/world/1475141


First of all TASS lol.....

Second of all, even if that is true, as I said, they can held up to a point when the East broke thru or Sloviansk/Kramatorsk threaten, and they broke thru from the East, what are you suppose to do? Leave them in place so they can be slaughtered? 

The fact that the combine effort of Sieverodonetsk and Lysychansk held down the Russian for almost 2 months that the material and time the Russian wasted on the offensive.

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543552530747113478
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543548784206139393


Can you link to the actual Bild news post? 

Cause just like with the “captured caesars” I cannot find the real source…just russian media claiming to cite western sources…


----------



## ARMalik

jhungary said:


> First of all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lysychansk falls as Ukraine's military says its troops were forced to withdraw from city
> 
> 
> The confirmation from Ukraine comes after Russian defence minister Sergei Shoigu told President Vladimir Putin that the city has been 'liberated'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.sky.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian forces withdraw from Lysychansk; Kyiv says Donbas battle not over
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Live: Fight for Lysychansk intensifies, Russia accuses Ukraine of deadly shelling near border
> 
> 
> 
> Lysychansk has not yet fallen, Ukrainian had not retreated as of an hour ago.
> 
> Second of all.
> 
> I never said Lysychansk would not felt, I said Lysychansk defence can be held as long as until the following.
> 
> 1.) Russian break out from Popasna and Threaten Bakhmut
> 2.) Russian threaten Sloviansk is under threat
> 
> This is what I said last Monday


     

      









Ukraine confirms Russia captured eastern city Lysychansk


Ukraine says it pulled its troops out and Russia claims to control all of Luhansk region.



www.bbc.com




Ukraine confirms Russia captured eastern city Lysychansk​

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## Bengal71

ZeGerman said:


> Can you link to the actual Bild news post?
> 
> Cause just like with the “captured caesars” I cannot find the real source…just russian media claiming to cite western sources…



Even if it's captured what's the problem? The Russians are not so backward in SPF tech that they are drooling over a German SPH to copy.

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## jhungary

ARMalik said:


> Ukraine confirms Russia captured eastern city Lysychansk
> 
> 
> Ukraine says it pulled its troops out and Russia claims to control all of Luhansk region.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine confirms Russia captured eastern city Lysychansk​





Zelenskiy denies Russia has taken Luhansk

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## ARMalik

jhungary said:


> Zelenskiy denies Russia has taken Luhansk



Comedian Zelensjy???        

*Australia -- Sydney Morning Herald*








Russia pushes on after seizing pivotal eastern Ukraine city of Lysychansk


Ukrainian soldiers returning from the front lines in the Donbas region have described life during the gruelling war of attrition as apocalyptic.




www.smh.com.au




Russia pushes on after seizing pivotal eastern Ukraine city of Lysychansk​
*UK -- BBC*








Ukraine confirms Russia captured eastern city Lysychansk


Ukraine says it pulled its troops out and Russia claims to control all of Luhansk region.



www.bbc.com





*USA -- CNN


https://edition.cnn.com/2022/07/03/europe/russia-ukraine-luhansk-lysychansk-intl/index.html


*Ukrainian forces withdraw from Lysychansk, their last holdout in key region​

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## jamahir

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543548784206139393



Nice music and he's got the moves. Chechens ?



ARMalik said:


> Comedian Zelensjy???
> 
> *Australia -- Sydney Morning Herald*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia pushes on after seizing pivotal eastern Ukraine city of Lysychansk
> 
> 
> Ukrainian soldiers returning from the front lines in the Donbas region have described life during the gruelling war of attrition as apocalyptic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.smh.com.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia pushes on after seizing pivotal eastern Ukraine city of Lysychansk​
> *UK -- BBC*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine confirms Russia captured eastern city Lysychansk
> 
> 
> Ukraine says it pulled its troops out and Russia claims to control all of Luhansk region.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *USA -- CNN
> 
> 
> https://edition.cnn.com/2022/07/03/europe/russia-ukraine-luhansk-lysychansk-intl/index.html
> 
> 
> *Ukrainian forces withdraw from Lysychansk, their last holdout in key region​



@jhungary will deny even Zelensky's words that Russians and allies have taken 2600 Ukrainian cities. JHungary, you are not concerned for Ukrainian common citizens but are concerned for those Ukrainians who help the Capitalist / Crusader militaries of the North Atlantic Terrorist Organization in waging its wars of imperialism. IIRC the American military's budget for 2022-23 is 900+ billion dollars, enough financial resources to solve the problems of the many many homeless, hungry and of ill health in America, but no, American government will instead use that money to wage imperialism all over the world.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543913477877669888

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543912734265327618

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## ZeEa5KPul

ARMalik said:


> Comedian Zelensjy???
> 
> *Australia -- Sydney Morning Herald*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia pushes on after seizing pivotal eastern Ukraine city of Lysychansk
> 
> 
> Ukrainian soldiers returning from the front lines in the Donbas region have described life during the gruelling war of attrition as apocalyptic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.smh.com.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia pushes on after seizing pivotal eastern Ukraine city of Lysychansk​
> *UK -- BBC*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine confirms Russia captured eastern city Lysychansk
> 
> 
> Ukraine says it pulled its troops out and Russia claims to control all of Luhansk region.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *USA -- CNN
> 
> 
> https://edition.cnn.com/2022/07/03/europe/russia-ukraine-luhansk-lysychansk-intl/index.html
> 
> 
> *Ukrainian forces withdraw from Lysychansk, their last holdout in key region​


@jhungary on suicide watch!

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## jamahir

ZeEa5KPul said:


> @jhungary on suicide watch!



While I understand your intention to make fun of him we shouldn't be making fun of suicide. Suicide shouldn't be done by anyone unless you are surrounded by 30 dogs who you know are about to tear you apart alive or your remotely-situated room is surrounded by three 30-foot anacondas and you have no way of escape. You know, 350,000+ Indian farmers suicided just between 1995 and 2015 because of the extreme Capitalist nature of Indian society. Tragic and very avoidable just by having a progressive system.

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## aziqbal

Ukraine’s light infantry allows it to hold ground 

But they don’t have the mechanized forces to re-take land and move forward 

Those towns and cities that Ukraine lost will never be returned to Ukraine

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543926002052730880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543929185013563394

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## ZeGerman

Bengal71 said:


> Even if it's captured what's the problem? The Russians are not so backward in SPF tech that they are drooling over a German SPH to copy.


Because russian propaganda tries to push the message that:
A: either all western weapons are destroyed en route/shortly after arrival. 
B: they are being captured and reverse engineered/studied. 

Ukraine is having a hard time in Donbass and less trained on these weapons so is bound to lose a few. Thats is no problem.


However i have a problem with so many here copying pro-russian twitter sources or the Chech leader to convey battlefield progress. 
Just double check the source before posting would greatly clean up the propaganda (from both sides).

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## Bengal71

ZeGerman said:


> Because russian propaganda tries to push the message that:
> A: either all western weapons are destroyed en route/shortly after arrival.
> B: they are being captured and reverse engineered/studied.
> 
> Ukraine is having a hard time in Donbass and less trained on these weapons so is bound to lose a few. Thats is no problem.
> 
> 
> However i have a problem with so many here copying pro-russian twitter sources or the Chech leader to convey battlefield progress.
> Just double check the source before posting would greatly clean up the propaganda (from both sides).



I am sure many are destroyed, many are not. It's the nature of the game, it's war. Some are going to extremes to prove Russians are destroying every weapon supplied to Ukraine, so are trying to say those are doing magic on the Russians. Truth is somewhere in between. Only time will tell the outcome of the war.

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## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> Yeah, I think having to help them with their need instead of giving what they need is probably the next stage, there are already too many different system in Ukraine and they don't let people to come in and fix them (well, even if they are allowed in, you can't fix them without infrastructure.)
> 
> Which mean at the end of the day, we need to look at how we can make them what they need.....Stuff that they have the ability to fix.







As you can see they can do something like this with different rockets or missile types in pod versions. Nothing too fancy even if it doesn't have its own crane to reload it.



Tai Hai Chen said:


> Smerch has more range than HIMARS. GLONASS guided Smerch round range 120 km.


Pffft, the new missile HIMARS can launch has 150km with 200km in future after that. And thats not the PRSM. Thats just the GLMRS-ER.

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## Oldman1

aziqbal said:


> Ukraine’s light infantry allows it to hold ground
> 
> But they don’t have the mechanized forces to re-take land and move forward
> 
> Those towns and cities that Ukraine lost will never be returned to Ukraine


Do you really believe that?

The Ukrainians already have tanks and apcs to make that possible especially pushing in Kherson front, obviously they can't do that on all front, neither does the Russians since they would have kept going on the offensive besides Donbas region. 

Also, the Ukrainians have the option of killing as many Russians as possible until they leave and this is not some guerilla warfare, its a hybrid warfare with high tech stuff from artillery to drones to missiles to IEDs and mines.

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## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543544090406658048
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543517037112311811
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543517040849391616
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543516751786303493


Germany Gdp in Q1 grew 4 percent, will grow by 2.5 percent this year at base scenario, even by a Russia gas embargo. Russia meanwhile will shrink -10 percent at optimistic scenario.










Prognose des Ifo-Instituts: Wirtschaft wächst 2022 in Ostdeutschland stärker als im Bundesdurchschnitt


Ukrainekrieg und Lieferkettenproblemen zum Trotz: Die Wirtschaft in den ostdeutschen Bundesländern wird sich nach einer Ifo-Prognose 2022 über ein ordentliches Wachstum freuen können – vor allem eine Branche legt zu.




www.spiegel.de






GeraltofRivia said:


> What you have in this photo is not coal reserve, this is stockpile of a coal power plant. The background is a coal plant as you can see. Typically a coal power plant maintains a 70-90 days’ supply depending how stable the supply is. It is not free to stockpile coal as they take a lot space and they can burn if it is not stocked properly. What you may consider as a mountain of coal in this photo is not much for a coal mine as they burn coal really quickly.
> 
> What you called “coal reserve” are coal mine under ground, which need to be extracted, cleaned and shipped to coal mine. It comes back to Yang’s point that it requires equipments and a lot of skilled coal miners, which are hard to find these days.


Germany has 35,900 million tons coal reserves. By 100 million tons consumption per year the reserves could provide energy for 359 years. Because Russia coal imports is cheaper it makes sense to favor imports than self domestic production.










Themenseite: Kohle in Deutschland


Kohle: Relevante Statistiken zum Thema Kohle in Deutschland




de.statista.com


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543958777271144452

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## Oldman1

@jhungary
The U.S. should give the Ukrainians more HIMARS or M270s along with ATACMS since the U.S. Army is replacing them with PRSMs soon. They could easily hit the ships in Sevastopol where the Russian ships and submarines are reloading the cruise missiles to launch them at the cities especially Odessa. Even hit where they keep the cruise missiles at. One of the main reasons why the Russians wanted to take Crimea back in 2014 for its location. Also used them against distant targets where the supply points are at along with helo and aircraft bases in occupied areas.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543837325599182853

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## ckf

Oldman1 said:


> @jhungary
> The U.S. should give the Ukrainians more HIMARS or M270s along with ATACMS since the U.S. Army is replacing them with PRSMs soon. They could easily hit the ships in Sevastopol where the Russian ships and submarines are reloading the cruise missiles to launch them at the cities especially Odessa. Even hit where they keep the cruise missiles at. One of the main reasons why the Russians wanted to take Crimea back in 2014 for its location. Also used them against distant targets where the supply points are at along with helo and aircraft bases in occupied areas.


We already seen the sanctions on Russia backfire miserably, does US really want a Nuclear power like Russia as a staunch enemy at its borders? Alaska share long/close range with Russians and Canada is literally nextdoor neighbor to Russia artic. Ukraine war is a proxy war, the more advance weapon Ukraine receives from US, US draw itself closer and closer into direct confrontation with Russia. Russia still has not committed its full airforce, so all the Himars, and western artillery donations will be sitting ducks for SU 25. More importantly, the global south will see this as direct US intervention and even EU might be reluctant partners as time goes on. A wider conflict with Russia is not in the interest of Germany and France.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543512713124450304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543949707743219714

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## kingQamaR

ckf said:


> We already seen the sanctions on Russia backfire miserably, does US really want a Nuclear power like Russia as a staunch enemy at its borders? Alaska share long/close range with Russians and Canada is literally nextdoor neighbor to Russia artic. Ukraine war is a proxy war, the more advance weapon Ukraine receives from US, US draw itself closer and closer into direct confrontation with Russia. Russia still has not committed its full airforce, so all the Himars, and Nato artillery will be sitting ducks for SU 25. More importantly, the global south will see this as direct US intervention and even EU might be reluctant partners as time goes on. A wider conflict with Russia is not in the interest of Germany and France.



Putin isn't going to attack a NATO country. He is struggling to beat the Ukraine. He knows he can't win a conventional war against NATO. He will not start a war he thinks he will lose, as it defeats the object and puts his only option as using nukes. Which he also doesn't want to use as he knows he will get nuked

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543866104543674369

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543675116000665600

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543882250760110080

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## ckf

ZeGerman said:


> Because russian propaganda tries to push the message that:
> A: either all western weapons are destroyed en route/shortly after arrival.
> B: they are being captured and reverse engineered/studied.
> 
> Ukraine is having a hard time in Donbass and less trained on these weapons so is bound to lose a few. Thats is no problem.
> 
> 
> However i have a problem with so many here copying pro-russian twitter sources or the Chech leader to convey battlefield progress.
> Just double check the source before posting would greatly clean up the propaganda (from both sides).


I think there's a fundamental problem with control of Media in the West, which is becoming more and more impartial and jingoistic with agenda driven propaganda messaging that no one trust. That lack of trust is fueling platforms like Twitter, where decentralization of information has higher probability of telling the truth than the so called "official news" from CNN, BBC, Skynews. But I think its better to leave it up to the readers to decide, the truth eventually will come out. Maybe my judgement is clouded, but I certainly trust Twitter more than CBC for international news.



kingQamaR said:


> Putin isn't going to attack a NATO country. He is struggling to beat the Ukraine. He knows he can't win a conventional war against NATO. He will not start a war he thinks he will lose, as it defeats the object and puts his only option as using nukes. Which he also doesn't want to use as he knows he will get nuked


I did not meant Russia will attack NATO artillery, but western artillery donations to Ukraine. I have updated my earlier post.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543911118447460356

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543960267939364866

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543975367500783616

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> Russia controls less territory now than it did in April. Let it sink in




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543905613494816769

Let that sink in!



Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543911118447460356




The attack took place in the Donetsk oblast, and not in the Kharkiv region as the bot you quoted claimed. There is no also no proof that the Ukrainians hit an ammunition depot.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543961630572130304

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## Vergennes

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543905613494816769
> 
> Let that sink in!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The attack took place in the Donetsk oblast, and not in the Kharkiv region as the bot you quoted claimed. There is no also no proof that the Ukrainians hit an ammunition depot.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543961630572130304



Russia controls less territory in Ukraine than they did few months ago. (According to Russian maps)







Russians despite throwing huge ressources in the Donbass made marginal gains since "concentrating on the Donbass" despite amassing huge manpower and artillery and outnumbering the Ukrainians on every terms.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Ukrainian President was addressing his country when he issued these proclamations. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543968916510126080


Vergennes said:


> Russia controls less territory in Ukraine than they did few months ago. (According to Russian maps)
> 
> View attachment 859097
> 
> 
> Russians despite throwing huge ressources in the Donbass made marginal gains since "concentrating on the Donbass" despite amassing huge manpower and artillery and outnumbering the Ukrainians on every terms.
> 
> View attachment 859096





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543905613494816769
Let that sink in!

Ukrainians have not gained any territory since April. Stop believing in your bs propaganda.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544004237700505602

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## ckf

Elvin said:


> Some like to blame Zelensky for the war, but refuse to realize that 70% of Ukraine wants to be independent and decide their own future via democratic institutions. I don't support Zelensky as I think he is showing signs of a potential dictator down the road, but to say it is simply one person to blame for Russia's invasion is elementary thinking. Ukraine was peaceful all the while Moscow controlled it via puppet governments, and when the Ukrainian people set themselves free Russia annexed Crimea, instigated a war in the Donbas, used said instigation as a casus belli for the current invasion. I guess for some fighting back is equal to being attacked and supressed.
> 
> A good example and comparison - Ukraine was under indirect Russian control since 1991-2014, Poland decided to pursue an EU path. Ukraine was more developed and wealthy than Poland in 1991. Look at them today, Poland is light years ahead of Ukraine in every category, and they are independent and sovereign. Ukraine never was (1991-2014).
> 
> There is no way to justify Russia's war on Ukraine, and to claim that Russians are fighting for their "existence" is funny, it is more like Putin and his inner circle are fighting for existence.
> 
> The equipment losses Russia has sustained and will sustain is huge for them, billions in losses and they have to spend money to replenish their storage. Eventually money will run out especially when the western sanctions start to be felt in the next few months and especially years. Not to mention the EU decoupling from Russian gas which is yet to be felt.


It's funny how warmongers use popularity contest as barometer of support for War in Ukraine, and frame it as fight for democracy. Why don't u poll the Ukrainians if they support a war with Russia to fight for Donbas and or support Minsk agreement to peace in Donbas? Truth is nobody cares, the puppet masters at Washington pull the strings that tugs Zelensky and his cronies. UA soldiers are just cannon fodders for US/West interests. Does a democracy has to resort to abdication of its citizens to War?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543904340611678209

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544003726297423872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544005025890029569

Another HIMARS strike, supposedly near the rail lines


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543998583925604353
HIMARS is wrecking Russia

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## Elvin

ckf said:


> It's funny how warmongers use popularity contest as barometer of support for War in Ukraine, and frame it as fight for democracy. Why don't u poll the Ukrainians if they support a war with Russia to fight for Donbas and or support Minsk agreement to peace in Donbas? Truth is nobody cares, the puppet masters at Washington pull the strings that tugs Zelensky and his cronies. UA soldiers are just cannon fodders for US/West interests.



Yes the fight the Ukrainians are giving to the Russians is proof enough that they’ve had enough and would rather die then live under their boot.

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## Elvin

Ukraine flag raised on Snake Island.

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## zartosht

jamahir said:


> While I understand your intention to make fun of him we shouldn't be making fun of suicide. Suicide shouldn't be done by anyone unless you are surrounded by 30 dogs who you know are about to tear you apart alive or your remotely-situated room is surrounded by three 30-foot anacondas and you have no way of escape. You know, 350,000+ Indian farmers suicided just between 1995 and 2015 because of the extreme Capitalist nature of Indian society. Tragic and very avoidable just by having a progressive system.



You and your hatred of dogs.... The most noble animal on earth. You need to reform your mindset.


in other news: Russia has given full support to the liberation of of the last remaining syrian lands under turkish/american proxy terrorist occupation. 

On a side note, id be very very nervous if i was one of the american troops occupying the border post between Iraq/Syria trying to (unsucessfully) block Iranian weapons shipments...

They are sitting ducks. If Russian citizens are killed by NATO escalation. Expect some murican occupiers in the region to eat some dirt from the many proxy groups.. Iran is just itching to attack that outpost....

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## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544003726297423872
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544005025890029569
> 
> Another HIMARS strike, supposedly near the rail lines
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543998583925604353
> HIMARS is wrecking Russia



Less than 10 Himars are already decimating Russian ammo depots/HQs/concentration of troops. Now imagine if 50 were in Ukrainian service.

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## ckf

Elvin said:


> Yes the fight the Ukrainians are giving to the Russians is proof enough that they’ve had enough and would rather die then live under their boot.


What will to fight? UA will to fight is getting destroyed in Kherson, Mariupol, Sverondonesk, and lysychansk. No amount of Zelensky comedic lies is going to reverse the tide. It will be ironic that faster UA retreat from Sloviansk and Kramatoske, more lives will be spared.

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## aziqbal

Vergennes said:


> Less than 10 Himars are already decimating Russian ammo depots/HQs/concentration of troops. Now imagine if 50 were in Ukrainian service.



but they just Luhansk ?

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> Less than 10 Himars are already decimating Russian ammo depots/HQs/concentration of troops. Now imagine if 50 were in Ukrainian service.



Only 4 so far, with another 4 in a week or two. Also 9 M270s are coming. Ukrainians are training on the M270 now in the UK.


----------



## Elvin

ckf said:


> What will to fight? UA will to fight is getting destroyed in Kherson, Mariupol, Sverondonesk, and lysychansk. No amount of Zelensky comedic lies is going to reverse the tide. It will be ironic that faster UA retreat from Sloviansk and Kramatoske, more lives will be spared.



Those few cities you mentioned cost Russia Thousands of army vehicles (tanks, ifv, etc.) and tens of thousands of dead and wounded. 

According to your logic why didn’t the US just colonize Iraq? Iraq put up no fight and just bent over and invited the Americans.


----------



## ckf

F-22Raptor said:


> Only 4 so far, with another 4 in a week or two. Also 9 M270s are coming. Ukrainians are training on the M270 now in the UK.


In a month, UA will be complaining the M270 drive trains breaking down often and are not reliable. It will be interesting how many HIMARS will be sent to UA and will it make a difference in battlefield considering they are not tracked and needs air defence. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531697066438557696

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544008027027787776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543994522807537664

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544007018503094273

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544012373714944000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543987697026572288

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## ZeGerman

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Ukrainian President was addressing his country when he issued these proclamations.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543968916510126080
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543905613494816769
> Let that sink in!
> 
> Ukrainians have not gained any territory since April. Stop believing in your bs propaganda.


10 times less casualties? for an attacking force that is bleeding losses that we see shared everyday? For instance oryx? 

Suuurreee. 

In meantime 80% ukraine is fully in western camp. While russia struggles to ethnically cleanse the donbass and then heroically “liberate” those 10-20% remaining pro russians


----------



## MeFishToo

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543905613494816769
> 
> Let that sink in!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The attack took place in the Donetsk oblast, and not in the Kharkiv region as the bot you quoted claimed. There is no also no proof that the Ukrainians hit an ammunition depot.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543961630572130304


Its clearly two different attacks. First one is countryside, second is a city.


----------



## jamahir

ckf said:


> It's funny how warmongers use popularity contest as barometer of support for War in Ukraine, and frame it as fight for democracy. Why don't u poll the Ukrainians if they support a war with Russia to fight for Donbas and or support Minsk agreement to peace in Donbas? Truth is nobody cares, the puppet masters at Washington pull the strings that tugs Zelensky and his cronies. UA soldiers are just cannon fodders for US/West interests. Does a democracy has to resort to abdication of its citizens to War?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543904340611678209



@Akritas, here is another of the examples I said to you about Zelensky forcing Ukrainian civilians to fight. These civilians are grabbed like this and forced to some four-day training camp and marched to the front. If they complain they are taken to destinations unknown.



zartosht said:


> You and your hatred of dogs.... The most noble animal on earth. You need to reform your mindset.



Most Noble Animal On Earth attacking a boy in Jaipur city, India, more than a month ago :





There is just one solution for these filths - global eradication.

@Sharma Ji @DrJekyll, watch the vid.



zartosht said:


> in other news: Russia has given full support to the liberation of of the last remaining syrian lands under turkish/american proxy terrorist occupation.
> 
> On a side note, id be very very nervous if i was one of the american troops occupying the border post between Iraq/Syria trying to (unsucessfully) block Iranian weapons shipments...
> 
> They are sitting ducks. If Russian citizens are killed by NATO escalation. Expect some murican occupiers in the region to eat some dirt from the many proxy groups.. Iran is just itching to attack that outpost....



Fantastic !  The world had forgotten about the 11-year-old Syria war so thanks for bringing it back to notice.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

jamahir said:


> @Akritas, here is another of the examples I said to you about Zelensky forcing Ukrainian civilians to fight. These civilians are grabbed like this and forced to some four-day training camp and marched to the front. If they complain they are taken to destinations unknown.



Ukraine is under marshall law and all able males between 16-60 years age are expected to fight the war. They cannot make excuses and run away.


----------



## jamahir

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Ukraine is under marshall law and all able males between 16-60 years age are expected to fight the war. They cannot make excuses and run away.



Many Ukrainians simply do not want to fight alongside Nazis and nationalists against the Russians. Whichever city was liberated by the Russians and allies the Russians have delivered food, medicine and other supplies to the civilians and the civilians thanked the deliverers, they weren't hostile.

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## Viet

ZeGerman said:


> 10 times less casualties? for an attacking force that is bleeding losses that we see shared everyday? For instance oryx?
> 
> Suuurreee.
> 
> In meantime 80% ukraine is fully in western camp. While russia struggles to ethnically cleanse the donbass and then heroically “liberate” those 10-20% remaining pro russians


Russian soldiers run on drugs that is why they can’t be dead. nobody believes to such shit propaganda. Seriously, Russia army relies much on the neonazi Wagner group. They do the dirty jobs on the front lines.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544018578680291332


----------



## Viet

“Without Wagner, the Russia army is not a serious military power.”

- Marat Gabidullin, ex commander of Wagner group









Ex-Söldner: „Ohne Wagner ist die russische Armee nicht ernstzunehmen“ - WELT


Vier Jahre kämpfte Marat Gabidullin für die berüchtigte russische Gruppe Wagner in der Ukraine und in Syrien. Inzwischen hat der ehemalige Kommandeur Russland verlassen. Als erster Ex-Söldner berichtet er detailliert von seinem „Job“ für den Kreml.




www.welt.de

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## Paul2

Elvin said:


> Those few cities you mentioned cost Russia Thousands of army vehicles (tanks, ifv, etc.) and tens of thousands of dead and wounded.
> 
> According to your logic why didn’t the US just colonize Iraq? Iraq put up no fight and just bent over and invited the Americans.



It was Kiyv which cost Russia thousands of vehicles.

The combat slowed down significantly after.

Russians no longer lose vehicles due to logistic exhaustion because they don't move much, nor they happily drive into killboxes, and ATGM lines anymore.

American hesitancy to provide more Himars ammo is really laughable now when they can literally erase a double digit percentage of Russian combat power for a price of only one F35 wing.

Same with US refusing to send PGKs, which cost near nothing. 1 tonne of PKG shells erases $100m in Russian military hardware. An economy ratio is pretty much that of 200 to 1 - an absolutely bonkers advantage Biden refused to use.

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## ckf

Paul2 said:


> It was Kiyv which cost Russia thousands of vehicles.
> 
> The combat slowed down significantly after.
> 
> Russians no longer lose vehicles due to logistic exhaustion because they don't move much, nor they happily drive into killboxes, and ATGM lines anymore.
> 
> American hesitancy to provide more Himars ammo is really laughable now when they can literally erase a double digit percentage of Russian combat power for a price of only one F35 wing.
> 
> Same with US refusing to send PGKs, which cost near nothing. 1 tonne of PKG shells erases $100m in Russian military hardware. An economic damage ratio is pretty much that of 200 to 1 - an absolutely bonkers advantage Biden refused to use.


I am sure Russia got more toys of destruction that can level Ukranian positions as well. The brutality of this war will have no boundaries, and escalation to tactical nukes only matter of time. Europe will sustain the greatest damage it that's the case.

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## Paul2

I repeat Russia is losing billions, and billions of dollars in military hardware, ammo, supplies, and troops every month of this war. It's their military which they spent 1 trillion dollars to rearm, and rebuild since 2000.

Why Russia is not limiting its losses? Because Putin has no second chance. He will never ever be able to wage war in his lifetime, so he feels free to spend Russian army to the last soldier.

Even more despicable than the conduct of Russian soldiers is that of their general staff, they are literally wasting decades worth of experience, and their best, and brightest in the vainglorious zerg rush.

Russia really risks to cease its existence as a nation with so much of leadership cadres lost. Whatever is left of Russia will be led by people who were too dim, sickly, and cowardly for military service.

The History shows that nations who completely lost their elites don't have long to live.

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## kingQamaR

ckf said:


> It's funny how warmongers use popularity contest as barometer of support for War in Ukraine, and frame it as fight for democracy. Why don't u poll the Ukrainians if they support a war with Russia to fight for Donbas and or support Minsk agreement to peace in Donbas? Truth is nobody cares, the puppet masters at Washington pull the strings that tugs Zelensky and his cronies. UA soldiers are just cannon fodders for US/West interests. Does a democracy has to resort to abdication of its citizens to War?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543904340611678209



Russian drone alert. So, the thousands of young Russian, conscript soldiers dying on Ukraine's territory against their wills is ok? But, Ukrainians fighting for their own land is...wrong? Perhaps you should have told the defenders of Stalingrad that in WW2. You Russians are so deluded its pitiful

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## ARMalik

News of Russia moving quickly towards Silversk. The whole Donbass region will fall !

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544074312067465221

Germany announces a delivery of 4 M270s


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544015117389631490

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544016163801387009


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544087601073819650
Another HIMARS strike on ammo dump


----------



## ckf

kingQamaR said:


> Russian drone alert. So, the thousands of young Russian, conscript soldiers dying on Ukraine's territory against their wills is ok? But, Ukrainians fighting for their own land is...wrong? Perhaps you should have told the defenders of Stalingrad that in WW2. You Russians are so deluded its pitiful


LOL, bunch of nonsense. Get some shrooms and hit some ghenge and chill a bit. Here's what I think and not the moral coconut arguments you seem to be delusional about. Every war is a tragedy, and should be avoided, and every death Russian or Ukrainian breaks my heart and this war should end as soon as possible. Not to mention billions affected by high energy prices around the world so financiers/traders/Weapons manufacturers in London and New York can make billions from suffering of innocent people. Capiche.









Ukraine’s moral waters get muddier and bloodier


As Ukraine and Russia grapple for the moral high ground in the global court of public opinion, Israel has aimed unusually undiplomatic language at Ukraine’s ambassador to Germany. Last week, in an …




asiatimes.com

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## The SC

After Lyschansk, Russian forces storm Kharkiv






Shoigu:
Ukrainian forces left 39 tanks and other armored vehicles, 11 guns and mortars and 48 anti-tank missile systems in Lysichansk during the withdrawal, and the total losses of Ukrainian forces in two weeks amounted to more than 5 thousand fighters.
@Cassan_Kozlov

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543906580814614529


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544079323317035013

Ukrainian bombing of the Donetsk train station market.
@khalediskef

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544013088193712128

Lavrov:
US freezing of state assets is outright theft
@Cassan_Kozlov

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## The SC

The Russian army continues to bombard eastern Ukraine and is advancing to control the Donbass region











Ukrainian Foreign Minister 🇺🇦:
The West should explain to us why Ukraine could not join NATO, while Sweden and Finland did!
@rzc_o8


Germany posts its first monthly trade deficit in more than 3 decades due to rising energy costs.
@aooooraaa

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## beast89

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544074312067465221
> 
> Germany announces a delivery of 4 M270s


Germany is on Russia's side. How long is Olaf gonna fool his people.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543937274542424065

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542611247337725952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543670745859067911

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544097197968474112


----------



## beast89

The SC said:


> After Lyschansk, Russian forces storm Kharkiv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shoigu:
> Ukrainian forces left 39 tanks and other armored vehicles, 11 guns and mortars and 48 anti-tank missile systems in Lysichansk during the withdrawal, and the total losses of Ukrainian forces in two weeks amounted to more than 5 thousand fighters.
> @Cassan_Kozlov
> 
> 
> Today, Finland and Sweden have completed in one round negotiations to join NATO, and tomorrow the accession protocol will be officially signed.
> @soldier2017kg
> View attachment 859152
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian bombing of the Donetsk train station market.
> @khalediskef
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544013088193712128
> 
> Lavrov:
> US freezing of state assets is outright theft
> @Cassan_Kozlov


Slap on the face to Ukraine by Nato


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544090897859616769

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544089908687634432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544085202393341959

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544082679213195265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544082511923380226

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544080885422727170

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544078536738279428

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544079206342074368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544078795187052545

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## ARMalik

Well now even the US major channel ABC News is reporting this !!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544051774155329543

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544076136463978496

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544047605956632576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543909237927059456

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543653311152275457

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544078162253971459

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544077701979508737

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544076590472200192

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544076684403609601

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## kingQamaR

ckf said:


> LOL, bunch of nonsense. Get some shrooms and hit some ghenge and chill a bit. Here's what I think and not the moral coconut arguments you seem to be delusional about. Every war is a tragedy, and should be avoided, and every death Russian or Ukrainian breaks my heart and this war should end as soon as possible. Not to mention billions affected by high energy prices around the world so financiers/traders/Weapons manufacturers in London and New York can make billions from suffering of innocent people. Capiche.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine’s moral waters get muddier and bloodier
> 
> 
> As Ukraine and Russia grapple for the moral high ground in the global court of public opinion, Israel has aimed unusually undiplomatic language at Ukraine’s ambassador to Germany. Last week, in an …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asiatimes.com



More nonsense from desperate Russian drones trying to justify their unthinkable crimes against humanity. how embarrassingly misinformed do you have to be to believe this tosh - but papa Putin and his media stooges told me..... Oh no, poor Russian babies - Ukraine didn't like you language and cultural influence boo hoo, sob sob - let's bomb the hell out of them in response. Infantile justification.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544064705387429888

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544074962914385921

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544069643706433536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544032292628271109

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543996702356656128

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543750600822820864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543750602383130626


ZeGerman said:


> 10 times less casualties? for an attacking force that is bleeding losses that we see shared everyday? For instance oryx?
> 
> Suuurreee.
> 
> In meantime 80% ukraine is fully in western camp. While russia struggles to ethnically cleanse the donbass and then heroically “liberate” those 10-20% remaining pro russians





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543536774231851008

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544123983070732288

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544019343960424449

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## MH.Yang

jhungary said:


> First of all TASS lol.....
> 
> Second of all, even if that is true, as I said, they can held up to a point when the East broke thru or Sloviansk/Kramatorsk threaten, and they broke thru from the East, what are you suppose to do? Leave them in place so they can be slaughtered?
> 
> The fact that the combine effort of Sieverodonetsk and Lysychansk held down the Russian for almost 2 months that the material and time the Russian wasted on the offensive.


That's what I said:







That's what you said:

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## _Nabil_

MH.Yang said:


> That's what I said:
> 
> View attachment 859158
> 
> 
> That's what you said:
> 
> View attachment 859159
> 
> View attachment 859160


Busted 😁🤣

In another matter, 









Sergey Eliseev will head the government of the Kherson region Russian news EN - GAMINGDEPUTY


… Sergey Eliseev will head the government of the Kherson region Russian news EN Read More »



www.gamingdeputy.com





Former first deputy head of the government of the Kaliningrad region Sergey Eliseev has been appointed head of the government of the Kherson region

Means Kherson is Russian ✌️

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## ckf

MH.Yang said:


> That's what I said:
> 
> View attachment 859158
> 
> 
> That's what you said:
> 
> View attachment 859159
> 
> View attachment 859160


When Zelensky replaced its top general, military acumen was obviously lacking in Ukraine command structure. It was a very odd situation that Ukraine was trying desperately to hold on to both Severodonesk and Lysychansk by sending in more and more troops into a clear pocket trap. That entire line was not defensible when Popasana fell. You could even argue the Luhansk line not defensible from the start when Russia focused its troops in the regions late April. 









Ukraine’s President Zelenskyy replaces head of Territorial Defense Forces


Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has replaced the head of its Territorial Defense Forces nearly three months into the war with Russia without giving




english.alarabiya.net





Alex argued that Military command is being given to NATO and the reason more and more troops being sent into Donbas was a publicity stunt to garner support of war in the west. US intelligence truly believed that Russian Logistics would not be able to quickly overcome Ukraine defense, and that the longer war goes on, and if Ukraine can hold off Russia in the East, Western media will support a "winning war".


----------



## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544074962914385921
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544069643706433536
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544032292628271109
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543996702356656128


Zelinskki said the battles at Donbas will be the key of the war in the coming weeks. Ukraine withdrawal from positions they can’t hold longer is a logical step. Being encircled and annihilated by Russia army would be worse off.
Russians occupy the cities, villages after 99 percent get destroyed they can’t survive thru the winter and constant attacks.


----------



## ckf

kingQamaR said:


> More nonsense from desperate Russian drones trying to justify their unthinkable crimes against humanity. how embarrassingly misinformed do you have to be to believe this tosh - but papa Putin and his media stooges told me..... Oh no, poor Russian babies - Ukraine didn't like you language and cultural influence boo hoo, sob sob - let's bomb the hell out of them in response. Infantile justification.


This was an avoidable war, whether blame is on Putin, Biden or Zelensky, it's trivial and all parties had a share in Ukraine's misery.. But diplomacy was on the table and many of the details will be out in the future. Macron's aids leaked some details recently. I really don't give a damn what u think.









Inside Emmanuel Macron’s failed one-man diplomacy mission on Ukraine


A behind-the-scenes documentary on Macron’s diplomatic efforts to stop the war in Ukraine exposes diplomatic failures and a hyper-personalized approach to foreign policy.




www.politico.eu


----------



## Viet

ckf said:


> This was an avoidable war, whether blame is on Putin, Biden or Zelensky, it's trivial and all parties had a share in Ukraine's misery.. But diplomacy was on the table and many of the details will be out in the future. Macron's aids leaked some details recently. I really don't give a damn what u think and just presenting the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inside Emmanuel Macron’s failed one-man diplomacy mission on Ukraine
> 
> 
> A behind-the-scenes documentary on Macron’s diplomatic efforts to stop the war in Ukraine exposes diplomatic failures and a hyper-personalized approach to foreign policy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.politico.eu


That is wrong, pure propaganda. No, the war is not avoidable. Putin made the decision to go to war by late summer last year. The demands by Russia towards Ukraine, US, EU, Nato are unacceptable. Putin demands unconditional surrender. There is no room for negotiation. Nil.

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## ARMalik

The war is going to speed up. WHY? Because the capture of Lisichansk and areas around it would* STRAIGHTEN THE SUPPLY ROUTES OF RUSSIAN MILITARY !! IT WILL GIVE RUSSIA ACCESS TO RAILWAY, ROADS AND BRIDGES*. Just have a look at Lisichansk and the areas around it.

The whole region of Donbass will fall soon. The cities of *Karkiv and Poltava *are in imminent danger. *It appears that Russia will go all the way to Dnipro River !!! Don't be surprised if Kyiv is divided into two cities with the Dnipro River acting as a Bounder .*

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## kingQamaR

ckf said:


> This was an avoidable war, whether blame is on Putin, Biden or Zelensky, it's trivial and all parties had a share in Ukraine's misery.. But diplomacy was on the table and many of the details will be out in the future. Macron's aids leaked some details recently. I really don't give a damn what u think and just presenting the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inside Emmanuel Macron’s failed one-man diplomacy mission on Ukraine
> 
> 
> A behind-the-scenes documentary on Macron’s diplomatic efforts to stop the war in Ukraine exposes diplomatic failures and a hyper-personalized approach to foreign policy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.politico.eu



- dear god, does this win 1st prize for the most idiotic comment so far? The Ukraines cunning plan apparently is to lose on purpose to lull the russians into a false sense of security

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## MH.Yang

ckf said:


> When Zelensky replaced its top general, military acumen was obviously lacking in Ukraine command structure. It was a very odd situation that Ukraine was trying desperately to hold on to both Severodonesk and Lysychansk by sending in more and more troops into a clear pocket trap. That entire line was not defensible when Popasana fell. You could even argue the Luhansk line not defensible from the start when Russia focused its troops in the regions late April.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine’s President Zelenskyy replaces head of Territorial Defense Forces
> 
> 
> Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has replaced the head of its Territorial Defense Forces nearly three months into the war with Russia without giving
> 
> 
> 
> 
> english.alarabiya.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alex argued that Military command is being given to NATO and the reason more and more troops being sent into Donbas was a publicity stunt to garner support of war in the west. US intelligence truly believed that Russian Logistics would not be able to quickly overcome Ukraine defense, and that the longer war goes on, and if Ukraine can hold off Russia in the East, Western media will support a "winning war".


There is also news from China that the real commander of the Ukrainian government is Hillary Clinton. 

The war of Ukrainian govt forces in Donetsk is indeed irrational. In the case of inferior equipment, they should not choose to fight a decisive battle in a place without the support of the local people. 

At present, more than 50000 soldiers in the Ukrainian army have been killed, and few of their elite troops are left. And the Ukrainian govt has forcibly recruited women into the army now. That is the result of strategic failure.

But for Hillary Clinton, the war in Donetsk was for political victory, not strategic victory. Both Ukrainians and Russians are Slavs. No matter how many people die, Hillary won't care.

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## ZeGerman

MH.Yang said:


> There is also news from China that the real commander of the Ukrainian government is Hillary Clinton.
> 
> The war of Ukrainian govt forces in Donetsk is indeed irrational. In the case of inferior equipment, they should not choose to fight a decisive battle in a place without the support of the local people.
> 
> At present, more than 50000 soldiers in the Ukrainian army have been killed, and few of their elite troops are left. And the Ukrainian govt has forcibly recruited women into the army now. That is the result of strategic failure.
> 
> But for Hillary Clinton, the war in Donetsk was for political victory, not strategic victory. Both Ukrainians and Russians are Slavs. No matter how many people die, Hillary won't care.


hmm russian sources claim the best ukranian troops are being killed, but at the same time the russian propaganda showing ukranian troops with lower morale/material are constantly the territorial defence force. 

So Ukraine is bolstering these ranks with less trained troops.
It is weird though that they chose to stand amd fight in areas where:
1: they risk encirclement or their supply lines are under fire
2: the russians have finished massing their artillery/drones and you are severely outnumbered.

but from political standpoint i can understand it. Zelenski is buying time and support. More and more western weapons are being shipped. 

Once they lose donbass Putin might call an end to his “special operation” . And then with gas/oil as pressure i think several european countries might prefer/push ukraine to settle for a peace deal.
Ukranians did not forget how fast germany and others went back to “business as usual” after crimea. 

What suprises me is the relatively slow reaction of america. Geopolitically this is a major chance for them to damage russia and the eu in one go. And get eu dependant/paying for their LNG shipments.


----------



## MH.Yang

ZeGerman said:


> hmm russian sources claim the best ukranian troops are being killed, but at the same time the russian propaganda showing ukranian troops with lower morale/material are constantly the territorial defence force.
> 
> So Ukraine is bolstering these ranks with less trained troops.
> It is weird though that they chose to stand amd fight in areas where:
> 1: they risk encirclement or their supply lines are under fire
> 2: the russians have finished massing their artillery/drones and you are severely outnumbered.
> 
> but from political standpoint i can understand it. Zelenski is buying time and support. More and more western weapons are being shipped.
> 
> Once they lose donbass Putin might call an end to his “special operation” . And then with gas/oil as pressure i think several european countries might prefer/push ukraine to settle for a peace deal.
> Ukranians did not forget how fast germany and others went back to “business as usual” after crimea.
> 
> What suprises me is the relatively slow reaction of america. Geopolitically this is a major chance for them to damage russia and the eu in one go. And get eu dependant/paying for their LNG shipments.


If Americans really want to help Europe solve the Russian problem, it is actually very easy. Dissolve NATO and let Russia join the EU, the troops stationed in Europe were transferred to East Asia. 

Of course, Americans will definitely not do so. This means that the EU will surpass the USA as the most powerful political and economic entity. So Americans have repeatedly used the Russian problem to tighten the necks of Europeans. 

And Merkel, the best leader in Europe after WW2, also retired. If Merkel is 10 years younger, the Russian problem can also be solved. Merkel has enough ability and influence to sign a new <molotov Ribbentrop pact> with Russia. It is enough for both sides to clearly divide the sphere of influence between the EU and Russia.

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## Viet

MH.Yang said:


> There is also news from China that the real commander of the Ukrainian government is Hillary Clinton.
> 
> The war of Ukrainian govt forces in Donetsk is indeed irrational. In the case of inferior equipment, they should not choose to fight a decisive battle in a place without the support of the local people.
> 
> At present, more than 50000 soldiers in the Ukrainian army have been killed, and few of their elite troops are left. And the Ukrainian govt has forcibly recruited women into the army now. That is the result of strategic failure.
> 
> But for Hillary Clinton, the war in Donetsk was for political victory, not strategic victory. Both Ukrainians and Russians are Slavs. No matter how many people die, Hillary won't care.


Ukraine is ruled by a nazi Jew.
(Source: Kremlin)

Ukraine army is commanded by Hilary Clinton.
(Source: Xinhua)

The Moon is not cheese but chinese.
(Source: chinese posters)

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## sammuel

MH.Yang said:


> If Americans really want to help Europe solve the Russian problem, it is actually very easy. Dissolve NATO and let Russia join the EU,



You know there are minimum conditions to join the EU.

The most basic requirement is that only stable democracies can join the EU.

Does Russia today seems to you a " stable democracy " ? ? ?












Conditions for membership


Conditions for membership




ec.europa.eu






~


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544025752802414595

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## jamahir

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543937274542424065



And the crowdfunding will be a waste because the drone will be shot down soon.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544064705387429888



@jhungary, you did not believe me when I said the Ukrainian civilians welcome the Russians and allies in the liberated cities.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543750600822820864
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543750602383130626



@Akritas @Apollon, this is the way of the Russian and allied fighters - not to harm the Ukrainian civilians, unlike the fanatics among the Ukrainian military who commit war crimes.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544078162253971459



Nice to see ANNA news agency back on the internet. It did wonderful work in showing the Syrian government side and Russian side in the Syria war until ANNA was banned from YouTube.



The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543996702356656128



 



Viet said:


> Ukraine is ruled by a nazi Jew.
> (Source: Kremlin)
> 
> Ukraine army is commanded by Hilary Clinton.
> (Source: Xinhua)
> 
> The Moon is not cheese but chinese.
> (Source: chinese posters)



The last is incorrect but the first two are correct.



sammuel said:


> You know there are minimum conditions to join the EU.
> 
> The most basic requirement is that only stable democracies can join the EU.
> 
> Does Russia today seems to you a " stable democracy " ? ? ?



How would you describe a democracy ?

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## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> That's what I said:
> 
> View attachment 859158
> 
> 
> That's what you said:
> 
> View attachment 859159
> 
> View attachment 859160


Do tell me if the Russian captured Lysychansk in a frontal assault from Sieverodonetsk? The one that I have said and for your convivence Circled in the post








When I wrote that on 26 May, Russia had not yet broke out from Popasna, that changed since that day. Here are the progress of Russian advance in Popasna

June 26






June 27






June 28





June 29






June 30







Going back to my original post, The Position in Lysychansk is defendable as long as

1.) Sloviansk and Kramatorsk is *NOT* threaten
2.) Russia did not break thru from Poposna

And Russia DID Break thru from Poposna, what do you want me to say??

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> @jhungary
> The U.S. should give the Ukrainians more HIMARS or M270s along with ATACMS since the U.S. Army is replacing them with PRSMs soon. They could easily hit the ships in Sevastopol where the Russian ships and submarines are reloading the cruise missiles to launch them at the cities especially Odessa. Even hit where they keep the cruise missiles at. One of the main reasons why the Russians wanted to take Crimea back in 2014 for its location. Also used them against distant targets where the supply points are at along with helo and aircraft bases in occupied areas.


They need something that can turn the tides. Not just MLRS.

MLRS has been doing the Ukrainian good (It is probably the sole reason why Russia "withdraw" from Snake Island. 

Problem is, we need to give them more, and as I said, the US should have give the Ukrainian all the Marine M270 (They have around 70 MLRS in storage after switching to HIMARS) Most analyst said they only need 60 to turn the tide of battle. 

If I am the Ukrainian, I will probably try to retake Kherson first, they are now within Artillery range, the Ukrainian are probably thinking about what they should do, if this is the US, we will take the airport first, and then use the airport 5 mile North of the city to use as a supply base and go down to Kherson with heavy artillery and MLRS cover. 

Not sure if this is true, but local channel (Telegram and Instagram) tell the TDF and Ukrainian force to get ready for Assault in the next 2 weeks.

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## vi-va

ARMalik said:


> The war is going to speed up. WHY? Because the capture of Lisichansk and areas around it would* STRAIGHTEN THE SUPPLY ROUTES OF RUSSIAN MILITARY !! IT WILL GIVE RUSSIA ACCESS TO RAILWAY, ROADS AND BRIDGES*. Just have a look at Lisichansk and the areas around it.
> 
> The whole region of Donbass will fall soon. The cities of *Karkiv and Poltava *are in imminent danger. *It appears that Russia will go all the way to Dnipro River !!! Don't be surprised if Kyiv is divided into two cities with the Dnipro River acting as a Bounder .*


I think Ukraine War will last much longer than your estimation. Russia only throw 200,000 troops into the war, less than 1/3 of Pakistan Army.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544117338068471808

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544130673467965443

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544221127236526082

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544199900082176001

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544066054305054720

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544193684807319555

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544234603405352962

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544200292610236417

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544181890550304768

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544177629837803520


----------



## Soldier35

Russia uses guns against PAX STUPOR drones in Ukraine. To combat the drones, the allied forces of the Russian military began to use guns against the STUPOR drones in Ukraine. The complex against drones PARS "STUPOR" emits electromagnetic impulses and suppresses the control channels of drones. To neutralize the drone, you need to press and hold the button on the weapon, the drone loses contact with the operator and, depending on the drone model, can smoothly land, hover, or return to the operator. Weapons against drones operate at ranges up to 1500 meters and suppress the reception of signals from all types of navigation satellites. The charge of the weapon is enough for 4 hours and it is available for free sale, the price is about 10 thousand dollars.






Russian army units, the Chechen Akhmat regiment, captured four Ukrainian Varta armored vehicles. The vehicles are based on the MAZ-5434 truck and have enhanced mine protection, the armored vehicle is capable of transporting eight soldiers, including crew members. It is not clear for what reason the vehicles were abandoned, the Varta armored vehicles are 2018 and fully operational. According to preliminary data, the trophies of the Russian army will be sent to the front to strengthen the units of the Russian army.






Published footage of the impact of the Russian ATGM crew from a distance of 3500 meters on a military truck of the Ukrainian army.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544250143825862656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544245834367340545

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544243749055873025

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544243348671807489

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544243337829515264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544242106834771968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544241070657118208

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## Hack-Hook

sammuel said:


> You know there are minimum conditions to join the EU.
> 
> The most basic requirement is that only stable democracies can join the EU.
> 
> Does Russia today seems to you a " stable democracy " ? ? ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Conditions for membership
> 
> 
> Conditions for membership
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ec.europa.eu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~


did Ukraine ever looked like a stable democracy in all its history ?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544288075811102720

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544273528077287427

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544285937156460545

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544287405502521344

Another huge HIMARS strike on Russian ammo dump in Donetsk

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## MH.Yang

Hack-Hook said:


> did Ukraine ever looked like a stable democracy in all its history ?


@sammuel means that USA has the veto power of the EU, because USA has the right to review the qualifications of democratic countries.

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## sammuel

MH.Yang said:


> @sammuel means that USA has the veto power of the EU, because USA has the right to review the qualifications of democratic countries.



For sure democracy is not a country that has been ruled by the same putin/dictator , for the last 22 years , and recently have abolished free press in his country all together.

Russian Journalist Accused Of Discrediting Army Sent To Psychiatric Hospital​








Russian journalist Maria Ponomarenko, who was detained in St. Petersburg in April on accusations of discrediting the Russian armed forces in social-media posts about the war in Ukraine, has been transferred to a Siberian psychiatric hospital, her lawyer reported on July 2.

Lawyer Sergei Podolsky said Ponomarenko will be evaluated at the Altai Clinical Psychological Hospital for 28 days.

Ponomarenko, who lives and works in the Altai region city of Barnaul and is the mother of two young children, was transferred from St. Petersburg to Barnaul late last month.

“Today I went there and handed over a parcel for her,” Novosibirsk activist Yana Drobhokhod told RFE/RL. “She is not allowed to receive letters or visits from relatives. She is allowed to meet with her lawyers.”

Ponomarenko faces up to 10 years in prison for a Telegram post about the Russian bombing of a theater in the Ukrainian city of Mariupol in which hundreds of civilians were killed. A Russian law passed in March criminalizes the dissemination of "fake" reports that "discredit the armed forces."









Russian Journalist Accused Of Discrediting Army Sent To Psychiatric Hospital


Russian journalist Maria Ponomarenko, who was detained in St. Petersburg in April on accusations of discrediting the Russian armed forces in social-media posts about the war in Ukraine, has been transferred to a Siberian psychiatric hospital, her lawyer reported on July 2.




www.rferl.org

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## MH.Yang

sammuel said:


> For sure democracy is not a country that has been ruled by the same dictator for the last 22 years and recently have abolished free press in his country all together.
> 
> Russian Journalist Accused Of Discrediting Army Sent To Psychiatric Hospital​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian journalist Maria Ponomarenko, who was detained in St. Petersburg in April on accusations of discrediting the Russian armed forces in social-media posts about the war in Ukraine, has been transferred to a Siberian psychiatric hospital, her lawyer reported on July 2.
> 
> Lawyer Sergei Podolsky said Ponomarenko will be evaluated at the Altai Clinical Psychological Hospital for 28 days.
> 
> Ponomarenko, who lives and works in the Altai region city of Barnaul and is the mother of two young children, was transferred from St. Petersburg to Barnaul late last month.
> 
> “Today I went there and handed over a parcel for her,” Novosibirsk activist Yana Drobhokhod told RFE/RL. “She is not allowed to receive letters or visits from relatives. She is allowed to meet with her lawyers.”
> 
> Ponomarenko faces up to 10 years in prison for a Telegram post about the Russian bombing of a theater in the Ukrainian city of Mariupol in which hundreds of civilians were killed. A Russian law passed in March criminalizes the dissemination of "fake" reports that "discredit the armed forces."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Journalist Accused Of Discrediting Army Sent To Psychiatric Hospital
> 
> 
> Russian journalist Maria Ponomarenko, who was detained in St. Petersburg in April on accusations of discrediting the Russian armed forces in social-media posts about the war in Ukraine, has been transferred to a Siberian psychiatric hospital, her lawyer reported on July 2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rferl.org


Come on.

In fact, we all know that the reason why Putin has received high support for a long time is that Russians lack a sense of security, so they pursue a strong president. This insecurity comes from NATO.

In other words, the USA forced the Russians to choose Putin.

Scolding the president is nothing. Unlike what you think, Chinese people can also scold Xi JingPinf.
But dare you scold the president's backstage? Dare you scold the Jewish plutocrats and Israel? I remember 10 years ago, an official of the British Foreign Office was sentenced to seven years in prison for scolding Israel.

And the woman you said was arrested for rumors. If a reporter in your country rumors that you are using living people for secret human experiments, will she be arrested?

As far as I know, the Australian government has also arrested journalists who reported that Australian special forces killed innocent Afghans. This is not a reporter who made up rumors, but he was still arrested by the so-called democratic govt.

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## Akritas

Hack-Hook said:


> did Ukraine ever looked like a stable democracy in all its history ?


Did Russia ever have?


----------



## MH.Yang

sammuel said:


> For sure democracy is not a country that has been ruled by the same putin/dictator , for the last 22 years , and recently have abolished free press in his country all together.
> 
> Russian Journalist Accused Of Discrediting Army Sent To Psychiatric Hospital​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian journalist Maria Ponomarenko, who was detained in St. Petersburg in April on accusations of discrediting the Russian armed forces in social-media posts about the war in Ukraine, has been transferred to a Siberian psychiatric hospital, her lawyer reported on July 2.
> 
> Lawyer Sergei Podolsky said Ponomarenko will be evaluated at the Altai Clinical Psychological Hospital for 28 days.
> 
> Ponomarenko, who lives and works in the Altai region city of Barnaul and is the mother of two young children, was transferred from St. Petersburg to Barnaul late last month.
> 
> “Today I went there and handed over a parcel for her,” Novosibirsk activist Yana Drobhokhod told RFE/RL. “She is not allowed to receive letters or visits from relatives. She is allowed to meet with her lawyers.”
> 
> Ponomarenko faces up to 10 years in prison for a Telegram post about the Russian bombing of a theater in the Ukrainian city of Mariupol in which hundreds of civilians were killed. A Russian law passed in March criminalizes the dissemination of "fake" reports that "discredit the armed forces."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Journalist Accused Of Discrediting Army Sent To Psychiatric Hospital
> 
> 
> Russian journalist Maria Ponomarenko, who was detained in St. Petersburg in April on accusations of discrediting the Russian armed forces in social-media posts about the war in Ukraine, has been transferred to a Siberian psychiatric hospital, her lawyer reported on July 2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rferl.org


In addition, the so-called "democratic state" is not just a definition of Americans. Chinese people also have it. Dare you listen? 

The Chinese believe that the state is the tool used by the ruling group to rule the ruled group. A democratic country means that the ruling group is the people, and the people rule the plutocrats with the tool of the state. 

The country where the plutocrats rule the people through the state is not a democratic country.

Now you tell me honestly, China and the USA, which country's ruling group is the plutocrats? Which country's ruling group is the people?

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## Hack-Hook

Akritas said:


> Did Russia ever have?


did Russia ever wanted to be part of EU ?

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## Akritas

MH.Yang said:


> In addition, the so-called "democratic state" is not just a definition of Americans. Chinese people also have it. Dare you listen?
> 
> The Chinese believe that the state is the tool used by the ruling group to rule the ruled group. A democratic country means that the ruling group is the people, and the people rule the plutocrats with the tool of the state.
> 
> The country where the plutocrats rule the people through the state is not a democratic country.



*'Democratic State"* means that there is a government by the people via free electoral system.
Anything else is not a democratic state.
*Democracy is the polity* where power originates from the people, is exercised by the people and serves the interests of the people.

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## MH.Yang

Akritas said:


> *'Democratic State"* means that there is a government by the people via free electoral system.
> Anything else is not a democratic state.
> *Democracy is the polity* where power originates from the people, is exercised by the people and serves the interests of the people.


What is the exact definition of "democratic election"? 
Wall street takes out two rotten apples and gives you the freedom to choose one from two. Is this a democratic election?

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## ZeGerman

MH.Yang said:


> In addition, the so-called "democratic state" is not just a definition of Americans. Chinese people also have it. Dare you listen?
> 
> The Chinese believe that the state is the tool used by the ruling group to rule the ruled group. A democratic country means that the ruling group is the people, and the people rule the plutocrats with the tool of the state.
> 
> The country where the plutocrats rule the people through the state is not a democratic country.
> 
> Now you tell me honestly, China and the USA, which country's ruling group is the plutocrats? Which country's ruling group is the people?


Yes we know all about how “democratic” those one party/communist dictatorships are. 

From Stalin proclaiming the ussr the most democratic country, to north korea, to Pol pot democratically sending his people to die, to Mao’s “democratic” rule which led to the deaths of millions. 

“I am the sole voice of the people” is a cause for great concern, not something to boast about…..

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Akritas said:


> *'Democratic State"* means that there is a government by the people via free electoral system.
> Anything else is not a democratic state.
> *Democracy is the polity* where power originates from the people, is exercised by the people and serves the interests of the people.



What is your definition of people?


----------



## ZeGerman

jamahir said:


> @jhungary, you did not believe me when I said the Ukrainian civilians welcome the Russians and allies in the liberated cities.


Let me fix it for you:
“The ethnic russian fifth column that stayed while the invaders ethnically cleansed the area welcome the russians”


jamahir said:


> @Akritas @Apollon, this is the way of the Russian and allied fighters - not to harm the Ukrainian civilians, unlike the fanatics among the Ukrainian military who commit war crimes.


Even conservative sources point out that majority of civilian deaths are caused by russia, and before that the russian seperatists. 

No wonder considering the russian MO of fighting in afghanistan, chechnia, syria….


jamahir said:


> How would you describe a democracy ?



You do realise that most european countries score much better on social mobility, chances, distribution of wealth then your “paradise russia”. Where putin usurped power and wealth, and there are a multitude of oligachs with their million dollar yaughts? 

Communist theory most often has been historically abused by those in power, to absolutely trample over the lifes and rights of its “people”. In many ways europe is far more truly socialist then russia or china. 
Even after the latest trend of liberalism.


----------



## ckf

Akritas said:


> *'Democratic State"* means that there is a government by the people via free electoral system.
> Anything else is not a democratic state.
> *Democracy is the polity* where power originates from the people, is exercised by the people and serves the interests of the people.





ZeGerman said:


> Yes we know all about how “democratic” those one party/communist dictatorships are.
> 
> From Stalin proclaiming the ussr the most democratic country, to north korea, to Pol pot democratically sending his people to die, to Mao’s “democratic” rule which led to the deaths of millions.
> 
> “I am the sole voice of the people” is a cause for great concern, not something to boast about…..


The issue should never be about "Democracy", "Socialism" or " Communism", all of these ideology arise due to inequality at the time. Unfortunately human emotions/greed/sins stand in the way of any political entity/system. Power corrupts absolutely. So this debate is quite pointless and only flamed by political propaganda. My view is that it's better to have competing ideology to check the power of all governments. The argument should be about Unipolar vs Multipolar + Regionalism vs Globalization. Ukraine Russia war clearly points to an inflection point where the power of US led unipolar coalition are being tested. Russia clearly wants to establish a new multipolar world order to challenge the Americans/EU.

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## MH.Yang

ZeGerman said:


> Yes we know all about how “democratic” those one party/communist dictatorships are.
> 
> From Stalin proclaiming the ussr the most democratic country, to north korea, to Pol pot democratically sending his people to die, to Mao’s “democratic” rule which led to the deaths of millions.
> 
> “I am the sole voice of the people” is a cause for great concern, not something to boast about…..


You don't understand Mao Zedong, and I'm not interested in explaining the famine of 1958/1961 to you. If you think that the death caused by famine is Mao Zedong's massacre, and the death caused by the great depression in 1929/1933 is not a massacre. It's up to you. 

You say that China is a dictatorship, but the descendants of Mao Zedong are historians, and the successor of Mao Zedong is Deng Xiaoping. 
The descendants of Deng Xiaoping are the staff of the disabled persons' Federation, and the successor of Deng Xiaoping is Jiang Zemin. 
Jiang Zemin's descendants are engineering professors, and Jiang Zemin's successor is Hu Jintao. 
Hu Jintao's descendant is a tour guide, Hu Jintao's successor is Xi Jingping, and Xi Jingping's daughter is a researcher at the Translation Institute.

China has never had two Bush presidents, two Adams presidents, two Harrison presidents and so on. 
The capital of China is called Beijing, neither Mao Zedong nor Washington. 
Do you still want to say that China is an authoritarian country? 
Touch your conscience and ask yourself who is the country that really serves the people?

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## ZeGerman

ckf said:


> The issue should never be about "Democracy", "Socialism" or " Communism", all of these ideology arise due to inequality at the time. Unfortunately human emotions/greed/sins stand in the way of any political entity/system. Power corrupts absolutely. So this debate is quite pointless and only flamed by political propaganda. My view is that it's better to have competing ideology to check the power of all governments. The argument should be about Unipolar vs Multipolar + Regionalism vs Globalization. Ukraine Russia war clearly points to an inflection point where the power of US led unipolar coalition are being tested. Russia clearly wants to establish a new multipolar world order to challenge the Americans/EU.


Though no system is perfect, some might have more checks and balances to abuse of power. Putin removed all his checks and balances…Xi is doing similar. 





And To me it seems more clear russia is acting like a colonialist empire again and mistreating one of the eastern european nations (again, like many many times before).

Due to this war, two power blocks are weakened. Russia itself, and the EU. 
How is this “striving for a multipolar world?”. 
Nato hasnt seen this massive increase in military power since ages thanks to Putins misadventure. (Sweden and finland joined, others likely to follow. Defence spending doubled all over europe)


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## gambit

MH.Yang said:


> China has never had two Bush presidents, two Adams presidents, two Harrison presidents and so on.
> *The capital of China is called Beijing, neither Mao Zedong nor Washington.*
> Do you still want to say that China is an authoritarian country?
> Touch your conscience and ask yourself who is the country that really serves the people?


That is such a stupid defense...









Big Cities That Are Named After People


There are many causes for the meanings behind city names. At first, it may be given a temporary title, that is vaguely associated with the regional makeup.




www.worldatlas.com

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## MH.Yang

ZeGerman said:


> Let me fix it for you:
> “The ethnic russian fifth column that stayed while the invaders ethnically cleansed the area welcome the russians”
> 
> Even conservative sources point out that majority of civilian deaths are caused by russia, and before that the russian seperatists.
> 
> No wonder considering the russian MO of fighting in afghanistan, chechnia, syria….
> 
> 
> You do realise that most european countries score much better on social mobility, chances, distribution of wealth then your “paradise russia”. Where putin usurped power and wealth, and there are a multitude of oligachs with their million dollar yaughts?
> 
> Communist theory most often has been historically abused by those in power, to absolutely trample over the lifes and rights of its “people”. In many ways europe is far more truly socialist then russia or china.
> Even after the latest trend of liberalism.


First of all, you are not a country at all. You have no complete sovereignty, and you are unable to protect your own interests. Even when ALSTOM and other companies are kidnapped and blackmailed by other countries, you are unable to protect them. 
You are a colony. A group of sheep that may be slaughtered by the suzerain at any time.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Hack-Hook said:


> did Russia ever wanted to be part of EU ?



Russia wanted to join NATO but NATO rejected the request.


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## MH.Yang

gambit said:


> That is such a stupid defense...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Big Cities That Are Named After People
> 
> 
> There are many causes for the meanings behind city names. At first, it may be given a temporary title, that is vaguely associated with the regional makeup.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldatlas.com


The most obvious feature of autocratic countries is that dictators will hand over power to their descendants or relatives. For example, GeorgeBush&Old Bush, Clinton&HillaryClinton.

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## gambit

MH.Yang said:


> The most obvious feature of autocratic countries is that dictators will hand over power to their descendants or relatives. For example, GeorgeBush&Old Bush, Clinton&HillaryClinton.


Why is Mao's body still on display? Sounds like a personality cult and a sign of an authoritarian government to me.


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## ZeGerman

MH.Yang said:


> You don't understand Mao Zedong, and I'm not interested in explaining the famine of 1958/1961 to you. If you think that the death caused by famine is Mao Zedong's massacre, and the death caused by the great depression in 1929/1933 is not a massacre. It's up to you.


Like the famine was the only thing causing deaths? Even the chinese party admits he made mistakes (70 percent right 30 percent wrong). Having so much power and no checks and balances leads to such.



MH.Yang said:


> You say that China is a dictatorship, but the descendants of Mao Zedong are historians, and the successor of Mao Zedong is Deng Xiaoping.
> The descendants of Deng Xiaoping are the staff of the disabled persons' Federation, and the successor of Deng Xiaoping is Jiang Zemin.
> Jiang Zemin's descendants are engineering professors, and Jiang Zemin's successor is Hu Jintao.
> Hu Jintao's descendant is a tour guide, Hu Jintao's successor is Xi Jingping, and Xi Jingping's daughter is a researcher at the Translation Institute.
> 
> China has never had two Bush presidents, two Adams presidents, two Harrison presidents and so on.
> The capital of China is called Beijing, neither Mao Zedong nor Washington.
> Do you still want to say that China is an authoritarian country?
> Touch your conscience and ask yourself who is the country that really serves the people?


As for china i mentioned “one party” rule.
(Though Xi is inching towards potential dictatorship. ). Civil rights and freedoms are less then in europe.

Depending on the leader, just like there were periods where people were trampled underfoot…there were periods that were more beneficial for the people.
Especially compared to the corrupt joke of a democracy America has become.
China raised hundreds of millions out of poverty, in meantime USA wealth distribution only became more unequal.


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

MH.Yang said:


> The most obvious feature of autocratic countries is that dictators will hand over power to their descendants or relatives. For example, GeorgeBush&Old Bush, Clinton&HillaryClinton.



Your understanding is wrong. In democracies, Oligarchs select the leaders who are later "elected" by the "people".

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## OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ

Still going through the motions...

Ukraine cannot run indefinitely on western largesse... the whole government edifice is being driven from outside Ukraine, salaries and all.

With the ladder of escalation firmly under Russian thumb... the independence that Ukrainians bleed for has already been mortgaged for whatever piece of land they'd be left with while ceding controls of it's people to outside influences in perpetuity. 

This benefits Russia, of course... they have a series of systems in development and this controlled environment allows them to hone in the new skills and make necessary changes... while chewing up the old Soviet inventories. 
The other winner is, The U.S.! 
Higher fuel prices and cornering a new market a win win... while locking Russia in a confined envelope. 

Europe doesn't win though and will be a greater looser should or when it jumps in ... compelled evidently by it's own growing investment in this conflict keeping it going.

Winter is coming...

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## kingQamaR

sammuel said:


> For sure democracy is not a country that has been ruled by the same putin/dictator , for the last 22 years , and recently have abolished free press in his country all together.
> 
> Russian Journalist Accused Of Discrediting Army Sent To Psychiatric Hospital​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian journalist Maria Ponomarenko, who was detained in St. Petersburg in April on accusations of discrediting the Russian armed forces in social-media posts about the war in Ukraine, has been transferred to a Siberian psychiatric hospital, her lawyer reported on July 2.
> 
> Lawyer Sergei Podolsky said Ponomarenko will be evaluated at the Altai Clinical Psychological Hospital for 28 days.
> 
> Ponomarenko, who lives and works in the Altai region city of Barnaul and is the mother of two young children, was transferred from St. Petersburg to Barnaul late last month.
> 
> “Today I went there and handed over a parcel for her,” Novosibirsk activist Yana Drobhokhod told RFE/RL. “She is not allowed to receive letters or visits from relatives. She is allowed to meet with her lawyers.”
> 
> Ponomarenko faces up to 10 years in prison for a Telegram post about the Russian bombing of a theater in the Ukrainian city of Mariupol in which hundreds of civilians were killed. A Russian law passed in March criminalizes the dissemination of "fake" reports that "discredit the armed forces."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Journalist Accused Of Discrediting Army Sent To Psychiatric Hospital
> 
> 
> Russian journalist Maria Ponomarenko, who was detained in St. Petersburg in April on accusations of discrediting the Russian armed forces in social-media posts about the war in Ukraine, has been transferred to a Siberian psychiatric hospital, her lawyer reported on July 2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rferl.org



It has always been the Russian way. Throughout Lenin and Stalins rule the ideology was centred around the idea that anyone who disagreed with the party line must, by definition, be insane

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

ZeGerman said:


> Like the famine was the only thing causing deaths? Even the chinese party admits he made mistakes (70 percent right 30 percent wrong). Having so much power and no checks and balances leads to such.
> 
> 
> As for china i mentioned “one party” rule.
> (Though Xi is inching towards potential dictatorship. ). *Civil rights and freedoms are less then in europe.*
> 
> Depending on the leader, just like there were periods where people were trampled underfoot…there were periods that were more beneficial for the people.
> Especially compared to the corrupt joke of a democracy America has become.
> China raised hundreds of millions out of poverty, in meantime USA wealth distribution only became more unequal.



Like forcing people to take vaccines?


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## MH.Yang

gambit said:


> Why is Mao's body still on display? Sounds like a personality cult and a sign of an authoritarian government to me.


Deng Xiaoping and Hua Guofeng have to be asked about Mao Zedong's remains. 

Mao Zedong's will documents were broadcast to all China after his death. He asked that his body be cremated and then the ashes be scattered into the Yangtze River. 

But Deng Xiaoping must leave Mao's body behind. 

The relationship between Mao Zedong and Deng Xiaoping is very poor. Mao Zedong is the CCP left and Deng Xiaoping is the CCP right leader. Mao Zedong suppressed Deng Xiaoping until the last few years of his life. He not only reconciled with Nixon and joined the US camp, but also reactivated Deng Xiaoping and sent Deng Xiaoping and Ye Jianying to the Political Bureau. 

Deng Xiaoping's life was suppressed by Mao Zedong and restarted by him. We also don't know whether he left Mao Zedong's body with good intentions or malice. 

Anyway, because of the special reputation of Mao Zedong and Deng Xiaoping, no one behind the CCP leaders dared to move the body.


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

sammuel said:


> For sure democracy is not a country that has been ruled by the same putin/dictator , for the last 22 years , and recently have abolished free press in his country all together.
> 
> Russian Journalist Accused Of Discrediting Army Sent To Psychiatric Hospital​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian journalist Maria Ponomarenko, who was detained in St. Petersburg in April on accusations of discrediting the Russian armed forces in social-media posts about the war in Ukraine, has been transferred to a Siberian psychiatric hospital, her lawyer reported on July 2.
> 
> Lawyer Sergei Podolsky said Ponomarenko will be evaluated at the Altai Clinical Psychological Hospital for 28 days.
> 
> Ponomarenko, who lives and works in the Altai region city of Barnaul and is the mother of two young children, was transferred from St. Petersburg to Barnaul late last month.
> 
> “Today I went there and handed over a parcel for her,” Novosibirsk activist Yana Drobhokhod told RFE/RL. “She is not allowed to receive letters or visits from relatives. She is allowed to meet with her lawyers.”
> 
> Ponomarenko faces up to 10 years in prison for a Telegram post about the Russian bombing of a theater in the Ukrainian city of Mariupol in which hundreds of civilians were killed. A Russian law passed in March criminalizes the dissemination of "fake" reports that "discredit the armed forces."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Journalist Accused Of Discrediting Army Sent To Psychiatric Hospital
> 
> 
> Russian journalist Maria Ponomarenko, who was detained in St. Petersburg in April on accusations of discrediting the Russian armed forces in social-media posts about the war in Ukraine, has been transferred to a Siberian psychiatric hospital, her lawyer reported on July 2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rferl.org












The media’s Julian Assange problem


Under the First Amendment, the U.S. government cannot legally prevent legitimate journalists from publishing our government’s most closely held secrets. But who is a legitimate journalist?




m.washingtontimes.com





The media's Julian Assange problem​Taking national security seriously


By Jed Babbin -
Monday, July 4, 2022
*OPINION:*
Under the First Amendment, the U.S. government cannot legally prevent legitimate journalists from publishing our government’s most closely held secrets. But who is a legitimate journalist? Does the media have any responsibility to protect those secrets?
In 2010, Wikileaks’ Julian Assange, himself a skilled computer hacker, allegedly helped a low-ranking U.S. soldier create a false password to gain access to a classified government internet system. The password enabled the soldier to steal about three-quarters of a million documents, many or most of which were classified at the “secret” level or higher. Mr. Assange then published the documents either online through Wikileaks or in The Guardian, a U.K. newspaper.

The stolen and published documents, many or most of which were classified, included assessments of Guantanamo Bay terrorist inmates and activity reports on the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and State Department “cables,” some of which contained names of sources of intelligence.
A court-martial convicted the soldier, then known as Pvt. Bradley Manning, of espionage and sentenced him to 35 years in prison. (The transgender Chelsea Manning has since had “her” sentence commuted by President Barack Obama.)
Mr. Assange has spent over a decade avoiding extradition to the United States. He was indicted by a federal grand jury in 2018, and a superseding indictment, charging him with espionage, was filed in 2020. On June 17, U.K. Home Minister Priti Patel approved Mr. Assange’s extradition to the U.S., though her order will be appealed to European courts.
Mr. Assange claims he is a journalist and publisher so, his lawyers argue, the First Amendment bars prosecution for his actions. Prosecutors contend he is neither a journalist nor a publisher. In either event, the First Amendment wouldn’t protect him from the charges of assisting Ms. Manning in illegally hacking into the government document system. 
If and when Mr. Assange is finally brought to trial in America, the question of whether he’s a journalist will be resolved but another — and vastly more important question — will not.
That question is whether and to what extent the media has any responsibility to protect our nation’s secrets. 
The Supreme Court has held that the First Amendment bars the government from preventing the publication of information under the “no prior restraint” doctrine. In Near v. Minnesota (1931) the court ruled unconstitutional a state law that prohibited the publication of malicious or defamatory materials. In the Pentagon Papers case, New York Times v. the U.S. (1971) the court held that there can be no prior restraint even on the publication of classified information. 
In some cases when the media chooses to publish classified information, the damage to national security is obvious. In others, it’s very hard to assess. 
In 1998, The Washington Post published a story that said our intelligence community was monitoring Osama bin Laden’s cell phone communications. After the story appeared, bin Laden, to no one’s surprise, quickly stopped using his cell phone. If that story hadn’t been published, it’s possible that we could have prevented the 9/11 attacks.
In 2013, Edward Snowden stole about 1.5 million top-secret documents from the NSA and fled to Moscow. Some have since been published while the rest, like Mr. Snowden, are in Russian hands.
In late 2005, then-President George W. Bush, after The New York Times asked for comment on a soon-to-be-published story, requested a meeting with the publisher of The New York Times and his top editors. He asked them not to publish information on the NSA’s top-secret warrantless wiretapping program used to track terrorists. They refused, and the Times published the story on Jan. 3, 2006. 
The media should have an adversarial relationship with the government, but by failing to accept any responsibility for withholding publication of U.S. state secrets in the interest of national security, the media ignore a duty of citizenship. 
Some, including the Times and the Washington Post, have guidelines for publishing secrets, but they are strongly biased in favor of publication. That bias is understandable but wrong. Although publications have no legal duty to protect our secrets, they have the obligation to balance the public’s right to know against the probable national security damage that could be caused by the publication of those secrets.
When reporters, editors and publishers decide whether to publish secret information they know that the government cannot exercise prior restraint. They may pretend to consider the possible damage to national security but they have no expertise or experience to guide them to intelligent decisions. 
Most of the decision-makers in U.S. media claim to be loyal Americans. If they took that claim seriously, they would — before deciding to publish secret material — consult with people who have that experience and expertise and be guided by them in deciding whether to publish that information. 
That’s too much to hope for. Most of the media is too awash in politics and hostile to any exercise of American power abroad to take their obligation regarding national security seriously. 
The media evidently believe that the government’s inability to impose prior restraint gives them license to publish anything leakers give them regardless of the consequences to national security. They’re too arrogant to understand that with freedom comes responsibility.
_• Jed Babbin is a national security and foreign affairs columnist for The Washington Times and contributing editor for The American Spectator.

Copyright © 2022 The Washington Times, LLC._


----------



## MH.Yang

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Your understanding is wrong. In democracies, Oligarchs select the leaders who are later "elected" by the "people".


As long as you have money and you control the media. Isn't the rest simple?

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

MH.Yang said:


> As long as you have money and you control the media. Isn't the rest simple?



Normal people do not have money and power to control media. Only oligarchs have the money and power to select the leaders.

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## MH.Yang

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Normal people do not have money and power to control media. Only oligarchs have the money and power to select the leaders.


The smarter way is for the plutocrats to control their chosen politicians through money and the media to carry out their orders.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

MH.Yang said:


> The smarter way is for the plutocrats to control their chosen politicians through money and the media to carry out their orders.



No. The idea here is to make the sheeple beleive that they are indeed electing their leaders.

You have to go slow on these people.

In the west people get into Ivy colleges if they have money not because they have done well academically. They do not understand the concept of merit. People with merit or money become oligarchs while people with no merit or money end up in the military as John Kerry said.

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## MH.Yang

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> No. The idea here is to make the sheeple beleive that they are indeed electing their leaders.
> 
> You have to go slow on these people.
> 
> In the west people get into Ivy colleges if they have money not because they have done well acedemically. They do not understand the concept of merit. People with merit or money become oligarchs while people with no merit or money end up in the military as John Kerry said.
> 
> View attachment 859308



But Chinese people are not so easy.

For example, Hu Jintao, who was originally just a dam administrator, became the Secretary of the Tibetan Party committee with excellent work achievements.

Then because of his decisiveness and wisdom in dealing with the rebellion, he was selected by Deng Xiaoping and became the successor of Jiang Zemin.

The most interesting thing is that Deng Xiaoping and Jiang Zemin are both CCP Rightists, but Hu Jintao is a CCP leftist, and they still choose Hu Jintao.

I don't know how many countries allow a dam worker without any background to become a national leader. Will such a country be a dictatorship?

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

MH.Yang said:


> But Chinese people are not so easy.
> 
> For example, Hu Jintao, who was originally just a dam administrator, became the Secretary of the Tibetan Party committee with excellent work achievements.
> 
> Then because of his decisiveness and wisdom in dealing with the rebellion, he was selected by Deng Xiaoping and became the successor of Jiang Zemin.
> 
> The most interesting thing is that Deng Xiaoping and Jiang Zemin are both CCP Rightists, but Hu Jintao they chose is CCP leftist.
> 
> I don't know how many countries allow a dam worker without any background to become a national leader. Will such a country be a dictatorship?
> 
> View attachment 859309



And Western democracies do not have an equivalent of Chinese Gaokao exam. You write an unrelated essay on how to make a choclate cake and get accepted into an Ivy college. What a joke of a system.

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## ckf

MH.Yang said:


> But Chinese people are not so easy.
> 
> For example, Hu Jintao, who was originally just a dam administrator, became the Secretary of the Tibetan Party committee with excellent work achievements.
> 
> Then because of his decisiveness and wisdom in dealing with the rebellion, he was selected by Deng Xiaoping and became the successor of Jiang Zemin.
> 
> The most interesting thing is that Deng Xiaoping and Jiang Zemin are both CCP Rightists, but Hu Jintao is a CCP leftist, and they still choose Hu Jintao.
> 
> I don't know how many countries allow a dam worker without any background to become a national leader. Will such a country be a dictatorship?
> 
> View attachment 859309
> View attachment 859310


MH, I respect your position but this is way off topic and its better to stop feeding the trolls. These trolls will pretend to inquisit, in reality only to divert the real issues in Ukraine.

These trolls are talking Democracy and crap to distract us from the real issues of incompetence by Biden admin,uk and EU+ western intelligence. Look at the debacle in Afghanistan withdraw, backfiring of Russian sanctions, runaway inflation/economic depression and potential complete collapse of Ukrainian defense. They are just in denial.

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## A.P. Richelieu

MH.Yang said:


> @sammuel means that USA has the veto power of the EU, because USA has the right to review the qualifications of democratic countries.


What a load of rubbish.



MH.Yang said:


> Come on.
> 
> In fact, we all know that the reason why Putin has received high support for a long time is that Russians lack a sense of security, so they pursue a strong president. This insecurity comes from NATO.
> 
> In other words, the USA forced the Russians to choose Putin.
> 
> Scolding the president is nothing. Unlike what you think, Chinese people can also scold Xi JingPinf.
> But dare you scold the president's backstage? Dare you scold the Jewish plutocrats and Israel? I remember 10 years ago, an official of the British Foreign Office was sentenced to seven years in prison for scolding Israel.
> 
> And the woman you said was arrested for rumors. If a reporter in your country rumors that you are using living people for secret human experiments, will she be arrested?
> 
> As far as I know, the Australian government has also arrested journalists who reported that Australian special forces killed innocent Afghans. This is not a reporter who made up rumors, but he was still arrested by the so-called democratic govt.


The Russians did not ”elect” Putin. He was selected after guaranteeing that Yeltsin would not be prosecuted.


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## A.P. Richelieu

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Russia wanted to join NATO but NATO rejected the request.


Russia wanted to become a member without going through the process.


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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

A.P. Richelieu said:


> Russia wanted to become a member without going through the process.



LOL

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## sammuel

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> The media’s Julian Assange problem
> 
> 
> Under the First Amendment, the U.S. government cannot legally prevent legitimate journalists from publishing our government’s most closely held secrets. But who is a legitimate journalist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.washingtontimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The media's Julian Assange problem​Taking national security seriously
> 
> 
> By Jed Babbin -
> Monday, July 4, 2022
> *OPINION:*
> Under the First Amendment, the U.S. government cannot legally prevent legitimate journalists from publishing our government’s most closely held secrets. But who is a legitimate journalist? Does the media have any responsibility to protect those secrets?
> In 2010, Wikileaks’ Julian Assange, himself a skilled computer hacker, allegedly helped a low-ranking U.S. soldier create a false password to gain access to a classified government internet system. The password enabled the soldier to steal about three-quarters of a million documents, many or most of which were classified at the “secret” level or higher. Mr. Assange then published the documents either online through Wikileaks or in The Guardian, a U.K. newspaper.
> 
> The stolen and published documents, many or most of which were classified, included assessments of Guantanamo Bay terrorist inmates and activity reports on the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and State Department “cables,” some of which contained names of sources of intelligence.
> A court-martial convicted the soldier, then known as Pvt. Bradley Manning, of espionage and sentenced him to 35 years in prison. (The transgender Chelsea Manning has since had “her” sentence commuted by President Barack Obama.)
> Mr. Assange has spent over a decade avoiding extradition to the United States. He was indicted by a federal grand jury in 2018, and a superseding indictment, charging him with espionage, was filed in 2020. On June 17, U.K. Home Minister Priti Patel approved Mr. Assange’s extradition to the U.S., though her order will be appealed to European courts.
> Mr. Assange claims he is a journalist and publisher so, his lawyers argue, the First Amendment bars prosecution for his actions. Prosecutors contend he is neither a journalist nor a publisher. In either event, the First Amendment wouldn’t protect him from the charges of assisting Ms. Manning in illegally hacking into the government document system.
> If and when Mr. Assange is finally brought to trial in America, the question of whether he’s a journalist will be resolved but another — and vastly more important question — will not.
> That question is whether and to what extent the media has any responsibility to protect our nation’s secrets.
> The Supreme Court has held that the First Amendment bars the government from preventing the publication of information under the “no prior restraint” doctrine. In Near v. Minnesota (1931) the court ruled unconstitutional a state law that prohibited the publication of malicious or defamatory materials. In the Pentagon Papers case, New York Times v. the U.S. (1971) the court held that there can be no prior restraint even on the publication of classified information.
> In some cases when the media chooses to publish classified information, the damage to national security is obvious. In others, it’s very hard to assess.
> In 1998, The Washington Post published a story that said our intelligence community was monitoring Osama bin Laden’s cell phone communications. After the story appeared, bin Laden, to no one’s surprise, quickly stopped using his cell phone. If that story hadn’t been published, it’s possible that we could have prevented the 9/11 attacks.
> In 2013, Edward Snowden stole about 1.5 million top-secret documents from the NSA and fled to Moscow. Some have since been published while the rest, like Mr. Snowden, are in Russian hands.
> In late 2005, then-President George W. Bush, after The New York Times asked for comment on a soon-to-be-published story, requested a meeting with the publisher of The New York Times and his top editors. He asked them not to publish information on the NSA’s top-secret warrantless wiretapping program used to track terrorists. They refused, and the Times published the story on Jan. 3, 2006.
> The media should have an adversarial relationship with the government, but by failing to accept any responsibility for withholding publication of U.S. state secrets in the interest of national security, the media ignore a duty of citizenship.
> Some, including the Times and the Washington Post, have guidelines for publishing secrets, but they are strongly biased in favor of publication. That bias is understandable but wrong. Although publications have no legal duty to protect our secrets, they have the obligation to balance the public’s right to know against the probable national security damage that could be caused by the publication of those secrets.
> When reporters, editors and publishers decide whether to publish secret information they know that the government cannot exercise prior restraint. They may pretend to consider the possible damage to national security but they have no expertise or experience to guide them to intelligent decisions.
> Most of the decision-makers in U.S. media claim to be loyal Americans. If they took that claim seriously, they would — before deciding to publish secret material — consult with people who have that experience and expertise and be guided by them in deciding whether to publish that information.
> That’s too much to hope for. Most of the media is too awash in politics and hostile to any exercise of American power abroad to take their obligation regarding national security seriously.
> The media evidently believe that the government’s inability to impose prior restraint gives them license to publish anything leakers give them regardless of the consequences to national security. They’re too arrogant to understand that with freedom comes responsibility.
> _• Jed Babbin is a national security and foreign affairs columnist for The Washington Times and contributing editor for The American Spectator.
> 
> Copyright © 2022 The Washington Times, LLC._



Spot the differences :


Anti war ( Vietnam ) demonstration USA :







Anti war ( Ukraine ) demonstration Russia







~


----------



## Primus

Thread is getting a bit out of hand 

@waz @LeGenD @Foxtrot Alpha

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## Maira La

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> And Western democracies do not have an equivalent of Chinese Gaokao exam. You write an unrelated essay on how to make a choclate cake and get accepted into an Ivy college. What a joke of a system.



They do. It's called SAT. I suppose you have never tried your hands on it.


----------



## aziqbal

Americans are making fun of Russian progress really ?

it took US over 9 months to take Fallujah with depleted uranium and 1 million dead Iraqis against poor unarmed Iraqis who had no one supporting them

Russia just took area size of France in 133 days against 30 x NATO nations + US and rest of so called "civilised countries" without full mobilisation

Russian steamroller is slowly and steadily advancing and crushing everything in its path

learn from history, no one has succeeded to defeat Russian in open terrain not even the Imperial Japanese in Mongolia who wiped out the British Empire in South East Asia

Russia has a huge heart and is trained to take punishment

there is not such thing as low moral or being exhausted

Russia will stop when it wants to stop

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## Akritas

MH.Yang said:


> What is the exact definition of "democratic election"?



Is a process in which people are free to vote and choose a person or group of people to hold an official position, in order to serve the interests of the people.



MH.Yang said:


> Wall street takes out two rotten apples and gives you the freedom to choose one from two. Is this a democratic election?


No, it's not, it's a sham democratic election, but it's still an election. Pretentious, because while there is the freedom to participate and ripe apples, they cannot succeed in the election due to obstacles.
Just like an election is held in Communist China, but it is not democratic, because there the people do not vote, but only the members of a party.



Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> What is your definition of people?


People are the members of a particular nation, ethnic group or ommunity,

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## aziqbal

Akritas said:


> Is a process in which people are free to vote and choose a person or group of people to hold an official position, in order to serve the interests of the people.
> 
> 
> No, it's not, it's a sham democratic election, but it's still an election. Pretentious, because while there is the freedom to participate and ripe apples, they cannot succeed in the election due to obstacles.
> Just like an election is held in Communist China, but it is not democratic, because there the people do not vote, but only the members of a party.
> 
> 
> People are the members of a particular nation, ethnic group or ommunity,



Palestinians voted to have Hamas as their leaders it was democratically elected and yet US and its allies refused to acknowledge it 

even going as far as saying its a terrorist organisation

US gives weapons to Israel to bomb poor Palestinians and they have bought the Arab leaders so they dont speak out 

When Russia invaded Ukraine the Americans said it is not allowed to take someones land by force, really?

Israel has put illegal settlements in Palestine by force are you blind ?

Russia is exposing Western hypocrisy 

every single European nation no matter how small like Portugal enslaved, steal and invade poor African nations in the past 

Russian are the only "whites" who did not do any such thing they never enslaved and robbed people of there identity 

this tradition belongs to US and its cronies who's history is built over the dead bodies of the poor and innocents 

Now Russia is marching West and everyone is spooked

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544412621671223301

UK announces 10 additional M109 howitzers and loitering munitions

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## Akritas

aziqbal said:


> Palestinians voted to have Hamas as their leaders it was democratically elected and yet US and its allies refused to acknowledge it
> 
> even going as far as saying its a terrorist organisation


Look, the fact that someone elects someone, even if the electoral process was reliable, also means the value of their vote. So when you elect as a government, a proven terrorist organization for 50% of the countries on earth, then you must know that you will have consequences.


----------



## sammuel

aziqbal said:


> Palestinians voted to have Hamas as their leaders it was democratically elected and yet US and its allies refused to acknowledge it



Hamas was elected 15 years ago ! ! ! . You can't argue you are democratically elected , if you throw your opposition members from roof tops as Hamas did in Gaza , and do not allow a free election after you are elected.

Half the Palestinian people do not recognize Hamas , it sure is hard to sign an agreement only with half the Palestinian people.

Abbas was the elected president , but his position too was not put for elections for over 15 years.

This is something only the Palestinian can sort out for themselves. They messed up their democratic process and only they can fix it.

The only time Palestinians spoke in one voice was during Arafat time , but he missed the opportunity to make an historic change in the region , by ending this conflict.



~


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## aziqbal

sammuel said:


> Hamas was elected 15 years ago ! ! ! . You can't argue you are democratically elected , if you throw your opposition members from roof tops as Hamas did in Gaza , and do not allow a free election after you are elected.
> 
> Half the Palestinian people do not recognize Hamas , it sure is hard to sign an agreement only with half the Palestinian people.
> 
> Abbas was the elected president , but his position too was not put for elections for over 15 years.
> 
> This is something only the Palestinian can sort out for themselves. They messed up their democratic process and only they can fix it.
> 
> The only time Palestinians spoke in one voice was during Arafat time , but he missed the opportunity to make an historic change in the region but ending this conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> ~



that's rich coming from a invader stay in Europe or US currently Palestine has enough invaders 

even after 75 years Zionist cant walk down Jerusalem without looking over their shoulder to get stabbed or gunned down 

this is how Zionist victory looks 

it was Palestine, it is Palestine and will always be Palestine 

dont steal dont get killed simple logic, too much for a Zionist to understand though

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## sammuel

aziqbal said:


> that's rich coming from a invader stay in Europe or US



Yes , and you wonder why we cant talk to Hamas , and yet complain why it is not recognized.

You seem to hold the same positions as Hamas.

Hamas is advocating the destruction of my country , than they cant complain when they get a bloody nose in return.

~


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## aziqbal

sammuel said:


> Yes , and you wonder why we cant talk to Hamas , and yet complain why it is not recognized.
> 
> You seem to hold the same positions as Hamas.
> 
> Hamas is advocating the destruction of my country , than they cant complain when they get a bloody nose in return.
> 
> ~



yes we dont want a country called Israel whats wrong with that ?

if someone broke into my house and steal my property I will also chop their heads off

defending your house is not terrorism we are done with these labels call it what you want

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## sammuel

aziqbal said:


> yes we dont want a country called Israel whats wrong with that ?



Since millions Israelis seems to disagree with you and since they will fight to protect their homes , what you are suggesting is continuation of this conflict , that has been going on for over a 100 years , and should have been solved long ago.

You are suggesting is war , and you wonder " whats wrong with that ? "

I wonder if you are personally going to participate in this war , or is it just something " nice " , you suggest to others ?


~

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## aziqbal

sammuel said:


> Since millions Israelis seems to disagree with you and since they will fight to protect their homes , what you are suggesting is continuation of this conflict , that has been going on for over a 100 years , and should have been solved long ago.
> 
> You are suggesting is war , and you wonder " whats wrong with that ? "
> 
> I wonder if you are personally going to participate in this war , or is it just something nice , you suggest to others ?
> 
> 
> ~



and it will go on for 1,000 years because Muslims will never up, we are not like Black Africans who Europe enslaved forced them into Christianity and told to pray for the people who oppress them

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## 925boy

aziqbal said:


> and it will go on for 1,000 years because Muslims will never up, we are not like Black Africans who Europe enslaved forced them into Christianity and told to pray for the people who oppress them


cant u make your point without being racist?


----------



## Valar.

aziqbal said:


> and it will go on for 1,000 years because Muslims will never up, we are not like Black Africans who Europe enslaved forced them into Christianity and told to pray for the people who oppress them

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## PakFactor

925boy said:


> cant u make your point without being racist?



He was not being racist. He maid a point and it’s a very valid one.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

PakFactor said:


> He was not being racist. He maid a point and it’s a very valid one.




How is it a valid one? Do you know the history of Africans and how much they resisted European colonization? Do you know there are black African nations who have never being colonized? His statement was dumb.

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## Iron Shrappenel




----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544232467393036290

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## Hack-Hook

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Russia wanted to join NATO but NATO rejected the request.


NATO not EU, Norway is also part of NATO but not EU.
and membership in nato don't need democracy


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

Scott Ritter: "Two-Front War: Biden's Mouth is Writing Checks the US Military Can't Cash"​

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## 925boy

PakFactor said:


> He was not being racist. He maid a point and it’s a very valid one.


2nd racist identified, thanks.

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## Hack-Hook

MH.Yang said:


> I don't know how many countries allow a dam worker without any background to become a national leader. Will such a country be a dictatorship?


well i knew a country that allow a comedian become the leader , now that I think in fact I knew two country 🇺🇦 & 🇺🇸

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544454272930271232

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544265059626586114

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544209173235343361

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544450646270742529

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544440240542306305

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## zectech

Uh Oh, Russia is Mad at Trump: Russian TV Host Says They May Not ‘Install Trump as President’ Again​








Uh Oh, Russia is Mad at Trump: Russian TV Host Says They May Not 'Install Trump as President' Again


They are not shy about it. Russian hoax? Someone might want to tell the Russians it was a hoax. Apparently, Trump recently promised – during a rally – to destroy the Russian Federation and end Putin’s hegemony. Now, this is beyond odd and truly defies belief. Of course, Trump says a lot of...




www.politicalflare.com





Russian media and Kremlin are fully aware that Trump is a Putin puppet and vice versa. And Trump backers are the British crown and cia. Showing who Putin installed as "President" of the US in Trump. So, to China and Iran supporters of Putin, here is your god-king Putin, according to Putin cronies in Russian media and elsewhere know that Putin put Trump into the White House via psy-ops on the alt politics RT News watchers. Via getting conservatives to vote for Trump. Via splitting the Democratic vote to vote for Jill Stein. Jill Stein who was a guest on RT News to stop Hillary.

Guess Who Came to Dinner With Flynn and Putin (Jill Stein did)​NBC News reviewed video and photos from a 2015 Moscow gala that Mike Flynn was paid $45,000 to attend to see who else was in the room.









Guess who came to dinner with Flynn and Putin


NBC News reviewed video and photos from a 2015 Moscow gala that Mike Flynn was paid $45,000 to attend to see who else was in the room.




www.nbcnews.com





Boris Yeltsin had entourage of ‘hundreds’ of CIA agents who instructed him how to run Russia, claims former parliamentary speaker​


https://www.rt.com/russia/526345-yeltsin-cia-connection-claim/



Yeltsin was picked by those in the Kremlin because Putin guaranteed to not put Yeltsin in jail for selling out Russia to the Bush cia and cronies (Russian Oligarchs), who had hundreds of cia agents in the Kremlin. The Bush cia had been allied to the Chabad since the 50s, the Russia mafia for decades and Russian oligarchs since the fall of the Soviet Union.

The Bush cia withdrew obvious control over Kremlin after Yeltsin. And had these three Bush cia partners - Chabad, Russian Mafia, and Russian Oligarchs be the new advisors to Putin and the Russian state. The Russian Mafia is nearly as influential as FSB.

The Result of 20 Years of Putin: Russia as a Mafia State​








The Result of 20 Years of Putin: Russia as a Mafia State


Over the last week, Russia has gone through a political upheaval initiated by Vladimir Putin: proposal for constitutional reform, resignation of the government, appointment of a new cabinet. The pace and scale of these events led some commentators to call them a “constitutional coup.” However...




imrussia.org





The Russian Mafia has the Reagan and Bush cia to thank for take over.






Russian Mafia's Worldwide Grip


Operates In At Least 50 Countries



web.archive.org





So where you are meant to think that Yeltsin and cia left Russia and Putin cleaned Russia from the cia, is only a facade. The cia runs Putin via Chabad and other cia allies. And they are trying to cover that up big time.

Trump has connections with these same three groups: Chabad, Russian Mafia, Russian Oligarchs

The Happy-Go-Lucky Jewish Group That Connects Trump and Putin​








The Happy-Go-Lucky Jewish Group That Connects Trump and Putin


Where Trump's real estate world meets a top religious ally of the Kremlin.




www.politico.com





The Chabad, who support Netanyahu run the Russian economy, according to the Chabad.





__





Putin and Jews






www.bitchute.com





Trump and the Russian mob - Felix Sater






Trump and Russian oligarchs

These Russian Oligarchs Are Making Donald Trump Rich​








These Russian Oligarchs Are Making Donald Trump Rich


There are around $100 million of Russian money in southern Florida alone.




www.newsweek.com





This is why Russia considers Trump to be a Russian asset. The cia regards Trump as a cia asset. The British "crown" regards Trump as an MI6 asset.

Trump was to re-build the Entente and destroy the rise of China and destroy the EU competitor. Trump "Dynasty" in Washington, British "Crown" in the UK, Le Pen in France. And Putin in Russia.

This was stopped in 2020 elections. So the usual suspects are trying to destroy the global economy to usher in cia bitcoins as the "total control" system. Putins war in Europe is the means to destroy economies. To make China, Europe and the rest of the globe desperate to the USA to rule over them. So as Putinites are cheering for the death of whitey, you are being fooled to support Trump goals, cia goals, pompeo goals.

Trump in getting angry is saying the Trump brand of the cia is most important to the agenda.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544413743265759233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544410724952379392


F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544454272930271232





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544406036660076547
Enough with your "muh Himars". Russians are seizing one town after another while your stories have been changing from Eagle and Phoenix drones to "muh Himars".......lol

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## Hassan Al-Somal

How is this winning for the Ukrainians? ShMH!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544430107724496896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544348852454653953

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544338897630797829

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544304890268340224

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## ckf

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544304890268340224


Biden's stupidity is allowing destruction of G7 economies
Yen and Euro collapse happening as we speak



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544491139474096131

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543867282211971072

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## vi-va

gambit said:


> Why is Mao's body still on display? Sounds like a personality cult and a sign of an authoritarian government to me.


Why Jesus body still on display? Sounds like idolatry.

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## shi12jun



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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544495879884886017

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544495883676532742

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544495921228046344

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544495924990320640

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544495928257773572

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544495932758282241

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## Lehrasap

aziqbal said:


> Palestinians voted to have Hamas as their leaders it was democratically elected and yet US and its allies refused to acknowledge it
> 
> even going as far as saying its a terrorist organisation
> 
> US gives weapons to Israel to bomb poor Palestinians and they have bought the Arab leaders so they dont speak out
> 
> When Russia invaded Ukraine the Americans said it is not allowed to take someones land by force, really?
> 
> Israel has put illegal settlements in Palestine by force are you blind ?
> 
> Russia is exposing Western hypocrisy
> 
> every single European nation no matter how small like Portugal enslaved, steal and invade poor African nations in the past
> 
> Russian are the only "whites" who did not do any such thing they never enslaved and robbed people of there identity
> 
> this tradition belongs to US and its cronies who's history is built over the dead bodies of the poor and innocents
> 
> Now Russia is marching West and everyone is spooked



If the western world has to follow the Russian strategy, then declaring Hamas as terrorist is not enough, but they have to occupy whole Palestine and declare it to be Israel, and nothing of Palestine should be left. 
Unfortunately, you will show here double standards. 

And the western world of today is not responsible for what their ancestors did in the past to other countries. 
But if you still insist on putting the blame of past upon the present western world, then Muslim Caliphates did much worse to other nations which they captured, as to what the Western world did when they captured other nations. 

British Empire abolished slavery from all its colonies in 18th century, otherwise all Muslim men would have taken as slaves and women too (and perhaps raped). Muslim caliphates and states used to take the prisoner women as slaves and it is documented they used them in sex slavery.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544495936071680007

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544495940102496258

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544495948692430849

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544495952450428932

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544495961451515904

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544495973723930626

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Akritas said:


> Is a process in which people are free to vote and choose a person or group of people to hold an official position, in order to serve the interests of the people.
> 
> 
> No, it's not, it's a sham democratic election, but it's still an election. Pretentious, because while there is the freedom to participate and ripe apples, they cannot succeed in the election due to obstacles.
> Just like an election is held in Communist China, but it is not democratic, because there the people do not vote, but only the members of a party.
> 
> 
> People are the members of a particular nation, ethnic group or ommunity,



Why were women not allowed to voted in the US until 1920?

Why are undocumented people allowed to vote today?



Maira La said:


> They do. It's called SAT. I suppose you have never tried your hands on it.



Seriously?


----------



## Oldman1

jhungary said:


> They need something that can turn the tides. Not just MLRS.





jhungary said:


> MLRS has been doing the Ukrainian good (It is probably the sole reason why Russia "withdraw" from Snake Island.
> 
> Problem is, we need to give them more, and as I said, the US should have give the Ukrainian all the Marine M270 (They have around 70 MLRS in storage after switching to HIMARS) Most analyst said they only need 60 to turn the tide of battle.
> 
> If I am the Ukrainian, I will probably try to retake Kherson first, they are now within Artillery range, the Ukrainian are probably thinking about what they should do, if this is the US, we will take the airport first, and then use the airport 5 mile North of the city to use as a supply base and go down to Kherson with heavy artillery and MLRS cover.
> 
> Not sure if this is true, but local channel (Telegram and Instagram) tell the TDF and Ukrainian force to get ready for Assault in the next 2 weeks.


Right now I believe the MLRS can help that. MLRS can help target their ammo depots that provides artillery shells for their artillery, besides C&C and SAMs and other high value targets. Also I believe they can use them if in large numbers of M270s and HIMARS as you mentioned to target the Russian artillery especially since they are the only things helping the Russians advance by destroying everything and moving on. Without them, their advances will not move since they fear of getting their tanks and vehicles destroyed by mines or anti tank missiles or Ukrainian artillery. So if the Ukrainians can destroy or even deter the Russians from getting close to provide artillery support, it would help tremendously. Course can't stop long range rockets like Smerch and Uragans (unless hit by HIMARS or MLRS), but they are fewer in numbers and more expensive compared to firing tens of thousands of shells a day. Later on with more MLRS like those 70 or so in storage you mentioned, it could help with the counteroffensive in all fronts.



Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Why were women not allowed to voted in the US until 1920?

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## Soldier35

The Russian military used the latest Izdeliye-305E missile in Ukraine. On the published footage, you can see how the rocket flies up to the window of the building. The Russian Izdelie-305E air-to-surface missile is designed to equip modernized versions of Russian Ka-52M and Mi-28NM helicopters and some aircraft. The 305E missile can be used at a range of up to 14.5 kilometers, so it surpasses the American AGM-114 "Hellfire" missile, which has a range of no more than 10 km. The missile has a high-precision inertial on-board navigation system and is equipped with a homing head, it implements the "fire and forget" principle. Rocket weight 105 kg, length 1945 mm, body diameter 200mm.

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## Oldman1

ckf said:


> We already seen the sanctions on Russia backfire miserably, does US really want a Nuclear power like Russia as a staunch enemy at its borders? Alaska share long/close range with Russians and Canada is literally nextdoor neighbor to Russia artic. Ukraine war is a proxy war, the more advance weapon Ukraine receives from US, US draw itself closer and closer into direct confrontation with Russia. Russia still has not committed its full airforce, so all the Himars, and western artillery donations will be sitting ducks for SU 25. More importantly, the global south will see this as direct US intervention and even EU might be reluctant partners as time goes on. A wider conflict with Russia is not in the interest of Germany and France.


LOL! Russia was our enemy during the Cold War and Alaska has been close to Russia long time ago since they sold it. Also by the way, Putin has been brainwashing his people long before the Ukraine-Russian war about retaking Alaska. 









Kremlin slashes spending by £24bn as West's sanctions batter Russia


The Kremlin is poised to cut future spending plans by £24bn as Western sanctions against Russia bite.




www.telegraph.co.uk





Kremlin slashes spending by £24bn as West's sanctions batter Russia​The Kremlin is poised to cut future spending plans by £24bn as Western sanctions against Russia bite.

Defence, technology and transport budgets are all set to be trimmed, according to Russian media.

More than 1.6 trillion roubles, or £24bn, has been slashed from the Russian state budget over the next three years as Moscow braces for a two-year recession. 

Spending will be 557bn roubles (£8.2bn) lower in 2023 than previously approved plans, with similar cuts pencilled in for the following two years.

The budget tweaks are minor compared to the size of Moscow’s overall budget but the figures are one of the first signs of the fiscal blow being dealt by the conflict in Ukraine. The 2023 cuts are equivalent to just over 2pc of the Russian state budget.

While the Kremlin’s coffers are being boosted by rocketing energy prices, spending on its military has soared and non-energy tax receipts are being hit by the shrinking of its economy.

The plans will help balance the budget but will mean lower spending on state programmes funding transport, science and technology development, and defence, despite the conflict in Ukraine.

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## gambit

vi-va said:


> Why Jesus body still on display? Sounds like idolatry.


Where is Jesus's body on display?


----------



## ckf

Oldman1 said:


> Right now I believe the MLRS can help that. MLRS can help target their ammo depots that provides artillery shells for their artillery, besides C&C and SAMs and other high value targets. Also I believe they can use them if in large numbers of M270s and HIMARS as you mentioned to target the Russian artillery especially since they are the only things helping the Russians advance by destroying everything and moving on. Without them, their advances will not move since they fear of getting their tanks and vehicles destroyed by mines or anti tank missiles or Ukrainian artillery. So if the Ukrainians can destroy or even deter the Russians from getting close to provide artillery support, it would help tremendously. Course can't stop long range rockets like Smerch and Uragans (unless hit by HIMARS or MLRS), but they are fewer in numbers and more expensive compared to firing tens of thousands of shells a day. Later on with more MLRS like those 70 or so in storage you mentioned, it could help with the counteroffensive in all fronts.


If you hope MLRS will turn the tide of War in Ukraine, sound very desperate to me. 70 units of HIMARS and 2000 rounds of missles in US inventory will last like a month in Ukraine. Does US even produce these missiles these days? I believe these missiles cost are like half a million in late 2000s, and these days would be like at least 1 or 2 million if they can produce them(Production line stopped?). Can't see how that will make a difference in this war. These would be super expensive supression fire if you ask me. I could be wrong, we will see if Biden admin will give these to the UKes quick enough to make a difference on the battlefield. They need to train crews and sent them in action within next 3 month to stop the Russia advances.

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## mulj

Lehrasap said:


> If the western world has to follow the Russian strategy, then declaring Hamas as terrorist is not enough, but they have to occupy whole Palestine and declare it to be Israel, and nothing of Palestine should be left.
> Unfortunately, you will show here double standards.
> 
> And the western world of today is not responsible for what their ancestors did in the past to other countries.
> But if you still insist on putting the blame of past upon the present western world, then Muslim Caliphates did much worse to other nations which they captured, as to what the Western world did when they captured other nations.
> 
> British Empire abolished slavery from all its colonies in 18th century, otherwise all Muslim men would have taken as slaves and women too (and perhaps raped). Muslim caliphates and states used to take the prisoner women as slaves and it is documented they used them in sex slavery.


Since when western criteria of morality is benchmark?

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## Oldman1

ckf said:


> If you hope MLRS will turn the tide of War in Ukraine, sound very desperate to me.


Not sure how that sounds desperate, no different than saying Russians using MLRS.



ckf said:


> 70 units of HIMARS and 2000 rounds of missles in US inventory will last like a month in Ukraine. Does US even produce these missiles these days? I believe these missiles cost are like half a million in late 2000s, and these days would be like at least 1 or 2 million if they can produce them(Production line stopped?). Can't see how that will make a difference in this war. These would be super expensive supression fire if you ask me. I could be wrong, we will see if Biden admin will give these to the UKes quick enough to make a difference on the battlefield. They need to train crews and sent them in action within next 3 month to stop the Russia advances.


All these questions you asked makes you sound unsure of yourself. The U.S. has tens of thousands of these missiles and are still in production. In fact they plan to introduce a newer longer range missile with about 150km range by next year with 200km in the future. It can make a big difference in war considering they are hitting ammo depots which they couldn't reach in the first place until 2 weeks ago. Destroying artillery shells needed by the Russians to help advance otherwise they won't move if they can't dislodge the Ukrainians out of their positions. It only took few weeks to train the Ukrainians how to use the HIMARS.


----------



## vi-va

gambit said:


> Where is Jesus's body on display?


*idolatry*



https://www.amazon.com/Joseph-Studio-Inspired-Bronze-Crucifix/dp/B0054LB4G4

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## jamahir

ZeGerman said:


> Let me fix it for you:
> “The ethnic russian fifth column that stayed while the invaders ethnically cleansed the area welcome the russians”



How do you know all those welcomers are ethnic Russians ? When the Russians were pushing for Kiev there is a town outside Kiev which had been taken over by the Russians and there too they were welcomed. Surely, many of those civilians are not ethnic Russians.



ZeGerman said:


> Even conservative sources point out that majority of civilian deaths are caused by russia, and before that the russian seperatists.
> 
> No wonder considering the russian MO of fighting in afghanistan, chechnia, syria….



1. You simply have been brainwashed by NATO false propaganda about the civilian deaths caused by Russians and the rebels / separatists.

2. Afghanistan was a case of NATO regime change operation, to install a pro-NATO mullah regime replacing the progressive Communist governance system that was supported by the USSR. And towards this NATO trained, funded, armed and logistically supported tens of thousands of Afghan and foreign regressives, criminals and psychopaths to help NATO destroy the progressive Afghanistan governance. Osama bin Laden was trained by NATO in the mountains of Scotland. All towards the holy aim of Capitalist imperialism, more countries in the Capitalist dominion. The 11-year-old Syria war is also the same thing. Russia is doing good in Syria in destroying the NATO proxies called Al Qaeda and "Muslim" Brotherhood.



ZeGerman said:


> You do realise that most european countries score much better on social mobility, chances, distribution of wealth then your “paradise russia”. Where putin usurped power and wealth, and there are a multitude of oligachs with their million dollar yaughts?



1. I never said Russia is a paradise or a Communist society. It too is a Capitalist society but with Communism existent. The Russian Communist party which is the second-largest party there opposes Putin's party on multiple things it seems yet it supports the Russian operation in Ukraine. We see the USSR flag among the operation's soldiers, whether hoisting it on their tanks or hoisting it on buildings in liberated areas. And then there is the famous Babushka Z.

2. Are million-dollar yachts absent in USA and Europe ?  And as for Europe having social mobility, chances and distribution of wealth it is not so. Please see this post of mine to @Apollon from two months ago for which he hasn't replied to me yet.



ZeGerman said:


> Communist theory most often has been historically abused by those in power, to absolutely trample over the lifes and rights of its “people”. In many ways europe is far more truly socialist then russia or china.
> Even after the latest trend of liberalism.



1. I agree that Communist theory has been exploited, no not exploited but not implemented in multiple societies. North Korea though providing free basic necessities to citizens and being a clean society by all accounts still has a monarchy-like leadership and an Anglo-style government both of which go counter to Communism's desire of the people governing themselves - direct democracy - that idea of "The withering of the State". The first society in modern times to have a truly Communist political system, a true democracy, was the Libyan Jamahiriya ( pre-2011 Libya ). Please read this post of mine on what is Democracy, what is wrong, the origin of democracy and a brief quoting from a thread about Libyan democracy in practise.

2. In my remote knowledge Europe's "Socialism" is an illusion. What is supposedly provided to citizens by the governance is taken from them through other means.

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## ARMalik

vi-va said:


> I think Ukraine War will last much longer than your estimation. Russia only throw 200,000 troops into the war, less than 1/3 of Pakistan Army.



Don't be too simplistic my friend. Russians have not used their STAND-BY troops as yet, there are about 100,000 waiting. They can ACCELERATE/DECELERATE as they wish. *And I think this is one of the biggest surprise for NATO/US - the Russian ability to control the PACE of the war with a much smaller force. *

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## SalarHaqq

Nice debunking of hollow NATO propaganda by competent analysts:

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## vi-va

ARMalik said:


> Don't be too simplistic my friend. Russians have not used their STAND-BY troops as yet, there are about 100,000 waiting. They can ACCELERATE/DECELERATE as they wish. *And I think this is one of the biggest surprise for NATO/US - the Russian ability to control the PACE of the war with a much smaller force. *


Attrition warfare is not in Russia's interest at all. I understand Putin needs to control death rate because it's 21st century, he needs to win the public support, materials and spirit. 

But if the war lasts 5-10 years, the cost will be around half trillions of US dollars, or more.

Who will foot the bill? Only Russians.


----------



## gambit

vi-va said:


> *idolatry*
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Joseph-Studio-Inspired-Bronze-Crucifix/dp/B0054LB4G4
> 
> 
> View attachment 859466


That is not Jesus's body.


----------



## Viet

Why happening? Russia parliament is discussing provisions that will give the government wide ranging authority.

Putin will put the entire economy into wartime mode, restricting labor movements, forcing laborers to work overtime, nights, weekends, no holiday, factories to produce or switching to produce military goods. The statement says the steps are necessary to counter colossal sanctions imposed by the west.

I thought everything goes very well according to plan?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544417179642249216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544442748438134784


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544609812796915713

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544607554268962816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544606753509318662

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544606761948270592

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544606323689521152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544606086816317442

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544606138267799553

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544603592761524224

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## Signalian

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544606323689521152
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544606086816317442
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544606138267799553
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544605400007417856
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544605410715439104


Any website that gives accurate losses of Russian and Ukrainian military equipment ?


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544604969151741953

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544604091929747457

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544601649842470912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544600438351216641


Signalian said:


> Any website that gives accurate losses of Russian and Ukrainian military equipment ?


It is always difficult to assess the losses..

Here is a good read for why:

https://comw.org/pda/russia-ukraine-war-estimating-casualties-military-equipment-losses/

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544617052450832385

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544611587465543680

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544585021226422274

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544594958178476039

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## Primus

Signalian said:


> Any website that gives accurate losses of Russian and Ukrainian military equipment ?


Closest you will get is oryx









Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine







www.oryxspioenkop.com





Thats for Russia









Attack On Europe: Documenting Ukrainian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine







www.oryxspioenkop.com





Thats for Ukraine

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## Signalian

Loss of 123 Russian T-80's and 13 Ukrainian T-80's. Bad for the combat record.

T-72 is even worse.

Lost 21 T-90s however there are still 100's of losses of unknown tank types.


----------



## vi-va

Huffal said:


> Closest you will get is oryx
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.oryxspioenkop.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats for Russia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Attack On Europe: Documenting Ukrainian Equipment Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.oryxspioenkop.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats for Ukraine


Appreciate!

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544388802583699460

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544419253457240064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544356043303620609

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544360020309155842

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## Primus

Signalian said:


> Loss of 123 Russian T-80's and 13 Ukrainian T-80's. Bad for the combat record.
> 
> T-72 is even worse.
> 
> Lost 21 T-90s however there are still 100's of losses of unknown tank types.


Still there is a problem wrt to these counts. These are only visually confirmed losses for both sides. 

Ukraine has announced that anyone who records or takes pictures of Ukrainian losses will be arrested. There is very little pictures of Ukrainian losses compared to Russian, but that doesnt mean Ukraine is taking fewer losses. 

Also T90 being destroyed like that is good news for us. A certain neighbour has those in the thousands))))))

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## Signalian

Huffal said:


> Also T90 being destroyed like that is good news for us. A certain neighbour has those in the thousands))))))


Yes but there are tactics and strategy involved to destroy enemy armor. Planning and deployment too. A good guess can be UCAV attacks on MBTs, however what about artillery fire and ATGM teams. 

Also. there are massive losses of SP artillery. How much effective has CB fire been ? or again is it UCAVs.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544593567892504576

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544592333710163968

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544569220540899332

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544566579945508864

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## Primus

Signalian said:


> Yes but there are tactics and strategy involved to destroy enemy armor. Planning and deployment too. A good guess can be UCAV attacks on MBTs, however what about artillery fire and ATGM teams.
> 
> Also. there are massive losses of SP artillery. How much effective has CB fire been ? or again is it UCAVs.


TB2 UCAVs have been doing a number on Russian military equipment throughout the war. Counter battery artillery fire has been accurate and deadly (from both Russia and Ukraine). ATGMs such as the Javelin haven't been as effective as some people think. Yes they destroyed the enemy tanks, but as per Ukrainian and Russian servicemen, that is after 4 or 5 Javelins have been fired at the same tank (some javelins missed and some didnt get through the ERA and armour). NLAWs had more success than the Javelin. 


But we have to remember the Indian T90 tanks and T72 tanks are a watered down version of the ones sent into Ukraine. No APS of any sorts and also Indian crews manning the tanks instead of Russian crews. Pakistan might not have the Javelin or NLAW but the Kornet is more than enough to deal with Indian T90 tanks and the BS can deal with the T72 tanks that india fields (t72m1 i believe). 

But artillery still rules the battlefield evidently. Glad Pakistan has invested heavily into SP guns and also UCAVs. ATGMs could do with some more investments tho

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544315343979646982

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544320048919093248

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544477040908320770

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544474344071565314

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544461142524936194

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544565525006766082

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544673465621413893
Ukrainian Defense Ministry confirming that Russia is spreading fake propaganda about destroying HIMARS. 

That video is obviously a fake.

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## Viet

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544315343979646982
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544320048919093248
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544477040908320770
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544474344071565314


That’s expected, a war of attrition. Russia strategy is taking Donbas. Ukraine strategy is killing Russians as much as possible, then withdraw from unsustainable positions.
Ukraine army seem retreating back to the first defense line around Bachmut, Soledar and Siwersk. Should they fall, Ukraine army will retreat to the second defense line to Kramatorsk and Slowjansk.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544495977087787014

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544495983761018880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544495987347038208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544495991696531457

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544495998231347201

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544496003201613824


----------



## dBSPL

Lithuania is experiencing one of the most crowded ceremonies in its history!

After the donations collected by the Lithuanian people, Lithuanians who wanted to see the Bayraktar TB2, which was donated by BAYKAR for Ukraine, flocked to the Šiauliai Air Base, where the TB2 located.

















__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544666962437050371

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## PakFactor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> How is it a valid one? Do you know the history of Africans and how much they resisted European colonization? Do you know there are black African nations who have never being colonized? His statement was dumb.



I should have been more clear I meant adopting the Christian religion part.

Reactions: Angry Angry:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544384374023528453

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544384368243888128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544653870558756866

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543664033211056128


----------



## ckf

Oldman1 said:


> Not sure how that sounds desperate, no different than saying Russians using MLRS.
> 
> 
> All these questions you asked makes you sound unsure of yourself. The U.S. has tens of thousands of these missiles and are still in production. In fact they plan to introduce a newer longer range missile with about 150km range by next year with 200km in the future. It can make a big difference in war considering they are hitting ammo depots which they couldn't reach in the first place until 2 weeks ago. Destroying artillery shells needed by the Russians to help advance otherwise they won't move if they can't dislodge the Ukrainians out of their positions. It only took few weeks to train the Ukrainians how to use the HIMARS.


War and Sanctions are unpredictable and Biden Admin/US establishment has invested so much political capital into Ukraine, I am unsure how much more equipment will be sent to Ukraine is reasonable. Whether HIMARS will be effective in the hands of Ukrainian Army is another matter, and since Ukraine doesn't have air lift capabilities/Russia has much more complete airforce and lift capabilities, outcome will only be delayed despite valiant effort of UA. Biden's other goal of disrupting Euro's global ambition is complete. EU + Russia energy /economic integration would of being a very formidable challenge to US.

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## Soldier35

Incredibly, a Russian soldier destroyed an S-300 SAM launcher of Ukraine with one shot, the cost of the S-300 SAM system was $250 million.






What Russia is storming in Ukraine, the defensive structures of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. When they say that the advance of the Russian army in Ukraine is slow, no one usually mentions the built defensive structures of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. It is also worth noting that now is not the Second World War and soldiers are not thrown into attacks on machine gun embrasures. For 8 years, the engineering troops of Ukraine have built many kilometers of defensive systems, this is of course not the Mannerheim Line, but these structures still need to be captured by the troops. Caponiers for heavy military equipment have been prepared in many places, where tanks or armored vehicles can be placed. Built concrete bunkers and bunkers that are even difficult to destroy artillery. You can keep the defense in them for several months in a row, even underground tunnels have been built. War correspondents showed the concrete structures of the Ukrainian army in the Donbass. Some examples of Ukrainian fortifications in the video.

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## Sutam S

> The State Duma has approved " The law on special powers of the government to ensure military operations" today.
> 
> This law allows Russia to begin what can be seen as a partial economic mobilization.








Source: https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5447901?from=top_main_4


----------



## Ali_Baba

Russia Seems To Be Preparing The Vital Kerch Bridge For Missile Attacks​








Russia Seems To Be Preparing The Vital Kerch Bridge For Missile Attacks


Deployment of decoy barges and smokescreens implies Russia is preparing for a possible attack on its highly prized Kerch Strait Bridge.




www.thedrive.com





>> Seems like Russia is now getting v.v.v.v. worried about Ukraine planning to cut off Crimea from Russia by destroying the Kerch Bridge !!!!


----------



## Elvin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544608496964050944


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Germany records first trade deficit in over 30 years​

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544605965399588864

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## F-22Raptor

Anyone else having problems loading pages on this thread?


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544697276114894849






F-22Raptor said:


> Anyone else having problems loading pages on this thread?




Nah, you're probably posting too many of your "muh HIMARS" stories at the same time, and the forum is telling you to give it a time. One comment at a time, and it should load it. But if you keep posting the same story over and over again at the same time, that is when you run into issues.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544758922908733443

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544697276114894849
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, you're probably posting too many of your "muh HIMARS" stories at the same time, and the forum is telling you to give it a time. One comment at a time, and it should load it. But if you keep posting the same story over and over again at the same time, that is when you run into issues.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544686749250617344
Those HIMARS have destroyed 1000s of tons of ammo in the last couple weeks. More destroyed today


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544714353659838468

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544686749250617344
> Those HIMARS have destroyed 1000s of tons of ammo in the last couple weeks. More destroyed today




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544663581521809410

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544605965399588864

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## aziqbal

Russia has found the formula 

its from the old Soviet book called the Soviet steamroller 

from WWII, bring in heavy artillery and move forward the mechanised and infantry units inch by inch metre by metre 

it took 4 weeks to take Mariupol, 4 days to take Severodonetsk and 4 hours to take Lysychansk

this completes the entire Luhansk which is 50% of the Donbas 

tonight Russia is on the outskirts of Siversk and going to take both Slovyansk and Kramatorsk this will essentially give them the whole of the Donestk completing the whole Donbas 

next what happens?

personally I dont think Russia will stop, they may even push onto Odessa and cross the Dinepier river

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544663581521809410
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544605965399588864




Not only were those not HIMARS, Russia missed the target in the video.


----------



## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> Not only were those not HIMARS, Russia missed the target in the video.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544726542110040064

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544810803550978049

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544741846101917697

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544808793418223620

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544811988894769152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544817342106025985

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544817040401354753

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544815747729350656

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544813391906312195

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## TruthSeeker

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JULY 6​Jul 6, 2022 - Press ISW







Download the PDF

*Kateryna Stepanenko, Karolina Hird, George Barros, Grace Mappes, and Frederick W. Kagan
July 6, 6:00 pm ET*​*Click **here** to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.
There were no claimed or assessed Russian territorial gains in Ukraine on July 6 for the first time in 133 days of war, supporting ISW’s assessment that Russian forces have largely initiated an operational pause.*[1] The Russian Defense Ministry claimed territorial gains every day from the start of the war but has not claimed any new territory or ground force movements since completing the encirclement of Lysychansk on July 3.*[2]* However, Russian forces still conducted limited and unsuccessful ground assaults across all axes on July 6.[3] Such attempts are consistent with a Russian operational pause, which does not imply or require the complete cessation of active hostilities. It means, in this case, that Russian forces will likely confine themselves to relatively small-scale offensive actions as they attempt to set conditions for more significant offensive operations and rebuild the combat power needed to attempt those more ambitious undertakings. 
*The Kremlin continued to set conditions for the crypto-mobilization of the Russian economy in anticipation of protracted operations in Ukraine. *The Russian State Duma adopted the third and final reading of a law introduced by the cabinet of ministers on June 30 that will allow the Russian government to oversee and regulate labor relations in Russian enterprises (both state and privately-owned).[4] This law, as ISW has previously reported, will allow government officials to recall workers from personal vacations, reschedule time off without employee consent, and require employees to work weekends, holidays, and nights. These measures allow the Kremlin to take much more direct control of most aspects of the Russian economy, including suspending rights and protections some workers would normally have.[5] The law must still be sent to the Federation Council before it reaches Russian President Vladimir Putin and is officially published, but the Kremlin is likely seeking to use the law to leverage domestic labor to maximize economic output and prepare for protracted operations in Ukraine.[6] Russia’s largest lead production plant reportedly stopped production on July 6 due to the almost-total halt of Russian metallurgical exports, and the Kremlin will likely continue to take measures to codify economic mobilization to offset or mitigate the effects of sanctions and the war on essential industries.[7]
*Key Takeaways*

*The Russian Ministry of Defense has not claimed any territorial gains since July 3, supporting the assessment that Russian forces are conducting an operational pause while still engaging in limited ground attacks to set conditions for more significant offensive operations.*
*The Kremlin continues to prepare for a protracted war by setting conditions for crypto-mobilization of the economy and largely initiating an operational pause in Ukraine.*
*Russian forces conducted offensive operations northwest and east of Slovyansk.*
*Russian forces continued efforts to push westward toward Siversk from the Luhansk-Donetsk oblast border.*
*Russian forces continued attempts to advance toward Bakhmut from the south.*
*Russian forces conducted limited ground attacks north of Kharkiv City.*
*Russian forces conducted unsuccessful ground assaults in northwestern Kherson Oblast.*
*Ukrainian forces may be setting conditions for a counteroffensive toward Kherson City.*
*Russian forces may be forming a new military unit in Mulino, Nizhny Novgorod Oblast.*



*We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.*

Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);
Subordinate Main Effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian Troops in the Cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
Supporting Effort 1—Kharkiv City
Supporting Effort 2—Southern Axis
Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts
Activities in Russian-occupied Areas
*Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine
Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)*
Russian forces continued offensive operations southeast of Izyum and west of Lyman toward Slovyansk on July 6. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces unsuccessfully attempted to advance from Dovhenke to Mazanivka, about 20 km northwest of Slovyansk along the Kharkiv-Donetsk Oblast border.[8] The UK Ministry of Defense noted that Russian forces have likely advanced 5 km toward Slovyansk along the E40 highway and are now within 16 km north of Slovyansk itself, which is consistent with ISW’s current control-of-terrain assessments.[9] NASA Fire Information for Resource Management (FIRMS) data also shows a cluster of fires around Raihorodok, indicating that Russian forces are likely continuing to conduct strikes east of Slovyansk to set conditions for westward advances from the Lyman area.[10]



[Source: NASA Fire Information for Resource Management data for the Raihorodok area on July 6]​Russian forces continued offensive operations toward Siversk from west of Lysychansk and the Luhansk Oblast border on July 6. Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai stated that Russian and Ukrainian troops continue to fight near Lysychansk along the Luhansk Oblast border.[11] The Ukrainian General Staff also stated that Russian forces unsuccessfully fought around Spirne (15 km southeast of Siversk), Verkhnokamyanske (5 km east of Siversk), Hryhorvika (10km northeast of Siversk), and Bilohorivka (15 km northeast of Siversk).[12] Russian forces reportedly conducted artillery and air strikes south of Siversk around Zvanivka, Vesele, and Vyimka.[13] NASA FIRMS data confirms these reports and shows fires near the Luhansk-Donetsk Oblast border to the south and east of Siversk on July 6.



[Source: NASA Fire Information for Resource Management Data for the Siversk area on July 6]​Russian forces continued ground attacks south of Bakhmut on July 6. The Ukrainian General Staff stated that Ukrainian troops repelled attempted Russian advances in the direction of Myronivka-Luhanske, Holmivskyi-Novoluhanske, and Vershyna, all south of Bakhmut and near the critical E40 or T0513 highways that run north into Bakhmut.[14] Residents of Bakhmut observed direct Russian artillery strikes on the city, indicating that Russian forces are continuing to set conditions to launch an assault on the city itself.[15]
Russian forces in the Donetsk City area continued to fire on Ukrainian positions along the Avdiivka-Donetsk City line of contact but did not make any confirmed advances on July 6.[16]



*Supporting Effort #1—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum and prevent Ukrainian forces from reaching the Russian border)*
Russian forces continued attempting limited ground assaults north of Kharkiv City on July 6. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces repelled a Russian assault in the direction of Kozacha Lopan-Sosnivka.[17] Russian Telegram channel Rybar claimed that fighting is ongoing west of Sosnivka and in Svitlychne (8 km southwest of Sosnivka), as well as in Pytomnyk, 20 km north of Kharkiv City.[18] Russian forces continued air and artillery strikes on Ukrainian force concentrations and military and civilian infrastructure in Kharkiv City and the surrounding settlements.[19] The Derhachi City Council reported that Russian forces shelled Derhachi with incendiary munitions.[20] Russian forces shelled Derhachi, Mala Danylivka, Prudyanka, and Slatyne along the T2117 highway and Pytomnyk on the E105 highway to Kharkiv City.[21]



*Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Russian objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia Oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)*
Russian forces conducted unsuccessful offensive operations in northwestern Kherson Oblast and are continuing to fire artillery throughout the Southern Axis to repel Ukrainian counteroffensives. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces stopped Russian assaults in the direction of Lozove, on the eastern bank of the Inhulets River and the Kherson-Mykolaiv Oblast border.[22] FIRMS’ remotely sensed data showed a high number of fires along the Kherson-Mykolaiv and Kherson-Dnipropetrovsk Oblast border. Geolocated footage showed Ukrainian and Russian forces engaged in artillery fire near Snihurivka and Andriivka on the Kherson-Mykolaiv Oblast border.[23] The Ukrainian Southern Operational Command added that Russian forces launched missile strikes on residential infrastructure in Nechayane (approximately 33 km west of Mykolaiv City), but Russian Telegram channels claimed that Russian missiles struck Ukrainian positions.[24] 



[Source: NASA Fire Information for Resource Management Data for Kherson-Mykolaiv and Kherson-Dnipropetrovsk Oblast border for July 6]



[Source: NASA Fire Information for Resource Management Data for Zaporizhia Oblast for July 6]
Ukrainian forces continue to set conditions for a counteroffensive on Kherson City. Geolocated satellite imagery showed that Ukrainian forces struck Russian positions around the Kherson City International Airport in the Chornobaivka area.[25] Kherson Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Khlan reported that Ukrainian forces also struck a Russian ammunition depot in Kherson City’s railway station on July 5.[26] Ukrainian Advisor to the Internal Affairs Minister Anton Gerashchenko published social media footage showing that Russian forces installed countermeasures against precision-guided munitions around the Kerch Bridge.[27]​


*Mobilization and Force Generation Efforts (Russian objective: Expand combat power without conducting general mobilization)*
Russian forces began accumulating military equipment at the 1st Guards Tank Army training ground in Mulino, Nizhny Novgorod Oblast, likely to support the formation of a new military unit. Ukraine’s Conflict Intelligence Team (CIT) observed Russian military vehicles (presumably taken out of storage) heading towards Mulino over the past few weeks.[28] CIT added that an unnamed Russian military source claimed that Russian military commanders are forming a 3rd Army Corps in Mulino, but it is unclear if the Russians are creating a 3rd Corps within the Russian Ground Forces proper or integrating the new unit with existing LNR and DNR 1st and 2nd Army Corps or some other organization.[29] The Russian Ground Forces command structure does not currently have a regular corps echelon--it retains isolated corps associated with some fleets and in Kaliningrad. CIT noted that such evidence supports former Kyiv Oblast Administration Head Oleksandr Pavlyuk’s reports that Russian forces are forming a 15,500-person-strong 3rd Army Corps within the Western Military District (WMD).[30] ISW cannot independently verify CIT or Pavlyuk’s statements, but Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu had previously announced plans to create 12 new WMD units of unspecified echelon on May 20.[31]
Russian forces continue to face personnel generation and covert mobilization challenges. Director of Rochan Consulting Konrad Muzyka cited Finnish outlet Yle, which noted that the Russian army has sent at least one battalion tactical group (BTG) from the 80th Arctic Motorized Rifle Brigade (previously stationed close to the Finnish border in Alakurtti) to support the invasion of Ukraine.[32] The satellite imagery showed that Russian forces have withdrawn 100 military vehicles in May from Alakurtti and roughly 700 servicemen left the base in mid-May.[33] The 80th Arctic Motorized Rifle Brigade was reportedly the last northern brigade to enter the Russian war in Ukraine.[34] Pro-Kremlin media outlets announced the deployment of a new volunteer battalion from the Republic of Bashkortostan (north of Kazakhstan) to Donbas on July 6.[35] The Russian organization “Veterans of the Marine Corps and Special Forces of the Navy” announced the creation of the battalion at the end of May and noted that servicemen received a month of training before deployment.[36] A month is likely not enough time to sufficiently prepare the battalion for frontline hostilities in Donbas. The Republic of Bashkortostan and the Russian Defense Ministry financially incentivized servicemen by offering 200,000 rubles for signing the military contract and 2,000 rubles for every day served.[37] Russian outlet Baza also reported that three unknown assailants conducted an unspecified attack on the 488th Motorized Rifle Regiment of the 20th Combined Arms Army military unit in Klintsy, Bryansk Oblast, likely in protest of Russian covert mobilization practices.[38]
*Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of occupied areas; set conditions for potential annexation into the Russian Federation or some other future political arrangement of Moscow’s choosing)*
Russian authorities continued to take measures to extend administrative control of occupied areas of Ukraine on July 6. The Russian-backed head of the Kharkiv Oblast occupation administration, Vitaly Ganchev, claimed that Russian forces control approximately 20% of Kharkiv Oblast and that Russian authorities intend to create four occupational districts in Kharkiv Oblast—the Izyum, Kupyansk, Vovchansk, and Kharkiv districts.[39] Ganchev also claimed that residents of occupied Kharkiv Oblast are voicing a widespread desire for Russian citizenship and inquiring about Russian passports.[40] Ukraine’s Kherson Oblast head Serhiy Khlan, however, indicated that Russian authorities will likely struggle to impose effective “passportization” measures in occupied Kherson Oblast, problems that will likely also apply to other areas of Ukraine.[41] Khlan stated that even if Russian authorities distribute 200 passports per day, with no days off, they will only distribute 6,000 passports in one month, which amounts to a small portion of the entire population living in occupied Kherson. Khlan also remarked that the majority of those waiting in queues for Russian passports are pensioners. This is notable because of recent reports that Russian authorities in Kherson instituted ruble payments for pensioners and that receiving pensions is contingent on holding a Russian passport.[42] Russian authorities will likely continue to struggle to effectively carry out “passportization” and rely heavily on coercing residents of occupied areas into Russian citizenship.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544838241261699072

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544836314608144388

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544833723140538368


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544827155636490243

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544798735238152193

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544779006767255552

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544743719764721664

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544842573260496896

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544842578251636736

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## K_Bin_W

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544842573260496896
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544842578251636736


Execuses execuses execuses.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544673343206473728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544694771079421959

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## Signalian

Huffal said:


> TB2 UCAVs have been doing a number on Russian military equipment throughout the war. Counter battery artillery fire has been accurate and deadly (from both Russia and Ukraine). ATGMs such as the Javelin haven't been as effective as some people think. Yes they destroyed the enemy tanks, but as per Ukrainian and Russian servicemen, that is after 4 or 5 Javelins have been fired at the same tank (some javelins missed and some didnt get through the ERA and armour). NLAWs had more success than the Javelin.
> 
> 
> But we have to remember the Indian T90 tanks and T72 tanks are a watered down version of the ones sent into Ukraine. No APS of any sorts and also Indian crews manning the tanks instead of Russian crews. Pakistan might not have the Javelin or NLAW but the Kornet is more than enough to deal with Indian T90 tanks and the BS can deal with the T72 tanks that india fields (t72m1 i believe).
> 
> But artillery still rules the battlefield evidently. Glad Pakistan has invested heavily into SP guns and also UCAVs. ATGMs could do with some more investments tho


Brings in the observation if LATs/HATs should have a drone squadron. This serves two purposes:

1. LATs were conceived as Recon elements of the division with jeeps as eyes and ears of the division while drones are excellent at recon being eye in the sky. 
2. LATs were the anti-tank battalion of the division where as UCAVs are the ATGM carriers in the sky.



aziqbal said:


> Russia has found the formula
> 
> its from the old Soviet book called the Soviet steamroller
> 
> from WWII, bring in heavy artillery and move forward the mechanised and infantry units inch by inch metre by metre
> 
> it took 4 weeks to take Mariupol, 4 days to take Severodonetsk and 4 hours to take Lysychansk
> 
> this completes the entire Luhansk which is 50% of the Donbas
> 
> tonight Russia is on the outskirts of Siversk and going to take both Slovyansk and Kramatorsk this will essentially give them the whole of the Donestk completing the whole Donbas
> 
> next what happens?
> 
> personally I dont think Russia will stop, they may even push onto Odessa and cross the Dinepier river


Are Russians deliberately showing a weaker image of themselves to NATO ?

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## ckf

Signalian said:


> Brings in the observation if LATs/HATs should have a drone squadron. This serves two purposes:
> 
> 1. LATs were conceived as Recon elements of the division with jeeps as eyes and ears of the division while drones are excellent at recon being eye in the sky.
> 2. LATs were the anti-tank battalion of the division where as UCAVs are the ATGM carriers in the sky.
> 
> 
> Are Russians deliberately showing a weaker image of themselves to NATO ?


Nato couldn't take Afghanistan's rural areas in 20 years of occupation against herders. Russia is showing NATO how to destroy an enemy with brutal force. Last major US war that was fought with carpet bombing was in Vietnam. Ukraine really need to change tactics and stop fighting in trenches while voluntarily being enveloped by Russian Artillery fire. America/NATO hasn't fought a peer since Korean War, and the sight of a brutal Russian Assault might be sending chills across Europe, and we still haven't seen any major offensive weapons(fighters and missles that can hit russia) by NATO to Ukraine yet. So respect for the Russians among NATO leadership remain despite media hoopla.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544842573260496896
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544842578251636736


I can only imagine why, I am sure China and Russia will buy it on the black market for a fistfull of dollars. LOL

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## Signalian

ckf said:


> Nato couldn't take Afghanistan's rural areas in 20 years of occupation against herders. Russia is showing NATO how to destroy an enemy with brutal force. Last major US war that was fought with carpet bombing was in Vietnam. Ukraine really need to change tactics and stop fighting in trenches while voluntarily being enveloped by Russian Artillery fire. America/NATO hasn't fought a peer since Korean War, and the sight of a brutal Russian Assault might be sending chills across Europe, and we still haven't seen any major offensive weapons(fighters and missles that can hit russia) by NATO to Ukraine yet. So respect for the Russians among NATO leadership remain despite media hoopla.
> 
> 
> I can only imagine why, I am sure China and Russia will buy it on the black market for a fistfull of dollars. LOL


Consolidating ground is alright but how would you explain massive Russian losses ?


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## ckf

Signalian said:


> Consolidating ground is alright but how would you explain massive Russian losses ?


You keep changing your narrative, please state Russian losses that you seem to be alluding to and where those figures come from and how that impact the war?

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544907541137674240

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544937391802032128

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## MH.Yang

если ты против нацистов, ты всегда находишь союзников на востоке.

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## maithil

So Russian steamroller continues. With people losing interest in this conflict, this could get easier for them in couple of months.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544735434714087425

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544794276361641988

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544782107909709835

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544948988079652873

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## MH.Yang

Hack-Hook said:


> well i knew a country that allow a comedian become the leader , now that I think in fact I knew two country 🇺🇦 & 🇺🇸


Yes, two actors become the president of the county, Zelensky and Reagan. But they are different from Hu Jintao.

Although Hu Jintao was only a dam administrator at first, he has successively held the posts of technician, director and director of Gansu Provincial Water Conservancy Bureau, Gansu provincial official and Secretary of Tibet provincial Party committee. He was promoted to every level by virtue of his excellent political achievements, so he does not lack experience, ability and excellent subordinates.

Zelensky and Reagan became the president of a country just because of a film. They lack the experience, ability and subordinates to govern a country. Their power will actually be controlled by their behind the scenes bosses and advisory groups.

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## Signalian

ckf said:


> You keep changing your narrative, please state Russian losses that you seem to be alluding to and where those figures come from and how that impact the war?


1. i didn't change my narrative as I never had one.
2. What do you know of LAT's that you replied me ? Do you have any idea what I was talking about ?
3. I got my figures from a website quoted in past few pages.
4. I am not talking about impact of war, I am asking consolidating ground linked with Russian losses. If that is so difficult to comprehend, please dont quote me again.

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## Viet

Mods should limit the numbers of tweets. The site will become inaccessible otherwise.

@The Eagle

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## NotSure

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544842573260496896
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544842578251636736


Provoke or don't want the russians to see this systems in combat mode and then destroy them?

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545023827675033600

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## K_Bin_W

NotSure said:


> Provoke or don't want the russians to see this systems in combat mode and then destroy them?


Exactly..

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545031539326685184

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545046091564867584
Don't know if the same attempt crossing like last time but the number of Russian material losses seems astonishing

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## Elvin

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544944024619974656


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## Paul2

MH.Yang said:


> Yes, two actors become the president of the county, Zelensky and Reagan. But they are different from Hu Jintao.
> 
> Although Hu Jintao was only a dam administrator at first, he has successively held the posts of technician, director and director of Gansu Provincial Water Conservancy Bureau, Gansu provincial official and Secretary of Tibet provincial Party committee. He was promoted to every level by virtue of his excellent political achievements, so he does not lack experience, ability and excellent subordinates.
> 
> Zelensky and Reagan became the president of a country just because of a film. They lack the experience, ability and subordinates to govern a country. Their power will actually be controlled by their behind the scenes bosses and advisory groups.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 859716



Hu got the job exactly because he was a complete nobody, and stayed a powerless eunuch through his reign.

Massive artillery barrages reported this evening across the front. It's almost as if Russians are trying to tell: you haven't blown up all of our ammo yet!


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545089217524555776


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545107793518202881

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545107311307415553

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545107221385822208

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545105855707860992


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545105375153774595

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545104168737718273

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545103664104218627

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545103408897613825

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## jamal18

Incredibly important discussion on Mike Pompeo's speech. An absolute foundation stone of US policy and the emerging war with China.

' We should recognise an Independent Taiwan regardless of what may occur.' An open acceptance of a Chinese invasion of Taiwan and a war with China. 

Please watch 50 minutes in. A Pacific war is going to kick off.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545101406901833730

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545101412383719426

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545091393474945024

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545091172258963458

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545109259473633280


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545090917610278912

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545089905834983427

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545080125615751174

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545078608405975041

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## Paul2

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545109259473633280



Weakness on display, I wonder if anybody i. the West can read it.

The guy basically says: we lost 1/3 of our standing military just to start fighting for real.

Any other rouge polity would've been railroaded immediately if they made such bad bluff.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545122654310596608

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545079251539566598

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544990069404143616

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545028771052388355

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## Soldier35

Ex-president of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko continues to purchase military equipment for Ukraine. This time, Italian MLS SHIELD armored vehicles were purchased with volunteer funds, according to Poroshenko, the equipment was purchased for the counteroffensive of the Ukrainian army. Unexpectedly for everyone, the Ukrainian site "Peacemaker", which publishes information about the enemies of Ukraine, accused Petro Poroshenko of corruption. Information was posted on the website that allegedly Poroshenko, under the guise of raising funds and purchasing MLS SHIELD armored vehicles, took 40 million hryvnia abroad and allowed the funds to be misused. MLS SHIELD is a 4×4 armored SUV manufactured by TEKNE. The manufacturer guarantees the safety of 10 crew members in the event of a car being blown up by mines and improvised explosive devices, as well as in case of an ambush attack. It is possible to install a warhead in the armored vehicle, in which a machine gun of up to 12.7 mm caliber or an automatic grenade launcher can be installed. According to Petro Poroshenko, he buys armored vehicles in the maximum configuration.






Russian artillery destroyed the Czechoslovak 152-mm self-propelled guns vz.77 "Dana-M2" in the Seversk region with an accurate blow. ACS "Dana-M2" is a modernized version of the self-propelled gun vz.77 "Dana" developed in 1977. Earlier, the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine purchased supported self-propelled guns in the Czech Republic, which caused a scandal. In the Czech Republic itself, the Dana self-propelled guns were decommissioned in 2018 and replaced by CAESAR 155-mm self-propelled guns. The Czech Republic refused to modernize the Dana self-propelled guns due to the impossibility of integrating this installation into a single NATO digital data transmission and target designation system.


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545079780613177345

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545100670797320200

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545036699184406529

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545007508472856576

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## nang2

Paul2 said:


> Weakness on display, I wonder if anybody i. the West can read it.
> 
> The guy basically says: we lost 1/3 of our standing military just to start fighting for real.
> 
> Any other rouge polity would've been railroaded immediately if they made such bad bluff.


The fact that you insist on believing Russia has suffered a huge loss amazes me. I will revisit this subject 6 months from now.

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## The SC




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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545116903798181888

The HIMARS “destroyed” video has now been completed debunked. Russia proven as liars and frauds again.

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## MH.Yang

Paul2 said:


> Weakness on display, I wonder if anybody i. the West can read it.
> 
> The guy basically says: we lost 1/3 of our standing military just to start fighting for real.
> 
> Any other rouge polity would've been railroaded immediately if they made such bad bluff.


At present, the Russians have not even mobilized, and rarely use the air force. So far, the main losses of Russia have come from the rebel officers of the 1st army of the guard tank and the traitors of the Russian Ministry of foreign intelligence. Until now, the 1st army of the guard is still in rectification, and the war in the direction of idum has been at a standstill.

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## 925boy

Signalian said:


> Consolidating ground is alright but how would you explain massive Russian losses ?


prove Russia's losses are "massive"....i bet they arent massive relative to Russia's capability to replenish. GFOH - Putin already said it today that Russia hasnt even thrown that much at Ukraine- and thats' already destroyed Ukraine irreversibly, and demoralized NATO.

ACTION IS TRUTH in war, nothing like a bluff - you either can do or you can't no inbetween.

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## Signalian

925boy said:


> prove Russia's losses are "massive"...


Look at website or go to war zone.



MH.Yang said:


> rarely use the air force.


Is that an effective strategy ?


----------



## F-22Raptor

Signalian said:


> Look at website or go to war zone.
> 
> 
> Is that an effective strategy ?





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545156714353278977

Russian losses now confirmed over 4,600


----------



## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Hack-Hook said:


> NATO not EU, Norway is also part of NATO but not EU.
> and *membership in nato don't need democracy*



True. Here is an example
Evidence: US is not a democracy | Princeton University study​


----------



## K_Bin_W

nang2 said:


> The fact that you insist on believing Russia has suffered a huge loss amazes me. I will revisit this subject 6 months from now.


Me too, by then Ru forces will have been wiped out completely. Lol..

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## ckf

Signalian said:


> 1. i didn't change my narrative as I never had one.
> 2. What do you know of LAT's that you replied me ? Do you have any idea what I was talking about ?
> 3. I got my figures from a website quoted in past few pages.
> 4. I am not talking about impact of war, I am asking consolidating ground linked with Russian losses. If that is so difficult to comprehend, please dont quote me again.


I was responding to your comments regarding Russia showing weaker image/"perceived weakness" to NATO on purpose, which I find it very perplexing, and hence my comments and you responded with comment about Russia's massive losses. I thought your argument is Russia's lack of situational analysis on the ground due to poor integration of drones into reconnaissance units on purpose. My understanding is drones has a lot of limitations/duration limits in complex environment, exhibit one would be Afghanistan, and Ukraine has vast area of hills, forest, ravines and gullies. If you feel my comments are not constructive, please don't quote me again.

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## Signalian

nang2 said:


> The fact that you insist on believing Russia has suffered a huge loss amazes me. I will revisit this subject 6 months from now.


If you have conducted an analysis on it already, do share.


----------



## F-22Raptor

nang2 said:


> The fact that you insist on believing Russia has suffered a huge loss amazes me. I will revisit this subject 6 months from now.





925boy said:


> prove Russia's losses are "massive"....i bet they arent massive relative to Russia's capability to replenish. GFOH - Putin already said it today that Russia hasnt even thrown that much at Ukraine- and thats' already destroyed Ukraine irreversibly, and demoralized NATO.
> 
> ACTION IS TRUTH in war, nothing like a bluff - you either can do or you can't no inbetween.





K_Bin_W said:


> Me too, by then Ru forces will have been wiped out completely. Lol..




Russia has lost a third of their armored force. That’s directly from the top General of the US military. Those are massive losses. 

They’ve expended so many PGMs, their now relying on 1960s era KH-22 antiship missiles for land attack. 

By the end of the year, Russia is looking at 50% losses of their entire armored force. 

Almost 100,000 antitank/armor weapons have been sent to Ukraine. Russian armor will never outnumber the amount of antitank weapons the Ukrainians possess. They will continue to suffer huge losses.

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## MH.Yang

Signalian said:


> Look at website or go to war zone.
> 
> 
> Is that an effective strategy ?


I don't know what the Russians think. Not only the air force, I also wonder why the Russians did not directly attack Kharkov.
Kharkov is close to the border, so Russia can easily take advantage of artillery. Moreover, Kharkov is an industrial center and a population center. Kharkov is a Russian speaking area, and the locals are pro Russian. During WW2, Germany and the Soviet Union broke out in Kharkov to decide the ownership of Ukraine. If Russia chose Kharkov as its main attack direction instead of eastern Ukraine when the Ukrainian war broke out, the situation should be very different now.
Attack Kharkov to force the Ukrainian army to rescue, and use the air force to attack in the process of Ukrainian army transfer.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545205794857107457

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## 925boy

Signalian said:


> Look at website or go to war zone.


Why should i look for "statistics" when the most important thing is to understand who is winning and who is afraid?

you should lose that consultant badge, seriously, consultants are sharp at analyzing things ,but not you.



F-22Raptor said:


> Russia has lost a third of their armored force.


you cant prove this, blockhead.


F-22Raptor said:


> That’s directly from the top General of the US military. Those are massive losses.


LMAO- AND YOU BELIEVED HIM? says alot about your IQ.


F-22Raptor said:


> They’ve expended so many PGMs, their now relying on 1960s era KH-22 antiship missiles for land attack.


LMAO- still telling this lie from day 1 of the war? the equipment Russia uses doesnt matter now, the effect on the battlefield matters.


F-22Raptor said:


> By the end of the year, Russia is looking at 50% losses of their entire armored force.


Will NATO jump in then? or is NATo and US military so broken that it is afraid of a near peer to peer war?


F-22Raptor said:


> Almost 100,000 antitank/armor weapons have been sent to Ukraine. Russian armor will never outnumber the amount of antitank weapons the Ukrainians possess. They will continue to suffer huge losses.


those "Russian losses" are just dreamt up in Americans heads that are in denial..just like they were in denial that sandal wearing taliban beat them and they had to run away....then they started this losing war phase II, with money and equipment they cant afford to spend....oh get ready to rebuild Ukraine ok? cuz US will have to do that. enjoy.

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## Signalian

925boy said:


> Why should i look for "statistics" when the most important thing is to understand who is winning and who is afraid?
> 
> you should lose that consultant badge, seriously, consultants are sharp at analyzing things ,but not you.


Stats are an integral part of any analysis.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545225476809101313

Another huge strike from Ukraine on Russian ammo dump

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## 925boy

Signalian said:


> Stats are an integral part of any analysis.


not if you cant interpret them and know whats important to look for.

Ukraine is getting worked to the bone and NATO cowards cant do much about it and are afraid to enter the war- what dont u understand about this summary of the conflict?


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545170688063033344

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545226668163436545

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545189479870509056

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545226630066540548

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545201622342545408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544967343587184640

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544968402816667649

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545170688063033344




A whole expo that shows the weapons and equipment captured from Ukrainians by the Luhansk People's Republic (LPR).


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545142802085969923

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545207095452225538


----------



## ckf

MH.Yang said:


> I don't know what the Russians think. Not only the air force, I also wonder why the Russians did not directly attack Kharkov.
> Kharkov is close to the border, so Russia can easily take advantage of artillery. Moreover, Kharkov is an industrial center and a population center. Kharkov is a Russian speaking area, and the locals are pro Russian. During WW2, Germany and the Soviet Union broke out in Kharkov to decide the ownership of Ukraine. If Russia chose Kharkov as its main attack direction instead of eastern Ukraine when the Ukrainian war broke out, the situation should be very different now.
> Attack Kharkov to force the Ukrainian army to rescue, and use the air force to attack in the process of Ukrainian army transfer.


Baffled me as well, but Putin is pretty brutal honest guy. If you analyze he's words literally, he's telling the world he's going to demilitarize Ukraine. So he's main goal is not to capture territories per se, he wants to quickly trap UA's best troops and fight the decisive battle ASAP to shorten the cost of War. He's first goal to blitzkrig Kyiv which failed miserably, but forced Ukraine to keep reserves near the capital. Kharkov was also a probing attack and main purpose was to keep UA reserves occupied in the region. Luhansk + Donbas presented opportunity for a decisive battle. Putin coldly calculated that Zelensky's cronies will fight to bitter end rather than retreat in the region, so he took that opportunity to dissect UA defence in Severondonesk and Lysychansk. Ukraine despite knowing full well they are trapped and outgunned are choosing to stand and fight + sending in best equipped special forces + foreign legions again and again to be demolished. Now in Slovyansk + krematorsk, the same scenerio is playing out again. UA trapped in defensive formation waiting for Russian artillery to pummel them. Pretty brilliant so far.

As you say Kharkov would of being far easier target, and allow Russia to attack UA logitical nodes near central Ukraine. But that will sent off alarm bell in Donbas, and Ukraine might of withdrawn its best forces and equipment west of Dnipro river to prolong the war.

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## KendoKhan

Vladimir Putin has told Kyiv it should quickly accept Moscow's terms or brace for the worst, adding ominously that Russia has barely started its action in Ukraine.









Ukraine war: Vladimir Putin's warning that Russia has barely started its action


The Russian president insists he is ready to sit down for talks to end the fighting - but that "those who refuse to do so should know that the longer it lasts the more difficult it will be for them to make a deal with us".




news.sky.com


----------



## NotSure

MH.Yang said:


> I don't know what the Russians think. Not only the air force, I also wonder why the Russians did not directly attack Kharkov.
> Kharkov is close to the border, so Russia can easily take advantage of artillery. Moreover, Kharkov is an industrial center and a population center. Kharkov is a Russian speaking area, and the locals are pro Russian. During WW2, Germany and the Soviet Union broke out in Kharkov to decide the ownership of Ukraine. If Russia chose Kharkov as its main attack direction instead of eastern Ukraine when the Ukrainian war broke out, the situation should be very different now.
> Attack Kharkov to force the Ukrainian army to rescue, and use the air force to attack in the process of Ukrainian army transfer.


Because it is so close to Russia, the fate of the city is already sealed. After the russian army advanced west of the city, there is no way Kiev can hold and support it. Then Russia can easily take it, without big fights and damage like in mariupol.

More important is now to capture Odessa to turn Natos puppet "state" into a land locked country. After that Ukropistan is done and there will be no sense to hold Kharkov, they will need all their troops for Kiev etc.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545290028355567617

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545332698427887617

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## sammuel

~

A moment to reflect.

This war is a constant reminder that humanity is not going where it should.

This is where we are supposed to get :

*" And they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift the sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore. "*

Isaiah ,Chapter 2 verse 4


Which is hardly where we are standing at today. How to get from where we are now to there . . . ?

Any suggestions are welcome.



quo vadis domine . . .


~

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545336447800074241

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545278271750815744

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545068672221421568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545279562392768513

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545344407653826562

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545288086413770753
The ghanima/trophies captured from Ukrainians in Lisichansk


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545354736949493762

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545333264885465089

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545350708697784321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545319590468648962


Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545336447800074241




Where are your "muh HIMARS" when Siversk is currently getting showered with Russian artillery?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545317233739661312

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545290028355567617
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545332698427887617




Well, these Ukrainian who just surrendered disagreed with you. 👇


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545301530542329856

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545362503349190657

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545336593489215489

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545329722263052289
China and Russia on Friday joined world leaders in expressing shock at the shooting of ex-Japan prime minister Shinzo Abe. A Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson told Reuters the Xi Jinping government hopes Abe will be out of danger and recover soon, while AFP said Russia had called the attack 'monstrous' and an 'act of terrorism'.

Shinzo Abe, 67, was shot 11.30 am Friday in the Japanese city of Nara while campaigning for Sunday's election to Japan's Upper House.

He was declared dead around six hours later.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/reaction-shooting-japans-former-pm-abe-2022-07-08/

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545299181220290562

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545291229465874432

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545284205449453568

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545123418365956098

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545128126329618432

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545120622870757378

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545119124271030273

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545112853023277057

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545110553382854657

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545372274013913089

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545357661927096322

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545306015368970241

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545302711280754690

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545290767689728001

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545360980020006913

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545338422050578432

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545319767732637696

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545354443142602753

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545290028355567617


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545354443142602753

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545280049846394880

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## Iron Shrappenel

W


Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545120622870757378
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545119124271030273
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545112853023277057
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545110553382854657


Why don't the reverse that truck closer ?????

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545073829403365376

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545450157126434821

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545449359063621641

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545408873443610626

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545442908941189121

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545448443518373891

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545450687789731844

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545450569451683841

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545408283409846273

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545408289600569349

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545407277238206464

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545406647597678596

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## Soldier35

A strange movement of one of the tanks of the Ukrainian army was recorded in Kharkov, apparently the driver of the tank is driving in a state of intoxication.






There were shots of the destruction of another Ukrainian installation of the S-300 air defense system with the help of a machine gun, the destruction of the complex by Russian soldiers is also carried out with a shot from a machine gun






The Russian military showed captured Ukrainian equipment obtained during the battles in Ukraine for the city of Lisichansk. The video shows only part of the military equipment, since there was simply nowhere to place everything. In an attempt to get out of the encirclement, the Ukrainian army abandoned serviceable equipment in many places. The symbols of the Russian army have already been applied to some of the military equipment and it is used at the front.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545405829461024770

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545406319888302081

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545405760162643972

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545405315214188550

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## Clutch

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545290028355567617
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545332698427887617



Russia needs to seriously take the next step and go nuclear against Ukraine. The Russians are outgunned by the Ukraine+NATO vs. Russia mismatch.



KendoKhan said:


> Vladimir Putin has told Kyiv it should quickly accept Moscow's terms or brace for the worst, adding ominously that Russia has barely started its action in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine war: Vladimir Putin's warning that Russia has barely started its action
> 
> 
> The Russian president insists he is ready to sit down for talks to end the fighting - but that "those who refuse to do so should know that the longer it lasts the more difficult it will be for them to make a deal with us".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.sky.com




Barely started???.... Russia has lost over 50% of its armoured forces and most of its senior staff... I guess Russia will "start" fighting once it's lost 90% of its forces????



Btw.. I support Russia in this conflict


----------



## Vergennes

Spoiler: graphic





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545502631350632450


----------



## zectech

Washington wants a crash of the EU over this Ukraine War because never let a crisis go to waste. Europe is the big prize. The Marshall Plan 2.0 is not to benefit Europe. After the Euro collapses, the EU is going to be forced to accept a new central bank of bitcoin as the global currency. Bankers are heavily invested in bitcoins, Big Tech is heavily invested in bitcoin, wall street is heavily invested in bitcoin, the new robber barons of the Paypal Mafia are heavily invested in bitcoin, anti-China Qanoners are heavily invested in bitcoin. Any pro-cia group in the US are into bitcoin, the new central bank, if paper currency collapses. The SEC said bitcoin and only bitcoin is a commodity among the cryptos. The Marshall Plan 1.0 was about saving Europe from Communism and Russia. To make Europe a success to be on the side of Washington because capitalism would be a success in Europe during the cold war. Putin and Trump want to shut that success down. Have a Washington monopoly over Europe, no more ECB, no more euro. Have the euro crash. Have a new imposed central bank on Europe and the rest of the globe.


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545403184293842944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545400639768887296

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545400643858448385

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545399815785299973

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545373503964303365

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545388109369675777


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545553780527202304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545537732814012419

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545552953330876417

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Russian armed forces raining artillery and missiles on Ukrainian positions


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545498414653345792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545499226024574976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545439732099956736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545428055572758528

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545426720718819329


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545410046456127490

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545407053082001409

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545389614537576448

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545352460008652801

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545564780525768707

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545562494860771329

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545543750956552193

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545512723626205187

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545473412243628032

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545460548946608128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545437977731555328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545424772812644352

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545485802892922886

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545486059861065729


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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545405424911933441


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545481481908326401

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545569572383870976

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545436391345164289

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## jhungary

Oldman1 said:


> Right now I believe the MLRS can help that. MLRS can help target their ammo depots that provides artillery shells for their artillery, besides C&C and SAMs and other high value targets. Also I believe they can use them if in large numbers of M270s and HIMARS as you mentioned to target the Russian artillery especially since they are the only things helping the Russians advance by destroying everything and moving on. Without them, their advances will not move since they fear of getting their tanks and vehicles destroyed by mines or anti tank missiles or Ukrainian artillery. So if the Ukrainians can destroy or even deter the Russians from getting close to provide artillery support, it would help tremendously. Course can't stop long range rockets like Smerch and Uragans (unless hit by HIMARS or MLRS), but they are fewer in numbers and more expensive compared to firing tens of thousands of shells a day. Later on with more MLRS like those 70 or so in storage you mentioned, it could help with the counteroffensive in all fronts.


Technically, they can pull this off with the 8 HIMARS they have (The other 4 arrived in Ukraine as per my source) they can put M777 Artillery just outside the range, use HIMARS to attack air airfield and blitz it thru with a combine arms brigade, taking the Airport will hammer Russian ability to support the defence of Kherson. You also cannot launch drone to seek out the M777, once the airfield is captured. Then you pull in M777 or Caesar or what have you, then you target the ground base target, both hard and soft. Then what left is a Manoeuvre warfare that you can move troop quickly to block the reinforcement and encircle the entire city.

Notice that the Ukrainian has been gaining ground from the coastal area in the last week or so, it's possible for them to pin the defence in Kherson with the frontal force and hammer it away with the coastal force.



Viet said:


> Why happening? Russia parliament is discussing provisions that will give the government wide ranging authority.
> 
> Putin will put the entire economy into wartime mode, restricting labor movements, forcing laborers to work overtime, nights, weekends, no holiday, factories to produce or switching to produce military goods. The statement says the steps are necessary to counter colossal sanctions imposed by the west.
> 
> I thought everything goes very well according to plan?


The requirement for company to unconditional support the military effort bit for his new decree show you it's everything BUT going well for them.

I mean how far can you go if you are forced to support a war that wasn't happening in your own soil. People are going to ask question and on the other hand, switching to military economic will further destroy any economic activities in Russia....

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## jhungary

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544673465621413893
> Ukrainian Defense Ministry confirming that Russia is spreading fake propaganda about destroying HIMARS.
> 
> That video is obviously a fake.


Think there were only 4 in country when they claim they destroyed 2.

IIRC, the Ukrainian invite a crew from CNN another crew from British television (Don't remember which one) to report on the HIMARS 

This is the report from CNN

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## monitor

UK MOD- "Russia is moving reserve forces from across the country and assembling them near Ukraine for future offensive operations. A large proportion of the new infantry units are probably deploying with MT-LB vehicles taken from long-term storage as their primary transport."


----------



## jhungary

MH.Yang said:


> I don't know what the Russians think. Not only the air force, I also wonder why the Russians did not directly attack Kharkov.
> Kharkov is close to the border, so Russia can easily take advantage of artillery. Moreover, Kharkov is an industrial center and a population center. Kharkov is a Russian speaking area, and the locals are pro Russian. During WW2, Germany and the Soviet Union broke out in Kharkov to decide the ownership of Ukraine. If Russia chose Kharkov as its main attack direction instead of eastern Ukraine when the Ukrainian war broke out, the situation should be very different now.
> Attack Kharkov to force the Ukrainian army to rescue, and use the air force to attack in the process of Ukrainian army transfer.


Is that one of you "expertise" again??

First of all, THEY HAD ATTACKED Kharkiv, and was beaten back, it was attacked on day 1 and the Ukrainian pushed them all the way back to 5 miles outside Russian Border back in May.

The problem is what Ukrainian had in the strategic crossing they hold the area that can sever the key GLOC toward the Eastern Donbas region. Which mean if the Russian wanted to keep on attacking, they will need to spread their force to protect their own supply line, meanwhile have to concentrate their force on attacking Donbas. If they push toward Kharkiv again, setting aside can that be done in a moment, that mean they will either have to stop the Donbas advance completely for months (that's how long the last attack last) which will give Ukrainian time to consolidate their line and pull in Reinforcement or they will have to thin out their protection along their Northern GLOC, which will open to counter attack, the risk is too much because you are risking the collapse of the entire Northern GLOC.

As for Airforce, it is not what you have, but how are you going to use it, first of all, a lot of their Airforce is static element, which are needed to guard the airspace toward Japan, South Korea, Poland, Finland, even if you say China will not attack Russia and Russia are allowed to pull every aircraft in operation there, you are talking about 100-200 combat aircraft can be used at anytime. Of the 1500 aircraft on paper, 300+ of those are Transport, another 200+ is trainer and other aircraft, only leave about 800-900 Fighter/Attacker aircraft, half of those are old Su-24/Su-25. Secondly, Russia do not have stealth aircraft not any combat support aircraft beside AWACS, and they are facing a peer or near peer air defence power. Which mean you are seriously risking being shot down (and 40 Russian fighter did got shot down) when you penetrate thru the Ukrainian Airspace.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545676815674605570

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## Ali_Baba

U.S. Says Russia’s Prized Kerch Bridge Is A Fair Target For Ukrainian Forces​








U.S. Says Russia's Prized Kerch Bridge Is A Fair Target For Ukrainian Forces


The $3.5B bridge Russia built to connect with Crimea is a major strategic and economic asset that Moscow seems very concerned with protecting.




www.thedrive.com





_>> *forshadowing*??_

*Russia Now Firing S-300 Surface-To-Air Missiles At Land Targets In Ukraine: Official*









Russia Now Firing S-300 Surface-To-Air Missiles At Land Targets In Ukraine: Official


The Russian S-300 surface-to-air missile system does have a little-known latent ability to strike land targets.




www.thedrive.com





_>> _*Russia is running out of missiles and PGMs !!!! ... thought Putin said the "war is just starting and you ain't seen anything yet ???"*


----------



## Primus

Ali_Baba said:


> U.S. Says Russia’s Prized Kerch Bridge Is A Fair Target For Ukrainian Forces​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. Says Russia's Prized Kerch Bridge Is A Fair Target For Ukrainian Forces
> 
> 
> The $3.5B bridge Russia built to connect with Crimea is a major strategic and economic asset that Moscow seems very concerned with protecting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> forshadowing??
> 
> Russia Now Firing S-300 Surface-To-Air Missiles At Land Targets In Ukraine: Official
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Now Firing S-300 Surface-To-Air Missiles At Land Targets In Ukraine: Official
> 
> 
> The Russian S-300 surface-to-air missile system does have a little-known latent ability to strike land targets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> Russia is running out of missiles and PGMs !!!! ... though Putin said the "war is just starting and you ain't seen anything yet ???"


Oh god not this crap being peddled again. Ive heard the Russians were running out of all PGMs and CM since the first week of the war. More propaganda. Annoying as hell

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545704309060300802

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545706091203403776

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545701653948645377

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545677455670841344

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## Vergennes

New ammo depots go boom


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545633417299197954

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545673763966025728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545626706886770688

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545700209589616640

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545699569987715077

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545698419703947265

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545635371618160640

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545692354388135941

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545706527306223621

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545705513593233409

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545705201562255366

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545714285560696842

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545714646442704896

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545508030006976512


----------



## MH.Yang

Soviet military song: 红军最强大





Soviet military song: 斯拉夫女人的告别

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## MH.Yang

Soviet military song: 草原啊草原






Soviet military song: 神圣的战争


----------



## ckf

jamal18 said:


> Incredibly important discussion on Mike Pompeo's speech. An absolute foundation stone of US policy and the emerging war with China.
> 
> ' We should recognise an Independent Taiwan regardless of what may occur.' An open acceptance of a Chinese invasion of Taiwan and a war with China.
> 
> Please watch 50 minutes in. A Pacific war is going to kick off.


Russia told US and Ukraine that War was coming if NATO continues to push weapons into Ukraine, and abandoning Minsk accord. This article mentions in November 2021, EU commission was planning economic sanctions against Russia for a US proxy war in Ukraine. People forget that Ukraine/EU had agreed to Minsk accord, but under US led NATO drive for Ukraine, that was completely abandoned. G7/NATO had this grandiose plan to use economic sanctions to cripple and destroy Russian economy, that didn't work as exactly planned. 









How Well Are European Sanctions Against Russia Working?


The European Union spent months preparing comprehensive sanctions against Russia in the event of an invasion of Ukraine. The measures are deeper than anything ever passed before in Brussels, but are they working?




www.spiegel.de

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## vizier

Ali_Baba said:


> U.S. Says Russia’s Prized Kerch Bridge Is A Fair Target For Ukrainian Forces​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. Says Russia's Prized Kerch Bridge Is A Fair Target For Ukrainian Forces
> 
> 
> The $3.5B bridge Russia built to connect with Crimea is a major strategic and economic asset that Moscow seems very concerned with protecting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _>> *forshadowing*??_
> 
> *Russia Now Firing S-300 Surface-To-Air Missiles At Land Targets In Ukraine: Official*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Now Firing S-300 Surface-To-Air Missiles At Land Targets In Ukraine: Official
> 
> 
> The Russian S-300 surface-to-air missile system does have a little-known latent ability to strike land targets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _>> _*Russia is running out of missiles and PGMs !!!! ... thought Putin said the "war is just starting and you ain't seen anything yet ???"*


Targeting the kerch bridge with new 300km himars can make Russia declare general mobilisation. That would put the situation to an almost irreversible status and make situation very difficult for Ukraine. Other targets like ammo depots airbases transportation are more strategic but wont result in mobilisation. Crimea and kerch bridge seem to have a symbolic meaning as Russia recognises the place as their own land.

Drones are not usable as before under ew environment because they dont use ai but radio control. If they navigate by ai remotely to waypoints or at least fly straight and return back with sigint pods ew vehicle positions can be detected for artillery-mlrs strikes. Ukraines best strategy would be to hold off by getting sams to defend western parts and use homemade easily produced mlrs in frontlines without provoking Russia too much like attacking Kerch or deep inside Russian territory. The aim should be to restart negotiations process without insisting on certain preconditions leaving it to the negotiation process. Both sides are suffering high casualties continiously and there would be flexibility from both sides.

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## The SC



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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545786411110092801

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545817067508695042

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545707537542029317

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545478944538902528

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## oberschlesier

The EU Natural Gas storage for Winter is at 60.83% and growing.



Gas Infrastructure Europe - AGSI

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545666801018802176

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545821567975923718

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545829375265865729

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## F-22Raptor

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545829375265865729



Just look at the Russian idiocy. All those vehicles so closely packed together.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545479924131266564

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545730267075207170

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545849623801171968

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## ckf

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545730267075207170


Why would you trust Biden's admin after afghanistan withdraw, and look at how Russian sanctions backfired? Ukraine needs a lot more than weapons to fight the Russians. Ukraine economy is in ruins and needs funds to upkeep cities, gov't admin + funding army personnel's, logistics and weapons. Is America/G7 really prepare to print 60 billion usd to fund Ukraine when inflation already at 8.6% and fed hiking rates to combat inflation. Seems contradictory policies to me. 

Just a bit of reminder for American pumpers, yo all has been all wrong on this war, and Boris even resigned. Fantasy of America foreign policy review on Russia and China alliance couldn't be more wrong. EU can't live without Russian resources and US can't live without Chinese goods, not the reverse. Russia - China Alliance will define the new multipolar world and effectively made both parties stronger on the back of global supply chain. Biden's Ukraine war will effectively end the US global hedgemony, and perhaps in history known as "sleeopy Joe" blows up America. A deep global recession now is unfortunately unavoidable and let see if Euro/Yen can survive. All signs of empire downfall start with its periphery burns.

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## sammuel

~​
meanwhile back in Russia :
​Moscow city councillor gets seven years' jail for anti-war comment​














*Moscow city councillor Alexei Gorinov, holds a placard reading "Do you still need this war?" as he stands inside a defendants' cage during a court hearing in Moscow, Russia July 8, 2022*


A Moscow district councillor was jailed for seven years on Friday for criticising Russia's invasion of Ukraine, in what a Kremlin-critical lawyer said was the first case of anyone going to prison under a new law on "fake information".

Alexei Gorinov, a member of the Krasnoselsky district council, told a council meeting on March 15, where a children's drawing contest was discussed, that Russia was waging a war of aggression against Ukraine.

"What kind of children's drawing contest can we talk about for Children's Day ... when we have children dying every day?" he says in a recording of the meeting posted on YouTube.

He was arrested under Article 207.3 of the criminal code, passed shortly after Russia invaded Ukraine on Feb. 24 to outlaw "deliberate dissemination of fake information about Russia's army", defined as information deviating from official reports

Gorinov's supporters posted a picture on their Telegram channel of the councillor, handcuffed in a glass defendant's cage, holding up a placard reading: "Do you still need this war?" during the proceedings.

"They took away my spring, they took away my summer, and now they've taken away seven more years of my life," they quoted him as saying at Friday's sentencing.

Leonid Volkov, chief of staff for jailed opposition leader Alexei Navalny, said the sentence - confirmed on the court's own Telegram account - was meant to make an example of people using the word "war" to refer to Russia's actions in Ukraine.


Since beginning what it calls a "special military operation", Russia has cracked down on media and individuals referring to its actions as a "war" or "invasion".

Many people have been handed administrative fines for protesting against the war, but lawyer Pavel Chikov said on Telegram that only two others had been convicted of criminal offences under Article 207.3, and that one had been fined and the other given a suspended jail sentence.

Russia says it had to use force to defend persecuted Russian-speakers and defuse a military threat from Ukraine.

Kyiv and its Western allies dismiss such justifications as baseless pretexts for a war of conquest that has cost thousands of lives, razed towns and cities and displaced a third of Ukraine's population.










Moscow city councillor gets seven years' jail for anti-war comment


A Moscow district councillor was jailed for seven years on Friday for criticising Russia's invasion of Ukraine, in what a Kremlin-critical lawyer said was the first case of anyone going to prison under a new law on "fake information".




www.reuters.com

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545841274045042689

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545836009958653952

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545835840353574913

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545828219995168768

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545827863433297920

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## Paul2

vizier said:


> Targeting the kerch bridge with new 300km himars can make Russia declare general mobilisation. That would put the situation to an almost irreversible status and make situation very difficult for Ukraine. Other targets like ammo depots airbases transportation are more strategic but wont result in mobilisation. Crimea and kerch bridge seem to have a symbolic meaning as Russia recognises the place as their own land.



Then, it's moreover a priority target. A Doolitle raid is needed more for terror effect, than for actual damage.

So far, the war been without any personal cost to Russian upper classes, who see no impact on their daily lives, and this there were no elite revolt so far.

Them having a stake in russian military making out alive from Ukraine will certainly rile up feathers in Kremlin. So far, he only been sending volunteers from poor rural areas, and disposable Mongol/Chechen units.

If it will be the elite kids from Moscow dying, I bet something is ought to happen. If it was China's war, there would be absolutely no chance of kids of rich CPC members serving as political commissars being sent to the meatgrinder.


----------



## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545871702172786689

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## The SC




----------



## MH.Yang

Paul2 said:


> Then, it's moreover a priority target. A Doolitle raid is needed more for terror effect, than for actual damage.
> 
> So far, the war been without any personal cost to Russian upper classes, who see no impact on their daily lives, and this there were no elite revolt so far.
> 
> Them having a stake in russian military making out alive from Ukraine will certainly rile up feathers in Kremlin. So far, he only been sending volunteers from poor rural areas, and disposable Mongol/Chechen units.
> 
> If it will be the elite kids from Moscow dying, I bet something is ought to happen. If it was China's war, there would be absolutely no chance of kids of rich CPC members serving as political commissars being sent to the meatgrinder.


At present, China has 90million Communists, 80million members of the Communist Youth League and 250million young pioneers. The number of Communist members at all levels in China accounts for 30% of China's total population. Almost every family has members related to CCP.

If the army does not recruit CCP's children, the army cannot recruit any recruits.

Unlike Russia, Chinese CCP members has no privileges, and even CCP members must make certain sacrifices. When the flood came, these CCP members first jumped to the dam gap and blocked the flood with their bodies. Covid is here. They need to work for free to help the medical staff. Whenever the government needs volunteers, they will use CCP party orders to recruit CCP members.

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## Dalit

Everyone is tired of this war and it doesn't get the same coverage anymore. It is a back cover story now. Initially there was a lot of talk and support for Ukraine. That talk and support is now dwindling among the ordinary people. As economic hardships are affecting the world Ukraine is left to its own devices.

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## oberschlesier

Dalit said:


> Everyone is tired of this war and it doesn't get the same coverage anymore. It is a back cover story now. Initially there was a lot of talk and support for Ukraine. That talk and support is now dwindling among the ordinary people. As economic hardships are affecting the world Ukraine is left to its own devices.


It`s just the beginning. This war could take 5-10 years.

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## ckf

oberschlesier said:


> It`s just the beginning. This war could take 5-10 years.


Ukraine is already ruined, and the country is bankrupt. Two factors will end this war, externally Eu and US funding 60 billion USD a year to keep Zelensky's gov't in power this year, and the sanctions are becoming very unpopular in Europe and US, no way for funding beyond this year. Internally, Zelensky's policy of drafting all men and including even Women in the Army is becoming very unpopular, either an uprising or coup by the Army will end this madness soon as people of Ukraine realizes they are cannon fodders.

Sooner or later, Biden's admin will realize China is winning the Ukraine war, buying cheap Russia energy and resources + financing US debt at higher interest rates.









Volodymyr Zelensky survives three assassination attempts in days


President Zelensky has survived at least three assassination attempts in the past week, The Times has learnt.Two different outfits have been sent to kill the Uk




www.thetimes.co.uk

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## The SC

Humanity is now like:


----------



## MH.Yang

ckf said:


> Ukraine is already ruined, and the country is bankrupt. Two factors will end this war, externally Eu and US funding 60 billion USD a year to keep Zelensky's gov't in power this year, and the sanctions are becoming very unpopular in Europe and US, no way for funding beyond this year. Internally, Zelensky's policy of drafting all men and including even Women in the Army is becoming very unpopular, either an uprising or coup by the Army will end this madness soon as people of Ukraine realize they are just Cannon fodders.


I feel very good, only pain can make people reflect. 
Before, only Iraqis, Afghans and Syrians were in pain. Now the whole world is in pain.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545950944411754498
Another HIMARS strike on ammo dump. 

Ukraine has hit tens of thousands of tons of ammo the last few weeks.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Ghanima / trophies of Ukrainian equipment captured by the Russian in an exhibition near Moscow


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545849223140315137

Russians blowing up Ukrainian hideouts in the Donbass


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545825270359375872

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545810892746620930
Ukrainian forces showing how much they're demoralized. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545797941742505985

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543895558271778819

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545738296613027840

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## ckf

The SC said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545666801018802176


US funding and promoting Chinese Drone maker DJI...Hunter Biden must be getting a cut in this somehow.

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Vergennes said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545673763966025728
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545626706886770688



All the credit should go to US and Turkiye. Other NATO countries are just crap.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545892950965731329

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545892453827354627

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545892086217670659

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545891393163362306

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## ckf

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> All the credit should go to US and Turkiye. Other NATO countries are just crap.


Are u expecting cunning Germans and French to agree to all out war with Russia? haha, Macron and Scholtz are trying to sabotage American efforts quietly. The dominanance of US in NATO is hijacking EU independence.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545378345290022914
The Belgorod can carry 6 Poseidon UUVs.

Russian Navy ordered 4 Khabarovsk class nuclear-powered submarines.

*Poseidon UUV*​*




*

The Poseidon is a new Russian Unmanned Underwater Vehicle (UUV) with a nuclear propulsion system and nuclear warhead. Essentially it is an autonomous nuclear torpedo that has unlimited range..
*http://www.military-today.com/navy/poseidon.htm*​
*



*






What a technological advance...Putin has planned everything..

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545843260068954112


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1098174570010427392

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## sammuel

Dalit said:


> Es.



Dalit responded to this post :









Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments






defence.pk





Moscow city councillor gets seven years' jail for anti-war comment​
By writing ha ha .

Maybe you you would like to explain , white exactly is it you find funny , when an innocent man is sent to some hell hole for seven years ?

~









" “They took away my spring, they took away my summer, and now they’ve taken away seven more years of my life,” they quoted him as saying at Friday’s sentencing. "









Moscow city councillor jailed for 7 years for anti-war comment


Alexei Gorinov told a council meeting on March 15 that Russia was waging a war of aggression against Ukraine.




www.aljazeera.com





~

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545995653461037057

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545995992587182081

The Ukrainians are annihilating Russian ammo dumps with HIMARS. 

Look at those fireworks

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## Soldier35

The Ukrainian army began to mine the roads leading to Belarus. Mining of roads is carried out because of the expected invasion of Belarus into Ukraine. The Command of the Joint Forces of Ukraine reported that the engineering equipment of the state border is underway, including the mining of the most dangerous areas.






Almost two months have passed since the Russian BMPT "Terminator" appeared in Ukraine. Despite such a period, no frames of the combat operation of the machines appeared, and it is not clear what this is connected with. The cars are not destroyed, as the video would have appeared long ago. BMPT "Terminator" are still in Ukraine and apparently work, as one of them arrived for maintenance in the workshops


----------



## Dalit

ckf said:


> Ukraine is already ruined, and the country is bankrupt. Two factors will end this war, externally Eu and US funding 60 billion USD a year to keep Zelensky's gov't in power this year, and the sanctions are becoming very unpopular in Europe and US, no way for funding beyond this year. Internally, Zelensky's policy of drafting all men and including even Women in the Army is becoming very unpopular, either an uprising or coup by the Army will end this madness soon as people of Ukraine realizes they are cannon fodders.
> 
> Sooner or later, Biden's admin will realize China is winning the Ukraine war, buying cheap Russia energy and resources + financing US debt at higher interest rates.



Papa America is very desperate to find a strong energy supplier. Saudi Arabia is that controversial country. Biden has to justify his upcoming visit to Saudi Arabia through a Washington Post column LOL



https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/07/09/joe-biden-saudi-arabia-israel-visit/



The USA cannot even convince its stuanchest ally India from purchasing Russian oil/gas LOL Of course China is set to gain maximum benefit during Russian military operation. Good for China.



MH.Yang said:


> I feel very good, only pain can make people reflect.
> Before, only Iraqis, Afghans and Syrians were in pain. Now the whole world is in pain.



Selective pain. It is funny to hear the word pain all of a sudden lately.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545851102633115650

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## Dalit

sammuel said:


> Dalit responded to this post :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> defence.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moscow city councillor gets seven years' jail for anti-war comment​
> By writing ha ha .
> 
> Maybe you you would like to explain , white exactly is it you find funny , when an innocent man is sent to some hell hole for seven years ?
> 
> ~
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> " “They took away my spring, they took away my summer, and now they’ve taken away seven more years of my life,” they quoted him as saying at Friday’s sentencing. "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moscow city councillor jailed for 7 years for anti-war comment
> 
> 
> Alexei Gorinov told a council meeting on March 15 that Russia was waging a war of aggression against Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aljazeera.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~



Your tone has changed a lot lately on PDF? What happened? Did you opt for a new character? From posting sarcastic and bully comments to a person that is in deep sorrow and pain.

Yes. I do smile. Especially when I visit this topic. I laugh at your hypocrisy. I hope you figured that by now.

Let me tell you one thing straight. I don't give a hoot about your pain and sorrow. That is your personal problem. Secondly, I don't believe in your nasty propaganda. There, I have set the record straight.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545851102633115650



Wow. Zelensky. A man that has been ditched and silenced by his backers. Somehow he reminds me a lot of the Kurds and Afghan interpreters.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545992514062102534

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545933003636875264

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545988087062228994

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545995460984258560


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545714285560696842

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546041366244954112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546020060833222659

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546022043057012737

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545794908073574400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546037568738889731

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546022980001710080

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546033360522313730

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## Vergennes

Desperation it seems


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545899301628526595


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546025330804228098

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546024703780954112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546023048159051778

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546021415941718016

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546006161970831361

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546005481289912320

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## Dalit

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546022980001710080



LOL This is US and EU ally India backstabbing papa America in broad daylight. It is a mindboggling experience to witness the Americans receiving an epic humiliation in broad daylight. What will be even more tasty is the Americans making up excuses how India needs Russia blah blah. Such an incredible humiliation.

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## sammuel

Dalit said:


> Your tone has changed a lot lately on PDF? What happened? Did you opt for a new character? From posting sarcastic and bully comments to a person that is in deep sorrow and pain.
> 
> Yes. I do smile. Especially when I visit this topic. I laugh at your hypocrisy. I hope you figured that by now.



Have no idea what you are referring to..

Fact is that a man was thrown to 7 years in prison to some hell hole in some harsh labor camp.

For no reason other than voicing his opinion.

And you talk about hypocrisy. . .

You seem to enjoy expressing yourself freely on this forum , why do you think this man do not deserve the same courtesy ? 

~

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545891292667846658

Reactions: Haha Haha:
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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546098544704200706

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546077106924404736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546036676639834112

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545787125114802177

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546112964129964032

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546112964129964032



There are thousands of German soldiers stationed in the baltics to fight the Russians and protect the baltic states.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546124423618592768

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## Hassan Al-Somal

Base housing the much-hyped M-777 howitzers got hit and roughly 30 soldiers killed in addition to those howitzers taken out.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546057689259642880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546008620067745792

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546132057595715584

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546100085246906368

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546080412371492864

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546075962869260289

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546075612074344449

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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546132057595715584



I heard Russians lost 350 tanks and Artillery in the last couple of days since HIMARS joined the war.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546005415594528768

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546134578452201473


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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546088298778591233

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546091917255086080

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545754355365810176

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545733866857586689

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545412929792737282


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## mazeto

Another one month of summer and Autumn is at hand.
I would like to know from knowledgeable guys on both sides of the fence, how does the geographical and climatic conditions of Autumn and Winter affect the military tactics, logistics and strategy of Ukrainian and Russia given their strengths and weaknesses?
Whom does it favor? @jhungary 
( presuming current levels of economic, political and military potential of each side is carried over till the onset of Autumn)
I feel currently both Russia and NATO are like when Jackie Chan is exchanging blows with the powerful villain.. both will make a nonchalant face in front of each other, but grimace from the pain when out of sight of the other guy😂


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## Hassan Al-Somal

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546130764626026496


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## Hassan Al-Somal

Vergennes said:


> Desperation it seems
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545899301628526595





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545452095456813056
Cope!

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## beast89

interviewing Ukrainian AZOV soldier with nazi black sun at 13:48

but keep hearing these guys are minority

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546163284080033793

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546163287045406721


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## Abdul Rehman Majeed

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546163284080033793
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546163287045406721



Russian air defence systems are a piece of junk. Pantsirs, S-300, S-400 have all been destroyed. 5 months into the war, Russians have nowhere to hide.

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546073320902328320

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546073430482714628

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## F-22Raptor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546148904156205057


Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Russian air defence systems are a piece of junk. Pantsirs, S-300, S-400 have all been destroyed. 5 months into the war, Russians have nowhere to hide.



The Russians can’t stop HIMARS. Too fast and accurate. And it’s INS unit prevents jamming. The Ukrainians get in firing position and are gone within a couple minutes at 60mph.

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## Hassan Al-Somal

F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546163284080033793
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546163287045406721




Propaganda and feel good stories. You've been saying that for awhile now, and Ukrainians are losing one territory and cities to the next.

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546130104731967490
Can't understand how some believed Russia was on par with NATO. NATO would only need hours to obliterate those drunkards.



Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Propaganda and feel good stories. You've been saying that for awhile now, and Ukrainians are losing one territory and cities to the next.



Russians control less territory than few months ago,that's not cope but reality.







In blue the territories they have captured after months of throwing all their forces into the donbass and basically turning every small villages and towns into huge wasteland.

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## tower9

ckf said:


> Why would you trust Biden's admin after afghanistan withdraw, and look at how Russian sanctions backfired? Ukraine needs a lot more than weapons to fight the Russians. Ukraine economy is in ruins and needs funds to upkeep cities, gov't admin + funding army personnel's, logistics and weapons. Is America/G7 really prepare to print 60 billion usd to fund Ukraine when inflation already at 8.6% and fed hiking rates to combat inflation. Seems contradictory policies to me.
> 
> Just a bit of reminder for American pumpers, yo all has been all wrong on this war, and Boris even resigned. Fantasy of America foreign policy review on Russia and China alliance couldn't be more wrong. EU can't live without Russian resources and US can't live without Chinese goods, not the reverse. Russia - China Alliance will define the new multipolar world and effectively made both parties stronger on the back of global supply chain. Biden's Ukraine war will effectively end the US global hedgemony, and perhaps in history known as "sleeopy Joe" blows up America. A deep global recession now is unfortunately unavoidable and let see if Euro/Yen can survive. All signs of empire downfall start with its periphery burns.


You see, the thing is that zog propaganda is so strong that most people in the west can’t even think logically anymore even though the actual facts are readily available. The programming is so strong that they can’t even put one and one together. And when things inevitably turn out the opposite of what the media predicts, they just end up confused and frustrated by the state of the world because they can’t understand reality.

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## F-22Raptor

Hassan Al-Somal said:


> Propaganda and feel good stories. You've been saying that for awhile now, and Ukrainians are losing one territory and cities to the next.



Ukraine has destroyed tens of thousands of tons of Russian ammo the last few weeks. And destroyed Russian C2 nodes. 

Meanwhile Russia has less territory than it did in April and captured 0.3% of land in June at huge costs of manpower and equipment.

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546107750278729729

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546082027165851648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546142636163190794

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546142459633274882


----------



## Gomig-21

F-22Raptor said:


> Ukraine has destroyed tens of thousands of tons of Russian ammo the last few weeks. And destroyed Russian C2 nodes.



Take a quick look at this thread, it's pretty short so it won't take more than 3 minutes or so to read it. The reason is that the mathematics make a lot of sense, even when increasing the numbers in favor of the attacking force, it will still require way more than what Ukraine currently has and is doing to destroy the amount of Russian artillery ammo tonnage it has in store.

FYI, my point isn't a pro or con one side or the other, it's just a realistic and objective outlook.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546001099085099009

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546138676123602944

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546131319746428931

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546126991841173505

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546125641258508288

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## Vergennes

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546133389773864965

Reactions: Wow Wow:
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## F-22Raptor

Gomig-21 said:


> Take a quick look at this thread, it's pretty short so it won't take more than 3 minutes or so to read it. The reason is that the mathematics make a lot of sense, even when increasing the numbers in favor of the attacking force, it will still require way more than what Ukraine currently has and is doing to destroy the amount of Russian artillery ammo tonnage it has in store.
> 
> FYI, my point isn't a pro or con one side or the other, it's just a realistic and objective outlook.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546001099085099009



Armchair Warlord is a proven clown, and has been discredited multiple times in the past. This is the same guy that said Russian rocket systems were superior to HIMARs (there not). He's one of the last people you should be referencing.

You need to read this thread to understand the effect of HIMARs. No one is disputing it will take time, they have a long list of targets. But Russia can't stop HIMARS:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544495879884886017

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## ckf

tower9 said:


> You see, the thing is that zog propaganda is so strong that most people in the west can’t even think logically anymore even though the actual facts are readily available. The programming is so strong that they can’t even put one and one together. And when things inevitably turn out the opposite of what the media predicts, they just end up confused and frustrated by the state of the world because they can’t understand reality.


Propaganda is an external enemy of the state, deeper problem is internal corruption in US defense industry and collusion of political hierachy in the defense department. CIA, pentagon, and defense industry is becoming so bureaucratic/nepotistic cesspool, US no longer has competent decision making capabilities. Any data need interpretation and if you have incompetent people at the top, the whole institution fails. Look at the failure of F35 fighter programs/scraping of US littoral combat ships, trillions wasted without any tangible benefits. Biden's admin can't even get accurate assessment of ground situation in Afghanistan. Whoever proposed economic sanctions against Russia military might in Ukraine is just idiotic, and the military assessment of the ground situation in Ukraine is not getting better. Even with all the big data, and up to date intelligence, US foreign policies continue to double down on failures in Ukraine because of Biden's political agenda, and the corrupt institutions that are enabling it.

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## The SC

American newspaper: The Russians will not be defeated in Ukraine, and the escalation of the situation by Washington is a "stupid idea".

The *American Thinker* revealed that the United States and its allies decided to risk ignoring Russia's interests regarding Ukraine's membership in NATO and provoking the crisis in Ukraine.
@khalediskef

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## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546191632835420166

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546192040869986304

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546191252198129665

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546190693034561536

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## Gomig-21

F-22Raptor said:


> Armchair Warlord is a proven clown, and has been discredited multiple times in the past. This is the same guy that said Russian rocket systems were superior to HIMARs (there not). He's one of the last people you should be referencing.
> 
> You need to read this thread to understand the effect of HIMARs. No one is disputing it will take time, they have a long list of targets. But Russia can't stop HIMARS:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544495879884886017



All that you just said is besides the point that I was trying to show you in reply to your original point. Whether he's been discredited or is a clown or whatever, and neither was the point to discredit the HIMARS, only the mathematics of what he listed make a lot of sense. 

You said no one is denying it will take time, it appears to be almost an impossibility to destroy all ammo depots was the point.

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## Soldier35

The Ukrainian army began to create motorcycle ATGM crew units. Soldiers use the Metis 9K115 ATGM developed in 1978 with a range of one kilometer and move on Dnepr motorcycles







The moment of a Russian missile strike at a temporary deployment point for Ukrainian soldiers and foreign mercenaries in the city of Chasov Yar in Ukraine was caught on video. During the analysis of the rubble, the dead in military uniform were found.


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## Hack-Hook

Abdul Rehman Majeed said:


> Russian air defence systems are a piece of junk. Pantsirs, S-300, S-400 have all been destroyed. 5 months into the war, Russians have nowhere to hide.


very much like to see patriot protect itself against a barrage of artillery rockets



F-22Raptor said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546148904156205057
> 
> 
> The Russians can’t stop HIMARS. Too fast and accurate. And it’s INS unit prevents jamming. The Ukrainians get in firing position and are gone within a couple minutes at 60mph.


only if they invested in strike uavs


----------



## The SC

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1546174545056468992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545879428642836483

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545847092622548997

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545651614253555712


----------



## tower9

ckf said:


> Propaganda is an external enemy of the state, deeper problem is internal corruption in US defense industry and collusion of political hierachy in the defense department. CIA, pentagon, and defense industry is becoming so bureaucratic/nepotistic cesspool, US no longer has competent decision making capabilities. Any data need interpretation and if you have incompetent people at the top, the whole institution fails. Look at the failure of F35 fighter programs/scraping of US littoral combat ships, trillions wasted without any tangible benefits. Biden's admin can't even get accurate assessment of ground situation in Afghanistan. Whoever proposed economic sanctions against Russia military might in Ukraine is just idiotic, and the military assessment of the ground situation in Ukraine is not getting better. Even with all the big data, and up to date intelligence, US foreign policies continue to double down on failures in Ukraine because of Biden's political agenda, and the corrupt institutions that are enabling it.



The US government is rotten to the core. That's why everything costs 5X over budget and takes 10X longer than planned if ever accomplished at all. The people working in the government and the contractors are making big money.


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## waz

New thread;






Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2


New thread created as a result of so many tweets, links that now corrupt the download.



defence.pk





This will be locked due to loading problems.


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